Celebrating 50 Episodes and Discussing Industry Regulations

0:02BubblemanYes, hello to my Hash Church congregation. Blessed love. Episode 50 in the house. You know what that means, everyone. That means we've been at this for 50 weeks and it has just been getting better and better and better. I'm about to send out the links to our congregation. The good folks of Hash Church, the Cubans and the Gendo's and the... Robert Connell Clarks and all of those such people, Todd McCormick and the ATNs, the Horatios and the Tony.

0:32BubblemanAnd yeah, I hope everyone is doing really good this early Sunday morning here, West Coast time. I'm going to get ready to, oh, there we go. Perfect. Block that right away. That was nice and quick. Doesn't always work out like that, does it? Well, I think the best way to start Hash Church for me, you know, is going to be with some of my new rosin. I got some new bubble recently.

0:56BubblemanGood morning, Etienne. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Good morning, sir. Happy 50th. Happy 50th, bro.

1:07Etienne FontanLet me tell you, happy this. Woohoo! What is that pretty good goodness?

1:13BubblemanThis is some bubble hash that I pressed out. Some really, really light colored bubble that I got recently. And the minute I saw it, I was happy. I knew that it was going to press out to something quite spectacular. It's shattery. It's damn near, you know, breaks. But it's got enough of a... Here, check that out. Woohoo! That's nice. Oh yeah, if I can just get it to focus, it's really freaking nice, dude.

1:43BubblemanThere we go. It's damn near transparent. Some of the nicer raws than I've made lately. That's for sure. How are things going by you, brother? Oh, you muted out.

2:01Etienne FontanThings are going good. Rolling with the players here. Still waiting on regulations here in California. I rolled out my little half grammars. Got some rosins here on the bottom. Yeah, dude, look at you already. Yeah, you know, he got ready, you know. This is hash, you know, we're pros. We gotta roll like pros, right? So I can't sit and look, hold on while I get my... Yeah, dude.

2:29BubblemanHey! Cutting out a little bit, I'm going to cut a few of these down, a few of my pages that I've got open because, well, it's once again this internet thing that we're dealing with. But if I can get that done and this done. And puff a bowl with our 272 viewers. Welcome everyone to Hash Church 50, Hash Church L, if you will, for the Roman numerals out there.

2:53BubblemanI'm going to start it off with a little dab and blow smoke towards the Vatican as our As Reverend Rob Clark will often say, so here's to you.

3:11Etienne FontanSo to get into it a little bit here, first off, Right now California is waiting on the regulations. The governor's off the side to step in and has stripped 266 and 643 completely with the words the state of California will regulate medical marijuana, which is ironic 19 years, almost 20 years after the fact. But if they don't do something this year, it'll be another two years. So they realize next year with legalization happening here in California that they have to do something.

3:51Etienne FontanThe reality is most of the stakeholders have been shut out by the governor's office. There are a few people in there, and I do have access a little bit. And they're not going to share language. They're going to try and run something through. They have until the 11th of September. We still don't know the language. We know that some of the language was pulled out and held aside.

4:14Etienne FontanWe don't know what that is. We do know that the alcohol industry came forward, but also stated that they are not prepared to regulate individual growers and stuff like that. They are not prepared. So even though people were afraid the alcohol board was involved, the alcohol board said, we can't get involved in this. It's too chaotic right now. So, language is staying tuned, listening for any language.

4:43Etienne FontanWe've heard rumors of different types of language, but again, at this time, we don't know to be our regulations. And while we're talking about registration last week, I'm very lucky in Berkeley that I'm regulated. Oakland is very fortunate that it's regulated too, but from what we're hearing, the regulations done by the state of California are going to allow jurisdictions that currently prohibit cannabis to continue to do so.

5:14Etienne FontanFrom what I am hearing, um, can you guys hear me?

5:22Etienne FontanNo, I think I need to re-log, I said.

5:24BubblemanReally? I can hear you perfect.

5:26Etienne FontanOh, you can? Okay, sorry. No, nothing. You're the only person in here, so I saw something that said I maybe needed to re-log.

5:33BubblemanYeah, I just, you know, as always, my computer sometimes doesn't have the best internet, so I find if I turn my camera off while you're talking that it's going to be a lot better for it coming through, so continue on. All right.

5:49Etienne FontanOkay, so with the regulations by California that currently prohibit over 100 different municipalities currently actually outright ban cannabis dispensaries. And again, as stated previous churches, that's been fought all the way to the California Supreme Court in one. So... From what I'm hearing, the governor's office is going to allow delivery in areas where it is forbidden for dispensaries. So that's their way to capitulate to allow for patients and other people to have continued access.

6:21Etienne FontanSo that's the reality that we're looking at right now. We don't know the regulations. I don't have copies. Everything that I post in Hash Church is literally all I currently know and all that any of us have absolutely information and access to. So it's very frustrating and I wish I had more information to actually tell you what's currently happening and that things are proceeding on point. But as I say...

6:49Etienne FontanPeople like me in Berkeley and Harborside are pretty protected in Oakland and in Berkeley, but other cities aren't so. And that is our concern for the patients is they've been regulated out of their own reality and are forced to travel further distances. And we're not sure what the actual regulations will come down to. Hopefully soon, because they have until the 11th. I'm hearing some regulatory language may come down on Monday or Tuesday, so I'll keep you guys posted as best as I can.

7:25Etienne FontanAgain, I apologize. It's just the information has been lacking out of the governor's office and from any of our constituency who's working because this is happening at a much higher level. I'm hearing literally that Moonbeam, who is, that's Governor Jerry Brown's nickname, His office has been burning the midnight oil multiple times, so the reality is that something is coming down from the state of California for regulation for medical cannabis.

7:54Etienne FontanFor that, we are happy, but the frustrating thing is we're not stakeholders. We don't have a word in on it. We're just waiting to find out what our sentencing will be, and again, I'm regulated and I'll be fine. My concern is for those that are in the outlying areas because, again, people, there's more than enough access in this entire industry for everybody, okay? Nobody needs to... No one's cornered in any markets.

8:18Etienne FontanThere's no markets to be cornered. Everybody has their place in it. And we just want to make sure that people have access. I was very fortunate to be regulated as a patient and that my city adopted us. Not everybody else can say that. I had to go through and actually... Thank you for watching.

8:50Etienne FontanAnd we want to make sure that, you know, if patients have the access, you have to be operating, and you have to be operating above board and as clean and as certified as you can possibly be. So this will help patients with the regulations, but again, stay tuned. This one's still writing itself. Speaking of that, congratulations, Bubble Man. I heard you signed a contract this week.

9:15BubblemanYes, long time coming for that one. It's, you know, I've been sort of Working on looking at a company to work with and you know it's been pretty much you can the entire time. Tony and Ernie are just great guys, trustworthy and friends above and beyond all else and it seems as though without the contracts we were seemingly heading down the road of constantly working together and helping one another out and facilitating each other's Research and, you know, I don't want to say agenda, but, you know, vision.

9:56BubblemanAnd so we already are partners in Jamaica in the CRD UCAN project over there. And so this sort of was just the next natural step to figure out a way to get my brand into the good U.S. of A, which is exciting. I'm very excited. And welcome to Jeff, the cannabis reverend, Mark Scaldone, our local chemist, and Mr. Todd McCormick, coming in live and direct from Amsterdam still?

10:29SpeakerYes. And, you know, I thought very fitting we do Hash Church in the Hash Museum a little later today. Yeah. Happy 50th show, bro.

10:40BubblemanYeah, happy 50th show to all of you guys. My goodness. It's funny, if you've never watched the first couple of Hash Churches, You should absolutely go back and watch those because they really show how spur of the moment and random and they really give a good idea of the sort of roots of how this all began and I thank all those people originally who came on randomly.

11:06BubblemanIt was... It was very cool. I do appreciate the newer filtered panelists. I love the fact that you guys all know what you're talking about and when I bring any of you in here that I know I won't be disappointed. And also with the people, I think that the way that the radical openness has been shared in this group, that people are less afraid... How they may have been in the past to maybe invite that guy that is their inspiration and that may be, you know, the one that they learned a lot of their information from and people have always been into sort of keeping that guy at bay.

11:41BubblemanAnd with Hash Church it hasn't been like that at all. You guys have brought the best of the best of the best in and I really appreciate it. The best of the best of the best. Speaking of the best of the best of the best. D420K! There it is. Yeah, there we go. You know, that's kind of like our church bell. That is our ding dong that calls us to church.

12:08BubblemanCalls us to church, and you know, I was thinking about that sort of church bell and how it really like, I don't know, it's just, it's hilarious, dude. It's all you, and thanks for being you, and thanks for coming and hanging out with us on church.

12:22SpeakerFuck, of course, buddy. Of course.

12:25BubblemanThanks for making it home on your motorcycle and fucking not witnessing or having to help people escape out of their trapped vehicle from terrible car accidents with semis.

12:35SpeakerYou know, I gotta say, that trip home yesterday, I was pretty fucking aware of what was going on around me, that's for sure. It was, uh... I paid a little more attention on this trip home than I did on the way down, that's for sure. Not that I don't, but... That accident was fucking horrible, man, on the way down. Horrible.

12:55Etienne FontanYeah, that's no good. Did you have to play a hero there, D420?

12:59SpeakerA little bit, yeah. I just had to help people. Just stayed with them because they were trapped in their vehicle and stuff. It was a pretty shitty scene. I'm surprised. I was blown away that anybody was alive in the vehicle, actually.

13:14Etienne FontanYou were taken out by a sack. And being involved for, you know, being concerned. Good man. Yeah.

13:20SpeakerI couldn't believe, you know, the semi-truck, a semi-truck hit this minivan and the semi-truck kept going. I couldn't fucking believe it. I was closed off for about six, eight hours easy.

13:38BubblemanIt's one more reason to be as positive as you can with your friends and family, be a loving individual, and don't be afraid to give that person a hug or a kiss or say I love you because, man, Life is some fleeting shit.

13:54SpeakerEven a sorry isn't so bad once in a while. It don't matter.

13:59Etienne FontanYeah. Yeah. Pay it forward. Give the love back. I mean, seriously. I always find out about my patients passing through, relatives coming and saying thank you. That has taught us always to respect and love each other. And that's one of the most things I instill in all my people at BPG is we never know if someone's today is their first day or it's their last day. So treat them with the respect that you would wish to see accordingly.

14:26Etienne FontanSo yeah, never forget to say I love you. And hey, most of you I've never met in person, but I love you guys and what you do. So much respect and thank you.

14:37SpeakerLove you, man. Love all of you.

14:40Etienne FontanKeep on.

14:41SpeakerCubano. Yo, what's up, people? Hey, I love you guys, too. I heard it on Double Vision for a moment, but I had to make myself a quick little slab, you know what I'm saying? What's happening, bro? True enough.

15:00BubblemanHey, welcome back, Horatio. We missed you last week. Sup, sup. Drama, apparently? What happened? You get hit by lightning or something?

15:10HoratioOh, every tree in the fucking province fell over directly onto a power line. So, if you're down, you're going down, and if you just got back up, you're going down again. It was 500 trees. It's what happens when everything's dry as a fucking bone, then it all gets wet in an afternoon. It all snaps.

15:33BubblemanYeah, some of it didn't even snap. I saw full root balls get pulled up on boulevards, like full trees with all the grass, the roots. Like literally it was probably the easiest job to fix. All they had to do was grab a little crane and pull the tree over and it would fall back in the hole.

15:49HoratioWhat I liked about that was to see that there would be a 30-foot tree and it was living in, it was stuck in this 6x6 mat that it was all supposed to hold onto the ground by. No fucking wonder the sidewalk came up.

16:01BubblemanYeah, no, I noticed that as well. Those root balls were done. The tap root was like four and a half feet.

16:08SpeakerYeah, man, the bad thing about those wind storms in the northwest is all it takes is one tree to fuck your day up, bro. One tree last year knocked down the power lines at my house and my boy's house, and I was without power for four days in the middle of like week four or five of flower, and it was like seven degrees outside. Not cool at all.

16:28BubblemanYeah, that's when the Jennys come in very, very, very properly. I would like to welcome Nurse Heather into the room. Thank you for, I guess, assembling some sort of balance to all this testosterone I've got in the room here.

16:43Nurse HeatherYeah, I thought I'd inject a little estrogen this morning. Thank you for having me, boys.

16:48BubblemanAbsolutely. Thanks for being here. We're celebrating our 50th episode. We're excited, you know. You just came in an episode or two ago, but can you imagine we've been going at this for 50 weeks.

17:02Nurse HeatherThis is incredible. Congratulations, Marcus. You've really set such a cool platform. People love it. So here's to 50 more plus 50 more on top of that.

17:15BubblemanAbsolutely, and I really have to thank all the people. I don't think people maybe even realize that the level of time, I don't pay anyone to come and spend their time here, so it's really just In their best interests to just come and share, and I appreciate that, that everyone, that that's what you choose to be in your best interest. You know, not everyone chooses that, so.

17:38BubblemanThat's very giving of all of you to come and share. There's 453 people listening right now, and I'm sure 10,000 to 12,000 will listen in the next seven days. They want to hear Cuban talking about his strains and how he grows and how he makes his hash. They want to hear Nurse Heather talk about the PTSD in Arizona and what's going on in California. They want to see D420K's dry sift, and they want to hear him say bong rip.

18:06BubblemanThey want to hear Etienne, like, nail the part. I mean, really, we should almost just listen to the Hash Church song, Mark. That was so good yesterday. Mark sent me an acoustic version. Maybe you guys saw it in the Hash Church group there, but my one-year-old son was loving it. Like, he just couldn't get enough of it. He does the sign. He signs because he can't speak.

18:25BubblemanBut he does the sign for more, which is like this. And so when the music stops playing, he'll go like more, and then he sort of moves his little body like he's dancing, like he wants more dancing. So I thank you for that, Mark. That was really pretty sweet yesterday to finally push play on that. And it is addictive. It's an addictive riff. And whatever you've done at the start there with the guitar, those rolling chords, that just added a whole new sort of fishy dimension that I fucking...

18:56BubblemanNot to blow smoke up your ass, but it's pretty fucking cool, dude.

18:59Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, like I said, the song wrote itself. You know, it was like, you know, we have so much to write about because we have so much to say, so it was just, it was one of those things where it was after the first night at the Mann Music Theater Fish Show, and I was kind of awake all night for obvious reasons, but And I just needed something to do to kind of take this creativity that we had sort of expressed the previous episode where it was Jerry's, the passing of, the anniversary to passing of Jerry, right?

19:40Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was that Sunday. And Mark, you remember a lot of people reached out on Facebook and people, we got a great response. They wanted me to play more music on Hash Church and it just, you know, kind of came together that, hey, I should write a song about it. It's It encourages everyone to be creative and use your creativity to create new things and that's the great thing about art and the parallels I draw between art and science all the time is that very rarely do you do something new.

20:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYou have to know what's been done before you and so a lot of it has to do with your interpretation on how you look at things and how you look at the world around you and I could Totally trace my fascination with chemistry and three-dimensional structures with endless hours of playing with Legos as a kid, unsupervised. And it wasn't like a Star Wars Lego set or a SpongeBob Lego set.

20:39Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was just a bunch of blocks with different colors. And they said, here, go play with those. You're supposed to build something with it. And that and Jerry Garcia... Who I basically look at as my inspiration. It's always great to share this story with everyone. We each have something unique to bring to this industry and to this field of what we do. It's stories on Hash Church.

21:12Dr Mark ScialdoneMark, what you've done is Inspire me to be creative, you know, right back at you. And, you know, here it is. We created now a song that we could sing with our kids for the rest of our lives. And it's great. I hope there's people writing new verses to the song. And it's meant to be put, you know, you put anyone's name in there, you know. We could put anyone, anyone who does anything in Hatch Church, we can put a verse in.

21:40Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it's cool. It's great.

21:43BubblemanYeah, once again, that's all the radical openness, you know, it was Horatio who would tell me about you, and he's like, yeah, I have this guy, and he's like, I'm able to bounce things off of him, and he's a real inspiration, and I was like, well, let's get him into Hash Church, and you know, it was... That's the value of not being afraid to invite in people that may know more about something or that may have a different, you know, there's no value in us sort of trying to keep, it goes back to when I used to flip pot in the city when I brokered cannabis.

22:15BubblemanI found that there were these incredible amounts of middlemen that were so desperately trying to make sure that the money and the grower never met that they just constantly kept deals from happening. They were the middlemen and they were the bane of my existence. And my whole existence was to get all the growers and all the money guys, like, to know each other. Why the hell do you need this, like, middle run of people that their whole job is to just, like, their agenda, their value is if you don't know one another.

22:44BubblemanI just want to flip that whole thing and be like, no, no, our value is in sharing with one another and in knowing one another. Definitely not keeping each other from one another, which I see happen in life.

22:58Nurse HeatherUnification, it's all about unifying. I want to thank you too, Marcus, for coming on the Good News Heather Show and unifying that way too. We're excited. We'll be releasing your show next Tuesday.

23:09BubblemanYeah, you know, that was real fun. You want to tell everyone a little bit about that where they can sort of hear you guys talk about that because Heather's got a pretty cool little show. It's a half an hour, which I love. You know, I was like, when she told me a half an hour, I was like, oh my God, I'll do that standing on my head, no problem.

23:26Nurse HeatherYou did. I think you did do it standing on your head. It's a really fun podcast. It's on CannabisRadio.com. It's called Good News with Nurse Heather. And I bring on some really amazing people who are my friends, who I feel close to and I know what they're up to and they're actually doing good in the world. And like I prefaced, Don't bring any bad news. We're only talking about good news.

23:47Nurse HeatherAnd you came on and killed it. Canna Kenny said that your interview was his favorite one. He had such a ball with you. But we just want to hear about what's good in the world. You know, I get tired of watching the news because it's always so negative and I feel bad afterward. And so these half-hour podcasts are really just to help us all Get to know one another, unify, and just feel good at the end of 30 minutes, and it's wonderful.

24:17Nurse HeatherSo thank you again for coming on. Like I said, not this Tuesday, but next Tuesday. Yours is going to be released, Marcus, and I know it's going to be awesome. People are going to love it.

24:26BubblemanVery good. Thanks for having me on. And you know, I might go out on a limb here and sound like a nut bar conspiracy guy, but there really is something to say with the vibrational frequency of the good news, the positive news, versus that sort of drowning, disappointing, sad news. That's meant to bring you down to a point that I'm certain that that in combination with endocannabinoid deficiency is probably their recipe for sickness or at least their recipe for depression and other frequencies that just, they stop people from becoming passionate and really kind of moving forward.

25:05BubblemanAnyone that's ever been extremely sick or been depressed can tell you either of those two things do have the ability To crush your positivity.

25:16Nurse HeatherWell, and even in this industry where we're doing so many amazing things, but there's also some, like we were talking about in Canada, the backbiting or the shit talking that goes on. And I like to have 30 minutes of eliminating all of that and just hearing what's really happening, the good things. Thank you so much for joining us.

25:56HoratioIt's pretty easy. I just, it's funny that it was, I remember like in 2007 this one day at work where I'm like, I'm sick of all this bad news. And I typed like goodnewsnetwork.com and it was like everything from like cat gets saved from tree to dog makes friends with dolphin. And it was just, I did that for a year and I didn't know what the fuck was going on because everything seemed so positive in everything I picked up.

26:19HoratioBut it was a good time and I do appreciate that you keep that spirit going so I'll participate for sure.

26:26Nurse HeatherAwesome. That's great. We'll have a fun time with you for sure. And I'm only going to be on for a little while this morning, guys, because I'm actually in my hometown of Farmington, New Mexico, where this whole thing started off for me. And I've got to go catch a flight this afternoon out of Albuquerque. So I'll be here for about 30 minutes, and then I'll say my goodbyes and give you hugs and kisses.

26:48BubblemanAwesome, Heather. Thanks for making an appearance with us today. And who was that that just came in? Was that the Aaron from DNA Genetics in the house?

26:59SpeakerI don't see nobody, bro.

27:01BubblemanI hear that voice. There he is. There he is. How you doing, brother?

27:05SpeakerI don't know. I'm trying to see you guys, bro. You can see me, but I can't see you. It's like... Can you hear me? I can hear you.

27:13BubblemanAwesome. That's cool. Roll with it, bro. You're professional.

27:18SpeakerOh, here we go. Here we go. Professional. Professional. I got the other professional in the house today. It's the duel? The duelogy? You got the D there? What? What's up, brother?

27:32BubblemanNice to see you. There's something about like either of you guys alone is awesome, but the synergy of the two of you together, even just to see you on camera, puts a smile on my face.

27:45SpeakerWell, it's good to see you guys, bro. I just got off a plane yesterday.

27:49BubblemanSo where have you been? Were you in Amsterdam?

27:52SpeakerYeah, I was in Amsterdam. I was in Africa. I've been all over the place. Nice. That's awesome.

28:00JordanYeah.

28:00SpeakerI'm only here for a few days, but yeah. I lurk and I watch Hash Church every once in a while. I'll go and find the old ones and the other ones and catch up and things. It's just managing with the time difference in Europe, it's kind of difficult.

28:15BubblemanAbsolutely. Well, we appreciate any time that you can show up and, you know, share your stories with us, share your time with us.

28:22SpeakerI'm going to leave him with you so he can share all the stories. I'm out. I'm going to share a story in the other room real quick. I just woke up, so. Yeah, boys.

28:33HoratioWell, don't leave us hanging. You can't just be like, I was in Amsterdam, stopped off in Africa, now I'm in California. I'm like, what seeds you got in your pocket? Come on. What seeds you got?

28:42SpeakerThen he's going back to Amsterdam, and then both of our asses are going to Canada. Canada! Hopefully we'll see Mark there.

28:50BubblemanYes, I do hope to see you in Canada. That would be very, very nice.

28:56SpeakerHey, you know I'm like three hours from Canada if you drive slow, right? So if you drive fast, it's like two. You should come see me too. From where? From Canada, man. I'm in Washington. Come check me out, man. You got a long drive, buddy. You need to be in Detroit. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. You said that you were going to go see Mark, right? In Canada.

29:16SpeakerNo, we said Mark might come see us. Oh, I'm like, all right, damn. That's how the team works. We all meet up on the East Coast.

29:27BubblemanWhen we can, where we can. That's our logo.

29:32SpeakerSo what up with all of you guys on this beautiful Sunday morning?

29:37BubblemanWell, you know, I've got my, I've got some hash.

29:46Etienne FontanWait a second. You've got hash? Holy shit, people. Bubble Man's got hash. I got some melt.

29:54SpeakerI got some seeds.

29:57BubblemanThat's how you dry hash properly right there. I got a pipe. That's the one that wants to know. So yeah, this is awesome that I made. Look at the color difference in these two.

30:08SpeakerThere's the hash.

30:11SpeakerI'll take the one that's smaller.

30:13BubblemanWell, yeah, dude, look how it pressed out in rosin. Not that little red dot. That's different.

30:22SpeakerThat's a booger, huh? That's a nice color, man.

30:26BubblemanIt's a beautiful color, man. Let me tell you, when it squeezed out, to be honest, it was pretty much the exact same color as the Barbzen that we pressed. I think that was the first time Barb ever got pressed at the booth that I shared with Javi from Medical Seeds, and Jeff was there, and there was a whole shwack of us there. It's all on film.

30:50HoratioYou guys were there actually.

30:52BubblemanAaron.

30:52Etienne FontanWhat temperature did you use?

30:56BubblemanDid I use for this hash that you're seeing right here?

31:00Etienne FontanYes, because I guess that'll be the new thing is how much pressure and what was the temperature.

