90 Micron Hash and Hashmaking Techniques

0:02BubblemanHey, everybody. Welcome to Hash Church episode 90. Got a little Luton fire in the background, some sweet trichomes. I'm going to do some invitations while we listen to a little bit of this track and we get this 90 micron Hash Church dialed in. We'll send this out.

0:28BubblemanAnd then we will send this out. Geez, I hope everyone's doing great today. Turn that down. All right. Barf Riff. I'm about to invite that character in right now.

0:44SpeakerCannabinoid receptors in the brain and body.

0:48BubblemanHappiness for you and me. All right. Where are we at?

0:53SpeakerTetrahydrocannabinol.

0:57BubblemanOkay. Mark Scaldone will probably be in very quickly. Turn this down a little bit because it's a little bit loud. Drive to perfection. Dried to perfection. Bubble Man spitting verses. Yeah, it's a good tune. Barcode teacup. Welcome everyone in the chat room. We have over 240 people watching. I want to say hi to Ontario Hashish, Gigawatt Kush, Old Brands, Corey, Jimbo Cats. You're a little bit insane, but I'll say hi to you as well.

1:25BubblemanSteve O'Byrne's Realizt, D Old Brands, Kyle, and there he is, Mr. Mark Scaldone. First, as always, with Mr. Skunk Man, Sam. How we doing, guys?

1:36SpeakerFine.

1:37BubblemanFine. Well, excellent. It's Hash Church episode 90. I hope you guys got your 90 micron hashes ready for the day.

1:52SpeakerWelcome, Todd. Good morning, bro. How are you doing this morning? Feeling angry.

1:59BubblemanOh, no. Angry or hangry?

2:02SpeakerNah, dude, you know, it's just like somebody made a comment, you know, you ever get, you know, you remember when we could wake up in this country and not hear about somebody getting shot up the night before and fucking, you know, yeah, me either. And, you know, I don't think, I think we're all getting just sick of it, you know, we're all getting just sick of it.

2:19BubblemanI hear you, dude. I gotta give my buddy Andrew a shout out. He passed away just a couple days ago. I hadn't seen him for a long time, got some esophageal cancer and I wanted to give him a shout out on Hash Church today. His wife Patty and his three children were left behind. It was a very sad story but I think it's perspective and whether you're getting shot up or whether you're getting horrible diseases and getting taken out, life is fleeting and it's precious and so you want to take care and enjoy as many days as you can.

2:54BubblemanDon't get caught up in... You can get caught up in the negative, but hey, today, for four hours, we're going to be laying out the positive, the 90 micron. Welcome, ATN. How are you, my friend?

3:07Etienne FontanOh, I'm doing well, sir, as well as going to be given the bad news this morning, but doing all right.

3:15SpeakerYeah, not too good, huh? Did everybody hear that Trump just announced he's going to legalize marijuana in all 50 states? What is that, April 1st? It actually is funny. And sadly, it'll give him traction. I have now officially a Trump supporter.

3:35BubblemanDid you notice that Sam I.M. is sitting in a 90 micron bag?

3:39SpeakerThat's awesome. He doesn't have his headphones on, though. I know, he lost him. He got too high last night. I'm crushed. He looked cooler than anyone else with the headphones on though.

3:55BubblemanTodd, we can bitch about that to one another in private chat.

4:00SpeakerThat's funny. Oh, I will. Oh, I will.

4:05BubblemanOh, I know. So yeah, today I put the invitation out to some new folks. I'm not sure how many of them will be getting it as they're all... They're all newbies, but I sent out the email to Cuban. Haven't seen Cuban in a while. I sent it out to Solventless Mind, an Instagram account that's just been killing it lately. Hopefully he'll be able to come in. The Dank Duchess, who works with Frenchie sometimes, I sent her the link.

4:29BubblemanI sent the link to Dablogic, to Rastorani, to Wook Sauce Winery, all Instagram accounts that have impressed me when I saw the photos that they were posting, so... Hopefully some of those people will make it out. Also, I'm trying to get into the 3rd Gen family. I spoke with them briefly. They're having a little bit of trouble. They're up in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, hopefully it all works out.

4:54BubblemanAll right, here we go. Dablogic is one email that I never got to send out, so I'm going to send that out real quick. Well, I'm looking forward to this Hash Church episode 90 today, I've got to say. What about you guys?

5:09Etienne FontanIt's one of my all-time favorite Microns. How can you not be excited about it, you know? So much goodness I've had over the years. So I can only thank you and others for that statistical Micron.

5:24SpeakerAnd another historic year of Grateful Dead, right? I mean, 1990 was a big Grateful Dead year, so 90... Last year with Brent. Last year with Brent, yeah. Brent checked out, yeah.

5:35BubblemanYep, 90 micron. I'll tell you, the 90 micron bag didn't always exist. We originally had, well, we had a three bag kit, turned into a four bag kit, eventually got to five and six and even seven. But even at seven, we had no 90 micron bag. We had this giant jump that went from 120 microns and it went down to 73. And of course, everyone loved the 73 because it gave you a nice big chunk and it produced absolute golden quality products.

6:04BubblemanPeople were a little bit shocked when I added the 90. They were like, man, this shit is, it's stealing from my 73. And, you know, in a sense it is, but really what it's doing is it's unveiling those 90 micron or, you know, 74 to 90 micron head range.

6:21Etienne FontanReally people were not receptive to the 90 initially?

6:25BubblemanWell, you know what, I'll tell you straight up, Etienne. People were not receptive to every single bag I added. First one I had three bags. The isolator camp would be like, well, you don't need three bags. We can do the same thing with two bags. And then when I added four and when I added five, it was constantly the same thing. The community reacted like, oh, he's trying to sell us more bags.

6:47BubblemanHe's trying to sell us more bags. And that just was not the case at all. Because people would be like, why do I need Six bags. Why can't I do it with two?

6:57SpeakerUnveiling is the perfect verb, Mark.

7:00Etienne FontanSo then, Mark, what made you decide on the 90, and what made you add the 90?

7:07BubblemanWell, I mean, keep in mind, we were playing around with screen sizes. We were using different screen sizes and seeing what they did, and we were playing around with 100, and we played around with 110, and we played around with 90, and we played around with 80, and Thank you for watching.

7:39BubblemanDefinitely no denying the quality that would come from that bag.

7:46SpeakerWhat I will do is I will breed varieties that only have 90 micron resin heads and therefore you won't need any other bags. Now you're talking.

7:58Etienne FontanSo did you have an R&D team for the 90 or is this just something that you decided, okay, we've tried these, the 90 is going to be the one?

8:08BubblemanWe are indeed a whole variety of bags. Keep in mind at that point in time we had probably gone through dozens of numbers because we were already up to seven bags. This was probably around 2004, 2005. Welcome to the dank duchess. Sheila just came into the room. I'm not sure if she's going to be able to get her microphone and camera going as we did not, we were not able to do the troubleshooting yesterday like I wanted to.

8:35BubblemanEveryone's very busy. But she does have a headset and she said she should be able to get it up and running. Welcome D420K as well. I saw you pop into the room.

8:44SpeakerThank you. Hello everybody. Good morning Sunday. Bong rip everyone.

8:50Etienne FontanBong rip it shall be. Bong rip.

8:54BubblemanYeah, bong rip. That's probably a good idea. Should I turn my bong on? Is that what's going on? I got a nice collection of pipes here today. I got the straight fab, big old, old Classic mothership right there, the big ass mothership.

9:10Etienne FontanI'm doing the same. I've got my straight fab going today.

9:13BubblemanAnd then I got my little mini Taurus as well.

9:16Etienne FontanAww. Look at the size difference.

9:19BubblemanThat's what she said. That's what she said. Hey, welcome, welcome Duchess, how are you?

9:27DuchessI'm fine, thank you, and yourself?

9:29BubblemanIt's funny that we never, ever, ever make derogatory statements like jokes about women, and then literally we have one woman come in and we make a joke about, so apologize for that.

9:43DuchessNo, don't apologize. I mean, it does matter. Size does matter.

9:47BubblemanWell, there you go. Welcome to Hash Church. I've been checking you out on Instagram, checking out your wares. You're making some beautiful hash. You've been working with Frenchie, I see.

9:59DuchessYes, Frenchie taught me back in 2014. It was a totally random thing. When I met Frenchie, it was my husband and I were deciding to move from Florida, and the amount of hash I had seen up until that moment We had had our interaction with cannabis and

10:38DuchessLet's just leave it at that for a while. But I wanted to live in California. I was tired of the paranoia. And when I met Frenchie and his hash, it was just like so ridiculously beautiful. And I didn't know much about it. But I love to communicate, and he likes that. So he asked me to write for Weed World Magazine. And in writing about hash, I needed to learn how to make hash.

10:58DuchessSo then I learned how to make hash from Frenchie. It was really simple like that. And I didn't know he was that big of a deal. Like, I had no idea. I just knew he was a passionate man who loved hash.

11:08BubblemanHe is a passionate man. That's awesome that you write for Weed World. I used to write for Phil back in the day, back in the late 90s, early 2000s.

11:17DuchessYeah, so all I write about is hash experiences. I smoke really great hash and then go on a trip and write about it. That's fantastic. Travel hash.

11:28BubblemanThat's a beautiful thing, absolutely. Yeah. And it's nice to, I like the idea of getting more women on the hash making experience. You know, it seems to be locked into, you know, when you look back at older cultures, like you see the Suomi Laval's book, Hashish, which Todd has on his counter right back there. You see in Lebanon and some of the other countries, it was often the women who were doing the job and who were processing these resins.

11:55BubblemanI know in hemp, when they say the strongest job known to man, which was the, I guess the redding, the hand breaking of the hemp.

12:05Etienne FontanThreshing, the threshing.

12:07BubblemanThe threshing, exactly. So that was also often done by women. You rarely saw photos of men doing the hardest job known to man. It was often done by women as well.

12:19DuchessYou ever see a woman beat a rug? See, there it goes.

12:22Etienne FontanOh yeah, exactly. So, Madam Duchess, how old were you when you were first turned on to cannabis?

12:29DuchessI was really old, 23. And I can say I'm really old like that because I'm 37 now, but 23. I was out of college, I had met this great guy, now my husband. He was so smart, but Nancy Reagan told me say no to drugs.

12:43SpeakerI was out of college, I had met this great guy, now my husband.

12:50BubblemanSorry about that, just had to mute Wook Sauce. These are all some new folks that are coming in, so they're not quite aware of... Making sure the mic is kept down, but you're good to go again.

13:02DuchessI was just saying that I was new to the situation. My whole life was math and science education. I went to the best high school in New York. Then I went to college on scholarship. Nancy Reagan said, preserve your brain. Say no to drugs. But I met this guy who was so into cannabis. I couldn't figure out why are you so smart, but all you want to do is smoke weed all the time.

13:24DuchessAnd it was a piece of glass that got me into smoking cannabis. I just saw a piece of glass that was the most Thank you so much for joining us.

13:55BubblemanOh yeah, hitting the sour diesel. And what about the pipe? Who blew the pipe? I want to pick this pipe.

14:00DuchessIt wasn't anything fancy. It was like, it was just like, it wasn't anything fancy. It looked like a teardrop. It probably was bought at the like corner smoke shop. Nothing amazing. But at that moment, cannabis spoke to me and I realized I was missing out on the conversation.

14:18BubblemanI'm glad that you got turned on and that Frenchie seems like as good as any person to mentor underneath and get learning.

14:27SpeakerIndeed. Duchess, do you know if Frenchie's on his way to my house today?

14:31DuchessYes, he should be on your way. And Bell should be dropping him off, so he should be on his way. He's coming, he's coming.

14:39SpeakerThank you for the update.

14:41BubblemanWhat you showing off there, Etienne?

14:44Etienne FontanWell, actually, I'm smoking some Bubble Man Rosin Sour Diesel, so stuff that we'll be shortly getting into since you said sour diesel.

14:55BubblemanOh, yeah. Well, hey, I guess we should be welcoming Wook Sauce. Your camera's not working. Not sure if your mic was working because I had to mute you. It was quite loud. It sounded like you were on a phone or something. But welcome to Chris as well from The Clear. How's it going? Can you guys hear me? We're honing in. Yeah, we can hear you great. We've got, well, we've got nine people in already, and man, I swear I invited another 10 or 15, so we'll make room over the course of the day for the panel to switch it up.

15:24BubblemanWe do have 700 people watching already here at 916, so I want to welcome all of you guys and gals into the room. I hope that this Hash Church Episode 90 is going to be everything that you hoped it would be. I know that I've had a little bit of Sort of nervous energy, just wanting to make it a real special episode where we give you some good knowledge and yeah, you can... Every episode is special, Bubble Man.

15:49Etienne FontanYou've been providing knowledge for 90 plus episodes thanks to everybody on the panel, etc. So thank you from everyone. Just thank you.

15:57BubblemanYeah, it's been incredible. It's been good fun getting out this information to... Well, who would have known that people were just so... Thirsty for this knowledge right now. It's really nice. I got 90 Sour Diesel, B-Man as well. Someone's saying in the chat room, chat room's moving like wicked fast today. So there's definitely some good folks in the room.

16:20SpeakerI think it's time to have a little trip to... Hey Mark, can I ask Chris Cook a question? Please do. While I got him on the phone, talk about some knowledge. Hey Chris, how you doing buddy? Good to see you again. So I'm actually curious on what your thoughts are on what the nomograph predicts for the boiling point of THC based on your guys' data and your experience.

16:52SpeakerPeople take a lot of solace in everything that Mishulam measured, but they forget that he measured the boiling point under a high vacuum, right? How did they forget that? I don't know. Anybody who reads the paper, it says it right there that this boiling point was measured at this pressure, but again, not everyone Read the chemical literature but the chemists like me do so I mean we can tell you that again the boiling point that's widely reported for THC is under a vacuum .05 tor so and you know people are always showing you know their distillation apparatus and they're talking about different things but the most important thing is to make sure that we know that when you're when you're I guess setting your nail temperature that when you're dabbing That you're dabbing at the right temperature that you're actually going to vaporize the THC.

17:50SpeakerSo I guess this is somewhat of a dispute now. I guess a lot of people think that there's a, again, sort of mistake in the literature, that Michoulin was mistaken. But I wonder, Chris, since you guys have done this for a while, what do you observe? Do your observations coalesce with what Michoulin observes?

18:14SpeakerIs he muted?

18:16Etienne FontanYou are muted. You need to unmute yourself, Chris.

18:20SpeakerUnmute so we can hear yourself.

18:25Etienne FontanThat better? There we go. We can hear you now.

18:29SpeakerGo. Awesome. Yeah, so basically I think what ends up happening is that since you've got complex mixtures that aren't just THC, it's very uncommon that someone is just distilling a THC A fraction, I mean, you've got other stuff in there, so you have different boiling points because of the mixtures. Obviously, like, agitation and temperature make a big difference. I think until someone goes in, I could be wrong, Mark, I think, I was looking into this a couple days ago, there's like a piece of, like, vapor equilibrium glassware you can utilize to, like, figure out the true vapor pressure of something.

19:10SpeakerI just don't, I think it's in a tight range. Say that again? I think it's called the isotentascope. There you go. That's all we have in the world. A lot of people who've done physical chemistry laboratory, that's the way that you measure vapor pressure of solvent mixtures. But the point is that the boiling point of the major active ingredient, which is THC, Thank you for joining us.

20:00SpeakerSo, again, it's just one of those things that, again, maybe the nail temperature is different because exactly what Chris is saying, you're partitioning a lot of the most volatile, fragrant components of the hash, but not necessarily all the THC itself, and some of the char that might remain behind would just be Thank you for joining us.

20:49BubblemanHeadphones would be amazing. If he could pull it off, that would be great. I do want to invite, or not invite, but welcome Dablogic into the room. For those of you that don't know, these guys are just killing it on Instagram right now. One of the accounts that sort of has elevated hashish photography on Instagram. They're doing really great things, so it's nice to have you here with us, Dablogic.

21:15DablogicThank you. Thank you very much. I'm not sure if my mic's working or what.

21:20BubblemanIt's working perfectly. I unmuted you right at the right time, and it actually worked. Perfect.

21:26DablogicGreat. Thank you. I'm actually here right now alone. I have two other partners that work with me as well. They're out at the moment, so it's just me today.

21:42BubblemanAwesome. Well, we welcome you. You guys are in Colorado, correct?

21:45DablogicYep. Coming out of Colorado, right now our facility is in Denver. And outside of that, I mean, we're trying to find more space, but yeah.

22:00BubblemanNice. Well, you guys are absolutely killing it. I'm not sure who you have growing that fire with you, but that is definitely some great looking final product.

22:10DablogicNo, yeah, the material we're working with is some of the best here in the state that we've been able to actually find. The company we work with is called All Greens. They're as well out of Denver. Small family-run business, and everything's growing with love by hand. And, yeah.

22:31BubblemanYeah, I can tell from the end product that you guys definitely have some really, really good access to the fire.

22:42DablogicYeah, All Greens is, they're allowing us to, you know, take their product and just do what we do. We take everything's fresh frozen, whole plant. They chop down whole plants and bring them over to the lab in freezers and it's been working out great.

23:03BubblemanWell, walk us through a batch if you don't mind. I just, this is Hash Church 90, you know, any little... Things that you've changed or created for yourself that you guys do a little bit differently? Are you guys doing the freedom dryer thing? Are you guys doing RO water? What's the deal with that logic fire?

23:23DablogicWell, basically what our process entails is we start with ice. It all starts with there. We make all the ice by hand. We use RO water. We just have Thank you so much for joining us.

23:58DablogicIt's an ice mold. We try to find one that's about an inch by an inch square. Yeah, dude. That's the best we've found. We've tried every ice out there, every ice shape, every ice machine, anything you can have.

24:19BubblemanPeople thought I was nuts in the beginning when I would tell them about certain types of ice and they'd be like, dude, ice is ice. And I was just like, listen, if you think that... You could do a PhD on ice and the way ice and water freezes. And you could probably do seven PhDs on it, to be honest. It's just not quite as simple as it seems that people assume.

24:41BubblemanBut I'm with you. I'm also with a nice, like, at least inch by an inch cube, perfect just square cube that seems that those edges really get the job done when it comes off to an efficient isolation process.

24:57DablogicNo, absolutely. You know, the edge itself ends up kind of rounding off in the water and kind of makes just a nice, when the cubes kind of, they can take the plant material and it kind of just pushes through real nice. And I found if you use longer ones, they don't typically have the nice agitation where... Whereas if they're more equal in size on all sides, when you agitate them, they spin better and they work better and they feel better and that whole thing just works so much better with the square cube.

25:37BubblemanYeah, Johnny B is in the chat mentioning, I thought you liked the half moon ice, B-Man. Well, Johnny B, I always did have an appreciation for the half moon ice, but more so for how hard the ice freezes. Can you re-stutter that thought?

26:12BubblemanNow I'm just going to like move on to the next thing now and welcome Adam from the West Coast Concentrate. I love that all these hash makers are in the room right now. I do really have an appreciation for the hash maker.

26:25AdamThanks for the invite guys. Happy to be here today.

26:28BubblemanDude, well I mean happy to have you. There's no denying that you are well represented here at my house. Of course we got some, why don't we smoke some 90 micron freeze dry?

26:41AdamDo it up. I know you were saying you like the freeze-dried a little bit different for photography. You prefer the sieved stuff. Personally, I don't do any macro photos, but from the few pictures I have taken, it is very different to look at, for sure, the freeze-dried versus the dry sieved. But I don't know. I think they both have their place, for sure. The freeze-dried, again, is going to have, obviously, less moisture in it.

27:09AdamJust judging by the rooms that we have to dry in, so that's a bonus for us, being able to really control the environment that we are drying our hash in. But I do also like the look of the little balls. It's a cool look. It's a classic look.

27:26BubblemanWell, you know what? It's funny because it seems like you're saying more and more, and I saw solvent is more. Joseph O'Connor posted this just the other day about This color thing, like people, and it goes back to color. Like people, how could you not be so stoked on this beautiful, like I have an affinity for the darker, deeper colors, and I'm sure the Duchess will have an interesting conversation about this because she's a student of Frenchie, and Frenchie, of course, is all about really working his hash, and even if it's a lighter colored hash, he's going to end up working it until it gets that sort of nice caramel or darker amber color.

28:05BubblemanPerspective, but we were talking the other day, Adam and I were talking the other day, and talking about the different colors of the hash. There we go. The difference between the colors of the hash, you know, you have this sort of younger generation coming up and they want to see this lighter colored hash. They want to see this as light as possible, whereas When I first saw the freeze-dried hash, I was kind of like, oh yeah, it's a beautiful color, but it just reminds me of something that's premature versus, you know, because of what I'm used to and what I know when it comes to hashish, I know that properly cured and properly grown resins are going to be darker than lighter.

28:52BubblemanYou know, when I first saw Skunk Man Sam's hash under the microscope, It was like, if you go back and Google 99.9% skunk man, Sam, the heads were almost like reddish orange, you know, because it's like he grew that shit to perfection, he cured that shit, and then he processed it. Whereas when I photographed Cuban stuff in Jamaica, the heads were almost all white, like almost completely white.

29:19BubblemanSo this is a very different level, and I guess Maybe a different time, you know? We're seeing that people want this lighter-colored hash. What do you, the panel, think about the lighter hash versus darker hash, and whether there's really any reality other than the reality?

29:37SpeakerI think it looks prettier, and the hash that you saw of mine that was dark was because it was probably 10 years old. But it had been frozen, but it was still 10 years old.

29:48Etienne FontanWell, wouldn't Hashishin be created by the pressing, correct?

29:54SpeakerEither heat or light or air or something. I've always thought of Hashi.

