Jamaica's Cannabis Future and Global Legalization Struggles

0:01BubblemanHey, everybody. Welcome, welcome. Episode 75 of Hash Church. This is the Bubble Man, and I am here in Kingston, Jamaica, up in the Cherry Gardens, just sort of overlooking downtown, and it is Hash Church 75. So let's go onto YouTube and turn that down and get over to the Facebook and send that out and go over to the email and push send on that. And I think that's about it.

0:28BubblemanWe've got our guys invited in. And I just want to welcome all of you for showing up so wonderfully early today on the West Coast. And for you East Coasters, well, it's high noon. And you know what we do at high noon? Well, at least here in Jamaica, we hit the chalice. So welcome, Etienne. How are you, my friend?

0:48EtienneGood, my friend. And how are you? Good morning.

0:51BubblemanDoing very well. Doing very well. Nice to see you back home, safe and sound.

0:56EtienneGood to be back safe and sound. Been enjoying your pictures throughout the week of the different plots and craziness that you're going through there. How are things there?

1:05BubblemanOh man, it's wonderful of course. You know, every trip that we make is a move forward. Jamaica's constantly moving forward. Of course it takes time. There's politicians and policies and they just had a big election where it was all sorts of insanity. I think the JLP won the initial election. The PNP was upset. And then the JLP got recounted and now it looks like the PNP won.

1:28BubblemanSo I have a hard time keeping up with politics myself. So I will simply welcome Mr. Mark Scaldone, Mr. John Burfellow, and of course the junk man into the room and the 444 people that are here with us after two minutes of being online. Welcome, Todd.

1:48BubblemanHope everyone's doing good. I'm going to start the day off with a little bit of the Bubble Man brand. Orange Creamsicle Full Melt.

1:57MrOh, good stuff. That sounds amazing. Good morning, and it looks like you're having a great time in Jamaica.

2:05BubblemanWell, you know, it is work. It's fun. It's great. We're trying to get it done, but at the same time, there's not much relaxing going on, as you know, John.

2:17MrI know. You're driving around like crazy, like your head cut off, but you land, and we win our right to continue to grow. Dude.

2:24BubblemanI know, I got the email, I got the message from Allison and it was, you must be so happy right now as I got off the plane. All I saw was, you must be so happy right now and I thought, we won. So yeah, I was pretty happy. Blow smoke signals to the Vatican for our good friend Mr. Robert Connell Clark. He may be here today, he may not, but either way, we're certainly going to be blowing smoke signals on his behalf.

2:51EtienneSo what are you, what flavors are you smoking and what flavor are you smoking, John?

2:58MrIn celebration of yesterday, I took the three strains, three lights, I dry sifted this beautiful dry sift, cleaned it all up. So it's the Hoss, that's something that me and Mark decided to call what it was because it was OG Kush Cross with a skunk haze. We don't know, but whatever.

3:17BubblemanOG skunk. Haze OG skunk. It's actually the hogs, but we couldn't do hogs. It's the hoss.

3:25MrSo it melts like water. It's a beautiful, I had to bring it in this morning.

3:32BubblemanAh, yes. Ah, yes, yes, yes. All right. Are we going good here? Just let me check. Okay, just making sure. Are you getting into Washington? I don't know. Is everything working okay is what I want to know in the chat room. Is everything working okay?

3:47EtienneYes, everything seems to be working fine. I'm moderating. Everything's rolling through.

3:51BubblemanAwesome. Well, I am here by the pool. I want it to be up there, but the internet is really crappy up on that deck, and it just kept petering out on me. So literally here at 11... 57, like three minutes before I usually push the button, I ran downstairs with my computer and grabbed my pipe and the D-nail and all this glass hanging out. I got the melts here.

4:18BubblemanI got the West Coast concentrates. I got the Bubble Man brand. I got Blue River terpenes.

4:28BubblemanIt's a good, good, good day in Jamaica. Any day you can wake up with the lemon kush and the Jack Frost. It is going to be a day that you are certainly not going to have any regrets. It feels like it might be raining here a little bit, so we might have to run away again at one point in time and change my location. We'll suss it out.

4:49MrYou're getting rain? Really? Was it 33 degrees out right now?

4:54BubblemanOh, it's at least 33 degrees out right now. It's a nice warm one for sure.

4:59MrIf you move too far, you'll lose internet.

5:02BubblemanI'm good because I'm right by the pool house. So the pool house is right here, and there's a router in this little building.

5:09EtienneAnd so I think it should be okay.

5:16BubblemanSo I'm hoping on getting a couple of my reggae artist friends down here today. I've invited Prophecy, and I've invited Loyal Flames, and I invited Jacques Cure, and I think Richie Spice. They're all pretty busy. We'll see what happens. If one or two of them make it, that'd be cool to just get a little guitar song going on, a little reggae for the hash churchers. But in the meantime, there's plenty to talk about in the world of cannabis.

5:47BubblemanIt seems like it's nonstop in the media, seeing all sorts of different things.

5:51SpeakerCan you guys actually just talk about a little bit what this ruling means in Canada? You know, for those of us that are American, it seems quite foreign that you'll have rights So can you talk to me a little bit about, you know, Arjun, what this is going to mean to Canada, this new ruling?

6:05MrOkay, so what the ruling means, what has happened is we filed an injunction against Health Canada back in 2012 that stopped them from taking away the MMAR rights to the patients that were licensed to continue to be able to keep growing their own medicine. So that injunction was put in on March 31st of 2013. Anybody who was licensed from them from September onward, it was held in an injunction and was protected under that right to continue to keep growing their medicine.

6:38MrAnybody else who didn't follow certain guidelines lost their right. So a lot of people were unable to need their medicines and we were only allowed to carry 150 grams. So we went to court because they were trying to take away our right completely. They were told to destroy all of our medicine with cat litter by March 31st and we had to start buying from licensed producers. So for the last three and a half years, we've been fighting for the right under our charter right, Charter 7, to be able to, you know, freedom of speech and liberty and what we choose to do with our own body.

7:09MrWe went to court and we fought on behalf of all patients in Canada that the MMPR, the licensed medical marijuana producers, were not able to give us exactly proper access. It wasn't proper, you know, it was over a dollar a gram. It was going to be radiated. They tried saying that we were mold starters, that we were causing fires. Everything was thrown out of court. The reading is 84 pages and the judge was quite hard on a couple, like the fire chief and how they're saying we were mold starters.

7:43MrThey said it was all hypothesis, stuff that they just came up with and stuff. So it's a really hard ruling for the federal government to even Like appeal, so what has happened is Judge Palin has now given the federal government six months to put in legislation to allow patients to continue to grow their own medicine. And in six months we'll find out what the legislation is.

8:06SpeakerYou know, thank you for that explanation, John. I really, I was a little confused by what the ruling really meant for people, and that's really great.

8:12MrHow it is is someone like myself is still protected under the injunction, but as it states on paper, we talked to lawyers about this, they didn't want to say it, but it says ill patients in Canada have been granted access to their medicine. So any patient in Canada right now, it goes against a doctor's note to say that they're using cannabis for their medicine can really truly just start setting up and putting up a small group, start growing their own medicine, because for the next six months...

8:39BubblemanAnd then in the meantime, Bill Blair says he's going to continue arresting people as per usual for cannabis crimes. The gentleman who's been put in charge of our bringing forward the federal program here in Canada, he's like the top sort of cop guy that was well known for the G20 Summit in Toronto and the mass amounts of arrests that he allowed to have happen. Not probably the best guy to hire to run the legalization campaign, but it is what it is.

9:12BubblemanHopefully people like Jody will continue to show the hypocrisy of those people. I think Jody made a really good point in regards to, oh, it's still illegal, but you have to obey the law. It's like, oh, is that what you would tell Rosa Parks? Just go back to the back of the bus and shut up. It's like, no, we're not going to shut up, and we're not going to go back to the back of the bus.

9:34BubblemanHopefully we'll just continue pushing this forward until the likes of... Of the Bill Blairs are unrecognizable.

9:40SpeakerWell, you know, the truth is this is an ongoing evolution of our rights. You know, this is not something that, it's not like winning a lottery ticket. We're not going to wake up one day and suddenly everyone's going to have the rationale that, oops, we were wrong about marijuana, cannabis, hemp, and we've been treating all of its users like witches and we should stop burning them in the middle of the town.

10:00SpeakerI mean, we're not going to wake up without epiphany. This is going to be a long struggle towards, you know, dare I say, normalization of our behavior. And, you know, this struggle's real, probably for the rest of my life.

10:12MrTodd, we've won right now. We've won our right, but we're just into another battle again. We've still got to continue fighting for clubs that have access, for patients that have access properly, not through big monopoly licenses.

10:24SpeakerIt's an interesting side story. A friend of mine was an activist, and she was a sex worker activist, and she brought up to me that back in like 79 or something, Australia had legalized prostitution, and the police and the old guard Basically still harassed all the girls, still harassed all their clients, wouldn't really accept that the law had changed. And the reason she was teaching me this is because we were still struggling with implementation of 215 in California after we legalized it because the old guard, the police, the prohibitionists, they really didn't want to see the law enacted.

10:58SpeakerSo even here we are two decades later. Still trying to enact a law that, you know, 20 years ago passed with a majority vote. So, in my opinion, this is not a short process of change that we're on our path of. This is a long, longer path. But it's being affected quickly now because of things like movies, things like Hash Church, mainly things like the information... Thank you so much for joining us.

11:51EtienneAnd then with also, I think, Mexico pushing. I think once we see a change at the UN level, then I think we can start to fight for some sort of normalcy in each of our prospective countries. But until that UN drug treaty from 61 is overturned and thrown off the books, we're still kind of fist-fucked gently with a chainsaw. So people can't ever forget that we are still fighting every single day.

12:16EtienneAnd you may look at this panel as a whole bunch of successful people. And that that we are. We can't carry this change alone. We need everybody here to continue to be involved, get active, talk to legislators, call your UN representative. All these type of things, they're happening right now. So stay active, stay involved. So very proud of what's happening in Canada. We also saw here in the United States, and I think the clock put past legalization through its legislature.

12:44EtienneSo we're seeing things happening throughout the United States. And of course, that has its ripple effect. But I really feel with Canada's change and if Mexico legalizes it and we being surrounded by it and with having the entire West Coast being literally legalized here in the coming years, there's an inevitable amount of change that has taken place, but it can still all be taken back and changed people.

13:09EtienneWe still need you out there pushing this momentum. It takes the Johns, the Marcuses, and people like me fighting with my own federal government, suing the government just for the right to exist as a dispensary. Yeah. It's a long-term struggle, and I agree with Todd. It's going to be happening until I'm dead, and I'm going to carry this torch as long as I can until some of you guys and gals who are watching right now want to carry that torch after our passings to keep us moving forward for that normalization.

13:37SpeakerYou're right, Ed Chen. Absolutely right, because just think if a Republican asshole was elected President of America, what he could do to the cannabis industry if he was motivated. Well, not to sound weird, though, you know, Sam, the industry really perked up under George Bush because he was busy invading other people. I mean, ironically, under Democratic regime, we have more oppression domestically. I was prosecuted under our brilliant Clinton, you know, I mean, so I actually think that Republicans actually ignore what's going on here in America and go attack innocents everywhere else.

14:14SpeakerSo we're going to vote for Bush, or we're going to vote for Trump, yeah?

14:17BubblemanYeah. Here comes Mark Scaldone.

14:22SpeakerCome on, go Trump, right? Dude, after watching the Republican debate, I'm his biggest fan. I think he's imploding the Republican Party and turning them out for the people they really are, which are a bunch of hypocrites. I love it. I love what he's doing to them. I hope they all blow up on themselves. It's easy to manipulate Trump. You just have to threaten to make gambling illegal.

14:46SpeakerHe'll say, oh, my casinos, and he'll legalize all drugs.

14:51BubblemanJust for his casinos.

14:55SpeakerCan you tell us some stuff about Jamaica, Mark? Can you show us some Jamaican ganja? Can you tell us how much Jamaican ganja is? Can you tell us about Jamaica, seeing you there?

15:05BubblemanWell, I mean, Jamaica is in a unique position right now. There's all sorts of companies that are applying for licensing and permits right now and how they're doing that is they're trying to get ready. I read a lot of this in the Gleamer that companies are applying by basically acquiring property, getting the safety protocols in place so that it's secure, fencing and all that sort of thing.

15:29BubblemanAnd then they've got to set up their processing lab and be able to show that they're able to process resin into a raw product or a final product. And I guess this is sort of the system I believe that we're going to be having to go through here in the next month with our own company to find out, to basically get this license happening. There's a lot of interest from all over the world.

15:53BubblemanObviously, Josh Stanley is here doing his CBD thing. There's a company named Timeless. There's our company, Cannabinoid Research and Development. You have Henry Lowe from the university who studied cannabis maybe 30 plus years ago and actually created the eye drops. I believe it was him that created the glaucoma eye drops. He definitely was involved in some form or another of an actual cannabis industry. Thank you so much for joining us.

16:41BubblemanThere's a lot of excitement in the grower world. All sorts of different parishes have produced sort of, I guess you would call them like growers associations. The Westmoreland Growers Association and the Spanish Town and all these different areas. I think that they got told, but I'm not 100% that they were told create associations. It's going to make it better and bigger. So imagine they're building this policy from the ground up right now and watching and looking at the rest of the world.

17:08BubblemanAnd they have an advantage because they're able to look at what's going on in the U.S. They're able to see a federal program in a first world like Canada. They're able to see Uruguay. You know, the reciprocity between Holland, Germany, and Canada through Bedrocan. So they have a wide swath to be able to look at. If you think of 5 or 10 or 15 years ago, the swath was much smaller to get this information from.

17:35BubblemanSo I think their position is advantageous. Jamaica obviously can grow incredible quantities of cannabis. The main thing working against them If you can imagine was all of us bringing our seeds here for so many decades that we really fucked up the gene pool here. And we really do require, I always go back to my Tony quote, which is breeding the lion back into the jungle. We have a lot of kittens in the jungle now.

18:02BubblemanYou don't see many 12 and 15 foot tall plants like you did in the 80s, 70s for certain, and a little bit of the 90s. You see short little bushy plants, not even like one stick, Indica's. They plant them in marshes and low areas. It's prohibition based because you can't see them. They're harder to find. You can find these marshes deep in the mountain ranges. And so I can't see it staying that way once we don't have to hide where we're growing in Jamaica.

18:29BubblemanImagine this whole island is about to change. They had to hide. Where they were growing herb and now they're going to be able to grow herb basically on the side of the road like they do with sugar cane.

18:38SpeakerWell can I throw this out though, you know the truth is it's a very wet climate and a lot of the, you know, so what you're going to have to see is dehumidified greenhouses coming in if you want to grow anything that's not entirely mold resistant. A lot of the varieties that we talk about being gone are the longer flowering varieties that have loose spindly buds that can dissipate the moisture easily and not clump up and get a big beautiful bud with a little center of mold inside.

19:07SpeakerThis is probably for sure. What's that? What kind of extractions are they doing down there?

19:14BubblemanI've seen CO2 and I've seen closed loop and I've seen water extraction. I, of course, am going to be also hoping to offer mechanical separation through sifting as well as rosin. And then, of course, there's plant fat extracts using different oils and coconut, etc., So there's a lot of different things that you can do. All of it's happening right now for sure.

19:35SpeakerAnd what level of standardized testing is in place to test for like residual solvent and microbial contamination?

19:44BubblemanWell, that will be in the policy when they release it. They'll be releasing this policy that they created a group here in Jamaica. I believe it was made up of 16 different people from different ministerial offices. They created the policy. It hasn't been made public as of yet, but it's supposed to be many pages long and explain exactly what the Jamaican government wants to implement with this particular situation, covering all licensing and everything.

20:12BubblemanHopefully it's an amazing document. We'll see when it comes out.

20:17SpeakerIs the legislation specific around extracts? Does it call it a different category?

20:22BubblemanI don't know because I haven't seen any of the legislation yet. It's all happening as we speak sort of thing. It's always rumors and everyone thinks that they know, but in reality I can be honest. I really don't know, so I'm being honest. We'll see it in the next maybe month or two. I think in the next two months maximum we'll see licenses released. Issued here in Jamaica and if that's the case, our company is in full speed ahead mode.

20:49BubblemanWe feel behind already because of course the way things worked out, the way you need to wait for a license, of course a license is generally the mechanism that releases funding in projects like this that are going to be very expensive to fund. But in regards to standards, Mark, I would suspect that the University of West Indies, UTEC, and the Scientific Review Council, SRC, We'll be in charge of all forms of testing from GLC to HPLC to your specialty, the VR.

21:21EtienneHey, do you think with this recent opening up of, you know, Jamaica, etc., do you think any of those older phenotypes may actually creep out and creep up, or do you think they're pretty much long gone by this time?

21:35BubblemanI believe that they'll creep up. It's hard to get rid of things like that when you have really, really unique elders living in the, like living almost detached from the rest of the world in the hills, living in different Bobo camps and Nyabingi camps, and I guarantee there's more than one that has that strain that they've had for a while. And then I also think that bringing narrow leaf drug cultivars to Jamaica from other countries that are close Thank you.

22:17BubblemanFor the Caribbean.

22:18SpeakerBut, you know, the truth is that when we get past our prohibition mentality and we start breeding towards what is really going to grow best in that climate rather than what's the quickest and heaviest yielding, which is really where prohibition has pushed gardeners to go, the whole concept is going to change and we're going to start seeing people bringing in seeds that are from Thailand, from other tropical areas.

22:40SpeakerI mean, most of the cannabis we smoked pre-1970s was tropical, Thai, Maui, Waui, Acapulco Gold, Michoacan, Jamaican. All of this stuff was from around the equatorial belt. Sam, when did the vibe of cannabis change? Was it when the hippies found fat, broad leaf? Broad leaf was first imported maybe a little bit as early as 69.

23:10SpeakerBut by the mid-70s, several groups had imported large amounts of wide-leaf drug varieties, and they were being circulated all over the West Coast and even the East Coast. And once it got in, it pretty much changed everything. Not only in Mexico, in Jamaica, and in Morocco, all these wide-leaf drug hybrids are being Have contaminated the land races and it's all but impossible to find a pure land race in any of those countries anymore.

23:43SpeakerMaybe it can be done or maybe seeds that were taken out of the country 20 years ago and grown someplace else for a little while can be important. But whatever it is, is what it is. If everything in Jamaica has white leaf drug lines in it, you may be able to get out the narrow leaf, but I doubt you can get it out Thank you for joining us.

24:22SpeakerAnd that's where really, really a lot of great terpenes come from. Well, can I, you know, I've said before when I did speaking that I feel like the vibe of cannabis changed when we started smoking predominantly Afghan because, you know, the vibe in the 60s that my mom described in the early 70s was always high energy, you know, laugh, you get the giggles, you clean your house, you do your dishes, you get baked and you'd be inspired.

24:47SpeakerAnd then When the Afghans started getting bread in, it was more really like a one-hit wonder, sit on your couch, look for the remote, and be a little lazy. It was more of a somewhat narcotic or heavy high. Right. I don't think the major reason was that... Thank you for watching.

25:25SpeakerIt blew me away that I could smoke this stuff and not want to take a nap or whatever, and that's when I really realized that, wow, what was all the cannabis like in the 60s when we were importing it? That's true, Todd, but you've got to remember, some people really don't like narrow-leaf drug varieties. It gets them all white and pasty and electric. Too wiry. They like to be stoned on the wide-leaf drug varieties.

25:49SpeakerI say different smokes for different folks. It's not for me to judge. It's to try to find what they want. No, different smokes for different folks is a great way to put it. I like that a lot. You know, but for some of us, I think we look for that shot of coffee. We want our morning coffee and not our morning sedative. If I was looking for NyQuil, I get it.

26:08SpeakerThere's OG, there's Kush's, there's stuff that knocked me on my butt and slipped me into the hot tub at midnight. But I really couldn't believe that there were varieties that were like a shot of morning espresso and had that same, like, wake you up and motivate you and make you want to go to work. As weird as that might sound. Well, I guarantee you that will be our focus in Jamaica is Irie weed.

26:34EtienneIrie. Everything Irie? So, let's bring it back to Jamaica there for a second, Bubble Man. There's been a recent launch of the Marley's Naturals, which is a brand using Bob Marley's name, and I've heard, I mean, of course, I've heard, you know, cultural... Non-cultural people are excited about it, but those that are true cultural Rastafarians And Bunny, Whaler, and others have come out against it. I was wondering what you have heard or what is the prevailing feeling you're getting there.

27:07SpeakerPlease, ATN, if you can find this, I want a sample of all four of them to give to Philo's so that we can identify what variety it is, what the terpene and cannabinoid profiles are. Because it's an unknown variety. It's just red, gold, green, and black, four varieties. I want to show what it is.

27:28BubblemanIn my opinion, the Marley brand is a very slippery slope. The only way to make it positive and right and loved by the Rastas as well as loved by the Jamaican people as well as loved by the people worldwide, in my opinion, is for it to produce an enormous amount of wealth for Jamaica, for hospitals and schools and education and roads and... All sorts of different, yeah, like beyond non-profit.

27:56BubblemanI don't mind if they make profit. I'm not saying they can't make profit. They raised $50 million. It's a big company. It's hard to put that kind of money and not make profits. How about with a good chunk of the profits, you build the infrastructure here in Jamaica. You create educational packages so kids can go to school outside. Support what Bob believed in. Support what Bob believed in.

28:21BubblemanNow, people always said, oh, Bob would not want his name signed up to Babylon. First of all, Bob did exactly that. He signed his name up to Babylon. That's how we all know about him because they were record labels and that's how you fucking first heard about Bob Marley. You certainly weren't in Jamaica. You didn't know him as a local. You heard about him through Babylon, the LA, and the UK, and all these different hardcore record labels that are definitely generally not looking out for the artist's best intention.

28:47BubblemanBob knew this, of course. But if he could step a foot into that world to do good. I mean, Bob was the kind of guy that wrote out songs, No Woman, No Cry. He wrote it out to one of his buddies who ran a food cart. And that song paid that guy money for so long until, of course, the Marley family, Rita, sued him and won the rights for the song, even though Bob wanted him to have that song because it helped him.

29:11BubblemanAnd that's the way Bob was. That's my perspective. I didn't know Bob Marley personally. I knew people that knew him. I'm like you. I read the books. I read the stories. I listened to the music. His music touched my soul and then I'm able to have my own opinion which is not 100% factual. It is based on my opinion only. But I think it's a slippery slope with the Marley brand.

29:31BubblemanIt's why I personally, when I first heard it was happening, I was very inspired to try to be a part of it. I thought if we could get together and Breed a special amazing plant or two or three for the Marley's and then produce incredible high quality extracts. I would literally donate my profits to Jamaica just to make the Marley brand positive. And I offered the same thing to the Peter Tosh brand.

29:56BubblemanI spoke with the privateer guys and the Peter Tosh brand. So I don't know. They're important names to me and it's important that they don't get too commercialized Without doing really good work simultaneously.

30:10EtienneSo there's a Peter Tosh brand as well?

30:13BubblemanWell, the Tosh family's not going to sleep on this. And obviously, Bunny Whaler's pretty upset about all this. He wrote an article recently saying that, oh, that Rita Marley and Chris Blackwell murdered Bob Marley. It's like on the internet right now. So it's a little bit out there. It's definitely Bunny style. But... Hey, he was a part of it, dude. Like, in my opinion, no one can have more of an opinion than Bunny Whaler.

30:36BubblemanYou can call him crazy or not, he was there. He gets to have his opinion. He actually holds the name Whaler. So, his opinion is, in my opinion, more valuable than mine. I'm just, you know, here on Hash Church talking my thing.

30:50EtienneAnd what he says, he's basically speaking for the Rasta elders as well, correct?

30:55BubblemanWell, I mean, I think he's speaking for some Rasta elders because it seems like the Rasta community is like any community that is fractured. You have Nyabingis, you have Bobos, you have different camps, and I saw that at the Cannabis Cup. It was a group of Rastas who got the permission from the government and through the Roots Rasta High Times Cannabis Cup. It was not all Rastas, and when I asked around, like, oh, did you invite all the other camps, and they were like, no.

31:20BubblemanAnd I was like, so you just put this on with your own camp, but didn't invite all the other Rasta groups to come and be a part of it? I thought that was a little bit strange, but it's kind of like saying, who speaks for the cannabis community? I mean, holy shit, there's a wide variety of people who believe they speak for the cannabis industry, and some of them are very, very far edges of the stick from one another, meaning they're pretty much polar opposites in what they're saying.

31:45BubblemanLike, you couldn't be more dichotomous Thank you so much for joining us.

32:16BubblemanTwo cannabis. There's just no denying it.

32:18SpeakerUs deadheads come a close second to them, right, don't we? Who's that? The deadheads, the people who follow the Grateful Dead. You know what?

32:29BubblemanAbsolutely. Absolutely. The Grateful Dead for sure, but I mean it seems like the Rastafarians with the spiritualism are less likely to fall into heroin and meth and coke and being spun out of their minds for like 400 days of the year. Traveling around, kind of making a mess. I mean, I love the dead family, but let's be honest, a lot of them were not what you would call ideal, you know, representatives for the scene.

