Shakespeare's Pipes, Islamic Hash Oil and Sublimation Science

0:02BubblemanWell, hello everybody and welcome to Hash Church episode 46. Wow, it's been an amazing 46 weeks and it's been wonderful to have all of you here with me. And yeah, today is actually the anniversary of Mr. Jerry Garcia's death. Lead guitarist from the Grateful Dead. As you can see, I've got my trichodelic shirt on today. Shoutouts to Canna Cussie who mentioned that. Hash Church episode 46. Here we go.

0:32BubblemanI wasn't able to turn the volume off before because it wasn't actually there, but now it is and we are good. I'm just going to let everyone know that they can come on in. Okay, guys. Yeah, so Jerry Garcia. Can you imagine? 20 years of Jerry passed on. It seems like just yesterday for me. I was living in Manitoba. I was a hemp activist. We had a hemp store called the Hemp Exchange.

0:58BubblemanAnd we all, you know, two or three of us drove these funky VW buses. We had one splitty and we had one pop-up top. And our newspaper, you know, the local Winnipeg Sun decided they were going to come down and they were going to photograph us. So I was trying to find the paper because it would have looked funny to see how young myself and my friends looked back then, 20 years ago.

1:21BubblemanBut we actually ended up on the front page of the Winnipeg Sun, I believe it was, with our two Volkswagen vans. And he asked that I pull the pop out top. And I think one of us was sitting on top of the van. That might have been me and a couple of my friends from the Hemp Exchange. My partners were there as well. And it was really cool.

1:40BubblemanIt was an awesome moment in time to sort of become a part of, you know, the end of an era. Jerry really was the end of an era for those of you that weren't... Who weren't big fans? Just let these guys know that they're good to come in. And welcome everyone. Man, Hash Church 46. I think we're going to rock it out today, boys. We're going to rock it out.

2:04BubblemanI've got my press right here from D-Nail. Let me just start by clicking it on. There we go. Tighten that up a little bit. I've got all sorts of different flavors of herb next to me. I've got some LHO. I've got some rosin. I've got some bubble hash. I've got some dry sift. I think it's going to be a good day. I say, oh, we're chaps. And we've got 235 viewers viewing us here, so maybe we should start it out with a little bowl.

2:33BubblemanOh, you need the link again. Okay. Well, I did send the link already, but I will send it again.

2:41BubblemanThere we go. Boom. Trying to get everyone in here is always the challenge. I set the link out a little early today. And the one time I did that, if you guys remember, at the beginning of Hash Churches, I accidentally sent the link to Darren one time. And he came into the room, and somehow it ended up that the whole camera locked onto him for the entire episode.

3:04BubblemanSo I'm trying desperately to make it so that doesn't happen anymore. We'll see what happens. Welcome, Etienne. Good morning. How are you, sir? I'm not doing too bad. How are you feeling? The last we spoke, you were feeling a little bit sick.

3:21Etienne FontanYeah, I caught one of those fun little summer viruses and it knocked me down. It's one of those ones where you can just sit there and just look behind your eyes. You can't do anything. So, yeah, it knocked me down for a solid week. Couldn't eat. Lost a few pounds, but feeling much better now.

3:39BubblemanGeez, isn't it crazy getting sick these days?

3:44Etienne FontanIt's rare. I'm one of those, like you guys, I eat my hemp seeds and everything to keep myself healthy. It's very surprising when I actually do, but when I do, I go down hard.

3:56BubblemanYeah, I'm telling you, that's the same way with me. Welcome, Nick. Welcome, Mark. Welcome, yes, welcome, welcome. Mark's got his guitar. He's ready. Look at that. Look at that guitar. You like the shirt?

4:14BubblemanRocking it out. Mark's going to give us a little Jerry. A little Jerry while we're getting our wake and bake on. Geez, I've still got a crust in my eyes.

4:26NickAll right. Do a sound check and tell me. Get on it then.

4:30SpeakerSounds fucking great. Yeah. Yeah.

4:41BubblemanSounds great, dude. Let me mute my mic so you don't hear any of me.

4:48SpeakerI'm an alfredo, I was a trail by 20 hours. Didn't get to sleep that night till the morning came around. Said I'm a runner but I take my time.

5:07NickFriend of a devil is a friend of mine.

5:11SpeakerCan you hear the vocals and everything?

5:20NickYou can hear all that good?

5:23SpeakerSounds good?

5:25NickNo feedback? Can't hear anything. Does that sound good?

5:33BubblemanWe can hear you, yes mon. We were hearing vocals, we were hearing guitar, we were...

5:47NickHello everybody.

5:49BubblemanWelcome, welcome, welcome. It's Hash Church episode 46 and we've got 341 viewers watching us and all sorts of fucking awesome things to talk about today for sure. So of course we have started it off with the anniversary of the passing of of a great, great musician, Jerry Garcia. Incredible. Touched my life in more ways than I can really mention. And I know he's touched the lives of, dare I say, millions upon millions of people.

6:20BubblemanSo that's pretty cool. And gosh, if Jerry Garcia and cannabis don't go together like peanut butter and jelly, I don't know what does. So this one's for you, Jerry. We miss you. But we get to listen to you every day thanks to what you left behind.

6:41SpeakerBoom!

6:53BubblemanWelcome, Mr. Chris Bennett.

6:56Etienne FontanHey, Chris.

6:57BubblemanHey, how's it going, man? Our cannabis historian is in the house. We were just blessing up for Jerry Garcia's anniversary today of the passing of Jerry. Passing of who? When Jerry Garcia passed away 20 years ago.

7:13SpeakerOh, I thought it meant somebody more recently. Yeah, no, no, for sure.

7:17BubblemanNo, the damn guy touched everyone's lives so hard still 20 years ago.

7:22SpeakerThere you go.

7:25Bubbleman20 years later, we're still, you know, really celebrating the life of Jerry. You see the way Mark came on all happy with the guitar, and it's not a somber sort of, oh, oh, Jerry's gone. It's a celebration.

7:40SpeakerOh. I guess I always observed the dead phenomena from the outside. I never really got into the dead, I guess. I don't know what it is. A couple of songs I like, but that's about it. I remember in the early 90s, you know, like when I was trying to get the whole hemp thing really rocking, and all my hippie friends were like doing everything they could to go on tour with the dead and stuff, and I was like, how do I get these guys on board, you know?

8:13BubblemanHey, I found something today that you might find interesting, Chris.

8:16SpeakerYeah. Oh, great. There's that old picture I drew. Yeah, cool. Yeah, give me a copy of that.

8:23BubblemanDude, absolutely, man. I mean, hey, I'd give you the original if you wanted it, and I'd keep the copy.

8:27SpeakerOh, no, it was a gift, brother. It was a gift, man. I wouldn't mind a photocopy of it, though. I did that in, like, 93 or something like that.

8:35BubblemanYeah, dude, that's in good shape, eh?

8:38SpeakerYeah, no, that's for sure. You know, the Bob Marley Foundation or whatever, Bob Marley Inc. threatened to sue me over that shirt when I printed t-shirts with that design on it. I was living out in Euclid on the West Coast, tiny little fishing town, got a letter from the Bob Marley people, don't print any more of those shirts. And then years later when I was working pot TV, somebody sent in some video from Jamaica of this Rasta in Ganja Field, and he was wearing one of those shirts.

9:09SpeakerIt was like, hey, I made that shirt with my own hands.

9:13BubblemanThat's pretty cool for sure. Yeah, it's a great drawing, dude. I often forget what a great artist you are, dude. It's kind of one of the things that you just do that's something you don't really promote.

9:25SpeakerYeah, well, you know, I've got different things I'm into, I guess. You know, I like writing, I like speaking, I like making videos, like lots of things, man.

9:34BubblemanAbsolutely. Well, I found that this morning in my little package, and I was like, man, I'm going to frame this up, so before I frame it, I'll make you a copy, or a few copies for that, man.

9:44SpeakerYeah, for sure, man. That's cool. Thanks, man. Glad to see it. Everybody's doing... You see that news again this week about Shakespeare's pipes? There's a lot of stuff in the UK press about... Cannabis Residues and Shakespeare's Pipes from Professor Francis Thackeray. We brought him out about 12 years ago to Vancouver and he talked about them, but he's getting a lot of press for it right now. Basically, he had a theory that Shakespeare was a pothead based on one of the sonnets where he mentions a noted weed.

10:17SpeakerHe then was able to get pipes from Shakespeare, the Shakespeare Trust, from the property where Shakespeare lived. And they gas chromiotherapy, I think it's called. It's how you drug test for residues. And they found evidence of both cannabis and cocaine as well, coca leaf. So, you know, this is in a few pipes too, not just one pipe.

10:39BubblemanAnd those are those little white sort of pipes, correct?

10:43SpeakerYeah, those little white clay pipes. They were like disposable pipes that they used back then. You'd smoke them until they were clogged and then you'd just toss them.

10:49BubblemanYeah, what is that, like 15th, 16th, what century is that?

10:52SpeakerI guess it'd be like 16th century, yeah.

10:55BubblemanOkay, yeah, because Ben Dronkers owns a building in Spain where the Cannabis Marijuana Hash Museum is. And I remember he's got the, there's at the back, he's got a busk, I believe it's of Shakespeare, and in the bottom of the busk are the little Shakespearean white pipes. And I saw that gentleman, Francis Thackeray, speak in here when you brought him.

11:20SpeakerYeah, Entheogenesis, yeah, yeah, great guy. You know, it's great because similar theories are around Dante, another medieval writer, And of course, Francois Rabelais, who incorporated cannabis into his satire novel, satire of the grail, Pantagruel. And according to the Rabelais Encyclopedia, Rabelais thought Hashish was a philosopher's stone. A lot of evidence for people making extracts in alchemy, interestingly enough. I think that a lot of that alchemical equipment Thank you so much for joining us.

12:22SpeakerForget his name offhand right now. The Templar had a cannabis and aloe infused wine that they called the Elixir of Jerusalem. And that's probably where a lot of this medieval cannabis kind of comes in through these guys after connecting with Islamic traditions.

12:41BubblemanSo Cannamed Valencia says they are not clay, it's called merchum.

12:46SpeakerNo, these ones are clay. There's merchum pipes, but these are like just clay pipes, the ones on the Shakespeare thing, the little... It's like a white clay, but Mersham is a very popular pipe one, but these particular pipes aren't Mersham.

12:58BubblemanI figured you could set that straight. Awesome. Thanks for coming in and dropping history, dude. It is always a pleasure to get a little bit of what you hold in your head. Always a pleasure to be here. Yeah, man. I see Nick is using his DeWalt clamper. Clamping the shit out of some ra-ha-ha-has. Open that up for the camera, dude. I got you big. I got you big.

13:27BubblemanNice. There we go. There we go. Yeah, look at that bud fall away. Nice returns. I'm starting to look at a return and starting to see I would call that a 15% or higher.

13:41Etienne FontanYeah, how's the new toy been coming along? What's the results you've been playing with now? You almost have a week with that machine, or the machines, plural.

13:51BubblemanAre you talking to Nick or are you talking to me?

13:53Etienne FontanI'm talking to you, sir. I can't see Nick. I just see you.

13:57BubblemanWell, my machine, which is sitting right here, I absolutely love this machine. I leave it on. It's good to go. It's a little bit hot right now at 123. I was doing it with some herb that was a little drier. I'm learning the intricacies. And this is going to be very valid information. And unfortunately, any time you have valid information, you're going to get a whole slew of bunk mixed in with that information to make it harder for you to pull it out.

14:25BubblemanBut we're going to try to decontaminate it here for you on Hash Church. I have invited Soil Grown. I know Tony will be on later with Matt Armstrong. So guys that are pressing a lot, They're really the ones that are going to have the most to say on this. We want to obviously access our resin the best possible way, the most efficiently, not contaminate it with water and get our yields on par.

14:48BubblemanThe things to me that are going to be the most important for cannabis, I talked about this with Todd McCormick yesterday actually on Skype, is the amount of moisture present in the plant. Because remember, this is a hot steam plant. Extraction. That's really what's happening. Whether it's pressure or heat, what you're doing is you're steaming the water out. It's pressing out of the butter, the hash, and what it's doing is it's carrying with it the resin.

15:17BubblemanThe resin's obviously heavier and it drops the resin off as it reaches the parchment and blows off as steam evaporates completely. And these are going to be very important factors to find out what is the perfect ratio of moisture That allows you to carry the resin out without somehow mixing that moisture in with the oil so you get this crackling, popping sort of end product. And I don't pretend to have those answers just yet.

15:46BubblemanI do hope that Soil Grown checks his messages and comes on because I don't think anyone's pressing more bud than Soil Grown except maybe Tony and Matt right now. Those guys will have very valid information in regards to, and it's going to be a great thing to get back to the hydrometer. I remember when I used to broker herb back in the day, I had this little machine that I could just stick in a half pound and it would tell me the moisture content of the herb.

16:10BubblemanSo I knew how much water I was purchasing or selling. So something to keep in mind with these machines. I love it. It's easy. I'm wrapping herb into screen packets. These are flat little bits of cannabis that I've broken up. I've got a couple of them here. And it's super easy to just drop them into an oversized piece of parchment so I can hold it and just slide it right in.

16:35BubblemanBoom. One thing I learned that I wasn't even doing is that these things have a timer on them. So you can set it up so when you close it, the one on the right starts a timer. And it'll be a 10 seconds counting down or 8 or 12 or whatever you want. I find I use a little bit less time for hash and I seem to press a little longer with herb depending on that moisture content as well.

17:00BubblemanWhat do you have to say about the moisture content, Jeff? Welcome, Jeff, by the way. I know you press a lot of bud. What have you noticed?

17:09JeffYeah, you know, I definitely have noticed that when you have a little bit higher moisture content, you seem to be getting a little bit more of that resin to come out. So I think that there's something very true about what you're saying, that you've got water boiling in there, and that's helping force the resin out. I would like to say, though, that, you know, once you're reaching those temperatures, you Even below boiling, you're going to be able to have a pressure extraction without having steam really being even part of it.

17:41JeffIf you're pressing down at 150 Fahrenheit, you have no steam. There isn't steam happening from the water. It's just the pressure. And I've noticed that when I have a lot lower of temperature, There's a lot more resin that is left in the bud itself. There's a less full extraction, although it's a lot terpier. So there's definitely, you know, this whole water content is definitely going to relate to how full of an extraction you're going to be getting.

18:15BubblemanWell, you just nailed 100% the difference between pneumatic and air pressure pressing, these multi-ton presses. Thank you for joining us today.

18:51BubblemanYeah, it's trippy for sure. I'm stoked to be playing. The more of us that get playing, the better understanding we'll have of this. Question for you, Chris, as I know you don't always get to hang out for the whole time. When do you think in history from what you know, something along the lines of this could have occurred accidentally? Pressure, cannabis, hash, and oil just dripping out of it.

19:19SpeakerWell, I don't know about accidental, you know, like I think I mentioned before there was a technique where they would take the keep and put it in a canvas bag up over, you know, far enough over a fire for just the heat and then they would slowly twist the bag and that would like create pressure and then the oil would seep out through the other side of the canvas and that would be scraped off and collected.

19:43BubblemanAlright, who's doing that?

19:45SpeakerThat's an Islamic technique. I forget where that was, you know?

19:49BubblemanPlease research it for us and find out because that is like the origins of rosin.

19:55SpeakerYeah, yeah. Between rosin and what's collected in a sublimator, is there a big difference?

20:03BubblemanI think so. I think that a sublimator is a full distillate product. Rosin is something a little, like it's not, it hasn't quite turned... It hasn't turned to vapor for a very long period of time and then recondensed over here. It's literally happening right beside itself. Maybe Horatio could give his opinion on that.

20:25NickA sublimation is a purification of a solid similar to a distillation. You're heating it up and you're condensing it out, but it's a solid-to-solid transformation without any liquid. So there is no liquid phase. It goes right from a solid to a solid. So that's what a sublimator does. That's not what's happening here.

20:44JeffYeah, I think he's talking sublimator, not sublimation, because a sublimator is definitely a heat extraction device.

20:51BubblemanWho talks about the sublimation? Which is the oil that the sublimator tends to make. It's different from reclaim in a bong or even a denail or an electric nail. The sublimator creates this oil that is completely different. It really is like a distillate. That's what they call it, this sublimate, this oil that recondenses in the stem of the bong that you can collect afterwards and it's It maintains its flavor.

21:20BubblemanThat's what's insane about it. When you take out Reclaim from a denail, even if you're Mr. Low Temp Dab Guy, it's weird and it's not something you want to like have on you or like have under your nose. Whereas the Sublimate, I mean that shit you take it out and you can just rub a mustache under your nose and wear it for the rest of the day.

21:38BubblemanIt just smells divine. I mean, So what I was saying is the difference between the sublimates and rosin. The only difference really is the distance that it's traveling. Maybe on a small little level those heads are turning into a vapor and coming out onto the parchment and then I don't know. I'm not there. I don't know if they're just turning into a liquid and carrying out like that or if they're actually turning into a vapor, carrying along the water vapor until it evaporates and then condensing on the parchment.

22:10NickIt can only turn into vapor if the temperature is at the right temperature. So the pressure itself is akin to essentially a cold press oil. All you're doing is using the moisture and the oils from within the plant to basically solubilize the contents of the trichomes, which just comes out. When you're doing it under heat, you're definitely accelerating things because the molecules move a lot faster when it's being heated.

22:36NickSo if it's below the temperature at which water boils, then definitely It's just a pressure. You're just squeezing it out of the buds.

22:45BubblemanWe're running as fast as we can to catch up to get to cold pressing, which is a misnomer at best. John, I won't mention his last name, but I have a friend named John who I've mentioned a few times on here. He was the one that released the butane method under the name Indra. And he has done a few good things. One in particular is the cryogenics.

23:08BubblemanAnd I just think that we're trying to get to cold pressing when really this guy is already like a mile and a half ahead of us doing cryogenic extraction. Not super critical, cryogenic. Quite different. So I think some of the minds in here should start thinking about cryo and how it can work to extract. From what he tells me, he gets 100% extraction rate, which is impossible, and he leaves no footprint, which is also impossible.

23:38BubblemanSo I had it tested with cannabis seeds, because I obviously couldn't send him anything illegal, and I sent him seeds, and he defatted them, and I had him tested in multiple labs, and those labs' numbers definitely testified Thank you for watching.

24:21BubblemanWhite. So this process exists. It's called cryogenic extraction, and I would love to see some of us not have to hot press our resin for another three years to catch up to cold pressing to then catch up to. We need to figure this out sooner than later.

24:41NickOkay, so the term cryo, Mark, implies that he's freezing it with like liquid nitrogen or something, which again is going to rupture a lot of the cells that hold All kinds of oils, whether it's a seed oil.

24:53BubblemanListen, you'd think that it would rupture, but when I had the seed tested, those little tiny bodies were intact. This is like, what he said to me every time was, anything I do for you, if you send it to a lab... Wow, what a big talker. And I do three labs and...

25:24BubblemanAll three of them I appeared before. We don't know what he... All of you guys, I can see it on your faces right now.

25:45HoratioWe can't hear you. Are you tripping out?

25:47SpeakerYeah, I'm like getting static and you're breaking up.

25:51Etienne FontanI thought it was me, man.

25:56NickSomeone else talk then. Yeah, we only caught about every other word, Bubble Man. Yeah.

26:02Etienne FontanYeah, so if you could go back and repeat every other other word, we'd be good.

26:09NickWe'll piece it together, yeah.

26:13Etienne FontanNo, somebody will take it off the internet and actually put it together so it's straight and forward.

26:18BubblemanSorry about that. Is my mic still doing it? I think it might be Google. A little better? A little better?

26:27JeffYeah, I think you just got your connections low.

26:30BubblemanOkay, one second. I'm going to go fix this up.

26:33JeffHey, Chris, I wanted to say thanks for that story about the squeezing the resin out of flowers or whatever it happened to be.

