Cannabis, Belief Systems, and Legalization Challenges

0:02BubblemanWelcome to Hash Church episode 44. Welcome, welcome and welcome. Happy to have you guys here. Let me get over to the YouTube channel because it's going to go live soon and I'll turn off that microphone or that speaker so it doesn't go all loud on us. Send out my emails real quick as well as the messages, private messages through Facebook. Well, here we are. Here we are, everybody.

0:30BubblemanWelcome, welcome and more welcome. Simple message today, Jah Provide. Try to deny it, but it's going to be a hard one. Whatever your belief system is, Jah does not have to be any particular one thing. It can be the thing for you that is that thing, that belief, that system of representation. So I wore this shirt today because Jah seems to always provide regardless of what your belief system is.

1:01BubblemanExcited for episode 44 today. I'm going to do it up, see what Todd's saying. Oh, Todd says he's just about to jump in the shower. All right, buddy. I accept that. Get all nice and clean for us. We're going to have a nice little hash church today. Let's see what we got going on. Maybe a bowl. Hey, morning, Marcus. Morning, Prophet. Morning, J-Dog and Steve O'Byrne, Rastafari, Jacob, Otis Punk, 70s Mama.

1:30BubblemanChris Rossi, McGrow, Medicaid. Hello to all of you guys and much appreciation for all of you guys popping in here so early, 9.01 a.m. And we got 60 plus people in the room. I think that deserves a rip. I don't think it'll be very long before we have 400 people in the room. Tell them. Yes, yes. Well, you know, the reason I brought up the shirt and the reason I brought up belief system and the reason I brought up the job provide in particular is because recently I had someone attacking me because I set my denail to the number 666.

2:09BubblemanNow, the reason I set my denail to the number 666, funny enough, It's because I was getting everything ready, and as I do these videos, I understand that it's always the smallest little thing that I don't pay attention to that sometimes hijacks the attention of the post or the thread, what I'm trying to do. And so the other day when I was setting up my video to show this, the doghouse from B-Nail.

2:37BubblemanOh, and welcome, everyone. Welcome, Chris and Etienne and Nick, just sort of blabbering on here about... About being attacked on my YouTube channel for actually posting the letters 666 on my D-nail, the numbers. That's the time I set it for. I did it as such a fluke because you know what I did? I went to set it and I thought, oh, if I set it too high, they'll bitch at me for hot temp and I don't want to set it too low.

3:04BubblemanAnd literally I just set that number as kind of a, almost like a little hook to put out there to see who would jump on it. Wow, holy shit, I'll tell you. Isn't it an interesting number that can cause such a reaction in people? And let me tell you, it wasn't mostly a positive reaction.

3:21Etienne FontanWell, one, it was an incorrect reaction because if they knew their numerology or their theology, they would realize that it was reclassified recently due to a numerology fault that it's not 666, it's 616. So...

3:36Etienne FontanThey have already failed in their understanding and knowledge of theology, so you've got to take it with a grain of salt. So, you know, people and their mythologies, they get very protective of them. But regardless, don't put your theology on me. You know what I'm saying?

3:57BubblemanYeah, I know exactly what you're saying. How's it going there, Chris? Thanks for joining us this morning. Good, good, yeah, for sure. Well, I don't know.

4:03SpeakerThere's Mr. Theology right there, right? Yeah, for sure. Well, the whole thing with 666, Number of the Beast, it's like the Book of Revelation. And basically, fundamentalist Christians see that as the final slaughter of all the sinners out there. So it's not something I'm buying into. So I'm not too worried about any sort of numerology there.

4:31BubblemanYeah, I hear that. I'm a little worried about the Christian evangelists like Stephen Harper, you know?

4:37SpeakerYeah, Bush. The book of Revelation is basically fundamentalist Christians. See, that is the final slaughter of all the sinners out there. Hey, that's trippy. It's not something I'm buying into. You've got to be worried about any sort of numerology there.

4:56BubblemanIs that coming through on the YouTube channel?

5:00Etienne FontanI'm hearing it through you. I turned my YouTube down because I get that feedback otherwise in the delay, so.

5:07SpeakerHow about now? Am I here? Can you hear me now? No, nothing?

5:12Etienne FontanClear. Lima Charlie. I guess I disappeared. Nope, can hear you fine. Marcus, you still there?

5:21BubblemanYes, I just muted my mic while trying to figure out what the technical difficulty was and I think we got it all sorted out. Excellent. Basically, Jesus does not want us talking about 666. Who's Jesus? What's a Jesus? What's a Jesus? It's what I say when I stub my toe, apparently. I don't know.

5:45Etienne FontanIsn't that funny? Even for us, I mean, I've studied theology because I grew up, I went to Catholic school, so I've studied all religions. Even when I was in Saudi Arabia, I studied the Koran. It's just, theology has always fascinated me. And It's always fascinating what people choose to attack one for in one's religion. Sociologically, I've always found fascinating from different religion to different religion. But it's always still don't speak negative of our creator, no matter what letters we give them.

6:16Etienne FontanSo I respect it, I understand it, but I don't follow it in any way, shape, or form.

6:21BubblemanI think Terrence McKenna said it best when he said, belief system is truly the anchor of mankind. And if you look into how he said it and what he was talking about, it's not obviously having a belief system is somewhat important. It would be pretty hard not to have one and to operate in a day-to-day life without a belief system. I'm not sure how one would go about doing it.

6:45BubblemanBut there definitely are dangerous paths to go down with belief system, particularly if you're openly practicing cognitive dissonance along with your belief system. That's a whole potential...

7:02SpeakerLong bad road to head down. You know, I think there's more spiritual and healing power in a single marijuana plant than there is in all the religious texts of the whole wide world.

7:14Etienne FontanWell, at least that can be proven.

7:16BubblemanAnd what a great quote that is. As you were saying it, I can see people repeating it on the computer for the next several weeks. Release the memes. Release the memes. Actually, Hash Church has been inspiring many memes lately. It's been pretty funny. Todd had a great one. When Todd speaks and then there's a whole audience standing up clapping, that was awesome.

7:42Etienne FontanI still love the one I met, meaning Todd McCormick at Chalice.

7:46BubblemanRight. Yeah, very funny. Good. Good that people are getting excited and... I agree 100%. Sometimes when Todd just fucking gets into it and goes off on a really beautiful rant, who's not going to enjoy such a thing when spoken with such passion? I think that's the real thing that people are trying to access right now. It's the information fueled by a passion. Because when information is fueled by anything other than passion, it just doesn't come across to me as genuine.

8:22Etienne FontanAlong with a deep understanding, Todd has a great depth of understanding of this, and he's also sacrificed his own blood, sweat, and tears along the way, so you can definitely hear it, and it comes out through his voice as well as all through his actions. He's a man of integrity who, like many of us here, when we say something, we do it. We don't just say it to hear ourselves speak.

8:44Etienne FontanThere's usually a bit of integrity and worth behind everything we do.

8:49BubblemanWell, you said it, Etienne, when you said you can hear it in his voice. Todd's passion, when he's the most passionate, he goes Rhode Island. And that's when you know he's talking about something that he's really like. And you can hear it come out in his voice every once in a while. And I've had a few people mention it in the last couple of weeks. I love when Rhode Island comes out in Todd's voice.

9:14BubblemanIt's fucking awesome.

9:17Etienne FontanSo what's everybody popping on this morning?

9:23Etienne FontanOh, you little dog.

9:24BubblemanI've injected four marijuanas today.

9:31Etienne FontanI saw that. They found those syringes up there up in Canada, and they're wondering if people are injecting the marijuanas now. Is that what I'm hearing?

9:42BubblemanI don't know. I saw it as a news story. Is that what it was? Straight to the brain. Straight to the brain?

9:51BubblemanIt's kind of scary that misinformation is so easily applied in the media.

9:58SpeakerAbsolutely. Like, you know, when they were reporting all those deaths in Colorado from pot, you know, huge numbers, and anti-prohibitionists were actually taking it as an actual fact, and it was from, like, some satire site, you know, and they're quoting some satire site.

10:15BubblemanYeah, I saw, I think it was DARE. DARE was, or some type of really, like, prohibition-based group. Was posting that link like every other day. Yeah. And then they actually had to apologize for putting out disinformation, which is hilarious because that's pretty much what they specialize in.

10:37BubblemanKind of blew my mind.

10:38SpeakerYeah, well, you know, unfortunately it's effective. Pot's still illegal most of the world, you know. Yeah.

10:46BubblemanYeah, you know, and it just doesn't seem to be moving ahead at quite the... What happened to the exponential growth of a movement? What happened to that sort of like, oh, they can't stop it now? It seems like they just shunt the ball from rolling every like three weeks. They've just got these new shunts in place that are like, oh, oh, we're going to need more pushing up here.

11:09BubblemanPush, push. I don't know. I felt like things were moving forward at a pretty good rate there for a while, and now it seems like everything's gone back into the 240 frames per second.

11:21SpeakerWell, here in Canada anyways. Except for Vancouver.

11:26BubblemanYeah. That's where I'm from and where I'm at, and I feel that as well, dude. Did you speak at the event the other day at the Simon Fraser University?

11:35SpeakerI did, yeah. I was on a panel of Cannabis Creatures. That was a great event. I was sold out. Mostly middle-aged people, not people I recognize, so not your typical pot crowd. Nice. 15 medical pot clubs there selling baked goods right at Simon Fraser University, you know, in the lobby there. So, you know, times are changing, you know, definitely here in Vancouver there's a real positive attitude around cannabis for the most part, except for maybe Pam McCall.

12:04BubblemanOh, can you give us just a little sort of breakdown on what went down other than what you've said so far, like maybe a little bit about the panels and what was discussed?

12:15SpeakerIt was a lot of local heroes, I guess, you know. We had panelists like Mark Emery, Jody Emery, Kirk Tussauds, Dana Larson on the laws moving forward panel. We had a great medical panel with people from the different compassion clubs, Bill Lucas from Tilray, which some people found kind of controversial, a former medical club president or founder who is now with the Tilray and their $17 million commercial corporate role over in Nanaimo.

12:52BubblemanI always felt good about that myself, knowing who Philippe was and knowing him from back in the day. I thought like, well, shit, like someone like him or Hillary, those people that were those, you know, involved from day one. I mean, I'm not saying that it's not easily, that you could easily be corrupted, but I don't know. I think that we need good people in those places.

13:15SpeakerWell, I like Bill, but I heard a lot of people... Not so happy with the situation, you know, wanting to ask questions like, well, how does he feel about patients growing their own medicine in light of, you know, like that's, you know, basically these commercial grows. Dispensaries and people growing their own medicine is probably the biggest threat that they face to their businesses, you know, and I don't know what kind of money it takes to pay back a $17 million growing operation, but, you know, it's like, you know, 30 million people in all of Canada.

13:51SpeakerHalf of them are using cannabis. So it's a lot of money to invest. And they were planning when they were opening it, the word was that they were going to shut down all that stuff. So they were expecting to be the sole suppliers of medical cannabis, right? And so it's a real challenge for these companies to stay open in a Country where there's medical clubs getting cannabis off of not them, you know, not through them.

14:24SpeakerI don't want to, you know, it's obviously coming in what would be considered by the government illegally. I'm fine with anybody growing it. But yeah, it's a real threat. So they're, you know, they're not industries that can really stand together, you know, the industry and the current situation. I don't see how they can be on the same page, really, myself.

14:45BubblemanI see it myself. I see it with a small alteration, and I've said it a few times. I see it as that job made enough for everyone, that the medical world, the medical market, I guess as they call it, which is a terrible two words to put together, like terrible fucking two words to put together. It even felt bad coming out of my mouth. That is much, much, much, much bigger than they realize because they don't understand preventative and they still don't accept recreation.

15:14BubblemanAnd with recreation, medical, and preventative, you have this monster beast that I can guarantee you that the LPs will never take care of and that the dispensaries will never take care of. I suggest a tertiary type of license. Give LPs their license. Give anyone in Canada who wants to grow cannabis a license because guess what? Thank you for watching.

15:51BubblemanThank you so much.

16:19BubblemanBecause they have that high dollar investment and because they're growing cannabis on a pharmaceutical level, that's so different from growing cannabis on a dispensary level. The amount of standards that are put into place Can be exponential from one to another. I personally suggest a third type of license. Let anyone in Canada who wants to grow, grow, but not for profit. Not to flood the market with low standards and cannabis to anyone who wants to buy it.

16:52BubblemanNo fucking way. You have a license just to grow for yourself. There, perfect. Guess what? Not as many people are going to do it as you think. Then you give a license to the LPs who want to grow and sell cannabis and now the third type of license. The license of all the people that were over here growing under an MMAR license while really flooding the market with cannabis, let them Adhere to a higher standard, maybe not the multi-million dollar pharmaceutical standard, but maybe something along the lines of a nutraceutical standard.

17:23BubblemanThey're quite different. They exist already and we know their differences. And allow them a license for profit to grow cannabis because they're like, oh, I can grow such great cannabis. Okay, great. Grow great cannabis. 50 lights, 25 lights, 250 lights, and then have the option to sell it to licensed dispensaries or To even LPs, if you want to sell it to them. You know, like you'd literally have a marketplace.

17:48BubblemanI think that that would be really fucking good. And I know that it could be torn apart, oh this, that, and the other thing. I'm just thinking in a utopian world, if the LPs actually fucking got behind the dispensary model and supported them in public. And said, listen, of course they need to exist. That's on a street level. That's like we only are allowed to deliver through the mail.

18:11BubblemanSome people can't go five days without their medicine. It can't happen.

18:17SpeakerWell, you know, I think it could work, but, you know, the current regime and the way it's set up is made for that definitely not to work. You know, the way you're laying it out there, there's just no way that under the current setup and regulations and laws that any of that's going to work. So that's unfortunate. So it's, you know, the way it's written, it's pitted the LPs against the dispensaries and people growing their own medicine.

18:42SpeakerAnd, you know, so lots of those dispensaries, you know, it's hard for them. It looks bad for them if they are attacking them, for one thing, you know what I mean? But I'm sure they're lobbying the government and stuff like that to enforce the existing laws and the existing regime, you know, because they dumped millions of dollars into it, you know?

19:02BubblemanYeah, but I don't think it has to be split up like that. I think that's the game that the government is playing, the old divide and conquer, and it's like, I'm constantly trying to tell people, look, like, these LPs exist, have an influence on them, have an influence on the dispensaries, and now, I mean, there's too many people we know growing under MMAR to sell to dispensaries, and there's no standards in place, bro.

19:29BubblemanCan I ask a question? How much... How much are you allowed on the show?

19:34Etienne FontanSorry? If you're licensed, how much are you allowed to grow in Canada if you receive a license? I don't really know the standards.

19:41BubblemanI'm talking about a federal... Are you talking about a federal licensed producer, MMPR, which is the new regime, only big companies are allowed to have licenses, or the old regime, which I'm under, which is called the MMAR, and that's where personal people are allowed to grow and process and possess their own cannabis, because those are different.

20:11Etienne FontanI was more asking under the old regime, I guess, under individual growers like yourself, not the industrialization. Because I know the industrial scale is one thing. But what were you allowed to maximize in production?

20:24BubblemanI'm allowed to store almost 5,000 grams at my grow, which is close to, well, it's just shy of 10 pounds. It's 4,600 grams I'm allowed to have, 4,700 or something. And I'm allowed to grow 99 plants. I'm allowed to, I used to be allowed to carry with me 600 grams of my product anywhere I went out in the world, but I was allowed to have 10 pounds of it at home.

20:50BubblemanThis was under the old regime for a 20 gram a day license. Now some people, oh man, what was the biggest license you heard of, Horatio? Welcome, by the way.

21:02Speaker$800. Plants by being a designated producer for three people.

21:10BubblemanWhat's the most you've heard per gram per day? Someone getting, like, because I'm a 20 gram. I've heard of 40 grams. I've heard of 60 gram a day.

21:21SpeakerI have 30 grams. I've heard of 150 grams being like the most, like, yeah, my back, my head, my ankle, my headache, my everything, and here's $5,000 for a prescription. Yeah, that's what I've heard.

21:37BubblemanYeah, doctors were doing well there for a while. They were just, they were just, there was companies. Tickets.

21:45SpeakerRight, and tickets, yeah, they were. Tickets, I said, it's like a golden ticket when it first started, you know, getting a license or something like that, you know, it was like a golden ticket just because some of the amounts you could grow were so huge.

22:01BubblemanYeah, completely insane. It sure changed the whole price of cannabis in the country across the board like in a hurry when that many people started growing cannabis. And that's why people think that there's this, oh, they saturated it. Well, no. What happened along with that extreme amount of cannabis was an education of what great cannabis was and what great cannabis wasn't. And more and more people now know that that shit is not good shit and so it sits 150 pounds over here, 1500 pounds over there, 400 pounds over here and it just goes on and on and on and on because what will happen, and this is in any marketplace where you allow people to come to the table, Is that the people who can't produce what they say they're going to produce will fall by the wayside because only those who can put their money where their mouth is and actually produce those full melt resin heads.

22:58BubblemanI mean, that's what the world deserves, competition. The more people involved, the more likely you are to get someone who gets involved who does it better than everyone else. It's just a guarantee. Mark, you need to go ban someone. What's that, ATN?

23:18Etienne FontanYou need to go ban someone in chat. Bob Saget Clone is going nuts.

23:22BubblemanOh, Bob Saget Clone has to go?

23:24Etienne FontanNazi propaganda, et cetera, et cetera.

23:29BubblemanNazi propaganda. Okay, in this day and age, have you never taken a psychedelic and not realized that skin is just like an organ? It would be like literally hating someone because their liver was different than yours. Like, it's so fucking ridiculous. I just can't even accept it. I am trying to get into the chat, but unfortunately all my shit is frozen to frozen to frozen. Gonna have to make someone else.

23:56BubblemanDifficult. Internet. Yes. Yes, the internet. Alright, well, you guys chat away for the next ten minutes trying to get Bob Saget clone out of the chat.

24:12SpeakerWell, marijuana makes you colorblind, you know. That was one of the big things that they were saying in the 30s and the jazzies, blacks and whites mixing together and smoking the reefers. So I think if anybody was pro-pot, they would put all that racism right behind them.

24:27Etienne FontanYou know, one of the things I saw, I was speaking at Hash Bash, I think it was in 99 in Michigan, and I watched this Nazi skinhead in his gear, In the row, standing right next to a dreadlocked Rasta, and them pass the joint to each other. And it was just one of those little beautiful revelations to me that cannabis crosses every socioeconomic boundary. And there it was, even before me, two people that diametrically hate each other would still pass the joint to each other.

25:02Etienne FontanI thought that was pretty awesome.

25:05SpeakerWell, Charles said that it was pot that got him out of his racist roots. Who said that? Charles Scott. Oh, wow, really, eh? Yeah, he said he was, you know, like, he was raised racist, right? The racist father and stuff, and so when he got into pot growing and hanging around with pot growers, that they started questioning his racism and talking to him about it, and he was able to see his way out of it, he said.

25:31BubblemanWell, we know that cannabis can definitely, you know, it is the enemy of hate, right? And I say that, I think of, once again, I think of one of my great mentors, Ron Hickey, my good buddy from back in Winnipeg, who's just got to be one of the craziest guys I've ever known in a great way. He spent 11 years in a federal penitentiary for cannabis crimes, unfortunately, two separate times.

25:56BubblemanThe second time actually getting herb for a woman who was pretending to have cancer, So she could get her double axe murderer husband some yard time, which Ron ended up doing a bunch of time with when he got sentenced to supplying this woman with cannabis. But he did a lot of work in prison, in Stony Mountain Penitentiary, with ganja, with just spliffs, just by having access to it and making sure that the right people smoked it at the right time, which usually meant someone who had a beef with another guy and was getting ready to build himself a little shank so he could take him out at the mess hall or whatever.

26:36BubblemanAnd Ron did that time and time and time again. Probably saving so much violence and so many deaths that even when he left, from what he told me, that some of the guards were like, we're going to miss you, Ron. You kept things on the down low. If only they realized the importance of cannabis in places like prison.

27:03SpeakerPlaces like everywhere. If only I had smoked pot in prison, geez, it would have changed my experience. I was going to say, it's pretty important.

27:13BubblemanThey bring it in the hard way. Mark Emery claimed that he did not smoke cannabis the entire time he was in prison.

27:21SpeakerAnd I claimed I smoked cannabis almost the entire time I was in prison. How weird is that?

27:26BubblemanI would not even have to claim. I think if I went to prison, people would just assume it.

27:30SpeakerWell, I have people giving me a hard time being like, you know, how come you're in there smoking pot, Todd? And I'm like, excuse me, I'm in a very stressful environment. You're not even in prison and you're smoking pot. What's your reason? You're out there in the free world and you need a joint? You don't think I need a joint in jail? Holy shit. Never I needed a joint.

27:48SpeakerIt was in jail.

27:50BubblemanA joint and access to like a pet or animals.

27:56SpeakerFreedom would have been better than a pet or an animal, but that's cool too.

28:01BubblemanFreedom's top of the list. I'm just thinking for the people that are literally, hey, what do you think of this new prison reform that Obama's spitting out? I guess he was the first president to ever visit a federal penitentiary.

