California Regulation and Patient Stories

0:02BubblemanHey guys, welcome to Hash Church episode 51. One away from a year of Hash Church if you guys can imagine. I'm totally blown away. Stoked that you guys have all spent your time with us here and we're going to have a nice episode today. Just got to do my regular send the links out. See if I can get that done without messing this up. Always try to... Oh, there we go.

0:29BubblemanPause that so I don't have to hear my voice. All right, so sent out the link that way, sent out the link this way. Right on. We'll see who comes in first. I'm going to put money on, I'd say Nick and Etienne, not in that order. So anyway, welcome everyone. I hope that you guys had a wonderful week last week. Etienne takes the cake. He wins. He's always first.

0:55BubblemanHey, hey, hey, hey. Thank you always for showing up so early, dude. It's so much of an appreciation to be able to have someone to talk to in that morning. I was just welcoming everyone from a week off. It's been seven days since last we joined up for some hashucation.

1:16Etienne FontanRight on, right on. And top of that, things have happened in the last week up in Canada. As well as in California. So where do you want to start, buddy?

1:27BubblemanGeez, you know, I guess, you know, you're in California. I bet you Nick's going to come in real soon because I saw him in chat there. So why don't we start with California just in case I can manage to get Hillary or someone else from Canada to come and share what's going on with us. But... Yeah, you got an invite, Cuban, of course. I send you an invite every morning.

1:52BubblemanYou always get your invite. It goes out in the mail, and check your junk mail, maybe. But yeah, let's start with Cali, dude.

2:00Etienne FontanAll right, so historic regulation passed the legislature just the other day. So basically what we're looking at is a... I don't hear you anymore. Welcome, Nick. Welcome, guys. How are you? Not too bad. I had Etienne talking there.

2:44NickIt looks like you might have dropped off. You know, I'm really excited as being part of the California industry. This is something that we have been wanting and needing for the last 19 years. It's been the wild west in California, and it's about to change. There's going to be some licenses issued. Part of the thing that I was reading up on is you can own multiple licenses, but there are going to be some stipulations where you can't be a distributor and a grower at the same time.

3:21NickYou're able to have a grow and be a concentrate producer at the same time, but there are definitely going to be some stipulations that they put in there, so...

3:30BubblemanHey, welcome, Preston. How do we know Preston?

3:35NickI invited Preston in to share his story. He is living in Colorado currently at 13. I said I'll let him get into his story, but I started helping him when he was a patient at Harborside about three and a half years ago. He moved with his family out to Colorado and has been... Taking over the control of his health with a more homeopathic care.

4:04SpeakerMuch more holistic, yep, yep. So do you just want me to start off sharing my story where it all started? Do it up, brother! And welcome to Hash Church.

4:15BubblemanWe're happy to have you here this morning on episode 51. Thanks, man.

4:21SpeakerUgh.

4:27Etienne FontanAll right.

4:31BubblemanColorado Chronicle says, hey, Preston. Oh, really?

4:36SpeakerThat's cool. Yeah. Yeah, just get into it. Just get into it? Yeah, get into it. All right. So at 12, what happened is I broke my arm. And it wasn't healing right in the cast, so what happened is they diagnosed me with something called CRPS, which is complex regional pain syndrome, and what that is is constant nerve pain. So your brain is firing off signals that you're in constant pain, but really you're not.

5:04SpeakerSo some doctors think it's all in your head, some think it's not, but it's not physical, it's all in your head, if that makes sense.

5:15BubblemanIt's not actually deteriorating the nerves or the muscles or anything, but the pain is firing in your brain.

5:22SpeakerYeah, it's firing up. It has constant adrenaline pumping through my body, and that's what causes the pain, flares, and all that. So once I got diagnosed, I started taking all these opiates and benzos, downers, muscle relaxants, sleep aids. Nothing was helping.

5:44SpeakerAt 14 is when I went to a headache doctor actually. I was in headaches because the pain was so bad. And he finally said, you know, you're on like four different types of opiates. You're on 45 milligrams of volume at one time. You know, he said, you're going to try cannabis. And so the next day I got my card and it broke my headache and I wasn't in pain.

6:08SpeakerAnd after that I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. And Ever since then, you know, I started going to Harborside, and that's how I met Nick. And he was just a huge help to me, you know, helping me find the right strains, telling me about CBD, CBN, THCA, all that stuff, you know. Thank you for watching.

6:52SpeakerCurrently, I'm on no opiates, no sleep aids, nothing. It's just full-spectrum oil caps, dabs, and Carquin, Torebora, strains like that, and CBD. But yeah, it's so much better than going the pharmaceutical route. I mean, I was a zombie on those meds, but with this.

7:18BubblemanWhat was the worst pharmaceutical drug that you were on? What was the hardest to get off? The one that was just like, how could they give this to anyone?

7:26SpeakerDr. Oxycontin. Oxycontin was the one. The one they give to everyone. Dr. Yeah, the one they give to everyone. It's like their first choice. They put me on that after surgery and it just screwed up my GI tract. I mean, and that's actually what started, I'm going to tell you my second diagnosis. It started something called gastrophoresis. My stomach's paralyzed. It doesn't move food at all. And Part of that is from CRPS, and part of that was also from extensive opiate use over time, slowing down the GI tract, killing it, you know, all those nasty side effects.

8:07SpeakerCan you bring that back?

8:11BubblemanOne more time? Can you bring that back? Can you regain the use of that?

8:17SpeakerSystem? No, I unfortunately can't. It was so bad. They had to go into my stomach and cut the vagus nerve. And they actually put a hole in my stomach to just let food by gravity move because my muscles and my stomach don't contract. But I thought I was in cannabis. I mean, I would throw up every time after I ate. But if I take a couple of dabs before I eat and take a full spectrum cap, I'll be fine.

8:49SpeakerAnd it's awesome because I was down to 90 pounds. Wow. Yeah, it was bad. I was on a feeding tube. I was on TPN.

8:58BubblemanYeah, that's wasting.

9:01SpeakerYeah, I was wasting away, literally. And that's, yeah, yeah, it was bad. But, yeah, that was bad.

9:13BubblemanWell, you know, it's like the good comes from the bad. It's things like that that drives guys like Nick to want to help you find that strain and that profile and all of those different things because it's when it's just so bad that it's like you can't ignore it. You have to be like, this is insane. Like, how should any single human being suffer like that? And then to be given drugs that produce more suffering than they produce relief, well, I guess it's like Kid Asai says, We're living in a topsy-turvy world.

9:47SpeakerYeah, yes we are, man. But the funny part was, opiates don't even work for CRPS, and they were putting me on them. It doesn't work for anything. It only works for, you know, like muscle aches and stuff.

10:00BubblemanI heard it's actually quite profitable as well. I'm guessing that's what they were going for.

10:05SpeakerYeah, actually, I mean, I like my doctor, but he got paid by an OxyContin company for To put patients on it, I didn't really agree with that whatsoever, but he was a good guy. But I didn't agree with that, because he put kids on it, so, like, 13-year-olds.

10:24BubblemanIt seems like a pretty serious conflict of interest when your Hippocratic Oath is to do no harm.

10:29SpeakerYeah, I know.

10:31BubblemanYou know, but OxyContin is almost, one day it might be another word for harm.

10:36SpeakerYeah, because, honestly... I mean, there is a use for it if you're, you know, seriously terminally ill and there's nothing left. You know, maybe, you know, that's okay. But if you don't have something terminal, and I'm not calling anyone out or saying anything, but I'm just, I don't think opiates are a good way to manage symptoms because it will just create more pain.

11:01BubblemanIt's short-term pain. It's like you had your arm ripped off. Go on some opiates for a short period of time.

11:07SpeakerYeah, that's what they do in the ER. They pump you full of opiates for a couple of hours, send you home, and then later you're back to where you started, you know?

11:17BubblemanWell, it's all really, it's still, we're still in that place where we can give super thanks to guys like Steve D'Angelo and Etienne and all these other guys that are starting these incredible places. That are making it available to people like yourself. That is a very, very important factor that the big business coming in, they want to sort of, you know, say, oh, hey, we're going to do this now.

11:44BubblemanIt's okay. You guys can stop. And I really... Because they say that, most people react to them as, we don't want them, we don't want larger companies doing this, whereas I think we need both. I think we need to stop dividing our community and really have as many ways as possible to have clean, safe, efficient medicine available. For people like yourself, for people like myself, for people like all of us on the panel and all the many people watching, it's an important factor for us to have and I don't think we're ever going to get that with a single model or a single arrow, if you will.

12:24BubblemanI always go back to my quiver because I like the metaphor of I like more than one shot at things and so if I want more than one shot, I'm going to put more than one arrow into my quiver and certainly not roll around with a single arrow.

12:38Etienne FontanWell, that's why we carry so many diverse types of medicine because one variety doesn't work for everyone. You know, same thing, you know. It's about diversity. And we've been very fortunate to be able to do that and we'll continue to do that as best as we can given the new regulations that are happening here in California. Yeah. But it doesn't stop why Preston's and other patients have given testimony.

13:07Etienne FontanAnd these are the motivators. These are the ones that make us risk our freedoms for the past now 16 years. And here in a couple weeks when Moonbeam actually signs the legislation, we're going to finally be legal after 16 years.

13:26Etienne FontanYeah, I don't know if you want me to go into California. I missed that earlier.

13:29BubblemanYeah, I want to talk a little bit about California. I mean, California's obviously helped out Preston a fair amount with a guy like Nick. Nick's in the room.

13:40Etienne FontanLet's do it. The state of California is getting ready to start a Bureau of Medical Marijuana Regulation. And that is basically going to be the state regulated agency. We're going to fall under multiple agencies, Department of Agriculture, etc., etc. You will be able to go for organic certification, but the reality is that you are going to have to have local authorization and a permit before you can get a permit from the state.

14:13Etienne FontanSo it's going to be a two-tier system. You have to be locally accepted, and you have to have a local permit, then the state will issue it. There will be manufacturing licenses for concentrates. A Manufacture 1 license is for non-solvent extracts. Manufacture 2 license is for solvent extracts and will be limited by the state. So because there's no regulations, there are no specificities on what the actual chemicals or etc.

14:47Etienne Fontanare known. But at this time, this is what we have. We are concerned. Patients are now limited to 100 square feet gross. It's now a crime to share a joint from your garden with anyone. You're no longer allowed more than six plants unless local legislature. And you have to use your regular doctors for your recommendations. You cannot just go to a doc in the box anymore. You have to use your regular physician.

15:14Etienne FontanSo one of the things this did is it ratcheted up The doctor-patient relationship, from my understanding, it is that they're looking at legalization coming down the pike in 2016, and they just want to protect the patients after seeing what's happened with Washington and Colorado. So it does establish some rights, reality, that you can no longer, as a patient cultivar, come to me as a dispensary to... Actually sell your cannabis to me.

15:52Etienne FontanThere is now an actual distributor network that will be set up. I can own a dispensary. I can own a manufacturing. I can't own a distributorship. I can own a distributorship, but I can't own a dispensary and manufacture, etc., They're trying to keep a separation of church and state, but at the same time there are levels being built in. Of course, this is going to cause rises in costs.

16:19Etienne FontanYou have to be a licensed grower. You can do delivery. Delivery is allowed in areas where jurisdictions have banned cannabis. You can do delivery, and they are allowing for delivery. To do delivery, you just have to carry a copy of your actual... Suppliers distribution letter that is issued by the state. So some of these things are very workable. Some of these things are not very workable. This was done by prohibitionists in Sacramento.

16:52Etienne FontanSo the penalties and the increasing in fines, if you are caught with an illegal grow, I do believe they're doubling the penalties and fines. This is the part where we had the police officers in there actually making the legislation. So this is rather frustrating. As I said, some of these, some parts of this are workable. Some of these, as I said, do it being rushed through the legislation are not very realiztic.

17:19Etienne FontanAnd realize this is going to roll out over a couple of years. It's not going immediately into effect, but The clock is starting for you locally for your licenses to start looking at what you're doing. I don't know how to get a manufacturer's license, a one or a two yet. I don't know how much it costs or when those accesses will come. They will come in time.

17:41Etienne FontanWe all know that. But that's kind of a quick overview. Of course, it's three different documents. One's 47 pages. And all kind of legalese inside of it. And I still have not absorbed all of it. And I don't think anybody really has. And it's going to take some time. But we anticipate that the governor is going to have an official ceremony because there was a lot of brouhaha in bringing this together.

18:06Etienne FontanSo there will most likely be a brouhaha ceremony where he'll come out and he'll sign it. So stay tuned. Mom and pops, I'm not sure. As I said, the six-plant limit is back in effect. Unless local jurisdictions, Los Angeles will be able to maintain its moratoriums, and the other cities and local municipalities who have banned cannabis get to keep their moratoriums. This is also the frustration of having the law enforcement in there and lobbying.

18:38Etienne FontanWe were shut out in the 11th hour and had no access to change this document. We're very fortunate. We had some good people that we've educated on the inside to get some of the positive things, but... Unfortunately, you know, it's not a perfect document. Nothing we got is going to be perfect. People are going to like some parts of it. People are not going to like other parts of it.

19:00Etienne FontanPeople love certain aspects and are going to hate other aspects of it. But this is what we have right now, and this is the first time we're having any type of regulation in almost 20 years of actually having the law. I don't know if the feds are going to back off. People ask, well, since they asked for regulations, will they back off? I have no idea. I have no idea what it applies to my case in any way, shape, or form.

19:23Etienne FontanBut the reality is the clock is stopping. It started now for you to figure out where you are, what you're doing, and where you are in the chain. Because the implementation, I do believe, officially kicks in on 2018. But some of those provisions, again, will kick in before.

19:41SpeakerI don't want to sound like a total naysayer, but you know, them trying to limit the scope of the voter approved initiative again, I don't think is going to work, because they tried to limit the scope of how many plants we could have, and they busted one guy named Patrick Kelly who appealed this case, and all three judges on the appellate panel were The first thing they looked at was where does the number six come from, and they figured it out that it was from SB 420, and they basically wrote that the state legislature does not have the power to limit the scope of the initiative.

20:11SpeakerAnd then when LA appealed it and went to nine judges, all nine judges backed that up.

20:16Etienne FontanIn the language, it does not limit 215, it allows 215 to be itself. It does put the six-plant limit, though. And yes, there's challenges in court and there's aspects of all through this because it also mandatory labor agreements which is against the law in California will be sued and will be taken out. I love that they socialize cannabis before anything else.

20:39SpeakerYou know, doctors, dentists. I agree with you.

20:41Etienne FontanJust letting you know what the law is.

20:43SpeakerI know. I'm not only picking on you.

20:47NickNow, ATN, how does this affect... How does this affect the ban that Fresno County has put on cultivation? Because I know you said that they're still able to ban dispensaries in areas that have banned sales of cannabis.

21:01Etienne FontanAny local ban on grows or dispensaries will continue. Unless you came to... Look, I agree, it sucks. I hate it, people. I'm not here sitting there promoting this as the fucking great thing that I want to fucking jump up and down about. I don't. I'm just trying to educate you because I don't like it either. I don't like what it limits my patient or makes more criminal codes.

21:22Etienne FontanThat's fucking bullshit. You shouldn't put more fucking penalties on patients just for self-growing. Fuck that shit.

21:28Archive SeedsYeah.

21:31Etienne FontanI'll back off.

21:31SpeakerI'm angry. Six plants, same shit. Licenses, same shit. You know what I mean? The penalties, almost the same. You know what I mean? Come on, man. That's not cool. That sucks.

21:45BubblemanWhat about Canada? Our Health Canada just sent the local Compassion Club and 12 other dispensaries across Canada, including one in Saskatchewan. Threatening letters that if, this is the federal government, okay? Federal government sent them letters saying, if you don't cease and desist, stop doing business completely, we're going to fine you $5 million and put you in prison for five years, and they received these letters about a week ago, and they have 30 days to comply.

22:14BubblemanSo you guys still got it better than what we're dealing with right now. Holy shit.

22:21SpeakerAt least they told you ahead of time, kind of like they told the shops over here, about 60% of all the medical shops closed. And now they have to pay back taxes when it used to be, A donation-based, like, non-for-profit for many years, you know, not charging taxes. Well, now a lot of people are facing mandatory tax, getting shut down. Just, it's kind of crazy, man. All to funnel money towards recreational so the state can make the money.

22:48Etienne FontanLand of the free, home of the brave. Bullshit. It's more like land of the fee, home of the paved. It's just, you know, it's going to be frustrating. And trust me, I don't mean to yell at anybody. I'm just frustrated by these laws as well because They're shoved down our throat at the 11th hour, and I can't change it. And this is what we have to live at.

23:06Etienne FontanBut at the same time, I was very frustrated this week to see Hillary's post that they all got served by Harper's government, threatening them with five years in jail, $5 million fines. So I think that was basically in 2007, and we ignored the, you know, when it came out, we actually put those letters on our wall, and it wasn't until, what, in 2012 that they came And they ratcheted it up where they went after my landlord and then my bank, the landlord for the bank, who my landlord was taking the loan for the property I was on and threatened to take the bank.

23:40Etienne FontanThey've learned how to ratchet and escalate things up when they want to, but I hope it doesn't come to that for you guys. Because you at least have a medical system federally. We don't even have that.

23:49BubblemanAnd that's kind of what they're trying to protect, the big business aspect of it. But the bottom line is, and someone just mentioned this in chat about this law, it's actually $5 million a day. A day?

24:03BubblemanThat would ratchet it up pretty hard.

24:06SpeakerThat pretty much makes your conscience think, you know, like I have to close down no matter what. That's pretty much what they're making you realize. Stay open one day, $5 million. You think somebody's going to stay open after that one hit of the $5 million? Man, you got to be rich as shit to stay open. Can I point out something, man? Fuck that $5 million. You know, the threat when I was fighting this was go to prison for 10 years, mandatory minimum, and I did five.

24:32SpeakerI mean, we've got to stand up for our rights. And you know what? If you get scared because they might fine you or put you in prison a little while, you should go be a shoe salesman because that's a nice industry.

24:42BubblemanThat's exactly what they do. The $5 million fine a day, it also comes with a five-year prison sentence. So, I mean, it's definitely...

24:50SpeakerI almost feel like this, and I don't want to sound like a jerk to say it, but the more they push us, the more it's going to bite back. Because the more they oppress us, when everybody's walking around with smartphones and can look up their lies, I think it's going to get to a point where politicians and the police, they can't do this anymore like they used to do it because too many people know what's up.

25:09SpeakerToo many people have... Access to instant information now and all this bullshit of being able to kick our ass is coming to a severe halt for them. And I think what they're doing in Canada is a last grasp to try to basically oppress a community that's been flourishing for almost two decades. And they're going to lose. So back in the early years, let's say 90s and the 2000s, right, when like my family was growing, yeah, you faced prison, but it was to do what you loved, right, to be able to grow.

25:38SpeakerBut now in 2015, when I moved from Florida to Washington and people moved from other places to California and you go to not get locked up, you know what I'm saying, to be able to do something the right way, start your family and shit, when they changed the laws, that's fucked up. It's like, okay, the options are move somewhere and try to keep on your hustle without getting locked up, Or stand your ground and face the storm.

26:02SpeakerIt's not like when I was in Florida that it was face the storm or don't do shit. You know what I mean? And I know what you mean. In all irony, I was living in Amsterdam when 2015 changed and I had the good fortune of having Dennis Perrone and John Etwistle spend a week with me over Thanksgiving after the passage. And part of the reason I moved back from Amsterdam, because I believed in the law.

26:21SpeakerI believed that when the law changed, it would be acknowledged, and that it would be honored, and that there would be a line of respect for democracy. I was completely wrong, of course. But, you know, that was the theory to me, too, 19 years ago when I came home. Yay! We're legal now. I won't get in trouble.

26:38BubblemanThanks for being in Amsterdam, a.k.a. the Cannabis Cup.

26:42SpeakerSo check this out, bro. In Washington, these laws passed with, like... Thank you for watching.

27:06SpeakerThank you for watching.

27:23SpeakerWhy does that get put into effect without the say of the grower? That's the person that they're trying to regulate is the grower and the hasher and the whole industry. Well, that's the easy answer. We got no voice, man. We got no community that lobbies. We got no money behind us. I mean, we're only in our infancy of being able to get our shit together. I mean, we have here what's called the National Cannabis Industries Association, but it's only been around since 2010, and it's under 1,000 businesses that are supporting it right now.

27:50SpeakerSo we don't even have one one hundredth of the type of political clout that our opposition has.

27:57Etienne FontanThat's the facts. I know because I work with the NCIA and I have the only two lobbyists that are up on Capitol Hill. And two lobbyists on Capitol Hill compared to the thousand plus pharmaceutical lobbyists? Talk about throwing sand into the ocean.

28:17SpeakerYeah, and honestly, I've been hearing about these laws for the past, let's say, the longest three months, right? But how long has it really been brewing in the pipelines that people have been meeting and putting these documents together to get it moving? You know what I'm saying? Probably a lot longer than most people have even known it was in effect, which is pretty messed up. You think about it, you need somebody dedicated in the law to like be on the lookout to make sure stuff isn't, the rug isn't getting pulled from under us like it always does.

28:48SpeakerEspecially this year, man, that sucks. To go to a certain place with the laws right and set a good example worldwide, I think, you know, this country has done in Canada as well, to then just go completely backwards, right? Regulate people and find people and here it ain't finding. In Washington it's a lock up bro. I didn't load up my shit for a long time because the limit now is 15 plants and that's not what I'm designed for you know what I'm saying.

29:15SpeakerSo I was pretty fucking not wanting to either hoping that something would come up but you know you kind of have to face it bro and take your chances because hey when I moved here it wasn't like that bro. And I don't want it to be like that. Most people don't either.

29:30BubblemanThe times they are changing, there's no doubt about that. I mean, I'm still slightly in shock with them trying to close the... I mean, all these other compassion clubs that have opened, you know, since the BC Compassion Club, I definitely feel for them as well, but I feel much less for them than I do the club, because the club is this... They were just the standard. They never got arrested.

29:51BubblemanThey never got harassed. They never got busted. They always paid their taxes. They always, whatever they had to do, they did. And it just seems so strange that Health Canada of all, that's like one of the best little things in the community that it's in. I mean the club really sort of paid the way and not many clubs do this at all with their profit but the Compassion Club does as it's a true non-for-profit.

30:15BubblemanIt takes the profits and it puts it into this incredible healing center next door where you have people All sorts of different people. I think they offer like over 20 or 30 different holistic healings. And these are expensive healings, $60, $80 an hour. And they've got these people typed on retainers. They work there all the time. And they offer this to their members Thank you for watching.

30:59BubblemanAnd you've got to go. I think it's utter and complete and total fucking bullshit, and I really wish Hillary was here to tell us a little bit about how she feels about it.

