Jamaica's Cannabis Licensing and Global Progress

0:01BubblemanGood morning, everyone, and welcome to Hash Church episode 89. Aren't you glad that I'm adding the number now as the Roman numerals are starting to get just slightly outrageous? So we're going to do our morning ritual here. Say hello to everyone in the chat. We've got a nice big chat full going right now, and I'm just going to wait so I can mute. There we go. Boom, boom, shaboom.

0:24BubblemanAnd then we will invite our panelists in. As always, great group of guys coming in today. Let me just find the new message. That's not it. Let's get over here. Here we go.

0:43BubblemanUnbelievable that it disappeared.

0:47BubblemanI guess I got to start over here. Let's see if I can't get to Chimera first. Chimera. Oh, I guess I better save the actual. It's not so easy doing this all by yourself when you're not organized. But anyway, I hope everyone's doing wonderful today. I'm going to have to do the entire thing over again as I guess I misplaced it to get everyone invited in. I had such a great group invited in today too.

1:19BubblemanI can never remember. Well, let's get a couple of people in here. 2420K in the house. I want to invite Dana Larson in today if he's around, see if he's got anything new happening. Mr. Chris Bennett, our historian, should always come in.

1:39SpeakerAnd then it's just a matter of figuring it out who else I invited in. I guess I better get that.

1:46BubblemanGood morning. How are you today, sir?

2:11BubblemanOh, I'm doing not too bad. You know, I had a great group of people ready for inviting in today, and somehow the box disappeared when I went to send a message to another friend, and it's a bummer because I have thousands of people on my Facebook, and it's not so easy. To invite them in each time. So I wanted to invite a couple of the girls in.

2:37BubblemanI wanted to invite Samantha Elvian, who we haven't heard from for some time. And, yeah, just get that invitation out to everyone, you know?

2:50Etienne FontanYeah. Good morning, skunk man.

2:53BubblemanGood afternoon or evening for him.

2:58Etienne FontanYeah, very much evening.

3:00BubblemanSix o'clock. 5 o'clock, 9 hour difference. Beautiful. Well, we're loose today, you know. We don't really have any conversation planned. I did invite Kevin back in just in case him and Chimera wanted to open up that discussion that they had last week. But otherwise, super loose. We can talk about whatever we want as always. Put the invitation out. I'm pretty sure it'd be funny if I forgot like Todd McCormick and some of the other people that come in every week.

3:34Etienne FontanThat was a great discussion last week. I mean, that was, you know, with the genomics, that was just fascinating to learn and see where people are and see how light years ahead some people are in the spans of looking at cannabis research. We know that Sam has been doing it for decades as well, but this seems to be taking the genomics to a whole other level.

3:57BubblemanYeah, absolutely. I was very impressed. I was obviously slightly bummed in the sense that I was at a show and I was unable to, I didn't want to just be there for the entire Hash Church. I wanted to make sure Tony was there for a while and I went back to the booth because the booth was absolutely insane how crazy the booth was at this event. We walked through 110 packs of Terps.

4:23BubblemanIn less than two days, we probably could have sold a couple hundred packs of Terps. It was very, very busy. Toronto was very just open-armed and receptive to the Terpene, Bubble Man, Blue River booth. So, blowing smoke towards the Vatican. I think I will turn on my D-nail first because morning cold, cold dabs in the morning are nothing that I really am looking forward to, so.

4:52Etienne FontanSo D, you're here and you're in the morning, so what is it you should be hearing this morning from you?

4:59SpeakerWell, let's bong rip. Bong rip, mother lovers. Let's go. Good morning. Good morning, D420K.

5:05Etienne FontanGood morning, D. Is that a beard controller there?

5:10SpeakerYeah, I got, uh... I tied it up. It was a little crazy today. It was going this way and that way, so I just tied her up.

5:17BubblemanI noticed you and Chance almost had no beards in 2012 on your old picture that you posted the other day. Was that 2012 you guys decided to start growing your beards or what?

5:27SpeakerWell, we've grown them a few times, but that was the time we both had them cut off. When we were in jail together, we grew our beards. When we got out, we cut them, all that kind of shit. Cool. When you were out of jail growing a beard. Yeah, it's steady growing the beard. I actually started growing it because I was working on the oil fields doing reclamation work, putting the old leases back to bed, making them like they used to be.

5:51SpeakerAnd I wasn't allowed to have my beard then because of the H2S gas sealings on your face and all that stuff because of the safety of it. So I was allowed to grow the beard. Now that I'm working out in the bush like that, I'm growing it.

6:05BubblemanSomeone says you've got a Chris Bennett thing going on with those glasses. Welcome Todd McCormick to the room.

6:12Todd MccormickGood morning.

6:14BubblemanWho's Chris Bennett?

6:18BubblemanTatiana and D420K are already bong ripping. I feel like I should get in the same route. We already have 600 people watching live at 9.06 a.m. on a Sunday morning. Wow. Shout out to all of you guys. We couldn't do it without you, obviously. It would be a bunch of guys talking to each other. Not that we don't do that every day, too, but this is fun.

6:43Etienne FontanPlease let the dogs out.

6:45BubblemanLet's blow that smoke towards the Vatican.

6:50Etienne FontanTodd's letting the dogs out.

6:52BubblemanWho let the dogs out?

6:54Todd MccormickThat would be someone else, because I'm sitting here talking to you. Did you actually hear that? That's fucked up.

7:03SpeakerYou sound tired. I am tired, actually.

7:09BubblemanI'm feeling that. Let's talk Jamaica, someone says. Well, I'll tell you one good thing about Jamaica. After all these months, potentially a couple of years now, from the time that it started until the time where we are now... So they have finally released these license regulations, the application forms for applying for the licenses, all the different types of licenses and you can see by the types of licenses that they really covered the gamut.

7:37BubblemanI can kind of really show you guys real quick the selection that they went through. I've got it on my phone here. The process is the types of licenses that you can get in Jamaica right now are cultivator's license, which there are three different tiers. You've got to cultivate up to one acre, which is 4,000 square meters of land with ganja for medical, scientific, and therapeutic purposes.

8:02BubblemanIt's going to say that at the end of every one of these, so I'm going to avoid that part from now on. Tier two license, which is to cultivate between one and five acres, which is between 4,000 and 20,000 square meters. And then a tier three Which I really tend to like is the cultivate over five acres, you know, obviously that's over 20,000 square meters of land with ganja.

8:27BubblemanAnd then they go into their processing licenses. They have a tier one for under 200, up to and below 200 square meters space of processing. And then of course the tier two is one That is over 200 square meters. We've got transport licenses available for vehicles. And then they're doing retail on the island. And the retail is going to come in the form of pharmacies or dispensaries.

8:51BubblemanThey're leaving that open, and that's going to be a place where you can purchase ganja products or sell ganja products, but you can't actually consume them on property. That's going to be called the herb house. The herb house are basically the equivalent of the Barcelona clubs. The herb house will allow you to not only sell and buy ganja products for medical, scientific, and therapeutic purposes, With a space for immediate consumption by consumers, so vapor bar, smoke lounge, etc.

9:21BubblemanSo the Herb House, love the name on that by the way Jamaica, I think you'd eat well there. The Herb House is obviously going to be what I consider probably one of the most popular of the three methods of distribution. And that brings us to the third method, which is the therapeutic. And so they're going to be allowed to sell the ganja products for medical and scientific and therapeutic purposes as well.

9:43BubblemanNot sure, I mean obviously they're going to be able to use those products on hand as well. It'll just be different from the herb houses. It'll be more like a spa or a healing center as opposed to a club. And then at the bottom we have research and development licenses that are available and they're offering an experimental one which is undertaking all activities involved in the assessment, study, research, development, and testing of products derived from any part of The cannabis plant including the analytical services and then there's an analytical services research and development license as well.

10:18BubblemanSo, you know, one, two, three, four, five types of licenses you can get with multiple tiers in each one. They're taking this seriously. I really think that they might be going a little bit, you know, I wouldn't say slow because it's been less than two years from start to finish that these regulations have come out and I haven't really seen anything happen. Too much faster in the cannabis community, whether it be Uruguay or Canada or America, seems to move at this sort of slow and steady pace of taking multiple years to get a document in our hands so that we can apply for a license.

10:55Etienne FontanSo when can people put seeds in the ground legally under these new auspices?

11:02BubblemanWell, that's a bit of a gray area, you know, because definitely the second the Jamaican government announced that they were decriminalizing a couple of ounces, I can assure you people put seeds in the ground. Now, legal companies, large companies that have more to lose, they're going to be a little bit more careful. There is on the license page, and Sam had it opened up the other day where it's, I actually took, I opened that up as well.

11:27BubblemanThere's this, there's this guy. So I'm not sure if you guys can see this, but this is how the licensing will happen. From start to finish, you're going to be going through literally 12 milestones to get your license. Now, it's possible that somewhere in the middle there where they offer applicator undertakes additional initial report done and conditional approval given, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. So number 7, that's number 7 right there.

11:58BubblemanYou can get conditional approval. I would guess that's where it can happen, but I'm not 100% sure because, hey, I'm learning just like everyone else. I don't really have a backdoor into the information. I get the information as it is released off of the websites, and I will put that, I have actually put that in the Hash Church group for those of you that want to go look at it and check it out.

12:22BubblemanIt's exciting to see that Jamaica is really... One thing they overlooked, Marcus...

12:27SpeakerWe want a resin shack or maybe a hash house. A hash house? Yeah. In other words, they got a herb house. We want a hash house, Mon.

12:39BubblemanYes, Mon, and I hear you, and I'm not sure if that's one of your hilarious sort of sarcastic jokes or if you're serious. No, I'm serious. Okay, well, here's the thing. The herb house and the hash house will be the same. The herb... Is hash under their definition. They are defining cannabis as any and all parts of the cannabis plant. So your herb house, Sam, will be a hash house.

13:05SpeakerI guarantee it will be built out of hash, man.

13:10BubblemanOh my God.

13:11Etienne FontanStack them trichomes.

13:14BubblemanThe hash is the Jamaican gum house.

13:18Etienne FontanHash house. So they just dropped these in the middle of the night this week, yes?

13:23BubblemanIt went up on Monday or Tuesday. It was just like pop. I remember my friend sent it to me and I was kind of like, where did you get this? Can I share this? And he's like, yeah, of course, I got it off the website. I'm like, oh, okay, well, shit.

13:37Etienne FontanWhat other residency requirements are there?

13:40BubblemanThere are residency requirements. They definitely want the majority of the company to be controlled and owned by Jamaicans, which I completely understand. Um, certain things like, uh, you know, if you're the person applying for the Grow license in your name, they're going to have that person be a local Jamaican or a person that's been living in Jamaica for three years, uh, at least. And so I see that the growers that are going to end up coming to Jamaica will probably be hired as consultants because there's no way Growers from North America, Europe, and all over the world aren't going to be coming to Jamaica to share their knowledge, and obviously Jamaica's not into shutting that knowledge down.

14:21BubblemanThe neat thing about Jamaica is pretty much any way it's written, they'll have go-arounds. They'll have ways like people will read it and go, oh no, like if you have a record you can't know now, just a second, if you have a record for particular things, you need to have five years free of being in trouble since the day you were charged. If you have a record for certain things, which I believe are drug charges, they have the numbers written down, but I didn't go through the facts.

14:48BubblemanYeah, it's 10 years, so if you have a charge for cannabis or something, you have to wait 10 years from the charge before you'd be allowed to be in that position where you could actually be the director on a company. Now, that doesn't mean that you couldn't work for said company in the exact same position without being the director, so there's always ways to make it work, and it seems as though Jamaica's setting it up in a way that really will make it work for We'll know more in the next year when, you know, these companies start executing their plans.

15:18BubblemanIn the meantime, Jamaicans are growing more and more herb. I think one of the best things about growing herb in Jamaica under decriminalization or legalization will be the fact that the Jamaicans no longer have to hide. They no longer have to climb mountains. They no longer have to carry hundreds of pounds of shit through the jungle, which I'm telling you is hot as fuck. To get to a safe zone where the police or someone else won't accidentally uncover it.

15:45BubblemanSo this is a major, major thing. I mean, to me, it's up there with people like Colton Turner not being allowed to leave Colorado because he uses cannabis medicinally and he could potentially perish if he left for too long and have his Crohn's disease take him out. This is the equivalent of imagine him being able to travel all over the U.S. suddenly with his medicine. It's a pretty major thing for Jamaicans not to have to hide to grow their herb.

16:14BubblemanTo be able to grow next to a road is going to be incredible.

16:19SpeakerTruthfully, I think it's a big deal for the whole world. I mean, Jamaica's been synonymous with ganja forever, and for them to be taking these steps and saying, fuck the United States' stupid laws, and, you know, the United Nations is just as backwards-ass, it's great they're taking a step in the right direction. They've been impressing themselves for how many decades? Todd, they don't have to say fuck the United States anymore.

16:40SpeakerThe United States said fuck the United States. Look what Colorado, California, Washington. I mean, come on, what is it, 23, 27 states now?

16:52SpeakerCompletely agree. You know, my point is, though, is, you know, for the longest time we heard that the coffee shops in Amsterdam could never go completely legal due to the fact of America's pressure and such.

17:00Todd MccormickAnd you know what? You know, America's problem has been democracy. Because if it wasn't for these state initiatives, we would have gotten nowhere with our elected legislators. I mean, a lot of people don't realize when, you know, Dennis Perrone We had failed numerous times to get anywhere with the Republican governor at the time. The fuck was his name? Gray Davis. We got nowhere with these elected politicians who were nothing but lackeys for big business that had big money and big lobbyists and would never listen to us.

17:40Todd MccormickSo the initiative was our last chance. Ditch effort, and if it wasn't for the initiatives, we would still be sitting here thumbing our thumbs in California and breaking the law, and I'd probably be doing even a longer sentence than I did.

17:54SpeakerAnd that initiative certainly started as a popular initiative, but what pushed it over the hill and made it on the ballot was the people from the drug policy stepping up and footing the bill when we didn't have enough money.

18:10Todd MccormickWell, you know, yes, yes for sure. I mean, you know, the thing was is that, you know, both Tennessee and Jack came from a school of thinking that they could get volunteers to change the world, that, you know, this would be this great hippie movement of, you know, just pure passion. And while that's great and all, You know, this is a big state, and you need organization.

18:30Todd MccormickSo when they were failing, DPA did come in with funding, and Chris Conrad and his wife Mickey came in, and they were heroes. You know, they organized the state, they got it together, and we all, you know, we have all this progress. Really, we have to thank them for it, in my opinion.

18:50SpeakerYou know, what's funny is that when Dennis was just about to put this initiative on the ballot, and I told him, you know, it's just a little too liberal. Dennis, you've got to tone it down if you want to guarantee it's going to pass. And he just refused. So up on the ballot it went, and that night I called him and congratulated him and said, I was wrong, you were right.

19:16Todd MccormickWell, you know what's funny is my complaint when I got the fax, it was right in 95 before I got busted in Ohio the first time. I was sitting in the San Diego Compassion Club, and when I got the first draft of what is now 215, it didn't even allow for us to distribute medical cannabis to people that were sick. And I thought, how short-sighted is this damn initiative?

19:36Todd MccormickSo I called up to John Etwistle and complained at the time and said, what are you guys doing? You're not even legalizing your own activities. And they were like, well, I know, we know, but we don't want to go too far. So it's funny that, like, you were perceiving it as too liberal, and I was perceiving it as, you know, too controlling.

19:55SpeakerWell, no, I think I saw it after your stuff was added.

19:59Todd MccormickNo, they never added anything for clubs. I mean, you know, this is why, you know, distribution didn't really take off until SB 420, really. I mean, people like 18 and PPG were total outlaws up until that regulation. Am I wrong, 18? No, we were, definitely, without a doubt.

20:18SpeakerI wasn't against it being so open. I was worried that it wouldn't pass because it was too open.

20:23Etienne FontanOh, I understand. You're totally livid, Sam. He was right.

20:25SpeakerHe was right.

20:27Etienne FontanMore than anything, we always realized that, I mean, like BPG, with Debbie and Don originally, it was gathering any type of information because we were anticipating to be busted within two years. So everything that we were doing was actually keeping receipts, actually keeping transaction records. We started to do these things in... Preparation of a defense in case we went to court, we actually could show where every dime went, where everything went, that this went to actual patients.

21:01Etienne FontanSo we literally started to build our own defense of the courts against, of course, many of the wishes of our lawyers who were like, you shouldn't be keeping any information or anything. I was like, wait a second, we're patients. We're serving patients. We want to make sure that we're doing this right. Because of these huge holes in 215, there are no regulations, there are no standards. We have to create them ourselves.

21:24Etienne FontanAnd so that's why one of the main issues with Berkeley Patients Group was to be activists on the front line, be proactive, show defense in court. That's why there's Patients in the Name of Berkeley Patients Group, because there was so much Thank you for joining us.

22:03Etienne FontanBecause we, again, we were illegal. We were not regulated. There was no way to go to the State Board of Equalization and get a certificate. We couldn't pay taxes. These were all things that have since changed in the many years. But early on, it was be anticipated to be busted. When you're a bust, have as much information so that you could hopefully, if administered in court, you could prove it and to show that what we were doing was right.

22:30Etienne FontanSo it was always a direct action to change the laws. It's just they never showed up.

