Hash Church 84: Dabbing and Rosin Presses

0:01BubblemanYeah, hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to Hash Church 84. We're going to start it out with a little Richie Spice dabbing. Let me invite everyone in.

0:12SpeakerCome on! Come on! We dabbing?

0:31SpeakerDab, dab, dab, dab, dab, dab-a-dab-a-dab-in. It's a dab-a-doo time, a dab-a-doo time. We dab in. Dab, dab, dab, dab, dab, dab-a-dab-a-dab-in.

0:46BubblemanIt's a dab-a-doo time. Damn, we got 240 people already.

0:49SpeakerThe extractor. 100% banja. Cool and pretty like gold.

1:01BubblemanWelcome, Etienne. Welcome, brother. Hello, man. Yeah. We're dabbing today, Etienne. We got a little Richie Spice. Welcome, Hemp Guy. Starting it out with Richie Spice this morning.

1:17SpeakerWe're dabbing.

1:21BubblemanThere he is. Sam I Am.

1:25BubblemanAnyway, that's enough of that you guys. How are you doing? Welcome to Hash Church 84 everybody. 368, no sorry, 381 people in the room after less than a minute. And that's pretty fucking cool. Sweet. Sweet. You got the Hayes shirt on. I like it. I like it. My favorite strain and yours. Yeah, not going to lie, it's definitely one of my favorites. I got to smoke a little bit of some, I think it was super silver haze yesterday, water hash.

1:55BubblemanIt was, or no, flower rosin. It was flower rosin. Very nice, very nice stuff. Hey, welcome back, Wood Thrush. Welcome, Mark Scaldone. Morning, guys. We started it out. We already danced and sung a song, dude. You're late.

2:13BubblemanSo I saw you were doing some gardening with Marcel.

2:16Wood ThrushYeah, I went out to Marcel's place. Dude, the starship is amazing. Right? The whole vibe of that place is just, like, I just go out there when I feel bad. It makes me feel better just being there. Check it. Yeah, I'll be right back. I'll get mine.

2:35BubblemanYeah, this is the first one in the Starship in Every Garage. Marcel might come in and talk a little bit about it again today. He obviously started this project some time ago just trying to kind of offset the way we use money and the monetary currency and he wanted to create his own little... Sort of thing. And let me just mute John's mic because I'm already reverberating through it.

2:57BubblemanWe're going to mute your mic all day, John. I know you're going to do well. So are you, Mark Scaldone. So I don't have to mute both your mics all day. That would be very appreciative and welcome both of you to Hash Church along with D420K. And I hope everyone's having a fucking great day.

3:14SpeakerYes. Bomb rip. Start her off right. Mother lovers. Mother lovers. Mother lovers. That's a new one for you. Well, it's nicer than motherfuckers, I think, because there's a lot of people out there that aren't motherfuckers that are joining. And I bet you everybody loves mothers. Who doesn't are fucked. Well, to motherfuckers and non-motherfuckers. To all the mothers. Yes. Fucking right. Moms are awesome.

3:45BubblemanI'm just cleaning my bowl right now, so I got my sapphire on like a thousand, getting it all nice and tasty.

3:53SpeakerThat's what I'm trying. So I'm just holding up these nice big Congo buds that were growing for 15 and a half weeks by my buddy, and boy did he nail this. These smell amazing. Nice. Yeah, just like killed it. So everybody's like wanting to know, yeah, it was a friend of mine, 15 and a half weeks, and amazing. I'm going to squish some today. Yes, as you said.

4:14SpeakerI've got a little bit of Hatch, just a little. Aaron, can I borrow some? Some West Coast Concentrate, some D420K, a whole bunch of flavors and Terps from Blue River. I'm going to have a good session today with everybody.

4:31BubblemanTerp it up! I'm going to give a quick little mention for anyone that was wondering about a post I made in Rosintac a couple of days ago. I posted my buddy Maximilian Press called the Rosinator and of course it created a whole stir because Dan Lucas has a product called the Rosinator. Now I'm almost certain that both of these guys probably got the idea to create their machines while watching Hash Church episode 25 when we had Soil Grown on and really sort of pushed the popularity if you go back in the history of the internet here.

5:05BubblemanNot a lot of people were doing this whole rosin thing. Definitely no one was creating a machine for it. Soil Grown was using the hair straightener and eventually it turned into a Hash Church episode where D-Nail I think might have been the first ones to just grab the t-shirt presses and start reselling a Chinese made version that was slightly tweaked out. But I just wanted to kind of go over this a little bit because, you know, I already got people in chat saying that it's a troll and I've already bumped them out, but I wanted to let everyone know what was going on when they see something that says, Dan Lucas has the real Rosinator, Bubble Man's pushing a fake.

5:40BubblemanNot pushing a fake at all. Just... I was promoting a friend's version. Definitely don't want to get in the middle of a battle between these two guys. I put them both together so they could kind of... I find that if the two people that are having the problem get together and they eliminate the... What we do as a community sometimes is a really bummer thing, which is we naturally create the division.

6:05BubblemanRather than try to build the bridge, we like to throw some gasoline on it in a bunch of matches and burn that fucking thing down to the ground. And it happened with even myself and Mila. Sure, Mila was upset with me when I first came out with my bags, but it certainly wasn't her promoting the division as much as the people that loved us both. They felt the urge to promote the division back and forth out of their love for us, and what it really did was nothing good for the community.

6:31BubblemanSo hopefully Dan and Maximilian can get it together. They don't have the same product by any means, but they do both sell rosin presses. And on that note, I'd also like to thank Soil Grown Sal for fucking hooking me up like you wouldn't believe. I went to my mailbox the other day, and I had a box that weighed damn near 200 pounds, and it was my new rosin sasquatch press.

6:57BubblemanSo very stoked on that. It's sitting right over here. The thing is so fucking heavy, you would not believe. There, where we got? Where we got? There it is. There it is. Right there on the floor next to the sinkhole. Isn't it called the Sasquatch? Sasquish? Sasquash? So very cool. I'm stoked to use the Sasquash. I'm stoked for Dan Lucas to be successful in his Rosinator business.

7:21BubblemanI'm stoked for Maximilian and the Dabinator and the Rosinator to do good business. And yeah, there it is. There it is. Just had to say that and mention it because, well... Those guys were, there was some intensity in the groups that was starting and I just see that the community somehow, we naturally want to divide and pick like, oh I'm going for this guy, I'm going for this, it's like a fight right away, they're going into the octagon and it always doesn't have to be a fight.

7:48BubblemanSometimes it can be a session and they can be going in to hit the bull rather than hit each other. So just my two cents I wanted to say this morning about that.

8:00SpeakerAppreciate it. Good job.

8:03BubblemanYes, well, here we are on Hash Church 84, 84 weeks later. It's been an incredible little journey just gathering with you guys every week here and talking about the things that we love. Rosinator, Rosmaker, who cares if both work? Greed fucks everything up. There is room for everyone. Yes, a lot of negativity in the post about BHO that you deleted from many, including Sam. I don't remember what one I deleted about BHO.

8:34BubblemanI honestly don't. I didn't actually delete any post about BHO. I think sometimes people assume that I do things because I have other moderators in my rooms that help me clean things up. But, yeah, I think it's time for some blowing smoke towards the Vatican here. Well, we're...

8:52Dr Mark ScialdoneMark, did you see that list of yields that that guy posted? List of yields?

8:58BubblemanNo, I don't believe I did.

8:59Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so on one of the Facebook pages, I want to think it's just the Advanced Rosin Tech discussion.

9:06BubblemanOh, I don't talk on the, I'm not in Advanced Rosin Tech. I left the group. I found it to be extremely dramatic, and it just turned into a huge thing for me, so I'm not in that group anymore, actually.

9:17Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, it was a fellow in there who posted a list of yields. I just found it really interesting if you look at some of the trends of which strains were more higher yielding than others and just if anybody else had any comments on that. Girl Scout Cookie, it appears to be the highest yield product. With his particular data set. And he's got all the parameters on the post itself.

9:46SpeakerMark, are you talking about weed or water hash or dry sift or what to be made into Rosen?

9:53Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, hey Sam. I think it's bud. So the way I read it is that these were all just sort of... Thank you for joining us.

10:29Dr Mark ScialdoneBut the cookies, again, seem to be a really high yielder, I think in like 23%, if I remember correctly. I'll pull up the data and post in a second so we can discuss it.

10:41SpeakerYep. Well, one thing that we've seen with hash making is when you make water hash, when you make dry sift, and whether you make rosin out of it or even BHO extracts, etc., the yields Are dramatically different for each variety.

11:04BubblemanWell, I was hoping on having my air compressor in. I get it. Tomorrow I actually ordered the 15-gallon 200 PSI DeWalt, the one that Soil Grown himself uses on this press. And maybe next week I'll be pressing a little bit. I'll tell you, there was a video on Instagram. It wasn't Soil Grown's. It was like the Sasquatch rosin press account. And there is a video in there.

11:28BubblemanThey have over 13,000 likes on it. He's obviously squishing hash. I have never seen hash drip rosin spew out of a press like that video.

11:39Dr Mark ScialdoneGo try to find it if you can because... Yeah, their Instagram video is extremely compelling.

11:45BubblemanIt's next level shit, dude. They must... I don't know if they have like...

11:48Dr Mark ScialdoneIt really is. And the color...

11:50BubblemanI don't know what they got, but...

11:52Dr Mark ScialdoneMark, I imagine the flavor, just because the color is so light, it's almost like a blondish color. I mean, it's really, it doesn't seem like you're getting a whole lot of thermal degradation. But yeah, if I go through this chart here, so this was a guy named Simon Pickett posting on the Advanced Rosin Tech Discussion Group in Facebook, and he showed... It was a six-ton press at 200 degrees Fahrenheit, two by three stainless steel plates for about 30 seconds or until the action stops.

12:27Dr Mark ScialdoneNever over a minute. Never over a minute. And he's shown some of the strains were raspberry kush, Agent R in Hindu kush, uppercut, random THC bomb, blackberry kush. Hello OG, Tangerine Power. I'll just go through some of the higher yielder percents. Tangerine Power was a 20.96%. Girl Scout Cookie was 22.41%. Hawaiian Dutch was 21.52%. And, you know, good strains, high-yielding strains, and low-yielding strains, too. I mean, here's a...

13:08Dr Mark ScialdonePurple Chemdog, only 8.4%. Cheese, only 9.52%. So again, I think there's certainly something to be said about not just the genetics itself, but certainly probably about moisture content, I would imagine.

13:25BubblemanOh, yeah. How well the herb was grown, whether the maturity of the trichomes were able to go right to the end, and most importantly, The gentleman or the woman who's doing the actual extracting and the measuring and the weighing, there's little bits of human error that can be done in there and you can get off on some numbers as well. So it's definitely, it's cool to see and it would be neat to find some generalizations with certain strains.

13:52BubblemanI mean I've found it in hash making over the years, small ones, but what I found was really that Even with an amazing strain like the BC hash plant, which is just, you know, a 20 plus percent yielder every time, you could get someone growing it improperly and then suddenly be wondering why you're only getting like 11 percent or 10 percent return, and it was just from different people growing it.

14:17Wood ThrushSam, I've got a question for you about a strain that I picked up, hashberry. The story that I got was it came from Haight-Ashbury. Is it a hash plant or not?

14:30SpeakerI've never heard of hash berry, to be honest.

14:34BubblemanHash berry from hate ash berry. Hash berry. Yes, hash berry.

14:39SpeakerI've heard of it, but I don't know who bred it. I really don't know its history, to be honest.

14:46Wood ThrushOkay. Thank you.

14:50BubblemanPeople talking about marriage. This is Hash Church. Oh, boy. What do we got going on in the chat? You got to keep it up on the chat as we get more and more well-known. Hey, welcome, Todd McCormick, to the chat room today.

15:00Todd MccormickGood morning, everybody.

15:02BubblemanAs we become more known, we'll acquire more trolls, and we have to keep on the trolls, of course, because they tend to dominate the conversation and direct it into the wrong direction. So we'll just...

15:17SpeakerYou'd think there was a bunch of bridges out there with all those trolls. I'm telling you.

15:23BubblemanYeah, I've got to find out the link to that Sasquatch Press video that I said. It's on their Instagram, and it's like Sasquatch Rosin Press or something. And it's about 15 or 20 videos in, but it is definitely Sasquatch Rosin Press. And in fact, why don't we just do it up like this? Why don't we just show you guys what I'm talking about?

15:50BubblemanAll right, let me see it, Mark.

15:54BubblemanJust some rosin getting squished out of some plates. Oh, look at the color on it. Right at the end, look how it comes out. It's coming out so thick, it's got that dark color, but as it thins out, you really see that golden color coming out right at the end.

16:11Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about, Mark. It's beautiful, right? It's like melted caramel.

16:18BubblemanHow big is that device? That device is not that big. I have one right here on my floor I could potentially show you.

16:26Wood ThrushIs it the really heavy one? It's heavy as fuck. You see this little thing right here? Yeah, it looks like I-beams. It's welded I-beams.

16:36BubblemanI'm still damn near crippled from carrying it down from my driveway. The UPS guy couldn't even get it out of his truck. I went and got a board and laid it down and then we slid it off of the truck down the board. I carried it up myself from like three flights of stairs and about 150 to 200 foot length of my house and holy shit, I am like, here I've got pulled muscles in my legs, I've got pulled muscles in my chest.

17:02BubblemanIt's like rosin is dangerous when you have to move the press. That's about the main danger to...

17:10Dr Mark ScialdoneYes. Make your meds to alleviate your pain now, right? Exactly.

17:14BubblemanHey, one time I do have a registered forum. It's just been getting revamped, trying to get it all reconnected with Hash Church and all my social medias. It's Full Melt Bubble, and it's going to be going, being completely revamped along with Bubble Bag and Fresh Headies, kind of just doing something different with the websites, and we've been working on it for six months, so it'll be nice to see it come to fruition.

17:40BubblemanI have unfortunately not done yoga in a while. I'm kind of like a dumb guy. We wait until we're in crippling pain before we do yoga, and then when we feel good, we're like, I don't need yoga until you're Michael laying on your back and you're unable to move, and then you're sitting there thinking, fuck, yoga might be a good idea. I don't know.

17:56SpeakerMaybe I'll try that.

17:58BubblemanI should have called D420K to help me. I should have, but the fucking guy went back home. He's like 10 hours away.

18:04SpeakerI would have done it. I would have done it. You could have just carried it on your shoulder. I would have. No problem.

18:10BubblemanDude, I'm telling you, it is a heavy piece of machinery.

18:13SpeakerIt's coming right now. I can't wait to fucking get it here, man. It's exciting. Christmas time. Bone rip.

18:24BubblemanYeah. I saw also Matt Barron is waiting on one as well, so I guess a lot of the BC guys have... Have supported the Sasquatch press industry. Obviously the guy's doing it up. He's one of the people, one of the main people that definitely popularized and brought this process to light. So shout out to Soil Grown for... Fuck, I still go back and watch episode 25 every once in a while.

18:48BubblemanIt's kind of a historical hash church if you actually go back and you look at the dates. And you can go back through social media and you can really see that that Hash Church episode was the birth of rosin presses. Before that, everyone was, they were hair straightening and people started making machines after that.

19:05SpeakerThat's history, man. Yeah. Cody was just asking me here about what you used to, if you wanted to start pressing rosin, go get yourself a red line hair straightener.

19:19BubblemanYep.

19:20SpeakerAnd a quick grip. Quick Grip Clamp. This is what I've been doing lately. This works really well. And hey, it's like under a few bucks, man. And you can start pressing for awesome tomorrow. Or like now.

19:34Wood ThrushOne thing I would add, get an infrared heat thermometer. They're not that expensive. You can pick them up at the hardware store. Dial in that temperature because I got the wet to straight one and I was sizzling buds. I wasn't getting any return because it was vaporizing it straight off the hair straightener. So temp really, really does matter.

19:55SpeakerI think Soil Grown was saying the temperatures and the proper degrees on the last episode, wasn't he?

20:03BubblemanAnd the moistures as well, absolutely. I think he's learned over the last year how important moisture content is, and having too much is a big no-no, and having too little is a big no-no. It's a sweet spot. It's a sweet spot, and you can obviously go past it and go before it, but once you get to that spot, most people are going to be pretty... And you know, I think it's going to be pretty much a properly cured product.

20:31SpeakerIt's what's going to get you the best, the proper moisture, all that sort of stuff. It boils down to the proper grown, proper cured product, period. Nice little snappy weeding inside, but still gooey. This squish is the best. I really found that one.

20:46Wood Thrush60% the right humidity.

20:50SpeakerI wouldn't even know what the humidity was. I've been using these a little bit.

20:53Todd MccormickI definitely would like to say when Tony and I were here pressing buds a year ago, I had all these jars of bud that had been stored at 62% with the Boveda packs, and it pressed excellent because it didn't have too much moisture, but it certainly didn't have too little. It was still very turpy. It still had body, but it was perfectly cured. It wasn't wet cannabis by any means, but it was just So nice, we got great yields out of it.

21:21SpeakerThat's all, just watching over, I've been using these Boveda packs, definitely, and I've noticed the difference with my rosin press in the last week, how much better it has been by using these in my lead.

21:31Todd MccormickYeah, I'm like the biggest fan of those things now, like there's not very many products that come along that really have such a positive impact on my life, but those things definitely have. A lot of it's because I smoke pure and it has to be, it just has to be perfectly cured to be able to burn right, you know.

21:49Wood Thrush100% agree.

21:52BubblemanJust going off with Stinley, Stinley thinks it's a big ego thing to say that Hash Church episode 25 was where the hash presses start. I'm not saying it was me, I'm saying Soil Grown came on on Hash Church episode 25. No one was using that I know of. Presses to make rosin. If you want to show us a video or a photo prior to that episode, we'll by all means shout those people out.

22:18BubblemanI think some people just love to be the devil's advocate and have to disagree with anything anyone says, but that's about all. I'll comment on that.

22:27Todd MccormickNo way, Mark. I totally disagree. What's that? I don't know. I disagree too.

22:34Todd MccormickI guess we're all contrary. There you go, Mark. There, I disagree.

22:39BubblemanTodd's the devil's advocate. What's that one? Todd is the devil's advocate. But he's the good devil's advocate, not the idiot devil's advocate. That's my job.

22:55BubblemanOh, I've got to turn my bong down. I need a rip. We've been in here for 20 minutes, and I have not had a rip yet, so this is... What's the flavor of your first bong rip there, Mr. Marcus? Well, I might go for a little collaboration. Yesterday at the... I was at Flav421's yesterday, his... His little beautiful daughter had a birthday party. I want to give her a shout out.

23:28BubblemanHappy belated birthday, Shari. And it was just wonderful. Corey the Glass Blower was there and Stratus was there and Ro from High Integrity Glass Art was there and he had a whole bunch of cool people. We were dabbing it up. I actually did a little video of dabbing on the Pacha Mama, this insane, ridiculous piece That Corey and Stratus put together. I've never been more afraid of hitting a piece in my life.

23:51BubblemanIt is the most delicate, breakable, insane fucking piece. It's definitely like the piece that 90% of people don't get to hit. You can't have anything around your neck. You can't have... So go check out that video. But we were making these little collaborations. We were doing a little bit of this rosin, a little purple candy rosin. A little bit of Green Crack God from West Coast Concentrate.

24:16BubblemanAnd then I was dipping it in Afgui Terps. And holy shit, I'm not going to lie, it was really an incredible combination. Every once in a while you'll get one that's just such a great combination. So I think I'm going to hit that this morning.

24:33SpeakerThe rest of you guys. Terps, Mark. By far my favorite. Like what you just said and what I'm doing is exactly the exact same thing.

24:44SpeakerRed Congo Terps, and Temple OG, Bubble Hash from West Coast Boys. Fucking killer. Wow.

25:02BubblemanYeah. That's it right there in a nutshell. All my buddies who are even hash makers are all puffing West Coast concentrate now. D420K, Johnny B, Roe from High Integrity Glass Art. Everyone knows where the fire is. It's at the West Coast Concentrate. We're all hitting it right now, guys. You fucking, you have arrived.

25:26SpeakerSpeaks for itself. Look at everybody burning it.

25:31BubblemanAnd hash makers. Hash makers that grow and make their own hash still hitting this shit. That's fucking, that tells you how good it is.

25:40SpeakerWhat is it, Mark? Is it rosin?

25:42BubblemanIt's a combination. You know, they make beautiful bubble hash. They also make really nice rosin, so I can't get the camera to focus in on it, but the pictures are on my Instagram. It's five and six star, without a shadow of a doubt.

