Cannabis Regulations and Cultural Discussions

0:02BubblemanAll right, we are live. Welcome everybody to Hash Church episode 101. Although when we call it Hash Church 101, it sounds a little bit differently. Almost like this is the let's figure out what's going on here type of thing.

0:17SpeakerOh, what did I do there?

0:18BubblemanThere we go. Open that back up. I'm going to send out the links to the crew. Make sure that my YouTube channel is deleted or turned off. Sorry. Muted. And I am slightly sore today after a week up in Whistler of skating and mountain biking and doing all these epic fun things. But I made it. I'm here. I'm going to send out this link to our panelists first via the Facebook link.

0:42BubblemanI'll send Mr. Davis a link via email. Hopefully he will get that. And I've got a couple of others that I send off through Skype, Mr. Chimera and a few others. And that's it. I'm sure that before you know it, Etienne and Todd McCormick and a few others will be in the room. And I'm pretty excited for Hash Church 101 today. Definitely I'm going to invite Indra in again.

1:08BubblemanWelcome, Etienne. Hello. Oh, you got the happy birthday ball going on.

1:15Etienne FontanYeah, my wonderful woman got me these awesome balloons.

1:20BubblemanIs it your birthday today? Officially, yes. Well, it was my son's birthday yesterday. Happy birthday, ATN. Thank you kindly.

1:28Etienne FontanAnd wish you a happy birthday for me too.

1:31BubblemanAbsolutely, I will. That's nice to see. There's a couple of people celebrating a birthday in the room. I think one of them was Steve. He was mentioning it was his birthday today as well.

1:41Etienne FontanYeah, that's funny. My name is Francis. My name is Francis, Steve.

1:46Etienne FontanNo doubt, eh? You've got an echo. Oh, there we go. Good morning, everybody. Hope everybody's having a good day, work, afternoon, evening, wherever you are.

2:06Etienne FontanAnd there's the skunk man, and there's Mr. McCormick.

2:10BubblemanThere's my echo gone.

2:12Etienne FontanYour echo is very gone, sir.

2:14BubblemanWelcome, welcome Sam and Todd to Hash Church 101.

2:20SamI'm hoping I fixed my microphone, but you guys will tell me.

2:24Etienne FontanIt's perfect. Sounds fine, no vibrations at all.

2:28SamWell, I just put an ether cable instead of a Wi-Fi connector.

2:33Etienne FontanOh, that should be exponentially better.

2:36BubblemanIt definitely sounds great coming through the headphones, that is for sure. Echoes get you baked.

2:47SpeakerGood morning, everybody. Good morning, Todd. What the fuck is my computer doing?

2:53SamHowdy, howdy, Dodd.

2:55SpeakerGood morning, Sam.

2:57BubblemanHey, good morning, 434 people.

3:03SpeakerHey, good morning, everybody.

3:06Etienne FontanSo, what's going on this week in cannabis? Anything new, interesting up there in Canada? I saw that some rules came out or some more regulations.

3:14BubblemanYeah, we've changed our MMAR into an MMPR and now we've turned it into an ACMPR. I was trying to get Kirk to come on because no one could talk about it the way he could, but I am not sure where he is at today. New rules, you know, basically the big thing being that I guess all Canadians will have the right to apply for licensing now to produce on their own, their own cannabis, which was kind of...

3:45BubblemanI mean, we got ourselves into a situation where, of course, everyone wants to have these licenses and be able to grow and it's the right thing to do, but everyone else also wanted to take the herb they were growing and sell it into an open market. That's one of the things that the MMAR license did not allow for. So many people did it, in fact, that I think they were just like, let's get rid of it and we'll start a new license production facility where you have to buy from one of these guys.

4:12BubblemanAnd of course that was a huge breach of our Charter of Rights as Canadian citizens, so that didn't pan out. And after going through court and John Conroy and Kirk Tussaud and all the wonderful people from the coalition, Jason Wilcox and John Burfellow and Remo and Sandra and endless amounts of people that I could name that fought for the right to grow, won in court. Judge Phelan, you know, decided at the highest level, Supreme Court of Canada, That this was unreasonable and that it was a breach of the Charter of Rights and that Canadians should have the right to grow cannabis.

4:45BubblemanI believe now with these new rules, any Canadian will be able to apply for medical to grow cannabis. We haven't gotten to the point where it's just anyone can grow recreationally or whatnot.

4:59Etienne FontanSo can you then import your own seeds or you just have to acquire them locally or your genetics locally?

5:05BubblemanRight now they put in a little bit of a bummer rule which is that we have to acquire our genetics from licensed producers. I believe that's what it says. Don't hold me on that completely. Which is interesting because the licensed producers acquired their seeds and their cuts from growers like the

5:26BubblemanThe great gardener, Matt, he sold a bunch of cultivars to Tilray. I know they've got the Barb, and they've got the Zhangi, and they've got a couple of, they bought a whole crop of plants from him, and then obviously cloned them and kept them alive. And that's how they were able to receive their genetics. So now apparently we're supposed to receive our genetics from them. I think that that's something that will be changed because it just makes no sense and it's somewhat a breach of the charter.

5:54BubblemanWe should be able to acquire genetics either from the ones we have already or from other sources. But it's by no means perfect. It is a federal law so that's unbelievable when you think that I can tell you from someone that is a, from people out there that may have the perspective of fighting OMA in California right now, I can tell you that had we fought this MMAR say in the beginning because it did come in at a total breach of our charter of rights and there were rules that were unable to stay.

6:26BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

6:41BubblemanBreaches the Charter of Rights of Canadians. It's going to be changed again. So by no means do we feel like all of this is now in stone and it's going to be this way. We'll use this new platform for the best that we can and we will find the weaknesses that are there and literally have them changed. Like we've had everything changed over the course of the last 20 years that we've had this, you know, the ability to grow cannabis medically, legally, federally here in Canada.

7:12Etienne FontanYou're still light years ahead of us. We can't even get a federal discussion, much less to even acknowledge it. So congratulations on at least furthering discussion. Nathalie, congratulations on kicking that door further open and not necessarily settling on what they gave you.

7:26SamAlso, in Germany, in the spring, they will be selling marijuana to the pharmacies in Germany.

7:34Etienne FontanBut that's Bedrocan, yes?

7:36SamNo, well, that's just the first step that got shipped there from Tilray. Right, Tweed, yeah. Yeah, Tweed. But I know several groups that are applying for licenses to grow for the pharmacies in Germany.

7:53BubblemanYeah. Well, there's definitely a lot of people interested in that here in Canada. I don't think the people that came up from Privateer and invested $50 million were worried about owning the medical marijuana sort of, Thank you for watching.

8:22BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

8:52SpeakerGood.

8:53BubblemanExcellent, excellent. Well, we've got a nice, quiet, early morning here at 9.09 with 555 people hanging out and wondering what is going on in the world of Hash Church today.

9:06Etienne FontanWell, a lot of things happening. We just found out this week that they've raised over $11.6 million for Prop 64 or AMA here in California. And that is, needless to say, exponential considering what happened for Prop 19, which didn't have as much money, needless to say. And our opposition only has spent $186,000. So we're literally...

9:33Etienne FontanThank you for joining us.

10:01Etienne FontanWelcome, Addison.

10:02AddisonHey. Welcome, Addison. What's up, guys?

10:04Etienne FontanNo, no, no. That's welcome, bubblegum, bubblegum. Look at that.

10:09SpeakerWhoa.

10:09BubblemanThat was loud. That was the name that showed up on your, on your, it says bubblegum something. It disappeared, but welcome, Addison. Hey, guys. How's it going? I got to get, do I need some headsets or are you guys good? You sound okay, but if you get an echo, you might want to have them close by. Okay. Let me, let me grab them. I got them right here.

10:29BubblemanWelcome, Tony.

10:32SpeakerTony!

10:34BubblemanThat's early for Tony.

10:36SpeakerIt's very early for me. Very early. You can hear it in his voice.

10:40Etienne FontanYou just did it for my birthday, Tony. Don't lie.

10:43SpeakerI ran around as fast as I could for you, my man. I really did.

10:47BubblemanBirthday rips. Birthday rips for Etienne. Birthday rips.

10:50SpeakerBirthday rips.

10:51BubblemanI want to see 594 people lighting their bong and blowing smoke towards the Vatican. It is Etienne's birthday.

10:59SpeakerThat's what I'm talking about. How old are you today?

11:07Etienne Fontan47 years young.

11:09SpeakerCome on, you're 47?

11:10Etienne FontanWow.

11:11SpeakerYep, 69 baby. Wow, you look good.

11:17Etienne FontanYeah. I credit not alcohol and cannabis beyond measure for why I look the way I do because people are like, You don't look past your mid-30s. I'm like, that's good.

11:26BubblemanThat's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying right there. You know, I was in a skate park yesterday in Whistler, being the old guy with the gray beard around all these kids shredding on the skateboards. And it's late at night. I'm with my 12-year-old son, and this young kid, he's about 17, he comes up to my son and he's like, hey, where are you from? What's going on?

11:46BubblemanWhat's your name? And I hear him and I can tell he's under the influence probably of alcohol. Eventually I find out it's actually alcohol and lean. And this kid is just a mess. So I sit and talk to him for a while and I say, listen man, this is not the thing. Coming to the skate park and drinking alcohol or consuming lean... Thank you for watching.

12:34BubblemanThe night you would have had had you just enjoyed cannabis would have been very, very different from the night that you're having right now. It was a neat form of activism to do where you go to the skate park and you talk to these younger kids and you say, listen, there are better options than what you're currently doing right now.

12:55Etienne FontanSo I've noticed this lean stuff. So what is it and how does it come out? It's apparently everywhere. A lot of kids like it. I've even seen making marijuana extract to mimic it.

13:08SpeakerYou're sounding 57 instead of 47 right now.

13:10Etienne FontanI'm an old man now, so I don't know any things.

13:14SpeakerLean is promethazine, which is called syrup. Yeah. And it's fucking heroin, honestly. I mean, it's liquid heroin. And it's one of the most ridiculous things because they're not just drinking lean. They're doubling up with Xanax and lean. I mean, I can get that high by eating some oil. Never mind. I don't need to do that.

13:38AddisonIt is crazy. It's crazy stuff.

13:40SpeakerI mean, it's pharmaceutical drugs, essentially. They're fucking, they're allowing pharmaceutical companies to pump drugs into every which place you can find. And if you and I made, you know, a drug, like, if we stamped our heroin with the name ATN's fucking delight, and we put that on the street, they'd eventually find it and they'd arrest them. But this shit is coming from Large pharmaceutical distributors, and it gets into the environment, it gets into the community, and they do fucking nothing about it.

14:09SpeakerRidiculous. So is this a prescription or an over-the-counter thing? Prescription. Prescription. Yeah.

14:15BubblemanYou know, what do they do? They mix it with different things. They mix it with, like, Sprite, or they mix it with Purple Drink, or they mix it with, like, Red Bull or some shit. It's just, it's nasty shit. And to see this young kid, you know, he asked my son where he was from five or six times, and I said, bro, your brain is frozen right now.

14:35BubblemanDo you understand that you came to the skate park with a frozen brain? This is going to damage you, man. The fact that they can say that cannabis is going to have an effect on a young brain developing While completely ignoring the fact that the majority of the things that are available to children can affect their brain function and the way they develop things like alcohol, things like lean, it just made me shake my head and be happy that my son, who's 12 years old, could see the difference between his dad, who had just taken about seven dabs, flying through the skate park compared to this kid on lean, 17, Thank you for watching.

15:33BubblemanYeah, well, thanks to the hip-hop artists. And you know, when I say the hip-hop artists, I'm talking about the ones that seem to be almost like an agenda to make true hip-hop culture look bad, to destroy true hip-hop culture. Because, man, there are some dudes out there right now who basically... They promote this lean, they promote this, you know, no bars, no lyrics, no ability to freestyle, no ability to really even sound like they're talented.

16:01BubblemanAnd you can see it in a lot of these young artists. It's kind of a bummer. I guess we're getting old, hey?

16:09Etienne FontanWell, as somebody's putting out here, you've got this stuff like Crocodile, which is... Thank you for watching.

16:32SpeakerThank you for watching.

16:55SpeakerYou know, a couple puffs of DMT is good for you. I think there's a lot of things out there that are mind-expanding that are good things. It's just when you start using those things to the point where you're asking a little kid five times where they're from when you're slamming in the fucking skate park. I don't blame the rappers. I mean, I think the rappers are entertainers.

17:12SpeakerIt's their job to create an image that entertains people, that engages people, and they're doing their fucking job, I think. You know, when NWA said, fuck the police, we didn't have a problem with that, but, you know, and that, now the police kill more people than promethazine. So it's really, I look at it more or less as like, as an observer, you know, I mean, would I say that I wouldn't sip lean?

17:35SpeakerLike, no, I mean, that's fucking, I'd give that shit a whirl and say, hey, you know, I fucking tried it, whatever, if the mood was right, if everything was okay, but it's all about, you know, being responsible, and I think if pharmaceutical companies are allowed to produce this shit, And such an oversupply that it's all over the fucking place, you know? That's the major part of the problem.

17:58SamDo you consider it a hard drug?

18:00SpeakerFuck yeah, I consider it a hard drug.

18:01SamIt's heroin. Well, let me tell you, hard drugs are simple. If you like them, you should never take them. If you don't like them, you should never take them.

18:10SpeakerIt's that simple. Self-control. You should take anything you want as far as I'm concerned.

18:17SamIf you liked it, you better not take it.

18:19BubblemanSam and I know. Sam and I have these somewhat addictive personalities, at least towards cannabis resin. And I'll tell you, if I liked cannabis resin, or if I liked lean the way I liked cannabis resin, I'm certain I would be probably perished by now.

18:34SpeakerYou'd be leaned out, bro. I'd be leaned out. I'd be like this.

18:38SamI have seen people who took, you know, whether it was heroin or cocaine or pre-base or whatever, the first time, and their eyes glazed over, and they said to me, this is what I've been looking for my whole life. There you go. Hey, that guy found what he was looking for.

18:56SpeakerThose are people that are not fucking taken. Dude, I see people at the gym... Thank you for watching.

19:18SpeakerHey, there you go. And then get the fuck out of the way. Look, we can't police everybody to tell them what's right or wrong. I mean, we all love hash. That's why we're in this group. That's why we're talking about it. But are we the most responsible hash users in the world? I don't know. I'm definitely a responsible promethazine user because I don't abuse the shit or use it.

19:38SpeakerI mean, if I get a cold, I'm stoked. If I get a cold, I drink fucking NyQuil and I sleep for a day. Thank you for watching.

20:05SpeakerBut then that's our judgment on that person, you know? Maybe that guy is dimming or trying to slow down as many things that came into his life that he can't handle. So, I mean, I try not to judge. I try to just look at it and say, hey, you know, do your thing, man. And, you know, I could give you some advice, but at the same time, you know, don't try to fucking push that shit on my kids or push that shit on me, you know?

20:27BubblemanYeah. He certainly wasn't trying to push the agenda whatsoever. I just really felt like as a father... I felt like, damn, like, too bad. Bummer choice. But hey, that's how we learn. I learned most of the shit I learned not doing shit right, but making mistakes and doing shit wrong. In fact, while I was in the skate park, I told my son, who couldn't quite get around the whole snake into the bowl, I said, just go do it wrong a couple hundred more times and you'll get it right.

20:56Etienne FontanThere you go. So how did you know this guy was on it? Was he like pouring his stuff into a cup or was he drinking out of a cup?

21:02BubblemanNo, I can tell right away with people. I can tell by his level of what he was perceiving. His perceivable levels had gone down by probably more than 50%. And it wasn't just drunk. It was a little different. So I asked him, what have you been doing tonight? Did you freeze your brain? And he said, yeah, yeah, I was drinking and then I was taking this stuff called lean.

21:23BubblemanIt was his first time actually taking it.

21:26SpeakerSo... Hopefully he's last.

21:28BubblemanYeah, who knows? I hope he wasn't hurt, that's all. I'm glad my son got to learn the lesson through him rather than through his own lesson, so that was a bonus.

21:38SpeakerYou should have pulled him close and said, hey kid, you ever tried Terps? You need some Terps. You need some Terps in your life, boy.

21:45BubblemanGoogle Tony Terpene, you'll be fine. Prometha Terps. Oh, Prometha Terps.

21:53SpeakerI know this is the 101. I had a couple inquiries from people. I get a lot of questions. What's the difference between 99% hemp CBD and say CBD derived from cannabis? That question gets asked a lot. And then there was another one. Why Why things butter out versus not. I was wondering if you guys had put together any questions for the 101 since it's the 101 episode.

22:26SpeakerIs this for Pinsky's homework assignment?

22:28BubblemanYeah, this is Pinsky's homework assignment.

22:31SpeakerAre you going on Vice Land, Tony? Is that what this is? No, I actually haven't spoken to Pinsky or know what you're talking about, but it was actually from Matt's conversation downtown in San Francisco at a center, and we were talking. I get a lot of people asking me that, though, lately. The difference between, you know, a hemp-derived CBD or a cannabis-derived CBD and what's the difference when it's at 99% if there is a difference?

22:57SpeakerAnd what's those effects with and without terpenes? So, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just coming to the table. I like the question, is CBD CBD? I mean, if you use ChemStation on a mass spec and you identify CBD if it comes from hemp or if it comes from, you know, There it is. There it is.

23:28BubblemanIt'd just be interesting. I mean, it makes total sense, the science behind it, the molecule, the weight, everything. It just seems as though I wonder if we're ever going to have a deeper understanding of what's going on and learn that, oh, there are actually some underlining things that go on with these pure cannabinoids. Maybe we haven't discovered at this point, but...

23:50SpeakerWell, like, differences at the quark level or something?

23:53BubblemanYeah, well, differences in the cultivar level. Differences in the same way that what makes, like Mark, for instance, you are a human being, but something makes you unique. You know, something makes you different than me. Even though we have very similar biological functions, we have different brain patterns and different brain waves. And you just wonder if there's some other differences in the plant that go beyond the taking it apart and saying, this is what it's made up of.

24:22SpeakerWell, once you've had the purified molecule in hand, you know, and that's why I'm always a stickler for melting point, because melting point is just such a great indicator of purity. If it's pure, it should melt right at the literature reported melting point. So if it's crystalline and it's nothing but CBD, that CBD doesn't know where the hell it came from. It could have came from the moon or Mars.

24:44SpeakerThere's no like carbon 13 dating technique or something to look at the, I mean it just, I look at it this way. From the point of view is it's mostly just perception. It's how we as humans perceive it. So, oh, that came from a hemp plant which has grown, Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back.

25:27SpeakerAnd beta-caryophyllene from catmint is the same as beta-caryophyllene from cannabis. Why would Mother Nature use a different set of molecules uniquely for this plant?

25:39BubblemanThe same way that pretends through our belief systems that we could see, oh, that's a drug cultivar and that's a hemp cultivar. Maybe there's a difference through our belief systems. Perhaps, too, our limitations in science, And our belief systems and what we know through science will also one day change is all that I'm putting on the table.

25:58SpeakerWell, and think about that and how placebo effects work. So the human mind, if they're convinced something's going to do something, 50% sometimes of those studies are placebo. So the mind affects maybe the outcome a little bit too. Well, it does, too, but to speak to what Scaldone just said, I mean, actually, cannabis does produce chemicals unique to every other plant in the kingdom. I mean, done methyl tryptamines in over 20 plants, THCs in only one.

26:27SpeakerSo we're not talking about something that is unique. You know, terpenes have... Hey, cannabis, Todd, don't get me wrong. Cannabis does have its unique chemistry. I totally get that. But I'm saying, like, mostly underlying, like, the terpenes and all the other phytochemicals that exist in cannabis... Are, you know, conserved throughout the plant kingdom. I mean, they're the same chemicals. So, limonene, just for example, or any of the terpenes, I guess, for the most part, you could never determine if they're distilled and they're cannabinoid free that they were derived from cannabis.

26:59SpeakerHey, not to cut you off, but you guys realize the YouTube feed is down? Uh-oh.

27:04Etienne FontanUh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh. No, just do a refresh. I see it's still going.

27:14SpeakerYeah, it's still going. Yeah, I think the greatest thing about all this is that it's so simple. I mean, it's really, like Todd was saying, THC is produced in cannabis, and THC is in every single person that I'm looking at on this page here in front of me. And I'm looking at a lot of people, by the way, that have done good for themselves, that have used cannabis, that have spread the word of cannabis and created great businesses and live what looks to be a good life because of cannabis.

27:45SpeakerAnd it's that simple. It's really, I mean, we were just talking about promethazine. If we were in a promethazine group, Thank you for watching.

28:16SpeakerWhat's so great about it is how fucking harmless it is, how we can all sit here.

28:20SamActually, it's only the same stuff if it's 100% pure. If it's not 100% pure, then there is a different mixture with each one.

28:29SpeakerWell, if it's derived from the same thing and the course, in fact, which people took to make it was the same course, in fact, they all took to make it, then all the way down the whole path it's the same thing. It's just the end result, based upon its purity, may be different, but it's all the same fucking thing. My example was comparing 99.9%.

28:51BubblemanIn Thailand, they just say same, same, but different.

28:57SpeakerWell, and I always say that's why I love terpene so much, because when we were talking about it as the instrument, if CBD and THC and all of the cannabinoids were the different strings, you know, they were just sitting there, but you need a guitar player, you need somebody to strum, you need somebody to play, and that would be your terpene, so. It's like very boring and flat unless you have some kind of synergistic experience with the rest of the plant.

