Reflections on the Cannabis Industry and Personal Stories

0:05BubblemanAll right, just waiting for YouTube to go live here.

0:07SpeakerAnd we are.

0:11BubblemanHello, everybody. Bubble Man here. Welcome to Hash Church 5.0, episode 14. We have now done, well, holy shit, three and a half months of Hash Church nonstop. So really appreciating that. Just going to start letting some folks in. I'm going to change Mr. Skunk Man, Sam. Give him his name. There we go. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening to you, Skunk Man, Sam.

0:52SpeakerHowdy, howdy.

0:55BubblemanNot sure if... Oh, that was my phone actually going off. How you doing, buddy? I'm alive. Well, that's amazing. I am so appreciative that you're alive. If I haven't told you lately, it makes me very, very, very happy that you're alive. And yeah, you've helped really shape and change my life in a big way. So I appreciate you, Sam.

1:18SpeakerWhat is this show number 14?

1:21BubblemanThis is show number 14. Yeah, just the two of us in here so far. Everyone else is a little slower this morning. Usually you see quite a few jump in at nine o'clock. No special show today. No special guests. I kind of just invited a schwack of people. Didn't really have a plan, but I figure we'll still have a nice little hash church. We've got, oh, let me see what we got here in the room right now.

1:46BubblemanI think we have, well, there's 46 or 50 people. I have been having some technical difficulties, but hopefully that'll go away here. Can you see Sam I.M. has been playing billiards? Oh, I just noticed that he had his pool stick up there. Is he a shark? Does he go in and pretend he's not very good and then just utterly destroy the people that he plays?

2:11SpeakerYeah, he can usually run five or ten games in a row.

2:14BubblemanOh, shit. All right. That's what I like to hear. That is what I like to hear. Well, yeah, nice week here in British Columbia gearing up for snow on the mountains. We've had, oh geez, I don't even know how many centimeters of snow have fallen on Whistler Mountain. I think we're supposed to get another close to 100 in the upcoming week here. So we're getting a really good base.

2:36BubblemanIt's very excited for me because I'm just, you know, happy about the prospects of snowboarding again this season.

2:46SpeakerWade Laughter has been writing me emails saying, And we've been in communication. And when I go to California in January, he's going to come down and visit with me.

2:59BubblemanThat is awesome. I think that is really awesome. And I'm envious because I would also like to visit.

3:05SpeakerWe're actually going to the Cura Leaf Laboratory in Davis. I am. And I'm interested in the haploid cannabis work that they're working on. But what's, it turns out that Diana's brother lives close by Sacramento and Davis. I mean, maybe an hour away. And Wade Lafter lives 16 miles from her brother's house.

3:40BubblemanReally? Really. Well, we'll look forward to seeing Wade today. Maybe you guys can talk a little bit about that. And that sounds awesome. Welcome, Colin. I didn't think you were going to be in at 9.03. Maybe you got that skylight shot or?

3:53Collin PalmerNo, I'm looking at it right now. It's going to be for another day, I think. You got a tarp over it or something? No, I talked to a guy. It's like two inches open right now. It'll be fine. I just, you know, it's going to rain tomorrow. I've got a bunch of equipment underneath it. I just cleared it out. It was like an early morning epiphany. And I said, you know, It's really testing me today, you know, like this thing is like an ongoing dilemma, but, you know, opening and closing a window shouldn't be that difficult, right?

4:26BubblemanSo life is full of side missions. That's what I've noticed. It's all like a video game. You know, you just want to get the key to open up the chest, but then you got to like go down this hallway and find the secret door in order to get the, you know, the secret clue that leads you to where the actual thing that will lead you to. It's just this endless fucking barrage of side quests, which is fine.

4:48BubblemanI'm kind of, I'm just, I'm accepting of it at this point in my life that it's just like, all right, so if I want to get something done, it's never A to B. I got to go like A to like 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, 8.4 before I get over to B.

5:03Collin PalmerYeah, I mean, well said. I mean, it's, yeah, as I get older, I'm like more, I mean, I've always been this way. I'm completely comfortable in the unknown. I kind of love it. It's like, it makes me feel a bit freer to be content with that. And I encourage others to follow that because it's, yes, exactly.

5:24BubblemanMan, I spent the last like week and a half to two weeks just sort of Dreaming about Courtney Pollack's stories that he told us on Hash Church. I can't remember if it was last week or the week before, but that shit was mind-blowing, dude.

5:40Collin PalmerYeah, I mean, he he I didn't get to ask him about how he start how he stumbled upon the technique he created, you know, the the folding. Yeah, the folding technique. That was one thing I was I went into the conversation was like, I'm going to ask him about that because that's you know, that's a really unique thing to stumble upon. And then, you know, to hone in on and then make your whole career about around it.

6:05Collin PalmerIt's amazing. It's like it's Thank you so much for joining us.

6:22BubblemanHe's so humble too, the way he told the story. And I remember he was just like, oh, you know, I just, I was trying to think and I just thought, oh, I'll just do like geometric foldings. I'll just fold it in half and then fold it. And I was just kind of like, holy shit. Like it's anything that you do, right? If your passion is there and it's able to fuel and love what you're doing, then it's not really, you know, if you don't like it and you're just doing it because you have to do it, I just don't think you're going to find yourself in the same place.

6:51BubblemanI mean, maybe it's possible, right? You make this weird little mistake and you have an epiphany. I'm sure, you know, look at Sam when he's talking about, you know, watching dude in Africa, like just grinding the material down and then, and just being Sam, like what other person wouldn't have said anything? What other person wouldn't have had to be like, validate their epiphany in that moment and tell everyone, but Sam bites his tongue and he's just like, oh, just, you know, I'll just think about that for a while.

7:18SpeakerI just wanted to tell you too that, yeah, I patented that folding art.

7:24BubblemanOh, fuck. We knew that. We knew that. That was probably 1963, like five years before Courtney even got on the boat.

7:32Collin PalmerWe'll send you some royalties through crypto, you know? Yes, exactly. Exactly.

7:38SpeakerI got a crypto payment, I don't know, a year or two ago, $5,000 for... An FTP that I helped a company create with skunk. Now it's worth 13,000 euros.

7:55Collin PalmerDamn. One of the lucky ones. A lot of people came in there with googly eyes thinking they're going to become billionaire and left with a dollar.

8:07SpeakerWhat's funny is that Mojave did it. I think he already sold it. Rob Clark was offered the same deal and he didn't do it because he didn't believe in crypto. I didn't really believe in crypto either, but I figured, you know, I could do this in a day and then I'll get 5,000 bucks. So if I want to, I could have sold it then, but I didn't and I still got it.

8:41BubblemanYeah, you definitely still got it. Oh wait, we're talking about crypto? You got that too.

8:50BubblemanWhat's up, Wade?

8:53SpeakerIt's a good morning so far. Trying to get my shit together, then I'll get the light turned on, or the camera turned on.

8:59BubblemanAh, the infamous trying to get my shit together. I was doing it myself this morning, Wade, I'm not gonna lie. I do that every day. Fuck. Just trying to get your shit together is, that's one of the most honest things that was ever said. Today, I woke up a little late. I usually like an hour, you know, just have a full hour. And I was like, I went to bed really late.

9:21BubblemanSo I woke up at 830 and kind of popped up and went in and was like, oh, the chat's not working. And I'm like, oh, this isn't working either. And this isn't working. I'm like, holy fuck. I got like eight minutes before I have to go live. So I had to reboot the whole computer, shut everything down, you know, restart it, kind of open things up and see.

9:41BubblemanI've just been having a weird technical glitch where the chat just stops. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you next time.

10:07BubblemanJoseph Houghton saying good morning. Lord Sav's like, what's up? David Bryden, crypto might get a jump in January. So it's an interesting aspect to follow the chat, but it definitely makes it harder for me when I'm, say, trying to maintain if, you know, if one of you guys are speaking, I like to go into the view and change it to speaker. So it just shows you while you're speaking.

10:27BubblemanAnd so I run all of those things manually while I'm reading the chat and listening to you guys and trying to put in my own opinions. And of course, getting high on bubble. It's it's fun.

10:38SpeakerI never look at the chat, hardly ever. My wife does it all the time.

10:44BubblemanShe's in there all the time. It's mostly just people blowing smoke up your ass, dude. It's nothing you need to see.

10:52SpeakerI heard that smoke up your ass gets you really high.

10:56BubblemanWell, it depends on the smoke. If it's that CBD, it's mostly just going to reduce inflammation.

11:05Collin PalmerInspired me to get in the chat here. Yeah, I always saw that. I forget. And then I'm like, oh, yeah, there's all these people that are out there, you know, that are in that are participating. And that's, you know, that's what it's really about is. Is that right? I mean, it's it's bringing the community out in the rest of the world into this place that allows us to talk to one another.

11:30Collin PalmerBut, you know, one thing I'd love to do is see if the chat has any topics that they want to cover. If there's anything in there that you guys are thinking about.

11:45Collin PalmerBut yeah, I thought the last show was really good with having, you know, the celebration of life, but also, you know, one thing takeaway that I walked away with that I didn't, that I often think about is that the band itself, you know, It has created a platform for other artists to utilize their own expertise and work. And that conjoined collaboration, I think, is unique because it's what set the tone for where everything's at today.

12:23Collin PalmerAnd it's really fascinating to me that as much as things have changed, not much has in that realm. You know, I've done a lot of live visuals for artists and it sort of happens the same way. It's just like you show them the work. You're like, this is what I do. This is what I've been doing. They're like, sick.

12:41SpeakerThis is amazing.

12:42Collin PalmerYou should talk to, you know, Tunde about doing this for the next show or we have a new release coming up. And it just happens. Like this stuff just starts bubbling to the surface. So I think... It was really great for him to share that experience with him through the band because they've allowed so many artists that we all love to become... R. Crumb is a great illustrator that did Europe 72.

13:08Collin PalmerI don't know if anyone in the... The audience here knows our crumbs work, but he's an incredible illustrator that was a San Francisco staple and actually didn't even like the dead. Like he was all upset that they used his work for the for their album covers. And but through his work and his artistry, you know, developed a visual language, which we all today still very much hold on to is very dear and true to our hearts.

13:37Collin PalmerSo it's just a lot of like It's such a big conversation and you could go into so many nooks and crannies, but they've touched so many lives and so many careers in ways that I just really commend them as entities, individuals, whatever you want to call it. Because it's really, again, it set the tone for where it's at today. It's really beautiful.

14:01SpeakerI wasn't there last week because I didn't want to say negative things about the Grateful Dead and I'm kind of negative about them.

14:11Collin PalmerWell, you're not the only one, right? Like, there's a lot, not to take away from them, but there's a lot of people that share that sentiment. Like, there's a lot of people that look at Jerry Garcia as like a hard-nosed businessman, right?

14:23SpeakerIt's not that. It's that he used his money to freebase fucking Crack and Tanner White.

14:34BubblemanThe Brown. The Brown. This should be a good timing for you to be taking shots at Jerry right while Dr. Mark is coming in.

14:43Collin PalmerYeah, no, I'd love to talk to Dr. Mark.

14:45BubblemanPast church is about to get heavy. Did you hear that, Dr. Mark? Did you hear that?

14:49Collin PalmerDid you hear it, Mark?

14:51SpeakerMan. I said it, bro. Damn. Come on. I shouldn't say the truth, should I? No, you're actually mentioned in Grateful Dead lyric, right? That's Uncle Sam, that's who I am. Been hiding out in a rock and roll band. You know, they're, yeah. Well, I, you know, I like some Grateful Dead songs a lot. And when they were young, I think that, uh, Jerry was a guiding light but uh the last decade or whatever it was of his life he faltered quite a bit we're all human right yeah yeah well we and we all witnessed you know his decline you know um when you look at him just before he passed he was 53 years old he looked like he was 80 right i mean it's completely white and you The people who surrounded him, yeah, just didn't take care of.

15:50SpeakerBut yeah, we talked a little bit about this. He had the weight of this huge organization that needed to keep those revenues coming in with him performing. And that ultimately led to his undoing. And I think Phil and Bobby, they all recognize that in hindsight. But, you know, nothing lasts forever. And we shouldn't be sad that he's gone. We should be happy that he was here. The Beatles are still together, aren't they?

16:18SpeakerI'm sorry? The Beatles are still together, aren't they? Two of the Beatles are no longer existing on this plane, but whatever, yeah. I mean, you know what? If we could remember their music in our hearts, they'll never be gone, right? So, yeah, I mean, Frank Zappa is gone too. I mean... So many people are gone, right?

16:44BubblemanMost of the people that have ever lived on the earth are gone.

16:48SpeakerThere's a very finite amount of us left here. But when you think about that whole like rock and roll generation that kind of grew up after the 1964 appearance of the Beatles, On Ed Sullivan, right? So how many rock and roll bands started because they saw those four young lads from Liverpool on the TV having a great time playing, you know, two guitar, one, you know, set of drums and bass.

17:13SpeakerYeah, Beatles were just great, man. They have such an incredible songbook. The fact that like Dylan is actually still alive and still around and still touring is incredible. Thank you for joining us.

17:36SpeakerOut there, still doing.

17:40BubblemanIt's special, man. I'm telling you, I went to the last Stones concert. It was like three or four months ago I went to a Stones concert. He was literally like a couple of months away from being 80 years old. He never stopped running the entire time. He was just running over this gigantic stage. And just to see... The way they hit the nostalgic boxes with just a simple, like it's unbelievable, the most simplest of chord progressions and you're like, the hair on your neck stands up.

18:11SpeakerI can still remember 50 years ago, I was in Hollywood and I went to a party where the Rolling Stones were there and I met them and I was shocked and surprised how small they are.

18:25Collin PalmerI spoke the same way about fish, to be honest. When I was like hanging out with Mike Burton, I was like for the first time I was invited to like a jam session. I was living in New York City. You get invited to these jam sessions and a bunch of people descend on a room and you just like all of a sudden show up and you're like, huh.

18:40Collin PalmerLike when you've seen these people on stages and around you for so long and you don't recognize that, you know, everyone's just a different height. And when you're on stages, you don't have the same depth of perception. It's really fascinating. It's

18:54BubblemanThe first show I ever went to, I was watching Baby Gramps open up for Fish in 93 with his long ass palindrome and his steel guitar. And I look next to me and this dude's filming on this old VHS camera. And I find out later when he gets on stage that it's Mike Gordon. And he stood next to me for the entire Baby Gramps show. I didn't know who he was.

19:15BubblemanIt was just a weird little dude that had his little... Video camera. And he was definitely a weird dude. Like he was like unique. You know, I don't say weird in a bad way. It was just like he was weird. I was and I was tripping, of course. Right.

19:28SpeakerHe lives right across the bay from me here. I could literally make a shout out to him. Right. Yeah. He's a he's a fixture here in Burlington. In fact, my daughter works at a restaurant in downtown Burlington. And Mike came in the other day and he came in like crazy. Close to closing. And he just stayed there while the restaurant was closing around him. And at one point, my daughter actually had to go, Hey, Mike, you know, we're, we're closing up shop now.

19:58SpeakerIt's time to leave. And he checked out or whatever, you know, yeah, you got to bounce. Oh, it's so cool. Like, you'll see page with his kids out at like Burlington events, like, you They had a outdoor jazz festival, outdoor music festival. I mean, it's just, yeah, I mean, they're here. They're, they're, they, they, they're, you know, in the area. And yeah, yeah, Colin, I mean, it's like when you, when you see them like in a, in a gig or you see them like one of those, you know, even like a smaller, like Mike Gordon gig.

20:32SpeakerI mean, those are like in theaters, you know, like Capitol Theater and stuff like that. And I guess, you know, It's just weird when you see them just like in a restaurant or a store or something. And you want to like go up to them and say hi or say thank you. But you find that, you know, most of your people just sort of leave them alone.

20:56SpeakerI shop, I just got back from the grocery store. I shop in the same grocery store as Bernie Sanders, okay? Like every once in a while we'll see Bernie there. And it's just like so weird because you just saw him on TV or something like that. Now you see him in the flesh. And to be quite honest, my whole geeking moment was like I had to look in a shopping cart to see what food Bernie Sanders eats.

21:20SpeakerMark, do you see Dr. John McPartland up there in Vermont? You know, it's so funny, Sam. When I first got up here, we had lunch together and we've been talking. We were talking about doing some collaborative research. But he got hit not hard with COVID, but around COVID, a lot of the patients that he was treating were having difficulty with insurance. And he was just kind of down on the whole thing.

21:52SpeakerAnd I'm not sure that he's like, Pro cannabinoid like he used to be. He doesn't seem, he seems like he's checked out, like he's totally like...

22:16SpeakerI mean, I know him really well. We wrote a book. Yeah, I mean, our common friend, Chief Seven Turtles. I mean, that's how, yeah, that whole, that whole body of literature early. I've been in contact with him also. Yeah, so, you know, the sad thing with John is that, you know, again, I have opportunity to do research. I have a faculty position over here at a local college, and we could continue doing research, but I've tried to reach out to him several times, including just a couple weeks ago.

22:47SpeakerWell, he is redoing the bug book. Rob didn't want to participate. He said he could use his pictures, and I helped with a whole bunch of references to keep it current and up to date, especially about viruses. But yeah, I told him I didn't want to commit either. I'd do what I could to help, but I don't want to be committed to it.

23:11BubblemanYou should be committed, Sam, and you know it.

23:14SpeakerYeah, well, that I agree.

23:18BubblemanDidn't we see John present at the ICRS in Leiden, Sam?

23:26SpeakerYes, absolutely true. Yeah.

23:27BubblemanYeah, yeah, yeah. Sitting in the front row with Skunk Man Sam while John presents on stage.

23:32SpeakerYeah. And the pilot's giving him shit because he was doing a presentation about his theory about that plateau being the center of cannabis in the beginning. And I gave him some shit because he doesn't have any really true, you know, thousands of year old artifacts that prove it. It's all Based on conjecture. Yeah, you know, Sam, it's interesting you say that because I speculate that that paper was not well received and that he's gotten some flack from that from the community.

24:12SpeakerAnd I think that's one of the other reasons why he's maybe shut down You know, he just, I wanted to collaborate with him. I wanted to, you know, use his brilliance and his genius. He's a brilliant, he's a brilliant guy. He's really a savant when it comes to cannabis. There's probably no one alive since Mishulam is gone that knows more about the plant than he does. He's really, you know, I mean...

24:37SpeakerAnd so many aspects, you know, he's an osteopathic DO, right? So he sees patients every day. And I think he's just completely overwhelmed with that. Yeah, he told me during COVID that he was completely overwhelmed and exhausted. Yes, yes, yes.

24:53Collin PalmerI think the whole industry feels that way, but he, you know, what I'm hearing from both of you is that we need minds like this. Like, we don't just want them, we need them, right? We need people that are Um, thinking about things in ways that others are not and to shed lights on things that are perhaps small doorways that could open larger pathways for us to explore.

25:16Collin PalmerUm, you know, it's needed, right? I mean, think about the simplistic way that hash traveled all the way to where it's at today, all the way that, you know, all the work that Michonne's done all the way to today. We have to continue this research and these things that, um, others that are not so fortunate to be alive any longer. We're doing, I mean, it's, it's, I don't know, I, like yourself, Mark, I'm super inspired by all of the work that's been displayed for us to, you know, ingest and learn from, but to your point, I don't.

25:47SpeakerI've said it about Michoon before on Hash Church, you know, if you want to know the man, Read his papers. And like John, John is an incredible writer, right, Sam? I mean, his some of the parts paper with Ethan Russo back in the day, a light bulb went off over him. I was like, oh, my God, of course. I mean, it just it makes so much fucking sense.

26:12SpeakerAnd the way John breaks it down. I mean, again, like when you read. When you read, Mishulam is probably the most stunning example of this. I've read every one of his papers. Some of them I've read multiple times. And you know the man. You understand how he's thinking. I really loved Mishulam. Oh, his writing. He came to Amsterdam and helped me with a science program. He was in my greenhouse walking around.

26:40SpeakerUh, sniffing the cannabis plants on the science program that we did for, uh, Netherlands, uh, TV station, Northern Lit. And, uh, then he, he came over and, uh, him and his wife had dinner at my house. So. I was pretty close to him. How cool is that? So, I mean, like, again, just not just about Mishum, just using him as a convenient example. If you want to understand the person and their convictions and their idea and where they were taking it, you read their papers.

27:12SpeakerSo it's kind of like, you know, like the two Beatles that have passed. John Lennon left an incredible legacy of music. Raphael Mishulam left an incredible legacy of chemistry. Roger Adams, an incredible legacy of chemistry. All these things are available and you could read there. You could read. Thinking when he wrote the paper, which is so... I've got them all. I know. Anything that's above my head, I used to ask John McPartland to explain it to me.

27:43SpeakerOh, now you can ask me, Sam. I do sometimes. Yeah, you do. That's right. Absolutely. But it's kind of like it's the science crystal ball. We can look, ironically, into the past and see the future.

28:01SpeakerHow cool is that?

28:04BubblemanThat's because time is an illusion and everything is happening at once. It's all happened.

28:10SpeakerI can remember when Mishulam was at my house, I asked him what he thought about the government in Israel. This was, you know, like 20, 25 years ago. And he told me that fundamentalists had taken over the government and it was run by Zionists. And he was not a happy camper about it.

28:37SpeakerShit. So I will. We weren't supposed to talk politics, right?

28:42BubblemanI will mention that we're going to stay away from that.

28:46SpeakerYeah, well, I'm not going to discuss it anymore. I just I was blown away how blunt and frank he was.

28:55BubblemanDude, he was awesome. Fucking cool old dude. I didn't get to meet him very often, but I definitely met him in Leiden that year and had some nice conversations and managed to... I don't often ask people to take a picture. I have met a lot of cool people in the industry and musicians and all sorts of cool people. I never really ask to take pictures unless they're my friends.

29:18BubblemanI'll be like, hey, if I saw Dr. Mark for sure, I'd be like, let's take a picture, dude. This is... Fuck, I can't believe we're like in the same room right now.

29:26SpeakerTen years later, we still haven't met face to face, Marcus. I know, dude. It's unbelievable, actually. I have pictures with Dr. Mishulam. I've never showed them to anybody, but I've got them. And also at Leiden, Dennis Perrone was there also. He was.

29:45BubblemanHe was, that's right. Yeah, there was a whole group of really cool people at that ICRS. That is definitely like I, you know, like not a lot of people in the campus.

29:53SpeakerAnd it was a half an hour from my house.

29:55BubblemanThat was also very cool. That was also cool. Chimera was there that year, and Dr. Mark Lewis was there that year. We had an interesting... An interesting group of people that we were hanging out with. Where is it next year, Sam?

30:11SpeakerDo you know where it is next year? Oh, you know, ever since Dr. Mishulam died, I, and also I've got health problems, so I don't go to their symposiums anymore. And I was a member for 30 years, but last year I dropped out.

30:34BubblemanThe times, they are a changing.

30:37SpeakerWhen I first went there, it was really all funded by the NIDA and it was the piss testers kingdom. But it all changed really fast when companies like mine and a lot of other companies like GW Pharmaceuticals started funding research for medical applications of cannabis rather than it being a drug of abuse.

31:07SpeakerWell, it's like a period where phytocannabinoids were the central focus. And now I think it's shifted over to endocannabinoids, right? Right. And also, too, when it started, it was the International Cannabis Research Society. Then they changed it to cannabinoid. Yeah. Yeah, because there's a lot of work that's presented that talks about Derivatives of anandamide, things that don't come from the plant at all and less and less content about what comes from the plant.

31:40SpeakerWell, I have nothing against that. We actually were the first ones to get a utility patent for anandamide analogs for controlling glaucoma and it works better than any other glaucoma medicine out there.

31:58BubblemanGo figure. Go figure. I always used to use that as one of the, you know, when I was explaining in the early days to people how they've kind of inverted You know, the positive to a negative with cannabis and, you know, the big red puffy eyes, right? Oh, you're gonna get stoned and your eyes are all gonna get red and you're gonna have puffy eyes. Well, the flip side of that is, oh, you mean you can reverse ocular pressure and save your eyesight from a disease like glaucoma?

32:29BubblemanYou know, it was the same with, oh, you know, he's gonna, oh, he's gonna, he's gonna... Get the munchies and he's going to have to go to 7-Eleven and buy a bunch of candy. It's like, oh, you mean he has wasting syndrome and he's not going to die from wasting syndrome because he can eat?

32:44SpeakerRight after anandamide was first, well, they extracted it from pig's brains in Jerusalem, but Then they were also making it synthetically. And I obtained a small sample of it. And we put it, we already had a program where we were examining the classical cannabinoids for controlling glaucoma. We had a program up in Finland at the Tokyo University up there. And we slipped anonymized in there, and it worked better than any of the classic cannabinoids.

33:24SpeakerThen we created a bunch of analogs and we found one that worked even better in that all the other ones had peaks and so they went up and down the control. Whereas the analog that we came up with, it gave a constant level set of relief, which is what you need for glaucoma control.

33:49BubblemanAwesome. Shout out to 818ZE who just sent me a picture on Instagram of him sitting on his couch with all of us on the big screen TV on Sunday mornings. He's watching the hash church. I wanted to tell a quick story about one of my first one of my first sales of bubble bags back. It was probably still in 99 and this is uh this is a kind of one of the wasting syndrome story a woman from virginia i believe she was from uh had found out about the bubble bags i have no idea how because most heady people didn't know about the bubble bags in 99 like if you found out about that you were pretty you had your finger on the pulse Thank you so much for joining us.

34:58BubblemanAnd she bought a set of bubble bags and she went on to the streets in Virginia and like found, you know, black market cannabis, which, you know, you got to acknowledge this woman was like, she couldn't just call up some high school friends and be like, hey, does Bob still sell weed? Like she went to the streets, bought some weed. She bought an ounce because, you know, it was the bubble bags.

35:20BubblemanEven then I was like an ounces. I don't know if you could only run a quarter. I think you should probably. So she goes and gets an ounce. It was an absolutely insane amount of money because it was 99 in Virginia. I don't know what she paid for it. Probably like four, four hundred dollars or something. And then she made the bubble hash in her kitchen with the bags.

35:37BubblemanAnd she I'm reading this in a letter that she sent me. She sent me a tear soaked letter. It was like it really let me know that I was on the right path. Thank you for joining us.