31:07BubblemanYeah, well, that's definitely most important. I see it being a very important factor in bud when people are like, oh, I'm not quite getting the yield. It's like, well, more pressure or more heat, either or, or the combination of the two definitely can push that resin out further if it's getting trapped inside. With hash, I haven't seen that as much because there's so much available. Maybe you're missing out on that last little bit, but I brought my temperature down to about 100 degrees.

31:36Bubbleman105 degrees Celsius, which is 215 or 220 Fahrenheit? Does that sound about right, Jeff? 221. 221, okay. So yeah, lower than I was. I was making it. You know, I made a bunch of this stuff. This was 250 degrees Fahrenheit, and it was dark bubble.

32:06BubblemanAnd it's beautiful, beautiful stuff, really stable, but quite red and darker as opposed to something like this.

32:14SpeakerYeah, some things just turn darker, you know, no matter what temperature you do it at. I've been pressing at 200 degrees or lower Fahrenheit lately, and I've really been enjoying the flavor. You know, it's getting me that waste product that doesn't smell like popcorn, and that's really the key. If it smells like popcorn, you've gone too hot for sure. I know.

32:38BubblemanI forgot the popcorn, but I remember people talking about the popcorn, and then finally someone let me smoke rosin that they must have heated up like over 300 degrees Fahrenheit, because it tasted like the vaped fucking herb, like way-vaped herb, like 12 bags later on the volcano. I was just like, what the fuck?

32:57SpeakerYeah, that's not what you're after.

33:00BubblemanHoratio's doing the face palm. He's saying Terp Destroyer.

33:05HoratioWell, I noticed with rosin there really is bad material in, bad material out. I had some LHO that just yielded like a joke and I went back to the material and I'm like, well, let's just get some rosin out of this to make it through and it never made it out of the material and I'm like, fuck you, I'm going to roast this shit until I get something and I finally got something to squeeze out and it tastes like popcorn and I'm like, fuck this, I don't I still blame the bud.

33:31HoratioSo hopefully it's not their tech and they're not really just steam demons.

33:36BubblemanWell, what I suspect is that that is a lack of, they're getting all the moisture out because that's what always happened with vaporized material. Once all the moisture was out, you really, that vaporized popcorn smell and taste came on pretty strong. If you had a decent amount of fresh, you know, nugget, not fresh fresh, but like well cured nugget, still has a percentage of moisture present in it, that's a big factor for vaporizing and it's a big factor for making rosin, especially with bud, because moisture is 100% as important as the heat and the pressure.

34:13BubblemanWould anyone disagree?

34:18HoratioWith flour, it's so much more, I mean, I don't do flour rosin typically because I'm allergic to it, but when I tried, it really became, I'm like, it seems more of an art form. I kind of, I guess that's why I like pressing sift. It's consistent. It either has the juice or it doesn't, but flour, I mean, even a grower can change the shape of a plant to make it even harder to rosin than it should be.

34:42BubblemanHere's an interesting topic. I was talking with Skunk Man Sam recently and we were, I had a conversation with Rob Clark even months before this and we were talking about, you know, why, because I have strains of hash that I've cured for five and six and eight and ten years and, you know, a departed friend, Michael Rich, RIP, rest in peace, he had hash that was over 20 years old, dry sift, from 1991, I believe.

35:09BubblemanI smoked it only when it was 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and then I didn't smoke it again until it was 20, and then haven't smoked it since, but I think it's well over 24 years old right now. What do you breeders think? Because Skunk Man Sam said this, and it sort of surprised me, that there are terpenes that require... Off-gassing, the most caustic, the ones that maybe won't be good for you, the ones that you wouldn't want to maybe vaporize or inhale a lot of fresh.

35:41BubblemanAnd he was saying that there could be, he was throwing it around as a theory, that there could be the same way there would be terpenes that you would want to breed into a strain, there could be terpenes that would be best bred out of the strain. Now that is with the limited knowledge of, I want to hear from you first on this, Aaron. That is with the limited knowledge of what synergistic effects are happening with terpenes.

36:05BubblemanWe don't know what that key could be once it's removed. But I do know from smoking, and I do know from being in Amsterdam this last year and having the dry sift that never buttered out and was well cured, well cured, months and months and months cured before it was ran, and then it was cured for many more months, and it was perfect, full melt, sweet skunk powder.

36:25BubblemanAnd every time I smoked it with someone, they were just like, that was so pleasant. My throat feels amazing. And after I smoked it for a long time, I noticed as I started taking hits of other people's product, particularly from fresh frozen, that it was scratchy and raspy on my throat. So go ahead, Aaron. Let me hear what you have to say.

36:43SpeakerI mean, I think there definitely are terpenes that need to be bred out of strains. You know, I think certain strains have a more unique flavor terpene presence than other strains. I mean, I wouldn't. You know, there's, I mean, I think that's one of the key ingredients when you're doing a breeding project is, oh, what are you trying to accomplish and what are you trying to achieve?

37:10SpeakerAnd I want this plant here to grow like this plant over here, but I want it to smell like this plant over here. I'll give you a good example, a 24K kosher tangy.

37:22BubblemanI was thinking about it, to be honest. As you said what you said, I thought literally about the 24K. We want

37:29SpeakerA plant that has a decent yield and the strength of kosher with some nose, because the nose is very pleasant, but you definitely want that tangy terpene in that strain. Now, when you cross it, you're going to end up with phenotypes that run both ways. And then the one you really want is the one that's right in between, the one that has The power, the structure, and the growth of kosher, but yet it smells like tangy.

38:05SpeakerAnd not saying that you want to really breed out the kosher terpene, but it's really the tangy that's bringing that smile to your face when you smell it because that's that aromatherapy terpene that's in it. And I wanted to bring up something else since Since we're on just talking about other things, last week was, two weeks ago was the Michigan Cup. A lot of samples tested positive for mold and bugs.

38:46SpeakerI just want to speak as a grower first before I go into a breeder and a company owner. I just want to speak as a person. If I'm entering a cannabis cup, Okay, and I have to pay $1,000 to enter this cannabis cup. And you have to enter 40 grams of your best flowers to enter this cannabis cup. Don't you think, as a grower, in your right mind, you are going to visually inspect every single bud that you're entering into this competition.

39:21SpeakerEvery 40 grams, and make sure it's the best representation, especially since you're spending $1,000 to enter it, the best representation representing you or your company to enter. Now, and then like people did, people entered their 40 grams, they paid their $1,000, there was multiple entries, and 40 of the entries, 40 of however many entries were tested positive for mold,

39:50SpeakerAnd bugs, okay? Now, I don't know about you, and I'll go to Todd first because I know Todd's a grower, and I'll go to Cuban because he's a grower. Would you guys enter some buds that had mold on it that you could see or had bugs on it that you could see? You know, from two sides of that, you know, look, I tripped when I saw it because I'm like the one person on here saying watch out for even water hash because, you know, what you run gets put into what you're smoking.

40:21SpeakerAbsolutely. The thing is, though, is that, you know, and just to play devil's advocate for a second. One, you're never more than like six miles from water in Michigan and it's a very wet place. It's a very moldy place. Two, I don't know if the people that got handed the pot at high times handled it properly. It could have been put in bags. It could have been suffocated.

40:42SpeakerIt could have been put into something that didn't breathe. And for all the samples to have it, I'd love to see the test results, but I'm a little suspicious of the fact that if you put...

40:54SpeakerIt's environmental and not just something that you can pick up in growing, so I'm suspicious of that. The bugs, though, are something that I am blown away with. I mean, if you are entering pot that has insect eggs on it or worse, insects that you can actually identify with a microscope, you really just shouldn't be competing. Absolutely. I just don't think like, as a grower, I sure as hell know that If I have some bugs or some mold on my bud, I'm not entering.

41:29SpeakerI don't have bud. Yeah, but you know what, man? I think that... I'd rather skip that category because I'm not going to represent myself or the company that you're trying to win a cup for in a cannabis cup. It doesn't work. And the way they tested these flowers was a visual inspection, by the way. There was never any tray dishes, a culture count. There was nothing. It was...

41:54SpeakerPurely visual inspection. Well, that's crazy. I understand that they did have actually one lab tested positive for mold and they supposedly went to another lab that gave them a clean test. Right. And the mold, the lab that tested positive for the 40 samples, they retested some of those samples. And when they retested those samples, they didn't come back with mold. The company that said 40 of these entries and posted results, which are hard to I feel bad for all the guys that got called out because, like, it kind of sucks, you know, in some ways.

42:32SpeakerYou're a company, you enter the best thing you can. It kind of sucks, but, like, and then you retest the test results that these people posted and they come out negative because they tested with their eyes and these other guys tested with actual dishes. So, I don't know where... Where it went wrong, I just know that I find it hard to believe that 40 of the best growers or 20 of the best growers that are out there that are entering the cup that I know quite a few of them since I've been around this industry a little bit.

43:09SpeakerI've been in their rooms. For me, it's really hard to believe that these guys are getting called out. I'm not saying people I eat bread with or people I work with. I'm just saying people in general that have been to their spots. I find it very hard to believe that. Thank you for watching.

43:44BubblemanYeah, this is probably why the LPs are forced to irradiate the cannabis that they grow.

43:50SpeakerThat's exactly why, because it's a living product until you actually do that. I would love to ask, Mark, how easy is it for flowers to pick up mold if the environment is moldy? How could handling have done this? Can handling one moldy bud in a room cause all the buds? No, no, here's the thing, because look, they do intake for the weed. If they had done the intake in a place where there was mold present or they stored the pot incorrectly for any amount of time, didn't allow it to breathe, I mean, not to be rude, the people running the magazine are not growers, or they would be growing herb.

44:31SpeakerInstead, they're working it The jobs that they do. It could easily be an overlooked thing where they handled it wrong and suddenly they fucked off 40 samples a pot because it's still a vegetable. It's still this living vegetable product that we have to treat as such.

44:50BubblemanYeah, well this is a big thing with a lot of people that maybe, you know, Mark could speak upon the irradiation, which is not radiation, the irradiation of food and of cannabis products because most people hear it and they get very terrified right away and I've kind of heard them go to bat against it and I know those same people are eating and consuming irradiated foods. How bad is it?

45:17BubblemanIs it something we want or is it something we don't want?

45:21SpeakerWell, you know what? I read on one of those Instagram posts, because the web is going hard on the 40 entries, so everybody has an opinion, that even if you irradiate or whatever, like use UV or whatever other means to lower the actual living organizm count, that all of it still creates and leaves behind like a toxin, even if you end up effectively killing it. But, man...

45:50SpeakerAaron, you know, I'm not a scientist, bro. I just like you can visually look at a nug and of course you're going to put the tops of the tops and shit. And I respect and look up to you a lot as a grower, you know what I mean? But if they didn't do like some scientist lab type shit where they actually like, you know, tried to create a culture or whatever, then that shit.

46:15SpeakerYou know, don't mean anything, man. How the fuck can somebody tell that something has mold with their eyes by breaking up the nut? That doesn't make sense.

46:22BubblemanI just got a message from a guy by the name of Jordan. He says he's a grower in Michigan, and he actually spoke with Iron Labs, the lab that came out with those results. And so I've just invited him in here, and, you know, anytime someone splits and makes room, he'll pop into... To share what he knows about the situation with us and being a grower in Michigan.

46:50Nurse HeatherI have a question though, guys. Who actually noticed that there was mold? Was it the judges? Was it the handlers? How did they find that?

47:01SpeakerThe labs.

47:02Nurse HeatherThe lab. So it wasn't... Because I've judged a few times, and I'm going to tell you that would be kind of stressful if you got all these samples that you could visually see the mold. What is a judge supposed to do? Do they just, you know, exit? Or, you know, how do they handle that?

47:19SpeakerYou know, that's very... It's a very good thing that you bring that up, because this is one of those things. If you're a judge, okay... I've been a judge. I'm sure there's a lot of people on this panel that's been a judge in some kind of competition. You visually inspect. You very well look at it. You smell it. I mean, if there's mold or bud rot or something, visually you can see a bug or something, I'm sure a judge can see it too.

47:54SpeakerI'm sure the judge is more in tune with the cannabis industry Thank you for joining us today.

48:15Nurse HeatherI had done edibles. I was judging edibles one time, and this beautiful packaging, and I opened it up, and this beautiful edible with a big-ass hair right in the middle of it. And I thought, how could you miss that? I mean, it's right there. And so, yeah, I was just wondering if it was the judges that had brought this up about the mold or if it was just the lab.

48:40SpeakerThe judges voted for what they felt was best. And according to the judges, the one that they felt was best actually ended up after these reports were published by the lab, and now they've so been taken down, they called out quite a few people. And one of them was a winner. I don't want to say the name because I think it's wrong because we don't have accurate proof that it was a positive test.

49:15SpeakerBut let's just say, I know a lot of these people, and it's kind of like, there was no petri dishes, there was no, none of the testing that you used for mold was used, except for a visual inspection. Now, if you're going to call out people and discredit them and run their name through the mud, you better have proof before you say that type of shit, because these are people's companies that these guys are talking about.

49:43Nurse HeatherAll right, guys. I'm going to send you all my love. I'm going to jump off so others can get on. Happy 50th anniversary.

49:49BubblemanHey, thanks for coming by, Nurse Heather. We'll see you.

49:53Nurse HeatherI love you guys. Bye-bye.

49:56SpeakerYou know, Aaron, and that makes me think even more that it's quite easy that all of those samples could have gotten contaminated because if growers turn their shit in just a little bit uncured and a little bit too early, it is really easy to have Paco Moldy in a bag. If somebody shuts it, lets it sweat, throws it into a backpack, you know, all the tests could have easily been visually, if you're talking how much goes to the lab, a gram?

50:21SpeakerHow about the travel time on the way to Michigan, buddy, for these dudes? Well, let's pretend it was all from Michigan, right? It's the Michigan Cup. And all these dudes are from all over the United States. So, you know, their shit got there somehow. Yo, that new talk that you sent that says that lab-tested mold dismissed at the Michigan Cup, they revoked cups? Is that what they're talking about?

50:47SpeakerI don't have time to, like, click out and read it, but I looked at it real quick, and No, everybody shave their cobs. Oh, alright, good, because that would be some fuck shave if they did that again. I've got to get some water, I've got to cut now.

51:00BubblemanHey, welcome Jordan. This is Jordan that was telling me about being a local Michigan and having spoken with Iron Labs. He was going to share some information with us. Welcome to Hash Church, buddy.

51:12JordanHey, what's up guys? I've been watching Hash Church since the beginning.

51:17BubblemanAnd now you're on it.

51:19JordanYeah, it's pretty crazy.

51:22BubblemanSo tell us about Iron Labs.

51:25JordanWell, they're probably one of the only labs here in Michigan that's like legit, I would say, that's got like quite a bit of money into their setup.

51:38JordanI talked to the one chemist up there, and he said he only had like a bachelor's degree in like biochemistry, or yeah, I can't remember exactly what he was saying.

51:48SpeakerDid I miss something?

51:57JordanCan you hear me?

51:58BubblemanYeah, we can hear you. Go ahead.

52:01JordanBut yeah, he was telling me that a lot of the samples that they tested, I don't know if they tested all the samples, but a lot of the samples they tested did test positive for mold. A lot in the water hash and all the water hash that they get, because I'm a water hash maker myself, test positive for mold all the time, actually here in Michigan a lot, especially during the summer months, because our humidity gets like, Thank you for joining us.

52:49BubblemanFor sure remove all the water. You will have water present in your final product. And so to go and start selling it on the open market is somewhat irresponsible at best.

53:02SpeakerWell, even if you pull the water with that much humidity, if you leave that jar open for just a little while and seal it, you're just introducing it right back in there. Sorry to cut you off. You know what? My buddy spent a week out in Florida. And he took like seven, eight grams of hash. And he said by the third or fourth day, you know, just like picking at the stash, that it was already sizzling on the nail.

53:28SpeakerAnd it was not sizzling when it was in Washington, you know, so humidity sucks.

53:32BubblemanWell, I would put my dry hash up against his dry hash any day because after 10 days in November in Amsterdam where the humidity is high, it rains every day, there's water everywhere, my hash stayed bone dry. Never buttered out, never caked. Was smooth as fuck. And you can dry hash. It's all in that wax membrane. That thing holds fucking moisture. And if you leave too much moisture... What's that?

53:59SpeakerIt was like sand. Yeah, it wasn't like sand. Yeah, I... I'm sorry, I think resin profiles, though, attribute a lot to that. You know, what he had was some fresh frozen cookies, and that turns into a goo... Within days in room temp, you know?

54:15BubblemanWell, because fresh frozen, the wax membrane's never been dried ever. With dry sifting, we dry the material, so the wax membrane, it sort of turns into a little raisin. In all dry sifting cultures for many, many decades, They dry the material. This whole fresh frozen thing is new. People trying to trap those caustic terpenes that would otherwise, you know, volatize and evaporate at room temperature. They try to capture those in their hash, and what happens is nine out of ten times you get this whitey, you get this caking.

54:50BubblemanAnd we've been talking about it now for, I'd say close to, well, 10 years, for as long as we've been, plus, for as long as we've been doing Legends, because at the first Legends, I'll never forget both Dave and Rob seeing this one hash and being like, oh, this looks nice, and then being like, oh, but it's whiting out, squeezing it between their fingers and watching it go to cake, and just being like, oh, that's interesting.

55:13BubblemanYeah, I wonder why Waterhash does that. Here we are, like, 13 years later, and we still don't know. We argue... That it could be terpenes escaping out of the bottom of the head that's broken from the capitate stock and those terpenes are acting as a solvent on the gland head or is it content of moisture that's left behind that's doing that? It would seem if all water hashes are failing microbial tests, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that water is probably the main reason that those wax membranes are breaking down.

55:49BubblemanAnd it would be nice to see properly dried water hash. You know, we might have to get away from the fresh frozen aspect. We might have to get away from, you know, this goes back to these terpenes. Are these terpenes that we want present or are they more caustic, more volatile, more like sharp on the throat because they evaporate off first? They're like the lightest terpenes that there are.

56:15SpeakerYou know... I like how you compare it to like a raisin because when I was at Chalice, I was explaining that I had nine months here dry sift, you know, and I keep my material in a cold, a dark room. And I was explaining, I'm like, look, fresh frozen to me. Yeah, it is. It's like grapes that if you leave it out in the sun, eventually will go bad.

56:35SpeakerIt's not like a raisin where it can withstand heat and temperatures and still be a raisin in the end of the day. So I totally, I like that. But Sometimes, man, I feel like I get in water hash, but water hash and dry sift are totally different animals, I think, for sure. In water hash, sometimes, man, I get on some strains, like forum cook cookies, for example, a nicer quality melt and just a more appealing hash, fresh frozen.

57:01SpeakerIt's just more beautiful, you know, in my opinion. When I wash it dry, it never compares to the fresh frozen. But I have strains that I can wash nine months down the line, dry and cured, because I only wash dry and cured. It's what I prefer. Get fatter patties in the end of the day and stuff, you know. I'll notice that that melts no matter what, fresh and dry.

57:21SpeakerI think it's straight and specific for sure. Why some people go with that fresh frozen.

57:26BubblemanBack in the day when I was learning this, I really was always running dry. And it made it harder because what I find with fresh frozen is it's kind of almost a faux melt. Thank you for watching.

58:05BubblemanYou know, I don't even know when Fresh Frozen popped up. Maybe 05 or 06 that people were like, oh, what about running Fresh Material? I was like, yeah, you can run Fresh Material, no problem. The problem was... Is that if you didn't smoke that shit fast or keep it in your freezer, no one seemed to know how to dry it. Everyone laughed at me when I said you need to use a desiccant that's in actual contact with the product.

58:28BubblemanAnd I'm in the Pacific Northwest. I'm in like the highest humidity in fucking North America seems to be right here. Like it's just... Thank you for watching.

58:55BubblemanAnd then my mind goes into the secondary, more important aspect, and I want to make sure that that wax membrane isn't so fresh, full of moisture, that it's going to cake out my hash. You know, I don't want my hash to cake out. I love the stability of dry sift or wet wash that stays the way it's supposed to be for a long, long period of time.

59:16BubblemanAnd that's why I play around with hashes. That's why I have You know, little pieces of hash that are, this one here is almost eight years old. This little piece right here, and let me tell you, it is stable. This is stable water hash. Dabs, melts, bubbles, it's red as fuck. And I only, you know, that's how you learn about these things, by keeping these hashes for long periods of time, for learning at what point does it create this sort of membrane around the outside of the hash the way you've seen third world import hash, Afghani and Moroccan, create that skin over the hash, which this also has.

59:54BubblemanIf you look up close, this definitely has a sheen and a skin, and if I rip it open, it's a different color on the inside as it is on the outside. I wouldn't do that because I'm waiting until year 10 to do that, but I hope you guys are all here when I do it. We will puff that shit. I love the smiles on Todd and Cuban's face.

1:00:12BubblemanHoratio, you were pretty good too. Anyway, let's take a dab of something beautiful, shall we? While we have the time on our hands. Good conversation today. Very good. Enjoy the conversation about... You know, I think that the most important aspect that this isn't necessarily learned in a lab, but what we are talking about could generally be confirmed by a lab. And I appreciate that, that we will see a lot of these random conversations that we have Thank you so much for joining us.

1:01:08BubblemanThat offers a different profile. Maybe it was taken at 10 weeks, maybe it was taken at 13 weeks, maybe it was, I don't know the various ways of manipulating phenol and terpene manufacturing, but I think that it's exciting to think that we're even on a path that may lead us to those things.

1:01:29HoratioWell, one thing I'd jump in and say is when we were talking about like, well, are there terpenes we should throw away? And I'm like, well, we've already, we still got that argument. Look at all the terpenes that aren't being grown because of prohibition. The strains that are now nine week strains because you can get enough terps to sell them. But really on the 12th week, the real bouquet and the actual plant, the genetic shows up.

1:01:52HoratioSo I kind of, that's why I'm like, no, there's no room to throw away terps. To throw away terpenes when we barely get them, even though it seems like there's a lot of pot and there's a lot of flavors, I've gone back and smelled strains and I'm like, you smell like this strain but there's no trichomes yet. You're basically, as soon as it's smelled like the strain that people harvest, their strain seems to be like that.

1:02:16HoratioI had a question for Aaron. Now, let's say somebody's given me some clones, and they're like, yeah, yeah, you know, this is the Tangelo. And I'm like, oh yeah? Well, they just look like, you know, two green leaves all cut up, so I don't know what to say. It's going to be a while. But I've noticed with, I could say, the phenols I like the most, I can absolutely identify the strain in veg from the trichomes that form on the sun leaves.

1:02:43HoratioAaron, do you find that if it's really anything like the mother that inspired the strain, it always smells like the strain in veg, or is it completely random?

1:02:53SpeakerA lot of times, the strain's special in veg also. You know? You can rub, just like Cuban said on our chat right here, you can rub the stem. I mean, that's like, I'm a big believer in Going through plants and rubbing the stems, I only got ten fingers, so it's like you can only go so far because you've got two thumbs and you need those thumbs to help you rub.

1:03:21SpeakerBut the stem rub helps early trichome production. You could pop those early ones and get a good whiff of the terpene presence. Usually all the way through there's something that stands out about that plant that made you want to use it in your breeding program. To begin with, you know?

1:03:42HoratioOkay, because I had that feeling, and people would be like, no, no, my strain doesn't smell like anything in veg, and then I'm like, show me your flowers, and they're like, smell this, it's amazing, and I'm like, yeah, huh? How come when I go home, I pop five seeds, two smell like half of the strain's description, one completely smells like the strain, and two smell like nothing, and I'm like, Thank you for watching.

1:04:04HoratioSee you next time.

1:04:27HoratioI 100% believe that that true genetics always show up all throughout the plant, and everything else is just a waste. But I always check to see if I'm wrong and there's going to be some silent creeper, but I don't really believe it. It'll have other problems and be probably vulnerable. I feel like those terpenes protect the plant the whole way through.

