Cannabis History and Hybridization

0:02BubblemanGood morning, good afternoon, and good evening to all of you wonderful people out there in Hash World land, and welcome to Hash Church episode 98. If you can imagine, two episodes away from the big 100, about to get into our triple digits, and I gotta say, I give thanks every Sunday morning to be able to wake up and see all you wonderful people checking it out. I really do appreciate it.

0:27BubblemanJust waiting for it to go live on YouTube here. Seems to be taking a little bit longer than usual. Maybe I'll send out the links real quick. And we'll get our crew in here. See what's going on. Not sure why the chat is not starting. Is it starting?

0:49SpeakerLet me see what's going on here.

0:52BubblemanMight have to revamp here. No, it's not starting for some reason. Very strange. Says Lear... Hmm, weird, it's live and it's not going yet.

1:08BubblemanAh, well, I guess I gotta figure this out here. Oh, here it comes, here it comes. Very good, very good. Now I will send out the links for this wonderful Hash Church episode 98. Gonna send out the link to Indra. As he had an interest on coming back and sharing some information with us today. And of course, we're always excited about that. Send off the link to Chimera through the Skype.

1:32BubblemanAnd then I will go through and send off the link to everyone else. Here we go. Mr. Hemp Guy in the room. Mr. Johnny B in the room. Beat out our original Etienne. Nerfy people come in before Etienne. That was some quick, quick action right there. 280 folks popping away. Well, I think I got that off to everyone this morning, did I not?

2:00Etienne FontanYes, you did.

2:01BubblemanWell, then, perfect. I think I can... That was the longest time YouTube has ever taken to start the chat. I was like, I don't know if this is going to work. I might have to not send out the link. Anyway, it worked. Got the sapphire cleaning up nicely.

2:22SpeakerGood morning. Good morning, John. Hello, Sam.

2:29BubblemanAnother beautiful day. Howdy, howdy.

2:34Etienne FontanHow's everybody doing?

2:37BubblemanOh, doing pretty good over here. Can't complain anyway. Looks like it's going to be another beautiful day and the boat is in the water. The motorcycle is all charged up and insured and I don't know, toys are fun in the summer.

2:51Etienne FontanToys are weak. Yeah, bad echo guys.

2:55BubblemanTry muting your mic.

2:59BubblemanYeah, but do you hear the echo now? Exactly.

3:06BubblemanOnce you mute your mic, that echo will disappear if you unmute your mic. Now, John, that's how we hear it all the time when your mic is unmuted. So there you go. Good to mute that mickey. All right, let's blow some smoke rings to the Vatican. I got my Dabinator plugged in from the D-nail. I go from the D-nail to the Dabinator back and forth. Nice. Nice, ATN.

3:32BubblemanWhat do you got there? Is that your egg?

3:34Etienne FontanYeah, that's the egg today. I'm a tourist kind of guy today. Sweet. I'm wearing a shirt for the City Gallery. You still have a little bit of feedback there, sir. You may want to turn off your sound down here.

3:51Etienne FontanAlright, so give a shout out to the City Gallery there in San Francisco. They opened up an actual glass gallery in San Francisco and they had for the opening was Calm, Darby, Royals, Kurt B, Slinger, Piper, Dan, J.D. Mapleton, Tristan Hodges, Ease, T-Funk, Banjo, Mr. Gray, Mike Luna, Travis Weber, Contrabasso, Amazing. They only open up until the 7th in San Francisco with that show, so if anybody's in San Francisco and want to go to some cool art gallery, they're in the Tenderloin.

4:28Etienne FontanIt's going on right now. It's pretty awesome glass if you want some fat glass.

4:37Etienne FontanIs the glass actually overweight? Yeah, it weighs so much, man. You know, they're like, oh, mm, too heavy. You know, there's the diet section, and then there's the regular section with the really fat glass, with the pH, you know, because everybody loves fat glass.

4:53BubblemanIt's the only glass.

4:58SpeakerYou never know. You know, a glass blower could have got a little carried away. Could have happened.

5:09SpeakerUh-huh.

5:10BubblemanThe old In-N-Out Burger. It'll be the death of glass. Dude, you know what's really weird?

5:15SpeakerEvery time John Morgan would visit me, he would... Who has the bad-ass headphones, Mark? Mark has the bad-ass headphones. Still doesn't have headphones. Oh, Mark.

5:28BubblemanI heard it was ATN.

5:31Etienne FontanYeah, I blew the... I heard it was me. Don't make me get middle fingers.

5:42SpeakerHey, what are you doing, bubble man? If you're going to flip anyone off, just flip me off, okay? Because I'm going to get mad. It'll be okay. I can handle it.

5:51BubblemanI'm happy to say that Indra realized nobody flipped him off. He went back, he looked through it, and he realized it was just Johnny's index fingers going like this. That looked like a flip off.

6:05SpeakerIt was just tribute to Ozzy. It was nothing. It was like stupid.

6:09BubblemanHe also mentioned that he watches people's mannerisms and their facial expressions and he was also putting that together a little bit with why he thought it was the finger. So he knows you didn't give him the finger, Johnny B. He has nothing but love for everyone on the Hash Church panel and we should see him here in the next 15 or 20 minutes. Hopefully I did send him the link earlier or so.

6:33Etienne FontanThat's awesome. He's an amazing gentleman and such a humbling gentleman to listen to and somebody that I'm glad he has an opportunity to speak out in a way that those who need to listen are.

6:49BubblemanYeah, I enjoyed having him on. I thought it was great. I look forward to him again today. He wanted to come on and share some information about his pruning and his trimming techniques that he uses on his plants so it should be interesting and in the meantime, Mark, Let's dip some rosin into some terps.

7:11Etienne FontanAnd what flavor? Okay.

7:15SpeakerMany flavors, many flavors. I got to ask Mark, what did you change? How do you have this audio loop over there in Canada?

7:22BubblemanI'll tell you what, Todd, I won't turn my mic on again. You guys go ahead. Just please moderate the room for me so I'm unable to, I won't be able to talk when it's quiet. So if you guys can do that, I'll see you.

7:34SpeakerNo, you can talk to us, just you never have a loop. How do you suddenly have a loop?

7:40Etienne FontanIs your YouTube sound on?

7:41SpeakerYeah, I don't understand why Mark's looping. Mark is now quiet as can be. Oh, this is going to be the mime show. This is going to be really funny. Mark, can you mime everything? I think he's miming Let's Get High. That looks like Let's Get High. I know that looks like Let's Get High. I think let's blow some smoke to the Vatican. I just hope he leaves the camera on you the whole time, ATN.

8:04SpeakerThat would be perfect.

8:08SpeakerHey, it's Sam. Good morning from... Hi, Sam. I was going to talk about these fake turps that I got from somebody. And we determined that it was three different type of turpies to try and make up a cannabis turpene.

8:22Etienne FontanOh, they're trying to do flavors and scents?

8:25SpeakerYeah, we got these from, I'm not going to think of the name that Darren comes on, he'll remind me, it's a blue dream, but I was talking with Horatio, and he's like, these are definitely not cannabis derived, and we determined that just by the flavors and stuff. People are really just trying to come up with something. I think a lot of people are mixing together natural terpenes found outside of cannabis and coming out of their profiles.

8:49SpeakerA lot of people are doing that. Even the people that gave me the true terpenes that I've been loving smelling and everything, they've been mixing them together and making cannabis profiles too using the data that you see coming out of the lab.

9:08SpeakerThis one, I did a job with it the other day because I wanted to try it and it just made me cough and it wasn't right. I'm not smoking, you know, I'm not trying to inhale a lot of hydrocarbons personally. I see what the high alkaline things do to, you know, fats and I think that... That's just not what I need in my lungs. I mean, you know, I think that the terpene levels in cannabis are so minute that it's not a conversation.

9:36SpeakerBut when you start taking terpenes derived from all these other sources and then whipping them together in a bottle, I don't know. They smell nice, and I would smell them, but would I inhale them? Scaldone, what's your feelings on inhaling artificial? You have to treat each terpene differently, though, really. I mean, each terpene isn't the same.

9:58Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, yep, absolutely. I mean, yeah, you would put butter on your toast or butter on a bagel, but you wouldn't just consume butter. Well, I don't know, maybe you would.

10:09Etienne FontanWell, we could dab butter. I haven't tried that, right? Hey, can I get some of that unsalted?

10:16Dr Mark ScialdoneI always like the deep fried butter, you know, where they take a frozen stick of butter and they bread it and they fry it, they deep fry it. Obviously, there's nothing left, right? Because all the butter just comes out in the deep-frying process, doesn't it?

10:32SpeakerYou know, I kind of already miss Mark, man. Can you mime something, Mark? Deep-fried butter?

10:37Etienne FontanYeah, that's totally an American thing. We do these things at these places.

10:43SpeakerMark just flipped you guys off. I felt it, man. All the way down to California, bro.

10:51Etienne FontanI need more butter. How's Amsterdam there, Sam?

10:55SpeakerIt's great. Actually, quite a nice day today. It's been raining off and on the last week, but today was nice. Hold up. Wait a minute. It was raining in Amsterdam? No way. No, it was actually just liquid sunshine. Liquid sunshine. Oh, that's awesome. I wish it was just...

11:14Etienne FontanI got sunshine all over me.

11:17SpeakerLiquid orange sunshine, right? That's something completely different. Whoa. I did a year with him. You would have liked him, Skeldo. Nick Sand was a protege chemist. His dad was a chemist in the 40s and 50s, and he learned from his dad and became one of the, him and Housley making all the LSD for the Brotherhood back in the day. What was his name? His name is Nick Sand, Nicholas Sand.

11:43SpeakerHe's a really nice guy, Nicholas Sand. He was responsible for the Orange Sunshine. And he's still around? Nick is very much still alive. He and I were both in Terminal Island together in the year 2000, so we used to hang out, do yoga. We used to do sweats together with the Native Americans and And he would teach me organic chemistry, and I showed him Alexander Shulgin's books for the first time.

12:05SpeakerP. Cowell and T. Cowell blew his mind. He couldn't believe all those recipes were published.

12:10Dr Mark ScialdoneSo he was a protege of Owsley, did you say?

12:13SpeakerNo, no, no. Him and Owsley were equals. He was a protege of his dad, dude. He grew up in a lab, so his dad was a chemist, and Nick became a chemist, too. No, him and Owsley were probably two of the only guys around, you know, that were private that could make LSD by the kilo.

12:29Etienne FontanYeah, when I met Bear last time when he was still around, he told me he had three pharmaceutical companies in Australia still making it, supposedly. But no, I was fortunate. I actually had some orange sunshine 20 years ago. Some friend of mine used to, he actually moved into a house in Berkeley that turned out to be the old print house for all the old posters, the psychedelic posters.

12:54Etienne FontanAnd when he moves into the house, he has all the plates. All the plates, every single one. So he started to trade those plates for real art. And so he's collected real rare dead art from Eric Griffith and all those guys by trading these plates to people. And one day he actually traded a pack of Orange Sunshine and Purple Haze, which were time capsules sealed with 100 each.

13:21Etienne FontanAnd I was very fortunate to try both. And I have to say, hands down, the best LSD I've ever, ever had. And it was 30 years old by the time I had it, and it was fucking amazing.

13:33Dr Mark ScialdoneWow.

13:36Etienne FontanIt was in little micro barrels so you could crush it in between quarters and then snort it, and the acid would come on within 15 minutes so beautifully. It was the most amazing LSD, I mean, solid all the way around. And that's stable after that many years, too. It was... Beyond humbling.

13:55SpeakerI was in Laguna when the Brotherhood had their festival and they had a helicopter drop carnations and little cards which had a hit of sunshine onto them. They dropped thousands of these.

14:12Etienne FontanHow high up were they when they dropped them?

14:16SpeakerDoes the acid count? I don't know, a few hundred meters, but pretty soon the audience was actually a lot higher than the helicopter. Oh yeah, way. The helicopters were beneath them. That's what they call an uplifting experience. Why can't we do that at cannabis events? Just drop.

14:35Etienne FontanThank you for joining us.

14:57Etienne FontanAnd I actually met my ex-wife that way, passing out a thousand joints in Berkeley.

15:02SpeakerAnd I saw this beautiful woman. If nobody's going to take a joint from Ronald Reagan or Nixon, they figure it's going to be just shake. And it is. It is, right? What kind of joke is that? Here's a joint. Not. That's mean, man. It's very weird, man.

15:18Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's a freak with a rubber mask. You take a joint from a freak with a rubber mask, especially if it was a Nixon mask.

15:26SpeakerI don't even think we can walk around in those masks now. Well, here in Vancouver, they've been giving away free joints at all the 420 rallies and all of the July 1sts for years now to everybody in the crowd to make sure everybody's got a joint. A lot of donations have been coming, butts and small popcorn and stuff. I mean, seeing it coming in like crazy over the years, that's...

15:45SpeakerAlways nice to see you.

15:50Etienne FontanYeah, it was not a negative reaction. I passed out all thousand joints and everybody smoked them. But this is People's Park in Berkeley, so, you know, everybody's a tad more educated.

15:59SpeakerI was there at the demonstrations for People's Park when they brought in the helicopters and they were using those sound machines and tear gas from helicopters.

16:11Etienne FontanThat was the riot in the 60s, right?

16:13SpeakerYeah, yeah, yeah, for People's Park, yes, the first one, the big one.

16:17Etienne FontanYeah, that's a mural on the wall, which we still teach people about.

16:22SpeakerIt was not a pleasant experience because they completely overpowered us.

16:27Etienne FontanYeah, they used nothing but physical violence to beat the living shit out of everybody. They even killed people.

16:39Etienne FontanYeah, protest in America turned violent thanks to the police, unfortunately, back then. Gotten a lot better when we did it. They were actually cool. In fact, people came and told me that they saw one of the UC Berkeley police smoking a joint at the actual end of the rally itself, so that made us feel a little bit emboldened. To an extent. But this is 93.

17:04Etienne FontanAny other good LSD stories, people?

17:08SpeakerThis is LSD. My first house experience was in 1985. It was a blonde Lebanese. Got it from the SkyTrain station. Went home. Wow. It was amazing. I'll never forget that. We don't get hashed like that. It's different now. At that same festival in Laguna Beach, I think that was in Christmas of 68 or 69, my mind isn't as good as it used to be, but a friend of mine had 100 hits of orange sunshine in a bottle of orange juice.

17:42SpeakerAnd I was really thirsty, and I came up to him, and we were smoking Brotherhood hand-pressed patties of Afghan that was just killer. And I said, can I have some orange juice? And I took it, and I started chugging away of it until I drank more than half of it. And he looked at me, and his eyes got really big, and he goes, man, there's 100 hits of orange sunshine in that.

18:12Etienne FontanAnd?

18:13SpeakerAnd yeah, there was, and yeah, I did. That was the day Sam proved that you can't OD on LSD. Well, that's one of the days, yes. And I was so, I mean, for a while there, I didn't even have legs or feet. I couldn't see the ground or me. There was no me. Well, fortunately, you didn't need the legs or the feet at that point. No, I was really lucky.

18:37SpeakerI happened to be with my future wife.

18:40Etienne FontanSo you were just pure ego floating in space.

18:43SpeakerOr ego lost, one or the other, yes. Melted ego floating around is what it was, yes. I was actually able to sleep late that night. I was able to get a little bit of sleep. The next morning I woke up and said, let's go back. I love it. Wow. It's kind of funny. Where else could you see guys quite literally sitting with a kilo of hand-pressed Afghani patties, you know, passing out pipes for everybody?

19:18SpeakerI mean, it was unreal. It was really... That's why the police surrounded the event and stopped it. Well, they couldn't stop the event, but they prevented anybody from going in or out unless they had a... A motor bicycle, dirt bike or something like that so they could sneak in. I thought you were going to say they needed their medical LSD card so they could get into the event.

19:43SpeakerYou know, there was a doctor there writing them out. No.

19:48Etienne FontanLarry would have done that if that opportunity had arisen, trust me. Only kidding.

19:53SpeakerThey made it illegal in California in, what, in 66, I think in October 66, they changed it from a misdemeanor to a felony, and it got serious.

20:06Etienne FontanWhen did you first try it, early 60s?

20:11SpeakerA couple years earlier when it was totally legal.

20:18SpeakerSo a silly question then, Sam, when did you first grow grass? I planted my first seeds when I was 15 at Wallach's Music City at Sunset and Vine in their flower box behind their store. And they got, I don't know, a foot or so high and somebody stole them. You got to get them while they're young, you know. That is hilarious. What year were you 15, dare I ask?

20:52Speaker1965. Jeez. God damn. So when did you first start, so when did you plant your first garden and like get into it and start growing grass somewhat seriously? Not until up in Santa Cruz. Early 70s I did a few little grows and then I got a greenhouse and got more serious about it. And I had already been collecting seeds from around the world, so I had a little bit of a head start.

21:30SpeakerWhat was some of the first varietals that you got to, some Mexican seeds, or what was it you got to start with growing? Well, yeah, the first thing I grew was probably Mexican or Colombian, but I also soon had South Indian, Thai, Afghan. You know, Kashmiri, just Nepali, on and on and on. All the really big traditional centers. I either visited them or had friends who did or saw the herb in California that somebody had imported because there used to be an incredible selection of imports in the late 60s and early 70s until homegrown kicked butt.

22:17SpeakerHomegrown did have a really big impact on, California grown had a really big impact on the Thai and the Vietnam weed and the Mexican, Acapulco Gold, all that stuff coming in, I'm sure. Just like medical's doing now, I mean, you don't see Mexican in any of the medical clubs. In the 60s, all cannabis was seeded. You know, to find Simpsonia was really unusual and didn't really start happening until the 70s.

22:45SpeakerThen you could see some like, you know, Acapulco Gold Simpsonia from knowledgeable growers, or you could see Santa Marta Simpsonia from Columbia that was, you know, People down there knew what they were doing. Most people, they just wanted to crank it out. Seeds give you more weight, so gee whiz.

23:08Etienne FontanSo you just started trading seeds with friends locally, and that's how you were able to find these other genetics?

23:13SpeakerNo, what I did, more than trade, I went to all these areas myself and collected them whenever I could. Wow. When did you, so was the point of a lot of the first hybridizations in California an effort to make some of the more tropical varieties that were coming in finish flowering in the more northern climates of Santa Cruz? Well, that, because people were growing outdoors. People were not growing in greenhouses or under lights.

23:46SpeakerOnce they started doing that, then, you know, it changed a lot, but then they wanted, you know, bass, they wanted big buds, you know, they wanted, so, yeah, I mean, you really need to grow outdoors to grow late maturing varieties that, you know, then where you don't have space problems is what I'm talking about.

24:09Etienne FontanDo you remember some of the actual early varietals you had beans of?

24:14SpeakerWell, the earliest stuff I had was South African Durban Poison, which was, the seeds were actually collected by Ed Rosenthal at the Transkey Coffee Shop, who gave them to Jim Goodwin, Mel Frank, and Then those got handed off to me by Jim, but every plant I grew was hermaphrodite, and so I had to grow them for a few years and eliminate anything with any hermaphroditic tendencies, but it was my earliest drug variety for years, and it's still pretty well known up in Canada for being an early outdoor variety, Durban poison.

24:55Etienne FontanWere you separating males from females then, or you were just growing them together initially?

25:00SpeakerNo, I was absolutely separating males because the males also were expressing hermaphrodite problems at first. Really? I was eliminating, yeah, absolutely. How did you tell which was which? Were they really intersex or was it one was more male? I'm presuming just because they were mostly male with a little bit of female, kind of the reverse of what most Hermes are.

25:28Etienne FontanAnd how tall, those are Durban poisons originally, so they had to be pretty tall beasts, eh?

25:32SpeakerWell, you know, Durban poisons are pretty much regular sized plants. I mean, if you grow it long enough, it can be pretty tall. But it does, it flowers early. How are those related to Pollyanna and those old hybrids? I don't think it's in Pollyanna. Pollyanna was, I've got to remember. We need to ask Rob because he developed Pollyanna. No, did he really? I didn't realize that. Oh, yeah, yeah.

26:05SpeakerI think he sold it to Neville.

26:11SpeakerCool. Wow, Rob called me and showed me the really cool hemp field that he's out working on. Amazing to see them there cutting it down and making rope already. It's amazing. Well, you know, there's two kinds of cannabis growers. One grows dope and the other grows...

26:29SpeakerCBD? CBD? Say it, say it. The other drug crop, right? Rope. Rope and rope? Just kidding. Rob was actually saying that the Turkish landrace variety that they were working with actually had a little bit of THC in it, like more than a type 3 plant, like it was actually a few percent. That's because it's a Turkish landrace that's used for both hemp and drug production. Yeah. So, you know, it may have had, you know, considerable CBD and considerable THC in individuals.

27:04SpeakerAs a population, it's not so high, but I bet you anything you can find individuals with a couple years selection by any farmer, they would have a drug variety for sure.

27:16Etienne FontanYeah, we've noticed when we were playing with the hemp that we took drug varietals and made them into hemp twine fiber yarn and found it to be quite exceptional. Whereas, you know, we were forced to grow, you know, compote, et cetera, but it was interesting to see.

27:32SpeakerWhen it was measured against most of the industrial hemp varieties available in the EU, it had a higher fiber content, in fact.

27:44Etienne FontanThat does not surprise me at all.

27:46SpeakerDoesn't mean it's usable because it's real branchy, so I'm not so sure how...

27:51Etienne FontanRight, that was the thing, yeah, you had to practically cottonize it because it's much more branchier. When you grow hemp people, you're growing 300, sometimes 400 seed per square meter, so you're causing a full canopy to grow up with just a lot of stalk, but of course we know that when we grow flower varieties, you know, they branch out, et cetera, you're not growing 300 to 400 seed per...

28:12Etienne FontanThank you for joining us today.

28:43SpeakerYou call it the Manchurian strain. Why do you call it that?

28:46Etienne FontanIt was just a language that the gentleman from Jonestown, Virginia called it that. When we were originally dealing in hemp, Jonestown, Virginia reached out to us because they do historical reproductions. They would buy our hemp and they would buy the twine, the fiber. They would buy it for all their clothing, anything for their horses, webbing for their horses, etc. He referred to it as that, so I've kind of always referred to it as that since.