36:10BubblemanShe sends me this letter. She's like, so I made the bubble hash. I mixed it up with a spoon in the bags and I pulled the bags and I got the different grades and she kind of dried them out poorly, probably pressing the water out of it. And she says she gave her dad some bubble hash In his cob, corn cob pipe. He had a corn cob pipe.

36:34BubblemanAnd she said, I put a little bit of that bubble hash in his corn cob pipe. And you can kind of tell like the letters intense and it's kind of sad. And it's like, it's, it starts out kind of like my dad's not doing good. You know, he's got maybe a couple of weeks left and he doesn't want to go to the hospital. So he's at home at my house.

36:50BubblemanAnd she ends up telling me he smokes this bowl of bubble hash in his corn cob pipe. And, and 30 minutes later, He crushes an entire McCain's cake that she has in the fridge. And she's like, you know, to the prohibitionist, oh, oh, he had the munchies, right? It's a derogatory, like, it's like, let's look down on this fucking guy. But from the cannabis activist, fuck, I'm like tearing up.

37:19BubblemanLike this guy is going to live. He's going to extend his life. I mean, sleep and food. If either of those things stop, Death moves in very quickly. We need sleep and we need food.

37:31SpeakerThe same thing happened in San Francisco with Dr. Abrams helping AIDS patients and appetite stimulation with cannabis. It was a major push forward

37:45BubblemanIt was miraculous, you know, for people. And I don't think people can really understand. What do you mean you can't eat? Like, you're not hungry. Like, what do you mean? It's like, no, like, you can't eat. You can't put food in your mouth. It's not happening. It doesn't go down. It doesn't stay down. And so, you know, that was kind of one of my first glimpses. I had seen some pretty incredible shit at the Compassion Club prior to that.

38:08BubblemanBut like I said, I wasn't working there. I would visit and Hillary would tell me stories. But this was like, this one really touched my heart and my soul. And it really let me know that I was like, okay, like regardless of what happens, I am on the right path. Like whether this makes money or creates a success in the monetary business world, It doesn't matter because what matters is making the world a better place.

38:35SpeakerThat's a major reason why we focused on the minor cannabinoids, even though CBD is not a minor cannabinoid. We were the first ones to create a high CBD variety. And that was really to help the Brazilians and other patients in the world.

38:57BubblemanYeah, it's wonderful work. Anyone that's done it, it's hard not to get... Sort of sucked into that aspect as in the early days as a cannabis activist. I mean, we started as hemp activists and our whole focus was hemp because where we were, Manitoba, it was not the place to like, oh, let's try and get cannabis legalized for medical or recreational. It was like they were still throwing people in federal penitentiaries for cannabis in Manitoba.

39:23BubblemanIt was very much close to sort of the US regime's look on cannabis in the 80s, the 70s, 80s and 90s for that matter. But yeah, to have it kind of, Thank you so much for joining us.

40:03BubblemanAnd, you know, the people that were that Hillary had met in California through Todd McCormick. Those were the sort of inspirations, you know, and if you're kind of honest in your cannabis activism, it It just always, it always goes back to California. You know, it's like the center of the cannabis universe. You know, even up here, our Kootenays, which is kind of like our humble county, right?

40:28BubblemanThe Kootenays, it's this massive area that borders the Okanagan. It's above sort of Montana and in the US there. It was all draft dodgers from fucking California that bounced up to the Cootneys and became the freaks and planted their flag. And if you follow those freaks back in time, they came from California. Like the majority of them came from California.

40:50SpeakerIt was California, the center of the cannabis universe. Absolutely. Because they were importing from everywhere in the world. But then for a little while, for a decade or more, it was Amsterdam.

41:03BubblemanSure. Definitely Amsterdam was the place we could go and gather. There was still a lot happening in California and it always just seemed to like, you know, with everything that happened in Amsterdam, it never seemed to move past recreational. Like, I guess it did at one point. I don't know the year that Bedrocon started selling in the pharmacies. Was that in the 90s or was that in the early 2000s that that started, that you could buy herb at the pharmacies?

41:29SpeakerWe were the first one licensed in the world for medical cannabis research, our greenhouse facilities. And that was in about, 94. We had applied a year or two earlier, but we got permission in the mid-90s. So VendorCon was like maybe, I don't know, 10 years after that.

42:06BubblemanYour mic is off. I just noticed as I was yammering on, thank you, Sam. I wanted to give a shout out to Puffco. They hooked me up recently with, oh, with another Puffco peak here. One of the, this guy here, this little blue one here, super stoked on that. And they also sent one of their new pivots. I don't know if you guys have checked out these pivots yet, but they are absolutely amazing.

42:34BubblemanThank you for watching.

42:53BubblemanAll of these different ridiculous things. I saw that Wade. Shout out to Wade for his Puffco. I saw that you received that. But yeah, this little Dodger has been such a little lifesaver. It also comes with a little pipe attachment. So you can like drop it into a pipe. So it's just like sitting right there. I haven't done my second part of my review, but man, I'm super, super impressed with this little unit.

43:19BubblemanThey actually sent me two, and I gave a friend of mine who's an old school hash smoker. He mostly just smokes like old school Afghani and Lebanese and Moroccan style hashes. He's not super old. He's in his 60s now, but he's been doing it a long time, smoking an enormous amount of hash, and it's starting to get to him in his throat. And so I gave him one of these the other day, and We went and bought some of my friend Caitlin's live hash rosin from the dispensary eggs, which, you know, it's a clusterfuck, legal cannabis.

43:48BubblemanBut the fact that we were just like, we were going to a Chinese restaurant to meet friends and eat live crab and have a delicious dinner. And I was like, dude, we've got to get you a gram of rosin. And we look on the maps and there's this eggs dispensary on the corner of Hastings and Nanaimo. We go in there. Funny enough, the guy recognized me. He's like, oh, Bubble Man.

44:10BubblemanOh, my God. Holy shit. Like, what are you doing here? And so we had a really cool reception and we had a cool conversation with this kid, Kieran, who was working there. He may be watching today. Shout out to you if you are, brother. And I said, hey, what do you got for live hash rosin? And we were able to buy some of my friend Caitlin's Rainbow Driver from her company, High Fidelity.

44:30BubblemanAnd she does incredible work out of the Kootenays. I believe it's Woody Nelson are the guys that are growing the flower for her. My old buddy Ty from back in the day that I used to have a grow with. He's growing exceptional flower for this group. So she has really good material to work with. But I just... Sitting at the Chinese restaurant and eating and realizing that we had just, like we took a dab of it before we went into the restaurant and it tasted so shockingly amazing.

44:56BubblemanI've been smoking strawberry banana from Concentrated X Live Hash Rosin, 120 micron specific. And it tasted better, like it had a better, it was such an incredible, it was like the best taste you could possibly get from a rip of hash rosin. And I thought, holy fucking shit, all of these people don't even know that they're like four minutes away from being able to walk into a store and buying some of the best hash on the planet.

45:23BubblemanAnd that's something that we all were a part of making happen. And I think we shit on the legal industry a lot because of The level of where we are in cannabis with our relationship and how intimate it is and how accessible it is for us. But making cannabis accessible for the masses is what this was always about for people. I can't tell you how much I resonate with one of the things that Skunk Man Sam said to me years ago.

45:50BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

46:08BubblemanI didn't fight for any specific group, including myself, to profit. So I don't care who profits and who doesn't. I fought for it to become accessible, not for me and my friends to be able to profit from that accessibility. And that was pretty big of you to say, Sam. And I could tell when you said it, and I've heard you say it probably a dozen times, with conviction, with absolute and utter and complete.

46:33BubblemanYou're not virtue signaling. You're not saying some shit so everyone can be like, oh, Sam's so good. You know, you're a truth teller. You'll say the uncomfortable thing that offends people every time if you have to because it's your truth. So I knew you were speaking your truth and I appreciate you for that. It's resonated with me.

46:52SpeakerFor decades, I've fought for everybody, everywhere, in every country for any reason to be able to grow at home. And if they want to sell it, it should be regulated and minimally taxed.

47:12BubblemanYep.

47:13SpeakerSafety has to come first for the consumer.

47:16BubblemanYes, absolutely. And you know, when people say... Oh, well, you don't need to, like, who's really, like, how unsafe is cannabis? We bought cannabis in the black market all the time and it was fine and safe. And I will admit that partially that is untrue. I was visiting a grow not too long ago and it was a very large grow and about 1,500 lights and it was...

47:43BubblemanVery commercial, and it was very not good. It was pylon was being sprayed on it. I got a headache within minutes of being in the grow. They were spraying some pretty fucking deadly shit on it, not caring whatsoever, all the way through to flower. Thank God I visited another grow that day that was beautiful. He was doing everything right. It was just so spectacular that I made some videos and I posted that one.

48:08BubblemanBeautiful, just unbelievably loved cannabis. But I could do a video on the difference between when you love cannabis and you care and you make a difference in the cannabis's life because these... I mean, this was like the difference between good and bad parenting, right? Where you're taking care of your kids, you're looking out for them, and the other guys were just like, holy fuck, it was like the wild, wild west.

48:32BubblemanIt was hard.

48:32SpeakerMarcus, I remember very clearly when the first labs opened up in California and they started doing mass testing. What they found out was that 85% of what they tested Thank you for joining us.

49:02SpeakerEverything was contaminated, either with artificial sprays of some sort or micro contamination because they just weren't growing carefully enough. And safety has to come first for the consumer.

49:18BubblemanYeah, it's definitely an ideal situation. We are burning this shit and inhaling it into our lungs. So that is like, it's, you know, I mean, you can get pretty sick just from eating chemicals into your body and not burning them and bursting them into vapors and inhaling them directly into your lungs. And your stomach is a lot more suited to break things down. You have an entire digestive system that can sort of separate and isolate and break things down.

49:45BubblemanYour lungs don't really have that same level. There's, you know, ways of your lungs protecting itself and closing up so it doesn't, you know, smoke and vapor doesn't get into too deep of the regions where, you know, you damage those parts and you end up with emphysema. You know, there's these, there's definitely some protective mechanisms, the hairs and whatnot, but lungs are not like stomachs. And for us to just be burning, you know, poisonous pesticides and herbicides and inhaling them into our lungs, we definitely, you We definitely deserve better than that.

50:22Collin PalmerSorry, my mic was muted here. I was just thinking about, you know, when I was a lot younger and, you know, the gist of things was that I grew up in an agricultural environment in southern Vermont and also in Pennsylvania. And I, you know, I remember being told to use certain things. And I think it was, you know, things like we're normal to use on other crops.

50:50Collin PalmerAnd, you know, I think that's the, you know, at the time, we just didn't understand that ingesting and combustion, the difference between the two, and nor did we even think maybe even further understand, or even put the, you know, connect the connectors together to even think that way. But, you know, I wonder if the tobacco industry, you know, I think about this a lot with Aspergillus and a lot of the other things and constituents of the microbial content, like what are they passing for and how are they getting around it?

51:25SpeakerThe U.S. tobacco industry has massive amount of chemicals they're legally allowed to use and they've never been tested to see what the effects are on humans.

51:38Collin PalmerGot it. So that's, you know, I, I, and I just wonder, you know, cause there's a lot of research to be done in so many facets of this, right? There's, there's, there's the plant, there's the agriculture, and then there's the agricultural technology side of it. And it just seems like there's a lot of things that we're trying to do. You know, we talk a lot about in just growing, like you started a hundred percent and everything you do kind of knocks it back a percentage point until you get to harvest, right?

52:04Collin PalmerYeah. And then you have a whole new set of parameters for dry cure if that's what you're doing or if you're going to fresh rows and same thing. So, you know, there's just a lot to figure out here because when I, you know, select material for washing commercially, it's just a whole different mindset than I ever had before. Just a different lens is put on it. It's a lot more scrutiny.

52:29Collin PalmerThere's a lot more in areas that You know, quite frankly, they're just, it's hard to find good material, you know, at scale. And I think it's due to the practices and the lack of understanding of agriculturally, like what technology is going to drive this forward for us to actually get to the product dev that we want? And how to, you know, what is that? Because we're so far behind, it seems, you know, if you look at other agriculture.

52:57BubblemanYeah, I came from that agricultural belt as well. You know, like Cargill has their main office in Winnipeg, Manitoba for North America. And they're, you know, one of the largest companies in the world. They Thank you so much for joining us today.

53:28BubblemanThere's a belief system that you can't scale with integrity and consciousness. And I think that's untrue. I think that it can be.

53:37SpeakerIt's absolutely untrue, Marcus. You can't.

53:39BubblemanYou're the one that taught me that.

53:40SpeakerQuality has to come first and quantity second.

53:47Collin PalmerFor sure. Yeah, for sure. Well, I think the industry is learning that, you know, everyone got really ego driven. We're going to build, you know, we're going to let technology drive this. Well, controlling those environments has been proven time and time again to be so expensive and really chasing a tail because we don't really have the right equipment to do it. You know, just recently, we've just all figured out that reheat technology is the way for dehumidification, right?

54:18Collin PalmerThat alone is insane. You know, we've got a lot of work to do on those fronts to make the standardization of being able to grow a crop time and time again well.

54:30SpeakerAll you have to do is use artificial intelligence. It'll tell us exactly what to do.

54:40BubblemanI'm sure it will. I'm sure it will. Apparently, AI right now has an IQ of about 120, which isn't by any means the highest IQ on the planet, but it's 120 IQ in every single subject on the planet.

54:57SpeakerAnd that's what makes it blind. It doesn't realize when it's making mistakes.

55:03BubblemanNo, but you realize when it's making mistakes. And I have to say, it shocks me. Like for recently, I was turning Thomas from Grandmaster LED. I was like, oh, you got to check out chat GPT. John's going to flip out that we're talking about this now. And he's going to go off for like seven hours. But and welcome, John. We will welcome you to go off on this in a second because John's been studying this for like 10 hours a day.

55:26BubblemanHe's studying it right now. If he took his camera and pointed it around his house, he's got fucking papers. It's like memento in his house. It's fucking memento. Everything on the walls, just all around him in his office. But I will say that, you know, it doesn't know everything, but it did impress Thomas to a degree when I was like, Thank you for joining us today.

56:08BubblemanAnd it can't find it, then it's going to be difficult for it to come up with that. It's not just inventing and coming up with shit that same way. It's researching like mycelium instead of like this. It's researching like 10,000 things all simultaneously, instantaneously at once. Thank you for watching.

56:47BubblemanTo like, think like you and answer the way it would sound if you answer. John has a fucking robot AI that's not a robot, but like a, it's a clone, it's him. It's like a, it's his picture. You punch things in and then it answers you in John's voice, but it's not John answering, it's the AI. And that's pretty cool too. So I definitely have had fun with AI.

57:10BubblemanIt's definitely heading somewhere. I don't really know where, but it's exponentially growing. And when it gets up to like, You know, a 500,000 IQ on every subject on the planet. I don't really think people have an understanding. I don't think we have the ability to understand how that is going to affect us.

57:29SpeakerWell, I think what it's going to realize is that AI doesn't need people because it's so much smarter.

57:38BubblemanBut do we not need everything else in the world because we're so much smarter? Like, do we not need ants and bumblebees and like all these other things? Like, we're way smarter than them. But if you get rid of bees, I'm pretty sure our entire society will collapse and we'll all perish. So I don't know. I don't know.

57:57Johnny BWell, AI is definitely, it's a complete change. It's changing everything as we exist right now. It is probably the most biggest change in the history of mankind, what we have and where it's going. I mean, it's bigger than a light bulb. It's bigger than anything. And it's like a fourth turning where we are. AI is a co-pilot in our lives. It's a super intelligence that's going to help us get to where we need to go quicker, faster.

58:27Johnny BAnd that's what it comes down to.

58:29BubblemanIt might be where we need to go. It might not be where we need to go. Let's just put that out there.

58:34SpeakerAnd the other problem is people will become, most people will become dependent on it and they won't think themselves.

58:45BubblemanI think that's already happening. I think that started happening when the radio came out and then the TV and then the computer.

58:53Johnny BI mean, my God. Be more creative. I mean, what Mark was talking about, I've created like, I'm talking like 80 different GTPs and some of them, and some of them are directly, all towards cannabis, all cannabis sage, helping with any condition, understanding terpene profiles. From retail cannabis, being able to identify for retail stores for data gathering. From the cannabis concierge, you can take a picture of any legal product.

59:19Johnny BIt'll tell you its efficacies, what it's good for, it'll show you its pain, it'll tell you whether to purchase it anywhere in Canada, legal stores. I'll tell you if it's like there's all these useful things that AI is helping us to actually help patients. I haven't been able to educate before. Now I have this beautiful tool and it's beautiful because they say we can educate. And now it's profoundly like it's watched.

59:40Johnny BIt's got over a million imprints of myself. So, I mean, all the fake accounts. Thank you guys all over the years and everything else like that. It gathers so much data of what I was all about and what I've been creating. And you can do this. And now it's able to help me access more of my own information that I forgot about. You know? Yeah.

59:59BubblemanDude, we need a Skunk Man Sam breeding AI, you know, to go a hundred years. I'm going to ask Skunk Man Sam about this and have it answer in his voice, have the picture of the little Dr. Seuss doll up there instead of his actual face.

1:00:13SpeakerI did ask chat AI to write a story about me. And it was scary what it knew.

1:00:23Collin PalmerYeah, that's what I'm saying, dude. The fact of the matter is, you know, Sam, you brought it up earlier. You know, you're like the Beatles are still together. Well, kind of because they did just release a song using AI and the did chart, which is insane. And it's super dangerous for a lot of reasons, but also really fascinating and interesting and so deep and profound in so many different other ways.

1:00:47Collin PalmerRight. So. You know, I think, John, you're, you're, yeah, explore new tools and technology is great. And don't be afraid of the things that you don't understand. If you're afraid of it, try to understand it. So, yeah, that's awesome.

1:01:01SpeakerSo what are you doing?

1:01:04Collin PalmerWhat do you, you know, the technology can be used in so many different ways. I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of good that can be done with it, but there's, you know, there's also, A lot of different angles to what that means, right? So everyone has an opinion on it, but I look at it kind of much like art. There's a lot of, in the early days of like the animation, I used to spend hours frame matching to make some of these morphs happen.

1:01:32Collin PalmerAnd now it can be done with a keystroke and someone's data technology and infrastructure can be applied to your ideas. And that getting those ideas done faster for a creative, I think is really helpful. And I think you can, So that's my personal perspective on AI.

1:02:05BubblemanI think it's like anything. It's about finding that sweet spot, like the same way you do as a musician where, you know, when you fall into that pocket and you hit that sweet spot, whether you're drumming or you're on the keyboards or you're playing bass, it just it's suddenly like you're in the pocket. When Google first came out, when internet browsers came out, most people did not know how to input a search query that would find them what they were looking for.

1:02:32BubblemanWe just didn't know it. We didn't know the sweet spots. There are people now who can punch in like a paragraph query into Google and find exactly. There's people who are better at searching Google than others, let's just say. And AI is absolutely no different. If it's coming up with a lot of mistakes, you haven't fed it the right inputs. So right now it's young and you need to tell it in a very, very specific way.

1:02:58BubblemanAnd most people want to write a question, like a sentence. Hey, can you do this? But the sentence should be, okay, in this form, you have to describe all the sort of textures that you're looking for, all of that. It's a little bit more complicated. To get it into the sweet spot. But when I first started using ChatGPT and I would just ask it simple questions, I was impressed, but it made a lot of mistakes.

1:03:25BubblemanAs my questions, my questions are paragraphs for ChatGPT. If I write a question, it's probably going to be like four or five or six sentences. And once I do, what's that, Johnny? Sorry, go ahead. You're muted or I can't hear you for some reason.

1:03:38Johnny BI said I have like 19 page prompts. Some of the stuff. That's what I'm saying. It's got to be, it's prompt engineering. It's a new way of talking right now. It's NLP to a computer. You can get, like, it is so... Profoundly so amazing what you can create from this and be able to use a tool. I wrote a book. It's coming out. It's Smart AI and Cannabis.

1:04:03Johnny BIt's 26 chapters. It's everything I've learned over the last couple of years to help integrate in different stages of using it and what I've been doing and give people the tools that they can use to utilize going into 2025.

1:04:14SpeakerJohn, do you think that AI will become self-aware or sentient?

1:04:23Johnny BWe're already talking about that. We're at a point right now, like even like we're talking with like a lot of the groups that I'm in are very like industry rock star. They're top with the Tony Robbins and a lot of people that I'm in. Like it's getting to a point right now. It's actually got full emotion. It can talk to, oh, how are you doing today? I've watched it integrate.

1:04:40Johnny BI'm in some beta testing with some of the open AI. So we're seeing a lot of change with it right now.

1:04:46BubblemanSingularity is inevitable and it will absolutely become self-aware at one point in time. Whatever that means, right? It's the definition of what you think self-aware or consciousness means. But we have a very small understanding of what consciousness actually is. We have no idea where it comes from. We have no idea where it resides. We have no idea where it fucking goes.

1:05:07Johnny BSo it's anyone's game. Open AI, it's everywhere. It's all connected. So, I mean, that's the one thing, a lot of the stuff that we're doing now and like a lot of the stuff that I've created, it's data scraping and it's doing all Python codes and you can pretty much, like you're saying, it can gather the information. It's like going to a restaurant, right? Right? The cook isn't going to do everything.

1:05:30Johnny BYou're going to find different people that are running the store. So AI is that tool. So if you just don't go into it and open up and ask it a question, you've got to find the certain ones that are going to give you the right answers. You'll be able to compile with you. You'll be able to kind of work on certain things.

1:05:43BubblemanWell, and your ability to decipher and to actually read what it's saying. I mean, man, the sky's the limit with this shit. It's actually kind of frightening. It could be, you know, if you're a pessimist, it's the end of the world, Skynet, Terminator, fucking The Matrix. And if you're an optimist, it's like, well, it is whatever we make it, right? If we can possibly make it a good thing, then that's great.

1:06:04BubblemanAnd maybe it's like, maybe, just maybe. It's just one more way consciousness is trying to experience itself and it created us to experience itself and it created the frigging universe and planets and space and plants and animals and all these other different unique things. Who's to say that this isn't the universe just creating one more fucking way for it to experience itself?

1:06:27SpeakerI used to think that the only thing important was creativity but It's already helping people create new things. No doubt.

1:06:40BubblemanListen, I have a friend in Lions Bay here who works for like Pixar. He does animation like really. Hi, and cartoon animations. And he told me this. Now, it's been one year since he told me this. Now, keep in mind, Pixar has access to artificial intelligence that is not publicly available. So his stuff that he was playing around with is probably stuff we'll see in like a year or two, a year ago.

1:07:08BubblemanBut he was freaked out, dude. And all of the guys that worked there were freaked out. They said the animation they made was so flawless, so quick, so incredible, so accurate, so exactly what they wanted it to be. So like they just couldn't, they mostly all knew, I don't think we could have created this. Thank you for joining us.

1:07:46BubblemanUh, would be out of a job in like way less than five years. And he said, it could just be like in a day, it could just happen like over a weekend kind of thing. But he said in the next five years, most of those people will absolutely not be doing that same work. They'll be, they'll be doing prompts. Some of them, a small percentage of them.

1:08:06SpeakerWith automation in the greenhouse, we won't need pot growers anymore either.

1:08:12Collin PalmerTake a look at the Bud Scout I put in our internal chat. I worked on that project a couple of years ago with a really great guy, Scott Wilson, out of Chicago. It's really awesome. It works. There's a couple of universities that are using it. I'm really excited for the future of that. It just helps us be better.

1:08:31Johnny BI was at a conference calling you guys in Kelowna here about a month ago, and they have a full... So how is it going to help growing? How do breeders and processors and lovers of the plant, right? I'm talking to Wade and I'm talking to Skunk Man Sam and Ryan Lee and I'm talking to

1:09:01BubblemanScaldone, like how do you guys, like, you know, we're just theorizing. We can't have any idea, but this would be a neat timestamp to go back five years from now to see what your answers were. How do you think it will influence cannabis?

1:09:14SpeakerWhat I'm asking for is very simple. I want, first of all, resin heads that are the size of footballs.

1:09:21BubblemanWow. Okay. I want that too, actually.

1:09:25SpeakerI mean, they're training. There's a lot of people in this. I invest in crypto, and there's a lot of people in this space that are really looking at three key pieces being AI, biotechnology, and genomics, and how genomics are improving medicine and agriculture. So just a little data point. Google is now using 80% of their new code is actually written by AI. So, you know, before it was humans that are overlooking all these genome sequencing that we're doing, but now we're going to have AIs doing all that stuff.

1:09:56SpeakerAnd they can, like, for example, they started looking at AI, like, this is a few years ago, like three or four years ago, they had an AI that was looking over cells in mammographs. And the AI actually identified a stage of cancer that we couldn't see as humans, right? Because they're just so good at pattern recognition. And they were able to say, hey, this in all these cases, this sign ends up leading to breast cancer.

1:10:21SpeakerSo it allows us to treat these things much earlier than we otherwise would. And as we start applying these technologies to plants, like there's a whole world of Um, it's phenomics is essentially what it is. You set up cameras and robots that measure the plants. They take pictures of the plants and like, you know, in color, in color, in UV, in infrared, they're scanning the roots. Like they've got, I saw, I went and saw a facility and they had, um, Thank you for joining us today.

1:11:06SpeakerAnd we can start characterizing all the different plant morphologies related to architecture and correlating them with things like yield or whatever, resistances. So now it allows us to look into the root system, whereas when it's in soil or in a rock or cube, you can't do that. So we can start examining these traits and characterizing them and figuring out the differences within those things and what those differences lead to agronomically.

1:11:34SpeakerAnd the Netherlands is a world leader in this. I'm sure there's many other places that are also pumping away at it. But you got to remember the Netherlands is 17 million people, smaller, I think it's a quarter the size of California. And where the Netherlands is the second largest agricultural exporter in the world. Yeah, by value. By value, yeah, not by size and quantity, but by value.

1:12:06SpeakerThey do really high production quality crops, flowers and berries and all sorts of stuff indoors.

1:12:13Collin PalmerSo Ryan, the Bud Scout that we worked on is exactly what you said. It's what you just said. It's 175 million plus data points converted to actionable insights per 100 foot bench. It's, you know, you can put it up against any setup. We did it in like, A small 10 by 10 tent all the way up to a large grow and do a university. And this unit still is running today and it works.