26:44SpeakerFrom LaValle's hashish, I'm thinking, but his book hashish, but I'm not absolutely sure on that. You know, I read it years ago, but I think it was in, Leval's big picture book on hash making. And it also could be there was some old documentaries on making hash in Lebanon and places like that. It might have been from one of those too, but I saw it years ago.

27:08JeffNice. I was just working with a reporter from Vice Magazine and mentioned you talking about that exact thing in an article. All right. Yeah, look up how to make weed dabs at home and you'll find it in there.

27:25BubblemanNice. Can you guys hear me now a little bit? Yeah, it sounds pretty good. Sounds good. I went and turned off the rest of my internet. All I was really talking about was this method that my friend John came up with, which is a cryogenic method. It's secret. He's never talked about it. He's never told anyone. But I have had his material tested, and the numbers blew the labs away.

27:55BubblemanAnd I had it tested redundantly at three labs today. Which is exactly what he told me it would do.

28:01SpeakerWell, you know, cryogenics, you freeze it before it bursts, I would think. That's why they use it for preserving bodies for future awakening and whatnot. You know what I mean? It's such an instantaneous freeze. And when you're dealing with something as small as a marijuana bud, it's probably even quicker, you know?

28:17BubblemanIf I take a big rip and cough right now, will your bird copy me? He might. All right. Let's do the experiment.

28:29SpeakerHe's like that frog on Warner Brothers, only it performs when the camera's off.

28:35Etienne FontanWhat's the bird's name again?

28:36SpeakerPopeye.

28:43BubblemanDamn, I don't think that hit was big enough to cough. Sorry. There you go. Hey, welcome Horatio. I don't think I've heard from you today. How are you doing?

28:54HoratioI'm doing all right. I wanted to say a few things about that whole rosin water issue. When you come across some bud that refuses to squish, I've completely saturated that bud. I have a vacuum oven, so water doesn't scare me. So I'm like, okay, I clearly cannot get any oil out of this bud. It just stays stuck in the material. I soaked it in water. You can't get any more oil out of that bud once the structure is collapsed.

29:23HoratioSo if there's not enough yield and it's just trapped, like once it's gooed into plant material, it's gooed into plant material. So like if you squished an untrimmed bud versus a trim bud, that's going to play a major role in how much you're able to get. Thank you for watching.

29:59HoratioThank you for watching.

30:16HoratioI just, water doesn't seem to assist the situation when you're trying to work with that. That's kind of where I'm puzzled if it's not, because I've, you know, I've used bone dry material, I use bone dry hash, and I notice if your hash is left out sloppily and moisture goes back into it, it will sizzle, but if your hash is kept dry and stored, you don't get any sizzle no matter if you go ten minutes pressing or two minutes pressing, two seconds pressing.

30:42HoratioThank you for watching.

31:06BubblemanYeah, I would think a little bit of moisture added to those low yielding strains to use that steam to sort of carry it out of the bud would definitely be one way. And then I guess the other would just be like the pneumatic press or the like many, many, many tons where it's like, well, you know, if it's like a 15% strain, we found we only need this pressure.

31:26BubblemanBut with these strains that are like very low yielding, Different bud structure, we end up with needing more pressure. It's all very interesting to me, nonetheless, I have to say. I love it.

31:41BubblemanHey, welcome, Todd.

31:42JeffGood morning, Todd.

31:45SpeakerGood morning, everybody. Happy day. Hey, Chris. Hey, Parrot. What's Parrot's name, Chris? Popeye. Popeye.

31:56BubblemanHas Popeye had a spinning day? Yeah. And Popeye. So, yeah, we were talking about the origins of rosin a little bit ago. Chris was talking about these Islamics that were hanging a screen sack or a cloth sack filled with, I don't know if it was butter resin. Was it hash, Chris?

32:16SpeakerI think it was keef, like raw keef, right? Like it was like a half hash oil, and then they'd just keep twisting it over the heat, and then it would expel oil outside of the bag, right? And that would be collected.

32:30BubblemanHmm. And so what timeline was that?

32:35SpeakerWell, yeah, I don't know when that originated. You know, the video I saw was, I think, pretty contemporary, like, you know, video or book. I think it was in LaValle's house. She's probably in the 70s or something, but I think it was, like, something that had been happening for a while. Where is it?

32:52Etienne FontanWhat did they collect it on? You said that it dripped, but what did they drip it onto?

32:56SpeakerIf it didn't drip, it would ooze like honey on the outside of the bag, and that would be scraped off with a blade or something like that, and then collected onto I don't know what. Hold on, I've got a question. What kind of bag was it? Because when we made hash before, the hash we got before, it was non-porous cellophane so that you wouldn't have oil bleed.

33:20SpeakerYeah, well, this was like a cloth bag. It wasn't used for holding it. It was used for this method of turning it over the heat and oozing it out.

33:31BubblemanMan, we might have to do that. That's a great video right there. Recreate this process of a fire heating up a bag. I mean, man.

33:42SpeakerThere is these interesting references to Duga Watt. It's like there's the Bugle of Unity, and then there's this other, the beverage of Unity, and it's a type of hash oil that was popular 18th, 19th century Islamic world, I think, you know, probably around the Afghanistan region, somewhere around there, and it was like a one drop thing. They'd put a drop of that in yogurt and mix it up and drink it, or they would smoke it as well, and it was just a drop of oil.

34:15SpeakerI don't know if it's that same oil that I'm talking about here, but... You know, hash oil is pretty old itself. You know what I mean? Medieval alchemists, Islamic, was wrought with medieval alchemists. And a lot of the groups around hashish, like the Ishmaelis, they produced some of the more well-known fathers of alchemy.

34:34BubblemanThe Afghanistan.

34:36SpeakerYeah. Yeah, here, give me a second and I'll find that reference for you.

34:42BubblemanAwesome. That's what you've got to love about these authors. They will pull out the reference. You see this, Todd? This is a picture Chris drew in the 90s, and my God, I don't even know when he gave it to me, but it was many, many years ago. So Chris Bennett drew this.

34:59SpeakerHoly, holy, wow, Chris, I had no idea you were such an artist. Dude! Oh, thanks. You better be careful. The Marlies are going to be like writing to you wanting some money for that legacy. Oh, that already happened. I was telling the story about getting the letter from Bob Marley Inc. out in the little fishing village I was living in.

35:22SpeakerTelling me to cease and desist producing it. It's a true story? Yeah. I was joking.

35:33BubblemanIt gets better. Tell them the other part of it.

35:36SpeakerAnd then later, when I started working at Pot TV, and I printed every one of those shirts by hand myself, I saw Raston, a pot field that somebody sent in, and he was wearing one of the shirts.

35:52Etienne FontanThat's awesome.

35:54SpeakerAwesome, that was my response too. Awesome. I was joking about it being so good that they would try to stop you, but no, I guess that was very right. Yeah, speaking of stuff too, there was also the oil of Kanabu, which is cannabis in Assyria. So they were making oil in Asia and Assyria. So it was like already being made into an oil. That might not have been like an extract like you guys are making, though.

36:21SpeakerThat could have been something that was... Mixed with something like olive oil. So not the same sort of thing probably, I'm guessing. But this Assyrian thing, this later thing, I'll find it. Give me a bit.

36:36BubblemanSomeone's asking, Chris, did you draw that behind you?

36:41SpeakerNo, that's by Bob High. He's a really good artist.

36:46BubblemanYeah, I got an email from Kay from Trichome Technologies the other day, and he sent me this link, which was this really simple, awesome cartoon description of what's going on in the glandular trichome head that Bob did years ago. And he was just really impressed with it. He was like, man, that's just great.

37:07BubblemanBob's done some great job.

37:09SpeakerSo here's a reference like...

37:14SpeakerWell, to this oil, and it's like a man was drugged with Indian hemp oil, and he said, this guy, like, they were ingesting it, right? And here, this is from 1874. In spite of these terrible effects, I have never heard of a strict mortal case but the repulsive habit of taking the oil of the tops of Indian hemp and various electories made from it in order to secure moral calmness will let one envisage all vicissitudes and miseries of human life in an agreeable light.

37:44SpeakerAll of this induces habitual smokers and takers of a state of remarkable dullness and indolence, which makes them renounce all human decency and delicacy. We're talking about a pretty potent little oil. In this case here, what they were talking about is people would take this oil and just a few drops of it and it would put them into like a comatose state that would almost mimic death, you know?

38:10SpeakerAnd they would think that they were dead and then they'd wake up and they'd be fine. But it was some sort of oil extract that was taken with yogurt and also smoke that was in 19th century Middle East.

38:23BubblemanI've seen that look on Breeders Steve's face a few times.

38:29Etienne FontanSo is it a type of lassi you're talking about then? A type of what?

38:37Etienne FontanLassi, since it's a yogurt drink.

38:39SpeakerOh, well, yeah, no, this is like, they didn't call it that because it wasn't in India, right? It wasn't among Hindus, but probably the lassis are made more with bhang, which isn't, you know, like, is prepared differently. This is like a drop of oil that they were putting in yogurt, so... Similar in the sense that both are made with yogurt or some sort of milk beverage, but different in the sense that one's like a cannabis straight-up extract bong, and the other one's this potent oil that could be prepared in numbers of ways, some sort of extracted oil that you just needed a drop or two.

39:14SpeakerAnd there's a number of references. I have it in my book, Cannabis and the Soma Solution. I go over a bit of whatever I could find on it.

39:23BubblemanMan, so much good cannabis history in the world.

39:27SpeakerYeah. Yeah, you know, it's like as Bob Marley said, in this great future of ours, don't forget the past. And I think that's, you know, something that's going to be really coming out. You know, I've always thought when I got involved with cannabis, I knew hemp was going to be the first thing to go, industrial hemp. And it was so imperative here in British Columbia with the destruction of our old growth forest and how we could make paper from hemp.

39:49SpeakerAnd then medical marijuana was the next obvious thing. And now the world, I think, that they've gotten used to the idea of hemp and medical marijuana, these medical effects, is really ready to hear about this fascinating relationship we've had with this plant for at least 25,000 years from latest archaeological evidence. My parent's trying to debate me here. He's like disagreeing with me.

40:11BubblemanI know. I heard that. I was like, what the?

40:16BubblemanHe was getting a little emotional as you were getting emotional. That's awesome. Oh, yes.

40:24SpeakerI completely agree, Chris. I think there's going to be a huge amount of interest looking at the history and how it connects with humanity. One of the points I made when I was over in Barcelona opening Ben's Museum was the fact that people kind of look at it like, oh, this is like a dope history or a marijuana history or it's just you smokers. And the point I made when I was sitting up there was, this is all your history.

40:49SpeakerTo me, cannabis was responsible with the evolution of humanity. Absolutely. If you look at, and tell me if I'm wrong to make the comparison, if you look at when Columbus sailed over, I sat down with Dan Rather once and I played a little joke on him. I asked him if he was a history buff, of course, and my friend sitting next to me said, don't answer it, it's a trick question.

41:13SpeakerAnd Dan Rather was like, of How can it be a trick question? I'm old enough to be history, kid. What do you got? So I said, okay, Columbus sailed over. He found a plant he did not know existed, and he couldn't find a plant that was responsible for much of his evolution. It was responsible for his paints, his varnish, his ropes, his riggings, his cloth, his paper, his maps, his Bibles.

41:34SpeakerWhat were the two plants? And then my friend said, I told you it was a trick question. And Dan was like, well, it was tobacco. He found tobacco. And I don't know what would be responsible for the, the way I put it was the codependency of evolution. And then he said, what could that be? And I said, well, was paper, the invention of paper important? Was the invention of cloth important?

41:58SpeakerAnd I went, 1492 was a long time before there was a cotton gin in 1790s. You know, so what were the cloths made out of? What were the sails made out of? And then I came to the conclusion that when he arrived here, Indians did not have the plant that Europe used to evolve, Canada. So they didn't have paper. They didn't have ropes. They didn't have any of these things that they had.

42:20SpeakerThey didn't have boats. Bigger than a canoe could bring them. I mean, they didn't have the ability to build ships. They didn't have oakum. They didn't have the ability to seal holes. It was all cannabis that they were using for all of these things. So am I wrong to say that the evolution of the Native Americans was hindered because they did not have the same environmental resource, we could call it, that the Chinese used to invent paper?

42:44SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

43:18SpeakerWe're talking about an indigenous natural relationship that goes back, you know, probably at least according to archaeological evidence, 25,000 years, and that's in the form of tools used in the decortation of decorting hemp fibers and also some hemp fiber from, I think, Around Cattle Hayek or something like that in Turkey. But, you know, the oldest evidence we have of smoking cannabis among the Proto-Indo-Europeans, this is also the people who domesticated the horse, and it's believed that the horse was domesticated with hemp rope.

43:55SpeakerSo, here again, you know what I mean, major, major thing that influenced humanity. And Carl Sagan thinks that cannabis is humanity's oldest agricultural crop. You know, like this is a view of other people. The term cannabis itself, the root word canna, comes from the oldest sort of word stock that we have. You know, the root word is so ancient it goes back, you know, like proto-Indo-European language.

44:19SpeakerSo this is really ancient stuff. And I think when you take a look at our relationship with this plant, you know, when we domesticated it, it started growing around our villages and towns, growing in our night soil, human waste and stuff like that. You know, we piss test for cannabinoids, and all that was going back in the soil, and then we're ingesting that plant, and it's ingesting us, and there's this like co-evolutionary It's a biogenetic relationship of some sort between us and this plant.

44:49SpeakerThey're calling a lot of modern diseases endocannabinoid deficiencies. You know what I mean? There's a shortage of what do you need for endocannabinoid deficiency? You need cannabinoids. You've got to take them in from somewhere else. The best source is this plant that we've had this amazing culture relationship. It seems like so much of the division that's taken place in the world, so much of the destruction of our environment, the loss of Spirituality, you know, the loss of brotherhood and those senses, so much of that, you know, so many diseases can be repaired with this plant by bringing this missing link, in a sense, in the circle of life and our connectivity to the planet, bringing it back into that circle offers so much.

45:33SpeakerCannabis is really the paradigm shift at this age.

45:38SpeakerI'm glad you said that, Chris. I think that's awesome. You know, anybody who's interested in hearing what I actually said can just go to YouTube and type in my name and Richard Branson and you can actually watch the press conference. And, you know, the museum, as Mark's been in it, it's so... Amazing, because I think even for us diehard stoners that just love a lot of things about pot, when you go in there and you see the connection to the history, how deep and integrated it is to our cultural being, it really enamors me, if that's a nice way to put it, because It just blows me away that so much history could have been suppressed for so long by so many, but now it's all coming out.

46:19SpeakerPeople like you and drunkards, I mean, are heroes for bringing this information to the people, in my opinion, Chris. And I thank you. I've always been fascinated with your work, so it's nice to sit here and have some banter with you, as you know. Likewise. I wish I was the historian you are, Chris, but I appreciate saying that.

46:39BubblemanI agree on that museum. It's touching to say the least to walk into a building that's been brought back to life with such passion and then it's all for us. It's for the cannabis community. It's definitely worth taking a trip to Spain literally to go to that museum. That's why you're going to Barcelona to go see that museum. You can do some other things while you're there.

47:04BubblemanThere's other stuff but Man, I'll tell you, that museum is incredible. And in fact, if you go on Bubble Man's World, I think if you just punch in Barcelona and Bubble Man's World, you should get a couple of good videos on there that we did in the museum. And I tried to showcase it all. Of course, you know, not so slow, fairly quickly, just to give you a little taste so you really want to go and check it out because it's definitely...

47:32BubblemanI mean, for years I had been here. I mean, I knew Chris was purchasing products, you know, parts of the cannabis history. I knew that the Skunk Man Sam was really into collecting. I knew the Ben Dronkers was collecting like a maniac. And it was like, here's these three guys and they're collecting. And I got the, you know, the odd time I got to see, you know, some of the things Chris had and he would sell me a little thing.

47:57BubblemanYou know, like an ancient hashish book or some other cool things. And, of course, going to Skunk Man's place and getting to see, you know, boxes and boxes of his collection. He'd just pull little things out every once in a while. Like, here, check these out. And I'd be like, what's that? And he's like, those are like 2,600 year old seeds. And I was like, how did you get 2,600 year old seeds?

48:19BubblemanLike, that's just insane. Like, the fact that he just put them in my hand, I was literally like, You know, it was, to me, a great moment to be able to touch, not that I touched the seeds, I touched the little glass jar that they were in, but it was a great moment for me to touch that and realize there's some, it's like you said that Bob Marley quote, you know, there's something very important, and Bernie Spears says it in a song called Now Forget Me Roots.

48:46BubblemanYou know, it's like a similar thing, whether it's like your history, your, where you come from, and sometimes that expands, you know, Depending on your vision, many, many, many thousands of years. Very cool.

48:59SpeakerIt's one thing to read about the history of medical marijuana, but it was really when we started collecting medical cannabis bottles, and it wasn't just a few. It was for all sorts, women's cramps, coughs and colds, aches and pains, whatever, and just such a plethora of these incredible cannabis medicine bottles really shows what an important part of even The pharmacopoeia of pre-World War II was, you know what I mean?

49:26SpeakerWhat an important part, what an accepted medicine. The biggest cough medicine was a cannabis medicine, Piso's Cure, you know what I mean? And so it like totally, pretty much 90% of the corn and bunion medicines were cannabis indica patches put on a corn or bunion. Works on the same sort of theory that does for tumors. You know what I mean? Stops the cell growth and the blood from going to it.

49:52SpeakerSo, you know, just incredible history that is totally brought alive when you go into a museum and you see all these bottles and all these medieval hash pipes. It like brings it alive, resurrects it.

50:03BubblemanAbsolutely. We had a good one in Vancouver. It was that David Malmo Levine put together. I'm sure you had a lot of stuff in there as well.

50:11SpeakerI bought a lot of my stuff when I sold it.

50:12BubblemanYeah, so that was very cool too. It was very different. It was very much more rootsy, cannabis activism style. That one that Ben put together is like, Organization is everything in a museum. It's ridiculous. It's as nice as any museum I've ever been in, and let me tell you, I've been in some fucking museums. I've traveled all around and been in, you know, many of the world's renowned, you know, greatest museums that you can visit.

50:41BubblemanThe hair on my arms stood up most of the time I was in Ben's museum. Like really, that building and that level of history that he's preserved. I also like that he didn't, how did he put it? He didn't like cover, he didn't like refurbish, he unveiled. He cleaned the dirt away to what was there originally. He didn't like cover it up with nice fancy new stuff.

51:09SpeakerYou know, he bought the building in 2000, long before there was any cannabis social clubs or social consciousness happening there. And it's funny because I feel like the guy collecting history is ahead of us all. He's living in the future, you know. And he bought the palace and he took 12 years to renovate it. And he said that once he started renovating it, his initial idea was to go in and make it a beautiful museum.

51:32SpeakerBut when they got in and they started removing the layers of dirt and they found the, you know, real parquet floors and they found this, you know, beautiful gold leaf, you know, in the delicate work of the porcelain on the ceiling and instead of covering it up, he spent more money, more time and had them pull all of the old And then brought back the originality of it.

51:53SpeakerBecause when you look at a lot of old European architecture, you know, love was in the details. And there's detail in everything. So when he found that there was so much beautiful detail in the place, he actually exposed it. And as you saw, the place looks incredible. Anybody that's listening can go down to the front page of my website. There's a free link to a thousand images of Ben's museum.

52:17SpeakerIt's just all the way at the bottom. You can see it.

52:19BubblemanWhy cover up when you can decontaminate? I mean, isn't that truly the art of the hash maker? To decontaminate, to unveil the beauty that is there.

52:34SpeakerThat's nicely put, Mark. Yes, no doubt.

52:37BubblemanThat's all I got today, man. That's all I got.