31:09Etienne FontanShe said she was going to go take the weekend to get her head together, so I can understand and respect that. But, hey, Canada, we did this. Our wonderful dispensary in Berkeley has been beloved by our community for decades, and all of a sudden the federal government came in and decided that Thank you for watching.

31:47Etienne FontanIt sucked, but, you know, I never forgot that it's still about the patients and that today a patient needs help. And if I don't help them, they're not going to get the help that they need. So I better fucking go out there and raise my goddamn freedom again. Otherwise, you know, where's Preston going to get his medicine? You know, where's Nick going to get his medicine? Where's G420 going to get his medicine?

32:06Archive SeedsBong rip!

32:09SpeakerYep. Yeah, but you know what? If there's an opportunity for licensing and they have that structured out, I urge, you know, Guys, don't slack on getting licenses, because the licenses here in Washington, in a period of time that you could apply, they close that application time period, you know, so you can't get a new license, and now it's like people selling licenses, private sales. Concentrate licenses, um, Average between $20,000 to $25,000 just to start making concentrates.

32:39SpeakerYou know what I mean? When that was not the application fee in the beginning here in Washington. So at least take the steps to get yourself.

32:48BubblemanWell, Cuban, licensed producers in Canada paid, I don't even know what they paid for those licenses, but I would guess to say millions of dollars. I would say minimum half a million dollars back room payments. Like, okay, here, Bob, come on. I need one of those licenses.

33:07SpeakerRight now, the producer's licenses, like the biggest one in the state for growing is a half a mil from a private sale. That shit's expensive, bro. That's a lot of money to get in the industry. Well, well. Yeah, a half a mil in Canada, you know how many people could pay that no problem compared to it's going to cost you a half a mil for a vault to prove you can hold the cannabis.

33:33SpeakerYeah. That's true, but that means that instead of being like, I myself don't have a half a mil, so to make moves myself, you know, I would need a business partner. That's pretty much what it forces you to do, to team up with an investor. But it's still a big money number for most people, you know. No, I mean, depending on where you are, that's putting up your house if you want to grow, if you want to be free from that big money investor, because if every extract artist ends up having to pair up with a big money investor, they end up To a sense, an employee of something, it's scary because everyone's like, I need 25 grand.

34:13SpeakerAnd now you're open to people who are like, hey, I got 25 grand. Let's see which one of these suckers I can own. It's a trap. It's a trap where you end up, well, look, I have a facility and at least I can persist. But now I'm in a different model I wasn't paying attention to and now I owe this guy and We didn't talk about milestones when I took the money and now he wants to see this this and this.

34:36SpeakerIt's a little bit more like the real world where you'd never get a business loan without doing a lot of weird shit you didn't want to do from a bank. I don't know, I kind of would rather take the loan from the bank than some guy.

35:08BubblemanTo be recognized and put into the mainstream, well guess what? The mainstream fucking blows. This is how the mainstream operates. We over-regulate, we fucking do this, we do that. This is what you guys have been fighting for.

35:22SpeakerIt's crazy to think people fought for eggs the same way in milk and you can't sell your own milk. I've got to interrupt you guys. Mark, there's a goof in the chat just going right off named Brian Harbinger.

35:37BubblemanOh, he's long gone. Yeah, okay, I just... Donzo. Anytime there's something like that, Darren, you can just type it into the little message box and I'll see it and boom, boom, bam. Anyone, for that matter, that has someone in chat and they need to go, just type it in the little message box and I'll give it a boot.

35:58SpeakerI've seen that, but I didn't see him left yet. I was just... I was getting worked up a bit, I think. That fucking guy. I just can't stand rude people, man. Jesus Christ.

36:10BubblemanSo what were we talking about there?

36:15Etienne FontanWe were talking about activism, Canada, freedom, regulations, you know.

36:18BubblemanOh, the costs, yeah, the costs and it going into it.

36:22Etienne FontanThat's cool and all. Hey, Nick, Nick has that quartz D-mail signal head. How is that named, that little sick D-mail head?

36:37NickYeah, it is pretty wild. I got it on Friday, and I've been going pretty hard with it ever since. It's the sick clone, so if you know what the silicon carbide head looks like, it's the same heating surface as the silicon carbide head, but it's made out of quartz. And the flavor profile you get off of these is just crazy. ATN, we've actually, we have to set up a date once you get your Sapphire.

37:06NickI want to set up a side-by-side Sapphire Halo taste test. We'll go with the same terps, the same temps, and compare. But from this nail compared to the Silicon Carbide, which all of my quartz, my friends that use quartz say is by far the best flavor they've had, this trumps the Silicon Carbide.

37:28Etienne FontanAnd that, of course, goes with the flag, though.

37:31Archive SeedsMy stuff will be part of next weekend.

37:35Etienne FontanYeah, we can schedule something. I have to see how it goes. There's supposedly going to be a little water in between. Is there a buffer in between your ports and them?

37:48NickNo, there wasn't a buffer. It's the exact same setup. I got the exact same setup as the silicon carbide. It's just the head with the centerpiece screw that actually attaches and... And Titans, the nail onto the Infiniti.

38:08BubblemanBeautiful, beautiful nail. I can't wait.

38:10Etienne FontanHey, D420K, there's many people want to hear it.

38:18Archive SeedsYell it.

38:21BubblemanWe got to keep... I just jacked right up.

38:32SpeakerYo, what's up, Rev? Good to see you on there.

38:36BubblemanWelcome, Jeff.

38:38SpeakerYo, you heard about what's going down in Cali, man? It's almost the same shit that's going down in Washington. Yeah, it pretty much looks like the same thing that's from my first read. I read ATN, posted it on the Hash Church yesterday, or on Friday, rather, and I was reading it on my way back from Portland on the bus. It's, you know, a lot of people are...

39:00SpeakerAre upset about it. And I understand why. You know, it's going to destroy the Ma and Pa. And it's going to give corporations the, you know, the keys to the cannabis garden. And so, you know, I totally understand that. But at the same time, I feel that Where we're moving in this world is to regulation on every level. And so, you know, we're not going to like every step of the regulation, but we've got to try and work within that regulation so that we can continue to do what we love.

39:35BubblemanI would only add, because when he said corporation, it sounded like a bad word. I would only add that Bubble Bags is a corporation and has been For 16 years. So try to remember that not all corporations are out to rape and destroy you and belittle you and take advantage of you. There's actually some good corporations out there. Yeah. Just don't say it, Mark.

39:58SpeakerDon't say it. I mean, I'm an owner of... I'm an owner of a couple corporations myself. So I understand the corporate model. That's just what America wants and what the world wants for you to be running a business is to have a corporation so that it's going to be following a set of rules that the corporation puts forth. And so, you know, I totally understand that. And, you know, Ma and Pa can be a corporation.

40:25SpeakerThere's nothing wrong with that. But generally, Ma and Pa in the cannabis industry are not going to be moving over to having themselves a Ma and Pa corporation. They're going to get squashed by the larger corporations. Go ahead, Todd. You know, I just feel as if, you know, the truth of the crux of this issue is that cannabis is going to become practically worthless compared to what it was on the prohibited market.

40:54SpeakerAnd they're not going to recoup taxes in these, you know, prohibition error profiteering scenarios that they're trying to lay out in future budgets. And that's reality. And, you know, grandma and grandpa, you know, in the growing industry may lose their ability to actually pay their mortgage growing cannabis in their backyard like they did through the 80s and 90s when their friends and neighbors were getting picked off and raided.

41:15SpeakerBut they'll be able to freely grow cannabis in their backyard and they won't have to worry about kids jumping their fence and ripping off their crops because their crops will be fucking worthless and the kids next door will be growing their own shit and it's probably just as good or better. And I think they'll get to a point where realiztically corporations will have to be Realiztically decent corporate citizens to compete with candidates because the profit is going to be low, efficiency and productivity is going to have to be high, and the conversation is going to have to be about quality or you're going to be out of the conversation.

41:44SpeakerAnd I think this is a good thing. And I'm not... You know, I don't want to sound like, what's his name, it was like corporations or people, man. But, you know, the truth of the matter is that one of the things that hit me in 99, I got to speak at of all places, Woodstock in 99, before I went to prison, I was on my activist trip, and Kenneth Cole, the fashion designer of all people, came and joined us for what we called Spitfire.

42:09SpeakerAnd he got on stage. The guy was, I mean, stupid wealthy by the time he was in his 30s. And he spoke about conscious capitalism and how we shouldn't, as a community, be afraid to make money. We should be afraid to not use it in a humanitarian and conscientious way. Thank you for joining us.

42:49SpeakerWe should embrace wealth and then use it to embody or to embolden the people around us, to help society, to make this world a better place. We shouldn't shun away from it, but we shouldn't dream about fucking Bentleys and Rolexes and shiny crap. We shouldn't dream about how we could be able to feed people that are hungry or help people that are sick. That should be our fantasy.

43:11SpeakerOur fantasy should be to do good.

43:13BubblemanBasically, you just described Akon and Floyd Mayweather. Floyd Mayweather buys the cars and the Rolexes and the houses, and Akon is like electricity to millions of people in Africa right now.

43:29SpeakerLike literally that's his project. Yeah, conscious capitalism is nothing we should be afraid of. What I'm sick of is all these billionaires wanting to be our president, and the reality is all they want is manipulation, control and manipulation, so guys like Bush and Cheney can go in there and funnel trillions of fucking dollars to their own Homey companies. And that's what we should be worried about. That's the type of capitalism that we really should fight against.

43:53SpeakerBut realiztically, we shouldn't be afraid to become these little corporations or medium-sized corporations that do the things that, like Hillary did when she moved up to Vancouver. I might be one that argues that I would rather pay less for my cannabis and decide if I wanted to go get a massage rather than have the club charge me more, make a big profit, and go give me a bunch of auxiliary social services that I'm questionably not asking for.

44:17SpeakerYou know, I want to see the price of cannabis go down, down, down so that it's in the hands of everybody and that alcohol and tobacco is no longer the only alternative to, I hate to say it, the people that are the poorest. Because they're the only ones that can go out and, they can't go out and buy kind, but I was debating the DEA agent 20 years ago when he was talking about cannabis that, you know, was grown in Humboldt County falling into the hands of children.

44:40SpeakerAnd at the time, that shit was $4,800 a pound. And I made the point that, sir, at $400 an ounce, it's barely falling into the hands of many adults. No shit, dude. Who the fuck's giving kids shit that costs $400 an ounce? Here, kid, here's some $400 an ounce weed. Bullshit. $4,000 a pound. Bullshit.

45:00BubblemanHey, and keep in mind, Todd, that $400 ounce of weed was like closer to $700 for the Canadians going down there and being like, what?

45:10SpeakerWhat's the exchange? How much? That was the outdoor for the four-handle? That price, 4,800 a pound list existed from the late 80s well into the 21st century in the Emerald Triangle. That was the price. That was the price through the 90s. That was the price late 80s. I mean, I was in prison from 2000 to 2004, so excuse me, I was out of the trip. But, you know, when I got out, it was still pretty high.

45:39BubblemanI guess people who are flipping pounds in the prison so much, more just like pinners. Ounces. I was getting ounces.

45:46TonyOunces? Nice.

45:47BubblemanNice.

45:48SpeakerIt's a true story, actually.

45:50Etienne FontanWhat grade of weed, Todd, just out of curiosity?

45:53SpeakerThat would be Mexi, bro. That would be the best weed. I bought one gram of Pine Bud, and the whole fucking time I was down, I had to give him $150 for a gram of the shit. And I think it was a setup, because I got piss-tested afterwards. But you know what? I spent a month in the hole and it was fucking so worth it. I love you, Todd.

46:16SpeakerYou gotta see. In this fucking High Times magazine, there's you. Oh, that sucks. I so should have shaved that day. I regretted that every day. I saw that and I fucking hated it. You know, it was weird. I got this whole collection of High Times and all these folders. And Cannabis Culture, all these ones haven't even been opened. I've got the whole collection my buddy gave me a couple days ago.

46:43SpeakerAnd these ones are doubles that he can read. The other ones he didn't even open. And I was flipping through and I seen Todd McCormick interview. I was like, what? Let's check this out. Hold up the cover. The cover is the coolest thing because they interviewed Jack and then my name's right next to it on his shoulder, which was kind of sweet. Right there. Jack's back. Jack and I, I was doing time in the same prison where he actually went to prison and wrote The Emperor in 14 days initially.

47:11SpeakerHe got sentenced to Terminal Island Prison because he wouldn't do a year probation for signing up voters after dark on federal property. That's how we got the emperor, everybody. Jack Carrow was being an activist on Wilshire Boulevard at the Federal Building, and Reagan saw him. And Reagan basically passed this World War II anti-vandalism law that basically said that everyone had to be off the property after sunset.

47:36SpeakerSo they went back and arrested the protesters and said, hey, we got a hook now. We're going to kick you off the property. And they offered Jack and everyone else a year probation. And Jack said, my whole life's a violation of probation. So he fucking accepted jail. And that was two weeks of TI. And he basically was such a short inmate that they wouldn't give him anything but these little three-inch pencils and white paper.

47:59SpeakerAnd that's what he wrote an 84-page draft of The Emperor on. Wow. He made a good choice, though, man, if he knew he was going to violate probation. You know what I mean? Oh, dude, it was a principal thing, you know, and they had been there, believe it or not, for over a year, protesting and, like, doing, like, an Occupy type of campo, and the story was is that we had the, they had the Marijuana flag hanging under the American flag, which, believe it or not, is legal.

48:26SpeakerAnd Reagan pulled in to get like a haircut or some rather trivial shit at the federal building and inquired as to why we, what were the Canadians protesting outside because he mistaken the marijuana flag for a Canadian maple fucking leaf and a, They had to inform them, oh, actually, those are the marijuana people, and we can't get rid of them, and they've been out there for all this time bothering us.

48:49SpeakerThey're trying to sign up people to vote. They believe in democracy. It's ridiculous. And, of course, that was what Reagan did. It was right when he got back into office in 84, he went back, and one of his first acts, Jack said, was to basically implement this anti-vandalism law and come back and arrest the guys, the kids, really, and young adults at the federal building. A little weed history.

49:13SpeakerYo, we got Remo in the chat. Just want to say what's up to him.

49:18BubblemanWho's that?

49:19SpeakerUrban Remo.

49:21BubblemanRemo. Hey, Remo. How you doing, brother? Remo. He's working. And is it Remo or is it Sandra? Either way, hello to both of you.

49:34SpeakerYes, hello. And those nutrients work fucking awesome. I will be down for a truckload soon. The amount of joints that we smoked, that I smoked with them over there was fucking phenomenal. I still, today, cannot top that, I don't think. No way could I. Not during a Hash Church episode. We hotboxed his fucking room there, the whole fucking upstairs.

49:57BubblemanThat's pretty much every moment of every day that you would spend with Remo. It's exactly like that all the time.

50:04SpeakerOh, it was awesome. Fuck, I was just fucking cruise control for the last two hours of church. That was it.

50:10BubblemanFuck. It's awesome. Very good, very good. Well, I'm going to have a bong rip, I guess. A little smoky, smoky. Bong rip. Bong rip.

50:21SpeakerPop the roof.

50:24Etienne FontanRoss is very...

50:26SpeakerI've got a question for Preston from a patient friend of mine with CRPS. She wanted to know what strains do you find knock it down the longest, because there's always a terp chase with that to figure out if any strains carry any unique terps that could be used in other ways. She gets a lot of swelling that she uses the transdermal for on her wrist, but everything seems to have a two-day limit, then it seems to stop working.

50:55SpeakerUh, does she, uh, does she flower, or is she down too, because... Yeah, she moved the concentrates very fast, um, for what she needs. Uh, yeah, because that's what I would assume, because the pain's pretty intense, yeah. Um, I found that high CBD ones, especially Hargoquin, is a good one. Um, also, um, Wu5, that's another really good high CBD one. Um...

51:21SpeakerDoes she take full-spectrum oil at all or CBD oil? For instance, I couldn't say, oh, let me go get some Harlequin this evening, so I would ask you, do you know what the ratios inside of that Harlequin are? Like a one-to-one ratio, yeah, something like that. I know what you mean, though.

51:44SpeakerUm, I would say something that's more leaning to the THC side, but still has some CBD in it, because I don't want that sedate factor, you know? Um, but, yeah, now that I think about it, she's in a lot of pain, probably something really high in THC, because CBD isn't really going to give that instant, you know, relief. I mean, it'll give relief, but you know what I mean?

52:14SpeakerI mean, I guess I have now the psychological end of that disorder. Do you need some strains to manage your mind and some things to keep your spirits up and some things for your body? Do you have to go in two different directions to actually feel better versus like the pain's gone but my depression from living in pain is still keeping me in the couch versus going outside?

52:37SpeakerSo is that a critical part of the recovery using emotional balance? Yeah, yeah, I would recommend like I do Tevas in the morning just if I'm down from like being in pain or had a bad night or something. That would get me up and going, you know, just get me happier, get me laughing type of thing. And then in the middle of the day, I'll do a hybrid, something 50-50 just to balance me out.

53:05SpeakerAnd then usually, you know, then after afternoon, I do heavy indicas. They're just the pain and stuff. And then if I'm feeling down, I'll do a stativa dominant at the end of the day, but not too high. Nothing like too crazy, you know what I mean?

53:30NickNow, Preston, you've also gone into changing your diet quite drastically as well. Is that correct?

53:36SpeakerOh, yeah. Thank you, Nick, for reminding me about that. That would actually help a lot, too. I switched to organic, and I cut out sugar out of my diet, like all sugar, and it All organic meats now. I eat lots of protein. Yeah, lots of that stuff. And since I stopped the sugary food and all the fatty foods and fast food and crap food, munchy food basically, My pain started lowering, and I noticed I was more at ease.

54:19SpeakerI wasn't as grouchy, too. And if you're not as grouchy, that definitely can play a role in helping your pain. Because if you're happy already, you're not going to be too down that you're in pain. I just medicate, and I'll find something to do, and I'll totally distract myself. So, yeah.

54:41BubblemanSo Preston, is it important for you to have access to organic cannabis as well? Do you notice a great difference between the two?

54:48SpeakerI do, because I did get crappy concentrate from a dispensary. It wasn't organic. It actually got shut down. I think it was one of the 10. I don't know if it got shut down, but you know the 10 car springs are using pesticides? Okay. Yeah, so, um, but I switched over to Can Recur, which is all organic and stuff, and, um, it makes a huge difference, like, the, I don't know what it is, but, um, it's more potent, uh, it's cleaner, um, the dabs are smoother, um, type of thing.

55:36BubblemanIt brings me to a thought, like I wonder if all of these different products in the cannabis world, if a guy like Khalid got a hold of all those products, or even a guy like Horatio for that matter, and started just filtering them through these extremely small little like .5, is it .5 micron Horatio?

55:56SpeakerIf you're going after mold, it's .2.

55:59BubblemanOkay, what about heavy metals and other weird things that I don't even know are present in these?

56:04SpeakerWhat I believe for heavy metals, I use .7. Like, what I believe, I'm like, I think that's a heavy metal because look at that fucking color. Wait a second. You can't just remove it by filtration. If it's in solution... Thank you so much for joining us.

56:39SpeakerLike, gun gray, and I know the nutrients have a history of heavy metals, and now, heavy metals are an imaginary thing to a lot of us when you think of them in solubilized form. But I'm like, okay, gray I've never seen, it's not a natural color, and the bud didn't hold anything that looked metallic. Did the lipids bind up something heavy metal? Is that possible? It's not really the filtration, but the lipids bonding, and then the lipids are filtered.

57:06SpeakerYeah, that's totally possible, but again, if it's completely soluble, you can't remove it. If it's coming out in the lipid fraction, yeah, you can certainly concentrate heavy metals because of carboxylic acid.

57:46SpeakerWhat kind of heavy metal are you talking about? I wish I knew. It's the lipid fractions that are teaching me when I'm like, Gray, that has not happened in 150 filters. I didn't think it was possible. Now, is this another thing that everyone who's not second solvent... I just like the idea of the same way Buddy took the CO2 and the butane and all these other things, I love the idea of someone going through all these different nutrient companies

58:34BubblemanNot to call anyone out or anything, but really just to sort of make sure people like Preston aren't consuming things that are going to cause problems while they're offering help.

58:48SpeakerYeah, that's a big concern of mine actually, but go ahead and talk.

58:58BubblemanThat's a legitimate concern, Preston.

59:02Etienne FontanIt's a legitimate concern. That's why we started to do science in the first place, because we wanted to know what was in our cannabis. And hopefully now with these regulations, we will be able to, since it will also now legalize laboratories as well as manufacturing, is that we can now bring these other laboratories that are these real agricultural laboratories can now fucking come in and play. Okay, they can now start getting some of these things that are applicable, such as originally, you know, Steve Hill, I was originally working with Halent before they merged with Steve Hill because Halent was the researchers out of UC Davis that were doing all the research for the agricultural companies.

59:46Etienne FontanSo they were doing the full spectrums on pesticides, herbicides, etc. So we had the top 22 so that we could start screening immediately. So hopefully this regulation, and I'm hoping in the positive sense, is that it will open it up so that we will be able to, yes, yeah, let's challenge everybody and see what's in your shit. Let's make sure that what the labeling is what it says it is.

1:00:10Etienne FontanIf you're going to do it on our cannabis, we should be able to do it on your nutrients and the other things so that they are going to allow for organic certification, so we've got to have access to proper organic nutrients as well as they're going to have to be able to come into your garden and certify Remember, two-year certification for organic certification, or you can use the term organic.

1:00:29Etienne FontanIf not, it's a $10,000 fine for use of the word. So, don't mess around, but at the same time, agreed, we need to know what's in the cannabis, because I don't want to give Preston anything bad.

1:00:42BubblemanWe need to know what's in the cannabis before we even know what's in the cannabis. You know what I'm saying? Like, all these nutrients are for sale. What's in them?

1:00:54NickATN, how are they going to get past the USDA owning or trademarking the term organic and not allowing anything that's not federally accepted to be classified as organic? Are they going to go back to the clean green certification like they have been in California? I think California is going to come out with an organic certification.

1:01:19Etienne FontanCalifornia should stand up and say, hey, this is organic certification. They also have their own organic certification. So they can say, yeah, you know, we're doing it at the state level because that's where the feds, you know, they let the states handle it. So they have made sure. Sure, if you look at the law, we encompass and now fall under all those, all applicable organizations. So, from the agriculture to pesticides, we fall under all those regulations.

1:01:50Etienne FontanSo, we need to know and they need to provide, you know, companies what we're dealing with properly as well as I would anticipate people like Remo and other companies like Advance coming out, you know, and pushing those cannabis specific lines of nutrients. If they aren't already, so, you know, it's going to have ripples across the entire board.

