Cannabis Competitions and Industry Standards

0:03BubblemanHello everybody. Welcome to this beautiful Sunday morning in beautiful British Columbia for Hash Church episode 54. If you can imagine it, we are on episode 54. Just pushing through into the second year. I'm going to send out my links here and make sure everything else is deleted so you can't hear them. There we go. There we go. Awesome. Sending out the links here nice and early. Good morning, Hash Church, Ali, Zone, me, Kush, Michael Boudreau, Sal Chatino.

0:37BubblemanWe got Cuban holding down the chat today in the YouTube chat. And yeah, hello to everyone. Yuggs, Derese, Evergreen, Silver Buddha, Steve O. Burns, Michael Boudreau, I think I said your name twice. And of course, I look at the chat and there's ATN. Thank you, ATN, for showing up and not leaving me hanging.

1:00SpeakerHi, Betty. How you doing?

1:02BubblemanOh, good, man. I tell you, I'm always like, I just like when someone shows up right away. It's like you see the link, you click on it, and boom, there you are.

1:12SpeakerI appreciate that. Well, you know it's working and that everything's making its waves through how it should be. So good morning, everybody. Hope everybody's doing good out there in Hashland.

1:23BubblemanYes, we've got Thomas. We've got Johnny B. We've got Big Truck Driver. Everyone's saying what's up, Etienne, in the Hash Church chat.

1:34SpeakerRight on, right on. Not much happening in California. We're still waiting to find out if the governor is going to sign the new laws since they're from his office. Most likely they're going to, but he can also allow them to become law by not signing them. We have heard rumor that they don't want to do the whole dog and pony show. So that's all we know right now, status quo.

1:59SpeakerHi Mark, good morning.

2:03BubblemanYes, good morning Mark Scaldone. How are you doing this fine, fine morning? Maybe internet connection problems, maybe not, I don't know, but welcome nonetheless.

2:12SpeakerWe are saying hello to you, Mark, Mr. Serious. What are you puffing on this morning there, Mr. Mark, Mr. Marcus?

2:22BubblemanMr. Skeldone or Mr. Bubble? Mr. Marcus. Mr. Marcus, that's me. Well, I have a variety of beautiful things and I'll just get right into it because I know those guys are watching right now. I met some really great guys recently in Vancouver called the West Coast Concentrate. I actually brought me a little t-shirt, so I'll throw up their logo on Hash Church.

2:45SpeakerThere's the West Coast Concentrate, and these are their hashtags. I actually brought me a little t-shirt, so I'll throw up their logo on Hash Church.

2:58BubblemanI think I'm coming through loud on the YouTube chat. So what they did was they brought me a care package. They kept telling me, man, you're like our skunk man, Sam. You taught us everything about this. They're young and upcomers. They're like 25-year-old dudes. They started making hash four months ago. And so they brought me a whole variety of things here in the rosin category. So they have, what do we got here?

3:25BubblemanIf we can get that light to, okay, here we go. We've got the PC crossed with the MS. We've got the Bubba Rosin, good old Bubba. Bubba would be proud. We've got the Bubba x Hindu Kush Rosin. We've got the Green Crack God Rosin. We have the Hindu Kush, which I have to say, this is really fucking delicious. It's unique, it's different, it's not what you would expect.

3:52BubblemanAnd that was just like a gram of each that they brought me as a gift. And then, of course, they were like, we want to bring you some of our full melt patch as well. So they brought me these beautiful little jars, all marked on the names and dates they made it at. This one is the Green Crack God 73 Micron. We've got some Green Crack God Full Spectrum, which is all the microns.

4:15BubblemanJack and Blue Full Spectrum. Purple Candy. 73 Micron and some Purple Candy Full Spectrum. So, very excited to... Gene, where do you choose from?

4:28SpeakerWhere do you start? Do you just start at the left and work your way to the right?

4:33BubblemanYeah, you know me, dude. I'm going to hit them all. I'm going to hit them all and it's just... I just wanted to give them a mad shout out. Go check those fucking guys out on their Instagram accounts and whatnot. West Coast Concentrate. I think one is West Coast Connoisseur and one is West Coast Melts. Look into it. Check them out. They're fucking good dudes. And they're making the fire for sure.

4:55BubblemanSo it's nice to see. People that are up and coming, I've always said this, that water hash is a no-brainer, that you don't have to be making it for 10 or 15 years, that I can teach people how to make it and control the variables in a very short period of time, and people that are very good at making water hash, they don't always like hearing me say that, but it's true, and guys like this that have been making it for less than four months are total and complete proof.

5:21BubblemanAll you really need is the understanding and the knowledge, and of course, the most important factor, The Fire. So, you know, props to Phil, who I invited this morning. Phil, who used to be True Genetics and then became Sakana. He is working with the West Coast Concentrate crew, and I believe he is actually in that crew, so good for them. Good morning, Jem Aqualob. Good morning, good morning.

5:51BubblemanEveryone, good morning. Let's start with a bowl. Are you going to say hi to us, Mark? We've been saying hi to you.

5:56SpeakerI know, you hater. I'm sorry. My thing was lagging or something. Am I coming through okay? Can you guys hear me? Your thing is not lagging. Okay, my thing is not lagging. Oh, that's good. Good morning, everybody.

6:11BubblemanGood morning, Mark. Good morning, Mark. Are you dabalicious today?

6:15SpeakerYes, I'm wearing my Brendan Dabbs handout from Cannabis Cup when we were out there in the parking lot of the Cow Palace. Yeah, there's the dabalicious hat for you. So as we all know, Brendan makes the fire. Yeah, dabalicious, good stuff. The guy used to actually work for BPG back in the day. Yeah. He inadvertently got fired for fighting in the parking lot. So I'm inadvertently kind of happy that happened so that he went off and made his wonderful hash.

6:43SpeakerLove you, Brendan. He's a great, wonderfully talented guy. He really is. A sweet guy, too. Right? He's making some fire hash, that's for sure.

6:54BubblemanWell, good for him. Yeah, he's here not too long ago. I got to enjoy some time with Brandon and Allison. They came up for this little Cannabis Economy show that we did, Horatio and I did, oh, it must be a couple of months now, but God, is that looking sweet! Yeah, it looks nice.

7:17SpeakerThat looks fire. Oh, it's absolutely fire. Allison was on last week, but we didn't really hear too much from her, did we?

7:26BubblemanI know. It was such a wild thing to have her on and not hear much from her, because she's a talker. Oh, yes, she is. Allison can talk, and I was so looking forward to what she had to say, and it just... You know what? How many times do we invite a new person into church... And have that exact situation happen.

7:46SpeakerThey got a lot to say about the cannabis plant.

7:51BubblemanThat sounded like your song.

7:53SpeakerThe song wrote itself.

7:54BubblemanI know. Even when you just said that, we got a lot to say about the cannabis song. I heard the song in my head. That's an awesome part.

8:03SpeakerYeah, so we're still working with Freddie, the sound engineer, to lay it in some more tracks. And we're thinking about putting in actually some horns. And female vocals, but it's really sounding really, really, really good and really, really polished. So I think in a couple weeks here we'll have a ready for prime time listenable version that sounds really good.

8:25BubblemanWell, fucking A, that's awesome. I was going to say I talked to Aaron from DNA today. I actually talked to Aaron and Don. Don was kind of in the background, but we said, hey, what's up to him as well. And those guys are currently in Ontario. Of course, for those of you that haven't seen, they recently signed with the Tweed Bedrocan merger. DNA is going to go help them out in regards to doing what DNA does, selecting fire and producing fire.

8:54BubblemanSo he said he wasn't going to be able to make it into church today, but he wanted me to say this. Please let the world know. We are trying to improve the quality of the medicinal herb in Canada and work with Tweed to breed some new proprietary, in conjunction with them too, strains. Not to mention selecting the best from their existing seed stock of DNA and others.

9:16BubblemanSo that was a little statement he wanted everyone to know and pass out as there were some obvious haters when you jump on board with the big boys. I like the idea that the big boys have gathered a gem from our industry. It's hard to say anything about DNA. Those guys have represented since 2004 when they hit the scene, and they've just been gobbling up the competitions ever since, so it's kind of hard to...

9:42SpeakerThe industry relying on those who have been purveyors of history as well. It's nice to see them not showing out and ignoring them and going to people who are established... Geneticists. So kudos, Canada. Way to go. That's a great step in the right direction.

10:01BubblemanBong. Rip. Let's do it. Welcome D420K in the house. I'm about to hit some of this West Coast concentrate. Let's rip it up. I'm going to hit some of the West Coast concentrate as well. Those boys are awesome.

10:24BubblemanAh, the tortoise. Love the tortoise.

10:31SpeakerGoing straight fab, I mean straight today.

10:34BubblemanNice, dude. Nice big tall straight fab.

10:38SpeakerYeah, that's my go-to daily. I usually break out my egg for...

10:46BubblemanI haven't hit my straight fab in a while. It's been a while to say the least.

10:52SpeakerI, uh... I saw you were playing your clear and working on some elite. Did you find one?

11:00BubblemanI was going to flip these clears. I thought at one point in time when you have like 10 grand worth of clear mother chips, you get to the point where you realize these are prototype pots that I've spent $10,000 on. And so I'm at the point now where I kind of want to trade my clears in and get myself one nice elite.

11:21SpeakerI don't blame you. Yeah, it's kind of funny. We're not even sponsored by Mothership, yet we all own Motherships. People are like, oh, it must be the Mothership crew there. It's like, no, we just like good-tasting cannabis, and we found a good pipe that does so, and we all went out and bought them ourselves, you know?

11:38BubblemanYou can't deny how amazing they are, that's for sure. They've definitely got a very beautiful perk, and all of them, I love hitting all of them. I've never hit a Mothership that I was like, oh, I don't like this one. Like, I like all of them.

11:53SpeakerI love my mothership. I love my motherships, plural. Yeah, I don't know. I've looked into those elites, but man, you're talking five figures. That makes me nervous. But I appreciate the art, and I mean, I realize what all goes into those. I used to work at the largest head shop in America back in the 90s. And so we used to sell, you know, bongs anywhere from $100 up to $5,000 to $6,000.

12:22SpeakerBut that was mostly soft glass pull stuff. It wasn't production like this. But we used to have the Jerome Baker motherships. Now, those were huge worked pieces with very large marbles. It was the top of the line for them. And those sold, I remember back in the day, they were up there in the... Quite a few, over 500, I want to say even close to 1,000 sometimes, depending on the marble and what was in them.

12:50SpeakerThey were thick, thick diameter glass too, all worked all the way through too. So they were the high end of the line for Jerome Baker designs, but they are not Mothership. They're separate companies altogether. It's just a name of a line for Jerome Baker, whereas Mothership has, of course, their, Mothership is Mothership.

13:14BubblemanHoratio was saying that his link wasn't working today. He was saying, I don't think the group link worked. I was going to say I sent that link out to 25 people and three people clicked on it and came in.

13:28BubblemanSo I don't know if people are just not... Yeah, it worked for me anyway and it worked for you guys.

13:36SpeakerBut always remember you've got to be up to date with your Google. Have it up to date. You know, up to date in the morning because they will change that stuff in the middle of the night. I tried to sign in and I have multiple Google accounts and right before getting in here I couldn't get in because it was in my business account and not in my personal account.

13:54SpeakerSo, technical difficulties can ensue and be the slightest thing. So, got to be on your game, people.

14:01BubblemanWelcome, Mauricio. I'm going to send you out again anyway nonetheless just to make sure that Skunk Man, Sam, and Rob Clark, I believe, are together right now, and they said they were going to come in and talk about Europeans and talk breeding and talk all these interesting things, so we'll try to make sure that they get back in. Oh, good. Hello, Horatio.

14:24MauricioI'm glad that that worked out.

14:25BubblemanHappy belated birthday to Horatio, who celebrated his Earth strong sometime between this Sunday and last Sunday. And I thought it was a good one, didn't it?

14:36SpeakerBone ripped to that. Even I forget now. I'm like, it must have been Wednesday. I'm not one for birthdays. Everyone kind of pushes it on you. I'm like, you know, for my birthday, one year, everyone will forget it, and that's what I want, but it'll never happen.

14:52BubblemanYou have to change it on Facebook if you want people to forget it.

14:56SpeakerHappy birthday, belated Horatio. Oh, you know how mothers and grandmothers, they'll hack into your phone, they'll call your aunt, the neighbor to come over and talk to you. It's inevitable.

15:07BubblemanAbsolutely. Well, you know what, as a father of watching a couple of kids be born, three men total, I have to say that no doubters are never going to be forgetting about that. A birthday is truly like your mother's birthday as much as it is your birthday. It's pretty heavy when you get to see such a thing.

15:28SpeakerWell, every parent gets through that day where, you know, you can't help but your kids are going to forget yours. I was like, oh my God, I don't know my niece's birthday. I started thinking about how many birthdays I don't know and I'm like, okay, you kind of hold the top five to ten in your head and that's it. Facebook handles the rest. Mark, were you physically present for the birth of your children?

15:52BubblemanI was physically present for the birth of my children and I also caught all three of my children and cut their umbilical cords. Two of them I did at my house and one I did at a hospital. My wife is an unbelievable trooper. She did the... Home births the first two times with no drugs.

16:13SpeakerYes, I was there for both. Two cesarean, one emergency cesarean after 13 hours of labor, and one planned cesarean that was completely a different experience. I was in the operating room for both and have both on video too. Yeah, we've got the video. I haven't ever watched it. You can't do any more. They don't let you unless you can bring your phone in there. Thank you for joining us.

17:03SpeakerDelicate and it's so fragile and it's such an intricate process that has to go only a certain way. Well, think about that next time you're stuck in traffic. Every motherfucker gets here this way. So it's a pretty robust process, the birthing process. Man, what a cool thing that Mishulam touched on in his film there about the embryo and It's just amazing to think that the endocannabinoid system is what's responsible in the pregnant mother for not rejecting the embryo as being a foreign invading object.

17:43SpeakerThat's just absolutely fascinating. Well, that's epic science there. That should have been literally ran up the flagpole and danced around upon, but of course they're not going to talk about that. I'm telling you, they're going to pronounce it. They're going to announce the Nobel prizes in chemistry and physics this week and medicine. That's all going to come out this week in the popular literature. You'll hear a lot about it in the press.

18:09SpeakerHe won't get it this year, but I really do think that the endocannabinoid system is of Nobel medicine worthiness. He's gotten all the other awards. He's gotten the Rothschild Award. He's gotten All the awards, Nobel's like the only one left, and as long as he stays alive, there's no question that the impact that the discovery of the endocannabinoid system has on science and human health far surpasses some of the existing prizes that have already been awarded.

18:44BubblemanGo ahead, Horatio.

18:46SpeakerI was just going to say, is that kind of the nail in the coffin, the fact they won't give the Nobel Peace Prize out because that would put it into undeniable science? Not the Nobel Peace Prize. I think it would be the Nobel Prize in Medicine would be the discovery. Sorry, pardon me, that Peace Prize name just kind of swamps the whole subject every time that you think it's the only prize.

19:09SpeakerEverything is piece of cake. Nobel Prize in Medicine is a very substantial... Top award in the medical field. I mean, when you win a Nobel in medicine, you're talking about things that change people's lives incredibly, and there's certainly nothing that parallels this. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what they announce this week. The announcements come out this week.

19:33BubblemanOne of the things that blew me away as well, Mark, in conjunction with that embryo accepting theory of Mishulam, was when Dr. David Allen talked about cannabinoids in the breast milk inducing suckling in children. That's like another so heavy, like that's the original munchies. And it's like they made it a stereotype, but it's actually how we live. Because if you've ever been in a hospital when a baby will not hatch, that's some scary shit.

20:03SpeakerThe baby can't, they get freaked out. Absolutely. The most provocative speculation that I've found. First of all, everybody, I don't know if we can post that link. Somebody needs to post that link because that is just an incredible thing. It should almost be required watching for Hash Church. You should need to watch this hour and a half video. Absolutely required watching. But what he ends up with is absolutely fascinating, which is the notion that everyone's personality is based on a different Thank you so much for joining us.