52:41BubblemanWait, I've got some notes here. Hey, welcome, Cuban. Thanks for coming in, buddy.

52:45CubanThank you. I hope you guys can hear me. Thank you, Kana Cussie, who mentioned that in the chat earlier.

53:17BubblemanVery trichedelic.

53:21SpeakerJerry passed today. Yeah, 20 years ago today, brother. Dude, 20 years ago today, I was in court in Ohio in the backseat of Officer Ambrose's car. She picked me up for court for fucking Northwest Ohio holding facility on that 30-pound thing. And she's all, one of the members of Grateful Dead died today. And I was like, oh, no way. She told you? Why don't you just say some names?

53:45SpeakerAnd I was like, it's probably Jerry Garcia. And she was like, yeah, that's the one.

53:49BubblemanOh my god, a cop told you that Jerry...

53:52SpeakerIn the backseat of a cop car, because she had to pick me up from jail and bring me to court. I had court this morning. But you know what, this was the day on Jerry's birthday that the Ohio judge said that they didn't fall off the turnip truck just yesterday. And he had let me turn over all of my international paperwork and my Dutch physician's prescription. And he was the one that said, if you can get one American doctor to back up your Dutch physician's prescription, I'll consider letting you have it while you're in custody.

54:21SpeakerI got Dr. Lester Grinspoon, Dr. Todd McCorea, and Dr. John Morgan the next day. Yeah, yeah. And it was by, ironically, the guy that bought David's Museum, Don Wertschafter, who's now working on reassembling the museum in America. Right. Yep, yep. Great guy. 20 years ago today. God, I'm getting hella old, guys. Jesus Christ.

54:44BubblemanWe were growing hemp.

54:45SpeakerDon't cry now.

54:47BubblemanFor the first time in our province in over 73 years, we were growing hemp. And I remember we had a hemp field. We actually did an interview with our newspaper at our hemp store called the Hemp Exchange, and I remember I was sitting on my Volkswagen van up top with my legs hanging down in front of the wheelchair, and we ended up on the front page of our newspaper saying, But after that, we all got in the vans and blew joints all the way to the hemp field, which we had this little lane cut through the middle of the field so we could drive the van right into the acreage and then just shut down and puff.

55:23BubblemanSo you looked out the windows, and often I had no screens on my windows, so when I would open the windows and drive in, the hemp plants would come into the bus. It was a beautiful thing, definitely something I'll remember for a long time. R.I.P. Jerry. R.I.P.

55:43HoratioAlright Mark, I got a three part question, so I gotta get through the first part. I was watching a documentary on this drug called Spice, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever, it's just another drug. And then I turn around and I'm like, synthetic cannabis is doing this to people, what the fuck is going on? And where did they, is this from people getting patents from GW Pharmaceuticals?

56:10HoratioWhere is this whole industry of legal highs that are... You should not be confused.

56:16SpeakerIt's not a cannabinoid. It mimics a cannabinoid in the way that it seats into your brain. So the receptors in your brain basically lock onto this phony cannabinoid synthetic fake cannabinoid. Cannabinoid. And this is what it is. It's not a cannabinoid. It's not related to cannabis. It is mimicking them when it gets in your body. Mark, could you please?

56:42NickYeah, okay. So all the pharmaceutical companies, without exception, since the discovery of the CB1 and CB2 receptors, have been looking for non-phytocannabinoids. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back after this break.

57:24NickThey have functional groups in the molecules that actually thermally degrade when they smoke, and so the vapor that you're inhaling is not of the synthetic cannabinoid, it's of the thermal degradation product, which in a lot of cases can be toxic and deadly, and why is you're seeing these adverse reactions to these things. So the notion was that we can just take a plant Any plant like switchgrass or weeds or stuff that just grows out in the field anywhere, spray these synthetic cannabinoids onto the plant and make that as a surrogate for the cannabis plant itself when we know that, again, the compounds that they're spraying onto these plants aren't meant to be Thank you so much for joining us.

58:13NickWe'll be right back.

58:42NickAnd stuff that you breathe deep into your lungs.

58:45HoratioWell, I'm trying to figure out, is it really coming from Satip? Like, is basically the really bad guy coming from, like, basically Chinese scientists extracting data from medical cannabis research? I know pharmaceuticals are all about, oh, is that from a plant? Well, let's just rip that off. Is this a side effect of that mentality, or is this just a drug attacking a receptor that isn't even close to being a species?

59:11NickDr. Yeah, so what they're trying to do is, I think they're trying to take advantage of these receptors, which mitigate a lot of biological function in the body, without using the phytochemicals because of the nature of the laws. So they all know and have recognized the importance of the CB1 and CB2 receptor. Thank you so much for joining us.

59:57NickThat does not mean that these molecules can be sprayed on a plant and when vaporized will have the same type of activity in the human body. Those are two very different things.

1:00:09Etienne FontanOne thing from the studies that I found in the 90s from the Veterans Administration cited that cannabis has been known to allow people who have mental disorders such as schizophrenia to slip in and out of personalities more lucid. More of the spice horror stories that I'm hearing are from people who have prior mental illness issues. Am I incorrect in this?

1:00:40HoratioWell, when I see the way they describe wanting to get off spice, I really see what pain, how they got onto spice. And I guess I'm interested in cannabis when it comes to dealing with addiction, so I always have to know how far the drug is taking the person before I can think of, well, do they need to eat 10 grams of CBN to get the same satisfaction of, you know, drug user satisfaction to match these crazy drugs.

1:01:10HoratioThat's kind of why I wanted to figure out is it still even cannabis related synthetics that have been hyper driven to fuck people up or is it just fucked up shit that's attacking a sensor and it's not even related to the synthetics. It's not cannabis. No.

1:01:26SpeakerAnd I want to say this, there's a little bit of negative connotation.

1:01:31NickThere's no cannabis. Dr. Totally synthetic, non-phytoderived, non-natural, patented by pharmaceutical companies similar to their drugs. This is not a phytochemical and certainly nothing that should be smoked.

1:01:49SpeakerDr. I'd like to add that when this started happening, it was the media that started calling it synthetic marijuana. It was easy to say this. It was smoked. It created this, you know, something that they didn't understand high. It really scientifically is not synthetic marijuana. And that's really, I believe it was just another attempt to put a bad reputation or something bad on cannabis when cannabis didn't have it, you know.

1:02:18SpeakerReally, this is, to me, it's yellow journalism to a degree.

1:02:23HoratioSee, I can understand that. It's just because I can also understand the side effects I saw from Marinol that I could just see this like sativa salvia and I'm like, is this just Marinol 20X? Is that what's happening to people or is it something not even... Because Marinol is not exactly the greatest thing in the world. Any type of emulation of phytocannabinoids seems to have wild side effects that are so pharmaceutical that, you know, that's what I'm trying to get at is emulating our phytocannabinoids hyper destructive or are they just in another destructive realm?

1:02:55HoratioIs it still emulating phytocannabinoids? That's the problem.

1:02:59NickThe thing you've got to remember with Marinol, remember that Marinol is totally synthetic and that THC itself and all cannabinoids, because they have asymmetric carbons, have a non-superimposable mirror image. So there's a right-handed isomer and a left-handed isomer. And Marinol, by definition, is what's called a racemic synthesis. So it's a 50-50 population of both the active and inactive isomers. So right away, half of the material doesn't have the activity that the natural material does because only the right-handed isomer is what's naturally occurring in the plant.

1:03:36NickNot a mixture of the right and left-handed isomers.

1:03:39BubblemanSo what was the name of that again, Mark, when there's 50-50 of each one?

1:03:46NickYeah, if it's a 50-50 mixture, that means that there's equal amounts of both the right-handed and left-handed. That's called a racemic mixture. R-A... Yeah, R-A-C-E-M-I-C, a racemic mixture is an equal mixture, which means it's not enantiosespecific. If it's specific for one of the enantiomers, either the right or the left-handed enantiomer, then you have what's called an enantiosespecific synthesis. But as far as I know, the Marinol that's out on the market today is a 50-50 mixture, one half of it just being not active because of the stereochemistry, which is the arrangement of the atoms.

1:04:28BubblemanInteresting. Very interesting. Did you have part two of your question, Horatio?

1:04:37HoratioYeah, okay, so now that I've gotten, I just, because I couldn't grasp the difference in that media slander and, you know, basically, is there any, I thought that the way they expressed it, I was like, okay, there's no hope for any type of rip-off of cannabis is going to go this route one way or another, so this is just another stab at all pharmaceuticals, but coming back to something closer to cannabis, when it comes to addiction, I started to get some feedback from patients when it came to, you know, Some transdermals I was working on where I'm really trying to push the boundaries in my own way of how much, how effective can cannabis be in totally replacing, and I found out there's two different types of pain release drugs.

1:05:20HoratioThere's opioids and the main other one is NSAIDs. So there's like morphine and then there's like Percocet and Vicodin, the two different classes. And why do people get it?

1:05:32NickNSAIDs are nonsense. Steroidal anti-inflammatory agents, that's what the acronym stands for. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agent.

1:05:42HoratioYeah, so it's the fact that it's the epidemic. I don't pay attention to those things. The farthest I go is a vitamin, even if I'm dropping dead. So when I hear, oh, yeah, I just take a little perk set to get to sleep, and I'm like, I thought you were part of the cannabis life. Oh, I can't get up in the day without taking a Vicodin. I'm like, I thought you said you used cannabis.

1:06:05HoratioOver and over and over again, I find out cannabis has not been brought to a level that meets the needs that can really pull people off pharmaceuticals. Or basically, you could say the concentration isn't there because... Now going into that is when I read about CBN I find it to be mostly what it does is directed towards those non-steroidal anti-inflammatories and then when I look at THC when it comes to pain it seems to be doing the things that morphine does.

1:06:35HoratioIs that a correct assessment that there's really two channels of pain relief that always have to be addressed and they're not They're not the same because I've gotten great results with muscle and I've gotten great results with nerves, but the two high concentrations don't seem to work on the other issue.

1:06:56NickWow, that's a lot to answer. You can do it! The pain mechanism is pretty highly studied and well understood on how these things work. And how the receptors that morphine and the opiates bind to is a separate class of receptors. And the general analgesic effect that you get from something like cannabis, which basically acts as a peripheral anti-inflammatory agent that, again, does a lot of different effects in terms of vasodilation, which is the opening of blood vessels and creating Thank you so much for joining us.

1:08:09NickBut there's so many fundamental mechanisms that we know, like how pain receptors work and how they fire. And again, a lot of like, if you just to think about most of the pain receptors that we have But our body that are responding to a particular inflammatory situation or if you tear a muscle or if you break a leg, I mean, the pain is telling you something. And the notion, again, that you can treat pain, chronic pain, by just basically deadening the nerve response is what you're doing when you're treating with opiates and barbiturates.

1:08:47NickAnd other potent anti-analgesics that are basically just cutting off those nerve signals. So the real thing is to treat the symptom rather than the cause and to understand the underlying reason why you have back pain or why you have neck pain or what is the cause of that pain because that pain is an important signal that's getting back to your brain that's telling you that something wrong in an area of your body.

1:09:11NickAnd it's not just a way of treating it, just cutting off that pain, but certainly a way of understanding how you manage that pain with treatments like cannabis, which again, have a mild analgesic effect and certainly can be a pain relief treatment for many types of pain, but not all kinds of pain.

1:09:32HoratioWell, that's interesting. You touched on so many different points. And because I started with using one standard product on many different ailments, the guy with the eczema hands that welds all day, he definitely had that increased blood flow. He felt his pathways were coming alive and his hands were tingling anew. The same thing with the guy with the car accident skin graft hand. But when you talked about acute types of nerve damage pain, I'm like, There's one lady who used it on her back and her back, it didn't seem physical, it didn't seem muscular, it seemed like two bones were pinching on a tiny piece of spinal meat and that seemed to be, when I used a product that was, you know, 90% THC, I'm THC, I'm pushing the amount to the point where can I give somebody's skin a dab?

1:10:22HoratioLike could I get it to be that strong in that specific place? But then it didn't work on, you could say, those softer muscle tissue I need to relax. It either killed the nerve issue or it didn't. Thank you for watching.

1:10:55HoratioWe're side effects, but I know they don't really want to take the amount of cannabis that they could physically need to deaden it. If I put it on, if I can get it to where it's acute care, how far could we take cannabis? Could we get a thousand milligrams into a one by one patch on someone's neck when they're having a chronic issue that would normally take a shot of morphine?

1:11:17NickI think so. I absolutely think so. I think the key is going to be a material that has a sustained release profile to improve the pharmacokinetics and the duration that the active ingredient is systemic in the area of pain. And so like you've local pain like a burn on your arm, I absolutely think that you can put a patch there to get local delivery of cannabinoids in such a sustained effect At a level that you can see pain relief, absolutely.

1:11:53HoratioOkay, because yeah, I started to take up so much time. I got unnerved. I have a third guy. He's like, I got my finger cut off in a stab accident. I used your cream on my hand and I got stoned, couch locked, stoned. And I'm like, okay, it's really working, but that's working on... I start going into, is that an open wound issue? Where if people can get stoned through the wound, I'm like, I know I'm penetrating the surface, but now I'm... Is he a cannabis user ratio?

1:12:20HoratioDoes he regularly use cannabis, this guy? That was a regular user. He put it on his mother's back for her back pain. She got stoned, non-regular user. I only expect that in non-regular users.

1:12:32NickA non-regular user can certainly feel that. I've seen that with patients too as well, but you tell me a day-to-day cannabis user who uses cannabis every day got high from putting on a patch. Yeah, I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. That can't happen.

1:12:48HoratioDr. Well, it wasn't a patch. It was my transdermals into his stitches.

1:12:54NickDr. Yeah. Again, unless the dose is super high, He's going to get a bigger dose when he does a dab by an order of magnitude, so I don't know how that can possibly give a physiological effect like he's high. I mean, that sounds a little fishy to me.

1:13:10HoratioThe only reason I can contradict that is this whole transdermal road came from me putting an ax in my foot and wiping my distillate in the ax when putting a Band-Aid on it, and then An hour and a half later, feeling really, really stoned and going, what the fuck? Can it really travel through the, you know, it was blood, back to my heart, back through my liver, back through my brain.

1:13:35HoratioMaybe this skin is more serious of a pathway than ever before, so I don't know. I mean, I'm going to use Bubble Man's new neck injury as the test because he's completely saturated, but... A dab doesn't go to that disc, so that's what I'm interested in.

1:13:54BubblemanI'll let you know. I'm rocking what a lot of people are rocking, which we should warn people, because it truly is, like, insane. You get all gung-ho on this rosin thing, you start pressing with your little press, and you're pressing and pressing and pressing and pressing and pressing and pressing, and then, like, some months go by, and you're like, holy shit, like, I have the most fucked up shoulder feeling going on right now.

1:14:13BubblemanI thought it was just me and then like I heard that more people it had happened to in my group of friends. So be careful out there and get yourself a press for God's sakes. It's like, Is this like tennis elbow?

1:14:27NickWe have rosin elbow or rosin shoulder?

1:14:30JeffRosin elbow. That's exactly what it is.

1:14:33BubblemanRosin shoulder. Rosin elbow. Right up here and it goes all the way here, eh?

1:14:39JeffYeah, those quick clamps that Nick was using on there earlier, they're really nice for getting a nice high yield, but they will kill your elbow, your wrist, your elbow. Yeah.

1:14:51BubblemanYeah, it's something to take care of for sure. You know, you don't want to hurt yourself. Yeah, get a pneumatic press, get a press. You know, this press I've been using many, many times, and it's so easy to close and open that I'm not worried about what I did with my little silly I mean, my God, I had the smallest little clamp thing that I was using, hair straightener, like the tiny little mini one.

1:15:13BubblemanThat was the only one I ever used.

1:15:16SpeakerNice shirt, Mark.

1:15:18BubblemanYeah, it's trichedelic. Cannabis Cussy, trademarked. He's already trademarked it. He's posting it in the chat room now with a little trademark next to it.

1:15:28BubblemanHe's got t-shirts coming. How you doing, D?

1:15:34SpeakerI'm doing good, man. Excellent. Loving the dialogue on this chat. Man, every time I jump in, there's not much I've got to say, because I can only really say bong rip, because there's... That's not true. I could not even think I could talk about that stuff.

1:15:54BubblemanI love it. Good first-hand experience. You've injured yourself more than most people have, and you use cannabis as a form of medicine, so that's...

1:16:03SpeakerI do, yeah. I've dislocated my arms. I've broken my back. I've broken my neck. I've got steel both sides of my face. My hands have just been mangled most of my life. I broke my leg and I broke my arm a couple times. And I don't take any painkillers at all. I do have a little bottle, something like this, that I carry on my motorbike with about, I don't know, five or six Percocets in it, actually.

1:16:34SpeakerAnd I've taken them. The last time I took one of those was about three years ago. And I take it on my bike rides or whatever if I'm really, really hurting. But I find that as long as I keep fired up most of the time and just going, I don't need any of them. I haven't had any to take any the last three years. So that's what cannabis has done for me for sure.

1:16:57BubblemanThat's awesome. Well, let's look forward to another three more years, Salt Percocets.

1:17:03SpeakerOh, yeah. What are 10 or 20?

1:17:08BubblemanWe'll start with three, man. We'll start with three.

1:17:11SpeakerWe'll get there first. So what's going on? We doing a bomb rip or what? Let's do it.

1:17:16CubanYeah. And you make awesome hash, man.

1:17:19SpeakerHey, thanks, buddy.

1:17:21CubanThat's why I like to see you. Sometimes I feel the same way, man. I'm just a hash maker and a grower. Sometimes when all the history stuff goes on, I find myself listening more than talking. So then I kind of see myself on mute the majority of the time. But, hey, I enjoy it, man. Hey, bro, I wanted to see your bike, dude. I see it back there.

1:17:40CubanIt looks really nice.

1:17:44CubanSweet.

1:17:46BubblemanYou can see it in action on the channel. Cuban, me and Darren.

1:17:50CubanI did. It's like, I don't know if it was a GoPro or what, but I remember a video of you guys riding.

1:17:55BubblemanIt's the Bowman and Sizzler. We start out at Shannon Falls. Me and Darren are standing under like a multi-hundred foot waterfall. And then we end up on the bikes on the highway. Super sweet.

1:18:07CubanYeah. Hey, there's nothing better than the summer when it comes to toys and stuff like that, you know. I find myself opening my garage sometimes even if it's to like turn a couple wrenches or whatever, you know.

1:18:19Etienne FontanYeah, man.

1:18:19BubblemanI'm all about the toys. I love the sift in front of the bike.

1:18:30CubanThat's a man cave right there, bro.

1:18:33BubblemanJust plates of sift.

1:18:37SpeakerI got trays of it over here drying. I like the plates more. Each one of these screens have got my weed in it because I remember one hash church. Cuban was talking about the pocket treatment, the pocket cure. If it stays in the pocket the whole time you open it up and it's still sandy and nice and not buttered up, that's properly cured.

1:19:02CubanLet me tell you something, brother. I went to Chalice, right, and I made some water hash, and my water hash was what I thought properly dried, right, and I also had some dry sift that was like seven months cured, but I had no cooler, and it was like 90 degrees plus just beating on my book bag the whole time, right? So the first day my water hash is really greasy, it looks nice, but on the second one it starts to oxidize, and now just about everybody's hash was oxidizing at that point, but my dry sift...

1:19:28CubanIt definitely was by accident for me, man, because I don't have time to dry sift all the time, so material.

1:19:57CubanEnds up just sitting in storage or in my cure room for a long time and I get excited, you know, to make something to show somebody so I pull out the exclusive turps but they've been sitting there so long that when I revisit them, you know, I've seen it at two months, four months, six months, you really can tell the differences on the resin. I just pulled down a crop and my sour, for example, that makes great dry sift, I can't even touch it because just the warmth of my finger will make it start greasing on my glove.

