Static Sift Heritage and Dry Sift Tech

0:02BubblemanCancel.

0:22BubblemanAll right, just waiting for the commersh to come. Just got to do that commersh. Totally separate commercials on each one. I appreciate that. Interesting. Interesting. All right, welcome everybody. Welcome everybody. Hash Church season 11, episode 31. We're more than halfway through the year of doing Hash Church. We haven't missed a single episode. I want to thank every one of you, particularly Bingo Lombardi and Max John Maddox.

0:56BubblemanI see Ty Pilgard is in the house. I did not get my ears lowered, but I did put my hair in a little ponytail there, bud. Just to keep it out of my face. So as always, I would love to start by, you know, shouting out our sponsors. So we will start off with The Press Club. Discover the Press Club's premium washing and pressing screens crafted for flawless tax extraction.

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3:04BubblemanGive those guys a shout and show them the best support that you can. Last but certainly not least, we've got to shut out the bubble bags.

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3:49BubblemanI will also add that last month some of you bought bubble bags and I'm offering to get on the phone with you for some tips and tricks. I'm going to do the same thing for the month of August. Half an hour call if you buy some bubble bags and can prove that you bought them this month. You'll have a half an hour of free consulting with me in regards to kind of Just setting you on the right pathway and answering any questions you might have.

4:14BubblemanSo yeah, there we go. Thank you to all the sponsors. I'm going to let in the hardcores. Who's more hardcore than Etienne Fontaine? Nobody. So he's coming in first. Then we'll drop in with Colin. Colin is damn hardcore as well. And then we got the young buck. Wolverine Dabs is in the house today. Wolverine is actually on his way to my house at one point in time today.

4:37BubblemanWe're going to be doing a little bit of fun fun with the static sifting. We'll talk about that in a little bit. And yeah, he's just doing all sorts of cool, fun things. Keeping it, keeping it iry. And welcome. Welcome, gentlemen. I like that. Look at that. Here we go. Get that camera organized, bro.

4:57Etienne FontanMorning, B-Man.

4:59BubblemanMorning. All righty. You guys. Oh, sorry. It's me. I have not attached my headphones. So you guys are all talking. Here you go, buddy.

5:14Collin PalmerI did a jump with the 101st Airborne in like 2009. Nice. How far did you jump from? I can't remember. I did training in the morning and we jumped in the afternoon. It was super intense. I remember seeing my brother at the edge of the plane like this and he's looking behind me. It's crazy. And one of the guys that was in the platoon takes his foot on my brother's back and he just goes...

5:41Collin PalmerAnd pushes them.

5:42BubblemanIt's a good way to get going if you're worried about it. I did a 12,500 foot jump myself with my wife and a couple of friends. Totally on the like, just sitting around puffing one day going, fuck, you know, it would be fun. We should go do this. And literally an hour later, we were like, pulling up in my van, jumping out and just being like, okay, so what are we doing?

6:04Collin PalmerYo, and it's funny because like when you get out, I don't know if you've ever, I don't know if anyone else here has ever jumped, but like it's intense. Like it's a moment where you're like, what did I just decide to do? I like the jumping. I didn't like the stopping.

6:20Etienne FontanThe pulling of the shoot. How fast that ground comes right at your face. You're like, oh, I couldn't believe how tight gravity is very on.

6:28BubblemanDude, how tight the harness gets when that happens. That is outrageous. Like you're stopped. You're, you're, you're, you know, you're, you're falling. And then all of a sudden you're like shooting back up into the sky. It's the weirdest feeling that, that thing for me, like the being on the parachute, I kind of felt like a little bit motion sick, but falling. Thank you so much for watching.

7:10BubblemanOr, yeah, no, sorry. We jumped out of the plane last and we landed first. That's how it was. He said we did a minute and eight seconds of free fall, which I was just like, that's, it seemed like 10 minutes, dude.

7:23Collin PalmerIt does, man. I remember vividly seeing my shoot as I'm like, as I pull it out, it just twists and then all of a sudden go poof. And I'll just never forget that image. Yeah, it's incredible. It's one of those things where Be safe out there if you're going to do it, but. If you're going to jump out of a perfectly good plane that doesn't need to be jumped out of.

7:47BubblemanYeah.

7:48Etienne FontanWell, at least be committed. True, true.

7:51BubblemanWell, welcome to Wolverine Dabs. He's going to be jumping on a plane and popping up here in a little bit. Spend the next three or four days with me at my house.

7:59SpeakerYep, yep, very excited.

8:01BubblemanYeah, me too, man. Fuck, we're gonna have a blast. My buddies have over 10 kilos of sift that they've got sitting waiting for us to go and play with. We've got... Awesome. Well, we have a lot of work in a sense. We have a 1.6 version of Sambo Creek filtration that my partners have in Abbotsford and they, you know, I figured, wow, I'm getting... Logan up here would be a good idea.

8:24BubblemanLogan and I have been talking a little bit about a Washington play with his group and my Bubble Man brand. We've just been talking about it. It hasn't moved anywhere yet, but we've started that discussion. And then I was kind of like, well, why don't you come up here for a couple of days? I got the 1.6 in Abbotsford. I got the 1.8 in Delta. And I have the little home desktop plasmatic unit here at my house in Lions Bay.

8:50BubblemanAnd of course, Logan's been, you know, pretty much one of those guys that has been playing with this maybe the longest. Yeah, yeah, me too.

9:20BubblemanMe too, dude. You're always making great hash down there. So and just getting together and spending a bit of time and seeing if we can't execute, you know, our future ideas here. So it should be pretty fun getting getting in. How long have you been playing with static now with the heads? 2020 is when I started. Yeah, a good amount of time. You got Tan Hat. I had screens from 2015.

9:45SpeakerActually, my buddy Dylan, he's known as Dabtown on Instagram. He left me his screens when he went to go work in Michigan. And he was like, Dry Sift's the best. You should really try it out. You should try to make it. And I was like, Okay, whatever. I set the screens aside for a little bit. The screen sat there for a couple of months until I started looking up videos of it.

10:06SpeakerAnd that's when I actually, I found Pan Hat's videos on YouTube. And there was no speaking, no nothing. It was just him rubbing a screen. And then I saw your videos where you were explaining more of the science behind it. And then from there, I just, I mean, I just kind of took off. I was standing behind a screen for 14 hours a day, every single day, Because I was obsessed over the purity of the trichomes and the effect that it had on me was out of this world.

10:33BubblemanYeah, it's night and day. You can't really imagine it. It's why the first time I ever smoked Skunk Man Sam's hash, it like rocked me. Like, and I had been kind of in training. I was, you know what? It was very much... You know, if you read True Hallucinations by Terrence McKenna, there's a point where he was offered DMT and he says, well, having been a graduate of Albert Hoffman, I figured no problem, you know, little did he know what he was about to, you know, and so for me, I felt the same way.

11:06BubblemanI was a graduate of Full Melt Bubble, bro. I was smoking Full Melt Bubble for at least a couple of years before I went to Sam's, met him, and You know, was introduced to what he was smoking. Dude, that shit was the difference of DMT from LSD to what I was smoking from what he was smoking. It was so shocking. It actually scared me at one point in time.

11:33BubblemanI was like, I'll never forget exhaling it. And being like, oh, this is what, because I've gotten people that stoned with my own hash. And then they've been like, what did you put in there? Did you put heroin in there? Did you put other drugs?

11:45SpeakerI've had the same questions. I've had the same exact questions. And I've had moments where I myself have smoked the hash and I'm just like, what am I doing with my life? Where am I going? What is the plan for all of this? Like, am I making a mistake? And I'll just be pacing around my house for like 20, 30 minutes until like, I'm like, All right, one more dab, one more.

12:07SpeakerI'll just be, I'll end up watching cartoons and sitting on the couch as long as I like, I just need to smoke a little bit more.

12:13BubblemanYeah, yeah, no joke. It's a serious thing. I've done it myself. Not as hard and heavy as it was done to me by Sam the first time he met me. Because if you ever hear anyone talk about stories about Sam, he tested people. He would test you. He would see if you could hang, so to speak. And and in a sense, like what I really saw from Sam was he was just a big kid looking for someone who could puff like him.

12:41BubblemanHe was always looking for that. Now, it's OK if you weren't that if you were science, if you were some other aspect that he had an interest in, you could gain his attention as well. But no one had more respect. In Sam's mind than the people who could puff and puff tough. So yeah, obviously I didn't want to throw up, pass out and shit myself while I was at his place the first time.

13:06BubblemanBut those were all the standard worries that I had after taking the first dab and thinking, holy shit, I've never been this high. Well, taking the next 39 dabs, like, and I'm telling you, he gave me 40 fucking dabs at his house. This was... This was my test. And yeah, it was wonderful. It was amazing. The most stoned I've ever been, leaving his apartment and just walking all jerky in Amsterdam and being like, oh, this is like, this is a classic like bubble man hash story I'm living through right here.

13:36BubblemanI just like met my mentor. I've begun this crazy journey. This was over 20 years ago that this occurred. And yeah, just, you know, after Sam's passing, it's... I like to reminisce even more often than not. Welcome, Dr. Mark. Hey. I like the hat. You're looking good with a hat, dude. I feel like you don't wear a hat very often.

13:59DrYeah, that's the medicinal genomics.

14:02BubblemanI noticed. Looks good. Looks good on you. Shout out to Kev.

14:06DrYeah, it was part of the swag at CanMed this year.

14:11BubblemanOh, yes.

14:12DrWonderful.

14:13BubblemanAnyone pay any attention to the 60th anniversary Grateful Dead concerts that occurred, I guess, starting on Jerry's birthday? You see some of that stuff, guys?

14:23Etienne FontanI've got friends there, and one of my friends is hanging out with Big Steve from the Dead Shows. Nice. One of my veterans is a big deadhead, and he and Big Steve have become buds, so he's hanging with Big Steve this weekend, running around, and he's sending me pictures, and I appreciate it. It's not my scene, but it seems from... All tents and purposes. All dead heads are on deck and they're doing their thing and it's beautiful thing and everybody's having fun.

15:00Etienne FontanIt's a very joyful thing. You know, it's a very memorable thing for people here in the Bay Area, myself included. You know, we used to, you know, work the dead shows, right? And when I mean work the dead shows, it was for real. We worked during the dead shows, usually gathering signatures. It wasn't the hangout that everybody else was hanging, which, you know, we did our best to hang as we could, but you know.

15:23Etienne FontanYou couldn't dose and be like, sir, where's your registered address? Are you interested in being a Republican, Democrat, or independent? Or space the fuck out? What would you like to be? So yeah, it's a different thing working them as opposed to just free floating. But it looks a lot fun free floating because it sounds like everybody afforded their tickets because they sound like they were expensive as fuck.

15:49BubblemanI saw Debbie. Debbie got three miracles, one for each night. She was like, she's like, I'm looking for a job and I'm looking for some miracles. And like five minutes later, she's like, well, I got three miracles, but I still need a job. Right on. I'm like, so getting free tickets to the Grateful Dead is easier than getting a job. And they're selling cannabis there.

16:09Etienne FontanSo that's the first, I guess, legal weed at a Grateful Dead affiliated show. Because Lord knows, we all bought, scored, smoked shitloads of weed there. But for some reason, they're selling legal weed now, which, you know, are they going to be selling the same hash balls with the armpit hairs in them? I mean, come on, people. I hope so. That's where I kept my hash balls. You know.

16:34Etienne FontanI mean, come on, who hasn't had one of those hash balls with an armpit hair in them or not? You know, come on now. Little wook hair? Mm-hmm.

16:42Collin PalmerYeah, little wook hair never hurt anybody.

16:43Etienne FontanIt's like that thing in the cracker jacks that you find, you know?

16:50DrJust really great to see such enthusiasm for the music, you know, 30 years after Jerry's gone, you know, it's just unbelievable. I guess just a testament.

17:00Etienne FontanThe only thing I ever did was elbow Jerry by accident backstage. Sorry. It was at the Chinese. We'll forgive you. 94 and I was backstage, turned around. Oops, sorry. Oh, Jerry, sorry. Yeah.

17:13DrYeah, that may have knocked him over in 94. Holy shit, right?

17:18BubblemanMy favorite story was... Was my buddy Dave who saw Jerry backstage years ago and he was like, oh, I just, it was my only opportunity. And he's like, I just wanted to smoke a joint with Jerry. But all I had was this like super, super bunk weed. But I was like, I'm not going to lose this opportunity. And he like, he used his opportunity with this bunk weed.

17:37BubblemanAnd he's like, hey, Jerry, you want to smoke a joint? He's like, sure. And Jerry lights the joint and just goes. He's like, oh man, that's garbage. And like throws it on the ground and stomps on it and then walks away. And that's my buddy's story that he still tells to this day. He's like, I don't even give a fuck, dude. It's my story. I'm not changing it.

17:56BubblemanIt's exactly what happened. I fucked up. And it was fucking, it was amazing. I can't even tell you. Watching him just like the face he made and then throwing it down and stepping on it and kind of walking away mildly pissed off was just like awesome.

18:12Collin PalmerVery Jerry.

18:15Etienne FontanOh my God. Watch out, kid. Sorry.

18:19Collin PalmerYeah, it's funny. Yeah, that's awesome. The thing I think is amazing about the Dead is their long tenor of songwriting and the decades that it moved through and the different... Stiles that they move through as a band. It's really impressive. You know, I think that's the most amazing thing about it is that they have this like real book almost. And when you're going to school for jazz or jazz composition, you have to learn this thing called the real book.

18:50Collin PalmerAnd they sort of have this American songbook of music that's sort of the real book of the dead. And you see all these other people around the world playing them as if it is the real book. It's really cool. As a young musician that spent their life studying music, it's very inspiring to see their work kind of live on in these ways. It's really cool. You know, it's amazing.

19:18BubblemanNo one could have ever, you know, you just could have never. It's like, fuck, of course. Of course, the whole concept of the jam band, everything that they did, the let's focus on playing, not like let's focus on touring more than commercial albums. Let's allow tape, just the tiny little simple things, allowing tapers. Probably increased the level of obsessive, obsessive, compulsive behavior from the fans. Like creating that level of collectability was brilliant.

19:51Collin PalmerYeah, no, it really is. And the other thing is that I've started to notice is that there's much like Miles Davis, how his players splintered off and created all these other little tiny pockets of innovation and music. Same thing's happening with or has happened with the dead. And you now have people like You know, Billy Strings, you have David Grissman's son that's kind of keeping that little time period sort of alive.

20:18Etienne FontanYou know, the Allman Brothers also are touring under a new kind of... Sure, the family band.

20:23Collin PalmerYeah, I saw them.

20:24Etienne FontanRight, right. So the tradition seems to be continuing, right?

20:30DrDon't forget the greatest band on earth today, right? Which is those four youngsters from Vermont, right? So, yeah, I actually had two hash church shout outs at the fish shows last week, Marcus. One from, let's see, I think it's called 420, Fish 420 Lover or something like that, I forget, I don't know. But they're like, hey, Dr. Mark, Dr. Mark, calling me out of a crowd of people, you know?

20:58Etienne FontanYou're like, oh, hey, what the fuck, dude?

21:00DrYeah, taking a selfie, you know, hash church call out.

21:04BubblemanYeah, so. Why aren't we doing hash church fish shirts? You know the old fish shirt that was a fish and said fish inside? Why couldn't it say hash church inside? It could, you know, it's like always, yeah. I'll make one. That's the beauty of the life. That's it.

21:18Collin PalmerI'm making it. I'm making one. Okay, it's on you. You have to make more than one, dude. What the fuck? Listen, I'll make them all. I'm going to make them all. I'll make them all.

21:27BubblemanAll right, let me just mark this down. Colin's making all the shirts. I will.

21:31Collin PalmerListen, you can hold me to that. I've been wanting to anyway. So this is like this pushes me to that point.

21:37Etienne FontanSo I'll roll the joints.

21:40Collin PalmerI'll smoke.

21:41DrYou know, they they sound better than ever. You know, I mean. I know it sounds cliche. I keep on saying that. I've been saying that, I think, since 2012. It's like they just keep on delivering on live performance. I mean, even on their worst night, they blow me away. I mean, if you just listen to the incredible... Musicianship and back and forth between, you know, Trey and Mike.

22:07DrI don't know if you know this, but they changed the stage setup and moved Fishman back over to the side. So Fishman's no longer in the middle. So Trey and Mike are right next to each other.

22:18BubblemanAs it should be.

22:20DrYeah. Well, that's the way it was back in the 90s, right? When we started going. I remember. So the other thing is that since they played the sphere, they've realized that most of their shit is coming through in-ear monitors. So they don't need all that those big speakers on stage anymore. So Mike doesn't play with a with a rig up. Well, not a conventional rig. I mean, because everything's going through.

22:48DrThank you for watching.

23:05DrColin, you got to see this thing. This thing is basically... I've seen it.

23:09Collin PalmerI've stood on it.

23:10DrIt gives him the vibrations as he's hitting his notes on the string. And the other thing is like halfway through some of the jams, he would step on some pedal and this... Outerly world cosmic low-end noise with a high-end frequency clip would just proceed. And I don't even know how to describe it, but I went up to take a bathroom break, I think during disease or something like that.

23:40DrAnd even back on the lawn, Colin, I can feel that shit, man. It's like, oh my God, what the fuck note is that that he's hitting? But he hits some note. I know he has to activate it with his foot because you could see his foot physically coming down and hitting something and holding something. And then when he takes his foot away, that noise goes away. But yeah, it's this super...

24:04DrLow frequency, yeah, synth pedal, or I don't know what the fuck it is, but yeah.

24:10Collin PalmerYeah, it's an octave pedal that emulates the modulation of what an oscillator could do. So it's really cool. I think that's what it's called, the oscillator.

24:25DrGo back to the music in the scene, man. I mean, I... I mean, just looking at like how they... So we just went to three shows in Saratoga Springs. For those of you who don't know, Saratoga Springs is the home of a... Well, they have like... They've had horse racing there for years, but they had these natural water springs that during the Gilded Age, they believed... That the water from Saratoga somehow was like the fountain of youth, you know?

24:54DrSo they have all these pools and ponds kind of set up at the state park and they have a performing arts center there. I saw the dead there a bunch in the 80s. And it's kind of like, I guess, as hometown a fish shows as you could have for a Vermont band because there's not quite a venue that size in Vermont. So, yeah, for us, it's our local shows.

25:20DrAnd, you know, the hotels... Thank you for watching.

25:38DrYou know, fish heads. And there's a huge shakedown street, probably not as big as the one there in Golden Gate Park. I was like the one like real cultural icon that, you know, the Grateful Dead live experience brought. To every concert that they did, right? There was always kind of like this vending shakedown area where you can get, you know, everything from grilled cheeses to burritos. There was always people peddling glass.

26:07DrYou could always hear guys walking around doses, doses, doses, right? And for a lot of people, I mean, that was like where they stocked up on drugs when Grateful Dead Tour came in. It was our Silk Road. Yeah, kind of like that, like this traveling circle. So I've said it a bunch of times on Hash Church. I do think Grateful Dead Tour, right, in part, was part of the cannabis revolution that brought good NorCal Since Amelia and Good Hash and other good artisan cannabis across the country.

26:43DrAnd we all have a bag seed story from Summer Tour 91. I mean, I remember getting a bag of some Big Sur Holy Nug. And yeah, there were a couple seeds on the bottom, grew them a couple years later. The plants looked weird, but the weed was awesome. You know, just so like, I think, again, Part of like what you're seeing over there in Golden Gate Park, ATN, I'm sure you know it because you live it.

27:07DrYou live in the Bay Area, right? So you see it every day. Grateful Dead culture is ingrained just in the life. Thank you so much for joining us.

27:42DrThe iconography and the symbolism and the skulls and the... I remember thinking about like, you know, growing up as a deadhead, my parents were always like dead set against it because they looked it up in the... And in the encyclopedia, the Internet of the Day, and they saw the human being and, you know, acid tests like, oh, my God, what is my kid doing following this band around the country?

28:11DrHoly shit. Right. But then years later, scientists. But then years, years later, when my dad came and saw me play Grateful Dead music to a bar full of packed Hippies at the Modown back in 2015. So the band Mo has got this festival in the summertime. They call the Modown in the summer or the winter. They have the Snowdown. So they would invade Killington with like bands and music and snowboarding and just all kinds of crazy shit all weekend.

28:44DrAnd so my parents came out and saw me play Grateful Dead music in front of a live audience for the first time ever, you know, and my dad got it. He's like, oh, I get it. I get it now. This is like, this is beyond, you know, this. Jerry Garth, like, he couldn't understand why we would need to go three nights in a row. Like, like, couldn't understand, like, you know, you just saw this band last night.

29:09DrYou need to go again tonight. I'm like, Dad, it's like a baseball game. It's different every time, right? There's certain things that are the same, but there's certain things that change all the time, right? And so that unpredictability, but man, there was nothing like... the chemistry that jerry had you know when everyone walked through that hall to get into that arena everyone in that arena was locked in on that guy everybody everybody in that arena was paying attention to what jerry was doing on stage and during the jerry brent years man it was just really amazing to observe the chemistry on stage chemistry that jerry And Brent had together.

29:53DrIt was just amazing to watch those two guys play. And I think for a while, Jerry was kind of on the other side of the stage, but then they moved Jerry next to Brent. And then, yeah, the Grateful Dead sound changed because Jerry and Brent had this chemistry together.

