Cannabis and Cancer: A Deep Dive

0:01BubblemanAll right, just like that, we are live, everybody. Welcome, welcome to Hash Church episode 142. I see we got a nice stacked group hanging in the chat room. We got 70s Mama in there holding it down, Funky G, Ron Jones, Aaron Adjoket, and many, many, many more. So we'll, let's get to the invitations, shall we? Let's get to the invitations. Here we go. Boom and a boom.

0:32BubblemanNow let's see what else I got to do here. History. Mr. Janetta. All right. Hope everyone's doing well today. I, of course, am at the end of a six-day giveaway, finishing up with the Wake and Bake episodes here just in my own office. Did one off the deck the other day, which was real nice. Welcome, Etienne. Good morning, sir.

0:56Etienne FontanHow are you?

0:57BubblemanOh, you know, doing well, doing well. I was just talking about the last week of giveaways. Gave away quite a few of these dark crystal glass bottles on my Wake and Bake show and a couple of... A couple of dab mats as well.

1:09Etienne FontanSweet. Thank you for turning me on to that glass cleaner, by the way. Yeah. Shit's good, man.

1:16BubblemanIt works, let me tell you. And you know what? It's crazy because I call it glass cleaner. I use it only on quartz, and I use it on hot quartz, not something I would put on the hot glass, but I guess you can still boil the stuff and dip it into the boiled material, and it cleans glass as well. All right, Johnny B says he's seeing us soon.

1:38BubblemanSend out the links here. How are things going in ATN's world?

1:43Etienne FontanThings are rolling around. There's a lot of things happening in the state capital with the new regulations. So, you know, working on that. We have the National Cannabis Industries Association's national meeting coming up. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday here in Oakland. So we've got a whole bunch of experts from around the world rolling in. We almost hung out with Gen X, Jen Doe last night, but she had to do other things.

2:11Etienne FontanBut she's in town. She's now working for Gavita. So we were just trying to say hey.

2:16BubblemanI saw it. I was kind of hoping that you guys were going to link up with her. She was in Oakland looking for a, hey, welcome, Mark Sheldon, Dr. Mark, and of course, Mr. Skunkman Sam.

2:28Etienne FontanMan. How's it going? Good, Doc. Looks like you're at a festival or something.

2:35SpeakerAlways. Oh, that's actually from a festival I was at two weeks ago. I'm just getting around to posting the pictures now, you know.

2:43BubblemanThat's how it happens.

2:44SpeakerYeah, I got to get what I can when I get cell phone signal, right? Because there's no cell phone signal at the festival, so you have to sort of chime in later. Ah, yes.

2:56BubblemanYes, yes, yes.

2:58SpeakerA lot of fun.

3:01BubblemanWell, it looks like a pretty nice day here today. We've had quite a bit of rain on and off in Vancouver, but it looks like we're going to get a decent shot of weather. I'm pretty excited about that because my boat is finally finished and ready to be taken out for the summer. Why is it finished, you ask? Because boats, you can't even put them away or take them out without dropping Gs.

3:21BubblemanBust out another 1,000. Bust out another 10,000, in fact, depending on what kind of boat you have, but yeah. Boat's all ready. Going to be doing boat videos soon. Maybe I'll even go out and do a church from the boat. Who's to say? I can do as I so please. Church. Boat church. You guys going to join me?

3:39Etienne FontanWhat color is your boat?

3:41BubblemanMy boat is like mostly white, but there's some red in it as well. It's kind of like a red and white competition tow boat, ski boat.

3:51SpeakerWill that make you a naval chaplain?

3:54BubblemanYou know what? I don't think so. I really don't.

3:59Etienne FontanIt doesn't even make you a semen.

4:01BubblemanI started out as a semen many, many years ago. Yeah.

4:08Etienne FontanBut you grew out of it, right?

4:11BubblemanYeah, I grew right out of it. I grew right out of it. And hey, we're live and everyone in the chat room is going off. We've got Banzai Breeder in the room right now. South Africa. What's that, Mark?

4:25SpeakerWe're all semen until we had egg on our face.

4:28BubblemanYeah, we all end up with egg on our face, don't we? That's all good. Ah, yes, the bubble boat, indeed. I think it's time for a little bit of a ripper. What do you guys say? Ready for a little rip? Always. That's what I like to hear. Like literally ready, like you have all your shit turned on and it's hot and you're real ready. Oh, yeah. I'm not there.

4:52Etienne FontanI'm professional grade.

4:55SpeakerYou are. One of your compatriots from Canada was at the Amsterdam Cannabis Liberation event today at the Flavo Park. Oh, nice. Mr. Rick Simpson.

5:10BubblemanOh, okay. Well, I don't really know Rick that well, but he's definitely been a loud voice in the cannabis industry here for the last 15 plus years. Do tell, Sam. How'd that go?

5:25SpeakerI got along very, very good with him, but he is a bit like Jack Harar in that he sort of leans towards conspiracy ideas. Ah. So he was absolutely convinced that Monsanto has been growing GMO cannabis in Uruguay and selling it there.

5:46Etienne FontanYeah. Oh, that's rich.

5:49SpeakerThat's what I call fake news.

5:53Etienne FontanRight.

5:55BubblemanLet me just get this microphone plugged in here, if I may.

5:59Etienne FontanWhy don't we just do what it's called proper and just call it fake? It's not news. It's just fake.

6:05SpeakerWell, it's presented as news in a newsy format. So, yeah, it's fake, but it's fake news. Yeah, it's probably like Monsanto commissioned a study at a university down there, and then it gets blown out of proportion at Oh, they're doing this now. So yeah, whatever. There's a scientist, a lady in Italy who tried to find GMO weed. She knew there was GMO weed. She collected samples worldwide and she could not find one single bit of GMO weed.

6:44SpeakerAll hybrids by definition have been genetically modified. There's a difference between classical breeding and GMO. GMO implies that you're inserting something. I know, yeah, but it's the same, you know, you end up with the same, you end up with a mutated gene, whether you do it by traditional plant breeding. No, classical breeding does not mutate genes. You're wrong. No, no, no, no, no, it does. It alters them.

7:14SpeakerIt alters their frequency, but it doesn't mutate them. Well, yeah, okay. If you find a strain under a certain...

7:30SpeakerYou're invoking what's called an induced response. Certain genes are turned on and certain genes are turned off. These end up coming out with some type of mutant plant, whether you call it a mutation or not. It's a mutant. Dr. All you're doing is turning genes on and off. You're not mutating nothing. Dr. I'm saying that the plant that ends up coming out ends up looking different. That's absolutely.

7:57SpeakerCan you affect a phenotype? Yes. The genotype remains constant, although some genes may be turned on or off. But the genotype does not alter. Only the phenotypic expression is altered. Yeah, and that's going to make the plant different, right? It's going to make it look different. It might have more or less of a particular compound. Yes. Right. It might make it look physically different too, right? Possibly, yes.

8:31SpeakerLike a mutant, right? No, not like a mutant, but similar to how a mutant might look, yes.

8:41BubblemanYou guys are hilarious.

8:42SpeakerIt'd be like me trying to pin you down on chemistry. I ain't going to be able to do it, Mark.

8:50SpeakerHey, just, you know, have a little fun, that's all. No problem. That's exactly how Rick Simpson was. I mean, his mind was made up. Was Rick Simpson chain smoking radioactive tobacco while he was there? Yes, I criticized him and says, listen, how can you be all this for health and all this and then be chowing down tobacco? I can't help it. I've smoked since I was 10 years old.

9:18SpeakerAnd I says, well, why don't you use cannabis to help yourself change?

9:22BubblemanI just think that it's a wild thing to go on a conspiracy thing to tell people that Monsanto is going to be taking over cannabis and mutating it with GMO while smoking radioactive cigarettes.

9:35SpeakerAnd supporting large multinational corporations that are holding cannabis down, right? Thank you very much, right?

9:43Etienne FontanIt's almost like he's acting like a hypocrite or something.

9:46BubblemanListen, the last time I saw him speak, he chain smoked cigarettes. He chain smoked them with another guy who now has since died, I think, of lung cancer. No joke. I swear to God.

9:56SpeakerOne thing I can say about Mr. Simpson is he likes a good bowl of full melt bubble. I mean, that's no doubt about that.

10:06BubblemanYep, no, I've smoked full melt bubble with him. I just feel that I wish I could help him get off the cigarettes, particularly where I saw him speak. I tried as well. When I saw him speak, people who were suffering with cancer came to see him speak. And he smoked cigarettes in their face the entire time. And I left. I was like, this is fucked. This is the most fucked thing.

10:29BubblemanLike, I can't even deal with it. And the guy, I said one thing to the owner of the place and he actually, he's like, this is my place. I'll smoke cigarettes at my monto. I was like, okay. That guy was like dead six months later. Seriously, we need to get in touch. It's okay to call ourselves out when we're wrong. And, you know, smoking radioactive tobacco while promoting the cancer-killing benefits of cannabis, to me, seems like a really, really fucked up thing to do.

10:57BubblemanJust take a break on your addiction while you speak to these people. It's not that big of a deal. You can go smoke your radioactive cigarettes 20 minutes after you're done your talk, but to chain smoke the entire time.

11:07SpeakerYou know how smokers are. Until they quit, they'll swear they're doing it for enjoyment, whereas every study that's ever been done shows that people smoke to stop the pain of withdrawal.

11:24BubblemanYour body comes... Ned's got a perfect example. He says, hey, everyone has a poison of choice, just saying. And I agree, Ned. Everyone does have a poison of choice. But to smoke that poison of choice in front of people who have cancer seems to be a little off. And we're not talking shit behind anyone's back. We're talking shit. We're talking shit and it's recorded. So this is recorded shit.

11:46SpeakerAll right, we'll all talk at the same time. I told Rick point blank, listen. I'm telling you this from compassion. You really need to stop this shit.

11:59BubblemanSugar's not great either, but the neat thing about sugar when you're consuming it is you don't jam it down other people's throats, which is the case with radioactive smoke. It's not safe to breathe in, even second and third hand. I don't want anything to do with it, so got to get rid of it. Yeah, Rick can come on and defend himself, no problem. I'm not talking shit behind Rick's back.

12:21BubblemanThis is a panel, and we talk shit right to your face. You can watch it. You can call us. You can talk to us. We have no problems defending everything that we're saying.

12:30SpeakerI wouldn't talk shit to his face. I'd be too busy making a joke about him.

12:34BubblemanWell, there you go, Sam style. All I'm saying is lose the cigarettes for, oh, you know who, and it was also another one. It was John's doctor there, Dr. Hornby. He was the other one that was just chain smoking cigarettes. I just, I think when it comes to cancer, you know, when we're at the point where people are getting upset with people who are making sugary treats and saying, hey, those are no good, that feeds cancer.

12:58BubblemanWell, then obviously we have to admit that Radioactive tobacco also feeds cancer. We know it for a fact. You don't even have to be that knowledgeable in regards to cigarettes causing cancers. I think it says it all over the pack from the people who are actually selling it to you. So it's not like we're talking about something that is, you know.

13:17SpeakerProbably the worst ones are actually, remember when you was a kid and you'd chew up those little candy cigarettes?

13:25Etienne FontanOh yeah, I totally remember those. Trying to get, make sure you have them.

13:29SpeakerThere were plenty of candies. Right. Yeah, if you get them when they're right out of the package, you could actually blow on it and a little puff of powdered sugar would come out like smoke.

13:41BubblemanWow, I didn't know. I don't remember that. I didn't know John Burfellow smoked cigarettes. I'm glad I didn't know him during that time. Hey, welcome Forrest.

13:53Etienne FontanWelcome Forrest. Oh, can't hear you, Forrest.

13:58SpeakerHe's like, oh, you can't hear the forest in the trees.

14:03Etienne FontanHey, I used to smoke cigarettes. I quit 20 years ago, so it was the hardest thing I ever did.

14:09SpeakerMore power to you. My daughter smoked like 10 or 15 years, and she just Quit smoking about six months ago, and I'm so happy.

14:20BubblemanWell, Peter S. just said he's a former patient of Dr. Todd McCorea, and we lost him to cancer from cigars. It's a scary one. Today, the conversation was going to be cancer today. It started out through cigarettes.

14:35SpeakerIt started out through a sort of strange, Well, first we've got to get everybody to have cancer, then we can talk about it. So if we encourage everybody to smoke cigarettes, we can speed up the process.

14:48Etienne FontanWell, I'm not going to endorse that in any way, shape, or form. You know, I don't want everybody to get cancer, unfortunately. It's down to one and two, so half of us are going to get cancer. So potentially, that's the reality of what we've created in this environment.

15:07SpeakerSome of us have cancer, we don't even know it.

15:11Etienne FontanYeah, that's true. You know, and in fact, every single day, you know, we kill a cancer cell inside of our bodies. You know what I'm saying? That's just the reality of what everybody is going through. Unfortunately, now it looks like half of us.

15:25SpeakerHello, test.

15:27Etienne FontanThere you go, Forrest.

15:28SpeakerThere we go.

15:30Etienne FontanWe got your voice. No physical viewing. Coming in, Basie. I like it.

15:35SpeakerYeah, well, there you go. It's that new microphone. That's right. He's got the Barry Manilow microphone. Oh, yeah. How you been doing, Forrest? I think I'm still having issues. Can you hear me now?

15:48BubblemanWe can hear you. We just can't see you.

15:52SpeakerAll right. Well, hey, maybe that's for the best for your audience there.

15:56BubblemanIt's possible. It's possible.

15:58SpeakerThere we go. All right. There we go. All set up. Good morning.

16:02BubblemanOh, look at that. I see you. I hear you. Everything's gravy. All right. How are things in Forrest's world?

16:08SpeakerHey, things are good. Things are good. Fighting here on the state level here in California, on the local level, working with kids and families from cancer to you name it. So things are good here. Progress. I love that right now in the cannabis world, especially in medicinal cannabis. It's just after years and years and years and years and years of just struggling, it seems to just be snowballing right now as far as social awareness and change.

16:37SpeakerSo I don't know. Things are good for me. It's hard to complain.

16:40Etienne FontanWell, it's because we've been working on this for decades now. Yeah. Fortunately, got a groundswell working to where we have legislators that are willing to listen and to acquiesce and We're past the discussion of, hey, this is medical marijuana. We're past that now. Now it's getting to the nuts and bolts of it, which is a challenge and not without its own set of headaches. But this is part of the process, you know, due process.

17:05Etienne FontanYou can actually be involved. And thank you for being active and being involved and contributing to making people's lives better for all.

17:13BubblemanAnd speaking of better lives, how's Silas doing?

17:17SpeakerIt's doing good, man. It's doing good. We've been, you know, I'm really slow and meticulous with all the kids I work with. And that is no different from my own. So it's been a slow game back to where he was when we had him completely seizure free. But after, you know, those who don't know the story, we lost all the sources to his medicine because it was really highly tailored.

17:36SpeakerIt wasn't something that was readily available in stores. And We had the sheriff take down the people who were cultivating for us. And then we had our county ban everything. That's really how I started getting really active. And it's been about a year and a half getting back to where we were because cannabis doesn't grow overnight. You know, it took a long time. We ended up in the hospital.

17:55SpeakerBut I use that situation as a platform for social awareness in our neighborhood. So it's done a lot of good. Now we have them. Thank you for joining us today.

18:19SpeakerAnd wasn't, we were told when he got the diagnosis, it was really just so tactful on the doctor's part that he said, you know, your son has this condition called Lennox-Gastaut syndrome. He probably won't live to see his 10th birthday. You know, he was five at the time. That was his next sentence. All right, Doc. Well, thanks for letting me off easy on that. Appreciate it. Well, just on May 20th, he just celebrated his 10th birthday and his seizures are down by 99.6%.

18:47SpeakerI did the math for his birthday, meaning he was having some around 2,500. Now he's having around 10 a month and he's off 100% of the pharmaceuticals that he was on that were poisoning him and not really doing any good to begin with. So I don't know how much better we could be doing. I am pretty ecstatic at that note, but definitely working on that last 0.6% for sure.

19:11BubblemanThat is unbelievable. You know, many, many times I've heard of friends getting busted, friends having their crops taken away, not being able to pay the bills they were going to be paying and even ending up in jail. But wow, you're taking it to a next level when you take some kid's medicine away that there's nothing else that works. Like you putting some people on a one or a two or a three year journey of more seizures and it's that is like that's so wrong.

19:40SpeakerWell, at the time, we were 18 months seizure-free. And when we lost his meds, we spiraled out. He spiraled out of control. He ended up in UCSF hospitalized for a while. And we're still having some pretty intense grand mal seizures that we've never been able to get back to where we were 100% seizure-free. We're not back to where we were, but yeah, that's when, for those in California, the Sacramento Bee, our state capital newspaper, did a three-part series on myself and Silas called The Silas Project, if you Google that on the SACB.

20:13SpeakerAnd they interviewed the sheriff, they talked about the raid, it was, you know, and it was, I think it was a real eye-opener for a lot of people because, you know, when you lay out the arguments, as a lot of them did, it just sounded really... You know, when when you have to when you actually have a camera in front of you and the sheriff has to say, well, I don't know if he's the dad's really doing it for his kid or if he's just a front man for the cannabis industry.

20:40SpeakerYou know, that's what I said. OK, well, I've got a platform to now just rail them in the court of public opinion, because the reality is, is they don't have the moral. This whole this whole. Thank you for joining us.