1:02:12SpeakerCan I say something? Robert Clark, when he was with me last time, was one of the things he was really concerned about in concentrates is, or in extracts, I should say, is that there were growth hormones in specific nutrients that he felt were harmful because they pass through and they get all the way into our blood system, even if we smoke them. And he gave me a list of the nutrients that actually contain them.

1:02:37SpeakerAnd we should make them available. I'll go look through my email for next week. I'll have that information because that was something I was putting in my new book, Grow Medicine, actually.

1:02:47BubblemanLet's post that in the Hash Church group as well so people can see. Yeah, it would be good if each Hash Church, I'll try to start a thread in each episode, you know, Hash Church 51, and then what we discussed can kind of go under that, and that way we don't dilute the group with a hundred different posts about the same thing. Welcome, Tony, you made it in.

1:03:12TonyYo, what's going on, guys?

1:03:16BubblemanOh, just having some intense conversation about California and Canada, and then getting into... We were talking to Preston, a patient who was discussing the importance of not only organic food, but organic cannabis as well, and then we got to talking a little bit about how it would be great if we tested all these nutrients as often as we test the cannabis, like not as often, but just test them, have those available.

1:03:43BubblemanIt would be great as a grower to be able to go into knowing what your results are going to be, By having already tested the nutrients, rather than waiting, putting a bunch of different products on there and then testing it afterwards, it seems a little silly to me.

1:03:58TonyYeah, I mean, with those standards, that's how they do it in a lot of other industries. You should continue the testing through the whole product line, you know?

1:04:12BubblemanAnd even at the start, right, before you give something to a product, it would be great to just have that full breakdown sheet of exactly what's going on in there. And, you know, what do you got there? Some goop?

1:04:24TonyDude, I don't even know. I went to next level. You know when it gets like 3, 4 in the morning? You're like, oh, I'm going to work on a new texture. I had all these, like, beautiful little glass jars ready to go. Nice. With a strange name and everything. I was thinking this was going to become a butter and then I've been working on a taffy. It looks like a taffy, man.

1:04:49TonyWatch this shit, dude. I actually, I think there's too many, too many turps. So.

1:04:55SpeakerYeah, it's got that turp butter. Watch this.

1:05:01TonyWatch.

1:05:07TonyLook at that. It's still stuck together.

1:05:10SpeakerIs that some of your string theory? That's what you should call it.

1:05:13TonyI mean, I can't package it. It's super taffy. People are asking for the taffy taffy. Look at it. I don't know. I'm going to try to put it on parchment right now.

1:05:29BubblemanThe Laffy Taffy.

1:05:32TonyIt's, uh, it's under... It's a solventless taffy.

1:05:42BubblemanNon-solventless.

1:05:43SpeakerSo I wanted to jump back over to Mark Skildone for a second here. Just like Horatio, I do a lot of post-process filtration, secondary solvent filtration, and so I see all of these different constituents coming out from the different producers that I'm getting material from. And, you know, I've got a lot of them on filters, you know, borosilicate filters that I use. Thanks to Chip from Horatio.

1:06:12SpeakerBut I would love to have these things tested. You know, last week you offered to send some stuff over, send whatever over, and I've got a bunch of different things that have come out different ways On the filter that are the lipid fractions with these different things that Horatio is talking about in there. So we'll have reds and we'll have all kinds of different colors that are represented.

1:06:41SpeakerIs that something you'd be interested in testing, Mark? Absolutely, dude. Hit me up offline for sure. Absolutely. Yes.

1:06:53BubblemanSo here's something that goes out to Jeff and Horatio, Tony, and anyone else that's processing these things and coming up with these things that you discover. And I just wonder, and it's a question for the whole room and even all the chat people, do we not owe it to the patients and to ourselves and to our community To expose those things rather than try to protect our business interests and be quiet about them when we see these fucked up things show up on the plate and it's like oh well that's my buddy's company and I don't want to say anything and oh that's my buddy's extractor or that's my buddy's nutrients, that's my buddy's whatever it is.

1:07:36BubblemanDon't we owe it to ourselves to sort of discuss these things, get that list from Rob Clark and talk about it on Hash Church, find out what the hell you're seeing in those colors from Mark Scaldone, and call the companies out so that they see we're not calling you out to put you out of business, we're calling you out to make you a better business.

1:07:56SpeakerMan, we called our own company out this week. We had rosin and it tested positive for E. coli. And rather than just bearing the result and saying, oh, we're not going to put this stuff out on the market, which we didn't, none of it made it to the patients, right? There was a test that was done beforehand. But, you know, instead of doing that, we researched it, looked into it, and called ourselves out and said the industry really needs to look at what they're doing and make sure that the products that they're putting out there for the patients are actually safe.

1:08:31SpeakerAnd we're not doing any water extraction processing right now because we don't have what we think of as a safe method to ensure that the bacteria is not going to grow in the presence of the water. And, you know, I mean, it's... Things that we thought were safe before, we've proven that they're not. And so we have to take that as a responsibility to expose that to the world so that everybody will follow the proper methods in the future.

1:09:02SpeakerAnd that's what we think.

1:09:04Etienne FontanI'm seeing what's happening with that. There's going through recalls. I saw a recall in the state of Maine. I saw a recall of Mahatma products in Colorado. So... It also seems to be going through the regular product chain as well as how things are dealt with. And not only that, it appears in the media. That's how I read about it is that, you know, I think a distributor in Maine had a product that had something on it and they had to actually pull it from and then contact the members.

1:09:33Etienne FontanNow, how it actually got tested after it got out to members, I don't know. But at the same time, you figure it should be or it would be tested before it actually goes out to the patient.

1:09:49Etienne FontanRight.

1:09:50BubblemanWell, it's interesting. I definitely think that it's a good thing. It's definitely one of the things that seems to be the natural mission statement of Hash Church, that we just, whatever it is we're talking about, we're talking about it to expose the bad and discover the good. And we're definitely not out to put anyone out of business or to...

1:10:11Etienne FontanSome nature is happening around California right now. The outdoor capital for a lot of people, which is Calaveras County, is burning. And then Lake County, which is also another large outdoor growing community here in California. What was it, 9,000 acres in 24 hours, which is the fastest growing? Pardon me, 40,000 acres. For Lake County within 24 hours. It started yesterday at 3.30 in the afternoon. So a lot of these areas are huge outdoor grow areas.

1:10:49Etienne FontanI wonder what sort of effect this is going to have on the market because I know a lot of people have lost their crops or potentially have.

1:11:00BubblemanI got a message from Aaron from DNA this morning actually that I was supposed to read. He's unfortunately unable to come to church. He wanted to say hi to everyone, and he wanted to send positive vibes for all the people who are going through rough times because of the huge fire in NorCal. Loads of my friends lost everything, and our hearts and prayers go out to everyone affected by this huge fucking fire.

1:11:20SpeakerSo, thank you for reminding me of that, ATN.

1:11:26Etienne FontanI hate to be bare-bed news, but that's a reality that we're all facing right now. My beloved family is actually here because they were evacuated And they had at least 24 hour notice. And Lake County, 40,000 acres and not even, didn't even probably have, like my girlfriend said, didn't even have a half hour to gather their shit and get out. They had no time. So I can't imagine what, because there was strong winds last night, 40 mile an hour plus winds.

1:11:54Etienne FontanAnd it must have fed because Lake County is also very flat and very grassland compared to Such as Calaveras County, which tends to be more wooded, but I know a lot of people around the world who grow in that area and have lost, so our condolences.

1:12:14BubblemanYeah, crazy scene. We get the same thing up in British Columbia every year. We get no water in the interior for like the craziest amount of time where all our fruit, all our peaches and plums and nectarines and such grow, and then... And then BAM! The fires start from like lightning and cigarette butts and broken glass and every other stupid fucking thing you could imagine. And it is like every year the people that live in those areas, they go on like what's, you know, first it's like the pre-evacuation.

1:12:43BubblemanIt's like, okay, you're on standby, you may have to leave. And then it gets to the forced evacuation when the fire's like across the street and they're literally got like army dudes going door to door. This is a place where people grow a lot of herb illegally, indoors, you know, 50, 100, 200 lighters plus. And imagine you got the army rolling up to you, you're like, fuck, the fire's over there, my 200 lighters over here, army at my front door.

1:13:14TonyThat's the Murphy's Law of growing, you know. I've got it all dialed in. Nothing's going wrong. The harvest is perfect. It's the best.

1:13:26SpeakerI rolled into a grove that I was checking up on a 50-lighter I had 15 years ago to see a forest fire around it and fired people, police, forestry. All around this big barn was the fire. My buddies were locked inside the barn, afraid to I had to help fight fire right there. The neighbors were there, everybody. And we fought the fire and then we had to fight the fire for two or three days, just put up little spot fires around the place ourselves.

1:14:01SpeakerBut we didn't get caught. The whole place was still going rock and everything like that. It was the biggest fluke I've ever seen. But rolling into the driveway and seeing everything there and totally committed to keeping going, it was like I couldn't turn around and walk off.

1:14:16BubblemanIt was pretty tense. That's a story that I've heard from many a friend, just fighting the fire while the grow is going in the barn. Good on you cannabis growers, you tenacious bastards.

1:14:36TonyThe fire is a serious thing. This year in California it was already really dry on flowers.

1:14:45TonyIt's real serious, man. I was in a building and there was a fire right up to us and we were up north and we had to evacuate. I've had to evacuate twice in the short amount of time that I've been up there. So yeah, everyone that's out there that's listening, you know, it's a serious deal.

1:15:11Etienne FontanDon't be brave, people. Don't be brave. Fire will kill you. Get out of there. Pack your shit up. Don't fuck around with it.

1:15:20TonyThe other thing, it's a big wake-up call for really how, if you look at how dry California is with their water shortage, you don't really realize it until you live here. And it's like they show you a map of like drought, extreme drought area, and then it's like California, extreme drought, Super dark red on the map, you know, like everywhere. And there's a lot of people that live here.

1:15:47TonyIt's like the biggest, you know, biggest state. There's like 45 million people in one state.

1:15:53BubblemanCome on, there's over 40 million people in Cali now?

1:15:56TonyI think so.

1:15:57BubblemanHoly shit, I always thought it was like 30 or 35 million, but I'm just up here in Canada and you guys think we have one road, so.

1:16:05SpeakerFuck, we're 3,000 here. That's all.

1:16:10TonyI thought I remembered the latest was 40-something million.

1:16:17BubblemanWhat is it?

1:16:19SpeakerWell, yeah. Don't you let people visit your border? 38.8 million. Can I blow your mind? More than 40 million people annually visit L.A. alone. Woo! Yeah. Only L.A. Only L.A. L.A. gets 40 million visitors annually. Just L.A. Yeah, not the rest of California. I don't know how the rest of it does. Las Vegas.

1:16:43NickWhy do so many people go to LA?

1:16:46SpeakerI read it once. I lived in LA. It was a tourist number that was thrown out because I was doing demographics for marketing.

1:16:51Etienne FontanYou've got Universal. You've got Legoland. You've got all those things. You've got the San Diego Zoo. All that shit.

1:16:59SpeakerSome place called Disney. Whatever that's all about. So...

1:17:09Etienne FontanTell us. 2014, 38.7 million. I wouldn't be surprised if we're at 40.

1:17:16TonyYeah, I think it's like 38 million that actually live here and then another like 6 million that are 38 that are registered and another 6 million that are not, you know. They're just like living here that are also living in other states. Yeah, that's just what's documented.

1:17:34SpeakerTo be honest, there must be hella hippies up there growing weed that aren't on the range.

1:17:39TonyThat's what I'm saying.

1:17:40SpeakerThere's another six million out there. I think Tony's right. I think census and reality are definitely two different things.

1:17:51TonyYeah, for sure.

1:17:54BubblemanThat is for sure. I think it's a Terrence Mechanic quote when he said, Oh, I wish I could remember this quote because it's a good one.

1:18:08BubblemanOh well, I'm not going to remember it. I need a dab.

1:18:11TonySo, I was trying to go for this new texture and I've got this whole new product bubble man that when you get your turps and you start messing around with them. Yeah. They do just crazy things when you start using them and with your SHO and stuff.

1:18:35BubblemanI'll play around.

1:18:38TonyI got a really good consistency though because I just thought it was going to be a little more dry so it can go into glass, but I think it's going to go in parchment. It's a good taffy, super like exactly the texture of peel. And Phil of Taffy. Really easy to play with.

1:19:00BubblemanExciting. It's always fun to play with cannabis. Get in there, people. Get your hands dirty. Make some hash art. Show us your hash art.

1:19:11TonyI have an idea for that. We should do a contest on Hash Church for hash art, which I will not enter, obviously. But be part of the judging and have everyone in every category try to create their best three dimensional hash art. I love it. And then maybe we can have a prize, like a real prize.

1:19:39BubblemanThis is what we'll do, Tony. The people who are the best at it will be hired for the Hashmation film that we make completely out of hash and oil, Clayton style. I've been waiting to do this for over 10 years.

1:19:54Etienne FontanOkay.

1:19:55BubblemanSince I saw like, I think it was snakes or something in Rob's book. Like some years and years ago, he had a picture of like, it was actually a picture that I got inspired to do, which was a bunch of different hash snakes I put in my hand and took a photo of. It was totally inspired by a photo that Rob had taken years prior.

1:20:15SpeakerMan, I think you were talking about that on overgrow.com, so that's like 15 years ago now almost, right?

1:20:22BubblemanMore even, it could be 16 plus years ago.

1:20:26TonyYeah. Yeah. Good stuff. What if we did a hash art one? We could all like collectively work on one. We can make it easy like snowman bodies, you know, so everyone can participate. And then what happens is everyone's their own little hash snowman character and they have their little cameras and they have to use ghosting. There's like a little imaging software that allows you to take a picture and it shows you the ghost.

1:20:54TonyAnd you can keep taking it with your space bar. I mean, it's really easy. Or you could do it with your camera. But have everyone create these little hash art animations that we could put together.

1:21:07BubblemanIt would be pretty fun, dude. Like I said, I got to the point where I was even looking at, okay, where do people learn claymation? And like, I guess there's like, it's a type of thing at a film school. Maybe I start go like headhunting like young puffers who are taking claymation courses.

1:21:24TonyNobody does it. Everybody's digital now.

1:21:27BubblemanListen, I'll tell you this much. No one in here could deny that if it was done properly with real claymation artists and amazing hash of different colors and varieties and oils, that it would become a cult classic if you did a proper story. And for me, you'd have to have like, The prohibitionists are... The mentality, the bad guy is like this giant magnifying glass. And he's just like vaporizing these little hash dudes everywhere.

1:21:56SpeakerSo that... Unfortunately, I know people, but I don't know if they want to get their fingers messy with hash. So in the production, basically, there's like this lovely town of these little hash children, hash parents, and then like the government, which is this magnifier that shows up above the mountains and has it... As it heads toward, lines up with the sun, everyone starts scattering and running, and doors are closing.

1:22:21SpeakerYou know, like, every day between 12 and 3, it's siesta, dude, or everyone's hash melts, and then, like, some monster comes through and smokes it all. It would be pretty good. The wooks. The wooks. The wooks.

1:22:35BubblemanFirst you start hearing fish music. First you hear fish music, and they're all getting, like, burned and melted, and then the wooks show up over the hill, and it's just fucking...

1:22:47BubblemanWe're maybe going a little too far on this, but you know what? That's the fun of cannabis.

1:22:53Etienne FontanYou guys are so fucking high.

1:22:56BubblemanNo, it's that I've been thinking about this for 15 years, dude. No, that's awesome. Make it a reality.

1:23:03Etienne FontanHey, I want to give a shout out to Soil Grown Sal. He makes these, or has a glass floor, and makes these cool resin stamps. And I got one as a birthday present for myself. It's got a couple of Soil Growns in there.

1:23:22BubblemanI tried to find him today. I couldn't find him on Facebook. It was like he disappeared.

1:23:30Etienne FontanThanks, Sal. Love it.

1:23:32BubblemanThat's a nice little stamp right there. Oh, you got to head out, Preston? Well, thank you so much for coming and sharing your story with us. Sure.

1:23:41SpeakerThere's a Bronco game on, gotta get ready for that. I don't even like football.

1:23:48BubblemanAlright, bye. Peace, brother.

1:23:56BubblemanAnyone else need to leave for the football game?

1:24:00TonyI, um, well, speaking of those hash animations again, I would like to make sure that there are certain standards, like you have to work on hair, Did you imagine if, like, you had, like, the taffy hair or the hash-dready hair on the little bald face, and then Horatio could use his limonene to, like, make it look like it's sweating?

1:24:24BubblemanHey, Tony, how about a clear dome afro?

1:24:28TonyYeah, that's what I'm talking about.

1:24:30SpeakerAlright, so we're talking about characters for this hash show. Alright, so there's this hashy Larry guy that comes through and he's got hair, but it's all dog hairs that got stuck in the hash processing. So his hair is dog hairs and like his belly's covered with those mysterious black dots that show up in oil. All the different things from our world could be characters and he would be like, hey man, I just do two bounce, I'm not into that fucking carding shit.

1:24:56SpeakerAnd... That's why he's so filthy.

1:24:59BubblemanHe's all got capitate stock sticking out of him everywhere.

1:25:05SpeakerHe's wearing a t-shirt that says 99% of course.

1:25:13SpeakerThat's pretty funny. These are going to be characters people are going to make.

1:25:19BubblemanNo, I can guarantee you people will be contacting me after this and they'll be like, Bubble Man, I've been in claymation for 17 years and I'm a fan of the show.

1:25:31TonyI've been without a job for 8 years because everything went digital.

1:25:35BubblemanNo shit. People aren't really doing the good, you know what, we need to hire the people that did that fucking chicken story.

1:25:44TonyI think that was all digital too.

1:25:47Etienne FontanNo, they did it with claymation. I do claymation. I have a degree in printmaking and lithography and art. Somehow I don't apply it much now, but it would be fun to apply in some actual hash art. That would be fun.

1:26:01BubblemanWe welcome a new guest, Hannah. Did someone send Hannah the link?

1:26:05TonyYeah, she's the lady that tried to come in. She's the mom of a patient that I wanted you to hear about autism. She tried to come in last week.

1:26:19TonyTechnical difficulties, so now she's, I've been working with her for an hour to get her in.

1:26:25BubblemanWell, we welcome her. She's still, her camera and her microphone are turned off, but if you can hear us, Hannah, welcome. We hope you get through your technical difficulties. It'd be great to hear from you.

1:26:37TonyI think she is now. If she's showing up, there she is. Perfect. So she's on her phone, and we can unmute her.

1:26:50BubblemanI can cry. Sometimes people have to do it themselves. It's weird. Let me see what I got here. Hannah.

1:27:03BubblemanYeah, it looks like she'll have to unmute herself.

1:27:06TonyYeah, I was trying to tell... She was going to share a patient's story. So you asked me if I knew anyone that wanted to share a story, and there's someone that does.

1:27:20BubblemanWell, anytime she can get her mic unmuted, we welcome her to Hash Church.

1:27:25TonyYou're so funny. Am I? Do you know that, like, so many guests have technical problems? Like, remember when Grindspoon was, like, first came on, it was, like, all this technical stuff, and he was like, ah, I'll just, I'll get it next week, and we were all like, oh, man, okay. Let's see here. Recapture it.

1:27:49BubblemanThat's like when you take pictures of the room. Open capture? Yeah, open captures. She has to go up to the microphone at the top of the screen and just push that and then it should unmute. I have something, Kid Kush. He's saying I need team viewer. What I have is control room and generally it usually gives me control. But right now, I can't even see Hannah, Tony.

1:28:14BubblemanIt just shows me Snoopy and like a cute little number that he met back in the day.

1:28:21TonyYeah, I know. It's a cute little number.

1:28:28BubblemanI just like to make people laugh. I have to say when I see Todd smile or like Horatio, because they have like serious like resting faces. When they're resting, they have serious faces. And so whenever they smile, I'm like, yeah, the light got turned on. Woo!

1:28:43TonyWell, it is pretty funny. I didn't even realize what the picture was. It is like a little, Snoopy's got like this little female where he's holding her hand and running with her or dancing or something.

1:28:57BubblemanYep. He's got himself a, I won't say it, a dame.

1:29:05TonyI think he's got, yeah.

1:29:06BubblemanI was going to say a cute little bitch, but I won't say it. Oh, I said it.

1:29:13TonySo I'm going to have to figure out what to do.

1:29:17BubblemanMake it work, figure it out. We'd love to hear from Hannah. And Persistency, remember? We had it with Jessica. She was having a hell of a time. It's always the phone, and it's the settings, and I wish I knew exactly what it was. I should get myself like a troubleshooting guy because... Well, it's always a bummer when we want to hear from someone and we're unable to figure it out.

1:29:42BubblemanBut in the meantime, Hash Church 51 in session. Congregation is live. It is Sunday morning.

1:29:53TonyI'm going to get some Great Ghost Terps for the occasion. I'll be back.

1:30:00BubblemanAll right, Great Ghost Terps it is. Here comes the Terps.

1:30:06BubblemanHere come the Terps. Here come the Terps. Here come the Terps. Man, we love the Terps. Whole plants. Frozen.

1:30:17BubblemanBut a hundred people asked me where I got this shirt, so I should say it. It's at the Terp Shop. Go check it out. Go tell them Bubble Man sent you and you need a Terp shirt. He's got some other options.

1:30:31BubblemanIt's good.

1:30:35SpeakerMark, is your feed better? My feed? Sorry, Mark Scaldone, is your feed better to finish up on that point about what types of molecules, lipids are good for binding to when precipitating out lipids? That's kind of why it answers Bubble Man's point of like, when you find stuff, how come you don't call it out? And I'm like, well, because we... We don't know if we're talking out our ass, it's just a color.

1:31:01SpeakerI don't know anything about plants, but now I have a chemist to say, yes, yay or nay, and now I'm like, oh shit, he's saying there's a possibility of yay. Well now my whole platter is a whole new question.

1:31:14BubblemanWell he's doing better than that. He's offered everyone weeks ago, if not months, that he'll test your shit. I don't understand why you don't send him those little filters. If they have THC in them, we're in trouble.

1:31:28SpeakerIf they do contain, and lipids can, and some lipid fractions I've seen contain THC. And if I particularly... Well, Jeff, I pretty much, because CO2 is very similar to limonene and the things it fractions out, Jeff can basically represent a lot of that safely between the three of us. So I'd love for Jeff to step up and make the transit of a lot of things possible. That, like I said, could contain THC because we don't want to lose our Dr. Mark for accepting wild substances.

1:31:59SpeakerNo, no, and I can't do that. But the question is, is what kind of metals are we looking for? So we're looking for the bad actors like mercury, cadmium, is that, I mean, in terms of heavy metal contamination, what in particular are you looking for? In my case, I came across it as a color in my lipids that I've never seen before. I let all my lipids oxidize and watch the transition because a lot of things will look good but then go completely rancid.

