Cannabis and the Endocannabinoid System

0:02BubblemanWell, hello everybody and welcome to Hash Church episode 99. Not to be confused with episode 99.99999. Probably should have done a bit of a dry sift episode here today, but you know what? Who's to say that that won't happen? I'm going to send off the links here really quick to get our panelists in the room. All right, let me see what we got here. Let's see, let's see.

0:30BubblemanWe'll send off the message to our crew anxiously awaiting. Send off the Skype to Mr. Chimera. And I think we're pretty much done right there. Oh, no, we are not done. I also have to send an email to John. Can't forget about John.

0:53Etienne FontanGood morning, sir.

0:53BubblemanHow are you doing it, Chad?

0:56Etienne FontanI'm doing very, very good. And one reason I'm doing very good.

1:00BubblemanOh, nice new pipe.

1:06Etienne FontanLook what I got from Mothership.

1:08BubblemanExo.

1:10Etienne FontanYes, Sub 8 Exo. I'm happier than a shit-covered fly over here.

1:17BubblemanYeah, that's a lovely piece. I've hit a few times out of those, and they... Absolutely beautiful. I actually hit the crazy opal pink and purpley one that High Integrity got me.

1:27Etienne FontanYeah, I saw your pics of it. It's a sick piece, man.

1:32BubblemanYeah, I think he finally sold it. But welcome D420K and Johnny B into the room as well as Etienne. Hello there, guys. Starting at a Hash Church 90.

1:44Etienne FontanD, in here early this morning. What brought you up so early there, D?

1:51Etienne FontanHe's like, I don't know, I'm muted.

1:53SpeakerI went to bed early last night.

1:57Etienne FontanHe went to bed early.

1:58BubblemanWell, that's what you do for Hash Church, you know? You get ready for Hash Church. All these people that show up at like... All these people that show up at 11 o'clock and the conversation's so deep at that point, you can tell they're trying to get a word in edgewise, but it's like, you showed up too late to get a word in edgewise into Hash Church. So, today...

2:21BubblemanI have invited in Dr. Natasha Rees, or Rise. I'm not sure how she pronounces her last name, but I'll talk to her when she comes in. She's a researcher in Vancouver studying how diet and cannabis can improve health. Natasha has a PhD in the experimental medicine from the University of British Columbia. She holds a master's degree and a four-year bachelor's degree in human nutritional sciences from the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg, my hometown province and city.

2:50BubblemanAnd she's the co-founder of Functional Blends Limited. She's working to develop cannabis-based therapies that target inflammation and pain. And she also designs and develops her own little premium skin care for her brand, Reese Remy Vancouver. So pretty stoked to have her come in. We had her at the Lyft conference come in but the mic was shitty and I felt like the quality of what she was going to be able to share would have been worthwhile to at least getting her in again.

3:19BubblemanSo she's going to come in this morning sometime and share Share some great discussion with us on gut science and all sorts of other things. So she's definitely going to be a wonderful addition to Hash Church this morning, that is for sure.

3:35Etienne FontanWelcome, Dr. Scaldown. Hey, everybody.

3:39DrHow's everyone doing? Hey, welcome, Mark.

3:42Etienne FontanGood. How did your presentation go this week, Doctor?

3:45DrOh, it's not until August the 24th.

3:47Etienne FontanOh, man, you've got weeks then. You can do the whole thing by then.

3:55BubblemanAugust 24th, that's when the Canadian ACMPR goes into effect that they just announced recently, so that's a good day.

4:04SpeakerAnd that's the start of the Legends Valley Music Festival on the island with this big cannabis bio cup that's happening. It's going to be an epic day.

4:15DrAwesome. A good day on many levels.

4:20BubblemanAbsolutely. It's always good to have a good day on many levels. I think I'm going to start... Don't you mean dab-solutely? Dab-solutely.

4:27Etienne FontanGreat job. Dab-solutely. So I think I'm going to... New phrase, dab-solutely. When everything's so good, you need a dab.

4:34BubblemanAll right. Well, this is my third time I'm going to try to say this. I am going to try and start this day with 99.9% dry sift because it is episode 99.

4:46BubblemanAnd it probably makes a good sense to slap a little sift in the bowl.

4:52DrParty like it's 99.

4:53BubblemanI'll pull up my 99. 99, there you go. I'm down, I'm down.

4:58Etienne FontanDoes that mean we're doing 99 dabs this entire thing?

5:03Speaker99 dabs on hash shift 99.

5:04DrI got an event to do this afternoon. Is that like 99 bottles of beer on the wall?

5:11BubblemanIn 1999, I started my company, Fresh Headies. What were you guys doing?

5:18SpeakerI was not smoking hash in 1999, but I am smoking 99.9%.

5:25Etienne FontanI was managing my first cannabis dispensary in Oakland.

5:28BubblemanHell yeah. Time. Because I met Debbie.

5:35SpeakerHell yeah, Debbie's time.

5:37BubblemanI had just met her the year before.

5:43BubblemanShe came up with the BPG crew. I have pictures of them at my old house a couple of doors down with Hillary, and that was sort of like the first time I'd ever heard the name, the Berkeley Patients Group.

5:55Etienne FontanYeah. Oh, we've been around. We're coming up on our 17th year here in October. Awesome. Yep, she's almost old enough to vote.

6:07BubblemanWell, congratulations to BPG, and I have to say, I've mentioned it before, but I'm super stoked. To have developed a relationship with you guys to start carrying the Bubble Man brand. Looking forward to that.

6:19Etienne FontanAnd I am enjoying the living hell out of it myself. That's what I started off with.

6:24BubblemanSome of the sour kush cleaner this morning.

6:28Etienne FontanAnd I'm still going through my chalice kit. So I'm going through, you know, working down my rosins as well as my hashes. But I have 20... Dabbers set up already that I'm going to go through in church before I start rotating through. So I've got them all loaded and ready. So all I have to do is just dab.

6:46BubblemanI love how you load and get everything ready for your dab session. You've shown it a few times, your little glass plate full of dabs. I think it's great. Can you show us that plate, buddy? Oh, it's an oil select. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Those are big dabs, bro. Those are fucking awesome.

7:10Etienne FontanYou know, you got to, you know, play or go home, right? So I'm ready to get off the big porch.

7:17IndraGo play.

7:19BubblemanThat's awesome. Hey, D, let's hear it. Bong rip, mother lovers. Let's have a bong rip. Well, I want to shout out Concentrated X. Oh yes. Beautiful gifts of late. Flower rosin today, strawberry banana that I'm going to be puffing on. I got another one. This one is a bubble hash rosin. Let me make this screen bigger on my screen so you can actually see. This one is a bubble hash rosin, but check out what he writes on the back.

7:51BubblemanYou can see that.

7:54Etienne FontanI'll read it. Please small, read it.

7:56BubblemanExclusive private stash product for Bubble Man. For my personal head stash, this product was made using five and six star bubble, which was made in January of 2014, cold stored, cured two and a half years, then pressed. Extremely strong and delicious. Enjoy, brother.

8:13SpeakerThat is awesome.

8:15BubblemanThat's awesome. Fucking cool, man. That is a very cool little kick down. I won't be puffing this today. I'm going to do a video with Flav. We've got some epic glass put aside, and we're going to smoke this whole gram on that video.

8:28Etienne FontanIt's also sealed in that container, which is superb for that.

8:32BubblemanDude, and look at the color of this guy's product.

8:39Etienne FontanYes, Ross. Fire, fire, fire. That must stink nice, huh?

8:46BubblemanAnd smells like the most insane strawberry banana flavor I have ever, I have never smelled rosin this loud in my life. Fucking dude, you are killing it Concentrated X, so I think I've blown enough smoke up your ass for today, but once again, you're a fucking great dude. Go follow him on Instagram, Concentrated X. Yeah, he's got great pictures too, but he's definitely very good at selecting and growing his cultivars, which is

9:16Etienne FontanSo I saw you and Chris Bennett went skateboarding this week, how'd that go?

9:20BubblemanOh my god, Chris Bennett's the funnest person to hang out with, he's just, he's fun, he wants to do activities, he's not like let's sit and just do nothing, he's like let's go do something. So I'm like alright, let's go electric skateboarding and first he takes me on the road and it's amazing and we get back to the car and I'm like that was awesome dude. And he's like, yeah, now we got to go off-roading.

9:43BubblemanAnd he pulls out like another electric skateboard, obviously, because the one I was on was dead. His was the brand new GT Evolve, so it lasted and lasted and lasted. But we ended up going and doing an off-road session as well, which is obviously up on Bubble Man's World there. And the video definitely doesn't give you the full excitement of how fun it actually is to be on a skateboard.

10:03BubblemanRolling through a forest and going over like roots and rocks and gravel and stuff. I think it's, you know, it's actually something that I'm hoping when Natasha gets in here that we're going to be talking about. She had a bunch of different points. She wanted to talk about health benefits of terpenes found in cannabis, plants and foods other than cannabis that can activate our endocannabinoid system. And this is the one right here.

10:28BubblemanLifestyle factors that activate your endocannabinoid system. Exercise, acupuncture, getting the chi energy flowing. Sitting and watching and playing video games for five hours at a time is probably not going to activate your endocannabinoid system. I like the idea of talking about different activities where people that, you know, a lot of people are in rough shape and they're using cannabis as a medicine, but they're not really accessing the dietary or the exercise and the other health ramifications that they could be taking care of.

10:59BubblemanAnd I'm excited to kind of dwell into that because for me I've always been stoked on activity and I didn't really realize that these activities could in fact be activating my endocannabinoid system and getting me even more prepared Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you next time.

11:34Etienne FontanThank you so much for joining us today. We'll be right back after this short break.

12:05DrAnd so as those cannabinoids are released, you need to definitely do a purge there. So there's a burn and purge. You need to basically turn over the fluids in your body by just consuming a lot of liquid and especially high mineral content juices and whatnot to get your kidneys working because your kidneys will help establish equilibrium concentrations of these ions that are in your body. But it'll help pass all the cannabinoids out that was in that layer of fat that you just burned, so absolutely.

12:36BubblemanI like the idea of burning fat and then cannabinoids also in there getting burned again.

12:41DrYeah, think about it. You're like, yeah. It makes sense, right? Yeah.

12:46Etienne FontanIt would be great if we could quantify it into a ratio such as if you have this much intake, you walked or ran for this amount of time, it would be the equivalent of smoking a joint or doing a couple of bowls. Welcome, Doctor.

13:02BubblemanYes, hello. Welcome, Natasha.

13:05Etienne FontanGood morning, Natasha.

13:07BubblemanWe gave a little brief lowdown on some of the things you wanted to come and chat about today, and I read your nice little intro there, and we're excited to have you back. Hello.

13:19SpeakerCan you guys hear me okay?

13:20BubblemanWe can hear you very well. You got your earbuds in. I should probably put my headphones in. Welcome, Natasha.

13:27SpeakerNice to meet you. Thank you. Nice to meet you, too. Good morning, Natasha. Good to see you again. Yes, nice to see you again. Great to see you in that stretch, really.

13:39Etienne FontanWell, Natasha, we were just talking about how, you know, cannabis was stored in the fatty cells and how when you exercise they break down and re-metabolize into the bloodstream. And, you know, Bubble Man was telling us how you're going to enlighten us on the gut science of cannabis. So we're all excited to have you here this morning. So thank you for being here.

14:01BubblemanThank you. Yeah, I'm not sure if you've met Etienne before, Natasha. Etienne runs the Berkeley Patients Group down in California, long-time cannabis activist and one of our hash church regulars who actually shows up at 9 o'clock every single Sunday morning, which is incredible.

14:21SpeakerBeautiful. Nice to meet you.

14:23BubblemanIt's a pleasure. Welcome to Tony as well in the room, Tony Verzura from United Cannabis and Blue River Terpenes. I like it. Got the backlit thing going on there very well.

14:36SpeakerYeah, I'm just on the deck today.

14:38BubblemanWell, that's doable. The deck is good.

14:42SpeakerNice out today.

14:44BubblemanYeah, so we were just talking about lifestyle factors that activate our endocannabinoid system. Sort of, Etienne was asking me about my skateboarding trip with Chris Bennett, and I sort of got into the fact that one of the things I most really am stoked on cannabis for is Not necessarily inhaling more and more and more of it, but after I do inhale some of it, I love to do physical activity.

15:08BubblemanI love to get very active in my body, and I'm healthy enough that I'm able to, and so I just, if we want to sort of open a little discussion on what's going on exactly when we're activating, how are we activating our endocannabinoid systems through things like acupressure and exercises and

15:28SpeakerAwesome. Yeah, I checked out your video and that looks very, very fun. The electronic, or the electric skateboard that looked, I was jealous, honestly. I want to bring everyone's attention to a paper that was just released. I'm just going to find it. So this is a paper by Dr. Ethan Russo. And if you want to learn more about dietary factors that can target your endocannabinoid system and enhance it, this is a great paper.

16:02SpeakerYes. So that is one of the papers everyone should check out. So it's called Beyond Cannabis, Plants, and the Endocannabinoid System. And then the other paper... I'm also going to just talk a little bit about is by John McPartland, Jeffrey Guy, and Vincent D Marzo. And it's Care and Feeding of the Endocannabinoid System. And this paper is awesome. It's a great review. Going through everything that you guys were just talking about, exercise and other lifestyle factors that can balance, activate, and help regulate our endocannabinoid system.

16:43SpeakerAnd what's really cool about these things is for people using cannabis, it actually makes the cannabis work better. And I know a lot of people have issues who are using cannabis medically where they find a strain doesn't work as good or they get something where they feel like the cannabis isn't working as well. If they can incorporate lifestyle factors like exercise and even things like acupressure, massage, even maybe sauna or things that can activate our heat sensing receptors, all of these things make our endocannabinoid system work better and will make you feel better.

17:19SpeakerSo this first paper, this one by John McPartland, he's the first author, Thank you so much for joining us.

17:45SpeakerI love the secondary title as well, A Systematic Review of Potential Clinical Interventions That Upregulate the Endocannabinoid System.

18:14SpeakerYeah, and so that is a really interesting area of research that I'm getting into also. So again, Dr. Ethan Russo, he's a researcher and medical doctor in the States, and he works for Phytex. So they're a company that is focused on targeting the endocannabinoid system through diet and natural strategies. So actually if you go to their website, Phytex, P-H-Y-T-E-C-S, they have a really nice Thank you so much for joining us.

19:09SpeakerBut it actually doesn't. What it does is it contains compounds that can inhibit our FAW enzymes. And so if we have less FAW enzymes, then our body can make more anandamide. So it's in a roundabout way. So there's foods that can do a bunch of things for our endocannabinoid system. So some of them can boost our CB1 receptor. Some foods can boost our CB2 receptor. Some things can interfere with our FAW enzymes, all kinds of things.

19:37SpeakerSome foods, for instance, something like carrot is actually a little bit controversial because it contains a compound that can actually block our CB1 receptor. So some people wonder if you're drinking high amounts of carrot juice, could this be bad if you're trying to get this receptor working? But again, these compounds are found in pretty small amounts, so more research needs to be done if this is actually true in real life situations or if this is just happening in test tubes, right?

20:06BubblemanYeah, it's getting deep.

20:09SpeakerYeah, and it is so complicated because, for instance, we're finding out things like in low doses might be good, might stimulate these receptors, but then when you go into mid doses it has a completely different effect, and then again you go into super high doses and then it can blunt out a whole receptor and you get a completely different response. So it gets very confusing when you start looking into all the research and one study shows one thing and one study shows something else, and so people start thinking that This isn't real, but when you break down into all these little details, it makes sense.

20:42SpeakerThe system is so nuanced, and there's so many different supportive factors, so if one part isn't working right, another part might come in to support it, because as we all know, the system is important for so many things. And then that also brings in, like, I can talk about this a little bit later, but how our genetic... Thank you so much for joining us.

21:24SpeakerThank you for joining us.

21:46SpeakerSo there's, for instance, there's with our, again going back to the FAW enzyme, so that's F-A-A-H, and that's the enzyme that breaks down anandamide. So there's a certain segment of the population where they have a SNP, so a mutation, that causes their FAW enzyme to not work as well. But what this actually means is they naturally have more anandamide, so they are calmer. So there's a segment of the population that because they have this genetic mutation, it's thought that they can respond better to cannabis, whereas other people have this different mutation and perhaps that makes them anxious when they have cannabis.

22:28SpeakerSo with this project, we want to get people's genetics profiles and start looking at how they respond to cannabis and see if we can find some trends going back to this. But anyway, I just dumped a lot of information on you guys, so... Where do we send our genetics to? I could give you some of my hair or saliva. Tony? I have one hair to send her if that's enough to get my genetics.

22:55SpeakerI just need your spit. You need my spit? Well, I don't, but so... Yeah, so if anyone wants to participate, what they can actually do is sign up with something like 23andMe, and you can buy a kit there and get your genetics analyzed. So I've done that. And then you can, if you know how to go into the system and what little snips to look for, then you can actually see if you have these different little changes.

23:24SpeakerSo... I'm going to write a little protocol so people can do this. So anyone who's gotten their DNA analyzed through 23andMe can just... I'll make it really easy, so it'll just be like five steps. Because it's not that hard, you just need to know the exact little code and how to search for it. But anyway, I'll show you guys how to do that. And so if anyone wants to see...

23:47SpeakerWhat their SNPs are in terms of some of these receptors, you can do it. So I think the kits are for Canadians, they cost about $250, and for Americans I think they're about $200. $199, yep. $199, yeah. $249, I'm just looking at the link right now. $23 and me, welcome to. Yeah, and it's a pretty cool program. I mean, you still have to be a little concerned with...

24:15SpeakerI mean, an American company owning your genetic information, there's still some issues with that. So for some people who are sick, they may be concerned about... I don't know. Anyway, just think about that. Don't just read through the protocols. Don't just be like, hey, I have my DNA. I did it. I think it's fine. But... If you sign up, get your DNA analyzed, they provide so much information.