29:19SpeakerI came across an article once that said it was a The Kentucky is like a Chinese hybrid of some sort, like a Chinese-European hybrid.

29:26Etienne FontanCorrect. That's what they called Manchurian, or at least that's what they called it domestically. And supposedly it was illegal to even get it out of China back in the day, and it was smuggled out of China to have access to it because China didn't want to give up its genetics.

29:43SpeakerYeah, it's interesting. There's actually now what I call biopiracy laws, where you can't actually go and do all these collecting that people have been doing for years. Really? Yeah, the countries are, you know, they consider the natural resources of the country that they're... Natural resources? Yeah, they're heritage of the country right there. Arr, arr, I'm a retired pirate. Arr, arr, arr, arr.

30:08Etienne FontanSteven Landrace is our...

30:11SpeakerThere's a researcher in Italy named Giovanni Appendino, and he's working... He's a really interesting chemist, and he's done work with cannabis, hemp varieties, and looking for all these really rare compounds. But he was working on a project where there's this species called... What is it? The Umbrella Cum. What's the... I'm having a mental block here. I can't remember what it is. But anyway, it's a species that produces CBG.

30:42SpeakerIt's like a non-cannabis plant that produces Heliochrysum Umbrella Cum. That's what it is. And one special variety of this produces CBG. So he's been trying to get seeds of it for years from where they grow in South Africa. And just because of the biopiracy laws and the fact that the government won't let it, you know, they won't let the seeds out of the country. Because they don't want it going into some foreign corporate hands where they're going to exploit it, right?

31:11SpeakerSo, interesting though that there's another plant that produces CBG. Well, it's funny too because I understand these viral piracy because who wants some big giant corporation to make billions of dollars off of the local farmer's work for a thousand years. But at the same time too, they make you pay If you do license it, you have to pay money not only to the government that's been suppressing cannabis for the last few hundred years, but also to the farmers who, it's not theirs.

31:50SpeakerI mean, they are caretakers, but it's not their heritage. It's their forefathers and their forefathers and their forefathers and the forefathers' heritage. Yeah, well, it's not a simple thing because, yeah, I mean, you could give money to every single farmer that's a cannabis farmer today in that area, and it's still not really any sort of equal distribution because they're not the ones, they're merely the caretakers. Yeah, well, it's like, at what point in time does the conversation just become, again, lines on a map?

32:30SpeakerLike, is it a resource that's owned by humanity, or is it a resource that's owned by the humanity of the people in one country? You know, it's like, I don't know, it's just kind of the way the world works these days. You know, we've got these artificial lines on a map, and All these rules follow from it. Not only that, but in the last 40, 50 years, governments around the world have been suppressing.

32:52SpeakerI mean, the best cannabis varieties in Thailand were suppressed, and other places around the world, too. So it's, gee whiz, I mean, the forces working against it are awful strong.

33:07Etienne FontanAnd there's the man himself. Welcome. Welcome, Andrew. Hi, John.

33:14Etienne FontanMike's not working yet. Hold on, let me, can we unmute him?

33:17SpeakerOh, I can't unmute him. You've got to unmute yourself, sir. Yeah, I think you did.

33:21Etienne FontanThere you go. Hi, Andrea. Welcome.

33:24SpeakerHello.

33:27SpeakerCan you hear us? Andrea, can you hear us? Type in chat.

33:37SpeakerI feel like the Beatles are a who song. Tommy, can you hear me?

33:43SpeakerWhat is that? A little straw hemp doll?

33:46Etienne FontanWhat is it? It looks like a Joshua tree or something. I can't see it. A Joshua tree.

33:55SpeakerIt looks like a tree in the stars. Yeah, I wrote tree in stars.

34:01Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's like a girlfriend for Sam.

34:02SpeakerHow dare he not have a stuffed animal, right, Sam? Well, I'm just wondering what's going on here. You just let any old thing on TV?

34:14SpeakerPretty much, yeah. I've got a reverence for old guys. I don't know what it is.

34:19Etienne FontanEspecially old cannabis guys who led the way for all of us to be imbibing what we're ingesting today from flour to methodology. Kind of respect you guys and love you for what you did for us all. Just saying. And, Andrew, no one's going to be flipping you off.

34:42SpeakerNo, guaranteed. I'll keep the thumbs up today. We're going to strap Johnny's fingers down to his wrist. I'm going to strap everything like this today.

34:51Etienne FontanNo lighters in the hands, Johnny B. No lighters in the hands. Okay, get that barn up then.

34:58SpeakerSo, Dr. Sheldon, I was looking at the conference that you're presenting at next couple weeks. Is it the 26th of this month?

35:04Dr Mark ScialdoneYes, sir.

35:06SpeakerIt's 22nd, I think. It's a pretty heavy-hitting panel you're presenting with, or a group of presenters in that afternoon.

35:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, it's cool. I'm psyched to be participating.

35:17SpeakerYeah, it looks like you've got some pretty interesting research you're ready to share with the world.

35:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYep, yep, yep. That's going to be the first time we're going to talk about the hydrogenated cannabis oil out in public, so we're excited.

35:33Etienne FontanRight on. Is it coming to market any time?

35:37Dr Mark ScialdoneComing to market any time, yes. We're working on that right now. But, yeah, I mean, it's a new composition altogether, so we have to make sure that it's safe and effective and that we know, you know, what it's going to do when people consume it.

35:53SpeakerWhat do you mean a new composition altogether? What does he mean a new composition altogether? Well, he's creating new compounds. He's taking THC lardos. And doing a chemical process on it, right? Semi-synthetic?

36:08Dr Mark ScialdoneNo. So what we're doing is when you take THC acid and you hydrogenate it, you make a new compound that's never been made or described until we describe it. So we're the first ones to describe it in the literature.

36:23Etienne FontanAnd this is stable for heating?

36:27Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, typically you hydrogenate compounds with double bonds, which Thank you so much for joining us.

37:03Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us today.

37:22SpeakerYou know, that metabolic activity is how the body clears cannabinoids from the system. So, you know, I got to caution. It's funny that the initial reaction is always, can we smoke it? How does it handle when we heat it up?

37:37Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, it's still a cannabinoid. I mean, you're taking a tetrahydrocannabinoid and you're making what's called a hexahydrocannabinoid. And as we've paid attention to the degradation of THC under acidic conditions, two of the compounds that are made in the acid-mediated degradation of THC are hexahydrocannabinoids. So they're still cannabinoids. We've added hydrogen to the double bond in the north ring of THC. Right. But as we know, when you change chemicals,

38:12SpeakerWe don't really know what they do, so...

38:14Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, right, right. We don't. We don't.

38:17SpeakerWe don't.

38:17Dr Mark ScialdoneNow that said, I have dabbed it, so... And what is... I'm still here. Is it psychoactive? Yes, it's... Yes, psychoactive has a very...

38:27SpeakerSo wait a second. First thing, did you dab it? When you make a process, do you isolate THC and then hydrogenate, or do you hydrogenate a whole oil?

38:36Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, so what we've done is we've done it a couple different ways, but we've taken the... We've just taken high... We've got a high THC or high CBD concentrate, and we've just hydrogenated that. And then the product that we get out of that is the hydrogenated oil.

38:53SpeakerSo have you had that, and you've run that through a lab. So when you say you're dabbing it, are you dabbing something that's free of THC?

39:01Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, there's no more THC left because we've added hydrogen to the double bond of THC. So if someone were to dab this... We've done some cancer work that

39:34Dr Mark ScialdoneI'll talk about it at the meeting, but it definitely still, I mean, you're not completely changing the molecule such that it's not going to bind to the cannabinoid receptors. It still binds to the cannabinoid receptors, apparently.

39:49SpeakerCan you hydroxylate the acid for it? Hydrogenate.

39:52Dr Mark ScialdoneHydrogenate, yes. That's what we did. We hydrogenated the acid form.

39:58SpeakerSo are you hydrogenating all the terps then in the mixture?

40:01Dr Mark ScialdoneYes. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. We hydrogenate everything. That's the whole concept.

40:06Etienne FontanSo what happens to the terps then?

40:08Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. The terps become hydrogenated too. And so the reason why I started looking at this is because about 10 or 15 years ago, I worked on a project where we hydrogenated catmint oil, and so we took catmint oil, the essential oil of catmint, which is enriched with a monoterpenoid called nipetalactone. Nipetalactone is what cats respond to in catmint, so it's kind of like cannabinoids for kitties.

40:39Etienne FontanIt's the trigger mechanism that makes them go, hey.

40:44Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, and it's not just the domestic felines. This goes to... They're clear up to the top of the feline kingdom. They want to eat Twinkies and listen to jazz. As it turns out, the essential oil of catmint is a good insect repellent, but it's also, in our testing, showed to be a skin sensitizer. When you take the oil itself, the oil itself has a very strong, overpowering essence.

41:16Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back.

41:43Dr Mark ScialdoneAlso, hydrogenate. So they all hydrogenate. And when they do, they do create a new essence. And again, this is what I was trying to explain a couple weeks ago is that, you know, the chemist looks at Mother Nature and says, look at what she did in making this group of compounds in the plant. But now the chemist, like me, we can do chemistry to that and make new compositions.

42:07Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd now the sky's the limit because I could draw in a, You know, 250 years of synthetic chemistry since the Germans were making urea in the early 1800s and have a whole cookbook of chemistry that we can apply to plant oils. And rather than do what GW did, which is take a known composition in the clinic, we're going to take new patentable compositions into the clinic that have possibly better and improved properties.

42:37Etienne FontanHeard you, Indra. We could hear you. Indra's starting to come through.

42:39SpeakerBefore we change the subject, I got one more question for you, and I now forgot what it was. So have you done, like, full GCMS or NMR spectra on these mixtures?

42:50Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

42:51SpeakerCool. Are you going to present all that stuff?

42:53Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, yeah. So I'll be giving a talk on this at the ACS meeting, and, yeah, so we filed patents on it, and, yeah. All of that information in there to prove the composition... And then the biological activity, which then shows the utility of the new composition. So we should be able to get an issued patents, and we've filed in the U.S. and all over the world on this.

43:19SpeakerRight on, man. Congratulations. That sounds like some really interesting work. Thanks for sharing that with us. Testing. Testing.

43:25Dr Mark ScialdoneAnybody here? Thanks for asking.

43:28Etienne FontanYes, Andrew, we can hear you. Loud and clear.

43:33SpeakerLoud and clear? Well, hi, guys.

43:35Etienne FontanWelcome, sir.

43:37SpeakerTook me forever to figure out how to make this 1995 headset work, but here it is. And here you are. Welcome. Don't let me interrupt you. I'm just standing by. I did give Mark some pictures of a trim method, which I don't know, maybe you guys are even doing it by now. That is a very, very good method if someone can only grow a certain number of plants.

44:10SpeakerWe have a very good friend of ours is regularly getting 15 to 18 pounds dry per plant by using this method. And I sent Mark some pictures of both the plants and what the stalks must end up looking like. For this trim method to work out. And he has the pictures. I also sent him some pictures of no residue temple balls. And I sent him just some interesting pictures of oils and oils that are loaded with trichromes that you guys might like to look at.

44:53SpeakerI don't know. Anyway. Hey, Bubble Man, maybe you could share those photos on screen share while he's talking? I don't know, he's already on it, of course. Did you say 15 to 18 pounds from one plant? Yeah, dry. These are very, very, this is a very efficacious way. Is that manicured also? It's cleaned, manicured, and in bags. You see the plant there? I don't know how to get it up on the main screen because I don't know how to use... Mark's just got to come off of...

45:28SpeakerIt is on the main screen. You know, you're not saying that that plant right there was 15 pounds. Yeah, I was going to say that's not an 18 pound. Yeah, no, it's not even close, John. You know, we have plants here in Northern California 20 feet high that would blow your mind. Listen... Six months pre-grow before they put them out. This is in Northern California and what you don't notice or you're not seeing because of the...

45:50SpeakerThe way that the picture is being represented, I can't see what it doesn't look like, is that that's in a 500-gallon bucket, and that plant reaches out a good three and a half, four feet. Put the picture of the stem up, Mark. How tall are the plants, Indra? What do you mean? How small are they? No, how tall. How tall are they? If I was standing next to it, I'm 6'2", 6'3", that would be about 8 1⁄2 or 9 feet.

46:25SpeakerThere's the stem. And what we do is we grow the stem up in a tube until it's 4 1⁄2 or 5 feet tall. And we remove the tube without it having branched out. We take a sterile razor... And we cut from the top down in half and then again in fourths. Once the stem's cut in fourths, you lay it out and coat it with root tone. And of course, there's a very good 500 gallons of soil in the box.

47:01SpeakerAnd you keep it covered with the root tone for a while and pretty soon all of those branches that are on those four pieces plus many, many more will come up and you will start to see this huge presentation that can be as far as 22 feet around and 12 or 14 feet high. But my friend has to grow these and he's in an area in Northern California where he can grow 26 only.

47:31SpeakerAnd so this method was developed for that. And believe you me, it might not look like it to you, but if you were standing next to it and you could get the feel of just how big... Is that still one plant except for that one... Every one of these that you see is one plant per container. There's nothing else in any of the containers. They must be starting these things real early then.

47:57SpeakerWell, that's the trick, you know. It's not to sound weird, though, that, you know, when I first went up to Mendocino, Richard Davis was starting his plants, you know, as early as fall, growing them indoors, bringing them out into the greenhouse when they were four or five feet tall established plants. He would lay them down, and then they would spring up. All of the branches would come up.

48:21SpeakerAnd it would create these absolute massive plants that were just huge. And he was getting three to four pounds of Hindu Kush off of it. And it was great. And the skeletons of the plants were so big that after we cut all the buds off, he would put it on the roof of his car and it would look like a massive... Thank you for joining us.

49:10SpeakerThat it wasn't at least worthwhile to look at. You can grow much shorter plants this way. And we've even lately experimented in dividing a stem into eight, cutting it again, and producing an even more fearsome bush. But these are special circumstances that it had to be grown in.

49:35SpeakerWell, all this manipulation has to happen well before the new moon in July or you're not going to be able to get this kind of vegetation growth. So this is all stuff that has to happen. This has to be planned. This has to be going on early. And a lot of that pre-grow has to be happening inside because the winter wouldn't allow it. Well, they're started in the dead of winter under lights and with these 8-inch PVC pipes around each plant.

50:07SpeakerAnd it stops the plant from doing any bifurcation or growing anything. It just goes right up to try to get to that light. And when they get to the right height, we pull that off and make the cut. The previous method we used before this was to grow the plants in that same tube, five feet tall, pull the cover off of it, scrape the entire plant free of everything with a razor blade, We had them coated in root turn and bury it five feet deep in the ground and then the whole thing changed into a root.

50:37SpeakerAnd then a few weeks later it started growing uncontrollably crazy. Those plants grew 24, 25 feet tall. We had them underneath Camouflage nets in Southern California in high desert. And those plants all produced enormous amounts of buds. We even called one of them sea budskit because it just kept producing clear into the winter of the next year. It survived. It wintered over and grew again the following year.

51:07SpeakerOh, it overwintered in SoCal. It overwintered in Southern Cal. And the base of it was... Just a hair short, a millimeter short of being 13 inches in diameter. It was a monstrous thing. When I topped it, my wife was standing down below and I cut the top seven feet off and I looked down at her and I said, here, can you catch this? And she said, yeah.

51:32SpeakerI tossed it down to her and I heard just thump. And I climbed down the ladder. She was laying on the ground. It had hit her and knocked her cold. Oh, no. But these plants, all these plants had an amazing thing because of I think the way we fed them. We used, we went and got rabbit shit from a rabbit farm where they made the rabbits into meat.

51:59SpeakerAnd below the cages were billions of earthworms. They sold earthworms as well. So we bought a couple dump truck loads of the rabbit shit from the rabbit farm. Oak leaf mulch, blood meal, bone meal, some vitamins and some minerals and threw it in. And these plants were just incredible. They just, we would go, after burying them in the ground five feet, nothing would happen for two weeks.

52:26SpeakerAnd then all of a sudden we'd go up there and it would be a three foot tall plant next day. And they just grew like that. And it's because of making a giant root. What is below is what is above. But these plants all had an amazing thing to them. All of them gave us a tremendous amount of trichromes that we were collecting all the time. And that's what eventually led me to start playing around with the trichromes, what's going on, how do we get them more pure, how do we get it without any green in it.

52:59SpeakerSo then I gave Mark a picture of what the trichromes look like when they're scraped off the collector. Do you hear me, Mark?

53:12BubblemanI do hear you. I'm just trying to get those pictures uploaded so I can screen share them right now.

53:18SpeakerOkay. Anyway, that will be a picture of what the new method of collecting the trigrams looks like, which is the method we're using now, high frequency electricity and temperature modulation.

53:38SpeakerI did play around the other night and took a handful of those trichromes and threw them in a glass of icy cold water and afterwards pulled them out and looked in my toy microscope and it was exactly like the picture Mark sent me, just all little balls. So it looks like it might be a good commercial way of Producing that kind of hash that you guys are always talking about.

54:07SpeakerPlease stick with me. I don't remember all the terminology or the names.

54:16SpeakerIt pulls them out in such great quantity that once they're out, then tossing them in water is a whole different experience than the other way. You can see what You can see the stuff separate after about a half an hour and just all the little stems and stuff separate away from the bubbles and then we tried that out too and I can understand where Mark got this story about how much that stuff cost.

54:45SpeakerThere we go.

54:47BubblemanSo that's what you pulled off your electrode or whatever?

54:51SpeakerYeah, that's what comes off of the face plate of the top electrode. We scrape it off into a bucket.

55:03BubblemanAnd then here's some of the hash that you turned it into being an old school or you wanted it to be Temple Ball-esque.

55:11SpeakerWell, you know, back when I started smoking Temple Balls and Honey Oil was the thing and suddenly they went away and so I couldn't stand the thought of not having them anymore. So there it is, they're back. You know what they say, necessity is the mother of invention, right guys? All you guys are busy inventing things out of necessity to keep your head where you want it.

55:40BubblemanWell, you know what I... Oh, sorry, go ahead.

55:43SpeakerNo, I was going to say, I've got some other pictures I'm putting together for a little presentation. This week I'll get you to teach me how to put it up. But I will show you guys the way to make those temple balls like that. How to make them all... Thanks for watching.

56:24BubblemanAnd in the little jar, is that the stuff that you pulled off the electrode, or is that like some cryo oil?

56:31SpeakerThat's oil that is expressed from the trichromes, just squeezed. We put it in a little squeezer and squeezed it out. At the time, we were playing around with it. Thank you for joining us today.

57:14SpeakerMaybe longer. My son would put it in a tube and put a pin, not a pin, but a big round pin sort of behind it and hit it with a hammer and then open it up and smoke what was there and it was all very oily. So early on they were like, how can we do this, Dad?

57:36BubblemanThat's very interesting. Those are rosin techniques that have not been popularized until just this last year, really.

57:45SpeakerWell, I didn't know, you know, I mean, you've got to remember, back when I started doing this, it was hide your ass, you know. The man was looking for people who were doing this sort of thing, and so you didn't want to, you know, put your face up anywhere or tell anyone your name. Right, no doubt about that.

58:08BubblemanHey, I wanted to introduce you, Indra, to Skunk Man Sam, who's also in the room. You guys both have similarities in a way that it's just exciting to have both of you in the room. Between the two of you, I'm sure you have close to 100 years of cannabis knowledge, and I think that it would be cool to just say Skunk Man Sam, Indra, Indra, Skunk Man Sam.

58:34SpeakerHowdy. Glad to meet you.

58:36BubblemanHowdy, howdy. You guys have similar stories when you're talking about back in the 60s in California and Hollywood.

58:46SpeakerAnd Indra, did you travel to India, to Afghanistan, to Nepal? Yes, I did. I spent just shy of 14 years in India. That's probably mostly what happened to me. I disappeared off the scene early on. Where in India? Well, both, I stayed in Bangalore and North India in a little place called Gangotri. Yeah. Gangotri is where the mouth of the Ganga, it's where the river comes out of the ground there.

59:23SpeakerYeah. No, I have not been there, but I've heard of it. I've been to India, I think, 15 times. I lived there a couple of years. I was working mostly in Bombay, but I've been in all the big cities. I've been in the north, in the south, Kashmir. I've been pretty much everywhere in India. My best time in India was when I... I went to Gangotri the first time and I wanted to go to the temple at the top of the pass there.

59:59SpeakerAnd there I met three sadhus who wanted me to, they asked me if I'd like to go to the other two temples. I didn't realize the implications of the question are the answer. At the time, I had some spare time because the hospital that I was working at closes for vacation. And so they asked me if I wanted to, and I said, sure. And the next morning we left, and six months later, we arrived at the third mountain pass.

1:00:29SpeakerAnd I walked for six months with these guys through the mountain passes up high. And all we had for food was what the villagers gave us. What water did you drink? We drank the water from the rivers that were available in the creeks. These guys weren't into, I'm thirsty, let's stop and get a drink. I said, on the second day, I said, wow, beautiful scenery. And the head guy turned around and said, shh, and shushed me up.

1:01:00SpeakerLike, do not talk. It's not necessary to talk. And he didn't even get excited when we came inching around a cliff on the edge of about a two-foot-wide walk. And on the boulder across from the cliff, there was a tigress sitting there. And he just stopped. We all just stopped, except for me. My colon was busy making a brick. And the tiger... Looked at us and then we heard this little tinkling sound and the tiger looked down on the trail from the rock and there were these five or six Himalayan goats.

1:01:37SpeakerThe lead goat had a bell on walking across this very steep territory. She jumped off the rock, grabbed that goat in her mouth and took off down the hill and we started walking again. No one said a word. But it took me about four hours of intense walking to work off the adrenaline from that one. I thought Hindus didn't believe in sacrificial goats. I don't think it was a sacrificial goat.