1:32:33SpeakerAnd I'm like, huh, it contains something that was going to go off. So in the case of this, it came out metallic gray. And I'm like, that's not a color I know. And it's only time I knew the nutrients that went into the plant. And I'm like, that plant nutrient line has a history of, you could say, we think there's metals, there's known metals. In Canada, I can't prove it as easily as if it has a matching product in the States.

1:33:00SpeakerBut it's a rumor, so when I see a color that is metallic, I'm like, now I have to find out, is cadmium this color? Is mercury this color? I don't know, so I start with you. Yeah, well, I mean, again, I don't know if it's coming from the nutrients or coming from the soil, or where would the source of the heavy metal contamination come from, because that's going to determine what kind of metals you may or may not be looking for or be concerned with.

1:33:25BubblemanPotentially both. Potentially both. We know cannabis is a phytoremediative plant and can absorb heavy metals out of soils. So any contaminants that are in the soils that you're using could be absorbed into the plant. And we definitely know that nutrient companies are not all going organic. And there's a variety of things in there for certain, just like Todd just mentioned, that we might want to consider avoiding.

1:33:50BubblemanParticularly when concentrating, because when we concentrate, we concentrate both the good And the bad. And so it's best to get rid of that bad first. And just concentrate.

1:34:01SpeakerYeah, well, again, don't be fooled by color because just because it has a metallic color doesn't necessarily mean that there's a metal in there. You know, a very, very small amount of material can grossly color a large amount of material depending on what's referred to as the extinction coefficient. So when you're looking at this material and you think that it's metal, I mean, there are some... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:34:52SpeakerSo if you see a bright yellow color, you could assume that there's some sodium in there. And the sensitivity of that is extremely sensitive method. It's actually the basis of something called atomic absorption spectroscopy, where basically they look at the color of the flame, and they're able to determine Thank you for joining us.

1:35:27SpeakerAn ion-coupled method where essentially they're again looking at how the, in this case, where any kind of metal like copper or any other metal like iron are easily detectable down to the PPM levels. But I'm not actually concerned about those kinds of metals because those are metals that you can look at more as minerals or nutrients that are part of the soil Thank you so much for joining us.

1:36:20SpeakerWell, I guess it's a two-part response. So I guess on the one side, I guess me and Jeff would agree, when you get a plant that's been grown cleanly, the lipids come out blonde and they'll oxidize to a light orange. So That's kind of why I'm like, within a range of 150 fractions, coming up with gray and knowing that the plants come from something grown from advanced nutrients, I'm like, I don't have enough information to call someone out.

1:36:50SpeakerNow, second part, now everyone that's listening to it's like, what? There's a test. Could they use their torch and strip a piece of copper from an electric wire and be able to test things like their reclaim and any substance that... Even the stuff on their nail and look for discolorations in the flame pattern or is a Bunsen burner propane required? I don't know if you've ever seen little bright little hot spots on your nail where it will like almost like glow bright yellow or bright orange.

1:37:21SpeakerTypically that's a sodium or some type of salt like that that's essentially found its way onto the nail surface and all you're doing again is just exciting The metal by heating it up and that's why it's sort of glowing when you see those little starry specks on your nail from time to time. But no, I think there's a lot of literature that's on the web that's known about this about color metric indications of metals where you could again use indicators.

1:37:56SpeakerTypical indicators that you can use like the indicator that you use to check the pH on your pool. They have other indicators that check essentially the concentration of metals essentially for water testing and water remediation. So those types of tests are quite routine. And quite routine from what I understand in the industry in Colorado because water has to be routinely tested. So that could be applied to bubble hash water, like the mixing could actually, when you go back and test the water, you're like, holy shit, I washed off heavy metals, this batch is bunk, don't waste the dryer's time.

1:38:38SpeakerAbsolutely, yes, yes. And also, I'll go back to a point that Jeff was bringing up before, it could also be tested for bacterial contamination as well, because again, if you have any kind of soluble Thank you for watching.

1:39:11SpeakerYeah, and that's what we found, you know, there was a small amount of contamination that was on the flowers or on the trim that had actually come in, but because of the water present on the hashish while it was drying, it had this crazy bloom, and that's why we tested positive. I mean, it was, we really, we would have had a hard time to test positive with the material.

1:39:35SpeakerSo that's, yeah, got to be careful with your process.

1:39:39BubblemanBrett Maverick's asking, would the heavy metals only be a concern on edible products, or do they vaporize when you dab?

1:39:46SpeakerNo, they don't vaporize when you dab, but they will create salts that essentially will reside on the nail. I mean, the metal itself will not vaporize. It's very... Thank you for joining us.

1:40:07SpeakerIn terms of degradation product on the nail surface will be mixtures of metals and metal oxides from those small amount of degradation products in each of the dabs. I was going to ask oxide wise because like you're like saying okay well it won't vaporize I'm like well what about the other components in it that are now available because if anybody hits a wretched dab you know as that nail keeps smoking if you hit it again It's even worse and it's not a medicinal compound you're huffing.

1:40:36SpeakerSo if you put salt on the nail, what would you be vaporizing that would be dangerous if it's not the metal itself? Because I remember titanium dioxide being an issue with people roasting their nails. So I can think about all the types of contaminants that would carry through and then roast. Yeah, well, all the metals are going to form oxide surfaces at the surface. When you heat them up in the presence of air, you can't keep that from happening.

1:41:03SpeakerAnd again, now you throw the mix of different molecules from the extract in there, and, you know, God only knows. I mean, you're going to do a lot of chemistry to basically pyrolyze a lot of the non-viral constituents, Horatio, like the lipids and whatnot, that, again, don't Undergo the transition from solid to vapor they would rather decompose and where these lipids have degrees of unsaturation when those are heated up to a certain temperature in the presence of oxygen they undergo a radical fragmentation pathway and generate much smaller molecules and some of those molecules are pretty Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:42:13Speakerpolymerization oxidative degradation degradate that you know doesn't become volatile but essentially just becomes a layer of soot and carbon that lines the nail surface Just one last point because you brought up literally the science to an experience. Now, that polymerization, there are times when people give me these dabs that you're like, oh my God, what did you spray directly in my mouth? Is it wax or is it polymers?

1:42:42SpeakerOr have the waxes turned to polymers? Because it gets on your teeth to the point of scraping and I'm like, I don't understand what you extracted, but that'll kill me if I get that deep in my lungs. I won't be able to cough it up. Yeah, well, it's interesting because I think, you know, based on some of the structures I've seen of the rosins that people have been making and posting on Facebook and Instagram, I'm thinking that there's actually a unique polymer that's forming in that process to make the rosin itself.

1:43:14SpeakerI think that if you look at the materials and you look at the way that they have a lot of flecks and rubbery characteristics... Those can be very similar to small molecular cross-linked networks where these things essentially are reacting with one another. Ultimately, that's not their thermodynamic testing place because when you vaporize them on a nail at a much higher temperature, they decompose. But I think what they do is they somehow coagulate or create some type of cross-linked network that is a low energy pathway for them out when you do the pressing of the bud to actually squeeze that out.

1:43:56SpeakerThanks for watching.

1:44:18SpeakerAnd I'm not convinced that it isn't a polymerization reaction that's actually being formed there to form some kind of new polymer in rosin. But I think the high molecular weight stuff that forms that leaves the crud on the nail is mostly degradation from lipids and whatever is not volatilizing. So your cannabinoids and your terpenes are long gone. This is sort of the soot and the resin that's kind of like left behind.

1:44:50Archive SeedsTo answer your question, Mark, about what heavy metals we're looking for and where the possible sources of that, A lot of organic nutrients in general, not being a nutrient in a bottle, but just raw fish bone meal or crab meal. Those things are known in the ocean to have higher concentrations of mercury, and then you're taking that, concentrating it, then letting your soil break it down. So things like mercury, cadmium, lead from plastics, any of those things are the main concerns and sources, in my opinion, of that.

1:45:24Archive SeedsAnd those metals are

1:45:27SpeakerDr. Yeah, it's funny because the only material that's approved for organic fungicide treatment is actually not organic at all. It's inorganic. It's copper and sulfur. Copper and sulfur, by definition, All of these are not organic because organic is something that's supposed to have carbon in it. So I find that that's pretty just ironic from just sort of a classification point of view. But you're absolutely right. Those are the four metals that you've got to be concerned with.

1:46:04SpeakerSo if we review them again, they're mercury, cadmium, lead, and what was the other one? Aluminum. Aluminum's not the bad one, but so it's cadmium, mercury, lead, and I know osmium's really bad, but we don't usually find osmium in here. There's a fourth one. You had mentioned it.

1:46:29Archive SeedsIt could be, I don't know. I forget which one I said.

1:46:33SpeakerOkay, the lead, mercury, cadmium, and then the fourth one. Yeah, so all of these can come from soil contamination, certainly come from groundwater contamination as well.

1:46:43Archive SeedsI mean, one of the big concerns… You could have arsenic in some of these organic things as well, you know?

1:46:48SpeakerAbsolutely. So I think that that's the fourth one, is arsenic, which typically exists in its anionic form, which is arsenate, which is highly mobile through the soil, and in fact is one of the byproducts of the degradation of… Pressure treated lumber. Pressure treated lumber for years was treated with chromated copper arsenate and so it had chromium and arsenic.

1:47:13Archive SeedsChromium too.

1:47:15SpeakerYeah, a lot of that was leaching out of landfills and into groundwater supply. But I think that just like with mold and just like with metals, I mean these are issues that the industry is going to have to deal with because you cannot be putting a Essentially concentrated product where you're concentrating these nasties into a product where people are going to consume. This is an issue that has to be dealt with.

1:47:43Archive SeedsRight. It's not like, oh, you're doing it wrong just because you are this. It's something that we have to continually work through. And also because we're producing a product that's being smoked, not eaten, or just handled by someone or whatever, it becomes even more and more important, I think, because you have the chemical changes that occur with heat and then vaporization, and in the case of smoking, just incineration.

1:48:04Archive SeedsSo all those things become Either benign or potentially even worse depending on what processes you're using and how you're smoking it, how you're consuming it. Each of those could potentially have different health effects and in different time periods based on like if you eat lots of lead, it may be a lot worse than smoking it for all I know if you're really into edibles or something.

1:48:28SpeakerDr. Yeah. Well, again, if you think about your lifetime exposure to lead, I mean lead was used in paint for, You know, almost a half a century and so for people who are exposed to lead over their lifetime, again, if you're going to have it in something that you're actually consuming like food or cannabis, certainly it's going to be a lot worse than just coming in contact with just paint that's on the wall.

1:48:52SpeakerBut it's in our environment and we have to understand what the protocols are for assessing these types of levels of contamination. But more importantly, how do we deal with a contaminated crop when you've put a lot of time and investment into something that now is contaminated? What do you do at that point?

1:49:15Archive SeedsWell, and going into the lead and something that you put in your mouth all the time, the whole vaporizer pens, unregulated plastics manufacturing in China. I mean, I don't know if you guys know anything about plastics made in China, but it's very common for them to use all these heavy metals and Lead particularly as a filler for a lot of plastics. So I mean, you know, something you're going to put in your mouth 20 times in a day and not to mention smoking from this device and Lord knows what else is in there.

1:49:46Archive SeedsI mean, you know, those vape pens, the fact that they're made out of plastic and unregulated plastics, that is a major concern for exactly what you're saying as well.

1:49:58BubblemanMan, we just bring up all the good news on Hash Church. You should be worried, though, you know? I mean, these are things that you're using daily. Some people are using with compromised immune systems or sickness in their body, so it's like, yeah, just make it as good, just like the water that you drink. Don't you want to drink the best water? Sure, some people drink really terrible, you know, heavy metal contaminated waters that are leached out with plastic bottles the whole nine yards, but then there's other people who are really inspired to You know, get that artesian spring water out of the mountain or get some clean form of water and I don't think it's too different when it comes to food or when it comes to cannabis.

1:50:39BubblemanFood and cannabis and water, I just want them to be as clean and as petrochemical free as possible.

1:50:46Archive SeedsAnd I don't think, I don't care who it is, I seriously doubt anyone wants to suck on a lead lollipop, you know.

1:50:55BubblemanYeah, no, that's definitely, no, these are a lot of things that even over the course of the last 20 years, although I've thought of them here and there, it's nice to get discussions about them going and really have a dialogue with a variety of people from a variety of places that all have sort of different passions, but, you know, fueled by the same plant. I think it's really quite a bonus to just be able to, this hash church in particular, there's been some really great knowledge dropped In regards to, I hope that people take that information and use it to expose and to understand and to let people know that you're not going to be able to get away with this in the very near future.

1:51:37BubblemanAnd I think it's why the regulations, testing could be construed as a regulation, having to test versus not having to test. And I think that's one of the regulations that is a good one because people are not honest A lot of people use the kindness of the cannabis community, wolves in sheep's clothing, to sort of get in and take advantage of the easiest to take advantage of, the cannabis passionate advocate.

1:52:07BubblemanWho's easier to take advantage of than us?

1:52:11Etienne FontanWell, actually Colton was complaining this week that Somebody had got close to Colton, hung out with him, and wondered about his dosage and his medicine, and then turned around and tried to sell that information right back to the family as well as to other people. So he was calling out people for, you know, sucking up to Colton and having him, you know, Tell honestly, and she says they'll continue to help people openly and freely, but, you know, it's a shame that people will, you know, take advantage of patients, even in this day and age.

1:52:49Etienne FontanAnd they still do. Happened this week.

1:52:53Archive SeedsWell, I mean, in that kind of medical system we live in anymore.

1:52:59SpeakerNo, the biggest profitable industry is pharmaceutical company and this is why I think that we've been fucked for so long now and it bothers me because, you know, it's why we didn't tell the story of, I mean, I love The Emperor Wears No Clothes and it was catalyst for me getting into a lot of this but, you know, I think it was crony capitalism that really ushered in a lot of the oppression we dealt, we were dealt after World War II and it was all these corporations working in collusion to fuck off our rights because Thank you for watching.

1:53:52SpeakerNo, yeah, GE, all those big corporations, you know, once they were working together and putting politicians in place, we had no chance, I think. Washington, D.C. became just a fucking ring of whores, you know, and no disrespect to the sex workers.

1:54:08Etienne FontanAnd don't forget about the industrial military complex. It's rather complex.

1:54:16BubblemanHey, we never really talked about, I remember David Malmo Levine, and I sent him a link, but I don't think he's around right now. It would have been great to hear from him. I remember him years ago writing an article about radioactive nutrients, nutrients with With things that are radioactive in them, and I wonder between that and the amount of commercial growers who, and maybe this is not possible, but from what I know about tobacco and the half-life of radium-226 and how it breaks into chemicals and how they stick to you, and that's why you can smell them, I just wonder of the plant's ability.

1:54:50BubblemanWe know it has phytoremediative properties. It can remove radioactive nucleotides out of the soil. And I wonder if people understand that that is also a potential possibility, that these things could be getting concentrated into your flowers, depending on what kind of nutrients you're using. I would really love to get a list, along with the list that Todd spoke of earlier from Rob, and get these posted into Hash Church.

1:55:14BubblemanSo if anyone has any information on... You know, different things. I'm not looking to like just bash on companies. I would rather find out what companies are using and then we could potentially, you know, raise the fact that, hey, we would like it if you didn't use that anymore. You know, we're the customers, we're the people who will buy your product. Could you please stop using that?

1:55:33BubblemanMost of these companies, when they have these exposures like that, they'll generally, you know, remove that sort of, Product from the product. I've seen it happen before. It's just a matter of people knowing about it and talking about it.

1:55:50Etienne FontanWell, you have a list of every known contaminant that's been found in cannabis that's been published on the internet and in books. It's about 10 or 11 pages.

1:56:00BubblemanWell, that's great. You should throw that up in the group for starters.

1:56:04Archive SeedsThe thing is with most of these nutrients is the Most of the nutrients out there in terms of bottled stuff are generally the same products. It literally is just the PGR that they add to their nutrients or these small concentrations of chemicals that make their plants grow different. And that's why like if you ever, you know, I'm not going to pick on company names, but there's certain nutrient lines out there where every plant grows the same from it, right?

1:56:31Archive SeedsIt doesn't matter what variety, they all produce the same type of bud structure, same type of stem growth.

1:56:39Archive SeedsThat wouldn't happen if it was just calcium nitrate or just your salts. There's some type of growth regulator in there. Dr. For sure.

1:56:49SpeakerWe were discussing this last night, Mark. Somebody brought a canna line bud and then brought their general hydroponic and they're like, it's the same clone. I'm like, I don't understand. One is sweet and fruity and one is getting on a motorbike diesel OG Kush. Are you saying that with the, you know, how many people say, well, it's been working for 25 years and Is the cannabis plant like profile?

1:57:17SpeakerI feel like when I read something on Leafly, I'm reading a description of what cannabis will be like on general hydroponic nutrients. I'm not reading the genetic potential of the plant and its terpene profiles. Because when he showed me that, I'm like, I wouldn't even consider these the same strain, dude. And I know you're showing me the same cut, but it's like ridiculously different profile. Horatio, I'd like to point out back like 20 years ago I had the same kind of astounding, I was working with Sirius Seeds and actually at Positronics and they were both posi-sold clones openly and I mean a ton of them and then Sirius, they grew their cannabis both hydroponically and organically because at the time coffee shops marketed a bio and a hydro menu so they just wanted to, you were walking in there and you wanted hydro, they wanted good buds of Cali Mist on the menu because it was a marketing, Thank you for watching.

1:58:29SpeakerIt's completely different. And it really was astounding because it showed me that a lot of it is fit and finished because this is where it gets weirder. A lot of times, I would say 8 out of 10 times, the hydro people came back with the better looking butt, period. It seemed to be like they got everything better, or the hydro companies made sure all the nutrients were there because it was an inert medium to start with, so the plants got, basically, if the person was paying attention, a better diet.

1:58:58SpeakerThe organic ones were really relying on the soil, and if the soil's composition was inconsistent or not that high quality, it wouldn't pay off for them. They would have to supplement nutrients, even though the stuff was called all-mix. It didn't really matter, though, because I watched dirt-grown cannabis literally win the 1996 Cannabis Cup in the hydroponic division, and it was NL5 by Hays that Greenhouse had purchased and then retitled as NL5 Hays by Mist, and I knew it because I helped trim it.

1:59:29SpeakerAnd when I went to go buy some of it, the guy that was working there at the time, Scotty, or Shanty Baba now, says to me, you know, dude, we're entering it. That stuff came out so good. And I was like, I know. That's why I want some. And he was like, well, you know, wish us luck. And it won. It won them the hydro division because people didn't really, you can't tell.

1:59:48SpeakerI mean, people, all these experts, they couldn't, they were telling me, oh, I'm not going to smoke that, Todd. It's in the hydro. It's not organic. And I'm like, you're idiots, okay? I watched the guy grow it. He buys his shit at Posi. He clear watered it, believe it or not, for 10 weeks, and he didn't even add other chemicals. So to me, it's a lot of fit and finish in the way that the grower handles it, finishes it, and then handles it after he dries it because this is where it falls apart for most people.

2:00:14SpeakerThey don't understand relative humidity. They don't understand how to actually get the gases, which is oxygen and moisture, out of the plant and then how to capture some of the terpenes. They either dry too fast. Dr. I mean, a lot of people that grow cannabis are just in a hurry to get rid of it, and I hope that changes because, you know, when you have cannabis that has been not just dried properly but cured for months, it's so pleasurable, you know, so pleasurable, and that's where I hope it goes.

2:00:47Archive SeedsDr. Yeah, I mean, I have friends, you know, I've grown hydro and soil side by side, same strain, same clones for many, many years. I still have friends that talk about some of my hydro batches from 10 years ago in Rockwell just because from the consumer standpoint, it looks frostier. It's fatter buds. Everything's like vibrant green. Like you said, it has to do with availability of nutrients to the soil or to the roots, excuse me.

2:01:14Archive SeedsIf the roots people have a free-for-all choice and you're constantly giving them anything they could ever want, the plant's going to grow itself. You know, I would like to say they have a better control of the pH in their root zone because really what happens is the uptake of the nutrients is really what's happening because, you know, everyone…

2:01:44SpeakerLook, the nutrients don't only do half the work. You have photosynthesis that does the other half of the work when we're really having this conversation about what's going on in there. If your root zone is in soil and that soil has the wrong pH, it's fucking with you. Thank you for watching.

2:02:22SpeakerAnd really, when you think that a plant that takes 10 weeks, only flowers for really strong, six of the 10 weeks, because the flowers don't really come in until week three or four, you're cutting off almost 20% to 30% of its lifetime's food. And why? Because certain fruits actually are flushed of the excess sugars left in the plant, because it'll help them taste sweeter if you do this.

2:02:46SpeakerAnd a plant doesn't have salts built up inside. It has sugars built up inside. And what Simon of all people loves Serious Seeds because I asked Rob Clark, doesn't flush. Trichrome Technologies, doesn't flush. I asked fucking other guys, Simon, doesn't flush at Serious Seeds. And a lot of the people when I ask them, they're like, It's silly, and if you really want to flush, feed all the way up to the end, give them nutrients, let the resin express themselves, let the trichromes fill up, and then if you really want to, cut them off from their base, stick them in a bucket of clean water, and let them just suck up water for a few days.

2:03:21SpeakerAnd literally like a stick of celery, it will actually transpire it out. It'll burn off the excess sugars that are inside that bud if you really want to do it. And then cure it and tell me if you think that's better from when you just cut it down. Because I don't think that it's going to improve that much because we don't eat it like it's a grape.

2:03:42SpeakerWe don't eat it like it's a sweet fruit, you know? So this is really where it kind of changes out. It's the starches I believe they want to get out when they're really trying to flush a fruit.

2:03:54Archive SeedsWell, I think you're making a great point, but I think what a lot of people perceive as being flushing what they're doing, they're not actually doing it all. You can add a million gallons of water to your soil if the roots are unable to eat through the nutrients stored in the soil or the salts that are built up in your soil. It'll never flush. So if your plant is at, let's say, eight weeks in flower and you give it straight water or it dried out or the roots weren't that healthy in the first place, it doesn't matter how much water you run through it, the plant's still not going to flush because flushing is technically the plant eating through stored nutrients in itself, right?

2:04:33Archive SeedsNow, the plant will look like it's eating through the stored nutrients in itself, even if the medium is completely locked out with salts. It's 100% possible that if your pH is so whacked off that phosphorus is unavailable to the plant, you'll start getting purple looks on the leaf, and some guy will be like, yeah, that's flushing for sure. It's really not. The pH is so low that phosphorus is unavailable in the plant.

