Flavo-Alkaloids and New Cannabinoid Science

0:14BubblemanAll right, recording has started. Streaming has started. Welcome, everybody.

0:19SpeakerWelcome, everybody, to Hash Church.

0:25BubblemanSeason 11, episode 33. How about that for an episode? How about that for an episode? I want to make sure that I'm connected here. Give me two seconds because my headphones are not connected. What the hell I'm getting this message from? There we go. All right. I'm connected. Wonderful. Oh, okay. Well, let's start as always. Thanks, everyone, for showing up. I see the whole group of regulars in the chat, and it always puts a smile on my face.

1:00BubblemanTony Nagg and Tam Up and John Maddox, Doug Tinsley and Borrow Josh, and of course, Bingo Lombardi. Bingo Lombardi holding it down in Hashchurch. For the whole crew. Appreciate you, brother. Anyway, let's get to shouting out our sponsors. I want to shout out the Press Club for just being an awesome sponsor, trusted by top hash makers from around the world since 2016. The Press Club really is your one-stop shop for award-winning solventless gear.

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3:32BubblemanThe commitment to excellence, making them a trusted go-to for enthusiasts and professionals alike. Seeking top-tier hash extraction results? www.bubblebag.com Throw in hashchurch10 for your code and you will get a 10% discount. So how about that? Let's bring a couple of dudes into the room here, shall we? Looks like Caleb and Etienne are pretty gung-ho this morning and they're showing up on time. I like that. I like that a lot.

4:03BubblemanWelcome, gentlemen, to our Sunday congregation. Good morning, morning, morning. Yes, isn't it, though? Good morning.

4:15Etienne FontanHow are we doing today?

4:19SpeakerWe're doing good. You know, another day in paradise.

4:23Etienne FontanJust dealing with more cannabis stuff and trying to figure out what's happening here in America. Yeah, you know. How are things going up there in Canada? A lot of fires up there right now, eh?

4:37BubblemanYeah, I'm not sure what's going on. We got... We got an entire month of rain in Vancouver yesterday or the day before. It was 96 centimeters, I think, that fell in rain yesterday. So we haven't gotten... You know, it started with us watching California burn. And I don't know if that was 10 years ago or when that started, but it was like, oh, whoa, Cali's burning. And it was every summer, a new fire, new fires, more fires, fires, fires.

5:12BubblemanAnd then... It started happening here. And I don't know if it's been five plus years that it started happening here. You guys lost the town. Well, like the next season, we lost the town. Lytton, the town of Lytton, which is about four or five hours from my house, burned to the ground. And I mean, the entire town, every building is gone. It's been three years, actually, since that happened.

5:35BubblemanAnd I think they've got six or seven buildings that they're now trying to rebuild out of a town, an entire town. So, yeah, I'm not sure. The water, you know, our province just burns every year now consistently. There's fires all the time. I think there's an out of control one on Vancouver Island right now, which kind of sucks because my son is about to do the West Coast Trail.

6:02BubblemanWhich is a northern to southern tip of Vancouver Island Trail. It's about 75 kilometers long. And I think it takes about six or seven days to hike that if you have a pretty decent flow. So hopefully those fires don't affect him. But apparently there's fires on Vancouver Island burning out of control, as I'm sure there is in California. I don't pretend to know what the hell's going on with the planet.

6:32BubblemanCyclical cycles of weather and temperature and moisture influxes and defluxes over the course of thousands of years. I hear lots of people screaming about, you know, Global warming, but I remember being a young kid and they told us it was global cooling. So in about 40 years, they went from the world is turning into an ice cube to all the global ice caps are melting and we're destroying the planet in the opposite way that we told you you were destroying the planet so and then these are the very people that tell you that cannabis has no medicinal benefit so it's like it's hard to believe them about anything when they're just lying bold facely to you in your face about something you absolutely unequivocally know is true this is where my sort of I don't want to say, well, maybe distrust.

7:27BubblemanMy distrust with the medical establishment has bubbled. Now, I always say to people, if I tore my arm off today, you know I would be at the hospital. The emergency crews, those people would do an incredible job. They'd put my arm back on. My arm would probably work still, which is incredible when you think about it. But for almost anything else, I just wouldn't go there. You know, these are the same people that were like, no, no, you got to put like nine masks on and get seven boosters.

7:55BubblemanAnd so I just, yeah, I don't know what to say. But welcome. How about that? Ryan, welcome.

8:03SpeakerI trust the medical industry. My family all works in the medical industry. So I have a very different perspective. But

8:11BubblemanWell, absolutely. And everyone's different in regards to where they're coming from. You know, like my family, my father was a first responder. So he was kind of involved in the medical industry before you get to the medical industry. My dad was kind of one of those guys that would show up at the car accident or if you fell off your house and landed on your fence. My dad's the guy that would pull up and pull you off the fence.

8:32BubblemanAnd So, you know, kind of get you ready to get to the hospital. And I've had pretty good, you know, for the most part, I've had pretty good. I've had friends die at the hospital, unfortunately, from mistakes that the hospital made, but they're human too. You know, when I make a mistake, sometimes my 45 and my 25 get mixed. Thank you for joining us.

9:19BubblemanWhich was a super bummer because he was super dynamic and awesome and amazing. But yeah, sometimes that's how it goes, right? There's human error in this world. And if you got a serious job like that, you're here. Your human error is a little bit more serious. I've had conversations with Dr. David Allen because he's, you know, he's told me about holding like 18 year old kids hearts in his hands.

9:40BubblemanLike, I'm just like, oh, my God, dude, like, how do how did you do that? How did you? Where in your being did you have the confidence to cut someone's chest out? And then I can't remember the name of the tool, but it like cracks your rib cage open so you gain access to the chest.

9:58Etienne FontanIt's super gnarly. And he's just like, yes, man. What's that? Thank you so much for joining us.

10:24Etienne FontanI was looking at a picture the other day of this doctor dressed as a cigarette passing out cigarettes in an emergency room. Okay, you know.

10:35BubblemanI'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV. Remember Marcus Welby?

10:39Etienne FontanThat's how it used to be. Remember, it's called practicing medicine. Nobody's got mastered motherfucking medicine degrees. You know what I'm saying? Unfortunately.

10:47SpeakerBut, you know, they're still doing great things.

10:50Etienne FontanRemember, they thought marijuana was crazy until we kind of told them, no, it's not. And now it's an actual nursing thing. Actually, I was at the VA the other day and got to point out to, you know, my doctor is like, yeah, it's a specialty now with the American Nursing Association. Here's the book. And, you know, she was like, oh, hold on, and pulls it up on Amazon and orders it.

11:12Etienne FontanOkay. So, you know, they're open to change. They're open to education. It's just... Yeah, you know, my friend Richard Lee was lost recently due to, you know, medicinal malpractice. You know, he'd still be alive today, but, you know, something happened. And that's just how it goes, unfortunately, sometimes.

11:33SpeakerSo you got to remember, it wasn't that long ago that there were stations along the side of the Thames River in England. That had like little fires with smoke so that you could take smoke if you found someone drowning in the river and you could literally blow smoke up their ass.

11:49Etienne FontanThat's right.

11:50SpeakerThey had bellows for that, correct? Exactly. And they thought that that would revive people, right? And that's where the expression to blow smoke up someone's ass comes from. So we have made in the medical industry have made an incredible amount of progress in the last 200 years. And we continue to make progress. I mean, even in, you know, in medical research, I follow this lady named Danny Beckman.

12:15SpeakerShe's this incredibly young researcher that works in the COVID space. And, you know, some of the COVID researchers have showed this week or published this week that the virus damages the mitochondria in the heart. And that's what's leading to all these, you know, problems with people that have, are having heart issues after COVID. And yeah, like the power of science allows us to keep learning and, you know, from these lessons we learn, we go on and make better medicines and better practices.

12:52SpeakerSo I don't want to... Slowly but surely. Well, yeah, we, you know, progress comes slow, but we are getting there and the tools that we have in science and medicine now are allowing us to make incredible progress.

13:07BubblemanSo it's just a crazy history. When you look at like the medical history, it's like a lot of it comes from Nazi Germany and IG Farben, a pharmaceutical corporation that had to be disbanded by Nuremberg. And then they became Merck and Bayer and all these other pharmaceutical companies from Germany. It's like, holy fuck, they created Zyklon B to gas the Jews. The history of it is rough.

13:34BubblemanThe Rockefeller history of turning petrochemical products into medicines.

13:37Etienne FontanYou're not going to like what happened to Mercedes and BMW then.

13:41BubblemanNo, dude, all of it is a crazy... Humans have the most insane history and not just... You know, pharma by any means, but pharma is one of the very unique. You read about IG Farben, read about what that company did, read about the trials in Nuremberg when that company had to be disbanded, and then read about how it was so smart they just created four of the largest pharmaceutical companies from the disbandment of IG Farben.

14:08BubblemanI read about that company quite a bit, and it was... Some of those amazing medical advances that you speak of, Ryan, became possible from operating on prisoners without, they would take out their eyes, you know, Joseph Mengel, you can read all about him, what he did. And then Project Paperclip, which of course people thought was a conspiracy in the beginning, but it was just smart thinking that America didn't wanna let the Nazi scientists and all that invaluable information disappear.

14:39BubblemanSo they brought thousands of them to the US to sort of, for rocket propulsion technology. They brought a lot of rocket scientists. They brought a lot of medical doctors who had done harsh, crazy experiments of like just taking people's arms off, taking people's eyes out. A lot of Western medicine's advancements came out of that timeline, which is, uh, holy fuck. How do you sweep that under the rug?

15:07Etienne FontanWhat do you see about the Tuskegee experiments and what they did all throughout, you know, the United States back in the 30s and 40s with eugenics and shit like that? We've got a fucked up history, no doubt. But, you know, fortunately, yet unfortunately, all those experiments help us today, right? You know, as shameful as it is, you know, they used to do it on animals, but then they moved it on, you know, definitely to humans.

15:32Etienne FontanAnd then they went back to animals and people were unhappy about hurting animals. So, you know, now we're back to humans again. Because even when I was in college, I mean, how many of my friends, I cannot tell you because they needed quick money. Where did they go? They go to these pharmaceutical companies and do experiments. There's small pharmaceutical companies all over the United States, people, and you can literally volunteer your own body.

15:58Etienne FontanI've watched multiple of my friends go and use their bodies over multiple weekends through these drug experiments just to pay for college. You know what I'm saying? It's fucked up.

16:10BubblemanThat's wild. That's definitely wild. I mean, it's a choice. They're not fate forcing you. But I also knew a guy. He was kind of a semi-homeless guy, a little bit mentally ill, suffering from some damaged brain action. And he also was doing it all the time. And he was doing it as often as he could. I think you're only allowed to do it like three times a year or something.

16:31BubblemanThere's like a four-month period for these things that he was doing. But he was just always on. He'd just have this crazy rash on the side of his face. He'd be like, what the fuck's wrong with your face? He's like, ah. I don't know, man. I took this new drug and it's given me this rash. And I was just like, dude, there's got to be a better way.

16:48BubblemanLike, go get a job at the gas station, bro. Like, this is not the way to make money. What? How you doing today, Caleb?

16:58SpeakerWhat medicines are you using, Caleb? Tell us.

17:02BubblemanYeah, tell us exactly what you're using. I want to know if you're a healthy person. I'm just joking.

17:08SpeakerJust this beautiful, regeneratively grown flower right now. Exactly.

17:11BubblemanHe's like White Thorn Rose for me and all my illnesses.

17:16SpeakerI'm kind of right in between. My family also works in the hard sciences. And then I also haven't been in the doctor's office in a while. So I very much feel both of what y'all are saying, Marcus and Ryan.

17:32Bubblemanyeah i still go to the doctor i just don't go very often like when i broke my collarbone i went to the doctor you know and it was funny because they did nothing except give me nitrous oxide and tell me that it'll probably set the right way and go home bones are generally like that unless you've dislocated them in weird ways or you've broken them in a really terrible way where it's you know ripped into a artery or some other type of muscle or tendon they they heal like Really, just almost perfectly without much...

18:04BubblemanIt kind of got me to the point like we are truly... The amazing, you know, like doctors are amazing when they help us point us in the right direction. And there are some great healing practitioners, I'll call them. Keep in mind, I do this show with Dr. David Allen. And if there's anyone that talks shit more about the medical establishment, it's Dr. David Allen. And I think it's because he comes from the establishment.

18:28BubblemanHe lived it. He breathed it. He saw it. He saw the way they went after him. He saw the way they tried to destroy his life. It was fucking insane.

18:58BubblemanI mean, holy shit. This is like such a kind man. This is a man who just saved lives. You're a heart surgeon. You're basically saving lives. You're saving people from heart attacks and gun wounds and all these different things. And they just couldn't get him out fast enough because of his, really because of his perception and his views on cannabis, which I thought was a little bit insane, but-

19:23Etienne FontanThat happened to Dr. Todd McCorea, Dr. Mike Alcalay, you know, Dr. Frank Lucido and others in California after they passed Proposition 215. They actually held a press conference going after these doctors, you know, basically saying, you know, how dare they do that? Because there was only, again, early on, there was only a handful of doctors brave enough to be writing recommendations for medical cannabis. A bunch of people in the medical...

19:51Etienne FontanThank you for joining us.

20:11Etienne FontanWhere if you don't use, you know, if you don't go with our traditional medicine, you talk against, you know, the medicines that we have, then they will go after you with full gusto to the point where those doctors had to sue the government And one off the case, just to allow you to continue to talk to your doctor about medical cannabis, just to even talk to your doctor, just to have that private conversation.

20:36Etienne FontanAnd they had to fight for that, you know, because that's how strong they went after to shut them down and kick them out, right? They did not want them. To have the influence that they would eventually have and spark the change that they would eventually spark, right? These were the geriatric folk of the established hierarchy of medicine. And it's taken a whole lot of doctors and nurses and some losing their jobs Thank you for joining us.

21:21Etienne FontanThank you for watching.

21:41Etienne FontanDr. Mark Scaldo, you wouldn't be able to speak what you're speaking about, right? If it hadn't been for those giants who stood up and said, fuck you, fuck no, I'm not going to put up with this because of their Hippocratic Oath, right? Yeah, absolutely.

21:56SpeakerTo do no harm. Government is the word, the key word in that whole rant because it's like government pressure that's putting political pressure on the medical system. It's a political agenda about control and power and money. It's not about anything else.

22:10BubblemanIn that instance, but like say, okay, what about the opioid epidemic and all the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of people dying from these drugs? Is it the government making those drugs available or is it these pharmaceutical companies?

22:25SpeakerThat's power and money. Again, you'll want to blame the system, but that's what you're really talking about is a human trait, power, control, and money. And it influences all systems, not just the medical system.

22:38BubblemanYeah, it just it's like if you look at power, the systems that it infiltrates, like veterinarian and human medicine are two of the worst. And you talk to anyone that goes to the vet and they're just like, oh, God, I got to go to the vet. It's like, oh, yeah, you go to the vet. The building's brand new. There's a couple of Porsches parked out front. Those will be the vets.

22:58BubblemanAnd then you go in and they tell you that it's going to be $1,800 to put your dog down, but they'll give you a nice little paw thing where they push it into his little... And it's just like, oh my God, why is the veterinarian system so evil? You know, they're putting my dog down. My kids are crying. We're all in the room. They're about to put the dog down and the guy comes over.

23:15BubblemanHe's like, excuse me, sir. And he's holding a credit card thing. He's like, would you mind paying before we... And then my kids are there. I'm just like, dude, what the fuck?

23:27Etienne FontanWhere's the compassion in this experience right now?

23:30BubblemanBut yeah, it's... You can be blind looking at it both ways. You can be blind looking at it like it's some big conspiracy and they're out to get you. You can be blind looking at it like they're there for you all the time and they're basically there to only help. I think it's more of a middle ground between the two things. I think there's incredible people in medicine.

23:53BubblemanI think nurses are absolutely... Angelic people, you know, and it's another thing that I'm upset about medicine is that how doctors and nurses engage and how doctors look down on nurses when I'm like, holy shit, why are you looking down on this nurse? They're literally doing 90% of the work there. They're the ones that are the human aspect of this while the doctor, you know, kind of has to remove himself very much the way my sister and my mother.

24:20BubblemanThank you for watching.

24:42BubblemanThe intense energies. And so she just has to like, ma'am, ma'am. It's like the other person's literally being murdered on the phone while this conversation is happening, but she's gotta be, she's gotta be robotic. It's not gonna serve her to become human in that moment and get all nervous and anxious and lose her mind. Hey, Dr. Allen, you were just talking about medicine.

25:05SpeakerNever, never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity. Ignorance, actually. Yeah.

25:14BubblemanYeah, it's the truth.

25:15Etienne FontanThere's a... Well, people forget, you know, that these people are human, right? Remember, we said it's called practicing medicine and, you know, people are people, right? They're dealing with their own chaos in life at the same time because it's their job, right? And it's very fucking stressful, you know? I cannot imagine... How many lives have you saved, Dr. Allen?

25:35SpeakerTell us about saving some lives. Give us the other side of the story. More than the fingers I got on my hands. Well, there you go.

25:46BubblemanThat's commendable. Well, like I said, if my heart exploded today, I would go and try and get someone like you to save my life. But on the flip side, I could just take care of myself, eat a good diet and not have a heart attack. And then I won't need you in the first place. So that's kind of the pathway that I'm taking. I'm trying to make it so my heart doesn't explode.

26:09BubblemanAnd it's a lot of work. I mean, I'm sure it's a lot easier to just live a terribly unhealthy life and show up at the doctor when it happens.

26:16SpeakerThat actually happens. People's hearts do explode.

26:20Etienne FontanReally? Yeah.

26:21SpeakerYeah.

26:25Etienne FontanI'll trust you on that. And then you just got to sew it up?

26:30SpeakerWell, yeah, it's pretty involved. They usually die before you get them on a table. But there's something that's actually even more scarier than that. And that's a ruptured abdominal aortic aneurysm. Jesus. And so the aorta gets enlarged in your belly. And it pooches out. And sometimes you get the walls get so thin it busts. And I've seen people that had these things rupture in the emergency room and take them to surgery.

27:10SpeakerAnd what happens is they bleed into their abdomen a certain amount. And then the pressure in the abdomen gets bigger and bigger and their belly swells. And after a while, the blood doesn't have enough pressure to put it in the abdomen. And so you take the patients to the operating room and you prep and drape them and get everything ready. And you get a couple cell savers going at the same time and you open their belly.

27:41SpeakerAnd as soon as, and you're resuscitating them all the time. And as soon as you open their belly, All that blood and pressure inside their abdomen squirt out and the blood pressure drops to zero. And then what you got to do is you got to go in and you take this instrument or anything you can find actually, you can use your hand and you collapse the aorta above where the rupture is And all while your assistants are sucking out the blood.

28:23SpeakerAnd then you got to put a clamp on the aorta above where the rupture is. And then you got to put clamps on the iliac arteries that go down into the legs and then go in and open the aorta and take out all the blood clot and stuff. And so a graft in proximal and then two distal grafts. It's a horrendous procedure. It makes you sweat a lot.

28:54BubblemanJesus Christ. How many hours does that take you?

29:00SpeakerI've done several of these.

29:02BubblemanIs it like a 10-hour operation?

29:04SpeakerIt's a six-hour operation.

29:08Etienne FontanOn average, it's six hours.

29:10BubblemanSo I mean, oh, sorry, go ahead.

29:13Etienne FontanWell, no, from slicing them open to, I guess, sealing them back up, right? Yeah.

29:20SpeakerWhat is the average success rate of something like that? Oh, hell, I don't know. Unfortunately, they rarely make it to the operating table.

29:30BubblemanYeah, the explosion just puts them down. You were involved for a long enough time and you're an empathetic person. Like to me, we just need something else infused into this medical system that we have called empathy, like something a little more like, do you feel that the business aspect of it just leaned into the empathetic aspect of it? Like the hospital, obviously, like you're making the hospital money.

29:57BubblemanIs the hospital more concerned with you saving lives, or is it more concerned with you making sure that you bring in a good amount of operations and cash?

30:06SpeakerWell, it's a business, and all businesses have the first primary goal, aside of everything, every other consideration, their first goal is to bring in bucks.

30:19BubblemanFor the shareholders.

30:20SpeakerDamn every other consideration.

30:24BubblemanSee, that's the part that maybe if they somehow altered that slightly, I always thought that medicine, it's like a dangerous game to make it so profitable. You know, when that guy, what's his name, Screlly, bought that pharmaceutical company, and I can't remember the medication that he had, but he was like, oh, I'm just like, why are we selling this for $26? Let's sell it for... We're going to talk about some of the things that we're going to talk about today.