1:04:48SpeakerDon and I have killed more plants that we don't like the smell of, you know, than anything. I think that is the biggest... You know, if a plant's not so beautiful looking, that's okay. But if it doesn't have the desired smell that Don and I are looking for, then I don't, yeah, it's not special. You know, it could be special if I took that plant to a lab and I had it analyzed, but I don't think if, oh, look who's here, the man, Soma's here, holy shit.

1:05:27BubblemanI thought Todd teleported for a second. I thought Soma was on TV. Like, it tripped me out. I was like, why does Todd have Soma on TV?

1:05:37SpeakerBecause I'm on TV. Well, kind of TV, anyway. No, but it falls down to the selections, you know? If you don't like it, kill it. But it could be special. I mean, maybe it's high in CBD. You know, I don't necessarily like that profile of CBD varieties.

1:06:02BubblemanHere's something I'll say. I'll say this about both of these. Don and Aaron as well as Soma. And I even put Breeders Steve on there and a few other breeders that I know. The ones that I've always been the most impressed with are the ones that are like connoisseurs. The ones that puff tough. They like smoke joints and smoke dabs and fucking smoke all the varieties. It's like you have to be a connoisseur to really know how you're going to recognize that plant.

1:06:32SpeakerIt should be the same with a... It should be the same with all the coffee shop owners too, but it's not.

1:06:37BubblemanOh shit, dude.

1:06:42BubblemanMan, I'm telling you, that is 100% truth. It should be. And in fact, when you start going, the first time I went to a coffee shop in the mid-90s, and I remember the first coffee shop I went to was on the Dam Rock, just walking down towards the greenhouse there. And it was just on the right, and I can't even remember the name, just like a no-name kind of like whatever coffee shop.

1:07:03BubblemanAnd the vibe, we were just so excited to be able to go in and buy some herb.

1:07:07SpeakerNo shit.

1:07:08BubblemanAnd some hash, right? You know, it's like $94, $95. We were so happy about it. But then when I look back, I think, man, that was like a coffee shop not owned by a connoisseur. Like that literally was like a guy that's just like, I'm making money, this is my coffee shop. I'm going to chain smoke cigarettes 24 hours a day right in this fucking stool and drink beer.

1:07:30BubblemanAnd not smoke weed. And sell subpar product because I don't even know what good weed is.

1:07:37SpeakerWell, I got it. Look, there's a few coffee shop owners that would smoke, okay? And it brings up a good question. Soames, how you doing, buddy? How you doing, Pop? How are you? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Dee's in town. We're getting caught up on a lot of things. Nice. It's good. Nice. But out of all the coffee shops that we've dealt with in Amsterdam over the years, I would have to say John and Harry from the Katsu are the biggest smokers.

1:08:08BubblemanKatsu.

1:08:08SpeakerYeah, but lately they didn't have such good smoke because nobody has money that goes to the shop lately. It's weird. Right. But out of the coffee shop smokers, those are the dudes. Yeah, man. They had great smoke in the old days. They always had great hazes, you know, that nobody else had. To be truthful, so do you. I mean, you know, people that say there's not good pot in Amsterdam just don't know you.

1:08:32SpeakerI mean, you know, because you're a smoker. And he always has really good shit.

1:08:37BubblemanPeople that say there's no good pot anywhere, all I ever say to those people is that you keep fines.

1:08:47BubblemanBecause I can say with a surety, everywhere I've been, there's been the best, like some of the world's best, like just incredible quality. I'm always blown away by it.

1:08:58SpeakerIt's totally dependent on who you know.

1:08:59BubblemanWhat's that?

1:09:00SpeakerTotally dependent on who you know. If you know a good grower, it is. I mean, when I was 13, 14, 15, my friends would chide me, be like, oh, you got homegrown. And my response was always, hey, fuck you, everything's homegrown. If you're in the home it's grown in. One of the first people Don and Aaron got a hold of when they came to Amsterdam was me.

1:09:20SpeakerAnd look at them now. Look at them now. That's right. We busted out some great shit, huh, soaps, back in the day. We always did because we got the nose for it, you could say. We got the nose for it. We got the heart for it. We got the The courage for it, man. You need a lot of courage for this, especially back in the old days.

1:09:44SpeakerYou needed even more than now. But you still need shit loads to get any of this stuff done. Look at Todd. You know how much courage this guy has? Ever since I met him, I'm like, holy shit, how much courage does this guy have? You know what I mean? He has no fucks to give, Soma.

1:10:02SpeakerStraight out of, I should make Todd like a little meanie right now.

1:10:06BubblemanTodd's last quote like three weeks ago.

1:10:08SpeakerYeah, straight out of prison, right? Straight out.

1:10:10BubblemanStraight out of books. Your last quote on Hashtags was so gangster, you were like, prison's no big deal. Look, you'll get sentenced. I'll send you books. You'll get out. We'll go have a puff.

1:10:23SpeakerYou know, every time I watch Horatio puff, he puffs with shit loads of courage. Just check it out, man. I mean, like, it's obvious.

1:10:32HoratioI try to stay strong and yeah there's a certain addictive personality that just seems to want to burn up material and leave it you know wafting in your wake but it's just your brain ticking and it needs something to chew on or else I once like one night I was pacing so fast I was like leaning into my turns and I'm like oh I gotta go smoke it's the only other way to go fast without using my body.

1:10:59BubblemanAwesome.

1:11:01SpeakerVery good. You know what's amazing? Is Soma and I moved here on the same high times plane from New York back in November of freaking 1995. Cool. No, we moved here when we didn't go home. I went home. 94 is when I smoked on the airplane. We went together. We were on that plane together too. We were in New York going out of there. 94 is when I smoked on the airplane with Jack.

1:11:29SpeakerI had a moment where my girlfriend goes, she's going through her purse and she goes, hey hon, do you remember that ounce of pot that was missing? I went, yeah. She was like, we're on the plane. She's like, I just found it. And I was like, right now? Those were the days. Those were the days when you could do that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was my first, my first time coming to Amsterdam and I was like, why, why?

1:11:49SpeakerAnd I'm only surrounded by another 150 high-tax people on the plane.

1:11:54BubblemanYeah, but walking into Shipple that first time and then just walking through customs and not even being looked at, like the dude's just like looking at his shoe.

1:12:02SpeakerHey, I was at Shipple yesterday, it's crazy. The security level is like DEFCON 9. Crazy, man.

1:12:10BubblemanWhat are they doing?

1:12:11SpeakerX-raying everything? They open all your carry-on and they swab it. For what? Why? What happened? That's what was happening there lately. I don't know. Swabbing is bombs, guys.

1:12:25BubblemanShit. I don't mind when they X-ray my shit. They X-rayed my rig last time I came in. My mothership and my D-nail, everything in the case. He's like, what is that? And I'm like, it's my rig.

1:12:36SpeakerSwabbing stuff with this new age... Technology is draconian kind of, you know what I mean? Yeah, I went under scrutiny with my denail last time in Europe for Spanibus too because I had the glass rigged, all the shit, and I get it. It looks a little odd. You too.

1:12:53BubblemanWhere did they scrutinize you? In Holland or where did you fly through?

1:12:58SpeakerWell, we did double. We went Netherlands to Spain, Spain back to the Netherlands, and it was leaving out of... But you know what? It was after the guy sadly drove into the cliff that they scrutinized me going out of Barcelona. So people were nervous. Perhaps it wasn't D-Nail to blame. I'm not trying to give them a hard time. But, you know, just the coil, the wire. And then I had an inverter with me, too, because, you know, the problems we had.

1:13:23SpeakerYeah, so I was packing.

1:13:25BubblemanI know it all too well. They looked at it in Germany and the guy was just like, what is it? And I was like, it's a bong.

1:13:33SpeakerAnd he was just like, it's a bong.

1:13:36BubblemanYou shouldn't say it. Get arrested for saying it. Wrong word, sir. No, I didn't get arrested. It is what it is. I just listened. I'm a federal user. It's a clean unit. I haven't used it here. And he literally, the minute I said it, he just looked at me in disbelief. Like I was like Luke Skywalker going, these are not the droids you're looking for.

1:13:57SpeakerAnd he just went away. Well, that's good. Yeah.

1:14:05BubblemanHe just went away.

1:14:08SpeakerWe should smoke to that, honestly, because that is a pleasant thing to have happen.

1:14:13BubblemanYeah, especially in Germany where they don't fuck around. Just ask Crystal Richard when they took his blood.

1:14:19SpeakerYeah, man. They do it in Belgium, too. They do that shit with the blood. Taking blood in Belgium? Who knows where else they do it these days.

1:14:27BubblemanYou always talk about draconian. Look, I don't give a fuck if you swab my shit at the airport, but if you start breaking my blood-skin barrier, we're going to have an issue.

1:14:37SpeakerGuys, wait a minute. It's like shit. The other day in America, I can't remember exactly where it was, but this family, this mother, father, and child were traveling and there was a roadblock and the father said, look, I know my rights. You have no right to search me. I didn't break any laws. I don't want to be searched. And because he said he didn't want to be searched, they ended up arresting him and taking his kid, child services, took his kid for at least the meantime.

1:15:06SpeakerAnd that's just refusing a... Mark's coughing. You know, though, I've got to say, as someone who lives in California, it really does not feel like a police state in California. One of the reasons I've always been enthusiastic about living there is because on the East Coast, they're looking for your inspection sticker, and, like, a cop sits around the corner waiting for every little thing you do to trip.

1:15:34SpeakerIn California, it just isn't like that. You don't feel that presence of the... In L.A., you've got to be doing something wrong or be a hot girl to get a cop's attention.

1:15:43BubblemanYeah, Vancouver is much the same, and because I'm lucky enough to be a part of the MMAR program... It's all across Canada for me. Even when I go to sketchy Bible Belt places or to the East Coast, I fly in with my rig. It can be dirty. I fly in with my hash, my product. I'm not worried about it. I can cross any provincial border and not even think about it.

1:16:06BubblemanI've got my license copy on me, and it's just as simple. I've never had to show it. I don't even think about it. It's as though I live in a non-prohibition country, like at all. It's just not. I smoke bong rips at the airport. I openly pull my D-nail out at parks and have large sessions at places that people go for lookouts and stuff. D-420K and I had a mad session there right after we got pulled over by the cop and ticketed.

1:16:34BubblemanThat was kind of an interesting day. Mark is having a hell of a problem today coming and going, isn't he?

1:16:43BubblemanHe's coming and going, coming and going.

1:16:45HoratioWell, other Mark, I'd say one, because I remember when I first met you and I'm like, why does he just sit down like an invisible man and begin puffing and everyone just ignores him? What the fuck is going on? And... And then like I started to get into it and I started doing it myself and I'm like, if you act like it's legal and you behave like a normal person, nobody can see you because you don't have this cloud of sketchiness.

1:17:12HoratioIt's just like, you just see a person and you're like, I don't want to get in his business, I'll end up wrong. And it's true, we'll all whip out papers, but it's the nonchalant, relaxed, it's basically in a free world, no one would care, but it's only because it's illegal, everyone's looking, looking, and if you act clean, They can't see it. Oh, it must be cold today.

1:17:31HoratioThere's so much vapor coming out of those guys' mouths. They just think the best of anything you do.

1:17:39SpeakerYou know, one of the things I do, I go to this sauna, and they have this salt room where they spray salt every 10 minutes. And I'm in my robe, and I go in there, and I take this with me. And if it's crowded in there, I just wait until they spray the stuff. I think of people. Nobody hears me. Nobody realizes me. It just smells like the essence of a flower.

1:18:02BubblemanAs a photographer, that was a beautiful photo that I would have taken had I been standing behind your monitor when Todd took the draw on the joint and Soma was holding up his vaporizer. It felt like it was nostalgic, but it was now. It was post-stalgic.

1:18:20SpeakerIt's your weekend.

1:18:24SpeakerSo when I started doing videos with Mark and we'd be out there in the open, in the park, just blazing, it would, you know, at first it would stress me out a little bit. But because where I come from, we can't do that here. The cops would probably beat us up because it's RCMP and all that kind of stuff. They would really harass the guy. But we have our papers and all that.

1:18:47SpeakerThey know me here so that they wouldn't harass me like that. But it was definitely an experience getting used to that. Just going and filming with Mark. Because I'd go visit with Mark and go, hey, let's go film a puff session. We'll go here. Oh, okay, let's go here. We'd go eat and then we'd sit right outside of the restaurant on the bench and just get ripped.

1:19:07SpeakerStart dabbing it up. Everywhere we went. People would be walking by and kind of fucking rubbernecking and Doing the whole stretch. You want to talk? We'd offer them a rip. Sometimes they'd sit down and have a rip with us. Sometimes they wouldn't. Sometimes they'd get a little bit of education as to why we're doing it and with our rights and everything. People walk away a little bit enlightened.

1:19:29SpeakerIt's pretty funny. Never been a negative.

1:19:33BubblemanYeah, there's been some amazing experiences. I'll tell you, at the time, Johnny B and I landed in Toronto and pulled out the bong and started puffing. And then people were walking by and they were like, what? And then they were like, can I have a puff? And we're like, sure, have a puff. And people walking by would have a puff. And this chick stopped. She was a firefighter from Chicago.

1:19:53BubblemanShe was like laying into her story about how she was on her way to a 9-11 event for firemen. You know, some sort of an anniversary where they all go and sort of celebrate the fallen heroes that lost their lives in that terrible event. But it was a neat way to meet people, I'll tell you, and it's that normalization that I've talked about in the past, and I think it's all something that, you know, we are unanimous about.

1:20:20BubblemanNot necessarily becoming obnoxious, not, you know, but becoming normal. It's just a normalization. So, you know, in a place like Vancouver... It's getting more and more normal to smell the smell of herb, to see people puffing, to see people sharing a join or a pipe. It's just not really a problem.

1:20:45BubblemanYes, ATN, please come back in.

1:20:49SpeakerYou guys, I'm going to bounce. I'm going to have some breakfast and I've got to take care of some things.

1:20:56SpeakerSomeone just said, Good to see you, Aaron. Give Don a hug. Hey, Aaron. Say hello. I said hi earlier, but we were on mute. Hey, Don. Hi. How are you? I'm good. You good? Yeah, really good, really good. I'll be back the end of the week. I'll come see you. Yeah, do that. Do that. Where are you guys? Are you guys in Spain? No, we're at the Sensi.

1:21:19SpeakerWe're above the Haas Museum. We're going to go down there probably in the last hour and give people a little tour of the Haas Museum. Nice. Oh, nice. My wife ran into Jesse on Albert Kite with Lexus, bro. She's huge. Sorry. Fucking so, man. I hope we don't get to find them. No, we're not. That shit cost 5,000 euros. Sorry. Let me hit mute. I'm really sorry.

1:21:51SpeakerHold on. Take it easy, guys. Good luck with the brand wear.

1:21:59BubblemanTake it easy, Don and Aaron. Thanks for coming in, guys.

1:22:02SpeakerLater, Mark. Thanks for having us. Peace, world.

1:22:05BubblemanPeace, brother.

1:22:09BubblemanFun in the sun. 691 people, 688 people, and maybe we'll reach 700 in the near future. Should we do a ball group?

1:22:22Etienne FontanAlways a bong rip.

1:22:24BubblemanAlways a bong rip. How about this ticket, Mark Scaldone, that I just found in my drawer? An unused ticket.

1:22:34BubblemanWhat is it for? It's a fish show. A fish show in Montana from 1995.

1:22:43Dr Mark ScialdoneWarming up for Harry Adams?

1:22:45BubblemanThat was the Harry Adams Fieldhouse, actually. Oh, you see the price on the ticket?

1:22:54Dr Mark ScialdoneI can't see it. What does it say?

1:22:56Bubbleman$18.50. Wow. That's a good price.

1:23:03Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, that's what a tall boy above the light will run these days. Yeah, no shit. So there was some pretty interesting... I wanted to...

1:23:19SpeakerWait, Mark.

1:23:20Dr Mark ScialdoneI wanted to mention something about the mold thing because I was cutting in and out before and I didn't really catch all of Aaron's discussion. It's difficult, especially in Michigan and certain environments, to put in a sealed bag and not get mold to form because the spores, which are the seeds, the mold spores, Are everywhere. They're everywhere. They're ubiquitous. They're part of the just world we live in.

1:23:53Dr Mark ScialdoneYou can't avoid that at all. And so, yeah, the flower with mold spores and if the flower is still moist and if any biological specimen, whether it's a slice of bread or a nugget of really good herb, if you put it in a sealed vessel in the dark, Uh, or a bag where it's going to trap water. It's going to form mold, so it doesn't surprise me that all of the samples basically came back foul.

1:24:26Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't think that that means that the flowers were any good. I think they were compromised on sample handling. So, um, Mold spores are avoid those. You can't avoid. So when you have mold, the real issue is your moisture level. So again, you can put just about any biological specimen. If you took wet newspaper and you put it into a sealed Ziploc bag, you go back in a couple days, you're going to have all kinds of stuff growing in there.

1:25:03Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it doesn't surprise me that these things fell at all.

1:25:05Etienne FontanSo do you recommend desiccant in a bag? I know there are. Different types of regulators. One of the big problems that we had early on that we had to do is people would take a piece of orange or lemon and rind and they would put it in a bag thinking it would regulate the humidity. What they didn't realize is that they had introduced a whole other level of mold and spores into your cannabis now that caused problems.

1:25:41Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, and the moisture, again, is usually the culprit whenever you get biological fouling. The moisture is there. The microbes are already there. You can't keep it from happening. I mean, you can't somehow, like people have asked me before whether or not in the BHO process or in the CO2 extraction process, is that process robust chemically enough to kill We're going to talk about how to get rid of any spores or to kill any mold or fungal contaminant that may have already started before the extraction process.

1:26:19Dr Mark ScialdoneThe spores themselves, again, are like seeds. They're almost bulletproof. I don't think there's a whole lot that's known on whether or not the extraction process actually denatures or makes the spores less viable to take hold. Even after that, as soon as you take the hash out of the machine, it's going to come in contact with spores anyway. We live in a microbial world, and so we just have to be able to manage microbial contamination from the point of view of something that's practical.

1:26:55Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't think that any of those flower samples were contaminated when the growers picked them, but from the moment they're picked and the moment curing starts to happen, Microbial contamination is like a race with the clock. It's going to happen. And any of us who smoked weed from the 70s knows that moldy, smelly weed that we used to get It was mostly, again, mold contaminated. We've smoked a lot of moldy weed in our day, and I think now our palate becomes much more sophisticated because we're using better techniques and just better, more flavorful strains that we just find those moldy, old weeds just very, very unpalatable at this point, and unhealthy.

1:27:44SpeakerDr. Absolutely. Dr. I would like to say, you know, good

1:27:49Etienne FontanThere's a desiccant. Would you like both the packs or something like that? Because there needs to be something that people need to be told to put into their bags to protect the humidity and also protect from that. People have to transport and move it. Would everybody agree? Would the packs be the best option available?

1:28:09Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's difficult to say. It's difficult to say because remember the plant itself is a reservoir of moisture. And so just as it's giving up moisture, again, I think we were talking earlier about They're about a property to his hygroscopicity, which is the ability for the compounds and the waxes to absorb water from ambient air. And so again, there's an equilibration process that's happening during the curing and during the drying process where basically the bud and the flower is losing water that is just part of the natural drying and curing process.

1:28:42Dr Mark ScialdoneI think the problem becomes is when that moisture level is Thank you for joining us.

1:29:12Dr Mark ScialdoneOn stuff that's been in bags, I don't know if there's any uniqueness about the container, but certainly when you're not allowing that water and that moisture to escape and it can build up in there, usually that's typically where you see microbial fouling.

1:29:28SpeakerOddly enough, I think that if you cure weed cannabis properly, it actually will rot before it molds. It almost has antimicrobial, which hemp does have in its stem. I mean, part of the whole horse bedding industry is part of the antimicrobial elements in cannabis in the plant makeup that they use for bedding.

1:29:50SpeakerBut a lot of people are actually just taking moist too early.

1:29:55Dr Mark ScialdoneLet's not confuse bacteriostatic with antimicrobial itself. If cannabis was antimicrobial, we'd have big piles of cannabis littering the earth. Of course it degrades. It can't be antimicrobial. What you're saying is that All these compounds and oils are batches different than There's two different things. One keeps bacteria from growing in the other area. I'm sorry. Dr.

1:30:33SpeakerThere's something about the way that cannabis just keeps really well, obviously, because we've had buds for a long time. If you dry it and cure it, it actually is pretty stable for a plant, which I mean is remarkable. I may have misspoke. I'm a little stoned. But I think you could better explain what the hell causes that to happen. Why do buds keep so well?

1:30:55Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, because the compounds in and of themselves are what are called antioxidants. And so both CBD and THC have phenolic groups that are basically reactive oxygen scavengers. And so those inhibit the normal degradation process and aging process as Well, and what is so unique in its medicinal properties is because it has the right balance of lipophilicity, meaning that it's fat soluble, but they're pot soluble. And that almost sounds like a conundrum, but Mother Nature basically made these compounds to be fat soluble antioxidants that also have very wonderful anti-inflammatory Thank you so much for joining us.

1:31:54Dr Mark ScialdoneWe'll be starting in about a minute.

1:32:18Dr Mark ScialdoneIn the action of cannabinoids, and again, we've posted some articles on the Facebook page on the interaction between the terpenes with the cannabinoid receptors in the cell and how it all works together, which is why you're not seeing this activity. So there really is something that's unique about the, we'll call it the ensemble effect, right Todd? The ensemble effect that's in cannabis, that all these compounds together are working together in a way that provides the beneficial, what humans know that it works.

1:33:03SpeakerMay I ask a question to everybody then? It's come up over and over. Do people here believe that CBD of and by itself is or is not psychoactive?

1:33:17SpeakerI would love to hear from everybody on this, honestly, because my position is that CBD is a bit psychoactive, so I'll just start with that. The scientific thought is that it is not.

1:33:29HoratioI think I've already talked about it. It kind of changes what psychoactive means because if you can register medicinal benefit in your head, you're going to consider that an effect that is within your psychology. So it just really opens up what psychoactive is. So it's pretty much people who are more aware of medicinal effects. Would recognize it as psychoactive, but people who are looking for their left brain to get fucked up as a sign of what cannabis is out to do, they won't consider it that way.

1:33:58HoratioSo it goes back to left brain, one-sided views on things.

1:34:05Etienne FontanI get a reaction, no doubt. The other night I was just up late writing and dealing with stuff and I needed to go to sleep and I smoked some CBD and I can definitely tell a reaction. I can feel it. Over on my left side of my lobe and definitely brought me, helped me relax to where, you know, there's definitely something happening there, but I agree with Horatio.

1:34:28Etienne FontanIt's more of a redefinition of what we're talking about because it's a different reaction than when I take like THC or a dab or something like that, but I straight dabbed this CBD the other day, the other night, and it worked. Yeah, I was able to go to sleep, so something's happening. Something is happening medicinally because I know that, you know, we've talked about ratios of, you know, CBD to TC and the effect, but for me to come down the other night to go to sleep with just a straight CBD actually worked, but I did feel a psychoactive effect, nothing to the point and anywhere close to the high I get from cannabis in itself.

1:35:14BubblemanHey, I wanted to welcome Samantha. We haven't seen Samantha in quite a while. Welcome to the 50th episode, Samantha. How have you been?

1:35:24SamanthaHi. Hello. Can you hear me all right? Yeah, I'm good thanks. I've been sort of hiding away a bit recently. I had some bad news a couple of months ago about my knee and that I'm looking at needing a knee replacement. So to be honest, after my history, that was probably a massive kick in the face. So I've just kind of been dealing with that really in there.