29:23SpeakerBut yeah, it's also another interesting thing because I was trying to think of topics because there's the 101 to get us going. You know, some people out there don't understand what hash church is. They just think that we sit here and smoke hash the whole day, which may be true for me. I do sit here and smoke cash the entire time on Hash Church. It's my religious day.

29:46SpeakerIt's my day to be able to do that. I don't do that every single day all day long, for those that know me. Yes, you do. Well, he would, but he doesn't have enough drool. Yeah. I mean, it's not like as it is nonstop, but no, this is the one day that we all come together. We all have our different products in front of us, and everybody gets that day to relax, to just enjoy their medicine and their products, and some that make it.

30:19SpeakerIt's a time to kick back and then come together. It's kind of like a digital session for those that are watching. That's how this started. It's the digital sessions of the mind. We all get to talk about very interesting things, and... You know, sometimes we get off subject, but a lot of times information covered is honestly mind-blowing. There's a lot of information. It's 101 episodes of four hours long, so it's over 400 hours of information.

30:44SpeakerWhat I've found is that most of us don't even realize it, but I'll go back later and there'll be all these amazing questions or there'll be all these things that kind of come out of the session, this digital session, that people really gain something from it. I mean, I think all of us as friends, we're all kind of chatting and And whenever I come on here, I always try to put a post up and say, you know, do you have any questions?

31:05SpeakerLike, does anyone have a question that they want to present to the rest of the group? Because that's kind of the most fun way I've been able to engage with everybody here. So, I mean, me and Todd had a great Hash Church pre-game session yesterday for, I think, an hour or so on the phone. And it was great, but people can't ask questions and that stuff. We're here, you know, I mean, I'm sure ATN or, you know, Mark or Tony or Todd, I mean, anybody could get, I mean, I love the questions.

31:33SpeakerI love the fact that these people later on, you see these questions and you could sit there for a while and answer them and actually, you know, there's more to it than just ripping turps and kind of hanging out in your house, so. So, one really crazy interesting thing, and This is just a fun fact that got passed around in the lab by a woman named Janice who is Space's mom actually.

31:59SpeakerI did not believe this so you guys are going to definitely have to look this up. But we were talking about terpenes and we were talking about like natural flavorings and things like that. And when you see on the packaging natural flavoring and if it's not vegan, it's not certified vegan, And it says natural flavoring. Have you ever wondered what's in natural flavoring? Have you ever looked up what's in there?

32:23BubblemanNothing good. Anything. Probably something great. Everything. Everything. Anything.

32:31SpeakerIf I told you that the flavor of raspberry, strawberry, and vanilla.

32:37BubblemanBeaver caster from the anal glands of a beaver. Exactly.

32:43SpeakerYes, with microbutanil.

32:44BubblemanDude, I told my kids that and they were just like...

32:51SamThat's natural.

32:54Etienne FontanWell, it's the same as, you know, the natural in the, what is it, Slim Jims. They use worms. So it just depends. There's all different things without our food groups that we ingest all the time that we have no idea where it comes from.

33:08SpeakerHey, hey! Imagine the guy that documented that, though. He's like, let me taste a little bit of this anal gland from a beaver. And he's like, wow, that tastes just like... Strawberry, raspberry, berry vanilla. I think I'm going to use that for natural flavoring across the world.

33:27BubblemanHonestly, do you think that would be any more disgusting than the first guy that decided to suck on a cow's tit?

33:36SpeakerOr to lick a frog and trip for days.

33:39BubblemanYeah, people are out there, man.

33:41SpeakerI can tell natural flavoring in everything. Well, the beaver ass guy is officially the nastiest motherfucker I've ever seen. When you're eating beaver ass like groceries, you've got serious fucking problems.

33:54SamThere's one worse, and that's the guy who sucks on the beaver's tits.

33:59SpeakerHey. I don't know. That's the child of a beaver, I think.

34:02BubblemanI think we all went to school with that guy.

34:04SpeakerYeah.

34:05BubblemanFor five bucks, he would do anything.

34:07SpeakerThere's a lot of things rehab can't fix, and that's fucking one of them, right? I think sucking on a tit is low, low, low level. I mean, eating anal glands from a beaver. Now that is some dirty, nasty, funky, weird shit. That is an episode of Viceland all in of itself right there. That's for sure.

34:26BubblemanWell, I mean, you've got to hope that he was, you know, processing it, that he was taking it apart and using it for different things when he came across. I'm hoping he didn't just find a beaver and be like, hmm.

34:38SpeakerYou know, it could have been an accident. He could have slipped and fallen and his face landed in a beaver's ass. Would that be called an accident? That probably would, I mean, at that point. It could be at that point. I mean, this guy could have just been in the lab. He was eating a sandwich. He was, like, cutting up, dissecting a beaver. He dropped something, thought he ate something, and it was anal glands.

35:00SpeakerI mean, I don't know how you would discover it. You could have. I mean, if the guy, look, if you're a flavor scientist and you're researching and you start to analyze this stuff and you see, Thank you for watching.

35:36SpeakerYou know what I'm saying? There's all kinds of shit going down out there. I'm just not the guy. I'm not the one. And I heard people would walk a mile to smoke a camel, too.

35:45Etienne FontanIt tastes like guacamole, Addy.

35:47BubblemanWhat the fuck are you talking about? This goes back to something Michael just said, which was like, well, it's just a molecule. Who cares where it comes from? Exactly.

35:54SpeakerExactly.

35:55BubblemanVery good point.

35:58SpeakerI don't want anal molecules. Well, stop. Throw it right out there and say I don't want anal molecules. Well, don't eat or drink anything that has natural flavoring that's vanilla, strawberry, or raspberry.

36:11BubblemanIs this where John Davis comes on and tells us he actually discovered the method for extracting and processing anal, beaver anal glands with... With butane.

36:22SamIs it true, John? No, no, he just has a higher recovery rate.

36:27BubblemanAh, yes. Welcome, John. We are having quite a conversation here today.

36:32JohnGood morning, John. Welcome, Andrew. Morning, everyone. Glad to see nobody's in jail.

36:41Etienne FontanThere you go. We're just talking anal glands.

36:44SpeakerYeah, I pity where you joined us in the conversation, but welcome, welcome, and please help change the conversation from anal glands.

36:55Etienne FontanWe were talking natural flavorings and where they come from, and they were enlightening us on where strawberry and raspberry and vanilla and natural flavors come from.

37:04SpeakerToday was the day that Beaver Ass Extracts was born on... Here on the Hash Church, too, so. Beaver clips.

37:12BubblemanOf course, Natasha's, her part is to, called castoreum from the anal glands, beaver use it to mark their territory along with urine. There you go.

37:23SpeakerWelcome, Fletch. It all has to do with love. What's up, Fletch?

37:27BubblemanArchive in the house. It's interesting because he only usually comes in, almost only, during conversations that he wants to be a part of. So when I saw him come in at the end of this conversation, I was like, man, it must be a fluke.

37:41SpeakerFletch is a beaver ass man, for sure. Yeah, he's a beaver ass. He wants to talk about beaver ass. Look at him. He wants to get into it. Let's go. It's all about the ass turfs. Yep.

37:50BubblemanSee? Fletch knows what's up. Oh my God. That's just wrong.

37:55Etienne FontanWe have totally turned into ass church, haven't we? It's happened. This conversation is an accident.

38:00SpeakerWhere's R. Kelly when you need him? That's the thing.

38:04BubblemanUp to no good, you know that.

38:07SpeakerFuck yeah. He's probably in Canada of all places. I think that this conversation proves that when you do so many dabs, you do really get high, and we have a whole panel to prove that you can get really high and easily distracted with some strange-ass shit. I'm not even high. You're slacking. I'm just dirty. Get out the headphones and get high, Addy. All right. We were talking about the molecules being the same, so that's why I brought up the natural flavoring.

38:35SpeakerBecause I didn't know if you felt that, you know, whether knowing that it came from that or not changed your mind about those natural flavors. It's true. Curse you, Tony. Curse you.

38:44Etienne FontanI mean, it's a delicacy.

38:46SpeakerDelicacy is always weird.

38:48Etienne FontanAre we going to get cannabis terpenes mixed with anal glands now? Are we going to get some pure ass terps?

38:54SpeakerThat beaver collab from fucking Tony Veruzza is coming down the line right now. No, I'm staying on the hardcore derived from cannabis only campaign. But there are a lot of other elements that are out there in the industry and so be it. I just was looking up natural flavoring to see what was in them.

39:14BubblemanYou know, from my perspective, knowing that the DEA has had this knowledge and the US government has had this knowledge for a long time about the medicinal aspects of other cannabinoids, I always felt that when they said, you know, when they went in and told the Ukrainians that get rid of THC or get rid of hemp, a plant they had been growing for many, many decades, I always felt that they had an underlining knowledge that as long as THC wasn't there, the medicinal components of the plants would be surely lacking, and that's why they would allow it to happen.

39:47BubblemanAnd it was just sort of a theory of my own, but it's why I kind of always came from this perspective that Maybe there is something going on different in these molecules when THC is present. Not just in the synergy, obviously in the entourage, we know that for a fact, but also perhaps something else. And it was just my own mild theory that really no proof of science to it whatsoever, but I sure won't be surprised in 20 years from now when we learn more.

40:16BubblemanHe's got the torch going.

40:21JohnWell, I hope you have it. Freezer stuck out in the Midwest with 2,313 flavors and fragrances that I extracted over these last years. But nobody ever sent me an anal gland to extract and I'm not looking forward to that. But I did extract a bunch of sponges once upon a time for Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute.

40:49BubblemanYou told us about the sponges. That's crazy.

40:52JohnJames Ashman is one of the scientists who investigates various things. And once, plenty of times, sent me a film which I've been looking for that they took while diving. They happened upon, I guess, 14 dolphins in a circle down in the Caribbean with one rather large dolphin Which seemed to be overseeing the whole thing and they were in a perfect circle. And the moment they noticed that my friend Jim and his dive partner came upon it they instantaneously disappeared.

41:33JohnBut that was an amazing thing from Woods Hole Institute. Anyway he used to send me Boxes of sponges to extract because they're looking for cancer cures all the time. It turns out that the butane extraction of the sponges got about 5,000% more than any other kind of extraction they could do on them.

41:54Etienne FontanWow. Hey, Andrew, have you seen that video of the dolphins passing around the puffer fish?

41:59BubblemanThat's what I thought he was going to talk about.

42:02Etienne FontanNo, I haven't. No, it's actually cited, it's a video, and it's actually these dolphins getting high off of puffer fish venom as they would pass it around into each other's mouth to trigger the puffer fish to secrete more.

42:19SpeakerYeah. I wonder if they think that when they look at us.

42:23BubblemanRight. I wonder if other dolphins are like, that shit's like promethazine, those dolphins are no good.

42:31Etienne FontanThat's not pure puffer fish, man. I know pure puffer fish, and that's in the Indian Ocean. That's just Australian puffer fish. That's China puffer fish.

42:38SpeakerThose guys are fucked.

42:40Etienne FontanThat shit's cut with Indian Ocean. That's so good. That's Mang.

42:44SpeakerThat's that Mang puffer fish.

42:45BubblemanIt's the Ann Mang puffer fish. My goodness. For those of you that don't know, Ann Mang is like, she comes up on all the glass posts, and she promotes, like, Chinese-made glass that's, you know, jacks the popular brands like Mothership and Hitman and other things.

43:04SpeakerNatasha has a good question, Andrea. What does a sponge smell like?

43:12JohnWell, it depends on which end you're holding up to your nose.

43:15SpeakerWhatever part of your body you just washed, I imagine.

43:19JohnYeah, whatever part of your head, depends on where you just washed. But the sponges that we got all the time just smelled like the ocean. They just smelled like fish. There wasn't anything special to them.

43:35SpeakerWhat did it smell like after you extracted and did your process?

43:40JohnThe sponges had nearly no smell to them afterwards. After the process was done, you could In fact, if I recall correctly, I think we used those sponges, the ones of them that we could, in our bathroom and in the kitchen for about three years after that, because they didn't want us to ship the sponges back, they just wanted the liquid. And the liquid that came out of them smelled like a tiny chemical factory.

44:11JohnI mean, it was horrendous. I held it up to my nose and took a sniff, and it just about put me on the floor.

44:18Etienne FontanWas that concentrated low tide or something?

44:23JohnNo, there was no water in the sponges when we got them. They were relatively recently alive, but the sponges apparently all produced various chemicals to protect themselves from being eaten since they're passive fishes on the bottom.

44:38SpeakerThey produce higher terpenes, much higher terpenes than are found in green plants. But they have terpenoids, macrocyclic lactones, all different kinds of chemistry out of sponges.

44:51JohnYeah. In fact, over 222 different chemicals that they could look at fairly immediately. And they were, usually they got about a teaspoon of material, and we sent them a quart. And they were Uh, beside themselves because they were like, oh boy, now we've got work for two years. Because I imagine, and I guess Dr. Natasha could tell us this, when they give you money for a program, that's what they give you the money for and nothing else.

45:24JohnYou just do that with it and you come up with those answers. And, uh, it means a job for that much time. Or it means money for that much time. And then who knows, you might be back on the dole again. But anyway. That's what they were doing. Woods Hole was a very interesting place because my friend Jim Ashwin worked there and he was always putting me on to a lot of new stuff they found in the ocean.

45:47JohnWoods Hole is badass. Say again? Say again?

45:52SpeakerI said Woods Hole is pretty badass. Oh, listen.

45:55JohnI just... You go there to spend a few days and you see one-tenth of one percent of the crap that's going on there and You know, you need to work there for a year or two and you can start getting into all the stuff that's happening there.

46:11SpeakerReminds me of a nicer Nova Scotia.

46:18JohnSorry, I'm in the Nova Scotia. Have you heard all those jokes?

46:25SpeakerSorry.

46:26JohnNova Scotia, I mean, they tell jokes about the Nova Scotians a lot, like, you know, like, how many Polacks does it take to put in a lightboat? But it's Nova Scotians.

46:39BubblemanWe'll take it.

46:40SpeakerNova Scotia rock. I've, you know, one of the best times I ever had was with a camp group that went to Nova Scotia for, like, five or six days, and it was fucking rad. I had a great time. I mean, I was an American kid up in Nova Scotia, And there were like ferret farms and all these weird crazy things that I saw. But it reminded me a lot of Woods Hole and some of the other very, you know, marshy kind of oceany spots.

47:06SpeakerSo it was a good time.

47:08JohnOh, yeah. Nothing against Nova Scotia. Listen, when I went there, I had the best time ever.

47:15BubblemanAnd don't feel bad for them. They're making fun of the Newfoundlanders.

47:19JohnOh, yeah, right. Very true.

47:21SpeakerAs long as it's a whipping boy, no matter where you are.

47:23SamAnd everybody knows it's the Belgians.

47:27BubblemanWhoa, where'd you get the plant, Sam?

47:31JohnThe Belgians are the Swiss Negroes.

47:35SamIt's an over 25-year-old clone from, it's called Hindu Kush. HK.

47:42BubblemanChrist, the HK, yeah, but his HK is like legit. His Hindu Kush is the real fucking Hindu Kush. Every other Hindu Kush I ever had was nothing like what he has.

47:55SpeakerAnd isn't Hindu Kush the baby poo kind of like that sort of, I mean speaking of turps, the Hindu Kush doesn't have that sort of baby poo flavor or that smell to it?

48:06SamThe pure Hindu Kush is not what I would call a sweetie. You know, both Hindu Kush and Hindu Kush Time Skunk won Legends Hash Cup at least once, maybe twice, I forget, from Robbie, remember? Oh yeah. It was quite spectacular and it was water hash.

48:32BubblemanYeah, which for Sam is saying a lot. Sam has a hard time. Like even the way he said, and it was water hash. Like how could water hash be spectacular?

48:42SpeakerNo, I've got to, not to change the subject, but I've been thinking about hash church. I'm sorry, I've been thinking about legends. And again, one of the best times I've ever had out of the U.S. was, you know, Was going to Amsterdam and getting to go to Legends. What's going to happen with Legends? Are we ever going to have an American Legends event at one of these other events that's as exclusive as Legends was?

49:06SpeakerI would put down for this.

49:07SamWe're going to have it at the White House, but we're just hoping Trump doesn't win.

49:12SpeakerYeah, that's what I was going to say. Maybe if Hillary gets in and we can do it with Bill, that would make much more sense.

49:17BubblemanIt's really just a matter of us getting into the country and doing it. I can see it happening. We did it in Spain last year, and although I got sick as a dog and missed the whole thing, it was still fun and people loved it.

49:29SamIt was very successful and people really liked it.

49:33BubblemanRight. Well, we'll do it again next year in Spain for Spanibus, and once I get my waiver and can come back into the U.S., we'll plan for one down in California. Can't you surf to the U.S.? I mean, it's not that hard. Dude, I'm going to do it with permission. I'm not breaking any laws. There's no reason the U.S. will want to keep me out of the country.

49:54BubblemanI'll be a good citizen while I'm there.

49:57SpeakerI'm going to apply properly through waivers. I mean, you've done half as much bad stuff as most of us in the U.S. I don't know why they wouldn't let you in.

50:05BubblemanOh, just the standard rules, the felony charges on my record. They're just...

50:15SpeakerThat's what we need to fix about the system and the plant. It's nothing else.

50:19SamIt's just the fact that they put these stupid rules on it. It's also the Canadians. They did it to me.

50:25BubblemanYeah. Yeah, and we do it too, of course. We do it too. We don't let people into the country.

50:32SpeakerThey mess with me going in and out of Canada all the time. I'm pretty terrified to go there just because it's always like a shakedown. You know, like, I'm not doing anything wrong, but I feel like I am. I'm dirty or something.

50:44SamYou used that anal gland from a beaver and you slipped right through.

50:48SpeakerI'll just start, I'll just chew on a couple glands when you walk up there, like, a little bag, a little bag of them.

50:56Etienne FontanOne behind each ear, man, one behind each ear. Earrings.

51:00SpeakerWhat is that you're chewing on? Let me see what you're chewing on. Is that beaver ass that you're chewing on? Are you trying to bring this into the country? What is this? This is anal pants? They probably have a sign at the Canadian border that says a no beaver ass zone of some sorts. They're transporting, so.

51:16Etienne FontanNo American beaver ass, only Canadian beaver ass.

51:19BubblemanListen, you guys laugh, but I guarantee you at the Vancouver International Airport, they have probably seen the craziest shit ever. Anal glands included and not just the beavers because Chinese culture here in Vancouver, which we have a lot of, they have all sorts of trippy medicines, gallbladders and weird shit from different animals and they're constantly getting busted trying to bring it into the country. I think there's even a TV show about it.

51:48BubblemanIt's called medicine, my friend, okay?

51:53SpeakerI was also a witness to that when I came into Vancouver. They said, you know, I was walking out and I saw Freedom and they're right this way, sir. And I was like, this way? And they're like, right this way? And I went to the right and it was a long hallway and when I got to the end it was a long line of people of just like having worldly stuff and I had like a backpack, you know, and a little bag with me.

52:15SpeakerAnd that's when I saw them shake down that family that was coming from like I don't know, somewhere in China or somewhere in Asia. I don't really know, but they had to open up those banana leaves. They had multiple layers of leaves with spices and different kinds of live brain and weird shit that was going on. The lady was from Canada. She was like, open that up.

52:41SpeakerThe lady was like, oh, no, no, no. She's trying to talk to her. She's opening up this crazy stuff. She's like, no, that's not going to happen. What? Thank you for watching.

53:13SpeakerYeah, but the lady was like, you just can't have it, and she was like looking around, and there was just no, there was such a language barrier, it was just like, and the guy, the husband was so tired, he had so much worldly possessions with him, he was like, like whatever the lady said, he was just like, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, yes, yes, yes, and then he got what he needed to get, and they were, they let him do the country.

53:39BubblemanYeah, it's pretty wild some of the things that people try to bring into the country. I'm just trying to get into the country. I'm not trying to bring anything, although I will admit I do travel with my mothership and my rig, but not hash, nothing illegal, so I usually feel pretty confident. Not to mention, I don't even think they would know what the hell the shit like this even is.

54:02SpeakerDon't bet anything on that. Yeah, don't bet against that. They have this thing called YouTube. And they fuck off at work, and they probably watch this thing called Hash Church, and they'd be like, I've seen that before.

54:13BubblemanListen, I guarantee you, the shit they're watching on YouTube is not fucking Hash Church. They're probably watching people blow shit up with thermite, let's be honest. Could be.

54:27SpeakerPlease. That's funny. Does that have its own station?

54:30BubblemanOh, fuck yeah, dude. You haven't seen the thermite station? It's amazing.

54:34SpeakerNo, no, no. I've never seen a group overestimate or underestimate things like law enforcement than any other group in my entire life.

54:41BubblemanYeah, there you go. I think it's called cognitive dissonance.

54:46SpeakerYeah, it could be true. I think it's called being a fucking douchebag.

54:55BubblemanWell, I will say this. I do know some nice cops that aren't douchebags.

54:59SpeakerYeah, I know a couple too. Fuck. So what is that?

55:04JohnFour?

55:04SpeakerAnd I'm going to say this. You know what? Someone steals my fucking truck and I ain't calling a fireman. Right? Well, I mean, I would call somebody whose job it is to do that. That's the thing. You know what's funny? My issue with law enforcement isn't that. It's that. They fucking, you know, the worst thing I've seen lately is the video of the man who's trying to help a disabled child and he's sitting on the ground with his hands up and they fucking shoot him.

55:30SpeakerYeah, I had a Miami thing. But I want to say this. You know what? I went through prison after five years of hanging out in prison with a lot of prisoners. I had a lot more respect and admiration for the fucking poor prison guards that got to babysit these turds than I did the prisoners that I was in with. You're not a criminal. No, I'm not. I'm a pothead.