22:36Todd MccormickWell, right. I mean, and all that law gave us was an affirmative defense. I mean, it never gave us the legalization we thought it would.

22:44SpeakerIt never justified our existence as growers or producers or... That's absolutely true, Todd, but what it also did was it changed the approach of the narcotics and police officers. They no longer considered us flies caught on their trap.

23:05Etienne FontanAnd we kept information and we showed them and we invited them in and we said, come look at what we're doing, you know, which was very kind of crazy if you really think about it. But at the same time, we wanted to, again, prove that everything we're doing was above board in the absence of a law. And since then, we have shown Thank you for joining us today.

23:51Etienne FontanDo you feel these regulations will create holes that have to be filled or do you think they're pretty solidly filled?

24:01BubblemanI think it'll be impossible to create something from scratch without holes. However, I would sort of say that Jamaica... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

24:40BubblemanThey had so much to access and it seemed as though they accessed it. It seemed as though, you know, people were coming there and saying, oh, we know what's going on. And they were like, okay, tell us. But they were doing that with everyone. The whole, every group of people that went there and told them how it was, they just created another little piece of the puzzle until they had this beautiful overview and then created those regulations based on that overview.

25:06SpeakerWhat they haven't done yet is they haven't shown how they will want the cannabis labeled. In other words, which cannabinoids, what percentage, which terpenoids, if that's important to be added. Also, listing the pesticides that can't be used for cultivation. They haven't done anything about that yet.

25:25BubblemanYep. These are all things that are going to be created as the agricultural aspects begin, as the processing begins. Like I said, there'll be these little holes that need to be filled. But once again, you know, I have a feeling Jamaica will not limit THC the way other countries have chosen to.

25:45SpeakerI think they were lucky in that I think they heard prospective problems or problems that other people have had with all their programs, so they're wise to them.

25:55Etienne FontanWell, there's also been some movement this week on other levels. Ohio, I do believe, has passed this legislature for medical marijuana, which would make it the 26th state after Louisiana was the 25th state. And Ohio 710 has been talking all week. He's in chat talking about what's happening in West Virginia. There's a bill supposedly in West Virginia. And West Virginia, as well as Louisiana, has a special place in my heart because I went to college in West Virginia at Morgantown, West Virginia, at West Virginia University.

26:25Etienne FontanSo I definitely want to see West Virginia take things in a general direction that is more positive. But we saw in Ohio is we, you don't get personal cultivation again. So we saw sort of a similar situation what happened in Pennsylvania. This continues to happen in the Northeast where you can have, they'll have access and they'll have grows apparently, but you yourself cannot grow your own flowers yet.

26:55Etienne FontanSo things are happening domestically still.

27:00Etienne FontanExcellent. Ohio 710, if you can put up any information regarding the status of West Virginia's status.

27:09BubblemanHe just said talk about West Virginia. That's the only thing he said so far.

27:14Etienne FontanWell, it's a great state and I learned, you know what's very fascinating is a lot of Rastas and Jamaicans moved to West Virginia because it reminds them of the mountains of Jamaica. And when I was, I had an all ages club in Morgantown, West Virginia back in the early 90s, a lot of Rastas were around and they grew in the hills and they turned me on to really good herbs.

27:35Etienne FontanSo Jamaican-West Virginia connection, huge, much love.

27:39BubblemanDid they not have a Blue Mountains in West Virginia?

27:43Etienne FontanSimilar, you know, West Virginia is completely inside the mountains, so it's the only state completely encompassed within the mountains. We always used to joke, if you could stomp West Virginia flat, it would be bigger than Alaska, because it's just very up and very down, and for a kid like myself, who's from below sea level, killed my shins for weeks when I was in West Virginia, going up hills for the first time.

28:07Etienne FontanThat shit sucked. And winter, that weather, not funny either. But great herb, good scene, great herb scene in West Virginia. It's always been there. I mean, I got turned on early on. And for the most part, it's just solid people, good growers, good people. They just want to grow their herb and live in peace. You know, that's the reality, just like everybody else.

28:33BubblemanSo it is called the Blue Ridge Mountains, and I said that because in Jamaica they have the Blue Mountains. So it's just interesting that there is that even more of a connection through the mountains. I'm sure the Jamaicans that move there are like, no way, the Blue Mountain Ridge? This is awesome.

28:49JohnnyBeautiful.

28:50BubblemanHey, welcome Johnny B and Tony V who are sitting on the outside. I guess for a while there they didn't get the hash church link. I like to make people sweat in the morning just for five or ten minutes, make them think they've, you know, Tony's like, damn, I thought I pissed you off or something. I'm like, dude, are you serious? I'm like holding hash church control over people when they piss me off.

29:10JohnnyWell, and this morning I felt I did good because you see, Todd, I have cancellation headphones on. I've got my computer set up instead of my laptop. You know, I woke up early. I showered. I ate. I'm like, I'm ready at 9 o'clock. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, there's no link. So I'm in the chat and then Johnny B's on the outside and I'm like, damn, what did we do this morning?

29:36JohnnyI was like, I fucked up with the headphones, I get it. But like, I've got them now. I've got the headphones.

29:44Todd MccormickCan I just be the first to say, and you sound audibly wonderful.

29:49JohnnyWell, you know, it makes a big difference, and I didn't realize that was going on, so it really does.

29:56Etienne FontanIt just kills the echo and everything else, so it's good to have you, good to see you. Johnny, are you sipping out of your new cup that you won, sir?

30:05SpeakerYes, it was actually, I won it last year, but I didn't receive it until yesterday. And it was Canadian Concentrate Open, it was six months of competition. All different concentrates. Remote called me three days before. Is that coffee? Yeah, it's a cappuccino. I did a cappuccino.

30:25Etienne FontanAnd it has a dab rig in it?

30:27BubblemanThat's a dab-a-chino, actually. They call those dab-a-chino.

30:30JohnnyWow.

30:32BubblemanThat's a local blower who makes those. What was his name now? Chris? No.

30:37SpeakerSkull, Skullfish, Skull? Skullfish makes those, yeah.

30:40BubblemanSkullfish was the creator of the Dabicino. We got to shout out Skullfish. He'll be stoked that we shouted him out. I've also got a glass cup here. This mine was made by Corey.

30:53BubblemanCorey caught him.

30:54Etienne FontanVery nice.

30:55BubblemanMine's not a prize by any means, but it's a nice, beautiful, sort of glass, fancy mug, and I love it.

31:03Todd MccormickHeaded kitchenware is really cool.

31:06SpeakerAll I did was clean the resin, and it's something I learned from you, of course. So you did a little bit of time and dedication and a good grower and a good strain, and it was a no-brainer when you take dry sift into a condom and it's cleaned properly. It's by far the most epic out of any kind of concentrate.

31:26BubblemanWell, give a shout-out to Skunk Man Sam, because he was really the inspiration that inspired me, that had me cue how to make that sift.

31:33SpeakerI've been looking for my headphones for Sam I Am, but I can't find them.

31:40BubblemanLet's give a shout out to Le Mano Negra for collecting the Congolese, passing it on to, I believe, Reefer Man, who eventually got it into Vancouver, and then it went via Green Supreme through, kind of got held on there for a little bit, and then it kind of escaped and got to some other people, and then I gave it to everyone, including Remo, who grew that cut.

32:01BubblemanThat you cleaned the resin from, Johnny B. So it's connected to our community incredibly, that one.

32:08SpeakerIt was just epic resin. And the flavor and the smell when you walked into the room. It was laughing and it was just, it's amazing terpenes that come from that Congo and it's the reason why it wins over and over.

32:21BubblemanOh yeah, it's so good. It's why it needed to be given away. It's just like, it's a tough one to keep something like that Just for yourself, when really it's so special. And I would always hear people say, oh, well, I'll give it to them if they deserve it. I'm like, if they deserve it, that seems somewhat judgmental. I think that if you think they don't deserve it, they probably need it the most.

32:46BubblemanDoes that make sense? Well, yeah. If you think someone doesn't deserve something, meaning they don't deserve it, they're not a nice person, it's like, well, maybe they could use a nice strain or cultivar like the Congo or Maybe it'll make them happier and nicer. It's worth a shot anyway. Hey, Johnny B, look, you're right behind me on my wall.

33:07Etienne FontanKindness and showing kindness is kind always. There we go.

33:11BubblemanI like that. I like that, ATN. I just say sharing is caring, but I think I might like what you said better.

33:19Etienne FontanWe always used to have on our booth back when we were volunteering was we accept donations of any kind, underline, underline, underline, underkind. Because kind was an old reference to cannabis, for good cannabis. And so it was, again, how we used lingo to kind of make each other aware, like 420, about what's going on so that we could understand that, oh, we don't just want weed, we don't want mid, we don't want low grade.

33:47Etienne FontanWe only want kind, please.

33:49BubblemanHey, I want to welcome Mark Grissman to the room. I mean, Scaldone.

33:55Mark GrissmanMark Grissman, really?

33:57BubblemanWell, I saw you at the festival the other day.

34:00Mark GrissmanYeah, yeah, I was at a festival last week.

34:03BubblemanI'm a big Bluegrass fan as well. You might not know that about me because I don't talk about it much, but I've seen all those guys play countless times and just really love the vibes, and it always brings a little smile to my face when I see you right in there. That 14-year-old, 12-year-old kid on the banjo was slaying.

34:19Mark GrissmanOh, my God. That kid, E. Rockwell, is just, oh, my God. He schooled me on how to play the intro to Scarlet Pagonias, which I've been playing for 35 years. But, yeah, we were right across the river from West Virginia, the mighty Potomac River that cuts through Cumberland, Maryland. So a lot of good West Virginia folk were out. And we brought a straightener and made a bunch of rosin.

34:44Mark GrissmanThat's awesome. Yeah, we were thinking about you guys, Hash Church. But yeah, it's Bluegrass Church. Mark, that guy can play. Oh my God. For a 14-year-old kid, he has so much talent. Oh Lord. G Rockwell, everyone look him up.

35:02BubblemanYeah, I'm telling you, it's worthwhile. The kid really does play ridiculous. It's amazing when people can be that age and just be so unbelievably talented and It's kind of mind-blowing when you think about it. That youth energy, too, especially for the banjo. He's got that young energy that he can just flow out into the banjo. Well, it's good that you were there making rosin and making sure that the endocannabinoid systems were getting properly saturated there at the Bluegrass Festival.

35:38Mark GrissmanYes, many musicians were brought to the right level of, Inspiration to contribute.

35:46Etienne FontanYeah, we were talking about West Virginia earlier, and West Virginia is the bluegrass state there along with Kentucky and through there, but I've met some of the most amazing musicians through there because a lot of people didn't grow up with TV, they had to grow up playing things, and so they usually picked up an instrument. Exactly. Even back in Louisiana, I used to, on a Saturday night, this is because we had no television back when I grew up, we used to go around and take CB radios and And turn them around to the stations quietly to figure out which channel actually had a family on the porch jamming.

36:19Etienne FontanAnd you could actually find an open channel and listen to your neighbors somewhere in the swamp just jamming for hours, and that was music. That was access. That puts a smile on my face, Etienne. It was great when you found something. It really sucked when you didn't find anything, which was more often than not. Yeah. No doubt.

36:40BubblemanBut still, when you found something, that's mining for gold right there.

36:44Etienne FontanWell, you could hear something you'd never hear before and you'd hear talent unlike anything you'd heard or, you know, back then it was what, Hee Haw and, you know, that was Lawrence Welk. That was your access. This is pre, you know, this is early 70s. This is before, you know, music television or stuff like that. So, yeah, yeah.

37:03SpeakerGotta love country music and, you know. Lawrence Welk was music television to my grandmother.

37:10Etienne FontanPretty much, yeah. Yeah. It was usually Hee Haw and Lawrence Welk, right? One followed the other.

37:19Todd MccormickOh my gosh. I think Hee Haw and Lawrence Welk were on different channels, man. Grand Ole Opry for sure was definitely big there.

37:29SpeakerI think Wolfman Jack had more influence on our generation.

37:34BubblemanDude, I'm talking about hee-haw. That was some quality shit right there. Comedy and killer jamming, that's the thing. Back then, those country musicians were so talented. It was before that new country sort of erupted, which is the auto-tuned version of country. Those musicians were incredible.

37:54Mark GrissmanYou know, Lawrence Welk was the bubble man before bubble man, right?

37:58BubblemanThere we go. Lawrence Welk, the original Bubble Man. Actually, I heard Skunk Man Sam created the Bubble Man. I read about it in a magazine. It has to be true.

38:09Todd MccormickWow, that makes perfect sense, man. Yep.

38:13SpeakerWell, I had some time left over after creating you, Todd.

38:17Todd MccormickI appreciate that. I was a difficult creation. You should see the article that Ben Dronker sent me this morning. There are some serious haters in the industry that hate everyone else in the industry, it seems. I didn't even know where to start. It was like a zillion pages long, and he sent it to me like, what do you think? And I was just like, I can't believe this is what we're up against.

38:41Todd MccormickI can't believe there's that many people that vehemently oppose legalization and progress so much that they'll just lie about everything that's going on.

38:51BubblemanYeah, you called it right there. It's like beyond cognitive dissonance. It's more like... Willful lying and manipulation.

39:00SpeakerCannabis fundamentalism.

39:02Etienne FontanYeah, it's unbelievable. I think it's shell shock from the years of drug war. People are so fucked up mentally because of it that they fight against the change that would, you know, free them from repression.

39:14BubblemanBut they're so easily manipulated and guided by the agenda that be. I'm sure the Black Panthers saw the exact same thing. I'm sure every major group that was created that was that alternative, they always go in there and create dissent. They create dissent. That's what they do. And so I can't imagine that they haven't been doing anything.

39:35Etienne FontanWell, there was Cointelpro, which was the government's known access point of, the United States government's point of infiltrating and manipulation. And starting to watch some of these people, I mean, they're just following some of the very same patterns. That's all I'm saying.

39:55Etienne FontanInfiltrate, lie, willful lie, manipulation, putting out flyers with willful lies and misinformation to change the mind of voters with lies and misinformation. I mean, that is nothing but yellow journalism propaganda.

40:09SpeakerThey basically went after every anti-war group. You know, they tried to destroy them.

40:17Todd MccormickYeah, it's absolutely true, you know. It's funny, I'm actually going to file for my Freedom of Information Act for all the various bureaucracies to see how far back they were poking around me and Jack Kerrer and trying to figure out what we were up to. I bet you anything it goes all the way back to, you know, when we first started filing initiatives.

40:39Todd MccormickI'm sure they don't like you doing, don't play with their democracy, you know.

40:43SpeakerThat's part, one of the main reasons Canada's laws work. Not only created but enforced. It allowed them to go after the people they didn't like or want in our country.

40:55Etienne FontanAnd they could use lies and manipulation at will and are legally even allowed to lie.

41:01SpeakerThey're a drug user. It doesn't matter.

41:03Todd MccormickRight. Well, drug user for the longest time was, you know, just such a... I had a cop call me a doper once. You doper. And honestly, it was like, I guess what hit me was the er, you know, because it was just so rude, you know, and I was just like, damn, you know, like now I know how it feels. Jesus. But yeah, there's a lot of bigotry against us even now.

41:29BubblemanDude, you know, while we're talking about this, Smash Extracts said, or by stifling a new extraction process. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He's been asking me to get Chris from The Clear to come in here and talk about the Baroni for four weeks. So I invited Chris, and Chris just didn't talk about the Baroni. I didn't ask him not to talk about it. He felt he didn't want to shamelessly plug himself.

41:53BubblemanSo then Smash went on for two more straight weeks about how we need to invite him in to talk about the liquid nitrogen and the Baroni in this. And I was like, I'll invite him in next week for the special half episode, hash episode. So he just basically went on the hate boat and said that I'm trying to stifle Chris's liquid nitrogen method because I haven't invited him into Hash Church fast enough to talk about it.

42:15BubblemanAnd I did take personal offense and booted his ass out of the chat room.

42:19SpeakerIt's funny because you were... Telling me that I might find something like this really interesting. And I think what we can each do is, starting with me, we'll each take a half an hour to promote ourselves. And that way, you know, you'll feel right at home next time.

42:38BubblemanI mean, the bottom line is Chris is invited in. I want him to come talk about his liquid nitrogen, but all that guy Smash has offered to the room in four weeks is get Chris in to talk about liquid nitrogen. Get Chris in to talk about liquid nitrogen. It's like, bro, okay, I heard you. I got it. We're going to get Chris in. We love Chris. He's a good guy.

42:58BubblemanHe can come in and talk about it, but holy shit, do not try to control the chat room. And definitely do not call me out for trying to stifle anyone's process. That shit right there is a great way to get yourself bumped right up. You got me interested. I want some liquid nitrogen right now. Yeah, absolutely. I'm hearing it. Anyway.

43:16Etienne FontanI want some too. That's beyond fresh frozen.

43:21BubblemanDrink up. Drink up. Dude, I'm not trying to stifle anyone's shit. That's the bottom line. When people call me out for that, I'm like, whoa, what do you think Hash Church is about? This is just for sharing information. We have no... The fact that people think we gain from the information we share is absolutely ridiculous. Like, we're out here just gaining from coming on Hash Church every week.

43:47BubblemanIt's a shared knowledge. I enjoy listening to the people in chat. They ask wonderful questions often. They lead the conversation in a great way, and every once in a while, you know, a conversation gets erupted in Hash Church that is...

