Karma Cup, Trichome Science and Terpene Modulation

0:06SpeakerAll right. Welcome to Hash Church, everyone, Episode 7. And I'm here at Vapor Central in Toronto for a live session. I actually just got here yesterday for the Karma Cup. I'm going to be telling you guys a little bit about that. Hopefully we'll see Matt the Great Gardener down here in a little bit. And hopefully we'll get to puff many bowls. He'll tell us about his contest that he entered yesterday at the Karma Cup.

0:30SpeakerAnd for myself, I'm here just for a couple hours today, tops. And I am flying down to Jamaica for the Green Gold or the Gold Rush Conference. I'm not sure exactly what it's called. But I figured I would do a little hash church here before to get things started. Let's see if we turn that down. Still hasn't gone live. Let's see what we got if we restart it.

0:56SpeakerStarting soon. Well, it shows we're live. So hopefully that will start soon.

1:05SpeakerJust having a little technical difficulty as I often do. There might be a little bit of a delay. Not exactly sure, but it shows that we're broadcasting. So that's good enough for me. It does show that we only have six viewers, which is strange. I'll send the link out to Horatio and to Johnny B and get this party started. There we go. And there's a link for John.

1:38SpeakerI'll send a link to D420K. And we'll send a link to Gustavo Norimberg, who wants to come in and chat with us today. And of course, we'll send a link to Horatio Delbert, because he's got some interesting things to tell us today in regards to his sifting that he's been doing. He's been dry sifting. The limonene man has been dry sifting, so that's exciting. We'll have a little bit of that.

2:08SpeakerI can see you guys talking in chat. Yes, happy Sunday. Bubble Man, great to see you. Kratomo, Bubble Man in the building. Token Dave. There I am, guys. And there I am, and there I am. So, let's start this party off, shall we? Get the D-nail going here. Got my mothership D-nail collab. Gonna have to clean it up before I fly to Jamaica today. There might be a little bit of a delay.

2:33SpeakerHey, you got a little bit of a... Fix your mic, Johnny. That's all I can say. Fix your mic. For me, it does show that we only have... You're picking up my voice and it's... I'll mute you until you get it fixed. Because I do want to hear from you. What you've got to learn, John, is that you either need to get some earphones because you don't know how to operate a computer with speakers and a microphone.

2:55SpeakerIf your microphone and your speakers are too close and you have them turned up too high, it creates a loop and it feeds back. I tell you this every week at Hash Church, maybe one week. You will figure it out, my friend, because it is a tough one. I want to hear you talk, but I can't listen to myself delayed, recorded. What I might do, what you might do, is turn off the YouTube chat, mute it, and that might help you out.

3:21SpeakerBut I really don't want to have to troubleshoot with you each time we do Hash Church. I'd love for you to get it all sorted out before we get in here. So, time for a bowl. Welcome. Brian, Tattoo Guy, and Reverend, the See the Red One, Sai Khan, BPK Off, Dick Das Mad. Welcome everyone. Thanks for showing up. It's amazing that we're pulling Hash Church off today because I literally just woke up and I'm flying to Jamaica in a couple hours.

3:54SpeakerSo I wasn't sure I was going to be able to do it, but here I am. And here's the first poll. I see you got your treating yourself ruler, John. Very nice, very nice. It looks like it's already been used today.

4:08SpeakerAlways.

4:11SpeakerThere, now I hear you perfect.

4:15SpeakerThat's great. How are you doing today?

4:22SpeakerJohn? I'm always very well. I'm enjoying my day today. Hey, what's up, Al? What's going on, bro? You, in Hash Church, step over this.

4:40SpeakerPerfect. And then sit close, because we're on Hash Church. They've got the tunes cranked a little bit, so I can't hear very well. John's very quiet right now. Am I very quiet? Well, you're a little bit better now. Every week, John. John, Elliot, Elliot, John. John? Good morning. He helped me get my license. He's one of my partners. I see him all over your videos and shit.

5:04SpeakerYeah, yeah, of course. Of course you see him all over the videos. So we got our chat happening here. Good morning, Daniel Fane. Coming from low bandwidth for sure. Yeah, I'm feeling that. I'm feeling that as well, dude. Maybe we can somehow sort that out.

5:23SpeakerLow bandwidth.

5:26SpeakerLet's let Jesse Smiles in. So a nice slow hash church. Starting slow. I'd love to have that music turned off. Oh my goodness.

5:39SpeakerI'd really love to have it turned off. So this is the YouTube aspect of the chat. It's a little bit delayed. Yeah, I'm using a terrible internet connection, guys. I'm sorry. This sucks. Sorry. I don't know if I can hear you.

6:02SpeakerWell, the best thing about today is, guys, is we're smoking hash.

6:10SpeakerAs always, I have a great tune in the background. I'm diving right in here, guys, and this is going to be some of the resin that MLP, that Mark gets me.

6:34SpeakerWhat's that, Johnny B? A little happiness right there. Very nice. I'm going to load up Elliot a little happiness right now. Some dry sift. Here you go, sir. Dry sift? Well, that's too bad. Wow, I just pulled dry sift all over my screen, actually. That's okay, as long as it's on your screen. So we're having a bad internet connection apparently today for Hash Church. I guess Vapor Central doesn't have the...

7:06SpeakerWell, hopefully it records it okay. They do live.

7:11SpeakerWhat's that? They do live with Pot TV, Vapor Central, all the time. Live feed. Yeah, well, you know, I just showed up with my computer and got on the internet. One didn't work. The other one did work. So, you know what? We'll do it as long as it works. I'm here at Vapor Central, so it's cool. I'll give you guys a little Vapor Central show here. How is Vapor Central?

7:36SpeakerOh, you're in the proper spot.

7:40SpeakerThere's no morning puffers.

7:44SpeakerNo, they opened ten minutes ago and there are about three morning puffers.

7:50SpeakerMorning puffers are us.

7:55SpeakerBest thing about long is you can use your chin to hold it. Of course I'm hitting dry sift. Oh, I recorded John this whole time because I had it on time. The only thing that's recorded is John. Oh my God. I'm going to show Vapor Central one more time so people can actually see my camera. Just realized that. So there's the boys at Vapor Central and the girls.