55:49SpeakerExactly. And that is all in all honesty why I don't have any negative feelings towards cops because at the end of the day, you know what, you want them to enforce the laws that are correctly enforced. You know, you don't want them enforcing, you know, some flowers in a kid's pocket and this is really where I think we lose control. The drug war caused us to lose respect and connection with what they really did in society, which was once upon a time a great thing because there was, in my experience of seeing them in prison, a lot of real assholes in the world.

56:25SpeakerAnd without these guys, this place would be wild, wild west. And honestly, in that refrain, I'm glad we have cops. I'm really glad we have firemen. I'm glad we have EMT people. All these people are fucking heroes when someone's getting murdered or your kid gets kidnapped or some shit goes down you don't like. But the drug war has fucked up their relationship with society. If we lose the drug war, these people will be on the side of good and not on the side of evil.

56:55SpeakerAnd I also think the drug war has infiltrated some of those law enforcement as well. You don't have to wonder, Tony. If you go back in the history of prohibition of alcohol, it was three out of four federal agents were corrupt.

57:13JohnWell, that's the only place they have to get money from because that job doesn't pay crap. And so these guys break into these places. Well, okay, I won't say break in. These people use a drummed up search warrant based on lies to get in to look your stuff over. Once they get in and look it over, they start dividing it up. Believe me, I was in a house in Colorado a number of years ago that 13 police cars pulled up and out in the middle of nowhere, way up high outside of Boulder, but up at 11,900 feet, and 13 cop cars came in and

57:55JohnMy friend had one measly plant growing, but somebody had phoned the police and ratted him out, and this was before everything was legal, and they went in there and they found this one scraggly ass little pot plant that was nearly dead, and because of that, they confiscated a beautiful gun collection from him, and a lot of cash, and he never got any of it back, and those guys that did it, you know, I I've seen crooks and robbers before, and there was never a clear picture of a bunch of crooks that these guys were who went in that house.

58:35JohnThey handcuffed me and a few other people and a pregnant lady, and they finally decided we were just visitors and let us go, but not until we sat around for five hours in handcuffs, and they searched us, searched our car. They had no rights. No reason to search our cars, but they're out of control because they tell lies and people who are in control of those situations allow for it.

59:05JohnThey say it's okay. They're tools.

59:09SpeakerThey're tools. They're a tool that's used as a mechanism to control society and that's what the fuck they do and they get paid to do it.

59:17JohnWell, yes, they are doing that and they do get paid to do it, but... The scenario is, where does that rule come from that they are paid to come in and fuck with people who are having a plant? No plant or animal should be illegal. That's obnoxious. I mean, we're all born here. Somebody comes along who's here before us and says, no, you can't have that plant.

59:41JohnYou can have all the other ones, but you can't have that one. And I'm not a Bible thumper, but gee whiz, in the Bible it says every seed...

59:51JohnI mean, this plant covers all three of those.

59:54SpeakerI love your quote, Genesis 129. It was fun with Jack because debating the Christians was always the most amusing thing to me because I would always go right to the Bible and go, have you read the Bible? They say yes. I go, okay, so you made it past page one, right? Genesis 129. And then the last page, you know, Revelations 222, The Water of River of Life.

1:00:21SpeakerAnd it's funny, but hemp really, cannabis really does depict what they're talking about in both instances real well.

1:00:33JohnIt's not about the cannabis, Todd, or it's not about any of the things that they say it's about. It's about control. It's very simply ultimate, complete control. There's a law for everything in this country. Don't kid yourself to think, wow, we're not... You know, I was in Moscow. I was a Russian. I saw what the Russians are doing. I had a very good friend who brought me there and kept me...

1:00:59JohnWhen I was in India, I worked at a free hospital. He used to bring me to Moscow all the time to work on him. And I saw everything going on in Moscow that we have going on here. These guys were smoking pot. They've had Big grows, they had everything going. And, you know, they say, people here say, oh, Russia, you know, you can't do anything, everything's controlled.

1:01:19JohnNot really.

1:01:22BubblemanWell, and cannabis is the ultimate. It removes that sort of, you know, from my perspective, first I got into it, it removed certain controls that were being put on my thought mechanisms that I didn't realize were there. And as I smoked and smoked and smoked, I started putting together different things in my economics. I was like, oh, this is expensive stuff. Maybe if I sold a little, I could make some money.

1:01:44BubblemanAll my friends seem to like my ability. My nose seems to find the good stuff. I'll be able to maybe make a little profit off that ability. Suddenly, you're free of working a 9-to-5 job. Someone's got an echo. I'm not sure if it's Indra or Addison. I'll mute you both there for a second. So this, you know, for me it was the ultimate in being removed from the ultimate control, which is you're coming out of high school and you're getting a job, you're about to transfer into either paying a bunch of money or going into debt to learn from school or to just start hustling and working a job, which is the route that I went.

1:02:22BubblemanI worked hard, I worked like double shifts and worked all sorts of shitty gas station jobs and And what I eventually found was that cannabis could remove that major control that I've seen even my parents suffering from. And my grandparents suffering from growing up in a sort of middle class, maybe even the lower class just jumping into the middle class as I turned around 11 or 12 because we used to live in one neighborhood and my dad had to work real hard to get us up into this other neighborhood.

1:02:52BubblemanThat's a major form of control and cannabis removed that from me because I was really good at selling it.

1:03:01BubblemanKind of trippy thought I had anyway. Now that I've muted everyone.

1:03:07JohnWell, they invented money as a means of control and they only let people like you and your family have a small amount of money unless something extraordinarily happens. The money is the biggest illusion on this planet. Hey, by the way, not to change the subject, but you know that little thing I've been doing? I have clearly worked out a way to make the THCA fall out of a solution by not adding too much of anything.

1:03:40JohnThey fall out of a solution in white, beautiful crystals. And I took a bunch yesterday, took them out of the tank and dried them up and they dry really nicely. They look beautiful. Today I'm working on making the first CBD crystals because if this works out as... Pure and easy as the THCA crystal thing worked out. I'm going to grow one monstrous crystal from the results.

1:04:08BubblemanNice, dude. Yeah, those pictures looked nice. The photographer in me wanted them to be higher quality, but it looked like you had some trippy shit going on there.

1:04:16JohnOh, there's Mike West. My high quality photography is the iPhone.

1:04:23BubblemanRight. Well, you can't nail everything.

1:04:30BubblemanWe'll invite Mike West in. I forgot about Mike West.

1:04:34SpeakerI'm so busy. You know, you were talking about, Mark, the reason why you started using cannabis. As you were talking, I was thinking to myself that I think the main reason I use cannabis is because I have so many issues with authority. And it's the only thing that sort of just makes it so I really don't give any fucks about authority. I can kind of stand in line and And do whatever's asked of me at that moment.

1:04:56SpeakerBut that's really the main, I think now when police, if they do ask me why I use cannabis, I'm going to tell them it's because I have a problem with authority. Because I think that I've figured that one out at this point.

1:05:09BubblemanMakes sense. There's definitely a percentage of us that has a problem with authority. I had a very unique upbringing in the sense that my mother spent, I don't know, 25 or 30 years being the head of 911 for the city that I lived in. So not only did I literally know every cop, because every cop in the city knew who my mother was. So it was a very unique way that...

1:05:34BubblemanWhereas most of my friends were terrified of the police, I knew 9.9 times out of 10 that no matter what was going on, really, literally, and I'm talking like 2 in the morning, just left the bar with my friend, my car got broken into so my whole window's just got a big hole in it on the back, and they stole his backpack, so we're driving home and we get pulled over.

1:05:55BubblemanMy friend, who's native, is extremely afraid. He assumes we're probably going to be going to jail because they're going to think we stole the car or some other shit. And they're kind of mean if you don't know them. It ended up being my neighbor from the cabin, Mark, this guy Mark, who I don't really know him that well, but he came over to the car looking like he was ready to bust our heads, and then he looked at me and he was like, Mark?

1:06:20BubblemanI'm like, oh, hey, and then it was like, hey, you know, you guys should get home right away. You're going to get pulled over with a hole in your window like that at 2 in the morning and basically just let us go. So it's a different perspective when you have the perspective of them kind of, oh, that's Paulette's son, just don't even bother with that. And that's, of course, the way humans work.

1:06:39BubblemanIt's not just cops doing that. It's any group of people take care of their own. It's just kind of how it goes. Now, when you're not in that group of people, and I certainly wasn't in that group of people, yet I benefited from it, I would say probably 187 times, maybe more. No joke. Tickets ripped up, let go with a stinky car of weed like a whole nine yards.

1:07:06BubblemanSo I also have a problem with authority, but I'll tell you, it's sure nice to have them on side. And now that I have a federal license, I don't feel in any way negative about the police. I don't look at them like that. I don't feel worried about their presence when They see me and I'm smoking or I have hash or I'm driving with my rig and my hash.

1:07:26BubblemanI don't feel any negative feelings about them since the law has changed on a federal level for me here in Canada.

1:07:34SpeakerWhat are the asset forfeiture laws in Canada?

1:07:38BubblemanYou know, I definitely haven't heard too much about them. I know that there was a big case that Mike Stramoski from... Advanced Nutrients went through. He had a case back in the day that helicopters and properties and trucks, and I'm pretty sure John Conroy ended up getting all that back for him. I don't think it's anything like the U.S. where they just like, woohoo, taking properties left, right, and center, but it definitely happens.

1:08:02BubblemanPeople have lost, I've heard of them taking clubhouses from From motorcycle gang. So I know it happens in Canada. I just don't think it's, you know, I got caught, for instance, with 16 and a half pounds at a roadblock at about 1.30 in the morning. I got no fine, no time. The judge ordered my money be given back. They never got to search my house because we didn't let them because we were found in a car.

1:08:26BubblemanThey came back to the house and asked if they could search and we said, no, you can't search and they left. So I think it's pretty good in that sense, but that's British Columbia. And if you were in Manitoba, it could be the difference between California and Oklahoma in the way they perceive the laws.

1:08:45SpeakerWell, I mean, in California, you've got to give up a third of your, say you got stopped with $100,000 in California. You see these guys and we work in businesses where a lot of us it's cash business because of the way the banking system is. And then a lot of us love glass. So for a guy like me, if I've got $40,000 cash to buy glass, I mean think of mothership.

1:09:12SpeakerWhat am I going to buy with $40,000? One Elite? You know, like this and it's peach colored, like what the fuck are you going to buy for 40 grand? So, you know, even the most, you know, InstaSnacks that just did the crazy ball or the egg that, you know, the greatest work you've ever seen. Those things are what, $50,000, $60,000 or something like that? So the problem is in California or what I'm learning right now is in Massachusetts, if you have that much money on you and they see that cash, They, their job, whoever this officer is, the specific one that actually does engage with you, his job is to take that money.

1:09:51SpeakerBecause they're going to get to keep a percentage of it, especially if they can make it look a certain way. But now, if you flip the other side of that, if I want to get that money back, because say, I have receipts that show that that money came from the bank, you know, withdrawal slips. Even with those withdrawal slips, I still have to give one third of that money to an attorney, and they are going to, they're going to take 10% of that money and Because they can exercise that right.

1:10:16SpeakerSo because you had your money out there looking to buy glass or do whatever, it's just so odd now to me how cash is demonized. And I think it's way more than a coincidence that we're in the business that we're in and cash is demonized. It's jealousy or something.

1:10:34BubblemanJohn said it perfectly. They created money for control. And the eventual control, of course, is to control the money More so than they are right now, which is the black market allows for cash business to occur without them really knowing what's going on. The more they turn money into digital, the more that cash will be a flag. And those things will stand out very strongly. How much cash do you think Mothership puts in the bank every week?

1:11:03SpeakerWell, as little as they can, I think, because they try to run the business as non-cash. I mean, when I buy stuff for Mothership and I've You know, I've done orders with Mothership and I have, you know, I'm sending money orders because that's what's safest for my friend. But I'm sure that, you know, I've heard Scott say many times, like, you know, I don't want cash, but at the same time, you know, sometimes I'm sure they do take some in.

1:11:27BubblemanAnd money orders are still the same flag. It's still cash that has a number that goes back to your ID. So it's no different than cash. What they want you to do is they want you to transfer money from your bank account right into... Their bank account type of thing. So then they know, okay, we know where this came from. When it just shows up as cash, they don't know.

1:11:50SpeakerBut if cash is out there and cash has to be used. See, you know, the thing too is I'm a guy standing there in, you know, a Lululemon t-shirt and shorts and flip flops with a hat on. I'm not in a fucking suit, you know, trying to pretend to, I mean, anytime I see someone in a suit, anytime I see someone dressed like that, They've turned it into a cash twenty-two.

1:12:41BubblemanIndeed they have. A cash 22.

1:12:45SpeakerBut you know what? As legalization kind of comes through and the banking situation changes, it's all going to transfer. I mean, we're in this awkward stage of being moonshiners during the legalization of alcohol. And, you know, we're moving from our backyard stills to what will be processing facilities off of interstates, you know, and regular banks and sponsoring the Olympics someday. Who knows, you know? I mean, cannabis culture is going to be, I think, more popular than we can predict because of how closely it's related to the human body.

1:13:20SpeakerThe human experience, you know, endocannabinoids, our cannabinoid system, this is huge. And I think as we learn more, I wouldn't doubt that we'll see foods fortified with cannabinoids in the future and such a cosmic shift in culture awareness for cannabis because it will be because it's part of people's health regimen and preventive health regimen.

1:13:46JohnWe're going to have to choke some motherfuckers to death to get that to happen though, Todd.

1:13:52SpeakerWell, we've been doing it. For people like me that for 20 years plus have dedicated their lives to educating their neighbors, that's what we've been doing with kindness. We've been going to colleges, writing books, making movies, doing public appearances with the same fucking message constantly. Cannabis is good. You should look at its history. Please reconsider your thoughts on the subject. That's really been it.

1:14:16JohnThat's exactly why I released BHO in the first place back in 1999. And it's exactly why not too long back here I released How to Make the Temple Balls. And I still haven't heard a word from anybody. Anybody play with it yet? I mean, you guys don't know what a sweet thing that is until you shoot it. And by the way, Tony, I want your dog. You like my little dog?

1:14:44SpeakerI'm actually about to try, have you ever, do you think that, so I've got like a bunch of Red Congo, like rosin and Red Congo melts, and I was going to try to do it with that and a little bit of some terpenes of Red Congo. I was going to do kind of the same thing. Have you ever done it without like BFO oil?

1:15:06JohnOh yeah, yeah, I've, It doesn't matter about that because it's a physics thing. When you put the oil, when you sublimate it into the liquid nitrogen, it doesn't matter how you made it for the most part, it's going to freeze and it's going to start fracturing. And it will continue to fracture into a very fine powder and then you want to stick something in and stir it a little more to make sure it maintains that.

1:15:31JohnWhen it looks like Flower floating in water and you can't see anything big. And then you start pouring the trichromes in and stirring it with a big wooden spoon. And when you've got all the trichromes and it's stirred up really well and you can tell that the color of it has changed because you've added the trichromes to the oil. Sit it down somewhere. By the way, please be doing all this outside.

1:15:57JohnAre someplace where you have a booth that's sucking the nitrogen away because you'll be using liquid nitrogen and liquid nitrogen expands up and if you get a good lung full of pure nitrogen you'll start hearing this buzzing sound and then you'll have the answer about who's at the gate there, St. Peter or the devil. Because nitrogen molecules are bigger than oxygen molecules. You can breathe them in, just breathing them out is the tough part and You can asphyxiate yourself if you're not careful with that.

1:16:30JohnBut a simple thing, I mean, you know, doing it outside and problem solved. So if you're going to try it, please do it and let me know, man. I know that once you try it, you're never going to not try it anymore again.

1:16:45SpeakerWell, I'm definitely going to do it. And I just wanted to hear that from you, you know, because it takes a while to get 80 grams of both.

1:16:55JohnYeah, well, gee whiz, it's too bad we couldn't run into each other somewhere because I could give you 80 grams of both of those out of my pocket change. I mean, usually, you know, whenever that's done, whenever we create the thing, I mean, we create it in such a way so that those numbers are minuscule.

1:17:20SpeakerYeah, I've got, I think I have like 40 grams of, I actually was going to do, I have 40 grams of flower rosin, 40 grams of hash rosin or more, maybe I think I have 80, 80, and then I have 80 grams of like a first run, all from red conga leaves.

1:17:38JohnMan, I would, I would do that. You know, the one that is the most popular, as far as I can tell, that people have come to me for over the years is red colored hash. And nothing like using red trichromes and red oil to make a very beautiful red hash.

1:17:56SpeakerThis naturally has, interesting you say that this, the red Congolese actually naturally has like a, it has like a, like a peach red to it.

1:18:08JohnIt's pretty interesting.

1:18:10SpeakerWell, some of it, some of it, yeah, some of the ones.

1:18:13JohnWhat's the scenario where you've got your place at? I mean, I wouldn't want to come down there and walk through Harborview because I'd have to get a letter and all that to even go in the place because they stop you outside the front door.

1:18:25SpeakerTrue? Yeah, no, that's true. But we actually are moving into a newer space that's much bigger. And I'm also, I mean, I also have a home. Like, you don't have to go, like, into any, Anything. But I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do what you said and I'm going to experiment with it. I have it all ready to go. I was actually going to do it like Tuesday.

1:18:52SpeakerSo we'll see how the experiment goes. Is there anything that could go wrong to where it would just fuck up all the hash and be completely useless that I should know about?

1:19:01BubblemanYou could pour the liquid nitrogen on your head.

1:19:06JohnOh yeah, you could fall face forward into the bowl of liquid nitrogen and hash mix and everything and I'm sure no one would want to smoke it after you passed on. But other than that, no, you can't really fuck it up.

1:19:17SpeakerLet me just clarify because you said two things. So let me just go through this. So we have 80 grams of hash oil or flour oil goes into a stainless steel bowl, liquid nitrogen. It's going to start to look like a flour and water and then it's going to start to break down into water. And as it does that, you add in the trichomes.

1:19:38JohnOkay. I'll just pass by it one more time for you. That's pretty close. You had it pretty close. You want to put the liquid nitrogen in a bowl first.

1:19:49SpeakerOkay.

1:19:50JohnThen you introduce the chunk of oil or if it's pourable, you pour it in, whatever. The moment it hits the nitrogen, the shattering starts. It's instantaneous. Okay. The temperature change is what causes it. And you want to carry on with that until it looks like the pieces are the size of flour. I mean, you really can't see any chunks of any sort whatsoever. Yeah, you don't want to do that.

1:20:19JohnIf you've got chunks in it, you want to continue stirring and get a baseball bat or something like a giant mortar and pestle. Anyway, once you get it ground up good and solid like that, then you slowly start adding the trichromes. You just stand there with a bag, pour it in while you're stirring it with a spoon. It's starting to sound like a cake recipe. Because it does make a cake.

1:20:46JohnAfter it's all done, you'll look at it. There'll be a thousand little holes that bubbles from the nitrogen evaporating out of the mixture made. It'll look like the surface of the moon. But you wait a while until it's warmed up enough so that you can stick your hand in it without causing any due stress on your part and pull a wad of it out and roll it up between your hands until it starts looking like one of those temple balls.

1:21:16JohnIt takes about maybe two, three minutes per temple ball, I guess, or longer, maybe.

1:21:23SpeakerWhat size ball? Like two grams, five grams?

1:21:27JohnI usually roll... I generally roll them up about the size of a tennis ball because when we make them, we have to make a lot of them. So we roll some the size of tennis balls, some the size of softballs. We do roll some few the size of golf balls, but the people that take them from us are just as happy to have them big, so we roll them big.

1:21:52JohnOnce you roll them up like that, and if you've got the time and the infrastructure to let them sit They'll form a very nice crust on the outside that'll be very thin, thin as a piece of onion skin, typewriter paper, if anybody remembers using a typewriter. But it'll be nice and thin, and then when you break them open to look at them, it just looks like somebody threw a handful of sparkles in it.

1:22:19JohnIt's all sparkly and beautiful inside, and usually the next thing that happens is you're sitting there with a few people smoking it, and someone goes, hey, look, no residue, and the other person goes, Hey dude, got any more of this?

1:22:35SpeakerWhat, yeah, so I was trying to make it to where I was actually going to try to release them. Like I was going to try to do like maybe one or two, probably two gram temple balls.

1:22:45JohnYeah, well, you know, long ago when Harborside started up, I used to vend there. And let's see, what's his name with the hat there?

1:22:57JohnWhat's that guy's name with the hat and the pigtails? Anyway, when I first went there, I brought him a brick that looked like a piece of sponge, and it was Moonstones, and so they brought him out, and he came out, and he was goggling it, and then I brought him some golden button, and then I brought him a few temple balls, and then I got involved with somebody doing something else, and so I didn't go back there anymore, but...

1:23:24JohnAll the material we took them and they were, you know, pretty nuts over.

1:23:30SpeakerYeah. So you think I can make maybe two grand balls out of that?

1:23:34JohnYeah. I mean, you just have to realize, you know, going to be small and a little more difficult to roll. Tennis ball size ones are easy to roll, but... What you can do is pinch off one of the sides of a golf ball, roll it up, and then you can take little pinches off of it. Because once you roll it up and the heat of your hands gets into it, it becomes very, very malleable then.

1:23:56JohnIt's so soft, you could take a tennis ball-sized chunk and squeeze it in half with your forefinger and your thumb.

1:24:04SpeakerOh, wow.

1:24:05JohnThat's how soft they are after this. So that's why I call them temple balls. They stay soft like that. They just get this nice little... Well, it'll be interesting to see you do it, Tony.