30:04Etienne FontanHoly frozen Batman. Bubble Man. Did he freeze up again? I did freeze up again. It's the ice.

30:12BubblemanIt's the ice. Yeah, it's the ice. Damn. Damn. I hate that freezing up thing.

30:18SpeakerBubble Man, Fish's Song, It's Ice, right? Yeah, exactly. It's Ice.

30:23BubblemanThey knew, even back in the 80s.

30:24Etienne FontanWell, I think this is a debate we've had for decades over the lighter or the darker, because originally hash you could only find, or at least early on for me, was just the darker, that type of Afghani... That really waxy type of hash, you know, was what you could really find on the streets unless you made it yourself. I never on a street deal ever bought, you know, any type of blonde hash in any way, shape, or form.

30:50Etienne FontanIt wasn't until I was around, you know, more professionals that I ever even saw that sort of quality.

30:56AdamSo even back then you were still in search of the blonde though?

31:01Etienne FontanDidn't know blonde existed. I mean, I did realize once, you know, if really good hash, if you broke the outside, it was still that darker inside, but it was still toward that amber. So it did lead me to want to try to find something lighter, but never was it ever available to find.

31:18AdamYeah, because I remember as a kid, and not a young kid, but, you know, in my mid-teens and everything, there was no... There was no melt around, at least in my circles, or anyone that I had known. I'm sure there was melt, you know, in various countries around the world, and people were making it for sure, but I was just always looking for that blonde, even that lighter brown colored, like Moroccan, or even some Hashem Kabul I've seen that was actually pretty, it was very dark and almost black on the outside and sticky, and when you broke it open it had like It almost looked like ripping open a marshmallow, like a black marshmallow, and on the inside it was all golden and... White.

32:00AdamYeah, like it was just kind of a... I don't know. It was just something that we had always... Thank you so much for joining us.

32:31BubblemanThat has been allowed to dry a little bit, but not completely. And so the outside will turn a darker color, and if someone comes and grabs that hash and they rip it open and then they roll it up into their hand again, you'll get this marbly sort of effect sometimes. And I've always thought of that as an uneven cure. You know, because back in the day it was happening with wetter hash.

32:55BubblemanYes.

32:56DuchessWell, you definitely, of course, do not want to...

33:03SpeakerOh, we got you. Go ahead.

33:05DuchessOh, sorry. You definitely, of course, don't want to be rolling wet hash. I mean, that's disgusting. Wet hash is going to be moldy. It's going to lose potency after a while. But one other time that you will see marbling, just so that people aren't a little bit like, oh my gosh, there's marbling. It must be wet. One other time, like, you know, so Frenchie and I do this full-spectrum hash, and when you press full-spectrum hash because there's different sizes of the mic on, the often you will see that marbling look.

33:34DuchessSo don't worry about that being wet, at least from us, because we're using the freeze dryer.

33:38Etienne FontanIt's certainly in the photos. So... Early on for me, I didn't see blonde until I was in Saudi Arabia and I saw blonde Lebanese. And then when I saw it, I didn't think it was real because I got a little slab of red and a little slab of blonde. And both of those, I was questioning if that were even cannabis until I actually smoked them because I had only seen darker or blacker.

34:03SpeakerAlso, too, resin that is grown outdoors in the sun is always darker. Depending on the variety, but it's always darker than under lights in an indoor building. When you grow under lights, your resin comes out almost clear to white, whereas in a greenhouse, it's always lightly reddish, brownish, tannish. Lightly, at least. Right.

34:31BubblemanHey, welcome, Todd and Frenchie in the house.

34:35Etienne FontanVive la Frenchie. Unmute yourselves, guys. Hey, good morning.

34:40DuchessSalut! Good morning, Frenchie.

34:44BubblemanOui, Bubble Man parle français aussi. Je suis français aussi. Je suis canadien, bien sûr. Je parle français.

34:51SpeakerCan I ask Sam, do you think that that's just a little embedded oxidization from the UV light? I think it's the light and or ultraviolet. Flavonoids. Flavonoids are the most highly colored compounds in there. If you put cannabis and dry it in sunlight. In their indoors or outdoors. And that's the only real difference is UV in the light spectrum. Yeah.

35:18BubblemanAll right. There we go. Interesting. We've got 800 people watching the hash discussion today. Here on Bubble Man's World and Hash Church. We've got some great people in the room. Chris, I'm sorry I keep muting you. You have an incredibly loud background sound. I don't know. I mean, when you're ready to talk, for sure, we'll deal with it. But if anyone else is talking, it definitely has to be muted.

35:43BubblemanI don't know if Wook, Wook never made it back. We still got Dab Logic in the house. I still want to hear more from you as well, Dab Logic, because, man, you guys are making fire over there.

35:56DablogicSorry, I'm muted. I'm about to take a dab. One second here. Damn, look at that banger.

36:04Etienne FontanBoy, that's a trough and a half, huh?

36:05BubblemanThat is a trough and a half. Jesus.

36:09Etienne FontanBringing the whole herd over for that one. Yeah, look at that dab just disappear.

36:14AdamI haven't tried any of those troughs before. I've tried like the classic bangers and some of the mothership buckets and things like that, but how do you guys find that the trough is... As far as that shape, is it a better shape for heat retention or does it clean easier? I'm not sure what the, is it just a fun shape, you know?

36:35DablogicIt's not necessarily, it cleans harder actually, but what is nice is the oil doesn't have corners to really sit in, so it kind of bubbles along on a flat surface that's kind of rounded and It gives it a better almost surface area per se to bubble off of and runs down the top of this nail and kind of just boils in the bottom. I don't know. I like it a lot.

37:00Etienne FontanSorry. No, go ahead. It's okay. What's your favorite mic, Ron?

37:04Dablogic90 mic.

37:07Etienne FontanNow, why 90? You've played with them all. What makes 90 special?

37:13DablogicWhat makes 90? I think it's the perfect size. I think after 90 micron, this doesn't have 100% scientific evidence or anything like that, but after 90 micron, the head is actually getting smaller and degrading. It's not like it starts at 70 and is this dark red thing and then... Slowly opens up to a clear, nice, bigger head. What happens is actually there are nice, nicely colored 70 micron that get bigger and bigger and bigger and they turn into 120s and 160s and then slowly those start to shrivel back down into...

38:06Dablogicand degrade and just become smaller maybe more condensed and dense but the quality is actually

38:16BubblemanIt's definitely a different profile. Without using the word degrade, because like you said, we don't really know scientifically, but we do know for sure through bioassay, by separating the glands out, hitting them all together, hitting them in different ratios, and hitting them, most importantly, separately, because that's really where I learned a lot. Before I smoked eight-bag bubble bag hash to learn... I had mostly smoked hash that was all together.

38:43BubblemanThere was no real separation. I wasn't able to look at something and see all the different components, which, you know, back in the early days, very often I did the Frenchy style. I'd take a little bit of each one and I'd put it all together and I'd make a nice sort of full spectrum hash. But I always found myself going back to The 73 and the 90 and the 120.

39:04BubblemanEven though I try to, I'd be like, okay, well, let's just see what this, because at first we said the 25 micron was like immature or broken heads. And it seems as though what more accurately it is, is smaller heads that produce a unique and different cannabinoid profile than the ones that are larger do. And so it's interesting when you start learning about how to separate out the gland sizes and And I don't tell people separate them out because they have to be separate.

39:35BubblemanI say separate them out because you can learn. And it doesn't matter in the end if you want to put them all back together or take two out and just put five back or whatever it is you want to do. It gives you the ability to do that once you've separated them all out.

39:50SpeakerWhat we used to do years ago was we used a particle size separator so that we could See exactly where the most fractions were at what size. And then we used, depending on the variety and how it was grown, I mean, there is no 90 that's the best for everything. It just ain't true. Of course.

40:13DablogicNo, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I think mainly with the trichome head is they do age. I mean, the longer you leave them on there, they will age. And they... They stay big for a while, but they eventually get smaller. Eventually, they will get smaller.

40:31SpeakerI prefer them when they're dried, cured, and aged so that you can handle and process them with some degree. When it's too fresh, I find it a bloody nightmare.

40:43DablogicOh, it is. It's absolutely. I mean, we work with the freshest. We actually try to get the trichome head at its peak point in size. Thank you so much for joining us.

41:12SpeakerCan I say something out there, though? Back in, shit, in 97, I had over 50 varieties in Bel Air growing, and when I used to shake them on my rototap with the different size sieves, I used to always get different size glands. You're froze, Todd. I'm froze?

41:29BubblemanI hear you perfect.

41:30AdamYeah, I've got you good, too.

41:32SpeakerOh, okay. And I always used to get an assortment of different size resin glands from different cultivars. It was never consistent. I'm really interested about all of you guys and the size of the resin head. You're hunting ripeness in size. The resin head is made like a fruit. So if you think of it, when you shake your tree to get your resin head to fall, if the resin head is made like a fruit, when you shake the tree just a tiny bit, you get the ripest fruit.

42:09SpeakerAnd then you shake a little bit harder, you have a second dimension of ripeness. And then a third time, another level. And I wash my trim twelve times. So I don't hunt the melt in size, I hunt the melt in level of ripeness that the whole plant is giving me. I have hunting territory that is huge. Compared to you, when you go for a size, You got a slice of the spectrum.

42:41SpeakerYou got a slice of the totality of the cannabinoid and terpene. Do you think that that slice, doesn't matter how melty, represents the whole dimension of ripeness that the plant is giving you? No, it's just a slice. I don't think it's...

43:02DablogicWell, maybe you just misunderstood me. What I meant is that majority of the trichome heads, I'm not saying, no plant in the world will produce all 90 micron head or all 120 head or all 70 head. But there are plants that when grown in specific ways, under specific conditions, will produce more of a specific size micron head. That's absolutely true.

43:32BubblemanAnd cannabinoid profile. And that's why when I first smoked Sam's, which was like, It definitely wasn't what I would say a huge variety of different size heads. They were really like all close to almost all the same size. I was just kind of like looking at them like how did he get all of these heads that look like the same? Like I just can't wrap my head around it.

43:55BubblemanAnd it was the strongest hash I've ever smoked in my life. Exactly. Without a shadow of a doubt, the strongest I've ever smoked in my life. But that's the beauty about when we separate and we get, as Frenchie says, a slice, we're actually getting a large amount of information. And if you did your light, light, you know, when you do that real, like, let's go for the ripest fruit, if you took those heads that you got out of that really gentle first bounce or run or whatever you want to call it, And you actually measured those trichome heads.

44:31BubblemanI think you'd be surprised at the variety of size. It wouldn't be maybe as large as you think, but it might be a much smaller gauge of the size, variety. Size definitely has a place in hash making, whether or not it's just to learn and to see what you have, or whether or not, you know, the importance for me was when I met people who said, wow, You know, we couldn't get the appetite stimulant out of this medicine, but when we turned it into hash and we smoked just the 73, you know, my dad ate a whole chocolate cake that night, so I also noticed that the medical profile of the plant could be isolated by different sized gland heads, and that intrigued me greatly back in the day.

45:18SpeakerAlso, hashish really has a lot, different varieties really have a different propensity for Thank you so much for joining us.

45:49BubblemanAreas of the world. For me, growing indoors and making hash with indoor cultivars, we saw a very general sort of thing. It was constantly the 90 and the 73 bag that most people were favoring. Whereas when I got products sent to me via Australia and they were growing strains like the Mullumbimby Madness outside under the extremely hot Australian sun, They were finding most of their material was in the 25 micron bag, and that was the full melt.

46:19BubblemanThat was their 90 micron bag, and I was just like, what? The 25 micron bag is your 90 micron bag? Yeah, we just get these tiny, tiny little heads, but I could attest that the hash was absolutely spectacular, like as fire as fire gets.

46:37AdamSam, you were saying something about the sleeve stack just falling off of the plant, the resin. Do you think that that is due to maybe the terpene profile? Like do you find that strain that have falling off?

46:51SpeakerI'm not sure if it's a terpene profile or whether it's a basic difference in that particular clone plant, whatever. But I do know that extremely greasy resin always has more trouble falling off.

47:08AdamFor sure, I was just more maybe not the terpene profile, but does it have a specific, does it have other qualities that are the same as other resin that falls off easily?

47:19SpeakerGuns number one falls off pretty easy. Sleeve stack falls off pretty easy. I'm sure everybody knows a variety that if you're dry sifting, it's really pretty easy to get the dry sift. Other varieties, it's like you work your balls off and you get hardly nothing.

47:39AdamYeah, for sure.

47:41BubblemanWell, there it is. Skunk Man Sam just shared his secret technique. He uses his balls.

47:46Etienne FontanTiny, tiny little balls.

47:48BubblemanYou heard it here on Hash Church Episode 9. Bigger balls work better.

47:55DuchessMark, I do have, I do have the, um, just interject this one thing. You know when we say, oh we're doing full spectrums, you know, people say, oh we love the 73, we love the 90, we love the 120. Okay, well the 73, if you're only pulling the 73, that's 73 to 90, the 90 is 90 to 119, and the 20, 120 is 120 to 159.

48:16DuchessThe only difference is that we're pulling from the 45 all the way up until the 159. So I don't find that the cultivars that I'm running, often I'll find a lot in the 25, but I found some cultivars that were just amazing. One time I ran a 190 bag underneath my 220 and it was just like... Beyond par, but the way I see making full spectrum and the reason why I really like it, besides the fact that Frenchie taught me, because I went through this period where I did separate my microns.

48:51DuchessI did, and I was like amazed, I'm telling you. The first time you do a 73 or a 90, you're like, oh my gosh.

48:59BubblemanYou're learning. Had you never done that, you would have never understood those subtle differences, and Oh, for sure. When you separate them, you still have the power to put them all back together, but when you don't separate them, you no longer have that power. So it's the best of both worlds by separating. You can still make full spectrum and put it all together in the end, or you can make different ratios or keep it separate if you were to find, say, one of those profiles really hit you, whether recreationally or medically or preventatively, whatever you're using it for, and that's what I like.

49:34BubblemanI like... More options rather than less.

49:37DuchessOh, so you're thinking of a mix and match. That's interesting.

49:41BubblemanIt enters a whole new world when you start actually playing around and creating your own profiles. It's quite fun.

49:49SpeakerKnock.

49:50BubblemanYes.

49:56SpeakerHave you ever tried, you separate micron, I separate washes, so that I have 15 different washes, 15 different dimensions of ripeness. Do you know how much you learn from that?

50:14BubblemanOf course. I'm a dry sifter, Frenchy, so I do that exactly with dry sifting. I separate my dry sifting out based on maturity levels, exactly how I do it.

50:24SpeakerBut dry sifting has been 15 times. The water brings us a lot of power. The power takes the tree leaving nothing. And every shake, it's a dimension of ripeness. So when you have like 15 shakes and you can see how deep your grower is, Thank you so much for joining us.

51:14BubblemanIt is a question of size when you're separating it out by size.

51:19SpeakerYeah, but it's like, do you need to separate by size to end the melt when it's a ripeness that you're looking for?

51:27BubblemanI want to. I want to. So this is the beautiful thing about cannabis. We don't get everyone to do it the way we want to. We explore all the different opportunities, and then we choose the way we want to do it.

51:39SpeakerMm-hmm. That's the beautiful thing about it. If you want to maximize the entourage effect, if you don't have the wellness of the plant, the wellness of all the ripeness that that plant is giving you, you're taking a slice. That's not the entourage anymore. You lose the wellness of the plant, if you see what I mean. When it comes to meltiness of hash, which people hold very high in regard, a lot of it actually has to do with the terpene level.

52:14SpeakerWhen resin is high in terpenes, it is way more melty and bubbly, especially for dry sift.

52:21AdamThat's for sure. Well, it's funny you say that, actually, because some of the cultivars that we get to work with, Mexteza being one of them, It actually doesn't melt at all. And that may be our grower. It may be something that we're doing wrong especially, but we do have a lot of trouble getting that particular strain to melt. And I know the heads are a bit smaller.

52:44AdamThey probably have a thicker wax membrane as well, but I would say it's a maximum three star. But almost everything else... Do you like the quality? I love the quality of the flavor, but I don't love the quality of the melt, I would say, or the actual dab-ability of the hash.

53:04DablogicI think one big thing as far as melt factor goes, as far as all... All microns. I mean, if you're growing your plants with synthetic fertilizers, synthetic nutrients, you're spraying pesticides, things like that, that's going to really affect your milk quality, you know.

53:25SpeakerYeah, milk's a lot better, right?

53:28DablogicYeah, no, but honestly, growing organically or in that kind of setting where it's, you're giving more to the plant to kind of produce the trichome. That will usually help with your melt.

53:46SpeakerWhat really helps with meltability is number one, a good variety, high terpene content, a lot of THC because that melts pretty good.

54:00SpeakerWell, you mean THCA, right? Just to be accurate? Correct. Yes, it's THCA. Okay, thank you.

54:06BubblemanIt's always been the same. The people who have always stood out... I wouldn't say are amazing hash makers. They are people who have relationships with amazing growers. Or are amazing growers themselves. Because I'll tell you, from day one when people were like, oh, Bubble Man, you're just like from another planet. It's like, no, I'm not. I just know great growers. Or I can produce resin myself in my grow that produces great End product.

54:36BubblemanNicky T was the same way. Matt Rise was the same way. A whole variety of the people on the panel. If you don't have fire being given to you to make your hash, then you are not going to be making great hash.

54:50SpeakerThe last factor for really good meltability of course is purity. Yeah. You know, if you've got 99.9% resin heads, it's going to melt and bubble a whole lot better than 80% resin heads.

55:05BubblemanOr even better than 93% resin heads. I couldn't believe the difference in that last 1 or 2%, particularly with dry sifted material, because of course, you know, the water is amazing in water hash, and as Frenchy was talking about going for the different... Thank you for joining us.

55:51SpeakerAren't the terpenes inside the resin head? So, I mean, what you lose is the breaking point. If your membranes are not broken, you don't lose. I have a question for you guys that have been bothering me for a long time and you're all here. It's awesome. I have encountered many times A problem during the last two weeks of flowering. If somebody harvests two weeks earlier, I have no resin formed inside the resin head, even if the plant show on lab test THC.

56:31SpeakerThe same growers, the same genetics, the same room waited two weeks, I have some goo that is beyond Good. You know what I mean. There is something happening during those two weeks that I don't know what's going on. Frenchy, have you tested both the THC and the terpene levels during that two-week process to see if there's significant changes? No, it's not the experience for the moment. From the same grower, I got...

57:08SpeakerOne is beyond great, and the other one, even if I rosin it, I get nothing out of it. But the plant is showing on lab tests 28% THC. What's going on? That's a really good question. I wish I did know the answer. I'm writing an article about it, about the dimension of lightness, and I'm looking for the science behind how do you have cannabinoid form but no resin.

57:39SpeakerYeah, one of the things that I've always explained to people is that the best The most resin is produced the last couple weeks of flowering with most varieties. I mean, that's when it just, what I call, frosts out. First the plant grows vegetative, then it flowers, and then the last couple weeks it frosts out.

58:05SpeakerAnd that's when you want it. I like it totally frosted out. Rob Clark likes it a bit younger because he says it's got higher terpene and taste and it's more ivory instead of stony. But I like it maxed out myself.

58:20BubblemanThat's because you like it stony, Sam.

58:25SpeakerI like it stony but with the right variety so it's ivory stony.

58:30BubblemanWhat about Chris's jacket? He likes it stony. I want to trip balls with Chris.

58:39Etienne FontanSeriously, he looks like he would have a good day.

58:41SpeakerYeah, you absolutely do. I figured it was like, you know, hash church, and someone needed to wear some good ceremonial garb for the day. Make it look, uh, keep it happy. This thing's actually awesome. I got this in the Hay Dash for it. It's like totally, like, completely, like, embroidered and handmade. It's just, it's banging. I just want to feel majestic. I'm pretty sure that I saw Wino about 20 years ago wearing that coat, and somebody gave him acid and he made that coat.

59:11SpeakerThat sounds about right. I wanted to actually speak, I got a chance about the water-soluble... Like preserving water soluble terpenes by not even using water at all. So like one of the things we've been doing recently is the liquid nitrogen hash for what we call extra virgin line. And basically what we'll do is we'll take, we can take dry plant material or we can take like super fresh, ideally we'll take super fresh material, plunge it right into liquid nitrogen.

59:41SpeakerAnd then utilize any sort of bags to break them down. We found that the full mesh bags are the most efficient. And what's nice is that the nylon and the material that we use in them doesn't get brittle, unlike the...

59:58SpeakerThank you for watching.

1:00:20SpeakerPretty sure they're just nylon at this point. Polyester would probably work too. And then what we'll do is, you know, the various ways of drying it obviously include, you know, just sort of air drying or desiccant drying or freeze drying. So obviously that's up to the person, but we've been playing around mostly with desiccant drying and just removing the oxygen from desiccators and keeping them dry and we'll let that resin here.

1:00:48SpeakerYeah, well, because they're not like actively pulling, you know, the desiccant, the desiccator itself would be like closed. So, you know, essentially they've got, you know, nowhere to go. The desiccants mostly absorb the water. And so we find that it's a pretty good method of preservation. I mean, when you look at the freeze dryer waters that everyone comes off, I mean, it's like they're full of stuff that is not water quite clearly.

1:01:10SpeakerAnd so we'll then, we'll take that resin and we'll cure it up to a certain point. Get the water content out and we go right to the rosin from there. So far we've had pretty good results. We've had some high sugaring, really like syrupy sort of concentrates that come out of it as well as butters. The only consistency we really haven't had is any shatter come out of it.