8:20SpeakerAnd yeah, it's a pretty sweet little spot if you're in Toronto, 667 Yonge Street. Come on down if you're in Toronto right now. Come on down to Vapor Central, 667 Yonge Street. I will personally puff you down. Okay, I'm on my way. Just the plane's going to take four hours. Nice. I'll see you in Amsterdam, Johnny B. I know you will. I can't wait to get there.

8:49SpeakerI'll be seeing you in Amsterdam. I'm going to be seeing a lot of you guys in it. Karma Cup was good. It was fun, but it was too smoky. That was my one. I couldn't. It was. The Karma Cup was too smoky for you?

9:06SpeakerYeah, it was. It was just one big dense cloud. There was very little oxygen. There wasn't enough oxygen in the air for everyone to breathe. And he only smoked pot, so that's going to be hard. Smoking all that weed. Well, that's just it. It was a lot of weed and a lot of paper and a lot of glue in the air, I'll tell you that much. Want another little one?

9:26SpeakerA wakey-bakey one? With the sweet skunk?

9:32SpeakerYeah.

9:38SpeakerWonderful. I also have a little bit of Matt the Great Gardener's CBD Rene. Oh, you're lucky. That is amazing. Top quality food. Doesn't move. Of course it doesn't move. No. What is it? Exactly. Renee CBD. It's so good. Welcome, Darren. Good job, Mark. How you doing, bud? Welcome to Hash Church. It was good. It was fun, but it was too smoky. That was my one. I couldn't.

10:14SpeakerIt was. Darren, otherwise it's going to have my voice on delay coming through the chat, so just mute that. Yeah, it was Big Ben's cloud. I'll mute him until he does. Every time I got to do this, the troubleshooting with the mics. They're driving me crazy.

10:39SpeakerAll right. D's in the house, Johnny B's in the house, and I did send the link out a few more times. I got to really make sure I watch the links. So basically, let's see what we got here. Over here. In church, I gotta watch here for the dabs, or for the dabs, for the dab heads! And then I gotta watch here for when I get messages from people saying, please let me in.

11:02SpeakerI'll let you in! There you go. It's always hit and miss, you never know. You just gotta let... Yeah, I have no idea why. We got 118 people in the room right now though, so that's pretty darn cool. And yeah, once again, we're just chilling at Vapor Central. You can see I got Bong Man right behind me here. There's Bong Man. Seeing that dude at the Champs a couple years in a row walking around in his big Bong Man costume.

11:33SpeakerKind of weird. We're just waiting for Horatio to come into the room. And Horatio made some dry sift this year, guys. How cool is that? This week, I should say. Actually, he called me on Friday and goes, do you have any screens in your car? I'm like, I'm on Pod TV, it's 5.30, and I don't.

12:05SpeakerWhy'd you meet me down?

12:13SpeakerHere for when I get messages. I've been told to mute everything. Everything's muted, so. I'll let you in. I'm just muting. There you go. Muting.

13:08SpeakerYeah, Mark's muted.

13:16SpeakerWe hear nothing. There we go. I didn't realize I was muted. Thank you, Johnny B. That's why I was wondering why when I said welcome Kenna and welcome John, they both didn't say hello. I know, because Darren muted everybody. Ah, Darren. I just wanted him to make his own YouTube. See what you did there? They opened up the YouTube chat. And then they open up the Google Chat.

13:39SpeakerNow, the YouTube Chat is delayed and will run audio through your speakers that will pick up on your mic in your Google Chat. And so whenever I hear that, I will mute people. But otherwise, if I don't hear that, we're good to go. Why does it keep telling me it wants to upgrade?

13:59SpeakerAll right. It's been clicking on mine like 100 times from Tuesday. It almost seems like it's a glitch. Anyway. So, tomorrow I'm off to Jamaica for the Gold Rush Conference. We should stop doing that. So yes, Gold Rush Conference tomorrow in Jamaica with Tony Verzura. So, that's exciting. I'm going to head up there. I got a couple of banners made for the CRD. I'll try to do a little bit of video and share some of that with you guys.

14:31SpeakerAnd I'm basically splitting out of Jamaica a couple of days later to come back to Toronto. It's been a couple of days here. I'm not sure which days. Maybe it'll be a Puff Wednesday or something like that. And then meet Johnny B in Amsterdam a couple of days later. So lots going on. It'll be a Puff. Yeah, we'll be puffing. John, can you confirm that you can hear me with the headphones on?

14:59SpeakerOkay, he's not... Hannah, can you confirm that you can hear me?

15:10SpeakerYeah, I can hear you. Just give a thumbs up. I can hear you. Okay, great. Great, awesome. Both of them can hear me. You guys had not acknowledged me since I've been saying hi to you since you walked in the room, so I couldn't tell if you could hear me or not. Welcome to Hashtag Blackout. Ah, yes. It's not ideal. I must have blown one of my speakers because now my laptop is...

15:31SpeakerI can barely hear anything anyone says, but that's okay. I'm only going to be here for a short time today, probably another 40 minutes. Hopefully Horatio makes it in on time. Maybe I'll just let him know, be a message that we'll be done soon. You can send it, Robert Takata. Send that off if you like, no problem. Sending out links left, right, and center. Horatio, I'm done in 40 minutes.

16:02SpeakerAll right, Robert. There we go. Robert Takata. Yeah, it's a quick church today, guys. It's last minute. I didn't really have time. I literally have my bags spread out around Toronto right now. I've got to go get my suitcases before I fly to Jamaica. And I have zero of my flight information for this flight. So I only know what time I land in Kingston, if you can imagine.

16:29SpeakerCaleb. No. Did it? Yeah. I'm trying to phone them, and they don't open. And I called my Jamaican friend. He's like, oh, yeah, I'm on. I'm going to open like at 1 or 2. I'm like, 1 or 2? That's like, well, no, but I'll have to definitely be at the airport by then. So it's all good. Stoked on this. So if you guys that are here in Hash Church have something you want to say, if you just came in to sit and hang out, that's cool, too.

16:57SpeakerBut if you got something you want to say or you have a story you want to share, You guys are more than welcome to. That's what Hash Church is all about. Can you guys hear me? Yes. Cool.