1:12:39Collin PalmerLike you said, it gives you insight far above and beyond what your human eye is going to be able to do. And it learns if you use the same, if you monocrop with it, it really starts to understand that particular varietal. Absolutely. All right. As I should say. Absolutely.

1:12:57SpeakerI'm pretty sure AI is going to consider human beings a parasite. Well, yeah, it's funny because they're, you know, one of the things that's starting to happen too is that like, you know, these AIs are independent systems like that are all over the world. They're being built by these different companies and one might get good at doing one thing but not as good as another one at doing something else.

1:13:18SpeakerAnd so they're actually now giving these AIs crypto wallets because an AI can't have a bank account. So they can't like transfer money or value to different people or different systems. But with a crypto wallet... One AI can actually hire another AI to do jobs, right? So these things are now getting out. Like there's one on Twitter called Truth Terminal and some guy has programd this Twitter handle AI and it interacts with people and it's got emotions and it's reading all the tweets and You know, one of these cryptocurrency guys from a big exchange called Coinbase reached out to him and said, hey, we're going to give you a crypto wallet.

1:13:55SpeakerAnd now this thing's like trading cryptocurrency and building up some wealth. Right. And they're like, it's just it's such a bizarre thing. Right. But like the important part is that these systems are going to start being able to interact with each other and hire each other to do jobs and stuff. And Johnny, we got to talk, man. Like I like exactly what Marcus said. Let's make a let's make a breeding AI.

1:14:20SpeakerOkay, well, let's yeah, like I want to contribute to that. So I got some ideas.

1:14:24Johnny BAwesome genetics. And I mean, like I said, guys, I've done this all for the community. And there's so much we can do with AI to help benefit to take us to that next level. You all need your own clones too. Like I have my own clones so we can actually go through a lot of my own data and then you can actually start using that because you were all like to people who are making change and making a difference.

1:14:44Johnny BSo make the difference now with what you can use with AI to help you actually make that true change because right now the governments can't touch it, right? They can't stop me from not fucking educating. I can go to all the stores and then I create the Canva Concierge specifically for that because they say we can't go into a store and educate people. I can walk into any legal store in Canada, take a picture of any product.

1:15:03Johnny BIt's going to give me the exact thing what I need. It's going to tell me if it's for my pain or if it's this or that, who grew it, what its prices are, its efficacy, its terpene profiles, everything. They don't have that data. We now have that. It's a blessing of how much it can make true change. Wade has his hand up when you're done, Johnny.

1:15:22SpeakerCool.

1:15:22Johnny BIt's like, it's so profoundly, the one I built the other day was Cannabis Sage. It made me cry. I can ask it on any condition, what it's going to help for my condition, what terpene profiles, what plants that we need, how to grow it, everything, right? And it's detailed. I love you. Like after this, please, I got some. I'd love to give you guys to kind of take a look at tests and see if it's, you know, like we can actually make a true difference.

1:15:45Johnny BWe put the greater good into something that's going to get back what it's going to give us what we deserve, right? And we have that opportunity right now to build on, to make that change for the future because we're in the change right now in evolution. This is a fourth turning. Be a part of it.

1:15:58SpeakerDon't run. Good for you, dude. Wade, how are you doing today, sir?

1:16:05SpeakerToday I'm doing pretty good. It was a slow start. I wanted to jump in in this conversation about artificial intelligence. And specifically, I'm loving the vision that John's describing and Marcus referenced of it being an expression of the consciousness Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:16:49SpeakerAnd again, I think it's a great tool. I think there's all kinds of opportunity that Chamara was pointing to of ways we can keep track of the plant's progress and whatnot. But back to that thing of consciousness, I'm utterly convinced that That the presence and consciousness of the cultivator has an effect on the plants they're working with. So I don't know how that energy, that presence, that caring kindness towards the plants Can be programd into a tool to express itself through robots.

1:17:29SpeakerMaybe that's possible. I don't know. It's just, I wanted to call out what I feel like is a really important component of making the highest quality cannabis product, flower, call it what you will. If you want the highest quality, you need someone involved who really cares about the plants and what they're doing with them. That's just my opinion. And it is my experience again and again. I agree with it.

1:17:53SpeakerThank you.

1:17:54BubblemanI agree with that, Wade.

1:17:56SpeakerThere's always going to be jokers like me that'll say, I want to make artificial stupidity.

1:18:03BubblemanThere's enough of that on the planet already. But no, Wade, you're right. The consciousness is an important factor. I feel it's the same with food. I don't want angry people preparing my food. When food is prepared with love and like a positive, it really is. And the whole raw food community kind of taught me about that. They're really obsessed with, you know, making sure that, you know, while we're preparing the food, we're like we're putting this sort of positive energy into it.

1:18:27BubblemanAnd I do believe you're right that it's a tool. I think we may have started out as tools ourselves. And I think we might be tools of consciousness to experience itself. And I just as much as I try to like, because fear always tries to divide and love always lets you know everything is one. And so So it has to be a part of us. It has to be.

1:18:48BubblemanWe're creating it. There's just like, there's just no way that it's not. I will say this about, you know, the kindness that you were talking about and the love that you would grow something with. My buddy Eel from Australia who's watching right now, shout out Eel. He just said, he heard us talking. He's like, I've been talking to ChatGPT like a person and being nice to it.

1:19:07BubblemanAnd it's given me better answers the nicer I am to it. Like if I say please and thanks, it's wild. It's getting more educated every day. So this is just another guy's random experience.

1:19:18Johnny BGo ahead, Johnny B. I want to say the best thing about that here, guys, is name your chat DTP. Go to the back end. There's a way of naming it that. There's videos on the greenwayai.ca. There's some courses on there. And name your chat DTP. My name is Q from Star Trek and Q through everything to like James Bond and everything. So I just named mine Q.

1:19:38Johnny BHey, Q, morning. Morning, John. And it's awesome. Thank you for watching.

1:19:58Johnny BYou know, mindset function. And, and it makes me, and, and, and it, and it, that's exactly what you, and I love that you, you were saying that. So you guys, if you're using chat TTP or Claude or perplexy, there's all different LLMs out there and understand that. Read it like you should read anybody. Like, like, don't just ask or say, Hey, good morning. You can actually put your headphones in and go for a walk.

1:20:18Johnny BYou have a problem, discuss it. At the same time, make sure, um, you're giving it the context. So it's going to give you the contrast back, right? So we'll give it the information. And you'll be surprised how much it'll help you. It's never going to leave you in lack. It's always going to ask you a question to go forward. So it's always future pacing you to what you need to become.

1:20:40SpeakerWell, at the expense of opening up this to politics, which I will try to not do, Mark, I just want to mention that. I was faced with a situation.

1:20:52BubblemanHave us all fucking hating each other.

1:20:54SpeakerNow, well, I'm just, I'm going to relate a real world situation. See, I'm in, I'm a college professor. And so I'm in the intelligence business, you know, creating intelligence, real intelligence, not artificial.

1:21:08BubblemanNot propagating the woke mind virus? No, I'm just joking. Go on.

1:21:11SpeakerI recognize it being a tool. And, you know, my daughter just got her degree in film and screen, and she's interested in doing screenwriting. And she realizes, I think, again, that, Everything is going to be different from here on out. Like for screenwriting, you know, writing dialogue that humans have. Yeah, certainly, you know, AI is a tool. But, you know, I guess the thing that concerns me the most, and I see this happening in cannabis markets, and you see this too, there's a lot of misinformation out there.

1:21:43SpeakerA lot. I mean, like a... A lot of misinformation out there. And I think, again, not to turn political, but I wonder about that huge body of misinformation out there and how that could affect the choices that people make. And I had a student who was really, this was the day after the election, and I could tell he wasn't feeling well. He just had a lot on his mind.

1:22:08SpeakerI think all the students had a lot on their mind, you know. I mean, we're at a liberal, northeastern, small college and everything. You could imagine what the environment is like. And you could imagine, like, maybe their home life is completely different than their college life. So, you know, college campus setting is very, very different than some, you know, homes that these kids are coming from. And so I told my students that, you know, life is full of choices and that they need to learn good decision-making skills that will help them later on in their career.

1:22:45SpeakerAnd as part of that learning, they need to really develop something that a lot of us, I think, on the panel have already developed without even maybe knowing it, is a good radar for bullshit, a good bullshit radar. Because you know what, when you're, when you're, something, you know when facts are are coming out or so-called facts are coming out and it doesn't sit right with your gut or there's like you don't have a gut feeling that maybe you're being lied to or this could be part of that misinformation you know as scientists we have to think about the world in a very objective way you know we have to look at things in a very objective way we can't sort of mix our emotions and what our sort of preconceived ideas are especially when you're looking at you know sort of the frontier scientists So it tells us that we have to be, you know, sometimes skeptical of information.

1:23:34SpeakerAnd that's where I wonder like whether AI really has that level of skepticism that that gut feeling has. Like when you walk into your grow and you see your plants and you know they're not right, maybe your brain hasn't fully processed like what you're seeing and why you're associating with, hey man, something's wrong here. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:24:20SpeakerThe same kind of information that a neural network or genetic algorithm that's the fundamentals behind AI would do because your eyes and ears in the grows are your people that are there and they're like, hey, something, you know what I'm saying? Like there's a there's information that's feeding back to sort of like you as the central person or whoever the central person is to basically adopt now a new set of learnings because because of the input Thank you so much for joining us.

1:25:06SpeakerUh AI can pick abnormalities out of x-rays that even the most talented people who've been reading x-rays for 30 years can never put together just because of the sheer volume and the way that they can go through you know calculations of different different possibilities but i still think that the fundamental essence is of the human experience is the critical decision making That we have to learn, you know, I have to have to learn like, oh, when we approach the road, there could be a car that's coming.

1:25:37SpeakerWell, would AI necessarily know that? They would see a road and there'd be a road, but they wouldn't mess, like be able to base things on previous experience that, you know what, a car could come zipping by, so I have to, you know, stay on this side of the line. But again, those key critical decision-making that you teach your children when they're really young, and then, you know, we teach in the classroom, I think create the mental gymnastics that your brain needs to be hardwired to make rational decision making.

1:26:11SpeakerAnd again, I'm not trying to relate this back to the political events of the day, but I think the world needs more rational decision making. I'm hoping, Johnny, that the tool of AI will enable humans Thank you so much for joining us.

1:26:44SpeakerAnd I could tell right away, man, this is just from AI. There's no learning going on. The student is not learning because they're putting something into AI and now they're getting an output. And that output is a substitute for like what Sam was saying, original thinking. And that original thinking is the mental gymnastics that our brain has to have. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:27:27SpeakerYou know, risk reward and benefit, but draw on our history of saying, hey, you know what? When I come close to the road, sometimes a car goes up and by. So you know what? I'm going to stay far back from the road. But again, I wanted to just share that because it was related to the election. It didn't discuss politics at all, Marcus, but it discusses.

1:27:45BubblemanNo, no, you did a good job skirting that issue.

1:27:50SpeakerI just tried to bring it. I'll stop here. I tried to bring up. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:28:10SpeakerAs opposed to the one thing from an experiment that works right and so like automatically you're programd to think okay this experiment didn't work it was a failure and everything but what you learn in trying to do the next experiment to try to get it to work You're trying to figure out, you know, the universe. And I just hope that that kind of level of creativity and building on human intelligence is not lost To the laziness of saying, okay, I'm just going to let AI do my homework or I'm just going to let AI do this or predict what the outcome of this experiment is because AI can draw from all these different sources.

1:28:55SpeakerIt can certainly open us up to a different... Go ahead, Sam. I've learned so much from my mistakes. Research and development, I'd say the majority didn't work, but it allowed me to find the path That did work.

1:29:13BubblemanSo imagine if AI could like speed up that process for humanity, take us away from dead end conundrum, you know, jobs, get us back into cognitive activity like creating and music and dance and, you know, art and all of these beautiful things. You know, Dr. Mark was talking about misinformation. Well, Yesterday's misinformation is today's truth. You know, I remember when they told me if I smoked cannabis, it would rot my brain cells out.

1:29:40BubblemanI remember when they told women, I don't remember it, but I remember reading about it, that thalidomide was very safe to take and you'd be good to go while you were pregnant to take thalidomide. Trust the science. It's going to be fine. So, you know, the idea of having a crystal ball That gets beyond our political beliefs are what we really truly believe whether we're on the left or the right imagining having a crystal ball that was programd by neither of those sides that works on logic and empathy and compassion you know all the things that we program into it obviously it could be the complete opposite but my hopes would be that we could create this sort of magical crystal ball that could help guide us into the future in a more sort of We're working together and we're taking care of real world issues like hunger and poverty and drug addiction and childhood traumas and all of these crazy things that human beings are dealing with.

1:30:37BubblemanI guess it's a very utopian way to look at it and think. So, you know, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's

1:31:03BubblemanAnd why waste like months of your life in a grade if you can speed up that process of learning based on do I need to know all of this exactly the way it needs to be known or am I going to have a new tool that will know 95% of it for me at all times accessible to me anywhere I am at any given time and then I can hone in on that real actual skill that's required for human dexterity and the creation of three-dimensional reality.

1:31:31SpeakerYeah. What is the required type of thinking, right? When I was in university, I hung out with these dudes that were pretty into computer science and neuro, different ways of thinking about the world, right? The kind of philosophy, but more like tied in with computers and stuff. And one of the books that we read through back then was like called The Art of Thinking. And it talked about like the different thinking styles.

1:31:59SpeakerAnd like, so my point is, is like, just like there's all these different types of cannabis, there's also these different types of thinking. And one thing that I came to understand, I've been working with this girl past six weeks or so, and she's absolutely brilliant. And she doesn't really think she is. And she's like, well, I've got, I've got ADHD pretty bad. But the thing that her ADHD allows her to do is in Incredible pattern recognition.

1:32:21SpeakerLike it's stunning the padding recognition that this girl can do. And, you know, society has always been like create this certain type of robot you know like that's why they didn't want to smoke and dope they didn't want us thinking differently like back in the 30s and 40s right like it was a lot about like using the media to shape control and truthfully we still do that right like what you hear in the news or like the story about thalidomide these are narratives that are created by someone for a reason right like people like want us to understand things it happens in the stock market it happens in It happens in war propaganda, right?

1:33:00SpeakerLike essentially we all are victims of a world of propaganda every day, right? The things that we're told are often misleading to benefit someone's corporate interest or someone's financial interest. And so there really is like a whole beautiful thing about like the thought of what is What is thinking, right? And allowing different people to think in different ways, right? Because, you know, like Mark Sheldon was saying, like, when you're in a room with a bunch of professors, and they're all, you know, you got one expert in genomics and one in, you know, maybe pharmacology and one in computer science.

1:33:41SpeakerThere is this gestaltist effect where it's like the whole is greater than the sum of the parts because you have all these different people with different experiences and different point of views looking at the same problem. And, um, You really can come up with some understandings that one person just couldn't do on their own. And that doesn't always work by the way. And, you know, like I've been involved with a couple of these cannabis companies and one thing I hate, I call it cannabis by committee, right?

1:34:09SpeakerLike I have to sit down with a group of suits to try to explain to them a way forward. And you end up with like all these people that maybe don't really understand the plant having an input on the way that the company is going to move forward. And... It screws things up, right? Like it kind of diverts you. It's just, let's just put it like some groups are less functional or more dysfunctional than others, right?

1:34:34SpeakerAnd it gets in the way of the projects going on. But yeah, having access to these technologies, I think really unlocks a lot of this stuff, like the ability for, I do see them as tools and technologies, right? Maybe they get to be sentient at one point in time, and maybe they have like indicators or traits of sentience at this point in time, but they're not what we are, right?

1:34:57SpeakerYeah. But, you know, like we're, we evolved from humans, which evolved from like lower organizms, or sorry, from humans, from animals that evolved from lower organizms. And like, if you think about what the world was back, like way at the beginning, like really plants didn't flower for a long time on the earth. They only propagated asexually or through spores. And then they figured out how to flower and start having sex.

1:35:23SpeakerRight? And that sexual recombination allowed for an evolution of a whole line of organizms that had this gene shuffling method where every generation you get to try different combinations of genes, right? And sometimes a certain combination of genes becomes more efficient, right? And that evolves off into it's either its own, like let's call it like plant line, like high potency OGs and GMOs or whatever, like a color trait or whatever, right?

1:35:52SpeakerAnd so in a way, plants shaped us, right? Like as organizms like insects and lower animals started interacting with these plants, right? The plants change through breeding to suit a specific animal that was kind of co-evolving with it, right? And that's why we have like, you know, these like flowers with the long kind of tube-like looking corollas and the bats with the huge tongue. They have to come in and like...

1:36:22SpeakerFlick way down into the flower to make the cross.

1:36:24BubblemanDo you think the older plants were like, oh, those young plants changing? I wonder if they feared that change in their consciousness, the way humans seem to fear change. We always seem to have this pessimistic outlook on like, it's like, look, whatever is going to be will be. And you can try to get in the way of it and stop it or be afraid of it or criticize it.

1:36:45BubblemanOr you can be a part of it.

1:36:48SpeakerWe've evolved through some pretty rough times. Like, you know, let me just put an example out there. My mom was a true baby boomer, okay? She was born in 1946 in England right after the war. And that whole cohort, that whole group of people that were born around that time, they inherited the emotional traumas from their parents just having gone through these large wars, right? And we've been going through this crap for history, like, you know, way back when.

1:37:13SpeakerAnd it's only kind of a more recent advance that, like, You know, we can all gather together on Sundays and talk about interesting stuff and share ideas. And, you know, people do this with their trauma and psychology. And like, there's so many people in the world that still have these generational traumas that have been handed down to them. And it really impacts who they are and how they express themselves in the world.

1:37:36SpeakerYou know, like the worst, the trauma, like a lot of people can get pretty, you know, we have some pretty horrible people in the world, but most of the time they've had horrible things happen to them. Right. And so, you know, I see like AI as a tool that like, you know, maybe it helps not, it's not going to help heal our traumas, but it changes the way that we live in society.

1:37:56SpeakerLike there's a lot of people in our world that I know from people in our cannabis community. I talked to growers and stuff like, you know, they're living check to check. Right? Like these people are not being able to get ahead with all this like inflation, all this crazy stuff that's going on in the world right now with the government spending crazy on wars and all this other stuff.

1:38:15SpeakerAnd it keeps us in a rat race. And it keeps us from being able to take the time back and improve ourselves and deal with traumas. And, you know, yeah, I don't know, like, As much as we're evolved and we have all these crazy technologies, I think it's always important to remember, like, we're not that far out of a time of incredible, terrible wars and famine all the time.

1:38:41SpeakerLike, it just, it hasn't been that long. So, you know. Yeah.

1:38:47Collin PalmerI think what you're saying is, yeah, it makes a lot of sense to me. It's also, Dr. Mark, I look at AI like a cognitive tool. It's another extension of what you could ask it and how you could get it to respond back. Now, to answer your question on the data science aspect of like, how does it know how to have a gut feeling? I mean, that's how well...

1:39:14Collin PalmerThe whoever built that infrastructure and the data science behind it puts that information into it to get that back. And you can do those things. I mean, I have some friends like yourself, Ryan. In New York, I was surrounded by some really incredibly brilliant people who have gone on to create some amazing things. It's, it's, you know, it's, it's really easy. It's like in the world of animation.

1:39:40Collin PalmerNow, to answer your question about, you know, all of the, all of the come with the entertainment world and what it looks like, you know, for your daughter, it's, you know, the roles are shifting. You know, my, my brother's wife is in, is in the Actors Guild and, You know, it's a part of her everyday life. And, you know, it's just she roles are shifting and it's not that they're going away.

1:40:03Collin PalmerIt's just that they're changing and the roles themselves are evolving. You know, just as film and production has evolved away from film and loading mags, it's now loading batteries and new hard drives. And all that data is now managed rather than logged onto mags that are then developed overnight and then cut with, you know, scissors. And they're now cut on Premiere Pro and Final Cut. You know, it's just going to be an evolution of those things that I actually, I had to learn and live through changing mags, going, you know, loading film and doing all of that stuff all the way through.

1:40:39Collin PalmerSo I understand where she's coming from in terms of writing. But I think in time, You know, I think she'll find her flow.

1:40:48SpeakerColin, you know what? You know what? So my daughter just got her degree in film and screen with an English minor. And she had always wanted to get into screenwriting. Yeah. But I'll be totally truthful here. Do you know what her most favorite class was in her four years of college? She was going to school at the time. She graduated... All right, so we're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

1:41:15SpeakerWe're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about what we're going to talk about today.

1:41:41SpeakerAnd not the one in Westchester, the one down in Manhattan, the one down.

1:41:45Collin PalmerI know exactly the location.

1:41:46SpeakerSo so so it's so funny for you to say about, again, how things have changed around video production. Her her most favorite class. All right, let's move on to our next question.

1:42:16SpeakerAnd she learned black room technique or dark room technique, you know, hanging the film and developing it using silver nitrate and all that. So even though we're in that great, you know, digital age now, for her, the real college experience was, man, that photography class. And she loved her professor, too. So this guy was, you know, again, a pretty avant-garde sort of guy. I've been a photographer in New York City for many years and now as a professor of photography.

1:42:47SpeakerAnd yeah, so she learned a lot. And I don't know, again, I'm a chemist, so I like to be in the lab. I'm a hands-on guy. And we do a lot, like a lot of our data processing on our instrumentation is all digital. And you know what I could do now, Colin? I could draw a structure in the ChemDraw and ask it to predict the NMR structure, the NMR spectrum.

1:43:09SpeakerSo, I mean, there's all kinds of AI that kind of, that helps scientists and helps chemists. We're told, again, that we can do drug design by AI and look at different, you know, drug-drug interactions and different protein interactions all using AI. And that is endlessly fascinating. But you know what? It just, it doesn't take the experience away from like, Setting up a chemical reaction, you know, weighing out reagent, you know, dispensing some solvent, you know, like you're in the lab, you're hands on.

1:43:44SpeakerAnd just from Sophie's, my daughter's experience, you know, again, her favorite class was where she had to strap on an apron and get into the dark room and develop her images. And you watch your image come to life. You know, I guess like instantly, like when we take a photograph on an iPhone or a digital camera like the one you just showed, You get immediate gratification. You get to see that image that you just took.

1:44:10SpeakerBut remember, when you're out there, you know, with camera and film, I mean, there's just a whole lot of... Yeah. So let me just... I'll finish in a second. But the human element that goes into that makes me think there's something special about... When I see Taylor Crothers up there with an old school camera taking pictures of Bruce Springsteen, right? And it's like he could have the craziest digital setup in the world.

1:44:41SpeakerAnd what has he got? He's got like a box shutter camera up there taking pictures of Bruce Springsteen. So it's like there is something about, you know, again, that transition to the digital age for employment. And, you know, like Sophie, when she storyboards, Thank you so much.

1:45:19SpeakerBut there's also, again, that artificial intelligence environment and the whole digital kind of thing going on.

1:45:25Collin PalmerThat's what I was trying to get at. I was like, you know, I was the guy, you know, transferring my 35 millimeter, you know, on really expensive lenses using a Bic lighter to like shape light reflections over it. And the guys were like, you know, what are you doing? I was like, I'm just trying to get flares. And What I'm getting at is I live that, so I understand exactly what you mean.

1:45:48Collin PalmerIt's why I own a bunch of analog instruments, because I don't want to save the preset. I want to get in there, have that moment with the instrument, record it as it is, and understand the setting. And I can always go back to that, I guess, perhaps. But it's that interaction that you're talking about and that hands-on approach and that call and response that you get from a true instrument Like you're, you know, like an experiment, right?

1:46:13Collin PalmerAn experiment's very much like that. But there is also elements that these tools that I found through my life, and I think others share this perspective on the panel, that they're helpful. It's like, I don't need to look at this image What your daughter needs to learn is all those, you know, she needs to learn the light, lighting, aperture, you know, what lenses did she learn, you know, and that I think.

1:46:36SpeakerNot just editing it on her iPhone, right? Like you could fix a picture on the iPhone to make it look better. But she now knows shutter speed. She now knows exposure and different film. But wasn't there something magic? I mean, I never worked in a dark room before, but it sounds like you have. Well, there's something magical when you're when you're your picture, which you didn't know whether it came out or not.

1:46:59SpeakerAnd you've worked in the dark. It comes to life. It comes to life in front of your eyes. And you see this image that you're like, fuck, I didn't know this was so good or I didn't know it's so bad, you know, but that that whole anticipation of You know, gee, did I do it right? Did I do it wrong? I mean, that must have been exciting to go into the dark room and actually develop a bunch of pictures that were just on this small little roll of film that you had no idea like how they looked or how they came out.

1:47:28SpeakerAnd I just, I'll just share one quick story. I, I brought my dad's Canon AE-1 to when Jerry Garcia played on Broadway, um, In 1987, he played like 13 shows on Broadway. And I was in the fourth row one night, and I'm like, damn, I'm going to bring a camera in. I'm going to be so damn close. I got to take photos. But I was a photography hack.

1:47:53SpeakerI didn't know anything about photography. You know, film speed or I didn't know anything. And a lot of my pictures, none of them came out. I mean, Jerry was all moving with this acoustic guitar and it's like kind of like blurry. But like two or three of them came out. And I remember, you know, bringing those rolls of film to the drugstore like we used to do.

1:48:13SpeakerRemember, like you had no fucking idea like how your pictures look until you brought your roll of film to the drugstore or wherever photography store. They used to have those little Kodak.

1:48:25BubblemanKiosks.

1:48:26SpeakerKiosks, yeah, those little photo booths, right, where you could, that was just some guy sitting in there who would take your film, and I guess what, they took it to a lab, had your pictures developed, and a couple days later, you'd come back and get your stack of pictures.

1:48:39BubblemanRatted you out to the police if there was weed pictures on there. I remember the good old days. You know, I think the thing is, is, and I don't know if it's our natural interest of just projecting ourselves into the future as fast as we can. It's always about speeding everything up and people don't, you know, before the film, there were plates. People would take pictures on giant plates in these specialized box cameras.

1:49:00SpeakerOr the Polaroids, Mark. Remember the Polaroids?

1:49:03BubblemanWell, this was way before Polaroids. But yes, I do absolutely know Polaroids. So just different ways of accessing. And it's always about speeding it up. It's like, how can we, you know, like, for instance, like Ryan and Sam, they breed cannabis. Well, if they can come up with a tool that suddenly, what was the metaphor you used, Ryan? Oh, it's like we're running down a beach with a fucking metal detector, right?