21:11SpeakerWe do. My goal was to just, as a parent, not waste that platform and just really force them to have to explain themselves. And it really helped change public opinion in our county. And it's really been spreading up through California. And that's why things are great right now because the reality is medical cannabis is going to be, I think, the tide that really has the sea change in communities that are hard to reach.

21:40SpeakerDifferent church communities, different, you know, whether it's military, police background, we tend to get in these little bubbles and we, we, our ideas start to sync up as well. But the reality is, is that illness is, is bipartisan, right? It doesn't care where you come from. It doesn't care what your job is. It doesn't care if you're in a church group or a military group or a firefighter group or a hippie compound group, or it doesn't matter.

22:05SpeakerIt hits everybody. And when your loved one's lives are on the line and your doctor looks you in the eye and says, you know, there's really not much we can do, but we've heard some of these other options might be beneficial, your ideas start to change really quickly, you know, and that's why the people who are still trying to fight for, you know, sell this cannabis as evil prohibition nonsense are just, they're just wasting their time because... What medicine actually works best for silence?

22:33SpeakerWhat's the ratio of THC to CBD, for example? Yeah, so that's one of the things I think I want to get into when we start discussing cancer today is how it's presented a lot of times. And I think when Todd gets in, I think that was his point is how it's presented is how it can be somewhat beneficial or dangerous. And With Silas, for a year and a half, we did what everyone else, you know, said we should do, right?

22:59SpeakerAnd this was five years ago or so. So in children and CBD, it was still really new. It was, you know, there wasn't a lot understood, but everyone's saying CBD, CBD, CBD. So we tried everything we could find. We're spending somewhere around $2,500 a month on products.

23:16SpeakerAnd it never did anything, never gave them a single day without a seizure. We did see some cognitive improvement that has now become pretty commonly understood with CBD, but it didn't help with seizures at all. So we got, it wasn't until I started getting with local cultivators start to grow at the time strains that weren't as available. You couldn't really find two to one or different balance mixed tinctures in stores at that time.

23:42SpeakerThat we started really to find some success. And the strain that really did it for Silas and we use it to this day was a strain that we had flown in from Europe is where it was originally bred, but it's called Medihaze. And I found it to just be an amazingly beneficial strain. And it lands at about 2 to 1, almost exactly. It's got a really nice terpene profile.

24:05SpeakerIt's got some lanolool, and it's got some CBG that comes in there. So it's got some really good other helpful anticonvulsants. And when you say 2 to 1, you mean twice as much THC as CBD? No, I typically have the CBD first. I know that we haven't in our groups really decided which is going to go first, but no, it's twice as much CBD as the THC.

24:28SpeakerYeah, that's the CBD first. Yeah, yeah, that's how I tend to do it. Why is CBD first, Mark? I was told that just because alphabetical order, right? That's how I hear it most often, so that's how I tend to do it.

24:48BubblemanI wanted to add one thing to what Forrest was saying, the importance of sharing genetics. Yeah, the importance of sharing genetics. Do you see the perspective now, people? I'm not talking about some dude who might grow better weed than you down the road in California who's going to get the cultivar and now you can't sell it because he's this is the fear and scarcity that keeps these cuts from getting to the right people.

25:10BubblemanAnd when there are people that require cuts like Silas for this accurate cannabinoid and terpene profile that that You know, obviously, they've explained to us that losing it has been a huge problem and a year to two years of seizures and problems. Sharing, share your genetics because if there's a chance that a kid like Silas, that it can come across his table and offer him a better quality of life, then what has that taken away from you, allowing that to be shared?

25:42BubblemanShare your genetics, for God's sakes, people.

25:46SpeakerYeah, you know, it's a big pie. I don't see the shortage there. And one of the things, it's funny you mentioned Cherry Genetics, one of the people who has become a volunteer and mentor and really great asset for the Caladrius Network, which is the truly nonprofit charitable organization that partners with cultivators and others to Basically have a makeshift compound pharmacy and make these medicines for terminal and catastrophically ill kids and then donate to them at no cost ever is Wade Laughter, who was the, who's joined us on Hash Church before and was the father of Harlequin, right?

26:27SpeakerThe strain Harlequin. And there's been a lot of people who've come across good strains and some have lived and some have died and some have gotten well known and some have not. And, you know, I believe solely that the reason Harlequin has gotten to be at the level of recognition that it is, is because when he found it, his whole mindset was that I want to help and see as many people heal as possible.

26:47SpeakerAnd he just spread it as far as he could. As opposed to the latter where he could have taken it and just said, hey, I'm going to make this my proprietary strain and not share it. And I doubt it would be as prominent as it is today if he had. Harlequin was bred from catatonic, correct? No, no, it's an interesting story. It was, um, it was like some land race seeds that he had from Switzerland.

27:10SpeakerSo that's why Harlequin is a clone only strain is he was just sprouting these different, he hadn't, they had no idea what they were. They had had got them from Switzerland. He knows a little better than I did. Yeah. And he was able to just find this one that genetically was completely different than all the others and had a different look and different attitude. And we call him the plant whisperer.

27:33SpeakerHe loves to be in there and talk to the plants. And this one said, I'm different. And he just had the foresight enough to recognize something was different about it and started taking cuts. And back then, there weren't a lot of CBD strains out there. So when he I think it was Harborside at the time, and it came back at four to one, right? CBD to THC.

27:55SpeakerEveryone kind of perked up and, you know, cause there just wasn't a lot. I think Ringo's work was out there a little bit, but at the time there just wasn't a lot of strains out there that had that profile.

28:06BubblemanYeah, exactly. Someone's saying the classic, you know, whenever you say share, hey, we hear you, Bubble Man, but sometimes breeders work a lifetime for a special plant. Yeah, we know Sam exists and very few others do in this world. There are a fraction of people who have spent their life working on cannabis varieties, a fraction. I'm not talking about them, talking about everyone else who wants to act like them.

28:28BubblemanWithout the actual overhead or the history of doing work and calling themselves a true breeder, I'm not talking about someone giving away their life's work. I'm talking about sharing a fucking clone. That's what I'm talking about. Clonership is a downer.

28:46BubblemanI took that term from someone in the chat room. I think it was Pangea. Clonership is for fools. I like that. Share.

28:54SpeakerShare. I copyrighted clonership.

28:57BubblemanYeah, I know. You own it, Sam. We know. I'll send you some money through my bank account right now, you bastard.

29:04SpeakerNo problem. Please. Can I ask, Forrest, though, if you just took like a generic 2 to 1 CBD to THC ratio oil And use that for his medication? Is that effective? No, it hasn't worked as well. It's been really interesting. It's really what, you know, I just did an interview with Ethan Russo where I just grilled him on the entourage effect for exactly this reason. And I don't know if folks saw the article in Scientific America that just came out kind of Thank you so much for joining us.

29:55SpeakerI think a strain that for Silas, he responded adversely to was one called Electra 4, which is rather common as well. And we were using, it's not a two to one, but we were using it to try to recreate a two to one with other THC strains, right? Just mixing them until we hit the cannabinoid balance that we saw. And a lot of times, yeah, not only do we see no benefit, we would see an increase in activity.

30:17SpeakerSo I haven't been able to put my finger on. I have some speculation as to what it might be, but I try not to speculate too much publicly until I know. What about taking it to the next level then and adding the terpenes that you see in the profile of the plant to see if you can reproduce what the plant has to find out if there is some magic of that particular strain, or is it just...

30:41SpeakerThe chemicals that the strain is producing I haven't, I haven't gone that far. I know that there's some people now who are reconstructing it with like organic food grade terpenes. I didn't have the access to the right terpene isolate from cannabis, but if you're, I'm not sure what you're talking about there, but I know some people are doing the food grade reconstruction of terpenes and I think the jury's out as far as how the community feels about that.

31:08SpeakerBut I haven't, I haven't done that myself as far as working with kids in medicine. It's that unknown of is his condition specific to, again, the phytochemical profile in the plant, which is cannabinoids, terpenes, and others. And so it's probably somewhere in the others, and you have a variety of chemicals in the toolbox to sort of play with to try to understand exactly what might be leading to that entourage.

31:40SpeakerTaking it orally, correct? Yeah, yeah, a lot of these kids can't swallow pills. Then the flavonoids step in too. When you smoke it, flavonoids are deactivated. When you take it orally, the flavonoids could be quite powerful. That's right. Well, and we're just scratching the surface of understanding all the other more sensitive cannabinoids and terpenoids and flavonoids that are in there. You know, we don't have them all mapped out yet.

32:09SpeakerWe've got a small percentage of them mapped out. And every time I look at the tests and see this blank other, you know, I scratch my head and say, man, I can't wait to find out until we can really specify what a lot of those others are. And we're discovering new cannabinoids all the time. Yeah, but I would say we probably have the majority of the cannabinoids.

32:29SpeakerAnd the terpenes in cannabis already mapped out.

32:32BubblemanI think we probably do, but I'll tell you what we don't have mapped out. We don't have them all, but... Is how they are released, depending on how we consume them. Even from different surface areas like titanium to ceramic to glass to quartz to sapphire, I find there to be subtle nuances that... And different heat sources. Different heat sources. Absolutely. I think it's a fairly complex thing when we really break it down.

33:00BubblemanAnd I think that we really are on the tip of the iceberg here. Obviously, not having been really able to legally research this plant for decades has Thank you so much for joining us. I know we've sort of stunted the release of this information, but I feel like we're right now in this amazing time for cannabis information.

33:18SpeakerThink about it, Marcus. People did not understand the importance of terpenes 20 years ago. There was little to no talk on terpenes.

33:28BubblemanThat's not true at all. I think in the cannabis community it's fairly true.

33:34SpeakerThat's not true. Otto Wallach won the Nobel Prize for terpenes in 1902. Right. Is he in the cannabis industry? Otto Wallach, though, is a German professor. Right. We're talking about the cannabis industry. We're not talking about terpenes. We're talking about cannabis terpenes. Yeah, yeah. The cannabis industry. And how they can modify or potentiate.

33:54BubblemanAnd I added in the cannabis industry just because I knew exactly what he was talking about. When Sam showed me this in 2004. I don't know if it was 2000 or 2001 or 2002. I remember it was the early 2000s and I had not even seen pure cannabinoids. So I was tripping on like CBG and CBD and THCA and all these different cannabinoids he had. But the terpene modulation, the terpene effect of how I felt from a recreational standpoint, which I felt like I was pretty much a professional at that point, you can pretty much rest assured that the point in time when you realize you're a professional cannabis user is where you find yourself in Skunk Man Sam's living room smoking on his stash.

34:35BubblemanThat is the moment in time where you're like, yeah.

34:39ToddWell, you know, when it comes to terpenes, I haven't had a chance to say too much, Mark, but, you know, terpenes have been a big part of my recovery stuff. I really realized that. But when you put a purple punch underneath my nose after my surgery and it took my pain away, that's when I really truly realized how much terpenes affected my pain control 100%. I mean, I've been researching it for so long, the CBD strains and stuff like that you guys have been talking about, but seriously, when you put that terpene underneath my nose in the hospital...

35:07ToddAnd it took that pain away and nothing else did. That was amazing.

35:11SpeakerTo me, terpenes don't really get you high the way cannabis does with THC I'm talking about. But that said, my employees in my greenhouse told me that when they work all day harvesting plants from a greenhouse, because it was a one acre greenhouse, what happens is by the end of the day, they're really high and spaced out and They feel dingy. And so I says, how can this happen?

35:42SpeakerI mean, THC doesn't get transmitted through the skin with resin particularly, and it doesn't, you can't vaporize, you're not getting, When you're breathing the air, you're not getting THC. You're getting terpenes in the air. A lot of these terpenes, a lot of these hybrids are extremely high in beta-mercine. And beta-mercine is a terpenoid and a cannabinoid. It bonds to the CB2 receptor and is known to be a sedative.

36:09SpeakerTerpenoid, it's not a cannabinoid. But whatever, yeah, I understand. It's considered a cannabinoid because it bonds to the CB2 receptor. They're hybrids. Some of them do both. No, no. Yeah. Not a cannabinoid. I'll let Ethan know next time I talk to him, because he just did a great talk on it. I told him, yeah, it's a terpene. It's not even a terpenoid. Myrcene is a terpene. Pure and simple.

36:36SpeakerWhat is a cannabinoid? A cannabinoid is something that bonds to a cannabinoid receptor, right? Well, okay, yeah, I mean, so... A diverse chemical compound that acts on cannabinoid receptors... There's all kinds of synthetic androids which bind to the cannabinoid receptors, but they're not cannabinoids. Right. Well, they're synthetic cannabinoids. No. Okay, what about anandamide? It binds to the receptor. Yeah, it's an endogenous cannabinoid. I mean, there's different classes of cannabinoids, but we're talking about anandamide's an endogenous cannabinoid, like 2-AG.

37:11SpeakerPut it this way, it's not a phyto cannabinoid. No, it's, yeah, okay. Myrcene is a textbook monoterpene in cannabis, period, end of story. It doesn't matter what it does to the cannabinoid receptor. It's a terpene. And in this context, we use myrcene as a terpene, not as a…

37:41BubblemanHere's the thing. What about the fact that terpenes are the building blocks for cannabinoids?

37:46SpeakerYes. I was just going to say that, Marcus. The defining event that makes phytocannabinoids is the formation of CBGA. That's why they call it the so-called stem cell terpene. When that carbon-carbon bond formation happens between GPP And, and, and the aromatic ring of, of all atomic acid, that's, that is the formation, that carbon-carbon bond event is the first step in cannabinoid biosynthesis. So everything past that is a phytocannabinoid.

38:20SpeakerThe synthetic cannabinoids, yeah, were made by pharmaceutical companies to target the cannabinoid receptors, but in this context of chemistry, I think we put myrcene clearly into the terpene bucket because it's a very prevalent terpene in most, Thank you so much for joining us today.

39:01SpeakerWell, okay, well, we'll talk about semantics. You know, we can say semantics, whether it's called a cannabinoid or not, but it's obviously a CB2 agonist. I mean, you can call it not a cannabinoid. It's just a terpene that antagonizes the CB2 receptor. Nevertheless, that effect, that effect, back to what was being said, you know, may have something to do with folks who are heavily involved in inhaling over long periods of time, feeling some sort of very real effect.

39:26SpeakerYeah, when I finally piss-tested them, With a really, really good piss test. And none of the employees had any THC in their body. None of them were smokers. They all reported having feelings to lesser and more degree depending on the individuals. Any action of a small molecule like myrcene on CB2 receptors is strictly allosteric and not through the binding pocket in which cannabinoids and other agonists and antagonists bind.

40:03SpeakerAnd, you know, I would say that categorically, again, what you're going to find with myrcene is it just upregulates cannabinoid receptor expression. That's been already shown. But it does so in secondary effects, and I think the way it does it is it loosens up fluidity at the membrane. And so myrcene is known to do that, meaning that it starts exchanging things from the inside and outside of extracellular and intracellular compartments.

40:31BubblemanMan. This thing called cannabis is complex.

40:35SpeakerYeah, but that's where the fun comes in. Wouldn't it be really boring if we understood absolutely everything about it?

40:44BubblemanNo, and listen, the deeper we go into these conversations, I feel the deeper we go, the less we know. That's what I feel. Well, the more questions we think of. Man, it's incredible.

40:56Etienne FontanBut that's what's drove us. I mean, each one of us has a curiosity that drove us even further. If that curiosity wasn't there, if it had already been discovered, we didn't understand it, we would have probably just given up and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But each of us have found our own salvation through this plant, one way, shape, or form. And it's still almost specifically to us.

41:16Etienne FontanAnd it shows how diverse the plant is and its effect on so many different people in so many ways.

41:22SpeakerIt's... Forrest, are you thinking about beta-caryophyllene and not myrcene? Beta-caryophyllene is a known sequence. I think that's what you're referring to and not myrcene. I'm not finding myrcene in the literature.

41:35BubblemanI don't know. If he just talked to Ethan, listen, the thing about Ethan is when you... You might just have it mixed up, Mark.

41:41SpeakerBeta-caryophyllene is well. Myrcene is known too as well. But yeah, beta-caryophyllene is probably the one that's getting the most attention at the moment. As an immune modifier, correct.

41:53BubblemanRight. I just saw Ethan speak here in Vancouver and I learned a bunch of stuff. I felt pretty awesome after watching him speak. He is definitely a great asset to the community.

42:05SpeakerI saw that speech too. It was available online.

42:09BubblemanYeah, I threw it up as well on my, I just taped him and Dr. Bob, who went into the deep theories of thermodynamics and the far from equilibrium theories in 37 minutes, which was quite something to see.

42:22SpeakerEthan has a truly deep understanding of cannabis. Yes. I don't think there's a disagreement there. I just think it's maybe some semantics and words that we're talking about, which is which. Their interaction is their interaction. I mean, whether you want to label it a cannabinoid when it's doing some of those functions or not is, I guess, up for debate still. You know, what is important to know is, is especially getting back to the topic of terpenes is how influential they can be.

42:51SpeakerAnd not all of these terpenes are just modulating. Some are having different interactions with receptors. And, you know, as we start to understand that better, especially as it pertains to, you know, neurotransmitter issues where we're really trying to fine tune how the brain is functioning and to be able to improve whatever malfunction is causing issues. You know, these terpene interactions and modulations, same with the flavonoids, they're just absolutely fascinating.

43:15SpeakerI feel like we're just barely scratching the surface of what we understand at this point. I can honestly say that when we did the terpene work around 2000, we were... Thinking about it a little bit before that, but around 2000 we did it. What we found out right away was wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. Terpenes mixed with THC, if you use the right terpenes, absolutely can make the THC subjectively seem twice as strong.