32:53BubblemanIt's like when they left, certain people would stay behind and clean the mess that all of those people made. So I have a love-hate relationship with tour.

33:03SpeakerYeah, like any slice of the human population, you're going to get all kinds whenever you grab a, A bunch of animals from the pool.

33:12BubblemanAnd same with Rasta. I mean, I've met dudes that call themselves Rastas, and then they're drinking whiskey, and I'm like, what the heck? Like, I thought you guys didn't drink alcohol. Like, that seems like a little... But like I say, it's belief systems, right? Who's to say what's right and what's wrong? All I know is I would love to talk about Terpenes and how they may or may not be affected by different varieties and different environments, sorry, and different altitudes.

33:39BubblemanSo we know what happens in the world of plants with lavender and chamomile and other things. Is there a way for us to manipulate terpene content with altitudes, Sam?

33:50SpeakerYeah, for sure. For sure, it can increase or decrease the amounts. I mean, when you look at the perfume industry when they're targeting terpenes like lavender, I think the best is grown, isn't it, in grass France? Which one is it, lavender? Lavender, yes.

34:11BubblemanYeah, it's grassland France.

34:13SpeakerYeah, that's where the best in the world is grown for a combination of soil, environment, maximum, minimum temperatures, you know, all those reasons. That's where the finest in the world is produced. And I guarantee if you grew it someplace not as good, it's not going to yield as much. So altitude, it depends on what it is you're dealing with. But with cannabis, altitude absolutely makes a difference, both positively and negatively.

34:44BubblemanSo possibly when we get where we're going with many, many more countries, possibly the world getting on par with growing cannabis, And everyone's allowed to play and everyone's allowed to sort of try their way. I mean, for all we know, incredible cannabis grows in some of these Muslim countries that you can be hung for just having a spliff. We don't know. We don't know what the environment would produce because although cannabis does grow most everywhere, it still isn't grown large scale everywhere.

35:14BubblemanAnd I think when we are able to do that…

35:17SpeakerIf you consider grapes, they grow an identical clone all over the world, all different places. And in certain places, it just does the best.

35:29BubblemanExactly. So it'll be interesting to see if we can find those certain places over the course of the next 20 years because it's a big world out there and there's a lot of places to plant herbs.

35:41BubblemanHey, welcome Horatio. We haven't heard from you. I just grabbed you on the sneeze. Sorry about that. Sorry about that.

35:46HoratioI had a thought and then I sneezed and I couldn't unmute it. I was going to say, Sam, now just within Jamaica, if you look at the stratifications for coffee and altitude and when you can sell something and when you can't, you could just, even just within Jamaica alone, create categories of cannabis if you just based it on the coffee planting map because that's another, like tomatoes and grapes, that Coffee would be more probably like cannabis because it can take a little bit of muted shade in the desert, but it can also, it can take a lot of environments and produce a lot of different profiles.

36:20HoratioIt doesn't have to be spicy. It can be muted. So when you say grassland lavender, I'm like, yeah, because lavenders are very soft. Tone, so it wants a soft environment. Would you say, like, I don't know what your experience is with coffee, Sam, but around the world, coffee gets pretty specific. And I know, like, in Jamaica, where, like, my family has land, they're like, oh, you could only grow lowland coffee.

36:42HoratioYou don't have a chance in hell of doing anything good. And I'm like, can I feed it well?

36:46SpeakerCoffee's kind of interesting in that there's two types of coffee. There's coffee arabica, which is the fancy, fancy stuff, and then there's robusta. Well, it's kind of like cannabis with Indica and Sativa. And it's also that way with other crops like tea. There's several varieties which are grown. But the end effect of it is, yes, growing coffee at different altitudes will absolutely create different microclimate crops, even probably of the same coffee tree.

37:27BubblemanI wonder if it's going to produce unique and different terpene profiles.

37:32SpeakerI don't think so. I think it's going to modify it.

37:36BubblemanLike increase the profile but not really like produce, you know, a unique terpene.

37:39SpeakerIf it's too hot, the volatile ones will be decreased. If it's, you understand? Yes. Absolutely. But, yeah, I mean maybe if one is not expressed in one place, maybe there's a possibility but That's genetically controlled, not environmentally controlled, even though it is a phenotypical expression that's controlled by the genetics.

38:06HoratioSam, would UV rays alter that equation? Because at a certain point, altitude does break into different bands of UV that just doesn't make it to the lowland plains. Nobody knows for sure.

38:20SpeakerWe tested UV. We tried to make it. Increase cannabinoids, increase terpenes, increase yield, increase anything. We were unable to do it. Isn't that the point of that hashishine? Hashishine is a degradation product that's formed, From oxidization and light, I think. From light, yeah. And oxidization. And heat. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, I think the mechanism that they draw on the paper, the mechanism I remember was a light-initiated mechanism that basically recombines mericene into this other form.

39:05SpeakerSo to answer your question, Horatio, can light affect terpene concentration? Absolutely yes. End of story. Yes, light can affect it.

39:16HoratioThat's kind of why I figured altitude argument over so many different crops over mankind is like, I'm like, I'll just take the coffee grower's guide to where grows the best coffee.

39:26SpeakerMy input on the altitude is that the altitude is really going to affect... Thank you so much for joining us.

39:49SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

40:18SpeakerNot only terpene content, but the way that the plant thrives and exists in those environments. What we will see over the next decade is every clone grown everywhere, and that question will be answered quite easily. If somebody finds a favorable way or location to grow it, they will.

40:44MrI was going to ask you, Stan, when you mentioned UVC and UVB light, so you're saying that it doesn't increase or do anything with resin production?

40:52SpeakerI have never seen it. We did a test where we got a whole bunch of UVTLs and we stacked them up and then made four rows of plants. The first row was like maybe one meter away. The second row two meters, the next row three, the next four. The first row got scorched. The second row got burnt a little bit. The third row wasn't hurt at all, but it had no increase.

41:22SpeakerThe same with the fourth row. We had controls, and Rob and I smoked everything that was treated all the different ways, and we could find nothing that was beneficial at all. And the yield was less. The control had more. Hey guys, I was able to finally pull in a friend of mine who's been someone I've been trying to get on as a guest for a while. His name's Dan.

41:46SpeakerHe has been organizing the Secret Cup, my Dan, for about four years now. And I've been lucky enough to, I met him through Vernon Phillips when I went to one of their parties and kind of fell in love with the event, to be honest. It was nothing like it. I'd never seen it. You know, Sam, it reminds me of Legends, but it's even more community-based. And, you know, I've told Mark I wanted to get you on for a while, and thank you for joining us today, Dan.

42:13SpeakerDoes your mic work? Does everything work? Yeah, I think so. How do I sound out there? Awesome. No technical difficulties. So, Mark, meet Dan. Dan, meet Mark. I know, you know, I've brought him up a zillion times. Yes, welcome, Daniel.

42:29BubblemanThanks for having me. Really appreciate it. I also want to welcome Chloe. Chloe Villano just came into the room as well, a new guest as well, that Mark Scaldone requested we invite it in, and I looked into her, and she's got a pretty interesting background as well, so... No pressure. We'll just go with wherever the conversation takes us, guys. Welcome both Dan and Chloe to the room.

42:52ChloeThank you.

42:53BubblemanHi, Chloe. Hello.

42:54ChloeHi, guys. Good to see you all.

42:57BubblemanGood to be seen. It's nice to have fresh new blood in the room, actually. It's nice to see some new people, and I'm sure you guys have lots to share with us. So maybe we were with Dan. Todd was going to go into Dan, so maybe you could continue with that and let Dan tell us what he's up to these days.

43:16SpeakerWe have a bunch of events planned coming up. We're doing probably the first cannabis competition in Washington, D.C. at the beginning of May. So the next secret cup is in D.C.? Yeah, it is. It's a private vacation style cup. It's more for the competitors than it is for the public. It's not really a trade show, this one. Is there a presidential cup? There's a finals. There's not a presidential cup.

43:42SpeakerSo how does the Secret Cup break down? I was a little amazed that there were that many people making hash all over the country that you've been able to do this. But if I understand it right, you have regionals and then you have a final at the end? Yeah, we have regionals, and the difference with us mainly is the judging. The competitors are actually the judges as well.

44:02SpeakerYou submit your entry in five individual rooms and 50.3s, and you receive back a .3 of everybody you're competing against. So you really get a chance to see what you're up against in the market. Wow, and now only the people that compete are actually the judges. Yeah, yeah, that's 100%. So there's no outside... None. So everyone's just trying to vote for themselves, basically. Well, the whole thing is it's some of the computer.

44:27SpeakerThe computer knows who is entering what, so it automatically kicks out your own score. So you give yourself all ones or all tens, and it won't affect the outcome either way. Wow. And you know, even though this started out as kind of a BHO event, last year a non-BHO entry, a water entry won. Is that right? Yeah, actually first and second place. First place was the Skittles Full Mount that won the championship.

44:53SpeakerThat was the winner overall. And then Rosin was second place. Right on. That's awesome. So you're seeing a lot of tech change in the three plus. How long has it been you've been doing this? Oh, we're on our fourth year now. Fourth year now.

45:09EtienneWow. So basically what you've been doing at Secret Cup, you do regional competitions around the country. Last year you did it around the world. And then you have a finals competition. And to my knowledge that to be in the finals, the first, second, and third of all the regional competitions get to compete as well as last year's first, second, and third. Am I correct?

45:32SpeakerYes, sir. Nailed it.

45:34EtienneNailed it. Wow.

45:41EtienneThis basically gives last year's second and third the chance to get another shot again, which I think is more than respectable because it gives, you know, if you just missed out, you get another shot at the same time. You've had to have placed everywhere else to finally win. Is it still an actual belt that they win in the end for the year?

46:02SpeakerYeah, the belt has their name engraved on it in the first place, and they get to hold on to it for a year. It gets passed to the next champion the following year. What's the size of the sample entry? 0.3 for each of the competitors. So if there were 40 competitors, it's about 20 grams, and you get back 12. And sometimes you see 40 competitors at your events?

46:29SpeakerThe bigger markets like California, Oregon, Washington, yeah definitely. For the East Coast it's usually about half that. Still impressive that you know under prohibition that people are you know coming out and you know I think for every one person that competes it has to you know 10 to 20 to 100 more hash makers that They don't have the courage or the ability to come participate. Or the resources.

46:54SpeakerHonestly, it takes a lot to compete even though our entry fees are so low. Well, that's one thing I really admired about you. You're so the anti-cannabis cup in a way. It's put on by a small group of two guys. You don't make any money. You make it so it's affordable. All the cash you raise, you put back into the parties. You're like socialist Democrats or some shit.

47:17SpeakerPretty much, pretty much. I mean, that's my political philosophy and that's what I try to bring to the events and try to make it about the experience and, you know, for the competitors as well. When I say I fell in love with your event, Dan, I fell in love with the community you created. When I went to the Secret Cups, they had a VIP party, which was really a party for the competitors, and I went with one of the people who wasn't competing that time but was a competitor routinely, and...

47:41SpeakerTo sit around with all these other hash makers, it was like being at Legends but not being at a dining table, but being at a place where you can move around, talk to each other, share your stash. It was really like a community experience that I hadn't experienced ever, and that's what I fell in love with, that community, that vibe you created, and I still love it.

48:03EtienneNot to mention the glass that's where everybody's hanging out with all their stash. There's a beautiful glass collection as well. But I mean, not only that, the hard work that you do, the logistics, I did writing for the Secret Cup for, I mean, and one of the samples, you can get anywhere from 40 to 80 different samples in an individual kit depending on where the actual sample is.

48:28EtienneAnd the logistics to do that, split that up and get that is got to be quite considerable.

48:35SpeakerYeah, for sure. We've got it down. We've got to get a system. If we have like five or six people, we can split up 40 samples in about 24 hours. Yeah. It's ridiculous. One of the things I'd like to bring up that you did is when you want to use it for the next year's contest, how do you store it? I'm sorry? I didn't quite catch that.

48:58SpeakerExcuse me. How do you store the resin? When you say that some has entered the second ear, No, no, no. It takes us about a day to sort out a bunch of entries. No, no. All right. The confusion is this, Sam. Okay, if you win first or second place in the national event last year, you have won the right to compete in the next year's... With the new sample.

49:27SpeakerWith the new sample, yeah. With the new sample. That's what I didn't understand. It's the winners of all the regionals and last year's nationals. Yep, no, I get it. No, I was wondering if resin was being maintained for one year. No, they make fresh. Yeah, and if so, how was it being kept? Because most resin I see, dry sift and water hash, if you keep it a year, good luck.

49:52SpeakerGood luck. No, it doesn't happen, you know.

49:54BubblemanI've got a nice nine-year-old piece you've got to smoke, Sam.

49:59SpeakerWell, yeah, you can do it. I mean, it's been done, but either somebody smokes it. That's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem today is when people make cash, it's not stable for long-term storage. This is true.

50:16BubblemanI would take responsibility on that one. You know, at least in the beginning, because, you know, right during the time I was really popularizing water extraction in the late 90s, early 2000s, I was also unaware of how to properly dry resin. I just didn't understand the multi-level of properly drying. I didn't understand that The resin head was wet on the outside of the head, and that was one level of drying.

50:44BubblemanBut then that wax membrane, which was also held quite a bit of moisture, also required to be dried because, unfortunately, we're hash makers in a time that people weren't drying, really, their material out properly to make hash.

50:57SpeakerAnd that's how the whole fresh frozen thing sort of... And dry shit, as you know, can pick up humidity. So one way or another, you... If you're going to store it, you've got to be slick.

51:10BubblemanAbsolutely. So I was reading a little bit about Chloe here, and she is the, I guess her deal is this university that you have going, Chloe. I think that's a really cool thing. This is this Cloverleaf University.

51:28BubblemanThere you go. What's there? Can you hear me now? Yeah, yeah, so that's, obviously Mark is going to do his chemistry of hashish at the Cloverleaf University.

51:39ChloeYeah, and it's really awesome because we're bringing this level of expertise into the industry that, you know, it's also a level, I think, of credibility and protection because we're going to get so heavily regulated as we go through this process, so to have people like Dr. Mark come in and really teach us The chemistry behind Hash is, it's really exciting and, you know, like we have Jair from Gavita doing lighting classes and it's really exciting.

52:05BubblemanThat is very exciting. You know, I see it happening more and more and the people that are supposed to be in these positions are getting recognized. And I mean, you know, Hash Church, we started a little thing and we brought all these great people together and, you know, Todd has been doing magazines and events for years and he sort of was smart enough once again to be like, you know, I have this incredible group of friends that I've known for 20 plus years, experts basically in the field, and there's never been a magazine Like that sort of thing.

52:36BubblemanSo he's going to be doing a magazine like that. When I looked at your Cloverleaf University, it reminded me of what Todd's going to be doing, but in a university version. So it's very cool that both of you guys are on this, getting the information out, getting the education out, and finding the right people to do that.

52:52ChloeWell, I think the right people is the most important part. And I think there's just a lot of people out there saying things. And so what I did is I put All of my classes through the Department of Higher Education's Private Occupational School Board. So I actually received accreditation as if you wanted to be a real estate agent or a massage therapist. And so we're working on a five-part technician program through Cloverleaf University.

53:17ChloeAnd we're actually in the middle of being ANSI accredited. That should be done within 60 days. So that's who does all the OSHA training and food safety handling. And we'll be incorporating pesticide application management and things like that into our courses. So we're really looking for the right people at any point to come join.

53:35BubblemanAbsolutely. Well, very cool. I haven't read a ton about it, but I'm definitely going to delve deeper into it, and I can tell Todd already is. Well, what state are you based out of?

53:45SpeakerColorado. Oh, very cool. You know, I think that training is the key. Believe it or not, before I got busted, my first website was...

53:57SpeakerGrowmedicine.com and my first book was How to Grow Medical Marijuana and my goal was to just hit, you know, basically hotel after hotel doing lectures teaching people how to grow their own medicine once we legalized pop and instead they locked me up. So I think that this type of education is important. I actually rented the Rhode Island Convention Center a few years back in conjunction with a local school here and my home state is Rhode Island so they always said I'd come back I mean, come back speaking about how to grow weed is what I ended up coming back doing.

54:29SpeakerBut I think it's important that we start teaching these elements in everyday business to people.

54:34EtienneIt is. It's so needed. Twenty-three years ago, actually, UC Boulder actually was fortunate to teach a class when I was doing the Cannabis Action Network. And we were able to, the professors organized us cannabis experts. It was me, LV Muzica, and a couple of other local Coloradans. And It was done in a study hall and it was full of people and it opened my eyes and later that year at the University of Delaware they refused to let us have any type of rally so the organizers actually snuck us into a classroom on a Saturday and that classroom was filled and spilling out of the room for us to just actually speak on the truth because all they wanted was truth, knowledge, and misinformation and the day of dare all they were getting is Drugs bad, marijuana bad, you're going to jail and we're going to take your student loan and fuck off.

55:27EtienneSo thank you, thank you. What you're doing is so much needed and hopefully will inspire other states to do the same because it's so needed nationwide, worldwide.

55:37ChloeI think there's a lot of opportunities that we can offer back to the world too with even people like your guys' expertise because I do watch you and I've looked at Hash Church and I think it's such an amazing group but As we go forward and we can bring all these resources in like labs and research and development and all these different tests and clinical trials to find out all the different strains and what they do, I think those components and the people that really have those strains and know how to make these processes and procedures are going to be really important.

56:07ChloeBecause right now it's kind of all over the map. I mean even New York banning smokable marijuana, which we're seeing happen like wildfire all over the East Coast, I think that If the knowledge doesn't come out that our chances of actually having a stable business is going to be really limited.

56:25EtienneHey, Chloe, people are asking in chat, how do they get in touch with you?

56:33ChloeCloverleafuniversity.com. And you could just go on there. We also have a contact page, so those will come directly to the university. Or you can email me at dr.chloevolano.com.

56:47SpeakerWhat is your background?

56:49ChloeI'm a former paralegal, entrepreneur, business owner, but I did mergers and acquisitions. I've ran multiple title firms, companies with hundreds of employees, and I've worked for some really amazing business attorneys. And so I learned how to really write contracts, legislation, learned how to read all of that stuff and translate it into what clients would understand. So It was very valuable when I could come into this industry, which I love to smoke weed.

57:17ChloeI've been a patient for almost 10 years and actually help with the processes. And then I started working with the first marijuana enforcement division and the first medical marijuana laws and Department of Ag, DORA. I've been on all their boards, and I actually helped write the concentrate laws here, even though they didn't give us a lot of say-so, but we had our input.

57:41BubblemanAnd what about your relationship with cannabis? You said you loved smoking cannabis and that you've been a patient for 10 years. Can you tell us a little bit about how that relationship with cannabis led you to focus your energies on this industry?

57:57SpeakerTell us about your brother, Chloe.

58:00ChloeWell, you know, I've used cannabis since I was about 17 years old, and it's always been a very good thing for me. I'm better on it. It's like a sports enhancer. I've I'm active. I can type 20 contracts and almost do it better on cannabis. And it's interesting because as we work with a lot of people in clinical trials, we realize that it does help with performance.

58:22ChloeWe have people even tell us that they can drive better on it, which is interesting. My 15-year-old brother got cancer in 2000. Well, he died in 2009. He got cancer in 2008. And I left Florida where I was living and I came back home to Colorado where I was raised and My mom, you know, he was going through his third round of chemo, and they gave him a 24% chance of living through it.

58:46ChloeAnd I told my mom that I was coming home, and she wanted to take him out of the country and try everything we could, so I went with her. And we had about 11 months with my brother until he passed away. And, you know, I called an ER doctor that was a very good friend of mine who works at Holy Cross Medical in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And I said, can you tell me if my brother's going to die?

59:06ChloeBecause I really need to know. And he said, Chloe... Just keep fighting and whatever you do, give him cannabis. And I was smoking it just to deal with my brother and all of the trauma and what was happening and I was really doing an amazing job taking care of him. But it was traumatic and I said, but he's only 15. And he said, do it. And so I started grinding it up in blenders, putting it in his food.

59:29ChloeI started stuffing pills. The only Rick Simpson oil I could even find at that time was like $2,000 and it was somewhere out of New Mexico for like a little while and my mom and I couldn't afford it. And so, you know, we just really struggled until my brother died. He had a really aggressive cancer and he was at that puberty stage so his cells were reproducing very quickly.

59:52ChloeI learned the medical benefits of cannabis and being raised in a very religious home where I had always not been able to talk to my mom, You know, just now recently have I been able to even explain to her that those last few months the reason he had that quality of life was because I was sneaking it in his food and things like that.

1:00:10BubblemanWow, that's a very powerful story. Thank you for sharing that with us, Chloe. It's touched my heart.

1:00:15ChloeWell, thanks.

1:00:17SpeakerNow it's sad that a lot of us don't get motivated until our lives get stepped on by cancer or something that really devastates us. I mean, I really, you know, I'm glad that you kind of came over to this side of the fence and decided to be an advocate after that. You know, when I was a little kid I had cancer too and they made me one day not want to talk to my, they wanted me to talk to somebody and then when they said don't talk to him about marijuana I just looked up and said you want me to lie?

1:00:44SpeakerAnd he turned me around my doctor and walked me back to my mom and said, It isn't going to happen and I lived with that for a long time and it's one of the things that kind of brought me as a little kid into studying pot and wanting to be an advocate because I felt like they didn't want me to tell the truth. It was so obvious.

1:01:03ChloeYeah, no, it's, you know, once you have that fight in you, I think that, you know, nothing can stop me now from helping patients or Thank you so much for joining us.

1:01:29ChloeYou know, we never even thought about that aspect until Colorado decided to go into recreational marijuana laws after, you know, a couple years of medical. And that's when we really thought about it. It was like we fought so hard for patients for so long, but then we realized that there were thousands of people that wanted this, you know, just to say it's safer than any other substance, alcohol or everything, and these people should not be in jail for it.

1:01:55BubblemanYeah, absolutely. I mean, it's a two-sided sword. Not only are people in jail, but people that would have otherwise had a real fighting chance to secure, in the least, a higher quality of life as they're leaving this plane, and in the most, to turn that around and shut that disease off and acquire more years in their life, to be able to be shut out from that... It's a pretty heavy duty agenda and depending on your perspective and how you look at it, was it ignorance?

1:02:21BubblemanIs it an agenda? Are they doing it on purpose? You become very fired up and you can become very passionate and I have to say, Chloe, it's always folks like yourself, like Todd, like so many of the people on the panel that the people that seem to have the real Fight in this game are the people that have, you know, nearly been taken out, had cannabis save their life, or have had loved ones taken out that were not in a position to be able to use cannabis, but now with what we know.

1:02:52BubblemanI mean, it's a very, very, very powerful fight that we've all taken upon ourselves, and it seems as though we're finally starting to really gain traction, and I don't want to say win, because it's a lifelong battle, but we're gaining traction.

1:03:08EtienneWe're proving them right more than anything. Remember, they laughed at us over this whole medical marijuana. Each and every one of us have been laughed in our faces by our doctors, physicians, nurses, etc. along the way saying, yeah, medical marijuana, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, right. But yet, we've all got active and involved because our lives have all been adversely affected to the point where we realize that we're not the only ones suffering and if we've Able to, well, why the fuck not?

1:03:38EtienneIf we're not going to do it, who else will? So, thank you all.

1:03:42ChloeWell, now they all want in, so, you know, it's going to be... So what?

1:03:46EtienneWell, let them in. You know, if they let in, then go fucking educate them. Make them fucking aware. There's a lot of education these people need to know and a lot of respect for this plant as well as how to handle it that they need to know, which is why Colorado is putting up billboards saying, hey, don't ruin your vacation by eating an edible. You know, start off slowly.

1:04:06SpeakerAlso, I'm happy they want in. Don't you wish every prison guard, every policeman wanted in on medical marijuana? I do.

1:04:15BubblemanYes, I do as well, Sam, and I was just going to say that this is what we've been fighting for for years. We can't be sensitive when people want to come in and be a part of this and they're clueless and they don't, they're all like, you know, they might be coming from the wrong, don't worry, they're going to get into it the way they get into it, but have faith in cannabis, that if they're exposed to it and they're around it, they're around people who are around it, it's going to better them.

1:04:37SpeakerIt's exactly what you see, have faith in cannabis.

1:04:40BubblemanYes, have faith in cannabis. It's easy. You don't have to have faith in the people. It's have faith in the cannabis. It's a... On a hash church.

1:04:48ChloeWell, no, I think it's great they want to, and I think it's great to have a platform to be able to educate them, but I think it is going mainstream, and, you know, as I see it moving forward, I mean, people want to talk. My mom even introduced me to all her friends at church as her daughter who's in the marijuana business when, you know, she hated what I did for so long.

1:05:06ChloeSo I think that people are becoming accepting of it, and it does feel really good.

1:05:11BubblemanAbsolutely. I have the same situation. Not that my mother hated it, but she worked for the police my entire, most of my life. She spent 35 years at 911 as the main chief operator, so she knew every cop in the city. They used to always come to our house. I remember the pool party where the vice squad was all wearing wife beaters with the big pot leaf on it that said Winnipeg Vice, and they're all in my backyard.