17:12SpeakerI mainly had some questions to start with.

17:17SpeakerGo ahead. Mostly over terpenes. Well, shoot, Tony's not here right now, the terpene man, but I know a little bit about terpenes. Okay. My big thing is, like, I recently heard about this. It's kind of a new fad, right? It's new. They're trying to learn more about them. I mean, what are the effects of them compared to CBDs? Well, terpenes modulate the effect of cannabinoids. So when you say something is, like, a high CBD strain, it's almost like saying, like, Or when you call a strain a CBD strain, it's almost like telling the world that you are absolutely marketing your cannabis and you really don't have a clue what you're talking about because there's almost 100 cannabinoids present and then there are cannabinoid modulating terpenes that are present also in the potential hundreds.

18:06SpeakerAnd then the ratios of those terpenes, it is all so complex and kind of beyond what my mind can even fathom that All I know is this. If you extract pure cannabinoids like CBD, CBN, CBG, THC, and you take those in a pure form, and then you acquire pure terpenes that you then modulate with, you know, take pure THC, it's quite boring, fairly heavy and strong, narcotic-y, You modulate it with a single terpene, like D-limonene, and you can create a different effect.

18:37SpeakerAnd if you change the terpene, you can change the effect again. So that's a very powerful, in my opinion, it's what most people just have no clue about. My mentor has been talking about it for 10 plus years, and therefore I've been lucky enough to know about it. But yeah, we'll see the science focus on terpene modulation in the next couple of years, I would suspect. Because of how important it is with, if they want to produce nutraceutical and pharmaceutical products, it'll be done through phytoinhalation devices that modulate the cannabinoid profile in the hit.

19:12SpeakerSo you can literally, it won't matter what kind of herb you have, as long as you have all the things that you need, you know, if you have like half of the things are present in this strain and half of the things are present in that strain and a few other things are present in this strain. You can put all three of them in there, modulate it, and inhale exactly the ratio that you want.

19:28SpeakerThat's what I imagine one day seeing, you know, not reading the perfect profiles because the science is so beyond that. We could actually just modulate and intake the cannabinoids that the plant produces through our own, you know, through our own knowledge of, through Act Now, like Tony's program, and learning which cannabinoids, which terpenes, which strains help The different people for the different elements that they have. For example, I had a guy recently say, laughing about how there's no way that THC can cover or mask pain.

20:05SpeakerAnd I said, well, no, of course it can. John uses it for that very thing to reduce his pain. And the guy's like, well, for me, it just increases pain. And I'm like, well, that's OK, because you're different than John. But please don't think that what happens to you happens to everyone in the world. So actual studies are being done over terpenes and terpenoids right now with the effects of CBDs, or is this more of a case-by-case experiential thing?

20:37SpeakerI'm sure they're being done in labs around the world. I couldn't pretend which ones. I would guess Spain, Israel, Holland, maybe Uruguay and Canada just because they're opening up on a federal level. Gotcha. Welcome, Dan. Hey.

20:57SpeakerWelcome, welcome, and welcome Medtainer. I guess John split and came back as Medtainer. Hello, Johnny B. Your camera's still on on your other computer.

21:11Speaker147 people have joined us now. It is a little bit early. I do apologize. Past Church is going to be quick today, though, so you guys that are in are the lucky ones because we won't be able to stay broadcasting for too long because I've got to go catch a flight, organize all my shit, clean this bong that I'm currently getting very dirty. Because, well, you can't fly with a dirty bong.

21:35SpeakerI mean, you can, but it's not really ideal.

21:40SpeakerGod, does this smell good, though. It smells good. It sounds really good, though. The thing with the terpenes, like, I found it really amazing when a friend of mine was telling me that, like, there are beautiful effects, because from an organic chemistry perspective, I mean, I know they're naturally occurring and everything, but I mainly know them as solvents. Like, Rachel, you're using delimiting as a solvent. That makes sense to me.

22:02SpeakerYes. But most of them I know of also usually are aromatic hydrocarbons. Yes. Which tend to be something you don't want to ingest. I guess cannabis is a little different and that's what we don't really understand about maybe because there's those cannabinoids. You have these terpenes, you have these solvents present in the plant, you have nauseous wax contaminants that are in the plant. But as we learned last week in Hash Church and from Jim Frayer's quote on the Adam Dunn show, that the polar components of the plant contain nucleation points as well as expectorant points, and that helps us process those compounds in the plant.

22:46SpeakerAnd that's why you don't want to use certain solvents that leaves them behind. You need those nucleation points and those expectorant points unless you want this gummy, waxy substance You know, gathering on your avioles in your lungs, which that's when you actually, that's a health ramification for that. That's the sort of, eventually you get emphysema, but it's where you hear a lot of these BHO guys with this kind of coffee, drippy, sort of like they're always like clearing their throats.

23:17SpeakerIt's because they're using nonpolar solvent. What's that? So you, excuse me, you think that's from using a non-polar solvent like butane? Well, it is 100%. A non-polar solvent will not pull out solar components, polar components, and it will not pull out semi-polar components. Okay. That also brings me into something else I wanted to ask about. Do you guys, do you guys do any sort of like acid-based things when you're making ash?

23:43SpeakerYou know what, you're cutting out on me and they have the music. Every time I ask them to turn the music down, I think they turn it up. I wouldn't have done Hash Church here had I known, I have to admit. Yeah, I apologize. It's like super sappy, like girly music too, but whatever.

24:02SpeakerIf you want to repeat that question, I might be here. When you're making hash, have you guys ever gone into using more of like an acid-base extraction? Minimizing the pH to come out? Like changing the pH of the water? Yeah, or your solvent or whatever you're using. I personally haven't. I had a friend who was doing it in Spain and producing a really strange looking hash that almost looked like a rock crystal.

24:28SpeakerIt was interesting. For me, my roots are in the mechanical separation. Simple, simple. I mean, look at a guy like Horatio. He's going to come in here today. He spent thousands of dollars to use D-Limonene, and the reason he's having the problem that he is is because he's going up against everyone, telling them they need to stop what they're doing to make money and to buy his product.