21:00SpeakerInherited traits through DNA is carried out through protein synthesis through RNA, which is then manifested in the different traits that different human beings have and all life has. But the fascinating thing is that are the different personalities that I have and that Todd has and Horatio, is this a manifestation of different Endocannabinoid profiles and how our brains and how we react to different situations, whether it's under stress or under happiness or how we react and how our bodily naturally reacts and how supplementation with phytocannabinoids also affects that.

21:45SpeakerIt's absolutely fascinating. Everybody should watch that movie.

21:52BubblemanAbsolutely. They're just talking about it in the chat now, in the YouTube chat. So that is The Scientist. You guys can check it out. I think there's a YouTube link to it in the Hash Church group, but you'd easily be able to punch it into YouTube yourself, and I'm certain that it will come up.

22:10SpeakerAnd Dr. Mishulam's alive. I've actually reached out to him and talked to him via LinkedIn, oddly enough. We can get him on Hash. I don't think he wants to come here. Oh, I'll try, though.

22:26BubblemanOne day. I think we're nothing to scoff at. Hey, welcome, Sarah Sunday and Todd McCormick in the house.

22:35Sarah SundayHi, Sarah.

22:37BubblemanSarah's throwing the Karma Cup. I guess the Karma Cup just started, what, yesterday, Sarah? Yeah.

22:46SpeakerYes, it's, yeah, we gave out the bags yesterday. We actually had to make 15,000 samples, which was ridiculous. It was like about over 400 man hours of work. Pretty crazy. So we just gave out the bags, which are like a huge sample bag, plus all the swag and everything yesterday. So they get to judge for two weeks. The lounge is open for them to come in and hang out and do their thing and judge.

23:13SpeakerEverybody's judging online and on Instagram.

23:16BubblemanAnd then they fill out... Did you say they get to judge for two weeks?

23:24SpeakerYeah, two weeks so that you can make a proper assessment because we got 100 entries. So there's no way you can do 100 entries in a short period of time. Even two weeks is probably hard, right? That's pretty legit.

23:36Sarah SundayThat's pretty legit. Yes.

23:39SpeakerI'm super pleased. It's actually only our second year, so I'm really happy that the community has recognized what I'm trying to do here and is supporting it.

23:51BubblemanYeah, that's very cool. I actually ended up in Ontario last year at the Karma Cup, and it was very roots. It was very like I knew a lot of people in the room. It was like it was so loose and happy. Everyone was just like having, there was no seriousness. No one was like, Being real serious, and I bet you that is going to change this year with how much people have stepped up and how many people want to try and attain, you know, the Karma Cup trophy or whatnot.

24:17BubblemanIt seems, I heard there was over 100 entries.

24:22SpeakerYeah, we got exactly 100 entries this year. There's like over 50, there's over 50 bud, there's like 18 edibles, there's like 15, 16, something like that. Exact numbers are failing me due to still having sleep deprivation of shatter. Like we've got butts like five or six butters. Only the non-solvent showing was somewhat lacking, let's say. There's only about five or six. So hopefully we can do more to promote that and get the healthy alternative and the quality alternative further promoted and included in the cup next year.

25:02SpeakerYou're on.

25:06BubblemanWelcome, welcome Bubba Rob.

25:08Sarah SundayWe can hear you, Rob.

25:12MauricioWe can hear you, Rob.

25:18SpeakerHi, Rob. Can you hear us, Rob? Can you hear anything from me?

25:25MauricioCan you hear us, Rob?

25:26SpeakerNo noise from anybody else. Let's see.

25:30MauricioThis is a classic scientist.

25:33SpeakerHi, Rob. Good to see you, buddy. Ah. Turn up the volume. Noise. Noise.

25:43MauricioYes. Hello.

25:45SpeakerCan you hear me?

25:47MauricioYes, Rob. We can hear you mumbling and everything.

25:51SpeakerNo, that wasn't Rob mumbling. That was me mumbling. Sam, this is great stuff right here. Howdy, Todd.

26:00MauricioHowdy, brother.

26:03BubblemanHey, welcome, guys. We were just hearing a little bit about the Karma Cup, a big event happening in Canada, a little competition. And Sarah was just telling us there was 100 entries, and she's giving them two weeks to judge.

26:20SpeakerYes. Yes, we are. Good idea.

26:26SpeakerYeah, we're judging on lots of different criteria too to try to create a more considered evaluation of the samples rather than just sort of I liked it or I didn't like it. Yeah, basically it's a pretty fun event. I'm trying to find right now my list of all the entries so that I can let you know the exact numbers, but my brain is not working quite well yet.

26:56BubblemanYou know, it's almost like an event like this, it could only happen with the way social media is happening right now, because the way you have two weeks to give these packets out to all these people and the way they're going to photograph and literally photobomb their social medias for the next two weeks straight, it really will allow a lot of other people to be a part of the event, which is not something that is normally happening at events.

27:22BubblemanEvents are usually so quick. Forget about two weeks to judge. Sometimes we have two hours and it's a different sort of judging that you make when you don't get to wake and bake with your top five picks or you don't get to finish the day with one and see how it stands up against a full day of hardcore puffing. You're really limited to these moments in time that you happen to be hitting that particular strain and whatever variables are going on.

27:50BubblemanSo yeah, I'm pretty stoked about that. That's pretty cool, Sarah.

27:57SpeakerVery cool, very cool. I am too, actually. I've got 15 indicas, 19 hybrids, 12 sativas, 15 shatter, 7 butter, I believe 5 solventless, 18 edibles, and 9 topicals. And then there's 16 heady glass pieces that are on display at Borrowheads that can be judged as well. Were the samples tested?

28:32SpeakerYes, I had them all tested at a lab in Ontario called Canpharmica. And all the solvent samples tested clean under 50 ppm, under 20 ppm or less. And we didn't find any QA issues in terms of quality and mold and stuff like that. And I'll have all the test results, like final certificates, shortly. And after the competition ends, I'll put them on the web and give them to the competitor as well.

29:09BubblemanDamn, that sounds like you're taking care of business over there, Sarah.

29:14SpeakerYes, I am.

29:15BubblemanThat's the point. Very good, very good. Well, it's nice to see, you know, it's nice to see that the bar is getting set higher and higher. I'm always happy to see people setting that bar higher for the... For the competitions and such, and we haven't had, I guess we have had some here in Canada, but they've never really, since the Tokers Bowl anyway, it's been hard to get that bar set again that high, so I definitely... Is there anything that's been done for pesticides or mold for these samples?

29:46SpeakerWe tested for mold, but not pesticides.

29:51SpeakerWhat's the policy on pesticide use? I didn't test for them. I was unable to test for them. The lab that I used didn't test for them. So that's probably an evolution. Like next year hopefully the lab will be equipped and we'll be able to work something out. Like last year I didn't have testing at all. This year I have testing. It's an evolutionary process. We found that for sure.

30:13SpeakerIt's a step-by-step process. We could only get initially THC, then CBD, and then when we were able to reach out to like the guys at UC Davis, then they already had the spectrum for 21 different types of pesticides, so then we're able to add those. So yes, it's a step-by-step process as the lab is able to get and isolate those samples. So definitely always push for them, and you have to kind of push your lab to go in that direction and tell them that you're willing to pay for it in the future.

30:43SpeakerI was wondering, ATN, if you want to comment on the fact that we're hearing about so much of this in the news these days, especially in Colorado and around Denver, that they're finding pesticides, particularly in concentrate, because again, if it's on the plant and it's going to be concentrated, it'll be in concentrated form in the concentrate, and certainly, like some of these products, Thank you so much for joining us.

31:33SpeakerWell, if your grower knows

32:02Speakerand reject them because you can actually have the science to prove it. That's your best asset. Just to sit back and say, yeah, let's kind of hope. No, like I said, you really have to put up the money. You have to research. You have to actually, you know, really push your laboratory to really get up to those standards because most laboratories out there are only doing the THC testing.

32:27SpeakerAnd the biggest problem that we have is, you know, We're dealing in an agricultural state, so we have to deal with all kinds of situations. It's all about making sure that that spectral analysis is available to your laboratory and that your laboratory is actually going to go there. This is absolutely a huge issue. ATN, Mark, hi everybody. In California especially, but anywhere where cannabis is being overproduced.

33:01SpeakerATN Mark, do either of you have data showing different pesticide levels and samples? I'm not interested in the name of the... The guy who submitted the sample or what the variety was or anything else. I'd just be interested in seeing the occurrence and levels of different pesticides and samples that have been collected anywhere, in any state. I can get some of those for you and I'll bring them next week to Ash Church so I can show you or if you'd like I can email you some.

33:28SpeakerYeah, I was just trying from the Denver Post article by Richard Baca that described Thank you so much for joining us.

33:50SpeakerSo I know that there's a list of forbidden ones, and certainly I think you can use integrated pest management in a way that you're not actually applying these harmful chemicals to your flowers that you're going to be selling, right? Absolutely. Basically the agricultural chemicals that are approved for integrated pest management are not harmful to the beneficials and fairly lightweight in general, but certainly not harmful to mammals.

34:21SpeakerThe big issue to me is that, at least in the state of California, you have no control whatsoever. You have advice from the state government to farmers, normal farmers, through farm bureaus and through Farm and feed shops and places where they give you advice and they ask you what you're going to use it for and if you're going to use it for the wrong thing they suggest that you not do it.

34:48SpeakerIt's fairly informal. It's not really a police state in California about pesticides, but they come with some horse sense normally. The grow room supply shops are run like Mom and pop pet stores, you know, there's nobody telling them what to do. They get illicitly packaged Avid and Fluoramide and all these things that we tell you in the Netherlands, you can't buy these without a spray permit. You can't store them without lock and key.

35:23SpeakerThese things are deadly poisonous, you know. That said, when they tested the coffee shops here...

35:31Speaker54% had pesticides or fungicides. Yeah, even here in the Netherlands. Can you hear that? Yeah. That's why we reached out to an agricultural university and found that these guys were already doing that testing. So that's why it was a natural step for us to actually reach out and grab them and bring them into the discussion because they already had the spectral analysis. So If anybody is thinking about doing this, I highly recommend in your local state to reach out to your agricultural university because they usually have a lot of that information or have access or would know who would.

36:10SpeakerAm I correct, Rob? That should be it. It's a state issue rather than a federal one as far as I understand it. What we need to be, of course, is self-policing.

36:21MauricioWell, I want to be not too rude and say that I think it's happening everywhere cannabis is being grown commercially. I think everybody that starts investing money into equipment and time and plants and then starts seeing bugs and problems, they almost, what are they supposed to, you know, this is the problem. We don't have good policing in our own industry, and we see this happening everywhere. I don't think it's a California thing or a Colorado thing.

36:46SpeakerI always speak about California because that's where I'm from and that's where I visit the most. But you're absolutely right. It's something we need to take care of ourselves. The more and more we grow, it's a self-fulfilling problem. The more and more you grow, the lower and lower the price. The lower and lower the price, the less you can afford to toss a crop. Thank you for watching.

37:27MauricioBut let me throw this out, just to be devil's advocate, we've had a quasi-legal market in Amsterdam for 30 years, since 84, 85, really going back even further, but since the mid-80s, coffee shops have been selling out the front door in tax, and it has done nothing to clean up the industry in Holland at all, when it comes to pesticide use, fungicides, and things that are bad.

37:53SpeakerBut that's because they don't have a market that actually pushes and tests it. Right now, as far as I know, Berkeley is the only city in the United States that actually makes sure that you actually test everything before it hits the floor. So it can't have something like Mahatma happen where it comes back positive after the fact, after it's hit the floor. So, I mean, a lot of education and a lot of work still needs to happen, even in regulated societies.

38:18SpeakerBut going back to what, Mark, what you were saying, At least they're using it. At least they're finding these things. Science is being used. We are finding these things. Before, that wouldn't have been an issue. We have to self-police. I get to quietly return it to somebody. I don't get to publicly humiliate them through the media and say, blah did this and blah did that. That's a whole other industry regulation.

38:43SpeakerAnd I think what I think, Todd, you wish had happened in the Netherlands so that everybody was held to a standard so they couldn't skirt You know, the illegality is because they're growing in small conditions wherever they can, however they can, whenever they can. Growing medical cannabis, as I say, growing cannabis is easy. Growing medical grade cannabis is hard. Growing medical grade cannabis consistently is an art.

39:11MauricioI don't want to make it into that big of a thing. I mean, people produce food all the time that's organic, falls under organic standards. I mean, it can be done. I don't personally understand why cannabis, other than prohibition, costs more than tomatoes. They flower at about the same time, don't they, Rob? How long does it take for a tomato to fully form on the vine?

39:30SpeakerIt's a lot easier to grow cannabis than it is to grow tomatoes. You might be able to get a little bit more weight of tomatoes in a given area. Yeah, you might get more tomatoes in a given area. Okay, but... They get blossom end rot. They get all kinds of problems. They're really a pain in the butt to grow. You don't get a lot per kilo for it.

39:47SpeakerNah. But you can eat them.

39:51BubblemanI remember in Lugano when Breeders Steve had his tents, these tunnels, and he rented them from a tomato farmer who had tomatoes growing next to Steve's sweet tooth and all these beautiful strains. And when the guy found out what Steve was getting per kilo, he almost fell over. Like he just couldn't even wrap his head around ever getting that much for his tomatoes.

40:25SpeakerWhen commercial growers get a hold of cannabis when it's not a gray area thing anymore but it all settles out. You'll be surprised how inexpensive it'll be to grow a kind, but it's just another agricultural product at that point. Yep, true enough. $100 for a 70-year-old Christmas tree.

40:50Sarah SundayThat's more work than cannabis.

40:56BubblemanGood old cannabis. We love the cannabis.

40:58SpeakerSo Rob and Sam, what are you guys puffing on right now?

41:05SpeakerI don't know, some BHO-y stuff. It's pretty.

41:12SpeakerWhat's it supposed to be made from? Candy push or something? It's candy push. Oh, is it focused that close? Kind of not. Yeah, we can see it. Tiny piece. Anyway, it works. You know me and BHO, it's not my favorite thing. So what are you smoking on, Rob? I just actually haven't been smoking much anything the last few weeks. I've been in Turkey. And since I got back here, it's been sort of, you know, same old stuff.

41:45SpeakerBut, yeah, I was in Turkey where I don't smoke at all for the sake of caution and staying out of jail and all that kind of stuff.

41:56BubblemanNo preservation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

42:00SpeakerWhat's going on? We've all seen that prison movie about Turkey. Oh yeah, Midnight Express, what a classic.

42:08MauricioThe scariest fucking movie I've seen. Scariest movie of my childhood, that movie right there.

42:15SpeakerI think it was probably the first thing I ever saw about Turkey. That was rough. Yeah, when I saw they'll stab you from the waist down and it's legal, I was like, I don't think I'm going to Turkey. Yeah. Well, it's actually a wonderful place. I just did a 15-day road trip with two really nice ladies and went to lots of villages and talked to lots of old ladies about what they used to do or what their mothers used to do in case maybe.

42:47SpeakerSo it was nice. Weavers, rope makers, all that stuff.

42:52BubblemanVery cool. Tracking down the history of that particular area's hemp and other textile histories?

43:03SpeakerYeah, actually, it's all about hemp, but the history there basically boils down to rope makers who were making nautical ropes for, well, since the 15th century, Ottoman naval stuff. And they still made those kind of ropes up until just a few years ago. And now the whole thing's kind of come to an end. But the rope making was the last vestige of what was going on. Women haven't really woven grain sacks and rugs and things for about 40, 50 years in those places.

43:39SpeakerWas that Turkish grown hemp? Yes, yes. All of it was grown right in the neighborhood. A lot of the hemp for the weavings and things was grown right in the women's gardens at They did it right close to home and close to a water source, of course. Most of it was grown even closer to home than a lot of the food. It's interesting. It's the same land race they're used for hemp and also was back in the day used for hashish.