28:14SpeakerYeah, you know, it's becoming very unpopular for what they're doing to continue. And I think that realiztically, there has to be a dialogue shift, you know, and unfortunately that, you know, the deposition of Cosby came out right at the same friggin time. So of course, You know, prison reform got like, you know, that's 11 on the story list of 1 through 10. You know, and Cosby was 1 through 5, which just killed us.

28:39SpeakerAnd I think it's an important argument that I wish he would make a lot stronger because, you know, the disparity between minorities, you know, blacks and whites in prison is not just alarming, it is devastating. It's reminisced to slavery in the way that it's such a double standard for whites and blacks in this country. And, I mean, for me, that going to prison was a huge Awakening for me because I grew up in New England where racism, one could say, is long past.

29:12SpeakerI grew up not really realizing people were racist until I went to the South and realized, oh shit, this is more than just on TV. These people really do think like this. It kind of blew my mind. But when you go to prison, the prison is separated into whites, blacks, and Mexicans. And I got in trouble for going into what is a lunchroom with Ricky Ross, the drug dealer that I've had on the show here.

29:35SpeakerBecause me and Ricky were friends, and if I walked into the chow hall with a black guy, I would sit down with a black guy. I wouldn't really get there and separate when we got our trays because we were slightly different colors. The staff freaked out about it. You know, Ricky saw the warden staring at us once and said he didn't think they liked us desegregating their lunch counter.

29:57SpeakerAnd he was joking, but I think he was deathly true because, you know, this is how they keep us separated. And if we were to be a whole, even in society, it's much more difficult to control. So in prison, they still practiced, if you will, you know, bureaucratic racism, and they encourage it. Because from the guard keeper's perspective, it keeps people against each other. They enforce it.

30:24SpeakerThey don't encourage it. They enforce it. It's true. I actually got attacked, guys, when I was in Victorville for hanging out with blacks, smoking weed with blacks, playing chess with blacks. The white guy stepped to me and told me I couldn't do that, which point I was like, guys, you do realize I'm not so good with that. You know, people over me, you know, the whole reason I'm here is because I don't really do what I'm told.

30:44SpeakerSo they stepped at me like three times before they told me, you know, that shit would happen, and shit happens, but it wasn't that big a deal. I got shipped to yet another prison. But, you know, institutional racism is fucked up, and I think humans have to do everything they can to fight it, you know what I mean? People are people are people.

31:03BubblemanAbsolutely. Well, I don't really have a huge opinion on Obama either way, but I was really surprised at what he said in that forum, just how he was talking about basically, you know, if you do a crime or whatever, sure, you might have to pay something back to society, but not 20 years or 10 years. I was like, man, why has someone not said this?

31:28SpeakerAbsolutely. Because they're all such paid shrills for the fucking... I mean, you know, in the Culture High, we really talk about how there was a convergence of special interests post-World War II. And, you know, it's really hard for me not to point out the military-industrial complex as being a huge part of the problem in this puzzle that we're in because... You know, they stood to profit a lot, so much so that in the past 60, 70 years, we've seen private prisons, you know, pop up, where we didn't have private prisons in America before.

32:00SpeakerYou know, and even like we, you know, say in the Culture High, you know, private prisons are fucking scary, people. You know, when they're going to lock you up for profit, and when states are entering in a contract that actually stipulate that there'll be so many bodies, regardless of what the frig goes on in society, Thank you for joining us.

32:34SpeakerI fucking felt bad for them because I met really nothing but assholes in prison. It was, you know, 80% of the people way deserved to be there. If not 80%, more than 80%. It wasn't a whole lot of idealistic pot activists in prison. It was bank robbers and murderers and people I would never be around. And those prison guards don't want to be around them either. So they would much rather have to watch someone like Mark or Todd or someone who's going to be cool and polite and not aggressive.

33:03SpeakerThen to have to watch somebody that might, you know, take what he says wrong and grab him by the throat. And truthfully, this is motivating a huge amount of the population in these prisons because they're really, now we have in like California, the California Prison Guards Union, who is lobbying against legalization in California of marijuana because why? Marijuana fills up prisons and they want to fill up prisons.

33:28SpeakerThat's their monetary motivation. I don't give a shit about what's right or wrong.

33:32BubblemanHey, I'll tell you how ridiculous it is, Todd. A friend of mine got caught up in Deer Creek, Indiana, an infamous venue where they do the go free for three, which means catch an innocent fucking kid with some acid or some ecstasy or some whatever. I don't think pot was as substantial. I think they wanted it to be acid or ecstasy because they had a higher mandatory minimum.

33:56BubblemanAnd then you would have to get three people to do the same thing. Well, my friend got caught up in that. And how he got caught up in it was the person had a ticket to get into the show. It was at a fish show. And he would only trade ecstasy. And my friend didn't have ecstasy, but he was like, I'll go find you some ecstasy. So he went and found a couple of ecstasy pills.

34:15BubblemanAnd he came back and gave the guy. And boom, he was in the van. And they were giving him the go free for three thing. And he was like, no. So he ended up getting some months, maybe like a couple years. But this is the crazy thing about how fucking insane this is. He found out later that the judge and the prosecutor had a stake in the private prison that they were both involved with filling.

34:37BubblemanAnd it got so ridiculous that after he got off and let go home from Indiana to go back to the West Coast... Months later, they sent him a mail saying that he actually had more time to do and he went back and did like another 40 or 50 days in their prison because it's all money in the bank to them. There's like money that gets paid to them to have people in their prisons.

35:04SpeakerYou know, Mark Emery, when he went to prison, he was initially in a foreign prison, you know, not with American citizens, with a lot of foreigners, and so it was like There's like maybe three other people that spoke English fluently out of a hundred odd people there. They're all in one big room, you know what I mean, sleeping on bunks and stuff. And Mark started, like some of these guys, they were supposed to be getting out.

35:28SpeakerThey just weren't able to read the paperwork that they were getting. They didn't have lawyers and stuff like that. And Mark started like helping them with the paperwork and getting some of these guys out. Because it's a private prison, and it's their bottom line, keeping those people in jail for as long as possible, this did not go down well with the prison warden and stuff. And that was one of the reasons why Mark got taken out of the foreigner prison and put in with the Americans, where he could do less harm helping people that were in the private prison get out and hurt their bottom line, you know?

36:00Etienne FontanTotally. Chris, is that like one angel on one side, a devil on the other on your shoulders?

36:07SpeakerYeah, there you go. Well, you're perfect, man. Bitey and scratchy. The body language on the two animals are great. You got one that looks like he's going to pounce around your head, and the other one is leaning away. He trusts you butt. Yeah. That's a big cat, too. That's not small. It's a tenuous arrangement. I think you pissed the cat off. Can't talk about cats, man. They now.

36:40SpeakerAbsolutely. How you been, Chris? I've been good, man. Yeah, things are good. You know, plugging away here in Canada, watching things shift and change, and yeah, life's good.

36:51RickHow about you, Todd?

36:53SpeakerYou know, we just got word. Say that again? Your conference go off that you're organizing yet, or when's that? Oh, we did that shit a year ago in August. That was Rhode Island Convention Center last August. Yeah, we rented the Rhode Island Convention Center for three days. Yeah, it's been a while since we talked, for sure. Yeah. That went off really well. And, you know, I've still talked to you since then, I thought, though.

37:20SpeakerBut the culture high is now in 70 countries and 15 languages on Netflix. That was kind of cool. That's nice. As of March 1st.

37:31BubblemanPut it on YouTube.

37:34SpeakerWell, you can't. You don't put it on YouTube because, you know, YouTube, there's clips on YouTube. Our clip with Jason and Jaden has been actually viewed over 17 million times.

37:45BubblemanThat's where you get the full exposure. For instance, I'm not even, I could never compare anything that I do to the Culture High, but Bubble Man's world is viewed in 208 countries.

37:56SpeakerRight. You know, the thing is, though, is you can't, you know, the Culture High was a real movie, you know. YouTube is a little different. When you raise over half a million, you know, $700,000, you can't go give away the product for free. So our first, our first outlet was actually iTunes. You make your money. And now we're on Netflix too. And, you know, in time, you know, we've never stopped or been able to control or even try to the amount of people that pirate our films.

38:22SpeakerYou know, it's really what made the union so successful was people just simply sharing it. And we encourage it, to be blunt. You know, we will never go after anybody who's ever downloaded our film. It's never going to happen. But...

38:35BubblemanLook at Pretty Lights though. That guy put out, I think it was in 2013, he put out every bit of music that he had onto a BitTorrent. He personally uploaded it and put it out, and it was the most downloaded BitTorrent of that year. The amount of people that were exposed to his music was just some... Insane amount of people. And then right after that, he would like sell out these big venues.

38:59BubblemanEverywhere he went and played, it was just like his popularity was so popular. Not because a label put millions of dollars into him, but because he put his shit on the internet for free. And I'm going to tell you, it cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars to studio and cut and edit and do all that work.

39:20SpeakerYou know, it's interesting. I was having a conversation a few months back with Lars of Metallica, and I asked him if he felt like his music was now just an advertisement to get people to come to his shows. And he looked at me and went, you know, honestly, I never really thought about it until you just said it like that. But kind of, yeah. Because, you know, now what have they got?

39:37SpeakerI mean, everybody steals your music. You put it on the internet, and, you know, everyone can hear and access it any time. So the only place they're going to make money is in sales for tickets and merchandise. That's it.

39:49BubblemanYou have the core. Then serious money at that.

39:53SpeakerWell, Dave Matthews did really well with it, but a lot of bands couldn't. Some bands really mastered making money in this new paradigm. They allowed taping. The Dead was one of the first. Come tape our shows, trade it, we don't care. It made them popular. Not to be rude, but their studio albums were kind of weak.

40:12BubblemanThey were coming from a place of that radical openness. They were all dropping acid. They were all like, I don't think anyone had a vibe like they were like, this is ours and we have to protect it from everyone. It just doesn't seem like it was the vibe of,

40:27SpeakerNo, and I would argue that they were one of the first people that experienced like a social networking with their music because they're one of the first bands that really embraced people giving away their music, trading their music, and also, you know, they were a highly technical band the whole time, which is really kind of cool. So they were geeks. They were, you know, gadget gear geeks as well, and look what it did for their popularity.

40:51SpeakerI mean, 50 years later, they just fucking, you know, sold out, you know, five shows. Yeah, I don't think that trade in music is a bad thing, you know, so I think in that sense the internet's a good thing, it's just that musicians are going to have to work for their money. Absolutely. The days of releasing an album and, you know, being Beatles rich are probably over.

41:11BubblemanOr it's doing different things because, you know, the internet also, sure, it made it so you could Take people's music as you call it, but it also made it for people like, here's a guy that everyone fucking hates, Justin Bieber. It's popular to hate the guy. Yet no studio built him. He was built by putting videos up on YouTube and then people just fucking loved the guy.

41:33SpeakerI don't like his music, but I truly appreciate that kid's self-story. Oh my God, dude. It's unbelievable. He turned himself from a poor kid into one of the most famous musicians in the world. I couldn't tell you one of his songs, but I admire somebody's perseverance and ability to think outside of the box and to write his own check, pave his own road.

41:56BubblemanI'll tell you, that's one guy that can definitely say, hey listen, YouTube is available to everyone. I had nothing more available to me other than my talent and this platform, YouTube. So in a sense, YouTube offers every single person out there that ability to become, like you said, Beatles rich. You just never fucking know.

42:20SpeakerYou know, I remember before YouTube, Pot TV, it was costing Mark, I think, like, at the peak, about $16,000 a month just to stream video on Pot TV, you know what I mean? And now, you could do 10 times that for free on YouTube, you know? So, it was like, that's where a lot of the money was going, is production and streaming costs were just outrageous, and it's really changed the way people can spread information and access information, and, you know, it's a great tool for sure.

42:49BubblemanIt sure is, well, fuck, we're on it right now.

42:53SpeakerWe are on it right now, Mark. Yeah, that's funny. It's just, you know, the way we did the film, it wasn't the ideal outlet for the film, in all honesty.

43:02BubblemanNo, no, no, no. And I hear totally, like, you know, making the money off of it and getting paid back for the exposure, but truly the exposure to that film and that knowledge at one point in time should definitely be uploaded. Buy those people. Just put it up there, man. Get it on YouTube. I bet you that thing, first of all, monetizes as much money as they made selling it.

43:32SpeakerThat would take a while.

43:36BubblemanYou have one clip that has 17 million views. If you get sponsored, if you work up a deal with a company, you can easily get $2,000 to $3,000 per million hits. So you put the whole movie up into the best clips, then you put the whole movie up as... The whole movie.

43:56SpeakerAnd I'm telling you. When you're trying to raise three quarters of a million dollars, YouTube isn't going to gamble with you that your potential future clips might get 16, 17 million views. They're not going to give you the production money. So when you do a film like this, you know, we entered into a deal with Phase 4 Films. They put up, you know, six figures. And, you know, it's from people like that that gives us the ability to go out and make a movie.

44:20SpeakerYou know, I mean, and You know, YouTube's great, but, you know, we're sitting here on our webcams, and, you know, that's not exactly the quality of... YouTube is the largest advertising dollar, the person that brings in advertising dollars on the planet right now.

44:36BubblemanThey do $14 billion in advertising a month.

44:41SpeakerLook at that, bro. Right, but they won't give us money to make a movie, Mark, is my point.

44:45BubblemanNo, what they will do is once you have that money, you see, it's one of those things where you can't sell out that. I tell musicians all the time, listen, don't sell your ability to use your own social media out to some label that's promising you money. Those days are going to be done. We don't need those people anymore. They're only offering the money because they offer distribution.

45:06BubblemanWell, guess what? YouTube blows you away. Well, kinda. You know, the thing is this though. Oh, completely. Like 100%.

45:14SpeakerLet me say it like this. You couldn't have made that film without any money. So, after distributors, and you know what, we're not going to go with any of these, like, basically, we're not going to have a film. There's no film without money, so the film doesn't come, you're putting the horse before the cart, in a sense, in traditional ways, but you're trying to put the cart before the horse.

45:37SpeakerYou're trying to say, you make the film with nothing, and then you put it on YouTube.

45:41BubblemanRight, okay, but here's the thing, you're going to a studio, you're going to a studio to get this made. What if the shift... No, no, we didn't go to a studio.

45:50Etienne FontanNo, no, no, no, no.

45:52SpeakerLet me put it like this. You need the money. We had 43 interviews. We spent a lot of time going around and it cost money. If we go on YouTube and it was old school style, you and me with camcorders... That doesn't have to be old school style. That's what we used to do. You know, I mean, the Culture High and the Union were literally like a graduation out of when you used to see me...

46:13SpeakerRemember what you always saw me carrying around? A video camera in the 90s.

46:17BubblemanRight. Must have some good old footage.

46:21Archive SeedsI haven't even had time to look at that old footage.

46:25BubblemanThat model will shift is all I'm saying. And that those people that you had meetings with, they probably weren't people like Devin Supertramp who gets paid several million dollars annually from his views on YouTube. And there's many of these crazy bastards that are making millions of dollars. And when they start investing in projects and say, guess what? How we're going to make our money with this video is we're going to fucking put it on YouTube And give it away and make the advertisers pay.

46:55BubblemanWatch. It's happening already. I'm just saying that the shift is slow but gradual. That guy Devin Supertramp was in my neighborhood the other day with a $80,000 camera and a giant fucking drone and they were filming a video of them going down our reservoir. This big giant concrete thing that some guy came some while back and he went down on a kayak and it went viral, this video of this guy on a kayak on a Thank you for watching.

47:43SpeakerIs there a third film in the works in the Union Culture High deal, or what's going on with that, Todd? No, Adam and the crew are actually making Ice Guardians right now. It's a very Canadian movie about the guys in hockey that will come out and kick your butt if you basically give any of their prize skaters shit. So they're called Enforcers in Hockey, so they're doing a movie about the Enforcers.

48:07SpeakerThat's Ice Guardians. That's cool. You know, people that don't realize, you know, that the real stars behind the union and the culture high are three Canadians. You know, there's Adam Scorgi, who you saw in the union, and then there's Brett Harvey, and then there's Stephen Green. And those three guys are really the heart and soul behind the movies. And the union first was a historical movie because those guys were learning history.

48:32SpeakerAnd I was a facilitator getting them, you know, good interviews, like, you know, Mick Harrier and Rogan and Grinspoon and others, but... They were the ones that were trying to put together a story of the history of cannabis from a non-biased perspective. They really were trying to act as journalists. They had nothing in the fire, so to speak. They didn't care either way which way it was going to go.

48:53SpeakerBut after learning everything, the whole crew turned into advocates. Truth really infected them, and that's what The Culture High is, really. An unapologetic advocacy film is really what happened. It was just because the union affected the filmmakers. And the way that I hope the film would affect others.

49:12BubblemanIt's an amazing film, no doubt about it, dude. It's fucking top notch. And it was so, it was so needed. There was this big gaping hole waiting for it to fill it.

49:24SpeakerYou know, what I tell people too is that, you know, the union came out right when internet speeds got up fast enough that we started trading movies like we were trading MP3s years earlier. And we really rode on this new technology and people being able to effectively download a two-hour movie. It didn't matter if they were, you know, in Hollywood or Denmark, they could access our film.

49:45SpeakerAnd because of that, I think that is really what caused everyone to be able to see it globally that caused us to have so much support for it later on. To be real, I mean, I believe that the internet and what you're saying is totally true. It's just when you're trying to make something and you got a budget, you can't get a budget out of YouTube unless you're Snoop Dogg or somebody that is going to have hits.

50:07SpeakerAnd you can't make a film with it. You can't go to Jason and Jaden's house and be like, okay, guys, we're going to make a viral video right now. Because it just doesn't work that way. You can only hope that what you make is so interesting that people tune into it in the droves, but you can't sit down and be like, hey, what's up? I'm going to pop some incredible footage.

50:27BubblemanI will say this. At this point in time, if someone had a knowledge of what I'm saying and they approached the investors of that movie and they said, hey, listen. We have 17 million hits that we haven't monetized on this video. We've lost literally 50 to 100,000 on the one clip. I suspect we could make over a million, maybe $2 million on YouTube monetization. Let's get this movie cut up, uploaded in the whole fucking thing, maybe even do a little interview talking about how we're going to give it away for free, and make those $2 million.

50:57BubblemanHoly shit!

51:02SpeakerI don't disagree with you. I love your idea, but at this point, some contracts would have to expire first. In some ways, though, we wouldn't be having this conversation if we didn't take a brick-and-mortar approach to it, because if we'd gone... Another path we might have never been seeing the way we've been seeing.

51:21BubblemanAbsolutely. You had to go the path you went. I don't deny that whatsoever.

51:25SpeakerIt was happenstance, really. And it was very serendipitous the way that technology and the message kind of found each other and made its way out over the internet tubes. For sure.

51:39BubblemanWell, welcome, everyone, that I haven't said hello to already. Just about to get myself a little dab here. As we celebrate Hash Church 44.

51:52SpeakerLet's talk about this girl getting fired. This woman got fired in Oregon that she was a TV news anchor woman named Sid. You guys hear about that in Canada? Yep. Yeah, tragic. I feel bad for her, but in a way I think it's a good thing because when people that are in regular, you know, square positions in society start getting knocked off their purchase, they're going to get pissed and start demanding equal rights because, you know, what's up?

52:20SpeakerA newscaster can go out and have some whiskey with their friends after work, but if they smoke a joint, that's it. They're fired forever. And this is in a state where it's legal, arguably, now.

52:30BubblemanI never heard about this. So she smoked a joint, got caught, and got fired?

52:37Etienne FontanShe had a positive urinalysis at work. She wasn't using it at work. It was outside of work. And they fired her. Now, from what I was reading, she has now turned into an activist because she is now the unfair as opposed to, I mean, the guy in the wheelchair in Colorado, oddly enough, he was fired and it was upheld in the Colorado Supreme Court. So this is probably a challenge that could go into the Oregon All the way up to the Oregon Supreme Court and that's what happens when you're the test case and this is one that is probably very well primed in Oregon since it's the first.

53:13Etienne FontanTwo, it's high profile because she's a news... Was she a news anchor or was she just a news person, Todd? I think she was an anchor.

53:23SpeakerWell, you know it though. Yeah, she's an anchor.

53:25Etienne FontanIt says anchor in her thing here. So she was an anchor. So she would have been then a popular person, somebody who was on television. So maybe this will, I don't know if that's somebody that the people of Oregon will be able to relate to and rally behind. I would hope so. But that is pretty fascinating. This just happened the other day, Bubble Man. This literally just happened this week here.

53:48BubblemanYeah, I still can't believe I haven't heard that. Where was she from?

53:54SpeakerOregon. I don't know where in Oregon.

53:57BubblemanOh, okay. I thought it was a Canadian.

53:59Etienne FontanNo. No, it's Oregon. Damn. Fired for Off Our Pot News Former Eugene TV Anchor Challenges Double Standards. So... There we go.

54:12SpeakerAnd I think that really says it. It's the double standard that we're all facing. I know I repeat myself like a parrot, but I think April Rice... You know, that's one of the things... Oh, sorry, Nick.

54:30SpeakerThat's one of the things we deal with in California as well, because there's no employment protection for medical patients. So if your employer decides to test you and you come up positive for cannabis, you can be terminated from any position that you hold in the state of California if your employer has any kind of drug abuse standards. So it's definitely something that we need to look at as a society as a whole and not punish patients for taking medicine.

