D-Nail Rosin Press, Moisture Content and Steam Extraction Theory

0:01BubblemanWell, hello everybody and welcome to Hash Church episode 45. Yep, we've done 45 episodes in a row and I'm happy to say there is no end in sight. It looks like we're going to continue on doing this for you guys as long as you guys enjoy it. Oh no, sorry to hear it, yeah. ATN just hit me up and said he's got the flu, so I think we're going to send out the most positive healing vibes that we can to ATN this morning.

0:34BubblemanWe're definitely going to miss you, buddy. It is going to be a short hash church, but you will be missed, my friend, as you are always well received on the church. Anyway, today I've got a few things going on. It is a... Sorry about that. My camera went a little blurry. It is a camping trip for me today, so I'm actually taking my family camping, so Hash Church is going to be a fairly short and quiet one.

1:02BubblemanMaybe I can do a couple of hours, I'm hoping at least, and I've got a couple of little things that I want to show you today. I've actually, oh, someone's on the way to sauna. No Soma today either. That's okay. Thanks for giving us the shot, Soma. I think I was going to actually go through today and show you guys this new D-nail press that I got.

1:25BubblemanI'll probably wait for a few more people to come into the room. It is very early. Etienne, who is my main guy that usually comes in first, he's got the flu and he's sick, so he's not going to be able to...

1:42BubblemanNot going to be able to make it in today, but we do have 162 people, 174 people watching right now from probably all around the world. And I guess we might as well start off with a bowl. I've got some fine flour rosin that I made here from some sweet skunk, some herb. And actually, I came across a little trick yesterday, which I am going to share with you guys today.

2:04BubblemanLike I said, I'll probably wait until more people come in, and there's actually a dialogue. More people meaning... Anyone at this point because I'm just alone in the hash church, but that's okay. We'll make it happen here. I'm sure we're going to get a couple more visitors in sooner than later. And in the meantime, I'm just going to puff a bowl. Send out that link to Mr. Nick just in case he missed that.

2:28BubblemanAlways good to get everything organized. I hope you guys are all doing good and I hope you guys had a great week. I think that we're going to, we're going to have some good information today to share. It's just a hashtag is never planned. I just go by the seat of my pants and hope that each week the people that are a part of it will, you know, bring something new, bring something interesting.

2:51BubblemanAnd yeah, with 243 people in the room, I think it's time for a nice little sweet skunk rosin dab. This is flower rosin. And I made from this new little technique that I kind of learned. Everything's a new technique. Every time you do something different, it's a new technique. But I will say that this was passed on to me by the oil slick guys. And they were rolling up the material.

3:19BubblemanThey were rolling up herb. In a screen, kind of like a joint, almost in a tube. And then I think they even, they weren't using a screen, they were using the oil sheet, slick sheet. And so they were rolling it up into tubes so nothing could come up the sides, although I think they might have poked a few holes, sealed up the ends, and then everything was really coming out these holes that they had poked.

3:42BubblemanI basically grabbed the same idea except I used a screen and I wrapped this screen up like a joint. I put it in my D-nail press yesterday and I pressed it and I was quite surprised how much I was able to return from basically just broken up bits of cannabis. Let's have a hit, guys. And as Rob Clark would say, we are blowing smoke towards the Vatican.

4:08BubblemanIt is Sunday. D-nails turned up. I'm at about a 670 degree temperature. Let's dab it up, people.

4:30BubblemanOh, yeah. Fucking tasty, delicious.

4:40BubblemanRight on, Jeff Hemp. Glad you are enjoying the information. I'm going to get this link sent out just a few more times just to make sure that everyone's gotten it. Just to make sure. It's always a little bit easier to have a hash church with people present in the room. What do you guys say? Would you like some visitors today? You know what? I'm good to go.

5:08BubblemanI'm going to start doing a little demo. I've got the whole room to myself. Why wouldn't I do a demo? Why don't we do a little rosin demo? I think, I think, I think that's what we're going to do, yeah? All right, here we go. So, there's the rosin press.

5:30BubblemanGet the pipe kind of out of the way. There we go. Rosin pressing. 293 viewers, and I think it's time to make a little bit of rosin. There's that eighth wonder from Horatio. Little eighth wonder in the house. Yep, yep, yep.

5:53BubblemanMmm, wow, nice taste on that, really, so what I think you're looking at here, and I'm going to let Horatio tell you guys for sure because I'm not 100%, he gave it to me so quick yesterday, but what I believe it is, is it's nice sift that he then took and made rosin, and then he added terpenes while he was making the rosin, or I don't know when he added the terpenes, but...

6:17BubblemanThat's what he did. So we're definitely going to hit that later while you can, when you smell it and there's that excess of terpenes in it, you really feel those terpenes go into, you know what? I'm sure you could melt this material, Adam, if you heated it up too hot.

6:31ToddWe're going to actually first turn the D now on.

6:34BubblemanYou can see how easy it is to turn on. I've got a switch on here. I've got a switch on here. And each one of these is in itself a D-nail, right? You have a PDI or PID up in here that's basically heat controlling these plates. And we're going to heat up to about... I find with the herb, it's definitely more helpful to heat it up a little bit more.

6:56BubblemanI was pressing about 200 degrees Fahrenheit with the bubble, and I was able to get good returns and use more pressure and get a little bit more But with the herb, I found that the lower temperatures I went, it was really, really, really coming out very small amounts and very slow. And when I finally did what I'm about to do here for you guys today, it worked very well.

7:20BubblemanAnd in fact, here's one of my pressed out patties of the herb. So you can see that I just put a bunch in there. I rolled it up like a joint. I sealed the ends. I put parchment on either side and bam. So any questions you guys got, let me know. This press is a five by five. The plates are five inches. Thank you for joining us.

8:10BubblemanYeah, great little unit so far. Definitely got some decent amount of pressure. You can see here.

8:21BubblemanSo I don't close it completely when I turn it on, but I do like just shut it. So it's not closed, but it's shut. And what that's going to do is that's going to allow me to heat it up quicker for those plates to heat up off one another. The plates are pretty thick, dude. Like, I mean, I haven't pulled them out, but they're very thick plates.

8:43BubblemanThey're definitely not thin. Yeah, you can check out Google for most of these. The questions or the answers that I don't know, you can definitely check out D-Nail, but the questions that I do know the answers to, of course, I will just tell you guys. So, should we start off with hash or weed? It seems like we should start off with weed. Yeah, it is only $350.

9:02BubblemanPre-order.

9:06BubblemanIt's about 1,500 pounds of pressure for this small one. Yep. So I guess what we should do is grab a little of this herb that I have here. There we go. We've got some sweet skunk here. And so I went and saw Kabaka Pyramid the other day. My good buddies were in from Jamaica, Abishay, and Kamal, and Kabaka, and all those guys, great dudes. I went and saw them, and I brought my herb as a gift because I know, you know, these guys are Jamaican.

9:37BubblemanThey smoke a lot of herb. They're on a tour. It could be getting very expensive to purchase herb all over. So I brought some nice herbs just to share with them, and they really went through it quite something, and... It turned it all into powder and I was a little bit like, oh damn, like all I really do is press a bud. I love the little buds and I was pressing them and then collecting the dabs on the outside.

10:00BubblemanBut I'll tell you, once I did this, I'm so much less likely to want to go back. Actually, this was the one I was going to wrap up. Here we go. I was sort of surprised at how easy and quick it cleaned off. I thought it was going to maybe make more of a mess than the actual... And the actual hash does. So this is just really like ends of the bag of the sweet skunk here.

10:25BubblemanIt's definitely still crystal-y and it was grown by me. I grew it organically and basically fed it only one time in its life. And other than that, it received water the entire time. So here we go. We're going to press this up. You can see it's not huge by any means. Right? You got that?

10:49BubblemanOkie dokie. So what I've been doing with the parchment, which I kind of like, is I cut a piece that's oversized, fits bigger than the press so I can hold it and have a little handle to get it put in there. And then I just slap this down, you know, kind of in the middle, not too towards the edge. I really like when the pressing screens get a little bit resiny and dirty because then, A, I can push them together and they close.

11:12BubblemanAnd when I put them in here and give them just that little bit of press, it holds it all together real nice. Wow. I guess we'll open that up and let that temperature drop a little bit. We had temperatures going a little hot. Welcome, Todd, this morning. How are you doing, my friend?

11:27ToddGood morning, brother. How are you?

11:30BubblemanI'm doing good. I feel bad for Etienne.

11:33SpeakerYeah, me too, actually. He's been really, really, really crappy.

11:36BubblemanWell, here's the thing. Do you notice that as we get older that getting like the flu or a little bit sick sort of becomes a little more intense?

11:47SpeakerYeah, I think in many ways, I mean, people listening though, you know, I don't want to sound like such a hemp seed advocate, but truth be told, essential fatty acids, you know, even more than, you know, I advocate people becoming a vegetarian, I advocate people start trying to get EFAs into their diet because You know, I read that great book by the Canadian doctor, you know, eh?

12:11SpeakerDr. Udo Erasmus, and it was fats that heal, fats that kill. And he has a whole chapter in it about hemp seed oil and how important these unsaturated fats are to our diet and how they build up on basically our cellular level. So if we actually start consuming EFAs, hemp seed oil, hemp nut, hemp seed oil, or dehulled hemp seed, or even hemp seed, We start really richening our body with the stuff that we need to defend ourselves in a situation like that.

12:40SpeakerSo people that are getting older, I recommend even more than anything to start getting EFAs, rich EFAs into their system. I honestly never get sick myself anymore. But I think a lot of it is because of hemp seed rich proteins and vitamins and everything. Yep.

12:59BubblemanYeah, it's a huge thing. That, you know, along with eating some phytocannabinoids, and it's amazing how many people in the cannabis industry that I ask, do you consume phytocannabinoids orally, and do you consume, you know, these essential amino acids, the fatty acids, and so many times they're like, no. No, no, no.

13:19SpeakerWell, you know what's funny is I've been trying to get people that are into the oil that we smoke into the oil that we can eat. And, you know, because, you know, cannabis is, I can't wait to talk about that thing. So are you, you know, screw this, screw health. Let's talk about your D-nail crest because that is cool as shit. Why does it have heating elements on both sides in stereo?

13:39SpeakerWell, top and bottom.

13:42BubblemanWhen we first, yeah, it does have top and bottom heated elements. And when we first spoke about this with Soil Grown, the original Bud Squisher, as we call him, he was mentioning, because I asked him, I said, hey, how would it go if one of the plates was cooler and one of the plates was warmer? And he was like, well, actually, it really doesn't work that well at all.

14:04BubblemanIt's like a normal t-shirt press. You need to modify it so you can get both plates heated up. And we're about to make some right now. I just wrapped herb into this pressing screen. So this is full of cake from Bud's. And we're going to put that in the press and see what we can do with something that most people probably just wouldn't even consider as a thing.

14:29BubblemanAnd I'll do about a 10-second press.

14:32SpeakerIt's a lot easier than us squishing shit at the museum with a frigging hair straightener.

14:38BubblemanOh, my God. Are you kidding, bro?

14:40SpeakerI can't wait to see what you get. How fresh is the bud that you just squished?

14:46BubblemanIt's very, very dry and it's very, very old. That was like maybe a half a gram.

14:53SpeakerLet me say that's a bummer on both. One of the things that I realized when Tony was here, we were squishing buds was humidity is your friend and to a degree. You don't want wet.

15:05BubblemanThere's still some moisture. It's not like powder dry, but it's definitely very dry. But I literally just got two dabs out of nothing, out of like shake. And this is a big piece of parchment. So you can see that these are long strips, much more than what we were getting off a single bud. Hey, welcome Horatio.