26:01SpeakerThat's actually what I have, too, rosin.

26:05BubblemanNice. What kind of roses are you getting?

26:07SpeakerI think it's from the Colorado Boys. It's a variety called Star Killer. Oh, yeah.

26:14BubblemanI thought Star Killer was... Rare Dankness. Oh, yeah, it is. It's Rare Dankness. I think it's Rare Dankness. I was thinking of someone else there. Constantine's got Star Bud from Germany there.

26:30Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's got to reach his Rare Dankness line, but it might be grown by someone else and processed by someone else.

26:36SpeakerI wouldn't be surprised since Rare Dankness is not over here in Amsterdam.

26:41Dr Mark ScialdoneScott is actually, they're putting together a really state-of-the-art facility to do large-scale production, and that's just getting started now as we speak.

26:51SpeakerWell, I'm just happy that you can get Roslyn.

26:59Dr Mark ScialdoneYou can make rosin too, Sam.

27:01SpeakerMake it yourself. Yeah, well, to do that I'd have to grow plants and I'm retired and I just grew a few in my window but that's it. I don't have greenhouses full of plants to do something to. Soon come, soon come. I've been pressing all morning.

27:23Wood ThrushThe amount of flower that's grown in Oregon now is ridiculous.

27:28Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd now the Yeah, like a few episodes, I don't pick up a bag without pressing a nugget out of it. Right. That's just the standard protocol now. I agree much.

27:45SpeakerYeah, Mark, I squish everything. Everything.

27:51BubblemanWhy not? I would say that the only reason why not is because I prefer hash over the oil high. So for myself, I like to squish a little bit, but I certainly don't squish everything. My five and six star hash, it goes down in my bowl exactly like that as five and six star hash.

28:09SpeakerThat's a great phrase that I dry sift most of my stuff and then I squish stuff and make hash.

28:16BubblemanRecanting on Hash Church, 84.

28:22BubblemanTime for a little break here. Everyone's quiet.

28:26SpeakerWe've got to kind of... And if you squish really good dry sift, not just B quality, but really, really good dry sift, if you squish it and make rosin out of it, does it end up with more or less smell and aromas than the dry sift itself?

28:54Dr Mark ScialdoneIs that a question?

28:55SpeakerYeah, it was just a question for anybody that makes lots of rosin.

29:02SpeakerWell, the dry sift is far more better than... I squish a lot of my sift, but I never squish anything that's already like a five or a six star. No, I understand what you're doing. You're creaming it. Yeah. It's a smart approach.

29:22Dr Mark ScialdoneI have a different question. Do you think that rosin production is actually economically viable and scalable for oil production? Absolutely.

29:34SpeakerAll you have to be able to do is to grow cannabis outdoors by the hectare or by the acre in America, and you better believe it can be because it can be dry sifted and then made into rosin. Easy.

29:52Wood ThrushHow big should I grow these plants, Scott, man?

29:57SpeakerWhat plants are you talking about? If I was able to grow acres of flowers... Oh, I myself would grow as big as I could, like Christmas tree size.

30:08Wood ThrushI mean, California... Well, they're way bigger than that in Oregon now. I mean, I harvested in October, and we were pulling 22 pounds of wet flower off of a plant. Yeah, what was it cleaned and dried? I don't know the exact numbers. I was there for harvest.

30:25SpeakerYeah, well, wet weight is not so relevant, to be honest. You don't sell water. You divide by four or five. At least.

30:33BubblemanYeah.

30:34SpeakerAt least. If it's real leafy and stuff like that, then you have to divide by more.

30:39BubblemanAnd then you divide by even more for resin.

30:41SpeakerRight, and it's 80% water weight. That's the way I would say it. Like three quarters.

30:48Wood ThrushI was just wondering if I had the capabilities, should I try to get them as big as possible or should I try to keep them easier to manage and just have more plants?

30:59SpeakerIt depends. If you have machinery to help you plant and harvest, you better have the size plants that the machinery can handle in an easy manner.

31:10Wood ThrushWe're still a few years away from that, I think.

31:15SpeakerWell, it's nothing new. They've been doing it in, well, in Morocco they don't use machinery. In Lebanon they did. Afghanistan they did.

31:27BubblemanWell, we've got 934 people joining us today after only 30 minutes in the room. That's pretty awesome. I love that people wake up, or maybe they're in Europe and they don't have to wake up because it's already, you know, the middle or the end of the day, but... It's very cool that everyone makes their way in here. The chat is just popping. Everyone's chatting it up. They've probably been in there for a couple of hours prior to Hash Church, so that's pretty damn sweet.

31:53BubblemanAnd here in Vancouver, our city has decided to fine the dispensaries that did not get the special license. And the special license to stay open was hard to get. Very few licenses were given out. $30,000 licenses to pay for them. And everyone else is getting fined. $250 a day, which doesn't sound like that much considering the profit margin that these dispensaries make. A lot of them will make $250 profit off 2 grams of shatter.

32:24BubblemanThat's the kind of markups that they're doing up here. So it'll be interesting to see how it goes. That's about a $93,000 annual fine, which would be $63,000 more than the $30,000 fee to pay and get the permit, which is a provincial mechanism that's non-protected by the federal mechanism. They're separate from one another. So it'll be interesting to see.

32:47SpeakerIt just raises the prices, $93,000 a year at each place. Yeah.

32:53BubblemanIt's a tax. You're paying taxes, guys. Well, we pay tax already. It's kind of a bummer that they're attacking the dispensaries. I mean, I understand that a lot of them opened very recently and are just like pure profit-driven machines, but at the same time, it's like even if it is a pure profit-driven machine, if people want to go there and support it and buy the product, whether it's for recreational or medicine.

33:17SpeakerI don't think it's very good either, but it's better than $1,000 a day. Oh, yeah.

33:23BubblemanI'm telling you.

33:24SpeakerDidn't Hillary's club win her permit to stay open?

33:29BubblemanYes, they won. They were too close to a school and they went and they did some ordinance, city ordinance gathering meeting and they got further permission to stay open even though they're close to a school.

33:44SpeakerYeah, and they're at 19 years I think today, so congratulations Hillary.

33:48Bubbleman19 years. I cannot believe that was 19 years ago that... But that all went down. Unbelievable.

34:24BubblemanBasically created an almost legacy for herself here in Vancouver and in Canada.

34:31SpeakerShe's a very brave woman who always realized it was about the patients and never forgot that. And that's always been a beacon for many of us, especially here in California. I mean, we're getting ready to come up on our 17th year here at Berkeley Patients Group. But being almost 20 years, I mean, that is fucking iron. That is some They've been tempered through it all, so much respect.

34:55BubblemanAnd refusing to take profit. Hillary never profited from the Compassion Club. She, if anything, suffered and was living in damn near poverty for the majority of the time that she ran it. Thank you for watching.

35:28BubblemanAnd a lot of people often would say, oh, that's so generous of you. You know, wow, you're such a great person. And I would say, you know what? No, got to give it over to Hillary once again because I was giving away her profit margin that she would refuse when introducing me to incredible growers all over BC. And the way the business worked back then, that is if you introduce someone to someone while you were able to step in the middle and take a little bit off each pound, Hillary never accepted a penny off of it.

35:54BubblemanShe used all profit and... That just made me think so strong and it made me want to give my profits to the club as well. Back then, keep in mind, the club was terminally ill people. This was 1997-98. It was a terminal group. You weren't able to come to the BC Compassion Club back then with headaches or arthritis. It was really reserved for the sickest of the sick.

36:23BubblemanBecause of it, a lot of members passed away in the first three, four years. It was pretty sad to have actual people that you got to know that you were helping, that you saw gain hope and that you saw gain a better quality of life, and then to have them pass away was pretty intense. So I just got to give mad props to Hillary Black, founder of the BC Compassion Club.

36:47BubblemanI invited her in here today, but... I didn't give her any notice or anything. I just sent her the link. So she doesn't usually come in when I do that. But if you're watching, Hillary, we love you. You're a good person.

36:59SpeakerEd, what was the year that Dennis Perrone started his first medical dispensary thing in San Francisco? Well, I mean, it goes back to the, he had the Big Top back in the 70s. No, no, I'm not talking Big Top. That was recreational that transmitted, I would say that he, Right after the Compassionate Use Act in 96. Okay, so he didn't have anything before that. Never been Big Top.

37:30SpeakerDennis has always been and was the main motivator or at least the main cannabis guy in San Francisco. He was the main activist. He was organizers. You have to understand people. When he had the Big Top, the police in San Francisco raided it and shot him. No, I went to Big Top. I know it. Okay, but you have, but you've got to understand, Sam, a lot of people have no idea about the history of the Big Top and what it was and what it used to be.

37:57SpeakerEven to this day, a lot of people are like, what do you mean? And basically, for those who don't know, he used to have an apartment in San Francisco, which was basically, correct me if I'm wrong, Sam, it was a large den that had pounds or kilos of cannabis and In areas with samples of joints on top of them that you could sample what the product was and then you could buy the product.

38:23SpeakerDifferent kinds of weed, different kinds of hash, also psychedelics. Yes, and what did you get there by chance? I was actually there with my buddy who was actually selling the weed.

38:42BubblemanOf course. That's awesome.

38:44SpeakerOf course.

38:45Dr Mark ScialdoneYou can buy psychedelics?

38:50SpeakerAt the time, yes. You could go there and buy blotter or sometimes occasionally mescaline sulfate or psilocybin, either the dried mushrooms or sometimes even pure psilocybin or psilobin. Nice. The white powder? Yes. Correct. What year was that, Sam? Uh... Let me think. It was before I came over here, so it must have been, Big Top was open in the, maybe the 70s, but for sure the 80s, the early 80s.

39:27SpeakerYeah, very early. And then after he got shut down and he did his time, he's always been active. I basically, it wasn't until I got, when I was here in... Doing rallies in 93 and 94, he was always around main organizer for anything in San Francisco as well as we used to have the California normal meetings where we would get together and discuss ideas or, you know, pre-concepts to 215, etc.

39:58SpeakerHe would always host at his house and always have just oodles of the best fucking pot, you know. It was always good to go see Dennis, always. Oodles! Last time I saw Dennis was here in Leiden. He came to an IACM meeting, and yeah, we were smoking some of my ash. He still, I believe, has his house in San Francisco, but he spends most of his time up north.

40:28SpeakerBut, you know, great guy, did 215, has always been a main activist for San Francisco, and I have to say, since he left San Francisco... Thank you for watching.

41:10SpeakerA lot of friends love pot, and he always had great pot, so he always had great friends. So, you know, I know he was a key contributor to any rallies. Once he put the word out that, you know, go to this, be here at that, people showed up en masse, and we have not had any type of presence like that in a long time. Now it's completely splintered.

41:34SpeakerSan Francisco in its own self is its own set of chaos with... Various activists all vying for, you know, profit margins and profit areas for the most part. So it is what it is. You know, as I said, I think a few weeks ago, you know, we can't, we were just trying to raise this child. We weren't sure where this child of cannabis was necessarily going to go.

41:57SpeakerSo it's interesting to see. And as I open up my IACM this morning, the first news there is the government of Canada intends to legalize cannabis in 2017. So... You guys are getting some steam there on the international community.

42:15BubblemanIndeed, indeed. 951 people watching church right now and Todd McCormick is back in the room. Do you agree with what we just said, Todd? Thank you again.

42:31BubblemanCan't see you, Todd. Oh, here we go. God bless the dead. I love crazy people. Have you been approached by the Illuminati yet, Bubble Man?

42:41SpeakerBecause the Illuminati approaches people.

42:43BubblemanYeah, yeah, yeah. They called me up a couple of days ago. They asked me a few really weird, esoteric questions. I apparently failed miserably, and they're not... I'm out. I'm out.

42:57Wood ThrushI'm pretty sure they would rather us disappear. I don't think the Illuminati would want us around anyway.

43:03BubblemanI'm not sure the Illuminati is like really stoked on love and abundance and radicalness.

43:08Wood ThrushDeath and destruction is more what I think they're about.

43:12BubblemanI've had a few people be like, oh, like, that shirt you wore is an Illuminati shirt. Oh my God. I saw the thing behind your desk and it was an Illuminati symbol and I'm like, oh my God. Now don't get me wrong, I've also read all of this information and I found it really unique and interesting and I don't believe that it's impossible to think that an intelligent group of humans have been gathering and stocking knowledge for the last many thousands of years and passing it on.

43:39BubblemanWe saw it happen with biblical times and the Bible and other holy scriptures. That's it.

44:10SpeakerSo they're interluminati then. It's just the super rich?

44:15Wood ThrushThat's what I think it is. I think it's that the 1% of the 1% is controlling everything else.

44:22SpeakerNah, they're just all fooling themselves.

44:25Wood ThrushSo we who use cannabis and grow cannabis take away from their power because they can't control us.

44:34BubblemanWell, whatever the agenda is, it definitely dislikes cannabis. And whatever you want to call the agenda, whether you call it the U.S. government, or whether you call it the shape-shifting reptilian agenda, to quote one David Icke, it really matters not. It's an energy. There's definitely people out there that will put you in jail for smoking a plant. We know that's not a conspiracy. Todd can attest, and as can other people.

45:02BubblemanBut at the same time...

45:05SpeakerWhat's that? They took that really seriously.

45:08Todd MccormickYou know, I honestly think that the whole struggle against marijuana has been economic since its inception because when they were trying to pass things like nylon and a whole host of other products that conflicted with the stuff we got from hemp and cannabis, I think they figured that people were going to be slow to adapt new technologies and this was a way of forcing them to adapt to new technology.

45:30Todd MccormickAnd realiztically, it's economical empowerment that I think was what they really were worried about.

45:36BubblemanWell, that's what cannabis has been for, I bet you, the majority of the people even in this room at one point in time. When I got into cannabis, I was kind of young. I was learning to work a slave wage. I was kind of like, wow, I really don't like this. I was eating a lot of psychedelic mushrooms and growing mushrooms and they just That voice just seemed to lean me away from this model of work over to this model which was like, I love these plants and I love these fungi and I have this ability to create them and to find them and then I have them and what could I do with them?

46:07BubblemanWell, I could I could sell them to my friends that don't have them or trade them for things that I don't have. And suddenly, in a very short period of time, I suddenly had a lot more money than I knew what to do with rather than I'm going to go work for $200 for a week of like 40 hours of my labor. It was just no bueno.

46:31BubblemanAnd a lot of people in the cannabis industry have success via... Unfortunately, the prohibition model, you know, it's another thing that sort of gave us, it's a weird kind of way how they got us in a sense, Todd, because we were not a part of their system yet. By not being a part of their system, we were still a part of their system, obviously, feeding their jails by getting busted and getting ratted on and all the other horrible ways that there are to end up in that position.

47:01Todd MccormickI think we're all part of our system, like it or not, you know, and some people may be wealthy and more controlling and other people may be poor and it seems like more heartfelt, but we're still all earthlings at the end of the day.

47:12BubblemanThat is for sure. We are sharing the globe, although I even see people denying that on Facebook. I love the flat, the flat earth.

47:21SpeakerYo, what is up with these flat earth motherfuckers? Don't you know the rivers would roll? My friends in Boston have gone to mental illness recently and threw their Facebook posts on The flat earth and trying to show me how angles and...

47:34Wood ThrushIt's lithium. It's all caused by lithium. It's lithium poisoning from cell phones.

47:40BubblemanWell, I'll tell you one thing. The one thing all of these things do is really what they do is they question reality and it's like, yeah, okay, like when people start bringing up the shape of the earth or the, you know, the moon and where the moon is and whether we've ever landed on it, like it's... It is completely impossible for me to say whether we have or we haven't or whether something is or it isn't because I've never been removed from it to be able to see it.

48:07BubblemanI've had prosthetics, cameras, and spaceships do it for me, but those are easy manipulations as well. I think it's just the fact that it's, I mean I love questioning reality. I love questioning authority. But it's definitely a borderline sort of... The stick can tip as you get too far over into La La Land and you're starting to believe that the entire Earth is a flat disk.

48:32SpeakerMarcus, I can actually believe that the Earth is flat. It's the oceans being flat that I have trouble with.

48:46BubblemanTodd, exactly.

48:49Todd MccormickIt's killing me. You know, I'm going to stay in the school of Galileo, and I'm going to go against the church and say I think the earth is not flat, and I'm going to stick with that.

48:58BubblemanAll right. I like that. The school of Galileo. Galileo knew some shit.

49:02Todd MccormickYeah, he also, what, died in home confinement from the Catholic Church, right? Yeah, exactly. That's a nice way to go.

49:11BubblemanYou want to be careful back in the day when you're talking shit about the Catholic Church going against them in any way. DNA Skate Deck? This is not a DNA Skate Deck. This is a Ripper Seed Skate Deck. For those of you that keep asking about it, Ripper Hayes. Check them out. Didn't you get that for your son? I did. Absolutely got it for my son. Yep.

49:39BubblemanHe's got one skateboard deck that he's skating right now, but he's definitely going to skate that one day, guaranteed. That's why it's sitting there waiting for him.

49:52Dr Mark ScialdoneMake sure your health insurance is paid.

49:55BubblemanWhoa.

49:57Todd MccormickI'm Canadian. We don't pay for that shit. Ah, that was a great one.

50:01Dr Mark ScialdoneBoy kidding.

50:02SpeakerWhat are you doing, Mark? Bomb rip? I'm doing a bomb rip. You're doing a bomb rip?

50:12BubblemanWhat a turp dip. How about 989 people? We're almost at 1,000 today, and it's not even 10 o'clock. Very cool. Love all of you guys that tune in every week. We try to keep a nice steady flow going. Obviously, we pay attention to the chat if you guys have questions and want to direct the chat. We try to get people in to talk about different things. So it was really great having Woodthrow come in last week and break it down what his situation was.

50:41BubblemanAnd we're happy to have him back sharing the panel with us again this Sunday.

50:44SpeakerYou know, it was a pretty powerful story last week, man. Absolutely.

50:53BubblemanAnd to think of how many of those stories are out there, I can imagine that... Hey, how about a shout out to Uptek Woodthrow for his kindness and generosity?

51:05Wood ThrushHoly shit. They reached out in an amazing way. I don't know exactly how much they want me to share. They did say, give them a shout out if...

51:18Wood ThrushAnd opportunity to do that. So yeah, definitely give them a shout out. They're sending us 50 units. And they said that they will help us in the future as well. So as their new stuff comes out, we're going to get to try it out, which is amazing. So thank them very much.

51:35BubblemanThat's Gary from Uptek, the Omicron creator, and Sam High, who works for him, donating 50 Omicron pens to the Grow for Vets after watching Woodthrow's story and being inspired by it. You know, I was inspired by that. I want to send you guys some bubble bags so that you have the ability to make a beautiful water hash. And I think it's a good thing about radical openness.

51:59BubblemanIt's not about promoting a company. It's not about... It's about, like... I love the idea of giving and helping, and when we have patient stories and they come in and they tell us about great organizations or groups, I love the idea that the community is going to stand up and say, well, I'm going to give 50 pens, well, I'm going to give some bubble bags, well, I'm going to, you know, all of a sudden it's like we have this power.

52:19BubblemanIt's why I have the donation button set up on the YouTube page. Any of those donations that come in will 100% go to people like the Grow for Vets, to people like different organizations, to people like Colton Turner, who might not be able to afford his medicine that week, or whoever has come in and shared stories with us. I love the idea of letting the community give back and kick back and help them.

52:44BubblemanAnd I, of course, want to be a part of that. So we'll talk later as well so I can give a little donation to the Grow for Vets cause as well.

52:54Wood ThrushThank you very much. And anybody who's watching, there's a donation button as well on the Grow for Vets website.

53:04Wood ThrushI hate soliciting. I really don't like it. But you give me your help. So if you are willing and able, please help. And if you don't feel comfortable donating to a large organization like that, just go out and find a vet and say, hey, here, let me help you get the medicine you need so that you can have a better day tomorrow. So that's why I'm here.

53:28Wood ThrushThat's why I'm doing what I do and that's why every chance I get I grow as many plants as I can because if I can help one of my brothers out then that's what I'm going to do. So thank everyone for the support because we all need it. So thank you again. And what's the website that they can go do that on?

53:47BubblemanThey know my Bubble Man's World website. Where can they find that Grow for Vets donation button?

53:53Wood ThrushFacebook is probably the easiest way. Go to the Facebook page. Go for Vets on Facebook. From there, there's a place to sign up and also to donate. So that would probably be the easiest bet.

54:05BubblemanYeah, dude, well, don't feel like you're soliciting at all in that sense because, you know, it's kind of like the right thing to do. It is unity in the community, and when people watch these stories, you know, they're touched by them. The first thing you feel as a human being that has empathy and compassion is that you're like, You're like, you want to be a part of it.