1:05:33BubblemanAnd I'm like, you know, going to be bubble man in like 10 years. Like, it was definitely a strange way to grow up in Winnipeg, but now my mother is very proud and supportive, posts stuff on her Facebook page, will gladly tell all of her friends and work people what I'm doing, and is genuinely proud of the work that I've been doing, and that's just kind of a cool thing, you know?

1:06:00SpeakerI guarantee you, when I started the world's first medical marijuana company more than 25 years ago, we were licensed by the Dutch government, but everybody in the government, all their inspectors, they said, marijuana is a drug of abuse. It will never be a medicine. And I said, you are so wrong. But it was a long, long, long, hard fight.

1:06:27BubblemanYeah, well, you know what? Props to you, Sam, for going about doing it in a way that was the harder way to do it. It wasn't just like, oh, let's keep it all secret. Let's just be illegal. Let's just do the whole prohibition thing. You really went the legal route that the way you had, you knew, you recognized that the work you needed to do needed to be done through a certain platform.

1:06:50SpeakerThey said the same thing to Sasha Shogan about MDMA, just for the record. Yeah. Oh, people will never be interested in that.

1:07:03BubblemanYeah. Wow, were they wrong.

1:07:05SpeakerSasha came and visited my laboratory here in Amsterdam. Oh, tell us about that, Sam. That's awesome. No, no. I was interested in showing him dry sift. That was about 80-90% pure resin heads, so that when you heated it to take a draw, not him, me, it totally melted and bubbled, just dry sipped. He was quite amazed, quite interested, and his core interest is not really cannabis.

1:07:38EtienneWe were fortunate to host him in, I think, 2004, him and Anna.

1:07:44EtienneTo speak for an afternoon at Berkey Patients Group and shamans from literally around the country flew in just to ask them questions because, you know, it's not very often that they actually came out and did Q&A.

1:07:58SpeakerI've had quite a lot of famous visitors actually. Dr. Osole, Dr. Mishulam, just on and on and on. I've had a Really a lot of professional cannabis researchers.

1:08:12EtienneWhat did El Soli say? I'd love to hear that one.

1:08:16SpeakerI took him around to the Amsterdam Hash Museum and to a couple coffee shops and I bought some cannabis so he could see how it worked.

1:08:26EtienneWhat year was that?

1:08:28SpeakerAh, shit, I can't remember. I'd have to think about it. What decade? I don't know. A decade or two ago.

1:08:40EtienneWe were at the ICRS in, what, I think, 08, 09, my group, and they came around and saw the Canna Bible.

1:08:47SpeakerWhere was that at? In 08, I think it was in Hungary.

1:08:50EtienneYeah, I believe it was in Hungary. And El Soli was there, and they came around and they saw the Canna Bible book, and they said that that was fiction, that marijuana didn't look like that. So we ended up making, you know, we ended up sending them copies of all that, so. That just tells me if you went around and you showed him that he was just full of shit.

1:09:10SpeakerI visited Dr. O'Sullivan's laboratory and growing facilities in Mississippi. I liked him as a person, but he, let's face it, he works for the fucking Death Star.

1:09:24EtienneQuoted for motherfucking truth.

1:09:27SpeakerHe's kind of hamstrung. He does pretty good for a pretty bad situation that he's in. Someone's got to do it. He just happens to be the guy.

1:09:37EtienneRight. And his suppositories have not caught on at all.

1:09:40SpeakerNo, no. No, I've heard in San Francisco they're all the rage. I heard they were a pain in the butt. We haven't had a chance to say it, but, Chloe, I wanted to say a bomb rip for you. No, we need to.

1:09:54MrYeah, bomb rip, guys. Just wanted to say that, and I'm going to let everybody go. It was great hearing your story, and, yeah, one for your brother, Chloe.

1:10:03BubblemanHey, thanks, Johnny B. Sure.

1:10:11MrPeace, guys.

1:10:13BubblemanHave a great day, John.

1:10:14SpeakerTake care, John. Later, John. Hey, you know, Dan, I wanted to ask you about when you guys started doing residual testings in the Secret Cup and how the competitors reacted to that because if I remember back, it was like, It was, I honestly thought you guys were going to grenade your own event when you started looking into the depth of VHO and instead it seems like you caused the industry to clean itself up.

1:10:37SpeakerI would love to hear how all that went down and what the response was from your competitors. Well, the first time we ever did that was for the very first competition, and I'm happy to say we've had residual testing for every single competition we've done since then. I think we were the first ones to actually do it, and it was Herbal Synergy that did it, and it was kind of weird because the way he did his testing, like a really high score would have been like 50 ppm, and a really low one would have been undetectable, you know?

1:11:06SpeakerBut, you know, testing the same stuff at other labs as the methodology got better, it's actually way higher than that, like to a magnitude of 10, I think.

1:11:15EtienneWhat are you testing for, Dan? Give everybody an understanding.

1:11:19SpeakerAt first, we were just testing for any kind of hydrocarbons. Like gas chromatography? Uh-huh. Okay, and so... It ranges because we're not using the same lab at every competition. We use pretty much every regional lab we could use across the country. You know, like MCS in Boston, analytical 360 in the Pacific Northwest, SC Labs, Steve Hill in California. We use them all. Were they using the same method?

1:11:49SpeakerNo, never. So the results have been all over the place. I think the way that it's contributed to the whole knowledge base is that if you take 40 samples and give them to one lab, you can tell which one's the highest and which one's the lowest in basic range, but it's really difficult to compare the results from one lab to another. So when you get a sample that fails, that doesn't pass the test, do they go back and retest that sample?

1:12:18SpeakerI'm sure they do. As far as I know, every place that has had a really bad testing has gone back and redid it. We've had a couple labs actually request more of a sample because we needed to retest it. Do you know if they do multiple replicates for one sample or just one replicate? It's going to range from lab to lab, but from my understanding, they do multiple for the same one because for this, you know, for the contest, it's like a lot of advertising for the lab.

1:12:44SpeakerSo they always want to make sure they do a good job. I think we've been kind of scammed a couple times in different labs, but, you know, usually they just put their all into it. Are you testing for terpenes or cannabinoids or pesticides? After a couple of years, we started testing for, well, we've only tested for cannabinoids, but we're actually testing for terpenes now. How about microbial?

1:13:06SpeakerHow do you even work for it?

1:13:10SpeakerFor concentrates, I don't think that usually comes up, but at least with flowers. Well, you know what? Now that we're starting to let people compete with water hash, actually, you should start looking for mold because look at the... Yeah, I believe it was tested for that, but not... Yeah, you know, Mark, a lot of why we didn't look for mold is because the HO doesn't pick it up.

1:13:31SpeakerYou're not going to have mold. You're going to have hydrocarbon residues in what we were initially running, but now that it's opened wider... Yeah, mold will be something that for sure is looked for.

1:13:42BubblemanBut not just hydrocarbons. I always wondered why they don't test the BHO for the heavy metal contaminant that's in the mystery oil. Because if you're not testing for that, it could still be there while you're testing for the hydrocarbon itself. That's not the problem.

1:13:56SpeakerI would love to. If the lab offers that testing, I'm going to definitely ask them to every single time.

1:14:00BubblemanI think it's as important as testing for microbials and water hash because we know that butane is contaminated often with these heavy metal contaminants.

1:14:10SpeakerAnd it's easy to clean them up, Mark. All they have to do is run it a few times through a closed loop system. They can fucking clean up that shit.

1:14:19BubblemanYeah. Although when Khalid came in and said he was trying to do it with the CO2 canisters because he left BHO for CO2 and then realized CO2 has the exact same shit in there because it's just canisters, machine oil inside. And so he said he kept distilling it, and he just always kept getting more. He said he never got it to a point. And he said this in Hash Church, and he seemed like a pretty intelligent guy that had done the work already.

1:14:43BubblemanHe just said no matter how fine it was, there was always some that he could rub off with like a paper towel. I've never done it, so it's just all sort of discussion for me. I've never... It is scary.

1:14:56SpeakerIt's pretty different, but you know, like with my regular concentrated work, we distill all our butane until it's clean and nothing really wipes off. Right. That's good. And I've got to say, I've got three Secret Cup competitors on the panel today. That's pretty awesome. Horatio, the Reverend right there, and Lorenzo.

1:15:15BubblemanHey, welcome, Lorenzo. I want to give a shout out to Lorenzo. You're in Barcelona right now?

1:15:24LorenzoYeah, in my house in Barcelona.

1:15:26BubblemanExactly, so Lorenzo is a good friend from, you're still rocking Nerd Extracts?

1:15:32LorenzoYeah, I'm going to open Nerd Creation in March for Seeds.

1:15:36SpeakerNerd Creation, awesome. Me and Lorenzo collaborated one year.

1:15:42LorenzoYeah. I remember. My first competition ever was thanks to Big D. I owe this man so much. I think I was there.

1:15:51BubblemanI think I was there. Yeah, you was there.

1:15:53LorenzoYou was there.

1:15:54BubblemanYeah, congratulations.

1:15:55LorenzoYou were there.

1:15:57BubblemanI wanted to give Lorenzo a shout out because he's helping right now, really helping a lot, organize the Legends of Hashish party that's going to happen in Barcelona next month, in a couple of weeks actually.

1:16:10LorenzoYeah, a couple of weeks.

1:16:12Bubbleman13th of March. So I just wanted to give you a shout out for helping, dude. You've been an incredible help. I don't know if I'd be able to get it done without you as well as Javier from Medical Seeds and Edu. Lots of help from you guys. So give thanks on that.

1:16:26LorenzoIt'll be good to see you in person. You're pretty welcome. You're going to be amazed.

1:16:31SpeakerI have a question, Lorenzo. Is the electric plug there the same as Amsterdam?

1:16:37LorenzoYeah, almost the same. But for everything you need, I'm going to bring a lot of volt changer. So don't worry about it.

1:16:46BubblemanYou'll have enough for us.

1:16:48LorenzoYeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to bring like 10, 15 volt changers so you won't have any problem.

1:16:56BubblemanExcellent. So what's the vibes like in Barcelona right now, Lorenzo? That's pretty good.

1:17:01LorenzoI have actually thousands of people that want to compete. They're asking me, well, how can I do? How can they do? And I'm saying, I'm no one. I can decide nothing. You've got to talk with the big guy.

1:17:13BubblemanWell, I'll tell them all right now. The simple way to do it, it's not really a big competition sort of thing. It's just show your hash at the booth, the medical seeds booth. I'll have a little chunk in Javier's booth, and I'll probably be with Tony and a few other good friends. And if we look at the hash and we smoke a little bowl or a dab and it's entry worthy, then it's like that gets you a ticket to the party.

1:17:36BubblemanYou don't get a ticket because you own DNA genetics.

1:17:40LorenzoNo, exactly because you deserve it.

1:17:43BubblemanEveryone is on equal footing at Legends and it's more about the evening itself than trying to win anything, I think. But whatever it means to you, come on out and check it out. It's going to be a fun night. Barcelona.

1:17:56SpeakerMy legends of passion have been really stoked to win it. I can say that for sure.

1:18:01BubblemanThey have, absolutely. Because you know what? It's such the way the world is when you just try to like, like the first time we threw it, it was just about being a real small little event and it was really mostly about pulling the best out of the Cannabis Cup because the Cannabis Cup had a lot of good. It had all these great people that were getting pulled to Amsterdam and clearly it was a powerful name because We didn't seem to do it as much in any other place.

1:18:27BubblemanAmsterdam for years was the place where everyone went for these cannabis cups. And we just wanted to pull the best out of that and leave all the commercials. So we thought no promoting companies, no like cell phone photos and social media updates or pictures of any kind. You know, kind of secret, low key, not telling anyone about where the venue is and stuff and just keeping it on the down low.

1:18:53BubblemanAnd if you wanted to celebrate hash for a night, that's really what it was. I mean, it was Sam and I sitting in his living room. And the two of us are just like we love hash and not just for the medicinal benefits but to get stoned. We also love to get high. We quite enjoy it. It's one of the things for me that taught me an enormous amount about cannabis and my ability to retain that information and to articulate it came from my relationship from a young age smoking cannabis and growing up and continuing smoking it, making it better and growing it better and then concentrating it and Isolating and decontaminating it to the point where the hash just got so good, it became a religious experience.

1:19:38SpeakerOnce it melts and bubbles, a light goes on in your brain.

1:19:42BubblemanDude, I'm telling you, the first time I ever saw that was yours in 1995, and it was the first time I heard, if it don't bubble, it ain't worth the trouble. And I just thought, how fucking cool are those guys? I just could not believe that you guys had hash that turned into an oil in like 1995. And I know you had it way before that too, but to me it was absurd that you had it then.

1:20:10SpeakerSo now, every time we go, we see it. Dry Sip, Water Hash, it's everywhere now.

1:20:17BubblemanWell, last year I was very impressed with Barcelona. I'm not going to lie. And I talked to Soma about it and asked him, wow, when did Barcelona become like so on point with the hash? Like there are people just crushing Water Hash, those zombie guys. Zombie Kush, what was that? Ripper Seeds.

1:20:34LorenzoRipper Seeds, yeah, David.

1:20:36BubblemanFire.

1:20:37LorenzoYeah. Fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:20:38BubblemanHaving medical seeds. Fire. Like there's a lot of people.

1:20:43LorenzoI know that there is a couple of clones of the Zombie Goosh out there in California.

1:20:48BubblemanSo are you seeing more good hash at the clubs there, Lorenzo?

1:20:53LorenzoYou're going to be really amazed this year. This year, okay, so the BHO scene is not that big here. The BHO scene is really small. It's really small. Everyone is about dry sift, water ash, way much more about water ash than anything else.

1:21:11BubblemanWell, it's really... And when did that happen, do you think? Around 2012, they really seemed to pick up the ball? Because that's when Soma noticed it, the first year that he didn't really have to bring his own hash, even though he did. 2013, he felt... Or 2012, I should say, he started seeing hash that was smoke-worthy, and by 2013, 14... He was just completely, you know, quite impressed with the variety available.

1:21:34LorenzoI will say 2013 it exploded. I mean it started to everybody to really focus on the good product and not on the quantity because, you know, Barcelona, Spain in general was really about quantity and not quality. Now everything is changing with the clubs. Everybody is trying to keep the club up. And for having a club that works, you need a product that works. And everybody is stepping up and stepping up.

1:21:59LorenzoBut I can tell you, every club has bubble bags. Every club makes a water ash glass. Every club makes, I mean, it's way much bigger than BHO here.

1:22:15BubblemanWell, you know, it's really nice to hear that they're doing a classy quality, you know, clubs and with quality, whether it's the BHO or any other rosins or bubble hashes or dry sifts or bud for that matter. I just like that Barcelona, like, and I say this to the entire 1,100 people watching right now, that this is an incredible city to visit regardless if you enjoyed cannabis, but you can almost make Barcelona...

1:22:43BubblemanA cannabis destination, so if you're a person that enjoys smoking but you also want to go on a nice trip and where it's warm and the food is incredible and the people are wonderful. Barcelona is pretty, pretty fucking awesome. I'd have to give it a two thumbs up.

1:22:59LorenzoI made this place my house, so yeah, I can tell you. For me, till now, it's the best place I've ever been and I tripped a lot.

1:23:09BubblemanYes. Well, it was nice to smoke all that hash with you and John Burfellow outside of the site.

1:23:14LorenzoYeah, yeah. I still have all the boxes.

1:23:19LorenzoYeah, yeah, yeah, of course. No, no, man, this year you're going to be amazed. I can tell you this year the level is way much higher. Way much higher.

1:23:29BubblemanI'm very excited to be with Sam and go see Ben's museum because he, of course, has known Ben many years longer than myself and they've collected and they've collected against one another and then sort of formed so they didn't collect against one another and I think Sam's going to be really touched. When he sees what Ben's done with this museum, so I'm going to be very happy to be standing next to him when he does.

1:23:54SpeakerI've actually seen the museum, but it was in the middle of being torn apart and reconverted. Exactly, which is why... Ben worked for nine years rebuilding that museum.

1:24:05BubblemanDude, I only saw the pictures, but that's why I think your experience is going to be so powerful, Sam, because you saw it when it was being ripped apart and restored, and it's really, really impressive. My hat off Tip my hat to Ben Dronkers. He did a really incredible job on that museum. Something all cannabis users could be proud of.

1:24:26SpeakerWhat is the law in Spain exactly? What's the possession law and the use law and the cultivation law?

1:24:33LorenzoOkay, so we're living in a big gray area. It works like this. So we have clubs. Clubs works. You can subscribe to the club and ask the club to grow for you the weed you should grow in your place, okay? It should be like four plants each person, but even this number is not that sure. I mean, it's really a gray area, but... Till you are in a private place, you mostly can do whatever you want for the low, okay?

1:25:06LorenzoSo, the clubs work till that. As the club is a private place, because you gotta subscribe to the club and be a member of the club, you can smoke inside and you can purchase whatever the club grows, because it's your grow, because you subscribe to the club and you ask the club to grow your weed. Problem is, you can't bring nothing outside of the club for the low.

1:25:29LorenzoI mean, everybody brings stuff outside, but you gotta hide it in private place, you know? And if you get caught in the street, you just get a fine. If you get caught with a grow, if it's not that big, like eight lights, ten lights, you just get a fine. The law is not that strict, but it's not legal yet.

1:25:54SpeakerNow, we're all tourists. If we'd be visiting, is it okay for tourists to consume?

1:26:00LorenzoOkay. As a tourist, what I suggest to you is smoke just inside the clubs or in really, really, I'm going to say, areas where there are not that many people that can smell your... Because you're going to get... People get bothered of people smoking around because they don't want a new Amsterdam, you know? They wanted legalization, but they wanted... You know, like America, you can smoke in the street, you can smoke in your place, da da da, all this stuff.

1:26:28LorenzoWhat I suggest to you, if you want to bring your stuff, hide it well, and as tourists, if you get coked, anything, nothing happens. You just get the fine, but you don't have to pay it as a tourist. You don't have to pay it, just go in the files they have, but you don't have any problem about it. Hmm.

1:26:51BubblemanYeah, I always got a pretty good vibe from Barcelona. I mean, obviously, there's little tips like when you're on the Ram Blast at night.

1:26:56LorenzoExactly, exactly. If you're not in the center, in the center, you're, I mean, I shouldn't say, but I smoke in the street. I just, I'm really quiet. I don't smoke puffing around, just a couple puffs, just, but not on the Ram Blast. And all for NorCal Genetics can tell you, because he was smoking on the Rambla last year, and they searched him so badly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:27:22LorenzoBut he was puffing on the Rambla near kids, near, I mean, just a little bit of discretion, you know?

1:27:28BubblemanYep, yeah, exactly. Discretion goes a long way, although we did film that wicked session.

1:27:33LorenzoYeah, we're smoking the secret of the familia.

1:27:35BubblemanDiscretion.

1:27:39LorenzoThat was amazing. That was amazing.

1:27:42BubblemanThat was amazing. I mean, for those of you that don't know, Google that, Sangrada de Familia. It is the most ridiculous, gaudy creation. Like, it is really over the top.

1:27:51LorenzoIt's still building. It's 400 years they are building it. It's still not finished.

1:27:58EtienneIt will be done in 2027.

1:28:01LorenzoYeah, exactly, exactly.

1:28:03EtienneThat's just wild.

1:28:04LorenzoIt's unbelievable. You can see so many different kind of influence. That's pretty awesome. That's one of my favorite places in Barcelona.

1:28:13EtienneTo me, it's amazing. I recommend it if you can. If you do go to that church, take the... One of the elevators up one of the towers because the views you will get of Barcelona are unsurpassed. Out of those little windows. Be careful of the time though. I made it right at the top of the hour and I was right at the top and the bells went off and it was fucking loud.

1:28:37EtienneHoly shit. Don't make this.

1:28:40BubblemanYeah, that can really hush your buzz. I'm not going to lie. Here's a funny story to give us a little break in Hash Church. I Was on the mountain with my friends snowboarding on Whistler and we said jokingly, hey, let's go back to your apartment and get uncomfortably high. Actually, this is my friend Paul Morrison who actually passed away last year in Amsterdam. So this will be a shout out to Paul Morrison.

1:29:02BubblemanWonderful, incredible man. He said, yeah, yeah, let's go back to my place and get uncomfortably high. So we went back to his West End apartment and we took one rip out of the pipe and we set off the fire alarm. And the fire alarm was excruciatingly loud. And it was going off and we called and we sort of made up a story that we burnt some toast in the toaster even though they laughed.

1:29:25BubblemanThe whistler guys were like, well if you guys are going to burn any more toast, do it out on the deck. It was really quite funny. But the alarm went off for like 10 or 15 minutes and about 15 minutes in when we were literally like, I can't be in this room anymore, my friend Paul looked at me and he said, this is not what I meant by uncomfortably stoned.

1:29:45BubblemanI thought it was quite cute. RIP Paul Morrison. We loved you, buddy.

1:29:54BubblemanAll right. That's nice. What do we got? We're an hour and a half into Hash Church. We've got 1,100 people watching.

1:30:01EtienneWhat's your plan for Jamaica this week? Are we going to see more plots or is it going to be more, My partners are planting seeds right now.

1:30:11BubblemanSo I wanted to go plant seeds with our company and be like the guy that's like, yeah, look at me, I'm planting seeds in Jamaica. But my hash church, our hash church, our hash church, is much more important to me than being there for some seeds getting planted. I'll be there the next time some seeds get planted. So I owed it to you guys to stay back and do hash church.

1:30:35BubblemanCan't do that from a ganja field. Thank you, sir.

1:30:37SpeakerDo you think in I Shot the Sheriff when Bob Marley says, every time I plant the seed, he said, kill it before it grows? Do you think he's talking about ganja? Oh, gosh, yeah. I thought he was talking about the male plant. Oh, no. Oh, my God. That's the whole point, though. Every time I plant the seed.

1:31:03SpeakerHe said, get it before it grows. I think he's talking about ganja there. I really do.

1:31:09BubblemanWell, I absolutely would say he's talking about ganja.

1:31:12SpeakerBecause it was Sheriff John Brown come and shoot him down. I mean, why would the sheriff come and shoot him down if he's just growing food?

1:31:21EtienneYou know who would know? He showed up. He was an activist. He was standing up against the system, and the system didn't like him. That's why they came to shoot.

1:31:29SpeakerI think it was a ganja sheet. I think it was a ganja sheet he was planning.

1:31:33BubblemanI would say I always assumed it was, but we could certainly ask Lee Jaffe, who was there. He introduced Bob Marley to Eric Clapton and how that song ended up getting covered by him.

1:31:44SpeakerI'm pretty sure he was growing soybeans.

1:31:50SpeakerI think it was a metaphor. He was planning ideas, too. Why would the sheriff shoot him down for growing soybean?

1:31:56BubblemanYes, Daniel, that sounds good as well.

1:31:58SpeakerWe really should try to get Lee Jackie. They were Monsanto soybeans. Oh, come on. I think it was the ganja seed. I really do. Let's try to figure that out, Marcus.

1:32:15BubblemanYes. Well, we'll have to ask someone that was there. You know, lots of people were.

1:32:18SpeakerI bet you if I ask three different people... Well, if you ask Wikipedia, his old girlfriend came out and said that it was about the birth control pill and he substituted doctor with sheriff.

1:32:32EtienneReally?

1:32:32SpeakerYeah, that's what it says. You know, in 2012... No, I bet you there's a few other stories. To the surprise of many, she explained that the lyric, Sheriff John Brown always hated me for what I do not know. Every time I plant the seed, he say, kill it before I grow, was actually in response to the fact that Marley was very opposed to her use of birth control pills.

1:32:53SpeakerMarley's opposition to birth control led Marley to substitute the word sheriff for doctor.

1:33:00SpeakerInteresting. But you know what, Mark, you were talking earlier about religion, and honestly... Thank you for watching.

1:33:21SpeakerYou know what? It's starting to make a lot more sense, actually, now that you put it that way.

1:33:26BubblemanYeah, but what I was saying about that is if you asked like eight other people that were there, like Bunny Whaler and, you know, Lee Jaffe and Rita and all these people, they would all probably have a different story is all I'm saying.

1:33:38SpeakerWell, now you know why the Bob Marley brand marijuana has to be sold so much everywhere because all those kids need support.

1:33:47BubblemanThere you go. Well, I hope they do the good thing, you know, bringing it back to the Marley brand and the Tosh brand. It's an important legacy that you don't want to taint, that you'd want to maintain and continue to do well with, not try to sell to like a marketing firm in New York City or something. But we'll see. We'll see what they do.

1:34:10SpeakerYou know, the same things happen with Garcia. You know, Jerry's been gone all these years and a lot of people, there's a whole enterprise and a lot of people, you know, basically make money on Jerry's legacy. And yeah, the music will be, you know, there forever for everyone to enjoy and speaks for itself and stands on its own. You know, if they try to brand cannabis with it, that's fine.

1:34:34SpeakerYou know, I mean, I think that both Bob and Jerry would be like laughing about this whole thing.