43:45SpeakerI mean, there's absolutely no doubt, and we found that out immediately. But there's a lot, like you say, we were going to look at the flavonoids next, but then Almost 20 years ago, I found out that flavonoids are deactivated when they're smoked. So I never, never explored the flavonoids to see what they could do orally to pure THC. Because pure THC is really kind of boring. But when you mix it with the right terpenes and For Orly, maybe the flavonoids too.

44:19SpeakerIt really alters the reality.

44:22BubblemanI think it's why Entourage and Ensemble both fit the bill so well. Like to me, without ever hearing anyone say those things, but sitting in Sam's living room and dabbing the pure THCA and kind of being like, and him being like, what do you think? What do you think? Like, it's not that, it's not that, it's not that. And I was kind of like, yeah, it's kind of one dimensional.

44:42BubblemanIt's, I hear what you're saying about boring. And then it was like, add the terp. And suddenly it was, it just really was like the difference between watching someone sing acapella to now like have like 10 other people behind them or the orchestra, so to speak. So I think both ensemble and entourage are very suited, fitting terms.

45:02SpeakerMy favorite finding from those first couple days we did this was when Rob Clark said, if this was all there was to cannabis, I wouldn't be a smoker.

45:14BubblemanYeah, right?

45:15SpeakerPure THC. I laughed my head off.

45:19BubblemanYeah, but you guys had already taken it to such a level like you were already at a point in time where you preferred smoking your resin that came in at around a 60% THC versus the 70 plus and higher. You were already at a point where you were like, I prefer... Thank you so much for joining us.

45:56SpeakerJust only heads only. It would just, as soon as you put the heat near it, it would drip through the frickin' screens. No matter how fine the screens were.

46:07BubblemanYeah, but you know what? You would never lower a percentage of THC if it affected your high. You can say you did it because you like to...

46:16SpeakerThe difference... The difference between the stuff that was 60% THC and the stuff that was 80% THC, really nobody besides me could probably tell. Well, maybe you could, but not a whole lot.

46:33BubblemanNot at first. The first time I inhaled that stuff, I felt like... I don't know, I just, I thought like, it was almost like smoking DMT or something where you're like, yeah, sure, I'll try this. I mean, what, how, how strong can it be? And then just literally being like, I wonder if I'm going to like lose control of my bowels and pass out and shit myself on Sam's floor right now.

46:57BubblemanBecause that is how high I got.

46:59SpeakerIf we wanted to do that, we would have needed to smoke haze resin instead of skunk resin.

47:05BubblemanYeah, well, you know what? I've always seen the strange link between the incredible therapeutic properties of cannabis and taking it to that highest level of connoisseur-ness, of being able to find the best of the best of the best, really did simultaneously work out for patients Thank you so much for joining us today.

47:46BubblemanYou've come in and you've just gained this momentum in the cannabis industry. But what do you think of us? What do you think of all these long-haired dudes and we're sitting and we're smoking our bongs and whatnot? And she just replied, you know what? I love you guys. I think that what you guys have done is amazing. You've held on to this plant for all of these years so my son could come along and gain access to it and use it as a medicine and improve the quality of his life and extend his life.

48:12BubblemanSo it is a really neat kind of thing that simultaneously our love of cannabis, the connoisseur-ness of trying to find the best has worked out not only for something that some may see as shallow, as just adult use, but it's also really benefiting people from the medical aspect of cannabis. So I think that's really great.

48:34Etienne FontanI need some of that bowel emptying cannabis.

48:36BubblemanDude, I'm telling you, dude, that was another world. I'll never forget Rob. Rob used to be like, oh, I left Sam's house so, so stoned. Yes, I'd be like, well, how, how stoned could you possibly have left his house? Like, I mean, it, it sounds a little bit like a story. I kind of, it was the first time I really thought, is Rob stoned? Thank you so much for joining us.

49:20BubblemanHey, welcome, Todd. Welcome, Tony. We still haven't said hi to Tony. My goodness. I'm sorry, Tony. You've been in the room a while.

49:27ToddWe just watched Tony make a coffee. I was hoping there was some hash in there or something.

49:30BubblemanLook, he's never coming back. He's left. He's mad.

49:32SpeakerI actually do think there was hash in his coffee, to be honest.

49:36BubblemanWow, it'd be very, very hard to imagine his coffee not having hash. Oh, my goodness. I mean, come on.

49:43SpeakerThat's the other side of it, too. You're right. You're right. You can't go into a shop without them handing you water with cannabinoids in it. So pretty much everything is fair game.

49:54BubblemanEverything is fair game and never fight against access and never fight against options. This is my new method in the cannabis industry. Don't fight against established access. Don't fight against established processes. If you don't like an access point or you don't like a process, focus on making the access point that you do like or want or focus on the extraction process that you do believe in and appreciate.

50:24BubblemanI think that when I think of all the different people using cannabis for all of the different reasons, You know, I think my uncle who has cancer right now, you know, I'm not going to send him sugary treats. I want to find him some options that are sugar-free, that won't feed cancer while hopefully simultaneously trying to produce a little apoptosis in his body, which is really kind of what the conversation was going to be about today, Todd, wasn't it?

50:48BubblemanYou made a nice post on the internet, which of course I think right away many people Kind of misread. I think you had to make us...

51:14SpeakerSaying that, you know, oh, X amount of bud or X amount of oil is going to cure everything. And they don't know, you know, what kind of cancer you have. They don't kind of know what kind of body type you have. They don't know how progressed the cancer is. They don't know where the cancer is. And, you know, and I believe I, I of all people totally believe that cannabis can help cure us.

51:33SpeakerBut. When you have frigging quacks stepping in and saying that basically you could give two grams of grass, you know, in a suppository up someone's ass and it doesn't matter if the guy's 250 pounds or if it's a 50 pound little boil, you really got to question that as being seriously, that's a dose that just covers everything. Everybody, and I think that this is where I'm getting a little annoyed with people because there are people stepping into this community now that are literally peddling bullshit to desperate people who are looking for, really looking for help and they're getting snake oil salesmen that are giving them baloney regimens that May or may not help, you know.

52:16SpeakerAnd then the other side of it that bothers me is the oils, like Rick Simpson oil, which I have total issues with. You don't know the potency of it. You don't know what cannabis went into it. You don't know if it was laden with pesticides or appropriate growth regulators. We don't know unless you're making it yourself. And if you use a volatile... Thank you for joining us.

52:51SpeakerThere's no real group that's making sure everything's clean and because everything's illegal, we're kind of all like, you know, desperately relying on the kindness of others. And that's great. But now that we're seeing tests come back and cannabis fail and, you know, plants laden with Eagle 20 or other things that we don't want to consume, I think we all got to become super conscious of what we're doing and what we're giving others, especially now that there are people that are really trying to help You know, very fragile members of our community who are really weak and are already dealing with medical conditions and are looking for hope.

53:28SpeakerAnd I'm all about cannabis being that bright light at the end of the tunnel. But I'm really not all about these wannabe, you know, basically snake oil salesmen coming in wanting to peddle whatever crap they made and pretending like they have all the answers. So...

53:42BubblemanThey follow hope, Todd. They follow hope. Hope is their lure. They see that hope and they're like, oh yeah, there's going to be some good. And you know, the real bummer about what they do is they not only obviously are evil incarnate, But they're also simultaneously fucking with people who are doing it for real, doing this work out of passion and trying to learn this knowledge. The Forrests and the Tonys, people, the Todds for that matter, people that have a real fucking foundation in this that comes from like a lack of a quality of life or a potential loss of life or a potential fatal disease.

54:20BubblemanWhen you come from these foundations, You're not trying to sell snake oil to people, you understand? And the people who are doing it, the people who are selling the CBDs right now, and I'm not saying all of them, but when I hear that term, the CBDs, I said to someone the other day, I said, what are you talking about, your CBD cultivar? Are you selling like a pure CBD product?

54:45BubblemanAnd he says, no, no, no, it's just...

54:48SpeakerWhat's that? All the different stereoisomers. They're all different little CBD molecules.

54:53BubblemanYeah, but when they call it the one thing, I just want to know, is that a monomolecular medicine that you're talking about? Are you really talking about a cultivar that has 30 terpenes and maybe half a dozen cannabinoids, but one of them is CBD, so it's now called the CBD? That, to me, is a dangerous game.

55:11SpeakerThey have no clue.

55:13BubblemanYeah, so it's a tricky situation for sure.

55:16SpeakerI thought it was CBDs. This is what bugs me too because I hate to come out and be like, oh, I believe in CBD as well. But like I have really ever since I was a patient of Marinol, I've never really believed in the single molecule theory. And when people step up and they're like, oh, I'm going to put CBD in everything and it's going to fix everything, I think you're back to Marinol.

55:38SpeakerAnd, you know, not to be rude, but, you know, there's a lot more going on with all these terpenes modulating the cannabinoids effects. And unless you get a product similar to what Tony's putting out with Prana that's consistent, unless you can go back and get that again and again and again, you're not going to be able to get relief if you find it in that again and again and again.

55:58SpeakerIf you're mixing different batches of pot every time that you make up your RSO, Rick Simpson oil, you're going to get different effects every single batch. I'll say that because CBD is a fat-soluble antioxidant, even in its pure form, it's healthy to consume because a fat-soluble antioxidant will be stored in your adipose tissue and released on metabolism. I think it's actually a very... Different prophylactic way for your body to protect itself from disease.

56:28SpeakerDr. Can I say this then too? I am totally for us getting cannabinoids into our system. I believe that we don't know very much about the wonders that they're going to do. I'm also telling a lot of people I talk to, I advocate, hey, go buy hemp seed oil. Activate your endocannabinoid system with essential fatty acids. Start with your diet. An exercise. Dr. Yes. There are things that people are doing.

56:54SpeakerI mean, I get when you're sick, you're not really feeling like, yeah, let's get up and go to the gym. I feel like having a healthy meal. You're feeling horrible. But there's things we have to do to prepare our body for healing. It's not just a silver bullet. Everybody seems to get annoyed with me when they're like, how did you beat cancer? And I start going through this long litany of shit that I do and halfway through, they're like, I don't know if I'm up for all that.

57:17SpeakerI don't know what to say at that point. I'm sorry. If you don't eat clean and take care of yourself, good luck. You're going to keep getting your condition. Go ahead, Forrest. Oh, no. I was just laughing. I get that all the time. We want the quick fix, and it just doesn't work that way. And I think that one of the things that I come across all the time is this same issue.

57:34SpeakerAnd I think what people don't realize is when they just come in and they want cannabis to be magic, they tend to dangerously oversimplify things. And that's really where the risk is. It's not that... Thank you so much for joining us.

58:10SpeakerAnd I said, well, CBD is CBD. So if you're getting CBD, you know, unless we're going to get, you know, a lot of them aren't ready to start talking about more complex nuances, like we're talking about the entourage effect and other issues within some of these extractions. But, you know, if what the problem is, is someone will go in desperate, you know, wanting to save their kid or their loved one.

58:30SpeakerAnd they'll say, okay, which CBD do we get? And I say, well, CBD is what cures seizures. So try this. They try it. It's either Not close to the concentration for body weight that would be appropriate for what they need, or maybe it's just someone who isn't going to respond to CBD, which in my experience with now over 400 kids with rare epilepsy is the exception, one that just responds to just CBD.

58:54SpeakerIt's relatively rare. Of course, because you mentioned body weight and dose, can we talk about that for a second? Because I've certainly experienced some... Thank you so much for joining us.

59:10SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

59:35SpeakerWe've had people respond to micro doses and small doses that I was surprised that they responded to. And we've seen people need somewhere around 10 milligrams per kilo CBD, right? So that could be five milligrams per pound where you have your average, you know, eight, nine year old, that could be 500 milligrams a day if you have an adult. Thank you for joining us.

1:00:10SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:00:28SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:00:57SpeakerAnd I think that's why it's one of my latest thoughts in reading all the literature and studies as to why we have kids with the exact same conditions, even once it manifests in the same way, respond completely differently to different types of cannabinoids at different doses. And that understanding is important to realize why telling a parent that you need CBD, that's what stops seizures. Thank you for joining us today.

1:01:44SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

1:02:06SpeakerYou know, I would say to go back to your question and give someone else a chance to talk, you know, this is what that dangerous oversimplification can be. And when it comes to the dosages, it really is, in my experience so far, it's been relatively individualized. There are some similarities we can categorize, but for the most part, we still go through the same system of We have kids who for some reason respond to micro doses of acidic compounds.

1:02:30SpeakerAnd we have some kids that don't start to respond until we hit three, four, 500 milligrams of CBD and sometimes THC a day. And all of a sudden you see that miracle switch kick on and their body's able to regulate. I'm glad you said that, actually. I think a lot of people are looking for a miracle cure. I didn't mean to cut you off, John. But I want to point out there is no magic in Rick Simpson oil.

1:02:54SpeakerThe only thing there is that is healing anyone that's ever taken it are the cannabinoids and the terpenes working together in some way to help and benefit you. There's no magic in that oil.

1:03:06ToddI was going to talk about the dosage and one thing we were taking a look at, and this is back in the day, we're taking a look at nationality or race. So not only do we look at body weight, we look at the nationality. Some people are prone to take more higher dosages based on if they're Scottish or stuff like that. So those things that we were looking at too that we also paid attention to, just wanted to make mention of that.

1:03:28SpeakerTodd, you said terpenes in Rick Simpson oil. Isn't the procedure is just you, they boil it for a long time. I think most of the… I agree with what you're saying. They're gone. The only magic I'm saying that's really in any of the oil are the cannabinoids and the terpenes that are left that modulate them because I believe on this panel, we all believe in terpene modulation.

1:03:50SpeakerWe've all had cannabinoids without terpenes and they're eh. Which is why there's been a big thing about terpenes. So the problem I have with Rick Simpson oil is the inconsistency in making it, the product going into it, the alcohol as a solvent. I've got tons of issues with it. But really what people are looking for are the cannabinoids in the terpenes contained inside the cannabis plant. That's it.

1:04:13SpeakerI thought he was originally using naphtha and other nasty solvents and not really just trying to do something to cure himself. He wasn't necessarily trying to make a cure for everyone else and I think because It worked for him. He wanted to share it with other people, but I don't think he was chemically knowledgeable of using things like naphtha, which are kind of nasty extracts. There's much better, cleaner extraction.

1:04:38SpeakerCan I point out, he points out to use isopropyl alcohol, which is a poison, and if people don't get that completely out of whatever product they consume, they can poison themselves. So telling people that isopropyl alcohol is interchangeable with, say, grain alcohol is for consumable products as a solvent to me is not only bad information it is dangerous information I think there's a big confusion on even what Rick Simpson Oil is.

1:05:02SpeakerI mean, even if I interviewed Rick once and asked him, like, what is Rick Simpson Oil? Because I hear it used for everything. Are we talking about FICO, right? Full Extract Cannabis Oil and any sort of extracts, CO2, you know, pressure, whatever. What is Rick Simpson Oil? And really, no one can even answer that, Rick himself. It's like, well, it's just, you know, cannabis concentrate. So I have to, anytime someone says Rick Simpson Oil, I'm like, okay, what are you talking about?

1:05:27SpeakerAre you talking about his method? It's Ash. It's his oil. Like Mark Sheldon oil. Like Forrest Hurt oil. We all have oil. It's just his oil.

1:05:36BubblemanRight. Well, I've always said what Todd says. I've always told people this. I would also, you know, not that we've really talked about it, but another danger of giving medical advice with cannabis when you really shouldn't be or don't know what you're saying. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:06:17BubblemanYou wouldn't put terps on it? Just a few terps. Call Tony up. Be like, dude, what cultivar should I be putting on my arm?

1:06:23SpeakerYour arm gets ripped off. You have to drink the terps. Got to rub some of that tussin on there.

1:06:29BubblemanRight, some tussin. A little tussin?

1:06:32SpeakerRub a little tussin.

1:06:33BubblemanYeah, that's awesome. A little Chris Rub.

1:06:36SpeakerMarcus, balance that with what Dr. David Allen says, who believes that the discovery of the endocannabinoid Thank you for joining us.

1:07:04SpeakerYeah, but can I throw this out there? Every single wonderful thing that Rick Simpson Oil has ever potentially done for anybody who's ever consumed it only happened because of the cannabinoids that were left in the oil after the extraction. It's just about cannabinoids, right? Of course. So it doesn't matter. 100%. If they take some of the dry seed and dump it in their hemp seed oil, mix it up and take that, there you have an activated great oil.

1:07:33SpeakerYou could use that. I mean, without any of the nasties, you know. And the more I thought about it, it's funny, Tony, I thought about you more and more with Prana because until people get their hands on a consistent product, they will not get a consistent remedy. Yeah, I know Tony wasn't asking for it, but a tour in his place and seeing what they're doing up there with Prana is a strictly patient advocate and someone who's a science nerd at the same time.

1:08:01SpeakerI was frankly blown away at what I see going out of some of those products. And that's where education is critical because they're not all the same. You know, people want to know, it's like, well, hey, I can get this 30 ml jar of CBD hemp from China. It's only 15 bucks. You know, it's going to be great. They don't understand that there is a world of difference in what is being produced from these, you know, really quality medical companies who are out to see health and just a line, which I would say is the majority, a line of people who just are able to grow cannabis.