54:24BubblemanYou want to help. You want to do something to be a part of it and make sure that... It's not every day in life that you know exactly what the right thing to do is. So when you do, it's nice to do it.

54:38Wood ThrushWhen you wake up in the morning and realize you're living the dream you had, you know you've made it, regardless of what it is. And literally, since last Sunday, I have been living in a cloud because... I am getting to do exactly what I want to do for the rest of my life right now, so.

54:56SpeakerAbsolutely.

54:57Wood ThrushI couldn't be happier.

54:58SpeakerThat's awesome, man. Thumbs up, dude. That's awesome.

55:03BubblemanWelcome, Tony. How are you doing this morning?

55:05TonyI'm good. I'm good, brother. How are you doing this morning? How's the whole panel doing?

55:11BubblemanWe're doing pretty good. We were just kind of giving a shout out to Gary from Uptech who donated 50 pens to the Grow for Vets organization. And I just, you know, I'm not mentioning it because... Just because Gary's an awesome guy or because I'm trying to promote his product, but I love the way it resonates. 50 pens. The guy donates 50 pens. It just makes me want to donate shit and do good.

55:39BubblemanSo fucking props to you for that, Gary. That's the shit I want to see coming out of Hash Church.

55:45Wood ThrushWhen we spoke, he was like, we wanted to do a vet event on 420. But we didn't know how to do it to make sure a vet was actually getting to use the unit and it wasn't going to go to a brother's cousin's second ex-girlfriend or whatever. So he was like, this is a way that I can guarantee a vet is going to get to use this to get clean medicine.

56:11Wood ThrushAnd I was like, thank you so much. Because after it was Sam that came on and actually destroyed the pens, right? Yeah. Yes, after I watched that, I was like, because I was thinking about getting one for myself, and I was like, like you, or like him, I was like, what are these things being made out of? Because they're coming from China, the batteries fall apart. I was like, this is freaking me out.

56:37Wood ThrushAnd then when John started ripping them apart, I was like, yeah, I'm going to be real careful on my first purchase. I went out and got one. It's a clone of the one they make with the ceramic disc in it, but once I got that, I was like, I feel safe using this unit.

56:54BubblemanYeah. Yeah, I'm in the same boat, I'm not going to lie, you know, like being so obsessed with the surface area of my nail, you know, hitting out of sapphire these days, just being really obsessed with the nail and the surface and the glass and the no plastic and the no this and the no that. Sam just hit me up in a private message and he was like, well, what, you know, like, what's up?

57:14BubblemanLike, you guys are super obsessed with the nails that you hit off, but you'll just smoke off of any Chinese rebranded nail? And I was just kind of like, uh... Fuck, yeah, I guess so. That's weird, eh? That's some hypocrisy right there, isn't it? So he kind of pulled that out and really showed it to me right in my face. And once he showed it to me, I could no longer deny it.

57:35BubblemanAnd then he was like, you know, I'm not trying to shamelessly promote our company. I just want you to know, like, the guy, Gary, who designed our pen, he really is designing pens. He's not rebranding anything. In fact, I believe he even said that a lot of Gary's throwaway designs that he decided not to use... Ended up becoming the pens that we know today in the market because he just tossed them in the garbage and the Chinese just opened them up and were like, hey, let's just make a bunch of pens.

58:01BubblemanI could be wrong in that. Only he could confirm that. But I just think that it's great that there's a company that's literally spending time and money and energy to try and make a pen that's like the safest, cleanest, you know, no glues and weird pens. Thank you for watching.

58:46BubblemanI think those guys are fucking on point. The Grasshopper was a great little unit. It's a vaporizer for cannabis, though. It's not a concentrate vaporizer.

58:58Todd MccormickYeah, no. Gary sent me one of those, and I've carried it everywhere I've went since. I love mine, dude. Yeah, I love mine, too. It tastes so good.

59:06Wood ThrushOh, no, not the Grasshopper. To be honest with everyone, the VapeXM looks like a good device to have.

59:15SpeakerI wouldn't use concentrates in the grasshopper at all. I know. Only herb. But it's great for herb. It's great for herb. But I have to say the same thing. I've been using the Omicron myself when I travel and go around and it's an excellent unit. So if you guys haven't tried it, I highly recommend going to Omicron and checking them out because it's very tasty. Just put a little splint on and boom, you're good to go.

59:43BubblemanYeah, Samurai Sam's in the chat right now talking about it with the group. He's talking about different things that Gary created. He also created, I guess, that all ceramic dish that you see in a lot of pens. So the guy's definitely on point. I'm glad that he's out there. I was talking to him recently trying to, you know, I haven't broken into the pen market in any way, shape, or form because I just don't want to rebrand a cheap Chinese pen and it's, you

1:00:11BubblemanIt's hard to find something that's done well enough that you would want to put, you know, kind of get behind and support, but it's a big industry down in California. A lot of people hitting on those pens with different oils and such. What are you guys puffing on out of your pens, Etienne and Todd? You guys mostly puffing just a variety of concentrates?

1:00:32SpeakerYeah, mostly varieties. I'm a BHO kind of guy, so usually a lot of BHO. Just a little sprinkle works perfect.

1:00:39BubblemanOkay.

1:00:40SpeakerNice.

1:00:41BubblemanYeah, I like the way the ceramic absorbs the oil and then gives you this really tasty fucking hit. Right? It's different from creaming up all the oil.

1:00:50Wood ThrushIt's like the whole hit. What's that one? The creaminess at the end of like a nice dab. You get that when you vape, but you get it the whole hit. It's like, it's a different experience.

1:01:09SpeakerWhat are you vaping out of yours, Todd?

1:01:14Todd MccormickAlright, this minute I don't have it on me, but I don't know one of a dozen different things I happen to have in stash. You know what's funny is I barely get to pay attention. I feel like I'm just trying flavors all the time, so it's like every hit is different. Maybe I'm crazy. But Rob was here enjoying the Bubble Man hash I had because he's not a VHO guy so much, although he's getting more into it.

1:01:39Todd MccormickSo I had Mark's Bubble, the Bubble Hash brand here and he went through that like it was... Fiend, I always thought Rob smoked...

1:01:50BubblemanI always thought Rob smoked everything. I always... Oh, he got four favors.

1:01:55Todd MccormickHe does, he favors farmer's hash though, like I always try to save up my dry sift for him when he comes over and he likes, you know, he likes water hash, he always has, but he's more and more getting into, we were talking about that and he said that, you know, that BHO as a class in itself has actually impressed him because I think that, you know, as someone who enjoys the cement cell and taste, it really captures it, you know, you can pick up quality BHO and smell the, you know, the culture bar, dare I say, and You know, really easily.

1:02:26BubblemanSo here's a question. From smoking cannabis and the terpene content that is on cannabis, I'm guessing 1-3%. The terpenes really increased drastically once we started making extracts like BHO. Like, BHO can easily have 10 plus percent terpenes, correct?

1:02:45Todd MccormickWell, I would have to say, yeah, depending on especially the new live resins, you know, the stuff people are doing with fresh frozen and absolutely that stuff's so loud. There's no question.

1:02:55BubblemanThese are higher concentrations of terpenes that we have ever inhaled into our bodies. Because I see a lot of people worried about the fact now that we've concentrated them again and adding them to material, not making them by any means 90%, but definitely bumping them up from the 10%. I just wonder where it's going to be. How much is too much for terpenes? Is there a point where we'll find that inhaling terpenes into our lungs is caustic at a certain percentage, you know, whether it's 90% terpenes or even if it's the...

1:03:29BubblemanI mean, because I know I had this conversation with Todd the other day, actually. We were talking about different terpene causticity. We went and we checked out the MSDS page on terpenes and some of them in pure form obviously irritate skin and can cause harm. But it seems like cannabis produces these things in very unique paths.

1:03:46Todd MccormickAnd should not be inhaled. And should not be inhaled.

1:03:49BubblemanWhich one? And should not be inhaled, yeah.

1:03:50Todd MccormickSome of them absolutely not. You know, and I think that this situation, you know, Mark and I were getting at is that, you know, in some instances when you're looking at cannabis or even hash, It's muted incredibly, but if you start using specific terpenes, I mean, now you're Agent Orange, the cleaner, is limonene, isn't it?

1:04:12BubblemanWhat percentage of your terpene profile is limonene? Limonene is only a cleaner in pure form. If you dilute it, it's no longer a cleaner. It no longer has the same effect. What I'm saying is I don't think that the terpenes that we're doing now and dipping it into rosins and bubble hashes, I don't think the numbers are much, much higher than some of the extracts that we're already seeing that people have been inhaling into their lungs for, I'd say, at least 10 years now.

1:04:40Todd MccormickBut yeah, but then I would have to say this. Are the profiles that you see in water hash or BHO or PHO, are they more natural in comparison to us spiking ourselves with a single terpene? Or, you know, because terpenes are hydrocarbons.

1:04:58BubblemanOnce again, we're using terpene profiles, not single terpenes. I agree.

1:05:02Todd MccormickI don't know if I understand what you mean, but if we're taking and we're... I get what you mean, but we're still amplifying the shit out of them is the thing. And I mean, we have delicate lungs, and I mean, in some ways we shouldn't be inhaling hydrocarbons that can, you know, melt tissue, so to speak. I mean, what that drop of terpenes did in your hash when it emulsified it really had me thinking, because I was thinking, geez, good God, what's it doing inside of my body?

1:05:26Todd MccormickYou know, what's it, you know, and this is where I feel that we should all proceed with caution to a degree.

1:05:32BubblemanSure, yeah, I mean I always do bioassay, you know, I'm kind of my own experiment, I am my own tester and I live a pretty healthy lifestyle in the sense that I don't smoke cigarettes or drink coffee in the morning, I don't drink alcohol, I don't take hard drugs, I eat organic and And vegetarian and vegan food with a little bit of seafood. And I'm pretty hyper aware and sensitive to different things that are going on in my body, especially from all the hot yoga that I've done.

1:06:00BubblemanReally got to turn the flashlight on in my body and get to know myself in a way that was helpful in my later on in life years, being able to assess and judge certain things. And I got to say, the feeling that I get when I use these terpenes It's just one of elation. I just feel happy and wonderful. And I see all the people around me that when I dab them out, I see how happy and wonderful they feel as well.

1:06:27BubblemanAnd I've got to say that it's good vibes.

1:06:30Todd MccormickBut don't you think that's a bit psychosomatic? When we smell roses, we feel happy. When we smell a good dinner, we feel happy.

1:06:36TonyJohn, you want to take this one?

1:06:38Todd MccormickIs it psychosomatic?

1:06:40BubblemanPurple Punch in the hospital, or was there something real going on there?

1:06:45Todd MccormickNo, no, I'm not sure what you're comparing it to.

1:06:47BubblemanWell, just, you know, is it psychosomatic? Aromatherapy is a real thing. And so I was saying, like, when John inhaled the purple punch terpenes right after his neck surgery lying in the hospital, I have it on video. You can clearly see it's like... You see his eyebrows go up, you see his head kind of lift, and then he's just, he starts, he just starts talking.

1:07:11Todd MccormickBut my grandma's eyes would light up when I'd cut her a rose and bring it in from her backyard garden. That's aromatherapy.

1:07:19BubblemanRose oil is worth $20,000 a liter. It is a highly valuable essential oil that absolutely has... A powerful presence, and when you inhale it, of course.

1:07:30Todd MccormickAnd I'm not discrediting what happened to him in the hospital. I'm just saying that isn't that what happens when we smell a good meal or we walk by some flowers? I mean, this is how we're programd.

1:07:39BubblemanAbsolutely, and that's real. This is how we're programd. You said it. That's how real it is.

1:07:46SpeakerSmelling at dinner or something like that is completely different from taking that terpene and how it actually modulated my pain. I mean, I deal with this quite a bit, Todd, and stuff like that. I do a lot of normal therapies. I burn incense in my house, stuff like that. But that terpene and certain terpenes help me with different conditions, and I've realized that with cannabis throughout my therapies.

1:08:05SpeakerAnd that particular purple punch, literally, post-surgery, coming out, I'm in, took my pain to a different level where I wasn't feeling it at that point, where... The time it gave me wasn't long enough. It would be nice to be able to have that longevity with it, but it definitely modulated the pain where it was not there. It relaxed me in a certain way that it took my space to a different level.

1:08:27SpeakerMy concentration of my pain wasn't there anymore. It was gone. Right.

1:08:31Todd MccormickNo, and hey, look, I get aromatherapy. To me, this is what I meant when I said it's psychosomatic, because we are programd to smell things, and if we like them, they do make us feel elevated. They make us feel better. So to me, I'm not surprised. And the people that, to me, think that they're going to get high like they feel off of a joint, off of terpenes, are missing the boat.

1:08:55Todd MccormickI mean, terpenes are not cannabinoids. They're not going to Thank you for watching.

1:09:22Todd MccormickIt was a big long counter. I now want one in my house.

1:09:28BubblemanWe had a variety of vaporizers on there, but the one that literally got my manager what I would literally say was the closest I've ever seen to someone being baked was Rose Hips. He vaporized Rose Hips in the volcano. His eyes got red and puffy. He's a real sensitive dude. He rarely puffed even herb. He was one of those dudes that if he puffed, It just gets super high.

1:09:53BubblemanBut he got fucking high off rose hips and we were all just like, I mean I had felt some effects, drastic effects from vaporizing mint, it was mint. Someone brought in some like, he had like a spearmint, pure, pure essential oil, it was in a tiny little jar and you had paid pretty good money for it and he put a drop on some mint flowers, mint leaf that we had broken up into the volcano and we filled up a couple of bags and it was I mean, I can't even express how unbelievable it was.

1:10:24BubblemanIt was like getting injected with happiness. Everyone was just like, wow! Very, very powerful experience. Lots of those experiences happened at the inhalation station of vaporization. Weren't you, Marcel, at the inhalation station of vaporization back in the day?

1:10:42SpeakerYeah, I remember that. It was awesome. You had all the different setups. I mean, that was really the first look at what we're so used to now. And at the time when we came up there, that was a whole different scene. You remember that party you had?

1:11:17BubblemanIs he cutting up on anyone else?

1:11:19SpeakerYeah, Marcel, it's having a hard time hearing you.

1:11:21Todd MccormickYeah, it doesn't work at all.

1:11:22SpeakerThat sucks.

1:11:24Todd MccormickYeah, he's got no audio.

1:11:26BubblemanHe was right about to go into it, and it was like, ah, ah, ah, ah.

1:11:30SpeakerDo you have a microphone, potentially, or a hit piece, Marcel? It might be your internet. I think it's my internet because you guys are clipping out real bad too. Okay, that came through clear.

1:11:44Todd MccormickYeah, try restarting your computer and again sitting closer to your modem.

1:11:49SpeakerThat's good.

1:11:50Todd MccormickThat's what you got to do, bro.

1:11:52SpeakerBut I will restart the computer like full reboot.

1:11:56Todd MccormickYeah, and just go sit next to the modem. Go sit wherever your modem is because that's what you need a closer access point. Okay.

1:12:04BubblemanBecause I want to hear your melting point story. Marcel was, of course, one of the original artists when we threw these glass parties, me and Marbleslinger, threw some glass shows a couple of, well, 15 and 14 years ago now, I guess. The first one was called Degenerate Art, and degenerate art was a term taken from, I guess, Nazi Germany when Hitler did this degenerate art tour where he took the artists he believed were degenerates and he Thank you.

1:12:34BubblemanThank you.

1:12:58BubblemanI think his piece the first year was The Phoenix Rising, which was this like five foot tall glass phoenix that he showed up in a giant crate. And it went on top of a table that was full of sand, and then in the sand there were these different glass artifacts like a glass pipe, a glass bowl, and some other things. And it was the picture was the glass, the sand, the silicone turns to glass, and the glass rises from the ash into the phoenix.

1:13:23BubblemanIt was an absolutely stunning and unbelievable thing. And it was the show that inspired Marvel Slinger's documentary, Degenerate Art. Even though you don't see anything about the art show in that documentary, there were some amazing artists at that show. You can check out my YouTube channel for some of the videos on that show, Degenerate Art. Definitely.

1:13:46Wood ThrushI just watched those videos the other day, and I was about to comment on that. If you want to get the original background on that, Bubble Man's videos are online. Check it out.

1:13:58BubblemanDid you see the Degenerate Art one with Hillary Black being our, she was like the interviewer. She interviews Marbleslinger and she interviews Marcel and she interviews Max and she interviews Deep Rex. It was classic. I mean that was a long fucking time ago.

1:14:12Wood ThrushI can't believe it was that long. I remember seeing it, the documentary when it first came out and I was just like, has it really been that long?

1:14:23BubblemanYeah, no, it's definitely, well, we just broke 1,000 viewers. It's nice to see over 1,000 people hanging out right now, waiting for Marcel to come back and tell his story about the inhalation station of Vaporize Nation.

1:14:37TonyI'd like to chime in. I think we're starting to go. Chime. So, first of all, we were talking about that. We had a brief conversation in the You know, it would be like, it would be like, you know, you would turn a blind eye on public safety and safety protocols and different things. And we've been having that for a long time. I've been making it for two to three years.

1:15:11TonyAnd when we first started combining terpenes with full melt was in Amsterdam.

1:15:15Todd MccormickDid you say two to three years, Tony? Come on, let's not exaggerate the conversations that we've been having. Come on, man. You know, and the thing is, they haven't even been on the market long enough to really test on people. And honestly, it's not exaggerated to think that some people inhaling terpenes, especially if they're not yours, it's bad. I mean, it's like some of these things are not designed in concentration to be inhaled, and I think people get confused.

1:15:42Todd MccormickAnd we're not having a conversation about terpenes. It doesn't always have to go back to what you're doing particularly.

1:15:48TonyYeah, but this, again, was my time and not yours. So have a little respect, and if you would like to look at the 2014 awards, because we are in 2016, go back to Amsterdam to that year, and you'll see the awards that I won with Live Resin and the Turtmelt using terpenes. And before that, I was making terpenes, and before that, in 2012, we started making our first perfumes.

1:16:11TonySo just a little bit of respect would be great when I'm talking, you know, in the future. That would be great.

1:16:17Todd MccormickDon't get your panties in a bunch, bro. I've always been very nice to you, Tony. We're having an open conversation. You crack in and talk for like 20, 10 minutes at a time sometimes, you know, going on and on about points. All of us wonder how you're talking about it at the end of it. So just relax and have a conversation if you can. Maybe it's not the right place.

1:16:37TonyCall me a liar.

1:16:40BubblemanWell, go ahead and finish what you were saying, Tony.

1:16:42TonySure, no problem, Mark, because when we were together... And that first started happening. What I was trying to say was when I first started making them and we started vaporizing them, we noticed that in the beginning when I was doing steam distillation and direct hydro distillation, making terpenes over two years ago, those changed. We saw them change. We saw them yellow out. We saw them turn into saps.

1:17:10TonyWhen we I will never forget at the second 2014 when we were at Legends, the following year, the Terp hit that we gave JJ absolutely destroyed his lungs. You were there, Mark. And so what I was trying to say, Todd, was that this has been a few years of trying to look at Look at like the adverse effects of that. And I wasn't happy with the way those terpenes were coming out at that time.

1:17:48Todd MccormickWithout interrupting you, could you extrapolate a little on that when saying that his lungs got hurt or something like that? I don't understand what happened that wasn't there. For those of us who wasn't there, what happened to them?

1:17:58TonyOkay. So like when we were at your house and I said, hey, you got to monitor the temperature on the new terpenes. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit

1:18:29TonyTrying to refine this and hitting a lot of walls and failing a lot over and over to try to create a pure product that I felt was in a different stable state than it was then and using different type of extractions. I hadn't given up on it for a little while as well. And then we started combining those type of terpenes with water hash. I felt there was always like a little bit of water present in those terpenes.

1:18:59TonyAnd those things would interact poorly with extracts or full melt or anything like that. So you're right. And what I was trying to say in the beginning was I was trying to agree with you that you're right. There's a lot of things that need to be looked at. And you have to study what those effects would be. And just by simply putting out essential oils or putting out, even if somebody fucked up, you know, cold trapping BHL products, Thank you for joining us.

1:19:30TonyWe'll be right back.

1:19:33Todd MccormickWell, I would like to point out, I think right now what we are concerned about is people going out to Sigma and getting, you know, basically sample testings and then dumping it on hash and selling it because they think now that spiking their shit with terpenes is going to be the fix to their crappy product. And this is where I think that people inhaling hydrocarbons that are not meant per se to be inhaled, sure they smell incredible, they're terpenes, I get it, but we should be responsible about it at the same time.