1:35:50SamanthaBut, you know, I'm a lover, I'm a fighter, I'm not going to get me down. And I've got cannabis, so I've kind of upped my intake and getting on with sort of getting fit, getting healthy. And, yeah, just, yeah, staying high as fuck, to be honest. That's the thing that's working the most at the minute.

1:36:07BubblemanNice. There's no doubt that it lifts the spirit.

1:36:13SamanthaExactly. I was listening the other week and I very much agreed with what Todd said about a little bliss goes a long way and it sure as hell does.

1:36:23BubblemanAbsolutely. Well, you know, we were talking about this the other day. I was talking with some friends just in regards to, you know, the powerfulness of cannabis as a medicine that not only does it offer the healing, not only does it offer this improved quality of life and sometimes absolutely saving of a life, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:37:03BubblemanI mean, wow, that's like the opposite of being terrified and being poisoned by like radiation or chemotherapy. It seems like the THC and the cannabis option is on such a more positive note.

1:37:20SamanthaYeah, definitely, for sure. And, you know, when I went to the doctors, they, you know, straight away, you know, do you want some painkillers for that? And I was like, no, no, I do not. I'll just, I'll just stick with my cannabis. Thank you very much. Because, yeah, I know, you know, it's going to work and

1:37:38SpeakerYou like it?

1:37:38SamanthaIt's just a mental help, you know, when you've got to deal with, you know, stuff. It's just great. It's just all-round. It's perfect for everything. So, yeah, I mix it in with my morning smoothies with coconut oil, and that gets me set for a very good day.

1:37:54BubblemanNice. I do the coconut oil myself in the morning, every morning, and usually at night as well. I'll take a nice little spoonful. It's great stuff. Then there's Soma's Rock.

1:38:10SpeakerYeah, I was just going to say before that, like, now, if you're 11 in America, you can do oxycodone, but you can't do cannabis.

1:38:19BubblemanYeah, that's insane. Like, think of how nuts, and poor baby MJ, wasn't she on, like, benzos? That's like, imagine the withdrawal of going off of benzos.

1:38:33HoratioWell, and not even being able to speak and going off benzos.

1:38:38BubblemanOh, my gosh. Yeah, it's just scary stuff. Well, thank goodness for cannabis that we have the access. It grows in our backyards. It grows in our closets. It grows on our decks. It grows in our garages. Geez, it grows everywhere, really.

1:38:56SpeakerMan, there's a lot of weed warriors out there that are willing to get on the front line and have been on the front line for decades. All of their lives up and, you know, it's easier now for people and those guys that have been out there pushing and helping and everything, taking the risk, fucking good on all of you, man. Thanks.

1:39:16Etienne FontanYeah, there's thousands and thousands of unsung names and heroes that have kept strains alive, that have kept the peace, that have kept these genetics in the dark days that we have what we have today because, you know, I've always said this plant You know, it's interesting how this plant is not only exotic, but how its worst to continually to propagate us, to propagate it to make sure that it stays around and alive and look at the diversity that we continue to create, much less that we have access to now.

1:39:56Etienne FontanI mean, we have thousands of varieties. We have at least 1,000 known varieties through the different books and But how many thousands of other varieties are undocumented and how many have died along the way because they weren't properly kept? So much respect to all those along the way because there's thousands of you unsung ones that will never know your names and will never know all of your deeds, but you've helped perpetuate and make this reality a reality, so thank you along the way.

1:40:25BubblemanWe will know their terps.

1:40:30HoratioWe will so know their drink. Oh no, think of all the strains that Don and Aaron didn't think were awesome because they probably didn't smell fruity. I'm like, think of all those lost good old sandalwoods and gooey terps.

1:40:47SpeakerThe terps will be known.

1:40:51BubblemanYeah, for real. Welcome back home, Jeff Mazansky, after serving 21 years of a life sentence for selling What was it? Six pounds of herb? Damn, dude. I was happy to see him get out. It really brought tears to my eyes. That was a good thing. That was a win for the... That's a great injustice, and those people need to be seriously let out. That's just insane to put people in jail for that sort of time.

1:41:26BubblemanWe've got Rick's father, FreeDelisi.com. You can go check that out and sign his petition. He's done 27 years already. Albeit, I think he got caught with a couple of tons or 15 tons, quite a bit more than six pounds. But still, come on. Why do any amount of time for any amount of herb? I don't care if you have 100 tons. It's like if you have 100 tons, great.

1:41:52BubblemanYou're in business. There's a big marketplace out there.

1:41:56Etienne FontanIf you put people in jail for herb, for a plant, you should be in jail.

1:42:01BubblemanYeah, that sounds about right. Fuck yeah. It's a little bit insane.

1:42:10Etienne FontanYeah, I mean, that was the best news of the week was knowing that, you know, he was finally free to see him hug his kids and his loved ones and actually walked free, um, I'm trying to friend him on Facebook, so hopefully we'll get him in here sometime.

1:42:26BubblemanI'd love to have him. I'd love to have him on Hash Church and tell a little bit of his story, share a little bit of his story with us, and just be so thankful. Just give him any exposure and help that we can to his GoFundMe. Obviously, after serving 21 years in prison, he's... You know, it's going to take him a long while before he can get back into the flow of things.

1:42:50BubblemanI can't even imagine, man. That's half my life. Half my life.

1:42:53Etienne FontanWell, I saw a picture of him the other day as he's in a restaurant, and I'm imagining him looking at the restaurant menu and looking at the prices and looking at everything and thinking about what must the price's difference from when he actually went in.

1:43:09BubblemanYeah, and everyone's on a phone staring at a phone. That's probably creepy.

1:43:15BubblemanYou know? Basically, I saw someone post the other day, if the Titanic sank today, this is what it would look like, and all the people in the water were holding up their phones.

1:43:29Etienne FontanYeah, his GoFundMe page, I put on the actual Hash Church Facebook page, so go support him. If you guys have a chance, you know, $5, $10, any little bit helps when a man has been... Behind bars, just show a little love if you can. If you're able to, just know it's out there.

1:43:50BubblemanThat's a big one for sure. Please do join the group Hash Church on Facebook and you can see the link that Etienne is talking about, the GoFundMe for Jeff. And welcome, Tony.

1:44:00TonyHey guys, how's it going?

1:44:07BubblemanIt's going very well on our 50th show. We've had some people from the past come in. We've got Samantha just came in. We haven't seen her in a while. We had Nurse Heather in earlier. Some other folks have come and gone. It's good. We've had a good conversation. Don and Aaron were in here earlier. We were talking about breeding and terpenes and talking about the idea of breeding out terpenes.

1:44:30BubblemanHoratio came back with, we don't have enough terpenes to breed any out. Let's just save all the ones we can get. Both great perspectives, I thought. I love when my perspective isn't that, but then someone can say something, and very nice. What do you got there?

1:44:48TonySpeaking of DNA, there's some DNA here.

1:44:53SpeakerIs it buttery?

1:44:53TonyYeah, I made like a solventless nectar butter.

1:45:03SpeakerOh, right. It goes through the screen? Thank you for watching.

1:45:26TonyIs Todd McCormick got Soma in the U.S. or is Todd McCormick in another country?

1:45:31SpeakerIf I was in the U.S., I'd probably be in Colorado. You'd probably know about it.

1:45:37BubblemanYou'd be at his house. You'd be at Tony's place hitting his mothership right now.

1:45:43TonyI'm actually in Oakland. That's why I asked because I would leave where I'm at and go see you right now.

1:45:48SpeakerWe're in good old Amsterdam in Cincinnati.

1:45:56TonyLovely. That is lovely. Good to see you, Soma. It's been a while.

1:46:01BubblemanYou too.

1:46:05TonyYou look good.

1:46:06BubblemanHe says, hello, Soma. He says, Mr. Cookie was telling me about the amazing sauna space.

1:46:12SpeakerYeah, yeah. I took him there the other day. We ate my candy, and I found him at the end. I found him at the end.

1:46:21TonyYeah, your candy's no joke. It's one of my favorite edibles on the planet, actually.

1:46:26BubblemanYeah, if you actually, if you want to see a good video about the candy, I think, I think that's the one that you eat some when we're in Spain making hash with, oh, was it, was it David and the, and the, oh yeah, the Ripley's Deeds guys?

1:46:44TonyYeah, yeah.

1:46:45BubblemanRight on, those guys are awesome. Man, I'll never forget, Soma showed up with some 26-week flowered sativa.

1:46:53KhalidIs that correct?

1:46:54BubblemanIt was 22 weeks. Okay, 22 weeks still. That's ridiculous. It was awesome. And that candy. And then that's when I was like, you guys all have to leave and I'm going to clean this dry sift. And there was that giant amount of dry sift. Man, Tony left and literally when I came back, I don't know how long I took. Was it five minutes or ten minutes? All I remember was coming back into the room and Tony was just like,

1:47:27TonyYour 10 minutes was my 45 minutes. You know when you start your trip or anything like that and you go into this audio tunnel and what happened was I sat back and my ears were I started to hear like you fussing in the background. There was like a room before a room and Bubble Man locked himself in a room and heard bam, bam, bam, da, da, da, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, da, da, da.

1:47:55SpeakerHe was like playing around with screens or something.

1:47:58TonyNext thing I knew I was like in some other fucked up world. My audio like went inverted and it was like I was in a fantasy world. And it was like I fell asleep and I was just tripping out on this like candy.

1:48:11SpeakerThat's how you heal. That's how you heal.

1:48:16TonyNext thing I know, I'm like woken up by Bubble Man. He's like, hey, check this out. I have three piles in the other room with two screens. He goes, this pile is all 99%, and this pile is this one, and this pile is this one. And I was like, I was still like, I just started my journey on your candy. So my brain was so out of it.

1:48:38TonyI was like, what do you mean? What? What do you mean three piles? How did you do that? I'm just so confused. A bubble man did. It was all magic.

1:48:51BubblemanAh, Spain. Always good fun in Spain. Hey, I want to welcome Khalid back to Hash Church, dude. What a great, wonderful drop you gave last week. I appreciated it. Or the week before, I can't even remember what it was now. Was it last week?

1:49:06KhalidLast week. I think it was last week. Thanks for having me on. It was great. It was great being on with Ben, too. That was awesome timing.

1:49:13BubblemanDude, absolutely. Now Todd's sitting with Soma.

1:49:17KhalidI know. Todd's having an amazing trip, it looks like.

1:49:22BubblemanTodd's amazing trip is called his life.

1:49:26TonyThe life of Todd McCormick. A normal run around the city.

1:49:30SpeakerGo see Selma first. And then I go everywhere else. That's really how it goes.

1:49:39TonyYou know Todd's really popular when people come up to me and say, hey, you're like a YouTube celebrity. Do you know Todd? And I'm like, yeah.

1:49:48SpeakerWell, that's fucked up.

1:49:50TonyAnd I was like, yeah, I know Todd. And they're like, man, that guy's everywhere. I'm like, yeah, he is.

1:50:00BubblemanSo yeah, that was a good conversation we had last time just in regards. I love the opening up of the footprints, the mildews in water hash, the mystery oils in different concentrated gases, and any other sort of bad spray or radioactive nutrients that are being used or low quality anything that's found its way into that product before it gets to be finalized and concentrated. Anytime you use something, you know, damn near religiously the way we do, you can call it habitual, but every day it's a ritual.

1:50:38BubblemanThat's In a Kamozi in the song Red Eyes. If you want to have some enjoyment, feel free to Google that. In a Kamozi in the song Red Eyes. And it's actually on a Guru album, the song Red Eyes. I believe it's one of his Jazzmataz albums. Guru. Great song. Ashwin and John Rosen. Oh, I asked you to join, of course.

1:51:00SpeakerSorry, buddy. I didn't mean to interrupt. Oh, sorry.

1:51:03BubblemanHey, you're not interrupting shit.

1:51:05SpeakerYou guys are our entertainers. He comes over with, like, the insane stash, to be quite honest with you. And he's like, what do you want to try? And honestly, as a stone, you're like, um, all of it.

1:51:16BubblemanEverything. All mixed in. Could you put it all in one bowl? In a row?

1:51:23Etienne FontanStart at the left and work our way to the right.

1:51:26SpeakerJust the buds alone. Yeah, and then the hash, and just, uh, sorry. Having a stoner moment.

1:51:34HoratioYou can see how happy they are. Their shoulders are all up, their fingers are all twiddly, they're all, they're gonna run out of butane and fire.

1:51:42BubblemanWell, it's definitely not 10 in the morning where they are. No. No, no.

1:51:46SpeakerNo. We live in the future. When I look at this panel, everybody goes, everybody pushes, go, go, go. Like the bliss molecule is activated.

1:51:59TonyThe bliss molecule. The bliss molecule. That's going to fucking find its way on a package real fast.

1:52:07BubblemanThe bliss molecule. Absolutely. That is, you know. Anandamide.

1:52:12SpeakerAnandamide. Somebody just created it. Anandamide is a make-up of two words. It's supposed to mean internal and bliss. Bliss.

1:52:22BubblemanAnd just very similar to THC in its molecular structure. Anandamide? Yeah, look at it.

1:52:30SpeakerIt actually, they discovered that, yeah, yeah, it registers with the same receptors. Pretty groovy stuff, man. Yeah, well, everybody should watch The Scientist on YouTube. It's free. It's a wonderful documentary about the man who discovered THC, CBD, everything else groovy.

1:52:55BubblemanDiscovered it in a lab, because I'm certain some other guy discovered it first in another way.

1:53:01SpeakerThe Addams 9 compound is what you're referring to and actually you could read about... No, no, no.

1:53:05BubblemanI'm talking about some dude that found weed and smoked it like literally like 10,000 years ago or something. That motherfucker.

1:53:14SpeakerHere's what I think. I think that like in the beginning humans were like looking for something good to eat and they saw some really ripe cannabis buds full of seeds and they started like eating some of the seeds out. And then they got some resin on their fingers, and they started cleaning it off with their teeth. And then it was getting a little chilly, and they go, after they took all the seeds off, there was no seeds left.

1:53:41SpeakerAfter they collected them all, they had this stuff that looked like it would burn good. And they started fires with it, and they were sitting near it, and the next thing they know, they felt like wheat fields.

1:53:51BubblemanHow about that poor bastard that was the first one to rub resin in his eyes? That sucks.

1:53:56SpeakerThat sucks.

1:54:12SpeakerThat was a moment. Visine don't help that, man.

1:54:15BubblemanAll I know is that was probably where like trolling your friends started when all the other dudes were eating the seeds, looking at him roll around on the ground. They probably started giving him funny uggs and grunts and ha ha ha, you dumb shit.

1:54:29TonyThere might have been a good 50 to 100 years where somebody, that's all they did was put it in their eye.

1:54:35SpeakerIt took him a while to just eat it. Evolution was a slow process, right?

1:54:48TonyI'm so glad we have iPhones.

1:54:57BubblemanThat's a good thing for certain.

1:54:59SpeakerSo much better than the whole rubbing it on your eye part of humanity. We had to get up a transdermal abilities, guys. It had to have happened.

1:55:11Etienne FontanPeople, what we're saying is do not put this shit in your eyes. That's all we're saying here. We've all made that mistake at some point. Don't do it.

1:55:21SpeakerAnd you know, it's funny. I always say that to myself for decades now, but when I'm managing sometimes, I forget it and I touch my eye again.

1:55:30BubblemanMan, I'll tell you. The best way to clean your hands after manicuring if you haven't been wearing gloves is to order pizza. To clean your hands of it, huh?

1:55:47SpeakerNice greasy pizza.

1:55:49BubblemanYeah, and then you end up eating that shit and end up like awake 32 hours later wondering what happened. It was the Terps. The Terp Champagne, Horatio, when do I get to have more? Like, I would order a bottle of it. I want some Terp Champagne.

1:56:07HoratioEvery time I give you any, the entire country gets testy and thinks that's what I want to do for a living. And you know everything I do is hard and I did it right before I saw you and... I, you know, someone else is like, no, he's going to do the Terp Champagne. What about the suppositories? Like, there's so many directions that I have to go. I've got to.

1:56:32HoratioWait a second. Did you say terpositories?

1:56:35SpeakerNo. I, like, I reposted one on Facebook today, but I didn't really read the status. Yeah. Was that the book, Shoma? Huh? Yeah. Yeah. I reposted one on Facebook today.

1:56:52BubblemanI posted those three in the All Things Terpenes. If anyone wants to learn a little bit more about terpenes, I know you got the bump from Facebook there, Khalid, but it would be great to hear about what you're doing with terpenes and how you're playing around in the All Things Terpene group and here.

1:57:09KhalidYeah, so in our exploration towards...

1:57:14TonyIt's kind of like, I don't know, I thought I heard a note. It sounded like Bubble Man asked for a terp champagne, and then I heard a really long answer, and I think that was a no.

1:57:28BubblemanThat's okay. He says, I got terps.

1:57:33TonyYeah, next Friday, Bubble Man will have terps in his hand.

1:57:39HoratioTerps! That's a different recipe than champagne, but go for it. It'll just eat your gaskets on your... On your carbonation machine, I haven't tried that. I don't put the non-polar oils in. But these are alcohol turps meant for champagne. In case anyone's getting inspired to throw some... Hydrosols? No. Different. Hydrosols, that's different. That would be like trying to make turp champagne out of bubble water. But that's not the same process.

1:58:10HoratioAnd if you try that, you'll also explode your carbonation machine.

1:58:16TonyHe's trying to give us warning not to make

1:58:21HoratioYou can make terp champagne. There's just lots of mistakes. If you try to do a drop into it and shake it up, it will eventually eat your plastic. If you use those terps, if you use hydrosol and try to fill the bottle, you can't carbonate it. If you put a little bit of hydrosol in, like if you got clean bubble water, have a good afternoon. Get your carbonation machine, fill it up, and then add your bubble water.

1:58:46HoratioIt won't be terp champagne, but it'll be Herbie Water, and it'll be good. But, um, Terp Champagne, Tony, you should know what to do. You need the, you need alcohol terpenes to do it.

1:58:58TonyOkay.

1:58:59HoratioSo that they're water soluble.

1:59:02TonyOkay.

1:59:04BubblemanThere it was. Horatio just gave away a little gem for the 669 people watching.

1:59:10TonySo Friday, you will have some Terp Champagne.

1:59:14BubblemanWhy, is Horatio going to make me some?

1:59:16TonyNo, I'm going to make some. He just gave me all secrets.

1:59:19HoratioHe just gave me all these secrets. That's all a smart man needs to know. Everyone else is like, what the fuck? But Tony knows what he needs to know, and you can do it on open air.

1:59:30BubblemanSo what kind of terps you got there, Khalid?

1:59:37KhalidSo we just...

1:59:39TonyI think I'm going to do a whole New Year's of terp champagne. I like that, terp champagne.

1:59:47BubblemanAll right, go ahead.

1:59:48TonyI'm not going to steal your idea, Horatio. I'm just playing with you.

1:59:55TonyI think that's a signature move.

1:59:58BubblemanI like it. It's a special thing that should at least be at celebrations. I heard that people are doing cannabis bars at weddings. And, I mean, man, you pull out the terp champagne at a wedding, and that's like... That's the shit right there. There's your market right there. Weddings.

2:00:18HoratioI've got to source big magnum champagne bottles or micro champagne bottles. It depends how much turps you've got. Both. Both for sure.

2:00:26BubblemanMicro and massive for the baller.

2:00:32TonyThe magnum.

2:00:36TonyYes. You can call it the supernova magnum. Just a giant, huge... 27 gallon bottle.

2:00:46HoratioWe could totally top the hip hop game. I don't see why Louis XIV should be $1,400 of fucking cooked up booze when if you can make, you know, imagine making like true skunk number one terp champagne. That's a $3,000 bottle easily for the amount of material that you have to feed it.

2:01:04Etienne FontanIf you can find Louis XIII for whatever you just said, good luck.

2:01:10Speaker$5,000 for a bottle.

2:01:13Etienne FontanAnd in a crystal fucking decanter. But it would be amazing to have your turf champagne in a crystal decanter.

2:01:23TonyLet's do that. We should start planning New Year's now. And we should do it in, maybe we should do it in California since there's a lot of people on the chat.

2:01:35BubblemanNo, come to Whistler. Come to Whistler BC and do it. We'll have a blast.

2:01:41TonyFor New Year's? Mm-hmm. Well, could Horatio make Terp Champagne?

2:01:48BubblemanWell, I'm not going to answer for Horatio. He's so bloody busy, and that's like New Year's is right around the corner.

2:01:53TonyWell, I want to plan it now because he's so busy.

2:01:55HoratioThat's the only way. Like, that's what I mean. I'm like, I can't just make it because people say it. Well, I'm like, New Year's what, Convergence? Oh, I'll blow you motherfuckers out.

2:02:04SpeakerAll right.

2:02:06BubblemanAll right, so, listen. The... The people have asked for Khalid. They say we should stop talking over Khalid. It's his turn. Let the fucking guy talk. They have talked. They have spoken. The people have spoken. Khalid, the floor is yours, my friend. Tell us about your Terps.

2:02:29KhalidYeah, so we just started with the idea of getting clean solvents, and from there we wanted to Try and find, last week we were talking about clean VHL and as far as what we understood kind of to be the industry standard was the distilled cannabinoids or what most people, the biggest brand in the industry is the clear. And so as we started trying to learn that process and understand about separating cannabinoids, we just kind of stumbled upon grabbing fractions of terpenes And obviously when you're working with a dirty solvent to begin with, there's no terpenes to grab because a lot of the light volatiles are mixed in there.

2:03:15KhalidSo what we started doing was taking our product. It's a CO2 oil that's a full spectrum oil, and we call it raw CO2. But it has about terpene retention, so it gives us something really good to start playing with. And so we've successfully from there been pulling out 10% terpenes by weight. So If we throw in 200 grams, we're pulling out about 20 grams.

2:03:44KhalidI hesitate to call it a terpene because a lot of people are then like, what, terpene? It's more of a terpene slurry. A terpene slurpee? Yeah, kind of. It comes off in three parts generally. Usually I get the lighter volatiles. And then I start to get a little bit heavier volatiles, which have kind of more of that traditional perfume color. The ones I brought with me, I don't know how well you can see them, but this stuff's pretty clear, and this is like the lighter volatiles.

2:04:15KhalidThis is from some Blue Dream. I've also done it with some Grapefruit Kush and a couple other strains, but it's pretty consistent where it's that light, clear stuff, and it's real beautiful. It's nice to... Put on a dabber and just kind of like wear. I've given it to lots of people to try it in that respect.

2:04:35Dr Mark ScialdoneDo you know what compounds are in there?

2:04:39KhalidI recently dropped off just these lighter ones to be tested and then also some of these. So I hope to have results back soon. But these ones come off, you can't... It's kind of getting washed out the color, but this is a real like blue-green color. Maybe if I stick something behind it. It's kind of a heavy, dirty color, but this is coming out of a CO2 oil that we made with SFE-grade CO2, and it comes off close to where the cannabinoids start to separate.

2:05:15KhalidAnd I don't see Jeff on here, but Jeff Church and I were talking recently, and he had thought... Right after this, there's a thicker constituent that's blue and almost gelatinous that comes off. And he was saying he had talked with someone from a lab and they had said it was azulene, I believe is what he called it. And I get a lot of that off of both, whether it's a hydrocarbon crude or a CO2 crude that I'm working with.

2:05:43KhalidBut just that the terps are exclusively to the Thank you for joining us today.

2:06:12KhalidThank you for watching.

2:06:37BubblemanYeah. I love, what I have done on a few occasions is I've taken some of Horatio's terpenes that he left here and I'll go into my steam room and I'll have like a pineapple express steam. Just dropping like one little drop of this shit on the top of the pan of my steamer. Holy Christ. The first time I did it, it shocked me how strong it came off because I'm used to it with eucalyptus which is what I thought was pretty much one of the strongest Essential oils for aromatherapy.