1:08:33SpeakerThey've got a hot plate and some olive oil and they're just like, I want to get on this train, you know, and it's just, it's really, uh, Really risky out there for some people. And I think that's what, you know, Todd was referring to with his post and I saw it right away, but people, I think who don't have the hands-on experience with patients understand how important and sensitive of an issue this is.

1:08:55SpeakerYou don't just jump in and start playing doctor with patients, you know?

1:08:59BubblemanYeah. The metaphor is quite strong in the sense of, once again, going back to the connoisseur. When you get people that are OCD, like Tony, myself, Skunk Man Sam, different levels to this thing where you take it to the most intense level, and then you get people that are business people that are like, I'm going to get involved in this business. They're selling this Chinese CBD oil.

1:09:22BubblemanIt's the equivalent of like swag Mexican molded out weed compared to like super high grade greenhouse Cali grown perfection. That's the difference. It's like you've got people who have never used the product. They don't even understand the relationship of cannabinoids, terpenes, using it in their own body, knowing people and sharing it with them and watching the results because that's, I mean, really how this all started was, Through civil disobedience, through finally understanding, wait, we know this can help people.

1:09:53BubblemanWell, then it has to help people. And that's why Hillary started the BC Compassion Club back in 1997, inspired by Valerie and Todd and a lot of the people down in California who were pushing the boundaries there already. It was civil disobedience. We weren't all scientists and doctors in the beginning. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:10:26ToddJust talking about standardization, I think it's the most important part of the industry now when it comes to fighting these diseases like cancer, like my neighbor Michael, having the same consistency of cannabinoids over and over and not just randomly taking whatever comes to you from these clubs like with piranha and stuff. That consistency and standardization is what's helped me every day to be able to control my pain and know what to deal with.

1:10:49ToddThat's what a lot of people don't understand, just taking something random. You're not getting that consistency, so when you're dealing with any kind of Thank you for joining us.

1:11:21SpeakerReally, you're just got them chasing their tail. One bag of pot might work, one bag of pot might not, one bag of hash might be great, the next one didn't touch it at all. And I mean, this is why when I was at Tony's place and I was looking at all the product packages and thinking, you know, it's not just getting it consistent, it's putting a clean product into that in the first place so that you can trust the product isn't potentially contaminated this package and it wasn't last package.

1:11:48SpeakerAnd we really need this kind of ethics approach Moving into this industry or this industry is going to look like shit in my opinion. Like the clowns that are around yelling loudly, you know, hey, come use my backyard product. We got to be able to have it.

1:12:06BubblemanGo ahead. I was just going to say that's why we're setting these standards in the first place. People that have been involved in this industry for 10 and 20 and 30 years and now realizing that's why Edvesa was born, Tony's newest company that runs this lab. It was born to take care of these three brands of Prana, of Blue River, and powered by Bubble Man Brands. So this is, you know, this is a long sort of like many roads, you know, Coming at different angles to get to the Advesa Lab, which to me as well is next level.

1:12:40BubblemanIt is setting the bar high.

1:12:44SpeakerI think the cannabis, one of the biggest mistakes to oversimplify the cannabis community could make is to have the same lack of tolerance for discussion and challenging ideas as we see in all other aspects of society right now. The whole left, right, politics, craziness. If we have that same approach to where new information comes out or challenging ideas come out and we just shut it down because it might actually criticize something that has to do with cannabis as opposed to hear it and listen and adapt and then you know we're doing the whole cause the disservice I mean new information comes out it turns out that cannabis is Thank you for joining us today.

1:13:55SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:14:10SpeakerPlants for potential medicine that our society has seen in our lifetime, our parents' lifetime, and vice versa. Now we're getting the science to understand it. Without being able to challenge how we approach it and adapt and change some of those habits, we're going to step into the same traps that we criticize others of putting people's lives ahead of profits, of hiding life-saving information when really this is something that is a part of our Thank you for joining us.

1:14:55SpeakerYou know, some of the points you make about strains and clones and just strike some balance. There's balance in there. It's not all give it away. It's not all keep it. But if we're not able to have that discussion as we evolve, then, you know, how are we any different than some of these other communities we've been criticizing for decades? And I want to be honest and say that I think we need to protect people in our community who are honestly not with a lot of money and that aren't in a situation of really being strong enough to see through a lot of the bullshit, you know, that we're seeing.

1:15:25SpeakerI mean, I really take issue with people like Simpson because, you know, he's out there pushing his $39.95 book and he's, you know, buy my book, buy my book. And if he really cared about people, the information would be free. The day I released my book, How to Grow Medical Marijuana, I gave it away free on the internet at the exact same time because it's really not about making money.

1:15:45SpeakerIt was about reaching people, and I wish other people would see that too. If you really want to help people, don't stand there trying to sell them something that's really not even that informative. Go ahead. The truth, Todd. I released it on PDF five minutes before you released it to the public.

1:16:04SpeakerAh, yes. And all I can say to that is thank you. I'm glad the world got to see it. Now I got to make another one. But, you know, we really should be really questioning the motives of others. I mean, when the FDA tested a lot of that CBD products, they found out that almost half of the products being sold did not even have CBD in them.

1:16:22SpeakerYep. So really it's buyer beware now and we can't trust what's on the package. We need to know the source is truthful too. And the reality is that we need more people in this industry that have ethics than the ones that don't have ethics. I almost think that we need to point them out. We need to get them out of the way because if somebody's selling a CBD product that doesn't even have CBD in it and somebody uses it, it's of course not going to work.

1:16:47SpeakerBut they're going to feel like cannabis doesn't work because it didn't work for them when in the reality there was no cannabis in the product that they even tried. And that discredits all of us. That's happening now with some of the biggest brands in the country. I just tested probably the biggest kids CBD trusted brand in the country and I sent it for a full cannabinoid and a full terpene profile and it came back with nothing.

1:17:13SpeakerNot a terpene, not a cannabinoid, nothing. It was nothing but carrier oil, which I don't even know what it was. We need to call them out. Those companies are a discredit to the cannabis community. They're a discredit to cannabis. They're hustlers and they should be locked up. Those people are fucking with people's lives. $189 for a 30 ml dropper. What was the concentration of cannabinoids supposed to be?

1:17:39SpeakerThey didn't say. Higher than zero. It says hemp extract every day plus medicine. And I looked on their website. I couldn't find anything. And I have parents using this. So we ordered some and tested it. And there was just nothing in it. And a lot of those products don't tell you what's in them. Some of them have CBD or other cannabinoids and some don't. But that's another way that they're manipulating that I really am strongly against is that controlling their patient group through omission, right?

1:18:11SpeakerThey don't teach them what they're getting. They say, I don't want you to know how many milligrams you're dosing. We're going to say take this many drops, right? Or take this much ML without any of the information on the package so that people get dependent on having to come back to their brands just through a lack of education. And then some of those have nothing in them.

1:18:29BubblemanWell listen, we are glad here at, sorry Mark, we are glad here at Hash Church to weekly release the new list of companies that are doing this because honestly, like I, like what's the worst case scenario? They're going to try to sue us? If the work's been done, and it's not just calling a company out, there's been tests done, we have no problem.

1:18:50SpeakerThe worst thing they can do is make us take their products and use them. I'll come here and share the name. I had it tested and it's such a big company that I'm sending it to Steep Hill Labs for a second round of tests just to make sure there wasn't some sort of fluke. And if it comes back the exact same, I will come right on here and share with you who it is because it needs to be national news, frankly.

1:19:13SpeakerIt's just unacceptable. When I went to the Cannabis Liberation Park in Amsterdam today, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:19:39SpeakerYeah, I'm really curious. I would almost, though, be less suspicious of the CBD in Europe because of the longstanding hemp farms that have been growing and the fact that Germany's been doing CO2 extraction of hemp, to my knowledge, for over a decade for companies like Hempflax. So I'm sure there's a lot of companies sourcing very legitimate CBD from even Ben's Farm, for instance, because that stuff's going somewhere.

1:20:09SpeakerAnd they quantify the metric ton.

1:20:11BubblemanBut one of the problems is that when they press the oil through the cold press, they get these small amounts of CBD that contaminate the oil. And I think it's where the CBD oil really...

1:20:22SpeakerIt's supercritical CO2 extraction.

1:20:25BubblemanRight, but I'm not talking about that. What I'm talking about is this. Hemp oil is made with a coal press, okay? The coal press squishes the seed and cannabinoids that are in the hemp, CBD, goes into the oil. It's in a very, very, very low, low percent, but I think it's how... These oils started getting sent over borders and people thinking, oh, CBD is fine to send over the border.

1:20:48BubblemanThey're doing it out of Europe. They're doing it out of Canada. There's this oil, but it's not a CBD extract at all.

1:20:55SpeakerI'll tell you what happened.

1:20:56BubblemanSerious snake oil salesman.

1:20:58SpeakerIt was back in 1998. The DEA stopped the shipment of hemp seeds coming out of Canada because they were contaminated with cannabinoids. Hemp seed oil itself does not have any cannabinoids in it. No, but calyxes do. Well, what would happen though is right. So the hulls would scrape against the oils on the external part of the hemp plant, which would contaminate the oil. So the Hemp Industries Association sued the DEA and technically won, saying that a small amount of natural contamination is part of the process.

1:21:30SpeakerThat's what I'm saying. It has to be overlooked. And that's what the original CBD oil was. Well, it's not so much it was CBD oil. CBD was one of the, it was the most predominant cannabinoid in hemp. So it was most predominant contaminant in the oil, if this makes simple sense.

1:21:49BubblemanIt's 100% makes simple sense. It's exactly what I'm saying. When you lower the THC so much like the Ukrainians did, or for that matter, any of the groups that did it, There's only so many other cannabinoids that are going to be left over, and CBD seems to be one that is prevalent, at least in Zolotinotia and Compolti and other varieties.

1:22:09SpeakerCan I bring up a weird little thought, though? Almost CBD proves that prohibition is a mental prohibition more than it's a real prohibition, because those of us who look at cannabinoids understand CBD is a cannabinoid, cannabinoids is Schedule 1, Schedule 1 is illegal. But these people that want to believe that it's not legal have been shipping this stuff all over the place. And it makes me wonder if the drug war is more of a battle of our imagination than it is a big battle of our reality.

1:22:44SpeakerYou know, I think that one of the things that's not being talked about with this All of that stuff overseas. You know, have you guys seen it? You can get like a gallon now. It's called CBD oil. It's great. You can get it by the gallon. I've caught a couple of companies when I asked them and start to question what they're making and what their process is, is they're not even growing it anymore.

1:23:03SpeakerThere's like, no, we just get it from by the gallon from these companies overseas and slap a label on it and sell it here in the United States. And that's happening more and more commonly. We're seeing that quite a bit. Especially here in California, we see it a lot. When the test results all start to look the same, the tape looks the same, smells the same, almost nothing in it.

1:23:24SpeakerAnd it's what it is, is they're just buying this bulk CB, quote unquote, CBD oil by the gallon and just slapping a label on it for, you know, because it's $150 a bottle and go from there.

1:23:35BubblemanListen, anytime they call it CBD anything, my spider sense goes off. I'm just like, why are you calling it that unless it's a monomolecular like you've purified it into crystalline? Sure, okay, that's a CBD product.

1:23:53SpeakerAnd now you can buy that. I think you can buy that in bulk. You can. Most of the products that I see out there, I mean, I hope I'm not in minority, have certificates of analysis that says what the bag of powder analyzes for. And so I don't know that those have to be, again, retested again to make sure that you didn't get some bad result. But to me, if it's crystalline, what you can do is take a little bit of the material, get yourself a melting point apparatus, and see at which point it melts.

1:24:28SpeakerIf it's CBD and it melts at the right point, then you know it's pretty pure. Indeed.

1:24:35BubblemanYou've been quiet, Tony. What's going on over there? You muted? Can you hear me? Oh, now I can hear you.

1:24:41SpeakerYou can hear me?

1:24:42BubblemanYeah.

1:24:43SpeakerThere we go.

1:24:43BubblemanWe haven't heard you yet.

1:24:45SpeakerNo, I was on the other phone actually talking to a patient. But I was interested in that conversation and wanted to add a few things to that. So when people manufacture products and you look at, let's say, California versus Colorado, you're still on the honor system in California for putting like test results. And so, you know, think about that as a manufacturer. Even though we're on an honor system, everything that I manufacture, we spend, we do like a bulk $2,500 a month for SC Labs just for Prana.

1:25:25SpeakerWe have to test the flowers for obviously potency terpenes, but pesticides and powdery mildew are like a no. A couple of people on this panel know that from me because I've worked with you. And like the second I, you know, somebody says, oh, we've got this Harlequin one-to-one. I was like, oh, first thing I say to you, I don't even care about the potency anymore. I'm like, oh, did it pass pesticides or does it have PM or test or anything like that?

1:25:57SpeakerBecause once you take that flower and you make a medicine, And you concentrate it, let's say, into a pill or a tincture, and then you just put it out to the public, you're given a privilege right now To be able to help people. And when you think about it, and it's supposed to be medicine and it's a not-for-profit in California, it's just to be helping people. So if you give them a product that isn't labeled, doesn't have a dose on it, and is full of poison, are you really helping anyone?

1:26:24SpeakerYou're just hurting the situation. So if a manufacturer in this time is not voluntarily putting their test results on all of their actual end products, so I test the batch of the flour and the end product, And put that batch number in the test result on each box and each product itself. If they're not doing that in a volunteer state, think about how hard it's going to be for them to do it when they have to do it regulated.

1:26:51SpeakerSo those are already things that I would have red flags for if there's any kind of product out there that doesn't have their batch number and the results on it. And we agree with you, Tony. If people are manufacturing for sale to other people, especially patients, Don't they deserve this at the least? Of course it has to be proven to be safe before it can be sold in commerce.

1:27:14SpeakerThat should be the way it is. And anybody who has any soul will do it that way. But not everybody. And part of what this is talking about is before we're even talking about dosing or effectivity, we're talking about making sure the product that we're handing to people to go and experiment on themselves with is clean.

1:27:33Etienne FontanRight. And this is what we've seen here in Berkeley with the testing is that, you know, we have decided to do it ourselves. And we saw that not everybody else was doing it. So we got the law passed in the city. So now everybody in the city is doing it. So we're all held at the same standard. And I'm thankful for Prana and other, you know, manufacturers that are trying to do it right now because you will have a place in the future market.

1:27:58Etienne FontanBecause if you're doing it half-assed now and fucking around and, you know, not doing it properly from the get-go, you're wasting your time in the future because it's going to be completely regulated because it's no longer the city that's going to blackball you, it's the state. And once you're blackballed by the state, you're done.

1:28:15SpeakerThere will be talented people Who can step up to the batter box and follow the rules.

1:28:22Etienne FontanAnd they will test the entire time. So don't think you can get by on one batch or one thing like prompt. You have to do it properly every single time. And it's very expensive. I have to test everything I have. So I have contracts with three different labs to, You know, and it costs me hundreds of thousands of dollars to test, but it's the right thing to do because we as patients have to take care of ourselves in the absence of these types of regulations.

1:28:48Etienne FontanIf we're patients really wanting to help each other, we go to these types of expenses.

1:28:52SpeakerAnd you guys have a very high standard, I know, even on the full melt side. There's someone that we work with, I think, that's been on here, Dank Duchess, before. We just had this conversation because I was helping her dry her hash with the freeze dryer and explaining getting the water out, that process. I know a lot of people knock on freeze dryers but if you use it properly, the idea is getting the water away from the resin as fast as possible.

1:29:19SpeakerAnd with subcritical sublimation, basically, as it's colder, you're pulling it and the water's expanding and it's gently coming off. She just went through your whole testing and she was terrified. It was like, she was like, oh, they said nine out of 10 is going to fail this. And I said, yeah, you're right. Nine out of 10 hash makers will fail this and water hash can be dangerous too.

1:29:42SpeakerThat, you know, if you don't get the water.

1:29:44BubblemanEspecially, especially if you're pressing and breaking those heads and rubbing them all into themselves.

1:29:50SpeakerOh my God. To be truthful, that's been my biggest problem with water hash the whole way through is because unless I'm making it myself, I don't trust it coming from other people because I'm not sure if they know how to dry it and handle it correctly. Yeah.

1:30:03BubblemanI like when it looks like powder like this. Like it's just, I know it's dry. I've, I trained this person. I know he knows how to dry hash, but if I get it and it's already pressed and in a piece, I'm more like, you know, I've just, I came from the mentality of starting the bubble bags and bubble hash and coming out with this sort of Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:30:46BubblemanPress it down. So I'm not opposed to people enjoying their pressed hash, but for me, I want to see the hash be powder. I love that about sift and bubble hash, that I can see micro-encapsulated resin heads, and I can know without a shadow of a doubt of what it is. I don't have to guess if it's been pressed together. I've seen some beautiful hash pressed, don't get me wrong, but I really prefer it come to me as a powder, and then I can press a little piece if I like.

1:31:14Etienne FontanI think, Todd, you made a great point is that, you know, that's one of the main reasons why I was very, you know, until testing and things like that was very skeptical as well. And it would only make my own water hash or around people where I watch them actually make it because I've, you, I think everybody can attest. I think you've seen more ruined water hash than you've seen perfect water hash.

1:31:35BubblemanYeah, I'll tell you, I used to see so much. People used to show me Waterhash and I'd crack it open under my nose and be like, what do you think? And I'd be like, I think it's going bad. I think it's moldy.

1:31:46Etienne FontanWorst smell, right? Just the funk. Turned funk. Oh, that's fun. Listen, and I'm responsible.