24:44SpeakerThe platform is actually quite impressive. And you can just go on there and they tell you all kinds of things, like I have an unusual amount of Cro-Magnum-ness in me.

24:55Etienne FontanSo Ancestry.com does the same, right?

24:59SpeakerI don't know. Do they do DNA analysis also?

25:02Etienne FontanAs far as I know, yes.

25:04SpeakerOkay, I'm not familiar with their platform very much. Yeah, that would be new.

25:10SpeakerBecause, yeah, the 23andMe, or sorry, the other, sorry, what was the other one you just mentioned?

25:17Etienne FontanAncestry.

25:19SpeakerAncestry. I'm not sure if they actually do the DNA analysis. I know they, like, obviously set up the family trees and all those kinds of things. Because there's a lot of platforms that once you get the DNA analyzed, you can put your data into it and it's compatible and then they'll do a search with it. Um... What is it called? Yeah, but 23andMe for sure does it, and their platform is great.

25:47SpeakerThey give you a lot of info. And not even... The other thing that I thought was, like, the original reason why I did the 23andMe is they actually show, with your genetic info, how you metabolize drugs. So, like, if you have to go on any, like, specific types of, like, I think I'm, I have, my proton pump inhibitor doesn't work as well in me. That was the thing I found.

26:10SpeakerSo there's, like, weird little, depending on how your genetic makeup is, you might metabolize drugs differently. So that was the part of it that I found really interesting. Okay.

26:20BubblemanIt must make studying the endocannabinoid system incredibly difficult when you also have, oh, and by the way, everyone's going to be a little bit different.

26:29DrYeah. There's also 50 other systems, only three of which we really fully know, and five other systems that we don't even fully know yet. I mean, it's just a whole mish of stuff going on in there. Just what we understand is just… We're at the infancy party.

26:45SpeakerSmall, small, small.

26:47DrYeah.

26:48SpeakerIt's, yeah. And, I mean, the more you know, like you guys are figuring out, like, the more you know, the more you realize, like, holy crap, we don't know anything. Like, we're just beginning to learn what this amazing thing does. And it's exciting, though.

27:03BubblemanIt is exciting. I'm pretty excited about what you just shared, the little snips and that ability to sort of, Just we're all about unveiling and seeing that truth that is cannabis and we want to understand it or overstand it if you're of Rastafarian belief. They use the term overstand and I like that term in a sense that just being able to have that overview, it really seems as though right now we're possibly In a corner, staring into the corner with all the lights off, and that's sort of metaphorically where we're at with our cannabis knowledge, I have a feeling that we are going to learn an enormous amount about this plant and this system that it engages with in the next 10 years of science.

27:47BubblemanAnd people like yourself who are studying these papers, writing these papers, and you Sharing all this amazing information I never would have thought when I was in high school that I would be so stoked to print a paper and then read it. And the shortcomings that come with reading papers like this because not everyone has the ability to understand the language and the way it's written. And therefore, now suddenly there's words that you might not understand and you're looking it up in the thesaurus.

28:18BubblemanAnd it's great because you're building your intelligence. And it seems as though almost all forms of entertainment today are designed to kill our intelligence. It's nice to have one out there that's still available to us to build and grow our intelligence.

28:35SpeakerAbsolutely. Yeah. And yeah, I still didn't even really answer the questions about exercise and our endocannabinoid system. But the info on that even is still new, right? Like we're still... But if we think of like... I mean, just go for a run. You feel better after. You feel like the runner's high, right? So it's being shown that in, like, this research is being done in animal studies so they can put, like, a mouse on, you know, something running and they can measure the levels of different animals Thank you for joining us.

29:31SpeakerThank you for joining us.

29:55SpeakerAnd look at the Olympics, you know, like the fastest man in water and the fastest man on land, I believe both actually use cannabis.

30:04Etienne FontanYeah.

30:04SpeakerAnd they, well the Olympics actually said they could, but they can't do it the day of. So it's, you know, like how does that, you know, affect, that's like really cool research to see that sports science, how someone like, someone trained like Michael Phelps would have that stored and released during that particular time, you know. Yeah, and even just like my background is inflammation. That's what I really understand and so how cannabis can help with just post-training inflammatory tone and help muscle recover faster and Thank you.

30:42SpeakerThank you. Thank you.

31:10SpeakerCBD paired with ACDC terpenes. And when it first came out, there was a lot of people that were using weightlifters and athletes. And I wasn't really even thinking about what that effect would be. But I found a 3 to 1 non-activated and the CBD with the ACDC terpenes paired in capsule or sublingual therapy. But mostly they had a lot of reports of like muscle recovery. So we had like a climbers for cannabis using that same kind of program.

31:48SpeakerSo they're taking it as a pre-workout. And they're saying that their muscle recovery is much faster and better while they're actually doing like rock climbing or biking or weightlifting but also afterwards and especially as a topical. Just interesting how those muscles are responding, I think, you know. Yeah. New territory. You said, sorry, it was, what was the ratio again? It was higher CBD? Yeah, so there was one that they're using.

32:19SpeakerIt's a three-to-one non-active CBDA, THCA, and that one was really good for anti-inflammatory. Yeah, yeah. And then the CBD activated it. Thank you for joining us.

32:58SpeakerI think it's kind of untapped. I think you're going to get a lot of really cool data and research as you go deeper into what you were talking about. Yeah, and even what you said with topicals also, like the topicals for athletics and muscle recovery is, it just surprises me that it's not more mainstream because people who are using that for muscle recovery, it's phenomenal. And especially for people who are concerned about having a high or don't want that, like the topicals, it's like beautiful.

33:31SpeakerYou get the pain relief and the muscle relief. Thank you for joining us.

33:59DrSo we've been talking about a lot of different things that underpin some of the stuff that you were discussing. And one of them is cannabinoid receptor expression, which there is now evidence to show that actually there's an outside-in signal of upregulation of cannabinoid level expression With different terpenes and so like Tony was mentioning adding terpenes to this cannabinoid isolate. So the terpenes and the way that they synergize and the way that they make cannabinoids work can happen on many, many different levels.

34:41DrAnd as you know, they increase the permeability through the bilayer, which basically, the analogy that I used, Natasha, was I said it's like opening up the windows at your house on a nice day and you start exchanging the outside air with the inside air of your home and it just becomes a different environment. Well, the same thing happens with cells and so terpenes Increase all kinds of permeability and it starts up regulating through the calcium signaling.

35:13DrAll kinds of biological processes that it's almost myopic to think that that's not going to somehow affects like the Krebs cycle or it's not going to somehow affect our body's natural way of metabolizing sugars or the way that the cells build proteins. And so one of the things that you said that I think is absolutely fascinating, which is that, you know, this is, you know, it's a lifestyle thing.

35:42DrSo it's like how you feel and certain people are more calm and what that basically says is that they have a mutation that basically makes them more anandamide rich. So they don't need to maybe smoke to get to the same spot that somebody would need to smoke who doesn't have that mutation. And so now what you can see is that between the genetic makeup of what happens in the body and what happens now in the plant, so you have a lot of people on this panel who know all the different strains and varieties and flavors, and so you have this complete spectrum of not only different cannabinoids but different terpenes.

36:23DrAnd now the different products, like you said, transdermal, hey, that's low-lying fruit. If you have skin cancer, Thank you for joining us.

36:51DrThe endocannabinoid system, and that's again where Ethan has always been, and I think there's going to be a whole body of research that's going to really enlighten all kinds of things, and I really do think that CBD is the next vitamin C. Ten years from now, CBD will be fortified in children's cereal. It'll be in baby food. It'll be everywhere in the food chain. If it's processed and you can put secret sauce in it, CBD is going to be in there.

37:16DrSo I just do think that these fat-soluble compounds There's a reason why it takes a long time to pass a piss test because it's an evolved trait for human beings to hold on to these compounds as long as you possibly can because they're so nutritionally good for you.

37:35BubblemanAnd hard to get and expensive.

37:39DrWell, that's just due to prohibition, Marcus, right? That's right.

37:42BubblemanA little prohibition joke there. Prohibition is a joke.

37:47DrBut really it's an evolved trait how these are stored in Oedipus tissue and then released during exercise like you say. They're fat soluble antioxidants and one of my areas of expertise is cancer. I got a plaque on the wall there of Some discoveries we made that we were able to find out unique mechanisms to intervene between tumors and their ability to reroute vascular plumbing. And cannabinoids, this is called angiogenesis, cannabinoids plays a very, very crucial role in tumor angiogenesis.

38:21DrAnd we're trying to take advantage of the fact that we can basically trick the tumor by basically flooding it with cannabinoids. So yeah, it's a fascinating field. We're psyched to be participating.

38:32SpeakerSo with the tumors, I always, once upon a time, was wondering if there was, when you're talking about tricking tumors, and we know tumors feed off of glucose or sugars, and we tell cancer patients, you know, You know, try to rid your body of sugars and, you know, pay attention to acidities of the foods and things that you're putting in your body. But we can put a, I always thought about putting a Trojan horse out there, if you will.

38:57SpeakerOnce you rid your body of all that, then pretty much figuring out a way to kind of create a Trojan horse where the tumor sees that glucose, but lo and behold, it's disguised and it has a army of cannabinoids within it, you know, and to pull it in and kill it from the inside out.

39:17DrYeah, well, there's a really cool little four-minute-long video that if you're really interested in tumor biology, it's just a fascinating bit. It's Nature's on YouTube videos, and it basically shows the fundamental biochemistry of why tumor metabolism of sugar is different in something called the Warburg effect as opposed to in the natural Krebs cycle. But again, just taking a step back and looking at how the endocannabinoid system, again, is the body's own pharmaceutical company, okay?

39:52DrAnd so when there is damage and when there is inflammation, it's mediated typically by the endocannabinoid receptors, which again can be enhanced by fortification with phytocannabinoids. And so again, if there is an inflammatory response because of anything from an insect bite to... Um, some type of injury. I mean, certainly a transdermal penetration formulation of cannabinoids should help an inflammatory response in damaged tissue.

40:24SpeakerSo, that's why, uh, I think that's what the lady was doing when they do Squatch. They were using our, uh, the CBD transdermal topical that I made. And they were just, that's where the claim's coming from. The recovery of how sore your muscles are afterwards, um, By using that. So maybe that's kind of the first step for breaking down barriers in sports is creating some kind of anti-inflammatory type of topical, you know.

40:54SpeakerIt looks like we're going to have to take little baby steps along the way because the DEA is not budging and I wanted to get both your, Mark, and Natasha's input on what do you think... You know, this decision has on research, and is it just federal research like their own programs, or is this opening this up for, let's say, you and I wanted to research something together, Scaldone, or, you know, in the United States.

41:26SpeakerSo what is, what does that decision do for research? Obviously we know where it puts us for the controlled substance, but is it, is it actually opening research? And then there was also, the second part to my question is the eight pages of, uh, There was about eight pages that was attached about hemp and compounds derived from hemp and what they thought. I don't know if you had a chance to read that, but it kind of puts farmers in a really odd position right now.

41:56SpeakerWhat did it say? Did it say anything? I didn't read that part. Did it say anything about hemp? Yeah, it just basically said that they deemed all compounds, even from hemp, as Schedule 1, even CBD. Oh, so nothing really changed.

42:14SpeakerYeah, but I mean, that's like driving a point home that kind of was faded before, you know?

42:21DrRight. Well, you and I had discussed this, Tony, like about a year ago on church, and it's just the ambiguous wording of the, you know, Controlled Dangerous Substance Act in light of the 2002 Ninth Circuit Court ruling that basically gave the hemp oil a distinction from All of the other things that were listed on the CDS. But still, if you ask an attorney, I mean, the CDS is kind of like the overarching thing.

42:55DrThat's the federal thing. It basically says anything derived from cannabis is Schedule 1. You can't get around that. You have to just get it off the schedule. And that's what's frustrating to me is when The National Institutes of Health and the National Cancer Institute and every national institute that takes billions and billions of dollars has a neuroscience summit to inform on policy and this is the result?

43:25DrThis is just total fucking bullshit, especially in light of the 507 patent, right, which we've discussed many times here on Hash Church, which is the patent that the United States government has on neuroprotective We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do.

44:06DrAnd to basically knock out the industry as we know it. Period. And that's because of the big money that's at stake. It's all about the, what did Deep Throat say? It's all about the fucking money, which is a shame. It's not about the people. It's about the money.

44:23SpeakerWell, you definitely need money for... Well, that didn't answer my first part of the question about research. But I actually do appreciate the expressionism on this subject matter. I think anyone that's involved is like burning up inside just like you are just so fucking...

44:45DrIt's hypocritical. A patent which requires utility, you can only have utility. The patent office will not grant anything and the patent office doesn't give a shit about schedules. So if the patent office granted this patent saying that cannabinoids have neuroprotective activities... How could it be on Schedule 1 where, by definition, it has no... Medical value. Yeah. It's absolutely a scam. And it's a crime against humanity perpetrated by the U.S. government.

45:20DrThe DEA is in collusion with the FDA. Clearly. Clearly. And it's all about the fucking money, which is a shame.

45:28SpeakerAnd even what you were asking about, like, what does this change for research... It sounds good, but unfortunately it doesn't, I don't know if it's actually going to make a lot of changes for research. So what changed is originally researchers could only apply to get cannabis from one location. So this was at the University of Mississippi. And so now they want to change it so more universities The institutions will be able to grow cannabis.

46:02SpeakerAnd this is great. This is a step forward. However, since it's still considered a Schedule I compound, it's still going to have the stigma attached with it where researchers are going to have to approach studying it again from this is a bad thing, what is bad about it. So, for instance, I had read something that a 2015 analysis from Arizona State University They found that between 2008 to 2014, so six years, 1.4 billion of the NIH spent on cannabis research.

46:36SpeakerSo 1.4 billion that they spent. 1.1 billion was for abuse and addiction studies. Only 297 million was actually on medical cannabis. This is a major problem. So just if you're studying cannabis and it always has to be from, like if you look at PubMed and you look at all the research, it's always addiction, addiction, addiction. It's rarer to find the medical research. I mean, they're out there for sure.

47:02SpeakerBut it's the frame of that researchers have to frame their research when they're applying to actually get the research accepted, unfortunately. And then the other issue is that It really isn't going to change anything for businesses or pharmaceutical companies to develop cannabis-based products because with the current regulations, basically if you develop a product from a strain of cannabis, it has to be developed from the same strain.

47:35SpeakerMaybe with now research, our universities having access to their own cannabis strains, they'll want to, I don't see how that can become commercial, so I just don't really understand how this is going to move forward. Like, a major problem with research everywhere right now is funding. Researchers just don't have any money. So unless there's a commercial interest, I don't know how there's going to be money for research.

47:59SpeakerWell, you can't even move money around, you know. Yeah, so... It causes a problem with banking, so it's like, hey, I want you to research something. Yeah, go ahead and wire me the money. Well, about that. And then, yeah, and then there's a huge stigma. So a lot of universities just don't even want to be associated with cannabis research.

48:18DrSo, for instance... Well, that fortunately is changing. I got good news there because there's several universities, in fact, universities that are associated with very large hospitals... In fact, the Jefferson University here in Philadelphia, which has a very large hospital, is basically turning on a dime and saying, no, we're going to embrace this and we're going to develop a curriculum and we're going to teach this as part of our medical school.

48:42DrSo I think we're in the process of seeing that change. I really do.

48:47SpeakerThat makes me happy.

48:48DrI agree.

48:49SpeakerPhiladelphia is also in that area has the most,

48:54DrYeah, so the Pennsylvania reg, which is now out, well, it's going to be out very shortly. Basically, they're going to grant, I think, six licenses to the research hospitals throughout the state of Pennsylvania. I actually have a list of those hospitals somewhere. Actually, to be a long story short, basically have those hospitals which we need, which right now Big Pharma has wrapped up in their clinical trials, to actually do legitimate double-blind things to find out basically what we already know is that cannabis is effective at treating PTSD.

49:28DrIt's effective at treating epilepsy. We're going to find out everything that we already know, and that's great because then they'll feel happy about Thank you for joining us.

49:54DrThank you for watching.

50:14DrDogs Hind Leg. I mean, this person does not deserve to be in the position to be basically running this agency. And really, in the week that Malia Obama gets caught on video smoking a joint at Lollapalooza, and I don't know if you guys saw it, but on my Facebook page, I got a picture of Barack right after being in Willie Nelson's trailer, and you can't see Barack's eyes.

50:42DrThey're two slits. So you know Barack got all nice with Willie Nelson in the trailer. I hope Willie tore him a new one and said, look, you've got to do something before you leave the White House. Executive action. Get it off the list right now, Obama, because you have failed on this issue on many levels. You need to take it off the list because the DEA's decision this week is basically stifling to many, many aspects of the business.

51:10DrIt's ridiculous.

51:11Etienne FontanWell, it still hasn't stopped us, and it's not going to stop us. That's why we encourage and welcome researchers all the time into Berkeley Patients Group so that we have a living laboratory of patients. We're not going to wait. We've all chosen to cross that line, and so nothing's really changed. It's not like you're going to stop doing your research. Nothing's going to stop the momentum that we have gained.

51:39Etienne FontanI mean, honestly, you really expected those that are perpetuating the drug war to all of a sudden just discover the science that we've been shoving down their throats for decades and then come out with their tail between their legs? This dinosaur is going to go down like a dinosaur old and the meteor is going to strike it and it will be leveled and out of existence. It doesn't belong on a schedule.

52:03Etienne FontanI understand that. I know that more than anyone. I've been test case for the State Board of Equalization, etc. But at the same time, I'm a realizt and understand where we are and what's going on and that we still have a lot of work to do. And we've never relied on these guys to basically assist us in any way, shape, or form. So to expect them all of a sudden to now acquiesce, be like, oh, you know what?