44:09SpeakerThere weren't varieties for one or the other, as I might have assumed. It wasn't like a Manchurian strain, per se. No, and it wasn't like in Nepal. No, it was more like in Nepal where they use the same variety for rubbing hashish, but they also get seeds and make textiles out of it. It's not really strong stuff. It's not specifically selected for being really strong dope in most cases.

44:35SpeakerIt might have been in certain areas where they made hashish and were legendary for it, some part of Turkey unknown today, but... Yeah, basically when they threshed out the seeds they kept the powder and that was what they ended up having.

44:53MauricioHow many of the plants like Nepal were dual use, industrial and hashish? How many regions I should say were dual use plants?

45:03SpeakerIf it was like that in Turkey as I suspect, that would be the only other place besides Nepal where I know of. Three uses of drugs, seed, and fiber, all three taken from the same standing crop. Not the same thing grown three different ways, but taken from the same crop. And that, for seed and fiber, of course, that's really common. But for crossing over to the drug side, that's rare.

45:33SpeakerNow, I would assume that back in the day, since subsistence farmers even today waste absolutely nothing in the produce of their daily lives, that they used plants, cannabis crops, all three ways, if they were interested in the drug side. Yeah, why not? And there was some THC in it. Yeah, there was some THC in it, but the real abnormal, the European hemp varieties we know today are abnormally low in THC because they've been bred to be that way.

46:04SpeakerI mean, just, you know, that's part of the deal. They're not very strong sativas to begin with. Who knows what the, we'll find out maybe from the Phylos Project what Turkish varieties are, you know, if you're Afghan hybrids with something or Indian hybrids with European? Maybe they're really an Indica Sativa hybrid. It could be one of the only true ones.

46:29MauricioNow I have a stupid question. It's sativas or industrial Indo-European hemp varieties that came over to North America that we find in Nebraska, the stuff that made the canvas for the covered wagons that went west. Is this stuff, it was never bred to be low THC per se, correct? Back hundreds of years ago.

46:48SpeakerNow I'm talking about the modern French and Hungarian and other varieties that have had to satisfy the EU regulations of being below THC. .2%, blah, blah, blah.

47:04BubblemanSorry, Todd, you got muted. Your mic, Rob is reverberating through your mic very badly. Let me turn mine off.

47:15BubblemanGo ahead, Todd.

47:17MauricioOkay, my question is, is the Indo-European hemp varieties around the time of Columbus, those stuff that came over to America, 1500s, 1600s, even 1700s, there wasn't a cotton gin until 1791. So all this stuff was never bred for its cannabinoid levels. The pre-EU standards, the THC content was never a conversation in picking for sativas, as we call them. Then my dumb question is, why is a lot of the feral hemp in Nebraska bunk weed?

47:52SpeakerI think from my understanding, before Rob starts here, the Manchurian strain that was grown was a very just tall, lanky, because hemp is grown 300 to 400 seed per square meter. You're talking about a very densely grown plant as opposed to the drug varietal, which is grown, given usually a little more space. For some reason, I'm not sure why genetically it went the way that it did, but most of what is out there feral has just grown so tight and so densely.

48:26SpeakerAs far as I know, it's a Manchurian strain originally, Rob?

48:33SpeakerYou need to unmute yourself, Rob.

48:37BubblemanI might be able to do it.

48:38SpeakerThere we go.

48:40BubblemanHe's got it.

48:40SpeakerI don't know about it being a Manchurian strain. There were plenty of Chinese varieties that were brought into the North American hemp gene pool. And those, in fact, back to what Todd was saying first. He's correct. What you see escaped in the Midwest is one of either two things. It's either European hemp that came here, And was sativa, European sativa, what's called narrow-leafed hemp varieties. They were the basic colonial cannabis, if you will.

49:21SpeakerAnd after that came breeding experiments, not to lower THC content, but certainly using plants that had a low drug content. And some of those came from China. And that's what really led to Kentucky hemp, for instance, which is a Chinese... European hybrids. They didn't know about THC until 1964. How could they breed THC out? It wasn't even described in the chemical literature. They didn't breed THC out.

49:51SpeakerThey started with gene pools that lacked THC to begin with.

50:07SpeakerWhether they were Chinese gene pools or they were European gene pools, they were not selected for high THC content by drug cultures.

50:20MauricioAnd I could have said instead of THC, I could have said psychoactive effect easily because that's really what, they never really took that into consideration when they were breeding varieties that they would later use for sails or for ropes or for paints and varnishes or for clothing. I was just wondering if growing it industrial meant that the stuff turned into a lower cannabinoid level. Naturally, I don't think that spacing like ATN inferred has anything to do with the chemical level of the flower at the end of the growth.

50:52SpeakerNo, it doesn't. Napoli hemp crops are grown, hemp seed and drug crops are grown in very narrow spacing. That's so they can get the hemp stalks that they need for the textiles. They grow them farther apart, the fiber would be useless. So it's part of the growing them for all three crops. The same thing would hold in turkey if that's the way they did it, which I think they probably did back in the day.

51:22SpeakerRob, were those crops self-seeded from the harvesting and making a mess, or did they actually pick a plant and then hold those seeds and then try to Like replant, was it all self-seeding? Because that's kind of why I thought the more the tall thin plants succeed, the more that seed gets spread back to the soil and year after year, tall thinner plants become the entire crop and that would be a form of breeding.

51:48SpeakerSure, there's various unconscious selection if you will. Even if, maybe not the correct term, but people aren't directly being plant breeders and picking one parent. They're applying all kinds of different selective pressures to the crop as a whole, to the populations. And if, it depends on what they're doing, to answer your question. If people are collecting seeds from tall, skinny plants, Collecting seeds from tall, skinny plants and shaking the seeds out and collecting the powder, that kind of selection is maybe not so important.

52:38SpeakerThey've batched together pretty much the entire crop, except the males, which died by that point if they haven't been taken out and used for fiber. And if they're, for instance... Growing them for rope use, as I just saw, the way those farmers did it is they would go after they'd taken the hemp in August before it's really flowered much, when all the stalks have a good fiber content and they can work the whole crop as one uniform batch, they take those plants, they're pre-flowering, and around the edge of the field where plants have a few branches anyway, They leave those plants for seed.

53:18SpeakerThis is how Hmong growers in Southeast Asia do it. It's how the Koreans used to do it. Probably how lots and lots of groups did it. They take the fiber first and they get the seeds later. But they're not people who also use the plants for drug use. That's the third factor you're throwing in there. So in that case, in the case of these rope growers, when I asked them in Turkey, they said, yeah, we'd go back in in September and we'd pull out all the plants we didn't want and we'd leave the ones that were The biggest and the greenest, they said.

53:52SpeakerSo those are the ones that are yielding the most seed, and the ones that are still vigorous late in the year, and maybe even later maturing than ones that have started to pass away. So, yeah, it depends on what they're growing it for, which selective pressures would be important. That's kind of what I thought. I know of so many harvesting practices where the knife you use happens to create a certain vibration that spreads the seeds in a good pattern so that they're reseeding their crop as they're harvesting it.

54:25SpeakerSo I'm thinking of all the different uses that could go into naturally driving the plant in one direction or another. Like you said, if everyone's harvesting early, there are no seeds to self hit the ground after harvest. So it would make a big difference what they're using to Pretty much perpetuate on their crop than someone who's harvesting and shaking the plant and always losing a percent to the soil.

54:48SpeakerWell, and don't they want to harvest the seed for the seed oil? I mean, I would only assume that you're going to want to grab as much of that seed oil as you possibly can. And the seed protein, I mean, the seed is really the golden nugget in the crop, isn't it? Yeah, even if they're only going to re-sow seeds, it's still an outcome that they need.

55:13SpeakerYou know, the seeds are precious. The concept that they go back on the ground and there's volunteers that come up unselected by the farmer, that's probably not likely. They rotation planted hemp, at least in Turkey, and they did most places too. It's a great soil conditioner. It's a much more economic source of protein than is soybean. If you look at the life cycle analysis between soybean and hemp, hemp seed wins hands down.

55:46SpeakerIt's just a matter of time before that really makes its way to processed foods worldwide as the source of protein because it's cheaper than soybean. And more abundant. And actually more healthy too because it has the higher of the polyunsaturated.

56:09SpeakerYeah, it's good food. That's not however really the emphasis where I just was. I never found anybody who made hemp seed oil. They did eat the seeds. They never went to waste. But they basically just parched them usually along with barley. They ate them as a snack, which they still do. Now, tragically enough, though, they don't grow the hemp seeds very much in Turkey anymore at all.

56:34SpeakerThey have them in the markets, but they import them from, as the traders thought, they come by ship, I think from India or Pakistan. That's right. India basically is the market corner, and it goes mostly, I've found very surprisingly, into animal feed. Again, it's a very cheap source of protein. That they can use to supplement alfalfa and oats that are basically fed to animals for animal husbandry.

57:02SpeakerDo you know where they grow these seed crops in India? I was wondering that when they were telling me this. I think it's mostly in the moderate equatorial region. The Punjab region of India is sort of one of the classical agricultural areas where I'm absolutely certain that, again, there's just wild All around on the roadside, Rob, just as you're driving through the countryside, it's just growing everywhere.

57:28SpeakerEverywhere. Yeah, yeah. This is pretty small seeds, most of it. It was not even as big as the local seeds, which was kind of interesting to me. It could be relatively wild stuff. That's what it implies, usually. Bigger the more the hand demands. Yeah, yeah, I would agree. Yeah. I think the varieties that they're actually intentionally farming for oil and for seed purpose, for seed flower, is a much different variety than what's growing wild.

57:59SpeakerYeah, it's kind of sad that the cultural momentum to eat hemp seeds is still there. You can still buy them in the markets, big bags of them, but they can't grow their own conveniently or economically or whatever. It's not illegal to grow hemp seeds or hemp in Turkey. It just takes a lesson. Tell them what you're doing. Something's got to change. This is actually a convenient point to bring up what I saw from Lyon Laughlin's Twitter post this week, which is he's a hemp farmer in Colorado.

58:33SpeakerWho's grown a crop that apparently analyzes at .5% and the state is telling him that they need to dispose of this crop. It can't be used commercially because it's analyzing at .5 and not .3, which is the arbitrary cutoff. Ridiculous. Absolutely fucking ridiculous to have to throw away an entire crop. Now again, the margin of error in making an HPLC measurement You know, it depends on how the sample is handled and how it's dried.

59:07SpeakerAnd obviously, anybody who's ever done any testing on a plant will tell you that the top will analyze very different than the bottom of the plant. So these state testers are basically going after the tops of the plant. That have the highest resin content, and okay, they're finding slightly out of spec, higher THCA content than allowed, so now the crop is officially deemed marijuana and not hemp anymore.

59:37SpeakerThat has always been my frustration with them, relying on the French EU seed with that arbitrary number, because it is exactly that arbitrary. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rob, but I mean, we found when we actually started doing experiments with hemp, we found even high-grade cannabis can make some really nice hemp. Yeah, it depends on, when you're trying to make hemp, it depends on how you're growing it.

1:00:01SpeakerIt's back to that. Oh, of course. No, without a doubt. Maybe it's THC content, but it is going to make tall hemp. Skinny stems, if that's what you want to do. God's number one had a higher fiber content than many industrial varieties when tested by Dr. Bocha. Yes, exactly what I was going to say, Dr. Bocha.

1:00:24SpeakerIt just seems so arbitrary, and again, you could certainly take many, many different samples and still not have an accurate statistical representation of the actual THC content of the entire top. I mean, if the notion is that the tops are out of spec, well, what if he just whacks off the tops and just uses the bottom for fiber? Here in Europe, that's exactly what they have to do.

1:00:52SpeakerIt's batch testing, and they have to take... Parts of all our samples from different parts of the plant. They're not approaching it by taking a flower sample like it was drugs and looking for the stoniest part. That's not the way it's done here. They've adopted the .3 EU standard, former EU standard. It's now .2. But they didn't seem to have adopted the sampling protocol to back it up, so...

1:01:18SpeakerMaybe that's how this should be challenged by whoever's got this crop. Dr. Yeah, well, and then again, what's the measurement system that they're using? They're using the HPLC method as described in the AHP monograph for cannabis? Is that, Dr. The analysis protocol is also in the EU regulations if they want to look it up. It's in there. I don't know what they, it's TC, I'm pretty sure, but it's in there.

1:01:40SpeakerThe whole thing. Dr. What variety of hemp did they grow? That was point blank. I don't know exactly. I could actually look into it. I was actually texting with Ryan earlier today. I could actually send him a text and ask. Yeah, because some varieties traditionally have problems and other varieties never have problems. Exactly. Was it grown seeded or was it grown since Samia? I don't know. I don't really want to comment because, first of all, it's not my problem.

1:02:15SpeakerI could make inquiries into it. If it was grown in Samia, that alone could have knocked it up. Right. I was thinking, too, that also the extraction method that they're using to analyze the sample can also affect the results. I mean, if you think about it, you're talking about Two-tenths of a percent difference between 0.5 and 0.3 percent. I mean, you could mishandle a sample and knock it out of spec.

1:02:50SpeakerDid they run that five times? Were the five replicates all within the statistical margin of error? I mean, all of this data has to be, you can't just say that that crop has got 0.5 percent burn to crop. That's bullshit. Because again, even if you just look at moisture and how that sample is handled in terms of how it's analyzed, is it the dried crop at 0.3% and is it THC-A or is it THC?

1:03:18SpeakerI mean, these are all going to make a difference. A difference. So I'm going to look into this. Well, if they're smart, he'll have the analysis done by GC, because they're always a little bit lower than an HPLC. Yeah, the problem with GC is that GC, you're sending it through a thermal injection port at 200 degrees, and that changes everything, man. It doesn't raise the THC. It lowers the THC.

1:03:47SpeakerThat's his problem. Yes, yes, that's correct. That's correct.

1:03:55BubblemanWe just never fucked around. We stuck with the Zola Tenocha. That shit was like .01% and every time the lab tested it, they were just like, I guess it's industrial hemp. Our whole country, basically our whole hemp law.

1:04:11MauricioMy thing is this though, is if we're not, well ironically now we are actually harvesting cannabinoids from hemp because of the CBD. Praise, call it what you will. But I always found it a little odd that we were having a cannabinoid conversation when we were really harvesting seeds and fibers and cellulose. And I think now maybe with legalization in Colorado, Oregon, now can we grow hemp varieties that are not cannabinoid limited, but maybe the best expressions that could grow in that area.

1:04:47MauricioThat's really my question.

1:04:53MauricioAnd as we lose Rob, of course.

1:04:57SpeakerWell, absolutely. I just wanted to mention something I think that Chris put as a message here, which is that I've heard from hemp farmers in Colorado that time of day, when those are harvested, you know, absolutely looking at the profile of the plant during the end of flowering is absolutely essential to meet that .3 cutoff on high CBD strains. Absolutely essential.

1:05:25BubblemanHey, there's Mickey Mouse making his first appearance on Hash Church.

1:05:29SpeakerIsn't that fuck Mickey?

1:05:31BubblemanMickey Mouse is an old head. Yeah, that's fuck Mickey. Hey, welcome Tony, and I guess welcome Brendan Dabbs who came and laughed faster than we could say hello, and of course, welcome to Chris Bennett who came in while Rob was chatting away.

1:05:47Sarah SundayRob, how you doing, dude?

1:05:50BubblemanNice.

1:05:51SpeakerVery good. Hey, so Rob, when do you think the first evidence of cannabis growing for psychoactive purposes is, based on, you know, current archaeological data and stuff like that? Well, I don't know. I guess it's still, I don't know. It's sort of back to that same Twenty-five hundred, twenty-two hundred year ago sort of window, the stuff all moving around in Central Asia, maybe a bit earlier, the Eastern Europe, oh boy, it's just all that stuff comes up about that same time.

1:06:27SpeakerWhat about in China? It seems like from a lot of stuff I've read, the Chinese distinguish between their initial hemp crop that they were growing for fiber and seed and whatnot, and then that of the later like Scythian hemp, they would call it, or You know, Firehemp or, you know, what the Gooshies were using likely. Do you think that that came in and there were two different strains there?

