Reflections on Hash Church and Personal Growth

0:01BubblemanWell, hello everybody and welcome to episode 74 of Hash Church. Here we are again. Big week last week. Let me tell you, that was a wonderful, wonderful episode. It was so nice to have all sorts of different Hash people on, being able to talk about the history. You know, just in general, it was a pretty exciting week. Over 20,000 views in the first four episodes. Days of Hash Church being up.

0:28BubblemanI'm about to send out the links, of course. We will send out the links. Let's see what's going on here. We're staying hush-hush. Okay, great. Here we go. Let's send these out. No participants. Let's get that. Bingo. Google Hangouts. Brian Schroeder should know better than to call me at 9 o'clock, Mr. D-mail. It's Hash Church. I can't answer the phone when it's Hash Church, unfortunately. So, let me send these out by email so we can get the skunk man in and Mr. Clark and Mr. Aaron from DNA and the Cuban grower.

1:06BubblemanSend the Facebook link so Etienne and Mark and all of our regulars that we of course missed last week during our special Hash episode. It'll be great to have everyone back together, the families back together. So here we go. Yes, let's keep this shit in check. Indeed, a bunch of people in the chat room. We've got almost 400 viewers here at 9.01, which is nice to see.

1:32BubblemanThat means that people are receiving Hash Church the way we want them to receive it, and that's exciting. So are you there, Mark Scaldone? Or is it just a picture today? I guess it's just a picture. Well, I've got some exciting things here today. I have my original OG mentor, my mentor that I met when I was literally 17 or 18 years old, growing herb, growing mushrooms, looking for help out there in the Bible Belt of Manitoba.

2:03BubblemanVery illegal, very easy to go to prison, very easy to have your shit taken away. And my amazing, wonderful friend, mentor, father figure, Ron Hickey, was there for me when I went into his store. And I asked him information about how to grow tomatoes. He brought me downstairs immediately and said, listen, we're not talking about tomatoes, are we? So why don't we just talk about what we're talking about?

2:31BubblemanCannabis. And he taught me so much. He took me on under his wing. I was able to study with him for years. He took me to countless grow ops throughout the city of Winnipeg, introduced me to a whole other world that I really probably wouldn't have been Entering quite at such a young age, so I've got to give props to Ron. He's just brushing his teeth and getting up, but he'll be coming here and sitting with us, and we'll get him to tell a bunch of stories, which will definitely blow your mind.

3:01BubblemanAnd in the meantime, welcome Mark Scaldone and Todd McCormick, nice and early birds.

3:07Mark ScaldoneGood morning, Mark.

3:09BubblemanYes, how are we doing today? We've got 500 people in the room as of 9.03 a.m. It's...

3:17BubblemanIt's climbing. It's exciting. We're going to have a good church today. Sent out all the links.

3:22Mark ScaldoneHow about that episode 73? Dude, I actually want to shout out to everybody watching. It's been amazing to get the feedback that we've been getting from people that have been paying attention, and I think it's just awesome. You know, when I started doing rallies with Jack Heron 22 years ago,

3:40Mark ScaldoneAdam Old. It was nice to turn people on to information. I felt like one of the people that was turned on to information and it fucking rocks my world. And to be able to pass that on, it really is awesome. And thank you everybody for the feedback. It's been very, very cool. Well, let's be honest.

3:58BubblemanJack... Would be stoked on Hash Church.

4:03Mark ScaldoneOh, you'd be really proud of this. You know, our whole effort was to reach people. And, you know, we used to have rallies and get a few hundred people and think we were doing big shit. You know, 300 people in front of you at the federal building smoking pot in protest feels really good. And, you know, now we've got 1,000 people smoking, you know, in their own 567 smoking in their own little protest as they listen and more and more all the time.

4:26Mark ScaldoneAnd I think information is power, and information is the key to our freedom. So the more we share it, I think the freer we all become. You know, Jack Kerr's book freed the shit out of me. When I read that, I felt proud about the decisions I made to be a cannabis user. 100%.

4:44BubblemanThat was the truth, right? You open this truth up and it's on your side and suddenly you're blown away and amazed. And, you know, a lot of what we talk about and do on Hash Church, I will say, Jack was and is a huge part of all of this. This is the lifeline of Jack and all those before and after him that's pushing this information forward and it's just beautiful to see.

5:08BubblemanWelcome, Horatio. We missed you last week, buddy. How are you doing?

5:13HoratioMorning. Been different. Like, I got into an argument with my wife last night about epilepsy and seizures, and then it's like, grandma, seizures can be brought on by low blood sugar. I'm like, holy shit, I'm hungry. And so, like, before Hashtag today, like, I'm all bloated on protein shakes and goodness so that...

5:34BubblemanThat makes sense that any sort of little tweaked out stress. I mean my friend never had a seizure in his life. He was not epileptic. He had no form of epilepsy. He used to work under grow lights and he worked under them what I would say for longer than most. He never organized to work under green lights. It was always the blasting HPSs and metal halides and T5s blazing in his face.

5:59BubblemanAnd he eventually started having seizures. And it was pretty freaky, you know, lost the license, which is one of the things that a lot of people don't realize when you have a seizure. If you end up at the hospital, and sometimes even if you don't, they're taking your license away. And you could confirm, Horatio, what is it, like three months, a year? Like it's a pretty serious thing.

6:19HoratioOn the East Coast, it's automatically a year here. It's like six months, and you're like, were you driving somewhere tomorrow? Fuck that. You're done. Yeah. I hope you have a wife.

6:30BubblemanYeah, that's incredible for sure. It's definitely like, talk about throwing a monkey wrench into your whole scene. Welcome, D420K. How you doing, brother? I'm doing good, man.

6:43SpeakerGood, good.

6:44BubblemanYeah, dude. You look better?

6:45SpeakerYou look better? Oh, man, not bad. I feel better. I got the shit kicked out of me with that last cold. It was bad.

6:54BubblemanSometimes when you're sitting at the CCHQ and someone comes along and says, hey, can I join you? It would be nice if you could give them a little tester to see if they had like bacteria or a virus in their system.

7:05SpeakerI'll be taking this with me to the CCHQ for any bong ripping.

7:10BubblemanWhat do you need a butt pluck for bong ripping?

7:12SpeakerWow, that's rude.

7:17Mark ScaldoneIt fits in the bong.

7:22BubblemanYou know, I met these guys in Amsterdam. I met them. They were pretty cool guys. They wear it around their neck, usually on a necklace. I thought that was kind of a good way to wear that. But I had to obviously make the classic. Yep, back to Ass Church. Every once in a while, Ass Church sneaks in. I'm sorry to say.

7:38SpeakerWhen we did the Terp Gauntlet and we were describing the flavors... And I was watching it and I'm describing this flavor. It reminds me of pink. It just reminds me of the color pink. And you just look at me and you go, vag terps.

7:56BubblemanHey, sometimes we're a little immature. I'm not going to lie.

7:59SpeakerI fell out of my chair watching that video the other day, man.

8:03BubblemanIt's part of what Hash Church is. We love the seriousness. We love sharing real information, getting down to the science and the biology and the botany of all these things. But at the same time, we don't pretend that we're so... We don't have more information than the average. We're just sharing what we have. We don't think we're some elevated group of people. You can tell by how not serious we take ourselves.