2:04:55Archive SeedsIt's asking for phosphorus, actually asking for food, and unable to get it. That looks like flushing, but it's actually nutrient lockout.

2:05:05SpeakerDr. You could do that being out of the wrong pH range.

2:05:07Archive SeedsDr. You're right. That's people who are like, oh, I flushed my shit for three weeks, and it still burns black. That's why, is because the plant never actually ate through anything. You actually had a salt buildup that the root system was so unhealthy, it was unable to eat through, even within itself, much less the medium itself. That's why flushing with rock wool is so easy because it's a non-porous medium, so it holds no nutrients.

2:05:32Archive SeedsWhen you flush water through rock wool, it actually flushes nutrients out, whereas a lot of other mediums, it doesn't. Not 100% if you have salt buildup, but if it's a small block in a big plant, there's only so much nutrients that can be stored in a four-inch block with a two-and-a-half-foot plant coming out of it.

2:05:52BubblemanWell, that's all solid information right there, dude.

2:05:54Etienne FontanThank you for sharing. I put my list up of contaminants on the Facebook.

2:06:05BubblemanGreat. Thank you, Etienne. People can go check that out if they like. Good conversation. This is the sort of thing we need to be sharing on Hash Church.

2:06:13SpeakerYou know, I actually did flush for a little while because, you know, when I heard others doing it, I was like, well, you know, fuck. But when I asked Rob, because I always go back to people that are smarter than me because I think I'm just learning. Every day I'm just learning about this, you know. And, you know, that's why maybe I asked more than one person because, you know, and it's funny because when I got a consensus of people that are really professional growers, you know, Simon Schmidt went to school because he thought he would get a job in the tulip industry when he got out, you know, be a big greenhouse operator and then he was like, hmm, ganja.

2:06:44SpeakerSo, I think it's great applied technologies, but when you ask us experts, and Simon gave me the best answer, which was, you know, cut them out, let them suck up water if you really want to purge it, and then just let it go until they faint. People can do it with buds. I do it all the time. Cut it out, leave it on my desk. It looks pretty.

2:07:01SpeakerYou know, do a full flush of a bud and see if it burns any different from the stuff you didn't do. But I'd say this, too. If you feed all the way up to the end of the plant's life, You're going to get better resin expressed. You're going to get better trichromes. You're going to get more turps. Starving isn't going to help.

2:07:18Archive SeedsDr. No, but I will say that certain types of stress, induced stress that we do on purpose as cannabis cultivators, if you actually do nitrogen leaf sampling and stuff, You know, when you grow plants, I had a friend that used to grow everything by testing the leaf samples up in Mendo every year, and he always had the fattest nuggets, and they were, I mean, you know, arm-sized colas everywhere, but it rarely was some of the tastiest herb, and it wasn't as curing or anything.

2:07:53Archive SeedsIt had to do with that he was growing for biomass and biomass alone, right? It wasn't actually about trichomes or anything like that to him. He just wanted the biggest, fattest nuts with the fattest yields per plant. When we apply the principles of tomato farming, that's exactly what they're trying to do. They want the most yield period. They're not trying to achieve a certain type of product.

2:08:16Archive SeedsAs we know, there's a lot of strains out there that grow different depending on how you grow them, right? And that can play a big role into how you want to cultivate your plant or how you want to feed it as well.

2:08:28SpeakerYeah, I can't. One thing I don't like is people that generalize how cannabis grows because we used to do a room at Posse with four 600s and we'd put like, Noah, two of each of our clones in it every cycle and we'd pop them all at the same time. They'd all go in like, you know, six to eight, eight inches high. And what we would do is it was to show the people that came in, our customers, how vastly different the genetics reacted in the same The growing situation, so you know, the NL5s and the Hazes would all be, you know, they'd pass the lights, which were all the way to the ceiling, and they'd be growing up into the dark area, and then you'd have little B52s and Hindu Kush's, and you could literally see the range of, you know, quicker flowering cannabis to longer flowering cannabis right in front of you as you made your way to the cantina.

2:09:15SpeakerIt was really not just, you know, interesting, but it was kind of educational for people that We were able to teach them what veg time meant and why some plants needed to be grown for a while because they would literally stop growing like spring growing when they would start flowering and others would just continue to flower in growth. So it was a good teaching tool as well.

2:09:40Archive SeedsWell, and if you were to just simply change the temperature of the room and the light intensity, the plants would look totally different again. The indicas would start to stretch out and they would get bigger than they would in a room that has really high light intensity because when you put an indica right under a light, I mean, they stay small. But if you put one in the corner, it'll stretch out and it'll get a little bigger.

2:09:59SpeakerCooler rooms, you'll have less what's called internode spacing. So if you keep your rooms at a cooler temperature, you won't get as much stretching.

2:10:08Archive SeedsRight, which is what I was going to say with like if you have a sativa right next to an indica in a room, if you were to lower the temperature in the room, the sativa could look completely different than it did in an 82 degree room just simply because the shortening of the internodes and everything that a 70 degree room would make a sativa do.

2:10:26SpeakerWell, you know what's interesting? Neville himself told me with Hayes, anything over 10 weeks, he said, if you're growing from clone, don't give it any French time. Because if you go and see a green, and at the time we were having a conversation about Dutch, and my friend that won the cup in 96 with the NL5 by Hayes, he pulled off one of the cleanest, he had simply four lights, four 600s, in what was basically four square meters, but he had maybe a one foot path in between.

2:10:55SpeakerHe ran dirt. He went five weeks to each side, so there was some cross-lighting, but with 88 plants, he pulled off over 1,400 grams. He averaged 16 grams a plant with, you're going to love it, zero days pre-grow. He would cut his clones around the 15th. They'd get about two weeks to root. He would cut 100 clones. He'd use 88 of them. Pop them in the two square meters, and then five weeks later, you know, really, two weeks later, he would cut clones for the next side.

2:11:24SpeakerTwo weeks after that, he'd be popping them in the next side, and this was his little life. And he managed to average literally over 1,400 grams from just 1,200 watts with 88 plants with zero days pre-grow, and honestly, one of the most productive gardens I've ever witnessed or trimmed for or hung out and smoked.

2:11:43Archive SeedsYeah, I mean, just to go off what you're saying, I used to run those Omega Gardens, the ones that spin around the bulb. That was 10 years ago, but I could grow, because when those things turn, the internode spacing is tiny. I grew a 90-day super silver haze clone that came from Jeff in that thing, and it was 18 inches to the bulb, so this plant was 16 1⁄2 inches, and they yielded 10 to 14 grams a plant.

2:12:10Archive SeedsAnd, you know, off two 600s and a four foot by five foot footprint, it was two and a half pounds from 1,200 watts, which isn't anything close to 1,400 grams. But it was in a very, very small footprint of only 20 square feet.

2:12:26SpeakerYeah, if you have your shit together, you don't need a lot of space actually to be very productive. And, you know, it's brilliant. He actually built a little lean-to in his room that was literally came out about eight feet by nine feet against the wall like a little. And he literally could wave to me from his grow room window when I left at night. And, you know, he still used the room for trimming and a bunch of other stuff.

2:12:51SpeakerHe used the little built-in closet for his clones and his moms. And I was astounded because, you know, so many people go so much bigger and then produce so much less.

2:13:00Archive SeedsEfficiency in agriculture.

2:13:04BubblemanThe best way to be in Amsterdam because there is just not that much room there.

2:13:13Archive SeedsAnd when this becomes real farming, right, I mean, real farms producing corn and everything else operate on extremely slim margins. And if you're wasting money anywhere, you won't be able to farm next year unless you've got excellent government subsidies. So until they start subsidizing weed, you know, follow the corn farmers.

2:13:34SpeakerI would like to say, guys, you know, you all know where I was just spent the last few weeks with Sensi, and I, oh my God, they recoup every drop of water they use for nutrients. They are so energy and environmentally aware and efficient. It is unbelievable. I mean, I don't, I didn't, you don't expect anything less from someone that's been doing it for 30 years, but when you go there and you witness it, it is incredible.

2:13:59SpeakerUnbelievable. I mean, in some ways we are so far behind in America with our practices and the way we put, you know, they're using industrial applications, they're having Philips come out and do their lighting and, you know, like, it's all on a different level. But when we get to that place of legality, I think we're going to see a real drop in cost of production. If that makes sense.

2:14:21SpeakerBecause we'll finally be able to use rooms that are big enough that dissipate the heat and we can put our lights distances we want. It's going to change considerably. I mean you walk there and you look through their stuff and it's like visiting the future. You know I posted a picture of Ben in front of one of his many LED rooms that are for testing and it's spectacular to see.

2:14:42SpeakerI mean on that larger scale.

2:14:46BubblemanHell yeah, it's impressive is what it is. I myself just came back from photographing over on Vancouver Island at Tilray's facility and my goodness, holy smokes. Those guys just have the most ridiculous facility that you, you just can't even imagine that someone built that. Like the most ridiculous indoor grow that I have for sure ever been in. And always kind of pretty stoked to photograph there. Like they've got beautiful plants, you know, and they grow a lot of plants.

2:15:19BubblemanThey have an enormous facility. I don't know how many lights there are, but it has to be, you know, some thousands or over a thousand anyway. All burning and all beautiful tables. Just the whole thing is that their facility is... If you've spent any amount of time in grow rooms in your life, there's no way that you can't be... Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:16:11BubblemanWe're always more of an agricultural grower than a prohibition gardener that gardened in his basement or indoors. You know what I mean? They're always the guys that were like Rob and Skunk Man and guys that had the greenhouses and guys that had the licenses and guys that just knew how to do it right to be able to do it properly. Everyone else was like, well, I can't do it properly, i.e.

2:16:39Bubblemanlegally. So I'll just do it the only way that I can figure out how to do. And some people got pretty good. I did see some incredible facilities, but nothing compared to the people who go more along the lines of the agricultural world, like how we grow food, how we grow plants. It's like those, you know, taking out a lot of different styles and platforms that have been sold in the cannabis world.

2:17:06BubblemanOnce you get into the bigger players with these large greenhouses... It's almost always exclusively very similar. They do things in a way that is just done in agricultural products. So it'll be interesting to see where we go in the next 10 to 20 years. I wonder one day if indoor growing will be, you know, not a thing of the past, but maybe just a thing not quite so popular once cannabis' price has gone down, down, down.

2:17:38SpeakerI wonder why it would be economically difficult to grow indoors and have it be worth anything but a passionate hobby. You know, you'll see guys like they have woodworking, you know, or whatever in their basements and it's a silly amount of equipment, you know, considering they make, you know, desks and bureaus Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:18:25SpeakerA really beautiful greenhouse with augmented lighting. Oh my gosh. And then being able to shade it with automation, it's the future of legal growing.

2:18:38Archive SeedsYeah, I mean I think one thing that, I mean what we're doing is very similar to every other kind of agriculture. The one thing that we have that's very different in this is there's a big, There's a lot of people that care more about what kind of cannabis they're smoking, whether it's a strain or a type of grow or any of this. How many people you know that are like, I only eat this kind of tomato grown this way?

2:19:04Archive SeedsNot very many, right? So for us, You know, I think the cannabis market in terms of general population, there's more people that want a certain, that are more boutique and will continue it as a craft hobby in the future than, say, celery or carrots or something. I mean, there are a lot of people that care about their produce at their home too, but it's not quite as widespread, I guess.

2:19:33SpeakerYeah, I agree with you. I think people are way, you know, the double standard that's held against cannabis is pretty crazy, I think, in a lot of ways. I mean, I, you know, people that sit there smoking cigarettes, talking shit about fucking, you know, pot at times, it's like, dude, seriously.

2:19:49Archive SeedsAnd I, How many people do you know that have, you know, 10 different varieties of orchids in their home? How many 20-, 30-year-old kids that have 10 different kinds of clones in their home? You know? There's a lot of closet home cultivators that are keeping this plant alive where it typically wouldn't. I think that's going to continue to a certain degree.

2:20:09SpeakerWasn't that the beauty of cannabis? It's resilience and it's adaptability. The fact we can grow it in our closets and even the coldest of environments. Try to do that with tobacco or opium poppies.

2:20:20Archive SeedsMangoes. Do you want to grow a mango tree in your closet?

2:20:24SpeakerI hope they don't prohibit mangoes. Man, I really, really, really, really, really like mangoes.

2:20:32BubblemanYou guys are hilarious.

2:20:36SpeakerOh yeah, Hash Snowman, not so funny, right? Hash Snowman. Mr. Hash Snowman.

2:20:46BubblemanDid we lose Tony? Is he still around? No, just his wall.

2:20:53BubblemanI guess he never got to work Hannah's mic. That's too bad. I was looking forward to listening to her story. Well, next week maybe for the one year anniversary we could get her in here. Might be time for a little cannabis, a little bubble hash actually. A little bubbly bubbly.

2:21:15SpeakerSo hey, Mark Scaldone, I'm wondering, is there a way that you can get tests to look at? Maybe, could Horatio find somewhere to send off these filters in Canada so that he doesn't have to worry about crossing the border to get tested? I mean, what are your thoughts on that? What kind of lab? What would I ask for? Would I say like, hey, you know, I've got some fat and I think it's got, where would I, how would you approach that when you're not looking at it from a cannabis standpoint?

2:21:53SpeakerSo you're looking for heavy metal contamination? Not just that. I've got a whole scope of oxidized lipids that have elicited all kinds of colors and patterns. And I'm like, yeah, I've seen this green before. I bet that fucking guy's not XYZ. I'm going to break my relationship off with him. It's literally my main ultimate test is those lipids tell me whether you're lying about 30 years of clean meds or not.

2:22:21SpeakerIt's the most important test I have right now compared to any lab is what I see in the lipids.

2:22:31SpeakerYeah, I mean, there's, okay, so two things. So again, heavy metals, there are very sensitive methods for testing the, again, would think that what you can do, Horatio, is just keep tabs on your concentration and dilute it in some food, already existing food product, maybe, and then, and send it off to a lab for testing, if you're looking for metals, again. So, um, For example, if you're going to take a wax fraction that you've gotten your wax away from your extract now and you don't have any or very minimal cannabinoids but you're looking to see if that wax contains any of these heavy metal contaminants, What you can then do is just take that wax and say dilute it in a known volume of say, I don't know, soybean oil or something like that, that you're also going to send for testing to make sure that the diluent is clean.

2:23:33SpeakerAnd yeah, send that to a food testing laboratory that can test for trace metals and say we're just looking to qualify this material in a process and we're looking for, yeah, the four bad actors again are Mercury, Cadmium, Lead and Arsenic. So I think that those four metals can be tested down to the part per billion range if that's what you're concerned with. So that would also qualify for pesticides possibly that I'm like hey look I'm trying to make not a brownie but something else useful that is a food product and say look I'm getting some raw material and I'm worried about pesticides and I'm worried about lipid basically using the industry we're hoping cannabis becomes but hopefully you know by not focusing on the THC portion in testing getting better lab results from the food industry.

2:24:35SpeakerWell pesticides are a completely different enchilada because again there's not necessarily a method that's useful for all of the different pesticides that could potentially be contaminating cannabis and so I know in Colorado recently they've had some issues with some fungicide and insecticide contaminated cannabis that again these products are mostly used for food crops And not meant to be used on a botanical that's going to be inhaled or smoked at high temperature.

2:25:15Archive SeedsMost of them are for turf, actually. Like Eagle 20s for turf only, no food uses at all.

2:25:22SpeakerYeah, but I can tell you that that belongs to a class of compounds that's widely used in food. Okay. The same mode of action can be used in food or can be used for turf control. The thing with turf control is it doesn't have to pass the regulatory muster of the FDA because it's not being applied directly to food because you're just using it to control pests and disease at, say, golf courses and, you know,

2:25:53SpeakerI think a lot of these places again that use the professional turf control, a lot of that stuff, some of that is persistent in the environment. And just because it's being used on the lot that's next to you, it could certainly wash into the water supply and still have a persistent effect in the water supply as well. So it depends on exactly what products they're using.

2:26:17Archive SeedsIt's been shown like with golf courses, with the use of all those turf pesticides, insecticides, that people that like lick, there's people that would like spit or lick on their ball, right, to get it off when they get on the putt, and people got cancer, you know, and they stopped using some on golf courses because some people were getting, you know, exposed, you know, due to their own, you know, not knowing about it.

2:26:42SpeakerThey should have never licked their own balls.

2:26:45Archive SeedsI guess.

2:26:46BubblemanWell, you know when you can.

2:26:48SpeakerIf you can, I'm surprised you're not right now. Hey Jeff, did that answer your question? Yeah, it got me a little bit closer. I think that we've got a lot of questions as far as what's in these waxes. You know, I mean, I found everything from, you know, really nice color. This is wax right here. That's just cannabis wax. It's been melted. I've had any ethanol cooked out of it.

2:27:22SpeakerAnd it looks just like some beeswax. But I've had things come out of cannabis that were scarlet red. I mean, as red as you could possibly have it. And that is a constituent that was mixing with the lipids that I'm pulling out. And I don't know what that is. And so, you know, I don't see that very often. But in certain lots of cannabis, I will get certain colors that come to the waxes, just like Horatio is saying.

2:27:55SpeakerAnd I kind of wonder... This is CO2 extraction, Jeff? You're doing CO2, right? CO2 extraction and then ethanol precipitation. Yeah, so that's a really common theme I'm seeing in supercritical CO2. The extracts tend to be reddish-brown in color. Is that a general trend that you're seeing as well? Well, I'm not even talking about the extract itself being red. I'm talking about something that's being filtered out. So, generally, I'll have a really nice white wax or slightly creamy colored wax, slightly off-white, but in certain circumstances, I'll find these little tiny micro red Specs basically that precipitate out of the solution when it's winterized with ethanol and then filtered.

2:28:52SpeakerAnd these red specs, I have no clue really what that is at all. But when I heat that wax up to make a candle from it, it goes right, that pigment goes right into the wax and disperses and I have a scarlet red candle that I get from it. Which is beautiful, but I'm scared as to what it is. Wow, that's cool. Let's run an NMR of that.

2:29:20SpeakerI'll tell you exactly what it is. Excellent, excellent. I have some red on a filter that I saved from a long time ago from that batch. Do you have any HPLC or GC data on that at all? Not on the waxes. It's never... Yeah, I mean, the lipids, it's just never been worth it for me to spend the $50 to get a cannabinoid result, because that's all I'm going to get from them.

2:29:49SpeakerI mean, you know, I can get the data from them, but they're only analyzing for those certain things. Okay. Yeah, let's talk offline. Yeah, sounds good. No, you will talk online. This is Hat Church, motherfuckers. I tell you what, we'll talk offline. We'll generate some experimental data and we'll share that online. How does that sound? Dude, you know what?

2:30:15BubblemanYou get a pass, Mark. You get a pass.

2:30:17SpeakerNice. It's about time I did something right.

2:30:24BubblemanOh my goodness. That's all good dialogue right there, boys. No complaints on that. People are having a good chat in the chat as well. Brett Maverick's in there asking questions.

2:30:40SpeakerWell, I want to ask some questions because I'm reading the label of Eagle 20 and I'm looking at it and it's saying stone fruits, apricots, cherries, applications may be made up to the day of harvest and it's fucking showing you exactly what it says, apples and grapes. I would like some clarity. Nectarine, peaches, plums, that all sounds like food. Actually kind of making me hungry, I'm not going to lie.

2:31:09SpeakerYeah, but you don't have to heat up any of those things to consume them, right?

2:31:15SpeakerWell, does that make it better? We're eating pesticides that aren't heated up on our apples and on our grapes and on our fucking apricots and cherries. What happens when we dump that cherry into a drink and the alcohol fucking... Yeah, the point is that the active ingredient breaks down... We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

2:31:40SpeakerWe're going to talk a little bit about what we're going

2:32:00SpeakerAll of these things into noxious materials that you don't want to be inhaling.

2:32:05Archive SeedsI mean to go off what you're saying too, dominozide, which is the plant growth regulator, one of the two that's in phospholode, right, and it is in a lot of other flower hardeners. That was outlawed in 1988 for use on apples because when it was pasteurized and it reached temperature, it created carcinogens that would give kids cancer basically and they pulled it all off the shelf. They didn't realize that it was only in the processing of making apple juice, I think, that they really started seeing the negative effects of it.

2:32:43SpeakerAbsolutely right. That's correct. Apple Juice brought that stuff up on the radar. And I want to clarify, I'm not pro-Eagle 20 at all. I'm not pro-Eagle 20. I'm just, I'm reading the label, and I'm just... Yeah, no, I was wrong.

2:32:57Archive SeedsI thought it was just for turf.

2:32:58SpeakerNo, no, it's the same thing. I had somebody tell me Avid was a band in California, and you can pick it up in Santa Rosa. It's like, really, the amount of misinformation is obnoxious. And the person telling them that was the guy at the hydro store going and buying Avid down the street, putting it in little bottles and selling it off-label. That's where the crime was happening, you know what I mean?

2:33:20SpeakerAnd pretending like he was giving the guy some special shit that was fucking prohibited in the state when, you know, it was a lie. Look, these products are called azole fungicides, and these are not…

2:33:36SpeakerThis is similar to myconazole, which is used to control athlete's foot. It has very, very low mammalian toxicity. There's very, very low incidence of mammalian toxicity because it blocks an enzyme that's only in the fungus, and it's just not in people. The thing that I'm concerned about is that, especially with Eagle 20, if you look at the structure of Eagle 20, I'm going to give you a little bit of background on what we're talking about today.

2:34:09SpeakerI'm going to give you a little bit of background on what we're talking about today. I'm going to give you a little bit of background on what we're

2:34:30SpeakerDegradation products are safe to human exposure. That's what's in the marketplace today. That's what's being used on fruits and vegetables and everything that's being run in production agriculture today. The fact is that a lot of those products should not be sprayed on a fallier application on something that's going to be meant to be heated up. That's my issue with this. Dr. The fact that they're not thermally stable, they're all going to degrade.

2:35:00SpeakerThe issue with concentrate, obviously, is that if it's on the plant, it's going to be in the concentrate and going to be more concentrated by definition. If you have a level of fungicide or herbicide that's essentially applied to the plant, it might be okay in terms of the plant, but when you concentrate that oil, a lot of the extraction solvents and a lot of the processes All of these people are not going to discriminate, and they're going to concentrate that material right along with it.

2:35:32SpeakerTodd, it sounds like the label you're reading hasn't been busted yet because they're basically saying, well, it's your fault you heated it up. No one told you to make apricot pie. But if you eat it all off the plant, it's all these lawyer-approved wordings that allow people to skirt labels. And then one day, like I think this week, some brand of butane got busted because they completely skirted the import laws and were making butane locally.