1:06:48SpeakerA drug content plant that came in maybe via Indo-Europeans and then there was already an indigenous Chinese industrial thing because most of the, even the Chinese psychoactive purposes, you know, from what we can see in the literature, Seems to start around that same time, unless we put that date of 2700 B.C. on Chen Nung, which is pretty debatable. Yeah, that's allegorical sort of stuff, but yeah, it's around that same time.

1:07:18SpeakerAnd later in history, Chinese historians refer to Western cannabis, Qimeng. So it was probably introduced at some point, this is later on in time that they're talking about this, but... Yeah, there was a Western influence, which in their case would have meant that it was introduced at a later time when they already knew about Dama, the other hemp. So what about anything about this recent Scythian thing with the gold bowls and cups that were mistakenly reported as bongs in the press but were actually preparations for drinking cannabis?

1:07:59SpeakerYes. Well, there were nice bowls and If we're to follow where they came from and your dating and things, the assumption would be that they were from some libation, possibly cannabis, yes.

1:08:12Sarah SundayYeah.

1:08:13SpeakerI wish they were decorated somehow that was more indicative of that, but that's what I say about most things that hint at what we're after, but yeah. Yeah, well, it's always hard to go by some sort of symbolic drawing or something like that. You want something a little more solid for sure.

1:08:28BubblemanYeah, yeah, very true.

1:08:32BubblemanWelcome, Tony and Brendan Dab, Dablicious, who just came into the room. We're just chatting it up. Old school. Chris and Rob talking history.

1:08:44SpeakerSoon we're going to be talking terms. I guess I meant whether the Scythian was coming from someplace else. The Scythian genetics. Yeah, we'd have to get the genetics down, but yes. I was listening to you guys talk about pesticides while I was taking a shower.

1:09:06SpeakerAnd basically, I just wanted to kind of say a few things about that. I agree with what you guys were saying earlier. I mean, not to go backwards, but it was a good conversation because concentrates, if you think about it, and if you had to purchase buds for $4,000... Then your starting gram, if you're looking at an extraction like what Davalicious does over there, Brendan, and you say, okay, I'm getting a 15% extract, I'm averaging 65 grams, let's say the 65 grams would have an average starting cost for every $500 is $7.12.

1:09:48SpeakerSo at $2,000, you're already into the $22 a gram. Just starting costs, not even processing or anything like that or the labor to bring it down, Or to prep it, or to make it. At $4,000, now you're in the $40, $50 range before you even get started. So the concept of making like a BHO or a hash or something like that was such a rare thing. So when you've got guys like Bubble Man and Sam making dry sift 15, 20 years, 30 years ago, or even more maybe from Sam, I'm not really sure the time frame, but If you go backwards in time, think about how rare that actually was.

1:10:34SpeakerAnd then nobody really moved along with that until the prices could get a little bit more affordable or California growing bigger, outdoor, sun resin, you're able to get smalls and all kinds of bigger plants, so your cost of goods starts to drop down. And then you start to see people going, okay, I'm going to make more bubble. I'm going to make more hash. And then because it was in that market, I feel like it took the hash makers and the connoisseurs and the people that were actually playing with the resin to really start to focus in on noticing pesticides and sprays and things like that.

1:11:09SpeakerBecause the average folks going around, they roll up their joint, they smoke it. We've been to Jamaica many times. I can't imagine how many times we've seen PM or bugs or they just spray it. And if you look at how cannabis is growing wild without any kind of, Understanding or knowledge or education about that. You're getting all kinds of shit in your flowers. You're smoking it. You're not even realizing it for years and years and years.

1:11:32SpeakerAll of a sudden, resin farmers come along. They start harvesting the resin. They start looking at the results, and they start noticing and seeing these things. So I think some credit needs to be given to those pioneers, some of you on the panel that were resin farmers and really Thank you for joining us.

1:12:08SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:12:34SpeakerWith, say, 10, 30 lights, you know, you're keeping it in a controlled environment. It's a personal thing that you're taking care of with a couple people or your wife in your house or a significant other. And that's a controlled environment. Once these grows are starting to go from the basement grower to the commercial grower and they're getting big and they're trying to build these large, huge indoor cultivation facilities, those plants They're in perpetual harvest, so they're either growing in threes or ten gallons or on tables.

1:13:11SpeakerBut most of them are doing threes and tens because of the restriction of plant count, unless now you've got recreational, and those numbers are tied to production caps. So most people are doing three gallons to ten gallons because of the plant size. And when you do that, and you're doing big production, you've got multiple rooms, Rob knows You get one breakout in bugs or mold and your air filtration, your UV system, if you don't have super controlled environments among each room and you're taking every precaution, and that really is the big thing for pests, precautionary standards.

1:13:51SpeakerSo if you're going from house to grow with the same clothes, going from outside to grow from the same clothes, even from one flower room to the next flower room without scrubs, And a clean room in between it, you have the potential of contaminating and carrying other things with you. And so we are the problem. We're the problem which is causing those pests and the way we're designing those rooms in our industry in that kind of not as sophisticated as you would see let's say in Canada or these other monster grows that have 20 million dollars, you're seeing Colorado go from the basement to the commercial And they're having to use their own money.

1:14:33SpeakerThey can't take outside money. So in that step, there's not a perfected environment in every grow. From what I've seen in hundreds of grows, you just don't have that. And so they're basically perpetually spreading their pests and their mold. So if you get an outbreak and you're cloning and cloning and cloning and not growing from seed and then you don't have a perfect environment with perfectly healthy plants, Now you're just infected on say 10 of 10,000 plants and those little 10 plants spread out.

1:15:07SpeakerThey go into their different rooms and it becomes like an outbreak. So the stuff that people are doing is they're trying to grow for yield. They're not trying to grow for resin or flavor mostly. They're trying to get pounds per light. And so when that rat race opens up and you're growing that way in a business format, Not in the, I'm an individual growing the best herb and the best resin I possibly can under your own control and environment with yourself at home.

1:15:41SpeakerIt opens up quite a few different exposures in that grow. So lots of people are, lots of people in that industry are cheating. The quality of the cannabis is dropping and it's once it took the medical emphasis away, that's kind of Kind of when I was bailing out, I saw what was going on there and it wasn't the spirit or intent of the resin in which I wanted to work with to make medicine.

1:16:13SpeakerAnd so I think when you come out to California and you look at Clean Green or you look at Light Depot or Sun Resin, the fact that you've got a powerful sun, you've got UV light, if you keep your plants really healthy, And those plants are exposed to the sun at least periods of the day. Then that UV is going to strengthen the protection. There's immunity that's happening, immunity boost that's happening when it's hitting the sun.

1:16:41SpeakerThose UV lights are helping with PM. They're helping keep the plant healthy that's naturally fighting off bugs. And I think that when you look at the world of cannabis, where it's going to go, it's not going to be indoor. It's going to be Greenhouses, controlled greenhouses, and this plant likes the sun. It's like ridiculous that we would be spending $20, $30 million on 4,000, 1,000 watt lights to try to grow this plant indoor.

1:17:13SpeakerAnd I think that's the problem. I think when you're taking something that's natural like the wolf and you're putting it into a home environment, like I always tell Bubble Man, we're going from the wolf, The wolf pack to the little Pomeranian that I have. You know, do you think my dog would survive in the jungle? How long? We could take a stopwatch, put her in the jungle, and literally see how long she lasts.

1:17:39SpeakerYou know, so now you don't have a wolf as a pet. You don't have a bear as a pet in your house. They would tear everything apart. They'd take one move and your cabinets are on the ground. So that's what I see happening is that this plant is taken out of its natural state and its natural environment of how it wants to grow because it's had so much prohibition on it that it's this dirty little plant that has to be stuck into a basement and hidden away from society.

1:18:07SpeakerIt needs to be grown outside as big as fucking humanly possible. You know, one of the things I thought, oh, sorry, yeah. One of the things I thought was interesting when I interviewed Lawrence Cherniak about his times traveling around filming hash making in the 60s and 70s was that they weren't growing big buds. There wasn't any desire. They weren't even trying to grow big buds. He said it was a lot of spindly plants and it was just full of resin.

1:18:39SpeakerAnd so there weren't the same sort of looking plants at that time that most of that hash was coming from. That we're growing, say, and grow rooms with, you know, lights and whatnot.

1:18:49BubblemanTotally. Well, thanks for sharing that perspective, Tony. I did agree with that in a big way. It's growing it outside. It just feels right.

1:19:07Sarah SundayYou know, the first...

1:19:16MauricioSo can I ask Brendan, Brendan, have you had any more High Times Cups taken away from you lately?

1:19:21SpeakerHey, that's not nice.

1:19:27MauricioJust asking. I love your stuff. We're friends. And, you know, when we're not on, you know, I'm choking hardcore. How have you been?

1:19:40SpeakerUnmute yourself, Brendan. Unmute him.

1:19:49BubblemanAre we unmuting, Brandon?

1:19:53BubblemanHere, I'll try. There you go, buddy.

1:19:55Sarah SundayHow are you doing, Brandon?

1:19:58SpeakerGood, Hippie. How are you doing?

1:19:59Sarah SundayFine.

1:20:23BubblemanVery well, very well. Just, you know, throwing it down for HashChurch 54.

1:20:55SpeakerOr, you know, plants that are near fire damage will end up with having any kind of problems in their extraction process due to any of the extra things that are in the air, the stuff that they're using to fight fires with, any of those things. And so I figured I would, a lot of people have been asking me, you know, a lot of the growers up in California have been asking me about Thank you so much for joining us.

1:21:45SpeakerBut if you're in an outdoor crop situation where the only intake is constantly funneling those molecules through your grow, you're actually using that resin on your plant as a filter for that. So if it is extreme, like your neighbor's property is burning and it's like real black smoke in your life, then it will definitely affect the extract. But I could also see where that could be very well washed out in water.

1:22:11SpeakerThank you so much for joining us today.

1:22:41SpeakerSome of them, obviously, if there's like heavy black smoke, I'd be really concerned. But in general, the air quality from the fires themselves, in a period of flowering, say, three weeks in or four weeks in when those fires were happening or, you know, when it's during its mid-stage during flowering, that was kind of the concern. Just from other people, actually, they were smoking flowers, extracting flowers. It's just been a talk in California that I've noticed.

1:23:11SpeakerAmong a lot of people. So it's just a kind of ask the question, see what everybody thinks. Yeah, it's actually a very well-known phenomena that there's a butenolide, a natural compound that's in wood smoke that actually stimulates seed growth. So if you think about it, if a forest were to burn, there's basically a degradation compound in the smoke That actually stimulates seed growth to, again, repopulate the forest with more growth.

1:23:47SpeakerSo it's a butenolide compound. And I'm wondering, again, if smoke or anything like that can be used sort of in a supplementary sense because, again, they're known to enhance seed germination.

1:24:05BubblemanOK. Yeah, there's some plants here in British Columbia that grow every time after fires in the mountains. It's a particular type of... It's a beautiful plant, and it's like the seed's always there, and the fire basically gets it going. You know, I just was going to introduce Cheryl T Rose. That sucks that she just left. Hopefully she can come right back. She had some exciting news to share with us today, and she had...

1:24:31BubblemanA new idea that she wanted to share with Canadian MMAR patients. Hopefully she makes it back. She's at the fireweed, exactly. Super high in potash, fireweed, beautiful looking stuff too, really like bright flower on it.

1:24:48SpeakerYeah, the health of the plants in most of the pictures and the things that people have been sending me The plants really love the extra carbon dioxide and they love the, you know, whatever is contained in the ash. It's really helping the flowers. What they were more concerned about was the transferability of like the things that people are spraying to put out the fires. Yeah. And then also the intense heat with the ash dropping onto the plants.

1:25:20SpeakerAnd actually like when I was looking at some of the plants, I was actually looking at some of the... The resin crystals, and they look like the tops had been completely burned from where the ash had dropped. And then also some of the other places that we had looked at, some of the other things that people had talked about was migrating pests from other neighboring gardens or from just in nature.

1:25:45SpeakerSo that was why I was just wondering if this is just, I figured I'd throw it out in the group and see what other people's experiences were With that in terms of how it transfers both in the inhalation process when they're going to be smoking it, but also making it into edibles or through extracts.

1:26:09BubblemanFor sure, I guess it's going to be something that will have to be tested specifically. I was asked the question as well about the ash and for me it really depended on what ash that was from, what particular thing burned. Was it like a chemical toxic plastic that got burned? I guess I'm stupid in here. Can anyone hear me or am I stupid?

1:26:32SpeakerYou're skipping just a little bit, but I definitely understand what you're saying. I'm actually heading over to one of my labs right now to be able to, I'm going to process a bunch of stuff, so I will actually chime back in in about an hour or two and let you guys know how the first couple of runs go.

1:26:50BubblemanAwesome, dude. Sounds good. And I wanted to welcome Haley, or sorry, Haley, Cheryl T Rose, Haley Rose's mother, and I believe founder of the Haley Rose Foundation. I don't know if she can hear us or see us. She was just in here a few minutes ago. And are you there, Cheryl?

1:27:14BubblemanNo? Technical difficulties, technical difficulties?

1:27:21BubblemanI'm not sure if she's going to be able to stop working. She's going to tell a bit about Haley Rowe and what she's been through lately.

1:27:33BubblemanIt's not coming through. Does anyone hear this or is it just me?

1:27:39SpeakerNo, I'm just getting a choppy...

1:27:41MauricioI would disconnect it.

1:27:43SpeakerShe's having a hard time.

1:27:47BubblemanYeah, you'll have to disconnect and come back, Cheryl.

1:27:51SpeakerIf you're using a plug-in mic, unplug it and plug it back in. If it's direct, you have to restart the computer itself.

1:28:01BubblemanShe is a flea market today. I guess the only thing I can really do is go hide from broadcast for now.

1:28:14Sarah SundayHopefully she'll make it back.

1:28:21BubblemanTechnical difficulties on HashChurch. I think it's time for a bong rep, everybody. That is your cue. We're having a little bit of problems. Pull out your bowls and pack them full. Pack them full. Pack them full. And we'll be back. We'll be right back.

1:28:41BubblemanOkay, what's Tony saying? I'm going to jump in the car. He's going to jump in the car.

1:28:48BubblemanAlright, I'm not sure. She's at the flea market. It would be great to hear what she has to say. She had some pretty exciting news and I was most excited about her idea that she wanted to present to the Canadian MMR growers or at least the ones here in British Columbia. Maybe she'll get that going. If not, we'll continue to talk about all things hashish here on Hash Church as we do every Sunday.

1:29:12BubblemanFor three to four hours, you guys are all tuned in. I'm about to load up some more West Coast concentrates. Hitting some bubble. What was I hitting the last few bubble rips was the Green Crack God.

1:29:27SpeakerYes. I have a question for Rob and Sam. Rob and Sam, if you were left with one genetic, only one genetic, what genetic would you choose?

1:29:43BubblemanHey, Donald was going to answer.

1:29:51BubblemanSorry to catch you eating, Rob. Oh, Rob's muted too. Let me unmute Rob so we can hear him chewing.

1:29:59SpeakerSee that? Incredible. I actually did that by myself.

1:30:06SpeakerSomebody loaned me a cell phone last week. That was really a scream. Now, where are you going to grow this, ATN? It's you. It's you. It's you, Rob, and you, Sam. If you had your choice, wherever you are in the world, and you grew one strain, and you were left with one strain, what strain would you choose? If I could grow it outdoors, haze. Yeah, haze. If you could grow it, you have one strain, indoor, outdoor, outdoor.

1:30:31SpeakerHaze, grow it outdoors.

1:30:34BubblemanYep. Respect.

1:30:37SpeakerThat'd be it.

1:30:39BubblemanSame with me. You know, I gotta say that I'm damn near in the same boat with you guys. Haze outdoors, long flowering.

1:30:50SpeakerHowever, I really think that a universe where I can only grow one variety would be an absolutely horrible place. Let's hope that never happens. I'm so tired of it after 83 years. I'm so tired of hazing.