55:00BubblemanI think it's why there's a real importance for a federal program, a federal Like across the board, at least, you know, allow the states to do some different things, but at least federally allow them all to do within reason what they want to do. So when you work for the government, all of a sudden you're in a state that allows medical cannabis, but you have a government job in the federal.

55:24Etienne FontanThat's idealistically wonderful. However, the laws won't change until more of the states here continue. To see, and as legalization comes on board, eventually the government will come on board, but then people will still have to fight for their rights. It's where we always say eternal vigilance is what you have to do, but somebody's going to have to take it to a case, someone's going to have to fight it.

55:47Etienne FontanBecause insurance companies will fight it and have the deep pockets to take it all the way. And it'll have to be challenged all the way to the Supreme Court. I just have no faith that our government's going to pass some sort of sweeping change that's going to allow its acceptance the same way as alcohol anytime soon. In time, maybe 20 years from now, but nowhere in the foreseeable future.

56:09SpeakerThere's not a single presidential candidate talking about that that has a chance, you know?

56:15Etienne FontanAnd they won't get elected doing so. So they'll play the card a little bit, but not in this upcoming election. Hell no. Not going to be Bush versus Clinton.

56:25BubblemanBut are you guys not close to half the state's medical now? At what point is the FDA forced? To reclassify cannabis as a Schedule II or III or whatever, is there not a point where there's a tipping scale? Was this just a rumor that I heard, or is this a reality within the, Dr.

56:42SpeakerIt's a herbal supplement. It's a herb that grows from the ground, and it creates and brings a wonderful essential oil that's healing. They would have to universally, Sit down on the entire nutritional supplement market, which is a real gray area in between traditional pharmaceuticals and foods. These are things you can go into GNC and just get a number of different formulations and preparations of all kinds of herbs that are similar to cannabis.

57:14SpeakerThey are plants that grow from the ground and create healing Uh, uh, uh, uh, effects for a variety of medical conditions. So they would have to universally sit down on the entire industry and they're not Hold on. Can I say something about that, though? You know what? Mark, his question was if something's going to happen, and we just saw it with gay marriage because so many states have passed gay marriage that now the Supreme Court had to intervene because they had to even out the playing field.

57:39SpeakerAnd you're going to see that similarly happen with cannabis without question because now you have states that have such 180-degree different laws than their neighbors. It's creating a situation where they can't, they can't, Thank you for watching.

58:06SpeakerMark voting away their drug war for so long before there's pressure on the Supreme Court to get them off the hook. Because if they're embarrassed to go into a state and they have to go, for instance, let me use my friend Steve D'Angelo as an example. You know, in the 80s, a guy selling $100,000 worth of pot a day We get a door smashed in and guns to his head, but now that doesn't look so good.

58:32SpeakerSo now the federal government is trying to steal the building he's in because that's cleaner than going in there and arresting him and potentially him winning because isn't that their big fear? If they lose a few jury trials against people in medical marijuana states, now their whole fucking house of cards is going to fall down. So already you're seeing their prosecutions change and their mode of operation change because they're having to adapt to the fact that they still got to pull a jury in a state that has already legalized the activity from a pool of voters who probably are the ones who voted to change the law anyway.

59:09SpeakerSo they have a problem with pulling a jury. And, you know, jury nullification is a scary item in the federal situation because this is why they push people to make deals. Because if people don't make deals and they test the system, the system's not that strong. You know, we see people like O.J. Simpson walk out on murder charges when the whole world thinks he did it, you know, and because our system of justice is so easily violated.

59:34SpeakerThank you for watching.

59:53SpeakerAnd now adult use cannabis. That the federal government will absolutely positively have no choice but to change their stance on it. And, you know, historically the federal government has always backed our rights. They went down to the south and they forced segregation in states that had bigoted piece of shit racist governors. I mean, the federal government for the longest time was on our side when it came to civil liberties and civil rights.

1:00:20SpeakerAnd even when I got involved in this movement, Jack Herro was renting the federal building on Wilshire Boulevard, 11,000 Wilshire, and we used to have our rallies there. And I thought, oddly, I was the kid that went to prison, that they were the more tolerant of the police departments because I saw the federal government as the more intelligent, liberal police force historically when you read 20th century history.

1:00:44SpeakerThank you for watching.

1:01:07SpeakerOn this, like we saw on gay marriage, you know, there's clips of Hillary Clinton, you know, 15 years ago saying, you know, marriage is between a man and a woman and my husband's mistress, you know, but then she was saying 14 years later that now she supports, you know, marriage equality. And she has to because if she goes out there with that rhetoric that only, you know, her and her husband are a legitimate marriage, she's just alienated all these actual voters.

1:01:33SpeakerAnd she doesn't want to do that. So Gavin Newstrom in California is doing the same thing. Prop 19 came down to 46.5% or so, almost winning. Do you think anybody is going to want to go out there and say F you to 46.5% of the vote? No way! They're going to pander to it. So what is he doing? A blue ribbon commission where he's going to go out and soft pedal legalization, which he knows is inevitable.

1:01:58SpeakerAnd if anyone runs against him and says legalization is bad, they're doomed. Because half of the voters already have gone there and said this is what we're going to do. So how long do you think that will be? Well, this is a bigger situation though, I mean, because, you know, how long will it take for Malaysia to stop hanging people? That's pretty much going to be the witness test of things changing.

1:02:23SpeakerAnd it's going to take a minute, which is why I think education, global education is key, but... You know, states like Oregon, Colorado, Alaska, Washington, changing is inevitably important in the overall scope of change because other countries in Europe, for instance, Amsterdam has always tolerated cannabis use because they couldn't outright legalize it. One, they're really not a democracy, and then two, they had to abide by the federal government's treaties.

1:02:53SpeakerAnd laws and regulations and all their little packs when they do business. So they didn't have the opportunity to thumb their noses to the federal government like Colorado. Because Colorado is a child of the federal government, if you will. So they could say, you dad, you can't fire me from being your son. But the Netherlands can't do that because they could say, you're fired and we're not going to give you any more aid.

1:03:18SpeakerAnd then the other way they'll go, oh, okay, that sucks. Okay, we quit. We quit. You know, we'll go bust the pot, people. But that can't happen in Colorado. So we're seeing democracy, as they call it in America, we're seeing that really change things in a bigger space because the federal government can't come out right now and go, hey, everybody, voting's illegal because it's pissing us off.

1:03:41SpeakerOkay, we're passing our drug laws, and you people are writing these initiatives, and you people are getting together and voting, and that is getting in the way of us filling up our private prisons. There's no way the federal government's going to come out and say what I just said. But ineffectually, that's what's happening. You know, and it's what's going to continue to happen as we continue to go and push laws and change laws on a state level.

1:04:03SpeakerAnd at that point, the federal government's bricks are falling out of their own wall. It's done. I think you're exactly right, Todd. You know, the federal government has limited days here left. You know, its oppression is about to end, and that's because of all the legalization that's going on. But I see that their next step... Thank you for watching.

1:04:44SpeakerThank you for watching.

1:05:04SpeakerIt's legal, right? But we can't grow our own at home if we're over the age of 21. Oregon and Colorado made the right decision when they did it, but we unfortunately passed a bad law that didn't allow for that to happen. And what we're seeing here in Washington, because we passed a more restrictive law than anywhere else in the nation, we're seeing more and more restrictions being placed on us by the legislature.

1:05:29SpeakerAnd so I think that that's really what the federal government's new agenda is, is placing restrictions on states via pressure to the legislature that will regulate things, you know, like the five nanogram limit that we got here in Washington. That was really right out of the federal government. They had been doing research on it. They had all these studies compiled saying five nanograms was great, and basically it was just fictitious stuff.

1:05:58SpeakerYou know, nonsense. So, you know, that's where we're going here. I mean, we actually just passed a new law. It was last week. Hey, Jeff, what is the five nanogram thing? For those of us who don't know, I need to know what this five nanogram thing is. Yeah, five nanograms is five nanograms per milliliter of blood. It's of THC carboxy.

1:06:25SpeakerSo it's not the THC acid, so it has to be absorbed into your blood basically. What is 5 nanograms? What's the significance of that number? Legal limit to drive. Legal limit to drive. Okay, so I think that's nothing more than the detection limit of the instrumentation. That's all that is. That's exactly what that is. It's 5 nanograms per liter. It's a detection limit of the determination of the metabolite, period.

1:07:00SpeakerThat's what it is. Well, it's unfortunate here in Washington. In Washington, that's the limit. And a lot of medical patients that get up in the morning have 10, 15 nanograms in their blood without even consuming anything. So they're completely sober, but by Washington state law, it's illegal for you to drive. Yeah, I think the more accurate detection limit is around 15 to 20 nanograms. I think five is a wing and a prayer.

1:07:29SpeakerI mean, you're looking down in the noise of the baseline, and I think that that number is out of whack myself. Yeah, well, that's... That's what we have here in Washington State. Now they've coupled that with a new law that's going to be effective in September. That's an open container law that basically if you have a bag of cannabis in your car that's not sealed, so basically it has to be bought at retail and still sealed to have it in your car, or you can have it in your trunk.

1:07:59SpeakerSo sure, there's a way you just throw your medicine in your trunk or you throw your recreational herb in your trunk. But having a bag in your car is going to be a probable cause for them to get your blood. And that's going to come up with a lot more DUIs. I mean... I don't know. We just keep backpedaling here in Washington State. We've just scrapped our medical law.

1:08:23SpeakerThere was a hope and a prayer that we were going to be able to do something here as far as continuing until next year in July. And my city, the city of Seattle, has just passed new ordinance saying that you have to have been prior to January 2013 a registered business or you have to shut down. And so that's for... Pretty much everybody. So, you know, it's just one thing after another here in Washington.

1:08:50SpeakerThere seems to be a whole lot of effort in all the legal states to sort of come up with various different models. And don't you think it's really time for the federal government just to step in and to homogenize this thing from coast to coast in all 50 states? And I think, you know, let's hope that, you know, President Obama on his way out of office by executive action will delist cannabis.

1:09:15SpeakerAnd put it like St. John's Wort and mint and basil and rosemary and thyme and whatever, you know, herbaceous plant that provides essential oils. There is no play. It's not an apple that has toxic side effects. It is just, it is absolutely ridiculous and it's time for the federal government to step in and I do believe, you know, when President Obama At the correspondence dinner, Crassley referred to BuzzFeed as something that he did morning when he was in college and inhaling was the point of smoking cannabis.

1:09:56SpeakerHow would you like to be a prisoner in a federally incarcerated situation that's basically underneath an organization that's with the President of the United States at the top saying it's okay for him to get high and get into the White House. Well, it's okay to incarcerate all kinds of people and fuck up people's lives based on a plant that grows from the ground. So we need to free Delisi.

1:10:23SpeakerWe need to free everyone. They all need to be freed. This workplace restriction is bullshit. How can you have something legalized and then an employer in that state fire you? That's just absolute bullshit. It's time for the federal government to step in. And I think President Obama, this will be certainly the monument of his legacy, leaving the White House and legalizing the cannabis plant. That's what he has to do from coast to coast.

1:10:50SpeakerThere's a whole lot of wasted resources and billions and billions of... Thanks for having me on. Thanks for letting me say my piece. Save chemistry questions for next week and we'll see you guys all soon. Thanks.

1:11:23SpeakerHey, Mark. What's the name of Phil Lesha's restaurant? Terrapin Crossroads. Yeah. San Rafael. We're heading up right now, and I know that there's a marathon in San Francisco, and I'm in San Jose, so we need to get around the whole traffic situation. To all my friends in the Bay Area, have fun and enjoy this beautiful day, and we'll see you guys soon.

1:11:50Etienne FontanAll right. Yeah, wow. Hey, speaking of food in the Bay Area, Bubble Man, Amy's Naturals is opening up their first fast food restaurant for Amy's in Roanoke Park up in California, so it's probably the flagship starting off, but there will definitely be more fast food.

1:12:13SpeakerAmy, screw those vegetarians. What? I said screw those vegetarians, but I was kidding, of course, obviously.

1:12:23BubblemanI haven't eaten meat this time before, really. Todd's like, I screw vegetarians all the time. Huh?

1:12:33SpeakerTodd's like, I screw vegetarians all the time. That's inappropriate, man. But you know what I was going to say? Yeah, actually, the girlfriends in my life are vegetarians, now that you say it. It's true, I have standards. But there, yeah, there's an ethical line that has to be met, you know, but... Grandfathering in cannabis is what we wanted to say after Mark. Oh my God. So Dr. Todd McCorea, he always came to the conclusion that grandfathering Father, like if we got to a point where we did with gay marriage, where we just accepted the fact that people are gay and they're going to like each other, then we can accept gay marriage.

1:13:18SpeakerAnd I think that once people accept that cannabis is safe and effective and hasn't killed anybody, at what point do they just go, okay, we were wrong and lay down their guns against it? Because there has to be this epiphany, almost this epiphany of an acceptance where people are going to go, Okay, I get it now. I was brainwashed, and the brainwashing has worn off. Right? Because everyone's going to get it at one point.

1:13:44SpeakerI believe so. They just collectively got gay marriage.

1:13:48Etienne FontanIt's true. It'll take time. I just don't think there'll be this utopian, all of a sudden, epiphany by Obama that he's just going to decide, oh, all of a sudden, I'm going to go against the FDA and everything and just reclassify kids.

1:14:04BubblemanWell, it's certainly not happening here. We have federal law and we wish our federal government would step away. Because the last thing, okay, was it the actual federal government or is it the city of Vancouver, Horatio, that's trying to close the vapor lounges?

1:14:24SpeakerThat's the city of Vancouver going back on their word a year after shutting it down. Like they wanted my vape thing bad and it was an e-cigarette ban on indoor vaping that they were like, we're not going to target marijuana. Then a year later when it suits, it's like, yeah, shut down those smoking things too. Basically they're using the health clause. To basically say no indoor pollution, like you can't carbon filter it.

1:14:51BubblemanYeah, but you know what? They tried that in 2004. They came to my gallery, The Melting Point, and they said, hey, you know, we're from the health department. You can't just have this smoke. And I said, these are vaporizers. They're volcano vaporizers, and I would love for you to take one. I remember I gave the city one. It was damn near a thousand bucks retail at the time.

1:15:12BubblemanAnd I said, test all the tests you want and tell me you can come back and say what's going into that bag is smoke. And they never came back. They never came back and said a single thing to me. They never brought me the vaporizer back. They just disappeared. And that's really how Vapor Lounge is. I mean, back in the day before Mark Emery started his Vapor Lounge, it was at that point when I told Michelle Rainey, yeah, listen, I gave the health department the Volcano and They haven't been able to come back and stop me.

1:15:44BubblemanSo all of a sudden that vapor, so this has been happening way longer than a year of them going back on their word. This is like, you know, 10 plus years.

1:15:53SpeakerWell, it's the way the e-cigarettes went. Like, I mean, you know, you see how I vape, so I know where I stand in society. They want me in the ditch, but it's that guy that just goes, hey, it's legal, and he starts doing it at his desk, and then he blows it on that one girl that understands she has rights, and then she complains, then company by company it becomes a thing, and of course Vancouver's a very aware city of anything that bothers people, so...

1:16:18SpeakerThey finally caught up to the fact that, yeah, people are just vaping out all their, all these, you know, basically society again. And they're like, no smoke, nothing that looks like smoke. So when it was weed only, it was like, okay, yeah, it is small. But now that it's become like 10,000 me's everywhere, just vaping and vaping and clouding things up, it just becomes an anger towards society.

1:16:41SpeakerWhite vapor all over again, and that's kind of where they're just like, shut it all down. I mean, didn't they, they said, like, dispensaries can't have lounges connected to, you can't smoke anything near where you buy it, pretty much.

1:16:55BubblemanYeah, well, that's not the only fuck-up we're having right now. We're also having, and this one comes from our federal government, even though we shouldn't have to listen to them, because the Supreme Court justices, all seven of them, unanimously stated that we were allowed derivatives of all and every kind, Now, try to help me understand this one, Horatio. What the fuck is 30 milligrams per ml?

1:17:18SpeakerThey're looking at that and basically saying they want concentrates to be as weak as FUD. Like 20%? Pretty much. They're basically saying like, look, you shouldn't be smoking more than this much milligrams of weed, so why should a gram of oil have any more than 3% medical value? They're basically deconcentrating the oil.

1:17:44BubblemanI think that's a real step backwards, but are we really forced to listen to those rules when all those Supreme Court justices said otherwise?

1:17:54SpeakerNo, that just limits the LPs from ever producing something with any medical efficacy. It's really just to stymie any development of any valuable products from cannabis other than, well look, if they want oils, they can get it, but they can only get it as weak as the bud that really doesn't do it. Like we all, by concentrating, go over our daily needs. So it's clear we need more than our daily needs.

1:18:20BubblemanIt kind of shows that the LPs and Health Canada aren't really in bed together.

1:18:28SpeakerThat's the thing. Everyone thinks like the government and the LPs. I'm like, no, the government's policy is to fuck the LPs. You don't understand. They were just told you will never, ever be able to make, basically what you have to make better be 90 times weaker than what Horatio can do or else you can't do it. So you will never be able to offer anyone anything which we all can.

1:18:52SpeakerIt can't even be as good as crappy Rick Simpson oil. Well you know what? That's black tar.

1:18:57BubblemanThe dispensaries in a sense are probably happy because once again it gives the dispensary this incredible foot in the door to say listen. We are absolutely going to practice this level of civil disobedience due to the fact that you have once again breached our charter of rights by saying we can have something but then trying to limit the amount of actual medicine present in that something that we are allowed to have.

1:19:25SpeakerIt's a... It's halfway linked to that fake lethal dose that doesn't exist. They just... Okay, well, they say they can have oils, we'll just boil it down to the lowest safety for the most square person getting a brownie in their mouth. And it's the lowest common denominator, so it'll do fine for people who are looking to get high on a brownie, because that's like pretty much the capsule dose that people recreationally eat, but if somebody's got cancer, they are so fucked, they might have to eat, like, 10 grams of coconut oil just to get a regular dose, and then they're shitting up a storm.

1:20:02SpeakerBut can we be more realiztic? ProVision didn't work for them the first time, so they can try to prohibit whatever the fuck their little made-up demons are, but it hasn't worked out so good for them. We're all sitting here smoking weed, doing dabs, and if you look at Instagram, there's a whole lot of people making hash as we sit here talking about hash. And it's pretty ironic.

1:20:26SpeakerAnd I don't believe that any of their ignorance is really going to push forward, even if they want to come in. Because Amsterdam is dealing with the same thing. They're saying they're going to lower the percentage of the overall percentage of cannabis that's sold. It can't be above whatever percent. And it's stupid because All people are going to do is throw in the leaves and the stems and test that too and watch the numbers drop down to single percentage points when they're actually measuring everything that's in the bag instead of just the flower tops, you know?

1:20:57SpeakerAnd it's so subjective.

1:21:00Etienne FontanWhy should we experts acquiesce to these imperialistic politicians who don't know about cannabis and And don't know what they're talking about. They are. These are just ghost numbers. They have pulled out of nowhere. At the same time, I'm sitting here as an American envious of you Canadians that you... What happened to ATN?

1:21:26BubblemanI don't know. He cut out there real quick. I was wondering if I froze up, but I was really wanting to hear what he was... Go ahead. No, you muted yourself.

1:21:39Etienne FontanI was just saying, it was just frustrating that we experts, why do we acquiesce to these politicians? Why do we give these people who create these ghost numbers out of nowhere, why do we all of a sudden have to just give it to them? Secondly, I as an American, I'm sitting here absolutely envious of Of Canada, because at least your government says it's medical marijuana. You know what my medical marijuana is in the United States?

1:22:14Etienne FontanI've seen it. It's grown at the University of Mississippi. It's crap. Okay, I understand that of course the Canadian government doesn't have its full act together still, but at least you have licenses. At least your government sees it that way. Our government is decades behind in that consideration, and that's what's so frustrating. Well, you still have to, like us, you still have to fight for every inch, because it seems for every inch they want to take a mile back.

1:22:42Etienne FontanIt says that inherent, as Todd was saying, prohibition that still goes back so long that they still have to fight us back when they don't even know what they're talking about about cannabis. They're the ones that told us that it was going to make us crazy, grow breasts and kill people and, oh, no, it makes you apathetic and do nothing. Oh, mm. So... Why should we sit there and listen to them?

1:23:05Etienne FontanWe have to fight them and check them along the way. I commend Horatio and Mark and everyone and John and what you guys are doing there by stepping up and having and exerting your rights because we in America have absolutely laid back with our legs back and said, okay, run us over completely. So at least you have a dialogue and a dialogue that's open even though you do feel it is one-sided.

1:23:31Etienne FontanFuck, man, I can't wait till we're there.

1:23:35BubblemanYeah, it's nice to have a federal license, I'll tell you that much. And it's especially nice that, you know, that people like Owen Smith and Ted Smith and Kirk Tussauds and John Conroy fought this fight and, you know, made it so that Health Canada, their hand was forced. Now, Health Canada, which is part of our government, they're responsible for the medical cannabis program. Our health minister, Rona Ambrose, Literally states that she does not believe cannabis is a medicine.