1:20:27CubanOn the fresh stuff with zero cure, it's just so sticky still. So cure is hell, bro.

1:20:33SpeakerYep, you bet. It's been sitting there for a month, maybe a little bit more. I'm going to probably let it sit for another month.

1:20:40BubblemanI like the way you stack the screens. Very ingenuous.

1:20:45SpeakerYou got to have that airflow, man.

1:20:47BubblemanYep.

1:20:48SpeakerStay real.

1:20:51BubblemanTruth.

1:20:53SpeakerBall rip once again.

1:20:55BubblemanWe're posting it on 700 viewers here. That's nice to see early on on a Sunday morning just after 10 o'clock.

1:21:03CubanYep. A cool idea I saw on Instagram, somebody linked me. If you don't have a drying rack, which I don't, but I have a lot of screens, right? You can stack the screens one on top of another and I use this for the 45 so I'll just put like a paper tower or something in between them and lay the hash and it allows a lot of air flow so the 45s or whatever that I don't want to back dry will properly dry.

1:21:25BubblemanIt's pretty cool. Yeah, those big screens are great for drying on, especially stacked.

1:21:33CubanOh yeah.

1:21:34BubblemanKeep dust and debris out too.

1:21:36CubanHey, cool story bro. I was at a restaurant with my wife. It was like 11 o'clock at night. And this lady comes up to us, our waitress, right? She's like, hey, I know you from TV. You're from Hash Church, huh? And I looked at her. I was like, yeah, yeah. She goes, oh, man, we can't let a Sunday go by without watching Hash Church at our house.

1:21:58CubanAnd I was like, man, that's cool. Look at that. Right in my hometown, they watch Hash Church. So, hey, props to the dude that lets his mom watch Hash Church on Sundays. His name is Spencer, my wife says.

1:22:10BubblemanThat's very cool. Yeah. Good on him. It's great to hear people are enjoying. Well, you know what? Great dialogue. Even the first hour, hour and Thank you for watching.

1:22:37HoratioAnd just reading in the chat, like, everybody started reeling off, you know, their disorder and what they're taking. And so some guys, like, I'm taking, I'm going to get cortisone shots. And I heard about that before for eczema, for psoriasis. And I'm like, okay, well, what's that about? And then it's like, well, the only downside is it potentially deteriorates bones. And I'm like, what the fuck? Are you kidding me?

1:23:00HoratioAnd then I look up and I'm like, CBN for psoriasis may potentially grow bones. I'm like, Jesus. Uh... It's not funny how much undeveloped, focused I'm hoping this dialogue is making people reconsider, well,

1:23:41HoratioCould Tony's transdermals work? Could putting the Pronoline on my skin be a better in-between right now than going to a cortisone situation? Because we know CBN is good for psoriasis. I just feel it's very, very untouched how many ways people are suffering and how they're treating it with wacko drugs. And the fact that there are cannabis solutions, they're just not there yet when it comes to the concentration needed.

1:24:08HoratioTo match what can be done with mad pharmaceutical science.

1:24:14BubblemanIt's a rough situation. I mean, I look at it, Horatio, as that the majority of side effects that exist today are because drug companies don't know how to produce something properly that can do the job that cannabinoids can. It's like you were asking about spice, like is this an attempt to recreate cannabis? It's like, I think most pharmaceutical drugs are an attempt to regulate biological function, which is what cannabinoids and phytocannabinoids do, along with diet and essential oils, essential amino acids.

1:24:48BubblemanIt seems like that's what the entire pharmaceutical industry is. A good 50 to 70 percent of it, maybe.

1:24:57SpeakerOn a good day. That's what it should be doing, is trying to, you know, The correct things for the better, but the truth is, I think the pharmaceutical industry is also tied in what they are allowed to release within, like look at the AIDS cocktail, that's three different prescriptions and it'll never be a multi-molecule drug because if they Thank you for joining us.

1:25:36SpeakerThey fudge their own rules and they prescribe this trifecta of drugs and we know it as the AIDS cocktail for when it was because of that specific law of getting around what's called single molecule testing. You know?

1:25:52BubblemanLet them know also that LD50, this is something great that you guys can learn on Hash Church today. Tell them about LD50 once you've lit your joint there, Todd.

1:26:01SpeakerWell, an LD50 is an established measurement that they use for all drugs. It doesn't matter what it is. Aspirin, you know, people joke that, you know, if you take, you know, 200 aspirin, it'll be your last headache because aspirin has a good toxicity. So the LD50 is also what people have heard, you know, joking about in the union, in the culture high that you would have to smoke like, you know, 15,000 pounds of pot in 15 minutes to have a toxic effect of cannabis and I think one of the researchers points out, you know, I challenge anybody to do that, you know, because of course it's impossible.

1:26:33SpeakerSo this LD50 is how the FDA and other governments basically... Actually, I think Skunk Man Sam did it once.

1:26:41BubblemanI think Skunk Man Sam did it once, Todd. Smoked 15,000 pounds of...

1:26:47SpeakerDoes anybody know what the toxic dose they say actually is for cannabis? It is like 1,500 pounds in 15 minutes or something silly.

1:26:53CubanHey, Mark, after he did that, is that when he obtained his special abilities to make 99%?

1:26:59BubblemanThat was it, dude. Right then and there, it came to him from a star in a far-off galaxy. This one here, actually.

1:27:07CubanOh, man, I'm going to start doing that, bro.

1:27:09NickThere is no LD50 for cannabis because no one's ever died from cannabis alone. Exactly. So the LD50 is zero. It sits outside of the LD50. The LD50, okay, so the LD50, LD stands for lethal dose. The 50, it's usually a subscript 50, stands for the lethal dose at which 50% of the test animals when tested at this level die, okay? Yep. That's what LD50 stands for. So it all depends on how it's administered.

1:27:42NickAspirin administered orally like we all take it, the LD50 is 200 milligrams per kilogram body weight. So that's how you could measure what a lethal dose for aspirin is because it depends on your body weight. So it's 200 milligrams per kilogram. You can't calculate that. That's what Grinspoon was saying on Hash Church because there is no lethal dose of cannabis. So the LD50 is zero because you cannot overdose from cannabis alone, right?

1:28:15HoratioSo what you're saying is there's infinite potential for medical application and concentration of a lethal dose. Dr. Cannabis is always going to be, in its most effective way, a cocktail of whether it's cannabinoids and terpenes or cannabinoids and their ratios to each other. That's kind of why I'm like, what is 99%?

1:28:34NickDr. People die from eating peanuts that are infected with aflatoxin, right? Aflatoxin Is a deadly material that can infect peanuts. So marijuana or cannabis is safer than peanuts. You can calculate the LD50 for peanuts. You cannot calculate the LD50 for cannabis. Awesome.

1:28:55BubblemanSafer than peanuts, guys. Safer than peanuts. That's why I can't bring a peanut butter sandwich to my kid's school for like years. My kid couldn't bring peanut butter sandwiches to school because like maybe someone in the school was allergic to peanuts.

1:29:09NickI was like, damn, that's a... Yeah, there could be a trace amount of aflatoxin in that peanut that can give somebody an allergic reaction that can be deadly.

1:29:18BubblemanYeah, it's pretty incredible. Don't want to get peanut butter flicked in your eye if you have that problem. Anyway, I think you should play us a small amount of Jerry while we all take bong rips. It's a couple minutes. All right. You guys want to hear some Garcia? Some Garcia. Just a little Garcia for a bong rip, and then we'll get back to it. Bong rips!

1:29:40SpeakerThank you.

1:30:05SpeakerHere, I'll play a song. Okay, see? Okay. Garcia. Standing on the moon I got no cup with all my shoes Standing on the moon

1:30:33SpeakerI feel so alone and blue. I see the Gulf of Mexico as tiny as a tear. The coast of California must be somewhere over here, over here.

1:30:59SpeakerStanding on the moon I see the battle rage below Standing on the moon I watch the soldiers come and go There's a metal flag beside me Someone planted long ago Oh, glory standing stiffly crimson white and indigo, indigo. I see old Southeast Asia. I can see El Salvador. I hear the cries of children and the other songs of old. It's like a mighty melody that rains down from the sky.

1:32:04SpeakerStanding here upon the moon, I watch it all roll by, all roll by.

1:32:25SpeakerStanding on the moon, I see the shadow on the sun. Standing on the moon, stars go fading one by one. There's a hero proud of victory. Another of defeat, a scrap of angel lullaby down some garden street. Standing on the moon where talk is cheap and vision true. Standing on the moon, but I would rather be with you. Somewhere in San Francisco, on a back porch in July.

1:33:35SpeakerJust looking up to heaven at this crescent in the sky, in the sky.

1:33:49SpeakerStanding on the moon with nothing left to do. A lovely view of heaven, but I'd rather be with you. A lovely view of heaven, but I'd rather be with you, be with you.

1:34:32BubblemanWell, thank you, Mark. That was very enjoyable. I fucking love a good standing on the moon.

1:34:37NickYeah, can you hear the guitar and all that?

1:34:39BubblemanOh, yeah. We heard it all. People enjoyed it.

1:34:42SpeakerKiller job, man.

1:34:49SpeakerYou have my job. I like that. That's awesome.

1:34:52BubblemanYeah, that was always such a beautiful song, too. Here comes a Californian in the house, Mr. Bizarre Brother himself. How you doing, Joshua? Well... Well... Corpman.

1:35:10BubblemanCorpman in the house. What, uh... I think we should have some hash discussion. I know Cuban came in to discuss drying... With his vac and stuff, he's a little way on vacation, but he'll be back, he'll be back. What are you guys doing differently these days to dry your hash? What's up, Space?

1:35:35SpeakerMy shirt.

1:35:38BubblemanHe's wearing my shirt and I'm wearing his shirt.

1:35:41SpeakerAwesome. Space.

1:35:44BubblemanSpace.

1:35:47BubblemanFace your face. They're on mute. I don't think they know they're on mute. Maybe that's what's going on.

1:35:52SpeakerI got to keep it muted. It gets so loud around here.

1:35:55BubblemanOh, yeah? Yes. Well, welcome, guys. We missed to see you both.

1:36:02SpeakerThank you. We're pretty choppy. We can't tell if we're coming through at all very well. As far as drying ash is concerned, I'm a really big fan of avoiding all the moisture out of it when I pull it out of the bags and putting it through a sieve and I got a batch I did the day before yesterday, and it's probably around 5%, 4%, 5% moisture content right about now.

1:36:26SpeakerAnd it'll get a little bit drier, but not much. You know, I average around between 3% to 8% moisture content, which I feel is pretty good.

1:36:38BubblemanMoisture content?

1:36:40SpeakerYeah. Yeah. That's like overall what's left residual in the hash after I'm done drying it, you know. But I'm a little rougher with it than most people are. You know, depending on what the strain is, a lot of times I'll take the pressing screen and use it just how it's implied to be used. And I will squeeze moisture out of it. And then I have a giant sieve that's just, you know, like about the size of a window screen or so and a rubber spatula.

1:37:06SpeakerAnd I will just break it up and push it through and it just powderizes it. Put it on parchment, perforated parchment, and it just dries out like Sometimes within hours, depending on how thin you lay it out. But I've found the more serious exposed, the better.

1:37:22BubblemanDo you find it still holds a real nice light color or that being a little bit rougher? Because there was a thing years ago where people would be, they'd say, don't bruise the fruit, right? But I think that it really attuned to the fact that people were pressing it in the pressing screen and then leaving it like that to dry. And I'm thinking with a good amount of water in there, when you press that moisture out of it, it's not as damaging if, and only if, you get it sieved immediately and turn it into powder.

1:37:54SpeakerThat sound about right? Oh, I don't squeeze it so hard to where I'm damaging it. I mean, I have, you know, some resins have a different... Consistency is another, especially like sour diesel or something like that. You squeeze it really hard, you can feel it almost like just crushing your hand and getting it apart after that is almost impossible. But you can do it, you know what I mean?

1:38:19SpeakerBut yeah, I don't see any bruising because of that necessarily. Usually what I see like decoloration is because of the resin, you know, I mean depending on like How old it is, you know, that's what you're looking at, pigmentation of age and reaching into a succession stage.

1:38:37BubblemanFor sure, I just mean in comparison to say something that I've seen light colored resin get run through a microplane and shredded and that oxidization of inside the heads Tends to darken the color and give it a more amber or a darkish orange or even a brownish color to it when it could have been, you know, more along the lines of something like this.

1:39:06SpeakerWell, you know, the thing a lot of times with color is, too, is like, you know, I've pulled hash, it doesn't melt at all. Almost seems like it's like...

1:39:19SpeakerBarely any resin heads at all, but any color. You know what I mean? So it's like, again, you know, like I feel that there is a certain amount where you don't want to beat the hash up. You know, I know some people are way, way nicer to it. You know, Jeff, for instance, doesn't like to squeeze it that much. Corpy doesn't like to squeeze it that much.

1:39:41SpeakerIf I got a whole bunch and I need that hash to be dried, like, You know, now I need my racks back. You know, I will treat it accordingly and get it in and get it out. You know, with higher quality hashes, I don't really see that bad of a discoloration.

1:39:59BubblemanSure. You end up seeing more of a discoloration through microplaning and being much gentler than you would be if you were a little rough while it was wet and then sieved.

1:40:11SpeakerYeah, I don't microplane. Like... I just have a problem bringing myself to shredding up resin heads. It just doesn't seem like the right thing to do to me. I don't have a problem breaking my hash up, even when it is super sticky. If you don't break it up and just leave it how it is, it will definitely discolor and turn black most of the time. Yeah, absolutely.

1:40:39SpeakerBut I don't think the difference when you sieve it and the change of You know, the hue goes from like an amber color to like more of a brownish color. I think that's kind of normal no matter what your process is. And it could depend on if it's fresh frozen or if it's dry trim material. We're playing with the dogs out here at the same time. He won't let us stop.

1:41:08SpeakerIf he does, he'll get really loud. That's a lot.

1:41:14SpeakerJack Russell Terrier, he's kind of a nut job. Mr. Chompers is his name.

1:41:26BubblemanYeah. Chomps, be happy. You're on camera. Be happy on camera. He's just like... As he starts getting like full-blown endocannabinoid system knowledge, that'd be pretty psychedelic.

1:41:43SpeakerHe's a stoner.

1:41:46SpeakerMy bad. One thing that I feel has a lot to do with coloration is each plant has a different resin signature. Even from clone to clone, as long as it's grown in the same environment and it's been exposed to the same... So, you know, it's going to develop different resins, just like how wine develops differently, you know, different mountainsides with, you know, with how they're grown as opposed to where the sun's at and different things, you know, how it's fed.

1:42:25SpeakerThey all develop different resins, you know. So that's…

1:42:30BubblemanIt's kind of like people, you know, it's like all cultures and people and how we're all kind of different depending on where we grow up and our environment sort of, you know, I watched a short Jason Silva video yesterday and it was about these sort of ontological engineers that we engineer things that then engineer us. And it was a real sort of trippy concept. And I hear when you're talking about it that same thing.

1:42:57BubblemanLike, of course there's all these different resins. The environment that the resin is grown in makes that resin what it is. And it seems as though people aren't too much different.

1:43:10SpeakerNo, no. You are certainly in many fashions a product of your environment. And this is also true with cannabis. You know what I mean? Like... Certain strains, different places grown by certain people are going to have different kinds of resin on it, no matter how you treat it as a hash maker. You know what I mean? I've noticed a lot of people who do the fresh frozen, it seems to be like something that you would come up with if you just didn't know how to break it up or how to handle it or were scared.

1:43:51SpeakerTo actually squeeze the water out of it, you know what I mean? So freezing it and then, you know, how do I break it up from this point? You know, well, a cheese shredder definitely does make a little bit of sense on that point. But, like, if your water was cold in the first place, when you pull it out, your resin is still going to have a lot of rigidity to it, you know, and it's still going to be able to handle.

1:44:16SpeakerLess tacky. A little bit of handling, you know what I mean?

1:44:20Etienne FontanAnd yes, it will be tacky, you know what I mean?

1:44:23SpeakerAnd there's like certain times when I like to leave it wet as opposed to dry. When I'm actually physically pulling it out of the bag, I like to leave it wet because nothing sticks to the bag. But when I get it out of the bag and onto the pressing screen, you know, either we wick it and just like let it draw a lot of its own moisture out or like I do, I squeeze it, you know what I mean?

1:44:43SpeakerBut I don't like Squeeze it like it was a vice or something, you know, I just get a lot of the moisture out of it and then it just breaks right up, right up. Kind of beautiful, has this amazing smell. I actually, I smoke it right then too, like I will smoke my hash right out of the bags. It has a certain taste, like for the first few hours of its curing that it will never have again.

1:45:08SpeakerIt's almost like eating fruit out of the orchard.

1:45:12JeffThose turps disappear with that water. As soon as that water's out of there, the turps are gone, those little tiny fractions of volatile turps.

1:45:22BubblemanThat's why you've got to let Horatio trap those turps first, and then just drop them back into the product, the same product that you ran to make the hash.

1:45:36SpeakerYeah. That's the key. That's another thing about freezing, about catching those water-soluble turps in the first place. A conversation I had with Jeff a couple years ago, he explained, you know, one of the reasons why people do that is because you were able to freeze the water-soluble turps in a state and then keep them there through the fresh frozen. Like, I don't know, like, necessarily how that all pans out or not, you know, but...

1:46:04BubblemanIt definitely has a space. That depends on if you're freezing in like a freezer or if you're freezing in like an actual special like sub-zero freezer that goes down to minus 51 and absolutely sucks all moisture out of the hash. Those are different things. So I think it really depends on how you're going about freezing. And certain people, most people I think just use a freezer. But I believe it was Fletch who came on some months back, not sure where he is today, and he was talking about this special type of critical sub-zero freezer that he was blasting his hash off in.

1:46:44JeffHe uses a freeze dryer to dry his stuff up. There you go. So it's frozen down to, I think it's negative 40 on his freezer, and then... Then they heat it up while it's under vacuum. And so it's the vacuum that is actually doing a sublimation of the water coming from a solid state of ice into a gaseous state.

1:47:11BubblemanSo did he collect that water afterwards and test it for terpene content?

1:47:16JeffI believe that goes right into his pump oil.

1:47:18BubblemanYeah. Oh, someone's got to make a little K-Tricome Technologies piece that's like, That traps those turps.

1:47:27JeffCold trap. Yeah, you know, I mean, a little dry ice and ethanol cold trap and you'd be able to collect all kinds of stuff that you're vacuuming off of there. So, but it's not part of the unit that he has harvest right freeze dryer.

1:47:41BubblemanRight.

1:47:42SpeakerI'm sure it would make your pump work a lot better if that unit was enacted though because I don't believe the water in your pump oil is probably a good thing. But that's how it works, so.

1:47:53BubblemanYeah, no shit, dude. Speaking of pumps and oils and all these different mystery oils, I was talking earlier about whether or not the CO2 machines maintain the similar mystery oil as butane does. You guys know about the mystery oil that's been pulled out of butane, like I guess the A guy did an experiment with a bunch of cans or something and he just ran a closed loop and he recollected this oil that was like, I guess, like a lubricant or something?

1:48:27BubblemanI don't know exactly what it is.

1:48:31JeffYeah, so there is definitely something in pretty much anything that you're going to be Distilling from any process. There's some sort of impurity. You're not going to have just the one constituent you're looking for unless you go to pharmaceutical standards. So realiztically, for CO2, it's all about where you're getting it from. I honestly don't know where everything is sourced in the United States. There's always going to be ethanol manufacturing that is going to be a source of CO2.

1:49:11JeffAnd, you know, the big fuel ethanol plants and such, a lot of them have recaptures. There's some CO2 produced that way. Same thing happens with petroleum refinement. A lot of refinement processes, you know, will create CO2, and a lot of that stuff is recaptured. But there's a lot of ways to make CO2, and so... You know, it really depends on where you're getting it from. But, you know, the state of Washington, I believe it's 99% purity is what they're requiring, which is what beverage grade CO2 is.

