Cannabis in History and Culture

0:02BubblemanHey everybody! Welcome, welcome, welcome to Hash Church episode 114. I am going to send out the invitations as I do each week through email, through Skype, through Facebook, and through Messenger. All of the options that I... Here we go, new message. There's everyone right there. All right. I am sorry to announce early this morning that Rob Clark will not be able to be making it for his presentation.

0:32BubblemanHe feels terrible. There was a death. A close friend of his passed away and they are going to awake. So we send all of our positive vibrations Rob and his friends in Turkey. We're sorry to hear that. We really were looking forward to seeing Rob do a presentation this morning, but he's going to try and make it next week for that presentation. And we're still going to have Zach come in a little later on here today or earlier.

0:58BubblemanWe'll see when he decides to come in. But in the meantime, I definitely want to welcome Johnny B, and Skunk Man Sam, and Etienne, and Indra to the room, as well as the 299 viewers that have made their way onto the live feed already at 9.01. That's pretty impressive. I'm impressed with you, 333. Welcome, Todd. How are you doing this morning? Good morning, Mike. I'm doing great.

1:28BubblemanYes, I'm going to put my headphones on right now. It's always my fault.

1:33Etienne FontanIt's all your echolocation, Todd. How dare you? Well, letting everybody know where I am. Good morning. How are you? Oh, you know, just done again.

1:42SpeakerOh, no. Oh, I missed you, Bob. That's really great. Thank you for pause smoking.

1:47Etienne FontanYeah, this is the old press, Bob. If people don't know, Prez Bob Kundert did the thank you for pot smoking way back when we were early activists. Yep, in the 70s. And this was how he raised awareness was this thank you for pot smoking stickers. I am not a criminal. Yep, you're not a criminal at all, especially now. You're legal. Now we are legal. Hey, Chris, how are you down there?

2:10SpeakerGood, man. How are you doing, Todd?

2:12Etienne FontanWhat's up, brother? I think he's up there, Todd.

2:14SpeakerYeah, he is, technically. It was me focusing on the bottom part of the screen. We're all going to be together soon in Cascadia, brothers. Cascadia. There we go.

2:23BubblemanHey, welcome, Chris.

2:25SpeakerNice to see you this morning. Yeah, I heard you were having Rob on. I figured I better check out what Rob's been up to.

2:30BubblemanWell, you know, I just announced, unfortunately, and it's crazy because every time I announce someone, Rob, unfortunately, is not making it today. He had to cancel. There was a serious situation. Someone passed away and there's a wake happening. And so he's going to come back, I hope. Next week and rock his presentation because yeah, I was really looking forward to it as well. He had a whole slideshow of photos and I'm not going to give up what he was going to be going into but it's definitely worth checking out something new from Mr.

3:04BubblemanRob Clark. Cool.

3:08SpeakerAnd in the meantime, I guess you and I, Chris, we'll just cruise back to bed. We'll catch this a little later. There you go. I say we make Chris give a two hour presentation on the history of cannabis for religious, sacramental, etc. uses. Well, you know, I am working on a new book. What's it called? It's called Libra 420, Cannabis Arcanum, and it's about the occult. I found a bunch of really interesting references and old magical grimoires like the 11th century book, The Picatrix, and 16th century English grimoires like Sefer Raziel and the Book of Magic and Invocation.

3:53SpeakerThese are like from, say, 1585 or so, those ones. Have recipes for cannabis ointments actually used in mirror scrying. The magic for that might be that they were using... Alchemical stuff, Rabelais, different people like that, and then into the 19th century, early 20th century, with people like Crowley and a whole whack of these French occultists were really into cannabis. I'd say the, you know, there would never have been an occult scene without cannabis.

4:24SpeakerIt was just so pervasive in Europe among these occultists. I think the magic involved with it was they were using European hemp varieties with little or no THC. Oh, well, you know, I don't think that's necessarily true that they were using European hemp varieties. There was a lot of trade going on. Apothecaries were carrying all sorts of rare herbs. And we have firsthand accounts from people like Robert Hook, a contemporary of Newton, where he's discussing it.

4:56SpeakerAcquiring such substances from the East and experimenting with them. Gave a presentation to the Royal Society in England. What year was that? What year was that, Chris? Robert Hooke, I guess that was like 1600 sometime. So were they blending the cannabis with other things, I take it, then? Some things that were blending the cannabis with other things. Such as? Books like Sefer Raziel. It was mixed with Artesia, which is wormwood, and the Book of Magic.

5:30SpeakerThey refer to a herb called Archangel, which I think is Brumantia, but I'm not absolutely sure. It's not... It doesn't go by that name, but it's also called Angel's Trumpet or Devil's Trumpet, so I'm thinking it's probably, which is quite a powerful nightshade, you know, so it would be fairly potent. And not just cannabis as well, you know, there's recipes for all sorts of stuff for opium, all sorts of nightshades, mandrake, m-bane, all that type of stuff, pretty pervasive, and often used in conjunction with cannabis.

6:01SpeakerAnd I think that there was a lot of confusion there when they first came across cannabis in the East because, like Sandy Sam was saying, the hemp in Europe was so poor that they weren't even sure if it was the same thing exactly, you know? It took a little while to kind of figure out what the difference was. They didn't really understand it at first. And so that probably led to... Well, as soon as they actually tried it, they would know the difference really fast.

6:29SpeakerWell, yeah, they knew there was a difference, but they didn't know why. You know what I mean? Is it the same plant or is it a different plant altogether? Some of them seemed to think it was a totally different thing. Do you think some of those things could have been called Soma? Well, Soma is like, you know, that's much older and it had already been long gone by that time.

6:49SpeakerSo, no, but later on, 19th century occultists were taking cannabis as Soma. And referring to it as Soma. Now they may have just, you know, guessed on that. They may not have any real historical reason for it. But I do think the myths of the Grail are based on the cups that Soma were drank in were called the Graha, which is very etymologically similar to Grail. A lot of people have written about the influence coming in via Persia with a helmet and stuff.

7:23SpeakerInfluencing the Grail legend. And we have those Scythian cups, those gold cups and bowls that were used for drinking cannabis and opium preparations, which as Sadhu Sam educated me, the archaeologist Anton Gass, Uh, uh, said was used for drinking Haoma. And, uh, uh, Scott Littleton, uh, late professor of anthropology, he wrote a book about the Scythian influence on the Grail mythology that's quite interesting, uh, talking about the Scythian sacred cups.

7:54SpeakerAnd so here we have an example of the Scythian sacred cups and then contained cannabis and opium, which is similar to what, uh, Serianatti suggested for, for Haoma Soma, uh, in the Bactria Margiana archaeological complex. Now, I read recently where they found some remnants of Soma in various either drinking or spoons or containers, and it simply boiled down to cannabis, opium, and alcohol. Ephedrine, our plant that produced a speed like thing.

8:29SpeakerSo basically it was a speedball with pot. And back in those days, of course, Soma, you know, I mean, it was the best thing in the world because that's all they had. And that goes back to Serianatti's archaeological finds and the Bactria Margiana Archaeological Complex, which is out in Afghanistan. And it's a 4,000-year-old temple, and half the temple was dedicated to a sacred beverage. There's been some debate about Serianatti's claims.

9:00SpeakerPeople weren't able to reproduce the find of cannabis and stuff in there from segments, and he says those segments they used to study had been exposed to the sun, and it had all been ruined. So there's been debate about that, but then strengthening it is this find of Scythian cups, because the Scythians... We're deeply involved with trade in that area and part of that whole cultural complex.

9:24SpeakerAnd then we have this find, more recent find of cannabis and opium. And I suspect if they had looked further in those gold cuffs, they would have found ephedra. But, you know, that's not proof. That's just a thought, you know. So a lot of amazing discoveries that have been, like all things that bespeak the real truth, have been covered up by the people who produce history or tell us what was going on in history, archaeologists, historians, because they want to stick to a certain timeline and they want to stick to a certain amount of knowledge that's been uncovered.

10:01SpeakerYou know, I don't know how much of it's intentional and how much of it is like trade routes get blocked, things change, get cut off of supply, things get forgot, and then people come along and they don't know anything about it. And also, I think that, you know, like... For instance, in a number of these grimoires, cannabis is referred to by name and opium is referred to by name, but the more recent publishers of these texts, they don't even make any relevance of it.

10:28SpeakerThey've got commentary throughout the book all about the text, and they just kind of glide right over these drug references, and it's probably because they don't use drugs themselves. They don't really realize the implications that psychoactive substances have. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

11:12SpeakerPeople are conquered. Their history is buried. Their culture is buried. Their use of certain sacraments buried. And then the bigotry of the conquerors steps in to cloud the reality. And how do you as a researcher get through that? You know, do you look for common threads? Well, you know, I'm not like an academic. I'm not, you know, university trained or anything like that. So I just kind of started on my own thing and I collected academic references that were around, you know what I mean?

11:40SpeakerSo I was able to find quite a few. But I know that like Professor Carl Rock, Dr. David Hillman, I questioned him about this and Hillman wrote a great PhD thesis that was almost refused because he had included references to drugs in Agent Grease and the guys were just not having it. The board that was doing his thesis were just not having it. They were like, no, you got to pull all this stuff out or you're going to fail.

12:08SpeakerA lot of people don't realize that Dr. Lester Grinspoon, after he wrote Marijuana Reconsidered, wrote a really great book called Psychedelics Reconsidered that really fell on deaf ears because the cannabis was kind of the third rail, but then coming along and saying that some psychedelics could not only be helpful but beneficial to society was like creating a rail That no one ever wanted to walk down. And, you know, he caught a lot of shit for it.

12:38SpeakerBut I think he was still, 40 years ago, more correct than we are now with his prophecies and psychedelics. One thing that can't be denied is the recent, well, recent and for the last 50, 60 years, they keep finding more and more of these frozen Synthian or Synthian offshoot prophecies. Graves where they're finding cannabis. Absolutely. The one that Rob had his name on recently that was published.

13:09SpeakerI mean, there was, what was it? Several kilos of cannabis found, including, you know, covering the entire grave site. Yeah, well, that one with flowers is particularly interesting because it shows that they were growing that in that area. And that's kind of where I kind of, I believe that the whole Indica thing really started is up in the Tiananmen Mountains there in that region of China, you know, and then connects into the Hindi Kush.

13:36SpeakerThose guys were involved with trade, you know, like when they found that first shaman that was with that 2,700-year-old cannabis, the cowrie shells on his hat were from India. And they tested DNA from those guys, and they have DNA from Eastern and Western Europe and stuff like that. And then, you know, like this... The archaeological evidence in Europe keeps getting bigger as well. We know the Scythians were deep into Europe.

14:02SpeakerScythians are an amazing culture because they were like early horse riders. They were very nomadic and they were all the way over to the Mideast, Persia, places like that, up into Europe, throughout continental Europe, and then up into China. Those Chinese mummies are basically an offshoot of Scythian culture. They're finding white guys with red hair. Yeah, and plaid, you know, they're wearing plaid, plaid garland. Exactly. Well, the beauty of them constantly trying to bury history is it's seeds and it keeps coming up again and again.

14:38SpeakerHa ha. I don't think they're trying to bury it as much as they have to find it. They have to dig it up and think about it. Well, I think what John's saying is absolutely true that they buried it because the people that came along had no interest in propagating the culture of the people they conquered. So they weren't going to come in and be the marketing group for the people they just slaughtered.

15:04SpeakerYou know, there was that great paper this last year about the Yamana culture, which is another Indo-European culture, and saying, you know, basically the founders of Western civilization were pot dealers. And it was in Agricultural Journal. I forgot the name of the actual, I think Sam posted the actual essay at some point, but It's caused a whole rash of news articles like founders of Western civilization with dope dealers and the first cash crop and all stuff like this.

15:33SpeakerBut, you know, there's some basis for that, man. You know, those guys put that paper together, serious anthropologists and archaeologists and stuff, and they had just a whack of archaeological finds regarding cannabis in Europe. You can be sure that early people found everything there was to find that would make you feel good or have you some euphoric feeling. It's only been since Christianity and those Thank you for joining us.

16:19SpeakerAnd they think it's bad because it made you turn around and see yourself. And the last thing that any church wants is for their people to suddenly get realized and turn around and see themselves when they're setting up a hierarchy where you have to go through the middleman who has the donation tray up at the top of the church and who's constantly telling you what an asshole and how bad you are.

16:41SpeakerAnd making your only path to heaven through him. And so that's what's been going on. The previous years before that, it was always looked at as a sacrament.

16:52Etienne FontanIt's all about cultural control. It has been for generations. As Todd says, it goes back to those who the history is written by the victors. And what's fascinating is, yes, even in stake of all that, but they still are uncovering grave after grave fighting this cannabis. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if They were older findings and that people who are archaeologists didn't know what they were dealing with.

17:14Etienne FontanJust toss these weeds inside as just simple rags or weed, et cetera, et cetera.

17:18SpeakerSpecial conditions for like, you know, stuff like that to be preserved. You know what I mean? Right. It has to survive.

17:24Etienne FontanAnd you're talking about these in, you know, to be frozen.

17:28SpeakerCan I ask, though, you know, was there a cultural shift, I mean, in the 20th century, where there was actually a movement to discredit cannabis, mid-20th century, that wasn't really around in the 19th century, where the explorers from Britain going to Egypt looking to disqualify cannabis finds in Egypt, or were they just happy to find them?

17:49Etienne FontanNapoleon outlawed it, correct?

17:51SpeakerNapoleon has Shishun in Egypt. There's references. If you look into books like on ancient Assyria and you dig really deep or ancient Egypt, sometimes the stuff comes up. You know what I mean? But the thing is, is these people weren't heads. So they don't really, it's not something they really explore deeper. They might mention it in passing. You know what I mean? Oh, you know, cannabis was used as an incentive in Assyria.

18:15SpeakerWe have these Assyrian references. That's about it. But they weren't heads, but they weren't. They weren't bigots against it either, though, is what I think my point is. Well, you know, culturally, you know, even in the 19th century, for the most part, you know, people using cannabis and opium, late 19th century, early 20th century, wasn't illegal, but it was still kind of frowned upon culturally, you know what I mean?

18:34SpeakerWas it viewed more as an industrial resource at that point, just another rope or supply of cannabis? I mean, everyone back then had to know what heavy cannabis was or What ropes were or paints and varnishes were? I mean, didn't it play a significantly different culture role? Well, you know, like it was like a major medicine. You know what I mean? The most popular cough medicine, PISOs, had cannabis in it.

18:57SpeakerBut people took it under this idea of this is a medicine and I'm feeling better. And I'm not necessarily feeling stoned. The effect we call getting stoned, that's the medicine coming on and working. Oh, I can feel the medicine working. That's exactly what they do. That has a huge intent with cannabis, has a huge effect. You know what I mean? A Sadhu in India partaking of Shiva with ganja before sitting down with his asanas.

19:23SpeakerHe's smoking something different than a kid in Brooklyn sitting down at Xbox and blasting a blunt. You know what I mean? Just because of the intent. That's the huge difference that they intend on forcing on you from two different angles using doublespeak. The fact that it can make you better is one thing, but if it made you feel better, that's a whole nother ballgame. And that's what they want to get a handle on.

19:51SpeakerThat feeling better shit is not allowed. Can I tell you a weird thing, John? You bring up because when I was in 79 was when I started going through pot use with chemotherapy with my mom. And it was okay if it stopped my nausea. But if it made me giddy and happy and like feeling high, that was the problem.

20:16SpeakerWell, that's because we've been pounded into our heads for years that there are some things that are good and some things that are bad. And if you buy into that and you own it, you will absolutely fucking have to live that way. Unless you turn your head around and take a good look inside and realize that the arbiter of good and bad lives within your heart, then you won't be affected by any of this bullshit and you will be dabbing away.

20:46SpeakerJohn, if you look at the Indian Hemp Commission report, which was published in 1894 or three, I'm not sure, the British were quite open to intoxication from cannabis. They felt it was not harmful and it gave a lot of solace to the poor and ill. And that's why they believed in taxing and regulating it and allowing the trade to exist. I don't know if that's exactly true.

21:15SpeakerI love that report. It is positive. But there's another book, Cannabis, Colonialism, and Madness. And both with Hindus and Muslims, where a lot of cannabis use was taking place, they had a real hard time bringing the factors of the Islamic tradition and the sad views of the Hindu tradition around to their way of thinking. And they couldn't just attack it. The big thing was that cannabis was used religiously.

21:40SpeakerYou could push people so far, but once you start fucking with their religion, then stuff can really go south pretty quick. And so they came up with the idea that cannabis was making people crazy, and these holy people, where formerly their madness was considered kind of a divine madness, were insane. And the insanity was coming from the cannabis, which would prevalent be used by these. But before that, these figures were, although Penny List were figures of deep respect in their communities, considered like wise men and stuff like that.