1:34:40EtienneAre they going to come up with a Jerry Garcia marijuana tie? Oh my God.

1:34:47SpeakerI'm sure they're going to come up with a Jerry Garcia brand of cannabis someday. I mean, I'm sure they all will because it's just such a… Wouldn't it be a brand of heroin? Oh, sorry. Stop now. Come on.

1:35:01ChloeWell, look how many brands are being developed right now. I mean, Snoop Dogg just did a deal with Litwell, and so he's going to be… Having his own brand, they say Rihanna is and I mean I have hundreds of clients that I've consulted for which kind of led into my university and many of them are being approached by a lot of celebrities who want to put their name on something and I think it's a really good way to go if you have products because then you could just buy a bunch of packaging and actually not have to deal with the hands-on licensing and things like that especially if you have things like felonies or you can't be in the business.

1:35:34ChloeBecause you could own those names and own those brands without actually having to And then license those brands and make your money, you know, if you make one or two dollars per package. But a lot of celebrities want it now, and I think now's the time that, you know, they, I don't know if they know what good product is, but, you know, it's interesting to see these deals being done.

1:35:55SpeakerYeah, I mean, this is the interesting double edge of corporate cannabis. It's kind of like what Sam was, we were talking about last week in reference to GW Pharmaceuticals and so many other companies that again need to understand some type of Thank you so much for joining us.

1:36:41ChloeWell, I think the regulation is going to be crazy when it comes to product control here pretty soon because, like Daniel said, I mean, a lot of people can take the initiative to do testing, but now they have state mandated batch testing and that's going to be a lot, you know, where you have to test every batch and there's going to be certain protocols that you have to go through in order to test it.

1:37:00ChloeI mean, it's going to be a lot more difficult to be in the business and, you know, not as fun when it's regulated like that, but it will produce the best product because we'll know what residuals and All those different things that we're allowed to have.

1:37:14SpeakerI don't know. Speaking of Live Well, they are getting rich producing the worst product on the market. The term Live Well is interchangeable with swag. I got a sack of Live Well.

1:37:26BubblemanNo, it's true. Tweet as well has the same similar name. They've got since hired DNA to help turn that around for them. I've never personally seen their herb, but they were getting called out that their herb wasn't as quality. This was some time ago now. And I suspect even people that never tried their herb anyway would hate them enough to just go online and call their herb schwag regardless just because people fought for mainstream cannabis and when it came in they realized that the mainstream cannabis was going to compete with their own personal monopoly they had in the world of prohibition because they were brave enough to continue selling it while it was still illegal.

1:38:07BubblemanThey don't want to compete. Both groups hate one another, and there's got to be something done for these two groups. It's not about either of these two groups. It's about access to people and to patients, regardless if it's recreational or medicinal. It's about access. I hope to see as many people allowed in the free market as possible because only the cream will rise to the top. And then people are saying, oh, fuck mainstream this and fuck celebrity weed.

1:38:34BubblemanAnd it's like, listen, we fought for years to get this mainstream. Well, that is the mainstream. Now you're mad at how they're going to go about it and you're going to fight a new hole fight. Well, okay, in my opinion, let them go about it how they want to as long as we can go about it how we want to and we can continue to do our thing.

1:38:52BubblemanThat is the most important thing. Once the mainstream is saying, no, we have to do it only this way. Thank you for watching.

1:39:15SpeakerYeah. That are doing it illegally in Colorado.

1:39:17BubblemanI'm not in Colorado myself. I'm in Canada and we're getting more wins than losses. But if I was in Colorado, I'd be like doing everything I could to stop that from happening.

1:39:27SpeakerThat's why I left Colorado. I was completely just disgusted by it because places like Lidwell thrive in that kind of market.

1:39:33ChloeIt's really difficult.

1:39:34SpeakerThey're an unethical business.

1:39:36ChloeSo it is. I mean, Daniel, you know, you've always been a client of mine. I think I set up your business. You know, and it's been really hard to navigate so many people who are so talented through this market because it hasn't been fair. And they allow people to set up all these patients and then, you know, they really kind of cut out the experts by saying, oh, you couldn't have felonies, you couldn't be out of state, residents, and there were only certain people who really lobbied that the experts didn't have their money to.

1:40:05ChloeAnd in a vertically integrated market where you're required to have, like, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:40:39ChloeThere are a lot of business people who don't really understand the industry either, and I think that both people really do need each other, you know, to try to, because these people are going to keep growing shitty weed unless somebody comes in and says, hey, let me teach you how to grow good weed, let's negotiate a real business deal. And if you can kind of speak the language of the person who has the intellectual property, like the expert, and actually merge them with somebody who, get them on the same page with the business person who would invest in them, you know, it could, It could be a really good thing.

1:41:10SpeakerThe only thing is that quantity and quality do not go hand in hand. And I think a lot of people that think they can just go big and turn out really, really great stuff are completely wrong. And they find that out. And when they have problems, they're not small problems. They're catastrophic problems. And in some ways, it's so financially devastating for them to correct them that they move to things that smaller growers would never dream of.

1:41:33SpeakerAnd when you're doing boutique grows and you're doing grows out of the love of gardening, you're going to put out a product that is really second to none. And I think that's something that's not going to change and it's not going to be corrected by big industry. That said, I really look forward to big industry coming in and actually having standardizations and putting out marginally good pot that is cheap and accessible to everybody because then more people will be able to turn from their morning Thank you for watching.

1:42:28SpeakerAlso too, Todd, the real truth of it is that quality and quantity are not opposites. It's just when you're producing quality, quality has to come first over quantity.

1:42:42BubblemanYeah, I was going to say, I'm sure you... Priority of the garden, right. I'm sure you, Sam, have produced some fairly quality herb and some fairly quantity.

1:42:52SpeakerCan't you have it both? I mean, I've seen high-yielding plants that yield incredible extract. You can have it both, can't you? But can we stop for a minute? No one is on this panel or has been allowed to operate on a Budweiser level yet or a Jack Daniels level yet where we've got a 1,700-acre facility and they're pumping out 119 Million bottles of JD a year. Nobody has had the opportunity to do this or they lock us up.

1:43:21SpeakerI got busted with a 4100 plant garden back in 97 and it was small in comparison to what my imagination was dreaming about at the time I got busted. We haven't had the opportunity to really go large scale and this is going to be a new thing you know. We're not talking a couple thousand cannabis kilos. We're talking consistently being able to put out what would be maybe millions of ounces of cannabis a year.

1:43:54ChloeI think that the weed got really shitty in Colorado once we legalized it. I'm not sure if it's just because of regulation or because of that split, but when you would go to Colorado, you wouldn't see When you were trying to produce quantity, you wouldn't see the quality right off the bat with the heavy regulations. It kind of stunted the product, which was disappointing, but I mean, I think that in the end, Snoop Dogg's management team went for the quantity because that was, in the end, the better business deal and the more money for somebody like that.

1:44:26SpeakerWell, I don't think Snoop Dogg is a good example of anyone that's other than commercially interested. He doesn't have a hands-on approach to pretty much any of his businesses other than his rapping. I mean, so the truth is they're just doing labeling, and that's whatever it is. I mean, if you go to Colorado and you know the people that are growing herb, That's what Dan's saying. They're going to the people that still grow good herb.

1:44:52SpeakerIt's just that those people aren't getting it to the clubs. The way Colorado was, that the clubs had to produce a certain amount of the cannabis they were selling, they were locked into becoming producers, which in California, fortunately for a place like Berkeley Patients Group, that's not the case. They can have, you know, people that have been growing, in some cases here in California, for two and three generations, bringing in stuff that was quality first over everything, knowing it was going to be heavily scrutinized by the buyer, tested by the lab, and then really bottom line tested by the people that line up to buy this stuff at the counter.

1:45:28SpeakerAnd this is, I think, a subtle difference between the way things go. So, we'll see what the future holds, but... I still think quantity and quality are not exactly going to go hand in hand on large scale cannabis growth for a lot of people. What do you have to say about that, Sam? That's because most people are not focusing more on quality. They're focused more on quantity.

1:45:52SpeakerAnd Ben, what you're saying is true for sure. And you know what? An example, Sam, would be like when you're watching these videos of weed wars or whatever it is, you've got people up there saying, we're going to get three pounds of light. They're not talking about we're going to get the best quality off each table. They're talking about profits. You're absolutely correct. I hate that. I've got no respect for that.

1:46:13SpeakerYep, well, they're in it for the money, and let's face it, I'd rather have it legal to do that and legal to do what we like than illegal to do either and or both. Bingo. Yeah, the people that are growing the good pot now in Colorado are criminals because they've been recriminalized with all the new regulations that they've put into effect. I don't think it really helps anybody except for the people that paid to lobby things to go their way.

1:46:43SpeakerIf you're in, you're rich now, but everybody else that really had skin in the game and been working their whole lives in this industry are pretty much shut out. You can still participate in the black market, which still goes on there, but all these people, all these growers didn't have to if there was an avenue for them to sell their excess grow to these dispensaries.

1:47:06BubblemanWell, I mean, that's the big problem up here, Dan. You know, we got federal licenses. We fought hard for it. Originally, of course, it started like everywhere else. It was initially terminally ill people that were allowed to use it, and that broke out from terminal to, you know, pretty harsh diseases like MS and Parkinson's. And then it got, it just expanded until eventually it was to, for arthritis and other sort of headaches and body pains.

1:47:31BubblemanUntil it was literally like you could get cannabis almost for anything that you really required to get it for. But it just wasn't like that in the beginning. It was really stuck on this pretty much very, very, very sick people were the only ones that were able to get it. We fought, we fought, we fought. We got these licenses. That was my train of thought.

1:47:51SpeakerAm I mistaken that it's just completely out of the question that Really high quality cannabis can't be produced at much larger scale? I mean, is there a break? No, no, Mark. Can I point something out? I truly believe that cannabis can be produced in large scale. If you have a person at the end, like you have a taste tester at JD who's actually Thank you for watching.

1:48:40SpeakerYou're not going to get quality. We were talking about Budweiser before, and I always think about the Pennsylvania brewery, Yangling, which is a family-owned brewery. I think it's the oldest continuous running brewery in the country, run by the same family that started the brewery way back when. And I think it really is like one of those family-run companies here in Pennsylvania that really takes care of their employees.

1:49:09SpeakerThey Really have very good benefits and they're very good in the community and they realize the impact that alcohol has and I think they're one of the alcohol companies maybe that's a little more responsible, not like Anheuser-Busch or these other big multinationals. But just to use that as a convenient analogy to say that Here's a company that makes a high-quality product. It's a family-run product. The people who love that product really, really love that product and will buy that product when given the choice of buying other products.

1:49:44SpeakerSo just think that, again, our industry is in its infancy, but that we can grow to the level where the consumer can make an educated choice in the marketplace to make a quality product versus quantity buying decision when they choose their cannabis

1:50:06HoratioWell, Mark, it still sounds like a boutique-level quality experience. When people are thinking quantity, I'm like, the only way to keep the quality is a labor force so large that you would pretty much have to be a cult to do it right. On Acres, there's so many other things like tea where you see women who are dressed to the tea because you can't actually dirty the fields or fuck up the tea plants.

1:50:31HoratioLike, there are other things that labor, like physical slave labor force is the key to quality. Otherwise, they can rip through a machine.

1:50:39SpeakerI know, but I don't mean to disagree with you completely, but it's a slave labor, this is not Apple making iPhones. Really, love is what we need, and we need an eye on the end product before they release it. And the problem is, is that when companies come in and invest all this money into a big 50,000 or 100,000 square foot grow, and something grows wrong, they're going to release that pot because they can't afford not to throw it away.

1:51:01SpeakerAnd what we've got to get is companies that actually won't release shit because their reputation is more valuable than their bottom line, if you will. And how many gallons of whiskey has probably been thrown away by some of the best whiskey distillers because it didn't make par and they didn't want to grenade their reputation? We just don't have that in cannabis right now. When people start worrying about their reputation and really trying to bring their quality up to the best of the best, like growers have done in the hills of Humboldt for generations now, then we'll start seeing really good grass.

1:51:34SpeakerBut it ain't going to be slaves. It ain't going to be workers in China. Although, wait until China can make grass and ship it out.

1:51:42HoratioIt's going to be an export-import economy in my opinion. We are slaves to our plants. The labor of love is servitude to the plant and that is what creates the quality.

1:51:53SpeakerIt's voluntary servitude. What's that? It's voluntary servitude, not involuntary servitude. Absolutely.

1:52:04HoratioWe have farms where you're driving to the airport and you're like, God, it's hot outside. How the fuck are those people picking berries? And you see the van that brought out all the foreign workers. And I'm like, you know, I still want those berries versus the ones that are gathered with the combine, and all those people are happy to be the fuck out of India picking berries in Canada.

1:52:22HoratioThere is a trade-off when it comes to scale. I'm not saying China, because they're not managed with love, but in a large-scale situation, if you can create a company that has that love, the reason why the reputation won't go down is because there's people on the ground ready to pick that leaf and go, there's PM, fuck this, we're not even going to... They're not going to get to that level.

1:52:41HoratioThat's what I mean by servitude is slavery because they're going to be on that plant. They're not going to let 150,000 pounds just go to shit and then put it out to market. They're going to catch that in week one veg because they care. Enough to pay people to catch it.

1:53:01BubblemanSorry about that. I was getting a message from Tony.

1:53:04SpeakerNo, Horatio, I totally vibe what you're saying. I just think that as someone who's grown for most of my life, I think that love is the key to success. You've got to have some pride in what you're putting out. Also, you've got to be willing to eat it if you fuck up. If you get bugs for whatever reason, you let your friends in your garden and they had bugs and they bring you bugs.

1:53:25SpeakerAnd suddenly you get bugs, you got to eat that. Or however that it happens. If something goes wrong, you eat it, you start over, and you put your best foot forward. It's just hard to do that in a 50 or 100,000 square foot, one or two or 300 light grow. You've got a problem on your hands.

1:53:41BubblemanDude, it's hard for people to do in a five-pound light grow, and you know it. Ninety percent of people do not do that. They put that butt on the market to the dispensary, wherever. That's why we're trying to create standards and regulations to keep that from happening. And the problem in Canada, of course, is that people, you know, the reason we had to fight for our license for three years isn't because our government are total dicks and wanted to take it away as much as...

1:54:03BubblemanThat people only got a license to grow medicine for themselves and instead what they chose to do was to grow lots of medicine, sell it for profit to patients and pay their mortgages and their car payments and go on trips with their families and basically use cannabis like they have for the last 20 or 30 years under the prohibition regime which is to produce all the profits in their life.

1:54:27BubblemanAnd so that's not what the license was for, and unfortunately, whereas I'm not against people using cannabis for profits, I actually support it in all forms, in as many accessible points as possible that we could access, but I don't really support it to undermine a license of a group of people that are just trying to grow their own medicine, not pay their market, as many accessible points as possible.

1:54:52BubblemanI don't really support it to undermine... Someone turn on their YouTube... Thank you for watching.

1:55:26HoratioWell, Mark, check it out. What do you think about our medical system? I remember when I heard about it from that strange neighbor that keeps the meat in the freezer to bring the bears in to protect his grow. And he's like, you got five grand, it gets you 100 plants. You got 10 grand, it gets you 200 plants. I'm like, are people buying licenses? It's like, yeah, just fall off your motorcycle.

1:55:45HoratioEvery criminal has mangled themselves living the high life and is entitled to this super license where... Like, it was very strange where I like went through my whole medical history and had to prove a bunch of stuff and they were, you know, the regular doctor's like, there you get six plants, knock yourself out. And then someone else walks out with, I've got three patients, they each have 200 plants each, I'm a 600 plant grower, I need an investment to build a huge facility I'm on.

1:56:10HoratioAnd now those are the people that in our own reverse corrupt way that now have enough money to buy the legitimacy and they become dispensaries and all these other faces.

1:56:21BubblemanThey also, you know, the worst part really is that they won't swallow a loss. That if something happens, if bugs or mildew, the standards and the regulations are nowhere near what our Canadian LPs are forced by the government because it's millions invested and they'll just pull that license in the blink of an eye. So they really have repercussions to have to follow the standards that are in place.

1:56:45BubblemanAnd although I find a lot of the standards completely absurd, Some of them are really great and obviously some SOPs could be created that would produce really wonderful protocols and be able to keep the cannabis and all through the processing, everything clean and secure and make a great product for people.

1:57:04SpeakerYeah, and that just requires investment because it requires instrumentation and highly trained scientists. And methods that we can really hang our hats on, that we really all agree on. And those methods are the same methods that everyone has to use. And again, Dan, this is the real frustrating thing is you go to take the same sample and send it to six different labs and get six different results.

1:57:30SpeakerIt's just how do you, as a hash maker, it must be really frustrating when You go through all of this trouble to grow and create the best possible product you possibly can to enter it into this cup to just have that sample fail based on one single result from one single laboratory. We've got to really be able to hang our hat on that result because that hash maker has invested so much time and passion into making that sample to just have that result.

1:58:05SpeakerI don't know if Jeff wants to speak to that, but that must really be frustrating to have one result be... The thing that just takes your sample out of competition. I don't know if anybody else has anything to share. You know, the worst time I've ever had with testing was with Oregon because I just think that their standards aren't really up to par yet because we had 28 entries and just about every single person pre-tested, you know, and passed at an Oregon lab, submitted to us, went to one in Washington, and 9 out of 28 failed because of mold.

1:58:40SpeakerAnd that was just crazy. I mean, like, I had people, like, really wanting to fight me because their stuff failed at one lab and passed at another. Well, just think how far we've come from when they first started testing in California when Steep Hill and some of the first labs opened, and half of everything they tested had pesticides on it. Or fungicides.

1:59:05ChloePeople passed in the whole state of Colorado. I mean, a lot of people, if you don't pass, you have state mandated batch testing. So every single batch of marijuana that you produce, you have to test. And there's strict guidelines on what we're testing for, what's allowed, and what pesticides you can use. And if they find something, then they have a recall, and they'll take all your product.

1:59:30ChloeI mean, people are saying that growers might have snuck into their warehouse in the middle of the night and sprayed pesticides without them knowing because they're so desperate to save their reputation. But in all reality, when you're growing on a mass scale like that and you fought with your expert grower who wanted $3,000 a pound and you're only paying him $50 an hour or $25 an hour and you have all this weed, they just didn't understand each other.

1:59:54ChloeAnd in a super regulated environment, you know, you couldn't get those relationships to work. And I'll tell you, a lot of them, I think, started using pesticides to keep their grows alive. And so all we've had is recall after recall, and they email it to every single person on the marijuana enforcement division's list. So it's pretty good motivation for them to pull it together and have some sort of quality control.

2:00:16SpeakerIf people are used in pesticides or fungicides, they deserve recalls.

2:00:22ChloeI agree.

2:00:25SpeakerYou know, one problem I don't really think has been brought to light in Colorado and other places where residual testing is becoming mandatory is it's residuals, it's a really easy test to fool because, you know, let's say you have some shatter, you know, you whip it up, no matter what, it's going to have no residuals at all and you submit that as your sample for a batch and it'll pass every single time and have really good numbers too.

2:00:51SpeakerYeah, I would say residual, it's a really tough game. You know, I've seen anywhere from, you know, 400, 300, 400 parts per million on one sample be reported from another lab at 3,000 parts per million, another lab reported at 10,000 parts per million on the same exact sample. And so really the deal is the labs don't really have Enough money to get the equipment that they really need or pay the employees that they really need to get good results.

2:01:24SpeakerEverybody in the industry wants to have the cheapest result that they can and that's really led us down this hole where we're only doing one test of something instead of doing a triplicate where it's three different dilutions of the same sample. We're only running a residual test One time, instead of doing the same exact thing. I mean, you know, everywhere in our industry this is happening. And, you know, I don't know what we can do other than pay for better testing and really come up with standards that are being shared among all the labs.

2:01:59SpeakerThat's the really big thing, you know.

2:02:04SpeakerIt's not only standards, Jeff. It's protocol. You know, they have to run their machineries the same way. And if they don't, they're going to get different results. Absolutely. And the machinery has to be audited on a periodic basis to make sure that it's working properly. And to be quite honest, you can't just take anybody off the street and just put a white coat on them and have them be the person who runs these samples.

2:02:34SpeakerBecause especially with microbial, there are so many opportunities to cross-contaminate samples Where the handling of the samples themselves is actually the source of the contamination. And how would you like to be the hash maker who made a perfectly clean hash but whose sample was mishandled and that's the source of the contamination. So I mean, you're absolutely right. The protocols, the handling, the way that these things are tested, again, is not trivial to do, say, in a timely fashion such that if you had The deadline to submit your hash for the cup was, say, like a week before the cup itself, and you had to have all those samples screened in such a rapid period of time.

2:03:22SpeakerI mean, that's a very, very large number of tests for any lab, let alone a cannabis lab that's already looking at screening samples for other customers. So this is the kind of thing that, again, unfortunately is going to require investment because The level of screening just needs to be taken to the higher level where not only we're working with the proper instrumentation, but the properly trained people who understand how to use the instrumentation to make reproducible results that we can really hang our hat on.

2:03:57SpeakerAnd I'm talking about the same kind of results that are used in the analysis of botanicals and pharmaceuticals and many different things that humans consume and use. The technology is out there. What stifles things is the whole Schedule 1 listing, which keeps the investment from happening in a way that can enable the development of this industry, which is already Up to speed in other areas other than in cannabis, and it just needs to happen in cannabis.

2:04:29SpeakerAnd Mark, there's no reason why a GC, HPLC, or NMR, whatever the hell they're using for analysis, can't give identical results, I mean, within the GC range of all the different ones. Yeah, no, no, no, absolutely. I think we're talking more about microbiological testing, which is a culture thing where you actually have to Culture of bacteria which takes time to see. At the recent Emerald Cup, there was even question whether the microbiological was actually toxic ones or dangerous ones or just possibly contaminants that were completely non-toxic.

2:05:11SpeakerYeah, you know, we need to start testing for mycotoxins in all of our extracts, you know what I mean? There's, you know, Todd made a great point, you're going to kill everything with butane extraction, but you're also going to extract mycotoxins into that extract that happens with CO2, happens with everything, you know what I mean? You're going to kill... The DNA companies like Phylos and Medical Genomics are working on DNA-based tests for these types of things.

2:05:41SpeakerIn the future, that will be the answer.

2:05:46ChloeWe do have a lot of state-mandated testing in place in our new regulations, and I can send those out to you, and we can maybe publish them. I'm not really quite sure how this works yet, but we do have how many residuals we can have in, and we're testing for a lot of things. But, you know, if you guys want to give me feedback, I'm sure I can get those into the right hands.

2:06:06ChloeAnd I think this is a really important issue because some states are saying that butane's bad. Some are saying maybe CO2 can expand in your lungs and we don't know the effects of that. Nobody knows the long-term effects of cannabis, which we just know it's safe. But, I mean, as we go from state to state, if it's important for us to have butane or things like that, then, You know, we really need to get the information out there of what's really going on, especially with supercritical fluids because, you know, they're heavily, I think the people that do CO2 are kind of lobbying against the people that do butane and, you know, it's not really stable in each state.

2:06:45BubblemanAnd the water hash people, we're just, you know, we're just like, hey, if your lab blows up, we have plenty of water for you.

2:06:51SpeakerNo, everybody knows that the dry sifters are the gold standard, dude. The gold standard.

2:06:56ChloeAnd you don't need an infused product manufacturing license to use water hash on a cultivation facility.

2:07:03SpeakerAnd you don't need anything of permissions for dry sift either because I don't sell it.

2:07:10BubblemanHey, wait a minute, though.

2:07:11SpeakerThe beauty about dry sift is it's just there for the taking. There's really no process at all. I mean, anything that falls off the plant can be taken and harvested, right? That's the easy part. Right. That's the 1%. Isn't there some operations that basically let a lot of that go without really grabbing the low-lying fruit there? I don't get it.

2:07:39BubblemanWell, more people would have it if that was the case. Most people, like whenever I lecture at any type of cannabis event, I always like to ask the people, you know, who has shatter or butane, and then lots of hands usually go up, and I'll ask who has full melt bubble, and Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:08:20SpeakerThe dollar amounts that we've heard these things sell... Not that that means anything. I don't want to attach value to that, but I thought that that's what we said a couple weeks ago.

2:08:29BubblemanI always called it the holy grail, personally, because every extraction process leaves a footprint in the chemical world, in the chemistry world, right? You can always find the footprint. If I use water, you're going to notice that water-soluble terpenes are missing and maybe other things. And if you use chemicals, there's always going to be some form or another of a footprint that you can That you can find, but with mechanical separation, all you're really doing is isolating.

2:08:54BubblemanHe's just isolating the gland heads in whole raw form from the rest of the cannabis plant matter. So I've always thought of it as the holy grail. I mean, to me, it's the thing that people have the least of. Even people who have mad quality in this industry, like all the time, still often never have full melt dry sift. And it's not because... They don't want it.

2:09:20BubblemanIt's because they don't have access to it. They don't have it. Most people don't have it still. And it's, everyone wants it. I mean, if you get some given to you, you are like smoking it till it's gone. You're not putting it aside and hitting like your other stash.