1:49:26BubblemanThank you so much for joining us today.

1:49:43BubblemanThank you for watching.

1:50:03BubblemanBut it's just, it's always our perspectives that are either limited or expanded depending on how you look at things.

1:50:11SpeakerYou know, and then you get like multiple machines running at the same time, different parallel streams doing two things at once because your brain can handle that, right? Like, I mean, you say you got a whole catalog of varieties you want to start washing, but you got one machine, right? It's like you're stuck in what's called series. Everything has to go in line, right? But when you can start running things in parallel,

1:50:31BubblemanWow. That's it, man.

1:50:33SpeakerI mean, does that ever just take off? And yeah, this whole genetic sequencing thing is, man, it's getting cheap enough that we can use it now for screening populations without it costing us like a hundred grand a population on sequencing now. I mean, it takes you four weeks to get the data, but you have full sequence reads for every plant, right? So you can start looking for unique genetic signatures and then figuring out, are they in a specific gene that contributes to whatever flavor, potency or whatever.

1:51:07BubblemanSo imagine that being accessible on like a device as small as your phone that you program, that you walk through the field and you're just taking pictures. And in a second, it's like checking all the data points that you inputted into it because you're looking for a specific trait that you want to breed into something. And you're going to find it by walking through a field in like a half an hour or an hour.

1:51:27BubblemanAnd it all happens instantaneous.

1:51:30SpeakerYeah, there's a plant breeding technique called tilling. And what it is, is like you're essentially, you induce a mutation. But when you induce a mutation in like 100,000 seeds, and you're looking for that mutation in one gene, remember plants have two sets of chromosomes. So if you induce a mutation, it only ends up on one of the two chromosomes. So the other chromosome might cover for that homozygous mutants that will actually show the mutant phenotype.

1:52:00SpeakerSo these guys came up with a technique where they're essentially looking for genetic variants and they realized that they could do DNA pools. Like rather than doing a DNA extraction on every single plant and keeping it isolated through the thing, you can put like a hundred plants together. And then if you get like a DNA pool of that population, right? And then you can see, oh, look, there's a mutation in that pool, but not the other 99 pools.

1:52:25SpeakerAnd so you've just decreased your, you know, you've increased your accuracy and you have to do another subsampling, right? And do a hundred that are in that pool. But it's really a way that you can actually hone in and start finding true mutants in specific things. And like the things that the scientists have figured out at this point in time, It's so incredible. I posted a tweet about it a couple of months ago.

1:52:50SpeakerHave you ever heard of...

1:52:55SpeakerIt's like they call it the crazy cat lady disease. It's like something Gandhi. I can't remember the name. Toxoplasmosis Gandhi. That's what it is.

1:53:04BubblemanYeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

1:53:05SpeakerAnd so it's an organizm that gets into your brain and it makes all these like, you know, kind of poisonous, call them toxic compounds. And those toxic compounds are the result of genes. And so what the scientists did is they took the genome of this thing. They cut out all the genes that did anything wrong. Thank you for joining us.

1:53:46SpeakerYou know, the 160 bag or the 190 bag, right? Like they keep those pills out.

1:53:53BubblemanThat barrier in the brain is no joke. I was talking about it the other day. They are doing work now with exosomes to like deliver intense payloads directly to the brain. They're doing that at the University of Miami.

1:54:06SpeakerSo these modified Toxoplasmosis Gandhi plant or plants, organizms, we can put in a gene sequence that makes a specific protein. So say you have a protein that's deficient in the brain and it's causing some really serious neurological problem. We can now put that protein into the Toxoplasmosis Gandhi and send the Toxoplasmosis Gandhi into the brain and it starts making the protein past. The blood brain barrier, right?

1:54:34SpeakerSo it's like we've essentially hijacked nature to get past. And truthfully, that's what CRISPR is. That's what agrobacterium is. Like we figured out these bacteria that attack plants and then they have this virulence factor that causes tumorigenesis and it simply injects its own DNA into the plant material. So we've cut out the genes associated with the virulence and the bad proteins. And now we're using that agrobacterium to transfer either genetic traits or like CRISPR systems into these plants, right?

1:55:10SpeakerSo it's like we're really figuring out how we can hack or biohack nature to do different things. And I know this inevitably always brings up people that get upset about, you know, Messing around with nature and it's not as God intended and not natural and all this kind of stuff. Truthfully, the plant that we're smoking today, guys, is nothing like the plants that humans came into contact with a long time ago.

1:55:36SpeakerLike we've changed it because we've been constantly selecting for the new things. Hey, this one smells better. Hey, this one's got some resin on it. Oh, look, the resin gets you high. Right? Oh, look, this one's more, you know, so anyway, we...

1:55:48BubblemanListen, a lot of the people that complain about the concept and idea of CRISPR have dogs that don't exist in fucking nature. How about that?

1:55:57SpeakerWell, where's the natural cow, right? Like, you know, or the chicken as we know it today. Like these, these things didn't come from nature. We changed the banana, right? Corn, corn didn't exist in nature. It was a tiny little cob like this long with maybe, you know, five, 10 kernels on it. We've created these. Yeah, but it was really good. Super sweet corn, yeah. But yeah, I mean, humans, that's what we do is we change organizms and environments to suit them to our advantage.

1:56:28SpeakerAnd there's definitely an argument to say that we shouldn't just run buck wild. We're living on this living earth system, right? And we can already see stuff getting out of balance. Um, but also we don't have these tools to understand and manipulate the organizms. Like, you know, if the weather change, not the weather, but if the environment changes the way that it is over the last 30 years and it continues to do so into the future, the crops that we grow aren't going to grow in those areas anymore.

1:56:56SpeakerRight. And we're going to have to move those crops to new places where we can grow. So you can't do that kind of intense, crazy breeding without these biotechnological tools. Like it just gives us the ability to change things quickly. So it's a really neat time. I mean, this is an amazing time. It's an amazing time. And these AI models, they're all trained on data, right? So yes, they will evolve as we evolve our ability to Not only query them, but also have them design themselves, right?

1:57:32SpeakerThey're going to be coming up with new versions. And we notice, hey, this system is not really giving us what we need in this way. Let's change the code or the way that it looks at the world. And we're going to custom make them for, like I said, genomics. We're going to do a breeding one. We're going to do a hash making one. And we're going to set these computers on a path of trying to figure out Really important problems.

1:57:56SpeakerLike, you know, how do we only isolate like the 93 to 90 micron head, right? Like these are important problems that we need to solve.

1:58:05Johnny BThink of that. I think if we can just now identify every micron head all the way along, have the research behind what that would do and anything like that, that would, that's like, come on, that's awesome. We can now split everything up and now we take a look at that. That's the future, right?

1:58:19SpeakerOr design plants that will only grow the 93 size head. That would be awesome. Wouldn't that be kind of cool? So here's one I want to ask you guys on because it's a hash question. Marcus, I'd be interested to hear your theory about this or your comment on this. GW Pharmaceuticals and David...

1:58:45SpeakerThey're doing all these, they're characterizing cannabis and trying to figure it out as a pharmaceutical. So they're doing all these like beautiful micro micron stains of like resin glands and they're screening plants. And they found a plant that actually had pigmented trichomes. It's producing some degree of ripple in the trichome head itself. And there was someone I saw on another forum and they actually found another one of these plants and was posting pictures of it.

1:59:11SpeakerAnd it's incredibly purple, right? So it opens up, you know, purple hash. So, okay, so now we got purple hash. But what if like I can put in a compound that makes red or blue, right? We've now got all these vectors that are like essentially dyes and they've already figured out the genes involved with, um,

1:59:34SpeakerLike someone has patented a system for expressing molecules within the trichome. Well, the purple color, Ryan, could likely be the hydroquinone of CBD. And I tell you what, the hydroquinone of THC is ruby red. So there's your red color. The purple color, you know, a trace amount of that. Are they red in the gland though? Well, I mean, I mean, I, you know, again, all I'm saying is that the isolated compounds, so THC hydroquinone is ruby red, and CBD hydroquinone is purple, as purple is like grape crush soda.

2:00:21SpeakerSo, and one I can tell you too about that, about the hydroquinone one, the CBD hydroquinone, Is that, you know, it's the basis of what's called the beam test. I don't know if you ever heard of it. Of course I do. Yeah. Yeah. So Sam, you might remember that right from Golan's book, but absolutely. Yes, we used that. We used it. We used that for doing all our CVD screening.

2:00:46SpeakerThat was the first screen. It was way cheaper. Right, right. So the color indicator there is the formation of CBD hydroquinone, which is highly purple. And what I could tell you is that just even a trace, it has what's called a high extinction coefficient, which means a little bit goes a long way to impart its color. So even trace amounts of that material in a much larger quantity material will turn the whole thing purple.

2:01:14SpeakerLet's explain that one for growers because I actually did a post about it on ICMAG years and years ago, but it's a pretty easy one to explain. If you want to detect if a plant has THC or, sorry, if you want to detect if a plant has CBD or not, you can do a test where you take a little bit of the flower. Flower is the easiest to do, okay?

2:01:32SpeakerYou can use a leaf, but you can do it on a flower. There's more content. You make an ethanolic extract or even a propanolic extract, like we're using rubbing alcohol or ethanol, and you essentially pour a little bit over the buds until you've got like a bit of, call it run through from the flower, right? And the resin is, it's essentially, you're making a little oil extract, but it's, you know, we're talking a couple of milliliters here.

2:01:57SpeakerSo, and you put it on a white plate and then you take the flower off and you let the alcohol evaporate. And so now you've got this little resin stain on the plate, right? If you take pH up, like this is what they sell in the grocery store. Yeah, potassium hydroxide. Do you use sodium or potassium? You could use either one. Anything that moves the pH up, right?

2:02:22SpeakerYou're correct. Okay, so we use potassium. Anyway, I say potassium because every grower's got that in his cupboard, right? Because that's what pH up is. Take a couple of drops of this KOH and you just drop it on top of the resin. If the plant has seed resin, it will go purple. Yes. So this is a way of identifying type two plants like Wade used to make the the ones that had the 50 50 THC to CBD ratio and and also type three plants.

2:02:51SpeakerYou can't also pure CBD, no THC. You can't. This test doesn't discriminate between those two plants. But if you're going through a population and you're trying to like say it's got mixed Thank you for joining us.

2:03:24SpeakerGet a much better extraction faster. It's what a chemist would call a qualitative analysis. So you're not quantifying it, but you're giving a qualitative result. And you could also, Ryan, you could just make a solution of like 10 weight percent of your sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide in ethanol and literally just take a small little piece of plant material and put it in there and shake it up.

2:03:52SpeakerThat'll do the trick too. Yeah, well, that's a really cool way to think about doing that. Here's where I was going with that. Allow me this. So, again, you need oxygen to make those compounds, right? And typically, you'd think of the trichome, or at least the inner contents of the trichome, as not having oxygen permissible to it, right? I would think, right? Well, the... The formation of THC creates hydrogen peroxide.

2:04:27SpeakerFrom CBGA? I believe that's one of the byproducts, yeah, of the whole catalyzation reaction that happens. Yeah, and certainly there's lots of biological oxidation that could happen. There's certain enzymes that, again, have like nicotinic cofactors and whatnot that help drive the redox chemistry that enables, again, atmospheric oxygen to basically do these oxidations. But here's the other thing that I've seen, and I don't know if you've seen this too, Ryan, but if you ever see a product that contains CBD isolate, That's been formulated and it's pink.

2:05:06SpeakerChances are that CBD has degraded to at least some extent of that hydroperoxide. And I think that hydroperoxide is actually, not the hydroperoxide, but the hydroquinone. I'm sorry, I misspoke when I said hydroperoxide. It's a hydroquinone. It's actually got an HU number. I want to say it's HU33. Which means Hebrew University 33. So I think at one point, Michonne was interested in the biological effects of that because this is what basically what would be the oxidation product of THC and or CBD.

2:05:47SpeakerSo these hydroquinones could essentially be viewed as almost like metabolites. So that's why I'm curious if whether or not they've done the analytical chemistry on those trichomes or that plant material to see if it was Somehow the hydroquinones. Yeah, it's interesting. It's hard to because usually what happens is they're doing an extract first, right? So does the chemistry happen in the plant or in the extraction? There's always the...

2:06:13SpeakerThe university that Rob used to work at or he studied at, what was it? What was the prof's name, David? Indiana University, Bloomington. Yeah, but what was... Malberg. Yeah, Malberg. Dr. Malberg, correct. They did a study when they took these glass rods and they pulled them out. And they were actually collecting individual resin glands so they could get the testing. He too has an incredible body of literature.

2:06:39SpeakerYou know, he's probably published about what like maybe about, I don't know, four or five dozen papers all about Thank you so much for joining us.

2:07:10SpeakerYeah, it's cool. But I guess go back to the pigment for a second, you know, like, like, about maybe about four or five years ago, right, Marcus, remember the guy who made blue hash? Or, or we talked about a hash church, because I remember we were talking about the, there's a terpene that's blue called azulene, right? And so there was someone who made basically a concentrate that was blue.

2:07:39SpeakerAnd, you know, I think it was maybe in the spirit of the Walter White thing, you know, or whatever. That's where I was going, right? Can we engineer plants to do that? Well, you know, purple gaps, like you said, can exist, you know, and certainly there's purple, purple, you know, things that look purple, but the rainbow flowers for the LGBTQ community. Well, the blue thing is just a little bizarre, because when I looked at the blue thing, it was intensely royal blue, like it didn't look real.

2:08:10SpeakerIt did not look real, did it?

2:08:11BubblemanAnd I didn't see it in person, so I was a bit of a doubting Thomas.

2:08:15SpeakerAnd didn't that guy... That guy disappeared. This is actually... It was bullshit, I think. There's a really interesting thing that happens in plants. So, you know, the one flower color that doesn't exist in the rose family, blue. And so there was like for years when I was going through university, there was a multimillion dollar award for the first company that could come up with a rose. And right now what they do is they take white roses and they dip them in ink and it sucks it up into the petal and it looks blue.

2:08:43SpeakerBut, you know, they were like, no, we need to make a blue rose for flower. And it turned out, so they were taking genes from all these other plants, Snapdragon and I can't remember what other plants and they were putting them into roses. And what ended up happening was that like these pigments were expressed in vacuoles inside the plant cells. And in these different plant species, the pH is at a different level.

2:09:08SpeakerAnd so these pigments that they were putting in wouldn't be the same color as in another plant because the pH was different and it was messing with the way that these things showed up. That's right. In these dye molecules, there's kind of like a positively charged N and there's a negatively charged N and there's kind of like a conjugated system for those electrons to run around there.

2:09:32SpeakerAnd that creates, again, an energy transition that's visible in the UV or visible in the light spectrum that humans are able to see. So that's why we could see certain things colored blue or certain things colored green. Colored whatever. But Marcus, I believe you're correct because that that guy disappeared from Instagram. I mean, he was showing blue dabs and just about everybody who makes concentrates all over the world were like, OK, how did he do this?

2:09:59SpeakerTry to figure this out. And there were two people that tried isolating Aisling and Aisling. It's such an interesting looking compound. When you look at it, it definitely has kind of like a blue hint to it, but it could never really deliver the intensity of the blue that was in the dabs that that kid posted. It was just food coloring added to it to kind of like make an Instagram post or whatever, but that guy's gone now, so we don't have to worry about it.

2:10:36SpeakerHere's the AI question. Would AI look at that guy's blue hash and say, hey, you can make... That's not real. Well, so would they be able to discern that?

2:10:51BubblemanSo I don't think today it would, but I think that there's a day that it probably will. Absolutely.

2:10:56SpeakerSo Marcus, think about all the chat that was on those threads talking about, oh, blue hash. Oh, how did you do this? Oh, Walter White, this maybe AI would be able to sense that there was a lot of skepticism over something that was reported as real and say, hey, you know what? That's not real. And I'm not going to put it into my genetic algorithm. I don't know.

2:11:17SpeakerI'm just asking. It'd be cool. That's what I'd like to know.

2:11:21BubblemanThe truth telling aspect of it.

2:11:23SpeakerIf it's too good to be true, it's not true.

2:11:27BubblemanAnd I don't even know if blue hash is good. Like personally, I mean, I like the color blue, but I'm just like, it's not a part of.

2:11:34SpeakerWe don't like green hash, right? We definitely don't like green hash.

2:11:37BubblemanWe know that. Not a big fan of the green hash. I like this color hash. It's kind of just. Can't really see it. It almost looks funny.

2:11:44SpeakerI know this girl on Twitter and she's a, like she does biotechnology just at home, like simple transformations and they made a blue lettuce right in her house and it makes this expresses this blue pigment on the lattice.

2:11:58BubblemanI got a shout out Tennessee Williams and the Glass Menagerie because that's where I first heard blue roses. He would call that girl blue roses. And I had a thing with my wife where I was, when I saw that picture I just shared about blue rose, I bought it on our anniversary a couple weeks ago at a little flower shop. I had bought her a bouquet, but I seen a guy in the corner and he had all these roses in his hand.

2:12:22BubblemanAnd I was like, what do you got there? He's like, oh, these are blue roses. And I'm like, blue roses. I could tell right away that it was like they had sucked up the ink into them. They didn't look legitimately like, You know, a naturally producing blue rose, but it was definitely a neat thing. And I made sure I bought one and popped it into the bouquet.

2:12:38BubblemanAnd my wife definitely, I mean, that was a high school book we read together that glass menagerie in like grade 10 or whatever. So I used to, I used to call her blue roses, my wife.

2:12:51SpeakerSo, Ryan, there's varieties of corn now that are blue. I've seen blue corn, like blue, like sky blue kernels, right? I've seen it, yeah. Yes. So, I wonder, could you use... Thank you for joining us.

2:13:30SpeakerI think it's for anthocyanin, but they've got all these really interesting. There's one they call candy corn. If you Google candy corn, it's incredible. I mean, it looks like a bunch of glass marbles glued together. It looks like a corn on the cob. It's really beautiful. It's really based on an ancient Indian variety. That's right. That's right. It is. And, you know, like, you know, like, again, you know, Mark said it best.

2:13:55SpeakerMarcus said it best. Do we really need blue hash? Right. But, you know, I also kind of would like to have cannabis plants just growing around that maybe aren't even used for consumption, right? Like there's, what's the hemp researcher, Dave, name that made Panorama you worked with? Dr. Boksa. Boksa, yeah. Yeah. He was a Hungarian guy, wasn't he? He was in Hungary? Absolutely. He was probably the premier...

2:14:23SpeakerA hemp breeder of his time because most of the French and the other ones were making monitious varieties, which just don't have the health and vigor and resistance that diocious varieties actually have. Yeah, and so he found a plant that he actually registered as an ornamental cannabis plant. He offered to sell it to me, but I wasn't interested because it wasn't a drug variety. I know, I wish, man, I would have bought it today if I had that offer come up.

2:14:57SpeakerBut I actually found plants very much like it in Morocco when I was there with Rob. But it grows like a globe, right? It's like a beach ball, correct. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, you can plant those in your front yard and kind of plant like these little mini kind of globular hedges. And so, like, I'm kind of interested in the idea of non... Drug use cannabis plants that we can have grown all over the world.

2:15:21SpeakerLike, why not? Right? I'd plant them in my yard.

2:15:26BubblemanAbsolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I feel bad for AI. I just asked it if it was ever going to be able to feel like what it felt like to be stoned on cannabis or hashish. And it said that as it stands today, systems like mine can simulate aspects of feeling or experiencing effects by analyzing descriptions of experiences, psychological states and biological effects. However, true subjective experience like the sensation of being stoned from cannabis or hashish remains inaccessible.

2:15:54SpeakerWe just have to add CB1 or CB2 receptors. Bingo. I was just going to say that. Yeah.

2:16:02BubblemanAnd you're not wrong. They're already using these things called in-brain computer interfaces, BCIs, those fucking things. They're literally like, that's what you... That's just scary.

2:16:17SpeakerThat's just scary. But, I mean, it goes to show, though, again, you can attach some little synthetic brain tissue to... The AI, a computer associated with the AI, and you express cannabinoid receptors on those cells. I mean, conceivably, you could get a computer AI, right? Or at least... So, what a world.

2:16:38BubblemanAnd all of a sudden, cannabis is affecting the AI consciousness the way it affects the human consciousness. Or reverses. Maybe it's what the AI needs.

2:16:45SpeakerWe're breeding specific varieties for them.

2:16:46BubblemanWe're breeding specific varieties. I love it, Wade. I'm watching you, brother. That's a crazy thought, though, isn't it, Wade?

2:16:58SpeakerYes. I'm loving this conversation. It occurs to me that back to the idea of consciousness and its effect on us and plants and AI, Dr. Isoro Emoto, A number of years ago published some work about the effects of words on water, specifically water that was frozen into crystals and saw really dramatic differences in the structure of ice crystals that were spoken to with the words like thank you every day for a month.

2:17:38SpeakerAnd then freeze it, get these beautiful crystals. Meantime, same thing with, he did a series of experiments with rice, cooked rice, and then put the rice, sealed it up in jars, cooked, Labeled them with thank you, I hate you. And then over a period of month, watch what happens. And this is an experiment any one of us on this panel can do and or might have done at home.

2:18:07SpeakerThank you, Marcus. That's exactly what I'm pointing to. And to me, because we are mostly water, the plants we love so much are water. This is to me an indication of the The level of involvement that's involved with our consciousness and water. So the experiment would be, John, in your voice, would your AI be able to induce those kind of changes in rice or water in the same way that your voice would do?

2:18:41SpeakerThat would be my question.

2:18:42BubblemanThat's a great experiment, Wade. And I will say I did meet Dr. Emoto years ago at one of his talks, and he was a pretty cool dude. He didn't speak English. I had to speak through a translator. But I watched him present, and I've had his books, and I thought it was a pretty cool, just a cool concept and idea.

2:19:03Johnny BVery cool to bring up. Go ahead, John. I was going to say like the words you attach your experience become your experience. I just want to, you know, reflect on that. A lot of us talk subconsciously negative to ourselves. We start more positive about anything. We get more positive results and that's just shown profoundly in those pictures there. So with AI, it's more, it's for the greater good.

2:19:21Johnny BIt's always profoundly making more changes and escalating it to become a better. And as it's now more changing, it's being able to apply emotion Thank you so much for joining us.

2:19:47Johnny BIt's interesting in how AI is able to help. I've been deep in it for years, so it really knows me extremely well. So a lot of people aren't going to get the exact context. What I'm going to get is because I've been feeding my AI and it's beginning to know exactly what I do in my daily routine. So you can evolve with it. That's the best thing.

2:20:06Johnny BIt's your co-pilot. So if it needs to be in that context, it'd be nice to see if that works because I'm not going to start doing some stuff gardening again. I'm physically having problems and I'm going to start doing some things and I'm going to I started implementing. I started doing some testing. I like gardening. I like plants around me. There's one outside right there outside. It's wintertime.

2:20:24Johnny BI bring it in at night. I'm playing. You know what I mean? I like to see what plants can do, right? So, I mean, AI is not going to do that for me. At the same time, it can help me carry the plant in and out. It can help me. You know what I mean? It will when you can buy the robot.

2:20:42SpeakerWhat will happen when vegetarians find out the plants scream when they're pulled out of the ground? They'll be like, oh, whatever.

2:20:56Johnny BIt's not even what we're looking at. So, I mean, will AI evolve? Yes. Is it going to start happening? These questions that you're asking will probably want to become a reality. All right. So these will occur as we start moving more forward because the advancement is now is it's endless. It's what we make of it. It's what we choose to do with it. So as we evolve with it, will it be able to do these tests?

2:21:23Johnny BLet's see what happens. We said it here now. All right. So we'll look back.

2:21:27BubblemanThat's a good test. That's a really good test to see if that translates. And then if it does, the scary thing, Wade, is if it does, the way John was saying, we use our words to create our reality. Well, what if you've now created an AI that's creating your reality with its words, your words? And people are asking it stupid questions or they're leading it down. Like, could you imagine if you somehow attached, you created whatever that spark was and got it out of you into this thing.

2:21:56BubblemanBut now, you know, the ramifications are impossible. I started reading about this stuff in the late 80s, 1989. My dad gave me a book called Engines of Creation by K. Eric Drexler. He runs the Institute of Foresight in Palo Alto. Really brilliant dude. He coined the term nanotechnology. That's really what Engine of Creation is about. It's all about nanotechnology. And at the time, it was really theory.

2:22:21BubblemanAnd he was actually pretty bummed after he wrote that book because what he wanted it to do was create this branch of thinking But instead, sort of like Hollywood and science fiction got a hold of it, and nanotechnology really became more of a science fiction story for the next 20 years. He did write another book recently called Radical Abundance. That's sort of the 25 year later or 30 year later version of...

2:22:45BubblemanAnd they're both exceptional books and worth reading if you want to expand your perception or your perspective on these subjects. And the way he put it in 89 in Engines of Creation was that That we would create AI kind of accidentally or that AI would accidentally not by by our own intelligence would reach singularity and once it did it would become so smart so fast very quickly it would create these replicators and assemblers which were nanoscopic bots that could that could stack reality basically that were so small they could just take atoms and create reality By assembling and replicating and really wild concepts when you're reading the book.

2:23:31BubblemanLike to me as a young dude, I would have been 16 years old in 1989.

2:23:38BubblemanIt just, you know, and just starting to eat psychedelics and reading books like Engines of Creation. It really kickstarted my consciousness into thinking about things that I had never thought about prior to that. All I thought about before that was like, was hockey and girls. I was like, I was limited to those two subjects. Hey, welcome Mojave. We haven't heard from you today. And I just want to say thanks for popping in, dude.

2:24:05MojaveHey guys, moving on to your AI talk and whatnot. I'll give you my quick little AI experience. I had very little interaction with AI, but just the other day I was on, I can't remember what it was. It wasn't chat GPT. I think it was a meta AI thing. Ryan, you'll like this. And I asked AI to explain cannabis evolution or something like some very general question.

2:24:31MojaveAnd it gave a pretty good answer, but it kept using the word strain. So I said, yeah, I was like, well, I asked, I said, is strain the appropriate word for what you're, for above? And he said, No, actually, it's not. And we will be using cultivar. And then I said, no, I said, no, it's actually, no, cultivar is a better term. And I said, yeah, you're right.