24:51SpeakerBut that's why it doesn't work because his product is way superior to a hydrocarbon BHO that hasn't been cleaned or properly purged or that had

25:05SpeakerHowever, with that being said, here he is today now making dry sets. He's bringing himself back. And it's why I've had the success I've had is because I show people how to make what I'm making. That's the key. You can't show them something that's impossible for them to make. And that's why VHO is so popular, that people can just go buy a can and a tube, blast right there in their backyard or in their bloody, God forbid, bathroom or I'm not too high up on the chemical sort of extractions and the real sort of science behind taking the resin to those next levels, like removing the components and all of that.

25:45SpeakerI'm really, really happy in my rooted place of mechanical separation, of dry sift that looks like it's in powder form, but doesn't move. I mean, As nice as any oil or extraction is that anyone's ever shown me in my life, Full Melt 99% Dry Sift Heads always outshines it. Interesting. Yeah, well, how could it not, right? Because you're not fucking around with it. Once you start doing extractions that are like chemical extractions and you're leaving footprints behind.

26:23SpeakerYou start getting specificity. And you're fallible, so you'll leave fallible footprints behind. Unless you're really like an exceptional scientist with access to exceptional equipment, you're going to leave footprints behind. And I like personally to know that when I'm smoking my hash, there's very, very little footprint. And I'll give you an example. Water extraction. What I think on water extraction is that water-soluble terpenes are removed. I don't know if they're coming simply out of the plant matter.

26:53SpeakerNow, Jim Frayer saying that the wax membranes, if intact, will hold all of the terpenes inside the head. Now, I have a feeling that if the stalk breaks at the base, that that thin member, that is a much more accessible point for terpenes to escape and for water to absorb. And I believe the water is being colored by terpenes that are being produced in the glandular trichome.

27:20SpeakerFrom the science that I know, that's where terpenes are produced. However, Jim Fair himself said last week on the Adam Dunn Show that those heads cannot be breached, that the wax protects them, and the water cannot gain access to inside the head. So we'll have to do a little bit more science there and see when the head breaks off the stalk. That tiny little layer where the head and the stock fit together, is that a thinner layer of wax?

27:47SpeakerDoes that release terpenes? I personally believe that it does. Jim believes that it doesn't. Either way, we'll find out in the future in this beautiful world of cannabis exploration. I'm going to weigh in on that, I think. What's that, Johnny B.? Well, when I make hash, of course, now that's all I'm doing now, and what I prefer always is dry sift over making bubble hash, even though I love my bubble hash.

28:12SpeakerBut what you're talking about and why I was bottling the water was because of the flavor and the smell that I was getting out of the water. So, of course, we're making kush water, and of course, Mike... Who was suffering from his cancer. He was actually drinking this water and just seeing if it made any beneficials or not like that. Hopefully I'll talk to him more about it.

28:38SpeakerBut he stopped drinking it. He just says it wasn't doing anything in a sense. But I mean it definitely, you could taste the turps. It was enlightening. It was like a wicked Kool-Aid. So I mean it has to be there. It has to be in that water because the water tastes like... It's got to be. Welcome Horatio. Maybe Horatio could weigh in on that. Yeah, we were just talking about, you know, Jim Frayer saying on the show there, the Adam Dunn show, how the water was unable to breach the wax membrane and therefore there was no solvent process being done with the water, kind of defending nicotine in a sense.

29:16SpeakerMy sort of argument is that I believe where the stock and the head breach, that right there is where terpenes can escape and like John was just confirming, his water Taste so good, and the plant matter, I don't know if it holds those terpenes. Everything that I know scientifically has said that those terpenes are produced through organelles and vacuoles, plastids and phenols inside the trichome head. So I personally believe those terpenes that we're getting in our water afterwards are from the heads, but Jim's saying that the heads can't be breached.

29:52SpeakerIt's interesting. What are your thoughts on that, Horatio?

29:57SpeakerIt's arguable, right where the disc. At the disc where it all transfers, whether or not that's sealed, especially in a fresh frozen process where there wasn't any aging where that disc could naturally seal and then become breakable, I'm going to have to go ahead and say yeah. I mean the hydrosols in bubble hash water are through the roof. There's no way that's all just permeating through a wax membrane.

30:23SpeakerI would definitely say that if the argument about it being closed, it has more to do with the drying and aging process where it actually seals up and cuts itself off over time. But wet and fresh... That disc is wide open because as John's 99 day grow says, those things are still swelling, they're still getting fed even way after the point of what we think the plant would be dead.

30:48SpeakerSo that disc is definitely the last probably thing that's active in the plant when it gives its last breath of life. So yeah, fresh washes, I can totally see that disc not being sealed over forever. And I think why John and I and maybe yourself can see this, and Jim maybe not, I'm not sure about Jim's background, but maybe he's not mechanically sifting. I think once you start doing the quiver where you're doing water extraction and you're doing dry sifting, you really start to learn the differences in between the two.

31:17SpeakerJohn was just saying his dry sift tastes so good, the water has such a strong taste. You know, that flavor's not just coming from the plant matter. That flavor's coming from the glandular trichome heads. And when you make bubble hash properly, what you get is many, many, many heads breaking right at that little disc. It's where they're meant to break.

31:42SpeakerThe dry sifting's a little bit different. You get... Sometimes in dry sifting you'll get breaks in different places and I'll see that I'll get my heads but I'll really have to work it to get that last little bit of stock that's sometimes attached. So that's what I noticed in this batch is these stalks that were dragging these little sperm things no matter which way you carted them over and over.

32:07SpeakerI'm like, are those all just long snaky hairs? And I'm like, no, they're weird, they're clear. I think this is, I'm just going to keep rolling and rolling. And then yeah, they would all start to kind of get in line and left to right you would see all these snaky little trails. So that's kind of definitely why it's angry. Do you have cold access? Cold, cold? I didn't make it super cold.

32:32SpeakerI'm in the basement against the same point, and I have the door like three feet away, so it's just, I crack it on like 20 minute intervals to keep it about, I don't know, probably 12 C. Right. I mean, on my last sift, I did the two plants of the MLPR, I have a video we have on I did one where it was about 65 degrees, and then the other one I did where I put in my AC unit, I lowered my temperatures down to like 55, 10 degrees, and man, I'll tell you, it was just so much easier to work with, 100%.