2:07:08BubblemanEucalyptus is a real grab you by the nuts one, but I'll tell you, the Terps from that Pineapple Express were pretty grab you by the nuts as well, and it just satiated my very being afterwards. I could taste it on my lips, and I could like, it was just... Everywhere. Pretty nice.

2:07:26HoratioNew Year's Eve steam dab session with terps on the steamer. Is that the new modulation wave?

2:07:33BubblemanAbsolutely. And not only that, we can rent out the cold room at the Barefoot Bistro where we have to go in and it's like minus 40 degrees. And we can do a little like terpene experiment in the uber, uber cold, maybe even a little bit of dry sifting.

2:07:49KhalidIt makes a great beard conditioner too, just pure terps in the beard. There you go.

2:07:56BubblemanAll these different things, all these, I think that those are the safer things to dwell into like perfumes and such because once we start getting into the actual inhalation of it, it just becomes a little more like we're out of our We're not really sure of the effects.

2:08:41KhalidYou know, clear like how this is, but then he was pulling out that real heavy dark constituent, and then it pretty much still looked like the end product, and I really felt like that was just a great thing for people in general to see how, you know, it's real easy for us without a base understanding to look at something and think that it's pure, and that was just such a great example because it did, it was clean like water, and what he was pulling out of it was something so heavy and dark And for us, like, when we pull out what we think is maybe that Azulene, we're pulling it out of a bright red oil with 10% terpenes, and the terpenes are generally thought of to be clear, so as we started pulling off this teal-looking constituent, it became very clear, you know, that that is obviously something that has the potential to be either left in the concentrated cannabinoids or to be pulled out, depending on which way you're going, because it is a It's not something that's tested for specifically because it's not a terp and because it's not a cannabinoid and because it's not a solvent.

2:09:49KhalidIt's sitting somewhere in between in this odd realm where, yeah, maybe it is an organic constituent, but I'm getting out such a heavy concentration that you start looking at it where it could be making up as much of a half a percent or one percent of the total base of the... Of the compounds, so, you know, you're getting pretty high contamination levels, if it is a contaminant.

2:10:12KhalidI know with like Azulene, Jeff was saying, he thought it was from the chemist that he was talking to one of the things that acts as an expectorant or a... Polar expectorant? Yeah, and he said it aids with, like, nucleation. It would be something that, like, for people making shatter and other things, that it would be one of those compounds that acts towards breaking that up. Also, the stuff in your lungs as it sits.

2:10:38KhalidI see Mark nodding his head. Maybe he, Dr. Mark.

2:10:42Dr Mark ScialdoneActually, it was interesting because Jim Frayer, who's a very well-known cannabis chemist and highly respected cannabis and hash maker... I brought up this as being essentially a component of the blue pigment. Let me back up and say that it is a C10, you know, azulene itself. Some of the azulenes can be substituted, but the C10 itself essentially does have Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:11:35Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're going to talk a little bit about the color in a very, very large sense. I mean, just think about the one drop of fluid coloring that turns that entire thing blue. I mean, so the point is that, yes, azulenes and these are what are called highly conjugated systems, which are responsible for some of the pigments that you do see in cannabis along with the very well-known pigments like what's found in chlorophyll and whatnot.

2:12:02Dr Mark ScialdoneBut at the end of the day, I think that when you're getting these in your extract, you always got to remember too is that, again, at nail temperature or at vaporization temperature, these things might be thermally rearranging or doing something. I think that some of the expectorant molecules actually are not the azulenes themselves, but they're the terpenoids that are derived from azulenes. If you hydrate azulene once, I believe you get a molecule called terpenhydrate.

2:12:34Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm not looking at the molecule right now, but I think it... Terpenhydrate is one of those water-soluble terps that Jim Frayer and I had discussed this about in the process of making water hash that, again, you're losing in the water because it's definitely a water-soluble molecule, and it's one of those molecules that, again, is part of the entourage... Ensemble effect. When this is inhaled into the lungs, it'll have that expectorant interaction with the mucus that is now absorbing all the cannabinoids and fat-soluble stuff that's coming from what you just inhaled.

2:13:14Dr Mark ScialdoneSo yeah, there's also the noted effect that cannabis users have a lower incidence of lung disease than people who don't smoke at all, and they do think that, again, there's a Dr. Alan said many, many times, Marcus, is whether we understand it or not, there's no such thing as

2:13:56Dr Mark ScialdoneAs recreational cannabis use, it's all medical because we're constantly taking in these compounds that fight disease and free radicals that can cause cancer.

2:14:10BubblemanDr. What about Horatio's question there, guys? Did you want to ask that or do you want me to read it out, Horatio?

2:14:16HoratioI can reformulate it. I mean, I went over to a friend's house and he was distilling CO2 and BHO and he was like, yeah, I'm always getting this fraction and I'm like, what fraction are you talking about? And it was like, Azulene, it's blue and I'm like, I don't get that. I don't see that and I don't know if I want to smoke that. But I see it coming out of your fractions and it doesn't seem to show up in liquid-based solvents.

2:14:41HoratioSo it starts to speak again to what level are all these solvents extracting and why do we trust one way or another at this point because we don't know what's beneficial or non-beneficial. And something as simple as the azulene, it could be the nucleation point that gets all the waxes out of our Dr. It's very hydrocarbon-like. It's almost like a small little piece of a nanotube. If you look at it, it's just two fused rings together.

2:15:24Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's not going to be happy in water. It's not going to be a water-loving molecule at all, and certainly it's going to find a polar surface of the glassware, the polar surface of your vessel. It's going to find some other molecule. It's going to find somewhere. It does not want to be in water, right? It wants to lower its energy by essentially associating itself with a fat-soluble domain or something polar.

2:15:51SpeakerYou know, I use a lot of organic essential oils. And one of the ones I use is essential oil of blue chamomile. And it's so blue. And sometimes I'll take a little Yoyoba oil, put it in the bathtub, and then drop like 10 drops of this blue chamomile. And it goes to the Yoyoba oil. But then at the end, like this tiny little bit of blue chamomile, it sticks on the bathtub a little.

2:16:19SpeakerBut it's really good for a lot of things. I'm not saying it's good to smoke, but it's really good for a lot of things. If you look up blue chamomile essential oil, what is it good for? There's a long list of what it's good for. And that's where they first discovered the word azulene because that stuff is so blue. That's how they came up with that word and that terpene.

2:16:43BubblemanNice.

2:16:44Dr Mark ScialdoneCool.

2:16:47Etienne FontanRight there?

2:16:50Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, there's just a whole plethora of molecules that are out there just waiting to be discovered. That's why, again, this is mostly focused around cannabis and cannabinoids, but I just look at that as one plant in the biome. When you think about it, it's almost like, are we the only intelligent life in the universe here on Earth? No, I mean, cannabis is not unique. There's just... A number of plants with all kinds of treasure trove of molecules just waiting to be discovered.

2:17:27Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so Mark, we were talking about creativity before. One of the things that I love about being on Hash Church and being on this program is that so many people reach out to me who want to go to college or go get a degree so they can be in science and they're I'm interested in cannabis and it's just so cool to have that impact with people where they get back to me and say, hey, I just got accepted and I'm going into this program and I'm going to be a scientist.

2:18:02Dr Mark ScialdoneCannabis inspires people to be curious. It inspires people to really understand the connection that humans have with the plant and that opens up all kinds of other questions that Thank you so much for joining us.

2:18:35SpeakerIt makes you grow brain cells. It makes your brain cells grow.

2:18:39Dr Mark ScialdoneIt does, man. I remember when you said to your roommate, hey, let's go lose some brain cells, man. Let's go. That was many brain cells ago. Holy shit, it actually grows brain cells. It does the opposite. We were growing our brains, man. It totally makes sense because, again, when you have to make complex decisions, Connections, especially in chemistry and physics and in the engineering disciplines where you can't always see this.

2:19:10Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're able to put things together because you're able to lower your inhibitions. You're able to collaborate in music when you're able to lower your inhibitions and you're able to You know, you ever try to play music with someone that you don't like, like someone that ran over your dog or that's messing around with your girlfriend? You can't make music, you can't collaborate with people that you don't dig, that you're not on the same wavelength.

2:19:37Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd we put this all on the same wavelength, and so some of the best music that's ever been made has been under the influence of cannabis to sort of lower that Lower that barrier that we all have, you know, to kind of get so people can communicate and collaborate. It's a good thing.

2:19:57BubblemanHey, have a good one, D. Enjoy the day. I agree with everything you said, Mark. It's completely hilarious how trying to make music with someone you're choked at is just not going to happen. Although you've seen bands attempted over the years, and that's why great bands sometimes break up, because they just, you know... They ran over the wrong guy's dog or they fucked the wrong guy's wife.

2:20:23Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, but I think cannabis helps people lower the, you know, when you need to connect with people, especially in a music sense, when you're collaborating with other musicians that have other things going on with their life, cannabis would give you that plane that you can all get down to. And then from down there, you could really come up with really good music because you could collaborate because you're all on the same plane.

2:20:49Dr Mark ScialdoneIt seems like, I don't know, that's unique to cannabis because I could think in alcohol, alcohol destroys bands. It makes the music get worse, in my experience. Hard drink makes the music get worse. Cannabis makes the music really gel. And some of the best music that's ever been made has been made under the influence of cannabis, in my experience.

2:21:12Etienne FontanWhen I was in a band back in the early 90s, I had a band called Northern Lights No. 5 because we only wanted rowers. This was in West Virginia back in 91, 92, right after the war. And yeah, we all smoked every practice. We were all on the same level. We were able to create music and play music. But the reality is we could puff tough all we wanted, but You know the nerves, right?

2:21:43Etienne FontanAs you go and you hit the stage, and when you hit the stage, I don't care how high you are, it's gone because of the adrenaline of actually being on stage and performing on stage. So, firm supporter of cannabis, but what you were talking earlier, cannabis, you know, the turkey, to humans, and the expansion of brain cells, We have to, we joke about it, but you have to understand, they use this as your propaganda that we were actually burning brain cells.

2:22:19Etienne FontanI believe that shit. That's what I learned in school, back in Catholic school, back in the 80s, etc. So I was taught that, you know, don't smoke marijuana, burn brain cells, of course. That started my curiosity, as you were joking around, but that started my curiosity, because people used to say that we're going to smoke, well, let's go burn some brain cells. And actually sparked a curiosity in me saying, you know, I actually kind of go into thoughts and ideas when I actually smoke cannabis.

2:22:44Etienne FontanSo let's actually try to research that. And I tried to research and find that information back in the 80s, right after I got Jack's book in 89. And I couldn't find any information because, of course, there wasn't the internet and the access to the information most of the generation has. But cannabis has been known for a tree of knowledge as a tree of life. And I agree.

2:23:10Etienne FontanNot only does it extend brain cells, it has helped people come to a better understanding of self and for myself. And my region of thought to an idea is to continue to want to research this plant. As I joked earlier, saying this plant takes us in a direction that actually recruits us. But it sparked that curiosity because of the lies and misinformation of prohibition and the DARE programs.

2:23:38Etienne FontanThat have told us this misinformation. This information has to get out that it is actually expanding brains. It is expanding cells. It is actually helping people. We joke about it. We laugh. And there's a joking to it, no doubt. But there's also a hard edge, real seriousness to this. Because we've been lied to for generations and generations. And we're fortunate at finding out through our own experimentation and through science that we forced ourselves to do To now understand this.

2:24:09Etienne FontanSo realize we have a lot of information of knowledge to spread. And yes, cannabis does help you.

2:24:18Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's why the whole PTSD and being able to forget. I mean, again, the endocannabinoid system is part of the survival thing that's evolved inside humans. We have to be able to forget things. The guy who didn't remember... That the saber-toothed tiger is going to like eat him if he goes up to him is no longer in the gene pool, right? That guy got weeded out. So you have to be able to forget things.

2:24:46Dr Mark ScialdoneYou have to be able to forget.

2:24:47HoratioYou have to be able to remember, but you have to be able to forget.

2:24:50Dr Mark ScialdoneSo that's the whole thing with PTSD. ATN is, you know, that's where it's operating in that part of the limbic system in our brain. You know, I mean, there's no other drug that has that kind of In fact, you guys all maybe saw that post I put on my Facebook, that interview with Mishulam that now basically says that the National Institutes of Health have now issued a thing that the endocannabinoid system impacts every human disease.

2:25:26Dr Mark ScialdoneEvery disease is somehow mitigated. By the endocannabinoid system. Every one. They can't find one where it doesn't. Diabetes, cancer, everything. It's the truth.

2:25:44Etienne FontanAnd what's fascinating is that we've been on our self-experimentation and that we have now and have found science coming around to it. So it's very interesting that we've been able to get these internal triggers personally And science backed them up as we went around saying, you know, Canada, this is medicine. And I'm saying, oh, you guys are just saying that so you can get high. It's like, no, seriously, this is medicine.

2:26:09Etienne FontanAnd further science will only back up what we've been saying all along that people have been lying and joking about. But, you know, many of us on the panel have seen that it's a real enough medicine for us to actually risk our lives and freedoms and actually... You know, do the science. Actually pave the science. Learn from it. Fail from it. You know, we don't learn through success, people.

2:26:33Etienne FontanWe only learn through failure. And everyone here has failed time and time again. It's just we've all gotten back up and kept trying and kept believing. And this plant has fortunately been right there with us.

2:26:47Etienne FontanJust blessed to be a part of it.

2:26:48Dr Mark ScialdoneThe truth is that science is now on our side, basically saying that this is the case. The endocannabinoid system, which again, Professor Mishulam, when he discovered the active ingredients in the cannabis plant, didn't actually know where they react in the body, and it was through that research that they actually found this extremely important system that's in our bodies. And I think that again, the pharmaceutical industry has to be scratching their head at this, because this basically is a shot across their bow Because their whole mantra is not to deal with disease in terms of treating the endocannabinoid system, but by bypassing that and going right to that enzyme that's in the liver that's making cholesterol.

2:27:39Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what do you do? You take Lipitor. Okay. That backs up the biosynthesis of cholesterol in your body by hitting a particular enzyme. Okay, but what's the long-term ramifications of that? Well, They don't know. It's just like throwing a wrench inside a running car and saying, you know, tighten spark plug number two. I mean, you don't know what's going to happen.

2:28:06Dr Mark ScialdoneGo ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

2:28:10SpeakerI'm sorry. When I had my open heart surgery over ten years ago, one of the six pharmaceutical medicines they gave me was Lipidor. I stopped taking that after three months, and cannabis has been my only medicine for all this whole decade, and a little bit more, and that Lipidor sucked. All that shit sucks, man.

2:28:34Etienne FontanDr. People are wondering what you're smoking, and then suddenly somebody was asking regarding AIDS and cannabis, but I want to say something. Dr.

2:28:45SpeakerI'm smoking this beautiful Amnesia Haze. Perfectly organic, grown to full maturity, cured really good, and super full of terpenes. I was so high I could hardly do this right, because I'm so right-brained from it now.

2:29:04Etienne FontanOkay, so I was asking in the chat regarding cannabis and AIDS. We would not be where we are if it hadn't been for the AIDS crisis, for one. People got active. And if it hadn't been for the AIDS activists in San Francisco and the Bay Area and California really pushing and Dennis Perrone making 215 happen, we wouldn't, one, be where we are today. Period. End of story.

2:29:31Etienne FontanThat's the reality. Now, cannabis, more than we realize, has stimulated appetite and got people to eat, and that was one of the most things that we saw in the AIDS community. I have had and have worked with many AIDS patients, one who's still alive who contracted it back in 83. I worked with one of my managers back at OPG. She was 13 years old and raped by her uncle and given AIDS.

2:30:02Etienne FontanAnd she's still alive today. And they credit cannabis. I don't know the specific science regarding it, but people ask regarding AIDS and cannabis. It stimulates appetite, which gets people to eat, and it is a wasting syndrome similar to what I had. Not only do I have TSD, I have Gulf War Syndrome. My Gulf War Syndrome caused me to have what they thought was AIDS-like symptoms because I just had such a clear biological exposure that I was

2:30:32Etienne FontanIn a way, because my body cannot take and eat. Okay, so what I found is miso soup, one to clear out my liver. I learned that from reading and exploring people who survived Hiroshima. They used that to cleanse themselves out. When I was in the Gulf War, the Russians sold Iraqi a lot of their weapons and a lot of their weaponry was blue tips. Okay, it was with depleted uranium.

2:31:05Etienne FontanOkay, so that stuff and that shit was everywhere. So I had exposure to that. So I had to self-heal myself off that so that I could actually get an appetite because I waste weight myself. Imagine me 100 pounds lighter. I was under 100 pounds. It was bad. And that's just reality. So... I can't speak for an AIDS patient. I can't speak for a rare disease person such as myself.

2:31:34Etienne FontanIt is working. Hey, bash. The galley is that it stimulates your appetite and gets you to eat. If you can eat and you can sustain yourself when you can't, that, many AIDS patients say, has been more than anything because a lot of the medication they were given early on was very toxic and it killed a lot of people. Unfortunately, it wasn't until later that they realized that, because remember, as Todd has told us exponentially, it was called practicing, it's still called practicing medicine.

2:32:07Etienne FontanThey don't know what they're doing completely, especially with you and your body. So the reality is, fortunately, science is getting behind why it stimulates our appetite. But I know many AIDS patients continue to use cannabis along with their new regimen of pills and are able to lead very sustainable lives and very thankful and they are very thankful for cannabis and many of them are patients and still come through.

2:32:39Etienne FontanI have one who is patient 16 on OCBC's patient list and he's been an AIDS patient since the Uh, 80s himself and still comes in every day and gets his cannabis. So, cannabis is doing something for AIDS patients. Uh, I can't specifically say what, but, uh, realize that, um, yeah, cannabis is an amazing plant. Now, Mark, maybe you can answer, uh, maybe what the cell protection actually transpires, uh, because I've heard cell protection, uh, For cannabis, that also prevents spread, I can't say of AIDS virus specifically, but I'm understanding that it does have those properties per se.

2:33:28Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I mean, it's a general anti-inflammatory and also analgesic, but what property are you referring to in particular? So it promotes what's called programd cell death or apoptosis, which is basically turning over cells. So it's basically, again, you're taking old cells that are no longer, again, useful to the tissue, no longer useful to the body, and making sure that those cells are dying as opposed to mutating and become potentially cancerous.

2:34:04Dr Mark ScialdoneSo promoting Apoptosis is what it's called, pro-apoptotic. So they're pro-apoptotic. They're also anti-proliferative when it comes down to cancer cells, and that's one of the reasons why they're used, because their antioxidant properties basically allow them to selectively attack cancer cells as opposed to, or cells that are essentially affected as opposed to healthy cells. So they're able to differentiate. They're able to basically control things on a much different basis as to what conventional chemotherapy agents that are used in chemotherapy and other anti-cancer agents that are just really toxic materials that are just trying to be administered at an effective dose where you're just trying to manage the side effects.

2:35:02Dr Mark ScialdoneBut for AIDS in particular, all I can say is exactly what you had said, ATN, which is that it stimulates your appetite. It helps your digestive cycle become more regular. It lowers your stress level because you're able to forget things. You're able to forget that you're dying of AIDS. So you're forgetting that, and that's very, very powerful medicine inside a patient. You know, the mind does a lot of very, very powerful things.

2:35:32Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd again, when you're able to sleep and you're able to eat and you're able to function like a regular human being, that is basically your body trying to, you know, get itself better.

2:35:44BubblemanThe only thing I wanted to ask... Go ahead, Soma.

2:35:49SpeakerI was just telling Mark that it's really nice to listen to him. He's really nice.

2:35:54BubblemanYeah, he's got good knowledge and he's definitely sharing it well with us here at Hash Church.

2:36:00Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's about time I did something useful.

2:36:03BubblemanI wanted to say that for those of you listening and we've been discussing cannabis and AIDS, if you can join the Hash Church group on Facebook, if you have any links or any ways to, whether it's a video or a study or whatever, we can concentrate some of this information onto a post there and that way... If anyone wants to learn from what we spoke about, they're not completely lost in having to Google everything.

2:36:28BubblemanThere'll be a concentrated one thread. One person can start it and then in the comments of that thread we can just put all the stuff that we can find on that particular subject.

2:36:41KhalidThat's all I wanted to say.

2:36:48SpeakerHey! What's up, brother? Welcome, Ernie. Thank you, sir. It's good to be here.

2:36:52BubblemanDude, on Hash Church. I know, I know. In the house. I see Big Tony over there. Big Tony holds it down in Hash Church, whether he's on a plane, whether he's in a car, in a hot air balloon.

2:37:08SpeakerExcellent. I know Tony's not used to seeing me, are you, T?

2:37:13BubblemanCan he not hear us?

2:37:14SpeakerTony! Hey!

2:37:17TonyI can hear you. I can only hear you. The only person I can't hear is Khalid.

2:37:21BubblemanErnie just came into the room and he was saying, what's up?

2:37:25TonyOh, I didn't hear him either.

2:37:26BubblemanWhat's up, buddy?

2:37:31BubblemanSo Tony's having technical difficulties. It's why he was interrupting Khalid earlier and people were like, why is Tony talking over Khalid? And we found out because Tony cannot hear Khalid talk at all.

2:37:43SpeakerZero.

2:37:43BubblemanWe saved you on that for those people just ready to jump. And that's too bad you can't hear Ernie, because he's in the house.

2:37:52TonyNo, I can't hear either one of them.

2:37:54SpeakerI think he's just ignoring me.

2:37:56BubblemanSo... Yeah, right. No, he really can't hear. He couldn't hear Khalid either. So what's going on with you, Ernie?

2:38:03SpeakerNot too much, not too much. We're just getting ready to do some running around. I came downstairs to smoke some hash, and I figured you guys were on, and I wanted to join. I'm a joiner.

2:38:14BubblemanWell, yeah, you are. Well, that's awesome. So Ernie, for those of you that aren't familiar with Ernie, Ernie was grower back in the day and I guess one of the original producers. Partners with Tony in River Rock and then became United Cannabis. Long time grower of the goods of cannabis and just here to share a little bit of his time with us today. So I'm really stoked to have you, bro.

2:38:40SpeakerI'm glad to be here, man. I'm glad I finally made it. Tony's done a little ball breaking a couple times and I don't make it on. So here I am.

2:38:49BubblemanWell, we've had some good conversation today. We've been getting into terpenes. We've been getting into, you know, the molds and the mildews that were apparently present in those strains at the Cannabis Cup. Aaron and Don were in here earlier talking about that. And Mark Scaldone's getting into the science and... I guess really what, you know, the most important factor in all of this that leads us down this road starts with that seed, those genetics, and then to be properly grown.

2:39:18BubblemanAnd you've had a little bit of history with the learning about how to properly grow cannabis. What have you got, like two or three decades under your belt?

2:39:28SpeakerYeah, I'm 25 years in now. So, yeah, it's been fun.

2:39:34BubblemanThat's awesome. And you grow in a variety of different ways?

2:39:39SpeakerYeah, we've done hydro, we've done flood tables, aero, you know, bio in dirt or whatever. So pretty much the way we like to grow is a peat-based dirt with, you know, organic supplements. And I think that's really the way to go. I think if you put the right stuff in there, then you get the right stuff out, you know.

2:40:03BubblemanYeah, you have a good video. I think it might be on like UCAN's YouTube page or maybe even like one, like I can't remember which page it was on, but it's you and a few guys standing in front of this giant reservoir and you're basically talking about, you know, how it comes to be the importance of producing this, the food the way you do.

2:40:24SpeakerYeah, that was the tea. We had a big tea brewer over for the greenhouses at River Rock.

2:40:29BubblemanYeah, that was a nice tea brewer.