1:20:01Todd MccormickI mean, I would hate to see people melting their lungs or, you know, having bad reactions, too.

1:20:06BubblemanReally, Todd? Because you seem to be super pro-BHO and not worried about all the low-quality BHO that people are smoking. What about those hydrocarbons that are damaging people's lungs and people blowing up?

1:20:17Todd MccormickWell, if we're going to go that route, what about all the mold that's got into people's lungs and all the water hash? Because water hash is inherently prone to mold, so...

1:20:25BubblemanI've never heard of a case of people getting mold in their lungs and having a problem, but I have heard of people burning and blowing up. Many, many, many people.

1:20:32Todd MccormickOkay. Now, you just took three steps away from we're having a conversation about alien hydrocarbons, which are available on the internet. People are constantly pumping gas and blowing themselves up. It has nothing to do with each other.

1:20:50BubblemanIt's completely the same. It's not through people blow up pumping gas into their car from static electricity. From cognitive dissonance, Tom. Cognitive dissonance.

1:21:02Todd MccormickIt's all about not going on a tangent and staying on it. Right now people are buying these damn testing terpenes and putting them on hash and selling to other people. And that is, in my opinion, problematic.

1:21:15BubblemanAnd people are saying super low quality butane as well. Super low quality.

1:21:20Todd MccormickConversation, though. You know what? If all you can do to defend a point is have another conversation, that's called a distraction. Okay. So let's have a conversation about people irresponsibly inhaling hydrocarbons because that's what's happening. We're promoting people's local terpenes. Isn't butane hydrocarbons? It's not about butane. It's about terpenes. We are promoting people inhaling terpenes. Yes, so now people are getting them from other people other than Tony.

1:21:46BubblemanExactly, exactly, and we promote all things that get inhaled, and if they can't get them from the good source, when you even promote butane, someone gets low quality butane and they inhale that, that's a hydrocarbon, that could do them damage, but you're not going to stop loving it.

1:22:01Todd MccormickDude, I ride a motorcycle, I drive behind a bus, I'm inhaling hydrocarbons.

1:22:05BubblemanThere you go, so there you go, I just don't know why it's so... We're not forcing anyone to inhale terpenes. We're merely sharing our story.

1:22:16Todd MccormickAre we not talking about responsible use on a lot of levels? I'm not advocating anything that's going to hurt anybody. We are. Can we all agree on that?

1:22:26TonyYes.

1:22:26Todd MccormickI mean, BPG does testing to not harm its patients.

1:22:31TonyYes, everybody does. Excellent.

1:22:32Todd MccormickRight? We're all on the same page here. We're all on the same page. And granted, you can blow yourself up pumping gas. You can blow yourself up with BHO. You can do a lot of dumb things. But what we're talking about right now is people going out and buying basically industry standard terpenes, putting them in hashish, and blowing up the smell and the scent and the taste.

1:22:52Todd MccormickAnd that could be potentially very, very harmful.

1:22:54TonyYes. Let's stay on topic for that for a second.

1:22:59Todd MccormickThat's all I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to be argumentative because when you bring up other shit that has nothing to do with what we're talking about, that's argumentative.

1:23:06TonyI think we can tie it back to hydrocarbons because terpenes have to do with hydrocarbons. Right now, right now. I agree with what you're saying. It's important to know also combining the combination of the two. When you guys were talking about pure form, like limonene, when we look at a fruit, let's talk about fruits, for example. We look at an orange. It has a percentage of vitamin C in that orange.

1:23:35TonyWe extract the orange. We bring it down to a pure compound of vitamin C. We put it into vitamins, and we eat it. And we break it down in that sequence. And when we look at flowers, that's the same thing.

1:23:49Dr Mark ScialdoneVitamin C is made by bacterial fermentation, not made by oranges. Okay, go ahead. Go on.

1:24:04TonyNo problem. They used to have a plethora of sources.

1:24:08Dr Mark ScialdoneDr. Yeah, they do. It's not economical to make vitamin C that way. They make it from a fermentation. Dr. Let's use vitamin A.

1:24:19TonyLet's use vitamin A because vitamin A is actually considered a terpene. You can Google that and look it up. Let's use vitamin A as an example. In its pure form, in its pure form, when you're getting food grade, you're getting over-the-counter proteins that are super concentrated, one single source, and you're going to vaporize and entail them. Even though they're grassy foods, they could have adverse effects on our mind.

1:24:49TonyI think the most important thing to note about that is that cannabis, And terpenes derived from cannabinoids aren't in a single source pure, they're in a widely ranged spectrum. Whether we can track all those spectrums right now or not, it doesn't matter. There's a little tiny... They are catalysts. They are catalysts for cannabinoids. And without terpenes in our food and in our life and in our cannabis, we don't have many effects.

1:25:20TonySo pure TNT or pure CBD is very boring and very flat. And that's been proven by people that have been on this panel that we all respect and people that have published it. And so those two points is something that I just wanted to make point out there. And I agree with you, Todd, on that example. And when we were trying to make a look, when we're looking at concentration levels of terpenes or Or the effect of even releasing them.

1:25:55TonyLike I didn't release them until October. It took me a few years, a year and a half from the time we were talking, from the time we started actually smoking them to actually release them because I didn't feel comfortable and safe releasing them in the way I was making them before. I had to fail a lot.

1:26:14Todd MccormickTony, can I bring up my, and I'm not trying to interrupt you again, my real point isn't, again, you know, and I don't want to say this like dare you speak from a guilty conscience because I know you're conscious about all the products you put out. I actually really like you and I think you're a nice guy, so don't take this as a personal attack. When I'm talking about this, really what bugs me is the CO2 pens that are viciously spiking the products with turps, wherever they can get them.

1:26:39Todd MccormickEven degreasers from Florida meant for nothing other than being in a bottle of degreaser. And on top of that, you're looking at people that are now figuring out if they dump shatter, and if they make shatter and these terpenes together, they can stick them in a pen and they can sell higher quality shatter pens. But they're spiked with terpenes. And I just say over and over is that a little bit of buyer beware.

1:27:04Todd MccormickMe and Mel Frank have had long discussions about this, and he has been urging the company he works at to actually lower or remove the artificial terpenes that they use. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:27:32Todd MccormickGod damn, I don't feel like I'm attacking you and your product. I'm glad you're doing what you're doing. I think this innovation is helping the whole industry better understand a big part of cannabis, but at the same time, I hope we're all advocating a responsible space with it.

1:27:47TonyI couldn't agree a thousand percent more. When I came on, when you were talking about Bubble Man combining his half gram to the ten drops, I thought you were questioning the safety of that.

1:28:03Todd MccormickYou know, not per se, you know, when you came over and hung out with us too, you know, the next day I was hanging out with the drunkards and, you know, in some ways, and honestly, they weren't impressed. I think they expected their high to go like times ten and I'm like, no, it's subtle. Like, and if you're expecting terpenes to act like cannabinoids, you're missing the point.

1:28:21Todd MccormickIf you accept them for what they are and you can find the beauty and the inspiration and it works with your... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:28:46BubblemanDid you wait for BHO to become like safe and tested or did you just like everyone else start using it as it came onto the scene? We didn't question that.

1:28:54Todd MccormickNo, it was on the scene here in the Baymark for a long time. I don't even know when it went on the menu at BPG, probably 06 I would guess.

1:29:02SpeakerI didn't do my first. It goes earlier than that. It was because people didn't know how to do it. So it would come in as honey bud. The people would take a medium to low quality bud and then they would drip it onto the buds and we'd sell it as honey bud. So Those have been around since the early 2000s.

1:29:21Todd MccormickAnd just for the record, I'm an organic vegetarian that borderlines obnoxious vegan. So I didn't like the B and the BHO because it was butane. And really it was Kenny that came over and schooled me to chemistry, explained across international ovens to me and how it all works and how hydrocarbons boil off. And I did the first photos of the different types of BHO with Kenny Thank you for joining us.

1:30:12Todd MccormickSo when I used this for the first time, it really, I felt huge, huge effect. And then, yeah, it's the same thing with cannabis all across the board. People use it and they have personally, it works. I don't know how else to put it. I did a dab. It helped my neck. I didn't have to smoke, chain smoke joints. It's beneficial. Now, made correctly, I'm, again, an advocate for safety, an advocate for doing it right, you know.

1:30:40Todd MccormickBut I've always been that way with everything.

1:30:41BubblemanYou have a bioassay. If you had something that wasn't good, you would know very quickly from your sensitivities. If someone gave you low quality, improperly made, non-purged stuff and you took a dab of that, you would immediately know.

1:30:57Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's assuming that you're just going to get an acute response. You're not going to be able to determine whether or not there's chronic issues. Over chronic use because things like cancer, you're not going to get an acute response like hives or you're not going to break out or break out in a cold sweat. So I hear what you're saying on your bioassay, but for chronic conditions, particularly cancer, you're not going to know until after you've got cancer.

1:31:22Dr Mark ScialdoneRight.

1:31:23BubblemanWell, I mean, with things like Crohn's, Crohn's is one that you'll very much be able to tell any chemical sensitivity like you wouldn't believe. So I'm just wondering if Todd, I think Todd would notice the difference between low quality oil and high quality oil. Wait a minute, Todd.

1:31:39Todd MccormickI'm in a particularly odd place where I get stuff that's tested. All the clubs here have been above board and established for years, so I'm in a weird space. Everything comes in packaging with SKU numbers on it. It's a different world up here. That said... I feel like I had more exposure to hydrocarbons, butane, especially when I was a kid lighting my bowl before high school or whatever and sucking in them Bic lighters in my bong and not really, because I used to, my favorite way to smoke was not to smoke, it was to use a magnifying glass with a bong full of ice.

1:32:12Todd MccormickDon't have balls. Yes, that was my thing. And it was because of the difference between using a solar magnifying glass and me not coughing and using a Bic lighter or whatever. This is why ATN now or why I used to have the little torch lighters I use because they're cleaner. So I'm not a fan of inhaling hydrocarbons and, you know, but... But at the same time, I am a fan of very effective cannabis medicines.

1:32:38Todd MccormickAnd this is why I like Waterhash. This is why I like PHO. I even like PHO. If done right, CO2 has a purpose. But back to what we're talking about. Right now, everybody's trying to get an edge on the industry, and this terpene thing is Beyond our conversation, this is people going to Sigma and buying, you know, standards and then taking them and misappropriating them, if you will, putting them on stuff where they shouldn't be, mixing them in, and selling them to people.

1:33:06TonyWell, no, yeah, and I think that's a cheap way to capitalize on farm-to-table concepts of what we were trying to do. I agree with you. And that's often why, like, That's also why, like, in the beginning, I had, if you remember, I had Blue River, and I had this, and I was combining it, and Double Man and I were working together, making rosins and different things together.

1:33:33TonyThe intention was to never really sell the terpenes on their own, but what would happen was, I would dip them or I'd mix them in and I was making different concentrates and people were like, oh, I want to have those or I want to be able to try those. Then the whole rosin thing exploded where everybody's making flower rosin or hash rosin at home. So this was like, this was the idea of saying, okay, let me get those terpenes to you.

1:33:56TonyAnd most of the people that, and with Instagram and the website, we couldn't come out and say, hey, do this. Every time we showed people how to use it, Instagram shut us down. So it became this very tricky situation legally with banking, processing, keeping the credit card companies going, the shipping companies, legalities with federal crossing state lines and things like that. So really the intention was to actually make products like what Bubble Man had or having the terpenes with the actual products.

1:34:33TonyAnd the reason why that all started was because, quite frankly, hydrocarbons and closed-loop systems did a very, very, very good job at concentrating THC and tertiary levels to where full melt and dry sift and things like that kind of started getting pushed in the back burner about a year and a half ago. And so, and I was on the, and I was, we were making lots of hydrocarbon.

1:35:01TonyI was doing the white live resins with Giddy and like all kinds of stuff. And those type of terpenes, when you're using fresh frozen, we're talking about hydrocarbons, we could tie it back to that. They are both hydrocarbons. So if you're using a hydrocarbon to extract THC and terpenes that are present in the flowers are also hydrocarbons, well, we have a nice little bond that's going on there.

1:35:23TonyAnd so, That aroma and the flavors that come out of something like that properly done, you know, we talked about that before with Vern or anything Kenny's done, is an exceptional quality compared to the masses that's on the market. So that's how this all started with how do we bring, you know, a solventless experience to the highest potency and highest flavor experience that we could. And so our experience that we've had with the friends, I agree.

1:35:57TonyIf you're smoking pure terpenes, you're going to get flavor. You're not going to get super high. You're not going to get blown out of your mind. You're not going to get this experience. But the moment you add a 50-50 blend of cannabinoids and terpenes, terpenes now act as a catalyst for those receptors in our body. And those give us the expression. I mean, the music was we talked about.

1:36:22TonyAnd so the intent was to always mix them together. So I'm sorry if I came off a little bit aggressive when I started talking, but when I heard...

1:36:31Todd MccormickYou know, in all honesty, I think you take it as an attack on you when we talk about terpenes and you don't own them. And, you know, the reality is they're in our society. And this is, I think our conversation when it's going out to, you know, a thousand people live and tens of thousands through the week isn't always about what your product is. It's about what terpenes are and what it is to inhale them.

1:36:51Todd MccormickAnd people shouldn't be buyer beware. And there are some that come with the thing that says do not inhale if you start looking at their, you know, safety sheets. So... And what bothers me, man, is that like, yeah, I know you. You're in a place that where, you know, Harborside started basically encouraging testing because they wanted to know what was in the products they sold. It was Steve having a sense of responsibility.

1:37:15Todd MccormickThat's what BPG was about. It wasn't about a horse race or a quarter mile race who had the highest THC. It was really about, yo, let's make sure this shit don't hurt anybody. And then later we started tuning into the percentages and for a minute it was a little horse race in WHO who can do the highest THC or CBD and I get it. But now especially with CO2 being so dominant in the market, there are so many companies well beyond us on this panel that are making really crappy CO2 products and then dousing it with terpenes that truthfully people listening shouldn't be being inhaled.

1:37:53TonyI agree. And I wanted to, my point in the beginning was I wanted to admit that I did it wrong before. And I didn't release them because I didn't feel right. And then it took me a while. It took a good year and a half of really, and Mark's seen it. And your bio essay was, oh, these are really good, but I don't know. They were harsh.

1:38:16BubblemanThey were harsh. The first time we did it in Amsterdam with like Rick and Soma and that Tracy chick, like everyone was upstairs in that little high times room on that house. Yeah. And we were getting turps and it was like, that had to be like two plus years ago.

1:38:31TonyIt was. That's crazy. It was.

1:38:34SpeakerSo that's one of the things. Yeah, it was on my birthday. I remember you dabbing me out. And some of those players. That was a couple of years ago when I asked her and that was awesome.

1:38:46TonyYeah, so I mean that's all I was trying to say is that, you know, give me a little bit of credit on that because I'm not, I'm not, don't lie. You know, like when I was talking about playing games, I did start a couple of years ago and it did, it did not, it didn't come off the way we as college students wanted it to come off.

1:39:09Todd MccormickI feel that, but we've been doing Hash Church for a while now, and you know this conversation has been, you know, something that has been building in the last little while, and you know your product hitting the market has definitely brought consciousness to this conversation, especially through our conversations. It's just that unfortunately your product is expensive, there are cheaper paths to those terpenes, of course we all know, Google is plentiful, and the reality is people use them maliciously.

1:39:35Todd MccormickThat's really my concern. Hey, I sat with you and I did dab all of them. I tried everything and I didn't feel anything but good. So, I mean, I don't feel... Your product, and don't take this as some personal attack, is per se harmful. I'm saying, really, I'm saying the same thing over and over again. I don't want to grab a CO2 pen and breathe in some, you know, combusted hydrocarbon terpene that the guy got for 20 bucks a gallon off Google Shopping.

1:40:07Todd MccormickI really don't.

1:40:09SpeakerYeah, neither do I.

1:40:11Todd MccormickYeah, and then I hope people listening understand that, you know, and I don't, you know, we shouldn't, you know, it's not a big defense about you and your product when we're talking about the perils of problems. I mean, I love water hash, but ever since I started making it, I realized that when people handed it to me, I had to look at it because the shit could mold easy.

1:40:29Todd MccormickYou know, I had to keep an eye, you know. It's just keeping it real, you know. But as a grower, I knew the same thing with Bud. Look at all the Buds that failed the Emerald Cup. You know, this year they told the growers, look, you come straight and test your own stuff because we're not going to pull it down off their website this time. So the stuff that fails is going to stay up.

1:40:49Todd MccormickSo people better know what they're handing them.

1:40:51BubblemanWe feel the same way about food. You don't just eat any food. And so it's like, so what in this conversation… Is Tony to do when he's just making what I consider some of the best terps that are on the market and he is conscious and he's not out to harm people? It's like, is it him that should be doing something? Is that what you're bringing this up for?

1:41:10BubblemanOr is it us as a group that should be doing something? Or how do you see us?

1:41:14Todd MccormickI'm bringing up I'm only bringing it up because more and more of the conversation is coming around to us. You know, it's barely been, you know, for those of us that, you know, I'm editing a magazine, working on a grow book, terpenes, you know, Rob Clark wrote a big part, you know, fragrant medicine. It'll be in my next book about terpenes. You'll all love it. It's been a big predominant part of the conversation.

1:41:32Todd MccormickWe are all adapting to new technology, be it rosin, be it BHO, be it water. When I met you, Mark, We didn't have water hash. You and I were happy with Tri-Sift. I mean, you know, so like think of how this whole consciousness has changed and it's still changing and we embrace it. Me and Tony have been up here right at my house pressing buds and enjoying the fuck out of it.

1:41:53Todd MccormickSo when the next technology rolls down, we'll probably be up here doing that. So, I mean, it's just, look, I'm not pro people blowing them up. I'm not pro people squishing their finger in a fucking rosin press either, you know, but we're drowning in a bubble bucket. Or drowning, which is highly a capable thing, those big bags, easy, you could fall in if you're too high. Hey, welcome, Mike.

1:42:19TonyI think we got the point, and I appreciate that, Todd, and I'm sorry if I felt a little defensive. But yeah, you're absolutely 100% right. It does irritate me because I do feel conscious in the sense that if we start producing other products and people try to mimic it and they just take food grade stuff, Thank you for watching.

1:42:53Wood ThrushOr personal craftsmanship is what we want in all of these products.

1:42:57SpeakerWell, right. Well, you've got the Chinese knocking off glass, and next you're going to have Chinese knocking off turps and selling these things, and they're not going to have the ethics involved, and people are already selling, you know, various turping things on the internet. As you said, you just go to Google and search. So, you know... At least we have people with ethics explaining what the ethics are.

1:43:17SpeakerThe problem are exactly as we said, those who aren't playing by the rules. And now people who are curious because now we've sparked this whole conversation, so now these kids are going searching and saying, oh shit, I'm not a patient, I'm not in California, I can't go and get Tony's turfs, oh, I can't go to Colorado, et cetera, so how do I get them? Oh, look, here's on the internet, now I can go buy this, buy the, you know, Thank you for watching.

1:43:55SpeakerEverything's going to be great, and I think that's what we're absolutely all fearful of, is because disinformation and the availability of information on the internet that isn't necessarily proper. Yes, it is terpenes, and yes, people have been buying terpenes for various other things for years, but it doesn't mean that these are inhalable in any way, shape, or form. To be honest, Ed Chen, the reason I did not release The information about terpenes potentiating and modulating THC and the other cannabinoids was this exact reason.

1:44:32SpeakerI was afraid that people would instantly be doing it. And within about, I don't know, five, six years, I started telling all my friends, and the word got around. Especially Ed Rosenthal wrote that Mango article, and whatever. Yeah, the end effect of it all was that... Yeah, people can, if they're honest and they want to make a good, reliable product, I have nothing against it. But if they're using mass-produced, the cheapest quality that they can find to make a profit, then yeah, it ain't right.

1:45:13SpeakerWell, you kept Pandora in its box, but now Pandora's out of its box, and so now we're just trying to... Oh, I realize that.

1:45:21Todd MccormickAnd dear... Dare I say, I feel a touch of responsibility. I mean, I feel like we have a little, you know, Sunday morning rally every day. You know, when me and Jack used to do these in L.A., we were happy to have a few hundred people in front of us listening to us talk about cannabis and thinking they would go out and spread the word. And now we've got thousands, if not tens of thousands of people watching this.

1:45:41Todd MccormickAnd I think there's a touch of responsibility that goes with it. You know, we are not advocating... Anything that would hurt anyone. I mean, if anything, we're totally the opposite.