30:48BubblemanWe're going to talk about some of the

31:02BubblemanEven though they're upset that Trump has felonies, they're like, it's fine that Pfizer has like 130 felonies about lying about the efficacy of their drug. They trust that company. But this smaller guy, they look at him like, oh, what a piece of shit to do that. And it's like, well, every pharma company is doing that. They're literally attaching a thousand X to the price of their drug before they sell it.

31:26BubblemanSomeone was telling me recently, oh, it was my friend, Sean, his wife, Beata. She's a Hungarian woman that lives in my neighborhood. She's had hepatitis. I don't know if it's B or C, but she had hepatitis B or C. She ended up into this experimental thing and they got rid of her hepatitis. Like she no longer has hepatitis. Now, this woman was living as healthy as you could live with hepatitis.

31:51BubblemanShe was living with an incredibly healthy diet, really taking care of herself. He told me recently she went and took these, it was two pills a day for 90 days. Guess what the cost of the pill was? One of them.

32:07SpeakerWhat pill?

32:09BubblemanIt was something for hepatitis. I could find the name of the drug. It was $2,500 per pill. So it was $5,000 a day for 90 days that she had to take these pills. Now, luckily, we're in Canada. So she didn't have to pay that money. It ended up getting paid for her. But holy Christ, what about all the people that are suffering from this liver disease? It just seemed like the most, like there's no way that drug costs that much money to make.

32:35BubblemanAnd it's connected to like increasing the length of someone's life. It just seems so crazy that that could just be based on, oh, you can't afford it. Well, you know, you can always die of liver cirrhosis. It's like, holy shit. Seems so extreme to me, but yeah.

32:54SpeakerWell, it seems like that industry would be Trying to suppress any evidence that cannabis oil can help hepatitis A, B, or C. And there's indications that cannabis oil can help in all forms of liver disease.

33:15BubblemanSo are you talking about the cannabinoid or the essential amino acid oil?

33:23SpeakerJust cannabis oil.

33:25BubblemanLike cannabinoid oil, like CBD and THC.

33:29SpeakerYeah.

33:30BubblemanOkay. I figured, I figured, I just know that, you know, that this hemp seed oil has a lot of benefit in health as well. And I can only imagine what it does for your health. Here's the craziest thing. We know that hemp seed oil contains all of the essential amino acids that your body needs, but can't produce. We know that tons of people are amino acid deficient, which generally makes you endocannabinoid deficient.

33:55BubblemanHow many people on this panel consume hemp seed or hemp seed oil daily?

34:01SpeakerI wish I did.

34:03BubblemanMan, I'm telling you, in the cannabis space, it's a low number. I'm always surprised.

34:07SpeakerWhat you're saying, Marcus, what you're saying is cannabis, even the seed, is a nutraceutical and should be in the diet of all humans and animals because it regulates your immune system.

34:22BubblemanWell, I mean, you said that more than I, but sure, that's what I'm saying, Dr. Well, that's what Jack was talking about early on.

34:30Etienne FontanAnd he was teaching us all that, you know, it was a very nutritious seed and that it had omega three, six and nine. And, you know, whereas you would get that from different types of, you know, usually, you know, salmon oil, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah. He was very much a proponent in educating us early generation on, you know, what the benefits of, because when I was 20 fucking something, I didn't give a shit about fucking seed oils or, you know, what was that?

35:01Etienne FontanI just ate what was available. My dumb ass was eating fucking Snickers and fucking Coca-Cola. Fuck yeah!

35:07SpeakerIn college, right? America!

35:10Etienne FontanLiving off of it, right? And then going down and eating the hot dog over at the dairy mart, you know? Fuck yeah. I was hungry. I need a little bit of protein, right? And then I was wondering, why do I feel like shit?

35:20BubblemanI did all of that. I did all of that. I had such a sensitive stomach too. Growing up in Winnipeg was rough for me because I just spent my earlier years. I'd eat pepperoni pizza. I'd be sick. No matter what I ate, hot dogs, I'd be sick. Hamburgers, I'd be sick. McDonald's, sick. Wendy's, sick. I just get sick every time I ate. I didn't realize that maybe for me, a different diet, you know, and I'll never forget my partner, Martin Moravchik, one of the founders of Manitoba Harvest being like, you know, asking me when we were super high on mushrooms, because all I ate was meat.

35:55BubblemanI just grew up on meat and potatoes. I didn't know. I didn't know what the word vegetarian meant. I remember that. I remember like vegetarian. What the fuck is that? It's like someone that just eats vegetables. I thought it was the most insane concept ever. And I remember my dad saying it at the table one day, he's eating Brussels sprouts and he's like, oh my God, I could be a vegetarian.

36:13BubblemanAnd I'm just like nine years old going, what's a vegetarian? Like that's how much of a meat culture I grew up in. And not a, you know, it's unfortunately in a sense that I kind of learned this 30 plus years ago that meat wasn't really so good for me because it was all the lowest quality meats. Like I never ate a good piece of meat in my life.

36:34BubblemanOur family ate cheap meat.

36:35SpeakerLet me ask you a question.

36:41SpeakerYou know, there's this meat allergy from tick bites. You know about that, right?

36:47BubblemanI have heard of this. Yes.

36:48SpeakerNow, do you only have the stomach issues or do you have hives and itching issues?

36:55BubblemanNone of that. Although funny enough, back in the day when I first started eating salmon, I would get like itchy gums. I would get like an itchiness in my mouth from salmon, which was unfortunate because it was literally one of the first meats I started eating again. And I really quite liked it. And it wasn't so bad. It would just make it itchy between like my back molars a little bit.

37:18BubblemanAnd I just kind of be like, all right, that'll go away soon enough. Thank you so much for joining us.

37:46BubblemanPeople need to have different diets. I've met people that like eat nothing but meat. They just eat nothing but meat and they are totally healthy looking. They're eating good meat. They're not eating like tortured flesh that's like, you know, being tortured on its way to the slaughterhouse and adrenaline soaked flat like they're eating good free range, antibiotic, steroid free, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that obviously makes a difference.

38:10BubblemanIt's the same if I eat like really like Monsanto soaked glycophosphate, you know, vegetables like that's not going to be the healthiest version. Food is food. Get the best version of it into you that you can. I support, you know, pretty much whatever, whatever the diet that people want to have from my vegetarian perspective. once again and it kind of feeds into this medical thing like the medical thing just got so big it's there's there's a lot of bad that leans out of that that is just hard to ignore and and when it comes to food it's very much the same thing you know like it's a it's a it's a very tough thing to explore The animal business, the business of slaughtering 240 billion animals annually, 77 billion chickens.

39:00BubblemanLike this is fucking madness. This is vampirism. And it's literally the lowest. It's like I see cannabis people all the time who are like, oh, I only smoke the best. It's like, really? But you eat schlop. Like you're literally eating the worst fucking food you could put in your body, but you're bragging about how clean your cannabis is. Bro, holy shit, you know, because there's some there's some nasty things in our food industry the same way.

39:26BubblemanIt seems like all these big industries that get so big, it's like obviously the food industry could probably be a little more conscious. I don't pretend to know how to feed every single person on the on the planet that isn't massive industrial complex farming, monocropping and all of that. You know, I can, it's easy for me to sit at home on my golden throne and judge it and say that's not good for you and not support it.

39:51BubblemanBut do I have a system that I can implement to replace that and feed the world's people? No, I don't. I don't.

39:59SpeakerI personally only eat artisan tortured meat.

40:03BubblemanOh, nice.

40:04SpeakerYeah.

40:05BubblemanThere's a lot of people, but the funny thing is, is that statement, like a ton of people are eating, you know what I mean by tortured meat, right? Like the meat is not being killed in a sort of, they build the adrenaline. And there's a woman by the name of Temple Grandin who's changed this an enormous amount. She's an autistic woman. And when she was younger, I believe she grew up on a farm and she would go into this thing That would like hold the cows tight and it would make her feel good.

40:34BubblemanLike when this thing closed in on her, she liked the feeling and she started looking at these cows and she would see, wow, these cows are really upset when they're walking into the into the slaughter. They'd have them on this particular ramp and the ramp was at too high of an angle and the ramp had holes in it. So their hoofs would get this created anxiety in the cows.

40:54BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

41:24BubblemanYou know, that doesn't necessarily create all that adrenaline prior to the killing of them. Yeah. Yeah. Temple Grandin, check her out. She's pretty wild. And the movie that she did is really cool because of course you've just got all these men and they're laughing at her and they're like, what, you know, like they can't see her vision that she's just like, look, if we just make it easier for these cows and we lower the, the, the, the steepness of the, And we get rid of the holes.

41:55BubblemanAnd she just did little certain things. You know, I think she insulated the sound of the cows that went in that were getting, you know, the bolt to the head or whatever, because that was causing anxiety and stress in the cows hearing the scream of the other cow and the shot of the of the bolt into the head. All these things, she just reduced their anxiety. And to me, I truly believe that eating flesh that hasn't been stressed to the point on pumping adrenaline into its muscles has to be better for you.

42:29SpeakerIt just absolutely- This is an important concept.

42:31BubblemanYeah. I mean, maybe I'm fucking a delusional hippie nut bar. Like that's totally on the table too. But it's how I feel. It's how I feel. Man. Yeah.

42:47SpeakerWell, to quote, was it Homer or was it Bart Simpson that said, you don't win friends with salad?

42:54BubblemanI mean, fuck, dude, I'll tell you. You could win my wife's friendship with a salad. She is a salad fiend. But I feel where you're coming from. Maybe ribs is a better, you know, maybe tearing the ribs out of some poor innocent animal and feeding those to your friend is a better way to You know, vibe out.

43:14SpeakerWhen we systemize these things, these industries, we make them into big for-profit industries. Yeah. We forget, you know, it becomes about efficiency and profit and power again. 100%. Well, cannabis. Yeah, it's no different.

43:30BubblemanAnd none of us like it with cannabis. There's very few people in this room that are pro. You know, I don't mind cannabis being big. I always appreciated when Dave would say I could grow the highest quality cannabis in a field like I could grow 10 acres and it could be top quality. You don't need to only grow four plants for top quality. So I know that that's the truth, but you're right.

43:53BubblemanWhen you systemize, it's the systemization of, I mean, think of what medicine used to be before we got the, you know, you'd have the doctor, he could come to your house and he's like the fat, he'd know the names of your kids and he'd know your, it was kind of like, Back in the day, if you grew up on an island out in British Columbia, you'd know the cop.

44:12BubblemanWell, you know what the police did, the RCMP in particular? They made it so no RCMP could spend more than two years in any one spot. Well, prior to that, you could spend 20 years on one island and everyone would know who you are. Thank you so much for watching.

44:55SpeakerWell, I mean, that system, that organization has had some massive, massive problems that are just, I mean, they've talked about dismantling the RCMP because of some of the shit that's going on in that organization. But it's, again, it's like when these organizations get big and it's just, you lose, you lose touch. I remember being in Italy. And, you know, it's hard for North Americans to understand, but in Italy, you know, everybody's like, no, you want to get your meat from that farm, right?

45:23SpeakerLike everybody is connected to the food production system in a way that we aren't here in North America. So true. It's a lot different when you know your farmer.

45:34BubblemanIt'd be nice to get back to a little bit of it. I guess it's like these dreamy utopian visions or whatever, but I just, I always think that we're smart enough. Go ahead, Etienne.

45:44Etienne FontanWell, all right, speaking of your utopian thing, all right, let's talk about something that happened in cannabis this week. New York State, New York State allowed for only outdoor cultivation, okay? And that was a kind of a hem and a haw. Well, this week they decided to reverse and allow for indoor cultivation. And as we know, there is a debate over indoor versus outdoor cultivation, of course.

46:08Etienne FontanThank you for joining us.

46:37Etienne FontanYou know, nature replicated situations. So, you know, what about that? That debate, indoor versus outdoor, right? You know, let's get to something that's, you know, cannabis related. I've grown both. I've grown amazing indoor and outdoor, right? But, you know, we also know New York State, where it's located up on, you know, the upper part of the United States, it's going to be challenging to grow cannabis, you know, all year throughout the year outdoors.

47:06Etienne FontanSo you can see why. As Ryan was saying, as we've gotten to this industrialization of production now, right? We need to look at more efficient ways to produce, or in New York's case, a way to produce year round, correct? Right.

47:22BubblemanYeah. Well, I've spoken to a couple of groups there. It seems like New York is definitely like... Upstate in particular has some different areas. There are a couple, I believe it was Hudson Cannabis I was speaking to that said they had a really good little area in New York. But I definitely know they suffer from like the blight. You know, they've got that going on up there like Michigan.

47:44BubblemanSeptoria. Well, Septoria, exactly. Basically, super problematic. And Yeah, I would say the same thing, you know, like obviously some of my favorites, my favorite resin ever was grown by Skunk Man Sam in his greenhouse and probably not with salts and, you know, extracted to perfection by him, obviously. So I collected the genetics collected and bred by him. So just on and on and on the story goes.

48:10BubblemanThat being said, I have had incredible, enjoyable resin. That's been grown indoors with salts. Like, I just can't not say that I have. You know what I mean? Like, I've had full melt, six star, absolutely incredible resin that just for whatever reason expressed itself in this beautiful, incredible way. So I'm, I'm not quite a, I'm a little on the fence with the two different types. I've also had great resin that was grown in a large, in a large scale, you know, like just coming back from Canara recently, I still have a little resin that I got from those guys that was grown in like a 12,000 light room.

48:54BubblemanYou know, like you think like, how could anyone grow cannabis that was like decent in any way under 12,000 lights? But lo and behold, they did it. In fact, I was talking to them about you the other day, Ryan. I was like, dude, we need to get Ryan up into this upstairs greenhouse that you got going on here. And like, cause they're all about flavor profiles. He's like, we need to find new novel flavor profiles.

49:18BubblemanI'm like, well, why don't we just hire Chimera to breed them? And he was just like, we can do that. I was like, yeah, yeah.

49:25SpeakerI'd spend time in Montreal just to start, dude. I got so many things I need to grow.

49:30BubblemanI know, dude. Trust me. The first time I went into their upstairs greenhouse, that's like, I don't know how big it is, dude, but it might be the biggest rooftop greenhouse I've ever been in in my life. It doesn't seem like you're on a roof. That's just how big it is. It's got 30 foot ceilings on the roof and it's empty right now. It's completely empty. I was just like, dude, you could fill this up with flavor profiles.

49:51BubblemanAre you kidding me right now?

49:54SpeakerYeah, well, you know where to find me.

49:58BubblemanI sure do. I actually do. I could drive to you right now, dude. That's something that I have not been able to say for like the last while when you were staying at Diana's, I knew where to find you as well. But you have been all over the fucking board, dude. Holy shit.

50:13SpeakerYeah, this whole year has been such a such a journey, man. I had a plan in January and then David passed and the whole thing just changed. Wow, you went above and beyond, brother.

50:31BubblemanYou went above and beyond.

50:32SpeakerI was so grateful to be able to be in a position in life where I could divert paths and, you know, focus on David and focus on Diana for a while and Just try to help. I mean, that's what life's about, right? You try to take care of the people that you care about when you're going through stuff. And I've been, I guess, in a way, I've been blessed to have the flexibility to do that because not everybody is in that position.

51:02BubblemanI was happy that you could do it. It made me very happy. I was... I was feeling how you were feeling, like the way you were blessed to be able to do that. I was feeling that we were all blessed that you were able to do that.

51:21SpeakerWell, it hit us hard. I mean, as a community and, uh, and I was thinking about it again the other day, like how ATN and his wife stepped up and we, everybody just dropped everything. Right. And it, it became all about honoring our friend and, uh,

51:42SpeakerYou know, these are heavy, heavy times that we all go through in life. And, you know, for me, life isn't about the stuff. It's about the relationships with the people. And being able to stop and dedicate some time to the people and, you know, hold hands so that we can get through difficult times is it's really a valuable, a valuable thing. And it, you know, it takes us off course a little bit at times of, you know, my course is trying to grow and breed and find new stuff.

52:15SpeakerYou know, this is the, this is not doing that, but it's all about experience. And, you know, I mean, and through the process, I get to know people like Robert Carroll, who's in the chat and, you know, all these other folks that I wasn't really connected to in the Dutch, in the Dutch scene. And we really do have this incredible community. You know, like, it's funny, like, everybody I know, all my friends, all my family, well, not family, close family, but like, you know, all the people that I interact with daily, they're all part of this cannabis community.

52:52SpeakerAnd cannabis has really given me a lot, including that relationship with David. And yeah, it's, it really is, you know, we talk about industry and systems and all this stuff, but it's like, really, we're all on this journey together. We're all just trying to find new and interesting things and improve the species and improve the high. Right. And that's really David's guiding principle was really like, how do we make cannabis better?

53:23SpeakerLike his whole passion about learning about cannabis, learning about the science and cannabis was like, he just wanted to be able to learn so that he could exploit that knowledge to make cannabis better and really get more high. Right. Which is, it's kind of a funny thing, but it's cannabis does give something to us. Um, And it's how many industries can you really say that about? You know, so I don't know.

53:52SpeakerI'm glad to be on this journey with you guys, even if you're crazy nut jobs about vaccines and medical industry and veganism and all this other stuff.

54:01BubblemanNut bars, baby.

54:03SpeakerThe thing that we all have in common is this one plant. It's our kind of our unifying force. And it's a global community. It really is. How you doing, Mark Sheldon? What's new with you?

54:19Dr Mark ScialdoneDoing good. Can you guys hear me?

54:21SpeakerYeah. Can hear you and see you.

54:25Dr Mark ScialdoneDoing good. Doing good. Here. Can I share, Marcus?

54:30BubblemanI would love for you to share.

54:32Dr Mark ScialdoneMark Sheldon is requesting you to allow multiple presenters. So it's always fun. It's always good when, you know, new cannabinoids or new compounds are discovered in a plant. So let me share this. This is kind of cool. So can you see my screen?

54:55Dr Mark ScialdoneCan you see this?

54:58SpeakerYeah.

54:58Dr Mark ScialdoneYes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. So you see what it says? It says, don't throw away those cannabis leaves. They're packed with rare compounds. So this was a paper that came out this week in... Uh-oh. Drew?

55:17BubblemanJeff... Jeff must have heard you going into science, Dr. Mark, because he just rolled right in right as you started.

55:27Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's up, guys? What's going on, man?

55:30SpeakerBubble man, how you doing? What's up, Mark?

55:33Dr Mark ScialdoneCheck this out. Actually, I got to throw out the kind bill.

55:38SpeakerYeah.

55:39Dr Mark ScialdoneKind Bill was the one who alerted me to this, and I covered this on Friday at 9 News. But so this group used this two-dimensional chromatography method to identify these new compounds in cannabis. Can you see the structure here? So we've seen and we've heard about flavonoids a lot, right? So flavonoids are very common, and this moiety right here is the flavonoid. The cool thing about this is that They're actually showing, so the flavonoid portion of the molecule we're used to seeing is what's called the aglycone.

56:18Dr Mark ScialdoneAglycone's only portion of the molecule. There's usually a carbohydrate. And so here what you see is that there's what they call a C-glycoside, right? That's because it's a carbon bonded to a sugar here. So the sugar moiety makes the compound super hydrophilic. And so these are, Thank you so much for joining us.

56:57Dr Mark ScialdoneThese types of pigments. So, typically, there's a, there's a portion, which looks like a flavonoid. So they're highly colored, but typically there's a sugar on it too. And it's a sugar that makes the compound super hydrophilic, which is the reason why they go into the water phase. So this particular compound also you'll see has a nitrogen here which makes it an alkaloid and that makes these compounds super rare.

57:25Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean in most cannabis extracts you don't find a whole lot of nitrogen containing compounds. I mean there's obviously there's the nitrogens that are in your You know, your enzymes and your synthesis, right? So, synthesis or enzymes, which are protein molecules that are, you know, chemical catalysts In the biochemical pathway. And so, right. So there's nitrogen in those molecules, obviously nitrogen in DNA.

57:53SpeakerBut not like in most of the secondary metabolites, right?

57:56Dr Mark ScialdoneLike that's one of the interesting things about cannabis plants.

57:59SpeakerThey produce very few nitrogenous secondary.

58:01Dr Mark ScialdoneVery few, right. In fact, that's a, that's a big distinguishing.

58:05SpeakerIt's a really interesting thing.

58:06Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's very different than like nicotine, right?

58:08SpeakerWhich has nitrogen.

58:09Dr Mark ScialdoneExactly.

58:09BubblemanDifferent from all other medical plants, really. Yeah.

58:13SpeakerAnd that's a huge consequence for the health consequences because it's the combustion of nitrogenous compounds that makes a lot of N-oxyl radicals that are a lot of the source of harm and of chronic smoke.

58:27Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's super cancerous nitroso compounds.

58:29SpeakerBut your cannabis is really poor in those compounds and so that smoke is very different.

58:35Dr Mark ScialdoneAnyway, sorry to interrupt.