1:02:02SpeakerI think it was a goat who wasn't paying fucking attention. Yeah, well, he was sacrificed for your way. Well, maybe so, but I didn't have anything to do with it. As I said, I was just walking, taking a walk in the country with these sadhus. We saw a lot of wild creatures and a lot of wild animals. It was an amazing trip. The most amazing part of the trip was not saying anything for six months.

1:02:28SpeakerFirst six months. Is that something you recommend?

1:02:34SpeakerIt was a refreshing view of life. I started noticing a lot of things. And after that walk is when I met a guy who asked me if I wanted to go to Nepal and I went to Nepal with him and we went to a temple where these guys were making temple balls regularly and I watched how they made them. What year was that? Oh, geez. That would be 1989.

1:03:02SpeakerOr 1988, I'm not sure which. Cannabis and the various products were totally legal in Nepal before 72. Well, these guys were making them on a regular basis and they had a big building. They were taking them over and storing them in. But, I mean, I watched them and I saw how they did it, but I don't use that method. They use a lot of solvents. One thing I can tell you, I saw them making different colors of hash and how they make it.

1:03:37SpeakerThey select, for instance, for red hash, they select a red oil, but then they take the trichromes out in the sun and age them until they're very, very red. Then they bring them back in and combine them with a solvent. And lo and behold, at the end they have red hash. They also made black and brown and green. And did you know Eldon? Eldon?

1:04:05BubblemanYeah, Eldon. Eldon is one of the, Eldon really is responsible for the bags in a sense because he was the one that was sitting on Mila's couch while she was showing the extra, the triple extractor machine which is Reinhard Delp's water hash machine that he came out with in the 90s there, 97, I think he brought it to the cannabis cup and it was Eldon sitting on the couch who said two nylon bags with screen bottoms and a five gallon bucket and you have the same thing.

1:04:34BubblemanEldon definitely had a good history with Hashish and Nepal.

1:04:39SpeakerYou know, I never met the guy in person. I met Neville and all those people in Amsterdam. But, you know, I was living in India and coming to Amsterdam for like three weeks and then back to India.

1:04:54BubblemanRight. You know Steve in Amsterdam.

1:04:59SpeakerOh, well, Steve and I are, you know, he was the first one I showed the Oil, too, after I started making it. I walked in and...

1:05:07BubblemanRight. For those of you who are wondering who we're talking about, he goes by the nose.

1:05:15SpeakerYeah. Yeah, Steve's quite famous in Amsterdam. He had a shop right across the street from the train station. I remember it.

1:05:21BubblemanIt was awesome when he had that little shop. It was surreal to say the least.

1:05:26SpeakerOh yeah, he sold everything in there. Mushrooms, Philosopher's Stones, which I became a big fan of, and all kinds of hash and flowers. But he had upper shelf, top shelf stuff.

1:05:41BubblemanIt's where I first saw your oil.

1:05:44SpeakerYeah, well, like I said, he had top shelf stuff. You should have seen the oil we were making in India. We had a, I had a place that had a 3,000 square foot roof on it and no houses anywhere around it. And you plant a seed in India, in South India in the soil, and from the second set of leaves onward it starts budding. And they would just grow up two foot tall buds.

1:06:09SpeakerNo branches, no nothing. Just these huge buds that were unbelievable. I'd make oil out of them and we'd take it to Goa and people would, we would literally be there two hours and sell a half a gallon of oil. One person would find it and go, no, where'd you get this? Wait a minute, I'll be right back. You got more? Where in Kerala? Where in Kerala? Didn't you say South India?

1:06:38SpeakerYeah, but I didn't say Kerala. Out in the middle of the desert in South India in a place called Puttaparthi. Okay. Yeah. I had spent a lot of time in Kerala, or at least several visits to the actual ganja farms, and I found Kerala grass to be maybe the best marijuana available in India at the time. Kerala is the only communist state in India, interestingly enough. When you go there and you check in the hotel, you sign in and then you say, hey, can I get somebody to help me with my bags?

1:07:18SpeakerThe desk clerk says, that's not my job, comrade. Well, if you stay at a five-star hotel, that's not true at all. Well, five-star hotels. Hey, I was in India serving the poor, so I didn't get to many five-star hotels. I did drive by them and see them, but I was staying in two-star hotels or mud huts with the people that I was providing medical services for. Well, the first year I went to India, Both me and my wife hitchhiked across India, so I've seen it from both sides.

1:07:54SpeakerBut to be honest, at night when I'm sleeping, I prefer a five-star hotel. Oh, well, you know, I'm not saying that's not what I would have liked. But staying in the villages with the people that I was working with was also very fulfilling and rewarding because they were giving you the best that they had available. And they treated you like a god because you were bringing medicine to them.

1:08:25SpeakerThey would, after the end of the day, they'd want to come with a bucket and wash your feet.

1:08:30BubblemanAnd was that medicine cannabis medicines or were you doing like other medicines as well?

1:08:35SpeakerI wasn't giving anybody any cannabis medicines while I was there. No. I was strictly operating as an osteopath, which is what I was classically trained as. I didn't... You know, in India, you can go any morning to a local stand and get a drink called bhang, which is milk and fresh marijuana leaves blended together. Yes, I had it. Delicious. Very delicious.

1:09:06BubblemanGets you super ripped, too, if they use good material. Because we bought some from a guy that I guess wasn't using leaf. He was using hash.

1:09:17SpeakerYeah, a hash bong.

1:09:18BubblemanA hash lassie.

1:09:21SpeakerCan't find your ass with both hands afterwards, but really, really good stuff.

1:09:28BubblemanYeah, I suspect those balls that Sam has been making for years would be much along the same vein.

1:09:38SpeakerThe hash candies I used to make had either a Thank you for watching.

1:10:03SpeakerHey, Andrea, can I ask you, you know, in the first posting you made back in 99, it just quizzled me why you would recommend PVC as the tube of choice. Could you talk about that? Well, I don't remember saying that it had to be PVC. Maybe you got the post there or something, but I don't remember. I think the very first time I did it, Like everybody else, I was... Can I ask you this then?

1:10:37SpeakerIf you don't remember what you wrote in the post, when did you first post about BHO and where? Well, I posted it on the Cactus bulletin board. I was busy talking about... Somebody was asking for different methods to get the mescaline out of cactus that weren't 15-step methods. So I posted it as a, what you do is you grind up your cactus, you dry it, put it in a pipe, hole in the bottom, and pass gas through it and watch your crystals form.

1:11:15SpeakerAnd so then somebody on the board said, hey, what else does that work with? Or will that work with pot? I don't remember. It's been a long time ago. And I said, yeah, it worked the same way with pot. Now, I might have said that about the cactus extraction, putting it in a PVC pipe. But I'd have to see that. I haven't seen that post since 1999.

1:11:36SpeakerI mean, I made it.

1:11:40SpeakerIt created a big fervor. I can put the link in for you. What was the name Indra then? You used the name Indra? Yeah, I just used that because, as I said, back in those days, you didn't want to put your... I understand that, but you're saying the first time you posted... So I'm asking you not about the cactus, specifically about putting cannabis in a PVC tube and putting butane over it.

1:12:10SpeakerOkay, well that came after the cactus talk. Well sure, so when was the first time you posted that? That very night, when we were talking about the cactus. Did you find the mark? I mean the link mark to it?

1:12:27BubblemanYeah, I put it into the room right there. It's the Eeroid one.

1:12:34SpeakerWhere do I find it?

1:12:36BubblemanIt's just top left of this box that you're in, up where it says Google, a bar will appear and it's a little blue box with a white frame and you click that. That opens the chat on the right side of the room and then you go down to the bottom and you'll see where it says, you know, I don't know what my name is in here, Bubble Man's World or whatever.

1:12:55SpeakerOkay.

1:12:56BubblemanAnd you'll see the link there.

1:12:57SpeakerAll right, I'm clicking it up now.

1:13:04BubblemanThat's way old. Do you still have that account?

1:13:10SpeakerI don't even know. You're right. I guess I did say the fucking PVC pipe. And what was it? And Bufo, the Bufo Butane, what's the word Bufo? Hang on just a second. Let me look at it again.

1:13:26BubblemanBofo, the Bofo Butane PVC hasho.

1:13:29SpeakerExcuse me for mispronouncing it. It just seemed like an odd word, so... I figured I would ask. I mean, the PVC was one of the biggest turn-offs of the recipe that I saw when I first saw that. And I also think that the butane and the PVC are reactive towards each other. So I think that's a little odd. So I wanted to ask you why.

1:13:48Dr Mark ScialdoneYou can leach the plasticizer that they use in PVC will leach with butane, yes. Now, the rate at which it leaches is all a function of temperature, surface area, temperature Way beyond the scope of what we need to talk about. But yeah, you could potentially leach plasticizer from any plastic into butane because those are like dioptyl phthalate, new car smell. It's very, very fat soluble.

1:14:17Etienne FontanSo then why didn't you use metal pipe as opposed to PVC?

1:14:20SpeakerWell, it's an easy answer. It was my first time. I was experimenting. And when you're trying something, you're trying it. I noticed at the bottom of that post that I say, according to 1999 standards anyway, it says that the butane and the PVC aren't very reactive. That's what they knew back then. Did you actually write that post, John? Of course I did. Okay. What? You don't believe me?

1:14:54SpeakerIs that what you're saying? No, you know, you're such a stickler for safety and I can't, and when we were talking last, I'll be blunt and honest with you, the idea of, you know, jamming a volatile gas like butane into a brittle plastic PVC that could leach with the use of the butane, to me would be, Not something you would do or recommend and it seemed odd.

1:15:14SpeakerIt seemed a little contradictory in the conversation we first had and I brought it up to Mark and Mark didn't know. He said ask you so I figured I'd ask you and it does surprise me in all honesty that you don't remember what you wrote and what would become a very seminal post that would go like around the internet and create an industry. So it does surprise me a little to put it point blank.

1:15:38SpeakerWell, it's pretty easy when you're trying something out. And in those days, we didn't know. We didn't have that piece of information that the butane was going to leach out of the PVC. It just wasn't known at the time. And it wasn't...

1:15:54Dr Mark ScialdoneWait, wait, wait. I want to just say something. We don't know that it leaches the plasticizer out. The potential is there for it to happen. Theoretically, if you're doing like a cold blast... Very, very little butane is actually coming in contact with the PVC. So I think leaching is until we actually had data.

1:16:16SpeakerHold on though. Can I ask this point blank question? John, you're saying that you were using PVC instead of stainless steel or glass to put the butane through the grass? No. Let me ease your mind a little bit here. I did that once. The very next time I did it, I did it through a big stainless steel pipe in a laboratory setting in my place, and I made sure that the gas was clean and passed the gas through molecular sieves and activated charcoal and a lot of other precautions.

1:16:55SpeakerThat first time was, gee, I wonder if this works. And when it worked... I was busy having a hallelujah and I decided the very next day from that to work to put it on the web because I was happy for the fucking world at the moment that I thought, well, you know what, this is a good deed that the world needs and so I put it out.

1:17:22SpeakerMaybe you can nitpick it now. Not nitpicking it. Hindsight 2020. I'm not necessarily nitpicking it, but look, I've been actively growing since 1984 and shaking hash off my buds for a very long time. I've been tuned into the internet for a very long time. I got my first Mac in November of 1984. And when that post hit Arrowwood, I remember where I was, sitting at my home up in Big Bear Lake, getting eight months away from going to prison for growing over 4,000 plants.

1:17:55SpeakerI was already very into this industry and very into the internet and very into the information. And what struck me funny was the PVC, in all frank honesty, because it seemed like... You know, it's PVC. I don't have to go on. It just sounds really odd to me. And now that I get a chance to ask you, I'm asking you, so don't take offense. I'm not, but you should have messaged me that day, and the next day I would have re-messaged you back that I was busy using something else.

1:18:25SpeakerAnd in fact, there's much later posts where I suddenly say and recommend to people to use pipes and valves instead. Because I did a little study about it and I figured out that the best way to do it was not in anything plastic.

1:18:43BubblemanI would also say this, Indra, on your behalf, because I was also very much a part of the internet. In fact, my posts, if Overgrow was still around today, would still exist from 99 and 2000 and 2001. And I can say that many, many, many people continued to use PBC, and I didn't see Todd or anyone else posting about how you should use A safer substance, and in fact... Mark, I went to prison January 2000.

1:19:11BubblemanI mentioned everyone else. But it was 1999, right? So that was the whole year. You saw the post. It was seminal for you. You probably thought the PVC was weird that day. You had all that time to share with the world that maybe we should use something safer. My point was that... Indra contacted me, and he had already moved way away from PVC. I'm no BHO proponent in any way, but his main concern, which became my main concern, Was the heavy metal contaminants that were oil soluble in the BHO that was bonding molecularly to the oil and being inhaled by people into their lungs, that seemed to be a really serious issue, especially because some of these compounds were accumulative in the body and affected the central nervous system.

1:19:59BubblemanIt seemed like at least as important as not using PVC in my opinion.

1:20:04SpeakerThat's why I got on the rag about don't use the cans of butane anymore. I started that. I started posting everywhere that there was poison, that they had 200 other chemicals in there, and please don't use them. I even tried posting methods to clean the butane, but nobody seemed really interested in that. Everybody was just like, okay, thanks, but does that increase the yield, or does that decrease the yield, or...

1:20:32SpeakerWell, I think over time that people did heed your good information because it became practiced in a lot of places that were legally able to make stuff in the future because, you know, now you see washing in Colorado, you see winterization techniques, cleanup techniques, the gas is cleaned up. They're doing every precaution that they can to make the cleanest material possible. And I think that, you know, it felt maybe like people weren't listening back then, but I Obviously, they got this information from somewhere, and this is where, so they were listening.

1:21:03SpeakerIt's just they, you know, the actions came much after, much longer after the hearing it, you know. And at the time, to be honest, the PVC wasn't, you know, the butane was as much of a turn off as the PVC, to be blunt. I was more of a dry sieve person. I, you know, I was, I thought that using butane as a As a solvent was crazy as well.

1:21:27SpeakerSo both of it seemed nuts to me to be, you know, I'm an organic grower. I mean, you're taking me so far out of my element. And in time I learned to appreciate it and it's useful medicine and I love it and it plays a really positive role in my life. But at first I was as reluctant as any hippie could be. Well, you got to remember a few things about the butane.

1:21:55SpeakerAll the first early stuff was poison. They put all kinds of horseshit in it, and that was to preserve it, to make the flame burn brighter, to make less a yellow flame and more of a blue flame, and all that kind of nonsense. And early on, you can ask Mark, early on I was really worried about this. And I was trying to open up the church of don't use canned butane to make your oil with because there's so much shit in it you don't know what you're smoking.

1:22:26SpeakerAnd some of the stuff, like if you just went and got picnic gas, the metacarpins in it are actually a central nervous system stimulant. And so therefore, You're getting a CNS reaction in your body that nobody really understands yet are what happens from long-term use. And so picnic gas is definitely not a good thing to do it with either unless... Unless you start off with 99.9%, you're asking for a lot of other problems that I don't think anybody is interested in having.

1:23:02SpeakerOtherwise, if you can get pure butane or pure isobutane or pure n-butane, all of those things are, by the way, organic solvents in case you're not aware of that. They're all considered by the extraction industry as an organic solvent. They come out of the ground. They're a fraction of stuff that's organic. And so saying that it's not an organic process is a misleading or a misnomer of a statement.

1:23:30SpeakerAnd I totally understand that now too. And then really what brought me around was researching it and learning it and having an open mind and being more of a science-minded individual. And I understand that butane is an organic gas and an organic solvent. And I get it totally now. And I just... When you're a hippie and you're using butane to fill up your lighter, it doesn't feel like an organic experience.

1:23:58SpeakerNobody was more mortified than I when I found out that there was trash in those things. Believe you me, I got a hold of Mark so fast, he's probably thinking, who the fuck is this guy? He's coming out of the left woods telling me this, that, and the other. But he did listen. He paid close attention to what I was saying. And he wrote me back. And he said, well, I think you've got a point.

1:24:24SpeakerLike I said, it takes the world about 10 years or so to listen to something.

1:24:29BubblemanIt's one of the reasons why people thought I hated on BHO so much, which was hilarious because I was like, no, you don't understand. It's like the grandfather of BHO is asking me to share this information because when he comes to share it to you, you don't know who he is and you all just fire at him and they were attacking you online.

1:24:48SpeakerYeah, I know. I got used to that over the years.

1:24:54Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you mentioned one thing, John, which is that if the butane is distilled, you know, in closed-loop extraction, you distill your butane. And so in your first run, you basically do a run with just marbles in the column or whatever. You throw away that run, and then you recover the butane. And when you recover the butane, you've distilled the butane from any heavies that are left behind.

1:25:18SpeakerWell, let me say back to you what you're saying to me now so that you can see some of the folly in that statement. You're not distilling your butane. You're recovering the butane from an extraction. And whatever other trash our carbon has... No, no, no.

1:25:33Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm not saying you're using it in a distraction. I'm saying you pre-distill your butane before you use it.

1:25:39SpeakerListen, I've seen what they... I'm not saying... I've seen what they call pre-distilling. And it ain't the real thing, my friend. It's just not... You know, when you get 99.99% pure butane, everything you do to it from that moment forward starts to contaminate it. It is no longer 99.99%. And when you... What happens to it? You can't... It requires... Things to it. In order to keep it pure, you've got to pass it through about a three foot column full of activated charcoal and five to seven nanometer molecular sieves.

1:26:21SpeakerAnd if you go to the trouble of passing it through that column two or three times, you're still going to have 99%. Otherwise, all sorts of little things enter into it. And you can talk with an organic chemist. The temperature, the stuff that you're extracting, what's in it, how to get it back out. And when you distill it, are you putting the byproducts of the distillation, may I ask?

1:26:45Dr Mark ScialdoneI am an organic chemist.

1:26:48SpeakerOkay, so where are you putting the byproducts when you distill your butane? Where are your byproducts going? What do you do with them?

1:26:58Dr Mark ScialdoneThey're just heavies that are in your pot. You clean them out. You can take them away from the pot, right? The point is that you can clean up butane. I'm not saying that... Butane is not completely...

1:27:10BubblemanHe's just asking what you're doing with the heavy metals once you've got them.

1:27:15Dr Mark ScialdoneIn a distillation, that's just part of what remains in the pot. What you've distilled over is your distillate. So your distillate is your purified butane.

1:27:26BubblemanBut what do you do with the heavy metals, the contaminants?

1:27:29Dr Mark ScialdoneYou throw it away. It's contaminated waste.

1:27:32BubblemanBut isn't it toxic waste? You just throw that in the garbage? Yeah, but there's... No, no, no. You can...

1:27:37Dr Mark ScialdoneThere are companies that will take it away.

1:27:39BubblemanI think that's maybe what he was asking. I'm not sure.

1:27:42Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, okay. There's companies that will take it away and dispose of it under tax guidelines.

1:27:49SpeakerHow much material do you find in the bottom of the pot after that and what does it analyze out to be? Because I know you're an organic chemist and I'm not, but I do happen to have a gas chromatograph and a mass spectrophotometer sitting in my basement hooked up that I use all the time. So I'm interested in what you're finding when you analyze the bottom of the pot after you've distilled it.

1:28:14SpeakerWell, what are you finding? Me? I don't distill it. I told you what I do. I pass mine through activated charcoal and five to seven nanometer molecular sieves. And I pack that in with cotton on both ends and I pass it to that. And when I pass it to that five times and I run it back to the gas chromatograph, I get nothing but butane or isobutane or n-butane or whatever it is I happen to be using in that mixture.

1:28:48SpeakerI mix the gases for different effects. I know you're an organic chemist, okay? And I'm not. But I beat every fucking organic chemist on the planet to the patent, didn't I?

1:29:02Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, we're on the same team, John. Don't make it seem like we're not on the same team. No, no, these are fair questions.

1:29:12SpeakerNo, no, I'm just answering them. No, no, for sure. Well, that's the thing I wanted to say is, like, you know, people do ask tough questions, but when the questions come out, you've got the right answers, so... I think you're legit, you know. Don't take offense because I asked about PVC, John. I don't at all. I just wanted to explain to you that when I did that, hey, I was 20 some odd years younger.

1:29:37SpeakerI wasn't busy doing that at the time. At the time, I was working. Listen, I have a lot of posts on Arrowhead. Okay? Not all under Indra. And the reason that I have posts on Earwood is I used to be on a board called The Bees. And it was a board where people talked about making something else. And I was famous for my posts on that board about workarounds to organic chemistry that all of the fucking chemists on the board, no one thought of.

1:30:14SpeakerAnd they're all posts, but I used to win contests on it. Like people were always talking about this one reaction where you have to vacuum off all of the acid out of this reaction in order to have the product, which is the red oil. And everybody was talking about, yeah, every time you run that, it costs 800 bucks for the vacuum pump. And I walk on one day and I said, well, gee, why not pour the whole thing into a five-gallon bucket of water and then when the oil floats up, separate it off and get rid of the water instead of a vacuum pump.

1:30:44SpeakerOh, everybody was fucking tickled pink when I came up with that one, and a lot of other ones. But that's the way my head works. I look at a process and I think to myself, what about it? Can I make it so I can either understand it or do it better?

1:31:02Dr Mark ScialdoneSomebody should have pushed you into an organic chemistry lab early in your college career. We'd be living in a different world, maybe.

1:31:14SpeakerI'm glad you're on the path you're on. I've definitely enjoyed the learning curve, sir. Yeah, I gotta say too, Indra, that tuning fork mechanism in the patent is actually really quite brilliant. It's a totally out-of-the-box way of thinking that solved a common problem, you know, and I thought that was really, really beautiful. Well, thank you. I was scared to death to put an electric switch inside the A cylinder full of flammable gas.

1:31:45SpeakerNeedless to say, I looked at all the switches that were available and I said, every one of these when I read the specs over it makes that, you know when you look over the edge of a really tall building and you look down, you know that feeling? Every one of them gave me that feeling and I was sitting there pondering to myself and to be perfectly honest, I saw this guy on TV Who was trying to tune a fucking harp in a swimming pool underwater.

