Celebrating 100 Episodes with Cannabis Pioneers

0:01BubblemanAll right. Hey, everybody. Welcome. Hash Church episode 100. Coming to you live from Whistler, British Columbia. I'm obviously in my hotel room right now, so you can't really see the beautiful mountains and such, but I want to welcome everyone and explain to you guys all how excited I am for such an incredible 100 episodes of a show that started As a whim. It was a complete and total whim.

0:27BubblemanThat's what it was. It was just checking out to see what live chat is all about. Live YouTube. And this is how 100 episodes later, almost two full years later, we're sitting here with what we have today. So let me just go quickly and send out the links to my crew. I got Facebook links. I got email links. I got Skype links. They're all going out today.

0:56BubblemanWe'll make sure we get that one out. And finally, a Skype to my good friend, Chimera, just in case. I always like to have Chimera on. He's got some great perspective. And like Skunk Man has mentioned in the past, he knows an incredible amount about cannabis. And welcome to Todd and Etienne to the room for Hash Church 100, guys. Oh, shit. It's a C note.

1:21JohnGood morning.

1:22BubblemanIt's a C note. Hey, John. Welcome, John. Hey, John.

1:29JohnJohn, can you hear us? Doesn't look like you can hear us, but it's good. Can you hear me?

1:35SpeakerYes, I can.

1:36Etienne FontanI heard you there.

1:38SpeakerHow is my volume? Is it better than what it used to be? It's pretty good. Good. I'm just checking. Okay. I love the headphones, John.

1:47JohnYou're rocking it, bro.

1:49Etienne FontanHey, John, out of curiosity, that Frisbee behind you that says Pure Hemp on it, is that one of the old Evolution headphones? Frisbees.

1:56SpeakerI got it from Moss and West from Puffs years ago. It's always been hanging around.

2:03Etienne FontanThat's one of the first hemp things we made back in the day. Oh, that's awesome. Welcome, Sam. It used to be stuffed with hemp seeds, too, but I don't think... Good morning. Hey, Sam. Good morning, Sam.

2:16BubblemanMan, I'll tell you, 500 people were anxiously awaiting. That's pretty cool to be in after one minute and see 500 people in the room. Half Church 100.

2:25Etienne FontanHey, where you at there, Bubble Man? I am in beautiful Whistler, B.C.

2:33Etienne FontanHaving a nice weekend getaway?

2:35BubblemanYeah, I'm here for the week, actually. Brought this beautiful Congo. Check this shit out.

2:46SpeakerGood morning, Natasha. Good morning.

2:49Etienne FontanHey, Natasha, welcome back.

2:51SpeakerGood morning, Natasha. Hello. Hello.

2:53Etienne FontanPeople were very excited about your information last week, so thanks a lot for coming back with us.

2:58SpeakerThanks for having me back.

3:01BubblemanYeah, I always appreciate, you know, obviously hash makers, you know, they all want to make hash. They all want to learn new techniques. They're always very excited for someone to share something like that. But I noticed the information you were sharing was more patient driven and people were really like, this is my life, this is something that is affecting me deeply and I need to learn about this.

3:21BubblemanSo I really appreciated the level of information. It really goes deep to people and it's a big deal for people to learn about this.

3:30SpeakerThanks. And before I forget, happy 100th episode.

3:36BubblemanYes. Thank you, thank you. Kind of can't believe it. It's shocking that just on a whim this show was created and then just, you know, everyone that became part of it really directed it and created it to make 100. I'm certain I would have never made 100 episodes of doing what I did the first Hash Church, but it evolved and it changed and it grew and it's kind of a cool platform for us to use now.

4:02BubblemanSo I'm very stoked and I do appreciate the congratulations, but it's for all of you.

4:10SpeakerI am honored to be here on the 100th episode, so thank you.

4:14BubblemanAbsolutely. I sent the invite out to Philippe Henry as well this morning.

4:19SpeakerPerfect. Maybe I'll text him and bug him.

4:24BubblemanYeah, we've got a few different new people coming in. It'll be nice if they make it in. We've got Fred Gardner as well coming in, potentially to talk about some CBD and some different really cool stories about the cannabis industry. He's been involved for a long time. I got that email this morning from Sam and sent it out, so hopefully we'll see Fred as well.

4:46Etienne FontanFred's great people. He's been around forever. He's been... Very much a helper in the Oceana season, the whole Project CBD for sure. So it's great to have him involved because he's definitely one of those who's been on the front lines since the discovery of CBD and realizing it helped patients to point them in the right direction of however they can get the care that they need. So as well as opening it up to researchers and studies and things like that because, I mean, it's, you know...

5:16Etienne FontanIt's a recent rediscovery, but as we saw, you know, CBD was discovered back in the 40s, so it's rather fascinating that here, 60, 70 years later, now it's at the forefront of medicine again, and it's due to all of you and all of us, so good job, everybody.

5:31SpeakerI was going to say, Fred Garner wrote a paper, Molecule of the Year, back in 2007 on CBD. It's a paper that has very much paid huge attention to, and just to see how it's coming, I hope he gets on the show here.

5:46JohnHe's a great guy. He was more of a student of Dr. Todd McCorea than he was just fascinated with CBD. Oshaga Seeds was something that he started. Fred started, gosh, ten years ago. I mean, he did it in order to actually...

6:01Etienne FontanHold on, let me mute John.

6:03JohnHe did it in order to actually communicate to doctors what was going on with the science. He wanted something that was a little more highbrow than High Times and something that doctors could read and relate to and maybe even use as communication devices and tools to bring more people into the fray and explain to him exactly what was going on with cannabinoid science.

6:24Etienne FontanAnd he's an accomplished journalist. Didn't he go to Harvard? I'm not sure where he went to school, but I believe he worked for the LA Times for a long time as a journalist.

6:33BubblemanWell, we need that up in Canada. What a great idea and concept, a really beautiful journal set up and organized to educate doctors.

6:42Etienne FontanAnd it's by and contributed to with doctors. Like my doctor, Frank Lucido, he contributes and has been one of those also on the front lines. He enjoined with Dr. Todd McCorea when the federal government had actually gone after doctors after the initial opening up of Prop 215. And he actually sued to have that right to... Thank you for joining us.

7:23Etienne FontanAnd fortunately due to brave doctors like Dr. Todd McCrea and Dr. Frank Lucido and others, and thanks to Fred Gardner getting that information out, it's been exponential in moving the dialogue along and then thus allowing other states to move forward because if those doctors had been, their voices had been stymied initially here in California, you wouldn't see all the other states change. It would have been just... You've got to go back.

7:46JohnA little further, when I first met Todd, Dr. Todd McGuire, it was really unfathomable for me to comprehend what he was saying, but he was saying that in the 60s when he discovered the information on THC and cannabinoids, at the time he was working for what became the National Institute of Mental Health, and it was classified information, and at the time I figured how could this be classified, but when you look at the The timeline of Mishulin basically discovering THC in 63, at the beginning of the 60s, mid-60s, they were not trying to share this information.

8:20JohnSo Dr. Todd McCorea was really one of the first government whistleblowers because he found out that this was classified, he found out it was helping people, and he got enraged and he really quit his job and set his life on educating people about the medical uses of cannabis.

8:37Etienne FontanAnd he wrote the medical marijuana papers to actually prove it. So what he did is he actually took that government research and put it forward. Sorry, Sam, didn't mean to step on you.

8:46SpeakerNo problem. Actually, he was in charge of the unclassified research. Marijuana Research Department at the, I think it was Mental Health or whatever it was. It was a federal institute in the 60s when he was the one in charge. But it was the unclassified, not the classified.

9:06JohnNo, no, I understand that he was in charge of the unclassified, but initially he had classified status and he found out this information was classified. A lot of what was coming out of Israel was kept from the rest of the public in the 60s. And also researchers, unless you're on a government level. That Todd always was proud of himself, that he was like one of the first government whistleblowers about cannabis.

9:26Etienne FontanAnd he incited me to start doing research into the VA when I was originally starting with my whole Gulf War Syndrome. And I uncovered in the mid-90s Current research that the VA had been doing and it actually, it was all restricted top secret and marked that way and I got access to it and was able to publish it and make people aware that there was still access happening, that they were still actually using monkeys to do test studies on and also uncovered a 50-page questionnaire that was given to Vietnam veterans about their marijuana use since Vietnam.

10:00Etienne FontanIt showed, and Dr. Todd McCrea showed me that there was research still ongoing, which I was able to uncover, but even when I uncovered that, that stuff went even further restricted and could no longer access it.

10:12JohnWhat year, Sam, what year? Well, Gabriel Nahas was more of a prohibitionist than he was anything, and I think he didn't rear his head until the 70s in a big political way in France, but I was going to ask... I forgot what I was going to ask.

10:27SpeakerYou were going to ask me about the date of something.

10:30JohnWell, you know, Dr. Todd McCorea predated Dr. Lester Grinspoon, and I was just wondering, you know, when was the first time you heard about, because the compendium he put out, the marijuana or The Indian Hemp Drugs Commission report was what, 72 he published that, I think.

10:48SpeakerYeah, and he was, I think he was hired by the federal government in 68, but I could be wrong about that year. He held the position for a few years and then was kicked out basically because he was pro-cannabis and the NIDA or whatever it was at the time was anti-cannabis.

11:15JohnI would say as they would be for the next 40 years after his departure.

11:19SpeakerWell, yep, they're still pretty anti-cannabis, but now they can't ignore reality quite so easy.

11:28BubblemanStill happening, though. I'm amazed at how they're still able to ignore reality at this level. I mean, the DEA coming out and announcing, obviously I would have been blown away had they announced they were going to do anything, but it wasn't surprising to hear that they were kind of like, We're going to hold off on that for a bit.

11:46Etienne FontanIt was expected, honestly.

11:47JohnIt's not surprising to me because they're continuing to make money under the current status. This is the problem we're up against with legalization is that all of the companies that are currently profiting from it the way it is would like it to stay the way it is. And certainly that's trickled right down into the cannabis industry now.

12:05SpeakerNot only that, but if you look at the DEA, most of their statistics, their seizures, and everything else come out of cannabis.

12:15BubblemanOf course. Well, imagine, you know, being a... Would you want to follow around and try to capture dangerous, like, drug lords from, like, Sonola and cartels? Or would you rather... Why?

12:26SpeakerJust because they're going to kidnap your family and skin them alive?

12:29BubblemanYeah, or harass cannabis users who will be like, they'll be like, oh, man, this sucks, bro. Like, what are you doing? This is unnecessary. They might get a little educated. That's the worst case scenario with busting a cannabis user, whereas... You know, some of these hardcore drug cartels, I can only imagine that would be the scariest job on the planet trying to take them out.

12:55BubblemanI don't know if Tweeter is owned by Tweed, but Tweeter, of course, is the dispensary here in Canada that blew up because they were making shatter inside their dispensary recently. And they blew up and ended up in the hospital and they're very hurt and it's a bad fucking scene as John himself was speaking about for the last couple of weeks. This is still happening. This is still dangerous.

13:19Etienne FontanCome on, people. When did that happen?

13:21BubblemanLike last week.

13:24Etienne FontanJust closed loop or not? Just open loop? What are they doing?

13:27BubblemanAll I know is they blew up indoors making butane oil.

13:31Etienne FontanSo what is the penalty in Canada for that?

13:36BubblemanWell, the penalty right now is they're burned very badly and they're going to have altered their life probably for many years. That's like the worst right off the bat. And then there's legal ramifications that will happen. And then there's the ramifications of people who own dispensaries that have been doing it right all these years who are very upset to be looking like Like having egg on their face, like, man, you're giving us a bad name.

13:59BubblemanLike, can you not do that? Like, just do it the right way. Like, there's methods, there's patents, there's, you can do this. So it was a little unfortunate to hear that that happened, but... Apparently they were... Making it in the basement.

14:12SpeakerAnd Eddie was just telling me they were burned really bad. Their skin was peeling off as they came out of the basement and stuff. So they didn't have any venting or nothing.

14:20BubblemanBasements are bad because you can't blow out the walls of a basement. Generally it's concrete and it's all surrounded by earth. At least when they're upstairs in a garage or something, the door gets blown off or the walls get blown out. But yeah, being in a basement, oof. I feel terrible for them and my prayers go out to them that they get better and that we can educate one another that That there's ways to do this process without harming yourself, and it really just is a matter of doing it properly.

14:51Etienne FontanScary. What are the penalties there for manufacturing BHO in Canada?

14:57BubblemanI mean, it's probably a manufacturing charge. Here in BC, I can't imagine. I've never heard anyone getting charged with it after blowing up. I can't imagine that they'll be facing any jail time. I

15:09SpeakerI really don't know, Etienne, but we'll follow it closely and just obviously... What they should be doing is sending them to a re-education camp where they get rid of their stupid and replace it with smart.

15:23BubblemanI mean, it's a great idea, you know, and it's a funny thing the way Sam says it, but it's also a truthful thing where, you know, we're not mocking the fact that these people blew up. It's terrible, but it would be wonderful to see more education happening where we're just Those things could be eliminated, obviously. Just the same way we're trying to eliminate poison sprayed on the plant and being inhaled by patients and any other things that have negative connotations, mold in water hash, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

15:51BubblemanThere are many things that as we become more aware that we can just make sure that safety and efficiency is at hand.

16:04SpeakerI do know of one person who had an explosion. He had an explosion.

16:12SpeakerAnd his problem was the insurance company. He didn't get charged. I remember him talking about that. The insurance company he had major problems with, so.

16:20Etienne FontanWhat, they wouldn't cover his expenses, or? The explosion.

16:24SpeakerThe house, it blew up, and he was doing an illegal activity in his house, so he was not sure. So that's what it came down to. He got screwed by the insurance, and it blew the walls, all the windows out and stuff. It was a bad explosion. But, yeah, he got screwed by insurance. There's no coverage. There's nothing illegal in this.

16:43SpeakerJohn, one way to look at it is he got screwed by insurance. The other way to look at it, he was going beyond the bounds of his insurance policy. Yeah, he wasn't charged, but he did wind up losing his house overall.

17:00BubblemanBummer. Bummer. Well, I see Philippe. Philippe Henry is in the room now as well. I'm not sure if he's fixing his camera or figuring out his mic, but we'll welcome him when he gets in. That was a guest of Natasha. She turned me on to Philip Henry. Hopefully he has some very interesting things to share with us today if he can get his camera and mic working.

17:26BubblemanPretty excited, actually. I don't think I've seen too many bong rips happening. Hey, welcome.

17:29SpeakerWhere are you, bubble man?

17:31BubblemanHi, Philip.

17:32SpeakerHello, guys.

17:35Etienne FontanWelcome to the Madhouse.

17:38SpeakerAwesome. Hey, thanks so much. I'm having some, I guess, slight technical difficulties getting into this because I've never done it, but... Looks like I'm good and I'm deckside and pretty stoked for the invite and to get to speak to you guys today. Thanks a lot.

17:54BubblemanYeah, maybe you could give yourself a little introduction into your foray in cannabis, what you're currently involved with.

18:03SpeakerYeah, you bet. I mean, I'll go all the way back. I'm originally from Switzerland and last episode I heard a bunch of you guys talking about Switzerland and basically how different it is than other places or how different it has been. I think things have changed since the early 2000s. But essentially that's my home country and I grew up in a number of African countries as well.

18:28SpeakerSo I do have a slight different take on a lot of things. Cannabis that we hear in the mainstream European slash North American medical and therapeutic cannabis kind of industry that's been started. And a lot of us obviously that are on here probably know A lot of similar things. I did my high school in the kingdom of Swaziland, so I had the opportunity to interact with some of the local people and obviously try a lot of their Swazi gold.

19:04SpeakerAnd I remember it fondly as a place where, you know, they were very proud of the land races back in those days. It was the end of the 90s. And, you know, I also hear that, you know, there's things, prohibition hasn't, you know, has come after, I guess, my foray into those areas. And we had, you know, a lot of, you know, degradation of the land. The native biodiversity, including cannabis and cannabis land races that they had there.

19:35SpeakerSo this is some of my history with cannabis, and I guess the other side, which is basically understanding biodiversity and working to conserve it and the genetic resources out there. It's kind of the second part of my journey, which I did in Switzerland. I went to the University of Lausanne and I studied botany and then population genetics of plants, starting with the olive trees. And then also I did some work on hogweeds, in particular giant hogweeds, which are an invasive species from the Caucasus that was brought into Europe and North America.