1:31:53SpeakerAnd that's not the UK cheese type of funk, you know? No, not the kind. You're like, ooh, that's the spicy under the armpit foot. It's not the good. Sounds wrong. It smells wrong. It smells wrong on your nose.

1:32:07BubblemanI will take responsibility for the first few years.

1:32:09SpeakerI wonder what mold terps are. What do you think about that, Scaldone? Mold terps? When something goes moldy, what's that terp? Oh, no, it just degrades into lower molecular weight shit like sulfides, you know. Sulfate-reducing bacteria makes sulfide. That's sewer gas. Oh, that's what it smells like. Yeah, it's a sulfur type of sewer gas. So things can go literally rank just like food. Rank and dank. That's why it's important that like when you go, like when I go food shopping, you know, I'm like, oh, brown rice sprouted vegan, Cereal.

1:32:44SpeakerThe first thing I do is I see this name, I see this whole thing, and I turn the box around. I have to read everything in it. Especially with cannabis, that's what anyone would want. They want to read the label, what's in it. It's definitely good to be able to read the label. Wouldn't you think, again, medically compromised patients especially should be tuned into this? Thank you for joining us.

1:33:17SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:33:41SpeakerThe pesticide testing results and cannabinoid testing results, it's just where the industry has gotten. And the consumer, I think, is wise enough to be able to insist on that. And that's when they're paying high dollar at a dispensary for a medicated product. But, you know, if it's a life and death situation, you would think that that would be a really important factor in making a choice. Some of them are wise enough.

1:34:07SpeakerI mean, you get these people who are coming into the industry just because their kids are sick and they're coming out of like soccer camp and don't know anything about cannabis and just heard this might save their kids. Those folks are ripe for the slaughter. I mean, they're believed what they're kind of told and they don't know anything other than they heard CBD on CNN. Can I point this out?

1:34:28SpeakerMy mom didn't give it to me until I had cancer in soft tissue between my left lung and my heart and I was dying. You know, and that was the ninth time in eight years that I'd had it and it taken her that long to get around to passing me her joint. I mean, so people are doing this at the desperate end of their life. It's the last thing they can think of doing.

1:34:47SpeakerThey're desperate. A lot of them have gone through Western medicine. They come home crying. Their kids are not responding. And realiztically, they're in very vulnerable positions. And, you know, I see it. I feel it because I was the kid in the family watching my mom have breakdowns.

1:35:04Etienne FontanAnd they're the ones that I get the complaints about and the upset family member after that person has died because they believed this bullshit that they were told. And they are the absolute victims, unfortunately, or more and more of these snake oil salesmen. And because they just want to do the right thing. They think they're doing the right thing because of limited access or limited access to information.

1:35:29Etienne FontanAnd that is the worst. And that is the most painful thing to hear is the after effect that it's too late. This person's already died and that whatever they had didn't work. And they had this belief until their dying day because they were told this thing and they held it to their belief that it was their savior. And this is where we need science to, and where I thank science for absolutely destroying the rest of that misinformation.

1:35:53SpeakerMay I say this though? You know, one of my biggest problems with misinformation and let's take it for instance is the Rick Simpson hemp oil people is because hemp seed oil that you get at your whole food store that comes out of a hemp seed that actually is full of essential fatty acids that also activate your endocannabinoid system and that all of us should be advocating that everybody uses on it daily is not the same as the oil that we get when we We either super critically extract the cannabinoids and terpenes from little resinous heads or use a different solvent such as alcohol, butane, propane, or even a dry sift screen and collect just the resin heads.

1:36:33SpeakerI mean, this oil is the cannabinoid oil. The other oil is the healthy EFA oil that comes from the seeds and they're not the same. You know, and I think a lot of people seem to get confused that hemp oil and hemp seed oil are the same when they're absolutely have nothing to do with each other, but they're both really in a sense working towards the same way because you have an endocannabinoid system, we all do, that could not well be working that great because we're not getting EFAs into our diet like we should.

1:37:06SpeakerAnd if we're not Thank you so much for joining us.

1:37:35SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:38:05SpeakerThink about everything that we put into our body and what the human body goes through. So when you guys were talking about dosing and what one cannabinoid would do to another, we actually track all of our patients. So I get like pretty good looks at the data of different patient bases when you start seeing things in a thousand or 10,000. And what I noticed that affects the different types of dosing besides age, because there's definitely a significant difference between, you know, somebody under the age of, say, 12.

1:38:41SpeakerAnd I look at hormones, you know, so if there's a child, they haven't gone through this hormone change that adults have gone through. And cannabinoids seem to affect them in lower dosages for a lot more results, meaning just like when you see you take other medicines and say, oh, if you're under the age of 12, don't exceed this amount. If you're an adult, you can take this many pills, you know, Benadryl as an example.

1:39:07SpeakerAnd same thing with cannabis. I find with that data mining that you see under 12, they have a different response to adults. And then... And then the endocannabinoid system actually evolves with that age. So it's different from when we're young and when we're adult and then when we're a senior. So if we're 55 plus or 65 plus, the system has evolved with you and has changed and your response to different things has to do with your life that you lived.

1:39:38SpeakerSo in a sense, If you've lived a life that some patients would say, well, I've been on fentanyl for eight years. Right? A fentanyl patch. Or I've been on this particular chemical or synthetic substance. This has a profound effect of staining or leaving footprints on the endocannabinoid system. And so what Todd's saying in the nutrition is important about the things that we put in our body. And this is something that we also promote on our programs with nutritional guides of pH balanced foods.

1:40:14SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

1:40:41SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:40:57SpeakerThe best part of this plan is that we can personalize it, and we can personalize medicine once we start breaking them down into categories of terpene profiles, chemotypes, and their cannabinoid profiles. Some of you like Forrest and Todd have seen like what I was doing with Prana and that's what I was trying to provide as a way to personalize it because from a young age to an adult, you have different scenarios that affect people's lives.

1:41:30SpeakerI've had seniors that were 75 plus that could take 300, 400 milligrams a day using our non-active during the day and non-active at night. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:41:58SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:42:18SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:42:37SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:42:53SpeakerSam, in all your reading you've done, have you done any reading that talks about a person's age and digestibility of cannabinoids? Because I know from reading the Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding, we have three body types, and I was wondering if as we age, if we digest the cannabinoids differently? Are we really concentrated on what the plant Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:43:44SpeakerI think they extracted and made it pure. It was really super helpful for psychotic patients. It reduced psychotic incidences. That was our first use and we were trying to help somebody so we got some of our material, our CBD variety and supplied them with the ground up material so they could extract the CBD and use it for this test for psychotic patients. And it was successful. The root of my question was that I wonder as our bodies change that it's a natural progression with aging and the way we digest foods becomes our metabolism becomes slower over time.

1:44:27SpeakerIf in a sense what you're also saying, Tony, is that somebody that's older would have a slower metabolism naturally just simply because of their age. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:45:05SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:45:24SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:45:46SpeakerWell, can I say this? Did you see the Kevin McKernan slide, Tony, that had the brain growth? And he showed it was a four milligram treatment plan. And I think the good news is that it seems like- That was actually Dr. Deb Kimless. I think just Kevin posted a picture of it. It was Deb Kimlis' talk that that slide was taken from. Really, a low dose is what struck me, though, and I was thinking that, really, I wonder if it's just a low dose that really activates our endocannabinoid system.

1:46:19SpeakerI just want to mention, just so we can ground this discussion in what's known in reality, is the placebo effect is a real, real thing, and it really, really, really does happen. It really does happen. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:46:51SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:47:09SpeakerA patient as opposed to olive oil plus cannabis. I mean this has to be conducted and it has to be done in a statistically valid way so we can start to see you know does this micro dosing really have the impact that we think or is it again just a placebo effect where you can you know just basically give anything. But I wanted to go back to something I think that Forrest had touched on earlier which was Especially with epileptic patients, I think that there's a notion, again, that CBD is the magic bullet for epilepsy.

1:47:44SpeakerAnd it totally is not, especially when you consider the prevalence of CB1 receptors in the central human nervous system. And certainly, if you're talking about trying to shut down grand mal seizure, I mean, a microdose is not going to do it. You almost need to flood those receptors, get it there immediately in the most I've seen it with my own eyes. A young girl undergoing a convulsive seizure, get a few drops of oil, and basically stop.

1:48:20SpeakerThe seizure stops, which shows you the molecular recognition at that level in our bodies, how starved Her body is for, if this is a CBD oil, it's shutting down anandamide destruction by inhibiting the enzyme that regulates anandamide. So her body is right at that tipping point to where she can get just a little drop of oil and automatically just stop seizures. So yeah, it is quite amazing.

1:48:53SpeakerI just wanted to mention the placebo effect and the reason why double-blind... Thank you for joining us.

1:49:29SpeakerBut 30 to 40% of your patients. That's high. Yeah. So that tells you, well, that tells you how strong the mind is. Because if the mind believes something, it's actually going to work. So because the patient's like, well, whatever you gave me, I don't care if it's, You know, grind it up ginger and cinnamon. Dr. Like a doctor in a white outfit and a pill bottle, and they feel it's coming from, you know, again, reputable studies.

1:49:57SpeakerAgain, I guess when you're running clinical trials, it's one of those things where, and maybe Todd can speak to this, you know, how would you like to be the cancer Thank you so much for joining us.

1:50:22SpeakerAnd the kids that were having, getting the cannabinoids reacted so positively to it that the people conducting the test hit an ethics wall and realized that they could not go forward, not giving the other children what was obviously helping the other half of the study. And anyone can look it up. I can't remember which one it was off the top of my head. Right. So that was... And Shulam tells that story.

1:50:43SpeakerYes. That was... And Shulam's study... In Israel, and what they found is, what they were trying to do was to reduce nausea in children, in young children that were getting chemotherapy. And as you know, getting chemotherapy is horrible, and getting kids is even worse. They found complete control, and so she switched it to an open study and just gave all the kids cannabis oil and found that, yeah, it completely blocked nausea that was- Can you put a link of that in hashtags when you get a chance, Mark?

1:51:19SpeakerI know I've read it. I can tell you when I first got into this industry.

1:51:28SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:51:47SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:52:09SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

1:52:32SpeakerAnd it's in cars and everything. And as we turn from that and we all start to change the way that our cars are built and the ways things move, Virtual water and essentials will become the future of wars. And I could unfortunately see this, us having, finally getting our say and finally getting to a regulated state and they're becoming these political agendas and wars between synthetics and natural plants.

1:53:03SpeakerAnd we might be up against a whole other generation, a whole other wall of Thank you for joining us.

1:53:28SpeakerWe see that, you know, the placebo effect, I think, works both ways. You know, I've seen people completely convince themselves that nothing's going to help and they kind of live in pain and suffer. And I've seen, you know, people who, who knows, maybe it's the wanting for it to be successful, you know, For me, it doesn't really matter because if they're taking something that's non-toxic and safe and good for them and it works, whether it's the placebo or not, their quality of life is improved.

1:53:53SpeakerBut you're absolutely right with these children that we primarily focus on. They don't even understand what's going on. I mean, they don't know that they're getting medicine for certain things. Silas doesn't necessarily know if he's having seizures. Excuse me. So, you know, there are some videos you can look on Silas's page of others. I typically post videos of my own kids, not the others we work with just for privacy reasons.

1:54:17SpeakerBut there's one on, if you go to Silas's story, there's the cannabis rescue nasal spray that we make. We've completely been able to give up using Ativan and different benzodiazepines as far as rescues. And that's what a lot of people don't realize are given for these seizures. You know, they're rectal injections of heavy doses of benzos or they're sublingual, right? So you're chewing, literally chewing pills of Ativan or they're a medicine called Versed, which is another benzo sprayed up the nose.

1:54:46SpeakerAnd just so we're clear about benzos real quick, the hardest type of patient out of all the ones that we see are the benzo recovery patients, the ones trying to get off benzo because it destroys GABA receptors. And these are a whole other group of receptors that I can tell you that cannabis, when used in someone that's been on benzos for a long time, can have a very… Thank you so much for joining us.

1:55:36SpeakerBefore we get away from it, you really intrigued my attention with your thing. So you have a rescue inhaler for epileptic children? Can you talk a little more about that? Well, yeah, it's not magic. And there's some guys, we've been threatened to be sued because some companies are really excited about selling this life-saving drug to families, which I think is ridiculous. So excited that the fact that We make one.

1:56:02SpeakerIt has nothing to do with theirs. And donated to free for families. They're afraid it's going to cut in on their profit margin. Or worse, have us just educate families that they can have some access to making some of these things themselves if they don't have a good company who's making one near them. But essentially, the concept you talked about as far as putting the sublingual dose for seizures, we found was effective, and we use that a lot for children.

1:56:29SpeakerThere are some videos going around with kids, and I know that family, they're a good family, of rolling it on the feet. I like to try everything. I didn't see in my own experience any efficacy with that sort of, and there's nothing in my understanding of biology and how the body works that would be able to get it through the epidermal layer, through the brain in time to do that, but We won't go into that, but essentially we just want to get it to the nerves as quickly as possible.

1:56:54SpeakerAnd there's some nerves, there's nerves up there in the brain, right? That you can get through via the nose. So essentially we took a 0.1 ml sprayer, right? And we just, we dosed it out at about five milligrams THC per 0.1 ml spray. And we just used the thinnest oil we could find. And Tony and I have had this talk, and I know it's being worked on.

1:57:16SpeakerThe real advancement in this is going to be when we get some water soluble and more appropriate sort of ways of getting it in there. But we just simply using a thin oil, defractionated coconut or something else, we're able to then use a spray. And I have a video. I can't share it. For those of you watching on YouTube, it won't let me share links. But I can share it for you guys here, I believe.

1:57:40SpeakerThere it is. Of Silas himself using it. And on average, it's 20 to 45 seconds max. And the grand mal stops. And for Silas, that's really important because even though we've lowered his seizure totals down from about 2,500 to about 12, the seizures he does have are still pretty intense. He doesn't breathe. Yeah, go ahead, Marcus. And so... We've got to end them as quickly as possible because he turns gray and is not breathing.

1:58:09SpeakerAnd what we do is, for us, we just hit two sprays in each nostril, and the seizures stop. So here it is. So this is Silas. This is a seizure that he's having at his respite care center. And so that's a myoclonic spasm right there, what you see. Silas has these hybrid seizures. And there are these hybrids of myoclonic and complex partials. So you'll see his arms jerk up and his body tense, and then he wants to kind of run.

1:58:37SpeakerAnd the reason it looks like they're holding him is because, well, they are, because he'll run, and he's not really conscious, and he's at high risk of injury. So there's a myoclonic spasm. And then when it clutches him, then it goes into a tonic-clonic seizure. So luckily you can't hear it because the sound is horrible. He screams and does these horrific screams. But even in his care center, these are nurses, they have been so impressed with the...

1:59:02SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:59:18SpeakerAnd right there, if you can't see the clock, but I start the clock and it's about 20 seconds and the seizure stops. And without that, we also, yeah, you can't, the sound really changes too. You can start to hear him breathe, which we can't hear here. And the intensity decreases, and within about 20 seconds, the seizure completely stops. And, you know, it saved my son's life. And this is where I try to say we've got to strike balance.

1:59:47SpeakerYou know, if your only business model is a life-saving medication, I mean, there is such a huge marketplace out there to be threatening to sue people and to want to price gouge something that is literally only used to save lives. Kids lives. This is something, you know, last month on Hash Church we talked about. I think it's a real, I think it's a real moral and ethical challenge.

2:00:09SpeakerWe're going to have to decide what do we want to do? Do we want to be one of the greatest forces for good and social good along with taking advantage of all the other entrepreneurial opportunities or do we want to step into the same trap? Thank you so much for joining us.

2:00:43SpeakerYou know, this is, so that intranasal spray is something that I've seen work extremely well for grand mal and tonic-clonic seizures. So for those who are, have kids who have different types of clusters, clusters of tonics, clusters of myoclonics, for some reason we haven't seen it be Thank you for joining us today.

2:01:18SpeakerYou're absolutely right about the addiction of those benzos and the change of the endocannabinoid system. And it's horrific. I've watched kids have to withdraw off of these benzos to go into the spasms of just withdrawal. Like you're watching Trainspotting, but it's this four-year-old child who's been addicted to phenobarbital and others. I mean, it's just a miracle. Yeah, you'd never give your child those drugs again if you ever saw that.

2:01:45SpeakerThat's why when we talk about... Like my journey when I started with accidents and oxycodone, I tell that story every time. And as an adult going through it, it's tough. As a child, it's inhumane. Shame on us. They don't know the difference. And you're causing damage that at the end of the day, you don't get back. And so I think that this should be our first priority of trying to help that 1%.

2:02:17SpeakerThat's why I liked working with you when I first met you. We saw eye to eye and you also were also a shadow inspiration of why I tried to develop that the water suspension with the rosin coming from the plant because I was trying to find a natural oil or natural way to suspend it in a liquid that we could get into what you were talking about.

2:02:46SpeakerRight. So the efficacy of those sort of products are going to skyrocket through the roof when you figure that out. And I'm glad you mentioned that. I didn't want to mention it for you. But seeing some of the work you're doing with that, to me, as a caregiver, as a father, and as an advocate for cannabis medicine, I mean, it's extremely exciting because I know firsthand the good it's going to do is that starts to get refined and nailed down.

2:03:08SpeakerIt's going to be amazing. What's the concentration again forced in the spray? Could you repeat that? So it's important to understand that just like any wonderful, what's wonderful about cannabis is that can be a little different for each person and we can adjust that as needed. We have kids who are too sensitive to THC that we've actually seen some benefit of lower THC and other CBD and cannabinoids.