1:49:50JeffAnd it's actually, I think it's 99.5% purity, which is, you know, in all reality, there could be a lot of other stuff in there.

1:50:00BubblemanAnd do we know what that stuff is?

1:50:03JeffSay again?

1:50:04BubblemanDo we know what that stuff is or is it just like, do they just call it mystery oil?

1:50:09JeffWell, you know, I mean, it's, yeah, it's pretty much just a mystery because it depends on the process it came from.

1:50:17BubblemanMy take on this industry, and I've always thought about butane and propane and as well as naphtha, as well as a lot of the different, like camping fuel, for instance, has something and now it's called rust and lead inhibitor. And if you remove it, it's like this crazy toxic waste. And I've seen it removed out of propane and butane and all these other things. And I look at it and I think, well, that's just toxic waste.

1:50:42BubblemanSo I have this theory that potentially these large companies that have these monster amounts of toxic waste from the way they extract and purify their solvents, they end up with this monster amount of like either you have one option. You can break it down with cost and research, which is a lot of money and can bankrupt companies. Or you can come up with brilliant ways like putting it in parts per million into things like solvent that will get burned off on camping stoves, burned off on lighters, and like it's never meant to be inhaled.

1:51:14BubblemanAnd I just wonder. Yeah, I wonder what the fuck that shit is that they're putting into all these things to try and. It just freaks me out. I'm not a chemist, you know. A lot of people are talking about Gray Wolf in the room right now. I know he's done a lot of interesting posts over the years and it maybe would be an interesting topic one day in the future to have a guy like Gray Wolf come on and of course, you know, Mark and Horatio can get into it and just have a little discussion on.

1:51:43BubblemanAnd I was talking about this with Todd McCormick yesterday. This is not in any way shitting on any of those processes. Every process leaves a footprint. Every process leaves a footprint and so, except the impossible cryogenic one that I've only heard about and seen behind closed doors, you know, every process that we know of leaves a footprint and what I think we should be studying is What is the footprint that we're leaving and how is it affecting us and does it cause side effects?

1:52:12BubblemanIs a footprint a side effect? Is it something that shouldn't be there? Has it been altered in a way that will affect us in a negative way? Particularly those like myself who use this substance all throughout the day, every day. It seems as though those would be important topics, whether you're a water hash maker, whether you're making rosin. I mean, I thought of it with rosin. What if someone's using really low-grade screen?

1:52:38BubblemanAnd they think it's high grade screen like the stuff I buy from Switzerland and Holland and they start pressing at 300 plus degrees and they start transferring plastic molecules into their hash and they don't know that they're doing it. We don't want to give anyone information. I just think those information, and I know Horatio is the same way, should be focused on and unveiled and opened up and that should be a big part of our dialogue like How can water be bad in leftover water hash?

1:53:06BubblemanCan there be microbials? Can there be bacterias that grow in that water? I'm not afraid to expose things that could be bad with water hash. I would love to expose anything and avoid those things, much the way I would with all these other industries. Not trying to shit on any industry, just if we have found things that we like, let's figure out what's affecting them in a negative way, if any, and remove them from the picture.

1:53:32JeffYeah, so the guy that did the mystery oil thing, it's this guy, Oil Jack, or at least he's one of the guys that did mystery oil online. And he actually, right after figuring out that there was this mystery oil in there, he went and bought an Eden Labs extractor. And so he's the CO2 extractor guy now. They don't do any hydrocarbon extraction. They actually have this... It's raw CO2 oil that they have.

1:54:05JeffI think they carry it in Harborside and a few other places down there. But it's really, really, really high quality CO2 that the guy is using. He basically said, well, if I cannot get a certificate of analysis for the CO2 that I'm getting, then I need to find out where I can actually get one. And so what he went to was super critical fluid extraction grade CO2 is what he's purchasing now.

1:54:37JeffAnd it's a few hundred dollars for a tank versus the beverage grade, which is what they hook up to soda fountains to make the soda fountains work.

1:54:52BubblemanAnd has he taken his highest grade CO2 and run it the same way he did with his butane to see if this contains a mystery oil?

1:55:00JeffYeah, yeah, and they actually do. They take that and they distill it. They pre-distill their stuff before they use it. They go to the level that is just beyond what is necessary, probably. But it's going to be the very, very best that they can do.

1:55:21BubblemanIt sounds like to me that that's the least we can do is just make it the utmost safe. Not the most, but literally the least. It's like those guys sound like they're the kind of people that we would want to have on here talking and discussing why they go about something like that.

1:55:38HoratioI was going to say, I'm like, I owe them a lot of education because it's not just going, what it is is they found that a lot of things that are legal were made legal but never made for an intention to super pressurize it and use it as an extraction. Beverage grade is beverage grade. I'm going to burp up most of those things. And you don't extract the soda with it, you're carbonating it.

1:56:03HoratioIt's a completely different level than super or subcritical use of it because you could say, I started looking at what are the most subtle tastes that humans can find. You know, why is it that limonene is 0.38 parts per million, every human can detect it, but butane is... 1,200, which makes it like 30,000 times more detectable than butane. But then I looked at other things and what I found was hydrogen sulfide was detectable at .0004 parts per million by humans.

1:56:41HoratioAnd I'm like, is that the taste of petrochemical extracts to me, personally, or is it something else? And I typed that word in and it said mystery oil. It was the first thing that came up. And I'm like, holy fucking shit, that means I can taste mystery oil. way way way deeper but it's just like gleaming it's all things you can get used to it if you saturate your system it's why i would think those co2 guys that have basically tried to discover what would be an inhalation grade co2 They sound like they're going to such a...

1:57:17HoratioThey're the only ones producing a pharmaceutical medical product, if you ask me, to the best of the standards today. If they're basically saying, look, I distilled this, which means I built a machine that could, and found more gack, beverage grade is not going to cut it, especially at the scale, and at things like the trim that goes through CO2, it's legal, but so is asbestos. It just...

1:57:43HoratioWe don't have anybody else pushing the medical boundaries for us in this industry. It's us. There's no pharmaceutical coming. It's us that are supposed to make it medical. So it sounds like they're the only ones. They are a standard and they should be on Hatch Church because that's what we should be doing. Never mind what Washington Liquor Board says what's good for our bodies.

1:58:05JeffYeah, definitely. It's an interesting thing out there. I wish that we were

1:58:12JeffWe were able to have more pure gas everywhere for CO2 extractors for sure. These guys, they really are ahead of everybody else in the industry and trying to push that out there saying, hey, we're trying to do the very best and go beyond what the very best is that we can purchase. And by redistilling that, you know, and yeah, I mean, that's honestly, you know, what did all of the butane oil manufacturers start doing as soon as he came out with the mystery oil?

1:58:47JeffThey all started distilling their butane. Some of them had been doing it already because they had found that, but they pre-distilled their butane. And I think that it's definitely going to become an industry-wide thing. You know, hey, you buy the best that you can and you pre-distill it.

1:59:08BubblemanYep, makes sense to me. Makes sense to me. Take, you know, take heed, understand what these footprints can be and then try to avoid them the best as possible, particularly the ones that are detrimental because we are concentrating by nature. To concentrate something The concentrated self doesn't understand if it's good or bad or detrimental to human health or positive to human health. It only understands what's happening as you wash a solvent over it or as you wash it with water or D-limonene or whatever it is you're washing with.

1:59:41BubblemanIf there's different things present in that plant already, you can take them and concentrate them. Sometimes concentrating toxins that are like mercaptan that is in low-grade butane that is by law You can't move butane around in a city without a special permit, and that's why it's so much more expensive. It has to have the odorant put into it, which is what ethyl mercaptan is, which has about 20 different names.

2:00:06BubblemanAnd that stuff is very bad. When you concentrate it and then inhale it into your body, it's not only accumulative, but it also affects the central nervous system. So both of those things are a real bad combination to be inhaling into your body, in my opinion. So good to learn about these things in all their aspects and expose them and just try to get them changed. I think if we expose them, the more we expose them, like someone just mentioned, the bar gets raised.

2:00:35BubblemanYou can't not raise the bar when everyone knows about it and they start asking the questions like, oh, did you pre-distill that? It's like, oh, what? You know about that? Yeah, I heard them talking about it last week on Ash Church. It's like, all right, well, better raise the bar, boys. Get on that pre-distill. Whatever you're using. Absolutely.

2:00:54HoratioBecause people used to just buy a closed loop to, oh yeah, these things could distill. So I bought one. I do distill. Yeah, I got one. And then they don't in practice. That's the crazy thing. People started saying closed loop as if it was a promise that all these things were done. And I'm like, it's just a bunch of metal that can be abused. You don't have to do any of those steps.

2:01:16HoratioSo people started saying like, this was made in a closed loop. It's distilled. It became a marketing term. I've noticed that anything good we discover turns into the next reason to market. And then that other aspect of our industry latches on and says, yeah, me too, and starts to bastardize the language. And I think that's the new thing to watch out for because otherwise tomorrow everyone will have a new hashtag that their shit was pre-distilled.

2:01:47Bubbleman700 viewers! All right, I'm taking a bong wrap on that note. Oh, actually, let's make some rosin on that note. Just a quick little press. Just a quick little press. There we go, there we go. All right, we're going to press out this little bit of bubble hash that I put inside the pressing screen here. People were asking for this earlier, so I just put a couple of grams of bubble hash in there.

2:02:17BubblemanThe little pressing screen, and I close it real simple. Hold it like a joint. I'm emptying the ends.

2:02:28BubblemanOkay. Let's see what we got here. A little parchment. A little clean press.

2:02:38SpeakerWell, it's like, that's bubble, man. The guy you have maximized?

2:02:45BubblemanHey, how's it going? We're making rosin.

2:02:48SpeakerOh, they have me on. Oh, hi. There's a large picture of me on his screen. Yes, there is. That is very nice. Yeah, so I said you're on my screen. Dude, that thing squirted out.

2:03:05BubblemanDude, are you kidding me? It went to the bloody edge and came out. You're not kidding me. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

2:03:14SpeakerWhat grade was that?

2:03:21SpeakerThat is gorgeous, sir.

2:03:23BubblemanYeah, that was a nice little press by anyone's standards for sure. Yeah. You can actually grab that.

2:03:30SpeakerVery nice color to it as well.

2:03:35BubblemanThere it is.

2:03:37SpeakerYeah.

2:03:39BubblemanYeah, it's like light. Oh my goodness, I bet you get another nice squeeze out of it. So that squeeze is really nice. A little bit of 25 micron screen. Yeah, someone's like a girl on Hash Church. Whoa.

2:04:01BubblemanYes, Hash Church is a bit of a sausage party, I'm not going to lie. All right, we need to get this off the outside of here. This is going to take some...

2:04:15BubblemanGotcha.

2:04:19BubblemanPerfect. Now I can try it. Right off the table. And off the parchment. Oh yeah. Stuff cleans up real nice too. Well, we just made a little bit of rosin there. I'd say what amounts to maybe a couple of grams or a gram and a half or so. Looks like at least a 50-60% return on whatever I put in there, so I'll weigh them out later and figure that out.

2:04:50BubblemanSomeone asked to see the denail press, and I hope that that was good enough for you, because now it's time to hit the rosin that we made. Put it on there. Kind of blurry. I'll learn this camera yet!

2:05:22BubblemanWell, that's a good one. More sausage than a German butcher. All right, all right. That was a good rip.

2:05:36SpeakerOh, my God, there's a girl.

2:05:38BubblemanNo, Adam, I love this movie. I pressed without the screen. I enjoy the screen.

2:05:47BubblemanSeparates my hash from the rosin beautifully. Someone was saying I should press without the screen and I'm enjoying it. Clean. If I don't clean this soon it'll be a big bloody mess so I'm going to get to scooping this up here if you guys want to get into some deep conversation. Todd's got his back to us. He must have something to say.

2:06:18BubblemanNope.

2:06:20BubblemanAll right, well, I'm going to clean this hash up. You guys can do as you please.

2:06:25HoratioMark, do you want me to pound you with more medical grade questions? Yes, please, fire away. I'm ready. Okay, so, like, this skin organ and the different parts of the body, like, you know, elbows versus, like, why do, in the case where people are coming at me and they're called skin disorders, why does psoriasis show up on the elbow and, like, why are the...

2:06:51NickYeah, I think there's a couple of things. I would say that there's two aspects about cannabis that would help someone with psoriasis or any skin disorder in that it's a global anti-inflammatory, meaning that it reduces the inflammatory response in muscles, and it does so by a number of different mechanisms. And also, being a fat-soluble antioxidant, it's a protected It protects against oxidative damage caused by free radicals because of the nature of the phenolic groups in cannabinoids.

2:07:31NickThey naturally fight disease, as does things like vitamin C and lycopene in tomatoes. These are potent antioxidants, and especially the fat-soluble antioxidants where, again, it's very important to be able to guard from Thank you so much for joining us.

2:08:10HoratioCBD, CBN, CBC, like I thought about Tony's CBC cream that he had in the past and I was like, what if I made it? And it was, what if it was stronger? Because could that be the one, I'm always trying to target, I meet people and my arm is broken, my finger's stabbed off, I got cancer, who's, Everyone's broken in some new way, and it's just one after another.

2:08:33HoratioIt's becoming a part of life with half-church. People want to tell you their pain. So as I try to backtrace that to the information I know about the different cannabinoids, how strongly... Could the individual cannabinoids become then a targeted therapy? We've seen where people have gone crazy with CBD, but if I was distilling the cannabinoids so I could get a really pure profile out without terpenes or any interruption and just use that, how far can CBN go?

2:09:06HoratioWhen they studied it and they said it does this for insomnia where they don't say THC is for insomnia, they say it's for nausea. Where can we find more data on that to try to then say, oh shit, that means every pill that treats nausea, I can attack with a THC dominant therapy.

2:09:29NickYeah, I mean, this is the great thing about what needs to be adequately studied. And if you have protocols to make, you know, CBC is an interesting one because it's kind of like, I wouldn't call it a degradation product of CBD, but it's kind of like a more thermodynamically stable form because basically the other hydroxyl group reaches around and cyclizes to make that third ring system, which is, again, more thermodynamically stable.

2:09:57NickAnd nature likes things that are more stable as opposed to metastable. And I think what's been shown, too, is that in plasma and in the body, CBD can actually be interconverted to CBC and alike. I think that there's some kind of distribution between those two that exists in the body that I don't think is well understood and, like I've said before, might be more predicated on an individual's body chemistry more so than the exact ratio in the strain.

2:10:28NickSo while it's interesting to look at the starting ratios in the strain, From the flower on through the extract in the concentrate, what really matters is the ratios that the human body is being exposed to because that's what's basically eliciting the biological effects within our body. So it would be interesting to see, again, if we could look at the methods that you have, Horatio, and others to isolate the various cannabinoids and then to do a We have a systematic study to answer exactly the question that you're asking, which is that, you know, what is the right ratio in treating certain patients with certain disorders?

2:11:12NickAnd again, if you're doing this in a clinical trial with a statistically valid swath of the population that suffers from everything from hypertension to cholesterol to stress to, you know, very different I agree. I kind of think that's why I step back from

2:11:57HoratioYou could say clinical trials on people when it comes to oral things, but topically I'm like, if I can reduce it down to one organ that I'm really dealing with directly and I start to bypass its surface membrane, I can go a lot further because what I've gotten back is so much of an, basically people started applying it to their hopes about pain. And in a small, small group of people, I got back so many different responses that I'm like, who the fuck is supposed to track this?

2:12:28HoratioThat one's going in the direction of psoriasis and that was a positive result. And this one's going in the direction of

2:12:37HoratioThe only thing I've currently just dedicated myself to is there's no LD50 so I'm waiting until something falls out of solution or ends up stuck on the surface to know that's the end of the uptake potential.

2:12:54NickSo Horatio, what I can tell you is my own experience. I mean, I pulled my hamstring a number of months ago and I had pain in the back of my thigh. And the patches that I had were from Mary's Nutritionals in Colorado. Mary's Nutritionals makes a line of patches and salves and creams for topically applied application. Mary's Medicinals is their THC line, their line of non-THC or low THC High CBD line is called now Mary's Nutritionals.

2:13:28NickVery, very good product. I stand behind those products. So when I put that on the back of my hammy where I pulled my hamstring, I'm pushing a rush of anti-inflammatory cannabinoids through an area that has now undergoing inflammation. I can see it's red. It's swollen. When I look at the back of my other calf, I can totally see that my right hammy just got pulled. So when I put that patch on there, yeah, I got the tingling, but I certainly got an effect that made me feel as though I was feeling the anti-inflammatory nature of the cannabinoids in that area that now is experiencing gross inflammation.

2:14:12NickNow, it's been grossly inflamed because I just tore my muscle, but the point is that I think that, yes, there is a promise that acute delivery All of these types of cannabinoids through patches, salves, and creams can certainly be used topically to give without having to go through the GI and be rearranged by the chemistry in the stomach and the chemistry going on in the liver, which is very, very harsh to these compounds.

2:14:41NickYou're delivering cannabinoids directly through absorption. I certainly think that that's a valid therapy. Yes?

2:14:50HoratioYeah, I just, I'm so afraid of how, that's why I started with sublinguals. I'm so afraid of people's stomachs and that's the real dice roll. It's like a 92-sided dice and you're going to throw it every time you throw it down someone's GI tract that I don't find it to be a style of medicine that's easily, that's masterable with something as complex as cannabis dealing with so many things.

2:15:13HoratioSo that's kind of why I'm looking at Just going through the surface, maybe not through the heart, but I tried getting it into the gallbladder by the same means. The only thing I am, I'm not comfortable with patches yet. It seems like something more risque through the surface than trying to push the limits of a low, a bomb, a transdermal bomb.

2:15:35NickOkay, so let me... Let me comment on that a little bit. So again, when you're putting it through the vascular system, so when you consume an edible and it's going into your body and it's basically being distributed now through your vascular system, that's very, very different than being absorbed through your skin where it has the opportunity to deposit itself within There's a lot of layers of adipose tissue that again will slowly release as that fat is metabolized these cannabinoids to perhaps improve the pharmacokinetic profile of having the effect last longer because you're delivering not just a huge burst but you're delivering a more sustained effect because it's fat soluble.

2:16:25NickSo I think the key is to getting it into a fatty area like the skin like if you have You know, again, localized pain or inflammation, there's no reason why a cream or a salve or a patch couldn't be used to give you localized cannabinoid delivery where you can take advantage of its known anti-inflammatory properties.

2:16:48HoratioOkay, because, yeah, there's people ask the strangest things, and they're like, do you think your transdermal can work on hemorrhoids? And I'm like, yeah, if I make you a CBD version, it's... I'm glad you asked. It's what no one wants to ask, and everyone's sitting on the question.

2:17:07NickYeah, well, El Sole has that patent on long-chain esters, so he took the cannabinoid acids, made long-chain exotic esters, and just in their patent, they've, of course, claimed all these esters, and that, of course, enables the fat solubility of the cannabinoids even more so, and they have patents for those As used in suppositories, which, yeah, once you get over the, you know, I'm sticking weed up my ass thing, a suppository is a great way to administer a fat-soluble pharmaceutical, like a vitamin or something that's fat-soluble.

2:17:43NickIt's a great way to get it into the system without sending it through the GI, that's for sure.

2:17:56HoratioI don't know, Tony turned back into a picture.

2:18:00SpeakerHey you guys, have you seen this book by Asoli? Medicine, Marijuana and the Cannabinoids?

2:18:08NickYeah, that's just the latest edition of something he wrote many years ago, right?

2:18:13SpeakerNo, he didn't really write it. You know, it's got all these different contributors. I was really surprised, you know, the very first chapter one, it seems to be by the author Robert Clark.