52:26Etienne FontanYou're right, guys. You were so right. You know, we were wrong. They don't admit they're wrong, okay? And they're not going to start admitting they're wrong now. So at that point, I'm going to bow out, and I'm going to welcome Indra. Hi, Indra.

52:41IndraHey, can you guys even hear me?

52:43Etienne FontanWe can totally hear you.

52:45BubblemanI want to also welcome Indra as well as Sabo into the room who also just showed up. Hey Sabo. Good morning.

52:54SpeakerWhat a great morning. There's been a lot of action this morning on Hash Church. It's not even 10 o'clock yet and it feels like four hours of info.

53:03BubblemanListen, Natasha started speaking and after five minutes or less, people were like, oh wow, she's really smart. And I'm like, yeah, she's been talking for five minutes.

53:14DrIt's a four hour show. I'm sorry about that. The DEA rant, sorry about that. I think it fit to Hash Church properly, you know, I mean, honestly, it was the most accurate time to do that rant, because really, it's always... Well, I'm noticing, Marcus, that Todd's not here, so I was just filling in for Todd as being the guy on the panel with the rant.

53:38SpeakerWell, they definitely can't say Mark Scaldone doesn't have any balls, because he's got balls. Yeah.

53:46BubblemanSomeone's asked the question of whether Natasha can mention anything about using lecithin in cannabis edibles.

53:56SpeakerI've heard people doing that. Don't exactly know why. I guess it's an emulsifier.

54:05DrYes, that's exactly what it is, right?

54:07Etienne FontanYeah, it breaks down the cannabis so it's much more absorbable in the digestive tract for uptake. And I have found it when playing with, be careful, lecithin. I've made lassies with fat yogurt. I've also made it with soy lecithin. Thank you so much for joining us.

54:40Etienne FontanAnd with fat yogurt. And you couldn't have more than a cup and it would completely destroy a party. I mean, it was to the point where I stopped making them because it was just, you know, one cup, sip, done. Everybody's just basically staring at the wall. It just becomes way too narcotic. So be careful if you're doing it in your edibles. Try it without it. If you want to go there, go there.

55:04Etienne FontanBut realize you're going there.

55:07SpeakerAnd I don't like the soy lecithin either. There's other lecithins out there. I would stay away from soy one. So do you use it in topicals also or just for edibles mostly?

55:21Etienne FontanI don't do edibles anymore, but when I used to, that's what I made it with, but I don't do topicals. I'm strictly in oral ingestion or inhalation through concentrates strictly. Which is interesting because you were talking earlier. I used to, when I was in the military and before I sustained my injuries in the Gulf, you always have to do PT tests. And part of the PT test was you always had to run two miles in a certain amount of time by body weight and size.

55:52Etienne FontanAnd I hated running with a passion and after I was told to use recommended medical cannabis by a physician and I went for my first PT test and I actually smoked some herb before I ran and I ran my best run in the military I ever ran. I wasn't sitting there staring at my feet going left, right, left, right, one, two, one, two, shit. You know, I would just, I just ran.

56:18Etienne FontanI wasn't thinking about it. And I didn't think about time. And I finished. And it was just a whole different, it just completely was like a night and day in running for me. It was like, holy shit, this is a whole other level of acceptance. So that's what drew me in initially when you were talking about, you know, sports science and use of cannabis and cannabinoids. And wondering how I activated my own cannabinoid system that day, possibly by running, but it also changed my whole perspective regarding running.

56:52SpeakerAnd that's Fascinating because that's a big problem with exercise is people just not enjoying it and it hurting them and it just psychologically being such a barrier to just get out there and doing it. So when you had that experience, did you smoke right before you ran or was it?

57:09Etienne FontanYeah, it was about 20 minutes before because you're always PT's first thing in the morning. So, you know, I Yeah, it was after I showered, hit a couple of hits off of a pipe, you know, got my PT clothes, went down, did my sit-ups, push-ups, and then you finish with the run. And yeah, I didn't think about it at the end. When I looked at my time, I had literally run a minute faster than my best time, even in basic training.

57:34Etienne FontanAnd I was just gobsmacked by that.

57:38IndraWell, listen, I want to say something about the science here, since you brought up the subject. Inadvertently or not, combining a dilettant with the THC is not known anywhere to cause an increase in the high or any part of it. Maybe what was happening was Similar to when you take a dose of THC and put it under your tongue and get it into your bloodstream quicker, so therefore you're getting high and noticing it quicker.

58:09IndraBut the lactose and combining with it and making it more powerful is not on the science scene.

58:19DrIt's the myth, yes. The only thing it's going to do is it's going to emulsify it in an aqueous system. So again, like the glycolipids that are in milk, milk is basically an oil in water emulsion. So if you wanted to have like a cannabis soda pop, which is going to be mostly water, if you're going to have a water-based fluid or a water-based drink, you could use lecithin or any number of other emulsifiers to basically emulsify an oil phase within that continuous aqueous phase.

58:49IndraAnd by emulsifying it, you make it, it's like you give them a bigger surface area in your stomach to absorb the THC. And when you've got a bigger surface area absorbing it, you're going to get high faster and maybe even Thank you for joining us.

59:20Etienne FontanThank you for joining us.

59:39Etienne FontanI've done this over 20 different times, so I know that it's more than a myth.

59:42IndraWell, we're not calling it a myth. What I'm saying is your anecdotal evidence isn't going to match up to science. Understood. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.

59:52BubblemanSomething else may be going on.

59:55DrWhat we call a secondary effect. Right.

59:57SpeakerIt sounds very... Just it being an emulsifier could affect absorption, so it could just be increasing absorption, so that could just be the mechanism.

1:00:08IndraThat's exactly what's happening.

1:00:12SpeakerBut, I mean... Knowing how complicated the endocannabinoid system is, who knows? Lecithin might be signaling somewhere and doing some other thing, so it could be enhancing the THC. Who knows? Dr.

1:00:23DrYes, but I can tell you that colloidal particles will not undergo translocation through biological tissue. It will basically just be disassociated into its cannabinoid and into its fatty acid components. So, likewise, in the stomach, there's no way that you're saying that somehow these colloidal particles are making it into the bloodstream. No way. The stomach is two molar hydrochloric acid, and it's going to tear the shit out of any particles that basically come into it.

1:00:52DrNow, again, there are particles that will undergo sustained release, like remember the contact cold formulation with the thousand tiny time pills that were, you know, Sustained release, again, of these materials that, again, can basically extend the pharmacokinetic profile and plasma level over a longer duration of time.

1:01:18SpeakerBut it wouldn't be absorbed into the blood, but since it's like lecithin is a fat molecule in the small intestine, it could be absorbed through the lymph system.

1:01:30DrAs you pour that fluid down, it goes into your oral mucosa. It's going to get absorbed in your oral mucosa, right? You're basically going to paint your esophagus with this material. Yeah, right. I don't know. It's going to basically be absorbed in between every tissue, every absorbable tissue between your lips and your stomach, right?

1:01:52Etienne FontanAnd remember, I was doing this with leaf, not bud.

1:01:57IndraYeah, well, the mechanism is what we're talking about, not the content of what you put in because you put in THC. THC is THC whether it's a bud or a leaf or whatever the story might be. We have to stick to a kind of Thank you so much for joining us.

1:02:32IndraTouch your stomach in more places and you're going to absorb it faster. So that's the answer. It's plain and simple. There's nothing mysterious about it. Did you get higher than ever before? I'm sure you probably did. Absolutely. And everybody else. Yeah, I'm sure everyone did and anyone who tries it in the future will because it's a very clear transport mechanism of what's going on there. You could get the same effect by...

1:03:00IndraA lot of different things. I remember when Letchison first came around, people were trying to use it to dilute the THC so it would work in the pens. And somebody asked me about it, and because it's an emulsifier, you know, you can spin up the oil to make it burn in a pen. I would never do it because I, you know, let just in, it's in eggs, you get plenty of it.

1:03:32DrIt's a non-volatile phospholipid that thermally degrades that you do not want anywhere near your pen. Thank you for watching.

1:03:57IndraYou still have people doing it. Listen, the word doesn't get to everybody. That's a fantasy world. The word gets like a gravitational wave. It spreads around and it touches people and they understand and they get back to you. But there's a vast majority of people out there who may never hear any of this news who are still thinking, wow, airplane goo, let's go buy some. That's just facts.

1:04:21IndraThat's just the way the world is.

1:04:23DrCan you still buy an airplane?

1:04:26IndraWell, some of the airplanes lately that have been crashing must have been made with airplane glue.

1:04:33DrNo, I mean just in today's snap it together mentality. I mean I got two teenagers and I can tell you raising those kids, if they can't snap it together in five or ten minutes, they're not interested in model airplane that takes two or three days or five days where they have to paint these little parts and glue all this. I think, I don't even know if that Thank you for watching.

1:05:17IndraKids slaps a Puerto Rican kid in school. Why? He's Puerto Rican. Who told you that? Well, the dad said Puerto Rican service. And so that's what happens. And you know what? I grew up on an Army base around the whole world. And guess what? I was always the fucking minority. We grew up in Okinawa. We grew up in Japan. We were in the Philippines. But there was always...

1:05:42IndraJust a few of us and a lot of everybody else. And so I had a unique upbringing about that. And I don't see colors and stuff with people. People are people. And if you shave off the outer layer, man, they all look identical. And people are their own treasure. If you want to know about people, you've got to get a pick and a shovel and be ready to dig because treasure is often buried deep.

1:06:13SpeakerThat's a gruesome image to think of everyone with their skins off, but I agree.

1:06:18IndraThanks.

1:06:21IndraI didn't exactly mean that.

1:06:25BubblemanI thought he was going to start singing Depeche Mode's People Are People there for a second.

1:06:29SpeakerWhen we were talking about science, let's talk about science and real facts. Let's talk about temple balls because you got the whole internet in a frenzy. People are like, all right, what's up with the temple balls?

1:06:43IndraOkay, I've been thinking about this and thinking about this. Last fucking time I released something on the web. The result was a lot of people got high. Don't get me wrong. All the good stuff, everybody knows about it. And all of the extreme bad shit that weighed on me for years and twisted and turned and dug holes in my intestines when I heard about people blowing themselves up, catching them on fire, blowing their houses apart.

1:07:13IndraAnd so that weighed heavy on me, really. You know, I... After the last show, I thought about it, and I thought about it, and I thought about it, and I thought, geez, how can I settle in my heart and mind that this is going to be used properly? It's going to be not changed into something else like the BHO was changed into something else in not a good way.

1:07:47IndraAnd so I've been suffering about that a little bit. And also I haven't had a chance to talk to Mark about it because it in some small way might interfere with a little of the business that we've got planned. But maybe it wouldn't. I'm not sure. I've not had a chance to have a conversation with him because I've been in between the hospital and testing. They keep trying to find out why I'm still alive.

1:08:18IndraAll that kind of crap. And I don't know, Mark, I mean, weigh in on this, bud, because it's an important thing, number one. And number two, I've been paying it forward for a long time, and man, I don't get a lot of encouragement backward this way, except for a lot of people want to know how to do it. Right. Well... I understand.

1:08:48BubblemanIt's your information, John, and you should always follow, you know, you're very committed in the way you are and how you came to be, so I mean, I'm confident that I'm not worried about anything affecting my business. If you want to share something amazing with the world, by all means, I'm happy to offer you this platform to do it. At the same time, it is your information and you need to figure out sharing it or not sharing it.

1:09:18BubblemanYou have my support for sure. I support you sharing it. I support you doing whatever you choose to do because it really is your information. I always say the same thing to Sam who has his own unique technique that people have wanted to know for a long time. He's also similar to yourself. He's given away a lot to the community and, you know, Not gotten as much back, but was always happy to share.

1:09:44BubblemanJust had this last thing he was holding on to, and everybody wants to know it. And they ask me all the time because he was kind enough to show it with me, but I try to explain to them, he's one of my mentors. I look up to him. He's my friend. And I would never break my word to him after him showing me something like that. He's asked me that I wouldn't share it, and so I tell people it's not mine to share.

1:10:09BubblemanAnd your method is not mine to share or to hold back either. You've got to do what you want to do, and you have my support either way.

1:10:20IndraOkay, well, part of this is still kind of protected information, so I'm not going to give you all of it, but I am going to say in advance to this that if I share this with you guys today, what I would like back in return from people is if you find it useful, And if you use it, and if you use it to make money for yourself, I think you need to drop a 20 in an envelope or something and send it to me.

1:11:02IndraThat's one thing. Another thing is, I'm going to make licenses, personal use licenses, available for my patent. Not for commercial use, not for you to sell anything. But merely to make it for yourself. And I'm working now on how to bring that about and make it happen and keep it in a feasible, cheap enough range for a use patent, a use license. So I'm not going to go into that any further just right now at the moment, but I am going to make that.

1:11:37IndraPeople who are interested in that should get in touch with Mark and Mark will weed out jokers and Hopefully. And send me people who are serious about it. So anyway, I don't know, how does that sound to everybody? I mean, does that sound like something that's going to piss you off that I said it?

1:12:00BubblemanI think because it's the internet, it'll make a bunch of people happy and a bunch of people mad. From a reality standpoint, it's beyond reasonable. I think that... I can tell most people probably don't even know what you're about to potentially share with them. If only they fucking knew, but well, maybe they will soon.

1:12:22IndraYeah, well, okay. You got a pencil and paper handy?

1:12:31IndraOh yeah. Those who aren't recording it in real time. Okay, so, like I said, I can't give you the whole thing because I had my hand slapped after last week when I said that, but that's because I'm, you know, that's the real me down inside. I want to fucking give the world... Everything I, if I thought giving all of it away would make the world a happy place, I mean, hello, of course I would.

1:12:59IndraBut I don't think it's going to make the world a happy place. It's just going to make everybody who likes good hash happy. That's what I think. That could be a lot of people. So anyway, this, here's the part of it. You got your trichromes, right? Everybody's got their own method for obtaining like 80 or 100 grams of trichromes. Yes. You take those trichromes and toss them in a bowl.

1:13:29IndraProbably you want to get a bowl that will hold two gallons, stainless steel, not a glass, not a ceramic. I'll explain why in a moment. It will become abundantly clear. Toss the trichromes in the bowl. Then you've got some oil that you've already extracted on the side, say 80, 100 grams of oil, right? Everybody with me? Yes. So you got your oil and you got your trichromes.

1:13:57IndraActually, let's back this pickup truck up a little bit. I'm sorry. You toss the oil in the bowl first. Okay. Huge chunk of oil. Mixing it is going to be a complete pain in the ass as everybody knows with oil, right? Then as soon as you do that, you pour about two quarts or two and a half quarts of liquid nitrogen on top of the oil. Then you just take a mortar or some suitable device and crunch the oil up until it looks like powder, until it looks like trichromes, right?

1:14:29IndraIt'll be floating in the liquid nitrogen everywhere. And you just keep mashing it up until there's no chunks left whatsoever. It's quite easy to do because at minus 196, it's very, very brittle and it'll change into extremely tiny pieces if you're persistent. At that point in time, you pour in the trichromes. You stir it up good with the trichromes, the nitrogen, and the oil. And when you've got it stirred up nice, go set the bowl on the porch.

1:14:56IndraGo back out a half hour later. There is your perfectly combined hash. All you got to do is scoop it out, roll it around in your hands, and it becomes a double ball. It's perfectly combined. And you can't even do it that good with kerosene or gas or anything else. So it's the best way to do it.

1:15:15BubblemanWell, I'm going to give it a shot. I got some rosin. I've got some hash or trichomes. And yeah, that's interesting. It sounded almost like you were going to go into the Baroni technique that Chris from The Clear is doing water hash with liquid nitrogen and coming up with an interesting end product. But this was different than that.

1:15:35SpeakerSo the extracted oil, you're talking about BHO oil?

1:15:42IndraI'm talking about... The way I do it, just so you understand where I'm coming from when I say this, is I extract the trichromes. When I've got those pure off to one side, I then throw the leftovers, the leaf and stuff in the chamber and extract the oil out of it. That's the oil I'm talking about. It's very loose, but when you stick it in, the minute you drop it in liquid nitrogen, it'll start shattering on its own just from expansion from hot to cold.

1:16:11IndraNot really hot, but even just from temperature to extremely cold. A 200 degree temperature change will cause many, many, many fractures. And as you use a big, like I sometimes use a baseball bat to crunch it with in the old days, and you know, you just slam it down back and forth, and bam. Once you add the trichromes, and they're all floating together, they sort of have an affinity one another, and the moment the liquid nitrogen percolates off, which it'll do outside in about an hour, you've got this beautiful, soft, perfectly combined The best trichromes you have and the best oil, and it makes hash that is, leaves no residue when you burn it.

1:16:57IndraIt burns clean.

1:16:59BubblemanIt is kind of a very potent, I mean it's, I've only had a similar thing a few times, not liquid nitrogen, but even your oil with trichromes mixed, and it was It just seemed to be more than oil and more than hash. It seemed to be some other thing.

1:17:17IndraIt gets psychedelic, but you know, the chemist is sitting there, so maybe he can give you the hows. What I notice is when I extract, I spray in the top of the chamber, and this creates adiabatic cooling in the chamber. And the chamber cools down to nearly liquid nitrogen temperatures. And at that point in time, when it works its way through the activated charcoal and the molecular sieves, a great deal of it flops over from the lesser known THCs, or from the normal THC, to the More rare THCs through a kind of an isomerization.

1:18:04IndraNow I know they do isomerization at heat or using heat and temperature. However, what I found is inverse chemistry is that everything you can do with heat, you can do that good or better with cold. And so...

1:18:23DrThat's contra-thermodynamic, but okay, I'm with you. Go ahead.

1:18:27IndraWell, there's a lot of reactions that happen at extreme low temperatures.

1:18:32DrI know. So typically, what's happening there, and I don't know that this is the case, John, but I'll throw it out there. There's probably some other type of mechanism or some type of catalysis that we don't understand that's happening. Right.

1:18:48IndraI'm sure something like that's happened.