44:01Etienne FontanBubble men. Bubble men. Take a bong hit. Take a bong rip.

44:05SpeakerAnd Mark, I'd be happy to hear about his frozen gas extraction method. That sounds really interesting to me.

44:20BubblemanYeah, absolutely. I'm not against it. I'm just saying, if you're in the chat and you want us to do something, the professional way to do it is to send me an email at Not go over and over and over again in the chat and then actually turn to aggression and start attacking. Not cool. Yes, I'm venting. Bubble Man's venting.

44:39SpeakerYeah, he wanted you to notice it. You did.

44:42BubblemanWell, I noticed it. Job accomplished.

44:48SpeakerOh, it's always nice on a happy Sunday.

44:51Etienne FontanSo what are you smoking on today, Mr. Bubble Man, or what are you going to toke on?

44:55BubblemanI just put some Glacial Melts in my bowl, some Tangy 90 Micron.

45:00SpeakerTangy. I'm smoking some Congo Sift. It's really got me buzzing.

45:08BubblemanShout out to Glacial Melts. They made some nice product and kicked us down some... They kicked us down a lot of shit in Toronto.

45:15SpeakerTook the words right out of my mouth. I'm going to say that. Tangy from those guys and the chem was so epic. Yeah, thank you because...

45:22BubblemanI got the chem right here. You must have smoked... All of it. All of it?

45:28SpeakerIt's my favorite. I love chem. That's one of my favorite strains and... I scraped the rest of that yesterday and then I went over and saw Remo and he had a little bit to scrape too. Yes, they were nice tasting. They did a good job. And I like how they put it in bigger jars and make it really thin than putting it in small jars and having it thick that way.

45:51SpeakerWhat's your thoughts on that? Just on the presentation in that jar, it was easier for me to actually get it out and it didn't butter up as quick.

46:02BubblemanSorry, just replying to people in chat. There's people upset with my orneriness. I had to apologize for my orneriness. But hey, sometimes the director's got to be a dick. Right, Tony? Sometimes that has to happen.

46:16Etienne FontanSometimes the boss has to boss. But as I say, I've never fired anyone. They fired themselves. We just have to go through the motions now.

46:25SpeakerOrnery. Ornery. I'll be back.

46:35Bubbleman825 people watching right now on the Sunday afternoon. Hashtag Church89. So here's something I was going to lay on you guys. And it goes right back...

46:46BubblemanChris, actually, because I'm absolutely inviting him in next week to share his information, as well as I wanted to get Tony in the Bubble Man Blue River Prana Lab to show a little bit of what's going on over there. I want to make episode 90, which is next week, another hash spectacular episode. I want to focus in on it. And hash people. I'm going to invite a variety of people in once again.

47:15BubblemanHopefully we won't get particular people jumping in without invitations. We really do hope that if you get an invitation you don't send it to anyone. But yeah, we'll start a link in the hashtag group and if anyone has any suggestions as to who should come in for the 90 micron episode, it's episode 90 which represents the black bag The 90 micron bag for anyone that's ever made bubble.

47:38BubblemanDefinitely up there in quality. And something cool about the episode 73, Hash Church episode, that's got like 25 or 30,000 views right now. It's one of the ones that the most people have watched. So I suspect if we do 90 properly, we could have a real nice show. So panelists, keep your ears open for next week as to who we should... Who we should get in for that and what we can share and really just get as much information as possible about hash making that can help people.

48:12BubblemanThat's kind of what I want to make the episode. And stories and beautiful pieces of hash. Maybe we'll get the West Coast guys in making hash. It'd be nice to just have a full, yeah, Frenchie would be great. Cubans definitely at the top of the invite list. Yeah, nice hash episode.

48:30SpeakerIt'd be great. I'm going to make hash all this week now. I haven't pulled any bags since surgery, so it's time to make hash. That's what I'm going to do. Inspiration, episode 90. We'll be making hash all night tonight from 6 on until I'm done, probably until fucking 4 or 5 or 1, me and my bro. And we'll be having some apple pie moonshine at the same time, just to warm up a bit.

48:57SpeakerIt's cold.

48:58BubblemanThat apple pie moonshine will shut it off your teeth.

49:04BubblemanReinhardt would be a cool invite. He's very private though. I'm not sure he would come in, but he's definitely got his own information for sure. He'd be interesting. I'd put the invite out to him for sure.

49:19SpeakerTell Reinhardt that he can come in and have the camera just aimed at his extractor machine.

49:27BubblemanYeah, I mean he could for that matter. I would like to invite anyone that has, you know, I mean, geez, it would just, yeah, anyone that you guys can think of that would make an exceptional Hash episode, you know, people that you think are synonymous with Hash, people that have affected the world of Hash.

49:48SpeakerDid I tell you what happened about Rob contacting Neville and asking him about who started, who gave him the idea? No. Did he talk to Neville? Rob was in Australia. He contacted Neville by email. Wow.

50:07SpeakerOkay, for background, Rob and I showed up at Neville's house about five days after this unnamed American had showed him this method, grinding it up with a coffee grinder or a spice grinder or whatever, and then put it in water and the water presses. Okay, so we showed up five days later, and he told us the name of the American, and he said... You know, this is how he showed me and blah, blah, blah.

50:38SpeakerSo we were, you know, lightweightly impressed. But the end effect of it all was that when Rob just contacted him last month in Australia, Neville denied that anybody had ever showed him and he says he invented it.

50:56BubblemanThat's awesome.

50:57SpeakerAnd we know that's not true because we were there five days later and he was on and on about this guy, but he had already left.

51:04BubblemanThe bottom line is you told me that story 20 years ago or a little bit less and there's no agenda or reason for you to lie. You were like, yeah, this is an unknown American told Neville, Neville told us, we played around.

51:17SpeakerIt was both of us. We were both there, both me and Rob.

51:20BubblemanYeah. Sadhu Sam's water extraction.

51:27SpeakerWhat? It's really a shame because I'm always, for some reason the name Mike sticks in my head. I think it's an American grower who came there to buy seeds from me named Mike, but I wouldn't bet my soul on it. Right.

51:44Todd MccormickYeah, so many Americans. Don't even say that because now every asshole named Mike has ever fucking made out to move. I'm that guy. That's right. I'm American Mike. Go back to you. I don't remember. That was much more accurate.

51:55BubblemanI showed Neville. It's a cool part of the history regardless and it is an intricate part of the history because, you know, from my perspective it goes that unknown American to Neville, to you and Robb, You know, somewhere between 88 and 97, Reinhardt came into play with a machine instead of just, you know, he stepped it up a little bit. And then literally less than a year after he released that machine, Mark Rose had named and created the isolator bags.

52:27BubblemanEldon really kind of invented them. Mila sold them. That was the trio of the original water hash bags. I came in about six or seven months later and wanted to try and sell those bags and less than a year later was selling bubble bags. And it's kind of why in the end when people were like, oh, why did you end up making a deal with the patent guy?

52:49BubblemanBecause I got litigated. I got sued for years for selling this product. And at first I was like, fuck that. I'm just selling a product. And As I learned the story, I realized, you know, these bags would have never probably existed had it not been for, it was his machine that they looked at and copied and made the bags from. And so I just felt like, you know, it was a great business decision and it was a morally and ethically correct decision from my perspective to work out the deal, pay for the patent so that all of the bags I ever sold We're paid for and the patent was covered for us.

53:25BubblemanWhat did Eldon get for his idea? Eldon was supposed to get 5% from the isolator company, but years later, just not too long before he passed away, he said he never had ever been paid a penny.

53:40SpeakerI would have been shocked and surprised if he ever got a penny.

53:43BubblemanNo, he never got one.

53:44SpeakerEldon was a friend of mine from 1964. That's why...

53:47BubblemanI know. I knew him in Hollywood. Exactly. So for me, the only thing I was able to really give Eldon back then was like I always gave him his ticket to Legends. And that was, I bought my own ticket to Legends, but I always kicked Eldon down. That was back in the early days of my company when I hadn't sold barely any bags and only just knew the story.

54:09BubblemanIt was, you know, back in the beginning of, what was that, 13, 14 years ago we've been doing a, Legends of hash for now?

54:19SpeakerYep, the last one I think was number 12. But we also did one down in Barcelona. Eldon was also one of the first hash oil manufacturers in Nepal back in the early, early 70s.

54:34BubblemanYes, and in fact it was Eldon's hash oil that I smoked with Rob Clark when Hillary Black brought Rob to my house. In like 96 or 97 in Vancouver, when I was living on the water there, I had this Nepali hash oil. And Rob was like, oh, that dirty, dirty, nasty Nepal. I'll smoke it, whatever. You know, Rob will just, he's like, I'll smoke it. But it was probably not the cleanest stuff back then.

55:00SpeakerEldon has a tendency to go for the cheaper product and then try to make something good out of it.

55:06BubblemanYeah. Well, he definitely, you know, he did... If he was alive today, I would 100% invite him on Hash Church to tell stories because I'm sure he's got some good ones.

55:17SpeakerYeah, absolutely. Because in 65, he was a psychedelic wizard and then moved to Nepal for years and years and years. So I think they finally kicked him out.

55:31BubblemanThey did kick him out of Nepal. He got kicked out of Nepal.

55:36SpeakerYep.

55:37BubblemanShout out to Eldon. Raise your chalices. Take a dab for Eldon.

55:42SpeakerIt's a small world and it's an even smaller cannabis world.

55:47BubblemanHe's a psychedelic wizard. He's literally the inventor of water hash bags.

55:54SpeakerI had this in my hand as you said that.

55:57BubblemanI'm not going to lie. Shout him out. Puff him down. Got your crystal. Dude, K. Morrow is always in...

56:10BubblemanHe has to know that he's invited to Hash Church every week. We'd hold a seat for Kenny, legitimately.

56:19SpeakerWait a minute. I thought we only had people on Hash Church that were really serious about Hashish. Oh my God. I'm just fucking with Kenny.

56:29BubblemanI know. It doesn't get much more serious than that.

56:34SpeakerNo, he's a serious, serious aficionado. Yeah. And researcher.

56:41BubblemanSo let's raise our cup to Kay as well. We'll raise our cup to one past legend and one surviving legend. I raise my cup to both of you guys here on Hash Church.

57:03BubblemanYes, you do. The group says, we love Kenny.

57:11BubblemanA patient's episode to discuss medicating more specifically. Patient's episode is a great idea.

57:22BubblemanBecause although I love the interview style of like one-on-one or two-on-one, you know, getting a person really to tell their story, there's something about getting five or six or seven people telling their story sort of simultaneously back and forth, and the way that weaves a real beautiful tapestry of Of what we're practicing here on Hash Church, radical openness.

57:42Etienne FontanBut how it crosses, you know, socioeconomic boundaries and different conditions and different, you know, I mean, you've got two patients here, myself, Todd, and I, you know, who are always here pretty much. I'm another patient. You as well, John? Yeah.

58:02BubblemanD420K doesn't talk about it much, but I think he's broken just as many bones as John, literally. I think he passed me. He might have passed you.

58:11SpeakerAren't you all better, John? You look all better. You can't come on. I wish I was better, but I'm definitely doing a lot better with the new surgery. You look a lot better. I feel fantastic. It's just like new life for me. You know, I've seen Johnny, I've seen so many people tell me, holy shit, Johnny looks fucking great. He looks like he gained six years on his fucking life, man, back.

58:39SpeakerLike, Johnny has made a huge difference from that operation, man. Good on you, Johnny. Well, thanks, guys. I mean, everybody that's always supporting me and being behind me with my use and talking about patient use and what I use for my pain and, you know, before and after. It's really, it's honoring to just be able to be able to experience what I went through and be able to share it with everybody and be able to talk about my experiences and stuff with everybody here.

59:07SpeakerIt's... It feels great. It feels humbling, too. I mean, I appreciate everybody in the industry and all the people that support one another, and it's really good to see how the industry and the people come together, and really it's... Thank you so much for joining us.

59:43SpeakerI've got, I broke my back, crushed three vertebrae, lost an inch and a half of height. I broke my neck a year later. I broke my jaw. I've got steel both sides of my face. I broke my wrist. My hands have been just destroyed from growing up in Prince George and playing hard and rough and tough. And I broke my arm a couple times and I fractured my leg going down a set of waterfalls when I was a kid on a tube that I thought I was Brave enough to do.

1:00:14SpeakerBut yeah, and lots of stretch and hurt and injuries, but I'm good. Did lots of, pretty much a year, two years of straight physiotherapy after the accidents and my breaks in my back and my neck. So when I broke my neck, I was in really good, good shape from the recovering from my broken back. And then back into the training again, and I'm really lucky to be walking around and riding my motorbike and doing what I get to do when I want, so.

1:00:45SpeakerOver how long of a period did this happen? The major breaks, the biggest ones, was about a three-year period. Because you have more breaks than the next five, People I know with breaks, to be honest. You know, we were sitting in Mark's place one time, a whole bunch of us, and the injuries, the one guy was run completely over with a compound. You know who that was?

1:01:14BubblemanNo. First of all, it was hilarious because there was John, and then there was you, who's bigger than John, and then there was my buddy, who was bigger than both of you.

1:01:27BubblemanThat was Romulan Joe, the original Romulan guy. And what was happening was John told his story. Oh, I fell 30 feet, blah, blah, blah. And then you were like, I got smoked on my motorcycle and dislocated my legs and broke my back and my jaw was... And then Joe was like, oh yeah? When I was a kid, a tractor rolled over on me and I broke every bone in my body.

1:01:49BubblemanAnd this was at my table and I shit you not, I swear there was another person too who had bad injuries at my table.

1:01:56SpeakerYeah. We're all talking about our cannabis use and we're all using concentrates and yeah, it was kind of... Well, you know, all those breaks, everything like that too, I did actually dislocate both my arms and both my legs out of the hip sockets in a motorcycle accident. I broke my neck on and broke my wrist on. It fucking hurt, man. Oh my God.

1:02:19BubblemanAnd that's what I'm saying. People don't even think you're hurt, dude. No one's ever told me, like, oh, you know, D looks great for having been crushed. No one thinks, like I'm telling you right now, people in the chat are like, What the fuck?

1:02:36Todd MccormickI don't know. He still looks older than his dad, bro.

1:02:39SpeakerHe still looks older.

1:02:41Todd MccormickI had a dump truck head on. Now I know why.

1:02:43SpeakerThat's the story of my dad, Todd. That's my stepdad, but I call him my dad proudly because he has been the guy that's raised me and given me my morals and my man honor type stuff. My man honor. He's only nine years older than me, man.

1:03:02Todd MccormickWell, now that you say that, it makes a lot more sense, because for a long time I was thinking, there's no way. But now I realize there was no way.

1:03:13BubblemanHere it is. What the fuck? Holy shit. Evil, evil, deem evil. Evil, deem evil.

1:03:24Todd MccormickAnd I really thought, I thought he was just the epitome of good health and old age. I really did. I was like, how could he be double his age? Now I know. Mystery solved. I appreciate you clearing that up because honestly it did confound me.

1:03:38SpeakerHe was pretty, he was smiling pretty hard when you were saying that last time. He was loving it.

1:03:43Todd MccormickYeah, a decade and some hair dye. I could see this being what the mystery really was. You got it.

1:03:49BubblemanYou got it. We're having a nice, relaxed hash church here today. A lot of people in the chat room right now just kind of talking about their own experiences and surgeries and accidents and whatnot. Yeah, it's crazy. You've got to be careful out there, people. Thank God for cannabis. You know, having seen that Prince died of a fentanyl overdose, an opioid overdose, and What a complete and total like just waste and loss of a talented human being and that's happening.

1:04:26BubblemanI guess to hundreds, if not thousands, if not tens of thousands of people around the world, I know here in BC it's really bad, it's a real problem, it's another problem, and it's not a fentanyl problem, it's a prohibition problem.

1:04:38Todd MccormickWell, it's an opiate problem, and you know what, this is one of the reasons why I wholeheartedly support every little inch we can get access-wise to cannabis, because, you know, I had an argument with Don Wershaft just the other day about Ohio, wish you'd passed it, because now it looks like they're not going to have either initiative on the ballot this year. So it's like, there you go.

1:04:58Todd MccormickAll this bullshit bravado about progress you're going to make, and then given the chance, nothing. Got nothing. Ohio's got nothing. They don't got six plants a household. They don't got legal medical use. They got nothing because of... It's not better. Do you know who it's better for? The assholes that are currently making money selling them pot in Ohio. That's who it's better for. People holding their breath waiting for the fucking sky to fall and, you know, just, you know, pinata to open and freedom everywhere are high.

1:05:28Todd MccormickAnd it sucks because how many people like Prince? I mean, that aren't talented multimillionaires that you're going to hear about, but how many millions of people are having to eat fucking pills and are suffering a similar fate? Yeah. Fuck pharmaceuticals. I hope everybody gets cannabis.

1:05:46SpeakerYou know what the fundamental problem is? That these people are concerned about who's going to make the profits from cannabis. Yes. And to be perfectly frank and honest, I don't care. Especially if you can grow a few plants at home. Yeah. 100%.

1:06:04Todd MccormickThe AMUA is going to have six plants a household, and while I certainly don't think six plants is anywhere near enough of anything, I just think it's like opening the door a little, and once that door opens just even an inch or a millimeter, it's done. It's done. It's going to blow open.