15:28SpeakerGood morning, Horatio. We need macro web cameras.

15:32BubblemanYes, I want to get on that dude for sure because when you take a picture of this stuff, it is insanely fucking photogenic. Insanely photogenic.

15:44SpeakerWell, Mark, you're one of my favorite photographers regardless, but yeah. You and Mr. X at Strain Hunters. I love Oscar's photos. Oh, wow, look at that.

15:59BubblemanI love both your guys' photos, and I've got to give it up to Mr. Dynasty, who's also killing the game lately with his macro photographs. He does what you do. He stacks images, but I'm telling you, the program that he's using is very easy and very, like, it doesn't really create that look that I get when I see a lot of these stacking programs. They create this halo effect that to me, and it might only be me because I'm so used to looking at what it normally looks like, It looks like not real, whereas this guy recently started stacking images.

16:34BubblemanNow, he's not stacking 100 of them at a time or anything, but like 10 or 15, and I have to give it up and say that they are some of the nicest macro photographs that I've seen. I mean, of course, beer goggles.

16:45ToddWhat's his Instagram? Maybe Dynasty Genetics.

16:49BubblemanI'll link you the next time I see one of his photos. He posts photos all the time. He's a killer. He's taking it to the next level, and it's great to see. Mr. Stain says he can't see, and I'm not sure what he's saying he can't see, but there's that little... Yeah, that's great.

17:08BubblemanThat's so bad. How was the event, Horatio? Did you take home a prize yesterday?

17:14SpeakerYeah, I got one of those subliminators now so we can do the steam rips. I just don't have a bong big enough to support it. I pulled it out and I'm like, hey, wait a minute, these are all oil rigs. This thing is twice the size of my oil rigs. So I have to go make a deal at the local bong shop and hook up with one of those gigantic things you hold.

17:35SpeakerBut it should be fun for, you know, activating all this herb that I normally can't mess with. It was a good event. I think using Mark Emery's place is starting to become the norm, and it's got a good size for small venues. It's the closest thing to our micro little secret sesh, but it's not really public. But yeah, the Canadian Concentrate opened there in their sixth round, so it's pretty much been a dry year, so them doing stuff for the community has been a big Yeah, I like his photos, Mark, a lot.

18:11SpeakerDude!

18:40SpeakerA lot of them are not layered though, bro, to be honest with you. I'm looking at a lot of them. A lot of these are not layered photos. Although the flying stuff is obviously layered.

18:49BubblemanYou should talk to them because you may very well eat their photos. Huh? You should talk to him because they don't look layered, but I'm telling you, most of his photos are combined, stacked, layered, whatever you want to call it, images. I can tell which ones are. Because I've used the program a few times. He sent me the one he was using, and I used it just once, and I was like, whoa, like, that is...

19:15SpeakerIt's only really two. It's only Helicon Focus or Photoshop. It's the only two really good stacking programs. There's another one called Combined, but it's really, it's not that good.

19:28BubblemanI used Helicon a couple of years ago when the guy from 91, I can't remember his name now, but he did one of my booths, maybe even he did a booth at one of your events for me. But he was doing Helicon. I used that as well. I tripped him out actually because he would set it up, Helicon, and then he would move his camera one increment at a time over like a real nice stack.

19:49BubblemanSo I was like, well, have you ever tried it like this? And I set up a piece of hash on a little thing that I could move. I didn't move the camera, and I just literally moved the hash. Like, it took me about eight seconds to take 15 shots, and he was just standing there with his mouth open. Like, I never thought to move the subject.

20:07SpeakerWell, that's funny, but you know what I have, Mark, is this. Can you see this? Hold on, I'll show you like this. I got it up and down right now, but the way it really looks...

20:22SpeakerAnd this is called Stackshot, so that you can actually put your camera on this, control this motor with my computer, and I can move this in, you know, literally cubic here increments if I want. Now I use that on MPE65 because it doesn't have autofocus, and I have to physically move the camera or the subject. But on the like 100 and the 180 macro, I can use the internal autofocus motor.

20:50BubblemanWell, imagine that 90% of my macro shots are taken handheld.

20:55SpeakerUm, to a degree, you know, you're not going to be able to do, you know, that's amazing, but you're not going to be able to do stacks handheld because, you know, you're talking, you're talking, you know, precision through all the shots with no movement. Hey, Tony.

21:11ToddWhat's up, guys? Good morning.

21:13BubblemanBlue River in the house? I like how Tony came in under Blue River today and Horatio came under Sabian.

21:20SpeakerBlue River.

21:21BubblemanWhat? I got to log out.

21:23SpeakerHold on a second. Yeah, me too. Thanks for pointing out that they're not paying attention on this Sunday morning, Mark.

21:33BubblemanRight? Yeah, those rack units, those little rail systems are beautiful for the absolute, like you said, less than a hair of precision.

21:46SpeakerYeah, and you know, now I also have the motor that turns it, so you're going to see me making 3D rotating photos soon. I just haven't had time.

21:55BubblemanGet on it, dude. Get on it. Can you press some rosin?

22:00SpeakerShut up. Whoa, Tony, you've lost weight.

22:10BubblemanI'm kidding. Lost weight? He'd lost weight completely. He doesn't even exist anymore. Yeah.

22:18SpeakerI don't know about that. I can tell you what. I'll tell you the kind of weight that I lost was only essential oils and flower rosin weight. Look how thick that is. It's three grams of the blue tea tangy. Flower Rosin.

22:38ToddOh, I missed it. Hold it up again, buddy.

22:40SpeakerThere's the...

22:42BubblemanShut up!

22:45SpeakerAwesome. This is the Sour D. That was awesome, dude. On Sour D. The Sour D Terps inside Sour D. And this one is a three gram. This is three grams. It looks like about five years ago you would think this was death. By BHO, but it's... Right.

23:08ToddLook how dark it is, Tony. Look at that. It's bad. All right, we're going in. We're going in.

23:15SpeakerI got some of this kosher. This kosher... This might be like some Superfire Press. Hash... I'm feeling bad. I didn't order the Dean Nail Press now. Hey, check this out.

23:33SpeakerIt's pretty cool. Desk Side Dabs.

23:39ToddThere we go. It works pretty good with... Hold it up to the light. Let me see. Holy shit. Works pretty good. What did you just squish?

23:51BubblemanI squished about like a gram and a half of bubble hash.

23:56SpeakerOh. Yeah, the press works really good for hash, huh?

24:01BubblemanIt works really good for herb, too. I've been taking the herb and wrapping it in pressing screens. You can almost break up the herb to powder, squeeze it into the pressing screen, and just press it just like you do hash, and you literally get ridiculous yields from it.

24:17SpeakerWhat's your yields off of that?

24:19BubblemanOff of my hash or off of my herb? Off the herb. Off of the herb, it's between 15% and 20%, and off of the hash, I'm getting between 35% and 70%. 60%, depending on the quality, of course, that I put in.

24:36SpeakerYeah.

24:38BubblemanIt's an amazing little machine. It's, uh, I mean, shit.

24:43SpeakerYep.

24:48SpeakerPretty good.

24:50BubblemanYeah, exactly. Just 1,000 pounds of pressure, and then I can just rub this shit off like you would not believe. It comes off the parchment so fast.

25:00SpeakerYeah, we've been taking about 70% yield on bubble, on three star, 80 to 85 on four, 95 on five and six, and then we do 15 to 25 on flowers. But we take that and go subcritical with it on the parchment so it comes off really easy.

25:26BubblemanYeah, you just crack it off.

25:31SpeakerThat's good. You got a little press over there.

25:34BubblemanI got a big one, too, actually. Well, keep in mind, the one that went to you was originally coming to me.

25:40SpeakerI doubt that.

25:42BubblemanI swear to God, because I was talking to that guy before he met you. I met him through Hash Church.

25:48SpeakerWho, Matt? Yeah. I don't think it's possible to actually get it to you. It weighs 500 pounds.

25:55BubblemanWhat? No, believe it or not, you can ship cars, Tony.

25:59SpeakerThey do it. Oh, Tony, you can do that. Yeah, easy. I'm like, I got my helmet and my pellet mill from Ohio.

26:05BubblemanOne of the things I know about is shipping.

26:07SpeakerWe already destroyed that one a long time ago. Nice. The one that was long? You're talking about the first one?

26:18BubblemanI don't know because I never received it.

26:20SpeakerOh, my God.

26:24BubblemanBut I do really like this D-Nail one. I'm telling you, I am sold for anyone can do it. That's the beauty of this unit, that it's like you just, you have it sitting here on your desk. I love the idea of making them much smaller. Like the press is awesome, the pressure, but D-Nail will shrink this shit down for the home user to be a much smaller, closer to a hair straightener.

26:48BubblemanThat works like a press instead of something that you're... On a side note, how many friends do you guys have that have hurt themselves from making rosin?

26:58SpeakerPeople are showing up. They're like, I need transdermal for my left knee and my shoulder. And I'm like, I'm not giving any transdermals out for rosin-related injuries right now. There are real people struggling with the machine at work that's killing them.

27:15BubblemanYeah, I couldn't believe it. It was like at least four or five people I know were like complaining of being like physically injured from making rosin, which is, you've got to be careful out there.

27:26SpeakerIt can be dangerous, you know. Like, I think that those models are great for the home use.

27:34BubblemanYeah, nice little thing, you know.

27:36SpeakerYeah. Oh, they're great. It's good. You know, though, don't you think that rosin really is going to be an end use? Because, I mean... It's really not designed for scale. I mean, how are you going to show up and press 300 pounds of butts?

27:50ToddYou know, like... What do you mean?

27:54SpeakerWe do 200 pounds a day. A butt. Yeah, but they brought the butt to you. Todd wants you to bring the machine to... No, no, I'm not saying it like that, Rachel. I'm saying that, really, you do 200 pounds of butt in a day? Yeah. Pushing one butt at a time? No, bro. No. Not doing one butt at a time, my friend. What is the break off for people listening?

28:20SpeakerHow much can you stick into a press? Like how much pot can you press without using it? I don't think people quite caught that there's three openings in the hydraulic press that we're using. We now have a four-plated system that's coming out. So that means you have four slots of quarter pounds. So you do a pound every 90 seconds.

28:42BubblemanAnd honestly, even those numbers will be laughable when we get the unit that you take out to the field. It's like a corkscrew press that's heated inside the cork and pushes through into a tube. No one's using these now, but they use them to extract and expel canola and seed oils, and they do it on fields that are fucking hectares big. So one day we'll be able to do literally like a ton through a machine.

29:06SpeakerYeah, and that's only one machine, man. We've got two of them, so we'll So like when you have, and you've got to think about it, the press isn't as much as the prep and the takedown. So there's tons of preparation and there's tons of post-prep to get flour rosin. But yeah, I mean, we're on a pressing frame. Like that little thing that you saw before. Hey, Mark, will you blow that up again?

29:35SpeakerYes, sorry. Tony was talking, so none of us get to see it. Wow, that's really nice, man. The sheen is great.

29:44BubblemanYeah, it's very shiny. This particular cup, if I show it to you what a little bit of it looks after it dries, I'll have to move the camera because it's just so... Wow, Tony, can you...

29:56SpeakerHold on. Wow, Mark, that looks good, too. Okay, Tony, can you do that again? The color is great. That's what happens when you get good pressure. Wow. Yeah, that looks great, Tony.

30:09BubblemanLet me click on your camera, Tony, so you can show that again because people won't see it unless I have my, there we go.

30:15SpeakerYeah. That is nice.

30:19BubblemanGlossy goodness. Look at all this rosin that's going around here.