30:08BubblemanListening to your passion and love of the dead. And, you know, the other day I was on the beach and I was talking to a woman here in my local neighborhood and I was like, oh, do you like watch hockey or know much about hockey? And she's like, oh, my God, I married someone whose brother was the captain of the Coyotes, the Arizona Coyotes. So she's like basically was like experienced hockey royalty, experienced every backstage, every game from the box, like all the top experiences that you could experience.

30:38BubblemanAnd she absolutely doesn't like hockey at all. And I was like, wow, you know, if you could. And well, it's like it is like even the same way. It's not his scene. But if he could figure out how to way to tap into it and make it his scene, he could experience the same thing you're expressing right now. And this is the weird thing about being a human being.

30:59BubblemanWe seem to like pick and choose the things we want to be into. But if we really wanted to, We could enjoy everything. You just have to surrender to it. You have to surrender to the flow. And I'm certainly not pointing you out in particular, ATN, because we all do it in hundreds of different ways in our lives through. And I was sitting there listening to her going, wow, like you had all these incredible hockey experiences.

31:27BubblemanImagine how much you would have enjoyed that if you just would have liked it. But instead she didn't. She was like, oh, I could have cared less. I was like, oh my God, like there it is. Like the biggest crime of humanity is when we, when we lack, I don't want to say gratefulness, but like, The vision to see the opportunity. Like, I'm just envious every time you talk about fish and the dead because I'm up in Canada and they don't come up here anymore and I haven't been down there in 30 years.

31:58BubblemanYeah, I was sending you videos, right, Marcus? Dude, trust me, dude. I love when you send me videos. And I'm like, I can tell how much Mark likes it because he doesn't send 10-second videos. This motherfucker holds... Oh, that means I'm too high to pick up my camera. He's holding his camera up for... four minutes at a time and i'm like his arms have to be hurting i know because that's what i do at shows i'm a taper i'm a recorder i just get obsessed with capturing whatever that vibe is that mark was just describing that people who don't like fish or the dead were probably like oh come on guys let's talk about hash it's so weird how we can be the victims of our lack of of Of being open to imagining, you know, for me, hockey was very much like Etienne with the dead.

32:48BubblemanI just could care less about it. I may have told this story a few times. I started watching it really to kind of reconnect with my mom, who was a big Winnipeg Jets fan. Well, dude, last season, I was, I enjoyed it so much. It was up and down. It was like, I am one of those people where if a goal gets scored, I'm like, yeah, oh shit, shit.

33:08BubblemanSo it's this crazy way like music to just tap into your emotions to these highs and lows. And it's very much like like a drug. And then you throw some drugs on top of that. Oh, my God. No wonder music's amazing.

33:23Etienne FontanI want to clarify. I mean, it's again, as a musician, I love the scene. I appreciated the scene. I appreciated it. There's no way as a musician I could not appreciate when we would like work the Jerry shows. Jerry shows were definitely more intimate at the Warfield, right? But Jerry made sure that if Kiana's gonna be there, they have to be within my line of sight. So he would actually request that we be seen so he could see us working.

33:56Etienne FontanAnd that's what we would figuratively do the entire time is we're talking to people, engaging them just outside of a very small venue. But he would call guests up and they would go for four hours. John Hopper and them, they would go for an hour. Then he'd call up, you know, Dickie Betts. And then that next thing you know, they would jam for another six hours. So, I mean, it was just incredible, the musicianship and the scene itself.

34:26Etienne FontanWhere else could you literally see Hells Angels and the most peaceful people just hanging out right next to each other, passing joints? Because people smoked the entire time in the Warfield for Jerry's shows. And if you were not at a dead show, you have to realize there are a series of people that sat and were made to sit around Jerry in front of the stage and blow cannabis smoke from their lungs in his direction.

34:55Etienne FontanAnd they were then set behind this whole group of spinners. And when I mean a whole group of spinners, You if you have never seen a whirling dervish go look at it and now imagine about 150 to 200 of them right behind the immediate stage right correct me if i'm wrong mark and then you'd have them and then you would have the audience but it was the smokers the spinners then the people and just that alone how that was all I had great respect for just that kind of hierarchy and expectation.

35:35Etienne FontanYou know what I'm saying? Because that was every dead show we went at here in the Bay Area. Now, don't get me wrong. The spinners did not come for the Jerry shows. Everybody sat down and were standing around dancing. They weren't really doing the whole whirling things. That was mostly at the official dead shows. Correct me if I'm wrong.

35:55DrYeah, I mean, they were a fixture in the in the hall of like the if you saw them in an arena show where it was like a hockey arena or a basketball arena or something like that, they'd be any outer perimeters. Right. And so if you went out to get like a beer concessions or something like that, you couldn't help but run into spinners out in the hallway because they were just.

36:16DrYou're spinning out there because the music could be heard and there's no, you're not confined to a seating area. And I did have kind of a little run in with security on Sunday night. I had never been in all my years of seeing shows You know, I'd never been threatened to be thrown out by security, but I got threatened three times by three different security people. And it was, yeah, for just basically dancing in the aisle.

36:48DrThey needed to keep the aisles clean and they're just, you know, looking to kind of come by and give people a hard time for dancing in the aisle. That's always my favorite.

36:59BubblemanNo dancing.

37:00DrIt's like... Yeah, I mean, again, like, I think if you go to some concerts there, like I'm sure if you saw your typical 70s band revival concert, there wouldn't be people just dancing everywhere, right? It was like at a fish show, everyone's on their feet during every note of every song, everyone's dancing. There's no, there might be a few people sitting down and we had a family in our row that had some young children dancing.

37:27DrSo we were trying to just give the family a little more room so we're not there, you know, puffing like right in front of the kids. But, you know, like retrieving like balloons and glow sticks.

37:38BubblemanThose kids probably had better weed than you, Dr. Mark.

37:42DrKeeping the kids entertained. I mean, we brought our kids. I mean, my kids are old now. My son's 29. My daughter's 23. In fact, our daughter was with us and a bunch of her friends. But like people always ask, you know, do you bring kids to concerts? Is it is it OK to expose young children to this crazy festival kind of lifestyle where they're going to see people on psychedelics?

38:10DrThey're going to Smell interesting smells. They're going to see interesting sights. I mean, that's one of the things that I think makes the fish scene completely different is they have the most incredible lighting director who just turned 60 years old last weekend, Chris Corota, who's probably like the best lighting director in rock and roll today. I don't think there's anyone that could hold A candle, what Chris can do.

38:36DrAnd he got his job accidentally. How about that? Accidentally. What's that? He got his job accidentally. Yeah, I think so. I think.

38:44BubblemanYeah, he jumped on the board. And I don't know why the main guy had to do something. It was probably the bathroom, I would guess. Yeah. The story is he jumped on the board for like a couple of songs. And then at the end of the show, it was either Trey or Mike going, man, you really went off on the lights during like such and such a track.

39:05BubblemanAnd then he was like, hey, wait a minute. That was fucking me. And I guess he went over and said, hey, I was on the lights during those tracks. And Fucking history was created.

39:14DrGod, the lighting rig these days, Marcus, it's freaking amazing. I mean, it goes, it's got trusses that lower and, you know, take lights like right down on top of the stage. And then they have just incredible imagery. I mean, there's a lot of shit to look at. The point is, is like when you have kids at a show like that and they're looking around and they're seeing, This spectacular light show.

39:41DrThey're seeing people who are freaked out on drugs. They're seeing security hold down people for dancing. It's accelerated life lessons for kids.

39:55BubblemanIt's a microcosmos of the world. All right, here we go. Let's go in. We could be arrested in the parking lot, so be careful.

40:02DrBut if you're a young parent and you're thinking about bringing your kids to shows, go to a show and look at the face of the parents who decided to bring their kids to shows and see if you think it's a good idea, right? Because often parents there, if they're pros, It's all good, right? They're prepared for everything. Maybe they're up on the lawn. Maybe they got the earmuffs over the kids, you know, and you could kind of have kind of like a more family related event versus the intensity of being inside the pavilion underneath all those lights, looking at freaked out people here in trade, just completely unload on his instrument.

40:45DrI mean, just It's incredibly intense for somebody who's 62 years old, let alone somebody who's like 10 or 12 years old.

40:55BubblemanWell, I will say this too, bringing your kids to shows really affects your trip. It really does. You know, having these kids running around while you're tripping balls, hey, trying to take care of your kids. I'm joking, obviously, but I take my kids to shows.

41:08DrMy son's first show was at three months, summer 97. Yeah.

41:14SpeakerAt Virginia Beach.

41:15DrSo he was in the over the shoulder holder. I had the, you know, his ears all wrapped up and everything. And I remember he woke up during David Bowie and was just kind of like looking around like, what the fuck? Where is this place? Like, where did my parents bring me? I feel safe and secure, bro. Oh my God. Like, what is this?

41:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe spent a lifetime bringing our kids to shows. It's nice to see everyone. And I love this conversation. Obviously, Kelly's in the background. She's coming here momentarily. And I love all the enthusiasm. And I agree, you know, to bring a kid to the show. You know, you have to curate the experience a little bit different. It's not just go and get whacked and wonder where the hell your kid is, you know, rock med tent, you know, sorry, your kid, we're looking at, is there an adult in the house looking for a kid?

42:09Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, how many times have you heard that from the stage? But I will say that, you know, I do believe that it's probably the best thing you can do for your children because you're constantly in life trying to keep a good connection with your child. It's almost easy when they're young, they're breastfeeding, they're reliant on you, you're driving them all over the place and then they start turning to be a teenager or to start coming of age and then you start losing a lot of families, a lot of parents semi lose their grip on what's happening in the world and I feel like if you Let yourself bring your children to these events and do special things.

42:50Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThen you keep that connection. You're awesome like they are. Then they don't have to go to their friends to learn and experiment with drugs. I feel like that was the way that I grew up. My dad was from Oakland and my mom's from New York. They were very into having good times like everyone back in the day. But I always had a trust with my parents that I could talk to them about parties or life and I didn't feel like I needed to go experiment out on my own.

43:19Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo I think that there is a way that you can really establish family values at a psychedelic concert and really find yourself and find a new connection with your kid and then also hopefully listen to some really good music.

43:34SpeakerWell, and I think it's super important. We need to teach our children how to party.

43:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineTell the children the truth.

43:39SpeakerAnd that is the real truth. Like kids, kids go out and they don't really understand how to party and they're learning how to party from their peers. And we all know that that's super dangerous. If you're learning how to party from the peers that are your age or just right up above you. But if you're learning how to party from your parents. You know, we took our kid to so many different events.

44:02SpeakerYou know, Sky went to so many different events. And it's really funny. He was actually just talking about Shambhala last week because, you know, Shambhala just happened here. And he was just saying, you know, those are some of the best education that I ever had because Josh and I used to work the medical tent. And I was, I've always worked medical tents at all of the events.

44:23SpeakerThis is terrible. And it's not even just terrible. It's just that he got to see it. He got to see what GHB looks like. He got to see what an overdose of ketamine looks like. He got to see what a K-hole looked like, honestly. And he told me, you know, as a 28 year old, he said, thanks so much for that education, you guys. Like that was some of the best stuff ever.

44:44SpeakerI've never wanted to do any of those kind of drugs because I've seen it firsthand as well. And he was a little bit older when we took him into that. He was much older. Yeah, yeah. Like 12, 13, 14. He was older.

44:56Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHe was large enough for us to pull people out of the bushes who were tripping.

45:00SpeakerThat's basically it.

45:02Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt was nice to have.

45:04SpeakerBut it was really amazing. I just kept thinking, wow, you know, we really taught him how to party. So now he can go to an event. He knows what to bring. He knows where to go. He knows what to do. He knows who to talk to. He knows how to get in if he doesn't have tickets.

45:18Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineJust bring a ladder. Just bring a ladder and a high-vis suit to the front. You're in. It's done. Don't even say anything.

45:26DrI thought one of the interesting lessons that these kids... So this was a really super nice family. We were sitting in a Vermont section. Most of the people that we were sitting with were all from Vermont. And... And as you know, when kids are there, they're just absorbing it all in, right? And so what happened was several times, first a Green Mountain concert security guy came up who was really rude and got in my face and threatened to throw me out because I was just dancing, doing my red man dance.

45:58DrI wasn't bothering anybody and I was in my own seat and he came over to my seat and started hassling me because he saw that I was dancing in the aisle. We had the aisle seat, so... We're just trying to give the family a little bit room by dancing in the aisle a little bit. But obviously, when the security guy came up, I was in my seat.

46:18DrAnd why should I have to show somebody my ticket, which is on my phone? I'm dancing. You're ruining my concert vibe. Get the fuck out of my face. I'm just like, I'm not bothering anyone. So I think the kids who were observing this were seeing, ah, somebody in authority can be wrong. This guy was totally getting consternation from everybody he came up to. He was telling people to get in their seats.

46:47DrHe did nothing but create a real bad vibe in what was a truly happy place. Thank you for watching.

47:12DrWe're just all here having a good time at this show that we're all paying hundreds of dollars to attend. And now so I think the interesting thing, again, Kelly, was that the lesson there was like that these kids were seeing that not everybody in an authority position has kind of like the power like these guys were obviously on some power trip. Right. Thank you for watching.

47:52DrThank you for watching.

48:08DrI was I kept on bringing them balloons and glow sticks. They saw, oh, look at this nice man who's sitting next to my parents. And he's so cool because he constantly brings us toys. They were throwing around these big balloons that were blow up hot dogs. And they wrote up The signs of different songs. So there was the Harpua hot dog. There was the Runaway Jim hot dog.

48:30DrAnd so I grabbed one of the hot dogs and brought it back to them. So I made friends with the family. And again, we were just trying to give them a little room by extending into the aisle. But oh my God, it's against New York state law to be in the aisle during a concert. Oh my God, what's going to happen, you know? So yeah, I think, again, I agree what you're saying, Kelly, is that You know, being in RockMed, I've had some friends who participate in that.

48:57DrYeah, I mean, you're giving up your time to make sure that people at concerts are okay, right? And that, you know, most of that is just all on a volunteer basis. It's not like they're getting paid to do that. And yeah, there's always people who either take too much acid or get too sick. I always hate it when people just overdo the alcohol thing, especially on a hot summer day.

49:20DrThey're out on Shakedown Street. They're drinking Big Tall Boys, right? Maybe they're not eating right. Next thing you know, they're throwing up and you got some alcohol smelly puke to kind of clean up in your concert area. That totally sucks.

49:35BubblemanThe dirty underbelly.

49:38DrOh, man. As soon as you smell puke at a concert, you're like, come on, people. What the fuck, right?

49:45BubblemanI think right away, what is that aromatic volatile that I'm smelling in the air?

49:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe had an insane aromatic volatile incident last night. Our dog was kind of, you know, Panting and I was like, oh, he must have not eaten something that he liked yesterday. So, you know, I'm going to take him on a walk around our property three o'clock at night. And then all of a sudden he starts barking. What's going on? I'm like, get back here. You know, it's probably a wolf or something.

50:13Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, he's like, all of a sudden he just starts going. And freaking, I swear to God, like, what did he get into a bee's nest or something? No, he got direct shot by a skunk. 3 a.m. Just as massively potent as you've ever smelled any skunk. And I was just thinking about styles and sulfur compounds. I was thinking about 1990 bed shows. I was like, where's this roadkill skunk coming from?

50:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm like, dude, the weed smells just like the skunk when it does smell like a skunk. But wow.

50:50SpeakerAnd we were, we were just like, it's definitely a file. If there was ever any conversations about it, we're dealing with files here. So funny.

50:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then we got out the hydrogen peroxide soda and soap and just washed it in the middle of it. And then after it was all done, cause it's mercury retrograde, Kelly steps in a pile of shit and they are.

51:17BubblemanThat one's called butane thiol and two methyl butane thiol and three methyl butane thiol. Those are the three specific thiols found in the skunk spray.

51:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI can smell that butane just curling my nose hairs last night. Oh my God, dude.

51:34SpeakerHey, Marcus, can you say that again? The three different thiols? I'd love to hear that again.

51:38BubblemanYeah, I can post them into the chat as well. It's butanethyl, 2-methylbutanethyl, and 3-methylbutanethyl. I'll just put it in my little chat right there.

51:51SpeakerWanting to create or breed skunk.

51:54BubblemanYeah, figure that out. How could that be more than 1,200? That's so weird. Yeah.

52:00Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI do think that raising your kids on, you know, in that way is the best. I mean, our son, like I said, was raised there. He got together with Sierra Snodgrass, who grew up in the Snodgrass family, you know, and everyone knows about that situation. And these are the two most capable, amazing people on earth.

52:20SpeakerIt really is.

52:21Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm not even saying it because they're our, you know, son and daughter-in-law. These are two spectacular human beings. And you could drop them off in the Congo. They'll survive. You could drop them off in Brazil, Sao Paulo, downtown, shitty neighborhood. They're going to survive. Drop them off at a fish show, dead show. It's all good.

52:41SpeakerYeah, they're going to be making money. But it is really true. Like all of those like integration of social realities, whether it's You know, an incident from war or an incident, you know, just real life things, I guess, that you find yourself in or or or a social experiment like like a dead show or like a fish show. And I do think that it makes our children and the next generation much more adaptable.

53:12SpeakerAnd I know people that do do fish tour and do do dead tour. Are incredibly adaptable people because all different kinds of things are sort of thrown at you. I know that that for sure at Dead Tour, you know, we had to adapt to, you know, who was the feds, who was CIA on tour, who was the guy who was going to tell on you and it all had to be sort of underground.

53:32SpeakerAnd I just feel like those were keys that, you know, our kids will take into like downtown Thank you for joining us today.

54:08Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineTerry Wands out of Sunflower Sunflowers. I mean, we had fairy wings. We did everything in the power of cash in a parking lot and being able to drum up your own business or be an entrepreneur, have an idea before something, prepare for it, drive there, make a camp, go out, engage with people. Thank you for joining us today.

54:48Etienne FontanAnd continuity, right? It's also getting up the next day and doing it all over again, right? It's that taught repetition of acquire, make, sell, rejoice, rinse, lather, repeat, right?

55:05Collin PalmerTotally. Yeah. The lot economy, man. Like I sold t-shirts, dude. I sold organic produce one tour. That was like, and it, it was, it was just part of it.

55:16BubblemanIt almost didn't matter what you sold though, because the whole thing ran exclusively on like cannabis and prohibitive things. So, well, I just mean like not a lot of people were making all their money selling grilled cheeses. You know what I'm saying? Like without the prohibition dollar, without the fact that cannabis and psychedelics were so illegal and you would get like, and we're not talking about this, but tons of people got nailed and did the 10 years.

55:44BubblemanLike so many, an unbelievable, and those people doing those 10 years, that's what created the profit. So the karmic debt, you know, because I was always like, why are good people just getting snatched off like dead in fish tour? There's a karmic debt to producing all of your profits from prohibition money. I love being involved in cannabis. I just don't want my profit to be based on people serving time in jail.

56:12BubblemanI just would rather the profits be minuscule and then I could just do what I love. But back then, holy shit, you could sell like a pound and make thousands. Thank you for watching.

56:52BubblemanIt's walking around.

56:52DrAnd then just beyond that, everyone's sucking on gas.

56:56BubblemanThat was the one part I never really liked. The nitrous mafia. Those guys were always a little bit, especially on the East Coast in Boston shows.

57:04DrBigger than ever, Marcus.

57:06BubblemanI can't imagine. Well, I can't imagine because I remember a guy in Boston telling me how profitable it was and I don't remember the numbers, but it was stupid. He's like, yeah, my buddy's a dentist and we get these canisters and they cost this much and this is how much we get per balloon and this is how many balloons I get. I was just like,

57:25Etienne FontanOh, I see. They avoided us at Cannes, fortunately, because as you were saying, right, lot mentality. Well, that we took that lot mentality and we took it on the road for legalization of cannabis. That's what we did in Cannabis Action Network. And we had benefactors like Ed Rosenthal and others who would donate us their books. Where they would donate, they would basically front us the books, their books, and then we would go on tours and sell the books and send the money home.

57:59Etienne FontanAnd then we do the same thing with t-shirt vendors. I don't remember if you all remember back in the 90s, they had these, what we'll call did you know shirts. They had a different graphic on the front and on the back, they had the did you know cannabis facts that Jack would usually spout, right? One acre hemp equals four acres of trees, right? It was this One guy out of Ohio who actually did that.

58:22Etienne FontanAnd he would send us, you know, lots of his shirts and, you know, small, medium, large XL. And, you know, our whole duty was to maintain, you know, the stock that we had. So we had grow books. We of course had high times because everybody bought that, you know. Of course, we sold the hemp twine and the hemp jewelry. We usually had one of our can people usually making, right, the hemp jewelry.

58:46Etienne FontanSo they would buy the twine from us, make the jewelry, and then sell the jewelry at the table. And then we had free literature. And then we had a hemp museum, which had different representations of hemp plastic, hemp stocks, hemp fiber, you know, so that people could, you know, tactically go over and touch it. We felt it was such an integral part Tool. And then, of course, we also signed initiatives and got people registered to vote.

59:17Etienne FontanAnd that's what got the attention of the Siva Foundation and the Grateful Dead. And of course, the Horde tour and Lollapalooza tour when they were just like, sure, you guys come attached to us, kind of be our little lamp race of cannabis. And we're going to go all around the country and you educate the people. And that's what we did. I did that for two years where I went through 47 states doing rallies, teach-ins, and these rock and roll tours and met thousands of people.

59:48Etienne FontanAnd literally our day would start at Kinko's, the Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:00:18Etienne FontanKid, whatever found it in your laundry, opened it up and would then ask you questions. It was a way of finding, you know, unique ways, grassroots ways of engaging the public in these discussions that they were too afraid to have around cannabis. It was really the genius of Debbie and the early can group. To use psychology to, you know, go out and as we know, grassroots organizing is the same as it ever was.