1:45:50SpeakerNo, no, but at the same time, Todd, once the information's out there, you have no control whatsoever. If a thousand people hear about this today, well, they'll each tell ten of their friends, ten thousand people will know, and it'll just keep multiplying. That's the way of the universe today.

1:46:08BubblemanThe way I look at it is that we are sharing in a radical open forum here and because of the sharing, things are moving forward and I don't think we can be afraid. We should be responsible for sure, but at the same time, it's like Sam says, once you release Pandora, there is no controlling information. We're seeing it right now with activists in Canada who have fought and fought and fought and fought for cannabis to become legal and mainstream.

1:46:36BubblemanAnd now that the legal and the mainstream group is saying, okay, yeah, well, this is how we're going to do it. Now they're like, well, that's not how we wanted it done. It's like, well, you know, it's not necessarily how it goes.

1:46:47SpeakerI sent information to Todd today about the Sigma standard terpenes. By standard terpenes, I mean ones that are used for analytical calibration of gas chromatography and high pressure. And what they cost is several hundred dollars for 100 milliliters. And whereas the ones that are 98% are about $1,200 that price.

1:47:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYes, Sigma doesn't make anything. Sigma is just a middleman.

1:47:26SpeakerNo, they say that they now make this themselves.

1:47:30Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, that's bullshit. They don't make anything. Okay, I'm just telling you what the catalog said when I looked at it this afternoon. No, they're a chemical warehouse. Sigma Aldrich.

1:47:42SpeakerThey listed the people who used to make it, the pure reference standard. And then they also said that they now manufacture this themselves.

1:47:54Dr Mark ScialdoneI find that really hard to believe because mostly Sigma Aldrich is basically just a warehouse that sells chemicals and laboratory equipment to the research community.

1:48:05BubblemanWell, you have homework to do now, Mark, and you can let us know next Sunday.

1:48:09TonyI will say that I do buy different things and I've used them in the past. They're like the Amazon for science products.

1:48:17SpeakerYeah, and for example, they sell limonene, D-limonene, in different standards. They have a grade that's edible, so it's food grade, all the way up to... Yeah, that's all made by contract manufacturing.

1:48:36Dr Mark ScialdoneThey do not have assets on their books to make limonene, period. No, I'm not saying this. It's all done by others. They just basically source it.

1:48:46SpeakerAll I'm saying is that when I looked at Alpha Pioneer today, it did say they made it. That's all I'm saying.

1:48:55Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, they probably have an exclusive arrangement and maybe they do toll it for their particular manufacturing, but they do not make limonene. They probably do it at a contract.

1:49:13Dr Mark ScialdoneThe hundreds of thousands of compounds in their collection, they don't make those. They just keep them in bottles in a warehouse in Milwaukee somewhere, or they have various warehouses all throughout the country.

1:49:27SpeakerI always ordered mine from Europe anyway.

1:49:30Dr Mark ScialdoneYes, Sigma Aldrich, it used to just be Aldrich and then they merged with Sigma. Sigma was more biological than chemical. The chemical side was Aldrich Chemical and they, make no mistake about it, are not really a manufacturing. They're just a warehouse.

1:49:45SpeakerAnd I'm not claiming they are a manufacturer.

1:49:48BubblemanAlright, so I think we've heard enough about the Sigma manufacturing. Let's hear from Mike West because I know he came in to say something.

1:49:58SpeakerSo naturally everybody here on the panels are purists. We want to be able to take the raw plant cannabis, extract it in various ways, and utilize it for whatever medical use we and our patients use. Obviously, different medical patients are going to have different medical symptoms. And because of that, every medical patient or patient subgroup is going to need different prepared extractions that are decarbed at different rates and then prepared in formulations that can be consumed in different ways.

1:50:34SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:50:49SpeakerMembrane-bound hash may not be the best for transdermal applications because you really need to extract the essential oils and not have them bound in the trichromic membranes in order for it to have a lot of intercellular use. That said, there's also a lot to be said for taking dry-sift bubble hash and some hashes and even curing them while they're still bound in their chemical membranes. I don't want to say that there is one best type of hash because there's a lot of different benefits with every type of hash.

1:51:26SpeakerWell put. In preparing smokeable hashes versus vaporizable hashes, there's going to be pros and cons with either. We saw this when we were doing CO2 extractions. We see this when we're doing hydrocarbon extractions. Now, I'm currently operating in a state that has a 10 parts per million residual solvent rule. No PHO or PHO that my company currently produces is going to be sold with more than 10 parts per million of residual solvent.

1:51:57SpeakerNow, Mark, I'm sure, could... And I'll kind of state how low that is. It's within the standard deviation of the equipment that they're testing the residual solvents on. That means we have to remove every last molecule of butane out in order for the state to say that it's safe for human consumption. And unfortunately, that much of the butane out, you might have some terpene either degradation or terpene loss that then can get recovered In our cold traps.

1:52:30SpeakerCO2 obviously has its pros, has its cons. A lot of the early CO2 machines were not the best CO2 machines because either they didn't operate at a high enough pressure or they didn't operate in ways that they were designed. So you have some CO2 machines that operate more like a steam distillation, which are great for extracting the terpenes, but isolation of the phytocannabinoids is difficult. The newer generations of the CO2 machines which operate at higher pressures are a lot more efficient at pulling the phytocannabinoids out, but then you have some potential over-fractionation of the light aromatic terpenoids.

1:53:10SpeakerYou also have potential contamination from wax when you're trying to get at higher pressures, and at a high enough pressure, around 3,000 psi, you'll actually start to see chlorophyll become soluble in CO2. So a lot of it is understanding the tools that we're using, understanding the procedures in which we're using those tools to extract different forms of cannabis that can then be used for different formulated products.

1:53:40SpeakerHow can we make this better? Obviously, we're not at a point where we have to be regulated by the FDA. That point will come. Let's hope it's not covering everything from raw flour all the way up to the extracted and isolated forms. If all goes well, it looks like obviously it would be nice to be able to do FDA trials. My lab's currently working with a couple university labs that are looking at pre-FDA trials.

1:54:07SpeakerBut taking a formulated drug through the FDA is neither easy nor cheap. It's something that we are going to see happen as technology evolves. We're going to be able to do antidotal trials currently, but as federal law or international law changes, it'll open up the door for research companies to be able to take standardized dosages and We're going to administer them to patients and see what actually happens with product safety.

1:54:40SpeakerThat's going to open up the doors to a lot of research, but unfortunately the federal government is the only one that's to blame for the unregulated, unsafe practices of businesses. If the state governments or federal governments passed rules that allowed for us to do the antidotal research, we would certainly Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:55:30SpeakerYou're making synthetic forms of cannabis, and there's reasons why we've found that including terpenes as opposed to just GW Pharmaceuticals approach of just selling isolated forms through the FDA, we've seen pros and cons with Marinol. We've seen pros and cons with whole plant extracts. There's millions or at least thousands of people that have been saved by Rick Simpson oil. Is that something I would want to smoke?

1:55:58SpeakerAbsolutely not. The chlorophyll ruins the flavor. But other extraction forms, other extraction solvents can make a smokable hash, uneatable hash, et cetera. And that's, I think, beyond what we're going to, Any one of us can say is our favorite type of hash. I think the real key is setting the example, having the radical open transparency, as Mark likes to mention, and sharing our experiences, sharing, I wouldn't say exactly our patentable technologies, but providing expertise to the public so that those amateur chemists or even potentially professional chemists So what's the pros of CO2 extraction?

1:56:40SpeakerYou didn't tell us what they were. And amen on what you just said, brother, first and foremost. It was good.

1:57:05BubblemanYeah, I was definitely loving everything that you just said. I was putting it together real nice and yeah, I think it's definitely a responsibility, all the things we talk about, but I like the way you put it, sort of like a little bit of expertise, a little bit of direction. That's all we're really trying to do on this panel is sort of talk about the different things and if we can direct a conversation in a way, hey, that's great.

1:57:30BubblemanWe definitely aren't looking to have people be harmed by what we're talking about, so Adult responsibility, I know you guys have it.

1:57:41SpeakerAnd Mark, what I've actually found, obviously CO2 is generally regarded as safe. It's been used in the decaffeination process as well as the perfume industry for decades now, but just in the running the multiple labs, multiple machines in multiple states that I've been fortunate enough to do, I've been able to find that like any other tool, The CO2 extractors, there's obviously multiple companies that we've used. There's pros and cons with each different system.

1:58:12SpeakerThe biggest con early on was their lack of being able to isolate individual phytocannabinoids. As the technology has been developed, it's come to a point where we can do supercritical fractionation of individual compounds, or we can do supercritical fractionation Thank you so much for joining us.

1:59:01SpeakerI think I caught most of it, and I think what he was sort of emphasizing was the fact that new CO2 extractions

1:59:31Dr Mark ScialdoneAll of these instruments can actually do fractionation of cannabinoids and waxes and terpenes. Is that right, Mike?

1:59:42Dr Mark ScialdoneIs he back?

1:59:43BubblemanI don't think so because his picture's not showing up.

1:59:48TonyHe probably got escorted away from the federal government since he's under camera and in Vegas.

1:59:53SpeakerIt's the Illuminati.

1:59:55TonyYeah.

1:59:55SpeakerWow. I think he overdosed on terpenes. That Illuminati is fast.

2:00:04TonyPut your camera lock and key and I'm going to tell you guys some stuff and then he's gone.

2:00:14Todd MccormickYou're going to have to get a rear view mirror installed on the coffee table so you can keep an eye watching behind you as you do Hash Church.

2:00:22BubblemanMike was making too much sense. He had to go.

2:00:26TonyWell, and about responsibility, you know, I guess I do feel, I can admit this, I do feel a little personally responsible time on the, you know, releasing it like what Skunkman Sam said. It's like I debated releasing the terpenes for a long time because of that exact reason of what's going on, and then it spreads a really unresponsible

2:00:56SpeakerI think it's interesting he talked about FDA approval of a cannabis-based drug. I figured that would cost at least $100 million in the United States. The first one to do it will probably be GW Pharmaceuticals since they've already got a couple of human clinical trials.

2:01:24Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's probably the people who went and snagged Mike, don't you think?

2:01:28TonyYeah, I do. You got GW'd. Which Mike? Well, Mike brought up a point though, Mike the guy in Vegas, but he did, so the interesting thing is, I was just like, I was reading this the other day, that the World Health Organization had reclassified cannabis, so did the UN, and the federal government is responsible. I mean, if they would You know, we can do international studies, and that's part of the reason why we had to go to Jamaica.

2:01:58SpeakerNo, no, international studies can be done in America for medical research right now, but they won't give you permission. It can be done legally by international law and American law. Well, the Sue Sisley study just got approved. Yeah, I saw that, and it was kind of unusual, wasn't it, to be approved like that? It was the first of its kind by the DEA, but it's because it's veterans and there's been such an uproaring groundswell that fortunately it's gaining some traction.

2:02:35SpeakerDon Abrams was the first one to be able to use smoked cannabis to find something good about it. Even him, the first one he got, it was to see if it interfered with AIDS patients' medication regimes. Right, because that's how all researchers had to do. They had to go out and try to find the negative. No, he first tried to get it to show that it was beneficial.

2:02:59SpeakerThey refused to give it to him, so he turned it inside out. They gave it to him. Exactly, that's what you have to do. You have to go out to... Don's an old friend of mine. ...that it's a negative, and that's the only way you'll get the money. You can't say that you're going to prove it's a positive because you won't get the funding.

2:03:15Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm getting a Schedule I license, Sam. What's that? Without getting a Schedule I license? Did Abrams have a Schedule I license? Yes, of course he did. Okay.

2:03:27SpeakerHe also had a safe to keep the cannabis in, etc., etc., etc., etc.

2:03:36Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm not certain that Sue's study requires a Schedule I license because it's under states where it's legal. I'm not sure that that requires a license.

2:03:48BubblemanBut won't she need to, are they testing? Is it just a PTSD test that they're doing with cannabis and soldiers, or are they also doing like lab testing on the material?

2:04:00SpeakerA bigger question is, is the cannabis going to be transported across straight lines? That's what I'm trying to say.

2:04:06BubblemanIf it's going back and forth from one lab to another, then there's definitely going to need some sort of Schedule I license.

2:04:12Dr Mark ScialdoneCorrect. I know that there's two clinics that are involved, one's in Maryland and one's in Arizona.

2:04:19SpeakerBingo. You've got to have a license.

2:04:21Dr Mark ScialdoneCan't go over the state line without that.

2:04:24SpeakerNo, no way. Not legally.

2:04:26Dr Mark ScialdoneBut it just so happens that in both of those states, medical programs are being built.

2:04:33TonyLet me ask you something. If you can't cross the state lines, how did, and I believe it was GW that shipped their medicine to Kansas.

2:04:41SpeakerSomething, there was a... Oh, no, that's because they're licensed to do so.

2:04:49BubblemanAnd does that material have to come from University of Mississippi like always, or is that different now?

2:04:55SpeakerNo, he was talking about GW going to Canada, yeah? I'm talking about the girl who's doing the test for PTSD. I'm not sure about Dr. Sisley's study, if she's going to be studying actually veterans using cannabis already versus if she's actually getting cannabis from... I know the DEA had to approve the testing so that they may be agreeing to release cannabis per se.

2:05:22TonyYou guys were talking about crossing state lines. What I was saying was I believe I saw GW ships their Sativex to Kansas, which is a non-medical state. For those clinical testings, then they go to another state from there for those clinicals. So somehow they're able to pass state to state with those type of clinicals and studies, and I'm sure that they would have some acceptance to be able to go from one DEA lab to another DEA lab, perhaps, kind of from state to state.

2:05:54TonyMaybe they'd go licensed DEA lab to licensed DEA lab.

2:05:59SpeakerOr to hospitals that are licensed to distribute or whatever, yeah. That's all legal.

2:06:06TonyRight.

2:06:08Dr Mark ScialdoneLegal, but a very, very dirty business. Why is it dirty? A very dirty business because, again, you've got to remember that, you know, why is it, again, that the U.S. government can have a utility patent, a utility patent which describes, again, the neuroprotective activity of cannabinoids, which basically, by definition... Again, is saying that these things have medicinal benefit is inconsistent with Schedule I listing, but it's perfectly okay for the government to get royalties and licensing revenues from this company right up the road here in Pennsylvania that's licensed that invention from the U.S. government.

2:06:53Dr Mark ScialdoneDirty business.

2:06:55SpeakerIt's much worse than that. For example, Marinol is, if you look at the official description of it, it's Dernabinol, which is a synthetic THC in a soft gelatin capsule mixed with sesame oil. And me and a pharmaceutical company in the UK, not GW, another one, Made a generic copy of Marinol. So it was exactly the same. It had the exact same amount of THC. It was in sesame oil.

2:07:28SpeakerIt was in a soft gelatin capsule. But after three years of attempting, the company gave up approval process because the DEA refused to approve it saying that it's from natural THC, not synthetic.

2:07:46Todd MccormickJeez. It's amazing the barriers they've put up along the way, every step of the way. It really is astonishing.

2:07:55BubblemanWhile themselves seemingly moving pieces on the board.

2:07:59Todd MccormickYeah, absolutely.

2:08:00SpeakerThey'll have to change the law when GW's product gets approval, because it is extracted from a plant, and it is natural THC, but it's THC and CBD that's even extracted.

2:08:23SpeakerSo I know they were actually issuing some warning letters. Obviously, I'm sure everybody read the news about that. There were several companies, both from the US as well as abroad, that were selling isolated CBD from hemp across state lines. From what I can tell, the FDA issued warning letters saying that you cannot make medical claims. Thank you for joining us today.

2:09:08SpeakerThe FDA is obligated then to not allow other companies to make medical claims on that natural drug. Now, I may not approve of that approach because CBD is a natural occurring phytocannabinoid that occurs naturally and affects a naturally occurring endocannabinoid receptor. So for them to actually try and stop all of the CBD producers from distributing CBD just because it's being researched, it's a little bit repressive of the U.S. government because it prevents other companies from actually doing that antidotal research.

2:09:49SpeakerThe comment earlier about Sue Sisley's, obviously when she originally started doing her research, she did not have access to the University of Mississippi's supply. So she ended up doing antidotal evidence collection, the same as was done with a couple of the epilepsy research groups out of Colorado. The difficult part is since there's no standardized medicine that's been standardized through testing, the FDA kind of has some objections to cannabis that's produced in the state's licensed systems because obviously it's not Thank you for joining us.

2:10:37SpeakerBut if those labs want to do any product, they would have to get it approved by the FDA, IND, and then source their material from the University of Mississippi. And why do that when facilities like ours are cultivating 80 plus different hybrids that contain over three dozen different phytocannabinoid, terpenoid ratios? So a lot of what we're seeing is that the federal government's falling behind what private companies are producing in their own private labs.

2:11:10SpeakerI spent four years at university trying to do research and just got stonewalled across the board just because I wanted to study the endocannabinoid roles in epilepsy. My sister had epilepsy. That's something that's close to my heart. The fact that it is nearly impossible to get approved But simultaneously you can open up a medical company or work with medical companies and do all that research, just not have the government oversight is lackluster of the federal government, if you will.

2:11:44SpeakerIf you would think that the government would want to promote research, that way we can have a revolution on modern phytocannabinoid pharmacology, but the longer that the feds hold out on regulating it, either as a Schedule II, Schedule III, or descheduled, The more and more that the private industry is going to have to do that research themselves, and unfortunately the more that that's going to lead to private companies that are developing proprietary technology that isn't publicly available or public knowledge.

2:12:17SpeakerThat's one of the reasons why I love Ash Church so much. I can't comprehend the amount of knowledge that has been shared over the past year and Constantly telling labs that I'm either consulting or training that they need to start expanding their knowledge. It doesn't matter what type of ash is produced, but if they want to be on the cutting edge, you have to stay up to date because the technology is evolving so rapidly.

2:12:44SpeakerAnd in the absence of government oversight, it's the industry pushing itself. You've seen CO2 extracting companies and also ABHO extracting companies constantly improving their designs and concepts and ideas by actively listening to the consumer and having that direct base. But, I mean, Mike, it's got to be absolutely frustrating to have gone through the entire process of learning how to do things right, how to do science, and get constantly stonewalled and pissed on.

2:13:16SpeakerJust for bringing forth the idea, was it your professors that stonewalled you? Was it just you learned the system was just corrupt along the way and that you just had to go solo? Because I know there's other scientists and lab people that are sitting here watching and going, well, why did I spend all this money and go through school and get this doctorate and all in the end I have to just go into the private markets?

2:13:42SpeakerWell, if you look at the way that the research on cannabis is done, it's relatively easy to get approved to do a research study to find the harms of cannabis. There's been numerous studies researching, oh, is cannabis bad for your lungs? Is cannabis bad for your heart? Does cannabis make teens stupider? And it's easy to kind of get approved to do the research on potential harms of cannabis, but...

2:14:11SpeakerWhat we have is a historical ignorance that has plagued the cannabis and the phytocannabinoid and pharmaceutical industries. You have to realize that when Nixon was, in the 1970s when Nixon was fighting the war on drug and launching the war on drug, They still had, you know, Raphael Mishulam had only started to identify the phytocannabinoids. It wasn't until the 80s and 90s that we started identifying the endocannabinoid receptors, which are the neuroregulators for our neurons.

2:14:45SpeakerI'm constantly talking to doctors, even today, that have no idea what the endocannabinoid system are because they didn't learn it in medical school. So, you have a constant education that not only activists and researchers have to do, but private companies have to do in order to educate doctors that, yes, there is an endocannabinoid system, here's all the research that's been done abroad or by private companies, and that's only now starting to scratch the surface on educating doctors so that they feel comfortable.

2:15:21SpeakerI've seen some interesting published papers looking at would doctors like to see medical cannabis legalized or by prescription or whatever. Most doctors are for medical use of cannabis, but they have obvious concerns about inhalation of potential tards and carcinogens from burning plant matter. They have other concerns about The side effects of cannabis affecting other potential pain meds, et cetera, we know that's not going to pan out just because of the biopharmacological effects of cannabis and cannabis oils.

2:15:57SpeakerBut obviously, like was mentioned earlier, there could be some good and could be some potential concerns about cannabis. I don't think that smoking a 10% terpene in hash is not going to be dangerous. Terrified of potential benzenes that could be found in the artificial terpenes. When you're extracting the artificial or all natural terpenes that are not made from cannabis, we don't know how those are made. They could be made with hexane, they could be made with benzene, etc.