30:23SpeakerI think the future is definitely rosin. It's SHO. Basically, what we're releasing on Wednesday is SIFT rosin. Flower Rosin, Turp Rosin, Full Melt, and SHO Butter and SHO Shatter. Sounds like the quiver. After that, I mean, we're, I don't know, like, if you're getting yields that are 15 to 20% on flowers and you could press out volume, then where is BHO?

31:01BubblemanWell, BHO was never anywhere with me personally. I'm going to try Horatio's new...

31:07SpeakerIt was never anywhere with me. Yeah, I don't know, guys. I think BHO is still a highly effective method that's not going to get pushed away. CO2 pens and BHO is both highly, hugely popular. So what if I came out with a... What if I came out with a small, viscous pen that was all made from flower roses? Well, you know, I think that we're going to see improvements over time.

31:31SpeakerYou know, who would have thought that we'd be dabbing pure cannabinoids off the nails, you know, 10, 15 years ago? I mean, it's so unbelievable what we're doing now. I mean, really, terpene collection, really? You know, that wasn't really the conversation back in the 90s. Yeah, that's true. Some fantastic achievements, advancements have been made in the 20 years I've been watching this. I mean, when I showed up in Amsterdam in 94, nobody was talking about no water hash.

31:56SpeakerWe were playing with Miele's Pollinator, which was wrongly named because it wasn't pollen. And we were tossing and tumbling our buds and collecting our resin powder. And we were pressing that and we thought we were doing big things. That was the hash scene back then. You know, screens on your trim table. That was like high tech. Oh yeah.

32:17BubblemanWell that's the thing because the only real way back then that you could know that something more existed was if you bumped into like Skunkman Sam or Rob Clark and you got to see... You know, if it don't bubble, it ain't worth the trouble.

32:34ToddRight, but even that though, that was only dry sift. I mean, that was, you know, when I met Rob and Sam, you know, when I went immediately home and did, was I bought these in every size. Yep, I have them all. Bro, come on. This is directly from Rob Clark's days. Wow. Yeah, oh yeah. Stainless steel. I used to give these little three inches away as gifts.

33:02ToddWow. And I had them all the way up to 18.

33:05SpeakerThe DEA stole them all when they raided me in 97, but thanks guys.

33:09ToddBut they come in brass and stainless steel. I'd get them at 150. There you go, Mark. We're on it. This is how we made hash, man. And then I had my Roto-Tap.

33:21BubblemanYeah, the Rototap, these fit right on a Rototap. For those of you that want to order these, you can order them from Fieldmaster, and there's the phone number right there on the camera. If it's going to unblur, I don't know. It seems to be grabbing me more than it does.

33:35SpeakerRight. Rob's recommendation was from 60 to 150 microns.

33:43BubblemanYeah, that's solid. Although, you know, you could throw a bigger one in there too nowadays. Well, yeah, like, you know, there's always, there's a quick process that you can do with a 220 and a 180. And you can get like damn near pure heads from just those two size screens. Wow. It's just a quick drop method. You keep the two very close to one another and you drop the resin through the first screen and while the heads fall like this, the capitate stalks fall like this.

34:19BubblemanAnd what happens is they end up getting stuck in that second screen, even though the holes are so big that normally it would fall through, the way it's kind of falling, they end up getting jammed in there like little trees if you go in with a microscope.

34:31SpeakerLike snowflakes or something, right.

34:33BubblemanYeah, so it's a neat little method that is definitely worth having in the quiver that I like to tell people. Speaking of the price of the quiver, there is Mr. Cubon. How you doing, bro?

34:49SpeakerGood, man. This thing never saves its configuration. Always have to set up the camera, microphone. But anyways, yeah, I was getting ready. I saw you guys squishing some rosin, so I needed to get on and join the ritual. As long as I can't smoke what Mark's pressing. Yeah, I'm about to start pressing some of this stuff. We need Google Transfer or some shit so it can just reach through the screen and hand me a bud.

35:13SpeakerI'm sure they're working on it. I would be happy.

35:20SpeakerYou're right, man. Dynasty Genetics is one of my new favorite Instagrams. I just gave them a shout out on my Instagram. If anybody is paying attention, they can find them easily. He's my last post on FXXX.

35:31BubblemanYeah, I follow him as well on Facebook. He's under the name Chris, and then a space, and then Topher, T-O-P-H-E-R, like Christopher.

35:47SpeakerI'll go direct there now.

35:49BubblemanAnd that's his Facebook page, Chris Topher. And he's got, yeah, he's got some great photos. He was one of the young dudes that over the, some time ago asked me a few questions about the camera and the lens and fuck, it was like six months later and he was just on fire. Great to see.

36:08SpeakerRight. Right. I started layering these photos in 2008, if you remember. I had them for my T-Expo back then. And back then, I was physically moving the focal ring and, you know, trying to teach people how to take better photos. And, you know, we should probably spend some time, Mark, going through that one day. People would like that because everybody's into photos now. It's not just a few of us geeks.

36:29SpeakerIt's, you know, everyone with a cell phone, which I think is awesome. But people could use tips on how to take better photos, for sure.

36:35BubblemanYeah.

36:36SpeakerHey, you take great pictures, dude.

36:38BubblemanI got to give props to Monkey, who was the guy that taught me how to do macro photographs. And I also started in 2008. That was the year that I bought the MPE lens. But I'd also, before Monkey, it was actually, perhaps, Wow, we've got to mute that dog, actually.

37:00SpeakerYeah, Tony.

37:03BubblemanNo, no, it's not Tony. He's muted.

37:05SpeakerWho's the one with the dog? My dogs are running around trying to figure out where the sound's coming from. It's kind of funny. Yeah. Hey, how's it going, Jeff? I have two pit bulls, man, and they're a clown shoe size 24, and I got a three-month-old puppy that she's just fitting clown shoe size 14, so you can hear her back there. She's actually tougher than the big dog, bro.

37:29SpeakerShe goes at him all day long, and he's just, you know, his temperament's real good, so He hasn't snapped back at her, but yeah, they're very vocal when we play. Awesome.

37:38BubblemanWell, I'm glad you're having fun. I certainly don't mind the sound of them playing, but just not when I'm talking. I did forget what I was talking about, but I'll get back to that in the meantime, I'll take a big rip of some flower rosin. Sweet skunk. Oh, Horatio, what is this eighth wonder? Can you tell me?

37:58SpeakerThe only real, that's my dry sift, uh, terp rosin as, um, or terp sift rosin. Uh, just like the 7 Star, I don't know if it's an East Coast thing, it's whatever the, whatever that fine line between the terpenes reapplied. Um, so, I mean, one day when me and Tony meet, we'll smell each other's terps and see what the difference is, but, um, That'd be the only difference.

38:25SpeakerThe seven stars, the dry sift, Dom with the terpene, and the eighth wonder is the rosin with the terpenes.

38:31BubblemanWhat did Analytical Mike say? He said he smelt both the terpenes, didn't he?

38:38SpeakerWell, I'm not... That starts a guy war. I'm not starting any guy wars repeating what anybody says. Yeah, that's... I'm not doing that on camera.

38:50BubblemanI don't know what he said, so I didn't know that it was a bad question to ask.

38:54SpeakerNo, no, no. It's always tough with opinions. Even when we showed up, he was like, somebody, True Genetics offered him some bubbles. He was like, do you want to really know, or do you want me to just kind of be like, huh, thumbs up? And he instantly was like, this could have used one more week's cure, and they instantly agreed. He's got a unique tongue. At sensing, you can almost say tech.

39:20SpeakerHe's like, when did you, when did you, how long did you cure this hash? How long were the flowers cured before you ran them? So he, other than the strains, I don't know if it's the sweet skunk factor. Because the sweet skunk, so I don't want to use the sweet skunk versus other terpenes.

39:38BubblemanWhat strain was this that you made it with?

39:40SpeakerThat's the sweet skunk from seed. So that produced its own, and it was two different phenos, so it produced its own sweet skunk taste compared to the more gassy, diesel-y one I come across.

39:53BubblemanAnd then you removed terpenes from that sweet skunk and put it into here.

39:57SpeakerI removed those grow room terpenes that if I don't remove them, I lose them even just keeping the material out.

40:06BubblemanCapturing the terpenes that would be lost in the drying process.

40:11SpeakerExactly. Then I dry it perfectly, sift it, and press it, and then reapply. So I gave you a little bit of the sift version to go with it. That was that little envelope somewhere.

40:23BubblemanDefinitely has some great taste and flavor and good fucking, like, I can say it has a different headspace than the normal sweet skunk.

40:33SpeakerThat's definitely what I enjoy about whatever these turps I'm pulling. That's kind of why I've got to experience Tony's headspace. To be like, okay, this is that effect that changes every strain. So Tony would think of it as usual. It's that exciting thing about Jamaica. Potential to potentially bring all of those unique things we never leave home with and converge and meet and put our senses together.

41:03BubblemanRadical openness. Practice it.

41:10BubblemanWe got 559 people hanging out in the chat room, chatting away. I have to give it up to the chatters, you know, aside from the odd neo-Nazi skinhead racist piece of shit, most of them are really great people in there and they're just having good conversations. I mean, last week we had to pick some guy out like a dozen times, but thank you guys for being mature enough to have a valid conversation without getting butt hurt about a disagreement.

41:38BubblemanDisagreements are good. And mistakes are good as well. It's definitely all the best things I've done in my life have come from making mistakes, so don't be afraid to make them.

41:51SpeakerAnd to the people in the chat room, I apologize. It turns out I found out I had a stalker, someone that has been defending this dude that was on Adam's Dunn show that Excellent.

42:30BubblemanWell, I'm fucking baked as baked can be. Nice sativa morning for me, man. I'll tell you. I just appreciate this. Or I guess the narrow leaf drug cultivar, if you want to go on the latest and the greatest. Saw a bunch of people posting something today about that. It seemed like a steep hill thing, though, but it was similar to what Rob was saying. It was like, Sativa, it was Indica.

42:58BubblemanIndica was Afghanica. Sativa is Ruder. I don't know. It was a weird Instagram post. I saw like half a dozen people post today.

43:07SpeakerIt's really easy, though. I mean, to be truthful, as a grower, I've always been annoyed at Sativa Indica because people don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And it's dumb to say something 60% Sativa and 50% Indica. And really, I think the new nomenclature, the new taxonomy is so much smarter. We've always been describing length of time something takes to grow and not the way we use it.

43:30SpeakerSativa was literally describing industrial cannabis plants that were used for paper and cloth and oils and foodstuffs and not drugs.

43:46ToddEvolutionized, we could call it, and evolved with all of these very solid parts of society. Paper, clothing, ropes, sails, paints and varnishes, all came out of the cannabis plant originally. We were co-dependent on the cannabis plant for our human evolution. And Indica was just everything from India, which when you go to India and you go up into the Hindu Kush Mountains or up into the Afghan area that used to all be India, that is what we call Indica.

44:17ToddBut as you travel south down India, you're going to discover these narrow-leaf drug varieties that we mistakenly call sativa, but they've never been to Europe. They were never used for sails and ropes and paper and oils. They were always in India. They were always drug plants. They were just tropical drug plants. So I think that it really makes a lot more sense now that you're getting into this narrow leaf, broad leaf.

44:41ToddAll drug plants are indica and nobody smokes sativa. Literally sativa was just Indo-European hemp varieties that really were being classified not for their psychoactive use but for their industrial use. And I think Rob's clarifying a lot because if you say something 60% northern and 40% tropical, now that makes sense. I can understand that you've got a 10-11 week plan. You know what I'm saying? Like the farther you go tropical, the longer the flowering time gets.