20:11SpeakerAnd I guess that's how I learned to use the genetic tool. Which essentially to me is, you know, it's almost like a laser beam. You can flash and see through some of these questions that we have, these cryptic things that are happening in plants and humans and all the other animals around us. So I've got this strong interest in population genetics and really what it is is understanding variation, breaking it down in order to You know, first of all, identify hot spots of variability or biodiversity, such as, you know, using cannabis genome to be able to, you know, identify areas that have high levels of variation and that, you know, would basically warrant particular conservation efforts.

21:01SpeakerSo, you know, that's my broader perspective. I used to, you know, then I came to BC and in BC I did my PhD on a small mammal, basically continuing to use, you know, genetic genomic approaches, basically to the point where I continued on the academic route and did a post-doc at the University of Calgary and then I was an assistant professor at the University of Northern British Columbia in Prince George.

21:30SpeakerSo I kind of went down that route, you know, quite a ways until 2014 when, you know, essentially I decided that I was going to, you know, follow my true passion which is cannabis and cannabis plants and using genetic tools to understand some of the variation, you know, especially in the expression of some of the therapeutic compounds, clearly. And that's kind of when I decided to, I moved to Vancouver and I started immersing myself more in the cannabis culture and cannabis industry that was really budding at that time back then and still is, clearly.

22:02SpeakerAnd I guess that's when I switched my focus to using all my talents and all the skills that I'd kind of gathered to look at cannabis. And then I guess it's not as simple as just saying, hey, I want to go study weed and talk to a bunch of people. In order to work with cannabis as a scheduled substance, we need a whole bunch of paperwork from the government to be able to do that.

22:25SpeakerAnd unfortunately, these hurdles were, I guess, slightly too much for me to take at the time. I definitely did pursue it for a while. Eventually, what I decided to do instead, and I was always part of, I guess...

22:39SpeakerYou know, some of the things that I've been using and working with is working with open data, you know, essentially. So I started just looking on the internet, downloading all the, you know, all the sequences of cannabis I could find, you know, THC, CBD, and all the other genomic... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

23:25SpeakerAnd, you know, slowly enable us to, you know, answer some of these questions that we have in terms of, you know, inheritance of therapeutic compounds. And other groups have done a great job at already kind of shedding a lot of light on that, but there's always something more going on. And then perhaps, you know, before I kind of reopen this up, the other thing that was mentioned last episode by Natasha was basically the 420andMe project, which was basically born of that same kind of, you know, that concept of like, okay, well, it's just really complicated still to do cannabis research and There's a lot of hurdles that I just wasn't prepared to wait, to have to jump over.

24:03SpeakerAnd so I just started looking at something else which is interesting, which is ourselves, right? Because there's two parts to this equation. On one side we've got the plant, on the other side we've got the human, or the people that use it, right? So that's what I started looking into. And again, there's tons of research out there. There's tons of precedent. Most of the studies on cannabis, cannabis use, though, has been funded by the NIH or other government agencies where They basically only fund things that show that cannabis is not therapeutic.

24:31SpeakerSo a lot of cannabis dependence work and a lot of onset of smoking cannabis or things like that and looking at genetic variants that might be associated with that, which is great. They're very interesting things and obviously there's a lot of data now and a lot of the human genome is very well mapped, as you know, and there's online you can actually get access to all those variants and get to look at them.

24:54SpeakerJust to kind of illustrate the variation in the human genome, We have about 3 billion base pairs in our genome, and every two individuals is 99.9% similar. So there's only 0.1% that basically is different, and those are the variants that we're looking at. But still, 0.1% of 3 billion is still a million of... There were three million variants that we could look at and assess and start to document and find associations that weren't looked at previously because simply, well, there's no funding for it.

25:27SpeakerAnd it wasn't really a vehicle for it either because there wasn't as much availability of data on the internet that people can go to download or ask questions. And I guess that's where that project kind of started was looking for where the data is and what hasn't been done yet. And essentially this is an endeavor that, you know, is fully open, is a grassroots effort. Like anybody that has their data from 23andMe can basically upload it on a server and then answer some questions.

25:58SpeakerAnd right now it's, you know, it's a very basic, looking at very basic fundamental questions such as, you know, do you like cannabis or you don't like cannabis? And that's just one of those broad, you know, the broad questions that... We'll help us kind of start separating a data set into multiple parts, because when you're looking at, you're trying to identify parts of the genome that are responsible or associated in the first part with a particular trait, you basically need to have two different groups, one group that, you know, is a case, and one group that's a control.

26:30SpeakerSo, for example, if I said, do you like cannabis or not, people that say no would be a control, people that say yes would be a case, and then you'd be able to build kind of a different A different type of genome-wide association study that's really based on questions that have not really been asked before, I guess, because of funding things and also the fact that maybe there wasn't an interest.

26:53SpeakerPeople didn't know that you actually could do that. But that's kind of the idea in a nutshell. And obviously, as more people join and as conversations kind of revolve around these topics, we'll be able to use them for a lot of different applications, such as studies done in Israel where they did clinical trials on CBD for pediatric epilepsy and basically being able to identify grouping this group of patients Thank you.

27:39SpeakerYou know, that's kind of in the future when you want to apply it more. Right now it's really fundamental and it's free to open any questions, you know, such as anxiety. These are things that we've looked at and there's a few SNPs out there that are associated with anxiety that might make anxiety response to THC more acute. So, you know, we can start explaining these things and looking at the human population as, you know, basically acknowledging individual variation and how we respond to different things and cannabis is just one of them.

28:10BubblemanBack to you guys. It's pretty amazing, dude. It's like you're a... Let me just mute the mic that's repeating there. It's like you're a hash maker with data. You're cleaning up and unveiling the gems in the data. The more data, the more likeliness you are to find these gems. It's fascinating, especially anything for us here at Hash Church. We love unveiling. We love understanding and taking out the guesswork

28:40BubblemanAnd that's the sort of fuel and the passion that's running people right now. It's why there's 820 people in the chat room watching live right now because they really are just, they can't get enough of this information and the more that we unveil, I mean it's really incredible just to hear what you just said. I don't know if many people understand the ramifications of learning this information but there's a lot of that information out there that's still unlearned.

29:06BubblemanIt's still Quite a mystery to us, and it's very cool that people like yourself, Natasha, and others are doing this work. It's important.

29:16SpeakerI have two questions for you. This is Sam here. The best Swazi that you saw when you were living in Swaziland, was it Simsemiya or was it always Seated? Hey, Sam. Yeah, thanks a lot for your question, and I'm a big admirer of everything you've done, and I was really glad to hear from you a couple of times. I guess the question of the Swazi Gold, very rarely did we encounter it since Amelia back in those days.

29:50SpeakerWe did see it a couple of times, but it was all based on the locals going into the bush and coming back, with an exception of like, oh yeah, this guy here, he watched something on You know, you heard about, you know, pulling the males or whatever. So there's definitely been some mostly seeded cannabis, which was, you know, for us was more what we were after. Like back in those days, you know, I didn't really have quite the palate that I developed over the years.

30:18SpeakerSo, you know, I was in high school. I was kind of like, okay, you know, we just want to, Smoke, whatever we had. But, you know, I would say I enjoyed the Sins Amelia more because it wasn't as hard to roll and then it wouldn't have little popping sounds and funny smells and red eyes or whatever we thought were associated with the seeded bud. That's what I presumed was the case.

30:40SpeakerMy second question is, who do you think the leader in human DNA cannabinoid... You know, work, Kevin McKernan at Dizzle Genomics.

30:59SpeakerWhat are the other options? I mean, yeah, I think, I mean, Kevin is... Well, no, that's what I'm asking you. Is there somebody... He seems to have gone further down this path than anybody else in the field that I know of so far. Yes, and you know, again, like I have to say, Kevin's work also inspired a lot of the things that I've done because not only does he look at the cannabis plants and its genome and is also very open about the data sharing, it enables the field to go further faster because now I can have access to his data and I can compare notes and be like, oh, that's the same variant and, you know, because We have to do lots of imputations, meaning that we have to assume to a certain extent that this current draft genome is a certain way.

31:45SpeakerThere's a lot of repeats and a lot of errors that might be caused by the sequencing and the sequencing technologies. And some of the stuff done in 2011 or 2012, right now, when I look back at some of these I guess I have to look back and say, well, you know, in five years, the technology has advanced so much that we get much cleaner data, much, you know, I think we'll be able to have a mapped cannabis genome here very soon with, you know, the efforts of everybody because there's, you know, people in boulders doing the mapping, people doing different things, but to get back to Kevin, I think because he's got the other side of the human side as well, as I kind of illustrated here with my story, I think his is really quite similar with Curtagen and looking, I guess, more at the Well to be honest, you're a man more after my heart.

32:50SpeakerWell, thank you. I do feel that we definitely have a lot in common. And my goal when I switched into, went away from a full-time academic into the, I guess, the more privately funded or even self-funded, crowdsourced, and even in the future potentially crowdfunded endeavors, is to be able to be a part of this group of people that I feel I belong to. I don't really belong to, I don't want to be wearing a lab coat and And, you know, we need people to do that.

33:21SpeakerWe need people, lab coats, that will do clinical trials, that will do preclinical stuff, and then really have that understanding at the molecular level. You know, I come with a broad perspective, and again, it's easy to come in and say, oh, you know, I'll ask questions to people, but that was always my goal, is to talk to here in Canada, you know, the old MMR growers. I started kind of this venture in 2010 with some MMR people and some dispensaries, and Thank you so much for joining us.

34:06SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

34:35SpeakerFor $30, $40, $50 each. There was no alternative. Now it's a completely different story. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the internet is amazing. And, you know, people are understanding the advantage of sharing and open science. I think we're really now, in the past two, three years, although it's been around for a very long time, we're really moved, we're really understanding, especially in the genomic area. Like, you know, Marcus, you mentioned something about, you know, being a hash maker.

35:04SpeakerI always, you know, I don't really, I like to make rosin. I learned from you guys. And, you know, but really when I'm playing with this data, when I'm looking at genetic variants, I really am sifting through, you know, an abundance of information that basically I'm just trying to distill it to the highest quality stuff that falls down at the end that, you know, I can then, you know, I can then use that information to make something meaningful.

35:29BubblemanRight. And to me that is, you're sifting through the contaminant, the 190 and the 160 to get into the 120. The 73 and the 90 micron heads. That's what we do when we sift for, you know, glandular trichome heads.

35:44SpeakerAbsolutely. And then you can make, you know, you can take that and you can make, you know, you can extract it with BHO or you can do something else, which in this case would be now using these different statistical tools to be able to create a graphic that someone can just look at and be like, Okay, now this makes sense to me as opposed to looking through like 15 tables to be able to say, okay, are they really saying that this plant here has got high CBG or am I, you know, is it a different one?

36:07SpeakerSo that's really kind of my goal is also synthesizing the information so that, you know, it's not just a handful of people in the ivory tower that can just sit there and be like, I get it, you know. Everybody should be able to understand that. Philippe, have you seen how NAPRO presents their phyto... I forget what it's called, Fido Photograph or something like that. And it explains all the terpenes with multiple colors.

36:30SpeakerHave you seen one? Yes, I actually have gone on, well, again, Medicinal Genomics had their conference and they showed a presentation from the NAPRO guys. And, you know, I went right, you know, I was like, okay, I downloaded it. I'm like, I'm just going to separate now a data set with kind of some of the strains they have and then use just that information that they generated.

36:51SpeakerTo be able to now quantify that, you know, the colors are super useful and that's great to see that like that. But then you can also use that type of information. I know others are doing it, clearly. I mean, that's one of the low-hanging fruits. But this is just, you know, again, crowdsourcing this data, seeing, oh, it's a different plant. There's going to be, you know, there's issues with this type of approach, obviously.

37:10SpeakerYou know, there's a lot of pitfalls by using someone else's data. That's not exactly the same plant that we're talking about, but yes. You know, now we can separate into the different terpene classes and group them together, and once you have a data set large enough, then you can start being like, oh, you know, maybe if we're interested in this particular terpene synthase, we should be looking at Scaffold, you know, 196854.

37:30SpeakerI just made that number up, but... That's really the thing is being able now to use these hypotheses to target something out of all that. So that's part of that sifting again is being able to just find that little piece that's interesting and others can look at it and be like, boom, here's one of the terpene synthase we hadn't looked at, hadn't found yet in the cannabis genome because it's hidden somewhere in there.

37:49Etienne FontanI wish we had some of those old Swazis. I swear that some of my favorite genetics I've had, when it would ever come through VBG, I would actually buy an ounce just for myself. Okay, Stan, I'll take some Swazi seats.

38:05SpeakerWell, it's not legal for me to send them to you. That's the only problem.

38:09Etienne FontanThat's okay. I didn't ask you to send them to me. I can come get them. Okay, well, I'll wait for you to come and get them.

38:17BubblemanHey, I wanted to give a shout out to High Standards out of Orange County. They're all watching Hash Church right now at their dispensary, so I thought I'd give them a hello and also welcome Indra into the room.

38:32BubblemanWelcome, Indra.

38:35IndraI don't know, does this work? Oh, it works. Okay, well, thank you. Good morning, John.

38:43BubblemanHaving some interesting conversation here today. For Hash Church 100, it's kind of like our birthday today.

38:52IndraHappy birthday to you. Happy birthday.

38:56BubblemanHold the happy birthdays. Hold the happy birthdays. We have a Hash Church panelist who has not yet arrived. And it's Marcus.

39:04SpeakerAnd it's his birthday. Who's getting the free kilo of bubble to celebrate the 100th anniversary? I thought it was free kilos of bubble for everyone. Okay, I agree. Everyone.

39:17BubblemanEveryone. Yes, three kilos of bubble for everyone.

39:22SpeakerWe were discussing that at 1 a.m. this morning.

39:27IndraWhere do we have to go to get that?

39:30BubblemanWell, you know, I think most realiztically it will be Jamaica.

39:37IndraHow much are tickets anyway?

39:40BubblemanWell, it really depends on where you live, but probably around $400 or $400 or something like that.

39:45IndraNor Cal. Nor Cal. In the woods, by the coast, in the redwoods. Oh, in the redwoods.

39:53BubblemanIt's nice. I'm very close to an ancient cedar forest myself right now. It's just up the road across the street from Whistler Black Home. It's called Cougar Mountain, and you go up there and there are some ancient cedars. I don't know, Philippe and Natasha, you're both in and around Vancouver, are you not?

40:15SpeakerI'm in Kelowna. Oh, Kelowna. K-Town. I moved to K-Town, yeah.

40:22BubblemanVery nice.

40:22SpeakerI was going to say, you know.

40:24BubblemanYeah, that's good. That's absolutely good. Well, you should check out the Ancient Cedars, Natasha. You're not too far away.

40:32SpeakerI'm in Richmond, actually, but it's close.

40:34BubblemanThat's not too far away. A couple hours.

40:37SpeakerYeah, totally. I like heading to the forest. One of my buds and I go for long runs every weekend. That's our ritual. Peak our endocannabinoid system.

40:47BubblemanYes, I was just going to say, as you were saying it in my mind, I was thinking, nice, nice, good way to activate the system. It sure makes you feel good.

40:57SpeakerI wanted to say, since we talked a little bit about exercise, activating the endocannabinoid system and just touched on it last week, I went deeper into the literature over the week and kind of teased out some of what actually is usable data so people could say, hey, if I want higher levels of anandamide, what do I actually have to do? And so, I found a few things that were interesting.

41:23SpeakerWe talked a little bit about how THC is fat-soluble, so when people smoke cannabis, it can be stored in their fat, and so when they do activities that can burn fat, this can release stored THC into the blood. And I found two studies about this that were pretty interesting. The first one, they just took some people, about 10 people, who were cannabis users, and they had them do exercise for about 30 minutes.

41:52SpeakerAnd they found a small but significant increase in serum levels of THC just from exercise. And so, but where I found this interesting, another study is this other group tried to Thank you so much for joining us.

42:28SpeakerOh my goodness, once these people did 30 minutes of exercise, their THC levels increased by 25%. So I thought it was kind of interesting just showing how even on some of these academic papers, you actually have to search within the paper to actually find the info because due to prohibition and other issues, even the researchers will downplay their results. It's not only that though, it's how you measure the THC.