1:18:51DrIf the concentration of THCA, which is a highly crystalline molecule, is... It's high enough, THCA will crystallize out, and there's a lattice energy that's associated with that, so that's a very low energy pathway, and if, again, THCA molecules are there in enough concentration, think of rock candy, right? You've super saturated a solution, all these molecules are going to start finding each other and then crash out as a crystalline solid, and that's entropically and thermodynamically favored.

1:19:23IndraOh, listen, I've watched THC crystals through the window on my equipment forming in a pure atmosphere of gas. And you could see them, every time a bubble would burst, it would change into crystals, and the crystals would just cover the surface. And then another bubble, and then another. And so that led me to put a lot of tiny drill holes on the inside chamber, which made bubbles Uh, come much better and that would change it into almost a froth of bubbles.

1:19:57IndraThen the crystals would float on top of the bubbles and you could watch them floating and, uh,

1:20:04DrFucking chemistry is awesome, isn't it? It's fucking great.

1:20:09IndraHey, you've got to write that backwards. Write it in a mirror because I couldn't tell what the hell it was. Somebody held up a sign. But anyway, yeah, chemistry is funny. There's a lot we don't understand. But I've seen certain reactions that are normally done hot done in liquid CO2 and they went to completion quite rapidly and... Very satisfactorily. And so I know that the extreme temperatures are doing something.

1:20:40IndraI'm not versed well enough to know other than I try a lot of things. I'm probably lucky I haven't blown myself off the face of the earth by now. Mr. Bioassay.

1:20:57IndraWell, you know, I always try whatever I do and

1:21:03Etienne FontanAndrew, what's the biggest temple ball that you've made?

1:21:07IndraWell, I probably made a, for laughs, we made a five pounder once that someone wanted. But as far as quantity goes, in Switzerland I made 900 kilos of them in two days. So we had quite an operation going on there. That was a lot of temple balls. But I had a whole bunch of Thai girls. One of the guys that we were working with was married to a Thai lady, and she had 30 or 40 relatives, and she brought them all to Switzerland.

1:21:41IndraAnd we put them all to work, and they were rolling those temple balls up like nobody's business.

1:21:47SpeakerThat's awesome.

1:21:49IndraIt was fun.

1:21:51BubblemanI heard, you know, I never crossed paths with you in Switzerland, but I definitely heard rumblings.

1:21:57IndraRumblings.

1:21:58BubblemanWell, because I was everywhere in Switzerland. It's a small country. I was in the north. I was in the south. I was all around the country, and I just heard little things that, yeah, there was this big, crazy oil production going on.

1:22:14IndraThey called it Nutella. The oil that we were making there. They named it Nutella and they actually put it in old Nutella jars. When I was there in Switzerland, some judge had said that you can sell dried flower arrangements

1:22:32BubblemanAnd so they started selling... Was that like 2000, 2001, 2000?

1:22:38IndraSomewhere in there. They started selling them as dried flower arrangements. And then they sold that as a bomb of some sort.

1:22:49BubblemanRight.

1:22:51IndraThen they wrote Nutella on the jars and they were selling like hotcakes in those flower stores.

1:22:57BubblemanYeah. To give people an idea, okay, Switzerland, like on the border of France and Germany in a little town like Basel, like 40, 50 shops spring up and they're selling buds in little cases, like aromatherapeutic pillows. And even when Steve and myself would go from Lugano to some of these shops and do sales, Breeders Steve, he would literally just have like a couple of kilos in a pillowcase.

1:23:27BubblemanIt was unreal. Switzerland was unreal back then.

1:23:32IndraIt was wide open. I mean, look, once upon a time, a friend of mine named Sandro and I, he had a V12 Mercedes sedan, and we were going down the road quite fast. Cops pulled us over, right? He was probably exceeding speed limit by 100 kilometers per hour. And they looked in the car and they said something to me and I said, hey, these aren't the droids you want.

1:23:59IndraAnd the guy closed the door and got back out of the car and didn't say another word to me during the stop. I was sitting there with a quart of oil in a bag that looked like a bottle of champagne. Hoping against hope that nothing was going to happen about that, but they're very wide open there.

1:24:23BubblemanI've never been in a country in my life where the police roll up on my buddy's farm in Volhusen up in the north and it's like five football fields big. It's gigantic. He planted it with a tractor and bought his seeds in like a 50-gallon drum. He basically had the police visit him and say, listen, we're going to be back in 12 days to check on this field.

1:24:50BubblemanAnd then left. And left him a document. And we were all just sitting there like, that's amazing.

1:24:59IndraYeah, Swiss police are... I was going across the border with an ounce of hash in my pocket, and the guy patted me down. I got selected out of a line of people to get patted down. I don't know why, but anyway. Pat me down. He says, what's that in your pocket? And I said, it's a harmonica. And he pulled it out anyway and looked at it. It wasn't a harmonica case.

1:25:26IndraAnd he opened up the harmonica case, and he said, huh. He said, well, can you play this harmonica? And I said, I can with a match and a pipe. And he closed it back up and handed it to me and said, get out of here and let me go. Did you get lucky?

1:25:44SpeakerThe police also held the people I was working with in Switzerland in seven months without bail. Wow. Even committed a crime. Well, they had sold several million plants that year, but it was legal.

1:26:04BubblemanRight. That's brutal. Yeah, I heard some other nightmarish stories as well, but I'll never forget.

1:26:11SpeakerYou don't have a right to bail in Switzerland. If the state arrests you, they assume you're guilty. I thought Shanti Baba did three to five years in Switzerland.

1:26:26BubblemanI thought it was Italy, no?

1:26:28SpeakerNo, I think it was exporting to Italy, but I thought he did it in Switzerland.

1:26:32BubblemanYou'd sure want to do it in Switzerland compared to Italy.

1:26:35IndraWell, the jails in Switzerland are pretty damn comfortable. I mean, it looks more like a hotel. You got TVs in every room. There's no real bars anywhere. The guards don't have guns. Nobody's beating you.

1:26:51SpeakerYeah, there's a TV in every room, but the goddamn TV shows are in Italian.

1:26:56IndraOh, they're not all in Italian. There's two channels in Swiss. There's a lot of them. You get your choice, Italian or German or Romanish.

1:27:06SpeakerDo you know how tired I get watching Bonanza in Italian?

1:27:14DrWelcome to Spaghetti Western. Molto bene.

1:27:19IndraOscar Wright. Oscar Wright. Could have made pot legal way back when if he would have just on that show said, Here, Paul, try this!

1:27:29BubblemanThat would have been it.

1:27:30IndraThat would have been it. We would have all been smoking for years. But no, he shirked his responsibility just like Obama just is getting ready to do.

1:27:39BubblemanYeah, well, I imagine that any time they're going to actually change something major, like changing the... From Schedule 1 to any other schedule, or Decrim, or Elite, whatever it is that is the big one that everyone's waiting for, that's like a major, major thing that they're going to give to their proper candidate. They're going to have that like, that's not going to be just like, oh, this is just happening now.

1:28:08BubblemanThat'll be specifically for someone to become a part of that history and to... You mean Big Farm, right?

1:28:16IndraI mean, whoever, right?

1:28:17BubblemanWhoever holds... No, he's talking about Trump. Don't start with Trump, for God's sake. Someone bring it out, quick. Change the subject.

1:28:30Etienne FontanBall rip. There you go.

1:28:33BubblemanPotential Cannabinoid Therapy for GI Ulcers, Dr. Reyes, B-Man. Dr. Reyes, how do I pronounce that properly? I want to know. Reyes?

1:28:44Etienne FontanReyes? Marcus, I have a question for you. She's muted. Hold on. You have to unmute her.

1:28:50SpeakerMuted. Hi. Riz.

1:28:52BubblemanRiz. That's easy. I can do that.

1:28:55SpeakerEither is fine. Whatever.

1:28:57BubblemanRiz. The Riz. Dr. Riz in the house. So someone asked that question. Did you hear that question? Should I go back and read it again?

1:29:03SpeakerYeah. Repeat, please.

1:29:07BubblemanMan, it's quick. Something about ulcers. Potential therapy for GI ulcers.

1:29:12SpeakerCannabis. How would you take it? For GI ulcers, well, again, it's inflammation, damage, so cannabis would be helpful. Probably edibly, you'd want it, or in an edible form.

1:29:31Etienne FontanWould it tincture fine?

1:29:33SpeakerWell, a tincture, you might want to be careful, depending on what kind of tincture, like an alcohol tincture, the alcohol might be a bit irritating, so you might want it in something more like coconut oil or oil-based, just because, well, even coconut oil has some anti-inflammatory effects also, so that would be soothing. But even, like, If you're making blends, you could get fancy and use other herbs like chamomile, calendula, things that also have anti-inflammatory and soothing activities, so you could infuse all of those things into your coconut oil blend and take that edibly.

1:30:10SpeakerMost people think like CBD is the main compound that has all the anti-inflammatory activity, but THC also has a lot of anti-inflammatory activity and is good for mucosal healing. So usually you would want to do a blend that has both compounds because they also work synergistically together. And then there's also some interesting evidence about, like, obviously you guys like talking about terpenoids and things like that, but with limonene.

1:30:37SpeakerSo there's some animal studies, still preliminary work, where they have these models of colitis and gastric damage, and they show that by giving the mice limonene orally in a pill, it can help also with the inflammation and damage and ulceration. But... You want to be really careful with limonene because although it's a safer solvent for other things, it still can be dangerous in large amounts, so definitely don't just start drinking limonene or anything like that.

1:31:10SpeakerIf you're going to use a compound like that, you want to make sure it's diluted properly and in the proper form. When I say limonene has those types of effects... Just be careful. Don't go and drink limonene. That's bad.

1:31:25IndraDon't you think that the limonene in the THC oil is balanced with the rest of the material that's in there so that it provides the right kind of intake for the body? So when you start purifying things out, they start becoming more or less a little better and possibly dangerous.

1:31:45SpeakerYes, exactly. It can be dangerous in isolated forms, so it is better to get it in a whole plant type form. If you wanted higher limonene than you were getting just from the cannabis, I mean, choose a cannabis strain with high limonene, but you could also get it from something like orange peel. That's one of the highest sources of limonene, but exactly what you said, when you isolate compounds, Thank you for joining us today.

1:32:27DrWell, the other thing in particular with limonene is limonene is not oxidatively stable and will start forming peroxides just on standing and it's the hydroperoxides that are often there in very, very small concentration that cause irritation dermatitis that's associated with limonene. And so, yes. So, again, I think, Indra, what you're kind of saying is that when you purify and you get a sole compound by itself from a mixture, it wants to be back in a mixture.

1:32:57DrWell, again, chemistry is going to happen because when you shine light and when you expose air, these things all have double bonds and they like to rearrange. And sometimes they react with oxygen and adventitious oxygen will make hydroperoxides, which will start to do further chemistry.

1:33:12SpeakerExactly. And so most people hear about that in terms of like essential oils like lavender. There's issues with some people think like, oh, it can get oxidized when it's around too much air. But again, like it's the whole plant is more stable, but something like linalool, which is also found in cannabis, can also be dangerous in its single form because it can cause oxidative damage. So again, it's better to have these compounds together in their whole plant forms.

1:33:42BubblemanSo when we say whole plants... Oh, go ahead, Sam.

1:33:44SpeakerI was going to say, have you tried the terpenes by themselves by vaporization or whatever? I haven't. No, I'm not... I haven't personally, but the way I normally consume my terpenoids is through essential oil inhalation, so I also make perfumes and a lot of different compounds, so I just like smelling them. Are those terpenes extracted from cannabis or other sources? I'm not currently using terpenoids extracted through cannabis, although I very much want to incorporate that into my perfumes.

1:34:26SpeakerCurrently I'm just using really high grade CO2 extracted plant oils, also steam distilled plant oils. I focus on using all organic

1:34:40SpeakerI'm a geek with essential oils, so I really like trying rare plants and working with things that aren't necessarily available everywhere. For something like neroli blossom, have you guys smelled neroli blossom? Neroladol is actually found in cannabis, so it has that nice floral, beautiful aroma. I've had it pure. Yeah, and so I've only smelt it and experienced it through the whole plant essential oil, so I haven't smelt it individually.

1:35:19SpeakerIt's very woody.

1:35:20DrI have. It's very woody. It smells a little reminiscent of maybe like cedar oil, but I think it smells almost like slightly pungent but sweet. It smells citrusy. Yeah. Okay.

1:35:35SpeakerYeah, but I would like to smell it. Well, it's, it's the way, like, it has like a citrus floral aroma.

1:35:42DrThere's two Nero Lidol. So there's Nero Lidol 1 and there's Nero Lidol 2. They might have very, very different. That's what you call, right? I mean, they're 50 carbon.

1:35:51IndraSo, on the essential oils, I, my company worked for Roberti Grass France for 15 years, and I have a freezer with over 2,000 Rare flower and plant oils that I took as archival things to store from all the extractions they gave us. And between them and Furmanish over many years they gave us many strange things. Woods Hole Institute sent me once a container full of sponges that they wanted me to extract because From this container of sponges to the methods they were using, they obtained two tablespoons of material.

1:36:35IndraAnd they sent it to us and we sent them back over a quart of material that we obtained using the patented method that we use. But I have several thousand flowers and I know I have some. They gave me some very rare flowers. They gave me some tiny, tiny flowers in a jar, and they said that the oil from it, which they only expected about 10 or 12 cc's, was $10,000 a cc.

1:37:05SpeakerYeah, they get crazy expensive.

1:37:08IndraIt had the most amazing smell. Look, once we extracted 50 gallons of lavender oil for them, And when we opened the thing, we didn't have masks on or anything. And within a few moments, my son and I were so silly we were laughing. And we didn't know what we were even laughing about. We ran outside and put masks on, but it took us a half hour to stop laughing.

1:37:34IndraAnd all the while we were outside trying to catch our breath, all the mice in the building ran out.

1:37:42IndraI don't know if they were laughing, but they all bailed out.

1:37:48DrIt's an ice repellent.

1:37:50IndraWell, I don't think it was lack of oxygen.

1:37:55DrIt's an ice repellent now. Maybe it's a repellent of some sort, right?

1:37:59SpeakerWell, like there are some essential oils that do have pest repellents properly. And I think lavender would also. And I know whenever... People always say to spray peppermint essential oil for mice, but I'm guessing it's also because they have such a sensitive sense of smell that anything like that is just sensory overload.

1:38:21DrDr. We take a couple flakes of red pepper or cayenne pepper, put it in your peppermint oil, and that is a great rodent deterrent. So the capsaicin, I think, works on some of the same receptors and is very, very effective at very low concentrations.

1:38:37IndraThat sounds like it might be tasty on seafood.

1:38:43SpeakerIt doesn't get rid of Thai mice.

1:38:45BubblemanThey like it. Hey, I'll say this much. I was... Breaking down about 50 ml's of the pure terpenes from Blue River with my buddy in the city in Vancouver. And he's got a chameleon. And we broke all these terpenes down. And you feel pretty intense afterwards if you're not wearing a little mask or whatnot, dealing with that many terps. And afterwards I looked up and I was like, dude, your chameleon looks like it's throwing up or something.

1:39:12BubblemanAnd man, his chameleon was... Definitely feeling the effects of terpene exposure, being such a small little animal. He was fine in the end, but I noticed it was either a very strange coincidence or the intensity of the terpenes got him.

1:39:30IndraDid he ask for more later?

1:39:33BubblemanHe was definitely jonesing for more later. Hey, 879 people watching Hash Church Live right now. Thank you guys for bringing the conversation seriously today. It's been an amazing episode literally since 9 o'clock. We're almost two hours in. I definitely wanted to welcome Todd McCormick into the room. He showed up a little later than usual, but hey, we're just happy to have you here, buddy. I hope you've been enjoying the conversation.

1:40:01BubblemanIt's been good. I've been enjoying the science. Both of these papers are quite incredible. If you can actually read them and understand what they're saying that Natasha brought up earlier, the John McPartland and Jeffrey Guy paper. I'm sure you've read both of these papers. Hey, Sam, the care and feeding of the endocannabinoid system. This one here. Yes. And then Ethan Russo's.

1:40:30Etienne FontanTodd and I got to see Ethan Russo speak a couple weeks ago at the Terp Festival up in Mendocino County, so that was cool. There was a lot of... Terps, Terps, and more Terps.

1:40:45BubblemanHey, Tony.

1:40:48IndraTony?

1:40:50BubblemanHe's muted.

1:40:51IndraHe's muted. Tony, did that fill your satisfaction for wanting to know about that?

1:40:59SpeakerThe tempo balls?

1:41:00IndraYes.

1:41:01SpeakerI actually wrote everything down that you said and already was going to try it just to try to duplicate it and see if I could make it with a rosin and everything. I could also try it with a really clean

1:41:23SpeakerTHC distillate, I guess, but I'm going to try it with, I'm going to try it with some just straight hash oil and, you know, really, really fine, like five star or something, or six star, something really good.

1:41:39IndraOkay, well, if you've got any further questions.

1:41:42SpeakerWell, I think, yeah, there was a, most of the people, like, were on Instagram and out there in the world were asking, were excited about it, so I just was pushing along the conversation to see what, What you would say? I found it fascinating. I'm going to try it out and see what happens.

1:41:58IndraListen, anybody who tries it is never going to forget it and they're going to use it for the rest of your life. I mean, it literally, once you get a couple of quarts of the liquid nitrogen and the trichromes and the oil together, it's five minutes later, you're done and you leave it on the porch for an hour. And we've had it tested. I don't know how many times.

1:42:19IndraEverybody and their brother wanted to test it. And several people took it to a testing laboratory that subjected it to NMR, nuclear magnetic resonance, and always as pure as the driven snow and very, very potent. So it's all, of course, shit in, shit out. If you put in the good stuff, you're going to get the good stuff back out.

1:42:46Etienne FontanWhat's the highest THC content that you've had tested out at?