8:27BubblemanWhen you see the... The funny little jokes that happen on Hash Church. It's because we're not taking this so, so seriously. We definitely take the sharing of good, solid information seriously, but at the same time, cannabis is one of those things that really teaches you to have a little bit of fun with yourself. Don't take everything seriously.

8:48SpeakerYes, yes.

8:48BubblemanWelcome, Johnny B. Morning, everybody.

8:52JohnnyHow is everybody today?

8:54BubblemanAw, man, we're doing good, you know? We got almost 800 people watching, we got the chat room blazing. You know, I feel like I'm on a high from episode 73. It was really a fun, sort of packed, you know, amazing to have all the different people that came on. Wonderful to see Arian make an appearance on Hash Church for the first time, and Frenchie making another appearance.

9:19BubblemanWe had Mila come on. We had Skunk Man Sam telling stories. A lot of great hash makers. The Melts, the Trichome Heavy Extract guys, Ken and Jibs. We had the West Coast Concentrate guys, Jimmy and Brett and Adam. And it was just kind of a nice thing to have people that had been, I mean Mila smoking hash for over 50 years, and then have the West Coast Concentrate guys who have been literally making hash For one year.

9:47BubblemanYou see this incredible gap of 50 years and you see all those West Coast guys have as nice of hash as anyone on the planet. And it goes to show you that if you pay attention, focus on those variables and grow great herb, This is not something that is beyond and above all of you people watching and listening right now. If what you want is amazing, incredible extracts, no matter how they're made, whether it's with hydrocarbons or water or mechanical separations or heat, whatever, you can do it.

10:21BubblemanYou can learn it. You can get the information out there and start your path today.

10:27SpeakerI'd like to shout out a great big bong rip. All right. Ball rip. Especially to Johnny and your fucking neck brace, man. You look good, buddy. Look at your little gingered beard and everything going on. Fucking A.

10:46BubblemanSo what? We don't have neck braces? We don't get a shout out? I got to fucking get surgery for you to shout me out?

10:52SpeakerPretty much that was the one. Yeah, that was a special one.

10:57BubblemanI'm going to break my back this week. Don't worry. Don't do that. You might get in a little bit of pain. My camera is coming. Bong rip, world. I'm definitely not going to do that. Yes, okay, I'll have a little bong rip. That's a wonderful way to start the day. And hopefully Ron comes out here soon and shares a little bit of some... He's probably... You know, Ron brought me a cut.

11:18BubblemanAnd he brought me a cut from my teenage years. And this cut I smoked as a teenager. And it was called the bush hash. Really special kind of herb. Almost grew like a bonsai. Very, very small little fan leaves. And just really potent, incredible herb. So that has come back to BC. First time in BC because I was from Manitoba. But I'm definitely looking forward to sharing that out with people and getting the bush hash out to the world.

11:50BubblemanIt's... Thank you for watching.

12:21SpeakerSharing is caring, brother. I'll do another bong rip to that. That's a special shout out. Sharing is caring.

12:34BubblemanThat's wonderful that the pain in your neck is gone, John.

12:37SpeakerAnd the vibrations and all the stuff you're going through for ten solid years.

12:42BubblemanYeah, it's weird. Usually the pain in your neck leaves after a divorce, but yours hung out for quite a while. Ha ha ha! If you're going to break your back, I would suggest going through the motions and

13:19BubblemanMuch like John went through them, there are many, many worse ways for people to go through breaking their back, which generally ends up being extremely addicted to pharmaceutical drugs. So if you do out there have a broken back, have just broken your back, maybe you're going to break your back in the next month or two, I don't know. Try to be inspired by John's story. It's for...

13:43BubblemanYou guys, it's for you people that need an out from this pharmaceutical nightmare that people get sucked into when they get traumatic injuries. Would you not agree, John, that it's extremely hard to make good decisions when you've been traumatically injured?

13:59SpeakerWell, what people don't understand is when you're living with severe chronic pain, you forget a lot. You stumble across things. You lose focus. In the middle of thought, I've done it with you, Locke, and even in the hospice there for a while, I just forgot what I was talking about. I would continue going on. Pain is a different beast that you deal with and every individual will deal with it in a different way.

14:23SpeakerFunny how things work in my life. I had someone come by and see me after seven years and she brought me an envelope that I sealed and gave to her back in 2007 and it was a thick detailed log of me coming off of pharmaceutical drugs and all the amino acids I was taking to hours when I was taking cookies and brownies and tincture drops. It's actually quite an amazing read and I can't wait to put it in because it's It was really a good focus on how it came off of pharmaceutical drugs using the different forms of THC, and this is when I was working, volunteering at Green Cross, and they had the analytical testing, so I know the THC dosing I was taking.

14:57SpeakerSo now, eight years later, being able to get off of all the pharma, and I'm taking no amino acids, too. I'm completely off of everything. I'm not getting up and taking my GABAs or my tyrosines right now because I really want to know exactly how things affected me. I'm not doing bong rips like a fiend anymore, so that's a good thing. And it's definitely what's managing my pain now is just the cannabis and the cream.

15:19SpeakerSo, I mean, overall, it's been... It's been a good ride. It's been a good learning experience and at the same time it's given me a good focus to better understand how pain can affect people because you really don't see it until you look in the eyes because the before and after pictures of my surgery and after you can see it in my eyes and everybody is telling me that and I didn't really see it until I saw the pictures the other day.

15:44SpeakerI mean, it's... Well, you know what?

15:46BubblemanIt's a serious thing, John, and it's something that we didn't talk about. Obviously, we had, over the last couple of years, there have been all sorts of different sort of personal problems that we've had, little arguments, little misunderstandings, and now looking back, it's like you can really see that a lot of that was from your trauma. You were just like kind of spaced out, kind of like...

16:09BubblemanYou know, you do these little things that of course we'd be like, oh, okay, don't worry, it's, you know, it's John, it's fine, and then we'd eventually get built up and be like, fuck, I'm pissed off at John, even though John's a great person and he hasn't done anything wrong. How the fuck does this keep happening? And it's, you do seem very different from that energy since you came out.

16:28BubblemanYou just have a different look on your face, dude. It's pretty fucking amazing.

16:32SpeakerWell, it's that energy behind me that was Thank you so much for being here.

16:53SpeakerA sentence you would say after someone would ask you how you were doing, but you would be in pain. You wouldn't be as happy as you are, but just talking on the phone, how are you, Johnny? Well, I'm fucking fantastic, you said. And it was not an exaggeration by any means. I could tell just by the tone of your voice. It's obvious, man. I'm really happy that this happened for you, buddy.

17:16BubblemanIt shows that sometimes we need Western medicine, that surgery does have its place, that not everything can be cured from smoking a joint or whatnot, that there are Important factors in medicine and that Western medicine does do a lot of good even though it's terrifying and the pharmaceutical industry is absolutely beyond terrifying, almost potentially an evil agenda, yet at the same time you can't believe that all these people are evil.

17:44BubblemanThey must be trying to help people, the surgeons and the nurses and the doctors. I don't believe that they're all there to do harm and to do bad. So it's just nice to see someone come out of a Western medicine experience Feeling much better than feeling much worse.