1:24:08BubblemanIt's not an approved medicine is what she constantly says. She's constantly like throwing out this sort of pharmaceutical rhetoric as to why people should continue to suffer and not have access to it. It's really hard to listen to when at the same time you're allowed to have a federal license. I mean my federal license is hanging on the wall right there. It's I have zero worry of people coming and harassing me for my plants, and that is something I wish for everyone, that if they want to grow plants, that they can, and that your only stress will be that it can be difficult, that you better be careful.

1:24:48BubblemanDon't put it too close to this grapevine, because that thing absorbs powdery mildew like a sponge. There's all these different things that you will learn as you grow cannabis. And those can be sickening lessons, but those are about as sickening as the lessons with cannabis should be. They shouldn't be any more sickening than that, especially having your family taken away, being jailed, and getting on more of that sort of bullshit.

1:25:14SpeakerWell, it is a little weird we're talking about flowers. I mean, that's the irony here. It's not like we're weapons manufacturers or we're like got vats of some crazy chemical that only we have that is a total poison going. It's like we're talking about growing flowers. And at what point will we be able to have flowers like we have, you know, wine bottles or rose bushes or, you know...

1:25:38SpeakerHere in California, I drive around and there are thousands and thousands and thousands of acres of just grape vines everywhere, you know? And it doesn't seem to corrupt the children that drive by them on their way to school. You know, the kids don't end up becoming total winos because every single day they went to school, they had to drive by them grape fields. You know, it's just stupid.

1:26:00SpeakerAt what point is this going to become just another agricultural crop when we have, like, rights, like, normal rights? Like, I... This is what I've had a hard time with, I guess, ever since I was a kid. It's like, how are you going to convince me a flower is illegal? I guess that's really where I hit an impasse with the laws and with my My inability to really understand their side of it because I don't.

1:26:25SpeakerI don't. I just don't see. It's like slavery, in all honesty. I don't see the other side of slavery. And if slavery existed, there's no fucking way I would abide by the laws. There's no fucking way I would do anything but lose my mind if I saw a slave owner abusing a slave. I would fucking lose it. And, you know, I'd probably be dead younger than I am now.

1:26:47SpeakerBut this is the same kind of inability to comprehend their side of it, if that makes sense. Because I can't wrap my fucking head around a flower being illegal in the same way I can't wrap my fucking head around slavery being illegal. And I hope that it gets to a point in America just as it is now with slavery. Because if you went around and asked people, what do you think of slavery?

1:27:09SpeakerThey'd think that is fucking horrible. Well, right, but the dudes on your dollar dollar bills, they all owned them. The people you look up to owned them. The people that you look up to and founded this country did a bunch of really atrocious shit that you don't think is cool anymore. And I think marijuana prohibition is right up there with fucking slavery. Unrepentant florists.

1:27:31Etienne FontanHuh? Unrepentant florists.

1:27:35BubblemanUnrepentant florists. That was a meme, wasn't it? Todd's just a meme a week.

1:27:45BubblemanAwesome.

1:27:48SpeakerYeah, I'm not too into the memes, but it is true though. Fuck them, man. You know, at what point do we really wake up and go, really? Flowers? I mean, this is what pisses me off about our country is that We literally celebrate freedom in America, but I don't know anybody that has the courage to go plant hemp in their front yard and watch it grow, cut it down, and make some paper.

1:28:10SpeakerI don't know really, unless you're in Colorado now and Washington and a couple other states that are obviously breaking the law. But other than that, you know, let's see that freedom happen in Texas. That would be kind of funny. I love to see someone plant some hemp in their front yard in Texas. See how the federal government reacts to that. Freedom! Freedom! Come on, where is it?

1:28:38SpeakerBut I still find it quite amusing. Okay, now we lost Mark. No. Oh. Well, I mean, I still don't have the freedom to plant corn in my front yard, so it's got to be stages. I just wanted food. Most people still get their front yard fucked up for growing food. So, I mean, the one thing I want to say about your point of not understanding, I think you have a problem understanding a world where the left brain goes super egotistical and dominates.

1:29:10SpeakerThat's the problem. They see any form of, like, you don't understand when that person gets one toke off of a joint, the crack, the experience of their right brain is so strong that it's like a not me and it's something that should be fought and it represents the destruction of the left brain. So you have the left brain literally resisting Thank you for watching.

1:29:48SpeakerWe need cognitive liberty is what we need. Fuck yeah.

1:30:12SpeakerBut I believe that in all honesty that this is something that we have to start coming at them with truth, and we can't tolerate more intolerance. At some point we have to be, you know, different to their indifference of, oh, fuck your science, fuck all the things that are true, because really we have to hold these people to accountability. I mean, if we have in our country presidents that are going to ignore reality, then they're really not that smart of people.

1:30:38SpeakerAnd I think that we have to start looking at things different. I mean, You know, look at Bernie Sanders, for instance, running for president. The guy's like a fucking Obama-esque rock star, the way he's running around and getting people going, and he's been on point for his whole career. And I think that supporting more people like that that are telling the truth and that are out there, you know, as much as he seems like a long shot, is really the way to go, because we need people that are not afraid to speak truth to power, you know.

1:31:07SpeakerUnfortunately, it's why I think Donald Trump is so popular, because You know, Americans who think that, you know, gold is great think that he's cool as fuck, and he gets all this media, but the beauty of, I think, what he's doing is just saying fuck you to all these assholes that are such lick-asses, that kiss each other's ass over everything, and play such a dirty game of fool while everybody's watching, and we're all sick of these politicians, you know, and I really think there has to be more and more accountability, and I'm hoping the internet does that And I'm hoping that there's more transparency and that we start to support politicians like Gavin Newstrom, who's openly coming out and saying, you've got to deal with this.

1:31:49SpeakerIt's inevitably part of our future that we have cannabis legalized like it's any other commodity. And you know what? They want to see it happen because, like I said, we drive by thousands of acres of grape fields in California, and it all contributes to the economy. Right now, cannabis is not really doing that in the way that it could. And once they give us regulation and You're going to see a huge turnaround in this.

1:32:13SpeakerAnd I believe people that used to say that they'll lose the right to grow it are wrong because once it normalizes to the point where you can be gay anywhere, that you don't got to watch out that you're in public to kiss your boyfriend or kiss your girlfriend if you're a girl or a boy, where you can just be yourself wherever you are, cannabis is going to have that opportunity to be itself wherever it is, I think, too.

1:32:34SpeakerIt's just going to take a while of acceptance until everybody goes, oh, yeah, remember, cannabis is, you know, Thank you for watching.

1:33:00SpeakerYou know, but now more and more people are knowing that. Now that's more common knowledge. And I think that's going to be really what changes things. When things that we had to teach people become, for instance, when I got busted in 97, I had a hemp flag that ATN gave me. And when I got busted, I did a news thing and I was standing next to the American flag.

1:33:21SpeakerAnd then LA Times wrote the flag, and they put in parentheses, it was made of hemp, and they used the words, of course. And I read that and I felt like such a triumph because just, you know, years earlier we used to stand on Venice Beach with our hemp, you know, basically potato sack pants trying to convince people they were made out of cannabis and that cannabis was cannabis and they'd look at us and go, you're fucking crazy.

1:33:46SpeakerAnd now, you know, back a few years then, now they were looking at a hemp flag and saying, of course that's made of hemp. Because now they're all that smart. And that was where I think we're going to go. Because when people start making the association of cannabis being a safe and effective medicine or a leavement or treatment, there's going to be no fear for it. And cannabis users will be able to be free and public just like gay people are now to a large degree.

1:34:13SpeakerDo you still have that flag? No, I think they took it. I don't remember it being in the house after I got busted, do you? Was it in the elevator when I came home?

1:34:25Etienne FontanYeah, it was around for a little bit, because I remember it after.

1:34:30SpeakerYeah, no, I have no idea what happened to it, bro. That is one of those, that got lost in the filter prison, sorry. I liked it while I had it, though. Good looking, though. I hung it upside down in my elevator next to a pot plant. Because, you know, I had to decorate an elevator, so he gave me a flag, so I held it upside down like it was in dress and put a twisty fluorescent bulb in there and grew pot in my elevator because I could.

1:35:00Etienne FontanIt's back when I was working for Ecolution Hemp Company and we had a couple of, the Romanians made us a couple of flags and I think there was an original Liberty with the 13 stars, wasn't it? Yeah, it was, yeah. Original 13 stars flag. It was pretty cool.

1:35:17SpeakerYeah, thank you for it. Sorry I lost it. The government that it represented was busy kicking my ass.

1:35:25BubblemanAnalytical Mike says he's done listening to politics. He wants to hear about hash. Oh, go Mark.

1:35:33SpeakerWell, I ran into straight concentrates last night at the Terpsich on Treasure Island, and He brought out some of the stuff that they've been pressing up in Ukiah. This is...

1:35:50SpeakerI didn't get the flavor, but this is some of the collab with the clear concentrates. So this is rosin with the clear concentrates. Chlorosin? Chlorosin, yes. And then this is some of the stuff that Tony dropped off for me. This is the New York City Diesel by Trainwreck Flower Rosin. I'm trying to get my head behind it because you can literally see straight through this thing. It's amazing.

1:36:17SpeakerAnd the texture is crazy. It's just like sappy. You can't really see it. Like this sappy texture. But the flavor on this is just insane.

1:36:35Etienne FontanAny flavor descriptors?

1:36:38SpeakerYeah, it definitely has the nice train wreck piney funk to it. I don't get as much diesel. We were talking about it last night, how it almost has like a hash plant flavor, and it's full flavor of the plant. It's no hash flavor at all. It captures the whole essence of the plant by the fullest I've ever tasted. We also got some Bizarre Brothers... Hash Rosen, this is their Truth OG.

1:37:14SpeakerSo, I mean, the Rosen is just flowing all over the place right now. I've had six or seven different people contacting me trying to get different style presses and just trying to get as much information as they possibly can. So, you're really pushing the envelope with all this information you're putting out on Rosen, Mark, and the community thanks you for sure.

1:37:39Etienne FontanYeah, I got some of this Mendo Blenzo from the Bizarre Brothers this week. I had some rosin as well, and yeah, I can't thank you guys enough for what you guys are doing. On top of that, here is another, this is a Maui OG rosin. So, I mean, the quality's coming in phenomenal, so thank you guys for spreading the word, because The choices now are becoming multiple for patients now because not only they heard about it, they can access it.

1:38:12Etienne FontanSo keep on pressing. And thanks to, you know, we just saw when we were at Chalice, we saw Rosin Technologies from Aquatech Technologies doing their Rosin Press, and we just saw D-Nail come out with their Rosin Press. So the presses are rolling, people. If you haven't seen them, go to their Rosin Technologies, go to D-Nail. They're there. They're out there. They're production and they're there for you.

1:38:40BubblemanMine are clear in customs. It's still in customs? Yeah, I'm just waiting for them to clear customs. Well, yeah, probably tomorrow I'll be able to get them. Oh, I would also like to give a shout out to Soil Grown, obviously, anytime you mention, and Chad as well, Compassion, anytime you mention Roz and I feel that it's good to give those two guys... A shout out because they really were very important people.

1:39:10Etienne FontanAgain, that's what I started Hash Church with, Soil Grown right here, the original Bud Squisher.

1:39:15BubblemanThe original. He is the original Bud Squisher. You know, it's so nice to see the words the original used in an accurate way.

1:39:28SpeakerI think squishing the buds is really the only true rosin, to be really honest with you, in my opinion. I don't know.

1:39:38Etienne FontanSo yeah, there's a debate. So if rosin is what is fresh pressed from buds, then what would be the name then that we give to what's currently rosin that's pressed from water hash? Does it deserve its own separate classification? Debate.

1:39:59SpeakerExpelled pressed water hash oil. That rolls off the tongue.

1:40:05BubblemanThat rolls off the nail too.

1:40:10SpeakerIt is. Don't you think the terpene that you get off of, when you do it off of a bud, it tastes totally different, man. There's way more terpenes present than when you do it off of water hash.

1:40:25BubblemanYeah, there's definitely a different terpene profile, absolutely. That being said, the really flavorful water hashes, the really delicious water hashes and dry sifts, My God, the version of those tastes like, for example, Sweet Skunk, which I had some material left over that was cleaned. I cleaned it, and it was below my 70 micron screen. And therefore, I took it later and basically pressed it into rosin, and the Sweet Skunk flavor that came out of that rosin Was just like a stronger sweet skunk flavor than I've ever gotten from the NUG, that's for sure.

1:41:13BubblemanFrom Dry Sift.

1:41:15Etienne FontanH-O-S-I-N or maybe H-0-S-I-N. W-O-S-I-N. So the debate is on.

1:41:25SpeakerYeah, I like Dry Sift. The idea of pressing Dry Sift is almost like pressing flowers.

1:41:32BubblemanIt's close. It's a little bit different still, but it's closer.

1:41:37SpeakerRight. I like the flowers. I want to get the new denail press and press flowers. There's no question.

1:41:56Etienne FontanAnyone else? What do you think, Horatio? Is it worthy of a different name, or should it be a distinction?

1:42:04SpeakerBecause I mostly have only smoked rosin made from dry sift, I'm not a part of the bubble hash. I don't have a mountain of bubble hash to convert like everyone else, so I don't experience it. I don't experience the drastic shift, and because it's Nug Run dry sift, it's It's very, very close to me. By the time it's concentrated down in a dry sift and it stinks up a storm way stronger than the nugs, if you then milk that out, it can get extreme.

1:42:37SpeakerIt also, unfortunately, this is why I prefer to keep my sift, except if it's the lower screen. It does change the taste. I'd rather have the dry sift, like the more normal dry sift. But when it comes to pulling the flavor out of material that's too contaminated to taste it, that's where rosin shines.

1:42:58Etienne FontanWhat about aqua rosin? Somebody put that one.

1:43:05SpeakerThat's just a native word, aqua rosin.

1:43:10SpeakerI think you can definitely taste the difference. When people hand me something that was pressed out of a fresh flower and people hand me something that was pressed out of a water hash, it's to me night and day.

1:43:22Etienne FontanOh, especially the nasal. The nasal is exponential. All the terpenes just come out just wow. It's overwhelming at times, which I like because I don't get that all the time with Just regular BHO or PHO, you know. When I get it from Rosin, I totally feel it with water-pressed, not so much, but I still do get it, but it is not as just overpowering to the nasal.

1:43:55SpeakerI like it. Makes me want to smoke some.

1:44:03BubblemanI think you should. I just hit a pretty decent sized dab of that LHO distillate and my goodness.

1:44:10Etienne FontanBlue bean. I'm going to try this Bizarre Brothers Bendo Blendo. Very tasty.

1:44:17JenBendo Blendo.

1:44:22SpeakerOkay, we're going to go with the blue bean. You do that. I think that you've got to stop this stuff. What?

1:44:30BubblemanThe Blue Beam. Whoa, there's a fucking big crazy plane, a big yellow one, like a big one that just flew by super low in front of my house. That was trippy.

1:44:46BubblemanI wanted to welcome Jeff back with Fletch and welcome True, who both came into the room since we've been chatting.

1:44:56Etienne FontanHow are you guys?

1:45:00BubblemanWhat up, guys?

1:45:01Etienne FontanWhat are y'all toking on over there?

1:45:03BubblemanYou guys smoking flowers out of the max?

1:45:06SpeakerI do. We're smoking some of this florist group Buddha beads. Buddha beads.

1:45:14BubblemanI thought I imagined the sight of buds, fresh green buds kind of expanding out of the bowl when Fletch was hitting it. It was a hallucination.

1:45:23SpeakerSome dry sift, some pretty tasty stuff this guy, the florist group, kicked me down. Got some cookie raws in too.

1:45:33Archive SeedsAnd some new strains. We got Memory Loss crossed with Do-Si-Do. That looks beautiful. Just crazy. We got two crosses. I mean, Amnesia, Face Off, OGKB all in one strain. You know, fun new stuff.

1:45:51BubblemanFun new stuff. I like it. Me too. Looks beautiful even through the camera.

1:45:56Archive SeedsCool Face Off something.

1:46:01Archive SeedsIt's like, I don't know, it's weird incense-y kind of shit.

1:46:07Archive SeedsYep. Strong. Grown by a classic grower around here. Not myself. Could be unnamed.

1:46:22BubblemanI finally got rain on my plants. My plants were in desperate need of some rain.

1:46:28Archive SeedsOh, it's been raining down here. My backyard plants have been getting it and loving it. It's like foliar feeding.

1:46:34BubblemanYeah, they look so happy after the rain.

1:46:40SpeakerI put a tarp over mine. I'm like, that sky rain is going to get in my deep water culture buckets that are outside. Sky rain.

1:46:50BubblemanDamn, that sky rain. That's funny.

1:46:56Archive SeedsYeah, I hope we get a long season here this year. I got some stuff I'm trying to figure out for running I-502 outdoor next year, so.

1:47:07BubblemanIt would be, yeah, it'll be interesting to see whether we get early precipitation or whether we, you know, it stays dry again until like December, which is scary for the mountains, scary for the water reservoirs. Vancouver is at, I believe, 70% of our water reservoir and we use 1.2 billion liters a day.

1:47:28SpeakerI think it's the first time we realized Vancouver is the LA of the West Coast and they really consume a shit ton of resources. It's just right in the past we've had a shit ton so you haven't seen the burn but as soon as we stop the water you see how crazy people are.

1:47:45BubblemanWater's not over yet but they said that to fill our reservoirs they said that it would take I can't, some ridiculous amount of millimeters. Two months solid rain would fill up our reservoirs back to where they belong, the 70% or whatever that's missing right now.

1:48:06Archive SeedsI think it's supposed to be an El Nino year this year, so we'll see what that does.

1:48:11BubblemanWell, the mountain on Whistler was terrible last year, so I just pray for anything better than last year.

1:48:17Archive SeedsIt was the worst. Leds only came out like a couple times last year with my buddies. Like, I mean, it wasn't even worth going up most of the time I know, which is terrible.

1:48:26BubblemanTerrible when it's one of your favorite things to do in the whole world.

1:48:30Etienne FontanIt's not just an El Nino, it's a Godzilla El Nino they are trimming it. Epic. Really? Yeah, it's supposed to be... Supposedly we're going to get a lot of soaking rains here in California in the fall they're predicting.

1:48:47BubblemanWell, it makes sense that a Godzilla would follow a drought.

1:48:52SpeakerCalifornia mudslides is going to be the new attraction on the news. Is that going to be when we fall off the coast of California and into the ocean? Yeah, when you finally get enough water, it'll get so heavy it'll just sink.

1:49:16BubblemanYou know what? I saw Michio Kaku. A renowned physicist who works, I think, out of the University of New York, he was talking about just the history of earthquakes along the West Coast and how we know about a 10,000 year history from drilling and we can see that they happen on average every 240 years and we've had about 41 or 42 of them in the last 10,000 years and that we haven't had one in like a big fucking big big big 9 point something.

1:49:49BubblemanIn like 315 years.

1:49:55BubblemanWhich is definitely over the average.

1:49:58SpeakerSo you're saying I should definitely be getting new tires?

1:50:01BubblemanNo! I don't think, I mean I live on the west coast too, Todd, so I mean I like the idea of being aware of it. Maybe, you know, like having...

1:50:11SpeakerI tell you guys a funny though, in California, because we've had a drought, people have been able to let their tires go a lot longer, and when it starts raining, motherfucking cars are going to be slipping all over the place. Because I literally started doing a tire search, I was like, damn, I ain't bought tires in a while. But yeah, you know, it's going to be good times if it pours like you're saying.

1:50:34SpeakerI want to think about cannabis art, where we can get a cool green strain on to keep them safe.

1:50:42SpeakerMudslides being an attraction is definitely not an appealing idea for those who live there. Especially on hills.

1:50:49BubblemanDude, I'm telling you. Live on a mountain. Thank God my house is built into bedrock.

1:51:02SpeakerWell, you know, there's so many people who built their house on sand, it should wash away when it finally goes down, but... We had a quake, what was it, like two weeks ago? Everyone said they felt it here, and then it was just in Washington, and then it fucked up my part of BC, but it didn't go all the way to the coast. We seem to have them all the time, and it's...

1:51:24SpeakerWe're not built for it like California or San Francisco. They have codes to put that shit into the buildings. I have a feeling the whole skyline is just going to crumble.

1:51:36BubblemanBut what neither of us really have, which is scary, which is what they do have in Japan, because that's a culture that lives with earthquakes, they have an awareness of them that they're always around the corner and they sort of have things in play. Kids are trained and people know places to go if you get caught between here and there. It's kind of terrifying how much we don't have any of that really.

1:52:00SpeakerWe have the stand in between the doorway theory. That's pretty much it. Whatever you learned on TV when it goes down. So no, think about how many trees are going to fall on everything and just completely dissolve our infrastructure.

1:52:18SpeakerYou know, this is a dark conversation, guys. People are going to be asking us to start talking about politics again pretty fucking soon. Hey, we're in California, man. There's a lot of happy new greenhouses that don't want to hear any of this stuff.

1:52:33BubblemanWell, you know what I'll back it up with then, which is what I told my kids when they were all worried about it. I said, hey, in reality... It could be another 70 years or 170 years. It's like, you know, maybe just make it an awareness. Be safe, you know, use it as a positive thing, but don't worry about it and live your life. Do your thing.