45:12ToddThat makes sense to people. But when you're saying sativa indica, it doesn't make sense to people. You know, there's sativa lettuce, lettuce sativa by Linnaeus 2. And it doesn't mean it's a long flowering psychoactive lettuce. It just means that it was a really good variety of lettuce and people should grow it.

45:30BubblemanThere's no doubt that Prohibition sent us down all sorts of interesting roads that we're now sort of backtracking on to get back to the main road.

45:41ToddI don't know if it was prohibition so much because what Rob pointed out is that they didn't have the indicas, the broad leaf drug varieties at Harvard and at the other botanical museums. They had narrow leaf drug varieties so they had never really seen the full spectrum of cannabis. And a lot of what we believed to be true in our libraries 150 years or 50 years ago, 100 years ago, we now know to be incorrect because now we've got a better view of the whole world.

46:10ToddAnd we know where cannabis is, and we realize our folly. You know, and people that are holding on to this Sativa Endicott thing, I think it's like, that's not the way a scientist thinks. A scientist lets go of what's wrong and picks up what's right. There's constantly an evolution of thought.

46:29BubblemanWell, those guys are still open blasting, what can I say?

46:31SpeakerYeah, just the guys that open blast, and those are the only guys that call it Sativa Endicott, you're right.

46:39BubblemanJust the metaphor.

46:43SpeakerSo should it be more interpretive? Should I be like, oh, this morning I'm having more of a euphoric happiness, drowsiness, dry mouth, heady...

46:55ToddWell, Horatio, if you're describing use, you can call it anything you want, but as a grower, if I'm describing it being growing, I'd hate to put it to you, but sativa doesn't tell me anything. You know, you tell me tropical, that tells me something. That tells me, okay, loose spindly blood buds that will resist mold and dry out easily, probably from an equatorial part of the world, probably Thai or Maui Waui or Jamaican or Acapulco Gold or Colombian or whatever.

47:21ToddIt's going to give me geographical reference. And this is really what it's more all about, because we are trying to figure out what cannabis is indigenous to, what areas of the land it's from, how is it going to grow, how well are the genetics going to gel with others. I mean, I'm starting to look at cannabis just like I look at people, and I'm the furthest thing in the world from a racist, but I appreciate the differences in race, if this makes sense.

47:47ToddSo cannabis is cannabis, like we're all humans, but these strains are like, you know, all the different wonders of how we've acclimated to different parts of the planet. And it's beautiful. And I think, you know, I really love that we have such racial and differences in language and everything. I think it's fantastic.

48:05BubblemanWell, I look forward to the getting in deeper, the understanding more of the profile and the terpene profile and eventually the genome and the genetics of the actual plant. And when those things can give us specific, like if this is in there, you know it's an equatorial. If this is in there, it's from... All of the ways that we can truly know more of what it is that we're talking about because originally they were just cataloging.

48:30BubblemanThey didn't know shit. They knew only what they could see and what they could draw. And that's not really the best way to catalog something. And I think that that new catalog will be more like a terpene profile, a cannabinoid profile, and then the knowledge of Thank you for joining us.

48:59ToddNo, and if we go to India, where Indica is from, if you look up the word Indica, it means of or like India, literally. So if you go to India, you will see there's a huge diversity in the cannabis that we're calling Indica that's literally indigenous to India.

49:14SpeakerAnd that's really what we're really talking about. I mean, so all drug varieties are Indica. And... You know, head varieties of sativa. Now we're just getting into deeper differences in how it grows. And I think it's fantastic. I mean, the better we understand what we're doing, the easier it is for people to jump on in and take part. What do you think about the, I mean, I totally back this style.

49:37SpeakerI just wonder, with everybody coming online to Cannabis in Droves, how does the populace not always redirect, tell me more about what it'll do for me, effects for me, where we're trying to know, tell me more about what I can do for the plant. It's two different directions.

49:55ToddIt's a two different conversations ratio because you're talking about, see, this is the thing. People are trying to say sativa is more euphoric and heady and wakes you up. It's not necessarily true. Tropical varieties have more THC than drug varieties. I was growing OG Kush next to a Neville's Haze. And, you know, same pot, same soil, same light, same environment. My haze came out at 23.7 and my OG cush at 20.66.

50:22ToddAnd, honestly, if we were to sit down and smoke a joint, you would probably think that the THC is a lot more potent because, man, it's lazy. You'll be nodding off in the hot tub. But the haze is actually... Got more of the psychoactive cannabinoids. So now really what we've been thinking about is it really is a combination of cannabinoids and terpenes because you could have more THC with less of a psychoactive effect, so to speak, or less of a physical motor effect because the OG is very physical.

50:54ToddAnd I love the haze during the day. I like all morning I'll smoke haze. It wakes me up. It makes me think straight. It's fantastic. When I first got to Amsterdam and realized there was cannabis I could smoke that didn't make me tired, didn't make me lethargic, didn't make me want to like melt into my couch and look for the remote, I was blown away. It was Cali Mist, it was NL5 by Hayes, it was anything really that took over 10 weeks to flower.

51:18ToddThat was really the plants that had a higher energy when you smoked them. But unfortunately, because they take over 10 weeks to flower, very few people grow them because it yields less and it takes longer by a simple measure of metric.

51:35BubblemanI was also blown away the first time I went to Amsterdam and realized that you could just buy hazes like all over the place. This is in the 90s, the mid-90s. It might have even been before super silver haze. I don't think that was even around yet.

51:52SpeakerNo, Super Steel by Hayes didn't hit until the late 90s. When I was living there, it was NL5 by Hayes was the huge quote, and Neville's Hayes, and I had the good fortune.

52:00BubblemanIn fact, my friend Wendy, I met this chick at the greenhouse coffee shop, she was a pretty freaky chick, and she was like, she was like, hey, you should come back to my grow, and I'm talking to her, and we're talking about like Zachariah Sitchin and crazy fucking, you know, the way aliens potentially interbred with humans, and she's like, oh man, you gotta talk to my buddy, he's super into this, and this is actually his grow, and I'm like, oh nice, he fucking grows sativas, and she calls her buddy up, and she's like, here, I want you to talk to him, and I'm like, what's his name, and she's like, Neville.

52:29BubblemanAnd that's the first time I met Neville. That's how I met him over the phone. I eventually then met him at Aryan's at the apartment above the greenhouse with Howard.

52:37SpeakerThat was like 96 then.

52:39BubblemanYeah, 96 later is when I first personally met him. This was 94, 95 when I met Wendy and when I first talked to him on the phone. He was there. He had grows going.

52:50SpeakerYeah, I've hung out with Neville, played chess with Neville. I like Neville. I think Neville's really an interesting person and he's a very good chess player. And, uh, I think that, you know, I wish there were more people like him who were true breeders. You know, aside from breeding cannabis, a lot of people don't know it. He breeds birds and horses. So he really is a study of genetics.

53:11SpeakerHe's really someone who studies the way things breed together. He's actually probably better well-known in the horse breeding circles than he even is in the cannabis circles, to be really honest.

53:22BubblemanWell, I'll tell you, it would be great to get him on along with Skunk Man and along with Mila and along with all the people that are a part of the water extraction history that we know of. Because it leads, it always leads back to Neville. Like the story always goes back to Neville who told Skunk Man Sam that resin is dense and affected by gravity and water.

53:45BubblemanAnd when Skunk Man Sam said, who told you that? He said, an unknown American. Yeah, yeah. So it would be great to hear it come out of his mouth. That's as far back as I've ever followed the history in our community. I'm not saying that some dude in Afghanistan didn't do it. I'm just saying that nobody wrote about it. We didn't see it.

54:08SpeakerYou know, I know people want to come along and say they were like hot knifing the cheesecloth off of their Pakistani hash, but I don't really believe it, because last time I bought that stuff, it was wrapped in cellophane, and the oil was intended to be the sheen that made up the edge coating of the hash. It didn't escape out.

54:26ToddWe were not pressing oil through parchment paper and cheesecloth. We were using fucking cellophane to keep all that resin out. Thank you for watching.

54:55ToddI mean, think about it now. Isn't that what made up the sheen edge of hashish? Remember when you get hash and have that amazing sheen, but it would snap, and then it would bubble when you burned it? It's like the most amazing hashes in Amsterdam. That sheen was the oil.

55:12BubblemanI have a photo, and it's got to be going back to 2004 or 5, and it's some bubble hash, really nice bubble hash that my friend pressed with pressure, which was completely unreal. It was like six star melt. And he like pressed it with pressure. So there's a whole crazy funny story about this particular hash because it was so beautiful I wanted all my photographer friends to shoot it.

55:38BubblemanBut this one photographer from a particular magazine, he shot it first and then he crumpled it all up so no one else could shoot it after that. So yeah, dude, don't worry about it. You wouldn't believe how bad I flipped out, but this hash, it was called Cascadia, and it was a piece about that big, and it was very thin. The whole top of it is covered in rosin.

55:59ToddRight. That's the oil sheen. That is the oil that was coating the hash, absolutely.

56:04BubblemanMore than a sheen. It's literally the only time I've ever seen it. It's like a thick layer of more than a sheen, and it's different. It's red, whereas the hash was more like a blonde, and it was kind of buttery. It's like there must have been a tiny bit of moisture left over and it kind of caked out a little bit. Still beautiful hash and it was still in one piece, but when it got crumpled up it was definitely like cake.

56:29BubblemanReal bummer.

56:31ToddI'll post that picture at Hash Church today.

56:36SpeakerNewsweek's article this week is called the 2016 Marijuana Election. It's amazing how much attention this is all getting now, man.

56:46BubblemanWell, Hey, how about this? I kept thinking about Jamaica the other day. Jamaica was so fast forward motioning. Everything was happening, happening, happening. And do you know what happened? Obama went to Jamaica. And since he went to Jamaica, we haven't heard anything about what's going on in Jamaica now. Kind of freaks me out a bit.

57:12SpeakerYou know, we pointed out in the Culture High that he spent more than Bush did already on fighting the drug war on medical marijuana. You know, and a lot of people want to paint him like he's a good guy, but he's really been horrible on drug reform, and I've been happy to see him talking about You know, the fact that we need reform in our prison system, but that's a no-brainer.

57:31SpeakerHe was talking about that before we put him into place of the job, and why not now that he's in a position of power to do something? Why isn't he doing it and not talking about it? Because the racial disparity of the people in jail is absolutely obnoxious.

57:45ToddAnd he should be doing something about it already. You know, the reason he's not is because all the assholes that gave him money to get re-elected have investments in all of these private prisons and policing and guns and everything. And they don't want to see him back off on any of it. The non-violent crimes are money makers in America right now for the courts, for the lawyers, for the judges, for the prison guards.

58:09ToddI mean, the prison guard union in California is one of the biggest unions in California. And they have been the most vocal about opposing marijuana legalization. And that's a really fucked up thing because what would prison guards give a shit if we legalize something? Oh, wow. It's they're making money off of us going to jail and we're a lot easier to basically babysit in prison than someone who's actually violent.

58:33ToddSo they don't want to see them stop locking us up. The prison guards are going to lobby so that they keep it the way it is. And really, as a collective, we've got to consciously fight against this. But, yeah.

58:47BubblemanWell, it's a profitable thing. I don't think people can wrap their heads around a workforce of 2 million people that can work 10 plus hours a day that get paid pennies. Pennies. That's like 20, 30, 40, 50 million plus profit in a day. Saved from labor.