22:13SpeakerAnd it's a great book, Cannabis, Colonialism, and Madness, and it really shows that. You know, the British Raj, that people- Have you read the second volume, Chris? Have you read the second volume? Cannabis, Colonialism, and Madness.

22:28SpeakerA wonderful book, yeah, really lots of great- Have you read the second volume? No, I haven't. I didn't know there was a second volume. Oh, yeah. No, he's got a second volume out. Oh, I'll be ordering that as soon as the show's over today and finding that one. That's a great book. Another book on factors like that that goes into some of that same stuff, but I can't recall the title of it.

22:50SpeakerWhat I like about the Indian Hemp Commission report is they went out and they interviewed people. The people who grew it, the people who sold it, the people who smoked it, for religious people, medical people, they interviewed thousands of people. And the end conclusion was, yeah, this is not a serious problem. Still the best thing written on Hindu use of cannabis, I think, Campbell's 1894 on the religion of hemp in the Indian Hemp Drug Report.

23:23SpeakerStill the best, you know, it's just chock full of stuff. Hey Chris, have you ever seen the pictures of Lord Shiva that are from the ancient times and some of the very ancient carvings? I spent 13 years in India and I've been to a couple of Shiva temples and the very first thing I noticed on the statue was there was a pot leaf on his belt, number one, and he had two seeds for earrings on Cool.

23:54SpeakerAnd this was a carving that had been there since, I don't know, 1100 or something like this. And where did they get it? The ancient people only did things they saw.

24:08SpeakerThey weren't really thinking way ahead in the future because they were too busy living in there now. The Dravidians brought cannabis down and the Aryans brought cannabis down on the other side of the Himalayas when they came down to both Kashmir and to Persia. Absolutely. Well, there's a ton of Internet research on the white folks coming over the mountains to India and bringing everything because the Indians themselves are extremely intelligent race.

24:45SpeakerI was there for a number of years. I met guys who worked the tourist buses who could speak 10 languages fluently and never fucking graduated from high school. I met a... I met some guys there who were math geniuses. Look, my son Benny grew up around these two Indian guys who are taught at the school in North India, and they were mathematicians. And when I got back to the States and entered Benny into school, the first thing they did was they started testing him.

25:21SpeakerAnd in the ninth grade, they wanted to put him in a calculus class because he was so advanced. And he picked that all up from these guys in India. And all my kids learned to speak multiple languages because of their friends and the people we were around in India. And when you start early with a language, you can learn a language. And I brought them all there with me.

25:42SpeakerYou've got to remember that there was only two cultures that originally came up with the concept of zero, the Mayans and the Hindus. Yeah, that's big right there for sure. I would say... I spent a lot of time in India, you know, and even taking around... No written language. So how did they come up with Xero?

26:01BubblemanI'll tell you one thing, the guy that I was hanging out with at the Maha Kumbha Mela, this Sadhu from Pashupati, he spoke at least in the high 40s languages and it was sitting on the Ganges during the Maha Kumbha Mela and he would look at people as he was sitting under his tree and he would recognize a Vietnamese guy and speak Vietnamese to him and he would recognize Thank you for joining us.

26:52BubblemanOr going to become like the helper of a sadhu, like make his tea and cook his food and do all these different things, and that's how he got into the culture. But what an amazing man to hang out with. It was only a couple weeks, but he definitely was an unforgettable soul.

27:08SpeakerAnd you think, he started out as a bum who was stealing things, but karma led him down the path and gave him full... Thank you for joining us.

27:32SpeakerThese guys could take the other language that I did speak, which is Okinawan, because I grew up in Okinawa, and they spoke it so much better than me and so much more eloquently than me, and I grew right up with it. And so you run into these people. There's been some studies at the university in North India that once the right amount of language is occupying in the various place in your brain where languages come from, that you can learn all languages easily after that.

28:03SpeakerDon't feel bad, Indra, because I'm sure they were lousy at gas extraction of...

28:13BubblemanThere you go. Yeah, we're all good at something. I like that.

28:18SpeakerYes, I didn't ask him about that. But, you know, I was going to say, I guess Camara didn't come on today, but if you run across him, besides the hemp extraction he was talking about in Morocco, the other thing is that this argan oil, or argin, or argan, I'm not sure how exactly you pronounce it, but they use it in a lot of cosmetics products. And I saw on National Geographic special that, you know, they crushed the nut up and they put it in a cloth and squeeze it by turning a stick to squeeze it down as a method of getting their yield.

28:56SpeakerAnd they're getting a tremendous yield. But imagine if they had one of these machines there, which could actually expect these nuts that are very, very extraordinarily. Yeah, Mark. Climb the trees and eat the nuts and shit them out, right? Well, they actually started bypassing that because they realized it doesn't matter if the goat shitted it out because the inner part of the seed never gets subjected to any chemicals from the goat's gut.

29:29SpeakerYou know, it's not like the emus in Australia where they have to eat their seeds and shit them out before they'll grow, which is a whole different thing. Yeah, I just had this vision of this army of goats going through this orchard, eating these seeds and shitting out the nuts with your extractor in tow, following the goats. Coffee was discovered in Ethiopia by goat herders observing goats climbing on coffee trees and eating the nuts, eating the coffee beans and acting peculiar.

30:11SpeakerSo would goat milk be psychoactive if goats went into a pot field and ate all the pot? Would they produce psychoactive milk? Would the cannabinoids follow through on that? No, I think they'd still be in the acid form. That would be the first hash, wouldn't it?

30:30BubblemanThe first hash. What is the first hash? What came first, the seed or the hash?

30:35SpeakerWell, I'm sure some goats ate a bunch of pot and then took a crap and it got caught on fire and, you know, the rest is history. I think the first hash was probably made when people were collecting the seeds for nutritional purposes and their hands got covered with the resin and they either scraped it off or ate it or something and bingo bingo.

30:59BubblemanI love that Sam has spent time thinking about that.

31:02SpeakerOf all people to say the truth, last person I expected to say the truth was you, Sam, about that. No problem. I accidentally say the truth occasionally. There's Assyrian references. Ethan Russo has written about cannabis being sifted, which sounds like it was for trichome separation. So that's probably about 2,500, 2,600 years ago. Not to say there wasn't earlier stuff, but there wasn't a real understanding of it.

31:35SpeakerA lot of the later Zoroastrian references to mang, I think, refer to some sort of cannabis extract as well. But generally, you know, Rob put forth, I think... What the Persians also did was they would first either sift it or at least break it up into small particles so it was much more resin rich. And then they would make extracts with like sesame oil and things like this.

32:02SpeakerAnd then they made very active oil extracts. You know, they also put it in wine a lot. Recently, I came across another translation of Omar Khayyam's, the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, not the famous Fitzgerald one, but this one by this other guy, McCarthy, written in 1889. And it's interesting because this is a lot earlier than most people place hashish, and he was a contemporary of Hassan-i-Sabah, apparently they went to school together.

32:35SpeakerAnd we're lifelong friends. And he's got these hashish core trains here. I'll read a couple of them. What is this, Chris? This was like ruby out of Omar Khayyam, so like 11th century version. So that's pre-smoking. Pre-smoking, yeah, long pre-smoking. Art thou full of heaviness? Take thou a morsel of hashish as large as a grain of barley. Or drink but a small measure of rose-colored wine. Thou art become a sage truly.

33:05SpeakerThou mayest not drink this. Thou takest not that. Nothing is left to thee but to go eat pebbles. Go eat pebbles then. And here's another one. Whenever the green earth we are affected by joy like unto the green steed of the sky, then with green youth I eat green hashish on the green sward until I lie below the green of the earth. O thou quintessence of the sum existence, cease a moment to think upon evil again.

33:33SpeakerTake one cup of wine from the eternal sake and set thyself free from the cares of both worlds. And then this one's particularly interesting because he talks specifically about placing hashish into wine. Also, too, what they're doing is they're calling it green. This is really, really common in Egypt, in Istanbul, and other areas back in more than 1,000 years ago. The reason was because they weren't making pure, pure dry sift resin or anything else.

34:07BubblemanNo Skunk Man Sams, no Indras, no Bubble Man.

34:10SpeakerThey were making ground up. Thank you for watching.

34:36SpeakerCrazy. Here, I'll read this last one. I will therefore place this hashish in my cup of wine, and thus I will strangle the serpent of my grief. The drinker alone can understand the language of the rose and the vine, and not the faint-hearted and the cheap of wit. So, like, it's interesting because he's, like, using the euphemism of a rose as well there for cannabis, which comes up a lot in the occult world as well.

34:59SpeakerWell, I feel bad for them with their green hash, I'll tell you that much. There you go. Sticky, icky. Well, they did make hash by oil by putting it in water, boiling it, and then collecting the drops of oil on top of the water. Well, I can tell you this. If I was alive at another time during history, any time, wherever it was, I had something to do with pot and hash.

35:21SpeakerI can guarantee you that because I started at a very early age, at 17, in combat. And it's been my best friend ever since. And I just, you know, I've taken the world on stoned completely. I've written patents. I've been successful. I've had a couple of three careers that I completed successfully. And all done on hash. My wife earned her degrees on hash. The kids were all born.

35:52SpeakerAnd my wife, I used to call her Smokestack Lightning was my nickname for her because she could smoke anybody under the table. And there's been no, I've been more worried about Agent Orange coming out of my body somehow in a tiny little sperm and going into her body and producing a kid. But the kids are all brilliant. They're all up on their own. So I don't know what to say about that except for I know I have Agent Orange.

36:23SpeakerIt's working as a preservative in my body. I say ball rips it out because Darren's not here.

36:30BubblemanI'm talking to him right now. He's like, you forgot to send me the link. I'm like, no, I didn't. I sent it to your other account. He's like, I checked both. So now I photographed at 9 a.m. with his name on the link that it got sent to him. And he's like, nope. Who is this? B420K, Bong Rip. Bong Rip.

36:52SpeakerSo I just had to call that because Hash has kept me alive just like you, Joe. Cheers.

37:00BubblemanCheers. Well, I appreciate it as well. I'm not sure that I was, you know, doing something with it in my former life. I'm not even sure I had a former life, but I like to think like Indra, that if I did have a former life, as well as most of you on this panel, it would not come to a great surprise to me to think that most of you guys were somewhere along the lines of history involved in this wonderful, beautiful plant.

37:24BubblemanBecause...

37:26SpeakerYou know I don't really believe that I had a former life, but I can tell you when I was about 17 and somebody had given me a couple kilos of remnants of a dozen kilos, and I cleaned it all to try to... Salvage like an ounce of pot from all of the stems and seeds and plastic bags and boxes and everything else. And while I did that, sitting down, just, you know, grinding it up and doing whatever I was doing, I had this deja vu like, man, I've been doing this for thousands of years.

38:05SpeakerNow, I don't believe in reincarnation at all, but I did have that feeling. Well, you know, even DNA, man, you know? It's in our intestines. It's in all of our DNAs. That's what all those damn cannabinoid receptors positioned everywhere around our body where they might be useful are. They're there because from the first monkey that jumped out of the tree, he jumped out onto a cannabis plant and smelled it and probably munched some of it.

38:37SpeakerAnd ever since then... It's been part of us. And these guys trying to talk us out of that and telling us we need more research, I just want to, if I had them in front of me and they said that, I'd slap them really hard and say, what do you think? Did that work or do we need more research on slapping the shit out of you?

38:57Etienne FontanWell, I always just said it was a master regulator. It helped with all of my conditions.

39:02SpeakerAnd I just... I would be shocked and surprised if the CB receptors did not develop in animals before cannabis even existed. So I'm not sure there's a direct relationship. Well, I think everything began all at once. So that's just a different way of looking at it, you know. This whole earth started, everything was present from day one. And besides that, you don't believe in evolution, John?

39:39SpeakerEvolution, I think it's a symptom of somebody looking at the earth from a not very, uh, Lid up viewpoint from a corner and deciding that that's what happened. It's called evolution, survival of the fittest. No, I don't believe in it. I don't think that's what happened at all. I'm not related to monkeys. I do believe in it, but I don't feel bad because I don't believe in reincarnation.

40:07SpeakerI hope you don't feel bad either.

40:09BubblemanIf we're all supposed to be from monkeys, why the fuck are there still monkeys?

40:14SpeakerWe're not, that's a fallacy. Monkeys came, we came from similar ancestors. Right. So glad you said that, Chris. Thank you. Thank you. I'm kind of in between Indra and Sam on this one. I think we kind of had a co-evolution, you know what I mean? Where were Neanderthal people came around, then they were gone. I mean, they still have small amounts of genetic material in Homo sapiens, and also now they found a third species that was around at the same time in the Far East.

40:47SpeakerWell, but they also recently found evidence of human existence 380,000 years ago. Oops.

40:58SpeakerWho are those guys? Look, this earth turns again and again. Everything goes under the ground. Everything gets covered up. Landslides, water. It's all set up that way because this is school. We're not going to be here long. Everybody does what they get to do here to come to understand themselves or not. And it turns everything over again. There's stuff that's buried out in the middle of the ocean that we haven't gotten to.

41:23SpeakerWe may not get to because technology is not at that point yet. But this planet has been here since infinity and that's how long it's going to be here and that's how long this school will be open. We keep descending into these dense forms of bodies to have the experiences we want here and that's what's happening. Nothing more, nothing less. It's just one of the levels of existence.

41:46SpeakerSam says he doesn't believe in reincarnation but I bet he wouldn't be a bit surprised or disappointed After he passed out of this body to find himself on another plane of existence. You, I think, have a need for that. I don't. Yeah, I follow Sam on that, you know.

42:06BubblemanBut listen to what Indra said. He says, I don't think he would be disappointed. You know, whether you believe in it or not is really not the question. What the statement was was that if it occurred, you're probably not going to be disappointed that your belief system was wrong.

42:22SpeakerI heard what Sam said, though, which is I don't feel a need for that anymore. Of course, which is fine, which is fine. It's like, I think it's attachment, you know what I mean? It's like freaky to think about yourself ending, and that's where a lot of these religious ideas come from, but really it's all consciousness. You could have been taught to be anybody. You're born, you're not like aware and reflective.

42:43SpeakerYou've got to be taught to be somebody. Who are you? How old are you? And you start to identify with that experience. But that experience is always changing. The ideas you have now are probably different than the ideas you had 10 years ago. Even your physical body, every seven years, every cell in your body has replaced itself. Same thing with consciousness. And it's just consciousness. We're all the consciousness.

43:02SpeakerWe're all Shiva consciousness. And we take on these roles in order to discover ourselves. We're the universe examining itself and discovering itself. But that doesn't mean that has permanence. We'll see you next time.

43:26Etienne FontanI came from the void. I'm going back to the void. I don't play.

43:30SpeakerIt's a game. It's not a serious thing. It's a game that we play. We've been playing it. We're eternal beings having a human experience. And we like those experiences. And so we have them over and over again. We've been doing it since the beginning. We've been doing it since eternity. There is no beginning and there's no end. We come to the bodies so that we can express learning in a way that is not congruent when you're in your light self.

43:58SpeakerWhen you're your light self, you cannot learn some of the dense experiences. And so we keep coming here to have them because it's a lot of fun. It's a game we're playing. And what's wrong with that? Old souls and new souls, as we say, John. You're an old soul. You've got a lot of wisdom behind you to hear lots. Say again? I said old souls and new souls.

44:22SpeakerYou're an old soul. We've been around a few times. I always say that we come back and we learn. That's what deja vu is. You've simply been there before something's happened. God is saying that we're all old souls. We've always, always, all of us been. Yeah, there would be no new souls in this, in that paradigm.

44:41BubblemanNo, but there might be the ability to retain information differently, and that what might be the difference between when someone says, oh, you seem like an old soul, or you seem like a new soul, and I'm just, I'm not saying I believe either or, I'm just saying it's a possibility.

44:57SpeakerWell, dare I say... Maybe there's a... Go ahead. Oh, well, dare I say when I used to get stoned and lay there in the hospital beds contemplating the end of my life, which was seemingly imminent constantly... I used to think that it was humanity, like we're all part of this big body of life that has been around since humans had consciousness, and you know, we are all like little nerve endings, you know, communicating to it, having experiences, and humanity is benefiting, and she, he, whatever, the body of energy that is humanity will live long on beyond me, but like a little nerve ending on my body, I could touch a piece of fire and that little nerve ending be burned out, and It's not going to reencarcer, you know, Thank you so much for joining us today.