1:31:14SpeakerCould you imagine how perfect that the resin and all of the products made from the resin would be? If everyone was working on one strain, one resin, and there was a Legends of Hash and everyone was like, well, I've got the outdoor haze. Oh, yeah, you too, I've got some outdoor haze. Yeah, we've all got the same strain. Well, let me see your resin. And then it would really be competitive to get that resin nailed down.

1:31:40SpeakerBut at the end of the day, it would all just still be the same cereal, the same resin. I'd immediately start working on it until I could get resin at least the size of grapes. Yeah. Why haven't you been working on that? I have.

1:31:58BubblemanIt just hasn't gotten very far yet. It's exponential. They'll grow the most right in the last few stages.

1:32:09SpeakerWhat I'd like to see is somebody really working on, me would be a good choice with a close friend here, but working on really making hashish varieties, things that aren't necessarily anything like the butt-in-a-bag sort of model that people have been breeding to for the last 20 years or more. So, yeah, just different, try to breed some different things. Narrowly. I think outside the box a bit.

1:32:37SpeakerWould you guys consider hash strains to be strains that either produce a certain resin head size consistently, like good for hash, like this makes a ton of 70U, or would a hash strain be about robust, complex terpenes and the experience, rather than gearing it towards yields for hash? Well, are you talking about today or in the future, or are you talking about traditionally? Because traditionally, hash strains were strains that were made into hashish.

1:33:07SpeakerWell, I just, I see people say like, this is the hash plant, and I'm like, I'm not going to get a shit ton of dry sift off of this, but it might be the best hash I've ever had in my life based on the way it looks, the way it smells. That's kind of why I'm like, well, look, there's two sides of hash. One is like, we could just go around smelling the jars of dry sift, and that would be an experience of itself with never smoking it.

1:33:29SpeakerThat's kind of why I'm like, look, I have a lot of strains that I love, and I think this might make great hash. But in the end, it might just produce a shit ton of 45U, and that's not good for hash. You know, for instance, that is the beloved Hayes. It has great resin, little tiny glands, but lots of it. Kicks your ass, has a great terpene profile, whatever it takes, but it is miserable as far as getting any kind of a resin yield from it.

1:33:57SpeakerIt's really disappointing. Dry sifting into anything you do that it just doesn't work. Maybe you can rub resin from it and get it to work. Or hybrids. But, yeah, there's a lot of breeding to do. You really just, of course, want varieties that have The right terpene profile and make you, just give you whatever effect you want and also produce lots of resin that's easy to get off the plant no matter how you're going to do it.

1:34:23SpeakerIt's, economics in the end is going to be about yield. You know, all the rest of it's going to be icing on the cake and a little extra vig, but basically it's going to be how much you can get of clean resin per agricultural unit. Well, that's kind of what I'm afraid of because I think of my best yielder and I'm like, I don't want to fucking smoke grape crush hybrid just because I can get 20 grams of 70U sift out of it.

1:34:51SpeakerI want to smoke blueberry where I get a gram and a half and I just look at it and worship it. So that's kind of why I wanted your definition of what the future of hash should be. To be honest, I don't think you have to worry because I bet you anything we could put pretty much any terpene profile in any established resin variety. So I don't think there's a big problem.

1:35:17SpeakerI agree.

1:35:24BubblemanThat leaves me... Quick question in regards to that, Sam, in regards to when did you guys come across terpenes as a modulator to the cannabinoid profile?

1:35:40SpeakerWell, about 2000, Rob and I, well, I obtained some pure THC, 100% pure. And what we did was we vaporized 25 milligrams. THCA. Yeah, it was THCA. Thank you. We vaporized 25 milligrams each in a volcano on one of those little, they're like a little stainless steel Brillo pad, those little pads that they have. Okay, so... We were blown away because, I mean, if you smoke 25 milligrams of hash or 25 milligrams of... you get stoned and it's pretty good.

1:36:32SpeakerBut with this, the most describable thing about it was that it had no individuality whatsoever like cannabis products do. It was really flat, one-dimensional, kind of boring. Rob, I think at the time, actually said, if this is all there is to cannabis, I wouldn't be a smoker. Yeah, if this is what you got turned on to in high school or whatever, instead of the real thing, I don't think any of us would have really been interested.

1:37:06SpeakerIt's sort of like being a fan of Everclear. You know, the... 180 something proof liquor you can get in Nevada. It's not even legal in the state of California. But it's ethanol, essentially. And nobody drinks it straight. I mean, nobody just dilutes it with water and drinks it because they like it. It's a novelty. And THC is the same thing. It had no color at all. So later that day, what we did was we...

1:37:41SpeakerMixed it with a little bit of 50% dry sift skunk resin. And what that allowed was to create a material that was 75% THC, so less than 100%, but it was also terpene rich from the resin, from the dry sift. When we smoked that, the effects were twice as strong as the pure THC. And a light went on in our heads because from the early 70s, both Robert and I, even before we met, had felt that terpenes might well contribute to the synergistic effects found in cannabis.

1:38:26SpeakerI think one of the primary reasons was because haze, when it was tested for its THC level, It was to be, you know, in the high end of cannabis, but when you smoked it, it was in the outer space of cannabis. I mean, it was really, really active. And I think that was because of the terpenes. I think that's how you felt. Well, the other amazing thing in the early 70s was that people started growing cannabis.

1:38:59SpeakerYou know, they started growing Sinsemia. And that's when you really noticed what... The difference was between fresh homegrown and what imported weed of whatever kind you ever got before, what that was. That was a profound difference, just to see something fresh. The essence of most of the weed that you smoked back in the Thank you for joining us.

1:39:44SpeakerI think most of what Robert and I got, even though it was imported, it was not moldy. Or if it was, it was very, very, very, very slightly.

1:39:54SpeakerA general statement that most of commercial weed at the time, essentially, which came from Mexico, was probably fouled with mold and all kinds of different microbes. If you look very hard, you would have found things for sure. And some of it, of course, is unsmokable, as you know. It was just plain right. I was a young kid on dead tour in the mid-70s. By 1980, I was hooked up.

1:40:20SpeakerYeah, yeah. Well, meanwhile, back to terpene. So we smoked the pure THC with rice. This ain't it. We smoked THC mixed with resin 50-50, which made 75% THC by dry weight. And wow, that was very interesting. So then what we did a year or two later, we obtained all the cannabinoids. So the top 10 cannabinoids, THC, CBD, CBG, THCV, et cetera, et cetera. And we also obtained the top 10 terpenes.

1:40:57SpeakerAnd then we were able to try the different cannabinoids, and we found out that a couple of interesting things, like number one, if you smoke pure CBD in a fairly large amount, a tenth of a gram, 100 milligrams, then what happens is it blocks the activity of even the strongest dry-sift ash for about 8 to 12 hours. So that was interesting. The other interesting thing was that THC-B is not psychoactive at all.

1:41:30SpeakerBecause a lot of people at that time believed it was. Then we tried all the different terpenes with THC. So we tried 25 milligrams of THC, all double-blinded, with one terpene, you know, as tiny amount as we could put it with it. And what we found out was that myrcene, bimolein, Pining and a few other definitely potentiated THC and Most of the others, or a lot of the others, also modulated THC to different levels.

1:42:05SpeakerSo some made you couch lock, some made you speedy, and it was like a revelation. I mean, we had suspected it, but we never, never really dreamed it would be that clear. Because we did it with 12 different double-blinded test subjects with a 100-question survey before and after, and we all agreed on the same things. Different people preferred the couch lock or the uplifting, but they all agreed that that particular compound with THC had that effect.

1:42:45SpeakerSo this was all maybe 12 years ago or 13 years ago, although we started it practically 15 years ago.

1:42:56SpeakerAt first, I was afraid to release the information because I thought people would start coming out with, Skunky Sam's Improve Your Weed Spray, Turn Mold to Gold. And they have to a certain degree, but the better side of it is when people are extracting terpenes from the natural cannabis sources and then adding them back to the same. That's pretty benign as long as no chemicals and solvents are being left.

1:43:28SpeakerI don't know what to say, but the truth of it is it's changed cannabis and our understanding will continue to learn, but it's a really big step forward. What I'd really like to see done is something much more sophisticated than we were able to do, you know, and see science put to bear on this situation and see what we can learn about different terpene combinations with different cannabinoids.

1:43:57SpeakerThere's 140 of them. Seems the most interesting avenue for me at the moment. That's just 140 known, right? That's just what we know so far. Yeah, some of them are really in trace amounts, and that doesn't mean they're not important, but yeah, about 20 of them make up most of the terpenes in cannabis we smoke today. But there's a smattering of other compounds, and they could be key also.

1:44:26SpeakerYeah, there could be a couple hundred terpenes. We just haven't ID'd them yet. But the smaller the amounts, the less significant they are likely to be. Just by odds.

1:44:40SpeakerThere's probably also heavy selective pressures involved recently in the way of people breeding. There's aromas people like and there's effects they expect based on that aroma. It's this It's a feedback loop thing that makes it all kind of hard to study in a more detailed way. It's important, and those things are somehow related, but they're not as related in the way I would have thought, in a biochemical sort of way.

1:45:18SpeakerThey're more related in what we individually make of each variety and our relationship with it. I know I'm sounding a bit cosmic for a scientist guy, but It's impossible to separate one from the other. I'm not even sure exactly how you would do a statistically rigorous test of the terpene and cannabinoid data. It'd be interesting for somebody to set it up. There's a lot more powerful tools now that we have had.

1:45:48SpeakerThey are biochemically related. There's no question about it. Of course, but that's not the only relationship is what I'm saying. Right. I mean, I've always wondered if they're competing pathways. I mean, they use the same precursors, so what exactly is going on? Hard to say. But we've certainly jacked up both pathways in the modern C&C varieties, and these hybrids are big producers of all of the above.

1:46:12SpeakerYeah, it's not like there's a shortage of one thing or another. The terpenes seem to have become sort of a mishmash and... It's more now what plants don't have rather than what they have, in my mind. That's sort of what makes a variety that's characteristic in the way it smells to me is a key terpene it has, or a couple of them, but also all the terpenes that it's lacking so that it doesn't smell like everything else.

1:46:42SpeakerIt's pretty inbred at this point. The space is between the nodes.

1:46:48MauricioHow many distinctly different cannabis varieties do you guys think? If we were to liken cannabis strains to colors in a crayon box, how many crayons would be in that box, Rob or Sam?

1:47:03SpeakerWell, there's just a couple basic cannabinoids, and all the rest of the colors are terpenes, or the vast majority of them. So, you know, figure it out like that. There's 140 known terpenes, but some of them are almost just like adding a shimmer rather than a real note.

1:47:27MauricioOkay, then I put it like this, Rob. You wrote in the introduction of the Canada Bible, there was less than a dozen plants that really ultimately shaped the whole breeding profile that the 90s and into the 21st century saw. So I guess what I'm really asking is, how many different, if you will, Original strains are we really passing around? I mean, it seems like there isn't that many.

1:47:57MauricioYou know, when you sit there and we talk about Hayes or Kush or Trainwreck or a Skunk or a Callio, the list gets kind of short is my point. And I was wondering, obviously, if you guys had actually collected what we know as modern cannabis and how wide of a selection it really is before it gets into just a lot of hybridizations.

1:48:22SpeakerWell, it's already gotten into a lot of hybridization. It's already too late from that point of view. There are several things that are going on that are going to allow us to learn more about these things. And one of those is the Phylos Bioscience Project that Sam and I are involved with and probably mentioned before. But with this project, we're able to, at this point, they've looked at

1:48:55SpeakerSix or seven hundred, I don't know, maybe more by now, basically dispensary samples from six states, thousand of them maybe, and they put together a model from this, okay, and I can't let you see it yet, but it comes down to nodes that seem to be There are key parts of varieties. It's hard to explain this. It's not a tree. It's more of a… They're closely related.

1:49:28SpeakerYeah. Some varieties are obviously more closely related to each other than they are to other ones, okay? However, everything is interrelated. There's no little satellite that's not related to anything else. It's a giant web. That says a lot. It says a lot about where we're at with varieties these days and how much reshuffling of the deck is how we've always referred to it as being going on.

1:49:56SpeakerTo refer back to what Bob's talking about from Jason King's First Can of Bible, the introduction I wrote is called What's in a Name? And it came out in 2000, I believe. So this is data that came basically from Sam's seed collection, seed catalog collection, From getting everyone there was pretty much and we also knew at that point all the major seed company people, major like six companies.

1:50:25SpeakerSo it was easy enough to ask people if you didn't say in their catalog what land races primarily they'd use to make certain varieties and then later on which of those varieties they'd use to make other ones. After that point in time, Everything, the business became much, much larger. And basically people changed the names to, for whatever business reasons they had. But nobody got any mileage anymore of telling people what was really in them.

1:50:56SpeakerOkay, so that's why I published, realizing this is happening, is why I published that around that time. This was 15 years ago. Since that time, certainly new things have been brought in that people had That were not released to anybody back in the year 2000. This is something that's come up much more recently also. So there are new land races occasionally that people have added in, certainly in the last 15 years.

1:51:22SpeakerYeah, and all this, basically people operate on clones, so people still pop new beans and get new materials and seed industry goes on. But all that stuff basically is highly interrelated. Now when we get to analyzing landraces in the Phylos project, then we'll have this cloud, which would be like the canopy of a tree, if you want to go back to a more standard model of lineages, and it's a family tree.

1:51:53SpeakerSo the landraces are the predecessors of everything we have today. They didn't come from outer space, they came from farmers somewhere, and not that long ago. And we've been able to collect All dead seeds and leaves from people who still have land races and things like this. And we're going to be able to get a lot of the branches of the tree, the smaller branches near this canopy of modern day varieties.

1:52:22SpeakerWhere it goes from here evolutionarily is a really good question. This is not a good position to be in necessarily for a crop plant. When it happened to corn, there were blights that nearly wiped out maize. I mean, you know... So there you have it. That's what you can learn. We can learn more from the Filehouse Project if anybody wants to contribute to it. I'm not that hard to get a hold of.

1:52:45SpeakerSo yeah, participate. It's fun. Science is fun. Don't be afraid of it. It's fun.

1:52:56BubblemanAgreed. Thanks for sharing that, Rob. I'm getting a bit cut up, so every time I go to talk, I feel like I'm interrupting someone. I keep trying to welcome Cheryl Rose into the room, but she's having a heck of a time. Her mic's not working. Maybe next time she comes in, we can give her the floor and see if it's going to work. She has some exciting news to share with us about her daughter, Haley.

1:53:19BubblemanThat is Cheryl T Rose. And welcome, Nick. I saw you were holding up one of Ed Borg's big giant screens there.

1:53:28BubblemanWelcome, welcome.

1:53:33Cheryl RoseAll right. Yeah, this is the new Canaflex screens. It's real good for anybody that wants to do any dry sifting on the go if you're going to events or something like that. I know it's not super great environments, but pretty cool little thing. It comes in a little carrying case.

1:53:54Sarah SundayYeah.

1:53:54Cheryl RoseIt just kind of pops out.

1:53:59Cheryl RoseHas a 150 micron screen on there. Just a single screen, nothing fancy, but it definitely works if you're going to be going to events and you want to use flowers and then press the sift. It's definitely quite a unique little tool. Nice.

1:54:17BubblemanWell, thanks for sharing it with us. We always appreciate Hash Tools on Hash Church. Anything that can help us You know, decontaminate, because isn't that really what it's all about? Trying to access that pure, unadulterated, glandular trichome head in whatever variety you prefer, whether that's, you know, using a variety or a single solvent or going a solventless manner. There is a variety of ways to make hash and oil.

1:54:49BubblemanAnd nowadays it seems like the amount of information, I don't know because I know how to make these things. I wonder, I ask the audience, how hard is it to really find this information when you're coming from someone that knows none of it and you're just, like how hard is it to find Hash Church? How hard is it to find like posts on YouTube or other, you know, maybe magazine articles there?

1:55:11BubblemanThere must be, it must be getting easier and easier because I sure remember there was a lot less information. There's Cheryl. Stop talking. Can you hear us, Cheryl?