2:18:28SpeakerIt's called Cannabis and Natural Cannabis Medicines. I found that amusing. So it's a compilation of all these really great articles by different writers and researchers.

2:18:38NickYeah.

2:18:38SpeakerIt's just repackaged. I think you just edited it. Yeah.

2:18:41NickThere's a PDF of that available for public viewing.

2:18:46SpeakerIt's actually, if you guys just, you know, not to, I didn't post it, if you just title, if you search this title, Marijuana and the Cannabinoids, with PDF behind it, it'll pop right up. First link, it's a beautiful, downloadable PDF. Somebody else already hosted it, so.

2:19:05BubblemanThere it is. Enjoy. Go Google. And welcome, Tony. I think you're driving a car, but fuck, be careful, man.

2:19:14TonyYeah, that's why my camera's not on. I'm definitely driving a car.

2:19:20BubblemanWhere are you heading, man?

2:19:23TonyI am heading up to pick up some special essential oils to complete this prana massage and deep muscle topical oil that I'm releasing this week.

2:19:37SpeakerNice.

2:19:37TonySo I am locally sourcing out lavenders, Roman chamomiles, Different types of essential oils. I'm releasing Acrana Massage and Deep Body that can be heated or applied normally. And it's 420 milligrams, 4 ounces blend of arnica oils, almond oils, Roman chamomile in small dosages. You could put it, if you're talking about topicals, it's really, really, really expensive to purchase. It's like $40 for a little tiny bottle. Thank you for watching.

2:20:44TonyUm, that does not cause allergic reactions. Um, that can be really good for in a Julia stick like anti inflammatory nerve pain related topical that you want to give a cure massage therapist or you want to rub it into joints or knees, things like that. Um, that is what I'm releasing. Um, I've been using it for like a year, maybe a little bit longer. And then kind of got tired of all the other topicals that are out there that are water-based or just not all essential oils.

2:21:20TonyLike, it costs more money, but honestly, you pay for what you get when it comes to medicine and relief. So I'm on the hunt. And then I will finish it up today, and that's what's going to be part of my little Act Now store at Harborside. It's my last little piece.

2:21:39BubblemanYep. That sounds like an enjoyable afternoon right there, hunting down essential oils.

2:21:45TonyYeah, yeah. Well, you know, the other thing is, like, it's good to, like, I've been, each one of them, kind of, like, sourcing each one of them. You know, you could do it online and different things, but it's all about trying to find, like, something local that you can kind of give back to the community and, like, have people, like, You know, people spend a lot of time creating these essential oils and they've got, you know, like Washington's huge on lavender oil, so it's a great place to source that.

2:22:16TonyEugene's really good for certain types of certified organic type of products. Each area offers something different and it's all about trying to find the right people and kind of supporting them in whatever you do, you know.

2:22:35BubblemanTotally. So what is the method of extraction for the majority of those oils? Are they doing like a steam distillation?

2:22:41TonyAre they doing like... Well, if you look up lavender, if you look up essential oils, they do two different things. Some people take olive oil, like the old school method, you take olive oil, you put your lavender in the olive oil, you put it in a crock pot for three hours at like 100 degrees, and you extract lavender oils into olive oil. Some bigger companies obviously do like a nitrogen and steam distillation.

2:23:12TonySome will do a CO2 like if you look at the fragrance world. But really what you're trying to do is get the purest form of it so that way you can blend it with your other oils. So like pure arnica oil or almond oil, you know, you can make almond oil yourself. So there's a Different types of things, you know, like the Roman chamomile I could make myself too, and a distillation as well.

2:23:39TonyBut there are definitely people that have been doing it for a while, and if you find the right one, then you're game on, you know?

2:23:51BubblemanVery cool. Yeah, we were just talking earlier about just these different mysteries, mystery oils that are present in so many of the different gases, even CO2. And so I was just wondering what process those oils had gone through. We were kind of talking about how it's, or I guess I was talking about it at least. One of the points I brought up was the idea of really focusing more on the footprints that are left behind in our extraction process and how those footprints can potentially either work for us or against us and just have a better understanding of those things so we don't use a particular, Concentrate, especially when concentrating, because anything you use to concentrate, well, you have the ability to concentrate both the best part and maybe potentially the worst part that shouldn't even be in there.

2:24:45TonyYeah, well, and you've got to look at, is it a smokable, is it a digestible, is it a topical, is it a transdermal, and those are the four categories in my world. So if you've got older material, you know, I'm actually using my PranaFat now as my Oh, a guy just, his car just broke down right in front of me. Wow. Interesting. Okay. But no, I'm actually using my PranaFat now as the quote-unquote solvent for a lot of these extractions.

2:25:17TonySo I've kind of, God, I really wish this guy would move. There's only like 500 cars backed up because of it.

2:25:25BubblemanYou know what was funny earlier? Someone said, I wonder if we'll see Tony Road Rage.

2:25:31TonyYeah, it's funny.

2:25:33BubblemanThis is the beginning of it.

2:25:36TonyNo, I'm in a good place these days. I'm not raging anymore.

2:25:40BubblemanI'm just joking. I've never seen you road rage ever, dude.

2:25:46TonyNo, some things get at me, but other things that bother other people, they seem to just roll off of me. There's just certain things that get me really, really hot, and there's certain things I'm just like, eh, whatever. It's just life, you know?

2:26:00JeffYep, that's true.

2:26:02TonyI was in San Francisco, you'll love this, going back and forth between Oakland and like Ukiah area. I made one wrong turn. I didn't get off my exit and all of a sudden I took the bridge over to San Francisco, that Bay Bridge. And if you don't have one of those passes, they do this really cool thing where they put all the majority of traffic through the tolls.

2:26:29TonyAnd they left the people with the passes all the way to the right. And I was probably like an hour and 15 minutes to go a quarter of a mile just to get to the toll. And when I got to the toll, I stuck my hand out and she goes, she goes, do you have $5? I was like, no, I was wondering if you had 25. And she said 25.

2:26:47TonyI was like, yeah, because that's what my time really would be worth for me to come to you and to use your bridge. Like that's a, that's a discounted rate. I need $25 to use the bridge. And she just looked at me totally perplexed because I spent an hour and 15 minutes just to get to the bridge. And then when she wanted $5, there was still bumper to bumper.

2:27:09TonyAnd that was another 45 minutes. And I knew what was going to happen because I was really low on gas. And I said, I'm going to run out of gas on the bridge. And it's going to cause a lot of problems. So I think if you gave me $25, I'd feel a little bit better about the situation that's about to happen. And... She started laughing and all kinds of stuff.

2:27:30TonyI was like, okay, well, I gave her $5. An hour later, got over the bridge, couldn't find a gas station anywhere right off the bridge in San Francisco. So my car died right in the middle of downtown San Francisco with no gas at 4 o'clock. And, you know, I got my dog and everything, and I knew that was going to happen. And oddly enough, I didn't rage.

2:27:58TonyI just got in a cab, went and found a gas station, got gas and came back and kind of went on my way, but I don't get rage on the car. I don't know why. I'm not really like, there's nothing you can really do. It's just like, there's just millions and millions of people and there's nothing you can really do or hope. Like, you're on the 101 and it's backed up, like honking your horn, driving like a lunatic, Pushing people off the road.

2:28:29TonyI love when I see those people. It's just like, bro, that's not really helping anyone, you know?

2:28:36BubblemanYeah, I hear you, dude. I hear you. Well, you have Ash on your side, so, and I mean, think about it. You're actually on a journey for essential oils. Who could ever get upset being on a journey for essential oils?

2:28:49TonyWell, yeah, and then I was listening to what you guys were saying about those suppositories. I didn't know if Has anyone in the panel actually tried them before?

2:29:03BubblemanOoh, Tony's putting that question out there. All right, who wants to go on camera and admit to shoving things up their ass?

2:29:09HoratioSome of the cannabis things? Cannabis things?

2:29:15TonyNo, no, no, just cannabis related. We don't care about anything else that you've shoved up your butt.

2:29:24HoratioEveryone's asked me like, well, do you do suppositories? And I'm like, I have to look at tear apart and debunk and then go at it. But no, I was talking about the use of transdermals in the hemorrhoid area, the outer, basically seeing how close that tissue would, it's a very good tissue for transdermal application. There's a lot of people who would wipe it in their ass, then will put it up their ass.

2:29:51HoratioJust think about all the Old school mafia type men that need help. So I was thinking about how close to basically working around people's issues inside. I'm sorry.

2:30:05TonyCould you just make it topical and not make it transdermal? I mean, wouldn't that be just like they do with the other ones, the other hemorrhoid creams?

2:30:12HoratioNo, well, I'm using, hemorrhoid reason was a way of not saying rim job. I'm trying to be conservative. It was a, I'm talking about that skin area because I'm after like, okay, let's say you do have prostate cancer, but let's say you almost punched the doctor when he tried to examine it. You're just not going to change and you're willing to die ignorant. I'm working on like could I get, how close can the skin do it if I cram the skin, could I get a gram into a square inch?

2:30:45HoratioThat's what I'm trying to figure out. And in the anus tissue, there's a good chance that type of membrane tissue can take it. I'm sorry it's gruesome, but it's serious.

2:30:54TonyNo, no, it's not crazy. I've had... Believe it or not, I've had patients that have had hemorrhoids and they take the, they take like a Prana P2 or a 3 and they open it up and they've used it there and they said it worked out really well. The thing is, it's like, you know, I don't think, you know, the whole point of like a sublingual or a transdermal or even like we haven't talked about nasal sprays, there's a lot of membranes there, even eye drops, there's ways to deliver things that are very, very efficient and And I think the point is that you need less medicine to be more efficient at that.

2:31:32TonySo sticking a whole gram right there all at once instead of building that up every day, like every time you applied, let's say you had 20 to 100 milligrams, call it 100 milligrams every time, and you did 100 milligrams every day, you would constantly be absorbing that. And so I think that would be more effective use of the medicine and the application of it Um, over, you know, a week course or two weeks, then trying to jam, you know, a gram worth in such a small volume.

2:32:07TonyUm, and that was how we actually developed, uh, the fat that we did. And, and when I was in the lab with Chris and he was asking me, uh, Chris from the clear, he's like, Oh, what is it? And I, I kind of told him down the chemistry of it. And he's like, Oh, that's like infinite amount of absorption. So I'm able to get, you know, 100 milligrams per milliliter of the fat, whereas an olive oil is maxed out at a 30% absorption rate.

2:32:34TonyAnd so when you think about your delivery and you think about your absorption rate in your base or whatever you're using as your parent driver, then, you know, same concept. You probably don't need a whole gram. You probably need 100 milligrams to be applied every day. Just to like put that out there, you know. So that's how I look at little things. And, you know, I had Chris try a 20 milligram capsule and he was knocked out for six hours during the day.

2:33:03TonyHe's like, whoa, what happened? I said, bro, you told me you could do a hundred milligrams. And I tried to tell you when you can deliver medicine at a faster, better, more efficient rate, you need less of it. And that's been like, that's been my whole MO for the last two years is like, how do we diversify quote unquote one gram of hash into multiple Uh, into a better and multiple delivery stage so that you can maximize that 700 milligrams or 800 milligrams or 900 milligrams, you know?

2:33:35HoratioIt's a lot. I think I hit a wall where I totally agree with that, but then I come across the other side of human suffering in which those, I'm trying to deal with the most You could say the 20 most dangerous pharmaceuticals and why humans choose those when everything else fails. So the reason why I'm, let's say, looking at that tissue for one gram to go through is because I'm trying to combat someone who just swallowed 10 pills a day and they do that every day.

2:34:06HoratioIt's a different dimension. I'm trying to see if cannabis can really go to the end. Thank you for joining us.

2:34:24HoratioTriggering people's natural rejection response. If they got that high orally, they would quit. If they had to push it through the gate, they would quit. So I'm getting my most success in people who think this transdermal won't make me high, so they become open to cannabis. And then they're subtly being introduced to the types of experiences. They go, I feel relaxed and I love it. And they don't know it's just low amounts of CBN that are helping them.

2:34:53TonyYeah, so if you look at, so when I said multiple delivery, that would be, so you just gave me my everyday patient. So why I'm going behind the bar is exactly that reason. So having capsules, topical, transdermal, and a sublingual, having access to four of those particular elements allows you to build different types of programs for people. So if somebody had a dependency on opiates, as an example, and they had hemorrhoids, And they had problems sleeping and they also had seizures.

2:35:25TonyYou can correct all of those with those types of deliveries. And so in the sense of if we know it puts our body in homeostasis and we know that the CB2 receptor has to be turned on with THCA or THC, that's in your peripheral organs, you can do 5, 10 milligram inactive capsules Uh, 20 milligram capsules and I have a program that builds it up using, utilizing THC A or THC and you start titrating those up as you pull down the, uh, the medications and you allow them to come off those medications as you substitute that.

2:36:08TonyThen I replaced the THC with CBD as I'm, as I'm recovering and repairing that. And in that same process you could use a hemorrhoid and you can, um, Use it or you could use a sublingual in all three. So you're triggering CB2, you're triggering CB1, you're addressing the topical, you're reducing the pharmaceutical drug, you're cleaning up the inside GI, utilizing those three methods is how I would approach it.

2:36:37TonyInstead of just like one gram through that particular process, think about it in a circle and how you can ping Thank you so much for joining us.

2:37:11HoratioAnd I lack this, this, and this. And I'm like, oh shit. I see totally how being, you know, it's like lean. The people who are addicted to lean, I'm like, well, I'm sure I can get you off lean if I can get enough CBN into your system in a way you're comfortable with. Because the last burial to healing is always ignorance. And people are ignorant. They're not going to eat it.

2:37:33HoratioThey're not going to, a lot of people don't have jobs that they're going to get tested. But for some reason, because of their ignorance, they will try a transdermal which could get them high anyways. And then become comfortable with it and then go, you know what, I support cannabis because I've never gotten, you said it, people will pay for relief and I've realized how much money people spend getting scammed and not getting relief.

2:37:58HoratioIt's not until the guy says, I've tried a hundred creams and nothing's worked like yours. And I'm like, how much do you pay for those creams? And he's like, at least $150 each. And I'm like, I just charged you $20. Oh my God. Everyone could benefit if I was, you know, 10 people.

2:38:15TonyYeah, and then you got, you know, and the next level is that we're not doctors or nurses or practitioners, so that's also part of the program.

2:38:25NickHey, I'm a doctor. What the hell? Are you? Yeah, I have a Ph.D. I'm just a doctor.

2:38:32TonyOh, who's yelling that? I didn't see. Scaldone. Oh, so you've worked in the ER and you've worked with pediatrics and children and patients and And you've had a doctor's clinic office and seen people and worked with them with other drugs and stuff?

2:38:52BubblemanNo, he has a PhD.

2:38:54HoratioHe froze, but you mean MD. And that's what I mean, Tony. One way or another, because the left brain world is not leading the charge, you end up being the prairie doctor. I get these questions. Will it work for cervix cancer? And I'm like... I am not a consultant, but my experience.

2:39:16TonyYeah, and that's where I was at before. And so, you know, I realized a while ago you need professional help. And that's why I took on practitioners and MDs and other people that, you know, they got great questions. You know, like just last week, now I've empowered nurses to handle issues Patients with these particular qualifying conditions that you're talking about, cervical cancer, serious conditions with other types of drugs, and they understand what those other drugs can do.

2:39:51TonyThe side effects of those drugs, sometimes better than an MD and a doctor because they see it on a daily. And if you put them with a little bit of knowledge and they're cannabis driven to utilize the plant and the product that way, they come up with really interesting things like, You know, if somebody has cancer and your blood sugar is low in the morning, would that be the best time to concentrate the dosages of the one-to-one THCA and CBD active in that particular time frame?

2:40:26TonyLike, those are things that are coming up now that are, to me, are awesome because I'm like, wow, you know, there's probably four of those a day because once you start empowering nurses and people that are In play that deal with medications and patients and things like this. They're used to like other things that we're just, at least I'm not qualified enough to do it. I might be qualified to make the products, build a program and empower people, but I'm not qualified enough to answer every single question on a medical level of what could possibly happen with different types of cancers, tumors, drugs that you're putting into your body.

2:41:02TonyThat's just above my pay rate. And I probably have 400 Facebook messages sitting there asking those type of questions. And now I'm, you know, I've built out that website. I've put nurses in place. And I'm like, you know, when it gets complicated, you know, you need to talk to somebody professional. And I built in, in the cost of our product, you're talking about when that person's paying $150 for a hemorrhoid cream, you know, there's insurance that's paying for it.

2:41:29TonyThere's insurance that pays for the doctor visit. There's all of these Things that go into that that make that a service behind the product. So that's what the whole act now. And what I was trying to do is empower the professionals there that says, okay, when you buy a capsule, you're not just buying a capsule and going home and trying to figure it out. I'm giving you a free practitioner, a free, if you've got cancer, I'm giving you a practitioner that deals directly with you in real time, on the phone, through the software, with the products, With the messaging board, with the Skype built into it, all HIPAA compliant, with your portals, set your own appointments, message the nurse, like having a personal one-on-one with those patients is a service behind it.

2:42:18TonyBecause if you try to do the service and the medicine, then you're going to be buried like I was two years ago, and even last year. And you never, you could, Because we're compassionate people. We want to help people. You want to build a hemorrhoid cream that's going to knock it out of the park. And if you do, then you have to say to yourself, okay, I could make that for $20 at cost, not make any money, and help that person.

2:42:43TonyBut what you're doing is you've created something unbelievable that then needs to have a service that then needs to get to the masses. So where people don't understand the difference between an individual making that and you taking that idea to the masses, Of course it's going to cost more money because of all of those things that go into it. So you just need to go to that next level as you're developing stuff and say, okay, I've got this hemorrhoid cream that's better than the other hundred that are out there and develop it with the full package and the full service and everything.

2:43:16TonyYou know what I mean? Because you'll just get buried, bro.

2:43:22HoratioIt's really perpetual bearing. Remember when it was just about, I need your turps for my back? I need your turps for my back.

2:43:31HoratioBut I try to vocalize as much as I can out through the Hash Church system so that people are helping each other in all the demographics we can't reach. It's funny, I wanted to, that's kind of what a prairie doctor is. We need more, cannabis is a plant-based medicine, so it's more of an intuitive as well as left experiential apothecary type medicine. Thanks for watching.

2:44:16HoratioThey are the ones that most likely know those style of people. So it's no different than working with the homeopaths and everyone else. It's almost, in my case, the doctors are the last because they think they know the most. But yeah, I totally agree. It's not until I hear you used it on your face, the wax hurt your face from some cosmetic. It's the cosmetic industry that I found is the most abusive in the topical world.

2:44:46Tony100% abusive because there's no insurance that covers it and they're charging astronomical prices to look better, wrinkle free, you know, they make a big, very interesting claims without making claims and they get away with it and they're crushing people out there and then they'll take it even further with their own Farmer reps and getting other doctors to prescribe it and that same thing happened like about a year and a half ago.

2:45:19TonySomeone in my family has bad neuropathy on hands and feet and they're paying like a couple hundred dollars for this like tiny little cream and they rub it on their feet every day and I'm like, so does that help? And they're like, yeah, like maybe 10%. I'm like, okay, well how much does it cost? It's like $500, right? You know, and you're like, it's synthetic crap that you're putting on there that somebody said was good.

2:45:47TonyAnd ultimately it's about the result. So then I was like, for neuropathy, I use capsules. I use sublinguals. And I was, I'm able to do that with P2 inactive during the day and a P3 active or inactive at night. And people were coming back saying, wow, I don't have any, I don't have any neuropathy. I'm golfing every day. And, uh, And I feel alive again. And it's mostly the 55, 65 and older patients.