33:06SpeakerAnd interesting enough, what we really found with John's two strains, and this is something that will be of value to Hash Church right here. John got about 40 plus grams from each plant. They were grown right next to each other, Pheno 4 and Pheno 1, My Little Pony. And so he sifted them both. He thought he had gotten 4.5 and 4.9, but when I actually weighed them, it was about 4.1 and 4.0, the two different piles.

33:32SpeakerWhat I did was I cleaned the hash, and I separated it out into three piles, contaminant, a second grade, which Matt actually just won with the second grade, second prize at the Parma Cup. We'll talk a little bit about that in a bit. And then first grade, which is, you know, obviously the one that is really what I consider the best and which is the real medicine in all of this.

33:54SpeakerSo what we got, what John got, was he got 1.7 grams out of 4 grams of Pure Heads. He got one gram of not-so-pure heads, and then he got about 1.3 grams of contaminants. So a pretty good ratio on that. However, on the other jar, phenol 4, I believe it was. Phenol 1. Okay, phenol 1, then, we got the lower amount. The heads, the nice, nice heads, we only got 0.7 grams, and they were nowhere as near as nice as the 1.7 grams we got off the other plant.

34:29SpeakerSo it really goes to show you that because people aren't Thank you so much for joining us today.

34:58SpeakerYou know, plants can produce different amounts of heady resin. And that, you know, the amount of variables that are present there, I couldn't even imagine. People, even when they run whole crops, they run it as a whole, so they get a generalization. But if you took your whole crop and you ran the plants one by one and you did the math, I think people would be surprised at which ones had the most resin.

35:21SpeakerAnd I think when we get out of this prohibition-based model of fucking thinking, we will all... Really open up the doors to our understanding how we grow and how we extract and how we use this plant.

35:35SpeakerYeah, I mean, the access to research would be a lot easier, too. I mean, to actually research stuff. What was really interesting is out of these two plants is the phenol one is the one everybody would pick for yield because it looked like a bigger plant. But in reality, I always said the phenol four is the one that didn't mean the best for me. Out of like there was about 15 different phenols in the beginning.

35:57SpeakerAnd those were the two that I kept for the end. And the phenol one was because of the size of the plant. In reality, that plant is giving me resin. So I'm going to run the phenol one and the phenol four three more times over the next year, do the same thing over and over just to You know, it's kind of my own research to take a look and it'll be really interesting.

36:17SpeakerWell, to confirm whether it's genetic or whether it's your variables, right? You might have literally been feeding one plant more than the other. There's so many variables that you have to start paying attention to to do these sort of little experiments. And I think it's a great, great idea and that's why I mentioned it the other day. Don't just take this as the word of God. You need to do that two or three more times.

36:37SpeakerBefore you can sort of start to see an actual pattern emerge and whether or not one plant is truly producing more resin than the other, when we start breeding like that, because right now, John just said it, people look at a plant, maybe four plants, and they're like, that one's real resiny, but look at this one, it's beefy. Let's grow this one. Probation-based model of thinking. How much can I get, and how fast can I get it?

36:59SpeakerSuper bummer. But there you go. So I mean... I think that's just, there's another future of growing there is actually crushing all plants and taking a look at the resin and the yield and not looking at the size is actually looking at the true medicine. Like Mark always says, the message that we're actually after and not the messenger. Who cares how big the messenger is? The message is what we're truly after.

37:21SpeakerThat's it. Well, we need to start taking an actual scientific approach to it, which some of us actually are. I know Mark is and And John is. But start gathering actual data and doing the electron microscopy so we know when the disk detaches and all of that. So we have the actual science. Well, this is what we're trying to do. We need to get these companies lined up.

37:50SpeakerWe need to get these licenses procured. We need to get... The investors lined up so that things can start happening like this and I don't think a lot of people have been, lately I've really been going through this model of why I see good friends, good people, people that are activists attacking people for trying to get this to the next level. If you want to operate and you want to get Something done, for example, when we wanted to get hemp growing, we didn't do it illegally.

38:19SpeakerWe knew if we wanted to get hemp growing on a massive scale to help people, we needed to do it within the model that already existed, which was the agricultural model and the legal model. And I feel the same way about cannabis. If we want to get it out to everyone, we have to take it out of the illegal and put it into the legal. And what I'm noticing is people that are secure in their lifestyles of the illegal prohibition model, i.e.

38:41Speakerthey grow weed and sell it for profit, They're not really stoked on that. And so they're like, oh, corporate douchebag this and corporate douchebag that. And all those guys want to do is own it. And it's like, no, man. All they want to do is get it out to more than seven people. If you can only grow weed for seven people, that's not enough. And you're only growing weed.

39:01SpeakerWe need hash and lots of it, mountains of it. No single person is going to be pulling that off. Boom. Also, along with what Dan was saying, when it comes to approaching it scientifically, do you guys have analytical equipment? To test to see what kind of terpenes and gluconoids and THC you've got running through your body. Well, yes and no. I personally don't, but I have access to labs and I have friends that do.

39:27SpeakerTony has, Dave Watson, Horta Farm. People that I've known for years have access to this. I've seen the gas chromatograph results of many different things. Not so much for what we're talking about in regards to dry sitting and wet washing. But hanging out with Skunk Man for the long enough time, he can look at hash and be like, that's 60% THC, that's 70% THC, that's probably 80% THC.

39:54SpeakerIt's pretty accurate on his guessing. When you actually, he guesses and then you run the thing through a GC. He ran those thousands of tests through GCs over the course of 35 years, so he was in a unique position to actually play around with the plant. I think the rest of us will catch up. I think when we build our lab in Canada and we build our lab in Jamaica, That, you know, lots of that work.

40:16SpeakerThat's exactly the kind of work we want to be doing. We want to learn as much as we can. So many people don't know how to think about this plant outside of the prohibition model. Even though they consider themselves activists, they don't realize that by removing themselves from the model that was in place, that that was the model. That's what the model was. They didn't do something that was unique.