1:01:37SpeakerDo you recycle the liquid nitrogen or do you evaporate it off in the room so you can actually smell it if it's high in terpene? We don't evaporate. I mean, like, it evaporates naturally. I mean, ideally, you'd have, like, a jacketed vessel or something like that just because, obviously, you'll, you know, decrease the amount of evaporation. But, you know, you burn through a good amount of liquid nitrogen unless you have, like, really high-quality, like, systems.

1:02:05SpeakerBut, you know, we can, you keep them as much as you can. If you do multiple batches, you gain, you have extra liquid nitrogen here or there, and you may, like, you know, Thank you for watching.

1:02:29SpeakerThank you for watching.

1:02:46SpeakerYou know, liquid nitrogen in bags in a pot is pretty straightforward. You learn the technique. You learn how to break up the buds. You know, you can ideally not freeze them. I mean, in the sense of, like, flash freezing and how they, like, preserve, like, tuna on big ships and get them out for, like, sushi grade as it's frozen so quickly. You know, in this case, just liquid nitrogen that, in fact, changes the cell structure and everything compared to conventional freezing when you freeze something frozen.

1:03:13SpeakerExcuse me, when you freeze something like, you know, just in the regular freezer, it takes longer, the water has time to disrupt the cell walls and stuff like that. With liquid nitrogen, you get a much different effect. And so you're, ultimately, you're chasing that freshest, most, like, pure experience of the plant, because by plunging that into liquid nitrogen, you're dropping that thing down to, like, you know, negative.

1:03:39SpeakerMinus 0.98. Yeah.

1:03:42SpeakerOne of the things that I've always wondered is, do we want to chase the terpene profile at harvest? Or is the reduced terpene profile after you get from a two week dry and a three month cure, is that terpene profile superior? I think it is. Well, I think it depends strain to strain. I think like Sativa is it because they're going to have big difference cushions. I'll say like definitely a lot of these things have Thank you for watching.

1:04:45SpeakerTo the point where it was now that like distinctive course. So it was, I think there's an art involved to sort of the curing and all these processes whether you're doing water hash or whether you're doing nitrogen. I think some of the more volatile monoterpenes are in large amounts actually harmful for when you're...

1:05:04BubblemanThey hurt the throat, there's no denying that.

1:05:06SpeakerThey do laryngitis.

1:05:08BubblemanYeah, and we've seen it every year at the Cannabis Cup, and it was the last year in Amsterdam when I had the dry sift that was cured for months. It was a sweet skunk dry sift, and when you hit it, you know, I talked to Rob about this at that cup. We might have even had a conversation about it in regards to, it's almost as though these caustic monoterpenes that are like, they're just right there to evaporate.

1:05:32BubblemanThey're the ones that need to be cured out. But once they leave, it's like a blanket that's taken off the next more subtle profile that's below that, that now can escape. And it changes the experience. And I'll tell you, I didn't want to smoke anything but that hash because it was so smooth. Every time I took a hit of it, it was like I took a sip of a smoothie.

1:05:55BubblemanAnd the odd time I took a hit of hash that someone offered me, oh, man. And I think that's why some of these butters and stuff are cool.

1:06:12BubblemanAt the same time, Chris, I think I respect, and, you know, from Frenchies coming in, it's not about one way over another, my way or your way or his way. It's about all of the ways, having access to all of the ways, being able to cure some out longer and cure some out less. If this is what you feel you want, if this is what you like, this is what you need.

1:06:35SpeakerAnd I guarantee that if I like it, I'll smoke it, whether it was cured before. One hour or three, four months. Agreed. I like it. Well, that's the art of it, making a good hash and bringing it to people and knowing each strain. I think that's the fun thing. It's like you were saying, the slea stack breaks off and this one's better cured or this one's better fresh or this one makes better turps or this makes... That's the fun.

1:07:02SpeakerI mean, that's what brings us all out is to have fun with the different strains and the different techs and put it all together to keep everyone enjoying it.

1:07:11BubblemanYeah, well, I'm down with that. It's great. It's the spice of life. Variety is the spice of life. And we need to have variety out there.

1:07:18SpeakerWhatever happened, is that seed company still around? What seed company was that? That was Breeders Steve. That had that saying.

1:07:27BubblemanThat was Breeders Steve. We had the spice of life seed company.

1:07:31SpeakerYes, that was, yes.

1:07:33BubblemanIt was him with a big beard. That was cool. And a handout with some seed in it. That was his logo. Shout out to Breeders Steve.

1:07:42DablogicSo I had a question for Sam. As far as curing the resin, do you think that curing the resin on the plant or curing it off the plant makes a large difference?

1:07:57SpeakerMy favorite way to do it, because I found it easier, is to first dry the plant for two weeks in the dark, hanging upside down, then box it, whole branches, You know, just very lightly put in the box, you know, just completely fill the boxes and keep the room at a moderate temperature and a humidity that's not too high or too low and What it does is it really changes.

1:08:31SpeakerIt mellows. It cures. It's just like what happens with wine, with cheese, with meat, with everything. Not with everything, but a lot of things are better after they've been cured.

1:08:48DablogicIs it the microbial kind of breakdown that does the curing?

1:08:53SpeakerThat's one thing. No, I don't think so. I think curing is different than being broken down. I think it's a change of starches to sugars. That's all microbial-assisted, Sam. Microbes play a role in that. I'm not a chemist. I'm not an expert. I'm just really experienced. You're using cardboard boxes. It changes too because it's no longer meany-greeny at all. It's like sugar. But I'm talking about herb here, not resin.

1:09:29SpeakerAnd I prefer drying it on the plant because a lot of resins dry sift when you have them in large quantities. They're hydroscopic. They absorb water and it causes them to go off. So I don't like drying large amounts of dry sift. All stacked on top of each other. I've seen it cause problems with the material going whitey and all kinds of things. Whereas if I store it in a freezer, it's absolutely perfect at minus 30.

1:10:02SpeakerSo I prefer doing all the prep and curing and all that kind of stuff before I separate it. And then once I've got it separated, Get it to the purity level you want, whether it's 50% resin heads or 99.9% resin heads, and then stick it in an airtight container and freeze it.

1:10:30BubblemanWell, thanks for sharing, Sam.

1:10:33SpeakerHey, Marcus, can I get a question for the panel? What came first, sativa or indica? We're arguing, though. Sorry to just break it. But what came first, the chicken or the egg, huh? The sativa or the indica? Go.

1:10:47Etienne FontanDefinitely the mushroom. Weren't they all together on Gondwana Land in the first place?

1:10:53SpeakerI would guess the sativa. Right. This is serious science, guys and girls. I mean, seriously. I believe in all of them. I'm being serious. I think it was sativa. And by sativa, I mean non-drug variety. How dare you? How dare you? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's impossible because there is scientific study proving that that plant is genetically engineered to produce as much cannabinoid as possible.

1:11:26SpeakerSo anything that doesn't produce a maximum of cannabinoid That's not, that's a plant that has been breeded since the beginning of time not to produce cannabinoid, but... No, the exact opposite is... The exact opposite is true. That man has selected for high THC varieties. Man has selected for high fiber content. Man has selected for varieties that can perform in particular photo periods. You say, Sam, that she was born just making us clothes and paper and rope and these, like, useful things that we would go on to evolve as humans with.

1:12:05SpeakerAs long as you're happy with one or two percent smoking ganja, yes. If you wanted it any better, you wanted it after the hand of man.

1:12:16Etienne FontanDidn't Carl Sagan state that man has evolved with this plant for thousands of years to have the receptors where we have throughout our bodies for them in the abdomen and the brain? So wouldn't that also lend some credence that there was THC from the beginning as well?

1:12:33SpeakerNo, because it's not a receptor for THC. It's a receptor for anandamide, for the endocannabinoid system. THC just happens to make a key that fits in the same door and lock. It's a mimic, structural mimic.

1:12:52SpeakerNo, it's not true. The industrial side of Mary Jane, I mean, all power for her, you know what I mean? But you just think that we selected the good ones through our experience, that she had minimal amounts of psychoactive THC and we just kept picking the ones that were the most appealing to us. Well, here's what you can do. You take your 20% THC varieties, let's say a whole bunch of them, 100 different ones, Plant them someplace where they can reproduce on their own.

1:13:21SpeakerLet them free to pollinate. Come back in 20 years and check the THC levels. They're way, way, way down. Without the hand of man to support them, they don't stay high.

1:13:35Etienne FontanBut didn't they come from the mountains?

1:13:39SpeakerThe mountains meaning what? The Kush region? Some of them, yes, but not ganja varieties.

1:13:50SpeakerGanja varieties came from the tropics.

1:13:57SpeakerInteresting. Well, you know, I have really strong opinions on this because I've been studying evolution along with Rob Clark for, you know, really a long time.

1:14:08BubblemanI don't believe that you have a strong opinion.

1:14:11SpeakerHa, ha, ha, ha.

1:14:14Etienne FontanYou're just saying shit, man.

1:14:18BubblemanOh, fuck. Sitting in the 90 micron bag.

1:14:21SpeakerGot another good one here. You know, so our first connection to cannabis, Frenchie feels, has to have been the resin because you touch it, it sticks to you, it's fragrant, it's appealing. So what do y'all think of that? You have millions of years of evolution. Like, Humanity moved from South Africa to the European continent somewhere around 3 million years ago. 2 million years ago there is evidence of humanity from Europe to Papua New Guinea.

1:14:54SpeakerThat means that 2 million years ago humanity with a baggage, a huge baggage of knowledge in his back could have made that plan for the first time as far away as 2 million years ago. When they were on the continent, even if you give them another million years to really find and connect with that plant, that's a million years ago that before we actually domesticated fire. Well, man has been collecting stuff like this for as long as you say.

1:15:30SpeakerBut man has only been a farmer where he cultivated crops for less than 20,000 years for sure. Some people say it's less than 15,000. Yeah, 13,000 BC. I'm not talking about hashish. I'm talking about charas. I'm talking about the simplest way to collect resin from that plant. It's to put it on your hand. It sticks naturally. Frenchie, don't you think that the primitive man was first attracted to the seeds for nutrition and then found out that when he was collecting the seeds, his finger got covered with the resin that was psychoactive?

1:16:13SpeakerI strongly suspect so. Food.

1:16:17AdamBut as another way of looking at it, it really just depends on how, is if they touched it first or if they smelled it first, because if they smelled it first, are we calling resin Part of, is terpene part of resin or is terpene a completely opposite?

1:16:31BubblemanI would add this about that, in the sense that you do not need, the first time we ever grew a hemp field in Manitoba and we walked into the five acres and it was, you know, budding and it had resin all over it and it stunk to high heaven, we were like, whoa, like, this just smells and looks like bud. It had .01. 1% THC, it was the Zolotinotia from the Ukraine, which was like, I think some of the lowest THC hemp that they had ever tested anywhere on the planet.

1:17:03BubblemanAnd it still had terpenes, it definitely still had a fragrant odor and smell that in a five acre plot, you could smell from quite a distance away.

1:17:13SpeakerYeah, I got to have a picnic in Ben Bronker's Hemp Field in 96, September 96, and it was a very fragrant experience. It was absolutely beautiful. I think there will be, you know, the equivalent of near beer for cannabis because it's such a pleasant smoke, and it's just so, it smells, it was just so appealing. And imagine, this is the time of the mega flora and the mega fauna.

1:17:38SpeakerEverything was three to five times bigger than anything we know today. Possibly the plants the same. So they could just pick the resin off like grapes and eat little balls. That sounds good to me.

1:17:54Etienne FontanRead me that, please.

1:17:56BubblemanPerfect for dab size. Hey, how about we all take a dab right now? I'd love everyone to be smoking something in the next minute. We haven't had a good, real, nice hash church rip all together in a while. And right before we do... We'll have D420K chime in with his classic.

1:18:14SpeakerBon rip! Bon rip, mother lovers. You could also ask everybody in chat to say where it is that they're viewing us from.

1:18:27BubblemanWe could. You just did. So answer Skunkman Sam. Tell us where you're viewing us from while we all smoke a giant dab. Of something beautiful. Something 90 micron, obviously. We've got to hit some 90 micron here. Come on. And a turp dip. Well, yeah, that's... I don't have any 90. Hit some full spectrum.

1:18:51Etienne FontanOh, Frankie, you'll just have to smoke that crap you have.

1:18:57BubblemanSmoke them if you got them. Oh, yes. Hashtag 90. Thank you, everyone, for showing up. And check out the schlop cup. That's pretty sick.

1:19:06SpeakerAnd Frenchy, do you have a favorite hash variety that you've made yourself? What is it? What I made to truly... It's what I made in India in the mountain in Malana in the Parvati Valley. Parvati. When you stick resin on your hands... It's really a communion with a plant that I never had because before that I made ashish. You don't go during the season. You go during the winter.

1:19:37SpeakerYou sieve. So it's like I never had really a strong relation with a plant. In India, 10,000 feet in the wildness of the Himalaya, That was the most incredible reunion. I've been there, Frenchy. I know exactly where you're talking about. I'm wondering if you made dry sift or water hash from those same plants, what do you think the difference would have been? I've never done because you don't have the climatic condition to do that there.

1:20:11SpeakerIt's so humid. You can hardly dry the flower. No, you can make water hash even in extremely humid areas. We had no problem in Jamaica. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no, but I mean, I was living in a cave at 10,000 feet, so a little difficult.

1:20:30BubblemanIt's an air conditioner, Frenchy. I'd have made some hash, I'm not going to lie.

1:20:35SpeakerHey, check it out everybody. Who else has these? Andy Hammers, fucking old school. It's about to be Frenchy's new favorite pipe, I think. Me, it's one of my favorites. This is a 2010 Maui Huawei HP13 made by Minjin from Aficionado House. He's the only one I know who has HP13. Oh, did you smoke it? No.

1:21:02Etienne FontanThose little hash hammers, Todd, are the best.

1:21:05SpeakerI told him that Alan Dronkers likes old hash, and he pulls out this, I have a piece from 2010 story, and then gives me some.

1:21:13BubblemanThis piece is nine years old. This piece of bubble hash is nine years old now.

1:21:20Etienne FontanA tad bit of oxidization happening there, eh?

1:21:23DuchessOh, but it still tastes absolutely fantastic. I wrote about that hash, that Mean Gene hash, and it was like butter, and it melted like water.

1:21:34BubblemanThis stuff, which I've cured this stuff three different ways for the last nine years. I have some in glass, I have some that's open and exposed, and then I had some that I was more preserving in cold. And this particular piece... Smells and tastes like the most incredible perfume-flavored, like, just, it's almost shocking when it first hits your lips. The first time I smoked it, and it happened between year five and six, it just changed completely.

1:22:04BubblemanAnd it was, at first I was like, man, did I, like, contaminate this? Did I, like, spill something on this? Is this, because this just can't be, D420K's hit this before. It's, it's like super trippy, trippy hash.

1:22:19Etienne FontanMust be stable as hell.

1:22:21BubblemanIt's super stable, dude.

1:22:25SpeakerYes. Even after I exhaled that, I exhaled it through my nose and it still gave me the peppery, that fizz like a Coca-Cola burp out of your nose. This was blonde tricep. But you can see, this has been sitting out on a shelf for two or three years. It just turns red. That'll do it. That'll do it.

1:22:52Etienne FontanNow, Todd, you were talking about how Drunkers likes the aged hash. He actually slow carboxylates it, right, over a long period of time in an oven to do that?

1:23:04SpeakerNo, you know what it was? Sorry. I'm enjoying French tats. No, you know what it was? Alan lives in tropical places, and he managed to lose a big chunk of hash in his couch in a very warm environment. Thank you for watching.

1:23:39SpeakerAnd it was. It wasn't his imagination. It was. Because all of your decarb is happening right here in the heat. And if you don't decarboxylate at all when you light it slowly, if you inhale too quickly or whatever, you just destroy a lot of the THC and you don't actually enjoy it. And we just lit this using this really cool ceramic ember material. Touch lighter, it's fucking awesome, and I highly recommend it because, you know, you don't want to inhale this.

1:24:10SpeakerYou know, people talk shit about BHO, but really, the trail of butane coming off of this fucking lighter is obnoxious, and most people inhale it, and they suck it right into their pipe. And it's the worst way to light it. I mean, if you really want to have a really good hit of hash and you don't have one of these, get a magnifying glass and go in the sunshine, wear sunglasses, and light it using the sunlight.

1:24:35SpeakerAnd you will taste a hashish you have never tasted before.

1:24:38BubblemanTaste the rainbow!

1:24:41Etienne FontanBecause you're also getting the carbon off of those dicks, so that's also the big problem with those dick lighters. Hold them up and put your lighter directly on the side of the candle and watch the soot that happens if anybody is wondering and you can see it happen.

1:25:01Etienne FontanYou're muted, Todd.

1:25:03SpeakerI was going to say that Rod Clark taught me when I first met him in Amsterdam, we'd sit in the greenhouse smoking hash, the art of lighting a hash pipe because really it shouldn't be lit, it should be heated. You should just use that flame to warm the bowl so that you basically vaporize the hashish and you can taste the full body of it. If you have sucked the flame into the pipe, you have failed.

1:25:27SpeakerIt was basically the lesson.

1:25:30BubblemanNo, I think it's like you've got to use a Zippo and you've got to overfill it so while you're using it, it's dripping the fuel into your bowl. That's some high school shit right there. How about that?

1:25:40AdamHave you guys seen those new plasma lighters that they have? It's like two purple lightsabers going end to end. I wonder what kind of flavor that's giving off.

1:25:50BubblemanMan, I'll tell you, no matter what it is, it changes the profile. The more that I learn to hit off of quartz versus titanium versus ceramic versus silicon carbide versus sapphire versus whatever, there's so many different surfaces that as they all retain and release heat differently, they also release the flavor profile differently of a terpene profile. It's pretty incredible.

1:26:17Etienne FontanIt's been fascinating to be trying different nails over the years and to see the different effects and feel the different effects even off the same cannabis because I can get a different effect off of a titanium nail than I can off the silicon carbide versus a sapphire versus a quartz.

1:26:35BubblemanYeah, no, absolutely. There's subtle differences, but the differences are vast. And when you're getting as obsessive as we are into trying to preserve or trying to wash, you know, like Chris with liquid nitrogen, if you're trying to preserve all of those terpenes, you might even want to make sure that you find the method that gives you the most flavor profile from what you've preserved in the first place.

1:27:00BubblemanBecause if you just go throw it on a, You know, a badly seasoned titanium nail at 900 degrees. You may be losing some of the subtle nuances that you were trying to preserve in the first place.

1:27:12Etienne FontanAnd I did see somebody actually makes bowls now with magnifying glasses on the top of them. So they're all set. So all you have to do is just go right outside and just hit some sun.

1:27:24BubblemanI would say when Todd said wear shades, I would step that shit up to wear welder's goggles or glass blower goggles. Shades because honestly like from someone who used to be really into solar bowling, that shit will blind you. Try not to stare at the little dot of sun, like stare just over to the side of it so you're using your peripheral vision.

1:27:45SpeakerAnd be careful where you are pointing the magnifying glass. I've seen friends burn their girlfriend's legs accidentally and burn their own legs and not paying attention after they did their bong hit where the sun was going through the magnifying glass and it's It's an instant, instant, instant super burn.

1:28:03BubblemanI'll tell you. Talk about super burns for just a quick second. When you said burn the leg, when my friend brought the cherry oil from the Kootenays to Vancouver and he was making this cherry oil back in the 90s before bubble bags and all these other things, We were not smart how we were inhaling it. Our friends were like, yeah, we'll make this thing called the mare, which was like this crazy spoon bent over a torch.

1:28:26BubblemanAnd so you'd heat this spoon up and it would get way too hot. And putting a dab of oil, a huge dab of oil on this hot spoon, so hot that the oil literally just danced right off of the spoon onto this girl's leg. And oh my God, it was like a quarter gram of boiling oil. That splashed down on her leg. It was probably the size of like a silver dollar for you Americans or a toonie for you Canadians.

1:28:53BubblemanOh, I'll tell you. That was the, I changed the way I did things after that day. Just looking at that happening and thinking, man, like cannabis is not supposed to hurt people.

1:29:05Etienne FontanYeah, the hash burns are the freaking worst because, yeah, it's scalding. It's scalding.

1:29:11SpeakerCome on, I remember when we used to have holes in our shirts from seeds. Am I the only one? Am I that old?

1:29:17BubblemanNot the seeds. Seeds with popping joints in the 70s.

1:29:21SpeakerBack in the day, kids. Man, in Europe, you want to know if somebody smokes, you look at his clothes. You cannot put something without having a little oil coming in the first few hours.

1:29:35BubblemanThat crazy hash, it was just to show you the level of contamination that was occurring, because those little balls and whatever, they would just come red hot, and then hot, and then flaming, flaming, flaming.

1:29:51SpeakerThat used to be true, Frenchy, for sure. I dropped hash, little red hot hash coals on half of my clothing until I started smoking hash that bubbles and melts. It makes stain on your clothing, but it doesn't burn holes because there's no cherry. I'm talking about people mixing it with cigarettes. I spliff. I've never met anybody who does that. Oh, yeah? Nice to meet you, son.

1:30:25BubblemanOh, my God. That's funny.

1:30:28SpeakerThat's funny.

1:30:30BubblemanYeah, for me, it was always hash. It was always hash burners, we called them. You know, it was, like, definitely not a good idea to roll up a big hash spliff and then, like, drive because you'd be, like, you'd be doing this. Oh, shit.

1:30:44SpeakerAlmost getting into a... And I guarantee you, Frenchy, when I used to roll Thai weed and Afghani joints, I dropped cherries on myself a million times.