46:08SpeakerBut really what that points out is the fact that Somewhere deep inside you know you're eternal and you're not attached to any of those results. So you're not really standing up and saying, yeah, this is the way it is and there's no other way it could possibly be. I'll tell you a very, very short story. I got permission from my teacher to go and see a man in North India.

46:31SpeakerAnd this man could supposedly touch you and allow you out of your body as a way of teaching you how to astral travel. So I don't know what the reason my teacher granted me permission was about but anyway I went there and I went looking for him and I couldn't find him and I went back to my hotel and it was midnight and there was some other people following me who had been in the interview room and heard Swami say I was going to get realization and so they followed me and I was always trying to get rid of them and finally at one o'clock in the morning a knock came on my door and I opened it up and there's this shoveled up little old guy dressed up in sort of a sheet like the Janes wear.

47:14SpeakerAnd he came in and asked me if I could have a cup of tea. So I ordered a cup of tea. While we were sitting there, he asked me if I wanted to have the experience of being out of my body. And all of a sudden he was speaking perfect English. And before that, he had a terrific accent, a Gujarati accent. And now he went into perfect English.

47:35SpeakerSo I said yes. He reached across the table, tapped me on the forehead, and I was instantly in a place of all kinds of colors and lights, very confusing. I couldn't hardly tell what it was about, and I got really excited and worried. And I heard him call my name and bang, I was back in the room with him. And he asked me, could you stand it?

47:58SpeakerWas it something you could stand? And I said, yeah, I could stand it. And he says, the second time, it'll be more informational to you. And then without asking me, he reached over and touched me on the forehead again. This time I found myself floating above that hotel in India in the North Hills and the foothills. I was floating there and looking around and I looked up further up the mountains and I saw a light shining in the hills.

48:24SpeakerAnd just as I had started to move towards that light, I heard him call my name again and bang back in the body, shivering like a crazy man from it, drank a little more tea. And then he said, this time now you will learn. And he reached out and he tapped me in the forehead again and I was up above the hotel And I looked at the light and instantly I started flying towards it.

48:49SpeakerAnd I flew up to where the light was and around the corner. And there was a city where all the buildings were like, they had a ceramic smoothness to them, but they were all glowing. And there were all these people walking around and they looked up and saw me and I could see them. And they started waving at me and beckoning me to come down. And I tried to go down and I got as close as I could get at that particular time.

49:14SpeakerAnd then I heard him call my name and bang, I was back in my body again. So the idea that one could be outside of the body and still be alive and still be having experiences came to fruition for me at that moment. And so I... Can I release two thoughts on that? You know, one is you should patent that because I know I saw that in a movie.

49:34SpeakerDr. Strange. Yes. And two, you know, when I was a little kid, I think I was experiencing... Incredible trauma dealing with the cancer and my hip breaking and constant surgery. And then on top of that, they were giving me things that when I later in life felt like ketamine, you know, or rehypnol as a child because it was when I did the drugs later on going on dead tour, I was having kind of flashbacks to what it felt like when I was a little kid in the hospital on heavy sedatives.

50:06SpeakerAnd I kind of feel that what you're talking about, that out-of-body experience, was something that tuned me into the... The connection to the oneness of humanity made me want to be polite, made me love everybody, made me more considerate towards other people because I did feel connected to everything around me. And it wasn't an out-of-body experience that kind of did it. Todd, can I ask you this?

50:32SpeakerI heard what you said just now, and here's my problem with your viewpoint. Not with what you said, but your viewpoint. And that is, not everybody grew up with your circumstances, so not everyone is going to see things the same way. And paraphrasing reality from your viewpoint, I don't know. I have a bit of a problem with that. I'm not trying to paraphrase anything. When I told you that story, it was from no movie.

51:05SpeakerIt was from John, that is amazing. I'm not discrediting your experience, but that exact thing is in the Hollywood film, and I'm not being a goofball. What film? People write about that type of stuff, too. What I kind of think is, take a look at animals. A deer can get up and walk the day it's born. A sea elephant can dive down and catch a fish the day it's born.

51:30SpeakerThose are mammals, and we're mammals. And that is what they call instinct. Instinct is like some sort of hereditary knowledge and information memory. And Carl Jung, his theory of the collective unconscious, that certain symbols and myths and art appeal to us because they appeal to this collective unconscious mind, this inherited consciousness. And he said that that collective unconscious mind was the instinctual force. So there's been something living through all our ancestors and their experience that's carried on genetically into DNA and is buried deep within the roots of our consciousness, deep below our egos and our personalities and our thoughts and stuff like that.

52:11SpeakerAnd it's like at the core of our human consciousness. And that's the instinctual function and that memory, that collective hereditary memory, goes right back to the very beginnings of life.

52:20BubblemanRupert Sheldrake calls it the morphogenetic resonance theory, and it's really quite interesting the way you put it there. I'm a firm believer of this as well, that this information is being passed in this invisible sort of pathway that, you know, and it's, Different morphogenetic resonance theories for different species. And in fact, I believe Rupert wrote a book about how dogs know when their owners are coming home.

52:46BubblemanAnd it's basically like, you know, the dog gets excited. The person's like three kilometers away in their car. They cannot hear the keys jingling yet. They can't hear. They just have this absolute knowledge and instinct that their dude is coming home.

53:00SpeakerWell, think about schools of fish and herds of animals and flocks of birds. They're all operating as one consciousness, and it's like this electrical field of awareness that's affecting the other receptors, you know? Well, look, the morphogenic thing, the thing to know about it is how it operates. In Australia, if you dig up a gopher, it's going to have a pocket. Thank you.

53:42SpeakerI'm sure any story I told, Todd will have seen it in a movie somewhere. Because that's just the way Todd is. Well, dude, you live a lot of... No, John, that's kind of funny. You know what? I mean, you depicted a scene that is in multiple films with, you know, the shaman touching the forehead and the person... Going to the next dimension. But how do you think that was written?

54:02BubblemanHow do you think that story was written, Todd? Do you think it was made up? No, it was most likely based on a story that someone experienced. That's how movies and books get written. Based on life.

54:18SpeakerBecause the big thing about this 19th century occult scene with cannabis was the use of cannabis for astral traveling. And I've got a book here, Sanctuary of Spiritualism. It's got 15 first-hand accounts written in 1848 of people ingesting three grams of hashish and having these out-of-body experiences where they see the same sort of glass cathedrals and glass beings and stuff like that that Andrew was just talking about.

54:46SpeakerAnd this is 1848. Listen. Go ahead.

54:54SpeakerThe whole idea that I would tell you something that didn't happen to me is, to me, ridiculous. But Todd comes from a different base and kind of people. And so he's able to project doubt into anyone or anything. John, Jesus Christ. I'm not. You know what, man, I'm not. You know what, you made something. If I could search faster, I'd find the scene. And it literally, it's not.

55:20SpeakerYou know, John, oh my goodness. You know what? It's cool. Every experience that you have is absolutely correct and all of our other experiences are just minimalized in your eyes and I get it, you know, but... No, Todd, if that's the only way you can proceed in this talk, I mean... It's not, but you know, you're going to sit there and dig on your backhanded, you know, and it's rude and it's like I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm sorry if I don't agree with reincarnation.

55:46SpeakerI've done a lot of psychedelics. I've almost died. I don't care if you agree with reincarnation. It's, you know, look, a lot of us are not religious. So when people start getting religious at us, we do laugh at all. And I'll take it personally. I've laughed at every religion that's come at me. Now you're accusing me of being religious. Another misnomer. A really bad one because it's dumb.

56:09SpeakerDare I say, dare I say, anyone that says I am enlightened and you are not is like a priest at the head of a church. Whoever said that besides you. I was touched by the shaman. I went higher, I went higher, I went higher. I went higher above you all. Nobody said anything about higher. I don't mean to be rude. Come on, guys. Nobody said anything about higher.

56:31SpeakerI'm higher too, right, Swami? This is the basic problem. People who believe in reincarnation think that life is serious. It's not.

56:57SpeakerThank you, Sam.

56:58BubblemanI've been saying it's a game. The only thing I'll say is this. I personally enjoyed the story because, A, I've been to India and seen impossible shit that kind of freaked me out, and I've also experienced being out of my body extremely high on psychedelics, never being touched, never hanging out with a shaman. Oh, that's not true. I've hung out with some Karadero Ayahuasca shamans, but that's a different story.

57:21BubblemanTaking mushrooms on my own, I've gotten psychedelic enough to actually leave my own consciousness, leave my body. And it was also a very trippy experience. So, I mean, I don't know. I think it's, you don't have to believe everyone's stories, but it's good to be respectful and say, I mean, it was a little bit of a, oh, I saw that in a Hollywood movie. Well, that's cool.

57:41BubblemanYou saw it in a Hollywood movie. You know, I've seen all sorts of shit in Hollywood movies. That doesn't take anything away from John's story, man.

57:48SpeakerIt's like this common experience, you know? It's not new. People have had these experiences, that exact thing. But, you know, in fairness to Todd, go see Doctor Strange. The exact thing happens. The holy woman, in this case, touches a guy, leaves his body, goes off into the outer realms and stuff like that. But that's not... Chris, Chris, Chris Bennett.

58:25SpeakerI used to take massive doses of psychedelics. And I'd sit around and talk with my friends sometimes. And they would tell me they could feel the presence of some other force, like God, in the room. And I would say, really? I don't. And then one day, I had the experience. I felt the experience of the other. I was so fucking high. And you know what it was?

58:53SpeakerIt was my left brain and my right brain. And normally you're, I think, right-brained or left-brained, whatever it is. But when you take psychedelics, it switches sides. So one of the possible explanations of this is you're feeling the other half of yourself. And you experience it as an other. But it's not. It's you. And that's what a lot of people... You know, cannabis plays a big role in this because if we go...

59:22SpeakerThe whole idea of heaven and hell, that goes back to these Zoroastrian guys like Arduvira and Vishtaspa. And this is written about in Zoroastrian literature. I have the actual references in my book. And these guys would take powerful drafts We're going to talk about some of the things that we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about some of the things that we're going to talk about today.

1:00:05SpeakerKnocked out, and they think that they're, just like Aborigines in Australia, think that Dreamtime's another reality. They accept that as some sort of reality, and this has led to the idea of heaven and hell and stuff like that directly. So Canvas is directly related to that. You know, my own, I don't believe in discarnate entities, so I don't believe in any sort of soul that leaves the body, and I don't believe in reincarnation.

1:00:25SpeakerWell, I believe in reincarnation of one, one consciousness that's continually reincarnated, be it the human spirit or We're all part of that. The closest we can get to spirituality is undoing our own personalities and ego and getting down to that core of consciousness. That's what meditation and stuff like that's all about, is shutting everything down and just touching on that base, that root of consciousness. That's the immortal spirit.

1:00:51SpeakerI want to say this. John, no disrespect to you at all. I really have a lot of love and admiration for you, actually. You know, it's just that I don't believe in reincarnation and it sounds to me like another dogma or another religion, which I laugh at. And sometimes when people are trying to convince me that they have visions and they're trying to basically convince me that their reasoning, in this case it's reincarnation, is correct.

1:01:19SpeakerI do laugh it off. It's just like a Catholic priest or you name the religious figure trying to say, look, see it my way, kid. Don't take it personally, John. I have a lot of love for you. Let me say something on that. 26 years ago, I had a vision using cannabis, reading the book of Revelation one night, just when the golf course started. And I had a vision that cannabis was the tree of life in the book of Revelation.

1:01:48SpeakerI had no, I dropped out of high school. I'd written nothing. And 26 years later, I can say something real was there because there was this whole fucking massive history that nobody really explored regarding cannabis. And it's looking like cannabis was the soma heyoma. You know, I feel really strong about this information about cannabis. And those ideas are spreading from that experience I had with no education, no knowledge whatsoever about any of it from that experience.

1:02:19SpeakerBut I kind of think that that's part of that collective heritage. What I did is something in me remembered it. You know what I mean? The Rastas and the Coptic religion also pretty much believe that also. Yeah. I always had so much respect for you, Chris, because you've went out and you've found, you know, you took reading to a whole new level and you found the information that you couldn't have been sent off to school to learn what it is you've been teaching us and sharing with me for now 20 years that I've known you.

1:02:55SpeakerYou know, and if you didn't go and read those books and make those connections, to me, you are a scholar, no much less than if you had gone to Harvard or Princeton or Oxford. Well, that led me to that, because I don't believe in somebody else's religious experience, you know what I mean? I've got to experience it myself, and I thought, well, either I was just tripping, Or there's something to this.

1:03:19SpeakerI can believe in an ongoing collective consciousness, but individual consciousness, is it eternal? Is it forever? To me, it's more like a perfume. When it flowers, it's gone.

1:03:33BubblemanIt's that rare, subtle thing we call life. You know, if we all come from this collective one piece of consciousness where there's just this one consciousness, all these little fractions are these souls that are what we are. This is the unique experience. This is different from anything we come from or go to. This is what it's all about.

1:03:55SpeakerI mean, it's a beautiful thing. You know where... We're like bells. And when a certain bell rings in the room, a bunch of other bells ring sympathetically. And what Chris has experienced about the marijuana being the tree of life was him, that bell ringing him early on in his life experience. And it was there to shape everything he did that brought him to the point where he's at.

1:04:20SpeakerAnd so that bell rings for all of us in different ways. We're all called by a different bell. And it's not a religion. And I cannot emphasize enough that I don't do religion. I've seen all the religions and they all have their All little drawbacks. My father was Catholic. My mother was Jewish. And so you can understand perhaps from there how I came to abhor all religions.

1:04:49SpeakerI went to every church there was when I was a kid to see if there was something different about the priest or something that they were saying. And they all had the same message. And when I read all the great books and they all pretty much had the same message too. It's funny you did that, John, because my mother was a stone cold atheist. I mean, a militant atheist.

1:05:13SpeakerAnd when I was young, like 10, 12, whatever, I used to sometimes go to a friend's family's religious services, whether it was Baptist or Catholic or Jewish or whatever. And she used to grind her teeth and hate it. But I was curious. I just wanted to see what was out there. Now, everyone I went to, I couldn't believe they believed this stuff. But I went.

1:05:44BubblemanHey, I want to say a good point. Mike Bishop just hit me up on text from Heidolf. And he says, isn't it funny that everyone is arguing their point and the only thing that is 100% true is that nobody is 100% correct?

1:06:02BubblemanWelcome to Tony on that note. Mark Scaldone in the house.

1:06:10BubblemanHow's it going, T? You all made it up?

1:06:13SpeakerWhat up, what up? How are you guys doing? I think we have all smoked a big one for Rob Clark. Very strong conversation.

1:06:21BubblemanYeah, well, we had Rob was going to come in and do a presentation. Chris came in and saved the day, did his own little presentation. And we've just been having a strong, passionate conversation.

1:06:35SpeakerDiscussion, if you will. People have been getting high and debating religion since pot's been around, man. You know what I mean? Exactly. Well, it's fine. That's what we're doing.

1:06:45BubblemanYou know, whether you're right or not, whether you're right or not, when it comes to these thoughts of where do we come from, where do we go, what are we, these are things that, of course, every single person is going to want to have some form of a belief in, whether that belief is to not believe it or to believe it or to be somewhere in the middle.

1:07:04BubblemanIt is what it is. It's enjoyable.

1:07:06SpeakerAnd I can tell you, Marcus, when people go to jail, a lot of them find religion. When people are going to die, a lot of them find religion. You are very true on that. Yeah, religion is usually the last thing found, no matter what the situation is. But on that subject of that information that I said, while I was living in an ashram 25 years ago, I had that experience.

1:07:31SpeakerAnd I wrote it down in a very popular ashram book that they printed millions of copies on. So maybe somebody in Hollywood saw it and read it and decided to adapt it. But I've got a number of books that I wrote while I was living at that ashram about different experiences I had in different places in India. None of it should be construed as religion because I wasn't at the ashram because of religion.

1:07:58SpeakerI was there inquiring into kundalini yoga and different kinds of yoga and white tantra because I wanted to find out What the advantages, disadvantages, or what was going on with these things. And so I was there researching that. I wasn't there. Can you tell us about some of the cannabis used in tantra? I know Arthur Avalon writes about its use in tantric practices in some of his books.

1:08:28SpeakerAnd I've read other stuff about it. But can you point to any specific rituals that it was used in or how they used it? Well, cannabis in tantra was only used in white tantra, and you've got to understand that there's several different kinds of tantra. There's tantra where they do sex, and there's tantra where they do focus, and there's tantra where they deal with filtering karmas off out of your body.