1:00:48Etienne FontanIt's still done person to person. So going out there and engaging with the public on what their freedoms was, was very empowering. And then to have all these cannabis tools around us available to show them, to sell to them, to take along, Thank you for joining us.

1:01:28Etienne FontanAnd shout out to the RockMed people because they made so much of a difference out on the road. No matter what city or state we were in, RockMed people would show up and they fucking saved so many lives. It was very common for people to do way too much of something that they didn't know what it was. And it wasn't cannabis. Okay, that's the one thing rock med people thought.

1:01:52Etienne FontanWe don't have to worry about you guys. It's all the other shit we have to worry about, right? Which was the problem, because people thought they could handle LSD at a rock and roll concert on their first experience. And we all know that they should be in nature, not there. And your body and mind couldn't handle that stuff. And those rock med folk were the people who talked them down, somehow got them into a tent, got them laid down, And then got them calmed down.

1:02:19Etienne FontanAnd let me tell you, that's a special gift, people. Because if you've ever been around people freaking out, that's fucking hard shit to deal with. And they dealt with it on a nightly basis. And it was usually alcohol related. And you know how violent that gets. They also had to do nonviolent, you know, descaling of situations, which was quite an art and quite deaf to watch go down in the moment.

1:02:45Etienne FontanAnd if you've ever seen it, you'd understand the respect you should have for those folk.

1:02:50SpeakerYeah. Sorry, Colin. Oh, sorry, Colin.

1:02:55Collin PalmerNo, go talk, talk, talk.

1:02:57SpeakerI've been a part of Rock Med since, shit, 90, no, 80.

1:03:05SpeakerMaybe 89, I feel like. I started working in Rock Med my very first show because I got lost and then I sort of found them. So that was in 86. So in 1986, I started to get to know the Rock Med folks and always checking in, always put in time, put in a tremendous amount of time there.

1:03:26DrIt was your first show.

1:03:28SpeakerIt was always a good place to stash. My first show was Alpine Valley, 1986. Yeah, I was there.

1:03:36DrThose were great shows.

1:03:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhich is also another sweet story, but it has no respective stories, and that doesn't make sense.

1:03:43SpeakerAnd because I had lost all of my friends at that show, I was like, whoa, here's this amazing place. There was people who had like bubble guns and all different kinds. They had nice music going on in there. That was a little bit. They had little ice water and they would like draw you in like, hi, everybody. They had fairy wings on. How are you guys?

1:04:04DrThat was Trouble Ahead, Jerry in Red. He was wearing a red shirt that night.

1:04:07SpeakerOh, yeah.

1:04:08Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd this was before Common Ground and the Twelve Tribes sucked you into their bus as well.

1:04:13SpeakerNot really. Yeah.

1:04:15Collin PalmerI've been on the 12 tribes bus myself. I was like, I got to get off.

1:04:21SpeakerI've been on too many times and had arguments with Joseph.

1:04:24DrMaybe we should explain to the audience what the 12 tribes bus is, right? Just so everyone is aware to stay off that bus. Don't take any of those cookies. Stay off that bus.

1:04:40SpeakerI wanted to just say that RockMed turned into White Bird, which turned into pretty much all of the really

1:04:54SpeakerBack end taking care of people, taking care of individuals. And it became like a brilliance. There was papers that were written on it. There was all different kinds of case studies that were done. There was unbelievable data that has been collected. And people could be tripping and we would be able to tell within like a couple of minutes if that exactly what they were on and how much they were on.

1:05:21SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:05:42SpeakerAmazing education was swapped between that, you know, that really turned into now, like if you go to Oregon Country Fair, you can go into the White Bird booth and it has more encoutrements and more safety features than any of the emergency local hospitals. So people are so well taken care of that over time it became this incredible seating. And I really believe that Not only was that a seed into cannabis at the Grateful Dead, but it also became a seed into medicine for doctors to be able to understand overdoses, for small groups like White Bird to be able to educate all over the world in how to deal with homeless people and drug addiction and how to tell what they were on and what kind of drugs that you would give to antidote it.

1:06:37SpeakerSo many things also, you know, so I wanted to big up them as well, ATN. I just, I just love that you were talking about.

1:06:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlso, we took that to the electronic music festival thing at Shambhala, which was like a whole other scale of getting fucked up. Like before it was like heroin. Alcohol, LSD and mushrooms. And honestly, LSD and mushrooms can get like as gnarly as anything. But it's just when you don't know you have GHB in a water glass because they put it in the water glasses and then you have one drink of alcohol, literally you just lose yourself.

1:07:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then it happened all over the place at Shambhala. These people from Alberta would come over. It would be straight party. No one gave a fuck out in the woods. It was utter mayhem. We had people, we had eight people in shackles on a stretcher at one time on a Saturday night. This one night, it was probably one of the pinnacles of like, wow, people.

1:07:39SpeakerWhat's it called? The

1:07:43Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhen you're like mitigating problems. Anyway, the, anyway, so it was, we were trying to bring in harm reduction. Sorry, that's the word I'm looking for. Harm reduction became a thing, you know, and the sanctuary and doing it. But anyway, please call in to what we're thinking.

1:07:58DrWere these people dosed without being known, without, without them knowing about it? It was an accident. It would be an accident.

1:08:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHonestly, it wasn't even someone drugging someone. It was just, Hey we're hanging out in the camp and well this one has GHB in the water bottle and this one is the water bottle oh my god which one uh you don't even know and people literally were just being dumb yeah and then ketamine in the k-hole and it was it was actually and then dubstep it was actually the beginning of dubstep And it was just like, and people in channels were like, this is probably bad for humans.

1:08:37DrIsn't GHB the so-called date rape drug? So if there's a guy who's kind of like preying on some young woman, he might pour that in her drink and then she drinks it and she doesn't know what's going on. So it's kind of used in that capacity. Is that right? It's gamma hydroxybutyrate.

1:08:57BubblemanYou add alcohol to that. It's definitely a central service system depressant. That's what it is.

1:09:01DrBut is that used? I'm just unaware. So is that used like in a recreational way or is that?

1:09:07Collin PalmerIt sometimes is, yeah. You'll find that in like the electronic music scene where people actually don't drink alcohol at all. Like it's because alcohol and staying up late don't mix, right? So there's a lot of that going on from what I understand. And I think it's evolved out of, What I think the original scene for electronic music world was really meant to be built on plur, which is peace, love, unity, and respect.

1:09:32Collin PalmerAnd that ideology evolved out of the Grateful Dead movement. And if you really think about it, all these people that got into this world of music came from that world of psychedelics, came from that world of experimentation. And they just wanted more of it, right? So this allowed them to explore different sounds, different settings and different experiences that were sort of on the same wavelength, if you will, but a little bit more experimental.

1:10:03Collin PalmerAnd I think that's the one thing I've noticed from watching different music scenes and being sort of a part of a mess of it all. Like I grew up in the dead scene and I remember when I was really young on tour, My mentor, Marcus, at the time was running with his shirt off after a guy that was completely naked. I'll never forget it. And he just tackles him.

1:10:23Collin PalmerAnd he's just like, the guy's running up the ramp on the on-ramp on the 95 mark, like up from the, you know, that on-ramp on the spectrum? Right there, he's running up and Marcus just tackles him. And brings them. He's just like freaking out. Mark's super strong guy brings him down. He's like, you need to chill out. And I'll never I'll never forget it. It was my first real experience.

1:10:43Collin PalmerLike, again, young kid, not really understanding what's happening. He's like, Colin, get me some water. Give me this. Do that. We got to kill this guy out. I'm like, what is going on? He's like, this guy has taken something you shouldn't have. He's taking too much of it. We're going to work with him to calm him down. And it gave me a new sense of empathy, honestly, as a young child that I didn't understand.

1:11:04Collin PalmerAnd in chaos, in a chaotic moment, you're up here, not not getting sucked down to the chaos. Right. And being very clear headed and trying to be that guide. And that, you know, again, like what you were saying earlier, Kelly, it really resonated with me because it really shaped myself from there on after into learning about what it is when trauma exists outside of what we understand to be trauma.

1:11:32Collin PalmerAnd that was a really enlightening moment. And I think only that could happen in those settings. Right. And I think that's the unique aspect of it. But You know, the scene is, I think, having individuals like that or, you know, that are willing to come together to help their other brothers and sisters, right, I think is really unique. And that's something that I, yeah, that's amazing. It's something I really cherish.

1:12:01Collin PalmerAnd I think, you know, looking back into the fish world, like I got arrested on law and Merriweather Post Pavilion after I'd sold a bunch of things and I had all this cash on me and they're like, why do you have all this cash? And I was like, I just sold my crafts. I don't know. You know, and they're just like, took my cash. I get arrested, taken for the night, did miss the show.

1:12:22Collin PalmerMy girlfriend went into the show at the time because I told her to go. Don't worry about me. But I remember the camaraderie with everyone being arrested that night. We were all in the cell. And at one point, and I had just taken a hit at LSD right when I got, when I was, you know, just taken. So I was in there and I was talking to this guy.

1:12:43Collin PalmerHe's like, I'm going to write a book. And I could remember all this vividly.

1:12:46DrAnd all of a sudden, I just hear this, ba-bum, ba-bum, Wilson, ba-bum, ba-bum.

1:12:55Collin PalmerAnd then the whole, everyone in all the cells, everyone that was in there, all the kids, we were all doing it together. And we were like, well, son, I realized in that moment that we're all so connected and we are all in the same moment of trauma and the same moment of like, what is about to happen? But the band brought us together in this magical moment.

1:13:19Collin PalmerWe're just going to go through this experience. And I remember having to go to court and doing all the stuff and going to the judge and they found a little bit of herb on me and, you know, they pinned it all into the, you know, on as they do. And I ended up, Thank you for joining us.

1:14:07Collin PalmerI think that's the most special, unique aspect of what those bands have been able to create is an environment for all of us to learn together and have these amazing experiences that we get to talk about, you know, all these years later, those probably 25, 20 years ago, you know. What a story. Wow. You know, and I'll never forget that. But it's it's like that's to me, I'll never forget those two moments because it was it they're sort of the same moment, but in a different far removed from each other, you know, and it was about the scene and how they support one another and how our scenes are are really here to proliferate the ideas you have.

1:14:52Collin PalmerIn general, you know, young and old, you know.

1:14:56Etienne FontanTaught you to reshift, right? How to downshift in the situation, right? You were going this rate and all of a sudden you had to go pop into neutral and go into reverse, right? And those are amazing journeys, as well as you said, very profound teaching moments. Yeah, that's special there, Colin. Yeah, to have that moment where you're all are in jail singing together. Yeah, that's the sort of shit we have in the military.

1:15:25Etienne FontanThat's camaraderie life building shit, man. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't know.

1:15:32Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's just the good old days being in the cell.

1:15:34DrIf those were the very weathered 99 shows and 98 shows, we were there.

1:15:40Collin Palmer98. That was the 98 show I got. Yeah.

1:15:45DrAt 98, didn't they do the Mike's Sweet Emotion? Yeah, they played Sweet Emotion that night, right, by Aerosmith?

1:15:54Collin PalmerYep, they did it.

1:15:56SpeakerYeah, you know, I actually have this booklet right here. I called it A Guide to the Tripper's Cosmos. And I had started writing this in the 80s. And it is like an entire, it's funny, Josh was like, I think I even know where that thing is. And it became a booklet that I wrote for all different types of festivals sort of all over the place. And then they took it and it was all based off of RockMed.

1:16:26SpeakerAnd it's funny because it's like the stuff we were talking about, subjectivity, compassion, assessment, understanding fear, responsibility. There was also a- There's like an overview here. It says safety first, ground and rapport, problem solved, check it out, debrief. A right to space, a right to feel safe, a right to self-love, a right to our own experience, a right to an issue, communications, I mean, this stuff was groundbreaking and it really... And it's copied on a piece of paper.

1:17:09Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt should be online. This is my first Grateful Dead shirt. One of my first Dead shirts from Cal Expo 1992.

1:17:19SpeakerAnd this has been turned into, though, this little booklet was turned into so much of... What is now on the ground for, I took all of this knowledge and then I took it to Haiti I took it to Indonesia. So right after the Haiti earthquake, we set up the most successful clinic, birthing clinic there. And it was all based off of a lot of these ideologies and understanding where to put people, where and what people you want in certain positions, what roles that you're searching out, what you need.

1:17:58SpeakerAnd you're dealing with the same thing, people that are in trauma, people that are not understanding themselves. And it's interesting, so many times when you're dealing with people heavy on drugs, language doesn't work. And I realize language doesn't work either when you're in Haiti and you don't speak Creole. So all of these things then we're able to Create super successful organizations. Then we went and taught WHO.

1:18:26SpeakerSo WHO got huge education from us and Doctors Without Borders as well. And all of this was spawned from the Grateful Dead shows.

1:18:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlso, one of the biggest things we did, which I think was innovative, which was we created birth buckets for disasters. And so we were in Haiti about three weeks after the earthquake, and we were in Jacmel in the south, and it was completely devastated and smelled like dead human bodies. And there was funerals every single night going down the road. And we created birth buckets where we could hand a woman, a family a bucket.

1:19:03Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey could open up the bucket and have everything they needed to have a baby on the ground in rubble. And it was unbelievably successful. We did it also in Sumatra after the earthquake and tsunami, which Kelly was responding to as well. I think it was really powerful. And we bought all the materials for those buckets in town. It didn't come from somewhere. And also the disaster relief didn't create more garbage, which was so crazy when you go to disaster relief.

1:19:34Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAll of a sudden there's a secondary disaster and it's all the relief stuff. All the relief stuff just turns into garbage. All the water bottles, all the... The hospital had to throw... We've got a lot of great people here. We've got a lot of great people here. We've got a lot of great people here. We've got a lot of great people here.

1:20:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you for joining us.

1:20:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineFractals into life and all of a sudden you're at an international disaster, one of the worst in the world, and you're using like lot tech to like navigate getting medicine. All of a sudden we're getting a pallet of medicine that's just sitting there and all it took was just go get it. You know what I mean?

1:20:42SpeakerWell, it took a lot. You got to trade all kinds of things and you got to find out what is it that buddy wants. If you want to get that pallet of seizure medication, nobody else is going to be able to get it. And you know that It's going to go into the black market. So, so true. You really do use lot tech.

1:20:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe built a 44-foot geodesic dome. And in four months, 800 babies, Haitian babies, were born in the dome, totally natural. Kelly did thousands of prenatals. And we went, and Kelly and I both went, but it was her thing, really. I support her. She's amazing. Everyone look at Kelly.

1:21:18SpeakerNo, no, it's the people. I'm just saying, no, honestly. With the people on the ground, it's... There's no heroes here.

1:21:25Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm not saying heroes. I'm saying there's a difference between someone who's really doing something special and that's what Kelly does and I appreciate that. But yeah, being able to see someone walk into a refugee camp, which is honestly the craziest place you ever go, and then just help everyone and give them hope and love and next thing you know, it's like, wow, thank you. Where'd that come from?

1:21:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo, you know, the love... Token that we hold here at Hash Church and in this community is also, also part of it. This Hash Church is a bit like the lot almost, you know, and here we are like coming up with new stuff together and we love and appreciate you all so much.

1:22:11SpeakerYou know, us and Marcus, we talk a lot about, you know, things need to be in-house. You know, you want to sort of take care of, I know we talk about that a lot on past church. You just sort of want to take care of things on your own if you need to. And if there's ever something going down, if you can take care of it without involving authorities, you know, without involving somebody that's going to really turn it around to something that, you know, isn't so safe.

1:22:39SpeakerI feel like the cannabis culture has really taught us that is sort of how to assess a situation. How to sort of chill out and make sure that you can buy yourself a little bit more time. I always feel like if you relax in the most emergency situation and that's, oh, cannabis is so amazing for that. If you're able to just relax into it, literally the clock stops.

1:23:04SpeakerBut if you're not relaxed, then the clock speeds up. And it's amazing in an emergency situation when you've got like a lot, a lot of big emergency. That one minute can seem like 20 minutes, but if you have somebody in there that's not calm and assessing the situation, then that one minute can be eaten up in 10 seconds. So I really feel like plant medicine, cannabis, this culture has taught us really about how to be adaptable, take care of ourselves, take care of our own community whenever we can.

1:23:39SpeakerAnd I'm really thankful for that. I think being in the underground cannabis realm also has helped with that on how do you deal with emergencies or how do you deal with ripoffs or how do you deal with so many things that we've all had and seen in coming from an illegal market, an illicit market into a legal market. And I do see a lot of the people that did well then Are doing well now just simply because they're adaptable, not because they had skills that they didn't need to relearn or something.

1:24:17Collin PalmerLove you, Colin.

1:24:19SpeakerThanks for coming on.

1:24:20Collin PalmerYou guys too. Yeah, I have to go take my son out, but this conversation has been magical and I love it. I wish I had more time today. But yeah, I think, you know, the one thing I think it is really resonates with me here is that our, our cannabis community is directly influenced by countercultures around us, whether it's electronic music, or the jam band culture, or, you know, jazz, whatever, whatever that bucket may be, they all, to me, blend together.

1:24:49Collin PalmerTogether into culture. And I think that's really unique because we've we've all learned so much from it. And we take that those learnings, as you say, into into our the future. And that's that's all we can really do. You know, you should publish that book like that's it's probably invaluable information that's probably still valid today. You know, and you've done the groundwork and you've lived it. And maybe there's more to add.

1:25:18SpeakerWell, I ended up giving it away. So it was it was printed out. And there was a time that I used to during Oregon Country Fair, I used to run the fair. So the very fair central is the is the is the is the top and to run it sort of it. So I created a lot of paperwork. For people, and this is one of the things that I helped create.

1:25:46SpeakerSo it's been passed out and it's been copied and people have used it as part of their, because I've seen it. I've seen it even on Base Coast has a lot of the same language and Shambhala has a lot of the same language. So I just sort of gave it out.

1:26:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt melted into Burning Man and all that. The original Burning Man... Groups all came to Country Fair to learn radio, dispatch,

1:26:14SpeakerAll of this stuff.

1:26:18Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineObviously, they took everything to another level. And Burning Man is like its own entity by now, of course. But it didn't start that way. You know, there was like this wild, crazy thing out in the desert. And half of our family went to it and then came back.

1:26:34SpeakerYeah, there was always about eight people from Burning Man who sort of ran the event. There had security. Who would come and we would do trade passes way back in the day. And they would do shadow work with us and sit behind us on the radios or go out and deal with incidences. We had sort of like a special ops team. And now that special ops team is really used in a lot of festivals because they know the groundwork.

1:27:02SpeakerThey know how to get there way faster. But this was all... Also to prove to the authorities and to prove to the communities that you were doing this in like, hey, we got it. We have a better system. Here's our program. We have a better system. We would like for you all to wait at the gates and we're going to call you if we need you. So a lot of times when These emergency groups made a presence either in dead shows or at festivals or rainbow gatherings.

1:27:36SpeakerThere was a really heavy presence of like, this is how we're going to run our whole entire system of emergency response. And now you all are going to integrate with us We are not going to integrate with you.

1:27:50Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd it really... It always... When the authorities come into your emergency city, it just changes everything.

1:27:58SpeakerYeah, of course. And so... You don't really want them to come in because they're going to be the guys that eat up the time. They make the one minute, 10 seconds. Whereas you've got the professionals with the fairy wings on and they come in, they're like, Hey, how's everybody doing here? How's it going? And then bam, bam, we've got it all totally dialed and they're feeling really loved and they're feeling respected.

1:28:23SpeakerAnd then you can take a really terrible situation and make it good. And I feel like, you know, these sort of, I'm probably one of a hundred different people who wrote these that were all sort of part of that movement that then, you know, it was part of the free movement. It wasn't about, oh, publish it, put your name on it. It was about make as many fucking copies as you could with the cash that you had, you know, at some point.

1:28:54SpeakerKelly Cervantes, Chief Executive Officer, ATN, ATN, ATN, ATN, ATN,

1:29:16Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineLike that's just the way it is. Like the Snodgrass tradition or Grateful Dead tradition. And in a lot of ways, we try and embody with Dragonfly Red Medicine that tradition as well, which is, and Bob Snodgrass himself explained this to me, like the bell curve of consciousness, which is, If we're all keeping everything to ourselves, like our knowledge is just, it levels off. We don't get to rise up with our knowledge, but as soon as we start sharing everything, then as a community, we all just rise in our knowledge and we elevate in everything that we know.

1:29:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo we all become better. So some knowledge is supposed to be free. We're supposed to bring each other up to become better. And then within that, there's a craft and an art, which you make money from or a product. That's just a thought process.

1:30:04Etienne FontanI like it.

1:30:06BubblemanI like it. I gotta go. Hey, thanks, Colin. Enjoy your time with your son.

1:30:13Collin PalmerSee you next week. Peace, y'all.

1:30:15Etienne FontanTalk to you soon. Absolutely. We will see you next week.

1:30:18BubblemanGot some good concept shows in the queue. Going to do another potential sports medicine one here, possibly about UFC. Got all these different UFC fighters. And I guess Puffco recently announced that they've done a collaboration with the UFC, which is crazy. They just released that on their Instagram a couple days ago or a week ago or so. So kind of. Trying to work on that and got a couple other ideas in the queue.