40:39SpeakerThey were poor. All that experience. And that's the model. So we have to get out of that model and get into the next one. Can I pull your screen up, John? Yeah. Okay. I had a longer time testing. Interesting. Is this... And where did you get that tested? This was all tested on HPLC and this was... No, no, the scientist. Just say his name was Hornby and I'll disregard all those papers.

41:16SpeakerIt was tested at Green Cross Society. But not with Hornby. Of course it was. Okay, so Hornby, yeah, okay. I have no love really for Hornby. I don't know if he really knows how to operate those machines. When he was doing tests, he was showing people results of 95 and 96% on their colored butters.

41:35SpeakerIt's unfortunate that Vancouver really doesn't have what I would consider a solid cannabis lab. We do have analytic labs that are non-cannabis based that have solid scientists that you could bring your things to, but the one guy in our community who's really doing it, in my opinion, and I'm not going to talk down on him, is he just does not, in my opinion, represent cannabis. Our community really that well.

42:02SpeakerHow do you set up a lab like this? Paul did a lot of testing over the years. What's that, John? Paul did a lot of testing over the years, and he had different machines. I think in the beginning, all of the stuff he was testing, he was using Health Canada weed to standardize his machine, which was wrong, so a lot of the stuff in the beginning was...

42:21SpeakerSo you stand behind Paul's testing, John? Some of it, and some of it, no. Okay, so how do you decide... Well, once he received a machine from BCIT, right from BCIT, I went there and picked it up, and the standards that were sent and that were being delivered to where I was working at that point is where we were getting it shipped to, which was... Do you trust all the results that came from that machine?

42:45SpeakerPardon me? You trust the results that came from that machine, but nothing prior? What I trust is I trust the cannabinoid profile. I'm not looking at the amounts of THC. No, it's the person running the machine, bro. It's the person running the machine that trusts Hornby to be able to run that machine. Well, he did work for Health Canada and for Cancer Research for quite some time.

43:06SpeakerWell, that says a ton. That says a ton. The guy chain smokes cigarettes. He's a cancer researcher who chain smokes radioactive cigarettes. Personally, I have no love for the guy. I really think that his science is fallible. I think that if you had it tested at two other analytical labs separately... The thing is, like what Mark says, all we have access to is only a few variables here where in other parts of the world now there's tons of testing.

43:35SpeakerHoratio himself knows and we all know we would love to be able to use a lab here in town, 100%. A mass spec and an HPLC, terpenes and cannabinoid profiles. And we can take a look at what's decarboxylated, CBN to CBD, decarboxylating CBD acid all over to CBD. I mean, this is all stuff that is very much needed in today's system, and we don't have access to that.

43:58SpeakerIt is needed. What I'm saying, we don't have. Right? And in reality. I mean, at least I was able to look at my growing and see how I could dial in my stuff by having someone doing some of my testing in the beginning. So it gave me a way of trying to standardize my own medicine because I was trying to keep those same products. What did you do specifically in your pheno choosing when you got those sheets?

44:26SpeakerWhat did you do specifically that helped you in your strains? Did you follow your plans based on those results? What I realized is from testing my growth from week one all the way up until the end, As I realize between day 37 and day 39, I get a THC spike. I saw the heat rise in my room. I saw it on paper so then I could put the variables that when I got a heat spike in my room, it had to do with the amount of THC that was hitting there.

44:53SpeakerSo there are certain things that I saw while growing, while testing. And how were you telling there was a THC spike? You were cutting your plant down early? No, no, no. I never cut it down because THC was starting to develop at that time. CBD didn't start coming in until more of day 49. Sometimes Day 63, I saw more... But how do you know that? Are you cutting the plant down and testing it at Day 49 to see if it's CBN?

45:15SpeakerI'm just trying to understand your science. Are you with me, Horatio, or am I being a dick? No, no, no. I hear what you're saying, Mark. And I can tell you this. I mean, this is back... I did this back in 2008, 2007. But it sounds, honestly, it sounds like you're... Like, I just am trying to understand exactly what you're saying. Like, you're saying that you noticed you had THC spikes and that you had CBD spikes...

45:35SpeakerHow did you notice that without testing? The moment CBD started coming up, I thought, actually, I have to put this paperwork together here, and I could show exactly how it is, and then I did weekly... Well, no, I'm just asking you really simply, how did you know that the plant was spiking THC at a certain point in its life cycle without cutting it and testing it? I was cutting it and testing it.

45:55SpeakerThat's what I have here. That's all I was asking. Thank you, brother.

46:01SpeakerThat's what I was trying to understand exactly. Because I was like, what? You weren't cutting it down? How would you know that there was THC? I was doing a whole room and this was all with me. Here's a question. You know as well as I do from hash making that if you're testing a plant, say you cut a bud off of it, the profile on those gland heads won't be the same as the bud two doors down or one door up.

46:29SpeakerThis is, like I said, this is stuff that I was doing eight years ago, and this is what I had access to at that point. So it was able me to start taking a look at how I was doing things. I can't really hear you, I guess, is the problem. I'm probably going to have to stop Hash Church pretty soon. They got music cranked pretty loud here, and my battery is running low, so I apologize, guys.

46:50SpeakerWe'll get about maybe five more minutes out if you guys want to finish off, and if you have anything to say, Horatio, about anything, or...

47:00SpeakerGive a scope of how the stratosphere of labs work and why I went to so much trouble to get a specific lab. When you get to the highest levels of testing, the biggest trouble is the machine can't be installed. It has to be built in place. So even like Analytical 360 and C-Pill, they have the most sensitive equipment, but unfortunately they had to build it. So you can't even send it somewhere else.

47:28SpeakerSo between the two labs, like they're two locations, the build of the same machine has to be standardized because they're operating at the highest level of excellence. So what everybody has to get a concept of, because really only they'll be able to define how much THC might there be. And they've quite specifically said, conservatively, let's not try to go over 70%. There's still a ton we don't know about the plant.