58:37SpeakerSo tell us, do we know the pharmacology of this molecule, or does it do anything good?

58:42Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, so this is a class of compounds, Ryan, called... Flavo, because they're flavonoids, right? But because they have the nitrogen in there, they fall into the class of alkaloids. So they call them flavoalkaloids, right? So you can imagine that they could have alkaloid type activity. I mean, think about it. Here you have a nitrogen that's basically benzylic to an aromatic ring that's got some hydroxyls on it.

59:13Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, this starts to look like You know, this is a fen-methylamine, not a fen-ethylamine, but, you know, you start to see those types of motifs in some of these molecules. But the cool thing about it, again, is it teaches us a few things that, well, first of all, this is in the leaf, right? So this is not in the trichome itself. And so It's interesting, Jeff, to consider, you know, why would the plant be making these as secondary metabolites?

59:44Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, what's the function? To me, the function, when I look at these molecules and I see that there's a phenolic piece, okay, so obviously, All of these phenols and related polyphenols are often shuttles for biological reduction. So things like NADH and what not.

1:00:08SpeakerYeah, I was about to say. These are like antioxidants or reducing compounds in the general scheme of things. And so that's kind of there.

1:00:18Dr Mark ScialdoneThat that's right and actually their biological activity is super interesting because again they're they're they're water soluble right because because they're they're not they're they don't really have a whole lot of hydrophobic character if you look at the molecule right and anyway so this method that they used here I'm going to pull up the paper itself let's see can we are you looking at the paper So it should say comprehensive two-dimensional liquid chromatography.

1:00:49SpeakerYep.

1:00:50Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, okay. So I'm gonna scroll down on this a little bit. So this is the actual paper itself, which again was just published this week. So yeah, so scientists like me get really excited because here I am, you know, what, 40 years into doing chemistry in the lab and I'm learning about a new type of chromatography called hydrophilic interaction chromatography or what they call HILIC. And so here what they did is they did a HILIC by reverse phase chromatography.

1:01:23Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what that does is, So HLIC is kind of like different because it's using like a hydrophilic We're going to talk a little bit about what we call a reverse phase type of interaction. Most reverse phase columns, and Jeff could speak to this too, is they're using typically a reverse phase column. So let's just talk about what that is for a second. So in an HPLC system, you have what's called a column.

1:01:50Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd what you're doing is you're forcing fluid through that column at a pretty high pressure.

1:02:01Dr Mark ScialdoneWith different molecules based on their polarity.

1:02:07SpeakerThe column is stuffed with some kind of substance, right? Like it acts like a filter.

1:02:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so what, right, right. And so what happens like with reverse phase columns, like most HPLC columns are what we call reverse phase. And what that is, is where they functionalize the silica gel particles, which are hydrophilic. So silica gel is basically just refined sand, right? They functionalize those particles, really small particles. With something called oleic acid, which is C18, which is very abundant hydrophobic acid. And so what that does is it coats the silica particles with this hydrophobic coating.

1:02:52Dr Mark ScialdoneSo now when you push a solution of cannabinoids through there, the more hydrophobic Thank you for joining us today.

1:03:27Dr Mark ScialdoneFor people like me and Jeff to see this application, because we learned about this shit in graduate school. And now here it is being applied to basically figure out what some of these trace components are in cannabis leaves.

1:03:39SpeakerSo this is just beautiful. I had a friend in grad school at Duke who did glycan chemistry, which is like building up molecules that are multiple sugar units. I mean, oh my God, it sucked. I think it was so hard, but I bet there was, you know, it's like more than, it's 10 years ago now, more so like the tools have advanced a lot.

1:04:04Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so this is the cutting edge of where analytical chemistry is in 2025. You can do a two-dimensional... Chromatography, separation and identify. So they're not, it's important to know here. They're not quantifying.

1:04:22SpeakerI used to look at a molecule like that. I used to look at a molecule like that one and say, fuck that.

1:04:28Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, it's incredibly complex. It's got multiple stereo centers. If you stare at a compound like that, it'll decompose, let alone isolating it. So they've actually, in this paper, they don't really talk about like what the levels are. Needless to say, they're identifying these compounds for the first time. But here, I'll stop sharing. It's just really cool.

1:04:54SpeakerIs this a new to science molecule, Mark?

1:04:57Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so these flavalkaloids aren't known at that position having that particular substitution. So if you, here, let me share again. If you scroll down into the supporting information, see, this is just really cool. What you're looking at here are two of the mass spec of two of the compounds that were isolated for the first time. I think we just see your screen.

1:05:28Etienne FontanWe just see your desktop. I was about to say that it's a really surreal interpretation.

1:05:34Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, wait a second. Hold on a second. We need to share the right thing because this is really cool. This is fucking science, okay? Science waits for no man. So can you see it now?

1:05:48BubblemanYeah.

1:05:48Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, so these are two mass spectrum of two of these kinds of molecules. And what you could see is they have a nitrogen here where this R group is, this nitrogen is here. And they either have this six-membered ring or this five-membered ring here. So this basically makes it an alkaloid because there's nitrogen in there. And that means something because there's a certain biosynthetic pathway that alkaloids share.

1:06:17Dr Mark ScialdoneIn this case, it's very typical to see Thank you for joining us today.

1:06:41Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us.

1:07:12SpeakerHow would you extract that from the water?

1:07:16Dr Mark ScialdoneHow would you extract it from the water? Yeah, so you'd probably spend a lot of time and money doing that. I was going to try to show. So here's one. You ever wrote about water?

1:07:32BubblemanWell, no, listen, this is this is exactly how this whole terpene thing started with Tony and Horatio, because it was Kay from Tricome Technologies back in 2013, possibly, or early 2014. He called me up and he was at at at Sasha Sheldon's place. Right. And in the lab. And they and he sent me a picture of Sasha holding this vial of terpenes. And he said, he said, you need to figure out how to get those compounds out of the water after you make water hash.

1:08:12BubblemanYou need to figure that out. And I was just like, dude, what the fuck, man? I'm not going to figure that out. Like, I got a lot of shit going on right now. And that day, that day I told two people. Literally, within an hour of one another, I told Tony, who happened to be visiting some lab in Miami, I said, look, we need to figure out this terpene thing.

1:08:30BubblemanAnd then I told Horatio. Those were the two guys I told. And both of them, within a very, very short period of time, had cannabis-derived terpenes. Like the, not the... Yeah, yeah, the first cannabis-derived terpenes I had seen both came from Tony and from Horatio. And that came, you know, that inspiration was like that picture of Sasha holding the terpenes, which I just went into my history with Kay, and it's like, it's not there.

1:08:58BubblemanI can't find where he sent me that picture, but it was a really magical picture.

1:09:02Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so Kenny flashed those terpenes in front of me too and said, you'll never guess what's in here. And I said... Well, give me about 10 milligrams and I'll go run an NMR and I'll tell you exactly what's in there. And he didn't like hearing that at all.

1:09:16BubblemanI don't have to guess. I'm a chemist, God damn it.

1:09:21BubblemanWe have a lab for that.

1:09:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYou can run, but you can't hide, you know. That's it. Yeah. Still pretty incredible.

1:09:30SpeakerEvery morning in grad school, we would have coffee together and we'd talk about something. And then we'd finish the conversation with, you know what? We don't have to sit here and wonder. We have a lab. We can go find out right now. And that's what we did.

1:09:48Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, that's the great thing about chemistry, right? Because, you know, biology studies life. Astronomers study stars. Geologists study rocks. We study matter. And we could push around electrons on a whiteboard and say, well, let's go in the lab there and just do it, you know? Let's just take a little bit of iron, a little bit of clay, a little bit of whatever. Mix it together and be the alchemist of tomorrow, right?

1:10:15Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's what, you know, I ended up, I think through Todd, I want to say through Todd Marcus, I was introduced to Paul Daly, who was Sasha's, or, you know, like his helper, his assistant for many years toward the end. And so, yeah, Paul, I met Paul at the Shogun Lab. I didn't want to say it was right after Sasha died. Right after Sasha died. Yeah. And I met his widow, but I never met Sasha.

1:10:52Dr Mark ScialdoneBut I saw his lab. And yeah, Paul, who I think is still doing cannabis related stuff.

1:11:00BubblemanDid you never go to the psychedelic conferences? Because that's where you met, you can meet all these guys, dude. Like the first one I ever went to, I met them all. Like every Jonathan Ott, like Metzner, fucking Paul Stamets, like every one of them. And it was like a super much smaller community than the cannabis community. That's where I first met these crazy motherfuckers who were doing intermuscular injections of ketamine.

1:11:24BubblemanAnd then like literally like, It's shooting their consciousness out into the universe and flying around space and visiting planets.

1:11:33Etienne FontanSitting in floating tanks and all that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, the guy I did was the 50th anniversary of LSD. And you're correct. It's a very small, tight community. I was fortunate to have Anna and Sasha at BPG back in 2004. We had them both for question and answer. And people traveled literally from around the world once it came out that they were coming. And it was standing room only at BPG.

1:12:04Etienne FontanAnd it was just fascinating. I mean, literally shamans from around the world showed up just to ask them questions. You know, if you were trapped on an island, what five molecules would you take with you? And yeah, it was just, they were a fascinating couple. I have a... I have a print of them both, you know, hugging and around the molecule there. They're absolutely special people, but he was so ahead of his time, and I'm very fortunate, downstairs in the fridge, I have one of Kenny's So, yeah, I've kept that.

1:12:45Etienne FontanI have various other historical items like the first cannabis tin, et cetera, to finally donate to a museum that's worthy. And I've kept it frozen too, Mark Sheldon, so that it can, you know, properly have been maintained. So, yeah, make it into a museum so that it's frozen, right?

1:13:07Dr Mark ScialdoneJeff, you would love it. His lab reeked like a professor's chemical collection, you know, just acrid, you know, just indole smelling, you know, you could tell that there was like acid chlorides in there and just all kinds of just crusty compounds. It was amazing. There's a really cool, I think I've talked about this on Hash Church, a really cool video on... On YouTube called Dirty Pictures. And it's not those kinds of pictures.

1:13:41Dr Mark ScialdoneDirty Pictures refers to the little labels that Shulgin would put on his flasks and vials and whatnot.

1:13:49BubblemanBut that lab was like books came out of that lab, dude, like Pical and Tical.

1:13:56Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, Pical and Tical came out of there. And I know for a long time they were seeking money. So after... After his wife died and they were trying to keep the foundation was trying to keep the lab open. And I think. They were successful in doing that. They raised enough money to keep the lab and keep the property. I think you can look it up on Google Maps, something like Shulgin Ranch or Shulgin Farm.

1:14:29Dr Mark ScialdoneI forget what it is, but yeah, you find it's up in the hills above Oakland. And yeah, I mean, just really fascinating place when you go there. Right. He had a schedule one license there for years and they knew what he was up to, but they never, you know.

1:14:47BubblemanJust making two CB and every other molecule.

1:14:52Dr Mark ScialdoneCheck this out.

1:14:53BubblemanThis one's pretty fun.

1:14:55Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, if you read those two books, if you... I did.

1:14:58BubblemanI have them both signed on my shelf.

1:15:01Dr Mark ScialdoneIf you read them, Mark, it's just like the works of Mishulam. If you read Mishulam's papers, you'll understand how the man thinks, you know? And yeah, so he was the ultimate psychonaut, right? And obviously just the experiences that he had in trying... The materials that he was making, he could really give a really good assessment on the different nuances between the structural modifications that he made. Fascinating shit.

1:15:37SpeakerThe ultimate structure function study, you know?

1:15:42Etienne FontanYeah. One of the things that stood out from the talk, what they had when somebody asked what were the five compounds they would take,

1:15:52Etienne FontanTHC was not one of them, I remember. They talked to psilocybin. But then they both looked at each other out of nowhere and both had this just sheer joy of grin. And they said, 2CE, ah, the teacher. And they looked at each other with such a reverence. It was like a spark that went... Throughout the room, we're like, whoa, they hold this, that particular compound extremely sacred to themselves, where they both looked at each other with an endearing, they said like the most sacred thing in the world, and it rung out.

1:16:30Etienne FontanIt was absolutely one of those, huh? Because I've done 2C-B, but I've never done 2C-E. You know what kind of grin that was, Etienne? That was the shell grin. Yeah. You are a dad. That's a dad pun. You're allowed one. You're done. That's it? Damn. It's a daily thing. You only get one a day. I thought it was pretty good, man. Come on. No, that was pretty fucking good.

1:16:56BubblemanI'm a dad. It's true. I'll take that.

1:17:00SpeakerOh, that was a strong shot right there.

1:17:04BubblemanHey, it's early, man. It's early. I stayed up late last night. I'm not going to lie. I ate a fairly large dose of edibles as well. So I woke up today at 6 a.m. and I just closed my eyes for a second. When I looked back again, it was 8.50 and I was like, oh, holy shit. This is like, I got like 10 minutes to like, I, you know, after 11 years, I'm less worried.

1:17:37BubblemanI used to be very worried. I used to be very anal. And I put all this like, anxiety, this energy into making sure that I mean, even today, I was supposed to fly to Montreal, Air Canada went on strike, so I didn't go but I would have probably right now been on my phone. In an Uber, like on my way to the airport running Hash Church from my phone, which would be probably the seventh or eighth time that I've done that.

1:18:02BubblemanBut yeah, the show must go on. It must go on.

1:18:09SpeakerI'm early in my arc and I'm just getting over the jitters.

1:18:14BubblemanYeah, exactly. Well, because for a while I thought, I don't know, I just thought like my perspective. 11 years, yeah.

1:18:25Speaker11 years, yeah, yeah. So yeah, at this point, it's all just old hat for you.

1:18:30BubblemanWell, it's not that it's old hat, it's like, I don't care.

1:18:36SpeakerIt would be like the seven or eight time you did it from a car, right? Yeah, exactly. It's like there isn't much that's done it from a plane. I have a great topic of discussion for the panel.

1:18:47BubblemanWell, this is wonderful. I was going to ask you about that great discussion point that you have.

1:18:52SpeakerOkay, and I think we probably should do this on Cannabis Journal Club. But since we have two professors here, I would like you guys to comment on this subject. And I got into a heated discussion, almost an argument with somebody, because I said... That I don't believe there are cannabis drug interactions. And the guy told me, well, I don't want you to look stupid because there's tons of cannabis drug interactions.

1:19:29SpeakerSo I would like to discuss this with the professors and see what your opinion is. My opinion is simple. The CB1 and CB2 receptors only accept Things that bind to them like a lock and key and no pharmaceutical except for synthetic cannabinoids fit that mission. And so therefore cannabis cannot have drug interactions through the CB1 receptor. And there's tons of information on drug-drug interactions and they all are based on the fact that There's two enzyme systems that degrade cannabinoids, one in the brain and one in the liver.

1:20:22SpeakerAnd the liver enzymes also degrade a litany of pharmaceutical medicines. And most of these accusations have the word presumed interaction with cannabis because Since cannabis is degraded by the liver enzymes, there's a potential, I hate that word too, that the cannabis interactions may have some issue with other drugs not being degraded in the proper fashion because of the cannabis interaction with these liver enzymes. And I think its potential But I don't think there's any double-blind medical studies that prove cannabis changes how Coumadin interacts with the human or Theophilin or anything else.

1:21:25SpeakerAnd these are, I mean, a study about Coumadin was done years ago, and I don't have the literature on that anymore. But as I recall, it was not a proven link. And so what are you guys' opinion about this? Are there actually drug-drug interactions with cannabis and pharmaceuticals?

1:21:48BubblemanAnd how do you even recognize that when the cannabis has the one side effect, which is like get high, and then the drugs have like 14 pages of like anal bleeding, fucking like, just like the most psychotic, like side effects ever. And then you're like, oh, this drug, you know, so and so had a whatever. It's like, oh, it was the cannabis. It had to be the, it's a, that's a cannabis interaction.

1:22:13BubblemanLike it has to be, it's like really like, but there are 14 pages of side effects without cannabis being involved. Do you think that this one time with cannabis, that the side effect is now cannabis' fault? I like the way you think Dr. Allen, just going out on a limb. I'd love to hear from Jeff or Dr. Mark or Etienne, who was also a, technically a professor in Oaksterdam.

1:22:38SpeakerThey're more professional. And do you have any thoughts that you want to share, Mark? I have a couple of ideas, but...

1:22:45Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah, I mean, just, you know, the endocannabinoid system, which is what the with cannabis, the phytocannabinoids and cannabis act on does help control homeostasis. And when you take a drug, when you take an active ingredient of an FDA approved pharmaceutical, there is going to be some, by definition, some interaction. I mean, you can't think Thank you so much for joining us.

1:23:33Dr Mark ScialdoneJust so like the endocannabinoid system, again, it's so individual. I mean, that's the thing about the endocannabinoid system, right? Is that everyone has their own endocannabinoid tone, if you will, right? Like people... You could look at, again, certain disease states, whether it's a behavioral disorder or some type of neurological disorders, an endocannabinoid deficiency that then you're using cannabis to kind of get to where, you know, you're maintaining that homeostasis relationship, which again, which I would assume, again, if you need cannabis to get there, then cannabis will be affecting Thank you for joining us.

1:24:37Dr Mark ScialdoneDozy or it's so difficult to say, right? It's so different. There's a lot to unwrap in thinking about how any two things that you take into your body interact with each other, let alone a pharmaceutical and something like cannabis.

1:24:55SpeakerWell, Mark, I was able to find that cannabis does react with theophilus. Smoking cannabis does react with theophilin. But I was also found out that smoking tobacco has the same effect on theophylline. So my opinion is the drug war is based on faceless accusations. You just have to make what was a potential and then all they got to do is say potential and then they don't have to do the study.

1:25:27SpeakerWell, I have a couple of thoughts about that. I agree with you that some associations could have potentially been influenced by bias. And I do think that you have to look at the research carefully because I do believe that the medical community Thank you so much for joining us.

1:26:06SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:26:33SpeakerIf you like, if you say cannabis, well, cannabis is like kind of a cocktail of compounds. If I say cannabinoid, then I get to some more specific things. I cannot recall the details, but I know that several drug interactions between CBD and some commercial drugs have been discovered. And so they

1:26:59SpeakerI know that for myself, consuming cannabis. That's the issue that I'm speaking about. Yeah, presumably by taxing my, presumably by taxing by the oxidative system or like my cytochromes and the like, it changes how alcohol interacts with my body. So it definitely interacts, you know, there's definitely cannabis alcohol interaction there. That is real. And cannabinoids don't only interact with cannabinoid receptors. They also interact with some of the inflammatory chains.

1:27:42SpeakerAnd that's why cannabis is an analgesic. So they they change how our inflammatory pathways work. And so they can have interactions, I know, with like pain medications in some cases. But a lot of those a lot of those So, um, I think there, like the pharmacology is really complicated, right? Like, and I think that's some of the reasons why cannabis has been effective in treating addiction because it secondarily medicates pain.

1:28:24SpeakerSo yeah, yeah, those are some thoughts about that's basically like shotgunned you everything I know or I've heard in the last two years and read. So I think it's a complicated subject, you know.

1:28:39Etienne FontanIt's a very complicated subject. Dr. Allen, I can speak to it just as a provider. At Berkeley Patients Group, back in 2009, we had a reason to start a contraindications form. We had a city council member's wife ate too much of an edible and had to go get to the ER. And then it turns out she had a contraindication with one of her medications. I think that was a blood pressure medication.

1:29:09Etienne FontanOne that we had that was serious is somebody had a heart medication and that was also in 09 or 10 that seemed to have a contraindication with a THC CBD blend. But that was... I'm shocked. That out of the, you know, the 26 years we've been doing this, I can count on my hand less than four times that contraindications form has been filled out. So again, as you were stating, It's an anomaly.

1:29:44Etienne FontanIf anything, it's a proposed idea that it could have been. There was no science behind it. But there's also something I want to speak to that Kayla talked about, which is speaking about anesthesia. And as somebody who did not tell my anesthesiologist that I was a high cannabis user, I woke up during a procedure and I was in the midst of a full-on colonoscope where I was fully inflated and I woke up screaming in absolute pain and I would come to find out that there's studies that show that you need to have your anesthesia adjusted if you're a high cannabis user.

1:30:29Etienne FontanSo what I'm making... For what reason? I don't know what I was on, but whatever they knocked me out on, ever since then, I have told anesthesiologists from dentists, et cetera, onward, that I am a high cannabis user, that I have a tolerance like a bull, and they adjust their anesthesia accordingly because apparently- Stoners are resistant to anesthesia. Yeah.

1:30:54SpeakerWhat happens? Stoners are- I believe that's medical misinformation.

1:30:59BubblemanWell, I'll say I can tell you I can tell you I'm the opposite. I'm so sensitive to anesthesia that I usually come out of it and throw up for hours after I've had it. And I am also a very high cannabis user. I never tell them that. And it's not like I get operations all the time. But the few times that I have, I have been like deathly ill afterwards.