1:30:45BubblemanBut in the meantime, you know, linking up every Sunday with you guys. And Todd, this is an almost a uniquely refreshing, different kind of conversation. I'm sure it's going to lead into cannabis and hash extraction, as it always does. But yeah, it's not always it's not every day that the Grateful Dead do a 60th anniversary show. I mean, that's so absolutely bonkers that You just got to celebrate it.

1:31:10BubblemanAnd for those that get to go and enjoy it, awesome. I'm inspired because I refuse to be envious. I'd rather be inspired. It's the same energy, but with more of a positive loop in there. So good for you. Have fun. I watched a little bit of the clips of Sturgill Simpson ripping it up and Billy Strings and a few others that were just... Yeah, it made me happy.

1:31:35BubblemanIt made me happy that, you know, for music now, it seems that because we get so few, I mean, I saw Warren Haynes with Government Mule not too long ago. And otherwise, it's like reggae shows. We get some good reggae shows. All the Marley Brothers came out and did a nice outdoor concert. But strangely enough, we don't get the music that we once used to get. It seems like Vancouver would be a super music-centric place where you would have Thank you so much.

1:32:19BubblemanJust don't seem to want to come to Vancouver anymore. I don't know if we have bad promoters or if we've, what's gone on, but something has definitely gone on. What do you got there?

1:32:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou're getting turned around at the border. It's a big problem with bands. And I know a bunch of promoters and they'd say it's, You get the whole band and you come over and oh, fuck, there's one of them, two of them can't come over. It's just, it's so annoying, the Canadian-American border. It's like, people can travel all over the world, but they can't go to Canada. Or, like Marcus, you go, what country, you can go anywhere.

1:32:59BubblemanYeah, it's not America. My lawyer only told me Japan was also not a good idea with like any type of cannabis sort of just because they're super chill. They're not going to like harass you. They'll just literally as once you fly into the country, they'll just turn you around and send you back to another back to your country. So that's what that's what John Conroy told me when I first got um my charges back in 98 or 99 whenever the charges actually came through i am waiting this month this is my month that i that i hope to hear from homeland security or whoever's in charge of uh the waivers that i get my waiver i paid all my money i waited all my time i produced all my documents i went through i jumped through every hoop including the ones they set on fire and uh i'm hoping Thank you so much for joining us.

1:34:10BubblemanLike down in the in the US. So spending time with them going and making hash in each of those markets that were made by my hands is important. I want to do that. And just yeah, just appreciating appreciating America after 30 years. You know, and being able to just like go down to Washington and like visit Logan or go down to Oregon and go visit like Marcel Braun or go down to fucking California and visit ATN, fucking head over to Vermont, visit Dr. Mark.

1:34:44BubblemanLike these are all things I need to do. Like you don't understand. And yes, Bubble Man in Michigan, Michigan mids, but we won't be puffing on mids while I'm there. I hate to tell you. Yes. Well, all the administrations are whack, Andrew. So let's just not focus on that. I just got to, I'm going to, I'm not going to do any kind of crimes. I'm not going to break any rules.

1:35:08BubblemanI'm not going to overstay my welcome. I have no interest in moving there. I want to just visit. And so hopefully, hopefully that'll be, that'll be allowed.

1:35:21Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're hopeful for you. We're hopeful for you big time and we want to maybe just drive you down there so we can like just be a part of the fun time, you know. Trust me.

1:35:31BubblemanWell, Alison wanted me to go down so bad. She was like, I'm taking you to the, we're going together. And I was like, okay, so this is how the whole waiver thing started. All of a sudden you need a bus. Alison, bring me, she brings me to the airport. We go to get on the plane and I get stopped at customs and she's like, oh my God.

1:35:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineShe's waiting.

1:35:50BubblemanAnd afterwards, she was like, OK, we got you got to get a we got to get a waiver. Then we got to figure this out. So she really was my big push. She she will also probably be in that car if we make that happen, because she's like, when you go to America, I am going to be there. And it was so close. It was.

1:36:07Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI hope you're playing Neil Diamond when you go over the border. Just a killer. Neil Diamond. We're coming to America. You know what I mean? You got to go for that. Yeah.

1:36:19BubblemanDude, they're almost 30 years. So I'm very excited to be able to go down there. And I hope I'm allowed. And I certainly, yeah, I think it would be completely insane. I actually have a friend, John, who filmed a video with me 10 years ago in Jamaica. And it did well on my channel. It's got over 300,000 views. He did a good job editing it and sort of telling the story.

1:36:48BubblemanAnd he just hit me up randomly, like last week. I hadn't talked to this guy in like almost 10 years. I was just like, hey, what's up? He's like, I'm going to be in Seattle. I was thinking of coming up to Vancouver. What's going on? And then he got on the call with me and we had a little kind of little interview because he's like, oh, I just want to catch up with you and find out where you're at.

1:37:06BubblemanSo then he was like, OK, time out. You're going to go to the US for the first time in almost 30 years. He's like, bro, that's the story. Like, we got to film that. We got to make a little story of you And I was like, well, then come on. The fact that he's gonna be here in August, I'm almost feeling this neat sort of thing where it's like, he's gonna get here and I'm literally gonna acquire my waiver.

1:37:31BubblemanAnd then it'll be like, shit, now we can film Film part of the story here. Go do a border run and film that and go over for the first time where he films that. And then that'll be the opening to basically filming all these other scenes and all these other states that we go and visit. So I'm pretty stoked. And the likeliness of Logan being first is very high because, well, he's just over the border.

1:37:57Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineRight in Washington. God, Debbie and mothership.

1:38:00BubblemanRight in, right in, exactly. Yeah, well, we'll stop by.

1:38:03SpeakerBellingham is only three hours from me too, so.

1:38:05BubblemanOkay, Bellingham is about 50 minutes, maybe 45 from me.

1:38:11SpeakerOh. Yeah.

1:38:13BubblemanYeah, Marble Slinger and D-Rack. Funny enough, D-Rack literally just texted me because we're planning a nice glass church here in the near future. And shout out to Contrabasso's family, RIP to him, glassblower. Very sad to hear that. Yeah, never a good thing. But I guess as we get older... Geez, so many ATN, so many. I feel like ATN doesn't even make posts anymore. It's just to mention a fallen soldier, fallen friend, a fallen colleague.

1:38:47BubblemanAnd so shout out to Richard Lee as well. Thank goodness.

1:38:52Etienne FontanYeah, it's been a brutal week between Contrabasso. I was fortunate I have one of his pieces. I have a rainbow piece that actually changes color. I've used it on Hash Church in the past. Epic. It's an epic piece. Yeah, because there's... People know that he did a few pieces, but they were amazingly functional pieces. And if you've hit one, you understand why. And yeah, I asked him to make a piece for me and he didn't bat an eye.

1:39:24Etienne FontanAnd made it happen. So, yeah, the guy was quite the artist and quite respected also among the glassblowers. And you have to be pretty special to be respected by the glassblowers. That's not easy to do. You know, especially in this day and age, there's a whole ethical code and there's a whole series of it. But, yeah. Yeah, the man's function was on point and it was something special.

1:39:56Etienne FontanAnd then, yeah, this week we lost a good friend, Richard Lee, who... When I got my divorce, when I left my wife, when I first came to the Bay Area back in 99 with literally just the clothes on my back, Richard's like... I just got this restaurant that I'm going to turn into a coffee shop and it's been abandoned for a year and a half. So it's a shitty job, but I'll pay you cash and I'll give you weed.

1:40:30Etienne FontanAnd I did. And that would then become the Bulldog. The coffee shop. And oh, man, let me tell you, it was it was ugly, but it needed to be done. And then next thing we did was we hermetically sealed the basement and turned it into a grove because Richard's chair bound for those who weren't aware. And of course, everything in old school, oldster dam was upstairs or downstairs.

1:41:01Etienne FontanSo I, with the legs at times, and so we set up the grows, which were basically, most people will consider evil, the old oldster dam hydroponic grows, which were 2000 watt HPSs with a four by eight table and a hundred gallon reservoirs. And just churning out, you know, White Widow and various other genetics at 3,500 parts per million, pulling down three pounds of light sort of shit, just going to town.

1:41:36Etienne FontanAnd the reason why we were overgrowing is because back then the price of cannabis was too high. Right. It was still four to six thousand a pound back in the day. So we were growing it so we could sell it to ourselves or the dispensaries cheaper and bring the prices down. And over time, that actually worked. And I worked in Richard's Grows, which was along with, you know, Oakstradam and stuff.

1:42:08Etienne FontanWorked for years, you know, just 10. He named his grow rooms Tom, Dick, and Harry after the Liberty Tunnels in The Great Escape. So, you know, we're like, oh, we got to change out Tom today. Okay, you know, we got to flip Dick. Okay, shit. All right. Harry's got to be, you know, relayed and going to change the reservoirs out. Okay, all right. You know, pumping out the Texas style clones because he was all about skunk number one.

1:42:35Etienne FontanThat was his favorite genetic. So, you know, he pumped that out. And then, you know, shout out to my boy, Andrew, who had the hydroponic store right next door. So we would be below them, you know, growing the cannabis, go upstairs, get the nutrients, go right back down, you know, whatever you needed to have done. So it was... Yeah, it was a special time. And then he started, you know, Oaksterdam.

1:43:06Etienne FontanAnd I was fortunate to teach at Oaksterdam from like 08 to 2010, 2011.

1:43:16Etienne FontanAnd that to me was very special. As I taught acquisitions, I taught you how to take your cannabis to me. It was, you know, pretty vanilla shit, you know, go outside, check your blinkers, you know, check your headlights, you know, all the things to make sure that, you know, lock it in the safe in the back of your trunk or in a cooler in the back of your trunk, you know.

1:43:39Etienne FontanTeaching people how to navigate then the gray area in between legalization and legalization. And that's what Jeff Jones and Dale Sky Jones would carry on. Unfortunately, Oakstradam got raided in 2011. And many of us went out and protested and yelled and watched, yeah, Oaksterdam literally be destroyed by the feds because it was also the first education point where Richard decided, you know, we need to educate. We need to go past just ourselves and educate.

1:44:17Etienne FontanSo he literally set up a school. Paul, Oakstradam University. It was pretty vanilla, you know, originally, you know, cannabis education, but it was teaching you about your rights, what your freedoms were, you know, what you could expect if you get arrested, you know, all the the real things that came along with it. And I would spend my, I had the class right before lunch, right? So I would spend that class teaching and then after I would stand next to the podium and then I would talk to the students for literally the entire lunch program.

1:44:54Etienne FontanBecause I ran a dispensary and most of them never had access to talk to somebody who did this for real. And most of these people wanted to do it for real in the future. And so I was happy to, you know, answer any and all questions because again, It's all done, right? Person to person, human to human. And I'm very fortunate that today's some of those people like Grant Palmer is running, you know, a dispensary and multiple dispensaries in Santa Cruz.

1:45:25Etienne FontanAnd other of my students who I taught along the way are running dispensaries around the country. So I'm very proud to have been just a small part of, you know, What that became and Dale and Jeff kept it going after it was raided and after Rich stepped away because Rich was, you know, he put his money and time into Prop 19, which is the original legalization law in the United States that failed in California by just a few points.

1:45:59Etienne FontanTo the point where Colorado and Oregon were like, well, if California can just about get it, well, then we can do an initiative and get it. And, you know, Richard Lee sparked a change in history that, yeah, inspired. I think Dale told me they taught over 100,000 people through the classes. At Oakster Dam, which means there's 100,000 people who got educated about what to do and contributed or are part of, you know, systems, etc.

1:46:38Etienne FontanSo, you know, it's nothing's perfect. It's a step in the direction. It's trying to fill a void in a time which we never thought would ever exist. And so why not, since we were kind of the catalysts for the change, why shouldn't we teach and educate others was, um, Richard's legacy, but he was, you know, he grew it, he sold it, he smoked it, he shared it, and he loved it with his whole being.

1:47:16Etienne FontanAnd he started off with a legal hemp store,

1:47:25Etienne FontanBack in Houston, Texas, back in the early 90s, back when hemp was really first starting out, he put out, not only did he start with a hemp store selling hemp products, he would put out a newspaper, which was pretty ballsy and necessarily, again, not cheap and easy to do. And he started sending it out back in the day pre-internet to, you know, the activists and you could get on his mailing list.

1:47:53Etienne FontanAnd yeah, the legal marijuana hemp store in Houston, Texas is a real part of, you know, American history in the span of that because he got tired of what was happening in Texas and decided to finally move to California. Richard Head, originally he was a rock and roll guy. He worked for Aerosmith in lights and he fell and it broke his back. And that's how he ended up paralyzed.

1:48:25Etienne FontanAnd he lived on his feet in his chair than most people I know who have legs. That makes any sense. He stood for many, he stood for all. And he never backed down from anything. um, um,

1:48:47Etienne FontanWe used to get together at night and all the time. And we used to play Trivial Pursuit and other board games. And people thought, you know, oh, what are these old elders in the cannabis, you know, what must they be plotting, et cetera, et cetera. And all we were doing is sitting up there, you know, eating snacks, you know, eating pizza and getting high and playing fucking board games together.

1:49:12Etienne FontanBecause we were, we're all friends. We all, We all respected each other and what we did. It was fucking hard work, risking our freedoms every day. And, you know, we didn't want to put ourselves in places where we could get arrested or, you know, lose our opportunity that we were using our privilege to achieve.

1:49:38Etienne FontanYou know, my friends were my inspiration. You know, Jack, Dennis, Dr. Todd, you know, Debbie, all of us, you know, we all lived on an edge and we found Jeff Jones and others that came along and that would pick up those torches. And we'd come along and really catalyst change. Jeff would go on to the Supreme Court, unfortunately would lose, but we gave it the fucking try.

1:50:07Etienne FontanYou know, my friends didn't give up. They took it on the chin many times. Angel Rach went to Supreme Court, lost. You know, sometimes you have to, you know, take it on the chin because activism is hard. It's not easy. You lose people along the way, but you also gain amazing experiences and people along the way. And Richard was one of those fucking guys who, you know, just not only lived it, embodied it just with every ounce of his being.

1:50:43Etienne FontanHe put his money where his mouth was. He put his heart and his soul into everything possible. And all he did was, you know, teach others how to do it. And they did. And they took it to all the ends of the earth and are utilizing what they learn and are teaching others. And that... This is a fucking beautiful legacy that, you know, you never know what you leave in this world.

1:51:15Etienne FontanBut, you know, taking it on the chin, you know, getting busted by the feds, they destroyed Amsterdam. He had to let all that go and walk away from all that. Pardon me, roll away from all that, unfortunately. And yeah, he lived quietly back in Texas. His mother is absolute inspiration of a woman who has been very much a Republican in Texas, but speaks truly and profoundly for cannabis and hemp and has for decades.

1:51:47Etienne FontanAnd she took her son's education and really took the fire to Texas. And if you're in Texas, you know of her and she's fucking sane as far as we're concerned. My heart goes out to her. Because you shouldn't have to bury your kid. And I'm sorry we lost Richard because we lost him. Unfortunately, really after, you know, Oaks or Damn got raided, it destroyed his soul. And the government's like that.

1:52:17Etienne FontanAnd unfortunately, the battles we fight don't always have wins. And the battlefield, unfortunately, is littered with a lot of casualties. And Richard's one of those good men. Love you.

1:52:34BubblemanWell, thanks for sharing it, yeah. Richard is one of the rare ones that I never really had interactions with. I never had any interactions with Richard really at all. And so, yeah, my heart goes out to his family and all the people he's touched. And yeah, it's incredible to hear the stories of all the things you guys did back in the day, man. It's... It's pretty inspirational for sure.

1:53:00BubblemanI'll say that much. Wanted to welcome Brian from Best Friend Farms who just popped in over on the East Coast.

1:53:10SpeakerHey, hey.

1:53:12BubblemanDude, I saw you do like a little garden tour recently. Like you got to take us on that garden tour, man. Like videos like that are primo. Like primo. You had like you were walking. I can't remember. I saw you had personal plants that were all like in sacred geometry, like big monster plants with companion plants and looked fucking awesome, dude.

1:53:35SpeakerThank you, man. Kind of went bonkers this year. It's like a lot of my time is just into the gardens. Cannabis definitely first, but like equally shared with vegetables and the flowers and the polyculture, just kind of loving it, digging in and it's fun to work. But I'll try to get techie and some techie help a little, you know, something with a phone or something where I can cruise some gardens.

1:54:02BubblemanYeah, exactly. All you got to do is really just you could do a garden tour on your phone and then send me the video or just share it on here. I did a garden tour yesterday, but it wasn't a cannabis garden. It was in my local village. And I saw a woman had posted a picture of a deer, which is very rare for Lions Bay for us to have deer.

1:54:22BubblemanWe have bears and coyotes and cougars and lynx and All sorts of different things, but we don't, you don't see deer very often. So she had a deer and out of the corner, I could see she had these beautiful pink hydrangeas. And so I was like, oh, and then people on the post were like, oh, we have some of your hydrangeas still. They're doing so well in our garden.

1:54:42BubblemanSo I have a fairly rare hydrangea behind my house, this trippy blue one, actually. I think I could possibly show it because I think I have a picture of it. Anyway, I offered it to her. I said, would you, you know, maybe like to trade hydrangeas? This is the one that I offered her. I had been told that it was a fairly rare one, a mountain hydrangea.

1:55:02BubblemanSo that's it right there in my backyard. And... She's like, Oh, I might have it already. But you know, come on by bring some buckets. I'm like some buckets. What is this woman talking about? Bring some buckets. Anyway, this was her, like a small part of her garden with these hydrangeas. Like unbelievable colors of flowers that she, that she had. This is the bucket full that she gave me.

1:55:34BubblemanShe gave me about 30 clippings, which at the end of hash church and showed me also, she was such a cool woman. She's been doing, she's like 25 years. I've been building my hydrangea garden. I spent four hours a day in my garden. She had this big monkey puzzle tree that was super trippy. I was just like, I love meeting people like this, all from just an online experience of like, hey, you want to trade hydrangea cuts?

1:55:58BubblemanAnd she's like, oh, yeah, you just do this and then cut the flower off. She's like, when you cut the flower off, take the flower and put it next to the stump of the plant that you've planted so that you know what color it'll be. It'll help you when you plan your color. And I'm like, oh, my God, this woman's awesome. I just love the comfort she had.

1:56:16BubblemanShe had been cutting. She must have had like 50 hydrangeas in all honesty. So, you know, it's just kind of like, and I've also been getting very much into my garden in the last little while, taking care of my acre, preparing it really more than anything, cutting out hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of bags of green waste and trees and stumps and fucking branches and other plants that need to be pulled.

1:56:42BubblemanThank you so much for joining us today.

1:57:04BubblemanAnd that's it. Thank you so much for watching.

1:57:19BubblemanBranch from something, but I find it absolutely meditative. And I'm actually looking forward to the end of Hash Church today because I'm going to go plant all 30 of those hydrangeas on this acre property that I have. And you'll be able to see them later, Logan.

1:57:38SpeakerAwesome.

1:57:40BubblemanLooking forward to it. Yeah, Logan's going to make a little trip here today and we're going to spend a few days together. I'm looking really forward to it. Just playing around, man, and making some hash. I wish I had more product here at my own house. I probably could still organize that, but I think we're going to end up going and visiting a buddy of mine out in the interior in between the group that we're already going to see who has apparently, you know, has a lot of sift for us to play with.

1:58:07BubblemanSo we'll be able to get all the things going. Our hands, our screens, our machines.

1:58:14SpeakerStoked for it. I'm stoked to get my hands on some SIFT.

1:58:18BubblemanDude, we'll pay homage to Skunk Man Sam. That's what we'll do. Every time I static SIFT, I feel like I'm paying homage to Skunk Man Sam. I will never... You know, be able to downplay the level of excitement I had when he just decided on a whim with no conversation whatsoever to just show me that process. Like that day to me will go down in history as one of the trippiest days of my life, going into the secret room in his apartment that I'd never seen into before because he doesn't let anyone go in that room.

1:58:50BubblemanLiterally nobody. I'm in this room and I'm like, holy shit, this is it. We're doing it. The screens are coming out. We're going to fucking, I just couldn't believe it. It blew my mind so bad. Now that it's just such standard knowledge, I don't think people really understand what a secret it was, like how crazy of a secret it was. And more importantly, it kind of showed that When Sam shared everything, everything moved very quickly.

1:59:19BubblemanAnd so many people took and took and took and took and took from Sam and monetized Sam that for whatever reason, when it came to the sift, it's not like he was, you know, Thank you for joining us.

1:59:49BubblemanAll of these people are going to be part of it. And I think that's what we're going to see. And I think that's what we're going to see. And I think that's what we're going to see.

2:00:11BubblemanYou know, that was 30-something years before the community figured it out. And the only reason they figured it out was really because of the sharing that was happening. You know, if I had not shared any of that information that I was learning, which was the carding process, and then D420K, who wanted the Skunk Man Sam method so badly, he was like, dude, you got to tell me what it is.

2:00:35BubblemanLike, come on. I'm like, dude, I can't. I promised Sam. It's honor, right? Like I honor Sam. I'm not going to like dishonor him by doing something he asked me not to do. And it was, you know, D420K was like, oh, you know, the cards, I'm buying these big iTunes cards. And that turned into, hey, I swear to God, there's like static is sticking to the card.

2:00:56BubblemanAnd he made videos of that. And that was only after that. That Tan Hat or Mies or both of them started posting. So I truly believe D420K was a very important component from learning little things from me To get to tan, to get to me's, to get blown out and to become a thing. Because D was 100% the first person that called me up and said, he said, bro, there's heads sticking to one side of this iTunes card.