1:42:50IndraThe highest that we ever tested on it was 88 for the hash. The oil separately from that was higher. It was five or six points higher. And the lowest? And the lowest, 62. It's very plant dependent.

1:43:11DrTHCA, right? Not THC.

1:43:14IndraNo, no, THCA. But what I'm talking about is the yield is plant dependent. You know, some strains will give you a huge yield and other strains just don't have it. So it depends. Some strains, the better the strain you use, the more potent the strain you use, the better the results on the other end. However, now having said that, you can take some crap Mexican bud and extract it using the butane method if you do it right and you get some pretty reasonable oil.

1:43:50IndraThat's because some of it changes over to the higher oil. I mean, I've even put Kansas ditchweed in a chamber and extracted it just to see, you know, what the results would be because in Kansas, you can drive... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:44:34SpeakerI unfortunately grew up in Kansas, so I know about Kansas.

1:44:36IndraOh, so you know.

1:44:40BubblemanThe love of Kansas is strong in Tony.

1:44:44Etienne FontanYeah, I saw it in Kansas and even tried to make oil out of it in South Dakota. Yeah, it's awful.

1:44:51IndraYeah, bad stuff. Actually, it's very, very high in CBD content. And if you could, in Kansas, harvest it and extract it, it would be like a free load of CBD. But in Kansas, they're so fucking backward. You know, they're one seed, and they want to put you in jail.

1:45:12Etienne FontanYeah, that state is no bueno for the laws. Yeah.

1:45:17IndraWell, they're just 100 years back. It's run by all Republicans. You know, they don't have enough teachers in school anymore. They don't have school lunches. The state's gone to hell in a handbasket. It's because the governor's GOP and he tried a theory and canceled out a lot of the state's revenue and now the people there are starving and getting fucked over daily and they still can't get any pot to smoke.

1:45:45IndraWhat a bitch.

1:45:46BubblemanWhile being surrounded by it.

1:45:49IndraAnd everywhere. But if you get caught stopping and going off the road to look at it, you will go to jail.

1:46:00SpeakerThey've got to keep it there to keep the jobs of the DEA safe because I've read, and I just put the link in according to Normal, they said 98% of all domestically eradicated marijuana is actually ditch weed. Yeah. 223 million plants, 219 million of them in 2005 were just feral hemp. Jesus.

1:46:21IndraThe DEA, you got to understand where it came from. Those guys were the revenuers when alcohol was under siege and it was illegal in the country. Those guys went around looking for stills and busting up alcohol and that's where their job Thank you for watching.

1:47:00IndraThey don't want, of course, they don't want to lose their jobs, but do we really need the DEA anymore? I mean, we have the FDA, and it's a matter of regulation rather than enforcement, at least it looks that way from my viewpoint.

1:47:12SpeakerWell, you know, it's a real interesting comparison if you compare the ATF, which went leaderless for many, many years, and the DEA, which has been overly funded and overly aggressive, and it's kind of funny. I mean, it's not funny, but looking at it from a political perspective, it's ironic when

1:47:30IndraYou mean suspicious.

1:47:32SpeakerOh, yeah, well, of course. I mean, the marijuana groups don't have an NRA that can, you know, lobby to keep the organization that regulates them unorganized and... You know, undermanned, so to speak, like the ATF, but the DEA, you know, tons of money to run around and eradicate hemp growing on the side of the Kansas Highway.

1:47:53Etienne FontanIt started off with cannabis and then it became, it created cocaine, which was an undercurrent to the drug war, which then became crack, which became... Thank you for watching.

1:48:22Etienne FontanSo what exactly has the DEA done if they start off with cannabis and it's all these other things of only creating stronger and more deadlier substitutes that society has absorbed has got to be one of the worst crimes permitted against humanity.

1:48:39IndraHey, Natasha, you are busy making different things with your essential oils and you're talking about terpenes and... And all the different things you might be doing with it. I just wanted to mention to you that that method that I just described for making hash is also a very, very powerful method, for instance, to shake sage plants or rub sage plants off. Let's extract the rest of the sage plant, put them both in the nitrogen, and it makes this beautiful cake of sage that has the oil and all the goodies in it, and it can be made into pretty much, you can use that formula with a whole bunch of different organic things and oils that you can mix together and make the most potent, and they will be so fresh because after it's been in the nitrogen, once in Switzerland, a guy brought me a couple hundred pounds of We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

1:49:38IndraWe're going to talk about what we're going to talk about today.

1:49:56IndraSo there's a lot of things you can do with organic stuff that might be helpful to you using that nitrogen base. That's all I wanted to say. Sorry.

1:50:06BubblemanNo, that's cool. It's always good to learn little gems, especially for, I mean, any time doing any type of essential oil extraction.

1:50:16SpeakerIt might clean up pissy hash, but will it clean up shitty hash?

1:50:23IndraProbably.

1:50:25SpeakerI knew you were going to say something. You're just waiting.

1:50:30IndraIt probably, you know when you put certain things in stuff that's very cold, it will definitely fractionate out. You'll see the lighter stuff at the top and the heavier stuff at the bottom. So if your shit's floating, maybe that'll work.

1:50:47SpeakerI just can't believe you cleaned up half of my shit. By shitty hash, I didn't really mean hash with shit in it. I meant very low quality. We got the joke.

1:51:01IndraWe got it, yeah. But no, really, it cleaned up the trichromes so it didn't smell like piss anymore. And if you don't believe it, find some, some crappy ones maybe you've got, piss in them for a month or so, let it dry out, and then toss it in with the nitrogen and then get back to me.

1:51:20SpeakerI'm doing it right now while I talk.

1:51:23IndraAll right. So you'll be getting back to me with, gee, John, that fucking worked like nobody's business, man. I've done it, and so I know. I mean, I did it on several occasions with different things.

1:51:37BubblemanHey, John, have you ever done it with Labrador?

1:51:40IndraWith what?

1:51:41BubblemanWith Labrador.

1:51:43IndraLabrador?

1:51:44BubblemanYeah, that's like a Cheech and Chong joke, remember? Oh, yeah, yeah.

1:51:47IndraSo that's the Labrador, yeah. That's a really good joke. Good thing we don't step in it.

1:51:54DrWell, this beckons the question, can you actually use urine to extract and then use this method to de-urinate your extract, right?

1:52:02Etienne FontanHey, I've heard of pissing excellence, but this is going too far.

1:52:06IndraNo, no, it was just a matter of the mice pissing. I don't think urine is helpful in any way. I mean, I know in the olden days when they would have mushroom parties, the elite would go outside to piss and the poor people would wait to drink it so they could get high too. Other than that, I know of no known use for urine. Maybe curing leather?

1:52:28SpeakerActually, urine is part of Ayurvedic medicine. Well, it is... What would happen if there was no urine, though? Like, have you cleaned up... Can you clean up farmer's grade, Keith, without urine in it, just with liquid nitrogen and stuff floats to the top? Or what are you talking about here?

1:52:48IndraNo, no. The nitrogen was used in that circumstance to see if it would eliminate the odor of the mice. The other thing which you have the instructions for is the organic method for combining, like, Sage Nodules and Sage Oil or whatever you might have to change into a bar of something else. The thing of it is, because it adds, I think it adds an oxygen atom or... No, be careful, no adding oxygen atoms.

1:53:25IndraWell, it's liquid nitrogen.

1:53:27DrYeah, liquid nitrogen. Okay, so all that is is just a cryogenic fluid, and you're just cooling that stuff down just really cold. There's no chemistry. There's no bonds being made or broken here.

1:53:39IndraOkay, so when you cool it down, something's happening to the urine's milk because it must go off with the nitrogen as it evaporates.

1:53:49DrRight, John. That's what I believe. I believe what happens is they're typically like sulfur-containing compounds, and those sulfur-containing compounds are usually there in very, very small quantities, but our noses are trained to smell these at very, very Thank you for joining us.

1:54:25DrThank you for joining us today.

1:54:46IndraIt's good for crushing up a lot of pot in a very short period of time. You can take a 55 gallon drum, pour in about half a gallon or three-fourths of a gallon of nitrogen, take a 2x4 and hit it 10 or 12 times and the whole thing's changed to powder.

1:55:00DrRight, right. So in the chemical industry, that's called cryo-milling, and typically what happens, even in the mint industry, is they actually freeze the material in liquid nitrogen and just grind it at such a low temperature where, yeah, it becomes a fine powder. Right, exactly.

1:55:18IndraEasily, too, because everything is frozen solid, and so it's easy to reduce it by just grinding it.

1:55:24DrRight, that's how Wrigley's used to grind their... They used to grind their mint before making oil. Now, they used to use propane, which is very interesting. The Wrigleys have been extracting mint for Kuhn's age now. I think their technology goes back to the 30s or 40s, I think, John. But it's interesting because that's kind of like, again, predating everybody, right?

1:55:53IndraYeah, I wasn't alive until 46.

1:55:56DrYeah, but I'm just saying in terms of your patent, in terms of using something like a volatile alkane gas, whether it's propane or butane or whatever, just passing a gas through a plant material to absorb the extractable material. So the Wrigley's... We practiced that a long time ago.

1:56:15IndraWell, you might notice in the patent that I cover every conceivable gas, but the other thing to notice in the patent that is the reason it was updated from what Wrigley's doing, and in fact Wrigley's trying now to obtain a license through our licensing party, is that we have both method and apparatus.

1:56:39BubblemanRight. That's a good one. Reinhart also has both method and apparatus for his water extraction patent.

1:56:46IndraYeah. If you have the pair of those together, it's about complete.

1:56:52DrWell, typically, I mean, a good attorney will see that, that you need to grab both of those. I mean, you can't always grab an apparatus on a method, but. If you can, yeah, absolutely. Great.

1:57:02IndraThat's awesome. Well, then, besides that, there are several spring-off patents from the apparatus. For instance, the tuning fork switch and other things like that. Those were separate from it because when I originally gave it to the patent attorney and he read it and he got back to me and he says, well, he says, you know, you've got a lot more than one patent here. We need to separate it out.

1:57:27DrJohn, I'm curious on why your attorney didn't go after compositional claims around something like the composition of cannabis, oil, butane extract. If you define that in your specification and just before that point where the extract has lost any of its butane, While it still contains butane and you still have the essential oil of cannabis, that in and of itself is a novel composition that I think you could have claimed.

1:57:59IndraWell, I think that these guys who made the claims took a lot of things into consideration. They cost an arm and a leg. I saw their I did ask them about that and they said that the way they worded the patent

1:58:38IndraWould cover it without specifying it and limiting it.

1:58:44DrWell, a compositional claim is like the top of the patent pyramid. If you own the composition of matter, no matter what device, no matter what process, no matter what you do to make it, if you own that composition of matter, bam, you own everything. I mean, I would have, like if you would have I'd be consulting with you back then. I would have asked you to put in a compositional claim of butane cannabis extract as a definable material, and that way anyone who processes anything through cannabis and butane, you have it claimed in your patent.

1:59:21IndraOkay, write it up for me and file it.

1:59:23DrIt's too late now, man. I mean, it's open art. It's obvious, and you're When I say obvious, that's in no way insulting. When I say obvious, that means that it's to one suitably skilled in the art, this is lawyerese here, that someone would be able to reproduce that invention so it becomes not an inventive step anymore. Like we talked about that aha moment that you experienced when you first did your PVC experiment, and that's the real charge you get about being I think one of the best things about being an inventor and getting patents is when you know you've done something and that eureka moment like when Edison first found the tungsten filament, when they first got the human genome, that first time you ever do something is just Such a rush and such a charge as an inventor.

2:00:15DrKeeps you coming back for more.

2:00:17IndraI do have another patent which might fill in where you think I left off here. And that is kind of a compositional patent. It's where I make a claim that... I've combined two or more organic substances like flowers or whatever in the chamber at the same time. And when I extract it, sometimes in addition to those compounds, a third compound is produced and comes out of there.

2:00:45IndraAnd I claim patent on that because... Some of the things, I did a lot of study before I decided to file that one.

2:00:55DrYeah, that's a key element of an invention is when you do something and you find an unexpected result, like you expected you're combining this flower with this flower, you expect to get a very floral thing, and you get something very lemony, citrusy. You couldn't have predicted that result until you did the experiment. That's an invention.

2:01:15IndraExactly. And that patent is in now and has been with them for about a fucking year waiting for somebody there to make some kind of decision. But they tell me that the reason that they're lagging on it, they're not actually dragging their feet, but they say that it has a lot of implications and they're searching everywhere to try to Basically, the Swiss lawyer tells me it'll all be good because once they decide, it'll be really a landmark kind of thing and it'll be valuable because of that decision.

2:01:52IndraSo, I am working on that. I still didn't specify THC and CBD because they both come from the same plant.

2:02:02SpeakerHowever... Yeah, what are these patents? I'm sorry, because some of the... What are the patents that you're referring to? Because Mark seems to be pretty familiar with them, but for the rest of us out there, is it, like, accessible, easily accessible online?

2:02:17IndraNo, some of it hasn't been released yet, and it's not public yet, and it won't be for a while. But I'm giving you kind of the overlook...

2:02:30IndraThis is what it will be. This is what's going on with it. I can't say a lot about it because the people who watch me, and now because there's other investors and stuff in the company, they are all the time very much keeping an eye on what I do and say they don't want me to divulge anything that they think is Somehow they think it belongs to the company or I don't know how to explain it.

2:03:05IndraI have to be careful now what I say. So I can say that I know this patent is coming because it's already in that process and I'm just waiting to see what the results are on it. There's a lot of big companies who will be very concerned about that patent. And Big Farm definitely is going to be concerned about it. A lot of the claims that I make, and I make many, many, many, many claims in it, some of the claims I make are Just by combining these various organic starting points in a pipe like you're talking about and extracting them is actually creating some material that are considered drugs, are usable as drugs.

2:04:00IndraThere's a lot of stuff going on about it. It was one of those things that I didn't think it was going to be a big deal. I thought, well, great. We put sage and we put clover in and we get this great smelling oil, right? And instead, something else happened. So that's why I'm ending up with a patent for it.

2:04:22DrWell, wait till we start hydrogenating oils in there.

2:04:26IndraWell, I delve into that in it too. I talk about that because, yeah, hydrogenation is a very interesting thing. I'm not the chemist, but I still know a little bit about it. I know more practical end of it, you know. If I want to hydrogenate something, I know how to go about it.

2:04:49IndraBut I'm not, you know, I don't have the same mind for it that you have. You've studied it and you know it in great detail.

2:04:58DrYeah, well, we started by taking catmint oil. Catmint oil in and of itself, I think we've talked about this before, is enriched with a monoterpenoid called nipetalactone. And in and of itself, it's a good insect repellent, but it also elicits immediate skin sensitization response. It showed a positive response. Thank you for joining us.

2:05:29DrWe actually had to file what's called an 80 reportable letter to the EPA, which will basically preclude anybody from ever registering cat mint oil as a topically applied product for humans. But when you take the oil, John, and you hydrogenate it, you improve not only the essence of the oil and make it very lemony, minty, with kind of just a hint of licorice, but more important, the skin sensitization goes away.

2:05:58DrAnd so unlike DEET, which you can only apply a couple times a day, we can reapply several times this insect repellent. And that gets us into the sunscreen market where you can't do that with DEET right now. So it's really, it's a great plant-derived insect repellent that hopefully will be on the market real soon.

2:06:19IndraWell, I think the people that are interested in this patent, this latest patent, are the people who are looking into doing research with that kind of stuff. And I just happened to beat them to the patent office with this particular method. Same in the first place when I originally wrote the patent on the oil extraction. I just happened to be the first guy in line with it.

2:06:41IndraAnd I think it'll be used to look for things. I mean, I've done probably 30 such extractions, and in those 30, every single time so far, I've been surprised by combining various organic things together and extracting it for the oil. Every single time, it's been a complete surprise. I keep thinking I'm going to know in advance what the outcome is going to be, and I haven't

2:07:09DrEach one of those surprises is an invention, and there's a new surprise around every corner. It's so cool. It's great, isn't it? It keeps you coming back for more.

2:07:17SpeakerMark, when you hydrogenated the catnip oil, the oil itself attracted cats, yes?

2:07:28DrYeah, the oil itself attracted cats, and it's unclear whether hydrogenation really attenuates that activity. That's what I wanted to ask you. Yeah, we don't know about that. My cat was watching the show, and he told me to ask. Well, the cat in the hat, right? Well, we think we could formulate that out. They put all kinds of floral fragrances in most of these consumer products, and so, They're hoping that they could formulate that out because obviously if you're wanting to repel mosquitoes and protect yourself from Zika virus, you don't want to attract leopards and feral cats and bobcats.

2:08:12IndraIt would be a lot of fun to spray that on police cars though, wouldn't it?

2:08:20BubblemanI'll tell you, Paul Stamets has done some incredible work with these different mushrooms and alkaloids that he's found in mushrooms that are unbelievable for insect repellents. And he discovered it totally by accident, of course, this particular mushroom growing on his property. But yeah, it's like it attracts these carpenter ants. They eat it. They go back. They infest the queen. And then they all just end up passing away from the poison in the mushroom much later on.

2:08:47BubblemanBut they're attracted to it. What is the evolutionary pressure that would put this terpenoid mix in these plants?

2:08:54DrWhy would this plant evolve with something that repels insects?

2:09:13DrDr. I mean it's just interesting to think why some of these molecules evolve in the plants and especially cannabinoids and cannabis. I mean as humans co-evolved with cannabis,

2:09:39DrHow much did we really influence what was actually going on in the plant? Interesting, for sure.

2:09:47BubblemanI wanted to ask Dr. Natasha about one of the points that she was willing to speak about. It was the last point on your list, actually. It was Dr. Ethan Russo's theory of clinical endocannabinoid deficiency. Do you have a little bit of conversation in you about that topic?

2:10:05SpeakerYeah. So yeah, this was a theory that Ethan proposed back in 2006, and he even hinted at it a few years before that. And what he proposes is similar to conditions where... Thank you for joining us.