2:36:00SpeakerAnd then basically saying, you know, good for extracts and had nothing to do with lighters, which is the only way you're supposed to be able to can butane. So I can totally see them being like, well, we never intended anyone to heat up the plants they grew by cooking them for consumption. We'll change your labels when you change the laws.

2:36:23SpeakerYou know, just to say a conversation, I totally didn't write the label at Eagle 20. No, I'm kidding. But you know what, though? You didn't write the label at Eagle 20? It trips me a little bit, because why can we put this shit on apricots and peaches, and then if we put it on... I'm just trying to figure out all things being equal, and I do think we don't totally smoke peaches.

2:36:44SpeakerIn between your toes when you get athlete's foot, okay? Say that again? In between your toes when you get athlete's foot. Okay, what is that? Not smokable. It's the same class of fungicides that Eagle 20 belongs to, which are the azole fungicides, which essentially are, again, very, very safe in terms of mammalian toxicity. That's my point that I'm trying to bring up. So they're able to control fungus from affecting fruit yields.

2:37:18SpeakerWould you say it's because all the things they describe around have a surface and are washed before consumption, where cannabis is a flower with an open structure? You can wash cannabis after you harvest, but is it really the issue because we're consuming flowers versus looking at them? All those fruits are things that have a surface to protect their innards. Yeah, I mean, if you look at the hydrophobic structure of the active ingredient itself, it's going to be absorbed right into the essential oil components of the plant.

2:37:50SpeakerAnd washing cannabis, you can wash it all you want. It's not going to remove anything. It's like trying to clean your bong out with water.

2:38:04SpeakerEveryone's tried to do that when they find there's nothing in the house. I'll just rinse it really hot and shake it really hard. I watched Mark do it with a little hot water and a touch of alcohol. He walked away with a clean rig. Five minutes later, I was blown away.

2:38:18BubblemanYeah, that is... Come on, Mark.

2:38:19SpeakerWhat's your recipe for a clean bong in Barcelona?

2:38:23BubblemanYou know what? Anytime I don't have access to a lot of alcohol and I usually bring it with me, I just... I use very, very hot water, like boiling water out of a tea kettle, and I'll just pour it through the bong. You have to be very careful because the bong becomes so warm, but you can put the tiniest amount of iso and just a couple of shakes and that bong is clean.

2:38:47SpeakerRemember, as soon as that hot water gets cooled when it hits the pipes in your plumbing system, all of that wax is going to crash out onto the walls of the pipes in your home, okay?

2:39:00BubblemanAnd it's going to create a... Oh, I don't want to pour that down my drain.

2:39:05SpeakerOkay, all right. Yeah, I was just going to say, I mean, if you're doing it at a hotel drain, that's perfectly fine. I'm saying if you're doing it at home... You could fool yourself in thinking that you're dissolving it, but as soon as it hits the cold piping of your house's pipes, that stuff's going to plaque out just like cholesterol. Can we bring something up now then?

2:39:27SpeakerSo water is not a solvent, but if I heat it up, it dissolves oil? So the magic of warmth turns it into a solvent? Yeah. The same way your emotion happened by changing the pH. Water's that awesome. I know. I know water's a solvent. I know. The heat turning it into a liquid. Is that correct, Mark? It's not the water's a solvent. Basically, the solubility of cannabis oil in water is a function of temperature.

2:40:00SpeakerThe higher the temperature, the more oil you're able to solvate in the continuous water phase. But what you're basically doing is by heating up the water is you're just making the molecules move faster. And when the molecules move faster, they can interact more than being two separate phases.

2:40:22BubblemanI have a friend who smokes a ridiculous amount of bongs. And he had a sink that he cleaned his bong in for many, many years, two and a half decades. And the pipe was big coming out of that sink. And one day the sink just literally stopped draining. And he got the plumber in and they had to cut out a big section of the pipe. And the pipe was like a fully plugged artery.

2:40:47BubblemanIt was literally like a huge section of his pipe was just fucking resin. He couldn't even believe it, but it did take him 25 years to do that. He does smoke more than most people.

2:41:04SpeakerFor some reason, do you think you would make more reclaim with oil? Because, like, I mean, with oil, we seem to clean our rigs every three days. And I'm like, man, those Wook houses with, like, six dudes with dreads, I could see that pipe jamming up real fast over a summer. Yeah. Yeah.

2:41:24TonyOil definitely reclaims more. You hear that, Mark?

2:41:29SpeakerIt's always those guys with dreads you got to look out for, Mark. Where'd Mark go? I'm here. He's fucking chewing, I know. What? Suddenly we bring out dreadlocks? Your camera goes off? Come on, bro. That was when I met you. You're dreadlocked out. He has dread experience, guys. He may look clean cut now, but not so much. I was looked out. I was looked out.

2:41:53Etienne FontanOh, you were very whooped at.

2:41:54SpeakerYou were a free whoop. You were a whoop before there were whoops. Now that I whoop and think about it, that's a winner. Mark the trendsetter. The grand whoop.

2:42:16BubblemanSo here is... 1998 in Panajachel, Guatemala.

2:42:28SpeakerWorking. The dude on the right is going to smoke up all the hash.

2:42:32Etienne FontanThe brand look right before us all.

2:42:36SpeakerDude, that's my friend, man. I had to re-meet you with your short hair and, you know, conservative attire.

2:42:54BubblemanHad to eat the little bit of food that my wife brought me.

2:43:03BubblemanAnd drink a little water. Ah, life-sustaining water. I filter my hash through it. Here's one. Who here likes to filter their hits through water? And who prefers to filter their hits through no water? And let's get into the standard argument that usually happens once in a while.

2:43:22SpeakerI used to travel without water and tend to piss people off.

2:43:28Etienne FontanSo most people like water, so I ended up putting water in my pipe, but for the most part, Todd and I were having this discussion a long time ago, and it's like, well, if we're down to concentrate form, which is here, what are we filtering out with water? Okay, and I go through that, but then, you know, I get resin that, you know, collects in my pipe and in my, you know, thing here, so there's something that's happening.

2:43:57Etienne FontanSo, floor.

2:44:02SpeakerOkay, so it definitely cools the temperature, right, because when it's coming off the nail, it's definitely at a much, much higher temperature. And you're basically shocking that high temperature plume of oil when it hits the water that a lot of the oil molecules are just going to plaque out because, again, they're not soluble in water. But as, again, that plume takes its journey through the water and eventually ends up in the tube and coming up, I mean, yeah, you're basically just taking out a big chunk of what you're vaporizing.

2:44:35SpeakerNow Mark, here's a question, because if you go around and smell different rigs, some are so ratchet, and not just from excess smoking, but what you're smoking that you could, it's the last line of defense, which is the water filtration, so you might lose cannabinoids, but you might, that might be the last time you have to crash out a lot of the nasties. Yeah, well, if you're getting nasties, yes.

2:45:03Etienne FontanThen how often should you replace your bong water then?

2:45:09SpeakerWell, in smoking, everybody knows what it smells like when you spill that bong water. All of that didn't go in your lungs, and it doesn't smell like cannabis. In the case of burning it, it smells like rotten ash.

2:45:26SpeakerYeah, there's a lot of crap in there. There's a lot of stuff in there, but I think when you spill rig water as opposed to bond water, you don't get a lot of those acrid smells, do you?

2:45:39BubblemanI guess really in the end, it's quite a personal... Lost your audio there, Bubble Man.

2:45:51Etienne FontanYou silenced yourself.

2:45:53SpeakerYep. Well I for the longest time had not done this but just recently did this which is where we used a decent sized bong that had a decent size to it and the guy had packed ice in it. And that was a totally wonderful experience that I totally forgot that iced bong hen is a real, real nice delivery because it's ultra, ultra cold. And when it gets into your lungs, it seems to taste very different too as well.

2:46:36SpeakerAlright, I'll bring up an old school way to smoke, so don't judge it, but do you remember ice, milk, and rum in the bong? I don't know, I did a lot of time in Europe, so a lot of strange things happened, but some of our European viewers... Like, I remember putting milk in the bong to make it creamier. Yeah, I never did that, but we did salt.

2:46:59SpeakerNow, salt, there's a basis for putting salt in the bong water, which is now... The water is basically having to use a lot of its energy to keep the salt in solution so it doesn't readily take the water soluble components that are in the smoke coming through.

2:47:16Archive SeedsNice. I got another question, Dr. Mark. When you take a bomb toke and you're percolating it through water by taking hot, dry smoke and passing it through water, it basically is working like a You're basically super saturating that stream that you're bringing through it with water, absolutely, yeah.

2:47:40SpeakerRight.

2:47:40Archive SeedsIt's like how a swamp cooler works, how everything, you know, you cool air by adding cold water vapor.

2:47:45SpeakerRight. Absolutely.

2:48:03SpeakerAnd, you know, people have flavored their bong waters before. I don't know if anyone has any experience with that. I think that's bogus myself.

2:48:12Archive SeedsI mean, I've heard of all kinds of things in bong water. I mean, I remember people talking about putting ether in it, and I was like, wouldn't you catch on fire or something, you know?

2:48:22SpeakerBut I guess you can use things like rose water, and there's other aromatic waters, again, that you could use in your bong water to give Give the herb a more herbal, flavorful, floral taste if that's what you like. I don't personally like that.

2:48:38Etienne FontanI'm not a fan of adulterants in any way, shape, or form. I do use ResBlock because it definitely, my friend helped create that from 420 Science and it just uses... Fruit concentrates, and it just keeps the resin from sticking to your bong, so if you need to go, you just hit it with some warm water, shake it, and it pretty much is all good. But still, I would recommend a quick hit with salt and alcohol, and you're good to go.

2:49:09SpeakerHey Todd, what data is this that I'm looking at here that you shared in the chat? The links above it. You see the, actually, plant growth regulators are what was brought up to me, PGRs. And so that was an article, if you see up just 1144, you'll see, and that little part was a list of these, Bushmaster, Packer Butazol, Gravity, and then it shows how much is in it.

2:49:35SpeakerSo Bushmaster has 271 pots per million, Packer Butazol, Gravity has 516, twice as much. Flower Dragon, holy fuck. Oh no, okay, that's a different, it has 4.3 parts per million, but then you'd have to just figure it out, yeah. Yeah, so this is what you're looking at, and that's a link to it, and you know, I was just having to sit there and figure it out, go through my email for a second, and then I found this older link to it, so I just posted it in Hashtag as well.

2:50:02SpeakerThese things are getting through the plant. I mean, the problem is, is that, you know, if we're not conscientious about what we're putting into the product, the product's going to make its way into us.

2:50:12Archive SeedsWell, almost all of these things, all these products that you labeled, not a single one of them has those on the label, right, as ingredients in that nutrient. And that's the problem with the nutrients where we're currently at. And that's what I was saying is that it's hard to know if someone just adds a little bit of one of these PGRs to even a regular nutrient line, and in certain nutrient lines I've seen, to me it's arguable that they definitely are using some kind of PGR because it makes,

2:50:42SpeakerGuys, PGRs are sold separately. If you go look up PGRs, you'll see the companies sell it separately and basically are telling you you'll save thousands on your nutrients and you'll get more productive because it's going to give you this boost. People are actually using it as a supplement. It's not just Companies that are putting it in to give them an advantage on the marketplace. People that are like, hey, fucking A, let me get some of that shit.

2:51:06SpeakerI don't care. I want bigger buds. And that's sadly what's happening.

2:51:11Archive SeedsSome people just label just the algae extract and that's it.

2:51:16SpeakerThis labeling, I agree with you, is huge. People don't even know that they're using this shit. That was the point of the article I posted too. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

2:51:29BubblemanThe prize, to say the least. It's amazing how much of this information isn't passed on and shared.

2:51:36SpeakerWell, you know, with that article from 2012, and me and Rob have been having conversations about it, but how the fuck do you, like, get it out to people and sit down and be like, oh, hey, here's a massive concern. Now that we're taking these plants and we're making extracts that are really concentrated or whatever the fuck is in the plant, we're going to have to deal with what we're putting in the plant.

2:51:54SpeakerAnd, you know, it's not like, you know... You know, we're like Debbie Bad News or something. We're getting out there Debbie Downer. We're like, you know, hey everybody, make this great new trip you found. It's going to kill you.

2:52:07BubblemanIt's going to be bad. Just get rid of the things that are going to kill us. We're the consumers. We're the ones buying these products. And if we can open our eyes to the fact that, hey, we like your product, but you've got to get rid of this. Or, hey, you know what, your product's got to go completely. We're the consumers. And because we're beyond just consumers, we're also like, Patience, it makes it a little more serious.

2:52:34Archive SeedsI mean, if there's a bridge that you know is about to fail, are you going to let people continue to cross it, or are you going to tell them to stop and fix it? I think that's what telling people to not use things like dominozide and paclobutazole, which is also another... We're not very good, you know, fungicide chemicals, so.

2:52:55SpeakerRight, but don't kid yourself. People are going to listen to us talk about this right now and go the opposite. They're going to be like, oh, Jesus, I didn't even know about plant growth regulators. I didn't even know I could get an advantage. I didn't even know I could put this in.

2:53:05Archive SeedsI think almost everyone knows about phospholode. I mean, if you know OG growers in L.A., like, that shit, they use it like water, you know. I mean, I lived there for two years and I saw a lot of OG and I saw a lot of white haired possible OG.

2:53:26SpeakerYeah, look, you know, when I first got OG Kush in the 90s and such, the people growing it were trying to grow it pretty clean. I mean, you know, when You know, there's a lot of people that once the clones got released after I got out of prison and such, that a lot of people started growing it in L.A. I was, you know, but, you know, what they did was a little out of, you know, but a lot of the, a lot of this technology started hitting in the 20th century where it wasn't available so much in the 90s.

2:53:52Archive SeedsI mean, we're going to be posting about hospital results on OG in 2001 on overgrown cannabis world. I mean, it was pretty well known. Even just people looking on the internet, you want to get two pounds of light with OG. But it ruins trichome production. You know, there's a lot of negatives to it that make it pointless, you know. It's better to be a better grower than it is to use that stuff and just get shitty quality, basically.

2:54:21BubblemanYeah, that's for sure. That's for sure.

2:54:27Etienne FontanWell, and soon you'll be tested and there is no way you can Talk your way out of it.

2:54:33Archive SeedsRight. But how do you blame someone when they buy a nutrient that doesn't tell you what's in it?

2:54:41Etienne FontanI think it goes back to the real thing. I used to have a cycling team. And we had a problem with, okay, the U.S. Cycling Association decided to authorize this particular substance. So got from my team. Everybody used it. Turns out Go ahead and somebody popped on another team, popped positive using this same stuff, and you got blamed as the individual because you needed to know what you put into your body.

2:55:14Etienne FontanSo I'm afraid it's going to end up being that. The farmer is going to be blamed, but it also shows the education that we have to do, that the state has to do, and because even though there's been no regulation, there's been nobody saying You should be growing with these nutrients. You have to avoid these. Avoid growth hormone. Avoid these sort of things. Avoid these types of additives.

2:55:38Etienne FontanNo one's saying that except we at the dispensaries when we're actually dealing with it, we ask those questions of the farmers because we need to know that information. Now science tells us also it backs up that or tells them that they're lying. So there's a great deal of education that needs to go. I think this is a very worthy discussion that needs to continue and go Further, because many growers don't know what's available or we will also see people rise with products available due to the absence of products currently.

2:56:14Archive SeedsYeah, as another source of information, the forums do talk about a lot of these chemicals. It's one of the better sources for information. You've got to weed through a lot of crap, but there are a few people that really do try and Spread good information on some of the forums out there. Yeah, but where is it widely available to every grower? And that's what it needs. Right, exactly.

2:56:35Etienne FontanIt should be available in a pamphlet in the store. You shouldn't have to search through something to get to your knowledge. It should be access and information. Hopefully the state of California will create You know, safety status, now that it's engaged the agricultural department, it's engaged all these entities that now they have to play with us. They can't just say, oh no, save us. So the good thing about this is it's actually going to force dialogue.

2:56:59Etienne FontanAnd I think that is going to be exponential to starting that discussion and then moving it forward because we have to have a place to start. We're in the black. We're in the dark, okay, except for what's available currently on the market. And we know, as Todd's pointed out and many others have pointed out, that these products currently are made for other products, not specifically for this.

2:57:20Etienne FontanSo hopefully it'll open up research further into cannabis-specific products. I know they've been over, like, Canada over in Europe and stuff like that, and it's starting to be available here, but hopefully it will open up so that we can get cannabis-specific As well as now opening up to organic standards. We know what the organic standards are, and they will have to be followed and have to pass that certification.

2:57:45Etienne FontanAnd the organic certification is actually going to show up and test your soil, and there's no way you can talk your way out of it. So there's going to have to be self-education, community education, as well as industry education, in my opinion.

2:58:02BubblemanFuck, I'm having a hell of a time trying to get figured out. Okay, so we're getting told that Vapor Central was being raided. I don't believe Vapor Central is being raided in Toronto right now. I believe Vapor Central is streaming a raid that is happening right now in Toronto at a place called Melon Heads. So I just wanted to get that out. It's funny how people can share bad information so fast just by being unable to articulate what they're trying to share with people.

2:58:32Etienne FontanIs that RCMP or is it local?

2:58:36BubblemanThere's a stream and I would have to open it up and look into it. It looked like local police. Let me just pop it open on my telephono here.

2:58:46Archive SeedsIs that dispensary or like a smoking club?

2:58:49BubblemanIt's just a, no, now sorry, Melon Heads, I'm not sure if it's a dispensary and a vapor club, but it's not vapor central is all I'm saying, so. I think it might be some type of a dispensary. I don't know. We'll get more word from it as people learn how to share proper information. Because I hate to tell people the wrong thing. It started with Melonheads is getting raided.

2:59:12BubblemanAnd then that turned into Vapor Central is getting raided. And because Vapor Central was streaming the raid, I think that's where the confusion occurred. Either way... Good to know that Vapor... Yeah, someone was saying that Vapor Central was raided, bud. That's why we're saying it. But they were not raided. They were just streaming the raid. Just to get that information out to everyone. We'll give you an update on that as we figure out more.

2:59:38BubblemanHate to hear about that, really. Hate to fucking hear about the federal government or even the city of Toronto deciding to crack down. Hopefully it was all a misunderstanding. I'm going to take a giant rip of some Terp Nation, some Stable Rosin. Who's ready? Is that what we're doing, Tony?

3:00:08Etienne FontanI'm doing some Ingrid Rosin. I'm going to do a little dab from the slab.

3:00:23SpeakerI don't fuck with those finger dabs. I see people doing it all the time and I'm like, well, at least you got the oil on your finger where you're going to burn it eventually so it'll self-heal real fast.

3:00:36BubblemanThat's just negative, Horatio.

3:00:40SpeakerFor some reason, this week, I've knocked my bong off, my rig off my desk, and I always catch it by the nail. It seems to be the best place. The brain says, grab that thing that's falling. And every time, I'm like, I end up having to wipe the dab I was going to take right on the wound, and I don't get to take the dab.

3:01:03BubblemanWell, that was still a decent dab. Finger dab. Toronto Police raided Melonheads because they were openly selling to anyone. Well, shit. And we're not allowed to do that, I guess, eh? Not everyone should be allowed to have cannabis. Is that what the RCMP is trying to tell us?

3:01:22SpeakerWhat they're trying to say is you need to go to Vancouver where basically we were supposed to be taking in people with some type of medical recommendation, but they've gone full rec. And you kind of have to pay 30 grand in Vancouver to go full rec. Right.

3:01:39BubblemanIs that rec though in Vancouver, 30 grand? Or is that just profitable medical?

3:01:43SpeakerThey pretty much, I even, I believe I asked, I've asked that a couple of times and everyone keeps, I believe it was Jamie I asked, or Hillary Black, they keep saying, no, there's no rules about intake anymore unless you're a compassion club. So I'm like, so for 30 grand you can go wreck? And they're like, Vancouver's not really saying there's no rules on intaking patients.

3:02:06BubblemanWell, I'll tell you, they sure made a major statement which was quickly, you know, rebuttaled by the Canadian government, Health Canada, just saying, like, no, you cannot do that. Do not regulate dispensaries. I sure hope they do. It seems like our mayor is ready to fight, but we'll see what happens.

3:02:29BubblemanWe'll see what happens. Hey, Jeff, you taking off, buddy?

3:02:35SpeakerYeah, I'm going to go hang out with the family here for a little bit, and I'll see you all next week for Big Year One.

3:02:42BubblemanHell yeah, dude. It's going to be a good one. Maybe we'll try to get a Trello going with Todd and get some special guests happening for our one year. Maybe I'll invite all the random no-named people who were in the first one and just do that panel again. Can you imagine? All these random people.

3:02:58NickHey, what's up?

3:03:00SpeakerYes. We may be better off with Trello.

3:03:06BubblemanTrello. We will Trello. I wish more people were involved in Trello. I sent invites out, but people are busy. I understand.

3:03:14SpeakerI'll get on that.

3:03:18SpeakerWell, it has been a nice conversation. Every day, every time we sit down and talk, I honestly learn stuff every week, which is really wet.

3:03:27BubblemanThree hours of solid killer information, like three hours straight of just... It was a good three hours, you know. I think people are very happy with what they heard. And it gets us further down the road to, it seems like eventually we're leading ourselves to this point where we're like, who's going to do all these things that we're talking about? Do we have to start some organization that's like some non-for-profit, some testing facility, some whatever?

3:03:55BubblemanAll the things that we're talking about need to happen. And I just wonder if the people listening are going to be the ones to make it happen or we are.

3:04:08Etienne FontanBoth. You know, we're doing what we can, but these kids are watching us and listening to us and young, old, et cetera, wandering directions, seeing where opportunities are and, you know, going into plant science and learning about microbiology because they see that, oh, shit, it's really applicable in the cannabis world. It's Not just a bunch of stuffy scientists. There's a shitload of, we've only isolated a handful of compounds.

3:04:36Etienne FontanWe have so much research. So I hope there's so many of you out there that are actually looking at becoming doctors and researchers and stepping into that realm because there's a future there. There's a bright future there with the regulation Here in California, and as you'll see, the ripples will go up to the other states, etc. There's going to be a need for biological scientists and soil scientists.

3:05:04Etienne FontanThese are key places that we need the future to plug in. There's advances in technologies and LEDs now that are starting to surpass all types of other types of ancient lighting that we used to use in the past. So we're going to see a lot of advances in technology especially with the regulation of this industry. Now these companies, now we can go to the Philips company. Now we can go to these companies and say, okay, we're a regulated industry.

3:05:36Etienne FontanWe need specific You know, products, this is what we need. I mean, if Sensi can begin to do it over there, then why can't we be doing it here for a friendly regular? So, I mean, again, it's this step-by-step. It's going to be coming across us. We're not going to immediately be there, but you, you out there, please pick up the torch.