42:55SpeakerOf course, of course. If I'm understanding correctly, what's stored in the fat is not THC. It's 11-norhydroxy, the inactive metabolite of THC. So if you test them for THC with the normal test, they'll test positive, but there's no active THC. Well, they're actually testing both forms, and they're finding changes in both, like the THC and the breakdown product. So, in both studies, they found actually higher levels of just THC.

43:26SpeakerSo, there's something more going on there. Yeah, that's really odd, because THC is not delivered to the bloodstream. So, how's it going to be delivered to the fat? I don't get it. I don't know the whole mechanism. I can show you the study and show you what they did. But the basis of the study was basically just showing that something that is metabolizing your fat stores is potentially altering serum levels of cannabinoids.

43:56SpeakerAnd you're right, it could be more breakdown products. That still needs to be teased out. But the other thing that exercise mostly does is it really boosts your serum and andamide levels. So your serum anandamide levels are, or anandamide as we know is the bliss molecule. So it's made as a breakdown product in our body from arachidonic acid, so N6 fatty acids. So if you're, make sure you're eating adequate fats to actually get enough anandamide.

44:25SpeakerBut there was five human studies, different like early trials showing different ways of doing exercise could boost your serum anandamide levels. And these various studies teased out different ways, like some were looking for like how long, like 60 minutes of intense exercise. Some were looking at how if you hike and change your elevation, does this boost more anandamide? But this final study that was just done in 2015, they looked at four different ways Thanks for watching.

45:15SpeakerWalking pretty much useless. No change in serum anandamide for 30 minutes or for 45 minutes. This was shown in two different trials. And even one trial they had people walking on a treadmill with a dog And then they also measured the serum levels in the dogs and showed that the dogs also got a boost in their serum anandamide when they were running. But interestingly when the dogs walked they actually had a drop in their serum anandamide.

45:42SpeakerSo I don't know if this was just in this particular study but run your dogs. That's the best way to help them get a boost in anandamide. Yeah, and then, so in humans, that's basically what's been shown is, so 30 minutes seems to be the best of moderate activity, seems to be the best amount of time to boost your serum levels of anandamide. And these researchers actually think that anandamide, this boost in anandamide from exercise is actually the reason why we get the runner's high, right?

46:15SpeakerYeah.

46:16JohnYou know, as you were talking, that's what I was thinking, that all this is doing is really scientifically breaking down. You know, I started martial arts when I was 12, so half hour into it, you start getting really into it. You do, your body starts releasing chemicals. It's interesting to think that it's connected to cannabis. I mean, the runner's high and all these different, anyone who exercises mountain bikes does anything and starts, you know, you start getting really into it.

46:40JohnYou know, ATN's an avid road biker. And, you know...

46:43SpeakerExercise also brings up your endomorphine levels, the natural morphine that your body produces. Yeah, but what's interesting about that... Could we start making the argument... I just want to say, what about endorphin? Sorry, go, go, go.

47:01JohnWell, you know, the argument I think we should start making is that it's a fundamental right to human existence because of the fact now that we can... Connect it to science. This isn't questionable anymore. Now we can see the endocannabinoid system. We can see how fundamentally important it is in almost every aspect of human So, you know, it's all about existence, you know, and how it's connected to every little thing we do.

47:23JohnYou can't even jog down the street without activating part of your endocannabinoid system. So what this is really telling me is that instead of denying us this plant, we should all have literally a fundamental human right of existence to be able to use it because for millions of years we could say we have co-evolved with it, and now its chemicals are that important to our health.

47:49SpeakerTo point, like to take that even further, there's this condition they call where you're addicted to exercise. And what's really interesting is exercise withdrawal has very similar symptoms to cannabis withdrawal in that you get depressed, you get moody, well and I mean this doesn't happen to anyone, but when they look at what happens with these athletes that they say are addicted to exercise, and what they mean by addicted to exercise is these people continue to exercise even when they're injured or Thank you for watching.

48:35SpeakerAnd they basically took these two groups and they deprived them from exercise for two weeks, so no exercise. And they found that the people who suffered from the exercise addiction had severe mood issues, sleep issues. Basically their endocannabinoid system wasn't working properly and they measured their serum levels of anandamide and they were really, really low. And this is in comparison to the exercise normal people, even though they didn't do any exercise for two weeks, their serum anandamide levels still stayed okay.

49:06SpeakerSo there seems to be this distinct population where Like cannabis, they respond very strongly to exercise, and their serum anandamide levels can be altered so intently from just exercise that when they don't get their exercise, they actually get depressed. So that's just going further about how we need our anandamide. We need these endocannabinoid systems to just work normal, and cannabis can trigger these systems.

49:37BubblemanThat was really interesting. That is very interesting. I wonder what the, what adrenaline plays in the role because as I am up here in Whistler, I find that the exercise that people are doing up here tends to be a little bit more extreme than the exercise people do just in everyday life. People are jumping off mountains and shredding up and down mountains and it's quite an incredible, right now it's actually Crankworx here in Whistler, and I think today, right now, in about 10 minutes, the Red Bull Joyride will start, which is all the top mountain bikers in the world going down and off these huge jumps, 40-foot gaps and double backflips and the whole nine yards.

50:18BubblemanI will go get some pictures later on, just at the end of it, because it is unbelievable to see what these humans can do on a bicycle, but What role is adrenaline playing in this? Because when I hear addicted to exercise, I've got to think some of these people are addicted to potentially that boost in the serum level with the combination of adrenaline. I don't know the science about it, but I've experienced it, and it feels really good.

50:44SpeakerYeah, and those things, they've shown that they are linked. I don't know if that's been exactly teased out, but the boost in adrenaline and the boost of anandamide are both causing benefits. But I also just want to go back to that point about the endorphins. So beta-endorphin, I think that's the right name of it, Those do play a role in mood elevation, but why they think it's anandamide actually causing the runner's high versus the beta-endorphins is that the endorphin molecules, apparently when they measure them in the blood, like the blood levels that are released, the molecule apparently is too large to actually cross the blood-brain barrier, whereas anandamide that can be released systemically can cross the blood-brain barrier.

51:27SpeakerPotentially a reason why anandamide is playing more of a role than the endorphins, specifically with exercise. But going back to what you were saying about what would happen with intense exercise or something where you're doing something really intense in a short amount of time. So that research hasn't been done in humans yet, but there is one study I found with rats, and they basically did a model where they have rats that they Thank you for watching.

52:09SpeakerAnd the rat stands up on its hind legs, so it's basically, imagine it preparing to do a squat. And then they use a small electrical current on the tail, and I guess the way the tail gently shocks the rat, it causes the rat to either drop or increase, and then it basically does a squat because it's attached to a weighted compound. So there's different ways this model can be done, but basically they're Getting rats to do squats.

52:38SpeakerSo with this model They can then do very specific amounts of exercise. So they did, I think it was 15 sets of 15 reps. So a few, like pumped those rats up pretty well. And they showed, I think it was a total amount of 7.5 minutes of exercise. And just from one set, they were able to significantly boost serum anandamide. So this is showing that perhaps quick, like bursts of exercise could give you a nice boost in anandamide.

53:08SpeakerAnd part of the reason why, like, I don't know, I know personally when I'm stressed or studying or something like I'll do like a jump, something really intense really quickly and I find that like within five minutes and just, you know, getting my sweat on, getting that like, I don't know, it's endorphins, anandamide, what it is, but I feel way better, my thinking's way better and I can write like way better.

53:28SpeakerSo personally I use those really intense quick bursts of exercise because I don't have time to do 30 minutes of exercise all the time. So... I think it would be really cool to do some further research and actually see what's going on there. I'd like to ask you a question.

53:44IndraGo ahead, John. The part you mentioned in there about applying electricity to their tail, I'm just wondering how much that has to do with some of the results. Because I suppose if I apply electricity to everybody's tail, I wonder what the level would be then. I'm just wondering.

54:06SpeakerThat's a great question, and I'll have to look closer into the study, but I believe they would have controlled for that. Normally when they do like an animal experiment, they'll have to, because just like you said, that alone may cause some effects. So they had a control experiment. I can't remember exactly how they did it, but they didn't show any, or sorry, they had a control rat group.

54:28SpeakerSo I'm guessing what they would have done is, what you're saying is given them a simulated shock that was similar to show if there was any change, but... I will go back through the study and verify because that is a really good question.

54:40IndraDuring the control work they did, could you look to see if they tested the rats at rest after giving them the shock to find out?

54:58SpeakerWell, they did, yeah, so that's how they did it. They did the initial test immediately before the exercise, and then they did it after the exercise. So, yeah, they had a pre and a post.

55:09IndraRight, but on rats at rest.

55:12SpeakerRats at rest.

55:13IndraI'm talking about the control group, the guys who aren't lifting weights, testing their levels before and then after the shock. I'm just wondering if the shock had anything to do with it, and I'm wondering if the control group was actually... Got enough of the right information from them to make that determination.

55:33SpeakerI'd like to add a point. I think the consensus here is everybody is just saying, okay, we're using this model, but what about the humans? How does it work? And I think it's all revolving here against adrenaline, anandamide, because obviously the electric shock would have to do with adrenaline. But one interesting thing, and Natasha, you mentioned that SNP last time in the FAH or F-A-H gene, which influences basically the anandamide level in people's brains because FAAH is the enzyme that degrades anandamide as well as THC and any cannabinoids in the brain.

56:03SpeakerAnd there's a variant which actually is kind of interesting. It brings two points. One of them is it was published in a journal called the Journal of Happiness Studies. So, you know, again, this is an alternative to kind of some of the new things. You see different, you know, disciplines that are coming out where we're looking at real, you know, things that are different than just standard where we think is like, you know, hardcore science.

56:23SpeakerWe look at it, you know, in academia. So it's an open platform, but what's interesting is they show that A allele, which is associated with FAH variant, which is less efficient, is positively correlated with happiness. So again, it's kind of something that we can look at these different things. Is it endorphins? I think they're all connected, and that's the one thing. We need to look at that and be like, here's a hypothesis.

56:50SpeakerNow we need to go either build a proper design and experiment to look at that, or even maybe do a bit of You know, you can go data mining and finding kind of the right data that will help you kind of answer these questions. And the animal model system are very important to do that. But again, there's, you know, a lot of that can be addressed with, you know, the human genome and some of the, you know, it's kind of interesting as we revolve around that we see that there's, It's not a causative thing, obviously, because right now we're observing and we're just basically coming down, but all these discussions we're having are all hypotheses that you can go out now, look at the data that's out there in the human genome and be able to maybe say, oh, we need to design an experiment here in a clinical setting that should be looking at that.

57:31SpeakerSo it helps target these very interesting questions that we're all asking and we're all saying there's got to be something else at work, and absolutely there is, and then there's going to be... I was going to say, you know, not just the brain enzymes, but the liver enzymes now. Imagine the complexity now when you look at the brain and then the liver enzymes that will affect the pharmacokinetics of the cannabinoids inside of the human in real life.

57:55JohnYou know, in a lot of levels, though, we should be wanting this on human subjects because cannabis is a dream to scientists because of its safety and effectivity. So it's not like you have to worry about people falling off, you know, because it's a bad pharmaceutical overdose. Cannabis has been proven safe. For so long, we should be learning this on us right now because we, you know, not to be rude, we're what's important.

58:19JohnI mean, rats are fine and dandy and fixing cancer in rats and figuring out everything in rats is nice. But humans, you know, I like my grandma and stuff like that. You know, I would like to take care of the people we love, you know, and we really need to start paying attention, I think, to this in human studies.

58:35BubblemanYou could potentially set her up with an electric voltage on her tail.

58:47BubblemanYou know, while Philippe was talking, I was just reminded of Terence McKenna and how he always believed, you know, the same way astronomers use telescopes and macro photographers use macro lenses, prosthetics to get us to places we can't go with our current senses. And Terence McKenna always talked about the importance of Psychedelics being used by intelligent people who were thinking the deep thoughts, not just philosophical thoughts, but data entry and type stuff as well.

59:21BubblemanAnd I wonder if any of you think that there's an importance in using that prosthetic of the mind to go not into getting high and out of control, but getting

59:35BubblemanGetting deep into thought and using that prosthetic on the mind that allows you to go a little further and deeper into some of these incredible concepts, in my opinion.

59:45IndraMark, why do you call it a prosthetic of life? I prefer to look at that as a key to understanding in our minds. People are always talking about how can marijuana be used to control pain? And I find that question utterly ridiculous because If you get high, you've invoked some of this happiness feelings. It's very difficult to feel happy and high and in pain at the same time.

1:00:15IndraThey balance each other out. I know I live with pain all the time. I've got two titanium cages in my back. I was shot right through the body in Vietnam in the front and out the back. And other things, I got part of a finger blown off, shot off at the same time I got belly shot. And still, all in all, when I wake up in the morning, I'm alive and I'm okay and I'm in pain, but I go and I roll that first Stuber up and I sit down and smoke it and a wave of pleasure washes over me.

1:00:48IndraAnd that wave of pleasure, as it is doing that, washes out some of the pain and upset and difficulty. And that's not too hard to understand. The part that is keeping us all divided is that there's a bunch of people who refuse to acknowledge or even look at the possibility that that might be the case. They want to see somebody put down some scientific evidence, and happy is very difficult to get into a test tube.

1:01:20SpeakerWell, what cannabis does to people is way beyond happiness, though, right?

1:01:28SpeakerAnd what Marcus was talking about there is those eureka moments, right? You can't really explain that and it's a mixture of, you know, we have parallels with exercise and these bliss and anandamide means the bliss-causing molecule, but cannabis and THC itself and perhaps even more, 11-hydroxy, which is way more psychoactive, will create these moments and these connections in your brains that These are seemingly unrelated, but when you smoke or when you ingest or whatever, use cannabis, now these things finally make sense and you've got this big eureka moment which psychologists have called it hyper-priming as kind of the mechanism by which our brain is able to put these things together.

1:02:10SpeakerAnd then we're talking about ways that we can change, exercise causes more anandamide, but there's recent research that shows basically that

1:02:21SpeakerThey've compared people that smoke daily, people that never smoke, and then they looked at the expression of CB1 receptors in the brain. So obviously this is something that would mediate a lot of these things we're talking about right now. And what's of interest is they found that after 48 hours, whether you were a daily smoker or whether you never smoked, you have the same levels of CB1 receptors in your brain, whereas if you're smoking every day, you actually have less CB1.

1:02:45SpeakerSo you're actually inhibiting the expression of CB1 receptors by using the substance every single day or very often. And obviously not everybody can afford or not everybody can take breaks because they require that on a single day. But 48 hours is really all you need. And this is something that I adjusted my behavior because of this paper that came out. And I read it and I was like, you know what?

1:03:07SpeakerI'm going to take a 48-hour break every single week. So that when I'm back on my, you know, Wednesday or Tuesday evening, whatever it is that I choose to take my two days off, now I get the full benefits and I get a, because that's really what I'm after. I'm after, you know, using cannabis as a cognitive enhancer. That's one way to do it, Philip. The other way is just smoke incredibly strong dry smoke.

1:03:29SpeakerI guarantee you, you never have less effects no matter what anybody else tells you.

1:03:35IndraIt's true. Wow. Exactly. Eight hours away from it is good enough for me, and then I wake up. Yeah.

1:03:43SpeakerAnd I want to put in another plug for exercise, because exercise can also modulate the activity of our CB1 receptor. But what's interesting about the CB1 receptor is, so there's CB1 receptor all over our body, and in our brain it has one effect, but also in our muscle it has another effect. So in the muscle... What the CB1 receptor plays a role in is it helps with insulin and fat metabolism.

1:04:12SpeakerSo it plays a role in obesity. And so I'm sure you guys remember the drug Ramonaban. That was a drug designed to block the CB1 receptor and was being used to treat obesity. A bad side effect was it caused depression. So it had mood issues. So what's interesting is With the CB1 receptor, ideally we want therapies if we're looking for, say, obesity treatments. We want therapies that can block the CB1 receptor in muscle and systemically, but we want it to boost it in our brain so then we still get the beneficial mood effects.

1:04:50SpeakerAnd exercise, it seems to be the magic thing that can do both these things because exercise reduces the CB1 receptor in muscle, so that's part of the reason that exercise helps with weight loss and keeping our body healthy. But in a rat study, and again, why do we have to do animal studies? Sometimes we have to do animal studies because we need to learn mechanism and we need to look at tissues and places that we can't really look at in a body.