2:16:33SpeakerAnd a lot of those artificial, not for human consumption terpenes, Don't have to fall under the same regulated space that poor human consumption products are. So when you just go on Amazon and buy the cheapest terpene in there because you want your dab pen or oil to be super flavorful, you don't know what that 2%, 98% is your terpenes, but what's that 2%? It may be hexane.

2:17:00SpeakerIt may be all sorts of other classes of hydrocarbons or potentially dangerous chemicals and

2:17:10BubblemanWell, we know what it is. It's mystery oil. Mystery oil. I have a question for you, Mike, in regards to the terpenes. And even for human consumption, that's not being inhaled into the lungs.

2:17:26SpeakerYes and no. Obviously, aromatherapy has been around since ancient Greco-Roman times. There's numerous different documented cases where they would actually use either extracted plants or essential oils to actually aromatize different temples in ancient Greece. When you're throwing plant matter onto a campfire that's going to release those essential oils into the air in an enclosed space, people are going to naturally be breathing those in. There's a lot of cases where you'll see steam baths and saunas, people will actually infuse terpenes into atomizers and pump it in the air.

2:18:14SpeakerAnd in low dosages, from what we can tell, most of them are relatively safe. Where you start getting concern is what's called long-term chronic acute sensitivity. So smoking lemonine that's naturally found in cannabis or even drinking lemonine that's found in orange juice is not going to be bad. But if you are using lemonine as a cleaning solvent without wearing gloves, you're going to dry out your hands.

2:18:47SpeakerJust like if you're using other solvents without the safety protocol, obviously you want to make sure that all of your products are nice and safe, right? You don't want human hairs in the hash, you don't want harmful chemicals in the hash, and you don't want any of that contamination to potentially endanger your customers. Like it or not, even though the federal government is not regulating us yet, any company that is selling a product opens themselves up to potential civil lawsuits if we harm people.

2:19:25SpeakerAnd that's, if you're selling Rick Simpson oil that has tons of microbes in it, if you're selling bubble hash that has not been tested for microbes or it's contaminated with potential pesticides, same with solvent extracted hash. The big one I know we were talking about a couple weeks ago was idemichlorid, a chlorine-based molecule that at temperatures, I believe, above 700 degrees degrades into the age of orange, Dr. Mark.

2:19:52SpeakerChlorine gas, you don't want to be inhaling chlorine gas.

2:19:59Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, it just degrades into noxious materials that you don't want to be inhaling. I think if there's a chloro in there, you're probably going to have hydrochloric acid But that molecule is rich in nitrogen and a lot of those nitrogen containing compounds just aren't thermally stable and would much rather degrade.

2:20:21SpeakerAnd you see that processing for lots of farms, my lab up in Washington specializes in processing for other producers. Now if we process for a dozen or a hundred Thank you so much for joining us.

2:21:02SpeakerNow, there still may be potential harmful microbes, but the state requires testing for that, and anything that would have any potential microbial contamination could not be used for the dry sift and bubble hash because the potential carryover of those microbes. That said, you can still, worst case scenario, if people are spraying chlorinated or fluorinated pesticides on their plants, You could potentially remove those if you have the right tools, the right equipment.

2:21:36SpeakerDoes that mean everybody should start going in spraying chlorinated or fluorinated compounds on the plants? Absolutely not. It's irresponsible. It's stupid. It's going to ruin your reputation as a business. That said, if you happen to have a pest infestation because you're growing outdoors in Cali, There's ways that you can extract those essential oils or the vitacannabinoids and put them to medical use. But you never want to do that without guaranteeing safety and minimizing the risk to your company by using those tests that are publicly available in most states that have licensing.

2:22:19BubblemanBAMO. There it is in a nutshell, people. Be responsible.

2:22:24SpeakerI think that's totally true, Mark, being responsible on the consumer level. Places like this are really doing a part of providing people with enough education to, like, realize that they have to do the research. So, you know, I hear you guys talking about ethics and questioning your own ethics, but really, you know, at the base level, there's the ethics of how you consume it. It has to decide whether they're going to put something close to their body or the cheapest thing that they can buy.

2:22:55SpeakerAnd that some of them, you know, most of us would be without rather than put something close to our body. And that's, to me, that's the base ethics of this question that we're going to be talking about.

2:23:09BubblemanStill cutting out a little bit, Marcel. I think it would be better if you had headphones and a little, like, I don't know, it might be the microphone on your computer. You might have to, like, go closer to it because you're... I don't know, it's hard to say. You were talking and it was kind of going loud and then it was going quiet. I could definitely hear what you were saying, but everyone having their mics muted is definitely helpful so that there's no reverberation.

2:23:42SpeakerCome close, Marcel. Now I'm the giant head.

2:23:49SpeakerCool, man. Are you guys... So, do you want me to re-say what I just said, or... No, it's now you're really chopping up.

2:23:59BubblemanTell him to turn his own volume down. Maybe. He needs to mute his own mic? No, his mic is what he's talking through.

2:24:12SpeakerSo, if I turn my volume down, does that help?

2:24:15BubblemanTodd has his headphone in.

2:24:20BubblemanShould I put my headphones on? Make everyone put headphones on and see if it works better?

2:24:25TonyIt works way better.

2:24:26BubblemanDo you have headphones, Marcel? Uh, like just for speaker? Yeah, just like headphones that you can plug into your computer and that way, uh, When the voices come through, they're not getting picked up by your mic.

2:24:44Todd MccormickThis is why in radio stations they have to use them so there's no loop. And we run into it all the time.

2:24:52SpeakerI see. Let me go look for some.

2:24:56BubblemanAll right, brother.

2:24:59BubblemanBrain milk, no bugs, mixed with water. What's the chat room saying? We've got a bunch of people in chat going off.

2:25:09BubblemanI can hear my son crying in the other room. Sunday, he's waiting for dad to come out of church. Go jump on the trampoline with him. Talia, feel young again having a young child.

2:25:30Dr Mark ScialdoneWait till they get older.

2:25:31BubblemanWell, I have a 15 and a 13-year-old. Wait till they get older. Yeah.

2:25:38BubblemanYeah, always, I guess.

2:25:41Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, like when they're dabbing age. Then it becomes interesting when you cross that bridge.

2:25:47BubblemanWell, my two-year-old just started dabbing. I'm joking. My kids do not dab. They are dab free. How old are yours now, Mark?

2:25:59Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, I got an 18-year-old and a 14-year-old. 18 and a 14? I'm sorry, 19-year-old. I'm 19 now. Oh, my gosh. Jesus Christ. Time flies when you're having fun.

2:26:11BubblemanYeah, little people. True breeding.

2:26:17BubblemanPeople always ask me if I'm a breeder. I'm like, well, in a certain way I am. What are you saying there, Johnny B?

2:26:31BubblemanPardon me? I said, what are you saying there, Johnny B?

2:26:35SpeakerOh, I was just, I was talking with, when I was at 420, I met these people and it was called Craft. Homegrown is where the heart is. Oh, yeah, I've seen that, I've seen that.

2:26:47BubblemanAre they local BC?

2:26:48SpeakerYeah, they're local BC. This is why Craft Cannabis, because choice is important. The future of Canadian cannabis regulation is up to us. Big corporations are setting to corner the legalized cannabis market. We are standing up for consumers' choice, strong local, sensible production. We believe that cannabis is an important part of our society, our maintenance, our health, and our thriving economy. Craftcannabis.ca. And I've watched their video and it's, you know what, they've got some good intentions.

2:27:20SpeakerThey're just, it's about the plant. It's just, That's what it's about, and they're really standing up for our right to be able to continue to consume and use our plant as we choose to do it. And it's a good little organization that I'm kind of really supporting right now. I like their direction.

2:27:36BubblemanYeah, I hit them up a while ago, and I haven't heard back from them. Just sort of thought it was a cool little concept, and it seemed a little bit different from the standard dispensary anti-LP, although they did still have the classic... Big corporations are standing to corner the market. I think that we need to be focused on Health Canada more so than, because they're dividing us, right?

2:27:58BubblemanIt's like, I like the idea of someone being more focused on Health Canada is creating this division. And it's like, in the end, whenever they create a division, it's to divide and conquer. And then we end up, you know, arguing with ourselves, which is the LPs and the dispensaries. I can't wait to see a day where there's a model that's involved where you and I can grow our own medicine, the dispensaries and the LPs can do their thing, and the guys that want to grow more than just their medicine can be involved in some way or another as well.

2:28:31BubblemanAnd how could a system that creates that be a bad thing? Just don't over-regulate it.

2:28:37SpeakerAnd that's what Craft Cannabis is about. It's about everybody.

2:28:40BubblemanYeah.

2:28:41SpeakerRight, it's a plant and let's just like free this plant and let the government do what we want to do with it. You know, just let it thrive and let it change this world like it is right now.

2:28:48BubblemanWhat's their website?

2:28:50SpeakerWe need it. On the back here, they're at Craft Canvas BC on Twitter, they're on Facebook, Craft C-A-B-C and their website is... It doesn't really say on here right now. I think that's what they've got going on.

2:29:04BubblemanWell, they can check them out on Facebook. Maybe you could post their Facebook page in Hash Church there, and then people can find them in the Hash Church group, and they can do their own research and see if they want to be involved somehow. I'm not exactly sure what they're doing, but they're creating some sort of an organization. It's cool. It seems like they're They want to do the like craft beer but craft cannabis, you know, let the little guy exist.

2:29:28SpeakerYeah, let everybody exist in this industry and just, you know, let this plant be a part of our existence. So it's, they're not out to sell anything or nothing, they're just trying to draw education and make the governments make the right choices to allow us to continue doing what we're doing. Beautiful. And it's just, it's cool, I like it, you know what I mean, it's exactly what we're all about here and it's about this plant.

2:29:51SpeakerDefinitely a good support group here in BC and hopefully it will just move on to each individual province or in all of Canada and push our governments to make the right choices with their new changes coming up with legalization in 2017. And plus with the government having to make choices on our right to continue growing as medical patients by August 24th. So there's a lot of stuff on the plate and we're all waiting patiently but at the same time Drawing awareness to what the government is doing is always a good start of making the government make great choices, hopefully, for us patients and others who want to consume this plant.

2:30:27SpeakerAbsolutely. And Morphy's had to jump up here, and he had to jump up and say hello. Now he jumped away. He's like, hey, I'm done. He left.

2:30:37TonySo, where's Aaron? We haven't heard a long rep. All day, I don't think.

2:30:46BubblemanDarren was in here earlier. He let out a bong rip or two. He was definitely, I don't know where he went.

2:30:51SpeakerHe went out for a wedding, I mean a birthday party for a two-year-old.

2:30:57BubblemanOh, shit. Did I miss that?

2:30:59SpeakerI think we all did. I think he just typed it in and left. That's what he did.

2:31:04TonyI don't know. Well, I'm going to be doing a little, you know, A little bong rip drop. I feel it's safe. I hope that you do too, bubble man. The little mixture that you made that looks so yummy. I did the same thing, so I'm going to try to enjoy a bong rip right now.

2:31:33BubblemanWhat I did enjoy about that little mixture was that it seemed to change the effects of How the terpenes were experienced, and I was surprised at it actually, and a few people that I shared it with also were surprised. It was just more like preserved or something. It didn't have that little bit of a... It was smooth and velvety. That's all I can really describe it as.

2:32:00TonyYeah, I definitely... I definitely was playing more with it. I made a... Made a little turf distillate, if you will. We were doing this with the solvent-free, making an ACDC crystallate. That's what I was doing with Goldrop, and the turpentine's in it. It did well at the Cup and HempCon, but this is a solventless turf distillate from Rosin.

2:32:29BubblemanThat looks like utter bunk.

2:32:32TonyIt looks like what?

2:32:34BubblemanHa ha! I said that looks like utter bunk, right?

2:32:39TonyI'm trying to appeal, and you know what, Todd? If it wasn't for BHO, look at what I have. I have one that looks like oil, and I have one that looks like a butter.

2:32:50Todd MccormickIf it wasn't for, They both look delicious.

2:32:54TonyAnd it's inspired by our community, you know, and in the BHO world, butters and live resins and cake batters and oils exist, so, This is for you, buddy. Maybe we should hang out today and smoke out. It's a beautiful day, bro.

2:33:13Todd MccormickYou're always welcome to.

2:33:17TonyI'm very close to you. I'm going to take my dog to the park and maybe come by. I didn't like the way we started our Sunday.

2:33:29Todd MccormickIt's not a problem. You know, I'm glad we're on the same page about seeing the same side of it.

2:33:38Todd MccormickYou know, it's good to have open conversation about the different concerns we have because I think a lot of people are listening and it's just a collective consciousness that I think trying to promote the right thing, do the right thing people, looks good.

2:33:57SpeakerCome on, you two, tell the truth. You're like professional wrestlers. It's all just a stage act.

2:34:07Todd MccormickYeah, totally choreographed for it.

2:34:10TonyIt's a script beforehand, like the WWF and the WWE. It's just like wrestling. It's okay. This is the script for the day. You guys, you're going to be wrestling for the first 20 minutes, and then we're going to shift over to this, and we've got technical difficulties, and people are going to get taken away by the rise at B. All that's scripted.

2:34:37SpeakerDing, ding, now get high.

2:34:44TonyYou can't script task. It's the ultimate implement. It's the ultimate improvisation. There's no script to it.

2:34:59BubblemanOh, are we puffing bowls? Jesus. We're puffing bowls. Pull them, Rip. I got all lost there for a second. Let me pull out a little Purple Candy 90 micron here.

2:35:19SpeakerAnd I just posted the post group on House Church. All right. Thank you, brother. If you think about it, Tony... All churches have scripture.

2:35:37TonyI miss your one-liners, man. They were funny in Spain.

2:35:43BubblemanYou really got to pay attention to get all of his... Are you watching Hash Church? Is that Todd?

2:35:50Todd MccormickSorry. I was trying to... I forgot I wasn't muted. I apologize, everybody. I'd like to blame the cannabis, but it's really my fault.

2:36:04Todd MccormickWell, now that everybody's quiet, I'm just kind of emphasizing my mistake. Imagine that, smoking in church. Just kidding. I'm glad we had this conversation today, to be honest. Yeah, I'm really glad this kind of came up and we got to talk about this. I mean, me and Mel Frank have been having the conversation more and I really think that it's a burden and a blessing in a way that the CO2 pens are taking over so much but it kind of sucks how people are so quick to cut corners and just dilute the product in order to make it more palatable.

2:36:46Todd MccormickSo I'm really glad that we had this conversation today and people think about it.

2:36:51TonyWell, I always say, if something is so much deeper than something that you know and trust comes to you, it's done right. And again, why is that so much deeper? The only reason why it's so much deeper is there's something deeper in the potency of the quality, and there's something that is not being measured deeply. You know what I mean? There's something, if it's that far off, And you should question that.

2:37:23TonyHey, check out this cannabis-derived pen, this cartridge. It's $12 for half a gram, and it tastes like pina colada.

2:37:36SpeakerYou know? Like, that would be a really good one.

2:37:42BubblemanPina colada?

2:37:44TonyNot that. Something that, like, isn't cannabis. You know, and if it's that much cheaper, there's something weird.

2:37:53BubblemanAnd this takes me back to even before the extracts and before the fucking Terps, and it was like the High Times Magazine selling the fake bud. It was like, oh yeah, you just get this fake bud. You live in Oklahoma? Well, you better buy this fake bud. And they were selling this shit by the fucking pallet. This company was literally spending like $40,000 a month on advertisements in High Times, full-page advertisements, like 11 of them or whatever.

2:38:19BubblemanIt was pretty fucking nuts. I'm sure you remember it, Todd.

2:38:24SpeakerWasn't that the Pretendica stuff?

2:38:26BubblemanPretendica, oh yeah. Then they did all the weird hashes like the Red Leba News and like just weird names to like, it was just bad. It always freaked me out.

2:38:37SpeakerWhat if all of that is actually real and they just marketed it as Pretendica?

2:38:43TonyThey're like, oh yeah, it's fake, but it's not real, it's not anything. They had full banking, they had full shipping, they shipped it everywhere.

2:38:51SpeakerYeah, they were in high times. The cops order everything in high times just to see. Don't kid yourself.

2:38:59TonyThat's funny. That'd be funny though.

2:39:03SpeakerIt's like people always ask me, hey, should I order those seats from the back of high times?

2:39:12BubblemanDon't do it. Don't do it.

2:39:17BubblemanI always liked the Hemp 100. I always looked for little fun little things that I appreciated in the Hemp 100.

2:39:24SpeakerThat was really the most interesting thing about it too. I mean, the earlier set, the ones in the 70s had actually good writing, but by the time I got turned on to it in the 80s, it had gone to shit. Right.

2:39:40BubblemanOh my God. The funniness of it all. I got a guy who's called me out on YouTube. He's called out Remo. I don't even know what he called me out about, but he's got a big ego. He's in the chat room right now talking about what an amazing grower he is and where his pot is available. He's actually, after calling me out, coming to my channel and using it as a place to advertise his cannabis sales.

2:40:04BubblemanI shake my head. I digress.

2:40:09TonyYeah, you know, it's like... Part of the business, part of the industry, it's how our culture communicates. Some people say that different cultures are aggressive or not aggressive or introverted in the way that they communicate with each other, especially male on male. Rams, they go full speed and buck any better, and they have their form of communication. But in our industry, it's They come into your chat room, they come onto your threads, they come onto your post to anti-campaign against you.

2:40:49TonyAnd then after they get all that attention, they go, oh, by the way, ahem, ahem, ahem. I'm doing this, and this is going on. We're not even the type of people that would even care if you did that. If you just did it in a different way, if you're like, hey, that's really awesome. I'm really glad, and much respect. I started doing this kind of thing, too, or I started doing terpenes.

2:41:13TonyI just wanted to let you know, or I have this. It's like, cool. That's a good way to share, and that's the way the community should react. Instead, it's like, fuck you. You're a rip-off. You sell these fucking bags and blah, blah, blah, and then somebody comes right in, and that same guy, he's got the stage, and he's like, I've got the same bags for just a little bit less.

2:41:36TonyFYI, here's a link. Just want to direct you over to my stuff on your own feed. So it's just a way of communication, and it's poor, and it's juvenile, and it's really, really weird, and I think people just need to, like, I don't know, just fucking grow up and just be an adult and be embracing to your brothers in the industry, especially your elders or anybody that's come before you, and just be like, much respect, you know, glad to be here, and this is what's, I respect what you're doing, and this is what I'm doing, and embrace each other.

2:42:11BubblemanI like the way Brett Maverick put it. You suck, B-man, but since no one knows who I am, I'm going to use your audience to push my hate video and sell my herb.

2:42:24BubblemanBam. Gotta get Brett Maverick on here one time. He's like the hardest guy to get on Hash Church. He's like, ah, I just want to watch it, you know. I get a hundred people a week ask me to have him on, but he's like, ah, you know, I just want to watch. I don't need to come on. You gotta come on one time, Brett. You're hilarious.

2:42:42TonyI always liked Brett. I met him when he was very young in Denver once upon a time when I was still there and with... A group there, we had a greenhouse and he came in and I remember him from Seattle because the laws weren't quite ready yet. And when we talk about the look on people's faces, it's always really cool to see like when somebody walks into a city in an industrial zone and you have a 20,000 square foot greenhouse with like 40 gallon plants, you know, in a situation where it doesn't matter where you come from as a grower and you're in the underground and you're like state's not legal yet.

2:43:19TonyWe're just becoming. I think it's inspiring and it's cool to see what that does. I always looked up to him because he was somebody that would push the envelope on extracts, especially in the BHO world. I remember before he posted his video about using a Buckner funnel and de-waxing, people were not doing that. A lot of people weren't doing it. Some people might have been doing it, but it definitely spread a lot of awareness.

2:43:46TonyIt cleaned up a lot of medicine. I've always had a lot of respect for him. We should have him on sometime.

2:43:55BubblemanWell, I think I should have a bong rip is what I should have.

2:44:01BubblemanA bong rip.

2:44:04SpeakerAll right. We have to. You guys hear me a little bit better now? Yeah. You're pretty good. What are you hitting out of today? Who, me? Yeah, you master glassblower. What the fuck are you hitting on? I'm hitting out of a spoon that I made out of a center of a montage bong that Dosh and I were working on. So, it's actually a really nice spoon. I'll show it to you.

2:44:30BubblemanI'm hitting out of a spoon.

2:44:31SpeakerOf course, he gets lazy back there on the couch. Uh-huh, we see you.

2:44:35TonyHe's like, let me grab two people to bring the spoon in.