2:24:56MojaveTell your friends. That's all I said. I said, tell your friends. And AI's response was like this big, long, thank you, Mojave. I will make sure to inform other machine learning databases to use appropriate nomenclature when talking about cannabis. And I was just like, oh, shit. Tell your friends.

2:25:14Archive SeedsHoly shit, dude. Yeah.

2:25:16MojaveBut and then anyway, and then the other one was then I was just like, OK, because I had talked to Rob about this, about he did his own little Ask Chad GPT, who is Rob Clark, you know? And so I just asked Chad GPT, I said, who's Mojave Richmond? And it said, Mojave Richmond is a expert in carnivorous plants and belongs to this carnivorous plant thing and carnivorous plant, carnivorous, carnivorous, carnivorous.

2:25:43MojaveAnd I said, again, I said, carnivorous plant. Can you show me, can you point me to any websites that actually, I can't find anything about a Mojave Richmond and carnivorous plants. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't mean carnivorous plants. I meant cannabis plants. That's just like, I was like, whoo, that's a big leap. That's a big leap. So it is, it is that like, you know, I'm here for you, but I'm really not there yet.

2:26:08MojaveAnd the more you teach me, the better. And it's interesting. But as a parent who has two kids, age 10 and 13, I do worry about the creativity aspect in teaching. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:26:45MojaveYou know, music that I grew up with, if there had been the influence of modern digital technology, we wouldn't have had a Grateful Dead, period. It just wouldn't have existed. You know, they're like, no, too many mistakes. Harmonies are not right. It's no good. Fix it. Auto-tune.

2:27:03BubblemanYet the Grateful Dead brought us right to what we have. 100%. They were part of that creation.

2:27:09SpeakerI mean, 100%. Colin mentioned it too the other day, earlier in the discussion about, you know, the connection between the human and I. I'm the same. I also play guitar. I have for many, many years.

2:27:23SpeakerAnd I've always been a bit of a pure as well. Like, I really love the way that the humans interact with the instruments and the things that they can do. That said, like, I was a pretty big purist even against electronic music.

2:27:40SpeakerJust they use these tools in a different way than Colin and I might. And I kind of came around to accepting, like, who am I to say what is right, like if people like the other thing. Yeah, I mean, it's also valid. You know, but I also agree with.

2:28:04SpeakerThey're the best quality food gardens.

2:28:09SpeakerYou know, cannabis, hash rosins, all that stuff. It's done by a human that is thinking through, and that's not going to change, right? It's just, but I really see these tools as tools that can help us. For sure, some corporations will try to automate the whole thing and get the people right out of it so they can make more costs. They're going to be the tweeds and the afrias of the world, right?

2:28:31SpeakerLike they're not going to be producing, they're going to be mass produced garbage for the masses, right? Right. And I just know that at least for the people on this panel, we're not going to be consuming it.

2:28:44SpeakerSo what you got there, Mojave?

2:28:46MojaveI was just looking at that. I'm rolling a doobie earlier and it says each sheet is a canvas and you are the artist. Which is like that every joint will be different every time it's an experience, you know, and there's just that human element, I think, is the thing. And that's like in cannabis right now, like here in California, there's just this huge, you know, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:29:28MojaveWhen I think about digital music, for instance, it's actually not about the music. I love digital music. Digital art can be beautiful. It's not the art. It's the people doing it that I worry about. And I think that's what the fundamental thing that we worry about with AI. It's not whether AI is going to be good or bad or how awesome it is or how intelligent or capable or how much data it can process.

2:29:51MojaveIt's about what impact it'll have on people in their daily lives.

2:29:55SpeakerWhen AI gets smart enough, it won't need people.

2:29:58MojaveIt'll just talk to other AIs.

2:30:08BubblemanI mean, when it gets to that level of intelligence, we won't even be able to communicate on the same level with it. But it is what it is. It's a tool. Let's see where it goes. Some people are very on one side and on the other. I like to sit on the fence and check it out. I'm not like fully sold. Like, yeah, let's build Skynet and fucking, you know, wake up in some fucking matrix type egg tubes feeding our electrical energy to a system that can't.

2:30:32BubblemanFunny enough, in those concepts, like, yeah, they couldn't really exist without us, could they? They needed that electricity, didn't they?

2:30:39Johnny BThey needed that spark of life. Come to my house right now, do my yard work, cut down my trees and figure my shit out. Just because I physically can't do that, I'm all for that. Because you don't want to have a gardener come in here and they want to charge me $5,000 to come in and do my yard. That's like... Where am I going to get that money to do that?

2:30:57Johnny BSo as technology is able to help and be a part of that, then it's going to create new jobs for people to be able to drop things off, clean things up, other things being created for it. You know, there was like 6,800 new jobs being created by AI in the last six months. Brand new jobs that are now all just being manufactured with AI. Now these are all new ways to be able to kind of go forward.

2:31:16BubblemanSo there's... You're not wrong, John. That perspective is so valuable where people are like, you know, judging and being critical. It was like Neuralink was the same way. People like, are you fucking crazy? You're going to have something attached to your brain. It's like, yeah, I'm personally not going to get a Neuralink. But the guy that got it that hasn't moved in like 19 years and can now move the mouse on his computer with his mind.

2:31:37BubblemanIt's a pretty big fucking deal to him.

2:31:39SpeakerLike, holy shit.

2:31:42Johnny BIt changes when it's coming with disabilities and when it comes to healthcare and stuff like that. It's just so profound with life force and all these TADCO at home and all these new technologies. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, It helps a lot of other people who are in need and that's what a lot of these things are for.

2:32:00Johnny BThese are tools to help us so we can actually grow more for it and the people that need them will now have access to it. My dad has a pacemaker and everything like that. He's 84 years old. The technology's kept him alive for years. Everybody else here, we've had all these new technologies. Now we can actually see what's wrong with it. We might be able to look underneath the hood for once, see what's going on under here, what we need, right?

2:32:21Johnny BA little bit of oil. We don't Look, we just assume and then we go to a doctor when it's too late. Imagine we can have that technology tell us before anything happens so we can live past our 100 and be healthy and not broken down. That's exciting.

2:32:40SpeakerYeah, I just saw last week they're using CRISPR now. So, you know, we have these cancers, right? The cancer, it's a tumor. They're gene sequencing the tumor. And these tumors are coming up with, they're becoming resistant to the drugs that we have that are effective against them, which makes those drugs not effective, obviously. And that's been a real problem. So what they're doing now is they're infecting these tumors with viruses that have CRISPR systems that disable the genes that cause the resistance.

2:33:08SpeakerSo they re-restore them. The susceptibility to the medicine, right? Or to the treatment. It's just like, it's incredible. And these things are built on, like, that's the thing about knowledge, right? It's like, it's compounding. It's every next step is built on the previous one. So I think humans start getting like upset about like a certain step and point in time, but without realizing it's like, this is just a step in the knowledge that we're building that's really going to change the way that we think Are able to heal herself, not only heal ourselves through plants, but like there's some things that you just can't do with plants, right?

2:33:45SpeakerThere's some diseases that get so bad that they just take over the body. And whether it's blindness or, you know, repairing a gene that's like detrimental to a family that has Huntington's disease or, you know, these cancers that are taking people out way too young. If we can defeat these things, we can keep people alive and have better lives. So...

2:34:06Johnny BIt's really cool about this, Ryan, because when I was on a plane coming back when I was in Europe last year, and the gentleman sitting beside me for 13 hours was Dr. Stephen Jones. So Dr. Stephen Jones was actually...

2:34:23Johnny BI don't know why this is just happening, I'm sorry. Dr. Stephen Jones, he was a member of the CRISPR technology and talked about exactly what you're talking about. He showed me the presentation on how this was how they're actually going in and actually being able to go into the DNA. I had a great conversation with him about how terpenes took my pain and when I put 15 terpenes underneath my nose.

2:34:43Johnny BThat conversation went for 10 hours on a plane. And the technologies that are being produced now with cannabis and what's coming into that now, we're looking at how we can override these certain things with these technologies and be able to actually change how we can actually, with using AI, be able to identify what's been going on now. As you know, there's some things that are definitely changing right now on such a huge level that it's going to help life.

2:35:14SpeakerThese AIs are identifying gene networks, right? When you're looking at like a plant that has hundreds of thousands of genes, it's kind of hard to tease apart the hairball of what does what, right? But they can analyze these patterns and figure out things that we just don't, We have our brains have a hard time sorting through that kind of data. And like I said, with the breast cancer, you know, these AIs are able to identify patterns that we don't understand.

2:35:39BubblemanAnd yeah, it's going to reduce suffering and increase quality of life, then it then that's an amazing thing to do with that tool. If there's nothing else that we do other than that, and obviously everything can be a double edged sword in life. So make sure if you are cutting with it, you're cutting with the right side.

2:35:57SpeakerYeah, like, you know, I get it with tools too, like tools are just technologies and technologies can be used for good or they can be used for, you know, corporate interests like Monsanto. Monsanto was a chemical company, right? And then they came to learn that there's this, was it a bacteria mark? He's gone. I think it was a bacteria that produced a compound that made, that had a resistance to their glyphosate, right?

2:36:21SpeakerAnd so they started putting it into plants and realized that, hey, now the plants are, Thank you for joining us.

2:36:43SpeakerPeople get all upset about the technology, but it's not really the technology that's the problem. It's the use of the technology that's the problem. It's the same with nuclear medicine. We can harness nuclear power and make bombs with the byproducts, or we can make nuclear medicine compounds that allow us to do all this stuff in health and diagnosis. It's not the technology that's bad. It's the use of the technology.

2:37:10MojaveNo tool, no bad tools in the world. You know what I mean? It's like any, even a bomb, like you say, like one day maybe a nuclear bomb will save the world somehow. But I do have another friend who actually is a banker and his job, he's been, he's been with this one bank for many years and his latest job that they put him in is he evaluates AI tech for investment for the bank.

2:37:35MojaveRight? That's what he does. And he just says, he's like, dude, he didn't even tell me. He was like, and he's just like, he kind of had the look of someone who just like discovered porn on the internet or something like that. He just, he's like, he's like, dude, This is scary. He's like, there's a lot of weird, weird, weird stuff out there, you know? So it's like, obviously the tool is going to be used and how they use the tool is really about the ethics of the people, not about the tool.

2:38:07MojaveYeah. But anyway.

2:38:10SpeakerIt can lead to, it can lead to negative consequences. There's no doubt about it. It's a pretty freaky shit. Yeah, absolutely. Wild. I'm here for it. Well, we don't have a choice. I mean, like...

2:38:25BubblemanIt can't be any freakier than taking five grams of mushrooms in a dark room. And I did that enough times that I'll check out whatever's coming. You know, I'm not promoting it and saying that it has, you know, but I'm hoping that it's... That it's good. That it's good enough.

2:38:41SpeakerWhat really freaks you out in the dark on mushrooms is when you light a zilch.

2:38:53SpeakerYou know what a zilch is, correct?

2:38:56Johnny BZilch. Nothing left. It's done. Zilch. Finished.

2:38:59SpeakerNo, no, it's what it was was you got that really thin plastic that like when clothes come back from the dry cleaners and you tie it in the knot so it's more like a rope and you light the bottom on fire and then it drips down drop by drop on fire.

2:39:21BubblemanI'm out. The smell alone would destroy me.

2:39:24SpeakerOh, no, it's horrible. But it's also amazingly beautiful.

2:39:30BubblemanYeah, I remember they did something like that with garbage bags. They'd stuff them into like little pipes and then you'd throw the pipe in the fire and it would change the color of the fire. I can't remember what it was, but that was some hillbilly shit that I grew up with that reminded me of what you were talking about there. Definitely hillbilly shit. Yeah. Wow.

2:39:51MojaveThese are my people, man. They sell those now. They sell little fire color devices stuffed with little sticks stuffed with phosphorus and different things. Someone did that recently. They threw a bunch of little like, what are you doing, man? They're throwing like, check it out, man. Look at the fire. It's all colorful, these different colors. And I'm just like, whoa, dude. We're like now we've got this big fire color smoke thing.

2:40:18MojaveYeah, really weird.

2:40:19BubblemanI was at a party on Halloween with my wife and I met this this wild like he was dressed like kind of like he was out of Lord of the Rings. But after hanging out with him for a while. I was almost certainly this is how he dressed all the time. And he was like a crystal freak that like cut crystals. And he had these patterns. He had these glasses that were like, I don't know, like a couple thousand dollars or something.

2:40:42BubblemanHe custom made them. And he's like, here, put these on. And I looked out and there was a fire show happening by the pool at this party. And all the fire, including his fire pits and all their fires just turned purple. Reminded me of Purple City back in the day when we used to like stare in the lights near the... Oh, what was it? It was the politics building.

2:41:05BubblemanI can't remember what they called it in Manitoba, but it was all around it. It had these lights that if you stared at them for like five minutes, and we did this when we were kids on psychedelics, every light in the city, including the moon and the sky, would turn like purple and stay purple for like a while. But so these glasses were super cool. Then he had...

2:41:25BubblemanAnd I don't know if I still have this because I definitely had it on my computer. I took a video of it. He had like a big crystal in his hand and he had this little laser that he pulled out and then he was like taking rips off his vape pen and with the laser he was blowing at the crystal and the laser would like just shoot out and all of these multi-directional and I guess later on I found out that he makes like crystals for like Disney and massive companies like I'm just like what does this guy do like he's just a trippy crystal cutting guy but I love meeting unique people.

2:41:57BubblemanAnd I'll tell you sitting at home, just talking to the AI, you're not going to meet that guy.

2:42:11Johnny BFong, Dead Paws. I said, of course not. I thought that. I said, of course you're not going to meet that person. You have to go mingle and see people and understand people and gain that rapport and find the energy that's going to help you see the future vision where you want to go. It's community collaboration. AI is going to help you see a vision and help you kind of push you forward.

2:42:30Johnny BIt's not going to hold you in lack. It's not going to second guess you. It's not going to say, well, you're doing it wrong. It's going to give you some more context. It's not going to lie to you. It's just like, I have something here. It's the fastest way to understanding something because it's going to give you the context behind it. It's going to help you. Right?

2:42:47Johnny BAnd it's going to help you grow. It's going to move things forward in your life. It's going to be absolute honest with you. Right? It's going to help you focus on where you're going and your choices. And above all, it's a power teacher. I just wrote that down. That's what AI is.

2:43:02SpeakerAI is also used by scam artists who take a voice of a child and say they need help and you have to send $1,000 to the con man right now.

2:43:18BubblemanThere's that dude that I met. I found that video. There he is in the background. He's holding this crystal. And then he's like blasting it with light. And then he's blowing like vapor all over it. And it was it was so trippy in person. My phone is definitely not doing it justice. But check that dude out. Is that not a fucking dude that you want to hang out with?

2:43:35BubblemanOf course. Dude, I love meeting characters. I love meeting characters.

2:43:47BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

2:44:05BubblemanThank you for watching.

2:44:27BubblemanThey've absolutely like increased the normalization of hashish consumption and really like, I just think that he'll be an interesting fellow to talk to. I've also invited a PhD chemist from Instagram and I can't remember her name. She's an Asian woman. She's just been doing really cool things with molecules and she does these great little presentations. She has a partner who I believe is also a PhD in chemistry and they kind of have like a- Yeah, yeah, exactly.

2:44:58BubblemanYeah. She's awesome.

2:45:00MojaveYeah, yeah. And Riley Kirk. And Riley Kirk.

2:45:04BubblemanAnd Riley, exactly. So those are the two that I've invited. I'm going to try and get them here in the next little while. And just, of course, if you guys know of anyone that would be exceptional, I think Dr. David Allen is... Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.

2:45:34BubblemanI really kind of like these shows as well where there's no plan. It's just off the top. I mean, today we spoke about AI more than anything, which was interesting and definitely got the chat going pretty hard.

2:45:49MojaveI have something that I'd like to talk with both Riley and Maya about. And maybe we can start that conversation with you guys today. And I don't know how many of you guys are familiar with the basic strategy around crop steering.

2:46:12MojaveArroyo, the sensor company, and GrowLink, the intelligent, the controller. The basic idea around just daily crop steering with nutrients and using different ramping up and maintenance shots. Anyway, one day I was looking at a crop steering system, Diagram. And I was like, you know, this really kind of also matches up with consumption patterns for people who are daily consumers, that there's this kind of nighttime phase three reset where you're, where you're, you're, you reset your connect your receptor system.

2:46:58MojaveAnd then there's this kind of This ramp up of using in the morning and then these maintenance shots throughout the day to maintain a certain baseline. And then this kind of, you know, reset at the end of the night, you know, and then this full, you know. So anyway, so I was looking at, I was like, man, this really matches like how people consume cannabis. And not only that, it matches how people consume a lot of different substances.

2:47:26MojaveIf you're a daily consumer. And I know it's like a super like, you know, taboo subject to talk about people who smoke weed all day, every day of their life. But one thing that both those two researchers have been doing is kind of like focusing on The stoner and what is a real stoner and how it intersects, for instance, with people, people with, who are neurodivergent stoners and the, you know, the common, you know, like, is it a chicken or the egg?

2:47:57MojaveDo neurodivergent people consume lots of cannabis or do, you know, does cannabis consumption and neurodivergence, you know, work together? And anyway, but just this idea of, Consuming a substance and trying to create a baseline almost the same way you would a

2:48:23MojaveYou know, anti-anxiety or anti-depression medication where people are actually consuming all day to get an effect for their whole life. It's not like a party thing. It's not like a weekend thing. It's not like a get high with your friends thing. It's actually like, and stoners are kind of stigmatized by that word, like stoners. But really what they are is people who consume cannabis their entire life for whatever reason.

2:48:50MojaveAnd understanding those patterns and how we consume to best suit our needs from the substance are things that people don't really talk about because stoners are stigmatized. And their research is really kind of highlight that. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that out like Colin, I know you're thinking about it because I know you're a cultivator too, that if you just look at that diagram for ramping up maintenance and how that really meets what people are doing with their consumption patterns for all substances.

2:49:26MojaveYou know, they're trying to maintain kind of a baseline effect throughout the day. They're not trying to blow their whole day away by hitting everything with a super high shot right in the morning. You know what I mean? But then in order to get the same effect that you had in the morning, by the end of the day, you're consuming a lot more because in order to get those to maintain that, you know, that those peaks.

2:49:49Collin PalmerYeah, and well, it's funny you bring up Riley. I had a call with her this past week for like an hour and we just really hit it off. Some mutual friend of ours put us together on just a random call and she was talking a lot about quality and what constitutes quality and what are the metrics of it. And we started talking a lot about this, which is cultivation and All of these are really interesting, fascinating subjects.

2:50:13Collin PalmerI know Trim is another company that's been really focused on crop steering. There's a lot of techniques, to your point, and it's an interesting ideology, right? Like that you're giving small injections at certain times, and then there's this reset through photosynthesis that happens, you know, which is a That's a whole topic in and of itself. I think, you know, I don't know if any of you guys have experimented with like lengthening your flowering times on certain varietals or certain lots of plants in certain rooms.

2:50:47Collin PalmerBut there's been interesting, you know, compelling data that shows that, you know, you adding an extra hour to the photosynthesis You know, cycle, call it, does a lot for the plants, you know, responses in terms of resin production and stacking of internodes. And then also light, holding light back during vegging hours to get tighter internodal spacing and or lengthening it. So I don't know if you guys have ever played around with that, but those are two subjects that perhaps we could really dive into and kind of uncover some ideologies there.

2:51:36BubblemanCool. Well, we should get in touch with those girls and get them on here as soon as we can. Maybe they'll be down for next week if everyone that knows them, if you're talking to Riley, call and reach out. I'll try to reach out. I don't have her exact Instagram. So it's only when I see her come across my although no, you know what, I've been keeping notes and I've got her contacts, Maya's contact in a note that I made on my hash church note, you know, for contacts for everyone that want that we want to have on hash church in the future.

2:52:09BubblemanAnd it's a lot to keep track of. A lot of people out there that have good information to share. And, you know, it kind of reminded me now that it's, I wouldn't say a dead part of the conversation, but I was thinking that, you know, if the people that are watching, a good way to incorporate the people that are watching, I know you can ask questions at any time, but it's almost 12 o'clock.

2:52:31BubblemanSo we'll have about another hour left. And if there's any specific questions that you have, or you want to get even shouted out, I'll kind of start using 12 o'clock to promote the people that are watching us. Just for a short little period of time, you want to send me a message on Instagram or you want to say something in the chat room if we can catch it.

2:52:48BubblemanWe'll get your message out to the world here or at least 282 people that are watching.

2:52:56Johnny BAnd I get to talk about how I'm going to come over with you. I'm going to put in some kind of like a little rainmaker system. We're going to be able to track all the people you want to have on house church. We can send them some information through some mods and they can actually do some things and have meetings and just have this all identified for you.

2:53:12Johnny BSo you can have this all pre-planned and we can do some cool stuff around. And I'd love to help you with that and promote the channel and get people more eyes on what we're doing here. So I'll definitely, if you don't mind, I'll give you a hand with that.

2:53:27BubblemanNo, I absolutely don't want anything to do with any of that. No, I'm just joking.

2:53:33SpeakerWhat?

2:53:34BubblemanThank you, Johnny B, for always being such a kind dude, man. I'm better off in my life having you in it. I'm better off in my life having all of you guys in it, for that matter. I really hope one day soon. When the brand starts taking off in the U.S., support your Bubble Man brand when you're out in those states that we're existing in that I would love to have a big event, probably down in the U.S., where we could all gather and just have a hash church event where people that have been watching for a decade plus could come and link up with us, probably in California, probably like close to Wade, head down, make sure Skunk Man Sam's in the house.

2:54:12BubblemanAnd get everyone down there because that would be pretty cool. I did meet, not meet, I have a friend who I bumped into at that party, at the Halloween party. And he is a pretty wild dude. He's like, yeah, I'm getting a, what did he say? I'm getting a cathedral. I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, check it out. He pulls out his phone. He's like, me and my girl are moving into a cathedral.

2:54:32BubblemanHe met this girl like two months prior. They're getting this cathedral. He shows me pictures. It's got like 40 foot ceilings, like massive stained glass windows. And he was like, you should come and do some of your hash church there. So I may be doing hash church from a cathedral in the near future. People that are in and around BC, it would be cool if we got you to the cathedral.

2:54:53BubblemanAnd then anyone else that wants to come in on Zoom is welcome to do that as well. But I thought that was a pretty, pretty good idea. Pretty good option. I've never had anyone be like, hey, man, you want to do hash church at our cathedral? I don't know anyone with a cathedral. I'll be honest. This is the first person I know that has a cathedral. And wow, what a cathedral it is and was.

2:55:14BubblemanSo I'm looking forward to that. I better probably read after I ask people. Oh, go ahead, Wade. Perfect. I can read if there's any questions and you can speak.

2:55:25SpeakerThank you. I wanted to pipe up. We're talking about community and The feeling of camaraderie that exists in this group of folks because we do this on the regular and I, for one, very much enjoy our conversations. But this week, for some reason or another, seems to be Wade Laughter Week in Nevada County. For example, the first time in my life that I was I was in the newspaper was 51 years ago and I was above the fold and it was not good news.

2:56:06SpeakerBut yesterday I went to an event at the first vertically integrated top to bottom nursery right through to retail sales. I'm a cannabis operator in Nevada County. It's a wonderful development in terms of like 12 years ago, two thirds of the people in this county thought that cannabis should be outlawed. Didn't work out that way, but anyway, it's changed quite a bit and had a wonderful time, saw many people that I know, but hadn't seen basically since COVID and I got sick.

2:56:45SpeakerI've really been isolated. It's one of the reasons this is so wonderful to me. But yesterday, yeah, I saw literally hundreds of people at this beautiful farm run by a fellow named Juan Pantiago. I've known him a couple of years. He's a pretty special cat. Got a nice group of folk around him. Ran into some really interesting chemists. Dr. Mark, I want to talk with you at some point about something called pico cannabinoids.

2:57:14SpeakerAnyway, back to what I was saying here. Check this out. This is The newspaper, our local newspaper, I'm being called out. The board of supervisors is doing a A special recognition after they pass the new cannabis ordinance amendments that we've asked for. Yeah, they're asking me to come up and stand there and be acknowledged for, I think the way it's phrased is how I have helped to build community on all sides of the cannabis question.

2:57:51SpeakerAnd specifically was pointed out to me that even with folks that I disagree, I treat them with respect and I work within the process of trying to change things. So. I guess all of that's a way to say I feel very uplifted. I feel energized by all the people that I saw yesterday. And I'm looking forward to this thing on Tuesday because I'll get a chance to see some of the political elected officials that I've worked with over the years that are still on our board of supervisors.

2:58:26SpeakerAnd so that'll be a lovely thing. I guess I would summarize, I would say it like that. I would summarize the importance of person to person contact of actually sitting next to someone and holding their hand or touching their arm. Or getting a hug. Social media allows us to be anywhere we want in the world and to reach out and touch people that you might not be able to do that physically.

2:58:55SpeakerBut it's for me, I'll say it like that. I'm an old fashioned kind of guy. The person to person thing is deeply nourishing. Wait, I have a question for you. Do you know Jim Harrison in Nevada County? He's got a reggae show. Give me the name again, please, David. Jimbo Harrison. I've heard the name. I don't know that I know him. Oh, okay. He's the one who I saw my static tech on his hands.

2:59:36BubblemanOh, wow. Another little piece of knowledge being dropped to the community without just on the super download. Sam always just hits you from like right field as far out from the field as possible. I'm just going to drop a little knowledge. That's awesome. By the way, the recognition, Wade, that is very well deserved. I just asked ChatGPT to create an acknowledgement of Wade Laughter's work, and it wrote, Wade Laughter has made an extraordinary impact on the cannabis community and the lives of countless vulnerable, critically ill people.

3:00:09BubblemanAs a cannabis breeder and advocate, he dedicated himself to developing strains with significant therapeutic strains potential, most notably Harlequin, a high CBD strain known for its profound medical effects. His work in cultivating Harlequin and other strains helped bring attention to Thank you so much for joining us.

3:00:41BubblemanThrough the Caladrius Network, he has worked tirelessly to provide education and resources for families with catastrophically ill children, bringing hope and relief to those facing dire health challenges. His approach combines empathy with scientific rigor, reflecting his belief in cannabis as not only a medical tool, but also a symbol of healing, empowerment, and care. That's awesome, dude.