1:30:58SpeakerRemember seeds in our weed, though? That is a long time ago. I remember picking them out on the album. There's a whole generation of kids that don't even know that. Albums. Albums.

1:31:06BubblemanThey don't even have records. They broke the butt up on and then got the seeds separated.

1:31:11SpeakerThat's all I know. They're the best.

1:31:14BubblemanI was right at the end of that. Thank you, Dad, for passing me all your albums. Old Led Zeppelin albums.

1:31:21SpeakerDude, Houses of the Holy, when you'd open it up and roll your joints with the fucking, going up the fucking thing. I loved it. Oh, the world. I forget which album it was. I think it was Jackson Airplane. They built a rolling box into the album cover that you could fold up, and it was a little rolling box for separating seats.

1:31:48Etienne FontanI don't miss separating seeds from my weed. I really, really, really don't.

1:31:54BubblemanYeah, I don't miss that at all. And worse yet is what Todd was talking about. I never saw the seeds really dropping and burning people, but what I saw was I smelled the seeds. And until I even was in a room where people were smoking DMT, I never really associated it with that. But I'll tell you, it's definitely like the smell of burning seeds. Reminds me of people smoking synthetic DMT.

1:32:19Etienne FontanYou know it.

1:32:19SpeakerIt's the smell of burning essential fatty acids.

1:32:23Etienne FontanYou know that smell. It's that worst smell. It's that, oh, who did it?

1:32:28BubblemanIt's like, oh, you made rosin with seeded bud?

1:32:32SpeakerBut you've got to be thankful for seeded buds in one reason. Without it, how could a cannabis ever, the seed bud, The way the seeds got to America was inside of smuggled cannabis. Right. And that's what everybody grew.

1:32:52BubblemanWell, good on them. Good on all you people that felt the need to practice civil disobedience and smuggle cannabis, cannabis concentrates, seeds, all over the world. We are the carriers. We have definitely brought this plant to all four corners of the earth if it wasn't already there.

1:33:17SpeakerActually, it started so long ago that we cannot trace the birthplace of the plant.

1:33:23BubblemanYeah, or ourselves for that matter.

1:33:27SpeakerNo, we know where we started, but we don't know where that plant was born. It's all Central Asia or the feet of the Himalaya.

1:33:37Etienne FontanOr it goes as far back as Penn and Juneau.

1:33:42SpeakerYeah, that's as far as they traced it.

1:33:45BubblemanOr perhaps the Anunnaki product from Nibiru. Who's to say?

1:33:49SpeakerNo, but it's interesting because there is no other plant like that.

1:33:56BubblemanOnly one person smiled at my statement.

1:33:58SpeakerHe was like, what? What? What? What?

1:34:04SpeakerI used to discuss this with Rob Park. He felt, this was like 30 years ago, that there was no proof that cannabis was around 15,000 years ago. Now, he doesn't think that anymore, but he was just being a cold clinical scientist and saying there is no proof, which technically he was right.

1:34:28BubblemanRight.

1:34:34BubblemanTime for a little bong rap, House Church 90 Micron. 895 people watching around the world right now. Hope you guys are getting something out of this conversation.

1:34:46BubblemanHemp seed oil for president. I agree with that, Guild Extracts.

1:34:55BubblemanCannabis would make a great president.

1:34:58SpeakerSo ask everybody out there who are American voters. If Trump really is serious about legalizing marijuana in all 50 states, would you vote for him?

1:35:11BubblemanOh, shouldn't we first ask how many people actually believe voting has anything to do with the actual outcome of an election? Because that would be an interesting first question.

1:35:21Etienne FontanSam, Trump is like that guy trying to get laid on a Friday night. He's going to say anything to get in her pants. Unfortunately, he's just trying to fuck us, the American people.

1:35:30SpeakerHe's got me, man. I'm going to vote for him if he's going to legalize marijuana in all 50 states. Hillary sucks, or maybe that's why I don't like her, because she doesn't.

1:35:42BubblemanBecause she doesn't. There you go. Well, I don't know about elections and voting and whatnot, but fuck those guys. I don't think they even make hash.

1:35:58BubblemanWow, people sure hate. People are very passionate about this politics thing, this election thing. It's pretty incredible to see. You can get people enraged. You got the chat going, Sam.

1:36:11Etienne FontanDidn't Mark Twain say if voting matters it would be made illegal? Yes, exactly.

1:36:20SpeakerI doubt that I could ever vote for Trump or Hillary. Hillary's just a day late and a dollar short.

1:36:30Etienne FontanShe has the dollars. Let's still count, guys. I'd be right.

1:36:37SpeakerLet's talk hash. I have one question for you. That paper that talk about that monoterpen that is so rare that they won't call it hashishin that you find in every hash piece. Have any of you read the actual scientific research? I read the paper. It's like, for me, I always knew that pressing brought a lot to the game. Outside decarboxylation, that I really thought that I was looking down my tear pen inside the mass of resin.

1:37:18SpeakerBut to realize that I'm creating 50 plus compounds that are an elevation from the original that you can find in a dry and live plant, And creating monotherpene that are so rare that they don't even have a name. Well, they do have a name now. Change literally the dimension of pressing for me. It's like, it's actually a scientific proof that traditional pressing has really something behind to show beyond aging.

1:37:56SpeakerWell, it shows it changes, but until you smoke hashishin with THC, you don't know whether it's something that you like or something you don't like. There is always THC in hashish, huh? I mean, the one I smoke. Yes, but what I'm saying is that if you smoke hashishin with THC, Does it improve the effects, or does it make the effects that you don't like? Maybe it makes the effects really old and cloudy, and that's clear.

1:38:33SpeakerWe don't know, but it's part of almost every hashish. No, that's not true. It was founded in the hashish that had been seized by the police and was old. It's not in every hashish. That hasn't been proven.

1:38:53BubblemanYeah, that's what Chimera was saying, that we haven't really found it in many places at all right now.

1:39:02BubblemanIt could be there. He's trying to get in.

1:39:06SpeakerYes, it could be there in every single hash, even if it's not even heated and pressed. We just don't know. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, after reading the paper, my chemistry sense tells me, like... Bobo Man's spidey sense tells me that it's probably more prevalent because the question is not why is this material forming. The question really is why wouldn't it form because these materials, again, most of those terpenes are metastable and will do chemistry.

1:39:44SpeakerI want to try it.

1:39:47DablogicDidn't most traditional hash cultures leave the hash unpressed before the consumer would get it? It was up to the consumer to press it?

1:40:06BubblemanHard to say if pressing was, you know, how... No, no.

1:40:09SpeakerHashish was normally kept unpressed. It was pressed when a customer told them what size they wanted, what shape they wanted, blah, blah, blah.

1:40:23Etienne FontanWhat sayeth you, Frenchie?

1:40:25SpeakerI see a shaking head. No, I don't think so. It's an old traditional way. You press before you smoke. I've never been with any... Nobody who doesn't press ash in the producing country. No, no, French, you misunderstood me. That's not what I said. I said they store the hash as a powder and then they press it before they sell it or get involved with business or smoke it.

1:40:57SpeakerI think they were aging also in time. Yesterday I spent some time with one of the Brotherhood of Love And the one who was in Afghanistan. And I finally could ask somebody Who was from that group, if there were a difference between the first export that they did from Afghanistan that was ash, aged ash, then after a few years, if they had felt a difference in quality.

1:41:27SpeakerAnd he assured me that yes, for the beginning they had the greatest ash, and then the quality went down. They didn't really realize why, but I'm pretty sure that they... They bought so fast, so much, that they emptied the country of aged ash, and that they really felt a difference in quality when they started to buy only what was made the year before.

1:42:03BubblemanGot anything to say about that, Sammy?

1:42:09SpeakerSounds like I went to the bed. I don't know what to say except for that if that happened around 1972 or 73 when the king was forced out, then the reason was because that's when modern Afghans started. It was not as pure. It was more adulterated and primarily for the reasons that you're saying, Frenchy, because they wanted to meet the market demands. And they produced, and they started also using mulberry sap and various other things to make it look like it was, when it was pressed, that it was high quality with the shine.

1:42:51SpeakerBut it wasn't. It was just, you know, inferior hash made to look like good hash.

1:42:58BubblemanYeah, I saw that in Switzerland. I saw a guy was taking his sort of shitty hash, he'd press it into these big like kilo blocks, pretty thick blocks. He put a little kind of leaf that was lifted up, made into the hash, almost like a mold. But then he'd take his good hash, like his melty hash, and he would melt it over the top of this hash and like make it so it looked like the piece was just unbelievable quality.

1:43:22BubblemanI was like, I was like, man, that seems a little bit deceiving. That's why I've always preferred my hash to be unpressed before I get it. I like to press it. I like to smoke it in a nice pressed piece. I also like to smoke it in powder.

1:43:39SpeakerWhat variety was that, Marcus? Was it a variety called bait and switch?

1:43:44BubblemanThe bait and switch, yeah, that was from Owl Productions in Switzerland down in Lugano, and that was the bait and switch. That was the, hey, this is the real gum, and then you go to buy like a big piece and it's breadfruit resin. It's like, oh, wonderful.

1:44:00DuchessHey Mark, let me just be honest about like that situation about pressing. So Frenchie told me some stories about doing the same thing, how people modified the hash and pre-pressed it and definitely made it look better. But just to betray how new I am to this less than two years. When I made some jagu last year for the farmers and I had it unpressed and I made some that was pressed, we smoked some, let's say, within the last two, three months.

1:44:34DuchessAnd it was way better, the pressed variety. And it was kept in the same conditions. So whereas you're bringing up the point that perhaps you don't have a whole bunch of proof that pressing has been done traditionally, Just like you said, we're progressing, and at this time, from an experiential standpoint, I see that it tastes better and it keeps better. Even in a cold environment, the hash just gets better.

1:45:03DuchessThat's why Mean Jeans hash is so much nicer years later, even though, as you said, he made it in conditions that were not ideal. He didn't keep it in the ideal conditions, and it wasn't the best material to begin with.

1:45:15BubblemanWell, I'm not saying don't press by any means. I'm saying when I get hash, I like for it to be unpressed because unfortunately, pressing may very well be... A root of tradition who really grabbed a hold of pressing are smugglers. They love pressing because first you can adulterate the hashish without people really knowing, and then you can of course smuggle the hashish because powder is much bigger and harder to move than tiny little pressed pieces.

1:45:41BubblemanSo unfortunately that sort of group of people have been prevalent in the pressing and the moving of the hash. I'm in Canada, so we see a lot of hash come in via Montreal. Please mute your mic if you don't mind, Tony. Holy shit. We just see a lot of different, you know, we get hash that comes into Montreal, and then these guys take it, and they break it down, and then they adulterate it with like an enormous amount of cut, like 50 plus percent.

1:46:11BubblemanSo I'm not saying don't press. I'm just saying, when I get my hash, I like for it to be unpressed, and then I can do with it as I please if I want to press it up and cure it for some years. I just like to be able to see the resin, particularly under my macroscopic lens. I love to be able to look really close up at the resin and see what I'm about to consume.

1:46:33SpeakerOptions, options. To tell you the truth, imported hashish is almost impossible to get as just a powder resin. It's easy to get pressed. For sure.

1:46:46BubblemanYep. Unless you go right there to the place where it's being made before they're pressing it, which we've seen as well. Welcome, Tony. That was quite the bong rip.

1:47:01TonySorry about that. I thought I hit mute as soon as I came in. I did not mean to disrespect the room. No, that's all right.

1:47:07BubblemanI've been muting people. Todd and Frenchie have a really bad echo going on, so I've been pretty much on muting that mic the entire thing, but I was really more upset with myself because I missed muting your mic, because it is really my job to mute the mics. I know that. And when I didn't, I was like, fuck, I'm going to lose my train of thought, and I didn't mean to call you out like that, but thanks for wearing the 90 micron shirt.

1:47:34BubblemanRespect.

1:47:37AdamI'm not going to lie, it was kind of awesome.

1:47:40BubblemanYou were laughing, dude. I saw you loving it.

1:47:43AdamBro, I just saw him come in and he just started dying and I had to start laughing. It was pretty awesome. I wish I started church like that.

1:47:50BubblemanDude, one time, and I don't know which hash church it was, but one time Tony was like, let's all do a dab, and we all did this monster dab, and literally the entire panel was coughing and pouring out of their eyes and like literally just kind of doing what he did when he just came in there.

1:48:07Etienne FontanI liked it. At least you didn't drool dip. Yeah, absolutely.

1:48:16SpeakerHow dare you.

1:48:19BubblemanHow dare you? Your mic sounds fine now, Todd.

1:48:22SpeakerWhat the heck? We switched it, and we, uh, noise, and, uh, ATN was nice enough to complain off-screen.

1:48:33BubblemanOh, nice. ATN, you are a good complainer. He's like, I know how to do it.

1:48:40SpeakerI want to say thank you for everybody joining us today. You know, we started doing Astro just having fun. It's, I think, turned into an educational tool for a lot of people. I get so much good feedback and just everybody coming in like this and sharing their experience. When I first got into cannabis activism, really that's what was so exciting. Everybody was kind of getting together for the first time and sharing their experience, although we were doing it on college lawns and, you know, various venues we could find along the way.

1:49:09SpeakerBut This is neat, and I just want to thank everybody for showing up today. It's cool. Absolutely.

1:49:17SpeakerWhat is the variety of hash that you made in America that you like the best? And why did you like it the best? And how was it made? Water? Dry sift? Here, I mostly do water. I don't think I lose anything in water. And

1:49:40SpeakerFor me, it's hard to say what I prefer because my youth, I had only six choices, six flavors. Morocco, Lebanon, Paki, Afghani, India, Nepal. That's it. Here, every strain is like stepping in a new producing country. There must be one that just raised your bell. Yeah.

1:50:09SpeakerWhat's that sound?

1:50:12SpeakerI'm not sure who was supposed to be talking, but I was just... Well, he was talking, and then you cut him off, but what did you say? I apologize. That's okay. I'm just wondering, is there one variety that just really stands out and rang your bell, and you'd really like to have lots more of that?

1:50:30BubblemanI'm good. Some Subcool. It's got to be a Subcool strain. Let's listen to it.

1:50:34SpeakerNo. No, actually, it's aficionado. It's called Pinot Noir. Oh, Pinot Noir. The first time that I made a hash that tastes like chocolate. Like chocolate. It's amazing. And it's not been released yet. And when it's going to be released, I will be the only one to have access to it. And it will be available only as hashish. And do you like it better, the taste and the effects, both?

1:51:04SpeakerBoth. It's a blackberry kush and a paki 78. Both grown in Mendocino by the same people on the same place. For two generations, and she's amazing. It's like she packs a punch, but it's light, it's comfy.

1:51:30DuchessFrenchie, that was my first article. The very first article I did for Weed World was on that Pinot Noir. And she's, I mean, super sweet. Easy, slides in super nice, and for that being my introduction to hash, it was just amazing. Amazing. I would have that over and over.

1:51:50Etienne FontanWhy is it named Pinot Noir? Does it taste like it, or does it have a hue of?

1:51:55DuchessNo, I wouldn't say it has a hue of Pinot Noir. You'd have to ask Frenchie to talk about the history of that. But I wouldn't say it has a wine-like flavor at all.

1:52:07SpeakerThe flower was very different from the ash. The flower had nothing to do actually to the ash. But the ash just tastes like an amazing chocolate. The cured resin, the live resin was very floral with an hint of lavender to it.

1:52:33AdamI was going to say that there was one strain of terpene that I had tried that was chocolate-esque, I guess. I wonder if the genetics are similar on that. The Swiss Tsunami, Tony, do you know what the genetics were for the appearance of that?

1:52:50TonyThat's a sour tsunami.

1:52:53AdamThe Swiss, oh, okay, I have one labeled Swiss.

1:52:57TonyYeah, and then there's a CBD Swiss Gold. Okay. So it's Swiss Gold by Sour Tsunami, I believe. Okay.

1:53:05AdamYeah, I found that that one had a sort of a chocolatey taste after I dipped it in it a little while.

1:53:18TonyWell, I'm trying to get 90 dabs in this hour, guys, so I apologize if I keep up with this pace. I'm about nine in, so I only have about 81 left to go.

1:53:29BubblemanThat sounds reasonable. Yeah, that sounds like a good day.

1:53:35TonyYeah, we could smoke 90 grams or take 90 hits. You know, I don't think I could smoke 90 grams right now. Oh, you could do it, dude.

1:53:45BubblemanAll right, so who else is going to join the 90 dab challenge for Hash Church?

1:53:49AdamI'll give her a try.

1:53:51BubblemanI know Chris is down for sure.

1:53:54Etienne FontanI have to be at least 50 in then.

1:53:56SpeakerCan I only be during Hash Church or can it be just today?

1:54:04BubblemanNo, it has to be right now in the next 13 minutes. If you're going to fucking play the game, you've got to play hard. This is Hashtag 90. Come on.

1:54:12DuchessSee, this is testosterone-fueled. And as a woman, I don't have enough testosterone, so I'll sit it out.

1:54:18TonyWell, Duchess, this is also, I'm timing everything out. So mathematically speaking, it is possible. If I hit one every two and a half minutes, so,

1:54:33DuchessCheering you on! Woo! Woo!

1:54:34AdamWoo!

1:54:39Etienne FontanGo team.

1:54:42BubblemanYes, go team indeed. Hashish has come a far way, you know, in the last... Really like 20 years. It's really had a serious evolution. You know, it's done, I mean, it's come a long way in the last many hundreds, if not thousands of years, depending on what historical context you decided to believe in. Chris Bennett, I did invite him in because I love his history that he shares with us.

1:55:11BubblemanHe can always tell us how far back things went. I know that you're also a bit of an aficionado on the history, Sam.

1:55:20AdamI had a question for the group, I guess we could steer it in a direction. What was the, how and what was the first way, I guess, that you tried hash? Not cannabis, but actual hashish. For me, the first time I ever tried it was, we used to smoke joints and stuff all the time, my friends and I, in high school, and one day my friend just, he had this little wrapped up tinfoil ball.

1:55:46AdamThere was this little dark brown, black looking Just like a little piece of like mouse poo or something, you know, like to someone who'd never seen ash before. I didn't really know what it was and I thought it was some crazy other drug or something. He was trying to get me to try and he's like, no man, it's just like, it's just weed basically. So I was like, all right, I'll try it out.

1:56:04AdamWe sat in his car in this parking lot of a church, actually. We rolled up this little ball, and he stuck it on the end of a thumbtack.

1:56:11SpeakerOh, shit.

1:56:13AdamWe lit it with a torch, and we were just, like, sucking the little stream of smoke into our mouths. And I remember just, like, watching him do that for the first time, and I was just like, like, oh, my God. Look at this. Like, it was just, it was so trippy the way the smoke had this, like, little spiral kind of going into his mouth. And I was...

1:56:32AdamWe shared one little ball and I was gone. That's awesome.

1:56:38BubblemanI also smoked hash in a similar way. I can't really remember the exact first time I smoked hash because my whole cannabis thing, I went from newbie to deeply into it in a week. It was like I was buying a joint and then seven days later I was buying half pounds. I really got into it pretty fast. People were like, damn, that shit escalated fast with you.

1:57:00BubblemanI'm like, That scene in Half Baked when they like smoke it for the first time and go into the store and he's like hugging the Abba Zabba bar. He's like, you're my only friend. I swear my first experience smoking cannabis was similar to that. But we also smoked hash on a pin. We didn't roll it into a ball. We'd roll it into a flat little piece and then actually roll it around like a Bic pen.

1:57:22BubblemanSo it was hollow, so you could pop it off the pen, put the pen right through the hash, and then light the whole bottom, which was like, you know, the rim of a glass or whatever. You'd light the whole thing. It would turn into a cherry, and then you want to see something smoke. The smoke would come up through the middle, and we would usually do it with like a gram of hash at a time.

1:57:42BubblemanWe kind of had a little thing that we designed. It was a little glass piece that went over top of it, and then we had little hoses that Four little hoses and me and my buddies would smoke like a grandma hash in one shot and that was probably only a year or two after puffing. Thank you.

1:57:59Etienne FontanMine was, yeah, it was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and we took this needle and pushed it through the cardboard and then we took a glass and put it over it so we heated the hash and then we put it over and then it would smoke and then you'd slide the glass over to the edge and you'd just sit. You know, right off the edge of it just to get your hit.

1:58:21Etienne FontanWow, I remember that first time. Yeah, I was completely wrecked. I was like, wow.

1:58:28BubblemanYeah, that's awesome.

1:58:29SpeakerDon't forget Hot Knives either. 1965, Hollywood, Red Lebanese. We smoked it in a regular little pipe. And I smoked it and I said, wow, I wish I could afford this all the time.

1:58:46Etienne FontanHow much was that back then?

1:58:48SpeakerOh, it was ridiculously cheap, like $50 an ounce or something. Marijuana at the time cost $10 for a four-finger lid, which was more than an ounce.

1:59:03Etienne FontanWow. Yeah, but back then hash was few and far between, so that's why we treated it that way.

1:59:09SpeakerIn Hollywood, there was no shortage of weird drugs.

1:59:15Etienne FontanYeah, I learned that when I lived in Laurel Canyon myself. It's quite a strange place. Hey Frenchie, you have some upcoming lectures that people could learn or know about so that they could come see you in person around the country?

1:59:34SpeakerI have a workshop the 25th this month in San Diego. And two workshops in Denver the first weekend of July. The first and second. And that's about it. I'm trying to organize one or two more in NorCal. But I'm trying to do the workshop in states where it's legal so that anybody can come and do the workshop, basically.

2:00:13DablogicWhere will you have it in Denver?