1:06:23SpeakerAlso, Todd, if you think about it, okay, you can have six plants. They're flowering away. Let's say you get three kilos from each one, okay? I'm from California. I could have said five kilos, but I didn't want to stretch it. Okay, so three kilos from each one. You flower those. You harvest them. And you've got a friend down the street who doesn't grow marijuana but doesn't mind you starting six additional ones there.

1:06:56SpeakerSo you immediately put them in. You've got six more flowering for three months. You cut those. You could do that four times a year.

1:07:05Todd MccormickCan I just point someone out? Do you know how fucking insane prohibition, it will be pointless for cops to go around? They won't have the resources. They won't have the time in the day to go around and start estimating. Are there only six plants in everybody's yard?

1:07:18SpeakerThey're after that seventh plant, Todd, for sure. And they'll spend billions to catch that one plant.

1:07:26Todd MccormickYeah, but you know what? See, in the 80s and 90s, they could prosecute. You're obviously right, Todd. Of course. And I agree with you. But in the 80s and 90s, they could prosecute people like me. Now I think that game is over. There's too many people in the voting pool that will not vote to put people in jail for growing pot or selling pot or smoking pot.

1:07:47Todd MccormickI think that's the end of prohibition at that. When they can't prosecute us, you know, they really got nothing. Their threats are empty at that point.

1:07:55BubblemanDavid T says, what the fuck is Sam growing?

1:08:02BubblemanThree kilos.

1:08:03SpeakerWell, we are talking about only seven plants, right? Well, see, this is the thing. No, that's why I said seven.

1:08:12Todd MccormickSeth, and I love it. You know what, though? Technically, it's still game on for everybody medical because these laws don't change. So if you want to go for it and grow medical, I mean, you're still in the same position you're in now. This is only going to legalize it for people that don't have a medical card and that just don't have a doctor.

1:08:29SpeakerAnd the truth of it is the vast majority of California marijuana smokers are not medical users, even if they are on paper.

1:08:40Todd MccormickYou know what, though, not to be rude, look, everybody that goes in their doctor's office privately and says, I'm feeling depressed, can I get on Prozac, is a medical user of Prozac, in a sense. They're trying to deal with whatever it is they're dealing with, and I believe that. I truly believe in my heart that there are millions of people in this planet... If not hundreds of millions of people that just smoke a joint and don't go see their doctor and take a deep breath and go to home and deal with their wife and their kids and their life, and they don't resort to pharmaceutical solutions because they got some herb.

1:09:12SpeakerThat could well be, Todd, but meanwhile, I still think there's way more recreational smokers than medical smokers. Even if some of those recreational smokers, I mean, if they're smoking a joint after work just to relax and chill out, I mean... You have to cut a line. Is that medical or is that recreational? It's sort of both.

1:09:35Todd MccormickIt is sort of both. I completely concur. I think you're absolutely right. And I think that what bothers me is that we...

1:09:41SpeakerI think we both agree what we want to do is extend the rights that medical users have to recreational users.

1:09:47Todd MccormickRight. And to me it's almost offensive now that we have to show paperwork to justify smoking a harmless, scientifically proven harmless plant.

1:09:58SpeakerIt's all medical. It's all recreational. It's cannabis. We should all consume it. It's good for us. We have these receptors in our brain that react to it.

1:10:08Etienne FontanWell, we have a full endocannabinoid system that needs to be accessed that is completely malnourished throughout the entire U.S., you know, and Canada as well, all across the world. So, yes, we need to have access, but, you know, the big fear is, you know, people are starting to talk, well, why should you care about, you know, California, et cetera, et cetera, but somebody brought up a very interesting point is that we already lost the last one, okay?

1:10:33Etienne FontanSo if we lose the second one here in California... Thank you for joining us. We'll be right back.

1:11:05SpeakerAnd the flip side of that is if it wins, it'll send a message to the entire world.

1:11:13Todd MccormickYou know guys, I think there's no way it's not going to win because there's been all these numbers coming in from all these states around us and now even the Republicans that were on the fence about it being a good idea fiscally are looking at it with green in their eyes. You know, they want the money for their communities, they want the money for their state, they want to boast about these profits coming from their communities just like they're watching them come in from Washington and Colorado and the places that have already passed it.

1:11:44BubblemanYeah, it'll be interesting to see when it plays out. How long do you guys have for that in California? Like, is it in the next six months or something?

1:11:49Etienne FontanIt's November. November, the election dates. Yep, the presidential election. So I'll go for our presidential election as well as for states, in that case, California. I do believe Michigan is on as well, and other states for medical. Sands, Ohio, apparently. But I know, I think they're going for legalization in Maine as well.

1:12:11SpeakerHmm.

1:12:14BubblemanWell, good on them. Can't wait to see every state.

1:12:17Etienne FontanIt'll be the 8th of November this year. Yep. And Nevada as well is going for it, so there's quite a few states that have things going and ongoing, because I do believe that the initiative has to be in, you know, by now, to be on the ballot. And it just made the ballot, Alma just made the ballot officially this week, so it will be on the ballot in November.

1:12:43Etienne FontanAnd speaking of in California here, we got really complacent here lately, and the legislature of California just snuck in a 15, 1-5, a 15% tax on medical cannabis. So it is in, passed the Senate by a large majority, now it's on to the Assembly. If it passes the Assembly, then my patients are going to have to pay nearly 30% in taxes on medical cannabis now. So already in the city of Berkeley, we pay 2.5% of wholesale, 2.5% retail.

1:13:17Etienne FontanThen they have a 9% over-the-counter retail sales. Then you're now going to have a 15% tax. Now supposedly with AMA, if you're a medical patient, it's going to take away the sales tax, but unfortunately it's not going to take away this new 15% if it's actually passed. So if you're here in California... When you're watching Hash Church, please call your assembly member and tell them you do not want a 15% tax on your medicine.

1:13:48Etienne FontanEveryone is going to have to pay it and the State Board of Equalization, as they stated, is our money. We're only coming to get it and you're only holding it for us. So unless you want to pay more taxation in California, call your assembly person and tell them and tell your family members, put it on your Facebook, spread it around, get active, spread your voice quickly because this is happening this week.

1:14:09Etienne FontanIf not, you're going to be paying for it.

1:14:12SpeakerOut of curiosity, do you know what they plan to spend the raised taxes on?

1:14:17Etienne FontanA lot of that stuff is muddled as well as they won't tell us until it's actually passed.

1:14:27SpeakerI'm absolutely against it, but I'm kind of curious if they were going to spend it on more drug-sniffing dogs or, you know.

1:14:34BubblemanProbably hookers and blow. If I were a betting man.

1:14:39Etienne FontanWell, let's hope people will actually reach out and educate their friends and family members and kind of have them all call the assembly members and tell them no, that they don't want this to pass. Otherwise, you don't complain. We give you your opportunity to do something and this is your chance to actually get active and get involved. So look it up, get involved.

1:14:59Todd MccormickIt's SB 987. There it is. SB 987, 15% medical marijuana tax.

1:15:07Etienne FontanSo tell people you do not want that to pass and you do not support it and tell them to do not support it. Otherwise, it will pass.

1:15:15Todd MccormickCan you point out there's already a 10% sales tax on the sale of cannabis and in some places like Berkeley there's an additional 5% imposed by the locals. So there's already a 15% tax on cannabis in some places already right now. So this will be in addition to that the state tax and the local Berkeley tax. So this would be a 30% tax. There's nothing else that carries the syntax.

1:15:43Todd MccormickNot alcohol, not tobacco, not sugar water, not nothing. And for them to impose it on us is immoral on every level.

1:15:53BubblemanYeah, it seems like a bit of a money grab. I mean, in reality, what really should be happening is the insurance companies should be covering the majority of these costs, at least when it's for medicine.

1:16:04Etienne FontanThe insurance has nothing to do with medical cannabis, and they don't want anything to do with medical cannabis. The last thing they want me to do is become a paper pusher for them. I mean, they've been staunch prohibitionists pushing against us, so there's no way they want to see us take any type of step forward. We don't have the logic intelligence that Canada has where we actually take proper steps.

1:16:26Etienne FontanWe impede medical access here in the United States at every access point possible, even with an HMO or even with the best coverage. So there is no medical person that I know that comes to me that actually uses any type of insurance. It's still out of pocket. But the higher tax rate is over in Oakland. I think there's higher in other cities that have actually 10% taxes.

1:16:54Etienne FontanSan Jose also has a high taxation.

1:16:57Todd MccormickThe conversation around that we really need to not just fight for legality, we have to fight for equal rights because in some ways they don't have a right to do to us what they're not doing to any other industry. That's, I guess, my whole point.

1:17:13Etienne FontanAnd they feel emboldened, too, because we've been the unfortunate, you know, pardon the expression, redheaded stepchild, so it's easy for us to be, you know, the new kicking post. Unfortunately, they're going to tax quite a few businesses out of reality, and it has been a frustration for us because, again, we were the test case for the state when it came to actually testing, you know, taxing medical cannabis, and we thought it shouldn't be taxed.

1:17:41Etienne FontanAnd now for these politicians to use, as I call them, false prohibition lenses on their glasses, they're looking through these green lenses thinking that everything is going to stay at this particular taxation. Thank you for joining us.

1:18:27Todd MccormickIt's not useless in a sense. I mean, if you go back to looking at Jack Herra's own initiative back 20 years ago when he wrote it, he put a tax on every ounce of $10 because at the time a good ounce of bud was $400 and he thought $10 was not a lot. You know, $160 per pound. And now I'm looking at that thinking, well, when the ounce costs $15, let's say like Rick Doblin was talking, that $10, it's going to feel like an awful lot of money.

1:19:00Todd MccormickYou know, and I think that they're not really taking into consideration, you know, the true price drops that we're going to get. And, you know, so this is still something people can fight, this SB 987. It actually passed the Senate, and it goes on to the Assembly now. And I posted the link in HashChurch where people can actually write and email the Senator Mike McGuire that's actually proposing this.

1:19:25Todd MccormickAnd, you know, I think everybody should just demand equal rights. Why are we being treated like any other industry, you know?

1:19:34SpeakerIn the Netherlands, several of the insurance companies do pay for medical marijuana that you pick up in the Apple Tech from Bedricon.

1:19:45JohnnyAnd I believe, according to our constitution with the way that works with the 10th Amendment giving states the public safety... They can't actually tax medicine from what I read before when I was in Colorado looking at it. They don't tax medicine. So any tax on actual medicine to a patient is not... Take it up with the State Board of Equalization.

1:20:10Etienne FontanI fought it for seven years, spent nearly ungodly figures of money trying to fight it, even having the former head of the State Board of Equalization as my lead counsel. And in the end, they still said, You're going down. We're going to tax. I agree with you. And in principle, 100%. But when the tax man says, I'm taking my money and you're going to give it to me, fuck you.

1:20:33Etienne FontanYou've got no choice.

1:20:35JohnnyYeah, no, I know.

1:20:37Todd MccormickAnd I think it's different from state to state. Like here in California, 100% orange juice is not taxable, but concentrate orange juice is taxed. So you get into these, you know, and under that I always felt like, well, then whole raw cannabis should not be taxed because it is like the orange. But as soon as you, you know, turn it into hash or make an edible, yeah, it's taxed under the same standards.

1:21:01Etienne FontanYeah, it might be different in Colorado, Tony, because again, it's greater in what Todd says, different states, different state constitutions on what things can do. But, you know, a lot of these other states are looking at, you know, the taxation that states are actually receiving and looking at it. You know, currently, so it'll be interesting to see as each state comes online because, again, we still don't have banks.

1:21:23Etienne FontanAs much as we do all that, we still don't have banks. And no matter what state you're in, you still don't have a bank. And that's a huge frustration and a huge...

1:21:37Etienne FontanLiability because somebody is going to, the worst case scenario is going to happen and apparently for the actual laws to change regarding that and I would hate to see somebody lose their life to actually cause the change of the banking laws because for all these businesses that are out there and are growing in all these other states, Thank you for joining us.

1:22:23Etienne FontanIt sucks.

1:22:24Mark GrissmanATN, is credit unions a temporary solution to that problem?

1:22:29Etienne FontanAnybody who's receiving money from the FDIC, good luck. They will call you and tell you no. You can hide as best as you can, and people have, but no. Anything that is federally insured, you cannot get into.

1:22:44Mark GrissmanRight, so that's the distinction between a bank and a credit union, right? A credit union isn't necessarily federally insured.

1:22:49SpeakerThe majority of them are not FDIC.

1:22:52Mark GrissmanThat's correct, but you can still basically get money into the financial system through financial transactions at a credit union.

1:23:00Etienne FontanWell, they do and some try until they actually start going through and ask you and find out what you do and then they're told to purge. See what happens is they have the local prosecutors send out letters when they start to see things happen within their jurisdiction and they send notes to the higher ups in the banks and then the banks do an in Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:23:51JohnnyThank you for joining us.

1:24:14Todd MccormickBanking will be the next step, you know. And the only other thing I have to say with credit unions, though, guys, is go look up the Rhode Island banking crisis of 1991, because all of us people in Rhode Island woke up to 45 credit unions closing that did not have FDIC insurance. And I had two bank accounts at the time, both of which were frozen. Assets were not anything you could get at.

1:24:37Todd MccormickAnd it was a nightmare. I don't know. It changed my faith in banks, to be quite honest with you both.

1:24:46Etienne FontanWell, why am I saying banks is because of this taxation. With this taxation, they want us to go pay these taxes, but I can't pay these taxes without a bank, which means... I have to go and other people have to physically go risk their own selves taking the money to the tax man in cash and that's bullshit. You know, we should be able to have armored cars or at least have money transfers and things like that as opposed to having to already, the risks we already take have to take other risks on top of that.

1:25:15BubblemanWell, and you should have full integration with the e-commerce. You should be able to take all the Apple Pay and credit cards and everything, like not have to even deal with cash all the time, like

1:25:25JohnnyThat would be nice.

1:25:27BubblemanYeah.

1:25:27JohnnyI think there's like called racketeering and some other things. Todd might want to chime in on what the legal.

1:25:33Todd MccormickDon't forget. This is called regular commerce. I mean, and that's what we all really have to start understanding is we really are now fighting a civil rights and equal rights game. This is not just about can I have my pot, I'm sick, I have cancer, stop beating me. This is about no, treat me equally. How have you been treating the tobacco producers? That really depends on the alcohol distributors.

1:25:57SpeakerIt really depends on who the attorney general is. Because if they want to be really dickwads and say Trump was president and his projected attorney general, he said he'd go after it.

1:26:12Todd MccormickWell, truthfully, this is why I think people, especially in the United States right now, should be supporting guys like Bernie Sanders, the only candidate up there saying that he would de-schedule cannabis. He would treat it like any other thing. I mean, there are people that know the truth and then all the corporations fucking lackeys. That are still making money off the status quo. And I dare I say that's what we've been fighting this whole fucking time are people that are making money the way it is.

1:26:37Todd MccormickAnd now that includes pot doctors, pot clubs, and pot growers because they don't want to see legalization either.

1:26:46SpeakerI think the worst is cannabis magazines. They're the biggest profiteers, right? High Times? No, no, I was thinking of XXX.

1:26:56Todd MccormickOh yeah, it's all about disseminating money. It is funny though, you look at High Times and everybody gives them the beacon of greatness and what have they, have they ever thrown down for an initiative? Have they ever supported anything other than themselves, ever?

1:27:13Todd MccormickI mean, and I say that like Sean Parker's coming in, this big guy, but how long has High Times been a multi-millionaire? They've never, not one initiative that I know of, and correct me if I'm wrong.

1:27:25Mark GrissmanThey started out as a cocaine magazine.

1:27:27Etienne FontanRight, well, or normal. The great national organization for the fall of marijuana laws, where have they been? They haven't run an initiative, and they haven't been around since the 70s.

1:27:36SpeakerThey didn't start as a cocaine magazine. They started as a pop magazine and got into coke when everybody else did.

1:27:44Todd MccormickYeah, over big piles. But regardless, I mean, they've made a ton of money off of cannabis the past 20 plus years. Cannabis cups, you know, going to Amsterdam, the whole industry, hemp times, not one dollar has gone into any progressive social change. I mean, and I'm not saying that companies have to be obligated to spend their money any way they want to, but we've all sat around and given our time to this industry, really just given our time to this industry, whereas other companies have come in and made a ton of money and they don't give any of their effort to helping make the world a better place.

1:28:19Todd MccormickThey're just making money off the status quo.

1:28:23SpeakerI don't think they're stone cold. It's more gray than white and black. I mean, they do support cannabis, but yeah, they don't do it economically.

1:28:37Todd MccormickCome on, you see Michael Kennedy's Long Island Mansions. I mean, the guy was an obnoxious fucking New York attorney.

1:28:43SpeakerNo, I agree with you. I can't disagree with you. Right. But at the same time, they, yeah...

1:28:53BubblemanIt's what we have. Well, you know what? It was pretty much high times that inspired Mark to do Cannabis Culture and just make it like the exact opposite. Just be like, I'll use this magazine to make an enormous amount of profits, and then I'll just give it all away to the Thank you for joining us.