1:24:44JohnYeah, I'm going to try it, Bubble Man. Did I send you the picture of some of those?

1:24:51BubblemanOh, yeah. Yep. We shared it.

1:24:57JohnOh, you did? All right. I don't remember. That's what happens when you get V70. You start forgetting little things like that. Stuff has to make an impression on me before I remember. Well, anyway, I would definitely like to... Meet up with you, Tony, and I would give you a few more pointers about doing that. But I don't know. I'm up in Humboldt. And so right now, my SO is getting ready to go back to Maui for a few weeks.

1:25:32JohnAnd I'm pretty much left alone in the middle of 50 acres here.

1:25:41JohnYeah, I got to wait for one of my sons to come along and take the ride with me.

1:25:47SamAnd John, if you take the one gram piece of that temple ball, can you spread it into a sheet thin enough that you can like read a newspaper through it?

1:25:58JohnI missed that last part. Can you say it again?

1:26:01SamIf you take a one gram piece and spread it, press it as thin as you can into like a super thin circle. Can you then read a newspaper through it?

1:26:16JohnUsually what happens is it mostly turns back into oil when you just press it really hard like that. It'll oil drops, it'll squeeze out. I had a friend who had a hash press, a little tiny hash press, and he put some in and squeezed it. Yeah, I'm sure you can probably read a newspaper through it. I haven't tried any of these things simply because We were using the old put it in a pipe and let's try it out method.

1:26:45BubblemanYeah, I bet you it would depend on the material used. If you were using like a real nice golden oil and some real golden heads and you're not really adding heat, you're just doing it very cold, I'm sure that you can read through it for certain.

1:27:01BubblemanI guess Tony will make one and we'll be seeing. Compared to using like really old red oil or something that, you know, in red trichomes that came out almost red, it would be a little bit harder to do. I guess if you press it thin enough.

1:27:15SpeakerThe red Congolese I got is like a 14-16, but he has one that he took early and then we have some material that he took really late. As I said, just let it go over 120, like go 18 weeks. So we're going to look at the differences in the color and what that looks like too. Yeah, dude. That sounds proper.

1:27:36BubblemanRick Congles for the win.

1:27:38SpeakerI like it.

1:27:40BubblemanI think so too. Hey, we've got some people trying to get into the chat room right now. D420K and Johnny B, who's over at the Bio Cup right now. Yeah, so thank you, Fletch, jumped out. Addison and Natasha, if you guys aren't coming back, it's best to jump out and then just come back later if you're away for more than just the bathroom or a drink.

1:28:02SpeakerI also wanted to hear about Todd's case. Last time we spoke, you were gone. Bumped to November. And it was really interesting because when I was standing there with Tony, I was only about 10 feet away from him talking to the prosecutor. And I've been fighting this for three years, long, long before I ever heard two words about Adult Use of Marijuana Act or 64. So I've only been fighting this on medical and not really worried about it.

1:28:29SpeakerAnd When we were standing there and I was listening to them talk, I mean, the prosecutor was flat up telling Tony that they want to wait and see what's going to happen with the November election because if it does happen, they're all going to be moving to make motions, both the prosecution and the The defense attorneys to throw out thousands of cases all over California because this is something that happened in Colorado, it's something that happened in Washington, it's something that happened in Oregon and it's going to happen here in California on a monumental level because and I asked Tony Serra who's been an attorney since 1962, I asked him why and he said because they can't win.

1:29:09SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:29:37SpeakerThey're going to bunt on all these cases because they don't want to take them in front of juries. They don't want to lose the writings on the wall. So it was really an eye-opener for me to walk away with that because it was something I really wasn't even thinking about or something that never even hit my contemplation about what 64 was going to do.

1:29:57JohnWell, I hope they dismiss your case, Todd.

1:30:01SpeakerI expect they will, John, because I've had nothing but a long medical in this. They're doing it because I won't cooperate. It's just spite. And all that's really going to come out of it, and the reason I'm fighting it is because what are they going to do? Give me probation? Lock me up for a short amount of time in California? There's no threat, and I don't want to be rude when I say that, but...

1:30:25SpeakerYeah, probation. Go ahead. Give it to me. And so I'm just going to wait them out, and we're going to go to a jury trial. And I just don't think that they can, I don't think they're going to get a conviction on a medical cannabis cultivation case with a jury in Alameda County. So fuck it. I'm going to push through all the way to the very end.

1:30:45SpeakerAnd everybody's been sending condolences, but you know what? I came over the fear of what I was fighting, Over 20 years ago, I mean, I was first locked up in 95. Summer of 95, I was spent in jail in Ohio for 30 pounds of medical cannabis. And then in 97, I was fighting a 10-year sentence. I did five years. The pain is gone. And I wish more people would realize that jail was kind of a joke and that, you know, if we all stood up against the system, the system would absolutely break.

1:31:17BubblemanThat's for sure. Well, it's good that you've been doing it for as long as you have. I also think that it just can't possibly go wrong if you go right to the jury. I bet you you won't even have to. They'll probably dismiss your case.

1:31:30SpeakerI don't think they're going to take... If you knew who Tony Serra was, they actually made a movie about the guy in the 80s called True Believer. He won't handle anybody that cooperates ever. It's against all of his ethics. He's just, he wrote a thing to Snitch or Not to Snitch in Skunk Magazine that was out last year that was really great. Because his thing is, they go after the snitches after they take down the people.

1:31:52SpeakerBecause they have no respect for the people that cooperate. You know, no difference from any other gang or group that would be. Hey John! Wow, Bobby!

1:32:02AddisonWe've got Bobby in here. We've got a live call to hear and stuff. We had about 8,000 people here last night for the Bio Cup of Canada. We had an amazing, great stage. Everybody's having a great time here. Good to see you.

1:32:24AddisonWe've got Remo here, Santiago, this is Santiago, he started the Bio Cup in Spain, the first one, so he came all the way from Barcelona here. Of course, you've got Remo in the house. Where's the camera? We've got everybody's right here. Hold on, hold on, hold on. We've got the bud shot. You see the bud? What's up, Remo? Don't talk, but talk it into house, doggy dog.

1:32:42AddisonThere you go. So here's all of the drudges we've got going on here, guys, and we're having this amazing event, and we can't wait until next year. Just definitely a great, great time here. They're rocking it up here. I mean, I could walk you guys around and show you how big of this venue is, but it's pretty amazing. And, of course, you got everybody here, and we got you guys.

1:33:01AddisonAwesome to see everybody today.

1:33:03BubblemanHey, Bob, how's it going? Dude, it's going good. Let's see Remo light that spliff.

1:33:11SpeakerRoll that up. Hey, you know what? The next thing we're going to judge here is actually the solventless hash. And it's a good thing Hash Church has arrived for that. So we're going to warm up.

1:33:20AddisonWe're judging solventless hash now. Yeah, that's a long Hash Church material, right? So, I mean, we can have you go on mute, and we can just see what's going on.

1:33:32BubblemanSounds good, guys. Good to see you here in Hash Church. You bumped our viewers up 30 people. Rocked us over 800.

1:33:40AddisonWe're going to keep it rolling here, guys. We're having a great time and awesome. We're going to just stand by and keep listening a little bit. You might jump out if you want us to. If not, we'll just kind of broadcast your live with you as we keep going. Cultivate truth.

1:33:55SpeakerWhat time does it start today? What time does the event start today?

1:34:01AddisonNoon. Noon starts at 12 until 9 o'clock tonight.

1:34:06SpeakerWhat city are you guys in specifically? Where are you exactly?

1:34:11AddisonWe're on Vancouver Island, and it's the Legends Valley Festival. It's Lake Cowichan. Lake Cowichan. And this guy put on this huge event here at Sunfest just a couple days, a couple months ago. And about 30,000 people up here, and then they actually had the Bio Cup put together by Matt from BC Bud Depot and those guys. They hooked it all up and had about 40 bands, Sublime, Fifth Naked, Daniel Wesley, and Dirty Dogs.

1:34:41AddisonDirty Dogs. Dirty Dogs. Sheep Dogs. Sheep Dogs. You can see the stage behind us. I'll take you for a little bit of a walk. We've got great internet here. We've got two stages. This is huge, guys. This whole area was just lit up last night. There was over 8,000 people here. We've got it all. You can see behind me.

1:35:03SpeakerThere's a main stage up behind us on the other end. There's booze everywhere here.

1:35:09AddisonThey have really, really, really made this event amazing for everybody to come in and join and be involved with. I think next year will be even better because the reviews here right now, the artists are loving it. We have cannabis on one side, we have a beer gun on the other. Never seen anything like it before, but definitely awesome here, guys. So I want to give you the view, show you what was happening, show you this whole event.

1:35:34AddisonLook at the beautiful background. Mountains in the background, main stage up front. We're just rocking it over here. Everybody's having a great time.

1:35:43JohnYou can see... Lower the camera a little bit. We're getting your head and a lot of sky. Lower it down a little bit so we can see the stuff.

1:35:54JohnWhat would you like to see, John?

1:36:01JohnSorry about the internet, guys. Right now we're just getting clouds in the tips of trees.

1:36:06SpeakerYeah, John, do the thing that I do where you just reverse your camera. Just use it projecting away from your chest.

1:36:12AddisonCan you see it now?

1:36:15BubblemanYeah, your internet's cashing out on us. I think you should go back to your other spot there.

1:36:20AddisonOkay, sorry. I was trying to walk and we got some good stuff here, but we're going to sit here and do this judging. We got all the judges here and stuff like that.

1:36:31SpeakerIs there a website, John? Is there a website for the event?

1:36:36AddisonLegends Valley Music Festival. That's the website. You can just punch in Legends Valley Cup Canada Music Festival. And he did a fantastic job here. Really, really stepped it up. BC Buddy going behind. Those are the guys who are kind of putting everything on. We've got... Boom.

1:37:27BubblemanAlright, that was coming in pretty rough for me. Hopefully it recorded much better. I don't know how you guys were hearing it.

1:37:36SpeakerWell, it was pretty choppy.

1:37:38BubblemanYeah, it was pretty choppy.

1:37:39SpeakerIt looks really cool though. The event does look really cool.

1:37:43BubblemanYeah, it was good to see those guys all there.

1:37:49SpeakerIt's nice to see events like this. Rima always brings a smile to my face. Yeah, he always makes me want to light a joint. Yeah, I'm looking at some butt on the table right now. You know, though, it's nice to see events like this embracing cannabis. And I think, think of how easy it's going to be for cannabis to cross into music festivals, concerts. I mean, imagine when Pink Floyd concerts can just be just...

1:38:14SpeakerNot having to look over your shoulder.

1:38:16BubblemanDude, I'm picturing when he said the beer garden over here and the cannabis over here, I was picturing, oh, you've got to do a cannabis versus alcohol Olympic Games when you have that many people doing both of those things on either side. It's like, here, we'll do the Frisbee toss, or we'll just do a couple of fun little innocent games, you know, get people that are hammered and get people that are high.

1:38:38BubblemanI think that hilarity would ensue.

1:38:42AddisonYeah, that would be very, very funny.

1:38:52AddisonThere's Tim.

1:38:56BubblemanTim Powers. Tim in the background.

1:39:00AddisonSee, we're going to start rolling in here, guys. It'll be a lot of fun.

1:39:06BubblemanSweet. It's funny that I could just be there in like a couple of hours on my motorcycle. Thank you for watching.

1:39:34JohnYou can get pretty blasted at the California events. A lot of people are there with a lot of different things. I noticed John's eyes look completely unfunctional now. He's turned Chinese on us. But, yeah, I've gotten that way.

1:39:52BubblemanYeah. Well, I think when I come down to the U.S., I will have my own, like, you know, go and stop and see... You know, some friends in Bellingham. Go and stop and see friends in Seattle. Go and stop and see. Go all the way down and just do a little bubble man tour of all my different processor extractor friends. I think it could be pretty damn fun.

1:40:13JohnYeah. How would you do that?

1:40:15AddisonSounds like a road trip.

1:40:18SpeakerWhat are you guys up to now? 101?

1:40:22BubblemanIs that what tonight?

1:40:23AddisonPast Church 101. Past Church 101. Yeah, that's a good number. There you guys go. Kick ass. What's good, man?

1:40:29BubblemanWhat's going on, Matt? Trying to get this dab on my dabber. There we go. Dabs. Dabs. Dabs. We got dabs going. Where do you think we are, Octopus? That does look like Crockett.

1:40:54BubblemanGot a whole crew over there. All right, here we go, bubbled up.

1:41:02AddisonHey, what's going on, Mark? It is Crockett.

1:41:05BubblemanDude, wicked, dude. Nice to see you there. Hey, man.

1:41:10AddisonWow, I've never been on Hashtag. Is that Tony right there?

1:41:14BubblemanTony. See you there. Yeah, who's that?

1:41:21BubblemanOh, they got bumped. Crockett's in B.C. Good morning.

1:41:29BubblemanWhat's going on, D?

1:41:31SpeakerMorning, mother lovers.

1:41:33Etienne FontanHey, D. Hope you had a good birthday last week, buddy.

1:41:38SpeakerThanks, man, I did. And last night I come to PG, and I had a huge birthday barbecue with family and friends, and I got the tribe boys here with me. They come up and hung out for a few days, and we're just chilling, burning, and doing judging on that file cup pack, and having fun. Oh, there we go. ATN, they're going to be down in your area, and we're wondering if you wanted to come to one of their shows.

1:42:06SpeakerHell yeah. Well, we'll link up after Hash Church and make it happen.

1:42:14Etienne FontanHell yeah, buddy.

1:42:16SpeakerRight on. Well, bong rip, mother lovers. Let's do this.

1:42:21BubblemanJust exhaled. Those guys are at the Bio Cup right now. They just had, like, Johnny B and Remo and... Yeah, we've seen that. We've seen that. That was cool. That must be a good time. Yeah, they looked like they were having a pretty good time for sure. Hashtag bringing it all together. I like your lighting right now, Mark. You're like an album cover right now. You have to look away.

1:42:43BubblemanLook away again. Yeah, there it is. That's an album cover.

1:42:50SpeakerTake the screenshot.

1:42:51BubblemanFuck, I'm going to have to.

1:42:58BubblemanThat's the fucking scalding.

1:43:05SpeakerJust call the album Scowl Down. Yeah, I ought to put out a record someday, all that hash music, right? Exactly. Including the hash team, right? It's been a while, dude. Why not? Maybe we ought to sing Happy Birthday to ATN later before we wrap up. I'll go get the mandolin later.

1:43:28BubblemanHell yeah. We shall. Still got 800 people watching here at almost quarter to 11 on a Sunday early afternoon. I guess it's not afternoon yet, but maybe it is on the East Coast. People from all over the place watching and puffing. Glad to have you guys here sharing your time with us. That is for certain. Had some interesting conversations today. Still feeling my hand a little sore from skateboarding the other day.

1:44:01SamI like the idea of this being Cannabis 101. We should have some more questions. Come on. Absolutely.

1:44:08BubblemanThere's a whole room full of people that must have questions about different things.

1:44:13Etienne FontanYeah, anybody got a question for us?

1:44:16SpeakerLet's have Dr. Natasha talk about the rat study when she comes back, for sure. Oh, the one where they're trying to... The one that says that the rats are lazy once they get THC and will do a lot less work for less reward.

1:44:32BubblemanRight, yeah. Comparing the reward to white sugar. Yeah.

1:44:42JohnWait, wait, wait.

1:44:45SpeakerThey gave the rat the choice between sugar, white sugar and cannabis and they chose sugar? I'm surprised. Well, let's see. No, no, no. The reward was the same, but they had to work harder to get more, and the ones that, the rats that had been exposed to THC took less for less, if you know what I mean. But I want Natasha to describe it. I don't want to steal her thunder here.

1:45:09SpeakerNo, exactly. You're saying that the rats were, they were just more, they were okay with mediocrity.

1:45:16SamYeah, they wanted to listen. They became stoner rats that got lazy. Yeah.

1:45:24SpeakerI bet you if those rats, though, were not just in a 30-day study but in a 20-year study because it takes them a little longer, they'd probably evolve and start doing other crazy things, like building things, rat cities. They'd make their life even way more convenient. How do they get food delivered to them, get other animals and insects to work for them? Thank you. Natasha's back, and she had a very interesting post on Facebook, but let's let her have the floor here because she's very passionate about this study, I can tell.

1:45:59SpeakerAnd she's an expert on rats. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, so I have several issues with this study, and I mean... Can you explain the study? Can you explain it?

1:46:16BubblemanOkay. Because people won't know.

1:46:17SpeakerOkay. Okay. So, a few days ago, I think on the 23rd, this is how I became aware of this study. UBC issued, the University of British Columbia in Vancouver issued a press release about this study, this study showing that THC makes rats lazy. And so, I thought, okay, this is interesting. So, I watched the video. And was a little surprised by the language the researchers used. Basically saying like, everyone knows that cannabis makes you lazy.

1:46:56SpeakerAnd so we wanted to see if this was true. So as we expected, this is what we found. So it was a little biased right from the beginning. So I was a little concerned even just like going into the study. So then I look at the study. And so my background is nutrition. So I understand things from a dietary nutrition perspective. So as I'm looking at this study, there's several concerns.

1:47:24SpeakerAnd basically what they're saying this model does isn't actually what it does. So for instance, this is what the experiment was. They took rats and they trained them in this type of model. That they claim measures, I want to find the exact words. What is it? Cognitive effort. So they use, this model is called a rat cognition effort task. Okay. So first of all what they do is they take rats and they keep them hungry.

1:47:58SpeakerSo they keep them at 85% of their body weight. So... Side note, when working with animals, body weight measures are very important. It's a very important measure to determine how your experiment's going, the health of the animals. So usually in animal studies, such as mice studies, when these animals get to 20% of their body weight, ethically we're supposed to sacrifice them, like kill them, because ethically they have lost so much body weight that this is harmful to the animal and it's no longer ethical to keep them alive, okay?

1:48:33SpeakerSo this is for mice. So keep in mind this isn't rats. So they're keeping these rats at like 85% of their body weight. So they've lost about 15% of their body weight. So these are hungry rats, okay? So they're hungry. And so they give them this This experiment where they put them in this little thing and they give them a choice, they call it. So the first choice is the easier, low reward choice.

1:49:00SpeakerSo there's a timing button, a light, that goes for about one second. And when the rat hits the little thing with his nose, he's rewarded one sugar pellet. Okay? So this is the easy... Easy task. The harder task now is a little button. The light comes on for about .2 seconds. Okay, so that's one second versus .2 seconds. This is a faster light, so the rat has a shorter amount of time to make the correct response.

1:49:31SpeakerWhen he gets it right, two sugar pellets. So they consider this the harder task, higher reward. So in a 2012 study, these researchers used this model and they're claiming that by using this model, so they tested like alcohol, they tested caffeine, they tested cocaine, they tested all these different stimulants and sedative drugs and showed, you know, so they showed, oh, this is a really good validated model for showing cognitive efforts and we can show cognitive laziness.

1:50:04SpeakerSo then there is this, this model gets even weirder because So they put the rats, just regular rats, through this test. And then they classify the rats based on how they naturally respond to these trials as worker rats or slacker rats. Very scientific terminology. And so if they do the high reward, high effort trial, more than 70% of the time they're called worker rats. If they choose the easier one sugar reward trial, they're called slacker rats.

1:50:43SpeakerOkay? So this is the model we're dealing with here. And from this model, we can tell that humans, you know, how they're making these choices and whether they're lazy or not. That's what they're implying from this model, which, to begin with, is completely ridiculous. Okay, so now they're taking this model... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:51:18SpeakerCombo, which they're claiming is like Nibiximols or Sativex, which it is not because anyone who's actually looked into the literature and understands what Sativex is, it actually is kind of whole plant, like it has little bits of terpenoids and other compounds in it. So it's not just THC and CBD. So anyway, their comparisons make no sense. Okay, so, and then they do a bunch of other things.

1:51:41SpeakerSo when you look at the experiments, there's lots of different ways they're testing this out. So the thing that stands out the most is the experiments they did with THC. So they're treating the rat with different levels of THC. Oh, and I also want to point out there is...

1:51:59Speaker32 rats. Okay? This whole experiment, 32 rats. This is a preliminary experiment. Anything, any work that we've ever done, if we did something with that number, that would be preliminary. We would repeat that at least three times to maybe say, oh, maybe this is true. So this is very preliminary work. So they take the rats, they give them different doses of THC, and then they challenge them with this task.

1:52:22SpeakerAnd they find that with increasing levels of THC, and they're injecting the THC into the gut, so intraperitoneally, they're finding that higher levels of THC, the rats no longer participate in the trial. Okay, and this is, again, I want to get the wording correct. The rats, the THC treated rats did not have changes in attention, no changes in impulsivity, And no changes in their ability to perform the task.

1:52:54SpeakerSo basically, they're fine. The only difference is they're not participating as much. So what's going on here? So they're saying they're lazy. This is where my nutrition background comes in because when I look into the literature, The amount of THC that they're giving them. So, anyone who's new to cannabis thinks, oh, everyone who smokes cannabis, they just get the munchies. It's like, maybe, with low doses, but when you look at higher dose, higher dose levels of THC actually suppress appetite.

1:53:27SpeakerHigher dose levels of THC actually have been shown in two studies, two specific rat studies, to suppress the rat's urge for sugary treats. So... So at the doses that these people are giving their rats, so all they're showing is the rats given higher levels of THC, 3 milligrams per kilogram, the same dose that has previously been shown in rats to suppress their appetite and suppress their desire for sugar.