1:31:22BubblemanIt's the same way if I take like a Tylenol three or whatever, I get the same feeling like just like motion sickness and Heavy, heavy sickness. So you think we're spreading disinformation, Dr. Allen? Is that what you're saying?

1:31:34SpeakerWell, I believe that the anesthesiologists don't know anything about cannabis. And all they do is they read what's in the literature. And if you look at Google, there's pages and pages of interaction. With no double blind studies that prove interaction. And of course, if you smoke pot and drink alcohol, there's going to be an additional effect. But that doesn't mean that if you're taking digoxin, that you have to adjust your dose of digoxin because you also smoke or fentanyl when you get under anesthesia, because it's completely different.

1:32:14SpeakerFentanyl doesn't bind to anything involved in the cannabis. System. And so I think there's so much propaganda and it's drug war propaganda. And since doctors can't don't have schedule one medical license, they only have schedule two through five. So they can't study cannabis. And if they touch cannabis, they lose their license to prescribe all medicines, which means their career is over. So no doctor studies this. And you can't get a cohort of people together and say, well, is theophylline affected when you use cannabis on this group of people?

1:33:01SpeakerIt's impossible to do a study like that or any other medicine that you'd want to name. So I don't believe there's real clinical studies. And I think I'm the only doctor that will say this, that I believe there's no Harmful interactions between cannabis and any pharmaceutical.

1:33:25SpeakerSo that's my story. I'm sticking to it.

1:33:28BubblemanBold statements, Dr. Allen.

1:33:30SpeakerYeah, we do know that CBD interacts with CYP3A4 and at least one of the other cytochrome enzymes in your liver.

1:33:40Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, can I share a screen again? Yeah, because I think... Cetachrome P450, yes, of course.

1:33:46SpeakerBiochemical systems interact with each other way more, and it's such a complicated web. I mean, God. Yeah. Yeah. Like the idea of... So we could design a study ourselves. We could design a study ourselves. Anybody can do this, but nobody will do it because they can't get the funding for it. So you could say... Is any pharmaceutical, you could pick a number of 50 or more that are metabolized by cytochrome P450 and give them a standard dose of cannabis and see if there's any change in the drug.

1:34:26SpeakerNone of these studies have been done and all the information on the internet is probable or presumable or

1:34:37BubblemanPotentially.

1:34:38SpeakerPotential. So there is a potential. I have to admit that, but no proof that cannabis causes a negative drug, drug interaction that I am aware of currently. And hopefully one of you guys can lead me to something, some real science that says that they had a cohort of people. They had them on a certain drug and they, Tested a drug effect after using cannabis and found out that it had a detrimental effect.

1:35:14Dr Mark ScialdoneAll right, well, here's the one study that I know of. This came out a couple of years ago. And what this was was a woman who was on a NSAID called meloxicam, which is a pretty widely used medicine. And they documented that this 56-year-old woman presented with acute onset of diffuse blistering Uh, Mako, uh, papacular rash, uh, over 30% for body. Um,

1:35:52Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd then the biopsy confirmed this thing called SJS 10, which is the Stevens-Johnson syndrome toxic epidural necrolysis. So yeah, look at, I mean, I hope everyone's got something in their stomach because these Pictures are pretty spectacular. But what she ended up taking was, I think, a liposomal CBD formulation that affected the way meloxicam was metabolized in her liver, which led to this SJS thing. And if you look at, these are the post-mortem pictures here, you can see they're pretty Pretty spectacular.

1:36:47Dr Mark ScialdoneTerrible, right? So in this case, they're not saying that it was the CBD that killed her, but it was the CBD, the way that CBD interacted with this drug, meloxicam, that led to this Stevens-Johnson syndrome outbreak, which ultimately killed her. So I don't know, you want to say that, you know, you can't die from just taking CBD alone, but you could die from taking CBD plus this FDA.

1:37:21SpeakerSo the first question I would have for this story would be, does meloxicam ever cause Steven Johnson syndrome? It's a very severe allergic reaction and could easily kill you.

1:37:34Dr Mark ScialdoneSo yeah, here, Dave, I'm going to put that link in the chat so you can see that.

1:37:37SpeakerThey would have to prove that that two or more people on meloxicam had this reaction and and that it never happens when you just take the meloxicam right you expose someone to that possibility holy what a study to do who all they have to do is have this reaction

1:38:04BubblemanOr more importantly, that they can prove that the reaction never happens with the drug without cannabis present. That's a pretty big one. I mean, holy shit.

1:38:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I guess what they say here is that the mortality rates from SJS is between 10 to 50%, thus prompt identification and discontinuation of a causation is vital. You can get that from antifungals.

1:38:29SpeakerI took some antifungals and had that myself on my hands, the skin on my hands. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:39:04SpeakerBut it's a big question. I hope to be proven wrong. And they have real science that says that it does affect this particular medicine or that particular medicine.

1:39:14BubblemanWell, it is fascinating how easy cannabis can be. I mean, we had the conversation about the mold spores in the cannabis. And then it's like, well, how do we know that those spores didn't come?

1:39:26SpeakerIt was in the cannabis.

1:39:28BubblemanIt was in her lungs.

1:39:29SpeakerIt was in the cannabis. You teach one of these individually with a lot of skepticism. I do agree completely. That's actually why I came back this week. That discussion was so good. Yeah.

1:39:40BubblemanI mean, you were saying earlier to Dr. Allen, like, oh, who would want to do that study? When I met Peter Caldini, who was the, I believe he was the CEO for Pfizer Canada or Pfizer America. His name was Peter Caldini. He was part of this big SPAC that I was meeting with from New York City, and they were going to get involved in cannabis. But he told me that with drugs, there is like, It's like with seatbelts in cars he's like there's a certain allowable amount of human loss of human life lost and i was like what he's like yeah it's like the same thing with the seatbelts like there was a certain amount that the car companies could allow people to die in cars and once they went beyond beyond that threshold and too many people were dying they were like we got to create a safety mechanism and they created seatbelts and made them mandatory in all the cars but he's telling me that drug companies have this same perspective Thank you for joining us.

1:40:57BubblemanWhat a crazy thing to say. Like an FDA approved drug makes me even more nervous about its efficacy and safety. It definitely does not make it safe. Like, holy shit. But we are trained in our minds to think that they're the word of God when it comes to efficacy and safety of medicine because they have been put in the position of monitoring, you know, that they are the authority on that.

1:41:21BubblemanSo it's, and I'm not saying they don't get things right.

1:41:24SpeakerBut they're frightening. I mean, there is acceptable risk in life, you know?

1:41:29BubblemanWell, exactly. You drive a car, you got to know it's possible.

1:41:32SpeakerAnd it's there every day, no matter what we do with everything we interact with.

1:41:37BubblemanAnd we die everywhere we go. So what are we going to do?

1:41:41SpeakerJust make everything illegal? Everybody dies sometime. And, you know, I think like the... Yeah, I would far from advocate that these risk management systems are perfect. I mean, I devoted my life to a nonprofit to improve our risk management process, right? Like, that's basically what I do, right? But, you know, but each of these is a system that does... You know, something. And like the FDA is far from perfect, but definitely also has done a lot.

1:42:28SpeakerAnd when you look at how many people live to 80, Now versus say 100, 120 years ago, it's pretty impressive.

1:42:41BubblemanWell, we should look at the quality of life because we can't say that America has to be one of the unhealthiest countries on the planet right now with obesity.

1:42:51SpeakerIt's pretty hard for people to kick the bucket here.

1:42:56BubblemanI think it's about quality of life, not keeping people alive in hospital beds and incubator tubes. Look at Japan and how many people they have over 100 years old.

1:43:11SpeakerThe FDA has brought us to vaccinations and antibiotics that All of these things prevent so many horrible childhood illnesses, disfigurements, and deaths. That's the big change in the life expectancy is that not so many children die anymore. But then we put soda pops in the schools and half the kids are overweight. That's insane.

1:43:43SpeakerWell, that's not all the same things causing it. And also, there's also always unintended consequences, right? I mean, you've made some things, like, safer. It made lots of life really a lot safer, mostly.

1:43:57BubblemanLike, how did, like, OxyContin get accepted by the FDA? You know, so... Yeah, like there's just like you can't deny the corruption.

1:44:08SpeakerThey didn't look skeptically at the evidence that people could use it as not as intended.

1:44:13BubblemanI think they were too busy looking at the briefcases full of money. They just couldn't see past that. That's a tough thing to see past, man. I'm telling you, those briefcases must have been thick and big. Probably came in in trucks.

1:44:26SpeakerBeep, beep, beep.

1:44:28BubblemanThat's the sound of a bribe that I can get behind.

1:44:34SpeakerI don't think it was really straight up bribing. No, I would just call it corruption.

1:44:40BubblemanThere's probably shares involved.

1:44:41SpeakerI don't think it was straight up corruption either. I think it's worth looking at because it was actually like a series of failures.

1:44:51SpeakerOr a series of mistakes that you could see in retrospect how it happened. And if you study it, then you can figure out how to prevent it from happening again.

1:44:58BubblemanOh, they have documentaries on the Sackler family. Corruption was absolutely involved. At the thousand percent level.

1:45:07SpeakerThey were paying off doctors. Systems to prevent that failed and systems of marketing were allowed and permitted that shouldn't have been. You're talking about thalidomide, aren't you? Well, that's a totally different one, but that's safe. And that one's that. Yeah, that one's neat, too.

1:45:29BubblemanIt's true, because if you're going to talk about like the amazing benefit of keeping the children alive, you should probably mention when you accidentally, you know, had the children growing tails and being born without feet.

1:45:41SpeakerBut actually, the overall direction has been that ever since we came up with public health approaches to looking at the world, that we've made the world safer.

1:45:53BubblemanI think you're right. I think one of the smartest things we ever did was get sewage out of our streets. I think this was a massive, massive... But we never get everything perfect.

1:46:04SpeakerAnd there's always mistakes and unintended consequences along the way. And some of them are really horrible.

1:46:12BubblemanWhich is the fear of blindly believing anything too fervently.

1:46:22SpeakerThat's why I kick the tire so much on each of these things, right? That's why I like the discussion with David here. Yeah, absolutely.

1:46:30BubblemanYeah, Dr. Allen's always interesting. He's always poking the bear, you know. I like it. I like his perspective. I like to sit on the fence. I know that there's good and bad in all. But I recognize the bad, you know. For me, You know, I, I got turned. I, I had no idea once again, cuz my diet was like meat and potatoes when I grew up in Manitoba and my partner was like, Hey, my wife's pregnant.

1:46:58BubblemanI'm gonna have a baby soon. Do you wanna come to this meeting with me? And I'm like, what's it about? And he's like, it's about like vaccines. This was in like the early 90s. I'm like vaccines. Like, what about vaccines? He's like, well, we just we just want to figure out if we should take them or not. And I remember being like, whoa, what are you talking about, dude?

1:47:17BubblemanOf course you have to take them. What are you talking about? He's like, well, you know, I just want to go to this meeting. It's a bunch of local people. I thought it was going to be all like super hippied out people. It wasn't. It was all moms. And they certainly weren't like conspiracy types. We were definitely the two standouts in the room. And this was like 35 years ago before his first son, Gaia, was born.

1:47:41BubblemanAnd I went to this meeting and what I found, first of all, was that none of the women were against vaccines. Not a single person in the room was against vaccines. They were very specifically against The manipulation of the statistic of their particular child who was injured by a vaccine where the doctor and the company would absolutely not bend the knee and acknowledge that potentially, possibly, maybe It could possibly be this.

1:48:11BubblemanSo on the flip side where you have like, oh, something happened and cannabis was involved, the medical establishment will look at that and say it was cannabis's fault. But on the other flip side, when a vaccine and this, the one story that got me was the woman, she gave the first, whatever, the three month vaccine to her baby and it got like half paralyzed. And the doctor was like, it definitely had nothing to do with the vaccine.

1:48:32BubblemanShe was like, no problem. She went home. She's like, you know, moving his legs and his arms. And within about a month and a half, she brought the baby back. He was he was he was he was back in normal growth and movement. And so she went back and got the next vaccine, which was at like six or nine months or something. And then it was even worse.

1:48:52BubblemanWe paralyzed. And she was like, look, it's it's it's You don't think it could be the vaccine? He just got vaccinated like four hours ago. And the doctor's like, no, this is not the vaccine. And they just wouldn't write it into the book that it could have possibly been these vaccines. And this woman was the most intense story. They all had stories similar, but her child ended up dying on the third vaccine.

1:49:18BubblemanAnd she still didn't blame vaccines. She didn't want to make it so people couldn't have vaccines. She wasn't against vaccines. She was against the idea that they wouldn't fucking write it down when clearly her baby died from a vaccine. And that shit, that shit was fucking scary to sit in a room with super straight people that were clearly not nut bar conspiracy freaks, but just regular people.

1:49:45BubblemanAnd every one of them was saying the same thing. She was the only one that had lost a child. The others, their children weren't the same anymore. They had shifted. And these moms were tuned into their kids. They were like, I'm telling you, my kid has never been the same since this. The fact that they weren't against the vaccines to Martin and I were mind blowing. All they wanted to do was make sure the statistics showed that this was happening and that it was a possibility and that maybe that would create a pathway where we did more safety protocols and tested more things.

1:50:19SpeakerThey weren't like saying we shouldn't vaccinate children, you know, but yes, I, I have a comment about the vaccines that most people don't understand. And vaccines are just proteins, purified proteins in a vial. Right. And bacteria eat protein. Okay. So when they put it in a vial and put it on the shelf, they got to make sure that it stays sterile on the shelf for a long period of time until they can use it.

1:50:52SpeakerAnd so they have to put stuff in the vaccines to inhibit bacterial growth, mercury and other things. So the lawyers make them put stuff in there that obviously is not vaccine. It's mercury, thiosol. And, you know, so this causes major trouble with vaccines because it's a purified protein product and bacteria eat that.

1:51:27BubblemanRight. Well, anyway, it was eye opening for me. I started just talking about it with people and they were like, oh, you're you're you know, they didn't have the term anti-vax at the time. But I looked at immediately noticed that to have this conversation with anyone and I Dude, a week prior, I just thought, of course you get vaccines. Who the fuck is questioning vaccines? And I just never even thought of it when I, you know, then I met these moms and it kind of freaked me out a little bit.

1:51:58BubblemanI was just like, it just kind of reminded me of like the military system. It's like, oh, the pride and the, And the patriotism. And it's just like, just almost too much in your face how patriotic it is. And then, oh, when they come back broken and destroyed and mentally ill and suffering and suicidal, let's make sure we treat them like real shit. Let's make sure we fucking run these motherfuckers through the grinder.

1:52:24BubblemanMake sure they get homeless. Make sure we facilitate the suicides for them. You just look at that and think, fuck, man, like there's... There's definitely something wrong in this world. And I'm not saying that, like, yes, I also have judgments on the U.S. military. It scares the shit out of me at the same time. Do I think we need police? Yes, of course we do. If we need police, then we need a military.

1:52:46BubblemanI'm not going to deny I'm not living in some make-believe world where, you know, I wouldn't believe that if North America had no military whatsoever and if America wasn't who America was... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:53:28BubblemanAnd then if you have the conversation, you suddenly, you know, people are like, oh, this guy's, you know, crazy. And it's like, I'm not anti-vax. I've said it a million times. I would fight for everyone's right to get a vaccine on this fucking panel. I would fight for your right. And I hope you would fight for my right to say no to said vaccine.

1:53:50SpeakerYeah. When I was in the army, They would get ready to be sent overseas. You have to have a bunch of shots before you could go overseas. And I would stand in a long line and they would have six or eight guys with air guns that would shoot the vaccine in your arm and you couldn't say no.

1:54:13BubblemanYeah, well, welcome to the military. I remember when I first went to India, they were like, oh, you got to get a bunch of vaccines or you can't go. And I was like, no, no, that can't be true. And I went and did the research and found out through the embassy and everything that I, in fact, I did not need to get those vaccines whatsoever. And I went to India and I hung out for a long time and I just ate some acidophilus and some Swedish bitters.

1:54:34BubblemanI never got sick. I ate the food. I drank the water. I stayed away from the ice. And other than that, I was fine. But yeah, they were like, you have to get the vaccine if you want to go to India. And I was like, well, You know, maybe if I was sick, maybe if I was an unhealthy person, I would think of that more. I would be like, well, this couldn't help.

1:54:55BubblemanI'll give myself a little boost. But I think of myself as a fairly healthy person. Take pretty good care of myself. I feel like for my age, I'm very healthy and I feel pretty good. I'm not carrying extra weight. I'm not like, you know, my lungs feel pretty strong. I'm strong in the sense that I do a lot of weightlifting and taking care of myself. Yeah, it's, I believe that, you know, I kind of felt that during COVID that I knew people that were like, oh, I'm going to get the vaccine.

1:55:23BubblemanAnd I was like, you should get the vaccine. Like, fuck, fucking right. So I'm not going to, but I'm, I'm not going to, like, it's not going to, it's not, COVID's not going to kill me. In fact, I never even got it. Or if I did, I was one of those people that didn't realize that I, that I had it, asymptomatic people or whatever. And some people I know that got it were like damn near, You know, fucking died from it.

1:55:47BubblemanSo. This is the beautiful choice, right? It's a nice choice to have for yourself that you make sure you do all the things. I guess it was Jeff earlier saying, in all things in life, we're always on that precipice of like danger and death. It's just right there. We're all kind of making our way closer and closer to it as we travel. And obviously the things that will lead you there, either faster or slower or right on time, however you look at life, are your decisions.

1:56:15BubblemanYou know, when my father was really, you know, I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here.

1:56:44BubblemanI just realized every decision this fucking guy made his entire life led him to that moment. And not only him, also his wife. Every decision she ever made led her to that moment. And then I'm starting to think, holy fuck, the deer that jumped out of the forest onto the highway into their motorcycle, every decision that fucking deer made, everyone led it right to that moment. And I thought, Thank you for joining us.

1:57:36BubblemanTook him an extra second to put his sock on that day and that took him down a different path and, you know, made the right turn when he should have made a left turn and that took him down a path. And it's just incredible the paths that our choices lead us down. I would say after to people, you know, don't worry about your death. You're not going to be early and you're not going to be late.

1:57:58BubblemanYou will show up right on time.

1:58:01Etienne FontanAnd it can be random too at any time. So stay tuned, dude.

1:58:05BubblemanYeah, stay tuned. Holy shit.

1:58:08SpeakerYeah, probability is like that. And it's really weird, you know, like, whatever the odds of something, you only end up having the experience you have. So sometimes in my life, I think that some very, very improbable things happen to me, or I had very improbable experiences. And, but, you know, and off, but still, right, like, I made choices all along the way, that I've come to understand it's important to take notes when you watch your show.

1:58:38SpeakerOh shit, I should be doing that.

1:59:00SpeakerBut, you know, I think what I would want is for people, I think what's, but this is also hard, right? What you would really want, right? Like, so you choose to go to India without taking the vaccines, right? Then you, like, what I would want is that you appreciate, like, what kind of a risk you're taking, right? That, like, there's some chance you'll come home with a brain worm, right?

1:59:22SpeakerAnd taking the vaccine might prevent that. So, like... Right? Like, right? Like, but it's often like, since all of the like, it's kind of an improbable event that you're guarding against, but also like, the vaccine side effect is probably is improbable. Most people take them and are fine. So like, you know, like, you're weighing one improbable hazard against another one, probably whatever choice you make is okay.

1:59:50SpeakerYeah.

1:59:51BubblemanYeah, that's kind of how it feels, you know?

1:59:54SpeakerIt's just like you got to make your choices. You're never going to be able to learn enough to like, right? So I think with some of these choices, they're more like that, right? Like, and then others, right?

2:00:03BubblemanIt's just, you just got to be able to have the choices.

2:00:06SpeakerI'm going to urge people to keep getting the measles vaccine. All right. Like the risks from that vaccine are way lower than the shit life you can get from measles. So like, you know, But then think about it. Think about the people.

2:00:22BubblemanThink of how many people have taken that measles vaccine and then manifested and created a life as shitty as having measles. But not having anything to do with measles, just living a terribly depressed, unhappy life where you're just smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol and addicted to pills. It's all about free will and choice, and you have to be able to make your choices. And of course, the measles vaccine, you should have the right to get the measles vaccine.

2:00:52BubblemanWhen my mom was a girl, she went to measles parties. They would just take the kids to get the measles.

2:01:00SpeakerThat's what, that was the reality of it. Really? They did that? Or I thought that was chickenpox. They did that.

2:01:05BubblemanNo, this was going, this was going back further than the chickenpox.

2:01:09SpeakerGoogle Measle Party. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, people don't know. Trying to get it early.