18:00SpeakerI definitely want to give a shout out to all of the nurses, those registered nurses and the nurses that look after people that are in ICU and intensive care units. It's an amazing people. I'm going to get a little choked up here, but those nurses are amazing human beings. They look after you. You can't move. You can't do nothing. They wipe your ass. They're There's no dignity when you're in a hospital.

18:23SpeakerThere is nothing at all. But, I mean, hey, hats off to the nurses out there that really truly put a lot of dedication into helping people that have been seriously injured or in surgery or coming out or anything like that because those nurses are truly a godsend. I just want to say thanks to all those nurses out there.

18:39Mark ScaldoneBong Rep. That's really cool, man. I fell in love with all my nurses. They were so caring and considerate. The compassion and empathy they had were just phenomenal. Spectacular, really, you know.

18:55BubblemanAs a kid too, as a kid you must have been so like open to that energy as well to really be recognized.

19:02Mark ScaldoneWell, you know one of my favorite nurses when I was in high school, I was friends with her son and he fell off of a wall on his BMX bike, broke his back and became a paraplegic. It was really weird to go from, you know, like when I was a little kid, you know, I was just a little kid. I thought his mom was just, you know, an angel.

19:21Mark ScaldoneAnd then when I was older and found out that that was his mom blown away, and then in the middle of our high school, he fell down, broke his back, and I got to spend more time with his mom and him again. And, you know, it's just people that take care of other people are a special kind of cool. Absolutely.

19:38BubblemanThat is the righteous work for sure, particularly people that are, In really rough shape, you know, if you're helping someone go to the bathroom and changing their clothes and feeding and doing all these things, that's the good work right there. You know, you definitely may not think about people like that until you meet them.

19:57Mark ScaldoneWhen I was a kid, I wanted to grow up and be a pediatrician because I thought I'd be able to help kids, but I think I would fall apart. I mean, I don't think I have the ability to... I have too much empathy. It would be hard to leave that at work and go home and not feel what your patients were going through and not to almost live it 24-7.

20:18Mark ScaldoneIt's amazing. People bash Western medicine, but I'd be fucking dead if I was born 100 years earlier. I wouldn't have made it through any of that disease. I think there's a special balance that, you know, there's a special responsibility that we all have to take care of ourselves. We should learn about health food. We should learn about exercise. We should strive to not have to rely on Western medicine to fix us when we break us, but I'm really glad Western medicine is there trying to understand us.

20:47Mark ScaldoneYeah.

20:48BubblemanYou know it sort of taught us how to look at cannabis in a sense because we see cannabis from recreational to this medical thing and what you were just talking about is the importance of preventative and once people really start understanding the preventative nature of cannabis I hope that it brings them more into the diet and the yoga or at least just keeping your flow and your blood moving and exercise moving, whatever it is, if it's right for you.

21:12Mark ScaldoneIn all honesty, dude, it was Jack's chapter on nutrition. I kind of had a hard time really believing that hemp was a perfect protein and it had all these EFAs and perfect balance. The statements he made were over the top, but then when I read fats that heal, fats that kill, and boudoirs, I've been researching Dr. Udo Rasmus and Dr. Roberta Hamilton and I realized that not only was he right, he didn't even understand how beneficial a balance of essential fatty acids were in our diet or getting complete proteins.

21:44Mark ScaldoneNow that we as humanity have been suffering through so many empty calories that are handed to us in our fast food, in our soft drinks. Thank you for watching.

22:13Mark ScaldoneBut we fucking slip years and we don't give our bodies the essential fatty acids or the gamma linoleic acid or the complex protein structures that we really need to operate correctly. And when we start feeding ourselves the motor oil and the radiated fluid that we need to get through the desert, the jack is a lot easier.

22:32BubblemanIt becomes miraculous. And this is one of the reasons when I opened my restaurant inside the melting point, which was my gallery-vapor bar in early 2000s, I thought that Canvas users were worth more than a donut, a bag of chips, and a Coca-Cola, so I refused to sell that stuff. In fact, what I did was I opened a super high integrity, super beyond low profit, 100% organic, vegan, macrobiotic, meaning it was grown within 100 miles of the store.

23:02BubblemanIt was never put on jet airplanes and flown from Hawaii. So we sold macrobiotic, vegan, organic, raw food and the cafe itself was called The Living Source. And I'm telling you, if you've never had raw food, I can tell you that when it's prepared properly with the right food, you get Hi off of it. You literally are like high from this food. It is beyond energetic. The first time I ever had this experience, I was actually flying to Switzerland to meet a friend up in Volhusen up in the north near Zurich.

23:33BubblemanAnd he had a big giant ganja field there. It was the size of multiple football fields. I think it was one of the biggest ones in Switzerland at the time. This was probably, you know, 2001 or something. And I went to visit him and he had this native guy living on his property who was a real out there kind of character. His name was Richard, Richard's son.

23:53BubblemanAnd Richard was into crystals and into raw food. He'd been a raw foodist for over 25 years when I met him. And so I got off this plane, super jet lagged in Switzerland. I was like, okay, like, Kind of middle of the night type thing. And he's like, oh, let me make you a juice, he says. Let me make you a juice. So he starts making me this juice.

24:11BubblemanWell, it takes him, I don't know, half an hour at least to make this juice. He's cutting up onions and beets and all sorts of weird fucking shit. I'm like, I've never put onions in juice before. He makes this unbelievable juice, and then he gives it to me. I take a sip of it, and it is for sure potentially... It probably wasn't a bad tasting thing, but I was so not used to the live food that it shocked my senses.

24:36BubblemanAnd it was kind of very bitter and strong, and I was just like, oh my god, that's just too much. And he was just like, after making it for half an hour, he lays this on me. He says, well, if you don't drink it in the next minute or two, you might as well throw it in the sink. So not only was he giving me this terrible tasting drink, he was now enforcing me to chug-a-lug it while he stood and watched me.

24:57BubblemanSo I did, and man, it was up there with taking a psychedelic compound. Was I hallucinating? No. But was my body completely feeding off of the live food that he just pushed into my body? It was in-fucking-credible and really opened my eyes to the power. I mean, even mainstream doctors here in Canada will tell you when you go and they tell you that you have cancer. A big percentage of the Canadian cancer specialists, the oncologists will tell you, you need to eat a raw food diet.

25:28BubblemanAnd they've been doing that since the like 80s or 90s, which is incredible to me that doctors tell you that only if you get cancer.

25:40Mark ScaldoneIt to me is amazing that people don't get motivated to take care of themselves until they've lost their health. And it's sad. I'm really glad in a way that I was given cancer at such a young age because it gave me such an appreciation for every breath I took and for every moment I got on this planet. And You know, it also motivated me to not, you know, get my ass back into the cancer ward.

26:03Mark ScaldoneYou know, so, you know, vegetarianism, martial arts, yoga, it's all extensions of me just trying to improve myself, balance myself, and be responsible for myself in all honesty.