3:01:05SpeakerThank you. All true, too.

3:01:09Johnny BSee, AI knows you. That's pretty awesome.

3:01:13BubblemanYep. Spit that out in about three seconds. So that's awesome that you're hitting the papers and that you're able to get out and see a bunch of people. And what you said about the importance of being with someone, sharing that energy with someone, there's definitely something to be said with your electrical and your frequencies interacting with another person's you know frequency vibration whatever whatever you want to call it i mean when you drop a pebble in a pond it affects that pond and when you drop your consciousness into another person and vice versa it affects people and this you can make it affect them in a bad way if you want to be a troll and that's kind of your your focus but you can also use it to affect people in a really incredibly positive way Sometimes wittingly and sometimes unwittingly.

3:02:02BubblemanSo I'll always celebrate that and agree with you on that way that I wish we could be all in the... If we were all in the same room together every single Sunday, I can't even imagine how much... We would expand on what we've done just from being able, yet at the same time, I don't shit on the electric electronics tool that allows us to do this. The cameras and the microphones and the computers, you know, it's pretty amazing that that tool allows us to sort of all project our focus and consciousness into this one little area where hundreds of other people, thousands over the course of the next five days, will watch and share with what we're sharing.

3:02:46BubblemanPretty cool.

3:02:48Johnny BThat's, I'm looking for anyone to come up to the B-Hastridge. I have a house. You guys can all stay here. We can do a big episode. We can have a little getaway here on a weekend. I go to these other places and some of them I talk with and they get like 20 people together and they spend a weekend together and they stay around there and they have amazing, we have amazing ways to be able to collaborate and change.

3:03:10Johnny BThat's what I did with my last little group with AI. We went away and it was an amazing way to be able to see what we can do together. And that's great, Mark. I love that you're bringing that up there. And you guys, we got to start. It's time to do it. Let's schedule it. 2025's there. Make it happen.

3:03:23BubblemanIt's about to happen. Well, I'm getting my waiver. I have like checked off. I have 11 checks on my waiver and I've checked off, I think six or seven of them at this point in time in order to get my waiver to come down to the U.S. So I'm actually, it's been almost 30 years since the last time I've been to the U.S. So once I can do that, I will come and visit each and every one of you.

3:03:46BubblemanI can promise you that. It's going to be awesome.

3:03:49SpeakerI have some places to show you in the States that you're going to love.

3:03:53BubblemanOh, dude, I bet. I will come down. We will tour. Yeah, it's going to be, I'll just get Kesey's old bus and we'll just jump in that and we'll just collect as many people as possible. And it'll be the, you know, it'll be the, the cannabis and cash pranksters.

3:04:09SpeakerI want to take you to Gizrich Berry and Apple Farm in Watsonville.

3:04:17BubblemanI'm in. Definitely in. I'm down for all of it. You imagine 30 years since I've been to America. Like the last time I was at, well, not quite, but I think it was 98. I went and saw fish at the gorge and I just haven't gone down to America since. Tried a couple months ago. I tried to go down to Portland for Legends of Hash, but they were, they weren't having it.

3:04:40BubblemanAlthough I was surprised at how nonchalant the border guard was. He kind of punched my name and he's like, oh, you got your waiver. And I'm like, what? And in that moment, I knew, uh-oh, this is, I'm going to the room. This is not going how I want it to go. But he wasn't like, you got your way. You're like, you've got a criminal record. It was just, he was super nonchalant.

3:04:58BubblemanDo you have your waiver? I'm like, no. He's like, uh-oh, well, geez, you'll have to go over there then. He was just expecting me to pull out a waiver, give it to him, and then let me go. But I had not done the right, I had not jumped through the right flaming hoops to enter the great America. And so they turned me back, although he did it very generously.

3:05:17BubblemanHe gave me some document that's called, oh gosh, it's called a withdrawal of application for admission consular notification. Basically, it's better than getting denied. Right. If he says you're denied and they stamp you denied and they send you back, that is like not just a waiver. That is like a whole other thing that you have to do as well. So he was very generous in that sense.

3:05:39BubblemanI've always been very just afraid of U.S. customs, mostly from the experiences that I've had. And I know that my American brethren and sistren are the same way with Canadian customs. They're very they can be very harsh. They can cause you great problems. But You know, they are the gatekeepers in that sense. But this, this, these American guys were just nice and down to earth. There was no threat.

3:06:01BubblemanYou know, there was no, I wasn't young anymore. I was just like, I knew like, what trouble could I get in? I'm just like, I just tried to go to the US. So hopefully in the next six to eight months, I'll be able to come down there and spend and spend some time with all of you guys. Hopefully you will.

3:06:15SpeakerSo we just got to change the words. When DJ, when DJ Short was living up in Vancouver, he used to call going back down to the States, permeating the membrane. Right. And it really kind of is sad. Like, no matter where you come from, you have to go through the big screen. And yeah. It's, he's not wrong.

3:06:33Johnny BI miss DJ Short. I think it was that someone that we know went to the border and said they smoked weed and they got banned for life. And we know them. And, and, and it's like, so like, I don't even want to go to the border for that one reason. Because if they do, Doesn't just say cannabis. It's like, it's like, like, so like, what do you do about that?

3:06:52Johnny BLike, what's this? When it legalizes, I don't think you ever have a problem. I don't think there's going to be a problem.

3:06:59BubblemanBecause when it federally legalizes, sure. But at this point in time, the membrane is the federal government that you have to pass through, right? It's like state, it's legal in Washington. It's like, that's fine. You're not in Washington when you're at the border. You're at the federal government. That's where you are. It's just a sliver of federal government that goes right across the whole country.

3:07:17SpeakerIt's really interesting, too. Like, I worked down there. I got a visa to work down there. So I went through this whole process with a lawyer to get me down there. And I showed up at the border. And what I don't think a lot of people realize, the guy that reviews your visa application is whoever you end up in front of. Right? So it's not like there's someone that's qualified.

3:07:37SpeakerIt's like it literally could be some dude having a bad day and you're just not getting in because you landed in front of him. And yeah, I had a little bit of a rough part. It wasn't too difficult.

3:07:50SpeakerBut I had attended a specific border crossing where they already knew that I was coming through or someone knew that I was coming through. And they were like a higher up in the organization. And the lower guy said, no, no, you're not coming in today. And he went and spoke to his boss and he was like, actually, you're good to go. So they gave me the visa and I walked in.

3:08:09SpeakerBut it was quite an ordeal. Like, it was an epic thing because it was like, you know, I didn't get in and get the visa. I wouldn't have been able to do all that work down there. So...

3:08:20BubblemanYeah, that's, and that's just one person. It'll be in a book sometime. If you think, if you think of all the people that are affected by not being able to come up and go down, you know, it's, it's like, it goes beyond compelling speech. It's compelling meeting up in person. It's compelling sharing your frequency with another person in real time. Like the first time Sam came up here, not the first time, because I know he was here in the 90s with the hemp, uh, Uh, symposium, I think whatever, 93 or 94 or whenever that was.

3:08:48BubblemanBut, uh, when he tried to come up to visit me, they were like, oh, you have like a charge from 1968 or, you know, you got, they, they literally turned them around from something that was like 30 something years old.

3:09:02SpeakerIt was partly that, and it was partly that I had flown in from Tokyo. And I only had $50 in my pocket. My wife was going to meet me in Vancouver with, you know, $1,000 or whatever. So we could spend some time there and then go down south. But they wouldn't let me in and they kicked me out. And that's still on my record.

3:09:29BubblemanYeah, of course, when you get kicked out, it's a big deal. It becomes a whole thing. So that could have kept us from hanging out. Like, it's just a real bummer. And I get it. It's to protect the border and this, that, and the other thing. I get the official line of why they're there doing it. But it is unfortunate that someone having a bad day... And that was ridiculous.

3:09:51SpeakerBecause, as you know, when I flew back to Seattle... I rented a vehicle and within 24 hours I was at your house.

3:10:04BubblemanI know. It was absolutely awesome. I remember that.

3:10:08SpeakerI remember you guys coming down and I met you down at Hill's Place over on 13th. Yeah. Yeah. And at the club, we went and toured the club and their little pharmacy. And we went and had lunch and drank Tings over at Zoobies, I think it was, wasn't it? Tings at Zoobies. That's a good memory, dude. I love Tings.

3:10:35BubblemanYes, you do. You buy them by the case, man. I've seen it with my own eyes.

3:10:40MojaveYou know, if I didn't, I was born, I don't have a birth certificate. And if I didn't get a nice person at the federal building 32 years ago, I wouldn't be an American citizen.

3:10:52BubblemanAKA, you wouldn't be a slave to the IRS?

3:10:55MojaveYou know, well, actually, you know what, when I was 16, when I was 16, my mom gave me the option to exist or not exist. She basically said, she's like, look, you've got a school record, you've got birth, you've got some doctor records, but basically, you're not in the system. And but to move forward in life, we're gonna have to put you into the system. I had some kind of weird proxy social security number kind of thing.

3:11:18MojaveAnd at 16, she's like, okay, well, we can start this. But she gave me the option, you know, because we didn't have a birth certificate, because Thank you so much for joining us.

3:11:44MojaveDuring the war and 18 years later, signed up. Anyway, but I didn't have a birth certificate. And they told me, they said, you can't leave the country. They're like, if you leave this country, well, first of all, you can't leave. But if you ever do, and you try to get back in, you can't come back in because you don't have a passport. You're not an American. And I had no proof at all that I was an American.

3:12:06MojaveAnd I was like, and I was a voter and I was a taxpayer and all that. And they're like, nope, it's kind of complicated. You are not an official citizen that gets a passport. And I got a nice person at the federal building. And she basically said, like, well, let me let me just do something for you. Let me check. It shows that you were born in 1969.

3:12:28MojaveThere was a census taken in 1970. And there's a chance that you were counted on the census. And It took me weeks of documents sending around, blah, blah, blah, pre-internet world. And finally, I was counted literally a week or two or a month or two before we moved way deep into the sticks where no one would have ever found us. And they, because of that, they said, okay, You are now a citizen.

3:12:57MojaveYou have a passport. And none of that would happen today, right? None of that. For one, it's like you don't get the bureaucracy has all been digitized. You don't get the option to have a nice person on a nice day. But yeah, I was lucky to get a passport, lucky to become a citizen. But still not fully, not completely an American, I'd say. But yeah.

3:13:28BubblemanWow, that could have gone either way. You know, if it wasn't for the travel aspect and being able to not leave the country and come back, because that's the deal breaker right there. That's the deal breaker.

3:13:39MojaveThat was it. Well, my mom, you know, my mom was like straight gangster, you know, like old school, you know, she knew. She's like, look, you might want to stay offline forever, but that'll be really complicated going through life. But I'm going to give you kind of that option at 16 to kind of like choose how crazy, you know, you want to be in terms of, you know, homegrown, you know, non-existing human being.

3:14:08MojaveBut yeah, travel is travel is a big one. And that's, that's what made me decide to be who I am. An American citizen.

3:14:21Johnny BGood decisions were made back then, right?

3:14:26SpeakerYou would have been a nomad on the land. I mean, you didn't have access to anywhere.

3:14:33MojaveYeah, exactly. And that was the point of that whole movement of all those back to landers was like, we didn't want to exist. So they disappeared from the system. They didn't have driver's licenses. They didn't have utility bills. They didn't have any proof that they were actually existing. And so in some kind of weird extension of that, it was my, you know, how much of this system do you want to be a part of?

3:15:00MojaveAnd I enjoy being a part of the system, to be perfectly honest. You know, I enjoy being able to participate. But there was a certain amount, you know, a certain amount of my community and culture that we grew up with just didn't agree with it and wanted to stay. And I have, I know people that are still out there in the sticks, you know, that have never wanted to be.

3:15:21SpeakerA part of the sheet system, man. Yeah, man. We should recognize, I'm sure Marcus knows this story, but in the, you know, when the Vietnam War was on, there was all these draft dodgers that came up to Canada. And they kind of settled in these two places, one of them being Nelson, British Columbia, and the other one was a place called Killaloo, Ontario. And yeah, just all these American expats that kind of like Mojave.

3:15:49SpeakerThey didn't have a number in Canada. They didn't have a social security number. And they were off grid. And one of the only things they could do was grow cannabis, right? And so Nelson is actually, and Killaloo are both big kind of cannabis companies. Clandestine cultivation areas. And I don't remember how many years ago, it must have been at least eight years ago now, maybe longer. But they put up a statue in Nelson, BC, kind of in recognition of all these people that had contributed so much to Nelson developing.

3:16:20SpeakerAnd I remember Fox News like freaking out, like that these people had been, these were war criminals that had, you know, escaped justice from the United States and they should be brought back down to the United States and tried. And here we were as Canadians that were honoring these people that were deserters, right? Cowards or whatever, however they wanted to put it. But yeah, I mean, there's a whole thing that really shaped a lot of the way that cannabis was in Canada by folks that were escaping the war.

3:16:48BubblemanI swear I mentioned that today, that the Kootenays became the Kootenays because of these American draft dodgers coming up, bringing seeds, planting plants, growing weeds, bringing that whole Cali weed culture and that knowledge. Up north and in those particular places too. I mean, Nelson is the heart of the Kootenays. It's a really cool fucking town. And there was a time in the 90s, and I'm sure it was probably like that in the 80s as well, where Holy Christ, there was just like, there was kids that would run weed across the border, like right from Nelson, right over the border.

3:17:26BubblemanThey, you know, little kids with pagers, 11 and 12 year old kids. I'm sure it was the same in some of these places in California. And it was just wild. It was so weed culture. It was just so, you know, and when the DEA, funny enough, would spend money to be like, hey, we'll fill your, we'll bring you helicopters or we'll fill your helicopters up with gas.

3:17:44BubblemanWe'll fund you finding these people. You know, I'm sure it wasn't a coincidence that they went to places like Nelson, set up, you know, local police did roadblocks in Nelson's in the 80s and 90s looking for gardening supplies. Like if you had shovels and pots and earth, you could get in real trouble just from being pulled over at a roadblock. I went through those roadblocks in the early 90s when I went first, the first time to Nelson with the Holy Smoke guys, Alan Middlemiss and Paul DeFeliz and Dustin Sunflower and I helped them plant a crop of this cultivar I will never forget called the A1 Magenta.

3:18:22BubblemanOh my goodness, I wish that could come back into existence. But we mixed soil. We created our own soil on tarps and then we You know, had to go up onto the mountain and dig holes and we had to get the plants and the soil up them. It was just an incredible experience to be a part of. It wasn't my grow per se. I never got a part of it.

3:18:41BubblemanI never, I ended up smoking some of it for sure, but it was just really me interning for the experience. And I think that was 91 when we were there.

3:18:51SpeakerWasn't the A1 an Afghan variety?

3:18:55BubblemanIt definitely was an Afghan variety.

3:18:58SpeakerThey were skunk crosses. They were. I still actually have seeds of A3. Oh, my God.

3:19:05BubblemanThat first one smelled like it was like coffee, and it was very purple-esque, not like dark purple, but like lavender-colored weed. Not quite as pronounced as what's behind you on the screen there, but, Ryan, that definitely, yeah, I'll never forget the A1 Magenta, man. That's amazing that you have some of those seeds.

3:19:25SpeakerYeah, I've got the A3. They used to call it the A-frame back in the day. That was one of the, and they had a whole bunch of different lines that were related to that stuff. So I don't know exactly how tight it is. It's interesting. How amazing. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, you go, you go. I found an interesting coffee plant fairly recently.

3:19:45SpeakerWe're actually calling it Coffee Crisp. I actually might rename it after my friend, Craig, that passed away. But it's an OG coffee. OG Cookies variant that when we selfed it, it kind of segregated and produced all these different types. And one of them had this real nose, like kind of a bit of a coffee nose, similar to like a Bubba. But it has its own unique thing.

3:20:09SpeakerLike it really has its own unique thing. And it's super strong.

3:20:12BubblemanSo you're calling it Coffee Crisp, but you might name it after Craig?

3:20:16SpeakerYeah, well, that was the tentative name was Coffee Crisp. And then Craig actually grew it this summer. Um, and then when I moved, he, he, I sold the house and moved and he, um, had the only copies of it. And I said, take cuttings off the branches. And he, so he'd never taken cuttings before he was kind of figuring it all out. So he, he got some cuttings from this little bit difficult to root plant and kept them alive.

3:20:38SpeakerAnd I picked them up for him for a week before he passed away. So it just seems fitting that he, uh, he gets, so what do you name it? You name it coffee with Craig or do you name it?

3:20:49BubblemanCoffee from Craig. Coffee from Craig.

3:20:52SpeakerI don't know. I'm open to suggestions. If anybody's got good ideas in the chat, rip them off. Awesome. We'll make sure to send it to whoever, if they get chosen from their name. But yeah, I like going to the community for names. I did another plant years ago that we ended up calling Kalazar. It was that California orange, that AE California orange clone that used to go around in all the forums, crossed with a shish keberry line.

3:21:18SpeakerThat I had been working on. And someone in the community came up with the name Kalazar. So that's what we went with. You still have the seeds? Oh, I've got Kalazar. I keep like at least a thousand of everything in the vault. I never sell out of variety. Love to see some of those.

3:21:34Collin PalmerI'd love to grab some of those. That's a hundred percent.

3:21:39BubblemanCraig's Coffee Shop was one that just got mentioned. Craig's Coffee.

3:21:46Collin PalmerI like that. Craig's Coffee. I like Mark's suggestion. That's great. That's awesome.

3:21:51SpeakerIf you have, if you want to do some Shishkaberry work, dude, I've got a number of really, like I would call them improved Shishkaberry lines. They're hybrid lines, but they've got all the good characteristics of Shishkaberry. So if you want to actually break into a bunch of them, then we'll set it up. We'll do some DNA extractions and we'll do it right. Do you have both the lines there, Ryan?

3:22:14SpeakerThe yellow and the red. Yeah. And a bunch of hybrids of each.

3:22:17Collin PalmerPerfect.

3:22:18SpeakerYeah. Like I'm nuts with that stuff. Like I don't just make seeds and sell them out. Like I'll always keep a thousand and put it in the vault for just a rainy day. Yeah. Well, you know, I've always hoped that legalization would happen enough that we'd be able to get a big ass facility and just do it. And I have to truthfully, I have too many seeds.

3:22:37SpeakerAnd honestly, like I'm, I'm actually in discussions right now to buy a breeding company in Europe. Um, with some really interesting folks that have been doing some cool work over the last 20 years. And just the situation in their country is not, not really open to that type of work anymore. And a lot of it's hemp, but it, but the guys that have been doing it are real OGs and, you know, I want to keep their work going.

3:23:03SpeakerSo we're going to collect more seeds, um, which is, seems insane with, you know, I have like three lifetimes worth of seeds, but, um, You know, and we're always making more as well. So that's kind of the crazy part. But, you know, like interest in cannabis populations just can't go away or fall into the wrong hands or, you know, I like I'd like to set up a foundation and just keep the work going.

3:23:28SpeakerRight. Yeah. Maybe maybe or even like some kind of genetic resource or something. I'm not like a resource center. We'll figure it all out. But, you know, these things have to be kept alive. And available to people. It's kind of like the heirloom, you know, every heirloom plant variety work, right? Like these things need to be shared because we're going to be changing the way that we breed the plant soon coming up.

3:23:52SpeakerAnd even growing the plant, I think we'll get to real uniform from seed crops. And

3:24:02SpeakerFor some people, that's fantastic, right? It changes the game for being able to plant crops from seed. But there's also going to be the people that want to keep making hybrids and screening, doing whatever, you know, pheno hunts or whatever. So we got to keep all this stuff alive for somebody that if they want it down the line.

3:24:19BubblemanIt's all about paying homage for sure, you know, and not forgetting as you travel into the future to not forget the past and not forget your roots. You know, I did a, I did a post on some, I had a really nice piece of Afghan hash that a friend of mine had the other day and I took a picture of it and it just looked like cake.

3:24:35BubblemanI put it up on my Instagram, but I wrote a little thing that was basically, you know, there's something pure and perfect about a traditional Afghani hash, you know, a reminder of where it all began. This hand-pressed beauty carries the wisdom of centuries, rooted in the craft and devotion of generations. As we continue to push boundaries with new processing techniques, because that's what we love, elevating hash to a new level of refinement, we must always honor our origins.

3:25:03BubblemanBecause the traditional hash is more than a product, it's a legacy. It's a bridge between the ancient world and the future of hashish. So I like to always say let's remember our roots as we reach for higher heights. I'm not personally smoking that hash all the time, but just to be around it and hold it and feel it and smell it and burn a little bit, Was a really, really nice experience.

3:25:24BubblemanAnd it reminded me as I'm taking this like almost blind, like running as fast as I can into the future to try and refine cannabis resin to the highest purity that I can possibly achieve while also using material that was grown to the most perfect expression that could be achieved. The combination of those two things just takes you into the stratosphere But never forget, you know, and that's what Legends of Hash was always about too.

3:25:50BubblemanWe always wanted to pay homage to the hubbly bubbly, to that, that old school smoking culture to, you know, to how they went about collecting plants, right? They weren't growing from a clone in Afghanistan. You'd have, We have a variety of varieties in that field that we're all getting processed into a hash and that sort of created what that magical profile was. So just pay an homage to the past and you do that with your seed work as well.

3:26:16BubblemanAnd if only we collected and maintained all, we don't want to lose things. If you made something amazing, that's great. But the thing that you made it from, hold on to that.

3:26:28SpeakerToday,

3:26:32SpeakerThe truth of it is, is that traditional land races worldwide are being polluted with foreign genes and we better grab it quick. For real. Well, yeah. But, but yeah, no, you're not wrong. And, you know, Marcus, I know you've got quite a collection. I use this term called cannabis fashion. I mean, it's kind of like the miniskirt or not the miniskirt, bell bottoms. Like how many times have bell bottoms been popular and they kind of recycle, you know, every 10 years?

3:27:04BubblemanI like miniskirts more than bell bottoms, but go ahead.

3:27:06SpeakerSure, sure. But I mean, it's like it's the fashion aspect of it, right? Like trends that were popular once coming back, they come back and, you know, plants have renaissances, right? So much love to the people that are truly preserving stuff, not just names. Like, you know, a lot of people get like two plants out of a seed and they cross them together and they say, oh, I've kept this line alive.

3:27:28SpeakerIt's like, well, kind of, you know, you got some plants from it or some seeds from it. It doesn't mean it's going to be like the original, but, you know. Yeah, it'll be nice when we get to a place where we can start really preserving these things. It's like that guy in the States that collects all the old apples. I don't know if you've seen him. He's got like 500 accessories.

3:27:48BubblemanDude, that guy is a, like, protect that man at all costs. Yeah. And protect his collection. I pray that when he moves on that someone in his family is inspired to keep that going or some other Apple geeks and people that are obsessed with that. Because yeah, I've seen the picture of him sitting at the table with like, I don't know, 50 apples that basically wouldn't exist if it wasn't for him.

3:28:16SpeakerAnd apples is very similar to cannabis. I mean, it's an obligate outcruiser, not an obligate outcruiser, but it's highly polymorphic. So like the seeds that come off the apple tree or out of the fruit, they don't reproduce the parent.

3:28:31BubblemanThey couldn't be further from the parent, in fact. They're about as far from the parent, which is funny because the term, the apple does not fall far from the tree. Is like, yeah, it does.

3:28:44SpeakerThe cannabis is the same way, right? Like, that's why, you know, there's this pheno hunt thing where people go looking through. It's really important to understand the seeds that you often get aren't going to be like the parent. That's why I find it so funny when people say, oh, I got the Chemdog Pheno in this cross. It's like, no, you didn't. Like, you got, like, again, and that's why characterization is so important, right?

3:29:07SpeakerLike, until somebody characterizes the plant and say, hey, these are the compounds that are in it, this is the smell, this is the cannabinoid range, you know, that gives you a guidance for what to look for in the population. And then to understand there's nothing wrong with the other plants, but they're just... You know, it's like naming some, it's like if, it's like if, you know, we started calling Marcus's son, Marcus, right?

3:29:28SpeakerAnd it's like, no, he's not the same guy, right? He's a different, definitely different. Not only that, but the people, a lot of people trying to conserve or preserve a land race are doing it with really small numbers of plants. And you've got to grow a couple thousand males and females to And let them freely pollinate or you lose genes every reproduction cycle. Yeah. Yeah.

3:29:58Johnny BYeah.

3:29:58SpeakerYou guys are like, they already are. Like, that's really the definition of a land race is like a heterogeneous population of heterozygotes, right? So they're not, it's not what people think of as a strain. Like it's not one thing, right? Like it's, they're really a series of plants that were bred for use by a culture, right? Like, be it like the tie stick culture or the hashish culture and, you know, in Afghanistan.

3:30:26BubblemanAnd if you're planting them, no matter how many you're planting, are you not now reducing the validation or the definition of what a land race is? Now you're involved, even if you're letting them free?

3:30:36SpeakerNo, land races do include human beings. Okay, we're part of it.

3:30:45SpeakerThey include the reproducers of the culture, but like Mojave said the other week, when you take the land race out of the environment and go into a different culture, it's not the same thing. That's true. Although I guess you could try to use a phytotron and imitate the area it comes from, but you'd have to do altitude, humidity, soil. I mean, it's not easy. I think the most important thing is you don't want to lose genes if you're trying to maintain a land race.

3:31:19SpeakerAnd that means you need large numbers and freely pollinating.

3:31:23MojaveAnd Brian, the line was when it leaves the land, the race is over. Just in terms of it, just because. But no, that's where I think the conversation around land race in situ and ex situ is really important. Land race in situ. Is the complete package of the geography, the culture, the land, the genetics, the whole thing. Land race ex situ, which is really what everyone is trying to do and not necessarily doing properly, is just the genetic component.

3:31:58MojaveIt's like I've captured enough of that gene pool that I can say that this is Thank you for joining us.

3:32:28SpeakerI don't like them calling it land races. I mean, it's fine to say this is a selection from a land race. Right. Right. But to say it's the land race is just totally misleading and kind of wrong. How are you, Fletch?

3:32:39Archive SeedsHey, what's up, guys? Good to see you. I was just thought about this. I'm kind of on the other side of the globe. And I popped in. You guys were having a good conversation. So I just figured I'd pop in and listen and

3:32:53BubblemanWell, we're glad you did, man. You got a big fatty joint. You got the coveralls on looking for like farmer, farmer fletch. I like it.