1:52:53BubblemanCertainly not telling people to move. I live on the West Coast myself, right by water on a mountain with a huge mountain over top of me.

1:53:01SpeakerHey, I look at you like this. I'd rather sit here and wait for an earthquake and the sunshine than go home in Rhode Island and know that winter was going to come every year, every single year to fuck me. So no, I'm kind of happy waiting for the world to fall apart. In California. With a smile and the sunshine, catching the sunset all day. A dab. A vegetarian.

1:53:26SpeakerA dab of that.

1:53:31SpeakerDab to migration.

1:53:34Etienne FontanYeah, I feel the same way. That's why I live in California. I grew up in Louisiana, and my relatives all go, how can you live out there in the land of earthquakes? It's like, well, earthquakes rarely happen, whereas you have how many hurricanes coming this year? So, yeah, I don't miss living with tornadoes, hurricanes, all that craziness. Because it sucked every Labor Day always being a hunter down somewhere and getting the flickering of the little telethon.

1:54:06Etienne FontanBecause, you know, Mother Nature's got our fucking ass in it.

1:54:11BubblemanTrue story. Well, I have enough people have asked me in the chat here to talk a little bit about the zip line in the cannabis grow room. And so I will talk a little bit about it. It goes back for sure. The gentleman who made it and who owned that grow room and was responsible for pretty much everything in that grow room and the reason it was the way it was, which was always impeccable, he had been growing, my goodness, maybe for 30 years at the time.

1:54:45BubblemanHe's probably closer to 45 years now growing. Those zipline photos are quite old. And so... The story is that he had this room. It was a very high ceiling, close to 20 feet, and he decided he would dig up the floor and plant beautiful soil that he super soil mixed and grow these beautifully tall plants right out of the ground inside, though. And so I don't know how it became a thing, but one day he was like, you know, I'm going to build a zip line over this grow one day, and I was just like, oh, okay, yeah, you do that.

1:55:24BubblemanFucking zipline, like as if he's going to build a zipline, right? And for those of you that haven't seen the photos, they're on my Instagram, which is bcbubbleman. You can check them out. I've posted one just recently. They are quite old. That's why my hair is so long, and I am not gray-haired. But yeah, he built, to my knowledge, what is the first working zipline over a cannabis grow?

1:55:45BubblemanThe plants could be 13, 14 feet tall. And you could still go over them on this zip line, and the zip line had two motors. It had a motor that would take you out across a bar, a track, that would take you back and forth all the way to the end of the room. And then he had another one that would take you up and down, so you could go into the middle and then just drop yourself right down into the middle of these plants.

1:56:09BubblemanAnd it really was, you know, to this day, one of the most amazing experiences I've ever had, um, In a grow room, and I thank him. He's very private, and I wouldn't want to use his name or even his nickname in here, but I just give you props, dude. You inspired a lot of people through those photos just by putting your money where your mouth is and doing what you fucking said you were going to do, which was build a zipline in your fucking epic grow room, and I sure applaud you for it.

1:56:39BubblemanSo there's the story on the zipline for those in the chat who are asking about it. You too can build a zip line in your grow. Why not? Doesn't have to be indoors. You can do it outdoors. I can see a nice one ripping through the California, those big monster trees.

1:57:02BubblemanI don't believe there are pure hash joints from Jamaica. Arnie Adjokut, the hash joint video that I did, I shouldn't have written that potentially I would put the address up because my friend didn't realize that the video would get like 700,000 views, and so he's not as inspired to put his address up now for that product. Almost 800,000 views on that hash joint, actually. True story. Welcome, Jen.

1:57:32JenMorning.

1:57:33BubblemanHi, Jan. What's going on over by you?

1:57:38JenJust trying to wake up, enjoying the weather. It's finally not 105 degrees out, so.

1:57:46BubblemanI'm telling you, that's what was going on up here for the longest time, and it was starting to get to us, I have to admit.

1:57:52JenI agree.

1:57:55BubblemanIt was a little bit too much, let's... We're just having a nice kind of chill hash church. We've been talking about everything but hash actually for the last couple of hours.

1:58:08Etienne FontanHey Jen, is that a trampoline over the balcony there so you guys can just jump right off there right onto the trampoline?

1:58:15JenYes, sir, it is.

1:58:20BubblemanThat's where you film those epic fail videos.

1:58:24JenYeah. We haven't had anybody try it yet, but... I have a feeling one day it's going to happen.

1:58:32BubblemanWell, they should definitely aim for the middle.

1:58:35JenNow, if you notice, there's like this little area here. Let's see. There's actually a target built in. Like, I think they did that shit on purpose.

1:58:44BubblemanOh, I bet. For sure. I'll tell you. You jump off that trampoline and hit anywhere but that target. You're fucked.

1:58:53Etienne FontanYeah, gravity won't be kind to you.

1:58:58BubblemanI, uh... I flew off a trampoline in junior high, man. I flew off this thing what felt to me like a crazy distance. And I actually landed kind of on my gym teacher who was also Dash, my industrial arts teacher, who wasn't afraid to like choke you out and hold you up against the wall or maybe like hold up a 2x4 like he was for sure going to hit you with it.

1:59:22BubblemanIn fact, if you ever knew the TV show Thrill of a Lifetime, This motherfucker went on there and drove a tank. So he was my industrial arts teacher and he was my gym teacher and he was definitely not afraid to choke someone out. I jumped off a trampoline and landed on him and I'll never forget what he said to me. He said, he said, you're a goddamn accident waiting to happen.

1:59:47BubblemanHe was French. Very funny. I was. I'm not going to lie. I was kind of an accident waiting to happen. Did you hurt him? You know what? I did not hurt this guy. He was a tank. Okay? When I say he drove a tank, he also was a tank. I hurt.

2:00:08BubblemanHe dented you. He definitely dented me. I'm still talking about it all these years later. Can you believe that? It's got to be 30 years ago. What disciplinarian school did you go to, sir? That school was called John Henderson, and it was in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Before that, I did seven years at a school called Sacré Coeur, which is Sacred Heart. My principal, Sir Diminil, was like a nun, kind of a scary nun.

2:00:41Etienne FontanWas it one of the crazy Irish nuns? I had the crazy Irish nuns.

2:00:45BubblemanShe was a French nun. French nun, Sœur Diminil. She ended up being in charge of the entire covenant for the province after she left that school, but let's just say that it was very religious.

2:01:03Etienne FontanDid they use physical discipline on you? Oh, God, yeah.

2:01:09BubblemanSuch as? Mostly the strap, which was like, you know... Strap your hand and then let it swell up a little bit and then strap it another couple of times. That usually got the hardest kid to kind of like whimper and be a little like, oh man, you're sadistic fuckers.

2:01:32Etienne FontanOur nuns had these things called the golden ruler and they would make you hold your knuckles up and they would smack your knuckles and they would make you hold your hand open and they would smack this part of your hand and that was on each hand. That was kindergarten.

2:01:50BubblemanSo that was, yeah, that was Sacred Heart. When I went to John Henderson, that was a little bit different. The first year that I went there, this woman, who was actually a narcotics officer and looked like she was 14 years old, she was buying weed and acid off of everyone. So all the people I made friends with in the school in the first, like, three months, they all got busted.

2:02:09BubblemanLike 62 people in a sting for selling this chick drugs. And there was only 310 kids in the entire high school. It was pretty fucked up. So that was John Henderson. It was kind of a different vibe.

2:02:23Etienne FontanAnd see what happens if you use physical violence against people? We turn into cannabis people. You see what happens? So abuse doesn't work. Stop it now. Exactly. I agree with that, Tian.

2:02:36BubblemanI support him wholeheartedly on that one.

2:02:39SpeakerThat abuse doesn't work? I went to church camp in North Carolina and... I just think about how bad my cousins are and I'm like, I don't know, it just seems like even me as a child would be like, I don't know, I think you need more beatings. You're chewing on the Nintendo cord.

2:03:03Etienne FontanSo Horatio's for more physical abuse.

2:03:07SpeakerNo, when you got sent up to the principal at church camp and then you would go in and there would be this cot where there would already be a kid sucking his thumb and down and whimpering and you're like, what? Because I got sent and I'm from Canada and I'm like, they're not going to beat me, but everyone else of my cousins is in trouble. And they went in and they beat my other cousin and they were like, why do you have jeans on?

2:03:30SpeakerAnd I'm like, because you beat people on your legs. And I'm like, she went to like, well then I'm going to fuck you up for doing that extra hard. And I'm like, I'm from Canada. And then like there was a meeting, a quick world meeting. And then it was like, all right, well, just do phase two of this punishment. You've got to go down this long, dark tunnel.

2:03:53SpeakerAnd there's light at the end of the tunnel, but you've got to crawl on your knees down this tunnel with all the other kids. And when you get to the end, it's just the church auditorium for like Sunday shut down. And it's like, go there and go pray at the altar. So my cousin hits the drums immediately as he gets in there. And it was a rough day when we got back.

2:04:13SpeakerBut discipline in the South is major because when you get home, you get beaten up. For getting beaten at school because you learned your mother's name.

2:04:24BubblemanAh, the Catholic guilt. For all of you Catholics out there that were raised Catholic. Yes, I also went to Sunday school. I did not go to camp, church camp, but I did go to Sunday school and it was a bummer to say the least. I won't go into it any more than that. It just was lame. Who wants to be forced to go to church and believe in someone's like, try to indoctrinate someone into a belief system?

2:04:53BubblemanBelief systems are a very sort of tricky thing, which I started this hash church with talking about belief systems and the Terence McKenna quote, how he believes belief systems is the anchor of mankind. Because people do get kind of like, you believe this one thing and it's sort of, unless we learn how to believe in things a new way, you know, something that's a little more...

2:05:15Etienne FontanThe anchor? It's also the anger of mankind, because we've seen more abuses due to religion than anything else. I mean, look what we're talking about. That's just what we've had to deal with in civilized societies, you know? They went in straight, killed people in Mexico and South America for instilling a belief system. So, you know, everyone has their own right to believe what they believe, but It's funny, you know, people ask why am I an atheist?

2:05:49Etienne FontanI say because I read my Bible.

2:05:56SpeakerI don't know why. I used to joke in prison because everybody finds Jesus in jail because Jesus is definitely in jail. But I used to say that I was atheist except when I'm high and I was agnostic.

2:06:10SpeakerThere you go. A quiver. I like it. It's funny that we're all ex-Cath... that there's a lot of... because, you know, nothing is really going to prep a kid to be godless than raising them Catholic. For real. Oh, yeah. I went to a Catholic school for four years as a child.

2:06:27BubblemanI think for me, out of all of that, the thing that I got the most sort of interest out of when I left all that behind and then, you know, got into psychedelics and cannabis and became older and started, you know, dwelling into different authors... And, ah, I lost it. Dab time.

2:06:49SpeakerI couldn't tell. You found your inner voice. You found out you didn't need these false gods.

2:06:57BubblemanIt was about, really, it was about the 12 planet books. It was when I got turned on to the 12 planet and Zachariah Sitchin, But I found the most, and through those books I ended up reading quite a little bit about the Koran and the Torah and the Bible, which I already knew about because I was forced to fucking read it as a kid at Sunday school.

2:07:16BubblemanBut I found that his sort of story, if you will, because they're all just stories, was the most Almost plausible and founded in like a quasi-reality of, you know, ancient tablets that predated all of these religious scriptures that told similar stories that the scriptures had chosen to manipulate into specific ways to create those specific belief systems. That shit blew me away. And I was kind of amazed more people don't know about the Zachariah Sitchin, the Twelve Planet books, and they're all They're quite interesting to say the least.

2:07:55BubblemanNot definitely going to put you within some hardcore belief system crumble, but definitely worthwhile having in the quiver of knowledge.

2:08:06Etienne FontanIf psychedelics were more accessible, I think you would see the quicker crumbling of organized religions because I definitely credit cannabis as well as other psychedelics and opening up not only just It opened up all the files of my understanding that had been input through religion and was able to put connection causations and able to swing out the bullshit. You can get the basics, what you need, but there's so much semantics and, of course, human-embossed politics that happens in any church, in any hierarchy, who's the deacon, who's the church, who's then the, you know, who oversees them, who oversees Monsignor, who then is the Cardinal, who then is the Pope, etc., etc.

2:08:51Etienne FontanSo, Again, it all comes back to simple control. They try to control us. They try to control you. We just don't control. We don't input. Input does not work. We input it, but we use our logic. And from our own logic, we're able to deduce. But I credit definitely psychedelics and cannabis with opening my eyes further to the understanding that I already knew, more in helping connect the dots.

2:09:24BubblemanAbsolutely. Growing mushrooms, taking mushrooms, and listening to Terence McKenna recordings after reading all of his books was definitely a huge inspiration on me at a time in my life where there was a lot of different roads to take, and I felt like that was almost as valid. That was my university. I was seeking knowledge. And I chose to go down that rabbit hole as opposed to the university rabbit hole.

2:09:56Etienne FontanDid you ever get to meet him?

2:09:58BubblemanNo, you know, I never met Terrence. I met his son, Finn, at a psychedelics conference and hung out with him for the weekend, but never got to meet Terrence.

2:10:12BubblemanOrdered his spores from his company, Sygeny, that he had with Cat in Hawaii years ago when they were still together. We grew those mushrooms in Winnipeg and I just felt like truly one of the times I felt like I was doing some of the most good I could be doing was when I was growing those spores that literally came from Terrence and Dennis' trip into South America when the religious guy, the pastor, had cleared an area for the cows.

2:10:44BubblemanThese mushrooms showed up. These guys started getting spore prints and they were selling these spore prints throughout, I guess, the late 70s, throughout the 80s, and throughout some of the 90s. And we got in right at the end and managed to get a really beautiful spore print. And passing those mushrooms along to people and knowing that they were eating mushrooms instead of like drinking copious amounts of alcohol or doing some other scary drugs.

2:11:09BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

2:11:44SpeakerMark, what do you think about that, the two different lifestyles, mushrooms and the inner journey versus mushrooms and experiencing the outer world? Like, which pathway is, like, you could almost say more spiritually beneficial? If some people only get to try it once or twice in their life, I'd hate to know it was at a concert rather than a closet, if it's going to be that way for most people.

2:12:09BubblemanI think they're both extremely valid. But they're both very different. Like, for instance, one is almost recreational and one is more medicinal.

2:12:21SpeakerYeah, but then I hear your stories about fish and Grateful Dead and I'm like, no, that's when Mark Scaldone, the left brain, turned into Mark Scaldone, the man, and his right brain was kindled. When he tells those stories, I'm like...

2:12:39BubblemanI'll say this much, and this is just my opinion, that the people that are doing that and having the best time are experienced and have already taken fairly large amounts and doses by themselves and with smaller groups of people and are comfortable in the tripping feeling that they can take themselves outside, you know, into an avenue I mean, for me, I've seen people go both ways at concerts, depending on how hard you want to trip.

2:13:11BubblemanHow hard I tripped with my friends when we were doing our whole listening to Terrence and reading his words and all the different people he inspired us to read about, like Rupert Sheldrake, the biologist, and Ralph Abraham, the mathematician. We were definitely putting more of a respectful thing into it and trying to You know, get out to quieter outdoor areas, parks, maybe have a small fire going if it had rained recently and just kind of trying a more safer approach than the let's just take a bunch of mushrooms and go trip balls at the bar or at a concert or whatnot.

2:13:47BubblemanSo they both have their place, that's for sure, but five, six grams of mushrooms, like the doses we were doing when we were doing our heroic doses, that's, I don't know, it's

2:14:00Etienne FontanYeah, but you were experienced psychonauts. You weren't giving that to anybody who was a novice, okay? And you know when you are with, and you know when you are dosed and you are actually with other psychonauts because everybody knows there's a certain grounding that takes place. But I agree, if anybody is only going to do it once or twice, do it peacefully. I mean, don't do it at a concert your first time.

2:14:23Etienne FontanNo, it's called set and setting.

2:14:25SpeakerAnd you have to have your set and setting totally controlled if you're going to do... You know, Tim Leary and those guys were so tuned in when they were trying to not so much tune out, you know, but really understand themselves better. Pretty fantastic, actually. I actually wrote about my experience doing LSD in a book called Psychedelic Trips for the Mind, published by High Times. It was actually compiled by Paul Krasner.

2:14:52SpeakerAnd when I was in prison, I wrote my first story while I was in the hole about my experience coming through cancer and getting high and doing LSD and kind of seeing the value of going through cancer and being sick as a great lesson in my life and It's kind of cool. I think LSD was an amazing, amazing gift to society on so many levels. Truth be told.

2:15:21SpeakerTodd, can you follow that up? Because it was that particular instance where you described the LSD helped me understand, you could almost say my spiritual journey with cancer and how that helps my evolution. And when I asked Dr. Greenspoon about orthomolecular... Thank you for joining us.

2:16:09SpeakerRight. You know, it's interesting that I think psychedelics and cannabis are different in the sense that, you know, in Amsterdam we were calling them, you know, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:16:48SpeakerIt causes you, as Albert Hoffman, the creator of LSD said in Hoffman's Potion, when he first did LSD and he went into the forest and he saw the trees and the bark and he said the way it really was and the way it really was was simply beautiful. And I think that you can see the beauty in things in your life. You know, just the fact that you're breathing is a gift.

2:17:11SpeakerAnd for me, I had gone through tumors A lot, like nine times in eight years. So through my childhood, I knew nothing but radiation treatments and chemo treatments and surgery and all that crap. But then I went through a few years like 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 where I was like healthy and going through puberty and feeling all like little kids do. You grow up feeling everything's going to be great.

2:17:34SpeakerAnd then I got sick again. And I was honestly pretty depressed because everything I had experienced as a child was like coming back and I realized, Fuck, I'm never going to be healthy. I'm screwed. I'm just going to go through this forever. And I was tripping at the time using LSD and stuff. My friends did. And when I would trip, it was like moments on the beach at Scarborough and thinking about the bigger picture, if you will, you know, sitting there and being, you know, a little inspired Carl Sagan in your own mind, you know, looking out to the vast stars and Thank you for joining us.

2:18:23SpeakerWe are damaging our host to the point that we're talking about the human race ceasing to exist because of environmental destruction to our planet or to where we live. Just like a cancer cell attacks me, kills my body, and then dies along with me. You know, and these were things that you don't come to too much if you're not tripping. You know, but when you look at it from that perspective, then suddenly you're just there for the sunrise, and you're there for the beauty of the moment, and it allows you to be very present.

2:18:54SpeakerAnd that's some beautiful gifts, and I believe that, you know, it also helped me to be...

2:19:03SpeakerIn a way, accepting of whatever my life was, be it a little kid that grew up with cancer and wasn't beautiful and wasn't smart or wasn't rich or wasn't all the things that we all hoped we would be, but it was just what I was. And I think LSD made me accept that. And then... It allowed me to kind of move through that and become, you know, what I am today, if you will.

2:19:24SpeakerSo I'm an advocate of psychedelics. I'm not an advocate of bad drugs like cocaine and speed and meth and any of those things. I mean, in a fucked up way, I believe that there should be drug regulation to a degree and the fact that there shouldn't be some kid down the street able to whip up fucking what he's calling moon rocks and feed it to my little sister without somebody in the middle of them because...

2:19:48SpeakerYou know, certain fucking chemical substances can rewire the brain and fuck people up. And I'm not going to be naive to that being a reality. But when that shit gets in the way of pot being legal, I feel like that's fucked the fuck up. And that's why we should all fight against it. I mean, but our brains are a complex conversation for sure.

2:20:11BubblemanYes, that rabbit hole goes very, very deep. I've been enjoying quite a bit of Jason Silva lately, the philosopher online there. He's got some YouTube shorts, just two, three minute clips. It's pretty good, you know. It's sort of Alan Watts-esque, but more from this newer generation and quoting many, many authors that I have read and quoting even more that I haven't. So I always like getting turned on to new words.

2:20:42BubblemanWelcome, Rick.

2:20:44RickWhat's up, everybody? How you doing? Greetings from Maui.

2:20:47SpeakerFrom fucking...

2:20:49RickI'm out here on some paradise shit for a couple more, ten more days.

2:20:55BubblemanAwesome, dude. Please, just enjoy it.

2:20:57RickWhat's up, Jen? What's up, ATN? Big up, everybody.

2:21:04JenHoratio. I'm pretty jealous right now that you're in Maui, dude.

2:21:10RickI wish I could smoke this gas with you. That's all I could say.

2:21:14JenPost more pictures.

2:21:16RickI will, I will, I will. I've just been so busy like with the family that it's not really computer time here. I kind of unplugged. It's even like hard for me to get over here and do this. It's seven, we're three hours earlier. Nice.

2:21:28JenTake lots of pictures of the kids. They'll love it when they get older.

2:21:33Etienne FontanNo doubt. Went to Red Beach. Enjoy your time there.

2:21:39RickLots of waterfalls. Awesome shit. Been trying to make some hash when we Hooked up with some cool people. Maybe this week. Go down, we'll see.

2:21:49BubblemanDude, where are you? You're in Maui?

2:21:51RickYeah, I'm in Maui in Kihei. I'm mobile, so I can get to Makauau. I can get to Lahaina or wherever. I can just hop around.

2:22:02RickExcellent. Let me show you my view, just sitting here at the ocean.