1:08:55SpeakerAnd cannabis was used during white tantra, and it was, you know, in a big hookah. Kind of thing. And then people would, one there would be a tantric master who would spread his energy bubble over everyone. And then he would serve as a ground and it would filter off past karmas, allowing them to achieve awareness sooner in this life. This guy who did that, who I knew of, When he performed that, people would take wind-up watches and run up and put them on the stage underneath of his chair.

1:09:35SpeakerAnd after the class was over, they would go up and retrieve the watch, and the watch could not be demagnetized. It was permanently magnetized after that. It just has a measure of what kind of energy was going on there. But I'm sure it's going to have to be classified as religious or some other nonsense. In 1960... In 1965, Michael Aldridge went to India on a, what was it, Fulbright Scholarship?

1:10:05SpeakerHe studied tantric cannabis use in India. I've got a great interview with Aldrich online. You can search Cannabis Aldrich and he talks about his time in India. Great source of knowledge. You should have him on here sometimes because he's one of my gurus when it comes to cannabis history. Sir John Woodruff, he wrote about cannabis use, drinking a bong. I'm in the five M's, which is like a ritual where a lot of it's about breaking taboos and stuff like that.

1:10:36SpeakerThe cannabis isn't necessarily part of breaking the taboo, but they drink alcohol and eat meat and then would all end up with sexual intercourse, but usually directed at raising the Kundalini energy, according to Mike Aldrich.

1:10:50SpeakerYeah, well, Kundalini energy, you know, it can be taught by a master who's mastered Kundalini yoga. The problem with Kundalini energy is once it's activated or turned on, if you don't have somebody right there with you who's a master, you can end up harming yourself because it's a potent force that exists in the body. And probably my guess would be that they use cannabis as a voltage regulator in that circumstance In the beginning of it, when you're learning how to allow the Kundalini to release, because it's a very, very fierce experience, and it can leave you feeling debilitated at first and wondering what just happened.

1:11:36SpeakerI happen to have been with a master who taught Kundalini Yoga for a long time, and I went to a lot of the white tantra. Courses that he held. And it was an interesting thing to say the least. Things happened during the tantric course that let you know you were in touch with a partner across the aisle from you who was a complete stranger to you. He would make in the beginning that person write down three questions.

1:12:06SpeakerAnd then at the end, you would have to write down the three answers. And then he would call on people to stand up. And more often than not, all the questions were exactly right and the answers were exactly right. And this was from a person who they'd never met before because there were 600 people there and he moved everybody around. So how do you explain those kinds of things and steer it clear of religion, Todd?

1:12:33SpeakerWell, it's really easy because you don't believe in religion. John, to be honest with you, it's not me and you agree on 99% of what you just said. It's just that it seems to me that you feel that reincarnation isn't a religious belief or dogma, and I do. So that's where I think we disagree, but I'm with you. I don't believe, I think everybody's an atheist because everybody else doesn't believe in the other person's religion.

1:12:58SpeakerSo instantly they become atheists to that other person too. If you're a Christian and don't believe in Allah, well then you're obviously godless to someone who believes in Allah. And on the flip, it's the same thing. So to me, it was easy for me to just ignore other people's beliefs because they were thrown at me like you were as a child. I was raised Catholic and I didn't walk, I ran from church.

1:13:25SpeakerAnd I have no, I am ye of little faith. And then I got into psychedelics and I was given cannabis as a gift as a child. It healed me. It opened up my mind. It connected me to the world around me. It taught me how to grow my own food, my own fruits, my own flowers, my own medicine. I had a very different experience and I was lucky for it.

1:13:47SpeakerI would really not want somebody to come along with a magic wand and take away my 10 cancer experiences as a child. As traumatic as they was, they were my greatest teachers, even more than the priests and the prophets and the You know, the shamans that come around trying to tell me what's right and wrong. So, much respect to you, much love to you, but, you know, that's where we differ.

1:14:10SpeakerBut I respect everything else about you, and I love the stories you share. So, have a good one, brother. You know what I learned? I'm not a religious nut at all. And what I learned from it all was all the answers and all the real truth resides within me. And that's my connection to the whole universe. And there's nothing else besides that. There's no me. There's no universe.

1:14:34SpeakerThere's just that created understanding that I got. And I got it because everybody's tried to tell me their religion. I had people try to convince me to be everything from a cannibal to a priest. And all of it had the same smell about it. That is when people try to convince you to do something because they want to infect themselves, see if it's okay or if it's the way to go.

1:15:02SpeakerYou know, they'll push you off the cliff first and if you survive then they'll jump kind of scenario. And I'm not a, I learned that the hard way and I learned that it's just in me and all I have to do is look inside and find it in me. You know, I've been around 70 years and I got to do probably 35 or 40 years more of stuff than most of the folks around.

1:15:27SpeakerAnd During those years, I wasn't sitting around playing with myself. I was off searching self and why self was here and what was going on. And I found out it's all created by self for self. And you know what? I see reincarnation happening. I see Mark having babies. I see people dying. I see humanity recreating itself and increasing itself on this planet with population growth. And I personally see life interconnected in the gorillas, in the alligators, in the fish.

1:16:03SpeakerI see it everywhere. If you have eyes and ears and you breathe oxygen in some form and you reproduce, we're all pretty much equal in my eyes. And it sounds... Like a deep psychedelic trip thing to say, but I love the interconnectedness of everything I see around me and I think I'm one with it. And it just doesn't have to be me that reincarnates again because I believe humanity, you know, I'm like, I'm on the edge of the shore appreciating the sunset.

1:16:31SpeakerAnd I'm thankful. Very thankful. You are your own God, and if you can't believe in yourself, then really, I mean, you're your own God.

1:16:38Etienne FontanBelieve in yourself and you'll get somewhere.

1:16:40BubblemanWell, yeah, on that note, let's talk about resin. Solventless Mind is in the chat room, and he says, I want to hear about resin.

1:16:48Etienne FontanSomeone else was like, beautiful dry sift.

1:16:52BubblemanExcellent piles of dry sift count. I know D420K was whipping up the medicine over the weekend. I got about 18 different types of, I guess all the different presses I did with Dom and Max from the Sunrise Wellness Center. Only two different varieties are here. Whoops, dropping them everywhere. Most of them are sticking. Only two different varieties on this sheet, but basically different temperatures and different pressures created different... That one is number three, I recognize you.

1:17:24BubblemanThat one is number four, and that one is number...

1:17:28SpeakerI just wanted to say that absolutely the best resin is eternal and reincarnates itself every time after you smoke it.

1:17:37BubblemanThere you go. I could be down for some of that. That's what I'm talking about. Way to meld the conversation, Sam.

1:17:44SpeakerHe's only heard about it, though, because he doesn't believe in reincarnation of temple balls or anything. Temple balls. Yeah, but my hash is so good that it is reincarnated, even without my belief.

1:18:03BubblemanClones keep it immortal. Oh my God. So what's puffin', Tony?

1:18:09SpeakerOh, that's so funny. What's puffin'? I'm puffin' on some really terpy 3 to 1 CBD lemon remedy sap oil. At this point, it's an oil. And do you smoke CBD for its effects or because you like the taste? Or for medical reasons, why do you smoke CBD? Well, I would say first and foremost, a lot of people just like lump CBD into a category, you know, of like now it's CBD, isolate.

1:18:53SpeakerThey just, or, you know, there's certain varieties out there, Sour Tsunami and ACDC and Suzy Q, Canatonic, Harlequin. You've got different varieties. They all have an underlining cherry kind of flavor and kind of taste. You just can't seem to escape from it. And so... Why I would say I like CBD and THC equally, but when we talk about modulation effects and we talk about ratios, CBD is, you know, let's say in one hand, the right hand and THC and both of them do unique things on their own.

1:19:38SpeakerAnd I always try to seek out and explore and push those boundaries we can get out of our CBD medicine.

1:19:50SpeakerAnd this normally get to smoke a solventless CBD oil.

1:20:01SpeakerSo it's something that's kind of new and something we've been working on to try to get different flavors of our CBD. I, one, first and foremost, just do it to try to create, you know, more layers and options. And secondly, I do enjoy the three to one for myself. I've been smoking it now for, I don't know, a week. For medical reasons, I understand. For people who like to subdue the high effects so that they can smoke more THC, I kind of understand that too.

1:20:38SpeakerBut for me personally, What happens is when I spoke CBD with THC, it delays the onset of the THC, it reduces the peak experiences of the THC, and makes the whole reduced effects last longer. It's just not something I want. Well, not everybody wants to get high, so people that don't, let's say people that RJ or people, adults or elderly, grandparents or that are not, you're sensitive to THC.

1:21:21SpeakerWhat's up?

1:21:22Etienne FontanYour connection just went.

1:21:23SpeakerYour voice was really getting weird. So I was making fun of it saying that's what happens when you spoke to CBD.

1:21:35SpeakerWell, I think that, yeah, you got to look at it for medical purposes. So for inflammation or back pain or, you know, for me, it's if I want to keep it really clear. I can't argue with that at all, Tony. People get any medical benefit or if it helps them recreationally enjoy the THC, more power to them.

1:21:57BubblemanWell, obviously we want as many options as possible from the plant. It's a quiver and it's funny to hear people argue like, we don't need that. Like, I don't need that monomolecular medicine and I don't smoke joints so nobody else should and everyone should do what I do. And how about we just have as many options as possible and then pretty much we'll be covering all bases.

1:22:17BubblemanEveryone will be happy. Everyone can do the thing they like and they can even jump out of their box every once in a while and try the thing that they don't like because it exists.

1:22:26SpeakerYou know, Marketplace on CBC is doing a show tonight on the CBD, THC thing. Wasn't it horrible, though? Didn't they just do one that was like, yeah. It's horrible. You know, I can remind it of the early hemp days when they were saying like, hemp is not marijuana. Yeah, that's. And now there's a certain fraction of people are going, Well, CBD is not THC. And so you could have this like medicine that doesn't get you feeling good.

1:22:50SpeakerNot that there's not something valid to the whole CBD thing, but there's an element of people trying to legitimize CBD by separating it from THC.

1:22:59BubblemanAnd I will say that we were very much a part of that with hemp. We totally lied to our ministers of agriculture and finance. When we approached them, we told them straight up like, oh, it's a distant relative of marijuana, low THC. And it was the Zola Tinocha. So the THC was so low. They were like, wow, like this is lower than what we wanted it to be.

1:23:23BubblemanSo they were just kind of like, let it happen. Yeah, they've just lifted a bunch of the regulations around growing hemp.

1:23:31SpeakerI saw that. I saw that. It increases the industry.

1:23:37BubblemanSo THC testing is one of the things they lifted, but only for certain cultivars of hemp, which means they've still left it open. They still can do THC testing. And then amounts, I believe you no longer have to put how much you're going to produce on your license, which is great. And it goes to show you, although that did take 20 years.

1:23:58SpeakerAnd you don't have to have a GPS until you plant.

1:24:04BubblemanYeah, no doubt.

1:24:06SpeakerGPS, because before you applied for your license, you had to give GPS locations.

1:24:12BubblemanRight. Sure. All sorts of crazy stuff, like as if you were, you know, applying to hold anthrax in a special compartment, an underground compartment on your farm or something. Like, it's the most ridiculous thing for a plant. But it's nice to see that foot-in-the-door mentality, even though it took decades. Thank you for joining us.

1:24:49SpeakerI personally don't like it at all, but we also developed the first high pure CBD variety a decade before anybody else, so I do believe in it as a medical tool. Right. Well, interesting enough, I have a lot of THC, oil, and rosin with me, and I'm actually enjoying smoking or vaping this oil. It's 3 to 1 CBD sap more than just straight THC product. I don't know.

1:25:25SpeakerIt makes you feel good. Cool.

1:25:31BubblemanIt definitely makes you talk like a robot.

1:25:36SpeakerBut don't you think there's going to be a big market for stuff that's not as potent but tastes great, has a great scent, you know, and like gets you through your day? Because isn't that what most people want? Yeah.

1:25:49BubblemanWell, scary enough, if you look at what most people are...

1:25:52SpeakerYes, most people want that.

1:25:53BubblemanMost people, what they want in life is, I mean, I hate to say it, it's like the McDonald's. And you see more people go to McDonald's than almost anywhere else. And I just mean that metaphorically, like low-qual, quick, fast, cheap, all the things that they've been sort of led to believe are the best ways. It's hard to sort of... Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:26:38SpeakerHow should I put it? Functioning potheads. You know, we do everything we do a little bit, you know, smoking, and I mean, yeah, and then at night it's completely different. You know, we can lay it on, sit in our hot tub, have a different cannabinoid experience.

1:26:59SpeakerYeah, and I think that also ties back to the earlier conversation. You know, for those that use

1:27:09SpeakerYou know, cannabis in high concentration with lots of THC, like Skunk Man Sam's talking about. Perhaps there's a belief, maybe there's a connection that links that mind and body a little bit better together for him. And since he's not religious and doesn't believe, Anything like that. It would just maybe for you, the experience itself is something that makes you feel good. And therefore you just want to do it that way.

1:27:48SpeakerYou know, and that's kind of how CBD is for other people. Where it just makes me feel good. Maybe it's tuning my mind and body a certain way. It just makes me feel better overall. And Tony, I never believed that there was a best cannabis for everybody. Just for me, I know what I like. I believe different smokes for different folks. Whatever it is, it turns their crank.

1:28:16SpeakerThe cannabinoid profile, the terpene profile, what they want is what they like. More power to them. There's no accounting for taste. You know, there's no accounting for taste. It might have to do with his endocannabinoid deficiency. And so his body may not be making enough of the endocannabinoids. And so the feeling good that Tony has is actually a feeling of nourishment because his body is now properly nourished.

1:28:47SpeakerIt could be CBD. It could be THC. But it's an effect that has, again, almost like a vitamin kind of quality to it that if you don't take your vitamins, you're not going to feel good. I would say it's like that. For sure. And you know, the flavor has a lot to do with it. So this, you know, as you know when you get into CBD stuff, everything has that cherry taste.

1:29:10SpeakerYou know, so I guess I'm just enjoying this one because this is more like lemon, pine nut fuel with no cherry. I've consistently heard from many, many, many people about the cherry connection. Do you ever taste varieties that taste really cherry that have zero CBD?

1:29:32SpeakerNot really. The cherry seems to be, well, no. I'd say no, not like the CBD ones are. I believe it's a distinctive cultivar that's been circulating around because it's really, it's unmistakable in contests I've taken photos for, be it in the concentrates or in flowers, it is right there.

1:29:59SpeakerYeah, it's always something that's inherently there. For this one, that's what makes this one a little bit unique is that it's not. It's a true blueberry cross with a, like, Afghani lineage, you know.

1:30:16SpeakerSo it's two together that's not, doesn't present the cherry taste but has a 3 to 1 CBD. Perfectly. 3 to 1. So the cherry is not per se the seed the the cherry the the CBD is not per se a cherry taste because you can get high CBD without the cherry taste but for whatever reason the high CBD varieties that have been going around here have all had a really strong cherry taste.

1:30:52SpeakerYeah I'd say the higher like this is a three to one so this is a nice blend um But every single CBD variety I've had has a cherry taste. I've never like somebody's given me a high CBD variety and I was like, oh, well, you always taste it. It's just always there for whatever reason.

1:31:15BubblemanWell, you must have the terpene breakdowns on a lot of these high CBD cultivars. It would probably show it pretty clearly what terpenes were.

1:31:25SpeakerI think at the beginning there was just a few plants that were being used. What was it? Harlequin or catatonic? I don't even remember the CBD lineage, but it could be very likely that the same plant Genetics were basically used for almost all of it. And that's why it could all be cherry flavor. Whereas in Afghanistan, if you take seeds from Afghanistan, 25% of them are high CBD, 25% of them are high THC, and 50% of the seeds are 50-50.

1:32:02SpeakerSo if you take those pure CBD ones, they don't have a cherry flavor. Yeah, so that's what happened here. That's interesting. So this is like a blueberry... Afghani mixture that's created high, high, high resin with no cherry, you know? So, I don't know. That's why I'm enjoying it. I keep going to it and I've got other things. But I like pouring a little drop into my vape pen and just like puffing on it until it's completely gone.

1:32:37SpeakerYou know?

1:32:39BubblemanWell, there's nothing wrong with that. I like to... Oh shit, I like to drop it into my nail and puff it through my pipe.

1:32:49SpeakerSo I have a, we were talking earlier about dry sift and the pressing, there seemed to be like a lot of back and forth online with your post.

1:33:03ZachWhich post?

1:33:04SpeakerOh, the one you just showed earlier that showed the different times, the different temperatures.

1:33:11BubblemanOh, okay, yeah, that's of rosin, not of dry sift.