2:09:35SpeakerYeah, Dry Sip is definitely the holy grail, I would say, for sure, of cannabinoids. But, you know, if you're talking cannabis extract, it's definitely going to be the terpenes that have the most value.

2:09:46BubblemanWell, the terpenes... Hopefully Tony will get in here at one point. He said it's full, but he's ready to come in and visit sometime. He's had quite a morning. I think he was at like the Oscars yesterday, like where they give away schwag or whatever, like those schwag parties for Oscars. He's giving terpenes to Hollywood people.

2:10:11HoratioI saw that. I was like, is he giving away all our medical terpenes to these Hollywood people so they won't even know what to do with it? They'll just put it on and waste it.

2:10:20BubblemanHe got a pretty funny picture with Mini-Me from Austin Powers holding the terps. It was funny. I agree, Jeff. The terps are an extreme value for sure. We're only not even halfway there with these terpene profiles. And once we get into terpene fractions and we can actually, you know, grab a profile and then have that profile fractioned out, I think that's going to be a neat part.

2:10:49BubblemanI'm looking forward to that.

2:10:52HoratioI've got one last question for Big D. What do you feel made your competition so masculine, competitive, aggression, perfectionist, Like it's one of the things, like I remember listening to the Secret Cup song as like I picked my flowers, as I worked on my entry, as I purged it and looked at when to stop, as I packaged it, I'm playing the Secret Cup song. As I'm going to America, it's playing in my head.

2:11:18HoratioLike it's not like... Thank you for watching.

2:11:36HoratioThank you for watching.

2:12:03SpeakerWell, to be honest with you, man, it's because people are just allowed to participate more than compete. Usually you drop off your entry and you don't hear anything until the awards ceremony and that's it. With this one, you really do come under a lot of scrutiny. The competition itself is secret, but everything comes out. How you voted, who was good, who was bad, it all comes out at the end of it all.

2:12:29SpeakerIt's not really a secret. Some people just have no chill whatsoever and just can't really do anything about it, you know?

2:12:38BubblemanNo chill whatsoever.

2:12:40SpeakerNone.

2:12:40BubblemanThat's a great way to reply. What an accurate way. Hey, listen, basically Horatio, some people have no chill.

2:12:50SpeakerI like that. If you do it in that situation, it's a real win. People can't really call it into question. The Skittles winning this year, it's that good. His full melt is that good. It's fucking amazing. It's one of the best things I've ever tried in my life. Just about 99% of everyone else who's tried his stuff will agree. He's a clear winner. So, I don't know, when someone wins our competition, I want them to be like, you know, like, seriously, 30 people that actually wanted to win themselves, like, chose you as the top.

2:13:24SpeakerThat's amazing.

2:13:26BubblemanI was there in Barcelona, thanks to Todd inviting me to the museum, and I got to be there for Ford, and I didn't really, I have to admit, I didn't catch too much machoism or any of that sort of trolling aspect. Everyone was super stoked to be there. It was a pretty good vibe all around. We were just puffing and it was nice.

2:13:45SpeakerThat's how it is in real life. That's how it is when people are in front of each other. They're not as savage as they are when they're online. That's just how it is. People speak from some dark place in their souls when they go online. I don't understand it fully. But once you're hanging out with each other, everybody's really subtle. Yeah, absolutely.

2:14:03LorenzoWhen are you coming over, Big D?

2:14:07SpeakerI'm going to go to Amsterdam in August.

2:14:12EtienneWell, you're going to come to Spain in August as well.

2:14:18SpeakerYeah, please. I'm going to come to Spain too, dude. I want to be out there for like a month.

2:14:23LorenzoYeah, please come over. Yeah, it's time to come over.

2:14:28BubblemanIt's time.

2:14:32BubblemanThat's awesome.

2:14:34LorenzoNo, no, yeah, yeah. But something that's happened to the Secret Cup in Spain, it was something that amazed me. It was that the entry from Matt, Greg Gardner, the Barbara, was misunderstood from a lot of competitors. And they were thinking it was... I was saying, the entry from Matt, the Greg Gardner, was... From a lot of competitor was misunderstood and they were thinking it was amperage butane.

2:15:07BubblemanWow. What was it?

2:15:09LorenzoIt was Barbara. It was Barbara. Barbara what? Waterhush.

2:15:15BubblemanBarbara Waterhush.

2:15:17LorenzoYeah, a lot of people really misunderstood, because I really think here the knowledge is way lower than what you have. Before you were talking about tests and stuff, we have just one good test lab, and it's in Madrid. So if you want to invest some money, guys, just make a lab in Barcelona, because it's really needed. But there is no labs, there is no regulation. It's really, really like in the 93 in America.

2:15:52LorenzoSo we are years behind you guys. Years behind you.

2:15:59SpeakerYou know, one of the winners over there, Team 10 Extracts, was the only VHO entry to place in the top three at our last finals. That was pretty cool. I mean, somebody was like a British accent go up there.

2:16:10LorenzoThe guys are pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Karma Squad. Yeah, yeah, Karma Squad.

2:16:18BubblemanWhat was that, Karma?

2:16:22LorenzoIt was Team 10, but it was the Karma Squad because they were running something from Karma.

2:16:27BubblemanAh, okay, excellent. Yeah, right. Makes sense, makes sense. Well, we still got 1,100 people tuned in. Etienne just joined and took Tony's spot, so we do need one more person to make room here in the future. For Mr. T who's been waiting to get in here. And boom. What did we just have? Two drop out. That was quicker. Quicker than quick. Free. Message to these guys. There's a few other people.

2:16:58BubblemanThis is when he won't be around now. And we'll have kicked ATN out for no good reason. Sorry, ATN. Oh, and Darren left.

2:17:07BubblemanThose guys are quick. While they're watching, they can figure it out to come back in. Yeah, I think it's time for a little bong rep. It is 219 here in Kingston, Jamaica. Nice and warm. Just sitting by the pool.

2:17:30BubblemanHanging out by the house.

2:17:34LorenzoThat's not bad at all.

2:17:37BubblemanNo, I would love to say welcome back, Etienne. Thank you for coming back. Definitely for those that missed going to Amsterdam last year for the Cannabis Cup, definitely come check out the Jamaica Cup again because it is really quite something to be in this environment with that group of people for so many years that were in Amsterdam to now be in like a tropical environment. It's just almost too trippy.

2:18:04BubblemanLike it really is. It's neat to see my friends all sweating.

2:18:12LorenzoWelcome, Tony.

2:18:15BubblemanAh, yes. There he is. Mr. Tony. I hope your morning's going better for you, Tony.

2:18:23SpeakerUh, yeah, I had a rough morning. I had a rough morning.

2:18:31SpeakerPlug in your bong. Did you share, uh, Did you share my experience with anyone in the world of Ash Church or you just kept it to yourself?

2:18:40BubblemanOh, I kept that shit to myself, bro.

2:18:47LorenzoNow we're coding this stuff.

2:18:50SpeakerWell, you know, I'm staying in L.A. and I'm in a nice hotel and the hotel allows your dog to hang out with you in your restaurant or in their bar or whatever. And, um... And my dog ate like too much food and I guess partied too hard because this morning I woke up to diarrhea all over the place.

2:19:19BubblemanA Keith Moon. Your dog pulled a Keith Moon.

2:19:23SpeakerShe pulled a Keith Moon. Yeah, and then she pulled a Keith Moon on the way to the elevator and then she pulled a Keith Moon five feet away from the red carpet at the Oscars and then she pulled a Keith Moon all over herself. Dude, can I just throw something out there? What are you doing dating dogs? Why don't you bring girls to the red carpet at the Oscars?

2:19:45SpeakerI've never seen a girl wear a fucking dress at the fucking Oscars, bro. Trust me, there's an improvement that could happen here. I'm just going to throw this suggestion out there, though, okay? Leave the chihuahua at home.

2:20:01SpeakerWell, you know, I don't think she meant to do it. She was really embarrassed. She kept looking around, and the guy, he's setting up the whole carpet thing where people can go, and she, like, just left a puddle of poo. And there's the guys with walkie-talkies and securities, and then the guy's like, he's like, he's like, are you serious, bro? So I was like, and then Ola's just like, Like, she doesn't know what to do.

2:20:29SpeakerShe's super embarrassed. She shit all over herself. She shit on the sidewalk five feet from the red carpet. And I was like, yeah, I don't know, man. Maybe like a hose or like a glass of water. I was like, I don't know, maybe L.A. should get some grass since it's all concrete everywhere. You know, there's like no grass anywhere. I was like, I don't know what, I mean, you guys are dog friendly, but there's no grass.

2:20:54SpeakerI don't know. You just realized there's no grass in L.A.?

2:21:01HoratioIt's a terrible thing to realize in a crisis. Where's the grass for my dog?

2:21:05SpeakerIn L.A. for this long. That's why they need a red carpet. Right. They need a brown carpet when Tony visits, so it'll blend with his chihuahua droppings, bro.

2:21:21SpeakerIt's just like, and then there's like nothing here but like white, white towels, you know? So then I'm like completely fucked because the carpet's going to cost a lot of money.

2:21:34SpeakerYou can bring the boy out of the country, but you can't bring the country out of the boy. What do you mean I'm the only one with my toy dog here right now? She has one shitting in her purse right over there. You gotta bring a purse, Tony. That would do it. You stick the dog in the shit bag, let it do its thing, take it out, close it, put it by someone you don't like.

2:21:55SpeakerYeah, and the other thing is, I mean, as bad as it was, I had to tuck her tail and hold her so she couldn't walk because, like, it's all over herself. So then, like, she's, like, shaking, and then, like, some girl comes out of the elevator, and she's like, oh, that's a cute dog, and I'm like, not right now, you know, probably not right now. And so she needs a bath, and then she's like, oh, okay, okay, and she kind of didn't I had to like literally bathe the dog, bathe the carpet, use like different soaps around here, do a load of towels in the sink, and then the toilet clogged up.

2:22:36SpeakerIt was like... I was just like, oh my God. Talk about a shitty morning. You can't blame the chihuahua for the human blocking up the toilet. You've got to learn how to do micro flushes when you're cleaning up all that shit, bro. Come on, we've all been there, man. Jesus, that's Mark. He's had a kid, two, three now. There's a terping for that. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

2:23:00BubblemanYou should dump some terps on the carpet.

2:23:05SpeakerThere you go. Yeah. You know, I think I did a pretty damn good job. You know, I spent the, I spent 8 o'clock till now. That's a good two and a half hours of, well, I'm happy that I'm here though now. So I didn't think I was going to make hashtags because it got busy, the panel was busy, and I was like, you know, last Sunday I was in the middle of thought, and she kind of just was vindictive while I was talking on hashtags, do you remember?

2:23:34SpeakerIt was Sunday before. She just took a big load right in front of me. I was just like, and she's a really, really good dog. So, you know, I just, I don't know. It seems like Sunday she's been vindictive. She likes her mornings. We all want to know, did she get into them terpenes, hitting them a little hard, loosening her up? What's going down, Tony? You know, are you sharing your stats?

2:24:02SpeakerI've just learned to appreciate my dog a whole lot more after hearing that story. Dude, my dogs, I have three of them and it's not a shitty experience.

2:24:10LorenzoI'm really glad.

2:24:15SpeakerLet me tell you, at least she's a 10 pound dog. Todd's dogs, if Todd's dogs decided to do what my dog did, he would spend the entire week cleaning up after his dogs because his dogs are humongous. That would be next level shit for sure, bro. I don't even wish that on anybody. If you could ever train your dogs, like your dogs are big dogs, you'd be like, you know what, instead of sicking, like you know, have people sick their dogs on people like, go attack them.

2:24:47SpeakerIf your dogs would just get into a mode where they would just go shit on somebody's yard or go into their house and just like lay loads like that, they would be destroyed, man. Your dogs are like 150 pounds each and you've got like three of them. Dude, I would love to see a dog that can shit on command. Just snap your fingers, goes over to someone you don't like, plops one right in front of them, walks away.

2:25:07SpeakerNow that would be a really smart animal, you know? I wonder if that would become illegal in Amsterdam. At least the dog didn't eat your stash, man. You'd be following it around with a baggie. I looked after a friend of mine's pit bull for two weeks, and he told me, leave my toilet seat up at all times because he'll shit in the toilet. And I never believed him.

2:25:35SpeakerAnd I go in the bathroom one time, and it was just me and my girlfriend there, and there's a great big loaf in the toilet with no toilet paper, no ass wipe. Immediately, I thought, what a dirty bitch. She didn't even wipe her ass. That's terrible. And then I left the lid down on the seat, and I come home from work, and there's a great big coiler right on the seat.

2:26:00SpeakerThe dog would back himself up to the toilet and shit in the toilet. It was impressive. Wow. Yeah.

2:26:08BubblemanWell, as impressive as that is, I think I'm going to take the reins now and make sure we don't have another story that goes into this. We're going to talk about something. Well, why don't you, D420K, say what you came to say?

2:26:23SpeakerWell... I'd like to stop this whole church right now with a great big bong rip, with a Blue River Terp Dip, maybe a double dip of some Jack Frost. Let's go Jack Frost, and which one's next? Gorilla Glue. Gorilla Glue, all right.

2:26:49LorenzoWe need Terps.

2:26:51BubblemanLemon Kush. And Lemon Kush. Good call, Sam. Good call. All right. I got three. I got the Gorilla Glue, the Jack Frost, and the Lemon Kush. What are you guys doing? You're doing like the triple dip combo here? No, it's a bong rip, double dip, terp dip, triple dip. Oh, my God.

2:27:18SpeakerThis is how Canadians react when you give them terpenes, guys.

2:27:21BubblemanYep.

2:27:23SpeakerNo, this is how Dee reacts. Here we also do a quadruple dip. Nice. Nice, Sam. That's awesome.

2:27:35BubblemanAlways happy about that.

2:27:39SpeakerThat's the Jack Frost, now Gorilla Glue.

2:27:44SpeakerAnd I saved this other side for Lemon Kush.

2:27:49BubblemanAll right, so I'm going Gorilla Glue first. I dropped it. Then doing the Jack Frost.

2:27:58BubblemanAnd then going for the lemon.

2:28:00LorenzoYou guys are making me drooling, you know?

2:28:03BubblemanDon't drool. We'll be in Barcelona soon, Lorenzo, and we'll have a terpene party.

2:28:08SpeakerThe Terp Soap. Can't wait.

2:28:12BubblemanI'm not sure, Chloe, if you've had much experience or been exposed to the pure terpenes yet, but... It is quite a beautiful experience. It's quite different from sitting around and just dabbing and smoking with people, quite different from going to an event where the food is catered, is medicated. It's really more attuned to almost like a wine tasting without the drunkenness that people who drink wine eventually display and more of a really relaxed kind of nice, iry feeling.

2:28:41BubblemanIt almost turns off the burnout phase of THC and just makes everything iry. So, bong rip, triple dip, double dip, whatever. Let's do it. Bong rip!

2:28:56ChloeGo.

2:29:01ChloeI did have the pleasure at the Emerald Cup of being introduced to the Terps. And I could smell them as soon as I walked in the place. It was insane how they are. It's disgusting. We have so many things to find out about these different strains and what we can pull off of them, but at this point, we're not even growing wheat, we're growing resin. And that, I mean, it's a whole new level, and I'm fascinated by it.

2:29:29BubblemanYeah, that is exactly what we're doing. We are definitely growing resin. Whenever someone asks me, what's the yield like, and I'm like, I'll say something like, ah, you know, you can get a, just like 23, 24 grams off of a pound of And they're just like, what are you talking about? It's like, oh, I thought you asked me about the yield. Of course, they're asking about the vegetative yield, but I don't really care about vegetative yield.

2:29:50BubblemanI only really care about what the glandular weight is.

2:29:52SpeakerI've been sifting a lot today myself. Some nice OG that's been cured up for a year before I started breaking it down. And it's nice fire. I gave a little bit out yesterday and You know, just, it's beautifully melty and all that kind of stuff. It boils, it turns to liquid.

2:30:19BubblemanBeautiful. I'll do a melt video when I get back.

2:30:21SpeakerYes. I'll start for you. What's that, Tony? I'm at the church, and there's some pretty good conversation going on, and I just wanted to jump in and do the bong rep call and the turp dips and all that sort of stuff. I am signing out and letting someone else jump in. Have a good day, world. Peace and hash.

2:30:45BubblemanThanks, D. Have a great day, man. See you when we get back. Or I'll see you in Spain, maybe. Are you going to come to Spain?

2:30:50SpeakerI'm still juggling it.

2:30:52BubblemanWe'll see. Make it happen. Barcelona. I'll see you in Barcelona. Peace, everyone.

2:30:59SpeakerBarcelona. Barcelona. Barcelona. My morning just got shittier because I have everything in my hotel room except the D-Nail box. Oh, my God.

2:31:17SpeakerSo, for those that can't take perp dips, I'm joining you. I can't take an ash dip, I can't get a cup of coffee, I can't get my morning going. And you have shit under your fingernails. I can't do anything.

2:31:30HoratioI might just... Don't go sublingual if you've got shit under your fingernails.

2:31:36SpeakerWell, I do want to tell you something, Horatio. I did... I did give you some love yesterday at this little academy party because I had some candles and some terp dabs and different things and I did, there was about four or five people that actually tried the terps in their champagne. So I was like, and there was a couple people from Canada that were there and I was like, yeah, my buddy Horatio in Canada came up with a, The new, new, the Terp Champagne.

2:32:10SpeakerSo I put like a drop in their champagne. I really liked it.

2:32:14BubblemanOh, you were actually dropping their champagne?

2:32:16SpeakerYeah, I was putting Terps in their champagne.

2:32:20HoratioDid it modulate their booze? Like, did the alcohol high go through the roof?

2:32:26SpeakerThey all had this like kind of uplifting experience. They were like, oh. You know, because it was like, here's what happened. Some people you like, I had a lot of different... What they do is there's a lot of different actors that would come through. They announce them. They have their sister or their little brother or someone very young following them around with their sign and their accolades so you can kind of know who they were.

2:32:54SpeakerAnd some of them were like Nickelodeon actors too. So a lot of kids were kind of coming up to me with their parents. And so it was pretty interesting. They're like, oh, what's that smell? Because I could smell the lemon-cush candle. Oh, my God. Yeah, so then I was like, well, so I had to go all science on them and nerdy for a minute. And I was like, well, you know, this is like essential oils like in lavender or eucalyptus or anything, but they're done from cannabis grown in California.

2:33:35SpeakerYeah. You know, and they're produced in a medical facility. And they're basically just like flavors and, you know, and aromas and things like that. PPV is meant for all kinds of different medicinal purposes in medicine and things like that. And these young kids, man, I'm telling you, they're like super advanced. They're like eight. And they're like, oh, yeah, so it doesn't have any THC or CBD. And I'm like, what?

2:34:05SpeakerThey're just like, so is that how this is possible? There's just no THC in it? Can I try it? And I'm like, well...

2:34:14HoratioThey already knew. They were like, I can try this shit. I just have to fucking state it.

2:34:19SpeakerYeah, you know? And then they were more concerned. Like, if they wanted to try it, they didn't want any pictures of it, you know? Because they had their Disney reputation or whatever. But, um... But it was funny because there was a lot of sideways looks because they saw the mothership and that was like the thing that brought people over like, what's going on over here? I noticed you had the ship out.

2:34:42SpeakerWhat was that about? Were you taking rips? Yes. Yes. Yes. So people were coming up, they're like… Is that what I think it is? Now, I would say 99% of everyone has never seen a mothership and a denail at this particular event. The people that work the photography and the staff, they all knew exactly what it was. And they're like, dude, how are you dabbing people out?

2:35:13SpeakerAnd I was like, well, I'm not really dabbing people out. I'm not like You know, coming in here with like full melt and dabbing people out, they wouldn't allow that. I would have. And, well, it's a fine line, you know. I'm a line stepper. This was definitely a line stepper. I'm a habitual line stepper. They would come over and the candle was a nice little introduction because it was soft and easy.

2:35:42SpeakerAnd I'll tell you, the actors that I didn't think were into cannabis... We're really into cannabis, and the ones that I thought for sure were going to be into it were just like, no way. Let me guess, they were all white, right? No, there was a mixture of all kinds of ethnicity, to be honest with you. Only the ones that were white were up for awards, right?

2:36:11SpeakerUm, you know... Bad joke, sorry. No, Hollywood's really diverse, it's just they only nominate the white ones. Well, I will tell you this, that a lot of people don't know that Straight Outta Compton is nominated for screenplay, but it's kind of weird that the screenplay would be nominated but not the director or anyone in the movie. I did tiptoe around some of those things. I was just kind of asking, you know, not...

2:36:36SpeakerThe screenplay was written by a white guy. Oh, was it? Yes.

2:36:44SpeakerNo, I would not say that for a second. Ice Cube wrote Friday.

2:36:48MrLook it up.

2:36:49SpeakerLook it up.

2:36:50MrWe've been working on movies for a long time. Look it up.

2:36:55SpeakerYou know, I think what it comes down to is that it's a very, like the Oscars are very old school.

2:37:04SpeakerThey're just old or old school, you know. I don't really have a comment on all that. But definitely the people that came through were not just white people. It was definitely a mixture of both. And it didn't matter the color of the skin, the age, or the size of the person. You're either a pro-cannabis person or you are just completely avoided 100%. I would say that a good 80% was pro-cannabis in general.

2:37:40SpeakerThe ones that would stay away from it were like they came in with their family, their kids, didn't want any part of it, they didn't want to be anywhere near it, they didn't want to smell it. And then I would say, you know, that was a good, I'd say 15%. And then there was another 10% that was

2:38:06SpeakerMaybe not into it, but they certainly knew someone or had someone close to them that would appreciate it. So they took like a candle or they took some terpenes and they were like totally into it, but it wasn't necessarily their thing. Then you had some people that were like, man, I'm pro-cannabis, but I've got a family now and I don't want to have it around my house, but I really like the smell of this candle.

2:38:29SpeakerCan I have this candle? And for them it was kind of like, you know, Having some kind of connection back to the plant, so it was kind of cool, like novelty that way. But then there was the ones that just really surprised me, that were just like, oh, you're my people. This is what I'm talking about. They were just totally into it. But yeah, it was just very interesting to get the sideways look about the...

2:38:57SpeakerThe mothership. And then they said, well, what is this? What's going on? One guy asked me if I was giving that away, this one actor. And I was like, no, I'm not giving away motherships. And he's like, I've just never seen anything like this. Can I get this? And I'm like, yeah, it's like $4,000 or $5,000 for this whole setup. I mean, you could get one. Here's how you get one.

2:39:23SpeakerDid you have your egg? Yeah, I had the fab egg. Yeah. So it was cool enough to where they didn't know what it was. And then I just said, look, you know, this is a vaporization unit just like they have in other things. It's just a very elaborate one. And the people that were very skeptical in the beginning, once they actually smelled it, they smelled the candle, and then they actually tried it.

2:39:47SpeakerAnd, you know, I had pure turp dabs. And literally every single person that tried it was like, Their whole face lit up. You know, they went around and got other people and came back and a bunch of different people were cool and then, you know, you're not allowed to like really get them to take pictures unless they're like down or their Instagram or something unless they're down with what product they're on.

2:40:13SpeakerSo we were pretty good and a lot of pictures will come out next week but the, um, You know, it was a pretty fun experience to see. Hey, Tony, was there paparazzi there at the time? No, this is like a super high-end ballroom complex, and it was like list only, and what they did was they had lots of cool products, lots of cool other vendors, a lot of really cool things that were high-end, organic teas from Australia, New Zealand, and England, and There was like taffy, like saltwater taffy from Florida.

2:40:52SpeakerThere was like beard oil companies, you know. A bunch of cool different vendors and products, and then they just kind of announced them one by one and allowed them to kind of mingle.

2:41:10SpeakerThere was no paparazzi. There was no... Outside media, every photographer was in-house, and then you kind of had to pay for your own photographer. So it was pretty controlled, but it was also real open and friendly. You know, you had a bunch of different families. You know, a lot of actors or actresses would come with their family, and that was interesting. You know, so it was more...

2:41:39SpeakerKind of a personal thing, so it was kind of cool. But, you know, the ones that just didn't even want to, like, look at you. Like, there was probably 10% of those that were just like, you're not going to look at you. Like, not even give you a second. Like, they smelled the lemon cushion, it was like... You know, like... Like... I asked because I thought it would be funny if, like, all of a sudden it shows up on TMZ...

2:42:09SpeakerYou know, some famous celebrity, you know, hunched over, pulling on a mothership. That'd be a funny video to see. Well, you know, and the other thing was, there was, like, our photographer was kind of snapping pictures of them hitting the mothership, and I asked him not to because they were, you could tell they were uncomfortable because, like, look, it looks like you're hitting a bong.

2:42:30BubblemanYou are hitting a bong.

2:42:32SpeakerYou are hitting a bong.

2:42:33BubblemanYeah.

2:42:34SpeakerIt looks like you're hitting a bong, and therefore you are hitting a bong. And I said, look, you know, that's not really my deal. I'm not trying to get people to take bong rips and blast them. You know, so all of my...