2:40:31SpeakerYeah, it was nice. I mean, we had some out in Ukiah there for a little while, too. We built a big 2,000-gallon Vortex brewer that was a lot of fun and was really pumping out some goods. But, you know, now we're moving forward. It looks like we've got a pretty good thing going with the Harborside guys, and Tony's down there making medicine. So we're focused on that at this point in time, and I'm sitting back waiting for someone to just put me in, Coach, and let me grow again, you know?

2:40:55BubblemanYeah, well, that's definitely where, you know, some of your strongest strengths lie, you know. Just I can picture you walking in the fields or walking in the greenhouses with a big smile on your face. Most definitely. Most definitely. Sorry, I'm just going to tell Tony to open up the YouTube chat. It might be a little delayed. But he'll probably be able to hear us through that particular venue.

2:41:31BubblemanIt's weird that he can't hear specific people. That is so, so strange. I'll think real quick. Here we go. Get that over there. Boom, bam, boom. Sweet. Well, I'm about to take a dab myself. Looks like Soma and Todd. Todd was just down in the museum, and I was showing what you were showing, Todd, on the main screen while Mark and a few other people were talking.

2:41:55BubblemanThat was pretty awesome, dude.

2:41:57SpeakerYou know, we can do it again. I just didn't want to interrupt, and I felt a little stoned when I got in public. I'm not going to lie. I'm walking around with a fucking phone in my hand, people. And it's like, you want to stop and explain yourself and be polite. Oh, imagine that. The museum's got, yeah.

2:42:14BubblemanYeah, so I was kind of... Noah was just literally telling us that he was almost too hot.

2:42:20SpeakerI didn't want to interrupt him. So it was just all awkward, man. It was just, I was like, you know what? I'm going to go smoke.

2:42:28BubblemanYeah, that amnesia haze is no joke.

2:42:31SpeakerWell, you know what? In pure overkill, I asked a friend, I said, hey... I got some weed. I got a cooler.

2:42:42SpeakerTrying to figure out which one to smoke first. It's pretty kind of good.

2:42:46BubblemanSo Brett Maverick is asking Ernie to tell us about his hairlume goo strain.

2:42:54SpeakerYeah, so that's a strain that some friends of mine that used to make the Amsterdam Cup every year would go over and pick up, and they probably bought It's definitely something back from the old AFT GUI, but it wasn't like anything else. They popped about 30 or 40 seeds, and it was the most unique out of all of them, and we've had that since the middle, late 90s, probably like 97, 98 or whatever.

2:43:20SpeakerWe got that strain, and we've kept it around ever since.

2:43:24BubblemanWell, that's what it's all about right there. The keeping a strain alive like that is so impressive for a multitude of reasons. A, it inclines that you trusted people to hold on to it, and B, it inclines that you know what you're doing to the point where you're not losing your strains.

2:43:40SpeakerYeah, I was stingy with my first two really, really good strains and kept them really tight, never gave them to anybody. I think I gave them to one person, and then I had a hiatus to go do some dead tour. And I came back and his house had been raided and I lost a really amazing purple hay strain that had come from a really old guy and an old strain called GS1, Goofy Grape x Skunk 1.

2:44:03SpeakerAnd at that point in time I told myself I'm not going to be that stingy anymore. You got to get them out there so that if you need to at some point in time you can get them back. So I was though following the person who gave them to me said never give these to anybody. So I was following the direction of the person that gave them to me, but in that process, he also got busted.

2:44:22SpeakerThis is in Florida, where it was obviously not very cool. And so he lost them. He came back to me looking for them, and I had lost them because he had told me not to give them to anybody. So, you know, I guess that's just the way it works sometimes, right? Yeah. Go ahead, Soma. With my genetics, I shared them with everybody. Every time I found something great, I'd share it with everybody that I could that wanted something great.

2:44:47SpeakerAwesome. I've been doing that for like four plus decades.

2:44:51BubblemanBecause why wouldn't you, right? That's a great thing to do. And even if it's just for... It never hurt me. Yeah, even if it was just like Ernie was saying to be able to recapture a lost strain, even if it was just for that, sharing is worth just that. Thank you for watching.

2:45:29BubblemanThat becomes sort of a social responsibility that you have to your community to make sure that you're offering as much of that as you possibly can. It's not taking anything away from you. In life, there's a lot of reverberations. Yes, like the pebble falling into the pond.

2:45:51Etienne FontanMany ripples.

2:45:53BubblemanI can hear everyone. Tapping policy, right? Thank God for the Grateful Dead taping policy.

2:45:59SpeakerI knew it was going to go ripple Grateful Dead. I knew it.

2:46:03BubblemanWe're not done yet. It's still moving. Now it's going to go give thanks to Owsley Stanley for putting the amount of time and energy and money and thought, psychedelic thought, into that wall of sound. Because really those two things, the taping and the wall of sound, the quality of sound made for people to want to take. And there wasn't much of that happening before those guys.

2:46:30Etienne FontanAnd Owsley's Acid, that didn't hurt either.

2:46:33BubblemanNo, Owsley's Acid was like a little cherry on top, really.

2:46:40BubblemanKid Charlemagne. Ah, Bear. I got to speak with Bear only a few times, about five. A few years into making the water hash, I got a strange email from a guy who told me his name was Bear, and he lived in Australia, and that he was responsible for this and that, and I was like, it sounds like you're Owsley Stanley, and he's like, I haven't gone by that name for a while.

2:47:01BubblemanBut I was teaching people about water extraction, and he was telling me that butter extraction was the way to go, like he just uses like pounds of butter. Guy was like a mad mediator. He was kind of a wild character if you know anything about Owsley Stanley or Bear. He was definitely a unique dude. And I just felt like it was very unique to be able to have the dozen or so conversations that I had.

2:47:24BubblemanAnd I in fact sent him a set of bubble bags as well because I just wanted him to have a set of bubble bags. I thought that was, I mean, shit. Owsley Stanley.

2:47:35SpeakerWendy passed away. Car accident, was it?

2:47:37BubblemanYeah, I think it was in his truck, like on his property or something. It rolled, some sort of experience like that. But he was, to say he was a tripper is a major understatement.

2:47:51Etienne FontanHe was a very intense character. I got to meet him back when we were gathering signatures for one of Jackson's initiatives back in 94. And he came up and introduced himself as Bear. And he was just so intense. And I realized immediately who he was because I've heard legend of him and stuff like that. And of course, I was wearing one of the original 420 shirts that had the paisley and shit on it, which got on dead lot.

2:48:15Etienne FontanAnd he just laid down life in the law, took me backstage, was just very intense. And I only got to spend a few hours with him, but Wow, what a character. I mean, I could not imagine, I mean, just the intensity of just that short time, I could not imagine a whole day with a cat like that, much less what he created and the scenes, and I could see why people gravitated around, and he was, yeah, he was good people.

2:48:47Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I had a very interesting encounter with Bear at a Grateful Dead show in March of 1992. I defended my PhD dissertation on a Wednesday, and that Friday we were at the Hamilton, Ontario show, and my friend who knew Bear came up and grabbed me during, just before Drums in Space started during the second set, and it was during a song called Dark Star, which those of us who know Grateful Dead music, Dark Star is one of their most trippiest Improvisational pieces and usually a deadhead is in their own space so to be suddenly taken out of your space but she said here we're going to go meet Bear come with me and so she took me backstage and I had not been backstage before and the band was just coming down from doing their where they take the break during drum space and so Jerry and the rest of the band like walked like Thank you for watching.

2:50:24Dr Mark ScialdoneFrom drum space on through the end of the show, people had left the arena. By the time we had broken up our conversation, there was nobody left in the arena. We talked for about three hours. So my first consultation as a PhD chemist was with none other than Bear. It was great. We had a great discussion about all kinds of Natural product chemistry. He was a very, yeah, as you know, a meat eater.

2:50:54Dr Mark ScialdoneHe grabbed my belly and said I needed to go to the gym. But, yeah, we talked about the Grateful Dead. He was also, again, a sound enthusiast. Everyone knows about his involvement with the Wall of Sound. But he was also the guy that was responsible for taping a lot of those crucial... Early gigs and some of the old and in the way material, that old and in the way stuff, that bluegrass stuff that Jerry was doing in 73 was absolutely just dynamite stuff.

2:51:24Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd Bear was there at all those gigs and made sure that there were high quality recordings of a lot of shows. So anybody who listens to Grateful Dead, you'll probably thank yourself because Bear was really instrumental in not only making sure that the band sounded good, but the recording sounded well as well.

2:51:45Etienne FontanI need to clarify, I'm not a Dead fan, but meeting Bear and all that was just very cool and I really loved the scene because we gathered signatures and also I have to admit Shakedown Street is still one of the most amazing sociological experiments and prohibition that I've ever been able to witness.

2:52:03Dr Mark ScialdoneI'll tell you, what an amazing thing for certain, although... You mean Shakedown Street had a Grateful Dead concert?

2:52:14Dr Mark ScialdoneWe've talked about this before. Some musical acts would come into an arena and they would act like police and they would be holding anyone down for just breaking out a little one-hitter. Grateful Dead comes to the same arena a week later. People are smoking down all over the place. You almost thought it was like a different place. It was quite a unique existence that they had throughout the 80s there where Other concerts, it was just a completely different experience.

2:52:46Dr Mark ScialdoneNot just the shakedown street outside, but everything that people sold just to stay on the road, whether it was t-shirts or grilled cheeses or veggie burritos.

2:52:56SpeakerI sold crystals. I sold crystals.

2:53:00Dr Mark ScialdoneI sold crystals.

2:53:03SpeakerIronically. I sold crystals. You know, a lot of why that was is because the security does what they're told. And the dead would say, fuck it, you know, don't release people, just protect people. And you know that they put the Otis on the police to come in and actually bust people, which unfortunately the feds did and everything. I mean, they were pretty evil to us towards the end.

2:53:25SpeakerBut, you know, the fact that they hired security played a big part on how we got treated in that parking lot.

2:53:33BubblemanYeah, and it just passed on to fish in the 90s, you know. I remember being in some of those parking lots where feds were surrounding in the upper buildings with walkie-talkies and binoculars, like literally like Shakedown Street became like get poppy on Beer Street.

2:53:49Dr Mark ScialdoneWell now, yeah, Shakedown Street synonymous with any big concert where there's a bunch of people trying to sell food and beer and t-shirts and all kinds of, You know, pirated merchandise, and it was funny at the Mann Music Center when Fish just recently played there, and these Philly police officers busted these guys for like three nitrous tanks when there's just nitrous all over the place, but they busted...

2:54:19SpeakerI'm so glad that we had the dead before we had camera phones, now that I really contemplate what you're saying. Last thing we needed was a lot of snitch bitches running around with their fucking phones. Look, look, look. It would have sucked so much worse than it honestly did. God, I'm so glad we didn't have phones back then. Hey, I'm going to smoke to no cell phones for a minute.

2:54:39SpeakerI'm being grateful, guys.

2:54:41BubblemanYeah, let's smoke to that, but let's also think about the nitrous and think about the mystery oil that could be present in those tanks.

2:54:50SpeakerAll I have to say to that is wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.

2:55:17SpeakerNot like I've ever, ever been at a dead concert doing anything.

2:55:23Dr Mark ScialdoneOh shit, they got them at Eagles games. When you leave the Eagles football game, they're selling nitrous like it's a dead concert now.

2:55:31SpeakerA what?

2:55:32Dr Mark ScialdoneA wood team? The Philadelphia Eagles, you know, the NFL team that plays in Philadelphia. NFL has nitrous for sale? Any large event in Philadelphia is going to have a crew of people selling nitrous. I'm telling you, dude, it's the nitrous mob.

2:55:50SpeakerI got to say, as a pot dealer, I always thought, dude, he's fucked running around with a whole goddamn barrel of shit. You know, at least I can be like, what weed? What weed? What's in my pockets? I don't know. But the guy standing next to the nitrous bottle, that's a little bit, you know. That's suspicious.

2:56:07BubblemanHey, welcome, Jen Doe. Hi, guys. How are things going over by you?

2:56:14Jenn DoeThey're all right. They're going. I lost a chicken the other day, so that was sad.

2:56:25BubblemanOh, man. The chicken.

2:56:28Jenn DoeYeah. It was sad. We had an owl actually get into my chicken coop. And it was a murder scene. Owls don't fuck around when it comes to chickens. No. If I heard something flapping around, I was like, what the hell are they doing in there? So I go running out to look. There's a huge fucking owl in my chicken coop looking at me like, well, fuck. I was like, oh my god, how do I get this thing out?

2:56:54BubblemanDid it give you the big little wide-eyed stare?

2:56:58Jenn DoeYeah. It was big. It was a big owl. It was Probably a good foot and a half, two feet. Things are great, yeah.

2:57:11BubblemanWell, welcome to Hash Church 50. 50 weeks we've been rocking this Hash Church thing.

2:57:19HoratioIt's good fun. If it makes you feel any better, Jen, a bobcat took three of my ducks and it can jump the electric fence and climb the roof and crash in. But we're used to that kind of stuff. There's like 40 coyotes that surround us every night.

2:57:37SpeakerYeah.

2:57:39HoratioThat's just our life.

2:57:41SpeakerMan, I feel the same way in Oakland. Hey, but when, what was the first hash church we did? Wasn't it, one of the first ones was at Soma's, wasn't it, Mark? That was the fifth one, I think. That was the fifth one.

2:57:51BubblemanThoroughly, for sure, yeah. It was in the first, like, two months or something that we ended up in Amsterdam. The cannabis cup got canceled.

2:57:59SpeakerAlso, it was November. Right, yeah. It was a while ago, man. It was November 22nd or something like that or 19th or something. I don't know. It wasn't right now.

2:58:10BubblemanWe're in September. So, yeah, it's exactly. It was in the first couple of months because I think we started Hash Church like the third week of September or whatever.

2:58:24BubblemanIt's going strong. People like it. We got stuff to say. They got stuff to listen to. So why not share what we have?

2:58:35BubblemanNot to mention I like getting everyone together. You know, lots of people are meeting people through Hash Church and sort of making new relationships and creating new pathways. So that's really a wonderful thing as well. Soma is not in Oakland, Joshua.

2:58:51BubblemanWhat the fuck?

2:58:53TonySoma's in Oakland?

2:58:53SpeakerYeah.

2:58:54TonyI asked the exact same thing. I said, oh, if he is, I'm going to go over there right now.

2:59:01TonyHold on, everybody. Look.

2:59:03SpeakerAuthentic Dutch roof there. See that? Authentic Dutch. Very Dutch.

2:59:09TonyOh, I know that roof. I've laid on the floor looking up before.

2:59:14BubblemanYeah, you've passed out in that room before.

2:59:16TonyI have passed out there.

2:59:20SpeakerProbably on my candy, too.

2:59:21TonyYeah, it was on your candy. It was on your candies and those turp dabs.

2:59:27SpeakerWe were sitting at this table, actually, now that we think about it. This was the spot, bro. Doing the dabs off the $50,000 whatever pipe. I was like, that ain't worth 50 fucking grand. But it hits really good. I'm not going to shit. That was one of the best dabs I did the whole trip, but.

2:59:47BubblemanYeah, those guys have the expensive pipes. There's no doubt about it.

2:59:50SpeakerYeah, they were very nice. They were very hospitable with their smoke. Man, that was fucking unbelievable, honestly.

2:59:58BubblemanJust rolling around Amsterdam with the FTK in his hand.

3:00:02SpeakerYeah.

3:00:04BubblemanGood old Flav. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's nice sometimes to puff out of an elite pipe that's just, you know, ridiculous. Hey, Urban Remo's in the chat room. Hello, Remo. Where? Oh, he's in the YouTube chat. He just came in and said hello.

3:00:25TonyAnyway, I'm going to take off and I've got to go run and do some stuff today.

3:00:30BubblemanOh, yeah?

3:00:31TonyYeah.

3:00:34BubblemanAll right, Tony. Well, we thank you for coming in.

3:00:38SpeakerI have to go soon, too. But I love seeing so much wisdom on one screen. I love you all.

3:00:49BubblemanIt's good to see you.

3:00:53Etienne FontanMuch love to you there, Selma.

3:00:57BubblemanYou are. Lots of people are asking about your run, Jen Doe. How did your ice wash run go?

3:01:04Jenn DoeTurned out pretty good, actually. It turned out way better than I expected because everybody told me you can only keep French frozen in the freezer for so long. So, uh, We had a huge heat wave come through here that just lasted all down summer. So this was the first time I've been able to run hash since summer started. And so it's been in there since then, and yeah, it actually turned out really good.

3:01:30Jenn DoeIt seemed to dry a little bit faster, which I wonder if that, I don't know, maybe you guys can help me out with that. Does that have something to do with the longer freeze time maybe?

3:01:38BubblemanHmm. Yeah, I mean, if you've dried out that membrane more, I mean, sometimes when you leave things in the freezer, if it's not sealed, it'll just dry the shit out of it. It'll just, like, literally dry it right out.

3:01:53Jenn DoeSo it's possible. It seemed to dry, like, super fast. I checked it within about 12 hours, and it felt dry. I checked it 12 hours after that, and then I checked it another 12 hours after that, and it wasn't getting any drier, so... Got it in the fridge. We'll see how it turns out.

3:02:17BubblemanCool. I'm trying to invite Remo into the room, but there's so many fake accounts. I don't want to send the link to the wrong person. What do you got there, Khalid?

3:02:31KhalidThis, just some of our raw CO2 oil. It's the stuff that we've been taking the terpenes out of. Actually, we're making some oil for a chocolate company. They wanted to use high-grade oil, but the high terpene content was creating an issue for them. And so... That's kind of how we were pushed into extracting terpenes or learning more about it was so that we could accommodate them. Cooking them out doesn't really do the same thing.

3:03:05KhalidIf you just decarboxylate it and burn out the terpenes, you get left with a burnt taste. If you can actually remove them, you increase the potency and reduce the flavor. So it's a pretty cool thing. But then on the other end of it, this is just our normal product. So it's about 10% terpenes and It's just real flavorful. It's passively made with the SFE grade CO2, the stuff I was showing you guys about last time, the solvent that we stumbled across.

3:03:36KhalidThe only downside to it is because it's kind of more akin to like a perfuming process or a passive process. We're really getting only a 5% return, but it's a real beautiful oil, has... Very little lipids or waxes in it and high terpene retention, so it's an awesome tab.

3:04:01Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat is it analyzed for in terms of THCA? You mean what are the numbers? Yeah, like what's the concentration of THC in your extract?

3:04:13KhalidIt just depends on what it is we run, but it kind of averages around 50%. We've had stuff test as high as 70% THCA and stuff test as low as like mid-40s. Thank you for watching.

3:04:48KhalidThat stuff's just from Blue Dream that's an outdoor greenhouse, or I shouldn't say greenhouse, it's a hoop house.

3:04:56Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, yeah, you get pretty big returns on the terpene content, but it does affect the... Have you ever re-extracted with butane after extracting with CO2 to see if butane pulls off anything after the herbs have already been extracted with CO2?

3:05:15KhalidYeah, yeah, we have. And it pulls off about an additional 30% THC and then a lot of waxes and lipids, kind of like the remainder. So pretty much if you, I think, started with hydrocarbons or a different process, we're taking off like the crema, you know, we're just taking off just the best stuff. And what's left is... Is most of the junk and then like I said about 30, maybe 35% at the top.

3:05:50KhalidBut then that stuff we've been experimenting, distilling into like, I don't know what to call it, but you know like this stuff, the distilled cannabinoids, where it's just all THC. So this one's like 85%.

3:06:09Dr Mark ScialdoneI like the clear, right?

3:06:12KhalidYeah, yeah. But see, then I question still, like, and obviously I'm trying to push myself further and further, but, you know, that 15%, and we have 91% cannabinoids, and I think it's like there's a remainder of 1.5% terpenes. But then it tests clean. But you know, they're only testing for like nine or ten things, and so I'm curious what the rest is, and I'm working with one of the guys at Steep Hill, and he's kind of always helping push the limits and test new stuff.

3:06:44KhalidIf I can concentrate it and bring it to him, he's usually willing to try and test it. But I need, I at least feel like I need more access to real labs, labs that can test for a whole spectrum of things, even if it's a little cost prohibitive, I'd be interested in a You know, trying to get a bigger profile, especially with the potential, with some of the stuff, the hydrocarbons, I'm interested in it as a second step for pulling more and for getting the most out of the plant, but I'm a big stickler for a clean solvent, so, you know, understanding how to get there, whether it be through distillation, like we distilled the solvent that we used to then pull the extra cannabinoids, and then that we winterized And tried to distill into this stuff.

3:07:35KhalidAnd it makes a great product. It makes a beautiful golden product that dabs and has kind of a light honey taste. But there is a lot of weird stuff that comes off when you're making it. And even when you have the finished product, there's still a, you know, there's something different about it. And obviously you're just distilling somewhat of an isolate, but Again, that 15% leaves a little bit of a question in my head, but the same with what I make with the CO2 oil that I was just showing you guys.

3:08:06KhalidI mean, if it's 60% THCA and 10% terpenes, you know, there's still another 30% unknown, and obviously some of that's probably waxes and lipids. I'm not sure if anyone in this room is familiar with Kim Ron Degrassi from Steep Hill, but he's a Older guy from Halent and when those two joined. And he's been around cannabis from Davis for a long time and he's a PhD. And he's a neat guy.

3:08:36KhalidHe kind of, you know, pulls all these ideas together if you can keep up with them. And... I like a lot of what he has to say, though, about just the idea that, you know, if we can't keep pace at some point, someone will come into the industry who can. So it's important for us to push ourselves as much as possible now before people, you know, start bringing bigger processes and bigger labs to the arena.

3:09:05Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, here I am.

3:09:06KhalidWell, we like to hear you. Can you test it all? Can you do it all for me?

3:09:13Dr Mark ScialdoneAbsolutely. If you send me any samples, I will tell you to the nth degree every molecule that's in there. If it's in there, it can't hide. We will find every molecule that's in there, and unlike the folks at Steep Hill, we're not just going to rely on HPLC to do it. HPLC is a really powerful method, but it's only one method, and it's just one snapshot of how you look at Thank you so much for joining us.

3:10:00KhalidHydrocarbons, the leftover mystery ones.

3:10:03Dr Mark ScialdoneAbsolutely, absolutely.

3:10:04KhalidYeah, we'll have to start scraping stuff together for you then. We'll send you some Azulene, some Mistralene, some all sorts of different stuff.

3:10:13Dr Mark ScialdoneSend me whatever you want. Awesome.

3:10:17BubblemanSee, this is what I'm talking about.

3:10:22KhalidWe'll post this on Hashtag Church.

3:10:26BubblemanYummy. Time for a bong rip.

3:10:31Dr Mark ScialdoneI guess the important thing, Khalid, is that like any process that you run, I mean, there's a lot of variables and you always got to remember that just like how these things react with our body, there's so many variables that you're looking at a multivariable problem. And again, the biggest variable that I see, again, when you're looking at the polarity of CO2, supercritical CO2 under some Thank you for joining us today.

3:11:22Dr Mark ScialdoneWater plays a really, really big role in influencing the dipole of supercritical CO2, and that's known, as well as other alcohols and other terpenes. So all these things affect the polarity of the mix. You can't extract them and not affect the gross properties of the mixture of the fluid.

3:11:47Dr Mark ScialdoneDoes that make sense?

3:11:48BubblemanIt makes good sense.

3:11:51KhalidYeah, no, I think in general every solvent that we've used so far is greatly affected by co-solvents and water being included as one of those. It makes it, regardless of what you're doing, an important part of the drying process or the preparation of whatever material process you're running. I haven't done a lot of hydrocarbons with the live resin or the fresh frozen or the cut down stuff, but So that would be somewhere that I'm curious is how that affects their yields or changes things.