1:33:15SpeakerYeah, of rosin, but the two categories that you brought up, rosin and dry sift, can we go back to that? Sure. Because there's a lot more, and now I'm seeing since last year, you know, maybe we had one or two people doing this, the static tech 99% sift, and now there's like five or six that are popping up with it, and You know, what are people doing out there?

1:33:43SpeakerAre they just using like, you know, the DVD tech?

1:33:48BubblemanOh, people have used everything, man. People have used paint rollers.

1:33:54SpeakerPaint rollers?

1:33:55BubblemanYeah, they've wrapped up one of those paint rollers in parchment. I personally always found that having an edge seems to help the best, and that's why I don't use a DVD, but I would use like a thick... A thick book and like the wider the edge of it, the more that I could kind of pick up and it always seemed to pick up a variety of contaminants and a variety of heads sort of both on different sides of the edge of that whatever that case that you're using.

1:34:24SpeakerIn Amsterdam, the guys at the THC Seeds, they used to make what they called Oprah hash And they'd be fucking with dope and cleaning it and so stuff would get in the air and they would have Oprah on the TV and they would afterwards clean the surface of the glass on the TV and they said they got really good stuff.

1:34:51BubblemanThat's hilarious. Well, that's funny because I remember years ago when people were like, how can I get contamination out of my dry sift? And it was Black Paw who actually was like, oh, you can use, he was like, I just use an old TV and I just plug it in and it creates the static on the tube. And I'm like, well, that's ridiculous. And I came up with a balloon.

1:35:09BubblemanI tried it with balloons and it didn't get super good results, but then I tried it with a Vandy graph generator.

1:35:36SpeakerOh, yeah. I put like five grams. I dropped it onto a running Van de Graaff generator, and it made all of the resin shoot off and stick to all the walls of the whole fucking room.

1:35:50BubblemanOh, Jesus.

1:35:54BubblemanOh, fuck. I guess that wasn't redone ever again.

1:35:57SpeakerNo, that was the first and last time.

1:36:02BubblemanOh, my God. So, yeah, did you want to talk about the different temperatures and the different press times? Is that what you wanted to mention, Tony?

1:36:11BubblemanOh, I think he might be gone.

1:36:14SpeakerYou do all that from straight flour without putting it in any kind of rosin bag at all, right?

1:36:22BubblemanThese ones were all done with rosin bags, 7-gram squirts.

1:36:26SpeakerOkay, okay.

1:36:28BubblemanYeah, we did like 12.

1:36:30SpeakerYeah, so your temperatures were almost exactly like what I would do.

1:36:34BubblemanWell, dude, keep in mind, who do you think told me my temperatures?

1:36:41BubblemanSoil Grown. He told me exactly what to do. So when I started posting it and having all these people come out and talk their utter and complete bullshit, it's like, look, I'm not saying, you know, doing one... We were looking between a head stash and a sort of a commercial production, like looking to get the best resin we could with...

1:37:11BubblemanIt was just under 20% from the 75 grams. So it worked out fine. It's just funny to see how people just they all have the answers. And then I go on to every one of their Instagram accounts and they're all private. So I can't even see their work. I can't even see what they're, you know, here I am showing a beautiful Like sweating, buttering, terp rich rosin.

1:37:37BubblemanAnd they're just like, oh, that's way too hot. You press it for too long. It's like, well, it's all just opinion, people. It is all just opinion. And for me with Bubble Hash, what I always went for was A quality that I considered a five to six star, which meant taste, melt factor, potency, all of those things were important. I did the same thing with raws. And then, of course, yield.

1:38:00BubblemanI want to be able to get what's there. Not at the expense of lowering the quality of my final product, but I absolutely want to get what's there. So pulling 20% or near 20% off of all of that bud felt good.

1:38:19SpeakerIt was great because I got 20% off all three runs of what I used the Swish with at your place. It was awesome.

1:38:27BubblemanYeah, we squished up Johnny's first and then I squished up my own and then, you know, Dom and Max came down from Sunrise and they were like, we want to see this thing in action and we squished up. We did a video actually and that video will come out right after the Short Path Molecular Distillation Unit from VTA via Root Sciences, which I think is a fun little video.

1:38:48BubblemanGet to see the unit in action and Corey, their technician down in Seattle, is going to do the dub. Audio for that video, so it'll be a pretty interesting video. I got a little bit of that distillate they gave me and I put it into one of these glass syringes and yeah, it's really solid, really stable, tasteless, you know, classic distillate. Not something I'm overly excited about for me, but definitely something I'm excited about, like all of these aspects of having it be available to people.

1:39:21BubblemanIt's a step in the right direction, in my opinion, having these products be made available to people. CBD is another. Is that THC or THCA? This would be THC, the short path molecular distillation unit. And I'll let Mark Scaldone take over. I'm just going to do the short intro here. There is a reason why decarboxylation is necessary in these units. And I know the reason, but Mark's going to say it so much better than me.

1:39:48BubblemanSo you want to go ahead there, Mark?

1:39:51SpeakerWell, yeah, I mean, you're distilling at high vacuum, so decarboxylate, because when you decarboxylate, you're generating a gas, and that's going to fuck with your vacuum pressure. That's right. So before you put anything into your short path, you want to make sure it's completely decarboxylated and as fat-free as possible, because that's going to generate all the char and the residue that is going to make you have to clean out your still head more frequently.

1:40:21BubblemanSo basically the carboxylic acid ring removing is producing like CO2 or something and that's removing the vacuum from the unit?

1:40:29SpeakerWell, yeah. I mean when you heat up a molecule and it gives off a gaseous molecule, that now goes into the vacuum. So it's going to compromise your vacuum pressure if you're constantly giving off CO2. So you just want to do that. Without doing it under high vacuum because it's going to mess with the vacuum pressure and the vacuum pressure is what determines what temperature the compounds are distilling at.

1:40:54BubblemanRight, and this is the reason why the terpene cuts that are coming off of this unit, the first and the second, the heavy and the light, are just beyond ruined and terrible because it's all been decarboxylated, it's been heated up, and the smell is so rank and horrible and nasty that you just can't even imagine.

1:41:12SpeakerYeah, so let's put distillate in the... Oh, did Mark freeze up for anyone else? Yeah, he froze up for me too. All right, he'll jump back. Question for Sam, the skunk man. And Sam, have you ever done like a kilo of skunk? And then how much of that kilo is resin heads? Have you, you know? Okay, when I do dry sifting by machine, I can get a yield of about 10%.

1:41:42SpeakerBut that's farmer's hash. That's not super high cleaned up resin. It's farmer's hash. And I can clean that up to... So you start with a kilo of weed, then you got 100 grams of... Farmer's hash. And then I can clean that up to 10, 20 grams of 99.

1:42:02BubblemanYeah, so farmer grade hash just means that it might be 20, it might be 30% heads inside the 100 grams.

1:42:13SpeakerThe resin level, the THC level is 33%. Right.

1:42:20BubblemanDid you want to finish up there, Mark?

1:42:22SpeakerYeah, I'm back. I'm sorry. I don't know what happened. No problem. No problem. I just dropped out for a second.

1:42:26BubblemanGo ahead.

1:42:26SpeakerSo, yeah. If you're looking to optimize a...

1:42:33SpeakerPurity of a compound, when you distill it, you're basically distilling typically only that compound. So you're really going to be concentrating probably mostly THC from this. And this is going to be something again where I think you can take a lot of leaf and trim and lower quality product that don't, Thank you for joining us.

1:43:14SpeakerAnd so I think, again, my view of this is that this product is going to be something you're going to use to just formulate into other products, either edibles or vape pens or things like that. Reconstitute it. Yeah, so maybe what you can do is you can actually steam distill your terpenes Thank you so much for joining us.

1:43:55BubblemanI said you guys should be terping this shit before you throw it through here because it is getting, all the terpenes are being so badly destroyed. And to answer Sam, yes, this is like 96 or 97% THC.

1:44:07SpeakerSo that's basically the equivalent of cannabis distilled spirit. Yeah. Yeah. So it's distilled under high vacuum, so there's probably very little terpenes there. The only other components that could be there are other higher boiling cannabinoids.

1:44:27BubblemanYeah, they do terpene cuts, so they have the coal trap built right into the unit that comes out of the condenser. And they have two different methods of the coal trap has two directions for terpenes to flow. They have the lighter ones that go into this tiny little ball glass piece at the back. And then in the front, there's an actual nozzle that they'll, they drip out into a jar.

1:44:50SpeakerAnd Mark, can you tell me if, if this is analyzed, will there be any Delta aid in it from the manufacturing process?

1:45:00BubblemanThey showed me one printout they had, and it was just THC, CBD, and CBN that was present. Were they looking for Delta-8? I am not too sure. I would say doubtful.

1:45:17SpeakerBut I can ask them if they want to. You have to look for Delta-8 because when you heat up THC to that temperature, especially if there's a little bit of acid present, it could essentially isomerize to Delta-8. I've seen that happen a lot. Yeah, Delta 8 is more stable. What temperature did it go to be at? Yeah, when they look at archaeological remains that are thousands of years old, and they say they find THC, they're not.

1:45:45SpeakerThey're finding Delta 8. Right.

1:45:52SpeakerYeah, and it's going to be a slightly different peak in the HPLC, so they have to, like Sam said, they have to actually intentionally look for it to find it.

1:46:03SpeakerAnd I think in terms of its activity, it's two or three times less potent for cannabinoid binding. Don't quote me on that number, but it's less potent than Delta-9. I don't know anybody who's ever smoked or taken Delta-8. And I was going to buy a gram of it just so I could fucking do it, but it's fucking controlled just like Delta 9.

1:46:33SpeakerHere in Europe, none of the other cannabinoids are controlled, just Delta 9 and Delta 8.

1:46:40BubblemanGoldleaf Lab Scientific says if you don't use enough vacuum, you will get Delta 8.

1:46:45SpeakerYeah, so that just means you need a higher temperature. And so, yeah, the higher the temperature, the more likely you're going to start seeing Delta A, but also, like, The material that you're putting into the short-path distillation, you want it to be as pure as it possibly can be. And when I say pure, I mean fat-free because a lot of the fats and unsaturated compounds that are extracted and that could be removed by winterization are going to create some of the foul-smelling burnt rubber, terpene, the lower boiling thing that really flavors a lot of after it because it has such a pungent odor.

1:47:25SpeakerFish terps. Yeah, fish turps, exactly.

1:47:33SpeakerYeah, sometimes it tastes like, I think people characterize it as degraded peanut oil. So if you've ever had peanuts or sunflowers that were exposed to air. Yeah, so it's the same type of degradation products that are typically aldehydes by nature that come from the degradation of some of these unsaturated fatty acids. So it's basically rancidity. Exactly. Yep, same compounds. And you can taste that in some, I've actually tasted it in some rosins that have been teated up too high, almost have like a, I want to say like a burnt taste, but it's almost more fishy than burnt.

1:48:17SpeakerIt's got like a fishy kind of taste to it. Fishy rosin. Yeah, I think I attribute that to thermolytic degradation of some of these unsaturated compounds that are in the waxy component of the trichome. The oil that I see the most rancidity in is cannabis seed oil. If it's not stored right, it's not made right, and old seeds are used, the stuff is rancid, man. Oh, yeah.

1:48:48BubblemanYeah. Yeah. Even the stuff that I bought from Manitoba Harvest at the grocery store and sent to Indra to defat when I had it tested in the lab, it was like a turpentine Thank you for watching.

1:49:29SpeakerSo it's just, it's a nice, it's a really good shine on your innards.

1:49:34BubblemanOh man, the smell of that makes me shivers, to be honest. Thanks, Misha.

1:49:39SpeakerYou got to keep it under nitrogen and out of the light because underneath the ultraviolet light or if it's exposed to air, it will go rancid. It's just a matter of time. Freeze it. You can freeze it or keep it very, very cold.

1:49:53BubblemanYeah, well, this is an industry though. These guys are moving tons of this shit all across North America in different trucks and they end up at different places and Maybe sometimes people forget to close the fridge drawer. I don't know, but I'm just saying when it was tested after concentration, it tested high in some things that were, you know, only show up after rancidity occurs.

1:50:14SpeakerWe started the first body care products and shampoos that are made out of cannabis seed oil. And we told everybody that bought our products, keep them refrigerated, keep them cold. And this was just, you know, soap. Yeah, well, most of those kinds of things are loaded with chlorophyll still. And when we extract it using our method, there's 100% no chlorophyll in it, and the shelf life is fabulously long.

1:50:47SpeakerIt doesn't go rancid, even left open to the air.

1:50:53SpeakerI truly find that amazing. Not that I don't believe you, John, because I'm sure you're telling the truth. But I'm just saying my experience with cannabis seed oil, gee whiz, I mean, I've never seen anything like that. Hey Sam, back 20 years ago there was an article from the German vegetable oil testing laboratory that was testing how high a hemp seed could be brought to for cooking purposes and the results were rather surprising.

1:51:26SpeakerDo you remember what I'm talking about? Was it by Phylan and Helga? I can't remember her name. I think I do. Was it published in our journal? Yes, it was. And the premise was that the EFAs were stable at higher temperatures than we expected. Yeah, but they still, they burn and smoke at the temperatures that you need to fry food. But they have developed high oleic acid varieties, which, or maybe they remove the oleic acid, one or the other.

1:52:03SpeakerI'm a little bit spaced out right now. But the effect of it is monosaturated. Yeah, you can, they now have ones that you can absolutely use for frying. Yes, they do. You mean hemp seed oil. Yeah, hemp seed oil. It was developed in the UK. It's not being grown or sold. But they replaced all of the essential fatty acids that normally would burn in smoke and replaced them with folic acid through gene tilling.

1:52:36SpeakerSo they didn't add anything new or take anything away. They just silenced a few genes that were producing the wrong oils. Instead, they produce way more stable ones at high temperatures. Yeah, so what they do is there's things called unsaturated, which take the monounsaturated, which is what the 18-1 or oleic is, and that goes up to linoleic and linoleic, and they knock out those genes to basically make it stop at the monounsaturated.

1:53:12SpeakerAnd they produce that variety from finola, the variety from Finland, and I developed the variety finola.

1:53:25SpeakerYeah, I think that just, you know, as we learn more about the use of hemp foods and also cannabinoids being seen as almost vitamins in our system, I think we're going to see a whole lot of different, the way that we use cannabinoids, especially in their acid forms with their availability and low pricing, I have a feeling it'll be in drinks and it'll be in snacks and it'll be, you know, balance your endocannabinoid system, you know, eat a brownie, It won't get you high, but it will help you stay healthy.

1:53:58SpeakerYou'll be in your cereal. It'll be in my bowl. But, you know, don't you guys all see in, you know, micro dosing happening in the future where people are, once we acknowledge that our endocannabinoid system may need more cannabinoids to be balanced, I just have a feeling someday it'll be like nutrients on the back of a label. Hey, welcome, Zach, to the room. Hey.

1:54:31ZachHow's it going? Can you hear me?

1:54:34BubblemanIt's going good, man. I can hear you fine. Yeah, you got some headphones on as well? Yeah. Excellent, excellent. So, yeah, I don't know if any of you guys are familiar with Zach Walsh, who's just entered the room here. Zach and I are both from Winnipeg, so we've known each other for, God, it's got to be 25 years. 25 years, I would say. I was thinking about that the other day.

1:54:58BubblemanIt's pretty wild, isn't it? So I wanted to read your bio that Natasha sent me to let everyone know who you are and what you're up to. So Zach Walsh, PhD, is a clinical psychologist and an associate professor of psychology at the University of British Columbia. He's published over 50 articles and book chapters on topics related to substance use, personality, and mental health. And his work has been supported by the Canadian Institute of Health Research, the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council, and others.

1:55:31BubblemanAt UBC, he leads the Therapeutic Recreational and Problematic Substance Use Lab, which houses several ongoing studies of the therapeutic use of cannabis, including the first clinical trial of cannabis for PTSD in Canada. His team recently completed the most comprehensive systematic review to date on medical cannabis and mental health and Zach has testified on medical cannabis use as a part of the Allard case here in Canada and has consulted on the topic to the Canadian House of Commons, the Canadian Governmental Task Force on Legalization, the Uruguayan Department of Health and many others.

1:56:04BubblemanThat's a mouthful Zach, welcome.

1:56:08SpeakerNice, welcome Zach.

1:56:11BubblemanSo yeah, we were just kind of, we were just talking a little bit about cannabinoids. Todd was going on about how he felt like they were eventually just going to be in our foods and drinks and cereals, you know, as we get to realize the importance of what is endocannabinoid deficiency and understanding the importance of feeding that system with these compounds.

1:56:34ZachSo that's where... Yeah, I know, it's such an interesting... We have no idea what's coming next. Exactly.