1:05:18SpeakerSo for instance, in this rat study, they did exercise and then collected the brain and they looked at the CB1 receptor and found that it increased in the brain. So exercise seems to increase the CB1 receptor in the brain but reduce it in the muscle. So it's kind of having a modulatory effect that's beneficial overall.

1:05:36IndraHave they done any studies where they, since chimpanzees are so easily trainable and many places around the world chimpanzees can be seen in zoos smoking cigarettes, chimpanzees, a bunch of rolled joints is in order because the chimpanzees are most like us and I think if you show them how to smoke, we'll start to see some results that aren't Complicated with the kind of issues that human beings have when they get high, which is, i.e., completely changing their personality, some of them, others becoming talkative when before they were absolutely quiet.

1:06:14IndraAnd I'm just wondering, while you're looking around at the studies, I doubt that that's happened yet.

1:06:22SpeakerWell, they've done, unfortunately, research with monkeys, and so they have to do some of this work. So I know they've done some work with HIV-infected monkeys, but it's not HIV, it's the SIV, so it's the research form of HIV that infects this monkey model. And in this model, they have shown that smoking cannabis... Originally, when they first did this study, they were looking to show that smoking cannabis would make the monkeys with the HIV-like, SIV thing do worse, but they actually found that the monkeys had reduced viral load.

1:07:03SpeakerSo, yeah, so anyway, there is unfortunately some research being done in higher beings to show that cannabis is effective, but yeah, there's some ethics involved with that kind of research, of course.

1:07:17BubblemanIt is true though to a level where it's like what John says, right? It's like, hmm, there must be something to this. He should be dead. He's in extreme pain. He smokes a joint. He feels happy. I mean, as simple as that is, there's definitely something going on there.

1:07:34IndraExactly. I actually had last week one of the VA doctors look me right in the eye and say, I asked him, I said, how am I doing? How much more time have I got left or what do you figure is going on? And he looked at me and he says, you know, he says, to be perfectly frank with you, he says, I'm quite surprised you're sitting here now.

1:07:56IndraAnd I said to him, well, okay, what time do you leave today? And he said, in a few minutes at four. And I said, okay, I'll give you 15 minutes to get on the freeway before I get in my truck. That's hilarious. Just in case, you know, I'm going to have a heart attack or something. But I don't feel that way. I feel good. I smoke every day, and I attribute the intake of that.

1:08:22IndraI mean, I've tried all kinds of things. I've got giant bottles of hydrocodone that they gave me, but I couldn't take them. I even broke them into little pieces, and I'd just take a little piece of it, and I would always be, and I don't want that, and so I stopped it. And I smoke, and I smoke, and I smoke.

1:08:46JohnI find it interesting because when I was a little kid and I was going through physical therapy, I found it boring and I got into martial arts and yoga and smoking cannabis. It all seemed to work together so well, like keys that fit locks just perfectly, because I would smoke and I would meditate and I would just stretch and I would concentrate and focus on my muscles and trying to straighten them out.

1:09:12JohnAt the time I was a little kid and I was trying to walk and stuff and it was kind of heavy, but It really, really, really helped me to like stay in the whole, to stay in the whole mindset of let's exercise for a couple hours and slowly work on my body. Now chemically, I guess it's actually showing that when I started doing it and warming up, it actually, you know, in a sense I think that When you look at the endocannabinoid system, when you look at the cannabinoids that we are smoking, and the fact that they're kind of entertaining the keys in the same locks, and we're getting similar results in our body from unlocking these keys, and when we combine them together, it's almost like a guarantee to paths of calmness or joy or peace.

1:10:02JohnIf you smoke cannabis and do some mild exercise, I can see why it's such a huge part of the gym, as you talk, is what I guess is where it comes to mind. And I'm really excited to see more science come down the pike around this.

1:10:18IndraWell, everybody, you said you did yoga as a youngster, and I studied kundalini yoga for 13 years, and I found out a lot of very interesting things about it. They were, the early people... We're trying to understand how our bodies were keyed and they started noticing when they sit around and they're quiet that they would get in different states of mind and then somebody realized that breath had a lot to do with it so they started trying to regulate their breath but in those days they didn't exactly have watches or hourglasses or anything and so they chose sound and that's where chanting came in because if you chant different chants the sound Controls the breath.

1:11:06IndraAnd it adds to it the vibration of the sound. And so if you're chanting and you're controlling your breath, it causes changes in your body. I'd be interested in seeing someday how these different chemicals stack up during these kinds of meditations where you're using these very ancient techniques of controlling the breath and changing the vibration by chanting.

1:11:33JohnYou know, John, it's interesting you say that because in martial arts, the whole hee-haw and people screaming when they attack is really not about the sound. It's about the breathing. And I had a deaf instructor, so I didn't have to make any sounds because he was watching my breathing. And that was what was important. And it's interesting to me that those sounds they were making were, in fact, not about the sounds.

1:11:55JohnIt was about controlling their breath and the meditation. And that makes perfect, perfect sense to me. And when I was meditating, when my martial arts instructor taught me to meditate inwardly, to focus on my breath, then focus on my heartbeat, then focus on the flow of my blood, and just let myself kind of swim into myself, and that would be a really great state of bliss. And I used to do it with cannabis, and It's really chemically great.

1:12:21IndraYou know, breath is the nectar of life. And my teacher used to tell me that the two most important things in the body were breath and the saliva. And that the saliva was the true nectar of the body because it took care of everything that you put in your mouth. And it even changed its pH and other markers by the way you would breathe and I studied breath yoga for 14 years and became a practitioner of it.

1:12:51IndraAnd the breath is the most powerful and potent thing that you have in your body for healing. And I think that when you ingest the pot by whatever method you choose to ingest it, if you can control your breath, you can control your body. And if you can control your body, you can control your mind. Mind is a servant of the heart. You know, you let the mind off on its own and it comes up with all kinds of bad things.

1:13:22IndraSo, just run everything through the heart first. Sorry, John, I didn't mean to cut you off.

1:13:26SpeakerNo, that's okay. I learned a lot of this through sound therapy. It had a lot to do with breathing and vibration and stuff when I was going through all the different programs for my pain and stuff. And a lot of it had to do with sound and vibration. And they had a lot of breathing techniques I had to learn and stuff like that. I found it very interesting when we were talking in the beginning because I used to always smoke a little bit before all my therapy groups and stuff and it was really a key part of my recovery was using cannabis and when we get more into the sound and the breathing techniques it was all through all my programs and stuff like that so it was just listening to you guys talk quite a bit and it was such a huge part of my recovery and learning how to use cannabis for that and You know, the sound's very important, and I used to try to listen to these self-improvement tapes when I was younger, and what I discovered about them was the people who make the tapes might have a voice that pisses you off completely, and so therefore rendering the tape

1:14:40IndraSo what I did was I made self-improvement tapes myself because who do you listen to in your mind all the time? You listen to yourself. And so yourself is your greatest proponent. It can be your greatest enemy too obviously. But I started making these tapes using a similar dialogue but in my voice and sticking it under the pillow. And I found it to be very helpful. It was another I saw your videos on YouTube on the freezer and all that.

1:15:11IndraWas that you?

1:15:13SpeakerYeah. Yeah. I had fun.

1:15:36SpeakerDefinitely, we'll definitely talk. Okay. Give me a message right here in the chat.

1:15:40IndraAll right, I'm going to shut up now.

1:15:45SpeakerNo, we want to hear you talk, John. No, and that's really interesting what you're saying about music healing and those types of things. I'll look up some info for even a future episode because there actually is some science behind sound therapy. Most of the work, unfortunately, has been done in animals. But there's even some evidence to show certain sound vibrations can actually influence the way your immune system responds.

1:16:13SpeakerSo it can actually reduce inflammation, which... Thank you for joining us.

1:16:34SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:16:58SpeakerThere's been two human studies looking at massage and tight touch for reducing serum anandamide. And there was a study by John McPartland in, what year did he do it? 2005. And they did one treatment with osteopathic manipulation, so more like bone type manipulation. And after one treatment, they found serum and andamide levels were increased by 168% over baseline. So a massive boost in serum and andamide when their spine was being manipulated.

1:17:30SpeakerAnd I'm wondering with really deep breathing, that's even how some people, and I've personally experienced it, when you're trying to meditate and sitting up straight, and you take a really nice, full, deep breath, and you feel like your spine almost cracking into place. So I'm wondering if even with that deep breath, it's like, Thank you.

1:18:16IndraOne part of your question. In addition to studying breathing for many, many years, I did soft tissue work on people for many, many years and retired DO. But anyway, one of the things I noticed was that if people are laying down and they take a breath and you look at their rib cage and their abdomen, it should flow like an ocean wave flowing from the abdomen up and then the chest And the reason that the level was increased in those people who were doing that kind of breathing is because all of the ribs articulate with the spine as you take a deep breath.

1:18:55IndraAnd as the diaphragm pushes it up, it spreads the bottom of the rib cage out, and then it makes room for the lungs. When that happens, when that mechanism is fully engaged, That's what will happen. You'll see what looks like a wave. If it's not engaged and you tell them to take a breath, you'll see the ribcage go up and down and not the abdomen. And people who are under severe stress all the time, when you ask them to take a deep breath, their abdominal area will fill up first, and they'll fill very little of the chest area up.

1:19:24IndraAnd this is all because the emotions are totally connected to how you can or cannot breathe. And if you can't take a breath, you're in trouble Stage one. If you can't get a full breath that your diaphragm fills up and the lungs fill up, then you're going to be suffering from some problems. And I've taught breathing for 30 years, and I've done manipulation for 35 years on it.

1:19:52IndraAnd I can tell you unequivocally, without any doubt whatsoever in my mind, that it is all completely connected.

1:20:03Etienne FontanWell, I would go to speak to what Natasha was talking about regarding music. I mean, without a doubt, music and cannabis are two of my biggest mood alters. I mean, I can change my mood immediately with the right song, the right movement, you know. And it can be anything from the heaviest of metals to something as sweet as Mozart. You know, but whatever it is in the moment, I can find the right music to just really put me in the right mindset, the mood, and I know it affects my breathing, I know it affects my heart rate.

1:20:36Etienne FontanI used it even when I was in combat. I even had soundtracks for combat, you know, just to get myself ready to have to do what I had to do. You know, you have to... I've used music all throughout my life to alter or manipulate my mindset, usually to change it or alter it to the positive, and it's always been That those vibrations internally give me that harmony along with cannabis that I can't explain and it warms my heart to hear science actually looking at this and backing it up and saying what I've been actually feeling and experiencing that actually save change and motivate me every single fucking day.

1:21:16Etienne FontanSo I mean these are Key components of life. So I've seen music change and alter people. You know, I can go to a Lamb of God concert and, you know, most people can't even stand it. But for me, it is so relaxing and so cathartic, so relaxing. Go to a Tool concert. For me, it's so relaxing. But for some people, they couldn't even handle it. So it's all about what we can access within ourselves, what works for us, because what works for me won't work for you.

1:21:46Etienne FontanI know.

1:21:48SpeakerAnd on that note.

1:21:49IndraCincinnati Zoo plays Beethoven for the monkeys every night. And they calm down.

1:21:55BubblemanAnd on that note, it is the Dry Sift General's birthday today. D420K, happy birthday, dude. Happy birthday, dude.

1:22:04Etienne FontanHappy birthday, D. Bong rip.

1:22:09BubblemanBong rip.

1:22:11Etienne FontanBong rip.

1:22:11BubblemanBong rip. Bong rip.

1:22:18BubblemanSomeone have a radio on in the background? Long rip, mother lovers. Long rip, mother lovers. 888 viewers watching you stimulate your endocannabinoid system right now.

1:22:33Etienne FontanWell, that's awesome, Deez. So you're Leo or Virgo? Leo. Because my birthday is next Sunday. I'm a Virgo, so we'll see.

1:22:44SpeakerI'm right on the cusp. I think the 22nd is the change or the 23rd is from Leo to Virgo. But yeah, 46 years young today. Fucking loving it, man. Feel good. Feel like I'm 20 still. All my grandkids and I've got another, I've got a number 11. Another grandbaby on the way. My youngest granddaughter came into the house last time I was home with a big sister shirt on.

1:23:12SpeakerI looked at it. I looked at my daughter. I was like, what? Another baby coming. Another grandchild. Number 11 is on the way. And I'm going to call this grandchild 11. That's it. It's going to be named 11 from me. You are number 11.

1:23:29BubblemanVery good. And how appropriate. Now, there's a TV show called Stranger Days or something, and there's a character called Eleven, and it's a girl.

1:23:39SpeakerOh, cool. Well, I do believe, I will predict that this grandbaby is going to be a boy.

1:23:46BubblemanAll right. We'll check it out. Congratulations, dude.

1:23:50SpeakerThank you. Thanks for the happy birthday wishes, everybody.

1:23:53BubblemanOh, my God. How about this Congolese rosin?

1:24:01Etienne FontanDamn, son, that's pretty.

1:24:05BubblemanOh, my God. Oh, it kind of looks like a dude. Anyone else notice that?

1:24:10SpeakerRed Congolese or green Congolese?

1:24:15BubblemanWell, I'm guessing it's the verde.

1:24:20Etienne FontanYeah, we see more of the verde out here. We don't really see the green.

1:24:28BubblemanWe got one Congo that came to BC years ago through Le Mano Negra via Reefer Man, I believe. It got traded out, held on to pretty tightly for quite a while, then shared, and people are making some really beautiful product out of it. It's got a nice exotic flavor, very similar to that red Congolese terpene.

1:24:52BubblemanIt's good.

1:24:59BubblemanQuiet moment? A quiet moment in church.

1:25:02Etienne FontanWrong, rip then.

1:25:05BubblemanJust did that.

1:25:08SpeakerI guess if it's a quiet moment, I'm going to have to bid you guys farewell because I have to go to a seven-year-old birthday party. Nice. So I have to go celebrate some more with others.

1:25:22SpeakerBut yeah, thanks so much for like all the, you know, this discussion was pretty amazing and every episode just kind of, you know, keeps on like going deeper into all these great things that we all have common interest in. So, forward to further discussions with all of you in the future.

1:25:39Etienne FontanThank you, Philippe. We welcome you anytime. We can't thank you enough for sharing your information with us today.

1:25:46SpeakerYes. Awesome. Thank you, guys.

1:25:52SpeakerYeah, and enjoy the rest of every time.

1:25:56BubblemanYeah, thanks for coming on, Philippe. Much appreciated. We'll have to have you come share some information again one day.

1:26:02SpeakerBeauty, thank you. Yeah, I would love to.

1:26:04BubblemanEnjoy the birthday party. Enjoy this lovely day. We just popped 900 there for a second.

1:26:11SpeakerPeace, guys. Thanks a lot. Peace. Thanks, Philippe.

1:26:16BubblemanInteresting information. Well, what do we got, John? We got... Three days. Three more days in Canada before it... Do you think doctors are going to be busy on that day?

1:26:30SpeakerI think we're going to have a lot of new clinics popping up and a lot of doctors writing prescriptions and taking a look at all of these... Like I said, a million... I talked with Jason about it the other day. A million people are going to be able to get a license here pretty quick.

1:26:46BubblemanYeah, but do you think that people are going to pull this same shady thing about charging money to get your license signed? Because, I mean, that's kind of...

1:26:55SpeakerPretty much, that's what these clinics are.

1:26:57BubblemanWouldn't a doctor go to jail if they did that for oxycodone or any other drug? You know what?

1:27:04IndraSadly, no.

1:27:06BubblemanSadly, no. They can just take money for prescriptions.

1:27:13IndraYou know how many physicians are busted every day in the United States for selling prescriptions for mostly narcotic drugs? Lots and lots and lots. It's disturbing how many do.

1:27:36SpeakerNo, it's interesting with all these new changes that are coming into play that we're just kind of hearing about and stuff like that. We may have mentioned how some of these new testing facilities that were in Canada, like Wagon Wheel, they've now shut down. Letters are being given out. I know people from Moda got a letter from the RCMP yesterday to stop selling fake goods and stuff like that.

1:27:56SpeakerSo it's like we're getting more of this clamp down right now. It's kind of a little interesting how the whole system is going to play out, but... What we're hearing is two DGs per facility, which means up to eight licenses. We might see square footage. We don't even know what's going to happen, so we're just kind of like, we can grow. That's the most important part.