26:14SpeakerIt's the first thing I did when I got out of surgery. I got home. I'm taking Vagabond shakes with silica. I'm eating so healthy. My diet is key to my recovery. I'm using my creams. I'm using hemp protein powders. So that's very much part of my recovery, too, is eating extremely healthy. I can't exercise right now, but does that echo what you're saying, Todd? Is eating all those proper vitamins and amino acids and taking care of your body because the body doesn't heal unless you're helping it heal.

26:44SpeakerAnd it doesn't help heal eating McDonald's, that's for sure.

26:47BubblemanAnd there's an agenda out there to keep you sick. You know, someone just mentioned the good old fluoride in water and toothpaste. There's all sorts of low quality foods. There's all sorts of people out there that are obsessed with having the cleanest, strongest, most beautifully, perfectly made concentrates. And then they literally go to McDonald's or the Fatburger or the In-N-Out and they just push this toxic food into their faces which is, it's shocking to say the least.

27:16BubblemanAnd now I'm not, like for me, I am pro a conscious diet. I don't try to convince people that they need to be a vegan or a vegetarian or a fucking paleo whatever. I just tell people eat a conscious diet. You should be okay. I do have meat eater friends who don't eat grain fed hormone shot up beef. They eat like grass fed, steroid free, antibiotic free, all these different little things can definitely make huge improvements on how you feel.

27:45BubblemanI mean, It's eat good food, man. Eat good food. It's worth it. Full melt has taught me one thing about life. I want full melt, which is, you know, a metaphor for great quality. I want full melt everything. I want full melt experiences and full melt travel and full melt friends. You know, every once in a while a little piece of the 160 will get into the 73 like last episode, but we get rid of that shit pretty quick.

28:13BubblemanYou know? Karen's on his tractor there.

28:17Mark ScaldoneYou know, we almost should do a show on hemp seed oil, you know, because I know everybody's tripping on the oil, the shatter, the wax, and, you know, bubble this and bubble that. But truthfully, it's cannabis's other oil, which is hemp seed oil, which is available at every health food store in the country right now that is really probably the most beneficial thing you could start putting in your body every single solid day.

28:41Mark ScaldoneBecause if you start just taking hemp nut, which is dehulled hemp seed, And sprinkling it on whatever it is you're eating, every meal like it's salt and pepper, you will boost the nutrition in every bite of your food and it will only be good for you.

28:54BubblemanIt's always in my fridge, that's for sure. I eat hemp every day as well as phytocannabinoid saturated coconut oil that I usually like to take a little. Spoonful in the morning and a spoonful at night. A spoonful of medicine.

29:09SpeakerYes. I've been putting fresh bud into my smoothies every morning. Just the bud because I have a freezer full of fresh weed. I'm making a smoothie every morning and it's just been my thing lately. I just throw a bud in there. A little bit of kale, a little bit of weed.

29:23BubblemanThat's awesome, dude.

29:25SpeakerRemember us putting dry sift on our pizza? Oh, if I was making pizza, I still have the number three sift for sprinkling on pizza. That's like We got certain SIFT separations. Fourth pizza now.

29:38BubblemanI know. People call me. They're like, have you seen Johnny B's SIFT pizza? I'm like, dude, I made Johnny B's first SIFT pizza for him.

29:47SpeakerWe did the SIFT pizza. I remember making them on the pita breads. That was awesome.

29:52BubblemanOh, yeah. We filmed it. We made a great video, and then we got high eating pizza.

29:57SpeakerDid we ever get high? Because that was good SIFT.

30:00BubblemanWell, I'll tell you, you know what was inspired, really who inspired us by that was the, what was the pizza place called again? Megabyte. No. Megafilm. So Mega Ill was a pizza place in the city and they allowed, you could go in and get ganja pizza, like oil pizza, or your dessert could be like also medicated. And, you know, we went there, we filmed a great video, we got to puff in the place, and while we were sitting there, John ended up being on the news, which was also a part of the video.

30:31BubblemanIt was pretty trippy. I like that day. You know, that place kind of changed right away and went downhill fast. But, man, for that short period that we got to go, it was something pretty special. I'd like to see more. I love the idea of restaurants more normalizing the use of cannabis. I understand that we're never going to get to a point where you're lighting and burning joints and they're all in the air, obviously.

30:54BubblemanBut the nicer that the concentrates are getting, the low temp down. What are you talking about, bro? You never ate with me in Amsterdam? I'm talking about mainstream. Of course. That's one. That's one. Yeah, that's one restaurant in the world, Todd.

31:11Mark ScaldoneShwagon was the Indian restaurant, lead supply. We used to burn all the time. That's two out of the two. The best moment of my life was I was at the back table with like eight people, and we were smoking our stuff, and these looked like English people smoking tobacco, sitting closer to the door, complained. And the waiter came over. I know it. Dude, I couldn't believe it though.

31:33Mark ScaldoneThe waiter came over and said, all those people complained. I said, oh, I'll put it out. He said, no, let me get the owner. And I was like, okay, wait a minute. So the owner comes out, comes to me, and he says, don't put anything out. I will deal with it. Goes over to them that are smoking tobacco and says, would you like to sit closer to the door?

31:52Mark ScaldoneAnd they were like, no, why would we want to sit close to the door? He says, so you won't have to smell their cannabis. And they were like, we want them to put it out. And he was like, do you want to put out your tobacco because they'll have to put out their cannabis? And they were like, no. And he goes, well, then don't be hypocrites in my restaurant.

32:09Mark ScaldoneIf you don't like it, this will be your last meal. And I was like, whoa, dude, came back over and said, please enjoy your very good customers. Don't let them ruin your good energy.

32:20BubblemanYeah, so I have a back story to that. This is Simone that Todd is talking about. He's a good friend of mine. You know him? Of course. That's one of Dave and Rob's friends for 35 years.

32:31Mark ScaldoneNo, I thought the Lebanese restaurant was Swaggett right around lead supplying. Yeah, it was the Indian restaurant in the back of when, you know, you know where Bulldog is, you go around, you go around.

32:41BubblemanYeah, no, I was thinking Simone, because Simone has actually kicked tobacco smokers who've complained out of his restaurant. That's the Legends restaurant. That's the Lebanese restaurant. So anyway, to take it back, what I was actually talking about, yes, okay, there are two restaurants in the world that you can smoke in. I'm talking about a mainstream experience like many restaurants rather than just one in one small city in the world.

33:05BubblemanLike in many different places, and this place gave view of that. Rather than, you know, to normalize alcohol, which is just such a stain and a tear on the social fabric, it causes... So many problems. People don't understand this, but for me, I grew up with my mother working at 911 in a fairly rough city. So she always came home with these stories. And as I grew up, I asked her, what is the percentage of calls that are alcohol-related?

33:33BubblemanAnd she would be like 80% or 90% could be alcohol-related if a woman is getting beat up, if a child is getting beat up. If it's a highway traffic accident, if it's an assault, if it's a... So many different things are alcohol related and they push that shit in every restaurant that you go to and it just would be nice to see it switch a little and see more of a... You know, like I said, I can't picture smoking, even in Amsterdam you can't really smoke anymore, like even like to try and smoke cigarettes inside a building is like...

34:07BubblemanYou'll have people all over you. They don't allow it anymore. These are times gone past now. So it would be interesting to see how it comes around.