1:56:44ZachThat's what we're looking forward to anyway.

1:56:47BubblemanNo, no, that's no problem. We'll get into the vibe of it. Did you want to maybe tell us a little bit about this PTSD study that you're involved with right now?

1:56:56ZachYeah, so it's sponsored by Tilray. They're the ones who are providing the cannabis for the study and providing some of the support for the researchers. It's going to be the first controlled clinical trial of cannabis for any mental health condition. And we have the cannabis on site, and we're screening people into the study right now, so it's kind of cool. We're, look, we've got three different strains.

1:57:23ZachWe have, well, if you consider the placebo a strain, but otherwise there's, it's just leaves from the THC or CBD. And then we have a balanced THC, CBD strain, about 10 to 10% and 10% THC strain. And they're going to be, you know, so we don't know who's getting which strain, but we're assessing them on their PTSD symptoms across three weeks on each strain. Two weeks washout in between and then they go to the next condition.

1:57:54ZachSo yeah, we're really excited to get started. We have a little study in the U.S. with MAPS using money from Colorado and we've been kind of racing with them to see who's going to be first and it looks like we're, I think we're ahead of them because their cannabis has to come from NIDA and luck with that, NIDA still can get together to grow decent quality cannabis after I don't know how long they've had the monopoly.

1:58:23BubblemanYeah, well, I mean, I haven't seen every batch of Tilray's herb, but I've definitely been in their gardens and I photographed it and it was pretty damn beautiful. I saw a few different friends of mine had ordered some of the things and were smoking and enjoying them. So I do also hear, you know, it's tough nowadays because there's so much sort of misinformation a little bit in the sense that, you know, all of the dispensaries are sort of on one side, all of the LPs are on another side.

1:58:50BubblemanAnd you see this division that's occurred with who's going to get to be a part of this future. But I do have to say, you know, I don't think I've heard of a dispensary laying out some hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars to do any type of studies with the university. So good on Tilray for hooking that up and sponsoring that. I mean, shit, what can you say bad about that?

1:59:14BubblemanThat's an amazing thing.

1:59:15SpeakerWell, and thank you for saying that about Pop Monopolies, too.

1:59:20BubblemanWhat's that?

1:59:22SpeakerHe just mentioned that the National Institute has had Monopoly for years and they still grow shit pot. And I appreciate him saying that because that's what happens when big outfits and corporations get a hold of it. It's not a corporation, though. It's the government, John. He's talking about the University of Mississippi under what is now Muhammad Asoli, used to be Colin Turner's work. And unfortunately, you know, the stuff they send to my friends, LV Musica and Irv, is old.

1:59:53SpeakerI mean, I could show you labels. It's just manufactured. And then five years later, they have a prescription date. And it's just pathetic. And it makes you really wonder what agenda are they really working to if they're intentionally sending a little old lady with glaucoma Five-year-old cannabis. And then inevitably, this will be the stuff they hand Rick Doblin and the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, which will be this old, decomposed, resin-less, terpene-less plant material that they hand you and say, marijuana.

2:00:32SpeakerIt's really like they're trying to prove it doesn't have any value whatsoever. Yeah, but it's not just stems and leaves. They're testing to see how little pot will cure you. Go ahead, Zach. It still helps healthy. I think all of the... It still helps the two people that they send it to are fanatical about how helpful that crappy pot still is in their life. I just want to add that the cannabis is that much of a miracle.

2:01:02SpeakerGo ahead.

2:01:05BubblemanGo ahead, Zach.

2:01:09ZachOh, did we lose him? You know, yeah, I'm coming in and out, but I think what's amazing is so much of the research has been based on that cannabis from NIDA, which is nothing like the cannabis that we're all familiar with. Like it's really, it's not even close, it's not even like poor quality cannabis that you'd be used to. I think it's, I haven't seen it firsthand, but my understanding is it's something far worse than that, at least from the pictures I've seen.

2:01:36ZachSo all the research that's been done with like experiments and stuff in universities in Canada and the US, it's all been using that cannabis. So, you know, it's really, Tilray and the licensed producers are the only ones that can supply cannabis for research purposes now and get it through the governmental approval. I still do a bunch of research with partnering with dispensaries and I think all of the players are important.

2:02:02ZachBut at least now for researchers, there's a way to get Thank you for joining us.

2:02:25ZachIt's just a new world in terms of what researchers can do with human studies of cannabis.

2:02:30SpeakerThey produce those cigarettes like that on purpose. Number one, they purposely grow just medium quality Mexican. Number two, when the material is dry, they sift it. Yeah.

2:03:09BubblemanWell, we've mentioned it quite a few times with Dr. Natasha in regards to these studies and it's kind of why it makes me really happy to see the study that Zach is involved with where they're not looking for the negative. They're not actually looking for the, you know, like, oh, let's just convince everyone that cannabis is the worst thing for PTSD and that's what we're going to look for because that's what the majority of these studies over the years have been focused on.

2:03:34BubblemanThey've been looking for the negative, not the positive. So I think it's a huge move in the right direction to see them doing studies.

2:03:42SpeakerA couple of years, Marcus, you could not get funded by NIDA to find anything positive. Of course. Dr. Abrams was one of the first. And he tried and tried for a couple of years to get funding for a cannabis smoked study for its effect on AIDS medications at the same time that the patients were using both. And he couldn't get it funded. So what he did was he changed it to, does marijuana harm AIDS patients if they're also taking this medication?

2:04:16SpeakerIt was approved instantly.

2:04:20BubblemanYeah, that's what I've heard, you know, people just if they want to get that funding, you know, it can come from other options. So, Zach, do you think that that's quite different going on here in Canada now with what's happening that we're able to, you know, actively look for investment in these studies without having to mention anything negative but really focus on the positive?

2:04:45ZachYeah, I mean, just having access to cannabis for research for really, in some ways, the first time is huge. I mean, the research has been so stifled. If you want to do official research, you've got to get it through a research ethics board. Otherwise, you're not allowed to do it if you have a position at a university, which is where all the research gets done. So it's got to go through the ethics board.

2:05:06ZachAnd if it's going to go through the ethics board, you have to tell them, where did you get the cannabis from? You can't just say you know someone. You have to be able to show where you're getting it from. So it has to be an authorized source. And there was no authorized source of anything but low, low quality cannabis. So it's a whole new world. The cannabis we're using is not the strongest cannabis.

2:05:25ZachIt's about 12% THC, so it's pretty mild. We wanted something where we could get a close to a one-to-one ratio. And then we wanted the other one to be balanced with THC, so they had equivalent THC. But people are going to be able to do research with all different types of cannabis. And that's new. So I think in five, ten years, we're going to see so much stuff that none of us even know is going on because people aren't talking about it, but it's happening in different research facilities.

2:05:53ZachIf you were to talk to all the LPs and they were to tell you all the different research that's going on, we'd probably be surprised by some of the different projects. But I think five, ten years, we're going to get a lot of big flood of data.

2:06:05Etienne FontanI hope so, anyway. Well, and we thank you. I'm a combat vet. I suffer from PTSD. And I can't thank you enough for, we've been talking about these things for generations. I'm a Gulf War vet, so I've been doing this for 20 plus years. But these kids that are coming back need it now more than ever. My generation, not as much, but... Thank you. Much respect.

2:06:41SpeakerIt's not like it was totally unknown. My dad told me stories of smoking hashish in North Africa during World War II in between firefights to get everybody to calm down. There was no alcohol available and so the locals would supply them with hashish and they would smoke it.

2:07:04BubblemanChimera had a question that he wanted me to ask Zach. He says, ask Zach what he thinks about the Liberal government cutting back the veterans' access to three grams per day at $8.50 a gram.

2:07:17BubblemanChimera, always with the, shouldn't government policies be dictated by scientific principles?

2:07:25ZachWell, you know, I think that the relationship between a doctor and their patient is really what's important. Whatever the physician is recommending, I think it should be covered. I don't know why they'd put an arbitrary number and say that's enough for everybody. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. If someone has a reason to be using more than that, and they said they cover the medicine, they should cover the medicine as it is.

2:07:48ZachThat's my opinion.

2:07:50SpeakerYeah. Yeah. It's like giving them a heart pill that's only 30% efficient.

2:07:57SpeakerYou know, or something equally stupid like that, which is what happens when you allow politicians to dabble in medicine and law at the same time, and which neither one of them are they qualified to dabble in.

2:08:11BubblemanTrue enough.

2:08:12SpeakerDon't we all believe that these limits, you know, it's almost like they're failing reins of control, just trying to hold on a little more before we're all too intelligent to allow it anymore. And I, you know, I feel like all these little few grams here, it's all going to melt away because it's impractical. Yeah, well, like Chris, I think you're right. Go ahead, Zach.

2:08:39ZachSorry, I think you're right. I think it just seems to be meddling for, I don't know what their rationale is, why they say it's too much or too little. I don't think they would, they wouldn't do that with another type of medication. Just set an across the board limit. And It's almost like people feel that they have to make some kind of compromise instead of just accepting the truth of it as a medicine.

2:09:02ZachSo they're like, we'll do it a little bit, but only so much.

2:09:05SpeakerThey do have to throw a limit when it comes to obvious things.

2:09:10SpeakerNothing that the government has to do with makes much sense anyway, sir. Right. But, you know, isn't this a culture shift we're experiencing too where people used to believe a lot of the dogma around cannabis. It was bad. It would hurt you or make your children addicted or whatever. But now, you know, we've all got smartphones. We've all got access to Wikipedia and other forms of information.

2:09:35SpeakerWe can sit and read. It changes, I think, the cultural opinion of cannabis. And I believe that as it's more thrust into the cultural consciousness of it, saving kids and helping people, it's going to shatter the old prohibitionist doctrine that's been around us that caused the bigotry and the push away from regular culture. And cannabis will just become part of the culture.

2:10:04Etienne FontanWell, we force this cultural change. I mean, we've demanded, you know, that there was medical marijuana, and they said, no, you're crazy, you're high. And then over time, they started to realize, oh, wait, maybe they're not so high. And then they started to really look at it, and they're like, Oh, actually, they're really not high at all. In fact, it goes even to a further history. So, yeah, it's become a cultural change because we've forced that cultural change.

2:10:28Etienne FontanWe're now having science back us up. We don't just have anecdotal evidence of people saying, oh, I'm high and that's just how it is. We have actual facts. I have patients every day that come in and out of my facility every single day. That are living testimonials to cannabis. And I've opened up our dispensary multiple times to research because we see that as a huge cultural change because they dismissed us as being crazy and now they're like, okay, well, let's see the science.

2:11:01Etienne FontanSo now we need science more than ever to help prove what we've been Thank you so much for joining us.

2:11:28SpeakerAt 10, the big problem is cannabis rides a very narrow line between medication that helps you and something that makes you feel good.

2:11:40Etienne FontanI'm well aware of that.

2:11:42SpeakerWell, that's the problem that the politicians and all of them imagine is the problem with cannabis. They think it's a problem that alters your consciousness and it should just be a medication and it shouldn't alter you or make you high.

2:12:00Etienne FontanThe science will dispel their wishful whims, which have caused the drug war to continue.

2:12:08SpeakerI understand that, but the thing of it is, it makes you feel good, and... Thank you for watching.

2:12:29BubblemanJohn is also, or Indra is also a vet, a veteran, Zach, who was in Vietnam and smoked his first joint under gunfire, as we have heard here on Hash Church. Just to give you a little background on him, we've got a few vets who make regular appearances here.

2:12:48SpeakerWe're all veterans, Marvin. We are, we are. We're all veterans of the drug war.

2:12:53BubblemanThis is true. This is true. But it seems to be a little bit, well, I mean, who's to say? You're right. I mean, geez, they took Todd and smashed his door down and put him in a cage for five years. That's pretty fucked up. Like, that is definitely fucked up. Dude, you know what's funny?

2:13:06SpeakerFor the whole five years I was in prison, I wrote it as POW 11071112. And they hated it. But when they'd come at me and they'd say, you're not a prisoner of war, I'd say, why don't we call it the drug what? The drug what? Just say it for me, the drug what? And they'd always get annoyed and walk away.

2:13:26BubblemanWell, there's no doubt about it that it is definitely a war, too. In that sense, Sam is very accurate. I mean, I almost said, go ahead, Sam.

2:13:35SpeakerI was just going to say, if there's one thing they hate worse than a smart aleck, it's somebody who's right.

2:13:43Etienne FontanAnd proves them wrong.

2:13:45SpeakerYeah, well, you're dealing with prison guards too, Todd, so you can't hold them to too high of a standard. Can I say, John, a twist on that? You will like, John, three of them, after legalization passed, contacted me. I've been out of prison now like 14 years. Writing to me saying, man, I'm a patient now. I'm not going to, I'm smoking, I'm retired. And I fucking, and sending you love.

2:14:08SpeakerAnd I got to say, like, they waited. They waited like a long time. So in some ways, I met a lot of good people in prison because they're locking so many people up. And a lot of them were soldiers that came over that just wanted to continue their military, like, pay schedule and grade and be able to retire and, So they took a job and yeah, they weren't bad people.

2:14:32SpeakerSo it was such a mix of weirdness.

2:14:35BubblemanI can imagine. I'm sure some of them weren't the best. Welcome back, Zach. Hey. So can you tell us a little bit about in regards when I read your file there, where are you? The most comprehensive systematic review to date on medical cannabis and mental health. Can you tell us?

2:15:01Etienne FontanYou might want to re-ask that question. You're freezing up for a sec there, Bubble Man.

2:15:07ZachI think I got most of the time asking to talk a little bit about the review. Yeah, so it's pretty cool because we did a systematic review. It just came out last week. I got some nice media, some positive media about cannabis and mental health.

2:15:30ZachBut what it found was it looked at every article that's been published on mental health and medical cannabis. And then because there's so much stuff on non-medical, we just reviewed the reviews of that. But overall, it's the most comprehensive look at all the literature. And we broke it down by types of mental health conditions. The reason we did it is because I'm a clinical psychologist as well as a researcher, although mostly I do research.

2:16:00ZachAnd people would ask me, colleagues, you know, what do we know about medical cannabis? Is there a place where I can find it all in one spot? So we're trying to do that, trying to put it all in one spot of what a clinical psychologist or clinical social worker or even psychiatrist might want to know. So we looked at every major mental health condition and we also looked at cognitive functioning and risk of harm to self or others.

2:16:21ZachSo those are the things that psychologists are asked to talk about. And we found varying by age. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:16:53ZachEven less alcohol and other illicit drugs and replacing cannabis with that and we talk about the public health benefits that are going to come with that. I think that's such an important thing when people are talking about in mainstream discussions about legalization and what it all means is looking at that substitution for more dangerous drugs particularly with the opioid crisis right now. So we talked about that.

2:17:15ZachWe also talked about if people are in treatment and this is something that I'm hoping is going to really resonate With providers, if people are in treatment for addictions, a lot of the time they're not going to be, or they're going to be discouraged from using medical cannabis. They're not, you know, disallowed entirely. And what our review found, there's no reason why people should think that that's going to interfere with substance use treatment.

2:17:43ZachSo hopefully people can, you know, hold this up and say, hey, I shouldn't have to quit my medical cannabis just because I'm trying to, Get into treatment for alcohol or opioid withdrawal. So those are a couple of the big findings that were getting the most attention.

2:17:57SpeakerDo you see those being tools in the future for getting off of opiate and alcohol? Cannabis being actually something that would be better than the alternative of a life of addiction to alcohol?

2:18:13ZachYeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think there's great potential there. I mean, we probably all know people who have used it that way, but, you know, I think what's going to be interesting is finding, like, what's the best way to use cannabis to get off alcohol? Is it an edible? Is it, you know, regular throughout the day? Is it at the end of the day? You know, treat it like, if we're going to treat it like another medicine, then there's regimens of how to use it, and probably vary across people, but I think just taking it, the main take home from the review is that Mental health professionals, doctors need to look at this just like any other medicine.

2:18:49ZachIt's going to be differentially effective for different conditions, different dosages.

2:18:56ZachTalked a little bit about differences in strain. We know it's not news to the Hash Church listeners, but, you know, a lot of psychologists don't know about it. They don't know. They've probably heard of THC and CBD or Indica Steva, but what does that mean for mental health? So we talked a little bit about The importance of different strains, maybe in psychotic disorders with high THC more likely to induce psychotic episodes and CBD having potentially anti-psychotic effects.

2:19:25ZachSo just trying to add a little bit of nuance to the mainstream conversation around cannabis and mental health. There's a lot of awareness, I think, about using it for pain or epilepsy. But if you look at the surveys of medical cannabis users, mental health conditions top the list, anxiety, depression, PTSD, reducing for Use of other drugs. So I think this is so far the biggest attempt to sort of put all that stuff together in a way that's cannabis as a medicine.