1:55:23BubblemanCheryl. Cheryl T Rose. I wish that it was working. It would be, there you are. Choppy choppy though.

1:55:38BubblemanRemo I tried to invite earlier, but I couldn't find. Sometimes it won't let me find his Facebook, so I couldn't find it. I tried to invite Remo. Anyway, we've got 701 people watching, learning, listening, paying attention. They're the ones. Thank you guys for watching. And for those of you in the Pacific Northwest, you must notice that it's colder now. It is time to get your dry sift screens out.

1:56:08BubblemanDid you bring your girls in? Not yet. I cut a bunch of my girls down the other day, and the few that are still going I'm going to bring in and finish them off under LEDs. That's the way it's got to be. I wish your mic was working, Cheryl. We can see you, kind of, a picture of you.

1:56:37Cheryl RoseYeah, you know, Mark, also I wanted to bring up, I'm not sure, I came in a little late, I'm not sure if you guys already talked about it, but we lost a pretty big member of the hash community over the last week in Bernard Fumo, Senior Fumo from the Fumo Pipe Company. So I just wanted to give a moment of silence and a very fond farewell to our good friend Bernard, and yeah.

1:57:04Sarah SundayAbsolutely.

1:57:16SpeakerRaise your pipes in celebration of life.

1:57:19BubblemanYes. And did you put up his GoFundMe? Because that would be good, helpful, to let people know what his GoFundMe page is for his family. I believe he has one.

1:57:46SpeakerI guess I'll take this opportunity, I want to ask Todd and Rob a combination question because I think it goes back to something like Mark saying like all I got was bunky moldy weed when I was a teenager and I remember the kind of weed I grew up on as a teenager as Jamaican import compared to Mexican import. Now when you said like weed only grow hazes, is it because of multitude of factors like Thanks for watching.

1:58:34SpeakerBut were there ever strains that you knew you could stuff in a bag and it would never go bad? And there were certain genetics that those terps made that strain good for?

1:58:45MauricioWell, I'll answer first because I have less experience than Rob. You know, I think that handling and learning how to handle your cannabis is key to what happens to it if it gets moldy. You know, fortunately for me, I started growing cannabis when I was only 13, and I had to dry it in order to smoke it. So I inherently learned how to kind of dry it.

1:59:12MauricioI mean, anything from toaster ovens to what eventually ended up just being patient and waiting weeks for it to cool off and get right. But once it was right, it's still a vegetable product and if you put it in a baggie or you put it somewhere and you're not conscious of its humidity, you can cause it to mold up pretty easily. So handling it to me is what you're talking about, Gratia.

1:59:38MauricioThere's no strains because it depends on the variety at the time of its moisture. You know what I mean? Like all of these factors are working into the conversation, you know, but are there mold-resistant varieties, Rob?

1:59:57Sarah SundayRob is muted.

1:59:58MauricioCan we unmute Rob?

2:00:14SpeakerThere are certainly susceptible varieties. That's what we deal with today with this modern polyhybrid gene pool that we have. All the varieties we have Now contain at least a smattering or actually rather a large percentage of Afghan background. Okay, the broadleaf drug varieties. Cannabis, indica, subspecies, afghanica, whatever you want to call it. And these indicas, as people call them, and they are indeed one indica, are Predominant in a lot of the varieties we have today.

2:00:57SpeakerAnd what they brought us is an extreme susceptibility to mold. Afghanistan's a dry place. There's no reason for varieties to develop a natural resistance to mold. It just wasn't an issue. So before this time, we had varieties from Mexico and Jamaica and Colombia and Thailand and All these were descended from an Indian gene pool, okay? The narrow leaf drug varieties, the true Indica subspecies Indica. And they came from semi-tropical and tropical areas and mountain areas, but places that had a considerable amount of rain.

2:01:40SpeakerAnd for them, the natural resistance to infection by molds is a selective advantage. So we had plants that matured considerably later than the modern-day hybrids, but they weren't really susceptible to mold. They were susceptible to other things, and if you treated them badly, they could get mold. I mean, you know, but you had to treat them real badly instead of coddling them all the time, and they have mold like today's varieties.

2:02:13SpeakerThat's, again, the genetic background and historical background for what we see today. And yeah, it's in everything today pretty much unless you have a variety that's pre-Afghan. I guess the reason why I wonder, like I have a bunch of plants in veg and I created a condition in which They got infected with mold from a maple tree and I watched as I'm like this is the plants with the highest you could say stem rub terpene production seem to be the least effective.

2:02:50SpeakerAnd I know that's a genetic trait but I'm just looking at the surface area of a plant, a mold and the types of terpenes that would be on those micro trichomes that are available in veg. And when I look up those strains, I'm like, okay, high in limonene, and I know limonene is antifungal. Is that some of that attribute where I go over to the next strain, I'm like, this is getting destroyed.

2:03:11SpeakerAnd I rub the stem, and I'm like, it smells like nothing. I'm not saying it's a universal quality, but... When I found the weed that smelled the most like my dad's Jamaican compressed brick weed, it was a very peppery, spicy version of Master Kush. And it seems that that preservation and that resistance to conditions where you compress the shit out of it into a brick, stuff them in suitcases and then send it on a boat for three weeks, it seems to always come back to a peppery terpene or a more sativa.

2:03:41SpeakerBasically that same thing. I only grow sativas. I don't know much about indicas, but the tuna kush took a beating. Yeah, I would suggest that the peppery taste that's remaining is what's left after the three weeks. I thought you muted for some reason. Huh? Am I off again? Well, I just can't hear you.

2:04:00BubblemanNo, I can hear you, Rob. You're not muted. I can't hear you, Rob.

2:04:03SpeakerGo ahead. Oh, shit, it was my headphone. Sorry. I'm sure you'll agree, Mark, it's what was left over in your dad's Jamaican, no disrespect intended, but it was what wasn't cooked out of it in transit and in drying and everything else. It's what's left. It's the commonality of cannabis that we found in lots of imported things back in the day and different varieties left behind different characteristic flavors, but it's what It's what we didn't really learn about until we grew seeds from those like you're doing, you know.

2:04:40SpeakerThen you see the terpenes that didn't get boiled out in transit or handling or any other processing that ever happens. So, you know, the sesquiterpenes, some of the lower boiling point ones are what's left in… Beta-caryophyllene. Beta-caryophyllene, humaline, caryophyllene oxide. Yeah, those are the ones usually that give that peppery essence.

2:05:08SpeakerWe smoked both of those.

2:05:12SpeakerI'm sorry. I wouldn't suggest anybody smoke terpenes sprayed. It really is akin to solvent abuse.

2:05:27SpeakerYou ever use terpenes to flavor your bomb water? No, but I've used, what are those things called? Dr. Bonner's. You know kaffir limes, kaffir limes, they use the leaves in Thai cooking? Right, okay. There's fruits that grow on these things. I just happen to have a friend who has one in their yard. And they're really limonene rich. These things are just a peel, basically. There's hardly anything inside.

2:05:53SpeakerThere's nothing you do with it except chop it in small pieces and fill your bong with them, like putting ice in your bong. It's a really great thing to do with old, stale weeds. I learned this a long time ago. This is a really good one. This is that terpene enhancer thing, primarily lime, and it's all sweet, citrusy stuff in them, and they work great. Yes, sort of.

2:06:21SpeakerYeah, I recently did a couple dabs with my friend Dave Malone from Green Dot there in Boulder, Colorado, and he flavored the bond water with a little bit of lemongrass oil, and it was Like a completely different dab. Did a dab before and a dab after. Very, very different.

2:06:42BubblemanYou know, it's interesting that we're talking about this because back in 2003 I opened a gallery in Vancouver called The Melting Point. And I had a vaporization station. It was actually called the inhalation station of vaporization. And it was about 20 plus feet long. And I had a variety of all the different top quality vaporizers that were available at the time. You know, the Aromed from Germany and the Volcano and Rip Tech was there and the Volatizer was there.

2:07:12BubblemanThere was a whole variety of these things. And because it was so early and really there was only one Compassion Club that existed and it was still very young, we had no real regulations or rules. It was completely not allowed. And I kind of pushed the boundaries and I just said, well, you know what, I'll let people bring their herbs and use these vaporizers and sit at the table.

2:07:31BubblemanAnd set it up. But also what I did was we acquired other essential... Oil secreting herbs that were medicinal like lavender and just different things that were right next door to my store and we had people come in and vape these different things and eventually people started bringing in like pure essential oils and you'd take like the tiniest little like minute little drop of like mint and it was the most uplifting.

2:08:01BubblemanYou couldn't even believe like some of these things were literally giving people the effects of being Thank you for watching.

2:08:37BubblemanQuiet time. Hey, it's only 11 o'clock, boys. We've only been at this for two hours. We can't be this quiet just yet.

2:08:42MauricioI try to listen more myself. You know, I am just as into listening to what you guys got to say as listening to myself, blah, blah, any baloney. But, you know, Rob, you were one of the few researchers that got, you know, you and Dave, I mean, you and Rob, are the few people that literally got into the whole cannabis scene. And, and, and You know, it amazes me that, you know, more of us in this don't go the way of what you've done with hemp.

2:09:13MauricioAnd, you know, what kind of caused you to get so, what caused you to have such a broad look at cannabis as opposed to just being into the stuff that gets us high?

2:09:27SpeakerWell, I guess... They were legal. It's illegal, yeah, it's a legal hobby. And it's one of the travels, well, it takes you to interesting places. But it all started really, I guess, because of being involved with nature texts and going to China and seeing a hemp textile mill and having time off in China. I knew a little bit about hemp things already from Hungary, you know, things made in villages where people had collected things there, but...

2:10:03SpeakerIt was more like finding linens. It wasn't too exciting, but still part of the picture. Then I went on vacations at first to Yunnan Province in China, not where I worked at all, but where there were a lot of minority ethnic groups. I actually saw people wearing things they said were made from hemp. This was right about the time when... Some of the Hmong batik dyed, indigo batik dyed skirts and scraps from them were being used to make purses and bags and things.

2:10:41SpeakerAnd they were showing up in the hemp fairs and things, the early ones of those. So that's what piqued my interest to begin with. And I just never looked back. I started finding more and more different cultures that I had used hemp for a long, long time and in different ways, but primarily through their textiles, through their weaving. That's the thing I'm most interested in.

2:11:06MauricioObviously, your career brought you to cannabis. Anyone who's picked it up is amazed with that body of work. I'm just utterly fascinated with the history of cannabis, and no one's ever brought it together quite like you and Mark do in your latest book. You know, I write books, or I try to. I can't imagine ever writing a book as great as that. And I was just wondering how long did it take you to write?

2:11:32MauricioYou know, how did you guys, how did you come up with Cannabis Evolution and Ethnobotany, if you don't mind me asking?

2:11:41SpeakerWell, yeah, it's no problem. It would be... Almost 20 years ago now, 19 years ago, Mark and I finally met each other. Mark had written his dissertation, his master's dissertation on cannabis, and it was called Man and Marijuana. Came out in, ooh, that would have been 72, I guess. Two aspects of the relationship. Yes. Yes, indeed. And through that, I wrote a book. In 1976, I came up with my way to get out of undergraduate education and I published my honors thesis, my honors dissertation, which is called The Botany and Ecology of Cannabis.

2:12:25SpeakerMy inspiration when I went to the library was finding Mark's book. If you could do it at Santa Barbara, I could do it at Santa Cruz. We corresponded ever since and finally met at a Society for Economic Botany meeting. Economic Botany Society is... Basically a group of ethnobotanists. Economic botany is what we used to call the field before ethnobotany really. It was the botany of plants that impinged on the economics of humans.

2:12:54SpeakerIt became a lot more than that. It became the study of humans and the plants they use and those relationships. So all sorts of plants. So through that, Vehicle, if you will, that investigative tool, ethnobotany, which Mark was already experienced with. He's 10 years my senior and a professor at the University of Hawaii, teaches the subject. We decided to do the book. I'd already had experience for my graduate work.

2:13:23SpeakerI had things left from that that I wanted to publish, and we set off on this grand project to write this book. We figured it'd take a few years, and we'd publish it. Well, 17 years later, just a couple years ago, this month, we finished it.

2:13:42SpeakerAnd I guess if we'd known it was going to take so long, we never would have tackled it. It just seems too long at the time, when you look back at least. But we did it, and it just was a growing project. Probably... Half the 700 plus citations came to us after we got, well after we got started. A lot of them in the last 10 years, last half of the project.

2:14:13SpeakerAnd you just keep getting more and more information. We're trying to be comprehensive. We wanted to have a reference book published by Academic Press. And University of California Press has done this. And we appreciate that. And I think people feel it's a credible body of knowledge. I'd like it to have more exposure. Mark feels the same way. So I would entertain any ideas for getting this body of knowledge out to more people.

2:14:45MauricioIs there a syllabus written around this book, and is this the book that will be used in colleges when a cannabis course is offered? I think that most naturally, Cannabis Evolution and Ethnobotany will most definitely be the book that is the required reading. And is this already in practice? Is this something that you're working on?

2:15:07SpeakerWell, I'd like to see a curriculum built. I'd like to see it a lot more simplified than all the massive information that's in cannabis.

2:15:18SpeakerIt is a project I'm not actively working on, but I really would like to be. It would take an educator, it would take an editor, it would take someone who knows how to pare down what's there and get the essential bits into a form that appeals to people today who want to learn, which would largely be online, I would suspect. I don't really see much of a future in trying to write books except for sentimental reasons.

2:15:47MauricioWell, you know, people are still reading even though they're not reading per se books. I mean, you know, just because they're electronically delivered information, it's still fonts, it's still words, it's still thoughts, it's still the same thing, you know, not to, you know, Shakespeare is Shakespeare is Shakespeare, so to speak. And you're conveying a lot of information and people are able to bring it in. And now, more than ever, I would say, you know, please write more, don't write less, because You know, contributions like Marijuana Botany had a big impact.

2:16:17MauricioIf it wasn't for authors like you and Mel Frank, I would have never, ever cleaned out my closet and started growing cannabis if I had not found a Mel Frank grow book. And that's just my reality. And for me to stumble upon later your contribution, Marijuana Botany, I was amazed at that and These were the pebbles in the river for me to step on as I walked across and learned, and I wish you guys would write more, honestly.

2:16:46MauricioTruthfully, I do. And even publish it, shorter papers, get right to the point. Now you don't have to go through publishing houses. You don't have to wait for big books. In my opinion, people like you, like Mel Frank, you have, if you will, a literary following where we are interested in the stuff you're learning online. I get to get it first hand because fortunately you like me.

2:17:12MauricioBut the rest of the world too would benefit from the work you do and even if it's not these huge 350,000 word 17 year projects but much shorter projects about the fascinating terpenes and chemistry and other elements of cannabis that are all interconnected right now that we're learning about. Thank you for watching.

2:17:47SpeakerWe're doing it. I mean, because I'm hearing it, I'm like, yeah, you know, a good five-page article on that subject of these terpenes or why would we pick that strain or what. Every different subject we've jumped on is all a kick-ass five-page article that you could just go in deep on. You know, like Sam discovering the terpenes, then Sam being able to, you guys having access to the THCA.

2:18:11SpeakerRob was with me. Yeah, so like you guys doing that. Now let's say we're looking at me and Bubble Man and we're fucking with the same thing. What would your article be on like when you discover it, what would you like to see us do, where would you like to see us go? Like I know where I'm going in exploring the strain not being the strain by isolating the wet terpenes, the ones that disappear when they dry, and seeing if they modulate the strain in a whole different profile.

2:18:41SpeakerBut do you guys ever have things like that where you want to see, like I wanted to see, would THCA help standardize cannabis for pain, even if it wasn't exciting for everything else? I think there's lots of interesting things people can still do. Probably more than ever, really. Lots of possibilities. Marcel DeVitt at Mary Farm, I think, has a patent for using THC-A for most medical applications.