2:01:19BubblemanWas it malice or was it ignorance, right? Yeah, maybe. Maybe it was most likely ignorance, but it is what it is.

2:01:27SpeakerDoes everybody know about the SV40 contamination of polio vaccines?

2:01:33BubblemanIs that the monkey abuse serum 40?

2:01:36SpeakerYeah, SV40, simian virus 40.

2:01:39BubblemanSimian virus, yeah, I know about it. It's interesting.

2:01:43SpeakerThe polio vaccine was contaminated because they developed it from rhesus monkeys. And apparently the monkeys have simian virus 40 that causes tumors if you inject it in any mammal, but the monkeys are immune to it. So apparently when they did this, this was before they knew about DNA, and the polio vaccine also had remnants of this monkey virus, Sv40, and was actually causing people that got the polio vaccine to have soft tissue tumors, and they hid that.

2:02:29SpeakerHmm. Well, I think that, yeah, concealing, concealing evidence is not good. Like, and, um, yeah, that's, that's interesting. I think that, isn't that like, that's like a, a really small, like a viroid, right? It's a really, I'm not, I don't, I, the SV40, I think it's a really small, like viroid that's really hard to even detect and purify out.

2:02:52BubblemanThey, they, they grow it on monkey kidneys. Look it up.

2:02:57SpeakerYeah. But yeah, yeah, though it's interesting that, yeah, I mean, that there have been some, you know, yeah. And I can also remember, now I'm old enough, I can remember two or three times since I was in college when new classes of molecules were being developed as potential drugs. And with each one, there was... You know, this happens once every five or 10 years that you see like some new class of molecules become in vogue, right?

2:03:29SpeakerThey have fashion and chemistry too. And there was some rationale of like why this one is, this is going to be a class of molecules that won't have side effects. And Like whole classes, like in early development, whole classes of molecules that were really hot for a while would be completely abandoned because it turned out they do have terrible side effects that you totally didn't expect. You're like, oh, well, this is based on mRNA.

2:03:59SpeakerHow could, you know, it's so specific and this operates by such a specific interaction. How could this tag anything off target? And it always does. And it's because biochemistry is so complex. So we're always discovering more and more Wrinkles and challenges and unintended consequences. It's designer chemistry. But we don't, we still try, you know, like we still work at it and keep studying, even though we'll never know everything.

2:04:28SpeakerLike we try.

2:04:33BubblemanYeah, well, it's always learning. It's the frightening thing. Like, I feel like when I talk to highly intelligent people, I'm like, man, we're like the human race is smart as a whole. But I agree.

2:04:43SpeakerWe do take a long time to learn. When these pharmaceutical companies become really big businesses and they have to invest enormous amounts of their own money for the for the drug testing and safety, there are There are negative incentives that come from that. And I think that when you mention the desire to sweep under the rug harmful consequences, yeah, of course, a firm like that would have a lot of incentive to do that.

2:05:16SpeakerIt's really dangerous for our society that pharmaceutical companies are advertising so much and are routinely in the top five industries for stock returns. So they're really safe investments. They always do well. Those companies always do great. Right. Even even with even those are really big risks. So one or two billion dollars. Those are all the risks like like this has been a discussion of all those hazards of having a system like that that is getting really hard to regulate.

2:05:47SpeakerYou know, they are way more those those guys are way more powerful. You know, they have way more time. They have way more lawyers. Right. So I think I feel like the yeah, the

2:06:01SpeakerI think that maybe the part of it where the thing that makes me feel a little defensive sometimes is that sometimes I can really identify with a lot of the academically minded people And the scientists in the government and in the FDA. And I feel like they get a lot of the blame, but they're actually sitting there screaming about all the same stuff that you are watching helplessly as they get plowed over by people with way more money.

2:06:28SpeakerSo like, I feel like some of these failures have been used to have been weaponized against the scientists. And we've lost sight of the systems that created them, which was mostly the big money and the advertising. And some of these harmful consequences were prognosticated when the law was changed to allow pharmaceutical companies to advertise drugs on TV, which I can remember when it happened. I was a kid.

2:06:57SpeakerI think I was in high school, maybe, or going to college. I can't recall.

2:07:00BubblemanI remember the late night commercials where it would be this like fun. Someone showed me the most beautiful meme. It was like pharmaceutical company commercials. And it was like the top where all these people, they were just like super phony and having like the best time. Just laughing. And then the bottom was just like, it was kind of like a drawing. It wasn't an actual person. It was almost like the drawing of like a sign or something of people crossing, but it was just a guy leaning over and vomiting and shitting out of his ass at the same time.

2:07:30BubblemanAnd it was kind of like the picture they sell you and then the truth of the actual matter. Did you see the new one with Ozempic that just happened? It's going Thank you for watching.

2:08:02BubblemanI mean, that's the way the pharmaceutical company wants to train you to reply. If you have a medical license, I'll tell you that much. But the reality is at one point in time, you have to look at it like, wow, I wonder if this corruption is like causing this problem where it's like you're pushing it. If only it were that. What you say is what it should be.

2:08:22BubblemanI'm not 100%. That's what it is. But it should be that.

2:08:26SpeakerI think it's a little bit of column A and column B. It's more like a spectrum. Likely. It's kind of a spectrum where we push back, we get better. I feel like a lot of the ways that you kind of improve it are by shining lights on how the process works, which is really hard. If only it was just because then you start learning because a lot of what makes things happen is attention, you know, like public attention.

2:09:07Etienne FontanWell, blindness is, well, I mean, for me, as we were talking earlier, you know, about, you know, conditions, I grew up with a blind father. And a blind brother. So I expect everybody to have blindness in their family. Oh, it doesn't happen. Well, I spent my childhood also going to conventions for the blind because my mom spoke as a and was an early outspoken person as a person who had a child who was blind and the challenges that it is is having a blind parent.

2:09:35Etienne FontanAnd while there, I met all kinds of people going blind for all kinds of reasons. The most common one, diabetes. You know, they don't take care of themselves and their diabetes can cause blindness. But Ozepic going blindness and instant blindness, that's, you know, that's horrible. I mean, on a level because I watch people slowly lose their eyesight. as their you know eyes go through their atrophy as they reach their full blindness and it's absolutely tragic you know my father could see colors until the age of 12 and then develop glaucoma how cruel is that right he was blind but could see colors then develop glaucoma and then could no longer see colors You know, that's a major impact that you have now.

2:10:24Etienne FontanImagine being able to see everything and then immediately going gone.

2:10:28BubblemanI mean, that's... Well, listen, the kid that I grew up with, I'll never forget Dylan Mazur. He was a good friend of mine. And I can't remember the name of his disease. It was a degenerate eye disease. And what his eyesight was doing was the hole was just getting smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. Until he was just seeing out of a pinhole. And then until that disappeared as well.

2:10:54BubblemanAnd I was friends with him. He hadn't gone quite blind by the time we sort of went our separate ways through schooling and whatnot. But this poor kid had no peripheral vision. But when I knew him, he couldn't see your hands if they were right here. He really just had these two strips of vision. And he was positive about it. He certainly wasn't... As negative as I think I would have been if that was happening to me, but it is incredible the things that human beings can go through.

2:11:25BubblemanAnd I guess when you lose one sense, you know, you tune into these other senses in a way that maybe people with all of their senses don't ever really get to do. So still pretty heavy. It's very heavy for you too, Etienne, having a blind father and a blind brother. Like that must have been very unique experience. Growing up in that home.

2:11:51Etienne FontanIt was easy growing up in the home. It was a problem growing up while my mom and dad separated when I was one because he was a con artist because he became the first blind lawyer in Louisiana. And oddly enough, I would find his first crime on eBay recently. What? Yeah, yeah, it's really kind of crazy. I did a search for my dad's last name. And inadvertently, he again, he became the first blind lawyer because he had an amazing memory.

2:12:24Etienne FontanSo everybody he was around him said he was amazing, but he couldn't get work. And this is even before the 1964 Disabilities Act. And In 1964, yeah, that's when that happened. So I happened to do a search on eBay and found this picture of my father giving a statement to a New Orleans police officer. And the opposite side of the picture was the actual news article. And it was from, I guess, a newspaper sold their archives or whatever.

2:13:10Etienne FontanAnd so somebody sells the archival pictures. And somebody smartly put on the back of the picture, the article. And the article states, And if you want, I can pull up the picture too, because I bought it. I was just like, wait a second. Okay, so what happened was, or the story I was told by my mother is that my father faked being robbed. And then the robber then took his law files as well as the money in his wallet.

2:13:57Etienne FontanAnd so this happened once. It was in the newspaper. I have the actual article. I have the picture and the article. And so apparently it happened again. And then when I was one years old, it happened again. And this time, the officer who was in the picture originally was now a detective. And so he was doing the research. You remember, wait a second, blind guy.

2:14:24SpeakerWhat coincidence.

2:14:25Etienne FontanRobbed in a bathroom of not only his money, but his law files. Okay. And yeah, so that's when my mom was like, you get the fuck out of the house. You're a lying piece of shit. Because the detective basically came and told her, said, no, no, no, no, no. This is not the first time he did it. Because my dad told my mom, oh, this is the first time I ever did that.

2:14:45Etienne FontanSorry, I just needed the money. No, no, no, no. The detective shows up at the house is like, Mrs. Fontaine, thought you should know. I am the actual officer who took the original statement from your husband before he was your husband back in 1965 and whatever.

2:15:01SpeakerSo I was like, oh, shit.

2:15:05Etienne FontanSo, yeah, so the problem was for me, Marcus, was growing up in southern Louisiana and my brother was born without eyeballs. He did not develop eyeballs nor an optic nerve. So it's a very rare situation. And so his eyes are sunken in. So to most people, he looks like a circus freak. So just going to town, which I lived in a small country town, literally, I graduated in a high school class of 19 people, public school, very rural.

2:15:40Etienne FontanOkay, so when you go to town, I would escort my brother around because I'm the youngest, but I'm a boy, so I can take him into the men's room. And yeah, people would literally walk behind me backwards staring at my brother because he looks like a circus freak. They've never seen anything like it. It looks a little bizarre. And yeah, I grew up with that as well as taking him to the bathroom and then getting assaulted in the bathroom because I want to take my brother out.

2:16:08Etienne FontanBut people want to stare and, you know, at my brother because he's, you know, has a condition. So yeah, it was a double edged sword. It helped me deal with a lot of things at an early age. But You know, growing up in the Deep South with somebody with a disability was traumatizing consistently because of the inability to have compassion and empathy. You know, it was really frustrating.

2:16:38Etienne FontanAnd You know how challenging it is to lead a blind person around New Orleans? New Orleans is below sea level, so it's constantly degrading in all unique spots. So it's challenging to walk as a sober person. And half of everybody in New Orleans is drunk at any given time.

2:16:55BubblemanI was going to say, are there sober people in New Orleans?

2:16:58Etienne FontanA small percentage, and that's the delivery people. But everybody else is steadily drunk. So, you know, between dodging people and ground, it's its own set of challenges.

2:17:10BubblemanDude, while you're telling this story, Emid Otter is in the group. He's like, oh, I thought the picture of Frosty Grass was Etienne's dreads up in a bun, but it's cannabis. I'm putting the bong down now.

2:17:29Etienne FontanThat's hilarious.

2:17:30BubblemanDude, it's actually pretty good. You can't look directly and see it, but if you kind of look away from you while you're on the screen and do the peripheral glance, you can see this. That's awesome. Good on you, Emid.

2:17:45SpeakerI agree. The corner of my eye. It's like, oh, dude's wearing a really interesting hat or has a neat hairdo.

2:17:51BubblemanRight? Absolutely. Man, I want to give away like, I don't know, some type of Something today from the Press Club. I don't know if it'll be some of their new double stacked bags so you don't have to do it yourself, which is a huge pain in the ass for people that press rosin. I don't know how many of you guys on the panel have been pressing rosin, but the biggest pain in the ass when you press rosin.

2:18:20BubblemanNo shit, that's your dad, dude? Dude, that's fucking crazy.

2:18:27Etienne FontanYeah, that's my dad. So there he is giving his original statement. And I found this randomly on eBay, right? I mean, what are the odds, right?

2:18:39BubblemanDude, that's incredible. Did you buy it?

2:18:43Etienne FontanYeah, I own it. That's why I photoshopped it. Fucking rights you did, dude.

2:18:46BubblemanI knew it.

2:18:47Etienne FontanHow could you not? I know. You know, the sins of the father told by the son, right? So, you know, for me, yeah, that was an... This was April 19th of 2024, right before 420, I got it.

2:19:03Etienne FontanYou know, it's just one of those things where you're like, wait a second, is that my dad? Holy shit, that is my dad. Wait, why is my dad in, oh shit, it's the actual photo from the Times-Picayune in New Orleans from when, oh shit, oh my God, I cannot believe it. yeah how weird is that right i mean what's what's the odds of you actually hearing of a story that was in your family and then one day actually not only finding your father's crime but you know finding the actual newspaper article that goes along with it right i mean what what what's Is that some random weird shit in life, folks, or what?

2:19:48Etienne FontanYou know, I don't know. Oh, here it is. And here is just to show you two. And that's the article on the back. Shit.

2:20:07Bubbleman1964.

2:20:08Etienne FontanA gunman took $23 from a blind New Orleans lawyer in the sixth floor restroom of the Hibernia Bank building. On Carondelet this morning. How much money? $23. How did he know he had a gun if he was blind? He felt it thrust into his, it says right there, it was thrust into his ribs.

2:20:28SpeakerOh my God, that's fucking hilarious.

2:20:30Etienne FontanYou know, so he painted his own picture, you know what I'm saying?

2:20:33BubblemanIt was almost on April 20th.

2:20:35Etienne FontanIt's just four days after 420. How bizarre, right?

2:20:39BubblemanAnd like 10 years before 420 became a thing.

2:20:43Etienne FontanWow.

2:20:45BubblemanYeah, that's a wild story, man. Holy crap.

2:20:52SpeakerThis guy's like, I mean, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, this guy, this guy got people to believe multiple times that a person was willing to rob a blind person in a bathroom for like, Pocket money.

2:21:10BubblemanDude, I bet you if a blind person told you a lie, too, you were just like, there's no reason this blind guy's lying.

2:21:15Etienne FontanWell, 23 bucks in the 1960s was a lot of money, you know what I'm saying?

2:21:18SpeakerYeah, yeah, no, no, yeah, it's, I mean, yeah, when I say pocket money. It's not like a dollar today. No, no, it's pocket money, though, right? I mean, it's like, it was a cash economy at that time, right? That might be what you would carry around, right? Like... To be prepared. I don't know. It's a little much. I take your point. Right. But like.

2:21:43Etienne FontanI don't know man like wow what a like what a dastardly thing like holding up a blind person in the bathroom like and what you would never think for that blind person to dream up to get away with it not once not twice but then to do it a third time right you know that's that's what I'm saying I bet you most people sociopath behavior right there if I've ever seen one

2:22:10SpeakerWell, I mean, you know, when something got you out of a jam once, right? There were no computers back then to keep the records, so it's easier to repeat those things.

2:22:25BubblemanYeah, that's true. That's true. I think it's time for a derp here.

2:22:28SpeakerSmall town town digitized records, yeah. What's everyone puffing on?

2:22:36BubblemanWhat am I puffing on? I saw Caleb puffing on a fat joint of something delicious earlier.

2:22:45Etienne FontanHe's been doing that, um, um, the wand and he's been low temping his, uh, his, his herb. He said, what'd you say you're doing around two something?

2:22:57SpeakerYeah, like 240. It's, it's 125 on the, on the Celsius meter, but like it's, you know, it just gets hot. And it keeps going. I've got some of the mix that you gave me, ATN.

2:23:14Etienne FontanUh-oh.

2:23:16SpeakerI love me some mix.

2:23:18BubblemanI used to call it the lucky day. People would be like, why is it called lucky day? I'm like, because it's never going to happen again. I'm never going to have these ones all put together to give to you. It's a one-time experiment. That's it. That's it. Don't ask for any more because I can't give it to you.

2:23:37SpeakerI just have a stupid cartridge. And the reason why is because I bought a new hash product at the store yesterday. And I thought it was going to be like hash rosin. And I was going to try out my new, I just got the Daybreak Puffco Peak Pro. And so I was going to like break that bad boy out. And then it turned out it's like, no, no, it's like old school hash.

2:24:05Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's not Puffco material.

2:24:07SpeakerSo I smoked a big joint with a bunch of it broken up in it outside before I joined you guys. And I might step out again. I don't combust in the apartment.

2:24:19BubblemanYes. Well, you know, as a joint smoker of past days... And from being from Prohibition days, it'll always sound natural for me to hear someone say, oh, we stepped out and went and smoked a joint or whatever. You know, we've always been like, in fact, I picture you crumpling in behind a BFI can because that's really how, you know, my first joint I ever smoked was hunched in behind a dumpster.

2:24:48SpeakerOh, yeah, yeah.

2:24:49BubblemanWe went behind the store and then we hid behind the dumpster.

2:24:52SpeakerMy first time smoking was like this dime bag that some guy bought on the corner in Poughkeepsie on his way up to Hudson to like meet us. And we smoked it off of a ginger ale can.

2:25:06BubblemanClassic.

2:25:07SpeakerNow what I do, now what I do, now I like smoking joints and I like hash. So I was like, I was like, oh, okay. All right. Well, it's old school hash. Okay. That's fine. So, you know, I, now what I, I, I smoke joints on a regular basis in the, um, at the smoking bench where everyone else in my apartment complex goes to smoke cigarettes. And I just hang out with my joint and I'm just like, yep, I'm smoking too.

2:25:34SpeakerYeah.

2:25:37BubblemanOh, nice. Yeah, just drinking some kombucha. And people are always like, what was what was the label on your can? I'm like, I'll just hold it up. So I don't have to answer that question 43 times in the comment section later. Remedy kombucha, zero sugar, not many drinks you can get out there today that don't have like 50 grams of sugar, let alone zero. But yeah, zero is good.

2:25:56BubblemanI'm definitely a I feel like I don't need any more sugar in my life. I think I'm like at the top of my, like I just, I don't need any more of it, but they keep putting it in everything. Yeah. It's definitely a bummer. It's interesting when you stop consuming sugar, you simultaneously stop consuming almost everything that you can buy at a gas station.

2:26:31SpeakerYeah. Just like that.

2:26:32BubblemanIt's just like, boom, there's no more access.

2:26:36SpeakerI'm still bummed out that, um, I'm still bummed out at the amount of, um, starches and sugars that are just an inherent part of the beer that I like so much.

2:26:51BubblemanRight. Yeah. Yeah. That'll, uh, That'll give you a little gut if you go too hard on that one.

2:27:00SpeakerThat's the thing I'm working on. I don't eat sweets or anything else anymore because I'm like, all right, no, no, no. I got to save up that sugar and starch budget for one thing. I like that. I like that.

2:27:14BubblemanI got to save up my sugar and starch budget.

2:27:21BubblemanI mean, that's the way it is, right? We all got to kind of make our decisions. Like, where are you going to go with this?

2:27:25SpeakerWhat are you going to do? I'm going to drink a loaf of bread tonight.

2:27:31SpeakerI better eat some meat and salad. That's awesome. Very good.

2:27:38BubblemanYeah, I miss the boat on beer, man. I never, you know, I have friends that just love it. All the different flavor profiles and aromatic inebriants. And I just never got into beer or alcohol of any sort. It was another one that repelled. It was repellent to me. And I am thankful for that because, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't, I've never needed it in my life, especially to gather.

2:28:07BubblemanI feel that. You feel that as well, Caleb? Are you not?

2:28:10SpeakerI'm actually allergic to alcohol. So when you were showing the kombucha, I was wondering, there's probably too much alcohol in there for me even.

2:28:17BubblemanNo, I don't think so.

2:28:19Etienne FontanI can't take alcohol either anymore. Marcus, did you see this week that came out about Canada, how Canada's cannabis industry contributes more than $76 billion to cannabis GDP, generating over 100K jobs annually?

2:28:36BubblemanYeah, that's insane. Yeah, I saw it. I saw it.

2:28:40Etienne FontanThat's not small.

2:28:43BubblemanNo, that's huge.

2:28:48BubblemanThat's absolutely huge. It's any thoughts? Well, I'm glad that we're producing jobs.

2:28:55Etienne FontanYou've gone from the, you know, getting busted to being an LP, right? Yeah.

2:29:01BubblemanI mean, listen, I'm stoked that cannabis is available. I find that the one thing, if you were an activist and you got this happy, you were a part of this thing that like hemp and cannabis and medical and recreational, and you don't care who profits, you're just happy. If you saw it happening with a specific group of people profiting, then you're very unhappy right now. See, I went to the school of Dave Watson and Dave from a very young, it was the first most shocking thing he ever said to me.