2:46:18TonyPatients, you know, our bodies break down. We get older. Our systems aren't working. And I always try to explain it like a spark plug, like a circuit plug. If you had a block with 100 holes in it and another block with 100 pins in it and you put them together and all the pins were there, the electricity still worked. You still get to fire everything. If you took that same block of pins and you removed 10% of those pins or 10% of those pins were rusty or broken inside or fell off and you put that block together, you still have electricity.

2:46:52TonyThe system still works. Electricity still passes through all of those little pins. And so that's the same thing that's going on with our endocannabinoid system. It gets a little rusty. Sometimes it doesn't get used. Sometimes it malfunctions. We get an endocannabinoid deficiency. Doctors aren't really looking at those kind of things. And they develop into Alzheimer's, MS, fibromyalgia, epilepsy, cancer, tumors, IBS, Crohn's, rheumatoid arthritis, neuropathy, all kinds of stuff.

2:47:23TonyAnd in my opinion, I see it as an endocannabinoid deficiency. And maybe that's leading into other receptors that have deficiencies. But what's happening is we get older, things break down, and cannabinoids, And phytocannabinoids are supplements. That's all they are. And people are freaking out over them because of the stigma of it because we've smoked it, we make concentrates with it, they see a stoner world, and they don't really take it serious.

2:47:54TonyBut really, it's a supplement for the body that's key to pull that back together. And CBD and cannabinoids, they're regenerative, and they're rebuilding those pins that are missing. Instead of the pharmaceutical drugs where they go into that same circuitry and they say, well, those 10% pins, they don't really exist anymore. They just stuff a bunch of, they just stuff a wire back in there and they say, okay, if you send a signal through here, I'm going to send it back through your system and tell you that that hole isn't gone and it tricks the body and it creates other chemicals and other side effects because if your body and your mind was Tricked and 10% of that receptors in the communication was reversed like our traffic light.

2:48:41TonyBut imagine if all the lights were green and then all the lights were red and then after all the lights were red, they said, okay, you're now in a one way. You have to back up. And that's what's going on with pharmaceuticals. They're, hey, you had a green light. Now there's a red light. Now I've blocked you. And in many cases after long-term abuse, now I'm asking you to go backwards on the road that you just came.

2:49:05TonyAnd so that's long-term horrible abuse on the body. And so I'm finding 5, 10 milligrams, whether they're microdosing in sublinguals or capsules, one a day or two a day, just the smallest amount is changing our seniors' lives. And it doesn't take a lot. It doesn't take 50, 100, 400 milligrams, maybe 20, maybe 10 milligrams a day. And now their neuropathy goes from severe neuropathy where they can't move their hands to, hey, I've got 70% relief or I have 50% relief.

2:49:44TonyAnd that's how it starts. So if a patient comes back and they say, you know, I've got neuropathy. It's at this level of a nine. I took a 10 milligram for four days straight of your P2 inactive. And now it's at a 40. Then we go, okay, let's do better. What is it that, when's the pain coming back? What's going on? And that's why you need nurses to talk to them and say, okay, we've basically figured out that you need about 20 milligrams a day and we can get you 85% to 99% effectiveness.

2:50:16TonyAnd that's what it's, that's what I've been all about and trying to like fine tune and it's, it's, it's a, it's a huge undertaking and people on Instagram can hit me up like, why are you just doing this in Harborside? Well, It's 37 SKUs. That's P1 through P4, 5, 10, 20, 50 milligram, activated, inactivated, with the same mirror in sublinguals. There's two different types of transdermals, a topical line.

2:50:47TonyIt ends up being 40 SKUs. And then you have to stock it 250. Thank you for joining us today.

2:51:19TonyJust to non-members, we had to have people sign up. We still do because of the scarcity. When something works and somebody comes back to you, the injustice is when they can't get the medicine. That's the shit I live with every single day. I don't sleep. It puts me in tears when I can't get people what works for them. So I've spent almost a year trying to build that, trying to build a store and trying to build that inventory so that Harborside opened their doors and said, hey, we'll give you our retail merch bar.

2:51:51TonyWe'll give you everything you need. You can have your own store. We just want you to help people. They've opened their door in allowing me to staff it, stock it, run it the way I want to. I'll be there personally. I've got the full support. And their MO for us was helping people. It was like, how can we get this out there? And everybody there started the program, and everybody Really was getting a lot of relief.

2:52:17TonyAnd so that's where that's been at. I could, like imagine if you tried to stock 30 other stores with 37 SKUs. You'd run out of medicine in like four weeks in California. Everybody would run to it. Everybody would get it. 75% everybody would say it worked unbelievable. They come back for it and it's not there. I can't live with that. So I have to start focus one place, One store and branch out and, you know, we'll be able to deliver to 40 surrounding cities from that one location.

2:52:53TonySo I'm doing the best I can to try to make the medicine and get it out to the people and do it in a manner that has a service behind it and the accessibility behind it that it doesn't run out, you know, and it's fucking really hard. I'm 18 hours a day. Sometimes I go two days straight. You know, so I'm just kind of preparing you because I know you're super talented, you're in Canada, and like, I'm sure you get slammed and bombarded by, you know, everybody as well, and you got to get organized.

2:53:30TonyYou got to get like, you got to get some people behind you and get organized.

2:53:35HoratioThere's no structure. I end up in a position where federally medical patients, and you could say I'm responsibly So, federally, everyone's on a federal level, so from anywhere they want to approach me, but I'm also just a personal patient. There is no such thing. The government is now targeting anyone advertising anything cannabis related. That's their new program as they go into the election. So, I'm in a...

2:54:02TonyWait, wait, wait. Wait, what was that? So, you're allowed to do... So, if Canada finally... Because I'm trying to catch up on Canada a lot. I've been just buried in my own world. So, Canada... Past the Concentrates allows you to do some kind of milligrams and capsules and things like that, but now you can't advertise to get to the... There's no advertising for that?

2:54:24HoratioNo, there's no... Anything that sounds legal is for corporations only, all 25 of them. Everything else is no different than... There's no system. Vancouver has the outlaw dispensary structure that's locally tolerated, but as soon as you cross the bridge to go home, there's no such system. You go to jail like anybody else unless you're a federal medical patient. So among federal medical patients and the dispensary system, everybody clearly helps each other.

2:54:56HoratioSo all the hopes and dreams of all of even those 40,000 patients can end up Thank you so much for joining us.

2:55:21HoratioThe only way to really attract a situation that could free me from this legal bind is to focus on the worst of the worst cases rather than everybody getting mild relief. It's the worst of the worst cases so that when things go potentially sour, I have something that nobody else has and it gives results that will free me pretty much.

2:55:47TonySo as an individual federal patient, I'm just trying to understand the laws there, can you supply the LPs or collectives or those 25 companies, or is it all vertically integrated from their side?

2:56:03HoratioI'm supposed to be supplying myself. It just became Supreme Court legal for all patients to extract for themselves, but then the government came in and said, no taint, water, no highly flammables, and for the corporations, no oil that's stronger than 30 milligrams per milliliter.

2:56:26Tony30 milligrams per milliliter, wow.

2:56:30HoratioYeah, so it's a lot of olive oil people have to drink in order to get a serious dose of medicine.

2:56:38TonyWow. Okay. That's fucked up.

2:56:45NickThat's like... Yeah, remember, you're drinking it, man. It gives the GI and it completely changes everything. As soon as you put gastrointestinal juices in contact with cannabinoids, it changes them. They're all different after that. You know, if it's going sublingually, that's one thing, but if it's going down the GI, whether it's a capsule or something, it completely changes the makeup of the cannabinoids in your product, period.

2:57:13HoratioThey basically prescribe that the corporations find fillers. That's the worst part, is that the ratio that they demand demands fillers, and those fillers are going to have side effects.

2:57:27NickAbsolutely.

2:57:29TonySo that's like, basically, 30 milligrams is a 15, 30 milligrams per milliliter in my world is 15 milligram capsule. So that's like 5, 10, 15 milligram capsules.

2:57:42HoratioSo you put, your capsules are a full milliliter?

2:57:46Tony0.5 milliliter. If you get a number one capsule, it's 0.5 milliliter per capsule.

2:57:53HoratioOkay, so you would need a double capsule. So basically, yeah, I Basically, in that realm of capsules, it's okay. Two capsules basically could get you your 30 milligrams. It's when I get into the cancer child that is able to digest 600 milligrams of distilled cannabinoids and still go to school and his father can't look at it without hitting the washroom. So I know his body can't consume it.

2:58:26TonyYou would have to do like 30 milligrams three times a day in capsule. You'd have to do the transdermal. You'd have to do the sublingual. You'd have to stack everything at the same time just to get 600 a day.

2:58:39HoratioYeah, versus what he's able to swallow on a few nuts or in a sandwich in peanut butter. So you can see how it's a trap, but it also meets the convention. They're trying to invent an LD50, so that's basically what they put it at, nothing stronger than capsules, which is palliative care, where I'm trying to go for extreme care, which is somebody... Yeah, they don't want you to get...

2:59:06TonyThey don't want you to have that. They want the bigger companies to do it.

2:59:12HoratioIt's the reverse. They force the bigger companies to actually, they're the only ones that can legally give it to everyone. They don't want them to have anything concentrated. I can make it for myself and you can break the law sharing it.

2:59:25TonyOkay. Okay. Yeah, we pulled out of Canada. We were just like over it, man. It's like, it's a tough market. I just, I don't know. I'm just, I'm tired of all the roadblocks. I just want to help people. I'm just going, I'm going back old school. I'm making a ton of medicine and I'm going to just start helping people. And I'm going to do it within the system that exists here in California and Colorado.

2:59:55TonyBut like I went back to like Denver, Denver, Colorado at least has a regulatory body to where we could do it a hundred percent legally. And now we've got Fox Street full tilt with like four people nonstop and I go back and forth and I feel like at least now moving forward in the situation I'm in in both places, I get a lot to juggle between just two states and I'm happy just helping those two sources right now, you know?

3:00:29TonyIt's like it's a lot to try to, we were trying to do it in multiple places and It's tough. Every law in every country and every state is completely different at their own pace with their own agenda. A lot of politics. A lot of big corporation shit in the middle.

3:00:50TonyIt sucks. Once upon a time, I used to be like just in my house. And I felt like I did a lot more when I was just growing and I was making medicine. You know, and just like an individual, like where you're at. I think what you got to do is look at like, you can't help everybody, but the ones that you can help, take it with gratitude and like satisfaction that, you know, somebody comes to you and says, hey, that hemorrhoid cream was, was the best I've had in a hundred.

3:01:26TonyThat should fucking, that should make you tear up because you're changing somebody's life. And yeah, you might want to touch 10,000, but if you could touch 10,000, You're still significant difference in the world. You know, it seems like you want to like, you want to be, you want to, you want to touch tens of thousands, which I can respect. And that's what I've been trying to do too.

3:01:48TonyAnd it's, you know, sometimes it's hard to like be content, say, okay, this is where I'm at. This is as many people as I can help and feel satisfied that you're a soldier and you're helping people, you know?

3:02:03HoratioWell, it's caught in that mixed world because each hash church perpetuates the hope in the 10,000 to pull...

3:02:11HoratioEven whether it's the 10 or the 100 in the local situation, but each week gets worse, so it's like, well, this transdermal thing could get so serious, because it's, when people don't understand, I'm like, no, you don't get it. I made the LHO, I made the dry sip, I have the fucking terps, I just distilled this, I just made your transdermal, and you're asking if you could all, all of that is available at the same time?

3:02:34HoratioAre you insane? I just finished Hash Chalk.

3:02:40SpeakerYou know, guys, I hate to interrupt the conversation about such incredibly interesting topics, but I've got to go touch some other stuff other than hemorrhoids, and I wish you all a great day.

3:02:54BubblemanOh, you missed all the funny quotes. There was ass church. There was ass church. There was trans anal cream.

3:03:06SpeakerI was just great. I was suddenly grateful I had cancer as a child and none of the things you were talking about. I was like, God, you know what? It's perspective. It could be traffic. And, you know, I look at prison as a great lesson. It made sitting through red lights really, really easy. And now hearing you guys talk about hemorrhoids, I'm just really glad I just had to go through good old chemotherapy and radiation.

3:03:32SpeakerSo, cheers.

3:03:35JeffOh, my God.

3:03:36TonyHey, I'm... Hemorrhoids is a serious thing, though. You know, I'm like, knock on wood, if you don't have it, man, knock on wood.

3:03:45SpeakerListen, I didn't say anything because I felt like this is serious shit, you know? People, this is really, really, this is touching. I mean, you can't sit down without it being on your mind, you know? I mean, it's... Well, I mean, if you've ever... Search in that area, I guess.

3:04:05TonyI mean, if you ever met anyone with hemorrhoids, and I know quite a few, God, I mean, they're on little air pillows, and, you know, I've had, I haven't had them before.

3:04:18SpeakerThey're obviously not sitting in 101 traffic comfortably on a fucking radio show.

3:04:24TonyYeah, maybe that's why some of those guys are raging, because they've got hemorrhoids, and they're like, I can't fucking take it anymore, I've got to get off the road.

3:04:33SpeakerSo next time you're in traffic and somebody is freaking out, just break. Let them go. They might be having a hemorrhoid moment and just need to get past you. Let that be. Let that be.

3:04:47TonyThat's a good way to look at it. Like, oh, must be hemorrhoids. Let them go. Let them go. That must be hemorrhoids.

3:04:54SpeakerLet them go. I'll break for hemorrhoids. That's a good bumper sticker, Todd. Is some asshole bothering you? Don't worry. It's just the hemorrhoids. Let them go past. Oh, that's great. That's the hash philosophy right there. Unreal. Well, Mark, thank you for another great Sunday morning making jokes.

3:05:22BubblemanHey, thanks for coming to Ass Church.

3:05:25SpeakerDude, it's the best one ever, man. Next one's on the beach, right? Yeah.

3:05:33SpeakerOh my God. No jokes about high times in Jamaica. Okay.

3:05:41TonyOh, did I miss something about high times in Jamaica?

3:05:46SpeakerI was kidding. Just joking. Just joking.

3:05:53BubblemanOh, okay, okay. You guys are hilarious. Hey, welcome.

3:06:00SpeakerWe just came in under the name Grilled. All right, guys. Well, I got to jump. You have a wonderful day, everybody.

3:06:06TonyMuch love.

3:06:07SpeakerThank you.

3:06:08TonyAll right. I also found this essential oils place, too. So I am going to jump in there.

3:06:17BubblemanWell, thanks for coming by there, both Todd and Tony. You guys have a good day. Enjoy a hemorrhoid-free day.

3:06:25TonyYeah, absolutely. And, you know, power to you, Horatio. I think you're doing amazing fucking things. And... Hopefully, one day soon, when I can come up for Brett here in the next month or so, I can finally get with you and do some shit together, you know?

3:06:47HoratioIt's been a long road. Every day I'm like, I don't understand. How long can you go without sleep? I think that's your real superpower. Thank you for watching.

3:07:16HoratioIt's for your mother who's used her hands in nursing for years. I find out you can't lift the lady in her wheelchair. She's like, yeah, I'm having a hip checker. My hand is turning into a claw. I'm like, oh, I can't believe I didn't send my mother the transdermals. I should go to hell. So yeah, the pressure grows, but that just means that other circumstances will come together to make it happen for everyone who has prayers.

3:07:44TonyAbsolutely. Alright, sorry I chimed in and chiming out, but I wanted to get into the combo.

3:07:53BubblemanThat was like an hour long, dude. Thanks for coming by.

3:07:57TonyYeah, is that Mark playing guitar back there?

3:07:59BubblemanYeah, Mark's jamming out. It's Jerry's, the anniversary of Jerry Garcia's passing.

3:08:04TonyYeah, can I hear a little bit of what Mark's playing before I go? He's such a good guitar player.

3:08:09SpeakerYeah.

3:08:29SpeakerThat's what love will do for you. That's what love will make you do. No matter how hard I fight it, baby, I'm still in love with you.

3:09:00TonyIt's always good on that church, isn't it?

3:09:06SpeakerNo matter how hard I fight it, baby, I'm still in love with you.

3:09:38JeffThank you.

3:10:00SpeakerThank you.

3:10:33SpeakerThere you go.

3:10:40BubblemanThanks, Mark. That was sweet. I was posting up the full screen of Rosen in the background while you were jamming out. I know Tony enjoyed it from the car.

3:10:50NickAll right. Thanks, man.

3:10:52BubblemanWas it too loud?

3:10:54TonyNo. No. No, you sound really good. Not only can you play guitar, you sounded really good, man. So, fucking A, dude. Dude, there you are, Tony. Yeah.

3:11:10NickFlamin' on Garcia.

3:11:11BubblemanYeah.

3:11:14JeffYeah. What's up?

3:11:19BubblemanAll right, I'll see you guys. Take it easy, guys. All right, see you.

3:11:25NickSee you, Tony. Yeah, again, we were talking about the influence of the Grateful Dead and, you know, there's that whole Chemdog story, right? How about the seeds came out from Colorado through a Grateful Dead concert that got into G's hands and became the lineage of the Chemdog line and ultimately the Sour Diesel that was traded through a Grateful Dead show. California Dog, man. We talked about this before, Mark.

3:11:56NickGrateful Dead was like one of those concerts where you could freely consume cannabis in the same venue where if you were seeing a concert a week earlier and it was a different artist, you weren't able to consume. So I think the Grateful Dead kind of acclimated most concert venues to these kids like to smoke weed when they watch this music, so let them go.

3:12:18BubblemanAnd trip halls.

3:12:21NickYeah, absolutely, that too.

3:12:28NickYes, that's why we celebrate Jerry Garcia. Absolutely. The fact that you should be creative in your life and not just do what the rules say. That was basically the mantra for the Grateful Dead is you can't reproduce that at all, which is that they really did something that... There were no rules too. They became the poster children for the Summer of Love and Hate Ashbury and everyone knows that that scene got way too heavy, way too quick.

3:13:02NickToo many freaks moved in and the whole scene collapsed but underneath it all was their music and that's what lasted all these years and it's hard to believe that 20 years ago the guy who left this planet that we're still talking and playing his music and It's a big part of my life. I listen to the Grateful Dead every day of my life. It's not a day go by that I don't listen to Jerry Garcia's music.

3:13:27BubblemanIt's my secret. I was listening to a good Terrapin yesterday from a 77 Winterland show.

3:13:34NickGreat shows, yeah. Great shows. I mean, it's 77. Mark, there's a book out specifically about 1977 and what a landmark year that was. I think it was the pinnacle year for the band.

3:13:47BubblemanI hope they pay homage to 73 and 71 as well.

3:13:50NickYeah, I mean all those years were formative. I mean you couldn't have had a 77 until you had a 74 and you couldn't have had a 74 until you had a 71 and you couldn't have had a 71 until you had a 69. That's what's great about the band's rich musical history is that it's all in the vault available for us to Listen to and the great thing about Fish is Fish is still happening and it's happening right in front of our eyes and we're able to witness this history of this band that continues to move on.

3:14:23NickThey just killed it the other night at Blossom in... In Ohio, and they did a great show last night at Alpine Valley and another good show on tap tonight.

3:14:33BubblemanI think it was at Alpine Valley maybe where the, or I'm not sure, but Mike and Trey recently went sort of head to head and they were really going back and forth and doing this sort of fun thing that I heard.

3:14:44NickYeah, they've been doing that a lot lately, Mark. Like during the You Enjoy Myself Jam, they've been doing that and that's, yeah, really, really cool how they kind of face off with each other like that. That's

3:14:56JeffThey're having fun.

3:15:01BubblemanOh, I froze there for a second.

3:15:06BubblemanThere we go, I'm back. So what's going on with you, Phil? Hopefully you didn't suffer from a headache this morning.

3:15:14SpeakerYeah, I'm actually just pulling myself out of a bit of a daze. Probably about 9 o'clock this morning I got a cluster that just lasted for God knows how long, but I made a point of ingesting so much cannabinoids this week that I could be on house church at least before noon. I tried so hard this week to make sure I was ready. Consuming cannabinoids.