1:32:15SpeakerAnd that's where that tuning fork idea was born from. Really cool. And so it just, it made me... It made me feel safe to do it. And, you know, somewhere hidden in the middle of the West, I have a chamber that can hold 2,500 kgs of extraction material, whatever that might be, hay or whatever. And when you've got 2,500 kgs in and you've just put in 1,500 gallons of a butane gas mix liquid, you want to...

1:32:52SpeakerYou know, I made it out of inch thick 316 stainless that was cold rolled to make it even tougher. And the lid that we put on it weighed 1,500 pounds and had to be put on with a hydraulic system to take it off and on. Plus it had two and a half inch bolts all the way around it just a few inches apart. And I had to stand there the first day After my partner, my Swiss partner said, well, are we going to try and start it?

1:33:20SpeakerAnd I said, yeah, but let me tell you, I was, you know, my colon, I've made many bricks in my life. I could build a building out of the bricks I've made in my colon at various points in time. And we flipped that puppy on, it filled up, and when it hit that tuning fork, it shut the whole system down. Everybody else was like, yay, and I was saying, fucking God.

1:33:47SpeakerYeah, the feeling almost better than the aha moment, right? Oh yeah, afterwards it was like, you know, I went somewhere and sat down and had some food and felt good about myself for half an hour. What year was that in? Oh, God, that was in the late 80s when that one got built. It took us four years to build it, find a spot, find somebody that was willing to cold roll a 12-foot wide sheet of 316 stainless steel.

1:34:25SpeakerIt took a year. What was the purpose of the machine then? Obviously you weren't blasting grass and putting BHO into dispensaries that didn't exist. So what would you do with something that size? What was it you were extracting? We were extracting, well, the very second extraction I did was two 40-foot containers of roses from Romania sent there by Roberta. They were fresh and we ground them up and put them in it and we made it.

1:34:55SpeakerBetween those two things, we made a 30-gallon drum of white rose oil, which is the finest rose oil. $18,000 a pint is what it's valued at. And that's what we were shooting for was high-end extractions.

1:35:13SpeakerAll kinds of people showed up at our doorstep. I mean, the strangest thing was Swanson showed up at our doorstep with a truckload of frozen fried chicken and wanted to know if we could extract the excess oil out of it. We did, but I never... Wanted to do that again because it made such a mess it took us two months to clean the equipment. I hope you charged them extra, those poor chickens.

1:35:40SpeakerI charged them $10,000 to clean up. They bitched and bitched and bitched, but so what? I just said, you know, from now on if you want to do this, here's the plans.

1:35:50Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd did that stuff get sold as food product?

1:35:54SpeakerI don't know what they did with it.

1:35:56Dr Mark ScialdoneDid they continue extracting fried chicken?

1:36:00SpeakerWell, not that question, but it leads me to this question, that really what you shared with the world was something that is being used as an extraction method in a lot of applications around us that we don't even realize. That's right. Almost all your food... These days it's extracted by it. It's definitely, I license to a lot of companies to do food, flowers, drugs. Get this, I won't even get to have any ha-ha's out of it, but in Tasmania, they're looking into using it as a direct method for making morphine out of whatever the poppy things do.

1:36:46SpeakerSo I... That's incredible. So you know what though, so what the next thing is I want to say is that there are safe facilities in states and countries all over the world that are using similar methods to your patent to extract legal commodities, not cannabis, and put it into market. That's right. Lots of them. Lots of them. So this is not a foreign applicant, really. These kids with their closed loops and their open blasting, they're just mimicking what has been created in the food industry for over two decades now.

1:37:24SpeakerWell, I mean, if you check back on my patents, the food industry started using it when I came out with the patents. So it wasn't like I got it. Thank you for joining us today.

1:37:59SpeakerUh, Switzerland sent me, uh, a sheet of papers showing me the past and he told me, you, um, what he found unusual about my patent, the most unusual thing about it was he said he searched back 50 years and could find no mention of people using the solvent itself as a coolant. These, these guys who do these, uh, um, Closed loop systems now, they have a couple of problems.

1:38:28SpeakerThey have a lot of problems actually. But when they get it down there and they start recovering it, it gets very cold and the recovery slows down and that makes everything go slow. So what I did was I wrapped a copper pipe around the bottom chamber and as I recover the gas from the chamber, it gets very hot. And I feed it directly through that copper pipe around the bottom chamber and then into the recovery.

1:38:57SpeakerAnd what that does is it makes the laws of physics your voltage regulator because it will never heat up too much like if you're using electricity or whatever you're using to heat it. And as the gas grows less, it makes less and less heat until finally it shuts itself off and it's over with because there's no more gas to compress. So There's no more heat being made from it.

1:39:20SpeakerThat's a big step in the right direction because I'm using the very same solvent that's right in with the material as a method of keeping the heat or keeping the cold away from the bottom extraction. And then I wrap another copper tube around the upper chamber and we pass that through a

1:39:44SpeakerA heat exchanger. And the heat exchanger I use a steam generator on, and I heat the gas up until it's about 220 degrees. And this gives you one complete extraction. I mean, it leaves nothing behind that might We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

1:40:28SpeakerSo it's a simple method, but nobody thought of it before now. And I think it makes the process a lot safer. You're not trying to heat those things up. And I've seen all kinds of stories, people using pot plates with sand on them and all kinds of crap to aid the process. And I'm like, ooh, man, you guys are like, are you that desperate for money to take your life in your hands and your family and everybody around you?

1:40:55SpeakerYeah, well, they don't understand it, you know. They don't understand the whole process and that's the problem.

1:41:04SpeakerWell, I want to teach everybody how the fucking process works. Well, you know, I know you said you were going to twist some people's arms. I think that might be a good idea for you to come in and actually start enforcing your patent in some places because you can actually put, you know, it sounds like you've got a lot of the The kinks and the issues that come up when you're doing a butane extraction or that type of gas extraction.

1:41:29SpeakerWell, look, I've been doing it for 20 some odd years, and when I was first starting to do it, all these questions popped up in my head, of course, because here was a gas that could blow up and burn, and then I found out this stuff burns at 5,000 degrees. Gee whiz, that's hotter than liquid hydrogen. And so how to make it safe became a big... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:42:16SpeakerI know that, but as an organic chemist, you fully realize that you cannot fucking get all the hexane back out of that. There's going to be a footprint of that shit in there no matter what. And so, it is an organic solvent, but I don't want hexane in my body. Maybe it's okay for some people, maybe it's all right for you. Look, what I developed instead, which we're showing to the extraction industry now, is a continuous extraction process That is a big giant screw in a big tube because nowadays they have seals.

1:42:46SpeakerYou know, like the rotary engines have these fucking seals that can seal an explosion in a chamber. So, I've got this big giant thing that we've put together that we're demoing and it feeds in at the top, it feeds gas in, the oil drains out the bottom and the extracted stuff goes out the top on another side. And that is a way of doing massive amounts. I know what you're saying, well gee whiz, how are we going to do 50,000 tons of beans?

1:43:18SpeakerBecause it's a gas process and it's limited. But it's not limited because this continuous process can process enormous amounts of biomass in 24 hours. Hey, I got a question for you as a non-organic chemist. Can you explain why hexane is not going to make a good solvent for cannabinoids? Because I know a lot of people are using it to wash extracts and clean up extracts and, you know, it has these neurotoxic properties.

1:43:46SpeakerSo why can't we get it out of an oil? Why is it always going to leave a fingerprint? Well, hexane binds itself to the oil in a way that the chemists there can explain to you, I'm sure.

1:43:58Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, it's just a higher boiler than butane. It has two more carbons, right? Because you go from hexane to pentane, which is C5, to hexane, which is C6. So it's a C6. It's just a higher boiler. You can remove hexane to where you can't detect it. I mean,

1:44:19SpeakerYou can, but the product that you're removing it from suffers greatly by those higher boiling temperatures. What you're talking about is that because it's got a higher boiling point, then we start losing terpene.

1:44:31Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, but there's no preferential binding of the molecule itself. Okay.

1:44:36SpeakerWell, can I ask this too because obviously the FDA developed guidelines for the amount of TBHQ that can be found in our food supply. I mean, butane is added as our, and if you could speak to this, John, is TBHQ something that you work with in the food industry? I mean, this is, This is what surprised me when I got into this, and the reason I ask is because in states like Colorado and Washington, they are developing these parts per million levels based on FDA's current guidelines.

1:45:11SpeakerCould you speak to that? Well, the butane, of course... It's absolutely removable, 100% out of it. There's no footprint left behind. In fact, we've even had extracts run through a nuclear magnetic resonance machine, and there's no sign whatsoever. It's 100% pure. And so, you know, hexane... You know, I haven't seen that same demonstration done, so I'm not going to put my foot in my mouth. I don't know.

1:45:43SpeakerBut I know that butane is entirely cleanable from it. Plus, there's a couple of different ways you can do the butane extraction. This is something that may not be obvious in the patent, but if you spray the butane into the container through nozzles, through very fine nozzles, It freezes everything in the container. You get this phenomenon known as adiabatic cooling. And the adiabatic cooling freezes everything up and lets you extract lighter fractions out of the pot by keeping it all frozen than using the hot method.

1:46:28SpeakerThe hot method, you get everything. The spray-in cold method, You get the very lightest fractions. So it's more monoterpene rich, are you saying that? Well, I think so. I recently started collecting any terpenes that were coming out as we were cleaning it. You know, as we were degassing, we collect the terpenes and I got a pretty good sized bottle of them now and they're pretty amazing and I know some people are talking about Putting them back in CO2 extractions to make them smell and taste good.

1:47:10SpeakerBut I don't know. The terpenes are amazing and I haven't really had a chance to have my hands on some like I do now. Now I've got this little bottle and you pop the lid off it and it's incredible. Is it from one single varietal or is it a mixed? No, it's from about, I'm going to say probably about 10 gallons of various oils. We collect them in between the drying cabinet and the vacuum pump.

1:47:50SpeakerOh, it's off your, okay, I see. And we collect the terpenes there. And it takes forever for, I mean, it'll coat it the first time and then 10 gallons later you've got, you know, probably 25 or 30 cc's of it.

1:48:06BubblemanI'm definitely going to have to introduce you to Tony as well, Indra. Welcome, Tony, to the room. Tony does Blue River Extracts. He does the terpene extractions and he's also in California. And I'm definitely going to be linking the two of you guys up.

1:48:21SpeakerWell, hello, Tony.

1:48:25SpeakerWelcome, Tony. Hey, how's it going? I don't have a camera, so sorry.

1:48:31BubblemanOh, okay. You enjoying the conversation, Tony?

1:48:34SpeakerYeah, I am. I was just feeling really sick this morning. Oh, shit. Sorry to hear it, dude. I'm getting these waves of not being nauseous. But no, I am. I was listening to it earlier when I was trying to get ready. As well, really good stuff. I mean, you know, it's like anything else. When somebody creates something and spends a lot of time on it and people get bits and pieces of it and try to go off of it, it always ends up being a little less inferior.

1:49:04SpeakerIt's not as good, you know.

1:49:07Etienne FontanHope you feel better, Tony. Sorry you're not feeling well, buddy. Oh, thanks.

1:49:11SpeakerBut I was really fascinated about what he was just explaining on the recapturing and heating into the electric pump. That was interesting. Yeah, I can see you. Go ahead. What was that part you were saying just now? No, just the part that you were explaining where everyone was messing up with the coil, the copper coil, and then running that through into the pump. That part was really interesting.

1:49:40SpeakerWell, yeah, that's an amazing method to, you know, if you start an extraction and you've got that set up and the copper coils are on the bottom one, you can actually walk away from it a little while rather than sitting there for fucking ever waiting for it to happen, you know. I mean, how many hours have you burned sitting there waiting for that pot on the bottom to get ready?

1:50:04SpeakerImagine if it was ready just as fast as it was you put the stuff in the top. Thank you for watching.

1:50:21SpeakerThis is all dependent on the size of your pot, the size of the wire, you know, all of that. You have to take that all into consideration. And then run it back over to your recovery bottle. And the gas will, a couple of things happen. Besides the fact that the gas regulates the recovery process automatically for you, it also cools the gas down so that it goes back in the recovery bottle way easier.

1:50:47SpeakerAnd believe you me, hot gas is harder to move around, isn't it? It just doesn't want to do the same thing that a cold gas will do. So the gas that comes off the bottom of the recovery chamber from that loop will go back in the bottle easy and it'll simplify your... A lot of people try to sell these things where, hey, run your gas to this and it cools it down.

1:51:09SpeakerNever mind that. Run it around your bottom fucking chamber. Use that cooling for something. Hmm.

1:51:17BubblemanSomeone asked if you're recovering with a copper-based coil.

1:51:22SpeakerWell, actually, no. We're using braided stainless steel with a, let's see, the lining is, what do you call it? Damn. What are the seals are made out of? Yeah, I'm 70. I'm starting to have some of the shit.

1:51:38Dr Mark ScialdoneTalres. Talres?

1:51:41SpeakerMaybe that's it. It's what they make all the gloves out of that you can't have latex on you. They make them out of this instead.

1:51:50SpeakerAnyway, that's what the seals are made out of.

1:51:55Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's probably a fluoropolymer. You think?

1:51:58SpeakerI think it could be. But that's what we use for hoses now all the way throughout. Those are all pressure tested for 3,500 PSI and, you know, blow off.

1:52:09Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's probably either Talrez or another product that's called Viton.

1:52:14SpeakerViton. Viton seals. There you go.

1:52:17Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. It's what the O-rings on the space shell are made out of.

1:52:21SpeakerYeah. Yeah, I like the new way all the cables are ending with that flat thing and you put a rubber O-ring and you go to another flat thing. I love that. It's so much simpler. And we used to use all these quick connect fittings and they only last for a certain amount of time. They start getting gummed up. You got to take them apart. They never seal right afterwards.

1:52:42BubblemanHey, John, can you speak a little bit about, we had a gentleman come in some time ago talking about the mystery oil. That was found in the cans and in the canisters of like butane and propane. I guess it's like an oil that they use to lubricate the nozzles when they're filling the tubes or the... What the hell are they called?

1:53:07Etienne FontanThe tanks.

1:53:08BubblemanThe tanks, yeah, when they're filling the tanks. Is that something that you know anything about? Because I've heard that that's present in... In all of these different tanks, this machine oil that contaminates and gets in from the nozzle where it's transferring.

1:53:23SpeakerAre you talking about the supposedly 99.99% or are you talking about the cans?

1:53:29BubblemanNot cans, but just like tanks. So like, yeah, I mean 99% would be tanks, not 99%, N-butane, propane, anything that comes in a tank, even CO2 they're finding it in. So I was just wondering if they have special tanks for the N-butane or the medical grade that they don't use this machine oil on or something.

1:53:49SpeakerWell, the medical grade, yes, they have special tanks because medical grade potentially could be breathed and so therefore they don't let anything Pass that. The other side of it is I am a firm believer in having three of those columns I mentioned. One, you know, it goes in the top, it goes to the activated charcoal, down to the molecular sleeves, out into the next one, down to the charcoal, out to the molecular sleeves, and the same thing the third time.

1:54:24SpeakerAnd with that, I sleep. Good. You know, I know that the gas is clean, and I'm not going to be finding anything else in there, even if I would have to. But okay, now I'm going to tell you a deep, dark secret. You guys are pushing me in a corner here, but I'm going to tell you anyway. Fuck it. The gases that you buy from these people are pretty pure and everything, but long ago, long ago, I found a place to get some for...

1:54:57Speaker16 years ago, that was the only, and I do mean only, well on earth that produced pure butane, n-butane, and isobutane with no other contaminants. No sulfur dioxide, no nothing in it. Absolutely clean. One guy on the whole fucking planet had it, and I bought 14 tons of it from him. And I had him put it in a big fucking container on a boat and ship it to me.

1:55:28SpeakerAnd when it came, I was completely freaked out because it was like a picnic bottle, but it was on an 18-wheeler, and it was fucking 30 feet long.

1:55:41SpeakerI knew how much it was going to be so previously I bought three old hydrogen tanks from a company that made hydrogen and I had them professionally cleaned and I had them plumbed and I had them on site and when this guy showed up I had spent the previous seven days running a deep vacuum on the whole thing and the truck driver pulls up and he says well look I'm going to go get a motel because it's going to take you two, three, four days to pump this out of here And I said, well, don't be going terrifically long because it might be sooner than that.

1:56:15SpeakerAnd he says, yeah, well, okay. He says, I'll be right down the street. I hooked up this six-inch wide hose to this picnic container. And then I hooked the other side up to the end valve for the system. And I popped open the valve on the vacuum chamber from those three 5,000 gallon hydrogen tanks. And 15 minutes later, that truck was fucking empty. And believe you me, I was scared shitless to open that valve up because here was 14 tons of that shit, guys.

1:56:52Speaker14 tons. I mean, when we looked at the end of the hose, it was just scaring the living dog shit out of us. It scared us so bad. That we went down and bought a brand new hose. The guy was going to lend us one of his and I'm like, no, no, fuck that. I want a new one of these. If I die, it's going to be because I tried not to.

1:57:12SpeakerAnd we went and got the truck driver and he's just like, you guys are just pulling my fucking leg. And I said, well, okay, you can let it sit there as long as you want. Right now it's empty, thanks. And he came over an hour later and he couldn't fucking believe it and drove off. But let me tell you, I went to a lot of trouble to get that gas.

1:57:31SpeakerThat's the only gas of its kind in the world. And I am going to make that gas available to the community. Along with the training and a short license on how to do it properly. And believe you me, this fucking gas mix that I have will blow your fucking mind with the results. It has been blowing people's minds since I started doing it. Ask Mark. I made all kinds of stuff with it.

1:57:56SpeakerAnd it is the premium stuff. And there's no more. The guy that had that well, in case you want to go looking for it, you're not going to find it anymore. Because the well pumped out dry, he went bankrupt, and he's gone. I can't even get any more of it, but I've got 14 tons of it sitting in the middle of nowhere.

1:58:14BubblemanOne of the first pictures you sent me was like some crazy pipe that was like 18 inches or 20 inches in diameter, and it had like several kilos of oil in it that was all like honeycombed And you were like, hey, check, and it had like big like crazy bolt holes that you had taken the top off. I remember seeing that and thinking, man, this guy is fucking something else.

1:58:40SpeakerThose were moonstones. That was when we discovered how to make moonstones. Right, right, moonstones. I don't know if you guys play around with it, but when you make your extraction, and when you're at the very tail end of it, if you can manage to Set your bottom thing in a tub of ice or cold water and continue on with the recovery. What will happen is it will bubble up.

1:59:06SpeakerEverything will get a lot more viscous and it will bubble up, bubble up, and you just carry on until the end of it. When you open it up, there's this giant container of what looks like foam, but it's the oil, and you can just reach in and cut it with a bread knife. Thank you for watching.

1:59:38BubblemanIt was that you had made several fucking kilos of it in one pass. And this was during a time where most people were making like four or five grams and a few people had maybe like made an ounce and showed it. And those guys became the fives and the hash master cuts, the new, you know, the people that everyone assumed were the masters of the BHO method.

2:00:03SpeakerWell, they were the masters of copycatting my method. They were the earliest guys to say, maybe this works and I'll give it a try too. I don't fault them for that.

2:00:13BubblemanNo, no. But I'm just saying, you were sending me pictures of like kilos in a pipe and I was just like, oh my God, like, you're like, don't post these. And I was like, okay, I won't post them, but holy shit.

2:00:26SpeakerWell, you should see the chamber. We have a hundred pound chamber. That we use all the time. And it does 100 pounds out of whack. You should see the bottom chamber when that is finished. In fact, I sent you, you got a picture of some of it that we took out of the bottom chamber there, don't you? The red one?

2:00:48BubblemanYeah, I think I do. Let me check real quick.

2:00:53SpeakerI have a question for you, John. Maybe I missed it earlier. But you said that you were running through active charcoal. Do you run through a carbon, like a Norit, or do you actually run through like an active charcoal? What we do is we have these three columns that we use to keep the gas clean and sweet. And we run just the gas through that. We don't run the extract through that, so don't get confused.

2:01:24SpeakerNow, having said that, if you want your extracts to look prettier and smell really, really nice... Get yourself a bag of one micron material and get yourself a five pound can of molecular saves. Fill the bag up so it shuts so that nothing can get out of it. Get another bag or now you can get sheets of this activated charcoal that won't let it. Thank you for watching.

2:02:22SpeakerDoes it clean up the color or something? It definitely cleans the color up somewhat. It makes it... If it's dark, it'll come more red. There's some dark proponents in it, but listen, it's just color. It's not part of the oil. You can take that THC oil and put it in, for instance, I took an opal and put it in some THC oil for two days. And took it out.

2:02:54SpeakerAnd that opal absorbed that oil to the color. It was red and it made that opal go red in two days. So that oil will absorb and has color in it and it will, depending on, your extraction, if you're not going through something to clean it, is basically a raw extraction. And Whatever else was in the pot that may contribute to the colorizing is in there. And if you pass it through the molecular sieves and the activated charcoal, it doesn't detract from it in any way and it makes it lighter colored.

2:03:40SpeakerSo I use it all the time. In fact, over the years, after 40 years of subjecting your lungs to heated smoke, I got to the point where I only want to use the higher fractions. What I do now is... I do my personal extractions in a very, very, very extreme low temperature. And then when I open the door afterwards, all across the door and all around the top edge of it, I've got these pure white THC crystals that form.

2:04:15SpeakerAnd those are the things that we've been smoking lately because just a tiny, tiny one of those crystals in a pipe is the most amazing. It just blasts you into somewhere else. And so I've kind of adjusted myself. My lungs are sensitive, so I've got to get the most for the least out of it when I smoke now. And also, just recently, I tried vaporizing those crystals, and I think I got pretty high.

2:04:45SpeakerI don't remember much. Just woke up the next day going, wow, did I get blasted last night.

2:04:51BubblemanI think Tony had an experience like that just the other night.

2:04:55SpeakerYeah, it's right here. This is like a gram of, maybe a little more, maybe two grams of those crystals, but I actually added like, Well, we've been using terpenes to crystallize instead of a solvent.