2:29:35BubblemanHe said, he just looked right at me and said, you don't understand. I don't care who profits from it. I'm just fighting for access. I just want the world to have access. And then whoever profits from it, Good for them. Woohoo! Right on. But I don't give a fuck who it is. And I was like, okay, I never thought of that before. I kind of thought we would all be the ones to profit.

2:29:55BubblemanAnd the minute I removed myself from that component, I was always less mad in the, you know, now the legalization aspect of cannabis that we're in, at least here in Canada.

2:30:08SpeakerThank you for watching.

2:30:23BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

2:30:53BubblemanWe've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do.

2:31:05BubblemanYou know, and I'm not saying that we should give it to all kids, but it's, you don't need to protect children from cannabis quite the way you think you do. Like in my opinion, the highest way, like our kids like going into stores and buying, no, if you want to protect kids from cannabis, just make sure the gummies are packaged a specific way and that they're not accessible.

2:31:25BubblemanCause that's the most likely thing a kid would eat. But in Canada, we still tell the lie that we have to protect children from cannabis. And, you know, that was why you couldn't see into any cannabis store for the first like five years of business. They had like foggy. You had to cover the windows completely. You couldn't see into the store, which, in my opinion, created a more dangerous environment for the people working in the stores, because now if you go in there and just lock the door, you can rob them and no one out on the street can see what's happening.

2:31:55BubblemanYou're protected in this. Closed off rooms. So finally that changed, but that was, believe it or not, they thought, and still to this day, I can bring my son, who's 10, I can bring him to the liquor store today and buy a vat of Jack Daniels, which is enough to kill like 19 people. Or I could go to the cannabis store and make him wait outside because he's not allowed to even go into the cannabis store because for him to even see a cannabis product on the shelf from outside the street into the store would put him at risk in some way.

2:32:31BubblemanAnd this is the ridiculousness of the fallacy of the lie, the narrative that you need to protect children from cannabis. Once you tell that story, You can, you know, go down this whole other pathway of absurdity. So we have that absurdity, but we also, I could just go buy like haze and like melty bubbles and live hash rosins. And, you know, like there's like 200 fucking stores within probably less than 40 minutes from my house.

2:33:01BubblemanIt's pretty cool. The normalization in Canada that now like just regular people are talking about weed like, oh, Oh yeah, I bought these gummies from the so-and-so company. They're pretty good. Oh yeah, I bought some of those joints. And it's really neat to hear people, you know, trying cannabis for the first time, basically because the government is allowing it. You know, there were those people that were like, no, it's illegal.

2:33:27BubblemanYou can't do it. It's like, well, even like to save your child's life. Nope, it's illegal. It's like, and then all of a sudden it's legal. And they're like, This is amazing. I'm trying, I'm trying it all. I'm drinking beverages. I'm smoking joints. I've got a fucking CBD suppository up my ass right now. I love legal cannabis.

2:33:48BubblemanYeah, it's, uh, So it's cool. It's cool. We're happy in Canada. It's much like my chagrin of the pharma, of the meat industry. Like, do I believe they're important? Of course. Do I believe we need the military and the police? Of course. I just wish we could do better as a human race where things didn't have to so easily become corrupted. And I get that that is difficult because corruption is palpable.

2:34:18BubblemanAnd also the level of corruption I'm talking about, no one on this panel can even fathom. You have no idea what it's like to be offered hundreds of millions of dollars. You know what I mean? There's no understanding of how much that would change your life and the generations of your family's lives if you wanted it to. You know, we live in a world where we are a slave to wages.

2:34:43BubblemanSo it's like, you know, I get it. I saw it with... I see this division in life all the time. And it always seems to be like, if you want to do like natural, if you want to be organic, if you want to be, there's always this industrial military complex that's just like, no, you can't do that. It's always the same division. We see it with cannabis.

2:35:06BubblemanOh, it's going to be living soil and organic and regenerative. It's like, no, let's build huge 50,000 light rooms with salt nutrients. And it's just, yeah, the dichotomy of it is sometimes, A little bit too much to handle, but here we are.

2:35:25SpeakerAs someone who is working right now to fight against corruption in our state cannabis regulator, I can tell you that the way that it works is it takes constant attention and creativity to... To keep corruption down, it can happen for the pettiest or smallest of rewards sometimes. It's shocking what can happen. But what I actually want people to remember a lot of times is that corruption also feeds on our cynicism and our belief that it could never work better.

2:36:12SpeakerAnd in fact, our system works X well now, where X is some number between zero and 100%, say, right? And it's a lot better than no system. And it... I guess it depends on where you fall in the system. It depends on your position in the system. But actually, bad things don't always happen. Corruption does get cleaned up and rooted out, and things get improved and fixed sometimes.

2:36:53SpeakerAnd it's actually... And a lot of the ways that we can help that happen is just by paying attention. And like learning, learning how the system works. And that's like, so you're saying build a hyper surveillance system with China? Well, I'm just what I mean is I will say this though I will like I have had a lot of success at drawing attention to some things that happened and making some things change in Massachusetts by um by drawing attention to event certain events within public meetings of the of the control commission and the challenge is these meetings are six and a half hours long So nobody has the fucking time and energy to sit there and it's all Robert's Rules stuff and really slow talking and then these arcane arguments, right?

2:37:48SpeakerBut like what I've learned recently is that like if I pick out little video clips and write transcripts and interpret them for people, then people understand some of what happened, right? And like that meeting. And as we and all of those people participating in those meetings start noticing that people are paying attention. Right. And they are, you know, people actually know their names. Got to shine your flashlight on them.

2:38:16SpeakerAnd like and I'm talking about an audience of like like I'm excited when I get I'm excited that I got almost 100 people to my Web site. Right. It's a small number of people, but this is really small politics. Right. And You know, a lot of times things get fixed when someone like energetic enough just gets up. And I'm not the only person who's drawn attention to it.

2:38:40SpeakerBut I've I've just learned a lot from like a very small scale example of how these things are put together, like what the kind of Lego bricks are, that corruption and these big things that we fight against, like what they're made out of. And And like, like, like from, from what I understand, like, like, you know, like, like one thing that happened in our commission was that there was a guy who was the boss of the whole thing who, um, for like a couple of, you know, for a couple of years, he was, he had one foot out the door and he was applying for jobs and he was telling everybody he was going to quit anytime.

2:39:22SpeakerAnd he did that for his last two years. And that's a recipe for what you call regulatory capture. You know, so when you learn about, you know, right. And it's really small. Nobody ever gave him a briefcase of money. But like, you know, those are the kinds of things that you learn to, and I've learned that there's other people who do it, you know, who kind of.

2:39:42BubblemanI think the briefcase of money is just the metaphor of gaining something for yourself at the expense of others. Is it always a briefcase of money? No, that's the problem with corruption. Fuck, it could be about a pair of Nike shoes.

2:39:58SpeakerYeah, yeah. Right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but you know, it's partly like... To some degree, those are the internal narratives that the corrupted people are telling themselves. They're like, well, I'm not taking a briefcase of money or something. Oh, 100%.

2:40:17BubblemanI think it's very natural.

2:40:19SpeakerYeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. It's very... It's human nature, in fact.

2:40:25BubblemanYou can kind of see it in like... I watched this thing with my kid. He loves Mr. Beast. And Mr. Beast got given like, I don't know how much money from Jeff Bezos to do some weird like... Like game show, but it's unlike any game show you've ever seen. And he puts these people into these psychological positions where they have to pretend they're virtue signaling like crazy to one another because you want everyone to like you because in these challenges you can get bumped out by just doing, it's this, I can't even really describe it, but so they're all virtue signaling to everyone.

2:41:00BubblemanOh no, I'm looking out for you. I'm looking out for the team, even though only one person is winning the contest out of the thousand people that start. They have to pretend that, oh, I'm here to protect you as much as I'm here to protect me. But when the shit comes down to it, they'll literally, you know, when it's like, oh, there's half a million dollars sitting there and everyone, okay, we're all just going to take a hundred grand.

2:41:23BubblemanAnd the second guy's like, I'm taking it all. And that's human nature that is shown in that moment where you're like, and he's just like, listen, I don't know any of you. I don't give a shit about any of you. I'm doing this for my family. And they're all still in the virtue signaling phase of the game because they just had all the money taken from them.

2:41:40BubblemanSo, yeah, it is what it is. Humans are strange beings. Also awesome beings. I love to, you know, gather with you guys every Sunday and puff bowls and go into these conversations. There's I feel there's importance in dialogue and there should be. You know, there shouldn't really be anything that you can't talk about and feel like, you know, it's okay to disagree with one another. It's okay to...

2:42:06BubblemanI feel that once you start judging someone from their perspectives too harshly, you really cut yourself off from learning about really something super important because it's something you don't know about. It's someone else's perspective that you hold the opposite perspective. Terence McKenna always said that belief system was the anchor of mankind because if you believed something fervently enough, it blinded you to any other possibilities. Of that happening outside of your belief system, which I always thought was a profound statement and sounds more intense when you're super high on mushrooms.

2:42:41BubblemanBut even on a Sunday morning baked on some weed, you can feel it. You can feel it.

2:42:46Etienne FontanYou know what I believe? I believe with my heart that they should release the Epstein files there. Yeah. Holy shit.

2:42:58BubblemanYeah, I don't think that we should be protecting the worst people in the world. Right? I'm with you. Release the files. You sons of bitches.

2:43:16BubblemanOh my goodness. Okay, well, you know what? I'm going to give away. I'm going to give away. And perfect timing because it just hit 73 entries. Let's see if I can get it up before it changes. 73 entries. Look at that. It just changed as I got it up. So as always, I don't know what the press club is going to send you. It could be a spoon.

2:43:35BubblemanIt could be some of these cool new bags, double stitched bags, double bagged, double stitched bags. But you have to send me an email at bcbubbleman at icloud.com immediately after you win so I can confirm who you are in the chat with an actual email. So that's important to do. 79, I think I'm just going to choose a winner here.

2:44:00Etienne FontanYou want to get a bunch of people asking what everybody's smoking and then watch the everything just blow the fuck up. What is it? All right.

2:44:07BubblemanWhat's everybody or where is everybody? Tell me where you are and tell me what you're smoking. Oh, there it goes. Let's see, we got 85.

2:44:16SpeakerI think, I don't know if we'll get more than 100.

2:44:18BubblemanLet me know if someone said they're on the toilet. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know what? The only time, and you know what? Your son never did come back in, but the only time Dr. Mark's son came into Hash Church, he accidentally came in on the toilet. He's like, he turned on his phone, accidentally went live, and it was just his feet. That's all. It was just his feet, but it was kind of like, what the heck?

2:44:41BubblemanAnd then he went off right away. It was like super quick. And then I was like, dude, who the fuck was that?

2:44:45SpeakerHe's like, oh, I'm sorry, that's my son.

2:44:47BubblemanI was like, that's such an incredible parental moment, I can't even tell you. That is so much like what it's like having children, like I can't even express to you, like Dr. Mark, revered Hash Church panelist, PhD chemist, Like fucking, fucking dudes dropping knowledge left, right, and center. First time he invites his son, who I'm sure is brilliant and awesome and amazing. But of course, he comes in on the toilet with his pants down around his ankles.

2:45:17BubblemanIt was incredible and amazing. And Jake, it's Jake, right? Yes. Yes. We love you, Jake. We do want you to come back on Hash Church one day and could have happened to any of us. Very humiliating. Yes. Well, humbling, let's say, because we have love. You don't have to be humiliated. Just be humbled. Yeah, of course. It's embarrassing. Well, that got the numbers up. It sure did.

2:45:42BubblemanOver 109. I'm going to choose a winner right now at 110. So here we go. Three, two, one. Who's getting that something from the press club?

2:45:54BubblemanAngel Saria. Angel Saria. There it is. Do you see your name, Angel? Angel, do you see it? Do you see it? So Bingo, if you can put my chat or my email into the chat, Angel Soria, you won. Well, that's nice. It's always nice to share the goodness with people. Hopefully she sends me the email right away so I don't have to give it away again because really that's the trick, making sure you confirm who this no name, it's always just a random name, right?

2:46:32BubblemanThe first one was Ben Inya, if you can imagine. Ben Inya, I had no idea. It was like a play on. You're never gonna let that down. No, no, of course not. I didn't know it was Ben Inya. I was like, oh, Ben Inya. I think it was you, Etienne, who was like, ah, ha, ha, ha, ha.

2:46:48Etienne FontanYeah, yeah.

2:46:49BubblemanBen Inia from New Orleans. They know all about that.

2:46:53Etienne FontanYeah, we are all about street shit there. So we were talking prior what we were smoking on. I am smoking on this Rosenthal Guava Cito by it looks like Luna Farms. So that's what I'm puffing on.

2:47:13BubblemanI was puffing on Guava too. But I think the jar is in the other room right now. Really nice, nice, nice stuff, though.

2:47:24Etienne FontanWhat are you parking on, Mark?

2:47:28Etienne FontanDr. Sheldon, sorry. HHCA.

2:47:33BubblemanYou HHCA-ing in the Puffco? How's that feel? Dr. Mark's a savage.

2:47:40Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat? Yeah, that's great. It's very mellow.

2:47:47Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

2:47:49SpeakerDid you make that?

2:47:52Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's that? Did you make that? Yeah, did I make that? Right, right. Yeah, it's my Shulgin moment, right? I got up there. I got up there. Jeff at CanMed, you know, which was McKernan's, you know, cannabis conference back in 2017 at Harvard Medical School, you know, showed a little vial of white powder like this and said, yeah, I made this and then I consumed it. You know, but, you know, I mean, all kidding aside, I mean, it's not...

2:48:31Dr Mark ScialdoneJust hydrogenating the molecule itself. So the dehydrogenated version is CBN. The hydrogenated version is HHC. So we're just adding hydrogen to a molecule that is used to losing and gaining hydrogen. So I don't think it's as experimental as it might seem.

2:48:57SpeakerI don't know what you mean.

2:49:01SpeakerI spent a lot of time in the penthouse of the old chemistry building at UVM where the hydrogenators were. Oh, yeah. They had the old school shakers because you don't stir it, right? Yeah.

2:49:18Dr Mark ScialdoneYou can not stir it. You had the par shaker, right?

2:49:22SpeakerYeah, or it was a nice gentle rocker. That was made to not, you know, especially for, you know, everything's made to not throw sparks no matter what, right? Right. And pressure is that thing with, you know, 5 or 10 PSI of hydrogen and

2:49:42Dr Mark ScialdoneTurn it loose. Yeah, I typically, so to make this, I run 65 PSI.

2:49:49SpeakerYeah, it takes a lot of PSI to hydrogenate that all the way up.

2:49:52Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, and like a 20 molar solution in methanol, and it's done in like a half hour or an hour. So I just, I follow it by GC.

2:50:03SpeakerThat's the way to make them go. The higher you can crank up that pressure, they go, yeah, it gets way faster. Yeah, what you're doing. It's like turning up the temperature on other reactions.

2:50:11Dr Mark ScialdoneExactly. You're literally pushing the hydrogen into the solvent. And so. Yeah. You could really see a difference between the solubility of hydrogen and methanol versus ethanol. Ethanol has got a little higher viscosity, but methanol just readily absorbs hydrogen. And yeah, that hydrogenation is done in, yeah, literally like about a half hour to an hour at that catalyst loading. Here's a really cool thing.

2:50:39SpeakerI was an impatient wuss when I started, so I had a lot of incomplete hydrogenations early on. And then someone gave me this other pressure chamber, and I just cranked it up. And I was like, oh, why didn't I do it? What an idiot.

2:50:52Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, typically. Right, Jeff, you'd go into a lab and you'd see these little balloons filled with hydrogen over a stirring vessel.

2:51:00SpeakerOh my God, that's such bullshit, man. I would not, yeah, yeah, yeah. I refused to live my life. I tried that a few times and I refused to live my life that way. Like that is for the fucking birds. Like waiting.

2:51:12Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's a different game when you could put some PSIs on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

2:51:19SpeakerIt's worth the walk. I just go for a walk through the building, stick my head in the doors like anybody got a pressure chamber like like someone's got one in your building, man. And like it's worth like that is the fastest way to get it done. Don't sit there with the fucking balloon.

2:51:39Dr Mark ScialdoneI have a small little pressure vessel that I could crank up to like a thousand or maybe like about a hundred PSI. But I also have like a full like one liter par shaker, which I use all the time. But the really cool thing I was going to tell you, Jeff, is that so when you hydrogenate THCA, You make a mixture at the new stereogenic center, right?

2:52:06Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the nine position of the ring, you make the nine R and the nine S isomer. And what's known with HHC, HHC anyway, Is that the 9R isomer is more active at CB1 than the 9S isomer because the 9R, the methyl occupies kind of like the pseudo equatorial kind of configuration, which is more similar to Delta 9 itself, right? Yeah, Delta 9. It's got the double bond.

2:52:40Dr Mark ScialdoneSP2 carbon there, right? So it's completely planar. But the weird thing, so here's what we see with the acids. So the acids aren't substrates for the CB1 and CB2 receptor. If you look at THCA versus THC, it's like two orders of magnitude, right? So the acids don't hit the receptor, but what the acids hit... Are different things like TRPV1 and PPAR. We were talking before about the analgesic properties of the cannabinoids.

2:53:14SpeakerYeah, they get some of those other inflammatory cascade ones.

2:53:16Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's right. And their analgesic properties are not through the CB1 receptors. So what we've done is we use chiral chromatography now to separate the 9R from the 9S isomer. And I showed this data.

2:53:31SpeakerSo that's chirally separated?

2:53:34Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so we use chiral separation even though they're diastereomers. They're diastereomers, but they come right on top of each other. Yeah, some diastereomers. In chromatography, but when you use a chiral separation, a chiral medium, you can get better separation. Well, anyway, what we're finding is that the 9S isomer is more active than the 9R isomer of the acid. So that's cool because with the decarboxylated one, the R is more active than the S. We're finding the S one is more active than the R. So stay tuned.

2:54:10Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're writing a paper on this right now. And what we'd like to do.

2:54:15SpeakerOh, sorry. Go ahead.

2:54:16Dr Mark ScialdoneNow, I was going to say what we'd like to do now. So what we we've made esters of the acid. And what we find is that the esters are a little bit more separable because you're adding, you know, a little bit of hydrophobic. You'd be given a little more.

2:54:29SpeakerYeah. Given a little more spinach there. Right. Like, right.

2:54:33Dr Mark ScialdoneBut like the last thing that Mishulam did before he died was he was looking at. CBDA methyl ester, because he had a set of data that showed that CBDA was like 10 times more active than CBD. But what's profoundingly complex with CBDA is that it readily decarboxylates. So he had made the methyl ester Thank you for joining us.

2:55:19Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it's just, it's so fucking cool, man, because, you know, Dr. Dave, who was on before, and I have traded this one paper that talked about how the acids, again, don't act on the cannabinoid receptors, but they act on a different set of receptors. And then you have the decarboxylated cannabinoids, which act on the cannabinoid receptors. It's like, and then you have CBG, which is like, So all these cannabinoids really do have different and orthogonal.

2:55:56Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us.

2:56:18Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you for joining us.

2:56:47Dr Mark ScialdoneEverything that the cannabis plant can offer can offer in so many different ways that hits so many different relevant biological receptors. Jeff, we talked about this.

2:57:01SpeakerI was curious about the decarboxylation of HHCA. Because because because right. The decarboxylation of every cannabinoid acid are actually different in their yield and their rate. Right.

2:57:15Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so you can you can melt and you can melt HHCA without decarboxylating it. But similar to THCA, it'll start decarboxylating about 100. Thank you for joining us.

2:57:46Dr Mark ScialdoneWith THCA, when you decarboxylate it, if you don't flush it either with an atmosphere of nitrogen or argon, immediately your THCA will start to turn color. And so what happens is as it's heating up in the air, it starts to form that hydroquinone, which is a highly colored compound. But this doesn't form the color, which is really super interesting. And the other thing that I found out, which is also... Well, yeah, it's fully hydrogenated, right?

2:58:16Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it doesn't... Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's fully hydrogenated. The other thing I found was super interesting is that we're helping... Do you know Darwin Millard, who runs the ASTM group on cannabis?

2:58:32SpeakerBut it is funny, yeah, because you're changing...

2:58:36Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, so Darwin, Darwin calls himself the Spock of cannabis. We'll have to have Darwin on sometime, Marcus. He's a Canadian and he's really, he's kind of funny, but he's, he's totally like this cannabis nerd. He's not a chemist. I think he's an engineer by training, but anyway, he wanted some slides around Delta eight, you know, because there's interesting aspects about Delta eight, you know, Delta-8, when they're making it from CBD, makes a bunch of different non-natural isomer products.