3:15:41BubblemanGlad you made it in. We stayed around long enough today for you to make it in. Last week was a short one.

3:15:48SpeakerIt was quite short last week. I caught on just... Just as you guys were getting off, I was able to come out of my room. So how have you been, buddy?

3:15:59BubblemanI've been pretty darn good. You know, I've been pressing up the rosin, doing that. It's been quite fun having these presses here. I've got another review video to do. You know, I posted a rosin video last week, literally a week ago today, and at five days it had almost 12,000 views on it. And I thought, you know what, holy shit, I haven't been doing videos lately. People are hungry for like hash videos and extract videos.

3:16:23BubblemanSo I'm going to do a bunch of bubble hash videos here in the near future and then once it becomes fall I'll start doing dry sift videos again and really sort of start tuning people up on ways to improve their solventless quiver.

3:16:46SpeakerIf you will. We should get back to making some bubble in the great outdoors. That was quite an experience.

3:16:53BubblemanWell I'd love to go to the ice cave up in Pemberton on sleds. I still have that idea that I want to go do a really amazing out in the back country making hash in nature. With like, maybe, you know, bring a group of sort of young Yahoo pros, there's so many of them up in Whistler, just to do some hocks and backflips off the cliffs to have the excitement aspect of it.

3:17:15BubblemanGet a little GoPro footage up and down, you know, on the way up and on the way down, and then of course the majority of the footage would be discovering the ice cave, shaving the ice off the ice cave, and then making water hash there in the ice cave that's like literally hundreds of thousands, if not a freaking million years old. It's I think it would be a pretty epic video.

3:17:38BubblemanI've been wanting to do it for almost three years now.

3:17:41SpeakerWell, we talked about it the last time you were up when we were up in Whistler with Johnny B. Every time you came up, you're like, we've got to get in the backcountry with these dope boys. We've got to make hash in the backcountry. We've got to do this. I know.

3:17:53BubblemanYeah, the dope guys would be fine. They're gnarly. They do a bunch of crazy shit. Just need to catch a couple of good clips. Of some big cliff jumps, you know, get fucking, what's his name there?

3:18:06SpeakerEman Anderson.

3:18:08BubblemanWhat's that?

3:18:09SpeakerEman Anderson, Andrew Jeeves, any of those guys.

3:18:11BubblemanJeeves, Jeeves, that's who I was thinking of.

3:18:13SpeakerTattoos on the face, yeah.

3:18:15BubblemanI got a photo of him hucking a beautiful like 30 footer up in Braylorn one year. And he's just got this beautiful snow trail behind him. He's hucking full speed off of this thing and at the top of the, of the, The roundabout, the sort of top of the knuckle is a skier standing there because he had been waiting to hit this jump but he stood there for too long so Jeeves just like plowed through him and hucked off this cliff.

3:18:40BubblemanIt was really quite an awesome moment and I have it solidified in memory by it's printed and hangs on my wall in my house.

3:18:49SpeakerA few years ago, well probably about six years ago, I watched Devin Walsh do the Hurley Gap.

3:18:55BubblemanOh my God.

3:18:56SpeakerYeah.

3:18:57BubblemanThat's awesome. I would have loved to have been there with my camera, dude.

3:19:00SpeakerIt was an accident. We were up like I was doubling with a buddy going up to go do double power runs and we see the entire crew there and we're like, is that Devin? And they were setting up the gap and yeah, Matt Belzeal and Devin Walsh hit the gap that year. I think there was a couple of 1080s that went down over that thing.

3:19:22BubblemanYeah, I mean, I'd love for a beautiful winter to happen and be able to do a lot more videos, at least fun videos, hash making videos and NAR videos up in Whistler and Pemberton and the surrounding back country because it's so inspirational and to me it sort of really shows that sort of healthy lifestyle of what you can be doing if you want to, if you choose to.

3:19:47BubblemanAnd I was blown away by how beautiful it was out there. It was just... Just blew me away the first time I really got into the backcountry and the vibes that you feel with the people that are there and how it's like it's sort of unsaid or even said that at any time we can all perish and we will need to save each other's lives. And that sort of solidifies an even more than sort of friendship experience where you get this sort of like I'm the person that will save your life and you're the person that will save my life.

3:20:16BubblemanIt becomes pretty heavy.

3:20:19SpeakerIt does. I was living in Windsor for almost 10 years and spent a lot of time in Argentina in the back country with a lot of different people and it solidifies friendships and bonds that you have forever. You're trusting your life in someone's hands. Like I want to go home to my girlfriend, you have to make sure that I can go do that.

3:20:35BubblemanYeah, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I kind of, you know, back in the day, When I started seeing it and I started realizing that, yeah, you know, sure you'll see people consume a beer here or there, but for the most part what I noticed was people were consuming cannabis in the backcountry and the guys that were about to go hawk a big cliff, they were like puffing a joint or hitting a vape pen.

3:20:57BubblemanAnd all of a sudden I was just like, oh, this is something that the sponsors don't want you to see, but I would love to showcase a cannabis-based video that shows how cannabis is used for these particularly incredible athletes. You know, I always thought of the funny meme with Michael Phelps that said, winners or losers don't smoke cannabis, champions do. And it shows like Michael Phelps with like 14 gold medals around his neck.

3:21:24BubblemanOf course, when he got caught with the photo of him puffing on the Ruhr, which Martin from Ruhr was super happy about that. He said, man, that would have cost me like about $12 million. And in the end it cost Michael Phelps about $50 million.

3:21:40SpeakerReally? He ended up having to pay up for that one.

3:21:42BubblemanWell no, he lost sponsors like Kellogg's and other big sponsors. I don't know if it was $50 million, but someone will Google it. You know what, don't even Google it. Someone's going to fucking tell me that I was wrong in about three seconds in the chat and they'll tell me exactly how much money he lost in his sponsorships.

3:22:00SpeakerWell, Mark, if it wasn't for cannabis and using it the way I do and have, I wouldn't have been able to snowboard coach in Argentina. I wouldn't have been able to snowboard all those years in Whistler doing all those backcountry days. 120 days on the mountain plus, I have cluster migraines. I have semi-orbital hermicrania. It feels like a drill going through my fucking eyeball about 10 or 15 times a day.

3:22:24SpeakerSo if it wasn't for cannabis, I wouldn't be able to move. I wouldn't be able to get out of my space every day. So I'm thankful that I'm able to use cannabis in the backcountry, in a vape pen, in a little joint in the gondola to keep me going and to keep things going for everyone. Cannabis is the way that we get up there every day. It would be nice for you to showcase that in great detail.

3:22:51BubblemanAbsolutely, dude. I love the idea that one day it'll have to happen if we ever get another winter up here.

3:22:58SpeakerDon't say that. It's a pretty dry summer, man. The Capilano is not looking so good.

3:23:09BubblemanYeah, I know. It's rough. Where I live, we're actually starting to pull a California and be on water reserves and be like, Don't use too much water. We get 100% of our water from rain and from the melting snow in the mountains behind me. And there's no more snow in the mountains. So the water's gone down real low. And I mean, you know what? This is a standard thing.

3:23:31BubblemanPeople want to trip out about it all the time. It's like if you lived in a place like Africa, you would see places that went from the most luscious, growth-filled places on Earth to literally a Sahara desert. Everything dies. Everything crawls into the ground. Everything leaves. And then eventually the rains come and they bring everything back. So I think it's important that sometimes we realize that we're on this sort of cyclical path, not on this linear path.

3:23:57BubblemanI think that's the illusion of time, which works out well for the illusion of wage. But it's definitely a cyclical path that we're on more so than a linear one. At least that's what mushrooms told me when I was tripping balls at a fish concert.

3:24:18SpeakerWe'll do that to you.

3:24:19BubblemanYeah. I had the most incredible experience at a fish show in Bangor, Maine in 1994, which one of the songs from that night ended up on the live disc, which was called A Live One. It's a double disc. And the tweezer, I think it's 30 some odd minutes long, it was from 1994, Bangor, Maine, which was like a show that if you were on fish tour at the time, And you did like the Glenn's Fall show for the Halloween show where Fish played the White Album and you were in Massachusetts for that show and you were doing that East Coast tour.

3:24:54BubblemanA lot of people skipped Bangor. It was literally in like a high school and the high school gymnasium with bleachers that like pulled out and like pushed in. And a lot of people weren't there. It was small, small. And someone ended up trading me. I had some extra tickets for a gram of mushrooms. So I ate this gram of mushrooms. And lo and behold, I mean, it was truly the experience where dose did not matter.

3:25:18BubblemanAt first, when I started tripping so hard, I was like, these guys must have soaked this shit in LSD. Wrongest mushrooms I've ever taken in my life. And how it started was I was in line to go into the show, and it was fine. Everything was good. It started getting a little intense. And all of a sudden, it was kind of like everyone's conversation changed. Sort of warping into this metallic sound of a giant spaceship either taking off or landing.

3:25:44BubblemanI couldn't really put my finger on that, but by the time, before I knew it, it was so high, I was one person away from being searched by the guy who was letting us in, and right beside him were all these Bangor State Trooper guys sitting on the wall looking at everyone getting searched. I was so high, but I could make this out, and I realized I had quite a bit of things on me, like, Like I had weed and I had some hash.

3:26:12BubblemanMight have even had a couple more grams of those mushrooms. I only took one of them, thank God. And I've eaten like quarters of mushrooms. Anyway, I grabbed all this stuff really quickly and jammed it in my sock. And I felt so confident. I was like, yeah, man, you did that shit right on. And I walked up. The guy patted me down and searched me. The cops were looking at me like I was nuts.

3:26:31BubblemanThey had this weird look on their face. And I remember walking by the cops and looking at them like, what the fuck are they looking at? And then looking down and seeing all my plastic bags sticking up out of my sock with my pants like sort of sitting on top of the plastic bags. And they were just like looking at me like, is this fucking guy for real?

3:26:54BubblemanThey did not stop me and I walked in and I enjoyed the show and absolutely I saw that tweezer that is immortalized in the double album. I think more immortal than that was the double white album that Phish played for 94. Anyone a fan of the Beatles or Phish, definitely check out that show. You can watch a few shitty videos that are on YouTube, but you can download it in very near soundboard quality.

3:27:19BubblemanAnd it's 1994, October 31st, Glens Falls, New York. Wow, what a show.

3:27:28NickYeah, great, great shows. That Bangers show was great, Mark. Was that your first show? Did you say that right?

3:27:35BubblemanNo, I saw it the year prior in 93, the year that Baby Gramps opened up for them at the Commodore Ballroom in Vancouver. That was my first fish show. I was so excited about it, I was like, I've got to go see a bunch more. So I bought a bunch of the 94 fall tour shows and went and saw all those. So good back in that early age era.

3:27:57BubblemanThere it is, yeah. Revisiting Bangor. Nice. Yeah, I could write an article about that. Let me tell you. Holy shiot.

3:28:08NickYeah, that was just such a great era in the band's history. They were on the road. They were just starting to get to where they were playing bigger arenas. And their creative, in their album history, one of their most creative periods, like right around Rift and Hoist, Those are just, you know, some of the best material of that era, and yeah, the band was on fire. They were playing so well.

3:28:36NickIt was just so great to see them achieve that level of success.

3:28:41BubblemanI love that naturally when a band like the Dead or Fish or even these bands like the Allman Brothers and String Cheese, all these different sort of jam bands that came up out of that Grateful Dead era grew up out of that evolution, they really promote this sort of You know, we call it Lot, or Shakedown Street, or, you know, there's various names for it, but it really produces this incredible sort of like, okay, what do you have?

3:29:06BubblemanYou want to trade, you want to barter, and cannabis and hash has always been really high up on the barter list of these incredible jam bands. There's no sort of displacing it. They're as connected to the jam band scene as cannabis is connected to Reggae music. I'm surprised more jam bands don't pay homage to what's going on out in their lots and pay homage to how much cannabis and the psychedelics are this sort of golden ticket on the lot.

3:29:39BubblemanWhen you have the quality, you can literally get anything that you want on the lot.

3:29:45NickWell, certainly law enforcement is paying attention to that because there's been a couple undercover busts both at the Alpine Where they're at now and also at, in Boston, in Ohio. And these are guys posing as concert goers, you know, with tie-dyes or leather jackets or whatever, toasting someone. And when someone raises a beer and toasts them on a car going by, he signals his buddy, hey, open container, that whole car gets pulled over and searched.

3:30:21NickSo it's people who are stupid who are realizing that, you know, you can't be, you've got to keep your guard up. You never know who these people may be that you don't know.

3:30:32BubblemanOh my God, I can remember back in 95 in places like Missoula, Montana or Spokane, Washington where the cops were around us in the buildings that looked down on the parking lot with walkie-talkies and they were literally talking to dudes down on the lot with headsets like telling the new guy to Like jump on it was seriously scary, but you know, you got to see a utopian world one day where these substances become more normalized that these wonderful flea markets that will erupt around certain bands.

3:31:03BubblemanI mean, that's a huge thing. Can you imagine if it was legal and you were allowed to bring your best and you were allowed to sort of set up just for the evening at this little event and it wasn't a nutraceutical or pharmaceutical grade, anything that you were selling, you were just bartering and trading. You know, cannabis, cannabis products, psychedelics, your grilled cheese sandwiches, your veggie burritos, all the hilarious things that are on lot that just seemed to pop up to create a life for people that were wanting to stay on tour, to be able to pay bills, to be able to buy gas and pay for insurance and get tickets.

3:31:37BubblemanYou got these people just running these little sort of mini flea markets and it's, I sure always appreciated it on tour.

3:31:52NickYeah, well, again, it's amazing that they're actually using law enforcement dollars now to actually set up sting operations coordinated between the drug enforcement agency and the local law enforcement agencies to follow jam bands around and intentionally pull people over, which is profiling, and you have to know what your rights are and make sure that, again, you don't consent your vehicle to a...

3:32:22NickDo anything stupid to search your vehicle or else you're just asking for trouble.

3:32:32BubblemanRight. You cut out a little bit there, but I understood what you were saying, basically talking about, you know, making sure you don't give them consent to search your vehicle. Being very careful when you go into these concert venues. It's very good, although we're still, because if you're still in a prohibition state, you know, Use something like a med-tainer or some type of an air-proof thing. Don't be like burning in your car on the way into the venue.

3:32:55BubblemanThese things just can cause you unnecessary problems and have your herb, your medicine taken away before you... I mean, the worst thing possible is not being able to enjoy your herb at the concert you were on your way to.

3:33:10BubblemanBrutal.

3:33:20HoratioCan I still smoke inside like real big concerts or is that, am I just out of the loop? Can I still go to like, what's it called, it's like the Sky Dome, like can you go to like the Rogers Center, there's no smoking in there.

3:33:31BubblemanWell no, it depends on where you are Horatio, like sometimes, and Vancouver now is unique in the sense that Vancouver has always been pretty amazing with allowing people to smoke cannabis at venues. I mean, anytime you've ever seen Ben Harper perform his song Burn One Down here in Vancouver, Whether it was at an indoor or an outdoor show, the amount of cannabis that got lit was always incredible.

3:33:55BubblemanThen we became a non-smoking city. So then it was kind of like which people at which venue. It's a crapshoot now. You can get venues where you're like, I puffed the whole time and it was no problem. I literally remember setting up coals and dabbing oil at a venue like in the 90s, like watching Medesky, Martin & Wood, and literally like smoking off of coals at the venue.

3:34:20NickI think it really depends on the venue. I've been in small little clubs in New Orleans where you can't get anything in through a body search, but when you go inside the venue, it smells. You know that people in there are smoking weed, no question about it. There are other larger venues, like when you're at the Uh, uh, Soldier Field where we were for the Grateful Dead 50 reunion, I mean, it was just a haze of smoke wherever you were.

3:34:57NickPeople were just lighting up left and right with no intervention from security or police whatsoever. Now that said, if you tried to walk through security with a quarter pound of weed, They're going to search you and take that away from you. So I saw people bring pretty big pieces of glass inside the Chicago thing, and I've seen people who just had regular nice cameras get turned away saying you can't bring the camera in.

3:35:28NickSo it depends on what security guard you go through. It depends on a lot of things, what you can get inside the venue.

3:35:34BubblemanWell, and a good trick for that, Mark, especially at a concert like the Grateful Dead when you're seeing beautiful pieces, the Grateful Dead allow tapers, and tapers have the ability to go through a special entrance with equipment, and that equipment, believe it or not, I've seen hide incredible things. Yeah. They don't look the same as the dudes that are, it's like you're the tapers. You're kind of like the high end audience.

3:35:59BubblemanYou're going to be the quietest. You're not going to cause any problems. You're just going to go and sit in your little spot and be OCD and hope that everyone around you shuts the fuck up while the concert's on. That's the taper. And so we were always able to bring incredible shit in when we were taping the show.

3:36:16NickThat's totally true. Absolutely. Yep. Good stuff in.

3:36:20BubblemanI bought my first backboard in the 90s, and man, I never look back. I love taping shows.

3:36:25NickIt was supposed to be NFL, National Football League rules, meaning that the only backpack that you could bring in is something that's totally transparent. They didn't want to go through backpacks, but they wanted to be able to look inside a backpack. So the initial guidance that was given was if you wanted to bring in John Mayer,

3:37:13NickOn guitar, instead of Trey, and instead of Phil, Oteel Burnbridge from Aquarium Rescue Unit and Allman Brothers fame. Oh, yeah. Filling in for Phil, because Phil and Friends is actually playing at the cap, Mark. They're playing across town in Portchester, New York. Oh, wow. Yeah, so it was a conflict. They couldn't do it, I guess, with Phil.

3:37:37BubblemanI like the Burnbridge brothers. They're killer musicians.

3:37:42NickAbsolutely. Oteel Brembridge is one of the badass, most badass bass players on the planet, man. He could play the bass and scat along with it like no other, man. He's an incredible musician.

3:37:55BubblemanYeah, and coffee's no slouch either. Serious flute and keyboard player. From Tedeschi Trucks, the Tedeschi Trucks band.

3:38:09BubblemanMm-hmm. Well, it's time for another dab, I think, and then I might get Mark to play us a tune and call it a day on Hash Church. That was a great church. Tons of great information. I think we paid homage to Jerry the best that we could. And, yeah, I'm definitely down for hitting something here. I guess some of this fresh rosin I just pressed out.

3:38:38BubblemanThat's what I'm saying.

3:38:43NickAll right, so we'll do one more Garcia tune. Are people liking this on the chat room, Mark? Do they like the Garcia stuff? They all left the minute you started playing.

3:38:53SpeakerNo, of course they're not.

3:39:00NickAll right, we'll just do one more. Let's see.

3:39:07BubblemanRaise them if you've got them. All right.

3:39:11SpeakerWith the cold of sunshine And my tunes were played On a farm on the strong Would you hear my voice Come through the music Would you hold it near

3:39:37NickAs it were, you know, it's a hand-me-down.

3:39:44SpeakerThe thoughts I've broken, perhaps they're better left outside. I don't know. Don't really care.

3:40:06SpeakerLet there be songs to fill the air. Fable, evil, still war hunter. Where there is no fable tossed, fall near to the low. Reach out your hand. If your cup be empty, if your cup is full, may it be a good thing to let me know. There is a fountain, that was not me.

3:41:02SpeakerI'm a hairy man, there is a road. No steeper highway between the dawn and the dark of night. And if you go, no one may follow.

3:41:30SpeakerThat's for your steps alone. River here, still water. Where there is no pebble tossed, all we are to know is your choice. To leave must follow. But if you fall, you fall alone. If you should stand, then who's to guide you?

3:42:17NickIf I do the way, I will take you home.

3:42:30SpeakerLa, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.

3:42:59BubblemanGive thanks, everybody. Thanks for watching Hash Church. RIP, Jerry. We love you. We'll see you all next week. Bless it.