2:03:29SpeakerBut I would say the most common concentration that we found to be successful is somewhere around five milligrams per spray. So You know, the math on that, I think in a 30 ml bottle, 0.1 ml sprayer, it's somewhere around 1,500 cannabinoids in the bottle, if I'm correct. If someone's wrong, I'm sure they'll correct me. But yeah, you can do the math there. I believe it's about 1,500 milligrams THC in a 30 ml sprayer, and it's 0.1 ml, and you get hundreds of rescues out of that.

2:04:02SpeakerI mean, you're doing 0.1 ml at a time. 1,500 milligrams is 1.5 grams. That's probably not right. Right? Did you say 1,500 milligrams? Yeah, 1,500 milligrams. Yeah, 1,500 milligrams in 30 ml. That comes out to about 5 milligrams per spray. Wow. That's quite a dose. Okay. Well, everything we do is quite, and that's why, I mean, the creams we haven't gotten into, but I work with a lot of kids with a condition called epidermolysis bullosa.

2:04:31SpeakerAnd if you want to, you know, really get bummed out, but understand what suffering can look like, you know, look up these children with this condition. You should show it. It's literally coming off, you know. Just show it. Just show it. It's necessary. I think they should understand what you're talking about. Sure. I'd have to share my screen here.

2:04:53BubblemanOr send me the link and I'll do it.

2:04:55SpeakerSend it to Bubbleman. Okay.

2:04:57BubblemanI've seen these videos. These videos made me cry.

2:05:00SpeakerSo we make a topical, right? And everyone's making topicals. But yeah, this is rough, man. We're not screwing around here if you want to get into this. I'm going to apologize right off the bat.

2:05:15Etienne FontanKevin, no need to apologize. People need to see the reality.

2:05:18SpeakerBut this is... There's the link there. This is... They call them Butterfly Kids, and you can skip through. You want to skip to maybe about 20 seconds in if you start to play that. And what it is is these children and... These children, their skin doesn't form the proteins to keep your skin layers together, right? So we all have layers of skin. These kids' skin doesn't develop the proteins necessary to keep them bound together.

2:05:48SpeakerSo what happens is anytime they bump or scratch, they slide on one another and it starts the blistering process. And as the blistering process happens, the layers of skin peel off, right? Anywhere that it's touched or bent, it peels off. And what you're seeing here is their bandage change. They have to change their bandages daily in order to keep The infection out and these kids, this water is bleach water in case anyone understands.

2:06:15SpeakerThat's how much they have to work with these kids to help keep infections down. And they typically die of staph infections or skin cancer because of the damage to their skin constantly. These children live like perpetual burn victims, like they're burned in boiling oil until they die. That's it. That's their life. And what they're being given is topical ketamine, topical morphine, Dilaudid, and they're just trying to ease their suffering.

2:06:45SpeakerAnd there's an appropriate place for some of those medications, obviously, when you get into this level of suffering. But what we found is that By using topical cannabis applications, we're actually able to deal with the pain more effective than the topical ketamines, but we have the extra bonus of cutting out the inflammation, which is allowing their skin to heal more quickly. And all of the kids that we're working with, with epidermolysis bullosa, have now stopped all of the topical ketamines, not because it sounds cool and they just want to, but because they're no longer necessary.

2:07:23SpeakerWe don't know what quality of life these kids can have if we can help their skin heal more quickly. And what we're seeing is that as they're not on these other medications, their whole immune system is beginning to function at a better rate, and they're having a better quality of life. Now, cannabis isn't going to cure the protein that causes this horrific condition to happen, but what it will do is allow them to have a much better and healthier quality of life and heal much more rapidly.

2:07:52SpeakerAnd the topical that we have to make for them, which is what got me to brought it up, I was making it until we saw and felt we had efficacy. Because we're a donation program, I wasn't looking at the bottom line. I wasn't looking at our profit margin. And I got the test results. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:08:31SpeakerIf this were on the market, you know, it'd be somewhere around a $650 or $700 two ounce jar of cream. And I'm having to send these families eight and 16 ounce jars because they're going through so much. So there's not really, if we're applying those prices that the market is based on the prohibition level rec market to the medical needs of some of the people who I feel need it more than anybody, We're immediately bankrupting or pricing those families out of being able to get it, which is why I feel that charitable models need to and have to exist.

2:09:03SpeakerIt's not an option of just, well, they could get it if they wanted to. We need to have the ability to serve these people. And I think if we did that as a community, that's how we're going to get to see the social change in the community, see the level of good we can do as an industry. Show them what the cream has done, though, because that's also just super profound, like, You showed me the pictures of...

2:09:29SpeakerThis was our first time we hung out, by the way. This is how deep you and I went. Forrest and I, we went way deep into how we can utilize collectives out here to help these kids. And the cream that you showed me that you guys made was unbelievable. It was like... The cannabinoid-based cream. Give me a second. I'll find it and pull it up. Just give me one minute.

2:09:55SpeakerBecause that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about where it's a breakdown. If you're applying those type of drugs on the outside of the skin and it's breaking the immune system, they never have a chance to heal. They never have a chance to even make it. So creating a cannabinoid-based natural product that can help their immune system and help with pain by not... Like benzos are bad.

2:10:19SpeakerThere's just like nothing I can say that's good about them.

2:10:22BubblemanListen, when those like 300 plus pound football players were telling us, listen, the worst thing I had to go through was the benzo withdrawal. Out of everything that the guy has been through, the guy's like a tank and has been demolished for his whole career. And the thing that he's saying is the worst by far is benzos and they're giving those to children?

2:10:46Etienne FontanYeah, but look at those conditions. I mean, that's the most extreme conditions that these children are going through if you can't even hold your own skin on. I mean, that's a whole other level of concern. Fucking God bless you, man. Seriously, Forrest. Hey. For doing what you do. I know once, I mean, it drove me to further cement what I do once you see the effect of positive change that you can affect.

2:11:10Etienne FontanBut thank you for taking it to the next level for these people. And Yeah, we need more people like you in the world.

2:11:35SpeakerIt brings us back to our whole discussion today, why we need standards in our conversation. Because when you understand the level of desperation, the level of illness your grow might be going to or your product might be going to, it'll really open your eyes to the ethical implications that we're talking about. Until we have some sort of grading system as to what type of product we're making, To me, everyone has to be held to the highest standard because you don't know who it's going to end up with.

2:12:01SpeakerAnd let me share with you what some of these cannabis patients look like. And I think it's going to be an eye-opener for a lot of people.

2:12:11SpeakerBear with me as I'm looking up these pictures and I'll get them to you guys here in a second.

2:12:16BubblemanNo problem. Take your time. You can screen share once you've got them up. Gives you quite a few options for choosing a photo and whatnot. Pretty... Pretty in-depth conversation today. Nice to see last few hash churches. Not that they haven't been great. I always look forward to these real conversations that go deep and can kind of open our eyes to what Forrest just mentioned, the implications of putting cannabis out there as a medicine and who it may end up with.

2:12:49BubblemanYou might want to... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:13:11Etienne FontanI don't have children, and I never will, but I can't imagine as a father like you and others who have children, Dr. Sheldon, et cetera, or much less you, Forrest, you wouldn't even have known this or be exposed to this or wouldn't have affected that change if it hadn't have been for the unfortunate reality that was cast upon you. And thank you for not just sitting idly by and just watching the train go by.

2:13:38Etienne FontanThank you for creating a whole new set of tracks and putting a train on it and fucking running it around and stopping at the next station.

2:13:46SpeakerWell, it gave me a really unique insight that was just different, you know, into the cannabis medicine world, you know, and I felt like it was an insight that once I understood the science, I felt like, one, it didn't have enough of a voice, and two, there Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:14:22SpeakerAnd, you know, that's something that when people hold on to these old ideologies that are prohibitionist and cannabis is evil, that's what I'm talking about when I say we have the moral and ethical high ground. If you have an education and understand not only the nature of the suffering that's going on, but how beneficial these plants can be.

2:14:43BubblemanAbsolutely. You know, it makes me think of all of these cannabis cups. You know, it makes me want to say like the next time a cannabis cup comes around, instead of entering it, Tony, I think that we should just donate what we would have entered to something like this. And if more people did such things like each time a cannabis cup came around, for instance, imagine how much cream these kids would have.

2:15:06BubblemanEven from one single cup, if each person decided to donate their Their entry to something like this. This is as real as it gets. It just doesn't get any more real than that. It is a good idea, Chuck. It is a good idea.

2:15:26SpeakerWell, the whole Collagious Network is meant to just be that, to be a platform to just give the cannabis industry and those people who are in it for their business but also want to better the society around them, to just give them a platform to do it. My belief was that people want to and are. They are helping through their businesses. They are helping through their work.

2:15:49SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

2:16:11SpeakerAnd that's where I saw was a gap that I could fill with a truly charitable nonprofit organization. And we really talk about ourselves as a children's organization, not a cannabis business. We're a children's organization who happens to advocate and serve children and families who to no fault of their own Thank you so much for joining us.

2:16:57SpeakerYou know, California, imagine a father and someone who's going through this and you're telling him, well, I think this is, like, I would love sessions to be able to talk to Forrest. Yeah. Literally say to him how evil it is and how it does no good. I'd be like, this would be an interesting sit down and showdown, you know, because it's... You know as well as I do, Tony, he would sit there and just...

2:17:20Etienne FontanAbsolutely just the nods and absolutely give him whatever you think you want to hear. And he's a politician, a pandering son of a bitch. That's the reality that he would face. And as much as I would love that reality as well, because there's no way any type of human or especially a parent sees that and sees what Forrest is doing. Could any anywhere look them straight in the face and lie to them is unheard of.

2:17:48Etienne FontanBut, you know, as well as I do, those politicians are well practiced at that.

2:17:53SpeakerHis oxymoron is good people don't use marijuana. Yeah, right. Ooh, wow. Well, yeah, so that's why. That's our cop. Do you have those photos, though? Do you remember? Yeah, when I had to email them back to myself, for some reason they were on my mobile devices, but I'm pulling them up right now, so I've got them coming right. Because I do want to show people. Yep. One second here.

2:18:24SpeakerJust when you think you have everything ready. Let's see. Downloads.

2:18:33BubblemanYeah, how could he say that? You know, that's someone who's got to make a little video of like some of these kids with their element and using cannabis, clearly getting relief with that guy's voice in the background saying good people don't use cannabis. Right.

2:18:47SpeakerForrest, what's your website? Do you have a website you direct? We have... Yeah, we have the caladriusnetwork.org, and that's C-A-L-A-D-R-I-U-S. You know, really, I'm just kind of a volunteer organization. It's mostly me. So it's not super fancy, but it kind of explains what we want to do, and I'm going to be building that to help our business partners and things like that get credit for the work they're doing.

2:19:10SpeakerAnd really, the model is just allowing businesses to help, and then us helping We're able to then make it.

2:19:40SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

2:19:56SpeakerOkay, so I've got some pictures. For us, it seems that a lot of us that are affected believe in spreading the healing around and not trying to hoard it and sell it in little chunks to other people. It's almost like an obligation, I feel. Once you've been really healed and you see what cannabis can do for people, you really feel a need to tell other people. It's just...

2:20:22SpeakerI saw waste. I mean, I'm in Northern California. I mean, I know people who compost enough trim for me to save or help or improve the quality of life of 100 kids, right? So it's just about, it's also about awareness, you know, kind of like we have this thing now where if you grow your hair out really long, people realize, hey, don't just throw that away. If you cut it, you can donate it to kids with cancer, right?

2:20:45SpeakerTo make a wig. We kind of have this understanding. That same concept should be in our cannabis conversation as well. Do you have a system set up where people can donate organic cannabis to you? California is illegal now and there's a lot less that anybody has to worry about. So it's not legal in California. This is part of the law. It's actually illegal to not make money at this point.

2:21:06SpeakerSo the tax implications alone make it really hard to donate because I'm on the hook for state taxes anytime a donation is made. But again, when it comes to the lives of these kids, we're doing it anyway. And I'm not shy about that. We shouldn't have to break the law to help save these guys. And I got these pictures ready that Tony wanted to see. So I will share my screen here.

2:21:32SpeakerWell, if someone, maybe I won't. There it is, screen share.

2:21:42SpeakerSo, oh great, I can just pick. So this first picture is, this is one of our kids that we're working with. His name is Charlie. He is an absolute adorable young man. Yeah, let's see. Did he come up there?

2:21:58BubblemanYep, he's right on your page.

2:22:00SpeakerYeah, excellent. So this is Charlie here. He's got epidermolysis bullosa. And this is actually after we've been working with him for a while. Now, what I want to show you is we were just trying to help modulate pain. So she sent me some pictures of his... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:22:43SpeakerAnd I kind of want to show them side by side. So I'm going to pull up my desktop here. She sent me this picture here that's now on the left along with this one. So this one here is when we started. And it's not just the wounds that are horrific, but it's the size of the swelling in his knee. It's about like a softball. It had been that way for about seven years.

2:23:06SpeakerWithin five weeks, the swelling had completely gone down to a normal size knee here on the left. Thank you for watching.

2:23:30SpeakerThank you for joining us.

2:24:00SpeakerYeah, yeah, about five in a two ounce jar. So it's about it's around 100 milligrams per ml, I think. Right. So in a two ounce jar, there's about 5200 milligrams of THC. Then we supplement with X amount of THCA. And then there's CBD and CBDA in there as well. And we also found, and this is just through experimentation, that once the cream is cooled, we reintroduce some of the terpenes.

2:24:29SpeakerSo some of our extractors are now able to isolate those terpenes for us. And we just micro reintroduce those terpenes back in. And we found a significant boost in efficacy when that happened as well.

2:24:46SpeakerNow I have these photos. I'm going to grab a couple more here. Just bear with me one second.

2:24:51BubblemanHey, listen, Forrest, people are donating all this money, so I'm going to need to either A, get an address or a bank account or something like an email address to send it to you because it's like already like $200 plus, maybe close to $300. Oh, that's one.

2:25:06SpeakerYeah, thank you guys very much. All that goes into the infrastructure here of just being able to buy the creams and get the medicine made for the kids. I'm going to show one more set of pictures for you guys, which I thought was really, really powerful. And I wish I had the current ones with me. Next time we're on, if we want to do an episode where we can even talk to some of these kids or families, I can show you more.

2:25:28SpeakerBut here's, let's see, screen share, and I'll get better at this as well. There we go.

2:25:42SpeakerOkay, so, well, hold on a second.

2:25:53SpeakerSo what you see in this picture here is one of the places that crease the most. Come on, screen share. Work with me. One of the places that crease the most is around the neck, right? And unfortunately, the first picture she sent, she had already put the cream on. But there was a wound from just under his chin. And then it was completely, completely split under his arm or under the fold where his neck folds.

2:26:18SpeakerAnd then they had to tape shut the wound here. And This is when we were just trying to work with modulating pain and the mom sent to me five weeks later, no, no, no, I'm sorry, three weeks later, she sent me this picture because she went to change his bandages and she couldn't believe that how much better the wound looked and how the majority of the wound had decreased.

2:26:46SpeakerSo this here is three weeks later, this picture here. Right? So it's hard without being able to see side by side. Maybe we'll do the whole screen. But when you compare them side by side, you can see whole... You can see the difference, Doug.

2:27:03Etienne FontanYeah. If you want to put them side to side, I mean, it's... Wow.

2:27:09SpeakerRight. So you can see where the entire, just a matter of a couple weeks, right? This whole wound where the bandage was has completely closed. The red and nastiness, the inflammation had gone down and the wound eventually started to close. This wound also had been there for seven years because it was in a place where, you know, they couldn't, they couldn't close it. So anyway.

2:27:33Etienne FontanI cannot imagine the thought of actually having to tape my kid together. Dear God.

2:27:39SpeakerYeah, the bandage changes alone. So this is, again, it's just about perspective, right? If we're introduced to who these cannabis products might be going to when we label them as medicine, we understand why we're sensitive about things being oversimplified, while we're sensitive about things, about false hope potentially being given for those who don't really understand the complexity of the endocannabinoid system and cannabinoids and what they can and can't do.

2:28:04SpeakerWe just get protective, and that's not saying that cannabis isn't amazing. I wouldn't work with it if it wasn't one of the most amazing, effective compounds that I've ever seen in my life. With that being said, if you're starting to work with cannabis as a medicine, and because you're growing it, you're going to have some patients you're going to go help, it's not a game. You need to understand what you're saying and be really careful about what you're promising or the claims that you're making.

2:28:31Etienne FontanAnd this is why we test and use science, because we don't want that type of mistake. That's why we started this in the first place, because we couldn't see that mold that gave us an infection that made us realize there's more to what we're not seeing. We saw a lot, don't get me wrong, you can see a lot regarding your cannabis, but What you see visually versus what we can now see with science is now night and day.

2:28:56Etienne FontanAnd it has changed everyone's perspective and it will further. And this is where the responsibility has to be that you have to pay for that testing. It has to find credible labs and do these things proper. Fuck, I love you, Forrest. You're amazing, man. Hey, thanks. I just think that, I mean, I can't imagine how those parents must feel, but also as helpless as they must feel at the same time, because they're reliant on you and a small batch of handmade medicine and access.

2:29:25Etienne FontanI mean, what a fine razor's edge to walk.

2:29:30SpeakerWell, this is why I say for now, right? And meeting folks like you, the things that I've already learned from Tony and you guys and others, as our understanding grows, what I feel is if I just keep shouting it and we keep working together, the cannabis industry has the potential to be the greatest force for social good that we've seen in any of our lifetimes. Now, that doesn't mean to just be dramatic.