2:59:11Dr Mark ScialdoneBut I told them, I said, well, you can make, if Delta-8 is what you want, you can make it cleanly from decarboxylated THCA. So you can make it clean from Delta-9. He's like, oh man, he's like, can you send me a chromatogram? So I sent him a chromatogram and showed him. So when you take THCA, you know, crystalline purified THCA, and you decarboxylate it under an inert atmosphere of nitrogen or argon, yeah, you could make clean Delta 9 THCA to where you only get one peak in the spectrum.

2:59:52Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you for joining us.

3:00:07Dr Mark ScialdoneThe first time that Delta-8 kind of reared its ugly head, at least from what I remember, was when Chris Baron and the Clear People in California were adding so-called bleaching clays, right, which were Montmorillonite, Bentonite type clays. They were adding these clays to pots of dirty distillate that often were Dirty, you know, color and smelly and often probably pesticide-laden.

3:00:38SpeakerIt's one of those old school chemistry purification methods for remediating something. It's like when you're desperate and you add the activated charcoal, you're like, maybe this will work.

3:00:49Dr Mark ScialdoneBut what they didn't realize, Jeff, what they didn't realize is that the clay is acidic. And so by adding the acidic clay to their pot of dirty distillate, they took the naturally occurring Delta 9 and isomerized it over to Delta 8. So then they were doing a poop distillation and distilling out this clear distillate. I mean, it looked like water. It was water white. In fact, The labs at the time were not sophisticated enough to distinguish between Delta 8 and Delta 9.

3:01:24Dr Mark ScialdoneATN, you might remember this, the clear. When the clear started in California, all they knew is that they were starting with this dirty brownish looking distillate and they were getting this water white clear distillate. They're like, whoa. Thank you for watching.

3:02:00Dr Mark ScialdoneWhich isn't CBD. So in isomerizing Delta 9 to Delta 8, that's an easy isomerization to do. And it's very, very clean. You don't get the non-natural isomers. But when you take CBD, which now only has two rings, right? Thank you so much for joining us.

3:02:34Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, small peaks, all molecular weight 314 because that's molecular weight of THC. They're all isomers of each other, but they're like the exo THC, the iso this, the iso that, you know. And so, yeah, so anyway, it's chemistry rears its ugly head all the time, you know.

3:02:59BubblemanWell, yeah, because all lives are matter. You guys study matter.

3:03:11Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're all matter. Marcus, we haven't had Chris on in a while. Chris Barone. We have kind of like I've lost touch with Chris. You've lost touch with Chris? Yeah, I mean, I don't even know that he's still doing cannabis. I know he was doing a big hemp project down in South Carolina a number of years ago. But I think he's back in Long Beach area. But I don't think he's associated with the Clear brand anymore.

3:03:40Dr Mark ScialdoneBut the Clear brand is still a thing. Absolutely. And yeah, so those cats were making Delta 8 years before the farm bill. And they were making it from Delta to none. So I guess that's the point.

3:03:57BubblemanAnyway. Yeah, I'm actually, I'm talking to him right now.

3:04:01Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, okay. Tell him we said hello.

3:04:05BubblemanMaroney.

3:04:07Dr Mark ScialdoneTell him we all need one of his smoking jackets. Remember that cool smoking jacket he had?

3:04:14BubblemanI do remember. Dude's a pretty awesome tripper. He's a trip with you. He will trip with you.

3:04:29Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. So, you know, there's a lot of a lot of lore about Delta 8. You know, Delta 8 itself is probably not.

3:04:40Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's just like Delta 9. It's no more toxic than Delta 9 is. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

3:04:54Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat we know is that these co-isomers co-elute on HPLC, so that inflates the Delta-8 numbers. So most of the COAs that are made for Delta-8 THC, if it's made by HPLC, are erroneous because those isomers co-elute will inflate that peak and make that peak bigger. So... Yeah, they got to do the analysis by gas chromatography. And I don't think a lot of testing labs are.

3:05:32BubblemanI have to do it by dabbing rig. I do all my testing through my dabbing rig. As you can say, my dabbing rig is in rough shape right now. I don't even know if I should show how much rosin is in the bottom of my pipe right now, but it is pretty disgusting.

3:05:51Etienne FontanYou're forgiven.

3:05:53BubblemanI'm going to have to clean that. There's like a couple, like, I don't know, maybe like seven grams of rosin floating in my ship right now.

3:06:01SpeakerIt's hash church at the time for confection.

3:06:03Etienne FontanThere's no expectation your pipe's going to be clean. You know, it's just we use our stuff, but you should at least change the water. Jesus Christ, that's nasty.

3:06:11SpeakerCome as you are.

3:06:12BubblemanOh, no, the water was clean. Not too recently, but look at that shit, dude. That is absolutely fucking horrendous. Just balls of fucking rosin.

3:06:23SpeakerConfession is the path to, what is it? Resolution. No. What's their term? Absolution, right? Yeah. You can absolve your sins. Confess.

3:06:43BubblemanI shall make reclaimed brownies. I shall make reclaimed brownies. These things are going to knock people out.

3:06:53SpeakerAll right, brownies. I love it, man. Mix it in with the butter. There you go.

3:07:02Etienne FontanAlready decarboxylated and ready for your ingestion.

3:07:06SpeakerYeah, yeah. Yeah, butter is my favorite solvent for cannabinoids.

3:07:12BubblemanReally?

3:07:13SpeakerGood old fashioned butter. Yeah.

3:07:17BubblemanButter it up. It sure works. I mean, everyone and their dog has a brownie story.

3:07:22Etienne FontanWhat's your favorite butter, Jeff? You know, we are all picky about, you know, what's your favorite? If you could, I know butter is expensive depending on the type, blend, etc. You know, if you could, what's your favorite type of butter to cook cannabis with?

3:07:36SpeakerI, um, uh, I lived in Vermont for five years, and so I remain loyal to the Cabot brand. Um,

3:07:47SpeakerAll right. And, uh, yeah. Um, so I, which, yeah, it is not one of the cheaper ones, but it is, uh, I, you know, I don't, I don't think anyone's going to argue that it's artisanal. Um, I don't, I don't, I don't feel that fancy when I buy it.

3:08:05BubblemanArtisanal butter.

3:08:07SpeakerYeah.

3:08:08Dr Mark ScialdoneSo are you talking about extracting flour?

3:08:12SpeakerYeah, yeah, yeah. But in this case, he was talking about making reclaim brownies because he's, Bubbleman pointed out that he has an estimated seven grams of reclaim in the bottom of his rig.

3:08:25BubblemanOh, wow.

3:08:25SpeakerThat's enough to make reclaim brownies.

3:08:27BubblemanYeah. Oh, yeah.

3:08:29SpeakerIt'll be, it'll be very, I just suggested, yeah, mix that in with the butter as you're melting it. Mm-mm, mm-mm.

3:08:38Dr Mark ScialdoneExactly.

3:08:39SpeakerLove me some love.

3:08:40Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, what I do at Reclaim is put them in the, so get yourself a bag of Tootsie Rolls.

3:08:47Dr Mark ScialdoneUndo the Tootsies. Save the wrappers. Save the wrappers, right? Put your Reclaim in a baking dish in your microwave. Put all the Tootsies in there. You know, nuke it, get the tootsies real nice with the reclaim, roll it up, make a new tootsie, cut it and wrap it up and you're good, right? That's hilarious.

3:09:11SpeakerYou are a wizard and also I love you a little bit more now.

3:09:21Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah, I mean, it's, yeah. Reclaim, so I did an HPLC test. Reclaim is mostly THC. There's a little bit of CBN. It depends on what your nail temperature is. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:09:51Dr Mark ScialdoneI had a ring that had a catcher on it. So the catcher was right underneath the nail. So it would basically catch all of your reclaim. And it was easy to kind of take out. You could just use like a heat gun or a torch to basically take it out. And so, yeah, when I tested it by HPLC and GC, it was about 4 or 5% CBN, but mostly Delta 9, no Delta 8 at all.

3:10:17Dr Mark ScialdoneI didn't see any Delta 8 in the reclaim. So I was like, holy shit, this stuff is rocket fuel. Good enough for, like you say, an edible or a brownie. And yeah, it's great in the Tootsie Rolls and anything. I use bacon fat, Jeff. Bacon fat.

3:10:36SpeakerProposition depends... Oh, yeah. Well, I would bet that the composition depends a whole lot on how clean your chamber is, right? Yeah.

3:10:45Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I think it depends on what your temperature is and like what any... Yeah, but there's surface chemistry that always determines these things. Yeah. I've seen like the nail that I have on my rig upstairs now, I tend to get a little bit of charring right down the throat. So I don't know if that means that, you know, there's more oxidation or stuff like that. But I was really surprised on how little CBN there is in there.

3:11:16Dr Mark ScialdoneI thought, oh, there's going to be just a lot of CBN in there, but no, not a lot.

3:11:21SpeakerIt turns out, yeah, everything that I've, every time I've measured and like, Everything I've done, like, and also the research I see, like, for some reason, we all have this assumption that you're going to make, like, that turning this stuff into CBN is like the drop of a hat. But that's almost, that's a really small portion of the yield from oxidation, from adventitious oxidation. Like, in order to make CBN selectively, you need a catalyst or you need a chemical oxidant that's specific.

3:11:50SpeakerWell, actually, Jeff, you could just take...

3:11:56Dr Mark ScialdoneThis is really kind of surprising to me, but we were taking just crude hemp extract that was, you know, it was, it wasn't compliant in THC. It had more than 0.3%. I want to say it had upward to like four or 5% THC. And what we did with that extract is we just bubbled air through it while heating and that completely removed All THC and converted it over to CBN without really dropping the CBD number.

3:12:32Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you could just convert THC into CBN in the presence of CBD without losing a lot of CBD. And we would do this- Bubbling room air. Yeah, we would do this just bubbling air. Well, it was at temperature, so like 110, 120. Oh, okay. Thank you for joining us.

3:13:16Dr Mark ScialdoneOvernight bubbling air through, all THC ended up becoming oxidized to CBN. And I got a jar of it. So then we would actually use that. Oh, so it's neat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We would use that crude and distill it and make what was called a tea-free distillate. There was no measurable THC in the distillate at all.

3:13:42Dr Mark ScialdoneSo-called the way of remediating.

3:13:44SpeakerThat's interesting that that works. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know that that worked. Yeah, yeah, you could do that. But the other thing I can tell you is that. It does make sense of the temperature in the neat. I mean, reactions change so much when you do them solventless. Holy shit. Yeah. Wow. It's such a, yeah. Neat reactions are neat.

3:14:05Dr Mark ScialdoneThe other thing I can tell you is that if you just take, whether it's Delta 8 or Delta 9, I think this works better with Delta 9. If you take Delta 9 THC in a solution of like xylene, Thank you.

3:14:37Dr Mark ScialdoneHydrogenation, right? So transfer hydrogenation just transfers the hydrogen from the THC molecule to some hydrogen acceptor. But I've done this reaction now where basically you could just boil it, put a bubbler on there, you know, like a mineral oil bubbler, and you'll see all the hydrogen coming off of the molecule. You're basically ripping hydrogen off of THC, converting it into CBN.

3:15:07Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, all right then.

3:15:09BubblemanTransfer hydrogenation. Take your word for it, man. I believe it. It sounds interesting.

3:15:15Dr Mark ScialdoneIsn't it cool? Chemistry is so much fun.

3:15:19BubblemanYeah, no, I love chemistry. I love the whole concept of it. I loved, I'll never forget reading Eric Drexler's book in 19... Fuck, I bet you I read that book before the 90s, like in 89 or 88, maybe when it was brand new. I don't know the year that book came out. It was called Engines of Creation. That's where he coined the term nanotechnology. And he was talking about assemblers and replicators and, you know, these like these microscopic...

3:15:52BubblemanYou know, nanoscopic machines that would assemble and replicate reality and stack atoms and just the whole concept of it was so insane, you know, to be able to do chemistry on that level with those types of, uh, I guess you could call them prosthetics, you know, to take you to a place you could not otherwise go and perceive on the same level. He wrote another book not too long ago called Radical Abundance.

3:16:22BubblemanAnd it was kind of a 25 to 30 year later conversation of what's changed and what's happened and how things are growing. It's interesting subjects. I love the, well, just like matter, you know, stacking matter, how all matter is just like, we're all just these different, you know, matter being stacked differently. And I ended up being a human and this ended up being a proxy. Could have gone either way.

3:16:53BubblemanMaybe this thing could have been a dog in another life. I don't know. I don't pretend to know. I think it's trippy though. It's like, no wonder the games like Minecraft are so popular. What do you do? You just build with blocks? You just build worlds? It's like, dude, the guy that created that game sold it for like, I don't even know what the number was, but it was absurd.

3:17:13BubblemanIt was billions of dollars.

3:17:15Etienne FontanBefore that, it was, you know, Lincoln Logs. Before that, it was Erector Sets, you know, all the, you know.

3:17:21BubblemanSimCity.

3:17:22Etienne FontanYou know, oh, yeah, SimCity, that was big shit growing up, right? You could actually... Legos. Legos. Somebody would destroy it accordingly. Oh, Legos, crazy.

3:17:32BubblemanDude, Legos are like $800 for a big box now. It's like you can't even... You're like... I was like, no, this can't be right.

3:17:39Etienne FontanThere's stores in the airport, though. I mean, it's crazy how much they want for these fucking things, man.

3:17:45BubblemanYeah, Lego's the real deal, man. Like, that is a good thing. That, you don't have to know much about much, but you just have to know that the psychology of that and giving that to kids to play with is, man.

3:17:57Etienne FontanBut is it that what Minecraft is, is, you know, digital Legos to a certain extent?

3:18:02BubblemanYeah, it is, 100%. It's just, it's no longer that, the same, it's not the simulation we were in. It's the new simulation. We still got to touch the Lego.

3:18:12SpeakerYeah, they were creating entire societies, right? The tactile element is important and different. It is valuable, but it's not the only element. You know, the abstract, like abstract thinking is also good, you know, and picturing stuff. And yeah, I think both of them are really neat.

3:18:31Etienne FontanYeah, conceptualizing and playing with it in your hand I think was integral. I love playing with clay a lot. I like shaping things into, because then I could make these dragons and other things I could see in my head that kind of digital edging that You know, working in Legos didn't allow you or these, I enjoy director sets a lot, but you're limited by, you know, the blocks that are there.

3:18:56Etienne FontanAnd so you imagine the other types of blocks or building things and, you know, according to Tinker Toys, remember Tinker Toys, right? Again, creative ways to take space and volume and then mimic or create the things that you don't have or didn't have or wish you had, right? We used to make little radio stations and pretend we were radio broadcasters with the Tinker Toys.

3:19:19BubblemanTune in Tokyo!

3:19:27Etienne FontanI had all that. Not that old. Jesus. You're pretty old, dude. I would do WTIX, which is a radio station in Orleans. And yeah, yeah, because we were into radio stations because my mom started a radio station for the blind by the blind. Right. So, you know, we were looking at our heroes and stuff like that, you know, fun stuff. But what did you play with as a kid, Mark?

3:19:50Etienne FontanYou know.

3:19:52Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, Lincoln Logs, Spirograph. Remember Spirograph?

3:19:58Etienne FontanYeah, yeah.

3:20:01Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I remember Etch-a-Sketch and trying to make a good thing on Etch-a-Sketch. It was really difficult, right?

3:20:09Etienne FontanDid you have one of those chemistry sets as a kid? Did you get one of those?

3:20:13Dr Mark ScialdoneI did. I did. I did, yeah. And that explains a lot, right? Because the first... The first experiment I did, I was told, first of all, not to play with it until my dad got home, right?

3:20:26Etienne FontanOh, for supervision, right, right.

3:20:29Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, right, right, I was told, and I... I took it out and yeah, I wanted, there was a picture of the kid on the front cover of the Gilbert chemistry set. I remember it was a metal case that unfolded and you had a little test tube rack and there was a little alcohol burner there. And so I took the little spatula, put the goggles on, the apron, the whole deal, added a little bit of all the solids to the test tube.

3:20:58Dr Mark ScialdoneNothing happened, right? So I added a little bit of the phenolphthalein. That's the acid indicator, you know, turn water into wine. Still nothing happened. So then I'm like, well, they're showing a picture of the kid holding the test tube over the alcohol lamp. So let me light the alcohol lamp on fire. So this is where things got interesting, ATN, right? So back in the day, this is like, you know, late 60s, right?

3:21:24Dr Mark ScialdoneSo... It's not like...

3:21:27BubblemanDamn, how old are you, dude?

3:21:29Dr Mark ScialdoneI know, how old am I?

3:21:33Dr Mark ScialdoneI had to get like a pack of matches from the cabinet up in the... or the drawer up in the kitchen, you know? My parents were both tobacco smokers and I knew where they kept matches. And so remember how when you lit a match in your house, you could smell it throughout the whole house? Yeah. So I went downstairs, lit the match, put the alcohol lamp on fire, and now I'm holding the test tube.

3:21:59Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm holding the test tube over the alcohol lamp, and it's starting to bubble and boil. I'm like, ooh, chemistry. Things are happening.

3:22:07Etienne FontanWait, you're holding it with your fingers?

3:22:09Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. And so then my mom, my mom must have smelt me light the can or light the light the match. Right. So she comes down the stairs. And when she did, I turned to see who was coming. And when that happened, I must have tilted the test tube ever so slightly. So it hit a hot spot on the test tube and all the stuff came out and shot this big blue-green flame to the ceiling and it singed my eyebrows, you know?

3:22:40Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it was the first time I had smelt burnt hair as a kid and my mom came down and she's like, that's it, you're done, you and chemistry, that's it, you're, that's it, you were supposed to wait till your dad got home, right? And I got the riot. I mean, there were literally this flame shot up. We had an unfinished basement. So we just had rafters up there.

3:23:03Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it didn't singe the ceiling tiles or anything, but it was just kind of like singed my hair. And yeah, now every time I smell burnt hair, ATN, it brings me back to that first chemistry experiment that I did.

3:23:18SpeakerGeorge Whitesides had a similar origin story for like why he was a chemist. And it was because he when he was a kid, he he lit a bunch of tires on fire in the garage to see what would happen, to see how they burned. And he found out.

3:23:34BubblemanYeah, endlessly.

3:23:38SpeakerYeah, I did the same thing. That's how they burned. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for me, it was, I had a chemistry set, I had Legos, and I, when I was a kid, like 11 or 12 even, I'm shocked that my parents let me do this, I would save up my allowance for like two or three months before the 4th of July, because these guys would show up and they'd set up these tents in In like in parking lots someplace and they'd sell fireworks that are otherwise like for some reason they would sell all the illegal fireworks in Florida if you just went to like the right tent like and I would buy all these fireworks and I would spread out newspapers on the floor of my bedroom and I'd cut them open and I'd remix all the different ingredients and see what the results were like and I would build like custom little tanks and stuff out of them and everything like oh You guys are maniacs.

3:24:34BubblemanI was playing hockey. I was playing hockey. I did that like six days a week. I'm from Manitoba. That's all we did was play hockey for eight months of the year. And then for four months of the year, we played soccer.

3:24:51Etienne FontanWell, remember, I burned down my house with my first confession candle and lied about it.

3:24:55BubblemanSo, you know, dude, my dad was a fireman. So like playing with fire, having a candle, having a lighter, talking about fire, thinking about fire, all resulted in the same thing. Don't even think about it. No, don't even think about fire. Full fire ass whooping. My dad had like Pulled burnt children out of fires and he'd seen some shit. So he had a zero tolerance fuck around for if you just wanted my very nice father to turn into a psychopath.

3:25:25BubblemanAll you had to do was just start playing with fire.

3:25:32BubblemanIt's not good. And you had hockey. And I had hockey and it's hard to play with fire when you're playing hockey. I will be honest.

3:25:42Etienne FontanYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd say it's really fucking hard.

3:25:45Dr Mark ScialdoneMarcus, when did you get fascinated with chemistry then? So after you started?

3:25:50BubblemanWell, I was always fascinated with mathematics and chemistry. I was reading Michio Kaku and other different books back in the late 80s. When I was a teenager, I got into it. I was very naturally good at mathematics and chemistry and the sciences in high school. I just like didn't have to do any work, didn't have to try it all. I could get a B plus, no problem.

3:26:14BubblemanIf I like even did like five minutes of studying, I'd get an A. And I just never really, you know, had the interest in the university aspect of studying it. But from a cannabis perspective, it happened pretty quick. Dave was definitely a big inspiration of that because I would have met Dave in my 20s. But even before that, I met one of my good friends, Martin, one of my sort of mentors, the founder of Manitoba Harvest and Fresh Hunt Foods, was he had his.

3:26:46BubblemanSome degree, I can't remember what it was. Maybe it was even just a Bachelor of Science or something as simple as that, but he was very intelligent. And so it was pretty early on. I was still a teenager, you know, smoking joints and getting high with Martin. He was probably already 28, 29 years old, maybe a good 10 years older than me. And very intelligent. And so pointing me towards books and pointing to me towards conversations and dialogues that we had together and then eating like five dried grams of mushrooms that we ordered from Terrence McKenna and like trip balls together at his house many, many times.