2:05:37SpeakerIn making like CBD crystals, and then this has kind of been, this THCA was derived very similar to what you described in your method, and then all this was was terpenes reintroduced to it, and I agree with you. It makes a super flaky, blonde, unbelievable, unbelievably strong dab. Yeah, I'm not sure that would be the thing to turn loose on the public. Can I show you this, Andrew?

2:06:17SpeakerThis is THCA Crystalline that is available. It is a, what is it? Yeah, this one particularly is Goji THCA, 92%, and it's got a CBD of 0.04, and it's by a company called Guild Extracts that are here in the Bay that are really great. And I've photographed it in high definition, and it's crazy. They look like little quartz crystals. Yeah, I can see. Yeah, they're really quite beautiful.

2:06:53SpeakerI can share the photos with you sometime. But it's remarkable what pure THC looks like. THCA. THCA, of course, yeah, THCA, Crystalline, yeah. Oh, you spilled some. Oh, my God. That was probably $50 worth just now.

2:07:10Dr Mark ScialdoneIt would be a problem if you just spilled some THC because then it would just be a sticky mess, right?

2:07:15SpeakerWell, right, but it's not. I can pick it up really easily off my keyboard, and fortunately I've never had to buy it, so I appreciate all of it I've ever had. Gotta love the ass of it. I got some here, too. I got this from either Roji, I think, or Horatio. It's really quite astonishing. How do they get the bigger crystals? That's incredible. Is that really? That's just by growing.

2:07:40Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's just a purity thing.

2:07:43SpeakerMark, is that really? Is that THC?

2:07:45BubblemanI'll have Tony talk about it. It's CBD, actually.

2:07:48SpeakerYeah, it's CBD chunks, man. Yeah, the size of the crystals is dependent on the purity of the crystals. The purer they make, the bigger the crystals will be born from it. That's from the biochemist, but he is spot on with that. I've been making crystals for years. I've got a book about crystals that I'm going to be coming out with in the next year or so, and what it is is my big chamber that's Out in the middle of nowhere has a six inch viewport into the bottom chamber.

2:08:26SpeakerAnd it's made out of special stuff I got from Germany. That viewport was like, I forget, it was $1,700 or $1,800 for that one viewport. But anyway, there's a light, a circular light on it. And when we would extract different things, and while we were recovering... Crystals would often be born in the affluent right before our eyes. All kinds of crystals. Crystals that we've never seen before that were being born in a chamber void of any oxygen Only butane was in the atmosphere and it was recovering like crazy.

2:09:02SpeakerAnd when the bubbles would burst as the gas was coming out of the oil, it would burst into crystals. And you'd see these crystals fly all over in the chamber, all sorts of them. I watched dinner plates being born. I watched little diamonds. I watched little Ferris wheels, all sorts of stuff being born. So I took pictures over all those years. I took lots and lots and lots of pictures of these primitive crystals.

2:09:27SpeakerBecause these are crystals born outside of the salt process to where you salt something to make it come into a crystal. These are crystals that were born just because they were molecular crystals being born in that raw atmosphere in that chamber. And I'm working on a coffee table book that has pictures of these crystals as they're being born out of this process. And then in the back of the book, I take the oils because I became friends with the water doctor over the years.

2:09:59SpeakerIn the back of the book, I take one drop of oil and I put it on a drop of pure water and I put that in a Petri dish and I put liquid nitrogen around the Petri dish and it freezes the water and the drop of oil. Then I take, yeah, those are beautiful things you guys are showing me, by the way. Then I take the Petri dish and I put it in a cabinet where I have a microscope that's kept at five degrees.

2:10:28SpeakerAnd I can then zoom in with the microscope to the oil on top of the water and I wait until the oil starts to thaw and the water starts to thaw. And at one moment, for about five or six seconds during that process, Whatever flower the oil was derived from will appear in a crystal in the oil floating on top of the water. If it's a rose, it'll be a rose but in crystalline form.

2:10:54SpeakerIf it's a sunflower, it'll show the sunflower in its crystalline form. So that led me to believe that the life energy that was in that plant, when extracted this way, still remained present in the oil. So we called the oils living oils. Nice. That will appear in the back of the book on the coffee table book of the crystals bursting forth in the solution of hydrocarbons.

2:11:22BubblemanI was just sharing some pictures while you were talking about that of some oil that I shot recently and made, so I thought it went along nice with your talk.

2:11:32SpeakerDid I hear correctly, John, that you live in California? Yes. We're in California, in the north-south area. I live in northern California, up by Lost Coast. Okay. Where are you at? I'm in Oakland. Oakland? Yeah. Oh, yeah. We're a drive from you. We're up in the zone, the grow zone. Up by Garberville. Yeah. You're not too far away, though. No, no, in fact, I haven't been down there recently, but the next time I have to go to the VA to find out why I'm still alive, I'll stop by and I'll try and fix it up so I can stop by your place if you like.

2:12:31SpeakerYeah, that would sound good. I could always make the drive up, too. I'd love to hang out with you. Yeah, go off. It's fascinating. I'm going to go up. I'm not going to have you come down. Well, sometimes I have to go there because as a Vietnam veteran, as a wounded Vietnam veteran, I suffer from a lot of stuff from Vietnam. Agent Orange is one of them.

2:13:00SpeakerI'm one of the highest tested Agent Orange people in the country who's still alive. They say that I've got... Maybe with me it's acting as a preservative. I don't know for sure. I was going to say, did you feel that your experiences in the past has led you to being obsessed with resin and creating this oil to such a purity? Was it a patient first thing? No, I wasn't a patient.

2:13:36SpeakerWhen I was in Vietnam, I mean, I went in the Army at age 17 because there was 10 kids in my family and my dad wanted to get rid of me. I was the oldest and I ate more than anybody else. And so he wanted me the hell out of there. So he brought me to the recruiting station one day and said, you're a man now. There's the Army, Navy, Air Force Marines.

2:14:00SpeakerPick one of them and I'll see you. Oh, he gave me a $20 bill. And so I went to Vietnam, and it was hot. It was hotter than a motherfucker. And they started bringing these helicopters spraying around the edge of this camp I was at, Cu Chi, 25th Infantry Division, right at the corner of the Iron Triangle, right in the densest part of the fucking jungle. And it would kill all the stuff.

2:14:25SpeakerIt would all fall back for two, three, four days. And we noticed that when that stuff got on us, it made our skin feel cooler. And so I asked the lieutenant, you know, what's up with this? You know, it's very cooling. He says, it's a defoliant. Don't worry. It's not harmful. And so we would go out when a helicopter would come by, take our fucking clothes off just about and get soaked in it.

2:14:48SpeakerThank you for watching.

2:15:16SpeakerTotally wrapped up into finding out about what the truth was about every fucking thing. And I just was able to, maybe you weren't here the first time around, I wasn't able to get honey oil one day because the Hare Krishnas got busted importing it from India. And I couldn't get it anymore. And that really got me started. You know, it's like, you know, I love smoking pot, but I, fucking honey oil was like, You know, another whole level.

2:15:47SpeakerA whole new level. And so I started really looking into it and looking and looking. And when I got the epiphany about it, I did a terrible thing. I tried it in a butane pipe. I've been thoroughly thrashed about that now. But it worked, and that led me to everything else that I did. One thing led to another. This was one of those diamond old things, you know.

2:16:12Dr Mark ScialdoneDid you say the pipe was made of butane?

2:16:16SpeakerI guess I did. The first time I did, but who knew?

2:16:22Dr Mark ScialdoneThe pipe was made of PVC, and I was using butane in it.

2:16:29SpeakerSorry.

2:16:29Dr Mark ScialdoneI was going to say, if the pipe was made of butane, did you extract with PVC?

2:16:34SpeakerYeah. I get tongue-tied once in a while. You know, you start getting older and that happens to you. But anyway, yeah, I did a bad thing. I used PVC the first time. But then after that, I straightened out.

2:16:48Dr Mark ScialdoneFor the record, as an experimentalist, you did the first experiment. You did the proof of concept experiment, which Can I put an extractable herb into a tube? You bought the tube at Home Depot or whatever. It was PVC, whatever. It worked. So now you move on from there and you develop, yeah, the technology developed from there. Don't worry about it. I applaud you as an experimentalist. Your first experiment worked just fine.

2:17:19SpeakerClearly it points out that necessity is the mother of invention.

2:17:23Dr Mark ScialdoneI used to have a friend in internet security and he used to say incompatibility is the mother of all job security.

2:17:34SpeakerYeah.

2:17:37Dr Mark ScialdoneAnyway, carry on.

2:17:39SpeakerSo, what was I talking about? You were talking about finding the truth about the cooling chemicals from the sky that you were running around naked in. Yeah, well, after that I straightened up and I started realizing that people don't necessarily always tell you the truth or what's good for you. Unless, like if they want to sell you something, they would, you know, sell you the nastiest shit on the planet and tell you how good it was for you.

2:18:07Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, John, in essence, isn't the cooling just the solvent that the Agent Orange was in? Because Agent Orange is a toxic mixture of dioxins and nasty herbicides. Those things don't cool at all. Those are just nasty chemicals. The only thing that's going to cool is if it were like an alcohol solution or some type of solvent-based solution that now felt cool because it was evaporating off your skin, right?

2:18:34SpeakerNo, Agent Orange, by the way, there's Agent Orange, Agent Blue, Agent Green, Agent Red, they were just the color of the barrels that they were in, and they were ready to spray, and they atomized them finally as they flew over you, and of course there was some solvent in it, what, I don't know, but as that evaporated off of you, you were cooled.

2:18:59Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so it was the nature of the solvent, not the Anything about the molecules themselves that made you cool, right?

2:19:06SpeakerNone of that mattered to me at the time. We're talking about anecdotal evidence and not science.

2:19:13Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. But the fact that you're being hit with basically a solvent of these toxic molecules, those solvents are also going to carry those molecules through the skin.

2:19:24SpeakerWell, absolutely they did, and that's what I suffer from today. I've got... Extreme high blood pressure. My left ventricle is as big as your head.

2:19:37SpeakerI have Agent Orange Diabetes, which I have to take all of the Type 1 and all of the Type 2 medications for. I'm actually on four different heart medications that I have to take every single day. And one of them I have to take twice a day. And then there's a plurethra of other medicines that they give me that, you know, that they're trying to boost me up with vitamin D's and this and that.

2:20:05SpeakerAnd I've got a whole box of them. I've got about 31 pills that I have to take every day and some of them twice.

2:20:10Dr Mark ScialdoneSo needless to say, you're a patient and you qualify as a medical patient in California?

2:20:17SpeakerWell, I'm a disabled veteran. The VA puts me... See, when you're over 50% disabled, they send you a letter that says, you can forget about Obamacare, you're covered under the VA. So I don't even mess with that. I don't know anything about it. I don't buy health insurance because of VA. I'm on Tier 1, Level A health care. So they do everything. They get my glasses. They fix my teeth.

2:20:42SpeakerThey take care of whatever medicines I need. If I have to go to the hospital, if I need a CAT scan, whatever, I go to them and they do it. Well, that's how it should be. I'm glad to hear that. Fuck, no shit.

2:20:54BubblemanI don't think I've ever heard that in my entire life. I don't think I've ever heard a vet. That brought such joy to my heart, John. I was like, man, I bet you a lot of vets... That's like a good thing to hear right there.

2:21:07SpeakerIt's beautiful. You want to know the only other group of people that gets health coverage like that? United States prisoners. Ironically.

2:21:17BubblemanWell, they're worth a lot.

2:21:18SpeakerSo, are you suggesting that you either join the Army or become a prisoner? Sorry, you know what's sad is I...

2:21:24Etienne FontanHold on, hold on. You can't say that about the Army. I mean, John, much respect to you, but I lost all my benefits and everything for a positive urinalysis for THC. So, you know, even though I sustained injuries, et cetera, I lost all my benefits because that's just how that system works. So, much respect, and I'm glad you got it, but... As John knows, many other vets don't have it, and I know people who are exposed to Agent Orange who don't have access to it.

2:21:51Etienne FontanSo I'm sorry, John, that you're injured to the point that you have that disability, but much respect that you have it and are being treated with respect by the VA. So I'm glad to hear that, at least.

2:22:01SpeakerWell, they've been asking me for a urine test for five years.

2:22:09SpeakerYou know, what I always do is I go in and I immediately rush into the pisser and take a good healthy piss. And then by the time I get back to the nurses, they're like, okay, we're going to need your intestine. I said, well, you know what, you guys should put these things in the bathroom or something because I already went in there and pissed and I pissed once a day and that was it.

2:22:29SpeakerAnd so there you have it and away I go. You know, I'm never, ever, ever going to give them a piss test. You know, it's just, The thing is, in states where it's legal, like California, they really can't say shit to you about it. Because I talk to a couple of vets who do give their piss tests at the clinic where I go, and they reek of pot when they're in there.

2:22:55SpeakerYou know, when they come in, I can smell them walking the door. And I ask the guy, and he says, yeah, he says, CBD. He goes, I take it for my pain. And I go, hey, you ever mix it up with any THC? And he goes, well, not on purpose. But these are all old guys, you know? They're like me. They're all in there with two canes.

2:23:15SpeakerAnd you couldn't get a straight answer out of them with a fucking shotgun. That's just the way all the old guys are down at the VA. Don't ask me no questions. I'll tell you no lies. And nowadays they've got the cops standing at the front door of the VA clinic, by the way, and they want to search you to see if you've got a fucking weapon on you.

2:23:39SpeakerAnd I looked at the guy and he said, do you have any weapons on you? And I said, well, my wife thinks I do. And that went right over his fucking head.

2:23:50Etienne FontanThat's above his pay grade.

2:23:53SpeakerYeah. But You know, what can I say? If they weren't treating me, I'd be dead. They do treat me. They do take care of me. They recently just gave me a $4,000 CPAP machine because I don't breathe at night anymore on my own. They tested me and they said we've never seen such a bad case of sleep apnea. The one doctor who I think is an archaeologist actually, intending to be a doctor, He told me, I don't have any really good explanations about why you're still alive.

2:24:28SpeakerHe goes, they always ask me the same thing when I came in, are you depressed? And I'm like, no. But do you wake up feeling suicidal? No, I wake up every morning, I look around and I go, bonus round. No shit.

2:24:43Dr Mark ScialdoneCannabis. Cannabis. Cannabis is the answer, right?

2:24:46SpeakerI rang the cannabis bell. I asked my nurse practitioner last time, you don't talk about marijuana, do you? She's like, no, no, we don't talk about that here. Not yet, anyway. I'm like, okay, just thought I'd ask. She said, why are you asking? I said, well, my neighbor had a bum knee and he started rubbing CBD oil on it and now he's mowing the yard.

2:25:09SpeakerSo I was wondering, and she said, well, we can't give you any info about that right now. But like I said, Stan, where did you get piss test busted at?

2:25:18Etienne FontanOh, I was on my way to promotion. I was in the military still.

2:25:25Etienne FontanWell, I sustained injuries in the Gulf War, and I was medevaced to Germany, and when I was going through rehab in Germany, I got addicted to the morphine. Which is easy to do because they're like, oh, vet, combat, here, have more. Here's a button, just press it whenever you need it, you know. Yeah, yeah. I got great for drooling all over myself, bad for thinking or communicating.

2:25:50Etienne FontanSo I told that to the doctor because I'm an artist. I'm like, I want to be creative. I can't even be creative. I can draw the pill or circles, but that's it. I can't do anything. And he recommended cannabis. Yeah. Then I came back stateside because I was in a National Guard unit. And, yeah, on my way to my promotion on the way in that morning, I smoked a joint because it helped me, you know, all the time.

2:26:17Etienne FontanYou know, it's what I found for myself that... That's what inspired me to get involved and get active because I got tired of making criminals out of my friends because I couldn't go to the VA and fill out that prescription. And I got really angry that I lost all my benefits. I had an exemplary record, you know. My unit was attached to the French Foreign Legion. We were so fucking good in the military that they're like, oh, you need to go with them.

2:26:44Etienne FontanSo... Yeah, just, you know, it was what it was. I saw combat and survived it in the end and brought all 11 of my men home and proud of that fact and I've just gone on living my life but then when I realized that I wasn't The only patient out there who was struggling with the VA and cannabis, I started to go to the VA. And when I went into the VA, they would physically remove me.

2:27:10Etienne FontanThey would say, oh, you're a known drug user because you say you use marijuana, so you already had a positive urinalysis. So security would show up, and they'd escort me out of the VA facility. I couldn't get any counseling. I could get no benefits. I had, like you from Agent Orange, I had my boot pulled off in an exposed environment and I had blisters on the bottom of my feet for nine years that would not go away.

2:27:35Etienne FontanHuge, bulbous blisters that would just burst. And the VA said it's all in my head and they wouldn't give me any help so I had to go to conventional doctors and fortunately I own and run a dispenser and I pay my own insurance and I also assist my employees in their insurance because everybody should be covered and that's how I'm covered because Fuck the VA. That finger's not for you, John.

2:28:00Etienne FontanThis one's for the VA.

2:28:01SpeakerI got you. Have you talked to a lawyer? Because you can get that adjudicated. You got a miscast while you were on active duty, and you didn't get discharged a bad discharge, did you?

2:28:13Etienne FontanIt was, but check this out. This was interesting. It was initially a bad discharge from the National Guard, but of course I had my Um, proper discharge from the Army for my service in the Gulf War. So, the VA would see me because I had that. The one that, I mentioned anything having to do with cannabis, cannabis, my medicine, cannabis I was using, I wanted to talk to them about, um, getting access to Marinol, and they're like, nope, you're a known drug user, security out.

2:28:42Etienne FontanAnd I've been kicked out of VA facilities in Los Angeles, D.C., when I lived in D.C., In Oakland as well as the one in SF. So I filed four different times for my disability for Gulf War Syndrome and they lost my paperwork, you know, four different times. So before I was finally diagnosed in 97, when I was in DC, I had a doctor who actually made sure she locked my paperwork down and I was finally diagnosed with Gulf War Syndrome and Could have sought for my benefits, but by that time I was just too active and I was, you know how draining it is dealing with the VA, it's a full fucking time job dealing with them and their paperwork and their disappointment.

2:29:26Etienne FontanI would rather go out there and help other people and provide cannabis today and besides waiting on their fucking system and so that's what's constantly evolved me is that I'm a patient myself and Fuck the government. They're full of shit. But again, I'm thankful for those. Like my stepdad's a World War II vet. D-Day, Battle of the Bulge. So he is full coverage from the VA for life.

2:29:51Etienne FontanSo I see him get the full coverage, and I love it, and I respect it, and I'm glad that they get it. I'm glad that you get it. And I'm not going to sit there and cry for myself because I've given up on that shit a long time ago. I'd rather live my life and... You know, take care of myself as best as I can because for me For my exposure for Gulf War Syndrome, they said it was a lie for years, John, just like the for Agent Orange.

2:30:15Etienne FontanAnd it wasn't until three to four years later that I actually had a VA physician pull me aside and say, hey, kid, I got to tell you something. We were told to lie to you about your exposure. We were told to say that it was in your head. I'm really sorry. I'm going to take the fucking balls here and actually tell you the fucking truth. And I sat there in a pool of myself, fucking so angry, like, really?

2:30:38Etienne FontanReally? That's how it's going to be. So, fuck you, fuck this entire system, and then two years later, I got a seven-page list of everything I was exposed to in the Gulf War because we overran these positions because I was attached to the French Foreign Legion. We came across these bunkers that were mile by a mile long with everything was all nuclear-tipped, and demolition came and blew that stuff all around us because they didn't want it to fall into the enemy's hands again, inadvertently causing fallout Of everything that I got exposed to, which is everything from Agent Orange to mustard gas, nuclear, biological, you know.

2:31:16Etienne FontanThis guy who almost weighs 185 pounds wasted down to 92 pounds. That shit sucked, dog. Let me tell you.

2:31:23SpeakerYou need to let go of it within yourself and get a lawyer. Let the lawyer handle it. That's what I did. I went to a lawyer. I need another lawyer.

2:31:30Etienne FontanLike, I need a fucking hole in the head, dog.

2:31:31SpeakerI'm suing the government. Four years. It won't cost you a thing. There's advocate. There's free... Lawyers that advocate for vets. That's what I did. I got a hold of a free one back in Boston and she took care of everything. And now she's getting ready to jack them up again to get me my veterans pension and to get me my state California veterans pension and a few other benefits that they've been holding back.

2:32:00SpeakerBut really, you'll never beat them at their own game on your own. You need a lawyer.

2:32:06Etienne FontanThat's why I gave up on it. I'd rather take care of other people, and I can take care of myself. I don't need their assistance. I'm a healthy human, and I'm riding bikes with Todd in the hills from time to time, so I'm doing all right.

2:32:18SpeakerYou're riding bikes with Todd in the hills? What was that? Yeah.

2:32:23Etienne FontanTodd and I have mountain bikes. We go riding in the hills. What? How cute. Keeping him healthy, you know, but yeah, I mean, cycling and cannabis saved my life, you know, because it helped me get out, it helped me get active, and it put food on my bones, so I was hungry and I felt active, and I've always felt free, you know, to give back and do whatever I can, so that's why I've risked my freedom for the last 17 plus years, you know, helping other patients and not waiting around for the government to come around and say, you know what, you're right about this cannabis, here it is for you.

2:32:56Etienne FontanYou know, and eventually we're going to get there, but at the same time, the VA is coming around. I've been working with Michael Kravitz and others in Americans for Safe Access and crafting the legislation that's passed and is going to assist other vets so that you, Andrew, can actually go to the VA and your VA physician can actually write a script. Unfortunately, the Republicans and Democrats have no sets of balls between them that will actually keep these things in legislation currently because it was in legislation, but then it gets pulled.

2:33:26Etienne FontanAnd so we celebrate the vets. We're like, hey, we love our vets. But when it actually comes to putting the rubber to the road, more of us get fucked than anything else.