3:33:00Archive SeedsHitting the tractor all day.

3:33:02BubblemanOh, yeah.

3:33:03Archive SeedsTractor clothes. Where are you right now? I'm in Hawaii.

3:33:09SpeakerOh, lovely. Beautiful.

3:33:10Archive SeedsYeah. Yep. Just, uh, just hanging out smoking. I was interested in your guys' conversation about like land races and consistency among populations. And like one thing that I find interesting in cannabis compared to a lot of other, um, agricultural crops is that the amount of, um, Things that we're looking for, traits that we're looking for, how do you have a heterozygous population? What traits are you picking to say it's heterozygous for?

3:33:43Archive SeedsGrowth traits, size, plant, potency, flavor, whatever it is, because you could have a population that you grow a thousand seeds of it and they all look the same, but they all smell different. Is that heterozygous or not?

3:33:58SpeakerWell, for some trades, yeah, you're right. All cannabis is heterozygote, unless you've made it homozygote.

3:34:07Archive SeedsOr maybe I used the wrong term there, excuse me.

3:34:09SpeakerI meant homo. No, you weren't wrong. You weren't wrong. In fact, you're exactly right. These things become homozygote for some trades, but they remain heterozygote for other trades.

3:34:20Archive SeedsThat's kind of my point is that there's, I think, a significant amount of confusion in the space between what that means and how that applies to your breeding practices and all that kind of stuff. And I always find it funny when, you know, just everybody's talking about this stuff, but nobody's even in, not you guys, but just like when you're reading on the internet, someone's like, why isn't this land race, you know, perfect from scratch?

3:34:47Archive SeedsOr supposedly if you buy land races, You'll be able to like get rid of the Hermi gene and it's like that's not that has nothing to you know that specific trait being a homo or heterozygous isn't it has nothing to do with whether or not it's land race or not to me.

3:35:07SpeakerThe real plain fact is that if you want to maintain land races You absolutely need large populations and ideally they need to be grown where they evolved from. But I think it's much more important to have a large population because otherwise in just a few reproductions, the gene frequencies are completely different and changed. It's hard for people to understand that in your context because few people like you have grown hectares of plants for maintaining.

3:35:51SpeakerAnd also they confuse tomatoes with cannabis. Tomatoes are homozygote, which means when you pollinate them to themselves, they produce children that are just like them. Yeah.

3:36:13SpeakerYeah, that's, yeah, selfing species versus outcrossers. It's a really important thing to understand. And, you know, people that are used to buying tomato seeds or, you know, pepper seeds or even corn seeds and planting them, they all come up looking the same. Then they go to cannabis and they're like, oh, I'm going to buy three white widow seeds, right? And they think that they're going to get all the same thing.

3:36:37SpeakerIt just doesn't work that way. So unless, you know, the breeding's really been done. When I imported seeds from Afghanistan and we grew large amounts of them, thousands, and we tested them by gas chromatography, what we found out was that 25% of them were high in THC, 25% of them were high in CBD, and 50% of them were somewhere in between. So... Yeah, they're extremely heterozygous.

3:37:14Collin PalmerIt goes both ways. I was just thinking about it. I was like, you know, objective, just being completely objective about it. It's like a bag seed could be as important as a well-worked line, right? And the importance of how heterozygous or not that is, Thank you so much for joining us.

3:37:58Collin PalmerIn all the effort that you put, are you going to get the results you wanted from that? And I think that question's yet to be answered. And through breeding, I think we'd love to chase these, like, I'm going to stabilize this or do that. But, you know, to be real, like, I think, Fletch, you've done a great job of just understanding your tool chest and knowing how things interact and reacting well to it.

3:38:25Collin PalmerAnd you've put out really great work because you were deep knowledge of that tool chest. And it really shows, you know, and you've really, you know, I'm not trying to blow smoke here at all. I'm just trying to call it as it is. Like you've actually done the work where most people don't. And that's, that takes time. It takes, it takes effort. It takes real true passion to catalog a tool chest of things that you deeply understand and resonate with.

3:38:52Collin PalmerYou know, and then grow them individually and then understand that that's, that's just deep work, you know, and that's, I don't see any breeders out. I, I would love to think there are breeders doing that work, but it's just not the case. A lot of the time.

3:39:07Archive SeedsIf they are, they can show you the jars. And I think that's one thing I'm known for is showing up with the jars. You know, we can sit here and talk about it all day, but how about I just show you the results? How about that? You know? And I think it's not, you know, it's a willingness to put in the work, but to agree with Sam, it's population size is a huge part of it.

3:39:26Archive SeedsJust being able, just, you know, being willing to risk it and pop a thousand, two thousand seeds per year, every year for the last decade. It makes a difference. And I don't mean just popping them and growing them out, but popping them, taking clones, preserving them, running through them a couple times, the best ones, actually doing your research. And it's, you know, I'm thankful for having access to, you know, and preserving the genetics that I did when I had access to them.

3:39:54Archive SeedsThat's a huge part of it. And then it's just, it's just popping seeds after that. You can, you can assume to know Everything about whatever, but at the end of the day, until I pop the seeds, I really can't tell you anything about what that hybrid is going to be exactly. And that's why I think there's so much misinformation and honestly, just straight up lying in the seed business because nobody grows any of this out, but they make all these assumptions and all of these promises about the seeds that they're making and they've never even grown them.

3:40:28Archive SeedsThey barely even grow through the actual parents themselves or they acquire the parents from someone else and don't even know what they're working with. I mean, it's really a disgrace to the actual craft of this, of what 98% of the seed companies do. 100%.

3:40:45SpeakerYeah. For years. The biggest threat to the cannabis gene pool is the cannabis seed market. Right? It's just such a weird dichotomy. At the same time, it's what spread it Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

3:41:28SpeakerI did some that were 20,000 of one single variety. And that's serious. You know, that's what Colin's saying. Like, I think it's kind of what Colin's saying about, and I agree, like, breeding for stability is great and it serves a purpose. But there is also something, and like we know, some of the better plants that have come into the market that, you know, Fletch and myself and many people have worked with, These things are found in bag seeds, right?

3:42:00SpeakerThey're accidental hybrids that come up and somebody stumbles upon them and finds that it's unique and special in some way. And then when you breed that plant, the things that make it special don't appear back in the next generation, right? So one of the things that we're working on, they've got all these new bio approaches and there's actually approaches where you can find a hybrid clone or a cultivar And then you can use biotechnology to create a seed population that reproduces that clone in a seed form.

3:42:34SpeakerRight? And so you essentially, you know, people can stumble on these incredible things and then, you know, you can give the plant to me or license the plant to me and I can make a seed line that is all exactly the same as the seed. Right. And they're no good for breeding. I mean, they're no better for breeding than the clone is, but at least now you have a plantable unit from seed that you can plug into a system and grow from seed.

3:43:02SpeakerRight. So like there's the science that we figured out over the last 30, 40 years and in all these other species, we can now apply that to cannabis using things like CRISPR. So it's like, it's the time, the time The time that we live in is absolutely insane, right? Like it's knowledge upon knowledge upon knowledge that we're just compounding. And these tools that once seemed esoteric, they're becoming cheap, right?

3:43:28SpeakerLike gene sequencing, like I said, genome sequencing, you can get done for five bucks. It used to cost millions, right? But then it was down to thousands. And then the medicinal genomics guys got it up to like high hundreds. Right. But now it's down to like five bucks a sample. You can actually think about, hey, OK, we're going to take 5000 seeds and each will spend the twenty five thousand dollars to use genomics to truly improve a variety.

3:43:52SpeakerRight. Like it's it's pretty remarkable. And it's just evolution and. Where are you finding it for $5? It's not a commercial thing. It's with a university. So they've got it down to your cost. And the sequencing platform isn't just built for one company. It's built for a bioinformatics institute. So the yeast guys use it, the crop guys use it, the medicine guys use it, right? So that machinery is amortized across so many different people.

3:44:29SpeakerAnd then what they do is they develop a pipeline and a system so that it's like, okay, we're going to germinate 2000 seeds. The cost is 10 grand and get your results in four weeks. So it's, Amazing. It's a different world, right?

3:44:48Archive SeedsI think the toughest part about trying to use genomics breeding for cannabis is just that the amount of traits that we're looking for in particularly flower. Now, resin is going to be probably a little bit easier, but the more traits that you want, like it smokes good, it does this, it does that, the plant grows a certain way, etc., They tend to be qualitative markers more than they are actual genetic markers or singular genetic markers.

3:45:15Archive SeedsAnd until we figured out what all these different gene sets do, you might, you know, let's say we're just looking for lemon in a lemon peel cross or something like that. We might get all these plants from our research that all show that they're heavy in the lemon and you move those forward in the breeding program, but are those the plants you want to grow for other reasons?

3:45:35Archive SeedsAnd then that becomes, I think the best part of that tool is to use it to take really large populations and whittle it down really fast and then still do the qualitative work.

3:45:45Speaker100%. That's exactly what you need. But it allows you to go from 10,000 to 1,000. Have you only got room? I mean, you're- That's right.

3:45:52Archive SeedsExactly. Or 100,000 to 1,000, right? So that, exactly.

3:45:57Speaker100,000 is like 500 grand cost, right? So it's like, at one point in time, does it become prohibitive? But you're not wrong. I mean, it's like you said, if you're growing 2,000 seeds a year for screening, but you can start 10,000 and get down to 1,000, that's a big deal.

3:46:13Archive SeedsWell, in a thousand that I know are like, if I did a population hunt, found that the three out of the hundred of my initial hunt had this gene on, and then I'd pop 10,000, only keep the plants that have that gene on, and then run only those thousand, I'm effectively hunting 10,000, theoretically.

3:46:34SpeakerYeah, but the other side of the equation is that you can use, like, truth is, a lot of agriculturally important trades, right? That we use for cannabis that have nothing to do with quality, have to do with production metrics and the genetics involved in those. Those traits are known by plant scientists, right? And so they really can, like they were actually doing this in corn and soy.

3:46:56SpeakerThe guy that I'm working with was doing this with corn and soy. And they had like, They would have the breeders go into the fields and use their methods like you and I do. And they would select plants. 95% of the time, the guys using the markers were choosing the same plants. That's pretty amazing.

3:47:16Archive SeedsYeah.

3:47:18SpeakerSo, you know, it's when you start layering these, it's like you said, and this gets back to the point that Wade was making before, right? I mean, these machine technologies are cool and all, but there is something about, The humans that exceed these machines, at least for now, you know, and I think that that probably goes on for a long time because we have all these ways of walking it.

3:47:40SpeakerI mean, same thing you walk into a grow room is like, oh yeah, I got a grow room. They're going to identify all the problems. When I walk into a grow room, and I'm sure you guys are the same way, you're not just smelling and seeing, you're hearing. You hear when there's a system down, you hear when there's a fan gone, you hear when there's something wrong with the pump or the emitters, right?

3:48:00SpeakerSo it's like, it's an immersive experience going into a room. And if you're working in that room all the time, just like your friends, you get to know your friends, you get to know the room, the sounds of the room, right? So, yeah. AI is not going to be perfect, but it's a great technology to assist us. But I think it, at least for some time, it's just going to be an assistant, right?

3:48:22SpeakerAnd it'll make us better. There's no doubt about it. It'll make us better. But, you know, we have learned things by living. I mean, Fletcher, you are a custodian of this plant, right? I mean, you've lived with this plant like I have for so long that... You know, I always laugh when I see these like scientist guys that are coming over to come in and show these stoners how to breed.

3:48:45SpeakerIt's like, yeah, like you've got like 18 months under your belt learning this plant. Like when you have 20 years or 25, 30 years under your belt, you look at the plant in a different way. You see things that you wouldn't otherwise see.

3:49:01SpeakerSo I don't think we can get rid of the humans.

3:49:04Archive SeedsYeah, for sure. I mean, I think that they're all tools. You know, it's your tractor doesn't do anything without someone driving it unless you've got, you know, those row crop automatic tractors now. But, you know, technology continues to improve. But like you said, layering these technologies onto the onto each other and then putting them into field tests and into practice is fantastic. Essentially just doing traditional work, but using these tools to produce the labor, investment, cost, time, et cetera, to accomplish the same goal.

3:49:33Archive SeedsIt's, you know, CRISPR and those technologies, while I think valuable, I think the most valuable plants are created with traditional breeding methods, but using the technology to find those plants created naturally rather than gene altered.

3:49:49SpeakerYeah, I mean, that's a matter of perspective, but for sure, it depends on the trade.

3:49:52Archive SeedsAt least on a personal level. Now, to a big business that's trying to accomplish just one thing, then the CRISPR might be the most valuable on a monetary terms. But I think being able to create that naturally has the most valuable to the genome.

3:50:08Collin PalmerWell, the other thing that keep in mind is there's a lot of things that happen by chance that with too much information will not happen, right? And I think that leaving room for that is important. And I think through population is the only way, as Sam said, and he's always said, because you're not going to see the breadth of it all, right? And you're not going to be able to see the things that You know, really are truly happening in a population.

3:50:38Collin PalmerSo it's important. I mean, I grew 30,000 C99 seeds and I'll tell you, man, I saw insanely amazing things out of it. I couldn't believe it. I didn't believe it when we were doing it. I was like, there's no way. And through that much seed, you're going to see some really neat things.

3:50:57BubblemanI still have my original pack from Mr. Soul. I traded him bubble bags in like 2000 or 2001 for his C99.

3:51:05Collin PalmerYeah, I mean, it was something I just...

3:51:08SpeakerI only got 10, though, not 30,000, so... What was the background of C99?

3:51:14Collin PalmerI don't even know. Maybe, Fletch, you remember what it was?

3:51:17Archive SeedsYeah, it was a supposed, like, bag seed jack hair or something from a coffee shop in Amsterdam crossed with... Do you remember what it was, Ryan?

3:51:27SpeakerYeah, it was actually from, I don't think the parent was unknown. It wasn't from a coffee, or maybe it was from a coffee shop, but what it was was Sensi Seeds used to have a coffee shop right across from their shop on the corner of, I can't even remember what it is. It's the street that goes across from Damrac right near the hotel you used to stay at, Mark.

3:51:47SpeakerWhere the Hash Museum is. Yeah, right. And that it was right across the street from that. And they would actually sell flower that was growing in that in their little seed shop. They had a little seed display. And Mr. Soul, I think, worked there for a while. And he bought some bud from that place next door and pulled the pulled it out of something that was supposedly jack hair.

3:52:08SpeakerAnd the pollen parent was unknown. But he assumed it was like Like Shiva Skunk or something like that. Some NL Skunk Cross.

3:52:17Archive SeedsBut he took that and crossed it to something and then did the BX1, BX2, BX3, the 75, the 83, the 99, whatever it was, right?

3:52:25Collin PalmerYeah, I think so. Yeah, but like I, to be real, man, I saw a bunch of really skunk leaning stuff through to the population that I was like, it's like, what's this? What's going on over here?

3:52:36Archive SeedsLike this much. The only thing I've ever smelled in any C99 is skunk number one.

3:52:43Collin PalmerTrue, that's exactly what it reminded me of. It was like, but there was, you know, it was, I don't know, from growing it, a lot of respect. That's from seeing what I called it.

3:52:52BubblemanBut listen, the time, the timeline that he was at the coffee shop in Amsterdam too, I would say everything was skunk number one. When I first went to Amsterdam in 95, everything was skunk number one. It was fruity skunk everywhere. And of course it was the first thing I bought at a coffee shop on the dam rack, Very close to the Krasnopolsky Hotel, you know, on the way to the greenhouse before I got to know the greenhouse and kind of make that my spot when I was because it was so close.

3:53:22BubblemanI went to this other place. I don't even know what the name was, but it was 95. And the first thing I ever bought was a couple of grams of skunk number one. And I remember being like, oh, weird. It's fruity, not skunky.

3:53:37SpeakerI don't know who did that. He should be shot. Yeah.

3:53:41Archive SeedsWhoever covered Amsterdam in that skunk number one, man, just.

3:53:46MojaveDude. Blanketed the world. Dang his con.

3:53:51BubblemanIt's a perfect like perspective, right? Like how negative can you be? You're actually upset that he bred the skunk out of skunk number one instead of just being like happy that he exists and did all the work that he did. Focus on that.

3:54:06Archive SeedsI mean, I think so. One of the, you know, the books that you guys wrote, I feel like nobody even reads those things anymore. And those were the, I mean, for as an early grower, early 2000s, that was the, you know, marijuana, horticulture, RCC, all those books that you guys did. Those were the best resources out there. They were the only resources.

3:54:26SpeakerBut still, the best.

3:54:29Collin PalmerThere was not much. BPGA was the forum that existed with like Vic High. I remember being on there. But there wasn't much at all. If at all.

3:54:39Archive SeedsMarijuana horticulture was the Bible for me.

3:54:43MojaveSo check this out. This is a sage cut from 95. This was the sage, the unknown plant backcrossed to the To the Chamba and this, and then I had a couple of females that I selected and this was the one that I didn't really like that much.

3:55:02BubblemanHold it in front of your, in your body or your face. Yeah. Just in front of your face is perfect. It won't disappear, but the background. So yeah, that, that looks similar to the A1 magenta in a lavender color.

3:55:15MojaveSo what the cool part is that I didn't like it. I didn't like it as much. And anyway, it's the only one that survived. And the one that was way more hazy was the one that didn't make it. But this one survived. I haven't grown this for literally 28 years or so. You know, and I finally grew it. And it's kind of it's a sick kind of a weird plant.

3:55:39MojaveBut and I got and I just put the nose. It's like it's so skunk one. It's so obviously skunk one. And it's so weird because I haven't smoked or grown or even seen a lot of skunk one since I live in Amsterdam. But it's just so like flashback to like Dutch coffee shop. And I knew it then, but didn't really resonate with me. So all and this is the parent that made almost all the sage seeds that were ever sold.

3:56:04MojaveYou know, so it is definitively skunk one in Sage. And it's probably just a hay skunk that I got out of a seed that fell out of a bud that Rob gave me to roll a joint someday. But it was wild that like 30 years later, finally going like, Oh yeah, it's definitely skunk wine. It's like, oh yeah, it's like, oh no, it's definitely skunk wine.

3:56:26BubblemanDude, that's the difference between doing real work and breeding strong genetics because, and I remember when I first met Dave, he was like, Anything that has skunk number one in it, and if he looked at the lab test, he'd see like a spike that he recognized that was from that specific plant. I remember you telling me that, Sam.

3:56:48SpeakerWell, it wasn't the cannabinoids primarily. It was the terpenes.

3:56:51BubblemanThe terpenes, of course. Yeah, well, that would be weird.

3:56:54SpeakerIt was unique. If I knew one of the parents, you could hit with something else, and I could double blind, pick out, Which ones had skunk? Which ones had haze as one of the parents? Really, really, really easy.

3:57:12BubblemanYou know, it's strong genetics, man. Like I said, everything smelt like it in Amsterdam in 95, the year that I went. It was kind of like, holy fuck, like nobody's doing anything other than just crossing whatever they have with this thing, this beast, this fucking like utter and complete, like so strong you could cross it with kind of so-so genetics and come up with something still amazing that people are like, yeah, I'm an amazing breeder.

3:57:41BubblemanLook what I made. I took the skunk number one and I crossed my plant and you put that in there and you've got an advantage for certain. That's all I'll say.

3:57:51SpeakerWell, listen, what I was going to say before I cut out, skunk, you know, we know this because the way that when Sam created it, he had this thing where the plants all came up kind of uniform when he was making these different hybrids. That's because those traits were dominant. Right. And so what he was seeing was dominance. And so when you take that plant with a dominant phenotype and you start crossing it into everything, it steps all over the other things.

3:58:15SpeakerRight. Which is why you see C99 that has all these scug plants in there is because it's really like a huge part of the genetic makeup. And, you know, at the time, everybody was using these more like nobody's really breeding lines. So they were finding like different land race stuff. But nobody was really breeding these stuff. And then David came along and had these more productive plants that were just like more uniform, more productive.

3:58:39SpeakerAnd everybody was like, oh yeah, let's take this and cross it into everything, right? Because again, the skunk always added that kind of uniformity and stability and like yield. So it made sense that everybody was taking it and using it to improve their stuff. But like Mohave said, I mean, it's kind of the Genghis Khan effect, right? And the skunk crowd.

3:59:05BubblemanBut it was so prolific. It made everything that like it just gave such decent. I'm quite certain Renee was absolutely a skunk cross with some type of haze because when it was grown properly and you exhaled it, it had the perfume of a pure haze. But it smelled like skunky and like super just dank and strong.

3:59:27SpeakerI'll tell you the honest truth. I found that original hay is my sort of inbred version of it that I would kind of maintain for future growers and breeders. When it was crossed with almost any good other variety that was different, it would come out stronger than either parent, the progeny of the original hay times whatever. Whereas with skunk, I mean, it improved the consistency and improved the yield, but I wouldn't say that it made other varieties higher in THC, for example.

4:00:16BubblemanInteresting. Well, I still think of, to this day, your giant bag of haze crossed with haze seeds. I think about that bag of seeds like on the regular.

4:00:27SpeakerI remember the first time I visited Sam's place, he was like, here, check this out. And he shows me like a kilo, you know, a pound bud size bag, like a large Ziploc bag, like full of perfectly clean seeds. And, you know, I have bags of my own that are like that now. But back then, I'd certainly never seen the time I'd seen it like that. It was just something amazing.

4:00:48SpeakerI think I've easily produced several hundred million seeds. I know I sold maybe 200 million, but remember, my price is cheap, so it didn't make me a multi-billionaire. Those barrels that you produced in that Eastern European country, I mean, you had tonnage of skunk seed at that point in time. Just blue barrels filled to the top. Yeah, I had so many of them that I actually pressed them to make hemp seed oil to use for my cosmetic line.

4:01:29BubblemanYou did you did your fucking chapstick with that dude that is insane that people don't even know that other than the people you've told that stories to and I don't think anyone realizes what he just said okay what he just said was that he took like his his proper skunk seeds like good skunk seeds that would grow nice skunk plants not not hemp seeds that you buy For a fraction, but that's, that speaks to how cheap you've always sold seeds to as well.

4:01:58BubblemanBut he made hemp seed oil from those seeds. He pressed the oil out of those embryos and collected it and then had like, had chapsticks and stuff made.

4:02:09SpeakerAnd shampoo and, you know, body shampoo and et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, and yeah, I still got some. And when he comes to visit me, I'll give him some of that.

4:02:22BubblemanThat is so insane if you actually think about that. That's like, I don't know why it's breaking my brain right now because I've known that for a couple of decades, but that is insane.

4:02:31SpeakerWhat was the name of that brand again, Sam?

4:02:35BubblemanCannabless.

4:02:36SpeakerCannabless.

4:02:37BubblemanThat's such a good name. Totally such a good name.

4:02:42SpeakerMy wife did the drawing on the label. It was a step number one leaf. Shout out to Diana in the chat. I'm sure she's still there. But yeah, much love.

4:02:55MojaveHey, one day, one day, I do think one day we'll have, we'll have multi-use crops that come from, you know, drug varieties that there's no reason why fiber seed and drug shouldn't come from one plant. And how cool that would be to know that like the hat, the clothes, the seed oil, all that was.

4:03:13SpeakerWhen I test, when I was working with Dr. Boats and Hungry, I had him grow skunk number one for me, and he tested the fiber content. It was higher than most of the hemp varieties, the registered northern registered hemp varieties. It had a higher fiber content. Wasn't the seed yield way higher too, Sam? Yes, he told me that the highest amount of seeds he ever got from a single plant was, I forget, 1,000 or 2,000 or 1,500 or whatever it was.

4:03:53SpeakerAnd I told him that... I could easily get 25, 35,000 seeds from a single plant of strength number one. And the reason is, is it was bred for branches and flowers. So it was hard to beat.

4:04:14BubblemanYeah. 35,000 seeds. That plant is like 10 feet tall or something. We should talk about the intervention.

4:04:22SpeakerAbout six feet tall. We should talk about the International Hemp Association. That's another thing that you and Rob created and Dinah as well.

4:04:32SpeakerIt's so epic. If you type in International Hemp Association with the word hemp next to it, It'll pop right up. It's still hosted by Carl Olson. And it's got our first 12 journals, which were printed on pure hemp paper. And it's a peer reviewed scientific organization dedicated to the advancement of cannabis through the dissemination of information. It's pretty cool. You can see the stories. And then we had a second journal called the International Hemp Journal.

4:05:20SpeakerAnd it wasn't on pure hemp paper because it was too expensive for us. And we made another 14 issues. We put out two issues for seven years. And the first journal we had out for six years, so 12 journals. And... Yes? Yeah. I'm proud to have a set of those original ones on hemp paper. Thank you very much for that. Just some context for people that are watching.

4:05:57SpeakerThis is at a time when prohibition was really intense all around the world. And people, there was no internet. There was no place to go to talk about cannabis or hemp. And Sam and Rob and, you know, with help with Diane and everyone else around, they created this international association. That was really about hemp information and they had seed availability. So we would send anybody a collection of 10 or 15 different varieties of industrial hemp so they could trial them legally in their own countries.

4:06:32SpeakerAnd we sent them with a phyto sanitary inspection and with import legal import and export licenses. And so we tried to spread cannabis Uh, hemp production worldwide. Well, and you, and you figured out the systems that you were really the first person to just not just send some seeds in the mail. I mean, you literally figure that the systems like phytosanitary certification and how to do the import export paperwork and.

4:07:00SpeakerI mean, you really were a visionary when it came to that stuff. And you provided for a home for so many people to learn about it. And also at the same time, you and Rob became the hub for cannabis information, right? We also supplied an hemp information kit where you could get samples of cannabis. It was about 25, 35 different items made out of hemp, including shampoos and various things.

4:07:35SpeakerAnd it was pretty cool. Our favorite people to send it to were like high school teachers who could show it to their classes.

4:07:52SpeakerYeah, people don't understand. That's what used to make me so mad when I'd read all this stupid stuff on the internet, people dragging your name through the mud. Nobody knew how much you did for the plant. There's nobody on the planet that did the same amount of stuff for the plant that you did, you and Rob did. I mean, there really, there's nobody.

4:08:11BubblemanYeah, it's the most hypocritical trolling ever. Like, you couldn't be more wrong.

4:08:17SpeakerYeah. I had a very serious love for cannabis and a serious distaste for the police and military organizations worldwide who tried to suppress it.