2:42:48EtienneThis is not the bong hits you're looking for. These are not the bong hits.

2:42:53SpeakerYeah, no. It was more like, you know, it was their introduction, try it out, and then they took a picture with our backing up. You know, like I was like, yeah, I'll just take a picture real quick. You know, it's cool things. There was music producers, and it was just different groups of different things. There was rappers that came through. There was musicians. There was actors. It was just different eclectic groups of people.

2:43:22SpeakerI do have one to show you, though, Bubba, man. I need to find my phone.

2:43:28BubblemanAnyone want to have a dab with me?

2:43:30SpeakerI wish. I wish I was in Jamaica having a dab with you right now. Look at that stuff. Is that live resin? This is rosin.

2:43:44SpeakerYeah, so Tony, we were talking before like about Snoop Dogg and, you know, other sort of branding plays in the cannabis industry and, you know, you've seen this. You've had a front row ticket. I mean, what's your opinion of like where things are In terms of branding and like how important ultimately that is, I mean I think like where Todd was going is like once legislation happens and I can cultivate my own cannabis, I don't really care what Snoop Dogg does or I don't care what other Willie Nelson or Bob Marley branded cannabis, but ultimately I mean again if you're positioning to be successful in the commercial How important is it to be associated with like Snoop or to have somebody, some association like that?

2:44:39SpeakerHow much does that really mean? You know, I don't know. I guess you'd have to look at like what Live Well, what their numbers or what that What, how that influences their business when they have somebody like Snoop. Snoop's a pretty, Snoop's different than other type of celebrities because he's been pro-cannabis for so long. And, you know, he's got his own like brand of products and things like that that he's trying to push.

2:45:08SpeakerSo I don't know what the impact of that is, say, on his own brands and how that looks on a business level. I personally don't like I'm not like trying to go out there and get celebrities or things like that to endorse products. I think that if, I would say that, I would say that if a lot of the conversations that we had went from terpenes into prana, I would say 80% of them went into what we could use, like a lot of them were very smart and asked if Like the modulation effects and they went right into like capsules, sublinguals, you know, topicals and what we could do medicinally.

2:45:46SpeakerThere was some PhD writer there for autism. So I think what it is is first opening the door, getting the awareness, getting them to understand that there's great medicinal value to it. There's also social acceptance. Breaking down that barrier because it should be legalized across the country and people should have that choice. And then, you know, from there, if somebody was an advocate, there was a couple actors, you know, that went through cancer and things like that that was very pro-cannabis.

2:46:21SpeakerAnd I think that when somebody gets on the bandwagon of cannabis for the right reasons, Then I feel that there's significant impact because then it's a profound effect on their lives or somebody their lives knew. I'm very on the medical side, but like having, you know, rappers or celebrities that are into their own brand and branding their own products, I'm sure it's going to be good. I'm sure that they're going to sell a lot of products.

2:46:53SpeakerI just don't know. I don't think like, I don't know like how, Our current community responds to that versus the future community. The future community may be a lot of recreational people. They might just gravitate towards these brands. Dr. Dre has headphones. Snoop Dogg has his own cannabis products. If everything was legalized, then I think you would probably see a lot of those brands do pretty good.

2:47:21EtienneBut that's just commercialism. I mean, we've been providing. In the end, it's all about the product. If it's either a good product at a good price, end of story. It doesn't matter what's the name of the branding behind it. So the challenge to the Marley Naturals and then the Toshes and the others is to, as you have learned yourself, it's about putting out consistent, good product. And the problem that we have seen or the fear of, I think, the commercialization is the homogenization of That people have seen of other products and the fear that we have seen initially out of Colorado, as you saw yourself firsthand, that kind of homogenization of nothing really standing out, everything is just kind of equal.

2:48:00EtienneSo it's also the challenge to people taking on these labels or these names. They had to be very selective because if they put out one or two batches of products, like you're seeing, they had four recalls. Just last week in Colorado, it can ruin your name very quickly. So it's a double-edged sword when people start to say, hey, I'm just going to put my name on something.

2:48:26EtienneIt takes, as you know, it takes years of research before you can actually launch something. And people will do damage to themselves by just putting their name associated with anything. We've seen that association with kind of on some levels, but It's going to be no different, but I think we can all agree cannabis has been around for thousands of years, and it's just going to be a good product in the end that's going to sell.

2:48:50EtienneSo the commercialization of Babylon in America is all about association and association. Any actor, singer, et cetera can associate with you name it nowadays, whereas 20, 30 years ago that wasn't really considered. And I remember Bill Hicks. You know, as a comedian railing against that type of commercialism, you know, do what you do. You don't necessarily have your name. And then now we're dealing with people who are dead and their name associated with cannabis as well.

2:49:23EtienneAnd then family names, et cetera. So the challenge, as stated before, is for them to realize that they have to put up to what our community wants and expects. And if they don't, They're going to be out of the market very quickly.

2:49:37BubblemanWell, I think you're wrong because I think the community that you speak of is going to grow and it's going to get bigger than what you know it as. As we get into the mainstream, it's going to be made up of a bunch of people that don't actually see things exactly the way we as the core community do see things now. It's why I actually, after almost 20 years, entered the marketplace and wanted my brand to be a part of things because I'm not famous.

2:49:59BubblemanI'm not Snoop Dogg. I don't rap. I don't do any of these things. So I have no name to use like that. But what I am known for is producing incredible quality hash. And I've been teaching people to do that for near 20 years. And I've been good enough at it that they've been able to produce beautiful, beautiful hash. And that's what my brand represents. It doesn't represent that I'm a famous rapper or Or that, you know, I sung country music for 40 years and toured the world and everyone knows that I smoke herb.

2:50:29EtienneOr even that I'm like a famous Brazilian reggae artist. It's a solid product that stood the test of time that you yourself put your name on that you improved. And not only your bags today are no near what they were initially. You constantly improved and you constantly made it better to separate yourself. And that's what these are. I don't disagree in time. I think in the short term is what I was discussing until that transition to that larger market where it is fully across the board.

2:50:57BubblemanI think you've got guys like Wu-Tang Clan, Ghostface Killah selling the Wu-Goo. I haven't seen it, but even from the commercial, it just doesn't seem like what they went with was quality. It seemed more like I'm a rapper. I've been smoking joints for 30 plus years. Of course I can sell CBD oil in a pen. And so it's like, I don't think that because, like for me, that would kill my brand, but it will only build his brand.

2:51:22BubblemanHe'll just end up selling millions of dollars of that stuff, I can guarantee it. So, it's because... What's that, Tony?

2:51:30SpeakerYeah, I think you're both, you know, I think you're both right. That's what I was saying, the market today, for me personally, I'm not trying to take on a rapper for a brand, I'm taking on Bubble Man, you know, and I talked to him and Dude, I'm like super meticulous in certain things and I don't want to release something unless it's like of the best quality.

2:51:53BubblemanTo the point where I've never met anyone like you who's that much like myself. And in fact, that's the only reason, one of the main reasons why no one has ever represented my brand before because I haven't been able to be there and I didn't know you prior. So it's, you know, it's, that's how I know that you have the same OCD that I have.

2:52:15SpeakerIt's bad.

2:52:16BubblemanIt's bad.

2:52:21SpeakerI realize how bad it is because I want to be able to put out a product that is my head stash. Your brand is what I would consider my head stash. When people are like, oh, what do you have behind the curtain? Nothing. I'm giving you what is the best possible product. Now, I think that's where what Etienne was saying is correct where You know, people are trying to get in the market, they're trying to get their space, they're trying to get their brand out there, and quality might not be their first thing on their mind.

2:52:52SpeakerYou know, I think that, and I'm not trying to knock on Snoop or Wiz or anybody else that's out there that's trying to do it, but I just think that, like, we're talking about very hardcore resin heads that are obsessed with With the plant versus people that are like, okay, how do I get into the biggest market? How do I get my brand out there? Exactly. And a lot of these corporations, like when you're talking about people that have brands, they're corporations and they have big money behind them and they have agencies and they have all this different stuff and they say, okay, well, if it's this superstar, you know, this superstar, like Bob Marley, he needs to have X, Y, Z market share.

2:53:35SpeakerAnd so for them, they're looking at it from a business side. And, you know, they're looking at a volume thing and how to get market share across X, Y, and Z states. And for someone coming from the inside of the industry, we're not looking at volume. We're looking at quality and then that's it, you know. So ultimately, I do think, though, that would hurt them in the long run.

2:53:55SpeakerLike Etienne was saying, like if you just put your brand out there and you put your product out there or you partner with a place that you think is going to represent you well and they don't represent you well, well, shit. You're going to have egg all over your face. And then all of a sudden, you had your one chance in our industry to make it, and you failed.

2:54:16SpeakerYou don't get a second chance. So cannabis users are very snobby in that way. It's like, oh, I went out and I got Leonardo DiCaprio's LHO, right? And then it's the worst LHO on the planet. And then somebody's like, oh, this is horrible. What happened? Well, Horatio didn't clean it, he didn't run it, and you've got poison. And so these things will happen. And when they do happen, their little glip is done.

2:54:50SpeakerThey won't survive. Tony, don't you think in the future most people are going to be just going to the 7-Eleven and buying their cannabis, their beer, their ice cream, and their chips?

2:55:04HoratioThat's where the Snoop Dogg cannabis will be one day.

2:55:08SpeakerThey have that now. In Colorado, I mean, Chloe knows this, they have, the only thing they did was, I think it was Native Roots, they have a sign that says gas and grass. Literally, it says gas and grass. And they said, well, we've got so many foreigners coming here, you can't use the green sign, the little green plus sign. They have green plus native roots and this is gas and grass.

2:55:35SpeakerAnd so for those that come from like Europe, they see the green plus and it's true. Pharmacies across Spain and different places in Europe, that's a real thing. I can't wait until that opens up in Vegas and it becomes gas, grass, and ass. They have like a little hooker shack next door, right? Did you just say hash for ass? What did you just say? No, gas, grass, and ass.

2:56:03BubblemanYou remember, Tony, the old bumper sticker, gas, grass, or ass, nobody rides for free.

2:56:08EtienneNo one rides for free.

2:56:10BubblemanYeah, I use it all the time. I use it all the time. I always made sure I had grass.

2:56:21SpeakerBut yeah, no, it's definitely happening, and it doesn't mean the quality is necessarily bad. I I mean, you know, they're doing it. So, you know, I... I was talking about that family brewery in Pennsylvania, Yingling. I could buy Yingling in Walmart. It's the same Yingling from the same brewery, family-run brewery. It's a great beer. Everyone loves it that comes to Pennsylvania. Great beer. You could buy it in Walmart.

2:56:49SpeakerWhat's wrong with that?

2:56:51ChloeMaybe we'll have like 32 weeks. And then that's what will be available in the Snoop Dogg brand or something, and then it will level out, and there'll be better weed. But think about it for a minute.

2:57:03BubblemanThe market's going to expand. It's not going to be just what we see it as. There's going to be a real mainstream market, and it'll be maybe more unrecognizable to what we think, you know, as people who have been using cannabis for a long, long time. I think that there'll be levels of it, and the mainstream... We'll be not what most of us would choose. Right. Costco bulk.

2:57:26BubblemanYeah. Yeah, we're still going to go to Whole Foods.

2:57:31ChloeYeah.

2:57:34BubblemanI'd buy some dank herb at Whole Foods.

2:57:37ChloeDo you guys think that they actually decided to do gas and grass, or do you think that maybe that was the only facility available within 1,000 feet of any daycare, playground, park? You know, things like that. And so it kind of worked out because you have to split the licenses in the building and you couldn't sell the gas in the same place as the weed so they have to have two separate entrances.

2:57:59EtienneIt's brilliant from a marketing standpoint. Come on, you can't deny it. I mean, because of the sticker and it goes generations back into the 60s. Ask for acid gas, no one rides for free. So by actually having a gas station to get your weed at, it's an actually, it's a win-win for the individual consumer, okay? The consumer can go to two places at once and get what

2:58:43SpeakerI've never been in it, but I know the company's fairly reputable. Wouldn't you say, Chloe?

2:58:48ChloeOh, no, they're definitely reputable. I love Brett and the whole team and Josh. They're great, great guys. But, I mean, just knowing them, I don't think that Bass and Grass, like they went looking for a gas station. I think that they actually did the marketing that made the best of the location they had.

2:59:07SpeakerOf course. They basically fell into their lap by... By coincidence of what happened, and then when I saw that, yeah, of course, ATN's right. It is, like, listen, I'm going to pull over, I'm going to get some gas, I'm going to walk in, I'm going to get a soda or a drink, I'm going to get some snacks, and I'm like, you know what? I need a joint, or I need to go get some concentrates, or I need to go get whatever, and you just walk in the other door.

2:59:33SpeakerIt's pretty fucking genius. And anyone who doesn't think so is pretty jealous, you know? I do.

2:59:41EtienneTrust me, I wish I could do a drive-thru and all that stuff. We tried way back in the day, and the city of Berkeley is like, yeah, we have a thing against drive-thrus, so we couldn't allow it anyway. They're already drive-thru laws. But I hear there's finally going to be a drive-through as well coming through there in Colorado.

2:59:57SpeakerAnd you remember in Colorado, so they pass recreational regulation. We're not talking medical. We're talking it's recreational there. So this is the first experiment. Colorado was the first. You've got other states behind it. But when we talk about it, that's the market that's going to open up where it's, you know, I think that's where I was kind of like a little bit deterred in Colorado because the medical side and the patient care side, you know, people saw the numbers, the states saw the numbers, the states making more tax money than with alcohol in their first year.

3:00:36SpeakerIt's a pretty triumphant type of thing. And you can't blame the market for progressing towards more towards recreational than towards Then towards patient care. So I feel, you know, California in that respect is still really locked hard into patient wellness and patient care. I mean, what you're doing and what everyone's doing in California, that's where my heart is right now. And I really hope that California also recognizes that.

3:01:07SpeakerIf you pass some regulation stuff, I've seen some of the diagrams and how that looks and You know, I just really hope that, and I really think California is built that way, between the caregivers and the growers and everything. It's a different community, a much different community than in Colorado. I just hope that other states learn from that and they don't just push patients to the side.

3:01:32EtienneYeah, the fear with the new laws is that I give away free cannabis to low-income patients. And I'm going to lose that. I can't give away cannabis in the new economy. It has to actually be dealt with. So I've got my city now has to challenge my state because I know that certain people with medical conditions can't afford it. But with these new regs, that challenges that.

3:01:55EtienneSo now I have to work behind the scenes again to try and fix this for my low-income patients who can't afford cannabis. You know, cannabis. And these people have actually met with, actually have social workers guidelines for actually proving that they are low income. And these people have made it. And now, due to, you know, these new regulations, they're now, inability, I have to now charge them and they have to charge, you know, the regular price.

3:02:21EtienneI can't give away to them for free anymore. And that's a frustration. And so, you know, this is also part of the realities of Coming from this very, very opaque law here in California to actually more firmer regulations. And hopefully my city, which actually has written it in that we have to give away 2% to Berkeleyites who meet low-income standards, which we do, will that become illegal as well?

3:02:51EtienneSo these are things we have to explore in this new era of regulations that are coming on by 2018. Yeah, I think...

3:02:58SpeakerYeah, I agree.

3:02:59EtienneI agree. Just to go back to what Sam was saying, Sam, yes, it will eventually, not in my lifetime, but in the future, yes, you will be able to go to your local liquor store, get your cigarettes, your pot, and everything else, because if you're already seeing it at one gas station in Colorado, it's only a matter of time before it's standardized and large enough and commercially available and viable enough with lot numbers and ISO 9000 plus standards, and it's actually in stores.

3:03:24EtienneI mean... The race is on for that right now, and that's the reality.

3:03:29HoratioSorry, I just had one question. ATN, with your issue with not being able to potentially give away pot, I know this is utopian, but is there not something in Marcel's token system in which you could buy back and credit their tokens? So that it would have an equal value without cheating the system?

3:03:49EtienneWe'll figure out a creative solution, whatever it has to be, but I mean I have to do it within the bounds of the law. I'm a licensed business, so I have to follow realities. My time now is I have until 2018 until actualization of everything across the board. So we're trying to reach the right people in the right industries to say, hey, we still want to be able to To do this and they're running it up their chain right now to see if that's even possible because it's not really done where somebody's like, hi, I'm a low income person.

3:04:22EtienneI need my discount beer. Can I get my discount beer here? There are things for pharmacies, et cetera, but they still don't equate us with pharmacies. Yes, you can get discounts from pharmaceutical companies for your specific medication, but is that the route that I have to go now that I now have to now print vouchers and have to have that And go that route. This is what we're still exploring.

3:04:45EtienneThis is a very fluid motion. This is a very fluid action. And why we always have to stay vigilant, stay on top of things, and even study your own laws and figure out where it affects your reality. Because we are dealing with a very unique situation. I've transitioned from I'm 16 going on 17 years in business. Thank you for joining us today.

3:05:34EtienneBecause it's got to go somewhere, and that's the reality. So these are things we're finding, again, very fluid, and all I want to do is help people. Look, I've been homeless. I was kicked out of the Army for a positive year analysis, lost all my benefits and everything. I know what it's like to have absolutely fucking nothing. So I can't throw people out on the street and not give them access if they have and can't afford it.

3:05:59EtienneAnd I will fight for that. So that's, again, after this battle, and I'm still suing the government, I have another battle to fight just for my low-income people because the legislature doesn't see low-income people. They just see dollars and cents and what's coming in in the future. And so we still have to be humans and realize that we still take care of humans. As you say, medical is still our focus here, so we can't forget about that.

3:06:23EtienneThe legislature has, so we have to make them aware. And that's what I'm trying to do now. So hopefully we'll spread more awareness.

3:06:31SpeakerI think even in Colorado you could sell an eighth for a dollar to a low-income patient or have veterans discounts or have disability discounts still.

3:06:40ChloeYeah, you can. But, I mean, it's really hard for retail shops to offer those type of discounts. You know, in Colorado it's convoluted. I mean, you have virtually separated Dual licensed facilities. So they're allowed to be non-vertically integrated, which means they're allowed to have a cultivation facility, a dispensary, an infused product manufacturer license. And there's limitations on infused product manufacturing license on like plant counts and things like that and cultivation facilities.

3:07:10ChloeSo a grower like you would have to go out and get a warehouse or something that would be zoned properly, approved locally, and then wait. A lot of time to get those billed outs and all of those things approved through the local government until the state government enacts some sort of a system and figures it out. And unfortunately, as they do, it's going to get ran through legislation and different agencies like the Department of Ag and Pesticides.

3:07:37ChloeDifferent departments will decide if they want to touch it due to the federal status or if they want to stay away. But as California starts blowing up and money starts going everywhere in cannabis, I mean, it's really going to force the person that's underground to say, okay, I have to at least have a licensed facility. And then, I mean, I've already noticed there that it's hard for people to sell wholesale to dispensaries and stuff.

3:08:00ChloeThat's why the underground market works. And then find some sort of level between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana law, which are two very different things. So, I mean, you know, patients, for instance, need edibles, but they're banning them in recreational markets and giving them limitations. Because they don't understand the difference in these, they don't understand the difference between the two laws. And I think it's important that we have medical and keep it medical.

3:08:26ChloeYou know, as an AIDS patient or somebody, they may need like a 100 milligram bar. You know, they're not going to want to eat 100 milligrams. I want to see what I can do.

3:08:35SpeakerMedicine, in a sense, when it comes to becoming truly accepted in doctors' offices and pharmacies and like something they would give me in the hospital, like if I'm on chemo laying in a hospital bed and she comes in with, you know, many milligram patches that I can put on to contradict or, you know, counteract my nausea, I think this is where we're going to see medical cannabis changing quite a bit.

3:08:58SpeakerI mean, and right now it's forcing us all to be medical because we're You know, whatever. We're all sick of prohibition, so we're all sick. You know, and we're all sick of not having freedom, and it's affecting all of these other areas of our life. It's like chronic pain. Prohibition's like chronic pain. It may be possible to live with the chronic pain, but it makes you sleepless, lack of appetite, ruins your day, can't focus, and in truth, sleep prohibition's doing all that to all of us.

3:09:24SpeakerAnd once that goes away, I think we will see people that are severely sick getting really high quality treatment Making sure there's no contaminants. What they will call medical cannabis will be so sterile in our eyes but so consistent. The stuff that we get as people that just want to smoke something on a Friday night and pass it around our group of friends as we tell jokes, it's going to be a lot different of a standard that those two things meet.

3:09:52SpeakerYou know, that pass around on a Friday night might straight up come out of my backyard or ATN's backyard or Mark's backyard or Tony's backyard. It could come out of like any simple place that we'd accept and not freak out if it wasn't tested. It would be like, smells great, Tony. What strain is this? Or, you know, or should I say cultivar? But, you know, I think this is where we'll see a big difference in the future cannabis markets.

3:10:17SpeakerMaybe I'm wrong, but I think medicine will be medicine. I agree with everything you guys are saying. I think that ATN, what he's talking about specifically, I'll give you an idea. A lot of reasons why I'm at Harborside is we're taking run terpenes or doing different things that we're doing there. I've been starting to make product specifically for vets. What he's talking about and the way that they presented that regulations and things like that.

3:10:46SpeakerLet's say it's there. We make the medicine. We get it tested. To give it away, that's not where the regulators aren't thinking about that. They're like, what do you mean give it away? What do you mean you just want to give it away? And, you know, that's why we're in this and that's why I'm where I'm at because, you know, just that process to be able to give medicine away, a lot of people don't see that.

3:11:08SpeakerSo they're like, okay, well, we're supporting this product or we're supporting this particular brand and my portion and I know my partners, you know, we want to give. So there's a percentage of medicine that we actually want to give to the patients that Etienne's talking about. And they just need to really look into that and actually know that there are compassionate people that don't necessarily want to try to make a buck on that, that there are some really fucking sick people that really need some medicine.

3:11:35SpeakerAnd if you give them a 10-pack of some CBD and CBN or just whatever, it's anything. At that point in their life, it's going to give them hope. It's going to give them a little bit of a better day, and there shouldn't be a restriction on the mechanism of them doing it. Sure, we want it to be tested, and sure, we want to go through certain things, but the way that chart looked that he's talking about, I don't think everyone's maybe seen it with the distributor.

3:12:04SpeakerThey just need to look at the flow. And like really give that some compassion and not treat it... You know, Tony, when I started the Compassion Club in 1995, I called it a Compassion Club, and when I did media, I used to say to people that it really, if you're in a situation where you can help somebody, it's really not a matter of capitalism or opportunity. It's about, it's a question of compassion.

3:12:29SpeakerAnd are you really going to deny somebody, like a little kid, like, My mother was in a situation with a little kid going through chemo and radiation simultaneously. You know something might help him, are you going to say, no, sorry kid, puke. That's really a hard thing to, and when you frame it like that to people, it's really hard to deny compassion and having a place of empathy for people that are going through a tough situation.

3:12:52SpeakerYou know, it does hurt us now that we have, you know, 21 year old jocks who are claiming medical cannabis because, you know, they have to or they can't use it when really they're just sick of prohibition and they want to not drink alcohol. And I respect that too. And this is where I think prohibition is so hurtful to us all psychologically because we have to live with all of the side effects of how it affects our lives.

3:13:15SpeakerAnd that is really hard, you know, in my opinion. Yeah, and I think Horatio also, there is something that you said that kind of made me think about that for a second was vouchers in the sense that, you know, we have food stamps for people that need food. And maybe there could be a system that's created where it's, you know, a voucher or a stamp that's for cannabis if you qualify and you're one of those patients.

3:13:43SpeakerYou're able to use those vouchers or you're able to use those things in a mechanism which says, okay, we've made this medicine, gone through the protocols, and this is actually going to be given to that patient for free, and the state could recognize that particular voucher. That probably would be the solution.

3:13:59HoratioDoes that work? Like, I was listening to what you were saying, and I was like, does it work that way, or would it have to be more Marcel's way where you give the voucher of value, but to the government and to the patient it's just glass? Like that's why I was thinking glass because the value other than its weight as glass is all in, it becomes a cannabis community value system where you can re-own the value so you can still choose your patients because everyone has their own needs and you know if everyone's allowed you know 28 grams and you know one person is dying and needs a pound would Re-evaluating the value of this glass token, which you control, allow you a way around that system, but with something they respect.

3:14:46SpeakerNo, I think what I was thinking of was more like the way that stamp works, or that voucher would work, not really on a glass level, but it would be a recognition from the state that gives them an exemption. So like when we think about medicine, we're not supposed to tax medical patients. We're not supposed to tax medicine if it's medicine. And if they recognize that we are medical and it's medicine, and you are qualifying in the conditions that Etienne's talking about, then a voucher would just basically say to the state, hey, you're not collecting taxes, we're not making money on it, and we're helping this person get their food or their medicine.

3:15:22SpeakerAnd that might be fairly...

3:15:26EtienneI was a test case for the state of California for the actual... Taxation of medical cannabis, and that was a five-year fight. They came after us in 2007 after the State Board of Equalization decided that, you know, we're going to go tax you back, because back in the day we went to them asking, can I have a permit? And they're like, no, we don't have seller permits for medical cannabis dispensaries.