2:22:11BubblemanTropical. So nice. It's just like, how can you not just love that, eh?

2:22:17RickYou can't hate on that. But yeah, still, I'm talking about maybe something good with my dad. He's got a hearing this week, so I'm waiting. On Tuesday, I'll know something.

2:22:30BubblemanHow recent were those words that I read of his?

2:22:34RickWhich ones?

2:22:36BubblemanOh, they talked, it was like him talking about how old you were when he went to prison and like all this. Six months old. Okay, wow, yeah, it felt like it was pretty recent.

2:22:46RickBut I just copied all the quotes that are up on Frida Lisi and posted them everywhere just so people saw what was up there.

2:22:53BubblemanYeah, hell yeah. I saw that the other day. Well, fingers crossed.

2:22:58RickThank you for being a platform to help and just spread the word, definitely spread the word a lot through you guys and everybody's helped a lot. So, I mean, thank you. My dad's very thankful that people are conscious of what he's going through.

2:23:13BubblemanHow can you not, man? It's just so over the top.

2:23:18RickThere's some wild strains out here.

2:23:21Etienne FontanYeah?

2:23:22RickYeah.

2:23:22Etienne FontanWhat kind of genetics are you seeing?

2:23:25RickA lot of Chemdog mixes and hash plant mixes and there's some cookies floating around, some animal cookies and some cookies and cream. But the best thing I've tasted so far is just this straight OG. It's just like OG times 10. So it's, I mean, out of all the things I've tasted, and then there's a weed called Pog that floated around, not Pot of Gold that everybody's used to, the P-O-G it's called.

2:23:55RickP.O.G. because it's Passion Orange Guava. That's a cool one and it's really sticky. Yeah, I'm hoping I can get to work with some of it while we're out here. It's kind of like a very incognito scene because it's not totally ironed out yet with the dispensaries and who can grow because there's dispensaries coming but you can only grow for your own dispensary and there's no dispensaries open yet.

2:24:21RickSo, tricky little loop where everybody's a bit in the shadows right now.

2:24:28Etienne FontanI go to Maui every year, and yeah, everybody is very on the down low, very small, very rare to see anything outdoor. It's usually indoor. Any outdoor that I see is usually northern California.

2:24:44RickThe pog that I found was outdoor, and it was very... Well done, outdoor. But that was the only one out of all of them. So I got you on that. Everything is pretty much super incognito.

2:24:59Etienne FontanYeah, from anybody when I was... I went originally in 2001, and I went and I spoke with the guys who were there because they were running kind of a collective there in Paella. And... Yeah, a cat came in there and they pissed off the locals. And anybody who really says anything on Maui, they just kick in your door, take all your shit, don't charge you, and if you do it again, they come in and do it again.

2:25:32Etienne FontanSo they're just using intimidation, unfortunately, still on Maui, because they also get a lot of money from the federal government. To fly their helicopters for their eradication. So they can't give up that amount of money, unfortunately.

2:25:51RickWhat time of the year do you usually come here?

2:25:55Etienne FontanI come usually for the holidays in the end of the year.

2:25:59RickOkay. Yeah, I always want to come at that time, but I can't make it here because of my kids.

2:26:06Etienne FontanI used to always go in the summer, but when I started to go for the holidays, it just was amazing just how chill everything is, and they're very anti-holiday. It's there. It's kind of kitsch, but the locals and the hospitality in Maui are lovely.

2:26:25RickWhen you live their way and you take the time to really respect them, they give you so much love. It's amazing. It's like all Ohana, straight up. By the way, Horatio, I just wanted to say, Obama let out 46 people, but that doesn't have anything to do with my dad, because my dad is in Florida State, so the only person that can actually release my dad is Governor Rick Scott, so I've been writing him and everybody who's really trying to help the campaign has written him a letter, but yeah, to be honest, Obama just let out 43 crack dealers, one meth dealer and two cannabis dealers, People.

2:27:07SpeakerNo, I expected his thing to be symbolic and a move, like any president that does that, but the hope was that by making that move, even if it was meth heads and crack dealers, maybe your governor goes, you know what, this is just cannabis and I gotta stop this shit. If Obama can free a meth head, so it's the trickle down that may come your way.

2:27:28RickThat's, thanks for, you're right. I mean, I'm hoping that that's the situation.

2:27:41RickNo rig out here.

2:27:42BubblemanJust... No rig?

2:27:46RickI know. I bought a pen, but I'm just sick of using it. And I got some live resin, but I'm like, dude, I'm just on this natural thing for a minute.

2:27:54BubblemanYou know what I do when I'm in places with no rigs? I end up, like, at night when there's a fire, I just pull a little coal out of the fire that's burning clean and just... ...go down straight on that coal.

2:28:06SpeakerGuatemala. Yeah, where's your glass bottle with the...

2:28:14BubblemanDerbs.

2:28:16RickDerbs time.

2:28:19JenYou know what surprised me? It's going to be a new thing. Dabbing off the coals. That's pretty great.

2:28:29RickFirst time I ever dabbed was off coals. It's funny. California.

2:28:34BubblemanFirst time I ever dabbed was for sure off a hot knife.

2:28:39RickActually, my back. Actually, yeah. That's true. Gravity bomb hits is actually my first, what I would call a dab.

2:28:48Etienne FontanHot knife for sure for me.

2:28:49JenMy mom was asking why there were burn marks on two of the knives in the drawers. I don't know. They got caught under the burner.

2:29:01BubblemanIt would have been, let me think what year I would have been dabbing now. That was, yeah, that was smoking. Probably by 88, 89, dabbing.

2:29:19SpeakerI didn't learn hot knives until I was 27. But I knew to dab on the hookah pipe by just taking a hot, hot pull and letting the hash oil out I got in England back in the day. But yeah, it was all back in tobacco and honey land. The guy kicked us out of a restaurant because I put weed in it and he's like, no, no, when you come back next time, only hash.

2:29:41SpeakerAnd that was his rule if he wanted to get high in his hookah bar. And that's when I learned dabbing.

2:29:51RickThat's hilarious. My first dab with a torch was at the Gray Area. I'll never forget that shit. Gray Area. John was like, you want to try this? And I was like, dude, yeah, do you think I could drive after I smoke it? He was like, yeah, of course, bro. And I hit that shit and I just remember being like, woo-wee.

2:30:16Etienne FontanIndeed.

2:30:18BubblemanDerbs. Hell yeah.

2:30:22Etienne FontanWell, congratulations. I remember going and getting some bubble gum over at Gray Area. Big fan of the Gray Area. Yeah. The red and gray area is awesome. The gray area is awesome. But Katsu's better. You ever been to Katsu? No, I do rep. Oh, my goodness, yeah.

2:30:42BubblemanBack in the day, for certain. I think the Katsu would always enter the Sage 2.0, which was this really nice water hash made from sage, which was a beautiful sativa that the THC guys at Adam always had. The H2O, yeah, they flattened it out in the laminator, and it was back before people were really used to seeing hash like that. Adam, of course, was way ahead of his time, no doubt about it.

2:31:14Etienne FontanFor a variety of things.

2:31:16BubblemanFor a variety of things.

2:31:18Etienne FontanWell, that was the hashless, that was the paperless joint.

2:31:25BubblemanYeah, paperless joints as well, but no, this was even different. This was just straight entries into the cannabis cup. There were little pieces that were like flattened in the laminator. They had like a cellophane with color and you could hold it up to the light and see through. And it was, no one else was entering like that back then.

2:31:47Etienne FontanDid not see that. That sounds pretty cool.

2:31:51SpeakerAlright, I got one last question for Mark and Todd and anyone else who has this experience before we leave psychedelics because I know the crowd's been angry at our flip-flop subject jumping to everything but hash, but when it came to your mushroom experiences, did you ever combine them or LSD with high concentrated, like concentrated cannabis? Did you ever amend it that way in your trips or was it all just one phase?

2:32:17SpeakerOh my God. Personally, I never did anything without cannabis. Cannabis has been my best friend through every life experience since we've met. Exactly.

2:32:29Etienne FontanYeah, I've not done psychedelics without concentrated cannabis. I mean, so I wouldn't know it without it because... Yes, you have.

2:32:38SpeakerYou've done acid without having hash. Don't BS. You've only had... You had weed, not concentrated cannabis. Oh, I did later. Well, the reason why I'm asking is because I don't know. I'm like, wait a minute. You don't know much about mushrooms without cannabis. Maybe I only do things twice. Can I tell you something funny? So mushrooms became legal in Amsterdam in the winter of 1996. The government in Holland had some epiphany and made basically fresh and dried psychedelic mushrooms legal.

2:33:14SpeakerAn ecological drug? And I was annoyed because I was like, when did cannabis not become an ecological drug? How did that happen that suddenly cannabis is not an eco drug? But okay. So they legalized mushrooms based on the naturalness of them, but whatever. And this is when the mushroom shops started popping up all over the place. And it was really cool because some of these places like Mystere 2000 had, Hash nights where you would, not hash nights, but cannabis was okay and tobacco was okay to smoke, but they would let people in for an hour and they had mushroom tea.

2:33:52SpeakerAnd every table would get mushroom tea and everybody would start tripping like an hour later. And it was a fantastic experience. I mean, to be in a room full of people tripping on mushrooms was amazing. And you would be having conversations with people on the other side of the frigging room like they were sitting in front of you. That was amazing. And then, like, I remember one person standing up and saying, I would like to recite a poem.

2:34:19SpeakerAnd every single person in the room just shut up and looked at him. Like, total silence. Like, it was just unfreaking believable. And the person said this nice little poem, and everyone's like, oh, that's really cool, and went back to talking, and it was just like, I've never seen a group attention ever being tuned in, like, that way. And the only alcohol that they were serving was in the elixirs at the bar, because they had, like, energy drinks and energy elixirs made from different herbs, and the herbs were, in some cases, like, alcohol-extracted.

2:34:50SpeakerBut that was it. Nobody was like drinking Heineken's or it was just a mushroom tea and smoking your joints and your tobacco and your hash because it's friggin' Amsterdam at the time. But... When they legalize psychedelics, I think it's going to be a beautiful thing because you're going to see this type of communal experiences happening that was profound and really profound in the way that I've been to nightclubs and I've been to comedy clubs and I've been to bars and I've never ever ever had conversations with people across a not so loud room, ironically, of considerate, thoughtful, tripping people.

2:35:33SpeakerAwesome. Have you ever been there and bought mushrooms and done mushrooms? Mark, you've been to Amsterdam a lot. You know the store is illegal.

2:35:40BubblemanThey're called, of all things, what? Smart shops. Smart shops, 100%. I have had many different varieties of mushrooms in Amsterdam and had some good fun tripping in Amsterdam. It's especially trippy because the city has this intensely heavy vibration. Before I tripped in Amsterdam, I got really used to tripping in forests. And in areas that maybe didn't hold as intense of an energy or a history, and then when I went to Amsterdam and tripped, I mean, it was, there's, I always managed to hold it together nicely, especially walking around outside, but I always felt this underlining intensity of like, you know, you'd walk around this corner and be like, Oh yeah, they burned witches at this church.

2:36:26BubblemanRight here, they burned people alive. All of a sudden you know that, and you're like, why do I know that? I want to go know something else somewhere else now.

2:36:42BubblemanI prefer being in the forest when I'm on large doses of mushrooms, I have to admit. And someone asked if I've ever experienced, or not me, but someone asked about experiencing telepathy. Which I think Todd was mildly talking about, about talking across the way with someone. Potentially, maybe they were talking with their head than they were with their voices. I have no idea.

2:37:04SpeakerNo, you know what it was? The room was so oddly quiet. It wasn't quiet, but everybody wasn't yelling. There was no competition for voices or attention in a really weird way. It was almost like everybody's egos was mutualized and people were just communicating. And you could... You were looking at people right in their eyes. You were looking across the room and seeing people and acknowledging them rather than ignoring them because they were at a different table with a different group of people.

2:37:34SpeakerIt was an interesting experience. For a few moments people got together and played some instruments that were sitting around and You know, we tuned into that, and we tuned into talking, and it was really an amazing group experience. It was one of the first times that I know of it happening in Amsterdam, and the way they did it is we all got there at a certain time, like 9 or 10 o'clock, and they let us in for an hour, and then they closed the doors, and you could leave, but there was no new admittance.

2:37:59SpeakerSo, you know, this is where set and setting was such a big deal, because they wanted to create a situation where, you know, people couldn't come into our trip and, like, penetrate our bubble of It was a special night at Mystere 2000 to celebrate the laws changing and our psychedelic rights. How weird is that to say, psychedelic rights? But truthfully, that's how we felt. We should have the right to explore our own mind the way we have the right to explore the planet or space or what have you.

2:38:40Bubbleman100%. Psychedelics are an important prosthetic for the mind to travel farther than it can under the current conditions of the five senses. So you don't need to convince me. I'm a huge proponent of psychedelics. And the one time I really had what I would call a very close to telepathic experience was on a very high dose of mushrooms with a good friend of mine named Chris Lee.

2:39:07BubblemanAnd we were out in the forest, out in Birds Hill Park in Manitoba, outside of Winnipeg. And he was an incredible drummer. Like, this guy could drum like you just wouldn't believe. He was one of my inspirations to learn hand drumming. But he was really good, and I really wasn't that good. And we were both on a very high dose of mushrooms. And he sat down with his dune back and started playing this incredible rhythm.

2:39:31BubblemanAnd I was playing a big thin drum called a tar. Very thin and very sort of... Thank you for watching.

2:40:02BubblemanTo this day, it makes my hair on my arms stand up when I think about it.

2:40:05SpeakerWell, do you guys know that Dr. Lester Grinspoon also penned a book called Psychedelic Drugs Reconsidered? And he has actually been at the forefront of psychedelic drugs and their use in things like PTSD and trauma and other things. And it's weird because he and I met through cannabis and then later we were talking one day and, well, actually, to be more blunt, I had been up all night tripping and he called me on Skype and when he saw me, he was like, something seems different.

2:40:40SpeakerAnd I was a little like, didn't know what to say because, you know, and I was like, I don't know how you feel about LSD, doc, but, you know, I was doing that and he was like, Todd, I wrote Psychedelics Reconsidered. I just started laughing. But, you know, ironically, he told me that he's never done acid. And I was like, how can you write? How can you even almost grasp what we're talking about if you haven't done it yet?

2:41:09BubblemanBut has he at least done, like, some other psychedelics?

2:41:14SpeakerYou know, I will quiz him more on it. You know, we were just talking about LSD at the time because when he was younger in psychiatry, you know, he was, you know, this was his body of study. And so LSD was a huge topic of conversation, obviously, both politically and within academic circles. So, you know, it was another taboo that I think once he got over realizing he was wrong about cannabis, right?

2:41:40SpeakerJohn Lennon and Dr. Lester Grinspoon testified for John Lennon in one of his cases.

2:41:54SpeakerAnd I believe it was really John Lennon that had an impact on Lester Grinspoon's thoughts on psychedelics. We could ask him about it sometime, but from the conversations I've had with Lester, I believe that was the way things kind of evolved for him. Because as a scientist, I think his beliefs build on truths. So he learns truths and then goes from there.

2:42:19BubblemanVery cool. Well, you know what? You don't have to do something to reconsider it, I suppose.

2:42:28SpeakerNo, you just got to look at the facts and think about it. I encourage people, the book's still available on Amazon and everything. His other book, Marijuana, the Forbidden Medicine, is also worth looking into. These stories which were anecdotal at the time have become the mainstay of medical marijuana acceptance in today's times.

2:42:51SpeakerOn the subject of Amsterdam, in the UK, mushrooms were legal for most of my age life, up until my early 20s. I never had any interest in trying them, and then all of a sudden in the UK, they changed the laws from mushrooms being fully legal to being an explosive drug, alongside heroin and other drugs. And at that point, it kind of threw me into a suspicion of, hmm, why would they do that?

2:43:21SpeakerAnd I literally, within a week of them doing that, flew to Amsterdam, pulled mushrooms, got on a plane, and sat there and did mushrooms. And it was definitely one of the most detrimental effects of any experience in my adult life, and definitely something that I was happy to have done. And yeah, the way they tried to make it a fear thing, and

2:43:45SpeakerIt was a bit choppy for me. I'm not sure I really got much of that. I didn't catch any of that. It was choppy for all of them, too. Damn. That sucks.

2:44:14BubblemanSorry about that. Sure, something's wrong with your mic or something. It came in really choppy. I'm going to get that figured out.

2:44:20Etienne FontanIt could be the wire or something.

2:44:25BubblemanWell, we have talked a lot about psychedelics, but you know what? Hey, psychedelics have been an important part in my journey. I'm not going to deny it. Definitely more so mushrooms than LSD. Always had a unique relationship with mushrooms from the growing of them. Finding them in nature and just picking them and it's good. I've always loved them. I have a big appreciation for the mushroom. But I have more of an appreciation for the glandular trichome head that looks like a mushroom.

2:44:59BubblemanI remember showing Paul Stamets, who many of you must know as he's one of the... If you want to learn about mushrooms or you want to learn about... That particular, you know, the fungal group, Paul Stamets is an incredible place to start. He's a mycologist who's inspirational to say the least. He's got some incredible theories and ways to potentially heal the planet using spores and funguses. And he's definitely someone, he's got so many books, you just punch them into Amazon and pick one.

2:45:34BubblemanMy favorite personal book by Paul Stamets is is psilocybin mushrooms around the world, I believe it's called. And it's an identification tool book that you can go and look for mushrooms. And there's ways of telling, taking the spore prints and seeing what colors they are and different ways to tell if the mushrooms are safe for consumption or not. And of course, when in doubt, just throw them out.

2:46:00BubblemanDon't poison yourself with... With gallerinas or other deadly mushrooms that look a little bit like the psychedelic mushrooms, be careful when you're doing these things. But definitely, the book's worth getting whether you want to go out and pick mushrooms or not.

2:46:22BubblemanGood old psilocybes. My friend Alan used to call them psilocybes. Let's do some psilocybes. Some hallucinogens. You guys down with some hallucinogens?

2:46:39Etienne FontanThat's hilarious. Oh man, I, yeah, even for myself, post-war, LSD, without a doubt, along with cannabis, heavily grateful for it, for helping me with PTSD. But, you know, more so cannabis over the long hill, but, you know, Short or intermittent doses of LSD in the right environment was very conducive to coming back to caring about human beings again. So, yeah, safe environments, all about safe environments.

2:47:18BubblemanSomeone asked if you can overdose or die on mush. Now, I think he's asking about psilocybin mushrooms. I would definitely say... That you can eat enough to squash even the strongest ego. And that the death of that ego may not always feel like an enjoyable experience depending on how hard you're holding on.

2:47:40SpeakerBecause the harder you hold on, the tighter it hurts when your knuckles rip off.

2:47:47BubblemanWell, as Terrence once said, these substances do not bathe the ego in a cloud of certitude. That's one of my favorite Terrence Mechanicals. It's like, whoo, anyone that's ever delved over the edge and fallen into the abyss, you'll know this. I don't think there's anything scarier. I mean, it must be how they incited religious belief in people. They must have just, like, dosed them and been like, all right, we'll just dose this motherfucker.

2:48:18BubblemanNo one else knows what dosing is.

2:48:21SpeakerWell, you know what, Bill and Mark? Here's my little tube of it.

2:48:26BubblemanWhat's that?

2:48:28SpeakerIt's Ergot. Ergot. There you go. So on Albert Hoffman's birthday, these were passed out at his birthday party when he turned 100, and it was this little glass sealed container with basically the fungus Ergot, and it celebrates his 100th birthday and also the...

2:48:55SpeakerThe discovery of LSD from the alkaloids of ergot. Albert Hoffman synthesized LSD for the first time in 1938. Ergot is toxic. Do not ingest. Keep away from children. Happy tripping. Which doesn't really say happy tripping, but... It's kind of cool. But people would eat this, and they would have religious experiences, and one could argue that now we understand where a lot of the religious fervor came from.

2:49:20SpeakerIt was people eating drugs, eating plants that contained what we now know to be psychedelic agents that are very rare, and causing people to basically see God. Come back thinking, wow. Isn't it funny that those drug experiences are the start of a religion, but then the people who practice the religion would refute the drug that actually teaches you to be the person that you're inspired by? It's like the actual guy that starts the religion...

2:49:48SpeakerHowever we got into this conversation without Chris Bennett is amazing to me, but yeah, well, the real person for this right now is actually sadly not with us right now, but... You know, it would be fun sometime, Mark, to have Chris on talking about the origin of beliefs because a lot of them are drug-based and people interested in seeing it should look up Chris Bennett's work because he spent a lot of time writing a lot of very historically accurate stuff to try to really sort through myths from realities and try to link together, you know, what plants we know were available to what they kind of used as conceptual names, if you will.

2:50:23BubblemanYep, no definitely. He's got it down like nobody I've ever met. He knows the shit inside and out and he's really quite passionate about it. So it's too bad that he didn't come in right when we were discussing this. I guess next time I invite him in I'll have to make sure we start with that conversation so we don't miss the opportunity.

2:50:45SpeakerYou know what, I would definitely agree because I mean taking, you know, it's like an opportunity for people to not only experience other people but to like experience what their expertise is. You know, when I think that with guys like Rob and Lester, you know, I know this started off so casually but we should start actually making a list and checking it twice.