2:10:54SpeakerYeah, migraine. I can't remember the specific form of headache that they... I think it might just be all headache syndromes that are non-responsive to traditional therapies, but that are responsive to cannabis. So the point that I know the most about is irritable bowel syndrome, or IBS, and this is a gut condition that affects many people. Many people probably have it and just aren't diagnosed with anything because it's a very hard condition to get diagnosed.

2:11:20DrNatasha, can I ask you just to interject for something? Could you distinguish that from IBD? I know that they're related, and I often get questions that people ask me all the time. Can you answer those questions for the audience, IBD versus IBS?

2:11:34SpeakerYes, so those are very different conditions. Thank you for bringing that up. So irritable bowel syndrome, IBS, that's the condition I just brought up. So that is more to do with... You have issues with unexplained diarrhea, constipation, stomach pain, and it's a complicated condition, but also stress plays a big role. So there's a big role of mind-gut connection. So the symptom is very aggregated under conditions of stress.

2:12:04SpeakerSo this is different than inflammatory bowel disease. This is IBD. So this includes Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis. So this condition is more severe than IBS. So there's a genetic predisposition and these patients basically develop ulcers. So open sores anywhere from their mouth to their anus. So all along the gastrointestinal tract. So the difference between Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis is ulcerative colitis affects more the large colon, whereas Crohn's disease affects more the small intestine.

2:12:45SpeakerSo this is a big spectrum of diseases. There's also a form called indeterminate colitis where it doesn't really fit into either of these set terms, but the patients are still getting... Lots of symptoms. So the symptoms of Crohn's and Colitis, a classic one is bloody diarrhea. So if there's blood in your stool, you most likely have an inflammatory condition or you might be suffering from an infection.

2:13:11SpeakerBut usually with irritable bowel syndrome, so IBS, you wouldn't have blood in the stool. That's not to say that Thank you for joining us.

2:13:39SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:14:07SpeakerAnd basically they're bedridden. And you go through crazy periods of just... Like constantly having to go to the washroom. Very, very painful. So for these patients, having access to cannabis can literally mean that they have a life. Like they can leave their house because one of the major things that cannabis does for these patients is it helps suppress inflammation and it helps suppress the diarrhea response. So a lot of these patients can now leave their house.

2:14:37SpeakerAnd that's another reason why it's helpful for IBS because it helps with the diarrhea. So now that the major thing between these two conditions I'd say is inflammation. So Crohn's and Colitis, massive inflammation. IBS is considered more of a functional disorder. So there's actually issues with the function of the gut. So there may be spasticity. It may not be emptying properly, so some of the patients have more of a diarrhea dominant syndrome where they suffer from massive diarrhea, whereas other patients have more of a constipation type phenotype where they can't go to the washroom.

2:15:12SpeakerSo some of these people won't, like, they'll go to the bathroom maybe once a week. That's a good bowel movement. Like, that's insane. People should be going to the bathroom at least once a day. So yeah, so cannabis also can help not only with diarrhea, but can also help stimulate the urge to go. And it's interesting because even with cannabis seeds, so hemp seeds, Thank you for joining us.

2:16:05SpeakerThank you for joining us.

2:16:26SpeakerA big common drug is anti-TNF blockers. So these drugs are also common in patients with multiple sclerosis and even like patients with auto-inflammatory conditions that, again, are unresponsive to other conditions, may be responsive to anti-TNF blockers. But these things also have all these other symptoms. When we look at research that's actually been done on patients with Crohn's and Colitis, the patients that they do the research on, these are the patients that haven't responded to any of the therapies.

2:16:56SpeakerSo then they're like, alright, you don't respond to anything. Now we'll try cannabis, which is insane. So one clinical trial has been done with Crohn's and Colitis, and this is by Dr. Naftali's group in Israel. So In this study they looked at patients with Crohn's disease and they gave them smoked cannabis and it was a placebo controlled trial so some patients had smoked cannabis and the other group had smoked cannabis with the THC removed so they developed some protocol where they soaked the cannabis and removed the THC so it was actually a properly placebo controlled trial which is really important for these studies.

2:17:37SpeakerAnd so these patients smoked the cannabis and they found it improved many of their symptoms, including they had less diarrhea, they had better quality of life because they could leave their house, their ability to work improved. So when we look at diseases, usually we're looking for markers of inflammation and pain, but it's important to also look at quality of life measures and access to just Thank you for joining us.

2:18:30Speakeris because when we look at the genetic underlying genetic factors there's been some studies showing that patients with irritable bowel syndrome may have changes in their CB1 receptors so they may be not responding to their endocannabinoids as well so like anandamide that's one of the Thank you. Thank you.

2:19:15SpeakerPieces of evidence. There's also... If you look at Ethan Russo's new paper, he just released a new review paper about the clinical endocannabinoid deficiency. So if you want a good review, check out that paper. And he goes into really good detail about headaches. So if you want more info on headaches and also fibromyalgia, the review paper goes into a lot of detail. And it gets really geeky about...

2:19:46SpeakerBuilding the case for why these conditions actually should be seriously considered as basically an endocannabinoid deficiency and should be treated as such. But again, more research still needs to be done.

2:20:04IndraYou mentioned these people were smoking it in that study. And for many years now, I've We've been giving that particular hash to people with Crohn's disease. And all I ever hear from them is, thank God, please don't go away. I need this. It saved me. I can live again with it. And they eat it. They don't smoke it. They just literally eat it. They've got their dose worked out now, how much they eat every day.

2:20:34IndraAnd they just live a completely normal life by eating it. So that's not an official study, but I could tell you it involved a few thousand people so far.

2:20:47SpeakerWell, I would like to hear more about that because that's really where I'm interested in going with the research is exactly like you say, patients are eating it. And so we need research looking at how patients are actually using it. And smoking, I'm happy this study exists, but We need more evidence. And even there's patients who use it interactively for ulcerative colitis and find that it's fabulous.

2:21:10SpeakerAnd topically also. So patients who have stomach aches, they can put cannabis balms topically and they find that that also helps with the cramping. So it's great if patients have access to using it in a number of different ways.

2:21:24IndraWell, if you take the THC oil and hit it with an oxidizer, It'll change into something that if you put in a capsule and stick in your behind will give you instantaneous, all those other effects plus very, very high because your colon will be able to absorb it that way. But you can't just stick the regular stuff in there. It's not going to work that way. But you know, not too far off the point, when I make it, it's actually dihydro and it's not been heated yet.

2:21:58IndraAnd so with that material, you can take a big dose of it and you will not get high, but you do get all the other effects from it by eating it. Once again, I'm big into the eating it these days because I think your body is better equipped to deal with it When you eat it rather than smoking it. Smoking it, to me, at this point in time, 2020 high vision, it does have a lot of good effects, but nowhere near the amount of good effects that come from ingesting it.

2:22:31SpeakerThe only problem with some of these patients, so I agree with you, in most cases eating would be a better way to do it, but with some of these patients they have such severe gastrointestinal damage that they can't even properly absorb things or metabolize things, so who knows, their endocannabinoid system could also be damaged, so if they're not eating things, I think they would need a variety of different forms because Thank you so much for joining us.

2:23:18SpeakerI agree. I just, I came to the conclusion that eating it so far was one of the most efficacious ways besides rubbing it on if you've got a properly prepared cream.

2:23:39IndraBut, yeah, I've tried some of the very potent CBD oil in a cream, and I was hit in the knees by a cart when I was young, and hyperextended both my knees out backwards. One of them, I let them trim the crucial ligament. What a fool I was. The other one, I said, no, I'll wait and see how this one is. Now, the other one's the strongest leg, and the one they fixed is the weakest leg.

2:24:03IndraAnd so, you know, I started... Trying to comb through myth and wives tales that sometimes tell people who do that kind of work around whether you like it or not. And sometimes it affects them. I mean, I have talked to other physicians who believe in some of this other stuff. Like, you know, Western medicine has its own faults. Thank you for joining us.

2:24:45IndraHas something to do with recovering your health. And you can do a lot of other things, but these plants will rebuild your body if you allow them and if you eat the right ones. And I'm starting to be a fan of making a Laquado with a big giant fresh bud. You know, put it in a blender, pour it in a little milk and cream, a little sugar, blend it up and drink the damn thing.

2:25:11IndraIt has made huge changes in my digestion. You know, I think it... Yeah, he's drinking. There you go. I'm 100% with you, man. Drinking it is the path. I think probably the cavemen were probably eating it for food because of the seeds, and someone tossed some in a fire, and they smelled it, and it's like, wow, it smells good. Or they were in a confined space in a cave and got high, and mankind's been getting high ever since.

2:25:43IndraJust burn this stuff at the back of the cave, please.

2:25:46BubblemanWell, when I first met Dr. William Courtney, I asked him, what do you think the best way to just get cannabinoids into the body? And he was just like, eat raw bud. Yeah, I'm a believer. All right. There it is. It's peppery.

2:26:03SpeakerHow many other people suffer from eating non-granular food? Thank you for joining us.

2:26:33IndraThose are some good friends who would tell you your farts smell like pot.

2:26:39SpeakerNo, no. It wasn't farts. It was burps.

2:26:42DrIt was burps.

2:26:43SpeakerAnd that's terpenes. Terpenes are the things that smell, right? Terp burps. Absolutely. They were terpy burps, exactly. Hashtag. I think they're generated by the non-glycerin, which irritated my stomach and made me burp. I don't know. I'm guessing.

2:27:01BubblemanSomeone was asking if Sam was auto-tuned. That's awesome. I had it coming through kind of ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah.

2:27:08SpeakerBut hopefully the rest of you did that fine.

2:27:11BubblemanIt was trippy. It was actually pretty trippy.

2:27:15Etienne FontanYes, activation complete.

2:27:18BubblemanQuite a great conversation going on today in Hash Church. Much appreciation from the chatters, the people that are in the YouTube chat right now. 813 people in the room checking it out. It's good. Very good.

2:27:34IndraWell, I'm glad. Maybe that'll multiply out to tens of thousands.

2:27:39BubblemanWell, it usually hits 10,000 after a week, and only a few episodes have gone into the 30s and the 40s, but that's tens of thousands. When I think about driving by the stadium in Vancouver and I think, man, like, that's how many people can watch an episode of Hash Shirts, I think. That's just amazing that YouTube and web cameras and all this technology exists. That we're at a point in time, and I 100% believe that in the sharing in this sort of radical openness forum, it does really help us move forward quicker in our knowledge and in our learning.

2:28:15BubblemanAnd I've had countless people tell me that through emails, which I'm sure the rest of the panelists, the regulars probably get these emails as well, of how much these shows inspire And help people and it's great because we're all just here sharing our passions and the knowledge that we know and you know I looked at the room at one point and I saw incredible breeders and growers.

2:28:39BubblemanI saw amazing processors of dry sift, of oils, of rosin, of bubble hash. I saw owners of dispensaries. I saw cannabis activists. I saw PhD chemists. Different PhDs studying all these different effects and specializing in these things all coming together and even Sabo was in the room with, you know, he's coming from the standpoint of like, okay, if we know that these cannabinoids affect us differently as do these terpenes and we all have a little bit different ways of intaking them, which Natasha was talking a little bit about the spits and how you can do your DNA and find out little things and maybe even big things.

2:29:18BubblemanIt also becomes important how we decide to Uh, inhale or smoke those particular cannabinoids because I for one can tell you that hitting it off of titanium or quartz or sapphire or ceramic, uh, silicone carbide, they all have somewhat of a different flavor and some of them in particular create what I call sort of a preservation of the profile or a preservation of the terpenes at least, the ones that I can taste.

2:29:49BubblemanAnd I'm thinking that that also has an important part. All these little pieces of this incredible puzzle come together quite nicely here on Hash Church. So I just want to say thanks, everybody. It's awesome.

2:30:02Etienne FontanHey, thanks for providing us an opportunity to lend our voices to support and to be here.

2:30:09SpeakerYeah, man. Absolutely. That's the first hour.

2:30:14IndraThat's first hour. So, next week, next week, I'm going to tell you my old method for separating trichomes from the green leaf. And it's very, I think, it competes well with your dry shift method. And it's a very, very less time involved and very efficient method. And I have a new method that I use now. I've refined my electrostatic method, so I'm going to give away this other method which I used, which is, I mean it just very selectively separates the trichromes off in complete purity.

2:30:59IndraAnd I'll give you guys that next week, so I'll give you something to look forward to. You know, it's not going to be the best thing you'll hear during it, but those of you who Pay attention to how it works. We'll realize it can also work with other materials equally as well. And it'll be nice. It'll be fun. I can't help myself giving away the information, you guys.

2:31:26IndraSo I hope you guys can help yourself with putting the... A small something in an envelope for me.

2:31:33BubblemanWell, dude, like I said, you already have money sitting from the last time on Hash Church that I met.

2:31:40IndraYou know what I call money?

2:31:41BubblemanYou want me to put it in an envelope for you?

2:31:43IndraNo. You just let it ride, whatever it is. Listen, when 10,000 people watch and start saying it in, then I'll have it. You know, even if people just send you a few bucks, if everybody who uses it at all puts it in an envelope and sends it to you, that would be nice. But anyway, I'm not counting on that because I've never counted on anybody else for anything.

2:32:13BubblemanI think it's a nice opportunity you're giving people to experience integrity. I'll send you an envelope.

2:32:22DrWell, Marcus, that's a... Marcus, that's exactly why I reached out saying, you know, with that spirit, how can we get this thing moved into the mainstream of the industry here, you know? It seems like, I would think that again, I don't know where you are on this, Indra, but if you really had your druthers, couldn't you basically just have a device or a machine that you could sell?

2:32:52DrI mean, and to me it's like you have the story behind it, the patented behind it, and so now here it is, another commercially available extractor that can be used just like the other extractors.

2:33:06IndraWell, in fact, I have estimates from several large firms that make vessels, because a lot of these companies will make a vessel any damn way you want. And what I wanted, of course, was jacketed vessels because if you're going to do this and do it right, it's going to have to be a jacketed vessel so that you can control everything. The minute you lose control, which with those straight up and down pipes and that bottom thing happens, the minute you do the extraction, you're losing control.

2:33:41IndraThe symptom of that is how many people have hurt themselves trying to do it and how crappy some of the products are that people turn out trying to do that. A lot of people buy that stuff, figure out that it's scary, it doesn't really work the way they thought it was, and you see it on Craigslist. You see the shit on Craigslist. I've questioned many of them and there's many problems that they...

2:34:09IndraThere's many problems that they have using the equipment because the equipment is not made properly. So, just so everybody knows out there, I'm going to come out with a Three levels of the equipment, which I think will suffice for everybody that's doing this. One is going to be a desktop scenario for people who want, me and my friends are going to get high and you're not going in the fucking business.

2:34:36IndraAnd with that, you'll get along with it a license and how to use it, plus you'll get to come to either an online or an in-person class and we'll teach you how to use it.

2:34:48DrWhat scale? What scale will that be on?

2:34:51IndraThat'll hold a kilo.

2:34:53DrA kilo, okay.

2:34:55IndraComfortably hold a kilo, maybe a little more.

2:34:58BubblemanJust a desktop unit.

2:35:00DrYeah, that's a big desk.

2:35:03IndraWell, listen, it'll have two buttons on it. You've got to think big. I don't know what to tell you guys. Listen, my main chamber will hold 2,500 kilos at a whack. So I'm scaling down to desktop is one kilo. And I figure if you're going to do this, I mean, you can put a pound in it. You can put a quarter pound in it. But if you fucking find something that you want to have for a while, you can toss the whole kilo in.

2:35:36BubblemanToss the whole kilo in.

2:35:38IndraThat's the desktop one. Then from that I'm going to have what we call the very first commercial level. And the commercial level one will hold 30 pounds. And that one, all of these are two button units. Once you fill it, you push one button, and when you're done, you push the other button, and then after the bell rings, you open up the chamber, and there's your material.

2:36:04DrJohn, what's the volume of butane that you're using in your desktop unit? You know, just ballpark.

2:36:11IndraOh, I mean, it's a tiny amount. It's the size of the chamber. You know, a little less than, it's about two-thirds of the size of the chamber. And that chamber will hold a kilo, so you can figure from there approximately what it holds. And by the way, with these systems... I will be supplying the gas that I researched for many years, found, and I bought 14 tons of it.

2:36:37IndraAnd so I will be supplying with all these units the gas to run them. And these units will be what we really call a closed loop. No bullshit about closed loop. This is going to be a real closed loop system.

2:36:53DrI have to interject for a second, John. I have this Walter White type vision of these buried tanks somewhere in the desert.

2:37:04IndraNo, they're not buried. I have a regular business extracting essential oils. It's out in the Midwest.

2:37:11DrOkay, so no visions of Walter White? No, no.

2:37:17IndraJust 14 tons of gas sitting out in the sunlight in containers. But anyway, these things will not leak and it's charged forever. And if it does run out of charge somehow, like if you're an idiot and you bleed some of the gas out of it, you can send it back and we'll fill it again. That's going to go with all of the different extraction units. Because listen, I have...

2:37:45IndraThis particular gas mixture extracts... I mean, just ask anybody who smokes the oil from it, and they will all tell you that shit is the best I've ever smelled, tasted, and smoked. That was sour diesel number two, right? And bang, right on. You can smell what butt it comes from. It's so potent. But anyway, the second extractor will do 30 pounds, and the one up from that will do 100 pounds.

2:38:11IndraThen if you want to get bigger than 100 pounds, you have to call me and we'll talk. I can make it up to 2,500 kilos if you want. And by the way, we have a service. If you've got 2,500 kilos of something and you want to extract it, I can do that for you within a week's time.

2:38:27DrYes, so I'm interested in that for Catman. Can I talk to you? I'm looking for a pen. Can I talk to you offline about that?

2:38:33IndraYou can, and you can get my information from Mark. I don't want to say it just out loud.