2:33:34SpeakerWell, there's seven GOP senators who pulled that out of the last appropriation bill. Those are the same guys that do it every time. And coincidentally, those same guys are fierce hawks. And they vote war every fucking chance they get. And they're also, all seven of them, tied to Big Farm in a big way. If you go on Indiegogo, you can find a guy who Wrote an app that you can get for $5 that tells you what every fucking politician's money sources are.

2:34:09SpeakerAll of their money sources. Yeah. And when you go on there and enter these guys' names into it, man, they receive more money from Big Farm. Each one of them yearly receives enough money from Big Farm to last any one of us for the rest of our fucking lives on a yacht somewhere in the Mediterranean. Yeah, I feel two things about that. It's really ironic that our soldiers go to fight for freedom and then come home and they don't have freedom.

2:34:36SpeakerI think that's so uncool. And then the second thing is I thought every adult on a mountain bike was stoned, Tony.

2:34:45SpeakerYou're probably right. I think a lot of kids that are on mountain bikes are stoned too. I mean, that's how I started even in high school. I took my bike out of the garage and I drove to the woods to smoke a joint. Yeah. That was the point of the mountain bike, right? That was the point. We didn't have a car. We were like, how do we get away from the house?

2:35:05SpeakerYou guys were lucky. I smoked my first joint behind the front wheel of a 5-ton truck on the way to Coochie from Benoit, and they started shooting at us. And we pull outside the door and I jump behind the wheel because there was bullets hitting the dirt everywhere. Little rocks were stinging the shit out of you. And I could hear the wheel on the other side catching bullets.

2:35:29SpeakerAnd the black guy up at the front, because it was the cook's truck that we were in, was smoking something. And he looked at me and he says, hey, you look like you're going to piss yourself. And he flicked this joint back to me, which I didn't know was a joint at the time. And he said, here, try some of that. It'll calm you down. So I took a puff, choked, took a few more puffs, choked some more, took another puff, a rock hit me and I looked up and he said, pass it back.

2:35:55SpeakerSo I threw it back over to him and I said, what is that? And he said, that's marijuana. And the first thought that came to my head was, geez, I promised mom I wouldn't do that. And that was the last time I had any kind of thoughts of denial in my head about pot. Ever since then, I've smoked steadfastly. Since 1964 until now without missing almost hardly one day.

2:36:20BubblemanNice. 1964. When was your first puff, Sam?

2:36:24Speaker1965.

2:36:26BubblemanNice.

2:36:28SpeakerClose. No banana. But the good thing about mine was nobody was shooting at me.

2:36:38SpeakerHoly shit. I did learn to mix pleasure and strangeness at the time, but years later it came to me that that wasn't necessarily a good way to be.

2:36:50Etienne FontanYeah, even in Saudi Arabia I scored Lebanese hash and I would actually roll it into little thin lines or put it in my tobacco and just smoke it in my cigarette because we were going through cigarettes like it was water. You know how it is on the front line.

2:37:05SpeakerWell, in those days in Vietnam, if you brought a pack of Salem's, a carton of Salem's, two cartons, you bring two cartons down to Papa Son, he would take one carton, empty all the tobacco out, fill it up with marijuana, put it back in the packages and seal it back up so that it looked like a regular pack of cigarettes. And the other carton he kept for himself.

2:37:26SpeakerProbably to smoke. I don't know what he did with it. But you could be around base all day long. You got to pack cigarettes, pop one out, put it in your mouth. It was a Salem. It looked like a Salem, but we were all smoking pot. What can I say? I even ran across a full bird colonel smoking a joint behind the shooter in Vietnam in Coochie out in the field.

2:37:48SpeakerAnd he saw me. We used to get tie sticks.

2:38:17SpeakerWe'd go to Saigon and get on the MATS, Military Air Transport, plane, fly to Bangkok. In Bangkok, we would go down to the Papa San's place and buy a duffel bag full of Thai Buddha sticks. We would take those sticks to get back on the plane, fly back to Vietnam, and you sell them for a dollar a stick. You bought them for ten cents a stick, and you sold them for a buck a stick in Vietnam.

2:38:45SpeakerAnd believe you me, those babies, you could stick them on the wall of the hooch, and it would stick there. It was so sticky. That's called the Italian test. Yeah, the poster. Can you put a poster up with it? Yeah, you could with those sticks. I didn't see those little small Thai sticks until I came back from Vietnam in the States. Do you remember those little pencil-sized ones that were around?

2:39:09SpeakerNo? I saw them every size in Thailand. No, I mean here in the States. In America also I saw little tiny ones and big giant ones that were, you know, lousy weed, a big giant stick running through it, and yeah, whatever. Yeah, the ones in Thailand, there was no lousy ones. There was only different. They were all so good. It was... I mean, I literally, when I was in Thailand the first time after being in Vietnam for six months and I smoked some of that with a guy, we were sitting there deciding whether or not to buy some and whether or not to go back to Vietnam.

2:39:56SpeakerWe're like, fuck that noise. You know, the people are, you know, we were just like on the verge of just staying in Thailand. But, you know, my dad was in the Army and I was born on an Army base in an Army hospital. And you were going to die in an Army. Yeah, thanks. I just didn't want to have them phone my dad up and go, guess what, your son deserted.

2:40:26SpeakerDad was, he was the toughest, best guy I knew. And so I didn't want to let him down. So I got on the plane and went back to Vietnam. It wasn't easy the first time. And I went TDY. I went to Vietnam four times before I got a tour. And the only way I actually got the tour, the full tour, was I complained about going TDY because I was training Arvin field medics to be medics.

2:40:54SpeakerAnd I complained to this top sergeant about coming and going all the time. And when I walked into his office the next time, he says, guess what? No more TDY for you. And I said, when am I leaving? Week after next, he says, I got you a full tour. You're going to be there 13 months. So that's what happened to me. Pissed off the wrong people. And I was always giving that sergeant shit, going, hey, how the, you know.

2:41:22SpeakerAnd he didn't appreciate it, but he didn't tell me that. Instead, he just got me a tour. And then when I was leaving, he said, enjoy yourself.

2:41:30BubblemanOoh, nasty.

2:41:32SpeakerYeah, there's some nasty people in the government services. I don't get involved in government schemes at all anymore, no matter what they are. I don't care if it's like $300 bills. I'm not going down there to see what they're doing.

2:41:48SpeakerYeah.

2:41:49BubblemanYou're not going to go see their $300 bills. You're not going to piss in their cups. That's right.

2:41:55SpeakerNo, it's really creepy how prison is, you know, a lot of the guys I was in prison with sadly were guys that had been in the military and a lot of the prison guards are guys that, you know, wanted to continue getting their credits from their military into civilian life so they would go get these shitty government jobs at prisons and they, you know, they're nice guys but they were just in crappy environments once that happened and just such a lame deal signing up with the government on so many levels.

2:42:25SpeakerWell, that's the whole story of life. Everybody's a nice guy and then they get involved in some crap. Look, if everybody on the fucking planet would sit down and smoke a joint for two hours, we'd have world peace. You know, it's all letting yourself go and looking at yourself. And I think until I smoked my first joint, I never really looked at myself. I was just always wondering what the fuck was going on.

2:42:52SpeakerYou know, I would never participate in conversations that people were holding because I was afraid I would open my mouth up and say something stupid. So I always just kept my mouth shut and listened. The only positive effect that ever had was the girls used to say, he's so quiet. But other than that, yeah, I would stunt it socially because I didn't know what to say. And after I smoked my first joint, my bottom lip said, uh, uh, uh, hello.

2:43:22SpeakerAnd so that's the reason, if you want to know my gosh knows truth, the reason that I got the first BHO method came to me was because God knows I have got a big mouth and that I don't keep that kind of thing secret. I'm a believer in that we're all here, we're all shooting for the same thing. Maybe we don't live with each other or anything, but we're all headed to the top of a mountain And there's just all these different paths on the way up and everybody's on one and just because some guy's on one path or another doesn't make him bad.

2:44:02SpeakerIt's just a different way of getting to the top of the mountain. And me, I'm a mountain climber. You're a beautiful soul, John. It's really so nice listening to you talk and hear the history of where you come from and what you went through. And it's so admirable on so many levels. And I thank you so much for sharing so much. I've always got a lot out of listening to Hash Church and being able to participate.

2:44:27SpeakerIt has always been very enjoyable, too. And to be able to interact with people like you, It's truly a treasure. Yeah, talk about radical openness and honesty. Great info. Thanks for being a guest here. Oh, listen, I appreciate you guys being willing to listen to an old fart like myself. I'm still burning one as we speak, and I'll be burning them all day long. I've watched the whole thing change from twisting up...

2:45:00SpeakerThe first... Commercial pot that I came back to the States that I could buy after Vietnam was a bag of green dusty looking stuff. And I couldn't wait to leave the Army base and get out of my uniform. And I went to my mom's house where I had sent over 200 packages of small Samuel refrigerators filled with tie stick in jars with paraffin around the lid. And when I got there, my mother's like, You know, I had to end up using the whole garage to store these.

2:45:33SpeakerShe goes, what the hell's in them? I said, oh, just a bunch of Vietnamese dolls I got for you, Mom. I'll be unpacking them as time goes by here. And when I looked at that first lid that guy showed me, it was actually a lid weighed out in a big number 10 mayonnaise jar thing and dumped in a bag of green powdery stuff. I lit it up and took one puff off it and I said, no, no, God, this is not right.

2:45:58SpeakerThis isn't the truth. The truth's overseas. And I'm going to start spreading this around. I just, you know, I was in a family of 11 kids. And if you didn't fucking share with the other kids, what kind of a fuckhead were you? You know, everybody was like, you would get a quarter from dad and you would go show it to everybody and go, let's go buy five candy bars.

2:46:23SpeakerYeah. And that's kind of how I grew up in a big family. And so that also led me to go to India and start searching around trying to find out what the fuck am I here for. And the conclusion I came to was the same reason everybody's here, to find out about love. Every fucking lesson taught here, loss, gain, pleasure, pain, all of it is about love.

2:46:47SpeakerThere's nothing else.

2:46:48Etienne FontanIndra, what do you like to smoke then since you say you're smoking now? What are you smoking? What do you like to smoke and do you grow and what do you like to grow?

2:46:55SpeakerI am a great kush lover. I love all the kushes.

2:47:03SpeakerRight now I'm having a lemon kush that is truly amazing and I will be smoking kush till the day I die. I do like sativa but it's still number two on my thing. Whatever kush you got, OG kush, lemon kush, kush kush. You know, Kush is my thing, and when I grow, that's what I like. I like Kush.

2:47:26Dr Mark ScialdoneKush is your bush.

2:47:28SpeakerKush. Bong rip to that, guys. Say again?

2:47:33Etienne FontanBong rip to that one.

2:47:34SpeakerAh, yeah. Yeah, my favorite thing is, I used to say Bong Shiva all the time, and then after I was up at the Shiva Temple in Manali in India... I was sitting there one day and the epiphany came to me that I'm Shiva, and so I now say Bhang Miva.

2:47:54SpeakerBhang Miva. It's going to be the new word. And since you're all part of Shiva, feel free. Feel free. Bhang Miva.

2:48:03BubblemanBoom Shankar.

2:48:04SpeakerBoom Shankar.

2:48:07BubblemanYes, I was just at Chris Bennett's house recently. He's one of our past church panelists. He's a historian and has just an incredible... Knowledge of the history of cannabis and its interactions with mankind. And he has a cat that he's named Shankar. I thought it was a pretty good name for a cat.

2:48:26SpeakerYeah, I love that name, Shankar. At first you'd think it sounds like canker. But after I got in India and found out who Shankar was and what the name, what was behind it. You know, when I was in India for a long time, I worked at this free hospital. And the teacher there at the hospital, the Swami, used to come out of the door in the morning and stick his feet under my crossed legs and tell me the stories from the Ramayana and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

2:48:59SpeakerAnd he would tell me these stories from a first-person viewpoint. And he was considered an avatar anyway. People thought, you know, he's a... He's a part of the Godhood because he could heal people. He could touch people and make things happen. And so he used to come out and sit and tell me that. And years and years went by. We were sitting there. And the small hospital, there was a big super specialty hospital where they did heart surgery, open heart surgery all the time.

2:49:28SpeakerThen there was a small hospital, which was the general hospital. And he was head of the general hospital. And one morning he asked Swami if he could get treatment for me. So Swami says yes. And so I went there. And he said, can I ask you a personal question, John? And I said, of course. What? You know, there's no such thing really as personal, for me anyway.

2:49:50SpeakerBecause I say what's on my mind. I don't give a shit who's there or what the deal is. That's my fallback in life. I always say what's on my mind. So anyway, he says, in the morning, when Swami's telling you something every morning, we all listen, and we wonder, what is he telling you? And I say, what do you mean? You're sitting one foot away from me.

2:50:09SpeakerAnd he says, we've discussed it, and all 30 of us, all we hear is, bzz, bzz, bzz, bzz, we don't hear a thing. And so for some reason, this teacher was telling me these stories and nobody else. Sitting on the porch with him. And I had no idea what the hell was going on. But much later on, he told me that I'm going to send you back to the United States.

2:50:33SpeakerHe said, you can't stay here in India any longer. And I said, why do I have to leave? So I mean, he says, because I have a lot of work for you there. And so here I am doing what I think he sent me here for. So that's where all that stuff comes from.

2:50:51BubblemanYou told me that story before. That's cool. Well, you told me a part of that story in the sense that that dude had told you that you kind of had to leave. You were going to go to the United States, and you were like, oh, what?

2:51:02SpeakerI was kind of like, I liked living here. Yeah, I did. Listen, I'd be in India right now if it wasn't for that. By any chance, was he an immigration officer? No. Ha, ha, ha, ha. No, immigration in India is, visas are easily gotten by paying for them. You can go to your local visa officer in India and pay for a visa for however long you want.

2:51:34SpeakerIt just depends on the amount of money you give them. So that wasn't it at all. What was it was after Swami told me to leave India, he wouldn't pay attention to me anymore. He wouldn't fucking talk to me. He wouldn't look at me. As far as he was concerned, I was gone. And so finally I got it and left.

2:51:53Etienne FontanInteresting.

2:51:54BubblemanWell, I'm glad you did. I'm glad you went on your journey and had all those experiences and came to the point where You know, here you are all these years later sharing some pretty cool stories and some pretty, like, I would say pretty substantial knowledge drops for anyone listening and paying attention. Like, holy shit.

2:52:14SpeakerYeah, it's really amazing to listen to you talk. It's truly, you can't read, like, this stuff isn't in books, it's not in documentaries, it's just really... It's amazing. Although I've been writing a book for the past eight years, I don't think I'll ever get it done. Maybe they'll publish it after I move on. But hey, I'm preparing some pictures and maybe a little video. I'll see how well it works out next week to show you guys how to make those soft temple balls.

2:52:46SpeakerAnd I've been looking all around, and I don't see anybody using this method at all, so it'll be brand new information, I'm pretty sure.

2:52:53BubblemanWell, someone asked that today. They were like, how do you make those temple balls? How do you make those temple balls? So there you go. You heard it from the man himself. Potentially, maybe you will learn in the upcoming weeks here on Past Church. Pretty sweet. Pretty good.

2:53:08SpeakerYeah. Yeah, I think it would be fun to teach you guys, and it's... It's a needed thing. It's actually more needed that they get out than that I try to make a lot of money out of. However, if anybody wants to start sending me $250, I'll be happy to receive it. I've never made a penny off of the pot part of it. The essential oil part of it, I do make a living off of that.

2:53:39SpeakerI thank the heavens that I came up with that when I did because in the long run, that will probably end up taking care of my kids too. I'm always thinking, I'm always, you know what's the hardest thing in the world? To stay in the now. You're thinking about what my teacher told me once, do you want to become immortal? And there was 40 people in the room and everybody was like, you could hear butt hairs rubbing together.

2:54:08Dr Mark ScialdoneJohn, I have a question. I think my company might be interested in seeking a license to your patent. Are you actively seeking people to license your patent?

2:54:21SpeakerIf people are seeking to license it, I am available.

2:54:26Dr Mark ScialdoneHow would we get in touch with you and make an inquiry on that?

2:54:29BubblemanI can link you up, Mark. In fact, I will link you up.

2:54:34Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you. Thank you.

2:54:37BubblemanMost definitely.

2:54:38Dr Mark ScialdoneI think I wasn't aware of it until we discussed it on church a couple weeks ago, but as I looked at it, I could see a lot more possibilities. I'd love to get an NDA and sit down and talk with you about it.

2:54:51SpeakerYeah, that's not a problem at all. Cool. I'm actively entertaining licensees and I have talked to the Colorado AG and the Washington State and the California AG and all of them had an overriding concern about safety. They were really, really, really, really thinking of some

2:55:34SpeakerI've been educating them by first off sending them copies of the patent and showing them that we had an 18 year safety record. We've never had a fire. I even documented for them that we were in two locations where the locations burned down but we didn't. They're very interested in some kind of talking on a national level of some kind of a safety training course that would be taught by me and people would get certified.

2:56:11SpeakerYou know, I had a little diploma or something to put on the wall saying that you came, you saw, you listened, and maybe you learned.

2:56:18Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Great.

2:56:21SpeakerSo I'm being as active about that as I can. That's well within most industries, like a safety certification class or course. And you know what? And I want to say this to you, you know, John, there's a lot of, you know, places that are trying to create curriculums around, you know, look, there's schools in every city and we need them. Obviously, people can't just learn from books.

2:56:40SpeakerIf we did, we wouldn't have universities. We would only need libraries. But that's not the case. And, you know, you're in a situation where you don't need any... Thank you for joining us.

2:57:12Etienne FontanNot only that, John, I mean, I'm on the board of the National Cannabis Industries Association and we do certifications. So, I mean, that's a course that we could approach them as well because we're talking over a thousand different businesses around the United States and all those that are not only producing, you know, the medicine and the BHO, these are the producers of the machinery as well. That could all benefit from your knowledge.

2:57:35Etienne FontanThank you so much for joining us.

2:57:53SpeakerThe equipment around what you're doing. I think it's an opportunity for a lot of people to actually get a better understanding of it, do it cleaner and actually be safer at it. Well, I think it's a good thing because if you're going to have somebody teach about Safety and how to use the system to the highest possible order. Why not use the guy who wrote the patent in the first place?

2:58:24SpeakerAnd I would feel a lot better than that. I've seen some of the courses that some of the companies put out and some of them are scary. Some of the guys that do the demonstrations scare the living shit out of me. I still hearken back to the guy who was in the garage. He lifted the garage door up six inches and said, I often leave the garage door open six inches in case anything happens.

2:58:56SpeakerAnd I called them on the phone because I was so concerned about them and I told the guy, listen, two things. The demonstration in the garage where the guy in the garage door, if an explosion ever happens or something happens in there, he'll be the first to know. He'll be going through that door burning at 5,000 degrees, number one. Number two, you need to take that video down because you are going to end up in court liable for teaching somebody how not to fucking do this.

2:59:25SpeakerAnd so I call companies now and I tell them, hey, your fucking video, take it down, you're liable. It's bad. And then if I have to, I send them a letter from our lawyers. We got these... We've got some high-powered lawyers in the middle of Kansas who wrote this thing, and believe you me, it cost some money, and we went over it and over it and over it with scientists and physicists and all kinds, and this patent is well, well, well, well written.

2:59:51Dr Mark ScialdoneJohn, I have 25 U.S. patents. I think I have another 25 worldwide. I've been reading and writing patents for about 30 years in my career. It is one of the most well-written, well-constructed patents, which is one of the reasons why I asked you the question previously, why aren't you going after companies? Because it seems really solid. Claim number one seems solid, and if you put anyone's butane extraction over the top of this, you'd say that this patent basically covers this process.

3:00:28SpeakerEveryone's... I'm trying not to kill the fucking industry, you know.

3:00:33Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, right, right. No, no, no, no, no. I appreciate that, yeah.

3:00:36SpeakerIt's like delivering a breached baby, you know. You gotta make some moves in order to turn the baby around to get its head down first. And if I would start jumping on people about it, I'm afraid it would be a big wet rag over... Thank you for joining us.

3:01:11SpeakerI wanted this to be known. I feel connected to everybody, you guys. You're all brothers. We're all part of this. If I would have just said on that, anyway, I don't know how to say it except I couldn't hold it back. Now, I don't want to squash it with bad energy. I'm going to go to the big guys and I'm going to offer them, hey, you are in violation of my patent, but Here's the cure.

3:01:41SpeakerYou get a license from me. You let me train all your people. You can quit worrying about them blowing themselves up or burning themselves. You can stop making that shit system you're making now. And here's one. I mean, they've got so many problems, those things. Those big long tubes they pack the pot in. You know what their biggest problem is? Channeling. The fucking gas will go down through it and around it and it won't get all of it and it won't extract everything and that's a big problem that channeling shit and they don't know how to deal with it and in my patent I deal with it 100% effectively but you cannot use a big long tube like that to do the extractions and that'll never work, number one.

3:02:17SpeakerNumber two, I also came up with the idea of the vacuum boil. And that's where I cause, on the inside of the chamber, I drill these little tiny valleys like an ant farm, like an ant lion does. You know, a little hole like a triangle in the bottom. So we drill these, and then when we put the vacuum on to start the vacuum boil, those little valleys cause bubbles to be formed.

3:02:50SpeakerLots of bubbles. And Sonic Bubbles. And those bubbles fiercely go out and stir everything. So since everything's stirred up like a motherfucker, there's no channeling. The minute we did that, we started getting 100% yields every single time. You can't pack it in a pipe and get 100% yield. And it's just a joke. And the fact that they've gone up and gone taller and taller is laughable. Because that means somebody's not paying attention.

3:03:20SpeakerAnd it doesn't work that way. If you look at my patent and look how the machine is shaped, you'll see the answer for how to do that. And it's simple. I use a big cone instead of a tube. And inside of the cone is prepared and mirrored. And when it does the vacuum boil, the shit from the bottom boils right up to the top and back down again.