59:11SpeakerI know. I refused to work at Unicor the whole time I was in federal prison. Pardon me? I refused to work at Unicor the entire time I was in federal prison because they have a situation where you go, you make 18 cents an hour, and you work a full day's work, and it's prison slave labor. And for the guys that go into prison and don't have any money or friends or any income coming in to buy anything off the commissary stamps to write to somebody, for instance, you've got to go get a job in the prison, and they have slave labor, and it's really screwed up.

59:46ToddYou know, ideally, I oppose it just because I see it as morning day slavery.

59:53SpeakerAll these drug war victims locked up in a system with nothing to do but go and sit in the mill and get... 100%.

1:00:02BubblemanIce Cube has a song, it's the NGA Trap. And you Google that YouTube song and it is unbelievable. He sings literally, concrete slave ships. That's what he says in... One of the lines of the movie and it's basically like, it's a pretty heavy fucking song, I'll say that much. Definitely worth checking out. He's put that one as accurate as it could be. It's complete slavery, man, and it's pretty fucked up.

1:00:35SpeakerYes, and I'm happy to see President Obama saying stuff about it, though. Ooh, I love that.

1:00:42BubblemanThat was from a little bit of leaf and bud remnants that I wrapped in this screen. So this is flower rosin.

1:00:54BubblemanEast Coast Sour Diesel flower rosin. Ooh, she's a greasy girl.

1:01:03BubblemanRockin' the Jeff Church Tech.

1:01:08SpeakerYeah. 25 micron screen, huh?

1:01:14BubblemanYeah, and I was more talking about how you pick up the resin from the... This is real sappy shit, though. Ooh, yeah.

1:01:23SpeakerHey, Bobo, man, I wanted to say thanks again for sending over those 25 micron screens for my rosin tech class that I did on Thursday. Your screens were the first ones to go for sure on the table. It was definitely a nice treat to be able to give people something to make their hash arousing with.

1:01:43BubblemanYeah, and of course you can reuse those screens. Ten Pins is asking in the chat. You can absolutely reuse those screens. In fact, what I've found is the screen is a great way to tell how efficient I've been in my pressing. When the screen is white and clean and I pull it off and it just opens real easy and the hash just pops right out, I know that I've done a really good press.

1:02:05BubblemanYou don't want to be opening up your screen and then pulling out some gummy gooey hash that's all bendy and nice and stuck to the screen because I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you still have resin present in your material.

1:02:25BubblemanThis is greasy as shit.

1:02:30SpeakerHow's it taste?

1:02:32BubblemanOh, it tastes like East Coast Sour Diesel Funk. In fact, you know how it tastes? I can taste it in my throat and, like, extremely strong on my lips, just that East Coast Sour Diesel Funk.

1:02:47SpeakerWow. And, you know, I'm going to have Mel Frank and Rob Clark visiting me in the next two weeks, so if they're here on a Sunday, we could have them both on.

1:02:55BubblemanOh, absolutely, dude. That's awesome.

1:02:58SpeakerYou know Mel Frank's 71 now?

1:03:01BubblemanNo shit. Good for him.

1:03:03SpeakerYes, he is. Awesome. He was with us at Challenge. It was great.

1:03:08BubblemanI saw a few pictures. It was nice to kind of see, like, wow, like, holy shit, there he is.

1:03:13SpeakerYeah, it was awesome. I mean, for me, it's so dreamy. I mean, spending all my time with him and Kenny and Rob, just, it's... Yeah, Kenny said the same thing.

1:03:26BubblemanThe highlight of his trip, for sure, to get to hang out with all you guys.

1:03:31SpeakerYeah, I felt the same way. I mean, you know, I love spending time with Kenny. Listening to him talk is just absolutely, like, fascinating. It's just absolutely fascinating. His mind goes at a thousand miles an hour, and he's so lucid. And the way he's seeing things, it's fantastic. That's awesome. Yeah. The shit he's coming up with now is just fucking unbelievable. Unbelievable, you know. And we'll start seeing it.

1:04:05SpeakerI mean, when we start seeing the terpene isolation machines that he's got coming down the pipe, it's going to be amazing.

1:04:12BubblemanYeah, I've been waiting for that one. That'll be a game changer for sure. It'll put a lot of people on a more of a similar, you know, there's only a few. And it's like, even all the people that are rocking terps, literally, you can rock that back to conversations with Kay from Tricom Technologies.

1:04:32ToddYes. You know, and this is the beauty of Kay. He's been out there speaking at these things and talking in front of panels and giving people information and just like, I mean, it's really cool. I mean, when you look at the articles he's put in there, I mean, he's been a catalyst for those who have been paying attention in such a huge way. You know, for those of us that really have always geeked out on this shit, for the past 15 years, Kenny has been delivering really good information.

1:04:57ToddYou know, like, unbelievable. You know, even that. I mean, he took the idea that Neville had and played with it, played with it, played with it, played with it, played with it, too. I mean, everybody has really had huge parts in this. I mean, also with butane.

1:05:10SpeakerKenny's been a huge innovator when it came to solvents. Huge. You know?

1:05:15BubblemanYeah, you sure wrote a good article there in High Times.

1:05:20ToddHow to Clean Your Concentrates, Part 2? Part 1 and Part 2? Yeah, I think...

1:05:25SpeakerHeart of Cleaner Concentrates Part 3 is really going to be interesting because we've talked about it quite a lot. Unfortunately, other matters have intervened, but when that comes out, I think people are going to be startled at some of the stuff that he comes out with next.

1:05:40ToddYou know, how to clean your concentrates part two was really intended for people that were running trim and were getting a lot of the wax that was on the leaf because there was a low ratio of resin to, I would say, you know, cuticle level wax material on the leaf because there's more leaf surface, so you had more wax.

1:05:59SpeakerAnd, you know, when you're running buds and you don't have that waxy layer surface and it's just cannabinoids, you know, winterizing can actually kind of take away from your product.

1:06:10BubblemanOops, geez, I just about blew you out of the room, Todd. That would have been bad. I went to reply to Jeff. He's saying he got 38.4% terms. I'm guessing he meant terps. But that's a very high percentage of terps. Like, what the hell were you doing? Pouring terps in there?

1:06:29SpeakerIt was terpenes, and we extracted sour diesel trim and got 38.4%. At least that's what they reported it as. When I read the results, I read 34.8%, but still, whatever, it's really high. And very, very little cannabinoids. It was extracted with CO2. It was a raw CO2 extract.

1:07:02BubblemanI like the awkward silence there after Jeff's mentioning there.

1:07:06SpeakerWas it subcritical or supercritical? Supercritical. It was supercritical extraction actually, which is kind of amazing. Having that high of a terpene result from supercritical is quite amazing. You normally get a lot of waxy portions that come over in supercritical, and this was completely liquid and just clear as a bell. Very nice.

1:07:39BubblemanI do look forward to the day that we see the cryogenic unit because that's the only, it's even much older than supercritical and apparently is one of the only ways and it's the only time I've ever heard the term super terpenes and the guy who created the, I won't name his name because I don't know if he wants me to name his name but he went by Indra online when he released the BHO method but he now does a cryogenic method And it's definitely efficient.

1:08:08BubblemanI sent him seed, hemp seed, because I didn't, of course, want to send him anything illegal. But I was like, well, if you can, you know, separate, you know, at that quantity and temperature, you should have no problem defatting hemp seed. And he defatted it, and I had it tested in labs, and it, of course, was all the numbers were off the charts, and it was the highest protein powder isolated, and the oil came out gold, which hemp seed oil, if you know, usually comes out green because they're doing something called cold pressing, and cold pressing is really a misnomer at best.

1:08:41BubblemanIt does create heat, and that's why you get the green in there, and unless you run it through like a charcoal filter, you can remove that green and get a gold oil, but that's cheating in my opinion. It's not like The same level of this guy producing this golden hemp seed oil. So I do look forward to the day one day where we can check out these super terpenes and these numbers.

1:09:01BubblemanHe told me literally when I sent the stuff to the lab that the lab will have never seen numbers like these ones testing for this particular protein powder and for oil content and etc. Look forward to it. Hey, Illidelf, it's the real, how can I not tell this story again? It's like, it's the only thing right now that nobody knows about. Like, this whole fucking group of people on this panel, they've only ever heard about it from me.

1:09:28BubblemanSo I hope the more I say it, somehow, one day, one of them gets approached and they get to see it because it's something different, something new. How could you not want to push the boundaries? I want you to push the boundaries.

1:09:44SpeakerSo the interesting thing about the whole terpene crown competition was our entry, ThinkPure's entry for CO2, which was, you know, a raw CO2 extract, no modifications, no fractionations, post-extraction, you know, just straight out of the separator. It actually got disqualified because it was an outlier. Is what they say. And because its test results were so high, we got the highest terpene content and the highest limonene content, they actually disqualified our sample without asking us, you know, how we did it and awarded it to somebody else.

1:10:28SpeakerHow did this happen? High times? No, no, this was the very first terpestival. You know, they were nice. They came back and did a little write-up and gave us the outlier award is what they say. They had to make a new award for us because they say our terpenes were a little bit too high for anybody else that was in the competition. So, yeah. It was the Cannabis and Social Policy is who did the event here, which is a really great...

1:11:06SpeakerKind of think tank here in Washington State that analyzes data and trends on cannabis. And so I really suggest everybody go check out their website, Cannabis Social Policy. It's a really good one. But yeah, the workshop here in Washington basically said, yeah, I don't know. This is too liquid. This can't be in the same category as all these other extracts.

1:11:33BubblemanWell, you know what? I think that the reason that exists, and it's unfortunate that it does, is because so many people are so shady, and they just come up with things, and it's just like, when you first see something, even if, like, particularly something you've never seen before, something that's like, whoa. Like, the first time I ever posted Waterhash online, a photo of it, someone was like, that looks fake.

1:11:57BubblemanSomeone was like, that looks like Mr. Whippy mouse shit. Like, there's no way that's real hash, and this was on, like, the younger Cannabis.com, and I put it up at Cannabis Culture as well and got some people, like, this was in, like, 99, and people just didn't believe that it was real.

1:12:17BubblemanWhich is fairly hilarious.

1:12:19SpeakerYeah, I've had a couple people call me up and ask me, you know, what did you do? Did you add some terpenes to your sample, you know, because... They're just in kind of disbelief. They say, well, there's no way that you could extract that much terpene from the plant itself. And so, you know, I mean, we did it. Our team at Think Pure, we've been working this CO2 game for a while now, and we just were able to get those wonderful CO2 raw terpenes now.

1:12:49BubblemanThat's awesome.

1:12:50SpeakerVery little cannabinoids. We had a lot of cannabichrome in there, CBC and CBCA. We're the major cannabinoid constituents in the extraction, which was kind of interesting. I had never had anything that was that high in CBC, but it was around 20%, I believe, was what the CBC and CBCA came out to, added together.

1:13:15BubblemanInteresting is right.

1:13:19BubblemanCollecting a little East Coast sour diesel flower rosin here.

1:13:24SpeakerAnybody on the panel have much knowledge about CBC? Or, you know, I mean, I looked it up and it's, you know, definitely got some good uses, but... Tony, didn't I, once I, Bubble Man brought, was it CBC or CBG transdermal you made, like, it was over a year ago for sure. But Tony would be the guy, but he's trying to finish a website right now. You've got to get his attention.

1:14:00BubblemanOh, that was really delicious.

1:14:05BubblemanTasty. I hope everyone just took a rip right now. All 645 of you. Damn it. CBC, yeah, I can't remember if it was CBC or CBG cream.

1:14:19SpeakerYeah, you know, I've never seen anybody marketing CBC in any dispensaries or really, you know, I mean, it's something that's always on the test results and there's, you know, 1% of it maybe that I see. But, yeah.