1:28:20JohnDo you all think that soon there'll be a point where we're overgrowing the demand? So many people, you know, the cannabis world has existed on a few growing for the many. And now we're going to have a shift where the many can grow for the many and there's going to be a whole lot of weed out there.

1:28:40BubblemanThe few back then were nothing compared to everyone who realizes they have an endocannabinoid system and being able to use phytocannabinoids.

1:28:51JohnThey did.

1:28:52BubblemanThat's a lot.

1:28:53JohnYou just feel like that it's all going to blow up, that the use of cannabis is going to go through the roof.

1:29:00BubblemanI think that once it's finally over the hump of being accepted, maybe potentially it will crush the system that's been against it for so long. Maybe it's the only way cannabis will ever thrive, by literally crushing the prohibition system that's been trying to

1:29:17JohnI see a flip. I see foods that will say fortified with vitamins, minerals, and cannabinoids. Yeah. I don't see why not, especially active cannabinoids that don't get you high. That's what I'm saying.

1:29:32IndraIt just seems like they're pretty essential. Well, I think in America, the people that are going to cross the line with it are the veterans. The veterans are demanding it. They want to use it for PTSD. There's seven GOP senators who keep pulling it off the table, but the veterans are organizing voting and they're going to vote these people who are obstructing all the time out of the way.

1:29:59IndraBut once the veterans get it okayed in VA hospitals, it doesn't make a damn what the DEA says because that's going to force the DEA to reschedule it. And I see that as our Panacea. I know I'm as active as can be in that. I'm writing those people letters every day and trying to educate them whether or not they read them or use them for AW, I don't know.

1:30:26IndraBut I try. And I think that once we can get past that, and as for growing more than can be used, I doubt that could ever happen under any circumstances. Because you're going to have people who grow crap, you're going to have people who grow middle class, and you're going to have people who grow top shelf. And the top shelf stuff is always going to draw the high buck, and especially concentrates from the top shelf.

1:30:58IndraI know a lot of people make their concentrates from trim, and we don't believe in that. We have only the best buds to make them from.

1:31:06SpeakerAnd John, why do you think that it will never be enough? Don't you think it's pretty easy to produce more than enough of the very best?

1:31:17IndraWell, I think anything's possible, but I think if it was deregulated and made legal, there would be a shitload more people using it. And I think we'd be back to the there's not enough being produced thing for quite a while. I mean, look, they've been growing corn for a long time and it didn't happen to corn.

1:31:43SpeakerWhat didn't happen to corn?

1:31:45IndraThey didn't grow more than they could use.

1:31:48SpeakerNo, that's because they know how much the market wants and they don't grow more than they can use on purpose. With cannabis, nobody's really sure yet, especially whether it's going to be an herbal product or an extract. There's a big difference. I mean, for dry sip, you need, you know, a hundred times as much as you would herb.

1:32:09JohnYeah, don't get me wrong, John. I think that the market is going to explode, you know, but right now with looking at what's happening in Canada and You know, legal producers are already feeling the pinch of us self-producing cannabis. So, you know, this is, you know, shows and shows ago we were talking about the LPs in Canada, you know, supposedly coming down on the Toronto police to go and bust the clubs because Cutting into their sales.

1:32:36JohnAnd I think that the market is limited right now. Until we get it in every store, every grocery store, every health food store, until it's at farmers markets, it's treated just like tomatoes or whatever, I think that it's going to be an interesting market to watch emerge. But I think someday, very soon, it'll be in all the places I just mentioned.

1:32:58SpeakerI figured it out one time. 50 square miles or 60 square miles at the most is enough to grow enough cannabis to supply everybody in California. Or was it the world? Or America? I forget. It's surprising me a small amount. And I'm not talking just cannabis. I'm talking extracts or whatever.

1:33:27IndraWell, if you're talking 60 miles, I think it should be 61 because I think I can go through a mile's worth of stuff a year.

1:33:39BubblemanGo through a mile's worth. Give me a mile.

1:33:42IndraYeah, I want a mile, please. You know, I think it could happen.

1:33:45SpeakerYou could easily get 10 per acre. A square mile, I'd have to do the math again.

1:33:53JohnIt's about 500 acres, and I don't know, I would need a lot more pots.

1:33:59IndraWell, I do a lot of things with it, you know. I make it into the temple balls, and that burns up quite a bit of material. And in addition to that, there's the concentrates, and then the flowers themselves. And if you do it for a lot of people, like in a cooperative situation, you'd be amazed at how much material. Maybe you wouldn't, but A lot of people would be amazed at how much material it takes to do certain things in a certain way.

1:34:30SpeakerI would be amazed at some things, but I would not be amazed at how little cannabis is really required to supply all of California. It's really just not a big area.

1:34:53IndraI just don't know anybody up here besides the people that run the little podunk stores and stuff that isn't doing that. I mean, people all over town and you see, you drive down the center of town and you see hippies all over standing there with signs going, we want trim work. And, you know, it's the most common site in Garberville. You know, 20, 30 people on the street looking for workers.

1:35:25SpeakerI'm talking central or southern California or someplace where it's flat and you use tractors and you do 1,000 acres at a time. Oh, yeah.

1:35:37IndraSouthern California is a great place for it. I grew in high desert there once and we grew some amazing plants. I agree. You know, it just depends. I've smoked southern California pot, northern California pot. I smoke Vietnamese pot, Thai. I smoke Indian pot. You know, it's all different. It all has its own, even though they might be calling it the same or claim it's the same strain, it all has its own special thing to it.

1:36:04IndraAnd it's all about how it's grown, where it's grown, what level, what height.

1:36:10JohnThe nice thing to say is that I love it all, too.

1:36:13SpeakerEven more important is the cannabinoid and terpene profile and the malice. Then, of course, you want it grown in the best conditions.

1:36:23IndraI agree.

1:36:25SpeakerWell, let's do it. Oh, we are. I just happen to have two tons of seeds, so if we want to... Come closer to your... Are you having problems? Come closer to your bed.

1:36:44Etienne FontanYeah, you keep breaking up, Sam. You're very choppy.

1:36:48SpeakerI'm going to restart my thing. That's what happens. Okay.

1:36:53BubblemanHe will be back. 904 people watching Hash Church 100, checking it out, seeing what we're yammering on about, enjoying some nice rosin dabs and some bubble dabs and some dry sift dabs and some oil dabs and whatever it is you're enjoying. I hope everyone's having a good Sunday afternoon. Morning here still, 1037 in Whistler, D.C. Forty minutes ago they started that joyride. I'm sure that it's probably pretty crazy.

1:37:22BubblemanDefinitely not sure what's going on there.

1:37:24IndraMark, I would just like to say one or two things about the liquid nitrogen and the use of it. Sure. The method that I spoke about Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:38:04IndraIt won't hurt you because it'll actually evaporate before it touches your skin. But if you get it in a spot like inside your shoe or inside your sock or something like that, beautiful, it's going to harm you. And it'll give you instantaneous worst frostbite you ever had in your life. And what I'm hoping is that if you're handling it, you're using a big set of insulated gloves, Number one.

1:38:34IndraNumber two. You're not doing it in an enclosed room. Because liquid nitrogen expands 300 times its volume. And if you get a breath of pure nitrogen in your lungs, you're going to suffocate. Because nitrogen molecules are larger than oxygen molecules. And you can't breathe them back out if you get too much in your lungs. So it's very dangerous. To people who may not understand it or know these facts about it, you want to do it in a really, really well-ventilated area, or better yet, go outside on your porch and do it.

1:39:08IndraBecause getting enough of that pure nitrogen in your lungs will give you some bad things. The divers call it nitrogen narcosis, I guess. It's easily gotten if you're not careful doing this. So I just want to say to everybody who has decided to give that a try to be very careful and don't do it in a room where there's no complete changing of the air. Yeah, it's best to do it outside, especially for the uninitiated.

1:39:50IndraDon't think that it won't hurt you. Because there's ways that it can hurt you. And don't fool yourself into believing that the way you're doing it is safe. Go outside and do it. And I don't want to have heartache of hearing that somebody suffocated in the room the same way I had to suffer from when I put out the BHO technique back in 1999. I don't want to hear another thing like that because it's very hard for me to deal with that kind of stuff.

1:40:22IndraSo I implore anybody who's trying it, if you're listening, to be very, very careful doing it and do it outside. So I hope that that warning doesn't go unheeded. I gave a lot of warnings after I gave out the BHO thing, and there's still been hundreds and hundreds of fires and explosions. So if everybody would just please do me a favor and not Trick yourself into suffocating yourself.

1:40:53IndraRight on, John.

1:40:54JohnHey, John, have you ever met, can I say hello to Fred Gardner? Fred, thank you for joining us. Hello, buddy. Hey, Todd. Hi, buddy. As you don't know, Fred Gardner is the editor of O'Shaughnessy's. He put together a medical magazine, if you will, a newspaper that was intended for medical professionals. He was really trying to educate the doctors as to what was going on around them with the science.

1:41:21JohnAm I correct, Fred?

1:41:23SpeakerYes, and the doctors were sharing it with their patients because Todd McCorea, who really He founded it and asked me to co-found it. Wanted to pay back. He said everything the doctors have learned about cannabis, including himself, had come mainly from patients. So it was kind of payback for the patients that the pro-cannabis specialists would have a paper to bring what they were learning back to the patients.

1:41:53IndraI think it's time we stopped ignoring anecdotal evidence.

1:41:57SpeakerYes, that was... Todd had written a paper called Cannabis as a Substitute for Alcohol in which he had documented 92 patients using it mainly for disinhibition to replace alcohol when they, that was their basic medical need. And he didn't, Todd didn't want to go through the rigmarole of a peer review process which he knew was rigged We had a lot of people who were against him and he just wanted to publish his findings, would not wait two years and get insulted by the addiction specialists who he knew would ultimately turn it down.

1:42:43SpeakerSo we went ahead and published that and then he did a paper on PTSD and he really understood how cannabis worked and he was a great doctor and I doubt that these papers will ever be Improved on in a way because as Todd used to say, neither cannabis nor human physiology have changed over thousands of years. So I think he really wrote the classic papers on those subjects.

1:43:12IndraCould I ask you to send those papers to the top army doc? Who just announced online a few days ago that he was leery about using marijuana to treat PTSD. I would love to get those papers to him because I myself have written him on a number of occasions. His main excuse was that marijuana is harmful on a developing brain. And I pointed out to him that the harm on the developing brain was done when these 18-year-old boys went into combat.

1:43:45IndraAnd now that they're back, it's a They want to use the pot to try to ease the damage that was done by going into combat.

1:43:55SpeakerYeah, well, there's now an actual clinical trial going on in Arizona and colleagues at Johns Hopkins and in Colorado are actually going to prove by scientifically acceptable clinical trial procedures that PTSD is alleviated. By cannabis use. The anecdotal evidence of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people doesn't count as the truth.

1:44:26Etienne FontanNo, and that's one of the things that Todd, you know, Dr. Todd taught me early on, because when I showed up, literally my first can meeting in 93, it was Dr. Todd Macario with his book, and his...

1:44:41Etienne FontanHe was the first doctor or clinician that actually embraced that I was a combat veteran and that I was using it for PTSD and that since there was no documentation on Gulf War Syndrome, he wanted to document and he immediately just took out pieces of paper and just started documenting everything and wanted to do studies. And so we were very proud to carry on Dr. Todd's legacy.

1:45:04Etienne FontanWe have a little tradition at Berkeley Patients Group when Dr. Ryman did her study on alcohol and cannabis usage which was also replicated by Philippe and them up in Canada. So to just further back up his study that basically said how people were using cannabis as a substitute for alcohol or as we're finding out of course for pharmaceutical usage on top of that. But I want to say my own personal thanks to you, Fred, for your many years of dedication who have helped us educate.

1:45:43Etienne FontanYou may shine that off, but I can give a patient an O'Shaughnessy and I can give it to somebody who's questioning or a legislator and show them real data and real information that is something that they cannot deny. So I thank you for being a perpetuator of truth and knowledge and And consistent integrity throughout, which very few have maintained throughout the decades of our movement. But you have been a beacon, so thank you.

1:46:12SpeakerDon't make me blush, ATN. Before we get off the subject of Todd, I just want to say I watched a video last night of Daniele Piemelli, the scientist from UC Irvine, who's been very active recently. And he was testifying before a congressional committee, Senate committee, And he said, until 1937, we didn't know anything about cannabis. And Todd McArea was not only a doctor, but he was a historian and a scholar.

1:46:44SpeakerAnd he compiled this wonderful book called Marijuana Medical Papers, which was an anthology of the pre-prohibition literature. So when somebody says, we didn't know anything about it before 1937, that's not true. It might be true for a pharmacologist. That the understanding was simplistic. But in terms of clinical effects, plenty was known. And plenty had been published in medical journals and scientific journals. And Todd documented that. Yeah, some of them were 100 years old, Fred, in Indian places.

1:47:19SpeakerMm-hmm.

1:47:24Etienne FontanAnd he brought them to light. I mean, that book, when he held that book in his hand and showed me the original, it was just a standard green with the drawing on the front. I mean, it changed my life. It changed my world because I had been thrown out of the VA for even discussing medical cannabis and my usage with my Gulf War Syndrome, PTSD, et cetera, and was, like I said, physically removed.

1:47:48Etienne FontanSo to actually have a former VA doctor actually have Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:48:22Etienne FontanIn Berkeley, cannabis. So when he found that people were still being busted, he started Be Cool and then started holding the police accountable for their arrest by taking their data and showing them, saying, hey, look, here's your data that you're busting people for cannabis. You shouldn't be doing it. Stop.

1:48:39SpeakerWhat book did you think? I was holding up the book that ATN referred to, Todd's anthology, Marijuana Medical Papers. I've I'm talking to one of Todd's sons about getting it reissued or available on demand. It should be digital.

1:49:01Etienne FontanIt should be digitalized so people have that digital access to it, too.

1:49:05JohnIt's a compendium of all the information that Dr. McCorea could put together between, I think it's 1839 and 1972.

1:49:13SpeakerYes, exactly. And it starts with William Brooke O'Shaughnessy on the preparation of the Indian Hamper Gunja, which, of course, O'Shaughnessy was Todd's hero. He was this Irish-born, Scottish-educated MD who, as a brilliant young doctor, had made some discoveries about the cholera epidemic. And then the British East India Company assigned him to Calcutta, and he watched the Indian doctors. Do things that Western medicine couldn't do. They used cannabis to ease the horrors of tetanus and hydrophobia.

1:49:50SpeakerIt was an obvious anticonvulsant. They knew it was an anticonvulsant, even then. And in those days, doctors not only experimented with animals, but they experimented on themselves. So O'Shaughnessy himself used these alcohol extracts and understood how benign they were and how effective they were. And in 1843, a paper he originally published in Calcutta got picked up by a British journal, and that was it. That was the start of Western medicine, understanding cannabis was real medicine.

1:50:31IndraAs I see it, the problem is we don't give credence to anecdotal evidence. However, doctors, in their practice, must... Only collect anecdotal evidence from your patients. So it's a real conundrum about what the hell is going on. You don't want to accept anecdotal evidence, and here's a practice based on anecdotal evidence.

1:50:55Etienne FontanIt's a catch-22 that we were talking about earlier. It's like we're doing studies on rats, but we should be doing studies on humans. But we have to do studies on rats to find out that it's safe for humans. So it's this cycle.

1:51:12SpeakerI just want to point out that there's other reasons, unfortunately, that we have to do experiments on animals. And it isn't just to determine safety. A lot of the time it's to determine mechanism. And what I mean by mechanism is how is it actually working. Because if we can understand mechanism and why we can do this in animals and we can't do this in humans... Thank you for joining us today.

1:51:57SpeakerThank you.

1:52:17SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:52:35SpeakerMore like where the pathways are, what the things are. So there's different reasons why we need different types of research. And unfortunately it's slow, but we need to put together all of this stuff when we're designing stuff that can be used consistently in patients. And this is different than just safety, right? So I agree with you. The stuff in the animal models with safety with cannabis, it's getting frustrating because we know it's safe, has a long history of safe and effective use, but we still need some of these basic experiments to know exactly what pathways so that we can make these things work better.

1:53:11SpeakerThe mice and rats that you were mentioning that don't have receptors that have been engineered that way, They also don't suckle when they all die. Sorry, repeat that?