1:53:54SpeakerSo why do you think these rats are no longer participating in a trial where the reward is more sugar? They're not hungry. So it's just... It's insane when you look... So I wrote a blog post. If you go to my blog, NatashaRizPhD.com, I post a blog post kind of breaking down some of this stuff. I actually... Anyone who's looked at it before, I actually added an update last night.

1:54:17SpeakerSo my mentor and colleague, Dr. Ethan Russo, I contacted him about the study, and he wrote me back a nice, succinct... Some issues he had with the study. So in layman's terms, you're basically saying they manipulated the study with sugar levels. They took hungry rats and then gave them a challenge and tried to say that they were lazy because they didn't participate. Can I have a question?

1:54:53SpeakerHas the method been validated for the use of any other intoxicant? Like, is this a standard method for something that would intoxicate a mammal? Or is this just, are they dreaming this up out of thin air, which is, when I read the paper, exactly what it seems like. You think the paper is, oh, that they're dreaming it up? Or that you think the paper is good methods?

1:55:16SpeakerIt seems like the method that they're using is not experimentally validated or adequately referenced. No, the model they're using, they developed, so their model developed, and even when they describe the model, they compare it to, they're like, oh, this is based on a rat model that has been validated to test accuracy and speed. And then they're like, and we're going to use it to test these things.

1:55:43SpeakerAnd so exactly what you're saying, Mark, is this hasn't really been, I don't see how this is validated. Like, it's, I feel like, Yeah, and even, okay, so even if the methodology was valid, even if they're claiming to show what they did show, put all of that aside, let's still bring it back to these basic simple things. Rats are not humans, in no way, synthetic THC is not cannabis, and so these researchers took these premature findings that might be a little interesting, and they issued We issued a press release from UBC with the UBC stamp of approval coming out saying all these things that aren't true and their quotes are so stigmatizing and discriminatory.

1:56:34SpeakerI was just like, oh no, they're going to have to apologize for this. I would like to ask about the method of delivery, too. Intraperineal, I mean, you're shocking the animal as it is because you're sticking a catheter in the gut of this animal. I mean, my gosh, that's going to cause all kinds of immunological response. So I was looking for, like, where has this been studied where they could wash out the noise that that would create in the data?

1:57:01SpeakerYes, and that's a very good point because that's not reflective of how people actually take the medicine. And Ethan Russo also pointed out, like, the dosing doesn't make any sense. Like, these aren't therapeutic doses. Like, and the persons to side effects also don't make any sense. Yes, sorry, go ahead.

1:57:20JohnI'd like to ask a question about it. It seems to me like the one point that they all missed was after a while when these rats were taking the THC dose and decided not to be part of the experiment is exactly what's going on in humanity. We don't want to be part of the experiment anymore. These rats have come to self-awareness. They're like, fuck this. Why should I be… That's exactly what I thought was going on.

1:57:45SpeakerExactly that. Imagine the first time you did… Have that experience. You have an awakening.

1:57:53SpeakerYou do.

1:57:54JohnI got a science fiction story that I just put together about 42 mice in a research lab. On a burnt out husk of earth and a huge crystal ship comes to pick them up and the mice have a very interesting story to tell about what happened to mankind and how come they're all invulnerable and they're super powered and they have incredible intelligence because for thousands of years men have been putting them in distressing situations in laboratories and they've been surviving anyway.

1:58:24SpeakerIt's because we spent all the research funding on the rat studies and not the human studies, so we figured out all the cures to the rat diseases. None of the human ones, though.

1:58:33JohnYeah, I mean, the mice and the rats are going to be the ultimate beneficiaries of this. They'll probably be sitting down at the end smoking a bowl with the cockroaches.

1:58:43BubblemanOr doing intermuscular injections of synthetic THC.

1:58:47SpeakerThey haven't had their reign yet on this planet. They could have a good, they might have a good 100,000 years of reigning, you know, as the dominant species on Earth after a while. And it's funny because even with this model, so I went back to their 2012 when they first released the model, and they show that Similar to THC, when the rats are properly fed, when they're satisfied, they don't participate in the trial either.

1:59:16SpeakerSo why aren't the headlines, ooh, eating food makes you lazy?

1:59:23BubblemanThank you for watching.

1:59:42SpeakerWell, that's what I was saying. So what if you were the rat and you had awareness and you said, okay, I'm addicted to sugar, but then you had a little bit of THC in your body and you're like, well, maybe I shouldn't be addicted to sugar and I'm not going to go after it the way you want me to go after it. And then they become like Addison.

2:00:01SpeakerThey're not going to conform to authority.

2:00:05BubblemanRight. They ended up at a Grateful Dead show and someone told them about the poisonous sugars and

2:00:14SpeakerSo you guys should read the only, if you go on my blog again, I put a list of all the headlines, and it gets ridiculous because it starts off with UBC says rats are Thank you for watching.

2:00:47SpeakerGet too excited and prematurely talk about their research to the press and it's animal studies and try to relate it to human behavior to try to make their research more relatable or understandable. This is dangerous and it's silly. And if you, again on my blog post I gave props out to, actually I want to look up what his name is. Let's see. I posted the link. Peter Clines.

2:01:14SpeakerPeter Clines. He wrote a piece called In Defense of Those Stoned Rats, Science Just Labeled Lazy for Vice. Check it out. He didn't know why the paper was wrong, but he was like, I know this is wrong. So he wrote a really funny... I posted those links on the Hash Church website.

2:01:57SpeakerFacebook page of people looking for the link to the article that the doctor's talking about. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, Sam, while we're talking about winter scientific papers that we read this week, is Sam on? Is Sam there?

2:02:12SamOh, yeah. I'm listening, and I know what you're going to say. Keep coming.

2:02:16SpeakerYeah, so that article that literally blew smoke, right? I mean, this is crazy. These folks, where were they? Were they down in South America somewhere?

2:02:28SamI really don't remember. I just saw it and I had no belief in it, but I thought if I posted it, people might find it interesting for discussion.

2:02:39SpeakerYeah, so they took, again, a very suspect method of just blowing cigarette smoke at solutions of molecules and looking to see how these molecules fell apart. So they took this method, again, and used cannabis smoke in this case to bubble through A hexane solution containing beta-carotene, which is a very commonly found pigments in a lot of fruits and vegetables. And then they were like, oh, look what cannabis smoke does to beta-carotene, therefore it's bad to you.

2:03:12SpeakerThis is just, I don't know how this even made it into the peer-reviewed literature. This paper is so scant on detail and the validation of the method itself and To put this out to fearmonger that, ooh, cannabis is bad because if you bubble it through a hexane solution, it's going to degrade beta-carotene. Beta-carotene has a little bit of oxidative instability. It changes with oxidation. But that's regardless.

2:03:40SpeakerI mean, the study is essentially pointless and meaningless.

2:03:43SamWell, but one good thing about the study was I immediately took hexane out of all my bongs, and I now use distilled water.

2:03:53SpeakerYeah, that's probably a lot smarter. But yeah, that's why we need to speak out about these bad research studies that don't make sense. They were talking about making it lazy. Why don't you just say, okay, well, let's study Hussein Bolt and Phelps, the fastest man in water and fastest man on land.

2:04:14SamThere you go. Also, the reason they may have released it early is to drum up funding for the next round of studies.

2:04:23SpeakerAbsolutely. That's exactly what they're doing. It's very, very opportunistic and selfish what they're doing because even, seriously, they're on Twitter. I've been following the way they're tweeting about it and they're like, Oh, so proud. We're getting in the press. Oh, it's so exciting. We're getting some interviews. Like, they have no idea about this field. They don't even, it's lazy. They don't have the cognition to understand, like, the bigger implications of what they're doing.

2:04:52SpeakerAnd I just want to point out, so I've been going around, after I wrote my blog post, the last three days I've just been, like, every article that I see about it, I've just been posting, like, okay, lazy rats or lazy research. Like, here's an alternative explanation. And because I'm not even mad at the press people because they were given the language to use in these reports.

2:05:13SpeakerAnd so this one particularly frustrated me. So this was from the UBC student paper, the UBC, and this was the headline. It said, Study, stoner stereotypes must be true. Rats on THC are lazy. So I tweeted at the science editor for this paper and just said, like, really? Okay, let's, did you read the study? So he read my report and he replied to me and he's actually offered for me to publish in the UBC student paper my perspective about why this study is flawed.

2:05:47SpeakerSo on September 6th I'll be publishing in the UBC paper some more info about this. They asked me to write it a little easier to understand so don't worry it will be written in a way that's It's fun to read. But yeah, I'm really happy though that props to the UBC student paper because UBC has amazing researchers. There's amazing research going on there and if we don't speak out about this bad research that's not appropriate and making...

2:06:16SpeakerI'm from UBC. This is why I'm especially frustrated and I feel like it's my role to call them out and say this is wrong and I've been getting a lot of support From my peers, I've been offered an opportunity to apply for a teaching position. Like, I'm getting all of this, like, support. And it's just, it's like, wow. Like, I can't believe I wasn't going to say anything.

2:06:37SpeakerSo, researchers, if you see bad research, say something. It's our role. It's our job. And it's important because there's so...

2:06:46SamI've been doing this for a quarter century. I joined the ICRS 25 years ago and I used to constantly see graduate students presenting papers where the dosage level to the rats were the equivalent of humans eating hundreds of grams of THC. And it's just, and then they say, well, this is what it does to the rats. But it never happens.

2:07:11SpeakerIt's okay at the beginning of a toxicological assessment to give them a dose where you know they're definitely going to see an effect and then meter down from there. You want to know, establish that where you're going to see a no I can remember both me and Ethan

2:07:47SamWe're standing up and discussing these issues with researchers who presented papers that were biased at the ICRS.

2:07:55SpeakerYeah, Ethan is, I'm just so happy that I have him to talk to and that he's such a strong ally and he's, like for people who don't know who Ethan Russo is, he's, look him up, he's a board certified neurologist, he's It's a major thought leader in the cannabis field, if not one of the top thought leaders. He's the guy who first wrote the review paper in 2011 about cannabis and terpenoid synergy, so really brought these issues to the academic.

2:08:27SamI'm the one that taught Ethan about terpenes.

2:08:30SpeakerOh, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. And me and many others. I know. I know. I know. I'm so honored to be a part of you guys, like your community. I know that you guys are so knowledgeable. Thank you.

2:08:46JohnHey, Marcus. Wasn't there a study showing where academics were lazy?

2:08:51SpeakerI think this one may have shown it.

2:08:54JohnYeah, they never won.

2:08:56BubblemanThey never actually finished that study, John. Yeah.

2:09:03SpeakerI wanted to mention that I met Ethan this week. He came to my talk on Wednesday. Nice. And it's great. He hooked me up with Roger Pertwee over in Scotland and we may be getting a CB1 measurement, which is great. But the cool thing is... I plugged Hash Church. I said, Ian, you know, and he's like, oh yeah, Marcus has contacted me and wants to get me on.

2:09:28SpeakerAnd I said, well, come on, you got to get on. And so I plugged Hash Church and we might be able to talk him into it. So let's see if we can get Ethan on Hash Church soon.

2:09:38BubblemanI have no doubts that Ethan will be on Hash Church eventually, as I have no doubts that there's a few Ethans out there that I've invited that they're just kind of, you know, they're busy. First of all, they're extremely busy. It's not like they have a ton of... Amazingly free time, but at the same time, I think once they realize what the platform is and how important they could be to it, that they'll come and share their time with us when it's the right time.

2:10:06SpeakerRoger Pertree. With the picture of the background and the YouTube channel, so I certainly left a little commercial for it at the end of my talk. Nice, Mark, very nice.

2:10:21SamWhat's that, Sam? Roger Pertree is a really, really nice guy. And he, unlike many researchers, he has nothing against recreational cannabis.

2:10:34BubblemanWell, that's a nice thing to go into your research with. One of the things that I've noticed about the way they scheduled cannabis and then the way they control studies being done on it for decades... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:11:03BubblemanThese lies, these total stereotypical propaganda bullshit lies, you would see them in comedy, and you would see them in stand-up, and you would see them in talk shows, and you would see them in movies, because, oh, rats are lazy. The minute I heard that study, I thought... Man, you know, I bet you Jimmy Fallon does a bit on this. Because he has to. It's a free bit.

2:11:25BubblemanIt's just, oh, wow, they found out rats are like... You know, you can just see it because... And it's kind of like socially irresponsible at this point in time to continue that injustice of lying about cannabis for your own laughs. It seems a bit weak sauce to me. I hope that more and more comedians can start promoting... And it's unfortunate that it's not as funny when it stops a seizure.

2:11:48BubblemanThank you for watching.

2:12:02BubblemanIt's just interesting that because it's not as funny, it hasn't been as quickly, that information hasn't been as quickly taken into the culture by the comedians.

2:12:13SamRoger published a great paper about five years ago that was the first one to show that THCV is an antagonist to the CB1 receptor. In other words, it does not get you high.

2:12:27SpeakerThat's right. That's right. Yep. If anything, it blocks the response, right? Sam, is that...

2:12:34SamPretty much from what my own experience tells me, yes. Yeah, but it has all kinds of... About a year before Roger published that paper, I had told him about my personal testing of pure THCV vaporized, and I told him it does not have an effect.

2:12:54SpeakerRight, but I don't want the audience to believe that there's no importance to that molecule. I mean, a molecule is important in pharmacology.

2:13:00SamOh, no, for medical use?

2:13:02SpeakerWho knows what it could be useful for? Absolutely, yes. We're just beginning to really understand. In fact, here's a question maybe for the panel or the chat room. What are the perhaps maybe more well-known strains that have high THCV?

2:13:20SamDo you want me to tell you or do you want somebody else to say? I want somebody else to say Sam and see if they come up with a great answer.

2:13:28SpeakerWell, I've heard what Sam said in regards to this question in regards to... Well, we know the paper, right? We know the study. Let's see if everyone's paying attention.

2:13:38BubblemanSomeone says it regulates the peaks of the effects of THC. I feel like I missed out. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't know if they're answering the question again.

2:13:45SamThat's correct, right? Well, THCV does modulate THC, just like CBD modulates THC, but not in a positive recreational way. It's more for people who don't want to get too high. They don't want to have peak experiences that make them paranoid.

2:14:07BubblemanYou know, since when have people taken medicine for what they don't want? I mean, if that was the case, pharmaceutical companies could not possibly exist in the current era. Platform that they do. I mean, if you looked at the side effects of pharmaceutical medicine.

2:14:24SamI think it's really handy that THC, excuse me, CBD and THC and THCV and CBD, excuse me, and THC can be used to prevent people from getting too high or freaked out because if they can get useful medicine and not have upsetting effects, more power to them.

2:14:47SpeakerSam, can I ask a question? So the question is, you say that both CBD and THCV modulate the THC. Do you think that THCV does that more potent than CBD?

2:15:02SamIt seemed to be weaker to me. CBD was so potent that when I vaped 100 milligrams of pure CBD, I could not get high off of THC for more than eight hours.

2:15:18SpeakerSo that's how long it took to basically get that, if you could use the term.

2:15:24SamIt was modulating like hell all day long.

2:15:27SpeakerIt was modulating like hell your receptors and you couldn't get any THC in there. Apparently, yes.

2:15:35SpeakerEven if you were, you know, smoking your best skunk, your highest team.

2:15:39SamI was smoking resin that was, you know, 60-70% pure resin heads. It was totally melty and bubbly. And I couldn't get, me and Rob, and neither one of us could get high at all. And that night I had really vivid, colorful dreams. You smoked. I never remember my dreams, but that night I sure freaking did.

2:16:02SpeakerI'll tell you, I've got a whole little tray of just CBD stuff because Dougie was nice enough to give me the CBD pack. So I have ACDC, I've got pure CBD isolate, a lot of it. I've got all sorts of different concoctions and I've been hitting it lately and It definitely doesn't block my ability to feel the THC afterwards because I can hit some of that high THC in it.

2:16:30SamThere's really a big difference, Todd. For example, when I was in Afghanistan, I was smoking hash that was pretty much half THC and half CBD. And I can guarantee you I got high as hell, but if you take a whole bunch of pure CBD First, before any THC, then what happened to me and Rob will happen to you.

2:16:54JohnJust fill up all the receptors and there's no more room for the THC to react.

2:16:59SpeakerCan I ask this then, Sam? If you're saying there was already, if I'm already dabbing high THC, that will inhibit the CBD's ability to inhibit the THC?

2:17:11SamWell, to a certain degree, yes, it's kind of complicated because other people have told me in California that they were way too high on just THC, eating or smoking or whatever they did. And they smoked a whole bunch of pure CBD and they came down off of it too. Yeah, I guess maybe if you smoke them at exactly the same time, it gets high, but it takes longer in onset, reduced peak experience, and it lasts longer.

2:17:44BubblemanAnd how could you possibly learn about these things without first isolating them and playing around? For those of you that are like, stop playing with the plant, stop trying to be God, just let it be. It's like, no, there's important education to be learned in separating the things out, learning about the terpenes, learning about... The different phytocannabinoids that are present and the ratios that they're present in and how they interact with one another.

2:18:09SamMy focus was recreational, so how could I tell without trying the pure cannabinoid, which I did with the top ten of them.

2:18:21JohnWhat's the thing with people? They smoke too much, supposedly. And then they get paranoid. What is the paranoia? A tap on the shoulder about that's who you really might be and so it scares the shit out of you? Or what? It's fear of the fear. It's not real.

2:18:38SpeakerHas anyone on the panel had paranoia from pot? Or really? Wait, wait, wait. I want to bring up something that Natasha was talking about. And that is that in biology, especially in the way that chemistry interacts with biological receptors... Where you are in terms of concentration really is very important to understand. So everyone knows about DEET. DEET is the insect repellent. Just to let you know, at high concentration, yeah, it's a good insect repellent.

2:19:07SpeakerAt low concentration, it actually attracts insects. So where you are in your concentration continuum is extremely important to understand. And we were talking earlier about doses that they were giving these You know, laboratory animals were like hundreds, if not thousands of times greater than like a human would get. So really the dose of these things, like when we were talking about terpenes, whether you're, you know, getting a little bit of terpenes just by consuming fruits and vegetables like you would, you're certainly not inhaling a whole cloud of this stuff deep into your lungs.

2:19:43SpeakerSo the concentration, especially With some of these compounds, it's going to be really, really important to determine, you know, how safe they really are for humans to come in contact with.

2:19:57BubblemanBut wasn't that one of the snips that she was talking about that Natasha mentioned a couple of weeks ago in regards to cannabis making certain people anxious, anxietous? I mean, I always thought prohibition had a lot to do with the paranoia because it's not paranoia if they're really fucking out to get you, the last time I heard.

2:20:14SpeakerThere's a snip in biology. Sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say, like, the receptors that they're acting on have to be acted on in sort of like a concentration-dependent way in such that, you know, you don't necessarily know, like, you're putting stuff, you're putting a kid on the teeter-totter and you don't know, is it going to turn it on, is it going to turn it off?

2:20:35SpeakerWith angiogenesis, for example, there are certain peptides that induce... New blood vessel formation, but at different concentrations, they inhibit new blood vessel formation. So there's kind of like a saturation of the receptor that basically happens in biology that could certainly be like a switch that gets turned on And so biological processes happen after that. But if you flood the receptor and you're getting way too many of these things turned on, it's going to like overheat or something.

2:21:08SpeakerThe system gets put into overdrive and now the physiological action that you're looking for is being masked by some other symptomology because you've just overloaded this receptor system. A switch of turning on and off happens in biology a lot. And a lot depends on the concentration of the molecules and the receptors that are binding that triggers that interaction. And then what you were saying about the genetic SNP changes, so that...

2:21:39SpeakerIt's complicated, but basically what I was talking about is, so there's some people who have, I think it's about 10 to 20% of the population, have this genetic mutation, not a mutation, but a change, where the enzyme pha that breaks down anandamide works differently. So some people either make more anandamide, which is our bliss molecule, and some people naturally make less. So they've looked at people who have these SNPs or these genetic changes and shown that some people who have certain ways of expressing it tend to be more prone to developing anxiety when they're exposed to cannabis or vice versa.

2:22:15SpeakerBut again, this isn't like, oh, you have this SNP. Like, you can't just go look at your genes and say, oh, I have this SNP. This means when I smoke cannabis, it's going to make me anxious. No, it may mean you may be more susceptible to getting anxiety, but again, it's so situational dependent and dependent on what that person's, you know, even eaten that day or where they psychologically are, so we have to be careful with these genetic changes.

2:22:39SpeakerThey suggest they may make you more susceptible to something, but they're not like, oh, I have this, this means this now, like that's... Very simplistic way of understanding it. These things are very complex and very determined about genetic interactions. So, and dose, of course.

2:22:59SpeakerNobody's got anything?

2:23:01BubblemanOh no, I thought it froze up for a second. That's very interesting, for sure. I mean, it was the question, right? Why do some people get paranoid? Why do some people have anxiety?

2:23:10SpeakerWe don't know is the answer. We don't know. People have different responses and it's complicated. I don't think it's ever going to come down to like, aha, there's the answer. Like, it's so complicated. So I think we're going to have situations where you may be more... You may respond differently to it, right? And I mean, everyone's had that experience where sometimes you can consume something or, I mean, it depends on the strain, it depends on the terpenoids, it depends on your friends, it depends on your mind.

2:23:36SpeakerLike, these are complicated things. Science tries to make things simple, but it isn't.

2:23:42Etienne FontanRight, it comes down to individualism, biorhythms, what they ingest, what they currently have in their system, what they may be deficient of. It's so subjective.

2:23:52JohnThe paranoia part

2:23:55JohnI really think it's connected in not a small way to expectations, misunderstandings of the situations around you, and not being able to relate it to your current viewpoint of how things are going, which makes you feel ill at ease. And it doesn't take long for ill at ease to turn into paranoia if you take a drug that's going to amplify Your mind to turn around and see itself.