1:29:31BubblemanIt was in between the magazine that it would become and sort of one of the inspirations locally that was operated by a Jamaican guy by the name of Brother Leroy. And he had a little tiny guide thing that was like the Hemp Times, I think it was called. And it was just a little sort of pamphlet with like 10 or 15 pages and it had little articles in it and different places where you could find the pot community in Vancouver.

1:29:57BubblemanIt was really cool, and that's, you know, it was made to be a full-size magazine, the first canvas in Canada.

1:30:03SpeakerHere's one of the first kind of issues in the days from it.

1:30:08BubblemanYep, yep, there was earlier ones, even earlier than that, that didn't even, that one actually looked more like a magazine, even pre that one too. It's a paper cover, and it looks really more like what it is, which is photocopies of the I guess how they created it. I'm sure you probably have the original one there too. Or Dana Larson who I invited in today. Yep.

1:30:33SpeakerOne of the earlier copies just right beside me. I know I've got a few more downstairs. I've been collecting this stuff for years. I've got my own mini museum. I've got little bits and pieces everywhere. It's been a big part of my life and my culture. It's always good to have this stuff around.

1:30:52Todd MccormickI think we all should start like we as a community that is really do have to look at changing federal law though. I mean this is something that absolutely positively has to happen whereas the states are helping us, the federal government has to come around and accept the science and make the scheduling changes and the federal guidelines changes. Thank you for watching.

1:31:30Todd MccormickThank you for joining us.

1:31:46Todd MccormickAnd our elected politicians on a federal level, really that's what we have to do. I mean, we as a community, that is. You know, I thought before, I wish I had the cash I would send every sitting member of Congress and emperor wears no clothes and a copy of the union. Well, now the culture high too, but, you know, any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

1:32:10BubblemanWell, you know what? It has been a huge failure, the war on drugs, from our perspective. But I guess if you look at it from their perspective, they probably think of it as a huge success. They created a giant prison complex. They have more control over an alternative group of people that they probably would like. I don't know. It just seems like, from their perspective, it's been successful, just destroying lives, stealing people's livelihoods right out from under them.

1:32:39BubblemanBreaking up families, jailing people, getting paid for those people through subsidies that are in prison. Like it's all so corrupt and insane that how could anyone even ever create such a thing?

1:32:53Todd MccormickThe drug war has made a lot of people a lot of money. You know, this is the same with the military industrial complex in America right now. This money doesn't vaporize. It goes into the pockets of the people that own the armament companies that make all the shit. The NRA and the fucking government is promoting. I mean, this is why I kind of despise the stuff, the toys I grew up with as an adult I rejected because I felt like it was just a manipulative way of trying to own me with my little toy soldiers and my tanks and, you know, and I'm so glad I got weed and I could think for myself and see things in a very different way and move away from all of that manipulation.

1:33:33Todd MccormickI think cannabis is such an emancipator. It's understated what it's done for freeing the cognitive liberty of humanity around the world.

1:33:45BubblemanAnd look at how hard they prohibit it. It shows obvious that that is a truth. And the truths go even deeper than that. It's so multi-dimensional, the amount of truths there are with cannabis and what it can open and unlock in you that it's just... It never ceases to amaze me. It just constantly gets more ridiculous. I'm sure in 20 years we'll be like, actually, did you know that cannabis was responsible for the creation of the entire universe?

1:34:15BubblemanCannabis is God!

1:34:18Todd MccormickYeah, huge surprise. Well, it doesn't get said much, but you know what? When I walked through Ben's Barcelona Museum, one of the things I thought was, you know, cannabis is responsible for the cultural evolution of humanity. When you look at the invention of paper and it giving us the ability to communicate, and then you're looking at clothing, and you're looking at ropes, and sails, and maps, and books, and it's unbelievable what cannabis... Or music.

1:34:44Etienne FontanLook at all the music cannabis has inspired. Absolutely.

1:34:48Todd MccormickSay that again, ATN?

1:34:50Etienne FontanLook at all the music that cannabis has inspired.

1:34:53Todd MccormickAbsolutely. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, a lot of music too. I mean, and nothing not to discredit music at all, but like when you think of humanity getting the ability to wear clothes and write letters and then build ships and sail around and meet each other, this is all rooted in the cannabis plant. It wasn't cotton sales. It wasn't, you know, tree paper making, you know, our notes back then.

1:35:20Todd MccormickIt was all going back to cannabis being the origin plant of use of these things. Fucking epic, really. Cannabis, there should be big statues to cannabis in every city because of the gifts it's given to humanity and our ability to evolve around it.

1:35:40BubblemanIt's a good one for sure. It sure wouldn't be a hard question if I asked the panel, if you were stuck on an island and you could only have one plant, would it be the flax plant or would it be the cannabis plant? I think I know the answer. With that said, I think it's time, as Baba Rob would say, to blow smoke towards the Vatican. All around.

1:36:11SpeakerBong, Rip, Mother Lovers. Mother Lover. I love my mother. I love my hash. I love mine too. I love the moms all around the world.

1:36:25Etienne FontanBut do you love your mom's hash?

1:36:28SpeakerI wish. That would have been cool.

1:36:35SpeakerI don't know anybody's mom who makes hash.

1:36:38Etienne FontanYeah, I don't know anyone's mom saying, hey Todd, your mom ever make hash?

1:36:41BubblemanI taught my mom how to make hash, and she made the most sickest full melt. You guys would have been so friggin' impressed. She did it only one time. I didn't do it four, she did it. We called it Pauly's Full Melt, and it was absolute fire. Shout out to Paulette for, you know, the first and only time you ever made bubble. You produced the fire, so good on you.

1:37:06SpeakerAnd was that water hash or dry set?

1:37:09BubblemanOh, that was water hash.

1:37:15Etienne FontanSo, Todd, you didn't answer. Did your mom ever make hash? No, my mom had a lot of hash though.

1:37:20Todd MccormickMy mom is the one who told me how to actually pick quality hash. She was my initial hash teacher. Because I brought hash home and she didn't believe I had hash and then she looked at it and was like, oh yeah, it's pretty good hash.

1:37:36BubblemanLove the mom. Shout out to High Integrity Glass Art in the room, in the chat room right now, brother. Hope all is well right now.

1:37:46Etienne FontanWell, Jen Doe's a mom. She makes hash, so we know her.

1:37:49BubblemanI invited her in today. I sent out the link, actually, to Hillary. I sent it out to Jen Doe. I actually sent it out to Samantha Elvey, one of our past guests on Hash Church. She used to come on a bit. I wanted to find out how she was doing.

1:38:05SpeakerThere's, like, not a cloud in the sky, and I think all the ladies are outside sun tanning on a beach.

1:38:13SpeakerAt least here in BC. It's gorgeous outside. It must be clear all the way to Amsterdam. It's super toasty. Not a cloud in the sky. It's sunny blue.

1:38:23BubblemanIt's a beautiful day here and I'm not going to lie, my boat is finally on the dock. After going and grabbing it over a month ago and letting it sit on my front yard for a month, I put it in the water the other day and, you know, boating is a funny thing. It can drive you nuts. It is truly break out another thousand or in the ocean's case it could be break out another 10,000.

1:38:45BubblemanBut boats truly are medicinal in the sense of how they detach you from the land and you're just out in this vessel floating on the ocean. An ocean that, you know, we have humpback whales or blue whales and killer whales, dolphins, Sea Lions, Seals, like there's a lot of bigger creatures in this ocean out here. When you're on the boat, you can see these things. It happens and it's just an absolute, such an amazing blessing to just be able to hang out on the boat for an hour or two at a time.

1:39:21BubblemanIt's truly why we spend the insane money we spend because even if you have a frigging little aluminum boat with a five horsepower motor, you're still spending money on that thing.

1:39:33SpeakerI've got an Argo with an outboard motor and I'm thinking I'm going to take it to the lake.

1:39:38BubblemanI've been in your Argo with the outboard motor while we were tearing through the forest and then just come right out into the marsh, drive through the marsh. I'm like, dude, you might get stuck. And then all of a sudden it's like we're floating and this little motor is going. It's pretty trippy. John's Argo is maybe the trippiest like off-road sort of thing that you could ever, That you could ever really do, I think, potentially.

1:40:03SpeakerThe Argo is frightening. It was fun. But I was just thinking the boat, and I thought, you know what, I want to go on a boat, and I was like, wait a second, I got an outboard motor.

1:40:13BubblemanI'll tell you one thing, dude. Your Argo potentially was the worst toy you should have been playing with back when you were told. Like this guy would go, he takes his Argo to camping with me. I bring him to my camp with all these people that I know. He shows up with the Argo. He's given everyone Argo rides for hours. Hours. He's ripping through the forest and it's going up and down and it's a super traumatic experience if you've never been on one.

1:40:43BubblemanYou're banging around and there's really nothing to hold on to. And man, how long were you crippled after that?

1:40:49SpeakerA couple weeks recovery. That was like three, four years ago so I was doing pretty good back then. It was a lot of fun. Oh, man, it was fun. Extreme Argo Adventure with Bubble Men. That is the video on YouTube, and it is epic. That's right.

1:41:07BubblemanWe have an Argo video. That's right.

1:41:10SpeakerThat's right. Extreme Argo Adventure. So look that up, guys. You'll actually have a laugh.

1:41:16BubblemanYeah, it's a good one for sure. That thing is traumatic. I thought sledding was traumatic, but that thing's traumatic.

1:41:23SpeakerWell, it's fun. It's the scariest you'll ever be at five miles an hour.

1:41:27BubblemanYeah, it only goes like four or five kilometers an hour and it's terrifying.

1:41:32SpeakerIt's the 8x8 Argo with the eight wheels and I got a steel track on it so it pretty much is a tank. It goes anywhere.

1:41:40BubblemanI have a new game. When anyone on the panel like touches their nose or like yawns, I click the camera to show them doing that. I'm just joking.

1:41:53JohnnyI've been hitting like, you know, massive amount of hasher in the background while you guys are all chatting, so I just hit some like of this Leroy Cookies, I just finished it up, just Leroy Cookies Turf Rise, and it's really heavy, like it immediately makes you tired, and I was amped up and I've had coffee, and I apologize, I'm

1:42:22SpeakerDon't apologize.

1:42:23JohnnyI thought this was hashed, so I just got carried away, I guess, in the background.

1:42:32BubblemanWell, here's a nice story. Recently I was at my, well, a couple of months ago I was at my store, and I was in the back having some meetings, and then those meetings ended. And there was a gentleman in the front. I have kind of a little storefront. But we keep the door locked. We don't operate it as a storefront. But you're able to come and make a reservation, not reservations, but like you can come and make an appointment and look in the storefront if you want or just come and knock on the door during business hours.

1:43:00BubblemanAnyway, this gentleman was out in the room and he saw me puffing actually. And we started talking so I invited him into the back for a little puff and he was like a BHO guy. He was learning about water hash, so I had full melt on me, I had some dry sift, I had some rosin, I smoked the gamut with this guy, utterly destroyed him, sent him on his way.

1:43:22BubblemanThe next time I go to my office, there's a handwritten letter from this guy saying how much I changed his life, how he bought dry sift screens the next day he came back and bought these screens, and then he brought me dry sift. And I'll tell you man, for this guy's first dry sift, this shit is incredible. Like six star, melts right through the screen, turns to liquid, and has a beautiful bouquet that almost only Dry Sift can have.

1:43:50BubblemanIt's so just on point with, I guarantee you, the flower that this guy is making.

1:43:59SpeakerThat's what we want to hear.

1:44:00JohnnyWell, and I'm going to say, the other day I was like, I have this little Apple TV thing It's the first time I ever got any kind of cable. I got DirecTV because they blend your phone bill now with the cable and they gave me like unlimited North America everything. But I saw, I didn't realize this, but it was like I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, I'm hooked up to Netflix and all this different stuff on there and then there's YouTube.

1:44:29JohnnyAnd it's just like the light bulb that goes off with technology when you realize you can pull up YouTube and watch your Bubble Man show Thank you for watching.

1:44:56BubblemanI'm all over that as a photographer. Apple TV allowed me to project my photos through slideshows onto the TV, so it's great.

1:45:05JohnnyYeah, I was just like, wow. Now I get it. I was like, this is what everybody else is watching. So I saw Ash Church was on there, and it was easy to pull up some of your other videos I was looking at just because I have this SIFT box, this thing that you sent out. Let me show you this thing. I wanted to learn how to use it.

1:45:29JohnnySo I have it on my, now I have it on my TV. I just pulled up the, I just pulled up the YouTube and it was just like a good way to have a reference, you know? I don't know.

1:45:46BubblemanI'd love to have my mic unmuted, but my daughter's screaming in the background and I'd rather not record it on Hash Church, so someone else will have to talk right now. Johnny's looking like he's ready.

1:45:55Mark GrissmanI have a thing I want to ask Todd. Todd, did you see the list of inmates that Obama commuted this week? And again, the lack of, you know, mostly it's crack and cocaine and methamphetamine dealers. There's one guy who had a marijuana offense in there. It seems ridiculous. It seems like when he goes to commute and give clemency to To guys, it's not for cannabis. It seems to always be centered around these Schedule II drugs.

1:46:31Todd MccormickWell, I can't say it's around the scheduling, I'm sure. I mean, you know, after going through the five-year tour of the federal prison system, I can say, man, sadly, there are a lot of people that are locked up for a god-awful amount of time for things other than cannabis that I may not take, but I don't really think should be illegal. And I was more upset about the limited amount of...

1:46:58Todd Mccormickof sentences that he actually commuted and the other point that really hurt me was that you know it's something he did So, so far, Obama has pardoned more people than the past seven presidents combined.

1:47:13Mark GrissmanCombined, yeah, 343 total, I think.

1:47:15Todd MccormickIt's hard to say that the guy's not trying. Obviously, seven times, all seven, last seven presidents haven't done as many as he's done. So, okay, that to me is a great start. But, you know, I think where my anger is coming from, in a sense, is bigger is that, you know, When the drug war was going on in these sentences, these guys were locked up in the 80s for life sentences for powder cocaine and crack and stuff.

1:47:40Todd MccormickWe didn't have smartphones. We didn't know all of what we know now. And now that we do, shouldn't we hold the federal government and the sentencing guidelines and the Bureau of Prisons and the Justice Department and the prosecutors to a whole new level of expectation? Now that we're all so well-informed about the reality of these things, and shouldn't it be a consensus and a democracy that we will no longer tolerate this abuse of justice?

1:48:09Todd MccormickAnd, you know, I would like to see a few more, you know, zeros on the amount of people that Obama's really releasing from these prisons. You know, the media always points out that we have, you know, a quarter of the world's prisoners. And the truth is, is a lot of these people, a lot of our neighbors were not locked up for being violent. They were locked up for breaking the drug war, the drug laws.

1:48:33Todd MccormickAnd it's just a war on some drugs. So it's a hypocritical, bigoted war that really we have to rethink. And the Global Commission on Drug Policy Thank you for joining us.

1:49:05Todd MccormickCrazy guy like Bernie Sanders who's making a ton of sense and fucking maybe end the war on drugs, maybe de-schedule cannabis, maybe change this whole fucked up system that I don't see changing under any of the other assholes because they're all part of the problem. So I don't want to bag on Obama because I think he's done more than the last seven presidents combined to try to reverse some of the fucked up situations that we're facing as prisoners in our own country.

1:49:37Todd MccormickYeah, I hope more can be done. You know, that's kind of how I feel about it. I was reading it, too, and I was just more astonished that he'd done more than seven times, more than the SAS seven presidents combined.

1:49:48Mark GrissmanWell, that said, they have over 9,000 requests for clemency. At the Department of Justice now. So the fact that he is...

1:50:14Todd MccormickAnd it's not because of terrorism. It's not because of some Joe's robbing a bank. It's because of bad drug laws. And I think that a lot of our resources are wasted with these drug wars now that we're starting to see other problems. Terrorism, the mall blowing up, fuck, that's a problem. But if you're busy using the two cops you have to chase around some kid with a bag of weed and another with a sheet of acid, we're screwed collectively.

1:50:44Todd MccormickSo I hope this all gets rethought and I hope the drug war gets kicked out and I hope drugs get regulated to a degree. I don't think all drugs should be legal. I don't think that little backyard meth cooks should be allowed to whip up whatever they want and sell it to their local neighbor's kid. I certainly don't think that should be reality. I think also if you create a system where drugs are legally available, there won't be a need for people to counterfeit what is otherwise cheap and, you know, pure sources of whatever garbage it is they want.

1:51:17Todd MccormickYou know, from heroin to fucking tobacco. None of which I'd use. You know what I mean? But, hey, what are we going to do? Start taking away people's tobacco because they can't do it themselves?

1:51:31BubblemanI wouldn't mind putting them in a little room with some exhaust fans going and me not in that little room, but yeah, you gotta have your choices.

1:51:40Todd MccormickWell, you know, to me, it's an American thing on a lot of levels, because when Columbus landed here, he found a plant that he didn't know existed, which was tobacco, and he couldn't find the plant cannabis that was responsible for his ropes, his sails, his cloths, his maps, his Bibles, and everything else he needed. So, tobacco was a huge... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:52:35JohnnyFire in the hole. I just been, I don't want to have to plug in another thing. Everything around me is plugged in. I just wanted to go analog, you know.

1:52:44SpeakerYeah.

1:52:45JohnnyAnd I find that the taste is really good on a big course like that when I do a little bit of this stuff. Just pour it in. You guys going to watch me or you going to join me? I mean, D420. I think I'm going to join you. D420, where you at? He's like slumped over in his chair. Yeah. His head's all leaned back. Well, now that we know his full story.