3:15:52EtienneSo every year we filed with our taxes what we thought was our medicine, which was non-taxable. And so In 2007, when the State Board of Legalization decided, hey, you know what? We're going to tax you guys, and if you've been paying your taxes, we're going to only go back three years. If you haven't been going back and paying your taxes, it goes back seven years. So BPG had a store as well, so we've been paying our taxes on everything, so it only went back three years.

3:16:20EtienneAnd they went and hit us with a $3.6 million judgment of taxation all of a sudden that... Made us look like we've been avoiding taxes, which hadn't been the case at all. We've been filing, paying all our federal, state, and all the proper taxes. They decided it wasn't an actual medicine. And so when I received this wonderful letter saying, congratulations, you owe us a shitload of money, I went and got the former head of the State Board of Equalization as my counsel, wasted way too much money that it would make all of you choke if you realized And the State Board of Equalization came to us and said, here's the reality, kid.

3:17:02EtienneYou're taking a dive because we're taxing medical cannabis and you're standing in our way and you're going to lose. End of story. So you're going to go over into settlement and settle, but in the meantime, you're standing in our way and you're done. And I had no choice but to just step down. Their power is too big. Okay, that's the reality. I don't hold money. The State Board of Equalization says I'm holding their money for them.

3:17:28EtienneSo let's explore. I have ways into the state of legalization and other ways, and we have to figure out ways and strategies how to figure out an actual voucher system. But the state of California has already decided that it's taxable, and they're not going to stop the taxation and give it back. That's just the reality. And with the next step of legalization, of recreation, it's going to be taxed even more.

3:17:54EtienneAnd right now, with the new laws that they're talking for us right now, They're talking a 15% taxation for medical patients already on top of I have a 2.5% retail sales in Berkeley and then a wholesale sales tax I have to pay. So there's 20% in taxation plus the 9% over-the-counter tax that you have to pay as well. So then that would be a 29% taxation right off the top.

3:18:23EtienneSo that's the reality that we're looking at right now. Now, with the amount of money that the state of California is looking at, how do we convince them to give away free stuff? That's the challenge.

3:18:34SpeakerThat's the key. That's the key. At the very end, what you said, which is in Colorado, they're making a tremendous amount of tax money. They had a surplus. They gave money back to some of the taxpayers. So California, in perspective, Colorado's entire state is $4.5 million. We live in the Bay Area. Just the Bay Area is twice the size of Colorado. So when you get regulation going and you start getting those tax monies in, and California's 50 million people that we know of that's reported.

3:19:05SpeakerAnd so when you start getting into those kind of numbers, that's the key. When you say, hey guys, you're about to regulate, you're about to have this 29% tax, it's great, we're going to legalize, you're going to have recreational. But for those that are qualifying in the real world, Real in need, perhaps they could develop a small section for that where they say, okay, well, we can make those particular type of patients exempt.

3:19:32EtienneThey do it for the pharmaceutical companies. Maybe we follow that model or that loop because they're allowed vouchers for low income or even free medication depending on the situation. So maybe that's the dialogue we have to utilize or bring that language forward.

3:19:48SpeakerYeah, and we know how much money the pharmaceutical companies make the state. So if they're going to get into that, that's... And that's the whole insurance game. So this particular thing is different. So maybe you could try to... You know, I'm new to California, and I respect everything that you're doing and other people are doing in the state, and I try to kind of stay out of the political side.

3:20:11SpeakerBut sometimes, you know, something in this particular fashion is something I'm passionate about. I'd love to see... Somebody push through and say, look guys, you're about to get a whole bunch of money. Let's see if we can make this particular group of patients get the medicine they need for free. Create some kind of voucher system. They're going to have more than enough money. And it's not like everyone's going to flock towards that.

3:20:36SpeakerWe're talking about SSI, low income. We're talking about vets that are left with nothing. They're left with nothing, man. I don't think you're going to get Donald Trump supporters with that kind of rhetoric, bro. You'd be wanting to build free highways for people to just drive down next, libraries for them to read books at and stuff. I don't think they're going to like that, man. You mean like my hero, Andrew Carnegie?

3:21:02SpeakerYeah. I don't think they'll like that too much. But what is going on with that? Because I honestly stopped watching him. No, the game was absolutely generous, dude. It's like one of those shows where they used to punch the puppets with each other. It's awesome. If you watch it as pure comedy, it's quite entertaining. I only watch the Saturday Night Live versions of it now.

3:21:24EtienneNo, the real version is well entertaining and well worth it, I have to tell you. The Democratic ones are droll and will put you to sleep, but the entertainment of Donald Trump just throwing trash at both of and everyone, and then Carson on the side going, will someone make fun of me?

3:21:41SpeakerIt's just pure comedy. Saturday Night Live cannot do a good job as they're doing on stage. Ben Carson in the background saying somebody pick on me is like literally would be a Saturday Night Live skit. You know, and instead these idiots are standing up there doing it like they're fucking real. And it's just obnoxious. You know what, America, you're getting what you deserve. You know, this is what you think is good leadership.

3:22:08HoratioAre you starting to get scared, Todd? Because every time you look on the stage you start to go, fuck, Donald Trump's the only real man. And that's the problem. Because every time I watch the Jeb Bush story, I'm like, this is funny. Like, Jeb Bush was supposed to be an automatic. And then this fucking business guy talking like internet troll trash destroys a multi-million dollar campaign. And literally then comes up and is like, look at this guy.

3:22:36HoratioLook at all the money he wasted. You want that guy running your country? And I'm like, fuck, Donald, you're right.

3:22:41SpeakerDude, is it not the best thing he's done, though, is calling them all out for what they really are? You know, it's unbelievable. They all respect him because he's got a shit ton of gold, and that's really it. I mean, really, that's it. If he was broke, right, they'd be like, out of here. But instead, they're like, oh, we love you because you're rich.

3:23:00EtienneWe pray to you. I mean, Jeb wasted $150 million and did nothing. And on top of that, You know, Trump is threatening to, you know, if he doesn't win the nomination, he's just going to go off and do it himself, which is going to take the complete and utter wind out of, and I'm hearing behind the scenes reading some of the newspapers in D.C. and they're actually talking how the Republicans are going to back Hillary rather than trying to back Trump if Trump wins the actual nomination.

3:23:31EtienneSo that's already circulating through the backwaters, which is absolute hilarity. And, I mean, you can't write this stuff. I mean, it really is sadly entertaining, and unfortunately, yeah, I mean, nothing is really good about Trump, but he's really a Democrat pretending to be a Republican and just tearing apart every single one of them along the way, which, I mean, none of us could have foreseen Jeb's out And we're not even done with the nomination process.

3:24:03EtienneI mean, he was a shoe-in. It was a done deal, as you said, Tony. It was over. The fascination has been Bernie and watching Bernie come out of nowhere and gain so much traction and then causing Hillary to backtrack on cannabis and actually change some of her. He's not challenging the same way that Trump is challenging the other two, but lordy, lordy, lordy, are we fine. Wait, wait, there's a key word that Frank Zappa said.

3:24:32EtienneThe American electoral system is nothing but the entertainment system for the industrial military complex.

3:24:38SpeakerIf you are pro-cannabis and you vote for any other candidate than Bernie Sanders, you need your head examined because Bernie Sanders is the only candidate that's come out to take a public position on delisting, taking off the list cannabis, taking off the list, okay? Does everybody hear this? Okay, you know how we do this thing on Hash Church where we say where we're from, what age we are?

3:25:04SpeakerLet's do a vote. I think let's do a vote. Vote right now in the chat room for either Bernie Or whoever you're going to vote for. Let's see it. I want to see the burn. We need to feel the burn. Everyone involved in cannabis should be voting for Bernie Sanders. It's the only candidate. Period. End of story.

3:25:25HoratioBernie Sanders is going to take your patents for the greater good of the nation's debt.

3:25:30SpeakerHe could have them if he's president. That's fine. D-List Cannabis. Thank you.

3:25:35EtienneI can't disagree with that. But, I mean, if you thought this president currently, the first African-American president, wasn't blocked... By Congress before, if Bernie got in, I mean, it would be, you know, I want to see it happen. I support Bernie because he speaks truth to where you get Hillary, you get the same diatribe talk, etc., etc.,

3:26:03SpeakerBill Murray is bought and paid by Wall Street. There's plenty of records, easily accessible on the Internet to show it.

3:26:09EtienneAnd the biggest supporter of Bernie Sanders is the National Cannabis Industries Association.

3:26:15SpeakerHe was the mayor of Burlington, Vermont when Phish started. Come on. You've got to vote for Bernie. Bernie represents the real working people. Uh, American, and he's the only one that's going to take, you know, cannabis off the list. So if you want to see the delisting of cannabis, vote for Bernie Sanders. End of story.

3:26:36EtienneAnd remember, you are the youngest, largest, youngest generation now. You outnumber the baby boomers. If the actual millennials actually went out and voted, and actually did it, and actually registered, and actually executed their vote, You would be amazed.

3:26:54SpeakerThe last socialist president we had was Franklin Roosevelt, and we loved him so much we kept him in for four terms. If Bernie was truly elected, let's be honest, doesn't he have a lot to fear from the industrial military prison complex? I mean, Jesus, you're talking about trillions of dollars they would lose.

3:27:18EtienneAnd it's so interwoven into our economy.

3:27:21SpeakerRather than building bridges in Afghanistan. Manufacturing in prisons.

3:27:26EtienneYeah, absolutely. I could totally see a Kennedy situation.

3:27:31SpeakerYeah, rather than nation building offshore, we need to nation take all that money that we spend on the Pentagon and redo our infrastructure. You know, the entire Eisenhower interstate system and all of the bridges and all of the overpasses, well, All of that salt that we use to melt all the ice basically corrodes all the rebar and when you corrode rebar and reinforce concrete, you ain't got reinforced concrete.

3:28:01SpeakerYou got big rocks that are going to fall from the sky and they need to go through every major city And redo so much stuff. We need to rebuild bridges here, not in Afghanistan and not in the Middle East. We need to redo them here in New York City and Philadelphia. We need to put that money into the U.S. and not spend it. Defund the DEA. Why do we need a DEA?

3:28:28SpeakerYou know, take DEA's money. They should abolish the DEA, abolish tobacco and alcohol. It's all bullshit. Take that money and put it into the United States, not spend it elsewhere. Bring everyone, have operation, bring everyone home. Why do we have anyone military deployed now? Bring them all home. You know? What the fuck? I will vote for Bernie in Europe. We need to turn prisons into cannabis grow operations.

3:28:58SpeakerWhat was that, Lorenzo? What was that, Lorenzo?

3:29:05LorenzoI will vote Bernie Sanders in Europe. Any country for Europe, I will vote for him. 100%.

3:29:12SpeakerI thought you were going to ask about hash. Honestly, I was hoping you were going to ask about hash. Actually, Lorenzo, maybe we should all smoke? Come on, man. Send politics. Yeah, I vote we all light something up.

3:29:33LorenzoYeah, I always... You don't even understand how much we need someone like Bernie. You don't even understand how much we need someone like him. I'm really following what is happening out there. I mean, Trump. I mean, Hillary Clinton. I mean, what the fuck? He's not even... Plausible like candidate. I mean, one is an over-crazy man. The other one is just the wife of the president that just made a scandal.

3:30:05LorenzoOkay, he wasn't the best president of all. It's just the female part of him. I mean, it's just craziness to me. Just to think about to vote someone else off Bernie. He's the only one that is going to make... A change, and as Europe follows everything that does America, I really hope that Bernie Sanders is going to be elected, because I hope we're going to follow what he's doing.

3:30:34SpeakerThank you. Thank you for saying that. Thank you so much.

3:30:37EtienneSo, Lorenzo, what are you smoking right now?

3:30:42LorenzoMoroccan hash. A really good one. 70 micron Moroccan ash. Yeah, I have these guys that go up there with the different kind of microns and they just make really good Moroccan ash. Not like the one you're used to see here. It's really, really tasteful. This one is tangy. It tastes like tangy.

3:31:05SpeakerOkay, and is it from seeded marijuana or Simpsonia marijuana?

3:31:13LorenzoI think that there is a little bit of contamination, pollen contamination in Morocco. I really think it is.

3:31:21SpeakerI've never seen, seems to me, a marijuana grown in Morocco.

3:31:26LorenzoNever. No, it is huge fields. The point is they try to make feminized seeds. They use feminized seeds. They don't use clone and stuff. But out of 60,000 seeds, you might find an Hermia. That Hermia is going to pollen everything. So you're going to have not really Sensimia, but they use the weed just to make ash. They don't smoke the weed.

3:31:54SpeakerOh, I know. I've been to Morocco many times, but yeah. Oh, you know. They don't grow simsimiya in Morocco. They don't. And even if you grew it on your farm, your neighbor's farm would make yours not simsimiya. Exactly. Exactly like that.

3:32:14HoratioSam, was it so bad, did you ever get seeds in your hash?

3:32:19SpeakerWhat did you just say? Excuse me?

3:32:21HoratioWas it ever so bad that you got seeds in your hash, like the seeds literally puncturing through the screens?

3:32:27SpeakerAny sifted country where you get hashish from, or rubbed country where it's rubbed like in Manali, Kashmir, and Nepal, you can find seeds in your hash occasionally. Yes?

3:32:40HoratioDoes it pop and blow up in your face like a joint or is it worse? Because usually you look directly at your hash and that's the worst time for a seed to go off. A seed go off? Yeah, like is it, like when I look at people's hash, it's like a thumb's worth of hash in a bowl and they just go.

3:33:00SpeakerNo, the seeds weren't popping, I just found them in hashish sometimes in the old days.

3:33:09SpeakerAnd the seeds were still good. You could grow them.

3:33:13HoratioSo that's like beyond a bag seed story. I found the seed in my hash. It survived.

3:33:18SpeakerWell, it's one step above bag seed because you usually know where the hash is coming from in general.

3:33:30BubblemanHere, let's check this out. We just got a soil sample here from our friends. Came in from St. Elizabeth. A little soil sample.

3:33:41SpeakerLet's see the... We'll be testing this soil. We got soil from... Oh, sorry, but we'll...

3:33:51BubblemanWhich one is this? This is the other... That's the farm. Oh, yeah. All right, there's another one in there you can't really see, but chunks of soil. We're going to find out what's going on in there. Always a good way to start, see if you're going to require some... Well, we'll definitely require something. Hey, Chili, say hi to Hash Church. What's up guys? Chili's from Oregon. He's here checking out Jamaica, potential projects with us.

3:34:17BubblemanThis is his first appearance on Hash Church. Old grower. Old school grower, right?

3:34:25ChloeYep.

3:34:26BubblemanExcellent. Excellent. Everyone's quiet on Hash Church right now. But we are honing in on our last half an hour here. I hope some of my musician friends are going to roll through. It would be nice to see at least one song. Play out, but if not, you can puff a few bowls and that'll have to do.

3:34:49EtienneWhat's your favorite varietal that you've seen this week?

3:34:54BubblemanThere was some, Tony had some nice bud here the other day. He had some, what did you have? You had Sensi Star and Sour Diesel. Yeah, yeah, he had really nice flowers. Really nice resin content. I shouldn't take pictures of them with my macro lens because I'm sure they'll look beautiful. He had cured it properly. It snapped when you broke it and he had it in a glass jar which was red off and it was green.

3:35:20BubblemanSo all good starts to that. So props to you, Tony.

3:35:24SpeakerWhere was that grown again? Where was that from again? St. Ann?

3:35:29BubblemanSt. Ann. In the house representing. Do you have any of it on you? Not right now. Damn. We would have shown them. Next time.

3:35:44EtienneDid you see any local bubble? What struck your fancy?

3:35:48BubblemanNo, I don't generally see too much local bubble. Which one's this? Oh, yeah. Which one's this now? That's the sour diesel.

3:35:59EtienneYeah. Outdoor, indoor?

3:36:05BubblemanOutdoors, yeah.

3:36:08BubblemanNo food. No food, yeah. Put the clone, did you agree with this one, clone? Yeah, he put the clone in the dirt and just poured water on it. And that's the beauty of cannabis, isn't it? Nutrient companies don't want you knowing that, but yeah, it works. Lots of people are frozen for me.

3:36:36EtienneIt'll pull up, you know, it'll grow where needed, you know. It's a great thing about it. It's a very hardy, there's a reason they call it a weed, right?

3:36:43BubblemanAbsolutely. I really noticed that in India. It really is growing all over India, like in ditches and stuff. And just like if you're on the train traveling through the country, you would see a lot of cannabis growing, at least I did in the 90s.

3:36:59SpeakerHey, I have a question I'd like to ask the panel. I don't know if anybody has any experience on this, but is anybody aware of folks who actually do their decarb on the plant before they extract?

3:37:13SpeakerTony, are you aware of anybody who does that? That happens to him all the time because they cook it.

3:37:19HoratioThey cook it. To pass my cobia on.

3:37:23SpeakerWhat do you mean by on the plant? Like while it's alive or after it's dead? No, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying before extracting, they decarb the flower and then an extraction. So they're actually extracting... I'm not so sure how much I can comment on that, but I can tell you that I have...

3:37:52SpeakerBeen using, let's see how I can say this. Short answer is yes. I can't go any deeper than that because that is tied into what I some past. Hey, that means I asked a good question, right? Yeah, it's a really good question. Dr. Yeah, I was just wondering, obviously when you decarbonize the flower, you're doing chemistry, including decarboxylation, but when you do decarboxylation, the cannabinoids become more non-polar, right?

3:38:36SpeakerThey become more hydrophobic, and you would think that, again, it would be maybe easier to extract After de-carving, but you're, again, you're heating up the plant in such a way that you're probably doing other chemistry to make your yield and make the medicine completely different than it was when it was in the trichomes. I was just wondering if anybody had any experience with that. That's all.

3:39:04EtienneDr. Lots. Dr. Here.

3:39:06SpeakerDr. Lots. Dr. Okay.

3:39:11SpeakerPlenty, plenty. I think that your brain, yeah. What do you do? You're a smart guy, so I can just say yes.

3:39:21HoratioThat's what I was going to say, Tony. I tried to defer it to hemp. I remember back when I first started and I'm like, has someone cooked this bud? I'm going to extract it anyway. It's good for stuff, but it does make a big difference depending on what you're doing because you do come across that if you have to deal with industrial hemp.

3:39:39SpeakerIt's usually always cooked, so there's no... Well, I can also tell you that in Colorado, for us to pass the public health department for botulism as well, we had to develop a certain type of SOP to be able to get around our raw cannabinoids. And there's many, many different parameters to that particular thing besides decarboxylation. So there's different things that go on with what you're talking about besides just that.

3:40:17HoratioMark's digging it. Mark's digging it. And IP, like, that's the kind of thing, it's like, if we develop a UV technology that allows us to pass microbial versus everyone having to go in loops and ruin their reputation, it's life-saving for a business. So, that's the weird thing about hash churches, we're always stumbling upon great truths that might put people's kids through school.

3:40:40SpeakerRight, but if you compare that to the, we were talking about dry sift and the quality and the, The sort of like the, if you had to make a cannabis derived quality pyramid, certainly dry sift would be at the apex of that pyramid. Is there any argument from anyone? I mean, that's like the highest quality cannabis derived material, the purest. It doesn't get any better than that.

3:41:13SpeakerAnd so anything that basically

3:41:20SpeakerAny kind of thermal history that any kind of material sees, it's going to change it. And even those authors speculate in the Hashishin article is that, again, it's just the stuff that's exposed to light because they were proposing it's a light Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.

3:42:06SpeakerThe corporate nature, hey, if we're increasing yield and throughput, that's good for my bottom line, but you're altering the medicine in such a way that you're compromising some of the great aspects of what you're putting into your plants to begin with. It's just a thought. I don't know. Mark's a smart guy. No, I'm not.

3:42:31ChloeNo, I'm not. I've been smart.

3:42:34SpeakerYeah, you are.

3:42:38SpeakerYeah, I was going to say something else, though. You had brought something else up. I'm not trying to change the subject. Tony, I don't want you to compromise any intellectual property. No, no, no. It was something that you brought up, though, because I just forgot what it was. Don't be ambiguous. I didn't have my coffee this morning.

3:42:56EtienneDon't be ambiguous.

3:42:59SpeakerIt was something you were just saying. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is in a simple format. This is why I gravitate towards Bubble Man and Sand the Skunk Man as my favorite people. Because when you said the apex of dry sift, that really is the key. Because you're mechanically isolating the resin heads down to 99%. Then you can, just like when someone's saying, hey, I've got CBD crystalline, 99.96%.

3:43:29SpeakerYou have to have a starting base. And because cannabis in its nature and what we've always dealt with, you know, thinking of dry sift on that level is something that we just haven't been able to do because of the volume, cost of goods and things like that. And this is why I always promote outdoor and greenhouse because eventually you get kilos and kilos and kilos of that dry sift.

3:43:53SpeakerAnd then we can start making real medicine. And that's why I always really respected Mark's system and Bubbleman's system in saying, hey, there's a reason why there's a 73, a 90, a 120, a 45, a 25. There's different head sizes, and each one of those head sizes will allow us to do different things down the road. And there's a lot of people that skip the 90 bag or take bags out of it And that's cool if you're just thinking about it from a hash level, but if you're really thinking about it from mechanical separation of the plant's potential, you really have to get in deep, and each plant's going to produce something different.

3:44:36SpeakerYou know, different size heads, different reasons for it.

3:44:43HoratioSam, over your years of testing your dry sift, compared to the actual flour that you test for, you know, other reasons, have you find over the microns that as the heads develop, they actually show completely different profiles than the plant? Because I remember there was a short discussion on there being six types of trichomes and only three are, like, mechanically available. One was, like, you know, basically the rhino skin on the plant, like, over the whole surface area represents...

3:45:11HoratioSome form of ratio like do you ever find where you know your plant has okay good it has a decent amount of CBD and then the 90 micron doesn't have any CBD but it's showing up at a higher percent in the 45 or not at all and it really comes from stem trichomes. I just keep seeing like this one aspect where no one is testing what's not mechanically separable so it becomes an unstudied Thank you for joining us.

3:46:06SpeakerI'm sure you do get different terpene profiles, but you're not getting different terpenes, you're just getting a different profile of those terpenes that that plant can produce.

3:46:23HoratioBecause in the case of dry sift, there's no 45 micron, there's no 25 micron, it's not Basically, it's only me that wants to go there.

3:46:56HoratioI notice that sometimes like the 25 micron in a tropical strain, would that then produce a new level of issues? If let's say I wanted to dry sip all my work, but 25 micron is where tropical heads become the most medicinal?

3:47:10SpeakerWell, if you find so, then it's a problem. But until then, I don't think so. I've never seen really, really good resin that was that small. I've seen it anywhere from maybe the 75 micron up to or around to 150, but I've never seen it so small as you're talking.

3:47:42HoratioBecause I had that theory of the grape, and just like harvesting crab apples for completely sour, insane, different, but then it develops to a sweet apple, I wondered if the trichomes go through that kind of course, and in those smaller, undeveloped microns that we can't make awesome smoke out of, there's a smell profile that says, I could get these heads.

3:48:06SpeakerI have never measured the sizes of enough trichomes. Uh, resin, uh, by microns, uh, both fresh and dry because they alter quite a bit as we all know.

3:48:21HoratioTony, you can do it in bubble hash. Like, I hear the stories of like the 45 was just, and every time I hear small micron unique potency, I think, I think, I think, I think, well, what if I could isolate even small, what is it saying about its, you know, we can't grow a plant that's all 45 heads, but When Bubble Man speaks of the tropics, it seems the sun forces more small heads versus larger heads to develop and melt.

3:48:47HoratioIt seems like there's potential in the smaller sizes. Have you come across that in Bubble Hash where it smells good but it doesn't melt?

3:48:59SpeakerI think that Chimera and Bubble Man would be better suited to answer that question. But I could give you my two cents and say that, you know, genetics plays a big part, and the environment in which it's grown plays a big part. And in Jamaica, they might have rains or they might have droughts that would affect those types of head sizes. But I definitely know those two would give you a better answer.

3:49:32SpeakerI missed the question. Sorry. I was reading something.

3:49:37SpeakerThat was a long thesis.

3:49:42SpeakerWhat he was basically saying was he was trying to say that, like saying, trying to get a plant to basically focus on producing 45 micron sized heads that are melty. And what the play of outdoor would be on the effects of that. And I simply replied with genetics and environment have a big part in what head sizes are going to fall into those categories and which ones are actually going to melt.

3:50:13SpeakerIn Jamaica, as an example, if they had a drought or they had flooding, that would change that drastically. I know when Bubble Man and I ran in We ran different washes. We would see like 25s and 45s being a bigger bag. But that was also during a drought and it had to do with that particular type of cultivar. But I also know we've run other stuff and like there would be nothing in the 90 or there would be a lot in the 120.

3:50:42SpeakerSo I said that you and Bubble Man would probably answer that better than I would. What's the second question? Size on trichomes is, you know, it's a progression. Can you turn that off? Size on trichomes is a progression that they go through as they mature, right, as they grow. So you're never going to have a plant that has 45 micron trichomes. It's just one stage of the growth of the trichomes.