2:38:39DrOkay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:38:40IndraThere's 850 people listening.

2:38:43BubblemanHe actually contacted me, and I told him I was going to put you in contact with him. I just, I hadn't spoken with you yet, John.

2:38:50DrYeah, we have a catmint project over in India that I would like to engage with you on this. Yeah.

2:38:59DrYeah. Let's extract some cat mint in the jungle, man. What do you think?

2:39:06IndraI'm open to everything that's going to bring a revenue stream in my direction.

2:39:12DrAll right. Well, Mark has hooked us up for sure.

2:39:14IndraYou know, not long back, we extracted some fish. I said I was never going to do food again. Not like that anyway. No animal tissue. But we extracted a very, very extremely fatty fish that they brought us. Thank you for watching.

2:39:52IndraI don't know. It smelled like a fish's behind, you know? What it smelled like, it was like unbelievably gross. But we did eat a tiny piece of the fish they gave us at the end of it. And I got to tell you, it tasted like lobster. It was, you know, it was incredibly delicious.

2:40:13DrSo after you extracted the fish, you ate the fish and it was free of oil taste, did you say?

2:40:20IndraFor the most part, yes.

2:40:23DrI wonder if you could take an oily fish like a mackerel, which to me, a mackerel sushi is just a little bit too fishy for me, and really get a lot of that oil fishiness out of mackerel sushi that way.

2:40:35IndraThat'd be cool. Well, let me say this about that. What I've discovered over the years is you can partially extract things by simply giving yourself the timeline. If you just want to collect certain fractions, you put it underneath the gas, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, bleed the gas off, extract it, and check out your fraction. If you want a complete extraction, maybe it's going to take an hour.

2:40:58IndraMaybe you're going to put hot gas in on it. But I know I have found some very interesting fractions. Like, for instance, I did some German camomile. And a German chamomile, everybody thinks that that oil is blue. Isn't that right, Natasha? German chamomile is, everybody thinks, oh, that oil is blue. Well, that's baloney. I extracted it, and when I extracted it, it was two fractions. One heavy orange one, and one really light yellow fraction.

2:41:27IndraAnd when you put those both in a test tube and heated them up, guess what? They turned blue. But, so there, you're getting two fractions of And I did that as a very fast extraction. They were probably under for 10 minutes maximum. And I think that concludes recovery time at all. And they came out in these two beautiful... Another thing is turmeric. Turmeric is full of a thing called the curcumins.

2:41:54IndraCurcumin. Curcumins. Okay. So I... I'm sorry. You're close. You're good. I'm glad I've got someone here to scrape my ass out. But anyway... You're good. Yeah. I get two fractions when I extract curcumin. And one of them is a very creamy, pure white, and the other one is a light yellow or orange oil. And the guys who extract turmeric all tell me that they have to do it one way or another.

2:42:22IndraThey've got two methods. One method gives them curcumin. The other method gives them the oil but no curcumin. So when my method came along, they gave both in full yield. Those people were in a big hurry to license it. But when you're extracting essential oil, you know, I've had 20 years of experience doing essential oils at this point in time, and I probably extracted everything except a hat full of assholes.

2:42:50IndraI've had people show up with that, but... There's a lot of things in the world that you wouldn't think. Every single thing on this planet has oil in it. You know, I crushed, I took some mineral oil-bearing rocks and extracted it for a guy, and he loved the mineral oil, highest quality he ever saw, so forth and so on, like that. But, you know, there's a big thing in the world to not change the status quo.

2:43:17IndraBut people who've been, like, making food with hexane, for instance, are like, Oh, yeah, well, that means I'd have to rebuild my whole factory. No, I'm just going to keep doing hexane, you know. And hexane is, you know, you wouldn't want to get it on you. You'd rather smear fresh skunk shit on your arm than to get hexane on it.

2:43:36DrWell, that's a really interesting thing that you touch on, which is that could soybeans be degummed with butane in closed loop?

2:43:45IndraYou bet they could. You bet.

2:43:47DrSo what kind of soybean oil? Have you made that kind of soybean oil, John? You bet. What is that like?

2:43:52IndraBeautiful. It smells good. You almost want to eat it.

2:43:58DrAnd what about the spent soy flour you get from...

2:44:03IndraIt changes in the flour a thousand times easier. You can put the soybean... Thank you for joining us.

2:44:33BubblemanWe had them all tested, and they were like, this is the highest protein powder isolate from hemp we've ever seen. In fact, it was about 12% or 13% higher than the company that claimed they had the highest protein powder isolate, and that was Manitoba Harvest, who sold a couple years later for $133 million.

2:44:53DrDid you look at the fatty acid profile of the butane extracted versus hexane extracted to compare?

2:45:03IndraWell, before we do that, let me say this about that. On that extraction I made for you, Mark, if you told me to do it again today and you sent me seeds that were already de-hulled, the tannins wouldn't have been present in it that were present because the tannins are actually oil-based and they were in the shell. So when we extracted that, not only did we get the pierced oil with it, slight some tannins were in it, that was from the shells.

2:45:32BubblemanYeah. That oil was gold.

2:45:35IndraYeah, it was beautiful. Tasty. Boy, I drank a shot glass full of it. It was amazing.

2:45:40BubblemanListen, I showed it to my old partners and I can tell it scared them.

2:45:48IndraYeah, because when you extract it the old way, it's green.

2:45:51BubblemanYeah, their oil was all green and I was like, and they were like, how does he, right away they said, oh, he's just running this through charcoal and I'm like, no, no, it wasn't.

2:46:01IndraThere was no green in it. There wasn't even one fucking chlorophyll cell, pardon my French. No. There was no chlorophyll in it, period.

2:46:08BubblemanSo I just basically tell that story for those listening that that gives a lot of, you know, sort of backing to the things that John is saying. We're not just having a person we don't know come on and go off and say extreme claims. I've seen some of these claims put into reality and it's... He told me the lab wasn't going to believe the results and that they'll say that they haven't seen results this high before and all three labs said that exact thing to me.

2:46:39IndraWell, listen, I've got about 20 letters from some of the biggest labs in the country asking me, How did I manage to get oil that didn't have any footprint in it? Because we had all the big companies were getting us to make samples and sending them off, and they would come back 100% pure, and these guys were subjecting it to every test known to man. And they were like, well, I don't understand how you did this, and I'd like to know.

2:47:09IndraAnd I'd just write them all back and go, well, I can extract more for you, but I ain't going to tell you I did it. And that's the way I kept it. I just didn't bother telling anybody. The less people you tell about it, the less chance it has of getting transmitted. So that's why I'm using this medium to talk about some of these things because I know the more is exactly true.

2:47:30IndraThe opposite. Every microphone is a speaker and every speaker is a microphone, right? So instead of keeping it a secret, I'm blasting it out over the airwaves like I did the original VHO thing. And I'm doing that because, hey, maybe there's somebody out there who will look at everything we've done so far and be able to use that to climb up on our shoulders. Absolutely. Have something better.

2:47:57IndraWhat about if you could develop using the nitrogen oil combining method a kind of a candy bar that really wasn't candy but it had enough good things in it so it was nutritious for people who need something that they can't digest very easily or something they need it needs to digest easily. And if you reduce it to the oil and the basic components that leaves a lot of the plant material out of there that might irritate them.

2:48:23IndraSo it could be a wholesome bar. The other good thing about this method is it really reduces the need for other processing. Like we were talking about the particular thing we just mentioned now, but I did once for somebody macadamia nuts. And they were a 50% yield macadamia nuts. They produced half of as much oil as their weight, which was incredible. Actually it was 52%. But in the end, when they wanted to make Macadamia nut flour out of it.

2:48:54IndraIt just took a few minutes in a grinder, which is far less time. The other way they were doing it, trying to make macadamia nut flour, the flour had a shelf life of six or eight months because it still had some oil in it. It would go rancid and blah, blah, blah. After we extracted 100% of the oil out, the macadamia nut suddenly can sit on the shelf for years, but you can eat them like popcorn after that because the pop in your mouth, they shatter and it's, you know, Way different experience than eating macadamia nuts loaded with oil, which is like eating nut and a lot of butter mixed in with it, which coats your tongue.

2:49:31IndraAnd it makes it so that a bag full of macadamia nuts isn't that bad for you. If you had heart stuff, you wouldn't want to have macadamia nuts as a heavy part of your diet because there's so much fat in them. But so many things are like that. Reduced processing saves time and money. If you want to grind things, liquid nitrogen, extract it, the butane, and combine those things together, you start making some amazing things.

2:50:00IndraI've made so many things over the years. When I first started in with this, I came out with golden bud, and I would take really outrageous buds, and I would take the oil and put it in nitrogen to change it until it was powder. And when it was that way, I would take a bud and dip it quickly in it and spin it. And then when you pulled it out, here was that bud coated with this oil, which was in the liquid nitrogen, and little sparklers.

2:50:25IndraAnd it just looked like some kind of a golden thing. It sparkled. And we would just keep it in the fridge until it was hard and then take it to the shops. And they would just eat these things up. Everybody was like, got golden bud. I want some of that golden bud. And yeah, I mean... Innovation is what we're really trying to do here, isn't it?

2:50:46BubblemanAbsolutely. Move things to the next level. And that's why, as well, the sharing of all the information and learning from one another really is what... Because someone can have this idea and be sitting on it, but it's the person right next to them that can take that shit and bloom it into the biggest, most incredible experience, or maybe even a couple of people down the row. But, yeah, it's interesting to see it...

2:51:11BubblemanComing to light here on Hash Church. You've been sharing incredible gems and we do much appreciate. Just the stories alone have been wonderful. So thanks, John. I always appreciate you coming on and sharing your stories and your information.

2:51:25IndraWell, I'm, like I said before, more than happy to. I feel like all the years spent in India only speaking pidgin English. And by the way, there's about eight or nine different kinds of pigeon English in India, depending on how far north you are and how far south you are.

2:51:49SpeakerDid you see plants growing in India, John?

2:51:53IndraWell, I went to Rishikesh and then I went right up to Manali. So between Rishikesh and Manali, the taxi drive is nothing but plants growing on both sides of the road. Right. I mean, you can't see anything else. They're all 25 feet tall.

2:52:08SpeakerYou're traveling alone. I understand. Did you go anyplace else in India and see ganja?

2:52:15IndraDid I go anyplace else in India and see? I'm sorry, you're cutting out.

2:52:22SpeakerAnd see ganja.

2:52:24IndraDid I see ganja somewhere else? Oh, I saw ganja up in Gangotri. By the temple, I saw guys making bhang and selling it, and that's up at like 12,000 plus feet. And the plants up there are little teeny tiny plants, but they make it the same way. You know, they rub the stems, except for the hash that you get up in Gangotri is brown and soft. It's soft.

2:52:52IndraIt's so soft, it's, I mean, if you squeeze it in your fist, it squeezes out between your fingers. That's how soft it is. And I saw it in...

2:53:05SpeakerYeah.

2:53:06IndraYeah. And I've seen it in Rishi Cash, of course. Yeah, I think I've seen it in a lot of places. I mean, for one, it grows in a lot of places in India. You've got to remember the British Trading Company was using growing hemp in India for a long time for their rope business that was alive and well at the time because of sailing ships.

2:53:34SpeakerWell, they did grow it, but I'm not sure how much. I know they were growing it actually up in Simba.

2:53:44IndraI don't know. I thought they grew it in the south once upon a time, down around Kerala in that area, because that area is, you know, jungle.

2:53:55SpeakerWell, I've got East India Health Reports, the Indian Health Commission, and they're talking about the Simla area up in the Nali area, actually.

2:54:13IndraOh, well, yeah. I mean, everywhere in the mountains, all the three sacred rivers that I went to the top where the temples were, people had along the way and up there. I never saw a place where you couldn't pull over somewhere and in a half an hour's time have some hash. You didn't find buds in India, or at least I didn't, until we grew them ourselves. But everybody had hash.

2:54:41IndraEverybody and his brother had hash, one grade or another.

2:54:46SpeakerI was myself. Much more interested in the actual plants and the seeds and more about the hash. Although I enjoyed the hash.

2:54:58IndraOh yeah, listen, we went up above Manali and every time we found a plant that was good and had seeds in it, we collected seeds. I mean, we brought back I don't know how many, probably 50 pounds over a period of years of seeds because we thought Here's the future, some of these seeds, you know. Some of them were just incredible, unbelievable.

2:55:23BubblemanI think you should open a museum with your essential oil extracts that you have, those 2,000 plants and other. That's the olfactory museum. I'd put some money in an envelope for that as well, I'm just saying.

2:55:38IndraWell, you know, here's the thing. I've got it all stored in a freezer there in the Midwest, but every one of those oils, I... Did the procedure of putting it in a box with a microscope at 5 degrees and every single one of them sitting a drop of the oil on top of a drop of the water and at a certain point in time you freeze it with liquid nitrogen and then you put it in a 5 degree controlled box with a microscope in it.

2:56:10IndraAt some point in time as the water and the oil start to thaw out at the same time If it's a living extract like done my method, the flower that that came from will appear as a crystal in the oil. It lasts for about 15 or 20 seconds and then it thaws more and then there's no more crystal. But that phenomena occurs, I believe that crystal forms itself because whatever it was that was in the plant that is keeping it alive or the active ingredient of it is present in the oil after the extraction.

2:56:47BubblemanThat sounds like Dr. Emoto with the messages in the water.

2:56:51IndraWell, he's the one I got the idea from in the first place. I met him long ago. He never spoke English. No, I know. He was a great guy. I grew up in Japan and Okinawa, so I didn't have such a problem with him.

2:57:04BubblemanYeah, I went and saw him speak a few times and got to meet him and talk to him through a translator. He definitely was a good guy.

2:57:12IndraOh, he was a sweetheart. I mean, listen, you felt better just getting in his presence. And he fully backed me on the idea of doing these flower things. I showed him about 50 pictures I'd made, and he got really excited about it, and he wanted me to publish. And I said, well, I am working on a book, and I still am. But guess what? Getting 2,000 plus micrographs ready for publication is no small feat.

2:57:40IndraI'm telling you. It's a humongous... Deal to try to get them all organized with some kind of story about each one of what's going on.

2:57:52SpeakerBubbleman does that every day.

2:57:53IndraSay again?

2:57:56SpeakerBubbleman takes 2,000 micrograph photographs every day.

2:58:00Bubbleman2,000. Oh, shit. There have been days, I'm not going to lie, where I've gotten pretty high up in the hundreds. But 2,000.

2:58:12IndraWell, they're all, most of them are on negatives, film negatives, because at the time I had a 35mm film camera, and I thought, you know, computer photography was in its infancy, and I didn't trust it to archive the material. So I got out my trusty DSL and took the pictures with the camera. And I've got all those negatives and all those have to be printed again on another negative and then printed as a print.

2:58:48IndraAnd then that print I have to take separately one by one, go through them, set it up, and then the guy will arrange all the negatives. And he'll tell me how it has to appear on the pages with whatever the text may be in with it. It's a huge pain in the ass, but I think anybody who sees it and sees all the different crystals will get a new feeling for what oils may be.

2:59:13IndraWhen you extract an oil with an alcohol or by steam, I've tested all those and none of them, when you subject them to the same test of freezing and thawing, all of them just make an ice cube. And so to me, the fact that those oils are just making an ice cube is whatever it was that was alive in there is gone due to the alcohol or the contamination of the alcohol because things don't like to crystallize out unless they're very pure or the heat has destroyed it.

2:59:47IndraAnd so I've run the same test on mine. Once my oils are heated, And I put them back to the same test again. It just makes an ice cube. It doesn't make the crystal afterwards. So the heat drives the living part of it out. Now that's just all my theory and maybe you can poke holes in it. But I've done it so many times I'm a believer in it because I see where does the flower crystal come from?

3:00:14BubblemanYeah, I'd love to see some of those pictures.

3:00:17IndraWhat's causing it to be born? I mean, why? I mean, the only conclusion I could come to was, is it still alive? What do you think, Doc?

3:00:26DrI don't know. I think it just, is it just crystalline THCA that's ordered in the solid state while it's frozen and just has a

3:00:37IndraNot talking about DHC, talking about sunflowers, whatever. I'm just talking, if it was sunflower oil.

3:00:44DrI thought we were talking specifically about cannabis.

3:00:46IndraNo, no. We're talking about any kind of flower. If it's a sunflower, it produces a crystal with all the sunflower projections and the mound in the middle in a crystalline form.

3:00:57DrRight, right.

3:00:59IndraWhatever the flower is, is the crystal that appears in the oil. I've never tried doing that with pot yet. Strangely enough, I just haven't ever got around to it. I don't have my five-degree microscope and box with me. It's sitting back in the Midwest, so I haven't done anything with it lately. But I intend to...

3:01:19DrI want to make sure, John, I want to make sure I understand the phenomenon.

3:01:23IndraI wish I understood it, but go ahead.

3:01:26DrWater and your plant oil, right?

3:01:28IndraWhat I do, exactly what I do is take a Petri dish, and I drop a drop of pure water. In the petri dish, distilled water. On top of that, I very carefully place a drop of the essential oil that I want to work with. I have this all in a bowl, and I very carefully pour in about half a pint of liquid nitrogen down the sides of the bowl.

3:01:55IndraThat freezes everything, the petri dish, rock solid. Okay? Then I take the petri dish, pick it up, stick it in the box with a five degree microscope, and observe it until it begins to thaw. At the moment of thaw of the oil on top of the water is when the crystal manifests. Whatever kind of flower oil it came from, that's the crystal that manifests. It lasts for about 15 seconds, sometimes more, and then it starts to melt at the edges and goes away and just becomes a drop of oil again.

3:02:31SpeakerWell, what you need to do is immediately do it with widely, narrowly, and see do the power crystals look different.

3:02:40IndraI couldn't understand anything you said.

3:02:42BubblemanI know. I think Sam might have to restart his browser. He's on the robot. Okay. Oh, wait. I heard that good.