1:14:35BubblemanWell, that's good to know that people should be looking at these different small percentages of other cannabinoids because they may come in handy in the future of the extract world. Knowing these different ratios that it's like, oh, it doesn't seem to be doing what it's supposed to be doing. It's like, well, what if you put in like 1% CBC? Bam! You never know. There's so many complex profiles going on here.

1:14:58BubblemanBut everything we know now will definitely be wildly expanded in the next five years to the point where we might look back and laugh at what we thought we knew now.

1:15:09SpeakerWell, I'm terrified of the labs that are still doing the basic three or the basic five, because just like when we started breeding out everything in the name of THC, I feel like we have these cannabinoids that are, there's still strains falling off the map before we know it. It feels like one of those wildlife things. Every day a strain dies, a guy kills a mother, and the cannabinoid profile is lost forever.

1:15:32SpeakerBut every two days, you know, three new wimpy strains are born as another shitty hybrid. And just knowing that like, fuck, I really, I wish more places tested for THCV. Like that's a major critical one in these sativas that makes a difference to us that I think is like really going to make a major role in depression and getting people out of a rut. So, you know, I would love to see those other cannabinoids, you know, just as much as chasing new terpenes.

1:16:07SpeakerBut I remember I wanted to make a point a long time ago when we were arguing about should we be focusing on the plant versus focusing on naming things for the people. I figured we're going to end up naming out the terpenes, and the terpenes, their effects are ubiquitous. They're all around nature, so it'll have the same effect. Once it says limonene, valencia, this... That times whatever the cannabinoids are, we'll know and that'll be the way we'll describe it to people is by the terpenes, which is a little bit more better than saying, oh, it'll make you euphoric, it'll make you dry mouth.

1:16:42SpeakerIt'll probably be the terpenes that are deciding what makes variety. So they'll become groups of like citrus effects, groups of mint effects. Is that more realiztic to you, Todd, for ways to describe the plant to people and guarantee its effects? Anyone can go and look in their essential oils book and go, oh, that's good for arthritis. Maybe this could help.

1:17:02ToddThat's fantastic. You know, as you were saying it, Horatio, it really made me, because we, you know, the difference is this, though, and I would say this. I think you're right about the terpenes and why not because terpenes are terpenes if that's the case. The only uniqueness begets in the cannabinoids because there are no comparisons in nature. For cannabinoids, cannabis is the only plant in the world that makes tetrahydrocannabinol, you know, CBD, CBG, everything.

1:17:28ToddAll the cannabinols are only made out of cannabis, so in that, it's unique. The terpenes, though, I actually think now that we're starting to learn how to grow more, you know, not that our, you know, Other generations didn't, but now that we're preserving these oils and we're going for a longer flowering cycle, we're trying to make sure the resin's completely ripe, we're trying to make sure all the fragrances are there, we're keeping our rooms at cooler temperatures, we're doing every effort we can to make the oil and the cannabinoids a shining part of the harvest.

1:18:00ToddI think we're going to see more and more and more of these available because when people really realize that it's after harvest that they have to take care of their plants, so many people ruin their cannabis after they cut it down. It's not funny. People like you who are trying to preserve what's left would have a lot more to work with if you were able to actually work with super greasy, resin-rich, oil-rich plants that were All the way, all the way grown with the end result being these oils in mind.

1:18:34SpeakerIt's been a terrible fight. I sent Mark a picture and I'm like, it's 8 a.m. and the sativa's hanging, it's day 80 and I gotta trim this if I want it fresh. And that's my day and it's like, do what you gotta do. And that sweet skunk, although it's not, you know, the clone... Thank you for watching.

1:19:22SpeakerAnd that's kind of why I'm like, I can't even describe what the strain is now. But if I could get the terpenes and then trace their roots, the only difficulty I'd say is cannabis is one of the most complex mixers of potent medicinal terpenes out there, and there's nothing like it. Most things are one-dimensional, maybe three-dimensional. So it's just as complex when every strain is a 90-terpene brew from grandma on how to fix your cough.

1:19:55SpeakerAbsolutely.

1:19:56ToddAnd I think that you're going to find out that places that are geographically suited for terpene preservation, colder, colder climates up north where they can do really well-controlled indoor grows, there's no risk of bugs coming in because it's so cold outside, the air is sterile, that you're going to see preservation of these oils and terpenes done more geographically. Because you're not going to be able to get the same amount of terpene preservation in a warmer, hot climate because they're evaporating.

1:20:25ToddYou know, you're going to have to do it in places where you can control the temperatures. And, you know, truth be told, a lot of why I like BHO, bluntly, is because it preserves the terpenes the best, because it happens at such a low temperature that I started really finally discovering the terpenes in it, because my frustration with water was is that water is a, water does wash away.

1:20:47ToddWater is, Thank you for watching.

1:21:07ToddAnd this is why I like rosin so much, though, on the flip, because rosin is giving me back that essence of the flower that I like so much. But isn't this all a temperature game when it comes to preserving these very volatile oils?

1:21:25BubblemanIt is, but at the same time, I have no understanding or explanation for why some of the turpiest, nicest resin I've made Has grown in a tropical country that is just like, you think, how could those terpenes not all be evaporated? It's insane. It's like 30, it's like 100 degrees every day and this plant's just in the sun for like its entire life cycle. And at the end of it, I make hash with it and it's like, I mean, even friends of ours who are the biggest snobs ever were looking at that hash going, My God, like that is...

1:21:59ToddBut now, could that be acclimatization? And this is the other thing, is if you took that plant into a cold controlled climate up north where you live and were able to play with it in, you know, the most perfect temperatures, would that thing be ten times what you experienced? I doubt it.

1:22:16SpeakerIt's acclimation to things, especially to the... Harder conditions build the most durable of any genetic. There it is. And whether it's people breeding, whether it's plant breeding, whether it's animal breeding. So when you get a plant that's adapted its terpenes, which are its protection against all those conditions generationally, you get something that can bypass water. Because guess what? In the tropic, it's going to rain like shit for 20 minutes three times a day and then go back to a trillion degrees humidity.

1:22:46SpeakerRight. And then it's going to drop like the desert, super cold at night. So that's why when you bring it to a grow room that's a joke, you get a disaster. And it's also why last week when I was like, Todd, the environment is the plant. And if you don't put it in your book that way, you won't get it.

1:23:04ToddThat does sound weird though. But if you were to go down and you were to find a plant that is acclimated to this place and you were to take a cutting and bring it back, Thank you for watching.

1:23:32ToddWith, oh, stress of nature, stress of bugs, stress of wind, stress of moisture, it's going to be able to express whatever it's capable of. So it's hard for me, you know, a grower, to not think that if I put it in an ideal situation, I wouldn't be able to see it at 100%. Because my attitude is, is that you cannot see it at 100%, even though she's acclimated to be such a real strong contender, you know, there's a line in, in, in, The book Marijuana, The First 12,000 Years.

1:24:04ToddAnd it's so cool. He opens up his forward. He says, he's talking about a hemp seed. And his quote is, it sprouts from the earth not meekly, not cautiously in suspense of where it is and what it may find, but defiant, arrogant, that whatever the circumstance, it has the stamina to survive. And it's so cool. I love his whole book. But he's talking about cannabis. And it's so true.

1:24:32ToddIt has such determination. But you take it out of a place where rain and wind and all these things are mitigating its ability to be 100%. And I think you'd be surprised at what you found. Really, I would. Put it in an amazing greenhouse, and you might have some of the most amazing oil you've ever seen.

1:24:52BubblemanWell, it's definitely our companion plant, and we are one of the reasons that it is as successful as it is, as Michael Pollan writes in Botany of Desire. It's definitely one of our companion plants. We have moved this plant all over the world. We are the birds for the cannabis plant.

1:25:12ToddGuys, have you guys seen The Scientist, the new documentary about Ralphie McCollum? Yeah. How fantastic. It's on YouTube, everybody, in multiple languages. If you just go type in, you know, cannabis and the scientists, you'll see it. I've Twittered it. It's fantastic.

1:25:28BubblemanWe'll give you the Nash Church link as well. We've got to get Raphael on church one day. Oh, and Mark Scaldone chimed in about the CBC. He was like, hey. Quick five health benefits of CBC. Fights bacteria and fungi, has anti-inflammatory properties, relieves pain, fights depression, stimulates brain growth, grows fucking brain cells.

1:26:05SpeakerSweet. Thank you very much, Mark. That's awesome.

1:26:11BubblemanOh, fuck. He is off today to a nanotechnology... A nanomedicine symposium to explore the intersection with cannabinoids to do targeted delivery to solid tumors to treat brain and pancreatic cancers using nanoparticles like a Trojan horse to deliver cannabinoids.

1:26:34ToddYeah, that's pretty cool.

1:26:38BubblemanMedicine. I like using cannabis to help.

1:26:45SpeakerYes, I just wanted to touch on what Todd was saying. I totally see where you're coming from, this perfect, ideal environment where you've got no rain washing stuff away, you've got no wind blowing the turps off the plants. I also see where in nature certain things will express better when they are stressed. And I believe that cannabis is one of those plants. So I think that the ideal environment that you're talking about is not going to be this exact temperature and this exact humidity that never changes.

1:27:17SpeakerI believe there has to be some sway that's going on That will cause the production to be stimulated of these terpenes because they're really, you know, they are beneficials to help the plant live. And so... You don't grow, do you, Jess?

1:27:35SpeakerYou don't grow, do you? Yeah. You grow? Yes, I do. Indoors or outdoors? Inside. Right. So you know temperatures never stay at one thing. They fluctuate. Right, you do know that. But if you can keep your temperatures down at 72 degrees while flowering, you're going to have much more oil production than if you're at 85, 86 degrees.

1:28:05SpeakerWhat do you keep your flower room at for flowering temperature? No, I understand that rooms fluctuate. That's not what I was saying. But what do you keep your temp at in your flowering room inside your house? It depends seasonally, right? You know, because things fluctuate, because it's not a perfect environment, like you're talking about. And I understand, I understand that, you know, but, but, you know...

1:28:38SpeakerRight, it's not like that. It's not for production.

1:28:43ToddI mean, because look, if you really, I've been growing since 1984, and if you really want to talk about growing, I'll talk about growing with you. I mean, if you have warmer temperatures, you get more inner node. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:29:21SpeakerI'm not arguing that one bit. I'm just saying that those ideal situations may include some fluctuation and not be an exact temperature all the time. Because that's what leads to, you know, just as you don't want your soil to be the exact same moisture 100% of the time,

1:29:43ToddI don't think anyone's ever said 100% time because you're going to have nighttime and daytime temperatures. There's no question you're going to have, but your range, everyone has a range. It's just some ranges are two feet long and some people's ranges are six inches long. And people that can have a shorter range and that can actually control that range best are going to have the most efficient, productive grow rooms because you're going to have problems when you get too warm.

1:30:09ToddYou're going to have problems if you get too humid. And this is just part of growing. You're going to have insect populations rapidly grow if it's too warm, too moist. You can get mold issues if it's too warm, too moist. I mean, realiztically, controlling this isn't something that, I mean, on a serious note, if you're really growing, if you're spending a lot of money building a big grow room and you're trying to do this consistently, you know, you really can't afford it.

1:30:35ToddIf you're doing two or three lights or four lights or ten lights and you're just fucking around, Then I can see it not being a big deal, but people that are trying to produce a consistent product, I don't know, I think they're trying to make consistent grow rooms. In my little opinion.