2:51:06BubblemanI agree 100%. I'm all about the list and checking it twice. It's nice to have a few things organized each week for the people. Otherwise, it's just really what you get right now is like just kind of us chatting about, you know, puffing bowls and discussing different things that we see throughout our week and different things that we think about.

2:51:30BubblemanNo shortage of that.

2:51:32SpeakerYou know, I love all this flower rosin that I got all auto-buttered sitting on my desk.

2:51:44SpeakerBut it's really tasty. You know, what do you think the shelf life is for a lot of these, you know, oils? I mean, now that we're starting to see things like, you know...

2:51:56BubblemanI think it depends on whether you're asking about the definition of the shelf life based on someone, what they're seeing and how it's reacting to their dabber versus the reality of the science which is what is going on in this product that's making it do this and is that better or worse or neither and why.

2:52:27SpeakerI've heard auto buttering is neither. I mean, when I get stuff that shatter and it gets warm and it turns into whatever, it doesn't really bother me. It gets me just as stoned. I mean, in some ways it releases the terpenes a bit and it smells a little bit more sharp.

2:52:45BubblemanAs long as there's no bacteria counts. As long as whatever that moisture is present hasn't trapped any bacteria, I can't imagine it being bad either.

2:52:58Archive SeedsIf it's not shattered, it don't matter.

2:53:07Archive SeedsNo, I think it's just a natural process. You know, I think it's a neither thing. You know, stuff, you know, food degrades. Things, you leave it out and it, you know, changes consistencies. You know, whether it's a fruit or bread getting mold on it or whatever, you know. Like you said, I think we need to find out scientifically before we jump to conclusions in terms of knowing.

2:53:31BubblemanWell, I like the idea because then we have a stick to judge based on, okay, we know that when we pick the apple too early it's highly acidic, but when we pick it too late it starts dying off and it softens. So there's this sort of like area that's in the middle of the stick that people prefer to pick that apple at. And it would just be neat to learn the science behind the different strains and the different resins that grow on these different strains, grown in different conditions, how they, you know, what would be considered an ideal situation if you wanted this particular thing or an ideal situation if you wanted.

2:54:11BubblemanIt would just be nice to have all of that information be a lot more known than... Well, and how those environmental conditions can affect...

2:54:22Archive SeedsThe volumes of all kinds of different terpenes, cannabinoids, all that stuff, and how that's going to change and make your hash or whatever product you're making react differently.

2:54:36Etienne FontanWell, that's also making us as dispensaries, we're wondering also where along the chain do we have to be refrigerating things, maintaining things. Now we have to have safes that are refrigerated, you know, Thank you for joining us today.

2:55:21Archive SeedsYou know, we can't really figure that out until we have more knowledge. I mean, we're only looking at, you know, maybe 10% of, even these, you know, 40 terpene tests and testing for how many ever cannabinoids, you know, there's hundreds of cannabinoids, potentially hundreds of different terpenes, phyto cannabinoids, all kinds of other stuff, and how different volumes of those and different concentrations of those can affect, or just the presence or non-presence of some of these can completely affect the different

2:55:54BubblemanI think it's a big reason why people remember the hash of the 70s a little differently. They remember these exotic hashes that were probably contained cannabinoids that were almost never found. Remember when plants are tested these days, they don't find a lot of other cannabinoids in them because Prohibition did a wonderful job of breeding the majority of them out. For the reason of monetary gain, and everyone wanted to grow a specific molecule, they wanted to promote THC over everything else, they didn't even realize that by cutting out these long flowering strains and some of these exotic strains that you lose profiles that don't grow in six weeks, that don't flower that quick, that don't grow that short, that won't ever produce that much yield.

2:56:46BubblemanAnd so it's unfortunate. I hope that we can somehow recapture back those land-raised phenos and traits and sort of bring the best of both of those worlds. Because I'm not saying what we have is terrible. I love the strains that are out there. And there's some incredible resins to be made and flavor combinations that have been produced over the last 20 to 30 years. But I'd love the best of that world.

2:57:12BubblemanTo coalesce with the best of the land race world where you've got these really exotic profiles that very well may have CBT or more CBG or CBC or some other cannabinoid that isn't being present in a lot of these indoor grown prohibition driven strains.

2:57:32SpeakerWell, Fletcher, didn't you, was it you that mentioned, someone mentioned earlier, oh, I've got this strain and it smells like, you know, crazy, weird, and I'm like, it must be sandalwood and those old school smells. That's what I want. That's what excites me. Where most people go, oh, that smell, yeah, you said it smells like incense. And I'm like, yeah, give me that. That's where I live.

2:57:53SpeakerYeah. A lot of people would be like, it smells like, you know, which kind of restaurant, and I don't like it. So there's people who do seem to be attracted to Kool-Aid, and, you know, all the strains go that way, but I want your strain.

2:58:08Archive SeedsWell, and like Jeff and I were talking about earlier, you know, genetically, some of these odors that we are associating with strains or effects or whatever... Could be our perception of what could be genetic markers that this smell means that this plant typically has, or in most genetics that we have today, these cannabinoids or concentration of these cannabinoids or terpenes, and you're attracted to that, like you're saying.

2:58:40Archive SeedsAnd it's a family or a group or an association that you have personally that makes it attractive and that makes all these different strains, you know, attractive to different people.

2:58:52SpeakerWell, I mean, each flower, I mean, they test roses and they can give you the megahertz of the smells coming off of that. They never obviously test cannabis, but they absolutely are giving off unique. That's why we smell to decide mildew, yes, no. Do you think it'll put me to sleep? Yes, no. I'm going to get hot. Thank you for watching.

2:59:39SpeakerIt resembles something that I'm familiar with and along the path, Master Kush is the same way. Like they're that spicy old school, it works for my type of anxiety type person. It's what I'm looking for. So I think that's the study is really understanding the smells and the parallels. Because other people know that shit about 52,000 different terps in aromatherapy. And if we can use their data to help understand our cannabis, like, our shit is like 10 of those recipes altogether.

3:00:09SpeakerSo if we pull that apart and it's like, well, it smells like bergamot, it's got a little bit of sugar, it's citric, and it's this, holy shit, that's a recipe for arthritis. When you put that, when you follow those other turps out, it's the same program. And that's what makes cannabis so interesting, is I know their prescriptions, it's just people have to become more sensitive.

3:00:31Archive SeedsWell, it's like Jeff and I were talking about earlier, too. Some of these cannabinoids may have flavors as well. It may not just be the presence of these terpenes, but without the presence of this cannabinoid, it doesn't complete the flavor for a lot of people, thereby completing the effect, potentially. When we're looking at such a small fraction

3:00:57Archive SeedsThanks for watching. I'll see you next time.

3:01:10SpeakerI mean, we've got really, really small fractions of terpenes that are present in the plant right now. You know, we're only testing for a very few of them. Just with CBD alone as a cannabinoid, we all know that there's a really cherry flavor that comes from having CBD in there. So that's a flavor. It's not flavorless. Is that really a terpene that's brought along with CBD always or is that just the CBD or is that another cannabinoid that's present when you have CBD present as well because it's something that breaks off in the formation of CBD.

3:01:49SpeakerWe really don't know. I think we need to get a lot more of the qualification testing so we can tell what are all these constituents and really study it further.

3:02:03Archive SeedsThe difference when you have a pure CBD or pure THC, that's going to be way different than a plant that's What you get with a plant that's high in that stuff. High CBD could be a genetic marker for a lot of species of plants to produce this terpene potentially. I don't know.

3:02:25SpeakerDr. Consider it one way. I almost feel like my body knows when THCV is there because it's only happened a few times in my life and it was like I remember whatever that Durban poison stuff was it changed everything and then it would be eight years later before I'd ever come across it again and I'm like holy shit that whatever that is I know it healed something in my pineal gland um deep in the back of my head but also going back to the cherry of CBD whatever that cherry aspect within humans it's used in a whole bunch of other medicines it obviously means soothing And where you find soothing, you'll find anti-inflammatory.

3:03:07SpeakerBut look at it this way. They say like CBN is responsible for the sedative effects of, you know, indicas that people like. And I'm like, I don't know. When I tried to get my CBN up, it just gave me more of a headache. But in combination with Myrcene, now I could see why if Myrcene and CBN are present, these create couch locks. And make much more, you know, you're going to get way more couch lock from a terpy CBN strain than just raw CBN.

3:03:36SpeakerSame thing with the THCA. The point was to see how it interacts with the terp and could it reproduce that effect. And if it does, then we have a recipe. You know, what do you think of this too? Because I think that the tests have kind of set us off on the wrong path. Because You know, we kind of tend to treat cannabis like it's a drag race, and you know, the kids that had the highest THC were cooler, and you know, you have, you know, the Emerald Cup with, you know, it's outdoor pot boasting 32% THC, and it's laughable, because, you know, not to sound rude, but You know, there's no way I can believe that, you know, 32% of that bud, that stem, that vegetable material, that resin is friggin' THC.

3:04:19SpeakerAnd, you know, and when they were like, well, why do you say that? I'm like, well, what's the highest THC you've ever tested? Dry sea vat because there's no stem, there's no vegetable material, and that's only in the 40s and 50s if you're lucky. The thing is I think that we have been going down the wrong path in that we're trying to get high expressions of single cannabinoids when in reality we should be trying to get a whole pizza.

3:04:44SpeakerWe should be trying to get a balance of cheese and dough and sauce and spices. And sometimes other toppings that make that pizza unique. And, you know, not trying to just get cheese. You know, I got 89.6% THC, you know, and nothing else. And where'd the rest of the plant go would be the question. Where's the rest of the terpenes? Where's the rest of the cannabinoids? Because together, that's what makes this joint unique.

3:05:08SpeakerAnd that's the chemical signature that the plant makes as a whole. But when we start taking it apart... I don't know. I don't find the THC and the CBD alone and things to be as exciting as they are when they're together with all their counterparts, especially with the terpenes in whatever concentrations they were in naturally on the plant, because that's what makes that flower, that strain, that joint So unique, at least I believe, and that's what we should be going for in hash.

3:05:38SpeakerWell, the only reason I go in that experimental route is because I'm like, what if this guy didn't grow it to its fullest potential? If I can concentrate out his terps and concentrate down his THC, I could see how far the same two things that were in the one strain Thank you for joining us.

3:06:11SpeakerThank you for joining us.

3:06:31SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

3:07:03SpeakerWell, there's always rosining two types of dry sift together. I mean, I assume Tony's just about to show up and do it. But that's kind of the only, it's like hearing GHG is bland. It does this, this, and this. I'm like, well, you know, I need to do more than, I'm that, it's, I'm that guy. That's like, well, let's see that out. This is why I can, once I have the terps.

3:07:24SpeakerThank you for joining us.

3:07:35SpeakerLike, when I smell that smell that's, you know, the minute in, you could say, Durban poison, the THCV is minute. If the strain became THCV dominant, like when we get all CBD, would there be certain terps that would become overwhelming and unique? So I'm kind of like, is that got sandalwood? Could you breed that till it was all sandalwood? Because what we may find is some lost cannabinoid comes with when you breed up that particular smell.

3:08:01SpeakerAs a way to look for it, find the lost terps and you'll find the lost cannabinoids because that have been bred out.

3:08:12BubblemanSorry, I was just reading Hash Church. Welcome, Cuban. You made it.

3:08:17CubanWhat's up, brother? Can you guys hear me?

3:08:20BubblemanI can, yes.

3:08:23CubanYeah, this is my third headset since Hash Church. They keep breaking on me. So I bought a good set this time.

3:08:32BubblemanAwesome, so you were pressing some rosin up or what?

3:08:34CubanYeah, I have a table that we use for, in the dry sift lab, they're like picnic tables. So in between the crack of this folding picnic table, right, the dry sift, or the resin seems to over time collect in that groove. Oh, my wife calls it the stash spot. So we collected all that resin that, you know, over the course of time had fallen in there. And I made a pretty good morning patty.

3:09:04CubanNo, not bad.

3:09:05BubblemanNice.

3:09:07CubanCheck it out. I can't say it smells like, you know, one terpene over another because it smells like a bunch of stuff, but it looks good.

3:09:16Etienne FontanWhat are the flavors?

3:09:19CubanI have no idea. No, probably a lot of hazes. Yeah, it's a bunch of stuff. While we're sifting now... My friend at West Coast Cure put me down with the trim bin of the Paris OG, the Vader, and the Hardcore. So we are starting a dry sift project, bringing 99% dry sift Hardcore to the LA market. It's going to be pretty cool. That's my favorite terp, so I can't wait because I'm going to get to smoke my favorite resins.

3:10:00BubblemanNice.

3:10:02CubanIt was the only BHL I was smoking at the time, man. And, you know, I have it right here. It's pretty good. It's nice. I won't front, but if I start dry sifting this stuff, I wonder if the days of me smoking BHL are officially over. Because this stuff's pretty dank, man, but dry sift is dank.

3:10:27Etienne FontanHard to beat it.

3:10:28CubanYeah, so Horatio, did you already start talking about the super cropping versus topping?

3:10:36SpeakerNo, I wanted to explain further when there's three sides to it. I have an answer when there are no laws and there are no rules and it's full open market competition with the best ideas on growing plants to their fullest potential and then I have the best way to grow a plant when they say you're only going to get six and I'm trying to get three or four plants.

3:10:58SpeakerAnd I don't believe in topping to bust up and create multiple nutrient pathways versus bending and using light to train the plant to create nodes and keeping axial limbs that come off the main stem Thank you for joining us.

3:11:41SpeakerGoing into it, I wanted to talk about something called the Normandy Technique, which is a way of bending the cannabis plant, training it, using robotic armatures, those little metal sticks with holes in them and you just put a nut in it, so that as the plant grows out, you bend it down and out so that each arm builds A sea of green. You can build a sea of green with one plant, but when you top it, you stop it from being a seven lane highway.

3:12:08SpeakerYou'd say make two four lane highways and you top it again and you say make two lane highways and you top it again and you end up with 61 lane streets to deliver as a nutrient pathway to the bud versus making a plant with eight giant colas that are all the same height, no topping. Like, where do you see, when you see those two different things, or for people who've never heard of the Normandy technique, you can Google it, and it shows up on YouTube, and he's showing, you know, one and a half pound plants grown in basic five gallon buckets, and he's spinning it, and he manipulates his plants, but there's no damage to the pathway, so when he harvests, it looks like those California outdoor grows, but it's inside, and it's within a three feet space that's all cola.

3:12:54CubanWord. Well, I hope that you can still hear me because I pressed the mystery button on my headset. So I don't know if that was for me. Okay, so I like to do both. I like to top my clones because I like that Y formation at the very bottom after the first couple nodes, first structure. So the way I start my plants, I start in a four-inch container.

3:13:22CubanRight? And I'll top early when they're still young so they can start wying out. And then when I transfer and excuse puppy back there, she's barking in her kennel. So when I start the wye and I transplant, I'll put that plant deeper in the pot so once the plant's busting out of the dirt, I'm a 10 gal or 20 gal or whatever the case is, it has a lot of arms just sticking out of the dirt to prevent the stalk from breaking.

3:13:50CubanSo I like that technique for that. But where in Florida I learned how to grow by supercropping, bending the head to manipulate the tops to shoot up. Now the problem with too much supercropping, like when you're doing one plant per light and you're creating a lot of what you're calling like nutrient channels, is that the buds end up smaller. So you create more tops, you get smaller buds, And if you create way too many tops, then your buds are not going to be as nice as your friend's bud that has these spears.

3:14:22CubanBoom, the cold is because he had eight tops. You know what I mean? So there's a very fine balance between root mass and how many tops you can create. So I think the magic number is like 10 gal with 30, like 36 tops creates a nice amount of like mass. And weight, and then you can start achieving two pounds per light. And plus, you know, with both of those techniques.

3:14:52CubanNow, for me, like little metal arms on stems is going to be kind of impractical because I deal with a lot of plants. So training enough, just bending heads by itself is hard. So then I also incorporate three trellis nets as soon as I flip. So I can keep weaving. Now when I flip, I throw the three trellis nets, right? But at that point I have a canopy built with so many heads that I've formed super cropping and I've shaped the bottom by taking all the undergrowth.

3:15:25CubanBut once it's starting to flip and stretch, I just simply weave to give everything as much space and evenness in the canopy as possible. And I guess that's the only mechanical thing I use there at that point. Because it holds the branch down really, really good.

3:15:42SpeakerWell, yeah, because I literally, anything before I do it, I master it. So I was like, yeah, monster crop, we're going to bend it, we're going to crack it, we're going to twist it, we're going to do all these things. And then at the end, I was like, why did I go over to that guy's house and he had six plants and he just spun them around one light and he got three pounds.

3:15:59SpeakerIt seems like this whole system and this net, this is ridiculous. He just grew a plant that could support itself and it's got four stakes. Thank you for watching.

3:16:27SpeakerThank you for watching.

3:16:51SpeakerAll you have to do is keep the fists of the plant in the light and that directs the nutrients by basically feeding the plant light correctly versus just locking it into a scrog neck hoping I filled out my grid and then producing either a shit ton of larvae or just lollipopping it up. Thank you for watching.

3:17:37SpeakerTechnique which grows the best plants most consistently. I hate larf, it's not the strain. I don't like when half of the plant is not really the strain, the true essence of the strain, so I'm trying to work that out. Because so many people don't experience the plant once you lose those terpenes. That's what isolating them, concentrating them, I'm like, what if the whole plant could be like this?

3:17:59SpeakerI think that's what Sea of Green is like. I must grow that way, throw away all my knowledge and try again. It's about growing the most perfect plant and as much of it if you really want to either create your market, heal a condition, or be the best.

3:18:15CubanWell, for sure my biggest issue that I have as a grower is that I'm great at training plants and I'm great at creating tops, right? And a lot of times I don't know how many tops I have per plant because I just have a big tray and I try to get at least two to three branches through each square on a trellis, right? So it fills out and I kind of estimate but I end up having to cut a lot of lower growth off right because I'm working with limited numbers so when I'm trying to fill a limited space of one or two plants to create a plant that's really big up top it gets Really big up in the bottom or down there, you know what I mean?

3:18:52CubanSo I have to cut all that stuff off to redirect the energy or end up with scraggly nugs in the middle that just gets used for concentrate. So what we've been doing, for example, with some strains like cookies, if you super crop cookies too much, the nugs get smaller and smaller per node, right? And they're small already as it is. So instead of using that training concept on a plant like that, that throws like golf ball size nugs, you could put numbers, you know, and like maybe top ones and bend and create like, I don't know, eight tops per plant, but put eight plants per light.

3:19:31CubanAnd at that point, you know, you maybe have the same canopy and dimensions, but the nug size is definitely a lot bigger. You know what I mean? It just depends, man, on what you're growing. What I'm growing for sure at this point, I can't train at the same.

3:19:46SpeakerI don't think people feed their veg plants enough light. So the shapes they get and the fact that it gets all scraggly and you're like, well, I better bend it over. I find that inter-node spacing is like half of the recipe is how much light you give it. It may be looking for a Jamaican sun. And when it doesn't find it, it stretches like fuck trying to balance out the energy it's getting.

3:20:08SpeakerI just think people don't intensely focus on veg. They just kind of, they throw their cheap lights. They throw their bulbs that are degrading. They don't intensely grow the plant to try to mimic where it came from. They just kind of, they live in that genetics. It's got tight internodes, so I'll just throw a fluorescent 10 miles away from the plant, and then they grow something that's full of bud rock.

3:20:29SpeakerUm, because of how they develop it, it just, it seems like people don't intensely meet the plant where its needs could be in the natural situation.

3:20:38BubblemanRemo should do a video just on vegging, because that guy's got vegging down.

3:20:44SpeakerYou know, I think that part of what the loss of conceptualization has really explained is in veg time. And a lot of what it seems like to me the biggest point of confusion is for people that are growing is, How much time does a plant need before they put it in a flower? And anyone who's grown a strain over and over and over again learns because it's growing a clone if it's using the same room in the same conditions.

3:21:14SpeakerHow many days of pre-grow has to get put into, let's say, a sea of green for it to get a couple feet high and finish? So in Amsterdam, what we used to teach people, and we used to actually, you might remember, Mark, we had the show and grow, where we had four 600 watt lights, and we had We would put two of each of the clones that we sold at Positronics out so they could all grow simultaneously so that would show people the different reaction in the genetics given the same circumstances, the same lights, same conditions because we would be trying to explain to people like if you were trying to grow a plant that was very popular called B52, it would make these big buds in like 52 days.

3:21:57SpeakerBut it would stop growing once it started flowering because that would trigger the plant and the more northern plants to shut off their veg cycle and turn on their flowering cycle. And as the plants went south, Thank you for joining us.

3:22:30SpeakerWhile they're flowering. So now this conversation of how much veg time does a plant need is really wrong because the general conversation and trying to group cannabis together as a generally this is what cannabis is going to do if you pop this in in two weeks and it's all bullshit. Because when you start growing different varieties next to each other, they start doing remarkably different things next to each other in the exact same circumstance.

3:22:55SpeakerAnd the only way that I explain this to people is like this. Let's say you want to get a pound of pot in a space with 16 plants. Well, then you're going to need an ounce of plant at harvest from each plant in order to achieve your goal. So then how big does that particular plant, that genetic, have to get in veg so that when you flip the switch and you put it into flowering and it starts counting down and stays to your harvest, that it will take to develop an ounce of Thank you for joining us today.