2:19:13SpeakerI believe so. Interesting to see. It wouldn't hold up in an infringement case, so you go ahead and patent it all you want. It's not worth the paper it's written on. Thank you, Mark. You just gave me the go-ahead to keep using THCA to treat pain. You can't patent anything that's obvious. For dozens of years, what I've been doing is taking all my THCA dry sift and converting it to THC so that it was not breaking anybody's patents.

2:19:52Sarah SundaySo you were decarboxylating it?

2:19:55SpeakerI'll dab to that. You can't patent something that's known and obvious.

2:20:10SpeakerNo, it's a use patent. It's a medical use patent. It's not a THCA patent. It doesn't make a difference. The use is obvious. It's known. It won't hold up in an infringement court, a case of infringement against that patent, which is why you don't see them suing anybody. I'm not a patent lawyer. They can't enforce it. I'm not a patent lawyer, but he's had it for quite a few years.

2:20:33SpeakerI've worked with law patent lawyers in the last 25 years. I'm not a patent lawyer, but I have a lot of patents. And I know what it takes to get a patent. And you can get a patent. That doesn't mean that it's going to hold up in an infringement case. Very true. That might be true.

2:20:58SpeakerOh, that's definitely true. The best thing you should do is if you come up with something that's cool, rather than patent it, just do what the folks at Coca-Cola did. Keep it a trade secret. Keep it a secret that only you know about, and then you'll be okay. That's the type of intellectual property you have in cannabis. Trade secret.

2:21:25SpeakerBranding, I guess, you call a brand. If you trademark a brand or if you have a branded trademark, that's also a form of intellectual property. But getting patents, especially just around cannabis or the constituents of cannabis, I mean, you could come up with an end-use patent or come up with something that you think is new and not obvious, but chances are it's already been demonstrated. And if it's already been demonstrated, it's not novel.

2:21:55SpeakerAnd if it's not novel, it can't be an invention.

2:22:04BubblemanWell, there it is. Patents. Good old patents.

2:22:09SpeakerYeah, sorry to rain on everyone's parade.

2:22:12BubblemanHey, I wonder if Cheryl's mic's working yet. Can you hear us, Cheryl? Are you there, Cheryl? Have you tried turning the video on and just turning the audio on? Because, man, it would be good to hear from you.

2:22:27BubblemanYou guys are down there at the flea market today, every Sunday. They've got their booth down there. I don't know where it is, and I'd give it a shout out if I did, but she definitely knows where it is. I'm well bubbled up. Puffing on some nice bubbles, some nice rosins, some nice dry sift. What's the deal with the duck? The deal with the duck? Well, that's Donald.

2:22:55BubblemanHe's quite an old duck.

2:23:00SpeakerI think he's somebody's trademark, right? He's a trade secret, actually.

2:23:10SpeakerHe's the only one that knows, that's seen the drives of tech because he never blinks. No.

2:23:17BubblemanHe knows where they keep Walt's head and he knows the code to open it when the new body is prepared for Mr. Disney. That's his secret, trade secret. I like that they put, last time it was Mickey. It's ridiculous. Yeah, they should put Mickey and Donald together, right? Exactly, because really, like, who is that now? Like, which one of them is Donald supposed to be, and who is Mickey?

2:23:47BubblemanInquiring minds want to know. You saw it here on Hash Church. Fuck Mickey.

2:23:56BubblemanMan, there's a chat room going. There's 666 viewers watching Hash Church right now, live.

2:24:02MauricioEvery time we say fuck Mickey, Mickey Martin's laughing somewhere. I can tell. I can hear him. Yeah.

2:24:11BubblemanMickey Mean Martin?

2:24:14MauricioHe's really not that mean, but yeah, he's pretty mean.

2:24:17BubblemanNo, I never said mean. I never said mean.

2:24:20MauricioI said meme. Meme. Oh, Mickey Mean Martin is even funnier. That's fucking great.

2:24:27SpeakerYeah, hey, Todd, is there a backstory that you could fill everybody else in on?

2:24:32MauricioI've known Mickey for a long time. I mean, I like Mickey. I like Mickey a lot. Mickey's a little bit brash, a little bit uncensored, says what's completely on his mind in an unfiltered way, but I kind of like that. To be honest, I like that a bit. I like how he's brash and to the point. He speaks up, he speaks his mind, and Yeah, I got, you know, I've known him for a long time, though, so that's just that.

2:25:02SpeakerSo start with who he is. Who is he?

2:25:06MauricioWell, Mickey, back in the day, was making chocolate. I mean, and he was one of the first people to do an edibles here in the Bay, and they prosecuted him.

2:25:15SpeakerA medicated medicinal.

2:25:17MauricioYeah, tainted, tainted candies. And the stuff was really, really, really good. I mean, you know, and... You know, Mickey got busted, and fortunately, unlike me, he didn't really go to prison. He just got put in a halfway house and had his life inconvenienced and, you know, put in a house arrest, which sounds blissful to someone who did years in a fucking actual prison. So my attitude with him was, you know, shut the fuck up.

2:25:44MauricioYou got it a lot easier than I did, so don't whine. And he resonated with that, and And, you know, he really did turn his activism career around, so to speak, or turned his, he politicized his situation in a positive way, and he started, you know, he started to become a little warrior for truth. And I think that that is what I really love about Mickey, more than anything, is that, you know, you might not like what he says, but there's more than a thread of truth in what he's saying.

2:26:16MauricioI mean, and there's a ton of passion, so anybody that reads You know, his stuff, you know. It goes back to when him and Chris Bliss were together.

2:26:28SpeakerThey did Tainted together, and then they, I think one went to Europe and the other went to a backstate side, and then they split. One went off and went to Bliss, and the other one went to Tainted.

2:26:42BubblemanI haven't heard Chris's name in years. Chris Bliss. That's a lot.

2:26:47SpeakerThe feds came in and they busted him because he had a whole bunch of mock candies, the mounds and stuff like that. Yeah, all that, the Keef Cat and all that stuff, which were very popular. I remember that shit, totally.

2:27:01BubblemanI had a couple of those. I met him in Amsterdam one year and he gave me a schwack load of those chocolate bars. Those were terrible.

2:27:08SpeakerWay, way back in the day and he's been a very Big supporter as well as an active voice.

2:27:15MauricioReally generous guy. I've always had a good time with him, really. I mean, I've had a lot of fun.

2:27:25SpeakerHe's been around. I don't necessarily agree with everything that he says, but many things I'm like right on because I'm an ombudsman and a representative of our movement, so there's some things I can't say. And as I said, I don't agree with everything, but at the same time, it's nice to know that there's people out there willing to speak truth or speak their truth no matter how their voice shakes.

2:27:50SpeakerAnd I think that's needed across all boundaries, especially as a movement. We need good, we need bad, we need all voices. And he's always been a truth carrier and a truth teller, and I've always respected that about him. So much love, Mickey. And fuck Mickey.

2:28:10BubblemanAnd fucking shout out to Chris Bliss if you're listening, bro. It's been super long, but thinking about you just now made me smile. You were a fucking good dude to hang out with. Good old Hash Church, giving the shout outs. 675 people are listening.

2:28:27SpeakerWell, fortunately, we've got a lot of history. We go around decades, so we remember these names and have interacted with them, so much love and...

2:28:37BubblemanYeah, absolutely. That's Jeff from Aqua Lab. I think it's Jeff in here that's talking under the Aqua Lab technology's name, just said that he was like one of the pioneers for edibles. You know, he's definitely taking it to the next level, not saying he was the first to ever make edibles, but the uniques he had on it was definitely, was good, was good.

2:29:06BubblemanSo I'd like to see everyone. Can you get access to him? What's that?

2:29:12SpeakerThe Bliss Cut. Can you get hold of him? I haven't seen him. I haven't seen him.

2:29:16BubblemanMaybe Jeff can.

2:29:19BubblemanSomeone will. There's 10,000 people that are going to watch this in the next... You know, last week's episode reached 10,000 after only 48 hours. It was quite incredible.

2:29:30MauricioA lot of people watched in a short period of time. Are you there, Cheryl? It's because we talked about marijuana. Oh, is she on?

2:29:39BubblemanI don't know. I only see her face and never hear her voice. I so want to hear your voice, Cheryl.

2:29:45SpeakerThat's the frustration I had that first time.

2:29:48BubblemanShe's very tenacious, though. You notice she has been... Yeah.

2:29:59BubblemanI hope you come through.

2:30:00MauricioYou're so good.

2:30:05MauricioHey, so when did you start working on Hashish?

2:30:12SpeakerOkay. You were here. You're here. It's after I moved to Amsterdam. I mean, I moved from California and Indiana before I went to grad school, before I moved to Amsterdam. But, yeah, when I got here, I moved into a hash culture. It's not that we didn't have Hashish in California, but here that was... Ashish Culture. It was the dominant deal, yeah. But they didn't really have much marijuana to speak of, to be honest with you.

2:30:45MauricioBut for people listening, I mean, you mentioned when you were in college, you wrote your paper, what was it called?

2:30:55SpeakerBotany and Ecology of Cannabis.

2:30:58MauricioOkay. And then you followed that up with your 1981 release, Marijuana Botany.

2:31:05SpeakerCorrect.

2:31:06MauricioAnd then you started working on Hashish?

2:31:09SpeakerYeah, I moved to Amsterdam, what was it, 87? Maybe. 1987, I guess it was. Yeah, almost 30 years ago now.

2:31:21MauricioWell then, just in line of thinking of this, what's your next book project? Obviously, now that Cannabis is finished, you must be working on something else.

2:31:32SpeakerI don't know. Yeah, I'm working on another body of cannabis knowledge, actually. It's not going to be coming out as a book except possibly for sentimental value as a collection. But I'm working on trying to get this Turkish hemp knowledge together while I have the chance. And instead of publishing something from work I've done 10 or 20 years ago, I'm going to do it in reverse and publish the most of it.

2:32:06SpeakerI got a question about hash.

2:32:17BubblemanAre you in any way looking to update in the next, you know, two or three years hashish with some of the breakthroughs that have occurred in the world of dry sifting, in the world of rosin? You know, these sort of things that are fairly new that haven't really been written about.

2:32:38SpeakerWell, that's interesting that you'd mention it, because at the moment, the book is sliding out of print, I would say, because it's near future. And maybe there was a bit of a revision a few years ago, but Yeah, it's maybe done its time. Maybe the new knowledge should be somewhere else. Maybe it should be written by people who do what they're doing, not me secondhand. I mean, just personally, that's the way I see it.

2:33:12SpeakerI have stuff to do. I mean, I'm not, it's not just that, but I think people should write what they're doing. I think they are. I think they, Thank you for watching.

2:33:44BubblemanIt's the greatest concentration. It's the 90 micron, that whole book, right? It's just like, yeah, we'll do all the best shit. We'll just put it all in here. It's like we need to have the Bible constantly updated is all I'm saying.

2:34:01SpeakerI agree with you. I like books.

2:34:05BubblemanYeah, books will always have their place, just like vinyl records. People will always want vinyl. They're never going to, There's always going to be people that love them, and books, they play an important role in the sense that one day if some of this digital knowledge is lost or blipped and gone, that books can still be there.

2:34:29SpeakerThere you go. Yeah, I like books too. I'm just frustrated by... Changes in how people favor to receive information these days, shall I say. I don't want to just be cranky about it and continue publishing books just because they're cool. Now, if I can afford to publish books just because they're cool, I will do that. But at the moment, I'd sort of like to get... Since I'm not making any money anyway, I'd sort of like to get a little bang for my not buck and educate a bunch more people to get my drift.

2:35:07SpeakerI mean, give it away? I didn't make any money on that book anyway. I don't foresee making a heap no matter if it comes out in paperback, no matter if they make the Kindle a lot cheaper, whatever. Here we go.

2:35:23BubblemanHow about the Hashish app?

2:35:26SpeakerOkay.

2:35:28BubblemanNow you're talking.

2:35:31MauricioYou know, I really respect you saying that, Rob. I mean, as someone that tries to create projects like The Culture High or The Union or my first book or any of the things I've worked on like The Emperor, it's about transmitting information and sharing this knowledge. And you don't get paid on any of that stuff. It's all a labor of love. And, you know, you put 17 years into a book like Cannabis, There's obviously the only return you can get is the good feeling you get from sharing it with the public is why I'm so enthusiastic about it and I do so much for doing it.

2:36:04MauricioI don't think there's a reward so great that could, you know, really reward you for the contribution you've played in helping us understand what you've learned and communicating that. So thank you very much.

2:36:16SpeakerWell, thank you, Todd. Those are gracious words. We also spent 15 years with... Publishing the IHA, the JIHA. Journal of the International Emphasis. The first science-based chemistry journal in years. That was a good effort.

2:36:33MauricioI really actually wanted to ask questions about it, but, you know, I was sticking with Hashish. You know, when I first saw the journal in the 90s, I was blown away. And these educational kits that you put together... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:37:02MauricioWe did have a little free time. But, no, it was kind of...

2:37:30SpeakerIdeas that Sam and I could cook up together, you know. He was one of the pioneers in doing this, really. And we just needed a group that was really devoted to getting real information out to people. Whatever it was, they called it the International Amp Association, but it was really the International Cannabis Association. Dave Pate also helped us. Dave Pate was instrumental in this, and Hajo Vanderwerf worked with us.

2:37:56SpeakerOh, yeah, Hajo. And, you know, we had a good team going. And we solicited articles from all over the world. It was really pretty cool. And there was a lot going on in the early 90s that, in a lot of ways, more variety of things going on than today. There are probably more people involved than ever. The European Industrial Hemp Association just met a few months ago, and I think they had close to 200 delegates this time.

2:38:27SpeakerNow, a bit of this is a CBD buzz because it's become a hemp issue, but rightly so, I suppose. So some of that's a little bit of a bump from that. But still, what I'm saying, that's a lot of delegates to go to an industrial hemp meeting. And they're a pretty international bunch. I saw people from all over the place.

2:38:49Sarah SundayI didn't know, but I was aware of it.

2:38:52SpeakerYeah, when we got here it was just becoming legal to grow hemp again in large parts of Europe, you know, Western Europe especially. That effort, yeah, it was an effort we could help with. We helped with the Vavilov Institute trying to preserve what genetics they had. I'm not sure in hindsight how successful we were and how unsuccessful it had been before we started working with them, but...

2:39:19Sarah SundayWe'll find out with the Philo's project again.

2:39:23SpeakerYeah, we were successful in helping them out and keeping things alive. It's just maybe that the collections we preserved weren't as pure breeding as we might hope they would be. Some of Carl Hillig's work showed this a bit, and it's... It's been interpreted other ways, but it's probably just contamination and trying to keep open pollinated lines separate. They had over 400 of them, which they produced in about nine different facilities or something back in the Soviet days.

2:39:54SpeakerBut as all that fell apart, we took the money and helped them get freezers and do all that stuff they needed to do to keep what they had alive and grow some of it out. So it was all fun.

2:40:08MauricioI know that part of the collection just moved into the hands of Ben Dronkers and Hempflax, and Iowa had the honor of visiting a test plot where they had 200 different varieties growing simultaneously, and there was the gentleman out there doing all the readings and such, and it was just great to see the diversity in the varieties of hemp that came from the battle of And that's only, I believe, not even half of what he begot from them.

2:40:43SpeakerAll of this developed from their sessions, just a hybrid between two of them, and then polished up from there. So that shows you what Gene Banks can be good for right there. Yeah, I actually made the hybrid and gave it to Jay Scalaway. All right. Jess Randall in Finland, hence, Fanola.

2:41:11BubblemanHigh oil content was able to survive under...

2:41:21SpeakerI don't know if you can hear or not, but what's even more important is that it's the highest seed yielding. It'll give two tons per hectare, where most varieties can barely get a ton.

2:41:38BubblemanIt makes sense. I wonder if it's the oil content or it's just the amount of seeds that you're getting is just like double.

2:41:44SpeakerIt's just a little short plant with a great phenotype for seed production.

2:41:56BubblemanYeah, I saw him speak about it in Vancouver at the hemp symposium that they threw here one year in the 90s.

2:42:05SpeakerI was there. I spoke at it.