1:53:11SpeakerMy dad showed up.

1:53:14JohnnyNice. Double dip. Double dip. I'm going to just drip. Instead of a double dip, I'm just going to drip it.

1:53:28JohnnyThis is how you clean your... The end of it.

1:53:31BubblemanThat looks like it's not moving very fast, but I guess the glass will heat up a bit if you just drop it right into the trough.

1:53:39Etienne FontanNice yawn speak, Bubble Man. That was well recovered. Here we go.

1:53:44SpeakerYou like that? Dippin'. Rippin'. Ball rippin'.

1:53:51JohnnyHere it comes.

1:54:00SpeakerJohnny! Ripping the ball rig. Here it comes. Come on, Drip Drip. And we got the rosin and the sift with the terp and then back into the bubble. That's a triple dip. That was a quadruple dip because I had that quadruple dip. A quad dip. A quad factor. You can feel the turb hit in the beginning and then it goes through the dry stuff and then the bubble and then the rosin.

1:54:35JohnnyWow. So this little thing, like, the little vial fits perfectly in my shovel and it doesn't fall out and it just melts everything in there. There's some nice bubble right there.

1:54:45BubblemanMaybe we can get quartz jars that you fill and that just insert into a special... You know, kind of like that, but with a little less of that sort of that back and forth things making me nervous.

1:54:57JohnnyWell, it can't come out. It's positioned and it just like, it's amazing because it just warms up and it just drips right onto the shovel. It's like a, imagine when you were like a kid and you were playing with the Tonker toy.

1:55:09BubblemanSomeone will have a new name for it tomorrow with the word tech at the end of that name and they'll start the hashtag and it'll be theirs. They'll fight with you three years from now and be like, dude, I started that hashtag, bro.

1:55:22SpeakerDone. Hoss Church Man recorded history. I just did it. Hoss Church 89. Check it out.

1:55:30BubblemanHoss Church 90 next week. Excited for Hoss Church 90. Are we going to get the Bizarre Brothers in here? Maybe Jordan too?

1:55:38JohnnyTony? Yeah, we could definitely get them in. I'm going to try to do them and I guess I'll try to do... We'll see. A couple guests.

1:55:50BubblemanAbsolutely.

1:55:51JohnnyGrip Tech, Bobble Tech, Ninja Tech, Poor Tech, Shoulder Tech, Vile Tech, Gab Tech, Field Tech, Field Tech, Field Tech, Field Tech, Field Tech,

1:56:21Etienne FontanHashtag tech. So what's everybody smoking on right now? What are you guys toking on? Beautiful rosin.

1:56:31SpeakerThen I have this amazing sift. Followed by this really good bubble hash.

1:56:41SpeakerThen I got some more sift. With, of course, some turps.

1:56:50JohnnyThat was one hit? That was one hit? That was one hit.

1:56:56SpeakerThe way the flavors hit. Now I'm dabbing at like, I'm at 610, so I'm a little bit lower, but I like a little bit hotter, but that was tasty.

1:57:07Etienne FontanWhat are you toasting on there, D?

1:57:10SpeakerWell, I've got one rig set up at 525 for some real low temp terp dips. And some West Coast Concentrate Boys water hash. Some of this hybrid extracts that was given to me at the Toronto Expo. And some of this lemon kush or something like that. They've got some very nice gear all over the place. And it dipped into the Red Congolese. So I might as well dip it up and do it.

1:57:45SpeakerQuad factor it like Johnny, because that's just... I'm on the third pull right now, Rossin. Just the way we roll.

1:57:52BubblemanAre we Terp Dippin? Bond Dippin? Double Dippin? Quadruple Dippin? Quadruple Dippin. Quadruple Dippin. Quadruple Dippin.

1:57:59SpeakerInto the Terps.

1:58:01BubblemanGreat Trippin?

1:58:03SpeakerGreat Trippin. This one might hurt. Early pastures Sunday, time to relax and just enjoy it. Ooh, Red Congolese. You know what? I'm going to step it up one more notch. I'm going to add a little bit of Mehdi Kush dry sift. This is going back to, Mark, probably a couple years. Yeah, so I'm going for number five, Darren. Boom. You know what? I'll do the salmon, a lot of the concentrated X's hash.

1:58:30SpeakerNice. To the factor. I'm going to add a little bit of this. What's up? Everybody on Hash Church 89.

1:58:40BubblemanNice sheer on.

1:58:42JohnnyWow, what's that? I'm calling this the Muhammad Ali because it's a knockout method. Muhammad Ali.

1:58:48BubblemanShout out to Muhammad Ali.

1:58:53SpeakerThe champ. Hey, that's a fact. This dab should be for Muhammad Ali, the legend, the champion. Everybody's training techniques, all the hardest stuff, fighting underwater, doing everything was from him originally, man.

1:59:10BubblemanAs I mentioned, his expertise rang outside of the ring. He got into politics, he got into like, he made some heavy statements back in the day, not knowing the future, what the future would hold, not fighting in the Vietnam War was pretty heavy, I'm not going to go kill yellow people for white people. In his prime.

1:59:32JohnnyYeah, yeah. That's why he's... In his prime, he could have had four more bouts in those years.

1:59:39BubblemanIt stripped him of his title, too. He was the Olympic champion in 1960.

1:59:46SpeakerAnd remember what he said about dabs. It stings like an E and makes you float like a butterfly.

1:59:55BubblemanFly, yeah, float like a butterfly, sting like a butterfly. Fly like a butterfly, sting like a butterfly.

2:00:00SpeakerThere's a big poster on D for Tony K when you walk in his apartment right there. It says, I'm so fast that I once turned out the light in my hotel room and I was in the bed and under the covers before the light was out. Muhammad Ali, bong rip to you, brother. Thank you.

2:00:29BubblemanAdam Simpson. I like when people, they got their point that they want to get across, but you don't really like reply to them right away, so they just keep saying it. So he's been asking about 10-gallon bags. And so just now he wrote, Ali would make 10-gallon bubble bags.

2:00:48BubblemanThat's a good one, Adam. I appreciate when it's done in humor, you know? It's not a grind then.

2:00:53SpeakerThat's a respectful dig.

2:00:58JohnnyI've got a couple quotes up here. We should read a couple more of his because they are pretty good and he is somebody not to be overlooked. There's a list here. It's not bragging if you can back it up. He's got don't count the days, make the days count. That's one of my favorites.

2:01:26JohnnyYes. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.

2:01:31SpeakerHow about, I'm so pretty. Yes. I'm so pretty. I'm so fast. I'm pretty. I'm the king of the world.

2:01:45BubblemanMuhammad Ali. Hash Church. And what a chill Hash Church today. We've gone a couple hours in. We really haven't kind of talked a little bit about politics and a little bit about John Irms, but it's just been a real kind of chill, lazy Sunday afternoon. I don't know what the weather's like where all of you guys are, but it is going to be spectacular Jamaica weather here today.

2:02:07BubblemanI guarantee you we'll be in the 90s.

2:02:10SpeakerI put my plants outside, the ones that I have left, a few of them. Six.

2:02:18BubblemanYeah, it's beautiful out there.

2:02:20SpeakerThey're now the outdoor crop for the year.

2:02:23BubblemanMan, that Red Congolese dab was intense. It was intense. Grabbed him in the throat and he had cured out quite a bit. I left the jar open a little bit and it really kind of thickened up. It was intense. Jamaica Queens.

2:02:41SpeakerMine was the Red Congo Terp Dip. Very intense as well. The last one was great.

2:02:46BubblemanWhat's going on in the chat? You guys have any questions that you want answered or that you'd like to see this conversation directed in a certain direction? Perhaps you have a question. If you do, type it out. We'll do our best to answer it. Sometimes there's great questions that come out of the chat and really inspire a great conversation.

2:03:11SpeakerHow many people are watching right now, Mark?

2:03:14BubblemanThere's 853 people watching right now that we can say hello. Jaden 9898 asks, can we sponsor Hash Church?

2:03:23SpeakerWhat about doing the sponsorship thing for Hash Church? Okay, people want to know about my spiders. Bugs. What about... I cut down the whole crop, as you know. It's gone. I left one plant to test a bunch of products with that I've been playing with for the last few days.

2:03:42SpeakerThen the room is being completely redone and I'll be doing it by a lot of suggestions that I've talked to with people on the panel here, the suggestions in my chat room, I mean on my channel. So I'm definitely taking it and redoing everything and going on, you know, next step.

2:03:59JohnnySo let me ask you something about that, John. Last time I was, I hadn't been following you for a minute. You were switching to all LED. Are you still growing that way?

2:04:09SpeakerWhat I'm doing right now is I'm running two Gevitas on one side with the plasma in the middle. On the other side I'm running the EndoMax 315s with the new bulbs and then I'll throw another 150 watt bulb with the LED in the middle. So I've cut my hydro bill down by about probably 65% from the original room. Thank you for watching.

2:04:50SpeakerBefore going into flower now, taking some suggestions from people I've talked to and stuff like that. So of course it's a good learning experience for myself and of course for the people that are following me to see the mistakes that I've made and the reasons why it happened and reasons why I did not want to use these other sprays and stuff on my plants and those stages of flower because I don't want to smoke in my hash.

2:05:13SpeakerYeah. Pretty much, right? I mean this is what you should do. You are correct. Alright, so that was exactly what you said, Sam, and that's what I took the advice, and I took those steps because this is what you need to do, and a lot of people wouldn't do that, but I didn't want to spray anything on there, and I tried lowering humidity, I mean lowering temperatures, raising humidity, I tried certain steps to Help in that manner.

2:05:37SpeakerBut you know what? So cut it down. Learn from what I've done. Next step. And you know what? That's what we're going to do. I won't get them next time. I'm going to ensure that. I'll be going in with full suits. I'll be changing and going inside the room. I've cut down the plants going outside like they're roses and stuff. All these things come into a factor going underneath in my grapes.

2:05:55SpeakerSo walking around the other way. There's little things I can take to ensure that I don't get bugs and there's steps that I have to take for that. So yeah.

2:06:06JohnnyI like how you share all the ups and downs.

2:06:10SpeakerYou have to. I can't hide it. This is exactly what happened. I mean, even I've talked with the guys from Green Planet, the owners, Justin and stuff, but I never had bugs, and then all of a sudden that may happen for the last year and a half, and it's just been I haven't taken the proper steps to fully clean the room. I took it very granted, and now I have to deal with it properly, even from the rebuild of the room and stuff.

2:06:31SpeakerIt was the outside of the room and what I was bringing into the room. Along with people and stuff. So, you know what? It's good to learn.

2:06:41JohnnyBugs are like freeloaders. You know, they're like you build this epic forest and then all of a sudden they come along and you're starting at 100%, meaning your resin and the trichome and everything that you're growing towards is 100% healthy. And the second they start moving in, thrifts, they basically just start having a party on your land. And every minute that goes by, they multiply, and their party gets bigger and bigger.

2:07:13JohnnyAnd then they're having topside parties, and you can see them all hanging out.

2:07:19SpeakerI'm learning, you know, I don't know, like spider mice, they're born pregnant. I mean, I'm talking with other people that use stink and stuff, and they actually march around the plants that are poison, so they're smart. And I was watching them on camera when they had the infestation and how they migrated and how they moved and just how everything they did. Then I hit the whole thing with Dr. Doom and I watched them all die out of contact.

2:07:44SpeakerAnd then a couple days later you start seeing bugs hatching again. So you can actually watch the cycle. It's kind of cool to learn from this one plant, right? That's what I want to learn. That's why I'm doing it. What I was getting at is like, you know,

2:07:59JohnnyYou start off healthy, you get thrifts, that's instant 10% gone off your yield of plant and resin, you know, and you've got to do something. So there's like sticky tape and stuff that like you could put up with a tractum and you see that. But it's just, you know, spider mites or like russet mites or different kinds of mites that come from the soil, you're literally fucked once you get them.

2:08:21JohnnyAnd that's really when everyone asks me, what do you do for bugs? It's called prevention.

2:08:26SpeakerHow about this, Tony? How about this? I've seen plants that don't get bugs because of their terpene, their smell. They have some sort of defense against it that keeps those bugs and powder mildews away that I've seen other plants catch in the same room and the other ones be totally fine. Now is there any profiles that we could use? Or some type of training? The first thing that we'd need to determine is Are they really, truly resistant, or are they just way more resistant than the other varieties in the room?

2:09:04SpeakerSo, in other words, if there was only one variety and you put a bunch of negative bugs in there, are they going to take it because it's only that one variety? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I wonder, too. But there are plants out there that detour plants, like terraniums or something like that, or? There's, um, you plant some, you introduce some houseplants into your room that deflect bugs. Okay, but make sure they don't have bugs on them.

2:09:35SpeakerYes, for sure. But I'm just sharing this with everybody. I never keep any other companion planting, and I'm really meticulous about killing every weed because they all harbor one kind of pest or another. Definitely bring in plants, they bring in other bugs, so. Yeah, house plants. I've seen entire greenhouses, you know, 10,000 square feet killed by white fly, killed by aphids, killed by, well, mites is a big one.

2:10:09SpeakerBut, yeah, I've seen thrips do really bad damage. But, yeah, I mean, the key is constant monitoring and prevention before you have a problem. Yeah. Yeah, you know, when I was using certain contact killer sprays going in the flower, which was all in my videos and stuff, every three days I was spraying and stuff, but I mean, these were just, I mean, these are the products that are out there that are available, and I still got I didn't want to spray in the flower.

2:10:45SpeakerI think it was you who suggested that I should start adding all of these predator bugs and all the biological going in the flower and in veg. Dr. In veg before you flower. Dr. Exactly. Dr. First of all, the predator mites for stimulus, they're not effective. They don't go into diapause during short quota periods. Thank you for watching.

2:11:31SpeakerWell, you know what? People are saying neem oil and stuff like that. Well, spraying an oil on that plant oil and flower, I'm going to taste that in my resin. So I don't want to spray absolutely nothing on my plants one day after I go in the flower. Once I see those pistil of hairs, that's showing me that I'm Getting resin production and we've seen it, Mark, even with your camera coming right out of the seed.

2:11:54BubblemanLike even spraying on veg, you have to understand you're still coating resins. You're still spraying.

2:12:00SpeakerI don't care. So I mean it's really, that's my main focus. I use, it's my medicine. I smoke all my resin and I don't want to spray anything on my plants and I want to, you know, that's my main key importance around this and I'm going to go back to going organic and how I've done before. It's What I use, and I might mix soils again. One of the big problems, John, is maintaining mothers 100% pest-free.

2:12:29SpeakerYes, and I've had the same mom around since 2006. But with little tiny mothers that are just, say, less than six inches tall, I would have nothing against dipping mothers In a really, really strong insecticide targeted at your particular pest. Exactly. Those leaves will all be gone. Dip it, if you need to, three times a week apart, like that's what I used to do, before I put it in the general population.

2:13:04SpeakerI was growing thousands of plants and I wasn't having problems. There you go, yeah. So instead of just have this, it is what it is, but learning from it again and just the few mistakes that I did make and just even outside of my room when I go in, I had all these pots sitting there and all the old stakes been there for a year. Of course, I started pulling pots out of there and cleaning it up.

2:13:27SpeakerThere's webs in there and stuff. I mean, I made my mistakes. I could see the reasons why I had bugs and stuff like that.

2:13:32BubblemanDid you get rid of that vine that had all that powdery mildew outside of your room, that giant vine?

2:13:37SpeakerI cut that whole tree out.

2:13:41BubblemanThat was amazing. I remember telling you that years ago.

2:13:45SpeakerAnybody ever had scales before?

2:13:47BubblemanYou would walk under this perugula that was covered in this grapevine, like completely. That's how you got to the room, and it was like… At one point in time in the year, this grapevine towards the fall would just mold. It would just get powdery mildew unlike you've ever seen on an outdoor plant, and I was thinking, That's how it's getting into the room for sure.

2:14:08SpeakerI got plums, I got grapes, I got roses, I got pears, I got apples all walking in there, so I got a full plus. Yeah, so you know what? I have to redo my whole route. I know that. I have to change some things. There's just a few things that I've made mistakes in. Hey, I got lazy.

2:14:27BubblemanI learned that from that way. Having a Thank you for watching.

2:14:46SpeakerI've been at professional greenhouse systems where they make you change your clothes and they have a strong airflow, positive airflow, so that no insects can get into the greenhouse.

2:15:00BubblemanI think Tweed has one of those. I saw, maybe it was a company out east, DNA posted it. They were in one of those air chambers going into the next room. I think it was in like New York or something. It was definitely a unique video.

2:15:16SpeakerBecause if you're handling any plant that has mites, whether it's in a garden or just walking down the street and they're falling on you, whatever, I mean, they're on your clothes. You don't see them, you know.

2:15:30BubblemanYeah, totally.

2:15:34BubblemanThey are indeed. I like the headphones you've got on Sam I Am. That's quite, that's hilarious.

2:15:44SpeakerAnything for good sound.

2:15:47JohnnySo there's, you know, John, I was going to say that everything's about prevention and methodical in the way that you do things, you know, controlling the air quality, you know, using UV air breakdowns and closed routes versus when you're open, you know, at night. But top, top, top, foliar heating, like during veg, A lot of people that are doing indoor, they are scared to do it. You just shut your lights off for a minute and do it and let it dry.