34:16SpeakerIn most restaurants that we eat in, you walk into the restaurant and there's a bar right there. I mean, it's there to serve alcohol, and typically the waitress, the first thing she asks when she walks up to your table, what would you like to drink? Wouldn't it be great for her to walk up to the table and say, What would you like to dab today, folks?

34:39BubblemanOr even better, Mark. She comes up and she says, hello, gentlemen. Today we have a wonderful appetite-inducing phytocannabinoid concentrate you're going to love. It's beautiful. It tastes like a dessert. It's on the shelf. I'm sending it out right now. If you want to go to the menu and pick your pipe, I will bring that out as well. It would just be a nice way to start a meal.

34:57BubblemanI know it's utopian. It's a little ridiculous, but we love our cannabis.

35:04SpeakerAnd it was said here on House Church, it's going to happen. Let it be done. Someone come up with the first, come on, we've got to make it happen.

35:12HoratioIsn't it like that for everybody? Because when you mentioned that, I was like, wait a minute, I remember that one restaurant that let me smoke. Until the day they were like, what the fuck are you doing? You better put hash in this or get the fuck out of here. Somebody put weed in the hookah pipe and then they shut down the whole restaurant. No.

35:30BubblemanWell, I'll tell you, the only place that's ever happened to me in my life, other than Amsterdam, was in Berlin, Germany, and we were in a five-star restaurant. It was nice. And I was with my friend Tim. Rest in peace, Tim. Tim passed away a few months after I met him in a car accident driving from Amsterdam to Germany. So we give a shout out to Tim whenever we mention him.

35:51BubblemanBut Tim was sitting there at the restaurant. He was very young. He was probably only 21 or 22 years old. And I finished and I was like, man, wouldn't it be amazing if we could puff in here? And he was like, well, I'll ask the waiter. And I was like, Like from everything I knew about Germany, Germany was not cool with puffing anywhere. And so this was my first trip to Berlin, however, and I really didn't realize what a cool fucking city Berlin is.

36:16BubblemanBecause this is also not an underground restaurant, it's not a cannabis type restaurant, it's not alternative. It is as main fucking stream as a five star restaurant could be. And the waiter said, he came over and he said, what are you going to smoke? And my friend Tim, they were talking in German, he told me afterwards, he's just like some hashish. And he looked around the restaurant and he said, you know what?

36:38BubblemanIt should be fine. There's not that many people. Yeah, that's fine. And this was back when people did smoke cigarettes in restaurants still as well. So we ended up smoking out of an apple pipe. We made a pipe out of an apple that the guy brought from the kitchen and we smoked right there in this German five-star restaurant. And it was definitely mind-blowing. I mean, that was probably in 2000.

37:01BubblemanI don't know. When was the big cannabis show in Berlin last, Todd? Did you ever go to the Berlin one?

37:07Mark ScaldoneSee, I'd be, no, I didn't go to the, the first one I went to was actually in Frankfurt in 95, was the, and then in September of 96 was a,

37:16Mark ScaldoneCannabisness, if you remember it.

37:18BubblemanYeah, I used to go to Cannabisness starting in Dortmund, which I can't remember what my first year was. It was the year Volcano released the Volcano because I met them that year.

37:27Mark ScaldoneThat would have been like 97.

37:29BubblemanYeah, him and Marcus and his daughter. Very cool event. I remember that was the first time I had seen the bus that they had parked out at the back. It was a two-story bus and they had a DJ on top of the bus. And it was the safe place to smoke, even though I had been smoking at my booth the entire event. I brought some Renee bubble.

37:51BubblemanYes, it was damn fine. When are we going to get reciprocity around the world? When are we going to be able to Get into a country with our stash. Just be able to bring just a little bit. Not that you don't want to taste what the country has to offer, but you want to bring a little for the friends that are there and be like, here, this is kind of what we have.

38:14BubblemanLet's see what you guys got.

38:16Mark ScaldoneYou know what we've been talking about is food pairing. So like strawberries and OG Kush dabs are pretty sweet. Yep. And this is something I think should be explored more. I mean, we've paired wine with food for a long time. You know, what about the terpenes in our favorite flowers?

38:33BubblemanWell, I'll tell you, dude, when I did the terpene gauntlet, it really felt like food pairing. It felt like a wine event, but instead of being like wasted at the end of your tasting, you're actually really just kind of like reeling. The terpene high is so like energetic and like... That it's just a nice experience. It's not the same as when I sit with a group of people and I smoke and I smoke and I smoke and I smoke and I smoke.

38:59BubblemanWhat happens is they all inevitably end up like this. And so the terpenes seem to take that away. I wish Darren was in the room because he did the gauntlet with me.

39:10Mark ScaldoneIt's early nights for the stoner crowd is what you're saying. Early nights.

39:14BubblemanI'll tell you something, Todd. I was a big joint smoker like you. I loved smoking big 3, 4, 5 gram joints. I smoked many, many of them in a day. And I loved it. I loved the rolling smell on my fingers, the breaking up of the bud, the holding of it, the smoking of it. All of it was just a great experience. However, I can't believe you gave it up.

39:35BubblemanI know. It's like a weed vegan. I ruined it for myself, dude. I told someone the other day, imagine like a meal, your favorite meal that you love, cooked to perfection, burnt. That's what weed is for me. It's like the beautiful taste of the hit. So now that I have Terp's

40:22SpeakerAnd all of these good concentrates. It is extremely hard. If someone comes over with a joint, I'll smoke it, but yeah, I'm not like rolling fatties anymore, that's for sure. This is the purest.

40:35Mark ScaldoneI feel as if

40:39Mark ScaldoneThat I, I, there's something about the cannabis, the terpenes that I just love and I don't get out of dabs per se the same way I get out of a joint. And it's a lower, it's like, you know, now that I dab and stuff, it's like obviously like dab light at best smoking a joint. I mean, how many milligrams of THC can I really get out of even a two gram joint compared to a hefty glob from a friend like, you know, or from a slab, I should say.

41:07Mark ScaldoneFrom a slab. It's true.

41:12BubblemanWe got a nice tight little committee. I sent out the link to a lot of people today, but I guess it's early morning on Sunday.

41:19SpeakerI had a puff of joint with Todd. He's like, okay, you know what? I got one here. It's not like I don't smoke everything.

41:30Mark ScaldoneI like wax. I like water hash. I like all that.

41:36BubblemanI was bummed when I ruined smartphone joints for myself, just to explain this, because I missed hanging out with all my friends, rolling joints and passing them around. When I started making Full Metal Bubble, I would give my friends a rip through the pipe, and they would literally be, like, just destroyed. And so, even my wife was kind of like, so what is that, fun? Like, you just sit around and destroy everyone?

41:59BubblemanThey turn into fucking zombies, they don't talk, they can't move. Like it seems like that's kind of like, and I even called it the end of the session. It was like, man, bubble killed the session. And that only happened for a short period of time. People eventually got out of that cloud a little bit, but it's still by no means can you really sit around and like with everyone.

42:19BubblemanNow there's always your core group of hardcore people that smoke ridiculous amounts just like you that can sit and puff and puff and puff and puff and not pass out or turn into a zombie. But the majority of the people at vapor lounges and in these sort of communities, you can put to bed with dabs. You can just be like, hey, is it going to be one?