2:00:17SpeakerAt Adam Dunn's show place. I'm not sure where it is.

2:00:26SpeakerDowntown Denver, someone.

2:00:28Etienne FontanYou got to do better than that in the future. They're Frenchy.

2:00:31SpeakerI don't know. For me, it's all the same. It's a cool place in Denver. Let's do it. There you go. Teaching has taken a huge part of my life. It's like I am so into... I have so much respect for tradition and every new scientific discovery proving that there is a lot behind those traditions for me to be able to give that respect to people to make them understand that those people invented the game and we need to learn from them before we can bring the game further.

2:01:15SpeakerIt's a... It's trippy. It's like sharing my life. It's sharing all those years I've been traveling. It means a lot for me now. Almost as much as actually producing.

2:01:33Etienne FontanSo you're teaching people your secrets and not only that, about your travels as well.

2:01:38SpeakerYeah, basically I'm trying to combine both.

2:01:45DuchessI have to say I'm really appreciative of Frenchie having been my teacher, even though I didn't, especially since I didn't know a single thing about hash. The most hash I've ever had was, like I said before, a really, really small Not even the size of a quarter. So when I saw his hash for the first time, these huge brown logs of chocolate goodness, dabbed it. That was at 2014 San Francisco High Times in Santa Rosa.

2:02:14DuchessAfter that, I was absolutely hooked. And now, even though my husband gets great flowers... If it doesn't have hash mixed in it, it's not, I'm not going to smoke the joint. And dabbing hash is the way for me. And it's Frenchie that set me on that path, and I'm really appreciative about that.

2:02:35TonyWell, I could add to some Frenchie praise, I guess. You know, I know that in the hash world, different people represent different things, and some people... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:03:20TonySo playing with the terpene consistencies from the single source and then evaporating them out and seeing it do different things. We talk about the resin maturing. I think that underlying is the terpenes are maturing along the way too. And so they're finding their way. It's like we created chaos among all the terpenes. They're all in their little home and then boom, we shatter it. And then they don't know what's going on.

2:03:47TonyThey're just all in chaos. And that curing process kind of allows them to find their territories in their way, whether they're going to push or pull different moistures in. And it makes a unique thumbprint, if you will, for the resin, how those terpenes play. So I personally want to thank you for always making those claims and sticking to what you believe over the years. And everybody has something to offer.

2:04:19TonyThe movement overall, so much appreciated and respect, man.

2:04:25SpeakerThank you so much, man. I appreciate it. And also, it's like I actually work with breeders and growers that grow and breed terpene. Everything is terpene. Cannabinoids are terpene compounds. And if something doesn't smell Or taste good, doesn't matter how much, how melty it is, you have lost it. If you lose the terpene while you collect that resin, doesn't matter the way you collect that resin, maybe like a sieving or extracting, if you lose the terpene, the game is over.

2:05:03BubblemanBut is the game over? Because we had Irvin Rosenfield in here, medical patient. He smokes the, like, lowest quality schwag from Mississippi. But it works for him. Would we want to take that away from him? Because it's not, like, I often think, like, maybe there's room for everything. Even, like, people that want stuff that isn't terpene rich. Because there's the connoisseurs like us who want, you know, the best quality that we can.

2:05:30BubblemanAnd there's a lot of med patients that are in the same boat. But I really had my mind opened by Irv coming on and sort of saying, hey, this works for me. It works.

2:05:40Etienne FontanI've seen firsthand of a woman who only uses leaf because her eyeballs pop out of her skull because of pressure behind her eyes. And she's tried high-end bud, medium grade, low grade. All that works for her is leaf. And that causes her to relax and her eyes to relax and pop back into her skull. Okay, so... I'm very humbled by what low-quality medicine can do and the benefits it has because it's working every day for people.

2:06:15Etienne FontanI initially agree with Frenchy. I always thought only high-end stuff worked, but it was the patients who showed me all the different ranges of cannabis and what works and what is possible.

2:06:30BubblemanYeah, it's interesting. I guess for me as I get older, I just realize I want more. More availability, more access, and more options. You know, I just, I'm not as, you know, when I first started the bags, I was just like water hash, water hash, water hash, water hash, and then I slowly got into dry sift, and then the rosin opened up, and I just think even though I myself might not be into it, like I don't smoke cannabis at all, I still, I don't try to convince people that they shouldn't smoke cannabis.

2:06:59BubblemanI think that the variety is kind of the spice of life and the fact that cannabis can offer us so much variety is really a testament to the power behind that plant. It's incredible. What do you got there, Chris? Pressing it out? A little waterfall tech? Looks like you're making a little bit of rosin there.

2:07:24Etienne FontanThat looks squishy.

2:07:27BubblemanYeah, I like the hammock, the parchment hammock. Oh yeah, open that up. Yep, there we go. Getting it all out nicely.

2:07:41Etienne FontanThat's a nice golden color.

2:07:43BubblemanNow Sam and I were talking about this the other day. Traditionally, oil and hash are different things. In my opinion, I think of oil, whether it's been made with a chemical solvent or whether it's been made like what he's doing right in front of us, I think of it as an oil, not a hash. I guess I think of that mostly from Rob's book, Hashish, and the definitions in the book, but also just how I kind of grew up.

2:08:10BubblemanThere was always a definition, a difference between hash and oil, and I guess I just kind of would like to hear the panel's Opinion on are they different hash and oil or are they just the same? Is oil hashish in your opinion or is hashish hashish and oil oil?

2:08:28Etienne FontanQuickly we call it hash oil so I call it hash oil.

2:08:31BubblemanBut that's only if it's been made from hash.

2:08:35AdamAnd that's what I was going to say is that I work a lot with hash rosin as opposed to flour rosin, which would be oil. I don't work with any solvent per se as far as chemical solvents go. But I definitely notice that when I see people dabbing BHO, there is not much left on the nail. And when you have somebody dabbing even clear rosin, hash rosin, There's still something left on that nail a little bit.

2:09:04AdamMaybe if you get in there at a super macro level, you may see little bits of trichome heads still stuck in that, but I feel like there's something different happening on that nail when you're dabbing BHO than when you're dabbing even hash rosin or flower rosin because there's something left on the nail after you're smoking the rosins, which is kind of interesting, which makes me think I'm inhaling something from

2:09:31SpeakerThe BHO that I'm not inhaling from the... Well, Rob Clark explained to me that basically when you have a piece of BHO or shatter... It's in flux. It's constantly moving. The lighter terpenes are coming to the top, and the heavier cannabinoids are sinking to the bottom. You're going to get this natural separation that happens. What you're talking about to me is just these thinner oils and alcohols that are the terpenes leaving a residue that you can't pick up with a dabber or a Q-tip or anything else.

2:10:04SpeakerOnce it's there, it's there. You know what I mean? It's so micro-small. You know, you can't take a pen and pick it up with the head of a pen because it's just, you know, part of the metal, part of the glass, part of the steel. And also we are dealing with different product. When you dissolved the resin, when you use a solvent, you don't only get what is inside the resin head.

2:10:28SpeakerYou get a lot more cannabinoid from the plant matter. When you rosin, especially when you rosin ash, you just squeeze out with a little heat and a lot of pressure the resin out. So that resin is closer to what the plant had offered. When you dissolve it, you go a step away, if I may say, from what the plant offered in the first place. So when it burns, that This soft resin, it doesn't even, it combusts straight up.

2:11:08SpeakerThe resin that has been squished out by press gets longer to actually combust. There is sometimes in between it starts bubbling. It's closer to what the wellness of ash is.

2:11:29BubblemanJust showing Chris's camera right now. He's giving us a nice little shot on this oil squish. Filling it up nicely. Not sure what he's got sitting there, but it's definitely a decent amount.

2:11:42TonyHe's got a kiddie pool sitting there is what he has. Just a little kiddie pool. It's a kiddie pool of rosin.

2:11:51BubblemanIt's wonderful.

2:11:52Etienne FontanThat's the kind of pool I want to swim in.

2:11:57BubblemanIndeed. I'm glad someone's in the lab making oil and hash today. I'll tell you that much.

2:12:06BubblemanLet's get the big cable. There we go. It's set up. It's going off. It's good. So what do we got? Geez, have we already been doing this for a couple of hours? Holy schnapps. Talking about hash on Hash Church episode 90. 90 episodes is kind of unbelievable. We haven't missed a single week in 90 weeks of doing this.

2:12:29SpeakerOne of the things you were talking about, Marcus, is the difference between hash and oil, if there is a difference. One thing is that all hash, even what they call shatter and all that, it's really, I mean, glass, when you look at, I'm talking about silicon glass, It's not really a solid. If you sit it up long enough, it will slowly, over long, long, long periods of time, get thicker at the bottom than it is at the top.

2:13:04SpeakerAnd these things are even much more so that. They're all, in fact, solid. They're in motion.

2:13:16SpeakerYeah, they're what a chemist would call an amorphous solid.

2:13:19BubblemanAh, the old amorphous solid. Coming up, a brand new Bubble Man brand. We're going to be rocking the amorphous solid.

2:13:30SpeakerWell, you know, it made more sense to me when Rob broke it down so simplistically. And, you know, just the idea of these lighter molecules moving away from heavier molecules like, you know, a drink, an alcohol mixed drink at the end of a long party sentence for too long, it made clean sense to me. And, uh,

2:13:50SpeakerI mean, if the molecules finding each other is a low energy pathway, so one THC acid can crystallize and it could form a crystalline lattice, there's a certain energy that's gained from that lattice energy, and so that's when you'll start to see phase separation and things will start to sugar out because essentially nature is lazy and will take the low energy pathway. Is it lazy or efficient?

2:14:15SpeakerI'm sorry, it's efficient, yes. I shouldn't call Mother Nature lazy, sorry. Yes, it's efficient. It's energetically or thermodynamically allowed. Let's put it that way. She's like, I know the quick way.

2:14:28BubblemanYeah.

2:14:29SpeakerThat's right. Can we go back to ask Chris about the boiling point of THC? Because again, this is highly contested in chat rooms and on the literature. It would almost be interesting to ask everybody who's got an e-mail what they have their e-mail set at. And again, whether or not the e-mail is set To the right temperature to vaporize THC, I guess is the question. Yeah.

2:14:55BubblemanThat's the trick, you know. I can tell you from someone who uses an e-mail religiously, I have three of them plugged in right beside me here, that, you know, there's, and it's kind of the thing I've mentioned a few times in regards to that sublimator, Enrico Bouchard, he's got this unit called the sublimator, and although it is very big and kind of bulky and potentially mildly dangerous because it gets very hot, It gives the most incredible fucking hit.

2:15:23BubblemanAnd what it gives me, the equivalent of a denail hit is this. It gives me the equivalent of a 480 degree fully like unreal terp rip. I get all that flavor. It preserves it in that little vortex that is created somehow. He's tapped into magic. Because even puffing it through that silly plastic tube, acrylic tube with the plastic It still tastes unbelievable. You just can't deny it.

2:15:51BubblemanAnd the D-Nail, what I found was I could kind of go, I could get the full smoky, like, rip, or I could get the vapory, tasty rip, or I could go in between, but the Sublimator seemed to give me both. It gave me this insane, like, coughing my ass off, like I just had my D-Nail set to 740 degrees, but it also tastes like I had it set.

2:16:14BubblemanWhat are those temperatures, Mark?

2:16:16SpeakerThank you for joining us.

2:16:43BubblemanThere's a translator on Google for you. You just punch in the Fahrenheit and then go in centigrade and it'll pop it right up. But I only use the one.

2:16:52SpeakerYeah, well, again, according to Mishulam's data, which suggests, based on a nomograph, that the boiling point of THC is 424 degrees Celsius, which is about 795 Fahrenheit.

2:17:07SpeakerThe question for Chris is if when you dab nothing but the clear, so I don't want any terpenes in this experiment, I want to know can you get a complete quantitative hit if you dab at a nail temperature below what the nomograph predicts the boiling point of THC to be based on Mishulam's data? Well, you going to answer that, Chris?

2:17:31BubblemanYou got to unmute, yeah. There's other variables.

2:17:35SpeakerI can... If I can comment for a second, besides atmospheric pressure, when you hit on a bong, you create air flow which alters the temperature that it will vaporize at. When you're hitting, you can vaporize at a slightly lower temperature. Right.

2:18:00BubblemanYeah, there's something to be said for that for sure because even the temperature of THC may start at 424 or 429, whatever it was that you mentioned, but it's at the hotter temperature that it's more instantaneously... Right. Inhaled, rather over this course of a minute to two to three minutes. How long does it take? Because that's the difference of what we're seeing, Mark. We're seeing the difference between getting all the hit in about ten seconds versus getting these low temp dabs that go on for two to three minutes.

2:18:31BubblemanAlthough they're tasty and they kind of give you a different head space, they certainly do not hit the way that hotter temperature dab hits when it just gives you the full like, just fills it up like the summer.

2:18:44SpeakerAnd when you're doing a high vacuum distillation to purify THC, you're doing fractional distillation, so the boiling point is going to change, there's no question about it. But when you're doing it in the middle of your rip, and you're pulling mostly THC, that's basically going to be a very good indication of And again, whether or not it's happening on a nail surface or the distillation pot, it's thermal energy being transferred to a material, taking that material, which is an oil, which again, maybe one of the reasons why people would call it hash oil, because perhaps the oil part of that was more decarboxylated THC just because it's an oil.

2:19:22SpeakerI'm just speculating on that. But whether it's happening on a nail surface or a distillation pot, The phenomena is the same, right? To vaporize...

2:19:32BubblemanBut the variables are different. How much liquid is there? How much surface area per oil is available? How hot can the oil get instantaneously? Or is it cooling as the bottom oil touches but the top is still at a lower temperature? That's the difference that you get with this fixed to 700 to 400 to 500.

2:19:51SpeakerWe've discussed this before, Marcus, but I always thought that the ultimate solution for this would be one that starts at the bottom temperature for taste and then immediately jacks up within, you know, 10 seconds or something to the higher temperature so that you actually get both. Yeah.

2:20:09TonyWell, and you have to factor. You have to factor.

2:20:16SpeakerSo what's happened about decarboxylation? If you don't do your decarboxylation before smoking, that CO2 molecule is not going to let the cannabinoids go through your blood barrier. When you smoke, it gets decarboxylated, period.

2:20:35BubblemanYeah, otherwise you wouldn't get high from it, that's for sure.

2:20:39SpeakerTo a point, there is some decarboxylation happening, but if you look at number, if you look at what it takes to actually really decarb, it's quite smart to decarb a little bit your product before you're going to smoke it, because you have more cannabinoids that will be going through your blood barrier. I'm not so sure about that. Smoking decarboxylates it completely. Do you have a comment on that, Mark?

2:21:11SpeakerYou need 30 minutes to 1 hour to do a decarboxylation at 180 Fahrenheit. You need 15 minutes at 300 Fahrenheit. You start transforming your THC into CBN, At 320 to 360, my question is, how much decarboxylation are you making at over 450, 500? Well, I would presume that if you decarboxylate it first and then you smoke it, then you'll be even creating more CBN and more. I mean, you're not getting more... You'll create a different effect.

2:21:57BubblemanYou'll create a different effect in the hash, for sure.

2:22:00SpeakerBut, I do think that everybody should smoke the way, prepare, and smoke what they prefer the best. Agreed. And, you know, if that is the way you prefer it, then you should absolutely decarboxylate it first. But I've never found the need for it. When we did GC analysis, I didn't see improvement in decarboxylating materials first.

2:22:32TonyAlso, one point is to factor in the fact that if you have, say, 10% terpenes into this THCA or whatever because that's basically hash because most water ash is THCA. So what you have to factor into is the boiling point of those terpenes are much lower than that 795 point. And so what effect does that have as they evaporate and boil off within the actual resin? You know what I mean?

2:23:04TonySo that might affect the boiling point of

2:23:09SpeakerAnd the terpene also, the terpene helps the cannabinoid go through the blood barrier even with the CO2 molecule. That's even more, that's why the importance of them. I believe that we should dig up to a certain point what we're going to smoke to be able to maximize the passing of the cannabinoids through our blood barrier. It's logical.

2:23:37BubblemanLike everyone should smoke that way, you mean? Are you saying that everyone should do it that way?

2:23:44SpeakerNo, I say, logically, it makes sense to have the maximum cannabinoid go through your blood barrier when you smoke. Technically speaking, that's what we all want. And I believe that some decarboxylation before smoking helps do that. That's all I say. If you analyze your pressed material, Franchi, what percent is THCA and what percent is still THC? I have 30 to 40 percent THC. The rest is THCA.

2:24:19SpeakerThe same for every cannabinoid. I basically get into the 30, 40 percent. Yeah, so it's about a third decarboxylated. Because at 70%, I will start transforming my THC into CBN. I don't want that. I understand. I usually come out with a quarter of a percent of CBN in my hash.

2:24:45SpeakerYeah, when we check fresh herb or fresh powdered hash, there's no CBN. Hmm.

2:24:54SpeakerHey Sam, I don't know if you saw that discussion on, I think it was the Hash Church Facebook page where people were asking about CBNA and whether or not CBNA was actually a cannabinoid that's typically observed. Well, yes, it's made by degradation of THCA. Then it goes to CBNA.

2:25:23SpeakerAnd then it decarboxylized to CBN. Yeah, I mean, the kinetics don't speak to that. I mean, the kinetics would say that it would decarboxylize rather than convert to CBN. This is what Dr. Mishulam explained to me, and I'm not sure. You know, I'm not a chemist. You know that. Well, the only report I could find was CBN. When CBNA was observed, they had to actually isolate it as it's methyl ester, and it was only after extensive column chromatography that they were able to determine, because it has a very unique molecular weight.

2:25:58SpeakerI think I might have also asked Dr. Osole and Dr. Pertree, but I don't remember that for sure. I do remember what Michulin had told me, but I can't swear that they're correct.

2:26:19TonyThese are tough questions, Mark. I like it.

2:26:23SpeakerIt's about time we did something useful, right?

2:26:25TonyWell, yeah, you've got to question certain people's work, you know. There's some good argument there on the info that you're talking about, though.

2:26:35SpeakerWell, this was a chromatogram that I think the guys from Steep Hill had posted, and they had called a little blip CBNA, and I asked if there was a commercial standard for Thank you so much for joining us.

2:27:18SpeakerThe thing that doesn't jive with that is the measured reaction kinetics for those reactions. So one is just much faster than the other, and so I can't reconcile that in my brain. You know that much better than I do. I just know what has been reported to me. Right. There's a really great comprehensive report that was republished about two or three years ago on the theoretical and experimental observable results for THC decarboxylation.

2:27:52SpeakerTHCA decarboxylation.

2:27:56BubblemanExcellent. Thank you for the clarification. Mr. Scaldone, Dr. Scaldone. Doctor, yeah, man.

2:28:04TonySo, I don't think I'm going to be able to make 90 dabs. Dude, come on, Tony, you're at 36. Keep going. I'm in like, I'm like not even, I'm almost a third of the way. I don't know if I can do it. You can do it. I could do it today. But I don't know if I could do it in like the next hour.

2:28:22BubblemanYou've got 32 minutes. Tony, it's all a matter of dose.

2:28:25SpeakerIt's just making micro... Tony. Mini hits. Mini hits. Micro hits. Micro, micro.

2:28:31Etienne FontanNone of us here are quitters. You're not a quitter, man. Come on now.

2:28:35SpeakerYou could micro dose a little tiny dose every breath you take from now to the end of church.

2:28:44BubblemanHe said every breath you take and no one stung every breath you take.

2:28:51TonyI think it's time for it. I mean, we've got to do the bong rip. All right.

2:28:56DuchessWell, shit.

2:28:58SpeakerHey, I'm curious if anyone on the panel has a question. Go for it. Cool. I was just curious. I've been playing around the lab, of course, like usual. Mark and myself are both chemists. I've been doing some THC acetate synthesis stuff and curious if anyone on the panel had ever tried or experienced the THC acetate themselves firsthand. Yes, sir. What's it look like? What's it look like?

2:29:31SpeakerCan you hold it up? Let's see. By TLC, it's one spot. It's fairly thin. I was surprised at how thin the product was. Purified by column chromatography. Started with high purity THC distillate. How did you work up the reaction? I worked it up with water and decomposed the acetic anhydride at a pretty high temperature for a decent amount of time and then just standard partition and sub-funnel extraction.

2:30:07SpeakerDo you like the effect? Honestly, my experience with it is very unique. It's like the dabs are extremely light tasting and have very little sinus effect. You don't get that expansion that you do normally with any of their cannabinoids. You don't get an immediate high and then within about 15 minutes the stoniness comes in and It lasts for like a really long time in my experience and me and like some lab mates who sampled the material felt pretty much the same way in that it's pretty interesting.

2:30:43SpeakerThe acetate is essentially acting as a prodrug and it has a half-life in vivo and so as that acetate gets hydrolyzed, it releases THC. So that explains the pharmacokinetics that you're observing, right? I suspect if you ate it, it would be like insanely potent. It's like very, very potent.

2:31:05SpeakerAnd do you think if that, if you did eat it, do you think you'd actually be getting high on 11-hydroxy, the breakdown, the metabolic, active metabolic of THC, or would it be a different metabolic?

2:31:23SpeakerWell, I think we'd have to have like, I think it'd be like a different combination of them. I think you'd have obviously the, like Mark said, you've got the pro drugs, so you'd be, you'd have the metabolism, metabolizing the THC, and then you'd have the 11-hydroxy from that, but I think there'd also be, you know, potentially some other compounds. I don't know, I'm not much of a biochemist.