2:16:16JohnnyBut like when you foliar feed with like just pH water, though, or you foliar feed with, you know, like a tea brew or something, you kind of save the roots and you're able to do kind of a natural feeding but also defense at the same time. You know, so you want to be able to During veg, like prevent everything you can, not only in your suits and how you come in the room and how you approach your air quality, but also how you approach the feeding of the plant, you know, and what kind of light you give it.

2:16:50SpeakerAnd resistant varieties will become more and more important. Eventually, there'll be marker genes for resistance to Pacific. I mean, they've already done this with grapes, with potatoes, with lots of crops, and cannabis will be next.

2:17:09JohnnyYeah, Todd made a good point. Acid water sprayed for bugs and alkaline sprayed for molds. You know, it's simple things that you can do in prevention, and There's nothing really, in my opinion, when you get bugs, you just get them, and there's hardly anything you can do. I've tried different torture methods, and what I mean by that is that they are contamination, and Todd's looking like torture.

2:17:34Todd MccormickWell, I was thinking, you're torturing yourself.

2:17:38Mark GrissmanYou can do different torture methods.

2:17:40JohnnyGo ahead. Well, yeah, I was just going to say real quick that if you're in a small room, when the lights go out, That's when they party. So the second the lights go out, in about 15 minutes, the bugs come out and they're partying. And if you had a small room and it was really closed and you were very well insulated, you could choke them out with high volumes of CO2 and undercurrents and try to flood the room out.

2:18:06JohnnyThere's ways to do it, like if you drop the temperature, if you could do that in your room and freeze them out, like torture, you know, like gas them, put CO2, keep it cold for different increments.

2:18:20SpeakerAll of those methods, I gassed, I had high CO2, I lowered the temperature, I brought my humidity up to 85%. All I did was make these big webs around everything, and then it was like, You know, all said and done, I let a can of Dr. Doom fogger out just because the room is done. I'm going to wipe the whole room down with some O2 bleach and then from there I might use some H2O2 on the floors and, you know, I'm going to do a few different things, but I'm going to get the room all nicely.

2:18:48JohnnySo you were basically breeding for bugs. Your garden was designed for bugs. It was designed for bugs. You just grew, like they came in, they started partying, they took over, and now they own your land. Yeah, they couldn't leave. They're just like, we can't get out of here, so we're just staying. That's what I mean. It's hard once you get them. Unless you use chemicals, it's like you're not going to get rid of them.

2:19:12SpeakerYou know, so prevention is the best way. I read even the Dr. Dune and, you know, it's something that as a contact, I put it off in the room from there. I'm cleaning the whole room, wiping everything down. There's different methods. There's a few different things that people have put in my comments that have made some suggestions. You know what, I kind of know what to do, so it's just a matter of, I just got to clean everything up and just be a little bit more smarter about going into my room and, you know, straighten out my techniques a little bit.

2:19:46SpeakerThat's all it was, was being lazy. That's what it comes down to. Once you have spider mites, you can never get rid of them, but you can still control them so that they're not really economic damage. But, Things like white flies and aphids, you can control them 100% even after you get them.

2:20:10Todd MccormickWhy do you say you can't get rid of the spider mites, Sam?

2:20:15SpeakerBecause they never eat every single pest, the predators. No matter how many you put on, they don't eat every single pest.

2:20:26Todd MccormickOkay. I understand what you're saying in that sense. For most of the gardens I've seen, I feel that people are lazy and that they don't promote good practices. They contaminate their rooms. They show their rooms to their friends who are growers. Thank you for watching.

2:21:06Todd MccormickWhat you're doing. And I think that even little growers have to start looking at this a little more, you know, realiztically if they want a clean garden, you've got to have a clean space and you've got to not contaminate it once you have it clean. Doesn't seem crazy, but so many people do everything wrong, I think.

2:21:26SpeakerI painted the floors. I did everything, but I made some mistakes. Now I've got a good room to clean. It's easy to clean my stuff because of the extent that I went into the room. I had a good run before that. It went very good at the end. I was getting bugs and Of course, going into flower again, it was trying to be preventative, but, you know, I made some wrong steps.

2:21:47SpeakerIt's definitely learning, and once again, going into flower, not spraying is what we have to not do, and that was my most important part of all this. Girl was not spraying on the plant, so. You know what? That's what happened. I was able to grow thousands of plants every year for years in the same greenhouse for decades with never using chemical sprays other than the dip I just talked about to little, little tiny clones just so that I could bring them into my greenhouse.

2:22:19SpeakerThere you go, so that's exactly how. A lot of times I wouldn't even plant those. Well, I'd plant them, but I'd grow them, and then if I wanted to flower one off, I'd take the cutting from the little tiny one that got dipped when it was a little tiny one, when it was grown up big in the mother. And so you're talking about parts per trillion or something.

2:22:40Mark GrissmanWhat was the dip you used, Sam?

2:22:43SpeakerWell, it depends. Usually when I was looking, because I can see most pests, but spider mites you can't see, so we used to use Floramite, there was another one we used to use. I think it was called Torque. I don't even remember the names anymore, but Floramite was what we were using against mite at the latest. In other words, I think you can still buy it, but you have to have taken a controlled spray class to be able to handle it and buy it legally.

2:23:18SpeakerIt's a nasty one.

2:23:21JohnnyThere's, we were talking earlier in the chat about the different terpenes that are produced by other plants that would help with defending that and people that use rosemary or different stuff on their flowers. That also does come out in the extract too and some people that have autoimmune or asthma conditions can, maybe if they're allergic to rosemary it could be dangerous too. So there's all kinds of

2:23:51SpeakerLike, things that you could do, and there's always going to be... Yeah, terpenes have been used experimentally for all kinds of pest control, so anything's possible, that's for sure, Tony.

2:24:03JohnnyYeah, you could take, like, what we post here is a journal, and that's what's from geraniums. Maybe put that with a particular pH water and use an atomizer that's like a fogger.

2:24:16SpeakerIf it was up to me, I'd use red congolese.

2:24:20JohnnyOh, yeah?

2:24:22Mark GrissmanYeah, but those aren't insecticides, right? Those are insect repellents, right? Those are just repellent-y insects, so it's just going to push them over to wherever you have less repellent. So it may push them from one plant to another. You're not going to kill them. Where the stuff that Sam's talking about is actually a really potent insecticide.

2:24:43SpeakerOh, it's a nasty, nasty poison.

2:24:46Mark GrissmanYeah, it's bifensate. I didn't know that that's what it was.

2:24:53SpeakerYou have to wear a mask, a complete suit, gloves, just to mix up a bucket full for dipping clones in. Not even spraying it. But spraying it, you've got to have really good filter masks.

2:25:10Mark GrissmanYeah. Yeah, it's a nasty molecule. It's something that's not approved for non-food or non-food use.

2:25:17SpeakerExcept for I used it to dip plants that I wanted to be 100% sure were safe. So I used it in a very minimal way.

2:25:27JohnnyYou know, and this is why I say prevention. You know, because once, like Sam says, once you have them, there's not much you can do that's not going to affect the outcome. But this is also why I choose Making bubble hash and then making that into a rosin rather than a flower rosin just because, you know, bugs aren't going to, those little, if you do have some bugs there, they're not going to make it through the screening process, you know.

2:25:54SpeakerWell, we talk a lot about this at the Hydra store and we believe a lot of the bugs that come with the soils, like pro mixes that we get, that are coming from outdoor big Big storing areas. It is soil. I mean, what's coming in that soil?

2:26:08Todd MccormickI completely agree with that. Contamination is coming in. The more organic we are, the more problems we have.

2:26:14SpeakerAnd all of a sudden, we got bugs. Well, where do you think these bales of dirt came from? I mean, they're not baked. They're not coming out of an oven directly delivered to you. There's certain steps, even with mixing soils and stuff like that. That's what I've got to get into.

2:26:28Todd MccormickYou know the little jiffies? I planted seeds in them. I got a case of them before, and what happened was these little worms were coming and starting to eat the little seeds, and I couldn't believe it. I did an internet search. People all over the world have an insane problem with these little things because they come, they came in a whatever, they got contaminated in some way, and when you rehydrate them, it wakes up this little parasite that's in it.

2:26:54Todd MccormickYou can look it up, and it's unbelievable. So I had to throw all of them away. They were all garbage, you know.

2:27:02SpeakerI've used those hundreds of times. I never got little worms, but maybe it was just one batch that got contaminated.

2:27:12SpeakerSo, I mean, this is a lot of the problems we have. We pick it up when we buy the soil, and then they give us all these pesticides and stuff like that to use that are only contact killers, so, I mean, we're not getting rid of bugs, and they expect us to spray all the way through flower, and then they tell us that it's okay to spray.

2:27:30SpeakerI can't believe they're like, oh, it's okay, it's residual, it'll wash out. Well, you've got to remember, it is okay. I spray this stuff on my flowers, and I'm telling you, Were you kidding yourself that you could take all these products that I have, everything they offer on the shelf, and they tell me I could spray this stuff on my plants, And I can consume it later.

2:27:50SpeakerAnd it's just wrong what they're doing. And all that's offered to the community right now for bug control is just all these chemicals. And I work at a hydroponic store, and I'm left with really no options. And sitting here talking to you guys about it, high pH water spraying down the walls, people with sed, getting foggers, using H2O2.

2:28:11JohnnyWell, there's two things that were a little off. Like, high humidity is going to help breed the bugs, and, like, the pH usually would be down, not up.

2:28:19SpeakerSo low pH, see here's the little things, that's what I'm curious about. I'm like high pH maybe for powdery mildew, but I mean for bugs, you're saying low pH.

2:28:32JohnnyNo, no, so the pH of the water you're trying to control as a preventative. You have to use, so they have atomizers, they have ultrasound fogger atomizers things. That you can plug in and it does an amazing job because it breaks into little tiny particles and you can get underneath all the plants, leaves, sticks, everything in the whole room gets fogged out. It's really easy. And this is all prevention.

2:28:55JohnnySo you would want to have a pH on your plant of your plants like seven. So it depends on what you're using it for if you're using it for prevention. And if you already have powdery mildew just like bugs, you're fucked.

2:29:11SpeakerNo, I don't. You like everything right now.

2:29:15JohnnyIt starts with the clones, you know, and you're over there and you have to be very firm in the selection of the soldiers that you're going to have, you know, and if you have a weak one or if you have one that looks a little sick, you're like, oh, I'm going to nurse that one back. You're already starting below 100%. You know, now if that one was sick and you're like, I'm going to nurse it along, you know, that's...

2:29:39SpeakerRight? So if you're weak, if you can't make it, you're cut. And that's exactly the way you should treat the garden and your rent. Yeah. You learn with experience that they're susceptible to mildew.

2:29:51BubblemanOh, yeah. Like anything with some Afghani.

2:29:54JohnnyLike Darren said, if all of a sudden one is just like, boom, blooms like PM and the whole room's fine and now you're fucked, you'll never grow that one again. That one's cut, you go right over to the mother, pull that, you know, girl right out and kill it.

2:30:11SpeakerOr grow it in Afghanistan where it's from. Or maybe the Akadama Desert in Chile. There's no such thing as a bad plant. We just need to, you know, find a good place for it.

2:30:29BubblemanSo someone asked a question earlier in regards to what they thought the importance of growing in particular areas and what What kind of successes will see? And I guess that's really the answer right there. You'll see less of the negative attributes that you might see to these Afghani strains that are being grown in, say, the Pacific Northwest, which is just powdery mildew-ville, and you have no... They just can't fight it or push it back.

2:30:58BubblemanOh, they just seem to attract it almost.

2:31:01SpeakerThe easiest example is all the varietals in wine all around the world. I mean, the same thing will happen with cannabis once it's legal all around the world.

2:31:12BubblemanI'm sure certain terpene profiles that we find are important will just be like other essential oils, grown to perfection and maybe... Better or easier or more accessible in certain areas, at certain elevations, in certain soil mixtures with that particular sun profile. So many variables really, but I mean it's said to be true for other essential oils that there are... French used to win all the wine contests.

2:31:40SpeakerNow the Australians, the New Zealanders, the Californians, you know all kinds of people are producing the best of a certain kind of wine. True.

2:31:52BubblemanProbably because they started creating their own, you know, bred their own grapes rather than tried to grow those same ones that the French were winning with all those years.

2:32:01SpeakerNo, I think they are the same grapes.

2:32:04BubblemanJust the same grapes, just French varietals that they've taken to Australia? They grow elsewhere, correct. Cool. Very interesting.

2:32:19SpeakerWell, people are saying marigolds for bugs and stuff like that, but once again, do I want to put marigolds in my grow room as I'm growing my medicine? That could bring in more bugs, so probably not. I would not suggest it. In an outdoor garden, it might be well worthwhile trying it.

2:32:45SpeakerYeah, that would make perfect sense. Outdoor garden doesn't hurt to have planted around plants and the bottom and stuff like that.

2:32:52JohnnySince you're into supplemental light, like having the UV, having a supplemental UV light itself in there would help control any kind of mold spores and PM and

2:33:04SpeakerWell, it's funny you say that because I didn't use the UVC light in this grow yet. I wasn't using it every day where I was the last couple of ones and I was able to maintain it. I had no problems where this one here, a couple of things that I'm realizing I did not do and made it played into exactly how it played out to the end of me just cutting it down instead of spraying on it.

2:33:27JohnnyDo you also think that the spectrum, like, are you lacking like a red or orange color Uh, Spectrum in the Garden because you're doing, what, Gavitas and Plasmas, because those also help boost immunity and different types of support too. Plant thrives on them.

2:33:43SpeakerI can see underneath the Plasma and the Gavitas, like the growth in that plant, you can see how healthy it was. Like, the other side took on the bugs first and that was on the corner where the LED was and it kind of spread towards the Gavita and the Gavita were the healthier plants. Mind you, it was two different Two different seeds, same strain, right? So one was a little weaker just by seeing it in the growth and how it was in the room.

2:34:07SpeakerSo it was like the weaker strain took it on first and it just kind of spread from there. And this is all documented, this party? Oh yeah, it's all on video. The whole thing all the way through from me spraying and stuff like that going right all the way through to me just cutting it down.

2:34:22JohnnyWell, there was millions of bugs. There were like Johnny Bees, he's throwing a party. It's time for a drink.

2:34:28SpeakerWe were waiting for nine days and I just left it, right? I went away and came back and I walked into the room and went, okay, this is what happens when you go in for nine days. You left the place, Tony. You know that, you guys lock up when you leave. You should see the video. You're going to see it. They're migrating to the end where there's a little bit of moisture left and they're taking it back.

2:34:54SpeakerThe quality and how smart these guys work and how they're doing things in there. I was just like, wow. I've never done that before, right? I let it go because I wanted to learn for myself just to see a couple different things. I never have before. I've never, you know, I've never been like, why not? I was like, why not? You know, let's just take a look.

2:35:12SpeakerAnd it's like, it's quite amazing how they've structured around the whole buzz. They've completely closed it. They're migrating back and forth. They're laying eggs. They've got this whole party going on. Like I said, there's shooters going on over here. They've got a strip club over there. You know what? They've got a little school over here for education on the next steps of what to do to move down to the other colonies.

2:35:33JohnnyThey're colonizing here.

2:35:34SpeakerThey're moving the crop down, right? They're moving the whole school down to the next level to the buzz that aren't fully accepted. So you can see the migration. They're actually hanging and dropping down and they're letting go. And you see them landing on the buzz. Yeah, I made it. It's like jumping from mountain to mountain. It's kind of funny. I tried using a vacuum cleaner on them once.

2:35:56SpeakerIt wasn't effective. No, I'm not going to do that. I completely sprayed them down, and then I'm going to coat them with some insecticidal soap. Then I'm going to put a bag on it, and I cut it off and take that bag, put it back there to pour gas on it, small fire. Fire department showed up. No, I'm kidding. You might want to do that to the grow room.

2:36:20SpeakerWell, the grow room is completely, the way my room is set up, it's blue skin, so it's quite easy to clean. It's really taking a look at the air handler and taking a look at the old can, pulling that out. There's different steps that I'm going to take into what I'm doing with my room because it is an easy room to clean just the way I've built it and stuff like that.

2:36:40SpeakerSo it's just a matter of just getting back at it. You know what? Never mind. Mike, try to overwinter in cracks, so be careful.

2:36:53SpeakerThey overwinter in cracks. Like in cracks in wood, in cracks in the greenhouse, in cracks in the ground.

2:37:04JohnnyYou're never going to get rid of them. This is what you call blowtorch. I used to do consulting for grows and stuff. This is the blowtorch. This is when somebody says, what do you think we should do? And I go, take a blowtorch and blow it down and move on. Like, because it's, like, if you intentionally threw a topside party for your mites and they were calling all their buddies and millions were coming and they had discos going on and construction workers dropping down and you did that in your home, they're going to hide out in the walls, man.

2:37:36JohnnyThey're going to hide out everywhere until they're ready.

2:37:39SpeakerThey're going to come back. Well, you know, there are beetles that will hang in the walls and wait for them to come out and attack them at the same time, so there are different things that I can do to add to my room. And, you know what, I'm just going to, you know, I'm going to do this.

2:37:52BubblemanWatch and see. It'll all be in the upcoming videos, the upcoming, over the course of the next.