2:29:52SpeakerPut it in the context of what we just saw in the work that I see every day. When we start getting the large businesses that are able to understand and participate in this, we can become the industry that can now offer the greatest amount of suffering reduction to those who need it most. That we've ever seen. I can't think of anything in my lifetime that I could compare it to as far as hands-on, beneficial, immediate impact in the lives of those around us other than programs like Shriners Hospital and other things that are some of the most charitable organizations on the planet.

2:30:25SpeakerCannabis has the ability to rival that with the right people and the right vision and just a little know-how. We have the ability to be as successful as we want as entrepreneurs while at the same time doing things that we haven't seen in our lifetimes to benefit, you know, catastrophically ill, terminally ill kids and people. So that's just, that's my soapbox and I'm going to stay on it as long as I can because I've seen firsthand the benefit of it.

2:30:53BubblemanAs you should. And the audience is happy to fund it. The Grow Green shows donated $20. Got a donation from Mitch for $50. Aaron sent $20. I think that might be Danish money. I'm not too sure. Mitch, yeah, sent $50. There's a whole list of people I just wanted to give a little shout out for offering. Thank you, guys. Lois Lane sent $20 sterling. Big love to Silas was the message.

2:31:20BubblemanTiernan sent $100 US through PayPal as well as Shane sent $5 through PayPal initially. And yeah, every little bit helps guys. Don't worry about any little bits that might be taken by PayPal or YouTube. I'll cover the entire donation. Whatever you donated, I'll send to Forrest and nothing will be lost. And everyone will feel a little bit better about themselves for A, being humbled by these images and the realization that obviously lots of people have it worse than us.

2:31:50BubblemanAnd so when we realize that there's a real value in helping in the human experience and we think it's acquired through the acquirement of stuff, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:32:27SpeakerLike yourself and what Todd has done as far as the patients go. And then I want to put these children in their hands. I want when the mothers are crying and thanking us, I want it to be on their shoulders because that's an addicting high as well. When you start getting that feeling of holy crap, it's one of the best feelings in the world. And if I can share that with as many people as possible, Then you can, you know, when you can get that dopamine release from doing amazing amounts of good in your community, you know, that to me will, can make a change.

2:32:57SpeakerThat to me can make a change that can spread. And, you know, we'll see. We're at two years on this, this Colladrius Network project and things are growing exponentially. And I can't wait to see where we're at in 10 years, you know. Absolutely.

2:33:13Etienne FontanMuch respect, man. My mom started an organization called American Council for Blind Parents because my brother was born without eyeballs and needed access to information because there was no information out there for the blind. Congratulations, your child was born blind. So I watched in my household it grow to an international organization in 40 countries in the span of one year. Wow. Because, you know, it catches fire because of, you know, oh shit, people didn't realize how really, you know, blind affected so many people in their lives.

2:33:49Etienne FontanMy father was born blind. My brother was born without eyeballs. So it's normal for me to have that in my life or to have that experience. And so it forced my mom into a realm of being an activist because she started to get calls from all around the world saying, hey, my child's born blind. I need resources. I need access. Right. That's what happened to me. So thank you for taking and not only, you know, creating your torch, but holding it high for others.

2:34:19Etienne FontanAnd in time, the American Council for Blind Parents was absorbed into the National Federation for the Blind and things like that. So thank you. That's what happened in 10 years. It was just absorbed into a larger national organization, which may now help, and it helps everyone. So now anyone who has a blind child can call and have access to. So I wish that success upon your organization so that so many other people around the world can get access to that medicine as well as that knowledge to it.

2:34:47Etienne FontanSo I hope that catches fire. I appreciate that.

2:34:50SpeakerI appreciate that. I mean, that's that's kind of what happened. And that's why I'm here with you guys today is that is I got more active and use my son as an example. So it gave me a platform. More and more families started coming, you know, saying we need this. We need this. We can't find it. I mean, I get more calls from anywhere, probably out of Washington state because the way they've designed their laws has been a real challenge for them to get access to real medicine.

2:35:12SpeakerSo it's just Thank you so much for joining us.

2:35:35SpeakerThe cannabis community is full of some of the most amazing people I've ever met in my life, which only fueled me to not allow them to be demonized any longer.

2:35:44BubblemanWell, let's shout a few more of them out. Ozzy just kicked down 20 bucks. Donor Montreal just kicked down 20 bucks. BioTorch just kicked down 20 bucks. John Quixote just kicked down 36, Ed 209 with $4.20, NY Oler with 20 bucks, Oiler, Dallas Big Plume with 20 bucks, Lois Lane with another 20 sterling on top of the 20 sterling she sent earlier, and Drew Roberts with $20.

2:36:09BubblemanThank you guys. This will all get to the people that it's supposed to go to, I assure you. It's great to see the platform be able to be used in a moment for something like this that is good. It makes me feel good.

2:36:26SpeakerI want to point out that back in 1995 when I started the San Diego Compassion Club, it was simply out of me coming into direct contact with people that were sick and needing it as a medicine and looking for it. All we ever did was redistribute donated cannabis to people who needed it. And anyone listening to this can also do this. It's really not that hard if you know people that have it and they're willing to give it to people that don't.

2:36:56SpeakerYou can be a middleman and help these people out. And a lot of times the people I was running into at normal meetings and through Jack Herrer and doing the initiative, You know, there was a woman that had a young son that had cluster headaches that was shutting down his life. And she had no access at all to cannabis. And, you know, how are you going to sell this woman cannabis?

2:37:17SpeakerYou know, she's already on a limited income. You just want to help her child. And, you know, that's what is what caused me to start a bigger club because it was, you just can't deny helping people once you're in a situation of being helped by cannabis. That's how I feel. So everyone listening to this could become their own compassion clubs and trying to help the people around them.

2:37:41SpeakerIt's really a natural act of community.

2:37:45SpeakerYep. Yeah. Just, you know, take the time to know what you're talking about. Don't sell false hope, but stick to the science and it'll do itself. You know, it'll, it'll, it'll work itself out because, you know, again, cannabis medicine is, is amazing. If you're responsible about it, it's very safe to go about if you're dealing with clean tested product. And we're lucky enough with the Caladrius Network where We have labs who donate the testing.

2:38:11SpeakerSo everything we get in, we get donations, we produce the medicine. It all goes into labs and it's all lab tested, which has allowed me to do a whole bunch of science and experimentation that others haven't had access to because we're able to have access to virtually unlimited testing. Those sort of things have been a real benefit and it's really just about the cannabis community as a whole coming together.

2:38:32SpeakerAnd they have not just... Hey, Forrest, let me also offer my consulting services for free. Hit me up if you need me for anything. Oh, I will absolutely take you up on that. Yeah, thank you so much.

2:38:47BubblemanNow you can push send on those 42 emails you had made up for Mark Sheldon.

2:38:57SpeakerThere you go. I could probably help you in your testing and your formulation. Oh, no doubt about it. Yeah, just having access to people with that level of understanding and education to help pick their brain is an amazing resource. We're out here. I mean, yeah, this is what I hear a lot. I see a lot more sort of, I won't call them legitimate scientists, but people who are embarking now in the cannabis industry because there are careers to be had that can support A young, you know, family and, you know, you could actually have a career now in the cannabis industry and be doing quality science and help, you know, make these standards accessible.

2:39:45SpeakerAnd I think the thing is, you know, you don't look at companies like Bubble Man's company or Tony's company. Companies aren't products. Companies are people. And so the human element and the human part of that equation is really, really important. And so everyone who's watching and all the people who want to get into the cannabis industry, you know, there's a lot of needs for jobs. I'm going to be probably hiring between...

2:40:17SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:40:47SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:41:15SpeakerJust being curious and looking to develop themselves by absorbing this huge quantity of literature that exists. One of the reasons why I was stuck before about the nomenclature of the molecules, Forrest, is because being a chemist and growing up with chemistry nomenclature, we name molecules based on the structure of the molecule, not based on what receptors they bind to. That's just a happy accident that they all find the cannabinoid receptors.

2:41:48SpeakerWhen I look at a structure, when I look at CBD, yes, you can call CBD tetrahydrocannabinoic acid or tetrahydrocannabinolic acid, but I can draw the molecule on a piece of paper I don't care what humans try to call it. It's that molecule. That's the molecule, right?

2:42:11BubblemanI want to say that I think you've got about 500 bucks donated right now.

2:42:15SpeakerHoly cow, I didn't even know you could donate through this show.

2:42:18BubblemanI'm having a hard time. Thank you for joining us.

2:42:41BubblemanAnd, oh, THC, sorry, Growers Guild also was in the chat and they said they would love to donate some THC-A if it would serve a purpose for you. It's already been lab tested. And I believe Todd McCormick will be the interface for that to happen. Oh, wonderful. Wonderful, thank you. Shout out to the Guild for offering that. Much thanks, guys.

2:43:05SpeakerWe got a question on YouTube. If I could talk about the grow an extra row. So I thought I'd just say it real quickly. One of the things that I've been trying to do is just change new ways we can have a charity charitable, you know, programs within the cannabis industry. So it's a cloud years network this year up in Northern California, we launched our, our two for tots program.

2:43:24SpeakerRight? So I was like, how can we take advantage of people who already have paid the money to have the infrastructure for their grows, for their business, and just make it easier for them to contribute? So this year we had a whole bunch of genetics set up when we launched a two for tots program where people who had organic farms and organic grows could come pick up CBD or medically beneficial genetics, throw them in their already existing garden, and then not have to do anything but really water them and keep them there to be able to then donate back at the end of the year.

2:43:55SpeakerThat's gotten us some attention up here because it was something different. But we have flyers everywhere out here for our Two for Tots. So this year we've been blown away. Probably had 50 volunteers sign up to take a couple and then donate them back to kids. So we're looking to expand our families by tenfold within the next year just because of how much people have responded to wanting to help.

2:44:14SpeakerSo it's been really overwhelming. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:44:36SpeakerThank you for joining us.

2:44:59Etienne FontanThank you for pointing out that dichotomy about the 501c3. And that's one of those realities we've had here is, you know, as not for profits here in California is that, you know, we can't get that 501c3. That's a federal certification people. So that... We can't as medical cannabis dispensary or any kind of medical cannabis or cannabis anything. You can't get any sort of certification from the government until that changes to the federal level.

2:45:26Etienne FontanSo that's why we have to act as not-for-profits. But you're a father who's just doing anything that he can. And as the pictures have shown quite dramatically, you're getting results. So happy to support and happy to see you get the support that you need.

2:45:44SpeakerI appreciate it. Yeah, you know, cannabis, you know, we started the conversation today by not making false claims, but I don't think it's a false claim at all to say that cannabis medicine has the potential to literally save lives. I mean, there were people that will be alive because they have access or will not be alive because they don't. And, you know, we just want to make sure that not making false promises that if you get access to cannabis, all of a sudden you're going to be cured.

2:46:07SpeakerIt's not magic, it's science. But by having the option, we can make sure that nobody ends up Thank you so much for joining us.

2:46:34BubblemanNice. You know, that's happened to me like 20 times today. I'll have a point and I'll be like, okay, this is super easy. I just have to hold this point. Oh, what did Mark say? Oh, shit, it's gone. Oh, what did I just say? I think it's why we constantly, more than anything, just want to interrupt and talk over each other. It's not because we're rude. It's because we have the memory of a chickadee.

2:46:57SpeakerIt's time for boner.

2:46:59BubblemanIsn't that what that means? Oh shit, and welcome to D420K to the room. My God, I think he's been... Sorry, D, we've been in the heavy conversation. I haven't even been able to say welcome.

2:47:09SpeakerWell, you know what? I jumped in on that conversation and Forrest was talking and I seen the pictures of that boy and stuff and it put tears in my eyes that... This guy is doing what he's doing out of the goodness of his heart. I couldn't interrupt with a fucking bong rep. I know. I will. Amazing. Thank you, man. I'm amazed at what's going on and I'm so proud to be even just sitting here on the panel listening to you, man.

2:47:35SpeakerIt's inspiring and it just makes me want to do more and more. That's amazing, buddy. Thanks.

2:47:41Etienne FontanHey, thank you. Bong rip for the kids.

2:47:44SpeakerThere you go.

2:47:46BubblemanYou know what? It really also reminds me, I want to say this thing that Justin Trudeau, our prime minister, just keeps saying over and over and over and over again. Is that we need to protect the children and why would I ever like for us to sit down with Justin Trudeau and tell him exactly how cannabis can protect the children and the children do not require to be protected from cannabis.

2:48:10BubblemanThat's it.

2:48:30SpeakerThat's it. You have to show it to them. And I've sat down with the head of the BMCR, Lori Ajax. We've had this discussion here in California so that we can look at, you know, when we start to talk about charitable models in late 2018, I want to be involved in that to make sure that there's something that I feel is doable and appropriate. And as well as with our state assemblymen and senators, you know, here in California, we have some some good forward thinking senators and assemblymen.

2:48:57SpeakerBut a lot of times they don't hear even they don't hear this aspect because a lot of the lobbying is based around business. And again, I don't have a problem with business. My concern is just when it dominates the conversation so much that we don't even get a chance to talk about some of these other applications and some of these other opportunities we could fold into the cannabis conversation.

2:49:16SpeakerSo um yeah i'm i that's our you know that we have a hashtag online that we've i've got parents to start that's called make them watch you know they have to see it if people are going to have outdated ideologies that put people's lives at risk they shouldn't be spared the consequences of that and i highly encourage parents to film their kids suffering or adults to film what they're going through and people should have to see what that actually looks like because until we do our human brain's not really designed to be able to really empathize you know but when you can really show it to them and put it in their face It helps them make better decisions.

2:49:48SpeakerAnd we actually have some assemblymen here in California. I've been very fortunate. I was just down meeting with them this Monday for an advocacy day who want us to come back and potentially have a bipartisan look at legislation in 2018 that will be like a charitable, catastrophically ill, terminally ill child protection act. That will make it so that we can have donation models to protect some of these kids from exploitation in the market and so that they don't have to go without because of the way Alma and 64 is framed in its tax structure.

2:50:22SpeakerSo yeah, I'm making them look, I'm making them watch, and I'm trying to push as hard as I can to give somewhat of a voice to this small percentage of cannabis patients. Sorry, I need to interrupt this as well. I see all the people donating in chat that just like, as soon as this was starting to talk, I was listening to it as soon as I jumped on.

2:50:46SpeakerAll of you guys are amazing too. Yeah, unbelievable. The way this all comes together and how it works, like, it's amazing, every one of you people. Good for you. Good for every one of you. Thanks. Yeah, it definitely wasn't on my mind when we started talking today. I didn't even know you could do that through YouTube.

2:51:04BubblemanNo, it fell together for me as well, just noticing it. And, you know, we got to shout out a whole bunch more people here. Tiernan, who kicked down 100, Shane Foley with 20, Jacob, Linda Wright, Greg Greenhow, Ashley Brotherhood, David, Brian, I'd say we're getting upwards of the $600 or $700 range now. So really great, great guys and gals. Thank you so much for that. It's nice to see the platform not only be used to share information, but also for the emotion to be transferred and received and sent right back through the donations.

2:51:43BubblemanVery, very cool.

2:51:45SpeakerCompassion is fucking incredible, you mother lovers out there. I got to go, though. It's Italian days on the commercial drive here, guys, and I'm out. We're going walking and enjoying up to 300,000 people on the road today.

2:52:01BubblemanOh, definitely not driving my car down there today.

2:52:04SpeakerNo, but all you people out there donating and for us, you're an inspiration, man, and all you people donating, I really hope we're going to do the same thing right up here in Vancouver. Let's get on it. Let's get on it. It's amazing. It feels good. Well, for those of you listening and those of you who have influence, you know, my whole dream with this is that this is a chapter sort of platform.

2:52:26SpeakerSo as we build the platform to help businesses get involved, I want to see it be, my goal is for other people who are responsible enough to run it, then start chapters in their area so that local communities are all helping kids in their local, you know, in their town and close as opposed to an organization that is nationwide. So hopefully someday we can, we can talk about that.

2:52:46SpeakerLove to be a part of something like that. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, guys. God bless, brother. God bless. Passion, peace, and love. Peace, everybody.

2:52:55BubblemanTake it easy, D. That was quite a shirt he had on for those of you that noticed. It was funny. You'll have to go rewind the video. I'm not going to actually mention it. I'm not giving it away. We're not having a whole conversation about it, but that was quite a shirt that D had on. I will say that. Good guy. Well, what do we say? We've got 650 viewers.

2:53:20BubblemanWe've been going at it strong for three hours. Did Tony never make it back? I thought... He was having some problems. His computer died and then his internet was being wonky too. So I'm not sure if he's going to be making it back.

2:53:34SpeakerI have a question for Forrest and it's how much do you also look at hemp seed oil and the EFAs as a potential solution? Are you familiar with the film Lorenzo's Oil and the true story behind that film? So I'm familiar with it and actually it's your... Your talk and bringing attention to it that's made it more aware and something that I need to investigate, I haven't used it too much.

2:54:04SpeakerReally, until, you know, for those who know, Todd and I spoke earlier this week and kind of you giving the blessing on some of the products coming out of Canada really opened me up into looking at using it more because some of the things that we had for years, last time I checked, They just weren't trustworthy. I just didn't have a good feeling about some of them.