1:30:52SpeakerSo Todd, you're going to write that entire section about environment like I wanted when it came up and I was like, Todd, this guy's grow room is the reason he is so fire and it is almost more important than anything he does with the soil. It's the study of his room and his ability to control it that makes him produce every time. All the time and it never fails because this was the last test.

1:31:16SpeakerI'm like it's the hottest it's ever been. I know you in the winter. I know when it's easy to drop temperatures and his plants still produce a shit ton of oil. So now it becomes I'm going to look at that 14 foot ceiling. I'm going to look at the difference between water cooled chillers and not water cooled chillers. Why does he still use the old bulb down?

1:31:35SpeakerHe's not into hoods or any of that bullshit. And it makes all the difference. Because when you say ideal conditions, what you're really seeing is your understanding of nature, how deep is it, and then recreating the ideal version of those conditions for the plant. But everyone's depth is limited. There's people who think, oh, it's ideal to keep it hot and humid, like the tropics. And they have no understanding of insects.

1:31:58SpeakerAnd that's why their plants go to shit and are mediocre.

1:32:01ToddWell, a lot of what we see happening, you know, listen guys, and all, you know, Mark knows that my teacher has been Rob Clark for 20 plus years, so I've been very fortunate to be so close to the author of Marijuana Botany, and I went to him like a naive student and just asked questions, and I didn't really, wasn't, I was growing for 10 years, 84 to 94 before I walked into Amsterdam, and honestly, I thought I, I thought I, I thought I knew what I was doing a little bit, right, and then I got to Amsterdam and was like, oh, That's what it looks like when it's done professionally because I had never seen control of plants and asexual propagation so uniformly done.

1:32:40ToddI never seen anyone being able to grow so many different strains and realize the differences in the strains until I was at Positronics because we're kind of in our closed little closets. Posi was the first place I saw that had a show and grow where they put four 600 watt lights in. And they would put, like Noah, two plants of each strain that we sold clones of.

1:33:03ToddWe'd put them all in at the same time. The plants, the lights would just go up, you know, accordingly. But you would see all these 20-something strains express themselves completely unique to one another. And we did that so that when people came in to ask us, what does the plant need me to do, they wanted so badly to generalize the conversation. And we would take them over to that room and say, you know, see that four-foot plant?

1:33:28ToddIt's been growing for as long as that two-foot plant. And this is the difference of genetics and what they do. And we used that room to teach genetics to people because that was an easy way to show them. So this is where you get tall, lanky plants like the NL5 by Hayes. I was a huge fan of Neville's plant. The tips he gave me to grow it was keep your room cold.

1:33:50ToddIt won't be as lanky. I did that with OG Kush. It worked with OG Kush as well because OG will totally get lanky if it's given the chance in a warm room. And when you start controlling these things really well, you know, this is where you start controlling your environment, and you can make the plant do what you want. One of the best compliments I ever got was from a friend who came over, gave me a cutting, and when he saw the way I kept my mother plants, his response was, wow, I didn't know that they would do that, because they were just little bushes, like two-foot bushes sitting on a hydroponic rail system, and I would just top them like they were a hedge plant.

1:34:25ToddAnd he just couldn't believe it. He'd never seen such uniform. And I could post photos of it. I have photos of it. Uniform plants. And I learned it watching professionals in Amsterdam, to be really blunt. You know, guys like Simon went to school, the guy that owns Serious Seeds, to be a botanist. Because in Holland, you have a huge career in plants with tulips and greenhouses, if you so choose it.

1:34:48ToddIt's just like guys like him, some of them Thank you so much for joining us.

1:35:14ToddHe would actually spend years breeding a plant until he had a stable F1 that he would release and that he was really proud of. That's what Neville was like. Neville put a lot of effort into what we call NL5 bi-haze and all the other plants he did because it wasn't just NL5 bi-haze he crossed. It was NL1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and you just don't hear about those because the genetics didn't gel as well.

1:35:40ToddIt was the NL5 bi-haze that became the rock star. And that was the kind of breeding. When I first went to Sensi Seeds' Cannabis Castle opening and they had the chalkboard up, and I don't know if you went on the tourist market and you saw the breeding schedules that were drawn out by Neville, I actually stood there with my video camera with my jaw on the floor because I was just thinking, how long does that take?

1:36:05ToddYou've got to flower all of those out, try it, cross it, try it, cross it. Jeez.

1:36:12BubblemanYeah, it's pretty wild. Those were unique times there, the Cannabis Castle.

1:36:19SpeakerYes, they are. Yes. We might be doing some hash churches from there coming up, actually. Reopen it.

1:36:30BubblemanWe've got some chatty chat chat going on in the chat.

1:36:36BubblemanA bunch of people chatting away. This is going to be a short hash church, maybe just another 20 minutes, and I'm going to make my way to my camping trip. Got time for a few more buds. Dab? Where is the camp?

1:36:52SpeakerOr maybe you shouldn't say. Going to the Okanagan.

1:36:56BubblemanHuh? Going to the Okanagan. Wow. Yep.

1:37:02BubblemanVery fun spot. Very beautiful. Nice and warm. It's where most of the fruit in BC is grown. Wow. Cherries.

1:37:15SpeakerI'll see you all next time. I'm going to take off.

1:37:18BubblemanThanks for coming out, Jeff. Much appreciated. Have a great day, bud.

1:37:22SpeakerAll right. You as well. Enjoy the camping trip.

1:37:27BubblemanYeah, man. Absolutely. It's been too long. I don't get camping often enough these days, so just getting out every once in a while, like once a year if I'm lucky, is important. NL is Northern Lights.

1:37:43BubblemanNorthern Lights, yes. Got a nice old cut from Doc Atomic from some old, old strainage of his. I don't know if it was a 84 or what it was, but it was definitely... OG style normal mites. Herbs like you don't see so much anymore.

1:38:04SpeakerI wonder where they are. You know, we were talking about that old stinky skunk genetic that used to be around. The one that smelled like skunks was really accurate.

1:38:15BubblemanYeah, roadkill.

1:38:16SpeakerIt's kind of rare now. I don't see it.

1:38:21SpeakerRight? It was a New England thing. That's what I had first when I was growing... When I got weed, it was supposedly coming out of a greenhouse in Vermont, but that could have been as bullshit as I used to tell people it was growing in a cave in Alaska, so.

1:38:39SpeakerI used to say the aromatic caves of Alaska. Man, you don't understand. When it's growing in a cave, man, the THC, it's going to get you fucked. Buy it. I would have bought all that hype. I love that hype. Tell me a back story.

1:38:55ToddWhen I was a teenager and we started getting really crystal-y pot, I'd call it Alaskan Snow Bud, grown in the aromatic caves of Alaska.

1:39:04SpeakerAromatic Snow Bud. Yeah, I would always joke. Grown in igloos.

1:39:12BubblemanWell, yeah, you know, I think that if it just completely became legal, like totally, completely legal, And it was suddenly time for everyone to be like, show me what you got. You want to play the game? Everyone just put their shit out on the table, and the people who have the five or the ten best are the people that are going to definitely be moving on to the next project.

1:39:36BubblemanAnd I think you would see an unbelievable amount of product. You'd see random dudes that are just like, I'm the only one that has it. I don't give it to anyone. It's like, oh, well, thank you so much for the great work that you've been doing, you fucking hoarding douchebag. But in reality, share your strains. It's a good thing. People need them. We're talking about, you know, when we say help, it's not like you have to, like, grow resin and make and extract and process and do the whole nines and make a product and then give it to someone and that's how you've helped them.

1:40:06BubblemanBut sometimes it can be just as easy as passing a clone, not even with roots. That's how wonderful this plant is. You can just fucking snip it with scissors and be here. Here you go. And it's more around. I mean, the only reason strains aren't more around is because people hold on to them.

1:40:28SpeakerI guess they fear another guy's grow environment will express the plant more than that. That's the fear, that their understanding of the plant is limited and their ideal conditions turn out to be false and giving away the genetics.

1:40:41ToddCan I say two sides of that, though? You know what? There's those of those that are afraid... You know, for instance, OG Kush has been a burden and a blessing to a lot of us that's had it. And it's been a beautiful experience for me in a way. But when I first got that plant, I was asked not to give it away or not to trade it because in the 90s there was a small group of people growing it that were making, you know, they were making it really well and they had a high quality and they were selling it for a right price and they didn't want the clone getting around everybody so they could decrease the quality of the product and ruin their own market.

1:41:19ToddSo they wanted to share it with people but it was like a whiskey recipe. That was in the family and they didn't, you know, Jack Daniels wouldn't be Jack Daniels if they let everyone in the world have their own number seven whiskey recipe. And I got it. And I was thankful for getting the plan at the time. My say unfortunate was is someone found out about it, the guy that says he turned in the Laurel Canyon House, and he wanted the plant for me and I wouldn't give it to him and it created animosity and, you know, yada yada.

1:41:45ToddBut it's a, it, I see it in places. Rob showed me a bud the other day, and I said, can I get a cutting of it? And he said, no, this is one of the first plants going to be licensed to be grown at a facility. And I think that is the future, if you want to be honest. And I think that a lot of people are going to look for flavors.

1:42:05ToddSo people are going to do their own selections. And there will at some point be what's called a plant registry here in the United States as there is in Europe, and people will be able to register cuttings just like they do at rose bushes, because if you go down to Kmart and you buy a rose bush, you cannot make cuttings of that rose bush and commercially sell them.

1:42:23ToddYou would get sued for infringement on the work that was done by the people that bred and selected that rose bush. That's going to happen to cannabis, no question.

1:42:35BubblemanRight, and it'll happen with all the processing as well. Like the people who are using hydrocarbons, like you, that's a patented process. People who are using water extraction, that's a patented process. All these different methods of processing that people have been doing, that's no different than what you just said. They're patented processes, and people are using them not only for their own personal use, which is no problem, but they're using it to profit on a corporate level.

1:43:01ToddWell, I don't think this is going to be, you know, guys, I don't want to sound like I'm a, but it's like beer recipes. You know, we're right now. I understand exactly what you're saying 100%. Totally. We're having a conversation during alcohol prohibition, and we're all like, share your recipes, share your moonshine. They're going to shut us down. And I get it.

1:43:22BubblemanBut the beautiful thing about cannabis is we're a little bit more than moonshine. We have gone from this.

1:43:29SpeakerYou get my euphemism.

1:43:31BubblemanYeah, but I mean, the whole medical thing is what's really opened the sharing up. It's like, and sure, moonshine, well, you don't need to share your recipe to really help anyone. All it's going to do is get people drunk and cause more of a stain on our culture.

1:43:45ToddNo, and I meant it more culturally than mentally. Look, during prohibition, we're in a pressed time, and during an oppressed time, we're going to act differently than when it's completely legal. When it's completely legal, then I could do work, and I could license it to you, and you could profit from it, and I wouldn't get I would profit from it too. I mean, and it's not a bad thing that if you do work, if you write a book, that you get paid for the book.

1:44:11ToddIf you're Sam the Skunk Man and you make something that's useful to me, why should I have a problem benefiting him for doing the work that I didn't have to do in order to achieve the success I'm going to achieve off of his work? For sure. So it doesn't bother me. And it will also motivate people to do more work and come out with more strains. And actually, we're going to see this, I think, whole palette of cannabis open up as there is, you know, and I hate to say it like it sounds evil, but as there is a financial motivation to do so, people will start to do so.

1:44:43ToddAnd they're going to start looking outside the box. They're going to start looking for higher quality. I think it It's right now it feels like in California at least that it's a race to the bottom with production because right now the producers do not control the market. They're not Apple computers. They can't price fix and say we want a thousand bucks for a MacBook Pro. They can't do it and the pot clubs are driving the prices down which is driving down the quality of production in a lot of ways because the heart and soul that used to go into some of the best bud isn't, it doesn't pay off anymore and sadly that's reflecting In this market.