3:03:43SpeakerAnd so you get this incredible extraction. It's clean and it's pure. And then it goes through the activated charcoal and the molecular seeds, comes out, fine soil on earth. I mean, I've heard everybody try it for years. And you know what the first question everybody asked me after they try it, when they for sure got stuff I made in their hand? The first question, everybody, not 99.9%, 100% of the people asked me this question.

3:04:14SpeakerGot any more?

3:04:17BubblemanYeah, well, I will say this about it. I will say this. I've had two experiences in my life where I smoked something that was so strong I was almost shocked by it. A third time when I ate some mushrooms at a fish show and thought, man, this must have been dipped in liquid LSD because this is way too fucking strong. It was the fish music. It was the music.

3:04:34BubblemanBut the two times it was smoking, it was Skunk Man Sam's dry sift. That shit is... And I mean the stuff that he grew and made, not just stuff that he gets from someone and cleans, but his resin. It fucking rocked me. I didn't pass out and I didn't fall down, but I'll tell you, I left more high than I have ever been in my life. And the next time that happened to me was when Steve the Nose Haze gave me that gram of your oil in Amsterdam in like fuck whatever year that was.

3:05:09BubblemanAnd that was also psychotic. It was psychotically strong. It was stupid strong. Like it was just like, what the fuck is this? Just destroy people at coffee shops with that shit because nobody had it. Nobody.

3:05:23SpeakerBut that was from Neville's Weed.

3:05:26BubblemanYes, exactly. It was from the Neville's Haze. And there was dry sift, I think, put in there too or something.

3:05:31SpeakerYes. Steve gave me some dry sift and there was Neville's Weed. Either way, it was amazing. Both you guys have that honor of... Wait, you ran Neville's Hayes Dry Sift through your extractor is what you're saying? Yeah. Wow.

3:05:46BubblemanYeah, and then I bought the last gram of it in Amsterdam.

3:05:51SpeakerDo you still have any of that?

3:05:53BubblemanNo, in fact, Tony, in fact, I hate to admit it, but I couldn't even finish it. I ended up giving it to Mila on my way out of the country because I was like, holy shit, Mila, all I know is this is the strongest shit I've ever fucking been able to buy, and I can't take it home, so I gave her like a quarter of a gram of it.

3:06:12BubblemanBack when Mila was still talking to me.

3:06:17SpeakerYeah, well, she probably has fond memories of you if she smoked it.

3:06:21BubblemanWell, I'll tell you, that was serious shit. It was that skunk number one dry sift and that Neville's Haze oil that were the two like, oh.

3:06:34SpeakerWell, when I went back from India, Steve and Neville and some other guy, I'm trying to remember his name. Anyway, Neville gave me a little bag of seeds which I took back to India. He wanted me to grow some of the Haze in India and then Smuggle it back because we had a very good smuggling. You got to remember, this was when you could smuggle shit on the airlines.

3:06:56SpeakerNot now where they look in your pee-pee and stick a finger up your butt and ask you to cough. Back in those days, I mean, I don't remember anybody searching any fucking thing before we got on a plane in the 80s. I just don't have any memory of that. So anyway, we used to get a suitcase full of buds and hash and Go to the Delhi airport, which you just simply paid the custom guys in advance and never fucking went through any customs.

3:07:28SpeakerIn fact, the customs guys carried your bags out to the passenger part and put it on it for you. And then you would fly to Amsterdam. And in Amsterdam at Schiphol in those days they were building it and it was a fucking nightmare. It was cement carts and stuff everywhere. And we would just grab our shit. Walk down and walk out of the front door and shrivel.

3:07:51SpeakerYeah, I took it over to Steve and he's like, holy fuck. He goes, okay, well, I'll pay you next time. And I said, you tight son of a bitch. I said, pay me in advance. Steve was the tightest fucker on the planet, wasn't he? He squeaked when he walked.

3:08:10BubblemanOh, but he always had good hash.

3:08:13SpeakerYeah, I know where he got it from, too. A lot of it. I guess you did.

3:08:20BubblemanWell, I never really had the affinity for that sort of, you know, like the oil you made, sure, the hash, the sift that Sam was making, the bubble that I myself was making, I just always preferred over any sort of imported hash that I was getting from any other country. I just never saw anything that was on that same level. As those things. Except maybe in Jamaica where I made my own water hash that was like as nice as anything I've seen anywhere in the world.

3:08:50SpeakerSpeaking of Jamaica, we have to have that conversation about that because... You know, there's all kinds of little things that would be very additive, not just the patent, but other information that I possess that we could put to great use in a way there, if you know what I'm saying.

3:09:14BubblemanOh, I've seen it. I can see it, and we are definitely going to be having that conversation. In fact, probably sooner than later, as people are hitting me up on private message, Hey, you need to hook me up with Indra right now.

3:09:29SpeakerYeah.

3:09:31Etienne FontanYou're a very popular man at this moment.

3:09:34BubblemanWell, people are loving his stories and they're loving that he comes across as honest.

3:09:42SpeakerWell, I'm not telling you anything that isn't just exactly the way it was. There's nothing to be gained from bullshitting. My dad was in the Army. Thank you for watching.

3:10:13SpeakerLater on, he bought me an Encyclopedia Britannica, and I read the fucking thing because I was an avid reader at an early age, and I read through it, and then I would sit around the living room when they were playing poker and get drunk, and they would say something that was bullshit, I would call them on it, and I would go, nope, that's not true.

3:10:35BubblemanLittle Google. You were Google.

3:10:38SpeakerI was baby Google, let me tell you. I heard shut the fuck up more times in my life than I did my name.

3:10:49BubblemanOh my God. I'll puff to that.

3:10:53SpeakerI'll puff into that. My dad was the same way. He's old school Italian. I couldn't get a word in. I just shut the fuck up all the time. Yeah. I'll puff to that. That, and he would slap me, if I looked like I was daydreaming, he'd slap me in the back of the head and go, pay attention. And because of that, I learned how to become a world-class attention payer.

3:11:17SpeakerAnd that's where the patents come from, and that's where the, I'm not a chemist, but I sure came up with a lot of chemistry shit during my time on the chemistry boards.

3:11:31Dr Mark ScialdoneA good old slap in the head.

3:11:33SpeakerYeah, the slap in the back of the head, you know. Thousands. Thousands. Tens of thousands. Tens of thousands.

3:11:41Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, I'm going to try that and see if it helps.

3:11:46SpeakerWell, you're going to have to get your dad. Nobody can slap you in the back of the head like your dad.

3:11:50Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, I'll tell you what, I've got a 19-year-old son to practice on.

3:11:54SpeakerOh, you're going to do it to him.

3:11:57Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I'll try this on him.

3:11:58SpeakerYou've got to start younger than that. Start way younger than that. Way younger. You've got to start like three, four years old, you know. I don't know if at 19 what might end up happening is he might turn around and break your jaw. Are you kidding me?

3:12:15BubblemanHey, Indra, I just wanted to mention when you were jokingly saying if anyone wants to send me $250, people were actually asking where they could send that, and I just said, you know, if you want to donate anything to Indra, there's a donation button on the Hash Church banner, and I'll gladly send it off to you. So someone just dropped $50 in there, so I guess you got $50 coming to you.

3:12:41SpeakerWell, what do you know, maybe it's the fucking world turnaround time, and I think I was the original pay it forward guy.

3:13:07SpeakerWell, next week, I'm going to show you guys how to make those beautiful soft temple balls. And when you see how simple and easy it is, you're all going to do the same thing I always do, and that is form a colon and form a brick in your colon. Because this method is just the sweetest of the sweet things that you ever fucking read. When you see it, it is so sweet that you'll get wood.

3:13:36SpeakerWe might have to invite Frenchy Cannoli.

3:13:39BubblemanWe might have to invite Frenchy Cannoli for that because he's all about making the fine water hash temple balls and such. Are you planning on doing that via voice or are you going to set up a camera and show someone's hands rubbing balls together?

3:13:54SpeakerI have talked to my wife about that but She's the only one I know who's willing to rub balls together on camera.

3:14:05Dr Mark ScialdonePerfect!

3:14:08SpeakerPerfect! I'll film it. If you need somebody to film it, I'll come up there and film the balls. Here's the deal. What I'm going to do is explain how to do it. It is so simple that it doesn't really need anything in the way of illustration or... It's one of those things that I can explain to you in five minutes and you will never forget it and use it the rest of your life.

3:14:37BubblemanI still want to see Tony's HD version filmed up on Bubble Man's World nonetheless.

3:14:43SpeakerI was going to say that our industry is... I will make one. I will make one. Picture's worth 10,000 words. And some people can't fucking pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. So I will make a video so that it is absolutely crystal clear because I suppose if you were a complete dumbass you could hurt yourself What kind of materials do you start with?

3:15:10SpeakerPlants? Resin? Wet? Dry? I start with the first method, which is removing the trichromes that will butt up against

3:15:35SpeakerThe making of the hash perfectly. And I'll show you both of those. I'll tell you. Wet plants? Dry plants? Dry plants. Dry plants. Perhaps I'll give you a brief explanation because I don't know if you heard it the first time I mentioned it. But the way I learned to get the trichromes stems from when I was trying to discover a way to get the mold and spores out of pot that was otherwise good but had gotten some mold or mold run had gone through it.

3:16:13SpeakerAnd I was literally trying to find a way to separate that out and I was using static electricity of sort I had a certain frequency and then later I learned to modulate it with temperature. And when I got to the right frequency level of the right kind of electricity and the right temperature, all the trichromes jumped up out of the ground up pot onto the face of the upper electrode and in great purity in all of them.

3:16:46SpeakerWhat I didn't tell you was before we did that, we grinded up to us an extremely fine Well, I want to see that as well. That sounds pretty like everything else that you've said. Mind-blowing.

3:17:17SpeakerAwesome.

3:17:18BubblemanI also feel that even though you say trichromes, I feel that I shouldn't be correcting you. It sounds right when you say it, even though anyone else that says trichromes, I say, it's trichomes, it's trichomes.

3:17:31SpeakerRight, right.

3:17:32BubblemanYou keep saying trichromes, and it goes well with everything you're saying, and I appreciate it.

3:17:39SpeakerIt's definitely tomatoes, tomatoes. I don't care how you pronounce it, to be honest with you. Just keep playing with them.

3:17:47BubblemanThat's what I'm saying.

3:17:49SpeakerYeah. I love them. Listen, when I saw them separate out, I was doing the happy dance. Me and my son were in the room and

3:18:02Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's again, that's that aha inventors moment, man. You know you experienced an invention. You just saw something that you couldn't have predicted. You predicted that you're going to pull out this thing and you pulled out that thing and you couldn't have... Thank you for watching.

3:18:44SpeakerAnd let's make sure that wasn't some kind of a weird scenario because all the equipment was still set at the same frequency and, you know, we were keeping everything the same. And we put another load in it and tried it and got the exact same results. For example, if what you do is use...

3:19:10SpeakerI'm mixed up. I've got to think of the right question to ask. I'll mention it in a minute. Okay. No problem. Anyway, since we saw that, it's an epiphany moment. After a few minutes, tears come to the eyes, and you realize you have this epiphany that you're the first person to ever see this. What year was that? It was in the late 80s sometime. I'm not sure exactly.

3:19:49SpeakerIt might have been 87, 88. When we made dry sift and we tested the materials before and after the resin extraction, we found that even after making dry sift, As much as almost 50% of the THC was still in the ground up material. Oh, well, on that subject, once we took all the, and I'm probably not saying it right, once we separated all the trichromes out, we then took the remainder of the material and subjected it to extraction.

3:20:26SpeakerAnd did you get THC? We not only got THC, but we got very strong THC oil. The leaves and the small green buds were full of it. Here's the formula that we ended up at. By using our trichrome extraction method, on an average pound, we would get between 60 and 80 grams of trichromes out of it. Then the remainder of it we would extract and get 120 grams of oil.

3:20:58SpeakerWe would take that 120 grams of oil and that 80 grams of trichromes and come up with 200 grams of hash. I think last time I told that to Mark... Wait, out of a pound of... Nobody believed it. Wait a minute, out of a pound of weed? Out of a pound of weed... We would get between 60 and 80 grams of trichromes if it's done properly. The rest of it gives us anywhere between 80 and 120 grams of oil on subsequent extraction.

3:21:30SpeakerSo you're getting 200 grams, but that's more than there is THC in the weeds that you started with. It's not more than there is oil in it. Not more than the oil, more than the THC, I'm saying. You're talking just oil weight. You're talking about getting almost half, 50, 40 to 50 percent of the material separated away as oil. Well, I had this conversation. Yeah, that's what he's saying.

3:21:59SpeakerYeah, the other part of it, the trichomes are full of the other portion of the oil. And when you mix them in with the oil to make those little balls, if you mix it right with the right material, when you break them in half, it looks like glitter inside. I mean, they're beautiful. That's totally possible. We did tests in California and we were having upwards of 32% THC acid in a plant and then 5% terpenes on top of it by weight.

3:22:30SpeakerSo right there, that's 37% total diffraction.

3:22:34Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat do those resin balls or what do those hash balls analyze for in terms of total cannabinoid content?

3:22:42SpeakerYou'd have to ask Mark. You know, the first time I separated the balls in purity was just recently and I haven't had a chance to analyze them or do anything. My analyzing was limited to stuffing it in a pipe and And that's going to vary on plant by plant, sample by sample. I had Dry Sift, which was in the low 80s, but it was 99.9% pure resin heads.

3:23:13SpeakerWell, we've actually... Participated in a little contest and produced 96% THC oil. That's not hard to do. You take a glass of, a cup of really, really good that's already high and you pour pure alcohol in on top of it, stir it up and let it sit a while. And pretty soon all the fats and stuff will come out at the top as a big white layer and you pour those off and what's left over is nion to pure THC.

3:23:44Dr Mark ScialdoneTHCA, right?

3:23:46SpeakerTHCA, yeah. I've never had THCA even 100% pure that was as good as Dry Sip that was only 60% THC or THCA. Well, when you purify it, you take a lot of the goodies out of it. I mean, let's face it. The rushes are always created by the impurities. That's right. So, you know, I'm not a... It's interesting you say that because I don't have a huge desire to sit and vape any of the THC I have.

3:24:22SpeakerIt doesn't have the same effect as... Get some Terps on there. No short of a Terp. As Rob Clark said, pure THC is boring. It has no individuality. You know, though, but there's been a lot of people that have been coming to me and communicating that they've been actually eating THCA and having great medical benefits and not feeling high. And, you know, if you have to go to work and you're trying to deal with a medical condition and still earn a living, that's really amazing.

3:24:56SpeakerWell, listen, here's the story behind it. All the oil I make is dihydro THC. I use no heat whatever in my process of any consequence. So you can drink a cup of it and not get high. But the minute you heat it up and decarb it, wham, you're going to be in left field. And also, the CBDs are in truth the voltage regulator for the THC. You know, you're high, you take the CBDs all out of it and just produce this real pure 99.7 THC.

3:25:30SpeakerOh yeah, you're getting really fucking stoned, but it's far and away not the high that you get from smoking pot or smoking good bud or just smoking regular oil that hasn't been treated that way. It's too pure. You know, some plants, you can get a lot of extreme pure stuff out of it, but The higher the purity rate, the less the taste, the less the smell, the less...

3:25:55SpeakerI think it's less all the way around.

3:25:57Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, the less component of the entourage or ensemble effect, as we like to say here on Hash Church, because you've taken out all the other minor components that, yeah, flavor...

3:26:08SpeakerYou know, as my friend Kenny put it, I showed him some really high THC shatter, and he said, you know, I find it interesting, but at what point does a pizza become a block of cheese when it's 92% cheese and all the sauce and the dough and the spices are gone? I agree.

3:26:28BubblemanThey both have their place. They both have their place.

3:26:32SpeakerYeah, I thought that was a nice analogy, though, really.

3:26:35BubblemanI prefer when I'm hungry to eat a nice slice of pizza, but at the same time I see the value of isolating the different cannabinoids and the terpene profiles and even the terpenes. Just learning about them, the more you... I mean, I used to say it, people would be like, do we really need more than two bags? And I'm like, no, really, it's like there's learning that goes on as you add another screen and you isolate it or separate it further.

3:27:01BubblemanThere's learning that happens in that and... I mean, if it's going to work with water, it's going to work with all sorts of things.

3:27:09Dr Mark ScialdoneThis is certainly different than LSD where you want the highest purity possible. Highest purity at all times because you're only interested in that single molecule. You're not interested in the entourage.

3:27:24BubblemanWell, cannabis is unique in that sense. There's a party going on in there.

3:27:28Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, and you want to invite everybody.

3:27:29BubblemanYeah, they're all invited. We're very inclusive here at Hashtag Tech.

3:27:34SpeakerI disagree. I have great preferences on which of the terpenes and cannabinoids I like to be in the presence of.

3:27:43BubblemanWell, I think we just meant that we want to have them available to choose from. So if you want to... That I would agree.

3:27:50SpeakerEverybody should have availability of all of them.

3:27:54BubblemanYeah, then you can pick the ones you like. And we all are a little different, although I'm guessing that most likely the ones that Sam liked, I would also be liking as well.

3:28:04Dr Mark ScialdoneWe need like a terpene bill of rights. Yes.

3:28:09BubblemanYou want to get on that, Tony? Yes. We the terpenes for the people.

3:28:14SpeakerAll terpenes are created equal. Mark, do you guys remember the ruling in Germany that said that humans had a natural right to cannabis? It was in like 1994. Well, they just did that in Mexico too. Well I don't know if you guys remember but in 1988 in San Francisco a guy who was a lawyer was delivering flats of rooted pot plants to the police station trying to get somebody to arrest him.

3:28:48SpeakerBecause he had a case where he said that given the atmospheric conditions and the amount of ultraviolet radiation coming through, given the amount of protection derived from smoking pot, although it's against the law, it is safer for me to smoke pot than it is to go without. And so therefore he wanted the police to arrest him so he could have a test case in court. He went everywhere.

3:29:12SpeakerHe delivered marijuana to police stations everywhere. Nobody would touch him.

3:29:19SpeakerA lot of people don't know that, or from what I've read, you know, activism, marijuana activism started in San Francisco when a guy walked into a San Francisco police station and asked to be arrested, and a lawyer helped him out, and that became what ended up becoming a morphia, the normal, and what we know as civil resistance to the cannabis laws. Well, that's also what stirred Sergeant Sunshine.

3:29:45SpeakerDo you remember him? I don't remember him. So what I'm talking about was in the book High in America. Yeah, well, I think Sergeant Sunshine was in it. He was the first San Francisco cop to light up a joint on the steps of City Hall. Really? A cop? Sergeant Sunshine, Google it. You need more cops like Sergeant Sunshine. I'm going to go after that. In Berkeley, we had...

3:30:11SpeakerI met Sergeant Sunshine. He was a real guy, but he was much more of an acid head than a pothead.

3:30:18BubblemanWith a name like that, you would think so. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Not that there's anything wrong.

3:30:24Etienne FontanIn Berkeley in 1979, the early activism of a lady who would go on to be the mayor actually raffled off a kilo of cannabis on the steps of City Hall in Berkeley to get the original decrim and making cannabis the lowest priority of the police officers in Berkeley. So, you know, eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, as they say.

3:30:51SpeakerListen, that raffle, that same pot got re-raffled off because they were trying to raise money. And the next person that bought it re-raffled it right away, right on the spot, again and again and again and again and again. And they collected something like $20,000 at that scenario.

3:31:09Etienne FontanThat is correct. I heard that scenario went down. You were there then, right?

3:31:15SpeakerI bid twice on it, but I didn't have that kind of money in those days.

3:31:22Etienne FontanWas it good pot? Because I've never heard anybody who was there besides Lonnie, and she didn't speak regarding it.

3:31:27SpeakerThat pot was donated by Dennis Perrone. And associates who had several houses in San Francisco where you could go starting at 4 o'clock in the afternoon and the door guard would let you in. You could go upstairs and there was a guy sitting with walks full of pot and joints. You could try out, see what you wanted and buy pot. Called the Big Top. Yeah, the Big Top.

3:31:50SpeakerAnd Dennis supplied that raffled off pound. He did a lot of things like that.

3:31:56Etienne FontanOh yeah, the first rally I did in Berkeley, his friends were the ones who gave us the leaf that we rolled all those 1,000 joints for and passed out in People's Park because as he spoke we just passed out joints because he was the draw because Dennis was really the cement for Northern California in my early activism days in 93 and 94. I mean he used to hold the Cal Normal meetings over in San Francisco and he always had Fat weed, always available.

3:32:28Etienne FontanYou show up for the meeting, you were getting high on good fucking weed. And Dennis has always been synonymous. I've never heard anyone say, I got this bad pot from Dennis. Never said by anyone.

3:32:40SpeakerNo, no, no. You tried everything before you bought it. Yeah, but Dennis also sold medium. Good and great pot. I mean, he tried to have all qualities for everybody.

3:32:53Etienne FontanAnd he taught us that as well. One of the things we learned early on in the medical here in California, we started to go just toward the high grade. And he was one of those, and along with the patients, say, hey, don't neglect because people are in all ranges. And so that's where we have $5 all the way up, you know, because all different grades need to be represented because we find a lot of places tend to strictly go toward just the high end.

3:33:21Etienne FontanA whole bunch of patients get benefit from all different ranges and you can't discriminate what somebody utilizes their medicine. So that's why we try to stock all different ranges to accommodate that.

3:33:36BubblemanPrice wise too, some of that bud was super expensive. So if it was the exceptional quality, I heard prices in the range of $80 an eighth.

3:33:45Etienne FontanOh, yeah, he was selling in San Francisco, yeah, his high-end stuff was definitely in the $80 an eighth, and that was definitely going, what the hell? But, you know, he was paying high money for that. This is also back in the days where it was, you know, $6,000 a pound and stuff like that, and people would come down, and, you know, he could pay, he could afford to pay for it, you know?

3:34:04SpeakerAll I can say is, first pot club with an elevator. Well, way back when, when Dennis had those houses, I never saw any pot that expensive. No, and I want to say that he gave so much away. You know, I know personally the people he was helping, and there were people that could afford to pay for good pot and wanted to pay for good pot, almost like to brag how much they paid for good pot, and he gave a shit ton away.