2:24:24JohnAnd if there's one thing pot does is it makes you look back, it makes you look inward. And that's probably again why the rats didn't want to involve themselves in the experiment anymore because they realized it was a huge waste of time.

2:24:38SamThey got paranoid.

2:24:41JohnOh yeah, maybe they got paranoid. Maybe they won't give it to us anymore.

2:24:47SpeakerI think Donald Trump bombed them out. Thanks.

2:24:52BubblemanI wouldn't be surprised, you know, I definitely saw that very thing that you just mentioned in psilocybin mushrooms and people, you know, creating what they would call the bad trip. I had trips that weren't comfortable, but there was a lot of learning, not quite the same as like looking at yourself and not recognizing yourself or not being happy with who you are. I definitely saw people go into...

2:25:15SamIt's very similar to fear of the fear. It's called fear of letting go. Right. That's what does it on psychedelics. If you're afraid to let go, you will fight the flow and have a problem.

2:25:30SpeakerYeah.

2:25:31BubblemanThat's very true. Surrender to the flow, right, Mark? Oh, my goodness, yeah. Sometimes the flow is pretty intense, and sometimes you don't want to ride a 200-foot wave on a penny board, but that's okay.

2:25:45JohnI've been on that bus.

2:25:47BubblemanOh, man. Whew. Hell, yeah. Good old psilocybins, psilocybins, psilocities.

2:25:56JohnDefinitely the thing that put me most in touch with myself way back when, when I was completely misunderstanding everything pretty much because, let's see, maybe that only stopped yesterday. But anyhow, the thing that I, the one drug experience that I can turn around and point to and say it was life altering and not just getting high. It was the original hug drug, MDA. And I took that in a group setting with about 50 people.

2:26:29JohnAnd it was long, long ago. And it was by, it was somebody who whipped it up because they were dissatisfied with their job where they were. And they saw the formula and so they whipped some up. And so we all 50 took it. And it altered my life because The first thing that happened was I felt my heart chakra fill up and burst open. And I looked around the room and I realized that some of the people who were in that room, under normal circumstances, I would want to slap them.

2:27:03JohnBut after I took this, my whole heart and mind opened at the same time. And I saw everybody in the room and I loved everybody in the room. And it was the first time I ever felt that way. And I didn't want to let go of that when I came down. I wondered to myself, the big challenge in life is how to do this and not be high.

2:27:22JohnOr how to get high without using something to bring you to that place. Because... It's truly a wonderful place to look around the room and see. It's like being here. You look around the room, you know, everybody is part of it and they've all got something to contribute. And those are the kind of feelings that I got at that time. And so, I mean, smoking a joint with friends, it's great.

2:27:48JohnDon't get me wrong. Mushrooms, wonderful. But that MDA thing made a lasting effect on me and I... Yeah, too bad it's not so easy to come by anymore. Even at my age, I wouldn't mind having one sitting around for the ultimate moment, huh?

2:28:06BubblemanWell, they can't have people looking around a room and loving everyone. It's profitable to have people wanting to slap people.

2:28:13JohnI know. You know, for some reason or other, the people at the back of the cave who are the ones who dreamed up money and now have worked their way to the front of the cave and they seem to be running things. I don't know.

2:28:26BubblemanWell, I always thought of it as, you know, people who are not sociopathic certainly aren't going to be involved in building a sociopathic system and wanting to control that system.

2:28:40JohnSociopathic systems are a lot like a Sherman tank, you know. They're armored up everywhere and when it gets right down to it, they got a goddamn cannon up there, which is, you know, they'll let you have that too. And we're all stuck with it because the sociopaths always want to be in charge. And a long time ago, the people who used to be in charge were never the people who wanted to be in charge.

2:29:05JohnThey would always say, oh, let's consult the priest and the wise men and let's ask all the good people. And then the king would make up his mind about what ought to happen. But these days, it's nothing to do with that. It's all to do with money, power, and the It's just like all the things that Dr. Natasha was talking about with research. Research is completely driven by funds and how you can get the funds and how you can keep the funds coming is to give the answers that they are looking for when they're spending the money.

2:29:38JohnAnd they're spending the money to prove something that's going to better their pocketbook. And I've seen damn little research in another direction myself over the years.

2:29:49SpeakerYeah, and unfortunately it's going to keep getting worse because it's really hard for researchers to get money. It's a stressful time to be a researcher. For young researchers like me, who I graduated from my PhD a year ago, and the hope we have, like right now I'm supposed to be doing a post-doc and Be excited to make $50,000 a year because that's what postdocs make. And that's fine if that's still considered part of my training, which is supposed to be a two-year training, and then you get a professor position, right?

2:30:24SpeakerThat doesn't exist anymore. Now, like, people from my lab that are doing postdocs, they're on year seven. Seven years of doing a postdoc. Like, can you imagine? You have, like, I have 15 years of university and that's, like, what I'm supposed to be doing right now. Like, it's crazy. So this whole field doesn't even, like, academia doesn't exist as it used to. There's no money for researchers, so there's a real desperation to find money.

2:30:48SpeakerSo unfortunately, you're really right in that we're going to see more of this industry-funded stuff that Thank you for joining us.

2:31:21SpeakerRemember that if you don't show what they want you to show, we might not be able to publish. So, I was like, no thank you, I'm not going to risk my degree on not being able to publish because the company is now in control of my work. So, I was lucky and could get funding, but for most researchers who want to do good research, it's getting harder because there's not just that clean money that's like with open...

2:31:47SpeakerThank you.

2:32:08SpeakerThank you for watching.

2:32:27SpeakerEven, like, there's a researcher I follow on Twitter, and she just left her institution, and she, I was reading, and she was complaining about, she had tried to go get crowdsource funding, and as a younger researcher, all the old dudes were making fun of her, and just like, she became like a laughing stock of her institution, because she had tried to do something different, and so... There's a lot of pressure to conform to do things the way they've always been done and for young researchers it's scary because there's no place for us and so a lot of people are figuring out alternative ways to do research and do meaningful research because there's people out there with passion and they're tired of drinking the Kool-Aid and having to believe in some model that doesn't actually do what they think it's doing.

2:33:11SpeakerThere's also a lot of bullshit.

2:33:13JohnWe all need to get together along with all the rest of the people who listen to Ask Church and all the people they know to create and fund a National Institute for Research of Pot, all the aspects of it, where we can invite people like yourself in. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:33:55SpeakerFear? Not quite fear. Like, I feel good about what I'm doing, but when people are looking at what I'm doing, I'm doing something non-traditional. So people are like, well, what are you doing? Like, how are you going to get a job at the university? Like, that's all they're looking for. Or, how are you going to get a job with a company? And I'm like, I'm going to make my own company.

2:34:11SpeakerI'm going to make my own things. We started our own business because I feel like the questions I have to study are not being studied and if I work under someone else in their lab I have to study their projects or else it's really weird because As a grad student, you're treated like you're an idiot most of the time. There's a lot of language used to keep you very insecure and doubting, so mostly so that they can continue to underpay you and overwork you and you just think, oh, I'm so lucky, I'm so lucky, like it's insane.

2:34:43SpeakerBut when they give you research projects or when you write a research project, what happens is you, like for instance, when I was a PhD, I wrote an NSERC grant I brought in over half a million dollars. My name is nowhere on the grant. I didn't receive any money from the grant. That was just considered a side gig that I did as a student. That doesn't make any sense.

2:35:05SpeakerAs a student, I drank the Kool-Aid and was like, oh, this is the way it is. I guess I just do this side work and that's just part of my training. You're so used to being taken advantage of and asked to do things for free that you don't even know how to ask for money anymore. It's so messed up. It's so messed up.

2:35:23JohnThey put your name on there, they're going to have to give you money later.

2:35:26SpeakerBut they don't, they don't. And that's the thing, you think as a researcher, like, oh, if I just put in this work, then I'll be rewarded later. Like, I thought my whole PhD, you know, put in the good work and then there'll be some shiny position for me at the end. And then you finish and you realize, like, no one gives a shit about you, no one cares.

2:35:43SpeakerLike, oh, I was in this little... Thank you so much for being here.

2:36:13SamYou know, both funding and looking for funding. And for cannabis, forget it. It was, we're going to find something bad and you can't get any funds. Now that's all changing. It is. Over the next generation, next ten years, you'll see a complete turnaround. Already now there's so many brand new studies on cannabis that it's unbelievable.

2:36:41SpeakerAnd you're absolutely right and it is really exciting and that's why when I see these bad studies that are just propaganda based coming out I just, I have to say something because I want to encourage researchers and promote researchers who are doing good things and actually And it doesn't mean, like, I'm not, you don't have to look at the question biased. You don't have to start at saying cannabis is going to be the best for this.

2:37:04SpeakerIt's like, no, you need to be a researcher about it. You need to say, I don't know. I'm going to look and see if it does that. You can't start the research question confirming it's bad or good. That's not research. So it's just, it's... Thank you for watching.

2:37:34SpeakerI feel like my role right now is to talk about these things and just even give younger researchers confidence so that they can question these things also and you don't have to just sit there and be like, I think this is wrong, but I don't know if I should say anything because I'm too scared to say anything because that's how I lived for 10 years. It's silly and it's slowing the whole thing down and it's harming patients.

2:37:56Etienne FontanWell, it's also harming the perception because then people say, I hear people all the time say, well, you know, how can you even trust research because the researchers rely on the money from other people to do their research and they don't realize, well, they're doing this because that's how the system is. These people have ethics and actually want to find out an answer to a question and as we know, the frustration with Thank you so much for joining us.

2:38:46SamChanged his study from finding something good about cannabis to finding something bad about cannabis, and the NIDA allowed an immediate

2:38:57Etienne FontanAbsolutely, yeah, I totally remember that. I mean, that was all, I mean, we used to go to all to the DPA meetings and stuff every year, and it was always discussions on the frustration of the inability to, you know, get any type of research money. So, yeah, that was the thing, and that was the light on when, you know, he actually had to prove negative, and then the money came in.

2:39:21Etienne FontanI was like, okay, well... That just reinforces what we've heard because now I know directly from Dr. Abrams is now he's actually getting his money into his study just to prove the negative. And of course he told us he's trying to find the positive but he has to state the negative just to get that. So I mean that's already an uphill battle and that's only happened, what, doctor, in the last generation.

2:39:43Etienne FontanSo I can't imagine the challenges you consider getting Daily, as you say, you're constantly subjected to fear and manipulation so that you don't question outside the normal system or go for research dollars outside of it and that's why You know, I say we need a germplasm institute. Part of that germplasm institute needs, you know, any type of think tank needs researchers culling through the data. And we know there's more than enough data and research that could be done on cannabis to last every single one of here into your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren.

2:40:19SamWell, I'll support your effort, but people have been calling for a cannabis germplasm for more than 30 years. And the problem is the people who really have the materials have spent a lot of money collecting them, and it's not so easy to achieve. Also, you need very talented people to run it. So, you know, it's hard to find somebody who wants to do a non-profit cannabis germplasm institute.

2:40:48SamI have my doubts. Maybe it'll happen, but I may happen with rice and corn and all this, but I just...

2:40:57JohnI like his t-shirt. Did you see it? Science doesn't care what you believe.

2:41:06SpeakerYeah, right, right.

2:41:07BubblemanIt's not bad. There's a couple people commenting on that t-shirt in the chat room actually, ATN.

2:41:13Etienne FontanIt's true. And that's why I've always researched the science. That's why we have doctors here on our panel. You know, I don't care what you believe about cannabis. I got into cannabis because I heard I was burning brain cells. Turns out science proved that was wrong. And so I divert to science, even as an atheist. I go to what is proved, what I can see, what I know.

2:41:31Etienne FontanI can go with sort of what I don't know because that's just the mysteries of what we're ingesting in our own hallucinations on a daily basis. But I think that science has proven what we've all anecdotally known regarding cannabis, regarding our own experiences and seeing how it's helped other people, the sharing, how it's in smoking circles. Everything about it is really, for me, has come back to science.

2:41:59Etienne FontanThat's why we started You know, when Addison was on here, I was working with him when he was first starting into science back in 2006, 2007, because I have such a fascination for what we know, because what we know we can prove. We can now say there's actual medical need for marijuana. When Todd and I were talking 22 years ago out on tour, they're saying, you're high, there's no such thing as medical marijuana, you guys are crazy.

2:42:26Etienne FontanSure, you survived cancer 10 times, and marijuana, you know, you're alive today, and sure, you're some vet who survived, but there's no science to back that up. That's all in your head. Well, in the last 20-some-odd years, science has actually proven it has, it's medical, you know, efficacious. It's not only that, it's we found other, re-found other chemicals like CBD that are changing the whole dialogue altogether, and that's been why?

2:42:50Etienne FontanBecause of science, because we found those researchers, and we got that, you know, gas chromatographed, Actually calibrated so that we could actually know THC. Oh, and then we found CBD. And now we've got CBG, CBN, and all these others that we're going to continue to find thanks to researchers like you, Natasha, and Dr. Scaldone that are pushing that. And it's nothing better than science to prove it because As the shirt says, it doesn't care what you believe.

2:43:20Etienne FontanScience is replicatable. You can actually redo these results and actually see them. I don't care what you believe, but if you can give me results that prove it, even better. Sorry for my diatribe. I just love science.

2:43:36BubblemanAnd it all started just by hearing John say to his wife, did you see his shirt?

2:43:43JohnSorry about that, Mark. I didn't realize that my microphone wasn't muted when I said that to my wife. Because I say those kinds of things all the time and people around me are, you know, yeah, they just think that I say that kind of stuff because of the business I'm involved in and yeah.

2:44:06Etienne FontanBut it's reinforced everything that you have. Science has reinforced your entire existence, John.

2:44:13JohnOh, listen, if it wasn't for science, I'd be somewhere, you know, beating the bushes and throwing nets out trying to catch enough fish to keep everybody fed.

2:44:23Etienne FontanI kind of always, I always wonder what I would have never, what I would have turned out to be if it hadn't been for cannabis. You know, my entire life is surrounded, you know, what, the panel here, what would you do if you weren't doing cannabis? What would you actually be doing with yourself?

2:44:38SamI honestly can't say, but I can say this. The first time that a friend, when I was about 17 years old, gave me a big box filled with about 10 different bags and plastic bags from, he was a cannabis pot dealer, and he gave me all the sort of dregs, leftover seeds, stems, to clean down, and I put, I rubbed them all on top of a screen and was just trying to get, you know, the powdered I started having this sort of weird deja vu feeling.

2:45:22SamMan, I've been doing this for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. And it was a really weird feeling. I don't really believe in reincarnation or spiritual stuff that much, but I definitely felt that way.

2:45:38JohnWhere do you think deja vu comes from then?

2:45:41SamDeja vu? I don't know. Maybe it happened before.

2:45:45JohnWell, exactly. Well, you can look at it two ways. You're either reincarnating or you're reaching across the various parallel dimensions to your other self.

2:45:56SamI can tell you, John, what I think about reincarnation. It's the ego's last scream. It says, no, I'm always going to be. I'm not going.

2:46:08Etienne FontanI have to say it's more toward the second. I have had multiple deja vus in my life and I think there's got to be a way that we can cross either subconsciously or I've done it consciously with ketamine and others where cross language barriers subconsciously with people so there's got to be realms and our patterns of sleep or that allow us to cross over because I've had deja vus way too many times in my life where I'm like there's no way I didn't see this exact situation.

2:46:37SamI have no need to believe that I'm going to be reincarnated forever and ever. I just, I don't need it. I don't want it. In fact, I can't think of anything more horrible.

2:46:49SpeakerI agree. It's a fear. Well, there's a problem though. If you follow the farthest lines of science right now, quantum physics, and you really geek out, you learn that we're coexisting in 11 fabrics or 11 dimensions. So, you're always going to be existing infinitely.

2:47:07SamWell, the 11ers is what your scientists have discovered so far. The space president told me there's 23.

2:47:13SpeakerI think there's 12, but yeah, just because it lines up with music. But you coexist already, forever. We're just on a linear time path as humans, but we coexist in time. Look at this guy.

2:47:32BubblemanI always thought deja vu was like a glimpse of your future. And then you don't even realize you glimpsed it, and then you're like in that future, in the now, and you're like, whoa, I've experienced this before. People say, I've seen this before. I don't know. I don't pretend to know exactly what it is, but it's definitely something that's trippy. I think it's happened to everybody.

2:47:58Etienne FontanOf course. Has anybody here, has it not happened to you? Have you not had a deja vu experience?

2:48:04JohnWell, but you have to remember what Mark just said. His idea of deja vu may not be the same as everyone else's. And the context in which I was using it was appearing somewhere or going somewhere for what I know is the first time physically, but taking a look around and recognizing it and feeling familiar with it. And I've had that with people. I've met them. The first time and became immediately close to them and I think it's because I must have traveled in a circle with those people before.

2:48:39JohnAnd I think you don't meet anybody that you're not already connected to.

2:48:46SamWell, if you really believe in reincarnation and time all as one, then we could all just be one being in many incarnations.

2:48:56JohnExactly. In fact, the Hindus... A lot on that one. You know, they say there's one God, but he has 108 different aspects to him, and each aspect can actually be a filled-out person, you know, like Pravati. It just depends. I mean, that's just one belief system, and the Hindus go back a long way, and they had a lot of what you'd call evidence that is not scientific.

2:49:24JohnHowever, It appears to be true anyway to do with that and there's a lot of stuff. You've got to travel around India. You've been to India before. If you're around India a while and you start looking into the depth of India and start realizing there's so much there that is looked at as mythology and

2:49:50JohnWhen you go there yourself and look at it, it doesn't feel like mythology at all. It feels like, you know, when I got to India and got off the plane, I collapsed on the runway the first time and just was in touch with the earth and I felt like I'd arrived back home. And that kept me going there for years and years and years. Never felt that way in the U.S. like I'd come back home.

2:50:14JohnTo me, always coming here, customs, all kinds of other horse shit.

2:50:20SamTo be honest, I've never felt home on Earth. I always thought I was from some other planet.

2:50:27SpeakerI think you might be as well, Sam. You are from another planet. I can attest. You're 100% from another planet. Your body was taken over probably early 70s.

2:50:39SamI feel so much relief that I wasn't imagining that.

2:50:45SpeakerNo, for sure. Something happened in the 70s, 250 micro doses in.

2:50:51SpeakerAnd a little switcheroo happened, and you were probably gone for 12 hours. It felt like 0.2 seconds. And you since then have been just a human body on the outside.

2:51:06JohnI keep waiting for that little guy in the chair to wave at us and wink.

2:51:11BubblemanYou've got to take more mushrooms, John.

2:51:15JohnYeah, well.

2:51:16SamWell, one night, John, he did have headphones on.

2:51:21SpeakerI remember that.

2:51:25SpeakerYou're the only other person I've ever hung out with. Bubble Man's right there, though, as a second. But I would say that the entire time I've hung out with you, and this was four or five days in a row, sleeping in the same facility, if you will, apartment and things, you constantly smoked hashish or resin. To the point where I was, you know, I'd wake up to go to the bathroom.

2:51:48SpeakerIt'd be 6.30, 7 in the morning. I'd be shuffling around. I can't see you. Like, hey, how's it going? Somebody's up. You want to smoke? I was like, I'm just going to the restroom. You're like, oh, I've got this whole thing going on already. And, I mean, it wouldn't matter. And then I'd go to bed after you. You were still up nights, like, smoking. So I don't know if you really even sleep.

2:52:09SpeakerIt's almost as if you're consuming more Thank you for joining us.

2:52:40BubblemanGoing to do a couple of decades in a short time.

2:52:46BubblemanWell, that was a very lovely rip of rosin.

2:52:50Etienne FontanWhat flavor was that?

2:52:52BubblemanThat was the Congolese. I've just been fiending on this Congolese. It's so lovely, but very, very strong for sharing. You've got to be careful. You can't be sharing with people you just meet in the supermarket that recognize you from Hash Church.

2:53:07Etienne FontanYeah, he can ruin some people's days, that's for sure.

2:53:10BubblemanActually, it made his night for sure. He was stoked to be higher than he's ever been.

2:53:16JohnI can't wait to try Congolese. I've only heard about it, never actually had my hand. I haven't had any fresh stash for six months. I've been still smoking last year's stuff.

2:53:27BubblemanWe can change that, John. Does that say Red Congolese or is it backwards? It says Der Isologanock. No, it's perfect. I'm just joking.

2:53:40Etienne FontanIt's perfect. It comes through fine. On our little screens it comes through backwards, but on the big screen it comes through fine.

2:53:52Etienne FontanBeautiful.

2:53:53BubblemanHey, welcome Mike. Michael Manning. He's got his headphones off now that I'm welcoming him. In with Tony.

2:54:04Etienne FontanOh, you know, that's how it goes sometimes. Yeah, I'm doing some of the Sarah Cush here. Thank you very much. Bubble Man's. We put out the press release this week for Bubble Man brand products there. Thank you, Tony and everybody, for making that possible at Berkeley Patients Group. So our patients can enjoy the turps and everything, and they definitely are. So much love and much appreciation.

2:54:26SpeakerYeah, man. Way to get it. Mark, we got a kick in the ass. I'm going to try to make a red Congolese temple ball with a combination of flower rosin, hash rosin, and fulmel, and red Congolese terpies. You better drop a sample off next time.

2:54:42JohnYeah, save me a little tiny piece of that. Enough to fry my delicate lungs.

2:54:49Etienne FontanHey, Indra, anytime if you make it down to the bay, you know, reach out to me. I'll be more than happy to give you a tour of BPG anytime.