42:38BubblemanIs it going to be two? Look, everyone's got a number. I am going to put you to bed. And it's just the terpenes seem to bring back the session, to bring back the, hey, we can actually smoke a bunch of these. It's also changing how we smoke. I will say this, that when I was taking a big dab, I find it now to be less... Thank you for watching.

43:22BubblemanMicrodabs dipped in terps. The feeling, it's nice and it doesn't just overwhelm and blow the back of their head off. If you want that, just keep taking a few more, you know, or by all means take a big one dipped in terps. But I do have a firm appreciation for the micro dab dipped in terps. Gotta like it. Hopefully Tony shows up here today and we can...

43:45SpeakerWell, I'm dealing with someone who has a vomiting problem, and her in particular, the flowers seem to help her more than anything that concentrates or anything else, like that full profile. The balm helps her with her condition. Otherwise, I've hit her with everything else, but I always go back to smoking the balm because that's what's helping her more than anything else. So, I mean, I guess the joint gives you everything too, right?

44:14BubblemanThat's it. Michael was asking, but is it healthy to take dabs all day? Well, you know, I haven't felt any health ramifications at this point. My lungs are very strong. I'm still healthy. I'm able to do sports. I can go snowboarding or manipulate a 400-pound sled, go dirt biking for hours through the bush. I have the ability to keep up with professional mountain bikers, skiers, snowboarders, snowmobilers.

44:40BubblemanI am not a professional by any means. But I can keep up with them, and I puff all day while I do.

44:50SpeakerAnd you're in your 40s, and you hang out with guys that are in their 20s.

44:54BubblemanOh yeah, all these guys are in their 20s, absolutely. Right off the bat, most of them are in their 20s.

44:59SpeakerLet's not forget that if anybody is in their 20s, you're in your 40s. And you all puff them too.

45:07BubblemanYummy, yummy, yummy.

45:13BubblemanOh my goodness. Well, I really hope Ron comes and tells some stories. He's been MIA here for a little bit.

45:20SpeakerHe's probably outside watering or working on his plants.

45:22BubblemanOh, guaranteed. He's down in the fence working on the bush ash.

45:27Mark ScaldoneWas that tough? Rob just joined me and I didn't think, I thought I was muted and I started talking and I apologize for interrupting you guys, but we're going to have Rob Clark on in a little while. And I was just communicating about that to him. I apologize for the breaking.

45:46SpeakerAm I still echoing?

45:48Mark ScaldoneAm I echoing? We just smoke weed and talk and nobody gets mad at each other about being totally stoned. Everybody can just laugh. Thank you.

45:59BubblemanYeah, Brett Maverick's just saying snowboarding and skiing is a workout though, can't deny that. And I would just like to add, when I'm with these guys, forget about snowboarding and skiing. It's meet up early in a parking lot, unload the sled, very cold weather, drive for an hour plus into the back country where hopefully they've built a kicker or if it's just with some buddies then it's just, you know, go find the fun.

46:23BubblemanIt takes so much energy just to get to the zone where you're going to spend your day that new people that you bring are often shocked because they've spent 80% of their energy to get to the zone and now we stay there for 4 or 5 or 6 hours so you got your 20% and once you stick that sled in the snow I'll tell you. I noticed that as well Michael that Todd's audio came in crackly when When he last spoke, hopefully we'll get that sorted out and get it figured.

46:58BubblemanAm I echoey? Can you hear me?

47:00SpeakerI can hear you perfectly, and I love the Jerry hat. Thank you. Thank you. All right. I just want to make sure I'm not echoey.

47:07BubblemanNo, you're good. Just reading the chat, trying to keep up. We've got a quiet conversation going, so sometimes it's nice to focus on the chat and see if they want to direct us in any way or they have specific questions. People are talking about anxiety and depression. Someone did absolutely ask me recently about anxiety and depression and treating it with CBD. I personally don't know many people that use pure CBD, so I have a hard time when someone asks me about using CBD because I think what they're really talking about is a cultivar that is Perhaps high or has a certain percentage of CBD in it.

47:48BubblemanI don't know why we call it CBD. I think it's a misnomer at best. I think we should call it what it is, like a high profile CBD cultivar. It confuses me. But someone did ask about the uses of CBD to quell anxiety and depression. And I don't know if anyone in the room has information on ever doing that, whether it be a high CBD cultivar or using a pure CBD compound.

48:13BubblemanI don't know personally. Someone's asking me best strain you know of for anxiety. That's a tough one because everyone's anxiety is rooted a little bit differently. Some people are induced into anxiety when they smoke certain narrow leaf drug cultivars. When they smoke those, they can get a racy heart and feel a little bit. For me, those sativas soothe me. I love the racy heart. I love the like...

48:41BubblemanThat's like soothing to me, but to other people it creates anxiety. And then other people get anxiety from the heavy, heavy Indicas where you just give them a huge blast of some OG Kush and they're just like, they're so stoned that they're overwhelmed and they're firing, every receptor is just like maxed out. And I usually can see both of those be eliminated with a nice quiet conversation and maybe like an orange...

49:08BubblemanOr a little bit of some type of a juice with sugar in it to just bring that person back to a nice even feeling. It's mostly just a reaction of feeling something in your body and then reacting to that feeling with fear. It's the classic, I'm having a heart attack. I think I'm having a heart attack. It's like, dude, you're not having a fucking heart attack. You know?

49:28BubblemanCome on.

49:29SpeakerI can kind of weigh in a little bit about I've dealt with... One of my best friends, he has severe anxiety and a lot of strains don't work for him. He's always geared towards more of a dominant indicas. I find him the foodier smelling weeds he doesn't like. It increases more anxiety for him. He likes the more of the mercine kind of, Thank you so much for joining us today.

49:52SpeakerWe'll be right back.

50:16SpeakerReally, it's about just being more calmer and taking a better look at what you're eating, of course. Strains play a key role. I find the sativa more ones gave me more anxiety, so that's why I'm always being a cush guy. Just that's what works for me. These are kind of the key things that... You know, even like L-tyrosine to help balance dopamine. These are key little amino acids along with converted forms of THC that play a key role in my recovery and dealing with my anxiety and depression.

50:47SpeakerRight.

50:48BubblemanExcellent. I just spaced out and put Darren, because it was his picture. I don't like seeing the pictures when it gets recorded. He took his camera off, so I put him out of the broadcast, and then he came back, and I forgot he was out of the broadcast. So come on back, D420K. We're waiting for you. We've got a small little room here as it is.

51:09HoratioI have to say, when it comes to the anxiety, because a lot of people come up and they're like, oh, which strain will be good for this and that? It's in the terps. It's obviously in the terps. And when you can go through and smell the terps raw and intuit that feeling, you can tell how many racy terps will blow somebody out of a certain type. And I find anything that's in that Bubba Kush train wreck variety, that grouping under that mother dominant plant, seem to...

51:40HoratioWhen the concentrate is right, work for people, it's really a matter of just finding them terp profiles that don't contain the terps that set them off. Then these terps help calm them down. It's just these strains are good for avoiding this citrus terp which gives you anxiety, this terp in OG that makes you shit your pants. I know those anxiety terps and I love them and I can smell them and I know they're coming without having to take a dab.