2:01:28BubblemanBecause instead of using like a normal size business card, he was buying those fucking huge, the plastic backings that the card came on. And he was using that. And as he was using that, he was noticing that contaminant would stick to one side and heads would stick to the other. Now it was like he was making like, you know, a quarter gram an hour with this method, but it sparked.

2:01:52BubblemanI'd love to get both of Tan and me on here to talk about this history because it would be great to have a place because I know the Sam history. I know that he learned accidentally in Africa while this guy was grinding weed over a screen. He wasn't even Thank you for joining us today.

2:02:31BubblemanYou know, and I think Sambo Creek Filtration will break through. I don't know if they have yet, but I feel like at least in Morocco, maybe they have, where they can make the machine what you want it to be, which is the machine to allow you to create different concentrations and purities of glandular trichome heads. It's not necessarily only about making pure 99.9% heads, although for you and me, it certainly is.

2:02:57BubblemanBut you know, also, like for me, one of the things I look at the machine is, okay, Say in there's markets where the sift isn't pure enough and when they press it, it doesn't make a good hash. So then they mix oil in. Well, I wouldn't want to mix oil in. That's going to affect my margins. It's going to change the whole product. What if I took that sift and I cleaned some of it?

2:03:18BubblemanSo that was my oil that I'm now putting back into the hash. And so the machine can also do that, which I think is a really cool option. I saw Charles post the other day, do you think ice wax is dead? I was like, I don't think so personally. And the reason I think that, and I'd love to open this up for discussion with you, Logan, is that Water hash still gets out 90 to 95 plus percent of the heads that are present in the material.

2:03:45BubblemanIt does it the most efficiently and it does it the quickest. My worry and problem with dry sifting is I love the machine for cleaning, But the purity of dry sift, we've already talked about it. If you're pulling a 20% purity out of your dry sift, say you're getting a, sorry, 20% return, not purity, not to confuse people. When I talk about purity, I'm talking about the percentage of glandular trichome heads in the material.

2:04:12BubblemanSo if it was 10 grams and we had one gram of heads, that would be a 10% purity. We know that when we static clean or bubble hash, we end up with a 98 to 99% purity. So when we make dry sift and we get a 20% return and it looks like this, we know in reality that's about a two to 3% return of heads Thank you so much for joining us.

2:04:57BubblemanMethods when the harder you wash or the harder you bounce or mix the material, the more contamination you create. Have you figured out a way to efficiently extract trichome heads manually and dry and still get 90 plus percent of heads out? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

2:05:18SpeakerOh, yeah. So like running and running and running. We tumble pretty aggressively and we initially extract with a 60 mesh screen, which is about 250 microns. Yeah, it's huge. So yes, exactly. So our powder that comes out is just dark green. Green powder, yeah. Yeah, the keef, the keef that comes out, just green powder. And then we process that through secondary sieves, and then that goes through the plasma, and then that hits the ATS.

2:05:46SpeakerAnd then after that, we actually end up having 98, 99% purity of trichome heads by mass.

2:05:54BubblemanRight. And you still feel like you get like when you have you tested your material afterwards in a lab?

2:06:00SpeakerThe biomass?

2:06:01BubblemanYeah, the biomass you spent.

2:06:02SpeakerWe send all of our biomass out. It's not spent. We still send it off for either CRC hydrocarbon extraction or distillation. So we squeeze the biomass for every last dollar. Yes. And what are those guys getting?

2:06:16BubblemanOkay, that's not bad.

2:06:18SpeakerThat's pretty good, actually. We're getting most of what's in there out. And then what's the beauty of Dry Sift is that because we didn't stick it into water, we can send it out for the secondary extraction.

2:06:29BubblemanRight. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, for sure. So this is a huge tip Logan's just said here. And I've done it where I've literally run material through a 250 and gotten like a 60% return. Like 60%, but you're right, it's just green dust. Now, for many, that secondary screen filtration, the vibrating screens running that green dust and cleaning out the heads, that is a component I feel most people aren't aware of and are missing in their process.

2:07:03BubblemanBecause most of them are afraid to mix that aggressively through a screen that large because now, counterintuitively, you've created... Now you probably have like 95% contaminant in your material. All you've really done is broken the weed into an almost powder and reduced maybe 30 or 40% of that biomass, which, yeah, that's great. You can't be losing the material. You have to be able to. So to me, if you're going to dry sift your material and you're going to exclusively use a Sambo Creek unit, a plasmatic unit, then I would say, The 250 is probably an incredibly good idea.

2:07:41BubblemanAnd then also really honing in on how you do your secondary sieve. I would consider probably just a fucking row tap would probably be perfect. You could just dump that material right in the top, vibrate it, and it'll like isolate and separate heads. It's still going to be contaminant. It's not going to be like pure by any means, but the jet sieve and the ATS and the The final Sambo Creek filtration.

2:08:07BubblemanAnd really, if you need to, I mean, listen, sometimes Skunk Man Sam, he would run his sieve, his sift through the screen over 10 times. He would over 10 times, and he could tell he was just pushing a little bit of contaminant through each time.

2:08:24SpeakerI've done up to like 14, 15 passes just to hit 98, 99% purity. So when I was able to do this on scale with dry sift and I didn't, the first time when I received the dry sift out of the machine and it was 98, 90, because we check it all with the microscope. The first time it was 98, 99% pure. I was, I was blown away.

2:08:46SpeakerI was like, I didn't have to stand in front of a screen. I didn't do any hand passes on it. And it spent the least amount of time ever out in the environment because we have the processes so, so well down that now we've preserved the most amount of terpenes in the dry sift itself when you're doing that specific process.

2:09:07BubblemanFor sure. Well, the dry sift is definitely one way to preserve aromatic volatiles that water hash cannot offer on the same level. That is an absolute fact. That being said, I will say that some of the best water hash I've ever smoked Is definitely on par with some of the best dry sift that I've ever smoked. They're very, very, once you get the most incredible expressions and the most perfect process and extraction and cure and everything, they're very, very, very, very close to one another.

2:09:39BubblemanI will say a lot more people have bubble hash in their stash than full melt dry sift. And a lot more people have rosin in their stash than the full melt bubble and the dry sift people multiplied by like a hundred and all added together. There's just, it is still the Holy Grail, which is why I love seeing you post about it. I love the photos and holding up the different colors and variations.

2:10:04BubblemanDude, we're going to have a lot of fun in the next couple of days, I will tell you that.

2:10:08SpeakerI'm very, very excited. And then, you know, that's not even to mention doing, you know, fresh frozen dry sift, essentially. Exactly. So taking very fresh material, processing it, and then doing it all within freezer parameters, right? So you can do that and you can get essentially very similar products to water hash, but fresh frozen, dry sifted. So that's going to be really exciting to see in the future when more and more people start doing that method.

2:10:40BubblemanYeah, well, I mean, TJ from the original resonator has really helped spark that with his CO2 induced resonator. Indra years ago on Hashtag shared with us the liquid nitrogen method that he had been using for years and years and years to isolate and extract resin heads. Then he turned on a bunch of different people. That's really how the cryo can kind of came to be. It was after Indra shared that information.

2:11:08BubblemanShout out to Indra. I hope you're feeling better, dude. I know you've fucking been falling and getting into car accidents and dying of cancer and having all these crazy fucking things go on. But Indra's still around. He's still kicking. He's still pushing through. So, yeah, I think fresh frozen dry sift will, you know, it's not as complicated as many want to make it out to be. You definitely want to make sure that when you're running fresh material and That you realize that there is going to be some moisture in that wax membrane.

2:11:38BubblemanSo it's not quite the same as running dry material and curing and the post-processing of fresh frozen dry sift. I mean, it's not a bad idea to figure out a way to make sure that you don't just package that shit up, but that you figure whether you're sublimating or if you don't want to do that because you're still trying to preserve terps, you figure out a great way to...

2:12:00BubblemanTo air dry those heads a little bit so that they don't cause problems and butter out in a bad way down the road. Totally. What else you got in your quiver there for dry sifting tips and tricks that you've been enjoying lately?

2:12:19SpeakerOh, it's mostly it's just what I said right there. That's like we do a very simple process and we can achieve 98, 99 percent by mass on scale without any issue. And so it's it's literally just a couple of steps. It's actually stupid simple.

2:12:40BubblemanBeautiful. Well, that's what I can't wait.

2:12:44SpeakerHand static though, great way to get into it. The bubble man screens that you can get, just starting by rubbing a screen, that's the best way to get into it. And I think the best way is just grabbing several different sizes of gloves, trying that out, and then getting into it that way before heavily investing into stuff like that, because you want to see what you can make right off the bat, right?

2:13:08SpeakerAnd so do a little test first. Yeah, I know that Sambo's releasing a at-home unit that'll be around $500. So like anyone could order that and buy that and then do miniature tests.

2:13:22BubblemanYeah, no, it's amazing, dude. It's super cool to be able to play around. Like I said, when I first figured it out, well, didn't figure it out when I was first shown and sort of figured out how to incorporate it into my daily hash making life, which was mostly, you know, meeting growers and saying, hey, if you have dry sift, I can clean it up for you.

2:13:40BubblemanAnd I, I was so beyond generous. I literally took 10% or less when I would clean people's materials and So the great gardener was one of the people I did that for. I'm not even, I'm certain the first dozen trophies he won first place from was probably from full melt dry sift of like barb that he grew because his particular cultivar was just really, really well received to the process.

2:14:06BubblemanWhat I did find out with the process, and I'm not sure if you guys have sort of found a way around this or if Sambo Creek has found a way around this. That you know the static process itself works the best with exceptional material and to want to bother with it with less lesser material seems to be more of a pain in the ass than you know and it's and i'm talking even without the machine but just the simple hand pass over a screen how you can suddenly have just like 15 grams of hash on your glove We're 12 grams of hash on your glove in a very short period of time versus like spending hours and pulling off like three grams.

2:14:47BubblemanSo there's definitely the material speaks It's very much the word of God in regards to the quality and caliber of the material. So not all heads are created alike and creating 99.9% purity doesn't mean that those heads were grown and expressed to excellence. It doesn't mean that those heads are going to be an exceptional smoke. So really what you want is you want heads that have been grown to perfection and expressed perfectly And then you want to do these processes on those heads as well as can be done.

2:15:23BubblemanAnd then you end up with a really sort of special product. I'm sure there's levels that go down with that process. I think there's got to be more value in the process than just creating 99.9% heads because not everyone wants that. We certainly do. Welcome to Dale Sky Jones. I see you just popped in. Hello there.

2:15:47SpeakerHello, it is a pleasure to be here. And yes, I just keep going back to nature versus nurture. It's what you start with. Yes, the quality of the original materials, but it's just as important what you do with it.

2:16:02BubblemanAbsolutely. Do you want to introduce yourself and let the past church panelists and audience know who you are, who you are?

2:16:08SpeakerCertainly. Hi, everyone. I'm Dale Skye Jones with Oaksterdam University. I have been educating in this space for almost 20 years and have the pleasure of being married to Mr. Jeff Jones, who has been in the movement for 30 years this spring. Wow. We have, together with Mr. Richard Lee, Worked on this amazing project, not just to legalize weed, but to legalize people around the country and around the world.

2:16:44SpeakerAnd so I'm here to say hello and join all of you, learn a little bit and hopefully share some of his story and our story.

2:16:56BubblemanOh, thank you so much. I'm sure Etienne must have sent you the link. It's really nice to see you. And even ever so briefly, you speak with an air of confidence on the subject. You know what you're talking about when it comes to cannabis and amazing work that you and Jeff have done and the whole team, Richard and Etienne and Debbie and So many to mention.

2:17:19SpeakerSo many shoulders we stand on, yes. My talent is surrounding myself with people that are smarter than me and learning from them. And ATN is definitely someone who welcomed me early in the movement and in my own life and frankly convinced me that Mr. Jones was into me. And so I stuck around. So thank you, ATN.

2:17:43BubblemanThat is amazing.

2:17:44SpeakerYes, credit where credit is due in so many ways.

2:17:48BubblemanEtienne is always propping us all up. He's the ultimate support system, this guy.

2:17:53SpeakerEven from the couch, yes.

2:17:56BubblemanAbsolutely, absolutely. Well, welcome. No, it's really nice to have you on Hash Church. It's really sad to hear about Richard and sort of, you know, somewhat sad to... I mean, I don't, I don't know if it's sad, but just, I'm still waiting for the California, you know, like California to me was the sort of center of the cannabis universe. Still really to me, it is, I know other people want to argue it.

2:18:22BubblemanI'm like, okay, well it is what it is, but it's California. I know that a ton of the California influence came up the West coast to, to, to sort of create the vibe that's here in British Columbia. We were deeply affected by the whole, um, you know, that California, Information and knowledge that not only Jack, but even people before him, the people escaping to go fight wars and stuff that came up from California and moved into the Kootenays and the Duke of Boers.

2:18:51BubblemanThis whole scene that we have going on here is definitely, we have to pay homage along the West Coast, especially in the cannabis world to California. And I just want to see it come out at the other end of the light because it's, and I don't pretend to know everything that's going on there. But just watching the obstacles that have had to been, you know, and then watching the farms fall to the side and just the taxes and the, you know, the full madness.

2:19:17BubblemanIt reminds me a little bit of Canada in the sense, because we're a bit of a mess up here as well. Yet, I say that, yet cannabis is more accessible, I'm sure, in California and Canada than it's ever been. And in reality, I like to think of what Skunk Man Sam said back in the day. He said, I'm fighting for people to have access for it. I don't give a fuck who makes the profits.

2:19:39BubblemanIt's the people who are worried about who makes the profits that tend to have a problem with their specific type of activism. If you're worried about who's going to make the profits in the end, then you're probably going to be upset. But if you just want to make it accessible, then that's a battle that we can, well, clearly, that we can handle.

2:20:00SpeakerYeah, and that was always something that... I appreciate it about Richard and Jeff for that matter. You know, Oakstradam, my joke, we were so busy trying to save the world, we forgot to make money. But the reality is, is we changed the world. And it was because we didn't gatekeep. We shared the blueprint. We taught others how to set up for success and prepare for the worst.

2:20:22SpeakerBut most importantly, when you do well, do good. And to remember not just whose shoulders we stand on, but, you know, who's Who's been left behind and who's still in prison for what so many folks are making money on that we are not done yet. And while we might be comfortable, especially, you know, I gotta be honest, like we're all not as likely to get pulled over.

2:20:49SpeakerAnd if we are pulled over, we're more likely to go home at night. And so just also Recognizing that we each carry different risks depending on what we look like, where we live, and who we're caring for, that those of us that can stand up must.

2:21:07BubblemanAnd who you know, let me tell you. I'm sure I would have had many worse experiences with the police had my mom not been chief 911 operator for my city growing up.

2:21:20SpeakerYou probably dodged more than one, yes.

2:21:26SpeakerOh, good, because I rolled one for the occasion.

2:21:30Etienne FontanThat's an amazing get out of jail free card, having your parents in that sort of situation.

2:21:36BubblemanBut you can't even imagine it yet. You have no idea how many times I would like to because I got so listen, listen, the best one ever. I'm living with my with my roommate, Microwave and Microwave. We called him that because one day on acid, him and my buddy Dave Esau were on acid and they decided to climb, Dave decided to climb an electric pole to see if he could see further because they were waiting for their friends to pick them up.

2:22:05BubblemanThis is the prairies. You can see for miles without going up a pole. Anyway, Dave got electrocuted. Microwave went up, grabbed him, put him over his shoulder and came back down and saved his life and got very badly burnt by doing it. So we called him Microwave. That was his nickname. This is the prairies. So Microwave decides, he's my roommate, we're growing weed and mushrooms. We're growing the spores that we ordered from Terrence and Kat McKenna in Hawaii called the Siziji.

2:22:35BubblemanAnd we're growing, and this is like the late 80s, early 90s. We're growing cannabis in a secret wall that you have to open to get into in my roommate's room. A small grow, two 400 light OptiMarks. I'll never forget. I liked those OptiMark light bulbs back in the day. Anyway, I'm sitting in my living room where I'm selling weed like daily with my buddy, John, and we're puffing weed and we hear this bang, bang, bang.

2:23:07BubblemanAnd I look at John and I go, holy shit, that sounded like a cop knock. And I look through the little thing and it's two cops and my roommate with handcuffs with his head down in front of them. And I'm like, ooh, this is not going to be good. Also, the day before, my roommate was fucking around out in front of our front door and he broke the light that lights up the porch and it's nighttime.

2:23:33BubblemanAnd my whole house reeks like weed. And so I go out to the door and I'm basically like, I open the door and I come out really fast to shut the door behind me. And this kind of throws them off a little bit because it's pretty dark. So they're kind of like, you know, grabbing their tasers and their guns and stuff. And I'm like, oh, hey, hi.

2:23:51BubblemanOh, what's the problem? What's the problem? And then like an angel out of heaven, I hear Bravo Echo One, this is, and I'm like, oh, oh, that's my mom on your radio. That's Paulette. And they're like, oh, they're like, Paulette, do you have a son that lives at 168 Lenore Street? And she's like, oh yeah, that's my son. Say hi to him for me. And boom, like I'm having this like miracle experience where we no longer have to show ID.

2:24:24BubblemanBasically what had happened was my roommate thought it was a good idea because he wanted to make a bong And I'm talking like serious psychopaths

2:25:00BubblemanLike people that's strangled children with piano wires and stuff, those kind of people. That's who we would have been in jail with. And I heard my mom's voice. Oh, that's my mom. Oh, does he have a roommate named Jason Noctigal? Yep, he sure does. Okay, thanks. That's all we needed to know. Okay, sorry, guys. Hey, have a good night. And they just turned around and I was like, Forget about white privilege, okay?

2:25:22BubblemanBecause it's cop privilege. It doesn't matter what color you are. If you have a family member in the police, and the police say this everywhere, we don't arrest police people. I don't ticket police people. And a lot of people, when I was growing up, were like, oh, dude, like, this bullshit, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, look, it may be bullshit, but I'm on the right side of it right now, and it's benefiting you right now, so shut the fuck up.

2:25:53BubblemanHoly Christ.

2:25:55SpeakerYou got lucky and damn.

2:25:57BubblemanListen, you don't even know. I moved to BC and less than two years, I was under arrest in a cop car, in a prison cell. I was like, oh shit. It wasn't white privilege. It was police privilege.

2:26:11SpeakerWell, fun.

2:26:12BubblemanThey're different.

2:26:13SpeakerFun fact. My mom was also on the radio when I And four of my friends came this close to going with them instead of going home with each other. When they pulled up, we were under a bridge. Yeah, it was like under a bridge downtown, except there was no downtown. It was on the middle of the boondocks, but under the bridge in Florida. And Florida is definitely an F around and find out state.

2:26:41SpeakerAnd my mom was on the air, on the radio. And it turned out they all listened to her. And so it was a slightly different, but my mom was on the air. And it turned out that the guy knew my mom and suddenly we were friends and on our way home that night instead of on the way to jail. Cause my, two of my friends were handcuffed in the back.

2:27:05SpeakerLike it was, we were headed, we were going.

2:27:09BubblemanCause they're disassociated from it. The minute there's a connection, it's like,

2:27:14SpeakerDo I want to deal with this? Maybe I can look at you like somebody's kid.

2:27:19BubblemanYeah, it instantly changes. Trust me, because man, I'll tell you, I've had the experience start the bad way. I had the ticket all completely written up one time. And then I was like, Oh, you know, I always try to drop my mom's name. And I'm like, Oh, my mom's gonna be so mad. He's like, Yeah, well, you shouldn't have turned right on a red or whatever I did.

2:27:36BubblemanAnd I said, Yeah, but You don't understand. She works for the police. She's going to be super upset. And she's like, oh, who's your mom? I'm like, oh, it's Paulette Richardson. He's like, oh, I know Paulette. He's the one that ripped the ticket right in front of me and said, I don't ticket police people. And I was just like, jaw on the floor like police people, dude.

2:27:54BubblemanIf only you knew. Like, I may be related. To these people.

2:28:01SpeakerI rebelled against my parent.

2:28:05BubblemanVery much so. Very much so. That is awesome. Florida, hey? Listen, in Canada, back in the day, we would watch any news story that started with a Florida man, you would immediately pay attention because it was going to be good.

2:28:20SpeakerWell, and the law is in Florida and Wyoming, there's a couple states, it's just there's not as many people in Wyoming and it's usually involving just yourself, but In Florida, it's a sunshine state. So the news reports on every arrest, every arrest. And that is why you have so many juicy, wonderful, terrible stories about Florida man and in fairness, Florida woman.

2:28:44BubblemanAnd you know what? That's a very well said statement because I will say from someone that grew up as with a mom who was, you know, 911 60 hours a week, I thought my city was way crazier than anyone else really had any idea because no one is supposed to know all the horrific shit that's happening in a city at one point in time. So I just grew up kind of thinking my city was like The most dangerous city in the world.

2:29:12BubblemanLike it was just like, there's no way people are doing this in other cities. This is next level. And in, you know, in response, as I grew older and got more mature, it is actually one of the most hardcore cities. But to hear about it constantly is, you know, and when you work in that as well, you become desensitized to it. And that's why it's easy for that cop to put your friends in the back of the car because he's desensitized to it.

2:29:37BubblemanHe's not, you're not necessarily human beings until now he's connected you to your mom. And now you're all humans now. And it's like, fuck, Now empathy comes in. I mean, it's in their best interest when they're policing to try to not have empathy because the people who they actually have to be worried about, which is a very small percentage of society, will use that against them in a detrimental way as a weakness.

2:30:05BubblemanIf you're being too kind to a sociopath, you can end up shot.