2:54:58JohnWell, I have to go down there fairly soon to get a CAT scan of my back because I have titanium cages in it holding me together and it seems that one of them has come loose or it's thumping in there and every now and then when it thumps it gives me an electric shock which floors me. So I've got to come down there to let the VA take a picture of it.

2:55:24JohnIn a machine. And when I do, I want to definitely stop by and see Tony and you.

2:55:34BubblemanBe good fun.

2:55:37BubblemanI can't wait to get down there myself. There's so much going on and it's hard to... It's just another part of this sort of control that they put on you with a record, with the felony charges of cannabis. It's like, oh, you can't. You can't go down into another country that is basically doing all of this down there, growing, processing, selling, distribution, dispensaries, recreational, medical. It's all happening in America, yet I can't go down there.

2:56:10JohnYou would taint the system, though. You see here, Canadians are known to taint systems everywhere. A Canadian, putting a Canadian in the community is like dropping one drop of milk in five gallons of water. You can't get it back out.

2:56:29BubblemanThat's pretty accurate too. We're all over the world.

2:56:33JohnYeah, that's why they don't want you here because you guys don't have the control system that we've got here. The control system we've got here is far greater depth and evilness than the one you've got going in Canada.

2:56:46BubblemanFor sure, yeah. We're just like the little You know, the little brother or whatever.

2:56:50SamOr as Robin Williams put it. As a victim of the Canadian justice system, I disagree. They're way more evil. Dude, are you kidding?

2:56:59BubblemanThey told you you couldn't come in and then you just got in anyway.

2:57:03SamOh, that's right. But that was my initiative, not theirs. Yeah, it's true.

2:57:11JohnYou're right. Just put a turban on and show up in... At the airport and pretend you don't speak English. Hello, I am from India.

2:57:22BubblemanWe have people at our airport that speak many, many, many languages. Because the thing about Canada is we are a melting pot of the world. People from all over the world live in Canada and are Canadian.

2:57:36JohnYeah, but you don't find that in an American airport. You speak American or you get arrested.

2:57:41BubblemanAmerican, that's awesome. You speak American.

2:57:45Etienne FontanYeah, don't be speaking Canadian.

2:57:49JohnWell, that's just how they are. I mean, the man here is as far off the deep end of control freakism as it gets. Listen, as I said way back in the 80s, you could fly in to Vancouver from India with a suitcase full of hash and ride a taxi across the border. Try that now. Jesus.

2:58:11BubblemanI don't think you'd get out of India.

2:58:14JohnYeah, well, you couldn't leave India with a suitcase full of hash anymore either because, you know, it's just, you know, that was those days and this is these days.

2:58:24BubblemanWell, thank God we're making hash now, you know. Back in those days, you really relied on them doing the job that they were doing. Being a smuggler was doing the righteous work of getting the hash where it needed to be, into your joints, into your pipes. You couldn't, most people didn't have access to it. To simply do that. Before that, it was, you know, the herb that people were importing.

2:58:45BubblemanThank God for that. That brought a lot of genetics. That brought seeds. That brought, you know, these ideas and concepts of people starting to breed and try to make something that was worthwhile, you know, locally.

2:58:56JohnThe first concept is the one that you mentioned earlier in the morning, which was, I need money.

2:59:03BubblemanYeah. Yeah, everyone, well, or I need to get away from What's keeping me doing something that I don't want to be doing, you know, because growing cannabis is relatively... John, what year did you see your first Simpsonia?

2:59:21JohnSay again?

2:59:23SamWhat year did you see your first Simpsonia marijuana?

2:59:28JohnSeedless. My first one I saw in 1966 in Coochie, Vietnam.

2:59:38SamFar out. I saw it a year or two later. It was coming up from Mexico.

2:59:48JohnWe had a tough time finding seeds to smuggle back. I sent a San Yo refrigerator, a little teeny tiny one, the kind that you could buy. When I was in Vietnam, we didn't have to pass our mail through customs. It just came directly and went to the address. Nobody was looking in your packages. And that was something that they were supposedly doing for SGI's. And so I took full advantage of that.

3:00:13JohnAnd I sent a whole bunch of those Sanyo refrigerators back full of pot. But one of them had a lot of seeds.

3:00:23SamDid you see Park Lane's?

3:00:25JohnDid I see what?

3:00:27SamPark Lane's cigarettes. They were filled up. Oh, yes.

3:00:31JohnBut you know what? What was a lot more popular in Vietnam was you'd go to the PX, buy Cools and Salem's, take them down and give them to Papa Son. He would suck all the tobacco out of them, put them in the park lanes, suck it back in the bin.

3:00:43SamYeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

3:00:45JohnPut marijuana in the Salem and Cool things.

3:00:50Etienne FontanSo your stuff was already pre-rolled.

3:00:53JohnThey were pre-rolled and with a filter on them that made them taste slightly menthol. It was kind of interesting.

3:01:01BubblemanDamn, Vietnam. Welcome back. Oh, I was just about to welcome Addison back. I did welcome Michael into the room, but he doesn't have his headphones on. Oh, now he can hear me.

3:01:10SpeakerWhat's up, dude? There you go. I heard you on my shoulder there. The headphones were just resting.

3:01:15BubblemanAll right. Hey, I mentioned earlier we were talking about cops, and I did see you post in the chat room. You were like, well, as a Jew, I'm sure not all Nazis were bad.

3:01:26SpeakerWell, I mean, the Nazis were like a political party, so I'm saying plenty of people, I'm sure, didn't care at all about their ideology. They just joined up so they could, like, get a little more business down at the corner store or things like that. But I'm just saying, I'm just, I'm saying a little bit, like, cop. We don't need cops in the form that they are.

3:01:45SpeakerThey're just fucking everything up. We could have a force that just goes and investigates terrible crimes and problems reported by citizens, but we don't need them wandering around finding problems on their own where problems don't exist. Ticketing. Ticketing people. There's no problem here. That's my point.

3:02:04JohnThat's like those guys showing up at a farmer's place and saying, hey, what are you going to do with this field of corn here? Are you going to make this into booze? In those circumstances, we're going to have to confiscate your farm because that's illegal. That's how the modern legal mind works.

3:02:23SpeakerThat's funny. There's actually a documentary I saw once on the History of New York on PBS where they talk about the police force in New York and there was originally actually two police forces operating simultaneously in New York that were basically like gangs and they would battle with each other for turf in the streets and they settled it by Eliminating the corrupt ones and promoting a new force that became the current police force.

3:02:47SpeakerBut we could do that again. That's my idea. Well, they didn't get it done there. Are you sure they eliminated the right one? Right. Have you spent any time in New York? Can I ask you right off my first thought? See, all the chops have shifted over to the way Minority Report was written. They're like, oh, we know you're going to do something. Exactly. And you're like, I'm taking you in.

3:03:08SpeakerFor what? For what you're going to do. It was 100 years ago. I mean, just like the Republicans aren't the party of Lincoln, you know, these cops aren't the same cops as the ones who cleaned house in 1900 or 1910 or whatever. I think it was the whole Tammany Hall, you know, boss tweed type thing. They had one police force, and then a new kind of professional police force came in to replace those thugs, basically, who were collecting for the political bosses.

3:03:34JohnWell, you know, terminology has a lot to do with it. Before we went to Vietnam, the Viet Cong were called the Viet Minh, which means freedom fighters. And then once we joined into the fight, they changed the name over to Viet Cong. Suddenly these guys that were freedom fighters are now the thugs. And so I guess it's just who's got the most money depends on what side you're on.

3:03:56JohnAnd that seems to be a giant game of King of the Hill going on here on Earth. And 50% of the people here are innocent victims and 2% of them are actually playing the game in earnest.

3:04:10SpeakerSure, and you know, from my perspective, I was surrounded by a bunch of assholes, so I had a rather negative overtone to it because, look, there are a lot of people that think kidnapping and robbing and jacking your shit is totally cool behavior and acting like a pirate is absolutely acceptable. And in my opinion, I've experienced these people firsthand and I think that we do need cops in all honesty or I think this place would be a fucking joke.

3:04:40SpeakerBut I think when cops run around making up shit and stealing property and using the drug war negatively, it's corrupting the whole very essence of why we need them for legitimate things like that, you know, our kids getting kidnapped or somebody being assaulted or somebody stealing your shit. That's it, Todd. There's two sides of it for sure.

3:05:02SamAnd the police, they need to go to prison just like any other violent criminal.

3:05:08Etienne FontanAnd that's more the problem that people are having.

3:05:10SamIf they're violent criminals, yeah. If they're violent criminals, yeah. There was a story about a fireman. They need to go to prison like any other violent criminal. You want them to go to prison too. You don't want violent criminals running around the streets.

3:05:24SpeakerNo, and I completely agree. I agree completely. Look, there was a story about a fireman being an arsonist. And, you know, fucking just because he put out a bunch of fires doesn't mean he can start a few. So the reality is, you know, We got to go after the criminals in society. There's no question about that. But I honestly think that in a fucking socially democratic country where we do have things that like if someone steals your truck, there's a person you can call that'll go look for it.

3:05:51SpeakerThat's kind of helpful. You know, if you're not home to protect your family and someone breaks in and they can call not the fire department but somebody that'll show up and help them, that's kind of nice. I'm just going to, you know, keep it real.

3:06:05Etienne FontanNo, I have two brothers who are Both Mormon, who are both police officers. One's passed away, rest his soul. And the other one was such a stand-up police officer, he ended up joining the FBI. And I'm a firm believer in, you know, there's need for law enforcement. Yeah, we were on opposite sides of the track, but at the same time, you know, these were the types of officers that you would want dealing with you.

3:06:28Etienne FontanThey were respectful, they weren't out trying to, you know... Look for, so I don't want to, you know, just stereotype every type of product either.

3:06:50SpeakerIn San Francisco meeting these former police officers, I mean people don't realize but the cop that was the chief of police in Seattle in 2006 was retired and spoke at the Seattle Hemp Fest in favor of legalizing cannabis. And this was six years before I-502. He made that much of a turnaround. So if we can reach these people and let them see the folly in their ways, I mean, honestly, I think this is what we need to do.

3:07:19SpeakerAnd there's a lot of good guys in LEAP, and we need a lot more like them that are cops that are rejecting prohibition.

3:07:27SamAnd they're very effective.

3:07:33John0% accountability is what's creating the current problem with law enforcement. They're not accountable for anything. If they shoot somebody, it's okay. Whatever they do is okay. And until we change the accountability equation, we're never going to get a fair deal out of these guys.

3:07:49SpeakerThere's no organization that exemplifies what you just say more than the DEA. And they've been allowed to run around the planet, eradicate cannabis, a natural plant to so many places, using American chemicals to defoliate everything in its wake. They've had unlimited budgets. They need to be protectors of the environment now instead of these drug warriors that they were in the 80s and 90s and now. Because really they've done no good whatsoever other than to try to stifle the appetite of some drugs for some people when in reality they've peddled alcohol and fucking cigarettes all around the world.

3:08:29SpeakerAnd I mean we've got to address the hypocrisy as Americans and the policy we as Americans have created Cult globally. And I think that you're absolutely right, John. But who the fuck goes and arrests the federal government? Where are the courts that try them?

3:08:47JohnWell, we just need accountability. And we're, as a people, if we can't get accountability through the

3:08:55Etienne FontanWe need local accountability. I understand the federal, but if we don't get local accountability, more of this helplessness is going to continue to be felt. We had abuses when we were out protesting the war here. We had police shooting rubber bullets at us, and the media laughed. You know, now people are being shot in the face. You know, being pulled over should not be a death sentence or resisting arrest shouldn't be a death sentence to anyone.

3:09:27JohnWell, as far as I know, nobody has said to the police that you can be judge, jury, and executioner yet. But it's starting to drift in that direction. Drift in that direction. It is that direction.

3:09:40SpeakerWell, it's always been in that direction. They are the ones holding the guns. But can I ask, though, wasn't alcohol prohibition one of the main reasons that it got ended? Because it was unenforceable because there was so much corruption and collusion with the police officers, with the criminals, and the police officers themselves became criminals.

3:09:58Etienne FontanAnd violence that was incited by it. But it was the women that created prohibition. It was the women that ended prohibition. So the women who are watching need to get active and get involved and speak out.

3:10:10JohnBureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, which is, if you ask me, three agencies that shouldn't have been as one. It's kind of crazy. Those guys weren't going to have a job anymore, so they became the Drug Enforcement Administration. That's what we have to deal with now. The guys who used to break barrels of booze open in the street now pull up pot plants for a living.

3:10:35Etienne FontanWell, they won't be doing it for much longer because with all these states coming online, they're getting less and less budget, and what was becoming quite expansive is now starting to retract. And what happens after this new election cycle, once it passes, and we have, what, it is in Oklahoma? I think Oklahoma was added this week for medical marijuana to be on the ballot. So there's quite a few states doing medical as well as legalization.

3:11:03Etienne FontanAnd it's going to have a significant play on the outcome as things continue or as we will see with cannabis won't continue.

3:11:12JohnI fear elite regulation will exclude most of us out of the game sooner or later and there will be a Monsanto of Pot growing and then it'll come packaged and so forth and so on. That's what I fear. That's my greatest fear of the whole thing. And it was that fear, that was one of the things that drove me to release BHO back in 1999. I thought, well, you know what?

3:11:38JohnThey really don't like this oil being around, so why don't I just rub it in their face?

3:11:45SpeakerI fear nothing. That would be a really good oil just to rub it in their face. They need that. Addison, a favorite. And you know what? If you go to prison, there's not a lot to fear. You just read books, sit around, talk to people. If we knew what it was really all about, a lot of us would live fearlessly and stand up for what they believed in because it's not that big a deal going to jail, everybody.

3:12:10SpeakerIt's really, really not.

3:12:11BubblemanIt's not season one of Oz?

3:12:14SpeakerWait, what? No, guys, it's not. Sorry to disappoint you, Mark. Tommy Chong called it Camp Boredom. And I think it's true. I mean, to be honest, if more people knew what you went through when you went to jail, they wouldn't be afraid of it, they'd go through it, and they would help break the system by standing up against it. I truly believe it in my heart. I mean, jail's not good.

3:12:38SpeakerThere's no question about that.

3:12:39Etienne FontanYeah, but neither is living in fear. Living in fear is not good either. Living in fear is the worst thing ever. Right, exactly. And I credit every single one of us. We've stood up. We'd rather die on our feet than live on our knees. And we've all exemplified it through every aspect of our living, and we're examples for other people.

3:12:58SpeakerThat's, you know what, you just said it so well, and my message to everybody is if you get in trouble, just be polite and flow through the system. Remember, don't argue with the pawns in front of you. Don't pick fights with the little people standing there with the fucking nightstick. Just be polite, move through it, and get out. You know what, it's not that damaging. It's not that big a deal.

3:13:18SpeakerDon't be afraid of it. Just flow right through it. Yeah, every one of us is directly connected to the placement of our teeth. In so many words, you know? And if you play the fucking game and you do what you're supposed to do, I mean, I'm just the type of person where if you infringe on my rights in any way whatsoever, or someone else's, I have an issue with that.

3:13:37SpeakerAnd I think that attitude and that mentality is what led to saying, you know, run toward fear. If you fear something, conquer it. Go look at it. Whether it's being able to pay the fucking bills or anything like that. You know, you've got a creepy neighbor, whatever the deal is, One of the ways that I've dealt with fear, and this is going to sound funny, is watching Walter White And another analogy I could use, seeing as I have a two-year-old and he loves the movie Home,

3:14:26BubblemanWhere the little aliens, what they're really good at is running away. They're just good at running away, but what they don't realize is they've accidentally stolen the genetic makeup of the entire race of this race of beings that is chasing them everywhere they go. And it's not until one stands up and runs towards the fear, changes the whole outlook on the way they look at shit, and realizes this race of people that were chasing them down is actually just a single...

3:14:55BubblemanThank you for watching.

3:15:18SpeakerYeah, and I've always tried to keep in perspective that I was fighting a system and not a person. When I was going through the system, I never lost sight that it was Bureau of Prisons or the American Justice System. It wasn't single people. And really, along the line, I've met a lot of nice people. Nice present guard, so to speak, that, you know, even 15 years after I got out of jail, after they retired, contacted me and said, you know, man, you made a difference in your life, and I'm using medical marijuana now that I'm retired.

3:15:48SpeakerAnd that blew my fucking mind that these guys were actually listening to what I was saying, and, you know, and it, you know, they're all humans, too, you know, so.

3:16:00Etienne FontanBut stick to your beliefs more than anything. Always. We have all proven in one way, shape or form. When I originally lost... Our election for our permit just in Berkeley, I didn't realize that we would have to sue Diebold in the end and that we'd win. You know how many people told me that we were crazy suing Diebold? You're never going to win. It's not going to happen.

3:16:19Etienne FontanYou're not going to beat the county of Alameda. Oh, I won. And people said the same thing when the government was evicting me from my other. You shouldn't fight the federal government. They're just going to kick your head in and it's going to make it worse. Don't fight it. Well, I fought it and it's been four years going and they're getting ready to concede. So, you know.

3:16:37Etienne FontanYou have to stick to your beliefs every time. If not, somebody said, if you don't stick to your beliefs in times of strife, your principles, then they're only hobbies.

3:16:50JohnWell, listen, here's another way of saying that. When you want to dig down inside for strength... If you've played the wrong game, all you find is all the weakness of that game. And if you've lived right and real, when you dig down inside looking for strength, it's there for you.

3:17:09SpeakerJust be a savage. You'll be fine.

3:17:12JohnYeah. Absolutely.

3:17:14SpeakerWe're all savages, right?

3:17:16JohnYeah. Listen, I agree with you 100%. I've had nothing but problems with authority figures all my life. My father was a sergeant major in the Army, and I grew up on Army bases all over the fucking planet. And I have nothing but contempt for authority. I've been in the backseat of more military policeman cars than Mark has in his hometown there of regular police cars. I was a legend.

3:17:41JohnMy dad was a fucking military policeman. And I was a legend all over military bases all over the world for getting picked up by the military police and brought home.

3:17:52SpeakerYou might have just been bad at doing crime though.

3:17:54JohnYeah, I probably was. I mean, my dad had a lot of strange ways. He thought I was drinking, and I didn't drink because he poured gin in my mouth once when I was eight, and I never wanted to drink. But he thought I was because I got busted with a bunch of guys who are drinking beer, and he put a Michelob 16-ounce can around my neck on a chain and made me wear it to school every day for six months to get me to stop drinking, which I never did in the first place.

3:18:22SpeakerThat's a pretty dope steelo, actually.

3:18:25JohnYeah, that was a funny guy.

3:18:27SpeakerIt's an old school pendant.

3:18:31JohnNo, he was just a, he was a sergeant major. He heard everything that there is to hear. He's heard every excuse, every story. You know, he trained troops to go to war in World War II.

3:18:43Etienne FontanYeah, it's a top NCO. It's a top non-commissioned officer there is.

3:18:47JohnYeah, he was like a five-star general in his... In his league, you know, and believe me or me, when he said hop, people were usually three, four foot in the air before they started questioning about how high they needed to go.

3:19:00Etienne FontanI was about to say, he was the person who said oh high all day.

3:19:02JohnYeah. So I grew up around that, and as you know, real control freaks create hippies, and so that's what happened.

3:19:13SpeakerMy parents were hippies and they created the control freaks. I think it might have been the complete opposite.

3:19:18JohnWell, it happens both ways. Every microphone's a speaker, and every speaker's a microphone. As Buddha was cruising down the river, sitting there eating bird turds for nothing, because he didn't want to entertain doing anything else.

3:19:34SpeakerSipping breast milk down the river Ganges.

3:19:37JohnA boat went by, and on the boat there was a guy teaching another guy how to play a sitar. And Buddha heard him say, If you tighten the string too tight, it'll break, and if you don't tighten it enough, you won't get the sound. And that's the moment when he chose the middle path. Least resistance. Didn't work for him, I guess.

3:19:57Etienne FontanI don't know.

3:19:59SpeakerYeah. Great story.

3:20:01Etienne FontanSounds like he was strung out.

3:20:05BubblemanThanks. I almost need some sad radio sound effects.

3:20:13SpeakerYeah. Like the music from The Incredible Hulk?

3:20:16SamThere you go. There's a lot of stories that say that Buddha lived on just a handful of cannabis seeds a day.

3:20:25Etienne FontanIt was one hemp seed a day.

3:20:27SamWell, that was an exaggeration. The truth was it was a handful.

3:20:32Etienne FontanIt would have to be because that was not enough.

3:20:35BubblemanThe truth was that it was an actual shovel full of bird shit that he picked the seeds out of.

3:20:42SamHe filtered out the exact handful of seeds. You've got to remember the Buddhist famous saying which is, well, life is suffering and then you die.

3:20:54SpeakerWell, he also said never trust a fuckboy. Which is another very important guy.

3:20:59JohnWell, you know, the birds would land on him, Mark, and shit on him. And he would pick those seeds out of that. Because at the time where Buddha was around there, there was a lot of marijuana plants growing in India. And so the story about him picking them out of the birch is probably not so far from the truth.

3:21:16SpeakerI think this solves what we were talking about earlier as to who found the first ass terpenes. And brought them to light. I think it was Buddha. It was Buddha. It was, with the bird shit.

3:21:26BubblemanMan, shit's blowing up on Hash Church right now.

3:21:31Etienne FontanHe had his Shiva together, yo.

3:21:34JohnActually, Buddha could have been the very first person on Earth to fart a terpene fart, I guess.

3:21:41SpeakerAs we discover, together.

3:21:43Etienne FontanI think we should blow smoke in general directions.