3:12:27KhalidI would never do it in regards to CO2 because of the way that it does, it dilutes the effect and we're only at 5% in our returns so to dilute that or to get a lesser return seems Seems a little silly, but also the water degrades the terpenes and affects those. So if you have moisture, you can't get as high of a terpene retention as we do.

3:12:50KhalidSo the 10% terpenes for us in part comes from having a really dry product and being able to collect the lightest volatiles all the way up to the heavier volatiles that are being captured with the cannabinoids and having kind of that full range that the CO2 allows us to do that hydrocarbons don't because the CO2 Is so expansive as a gas and boils at such a low boiling point that it just allows us to capture a lot more terpenes and a lot more of the lighter terpenes and the sesquiterps, the modulators.

3:13:23KhalidSo at least in my experience where I feel like with a lot of the kind of traditional strains like a sour diesel or an OG, if somebody has like a tech really dialed in, you might get a hydrocarbon extraction that has a, A pronounced subtle terpene profile, but usually it's like the tangies, the lemon hazes. It's stuff with like really upfront monitors, things with higher boiling points.

3:13:52KhalidAnd two, if you think about like how somebody dabs BHO, there's a lot bigger latitude. And part of the reduction in latitude when you dab like a terp juice or a raw CO2 is those lower boiling points. Because even though you don't have the plant material and the waxes and all the stuff that's in a hash, You still have to contend with all those lower boiling point terpenes.

3:14:13KhalidSo if you throw it on the nail too hot, you're going to get high, but you're going to get this really modulated taste that's just horrible because all you've done is basically, you know, if you say in terp juice or you hit it too hot, you're volatizing 7% of your terpenes and smoking 3% of them with the cannabinoids and that's just a god awful experience.

3:14:37Dr Mark ScialdoneI know. You can totally taste that too. I mean, that's got a very Characteristic flavor, burnt terps, yeah, I mean, there's definitely a very, I don't know what molecule's responsible for that, but I'm glad that you mentioned drying. I mean, again, when you're drying the plant, when the plant is curing itself, it's doing two things. Again, it's losing moisture, but also the internal chemistry inside the trichome, which is no longer a viable chemical factory that it was.

3:15:07Dr Mark ScialdoneIs also changing in that as that the vesicle dries out and everything, it changes and rearranges its content such that, again, the drying process has a whole lot to do with the flavor, has a lot to do with probably, again, the terpene profile. Although I don't have any data to support that, I would imagine that that would certainly be the case just because you can taste it.

3:15:33KhalidYeah, no, I agree. I think the whole reason we find a lot better market with people who smoke hash and us traditionally smoking hash is people have that appreciation for a lower temperature nail so then they don't end up having that first visceral experience which kind of separates it for them. Because I think a lot of people's experience with CO2 is based on two things. It's not dried material that then gets water in it and in a lot of people's process and You can correct me if my terminology is wrong, but I think there's like hydrophobic and hydrophilic, but most CO2 processes are bonding what moisture they do get in, so it's even more important.

3:16:16KhalidAnd then you're smoking a lot of that moisture that's being volatilized as a vapor. Our process creates a hydrophobic environment. Again, I believe that's correct, but the water separates like oil and water traditionally do, which allows us to pour off the oil, but then also separate it. So for us, we generally just have a passive drying process that takes two or three weeks with a little bit of gentle agitation.

3:16:45KhalidAnd that's it. Because fortunately that water wants to release itself from the oil. But I know a lot of times the combination of burning some turps and getting moisture in a dab is enough to turn people off pretty heavily to CO2. So I try and I try and understand why people are hesitant to try things like that. But I do see companies that are making it with now I believe mostly propane and lighter hydrocarbons and they're doing a real similar process and people are slowly kind of opening up to the idea.

3:17:21KhalidBut traditionally BHO just has such a limited amount of terpenes unless they're high boiling terpenes that people don't really ever experience that harshness so it gives them a I think a different, you know, appreciation for the cleanliness of it, whether or not it's clean, and that can sometimes be a dangerous thing because if you're just judging something off of the smoothness of it, and that's not saying that smoking CO2 with water in it is safe or healthy for you.

3:17:48KhalidI said last week that my mom is a respiratory therapist and I think she'd be the first to argue smoking hot water vapors isn't something that you want to do. That's pretty damaging to your esophagus and to your To your lungs, so.

3:18:06Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, no, absolutely everything you're saying is spot on correct. Only the thing that I would add is, again, whenever you're vaping something at very high temperatures that a lot of these things, again, are going to decompose or a lot of these things are going to rearrange into other things. So whenever you look at how clean your extract is, If your nail is dirty or if you're, for whatever reasons, you're going to see a lot of thermal decomposition because a lot of these things just aren't that stable.

3:18:39Dr Mark ScialdoneThey just aren't. And what you're getting, again, when you look at the analysis, whether you're doing it by HPLC or by NMR, is what it looks like when you're smelling it at room temperature. That's different than when you're dabbing it at very high nail temperatures. It's just a different You're going to have chemistry going on.

3:18:58Etienne FontanThat test is also only a snapshot in time.

3:19:02Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's right. Even as the buds cure, it would be really interesting to look at to see how the profile changes because we know that THC will go to CBN. There's a natural oxidation process that happens on curing. And again, I think that that might be the suspect that I think that's responsible for the burnt popcorn taste that I think we're hearing about in rosin, which is heating it up such that the THC molecule is being oxidized up to CBN.

3:19:40Dr Mark ScialdoneBut that's just a hypothesis. I don't know if we have any data to support that.

3:19:52KhalidOkay. Hello. I'm sorry.

3:19:57SpeakerEverybody was quiet on that one, man.

3:20:00Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's the dating effect that CBN has on this crowd, right? Yeah.

3:20:05SpeakerHey, well, let's talk about it out loud then. You know, hey, there's CBD oil coming out of Europe right now because there's clean hemp growing, and obviously they're doing CO2 food-grade extraction, and I'm kind of tripping on it because... You know, some of the tests that Mishulam did back in the day were with single CBD and it was effective and now they're pulling, you know, CBD Express is a lot of hemp of all things and they're doing it, you know, in a food grade manner and I'd love to know what you guys think of some of the stuff.

3:20:37SpeakerI stuck a link in there where, you know, it's just, so there's a lot of BS CBD out on the market, of course, but These people are actually legit. They're in a clean lab. They're doing it at food grade. You know, they're growing literally thousands of hectares of hemp. Literally. Literally.

3:20:56Etienne FontanI'd be interested to see studies because, you know, I've only seen studies that show CBD and THC in combination together. I've not seen CBD exclusive tests that give us a... We haven't had a yay yet. So I think, again, this is where, as Khalid has stressed, you know, we're missing science, and this is, again, a place where I think we're also missing some science. So we need to actually do some research with laboratories here to see, because I have different patients.

3:21:29Etienne FontanI carry different varieties of CBD to THC ratios, but I haven't carried CBD exclusive because I have not seen test studies that show CBD-exclusive medicine works, but I have heard anecdotally that it does. So I'm, again, waiting for science to back that up. So if you have studies, I would love to have access to them to see as well as to educate the patients. They're the ones coming and driving us to find these genetics, to find these different ratios, these one-to-ones, these three-to-ones, these five-to-ones, these seven-to-ones, because of patient need, and then, again, to find products consistently made from them.

3:22:17Etienne FontanIf there was a product like what you're saying in Europe, like straight-pressed CBD, that was available, then, I mean, couldn't we then mix it with ratios of THC accordingly?

3:22:34Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat makes these strains happen is that they're just low THC cultivars where basically the enzyme that processes CVGA can either take one trip to make THC or it can take another trip to make CBD. These cultivars basically or these plant varieties Have basically just overexpressed one enzyme over the other. So they basically, they're high in CBD, low in THC. And I think most of like the work going on primarily that I know of in Colorado is based on the fact that now they don't need the same license and regulatory structure that say a THC grow would need where they would need, you know, security around the room, you know, cameras, everything has to be barcode everything.

3:23:24Dr Mark ScialdoneSome of these farms are actually growing low THC cannabis out in fields like they should be being grown in fields. In fields without cameras or security or anything like that because again they qualify because the plant is analyzing for that provision that's in the farm bill that says that if it's below 0.3% THC on the plant it qualifies as Industrial hemp, it's just low THC cannabis, right?

3:23:58Dr Mark ScialdoneSo when you process the oil from that, kind of like the dirty secret is, is that when you go through the oil of the concentrated step, now that level of THC is beyond 0.3% because now you've concentrated it. So those manufacturers, provided that they're putting it right into a product like a diluted oil or a salve, Or they cut it with some other vehicle, again, to keep the concentration of THC below 0.3%.

3:24:28Dr Mark ScialdoneThose products can now be sold legally coast to coast in the United States. They can be sold. They're on Amazon.com. Mary's Nutritionals is selling coast to coast. The Stanley Brothers are selling their rum and herring stuff, the Charlotte's Web stuff can be bought coast to coast. I think the thing that... You're referring to before, Todd, was that there are a lot of people who got into the CBD thing early and just were selling crushed seed oil from hemp plants and calling it CBD where there's no CBD in there at all.

3:25:04Dr Mark ScialdoneI think that that has already left the harbor. I don't think that that's going to happen again, but for patients who are seeing like Nia, for example, that was the little girl from Pittsburgh who had Gervais Syndrome. She's getting relief on a product that isn't completely void of THC, ATN. I mean, there's a little bit of THC in there, but it's just breeded at a level such that those farmers and those products can be made under the regulatory piece that's in place right now in Colorado, right?

3:25:41Dr Mark ScialdoneSo those can be farmed as... Low THC cannabis varieties or what's called hemp, right? So those are now then going into these products. And again, they're seeing really remarkable activity. There's very, very low THC in a lot of these strains. But I think the magic place, and I think people have recognized this, is taking the level of THC up a little bit closer to one to one.

3:26:08Dr Mark ScialdoneI think the one to one, you're going to see a lot more Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:26:39Dr Mark ScialdoneBut I think you're absolutely right. Science and clinical research needs to prove this out with a wide, statistically robust swath of the population.

3:26:49Etienne FontanThe patients tend to gravitate toward the one-to-one, but others have asked for different ratios. And again, a lot of patients have listened to Hash Church and are just finding out about CBD or just doing their research on the internet. So they come in and they're like, well, what do you have? What works for me, that's CBD. And it's like, well, I've got 15 to 1, I got 10 to 1, I got 8 to 1, I got 5 to 1, I got 1 to 1.

3:27:15Etienne FontanUnfortunately, you have to try and figure out which works for you. That's the reality of it. I can't, I'm not a doctor, I can't prescribe it, right? I can't just say, oh, just try this ratio, this ratio, this ratio. But I am noticing, because we do gather the data from what patients, and being that it is new, I have noticed the 1 to 1 ratio. So, ratio, and talking 1 to 1 ratio, Could you then distill this CBD and then add THC and, of course, terpenes accordingly to, or would that be viable?

3:27:53HoratioWell, I mean, it's a question to mark. It's a question I tied up. No, but Mark, when I was looking at that, I was looking at the fact that in some regions, yes, plants grow with the natural ratios innate within them, and naturally I'd prefer to extract those ratios as the plant decides them. And the medical triage region where I'm like, I don't have it, I can't buy it, and if I can, it's all a scam, why don't I extract hemp, concentrate CBD, and then start building ratios with my THC concentrated product?

3:28:25HoratioLike, I extract multiple different strains of weed but at the end of the test if I combine them there's no fucking CBD so it ends up being a THC concentrate but it's not Excuse me, it's not that it's meant to be, it's just that's all that's grown around here. It's bred out of existence. So my only way to create ratios would be to explore hemp, but exploring hemp opens up a whole new world of hurt because of how the hemp, it becomes wheat again.

3:28:52HoratioHow was it grown? What was it fed? If it's meant to suck up all of these nasties, I don't necessarily want to extract it. So the only kind of hemp I could consider is one I'd find in a grow room that somebody believed they should be growing for a child. To then say, well, what if I added 2% THC and up and up and up? Is it chemically possible to do the same compared to the synergy that happens when the plant builds it based on decisions about its environment?

3:29:20HoratioIt goes one way or it goes another way at a certain stage from CBG.

3:29:25BubblemanSomething to be mindful of, though, hemp's properties of phytoremediation and absorbing heavy metals and other things out of the soil, definitely something to be mindful of. Thanks for watching.

3:29:53SpeakerYou know, not to say the boogeyman exists everywhere, but this is Holland, and they've been growing their shit for 20 years, and this is where they grow their food, and they know what they're doing, they're an agricultural society.

3:30:03BubblemanOh, yeah, it wasn't in any way like a shot at where that hemp is grown, just in generally like where your hemp is grown.

3:30:11SpeakerThere's EU standards that Hempflax has been adhering to for two decades, you know, and it kind of blows my mind because...

3:30:19HoratioNot knocking that, because that's the thing I've learned about toxins is, I'm like, how come this didn't show up in the fucking dry sip? I sifted it, and it was perfect, then I washed it with a solvent, and black came out. But if I rosin the sift, black doesn't come out. It really becomes a question of hemp is really good at storing. So in the seeds, I don't expect it like I don't expect it in the trichome.

3:30:44HoratioI'm looking at the fact that everybody else is not in an agricultural society. Just like we can't eat the tomato stems, but we can eat the tomatoes because that's where the bad shit is. It's when you go to wash it and flush the whole experience versus the main constituents. So if they're growing it for seeds, it's not for flowers. And if you're growing it for flowers, you may consider a flush.

3:31:06HoratioThere's no flush in seeds. So Coming from being someone who's distilling multiple sources of weed and then finding, holy shit, this batch, there's some type of ooze in it that only shows up when you burn it and then try to recondense the burning shit. And I'm like, I don't understand, this wasn't here before. It becomes a concern because I'm going to get a message saying, hey man, I got some hemp for you, let's help the kids.

3:31:30HoratioAnd if I blindly just say, yeah man, let's do it, I could end up with fucking Eagle 20 on my shit, which is not anything that would show up on some... That's why I was almost considering, is it better to buy their hemp and then redistill it, because it may be up to some type of standard.

3:31:49SpeakerYou can. It's the basis of what all these EU CBDs are coming out of because what the first pass is is a CO2 extraction, you know, by the fucking silo size. I mean, it's, you know, literally if you were here and you had the wherewithal, I could literally get you like 10 tons to start with as a test and see if you like it because there's like, I think, 180,000 tons available to process.

3:32:13SpeakerSo now they're looking at processing it because... You know, the guy that owns Hempflax was on Hash Church last week and he's been watching all these CBD things and going, you know, fuck if it's helping kids. And we watched The Scientist and actually the reference to the CBD study that you want at ATN is actually in The Scientist because he talks about one of the very first studies on CBD which was an isolate and it had useful effects.

3:32:40SpeakerAnd it sucks that it got buried but, you know, here we are having the conversation some 40 years later. It's fascinating to think now that hemp, which is really a byproduct of a legal plant, could beget a legal medicine that could help people that are dealing with specific stuff, maybe seizures or what have you that it treats. It's impossible, according to FDA standards, to get out there and stand on a pedestal and say what CBD does, but people are trying it just like we've tried cannabis on our own way.

3:33:13SpeakerIt's helpful, and it's proving to be helpful, and if that's the case, wow, we have a huge source for it.

3:33:25HoratioYou're not really going to try to spin no tons to my residential doorstep. I just have a mold issue on my hands when it gets to Canada. But in some type of concentrated form, I do want to explore once it's refined down to just the cannabinoid, if remixing it with THC, which we're getting from traditional cannabis, Thank you for watching.

3:34:17Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know. What I'm thinking about, I mean, it's interesting when you're mentioning, again, to go back to the biosynthetic thing in the plant. I mean, again, the plant is responding to various insults or various environmental or chemical insults throughout its life, and it's responding. So it would be interesting, and again, this is where genomics ties in, is that If we know the genes that code for the synthase enzymes that either take CBGA to CBD or to THC, and we know what those genes are, we can look at an induced panel response where we can look at different nutrients or different times in the plant cycle when Thank you for joining us.

3:35:31Dr Mark ScialdoneTo answer ATN's original question is, can you make a synthetic ratio by just taking the ingredients and putting them together? Absolutely. But again, if we understand from a genomic point of view, the genes that code for those enzymes I think are known, and I think they've been cloned, which means that they have homology from strain to strain. So what we can do is look at various times in the plant cycle To when those genes are upregulated and when we see enhancement of those receptors and it might be a different nutrient or it might be a different sunlight pattern or it might be some other different stress that the plant is reacting to to selectively express those enzymes.

3:36:18Dr Mark ScialdoneBut it's a good question.

3:36:23SpeakerI'd like to point out that the way GW's inhalers work is they're using single expressing, plants that produce single expressive cannabinoids and they're mixing them together, so to speak, in the tube. So that way they get known amounts and they don't get inconsistency.

3:36:36Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I'm wondering if that's an economic thing, Todd. I'm wondering if that's an economic thing that they, the reason why that that's like that, that it would just be prohibitive to do it from two different strains. I don't know. What do you think?

3:36:53SpeakerUm,

3:36:56SpeakerWell, you know, see, this is what became interesting to me with BHO and such because suddenly it became a conversation about cannabinoids and not just about hash or grass or the nuance of the country, Nepal or Moroccan or what have you. And that's when it started hitting me like, wow, because when you start thinking about what you're smoking as a data sheet of, wow, look at this terpene profile and look at this.

3:37:22SpeakerAnd for me, for a little while, a friend of mine Thank you for watching.

3:37:35SpeakerAnd it gave me a different look at it. Suddenly I was like looking at how much sugar or how much wheat was in the brownie. And I started looking at my dab differently. And now I start to look at it like now we're collecting terpenes and we're seeing that that plays a pivotal role. And even when I've dabbed pure CBD to a large degree, I felt like Horatio said it.

3:37:59SpeakerIt made me feel better. My neck always hurts, so it made me feel better. Was it psychoactive? I felt like it was. In this way, I'm trying to learn. I'm not against us mixing cannabinoids together and trying to Thank you so much.

3:38:31SpeakerIf we can help alleviate people, that's kind of what the whole cannabis vibe is about, in my opinion. I'm not against any of it technologically. I love that we're sitting in different countries having this conversation, so go with science to a large degree. I realize we're learning so much. We're learning about the nuances of the cannabinoids and the way that they work together. We're learning about the terpenes, when they're there, when they're not there.

3:38:56SpeakerIt's actually a very intriguing time to be really into cannabis, in my opinion.

3:39:02HoratioI guess one weird thing I'd say is what makes cannabis so complicated to be like, yeah, we do this for this, is it's mental, physical, and spiritual. And even when we're playing with are the terpenes what's mental or are they what's spiritual, And is the cannabinoids what's physical or not? It becomes complicated. That's why when we say CBD treats seizures, what I found is a child with three types of seizures and THC works for one and it seems that this CBD cream the father gets works for another, but none are stopping the grandmas.

3:39:37HoratioAnd you realize, holy shit, I shouldn't say seizure like that because it's just basically saying generic convulsion of a type. And it's so complicated, especially with aggravated symptoms, that it is going to be the final frontier in medicine because if you can master administering cannabis in all its forms, you pretty much can understand anything that goes wrong with a human. And that's kind of why I'm... We're going in the 21st century, Horatio.

3:40:03SpeakerI think you just summed it up right there. Mapping the way cannabinoids help people. We were talking about this. Just like vitamins and minerals got into our bread and our foods and it became enriched with vitamins... What if they start enriching things with CBD because we realize we're not just joking when we talk about a cannabinoid deficiency because people that do have cannabinoid deficiencies are more prone to disease or if in effect when we get cannabinoids into our body we start correcting the problems that we're having not having them.

3:40:31SpeakerIt's weird as it may sound because we tripped on vitamins and minerals in the 30s and 40s. We tripped on essential fatty acids in the 60s and 70s, and we're still learning. And I think now we're tripping onto really CBDA and cannabinoids being in our supply of food. How crazy is that? But I think it might be true.

3:40:51HoratioIt's complicated medicine. We can have two brands. Your brand is you bred a 15 to 1 CBD strain and you extract it purely and that's your product and I'm like, fuck that. I read a patent. I'm just going to take one syringe of this and 15 syringes of those, put them together and challenge your product in the marketplace and then you have a person who really might only respond to your product and then a bunch of people who may get general relief from my product.

3:41:16HoratioIt's Thank you for watching.

3:41:37HoratioAnd how that would work in redefining all of that psychotherapy and why it may not have worked because it didn't bring a person to a point of honesty, which is something we can't measure why we does this to a person or that to a person.

3:41:52SpeakerYou know, totally off for a sec, though, you've got to Google Cary Grant on acid, and it actually has this great story about before LSD was illegal, this psychiatrist in Los Angeles who was actually doing his appointments with guys like Cary Grant and Anita Sinan and others, They would come in in a controlled environment and he would give them the LSD and he would keep track of their settings.

3:42:17SpeakerDr. Oscar Janigler, I think was his name now that it comes back to me, but it's utterly fascinating. I wonder if that's going to be the next step, how people respond to cannabis in a psychologically sound environment.

3:42:29HoratioThat is exactly what I was trying to pull out of Greenspoon because I'm like, dude, LSD and mescaline had a 50% recovery rate when you were taken in with a guide when dealing with alcoholism. Cannabis could have that same frontier. And I don't think you really got my question because it brings up so much that only happened before LSD was blocked. And the leading psychotherapists were, they all took it and they all understood how to use it.

3:42:56HoratioThat's where I got that data. That's why I saved the LSD for my father to try to cure his alcoholism, because you take them on a unique journey. And that's why I wondered, I'm like, is 5,000 milligrams of CBN the same thing as a deep heroin trip? Trip could be pulled people out of major things when paired with the art of mental illness, which kind of just plays the major role of even recreation.

3:43:20SpeakerWell, can I ask the panel a question then? And it says, if CBD is not psychoactive, what's the point of decarboxylating it?

3:43:30BubblemanWell, I think that, you know, regardless of what our definition of whether it's psychoactive or not psychoactive, there's definitely going to be a chemical difference between the loss of that carboxylic acid ring, the active version versus the non-active version. I personally can't say that I've taken a lot of pure CBD and Thank you so much for joining us today. We'll be right back.

3:44:19Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're going to talk a little bit about the C-B-1 receptor. It's a very important receptor. When you lose it, it enables passage through the blood-brain barrier where the C-B-1 receptor is highly expressed. To get the high that you get when you smoke or when you dab, it needs to be decarboxylated because it needs to be able to pass through the blood-brain barrier. It turns out the carboxylic acid is too polar, so it doesn't necessarily go from the blood into the brain where the receptor is.

3:44:48Dr Mark ScialdoneNow you brought up a good point, Todd. So does CBD need to be activated to be active medicinally? And I don't know that that's been figured out specifically for a variety of different conditions. But I can tell you that all of the CBD products that I've seen or that I'm familiar with have all been decarboxylated and they've all been thermally done so they mostly drive the

3:45:20Dr Mark ScialdoneI've had this conversation a couple of times with some people in regards to CBD though and THC.

3:45:35KhalidI know that Dr. Kimran Degrassi from Steep Hill and two other of their chemists and then some of my own research It seems like, because our product, the Rossio 2 that we make, because we make it in a cold process and we're trying so hard to retain terpenes, ours is all THCA. And so when I first saw a lot of the other concentrates that were being made and coming from having made BHO, I wanted to know, should I be doing something with this oil to try and decarboxylate it or to change it?

3:46:09KhalidAnd the answer that I got was a resounding no, and it was for two reasons. One was, He said to make a THC active or a CBD active isolate is something, first of all, that industry can do, but then also that you're setting yourself up for quicker breakdown because once you have complete decarboxylation, then you can only break down from there. But then also, he was saying, and at the time they had an old Halent Lab poster up, and I'll try and find it for one of these weeks for you guys to Post up, but it shows all of the things that THC treats and THC acid in particular.