2:42:10MauricioSo then, you know, for those of us that are still in the world where we're calling stuff sativa and indica, obviously cannabis evolution and ethnobotany, you kind of move away from that. How do you see us classifying the current cannabis that we smoke in a more appropriate manner?

2:42:31SpeakerWell... First of all, let's talk about the cannabis we don't smoke. And that would be cannabis sativa. You mentioned it earlier. This represents the European or at least Western Eurasian traditional varieties that were used for fiber and oilseed. And those became the earliest sessions taken to America. All the rest of the cannabis, and we call that cannabis sativa. What Carl Von Linné, Carlos Linnaeus called cannabis achievements.

2:43:06SpeakerIt's not breaking with tradition to do it. It's following tradition. And then the rest of the world, apart from that cannabis, all the rest of the cannabis in the world, except for Western Europe, North America, and a little bit in South America, and Chile, a couple other places, it's all Indica.

2:43:27SpeakerAll of it. Whether it comes from Afghanistan, Or India, or China, or Korea, or Thailand, some version of India. Now this is based on basically what Carl Hillig figured out using isozymes, differences in proteins rather than differences in DNA as people are more prone to do today. But this is only research that was published 10 years ago, okay? Carl basically showed through the diversity of these compounds and terpenes and phenotypic characteristics as well, gross phenotypes, that There were these differences, and that the large encompassing group was cannabis indica, divided into, if you don't include the supposed wild or escaped types, then three subspecies, basically.

2:44:24SpeakerIndica subspecies indica, the narrow leaf drug varieties from India, basically, the ones that Lamarck had described and originally called cannabis indica. And that's, once again, following tradition. This is the main subspecies. This is what we had before we had things from Afghanistan. The Mexican, the Colombian, the Jamaican, like I talked about earlier. Thai, all that came from the, and all the African varieties too, yes. Came from South, Southern Africa.

2:45:00SpeakerCame from India, originally. From the Indian ganja variety, marijuana variety. The Other one that we know about, just to get the other one out of the way.

2:45:12MauricioCan I just pause you for a second? Are you guys like actively making ash over there?

2:45:17Sarah SundayAre we? At the moment?

2:45:21MauricioI'm wondering. It sounds like you've got a rototap going in the background. No, no, no.

2:45:26SpeakerThat was me bubbling. No, that's trying to get the camera.

2:45:30MauricioYour bong is so big that we can hear it in California. We can hear you totally.

2:45:36Sarah SundayCompletely.

2:45:37SpeakerWe've actually made 43 kilos and 200 grams of hash during Hash Church. Yes, this is really... He is making hash during the hashtag.

2:45:51MauricioI couldn't hear it the whole time. It was so repetitive and so long. There was only so many things it could be. I knew he wasn't subtly drumming to his beat in his own head. I knew that wasn't it. I knew it wasn't. It was motivated by, I'm going to get high later.

2:46:08SpeakerOkay.

2:46:10MauricioI'm just joking.

2:46:11SpeakerNow control yourself.

2:46:14MauricioMakes me want to smoke some ass.

2:46:15SpeakerAnyway, back to the hashtag. The long story, but I'll make it as short as possible. There's the Chinese varieties, okay? They were also for hemp and seed primarily, not a drug culture, at least not in recent history. And that would include Korea and Japan. And those varieties are broadleaf hemp varieties, as I ended up calling them, wideleaf hemp varieties, as Carl called them. And Then there's, of course, Afghan.

2:46:48SpeakerThat's cannabis indica, so species Afghanica, the broadleaf drug variety. That's what came to us, you know, starting in the late 70s and has been hybridized ad infinitum with the original narrowleaf drug varieties we had, and that's what's given us what we have today. So that's how we see the... How I See, Mark and I See, and others, John McPartland and Carl Hilligan, Ernest Small, although he just published a long paper and renamed them again, which I wasn't quite sure they need to, but anyway, we all are reading pretty much from the same page.

2:47:29SpeakerYeah, Sam figures it's about right. It'll be interesting to put the Phylos project to work and see... The interrelatedness of the land races that were around back in the day when they were first around and ones that were found where they were originally from and put them into this project and see how they are interrelated. This is the evolutionary side that fascinates me. I kind of know what happened on the historical side.

2:48:00SpeakerI'm much more interested to figure out what I don't know that predates my historical side. You guys are awesome.

2:48:13BubblemanSomeone's asking about Japanese strains. Someone's saying, do you guys know anything about any Japanese strains?

2:48:21SpeakerFive or six Korean ones. Yeah, there's been Korean ones. The Japanese have one registered variety. And a couple I've been waiting. Yeah, there's a few other land races around. They use them to make kimonos. Yeah, they're hemp things, yeah. Yeah, they use them to make kimonos, ceremonial kimonos. Yeah, they have ropes and all kinds of ceremonial uses. It's a really rare, expensive fiber. But yes, they do grow out there.

2:48:48SpeakerThey're mostly in a place called Tochigi, Ken, and what they grow is Tochigi Shiro. I mean, it's white Tochigi. So, yeah, that's the government variety. Very low THC. Rob, I guess you saw the article where they went and actually met with the women who actually made the garments and their teeth are worn from pulling the hemp with their teeth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Separating the fibers. Yeah, split the strips of bark into narrower strips of bark.

2:49:20Sarah SundayYeah.

2:49:22SpeakerThey ran out of fingernails. Rob, where is the hemp finder? In Japan or in Korea or in China, the finest of the finest you've ever seen? The finest temp weaving I've seen, sheerest temp, finest yarns, thinnest cloth would be Japanese or Japanese style cloth made in Korea, you could also say, but yeah, it's incredible. Can I ask a paper question? Who's making the best paper in the world right now?

2:49:57SpeakerI really don't know. There used to be a mill that did cigarette papers and stuff still in Turkey, but it's closed. I just was there. I think it's in Spain now. Spain's got Solosa, right? Not Solosia. Solosa. And we used Schneidersohn for the journal. Yeah, and Schneidersohn was the paper supplier in Germany. They're a big paper supplier. I'm sure if something, if... They made custom batches for us, right?

2:50:25SpeakerIs that what they ended up doing? No, no, they sold it on the market. We're probably the only ones that ever bought it. We might have.

2:50:37SpeakerWe printed our journals on it just to be patriotic.

2:50:41MauricioI'd like to point out that I just tried to link to your internationalhempassociation.org website and the links to the journals don't work. I get a 404.

2:50:56MauricioIf we could request that you all get that fixed.

2:51:01SpeakerI learned a few days ago at work. Yeah, it's maintained as a labor of love. So, yes, a few days ago it worked, according to Sam, so it'll probably come back on again. It's a bit difficult to search articles on it. It isn't really indexed. You have to go to each issue and see what's in it, sort of. It's not too smooth, but it's been up there for ages.

2:51:29SpeakerIt's done by one of our volunteers.

2:51:34SpeakerI was going to ask, is there an economic reason why hemp isn't being used more for paper and cardboard packaging?

2:51:46SpeakerYeah, there's probably a lot of reasons. It doesn't make much sense to grow fibers for things like packaging unless they have a very high end use. Hempflax can grow hemp fiber and get it into Mercedes Benz car door panels and stuff, but it wouldn't make, they wouldn't be able to sell it for enough if a paper processor bought it. There's also probably a limited number of paper mills that could work with it anymore too, but that's another consideration, but.

2:52:31SpeakerTravel economically. It needs to be done on a local basis. Paper making is polluting. Well, yeah. I mean, that's just a point. I mean, the fact is that you're using mostly waste from the wood and lumber industry to essentially turn into paper and pulp. That's the real story, Mark. You need more hemp. That's why there isn't enough for anything. And exactly as Rob says, it needs to be grown locally and processed locally.

2:53:04SpeakerI've made a paper. Which basically they have to get rid of. They're now mandated. In the lumber industry and everywhere else that they make chips, to get rid of their weights responsibly, they can actually sell it to a paper mill if it's the right quality for them, some of it at least. And so that's kind of a win-win situation for everybody. They don't have to get much for it.

2:53:29SpeakerBen, they've got to get rid of it. So that's what you're competing against with any natural fiber. It's not just about hemp. You know, it's...

2:53:43SpeakerIt's why we had such problems with dealing with hemp in Eastern Europe. We were so landlocked to ship or move it to actual factories to process it or strip it down into... You know, fiber, spin it into a fiber, then ship it into a manufacturer that puts it into a cloth, et cetera, et cetera. So the herd and everything is lost along the way, and it's really kind of a waste because it's just not enough of it.

2:54:06SpeakerIt's mostly grown for the fiber itself, Mark. You know, or it was back when we were dealing with it in Eastern Europe. I guess the way myself as an industrial chemist, the way I look at it is that it's cellulose. It's all cellulose. And so the cheapest form of cellulose at the end of the day is going to win. And so whether that cheapest form of cellulose comes Thank you for joining us.

2:54:49SpeakerWe've got hemp. Hemp's got a whole lot less lignin in there, which is basically what you're doing in a paper mill. You're just separating the lignin from the cellulose because the cellulose is what the paper is. At the end of the day, I don't know if 10 years or 20 years down the road, at some point, hemp is going to be a more economical form of cellulose and will replace wood.

2:55:15SpeakerIt's just an economic reality. Well, we're hoping for so. We're just starting to see test trials here in America in certain states now due to, you know, the legality. And we're going to see, you know, we're going to see a whole new industries come out of it. We were talking 20 years ago, you know, all the 50,000 products that can be made, et cetera, et cetera. But when the rubber hit the road, you know, Ben could only sell his herds for animal bedding.

2:55:42SpeakerYou know, that's what worked. That's what worked economically. That's what worked locally. That's going to happen locally and regionally as these things come to scale. That's the reality is it's cheaper and accessible right now. I think what's going to happen, and I don't know if Rob would agree with me on this, I think the main driver is going to be protein production in the hemp seed. Protein production in hemp seed is going to be the economic driver that's basically going to bring hemp to a scale of farming that, again, is going to create a huge volume of cellulose that's going to be cheaper than sawdust.

2:56:18BubblemanWell, I can tell you that the protein and the seed is exactly what we grow hemp for in Canada for 20 years now. But it's not to make it cheap. It's expensive. That seed sells for like... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:57:03SpeakerThose were hemp plants creating hemp seed for hemp seed protein.

2:57:08BubblemanIt will happen someday because, again, it's just, I think we grew 33,000 hectares last year in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Ontario.

2:57:21SpeakerWhich is not a pimple on the ass of what's grown in terms of soybean and corn, right?

2:57:26BubblemanOh God, no, or any like flax or any of the other stuff.

2:57:29SpeakerAny of the row, typical row vegetables or row industrial crops.

2:57:35BubblemanYeah, we have millions of acres of farmable land, millions of acres, so it's just a very small percentage of that, that's for sure. And it's because we've never turned it into paper, we've never turned it into products. I've always considered the fact that The infrastructures are truly immense. They are billion dollar infrastructures. People think it's just plug and play and they're like, oh, let's just use hemp for this instead of this and we'll just like, you don't even have to change anything and in fact you do have to change everything and you do change a lot of things for certain things.

2:58:11SpeakerI agree with Mark that should there be We've got enough seed grown, and seed grown, seed is the most viable thing to do with hemp. It always has been since the hemp movement changed, you know, the way people are thinking about hemp. The fiber thing has fallen away pretty much, and where's the paper, but the seed thing's carried on. If that really does take off, then of course you'd have a byproduct from that.

2:58:44SpeakerYou'd have the chaff or whatever. They need to chop it up and get rid of it like any other industry. They can put it back on the fields. You know, the lumber companies can't really put it back in the forest, but there are other alternatives. But there could be a surplus of stuff. One thing I'd like to mention is that when the hemp thing was going 20 years ago, you know, 15, 20 years ago, when it was at its heyday, let's say, it was really fascinating.

2:59:15SpeakerThere was a lot of energy to it. And Looking back, probably a lot of it was premature. I think now is a much more opportune time for somebody to try to get involved in a health business. I mean, cannabis has... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:59:55SpeakerBetter supplies of raw materials, possibly, even if the Chinese mills are still rocking. Ben's trying to get online in Romania. It'll be interesting to see how the second wave of the hemp industry pans out. Yeah, I'm excited to see how that transpires, because after being part of the initial one that kind of fizzled, there was a great deal of enthusiasm, and there still is, and it's great to see.

3:00:21SpeakerI saw the HIA just had its You know, gathering of people and such, and there just needs to be innovation and more pushing, but again, they're still stymied by this, you know, this fictitious EU seed that I think is limitating somewhat to the industrial ideas that we've been presented about cannabis. But I still think that, you know, Ben and others have proven through, you know, first-hand Realities, even though, I mean, Ben himself took 17 years lost to make a profit, you know, out of hemp flax.

3:00:58SpeakerSo that's a great deal of time, money, research. Not many people have that. So, again, respect for even having that opportunity to do that. But he's led the way for many of us to see that, yes, it can be done because my car outside has his hemp in it right now, you know, and that's a, It's a beautiful thing, but yet a frustrating thing because I still have to tell people about it.

3:01:22SpeakerThey still don't know about it. They still don't understand its possibilities. No, it's really right. No, it's a long way to go. It'll be fun to see how things change. I think the food products, the whole seed thing is really always has been the biggest interest to me. It... I like the fiber and I like all the interesting costumes women make and all that. But when you hear them talk about the seeds and what they're good for and how they've eaten them for years and then you realize that that's...

3:02:00SpeakerPossibly even more important, especially in places that have marginal supplies of good food. Oh, especially in areas of the world where people don't have enough to eat, or people are dying, or they're not getting enough nutrition, enough diet, that this can be a matter of life and death for a village.

3:02:23SpeakerYeah, for most of those places, though, that are starving, if you think about it for a minute, they're not places where you can grow hemp. So it's not like we're going to have people employed growing their own food. It's going to have to be an aid thing. You have to ship it like rice. It's going to have to be grown where it's temperate, you know, climates, when that's North American Eurasia.

3:02:45SpeakerWell, right now they're too busy plowing down the rainforest to make room for more Cattle ranches so we could have more Big Macs and T-bone steaks in the world. And to grow more soybeans to feed those animals too. Bingo. Yeah. So watch all the hemp seed that should be going to human consumption. Bovine and T-bone steaks, right?

3:03:22SpeakerI'm going to sign off here. I'm a meat eater. Thank you all for all the questions, especially these.

3:03:31Sarah SundayAnd let me see how you guys are doing.

3:03:34SpeakerWe've got to meet sometime. Awesome, Rob. Thank you for holding it down. Thank you. All you guys. ATN. Thank you, Rob, as always. Much love. Much respect. Bye-bye, everybody.

3:03:48BubblemanHave a good one, guys. Enjoy the evening in Amsterdam.

3:04:01BubblemanI'm also ready to call it a nice early hash church. That was a good three hours of wonderful conversation. I do wish that Cheryl was able to come in and share her story because that would have been super on point. But we'll make it happen for next weekend, hopefully. She'll be able to figure something out and come chat with us. And as always, thank you guys all for coming and sharing your time with us here at Hash Church episode 54.

3:04:27BubblemanI guess we will see you all next week. Hey, can I give a quick shout out? Hell yeah, you can.

3:04:34SpeakerThis is October. Berkeley Patients Group's 16 years.

3:04:40BubblemanDude, that's awesome. Happy anniversary. Blessing. Wonderful things the people, the good folks at Berkeley Patients Group is doing. Check them out if you're down in Cali.

3:04:51SpeakerYou may have to take a little sabbatical from Hash Church for the next couple of weeks, Mark. I'm going to be out west cutting down cannabis trees.

3:05:00BubblemanWonderful. Well, that's not a problem at all. If you do happen to be near a computer and those cannabis trees...

3:05:13SpeakerI think he meant to say... You cut out there, Mark.

3:05:18BubblemanWhat were you saying?

3:05:19SpeakerIt froze up at the end.

3:05:20BubblemanI don't know. My connection is so bad, I'm just trying to say goodbye, so I'll say goodbye. Thanks, everyone, for watching. Peace.