52:05HoratioAnd a lot of people just have to spend more time smelling the strains before buying them because they buy things based on names and then they go home and have a heart attack over anxiety. It seems to be a real problem in cannabis users is they still don't know which terps lead them in which emotional directions.

52:23BubblemanWell, let's keep in mind people have only really been using the word terpene, the majority of this community, for a very short, short time. Most people have just learned about these compounds and it's obviously a lot of people are now focused on it and I'm sure that the more and more people that focus on it and as labs get involved, I was speaking with a guy recently from Israel.

52:48BubblemanAnd he's doing terpene work. He said that he had been working originally with Raphael Meshulam, very interesting fellow, had a couple of Skype conversations with him and actually told him that I would invite him into Hash Church sometime if he wanted to come in and, you know, talk about what's going on in Israel with the different, there's a couple of groups that are doing different things there and, yeah, it's nice to see that different parts of the world are focused on these, you know, I see it as, Like this, it's the US or UN, whatever you want to call it, this governing body that made it illegal and Thank you for joining us.

53:51BubblemanSo it's interesting to see that I guess slowly but surely we're just going to stop listening to these rules until they sink down into the ground.

54:00SpeakerUnited Nations is what you're talking about and the treaties involved with the 1961 United Convention treaties where it can be used for medical purposes or some scientific research.

54:11BubblemanAnd industrial. That's how we got hemp growing. There's an industrial... Part of that too, that's correct. Yeah, but I mean when I say the U.S. or the U.N., it's like do you think that the U.N. just decided that on their own or the U.S. decided let's just make all these countries sign this and we'll make them do it through the body that is the U.N.? Because it is the U.S. that's the controlling power in all of this.

54:36BubblemanIf they just decide to do it, You know, that's why countries like Jamaica and other countries surrounding Puerto Rico now, they're looking at this going, well, you guys are doing it. If you guys can do it, come on. Like, this is going to be helpful for our citizens and our country as well.

54:51SpeakerIt's going to be interesting for the UN glass that will be happening in New York on the 19th, 20th, and 21st of April, where they're going to re... It's on the world drug problem. They're reclassifying what's happening with drugs in the world, and that's... The United Nations is a joke. The United Nations was basically formed after World War II so the victors can basically dominate the rest of the world.

55:25SpeakerAnd whose position is it for them to be telling individual countries, some of which don't even participate, What they can or cannot do. It's not a position for a country to legislate or to basically take any rules from the UN. In fact, if I remember correctly, the United States hasn't even paid their UN dues over the last several years. So the UN is a completely dysfunctional organization and if it's supposed to be actually around to prevent wars, They're really not doing very good because there's wars constantly.

56:00SpeakerSo the United Nations is just a puppet organization that's basically protecting big business interests global and worldwide. It has nothing to do with protecting the people.

56:15BubblemanThere you go. Yeah, exactly. Turp dip.

56:22SpeakerI'll say it before, I'll say it again. You know, there's no way that a government or any ruling body should keep a floral or herbal medicine away from their population. It should not only be allowed, it should be encouraged before taking any pharmaceutical drugs. This should be the first thing you take.

56:43SpeakerShould be encouraged, not outlawed. Turp dip. Turp dip, ball rip. I'm going for the turp dip and ball ripping.

56:52BubblemanThere we go.

56:56Etienne FontanYeah.

56:57BubblemanThe Sunset KB.

57:01Mark ScaldoneNever read these labels, ever.

57:03BubblemanI've never gotten my camera to focus on the label properly, but... Well, it'll be interesting.

57:08SpeakerI think, like I said, this will be the year that we're 420. Hopefully, cats will be legalized in 2016, so we'll see what happens here in Canada and different parts of the world, because we are looking at... Hey, it's mainstream. It's in media. It's in every social media, everybody's feed. It's in the front lines. It's being talked about internationally, worldwide. It's definitely, it's the next economy for the world.

57:35SpeakerIt's changing everything when we really get into it. Like, it's not just Canada and the U.S. It's every country is looking at it as some kind of a way of being able to save their third world countries or putting some kind of an economy into the world again, which is shit. Don't have to mine it from the earth, we can grow it from the ground, right? Bong rip!

57:57SpeakerI didn't hear it. Terp dip? Bong rip! Bubble dip! Fuck yeah! Triple dip! Yeah!

58:10SpeakerI was so sick, I haven't even made another vine since I left Vancouver. I've been so busy at home, being near dead in bed. Holy. I was on some strong antibiotics that I couldn't go out in the sun, they told me. I had to stay out of the sun. Burned. What did you have? Yeah, Mark, please, yeah.

58:33BubblemanHold on, I'll grab the bottle and read it out. Michael's asking if we should put more focus on stashing good hash and aging it for years. Well, I think that's a personal issue. If you feel like you want to do that and you have enough hash, it's a great thing to put a little away and, you know, if you love a certain hash and you want to smoke it all now, I mean, that's always fun as well and everything in between, really.

58:59BubblemanCan we talk genetic mapping by labs and the patenting of cultivars? I heard hearsay that Steve D'Angelo and Steve Pell are going to jack genetic strains.

59:08SpeakerMark, the pill I was taking...

59:14SpeakerYeah. We're called Doxycyline, Doxycyline. All right. Doxycyline. Okay. So these are potent aminoglycoside antibiotics. Did you have a digestive thing or was it a respiratory thing? Respiratory. My lungs were, I've had pneumonia probably 10 times in my life, and when I get sick, because I'm type 2 diabetic as well, I get really, really sick, and I got a bad lung infection. It was just, It was more than a bronchial infection and just a light pneumonia is what the doctor told me.

59:46SpeakerSo he gave me those. Yeah, a lung infection can really, really be very, very compromising, especially, again, if you rely on intake of cannabis because you can get sores down there. And it's just something you have to pay attention to. If you feel that pain when you cough, certainly go in and see your doctor. You know, most common colds aren't bacterial, but it sounds like what you had was some sort of bacterial infection because in most cases, antibiotics are completely ineffective against most of the typical things that cause the common cold, which in most cases are viruses and not bacterial.

1:00:29SpeakerBut when it is bacterial, when you see that green, thick mucus, you need to get an antibiotic immediately, and doxycylone is one of them. Yeah, it helped. I didn't even toke for seven days. I didn't even have a toke, and I'm only doing very low temp, like 525, 530 on my denail just for low temperature dabs so it's not so kicking in my lungs. But my lungs feel really good now.

1:00:57SpeakerI'm doing a lot better. I don't go out and stress it out or nothing. When I'm sick, I just take care of it. Yeah, your lungs are very, very important to your overall vascular well-being, and think of your lungs as about the size of your hands, and you're pulling all this air and sometimes toxins into your lungs. It's amazing that they do as good a job as they do to keep you alive.

1:01:22SpeakerThey help you breathe. Yeah, they turn your blood red, man.

1:01:27BubblemanMan, it's hard to breathe without lungs, man, I'll tell you. Yeah.

1:01:33BubblemanBack in 2002, I did a whole three months without lungs. Never again.

1:01:37SpeakerWhen are you taking off, Mark?