47:56SpeakerIt can't be 90% THC and still have 10% terpenes and still have 20% unknown. So what you find is they're reading spikes and then they apply a curve. And the curve will say that this spike equals 90% and all the other spikes will equal some curve below it. And every lab has their own gradient curve. So Dr. Hornby's So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

48:45SpeakerYeah, I wouldn't want to base anything on that kind of science and that's why I'm bummed about Vancouver not having like a steep hill, not having this like cannabis based company. It's tough because if I split my sample in half and I go to steep hill and I go to analytical, I'm going to get different results. And it's kind of why you have a limit to how much you can claim your science is actually permanent.

49:22SpeakerAll you can really do is claim that your habit of evaluation is consistent and hope that one day science will miraculously become God. But it's still run by humans and they're still reading curves and all you can do is try to get a consistent pattern out of one machine, out of one lab. You have to test at the same place, but you can't make gross proclamations in no way, shape, or form.

49:46SpeakerI mean, even when it says 0% limonene, that's within a range of 100 parts per million. That's how accurate they're willing to claim today. They could make it more accurate in a year, and it says I directly have 99 PPMs of limonene. But that's the advance of the science, and it will never be I can send something to the East Coast and claim 71%, and it works on the West Coast when I know directly the best machines making the only science we have.

50:15SpeakerThese are one-offs. They're complete one-offs. And all you can do is stick with your lab and try to stick on that machine and keep an eye on how consistent they are with the use of their equipment. But there will never be a declarative science where you can totally claim anything. Well hopefully something gets designed in the near future where we can create redundancies, we can create multiple machines with different groups of people, and we can control the variables enough in a way that we can get a cleaner, clearer picture Um, then what we're currently being, being, uh, assessed, because, man, I'll tell you, from the start, from the first time I ever saw one of Hornby's results, I was just like, man, that's not helping.

50:58SpeakerNo, I know. I got 87%. And what would be really cool is to see the difference of what we have here in the hash that you separated, Mark. And that's what we'd like to know more about is when we have the different grades, and I talked about any one of the different hashes from the 73 and the 90, is there a different nominal profile ratio that Horatio was talking about too?

51:20SpeakerSo, yeah, we need to get this stuff tested. It'd be cool. Hey, Johnny B, are you downstairs on your computer, your home computer? Yes, I'm in my office now. Okay. The camera is a little bit lower quality, so when you're talking and I have your screen open, don't put your hands up because what it does is it makes you blurry and we can't see you. When you were holding your hash up, it was doing that.

51:41SpeakerOkay. It's amazing how much you're moving. You're moving a lot, Yogi. I'm getting ready to go to yoga. You're moving a lot, eh? No, that's good. John's been doing yoga every day for, what, 11 days now? 8-12 today. Day 12. Now, honestly, you guys don't understand how hard what John is doing is. It's like the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Like, harder than, like, training for, like, Tier 1 hockey.

52:08SpeakerLike, literally, Bikram yoga, hot yoga, 12 days in a row for Johnny B, and he looks like 10 years younger. Definitely 10 pounds lighter. Just off your face, bro. I weighed myself. I really don't care. It is definitely hard. It's about concentrating, and...

52:29SpeakerHey, you know what? No matter how injured you are, you can do hot yoga and you start learning about your body and how you can fix it by moving, bending, and breathing. Hey, you know what? I'm going to be doing a video in the hot yoga studio tomorrow and then in a year I'll do another one and we'll see what the difference is and how my postures are and how Dude, it'll be a viral video.

52:52SpeakerThat will be like a viral, like the guy on the crutches who was like, you know, the viral yoga video of the guy on the crutches, big heavyset guy that like... Yeah, yeah. You're already running upstairs, dude. Like, I couldn't believe watching you go up the stairs the other day. I know. Cannabis culture. It just happened. I didn't even realize I was doing it. And I was like, I just run upstairs.

53:11SpeakerLike, I don't do that. But you know what? It's... And at the same time... Like this morning, I'm for the first time smoking an epic amount of hash, and I'm going to go do my yoga here. I'm going to leave here in 30 minutes. I'm just going to see how I did it. I've been getting up in the morning and going to yoga first thing because, of course, that's when I'm in my best condition is first things in the morning.

53:36SpeakerAnd as my day progresses, like Tony was saying, I do about 300 milligrams in the morning, 500 milligrams for lunch, and about 1,700 milligrams for dinner when it comes to smoking hash because as my days progress, my pain gets worse. One thing I'm really realizing is my mornings, I'm not... I'm not consuming as much because I'm not sitting and doing things and working on the computer. I'm actually moving and strengthening my body, which is the most important thing that I should be doing, is getting up in the morning and take caring of the one thing, yourself, and I think everybody should be doing it.

54:07SpeakerI've got a question for John. Last week, you were talking about you were taking amino acids with phyto THC for pain. Yes. Could you elaborate on that a little bit? Yeah, well, I take my amino acids every morning. I take natural GABA with B6, and that slows down pain transmission and helps with absorption. I take tyrosine that helps balance my dopamine, which is, you know, your moods, which is serotonin.

54:35SpeakerDopamine is pain and pleasure. And then I take, I take neophyllalanine, which is also good for chronic pain, 500 milligrams a day. I take phosphatidylserine, which is more to take that The fog out of the brain is more of like a CoQ10. And then I also take a neurotransmitter and see how to ease that. E is good for inflammation, arthritis, and also works as SSIR for selective serotonin reuptake in avatars, you know, like an antidepressant in a sense.

55:07SpeakerSo, I mean, this is all I take because I deal with chronic pain daily, and of course, I have to take converter forms of THC, and what's done that for me is a lot of times I was using the messenger to do that, so now I've got more into using the hash, and of course, with his drops and stuff like that. So that's what I use for my pain control, and yoga is another part of my toolbox, which is awesome.

55:29SpeakerCool. Thanks.

55:34SpeakerThere you go. And if you send me a message on Facebook, that's the easiest way of me getting you the information. The articles that were written that were put up to Treating Yourself magazine has since been taken down, and I have four different articles that all my links are dead to. Thank Marco Arenda for completely erasing that. At least he could have left the magazine up. But I have no way of accessing them, so I do have them on my computer.

55:57SpeakerOkay, that'd be great.

56:02SpeakerThanks. Joe? Yeah. Here we go. I'm just going to start torching my crystal here because I've got to travel soon. They don't like when you travel with dirty glasses. The only thing that happens when we're traveling is spending more time cleaning that bowl every day.