2:31:44SpeakerYou're probably going to get hydrolysis of the acetate through the gut. I would imagine you'll get acetate hydrolysis in the gut. Immediately, completely. Yeah, I don't know. Actually, under acidic conditions, acetates can actually hold up, but it's phenolic acetate, which makes it a little more reactive. So it's likely going to be hydrolyzed in the gut and then go through the same type of metabolism that it would go through if you just ate THC.

2:32:11SpeakerAnd do you like it better than if you had just pure THC?

2:32:18SpeakerI mixed it with some rosin and it was quite a good experience. I got like the experience of the immediate THC in the terpene and then 20 minutes later was like pleasantly surprised by the slower sort of creeping upcoming stoniness. I would say that in large dabs. I've done some pretty large dabs of it in this. Really stony. Have you ever smoked pure THC to compare it to?

2:32:49SpeakerThe THCA? Yes, pure THCA. You're talking about like acid? Yeah, I smoke the THCA and pretty damn pure THC. And they're definitely different. I don't know if I would say better. I mean, there's like the conventional THC that you expect and the expected length of time for the experience. And I think that varies a little bit with the acetate.

2:33:19SpeakerYou ever dump acetic anhydride into your pot of clear and just rip it over as the acetate?

2:33:27SpeakerNo, I worked it over. I figured just because I worked it up rather. I figured the reaction didn't go to completion even in high so with having to still fuck around with some of the conditions. But I did it neat. That reaction I did do neat though. And it was like I just didn't bother doing the distillation. I figured the chromatography would be easier. Yeah. Chris, hit me up offline.

2:33:50SpeakerI can give you some catalysts that can work to make that reaction complete. Oh, yeah, well, that was a thing I wasn't going to tell anyone. I will talk about it, but I do have a secret catalyst, probably along the same lines. Yeah. But, yeah, we'll chat. I don't actually have your info. I've got to find you on the Internet. Where do I find you? I'll give you my Gmail.

2:34:10SpeakerHere it is.

2:34:11BubblemanYou guys can link on HashChurch90. That's the way to do it right there. Link up, everybody.

2:34:17TonyShare your information. It's fun. You're witnessing a bromance happen, folks.

2:34:23Etienne FontanA scientific, laboratory bromance at that.

2:34:26SpeakerChris has to promise to get one of those shirts for Mark. Yeah. Truth be told, when me and Chris first met at the High Times Cannabis Cup, In Sonoma, what, a year or so ago, a couple years ago? I think two or something like that. Yeah, I mean, we hit it off immediately and spoke for six hours after meeting each other. Nothing like geeking out on organic chemistry.

2:34:51TonyYou guys were so excited you forgot to switch contacts.

2:34:57SpeakerI had to keep on blowing Pinsky off because Pinsky kept on trying to pull me out of Chris's booth and it just didn't work.

2:35:04BubblemanWe just wanted you to get out of the way so we could take a selfie.

2:35:07SpeakerYeah, Chris's magnetism was greater than Penske. That was a good one.

2:35:19BubblemanJohn Mark Herring says he supports this social union. People are chatting away in the chat room. We've got 850 plus people watching Hash Church here. Going into our third hour, Hash Church. Actually, just finish them off.

2:35:37DuchessMark, I have a question.

2:35:38BubblemanGo ahead. I have a question.

2:35:40DuchessAll right. So on this panel, I'm definitely the least knowledgeable of anything having to do with hash and probably cannabis. But one thing I do know is about marketing. And what I think is interesting is that every week I tune in and learn something from people Thank you so much for being here.

2:36:16DuchessThank you so much for joining us.

2:36:46BubblemanAnd you take that plate and you spin it on a table. The way information was transferred 100 plus years ago is how the plate spins at the start. It kind of has this wobble to it, very slow. But as the plate approaches stopping, it gets faster and faster and faster and faster and it seems to be a metaphor. I think Art Bell... I wrote a really beautiful book.

2:37:11BubblemanMaybe it's called The Quickening. He wrote about how the vibration of life is speeding up, how information is being transferred faster than it ever has been transferred before. And I think social media is just a natural part of the evolution of that, which has been happening for a very long time. exponential growth of information transfer and that's why hash church has been so popular I think is because of the radical openness that we practice and how it's just about sort of putting it out there and sharing and when people can hear these things and then they can take those things into other conversations And be a part of it through social media.

2:37:47BubblemanNot just be like watching a television, but literally be a part of it. The people who are watching right now are in chat right now talking about the very things that we're talking about. And it's incredible. I think it's much bigger than marketing, that's for sure. And I think that because we've strayed away from the sponsorships and the sort of potential dilution of the integrity of Hash Church, if we were to take money From sponsors or promote things that maybe we didn't necessarily believe in.

2:38:18BubblemanIt's one of the reasons why the integrity is maintained strong is that everyone's doing it, you know, out of the goodness of their heart and yeah, social media for the win for sure.

2:38:29DuchessOh, for the most part, it definitely is organic. I wasn't coming from a marketing standpoint. I'm just saying that was my background. And so what I do for the most part is observe. I spend a lot of my day just observing, just observing. For one, it's an education... As if I was in college all over again. And I just watch friends of different ideas come and go.

2:38:51DuchessAnd I find that the education can be just so much faster if we all didn't hoard, which most people don't. People are free to give their techniques about everything. And that's just absolutely fantastic. If we all move from the standpoint that we can all teach someone else, then our educational growth will be exponential. So that's fantastic. And you never know.

2:39:11BubblemanThank you. The person that you're teaching may very well outshine even the master. So it's like you want to get that information out there because the next group of people doing it are going to better it. They're going to take it to that next level. They're going to... You know, it's like a relay race or whatever. We're just passing on the baton and then it comes back around and you're like, oh, I'll go for another round.

2:39:32BubblemanLike, yeah, this is great. I love bettering the hashish movement. That's why I love having all of you on here today and inviting people like yourself and people like Frenchie and people like Adam and Chris and Dab Logic in the house. People that are affecting the... The Hashish consciousness, you know, the group consciousness or the group hash consciousness of the world right now, you guys are all people that are affecting that in a more positive light.

2:40:02BubblemanSo, of course, you have a place on the Hash Church panel.

2:40:06SpeakerYou know, I want to speak a little to what you said, though, because I think it's, you know, this whole challenge of trying to educate society around us has been like a puzzle to me because we are, you know, we are trying to market our culture. We are trying to get The people around us to understand that we have, you know, a product or a concept or, you know, that they should learn about and accept.

2:40:29SpeakerIt's no different from if we were launching, you know, a new, you know, widget or Acme coyote bomb or something. Like people aren't going to know about it unless you tell them. And unfortunately, cannabis has suffered from misinformation, which was direct and deliberate. And we are fighting against You know, an ignorance and a prejudice that we can only win with education and conversation because unless we teach people history and we teach them what cannabis was and that it came from cannabis and that history shows us that our flags and our Bibles and all this stuff was made out of cannabis, they're not going to understand it.

2:41:08SpeakerJust as we didn't understand it before someone came along like Jack Herrick came along and taught me and taught a lot of us, we didn't get it until somebody like just showed us and As we're developing companies and we're trying to market stuff, we should all go back to our roots of realizing we're educating one another about what it is we're doing. And we're sharing that because that's building the community.

2:41:31SpeakerThat's helping one another. It's not about hoarding information or being the only guy that owns the fucking way to do something. It's really about trying to share the knowledge so that we can all benefit as earthlings. At least that's my real feeling here. And if it wasn't for people like Jack Herrer marketing a book by telling us the truth and it causing us to read this book of truth, you know, a lot of it may have been a little incorrect here and there.

2:41:56SpeakerJack may not have gotten it 100% right, but so it's... Seldom people really do, but he gave us a real incredible path that we should all follow, which was, you know, learn the truth and spread the truth. That should be your motto.

2:42:09BubblemanYou nailed it, Todd. I mean, it's the same thing how bubble bags, you know, were created and helped popularize water hash throughout North America and around the world. It was a marketed product, but it was a marketed product that was an educational product that gave the end user more than they put into it. It gave them back more than they put into it, whether they were putting into it monetary or they were putting their time or their energy into it or they were putting all three of those things into it, they were still getting more back in return.

2:42:41BubblemanAnd for me, what I was getting out of it was that the world, my whole trip was that when I bump into people, I want them to be able to pull out a piece of hash and say, hey, want to smoke some beautiful hash? Rather than me be like, don't even pull your hash out. I'll just pull mine out right now because we both know we're going to be smoking my hash when we both show each other.

2:43:00BubblemanAnd that's how it was in the beginning. Like, man, I had those bags. I was making fire hash. Most people had sift that was 20% gland heads back 15, 16, 17 years ago, before that, before I even had access, when I first saw Sam's hash, that blew the top of my head right off. I could not believe that a hash could, it made no sense. There was no, that wasn't in the Emperor.

2:43:26BubblemanNo one was talking about that anywhere. Like that shit was from another planet and it really helped inspire me To get to that level where we can produce a purity where the quality is truly unveiled by allowing purity to take its place.

2:43:46AdamWell, and even going back to the main point of just what social media did for all this, like without social media, without, you know, Mark's videos and without Todd's, you know, Culture High projects and things like that and, you know, just Even all the forums like ICMAG and all those things where we could all read and just try and learn as much as we could. That's the generation that I came up from.

2:44:11AdamI'm not from the generation of books necessarily as far as our main modes of information and getting the things we need to. To succeed really, like without any of that stuff, I wouldn't have personally, like I'm not a guy that goes and reads books. Like I'm not, that's just not the way that I choose to do it. I'll just try and sift through, which maybe does take longer, but I'll try and sift through all the crap that's on the internet and try and find, you know, other, I guess, modes of finding the information.

2:44:43AdamSo without any of you guys, like there would be no... At least my generation, for the most part, I would say, that's how we're finding our info. So all those things really did help. And I'm very appreciative of you guys putting your necks out there in a time that it wasn't maybe so cool to do that.

2:45:01SpeakerI want to say thank you because, you know, as someone who, I used to go to book shows and we used to tour with Jack and represent the emperor. And it was so hard to get people to sit down and read this whole book. It would take months to get a response in some cases. For them to have the epiphany that while cannabis is not a bad thing and it's historically useful.

2:45:19SpeakerAnd when I got out of prison, I swear I dreamed up the guys that made the union. Because if it wasn't for Adam and what they did, it really would never have happened. But I realized we needed a film. We needed to be able to communicate this using a couple hours of a person's time instead of months. To get a response because this was an important subject and we needed a response like now, not months from now.

2:45:48SpeakerAnd I'm really, it's really great to hear you say that because it took a lot of work, a lot of time to do these projects and the reason I do Hash Stretch now is because I have this little faint idea that it may communicate good ideas to people and that may help them spread these good ideas into the industry around them, into the community around them and it'll all foster growth.

2:46:08AdamWell, to be honest, we need those types of media because there's people not from my generation necessarily that also are more, I guess, they still have a stigma about what cannabis is. Their parents were still the ones that told them, oh, this is bad, it's going to, you know, you're going to kill your friends or whatever if you use this and all this crap that's really out there.

2:46:30AdamAnd, like, without those kind of videos to just sit someone down that maybe is from, you know, The, you know, earlier, like my grandparents, for instance, they can't, they wouldn't be able to deal with something like that without seeing a film that was, you know, more, it was a higher budget type of thing. It wasn't just like a cheap little indie, just, you know, and not that those aren't, not that those aren't things that are valuable as well to the community, but it's easier to, it's easier to show somebody in a bigger budget, I guess, type of experiment.

2:47:04SpeakerBecause that's kind of what it was, I guess. You know what it was? At the time, Brett Harvey went on to become an incredible filmmaker. He's made other films. And I've liked all of them. But the truth was is putting a professional face on this has been the goal of many of us for quite a while. And it has such a deep history in the cultural evolution of humanity.

2:47:25SpeakerAnd people joke about marijuana, and they talk down about marijuana, and they think it's just easy to be bigots about people that are dopers and whatever. But truthfully, there's probably no single plant that's played a more pivotal role in the cultural and human evolution Thank you so much for joining us.

2:47:51DuchessI totally agree. Whenever I tell people why I made this move out here to California just two years ago, being in South Beach, which was absolutely fantastic, but definitely didn't have enough cannabis, it was partially because I had the support of my mom. Even though I was in my 30s, but it was definitely good to have the support of my mom who had seen the Sanjay Gupta special.

2:48:16DuchessSo Sanjay Gupta in a way normalized for so much of mainstream America. It was like no matter what was said by people who had been in the industry for a very long time, had been quote unquote doctors, real doctors, people who had Thank you for joining us today.

2:48:57DuchessThank you so much.

2:49:07SpeakerYeah, it's becoming very fashionable to tell the truth and talk about cannabis because even look at Trump today. This is why he came up. They're all realizing if you talk about cannabis, a lot of people support the subject. And now that we're getting that voice, it's changing the whole situation. I hope more and more people get involved in actually trying to educate the people around them because that's really what we need to have happen.

2:49:33SpeakerI think also media can help spread old knowledge. I mean, if you look at the book I'm holding, this was published in 1904 in Calcutta. And it's called The Morphology, Tetritology, and the Kleinism of Flowers of Cannabis. And then if you turn inside, it's got drawings by Major Prane, the author, on every different abnormal sexual... variety that there is. They already knew about Sensimia. They already knew about everything.

2:50:15SpeakerAnd yeah, if we could just remember everything that we've forgotten, that would be a major step forward.

2:50:24BubblemanThat's awesome. Of course you have that document. It's just like, let me just pull this document out from 1865.

2:50:32SpeakerI've also got, no, this is from 1904. Oh, of course. 1894 was the Indian Hemp Commission Report. I've also got a bunch of original copies of that, and that is more, full of more information about marijuana and hashish than any other ancient document that I'm aware of. It's amazing.

2:50:53BubblemanWell, we've got to get that printed up or posted up on HashChurch.

2:50:57SpeakerIt is, it's too long. It's, I think, nine volumes, each one like 400 pages.

2:51:06Etienne FontanAwesome. I'd love to have a friend of mine, his name's John Lupien. He's a researcher who took Jack's book back 20 plus years ago and actually took the references and researched them and went to 50 plus research facilities around the United States gathering and Doing the good work.

2:51:53Etienne FontanYeah, for the good of all, because, you know, Jack started and planted the seed for all of us, which of course pretty much spawned everybody on the panel here. And so, you know, we have to take that, you know, a step further, you know, so that we can educate further. I credit Todd greatly with the movies to enter the knowledge into, you know, newer generations that would have never had access to the book because it's out there, but it's not in the ether of circulation that, you know, the movie has, that it's now on, what, it's on Netflix in, what, 70 plus countries, both movies, Todd?

2:52:31SpeakerNo, just the culture high. It's in 15 languages now in 70 countries because of the work of Adam and Brett. You know, and this is the goal to think that people are all over the world learning this and absorbing this information. And, you know, that's really my whole goal. I mean, really. I guess it was to get out of kinkos and to be able to sit home and still have an impact on society.

2:52:54SpeakerAnd if you put next to that that in this industry there is more misinformation than in all the industry put together, it's really a weird balance.

2:53:11SpeakerAre there disinformation against disinformation? There is so much disinformation about everything, processes, histories. There is There is not one place, like a data bank, that you can trust and rely on. As a church, for somebody like me, it's hard. I cannot watch it because I'm not somebody here. I need to read. And I don't have a place where I can trust what I read. I need to research.

2:53:42SpeakerI need to question everything because there is so much misinformation, and especially the media and magazines.

2:53:50BubblemanRight. Well, that's why, you know, you try to pick the best folks out of the industry. I mean, it's why earlier when you were talking about your theory of cannabinoid increase through decarboxylation, you were guessing that that was happening, but Sam was mentioning that he actually had shown that testing those products showed no higher cannabinoid content through decarboxylation prior to the inhalation. So it's like These are ways to do that research and Hash Church is a great way to sort of link people up with being able to find, take notes and find a place to start Because you know, you don't want to take anything we say just at heart.

2:54:33BubblemanYou want to take things that we say and people agree with them and they disagree with them. But I'll tell you, it definitely lights a fire under their ass and they go and they research and they find things out. Because often they'll be in the chat room the next week bringing up something from last week. Because by all means, like Sam says, it's not like we're experts.

2:54:50BubblemanWe just have knowledge in different fields. We all have Thank you for joining us.

2:55:17BubblemanI wasn't doing it completely correctly, and I was definitely making some key mistakes that I'm very, very, very glad I was able to learn years later and fix.

2:55:29SpeakerAs little as a generation ago, everybody thought that cannabis first produced CBD, and then THC was biosynthesized from the plant from CBD. Then we eventually found out it was in fact CBG that this happens with. Right.

2:55:47BubblemanAnd I'm sure we'll find out more things in the upcoming five to ten years, you know, with programs like the genome, the genetic sequencing of cannabis, and all these different unique programs that are happening, or scientific papers that are being written. The knowledge is just coming. How often do you get a new paper on cannabis being written, Sam?

2:56:12SpeakerI get one pretty much every day. One of the latest ones I got in the last few days was the one written by Dr. DeMeyer where he explains the inheritance of the propyl homologs. In other words, THCV, CBDV, CBCV, and he explains how they're inherited and it's quite a brilliant little paper if I do say so myself.

2:56:40BubblemanYeah, you were saying that the other day. That's another good one to check out. It's always good if we can get these papers linked, at least if we're talking about them, if they're available. It's always a great idea to get them linked into the hashtag so people can come check them out.

2:56:53SpeakerThey're available. I'll put it up on hashtag.

2:56:56BubblemanYeah, that way people listening can go check out his latest paper. Tony's at 30-something. He says he's very high. His eyes are almost closed. He's...

2:57:09TonyI just wanted to add one thing to what you guys were saying on the marketing side on a little more because that was a really good macro. But I think that like what's happening is that even though rosin and that kind of stuff is gaining some popularity, it's still not very popular even in California. And if you look at the panel, each one of us is doing something really unique with resin, you know.

2:57:35TonyAnd Barone is doing something, Bubble Man and I are doing something and Thank you so much for joining us.

2:58:05TonyThose brands represent a certain style of the resonance being presented. They're going to have to help unite and push the information education along because, you know, I talk to people and they still, you know, I would say they're still 60, 70% that are still into solvent-based products. So it's not like that. For me, I don't see it as that big of a thing yet, you know. So if you were talking about marketing, it's still got a long ways to go and I think The individuals that specialize in products will be the ones that kind of push that education along and awareness.

2:58:42SpeakerHow many of us are so tired of hearing that marketing because the people that called water hash solventless and ignored the facts that water is solvent were marketing their shit against BHO because people call all the hash the way they make it. It's dry sieve. It's butane hash oil. It is. Propane hash oil. It is CO2, except when we get to water hash and all these people try to say, solventless.

2:59:07SpeakerAnd it's baloney. Water is a great solvent. I use it every day in the shower. A little soap, it does wonders. Let's face it.

2:59:15TonyYeah, I'm sorry, but we're not talking about just water hash. We're talking about rosin. Look what Chris did. He just pressed out a pound.

2:59:23SpeakerThat's less. But that's the reality. Now that Rosin's on the scene like it is, if you're not pressing it or you're not shaking it, I'm sorry, it's solvent. It's not ice water extraction. It's ice water sieving. There is no need to say solvent-less because it confuses people. We do not extract, we sieve. Extracting, it's taking the resin from the membrane. That's extracting. So it's like we don't have a common vocabulary.

2:59:58SpeakerHow do you call loose resin?

3:00:02AdamI think that's a major thing is we have to really work on the vocab, and we also need to work on just like the full, Thank you for watching.

3:00:31AdamIs it pressed?

3:00:32SpeakerIs it... Dare I say something? Dare it would be the Otis is on the consumer because when you walk into a supermarket, you know the difference between red wine, white wine, shitty red wine, good red wine.

3:00:44BubblemanOr organic or non-organic. You know, when you go to a supermarket, you have organic and non-organic. And I think to just defend nicotine, which is hilarious... I think he was coming at a place where it was all oil, it was all BHO, 90% of it, maybe some people were making PHO and some other things, but most of what he was seeing was this oil and he was like, I want to make a water hash version of like oil, I want to make a dabble product.

3:01:12BubblemanHe just called it solventless and I know that Frenchy might think that that confused people, but people were confused when he started selling that product and they weren't sure that it was actually made with an oil because of the way it looks or made with a chemical solvent. And most people aren't concerned whatsoever, but there are some people who go to the grocery store and they want to purchase organic food and maybe solventless wasn't the best name.

3:01:36BubblemanBut it kind of ensued, the term basically was that there would be no chemical solvents used.

3:01:44SpeakerBut the thing is, is now people that make chemical solvents call it solventless when it's just because they purged it.

3:01:51BubblemanOf course, but people will bastardize anything regardless of what we call things or what we don't call them.

3:01:59TonyThat's actually supposed to be solvent-free, would be the term for that, not solventless. I would agree with Tony, but I've seen it, but I've seen them as normal, cleanly all the time.

3:02:08SpeakerThat's why it's so important to create a community.

3:02:13TonyI guess what I was talking about was what the original question was, was the difference between hash and... And rosin or oil. So that's really it. We're talking about hashish or we're talking about oil, you know? And so, Ross...

3:02:27SpeakerHere, because old hashish was made with sieving first, and then it was pressed. It's sieved and pressed, hashish.

3:02:34BubblemanBefore hashish was made from sieved, it was made from collecting on the fingers, I would guarantee. I think you're right.

3:02:41SpeakerAll right, all right. I'm going to go with what Mark said. But then second would have been sieved. Look, we don't know because... No, no, you said it earlier. It's fingers.