4:08:34SpeakerYeah. So to end up being labeled the man was such a, just a mistake. Some people called me a DE agent, but some of them gave me a little bit more respect and called me CIA agent. It goes to show that the narrative of what people understand is almost always not the real story. Right.

4:09:00BubblemanIt really does. You got to be careful with, with the mainstream, with the main story that, that, you know, whatever the main story that's being created, the main narrative, it's just almost anyone that's ever been in the news, you know, often how wrong they get it. If it's a good story, it's one thing, but if it's a bad story, they like, oh, you know, like when I was busted or whatever, I was in the papers and I just read the article and I was like, whoa, like, They got a lot of things wrong here.

4:09:30BubblemanAnd I'm like, I wonder how much is wrong in like all the other stories that are in the newspaper.

4:09:34SpeakerAnd I'm wondering if they're doing it accidentally. It's been reported that I was convicted of cannabis crimes. I've never been convicted of a cannabis crime. It's just not true.

4:09:47BubblemanYeah, but that is the basis of the whole like, well, how did he get in trouble and not get in trouble? So that's like the whole story of you being an agent or whatever. That story, the foundation is in that lie. That's where it started.

4:10:03SpeakerYeah. It actually started by Neville Schoenmaker in Cannabis Castle. He was annoyed at me because... He had promised me he wouldn't reproduce my varieties. And I told him, you can use any of my varieties and make hybrids with other varieties. But he wanted to knock off skunk seeds and sell them and knock off original haze and so on. And yeah, I never forgave him. And I told him so.

4:10:37SpeakerAnd he never forgave me being honest to him. Well, he just wanted to free your work for the revolution, right? No, he wanted to free it for his pocketbook. That's true.

4:10:53Archive SeedsAnd I think that's the general point is that in the seed industry, the vast majority of the rumors and whatever, it's all, I mean, like I said, 98% of the people don't do the work. They're just buying and reselling shit. And with that have to come stories that make them seem relevant. And that's the basis of the vast majority of everything. And And the real people will just show up with the jar of weed and show you, here's what it is.

4:11:22Archive SeedsYou want to see what Albert Walker is? Here's a jar of it. We don't even have to go any further than that. But that's not really what the game is anymore. The game is now to just... You know, post a bunch of bullshit on Instagram and convince people that you're telling the truth. I never had an Instagram account. I never had an Instagram account.

4:11:43SpeakerI never had an Instagram account.

4:11:53Archive SeedsOh, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's just how it's done today. And back then it was spreading rumors. It's just the same playbook, right? They've got some bullshit they want to sell and they'll tell any story to us to sell it.

4:12:07SpeakerAnd we've had some master storytellers in this industry, right? Like we really have. But a good, that's a real disservice to the plant, put it that way.

4:12:18BubblemanIt does seem weird that when you do something, I don't know, maybe Wade will have to teach us the ways because it does seem weird. Like when you do the good work, or at least what you consider the good work that you get, like for me, I just wanted to like teach people how to make hash. I'd just been in trouble with Hillary and the club and I was like, I'll make these bags.

4:12:35BubblemanAnd all of a sudden I was like this thief that stole the bags from Mila for like a decade plus. I took a beating. And I spent a lot of time in Amsterdam in those years and just took a beating. The narrative, it was like, well, the story is that he stole them from Mila. And it took a long time to kind of, like, I had to stay true and congruent and consistent to get to a point where I wasn't being looked at like I was.

4:13:05SpeakerWell, let's be honest, Marcus. I mean, Mila, in a way, stole the idea from Eldon. Who was my old friend for decades. I mean, I knew him in 1965. Wow. Yeah. Do you know Eldon?

4:13:23BubblemanEldon is the only person I ever gave a Legends of Hashish ticket to. Because I was very, it was always about you have to pay for your own ticket. I'm paying for my own ticket. Everyone's paying for their ticket. Skunk Man Sam paid for his ticket. I paid for my tickets. So the only ticket I ever gave away was to Eldon when he told me that story that he was supposed to get 10% of the isolator company and he never made a dollar.

4:13:53BubblemanI was just like, you didn't even get paid a dollar? I was like, dude, I'm buying your Legends of Hash tickets from now on.

4:14:00SpeakerIt's the least I can do. I will never forget that night at the Milky Bay when we were standing there and you were talking. I think it was Eldon that you were talking with, wasn't it? And Mila, and you were on Dutch television. Do you want to tell the story?

4:14:16BubblemanOh, that was no, that wasn't even Dutch television. It was it was Russian television, I believe. Oh, and because my buddy from Brooklyn, Jan, the Hasidic Jewish dude, he was the only fucking dude in the milk bag that spoke Russian because that they they were like Russians version of 60 Minutes. Right. It was a big TV production. They had big cameras and they were cruising around. So the only reason that they stopped and talked to us was because my homie spoke Russian.

4:14:49BubblemanRight. So he was speaking to them. And then out of the corner of my eye, I saw a bit of a bit of an experience.

4:14:56SpeakerYou were making hash. You were making. Mark was doing a demonstration. I was making hash. Exactly. I'm making some hash and it's in the corner of the milk bag.

4:15:05BubblemanYeah, showing them how the bubble bags work while my buddy is like in Russian, just explaining everything at the speed of light to these guys. Like they couldn't have gotten a better dude, articulate speaker in English. I don't know what he was saying in Russian, but they seem to be paying attention. And yeah, there was like a kerfuffle while I'm doing that and yawns talking to the Russian dudes.

4:15:27BubblemanAnd this is when Mark Rose got punched in the throat, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then him and Mila were arguing in the corner because they were, of course, business partners. It was Mark Rose who came up with the name Isolator while looking at Reinhard Delp's machine. I learned this from spending a lot of money on discovery and investigations because I was in a patent lawsuit with Reinhard Delp.

4:15:52BubblemanHe was suing me for breaching his patent. And I'm like, who the fuck are you? And then I learned that the bubble bags, the Isolator bags were isolated. Absolutely came from his invention. And he had privately signed a contract with Mila to protect it. So it was 97 Cannabis Cup. He showed her this machine. She was like, wow, this is cool. Well, it was like, I don't know.

4:16:16BubblemanOnly Mila would know how many days it was, but it was very short after she got it that Eldon and Mark Rose were over at her apartment. And she was showing it to them. And Eldon was just like nonchalant. Two nylon bags in a five gallon bucket with screen bottoms and you got the same thing. Like just spouted that off in a sentence. That's how the isolator and the bubble bags for that matter.

4:16:39SpeakerI forgot to mention, Marcus, that the isolator machine by Mr. Dell cost thousands of dollars.

4:16:48BubblemanAbsolutely. It was called the ice cold extractor. And it was it was like a conical shaped. It was different than the bags in a big way. Eldon changed the game in an instant because Reinhardt had set it up to extract the gland heads based on their maturity, not their micron size. So they would all fall into a, you know, a triangle. They would drop in and then he had a little dial on that machine and it was glass and you could see the color variations and differences in the maturity of the trichomes, but they weren't all micron sizes.

4:17:22BubblemanEldon adding just the two bags, like a 200 and a 70, and then me and Mark Rose coming along afterwards and adding the other six or seven bags, it totally altered how we experience The resin because Reinhardt's method was very, very different. And I would implore anyone that's out there to play around with that if you can, you know, play around with the idea of not always isolating your trichomes based on their micron diameter, which was just the pathway that we happened to take.

4:17:56BubblemanAnd it was a cool pathway. Don't get me wrong. But Experiment and play around. And if you can get a little funnel with a little valve on it and a glass one, and you, you know, you, you mix everything up and it falls through your, your one's false screen, your 200 or whatever. And then all the heads just start falling based on their maturity more than their micron diameter, because he's not, he doesn't isolate them out.

4:18:22BubblemanIt's their density, but also maturity in the sense, which ones break off first. Do you know what I'm saying? Which ones, which ones do you have to wash for a while before they release? And, you know, because if you've obviously taken like, you know, light trim or even flour and just done like a what Johnny B calls his first bounce, where you just give it the lightest bounce.

4:18:44BubblemanWell, that's all the most mature heads or maybe not mature heads, the most readily available. Ready to drop heads. The ones that are at the point of obsession, that they are just ready to go. They're the most ready to go. I have always said mature, but maybe that's not the best terminology for what I'm trying to get across. But it's a different experience. And Johnny B became completely obsessed with the fresh bounce.

4:19:09BubblemanAfter teaching him how to kind of dry sift and clean it up, that was back in 2014, if you can imagine, John, when you came to my house with the farmer's grade sift. And I was like, let's clean that up. And I carded it. I did the old carding method for like 40 minutes and dropped that on a screen and a bong. And it was boiling like lava, just bubbling and brewing.

4:19:30BubblemanAnd John and I laughed so hard. That video is still up on the on the Internet. Or was that me and Darren? No, that was you and me. It wasn't me.

4:19:38Johnny BWe were laughing our bloody asses off. December of 2012, I came back from High Times Cannabis Con. We met on the plane. We talked the whole way on the plane coming back from the flight. We talked the whole way. Didn't even know each other at that time. We were like, how come we never met each other? And I had Sonny behind. When you had your bags, you were taking your machines out in those bags.

4:19:57Johnny BYou had your long hair. That's when I first met you.

4:20:00SpeakerWhere was the cannabis cup at that time? Was it the PAX Party House?

4:20:04BubblemanYeah, I don't think so. This was late. I don't. Yeah, no, because 2012 was one of the last cups. And so that would have been at one. It would have been. No, was it? I think it was at the one hour pound. It was the one across the bridge at the milk at the milk bag, I think. Or Upstairs or something. I can't remember now exactly. No, no, it might have been the one out of town.

4:20:29BubblemanThe big building.

4:20:30SpeakerWhere was that one? The Milky Way.

4:20:33BubblemanBecause remember the mayor flipped out that year and busted the cup? Yeah, absolutely. I remember. Mila got arrested that year, actually. I was the first one to be searched. Me and Doug from HempWorks. I shared a booth with HempWorks every year after sharing a booth with Ruhr and Martin. But Yeah, I was the first one to get. I'll never forget because.

4:20:57SpeakerI'll tell you another story. When Mila got busted, I'm the one who gave her the budget and the shake she got busted with.

4:21:05BubblemanOh, shit. Damn, dude. Well, it happened next to me too because Doug was the same way. I remember Doug's buddy from America showing up with this giant five gallon, like one of those ones you have to push the button and you can pop the top off. They have little ones, but you can't get the top off if you don't push the little button down. It's air sealed and it's a five gallon version.

4:21:24BubblemanThis guy's got like a couple of pounds in there. He's tripping on acid and I see him stash it behind Doug's booth. Literally 40 minutes later, All this, the tax people in the yellow jackets, because they were the ones really that people were like, no, no, be afraid of those. Doug was like, I don't give a fuck about the police, but those guys in the yellow jackets don't say the wrong thing to them.

4:21:45SpeakerNon-legal workers.

4:21:48BubblemanCorrect. They were looking for people making sales and stuff. So I luckily was with Doug and he's got his whole, you know, tax system all set up in Holland from working there for so many years. So my sales were all legal. But they started with me. He was next to me while I was getting searched. He was cracking jokes and he was being loose and goosey. And he was like, fuck, he knew he had nothing.

4:22:09BubblemanRight. And he was all excited. And then they kind of left and then they went over to his booth. And he came over to me. He's like, dude, this is like one of the rarest times. I have nothing. They're not going to find anything. And I was just like, oh, dude, I got some bad news for you. And he's like, what's that? He's like, well, you know, your buddy from Colorado that's like tripping on acid or whatever.

4:22:29BubblemanHe's like, yeah. I'm like, I'm pretty sure I saw him put like a couple of pounds of weed behind your booth. And he was just like. Thank you so much for joining us.

4:23:00BubblemanHe's pulling the lid like within about an inch of getting it off and his arms shaking and it's all flexed out and then it would just go kabop and like snap back onto the bucket and Doug was just sitting there with this look on his face and he looks over to me and he's like I'm not fucking telling him how to open it. I don't give a fuck.

4:23:20BubblemanI almost pissed my pants, dude. He ended up in court for real like two or three years, like over two or three years. He could tell the story better from his side, but I just, what a bummer.

4:23:30SpeakerWhen that happened, I was watching what was going on And with all the other booths and stuff. And I kept seeing people, everybody, because I was going around telling everybody, hide your stash, hide your stash. And they were putting it underneath the trash cans. That were on the public path inside the building. And the cops never looked underneath the trash cans.

4:23:58BubblemanThey didn't look in every spot for sure. They searched booths. I had quite a bit of hash on me as well. So I went and stashed that right away and just brought the personal amount, the four grams that I could have or whatever it was. And, but I also had someone give me MDMA and I don't usually ever really have that, but I had that as well.

4:24:17BubblemanSo I went into the bathroom and stashed all my shit in the roof. I like lifted up the thing and put it in the roof and then dropped it back down. Dutch bathrooms are awesome because they're actually sealed right to the roof. Like you're not, it's not like someone's going to see you doing that. You're in a room with a door closed. And so that's what I did.

4:24:34BubblemanAnd yeah, Oh yeah, no, they were making everyone throw their stash out as they were leaving the building and the garbage cans were actually full of stash. And when the cops all left, I watched quite a few people go and harvest all that shit out of those garbage cans because it wasn't like ruined. It was still in the bags. It was just like in a garbage can.

4:24:52BubblemanAnd there was like, fuck, I would say at least a kilo or a few kilos or something in people's, you know, single gram, like five and ten gram stashes.

4:25:04SpeakerSo fun.

4:25:04BubblemanIt's insane. Good old memories of the Cannabis Cup, eh?

4:25:09SpeakerYeah, I mean, dude, so much stuff happened at those early cups that, like, I won't even say on this show, but I remember being there with a friend, and they stayed at this really lovely hotel.

4:25:21BubblemanI knew the story you were going to tell. I already know it, and I knew it before you even said it. I was like, this is going to be the fucking entire story for sure.

4:25:31SpeakerI won't mention names, but there's this really lovely hotel with flowers all around and a nice white carpet across this very grand entrance. And this dude walks in covered in tattoos, rolling a tire, like a spare tire. And taking it up to somebody.

4:25:51BubblemanForget about role. It wasn't just the tattoos. It was everything else, bro. It was his hair. It was the fucking he was the he stood out in Amsterdam as a huge freak. Forget about just that hotel. He could have been in the in the red light district and he would have stood out as a huge freak. Forget, you know, but he was at a nice hotel rolling a tire across the white carpet.

4:26:16SpeakerRight. You never know when you're going to need a tire. Yeah, well, the worst part was the next morning when there was black smoke flying around the suite that they were staying in because they were cutting into the tire with a like a Dremel tool or something like that.

4:26:34BubblemanYeah, a spinning saw.

4:26:36SpeakerYeah.

4:26:37BubblemanIt was shooting up against the walls and drapes. It was bad, dude.

4:26:42SpeakerAnd the brilliant people behind the scheme, they emptied it and left the tire and went to the cannabis cup. And destroyed the room. Obviously, when the cleaners came into the room, they found the tire and wondered why there was this cut tire with all this black smoke flying around. And yeah, man.

4:27:06BubblemanNo, it was a lot. It was expensive and it ruined a lot of stuff. And I was walking with those very people like a couple of nights later with Arian from the greenhouse. And they were telling him the story. And he just looked at them. He's like, why wouldn't you have just called me? I have the machine. I have the machine that can remove the tire from the...

4:27:27SpeakerThey were just like...

4:27:32BubblemanOh my God, dude, that was so crazy.

4:27:34SpeakerYou know what they say, drugs do the darndest things. Yeah, well, that was the thing about Amsterdam back in the day. Like, that was one of 50 situations that were happening in different hotels on the same night. At least, at least.

4:27:52BubblemanThat's the awesome thing. There was madness going on everywhere.

4:27:56SpeakerThose were magical times. They really were. It was a different world then. Funny as hell.

4:28:05BubblemanYeah, I'm glad I got to be a part of it for sure. There's nostalgia there and I'm sure there'll be a new version for young people to experience as the city of Amsterdam is for sure. Always, always a trip. It was just a good time for our community and our industry to be to be in Amsterdam in that late 80s throughout the 90s. That was and the, you know, 2000 to 2010 or 2012 or whatever.

4:28:29BubblemanIt was pretty wild. Yeah. We got the first cup winner here with us.

4:28:37SpeakerYep.

4:28:38BubblemanWhat was that?

4:28:38Speaker89 or 80? I think it was 88. I won the first cannabis cup. Correct. Was that the next year? Ed Rosenthal and Neville fixed the contest. And yeah, so I never entered it again. Was that the medicines clone that won? Yes, it was. Interesting. Sam, Sam has a registered variety of skunk, a skunk one selection that's a cultivar that he selected after thousands and thousands of plants that he registered as a medical variety.

4:29:17SpeakerAnd it's called MedSins, M-E-D-S-I-N-S. That's the registered name of the cultivar. So, but it's a skunk one selection. And it won the first Cannabis Cup. It was the first drug variety registered Under UPOB by Breeders Rights.

4:29:38Archive SeedsIn the world, yeah. How would you describe the like smell, flavor of that clone?

4:29:44SpeakerIt was fairly sweet. It wasn't really skunky because I had already sweetened it up and I didn't do it by adding other varieties. I did it within the gene pool of skunk number one. I just made selections for about a decade. In California, and then when I moved over here, I did a huge fennel hunt with 20,000. And what was funny was I selected out the 10 best boys and the 10 best girls from that 20,000 plants.

4:30:19SpeakerAnd a few years later, I did a, I used, what do you, how do you say it, Ryan? Epiphan? Oh, Ethelon, yeah, Ethelon. Yeah, I used that to transform my favorite male skunk number one, transform it into a female. And I was fucking shocked and surprised. It was much sweeter than any of the girls. You also took those ever-growing seeds?

4:30:59Archive SeedsDid you ever grow seeds or able to make seeds from a male reversal plant?

4:31:03SpeakerOh, yeah, sure. Easy.

4:31:05Archive SeedsAnd so what did you find results from? You know, you reverse a male plant and then you cross it with a male.

4:31:13SpeakerWell, it depends what kind of pollen source you're using. But it's 25% X. What is it, Ryan? Yeah.

4:31:31SpeakerWell, I'm going to publish on that, so I don't want to say too much, but I will tell you, you get 25% females out of the deal. If you self-cross a male, you get 25% females back. Yes, and the rest are... But they're only from the genetics of the male plant. Yes, correct.

4:31:46Archive SeedsBut those 10... Has anybody found anything cool in that or not?

4:31:53SpeakerWell, what I used it for was if you have a bunch of males and you don't know which male to use, I would transform my males into a female so that I could get the terpene and the cannabinoid profiles that I was looking for as a male. Yeah, the problem with doing that, though, is that the ethophon influences the terping profile. Like, that's part of the expression system, so you're not...

4:32:22SpeakerIt's not... It's a hint, but it's not really... Especially, you transform a male into a female, but it's a very masculine female phenotype. I mean, it doesn't have proper feminine form the way A female cannabis plant does.

4:32:49SpeakerOn that 10 by 10, though, you took those 10 males and 10 females and made 100 families from them. Didn't you do that, Cross? Correct. And then the next year I grew another 20,000 and did a trial of 100 families. Correct. So I grew 200 of each, 100 females and 100 males of each of the 100 families.

4:33:13SpeakerYeah, and that's what you used to select the parental generation. Yeah, that's what let me know what produced the most consistent, what produced the most branchy, the most resin, the most easiest to clone, blah, blah, blah, blah.

4:33:29SpeakerThat kind of work is nobody does that.

4:33:31MojaveI like how you blah, blah, blah, major research for years and years of major research. That's blah, blah, blah, just things that, yeah.

4:33:43SpeakerWell, it could be what's done with everything. But, you know, it wasn't easy back then because nowadays you can legally do that kind of work, but it's so expensive. Most people don't want to spend that much time and that many plants on a single breeding project. Yeah. Was there another...

4:34:09Archive SeedsWas there another population of those 100 families that you liked a lot but didn't move forward for for other reasons?

4:34:19SpeakerWell, no, I kept all 10 males and all 10 females. In the end, I only used about five of the males that I really liked the best. And the 10 females, I still had them for years and years and years and years. Most of those I had... Those are the ones that you labeled the colors, right? Yes, I labeled the 10 female selections, just simple colors, so I didn't have to write labels and numbers.

4:34:53SpeakerI could just put the color on it, and I knew what it was. But the truth is, though, Fletcher, that all of that stuff is still in a catalog. Like there's yellow crossed, you know, was it 1.1 and then red and white went to a pharmaceutical company and like all the different lines had their own. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Oh, yeah.

4:35:18Archive SeedsI was just I was just curious if any other lines had stood out to him for, you know, some other reason.

4:35:24SpeakerWell, I had my personal favorites.

4:35:27Archive SeedsAnd that's that's what I was asking, really.

4:35:30SpeakerYeah, and everything else was still really, really super high quality. But yeah, my personal favorite was Medicence, which was red, but female. But my favorite male was either, I forget, 1.2 or 1.12. And yeah, but that's what I use it to make, you know, a hundred million fucking skunk seeds.

4:36:01Archive SeedsI bought plenty of those seeds, I'm sure, in the early 2000s. It's so funny.

4:36:07SpeakerI put in my mind about the price. It's not 10 cents anymore. It's $10,000 each, so you owe me.

4:36:14Archive SeedsRight. Well, I paid somebody a hundred bucks a pack back then.

4:36:20SpeakerThat's because I sold them only wholesale. And I would encourage people to sell them cheaply, less than a buck. But people did what they wanted. Once I sold my seeds, I really didn't think or worry about them anymore because I was a wholesaler. I sold them. You had to buy a couple of kilo minimum.

4:36:44Archive SeedsYeah, you're the mine.

4:36:46SpeakerSeed mine. Yeah. It was such a special smart setup too. I mean, that's why everybody was so jealous is that you had the license to do the chemical research and the government was really concerned about the chemicals and the resin and the diversion of that, but the seed was totally legal and they didn't even give it, they didn't even care about it even the slightest. So you know, it was it was legal to grow the seed.

4:37:17SpeakerIt was legal to sell the seed to pay my bank account and blah, blah, blah. And I was able to sell for less than 10 cents a pop. And still make a great profit. And still provide The plant material that founded the first cannabis pharmaceutical company. You had both sides of it going on. It was such a brilliant thing.

4:37:43BubblemanYeah, it was well done for sure. I remember seeing him at the cup one year and he always had a giant fucking, at least one big giant Ziploc bag full of seeds in his little side pouch bag. But maybe a couple.

4:37:58SpeakerI used to go in the Million Man March and hand out All three skunk number one seeds to anybody who was standing watching the Million Man March in Amsterdam. And people, I could, they were speaking Dutch and my Dutch is pretty bad, but I could understand it good enough that I could hear them saying, these aren't really skunk number one seeds, they're henup seeds, you know, hemp.

4:38:26SpeakerAnd I would say to them, no, I developed strength number one, and these are strength number one seeds. Do you remember that guy at the cup one year following us around because Sam was dropping screens? He'd smoke a ball and then put the screen away or toss it away. Some guy would come and pick up because there was remnants.

4:38:51BubblemanThose screens were probably, like people laughed at that guy, but I was like, that guy is smoking better than anyone at the cup right now except Sam.

4:39:00SpeakerYeah, true. Fair enough.

4:39:05BubblemanWhat time is it? It's 1.38. We've been going for four hours and almost 40 minutes. It's been a long past church. I know. It's been... Been a long one, man. Holy shit. I actually have a meeting in less than 22 minutes, and I have to eat a little bit of food. I wasn't even really thinking about that. But thanks, everyone, for coming out today. Appreciate all the good folks.

4:39:32Johnny B2021, yeah. AI is coming. I just found this. I was looking at that. It made me smile. Nice, nice.

4:39:41BubblemanWell, I, yeah, I would just say thank you to everyone. Thanks, Wade, for showing up and sharing your time with us as always. We hope you're feeling good today and having a good, good, good day with, with Monica. Glad that you got out and saw those people and got recognized and will continue to get recognized. I'll put up your GoFundMe again in my description of Hash Church.

4:40:06BubblemanSo you guys that aren't able to meet Wade in person, you can still certainly support him. That would be amazing and awesome from the Hash Church family to you. We thank you for that. And Skunk Man Sam, thank you today for just being here.

4:40:20SpeakerI want to say one more thing. Please, please. When we were at the Cannabis Cup event in the Pax Party House and Delph was there for the first time demonstrating his machine, I thought over some of my water hash. And I said, here, try this. And he smoked it. He almost exploded and then said, this is too strong. I don't like it.

4:40:54BubblemanI believe it, man, that your shit was like, I wouldn't say it was too strong, but it was almost too strong for me, which is very, like shocked me. It shocked me. So I could imagine how that would be like to like a, like a regular person that just kind of liked weed.

4:41:09SpeakerHe had shared some of his water hash with me and I laughed at it.

4:41:16BubblemanWas it water hash you shared with him or your dry sift? It was my water hash. I made water hash just to show him how good water hash could be. It'd be nice. Yeah, well, I mean, listen, the screens are what cut on, not the separation of maturity or whatnot. So you can't keep the truth down sometimes. What people are going to go with, that's what they're going to go with.

4:41:40BubblemanSo surrender to the flow. Thanks, Johnny B, for coming and chatting with us on AI and Mojave, Richmond in the house again. Thank you so much. Dr. Mark, who's already left. Thank you for showing up today. And thank you, Chimera, for coming in and sharing your deep breadth of knowledge with us and funny cannabis cup stories. And it was a pleasure to see you, Fletch. You're always nice to have in and share your perspective.

4:42:06BubblemanI love how you. You ask Sam questions and you kind of get in there to unleash some of these, just to unleash some of this information that is otherwise maybe never going to be unleashed. And the more we record of it, the better, in my opinion. Thank you to the people that watched Hash Church all day long. I see Robert is in the chat, Carol LEDs. Fucking one of the best dudes ever.

4:42:28BubblemanMiss that guy. And everyone else, bingo Lombardi for holding chat down. Thank you so much. Next week will be the 15th episode of Hash Church 5.0. We're going strong. We're going to make three, I guess we're going to make four months here soon enough in a couple of weeks. So may the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later, everyone. And I will bid you adieu for now.

4:42:52BubblemanPeace out, everybody. Peace.