1:53:26IndraBetter start your thing again, Sam.

1:53:29SpeakerOh, really? It's not working? They don't suckle. Oh, they don't suckle, yes. Yes, you're right. It's not just the knockout mice that the scientists take advantage of. It's the, they can also, as they put it, sacrifice the mice and cut into their Thanks for watching.

1:54:11SpeakerYeah, and unfortunately with the restrictions on research, animal work is one of the things that researchers have been able to do. So, again, looking in the literature, if my background in animal training... When I joined the ICRS 25 years ago, we called them piss testers. Yeah, well, the research is evolving.

1:54:34IndraMm-hmm. Well, when a rat asks me for a joint, I think then it'll be okay to test rats for marijuana.

1:54:44IndraOh, yeah. That's never happened, John?

1:54:46SpeakerNo story of... That's never happened? I'm surprised.

1:54:49IndraNever had a rat ask me for... Well, I've had a couple of human rats. Oh, those are the worst. I quit frequenting those neighborhoods years ago.

1:55:02BubblemanAh, yes. You learn with age.

1:55:06IndraOr you don't age.

1:55:08BubblemanOr you don't age.

1:55:12IndraDid you say you wish you did?

1:55:15SpeakerI wish I learned more with age. I think sometimes you just need a more sophisticated kind of rap.

1:55:23IndraYeah, well, you may not learn more by age, but you wise up. Some things.

1:55:33Etienne FontanSo what is O'Shaughnessy's up to nowadays, Fred?

1:55:37SpeakerWell, we're putting out the next issue, which will have the lead story on the opioid epidemic and the role of cannabis to mitigate that. And then there's a big story that Cannabis Clinicians, the doctor's group that Todd founded, which is now led by Dr. Jeffrey Hergen, rather, and has 260 members. They're opposing these algorithms by which state medical boards are starting to go after pro-cannabis doctors. I don't know if you followed the news from Colorado last week, but four MDs have had their licenses suspended based on how many patients they were approving and how many plants they were approving.

1:56:28SpeakerFor those patients.

1:56:29Etienne FontanWas that by the Colorado's physicians oversight or is that by the federal?

1:56:35SpeakerIt was by the, strictly Colorado, by the medical board. But the, there's an, every state medical board belongs to a national federation called the Federation of State Medical Boards. And this Federation of State Medical Boards, which nobody's ever heard, this is going to be in the next O'Shaughnessy, nobody's ever heard of them. But they have a powerful lobby in Washington, and in the 90s, the Federation of State Medical Boards pushed guidelines on the member states that they'd be more lenient in the prescribing of opioids.

1:57:12SpeakerThis is when Johnson and Duragesic was coming in, and Oxycodone, and Percocet. When the synthetic opioids were coming in, they were pushing more lenient guidelines for Doctors prescribed them. And this same outfit is now pushing more restrictive guidelines on cannabis clinicians so that if you approve 75 plants for however many patients in Colorado, you're automatically suspended. And California and all the other states are about to consider adopting these guidelines.

1:57:52SpeakerSo the pro-cannabis doctors in California who are well organized I went before the medical board to protest, and we're writing about that effort to stop these algorithms that trigger investigations. And I don't know if people think, well, if you get investigated and you're playing by the rules, that's not a problem. You have to understand the investigation itself is very costly. You have to get a lawyer. They send in undercover agents with fake histories.

1:58:27SpeakerThey try to get you. To be investigated by the medical board is a drag and an expense for the doctors. We're trying to cut that off at the pass.

1:58:39Etienne FontanSo there's challenges still afoot.

1:58:42SpeakerWe have another interesting story about the NFL football. In the 70s, a lot of NFL players were smoking pop. And it wasn't until 82 that the league started testing for marijuana, that banned marijuana. So you have all these players from the 70s who used, or you have some players from the 70s who used marijuana, and one of those players is getting in touch with his pot-smoking vets, and we're going to try to do kind of an article about Are the pot using players in better shape today in terms of concussion and chronic traumatic encephalitis and the Alzheimer's, the various dementia problems that some of these players have had?

1:59:31SpeakerIn other words, we're trying to get some anecdotal evidence to the effect that there was a neuroprotective effect because that's what the players themselves believe. And so we're trying to, some of the players are looking into that for us. And if we get a good story, Maybe that could lead to a study down the line, but we're starting with journalism.

1:59:55Etienne FontanThat's great, man. That is definitely a way to take things in an area that needs to be explored. Yeah, kudos.

2:00:07SpeakerThanks for asking.

2:00:11BubblemanAll right, yeah, that's very interesting indeed. It's nice to see these different studies. Getting looked at. I mean, that's a big one. That CTE is, that's major. They're saying they're finding it in a huge percentage of NFL players, too.

2:00:26Etienne FontanWell, if you can find a causation between the neuroprotectant and those older players, Then it gives great credence to the current activism that, you know, cost that Baltimore Ravens player his job, you know, for putting his money where his mouth is, but, you know, also speaking out on the issue, whereas you've got, you know, Kyle Turley and Ricky Williams now, formerly of Minority Saints, who are also, you know, patient advocates themselves, but they're using their anecdotals, so this could, you know, could be a causating link to, you know, Would have to at least invoke some sort of studies if I couldn't see why the NFL itself wouldn't be interested in paying for it.

2:01:07Etienne FontanThey're a multi-billion dollar corporation, so it's in their best interest to find something that protects their quote-unquote investment.

2:01:15BubblemanIt is scary how much they fought the acknowledgement of CTE, though, for so long. I don't know the whole history, obviously, but I bet you they put a lot of fight into that one.

2:01:25SpeakerIf anybody hasn't seen the movie Concussion, you really ought to.

2:01:30BubblemanIs that a pretty accurate description of what was going on? Yeah, terrific. Yeah, I saw it myself. That's, you know, most of my knowledge comes from that movie, in fact. And then, of course, you research the guy, right? There's key scenes where you're like, I've got to find out who this guy was because this is just insane. He's got degrees coming out the yin-yang.

2:01:49SpeakerYou mean the doctor that Will Smith played? Yeah. He's practicing in Bakersfield. We're going to try to get in touch with him.

2:01:57BubblemanWow. Yeah, that's great. Seems like he'd be a good person to get in touch with, the guy that basically named the disease, or is it considered a disease? What is it considered exactly, CTE?

2:02:09SpeakerYeah, a disorder, a degenerative condition.

2:02:14Etienne FontanRight, okay. Yeah, a neuron disease, you know, because the protectant's gone, it just degenerates, or it doesn't even connect.

2:02:26SpeakerYeah, that's scary.

2:02:30BubblemanPretty scary when you think of that as your job. And I mean, sure, people do a lot of different things for money, but at least you should know that this is a possibility.

2:02:40SpeakerI'll tell you an interesting thing we've learned in our researching this story. There's what they call a confounding, what the scientists would call a confounding factor, meaning it messes up your study. And the confounding factor is that the players who use pot tended to be more mindful about You know, spearing, leading with your head and playing like an asshole. They showed more restraint in the way they played the game.

2:03:11SpeakerSo somebody looking at it in the rigorous scientific sense would say, well, you can't compare these players with the ones who didn't use putt because they didn't hit as hard or they didn't lead with their head as much. But we're going to do the story anyway, and I think that synergy between being more mindful about how you hit and using marijuana is not to be dismissed as a confounding factor, but to be considered as kind of an entourage aspect of using pot, that it makes you more instinctively human and not only self-protective, but even kinder.

2:03:55BubblemanYeah, wasn't there a general that said he didn't want his soldiers smoking cannabis because it took away their intent to kill?

2:04:03IndraSounds right. Well, don't you think that what we're talking about is level of consciousness? Because there's been a few times when I tried a cactus, and once I got to the level of openness that the cactus brought me to, I was walking on a path and I noticed that I didn't even want to kick any pebbles out of the way because everything was in its place and who was I to alter it.

2:04:33IndraSo I very gently went through life that night and did a lot of things like that that told me that my level of consciousness had changed and my main thing was I wanted to hold on to that after I came down as I learned with so many things. Level of consciousness and mindfulness are inexorably linked. I'm sorry, Sam. Go ahead.

2:04:57SpeakerNo problem. John, to be honest, your place was to kick that stone out of the way.

2:05:04IndraWell, I know that, but I was very careful and walking carefully because I didn't think that I wanted to... I thought everything was right the way it should be, and so... You know, I took my shoes off and I walked barefoot, in other words. I probably still disturb a rock or two. But if you want scrambled eggs, you got to break one, right?

2:05:26BubblemanThat's what they say.

2:05:33IndraAnyway, I'm just saying I think it's all linked to consciousness. You know, when you want to heal somebody, you... You hear their anecdote evidenced as a way of making your consciousness discover what it is that the anecdote is telling you so that you can turn that back around and do something for them. And I'm just saying that that's not a bad way to go through life, I guess.

2:06:00IndraAnyway, I'll shut up. Next.

2:06:03BubblemanNext. Well, you know your perspective comes from working in that free hospital for all those years in India.

2:06:12JohnI love the tripper in you, John. I think that's just great. And I think not disturbing anything and leaving it nicer than you found it has always been a nice path to be on.

2:06:23SpeakerAnd John, by any chance, was that a Jane hospital?

2:06:29IndraNo, it wasn't, because at the Jane hospitals, when they die, they put them up on the roof for the birds to eat.

2:06:37BubblemanJesus Christ.

2:06:39IndraNo, I was at a free hospital in South India and yeah, you know, I ended up actually getting involved in a village outreach program which was a lot more fulfilling because some of the hospitals, a lot of wealthy Indian people go there to get treatment and really was there to treat people who were unable to afford to go and see a doctor and that was my My main impetus for doing it, and that's where I got the most joy in seeing people who could come and could get the information or the treatment they needed and go away happy.

2:07:22IndraSo that kept me there for a very long time.

2:07:27BubblemanWell, it's the good work, for sure.

2:07:31IndraPlus, India is a great place to grow good pot. You just can't imagine how great it grows there. Especially in South India. Someone talked about the desert. Good grief. We lived in South India and we grew a couple of plants on the roof. By the first jagged leaf that came out, I forget what you call it. The first round leaf comes up and then the little jagged leaf comes up and then it immediately went to bud.

2:07:55BubblemanThe epicotyl is the jagged one. The epicotylodon is the first round one.

2:08:06IndraUh-huh. Well, it would come out and then four hairs would come out around it and then it would just, you know, carry on like that and just turn into one huge flower.

2:08:16SpeakerWas that imported seed or local seed?

2:08:20IndraNo, that was seeds we bought from, you know, USA.

2:08:24SpeakerThat's the reason they flowered so fast because they're from the northern hemisphere and when you grow them in a more tropical environment, the photo periods are short and they flower immediately.

2:08:38IndraYeah, they sure do. Yeah, I grew a number of generations of them, and then I brought those seeds back to here.

2:08:50IndraNice.

2:08:55BubblemanI still have quite a few of my seeds collected for the last 25 years. I cracked, obviously, my 20-year-old Jamaican a couple years ago, which is still going strong, and Johnny's Garden and many others. It's always nice to see that come to fruition. Pretty cool when a 20-year-old seed cracks.

2:09:18SpeakerWhen Jeffrey Guy first told me about CBD and the GW strategy to develop medicine around CBD, it was 1998, and I said, well, gee, I can't wait until we get an analytic lab online back in the U.S. so we can Start finding some of our CBD strength. And he and other experts assumed at the time that it had all been bred out of cannabis in the U.S. because everybody had been breeding for psychoactivity for so long.

2:09:50SpeakerBut I told him, I said, you know, the hills are full of hippies who save their seeds whenever there's an interesting effect. And I said, I bet we're going to find some. And sure enough, when the analytic lab came online and 2008, about one out of 600 strains they tested did test positive for CBD in appreciable amounts.

2:10:13BubblemanInteresting. Yeah, exactly. The selection's being done for effects. And it's always those out-of-the-box thinkers that... It's interesting how so many people that were involved in the growing of cannabis under prohibition, which were very alternative people generally, that they just... We still fell into this sort of, you know... Almost tricked into breeding out cannabinoids without even knowing that's what was happening by following these prohibition mentalities of how much can I get and how fast can I get it, cutting out the long flowering periods of the exotics land race or NLDs, narrow leaf drug cultivars.

2:10:54BubblemanIt's interesting to see how there's still those, like you said, those hippie dudes that are just like, yeah, you know, I don't care if nobody likes it. This one has a unique effect and I'm holding on to it. Exactly.

2:11:06Etienne FontanWe're thankful for those because that's what found us CBD and when, you know, we started to look for it and we were able to put out the feelers. Hey, we're looking for these that have this different effect altogether because... Then we had to look for the spike, and then we actually found the actual spike in the science, so that we could actually read where CBD was found, and that was a whole other ratio.

2:11:27Etienne FontanBut then the hunt is still ongoing to try and find these CBD dominant strains. It's also a shame, though, as specified and why I've always felt we need a germplasm institute in North America is we're missing and losing all these genetics. You know, I have a tattoo of a genetic that I grew that was beneficial for me and it's gone. It's no longer accessible because it was never saved.

2:11:53Etienne FontanPeople never kept mothers. And we're constantly losing all these genetics. That's why earlier on with Philippe when he was talking about Swazi, I wish I could get more Swazi, but because of the prohibition reality, people have moved it indoors to these six to eight week varieties because they have to make rent, they have to pay their bills, they have to eat, they have to pay the gas to get to where they go.

2:12:19Etienne FontanSo Prohibition has completely driven these hybrid, bastardized genetics that we have today. You know, because to try to find pure F1s is, I think, Sam can attest, fucking rare.

2:12:36SpeakerWell, no, you just have to go find the land races that you're interested in. But I'll tell you the honest truth. Any place where ganja is grown, the cannabis is basically THC. Where, you know, you have to really start looking for other cannabinoids besides THC. CBD, that's common in small amounts and varieties and stuff, but small amounts. Where all the modern high CBD varieties were created with hybrids between drug varieties and CBD varieties.

2:13:13BubblemanWell, there you came back at the end. We were losing you again. It's unfortunate. I always want to hear what you have to say, but you're cutting out a little bit there.

2:13:20SpeakerOkay, no problem. I'll just be quiet and listen.

2:13:23IndraNo. Well, you know... Come on, David.

2:13:25SpeakerMake it work.

2:13:25IndraThere's an army of cannabinoids undiscovered as of yet. I saw a nuclear magnetic resonance on one particular plant. And there's an army of cannabinoids that come in at extremely low levels, like, you know, .0001. And...

2:13:49IndraNone of these have been really looked at, except for they know that some of them are very potent, but they're in such small quantities that nobody's really looking for studying them.

2:14:01SpeakerAs far as I know, John, none of the cannabinoids are potent in a recreational way besides THC.

2:14:09IndraWell, I didn't mean recreational. I meant useful.

2:14:13SpeakerOh, yeah. For medical use, absolutely.

2:14:17IndraUseful is good. Yeah, I'm always talking medical use. I love getting high, but I think pot is, you know, they say that somewhere in the Bible it said about manna, and I'm just wondering if the spaceship wasn't just throwing out buds that had seeds in them and they were picking it up and it would Covered all their needs. Hey, we can eat this shit. We can smoke it.

2:14:42IndraThat would be manna, wouldn't it? I mean, we can change it into paper. We can make clothes out of it that last forever, paper. You know, there's some, somebody in the world doesn't like it. And that's one of the people that seems to be running things. And that's what's getting shoved down our throats, whether we like it or not. And until we can Hunt that person out or those people out and eliminate them from this decision process.

2:15:12IndraWe're going to be struggling with it because it's clear that most people want it, but still it's against the rules. What does that tell you? We ain't making the rules, folks.

2:15:22BubblemanYeah. That's exactly what it's telling us.

2:15:25Etienne FontanWe are definitely not making the rules. I think we've all seen that to be pretty obvious.

2:15:30SpeakerWell, change doesn't happen in a vacuum. You need re-education first.

2:15:37Etienne FontanAnd that's what we're doing and that's what we've been doing. Go ahead, John.

2:15:45IndraNo, no, I probably do live in a vacuum myself because I live on 40 acres up north in the middle of nowhere surrounded by redwood trees of the river going by my door and I don't get a lot of visitors here and at my age I don't go out to the clubs and I'm not touring the Dispensaries, although some years ago we used to tour the dispensaries when it first started out because we were supplying a huge majority of them with various materials.