3:02:51TonyNo, what we're talking about is the definition of hashish. First the definition of a, if you don't want to call it solventless, you got to pick another name because it's coming from flowers or it's coming from hash and there's no more cellulose. So the distinction between hashish and a hash oil, right, is what we were talking about earlier and she was talking about marketing and that's where the confusion comes, what needs to be separated and those brands will have to Come forward like Baroni has a very specific way or what we're doing is specific or what Frenchie's doing is very specific.

3:03:31TonyAnd so those brands are going to come forward and say, okay, this is how this is done. You know, and that's, I think, going to be what's going to change the consumers.

3:03:40SpeakerBut in some cases, those things will be secretive. Like, that will be things that will, like, not necessarily be privy to everybody or you might want to know. But, like, you know, it's like, who knows exactly how he or she makes or does, like, the process. And there might be things that we don't even... Some people won't even... Thank you for watching.

3:04:19SpeakerBrand penetration, you sell products that aren't cannabinoid rich and how do you brand terpenes if it's cannabis related but not cannabis and it's like that in itself, that's a challenge. You've got other people now coming out with like essentially selling terpene blends and doing stuff like that and how does that relate to the industry and how does that run parallel to like someone like In your other side, you're running and actually making hash.

3:04:46SpeakerI'm making hash. Where's that distinction? How do you brand something that's a legal product in every state across lines? How do you deal with that and its incorporation into products in different states? Someone's buying the terpenes and maybe bringing that pound of outdoor that they had and bringing it to a higher level or they're You know, I don't know. You know, it's just kind of like, what are the uses, the branding tools, who's marketing to, stuff like that.

3:05:15SpeakerNot that I'm saying it because it's a demo. I'm not trying to, like, pin you and say that people are doing stuff with the turf. But it's just interesting. I mean, I noticed that you had some turfs for B and C grade turfs for sale. I'm curious what people, what do you do with, like, what are the intended uses for something like that?

3:05:33TonyWell, I just put the grades on there because I want... People don't understand where it comes from, so it's kind of like if you're capturing something from fruit or you're capturing something that has really nice shape and little tiny buds, that's really what the grade is for. It's not necessarily that bad, but I use them for, and I kind of put that on the blog too, but I use them inside the candles, which we are releasing, so that way the candles don't, yeah, he's got a candle, So if I had to do that from A grade, that candle would be astronomically priced.

3:06:11TonyLike, ridiculous. So I created a kind of food grade or C grade where we can use them in candles and use them more into like aromatherapy and with diffusers. It's still really good. The quality is really good. It may not have, let's say, instead of 13 terpene profiles, I'm going to get them, getting those tested now, I would imagine you might see More into four or three, you know, just because it didn't come from the A-grade flowers.

3:06:44TonyBut you could use them as a dilutant. There's nothing really wrong with them. You could dilute them in pens and stuff like that. I'm just trying to offer something that has every grade, you know, and just like in the wine industry, you have those different grades. Just like you would see someone that says, hey, we sell 50 million cases of this. And we sell only 10 million cases of this and we only sell 1,000 cases of that.

3:07:10TonyAnd it's the same thing with the grades, you know.

3:07:17TonyJust also a more affordable situation too.

3:07:21BubblemanThat might have been an appropriate spot to yell bong rip, but I had my lips on my bong at the time, so sorry for really missing the cue there, everyone. I feel like I let the panel down. I think I'm going to quit Hash Church now and never do it again because I'm just such a failure at this whole thing.

3:07:34Etienne FontanOh, I'm just joking. All right, take a bog rip.

3:07:39BubblemanThat's not my style. Just wanted to check out the self-pity angle just for a second. It's really not a very good look.

3:07:47TonySo from what I gathered earlier, there was a very strong reaction, and maybe I'm just ripped, but the word solventless is something that you guys don't want it to be used at all over there in the friendship camp. Just so I'm clear.

3:08:00BubblemanWe're getting clear. We're getting clear.

3:08:05SpeakerThere is dry sieve. There is ice water sieve. Then there is extraction. There is rosine extraction, and there is extraction made with solvent. And it's all very different type of resin, different type of buzz, even if it came from the same trim. I say truth in packaging. Call it what it is.

3:08:26BubblemanI think it's semantics.

3:08:29SpeakerIt's not semantics. It's just not giving them a general turn mark that they can just blanket over stuff. It's call it what it is. Tell me what it is.

3:08:36BubblemanI always said the same thing for food. Why do we have to call organic food that isn't grown with anything special organic when really the food that's full of poison, chemical poison, should be Called chemical poison food, not organic food. Everyone would buy the food that didn't have the chemical poison sign over top of it. Holy shit. You'd have to be brain dead to go, these apples are so much cheaper.

3:09:02BubblemanI know they have plutonium in them, but my God, they're so cheap.

3:09:08Etienne FontanYeah, well, they suppress that information here in the United States. They want to just, you know, every type of labeling for GMOs and things like that.

3:09:16BubblemanYou remember it was a Canadian farmer who got sued by Monsanto? Yep. Because his corn got pollinated with their fucked up evil frankenseed beans. And basically they were like suing him for producing their seed on his land when their pollen flew from a mile away and landed on his field and pollinated his corn to produce their seed. That's fucked up. That's why you really shouldn't, that's the dangerous game on allowing people to own seed rights.

3:09:47BubblemanIt's a scary game.

3:09:52BubblemanHey, Mr. Brett in the house looking pretty stylish with the shades on and the pipe in the mouth.

3:09:57SpeakerHey, guys. I've been listening all morning, driving around. It's been a great episode so far. One of my favorite for sure. Nice to see the whole panel.

3:10:07BubblemanYeah, nice little panel on here. It's been a pretty good conversation talking about You know, a lot of what we've been talking about for the last 15 or 20 minutes is really just semantics, you know, the names, the solventless or the non-solventless. I think Todd pretty much nailed it. Call it what it is. If it was made with butane, put that on the packaging. If it was made with water, put that on the packaging.

3:10:28BubblemanIf it was dry-sifted mechanical, put it on the package. If it was whole plant, fresh frozen, throw that on there too. Why not? It seems like the way Chimera mentioned it, You know, soon the names of these cultivars will truly be a list of compounds or constituents that make up that product. That's what a real name will be in the future. We'll find out exactly, just like what Todd said, what is it?

3:10:56BubblemanOh, it's a sour diesel. No, what is it? Well, it's a ratio of THC versus CBD, a few other cannabinoids for good measure, and then there's a lot of myrcene and terpenylene and You know, those are the constituents that make up that product. Those should be the things that we associate with the names. And the more we get tested and the more we open ourselves to this information, the more we'll understand it.

3:11:20SpeakerYeah, 100. I heard Adam talk a little bit about the star rating and then it seemed to cut out my card there. I just wanted to ask the panel, has anybody seen a six star hash that leaves no residue at all?

3:11:35SpeakerBecause I've never seen it.

3:11:36AdamLike nothing, like a clean nail.

3:11:38SpeakerAnd we've been trying, right? Like we've been trying our hardest and it just doesn't seem to happen.

3:11:44DuchessNo, I've seen one. I've seen something definitely for sure, for sure.

3:11:48SpeakerWas it made with, was it dry sift or was it bubble hash?

3:11:52DuchessOh, it was Emerald Alchemy's Purple Princess. It was full spectrum. She'd been working with the strain for the last two years. She makes it by hand and definitely every single time, even hitting it too high. I mean, there's just nothing there.

3:12:08BubblemanHere's something you have to do, Sheila, because it's never been shown online. No one's ever shown a video of a dab being taken with nothing being left behind. So if it happens every time, I'd love for you to make a video, a little video.

3:12:22AdamYeah, can you get that stuff?

3:12:24BubblemanBecause I've seen damn near nothing, but I've never seen nothing. The only thing I saw leave nothing was a pure terpene rip that I did with Brett when we did our little terpene gauntlet. And sometimes, even the terpene left a tiny little bit of breath.

3:12:40DuchessOkay, challenge accepted.

3:12:43AdamIt's not like a call-out or anything. We just want to see it, honestly. No, no.

3:12:46BubblemanI'll post it on my video. It's definitely not a call-out. I believe her 100%. She can come on and talk. I just want to see it.

3:12:52DuchessChallenge accepted. Challenge accepted.

3:12:54SpeakerRealize, guys, that your main conversation about quality is focused only about the melt and how much is left after smoking. Yes.

3:13:07BubblemanWe did come up in that. But keep in mind, Frenchy, we come from a place where we smoked third world import hash, and one day this water hash showed up that was so incredibly different we had to name it something different because it wasn't. What we called hashish because that was so contaminated with product that wasn't glandular resin heads that when we finally got to this point and nobody could deny the powerful difference between smoking some Moroccan and then taking like a full melt dab of like some 90 micron or some of Skunk Man Sam's Dry Sift, it was almost a religious, definitely a spiritual experience for most people who experienced Thank you so much for joining us.

3:14:11SpeakerYeah, we just came up in that as well. I mean, for us anyways, ours has seemed to taste better and get better as the milk got better. I have yet to, you know, there's definitely some strains that leave a bigger residue that have such a great flavor, but for sure it still melts pretty good. It's not like an import that you can burn. But I've definitely tried your style of pressing my full melt out, leaving it for a couple days or a week or so and then coming back and then expressing different flavors that I've loved.

3:14:44SpeakerI've pressed full melt that I didn't like at first, a week later I loved. So I completely agree with you for sure. But the melt factor still is... You didn't get my meaning. It's like the melt is very important. It's how much resin is formed inside the resin head. But we don't really have a scoring system that takes into account the degustation, the actual experience of smoking.

3:15:10SpeakerAll that take into action how much cannabinoid is actually inside that melt, how wide the spectrum of cannabinoid, how much terpene there is. You count only the melt, and there is so much more to quality than the melt.

3:15:29BubblemanMost people don't have a gas chromatograph to test for those things, so you can talk about them, but you'll just be guessing. Whereas the melt factor is something that you can see and 100% know without a machine that it's like a five or a six star melt. Whereas terpene content, phytocannabinoid content, the amount of cannabinoids that you're actually saturating into your system while inhaling through whatever the relationship Thank you for joining us.

3:16:09DuchessI love nectarines that are hard. I love nectarines that are soft.

3:16:32DuchessYeah, and we're... Oh, I totally agree with that. I'm not saying that there's actually a judgment to make on either side. I'm saying that you do have the ability to decide, and as you like, make your options, whether you're going to have the hard nectarine or the soft, but it's not that science is... Giving you this like complete insight. At the very least, this is an experience that you're having.

3:16:57DuchessSo your own body is telling you whether you like it or not. You don't need science to like decide whether it has enough of cannabinoids for you.

3:17:06BubblemanYou need science to know, what Frenchie was mentioning, what terpene profile is in there, what cannabinoids are in there, and what ratio.

3:17:14DuchessExactly number, sure, yes.

3:17:17SpeakerThat's why you have science. You have science, and then the degustation part. How does it smell before you smoke? How does it affect your mouth? How intense it is? How long it stay in your mouth. How unique it is. All this is quality for me. It should be part of a scoring system so that since you cannot see and touch the ash you're buying, you need to find a lot of dimension of what is quality.

3:17:48SpeakerFor the people to have an idea of why that ash is priced that way. And if you could give a description of how it will taste also, it would be super nice. So that A person can not only appreciate the milk, but you make him think about the experience of it. Some things that we forget because we smoke so much every day. Most of the time we forget to appreciate every dimension of what makes it so incredible.

3:18:21SpeakerAnd this is part of what a scoring system should be because it's teaching.

3:18:26BubblemanWell, you should create that scoring system. Create the Frenchy Cannoli scoring system that's based on that very thing, and we'll all get right behind it.

3:18:35SpeakerI wrote an article in Weird World about it, and it's on my website. It's like I like people to make it better because I'm just narrow-minded because it's me and my education and my culture and my experience. But It's something we need because we are going into legality. We need a common language. How do we call loose resin head? If ashish is pressed resin, how do we call loose resin head?

3:19:06SpeakerKeef, ice wax, beach sand, grease. There are so many names, but we are becoming legal. It's going to be a worldwide market. We need to put our shit together. Excuse my English.

3:19:22DablogicWell, I think that's part of the branding, too.

3:19:26DablogicYou have to make a name for yourself to... To brand your own product and to kind of call your product something, to separate it from what other people have, you know? I mean, ice wax or solventless wax or any of those things, that was all, wax was a craze, wax was a thing, you know? What we were saying earlier, the difference between hash and oil, there really isn't a difference.

3:19:53DablogicPure hash is oil. It will be an oil. Pure hash will melt to an oil. So, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure, pure.

3:20:23BubblemanThere's definitely that fibrous mat where the cannabinoids are biosynthesized in the upper cuticle of the trichome head. There's the wax membrane. There are things that are present in the hash that are not present in the oil. From that perspective alone, I think they're different.

3:20:42AdamWhat's funny is we actually started trying to make full melt with a full spectrum of We only recently, within the last six to eight months, have switched over to using all of the bags to try and separate things out. And just personally, I would say that we both and the people we deal with are definitely finding they want a separated spectrum. So it's definitely, I think it's about where you live.

3:21:11AdamI think it's about the cultivars you're using. I think it's about the marketing as well. You know, obviously if you are marketing one thing, that is who is going to come towards you, right? So it's hard to say if you want to offer both products, you should do that. If you want to offer one or the other, you should do that as well and try and make a niche in what you're doing.

3:21:29AdamBut also with the melt itself, for us at least, we look at it as how much, how well of a job did the grower do? If it melts all the way and there's nothing left, Or close to nothing. It's hard to say anything about that. However, obviously when you press your hash out and you do all these other things to it, you can obviously bring out other flavors and other effects as well.

3:21:57AdamSo it's really just a It's all so subjective.

3:21:59SpeakerAnd we also come from the school of Mark Bubbleman telling us, you know, we're just really unveiling. You can only be so proud of what you do until you go to the grower and say, you know, you did the great job. I just did what I do every single day and it turned out better than it normally does. And I mean, yeah, that's where we come from.

3:22:18BubblemanYeah, shout out to the grower always for sure. And you know what, I guess when it comes to these ratings and such, When the Bizarre Brothers and Jeff Church kind of came up with the star rating, they did it because people were selling non-melty bubble hash as melty bubble hash. So they didn't create it really as a marketing ploy as much as just to try and unconfuse some people who weren't familiar with what...

3:22:41BubblemanWhen you've never seen melty hash and you see something that sizzles, like almost looks like it just has water coming out the top of it, you think that's melty hash. And then the next time when you see something that Thank you for watching.

3:23:17BubblemanThe ripeness of the gland and when you can separate it out and isolate it out to the way that you like it, it's revelatory.

3:23:26SpeakerYeah, and that's why I love the star rating system. I just don't love that a lot of people tag six star and six star says there's no residue and there always seems to be residue left. So, you know, that's why you see me and Adam say five star a lot of the times unless it's so exceptional that we'll, and we always say it leaves residue. We're never ones to say there's nothing left.

3:23:47SpeakerAll of our hash seems to leave a very, very minimal amount of residue.

3:23:51AdamBut there's still something.

3:23:52SpeakerYeah, there's still something. And also the star rating is good because if I went to send my mother to buy, you know, a gram of full melt at a dispensary, you know, they have things that are labeled full melt that are very, you know, like 40% melt. So she could figure that out very quickly by, you know, hitting it with a hemp wick and seeing how good that melt is.

3:24:12SpeakerSo I just like it because it's easy to educate. It's a basis. But I understand what you're saying, Frenchie, in terms of, you know, it's so much more complex than just the melt, for sure.

3:24:24DuchessThere's a problem, though, when if there's no standard datum line for where we consider the star system, what you consider four star, someone else might consider five star, and therefore there is no education. So until there is an actual standard that we all...

3:24:42SpeakerThere is guidelines that we've read.

3:24:45BubblemanKeep in mind who came up with the star rating, okay? The people who came up with it, Jeff Church, Bizarre Brothers, they've been making water hash for almost as long as anyone's been making water hash for. They started in the late 90s. Jeff was one of the first bubble ambassadors. He was a glass blower that Marble Slinger introduced me to. He brought bubble bags to California 30, 40 kits at a time.

3:25:07BubblemanHe would put it on his mom's visa and buy in the 90s. He would buy these bags. And he had access, I'll say this much, if you knew him from Overgrow or ICMAG, he always posted the utmost incredible quality. It was always full mouth, super crazy colors, just unbelievable. He really was one of the keys to the business being successful because it wasn't people who were taking subpar material and making subpar hash.

3:25:36BubblemanThat were popularizing water hash. Those people were not popularizing water hash. It was people who had access to incredible genetics and growers who would like run that shit through the bags and then be like, oh my god, I didn't realize, but I just made the holy grail of hash. And the Bizarre Brothers, I mean, it's, you know, there's a reason why the Bizarre Brothers washed for the Bubble Man brand down in California.

3:26:01BubblemanThey are bubble ambassadors. These guys do Thank you for watching.

3:26:15BubblemanYeah.

3:26:16DuchessI've definitely had their hash and I ask them all the time how do they make this relatively like small batch quality doing such huge numbers and stuff like that. So are you saying there's a chart? Am I missing out? Have I been missing out on the chart?

3:26:32BubblemanWell, I don't think you're missing out so much but it's, you know, it's for people that don't know that much about it, that haven't seen all the, you know, it's not until you see a 6, a 5, a 4, a 3, a 2, and a 1 that you'll know. You can't just see a 3 star. And then guess what a 2 and a 1 and a 4 and a 5 and a 6 are going to be.

3:26:49BubblemanYou really have to experience them all. I never personally came up with the star rating and I've been making bubble hash as long as anyone. But I do kind of stand behind their star rating in the sense that it just gives people kind of like what Todd was saying, even though it is an opinion, but it's the opinion of what I would call the water hash community's peers.

3:27:09BubblemanThese are ambassadors. These are the people who have been doing it almost as long as you could possibly be doing it. And I sort of stand behind the knowledge that they've learned. They've taken the right path. You can tell when you smoke their final product, when you smoke their hash. That they are aware of what they're doing.

3:27:28SpeakerYeah, I totally agree. One thing that does need to be done is that if you're going to have a five, six star system, you need a constant way of consuming it. In other words, a nail at a certain temperature or whatever so that that isn't a variable. Of course. Of course, and for us, we do only make rosin out of our hash. So that has taught us a lot and made me respect the star system more because that just validates it as well.

3:27:59SpeakerYou know, how much rosin you get back. Obviously, it's strain dependent, but that will teach you a lot about the star system. Plus, you can just smoke it before you rosin it and quickly understand, like, yeah, that's got half the oil in it. It doesn't taste as great. I was smoking on the, you know, same nail, the same temp. It took, you know... Five times longer to melt.

3:28:19SpeakerAnd then it becomes just such a more enjoyable product as a rosin. It definitely validates the star system for me. Have you guys looked at the terpene profile before and after that to look at what the rosin process is doing on that? We personally haven't, but I was privy enough to see Tony's, some of Tony's results, and he was talking exactly about that. So I'm sure he would touch on that a little bit.

3:28:47TonyI'm trying to see if they're public on SC Labs. I tested the full melt and then we tested the rosin directly from the full melt. So both of those are side by side.

3:28:59SpeakerSo what would you see the differences in, Tony? Are you seeing levels of certain terpenes change between one and the other?

3:29:07TonyYeah, so what happens, let's say you start with 10 different profiles that are pinged in the full melt and you have like a 4% In the full melt in the terpene, so I think that's what it was like 4.5, and so you increase the THC, and instead of having 4% of say 10 terpenes, you get 7% plus of 3 terpenes.

3:29:33SpeakerSo which terpenes do you see the biggest changes in?

3:29:35TonyYeah, let's see if I can pull it up. Let me see if I can pull this up.

3:29:38SpeakerCool.

3:29:42TonyThis is 30 something dabs in, so.

3:29:45SpeakerDid you stop? You've been 30 little dabs in for a while. That's so respectable, Tony. I actually thought last night, I was like, should I roll up 90 little dabs and then just dip them in turps and do it? And I was like, that would be very excessive, so I really appreciate you doing it. And I'm going to just try and catch up. I'm on third, and you're at 30, so.

3:30:06BubblemanListen, I did 18 dabs with D420K when we did the gauntlet, the terpene gauntlet, but we were dipping rosin dabs into terpenes for our gauntlet, unlike the one I did with Brett, which was just pure terpenes, and we did a dozen different kinds. 18 rips between the two of us took us 50 minutes, and that was like one of us taking a dab every two minutes. And it just annihilated and destroyed us.

3:30:29BubblemanI'll tell you one thing. You definitely are not getting the subtle nuances that Frenchy's talking about in his rating system when you're dabbing 18 dabs in an hour. There's definitely like better to probably take one nice big rip or a big real nice smoky. I mean there's another thing I would ask Frenchy. Do you prefer, I mean I'm sure you have a variety of preference, but obviously you must smoke chillums having spent time in India.

3:30:56BubblemanAnd the Chillum hit is unlike really any other hit. It's got this, you know, often it's mixed with tobacco, which gives you this real kind of spacey buzz, kind of zings you right up there, and then you kind of float on the hash high that you have. I'm not a real big tobacco proponent, but when in Rome, I felt like when I was in the Maha Kumbh Mela in Haridwar at the banks of the Ganges smoking with the babas that I had met, Due to them smelling our Nepali finger hash that we had smuggled into the country.

3:31:24BubblemanWe had a very good relationship with these guys. They love to smoke the hash. Do you prefer a big blast and then to enjoy these feelings or do you just take regular old size hits and then enjoy your feelings?