2:30:11SpeakerIt's dangerous. And That's also, you know, bringing it back to like why a lot of us are here. And I think about ATN as well, um, as, as, you know, combat veteran, it's, it's like what, what they, you know, we draw the, we, they draw the lines and then what side of the line are you on and, and bringing it back to, and what are the priorities?

2:30:33SpeakerAnd this was something that, you know, was always a part of what we all fought for is look, we need the police. We, you know, my mom became a, As far as right out of police academy, a citizen on patrol. She wanted to be able to ride her horse. That's awesome. So now she's a DOP to ride her horse wherever she wants, right? And it's, she walks out the door in a uniform and I'm like, wait, you are the anti what, what?

2:31:01SpeakerIt, you know, full circle, but it's, it's, you know, protect and serve. And she's there, she's a volunteer, number one, and it's for community. It's to make sure that if somebody's like stuck out in the middle of a fricking swamp on their horse, That they are rescued. That if kids are lost, that they find their way home. That that is what we need our police for is that when we show up, when the police show up to our door, it's not the mushrooms or the plant in your closet that is the crime.

2:31:30SpeakerIt's not you they're coming for. They're here to protect you from violent crime, from crime against others, from rape kits. That's the crime you can prevent. Not testing little bags of green. So it's just where are the priorities? And that's really what we need to get back to. And right now, a lot of the priority, even as we decriminalize, I'm sorry, even as we legalize certain things in certain places, we fail to decriminalize for especially our youth, which is who the target's now on.

2:32:00SpeakerBecause it's legal if you're 21 and up or if you're a patient, but it's not legal if you're 20 or if you're 18. And I just think back to all the dumb shit I did at 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. Okay, 25, 30. I kept going, but not as dumb. You know, you learn that we're criminalizing just young stupidity over weed at 20, at 18, at 16.

2:32:26SpeakerLike, come on, we must, we can do better. It's, we're just, yeah, we're not done yet.

2:32:32BubblemanNo, you're right. It's very much the case. Like, it's unfortunate that, I mean, listen, the lack of funding here in Canada for the police and more importantly, and I think the funding fell out because of this and the way cannabis just happened to work, the easiest way for them to bust you with cannabis It was just the easiest way. You can smell it up against the car, buddy.

2:32:56BubblemanPull over there, you know, like we're coming in type of thing. And that legalization, at least in Canada, You know, took that away because we have first we got medical and anyone could get a medical license. Then we got recreational, which was now like, OK, anyone under the above the age of 19 can buy cannabis. I think maybe 18, maybe 18 in certain provinces because it's the same as alcohol.

2:33:24BubblemanAnd I believe it's 18 and 19 across Canada, the two ages. So it's all run by those boards. And then

2:33:33BubblemanI didn't want to lose my train of thought here.

2:33:37SpeakerWell, it's not contraband. It's You don't have to take it by force if necessary. It is now a commodity that can be bought.

2:33:44BubblemanAnd the four plants. We're also allowed to grow four plants. Everyone in Canada that's above 19 can grow four plants. That's a part of the recreational thing. So now we have these sort of three tiers of medical, recreational, and a freedom to grow four plants if you're over 19. That's just completely eliminated the majority of policing All of these things are against cannabis, which is amazing because in the long run, cannabis doesn't need to be policed, but there are things like methamphetamine and fentanyl and human trafficking and like prostitution.

2:34:19BubblemanLike if they only understood that, listen, you can't just hide these things. They're never going away. You have to legalize them and somehow regulate them in some way that makes it safer for the people who want to engage in those activities. To not get, you know, hurt or, or killed.

2:34:38SpeakerYeah. Legalized sex work. Same, same. It's yeah.

2:34:42BubblemanLike what the fuck?

2:34:44SpeakerWell, we were, you were talking about breeding and I don't mean to make the double entendre of sex work to breeding. But you know, it was, it was there. There's yeah. There's so much to talk about with all of this. And I, I fear that I've taken our, the conversation like so far afield with law enforcement and,

2:35:04BubblemanOh, that's what Hofstra is all about. We could be talking about this now for the next two hours. Like it was perfect timing. You came in, it was fresh. It was, no, we're very happy. In fact, if you want to tell any stories, if you want to talk about your history, how you got into this, pivotal moments, moments that, you know, maybe when you met Richard and Jeff, like whatever you want, we're here to listen to.

2:35:25BubblemanYou're a fresh new face and you're well-spoken and articulate. So thank you.

2:35:32SpeakerThank you, Marcus. Yeah, and that look on ATN's face, I'm like, oh, you probably have some stories to tell.

2:35:39Etienne FontanWell, you know, it's a long history. And Jeff came to me in the spring of 94 and was our protege on tour. So he's over the 30 year threshold. But no, I was fortunate to watch Jeff and Dale fall in love with each other. Jeff was also my roommate. And so we had a house together. And so I watched them. Fall in love, come together, move down to LA because they expanded.

2:36:06Etienne FontanThey tried to expand, um, Oakstradam University. Well, I can't notice they tried to, they did expand Oakstradam University down into Los Angeles in the earlier days because, um, it was, um, uh, LA was pretty much the wild west for cannabis in that sense. There was no sort of regulations, uh, My group had opened up LAPCG and then our CPG got destroyed in 2007 in Los Angeles. But so there was no education and all the education was up north.

2:36:38Etienne FontanSo. Into their budding relationship, Jeff and Dale had to endure going down to L.A. together and figuring, literally, practically squatting together in the classroom just to survive back in the day because it was, you know, literally hand to mouth, right, Dale?

2:37:00SpeakerHe's not even joking. We slept in the back room of the office there for several months and... True story until we finally got an apartment out there. Yeah. Cause yes. Yeah. We, we, we had the office in LA, um, for about almost three years and, uh, and, and went in North Bay and, and just. I can only imagine how much weight they thought we were moving back and forth because we were driving back and forth between Oakland and LA at least once a week, if not twice a week.

2:37:35SpeakerYes, you heard me right. Driving back and forth between LA and Oakland like twice a week. And we just had cases and cases in the trunk. Of binders, not pot books. Trying to educate. Yeah, it was a lot.

2:37:55Etienne FontanWell, not only that, you also got thrust into the limelight because you had two things. I used to watch, and I think you deserve some amazing fucking credit. She was also a mother and one of the first to talk about her children. Not only that, through her pregnancy, her first pregnancy, well, all of her pregnancies were challenging. But of course, Dale had the opposite of cannabis hyperemesis syndrome.

2:38:27Etienne FontanShe would basically throw up from just the child being inside of her, the stress, whatever. You just unfortunately had those bad genes. You would be up throwing up all night. I would be bringing you my hash blends, which were a lot of water hash made from those wonderful bubble bags, if you believe it or not. And I would make my mix and give it to you so you could hold down whatever.

2:38:54Etienne FontanAnd I would literally go in downstairs at 630 in the morning, give you hash. Then you would you'd be up all night throwing up. You would then go upstairs, take a shower and then drive to San Francisco and do CNN and do because you were working originally on Prop 19, which unfortunately failed. And I've got some beautiful photos of that night, which was an absolute gut wrenching night to experience.

2:39:23Etienne Fontanbut you were an unsung unsung shero for the balancing act of one trying to have a child then you were able to successfully have a child then you were not afraid to take your child out and to people to not be ashamed as a canna mother which is a big thing and you got you know like many other activists in the world you got thrust into the limelight And then you were, you know, given grief and shit because you were taking your child out and normalizing cannabis as a mother, which of course we knew was a very challenging time because of our fear of child protective services and all that.

2:40:07Etienne FontanAnd you were a very brave mother by stepping out and not only surviving and being able to get through those pregnancies, but We have three amazing, beautiful children as a result. And it's still scary. Like, CPS still looms. And...

2:40:46SpeakerYeah, I pretty much carry around a little puke bag with me all day, every day through, yes, all the way through them being born. We're not just talking morning sickness, friends. No.

2:40:59BubblemanJesus, that's horrific.

2:41:03SpeakerNo fun, no fun. But that's all the stuff that you don't see, right? And I definitely didn't make the cut in the documentary because who wants to see that? That's gross. No fun for anyone.

2:41:17BubblemanYeah.

2:41:18SpeakerYeah.

2:41:19BubblemanIt's definitely part of the cross to bear. It seems like women have carried some serious, serious weight for the human race.

2:41:29SpeakerLike call your mother, tell her you love her today. Your grandmother, friendly reminder, your wife, your woman, your partner, your sister. Yes. Your daughter.

2:41:41BubblemanI just did. I just texted my wife. I love you. Let's see what she says. I see the three dots.

2:41:49SpeakerThat's sweet. Right on, Marcus. It is. Yeah. And it's worth it because so many moms, it's been shocking how many folks have come up to me and just said, I saw you and realized I could do it. And it is often the secret of just seeing somebody else pull it off and know they can do it, whoever it is. And it's our partners that give us that strength often.

2:42:15Etienne FontanWell, it had to be challenging though, because you're a new mother and of course you're promoting cannabis and here they are, you know, chastising you for having your child out with you and speaking that had to be, that's something we don't experience.

2:42:32SpeakerWell, and it, you know, it's, it's hard. Cause I felt a responsibility. Like I still had a job to do, even though I had a baby and I didn't want the baby to be The story, like I was pregnant, I was nine months pregnant on election day of prom 19. So I was trying to hide the baby behind the suit coat and behind the podium so that the baby wasn't the story.

2:42:52SpeakerAnd fortunately, well, fortunately, unfortunately, the throwing up helped keep the girlish figure. So it was easy to hide the baby behind a coat suit. And, but yeah, it's, it's the,

2:43:11SpeakerBeing attacked, especially in a national newspaper, it unfortunately did happen, and by another woman, no less. It was not the men in the room that were the problem. It was another woman, as it often is. And just figuring out how to navigate with, while questioning everything that you do the entire time, if what you're doing is putting your children and your family at risk, And ATN, you know, it was also out of necessity.

2:43:45SpeakerIt was out of desperation. You know, we were raided in April of 2012. Jackson was not even two years old and still kind of strapped on my front during all of that. I lost my job. I lost childcare. I lost my paycheck. I couldn't hire a babysitter. So if I was going to get out there and still do it, the only way to do it was to strap them on and go.

2:44:14SpeakerYou just do what you got to do.

2:44:16BubblemanYeah, no, it's true. You definitely do. Oh, yeah, you can request that, Etienne, if you would like to present. Etienne has a presentation for us.

2:44:27SpeakerOh, my goodness. Oh, look at you. Oh, my gosh.

2:44:33Etienne FontanSo that's you. This is the Prop 19 when we lost in 2010. And this is you in front of international media. There's Dale just getting inundated. And it was a hard fucking night because we lost, right? I mean, that was, you know, a night of pure pain at a certain resolve, right? It was a... Gosh, we tried, but it wasn't good enough situation, you know.

2:45:06SpeakerAnd we were winning. We were we were at 56 percent at one point. And then everyone and their brother and mother and cousin and every living drug czar and current elected official came out against us and said, California, hellfire and damnation will rain upon your soul. Don't legalize. We just decriminalized. And then we almost. Oh.

2:45:30Etienne Fontanright but you know that failure gave hope to you know oregon and colorado which of course changed the world and this is what i was talking about shortly before you came on was the legacy that you know richard had created because All we needed was the chance and the opportunity. You know, we didn't realize your gifts until you actually were out there and doing it. And we realized, holy shit, this woman can not only get out there, she can speak.

2:46:00Etienne FontanOh shit, she can speak well in front of the media. Fuck it, put her in front of the media. Let's have her speak.

2:46:04SpeakerOh shit.

2:46:06Etienne FontanOh shit, now she's pregnant. You know, how do we deal with all this? So, you know, you got not only, you know, thrust into the middle of it, you also grew up, fell in love, became a mother, created a family. And at the same time, uplifted a movement. And there's not many women who have been thrust into that limelight that could handle that. And you handled it with a style and a grace.

2:46:38Etienne FontanLook, you fucked up. You made mistakes. We all did. I mean, we learned.

2:46:41SpeakerThree times a day.

2:46:43Etienne FontanBut at the same time, you got out there. You were not afraid. You took it on the chin. And that's why I had to speak about people do not realize the personal sacrifice and what it did to your body, your throat. And, you know, you used to be on the toilet sometimes for 12 hours at a time, you know, just just throwing up. You know, literally, I would come home from work, she'd be on the toilet, I would go to bed, wake up, she would still be downstairs on the toilet, you know, and then like I said, she'd smoke her hash, get a little food in her, get in the car, and then come home and then You know, get her clothes off and then be right back on the toilet and rinse, lather, repeat because she was just writing out just having a fucking child and you are a fucking saint for all that and Jeff for supporting you and all that because I watched it every day for that whole nine months.

2:47:42Etienne FontanAnd I loved y'all. But when you came home with the first child, I was like, this is where I bow out. You know, I love y'all, but this is where y'all create family. And I have to go off and now be myself, which I missed y'all. I mean, I... I enjoyed watching you all both fall in love together but at the same time you know while you were doing that he was writing and dealing with his you know court case and the OCBC and surviving that and I mean, you want to talk about a power couple really fucking doing their best to just keep their head above water.

2:48:23Etienne FontanI mean, people do not realize I do. I saw it. And I just want to acknowledge with respect and humility how amazing those times were, but also how Thank you so much for joining us.

2:49:09Etienne FontanSo, you know, that's a great deal of credit as well as stick-to-itiveness in a lot of dog years, you know, so much respect.

2:49:25SpeakerThank you. And right back at you, ATN. I mean, yeah, we get knocked down, but we get back up again. Nothing going to keep us down.

2:49:34BubblemanWe're getting all the musical. You know, Dr. Mark, I think it was Dr. Mark who dropped, who's telling the story? Oh no, it was Etienne. You did the one earlier. You talked about Richard working for Aerosmith and then later on in the story you said something about living on the edge.

2:49:52SpeakerLiving on the edge. Yeah, the accident happened while he was working for Aerosmith. He worked like lighting, rigging, so he was always up up in the the scaffolding up high in the sky um for fun richard used to fly like the ultralights the gliders and stuff um that was like he was he was he was an adrenaline junkie and i think that he's kind of stuck with that in his political life too of taking risks uh he couldn't take risks up in the air and on motorcycles uh the way that he could before the accident and that you know in in touching back to the The law enforcement story, it was, he was carjacked a couple of years after his accident.

2:50:40SpeakerAnd he was with a friend in a car, so he didn't have his wheelchair. And, you know, he's got a gun to his face and they're like, you know, get the fuck out of the car. He's like, I can't, I'm paraplegic. So they pulled him out of the car and, you know, left him on the ground and it took the cops Way too long to show up.

2:50:58SpeakerAnd that was, it wasn't the accident and knowing cannabis was medicine that got him so political. That was all true. That's not what got him political. It was being left on the ground by the cops for over an hour waiting for them to show up after getting carjacked and wondering what the hell have you been doing? What are you so focused on that you couldn't come to a carjacking?

2:51:26SpeakerAnd thus began the fight. What are you doing? Where are your priorities, police? Oh, police, you're doing what you're told? You're order takers? Look who gives your orders. Oh, I see. I got to go change the laws. I know how to do that.

2:51:44BubblemanJust like that, hey? That's how it happens.

2:51:47SpeakerJust like that in over 30 years.

2:51:50BubblemanInspired by injustice.

2:51:52SpeakerYes. And that is, that is, that has always been why we fight. Like it's, you know, we love the plant, but it's the freedom to choose the plant, to use the plant, to consume the plant because the most dangerous part of cannabis has always been getting caught with it. And that's just stupid.

2:52:12BubblemanWe can do better. Right up until BHL came up. BHO was a close second to the DEA there for a while while young kids were blown up, but we luckily got that in order. That was a scary one. But you're right.

2:52:27SpeakerPeople are going to do it. It's just, you know, where and when and who and how. And if you don't offer a legal safe path, then people are going to continue to do dumb shit. And it's not that people aren't going to keep doing dumb shit. They're dumb people. But for the most part, people want to do the right thing and just giving them a path to do it is all we ever needed.

2:52:48SpeakerAnd well, you know what? We still work like we were talking about Ookstradam like it's in the past. We're, you know, and you touched on this a moment ago, ATN. We've actually, we work for the city of Los Angeles now. We work for the city of Oakland now to provide technical assistance and social equity awareness campaign for those that have been formerly incarcerated. We work For the state of New Jersey Economic Development Authority and the Connecticut Social Equity Council, the state of Missouri, the Department of Health and Veterans Services, Senior Services, all that money went to veterans in Missouri.

2:53:25SpeakerSo like there's states that are getting it right. There's states that are doing things that are And trust me, like I hear all the time with social equity programs, it's like, oh, it's a free handout. No, it's really just an open door to go work your ass off. It's not any easier for them. It's just letting folks not be barred for having had that law enforcement encounter that did not end well.

2:53:52SpeakerSo it's been really amazing working with all these different entrepreneurs and just job seekers, people looking for their freedom and their future. And it's amazing to hear people And it feels like kids, like you get to that certain age where, you know, we were like, I wanted to come to Oaksterdam my whole life. And I'm like, wait a minute. Oh shit. It is your whole life. Oh my God.

2:54:16SpeakerLike, and they don't even know the fear, the loathing, the stigma. It's just, they take it for granted. And while it's like frustrating bubble, man, it's also, it's gratifying that like, they don't know the fear. And the loathing because they have a safe path and just keeping on going with that in the states and in the provinces. And, you know, in Canada, it feels like about freedom with cultivars.

2:54:42SpeakerYou know, you figured out a lot of the laws really quick. Well done. But then but limited in different ways and just allowing for, you know, experimentation and. You know, this is the Amazon and we're just at the tip of exploration on what all this can do. And we launched a breeding program coming up. Well, it's already available, but we're doing it live with James Loud, who recently wrote a breeding book and just helping people figure out like what's best for them and their neck of the woods with their operations and their aptitude Like, you know, what are your goals?

2:55:25SpeakerWho is this for? Is it just a plant in your closet? Is it commercial operations? Is it, you know, in Florida or is it in Michigan? It's, you know, what's best for you and how you roll and what you need. So it's fun just continuing to meet the needs of people.

2:55:44BubblemanExcellent. Where will people be able to find that?

2:55:47SpeakerAh, we have shortened our .com. It's now just oakstradam.com.

2:55:52BubblemanOkay, well, that's good.

2:55:54SpeakerYeah, if you go to oakstradam.com, you'll not just find out about the breeding program, but we've also really tried to democratize training. So much of this has gotten so expensive. And, you know, I'm seeing these like two and three and four and $5,000 programs. I'm like, oh, damn, that must be really good. And then I'm opening up. I'm like, that's not very good. There's AI. There's some that are, you know, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:56:44Speakermean you harm and people that just don't know what the hell they're doing who are trying to give you excellent advice but isn't for you or people that know what they're doing and are giving you excellent advice and it's not for you that helping to figure out what is for you is it's just really gratifying to help people find their place and space not whether it's in the industry in the movement or just in their own garden and find what what serves them and the people that they love And that's what Oakstradam has always been about and what we're blessed to be able to continue to do.

2:57:19BubblemanThat's awesome. I love that. People need it too. I mean, more people than ever. You know, as cannabis becomes more available and, you know, legalized, decriminalized, whatever you want to call it, more and more people come. I'll tell you one thing. In Canada in particular, when legalization occurred in 2017, which was, you know, at that point in time, all the cannabis people, everyone had a license. So we weren't like...

2:57:45BubblemanReally living in prohibition anymore. We had licenses, we had that protection of the medical license, and that was very powerful. But like recreational legalization, that set a totally different tone in the country. Like it really set a different tone where all of a sudden it was like people that were just like, nope, that's illegal. They were like, well, I tried a gummy the other day. You just hear people like, I would just be out at a restaurant and people would be talking I'm talking about this like, oh, my son brought one of those cannabis beverages home the other day.

2:58:20BubblemanAnd you're just hearing like super straight people getting exposed to cannabis sort of for the first time. And I get to watch it happen over the course of a couple of years. And it's a lot less, you know, there was other things I had to watch. One of the things I had to watch was like all the garbage getting thrown like out in front of the store right where they bought it.

2:58:40BubblemanAnd I was like, oh, my God, like. This is terrible. This is like cannabis packaging all over the store. And Canadian cannabis packaging is like notoriously just terrible. It looks like this. It's like everything just looks like Like that. It's just all, it just looks all the same on the shelf, black and white and yellow. And I mean, there's more colors now they've sort of opened up and I'm sure it'll, it'll open up more and more and more as they realize the great lie, right?

2:59:08BubblemanThere's always a great lie based on that cannabis prohibition is based on. They used to try and say it burnt out your brain cells, that your semen count would go down, all this other bullshit. But, uh,

2:59:21SpeakerYou'll grow boobs as men. Oh, there's so many. You want to start listing all the things that your tongue comes green. Come on, Mark. Come on, Brian. You got some in there.

2:59:33BubblemanYou guys got to have some.

2:59:37SpeakerWhat are some of the things you heard are going to happen to you? Yeah, your testicle will definitely shrivel. Yeah, bad things for babies. Definitely don't, you know, breastfeed or Any of that. That's that stuff. Your children will grow up stupid.

2:59:50DrIt leads to schizophrenia, doesn't it?

2:59:52SpeakerSchizophrenia, yeah.

2:59:53DrOh, right, right, right. Hey, Dale.

2:59:56SpeakerKill your family.

2:59:58DrIt's great to see you again, Dale. Dale and I were correspondents on Jason's High at Nine News for a while. It was always great to hear. You have such... Thank you so much for joining us today. We're so happy to be here. We're so happy to be here. We're so happy to be here.