2:37:58JohnnyI had no idea he filmed all this, though. That's what's, like, mind-blowing.

2:38:02SpeakerYeah, you know what, it was, I made all the right steps, you know what, it's just interesting.

2:38:09BubblemanSomeone in chat said, Johnny B will burn his house down if necessary.

2:38:14SpeakerI think he should be called Mighty Man.

2:38:18JohnnyWell, that's why I thought you were moving to the waterfall area. That's what I thought it was all about because of the mite situation.

2:38:27BubblemanStrangely enough, Niagara Falls just had a monstrous russet mite outbreak over the course of the last two weeks.

2:38:42SpeakerNo, you know what? It is what it is. I kind of just let it go for certain reasons. I didn't catch it, but at that point, I made my decisions on what to do, and that was not to spray. That's why I made all the steps by bringing my humidity up, lowering my temperatures down, bringing in ladybugs. I made all these steps, but I made these steps too late, and that was the problem.

2:39:06SpeakerLearning from that, going back, and making sure I don't make those same mistakes again, It's just, you know, it's a learning process and it's good. Like, I even talked to Justin about it. He's like, you never had bugs. I'm like, I know, and all of a sudden I can't get rid of them. And it's just, now I have to maintain my room to make sure that I'm able to live in harmony with them by the sounds of it.

2:39:34JohnnyNo comment. No, I'm just... I'll check it out later, you know, this will be interesting.

2:39:42SpeakerYeah, you know what, it's getting back into organics and getting men more into, you know, everything people are suggesting, living soils and stuff like that, that's a lot of work, so I'm definitely looking at different methods of being able to go into the next, into my next growth and making sure that I have a The way my stuff works is I have to put stuff down. I'm going to slowly start running out now just because of surgery and this one here and the failure and stuff like that.

2:40:11SpeakerI've got enough hash to last, but things have to be done as you're my patient, right? Pardon me?

2:40:18Todd MccormickYou know, bigger companies like Sensi in Europe and others have used a combination of rock wool and hydroton very successfully because you can clean the hydroton. You know, you can re-sterilize it just using steam. And... You know, hydrogen peroxide, really. And, you know, the rock wool you're getting is not going to have the contaminants that your soil or cocoa or other sources are coming in from. And you are only throwing away a very little bit of material, which is that little bit of rock wool attached to the root ball.

2:40:52Todd MccormickThe hydroton, you're, like I said, recovering and you're putting back in. And it's a very effective medium for, you know, a sterile. It's a growing environment on a professional level, and they've been doing it for like 30 years plus.

2:41:05SpeakerI've never been a real big Rockwell kind of guy for rooting. I've tried and always seem to fail. I soak it for 24 hours, and I got the turbo cloner. I think that's what I'm going to go with the next one is use the turbo cloner, so don't use any jiffies or anything, and then I've got to establish those roots again.

2:41:23Todd MccormickWell, you could do it in, have you ever used Hydraton? Have you ever used those little round clay pellets? It's called Hydraton. No, I have not. It's really, it works really good. You can actually use your standard pots, if you're using plastic pots, and you just can fill them up. You know, you would just have to put something as a piece. Yeah, you could actually take it out of the cloner and put it down on top and just find a way to cover the top a bit, you know, so you don't get algae build up and then, you know, drip away.

2:41:54Todd MccormickWorks great.

2:41:55SpeakerWe used to eat lava rock, but then we used to cut the roots as we used to move it around too much. It might be a place to go back to for sure.

2:42:07Todd MccormickYeah, and I think you can control your garden. I think that if you cut everything back and you bring it down to a manageable size, like, you know, Sam was saying, you know, a bunch of little plants that you can clean and sterilize the environment and then, you know, start fresh. I mean, it's the only way I know of of really kind of getting back onto the, you know, and then going clean, you know.

2:42:28SpeakerThat's the way I feel. That's why I did what I did is cut it down, get rid of everything, pull it all out, let's bring it in fresh, start by dipping new clones. And just stay on top of it right from the beginning and adding some predator mites and stuff. Adding predators, I think the end veg, even though I don't have mites because they are going to be present somewhere, we know that they are existent.

2:42:52SpeakerSo there might be some steps I should take before going into flower this time instead of after I'm in flower and trying to What we used to try to do, John, was to make sure we had absolutely no mites when we started flowering. Because after flowering, you could still use, I believe it was at the time called Occidentalis Californius. And they are much less susceptible to diapause under short photo periods.

2:43:20SpeakerBut the standard one, which we call here rope mite or... For some of us, they're not effective once they start flowering. Yeah, that's what you were saying there when we were talking there weeks ago and stuff like that. So I've taken all this stuff into account and talked about it and getting all the proper things ready for next ground, right? Can't stop, never do. At BedderCon here in the Netherlands, they close up the rooms and they don't go in them.

2:43:54SpeakerHmm. For how long? The entire flowering. Are you serious? No, I'm serious. It's all monitored by cameras. I wish Chamero was here. He took the tour the last time.

2:44:09Etienne FontanI took it as well in 2011. I saw it. They do the same thing. I was stunned, actually, because they put them in the small pot.

2:44:17SpeakerNo human contact.

2:44:19Etienne FontanAnd then they put them all tight into this room with a drip system and shut it in, and that's it.

2:44:27Etienne FontanReally, just let nature do its thing for eight weeks, ten weeks, whatever it takes. Yeah, and you see how the lights are as well, Sam. The lights are how many feet away above the actual plants themselves on top of that because they're growing for consistency. They don't want any types of other problems, but it still doesn't keep molds and mildews from creeping in.

2:44:45SpeakerYeah, but the important thing is that terpenes are not an important medical ingredient.

2:44:57Etienne FontanWhat about medical thrips?

2:45:00BubblemanWhich has nothing to do with the fact that their irradiation process is robbing 30% of the terpenes from their cultivars.

2:45:08SpeakerWe would get thrips almost every year because they fly in through the roof of my fucking greenhouse. Now, you can get more modern constructions of greenhouses that have built-in thrips screens so when the windows open, They're still protected and thrips can't get through them. But yeah, mine wasn't. So I would get thrips, but I would deal with them. And they were never an economic problem at all.

2:45:37SpeakerBut I was not a commercial cannabis producer. I was a cannabis breeder. So I have much more higher thresholds of damage is permissible.

2:45:55SpeakerLots of good stuff to take into account. Thank you very much. It's good to talk about it because people do have these problems and we always walk into these hydro stores and they always hand us this can of conch or Dr. Dune and they tell you to spray it with flour and I just have problems with that. Thanks for all the advice, guys. I appreciate it.

2:46:17BubblemanWell, Brett Maverick said the funniest thing. He said, you can bet if they're working at a hydroponics shop, they're probably not growing the bomb.

2:46:26SpeakerRight, that's what I've always felt is true.

2:46:28BubblemanIt's kind of true, you know.

2:46:30Todd MccormickIf you knew how to do this, you wouldn't be here selling me soil. Yeah, you might be at home doing what you say you can do. I always pointed this out to people that were investors. I'm like, the people that can grow grass are not going to grow you grass because they're already growing grass for themselves. The people that can't pull off their own gardens are more than willing to work for you.

2:46:54Todd MccormickThey'll step right up for sure.

2:46:56Etienne FontanAnd sell you your tomatoes.

2:47:00Etienne FontanAnd how to grow your tomatoes. Yeah, back in the day, that's when you had to go out on the grocery, you couldn't talk about cannabis, you could only talk about as close to tomatoes.

2:47:11SpeakerDo you remember when George Cervantes switched from talking about cannabis to indoor under light tomatoes and all this other stuff? He did that for about three or four years and then he switched back to cannabis.

2:47:27BubblemanRight. That's when he was real paranoid, when he was wearing the wig with the dreads and stuff.

2:47:31SpeakerWell, he might have had his good reasons at that time. Our government was even more bizarre than it is today.

2:47:38BubblemanFor sure. He was traveling a lot and stuff, so I hear him.

2:47:48Todd MccormickYou know, I think that bugs, I shouldn't be looked at so much of it. If you're going to live in an organic situation, you've got to coexist with the creatures around you, and you've just got to learn how to keep those creatures, you know, you've got to learn how to keep ants out of your kitchen and spider mites out of your garden. I mean, it's just part of, like, you're not going to go kill every ant in the world.

2:48:08Todd MccormickYou're not going to be able to go kill every spider mite, and if you live in some places that are warm... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:48:43Etienne FontanThank you so much for joining us.

2:49:09Mark GrissmanThank you so much for joining us.

2:49:34Todd MccormickRight, but that said, you know what, I actually don't think that after doing it at Positronics and in my own world, I don't think introducing other bugs into your environment to combat the other bugs is a good idea. I think no bug shit on your supposed medicine is a better idea. And I don't care if it was a beneficial bug or a not so beneficial bug. I don't want to see it's fucking eggs on the flower after, you know, the processing.

2:50:00Todd MccormickAnd... You know, keeping your environment clean and making, you know, sterile flowers is not impossible. It just takes work. It just takes effort. It takes a clean environment. It takes going down there and maintaining the plant leaves and cutting them back and looking for problems and taking appropriate, you know, measures, even if it's just a simple organic pesticide soap to limit their ability to propagate. There's so many things we can do if we're just doing due diligence and taking care of the shit.

2:50:32Todd MccormickI think problems really come when we see people not doing what it takes, being a bit lazy. I mean, the idea of closing plants in for eight or nine or ten weeks and coming back like a surprise to see how the flowers came out, to me, is insanity.

2:50:47SpeakerWell, they're doing it so there's no contamination during the process.

2:50:52Todd MccormickI can understand that, but the problem is there's also, you know, so much work.

2:50:58SpeakerI'm not agreeing, Todd. I'm just telling you why.

2:51:00Etienne FontanOh, yeah. Oh, Todd, they have a window. You can actually look in through the little window glass.

2:51:06SpeakerAnd there's cameras.

2:51:08Etienne FontanYes.

2:51:09Todd MccormickIf only cameras could garden. You know, but whatever. I think quality and quality do not go hand in hand, obviously.

2:51:19SpeakerTheir motto is untouched by humans.

2:51:22Mark GrissmanYeah, maybe they'll have a drone for that someday, right?

2:51:27SpeakerWell, what it comes down to is you need healthy plants, healthy roots, you know. Healthy roots are going to play a key role. Healthy plant, right? I have a sick plant. I've got to eliminate it, throw it out. That's the problem. We always try to save that plant, like you were saying, try and nourish it back to health. That's the one that slowly destroys the room.

2:51:46Todd MccormickWell, that one will attract problems. And I think this is part of the plant numbers. I think that we shouldn't have to. It's nature. You know, we have problems with bugs and stuff. I mean... This is where I think the plant numbers will be unrealistic because a good garden really is best when you have backup plants, when you have the ability of throwing away what isn't working out.

2:52:07Todd MccormickIf one of them was under the LEDs in the corner and wasn't getting good light and ended up being a little sickly and that's the one that got attacked by bugs, that all makes sense to me. So then chuck the plant and put a good healthy one in its place and put some more light and air circulation in that area and rectify the problem.

2:52:29SpeakerI guess I'm used to growing a lot of plants in a greenhouse which had open roofs, so you had to have prevention pest control, or you were going to get more than a little bit of shit that you might find from the beneficial bugs. Yeah, I'm talking about... Well, this will be a lot easier when the plants are not so valuable.

2:53:04Todd MccormickYou know, when we can afford to throw away and restart and, you know, when we can actually trade clean genetics confidently, that'll be a step in the right direction, you know.

2:53:16SpeakerPeople will also know which are more resistant to these various pests.

2:53:21Todd MccormickTechnology is going to help us too because as we go forward, if we get to a place where we are getting our cultivars via cuttings we know are perfectly clean and we're able to incubate them in our own little way, this is the beginning, I think, to a whole new... Cannabis is going to be great with technology, I feel, because it's just a chemical marvel on a lot of levels, you know.

2:53:54Todd MccormickI look at hydroponics and the cannabis breeding as going hand in hand because I think that a lot of the influence of the innovations that went into the hydroponic industry came from cannabis gardeners being forced to use them in clandestine operations. Tomato farming and everything is great, but The sheer profit motive is what really drove the innovation in hydroponics for cannabis cultivators. And I think that's not going to change now, especially as we get into tissue culture and just the equipment that we can utilize the technology with in our gardens.

2:54:36Todd MccormickI think we're going to see a lot of these problems taken care of, you know.

2:54:45SpeakerWell, the few plants that I kept, I put them outside and continued to go with them, and they're bug-free, and they're doing fine outside. So I just took two and put them outside just to see how they'd work out, and the natural surroundings took care of the bugs.

2:55:02Todd MccormickYeah, the UV, you know, I think a lot of the problems we have is that the lights don't produce the UV that we need, and a lot of the greenhouses block the UV, and when you put these plants outside, the sun is an amazing sterilizer. You know, the part of the problem with outside, though, then, is a bird can come by and shit on your product, which isn't cool either.

2:55:20Todd MccormickSo, there's a trade-off on every level, you know, I mean... I like organic pot grown outside. I think it's awesome. Anyone that's ever experienced going up to a huge in-bloom cannabis plant in somebody's backyard, it's just, it's love. It's just so much great energy. I can't wait to see it everywhere, you know what I mean? But at the same time, I mean, I've seen that love in grow rooms.

2:55:45Todd MccormickI've seen that love in greenhouses. You know, it's, and in some, in the inside of greenhouses, I do like the fact that the, you know, birds couldn't shit on the flowers. I think that's a good benefit.

2:55:58BubblemanI like my resin free of any type of fecal matter myself. Just going to throw it out there, you know what I mean?

2:56:05SpeakerGreenhouses are also really nice, Todd, when it's raining outdoors and you're standing in your greenhouse.

2:56:13Todd MccormickYeah, yeah. So I actually think the future of high quality cannabis will be in, you know, wonderfully technologically, you know, controlled greenhouses, you know, that have better panels than we do now that allow more UV in probably so that we actually don't have the powdery mildew issues and such that we have. You know, I think the future is going to be great. I mean, like we're all sitting here in different countries having a conversation on a live broadcast.

2:56:40Todd MccormickI think technology is going to make the world a better place, especially when it comes to cannabis cultivation, as it has for the past 30 years.

2:56:47SpeakerYeah, pretty much. Yeah, it's done great things. I'll probably spend some time building a greenhouse this year for next year because I think that's the next steps with what we're doing in Canada with legalization. I think I'll have no problem growing outside and having a few plants for sun grown. I know how well it does but here in BC because of the weather they never seem to finish.

2:57:11SpeakerSo hopefully with a greenhouse I'll be able to do that. Well, not only that, but you can build a darkening system into your greenhouse. That's pretty easy. Yes, we can get little small portable darkening driven motors that are very inexpensive.

2:57:27BubblemanYep, it's true. In fact, some of the greenhouses you buy, they come with ones that are custom built for those.

2:57:33SpeakerThey're like awning rollers. And I'm talking like a 12 by 12 or 14 by 14 greenhouse, something nice for the backyard where I can actually do all kinds of different growing. If you want to have control over it with photo period, you want a darkening system built in. Yeah, it's definitely going into account, something I must have to think about for sure, but I am looking at it.

2:57:57SpeakerSomething I want to do, I think it's just the next step of my journey of growing my medicine all the time. I know they're not going to be able to take away that right, so I want to make sure I'm able to access it and continue to grow it until I'm old and cannot. I'll have enough thought or maybe by that time it'll just be like everywhere.

2:58:24SpeakerI would say the speed of legalization is doubling almost every year.

2:58:31Todd MccormickI also can't wait to see what kind of grass we see growing in places where the climate's perfect for growing cannabis, like inland San Diego where it's 68 and sunny. That's going to be amazing.

2:58:44SpeakerOr the equator. I mean, everywhere it's going to have a variety of cannabis that produces best there.

2:58:55Etienne FontanBut this is what these other laws that we're talking about earlier in the discussion will spawn, you know, that's what will continue that doubling. We see, you know, California and Nevada and, you know, Michigan and, you know, Maine start going in that direction. You're also going to see the next election more states get on board and it's just going to steamroll until we finally reach that end of that federal prohibition because we know as so goes the United States.

2:59:21Etienne FontanYou know, hopefully so go the UN and Canada and various other countries. So each is a stepping stone. We can't get there all at once, people. There's no be all, end all to this. We still have to do our part and create our change that we wish to see. Last time I checked.

2:59:44Todd MccormickI totally agree, man. Everybody, I think I'm going to jump off. It's high noon in California right now.

2:59:55BubblemanIt is high noon on the west coast and I was actually just waiting for the conversation to die down so I can say thanks everyone for making Past Church 89 a fun episode. Got to talk about a bunch of things in regards to growing and bugs and the cannabis plant that we love. Always appreciate you guys showing up for the panel. Mr. Scaldone, Johnny B, Skunkman Sam, ATN, Todd, and Tony.

3:00:19BubblemanWe had D420K in earlier. He has since left, but we say goodbye to him as well. And of course, all of you out there that have been watching, next week we're going to try and make it a good hash episode. Let's hope that it falls together beautifully and we get a really lovely panel in of some interchanging people over the course of the show to share their hash stories and their hash making and all things hash.

3:00:44BubblemanWe'll see you guys next week, episode 90. Peace. Peace.