3:05:57BubblemanSorry, I had to mute Todd there. You were coming in on the Echo style large there.

3:06:04Etienne FontanNo, it's just, you know, they're out there. You're out there right now wondering what to do. So, you know, if you're in college or have access to get yourself a knowledge base or an apprenticeship somewhere, you know, key, component, do it, learn.

3:06:18BubblemanIt totally makes me want to go back to university. I'd love to take, like, plant sciences. I got to talk a little bit with a plant scientist at Tilray, and she knew her shit, man. You definitely don't get, like, a degree in plant sciences without knowing your shit.

3:06:42BubblemanI wonder how many years that takes to get your, like, master's in plant sciences.

3:06:50SpeakerThat was a four-year degree in plant science.

3:06:54BubblemanDude, not too bad. I could do that. Probably rock that off.

3:07:01SpeakerAre there any plant scientists that did any doctoral work or like their thesis with cannabis versus another plant? There must be some essays where you have to pick a plant and rip it apart to shreds. Are there any people that came out, like that would start to be the shit where it's like I got my masters by writing a thesis on what?

3:07:19Etienne FontanI know Etienne de Maillet, which is the other Etienne in the cannabis world, I mean he did it with him. And so, I mean I know people doing it specifically. There has to be. Well, now, hopefully, this will open up access because with the regulation, hopefully, maybe the UC system or the Cal system will allow people to get their doctorates so that people don't have to go to Leiden and other places to actually study or get their doctorates so they can actually get it domestically.

3:07:50BubblemanDomestically.

3:07:55BubblemanGive a shout out.

3:07:56SpeakerWell, y'all have a good day. I'm going to jump now and go do Sunday stuff.

3:08:01BubblemanDo Sunday stuff. All right, Todd. Well, have a good one, buddy. I was just going to give a shout out to Cole Lewis Gerton. He was a relative of mine. I don't know if you guys can see him there. He's on the card there. It would have been his 25th birthday today. Unfortunately, he succumbed to cancer 1990 to 2015. So my family all gathered today and celebrated his life.

3:08:28BubblemanIt's too bad we weren't able to... He did use cannabis. He just was unable to get it to work for him. He was taken out by it. So I'm going to have a bong rip for him.

3:08:41Etienne FontanDeepest condolences, Mo Fryer.

3:08:44SpeakerYes.

3:08:45TonyYes.

3:08:46SpeakerWe all should treat life so fragilely because either way we can eat as healthy as we want, but someday our time is always limited and we have to appreciate every moment we get.

3:08:57BubblemanYeah, you know, it's like, what's his name? Michael Rich used to always tell me, you know, like, I believe that you're born with a certain amount of energy, and that energy leads you as it dissipates to your death. And I always thought that was kind of like a powerful sort of perspective. It wasn't necessarily mine, but I really appreciated it from his perspective. I was like, damn, dude, like, it's fucking heavy.

3:09:21BubblemanHe's like, yeah, it is, man. You know? We each get this little machine. Call it what you will, it drives us. It seems to drive us one way right to our death.

3:09:34Etienne FontanIs that the same Michael Rich who did the mills over in China?

3:09:39BubblemanYeah, it was Michael who just passed away recently.

3:09:42Etienne FontanDeepest condolences there too. Great man. His daughter worked for me for a number of years at Brickley Patients Group.

3:09:54Etienne FontanYeah.

3:09:55BubblemanYeah. He was a very unique individual.

3:10:03Etienne FontanThat's a good way of putting it. He was a very unique individual. That's got countless stories, Michael.

3:10:11SpeakerMark just brought up, Scaldone just brought up an interesting point in the chat to answer my question. He brought up a doctor who basically... Thank you so much for joining us.

3:10:49Etienne FontanGreat man.

3:10:52Etienne FontanAwesome.

3:10:54BubblemanThat's Dr. Arno Hazekamp, basically Hayes Kamp, K-A-M-P is his last name, and you can Google him and get a whole bunch of interesting information about when he was born and where he's from and where he studied and how long he did what for and different companies that he's worked with. It's definitely an interesting read, so maybe post that in the Hash Church group as well if you don't mind, Mark.

3:11:22BubblemanSure, no problem.

3:11:26BubblemanYou know, do I have a mental illness that whenever one of you talk, I click on the screen right away, so make sure that it's your screen that's recording. But when I talk, I forget, and I don't click on the screen, and it's like Horatio just taking like vape rips of like whatever that shit is. And I'm like, fuck, what do I, why do I not click on my own screen?

3:11:51SpeakerI don't watch the video feed, but I hope it's not just people being like, like there's 700 people just watching some reaction where someone's like, what? And you're supposed to be a small square when you're doing that.

3:12:04BubblemanI know. No, I try my best, dude. It is kind of a weird thing that I wish I didn't have to do. It takes away a little bit of part of my brain, away from, you know, often I'm waiting for people to talk so I can get my, say what I want to say and whatnot, and while I'm clicking on each person, I tend to lose track sometimes and not get to say what I want to say, but I'll figure it out one day.

3:12:29BubblemanIt's all these wonderful dabs, dabs and running hash church. These are my first world problems. I'm not complaining.

3:12:39BubblemanTony, you've been quiet. Are you just fucking taffied right out? Yeah, you taffied out, man. What's up?

3:12:49TonyIs he muted? I'm working on trying to get some labeling done for this taffy stuff because it was a last minute miracle. So I was expecting more of a dry texture, but the turps... Made sweet love. Sweet love to the rest.

3:13:07SpeakerNever expect anything to come out dry with the fucking turps. I decided like, oh, I'm in a fucking rush. I got to go. I'll just put the turps on one side of the parchment and close it. No, I've got a better idea. I'll just go squish it cold in the t-shirt press. And I didn't pay attention and I squished it and it flew out like it never even touched the oil.

3:13:28SpeakerIt just went outside then went and coated everything and I'm like, I'll just bring it. Everyone will wear it tonight. And that's what happened. People were like, what the fuck is this all over my hands? I'm like, dude, it's the first batch of Turp Cologne. Just live with it. Touch the parchment and love it.

3:13:46TonyYeah. No, it's like there's, what happens is, you know, having a consistent base of bubble and having consistency through the whole thing. I noticed by just having the pure terps in the process, the colorations and the oils and the different types of taffy texture that I created is solely terpene based. So there's a lot of interesting things that I'm just picking up and noticing in this next new process.

3:14:17Etienne FontanSo, people want to... Show us the taffy again.

3:14:21TonyI'll show you the taffy. Hold on. Hold on.

3:14:27SpeakerIs this where you bring... I'm really going to leave now. You guys have a great day. Don't do it.

3:14:33Archive SeedsWe're going to talk more cool stuff. I know. That's why I sit here listening.

3:14:37SpeakerFucking... Hilarious, but okay, I'm really gonna, I'm really gonna leave. So y'all have a great day.

3:14:43BubblemanI see the meme already. It's your face, and it's like when you're trying to get the fuck out of Hash Church, and they keep bringing up cool shit. There's the meme. Alright, whoever's doing it, get it done.

3:14:56Etienne FontanLadies and gentlemen, start your meme generators.

3:14:59SpeakerNo, don't ever. That went so bad for Cosby. Oh my god.

3:15:05BubblemanWell, you know what? Wasn't he like raping women though?

3:15:09SpeakerNo, for real. You know, and you know what, I want to actually bring up something that's somewhat, you know, I have a cyber stalker, and I've had one for a long time. I wouldn't let a person move into this house five years ago that asked me to get them fucking meth. At the time, I was on probation, trying to get off probation, and the last thing I needed was, and honestly, even if I wasn't, you're basically going to be asked to leave at that point in my life anyway.

3:15:32SpeakerSo, ever since then, I've had a fucking cyber stalker, and, you know, I'm sorry for the people that are watching and stuff, it's been obnoxious. And she even posted shit, her name's Amy Griffin, went to court about it and everything, and Google won't even take down the pages. I'm going to have to hire a lawyer to go after them because, you know, somehow they're okay with condoning cyber harassment, which is fucking obnoxious.

3:15:55SpeakerUnbelievable. So, I'm sorry everybody, but it's reality. And I think the more you become an activist and a public person, and you have a reputation, the easier it is for people to try to attack it. Right. Did anybody see that? Tony's holding up an oil. Oh God, now it's my face. But Todd's face was reflecting perfectly in it. That was my face. I see Jesus in the oil.

3:16:19BubblemanWhere am I? I want to be in there.

3:16:22SpeakerThat is fucking hilarious. That's awesome!

3:16:31BubblemanJesus Christ.

3:16:34TonySo, alright, this is retarded. That's all I'm going to say. How do you package this? You know, this is, let me just show you.

3:16:49TonyHold on.

3:16:50Etienne FontanYou package it very carefully.

3:16:56SpeakerYou learn one, Pad 1. There's ways, but you're going to be wearing a jacket when you do it.

3:17:03TonyNo, check this out. It's like...

3:17:10TonyIt's clear taffy.

3:17:12SpeakerYeah, you're going to melt it out onto a parchment, then drop the temps to at least like 52F. No, you know what?

3:17:19TonyIt comes right off the glass in a clear gel. Can you tell us what terps those are? Yeah, this is the Girl Scout cookies.

3:17:30BubblemanThat's insane.

3:17:34BubblemanYeah.

3:17:39TonyYeah, so they were going to go on these nice little glass vials because I thought it was going to be a different... This is just a new tech that I was trying to develop because I was asking people online, should I go more drier butter, more wet shatter, and then I was like, fuck it. I just, there was a lot of 4 a.m. terp sessions and then I got like way deeper and then now it's this.

3:18:07Etienne FontanDo you need to heat the bottle to get that in there?

3:18:11TonyNo, I'm going to put it on the parchment because it's super stable in parchment. You can just touch it and it comes right off, no problems. So you'll get the most, you'll get all your medicine off of it that way. But I thought it was going to, I just thought it was going to be more.

3:18:29SpeakerLike crumble?

3:18:33SpeakerLike as if you smashed up honeycomb? Because that goes in those vials really easily.

3:18:38TonyI thought it was going to be drier, but I basically, I tried a ratio of terpenes that was excessive. And I wanted to make sure that anyone that got this was like that's exactly what that plant tastes like. You know? So there would be zero customer complaints.

3:19:02SpeakerYou got to watch out. There's this new complaint that happens called Terp Burned. What are you vaping at, Tony? Well...

3:19:36TonyThis on the silicon carbide is at 600, and it just turns to a straight pool of oil.

3:19:48TonyJust that little, that little tiny bit that was on there that I was going to clean off, still going.

3:19:59SpeakerYou've got some comments from the chat that people will help you package it into their lungs.

3:20:08Etienne FontanIn a series of small fires.

3:20:09TonyI need to go into a clean state.

3:20:17TonyShowers and change. I got to take this in and then I got to get to work, I guess.

3:20:27BubblemanWell, now that you've smoked yourself into a damn near coma.

3:20:34TonyYou got to try everything, you know. I do know.

3:20:38Etienne FontanOne must bioassay. It's essential.

3:20:43TonyMost people would have to take four days to try it. I just was able to try all five. I had Girl Scout Cookies, Blue Dream, Irene, Jack Frost, and G4. They're all just ridiculous.

3:21:07BubblemanYeah. Brett Maverick's saying the problem with that is we could all set our PIDs to 600 and all of us would have a different temperature on our nail head.

3:21:16TonyYeah, I have a flat coil with a silicone carbide.

3:21:21SpeakerWell, I mean, you'd hit it with an IR gun. That's the only way to give out a number. Like, get your nail at the IR gun to this temp. Because, yeah, setting it on the PID is useless.

3:21:34Etienne FontanHey, somebody hit me up on the side asking about California, if Chalice and High Times and all those are going to be able to continue given the new laws. And again, not sure, they're not correctly addressed, but I would figure the vendors there will have to be state licensed because they don't do pop-up licenses and stuff like that. So, thank you.

3:22:04BubblemanThe questions never stop. There's a fast flow of conversation going on in the chat room. 627 people hanging out, watching Hash Church today. I think last week's episode is almost up to 12,000, so definitely thanks to all of you, the audience, who for whatever reason appreciates this as much as we do. We appreciate that. Oh, there we go. Now I'm I forgot to push on my own.

3:22:33BubblemanI never push on my own box.

3:22:38SpeakerBon appetit.

3:22:42SpeakerYou know, now that I'm still sitting here still and listening to all you guys talk, I just want to say thank you to everybody. I got so much feedback after Ben was on, and I think we all have such admiration for people like him, especially him, in his efforts, and it was just nice. So many people wrote me, and I didn't even have time to write everybody back.

3:23:02SpeakerTraveling and shit, but...

3:23:09BubblemanIt was great to have Ben on. Nice and willing to share his stories, and... Yeah, it's just very unique, really, when you think about it.

3:23:23SpeakerFantastic. I had no idea he was going to Afghanistan in 1970, the year I was fucking born. He was already scouting for seeds down there. I mean, it's, you know, I knew he had a little bit of a lead on us, you know. That's a pretty huge lead for me, at least. Long before I was born, he was already smoking weed and looking for pot to grow in the countries where it grew best.

3:23:46SpeakerSo, go then.

3:23:49Etienne FontanOld Ed was before him, though, just before. In the 60s.

3:23:54SpeakerEd Holloway, well, you know, Ben was actually, you know, I mean, to be in Afghanistan in 1970 means that probably in 1969 you're smoking weed and thinking about going to Afghanistan, you know what I mean? So, you know, there were a lot of innovators in the 60s at the time. Old Ed Holloway is who you mean. He was the guy that taught, we're not burning how to grow sensimelia or seedless cannabis in Holland.

3:24:17SpeakerHuge little thing he did for us.

3:24:18BubblemanI still always get burned with that. To the skunk man though, I'll tell you, he also was in Afghanistan, I believe in 1970, and collected seeds. The unique thing about him is he's kind of, I put a few of these people on this sort of, in this group where they're just like dream heads. They want to smoke the best of the best of the best, concentrated into the best.

3:24:43BubblemanI mean, skunk man Sam, I met him, his hash was so much nicer than anyone's hash I've ever had. Smoked before, it was kind of almost unbelievable. I thought, how could this be true? And it's like when you have people that are so passionate about the flavors and the tastes and the potency, it's almost like they have savant-like capabilities to pull out these special phenols and to breed plants into these incredible things that only the most Ardent cannabis user, like the person who respects the resin to the highest grade.

3:25:23BubblemanIt always seemed to be those guys that had the best shit in their stash that also coincidentally had incredible genetics that they collected over the years.

3:25:35SpeakerI was going to say, one of the things I experience is not much cannabis. I really experience a strong medicine. And I guess those types of, the connoisseur ends up being the pharmacist because I'm like, I keep thinking, oh man, I still want roadkill skunk and all of those extreme terpene profiles. So, I mean, it sounds like to the most severe illnesses, you will always find the most extreme genetics.

3:26:06BubblemanRight. It does seem to coincide. It seems to be the people that are like, It seems to be that the stuff that the recreational user wants, the best of the best, it's like, oh, that's the super dank. It just happens to be that stuff seems to be the most powerful medicine in a variety of ways.

3:26:28SpeakerIt's what the conflict with hoarding and prohibition ends up being. The biggest crux is we have the best medicine, but it also serves a recreational purpose that drives us to hoard medicine from each other.

3:26:42BubblemanYeah, it's a prohibition-based mindset, and I'm sure when prohibition was set up, they were like, you know what, this is going to be great, because they're going to do themselves in by growing strains that are like, how fast and how much can I get? You know, focusing on the wrong things like hoarding and like trying to grow. I mean, we did a good job in the end because amazing things were preserved.

3:27:06BubblemanPeople did wonderful jobs. But a lot of us are guilty for that hoarding over the years and it just seems like no real good could come of that.

3:27:17SpeakerNo, come on, though, for a minute. When you're saying hoarding, you know, we weren't in a position to be able to freely trade without severe consequences. I once gave clones to a guy that was a contributor to the emperor, and he ended up fucking cooperating against me because I gave him cuttings. I mean, it linked me to distribution when I only tried to do somebody a solid act because his fucking room was full of spider mites.

3:27:37SpeakerHe lived in the high desert, and fuck, he lived among these little spider mites as a natural plant. It's around him. So his garden was fucked, and I felt bad for him, and I gave him condoms, and it fucked me. And you know, that's what a lot of people face. If you handed condoms to somebody, suddenly you were linked to their fucking grow, and you could do time if they got busted, because they'll roll on your ass.

3:27:58SpeakerAnd you know, we weren't in a position, that's what the freedom we fought for, and if we weren't, I mean, when I met you at Posse, That was one of the first places I experienced freedom or not fearing the repercussions of talking about my experience to other people and sharing the dialogue and experiences that they had with me. Because up to that point in America, man, I came up with a little saying when I was like fucking 14 and it was, if you're going to tell anyone, you might as well tell everyone.

3:28:27SpeakerBecause if you tell anyone, you are pretty much telling everyone. To me, it was that you had to keep your mouth shut about your grower. You'd fucking go down. Some jealous asshole would tell on you.

3:28:38BubblemanIn Winnipeg, we said that a fish can be kept from getting caught if he just keeps his mouth shut.

3:28:51SpeakerIt's, I mean, Todd, your point is very good. It's just like how they make up these new logs. Well, you can all have weed, but if you share it, ooh, you might as well be Al Capone again. And it's that same construct of blocking sharing of an access that seems to keep people back.

3:29:10BubblemanYeah, invisible handcuffs. The invisible handcuffs that is like... And then, you know, it is linked to the fear, but then when you link to the fear, you're almost always also linked to that sort of profits of like, well, you know, and coincidentally, maybe I'll do better if no one else has this strain and I'm just the only one that has it. It would be nice if everyone had to come to me for it.

3:29:31BubblemanAnd that's like a... Thank you for watching.

3:29:52BubblemanI think that information kept us from learning what we know today. It kept us from learning what we know today. Thank God we pushed through it. We are a tenacious fucking lot of people. But it really did slow down our knowledge of learning.

3:30:11SpeakerI don't want to disagree completely, but the people that had unique plants that didn't want to give them to every Joe asshole that wanted to commercially produce their shit and go slut it out. For the record, man, I got to hang out and smoke hash two mornings while I was in Europe with Sam the Stunk Man. He is responsible for so much. All the beautiful labels that I put on my Instagram of old cannabis were from his collection because we get to go high and you literally have fun fucking going through all his old stuff.

3:30:40SpeakerIt's epic. And, you know, the contributions people have made have been huge. But when, you know, you look at the work that they did to create different things that we use every day, people would come up behind them and just want to capitalize on it. In a way, it was like if you wrote the Beatles song, Love Me Do, you wouldn't want somebody coming up and saying, great song, Paul.

3:30:59SpeakerI'm going to grab that, just walk away, and start cashing in on your creativity. And that's what's happened. And, you know, cannabis has been available to everybody, so it hasn't slowed us down. It's just been a reality of prohibition that if I share the good shit I made with you, it might mean that I get caught up in your bullshit for whatever reason. And that's fucked up.

3:31:17BubblemanI guess I'm talking in a more general way out of respect for those people that bred those plants that sharing without profiting is what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the percentage of people that have worked hard like Skunk Man Sam. I'm talking about the people who have access to these strains already. It's like Can you not share it with someone that's right over there? Like for years, many people shared under that guys, but they weren't Skunk Man Sam.

3:31:46BubblemanNone of them were. It was like, I understand it from his perspective and a handful of others, absolutely, but at the same time, if it's not to profit, it's like the Grateful Dead letting you tape their show. It's like you paid for it. You can have it. Just don't go sell it on the black market for money.

3:32:02SpeakerAnd there was... Well, two sides of that, though. Two sides of that. Two sides of that. Because if you look at it in a way that, okay, he had this great collection and a great eye for breeding and he did all this wonderful stuff botanically, he was restricted because he couldn't share it with everybody for pennies. Like, because he would have been able to get it out to everybody if he wasn't an unfettered Thank you for watching.

3:32:39SpeakerWe would have made greater advancements a long time ago, but we didn't have that because he had to hide in Holland. Not hide, but he had to go to a neutral country that didn't look at growing flowers as being a militantly criminal act that would get you locked up for longer than potentially murder. You know, so think of those restrictions when we're talking about this and it's astounding that cannabis has been able to make the huge advancements it's made with all of the oppression that's come down upon it.

3:33:09SpeakerAnd one of the reasons I've been so adamant about basically exposing its goodness is because it needs us to do that because I feel obligated for how much it's helped me through my life. And you know, Given a little back seems appropriate.

3:33:23BubblemanWell then let's go back even further to indigenous tribes of people who probably held some of these land race strains in their collections before these breeders came along, took them for themselves to work with, and then profit off of and not allow anyone else to take their hard work Where did they get those strains in the first place, and did they pay for them? Are they respecting the lineage of those genetics and where they came from?

3:33:48BubblemanOr are they completely ignoring it and taking it for themselves? Because, I mean, if you're going to use that mentality, you've got to go back even further, and then you realize, wow, well, I guess they maybe probably haven't done that either. You know, that's why I like the idea of the sharing. If we weren't sharing, okay, why are they allowed to take the genetics, right? And work with them, and then create something that no one else is allowed to share.

3:34:13BubblemanWait a minute, let's put that in context.

3:34:16SpeakerLet's put this all in context, because truthfully, the 20th century cannabis industry only happened because of a few people that in the 40s and 50s, it really, as Ed Holloway told me, it was when his kids came back from Vietnam with some Vietnam and Thai products, And stuff like that. And he first tried it in the early 60s. It caused him to have an interest in going to these countries and literally smuggling out seeds so that he could bring them and test them and play with them.

3:34:44SpeakerAnd when you look at the complexity of our modern-day hybrids, they're from countries all over the world. And I mean, Skunk was a three-way, you know. When they went and they found these seeds, there was no, you know, I'm going to make a million billion dollars. It was, hey, let's bring these back and see what we can do. And one of the things that Arian and Franco will fucking flatly say is that as they scoured the earth for new strains, you bring a lot of them home, they're really not exciting.

3:35:10SpeakerThere's a lot of work that needs to be done with them. And it really goes to say how much actual breeding and selection went into the hills of California and then into the greenhouses of Amsterdam and now all over the world.

3:35:22BubblemanAll I'm saying is none of it could have happened without those land race strains.

3:35:30SpeakerWell, right, and without everything on the planet, we wouldn't have cell phones and this cool technology, but the land races were there.

3:35:38BubblemanI'm giving the credit to cannabis as always. I love what everyone's done for it and how we're pushing it, but we are big stewards helping it along. I don't think any of us own it. As much as we want... I said that in the union.