3:00:42DrYou couldn't have predicted this, right? Because I don't think that when they passed the 2018 Farm Bill that kind of turned the CBD industry on here in the States that we were going to get to where we are today, which is that in the most cannabis unfriendly jurisdictions, right? You have this pervasive market of unregulated, chemically synthesized, you know, turning the Things that come from CBD hemp, but things that don't come from CBD hemp, like THCP, which is completely synthetic, and some of these other things that don't, they're flying it under the banner of hemp, which Marcus just thinks it's all ridiculous, right?

3:01:27DrBecause in Canada, they actually know what industrial hemp is, right? Industrial hemp. Thank you for joining us today.

3:01:53DrRescheduling, that just seemed to be a whole boondoggle, like sending things to Schedule 3. I think you and I both think that it would just universally fail. You can't put a plant that people can grow themselves into Schedule 3, you know, pharmaceutical. You know, so just curious on what you think about like what's happening with this whole hemp derived game because they keep kicking the can down the road on the farm bill.

3:02:22DrBut ultimately there's lawsuits now. I mean, stuff is coming into California, right? How crazy is that? Would you ever think that intoxicating products made in Tennessee and Florida and whatnot would be shipped into Cali? I mean, so what do you think about what's going on with the whole divide in the hemp derived industry versus regulated cannabis?

3:02:48SpeakerYeah, and I know that you're at the forefront of the science of all of this. So I'm always fascinated to hear and learn from you, Mark. I didn't see it coming that hemp would be contorted into competition for legal regulated cannabis. And the divide between the way that they're regulated is, you know, now it's not just the competition with the illegal or illicit market. It's also now competition with hemp down at the C-Store and, you know, coming through the mail and Amazon or at the bar.

3:03:27SpeakerAnd so there's the part of me that's like, yes, it should be available at the bar right next to the alcohol and Cannabis should be regulated like hemp is really where my mind is starting to head. Anything that the last administration did, the current administration is going to try to do the opposite. And so, yes, the rescheduling is largely died on the vine. The judge is retiring and not appointing another judge.

3:03:55SpeakerHe's just saying we're going to let the DEA handle it because that works so well. I'm sorry.

3:04:01Etienne FontanOh, wait. The latest twist is... The latest twist is that the DA is not going to fund the ALJ position as well. So there'll be no administrative law judge to oversee it. That's, that's this week's twist.

3:04:13SpeakerDismantle the DEA like the Department of Education, motherfucker. Like where's Doge when you need them? Maybe, I don't know. I'm sorry. Is that, yeah. So regulate cannabis like hemp. Tax and regulate cannabis like hemp is where I'm headed because hemp is, You know, fine. This is where it went. But now we've drawn all these lines of like, now there's hemp is fighting against legal cannabis. And, you know, whose side is anyone on as everyone crosses over?

3:04:44SpeakerThe only people that benefit as we all fight each other and pay lobbyists to just walk in, walk out, change the hat of who they're representing, walk back in and say something different. As long as we stay with all of these lines and divisions among The way that this is sold and legalized and decriminalized, but ultimately descheduled, which is going to open up a whole nother Set of issues, right?

3:05:12SpeakerIt's not just interstate commerce. It's international commerce. And this is where Schedule 3 pissed me off is because all it was really going to do was allow pharmaceutical companies to step in and still squash or shit on everybody that's been here before.

3:05:27DrUnless they make an exception, right? So isn't it true that... RFK, the Health and Human Services Secretary, can basically, with one signature on a letter, carve out cannabis from FD&C, kind of like the same way they did caffeine.

3:05:48SpeakerSo caffeine... We could lock into gum at the same time, but all of that is also on faith, and it's about priorities from the law enforcement who is practicing selective prosecution right now and would just as soon Rat fuck a state for the sake of fucking that state as to have an intelligent policy across the board. So like just tiptoeing into reality, we have an opportunity to change up and shake up what the status quo is currently under this administration in a way that no other administration would be willing to just do anything.

3:06:24SpeakerThis is the guy that legalized hemp in 2018. And so like, could something crazy like that happen? Absolutely. Is it likely to happen before the four years are out? Yes. Are there priorities to do so now? No. Did Kennedy back away and stop caring? Yes. This is not his. He's like, not my problem. Don't care. Could it be a signature? Sure. Could it has always been a signature?

3:06:48SpeakerYeah. So it's just who's the last person in the room? How much money do they have? And what are their priorities is really what this is going to boil down to is a bit of the luck of the drawn who's in the room. And that's why I'm trying to remind people There are things we agree on, regardless of how you make your money. There's plenty to go around.

3:07:11SpeakerSo you don't have to keep that person down to make your gold. Grow the market. Like there's definitely ways to make this good for more than just yourself. And I'm not talking to me and I'm not talking to anyone on this line. I'm talking to maybe somebody that's out there hearing me who has those priorities, who think that they can only save themselves and the only way to do that is to keep everybody else out that's not how we win so what do we agree on freedom Open it up for everybody, everywhere.

3:07:45DrWell, some multi-state operators are now playing in both markets. I think Juana, for example, has got like a hemp line, as well as, you know, Juana, their business model is to develop relationships with licensed production partners in various jurisdictions. And you would imagine, again, just thinking about the California thing, like, Like there's lawsuits that are basically against hemp derived stuff coming in to California because I think they're starting to feel an erosion of market share in the regulated markets in Cali.

3:08:29DrAnd, um, I think that, you know, again, it's the proverbial race to the bottom. We're in a commoditized market where cost really matters. And if you could chemically convert CBD into THC at an order of magnitude lower in cost, then you can... Get a cannabis growing license, grow some cannabis, grow some cannabis plants, extract cannabis plants, refine those extracts and down to that same molecule THC, you'll have spent 10 times the amount.

3:09:07DrSo, I mean, to me, Again, like I'm all about the plant. I think we should be deriving these medicines from the plant. Is that if we end prohibition, ultimately that market for recreational synthetics should go away. I said that at CanMed when I was down there in Puerto Rico last month and a couple of doctors came up to me. They're like, you know what? Recreational synthetics are never going to go away.

3:09:35DrPeople always want to chase the dragon. What's the next high? What's the THCP? We heard of a girl who accidentally had ingested a THCP-containing gummy, and she had heart palpitations. They had to take her down to emergency room. They had no idea how to treat this little girl at all. Again, these cannabinoids that have like 30x the binding capacity at CB1, It's just, they're not natural. They're not made from hemp.

3:10:05DrAnd, you know, if people want to buy them, then people are going to want to produce them. And what I can tell you, and you know this already, is that there's big pockets behind this because I've seen short little snippets of little like 10 seconds inside like a 50,000 square foot Uh, uh, uh, warehouse, three pallet racks high with fork trucks pushing finished goods around. I mean, these people got money and they're making money and they're making money right now with the farm bill and the classification, the way things are going right now.

3:10:40DrI don't know if they could change that. Can that be changed? Can you just turn off that market? I think Gavin Newsom's thing where it's like, okay, all hemp derived thing is now against the law. Well, again, there's a lot of collateral damage there that I don't think he fully anticipated. But again, don't you think if cannabis is completely taken, if it was de-scheduled and cannabis provision ended, that this market for recreational synthetics would go away?

3:11:11SpeakerI do agree that it would reduce the demand because right now it is the way. And the more people set up their operations and the deeper ensconced they become in that as being how they make their money and how they compete, the harder it will be to go away. We developed a... A lot of the legal market that you started to see develop when alcohol became legal before prohibition, mead was popular.

3:11:45SpeakerAnd it's not to say like whiskey didn't exist, but it wasn't what everyone went to. But the harder liquor was smaller and easier to smuggle and stronger. And therefore you could, you know, it became And so if we get too far down the road and too many people are set up their business around

3:12:12SpeakerWhat has, like I said earlier, like what has been created that has, where hemp has been contorted into something it was never meant to be. And that includes these chemicals that have been created to compete with THC that do not have the same safety profile as what is naturally occurring. At a certain point, we will be too far gone. Because how does somebody then retract from that business model?

3:12:42SpeakerAnd so we've got to find new ways for people to shift to to make their money where that's not Whether it's frowned upon, like a societal shaming of like, that's not cool anymore because you don't need to do the fake shit. We've got the real shit. But just even going back to like what, you know, military and cops and some of the folks we were talking to before, they turn to cocaine and alcohol and amphetamines because they can pee it out the next day because they can get over it the next day.

3:13:14SpeakerIt's easier. It's simpler. And now that cannabis is legal for some of these folks, like they don't go They don't go back. They keep chasing that feeling. So it's, yeah, we need to hurry up before this does become the norm. Accepted. Okay.

3:13:34Etienne FontanIt's sure wild. It has been accepted, unfortunately. And I think that's the problem is that there's so many gas stations selling these I have heard unfortunately talking to just veterans alone through my veterans group. Some prefer the high they're getting from the fucking gas station shit than unfortunately the cannabis. And that's the problem.

3:14:00SpeakerChrist.

3:14:01Etienne FontanBecause that vacuum has allowed that to exist. I'm afraid what your fear is already existing. And even when and I hope that and I think that's a good anecdote that you put, Dale, specifically how, you know, people did not go back to what they were drinking during prohibition. They weren't necessarily, well, no, I can't say that because when I was in West Virginia, every family I knew had a still.

3:14:26Etienne FontanSo, no, they did still make their own. So, you know, I guess I have to ponder my point. But I would also like to say hi to Jeff Jones, my protege, but also my hero, who would go on to start the Oakland Cannabis Buyers Club, go to the Supreme Court, take it on the fucking chin. And Ryan OU. And I love you, buddy. Good to see you on here.

3:14:51Etienne FontanHi, you're a badass. And plus, you've been doing this 31 years. She said earlier, oh, he's just about at 30 years.

3:14:57Speaker30 years this spring. I meant this last spring. So yeah.

3:15:01Etienne FontanNo, no, no, no. That's 24. He came in 94 to me. So he's over 30 years.

3:15:07Speaker31. She doesn't have that far of recollection.

3:15:11Etienne FontanYeah, well, you had long hair, too, and were much younger. He came to us. He found John Hunt on Primus Tour. John was doing Primus Tour at the time. And Jeff was like, hey, I want to get involved in this cannabis legalization. And he showed up with his best bud, Brian. And Brian, unfortunately, came to play. And we sent Brian home after two weeks because we work in Cannes, right?

3:15:38Etienne FontanWe go out on the streets.

3:15:40SpeakerHe's still experimenting. He became a Hare Krishna.

3:15:43Etienne FontanYeah, I, yeah, he became a Harry Kushner, right? That's right. He didn't leave, but we had to remove him from the official CanFest.

3:15:50SpeakerWent over there.

3:15:51Etienne FontanJeff worked, uh, all the, the dead shows, worked the, the Jerry shows, uh, all the old school shows. We did Horde together, Horde tour together. And, um, yeah, he cut his teeth out on the road as a hardcore activist and, I judge anybody in Cannes by who is at the end of the day, because we're all volunteers, who is standing there loading the van with me. And every goddamn day from day one, Jeff Jones was always standing at the back door of the van when I was getting ready to unlock, and he'd be like, okay, let's do it.

3:16:25Etienne FontanAnd that's the kind of people you need in this world. Who's going to help you load up after it's all done? And you were fucking there every day. So much love and mad fucking respect.

3:16:38SpeakerThat's right. Thank you. He's still there loading the van. Yeah, at the end of the day, just to dovetail back on the conversation you were having as I kind of came in. One of my last conversations with Richard was about Steve Adubato, Head Shop, Gas Station, Cannabis, Hemp, and how he'd went out after years of being in taking care of his mom during the pandemic and had a moment to go out and do some perusing and visited an old head shop of his and bought some over-the-counter stuff like a half ounce and was like, this stuff gets you hot.

3:17:09SpeakerAnd he was slightly had the epiphany that the ball had moved in a different direction from what we all had thought was going to be the outcome. Richard's whole paradigm in Texas when he first set up shop was legal marijuana at the hemp store. And he was pushing this hemp kind of referendum on the local people to say, look, you can have hemp or you can have marijuana.

3:17:29SpeakerThey're the same plant, but you're really going to have one. So let's get to the decision here. And I think what was interesting to him was that it had become so normal. Even in Texas where he hadn't been out for a while. And I had to just remind him, this is all over the country. It's not just in Texas right now, cuz you're CBD legal it's nationwide and it's everywhere.

3:17:51SpeakerAnd I kind of had an epiphany with him that we, we did a, a stepping in the normalization and legitimization by hemp becoming a different animal altogether than medical cannabis and mounted a different path into the normal over the counter kind of trend. And I'm more apt to join the paradigm than I am to try to do resistance because I would rather have hemp over the counter than spice, bath salts, all the stuff that was around when I was a kid at the head shop.

3:18:21SpeakerThey were just terrible. And nowadays with kids that I have, I am so concerned about powdered, adulterated substances that I tell my kids to stay away from everything. They don't take a chance. If there's a concern, if you want to do something, come and talk to me. I'm an overt head. And then they just start pushing away because they do the not like dad kind of thing.

3:18:42SpeakerSo I'm trying to make them not... Experiment. And this is different than when we were kids, I even believe, because I didn't believe the DARE program. I went in and that was the first time I saw some of these drugs was in the DARE suitcase. And none of them in my mind could kill you just from using them. Maybe if you did something wrong while you were on them from intoxication, but the drug suitcase of our day now is so much different.

3:19:06SpeakerAnd I just, I'm really thankful that hemp and or cannabis is more pleasant Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

3:19:40SpeakerYou know, hemp competing with cannabis and, you know, hemp can't, it's the same plant, it's just how we're regulating it. And what Mark was narrowing in on, which are synthetic parables that are different. And that's, I think, where I'm hopeful there's still a line where it's, if we can make it more free, easy, and cheaper to just simply grow cannabis and extract the THC versus grow hemp and convert into something that is not What any of us were fighting for necessarily and doesn't seem to have the same safety profile does seem to have deleterious effects with with patients and otherwise that we can just like again regulate now cannabis like hemp so it's just as easy and cheap to get out there and that's what I think will help reduce What this this nuance of how people are are utilizing and leveraging legal hemp to to convert it into this other chemical substance that is not as not with the same safety profile.

3:20:46BubblemanIt's pretty wild. We did this back in 95. Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:21:14BubblemanYou know, like we were the ones that basically brought Jack's book and we approached our government with a little document that said the trillion dollar crop. And I remember our minister was like, guys, he's like the minister of finance, Harry Enns. He was like, guys, come on, I don't have time for this today. And we're like, oh, just like, just look at the first page, you know, and then he opens the first page and it's the Popular Mechanics 1932 article, billion dollar crop, first time ever used in an economic statement.

3:21:43BubblemanHe was like, okay, this is interesting. Like, okay. And he just got sucked in. And then for three years we grew hemp experimentally. And then in 98, Canada changed the law and created a commercial hemp law so that you could now profit because the experimental laws from 94 to 98, We're experimental. There was no profit allowed. You could do R&D, you could learn, you could do research and science, but you could not profit from the products that you were producing.

3:22:11BubblemanSo 98 was a very big year in hemp in Canada and in the world, really, because we started growing a fair amount of it. Never in like 25 years of growing hemp did we think We could grow this stuff for cannabinoids. It happened so fast in America. The way it happened, I was like, wow, Americans really are a brilliant lot. We're just kind of like the back country Canadians.

3:22:40BubblemanWe're going to grow grain. And don't get me wrong, Manitoba Harvest sold for almost $500 million to Tilray. It was no small feat. And food is a big deal. And I personally think that hemp food has not even cracked the surface Of the importance of being able to grow a protein of that caliber with all the essential amino acids that the body needs but can't produce, including the three that children require for organ and bone development.

3:23:09SpeakerWhat makes me so frustrated, Mark, is that that's the stuff that's gotten left behind, that the food, fuel, fiber, feed to go compete with cannabis, like we already got that. I don't know if I say left behind as much as they were growing in spurts and so fast at times in different arenas. And we have to make up for such lost ground since the Nixonian days of cranking us into shackles that I feel like we're making up for kind of avenues that we didn't have access to.

3:23:38SpeakerBecause when I started, you couldn't have a lab. There was no way to research any of these compounds. One of the only friends that we had with ATN's household was this guy that made oil. And it was, you didn't know how he made it because he didn't want to talk about it.

3:23:51BubblemanThe infamous, mysterious, elusive oil maker. With the dirty fingernails. What were you going to do? Yeah.

3:24:01SpeakerYeah. Yeah. Yeah. We teach to do it differently now. Yeah.

3:24:06BubblemanYes. It's very different now, but I remember those. You know what? In Canada, the real reason for us was infrastructure. So we looked at all the ways, like suddenly we're allowed to grow hemp. It's like, holy shit, well, how do you even grow hemp? It's like, well, you know, like, what are you growing? What do you mean? What are you growing for fiber? Are you growing for seed?

3:24:24BubblemanWell, why? What does that matter? Well, they're totally fucking different and the densities and this and that and the cultivars and the, oh, geez, really, eh? Okay, well, we better look at this. And we realized very early on that, like, Growing for cloth made zero sense because the infrastructure for that is literally in the hundreds of millions of dollars to the billions of dollars on a global scale, billions and billions to just start making cloth out of hemp.

3:24:54BubblemanVersus, you know, the infrastructure that happened since the cotton genie was invented right when the decorticator got buried. The cotton genie got to do all of its maturities and have its investments and its inventions and its creations. And so it exists. The cotton end infrastructure is probably worth hundreds of billions of dollars that's sitting on the planet right now. And we don't have one for hemp. And it's not the same.

3:25:20BubblemanYou can't just throw it into the same machine. It's totally different. And unfortunately that really leaned all of Canada to be like, We're grain producers in Canada. In Manitoba and Saskatchewan, we produce grain. Cargill, one of the largest companies in the world, has their head office in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Why do you think that is? Because there's like two and a half million acres of growable land just in Manitoba.

3:25:49BubblemanAnd then Saskatchewan probably has the same amount right next door. You know, and then you go into Alberta. Sure, there's a bit of beef and this, that you go the other way to Ontario. Anyway, Manitoba has a huge farmland. It produces an enormous amount of grain and grain just made sense. The grain infrastructure that was in place somewhat translated. Sure, we had to create, you know, we had to order the the the tractors and not the tractors, but the harvesting units from Holland.

3:26:18BubblemanThat's the ones we brought in. They had the two big You know, wheels that spun in the front and you could just drive through. I'll never forget the first time I stood there and I watched the Dutch farmer who we flew out because we did a hemp pageant in 1998 in Manitoba at our field. And we harvested five acres of hemp right in front of a whole bunch of like potential investors.

3:26:41BubblemanAnd I'll tell you, when that guy got in that thing, he drove it like a race car. It was like the fastest I'd ever seen a tractor move. And he just like mowed down like a huge portion of this field in such a short period of time. When he hit it, I'd say within 10 seconds, a pollen cloud the size of like a small neighborhood popped off of this thing.

3:27:05BubblemanAnd I'll never forget it because people were like, Some people were really scared. People with asthma and people with like pollen allergies, they instantly had minor anxiety attacks. But then as the hemp pollen came over everyone and went past us, it was so trippy how few people it affected in a negative way. It was kind of like a cat person being around a Maine Coon for the first time and being like, what do you mean?

3:27:29BubblemanThat's weird that I'm not allergic to this cat. It's like, yeah, it's a Maine Coon, dude. These are the good cats. Like you don't have to worry about being... Be allergic to them. They're not going to make you all go puffy, but I'd never seen pollen that big off of a crop. I also was like, in my mind, I thought, fuck, I hope nobody's growing any outdoor weed like within 10 miles of here.

3:27:53BubblemanGot a little blinded by our activism there, but yeah, those were pivotal moments in Manitoba in growing the hemp. And in that same year, you know, shout out to the Bobbies, Paul Bobby in particular, and the whole family of Bobbies who live in rural Manitoba, who created the industrial sort of commercialized process of de-hulling the hemp seeds. Because first thing was first the seeds value, They needed to be dehulled.

3:28:20BubblemanThe seed is just so abrasive and sharp and nasty that it's not something that humans are going to be consuming on a regular basis unless you're doing some crazy fast and trying to like scrape your insides from top to bottom. So the dehulling of the seed and creating economic viability in that process was super duper important. I don't think people really realize cannabis activists we never take like we never celebrate the wins it's like you celebrate it for like a couple hours and it's like all right what else what other atrocities are they forcing upon us we never just celebrate the wins and i'm telling you like people being able to go to the grocery store Thank you so much.

3:29:26BubblemanIt's mind-blowing. There's one from Brindle Farms. Thanks, guys. That was delicious. It really was. So we're making waves.

3:29:38SpeakerYeah, it's having a whole temp in the grocery store and putting a big old pot leaf on it to remind people that it is the same damn plant is...

3:29:50BubblemanIt's an important one because for me, I've always thought the most intense connection I ever put together with cannabis was that I haven't figured out another plant that produces all of the essential amino acids in the ratios that the body needs but can't produce them, that 3 to 1 GLNA to GLA, and cannabinoids. Which is basically breast milk of all female mammalian animals on this planet produced the same thing to nurture and sustain all life on earth.

3:30:25BubblemanI felt like that was a pretty good connection. Like mind blowing.

3:30:31SpeakerTo feed and sustain you both, yes, both physical and mental health and spiritual for many. It's...