3:02:51SpeakerOkay, maybe I was too close. I was just suggesting that he tried with indica, sativa, and hemp and see are the crystals any different.

3:03:02IndraWell, I intend to do that. And sometime this winter, after the snowfall scenario, I'm going to send my son back Midwest to get the majority of my laboratory and bring it here. And I've got those things. Back in the Midwest, I've got a very beautiful 20 by 22 laboratory that has everything, including my giant freezer with all these samples in it.

3:03:30SpeakerDoes the oil have to be taken from a living flower or can it be dried material?

3:03:42IndraWell, to date, all those tests that I have done are from living fresh material. You know, this process, by the way, works with the material fresh as well as it works with the material dry. The only difference is during the process, whatever water was present in the material will come out as well.

3:04:08IndraSilence, huh?

3:04:11DrI'm just thinking, so again, so like these things are going to be frozen in liquid nitrogen, and so what you're observing is a differential thawing where the water is now completely a liquid phase, but there's still some solid phase to the oil phase?

3:04:26IndraThe oil is a drop on top of the water drop. The water drop starts to thaw, and I think it's the attenuator for how quickly the oil dissolves. Because, like I said, in a moment, as the oil starts its dissolve, there's a window there that this crystal forms in and becomes clear. And then it also melts as quickly on the other end and goes away. Now listen, you take that same drop of oil and heat it up to 112, okay?

3:05:00IndraPut it back in there and you won't see a crystal, you'll just see like an ice cube. And that's all it'll produce every time. So, What's causing that crystal to form? I mean, I'm just guessing when I say it's the life force. But if you've got a better guess, I'm all ears. What do you think, Natasha? Do you think it's proof that it's alive?

3:05:23SpeakerI have no idea. It's alive! I think if you heat it, you're decarboxylating the life right out of it.

3:05:37DrNo, but it's not just, it could be any flower, Sam. It doesn't have to be cannabis.

3:05:41SpeakerOh, no, I understand. I'm just joking. Right.

3:05:45DrI think it has to do with differential melting temperatures between the two phases, and the oil phase stays ordered longer than the water phase for some unknown reason we'll call the Davis phenomena.

3:06:02IndraWell, the oil is more viscous than the water.

3:06:06DrRight, so it might be a surface tension phenomena. Let me... I have to... I have a friend who's a chemical physicist who understands... All these things. Let me ask him about this. There's probably some math that underpins this.

3:06:20IndraKeep in mind, it's a crystal that there's no question in your mind that it was from this flower because here's the flower. Now, I don't think that's some kind of surface tension phenomena. I think it's another phenomena that points to a level of energy that exists that these days we're only able to guess at, but Here is a clear sign.

3:06:46DrManifestation of, yeah, that's interesting.

3:06:48IndraIt's a manifestation of that energy that we couldn't measure or find any other way. You know, in fact, if you think about it, it's similar to the BHO method coming along. It manifested out, I said it, so it had these various effects, and now it's

3:07:10DrWell, John, I wonder if there's more of a rather than energy effect, if it's more of an entropic factor, so there's more entropy. So entropy, as we know, is the randomness in the universe, and because the universe is expanding from the Big Bang, right? The universe is becoming a more random place and so there's just differential levels of entropy between the water and the crystals or something.

3:07:37IndraI don't think so. I think if anything it's a morphogenic field.

3:07:42BubblemanBoom! Little Rupert Sheldrake. Bam!

3:07:45IndraMorphogenic fields, look, they're easy to understand. Go to Australia and pick up a golden gopher and look at it. It's a marsupial, but it looks just like a golden gopher, same shape. Go to Madagascar and dig up a golden gopher, and lo and behold, it's a lemur. So you got a marsupial and a lemur. Go to the USA and dig one up, and it's a rodent. But if you put them together in a cage and you're looking at them, unless you turn them over, To try to identify them, you couldn't tell, which means that there's a niche for gophers that gets filled by a morphogenic field that's present here on Earth.

3:08:21IndraGophers are needed, so some creature is going to take that form. I believe that morphogenic field exists in everything, and especially in humans, and it accounts for why some humans are not quite humans. Morphogenic fields creates these people no matter what.

3:08:36BubblemanYeah, Rupert Sheldrake's got a few great books on morphogenetic resonance theory, and he You know, he wrote a book about how dogs know their owners are coming home before they get home. They'll just kind of be like, oh, like, it's an interesting theory for certain.

3:08:54IndraWell, I just don't know another reason. I can't think of any other scientific-based reason why those crystals would form in that shape. Hey, John. Yes, ma'am.

3:09:06SpeakerI just wanted to ask, with your big repertoire of different aromas that you have stockpiled, what's the shelf life like on them? Because I know whenever I have essential oils, the heavy, like the vetivers and patchouli and the nice resins, they get better as their lifespan ripens, I guess, whereas the citrus type essential oils really only have a lifespan of like a year. Is that kind of the experience you're finding with your stuff?

3:09:37IndraWell, I was having quite a few oils that were changing over time. And so what I started doing was I put them in a special container and in that container we suck all the air out and then we put nitrogen back in. And in addition to that, I have a special freezer that's ammonia powered that freezes them down to extreme low temperatures. And since I've done that, I've really not been able to detect any changes in makeup of them.

3:10:07IndraAnd I test them. I've got a mass spectrophotometer on the end of my gas chromatograph. And I'm just self-taught on that, you know, because I listen to a lot of people about how to run a gas chromatograph, and no two people had the same method. It was crazy. I talked to a bunch of organic chemists, and everybody thought, oh, this is the way to do it, and this is the way to do it.

3:10:29IndraAnd so anyway, I ended up self-teaching myself how to run it so that I could understand it. And I realized that they needed to, some way you needed to stop the oxidation. So therefore, the nitrogen cover and the deep, deep cold. So under those circumstances, they pretty well all fared very well.

3:10:51DrSo good storage. Yeah, and try to keep the moisture out if you can, too.

3:10:56IndraWell, when you suck it dry in a vacuum... Before you put the nitrogen in, you're very much going to have a dry oil. And then when you dry the nitrogen to the appropriate media that you put back in it, pretty much guarantees you're not going to have any... It's going to be such a negligible amount of moisture present that it won't harm anything.

3:11:20DrCan you store the oil over sieves, though, if you wanted to? I mean, you could store them over 3A sieves just to make sure that you scrub any adventitious moisture out of there.

3:11:29IndraWell, it goes through that process before it gets stored, as I mentioned to you before. A lot of the oils, we end up putting them through activated charcoal and molecular sieves right in the chamber as we're extracting them because it eliminates a lot of colors that you don't want and it doesn't do anything to the good smells and tastes. So you got to use the right molecular saves.

3:11:58IndraYou got to use five to nine angstrom because those are the ones that absorb the right stuff that you want to deal with. They're cheap enough. You can buy a five pound box of them fairly cheap and nobody phones the DEA agent when you buy them.

3:12:15DrSo you used all the time. Jesus.

3:12:19IndraYeah, they're a common thing. I mean, molecular saves are just a way of eliminating. They use them in chemical reactions. They actually put them right in the reaction.

3:12:28DrYeah, we use them as a catalyst. They actually turn out to be acidic. So you could actually use them as an acid catalyst to do an acid-promoted reaction. And so that was one concern that you have to have if you're heating up any cannabinoid in the presence of acid. You can certainly start isomerizing Delta 9 to Delta 8.

3:12:50IndraWell, as I mentioned to you, we start off at extreme low temperatures and our method of degassing the oil is the lower chamber has a jacket in it and that jacket is fed right off the compressor head of the compressor so that gas is maximum hot but that gas isn't hot enough to Thank you for joining us today.

3:13:38IndraBut what it does do is it makes the gas that's in the chamber come out at a very good rate, and there's nothing to freeze up. You know, when you're trying to get that bottom chamber, the last of the gas out, people have got heaters, they've got heat tapes, and all of this wasted time, a jacketed thing. The gas itself that you're using for the extraction heats up and heats the whole thing up.

3:14:08IndraAnd that way the gas comes out at an ideal temperature. And as the gas grows less, the heat grows less until finally in the end there's no more gas and there's no more heat and your extraction is ready, set, go.

3:14:25BubblemanWell, that's what I'm talking about. Man, I'll tell you, we rocked a solid three hours and 15 minutes. I guess we could keep going. I don't know. What do you guys say? You want to keep going? You want to keep pushing Hash Church or are we done for this particular Sunday afternoon? How is the panel feeling about that?

3:14:41IndraYou probably heard me blabber long enough.

3:14:44Etienne FontanI'm absorbing like a sponge. I'm learning.

3:14:46IndraOh, I know.

3:14:48Etienne FontanIt's so hard to interject. This is a whole other level. So when I'm not teaching, I love learning. So I'm just absorbing. So, I mean, I can listen to Indra and, you know, and Mark and, you know, of course I can listen to Bubble Man, I mean Skunk Man, Sam every time. So, you know, I have no reason to stop.

3:15:11SpeakerI'm going to let you guys go. I've got this awesome trade show for you today, and I'm listening, and I love you guys for what you do, but more stuff coming, I guess, next week. You guys have a fantastic day. Thanks.

3:15:25BubblemanHave a good one, Johnny.

3:15:27SpeakerI've got this envelope right here for you, and it's dropping it off for you, Mark. Okay.

3:15:32IndraThanks, Johnny. Appreciate it.

3:15:34SpeakerThank you, guys. Peace. You have a fantastic day, guys.

3:15:38IndraVery good. Very good indeed.

3:15:40BubblemanHaven't heard much from you today, Todd. What's going on in the world of Todd?

3:15:46SpeakerI was listening, too. I'm enjoying it. I mean, you know, a lot of reasons why I actually did House Church was to invoke the conversations that were stimulating and You know, we're still in a cultural situation where you really can't go out and sit down in a coffee shop in America and talk to your friends like this. And this is, you know, ironically, you know, a social moment for me in the mornings where I'm listening to people that I get admiration for and I know their history.

3:16:11SpeakerAnd, you know, John's got great demonstratable experience, as does Sam, as does most of the panel. I really enjoyed it. So I was just sitting here kind of quiet, pulling it in, thinking about crystals forming in oil for seconds myself. And I like it. You know, I think that sharing this information is incredibly important. And I think that this is the reason why so many of us are doing it and have done it for so long.

3:16:37SpeakerAnd, you know, I feel good about it. I mean, what's going on in my life is not much different than another Sunday, smoking weed, being happy.

3:16:46BubblemanAwesome. Well, I was trying to get Kirk Toussaint in here as we just had some pretty big announcements here in Canada about our MMAR turned MMPR and now the ACMPR, I believe, if I got that right.

3:17:02SpeakerWhat the hell is that?

3:17:03BubblemanThey basically announced our new sort of, you know, what the new rules are going to be based on Judge Phelan's, you know, decision in the Supreme Court. I think it was, I don't know, I should know the names of all these decisions, but I don't. Johnny would have been all over it. But basically, we fought for our right to grow, and we won through that coalition lawsuit, thanks to people like Jason Wilcox and John Grafalo and Remo and Sandra and so many, many more.

3:17:32BubblemanObviously, Kirk and John. And we won our rights to grow as medicine. The judge said you have until August 24th to get this right, or it's right out the window. And so August 11th, I guess they announced it on their page, and they have a bunch of different rules. But basically they're allowing Canadians to grow their own, and it's not too, too bad. I think it's like five plants for every gram that your license is for per day.

3:17:58BubblemanSo I have a 20-gram-a-day license. I would be able to grow 100 plants, which is exactly the same as the old system, which allowed me to grow 99 plants for my 20-gram-a-day license. Oh, wow.

3:18:11SpeakerBut also allowing lab testing now by private patients.

3:18:16BubblemanExactly. So that's no longer considered trafficking when you want to grow your own MMR cannabis like John and myself and many others do. If we want to take it to the lab, technically when we give it to the lab technician, it's trafficking. So they've changed that as well. They actually changed a few things. I'm sure there's things that people aren't overly stoked with. I wanted...

3:18:43BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

3:19:07SpeakerNothing that I've noticed really has changed in these new rules right now anyway.

3:19:13BubblemanRight, it's pretty open in Canada within reason though to do testing and to do studies, huh?

3:19:19SpeakerWell, there's still definite limitations. Like, it's hard to do cannabis research in Canada. Not as hard as in the States. Like, you still... I think the major difference is there's more places you can actually get legal cannabis from licensed producers in Canada to do research with, whereas in the States, again, with the new rule changes, that will change. But with these new set of rules that just came out, I don't think there's any changes to research in Canada right now, though.

3:19:48SpeakerRight.

3:19:50BubblemanHey, Johnny B, you're back.

3:19:54SpeakerYou know, in some ways I think that it's a great example of how this is a slow evolution of our rights being returned. And, you know, and I think that it's hard for me, you know, obviously looking at the Hash Coach group, all the people that have been talking about, So it's about momentum and that's what we're building. You know, it's the last time around.

3:20:40Etienne FontanWe didn't get this opportunity. We lost with, you know, 19. And because of that, if we lose again, the emboldenment that it would give prosecutors as well as other states saying, hey, California lost twice, so why should they care?

3:21:00SpeakerWell here, I was going to jump in here because you guys were talking about what happened with the new system. It's interesting how it's going to start panning out because I've been basically paying attention to it the whole time as a big part of while growing my own. So we're now going to be able to start buying seeds and clones from LPs. We register. Doctors will then, you know, redo grams and what you're able to.

3:21:28SpeakerAnd it does say a limited amount. So it's going to be interesting of what I think we anticipated is everybody's going to get a mail-out package on the 24th. This time it won't be like with your name on it. And just see what's going to happen. I really want to hear Kurt talk about it because I know he's really on top of it, but it's going to be good for patients and for people who want to grow their own for medicine.

3:21:51SpeakerI'll be able to continue doing that and I'll be able to keep doing my, you know, build a hash room now, like 100%. That's like happening. You'll see a change with a nice little hash room guaranteed and I'll be able to continue doing what I'm doing without being threatened by law enforcement. You know, it's good for patients. We'll see how it's going to And for the storefronts, they're going to start clamping down.

3:22:13SpeakerThe whole thing is being more compassionate. There was nine raids the other day in Toronto, cannabis culture, there's a bunch of them, some of them weren't even announced anymore. So we're definitely seeing a big change and it's going to be, I don't know, we'll see what happens over the next few weeks because on the 24th we'll see these new regs come in and what we're allowed to That's what we're going to have, but so far it's a thumbs up.

3:22:40SpeakerSo I just wanted to weigh in on that because I've got to go guys, but that's what's been going on right now and more to come. So 34 licensed producers, a lot of them already have a lot of our strains, a lot of these clones, D&H, there's going to be a lot of good access and then we're going to see a distribution network put in and That's what's just going to happen.

3:23:08SpeakerIt's going to be good, and some people look at it as being bad, but for patients, it's a win-win, totally, 100%. I'm really happy for me as a patient. I know I can just continue growing forever.

3:23:22IndraTo step in the right direction, I think.

3:23:24Speaker100%. Foot in the door. Foot in the door. Yes. Awesome, guys. Peace and love you. I'll see you again. Bye now.

3:23:34BubblemanTake it easy, Johnny. Have a good day. Say hi to everyone down there. I guess he's going to the Maximum Yield Grow show that's happening down in Vancouver.

3:23:47BubblemanI'm calling it a day myself. I get to hang out with my family on Sundays. It's always a nice blessing. Chill out with the youth. So he's attending the Maximum Yield Grow. Something like that. Maximum grow, maximum yield. I don't know the exact name of it as I'm not personally going, but I think he might have mentioned it right before he said he was going.

3:24:14BubblemanAll right, guys. Well, you know what? I want to thank Natasha. That was really a great breakdown that you did both early and in the middle and towards the end of the show. I really enjoyed having you on the panel, and we definitely want to get you back again soon. Sooner than later. And we're going to hook up and do that terpene bioassay together. I want to show you all the Blue River terpenes and check out your line.

3:24:40BubblemanHow can people check you out online? Are there Twitters and Facebooks and websites that you can share with us?

3:24:48SpeakerYes, so if people want to know more about the skin care that we make, you can check out our website, rizremi.com, so R-Y-Z-R-E-M-I.com.

3:25:02SpeakerIf you want to know more about my background, you can check out my website, natasharizphd.com. I can post the links at the bottom of the YouTube channel, too, if it helps people. I'm also active on Twitter, so at Tash Riz. If you have any questions, let me know. And I saw some people were posting about hyperemesis syndrome, so I can also talk about that again at, I don't know, another time.

3:25:28SpeakerBut, yeah, so... Email me. If you go to my website, also my website, or sorry, my contact information is contact at natasharizphd.com. So feel free to send me an email. And thank you very much for having me, too. This was very cool, and I hope to make another appearance.

3:25:49BubblemanAwesome, Natasha, very much so. John, always a pleasure, as always, giving out gems to the Hash Church audience in both your stories, in the way you deliver them, and of course in your little gifts to the Hashmaking community. Much love and much thanks for coming on. Skunk Band Sam, as always, dude, a pleasure, you're hilarious, love your wit and your stories as well. Both Todd and Etienne, and of course Mark Scaldone for really dropping it big today, I could tell he was really enjoying the conversation and you gave us some gems as well today, Mark, so.

3:26:26BubblemanI'll thank Todd McCormick once again, and Tony who left, Johnny B, D420K, and of course you guys, the audience, all of you people that are watching all the time. Very cool. Let's make a point on doing this again, let's say next week. We'll meet here for episode 100 of Hash Church. We're getting into the triple digits, and Indra's going to share another gift with us, so Thanks so much, everybody.

3:26:55BubblemanWe'll see you next week for episode 100. Peace.

3:26:58IndraBye, everyone. Bye, Mark. Bye, Natasha.

3:27:02BubblemanBye.

3:27:03IndraThanks, guys.

3:27:04Etienne FontanThank you, everybody. Much love.