3:35:51SpeakerI said I found it obnoxious that people want to take credit for varieties that were cultivated for drug use in places like India for literally thousands of years. And that's what we're benefiting from completely. And, you know, I see that too. You know, but I see both sides of it because I see the efforts that went into what we have as modern day strains because... You know, look, Mel Frank's a good friend of mine, as you all know, and he's 72 years old now, and I get to talk to him about the varieties that he collected in the 70s, and it's utterly fascinating, you know, to the progression of how these countries mixed together became the strains we know today.

3:36:30SpeakerAnd I give credit in a way to Credit Dew, because they operated these breeders and these people that were selecting cannabis that we now appreciate in really hard conditions, where they were having to hide, And literally got locked up when they were caught for growing flowers. And we've made a, you know, we're going to grow a lot more now that we have this open communication and that people are actually more brave and can share these genetics more freely without the fear of, you know, prison or losing their life.

3:37:01SpeakerAnd this is where, this is what it's all about to me. I mean, it's that liberty that we all really lust for.

3:37:07BubblemanWell, I just pray that we don't. You know, try to patent and control and trademark, you know, genetics and genome structures and, like, plants. I just hope that it always...

3:37:21SpeakerI just hope I can... I never have to feel bad about sharing a strain with someone.

3:37:26BubblemanYou know? I just... I really do. I think that sharing strains is real important. And, you know, you'd lose your strains if it wasn't for sharing sometimes. And it's... It's like that prohibition, the invisible handcuff thing again, where it just makes you feel like, oh yeah, it's in my best interest just not to share this. But then you don't think of things like, what if you shared it?

3:37:50BubblemanPeople are thinking this, oh, that guy's going to start a seed company, he's going to jack me, he's going to ruin the genetics. These are all the standards that everyone goes through.

3:37:58SpeakerAnd I would argue that Phylos is going to do it.

3:38:01BubblemanLet me finish. Basically, I lost my train of thought.

3:38:08SpeakerGo ahead, Todd. I'm sorry. I said Philo's is going to basically prove that what you're saying is right, and we have a small group of genetics. There's 12 notes in music, and I believe there's not that many tones in cannabis, if you will, and we're trying to hold on to something that we're all really sharing a large percentage of the same genetic of, and it's stupid to hoard, and I agree with you completely.

3:38:31SpeakerI just see both sides of how it evolved over the time I've been a grower. But now with Philo's, what you're saying is I think it's going to prove that it's silly because we're all sharing the same 12 notes mixed together in various combinations. It's not that far apart.

3:38:48BubblemanWhat I noticed is, for example, I can use hash as an example. When I started showing people how to make hash, now by no means did I invent any type of hash making. Helped popularize, yes. Invented, nothing. Just a guy that knows some things. Uh, has learned things from his mentors and has, uh, taken that information and, and processed it into a working model. But I don't ever claim to, um, own any process, but I'll tell you, 20 plus, almost 20 years ago when I started doing this, very, very, very few people were doing it.

3:39:21BubblemanI mean, it was a handful of people who had melty hash. Literally, when I say a handful, I mean a handful of people. There was literally maybe one person Every five different places that I went to, I might find one person. And I'm talking like going to a different country, going to a different province, a different, you know, maybe one person. And then it started growing slowly but surely.

3:39:43BubblemanAnd it was like, I wasn't the first, you know. Rob had the book Hashish come out in 1998, I think it was published. I started my company in 99. The information was there. But believe it or not, a lot of people weren't buying the book. It wasn't really standard information. I've been telling people about that book since 1998. And it's an incredible book and all the information is right there.

3:40:08BubblemanBut how really that information got popularized was me going online on the internet with a digital camera and taking pictures of resin up close. And sharing it on a site called Overgrow. And before that, nobody was doing that. It did not exist on any of the cannabis culture, Cannabis.com, Cannabis World, which came later. And just sharing the screen sizes, for instance, on the bags, there was no company that did that.

3:40:32BubblemanThe isolator bags were two separate bags that came with no screen numbers. This wasn't information that companies really wanted the customer to know. It was kind of like, if I can hold that information back, it's in my best interest because they Won't know the screen size, and then they won't know what size to go by. And so I was the first one to share in a product all the screen sizes.

3:40:54BubblemanNow that information existed already, once again, in Hashish, but people weren't reading it. And that was a whole part of just constantly giving that information away so people could go make their own screen bags. Of course, if you can't buy mine, why would I want to keep you from making your own? That's fucking crazy. And it was just my mentality from the whole, through this business of even showing people how to properly make dry sift and clean at 99%.

3:41:23BubblemanNo one was doing that. You know, Skunk Man Sam has his method and he's been doing it the longest. But before I learned anything about his method, I came up with my own carding methods and like learning about this a little bit of the, you know, through D420K and Mies and myself. We literally... You know, developed that little DVD parchment static trick. And that was literally me seeing D420K use a card, which I told him, yeah, you can use plastic cards and sometimes they'll pick up a little bit of heads on one side and a little bit of, you know, contaminant on the other.

3:42:01BubblemanAnd he started using his iTunes card and he was like, oh dude, I'm noticing it and I'm using all sorts of different cards and Me saw a D420K video and he wrapped a card in parchment and he said, it works even better with a card. And then all of a sudden D420K is like, hey, wrap a DVD case with a wider edge and it works even better.

3:42:19BubblemanThat was from sharing information and that shit wasn't happening before. The more we share information, the same way sharing clones, I'm telling you the better that the results will be for the majority of the people, not the few, but for everyone. And I fucking support that platform, model, whatever you want to call it. I am preaching. Sorry, I'll stop.

3:42:44BubblemanThis is a church preaching. Nice. Rick D says, I was dry sifting in 94. It's like, well, I'll tell you. Back in 94, I knew lots of people that were dry sifting. I just knew almost none who were producing 99% dry sift Uh, glandular heads. If you want to disagree with this one, the first time anyone posted a photo of glandular trichomes in a 99.9% and even coined that silly phrase 99.999, that was just because Skunk Man Sam let me photograph his resin.

3:43:20BubblemanHe could have photographed that resin 25 years ago and blew everyone away. But he waited until like 2008 when I got to photograph it. And I'll tell you, when I first looked under My camera, like, looked at the back of my camera at his hash. I just was like, holy shit. It was like the sun shined through the window. Angels were like, ah, in the background. It was the most incredible experience, and I'm telling you, there was really nothing like it before in my experiences.

3:43:55SpeakerIt's the real deal right there. Honestly, visiting Sam is like, For me, like, I don't want to, I'm not religious, but it's almost for a cannabis person, like, it's like not a holy experience, but it's like the wise man on the mountain and getting him to sit down and smoke hash and like talk to me and answer all my questions and then, you know, share his stash with me.

3:44:20SpeakerIt's like, it's the metaphor of martial arts. It's like the pursuit of knowledge and it's fucking awesome, dude. I mean, I didn't want to leave either time, you know.

3:44:31BubblemanAnd then if that's not enough, you have his amazing wife, you know, making some delicious Mexican food.

3:44:37SpeakerWhat's up? On her birthday, I got to hang out. It was so perfect, man. The whole thing was magic. I look forward to going back just so I can sit there and listen to him teach me stuff, to be really honest.

3:44:53BubblemanYep, absolutely. Yeah, Brett says, his uncle used to put a nickel in a keef box and shake it up to make keef, which people loosely call dry sift, which is annoying as hell. Dry sift looks like caviar at 60 times. Keef does not. Yep, I agree with that statement pretty much right on the nail.

3:45:10SpeakerBut you know what it was? It was Rob that taught me rototaps. It was this. It was, do I have the screens right there? Right here. And so...

3:45:21SpeakerHonestly, this is it. There you go. And, you know, once Rob showed me that all I needed was a 60 to a 150 and then as many in between as possible, and boom. That's what everybody should go and buy. But you're not going to get 99% heads like that.

3:45:35BubblemanYou're not going to get 99% heads like that, though. It depends. You know what? Me and Sam... You will never get 99% heads with just a rototap. That can take away a good chunk of worth, but I promise you, you won't get the 99%. I wish you could. Fuck, man, I wish it was that easy. I swear to God, that would be amazing.

3:46:01SpeakerIn my experience, back before the DEA stole all my scientific sieves and the rototap I had at my house, what I did is I stacked between 60 and the 150. And depending on the harvest, depending on the cannabis, different resin glands were produced in different sizes. So some plants would make like let's say a 90 or a 70 or even a 100 that would actually on that screen collect just real heads because all the other shit would fall through.

3:46:35SpeakerAnd this is where I started realizing that different harvests would yield different sized resin glands and different plants yielded different sized resin glands. Just like I would say trees give us apples or oranges. There's big oranges and there's little oranges. And on a micro scale, there's big resin glands and there's little resin glands. And I didn't really notice that until I was actually dry sieving almost all my strains regularly and watching the shit fall through.

3:47:02SpeakerAnd then going, wow, because now, depending on the varietal, I would want different sized glands depending on the development of the plant. And I know it's a little like to people, but it's what I was doing back when I had the house in 97 before I got raided. And it was all because of Rob and Dave teaching me because they handed old Ed a vial of resin glands that were just resin glands on his birthday.

3:47:26SpeakerAnd when I put it under the microscope, it was just heads. And I was like, how the fuck do you do this? And they were like, well, and this is where they had this longer conversation with me about it depends on what size heads you're harvesting, what plant you're using, how well you know it, da da da da da. And it blew my mind.

3:47:45BubblemanIt's kind of like you can always get that first bounce, you know, which is what you were acquiring there, that little like almost pure headies, which in reality it was probably between 80 and maybe 90% heads like most of the time, which is still amazing back then. It's like, and that was the only information that was really available to get even that close. But I'll tell you, even 95% to 99.9% is a giant leap in quality.

3:48:16BubblemanIt's unbelievable. You can't really even believe it. The further you decontaminate, it's like an exponential curve that once you get to like 95, it just starts climbing almost... Straight up.

3:48:33SpeakerHell yeah. I love your descriptions. You really can't believe it. It's unbelievable. I love how enthusiastic you are. It's fucking awesome. I need a bong roll.

3:48:47BubblemanI love that you were leaving an hour ago to do Sunday stuff. You've just been in deep conversation with us since.

3:48:54SpeakerYou and your interesting shit. And it's nice to be honestly home on a stable connection, talking to y'all, smoking really good pot and hash and oh my god.

3:49:02BubblemanYeah, I gotta say, I really like, I dislike the bad connection. When I have a bad connection and my computer's all jacked, it's no fun.

3:49:15Etienne FontanIt really is no fun.

3:49:19BubblemanSo I guess we've got a week to come up with a really great church. Any of you panelists that want to add anything different or unique, you can have kind of a cool little thing that you want to add today. One year anniversary is right around the corner, seven days from now.

3:49:33SpeakerPeople just asked for Mel Frank in the chat.

3:49:37BubblemanWe should.

3:49:38SpeakerLet's get Mel on the show, for sure.

3:49:40BubblemanI'd love to get Mel. I'd love to, even if it was only on a mic, I'd love to get the Skunk Man, Sam, even if he just had a list of questions that he accepted to ask and just came and shared like five or ten minutes. Pretty cool. Cool.

3:49:57SpeakerWow, that would be interesting. You know what? Maybe I could bring my computer and everything and just sit there and go, please, please, no video, please. Yeah, I'll try. You could do it too, Mark. But nothing but love for you.

3:50:10BubblemanWell, that's because I talked to him already about it, and he said, I'm not going on camera. And I'm like, dude, that's kind of a given. I know you pretty well. Like, I don't really even take your picture. He just doesn't like his picture being taken.

3:50:29SpeakerI have a bunch of pictures of him and Rob looked at my shit and he goes, you've got to be the only person he smiled at a camera for. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, well, obviously he knew you were taking his photo. I was like, he's posing for me. He's like, right. He's like, this is really unnatural for him.

3:50:43BubblemanIt's very unnatural for him. I have only those pictures from like going on vacation with him. So then that's like a different, but like at any type of event or like even outside those events in and around Amsterdam, he does not want his picture taken. Cannabis Culture Awards?

3:51:02SpeakerHe let me take him at the Cannabis Culture Awards at the museum and everything. I mean, honestly. Wow. Well, I guess it's come a long way.

3:51:11BubblemanIt's also, Rob's talking with like 30 years of experience too, so it's like he's come out of his shell quite a bit.

3:51:22SpeakerRob has too. I mean, you know, and I'm thrilled. I mean, when I first read Marijuana Botany, I was told that the guy didn't exist. It was probably a pen name. And, you know, and then to actually meet him, it's been just a daydream for a pothead like me. I mean, he was giving me articles out of hashish before he printed the book because I was doing the magazine back in 96, the English magazine Highlight.

3:51:46SpeakerAnd I got to read so much stuff from Hashish. He's been my major source of education about Hashish, of course, for a long time. Oh yeah, absolutely.

3:51:57BubblemanAnd now cannabis.

3:51:59SpeakerAnd now his book, Cannabis, Evolution, That's No Botany. He's 20 years... It took him 17 years to write this book. It has 350,000 words, and it's published by California University Press. It will be the book that colleges will have you learn cannabis from in the future. And they're... It's so advanced. I mean, truthfully. And now we're trying to get the thing out about Indica and Sativa and really all the subspecies of cannabis so people understand it even better.

3:52:29SpeakerI've got shit for people saying, oh, Indica and Sativa are going to stick because that's what we know. And I'm like, no, dude, we're going to change. Watch. We're going to learn new shit and adapt new shit, and that's how it's going to be.

3:52:43Etienne FontanIndeed. Indeed.

3:52:44BubblemanSomeone just asked me if I came up with my headies, and I assured them I did not. But I did name my company Fresh Headies, and only people from California, when I answered the phone, Fresh Headies, only people from California would be like, right on. Everyone else would be like, what? Fresh what? What? And it was like, from all, and we used to get calls from like every state and like countries.

3:53:10BubblemanBut Californians, every single time would be like, yeah, fresh eddies, dude, that's wicked. Anyway, I'm calling about getting some 20-gallon bags. It's like, ah, California. Gotta love Cali.

3:53:25Etienne FontanWe do have a very educated base of cannabis educated folk.

3:53:33BubblemanYeah, absolutely. I would not be surprised if an unknown American... Who told Neville that glandular trichome heads are dense and sink even in water. I would not be surprised to find out that that unknown American is a Californian.

3:53:55SpeakerSam was trying to remember the guy's name because at the time that he went over there and Neville told him what the guy taught him, Neville knew his name. So Neville knows the guy's name. The guy's not all that unknown. His name was forgotten.

3:54:10BubblemanExactly. Sam didn't remember and I've never been able to contact Neville since.

3:54:16SpeakerIt was when they visited the Cannabis Castle before the Cannabis Castle was Positronics, before the Cannabis Castle was actually called the Cannabis Castle and it was just Neville's house.

3:54:27BubblemanIt would have been pre-88, so between 85 and 87 or something, because it wasn't until 88, I believe it was a few years later. Sam took out the ad in High Times, which was Sadu Sam's secret water extraction, or whatever it was called. Secret extraction. I can't even remember now. That poster, I have the High Times that the poster's in, though.

3:54:53SpeakerYou know, the last catalog that Neville released from the Holland Seed Bank was 1990. I got to see all of the old, I got to see the first letter that Neville sent out as a seed catalog in 1984. Nice. Yeah, and all the way through to 1990, which was his last one before he got arrested.

3:55:13BubblemanYou should bring me next time.

3:55:14SpeakerWe'll just film all that shit. One sec, I got, he gave me a souvenir, a label, hold on.

3:55:22BubblemanHow's that for some fun? I would have loved to have gone and filmed those hemp fields and all that fucking Cannabis Castle shit. I haven't been to the Cannabis Castle since like the 1995 or something. Those were the days. Cannabis Castle. You just couldn't believe such a thing existed. Amsterdam already was so ridiculous. It was like, whoa, super culture shock if you'd never traveled before. I luckily had been to Europe before.

3:55:47BubblemanI had been to France, all around France, several years before I ended up at the Cannabis Cup. Quite a few, actually, like eight. But you've got coffee shops that are selling hash, they're selling weed. It's so different. You can get edibles. You can buy mushrooms. And then you end up on this bus and you go out to this fucking wicked mansion that's the cannabis castle and you just, it's just too much.

3:56:09BubblemanYou just can't even believe it. Back in the 90s too, right? Like when it was like 20 fucking years ago. Couldn't talk about things the same way wherever you lived. Yeah, I lived in the prairies too so that was like, you know, living in Oklahoma or something or Texas at the time. It was just like super not herb friendly.

3:56:37BubblemanI'll tell you, it's good to avoid those experiences. I'll tell a fun story of when I was back in my city growing cannabis and growing mushrooms and of course, you know, sharing a little bit with my friends and such through sales. And my roommate at the time was getting all into making bongs. He was like, I really want to make bongs.

3:56:59NickYou want to tell us about this before I go into this story, Todd?

3:57:06SpeakerWell, he gave me, I got a couple things. Ben gave me this, which is the 87 catalog from the Holland Seed Bank that had the very famous photo, sadly, that got Neville in so much shit. He took with a room full of hashish when he was seed scouting. The DEA ended up using it as the photo that they unfortunately used to go after him with. For under 2,000 seeds, sadly.

3:57:36SpeakerBut, so Sacred Seeds is probably arguably the world's first seed company, and these were the labels. This is actually a sticker from the 70s that was the Hindu Kush's. And then this was his very first Thank you for watching.

3:58:15SpeakerThank you for watching.

3:58:42SpeakerThat were literally on Sacred Seeds product. Easily the first in the world to do this.

3:58:49BubblemanThat's Sacred Seeds.

3:58:50SpeakerSacred Seeds.

3:58:52BubblemanOh yeah, so you're talking...

3:58:57SpeakerYes. Well, yes. Yes. Two parts, honestly. Yes. Yes, I am. Before Neville got a loan from the Dutch government to get off heroin and grow cannabis seeds, which is how the Holland Seed Bank started, believe it or not, Neville was an addict, and he used an addiction abatement program to get a home-based business loan so that he could then use it to start growing cannabis, which was totally legal in Holland at the time.

3:59:27SpeakerSo he used his cannabis farming to get off of his heroin addiction. And the rest is cannabis history. But before that was sacred seeds. Because a lot of these seeds that came over came over from California. The Hayes brothers lived not two hours from my house in the Santa Cruz Mountains, and they're the ones that first developed what we call Hayes.

3:59:49BubblemanYeah, well you know that they were stuntmen's neighbor.

3:59:52SpeakerCorrect. Exactly. Oh, I got the Hayes story this time. It was part of it. Every time I go, I have like a whole set of questions and I'm just like... You know, politely ask the questions, do a bong hit, wait for my response, and learn. And it's just, I learn. And, you know, it's nice to get these stories first person from the person who was there. And then to give me, you know, dude, it even has like growing tips on the back.

4:00:24SpeakerMay you enjoy happy growing and smoking. I love it. I absolutely love it.

4:00:32BubblemanYeah, I would just say that the Hayes brothers weren't necessarily making crosses in the beginning as much as acquiring herb from different countries that had seeds from these exotic varieties that were, you know, high in... No, the Hayes brothers were.

4:00:47SpeakerThey were. The better way to describe it was they were actually mixing together all these varieties. They weren't really breeding specific.

4:00:56BubblemanJust when they originally were getting what they, because what they were doing was they were acquiring strains like out of country. And they had seeds in them and that's where the seeds came from that they originally started working with.

4:01:11SpeakerYeah, yeah, yeah. But what you see when you see the varieties that, you know, what they were doing in these California hills were mixing together these land races they were finding and trying to, like anything does in botany, trying to improve upon what they found in nature. And, you know, we've done it with a lot of foods and stuff. I mean, human breeding, especially in the 20th century, has been tremendous.

4:01:32BubblemanYou know, they were simultaneously doing it in Australia. Yeah. You know, in Australia, they took all these incredible land race strains and they just, you know, crossed them and bred them into one another. And, you know, the Mullumbimby Madness, a fairly well-known Australian land race cross strain, is one that is so many different strains. Also, same idea, just strains coming from out of country, acquiring bag seeds and just planting, picking the nicest phenols and hammering them with the mail of their other favorite and just You've got some pretty special things that came out of those, you know, messing with those incredible, you know, what I would call like high quality Landry strains that were already like being really like had already in a sense been collected or, you know, chosen through strain selection, through smoking, through the consumption of cannabis.

4:02:35SpeakerYou know, an interesting connection I didn't notice is this catalog, which is the 1987 Neville catalog. When you open the first page, it's a picture of Skunk One. And what does he say? Skunk One originally developed by the Sacred Seed Company. And he gives credit to credit to because, you know, that's where he was getting it from at the time, you know. And it became the foundation of indoor growing for us, truthfully.

4:03:03BubblemanOh, absolutely, 100%, man. It's incredible.

4:03:09SpeakerAll of his legal collection is so incredible, man.

4:03:13BubblemanAll of it is incredible. All the stories, his collection is... One thing after another, he could pull out of the collection and literally blow your mind. We could do a whole four-hour hash church just on him going through his collection.

4:03:26SpeakerI'll wait longer, bro. Way longer. I was like fucking a kid in a museum candy store going through it. And it's in such perfect shape. And I mean, it's really, it's such, it's so amazing cannabis history. It's so beyond. And it showed me the market was a lot more mature than I even thought it was back then. Because, you know, these hippies were not just growing pot, they were making labels.

4:03:50SpeakerThey were really...

4:03:51Etienne FontanThey were amazing.

4:03:52SpeakerBeaver lamb dams. Yeah, anyone listening can just go to my Instagram at hempxxx and you can see them. I posted probably 30 or so of them. I had so many of them I felt like it was overkill, but they're all so uniquely different.

4:04:08BubblemanOriginal tie stick. Original tie stick, yeah.

4:04:14SpeakerThis description is classic. From high in the 7,000 foot mountains of southwest coastal India where for hundreds of years farmers have been growing and breeding since Amelia Smoking Ganja as a treasured family art passed from Father to son, Sacred Seeds has been carefully hand chosen, this finest of exotic cultivated Indian ganja variety seed. After an exhaustive three year search for the cannabis supreme, entailing visiting numerous farms and laboriously testing hundreds of local cannabis types.

4:04:48SpeakerIt's awesome, honestly.

4:04:51BubblemanTake some more pictures and post them to the hashtag.

4:04:55SpeakerYeah, I could post them all to Hash Church. Actually, now that you say it, that wouldn't be overkill. That would probably only take me a minute to do. Yeah. Much love.

4:05:05BubblemanSee you all next week. ATN, thanks for coming out, buddy. It's here. It's just past 1 o'clock. We've done four hours. I feel pretty solid.

4:05:14SpeakerWe should all really leave now, not just me. What the hell?

4:05:17BubblemanWe're doing it. Thank you guys so much once again. You can check us out in the Hash Church on Facebook. It is private. Thanks, everybody. Peace.