2:44:37SpeakerI thought they couldn't see me. No, it's, uh... It says fume sections, and then there's an orange stripe that's covered in UV in there. It was going to be in the middle of a bong, but it got a little swirled together. There wasn't enough contrast in it to be the centerpiece of a major expedition, so I just turned it into a spoon, and now I puff out of it.

2:45:05SpeakerWhat are you puffing out of it? I think that's the... I think it's some sour diesel-y sort of number seven mix. The jar says KD7 on it, I'm pretty sure. Kush Diesel's number seven. I'm not even, here I am on Hash Church and I'm not sure what I'm smoking on. It's really good though, once again. I brought some of the Millie ends that I've been working on.

2:45:43SpeakerBecause we've been building all these millies with the glory hole, and they're coming out to these kind of massive chunks. Like this is the butt end of the skull. That's the skull from the other day? Yeah. Holy shit, dude. This is just the end couple of inches.

2:46:02BubblemanI watched them make that on a video that they did, a live Facebook video, and I was kind of like, I didn't know what you were making until you ended up, Going back to that piece of paper that said 20 easy steps. 20 easy steps. It's a skull millie. And it was like anything but easy. It was the most fucking chaotic thing. I was like, oh my God, Jessica's going to get burned.

2:46:25BubblemanShe has no things on her arms. And boom, that guy's just, Marcel's walking around with big globes of fucking molten hot glass. People are just going in every direction. It seemed like the most insane organized fucking chaos ever.

2:46:41SpeakerEver. So we were making a loaf of this and it basically starts, each of these eye pieces start off as a chunk of glass like the size of a pint glass. Oh no. So this is the end of what was, I think we cut, let's see, five, four times four. We had about 18 inches of prime and then the two butt ends. So this is one of the butt ends and then this is a chunk of prime.

2:47:10SpeakerYou can see it's got the image on this end and then basically the same image on the other end. So it goes all the way through. And this is what we draw down to create... The coins. So here's, we took a piece, last night, we took a piece of this prime here, which you can see it's the head, the skull component, so you've got the teeth, you have from the teeth to the eyes here, and then on this one we, we added the cranium component on top and a little bit to the jaw underneath.

2:47:49SpeakerThis one has a, uh,

2:47:54SpeakerThere's an air bubble in the lip. This is right off the very end. You can see that's the finished skull in its basic form, but we have the, because we have this component, we can do all the different, like, graphics inside the skull. We have four more, or three more attempts with this prime section. So it's been, it was wild. I mean, it's wild glass blowing with the, Using the furnaces to create Millie like that.

2:48:30BubblemanYeah, I was, I wouldn't have known what the fuck you guys were doing, just slapping glass all over the thing. I was just like, what is it that they are doing? And then boom, oh, a skull, okay, well, we'll see how this turns out. It's going to be a big fucking skull.

2:48:44SpeakerYeah, it really is. The mass of glass that we cracked off the end of the pipe, like what we put in the kiln was 18.3 pounds.

2:48:55SpeakerYeah, and that, you know, we were holding that on the end of a five foot, five foot punty, which was like, my big punty is an inch and a quarter diameter stem. So like, you know, pretty, it's like a pipe, not really like a handle, like most glass blowers or a smaller piece would be used. And 18 pounds, and when it's hot, it like, It gets off center, so you're literally like picking that 18 pounds up by twisting the pipe the whole time that you're working it.

2:49:29SpeakerAnd then you can barely get it on the balance point, and then it'll go the other way, and you flip it back, and it's constantly just trying to balance it on a center point. So sometimes it gets really super-duper physical.

2:49:42BubblemanIt looked pretty physical. I don't know how many people you had working on that, but it was definitely like it looked physical.

2:49:50SpeakerYeah.

2:49:50BubblemanYou had the chair, dude. You, like, had the chair and you were just, like, telling people kind of what to do and, yeah, okay, right on. I was just like, fuck, what an in... I'm not usually into watching, like, industrial processes, but that... I watched for quite a while. The only real thing that I would say as if you really want to engage your audience is Whoever's filming, have them talking to the audience and answering questions and explaining what's going on because it really creates the interactive aspect of those Facebook Live videos and you'll have thousands of people watching live before you know it.

2:50:26SpeakerHeck yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. That's definitely a good idea.

2:50:29BubblemanYeah, that's a key part for sure. Heck yeah. So someone asked, what is a Millie?

2:50:39SpeakerA Millie is...

2:50:42SpeakerA piece of cane that has an image going through the middle of it like this. So this is one end, this is the other end, and this is the side. So I can stretch this down into a smaller diameter bar like this one. Like this one. He just has a giant bar, millibar. By putting it in the kiln and heats it and then you pull it and you stretch it.

2:51:07SpeakerYeah, exactly. And so this right here, this is our most recent coin. So that's a raw broken edge, so it's hard to really see. Oh, I see, yeah. So once it's that type of consistency, then I can slice it and I can have hundreds of images like this coin here. What do you use to slice it? It's a diamond saw blade. So... We have a really awesome wet saw that was donated to us by Nortel Machinery, actually.

2:51:42SpeakerSo it's really a privilege to cut these things lately. The first saw was this old ramshackle Harbor Freight thing, and it was not as nice. Yeah, it caused chipping, et cetera, right? Yeah, and you lose a lot. The cut was like about twice as thick, and the blade wasn't very stable on that saw.

2:52:03BubblemanHmm. Interesting. Yeah, I saw you posted a video of that saw. I was like, Marcel's such a hilarious geek. He's like nerding out on his glass saw. He's like, I'm stoked on my glass saw. I'm like, right on. That's fucking great. Heck yeah.

2:52:22SpeakerYeah, no, it's really, you know, one of the things that we're doing here that's fun about going live is showing the equipment that we're using for, you know, other glassblowers and stuff to be inspired to create their Their own work in different ways. The scale that we're working the Borough Mill is fairly unprecedented. And using the oxygen-fired glory hole, I mean, I've been doing that for a while, but it's been really amazing to engage with this Millie thing because it's probably the first thing I've done with it that's really been like,

2:53:01SpeakerI guess financially worth it to a certain extent. It's getting its use. It's always been this really cool piece of equipment that's good for prep, but finished objects. It's weird because it's so big and clunky. It heats so much. It's hard to work around. But it's really capable of fine work, especially in this way with the Millies. So it's been really fun to work with it and with the team.

2:53:32BubblemanWe're going to have to get a Hash Church fucking coin going.

2:53:38SpeakerI would love to make a Hash Church coin. We should figure out some specifics of exactly how we would want to work it. But I think that it would be a really cool addition to the system.

2:53:51BubblemanThat would be fun for sure. Once I get my new logo done, I'll involve some of the panelists that have been here since day one. And so yeah, come up with a cool little coin. I still got my first one. Always close by. Nice. Always close by.

2:54:16SpeakerYeah, this is the most recent one. It's a... Let's see, can you guys see that? Yeah. So this one is... A 3.3, it goes, this one links with the second edition one. So here's the second.

2:54:38SpeakerAnd so this is the 33, and then this is the 3.3. So they're kind of fractaling off of each other, and this one uses the prep that was left over from this one. Nice. So it's different values in the system, but it's... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:55:13SpeakerAlthough there isn't a lot of official stuff going on with it in terms of like, oh, we're publishing, there's definitely an active trade network of people who are interested and inspired by the project that are stepping in and finding ways to engage in it. Because really the engagement of just... Choosing to do something and to use, you know, it's not about money so much as it's about things going to the right places where they'll be utilized to their highest and best use and I've been, you know, we've really been seeing people inspired to do that and seeing positive change happening in that way all along so when people even consider approaching the coins, You know, I really see it opening other avenues just along the way.

2:56:06SpeakerLike, oh, just by having the thought, people are excited to do more.

2:56:11BubblemanYou can buy your rosin with it, someone said. And someone also said, where can we get these current ones? But a lot of people vested an interest in getting a little hash church. I like the idea of having a little coin out there that's like a real collectible piece and You know, the fact that it could be used for trade is really cool as well, but I really just like the basic idea of a hash church coin being like, you know, if people want to be in, you know, get a little kind of cool little thing, I can't really imagine, it's way cooler than a t-shirt or a hat, that's for damn sure.

2:56:45SpeakerRight, absolutely, you know, and I think that the tradability of it is, Is awesome because you basically are taking, you know, you're storing your resource in a way that supports the things that you're passionate about. And, you know. A hash church coin should maybe have a trichome on one side and a dab on the other side.

2:57:12TonyYou should be able to dab with it.

2:57:17SpeakerThat would be nice. A two-sided coin is a whole extra level of complexity. It's possible. I've been collecting silver and gold cannabis coins for several decades. I must have 50 of them, different ones. Oh, wow. Awesome. Do they make ounce silver coins and stuff like that? Absolutely, yes. Awesome. Heck yeah, that's cool. I mean, I think any kind of value that's measurable and meterable that's outside of the petrodollar is a positive thing.

2:57:58SpeakerYou know, whether it's a rosin product or a hash or herb or glass or time, you know, however you can measure it, if you need to exchange it, is positive.

2:58:15Todd MccormickYeah, that whole grow flowers and trade it for anything in the world thing was pretty awesome epiphany for a young teenager.

2:58:30Todd MccormickIt was, honestly, no hopes of a future when you're really, really poor, but suddenly you can grow some flowers in your friggin' closet.

2:58:37TonyIt just was a mindfuck, really.

2:58:41Todd MccormickI mean, you know, for the longest time, I mean, I started growing in 1984. And, you know, gold for the longest time was under 400 an ounce. So through the 80s and through the 90s, it blew me away that something I could grow in my closet, you know, like, you know, two plus months with a cure was worth more than an ounce of gold. And how long did Mother Nature take to make an ounce of gold?

2:59:07Todd MccormickYou know, it was a little more than two months with a cure, I think.

2:59:12SpeakerI remember wandering frat land in Corvallis trying to sell pipes, and the epiphany I had was, you grew it, I blew it. Because frat boys are not buying heavy pipes, I can tell you that. At least they weren't in 1998, 1996. So it's pretty linked, the whole glass thing and the herb thing.

2:59:38SpeakerOurs has been.

2:59:42BubblemanI agree. I've seen that a lot on, obviously on Fish Tour. You've seen guys slinging glass. I myself sold some glass on Fish Tour. I remember going out east with a bunch of Pedro Smiley hammers and bubblers and man, if I didn't sell that shit. People were like, you have Pedro Smiley? I was like, man, how the fuck do you guys even know about this? It's like their own underground fucking cult.

3:00:06BubblemanNo. It's awesome.

3:00:09SpeakerWell, I mean, it's all about, I mean, you guys had a whole social scene back then, you know, despite all the, like, crazy laws and stuff. Like, it was easier for us to have a social scene than you guys. But, you know, I'd be honored to make a hash church coin for you.

3:00:31BubblemanWell, we'll talk about it outside of church some more for sure, because I like the idea. We've talked about it in church enough times, and when I mentioned that, a lot of people said in the chat room that that would be something that they would be interested in, so we'll figure it out.

3:00:50SpeakerYeah, if people are looking to get the coins, Jessica Boggs, At Jessica Boggs Glass on Instagram or find her on Facebook to DM her. Or if you're, you can DM me as well, but she's more prompt on her responses. So that would be my suggestion.

3:01:14BubblemanPerfect.

3:01:18BubblemanHeck yeah. Someone talk, I need him.

3:01:24Dr Mark ScialdoneI just wanted to add that, you know, I think the plant has taught economics to a lot of us, you know, in a lot of different ways. And so, you know, if you're out slinging glass on fish tour, you know, bubble man, you certainly had to experience, you know, again, how to provide a service that people need. And so, you know, I was always... Happy to support glass artists in the parking lots of first the Grateful Dead and then Fish shows just because these were artisans who were looking to further their adventures on the road by selling their artwork and their artwork was actually a functional item that you could actually walk away from.

3:02:11Dr Mark ScialdoneSo again, I think there's a textbook on the economics, the Grateful Dead economics, the parking lot of the, the economics of the parking lot of the Grateful Dead. And I think that that spilled over into fish, Mark, certainly. I mean, I think that's what you're talking about, being able to just open up a Pelican Gaze full of glass pipes and sell it to a very eager crowd looking to buy Thank you so much for joining us.

3:02:53Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, cottage industry of being able to support yourself on the road and being able to understand how much, you know, investment you have to put into the down months and then you look at when your favorite band goes on tour and you can follow that band around if you can bring enough merchandise out on the road with you. And I knew many people who did this for many years.

3:03:16BubblemanOr just make grilled cheese sandwiches.

3:03:18Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I made grilled, I was going to say, I made grilled cheese sandwiches in the summer of 1983. Follow the Grateful Dead around. But I think that, again, grilled cheese sandwiches can, you know, again, just support other people who are in the lot doing the thing that you're doing, you know. And some people would sell beer. I know other people would sell drugs. But certainly if you're selling glass, I mean, there's nothing illegal about selling glass.

3:03:42Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat you do with the glass pipe is certainly… Oh, it was illegal, absolutely.

3:03:48BubblemanWell, I mean, I'm just saying what you're selling in and of itself. They could take your case and smash all the glass. In fact, I met this dude in 1995 named Zach. Zach was a glassblower. I met him on fish tour and his buddy Huck and him were, he had just lost all his glass. A cop literally took his glass and broke it in front of him and I was standing next to him and I was like, dude, like, that's some bullshit and I was like, you should come back to where we're at.

3:04:19BubblemanWe're doing our thing with this hemp thing. We got glass and we got this. I ended up losing touch with the guy after we lost him in a blizzard. He followed me home from a fish Montana show in 95. I ended up losing track of him. After meeting Marble Slinger on Fish Tour in 98 with Jason Lee picking them up hitchhiking because their car broke down, it turned out that this Zach guy was actually Slinger's roommate in Bellingham, and that's how I really met Marcel and Pedro and D-Rex and all of these guys.

3:04:54BubblemanIt was fucking insane. They used to come up 12 at a time and come hang out and fucking chill in the hot tub and puff bowls and just had a great time meeting these guys in the 90s, going to fish shows.

3:05:05SpeakerYeah, that was awesome.

3:05:07Dr Mark ScialdoneYo, I mean, a lot of people did that, but again, I see people in the chat room talking about it being illegal or not illegal. I'm not saying whether it's legal or not illegal, but when you go to a concert these days and have a so-called Shakedown Street, right, named after the Grateful Dead song, Shakedown Street, you'll see all different kinds of things being peddled there from...

3:05:30Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, dab rigs to glass bowls, glass pipes, t-shirts, rolling papers, you know, everything's being sold. If you want it and you're at a show, you're going to have it for sale on Shakedown Street, including a lot of great glass.

3:05:46BubblemanYep.

3:05:46Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, that's where I first got my snot grass, I think, in 92 at a fish show. Nice. Yes.

3:05:54SpeakerAnd that whole guerrilla marketing thing is invaluable, especially, you know, people from Like my generation of glass blowing are kind of, there isn't so much of that now. Most of the glass sells on like Instagram and Facebook or whatever. So, you know, people more go to the shows now as like a social thing with the weed industry with all the, you know, smoking and actually using the products.

3:06:21SpeakerSo it's pretty awesome to see how it's like transitioning to like a full-blown like cultural celebration and From the like behind closed doors that it used to be.

3:06:33SpeakerBut still having the flavor of the like shakedown street. Like I think that's what's positive about it.

3:06:41BubblemanWell look at the Degenerate Art Show. We were trying to showcase it in such a quality that We definitely weren't puffing huge amounts of bowls upstairs, but remember downstairs? How much hash there was out on plates and different pipes and people were running downstairs. We had like a whole session, which was kind of a funny thing to smoke out your basement, because smoke does, of course, rise.

3:07:08SpeakerYeah, that was a good show. I like that. Absolutely. Oh yeah, so Mark, I have another coin for your collection, actually. It's sitting here. You'll have to often send it to you or something.

3:07:24BubblemanMan, maybe I'll come down to the U.S. here this year.

3:07:27SpeakerOh, that would be so cool. Okay, so this is actually the first coin we made after the alphabet was completed in the glory hole, and it was basically the warm-up for... This guy here, the newest, or the best one so far. But its denomination is 0.0 and infinity, and it says love wins. Love wins. This is the true sacred economy coin because the price of anything is whatever you can give.

3:08:05SpeakerSo it has the infinite and the zero denomination.

3:08:09BubblemanVery cool. Looks like it's a glow-in-the-dark one.

3:08:14SpeakerYeah, all of these ones, these new ones are slime and black. So the slime kind of has that glow-in-the-dark feel to it, but it doesn't actually glow. Second one's UV. There's usually a UV detail in them too, though. So I don't have a UV light candy, but the triangles on this guy have the UV in it.

3:08:41BubblemanNice. Welcome back, ATN. Welcome back, D420K. Thank you.

3:08:48SpeakerBack for a bone rip.

3:08:52SpeakerFinally. Two ATNs. Two ATNs? Yeah, I've got two on my list. I can see him from before and I can see him now. I'm in stereo. 3D glasses, he's in 3D.

3:09:09SpeakerThat was pretty stony. I feel pretty 3D. Oh, man. We were working the other night, and shit got so crazy. We were a little bit, like, short of people, and my friend Maddie White, who's been just the soldier at my side through this whole milling process, like, we really collaborated to make this happen, but I swear to God, he split into three people simultaneously. I was sitting at the bench...

3:09:37SpeakerLooking at him, and he was trying to get me a bit of slime, and then he was also opening the door on the glory hole, and he was cutting the tail off at the furnace for somebody else. And these three places are all like six or seven feet apart from each other. And I was trying to get him to do the job for me. And he literally turned towards me and morphed and he looked like this Ganesh with three sets of arms.

3:10:07SpeakerAnd he was literally doing all three jobs at once. That's the kind of wizard he is. Alright, Marcel, you have to share with the rest of the class what the fuck were you smoking.

3:10:16BubblemanYeah, what were you puffing on?

3:10:21TonyAnd second to that, what was he puffing on?

3:10:24SpeakerWell, you can't be messing with medicine cabinets, so.

3:10:32SpeakerIt was good. It was a fucking amazing night. That day I worked like 24 hours straight. It was on my birthday, right? Yeah, I did that on my birthday. So I woke up in the morning and I finished a bong I'd been procrastinating on and then we started the mill at like 8 o'clock at night and it took almost 12 hours, 10 hours. It was crazy. Definitely slept for a couple days after that.

3:11:01BubblemanYou guys looked jacked. You guys looked all jacked just doing it. You were like, holy fuck, this is a long project.

3:11:09SpeakerOh, dude, that shit was legendary. I mean, there was not, you know, the technicality and the delicacy of what had to happen to have the starship in that. So if you look at this component... There's the starship, which took two weeks to make, just that little part in the middle with the stars around it. And then once that was embedded in the stars, that object was like the size of a coffee can.

3:11:42SpeakerAnd then the lettering that has to go on that was actually quite small. So the lettering is really delicate at that scale. And the center was really big and really thick, so it took really careful heating to get the thing hot enough to pull out without smearing the letters all around. You know, you can see some of that type of stuff in this coin, where the letters are a little twisted and smeared, right?

3:12:12SpeakerJust from the sheer technicality of working with it.

3:12:19BubblemanBoom, Johnny B's back. No, he's not back. I see his chair moving, though. There he is. I always take people out of the broadcast when they just leave an empty chair.

3:12:32SpeakerSo I left my conviction.

3:12:35BubblemanI was paying attention to make sure that when you did come back, I was ready to put you back in the broadcast. You're back in the game, Johnny B. You're back in the game.

3:12:43TonyI noticed that if people leave their chair, we take them out of the game. And two times I've had to go to the bathroom. I ran and almost broke my knee to go to the bathroom and ran back as fast as possible. I was like, oh, shit. I hope you didn't believe me because I saw this all episode. The guy would leave the bathroom and be like, you're done!

3:13:04TonyYou're out of here! And he's like, he's gone. He's gone. And then he has to come back in. It's like broadcast wrestling.

3:13:15BubblemanOh yeah, here's a question for you, Marcel.

3:13:19TonyWhat's that, Tony? He has to go to the bathroom. He had to ask you. He wrote in the chat thing. Bathroom, please. Can I please go to the bathroom?

3:13:29BubblemanYes, you may. Someone asked about Marcel and what he thought about the sleek contrabasso current drama that's going on. For those of you that don't know it, I don't know the whole story. I think that one artist wanted a little bit more of a percentage or something, so the other guy was just like, I'm just going to cut this piece into pieces. Is that kind of correct, or is it a little bit deeper than that?

3:13:53SpeakerI mean, it's always a little deeper than that, I would say. I bet. You know, it's personal. Everyone's got really personal thoughts about how they create their art and what they consider theirs and what they consider the value of theirs and their time. And it's different from everybody. And I personally find the most peace when I don't really try and figure what other people's shit is worth and just accept it for what they say it's worth.