3:23:40SpeakerWith two weeks of pre-grow, you get an ounce off of it and you achieve your pound. So I would argue that once you get to know your plant, you can achieve indoors whatever really you're looking to achieve, you know, beyond unreasonable expectation. I, you know, hear people talking about, oh, if we can get three pounds of light, it was on TV. The girls, like, we'll make an extra million a year.

3:24:03SpeakerAnd it's like, you know what, if it was that easy. And the truth is, a lot of the strains that yield really great, no one wants to smoke. Go try to get Blue Dream sold in California and see how that sits like a lump at the end of your dealer bag. And, you know, the truth is, is that the plants that we really find interesting, the OG Cush and others, they don't yield that great.

3:24:25SpeakerThey never have. And you can still get over that by getting to know your plant, growing it over and over, monocropping for a while so that you really learn the plant you're growing with. And then learn how much vegetative time that particular plant needs. One tip I got from, of all people, Neville, was that for plants that flower over 10, 11 weeks, you don't even need to pregrow it.

3:24:51SpeakerAnd I watched my friend take 88 cuttings that he took on the 15th of the month. He put them into flower two weeks later when they had got roots. Literally put them into flower two weeks later on the first, and then 10 weeks later, Pulled down really almost 1400 plus grams under 1200 watts. He averaged 16 grams a plant out of 88 plants. And he did that regularly.

3:25:18SpeakerAnd what's amazing is he was growing NL5 by haze, that is a solid 10-week plant, but he learned how to adapt it to its veg time because he realized that he didn't need all that veg time. If he just popped it into flower right when it got a root, that that plant would simultaneously flower and veg until it was finished. And he actually won the 1996 Cannabis Cup with NL5 by Haze, although Arian had purchased it from him, and it was called NL5 Haze by Mist, and ironically it won the Hydroponic Cup, even though it was Soil Grown Cannabis, because it was that good.

3:25:56SpeakerSo... So it does hold up. I mean, that's why I like small plants. He grew the plant to its perfection by, I mean, it sounds like he learned the lighting scenario that it needed. That's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at the fact, I'm like, I want a flower when a plant has 12 internodes up the chain. That's wrong. You know what's wrong? The only reason is because I'm bending it into the seed.

3:26:21SpeakerIf it's going to continue to flower, that's going to continue to grow on you. So if you try to have this generic measure of cannabis, it's way off base. Well, hold on. That's not the whole theory. So those 12 internodes, if I hit a sativa and it's going to now bloom and continue vegging out of my light space... That is why I bend in a C for those style of plants.

3:26:45SpeakerIf someone gives me a cut of a stumpy indica and I do those same 12 internodes, I don't have to bend it. It's going to stay within my space. So I've adapted the technique to match the plant because I want those 12 nodes of potential. And in veg to keep a sativa from pretty much fucking up my cloner, I have to basically move the light a half an inch every day, but I can keep those internodes within two fingers.

3:27:11SpeakerIt's just a matter of feeding that crazy sativa tropical light, which unfortunately means I could burn my plant every day, but I can also keep the internodes tight so that I can lay it on its side and have it grow another three feet in my space. So I adapt to the genetic, but I really, it's the same technique, it's just lowering the plant one more cycle because it's going to veg through my flower.

3:27:38BubblemanI made it back. I got bumped. I thought all of Hash Church was lost in the middle of Todd talking. It disconnected me and well, I'm glad to be back. Welcome back.

3:27:53SpeakerDefinitely. You know, learning the nuance of veg time is really the key to becoming a good grower because even this is how the growers in Northern California are getting the monster plants. They have mastered the art of pre-grow. They grow these plants out months, you know, weeks in advance until they've got three, four foot plants and then they bring these absolutely beautiful vital plants outside and they stick them in a two or three hundred gallon They have a beautifully soiled, prepped, and nutrient-rich smart pot under full-day sun, and they watch them become absolute monsters.

3:28:27SpeakerThis is why plant limits are sort of stupid, because I could grow a dozen little plants and be happy, or you force somebody to have whatever, and they're going to want to make big, giant plants. They can do it, and nature will accommodate. I just hope it changes someday and it's more like grapes. You don't got to count your grape vines. You can just count your good experiences.

3:28:53CubanWord. Man, when we were doing a commercial in Florida, there was no such thing as like a veg time. You'd kind of look at your garden and you'd know if it was filled out enough, if the health looked right. If you had enough tops, it was, you know, ready to go flip because when you flip, there's no turning back. You know what I mean? And my thing is that I realize is because I don't bend my plants in such a drastic way like you do, that the less nodes I have under the top node, the shorter the plant and the less undergrowth I have to cut off.

3:29:32CubanYou know what I mean?

3:29:33SpeakerWell, you know, one of the things Rob Clark pointed out to me that was happening in places like Maui and Jamaica was that there was all this influence of northern strains into these tropical areas in hopes that there would be greater harvests. But what really happened was the plants were not acclimated properly. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

3:29:52SpeakerWe're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

3:30:18SpeakerWe're really, realiztically unable to get any veg time in before they started to flower. So you get these two-foot plants that are just buds that look great on the outside but are moldy on the inside. You know, real common in Maui and other places that are subtropical.

3:30:33CubanYeah, here in the Pacific Northwest too, brother, you got to grow certain genetics because if not, if you grow the ones that throw down the big knockers like the train wrecks and stuff like that, And they're just too tight, bro. They can end up getting mold. So as a grower, you have to sacrifice throwing down weight so you can throw down proper medicine and have more usable fruit.

3:30:55SpeakerI think getting to know the cannabis plant is what we all need to do. And it's like a lot of what we've been growing, I keep saying, we had a box of 16 colors, the 16 weeks of cannabis. We've only been playing with weeks one through nine. I mean, most of the cannabis that is tropical and such, growers haven't had an interest in growing because it doesn't look as good.

3:31:17SpeakerIt doesn't harvest as well. It's a pain. It's lanky. They can't control the veg time. It has a host of problems. Organic fertilizers burn out after eight weeks, so if you have a plant that's 12 or 13 weeks, now you've actually got to consciously be able to fertilize it correctly through its whole There's a whole cycle, and not just organically in some soil because the soil's not going to carry the plant all the way through until it's finished.

3:31:44SpeakerThere's a lot of things that happen, but I believe that we'll start coloring with these other colors and find an amazing array of cannabis and terpenes and cannabinoid profiles that we're not seeing in the plants under 10 weeks. Todd, when you're working on your book, could you add in levels of difficulty of growing, grow room requirements? If you want to step to this, this environment is needed because everyone thinks they can just, oh, just do what I can.

3:32:12SpeakerIt's the, no one has the million dollar grow facilities. Do you want to know what I'm trying to do in this, Horatio? I'm less so much trying to do what like others have done, which is teach you how timers go click and how cycles work and how the garden works. And I'm trying to teach people what we're talking about right now, which is how plants work. Because the grow books, and in all actuality, Mel Frank never was an indoor grower.

3:32:39SpeakerEd Rosenthal's never really been a grower. I mean, Jorge Cervantes has looked over the shoulders of other people and gathered information and visited gardens, and that's his take on things. And the only real growers have been guys like Rob Clark. And if you look at Marijuana Botany and his book, it really, he drew the drawings and he really sat there with the plants and he watched the plants.

3:32:59SpeakerAnd really through that experience, I think you really get to know the plants. And so I'm trying to teach people how the plants work, how veg time works. How flower time works, how to cure, you know, all the effort that goes on after you cut down the cannabis. Because in my opinion, most people ruin the cannabis after they finish growing it. And they do it in a flash.

3:33:21SpeakerIt happens within the first 10 days that the plant's cut down. Thank you for joining us today.

3:33:44SpeakerIf you will, now, how the cat works, not how to skin it. And that's what I'm trying to explain to people and teach people about the differences and strains and how you cannot generalize cannabis is going to do X, Y, Z because really haze isn't going to do what Afghan does. And if people go into a grow thinking that they've got all the answers, they really probably don't have any of the answers because cannabis always surprises me.

3:34:11SpeakerAnd I think the best way to be successful at first is to monocrop, get one plant and learn it. Learn what it requires. Learn how much veg time it needs. Learn how long it flowers best for. Learn how to feed it best. There are a lot of nuances when it comes to growing that are really hard to teach if you're just teaching people how to mix chemicals and hang lights.

3:34:32SpeakerYou know what I mean? Well, no, what I totally mean as it plays into that is people, it's not the mixing chemicals and handing lights, it's the room height, it's humidity buildup, it's all the things that destroy our medicine. So when I'm like, can you go in and explain what, why, If you don't understand this plant, that cheap dehumidifier doesn't create the medicine. The grow room is the failed thing.

3:34:59SpeakerPeople just apply all the strains to their grow room, and they generalize the environment. Dr. I completely concur with what you're saying. Some of the interesting things, which is really teaching people how to adapt their environment to the plant's needs and not vice versa. Realiztically, different plants are going to require different environments to a certain degree. I mean, there is a certain neutrality in indoor growing that you can grow a tropical plant or a northern plant indoors next to each other.

3:35:27SpeakerIt's just you waiting for the time schedule to finish being different, all things said. And it gives us control. I mean, you know, as you grow... You become the master of the plant. The plant shouldn't be the master of you. Sadly, the way we grow outdoors and everything is in the environment is the master of us as opposed to if we were growing legally where all my friends would have really cool greenhouses that were sealed and had filters and had perfect air flow and everything was absolutely nice.

3:35:58SpeakerIt would be a different environment because we could. When you see that change happen, you're going to see a lot of cannabis being grown in a lot more relaxed of a fashion. Thank you for joining us.

3:36:27SpeakerYou know, undermining the prohibition. And it was if everybody was growing their own weed, you know, what are they going to do? Weed win. And so we were trying to teach each other growing techniques and how it can be easy. But what I realized quite quickly as an American grower who got to Amsterdam was understanding the baseline of how different the plants are was the best thing you can do for yourself as a grower.

3:36:52SpeakerAnd experiment with varieties as really as opposed as you could so that you can see the differences in the way they grow under the same conditions and learn realiztically how to be an adaptive grower in your environment.

3:37:08CubanYeah, that's true. And another thing, man, is a lot of people nowadays are obsessed with having more lights and more lights and more lights, you know, as opposed to more atmospheric control, more humidity control, more temperature control. So when you have all those plants out week six, seven, and eight of flower, you can keep the humidity at a proper rate so you don't get mold on some of the strains that are maybe more prone to it.

3:37:36CubanSpend money on filtration. Spend money on upgrading your room to make it just run dialed in and tuned before you step up and add more lights. That was my major fuck up, man. I added a lot of lights. As soon as I moved to Washington, I didn't know my environment, the outside environment. I knew the inside, but it gave me a rocky start for sure.

3:38:00SpeakerYou know, and it's not always the same. I had one person try to tell me that, you know, 4,000 BTUs of cooling per 1,000 watts of light was the rule of thumb. And when I was listening to him talk, I was like, do you live in L.A.? He was like, no, actually I don't. And I was like, how far north do you live that that works? Because you come down to where we live and that doesn't work, you know.

3:38:22SpeakerLike, you're going to need a lot more than 4,000 BTUs of cooling room per 1,000 watts if it's fucking 100 degrees out. And this is where I think you've got to also learn how to be in your environmental condition and deal with that. And learning atmosphere, learning weather, learning your barometer and humidity and everything, this is really the marks of a good gardener. Go back to Farmer's Almanac and start reading that where they predict next year's weather and humidity and everything based on 100 years of looking at it because it's that important of information to the farmer.

3:38:56SpeakerBut as we go forward, I think that more and more legal grows are stepping online in a sense or quasi-legal and they're spending the money and they're doing it right. And you're going to see first class production of cannabis relatively soon in a competitive fashion.

3:39:12CubanNo question. Yeah, man, the environment is very, there's very many dimensions to it. I mean, you know what was the craziest thing? My first cycle was during the winter. And I used to grow in Florida, so it's always hot. You just add AC, you know, because outside conditions are always the same. When it was really cold outside, my grow area is a metal building and it's insulated, but I was getting, my walls were sweating.

3:39:41CubanMy nighttime temps when my lights would turn off, my grow room would get too cold because I hadn't calculated for heat. So instead of keeping like a 78 with lights off, my room is getting to like 59, 58, so on and so forth, you know. It just takes a lot of planning and environmental control takes money, man. And those big grows for sure ain't lacking that.

3:40:05SpeakerWell, ironically, in the Spanish social clubs, one of their biggest expenses right now has been air quality control, and multiple clubs were saying that some of their systems cost them upwards of $100,000 to install, and some of the places had to shut down until they could afford to install proper air circulation and filtration systems according to Spanish standards. And, you know, I think it's neat because back in the early 90s, coffee shops, when you first walked into them, sucked.

3:40:37SpeakerThey had poor air quality. It was stagnant, thick tobacco smoke that made me want to puke. And my eyes burned and my clothes stank. And it was really Arian to his credit that was one of the first guys that started implementing air control and started really turning over the air. One of the things I liked about positronics was the whole place was treated like a grow room and we had air exchange in the whole place.

3:41:01SpeakerYou probably remember that, Mark. It was always quality air and positronics. You know, it's because we had air turnover and, you know, we're not taught that way. You know, he literally saw people smoking and was like, nope, we have to control this. Fresh air in, dirty air out. But he was one of the pioneers in thinking that way. I mean, even general businesses back in the early 90s in Europe were not worrying about the tobacco smoke of their patrons.

3:41:27SpeakerTotally. And now we're becoming way more air quality conscious. And that's also the same thing that has to happen in grow rooms. When people start filtering air in, they're going to have a lot less problem with airborne spores and shit and stuff coming into the room.

3:41:42BubblemanThese are the things we spoke about earlier in the difference between a licensed producer in Canada versus, say, someone growing for a dispensary. One's growing almost on a pharmaceutical level, and the other potentially isn't even growing on a neutral. It's just over the top. Whereas people are just in the meantime in the city able to crop out on a bunch of powdery mildew and just turn it into some quick oil and sell it to the dispensary.

3:42:18BubblemanAnd no protection in any way, shape, or form to the buyer other than buyer beware.

3:42:25SpeakerWe should probably spend a show talking about what to look for, safety issues and stuff, you know, one day, because it is buyer beware and all frankness. I mean, we see some great stuff, but unfortunately I think a lot of people don't.

3:42:39BubblemanWell, I think that more people don't and do, that's for certain.

3:42:47BubblemanWhich would be a nice thing to change and get that flipped over. It would be nice if everyone had access to the best that they possibly could have access to in a variety of price ranges, in a variety of derivatives and processed manners. I guess that's the dream, that's the dream. Let's see what happens here.

3:43:09SpeakerSo will you be getting a denail press soon too? The one that works off of the controller?

3:43:15BubblemanYeah, I have a crate of them at my, just clearing customs, and they'll be at my office or my warehouse next week.

3:43:26SpeakerYeah. I want to see it. I can't wait to see that video. Yeah, that's... I think having that type of control over the heat will be really great.

3:43:36BubblemanAbsolutely. I'm looking forward to playing for sure.

3:43:39CubanYeah, I can't wait to see it. I saw them posted on Instagram... And that's awesome. Those little presses are cool.

3:43:49BubblemanYeah, they've got some plates as well that you can graduate up to like a larger plate set. So we'll see what, to me it means nothing until I can see it and play with it. And I've got all sorts of different hash from dry sift to wet wash that I can press. And I've got herbs, a variety of different herbs that I can Play around with, so I'm looking forward to it for sure.

3:44:12BubblemanI've been looking forward to it for a while. I was supposed to have them quite a while ago, but a little bit of a shipping error made it so that they were delayed.

3:44:22Etienne FontanWe will get them soon.

3:44:24BubblemanI look forward to making that video. Well, I'm going to take one last wicked dab with the 660 viewers that are watching Hash Church right now, and Soon call it a day and let everyone get on with their day. A nice Sunday. I'm sure everyone takes it easy on this day. Except Horatio, he's not taking it easy.

3:44:54SpeakerI was just like, dude, go ahead and say it. I'm not taking it easy and I came in uneasy and I'm leaving uneasy. I finished what I was doing and I'm like, right, I did something. That makes a difference. I'm like, dude, you didn't package it up and you got this other stuff coming. You got two pounds. You got this sweet skunk and you got to sift that.

3:45:13SpeakerAnd I'm like, there's no sleep in my body. What the fuck? You got to sift that. It doesn't work out.

3:45:20Etienne FontanCuban's not taking it easy. Literally, we've been at it all night long.

3:45:26BubblemanLike Lionel Rishi.

3:45:28CubanRelax today, brother. Yesterday I was at a drift event which was so cool, man. Hey, those guys go hard with how they drive, man. They give zero fucks. I saw the craziest shit. These dudes drift like 65 miles an hour, 6 to 12 inches from each other. Sometimes they'll tap each other in the middle of a drill. I don't know, man, but man, wow, I wish I had those skills right there.

3:45:55CubanBut my wife and I got some four-wheelers, so I ragged on mine a little bit. It kind of needs some maintenance, so I'm going to wrench on it and enjoy my lazy Sunday.

3:46:09BubblemanExcellent. That inspires me to get on my dirt bike and go visit the waterfall up behind my house. It's probably not even a waterfall now. It's probably a water drip.

3:46:19CubanYeah, you guys having a drought out there?

3:46:21BubblemanWell, we got a little bit of rain the other day, but it hasn't rained before that, probably for close to 100 days, and we've had many, many days that we're in the 85 to 95 degree temperature range, so many of them, in fact, that a lot of the plants, people's plants, they're dead, their trees are dying, like I leave water out for the birds because I feel bad for those little guys, man.

3:46:45BubblemanThere's like not a lot of puddles of water anywhere for even a bird to find water. So just little things like that that you think about once the water's turned off, right? Once it no longer follows you. Even while you're staring at a giant ocean full of water. It's a strange one.

3:47:03CubanYeah, the grass here is all dead everywhere, bro. Yeah. It just looks bad, you know. It's been hot. But yesterday it rained. Just cool?

3:47:13BubblemanYeah, here too. We got a little bit of rain yesterday. Not too much, but a little bit for sure. And that little bit was helpful. Not like the plants are unwilting anytime soon.

3:47:24CubanYeah, this guy says that it sounds like you're living in SoCal. Man, I will tell you what. I was in SoCal and it is dry, man. It looks like the desert, like Las Vegas. Dry as hell.

3:47:37SpeakerMan, the only place you can see water is in rich people's swimming pools.

3:47:42CubanOh yeah. Hey bro, on the plane I would look down and I would see these like grooves in the land that you could tell a river or stream or something once was there, you know. But it just wasn't when you look out the plane. Another crazy thing is when you're on Google Maps and you're driving and then you're like entering like, you know, some sort of a channel or something or like where there should be a body of water.

3:48:05CubanOn your phone it says there should be but when you look to the right and to the left it's dry as can be, dude.

3:48:10SpeakerFucking crazy. North of Santa Barbara, I cut through the other day, and where it used to literally be a whole lake, there were people driving around on the basin. I was, like, shocked.

3:48:24CubanYeah, man.

3:48:27SpeakerThat's very bad.

3:48:29BubblemanYeah, for sure. Well, you know what, baby? I don't know enough about it, but apparently, like, 80 billion gallons a year goes into fracking. Which seems like a lot of water.

3:48:44BubblemanMore than like the top two biggest cities use annually or whatever. I know Vancouver uses quite a bit. We're like over a billion gallons a month, I believe. So 12 to 13 billion gallons for the city for a year. That's a lot of water.

3:49:10SpeakerThey'll learn their rainwater harvesting sooner or later. Everyone will have a barrel all set up to fuck up.

3:49:20CubanOh no. If I had to rain harvest the water of my plants, my plants would have been dead a long time ago. Hey, what do you guys think of your water technology?

3:49:33CubanOh no.

3:49:34BubblemanThere are some pretty big ones out there though, Cuban. If you had a system set up with like Five or ten of the biggest ones and you got them all filled up and then you started using them? I bet you would find it pretty useful. They do that in Jamaica and shit. Huge ones, man. Huge ones that you could move into. I don't know how many fucking gallons they are, but they're definitely ridiculously big.

3:49:58BubblemanThen again, it's the Caribbean. That place fucking rains. Although we're in the Pacific Northwest, dude. It's all about rain. You know how fast you can fill no matter how many you got? No matter how many you got, you can fill them. Over the course of a season for sure.

3:50:14BubblemanDuring the winter. I think it's inevitable that people will start capturing more water.

3:50:27BubblemanWell guys, I'm getting starving myself. I'm going to take my family out for a little breakfast, lunch, brunch sort of thing here in the next ten minutes. So I wanted to thank you guys all for coming out and enjoying some Interesting dialogue on Hash Church 44. We're only eight away from 52, which is one year. 52.

3:50:51SpeakerWell, thanks for doing these, Mark. I think they've been fun. The feedback I get from people is great, and I love it. You know, we try to keep it positive and, you know, share good information. We babble a lot, but in between, I think there's some gems.

3:51:06BubblemanYes.

3:51:08SpeakerI agree.

3:51:09BubblemanWell, thank you guys. We'll see you guys hopefully next week. Know yourselves. Bubble on.