1:45:19ToddI hope that there's going to be a bounce because once you have legal growth and the race goes to efficiency and productivity and quality, then it's going to be a race to the top again because now the producers are not going to be these outlaw criminals because what sucks in California is that a pot club owner is treated like someone in their community that's respectable where the pot grower is still treated like somebody that's a moonshiner.

1:45:48ToddAnd that's really wrong because the pot club wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the bravery of the person who grew or made the medicine in the first place. It's just that right now, this is why I hate decriminalization because the producer is still an outlaw. The end user is okay, but the person who sold you that pot is going to go to jail if they get caught, and that's just wrong.

1:46:11ToddLegalization gives us regulation all the way down to production, which we as end consumers should demand, because when we go in and buy our bud, there shouldn't be mold on the inside. There should be all the terpenes present. There should be as good of a quality product as could have went into that bag, because the producers were a protected, regulated lot that were doing the best that they could in a legal environment.

1:46:35SpeakerThe only thing I'd say that Todd, when I look at the food industry versus the organic niche industry, the only shift will be in medicine. When you can prove I need this terpene to get this effect and if I don't get it, there's no point in even calling it this strain anymore because I'm reliant on these terpenes I've found. When it comes to commercial pot, no, they're going to prey on everybody who doesn't understand pot, doesn't understand getting high.

1:47:02SpeakerAnd it's going to be the same race to the bottom unless medicine proves quality equals care and money. Because if you can't heal something, eventually you're out of the market. So it has to be a competition for true medicine that works. And that market does exist, but it's unfortunately the recreational market of getting a buzz and tweaking out is there are 20 more 19-year-old girls who just want to get a cheap buzz and try a marijuana than there are people who You know, I can't even say that's true.

1:47:33SpeakerThere are really a hundred people... I don't want to say so much. A hundred people really need medicine, and there are 20 girls that want to fuck around on marijuana. It's just they're not...

1:47:41ToddBut, Horatio, not to be rude, so what? It's better they fuck around on marijuana than go drink a six-pack of beer, you know? I mean, the truth of the matter is, is that... This is wonderful for everybody. When the prices go down enough and people aren't using beer and booze and cigarettes and cheap stuff to get high and they can actually get high off good old Mother Nature like we do, we're very fortunate in a sense that we've broken the law and we found this neutral balancing thing for our body.

1:48:07ToddI wouldn't want to deny it to anybody, so I wouldn't want to speak down to the 20 people that you mentioned, girls or boys, that want to fucking smoke pot instead of do any of the other bullshit. Huff. Smoke tobacco, drink beer, do shots, any of the shit that goes on in a typical college. Because why? It's friggin' legal. I mean, we've got to stop, you know, almost like, you know, shaming them for being like, you just want to use pot to have fun.

1:48:34ToddI am serious. I am sick. You know what? Go fuck your sick. How's that? Why don't you get out of your funk and start exercising and eating right? Maybe you'll be healthy partying with the rest of us when you get out into your pity party. You know, and that's how I feel because I was a really sick kid. And when I see people that want to wallow in their sickness, it makes me want to puke because it's like you should be striving for wellness.

1:48:56ToddWe should all want to be healthy. And really, that is the full... I want to live like Mark. He's got a happy family. He runs around Canada. He shares his experiences with everybody. He's so balanced. It's obnoxious. I love you, Mark, but it's like... Jesus Christmas, you know, from the boats to the bongs to the sitting on the deck. It's all about a balanced lifestyle. And when people start taking that into, like, personal responsibility, it's huge.

1:49:25ToddI mean, one of the things I love about you, Mark, is you're so fucking responsible. Anyone that's traveled with Mark knows... Mark has his shit totally together. He is, he's not imposing on you, but he's a dad. If at any second he needs to bounce, he's ready. He's all, he's a fucking, he's a little boys go. All set, shit's packed, knots are fucking perfect, and I respect that.

1:49:50ToddAnd when more people get tuned into that, into the wellness part of cannabis, and make it like this beautiful frosting on their life, that's when cannabis is really the best. In my opinion, and you know what? I used it to crawl out of cancer, and I know it was a bitch, but I'm happy to be healthy now to a large degree. It helps me with neck pain, but I still want to be like Mark, if that makes sense.

1:50:14BubblemanYou're hilarious, dude.

1:50:15ToddIt's true, though, dude. You're a happy family. You can boat ride. You're on the Harley. It's fucking ridiculous. I love it. We all live vicariously through you. Don't even let me think I'm the only one, dude. Fuck all that shit.

1:50:27BubblemanI'll make sure you do. I'll make sure I make some videos at this camping trip in the next week. We'll do a little dirt bike riding, a little bit of boat riding. I think my friend's bringing a boat that goes 85 miles an hour, so that should be interesting. Dude, I didn't even mention the dirt bikes. And truthfully, that's like my favorite part.

1:50:48ToddNo champ trails. I'm joking. But you know, Horatio, I think that the quality is going to go back up when you see legalization because you're not going to be able to compete with a grow room that's not perfect. And I was talking to Alan Drockers about this, and we think that cannabis flowers that are perfect will cost more gram for gram. Thank you for watching.

1:51:23SpeakerBecause in Canada we do have, for the corporations, they don't have things like plant limits, they just have storage limits. They do have that free-for-all and what I see is the application of the most mundane understanding of nature or of cannabis, but if they could lobby it right, they would destroy every dispensary until we had no access to true medicine and we had to buy what they produced.

1:51:47SpeakerLike in Canada it's set up to be a monopoly that we resist through court. They don't have any intention of understanding what it is. That's why when I say kids that want to grow marijuana, what I mean is naivete to understand what cannabis should be. It's a lot easier to pander to them by the droves than it is to figure out how do I get this plant to actually stop cancer?

1:52:09SpeakerWhat do I got to do? Am I missing a cannabinoid? It just seems that it's easier to make money with the non-serious people than it is to drive an industry that if you're serious you get the best cannabis which is both recreationally and medicinally the best.

1:52:27ToddI want to just say, I love you, but you're being pessimistic, and I think that we haven't seen that happen yet in anywhere. I mean, the quasi-legal industry that's existed in Amsterdam for 40 years, from like the bulldog on, has even been a closed system where it's not really been regulated. It hasn't been taxed only by the front door, not the back door. The producers are still criminals.

1:52:51ToddThe coffee shops can't own greenhouses. It's still a screwy system. We haven't seen, except here in America in the last little minute, in places like Colorado and stuff, have we started to see implementations of professional grows going in to supply an outlet to sell it from. This is unique in a way because even the pot clubs that exist here in California buy pot Thank you for watching.

1:53:46ToddWhy wouldn't they? You know what I mean? Because if you were running an outlet and you were running the production, wouldn't you want that production facility to be as efficient and as perfect as possible so that your end quality product is polished as it could be? I mean, you would be in both positions, Ray, share with what I mean, and then you would be in a third position, which is now you're controlling a subsidiary of your company that actually does your processing, be it water, be it solvent, be it dry sieve.

1:54:15ToddYou're going to have these breakdowns in processing because it's the natural progression of it once you're doing it.

1:54:22SpeakerSo do you think I would become a microbrewery in the end or would I become Coors Light Master Brewer?

1:54:30ToddIt depends. Jack Daniels is on the historical registry as the first registered distillery in America. The thing is the quality of your product, the consistency of your product, your ability to market your product will be what defines yourself against Seagram's. You know what I'm saying? And this is really going to be up to the personalities involved, the help you can get, the way you can manage. This becomes a whole different conversation in all honesty because now, you know, you've got it.

1:54:59ToddAnd we're seeing this in California. Yeah, you can grow pot, but can you run a business? Can you market a business? You know, because now pot growers are realizing, shit, I've got to brand myself. Shit, I've got to think about packaging. Shit, everything has to be perfect. That's not how it used to be, man. It used to be dumping in a bag and, you know, meet a guy in a Kmart parking lot and you were paid and on your way to dinner.

1:55:19ToddAnd it's totally changed now. Now you drop yourself off at a club, they want to have it tested. You've got to wait for the results to come back, then they make an appointment for you to come in and get paid. Dude, this whole thing is like, what the, you know, it's changing rapidly. But it's good for the end users because now the pot clubs can test the stuff and make sure it doesn't have anything that they don't want to sell on it, which is awesome.

1:55:41ToddYou know what I mean? It's inconvenient in a way, but it's good for the end users. And in a way, what I'm talking about, it's all about for the end users. Is it going to benefit the people that get the pot last and have to smoke it? And that's where I'm hoping that legalization does that, because the two things are price down, quality up. And that will happen in a legal environment.

1:56:03ToddThere's no question. The oil industry will be completely in a different situation too. And we have to start now demanding equal rights because all these conservative states are talking about high CBD oil. Where the hell do they think it comes from? People like you that are making oil. They can't outlaw the oil producers if they want to save their kids of their epileptic seizures. This is just the reality of things.

1:56:25ToddSo here in California where we do have a problem with solvent extractions blowing up, But we used to have a problem with grow houses burning down too. We've gotten that under control. And the industry that extracts fragrances from plants and makes perfumes is doing so in a legal environment. And they're never blowing this shit up. It's only because that people are doing this in an unregulated environment are we having problems.

1:56:53ToddAnd if we regulate it, we're not going to have these problems anymore. You're going to see products that come out very good, very clean, very helpful. And literally, in my opinion, treating kids with epilepsy in some cases. Because the CBD, and this is very promising in science. There's no question. You know, that Jason and Jaden clip from our movie The Culture High has been shared over 17 million times in the past six months.

1:57:22ToddThat's awesome. Insane, dude. People want to know what's up, you know, and

1:57:31ToddI think this medium right here is what's helping it. A lot of reasons why I wanted to get on this and do this with you is just because it's like we used to have rallies so we could spread the word. It's like a rally every Sunday with you. We get to talk about cannabis and share our ideas.

1:57:46SpeakerIt's awesome. I wish some people would do it.

1:57:51BubblemanI definitely appreciate you guys coming in and spending your time with me. I'm definitely... Two minutes away from calling it a day, so I'm going to take one more dab of this sweet skunk rosin. Actually, no, I'll finish it off with Horatio's eighth wonder. Some eighth wonder. Very nice, Horatio. Definitely got that rich, deep, herpy ridiculousness. And nice consistency, too. Pretty sappy. Oh, my goodness.

1:58:24SpeakerWow. It'll do that to you when it's got those live terpenes on it. They're quite volatile.

1:58:34BubblemanOh, it looks pretty good. That's for sure. Sappy goodness. I'm not going to say no to that. Yeah, I'm certainly not going to take that huge dab though and then go try to pack myself up for camping.

1:58:52BubblemanAm I going to release the new D-Nail Rosin Press video? Yes. You know what? This video is a nightmare. I edited it once and then something happened. And then I re-edited it another entire time. And when I was done and I went to export it at a final cut, it would not let me export the movie at all. So then I edited it a third time from start in iMovie and I managed to get that shared.

1:59:19BubblemanAnd then Hash Church was starting. So after the second I get off here, I will update the D-Nail Press video. It's about an hour long. It's definitely long. And I press flowers and I press hash as well. So it definitely will be fun to show the unit in use and have a video for it on its own. But yeah, last dab for the Hash Church. And then we're going to call it a day.

1:59:44BubblemanThanks Horatio, Todd, and Tony for sticking it out. And we'll see you guys next week.

2:00:04BubblemanFinishing it off with that eighth wonder. Thanks for watching, everybody. See you next week.