3:21:52SpeakerI feel like I've been blowing smoke all day. I know. How long does this thing go for? I'm like cooking chicken and shit right now. I don't even know. There's so much going down here. That's awesome, too. Well, a long time ago, before there was like these certain rules, like that's like how it had to happen. Like I was doing laundry. I'd eat. I would do all kinds of stuff, and then slowly these like rules happen in Hash Church.

3:22:15SpeakerSo now it's like a four-hour run, and I'm starving. Every time Bubble Man looks down, I'm like, I eat real quick and I'm like... Wait, there's rules and hashtags? I had no idea. There's just like, yeah, there's all these like... Yeah, smoke hash. You gotta wear a headset.

3:22:32SamWhat are the advantages I have? Nobody knows if I'm here or not. It's true, it's true.

3:22:39BubblemanHey, put your headphones on, Sam. Jesus.

3:22:45BubblemanNo, you know what? There's not rules. There's just like we're trying to make it better for the people listening. I mean, I myself am wearing headphones because my mic makes an echo. I didn't make the rule. It's just like I don't want to make an echo and make shitty sound for people who are trying to listen. So I guess there's direction.

3:23:05SpeakerYeah, I think it makes it even cooler too. If you leave your chair though for too long like you did it earlier, Addison probably had to go to the bathroom. Maybe he had to go number two and he got caught up. And then basically you're like, oh, you're gone, you're out of your chair. Oh, yep, ten minutes, we're off air.

3:23:21BubblemanThat was a conversation Todd and I had about Addison, Natasha, and who else?

3:23:28SpeakerSomebody else. They left their chair. They left their station. There were three ones. I had a tissue culture call that only can happen at a certain time, so I had to take the phone call, and I didn't want to be like, you know, so I wasn't sure, so I apologize.

3:23:43Etienne FontanOh, look at Addison with culture and all.

3:23:46JohnHave we come full circle? You guys are talking about anal stuff again? Well, you know.

3:23:54BubblemanWe always like to go back to the anus, John.

3:23:57SpeakerThat's where he went. He took off. He was like, I've got to go find me some beaver. I did some herb extraction out of my ass.

3:24:04Etienne FontanNo, it's now beaver anus. Yeah, beaver anal glands.

3:24:08BubblemanListen, if anyone has a bunch of beaver anal glands lying around, up to 2,500 kilos, John can do that shit in one run.

3:24:22SpeakerAnd the next time you're smoking strawberry, raspberry, or vanilla terpenes that are naturally flavored, boom, you know you're smoking beaver anal glands.

3:24:34JohnWell, it does sound, your description makes them sound very natural.

3:24:39Etienne FontanCan we change it to something more pleasant like beaver butt sauce or something like that? Ah, yes.

3:24:46BubblemanRaspberry Vanilla Extract. They just call it natural flavors. You can't get much more natural than that. How can you say a beaver's ass isn't natural?

3:25:02SpeakerThat's a true thing. It's a true thing, though. Terrible. You've kind of ruined it for me now, too, with these flavors. I think Tony just said that to make us buy more terpenes.

3:25:11BubblemanYep, it was total, total terpene agenda.

3:25:15SpeakerManipulation. Deep terpene manipulation. We were having a conversation and I was like, yeah, there's nothing, you know, they're the same molecules, so if you arrange them to make a giclee of terpenes, then, you know, I guess, I mean, what's really wrong with it? And then somebody said, well, and that was Janice was, she brought it to our attention that, did you know that these natural flavorings had this, Hey, I got a question.

3:25:41SpeakerOh, wait. What did they just say? Mark, Mark, aren't those...

3:26:09JohnHorrible smells in the secretions. Yeah.

3:26:13SpeakerThat is hilarious. Oligomers of something called spermidine, which is kind of like, yeah, these polyamines that smell really, really foul. Smells like rotten fish. So if you ever took like a bunch of fish and you made them go rotten, yeah, that's what it's going to smell like. So cadaverine is also, I think, cadaverine I believe is the C5 diamine, but there's a whole series of them. And they all smell and they smell real bad.

3:26:41SpeakerYep. Smells like bad pussy. Whoa, whoa. Jesus.

3:26:48SpeakerI've never had or smelled that.

3:26:50JohnYou poor guy.

3:26:53SpeakerYou poor guy. Speaking of pussy and cannabis, the first time I went to Amsterdam was 1999, and I had that pot of gold, I think it was a catcher, pot of gold, and I remember it, I had it the first time and I was like, this really tastes like pussy, that's what I remember.

3:27:12BubblemanThe pog, you might have got a tainted version of the pog, wasn't Rob responsible for some pog action there, Sam?

3:27:20SamNo, that's a variety I created.

3:27:23BubblemanThat was you, okay. I knew one of you two had figured that out.

3:27:27SamIt was Hindu skunk, which I just, I mean Hindu kush times skunk. I just showed you the Hindu kush.

3:27:38Etienne FontanWhat was by what? Who was the male?

3:27:41SamThe male was skunk.

3:27:45BubblemanNice. A strong, powerful male that you had collected decades prior?

3:27:50SamYeah, it was a selection of one out of 20,000. Jesus.

3:27:57BubblemanThat's awesome.

3:27:58Etienne FontanActually, only 10,000 of them were male. But who's counting?

3:28:03BubblemanHey, but out of 20,000 plants.

3:28:08SpeakerHey. That's like the Justin Bieber of plants right there. Seriously. Statistically speaking.

3:28:18SamWe're not back to beavers, are we? Yeah, no, beaver, beaver.

3:28:22SpeakerIt's beaver, beaver. I do have a serious question, though. What, I mean, because a lot of people, Tony, this kind of time, Tony could help with this question. The whole, I've always felt like milligram per penny in terms of hash, like the whole game was fucked up a long time ago, especially when, you know, like back in 07 when you went into collectives, And, you know, the first, when you first started to see, you know, super melts and other shit like this, they were priced at a price where it didn't make any sense.

3:28:55SpeakerYou were getting so many milligrams of THC, and then until testing came along, you couldn't tell that this product cost this much and there's this many milligrams of THC in it from a water hash over to a super melt at that point. What do you guys think should be the price of oil? And when the market moves forward, does the penny per milligram model seem like it makes sense on that end of the business, or what do you guys think?

3:29:23JohnAre you talking about the guys who are making the extracts? Paychecks?

3:29:30SpeakerI'm talking about raw cannabinoids for everything. Whether you're going to take crude and you're going to turn crude into distillates, you're going to take crude and you're going to convert crude. It's going to get to the point in this industry where you don't produce your crude because you can get it a lot less from somebody else. I'm wondering what people think about where they think that dollar sets in that end of the industry.

3:29:55BubblemanI think it'll have to depend entirely on how we continue or decide to change how we grow, meaning if we go agricultural and start growing by the acre and the hectare, obviously those numbers will change vastly, and that's what I think is going to happen. But if we consider what you're talking about to remain as a craft thing, that people are always going to try and make their best little grows turned into oil, turned into beautiful high quality products that maybe can't compete with the Or at least, you know, that might be the idea.

3:30:26BubblemanI know Sam might argue that of course we can compete on the agricultural level. The best can be grown as big as you want to go, which is pretty much what you believe. No, Sam?

3:30:36SamYeah, that's true as long as your number one criteria is quality, quality, quality. You guys are misunderstanding the question.

3:30:49SpeakerI was talking about the industry itself is growing, right? So it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger, which means there's much more consumption by the companies that are coming out. You know, the kids that invented a promethazine-type drink but with high THC You know, they need cannabinoids to make that drink go. For the new water-soluble companies that are producing water-soluble cannabinoids, they need cannabinoids to make that go.

3:31:13SpeakerFor the Chiba Chews out there, for everything, not the super high-end concentrate maker, because the super high-end concentrate maker is connected to something else, and that's ultra-quality of product or processing of product. Where I'm talking about mass production for these large companies, you know, what's You know, because no one's buying top grade shatter and turning it into, you know, a product necessarily. It's, it's, you kill yourself.

3:31:43SpeakerThat business model wouldn't work. So what I'm talking more about is large scale production of stuff. I mean, look at under California right now with AB266 coming. You've got everybody jumping into the green zone here or this there, and they have dreams of producing oils to make for these concentrate pens for all these different things. What I was asking was, does that sound right, one penny per milligram, or do you guys think it'll go below that?

3:32:11SpeakerDo you think that it'll get to the point where it's even below half of a penny?

3:32:17JohnListen, I'm the guy who owns the patent on doing extraction that way, and what I do in those cases is the bigger companies is I lease the patent to them, and I base it on initial cost lease, and I also ask for a percentage of what they produce, and it's a very, very small percentage. I'm guessing it's either what you're talking now or even smaller, but they're They're getting a piece of equipment that's capable of extracting 2,500 kilograms of raw material three times a day.

3:32:54JohnAnd so those numbers that you're speaking make a lot of sense. But if a guy's got a 15 or 20 pound extractor or something like that.

3:33:03SpeakerThat's not what I'm talking about.

3:33:04JohnI'm not talking about a 15 or 20 pound extractor. Well, you're talking about what I'm talking about, which is big time. Yeah. I'm talking about the future. Yeah. Well, it's not the future. I have a factory right now that will extract 2,500 kilos of whack. And it takes about three and a half hours for the cycle. And so, you know, I mean, I extract all sorts of other things there.

3:33:28JohnI mean, I extract lavender. I extract whatever.

3:33:31SpeakerWell, I mean, I live in Northern California. Yeah, so do I. Yeah, I mean, there's fucking weed everywhere, so it's, you know, it's going to be our future. I know, it's barnage here.

3:33:41SamAlso, I truly think that the future will bring an integrated system where people will grow a thousand acres outdoors, they'll dry it, Dry sift it and then the rest of it they'll either make water hash or an extract out of. And the raw materials aren't very expensive at that point after you dry sift it.

3:34:03BubblemanAnd that's why I mentioned what I mentioned because I understood the question completely. It's based on how we produce though and if you're producing it indoors where it's more expensive then obviously those numbers are going to go one way. Of course. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:34:45SpeakerI could see that happening on the agricultural side where in a few years, not saying right away, I think it's going to take a while. It could take a decade because we're much slower at it. But the people that the powers that be, those farmers that come together and link together, they're going to hold strong just like in any other industry and they're going to set a price.

3:35:08SpeakerDon't you think though that, Tony, that more people like yourself are kind of coming into it with like a not, You know, like a business sense, even ATN, you know, they're looking at it with profit margins that are acceptable to them and their investors and they're just kind of looking at making marginably acceptable profit margins. It's business. Yeah, it is. And this is what I think is going to change the dynamic of it more than, you know, Thank you so much for joining us.

3:35:57SpeakerWe'll come along and double the cost of production and say, shit, I can give you this weed for fuck, hundreds of pounds. Dude, it's like tomato prices. And we sell tomatoes at under 10 bucks a pound for the most highest quality organic tomatoes. And from what I've been told by Rob Clark and others, it is harder to get a perfect tomato to market than it is a perfect cannabis flower.

3:36:20SpeakerSo if we start looking at this on an industrial level, we may well start seeing cannabis on a very different scale.

3:36:28Etienne FontanYes, exactly. Oh, without a doubt. Without a doubt. The price is only going to come down. It's going to be cheaper. It's going to be $10 on the dollar.

3:36:34JohnTomato farmers dumping excess tomatoes in the streets, that's a common thing.

3:36:37SamIf you grow 1,000 acres outdoors...

3:36:43SamAnd you dry sift it first. You still have half the THC in the plant material to make water sift or extract. And those raw materials will cost nothing.

3:36:56SpeakerSo I think the second part to that, Addison, so first is how low will it go, right, and the accessibility to it. The second is actually, in my opinion, trend. So what I mean by trend is... Is the market calling for 70% smokers using flowers? So if the market's still calling for flowers versus, say, a concentrate or a vape pen, that's what's going to dictate it is the people and the consumption.

3:37:23SpeakerAnd then what market is that trend is? Is it trending in the medical cannabis sector or the adult use sector, or is this a component of a cannabinoid and a nutraceutical, and then Is there a component going pharmaceutical? So that trend marker will dictate what you're going to do with the raw. And then thirdly, it would be the equipment. So if it's trending a certain way, you're going to want the right equipment to be able to keep up with the competition, which it will at some point be much, you know, I think much lower than one cent a milligram.

3:37:59SpeakerYeah. Eventually. Eventually. Everything I do is off of milligrams. Two cents, four cents, six cents. It's funny. It's true because you look at what cannabinoid we're talking about because trend is what's going to call for what's next. We remember a time when people didn't know what the fuck CBD was. They had no idea. It was THC, THC, THC. At that point, they didn't even know what THCA was.

3:38:26SpeakerNever mind THCV or CBG or any of these other really rad things. So it's, you know, I think that it's, I mean, right now, what is it, fucking $25,000 for a kilo of CBD? You know, for just raw, shard, crazy-ass CBD, up to $25,000. That's a pretty good fucking market at this point. And then, I mean, that's changing the game for some of these people. So when you look at what the trend is, when you look at a thing like CBD...

3:38:55SpeakerAnd when we were talking about CBD two years ago, we weren't talking about raw, crystal, crazy looking CBD. And now that shit's just sort of changed a lot of things where, I mean, I love taking that stuff and just throwing it on the nail with some terpenes or whatever else. And it's the best high. It's one of my favorite highs. So it's just the trend kind of holds that.

3:39:16BubblemanI think in 2001 Sam showed me pure CBD, pure CBG, pure CBN, and a bunch of singular pure turkeys.

3:39:27SpeakerYeah, yeah, he had all the jars, little powders, it was pretty... We're talking about one person, not an entire market, you know, I mean that's... Sam's like a hermit that just fucking goes hard. Like crazy shit.

3:39:41BubblemanYeah. He's definitely on the ball with this stuff is all I'm saying. Generally people that if you think you're getting into something new, you should just contact Sam and he'll tell you about it from 15 or 20 years ago. Exactly.

3:39:55SpeakerI think it's really hard for us to imagine how the market's opening up because when you start seeing the confidence in Colorado and these large scale CBD production farms now that we've all seen on YouTube and such, Thank you for joining us.

3:40:27SpeakerI think the more we're just going to see that kind of thing happening because people want a quick turnaround in their investment. They're not going to sit around and wait for three or four or five or ten times the profit of the cost of production. They're just going to flip shit. Yeah, not if they want to stay in business for sure. That's correct. And that's what I think is going to be more important, longevity, because now you can set up a good staff.

3:40:47SpeakerYou can have people that work and go to, You know, and that can count on you to be in business because what you're doing is legal, and even though you're not making as much money, you're all going to grow old together. That's the trade-off I see happening here. I mean, this is the first.

3:41:02SamWe just went from a movement to an industry, so it's changing. Supply and demand, except for in a really informal way. Supply and demand and legality will mean, you know, it's a real market.

3:41:17SpeakerRight, and people will really be able to have jobs and they'll be able to really like, you know, people will be able to be trimmers for decades if they want to be, not just seasonally because there'll be always trimming going on. Some people will be into breeding. Some people will be into taking care of the greenhouse. There's going to be all elements of this that need to be filled full time in order to just make all the grass for the world.

3:41:40SpeakerLike any other industry. Like any other industry. And when you can do this, when you can passionately get into growing tomatoes legally and not having to worry about the cops sitting outside of the greenhouse, a tomato fucking shop, it's going to change everything. But profits won't be there like we know them in the 80s and under the drug war.

3:42:00JohnWell, you know what? I want to say my machine right now is capable of 2,500 pounds, 2,500 kilos per whack. But I hope that's my small machine. I'm hoping to look forward to 10,000 and 20,000 kilo extraction units. And that's when we start talking about these really, really tiny returns on it. But instead, looking at the bigger picture.

3:42:25BubblemanHey, John, so if you're getting, say, you have a 600 gallon chamber for catching the oil in that 2,500 kilo?

3:42:36JohnYeah, well, it holds 600 gallons.

3:42:40JohnImperial Gallons, the Catch Chamber does.

3:42:44BubblemanSo what would a 10,000 to a 20,000?

3:42:49JohnWell, you have to look at the ratios again of what it is you're looking to extract. At the time when I built that, we were mostly looking at corn oil, and we decided what the maximum yield of the corn oil, which was, I think at the time, around 36%. That's what the hexane guys told us. Turned out it was actually 52 when we did it. But you have to look at it like that.

3:43:15JohnIf you've got 10,000 kilos, you can figure whatever the thing is, it's got to be at least a third or 40% of the size of the top chamber. You've got to remember, you have to recover in that chamber. And so because of the way my patent runs, I use the extraction gas to offset the The heat problem that you run into when you're trying to recover from that pot down below and it runs into hours and fucking days of trying to purge it that way.

3:43:48JohnI just use the gas directly from the extraction right off the head to a jacket that heats the whole thing up to that temperature. And the recovery goes quick. It's a couple of hour long process from the time you start the extraction to the time you're opening the chamber up and getting the material out.

3:44:10JohnWell, it's a worldwide patent, and I've had it for a number of years. I lease it to Roberta and Grass France and a lot of other big companies around the world use it. And Mark and I are getting ready to fire up something using it. I'm definitely going to start, I've been talking with my guy who makes the equipment, and we're gearing up to offer Jacket It, Computer controlled extraction units from small size all the way up to larger size.

3:44:43JohnAnd since these will also come with a license to operate the patent, they'll actually be the legal ways to do it. And we are going to come down on the big guys about the patent because they have no choice but to bow under and include me.

3:45:00SamI have a question for you. Is it a closed loop system? Do you recover the gas?

3:45:08JohnYeah, the system never needs gas again. Okay, great.

3:45:14SamI get it.

3:45:15JohnOkay. And we're so confident of that that when we sell it, it'll come with its lifetime supply of gas and if you run out or something happens, we'll replace that for you at the same time. So we're going to make from what I call the desktop system, which everybody had a good laugh about last week,

3:45:38SamWhich I thought was rather... My wife wants a kitchen system, please.

3:45:42JohnWell, yeah, you know what? And in the last week, I was talking with one of my Swiss partners, and he brought that very idea forth that we would make a small kitchen top system that you would just put whatever in and bang, have your material there. Those look like... Cabinets in another country, but you live in Northern California, huh? I just remember having cabinets like that in Switzerland.

3:46:08JohnBut yeah, we've got that in the plan to make a desktop system where you just push one button and pull a little tray out on the bottom and there's your oil, whatever it was, cinnamon or coffee beans or...

3:46:22BubblemanI would like to potentially see one day your 2,300 different extracted... Things that you've done. That's like, I've mentioned it before, that's like a museum of extraction right there.

3:46:34JohnDo you remember when I was talking to you when I was sitting in Kansas and you were across the border? Yes. Okay. Well, that's where it's at. So you're going to have to get not only permission to get in the state, you're going to have to get by those fucking assholes in Kansas before they let you in the state, no doubt.

3:46:51SpeakerMark, I grew up there for 10 years plus of my life, so I'll get you through Kansas once you make it across that border.

3:46:58BubblemanOh, nice. Tony's my Kansas coyote.

3:47:02JohnGood. I hate it going, I hate going there. I mean, to me it's like going to Mordor and without a good reason. Absolutely, 100% accurate.

3:47:14SamJohn, do you have a database of the collection?

3:47:18JohnSay again?

3:47:20SamDo you have a database of the collection?

3:47:28JohnWell, sort of. I probably have 16, I think, little databases because it was done over a period of years and a period of different operating systems. And so, yeah, I've been meaning to compile it and If I can get around to compiling it before I kick the bucket, I'll give out copies of it that people could look through. It's mostly six-ounce bottles, and in some bottles it's as much as 18 ounces, and it depended on the amount of room that was available in this particular freezer, which costs a lot of money in the first place to store these.

3:48:12JohnAnd they're archival sources. These are the stores of extractions that we made over those years is what they are basically.

3:48:22BubblemanYeah, I must have to keep those nice and cold.

3:48:27SamWhat temperature do you keep them at?

3:48:30JohnIt's in an ammonia based system so they're frozen very, very, very hard. They're below 100 degrees below zero.

3:48:39SamYep, I've had pollen frozen for about 25 years, but only at minus 30, but it's still viable.

3:48:49JohnYeah, I think after a certain point in time, if there is a time machine, it's probably freezing things.

3:48:57Etienne FontanRight. Hey, everybody. I love you all, and I appreciate it greatly, but it's my birthday, and I'm just going to go off and do my birthday thing.

3:49:04JohnHey, happy birthday, man. Happy birthday, ATN. One last birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Ethan. Happy birthday to you.

3:49:17Etienne FontanThank you very much, Andrew. And many more. Hip, hip, hooray. Raise them up, ladies and gentlemen. Here we go. Cheers.

3:49:40BubblemanThank you, Tony. Want to come have a dab, Todd?

3:50:07Etienne FontanHumbled and honored as always. Love you guys. I'll see you all next weekend.

3:50:11SpeakerHappy birthday, ATN.

3:50:12Etienne FontanThank you.

3:50:13BubblemanThanks for all you do. I am also going to be calling it a day here with all the Hash Churchers. Had a nice friend show up. We're going to hang out and do some dabs. Thank you everyone for watching. Sorry if I have a little bit of a sound loop going. I unplugged my headphones. Wanted to just do this sans phones. Thanks, Addy, for showing up. Skunk Man Sam, Indra, as always, Mark Scaldone, Todd McCormick, Tony Verzura, with Michael Manning and Fletcher from earlier, as well as anyone else I may have missed, Dr. Natasha Rize.

3:50:48BubblemanAll right. Thanks, everybody. Hashtag 101 is over. We'll see you next week for Hashtag 102. Peace out.