3:51:08BubblemanExactly. Exactly. And that's a very accurate statement, that those maturity rates happen all at different rates throughout the plant. And it's why you can consistently find with a macro lens trichomes in each and every stage, even at the very, very beginning of its flowering life cycle, sometimes even before. And obviously way, way late into the, like towards the end of its life, you can still see like new trichome development and like, you know, young immature heads that have not yet ambered out, so.

3:51:43SpeakerYeah. So that's part of it. And, you know, that whatever that means, the ratio of oils inside the gland to the gland waxes on the surface membrane or whatever. But there's also something going on with, there are different types of trichomes, and we are mostly isolating the capitat stock trichomes, but there also are sessile trichomes and things like that that vary in size. And I think that the 25 and the 45, they do have more immature capitat heads, but they also have more sessile heads, because sessile heads are typically smaller.

3:52:24SpeakerAlso, too, Ryan... For sure, young terpenes have a different profile than older terpenes.

3:52:35SpeakerThe smells change during the maturation.

3:52:39HoratioMy question to Sam at the point was like because he tests the whole bud for all the people who, I'm always studying why people go, ah, smoking does something for me that I can't get from hash even though I make hash every day. And I'm like, huh, I wonder if they need something in a medicine that's not in that particular mechanical separation. How serious is that? I'm like, maybe it's because they love stock trichomes, and that's where all the CBN really lies, and in the 70 micron, it's not as much.

3:53:07HoratioI was asking him about his testing history, and if he could see where basically heads didn't match.

3:53:14SpeakerYeah, there's no CBN in plants. There's no CBN. We didn't find it even after a year or two of storage. Yeah. CBN is something that we create post-harvest. You don't see it in the plants.

3:53:27HoratioIt's not created in the grow room when a cola is, one set of top colas are literally on the light and the rest, three quarters of the plant is in a completely different thermal zone. I'm talking about grower error on plant cooking.

3:53:40SpeakerI don't know. We don't sample. That's a damaged or a flawed flower. That doesn't go to market, so who cares to sample that stuff, right? We don't sample that shit. It's destroyed. If it's leaning up against a lamp, it's not something that can go to market. And a year or two storage of dry bud and really no significant CBN at all.

3:54:04HoratioYeah, yeah. I agree. I don't, like when I try with like older extract, if they're stored properly, it doesn't seem to change it. But I've also seen things where I'm like, what did you do? Like, did you put this bud in a truck and then put the truck on in the desert and then it was 24 hours of sunlight, then... Basically, it's all grower error, but there's so many ways that plants get damaged in processing that obviously goes to market because those become the big colas in the bag.

3:54:34HoratioIf they're not heat, heat damage. I find that if I get into a grow room, I'm like, that cola looks huge and it smells like nothing because it's too close to the radiant heat source, even though the room is cool. Like, I know that I don't want top colas anymore because everyone grows the biggest bud there and it's actually the most useless.

3:54:54SpeakerAre the THC contents lower? I know the terpene contents are lower for the reason you're saying, but are the THC contents also lower? Because they don't vaporize off.

3:55:07HoratioI find that it becomes a color discoloration, so people have a mental connection with clarity and vibrance to THC content, even though it's clear, so if it makes a darker extract, the brain assumes it's got less THC. But I couldn't tell you, because that would be like extracting top colas versus mids versus bottoms.

3:55:28SpeakerRight. And what I'm wondering is, is there just as much resin and is the THC still there? Because it doesn't vape off. Yeah, absolutely.

3:55:38HoratioI'd actually say it ruins my dry sift. When I look, I always find that the heads are melted back onto the stocks into that damaged crystal ball where it's like the head is ruptured. So, like, I'll be sifting, and I'm like, what is going on?

3:55:53SpeakerThat's not a good sign for dry sifting.

3:55:55HoratioNo, it's a horrible sign for dry sifting. It always comes from, like, here, I'll give you the top colas. It's the best stuff. And then halfway through, I'm like, why didn't I scope this before I started? I wasted four hours, and I have smashed marbles, and it's never going to work. I'm crushing contaminant into it. Yep.

3:56:14SpeakerI just wanted to say one thing on the topic. You were talking about different... Compounds being produced in different trichomes, there might be some indication that sessile trichomes actually produce CBC. So, you know, if you end up with like, if you use these 25 and the 45 bags that really catch a lot of the smaller stuff, you might have different fractions, but I think that overall it's going to be pretty low.

3:56:40HoratioIt is. I heard a story, like I'm saving, everyone has this, there's a forum question that always goes, can I process my stocks? And everyone's like, you're going to kill yourself for a quarter gram. But then someone goes, I saved 10 pounds worth of stocks from California outdoor growth. And I made this product and it's insane and it smells like amino acid and I'm like, what, what, what, what?

3:57:02HoratioIs that a CBC concentrate? What cannabinoid did you get by shelling, basically throwing away all the trichomes and sticking to only the razor skin? That's why I always wonder if you focus your entire life into one micron or another, you might miss what could be the ratio of medicine that came from the genetic that was meant for you. I never know why some people always will smoke and it may be because they need that CBC and the micro amounts that come on the stock.

3:57:29HoratioIt takes a very small amount of CBN to put you to bed mixed with a lot of THC. So these things need to have these strange homeopathic Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time.

3:58:05SpeakerYeah, that's what I was suspecting. Yeah, the younger plants, they actually probably just produce more sessile trichomes. There's not as many capitate stock trichomes on the plant, right? And if you actually look at the GW patent for the production of CBC, they do just veg plants. They essentially vegetate plants out and they don't flower them. So, to me that suggests that they're just collecting...

3:58:34SpeakerThey're just collecting those CESOL trichomes.

3:58:37BubblemanAnd what is their collection way?

3:58:40SpeakerWhat are they collecting with?

3:58:41BubblemanWhat is their method of collection? What are they extracting with? CO2?

3:58:46SpeakerI don't know, actually. One time they were using CO2, but I cannot say at the moment what they're actually doing. I don't know if they're doing that for CDC, but it stands to reason that they would. I think they're actually producing a... Again, this is kind of from like reading the patents and making suppositions, but if you read David Potter's thesis, he talks about using bubble bags actually to do extraction, the GW.

3:59:15SpeakerThat wasn't for production, that was just fucking around. No, I know, I know it was, but I seem to remember, I don't have it in front of me.

3:59:22BubblemanI saw it. I read it as well, they did say it was using water and ice.

3:59:27SpeakerYeah, but I think that they actually, what they did is they did an isolate with the 25s and they found that they were higher in CBC. So it stands to reason that that's like a similar process that we're using, right?

3:59:38HoratioThat's kind of why I was asking, dude, because like I've smoked the things that you're not supposed to smoke and I'm like, whoa. And you know how I have my retarded like rub the trichomes and veg and pick the plants theory, but if you're basically saying I'm rubbing C, I don't want to say it wrong because I'm high, CBC, cannabinoid trichomes dominant. That if they're expressing terpenes, that relationship on the stock, I'm very much like, I think I just want to extract this, that's why I was like, why does this plant feel done, like I'm just supposed to extract it, like first week flower and quit, and just do that, but I don't know, like you answered it, I'll be concentrating CBC, and I do want that for my bomb.

4:00:19SpeakerYou might want to check the ratio, does it have CBC?

4:00:25HoratioThat's all in budget and testing, but that's kind of why I'm like, this is caveman tech, but when you say something like that, and I'm like, fuck, I'm so fascinated before the real trichomes come on, that it seems to be my secret proprietary focus to get, you know, a unique spin on things.

4:00:42SpeakerCBC is really uncommon. Yeah, it's really low quantities. And I've got to say again, Rachel, I know we talk about bioassay and you say, when I smoke this thing, it'll be just figured out. You can't always do it that way. It's way better if you have the analytical data because then you can do both the bioassay and compare it to... This whole set of data that you just wouldn't have any other way, you know?

4:01:14HoratioAbsolutely. You have to understand, from my position, the fact that I can even cross-reference a bioassay thesis against you, and all of your laboratory experience moves me up compared to every guy that just goes, I know because I know. I'm like, no, see, at least I know I have a hunch plus some data leaning this way. I can't wait until I'm in a position to do the kinds of things that you're doing.

4:01:37HoratioOr else, of course, I'd just be like, hmm, that smoke's different. Send that off. Because when I first learned the static tech, I was more interested in the fact I got other fractions than the main goal. So I felt like I was removing trichomes from stocks and contaminant and then I would smoke the contaminant and I'm like, weird, I'm getting something that I could see a certain type of people wanting.

4:02:00HoratioI don't want to feel like this all fucking day. I'm going to smoke the hash now, but I swear if I had a mountain of this and I extracted this and I sent it for testing, I'd have a decent proportion of something unique. I always liked the fact that static weight was also another way of fractioning contaminants and other isolates. So maybe I'd get a static tech that would pull out all the hairs and then be able to use that mechanical separation technique as an isolation.

4:02:25SpeakerJust don't fall into the trap of like assuming that it's like for example you were saying You know, later plants CBN, more drowsy, and that's the dogma that we all live under, but I don't think it's true. Like, you know, when you start looking at plants and people see that, oh shit, there is no CBN in the plants. And what it, like everybody says, it's the late harvest, the THC turns into CBN, and then that's what makes you drowsy, you know?

4:02:51HoratioNot absolutely true. Now I can fuck up the conversation even worse. So now when I take hemp terpenes and put them on pure THCA, I get down regulation, fucking, oh my god, I'm fucking knocked out, what the fuck is going on? Hemp has no high, but I just strip the terpenes and change the cannabinoid. That's me. Mersing, pretty much strong, strong, retardo Mersing. And I'm like, huh, everyone thinks that's CBN.

4:03:18HoratioNow, I obviously distill, and I have CBN, and I'm like, huh, it seems like it only does so much if I don't have, it doesn't do much without THC. It's an initial on rush, but it doesn't stick with me. Without the right ratio, it doesn't put you to bed. And that's what I like is you can do certain things without terpenes, and you can do certain things without cannabinoids.

4:03:38HoratioAnd they both seem to play two sides of a hand. And it's a really complicated recipe when you just take, yeah, hemp, myrcene, and then say, fuck the hemp. How well could I, what strain would this be now if the strain was 50% THC, 50% myrcene? Could we grow something like that? Because people are getting real results in the field trying it experimentally.

4:04:01SpeakerWell, you're not going to grow it at that ratio, but you can definitely grow varieties that are high in myrcene and THC. And luckily, that's the most common thing there is on the market.

4:04:10HoratioWell, that's the weird thing, because I'm like, this is nothing like tuna kush. And I would have sworn tuna kush was myrcene city. I don't know if it's the, what is hemp is not the same or it's damaged because of the way they processed it, but it's not like the tuna kush, which I'm like, that's myrcene. When you get the turps, it's yellow. It's not, it's like a flowery different thing and that's why not knowing really how many.

4:04:33HoratioMaybe it's myrcene oxide. That's in scones. Now you're making, that makes more sense because. I'm just guessing. I wouldn't say you're guessing wrong, because as I look at how many people say, ooh, look, I've got terpenes, and I'm very acutely aware of the curve of the way terpenes get damaged and turn to this muted flowery smell over the course of heat processing, water exposure, air, and the rest, people are like, oh, I've got terpenes.

4:05:02HoratioI'm like, you could have cooked soup, but at the same time, these cooked soups become their own recipes. I'll bet you it's hashishine.

4:05:10SpeakerI mean, I do believe that, again, these folks who have identified this molecule now as a low energy, you know, light rearrangement of myrcene, it's a working hypothesis that any aging of myrcene You already answered it, dude.

4:05:35HoratioYou already answered it because the hemp is decarboxylated for it to pass on entry into the country.

4:05:41SpeakerYou answered the question. That's called a hypothesis. I mean, Mark, like for a chemist, you make these huge claims. That's where you start the experiment. You go into the lab and listen to the answer. You don't conclude that that's the answer. Well, I can add to that. When you oxidize or use heat, oxidize or heating the plant before you extract those terpenes or you extract terpenes and there's heat or oxidization happening, they will turn yellow.

4:06:13SpeakerEverything we do is clear as water. Does light or UVB also do that, Tony? I'm not allowed to comment on that.

4:06:23HoratioNever mind. We got it back on. Holy shit.

4:06:27SpeakerBecause all you're doing is you're oxidizing these terpenes, and yeah, the terpenes will have a chromophore, and yeah, it'll eventually turn yellow. Yellow is the eventual step on the brown and black and much darker colors, which mean you've oxidized it. No, my point, Chimera, of saying that it's probably hashishine is because if you read that paper, they looked at several different samples, and this was a common All of these products found in samples that were high in myrcene.

4:07:01SpeakerDr. That doesn't mean that it's probably not. Dr. Okay, hold on a second. They drew a very nice mechanism where you could see that, yeah, this could be a thermodynamic sort of sink that when you have a strain or a cultivar high in myrcene that either sees light or heat, and you basically, again, push this thing up a roller coaster, it's going to land in a different spot.

4:07:26SpeakerAnd the interesting thing, too, is that, as you know, most of these terpenes are thermal labile. They start rearranging and do chemistry with each other. But in the presence of air, all unsaturated compounds will start to decompose. You just can't keep it from happening. These things happen from the moment you harvest, from the moment you consume the material. With the gas chromatographs, don't just say, oh, it's probably this, or it could be this.

4:08:04SpeakerYou're essentially saying that this is probably what's happening when you have absolutely zero data to back that up. It's not hard to come back. What they've concluded in this paper. Oh, okay. I mean, don't, yo, dude. I know I don't have data. Thank you for watching.

4:08:40SpeakerOkay, I'll admit. But this stuff, essentially, it could be in there. It could be the compound that's in there. That's all. It could be. So let's take it to a lab and see if it's there. Like, we have all these analytical labs all over the place. Like, I know you don't have them in Pennsylvania.

4:08:56HoratioTamara, slow down. If I even saw myrcene oxide as an option on the terp list, I'd push the button. Like, the amount of labs that are still running the nine candy-flavored terpenes to represent cannabis... And we're going into chemical alterations of those standard terpenes. We're in the perfumer high zone. Like, it's not going to even happen at the labs the LPs fuck with.

4:09:20SpeakerIf the lab is measuring nine terpenes, they may as well not even be measuring any of them.

4:09:25HoratioI know. You have to understand, most labs are still in the kill yourself phase.

4:09:30SpeakerI know.

4:09:31BubblemanNine out of 22,000? No, no. There's 120 in cannabis, but there's really, like,

4:09:38BubblemanOh, I think there's more than 120. Yeah.

4:09:40SpeakerIt's been 120 identified according to...

4:09:43HoratioIt's 120 clean from the bud, but as soon as they start rearranging, it changes.

4:09:48BubblemanI spoke recently with a fellow from Israel, and he said that they had quite a few more than that through their tests and what, and I believe it was Meshulam that he was working with.

4:10:03SpeakerThere's maybe as many as 150. 140, 145 in the literature, and I identified five more. These Israelis claim about twice that many that they've... Yeah, but for example, in 1997 when we did our first terpene analysis, we analyzed for 50 or 60 terpenes. We didn't test for nine. Mm-hmm.

4:10:37SpeakerHow low can you go? When you send these things through a gas chromatograph, it's already been through an injection port at 250 or 200 degrees centigrade, so you've already sort of done Thank you for joining us today.

4:11:10HoratioAnd then I get irradiated hemp from Europe and it had to be irradiated to enter the country and it's completely decarbed and it's test completely decarbed. And I said, what the hell, let's see what's in it because it stinks like high heaven and seems to refuse to degrade even though it's cooked to shit. And I extract it and I'm like, wow, that is some yellow shit. And it's really unique and it's almost not mercine at this point.

4:11:34HoratioYou can't say that. I'm not getting into that declarative statements, but I'm looking at it and I'm like, wait a minute, I just extracted tuna kush, and I was afraid of it. Look at it from the standpoint of I think I'm fucking around with something that's radioactively, I know nothing about irradiation. I'm just experimenting. So I look at it and I'm like, it's very different, and I do like it experientially.

4:11:57HoratioIt's almost better than what I would think of as tuna kush mercine strain. Now, when I go to distill, and let's say I heat up limonene and I short pack distill it, I don't taste limonene on the other end. It's completely rearranged into another molecule. And if I start adding shit to my boiling flask, I'm going to turn limonene into multiple things at 136 Celsius, which is not an abnormal temperature for these people who are cooking hemp.

4:12:23HoratioI'm not saying it globally in weed. I'm not saying it just because I'm growing it a weird way. I'm only looking at hemp that's cooked, that I can't cook.

4:12:31SpeakerYou need a GC or you need access to a lab because you're making all these claims that this is responsible for this or this is due to this and you don't know that. You can't say that until you have a lab that's saying, oh, this is the compound that's in there, you know?

4:12:44HoratioI know, but let's say two weeks ago you said, oh, you don't have a test for THCA and I post the test from the same lab that Tilray uses and And I show that they have a 5% margin of error that says I either have 105% THCA or 97, whatever. And I argue with the scientists every time I tell them, look, I'm going to post it, be accurate.

4:13:05HoratioAnd he's like, well, we'll do some math. I'm like, if this math is just deleting numbers so your test makes sense, this is a piece of shit because the LPs rely on you too. And you're saying talk to a lab, and I'm like, this is a waste of money. I don't believe in the best lab I can believe in, so what the hell do I do as a Canadian?

4:13:23SpeakerYou go for the numbers that are 105%. It's more believable. We need a better lab situation here. I don't know. I got my GC back in Canada now. I brought it back up from the States, so I'm... Maybe going to do something along those lines that people can access. We'll see what happens.

4:13:42HoratioBecause it's frustrating because I know they're the best lab because they didn't get into the business for testing for cannabis. They test water, make it as food.

4:13:51SpeakerTheir lab report sucks and I'm not confident in their terpene.

4:13:57HoratioExactly, and they want like 500 bucks by the time I do cannabinoids, terpenes, and residual solvents. How do you pay a place like that, and they're supposed to be the best? And then you say, like, I should test more, and I'm like, are you crazy? You know what I'm faced with.

4:14:11SpeakerWell, no, listen, I'm not saying, I'm not trying to be critical and saying that you should test more, it's just that, like, you have all this data, all these experiments going on, and you're making suppositions that this is responsible for this, and that is responsible for that, whereas if you had the data... That went along with it. You could actually generate some really good understanding, right? It's just you're missing that puzzle piece right now.

4:14:34HoratioOf course we want a hash news journal where we could actually publish our articles and start to do peer review shit. It's like, without that kind of stuff, I'm lucky. I can throw it at you. I can throw it at a PhD chemist and get a bro science that is the best bro science on the planet. I'm still lucky.

4:14:52SpeakerYeah, Chimera, can I add, stay tuned? My lab, the lab I currently work in, has an HPLC mass spec. We don't do photodiode array. We have mass spec, okay? So I know what I'm talking about. We will have data real soon. Stay tuned, okay?

4:15:11BubblemanAnother thing that we'll have right away is a 420 DAB because in three minutes it's 420 here in Kingston, Jamaica. Billy and Ernie.

4:15:24EtienneGreat to see you, buddy. We're dabbing hard.

4:15:28BubblemanWe are ready to have a 420 dab. It's been a nice long hash church, four hours and 17 minutes so far. Some good conversation, a little bit of passion, a little bit of comedy, a little bit of shit all over the five-star hotel. How about some music, Mark?

4:15:47SpeakerNo, Mark, Rochelle Doan, you're like, you know, I definitely think that you're an incredibly intelligent dude. I just I think that, again, like Horatio, it'll be that much more valuable once you start having some real data behind the coin. Yeah, well, I mean, hey, if I could plug my class that I'm teaching at Clovis University here next week, I mean, this is exactly why, you know, when I came up with the idea of chemistry for hash makers, I wanted to make it clear that it's not a class that teaches how to make hash.

4:16:21SpeakerBecause everyone, we know how to make hash. You guys know how to make hash. I don't need to teach how to that. But it's like not a class to teach how, but it's a class to teach, to better teach why. To better help people understand why things happen. And it's kind of like how to give all these hash makers that are all throughout the world The eyes of a chemist.

4:16:45SpeakerSo how would a chemist approach these things? And again, there's various aspects about the chemistry of the plant itself. There's the way that we extract. There's the way that we analyze. And it all has to do with various fundamentals of chemistry. And as I was putting this thing together, I was like, well, it's going to be a three-day course because there's so much and there's so much Stuff that I want to relay, and there's so much stuff that I want to put into this because, again, I think what Chloe was saying, we want to bring up the level of understanding and the level of intelligence in the whole community and do it not just at these small, you know, little things, but we want to do this everywhere we possibly can.

4:17:30SpeakerIn fact, we're going to be offering a webinar of this so it can reach more people, but the point is that, you know, It's like, if we can educate people on how to understand what the plant can do and how the plant can do everything, I mean, this is just chemistry for hash makers. I would hope that you, Chimera, would do biology for hash makers, and we would have a doctor do medicine for hash makers, and to really understand the fundamentals of what underpins it.

4:18:05BubblemanPlease, please join us for 420, all you hash churches around the world that are watching this beautiful hash church. You can check out the link to Cloverleaf University and find Mr. Sheldon's class that he's teaching in the hash church group as well as a lot of the other things that we spoke about today. And here's a 420 rip.

4:18:28SpeakerHey Mark, why don't you... 420. Dr. Sheldon. Yes, sir. Where is this... Of course you're giving. Chloe. Where's that? Chloe, tell us.

4:18:42ChloeGo ahead. It's at Cloverleaf University, and if you go to cloverleafuniversity.com, you can sign up for either the in-person class or for the webinar, which it's actually more of an online training, not just a webinar. So it's going to be six hours per day for three days, March 11th, 12th, and 13th at the Cloverleaf University campus in Denver.

4:19:05SpeakerIn Denver. So why don't you guys approach one of the testing laboratories in Denver and see if they'll donate some testing and you guys can actually generate some data during the course.

4:19:18ChloeYou know, it's not that we can't do that, but it's just a complicated process to manifest like a few grams, you know, and take it from one place to the testing facility and it's complicated here, but I would like to talk with you further. You should definitely send me an email because I've worked on a lot of these projects with variances and with a lot of edibles companies and infused product manufacturers and I think that, you know, we have seen a huge variance in testing from taking bud samples from the top to the bottom and I would love to discuss All these different things that we've discovered throughout this legislative process.

4:19:52ChloeLet's see what you think.

4:19:54SpeakerWell, and the class will conflict with Half's Church on that Sunday, so we will chime in just to say hello to everybody. We hope so. We don't want to divert the class's attention too much.

4:20:09BubblemanWell, I think I'm going to be in Barcelona that Sunday. So Hash Church will be maybe our apartment that we're staying in or maybe we'll be at the museum or maybe we'll be some other random place. I have no idea.

4:20:21SpeakerThat's awesome. And Mark, if we're having Hash Church and we're having Legends on the 13th, how is that working?

4:20:35BubblemanWell, Hash Church, I'll make it work. I'll totally make it work. I'll have to rearrange the time a little bit and make it so it's a little harder for the North American people to see it live.

4:20:45SpeakerOh, would you change your name to both of them to Hash Legends?

4:20:49BubblemanYeah, that's what I'll do. Hash Legends Church.

4:20:52HoratioSam, are you saying you want Hash Legends live on Hash Church so you can kill two birds with one stone?

4:20:58SpeakerNo, that's not what I said.

4:21:00HoratioOh, no pictures.

4:21:04SpeakerNo pictures.

4:21:21EtienneHey, no flat notes. If you're going to fucking play, play fucking clean. God damn it.

4:21:26SpeakerI know. I did not do that justice. I was trying to remember if I, or see if I remembered No Woman No Cry, right? And also, I want to take a minute to thank Dan for joining us, too.

4:21:37LorenzoThanks to Chloe.

4:21:43EtienneThank you for coming out and explaining what's going on and what you guys are doing there, pardon me, and gals. There in Colorado are doing, it's really key that, you know, everybody here, you know, the challenges that are still happening that, you know, are going forward even though they, you know, people think just because Colorado it's legal that, you know, oh, it's all fun and legal and everything must be fine and dandy, everything must be sunshine and lollipops, but we know in the industry that that's not the case, so thank you for bringing your perspective, it's really helpful.

4:22:12SpeakerYeah, and I want to thank Dan from the Secret Cup too. It was really nice. His computer followed up where he'd be with us to the end. So thank you both. Thank you too, Chloe. Definitely look forward to talking to you at other times.

4:22:25ChloeYes, for sure. Thanks for having me.

4:22:27BubblemanAnd I want to thank everyone for coming out to Hash Church today. Of course, all of our regulars, Johnny B coming and going, and D420K, Horatio Etienne, Chimera, thank you for coming in, Chloe for first time through Mark Scaldone, Todd McCormick as always, and everyone that watches, Chili, Ernie, Tony. Thanks for watching Hash Church everybody. We'll see you next week where we'll still be here live in Kingston, Jamaica and then after that we're going to be in Barcelona.

4:22:57BubblemanSo stay tuned and I hope you guys have a beautiful week. Peace out.