3:34:28SpeakerI mean, Dennis, I mean, I don't want to say, you know, he took a vow of poverty, but he has been such a true spirit.

3:34:36BubblemanEmory was the same way. Emory was the same way. He sold seeds for a high dollar price, but he gave it all away. It was like, yeah, I'm pulling some money out of the cannabis industry, but I'm also putting it all right back. Absolutely.

3:34:50SpeakerMark, that's what I said when he got his Cannabis Culture Award. I felt that what he did by redistributing, it helped so much. Mark Emory helped so many people directly and indirectly. Thank you for watching.

3:35:26SpeakerDennis always had 70, 80 people working for him. He was always giving shit loads of... People who didn't have money would come up to those pot places. They would always leave with pot. He kept everybody fed. The fucking house he lived in was filled to the brim with people. He's a humanitarian.

3:35:45BubblemanWe'll have to get him on to Hash Church with Emery.

3:35:48Etienne FontanAlways, always group home. When he goes to San Francisco, there's always a whole bunch of people in the house taking care of the house. Yeah, that's the thing about Dennis. He's spread it around. I mean, yeah, he charged at Holland, but he always gave back, same way like Mark. You know, those are true philanthropists. They're the ones who taught us because we're non-profits at Berkeley Patients Group, so we have to give money away.

3:36:08Etienne FontanSo we give to all these different organizations, but they're the ones who taught us to always give back, to always realize that there's low income. So that's what we set up. We give away low income. Thank you for joining us today.

3:36:44SpeakerLest we all become Republicans, eh? We don't want to do that. And so, as long as we realize that we don't want to become Republicans, we look around and see what the kings of the money and acquiring toys that your relatives will play with after you're dead. No thanks. You know, I probably will make a lot of money before I die, but, you know, it'll be All the people after me will benefit from it.

3:37:15SpeakerI'm too fucking old to enjoy much of anything except for, hey, a faster computer.

3:37:23SpeakerI don't even drive my WRX anymore because it's too fast.

3:37:27Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, a four-hour erection? Come on now.

3:37:29SpeakerYou're not doing your kids a favor by leaving them money. I've known more fucked up kids. I agree, but mine work for it. They work for me and they do all that stuff for me, so they bust ass. Whatever I leave behind, we're just going to not call it money, we're going to call it residue. Nice. So, you know, I have no further use for it. I'm going to change my electronic status.

3:37:58SpeakerWe're all just a bunch of rolling... What do you mean? You could take one of those Virgin Galactic flights to space. As an ash? People have been calling me an ash all my life. Do it while you're alive, dude. You could be the first one in outer space on acid. Yeah. Actually, I like Philosopher's Stones. I don't know if you've ever messed with those, but man, oh, man.

3:38:26SpeakerThey are the cat's pajamas of happy. Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with them. Yeah. I love them. They're legal here in Amsterdam. Yeah, I know. That's right. One day I got off the plane in Amsterdam to go get visas and I walked into a smart shop and it said mushrooms and philosopher's stones. And I asked the guy, what the fuck is a philosopher's stone? And he explained it to me in great detail so that I could understand it.

3:38:55SpeakerI bought two or three boxes of them and I went off to a cafe and started mixing them in with my food. And then I spent the next 24 hours wandering around Amsterdam with the biggest shit-eating grin on my face saying hello to every fucking body. Best time ever. Every fucking body was hello and 15-minute conversations didn't matter who it was or where it was. And I finally went back to India.

3:39:21SpeakerI took a whole shitload of them with me because I just ground them up and cut them out and put them in a bag. I cut them up. When I got to India, the guy there in India, it was a Sikh guy with a turban on. He said, what is this? And I handed him a thousand rupee note and I said, here, it's written on this, the explanation about what that is.

3:39:47BubblemanOh my God.

3:39:48SpeakerThat was that. And I just walked right through and we had them there in India for quite a while. So I love the little fuckers. They're real. Talk about a teacher thing. Yeah, the logos. Psilocybin grows wild in the Himalayas. Oh, I've had the, listen. Manali, you find the first person you find before you even get into the village, Manali's famous for hash, soft brown finger hash in India, amazing stuff.

3:40:16SpeakerBut the first person outside the village you run into is the kooky old mushroom lady, and she's Dresses and looks like a witch. And she's going to sell you an ounce bag of Silziband that they grow up there, up above Manali. And woohoo, we took one of those and stayed the night in Manali, which is up high and cold and it was kind of weird. But when you're that fucking stoned, you don't notice anything except wow.

3:40:47BubblemanI love psilocybin mushrooms. I learned how to grow them just in high school. Before we could find them to pick them, because in Manitoba we couldn't really figure that out. We could take trips to BC, but that came a few years later for me. We were growing them in the early 90s, late 80s, early 90s. We ordered some spores from Terrence McKenna's company there, some psilocybin, some cubensis, and my God.

3:41:14BubblemanJust such great experiences as well. I always felt that it really unleashed language in me and that I could just talk in such a way and get my message across. And I always and will always have an affinity for psychedelic mushrooms. Certified by Mother Nature.

3:41:30SpeakerThey should be passing philosopher's stones and mushrooms out in old folks' homes than in hospices. I'm telling you. You know, my dad passed away from lung and bone cancer. I had metastasized from one to the other. They don't know which way yet. But in the end, he was starting to get down to about 90 pounds or so, and it was starting to really disturb everybody. In the family, and I asked him if he'd be willing to have a pop brownie.

3:42:02SpeakerAnd he looked at me and he said, well, I would try to eat it. Do you think it would help? And I said, well, have you ever gotten high on it, stuff before pop? And he says, well, he says, when I was in North Africa during the war and they ran out of wine, we used to buy hash from the Muslims. And so he said, I have smoked it.

3:42:21SpeakerAnd I said, okay, so here's what I want you to do. And I went down, it was in Arizona at the local hospital, and I went down and I got some Pop Brownies. And I brought them back to him and gave them to him. And by 16 weeks later, he weighed 165 pounds. And he was sending me to Hooters daily to get wings for him. And he finally passed at 3 o'clock in the morning one morning.

3:42:45SpeakerHe woke me up. I was holding his hand. I had my cot next to his bed because he said he was afraid to die. And I said, you know, I'm just going to be right there with you and there's nothing to be afraid of because it's going to be like waking up out of one dream and this will seem like the dream to you then. And he listened to me because he didn't want to hear about reincarnation, you know.

3:43:06SpeakerHe was brought up Catholic and he had a lot of lines on the back of his hands where the nuns beat him with a ruler. So to him, God was, you know, a bad deal all the way around.

3:43:16Etienne FontanWhat is it with those nuns and their damn rulers? I was raised Catholic and they beat the shit out of them.

3:43:23SpeakerNone of that. And so what they do is they're filled up with anger because they don't get to do any of the pleasure. Seriously. The reason medical marijuana works is a very simple one. A lot of people talk about all the different, why is it for you? It's a very simple answer. When you're fucking high, it's hard to feel pain. You know, high brings joy and joy eliminates pain.

3:43:45SpeakerAnd so what the doctors can't seem to put that together in their fucking heads, that you've got to be on narcotics in order to get rid of the pain, when instead you can be in joy. Joy eliminates the pain. And that's why it works. Yeah, and I was like, when I first started, just as an example, I got on here, I was super nauseous and sick. I took two hits of some dog walker flower rosin.

3:44:08SpeakerI'm not nauseous anymore. I'm not sick. And I actually got a little bit hungry and ate some Like sprouted oats. Nice. All good effects. Like I always say, I'm always very well if I smoke hash.

3:44:27SpeakerThat's a good way to look at it. Listen, I've burned so much shit in my lungs that I have to be careful these days to put things in there that I can actually cough and survive the cough. Otherwise, sometimes I'll cough so hard I'll start going unconscious and hear that cosmic buzzing sound that you hear when you're getting ready to go unconscious. If you haven't heard it up until now, count your blessings.

3:44:54BubblemanI'm counting my bong rips. I'm on number 16. Anyone else counting their bong rips?

3:45:00SpeakerIt's been a great day, though. You know, John, I can't thank you enough for joining us. I've had a blast listening to you. Hearing you talk is very inspirational. I look forward to it. It's a lot of fun. You guys are a lot of fun. And I guess all my life I've been teaching different things, one thing or another. And I enjoy teaching something when there's a student in front of you who's going to absorb it and take it in and make it part of their life.

3:45:31SpeakerThat's the only trail, the only residue trail you can leave is action. It was so good that people are still doing it that it was a success.

3:45:42BubblemanWell, you've got 10,000 students watching between now and the next week, so there you go. People are always tuning in to Hash Church for the little gems. They know that we're not just going to crack open the vault and just gems are going to pour out everywhere. We've got to kind of surf and navigate through a dialogue and a conversation to uncover them. But if you pay attention and you put the time in and you listen...

3:46:08BubblemanI think between the 98 episodes we've had so far, there's been some unbelievable amount of gems dropped for plenty, plenty of gem mining for the people watching.

3:46:20SpeakerMarcus, you might even say that the knowledge comes out a dab at a time.

3:46:27BubblemanA dab at a time. Yep, I think we will say that, Sam.

3:46:34SpeakerWell, you can only smoke knowledge a dab at a time, too.

3:46:37BubblemanThat's true. It's a good balance.

3:46:41SpeakerTony's jumping ahead with the dabs, so dabs away.

3:46:46BubblemanAbsolutely. You know, I've got to... Go ahead.

3:46:49SpeakerOh, I was just going to say, this is really interesting because I had some CBD and I used blackjack terpenes. Just heat it up as it cools down and it crystallizes. And then I just mixed it up and I let it sit for a week. Yeah, that's nice. And it's just blackjack CBD crystals. It's really nice. I hear it's blackjack. Is it a kush? There's a couple different people running different blackjacks out here, but I was told it was black domino and a jack cross.

3:47:30SpeakerSo it would be... Kind of a hybrid. It would just be a hybrid. Jack Domina. I don't even know what Jack is unless you're talking about Jack Ferreira. Yeah, that's what it is. It's like a Black Domina and a Jack, but some people say it's Blackberry, but there's no Blackberry. Ferreira. My son just smacked me in the back of the head and said it's Jack Ferreira.

3:47:56BubblemanHey, that's what sons are for. Hey, John's son. He smacked you in the back of the head? Jack Ferreira.

3:48:02SpeakerJack Carrere. Okay, I just got the second slap, so. Okay, and I'll just say it. Jack used to say it all the time. It rhymes with terror. Terror. Terror. Terror. That's how he liked his last name pronounced. He's terrorizing the world. I do have some kush, though. I have some sour kush that I'll smoke on your behalf. Yeah, I love kush. This is non-solvent, though. This is made from a...

3:48:33SpeakerBubble hash that was pressed in sour kush terpenes at a very, very high rate. I'm so glad because... Bring some of that along. Listen, guys, I got overwhelming stuff happening here at the house, and I'm going to have to sign off and take care of it. And we'll see you guys next week for the reveal.

3:48:55BubblemanThanks for coming on, John. Say hi to your son, and I hope that your day goes well.

3:49:01SpeakerThanks a lot, guys. Take care, everybody. Nice chatting, John.

3:49:06BubblemanWell, if that wasn't just awesome. That was good stuff. Good conversation.

3:49:13Etienne FontanThat's a lot of information, man. A lot of good shit, man. I have to say, we've had some epic ones lately, and this one has to rank right up in there. That's pretty good all-around information.

3:49:24BubblemanYeah, absolutely. I'm excited to move forward on that. You know, a couple more people dropped some dough in the PayPal account, so 100%. I will pass that on to John. Thank you, guys. I think that's nice to do.

3:49:39SpeakerYeah, cheers to you guys.

3:49:44BubblemanI like the idea of using the donation button to gift to panelists that inspire... The audience, you know, if someone comes on, I said this to Todd a while ago, maybe someone comes on and they can't afford their meds, well, at the end of the episode, if people are touched by it, we can say, hey, if you want to help out, you can donate, put their name in the subject line, and I will 100% have no problem being very transparent about making sure the exact amount of number goes to, you know, the exact money that's given goes to whoever that is, so today it's going to be To Indra, and I thank you guys for hooking that up.

3:50:21BubblemanThat's pretty kind.

3:50:23SpeakerPretty kind indeed. Pretty fucking killer church, I gotta say.

3:50:26Dr Mark ScialdoneI listened a lot more than I talked. Thank you for being a good custodian of your global reach.

3:50:35BubblemanYeah, well, isn't that what it's all about, right? I just love the idea of bringing more and more great people like that together. It builds and empowers our community in a sense, you know, and it's... It just, I think we get comfortable in assuming we know. We know what's going on, and we've seen and done all of that, and then you have someone like, you know, Sam or Indra come on and tell stories, and you're just like, what?

3:51:01Etienne FontanFuck. So, Bubble Man, you said you smoked 16. I've got 16 different tools that I have used, and I've gone through four, so I'm actually on 21 right now, so you were asking, so that's how I keep my count. I just actually stack them and go through them.

3:51:17BubblemanThat's very impressive, Etienne.

3:51:20SpeakerI just weigh what I smoked, so I think I smoked a gram. It was a half a gram. You look like Edward Scissorhands there. I'm prepared.

3:51:32Etienne FontanI like dabbers, I collect dabbers, you know, I like cool things, and as I have different ones for different things, I find, you know, as I'll do, I'll make my rows of hash, and I'll just take a chip off of each.

3:51:45BubblemanOops. How did I mute ATN by accident? Jesus.

3:51:49SpeakerTony, how's your high with the THCA? Sorry. I'm just dabbing a bit of this. I find it really uplifting. Well, I think that I've seen like four or five different types of THCA that's out there. There's different stuff going on, you know. But the crystal one I think is really, when it's all shards and crystals, really hard to kind of, Infuse with terpenes. I mean, I tried it on its own, and I think it's pretty, like they were talking about, it's a little boring.

3:52:24SpeakerI mean, it doesn't do anything. There might be a little delay when I combine it with something else or smoke something else right away. I feel it, but it's not the first thing I would touch on the table. But when I put 10% or 15% terpenes paired with it or CBD, a lot changes. You know, the THCA that I was posting about the other day, that kind of had like an old school creeper delay effect.

3:52:53SpeakerI'm not really sure why, but I felt like, you know, you feel it, taste it, it was, you know, you're like, oh wow, it's really strong, kind of rushes over your face, and then you think that it's over, but then there's like a 30 minute to an hour delay, and all of a sudden you're just like, oh wow. I'm really high right now. And the next day when I woke up, I still felt it from two dabs on Friday night.

3:53:25BubblemanWell, the only time I really ever felt... The only way I felt more stoned the next day was definitely after any Legends of Hash dinner.

3:53:37SpeakerOh, that's a two-day groggy. I almost don't have to smoke for two days after something like that.

3:53:43BubblemanAll I know is I wake up super high the next day, like I've been dabbing all morning and I haven't had a dab.

3:53:51SpeakerYeah, this one was like I woke up and I was like, I still feel that. But I immediately went to the mothership and had to repeat my experience.

3:54:00BubblemanI like how it started as two dabs and then your off-camera voice said, oh, it was more than two dabs, bro.

3:54:09SpeakerWell, I mean, it was probably like... Yeah, that was probably like we had... Like 47. Two or three dabs of it. Two or three dabs. It wasn't huge dabs.

3:54:24SpeakerBut the other thing that I think is... I think terpenes play a really unique role, as we've talked about it before. The Dog Walker Terp Oil that we made tested 88% overall cannabinoids. And this is utilizing... A full melt bubble into a rosin with, you know, about 8 to 10, I would say more like 10 drops per 0.4 grams of pressed rosin, something like that. And it was 400 milligrams of terpenes and 480 milligrams of...

3:55:06SpeakerThank you for joining us.

3:55:35SpeakerWell, we were talking about pure THC versus like as we start adding terpenes, we start to see a big difference. And I'm sure flavonoids have a lot to do with it too. That's an under, you know, really undiscovered platform. We've got a little bit of information on it, but I think that with terpenes is changing colors and changing the way that it pushes on receptors THC or CBD.

3:56:03SpeakerThe most fascinating one, John, is like when I combined the terpenes with the CBD. That was done with the ACDC and some other things, but I mean, each one of them is really different.

3:56:16BubblemanMan, I took a few days off of terp dipping again just to be like, oh, just go back to dabbing. And Flav came over and we pressed some hash into this super real, really incredible quality rosin. It's really strong. It doesn't have as much of a taste. And man, I'll tell you, the first dip I put in the Cherry AK-47 was like, it was just like revelatory again.

3:56:44BubblemanIt just tasted so fucking delicious and had such a completely different high to it that it made me feel kind of bummed that I don't have like 15 different kinds right now. I just have a couple that still have turps in them. I'm like, I got many empty bottles here.

3:57:01SpeakerWe got to get you to the States, brother.

3:57:04BubblemanI'll be coming down sooner than later.

3:57:09Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, Tony, did you hear that Colin Jeffries passed? Colin Jeffries from TC Labs? He was part of the TC Labs crew. Oh, yeah.

3:57:22SpeakerNo, I heard something about that, man. I just heard something about that yesterday. Does anyone know what happened? It sounded really unusual. He was just working, and then he just stopped working.

3:57:34Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you for watching.

3:57:52BubblemanWe should have a puff for a fallen extractor. Is that what he was, an extractor? Yes.

3:57:56SpeakerYeah, but more than that. I remember him. He was a real nice kid.

3:58:01Dr Mark ScialdoneHe was from Kansas, right, Tony, I think? Yeah. I think he was originally from Kansas, came to Colorado, started making hash. He was in Mike Pesce's crew, right, over at TC Labs?

3:58:10SpeakerYeah.

3:58:12Dr Mark ScialdoneI didn't know him personally. I think we met and hung out like once or twice, but just a young kid.

3:58:17SpeakerI talked to him before because I grew up in Kansas a little bit, so we had that little I remember having a quick conversation with him one day.

3:58:24Dr Mark ScialdoneJust a young kid gone too soon.

3:58:28SpeakerYeah, it's really sad. Life's real fragile and it makes you think about every second. You know, like this guy John that was on, he said he wakes up every morning and says, bonus.

3:58:40BubblemanBonus round. Well, it's like my grandma said, life is short, don't be a dick.

3:58:49BubblemanI'm telling you.

3:58:53SpeakerYour grandmother said that? No, no, she didn't. I didn't think so. All right, let's be real. Let's puff down for this kid. That's what I'm saying. Puff down. I'm going to do a little Super Bowl for him.

3:59:05Dr Mark ScialdoneI can tell you that TBC Labs made the fire. I don't know where he was in their lab, but I know he was one of the guys who certainly posted a lot of pictures of some beautiful hash. And I think there is a fund for his wife and daughter.

3:59:21SpeakerYeah, he had a family.

3:59:23Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, maybe we can... Really young family. I can post that.

3:59:28SpeakerHe just had a baby or something.

3:59:32Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I think if you look at his Facebook background photo, it's the son or daughter being delivered.

3:59:40BubblemanExcuse me.

3:59:43SpeakerSo what could cause that, Mark?

3:59:49Dr Mark ScialdoneBrain aneurysm?

3:59:51SpeakerYeah, what causes just sudden, just all of a sudden? Little air bubbles?

3:59:55Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know. I mean, just again, there's a very delicate balance of blood vessels and blood that flows through the brain. And if you think about it, it's just amazing, like when you're having a headache or in a migraine or anything like that where you have inflammation that's going to impede blood flow to and from the brain. Yeah, I mean, there's certainly a delicate balance there between what...

4:00:21Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't really know. It's not part of my expertise, but I can tell you that there's certainly a delicate balance of what's played right at the blood-brain barrier, which is where some compounds get through and some compounds don't.

4:00:36SpeakerShare a quick way to go. It could be anything. It's genetic, too. Some people have weak arteries or veins in their brain. You don't know. You just got to live your life to the fullest every day. Be good to the ones around you.

4:00:51BubblemanMy grandma passed away from an aneurysm. Literally felt her legs felt a little numb, and she was literally on a hospital table hours later, and her artery was like wet tissue paper. There was just no way they could put it back together.

4:01:04SpeakerIt was so... My grandmother died of a brain aneurysm also.

4:01:11BubblemanYeah. Well, here's to grannies. My granny was awesome.

4:01:19SpeakerThank you, grandmothers. That's my grandmother, I suppose. I think I'm going to wind it down too, gentlemen. I've got chores to do there, as I'm sure you all do, but I'm going to say good day.

4:01:30BubblemanHey, thanks for coming in, Chimera.

4:01:32SpeakerPleasure. Nice chatting with you guys.

4:01:34BubblemanTake it easy. This will be my last dab as well. I think we'll end it on a good note as puffing for the fallen soldiers, the fallen grandmas. The fallen loved ones, family, friends, whoever. Let's have a puff for them and we'll call it a week. We'll call it episode 98. Next week is the Wayne Gretzky episode of Hash Church, so probably going to have to drop some knowledge, figure something out.

4:02:02SpeakerWe got a temple.

4:02:04Dr Mark ScialdoneWe got to make balls. Hash Church 101 will be great. It'll be ball church. We'll have a ball. He was funny. Super ball. Super hash ball.

4:02:18SpeakerMy computer is about to super crash here.

4:02:21BubblemanWell, it's okay because I'm about to say super goodbye. It's 1.02. We rocked three solid hours and I thank everyone on the panel for showing up. Four hours. Four hours. Sorry. What am I paying attention to? Are you high or something? It's the 19 rips of rosin that I took.

4:02:45BubblemanThank Indra for coming on and sharing so many stories. Thank Todd and Etienne and Johnny B and Scaldone and Tony V and Sam the Skunk Man. Rob Clark, wherever you are, thank you. We blew smoke towards the Vatican like motherfuckers this week. You would be proud. And we will continue to do so next week. So thanks Todd McCormick who's not in the room anymore and Chimera and anyone else that left.

4:03:09BubblemanI do appreciate everyone and all the people watching. We will see you next week. It's going to happen. Episode 99. It's not like it's not going to happen. See you then. Peace out.