2:19:55SpeakerCan I ask, are there studies that are looking at it from both the THCA standpoint and the THC Delta 9, well, it's all Delta 9, but a THC psychoactive standpoint?

2:20:11ZachNot that I know of. I mean, we're really, our study that's looking at THC and then a balanced THC CBD is, I think, the first mental health study to directly look at effects for different strains. And it gets back to what I was saying before. If you wanted to do authorized research with cannabis until very recently, you were looking at using that NIDA cannabis, which doesn't allow you to look at anything, sensitivity.

2:20:36ZachSo it's just now we're going to be able to compare different strains and extracts and all that stuff.

2:20:41SpeakerSo a lot of the patients that are now experiencing or experimenting, I should say, with THCA in their system as opposed to, you know, the old school way, you know, which was smoking a joint and, you know, feeling the nausea go away or whatever, which was probably one of the first. They're kind of chartering on uncharted territory in a way there. Because even science hasn't caught up to what patients are doing when they're ingesting THCA for, you know, different ailments.

2:21:12SpeakerAm I correct?

2:21:14ZachYeah, you're absolutely right. In terms of the fine effects on behavior, we have no idea. I mean, of course, we know the safety is pretty good. We've got thousands of years of anecdotal evidence showing safety, showing effectiveness in numerous ways. Traditions, as you guys all know, but yeah, that fine-tuned Western science approach to differentiating between different types of cannabis and different cannabinoids is nowhere near where you'd even guess it would be.

2:21:49ZachGiven our scientific understanding.

2:21:51SpeakerThen my question to you is also because I remember when I was younger, one of the inhibiting factors of research was that the cannabis was psychoactive. But the truth was is that it was not. That they made it psychoactive and then used it as a boogeyman to stop the research and our use of it. But in reality, if we ingest THCA, it's not psychoactive and we can have this medicinal effect without any of the You know, it's sacrilege to say to some, but any of the very joyous high involved with the decarboxylated chemical.

2:22:30ZachWell, I think it's an open question. It's definitely an interesting one. But I tend to think that at least with some of the mental health conditions, I would be surprised if the high isn't part of the effect, part of the positive effect, if that isn't part of the cure. It may be that for some conditions, yeah, THCA may have its value, and it could be. It's definitely worth testing, but I would be surprised if getting high didn't have something to do with relieving depression.

2:22:59SpeakerWell, when I was a kid and I had cancer, getting high was, to me, not like getting high because I was way below normal or happy. I was going through chemo. I was dealing with radiation. My mom was always crying around me. It was a drag. So smoking cannabis brought me a little closer to happy or normal. I don't know what normal was, but it brought me a little feeling.

2:23:19SpeakerAnd that euphoric feeling absolutely helped, you know, ease to unravel disease, if you will.

2:23:28BubblemanIt reminds me of what John said many times in Hash Church and really said about five minutes ago. It's hard to feel bad when you feel good.

2:23:38Etienne FontanWell, one of the first studies that was done at BPG by Dr. Ryman found that a majority of patients are actually using medical cannabis to substitute for their alcohol. So that in itself was a start, and then it was replicated up in Canada as well. So there's already studies out there, but they're... Not necessarily being hindered, not being hindered, but it's definitely not being promoted as well as among the physicians that I know.

2:24:08SpeakerThe alcohol was already self-medication and it was deleterious to your well-being and people who were drinking it well knew that. And when cannabis came along, instead of being deleterious to your health, It was an aid. So out goes the bottle of booze. And that's what concerns the alcohol industry and the Pharmaceutical industry.

2:24:34Etienne FontanAnd both who turned out to be the ones paying the most money against these elections that just happened.

2:24:38SpeakerWell, the one who paid the most money recently was the prison food industry. They just gave an enormous amount of money to the election cause to try to get cannabis legality turned around because they don't seem to realize the connection between cannabis and prison food. The only way prison food tastes good is if you have cannabis.

2:25:02Etienne FontanHot sauce. I was in the military. It was all about hot sauce.

2:25:06SpeakerHot sauce and cannabis. The only way they can get people to eat prison food is by putting them in prison.

2:25:14Etienne FontanThis is true. This is true. What Sam said.

2:25:18BubblemanHey, so Zach, you are also a part of testifying on behalf of the Allard case, correct?

2:25:25ZachYeah, that's right. I think we ran into each other there.

2:25:28BubblemanThat's right. Yeah, that was the first time I'd seen you in a long time. So yeah, did you want to maybe give, Allard was a big case here in Canada, a big part of us allowing to become, to continue on with our MMAR licenses and sort of forcing the government's hand, which is a pretty big deal, you know, when governments make decisions and then the people say, no, this isn't right.

2:25:49BubblemanZach got to be a part of that. Did you want to tell us a little bit about that and how that went for you?

2:25:55ZachWell, how it went, the result of the Allard case was good. So I think we were generally pleased with that. So that was really rewarding to be part of that. I missed part of your question, so I don't know if you said, but that's where Canadians, to some extent, had their right to produce their own cannabis, protect it, word it the way the judge came up for it.

2:26:21ZachSo it was great to be part of that. It was also, you know, part of what I love about doing cannabis research is you get people interested in it and it has an effect right away. So it was great to see it. You know, the reason we were doing it is because we did a study of barriers where we interviewed medical cannabis patients, surveyed them, and asked them about particularly how cost was a barrier to them accessing cannabis other than producing it themselves.

2:26:47ZachSo it was great to see the research used that way. I love doing the research and working with medical cannabis community and overall it was one of the more rewarding experiences for me just to be part of that victory. It was great to have a win. So it was cool.

2:27:04BubblemanThat was historic for sure. I mean, I was there just as a person to visit and to watch because I wanted to be a part of it, you know, on that level. But to be able to get up there and actually be a real part of why the decision came through the way it did is, that's got to be a real honor for sure.

2:27:23ZachIt was. I give all the credit to Kirk and John Conroy. Those guys are Awesome.

2:27:29BubblemanYeah, they absolutely...

2:27:30ZachAnytime we get a chance to see them in court, it's pretty exciting.

2:27:34BubblemanYeah, they absolutely slayed the dragon, so to speak. If any of you guys got to be there, I know John was there for a bunch of it. It was pretty impressive to see, especially the few times that Conroy and Kirk just got these guys. That one guy from Health Canada, he got them on the ropes and he just couldn't get off. He was just like... Bam, bam, bam, bam.

2:27:54BubblemanIt was an amazing thing to see as a long time cannabis activist.

2:28:01ZachWe got to get Poe. It's great when you have the truth on your side. It makes it easier to deliver those blows for sure.

2:28:08BubblemanYou know, I was going to say that when you mentioned how people, how it's contagious when you start studying cannabis and how people really react to it. And that's part of that truth. People react to the truth and they're so, it's so rare to hear truth these days. That when you can just back it up and the truth rabbit hole that is cannabis goes so much deeper than I think any of us know.

2:28:30BubblemanI mean in the last just 20 years, 20 years ago when my stepbrother got cancer and passed away within six months, I had no idea that he could have been eating that and potentially Thank you for joining us.

2:29:12SpeakerWe must find a way at all costs to tax happy. And that's one of the big problems in our system. They can't figure out how to quantify and tax happy just yet because if they could, they would be whacking us with that bill right now.

2:29:29BubblemanWell, it's, you know, it even reminds me yesterday I went to a little birthday celebration party for a longtime friend. And, you know, I'm the one puffer in the group, although I ended up seeing another guy with a black brimmed hat who ended up being a snowboarder and a puffer. And we end up downstairs, you know, and it's like, oh, there's kids. You better go outside. Oh, this isn't far enough.

2:29:47BubblemanTurn out the light. Can you go under the deck? Oh, we're in the rain. Everyone's upstairs consuming alcohol. This poison that is this huge tear on the social fabric that is mankind. I'm not dissing it. I'm like, go ahead, enjoy. But it's always been that way with the pot smoker. It's like, can you go in the bathroom? Can you go out back? There's a garbage can around back.

2:30:06BubblemanGo behind that. This is where we've always been sort of Where we get to you and the fact that it's one is a medicine and one is, you know, not a medicine, clearly, it just blows my mind. It's been my whole life, my entire life of cannabis use has been that even among people who are cool with it, it seems to still be, I mean, we did the Thanksgiving show the other day.

2:30:31BubblemanWhat was the title of our Thanksgiving show? It was Let's Go for a Walk. Because any puffer who's ever been to any family Thanksgiving event has gone for the walk. And so that's why we called it the Let's Go for the Walk. It's just hopefully more studies, more normalization. I like the normalization of cannabis. I want it to be in the cereals. I want it to be in the drinks.

2:30:53BubblemanI want tons of university studies to be uncovering incredible discoveries. It's like how big does this mine go that is cannabis?

2:31:06ZachWe're talking about one of the folks was talking about using instead of alcohol. We have a study that's not published yet of university students and talking about binge drinking is a real thing on university campuses with undergrads. They talk about how they use less alcohol when they're using cannabis. It doesn't make them crave alcohol at all. We have a bar on campus. A lot of campuses do.

2:31:35ZachAnd I'm just waiting for when we're going to have a vapor lounge on campus. Because I think that's where, really, this is supposed to be a scientific institution where we're on realiztic assessments of risk, et cetera. So why should, you know, I think you could argue there shouldn't be a bar on campus. But if there's going to be a bar on campus, people should at least be offered a safer alternative if they want to .

2:32:05ZachWe should have a vapor lounge on campus. And I think maybe that'll be where that normalization starts because then they can go home with their kids and say, hey, kids, this is not for you. This is for us, just like they do with alcohol. That's a great idea. You don't have to hide it. You don't have to lie about it. All you do then is teach your kids that drug use is something that's supposed to hide from their family members.

2:32:27BubblemanWell, why don't we get it sponsored by LPs and dispensaries, create a social experiment that you can call a study for UBC, and it'll be, you know, studying the actual mental health of people that have the ability to use their medicine under the Normalization Act of Cannabis 2016.

2:32:45ZachI think I would love to push that envelope.

2:32:53BubblemanYeah, no doubt. Man, I'll sponsor that, I'll tell you right there. A vape lounge on a university campus. Oh, man. That's a successful business model.

2:33:04ZachWell, it's going to happen somewhere. Why shouldn't we be the first?

2:33:08BubblemanI think UBC would be definitely a perfect university for such a thing to happen, especially for those of you that don't know where the University of British Columbia is located. It is really beautiful down there on the endowment lands where this property is. It's a pretty cool little area close to Wreck Beach. It's an impressive place to say the least if you've ever been down there. Good place to grow?

2:33:35BubblemanOh, I'm sure you could grow some greenhouses of cannabis. I'm sure there's some professors actually growing some cannabis in some of those mansions surrounding the UBC property.

2:33:47ZachWell, you know, we've got, there's definitely all kinds of botany going on there and experimental botany. I know there's a number of botanists who are interested in it. There's all through the, when you start to open it up around the university, a lot of people are interested in the endocannabinoid system. Whether or not they're interested in herbal cannabis and humans, but if you start to broaden it out, there's a lot of people who are interested in the plant, they're interested in animal stuff, so I think we could easily, down the road, have a cannabis wing at the university.

2:34:21ZachAnd maybe that's where you'd house the Vapor Lounge.

2:34:24SpeakerWell, it's actually already started with Jonathan Page at the Nandi Labs. There you go.

2:34:33SpeakerHe does some very interesting stuff. I remember University of California, Davis campus in the early 80s, where the mycology labs were, were rife with mushroom growing. Oh, yeah.

2:34:49BubblemanWell, there's no stopping the fungi, you know. They don't even try. That's why I think even prohibition, making mushrooms illegal, I always remember it being, yeah, they're only illegal when you dry them.

2:35:04SpeakerI was going to ask, Zach, are you guys looking at any future research? I'm like trying to get... Hello? We hear you. Any future research with opiate addiction and cannabis withdrawals and stuff like that? Because you're dealt with the addiction. I know you guys have a lot of research on that.

2:35:21ZachAbsolutely. So... Actually, just working with Eden Dispensary in Vancouver now with providing, they have a program where they're providing edible capsules for people who are on methadone and seeing if it can reduce their methadone use. And we're partnered with them to look at the results and help interpret them. So that's just, Jeff, that's something else that's just underway. That's another government medicine.

2:35:52BubblemanAnother government medicine, yeah. Well, I'll tell you, I did... Methadone.

2:35:56SpeakerMethadone. That's as bad as heroin.

2:35:58BubblemanWe did the experiment about, oh, 20 years ago with my friend who was just making too much money and not doing enough anything. Ended up addicted to crack. He ended up on heroin. He was just going down a downward spiral fast, living in this beautiful apartment playing music but just doing all the wrong drugs. And it got really bad. Like it got a hold of him to the point where he was scared.

2:36:22BubblemanHe was in his 50s at the time. And, or late 40s. And he basically, he came up with this on his own. He just said, hey, can you get me some of that, some of that bubble hash? That real, that real, real powerful melty stuff. And I think I gave him maybe like, maybe like five or six grams of it. And he went into his apartment and basically locked himself in there with no hard drugs and a little glass pipe.

2:36:48BubblemanAnd he said he smoked the bubble hash, much like a crackhead, like just like... And said he literally, the guy never did crack or heroin again after this. I really believe he worked through his addictions in about a four, three, three and a half day period of not leaving that apartment. Definitely went through some nasty withdrawals. But said he got higher smoking that hash the way he was smoking it than what he was getting off of those substances.

2:37:14BubblemanAnd it was a part of what really... Thank you for watching.

2:37:42ZachFree access to cannabis.

2:37:45BubblemanHe said the smoking of it was like a huge part of it. Like 30 to 40% of it was just loading the pipe, holding it in his hand, and then holding the torch lighter to the pipe. He said that was like part of what he needed, which was scary.

2:38:04ZachI could see it. No, it's really interesting.

2:38:06SpeakerI think a guy in downtown Eastside did some kind of stuff like that back in the late 80s.

2:38:13BubblemanI think anytime you can use a benign substance to get someone off of a fairly deadly substance is a pretty big win.

2:38:22ZachIt's terrific from a public health perspective. And some people will say, hey, oh, you're substituting a drug for a drug. And those people are ridiculous.

2:38:31BubblemanThose are the same people that are worried about AIDS patients having bad cholesterol because of the food they're eating from the munchies that they've gotten from increasing their appetite. That is the most insulting and ridiculous thing to worry about from a person who is suffering from wasting syndrome.

2:38:51SpeakerI love that chain of events you just put together in order to get to that point. But you know, in Brazil, if you successfully complete a number of ayahuasca takings and you're in jail, if you graduate from, I don't know how many it is, 10 or 12 sessions, and the shaman says you're good to go, you can get out of jail. Can I ask, doesn't the endocannabinoid system somewhat prove how ridiculous we're being when it's not really replacement, it could be part of the function that we need?

2:39:25SpeakerIt'd be like denying people vitamins and minerals and then being like, why aren't you healthy?

2:39:30BubblemanWell, and telling us that we're replacing a drug with a drug when literally 80% of pharmaceutical medications are memetics. They mimic the endocannabinoid system. What's going on in there with cannabinoids? So it's like, isn't that exactly what most of these drugs are already doing? Replacing a natural benign one with very little side effects aside from euphoria and feeling pretty good with ones that are much more complex and offer all sorts of different side effects that are much more detrimental than sometimes the thing that you're taking the medication for.

2:40:07SpeakerLet's face it, if you take something more than three times in a row, you're hooked.

2:40:14ZachThe whole concern about something that has positive side effects, whereas, you know, if something has negative side effects, a physician will tell you to stick with it and to stick to your medication. But if something has positive side effects, they become super concerned and think you should avoid it at any cost. I really don't understand it. It's just like kind of some kind of philosophical difference that people must have because it doesn't make any sense to me.

2:40:38BubblemanWell, as many doors as we've pushed through, it's still not quite open. And the fact that you can get away from the governmental herb and, you know, all little steps, the fact that, you know, everyone in California can grow six plants, all little steps.

2:40:53ZachThat's so huge. That's going to be so huge.

2:40:56BubblemanPeople don't understand how huge that is. This is like 40 million people, man. Do 40.

2:41:00ZachMore people than ever had before. It's more than everyone else combined. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:41:33SpeakerIt's a weird time where we are teaching our doctors, and it's like I think that everybody listening needs to kind of realize that they're responsible to go out, and if you're using cannabis beneficially, you should share that information with your physician and the people that are treating you so they better understand this for the greater good of us all.