3:27:23BubblemanA lot of cool dialogues came from those things. And I would say that that was where my interest of just understanding of having an understanding of Of why when Terrence said, how come the deeper you go, the bigger it gets? And well, you know, chemistry is a great place to go for that answer.

3:27:48SpeakerEverything is so complicated. Yeah, exactly. It's when you get really deep into stuff, you find out it's way more complicated than you thought.

3:27:58BubblemanThat's it. That's it. And especially to get into things like, you know, the psychedelic aspect of things and the intense like discomfort that came from some of those experiences that my friends and I had together. We weren't like it wasn't a party drug for us. You know, it was I took once again, I took Terrence's one of my favorite Terrence McKenna quotes. About mushrooms is, what does he say?

3:28:22BubblemanHe says, these substances do not bathe the ego in a cloud of certitude. And I always thought that was an incredible quote. I was like, ain't that the fucking truth, Terrence? Holy shit. It's another great way of saying these are non-addictive substances.

3:28:40Etienne FontanIt gets really profound when you're in it and you're staring at your hand, right?

3:28:44BubblemanIt's just the polar opposite of, you know what I mean, addiction. Like, why do people get addicted to drugs? Because they bathe the ego in a cloud of certitude. Well, these psychedelic compounds, they do not. They do not do that. So if that's what you're looking for, these are probably not the right substances for you. However, if you would like to tear away all the fake and phony This that you've built into your life experience and being and have it stripped away in an instant and experience.

3:29:19BubblemanI don't want to say life, but experience, experience outside of the five cents prison. Yes, liberation would be a good term for that. Then there for you. And so, yeah, I had a lot of good times with them myself. We ate a lot of mushrooms and definitely I think my my urge for a lot of things. Once again, academia, the idea of going into school after school wasn't like a big, it was just, school wasn't hard for me.

3:29:47BubblemanI never really had difficulty at school. Plus, I sold everyone weed. It was like the most amazing place to meet all the groups. You know, I'd be like, I'd sell these Mettler dudes weed. And then I'd sell these Sporto dudes weed. And then I'd sell these like, you know, whatever the group was that, you know, so many of the groups didn't interact and communicate. Thank you for watching.

3:30:28BubblemanYeah, I wonder. Yeah, there's amazing people everywhere, man. I feel like the internet is where it feels the most divided. But when I go out in the world, the odd time I'll see like these interactions where someone's like, hey, you can't be on that skateboard on the road. And they'll just be like, have a weird little interaction where someone wants to police you. But otherwise, I do feel that's very accurate, Jeff, that most people are damn fine people.

3:31:00BubblemanAnd that's why the thing that I'm the most happy about in the legalization of cannabis here in Canada Is that you can give it away. You can give away hashish to anyone that's over the age of 19 or whatever it is in your province. I think there's some that are 18, maybe some that are 21. But you can give it away. Like my garbage, my green waste guys that come every week, I put like 50 to 70 bags out.

3:31:29BubblemanI go down there, I help them. My wife was like, oh, you should get them some beer. And I was like, oh yeah, I'll buy them beer. I don't even drink beer or like beer or Thank you so much for joining us.

3:32:04BubblemanAnd there's no problems. Maybe I won't be giving it to him while he's at work. Maybe that would be a problem. But I'll make sure to get him this hash when it's 100% legal and no problems for anyone. And I think that's one of my favorite things about cannabis legalization here in Canada. I can give up to an ounce of hash away to anyone. Every day, like multiple times.

3:32:28BubblemanI think I could give like an as long as it's I'm allowed medically to have 150 grams. Recreationally, we're allowed to have 28 grams out in public. So you could go to the store and buy 28 grams and bring it home. And then I believe you could go to the store and buy more and bring it home. Maybe your home amount is different, but we're only allowed to buy sort of starvation.

3:32:48BubblemanWell, I mean, I have kilos saved up here, man. I'm not fucking around.

3:32:54BubblemanI'm not fucking around. I pulled these rocks out recently, just these big rocks of hash that I had like a 10 pound bag of trim that a friend left here. And I moved that bag maybe five or six times, but I guess what happened was all of the heads in the bag like settled and congealed into these rocks. These rocks They are from a bag of trim that basically made itself.

3:33:24BubblemanThis hash made itself. Jake rocks. I call it a hashtag never touched hash. You just put the trim, you get really good trim from fucking Kevin from Royal Harvest. And yeah, I couldn't believe it, man. I was actually like, what the actual fuck? Is going on. That's insane. It's like also like four or 500 grams of hash rocks. Like they're not, they're not small. Do you know what I mean?

3:33:54BubblemanLike they're big hash rocks. They're nasty. I mean, they're probably only like 40% or 35% THC. I would have...

3:34:06BubblemanYeah, it was just from shake, but it would have been perfect material had it not congealed into those rocks. If I could have kept it cool and moisture low, I would have been able to statically use my plasmatic separator here that's on my table. I got my little R&D SC filtration unit here, which is a blast, running it through the two plates and having the positive and the negatives pull the heads and the contaminant and brushing off the heads.

3:34:33BubblemanIt is the most surreal thing to be able to take dry sift. We took some the other day. It was 23% was the dry sift and we ran it through this machine and it came out 44% after like literally like a two minute pass in this machine, which I was very impressed with. It more than doubled. The purity or the potency of the product. I don't know how much the purity went up.

3:34:57BubblemanI didn't check it with a microscope, but you just run it a few more times and you can really isolate the heads, can run it through a jet sieve or do Skunk Man Sam's static sifting trick over the 200 LPI screen and just purify to 99%, which is a pretty cool thing that people have the ability to buy a machine that does that now. I don't know if you guys have ever played with it, but listen, like solventless is incredible.

3:35:28BubblemanWe love solventless. And water hash, I'm a huge fan of. I never won't be. But the idea of the least footprint that you can leave, because obviously like the water is pulling things out. We spoke about that earlier, these phenolic compounds that Dr. Mark was showing. It's pulling something out. Dry sifting is not doing that. You're not pulling that stuff out because the water isn't being used.

3:35:55BubblemanSo it is another level of that sort of truest expression without, you know, I know all extraction processes to a degree leave a footprint of some form of another and water hash certainly does. And I'm certain that rosin will as well with the heat and the pressure that's involved. But purified dry sift, I would suspect leaves the least footprint. I would suspect if you were a detective following footprints, you would not want to follow the static sifted gland head purity footprint.

3:36:30BubblemanYou would want to follow some fucking solvent or some water extraction process. That would leave you a nicer, deeper set of footprints to follow. It's my opinion anyway. It's my opinion, damn it. And I'm allowed to share it.

3:36:50SpeakerGoddamn right. It's great seeing you guys. Yeah, you too, Jeff.

3:36:57BubblemanWell, thanks for coming in, brother. We appreciate you. I think we'll probably call it a day here soon. We have another 20 minutes. I guess we might as well go till 1 p.m. I know, Dr. Mark, I have something to say.

3:37:09BubblemanYeah, yeah, we know you do. How about...

3:37:16BubblemanWhat is the good conversation? Oh, yeah, right. What do you guys think is going on with I heard people talking about the schedule three thing? Is this just another baloney poo poo conversation? Or is there some form of giddiness? Is there? How do you guys feel living in America?

3:37:34BubblemanRick Wall.

3:37:35Etienne FontanYou know, I tried to actually get in my group.

3:37:37SpeakerVeterans Action Council, me and Michael Crouch tried to get in to the hearings.

3:37:44Etienne FontanWe inadvertently, through our conversations behind the scenes, spawned why there is rescheduling. In the first place, through the work that Mike's done internationally by changing international law. It basically stems from we made the U.S. Attorney General's Office aware that since medical cannabis is legal worldwide now, that it should be legal in all 50 states and territories. It is not. And so back back in the previous administration dealing with Merrick Garland's office, we spoke to then the head of the Office of National Drug Control Policy.

3:38:24Etienne FontanAnd made them aware that you're out of compliance with the international law because you used to beat us over the head. And why does that matter, people? Well, my friends, John Getman and Normal and various others worked on rescheduling for decades and were unsuccessful because in the end, the DEA throws up its hands and says, the treaty, sorry, the treaty is the problem. We can't change because of this treaty.

3:38:53Etienne FontanSo Michael and them realize, okay, then let's go at the treaty. And so what did they do? They changed the fucking treaty. And you know what the United States did? The United States went, oh, no, no, that's not a significant change in the treaty. It's not significant enough to warrant any measure of change. Well, There's a little loophole in the United States that the U.S. Attorney General can reclassify any drugs at any time.

3:39:25Etienne FontanHe has that law because any of those analogs, and if you look every year at the U.N., they make these analogs, usually meth, etc. Analogs, they make them illegal. They put them into Schedule 4, which is Schedule 1 in the United States, which is the worst and evil and bad. Well... Once they got it pulled from Schedule 4 at the world level and the United States was made aware, as stated, they decided to ignore it outright.

3:39:52Etienne FontanSo we reminded them they needed to change. And then shortly after, they decided to have rescheduling. So rescheduling was going down its merry way. They selected a... Administrative law judge who when we vetted and looked at that person, he seemed to be very fair. He had actually been fucked with by the DEA for calling out the DEA in the past for their many years of indiscriminate, you know, bad shit that they did.

3:40:26Etienne FontanAnd eventually, unfortunately, due to the delays and tactics done by our side, it caused change in administration. And that change in administration, of course, as we've seen, dragged its feet and now has appointed a draconian Drug Enforcement Agency person who would have loved to have been DEA head of back in the 80s because he speaks the same Unfortunately regimented verbiage and unfortunately puts us in the position of questioning fairness, right?

3:41:06Etienne FontanBecause the reason that it got delayed is because one of our lawyers on our side felt that Kevin Sabet and the DEA were having side conversations on how to game the system. And they judge wanted to look into it. And the judge was like, oh, shit, there may be something here. I'm going to delay until this gets figured out. And it got delayed. And now that judge has retired because he hit the age of retirement.

3:41:37Etienne FontanAnd he's like, I'm out. And unfortunately, just the other week, the DEA decided to not fund the administrative law judge position, which you need an administrative law judge to actually oversee the proceedings. I think there's a bit of talking out of their ass once again where they're saying something that they're going to do something. But will we see real action? I don't know. Now, Schedule 3, that whole discussion, we don't like Schedule 3.

3:42:08Etienne FontanPeople are all worried that everything in the medical states is going to change, and that's not going to change. You have to understand is that even in Schedule 1, pharmaceutical companies have had access to medical cannabis. The individual 10th Amendment state realities are not going away. So there's a fear that if that Schedule 3 happens, then it's again, if you look at how things go in the amount of scheduling.

3:42:32Etienne FontanIt would only be allowed through a pharmacy, right? Well, we only know there's one state I think for sure that's doing it out of a pharmacy system, and that's Louisiana. And that's a dysfunctional system outright compared to the other 40 plus states here in the United States. Again, let me remind you and everybody that none of these 10th Amendment realities are the same. No state has the exact same laws and realities.

3:42:58Etienne FontanSo it makes it... A huge problem where compared to Canada, you have one universal law, right? That protects the people, right?

3:43:08BubblemanWell, no, we have one universal law for rec and we have one universal law for medical, but they're not the same laws.

3:43:17Etienne FontanOkay. Let me clarify. I was wrong there. So I said corrected. So here in the United States, we need to go through the procedure of rescheduling, which of course now they've appointed this new DEA person. They say that they're ready to move forward with rescheduling. But That really isn't a discussion that's happening because we've seen again through the previous model or the current model in play, they have created Nabilone, And, you know, all the other Epidiolex and every other pharmaceutical that, again, nobody wants.

3:43:55Etienne FontanEverybody still goes to their local 10th Amendment realities to purchase their cannabis, either from the legal source or a source that is non-taxed on the side, right? Traditional market sort of stuff, as we call it, right? So you've got a large contingency here in the United States, Marcus, that has grown into cannabis. And you're seeing a lot of studies about these cannabis drinks because due to a loophole that happened in 2018 to the farm bill, there's been allowed to have these cannabis products come out and be on the market to the point where Pretty much, I bet you Mark Sheldon and I can go to probably the same chain of liquor stores in his state and my state, and there will be the same THC CBD product on the market as a drink, right?

3:44:49Etienne FontanAnd that drink is cheaper than my drink. Dispensary, which would carry that same drink and was actually regulated to do so. So we've got a large contingent of an explosion of these products, good or bad. OK, because we know there's a lot of nefarious products out there that have spawned a huge market to where. That market is paying kickbacks, right? And those kickbacks are being to politicians at the state level.

3:45:21Etienne FontanWe saw it happen in Texas where there was a revolt where the governor decided to not. So now there is a movement within the legislature to step on the governor, right? So you've got the will of the people. You've got the will of the politicians again battling. And Republicans say they're states' rights, but in actuality, it's not starting to look that way in many results. And whether it moves to rescheduling, again, temper yourselves, people.

3:45:50Etienne FontanEven once rescheduling goes through the hearings, it's going to take years to get implemented. It's a three to four year process. It's not a quick thing. And even once it moves to schedule three, which my group, Veterans Action Council, believes that it should be descheduled. It shouldn't be on scheduling. But, you know, people believe that and there's discussions around schedule five. And that's why My group tried to get in to testify, Marcus, is because we wanted to actually speak towards schedule five or de-scheduling.

3:46:22Etienne FontanBecause worst case scenario, I've been doing schedule five for, which is over the counter. And I've been doing over the counter for 26 years now, right? So I have an established understanding of efficacy and safety of and around this product, right? So I it's really just I'm not sure what's going to happen. I think it's more talk than action is going to happen. Unfortunately, we're going to have to wait out till another administration, which to again, will kickstart this product.

3:46:55Etienne FontanI mean, this this process of actually taking place. Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:47:25Etienne FontanThank you for watching.

3:47:44Etienne FontanIt would have to be tested in the courts and then it would be moved into. Whereas currently the USAG, currently Pam Bondi, who I have written and my group, pardon me, our group, the Veterans Action Council, have written her and made her aware of the same thing we made my garland of. You asked a very complicated question, bubble man, that had no simple answer, but I hope I kind of laid it out easy enough for you and everybody to understand.

3:48:15Etienne FontanI know it's crazy, but if it's going to happen, it's going to get rescheduled to three. It's not the boogeyman that everybody says it is. It affects companies like myself because it moves it out of schedule one and two. And then schedule one and two is where we get hit with this thing called 280E, which is a tax code where we're actually taxed 70% of everything that we do sales-wise in the United States.

3:48:44Etienne FontanSo many layers to this onion. And we're working on that as well as we've got groups working on banking as well. But Because we don't have that legal federal protection, we have to be like an octopus fighting these and punching with all these different arms in these different areas. And we have to punch clear, concisely and perfectly every time. Because if we miss, your arm goes limp for about another four to six years before it gets enough strength to take that punch again, if that makes any sense.

3:49:19BubblemanOuch. Yeah, no, it does for sure. Well, hopefully it's good. Hopefully something moves down the road. It would be huge for cannabis in the world for America to federally legalize it. It would be a massive, massive blow to prohibition worldwide. And we're waiting for it. You know, I mean, fuck, both sides, your bookends, Mexico and Canada, we're pumping it out.

3:49:47Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, the only thing that I would say is that I think, you know, you know, it's not dangerous, so it doesn't need to be controlled. So it shouldn't be under control, dangerous substance act. And I think that Booth mids grown by some big pharma acquired MSO needing a doctor's prescription sold at a drugstore is going to fail with the trap market winning all day long. So you're talking about New York before.

3:50:21Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was interesting. Colin wasn't on today. Colin participates in New York with New York. I mean, the the trap market there is so endemic. I mean, it's like if you go to Manhattan these days, 10 years ago, it would smell like urine and chestnuts and pretzels. Now it smells like weed because there's five stores on every block in Manhattan. Selling weed and it's like it's not like a weed store it's just like a convenience store that just oh yeah by the way they sell weed you know and it all comes from California you know.

3:51:02Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I, yeah, I don't know. I think, you know, rescheduling is wrong. My own personal opinion. Hey, if it increases access to patients, that's great. Takes away 280E, that's great. But ultimately the trap market's going to end up winning until they completely, you know, deschedule it. It should be deschedule or bust, you know.

3:51:25BubblemanThat's what everyone in the chat is saying for sure.

3:51:28Etienne FontanAnd grow your own, right?

3:51:30BubblemanBut when you say bust, when you say bust, what you're saying is it should be de-schedule or leave it as schedule one. That's really what that statement says. And I don't know if that's...

3:51:40Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, no, I like, like when they used to paint California or bus, that was like, you know, they used to paint it on their covered wagons going West. Like we're either going to make it to California or we ain't going to make it at all. So it's kind of like, yeah, in that respect, I understand what you're saying, Mark, leave it on schedule one. But like right now, like we got to remember that, um, At least in Washington, DC, I'm sure it's different in Ottawa, but in Washington, DC, four out of five paid lobbyists are paid by the pharmaceutical, alcohol, big food and consumer products industries that just want to keep cannabis illegal because they're making a lot of money Keeping it illegal.

3:52:34Dr Mark ScialdoneThe other industry that plays into this is the drug testing industry. It's a big industry. It's like a billion dollar industry. All those people who have to piss in the cup every Monday. So the industries that are making money, maintaining prohibition, they don't want things to change at all. For Big Beverage, I don't know what you think, ATN, but I think like for Big Beverage, this is such an easy play for them because they already have the distribution networks.

3:53:07Dr Mark ScialdoneThey already have the retail. For them to add cannabis beverages as another set of skews, not a big issue for them. To them, it's like almost like another flavor. So it makes sense in reducing cannabis to, oh, it's just an ingredient that's gonna go into these flavored Thank you so much for joining us.

3:53:58Dr Mark ScialdoneLike you could be in a Walmart and you could get mass produced Budweiser swill that just tastes like crap. But you could also at that Walmart get a locally brewed micro brew that's got, you know, good flavor to it. It's in keeping money in your local economy and that it's employing a local brewery. You might even know the people.

3:54:24BubblemanUnless Budweiser owns it, but that's not. Yeah, right. And by the way, your billion dollar assumption of the drug testing market in the U.S., it is estimated to be worth $8.64 billion as of this year. $8.64 billion. With a 4.8% growth.

3:54:43BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

3:55:00Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's not an alternative currency, but could I use it to barter? And just like the person who, I don't know, has got the dairy farm, who's got all kinds of dairy products, could that person barter with a guy who's got a cannabis farm on the other side of the hill? I mean, I guess what you'd like to think, at least, is that cannabis descheduling Thank you so much.

3:55:56Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, once it's completely descheduled, people will have the opportunity to say, I can grow my own or I can go to my guy who's been growing it for years and he grows really good weed. Or you know what? I'm going to go to the dispensary and I'm going to get some dispensary. So I think you should have the freedom to do all of the above, right?

3:56:23BubblemanI like it. I like Dr. Allen's I smell freedom.

3:56:30BubblemanThat's the kind of freedom I can get behind.

3:56:31SpeakerI appreciate you guys hanging out till the end. I think I'm going to...

3:56:37BubblemanCut it short here. Thank you everyone for watching the whole crew bingo for holding down the chat. Thanks Press Club for doing the giveaway and sponsoring Hash Church. Thank you to Puffco and Bubble Bags for also sponsoring Hash Church and supporting us. And yeah, for those of you that maybe might not know, I meant to mention this, Wade's

3:57:03BubblemanGoFundMe. The number on the GoFundMe was set to $50,000. It's been about 40,000 that's been donated so far.

3:57:16BubblemanThey don't get that money until they hit their number. So she hasn't received a penny of that money. There's about $10,000 left. And so it is the one that's called Help Wade Get Essential Home Care. And I'm going to put it up in the chat here real quick so that if you have the ability, anything is going to be helpful. Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:58:04BubblemanYou know, additional grief and suffering from him being gone because of a monetary thing. If we can get this over, if we can get this 10 grand over and up to that 50,000 number, the money will be released to her and she'll be able to pay off all these super important things and have an enormous amount of less stress in her life. So I put that up in the chat and I am going to put it into the chat.

3:58:30BubblemanDescription of this video with a little mention and anything that you guys can do would be super helpful. I know that Puffco kicked down large in that 30 to 40 grand. I know that a lot of people from the community have kicked down. So definitely thank you for that from Wade and Monica and All the people who love them. And I guess we will gather again next week here at Hash Church.

3:59:01BubblemanMay the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later. And if it does, I hope your bowl's a Puffco. I know mine is. The Bowlman. You see that? Yeah, Bowlman. Thanks, Hemperco. Got the Bowlman on my Puffco. Thanks, Etienne. Thanks, Dr. Mark. We'll talk to you guys soon. Blessings.