3:14:28SpeakerAs much as possible, you know, and, you know, collabs are difficult. Like, I've been on every side of a collab. I've been, I've clearly done more than the other person. I've clearly done less than the other person. I've done more and been accused of doing less. I've done less and gotten the credit for doing more. You know, and like, All I can say is this shit always works out, you know.

3:14:59SpeakerAnd one thing I've never done is got on the internet and like get crazy with people. Because that's just throwing rocks in glass houses, man. It's just not. Literally.

3:15:10BubblemanIf that's actually cutting glass pipes into pieces with glass saws.

3:15:17SpeakerYeah, I mean it's one of those things, you know, like people make the choices that they make and You know, I think that Eli probably thought that it would make me feel better to, uh, to, like, separate himself from what he considered something that made him uncomfortable. And, you know, I kind of, it just is what it is, you know?

3:15:45BubblemanWell, I appreciate your diplomatic answer. It's very well put, you know? It's a personal thing. These are, like, artistic relationships, each one of these characters. Thank you for watching.

3:16:16BubblemanI guess it's why so much of it is put out on the internet because people are just so willing to hear it and fuel it, whatever side that you're on. There's always people for both sides to fuel it and it's just kind of like they suddenly become like lawyers. It's like, so you just want to fuel this lawsuit so I just keep having to pay you? I like the idea of squashing beef and I think your answer was diplomatic in the sense that there's no need to further the beef by...

3:16:46BubblemanPicking aside as much as just really expressing that things happen, that it's life, and that maybe it's not a bad idea to avoid going on the internet about it.

3:17:00SpeakerMarcel, have you ever destroyed a piece because of collaboration falling apart? No, but I have very seriously considered it.

3:17:12SpeakerI have made that decision not to base purely on economics of my financial situation and my ability to survive versus desire. Thanks for keeping it real.

3:17:24BubblemanI definitely saw Steve. The player smashed a piece once. It wasn't because of any other person. I think it was a personal, internal thing that he had going on with the piece, and we filmed it. It was behind my gallery. And I wish I could remember the reason, but he had a really... Was it when Jason smashed? I remember the Jason one. I remember Jason...

3:17:48SpeakerThe Slinger did that too?

3:17:50BubblemanYeah, Jason did it first about a year or two prior, and Slinger... I don't know if it was an inspiration or if he just came to... I mean, he'd only really been the person that could express exactly why he did it. I won't even guess why, but it just goes to show you that... Because it feels awesome.

3:18:08SpeakerI can tell you why you smash a piece you're pissed off at, because it feels great.

3:18:14BubblemanYeah, he definitely was like... It was a cathartic experience for him, I felt, just by witnessing it. It wasn't like he was afterwards like all... Pissed off and aggressive, but yeah, it is what it is, you know?

3:18:27SpeakerWell, I got cheated because I've broken every single glass pipe I've ever had sooner or later, and it never felt good a single time. No shit, but you still got your Dizzle. Absolutely. I still got maybe a dozen glass ones, but I haven't broke yet.

3:18:46BubblemanBut you puff out of your Swiss perk, just saying. Yes, I do. Excellent. That's what I like to hear. Shout out to Nate Dizzle. Dizzle. Yeah, yeah.

3:18:55SpeakerI've always kept my pipes. This is an old one I had. It even has, so if you look through the downstem, it has the initials on it. What are the initials? JD. JD, huh? Yeah, this has a turtle in it. It also has a dragonfly. Oh, another turtle. And a little, another butterfly over here, a nice work end, and... Yeah, I've been very fortunate when I worked at Galaxy Gallery, I kept a few choice pieces that I found.

3:19:29SpeakerBut I don't recall the artist's name, but we carried some nice pieces back to one of these.

3:19:34BubblemanWell, there's sure no denying the importance of the glass pipe maker in our community, for me at least, for the last 25 years. Being involved in this plant and coming into, you know, hashes and concentrates and meeting all these different glassblowers when I did in the 90s, the mid to late 90s, it definitely shaped who I am and how I enjoy cannabis and, yeah, I appreciate it.

3:20:00BubblemanI'm happy to have you come in any time, Marcel, and talk about your projects and share your information with us. It's a nice change. It's a different conversation, but I still feel that it's very, very, very much connected to the cannabis energy that we love to share and talk about here on Hash Church.

3:20:24SpeakerI'm a little embarrassed because it's not so clean.

3:20:28BubblemanSwiss perk. Yeah, check this out. I have a good picture of Nate. The same year that he gave you that, he wanted to give both you and Rob a Swiss perk, and he gave Rob one at the cup, and I actually took this picture because look at how fucking stoked these two are in this picture. No, Rob likes it. Fuck, of course he does. I just thought the expression on their face was so great.

3:20:57BubblemanJust happiness right there. Cannabis cup several years ago.

3:21:04SpeakerHeck yeah.

3:21:07BubblemanHeck yeah. Well, we've been going on. Geez, we're like, what are we at, three and a half hours of hash church in it? I'm sure we could rock another half hour of conversation and of goodness.

3:21:19SpeakerWhat should we discuss? Cannabis?

3:21:23BubblemanI like that idea, Todd. Okay, so.

3:21:27SpeakerI've heard great things about it. I have all these. Hey, hey, you know what? And silver coins. I'm sorry. This one is scratch and sniff. It smells like cannabis. Come on. No, I swear to God. It's gold plated.

3:21:43Todd MccormickAnd it's scratch and sniff.

3:21:46SpeakerOh, speaking of sniff, Todd and I went to the Oakland Altered State exhibit at the Oakland Museum, which actually had four growing plants. And it had a history of California and medical marijuana and representations of different hash that we carry in the store and different topicals, etc. What varieties were the plants? Well, the main thing was there was three, oh, it was called the white. But they had an interesting sniff area where they had the buds contained in a clear plastic container and you went over to it and you lifted it up and it had holes in it and you could It drew the scent up so you could actually smell the different herbs that were there.

3:22:29SpeakerWhat herbs were there, Todd?

3:22:30Todd MccormickIt was really cool. I think Granddaddy Purple. I'd have to check my photos. But it was a good, it was really a sparse exhibit, but it's really nice to see it heading in that direction. I mean, to have living plants in a public museum on display, I mean, I find this funny because America celebrates itself as this free country, and it's such an illusion because, you know, literally putting, literally putting flowers in a museum is like revolutionary.

3:23:02Todd MccormickSo how is that, like, if that's a measure of our freedom, how free are we not? Dare I bring it up. Yes, you dare. Yes, you dare. But it was so great to see Oakland Museum doing it. I was a little disheartened to see that they did not have a good, you know, I come from seeing Ben's museums and I have a renewed sense of respect for his collection and for the timeline of education that he gives you when you walk through the displays in Amsterdam or Barcelona.

3:23:33Todd MccormickEven though cannabis played such a significant role in the development of California with, you know, ropes and covered wagons coming west and then the gold miners and original Levi's jeans being canvas and all these things where hemp was such a huge part of building the state up, they gloss over the history completely and it's completely lost on the curators, it seems. So I was a little disheartened.

3:23:57Todd MccormickI didn't see one mention to Jack Harris' book, The Emperor Wears New Clothes, which I thought was also a little ridiculous considering how big of a contribution it was to our whole movement. And other things I think they overlooked too, but I hope that other museums look at this and do a better job in the near future.

3:24:20SpeakerYeah, it was definitely sparse in comparison. It has none of the history that... Ben's Museums in Amsterdam or Barcelona carry in any way, shape, or form, but it did have a nice representation of the activism that's taken place here in California. The neat thing is they had a display as if you're in a doctor's office, and it had sliding drawers, and above it, it had a list of the symptom, of a physical symptom, and then you slide open the door, and it had pros and cons of With actual studies listed on it of positive or negative effects regarding that symptom, which is pretty neat.

3:25:03SpeakerSo medically speaking, it had a nice representation, but cultural wise, it was lacking greatly.

3:25:10Todd MccormickIt was looking great. But I support everybody. I would encourage everybody in the Bay Area or within California's Bay Area to go down and check it out. It runs through September and this is, it's a strong step towards mainstream consciousness of cannabis and museums really starting to look at this in a, not just a progressive way, but a little bit of social responsibility and talking about the true history and not just glossing over the bumps of it that they feel like highlighting.

3:25:39Todd MccormickThis is a strong part of humanity's evolution, especially in this country where when Columbus found this country, so to speak, which we all know is BS. They didn't find cannabis growing, so they actually had to start farming European varieties of cannabis because they needed things like rope and canvas for their covered wagons and sails for their ships and clothing. I mean, they had no cotton until 1790, so for a long time hemp was hugely important in the evolution of America.

3:26:11Todd MccormickAll of that seems lost in today's museums.

3:26:14BubblemanYou'd think it would be the ultimate revelation too where if, and I'm not saying that they didn't smoke before or they did smoke after, but if they did not figure out the smoking aspect until way later, all these people that appreciated the use of the cannabis plant and using it for all of these things, to finally find out in the end, oh yeah, you can also smoke it and it feels great, you'd just be like, this plant is just too much.

3:26:39BubblemanThis is just, are you kidding me?

3:26:41SpeakerWell, the main thing is that it was interactive and As you know, when you go to museums, everybody's just walking around very silently, whereas in each area of this department, people were having open discussions. People were engaging other museum people regarding their discussions, questions, or poking fun at it, etc. It was interesting how interactive it was, but also how people were interacting. They were from all ages, and they were mostly older people that I saw there for the most part, right, Todd?

3:27:15BubblemanMuted.

3:27:17Todd MccormickYou're muted, Todd. Yes, it was typical of the Bay Area, a real cross-section of humanity checking out cannabis. But that's been my experience watching people walk in and out of your club for years. I mean, you can't typecast the type of person that's going in there and buying cannabis. It is literally everybody.

3:27:39SpeakerWas there an age limit to get into it?

3:27:43Todd MccormickYeah, no one over 30, so I had to sneak in.

3:27:49SpeakerSam, they had an area where they would actually had, it was a science area where it was completely sealed off and you had the gloves, you could put your hands in the gloves and actually touch pots, stems, and leaves, and seeds and stuff. So, yeah, it was completely interactive for all ages.

3:28:11Todd MccormickI was impressed with the actual cannabis on display. They had the cool little box that was acrylic and you could see the bud in it and it had holes drilled and you could flip the top and you could stick your nose down and smell it and it wasn't the most aromatic cannabis but it was nice that they were trying.

3:28:31SpeakerAnd a lot of people were smelling it because they don't know what it smells like so they were intrigued.

3:28:36Wood ThrushIt's good to have a good flipper.

3:28:42Todd MccormickI thought it was cool. I really thought that the center of the display being four cannabis plants was really bold. I was waiting for the DEA to swoop in any time and arrest those flowers for living.

3:28:58BubblemanWhat are you saying, Tony?

3:29:01SpeakerTony, have you been to it yet? Have I what? Have you been to the museum yet and checked it out? I've been to... The only museums I've been to is almost at... Because your stuff is in the museum, so you might as well go see your stuff in the museum. What'd you say? Your Prana product is in one of the displays in the museum. Really?

3:29:28BubblemanYeah, the one they're talking about in San Francisco?

3:29:32Todd MccormickNo, it's in Oakland.

3:29:32BubblemanOh, Oakland.

3:29:34Todd MccormickYeah, Oakland Museum, yep. You should go down there, man. It's only whatever.

3:29:37SpeakerAnd they had a munchie machine, an actual vending machine for munchies in the middle of the room to buy M&Ms or Funyuns and stuff. But yeah, they had your stuff, they had Fresh Off the Bud, they had some Harborside representation and some other products that were on display, which is, you know, looks like an ounce of different types of cannabis as well. But yeah, you've got to go check it out, man.

3:30:01SpeakerYou're, you know, that's part of history.

3:30:03TonyOkay, which product was in there, though?

3:30:07SpeakerIt just was a Prana product. It was on the left-hand side, I don't recall. There's a whole bunch of products going across, so we'll see what we can see.

3:30:17BubblemanI have to see which... Tony says, I'm in a museum? Cool.

3:30:23TonyI didn't know I was in a museum.

3:30:27BubblemanOh, Dablicious is in the museum, too.

3:30:31TonyThat's pretty cool, though.

3:30:36SpeakerYeah, it just gives... It's a representation so that the current people can see what is available and what patients are currently getting, so... It gives them an insight to see that, you know, as I heard people discussing, they were saying how professional it looked. And, you know, people were talking about how it's actually labeled as opposed to like a regular product. And that was really surprising to them because, again, most people expect it to be the, you know, backdoor, oh, we're all gathering in a basement somewhere and just distributing, you know, whatever we got in our backpacks.

3:31:11SpeakerIt was nice to see it dispelled. Very cool.

3:31:15BubblemanWow. Are you allowed to take pictures at that museum?

3:31:18SpeakerOh yeah. Just no flash usually. You know, it's like any other museum.

3:31:22Todd MccormickI posted some on my Instagram. I'll post some more after, now that we've talked about it. It's sparse. I'll post some of the quotes on the walls. They should have contacted Ben or the museums in Amsterdam. They would have loaned them So much stuff, if they had just asked or reached out, and I'm really surprised they didn't consider, and there's so few museums like it in the world, really.

3:31:48Todd MccormickI mean, what other museums other than Ben's are there in the world on that level?

3:31:55SpeakerNone. None. Historically, he has it hands down, and he's been, you know, like others, quietly showing how it needs to be done, so I think Oakland was just kind of trying to try to show, because it has a A great history in Oakland. We rebuilt Oakland off of medical cannabis completely. So to see that it's represented in the local museum, as we stated, and there's four growing plants, even budding plants there growing in pots, you know, is something I never thought we would ever see, honestly.

3:32:29SpeakerOh, shit. I'm going in. What you smoking there, sir?

3:32:38BubblemanI just dropped a little chunk of this rosin into these turps here, and I'm just going to stir it around for a little bit here and see if I can't... Oh, somebody's saying Vienna Museum has live plants.

3:32:54SpeakerI remember seeing that article. Oh, yeah.

3:32:57BubblemanYeah, that's right. They have really beautiful looking live plants.

3:33:00SpeakerAnd it's an amazing setup, too. I mean, it's beautiful. I mean, the Oakland one's nice, but the Vienna one is epic. Yeah. What they do in Vienna is they constantly rotate the flowering plants so they're in prime flowering condition constantly. That's brilliant.

3:33:21SpeakerThey must be doing that in Oakland as well because the pots are removable, but I noticed the lights that they were under were not sustainable, especially for the flowering cycles they're in. Yes, they were.

3:33:31Todd MccormickThey were T5s. They'll do fine. Yeah.

3:33:39Todd MccormickYou'd be amazed what you could do under a T5, to be honest with you.

3:33:42SpeakerTrue story.

3:33:43Todd MccormickYeah, no, the buds won't be that dense, but they'll work fine.

3:33:48SpeakerYeah, in Vienna, what they were doing is they were flowering them for like five or six weeks or whatever, and then they put in another one that had already flowered for a couple weeks for another five weeks, and then they did it again and again and again.

3:34:03Todd MccormickPrecisely what I think they're doing here because the plants were in various stages. One was in a more of a like a fourth week, fifth week stage. Another one was in like a second week stage of flowering. So I think they were trying to give representations of a cycle as well as… Yeah, I think that's great. Very simple. It was a big glass box with T5s on top so you couldn't access the plants with four big, you know, basically recirculating hydroponic systems that were hidden from view.

3:34:32BubblemanLooked like the old Grotron or whatever that thing was called.

3:34:35Todd MccormickYeah, Phototron on roids. But you know what, this would work. You know what, this would actually fit a cannabis plant, turns out. Yeah.

3:34:48SpeakerYep, the Phototron's manufacturer was Jeffrey Julian DeMarco.

3:34:56Todd MccormickYeah, Rob and I had the great pleasure of going to a party in LA by some investors who took that over and they had never grown or seen a cannabis plant growing. It was overtly obvious. And when Rob and I were talking to them, they were like, what do you think of it? And Rob was like, and he was like, well, and I was like, and then I was like, you do realize that most cannabis plants by like third or fourth week are bigger than your unit, right?

3:35:22Todd MccormickThey were like, really? Yeah.

3:35:27SpeakerRealiztically... Me and Rob met Jeffrey Julian DeMarco here in Amsterdam several years before what you're talking about, and he promised to send us a couple to test, but he never did.

3:35:44Todd MccormickPromiser. That's great. I wouldn't send them to you. Hey, so we were talking about some of the studies and I sent a message to Rick Doblin who started the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies and Rick said he can join us next week for an hour or so on Half Church. Yeah, for those that don't know, maps.org has been amazing. It's phenomenal in pushing the research for PTSD with ecstasy, but also with medical cannabis.

3:36:13Todd MccormickThey did some of the first vaporization smoking studies, and Rick Doblin has been like a hero.

3:36:19SpeakerDoesn't Rick own the patent for ecstasy?

3:36:23Todd MccormickRick is one of the sharpest guys I've ever met. I wouldn't doubt at this point he's acquired it. I don't know. People can listen to him. He did a really long version podcast with Joe Rogan on one of Joe Rogan's last podcasts. If you just go tune in to Joe Rogan's stuff, you can see Rick Doblin sit down with Joe and do a really deep conversation about psychedelics, psychedelic therapy, medical cannabis.

3:36:51Todd MccormickAnd the research they've been doing. It'll be great. Having Rick on will be great.

3:36:56BubblemanAwesome.

3:37:00SpeakerWe look forward to that conversation. Focus on cannabis. Well, he's working with Dr. Sue Sisley and them on the studies, so he's going to be talking specifically.

3:37:11Todd MccormickHe can talk about the problems he's had trying to access the cannabis from Mississippi and how he tried to set up protocol in Massachusetts and he had everything set up to be able to grow it there and they cut them off there. Rick has really been on the front line of the struggle of truly independent research It's amazing. I mean, it's hard for me to encapsulate in a sound bite what Rick's been doing for his career for the last 30 years.

3:37:38Todd MccormickBut since I've known Rick, I met Rick in 94. The work he's been doing has been quintessential to our development on the medical levels on so many levels with cannabis in the last 20 years especially. So even though that MAPS focuses on MDMA, really I would say almost 60% if not 40% of their efforts go toward cannabis.

3:38:08SpeakerHow many years have they been trying to do cannabis?

3:38:13Todd MccormickHow many years has Rick, Rick has been working, you know, since MAPS, since 94, I know that Rick has been working towards, you know, vaporization, improving the effectivity and the safety of cannabis. And a lot of what we were talking about, how it's easy to get funding to do negative studies for cannabis. Rick, try to come at that from the other perspective and try to get positive studies for cannabis.

3:38:40SpeakerYeah, the first event I did was back in 93, which was the 50th anniversary of LSD, was With maps.

3:38:47Todd MccormickWow. Can I read you guys what he just sent me? So he could talk about this. He said, thanks for the information. By the way, the State Department has confirmed in writing that the DEA interpretation of the single convention is wrong and the U.S. could license cracker, I guess, industries to grow marijuana for research without violating international treaty obligations.

3:39:11SpeakerOf course that's true.

3:39:16Todd MccormickSo Rick will come on and talk about that next week. That's great.

3:39:19SpeakerIt's absolutely permitted to do medical research of any kind with cannabis under UN Single Drug Convention. Absolutely.

3:39:31BubblemanWow. That was an absolute spacey fucking delicious rip. I'm loving the conversation. I'm looking forward to next week to have Rick on here. We might also have a special patient story guest come on, and so hopefully that'll work out. But I'm not 100% sure that it will, so I'm not mentioning any names for now. But yeah, I think I'm going to wrap it up here, guys, unless you have anything else key that you want to say today.

3:39:59BubblemanWe've done a good solid three hours and 40 minutes of Hash Church. I thank you all, as always, Todd and Mark and Tony and John. Etienne and Sam, and our special guest, Marcel. Thanks for coming in. Thanks, Woodthrow, who was here earlier. And D420K, finish it off with a bong rip, as he would say. And, yeah, we'll definitely see you guys next week. I started it off with Richie.

3:40:29BubblemanI'm going to finish it off with Richie. See you guys later.

3:40:33SpeakerBong rip. Bong rip.

3:40:40SpeakerOh, that's my favorite. That's a great job. That's a great job.

3:41:10SpeakerIt's a time of new time, it's a time of new time. Rest from the extractor, 100% pure, 100% pure. I don't smoke this up, I don't smoke this up. I don't smoke this up. I don't smoke this up. I don't smoke this up. I don't smoke this up.