2:54:25SpeakerSo I haven't looked into it. Well, I've looked into it. I haven't applied it much in our work. And since we talked last Monday, I've already been beginning to do some research on some of those companies out of Canada to see if we can get some efficacy increases by using that as some of our carriers. I'm going to start with Silas first and see... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:54:56SpeakerWell, you know, the story behind Lorenzo's oil became pronounced to me because one of the women that contributed to the Emperor Wears No Clothes, her name was Dr. Roberta Hamilton. She was a nutritionalist at the University of Los Angeles, and she was the one that brought much of the nutritional information to Jack. And in a sense, it's how it made its way into the Emperor Wears No Clothes.

2:55:19SpeakerShe was also the one that pointed out to me that I should watch the movie Lorenzo's Oil because it was based on a true story and what it really was was parents giving their children a combination of canola oil or rapeseed oil and olive oil and essential fatty acids in it were basically helping the child's condition. It's now referred to as Lorenzo's Oil and it has proven You know, to help in some cases, but now a study just came out like 25 years after the film or whatever, and it's showing that a doctor went off into the direction of seeing if the EFAs would work as a preventive medicine in children that had a predisposition Thank you for joining us.

2:56:21SpeakerAnd why she brought this up to me is because in the movie, Lorenzo's oil is depicted in that it's like a mystery. They're like, ooh, the oil has got some magic in it, you know? But the reality, she said, is there is no magic. The magic is really the essential fatty acids. It's just we know so little about them at the time. And she was explaining this to me in 1994.

2:56:43SpeakerSo I have to date her saying that back almost a quarter century. And the reality is now we've learned so much more. If you Google omega-3s, you learn a lot. And what she was pointing out is that nature combined these oils in hemp seed oil in the perfect ratios for long-term human consumption. And she was like, and the fact that hemp seed oil is a perfect protein and has your three most essential fatty acids, linoleic, linoleic, and gamma-linoleic, she was like, in perfect proportion.

2:57:17SpeakerOkay, protein and oil are two different things. It's amazing. Todd, protein and oil are two different things. You're right. It's essential oils, but The proteins are consistent of the amino acids. Your proteins are right. The hemp seed is a wonder. It's by every definition a superfood. You've got to remember, the seeds making the oil is part of what's called the lipid bilayer. All the lipids and waxes are basically part of this thing called the bilayer, which has to do with essentially the cellular walls of most plants.

2:57:55SpeakerSome of them are cellulose, but in this case, what you have, again, is that, like you said, there is a particular, so all of these fatty acids are hooked to a glycerol molecule, and you could have very number of different fatty acids on the molecule, and what you find, you're absolutely right, is like, steroidonic is the one that I think Sam has made reference to before, but there's like four or five of these Long chain polyunsaturates that you don't find in anywhere else in the human diet.

2:58:32SpeakerI mean, this is like the place to get it, you know? And so, yeah, absolutely. It's like, it's a superfood. It qualifies as a superfood because it has stuff that there's, it doesn't, there's no other counterpart in it. The biggest point was, Dr. Roberta Hamilton's biggest point was that we don't need to wonder if we all start consuming hemp seed oil. She was like, it will benefit us all because what she pointed out is that most people are malnourished because they started processing our food in the 40s and 50s and every single bit of it went for shelf life.

2:59:08SpeakerAnd she said the one thing that we didn't realize we were doing was we were killing off these very fragile EFAs that have been crucial, essential, if you will. All of them and our well-being. And, you know, up to the point of refrigeration and dry storage, she was like, you've got to realize our food changed dramatically in the last half of the 20th century and not for the better.

2:59:35SpeakerAnd, you know, she initially made the point that when she first got hemp seed oil, she thought someone was playing a practical joke on her because it had like five times as much gamma linoleic acid as a fish. Thank you for joining us today.

3:00:11SpeakerThank you for joining us.

3:00:42SpeakerYeah, you can get it at Trader Joe's, I think. And Whole Foods. Why I point this out to people is because if in smaller doses it's helping people with medical conditions that are extreme, it could help people maintain their health a great deal. This is a way to stimulate your endocannabinoid system without having to smoke or consume cannabis. Yeah, it's I think that that's one we talked about earlier as well.

3:01:11SpeakerYou know, when we talk just to bring this conversation back full circle, we talked about we were talking about cancer, how these other things that people do with their diets and with with exercise. But those as well have been found to be the best ways to boost your endocannabinoid system. You know, that aren't supplements, right? The exercise helps anandamide levels in the body. The change in diet, your diet affects your endocannabinoid system.

3:01:33SpeakerIt's just, it's great to hear a conversation that is talking about the full spectrum of ways it can be influenced and how important each one of them are as opposed to just a hyper-focused approach of a supplement, you know. Yeah, well, the biggest piece of those molecules of the endocannabinoids is the eicosanoic acid, right, which is the long-chain fatty acid that's related to the arachidonic acid metabolic pathway.

3:02:02SpeakerBut again, this is a ubiquitous compound, but by supplementing your diet with it, you're basically giving Your body more of the precursor to make anandamide. Makes sense, right? Totally makes sense to have a diet rich in eicosanoic acids. Yeah, I've got a whole other line of questions I want to get into with you, Mark. Maybe next time, because I know we're getting low on time. Yeah, we've got to spread our content.

3:02:31SpeakerBob and Pam will get pissed. If we have a major core dump this time, we need to, like, yeah, two weeks from now. Natural flow. There you go. Next time we'll get into the variability. Yeah, we've got to have a slow week, because it's the summer and people are doing shit. People check in. I mean, not everyone's at church. That's the great thing about Hash Church. I mean, you never know when it's going to be a sleeper episode with just a couple people or, you know, you provided such wonderful content here, Forrest.

3:03:01SpeakerThank you. Not just as a parent, but as a well-informed advocate and being able to help people understand and navigate the 280E hole of charitable organizations, which, again, unfairly penalizes this industry for Like, imagine if they did that to the alcohol and tobacco industries. There would be outcries. I mean, so, yeah, this is just, this madness has to end. Well, here's the question for us. If they get rid of 280E, and maybe, ATN, you can comment on this.

3:03:36SpeakerDoes 280E end the chokehold that they have over those charitable organizations?

3:03:45Etienne FontanWell, 280E is one thing. It's more of the federal law. 280E doesn't have an effect on what charitable organizations can be or be certified as. However, 280E does affect. Yes, it could be. And it's being worked on at the federal level because it's very draconian, very against the realities. But as well as banking, the inability to bank is still relevant. Thank you for watching.

3:04:27SpeakerI guess 288 has, 288 of course has its parents. Trying to attract major investment from people who need that credit on their tax bill. And again, if this was any other industry or any other cause or any other thing, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But because it impacts cancer and because it impacts epilepsy, I mean, this thing has tentacles all throughout cancer. Human health. And it just, to me, it would seem that we could somehow bring this case to the government as being the first thing they have to do is get rid of 280E.

3:05:06SpeakerIt completely penalizes the industry. It penalizes Forrest's organization. And it really ends up penalizing ourselves for no reason whatsoever. It was the drug kingpin law so they couldn't write multi-day junkets down to Miami off On their cocaine IRS bills, you know, I mean, or their airplanes or their cars or their weapons, nothing to do with the legalization or medicalization of cannabis, but it's had this unintended horrible effect that, you know, has really stymied growth in the industry.

3:05:44SpeakerYeah, there's no shortage of hurdles to get over. I mean, 280 is a nightmare. But Prop 64 in California, the one that legalized it, didn't help us much either. I mean, some of the biggest changes we need to make for a charitable organization to exist Thank you so much for joining us.

3:06:28SpeakerYou know, for forty five hundred bucks to the state, you know, that we would have to come up with. And some of those things have to be I mean, it's rough. There's some numbers there. But, you know, it's just some of the tax implications alone make it impossible. It's a long road, but we're going to keep chugging away at it.

3:06:42Etienne FontanYeah, I have that issue too because I give away to free medicine to 200 patients a week that don't meet the low income realities of what it costs now that you, congratulations, you have a medical condition now, you have to now go take care of your other medication as well as You know, you're cannabis now. So the people that meet that low income, they're in danger. And so, yeah, so we're working on lobbying on that issue too.

3:07:06Etienne FontanSo we're kindred spirits in that one because I never want to leave those people out because it's crucial that, you know, there are just times. Look, I've been poor. I've been homeless. I've been on the street before. I've, I know what it's like. I have had that reality before and that's why I've never forgotten those realities and don't want to ever not be able to send that elevator back down.

3:07:27Etienne FontanAnd this is a frustration that we do have and we're working on in Sacramento, but we need more steam to that without a doubt.

3:07:34SpeakerWell, keep me in the loop, man. I'm happy to meet you down there and join you in those efforts for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, well, they need to work on this in Washington, D.C., and that's why I was happy to report I was at a client's facility. It's one of the eight licensed grows in D.C., and literally blocks from Jeff Sessions' office. There's licensed operations growing like it stinks like Denver, you know what I'm saying?

3:08:04Etienne FontanWell, the problem is, I don't know if you've realized, there's some sort of circus going on currently in D.C. that's kind of really shifted any kind of focus, including 280 and all these other realities.

3:08:17SpeakerWe said it here months ago. Bernie should have been the president.

3:08:21Etienne FontanWell, we're enjoying the circus full hand and unfortunately it's affecting the realities of the banking issue, the 280E and all those things because of the Inability to have leaders lead as well as we can go down and talk ourselves blue in the face, we're still staring up against a thousand plus other lobbyists for the pharmaceutical, the alcohol industry, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So your work is very much before us.

3:08:51SpeakerWhen I'm in Portland and Seattle and obviously Denver and San Francisco, but really great to see the genie out of the bottle. Two blocks away from the Washington Monument, the White House, it's just, I don't know, maybe it's just, it's the East Coast, United States, it's a different place than West Coast. There's no In-N-Out Burgers, you know, it's just, it's a different place, you know.

3:09:18Etienne FontanI lived in D.C. for three years. I can't imagine what it must be like because of how draconian it was there, but I'm glad to see that there's some smells of change afoot.

3:09:30SpeakerYeah, well, I liked how basically the D.C. City Council told Congress to go fuck themselves and rolled out the program anyway.

3:09:38Etienne FontanWell, that's because Congress has told the city of D.C. to go fuck itself since its inception, so, you know, it's a gift take, man. I learned way too much about that politics, and it's really fucked up in D.C.

3:09:49SpeakerThe people who run D.C. are awesome. They're doing a great job down there. They really are.

3:09:54Etienne FontanThey're doing the best they can with what they're given, man, and Congress doesn't give them much. Okay.

3:09:58SpeakerHey, and like I said, there's fields of hemp now growing in the great state here in Pennsylvania. We have operations that are being put into Maryland. So there's three strongholds right there on the East Coast here in the Mid-Atlantic. It's going to spread like wildfire, guys. It's going to be, you know. Just wait, it's going to be great.

3:10:24BubblemanWell, yeah, while states get opened up, you'll see the rest of the world jump on the bandwagon too.

3:10:31Etienne FontanYeah, they planted hemp as well as in Washington State the other day. Well, so you got it on the East Coast and the West Coast. So, hey, middle America, you've got some work to do.

3:10:41SpeakerYeah, it's like, but every state has got a bill. I don't think there's a state without a bill. Maybe, I don't know. Is there still a lawsuit between Kansas and Colorado? Did they throw that out?

3:10:54Etienne FontanThat was an appeal that just happened regarding that, that allowed the RICO statute to move forward for the individuals, but not allowing the states to enjoin because the states were not directly impacted or injured. So that's where it's been narrowed to the individual farmers who are suing. These individual farmers are suing a legal grow next door stating that the scent is illegal because marijuana is illegal, so therefore marijuana shouldn't be growing there.

3:11:29Etienne FontanAnd that just went through a federal appeals court, came down literally this week stating that. So the state has appealed its ability to enjoin, and so the states were kicked out by the appeals court, but it is still allowing the individual to proceed with that.

3:11:50SpeakerAnd that's where we are. Yeah, it just seems like a bunch of waste of court time, a bunch of waste of lawyer time. It's just a waste of taxpayer money.

3:12:01Etienne FontanIt is, no doubt about it. But at the same time, this is the desperate lengths that people are going to. And the abuse of, you know, RICO standards or things like that have a potential to damage, if not shut down the U.S. industry, if not dealt with and the appeals level. So now this will, of course, be appealed, but now we have to wait for that appeal to take place.

3:12:25Etienne FontanI have to get in the picture. You see yourself here? Oh, there's the man.

3:12:30BubblemanHey, what's up, buddy? You're on TV.

3:12:38SpeakerHe's on TV.

3:12:41Etienne FontanMust be summertime, huh?

3:12:44SpeakerHey, buddy.

3:12:47Etienne FontanYou're muted.

3:12:50SpeakerOh, yeah, he is muted. I was muted. Yeah, he's been wondering what I'm doing back here. I said, well, come say hello.

3:12:55BubblemanIt's like I'm talking to the computer.

3:12:57SpeakerYeah.

3:12:59Etienne FontanTo all the people. Hey, Silas. Good to have you, buddy.

3:13:04SpeakerYeah, it's great, man. Well, hey, thanks for having me on here today, guys. I appreciate it.

3:13:09BubblemanYeah, me too. Thank you for coming on and just opening the dialogue. When I saw Todd's post about cancer and how people misread it and then him coming back and you sort of being like, hey, this is a good dialogue. I was happy that you guys said, yeah, let's do this on Hash Church. I think it would be a great dialogue.

3:13:31SpeakerI just think it's important because I think the people who even read it wrong, it's that defensive nature. I think they feel like their heart's in the right place, but it's just... You got to understand it's just a much more nuanced and in-depth understanding that an experience level that brings people to say caution. I mean, it's like for me, it's the more I know about cannabis, the more caution I have when I speak about it and the less I'm willing to confidently say we know.

3:13:59SpeakerBut remember when those beginning years, when you first start to understand the science of it and understand how it works, it's really easy to be like, yeah, cannabis cures cancer. It's great. You know? You know, the more you work with it, the more you realize and that, you know, you hear the people who understand it the most. You wonder why they're so, they tiptoe around things or they're really kind of open-ended about it.

3:14:19BubblemanThat's why we start every sentence with what we know about cannabis today.

3:14:24SpeakerRight. It's because the more you know about it, the more you know it's like, well, none of this is absolute, but there are some great things that it does, you know.

3:14:31Etienne FontanAnd that's one thing, that's what I was wanting to talk about earlier when I lost my train of thought was that word cure. And I think that's also something that Todd and I have discussed and many people have had an issue is they say cannabis cures this, cannabis does this, and they... They throw that blanket statement out there, and I know they mean it well, but they don't realize the damage that it causes because, yes, it can help or it can assist people in curing themselves, but it is a step and a tool along the way.

3:15:01Etienne FontanTo say that cannabis cures this can be demonstratively bad.

3:15:09SpeakerWell, and you know, nothing's going to cure life. And I think that has to be a realiztic trip on this too, because we are just looking for ways to make our existence on this planet as comfortable and healthy and happy as possible. We are all inevitably only here for so long. We need to respect the life we have. We need to help others make it their way through it when they're less fortunate.

3:15:31SpeakerAnd realiztically, cannabis can help us do that. It can give us the medicine we need. It can help us with its oils and its proteins to be a preventive medicine that can give us the nutrition that can make us be healthy and not need the medicine so much. So if we look at this as a holistic approach, cannabis is the path to wellness. Yeah, you know, and it can be the factor that leads to being cancer-free.

3:15:58SpeakerYou know, it absolutely can. It's just, you will know once you start working with it and once you try it. And that's, I think that's different than selling it as a cure-all. But yeah. Well, hey guys, I appreciate you having me on. I got to get running here pretty soon. Thanks for having me on today.

3:16:13BubblemanYeah, thanks so much, Forrest. It was a real pleasure to have you on and share all these different stories and information. I'm going to be in touch really soon to A, forward people. There's still other people in the chat room that want to link with you and donate different things. And I'll go through these different ways that money came in and I'll try to get it all screenshotted and added up and send you a chunk through however you want to receive it.

3:16:39SpeakerAwesome. Yeah, I'll come on next time I'm on. We'll talk about how it got put to use so that those people know exactly how it went to these kids and how it, how their donation helped because it takes a village and with all the folks helping, it just, it allows me to do more for those kids and those families and that's what it's all about. So thank you.

3:16:58Etienne FontanAbsolutely. Thank you for humbling us with your presence and your pictures and your stories as well as, you know, what you're doing. You know, we can't thank you enough. I mean, it's one thing to hear, it's another thing to see it. So thank you for making us all aware and enlightening us to the possibilities and what's really, you know, a whole other level of medical cannabis.

3:17:20SpeakerOh man, the honor and pleasure is all mine. I look forward to seeing you in Sacramento soon.

3:17:25BubblemanAwesome, guys. Well, next time we'll have to invite Wade back on as well. I miss having Wade on. He's got some good vibes and you guys are great together. So everyone else that came out and spent their time with us, all the 600 to 700 people that watched live and, of course, the regular panelists from Etienne to Todd and Mark and Skunk Man and even D420K and Johnny B who left a little earlier and, of course, Tony Verzura.

3:17:52BubblemanWho shared a bit of time with us. Thank you guys for sharing your time with us. It means a lot. I know that it means a lot to people every Sunday to tune in and to learn this stuff. And I know this episode in particular is going to be one that gets shared a lot. So yeah, thanks everyone for being a part of it. And we'll talk to you next week here on Hash Church.

3:18:14BubblemanPeace out, everybody. Bye, folks.