3:30:40BubblemanBut also how both prevent inflammation and can reduce inflammation. How crazy that these two incredibly important compounds that are getting produced by this one singular plant That just somehow figured out a way to be like, how are we going to like really attract ourselves? I feel like like cannabinoids and essential amino acids were at the table. They were like trying to figure out how they were going to attract and be successful.

3:31:08BubblemanThey're like, we need to be successful like apples and dogs. We need for humans to like us. And I don't know which one of them stood out, but they were like, I've got it. Aromatic, volatile compounds. We got to bring some of those to the table and then we are laughing. We will succeed for thousands of years. And fuck, I'm telling you, those, that three combination from one single plant is kind of amazing.

3:31:36BubblemanYes, I will preach it, Tony Bologna, in the chat. He's saying, preach it, Marcus, preach it.

3:31:44BubblemanAnyway, I think I'm going to have a bong rip. I got about a half an hour. Welcome, by the way, Jeff. It's really nice to have you here as well. You guys are awesome. I wish you could come back more often and share with us because you do have vast knowledge in the, I don't even know what to call. Sometimes I'm like industry, but it's a community, but it's kind of both.

3:32:03BubblemanIt's just the dichotomy of cannabis. It's like, oh, it's a medicine. It'll stop children from seizing, but also we should sell it at gas stations with alcohol and radioactive tobacco. I'm like, okay, yeah, that's, that's, sounds about right. I'm in.

3:32:22SpeakerJust makes everything a little better. It's not a cure-all, but it tends to make it a little bit better.

3:32:29Etienne FontanIt's a spoonful of sugar. That's why we call it a movement, right? No, it's a movement in the sense of, you know, it's a group of people, you know, trying to do and effect change. And, you know, how has the landscape been? Because you started in California, of course, and then you've had to deal with You know, all these different, as you've moved into different states, these different silos of different 10th Amendment realities, right?

3:32:59Etienne FontanBecause no two 10th Amendments are the same, right? And so how has that been navigating that? I mean, it was challenging enough just as an activist, but now you have to, you're forced to deal with the municipalities. You're forced to deal with, or more importantly, they're forced to deal with you, right? Thank you for joining us.

3:33:43Etienne FontanAnd trying to be professional in those moments as a, you know, because, you know, you're activists yourselves. I've watched you both grow up. Now you're both parents now with children. So that's a whole different set of realities that you have to navigate as well, not including how do you explain to your kids about cannabis, right? Which is a whole other set of as you're both, you know, patients yourselves.

3:34:10Etienne FontanSo how do you navigate all that? I mean, that's got to be stressful at times, right?

3:34:16SpeakerEvery damn day. Yeah, it's, you know, as far as like working with government, it has, it's been both the most rewarding and most aggravating work we've done. And You can't save government from itself. And so I definitely have a good taste in my mouth of the dysfunction that is government and how infuriating some of the decisions that they make of like, you could have made this so much easier for everyone, not just Our industry, but yourselves.

3:34:50SpeakerIf only you had educated yourself a little bit more before you wrote that law or rule or regulation. I also see like good people trying to do the right thing. And just as a citizen, it makes, it gives me a little bit of hope that, you know, whether it's someone I'm talking to and, you know, don't get me wrong, like that some of these agencies have brought True like frustration and hellfire and damnation upon some of these businesses that are really just trying to do the right thing.

3:35:21SpeakerBut a lot of the folks within those agencies are genuinely trying to do the right thing. And they don't know. They don't know what they don't know. And they're trying. And oftentimes they like, I watch them try to protect their businesses or try to protect their patients or try to do the right thing. They're in a machine that's bigger than all of us. And that's why it's so critical to follow the money that it doesn't even matter what, whatever politician local or national says, it's what's in the budget is what they're gonna do.

3:35:55SpeakerAnd so making sure that it's not just what's in the policy, but what's in the budget, whether it's the police budget or, um, where the money goes with the taxes, you know, like that it's, it's reinvesting in the community that you're, you're working towards. So like just following the budget. But we're doing the same thing we've always done, which is, you know, before anything was legal anywhere.

3:36:17SpeakerAnd we're just trying to teach you how to grow really great cannabis, get excellent results and navigate the legal complexities. At first, it was just navigating prohibition and how to not have a negative law enforcement interaction, to know your civics, to know your rights and responsibilities and how to both

3:36:39SpeakerWe're still doing the same thing. It's just how far has your locality or your municipality gone because you're not done yet. There's more to do. It's incremental. And so if you've got medical but not adult use legal, then here's what you do to legalize for all adults. Even if you have medical, do you truly have safe access for all patients? Is everyone on the list? How much do they have to go through to get access to their medicine?

3:37:14SpeakerDo they have to see their doctor once a quarter and pay 150 bucks just for the pleasure of not being arrested? You know, we can do better. How do we get free medicine? To veterans who have served our country the same way we would prescribe them free pills. How do we give them that choice? So wherever you are, whatever level of legal you happen to be, there's somebody that's been left behind and there's still a market to serve and expand.

3:37:41SpeakerSo regardless of what you're in this for, whether you're in it to make money and listen, there's no shame in that. We all have to eat. We all have to pay our bills. We have to take care of our kids. We need a college fund. We need to retire. We need to make money. Whatever you're in it for, if it's just to save the world, altruism, and to help somebody that you love because it's truly a matter of life or death, or you're just a king or queen of the market and you just want to build that business and become a titan, what can we agree on to make it better for everyone?

3:38:17SpeakerAnd the more we... allow safe access and and freedom to access for more and more people the better all of us do and and we can have these conversations with our kids our kids know that this is for mommy and daddy and if they were truly sick if they needed this for medicine then this would be there for them if they needed to step down from opiates or alcohol or cigarettes this would be there for them But it's not for them at 12.

3:38:47SpeakerAnd for the most part, in fact, every kid I know of every like what you want to call us activists or drug legalizers, not one of them actually uses, nevermind abuses drugs. Like the fastest way to get your teenagers to not be interested is to make it cool for yourself. Like that's all I'm saying. Yeah. I would add that I set my expectations very low when it comes to government or agencies.

3:39:14SpeakerI try to push them, prod them, and get them to line in the right direction of the path that we need to see them in. But when they don't do what we need them to do, I don't get too dismayed by it. David Gellman, MD, I have higher expectations, my friends, my family, because they're real to me, where the government has always been this nebulous thing that has not lived in reality.

3:39:36SpeakerDavid Gellman, MD, Even when their own Institute of Medicine came and visited my office back in the 90s and then came out with a report in 99 that said that it was therapeutic, we're just getting the Senate this year to say that veterans can have a Yeah, at least that.

3:40:18BubblemanAnd the aspect of the conversation with kids, you know, and the how that looks to society, how a lot of society perceives that, you know, just while chugging beers and abusing alcohol in every possible way that you could, they have a harsh judgment. I mean, I have three kids myself. I've been pretty open. Definitely getting the license in the early days was incredible. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:41:11BubblemanMy youngest son, Tanner, he has never experienced any type of prohibition. He's just like living in the non-prohibition world. And, you know, I've said it before, he might come into my office and he'll be like, oh, dad, what one's that? That smells so good. You know, he was saying that at like six or seven years old, he'd come into my office and then it becomes the conversation, oh, well, when is it okay to use cannabis with your children?

3:41:40BubblemanWell, I remember being a kid and dad's giving their kids sips of beer when they were like seven and eight years old, probably younger, but for sure seven and eight years old. I personally wasn't giving, I haven't given any of my kids cannabis. Funny enough, I still to this day haven't really used cannabis with any of my kids. My daughter works in a dispensary. I know she smokes joints.

3:42:02BubblemanI know she eats gummies and drinks beverages, but she doesn't really hit concentrates. And I don't, I'm not going to be like, hey, let's eat a gummy together. It's like, but one day I will get to have a dab with her and that'll be super cool. My other son is really into weightlifting and he doesn't use cannabis at all. And then obviously my 11-year-old son definitely doesn't use cannabis.

3:42:25BubblemanHe's just like the happiest person because I think playing is his cannabis. As long as he's playing all the time, doing something epic and fun, he seems to be enjoying life. So that's what he does.

3:42:41SpeakerYou got to, I guess your middle one hasn't had the conversation about how cannabis is a performance enhancing.

3:42:49BubblemanHe doesn't really, he doesn't understand that aspect of it yet. No, when he does, and he's very intelligent, he will find it on his own. It's just the most important thing for me to, for him to find things is to not mention them or I'll put them in a locked door. Right? Like it's his psychology at this point in his life. If I point him towards something, he's going to take that and lock it in a door.

3:43:14BubblemanSo then the things I want him to be exposed to, I'll never mention to him. Then he'll get exposed to them faster. This is the paradox of being a parent. For those of you that are parents.

3:43:32Etienne FontanPirating sounds fucking hard. It's impossible, actually.

3:43:38DrYeah, but when your kids finally, so my kids are 29 and 23. So we got through those years. And yeah, was it always easy? No. Sometimes it certainly was difficult. But I think, you know, going back to the previous conversation, Marcus, where we were talking about bringing kids to concerts and shows and festivals. And so your kids understand the world that their parents live in. And maybe if they see some spun out wook at a fish show, they'll realize how normal their parents are, right?

3:44:17DrIt won't be so difficult for them to understand. Oh yeah, my parents smoke weed. That's what I see going on at these shows. But you know what? We have a nice home. My parents aren't wooks, right? I mean, it just, yeah, I guess when you... When your kids are old enough to size you up as adults in the adult world, I think it's often good for them to understand that, yeah, cannabis is part of who you are and part of your life, but it's not necessarily a bad thing.

3:44:54DrAnd yeah, I guess, you know, those of us who grew up in... Thank you so much for joining us.

3:45:29DrIt's it's kind of interesting like if your daughter only knew right who you were and and like yeah it's like the the the the worlds of people that are now smoking high quality hash because uh her dad and she was she was so mortified in high school that i was bubble man when someone came up to her and said is your dad bubble man and she was just like

3:45:54Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineNo, and like ran away.

3:45:56BubblemanSo she was pretty resentful for a while there. And then she got a job at a dispensary. She was young and excited. And she's working at this dispensary. And Rob Forbes, who was her manager, was like, here's some books I want you to read. And I never asked him if he did this on purpose, but he gave her four books. And in each of those books, there was like a chapter or a story

3:46:21BubblemanAnd so she read them all and was like, she's like, whoa, dad, like I didn't really read. She wrote me this beautiful text and I'll never forget it. I screenshot the text because it was so special to me, but basically just saying, look, you know what? I didn't really realize for the longest time, but now I do. I see who you are. I see what you've done.

3:46:44BubblemanAnd she's like, it's super cool. So like, thank you. And I was like, fuck. Okay, let's just get the next two out of the tunnel there and we're complete.

3:46:54SpeakerHoly shit.

3:46:56BubblemanIt's nice to cross. That was a pivotal moment.

3:46:58Etienne FontanThat had to feel fucking cool, man.

3:47:01BubblemanDude, it was amazing. You can't actually understand how cool it felt because I'm certain this was after four years of her utterly and completely resenting me for being bubble man. Something I clearly couldn't control.

3:47:16SpeakerYou know, and I've heard that actually from more than one parent as well, that their child was like angry with them for, and sometimes like in your case, it was embarrassment. In some cases, it was like the po-po came and took you away from me for my lifetime kind of anger. That is just unfortunately even still happening of like overcoming the, why did you put me at risk?

3:47:40SpeakerHow did you, you know, all of it. So- It's um yeah that's heavy it's it's beautiful to know that that your your daughter recognizes and it's hard for them to comprehend like that feeling of risk or like you know honey this was for you uh when they don't always uh they don't always see that so it's I know I apologized to my mom in my early 20s and again in my early 30s and again after I had a child.

3:48:08SpeakerLike you start to realize, you know, what your parents might have sacrificed in the name of you. And it's beautiful that you guys have come to enjoy it, even though you haven't enjoyed it yet together. Notice there's a yet.

3:48:25BubblemanYes, yes, exactly. Well, I gave her a little Puff Co. I was like, you gotta, here's a little pink Puff Co. And she, her boyfriend loves it. She's like, oh, Mitchell loves it. He's using it all the time. I'm like, I'm like, have you used it? She's like, no, not yet. I'm like, ah.

3:48:44DrWell, and let's talk about that for a second. So there's something about that, that when your kids' peers acknowledge who you are, like I've had that happen to me, Marcus, before where like my son's friends were like, oh, Dr. Mark, Dr. Mark, you know, like it kind of, it elevates them in, or you in their eyes because they, Their peer group is acceptive to who you are, right?

3:49:18DrDoes that make sense? Am I making sense? Right. Yeah.

3:49:22BubblemanYeah.

3:49:23DrI think there's something to that. I really do think there's something to that, right?

3:49:26BubblemanWell, of course, because they're mortified about you in the first place because of their peers, not because they're mortified. It's they do it for their peers. It's like peer pressure, right? It's an invisible thing.

3:49:39DrIt's like, oh, I don't know. I'd be embarrassed. My kid used to steal weed from me, and my son's friends know how good that weed was, so they were just extra super friendly.

3:49:51BubblemanIt's probably like lore among him and his high school buddies, that fucking doctor. Oh, yeah.

3:49:56DrThat PhD weed, bro. We called it the PhD weed. Mr. S gets really good weed, so we're going to be really, really nice to him. Hey, Mr. S, how you doing? Good to see you. Yeah, what's up? Got any more of that weed?

3:50:08SpeakerI feel like this is a cautionary tale right here. I need to start paying attention.

3:50:12BubblemanHow old are your children?

3:50:14SpeakerWell, the oldest just turned, well, the oldest is 14 and a freshman going in.

3:50:20DrOh my God.

3:50:21SpeakerYeah, so I'm like- That's right at the age, Dale.

3:50:25DrThat's the age. I mean, so between 14 and 16, I mean, let's face it, you can't child-proof the world. You have to world-proof the child, right? And so that child is now in a world Thank you for watching.

3:51:00DrWe're going to have a lot of fun. We're going to have a lot of fun.

3:51:22DrAny white powder shit can have fentanyl in it. You know, God, what kind of white powders are they doing, right? At least with a bag of weed or a bag of mushrooms, you could see it and you could look at it and you could smell it. And to me, it's like weed was the worst or was the least thing that I worried about the least. It was the white powders and the pills and ultimately the alcohol.

3:51:45DrI knew that my kids were consuming alcohol. alcohol but i i again like so so what do you do do you just say well not in our house and then you push them into the neighborhood or push them over to the kids uh home where maybe the parents aren't there i told my kids all the time dale i'm like when you step outside this house you're going to be interacting with kids who are a lot less parented than you are right so like You know, as soon as they're out in that peer group, I mean, the thing that you have to do the most is educate them before they go out in that phase.

3:52:26DrAnd they're like 14 is that's that's the year I think I started smoking weed. I think I first saw the definitely. 14. There's a lot of firsts in 14. I think 14 was the first time I made it with a girl. I mean, you have to be able to have all of those educational experiences up to that age of 14 by the time they're going out into the world and interacting with their peer group.

3:52:54Etienne FontanBut there's also more dangers, such as I remember being given a pill, which turned out to be some speed in the eighth grade, right? And now I don't I hate to be the bearer of this news. I don't remember if our friend Marco Pachetti, Jeff, Big Marco used to work security. One day he had a surgery and the doctor wouldn't give him pain medication. So he went into an unsavory place, bought a pill.

3:53:25Etienne FontanAnd overdosed in his car because it had fentanyl in it. He thought it was Percocet. And this guy is a teacher, is a chef. He was teaching kids cooking. I mean, absolutely loved and adored. A great guy. And fortunately, he got caught in some unfortunate things due to the old glove building and stuff like that. And, you know, that's not something we had to necessarily worry about in our grade schools and high schools when we were trying drugs where These normal looking pills are now spiked.

3:53:58Etienne FontanSo how do you navigate those waters, bud? Because that's fucking terrifying on a level.

3:54:04SpeakerIt is fucking terrifying that everything that they used to threaten us with and dare is true today. And that's really what it boils down to is like it can kill you and get you hooked in one shot. And it is that fast. And also it can show up at your doorstep. Like it's not even going to hang out at the mall or who you're Friends with, it's fucking Snapchat.

3:54:26SpeakerIt's like, it's on Instagram. It's at your doorstep in a heartbeat.

3:54:31BubblemanIt's probably on Roblox.

3:54:33SpeakerIt is. And that's the Minecraft, all of it. And it's, it's, yeah, it's that as child predators, it's all kinds of fun stuff. And, and that's really what it boils down to is just continuing to have the conversations and no, it's not even kids that are less parented. It's in some cases, kids that are more parented, but have better drugs in the cabinet than you. Like I don't have opiates in my cabinet because I don't use opiates.

3:54:57SpeakerI don't have liquor. They will never have better drugs in the cabinet than Well, that's because you got good weed, but they do have pills in the cabinet. It's not the weed. It's not the weed that's better. It is the extracts. I have plants growing my back deck that they don't even know what they do. Well, and that's really what we just keep talking. Plants, not pills.

3:55:15SpeakerPlants, not pills. Plants, not pills.

3:55:18BubblemanListen, in five minutes when I end this episode, I'm literally going to plant beautiful hydrangeas all over my house that this woman who's been growing her hydrangea garden for 25 years, I met her yesterday. She was such a trip in her magical fairy-like garden here in Lions Bay. She's just trimming. She gave me a five-gallon bucket. It's a bouquet this wide. It's just these huge flowers of every color that you can imagine popping out.

3:55:48BubblemanI'm like, you are incredible.

3:55:52SpeakerThat's amazing.

3:55:53BubblemanThis is what I get to do in five minutes. I want to thank everyone for coming out today and sharing their time. It was really nice to hear from the Joneses. Now we got to keep up with the Joneses, right?

3:56:06SpeakerIndeed. Thank you for inviting us. They're worth keeping up with.

3:56:11BubblemanAbsolutely. Nice. That's what's up.

3:56:29BubblemanYeah, just really sorry to hear about all these passings, man. I can't even believe it. It's just this, since Skunk Man Sam, it's just been one after another. It's been unbelievable. It's also... I'm telling you, I was on a vacation with Sam one time in Jamaica and our families had rented a house and Rob Clark was there, but he was kind of serious and writing a book and he wasn't really able to hang out.

3:56:53BubblemanBut Dave and I were like kids, you know, we were hanging out like, yeah, let's go get some tings. Let's go get some kilos and make some hash. And at one point we were walking in the jungle and he said to me, he said, yeah. You know, at this point in my life, I'm losing more friends than I'm making. And I remember that being a little bit like every once in a while in my life when someone says something, I'll hear it with an air of hauntingness.

3:57:24BubblemanLike when I saw my wife's uncle go on the podium for his father's death at the funeral and he was crying and breaking down and I was watching it going, fuck, I'm gonna be doing this. This is, I'm having way too strong. And literally my dad died like six months later and I was like falling apart on the podium. So there's been moments in my life where I've had this profound sound of like, oh, that just sounds haunting.

3:57:54BubblemanYeah, that was one of those times for certain.

3:57:58SpeakerWell, and this is a moment to hopefully come together and, you know, keep the memories alive and celebrate what we've learned from these amazing individuals. And so I'll just put out there that November 9th, please hold the date for a celebration of life and legacy of Richard Lee here in the Oakland area. So November 9th, save the date. And we'll have more at oakstradam.com. In the next couple of days to get everybody, we're just working on like the RSVP to know how many people to expect.

3:58:27SpeakerAnd we'll launch all that at oaksterdam.com. So November 9th, and I hope to see as many of you there as possible. And I'm just grateful for your time and attention to all of, you know, both fun and serious subjects today. It's been really great to be, it's like old times with new friends and new times with old friends. I'm grateful to be here. Thank you, ATN, for inviting us.

3:58:48SpeakerYeah.

3:58:51BubblemanAwesome. Yes. Thank you, Etienne. You always invite the best folks. He's a keeper. Yeah. He's like, well, what he is, he's like, he's a 90 micron bag. And that's all he catches. He just filters through the community and catches the 90 you heads. And I'm just like, then he brings them to the table. He's like, what about this? I'm like, yes, absolutely. Exceptional. Let's do that.

3:59:13SpeakerOld man humor. Awesome.

3:59:18BubblemanVery good. Very good. Well, thank you, everybody. Thanks, our sponsors. Thanks. Thanks both to Puffco and the Press Club. I didn't give away anything from the Press Club. I took a little break, but shout out to them and their awesome bubble collecting spoon. How fucking cool is that?

3:59:33Etienne FontanThese kits that fit in mason jars. They've got a small one and a medium. I got one of these and they're great for soaking your stuff in mason jars. They have this crate hook on the end as well as this little piece on the top. Brilliant idea stuff. So great stuff, Press Club.

3:59:47BubblemanI wonder if he got that from D-Nails Universal Heater because that's the outside. I got to ask him, but that is a very cool thing. So shout out to those guys as well. Thank you, Dr. Mark and Etienne and Brian from Best Friend Farms. Brian, you have homework. I want you to tour your garden. And make some nice two to three minute clips on your phone sideways, right?

4:00:07BubblemanNot like this. We want it in landscape. And just tour your beautiful gardens and tell us all about the gas mask and the this, that, and the other thing and all the resins and the flavor profiles and exactly how you do it, dude. That's what I would love to see next Sunday from you. Thanks, Colin, who had to scooty oot and anyone else that I may be forgetting because I did chain smoke dabs the entire show.

4:00:32BubblemanAnd now I'm going to go plant hydrangeas. It is happening. Thank you, everyone. And may the full mouth bless your bowl. Yeah, sooner than later. Sooner than later. All right, everyone.