2:16:17IndraBut anyway, somebody else decided that they wanted us to not do that and just be pals with them. So, I sit around and I am in a vacuum. I do read and I do look at the entertainment on the internet which is You know, I guess what a lot of people do when you get bored and old.

2:16:38SpeakerYeah, but it's not about you, John. It's about the unconverted, not the converted. We don't need to waste time on the converted like you.

2:16:47Etienne FontanWell, there is a big conversion that happened actually last night. There was a large fight between two fighters and the fighter that lost, Diaz, when he went up for his press conference used a CBD pen and used a vape pen during his press conference and talked about it and made people aware on a whole other level because it was a second fight in a worldwide fight that Thanks for your attention.

2:17:18Etienne FontanSo CBD was an information regarding I know was definitely triggered and it's hitting through my news feed and because I belong to different cannabis news feeds so there's something that's happening education on an internet level right now because people don't understand what CBD is and now they've got a fighter going up there because this is the first time I've ever seen a press conference where somebody's sitting there through the press conference just hitting a CBD pen the entire time.

2:17:48IndraYeah, it was pretty wild. Yeah, kudos for him.

2:17:52SpeakerToo bad he didn't win.

2:17:55IndraToo bad he didn't win, yeah. Well, there'll be people who will point that out and go, he didn't win because he was smoking this crap. I saw him doing that on the, it doesn't matter. Well, I have learned by saying certain information on here that you cannot please everybody. I told you guys how to do that. Hashtang, and man, oh man, it's very discouraging. A bunch of people, one guy said, hey, this is a shady guy, I don't believe this.

2:18:21IndraI'm like, okay, well, I don't really care because I was giving information out there. It's the internet, John.

2:18:30BubblemanIt's the internet.

2:18:31IndraYeah, I know. There's a button on here. There's a thing on the top of your browser. It's a little X. Press that.

2:18:39BubblemanYeah, exactly. Well, you know what? I have to say this. I have appreciated when we were stuck and more segregated onto cannabis-based websites where it was like you had to go to Overgrow or Cannabis.com or Cannabis Culture and they were You know, we were separated from the rest of the mainstream society that once that sort of flipped and all of a sudden all of these mainstream social medias like Instagram and Twitter and Facebook and YouTube started allowing cannabis content to be posted, it was finally a place to, you know, first of all, we didn't have to try and build an audience because let's face it, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, they've already done that for us.

2:19:18BubblemanThey've created these incredible audiences, but what the real difference for me was was not being able to control those trolls, those people who come on and try to create a negative vibe and pull me out of what I'm actually doing because I can't edit those websites, but through my own social media I can edit and remove those people, not give them my audience to, you know, because those people always have the same thing.

2:19:43BubblemanYou go and follow them back to their social media platforms and they have zero followers and they have a very You know like three posts and really what their job is to just go around and cause dissent in different areas. So I think it's been beneficial for cannabis education that people have been able to, because cannabis in particular attracts an enormous amount of I don't know what the word is, and maybe they're just hired dissenters.

2:20:07BubblemanThey're just like, you know, people that want to... We have a woman right now, actually. Geez, I'm almost afraid to name her because she could come after me. Pamela McCall, and this woman now has a website up here in Canada and saying that basically cannabis, smoking cannabis or using cannabis when pregnant is basically going to cause like the equivalent of thalidomide babies. She has this up on her website right now.

2:20:32BubblemanYeah, it's unbelievable. It's really some next level prohibition shit. It's almost the most ridiculous you could ever imagine. Show us the evidence.

2:20:42Etienne FontanShow us the evidence.

2:20:43BubblemanShe calls the police. She gets dispensaries busted. She causes havoc for people. Oh, one of those. She's got young people going around at the events with pot leaves with a big X through it when they wear gas masks and hand out anti-cannabis literature. So it's pretty wild in this day and age to see That that can still exist. Thank God on social media outlets we can banhammer those people and just let them talk to their own audience, which is generally no audience.

2:21:13IndraWell, you know, we had four kids. My wife is a smokestack. I sometimes call her a smokestack as a nickname. And she smoked all the while pregnant with them. All four successful. The second son... It's getting a free scholarship from MIT in math. And so, you know, smoking when you're pregnant didn't seem to have that effect. And I talked to lots of other people. We know a lot of hippies from way back when.

2:21:47IndraAnd it's society that makes the changes. You know, hippies, when they raise their kids, they become businessmen. And businessmen raise hippies. And army bases spit out hippies like there's no tomorrow. And it all has to do with the kind of suppression you're experiencing or not experiencing. And the reason that shevin pot needs to remain illegal is because from the first joint you realize that it makes you turn around and take a look at yourself and what's going on.

2:22:15IndraAnd that's the kind of power they're not interested in giving to the people. Agreed. The power to wake up.

2:22:24BubblemanThe power to feel. The power of empathy and compassion. And a different perspective that is one that seems to be so anti against whatever the current agenda is with all of this different, you know, the media that they're putting on through whatever you call the news. I'm not even sure if you can call it the news anymore. It seems to have made a huge joke out of itself.

2:22:47BubblemanIt's just a monster. I mean, it seems like, for me, I kind of quit. I was engaging in it around 1999 when they did the 2001, 9-11 in Switzerland or 2000, whatever the year was. I was in Switzerland when 9-11 happened and it was, for whatever reason, I don't have cable at home but I was at a hotel and I ended up watching that social experiment and it was horrible, obviously sickening, making, it's like a mass snuff field.

2:23:16BubblemanIt's the worst thing you've ever experienced but I kind of pulled out at that point because I realized That it was, the manipulation was real and it was potentially dangerous for me to engage in too much of that.

2:23:31IndraTell the truth, Mark. Did you drop out of listening to the news after you read my BHO post?

2:23:40BubblemanNo, I think it was a little after that.

2:23:43Etienne FontanThat's just all negative. I've stopped watching the news too and I actually flipped over and watched the news quickly and all it is is just negative, murder, this, that, that. Fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. Here's Tom with the weather.

2:23:57SpeakerMissing Girls. My wife thought there should be a whole Missing Girls channel. Yeah. Missing Girls.

2:24:05BubblemanOh, shit.

2:24:07Etienne FontanYeah, pretty much. I mean, that's what CNN basically turned into into the evenings, you know, here in the United States. It was just the missing girl channel. It was just, it's just no, well, there's no real news anymore that really happens. So that's why we rely on people like Fred and, you know, newspapers to still be out there to educate people. Otherwise, you know, behold, parts of the populace still be hungering for data and information, you know.

2:24:34SpeakerI'm looking up, when we were talking about the effect, and Bubba Madsen makes you more apathetic, in the 40s, the New York Medical Society did a study, they called it, it was published as the LaGuardia Report, named after the mayor, and they sent undercover police who were not, they weren't, they were objective, they were trained, first they took sociology courses, and then they infiltrated the pot scene, mainly in Harlem, And they reported back honestly.

2:25:08SpeakerAt that time there were 500, this is the early 40s, there were 500 teapads in Harlem. And I'm looking for the great quote that somebody... Teapads, that is so awesome. Carry on, I'll find it.

2:25:25Etienne FontanIt's... But 500 in Harlem, so they were selling weed or hanging out and smoking in 500 different places.

2:25:33SpeakerIt's kind of long. I could read it, but it's really... Go for it. We've got time. Most of the smokers... Now, this is a report from the New York Medical Society. Most of the smokers of marijuana coming within the scope of our survey were unemployed, and of the others, most had part-time employment. Occasional as well as confirmed users were all aware of the laws pertaining to the drugs.

2:26:00SpeakerThey did not indulge in its use with the spirit of braggadocio or as a challenge to law, as has been reported by some investigators in other districts. They did not express remorse concerning their use of marijuana, nor did they blame this habit as a causative factor in the production of special difficulties in their personal lives. Except for musicians, there appeared to be no attempt at secretiveness on the part of the habitual smoker.

2:26:27SpeakerThis attitude is in marked contrast to that usually taken by those addicted to morphine, cocaine, or heroin. The consensus of marijuana users is that the drug is not harmful, that infrequent or constant use of marijuana does not result in physical or mental deterioration. Then they talk about what high means and reefer means.

2:26:51SpeakerYou guys carry on. I'll find this great. That is fascinating. I'll just continue on.

2:26:58Etienne FontanWhat year is that from? That's from the 40s?

2:27:00SpeakerThis is from the 40s. The confirmed marijuana smoker consumes perhaps from six to ten cigarettes per day. He appears to be quite conscious of the quantity he requires to reach the effect called high. Once the desired effect is obtained, he cannot be persuaded to consume more. He knows when he has had enough. The smoker determines for himself the point of being high and is ever conscious of preventing himself from becoming too high.

2:27:30SpeakerBrilliant. Yeah.

2:27:33BubblemanWe know. It's called bioassay, and we know.

2:27:36JohnSelf-titration. Right? That's what makes cannabis so wonderful.

2:27:44SpeakerAnyway, it's a long excerpt and I can't find the lines I remember where they like to go up on the roof and look at the stars and that the conversations that people had when high, they seemed to be more intelligent than they really were. This is what sociologists look for. I'm going to step away and try to find the exact wording.

2:28:12BubblemanThat's great. The terminology high, you know, it's an interesting one because there is an elevation that's going on for certain, but it seems like high has gotten a bad rap through the prohibition machine, you know, it's churned out.

2:28:31Etienne FontanWell, it's like language. It's like the Jamaicans use overstand. They don't under because they actually are educated about it so they feel they can look over and make a decision and not be under it and be oppressed from it. So it's all about language.

2:28:47IndraAbsolutely. There's a bunch of people who don't think high should be allowed because they feel like shit all the time. And misery loves company, or so I've heard.

2:28:56Etienne FontanWell, it seems to demand it at that, you know, because they want to oppress others. If we can't feel good, then you can't fucking feel good either. How dare you be better than me and feel better than me?

2:29:07BubblemanIndeed. I mean, I'll never forget David Allen, Dr. David Allen coming in and talking about the amygdaliac hijacking that can go on in the brain and the fear, the constant, like, the lack of empathy, the lack of compassion, that lack of feeling that you You know, get towards this sort of reptilian brain state where you're just like, yeah, you want to go become a police officer. It's like, oof, not bashing on all cops.

2:29:35BubblemanI know some great ones, but some of them are definitely, should have been vetted.

2:29:40JohnThey need cannabinoids too. I think this is the whole message we really deliver is that everybody needs cannabinoids. It will benefit everybody no matter what they do. It will make their lives more balanced. It will make their lives more happy. I mean that's why we're all tuned in. That's why we're all paying attention to one another. We're trying to learn from one another. We're all just, you know, you can't go to school and learn this.

2:30:04JohnAll the great universities in every city and every country, none of them really are teaching cannabis.

2:30:10BubblemanYou know, and one day they will be Todd and we'll laugh and we'll look back and be like, wow, that's kind of weird how that all went down, hey? Like, geez, university courses, incredible. And man, you know, a university course in cannabis would be like taking sciences, taking agriculture and botany, taking so many different aspects that you could do just the one. Would encompass cannabis. You'd need to learn about a lot of different things unless you're focusing on only one thing.

2:30:43BubblemanIt's wide-ranging cannabis, that's for certain.

2:30:47JohnWell, every day is a new discovery. It's just amazing to listen to everybody bring all this information to the table because, I mean, when I got involved in this 20 years ago and I was sitting with Todd McCorea getting high and he was explaining things to me, We were just excited to get this old information out. We had no idea there was going to be so much coming down the pike.

2:31:08JohnAnd it is like a snowball that's only getting larger. And I saw somebody ask in chat, do I support adult use of marijuana act? Of course I still do. I support yes on cannabis on any ballot that it's on anywhere because I think the fight doesn't end when the ballot is won. I mean, we're 20 years after 2015, and we're still struggling for regulation and to not be prosecuted and everything.

2:31:35JohnSo this doesn't end at the ballot box. So yes, I support every initiative on the ballot right now.

2:31:41Etienne FontanWell, it means a lot, too, because, I mean, Todd's going to court tomorrow. So that's a reality. I love you, Todd, and it pisses me off that we teleported.

2:31:51SpeakerWhen and where, Todd? When and where?

2:31:54JohnIt ran in Oakland in the morning, man. You know, I was the only one that they charged her with cultivating cannabis in 2013, Fred. Amusingly enough. In the federal building? No, it's not federal. They passed it on to the state, so I've been going down to the state. Tony is my attorney, yeah. Who is? Tony Serra. And what time? Early, 9, I'm sure. 8.30, I'll probably meet him.

2:32:24JohnYep. Who knows what'll happen? I mean, I think, you know, it's been going on now for three and a half years, and this is, it literally, they waited ten months to prosecute me because I didn't cooperate, and when Tony challenged it, that was literally why they said they delayed my prosecution in hopes I would change my mind. And when I didn't, they kicked it down to the state, and the state Just, you know, I got a letter in the mail saying, you come on down.

2:32:50JohnI thought my dogs were barking or something. So I went down and they weren't prepared to go forward. I went down again. They weren't prepared to go forward. I went down a third time. They finally were prepared to go forward and they asked for a $50,000 bond. And the judge laughed at them and said, he's been here over and over again. I think he'll show up. So no.

2:33:09JohnSo, you know. Who is the judge? Well, it doesn't, it goes like this, like, it'll get assigned, because now, when it gets all the way to where it is now, we supposedly start trial tomorrow, that's when the prosecution has to come in, and I cannot imagine they really want to do a dance with Tony Serra 90 days before an initiative is to legalize weed. And with Oakland trying to open up, what, 100 licenses?

2:33:36JohnIt's, I just, it's so ridiculous.

2:33:39Etienne FontanWell, and that's why this discussion was about AMA and why we need to see change and why we need to see people who are registered to vote. And if you are a Californian watching, I hope you're registered to vote and are going to vote for, because I support it too. I put my money where my mouth is. I support this initiative financially. I believe that we didn't get all of our rights taken away all at once.

2:34:03Etienne FontanWe're not going to get them back all at once. And this is not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. And Todd, can you tell people where you're going to be tomorrow if people want to show up for support?

2:34:14JohnWell, it's just downtown, downtown Oakland. It's that main building. What the hell, yeah. I don't even know the name of the main building. It's the one in the middle on the water. It's beautiful.

2:34:24SpeakerHuh? What's it called, Fred? I think it's called, is it the courthouse? Did you say overlooking the water? Yeah, the main one, yeah.

2:34:33JohnThe Alameda Courthouse. Yeah, Alameda Courthouse, that's correct, yeah. But you know what, for what it's worth, I mean... It's been a weird experience. I mean, I think the laws are melting. I mean, it feels like it's just, people don't understand. This is the third time I've been prosecuted since I got out of federal prison. So this is, since I became an activist, the fifth time I've been prosecuted for just weed.

2:34:55JohnAnd so I'm a little numb to it, and it's so much so that I don't even really focus on it at all anymore. I just try to focus on what I'm doing. I mean, you know.

2:35:05Etienne FontanYeah, but it shows that the current laws in California do not protect patients. Even you. You've had cancer ten different times. You are a fucking patient for Christ's sake. You know, it's just beyond maddening that they're still going to prosecute you of all people. And then they want to ride along with Tony Serra, which is only going to make them...

2:35:27JohnBut I think that part of it though is that nothing, you know, not to sound like an ass, but nothing really comes of it. I mean, I didn't think that prison was all that difficult and really, I wish more people would just stand up against the system because the system would clearly break. And it's really not that big of a deal to go through and, you know, that's probably why I've been so resilient and I think we have a right to grow cannabis and we shouldn't stop.

2:35:54Etienne FontanWell, your example is why I'm suing the government, why hopefully soon I'm going to get my victory, because if we all lay down and fight, if we saw, if everybody continues to just plea, then we all end up with the same thing. But when we stand up and fight, even though as costly and as frustrating and as life-interrupting it is, it affects change for all. And thank you.

2:36:15Etienne FontanI'm sorry you have to go through this.

2:36:17SpeakerIf any media show up, you can use it as an occasion to speak for Alma.

2:36:24Etienne FontanOf course.