2:41:56ZachHey, you guys, I got to get out of here. It was a real pleasure being on the show. And I'd love to come back sometime. Great to see you, Mark.

2:42:05BubblemanYou're always welcome, Zach. Thanks for coming out as well. And we will stay in touch. I want to be in touch with you for sure.

2:42:11ZachFor sure, man. Take care. See you guys. Have a good one.

2:42:16BubblemanRight on. Well, that was nice to, you know, I was a little bit, I'm not going to lie, I woke up, I checked my first email and it was raw. It must have been so hard for Rob to write that email, especially with the conversations we've had in this sort of like, I hate announcing people because they don't show up. But poor Rob had a friend pass away and wasn't able to make it today.

2:42:36BubblemanBut when I read that this morning before the friend passing away, I was just like, oh, Thank you so much for watching.

2:42:53BubblemanI know Chris Bennett came in this morning with the sole purpose of checking out Rob, but he really sort of helped us out, kind of create the morning conversation. Of course, he got into religion, which is hilarious. I swear one day we should just do a whole show on religion, politics, and vaccines, and see if any of us ever talk to each other again. Oh, fuck, I love you guys.

2:43:14BubblemanSo I don't know, in the meantime, let's have another pop. I don't feel like ending church anytime soon. You guys are all smiling and I love it. And the people in the room, the people watching, 700 plus viewers, I think they're having a good time too.

2:43:26SpeakerYou know, I didn't mean to laugh when you were telling your story about your friend. It was the part where you said he was sitting around doing the wrong drugs. It just kind of hit me.

2:43:33BubblemanDude, he was, and he's such a good dude, but it was like, money affects everyone differently, and it affected him in this way where he just, you know, I think that he wanted to be on a roller coaster all the time, and he had the ability and the time and the confidence that that money was going to continue to come in, and he just, he just... I've always been blown away and maybe a little naive to hard drugs because, you know, people be like, oh, that guy was totally on coke.

2:44:02BubblemanAnd I'll be like, he was? Like, it's weird when you don't do a substance, when you haven't snorted a bunch of heroin or smoked a bunch of crack rocks. You don't really know what it's like to be in that headspace. So for me, much of my life, aside from Maine and Hastings, which we like to call pain and wastings here in Vancouver, very horrible drug addicted street corner.

2:44:25BubblemanIt's just super obvious, but back, if I'm at a party, someone's doing a little coke or doing some other hard drugs, I generally don't, I don't really even know they're there. I don't know that it's happening, but unless it's a really good friend.

2:44:41SpeakerYou know, it's really simple with hard drugs. If you like them, you should never take them. If you don't like them, what the fuck do you want to take them for?

2:44:51BubblemanDude, amen to that. That is for real right there. An accurate statement I can stand behind. I said something years ago where people were, I said, you know, if I even ever wanted to try such a thing, I think I'd probably wait till I was in my 90s on my deathbed potentially, you know, and be like, All right, I'll give that a shot. This was when I was younger and I was trying all sorts of psychedelics.

2:45:15BubblemanI generally like to stay clear of synthetics, but I definitely tried MDMA and tried ketamine and tried a few other psychedelic substances that were very, very trippy and mind-bending, to say the least. I appreciated the ones certified by Mother Nature. Even from LSD, I preferred psilocybin and psilocin. I preferred, you know, things that were even at DMT.

2:45:39SpeakerLSD is actually a semi-synthetic. So, I mean, it's, because it's produced in the earth.

2:45:47BubblemanYeah, that's, I mean, it's natural semi-synthetic.

2:45:49SpeakerYou have to diethylamide. No. Nature is the best chemist, I think.

2:45:54BubblemanI appreciate when it's been certified by Mother Nature. There was something that gave me good feeling in my psychedelic journey when I was, you know, peeking or navigating through this space. I was always like, right at the back, it was like... Oh yeah, that was certified by my, mushrooms were my all-time favorite. I loved psilocybin mushrooms and thanks to Terence McKenna who beyond inspired me with his words.

2:46:19BubblemanI loved his metaphors. I loved the way he spoke and the, you know, the way he articulated.

2:46:23SpeakerAre mushrooms legal in Canada through the mail?

2:46:27BubblemanI don't know, but they grow all over the place, and I used to grow them when I was a teenager, and I've never had a problem with them, and I've had many, many, many dozens of pounds of mushrooms around me.

2:46:37SpeakerThey're not legal in America. And then they go here. They're not. That's going to slow us down. We're not. That was not being illegal.

2:46:50BubblemanThey're not. They're not legal here. They're not legal here, but they're not really like they don't have mushroom task forces set up. If you got caught with a bunch, yeah, you'd be probably charged, but they might even drop the charge.

2:47:04SpeakerFresh mushrooms are legal, but you can't have dried ones. And what you can have is those, what do they call them? Sclerota stones?

2:47:16BubblemanYeah, the Philosopher's Stones. The Philosophers, yeah.

2:47:19SpeakerAnd they have those of a dozen different species. You can order those right through the mail. They deliver them to your house the next day. They're not expensive at all.

2:47:30BubblemanIt was legal for us to order the spores.

2:47:33SpeakerExcept for there is no dozen different species that produce sclerota.

2:47:42SpeakerI don't know what to say. Maybe it's only six or ten or whatever it is. I don't know. My wife buys them all the time.

2:47:52SpeakerThose were amazing. I was living there in the winter of 96 when suddenly they announced that psilocybin mushrooms were legal and all these mushroom shops started popping up.

2:48:05BubblemanThose smart shops were awesome.

2:48:06SpeakerThey started having nightclubs that opened up between 9 and 10 and you came in and then they served tea at 10 and you could leave but no one was received after 10 o'clock. So the whole place was just vibing on the mushroom tea. It's awesome. The guy that has Himalayan Mountain Seeds, I forget what the name of it is, not exactly his name, is Tony.

2:48:29BubblemanHe's the guy that started... Oh yeah, Sagamarta.

2:48:32SpeakerYeah, he's the Sagamarta Seeds. He's the guy that started... We all know Tony. Tony's the guy that started Philosopher's Stones in Amsterdam and ran it up into a pretty large thing. We had him before he did in California. I've had him for a long, long, long time, but I was just saying he made a big deal out of it in Amsterdam for quite a while.

2:48:57BubblemanWell, I'll tell you, as much as I like the Philosopher's Stones, they are a long-distance second or third to Baocystans and Cyanescens, and if you can get them, Azorescens, which I don't know if you guys have much experience with those three. Even Semelanciatas, the Liberty Caps, have an incredible headspace, super ripping high if you take enough of them, and they just grow everywhere. At our airport, Vancouver airport, you see people, when you're pulling into the airport and there's grass on the right side and you see people walking with golf clubs, I promise you they're not hitting golf balls.

2:49:32Etienne FontanSee, and I was told once by the RCMP that I was allowed to carry them and have them, but once I put them into a bag...

2:49:41SpeakerIt was illegal. So that's why we always pick and eat. Well, the bag says you're collecting. That's, you know, they use the mincing of words in the law to protect you from yourself, or so they say anyway.

2:49:57BubblemanI was collecting some Baocystins, which are, if you don't know about them, look them up. They contain Baocystin and Norbaocystin, which are fairly hallucinogenic properties. They really create visual effects, this particular mushroom. And I was out on a cow patty pasture in Maple Ridge. Thank you for watching.

2:50:37BubblemanAnd I didn't see the wire that was going across the top of the fence that was electrocuted, like that was powered by a battery. Fuck, it got me right on the bridge of the nose. And I'll tell you, man, I'm sure it wasn't that powerful, but it was powerful enough to put me, for me to fall back onto my back and see stars. And it was just a funny thing.

2:50:59BubblemanYou got to imagine too, it's like five in the morning because we're on people's properties and we shouldn't be there.

2:51:04SpeakerSo did you finally pick them or what?

2:51:06BubblemanOh, fuck. Not only did I pick them, I ate them while my face still hurt.

2:51:11SpeakerSo John, my wife just looked at her little booklet and she says she can get six different kinds of sclerota stones. Yeah, that's right. There's six different kinds of mushrooms that produce them. And the mushrooms that Mark was just talking about that grow above the ground, These are the Liberty Caps, but they're the species that Terence McKenna isolated in the Georgia and Florida area. And they grow the sclerota.

2:51:41SpeakerThen after you empty the jar out and clean all the sclerota, you spread the rest of the mycelium down and case it, and then they produce those little Liberty Cap mushrooms in great quantities. But you know, when they dry up, you need 20 of them to be a quarter of a gram.

2:52:01BubblemanYeah, the bail systems were a little bit, they looked more like a stunsy, which is not a very powerful mushroom, one that we're not very excited when we find them and pick them, but very much bigger than a Semmelinciata. The Liberty caps are tiny. They look like hairs when they dry with the little bell cap on top.

2:52:19SpeakerSounds like the Balinese Paniolas. Yeah, Paniolas. They were about like one mite each when they were dry.

2:52:27BubblemanThey look a lot like Semmelinciata. Those Paniolas that you just mentioned look almost identical, except they're lighter in color than Semmelinciata.

2:52:36SpeakerWell, there's another Paneolus that's not that small. There's lots. Paneolus subaltius is a superb mushroom, and that gave me one of the strongest trips I'd ever been on. But it was a good-sized mushroom. You could just eat one. The ones I used to eat in Bali, I've eaten 100 many, many times. I've eaten 200 a few times. Fresh.

2:53:02BubblemanAnother one is Germanica that has just been discovered, I think, in the last four or five years that has really high concentrations of psyllium.

2:53:23BubblemanI love mushrooms. I'm not going to lie. What's not to love about them? Well, I mean, you said it, man. The logo is right there. Figure out of a turd. Figure out of a turd. Well, not always. Here's the beautiful thing about West Vancouver where I live.

2:53:43Etienne FontanNo, that was Bill Hicks. Bill Hicks says that.

2:53:46BubblemanI know, but it led me into my conversation, so please don't stop me. I'm joking. All of West Vancouver, all of the boulevards are wood chip, and that's why cyanescens grow everywhere. And you can literally look for those big honey mushrooms, you can see them, you can drive with your car and look on the boulevards, and if you see those big ones, they are an indication that often, we call them an indicator, that there could, like 8 out of 10 times or whatever, be some of these cyanescens.

2:54:13BubblemanSilicibin Cyanessens. Wavy caps for those of you that don't know the Cyanessens names.

2:54:19SpeakerThe Cyanessens will be found underneath most specific trees in the leaf debris. After the leaves fell and are starting to go off is when the Cyanessens will fruit and it will be cold. Yep, it's true. A mushroom expert from Santa Cruz, David Aurora, who is a friend of mine, he went to the Himalayas and found two new psilocybin species while he was there.

2:54:48BubblemanI'd love to have him on Hash Church with Paul Stamets and a few other mycologists. I think mushrooms are super interesting.

2:54:56SpeakerPaul is freaking amazing.

2:54:58BubblemanPaul blows my mind and makes me want to do a standing ovation after he's been talking for two minutes.

2:55:05SpeakerNo joke. He talks good stuff. He's a smart guy.

2:55:09BubblemanBut he doesn't waste time talking. He's like two minutes in and you're like, holy shit.

2:55:15SpeakerYeah, I'm upset I missed that.

2:55:17BubblemanYou got to pay attention. You got to pay attention the whole time that guy talks and he's not slowing down. He's consistent. He just goes, and that's it. You better listen. That's why I recorded the last talk he did handheld in my hand, no tripod, just holding my camera, trying not to shake or move.

2:55:37SpeakerYeah, he's been saying it for a long time.

2:55:39BubblemanHe has, but it has changed over the last 20 years. It has evolved into this incredible talk. If you haven't seen it, go Google, you know, one of Paul Stamets' talks. I have one up on my channel, his most recent one, and it is, it's talking about saving the bees and like recreating our ecosystem. It's incredible.

2:56:02SpeakerHe's a smart guy. I met him 35 years ago in a little cafe for breakfast one morning with his wife and kids.

2:56:10BubblemanWhen he looked like a super tripper with the big long black hair and the big beard?

2:56:15SpeakerWell, he was starting to change into responsible dad. Oh, nice. We were talking about our favorite kinds of mushrooms, and he was doing a lot of the Looking over his shoulder before he said anything. Of course, we had just met for the first time, too, so he was probably trying to decide for himself was he going to get busted in a few minutes. Paul lived about 10 miles from my mother's house near Olympia, and I went over and visited him, and I found his love of mushroom and his passion Thank you so much for joining us.

2:57:26BubblemanHe gave one of these books, which is Mycelium Running, How Mushrooms Can Help Save the World. This is basically much like his talk, but into an extremely concise, for any of you that have ever read any of Paul's books, you know that he gets right down to it. He's like the Rob Clark and Skunk Man Sam of the mushroom world.

2:57:53SpeakerThat's what I say right there. I'm going to say yes he is, 100%.

2:57:57BubblemanYes he is. Well, we've got a couple more minutes before 12 o'clock. What do you guys say we have another big puff before we call it a day here on Hash Church? One last nice pop?

2:58:07SpeakerDoing some bubble hash, of course, and then I'm going to put some dry sift on top of that to top off a nice sifty sundae.

2:58:15BubblemanOh, excellent.

2:58:17SpeakerI'm going to be working on some sift today.

2:58:21BubblemanExcellent, excellent. Good on you, Johnny B. And hopefully I'll see you this Tuesday and we will film a Puff Wednesday. I missed you this Puff Wednesday up in Whistler.

2:58:29SpeakerI was, you know, coming back from the birthday weekend.

2:58:34BubblemanDid you see I uploaded it? It was opening day at Whistler. It was a pretty fun one. I've got to get you up there one of these times.

2:58:41SpeakerWe will definitely do that this year. I've got the Argo in the front yard all cleaned up, running, everything.

2:58:47BubblemanOh, are we going to go Argo-ing next Tuesday?

2:58:51SpeakerWell, I cheers. There's a problem. My gasket kind of blew. I'm going to have to take the thing off and put a part on it.

2:58:58BubblemanSo it's not quite running.

2:59:00SpeakerNo, it's driving. It's just making a really loud sound.

2:59:03BubblemanAll right. That reminds me of Rick James when he's like messing up Eddie Murphy's couch, and then they're asking him about it, and he says, No, I wouldn't mess my feet up on someone's couch. Who do you think I am? Yeah, I did that. I messed his couch up with my dirty feet. Like literally in one sentence, it was just awesome. You pulled a Rick James there, Johnny B.

2:59:22BubblemanSo this one's for you, bitch.

2:59:25SpeakerI like the, what's his name, impression of Rick James. The other black guy, I can't think of his name now all of a sudden. Anyway, no, not Eddie Murphy. Chappelle. Chappelle. Chappelle does a Rick James imitation that is absolutely fucking crazy. That's what I was talking about.

2:59:45BubblemanMy name is Rick James, bitch. Dude, trust me, Chappelle is the king. I'm so happy that he did fucking Saturday Night Live. He's one of my favorite comedians. And the fact that he's doing now three new original Netflix, two that have already been filmed, and one that will bring back some of his skits from Chappelle's show. I'm not going to lie, like comedy makes me feel good and laughing makes me feel good and I can never get enough of it and that's the one sort of type of entertainment that I really appreciate.

3:00:13BubblemanGood comedy like listening to Bill Burr or listening to Bill Hicks or Mitch Hedberg or, you know, a huge variety of these guys. I look forward to Chappelle's new comedy shows, that's for sure.

3:00:26SpeakerIt works the same way a good joint does. You just feel better afterwards.

3:00:31BubblemanYeah, and maybe a little sore too from laughing or coughing.

3:00:35Etienne FontanGets the dopamines flowing.

3:00:37BubblemanDopamines are flowing. Listen guys, I want to thank everyone for coming out as always. Episode 114 was a blast. Thank you, Etienne, for showing up early. Mr. Todd McCormick for turning red and coughing right at the end. I do appreciate that. Mark Scaldone, sorry I sent you the link late today. Johnny B's scraping his dry sift while I'm talking. Without mutinous Mike, that's okay. I love you, Johnny B.

3:01:02BubblemanWe are going to be getting together this Tuesday. Indra and Skunk Man Sam, always a pleasure. And let's thank Rob. We're thinking of you today. Hope everything went fine. Thanks, Chris Bennett, for coming in and dropping some historical context on us.

3:01:16SpeakerSmoke to Turkey.

3:01:18BubblemanYes, absolutely. We will blow smoke to Turkey for sure. And then thanks to Dr. Zach Walsh for coming in and telling us what he's doing with his studies. It was really an interesting church. I thank all the people watching. And, well, we'll see you next week on Hash Church. Peace out, everybody. Bye, Mark.

3:01:41SpeakerHave a great week, everyone.