3:46:52KhalidAnd I'd have to look back at it because at the time the conversation was mostly for THC, but it also did have CBD acid specifically. But THC acid, when you eat it, as it breaks down into THC, something about the conversion or the absorption of the acid helps as an anti-inflammatory. And one of the guys who works there in particularly, he had to restrict his diet greatly.

3:47:20KhalidHe was all of a sudden getting a lot of inter-inflammatory issues and had to switch to an all raw diet and raw vegetables. And Dr. Kimron actually made for him a THC acid pressed, you know, juice that was all THC acid and it was the acid that was the only thing Or the THCA, the pure acid that was able to help relieve the inflammation internally. And it was to the point where he was having extended bouts of constipation and wasn't able to eat because his insides were so inflamed.

3:47:58KhalidAnd so, I mean, it was a pretty extreme case. But in the same way, the acid was important there. So I would think that CBD acid has to have some benefit. And there's definitely a question for me to go around and ask next week Because I do specifically remember THC acid being a big block of it, but that CBD acid did have specific things it was supposed to aid.

3:48:23Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, the other thing I could comment on is that the carboxylic acid in general is going to make it more polar. It's actually going to make it more highly recognized by We're going to talk a little bit about CBD. CBD is a very common substance. It's a very common substance. It's a very common substance. It's a very common substance. It's a very common substance. It's a very common substance.

3:48:48Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's a very common substance. It's a very common substance. It's a very common substance.

3:49:02Dr Mark ScialdoneIt basically scrambles into four different compounds. This is, again, well-known. There hasn't been work in humans, but there has been work basically in animals to basically show that, yes, CBD is degraded in the GI. For the most part, again, most of the degradation that happens is because it's trying to either become a soluble carbon source for the body, We're going to talk a little bit about some of the things that we're going to talk about today.

3:49:32Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're going to talk a little bit about some of the things that we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about some of the things that we're going to

3:49:57Dr Mark ScialdoneEveryone is different depending on their genes, depending on their diet, depending on what illnesses or what medical conditions they have. And so it's very, very difficult to make generalizations without having full-blown clinical data to support it.

3:50:21BubblemanSorry, I'm just reading the chat right now, trying to keep up with everyone in the chat. Still got 550 people in there right now listening and enjoying.

3:50:32SpeakerMy next dumb question is does when we heat up, because if you heat EFAs up in food, we damage the essential fatty acids. In a sense, is that what's happened? Because we heat up to decarboxylate, are we damaging? Obviously, we are changing because we're looking at it chemically, but I wonder now, as a food If we want, like we want EFAs raw, if we want CBDA just as, there's so much to learn.

3:50:59Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I think you want as much, again, for like a cancer patient, somebody who's just trying to increase their amount of cannabinoids in their body, I think they want both. I think they want activated and unactivated cannabinoids. I think they would want raw juice cannabinoids. I think they would want cannabinoids in a sublingual Again, that can be absorbed into the circulatory system without having to go through metabolic digestion in the gut because, you know, the gut, you've got to remember the stomach.

3:51:31Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd this is, again, part of the lure of the pharmaceutical industry is that they got people to believe that there's a pill you can take whenever you don't feel good. And that pill, which is going to go into your stomach, which is a big chemical reactor that usually tears apart a lot of the molecules of what you put in. What you put in there, it's amazing that any orally active drug works at all.

3:51:58Dr Mark ScialdoneI looked at my dad and my father-in-law take a handful of medication every day, like six pills. This is for this, and this is for gout, and this is for Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back.

3:52:34Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us today. We'll be right back after this break. We'll be right back after this break.

3:53:03SpeakerAll right. Well, it basically essentially turns into 11-hydroxy metabolite, and it is what's found in your bloodstream when you eat cannabis, but not when you smoke cannabis. What I'm wondering is if there's a first-pass effect with CBD. I don't know of it as I know of 11-hydroxy, because that's why when you smoke, Dr.

3:53:26Dr Mark ScialdoneIt goes to the same derivative. It goes to the 11-hydroxy CBD derivative. It's the same metabolic chemistry. CBD is prone to the same metabolic degradation as THC in the liver.

3:53:39SpeakerDr. I wonder if that's interesting because I solely estimate that it's two to five times more psychoactive than THC when you smoke it in your bloodstream, 11-hydroxy, that is. Which is why a lot of people, when they eat cannabis, they get a lot more amplified of an effect. But I wonder, when you say it with CBD, I wonder what the 11, I've never heard of 11-hydroxy cannabidiol, to be honest.

3:54:05Dr Mark ScialdoneDr. Yeah, I mean, that's absolutely right. What you're saying, Todd, is absolutely right. That's why the guy who ate too much of an edible had to take off the next day at work, right? Because he just overwhelmed Dr. What happens when it makes that hydroxy group on the 11, what used to be a methyl group now becomes a hydroxy group. In the next step, a sugar hooks up to that, and that molecule now becomes totally water-soluble, and that molecule leaves the kidney and goes into the urine.

3:54:43SpeakerDo you know any studies on CBD when it then goes through this effect? Because then all CBD we consume is going through the first packed effect, and all of it would be this, whatever this is, whatever 11-hydroxy equivalent of it is in CBD land. I don't know. I'll have to learn, so tune back.

3:55:02Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm not sure that that work has been done, but I would think, again, chemically, there's no reason to believe why CBD wouldn't undergo the same fate as THC. I don't know. There is work that's been looked at on the pharmacokinetics of CBD and looking at extending the pharmacokinetics and looking at its duration of profile release in different forms. I think they were looking at gelatins or other types of forms.

3:55:34Dr Mark ScialdoneBut essentially there is some work that's out there in the literature on this right now. I can certainly pull it up if I can find it.

3:55:46SpeakerI'll make a note of it.

3:55:49Dr Mark ScialdoneI got homework to do. I'll make a note of it.

3:55:53SpeakerThank you, everybody. It's nice to bounce ideas off you. I'm kind of out here tripping on things a little bit because when you see the scale of what's happening and you start looking at the promise of CBD, and I've always believed in CBD, but I didn't believe in a lot of the hustlers that were selling bullshit, snake oil and stuff. But when it comes from a legitimate source, and I've used it, and I feel like it's been useful to me, so maybe that's why I believe in it in a way.

3:56:18SpeakerYeah. First-hand, that's why we're all here really talking about cannabis, truly. We have a first-hand experience with it.

3:56:28HoratioWell, we've lived up the repercussions of discarding one part of the plant or another is not what we want. So, I mean, we're going to go in loops and loops and loops of going back to the plant and going, oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't pay any attention to THCV, I need a whole THCV plant because it's stopping this, this, or this. So, it's going to be a never-ending loop of our human egotism deciding this is what matters and then life bringing up some other shit and Then something else matters.

3:56:57HoratioThat's kind of why I looked at the triage and I'm like, how close would putting two cannabinoids from different sources together be compared to Mother Nature? Is it 50% as effective? Because that might be still way better than nothing to start with as everybody kind of grows up in different regions. Like look, you're over in Europe where all the hemp is that could be clean and safe to use and we're over here with all the extraction tech and no hemp that's clean and safe to use.

3:57:28SpeakerNo, they have the extraction technology here. I mean, this is the thing, Rachel, is that we're really not reinventing the wheel with any of these extraction technologies. It's really just the same as they do with a ton of other food, infusing our water with terpenes that they get from fucking rose petals. I mean, this is really what they're doing. And, you know, now it's just another process because for almost 17, 18 years, they've Thank you so much for joining us.

3:58:18SpeakerI think cannabis is doing the same thing. Even when these jerks try to mitigate its usefulness, it's still useful and it's blowing my mind.

3:58:28Dr Mark ScialdoneInsert Jerry Garcia and take out Mother Teresa and you'll be all good.

3:58:33SpeakerWell, he's cool, too. I like Jerry, too. But, you know, hey, he would have been down with Mother Teresa, too. I mean, that old lady was pretty hot, man. She did some good things pretty selflessly. And I think cannabis works for humanity in a selfless way because we've been, as a group, kind of beating it down, I could say, for a little while. There's been only a few of us that have been like, hey, maybe we should be looking at this.

3:58:55SpeakerAnd they've locked us up and raided our houses and stolen our crops only repetitively. So, yeah. I think cannabis is winning. There's a little sign in the bulldog. I was in the bulldog yesterday, and there's no tobacco. Cannabis is totally okay, but you can't smoke tobacco. Twenty years ago, tobacco ruled. It's like not that I'm a prohibitionist, but when you realize the size of big tobacco and how they have spent so much to keep hemp and cannabis down, the fact that they lost This huge war is amazing to me that now, you know, the only thing you could smoke here and even in San Francisco, there are no smoking policies, no smoking anything but medical cannabis.

3:59:40SpeakerPretty funny. People listening can look it up.

3:59:42BubblemanIt's awesome. The one thing I hated about Amsterdam for years was the amount of tobacco smoke that was everywhere from like at my breakfast to my lunch to my dinner, everywhere in between, all my clothes. We're so disgusting at the end of the night that it was just like they were done. I couldn't wear those again until they were washed or until the trip was over. And that's sort of a thing of the past.

4:00:07SpeakerClean air everywhere. People are very air conscious now.

4:00:11HoratioWhat do you think about cannabis that people smoke cigarettes around in the grow room? I think it absolutely is... Detrimental, like I know, I just know how to use nicotine as a poison, so I'm like, you can't smoke cigarettes here, like dude, you can't, five minutes in a car with you and my jacket's fucked, these plants are fucked. It's the burnt result that's on it, not even the tobacco unburnt, but the burnt mixed up result as a fallout.

4:00:39BubblemanYeah, it's definitely not good at all, it's definitely not like something that you should be doing. Smoke away from your plants. Don't even smoke. How about that?

4:00:48Dr Mark ScialdoneDr. Actually, nicotine's a really good insecticide.

4:00:52SpeakerNo. It's been prohibited since 1906. It's been prohibited as a pesticide since 1906.

4:00:59Dr Mark ScialdoneDr. Yeah, it's really toxic. There's just better insecticides that are out there, but it's one of those things that, again, It kills.

4:01:08SpeakerIt really kills. Hey, 700,000 people, yeah, can't be wrong, right?

4:01:13Dr Mark ScialdoneWhen you look at the structure and you realize that basically when you heat this up it decomposes to make again something that is going to be cancer causing. Some of the most noxious materials we know come out of the degrade and that's because these things contain nitrogen and that's the difference between tobacco and cannabis is that most of the essential oil components in cannabis don't contain nitrogen.

4:01:37BubblemanI think also the radioactive nucleotides that they spray, i.e. radium-226, that's got to be a big sort of responsible for cancer. I mean, it's a radioactive nucleotide. It causes healthy DNA to mutate. That's pretty much what it does. It's present in tobacco. When you burn it, it expands into many, many, many compounds. But the two that you can Google that freaked me out were polonium-210 and lead-210.

4:02:06BubblemanAnd just long half-lives and bad, nasty things that seemingly would be insane to even want to be close to, let alone inhale them into your lungs and then breathe them all over your loved ones and family.

4:02:21HoratioWell, you can imagine with my vaping, I won't vape in my lab, I won't vape around my plants. I'm like, you know what, if you want to kill yourself in the cleanest, kill yourself way, you still can't spread that. Like, my family will give me grief. They're like, I know you're going to live longer, but it's still... Everything falls out. That's kind of why I had such a big concern.

4:02:41HoratioI'm like, this is a raining cloud of fallout that it sticks to the plant like it sticks to your clothes. But one last thing I want to ask you, Mark. Now, would you agree with me that terpenes are going to be the final frontier in pest management with cannabis? Because cannabis isn't, you could say, as long as the terpenes are clean, they're not susceptible to You can say degradation by exposure to them.

4:03:07HoratioIs that possible?

4:03:14Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know. This mark or that mark?

4:03:17HoratioYou, the one with patents for terpenes on insects.

4:03:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Well, I mean, there's a lot of terpenes that essentially, so insects use terpenes in their secretions to basically As a way of communicating, they don't have a vocal language like we do. They have to communicate by basically using these chemicals. Some of those chemicals, it's ironic that you find some of the same terpenes in plants that you find in some of these insect secretions. I don't think that's a big mystery.

4:03:55Dr Mark ScialdoneIt just has to say that, again, these arthropods or these insects co-evolve with these plants And again, there's different chemical cues that different plants have that create, again, different ecological pressure on that gene pool. And the most notable connection, again, is the catmint thing. You know, catmint, the essential oil of catmint is enriched with nipetalactone, which is the sort of cannabinoids for cats. It also very much resembles a lot of molecules that are found in the iridoid class of bicyclic lactones that are found in insect secretion.

4:04:45Dr Mark ScialdoneAgain, I don't think that that's a mistake in evolution. Those things didn't just co-evolve. They co-evolved interacting with each other just like humans co-evolved with the cannabis plant. And how the internal endocannabinoid system that we have interacts with these molecules that are in this particular plant. I think there's going to be keys that are going to be, we're going to find out why and understand a little bit more what could be the evolutionary underpinning of why certain plants have certain molecules and not others.

4:05:25Dr Mark ScialdoneI always find the fungi really fascinating because again, Here's a kind of life. I mean, fungi are so diverse from one another. They have their own kingdom, okay? I mean, they're just huge. And fungi are extremely important to our life, and they're extremely important to the plant's life. And again, there's all kinds of soil chemistry that's going on with microbes and fungi in the soil that's absolutely required for healthy plants.

4:05:57Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so these things are all related to one another. And again, we're finding more and more out every day on how important it is to look at the overall environment that the plant is living in to give it its best possible environment.

4:06:14HoratioI wanted to bring it up just because I use terpenes in so many ways. There's Bowman's ready to press. You're going to have a rosin shoulder after a day of work in that material.

4:06:26BubblemanYou know what? With the press, it's not a problem at all, but you guys just keep talking. I'm just going to press a little bit of this beautifulness out for the day.

4:06:34HoratioWell, like, Mark Scaldone, like, so I use eugenol, thymol, limonene, and cedar oil in combination, and I fog that into structures to destroy. It's the most, like, all-encompassing area encoding method I can think of.

4:06:53Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. Are you doing it?

4:06:55HoratioWell, that's what... Are you diluting that? I dilute it in an oil. So, like, let's say I may use the vegetable glycerin in my vaporizer. And then I'll, you know, it's using a heated sprayer, so it's fogging it hot. But when I gas a building, I can go from like a moldy, wet structure to in two days, all I smell is the faint hint of cloves. And that building just needs to like now be shuffled and all the objects move and remediated two more times to pull like such a kill rate on mold.

4:07:28HoratioI'm going to be using it in between cycles, but I wondered about exposing plants to that because the terpenes would be no different than the ones already being secreted. They're only protected by a wax membrane, meaning if I got terpenes on my leaf in a fine mist, would they naturally evaporate or would I eat my plant? Basically, yeah, would I extract my plant with fog? I love it.

4:07:52Dr Mark ScialdoneAromatherapy for buildings, right? Aromatherapy for buildings. What a cool concept. It would be great to have a passive system in there that essentially can deliver either it's terpenes or I don't know. To me, again, you have to look at if you're misting this into a room where there's going to be people or there's going to be humans or traffic and it's going to get on surfaces and stuff like that.

4:08:19Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know if that's the best... Best way to administer it, but it'd be good to actually do it with the plant itself, right? Well, this was two parts.

4:08:30HoratioIt was one part, if we weren't using carbon filters and all that shit, with the natural off-gapsing of terpenes in the room already be suppressing these insects, that because we remove them from the room, the insects can come in. That was one part. Basically, if cannabis didn't smell like hell, would it even be better at protecting itself? And then two, comparing it to somebody going, well, I only use sulfur in veg, I'm like, well, then I can't see how limonene on the surface could be fucking worse than that, especially in veg.

4:09:00HoratioJust basically being able to reset the room the day before flower versus all these things that are acceptable to spray. I mean, I really don't like foliar feeding because I don't want residual of newts on my leaf surface to carry forward. But In the case of natural terpenes, I thought, you know, compared to what people are doing, it might actually be very viable, even if it was, yeah, at a surficant level.

4:09:26Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, the beautiful thing is, you know, it's biologically related, so it's like using neem oil for insect control. I mean, it's hopefully something that's not going to be detrimental to the plant in a toxic way, like a synthetic pesticide. Thank you for joining us today.

4:10:06Dr Mark ScialdoneBut Horatio, isn't it true? Limonene, I think, has some insect repellency. I don't think it's an insecticide, but people for years have used all types of citrus extracts as ways of not killing insects but repelling them. There's a very, very different fundamental mechanism if you're talking about the way an insect repellent works versus We're going to talk a little bit about insect repellent and insecticide. An insect repellent somehow confuses the chemical cues that the insects are looking at to zone in on a movement or be attracted to a particular plant.

4:10:52Dr Mark ScialdoneSome molecules, and I've always heard that what's in tomato plants, so that characteristic smell of your tomato garden when you're walking through a tomato garden is All of this is hexene. One hexene, which is just a simple hydrocarbon molecule, has a very, very potent effect that they actually pipe it from tomato grows into other grows for its insect repellency effect because, again, tomato plants don't seem to be affected by some of the insects that attack other plants.

4:11:29HoratioYou're absolutely correct in saying repellent versus kill. If I want to kill a wasp nest with limonene, it's going to take a liter, but I really just extracted their joint.

4:11:42Dr Mark ScialdoneTake the bottle, throw it on the nest, and light it on fire, and that's how you do it.

4:11:47HoratioI mean, that's just extracting their joints so that they lose all their oil. Like, that's a different way of attacking an insect. That's, again, like neem, it really just disturbs them to break down. I'm talking about where, like, yeah, I'll go around the outside of my building, my door, under my structures, into the face of any intakes, and spread those terpenes as both a repellent and an anti-mold.

4:12:08HoratioBecause in the case of anti-fungal, then those terpenes are working at a different level. We're fogging them into... Everything in your light fixtures has a potential to be beneficial compared to just repelling insects from coming in in the first place. It's just like you basically just gave us another one. Basically, if you can get the extract from tomatoes and have that off gas in your grow room, you're basically, your room will start bleeding extra repellency and you don't have to have it touch the plant at all.

4:12:37Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, right. And you're not killing them, you're just repelling them to your neighbor's grove.

4:12:52HoratioIs that worth something, Todd? I mean, the fact that integrative pest management may not even be in the end about dealing with ladybug poop, but really the fact we haven't grown a bunch of tomatoes and once a week grind them all up and leave them in a bucket to off-gas, like there's so much more when we embrace all of nature through cannabis being the gateway.

4:13:14SpeakerYou know, it's funny because the Emperor Wears No Clothes was like a hub of reality for me that didn't, you know, because I studied, I paid pretty close attention in school to history and science and stuff that I found very fascinating, which, you know, but hemp when I started learning about it in an odd way became this connectivity. To everything else I found interesting, like learning what they made paper from before they made it from trees, and the fact that there was all this information about a cotton gin, but they don't really talk about what we were wearing or what the sales were made out of before cotton.

4:13:46SpeakerAnd when I started learning about all this, this was the nexus for me to learn about foods and EFAs. Thank you so much for joining us.

4:14:09SpeakerFor me, for decades and decades now, and I still find it utterly fascinating how much every single day I am absolutely learning so much more about this utterly fascinating plant. And it's kind of revealing itself to us in a sense. We think we're so smart and, you know, supposedly we went to the moon, but we know so friggin' little about this plant that we've had this symbiotic relationship with for, oh, fucking ever.

4:14:39SpeakerAnd I think it's really ironic, to say the least. So, could be just stoned in Amsterdam and feeling philosophical, but it is possible. Someone was just here. My cannabinoid levels are not down, I can honestly say that.

4:14:59BubblemanHit it up, hit it up, time to rip that bong. Let's all get along.

4:15:06SpeakerYeah. City's magical, man. But yeah, hemp, who would have thought? CBD medicine. You know, what if it does become a food product? Like, we want vitamin D, we want CBD in our bread. How crazy is that going to be if that's around the corner? Wow, that's a loud sound. That's not me. How was that?

4:15:33Dr Mark ScialdoneWho was that?

4:15:36SpeakerWasn't my fire alarm this time.

4:15:39HoratioIt came on like wrong answer, Todd, and just interrupted, and I was like, what the fuck? Sound effects?

4:15:47BubblemanWhat the fuck?

4:15:50SpeakerThat's some bullshit right there. Hey, I'm surprised this thing works at all, to be honest. You're right. Yeah. What are we talking about? Fucking strings on a fucking wire over here. Oh, what did I just squish?

4:16:06BubblemanI just squished some of this bubble hash. It's called Lindsay OG, and it has a beautiful nose and a beautiful color to it. It self-clumps, so you can really see that it's got its quality on par. It melts on the nail. It's really quite nice. I mean, it's got to be between a four and a five star. I really probably should just be dabbing it as is.

4:16:32BubblemanBut God, it turned so nice when I squished it. It just turned to this super high grade, like, orangey-yellow, like, perfection. And the taste is on point. Strong as fuck. Really quite nice, I have to say. I'm enjoying it.

4:16:54BubblemanNo ifs, ands, or buts about it. I am enjoying it. Let me try and get this page closed. It doesn't seem to want to close on my... I think I know what that sound was now. I think I had punched in YouTube and put like a Y where it didn't belong, and it was like one of those websites that tries to scam you by grabbing, oh, that's what I'm doing wrong.

4:17:15BubblemanI'm going to YouTube in the first place. You know, all this time, Mark, all I've been trying to do for the last five minutes is Is to end the show with your song. I was just going to put your video on, but... Oh, really? Yeah, my fucking computer is like so choked up by all the things that I'm doing. It's like running 12 seconds behind itself, and it's a little annoying.

4:17:43BubblemanWell, thanks everyone for coming out today. Looks like Mark's tuning the music, so we'll take us out with a little hash church. I appreciate everyone's time and everything that you do for Hash Church and all the people that watch and listen. Thank you so much. Mark, the floor is yours. Play us out, buddy.

4:18:01Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, really? I have to play this?

4:18:04BubblemanWell, I thought when you started playing guitar that you were kind of saying, you know what? I'm fucking here right now, bro. We don't need to play.

4:18:11Dr Mark ScialdoneCan you hear that?

4:18:12BubblemanI hear that.

4:18:15Dr Mark ScialdoneGreat.

4:18:17SamanthaYes?

4:18:19BubblemanYeah, go. Give her.

4:18:23SpeakerAre you going to sing along? Yes, we can love this.

4:18:29Dr Mark ScialdoneYes, we can love this.

4:18:50Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's me, Cannabis.

4:18:52SpeakerIt's me, Cannabis.

4:18:54Dr Mark ScialdoneAll Cash Church. Got Bob Land. Talkin' bout fake cash.

4:19:00SpeakerGot duration. Talkin' bout chemistry.

4:19:19Dr Mark ScialdoneAnthony, talking about policy, ATN, getting out the medicine, and Nicky B, at the dispensary,

4:19:49Dr Mark ScialdoneWe got so much to say about THC on Hatch Church. On Hatch Church. On Hatch Church.

4:19:56SpeakerOn Hatch Church.

4:19:57Dr Mark ScialdoneCuban Grower.

4:20:18Dr Mark ScialdoneMaking the dry sin pass. Better every time. Speaking philosophy. We got to try and concave. Showing us a better way. Jen Doe in the church. There you are, Jen.

4:20:48Dr Mark ScialdoneWe got so much to say about the cannabis plant on Hash Church.

4:20:52SpeakerOn Hash Church.

4:20:53Dr Mark ScialdoneOn Hash Church.

4:21:13Dr Mark ScialdonePeace out, everybody. Thanks for watching. Thanks for coming in.