3:31:40SpeakerI like to eat hash already. Most time I eat some hash in the morning with my coffee. And then I just like to be in that comfort, cozy feeling that ash gives me. And for me, smoking ash, it's really the senses. It's the taste, the degustation part of it. That's why I really totally agree with... We need a scoring system that is really developed because the quality of everything is so much higher than in history where they didn't use a star system but they used grades, first grade, second grade, third grade, that where you could really, the difference was obvious.

3:32:34SpeakerThere is so much diversity in quality to a certain level that we need a scoring system that expresses everything of that experience. It's beyond what history teaches us quality was. It's coming into another kingdom of quality, if I may say so.

3:33:03BubblemanBeautiful. Well, we've got a nice full group. Johnny B just popped in. How's it going, Johnny B, with the 90 micron shirt?

3:33:08Speaker90 micron, of course, and the hash. I had to make some, and you know what? I'm going to... I just made some hash, and it was some weed that's been in the freezer since 2015, almost a year. And let me tell you, the difference between making hash that's been... I mean, weed that's been in the freezer for like a week or a year is really... Thanks for watching.

3:33:49SpeakerAnd that's one thing I found. I mean, of course, making hash since, of course, Mark showed me a better way of making it was just being more thorough with it. And I make so much of it, and I'm just seeing a difference from when I leave it in the freezer for longer. And I'm just finding it's just tastier, and it hits me better. It's going to be a difference in the conversion or something, but it's...

3:34:13SpeakerIt's maybe less water in the fresh frozen because this is fresh weed that I'm putting in the freezer of course. So over time the freezer is getting rid of a lot of the moisture so I'm getting, yeah I don't know it's definitely different. Yeah I don't know personally we've found the quicker we've run it the better it tastes. For our situation, I don't know if that's the way we're storing it versus the way you're storing it, how cold your freezer is versus how cold ours is, strain dependent, of course.

3:34:49BubblemanAre you testing both, Brad? Are you actually allowing some to cure out? We talked about the terpene sort of earlier in the sense that when you do a fresh frozen or when you Thank you so much for joining us.

3:35:30BubblemanYou definitely get a lot less whiting out as well without even the use of a freeze dryer when you use material that's been, I wouldn't say completely dry, but maybe just like somewhat cured before processing. Because a lot of people are just processing... Fresh frozen material these days.

3:35:46SpeakerYeah, for us, we usually just process fresh frozen because every time we do process dry or did, we just find it better as frozen. For us, there was just no denying and that could just be the process, the area we had to dry, the cold room we had to dry, which me and Adam would seem to think that would be a big reason. But yeah, so for us, we just haven't had as enjoyable hash made from dry material.

3:36:17SpeakerLike I have yet, you know, I would love to try it. You know, I'm definitely not opposed to smoking good hash. I love smoking good hash. I go buy good hash at a dispensary. But I've yet to see anything that's full melt, that's not fresh frozen, you know.

3:36:35BubblemanThe first real, real, real full melt I ever made, well, it was shish keberry. It was definitely bone dry material. All of the material I used back in the day was bone dry. But the first stuff that blew me away for taste and smell was the Rene. And the Rene was, I remember it was swept up. My buddy brought me to his show. It was like a 50 lighter, which back then in the 90s it was pretty big.

3:36:58Bubbleman50 lights was pretty impressive for a grow. And he had all this stuff sort of. It was on the ground. It was like trim and popcorn bud and then there was actually towards the edge of it, it looked like dust but it was like sift. So I got down on my hands and knees and I had a little pack of rolling papers on me that I opened up and I kind of scooped a little bit of this sift from the top that was the cleanest I could find in the pile on the ground and I put it in a rolling paper and I brought it home and I smoked it and First of all, it smelled so fruity and incredible, but when you burned it, it created this flavor profile that was super hazy, super terpeneol, like just unbelievable exotic spice in the air.

3:37:44BubblemanAnd the first time I made bubble hash from it was no different. It came out like stained glass window. It's what popularized bubble bags as much as guys like Jeff Church and the Bizarre Brothers and other people being ambassadors. I'm not sure it would have ever been quite as popular without the photography behind it because back then on Overgrow it was, you could tell stories all you wanted but mostly with the advent of the internet and digital cameras people wanted proof.

3:38:11BubblemanThey wanted to see what you were saying. Not only could it be replicated but you could show us what you were making and that changed the game for people building their own grows, processing their own hash, you know these little essays, photo essays that people would make.

3:38:25SpeakerIf I had to give my inspiration to one photo, it would be your photo of Skunk Man's dry sift on ICMEC. As soon as I seen that, I knew I was doing something wrong. I was like, oh my God.

3:38:37BubblemanI thought it was a game changer in a sense.

3:38:40SpeakerAnd I made melty dry sift before I ever made melty bubble. And by no means I tried making bubble before and I got discouraged and made Melody Dry Sift and then I went back to making bubble because it was just something you could obtain in quantity. It wasn't so time consuming and you could help more people doing it, I would say.

3:39:01BubblemanYeah, in a shorter period of time, I would agree with that.

3:39:05SpeakerOkay, so you know what, we haven't done a really good dab yet and this is some 90 that I was working on. It's like fire.

3:39:13BubblemanTony's done 36.

3:39:16SpeakerI even missed that. I didn't hear what you said. I was like, ah. I made this two days ago. I put it in the pizza box. I threw it in my other room. This is just fire. I can play with this now. I can pick it up. I can hold it in my hands. I mean, that's been in the freezer for a year before I actually made it.

3:39:42SpeakerAnd that's what I mean. If I made it with fresh, it would be a lot more gooier if I made it. I just see a little bit of a difference, and I'm quite happy, actually. I mean, it's just because I left it in there, right? Well, dab it up. Let's do a dab, guys.

3:39:56BubblemanDab it up. Down for a dab. Johnny B. inspired dab. What are you puffing on there, Dab Logic? Some ice oil from the lab?

3:40:12BubblemanBooyah! Booyah-ka!

3:40:16SpeakerWhat was it?

3:40:16BubblemanWhat am I talking about? Mine's not quite as yellow.

3:40:24SpeakerSo tasty. It's amazing.

3:40:29SpeakerAnd so smooth.

3:40:32BubblemanThat was awesome. Melts in your bowl, not in your hands.

3:40:39SpeakerBut there is some residue, of course. There's always residue. There's more, and then there's less. But there's never none. Never for us. That's more accurate.

3:41:02SpeakerJohnny, in your text to me, did you say that you tested... Different micron size for THC content and saw trends in size as opposed to THC content. Can you speak to that? Yeah, so, I mean, I have tested the Jamaican bubble, the 73-90-120, and I saw a difference in THC. Same profile. It always looked the same. But the THC levels were different and I was kind of looking for some more information on that.

3:41:32SpeakerI remember when I was working with Paul and stuff, we never tested different micron levels. We would just test hash. We weren't looking at that. I always made mention, talked about, I mean we get different hits from all the different levels. Like for me the 73 was always my goal and I would say it. And I see like... When I do testing, and I mean it's just the machine I'm working on and stuff like that, but I do see different cannabinoid levels.

3:41:58SpeakerSo that's the only difference, and I wanted to ask Sam about that and yourself. I mean have you tested it? Do you see the different levels of THC and cannabinoid, but the profiles are the same? You know what I'm talking about? Yes, I found the same thing. I found the same compound, just the ratios were slightly altered. Exactly. So I saw in the 73, 90, and 120, the 90 had more THC, but the 73 had more of all the cannabinoids itself, but a lesser THC than the 120.

3:42:33SpeakerDo you recall seeing that?

3:42:38SpeakerWell, I don't remember the exact details, and we were looking at primarily just THC and the terpenes because my varieties had practically nothing else, but they didn't have hardly any CBD or other cannabinoids. I mean, tiny, tiny, tiny amount of THC-B or CBD or something like that, but...

3:43:03BubblemanConsidering your perspective on CBD from the recreational standpoint, I'm not overly surprised that your strains weren't super high in CBD.

3:43:14SpeakerAre you trying to say that I think CBD is the devil?

3:43:18BubblemanI know you do.

3:43:23SpeakerOnly from a recreational point of view. From a medical point of view, it's been a savior. Speaking of a downer, right, Sam? I'm going to be like, hey guys, thank you. We had a great time doing this today. We are going to go eat food and do stuff.

3:43:41BubblemanEnjoy the rest of your day, gentlemen. You guys look like you're wearing the same shirts and stuff. You're almost like connected on the black couch.

3:43:50SpeakerI'm going to grow up to be more like Frenchie for sure. I like it.

3:43:53BubblemanWell, thanks for coming on and sharing your guys' perspective. We always appreciate it. Do you want to tell people where they can find you, Frenchie, and see your new rating system and whatnot?

3:44:05SpeakerMy website, FrenchieCanoli.com, and there you can get these links to all my articles and references and everything. Literally everything.

3:44:19BubblemanPerfect. We will direct people there. Of course, Todd can be found at HempXXX on Instagram, and he's got a variety of websites you can share if you like, Todd.

3:44:29SpeakerThanks, man. Well, love to y'all, and I hope y'all have a great day. Thank you so much, guys. Thanks, guys.

3:44:36BubblemanCheers. Well, we rocked out three hours and 45 minutes so far in the Hash Church 90 Micron episode. Lots of good conversation has happened. Maybe... Maybe Chimera's going to come join us for the last 10 or 15 minutes. Oh, no, Wook Sauce has made it in. Wook Sauce Winery. Talk about squeezing.

3:44:56SpeakerChimera's going to come join us for the last 10 or 15 minutes.

3:45:00BubblemanMute the YouTube so it's not coming through your camera and see if you can turn your camera on.

3:45:06Etienne FontanHey, I'm going to head out, too, because I'm actually joining them. We're all going to lunch. So I love you guys. Much love, and I shall see you all next week.

3:45:14BubblemanEnjoy. Etienne, thanks for sharing your time with us, buddy. We'll see you next week.

3:45:20SpeakerHey, how's it going, everybody?

3:45:21BubblemanFinally got to hop in. You got your camera working or is it not working?

3:45:25SpeakerYeah, no, I think the camera is just broken on this computer straight up.

3:45:30BubblemanWell, at least we can hear you, dude. I wanted to give you a little bit of a shout-out. I wanted to give everyone a shout-out. We're actually just at the end of the episode kind of shouting out where people can find us and whatnot. Of course... Dablogic can be found as Dablogic on Instagram. I don't think there's any dots or underscores. Is there Dablogic for you?

3:45:50DablogicSorry. No, no. It's just straight Dablogic on Instagram. You can also find us on Facebook under Dablogic with a space in between it.

3:46:02BubblemanExcellent. Well, you guys are definitely what I would call respectable bubble ambassadors doing good by the art form. It's nice to see people producing the good meds. In Colorado, I know the Meltz Trichome Heavy Extracts are out there doing it, and it's nice to see that there are other groups out there doing it as well.

3:46:20DablogicYeah, yeah. A lot of good hash starting to pick up in Colorado, and a lot of the different things are doing good, so...

3:46:28BubblemanWell, it's good to see. It's definitely, I'm always paying attention myself for my own brand where the fire's being produced.

3:46:36DablogicNo, absolutely. I know a lot of fire out in California as well.

3:46:43BubblemanYeah, well, I invited Full Flavor in today. He wasn't able to make it in, unfortunately. I invited Solventless Mind, who we'll have to have come in another day and talk about what he's been doing because he's been doing some inspirational things on Instagram. Wook Sauce, I just literally discovered on Instagram the other day when I posted who was making great hash on Instagram and a couple of people linked him up and he had some really nice photos going as well.

3:47:09BubblemanSo what is the Instagram exactly? Is it Wook Sauce Winery?

3:47:14SpeakerYep, just Wook Sauce Winery, all one word. And yeah, we just started up down in California, so that's why you haven't seen us before really.

3:47:23BubblemanAwesome. Well, it's nice to see. I love the new guys. I have a real affinity just meeting the West Coast Concentrate guys in the last year or so. They've only been making hash for, I think, maybe two years, which is incredible considering it goes to show you that you don't have to have 15 years background if you learn from the right sources and you use the right tools.

3:47:45BubblemanAnd most importantly, you have great growers. You can really turn out some incredible fire.

3:47:53SpeakerYeah, no, I'd agree. The quality that started coming out of my bags when I started putting my own material through there and stuff and doing the whole process top to bottom definitely made a big difference.

3:48:04BubblemanYeah, it's why Cuban shines himself. You know, if you can control the grow and the resin, you're in a much better situation than you will be if all you're doing is processing because at that point you just have to go through so many different people and you have to go and look and try and make sure that one person that may not have grown good enough material for you that you still give a chance next time around because they could hit that sweet spot next time and you don't want to miss out on processing that incredible resin.

3:48:32BubblemanHey, welcome Chimera.

3:48:36AdamHowdy.

3:48:37BubblemanGlad you made it in, dude, towards the end of the 90 Micron episode. Hope you have some 90 Micron hash to enjoy.

3:48:44SpeakerI do, actually, yeah. I have to roll over and get some more. I've got the 90 Micron bags hanging in the back.

3:48:55BubblemanOh, going for the big ins, too. I like that. Big ins. Setting it all up. He's like, oh, hash church, I better set up these 90 Micron bags. Tony, myself, and John were like, we better put these 90 micron shirts on for the episode.

3:49:10SpeakerYou know, we have to. Maybe it hasn't been given the proper props, but Bubble Bags has to have the props for this episode, you know? It does. 90 micron hash, 90 micron bag.

3:49:25BubblemanGive thanks, give thanks. I just can't ever really promote my own shit, you know?

3:49:32SpeakerDon't forget the 90 micron Sam I am.

3:49:36BubblemanI would not forget 90 micron Sam I am. He's had the same dumb look on his face all episode. It's like he knows something we don't know.

3:49:43SpeakerHe definitely does.

3:49:45BubblemanHe's smirking like a motherfucker.

3:49:47TonyHe thinks that 90 micron is the best. Well, he's obviously had 90 dabs. Look at him. Yeah.

3:49:57TonyThat's what I'm going to look like in another 41.

3:49:59SpeakerI mean... We also have to give good props to Sam in this paper that came out recently. This inheritance paper that he talked about is a major accomplishment as far as our understanding of the inheritance of chemical chemotype in cannabis, at least for the cannabinoids. And none of that work would have been possible without Sam's efforts. So...

3:50:24BubblemanYeah, was it all done with his varieties, I guess?

3:50:27SpeakerYep, everything.

3:50:28BubblemanFigured.

3:50:29SpeakerHis varieties, his breeding plan, his vision.

3:50:33BubblemanWhat's with writing papers and not, like, I don't know, maybe it's not a big deal, like maybe it's something that they don't do in the scientific world, but in the cannabis world, we like to give credit where credit is due. Wouldn't it be nice to see Sam's name on the paper, like, and all cultivars bred and produced by...

3:50:51SpeakerWell, yeah, the founder, the original collection that did all the work was created by Sam. And, you know, don't be mistaken, Sam's name is on many, many scientific papers all over the field.

3:51:09BubblemanJust not on that one.

3:51:11SpeakerWell, not on that one, but in the original ones in that series of papers, you know, and it's very clear anyway where the work came from, you know, I know... Sam's Codes for In-House Codes, and they explain the codes they use in the paper.

3:51:27BubblemanIt's usually clear where my photos came from, but I still like to get recognition just with a name. It's just like, just put my name on it if it's my photo. If it's Sam's work, put his name on it. It's an easy thing to do. If it couldn't have been done without him, too, it seems like a pretty valid... Valid name to put on the paper.

3:51:46SpeakerYeah, well, whether or not, I mean, just for the historical record, you know, we know.

3:51:50BubblemanWe know. And now 10,000 people know as well, or at least they will in the next seven days when they watch this show.

3:51:58TonyYou can't ever get an attaboy. Attaboy, Sim. Attaboy!

3:52:04SpeakerNonetheless, like an epic paper that really explains everything as far as How chemotype is inherited.

3:52:12BubblemanAnd that one's going to be posted in Hash Church. I think they're posting it in Hash Church group on Facebook.

3:52:18SpeakerCool. So if you're into that, check it out. It's a good read.

3:52:22BubblemanThat's Etienne DeMeyer.

3:52:24SpeakerEtienne DeMeyer from GW.

3:52:26BubblemanEtienne DeMeyer. Excellent. Well, he knows his shit.

3:52:32SpeakerYeah, I can't thank Sam enough. That one picture of the dry sift that you took basically changed my life.

3:52:40AdamYeah, it pretty much started us off.

3:52:42BubblemanYou know, I knew that that picture would change people's lives, and yet I was so nervous back then because I was just like, I didn't want to offend Sam. I looked up to him. I was happy that we were developing a friendship. I definitely knew how private he was. You don't really want to pull out cameras around him. You definitely don't want to take his picture, back then especially.

3:53:04BubblemanSo I was kind of like, I remember the day I was like, okay, I'm in his house, like, should I just ask him if I can photograph it? I mean, fuck, it's sitting right there. Like, there it is. It's right there. It's there. It's right there. I got my camera. It's there. It's right fucking there. And I asked him. I said, Sam, can I take a photo of the hash?

3:53:20BubblemanAnd he's just like, yeah, yeah, whatever. I'm like, okay, now I realize I need to take a picture of it before he smokes it all. Because he's smoking at 55 miles an hour and not any less. He's just like, boosh, boosh, jaboosh, jaboosh. And so I get the camera all set up and I pull out the hash. I didn't spend too much time shooting, but I'll never forget the sound I made in my head when I photographed that picture.

3:53:47BubblemanAnd it wasn't that I thought it was a monetary value, but literally when I photographed the first one and it showed up on my screen a second later on the screen, I literally in my head went, cha-ching! Like it was just the most incredible money shot ever and it was really the beginning of my macro career because I believe that was 2008, the year that I got my macro lens in November at the Cannabis Cup when I first photographed Sam's most incredible out of this world hash.

3:54:24BubblemanYeah.

3:54:25TonyPhotography is like Coyote and the Road Runner. You know, that was the time you caught the Road Runner. Yeah. You know, in your head you're like, ching, ching.

3:54:33BubblemanYou know what, the photography was like the 90 micron bag. It was the unveiling of the quality. It allowed me to unveil the quality. It was a prosthetic, much the way the bags are a prosthetic for us to isolate and extract resin glands. The camera was a way for me to isolate an image that my eyes just couldn't see. Thank you for watching.

3:55:10BubblemanBut it'll go up through Facebook and it will be a Bubble Man MPE macro episode. I'm going to invite Todd. I'm going to invite Dynasty Genetics. I'm going to invite Shale. I'm going to invite Adam from DNA. I think Dane might have gotten the lens. We're going to have a really nice panel of people who have been shooting with the lens for a decade plus and people who just got the lens.

3:55:34BubblemanI didn't realize how much I know about this lens until I started explaining it to Tony the other day on the phone. I think that all of these other panelists will have just as much to offer and it should be an incredible episode if you want to gather knowledge on taking macro photographs of all things cannabis. And when is this? This will happen this week, probably between Tuesday and Thursday I'll try and make it happen but I don't have an actual date worked out because trying to get the panel all organized is more difficult than it would sound.

3:56:06SpeakerYeah, that's amazing. I can't wait to see what comes from that because good pictures of hash are really what keeps the scene going. Without that, it's hard to see what we're doing.

3:56:20TonyThat was my inspiration too. What you did in the photography world was you created intimacy.

3:56:28TonyBetween our obsession with resin. When we thought we couldn't get any closer, you brought us in closer. And I was like, oh wow, there's one little head. Oh, there's lots of little heads. Look how clear and amazing those are. And it makes you want to, like you said, it's the unveiling. You want to see how good the resin is. You put it under the macro and it'll tell you everything.

3:56:50SpeakerMore than anything else was the mere fact that it was living proof that it could be done.

3:56:57TonyBingo.

3:56:58BubblemanExactly.

3:56:59SpeakerYeah, as well.

3:57:00BubblemanThat's it. It was living proof that it could be done. It changed the game in a variety of ways because not only did you get this group of people that wanted to experience The 99.9% hash, but in order to share it properly, you also needed to learn how to take a proper photo of it. So it became this sort of dual sort of things that you needed to master.

3:57:23BubblemanYou needed to simultaneously learn photography and how to shoot this resin while also being able to make and unveil that sort of quality or purity in the first place, not quality, sorry. We as hash makers, we unveil.

3:57:35SpeakerOr make a partnership with... One person makes it and the other person takes it.

3:57:40BubblemanAbsolutely. And that happens as well. It's just nice, like Wook was talking about, when you can control everything in-house, and I don't just mean the growing to the hash making, but also the photography, you allow yourself to achieve a level of excellence that would be hard to be achieved otherwise when you can control all those factors.

3:58:03TonyYep, definitely. Was that coincidence or was that predestination, you know?

3:58:07BubblemanIt was predestination, you know. On that note, it's 1 o'clock here on a Sunday afternoon. Beautiful sunny day here in BC. I got the boat in the water. I think I might go put my family in there and float around for a while and appreciate my health and my family. And just, you know, every day, live your life like it's your last. Crazy shit is happening there out there in the world.

3:58:29BubblemanNot sure if you guys heard yesterday. Pretty horrible mass shooting. People are losing their lives every day. We're all blessed to be here and share this information, and I want to thank each and every one of you from Dab Logic to Chimera to Sam the Skunk Man, Johnny Burfellow, Mark Scaldone, the Dank Duchess, Tony Verzura, the West Coast Concentrate Boys, Brett and Adam, Wook Sauce Winery for making it in right towards the end, of course, Frenchie and Todd, E420K, and anyone else that was in here earlier that I missed.

3:59:00BubblemanI do appreciate it. Hashtag Church90. In the bag. All you gotta do is scoop it out. Peace out, everybody.

3:59:07SpeakerPeace.