2:36:25JohnYou know what's funny is like, I don't know, you know what, see, I think in Oakland the media is so numb to this. This isn't like it was in the 90s. I mean, you know, when I first got prosecuted in the 90s, this was pre-ALMA and I was in LA and it was Jack Harris' backyard and, I mean, we had friends in the media that were working as producers and On the major television stations that were cannabis friendly, it was different.

2:36:55JohnAnd I don't know, I feel like they've prosecuted me so many times just to kind of like, Thank you for watching.

2:37:18JohnBecause I had taken one outdoor plant and cut it into a bunch of little plants and hung it up inside, they counted it as like a hundred and something little branches and brought it in and then gave me probation because it was no big deal and the prosecutor understood that it was one plant. But I've been so used to this that it's just, I don't know, it's just no big deal in my life anymore.

2:37:40JohnIf that makes sense. And if you know Tony, Tony's fucking awesome. So it's a really great experience to kind of be able to be so close to someone that was a hero to me on so many levels for so long. This guy is for so many good causes. And to have him kind of on my team, to have him leading my team, be my friend, it's really an honor more than anything.

2:38:04JohnYou know, so fuck him. Off to court we go.

2:38:08SpeakerWe'll be thinking about you, man. I found the riff I wanted to share with you guys. This is from the LaGuardia report, the undercover report. The marijuana smoker derives greater satisfaction if he is smoking in the presence of others. His attitude in the, quote, teapad is that of a relaxed individual, free from the anxieties and cares of the realities of life. The teapad takes on the atmosphere of a very congenial social club.

2:38:37SpeakerThe smoker readily engages in conversation with strangers, discussing freely his pleasant reactions to the drug and philosophizing on subjects pertaining to life in a manner which, at times, appears to be out of keeping with his intellectual level.

2:39:00SpeakerA constant observation was the extreme willingness to share and puff on each other's cigarettes.

2:39:09BubblemanThat's marijuana. Yep, indeed. Very unique, that urge to share. Everyone always wants to share the goods. There should be a study on that. You sure don't see people sharing any other substance the same way. It's like an honor to share with people. You want to share with people. You share with people you don't even know.

2:39:29IndraThat's because it makes you feel consciousness. It makes you feel yourself. When you feel yourself, You feel everybody else. We're all connected. There's no question about that. I mean, connections might be very long and tenuous, it seems, until you're face-to-face with someone. But the desire to share that's opened up by smoking a pot is opening that door of consciousness for you. And you want to share that with the other person.

2:40:03IndraIt's different if you're eating a T-bone steak. You know, you're like, get your own fucking steak or whatever. But if you're smoking and somebody else is sitting there with you, you're likely even to share a piece of the meat. So I think it definitely opens you to the cosmic oneness.

2:40:23BubblemanAbsolutely. Well, I always used to enjoy at the Cannabis Cup, setting up at my booth and sharing about 100 grams of bubble hash over the course of five days in single dabs.

2:40:33IndraHa ha, that must have been a gasp.

2:40:35BubblemanYeah, you know, they were long, 12 plus hour days for five days in a row. We were always wiped at the end of it, but being able to meet that many cool people and share with that many people, and that's the experience. You're spending about maybe three to five minutes with them, unless you spark a conversation, but...

2:40:54Etienne FontanYeah, but that room was also very foggy and it was very small and very compact. It was amazing, dude. You really pulled that shit off consistently. I got to give you props for that. It was amazing.

2:41:07SpeakerI got a slide, guys. Thanks for the invitation. See you again.

2:41:10BubblemanHey, thanks for coming in, Fred.

2:41:12SpeakerThanks, Fred.

2:41:13BubblemanMy pleasure. See you again. We've got another 20 minutes left on Hash Church 100. And then I'm going to head off to... Crankworx, and go check out the Slopestyle. See what these guys are doing on these bikes. Just absolutely insanity. Hopefully I'll make a little video shared on Bubble Man's World. It would be nice, I think. Good quality, good content.

2:41:36IndraHey, Tony.

2:41:39BubblemanIs Tony here? I kind of saw him come in, but I haven't really seen him yet. I think he's at like HempCon or some event right now, so it might be loud.

2:41:47SpeakerOh, no, I'm... I'm here. I'm just actually finally pulling up to the event and going to turn the camera on. It was a lovely Sunday morning, several hours of traffic.

2:42:03BubblemanOh, geez.

2:42:05SpeakerBut I am here to share some hashish and terpenes with the world.

2:42:12BubblemanAh, some hashish terpenes.

2:42:15SpeakerI'm going to share, my friend. That's what I do.

2:42:18BubblemanI think it's a good thing. You kind of can't go wrong when you're sharing.

2:42:23SpeakerWell, like you said, it's kind of like when you have something really good, you're just like, oh, I want to share this with people. Check it out, you know? Yeah, absolutely. It's just part of the plan. It's like when you get just the way it is, when people are smoking a joint or smoking a dab or whatever, you find something really tasty or really good or really strong, you immediately want to like, Have other people smoke it with you.

2:42:48SpeakerIt's interesting.

2:42:50BubblemanI'll say one thing. When I first started making bubble hash back in the late 90s and started to really show a quality that was, you know, not just run through a couple of bags but started running them through more bags and filtering them more so and the quality of the resin just used to rock people. Like I don't see it anymore. People seem to be on the ball plus I'm very careful as to how I I give people a dab.

2:43:17BubblemanI try not to give them too much. I try to give them just the right amount. But back then, we were a little more ignorant to that. We were just giving people dabs, giving people hits. And there was a large amount of people that used to go unconscious from the intense quality or concentration of phytocannabinoids and terpenes. They were never hurt. They'd just go down and then get back up and be like, oh, that was crazy.

2:43:44BubblemanBut I saw it so much back then, and I just don't see it.

2:43:48SpeakerYou know, the main difference is that the water was a lot better back then.

2:43:54BubblemanOh, yeah? Is that one of those over-my-head jokes? No, I'm telling you, don't you notice that you don't knock people out as often, Sam? I mean, you must have knocked people out like crazy. I think you knocked John Conroy's wife out once at a restaurant in Amsterdam.

2:44:15SpeakerNo, I find that when people who aren't used to smoking really strong hash smoke really strong hash, that happens to a certain percentage of them. But more and more people are smoking really strong hash.

2:44:32BubblemanYeah, that's for sure, compared to how much used to.

2:44:35IndraWell, I am still laughing about your comment about the water.

2:44:42SpeakerYeah, well, I guess old guys appreciate slow and easy humor.

2:44:50IndraI guess.

2:44:54SpeakerWell, I'll tell you. Here's a copy of the LaGuardia report.

2:45:04BubblemanOh, yeah. The marijuana probe. How many pages is that?

2:45:11SpeakerLet me look, I'll tell you. It's 220 pages. Wow. Let's get that on lockdown, Harry. It was printed in 1944, and the LaGuardia report, most of the copies were bought up by the Anselinger Group and destroyed.

2:45:40BubblemanRight. We're going in. We're going into the event with Tony. He's taking us in. We're going through security. That's not security.

2:45:54Etienne FontanHe's getting his badge.

2:45:57BubblemanYep.

2:45:59Etienne FontanI'm getting excited.

2:46:02BubblemanI've been missing Crankworx every year for so many years that I can't believe I'm actually finally here and I'm going to be able to go out there and... What is Crankworx? That's a mountain bike competition. It's like 12 days on Whistler Mountain, but today specifically is slope style. It's a big thing. Red Bull will have, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in cameras and wires and the whole nine yards.

2:46:24BubblemanThere'll be thousands of people there for certain, and the world's best downhill mountain bikers will be there competing. That sounds awesome. Yeah. I'm really looking forward to it. It's amazing that it's just in my backyard. And where's Tony? Where's HempCon happening right now? Now that looks like security.

2:46:44Etienne FontanIt's at San Francisco at the Cal Palace. Okay. It's where the High Times San Francisco is as well. Okay.

2:46:53SpeakerWhat's really funny is they checked my backpack that has all my camera gear but not the blue briefcase or my dad rigs. I just want to say that my briefcase and my rig system had a plethora of hash and terpenes in it. And they only checked my camera bag because it was on my backpack. Say what's up to Guild Extracts.

2:47:19Etienne FontanTony, is it all indoors this time?

2:47:22SpeakerIt's all indoors. It's all indoors. Here's some other friends. Whoa, look at this. Wow.

2:47:34BubblemanHugs for Tony. That was a nice reception. These guys seem to be more stoked.

2:47:40Etienne FontanOh, the Empress, yes, they have great stuff. I carry their stuff as well.

2:47:46SpeakerThis is one of my friends over in the Bay Area. Super live resin, CBD rich. Nerves. Look at this. How's the, how can you, is the hearing okay? Yeah, I can hear you fine. Oh, this though is my heart product. Whole extract cannabis oil. There you go. Made with so much love. Testing results. Testing results. Everyone likes testing results. So how long does this event go for?

2:48:31BubblemanI don't know.

2:48:32SpeakerThree days.

2:48:33Etienne FontanIt's been going on Friday, Saturday, and then today.

2:48:36SpeakerI haven't been able to take my glasses off.

2:48:41BubblemanShe's live on Hash Church. Take the picture.

2:48:43SpeakerHey, Chad. Hash Church.

2:48:47BubblemanThis is hilarious. It is hilarious. Hold on a second. I haven't even taken my glasses off yet.

2:48:53SpeakerCan I give you a nice dab on Hash Church? Yeah, let's do it.

2:48:56BubblemanYeah, let's do it. I like that Tony's got the portable unit and he's able to roll.

2:49:04Etienne FontanWell, no, that's the thing. These are events. They already have stuff already set up.

2:49:08SpeakerAll right. I've got something to share with you, too. Here we go. Now we're watching the sharing that we were literally just talking about. This is a dog walker turpoil.

2:49:23SpeakerIt's the little dropper. Okay, that's for him to take. Okay. Yeah.

2:49:55SpeakerAll right. Ready?

2:49:59SpeakerAbs. Long rep, everybody. Why aren't we participating?

2:50:11BubblemanLet's do it. We could. We could be participating. Wow, was that Tony muting his own mic as he coughed?

2:50:19SpeakerHe did.

2:50:20BubblemanOh, wow. This is crazy. I left my... How about it's the 100th episode of Hash Church. 100th.

2:50:54SpeakerWhat the fuck? Seriously. I know. It's amazing. 100 episodes, man. Would you have thought we would have done this 99 episodes ago? We're just really doing it to get baked together and fucking try to talk and share it with everybody. It's incredible. The only reason I did it was because I wanted to smoke 100 bombs. Yes. Yes. Well, I bet you there's been plenty more than 100 bomb rips done in the first half hour of this Hash Church episode.

2:51:29SpeakerOh, God, it's two minutes. 100. Fuck, let's do another bomb rip just because we can. And, like, look at who we got on the panel and who has come in and the testimonials and the information and the bombs. Like, these are atomic bombs that have been dropped on the Internet. For the information for everybody to have and share. Holy shit! Fucking good on you. Thanks Mark for doing this and thanks everybody for all of it.

2:52:00SpeakerThanks to the subscribers and the fans that enjoy my fucking bong rip call. Thanks for the bong rip call.

2:52:13Etienne FontanYeah, we've got to give much love to Marcus. Thank you very much for giving us this place and this ability to spread this knowledge and give of ourselves. Everybody here volunteers their time and their energy, so thank you all for your time and contributing in one way, shape, or form. It's many blessings. I count it a blessing to be here every Sunday and to learn and to share and to understand as well as to teach is very humbling.

2:53:07BubblemanWhat's that, John?

2:53:10IndraI was just telling Dr. Natasha that she looks very nice today. And I said to you, kudos. You're the man for getting this whole scene together. Otherwise, we might be sitting somewhere looking for a place to park to roll a joint.

2:53:23BubblemanYeah, no, this is a good scene. Yeah, well, Natasha has a huge fan club in the Hash Church chat. Every time she comes in, there's many compliments given out. And I'm happy to say they're positive compliments. In a mature way, so that's always nice. People appreciate your knowledge.

2:53:41SpeakerYeah, I just want to give a shout out to everyone in the audience and also to you, Marcus. Happy 100th. But again, your community is awesome and I've really enjoyed interacting with everyone and keep the questions coming. I'm trying to get back to everybody, including Cam. You messaged me about some gut issue ideas. I'm still working on that email. But anyway, thank you for being so nice and welcoming to me.

2:54:07SpeakerI really appreciate it.

2:54:09BubblemanAbsolutely. Well, you've been sharing great information. That's just how it goes. Great information is welcome here at Hash Church. That's what the whole foundation of the experience has been about, to just share this. We've mentioned it quite a few times, this sort of forum of radical openness that allows, well, I mean, Philippe was talking about it earlier in regards to people who share their data. Maybe they're looking for a certain thing in their data, but if they can just share it, You know, the stuff that they're maybe not even using or that they're not ready to discover, it sure speeds it up if there's other people out there who want to study and want to speed that up.

2:54:46BubblemanSo we appreciate all the work that everyone's putting in on all the different platforms to sort of coalesce and move our industry forward. And there's my door. So I will excuse myself for one minute, pass on the conversation. We're going to end in about five minutes. If you guys have anything last, statements you want to make, by all means, make them now.

2:55:06Etienne FontanYeah, because he's got to check out and the hotel's like, get the fuck out.

2:55:10BubblemanNo, no, I'm here for a week. My friend is at the door.

2:55:16SpeakerBong rip.

2:55:18Etienne FontanBong rip. All right, I can bong rip it. Bong rip and happy birthday. Bong rip and happy 100th, everybody. Happy 100th to everybody. And thank you very much, Sam, for your contributions and Todd for your contributions. And, Indra, we can't thank you enough for your contribution to us all. I mean, I know countless patients who thank you very much just for what you've taught, and I can't thank you enough for what you've been able to bring to the discussion here as well.

2:55:51IndraI hope somebody soon reports that they tried to mix the Powder along with the shattered oil and made a good temple ball. It would be nice to hear that someone actually managed to pull it off. And by the way, Dr. Natasha, it just worked so well with the nerve that you couldn't believe it. I'm sure. You could use it to investigate some new products that you might find potent and very nice.

2:56:21IndraAnd anytime you like, I'd be glad to supply you with Herbal extracts of different plants, sage, whatever, you name it, I extract it.

2:56:32SpeakerI'm actually going to try your temple balls this following week with two, one with some gold drop solvents, or solvent free, and then I'm going to try it with, I've got like 80 grams of rosin to then try the full malt and rosin, like hash rosin. It's a really nice five star press out. So I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it two different ways.

2:56:59SpeakerLet me know.

2:57:00BubblemanYeah, and I have my vessel is on order, Indra. I've got the vessel on order. Basically, the companies here, you need to bring your own vessel, and then they fill it up. And it's not very expensive, but the vessel itself is almost $1,000 for 10 liters.

2:57:22BubblemanSo I guess I'm going to give Devin... I couldn't hear that. Oh, sorry.

2:57:26SpeakerTony's mic is unmuted.

2:57:28BubblemanI can mute it really quick. I just mentioned that I'm going to be doing it next week as well. I have my vessel on order for the liquid nitrogen. In the meantime, I'm going to give my bro Devin, who I'm going to slope style with right away, who, if you remember, I used to do Hash Church at his house probably like 20 Sundays in a row last winter.

2:57:46BubblemanSo here we go, Devin. Sweet.

2:57:49IndraWell, I'll say... You should have spent another $200 and got a 30 liter container because once you try it, you'll soon discover that 10 liters is a good start, but it's like having hors d'oeuvres at a party before dinner.

2:58:07BubblemanI can get a 30 liter no problem.

2:58:15IndraDidn't hear it.

2:58:17BubblemanI just said that I could get a 30 liter no problem, but... I'm going to have to call it a show, guys. Thank you so much for the support. A hundred shows. Really stoked. We pulled it off. Thank you, Todd McCormick, for being such a great help over the Course of 100 Shows and D420K for always showing up, Johnny B and Etienne, Skunk Man Sam, even with your mic coming in like a robot, we still love what you have to share with us.

2:58:45BubblemanThank you John, Indra for coming in and of course Tony at the HempCon. Represent with everything you do, man. I know it'll be awesome and you'll be meeting tons of great people. I can't wait to hear about it. I'll leave you adieu. Thank you everybody for watching the show. We'll see you Well, we'll see you next Sunday for episode 101. Peace out, everybody.

2:59:07Etienne FontanThank you, Bobo Van.

2:59:08BubblemanThanks, Mark.