56:27SpeakerIs that one going to be easier to clean than the last one? I don't know. I hope so. I'll let you know in a few minutes.

56:36SpeakerSo just briefly speaking about the science aspect once again, the stuff that Mark is doing in Jamaica and some others of us are doing around the world, we're going to be setting up research and development companies that will get the science up to the level that we need it to be. And we're going to start... Understanding and developing and discovering some incredible stuff with this plant. And I just appreciate everything that Mark is doing in that regard.

57:15SpeakerDoing real business. That's the only way that we're going to be able to do the research and development to get the kind of things that the plant can really do. So God bless you, Mark. And we're working throughout the world to do this. So So don't diss us corporate guys for trying to make things work. We're not assholes. We will make some money at it, but we're trying to, for my part, I'm trying to save the world.

57:45SpeakerI'm trying to transform the healthcare system and to break the back of big pharma that is poisoning the world. And bring the healing of the nations back to where it should be as the plant that heals the world. So that's really my motivation. That's what Mark's motivation is. So let's all get together. Let's do the science because it's there and it's going to blow people's minds. So God bless everybody who's working on it right now.

58:18SpeakerThat's why I'm here. You know, I can't...

58:24SpeakerThe thing that draws me to this group is that you guys are really trying to hit this from a scientific approach. Have to. Well, I mean, I'm pro-cannabis. I don't smoke the stuff myself. I can't. It doesn't do well with me. But I see a huge benefit to people just from a disnal background. And you guys are about the first group I've seen actually trying to hit this from a scientific approach.

58:51SpeakerThat's why I'm here.

58:56SpeakerIt's the only way we'll get to real medicine, you know, to understanding what it is. But it is, each plant is different, each patient is different, almost each trichome is different. So that's the level of science that we're going to have to get to, to understand all of the variables and all of the cannabinoids and all of their interactions with the terpenes and Even the chlorophyll, I think, has something to do with the medicinal value of the plant.

59:26SpeakerSo it's an entourage effect that we don't understand at all, but we know it's out there. It's like black matter. We know it's there, but we haven't figured out how to understand it and use it. But it's very, very exciting, and now that we've got real scientists working on it, we're going to make some amazing breakthroughs.

59:54SpeakerWell said, Dan. I enjoyed that. I'm just torching my bowl here.

1:00:02SpeakerSmoke Vapor Central out.

1:00:07SpeakerThis is about 99% THC. I tested it in my own lab. Bioassay a whole lot more. More than any science. If John smokes something and says it's strong, I'll believe it.

1:00:27SpeakerWell, I mean, it doesn't help when there's also labs trying to give you numbers you want to hear. Yeah, I mean, there's that whole corruptible science. Anyone can By the equipment that doesn't give them the analytical ethic to persevere toward something. Testing for the sake of getting 100 bucks per unit and everyone running away with their 99% THC kill. And you look at it and it's all green.

1:01:00SpeakerI'm still having trouble. Like, why? I mean, you've explained about how difficult the equipment is and how sensitive it is and how there's not very many... Specific labs for the cannabis group. Why is it so hard to get tested? Why are the labs not there? Why are the labs for hydrocarbons not there? Nobody else makes their medicine with a can of butane. So there are no labs of developing a science for testing for propane in a oleoresin extract.

1:01:34SpeakerIt doesn't make any sense. Like hexane and those type of chemicals, they're out there, but labs that are specifically hunting for things like pentane to the nth degree, no, that typically wouldn't exist. But I mean also like... They're testing for nine solvents. They were testing for three solvents. And they know there's 30 in a can. So they have a limit of money. They're not exactly getting the same government grants.

1:02:04SpeakerI mean, you forget the whole government grant system that creates that whole industry. Pharmaceutics, they're not getting that money that normally gets infused to create an industry. So upon that legalization, I'm sure when it comes to making the CBD, those like New York where it's just extracts, They won't have as much trouble testing because they've already put certain limits. There's not going to be any but it's just they're going to be testing and they're going to be demanding a proper solvent use.

1:02:33SpeakerI doubt they'll be allowing butane for the stuff they're making for kids. So they'll be testing for normal chemicals and that's kind of why we have our own strange science that has to be created and has to create nationwide labs because they're testing for butane. So, adulterants, testing for adulterants is one thing, but then also, I mean, like, are you able to, like, submit a sample of your action and get a profile of what cannabinoids are in that?

1:03:00SpeakerNot necessarily a percentage, but, I mean, specifically... Again, same, I'm going to speak to those same two labs that, when it comes to the expansion of the terpenes you'll test for, you know, some places will have the same test, mycerine, limonene, linalool, and, you know, the straight ones everyone knows. All right, obviously, the amount of terpenes that could be tested for goes on and on and on, and the test gets deeper and deeper and deeper.

1:03:25SpeakerSo, the analytical team, they seem to have the largest girth of microbial testing, residual testing, THC testing, terpene testing, the cannabinoids going into the CPGs, not just THC and CPG. So, really, the companies that are pushing their own equipment are pushing the same, and... Hopefully, they're able to legislate and set the standards for their states versus just the independent businesses that are pushing the limits.

1:04:01SpeakerThis is so difficult to make it, to gain access to the whole thing.

1:04:17SpeakerMark, are you still there? Yeah, I'm here. I'm just cleaning ports. I got my red hot ports. Getting rid of all the parts. So yeah, I got to gear up. I got to probably close this down in the next five or ten minutes. It's already 1230. In fact, I think I'm going to have to close it down right now. You guys in here are welcome to chill out and chat for a little bit.

1:04:45SpeakerI'm going to stop the broadcast. I want to thank everyone, Kana and Dan and Horatio, Johnny B and John for coming into chat room. Thanks D420K. You showed up. I know we were having technical difficulties, but you were in the YouTube chat. I saw Brian's YouTube chat from D-Nail. I saw Trendy asked Dad. Just want to thank you guys all for coming out and being a part of Hash Church.

1:05:09SpeakerAnd the next time you will see or hear from me, I will be on the beautiful island of Jamaica. Blessed love. Thanks everyone for coming out. Talk next week at Hash Church.