1:01:42BubblemanWell, I'm going to take off next week. I'm going to head down to Jamaica and get our project all sort of organized and have a couple of other partners that are heading down there. And then I'll be there for a couple of weeks. And then I'm going to go to Spanibus in March. I'm going to go to Barcelona. And hopefully we're going to have Legends of Hash dinner in Barcelona and we're hoping as well to have another evening which would be kind of like a terpene testing evening where there was a gauntlet available and tickets could be purchased in a nice venue and some food and just have that amazing terpene experience.

1:02:21SpeakerRight on.

1:02:22BubblemanYeah, I'm pretty excited about it all really. Obviously we've been waiting on Jamaica for quite some time and Spain comes around but once a year and since Amsterdam's been cancelled, Spain is really a very unique opportunity to see the people or at least a good chunk of the people that I would have been seeing in Amsterdam but am no longer seeing because of course, you know, the You know, say what you want about the High Times Cannabis Cup, but no one else has ever been able to bring a group of people like that to Amsterdam with the 420 Cup, with any of these other events that are thrown, the High Life, La Fiera.

1:02:59BubblemanThey don't bring the same level and group of people from all over the world that the High Times Cannabis Cup did, so got to give them a shout out for that. And shout out to Mr. Church. How are you doing, Jeff?

1:03:14JohnnyDoing well. Good morning, everybody. Morning, Jeff.

1:03:18SpeakerMorning. Bon rip. Rip, rip. Morning, bon rip.

1:03:24JohnnyRising rip.

1:03:26SpeakerRip, rip. What is the dates of Spanibus, Mark? Do you know? Does anybody know the dates?

1:03:32BubblemanEveryone keeps asking me, but I just say Google Spanibus 2016 because I hate it. For me, it's between the 9th and the 13th, but it's only like three or four of those actual days, and I don't know if it's 10, 11, 12, or 11, 12, 13. I'm not exactly sure, but if you Google Spanibus 2016, it's the first thing that comes up. Oh, there we go. Mark.

1:03:56Bubbleman17th to 14th, someone says, but I would still Google it, personally.

1:04:02BubblemanEspecially when it comes to those events. You don't want to be missing even one day if you're flying all the way across to Europe, which we did last year. I couldn't get in last year. My buddy didn't have my name written down, so when I went to the thing, I was like, hey, what's up? I'm here, and they were like, oh, we don't have your name, and I had all this shit with me and I was just like decided to say fuck it and I just, I don't even know who I was with but we didn't go to Spanibus that day.

1:04:25BubblemanWe ended up cruising around and just having a great time. Were you with me Jeff?

1:04:32JohnnyYeah, I was definitely hanging out with you on that first evening when you got there for sure.

1:04:36BubblemanYeah, we couldn't get in. Were you there when we couldn't get in?

1:04:40JohnnyYeah, well, I actually went the first day. And so I saw you later on that afternoon. You were like, yeah, you know, we couldn't get into Spanibus, so we're just hanging out at HQs where I ran into you.

1:04:51BubblemanThat was so random. People were like, time out. You couldn't get into Spanibus? I was like, no, I couldn't get into Spanibus. And they were just like, that's just fucked. I was like, yeah. I was like Paul McCartney at what's-his-face's party recently. Some hip-hop artist had a party. After the Grammys, and I guess Paul McCartney and Beck and someone else, some other famous person, tried to get into this party and the doorman was like, no, no, you guys can't get in.

1:05:17BubblemanAnd there's an audio clip of Paul McCartney saying, how VIP do we have to be? Which you gotta think, Paul McCartney probably hasn't been denied to too many parties in the last, say, since he was alive. I'm going to go out on a limb and say they also did an interview later with the two hip-hop artists that had the party, and they looked all surprised, like, oh, shit.

1:05:47BubblemanTigger, yeah, there you go. Tigger's bodyguard was an idiot, wouldn't let him in. Wow, the Duchess is just, like, on there. I like when people know more of what I'm talking about, and I can just read about it in the chat, like when the Spanibus dates are. Boom, same person. Thank you. Backing me up. That's a sturdy limb bubble, man. Make him a panelist. Yeah, there you go.

1:06:11BubblemanThere was a couple of people that sent me some good emails that I'm going to try and get in in the next couple of weeks. I guess next Hash Church, I'll be in Jamaica. So I'll try to get a good group of people together. Maybe I'll get some cultivators, some growers, or maybe some musicians, or maybe some... Who knows what it'll be. It'll be something cool that's culturally bound to Jamaica.

1:06:34BubblemanAnd I always love going to Jamaica. I always love sharing any little bits of gems that I can get there. And obviously this is going to be a busy trip. I'm not going to have a ton of time to do Bubble Man's World stuff. But it should be pretty good. Oh, it's that drug guy. Double dip. Double dip. Double dip. That's the way to come in right there.

1:06:59BubblemanThat's the way to come in right there.

1:07:01SpeakerI was going to say something about you being something about Paul McCartney, but I don't know. Double dip seemed more appropriate and accessible. Triple dip, brother. Bone rip. Let's do it. Yeah. I'm coming back. I needed more extracts. I got the LHO Live Terps Barber Cross Pecan

1:07:28BubblemanLHO Live Terps. Look what I've got. If I dig deep in the concentrated X, I can find...

1:07:38BubblemanI can find a little LHO. You got my Purple Hindu Terps. Purple Hindu Terps? Yep. I got no Purple Hindu Terps. That's like the one I'm out of.

1:07:53HoratioNot me, man.

1:07:55SpeakerI got a few drops left.

1:07:57HoratioI think we've got a drug deal going wrong. We've got two drug guys in the scene.

1:08:03BubblemanDrug guy. And now we've got two other characters in the scene. Welcome Rob and Todd. Welcome back. Good to see you.

1:08:11Mark ScaldoneAll right. Sound any better?

1:08:13BubblemanYeah, sounds great. Nice interview with Martin Lee there, Rob. Oh yeah, you like that? I did, yes. Sam passed it on my way yesterday. It was great. Thanks. Check it out. You can Google it, guys. Rob Clark, Martin Lee, CBD Project. What else? I think that's it. It's a video. Yeah, yeah. And yes, he is. Welcome, True. Wow, True. We haven't had True in for a while.

1:08:47BubblemanHow are you doing, buddy? Drug guy back in. Keeps mooting me. I don't know.

1:08:53SpeakerNot sure. CBD. There's two drug guys and they're doing two different things. It seems weird.

1:09:02JohnnyDouble dip on that drug guy.

1:09:04SpeakerYeah, we double dipped on the drug guy.

1:09:07BubblemanYou know what? He's getting the same thing that happened to Nick at Tea because Nick at Tea last week was getting bumped out like literally it seemed like every minute. And I don't know. There's nothing really I can do on my end. I'm not, Touching your camera or doing anything with the, hopefully it works. Welcome Barry, True Cannabless, everybody, Hashtag 74. We've got 1100 people watching and they're waiting.

1:09:41BubblemanThey're like, come on guys, come on guys.

1:09:45HoratioI've got a question for Rob. Rob, they were asking in the chat about strains for anxiety. Do you find that, could you use the narrow leaf versus broad leaf as a true guide for effects? Or, I was suggesting following Terps and the aromatherapy guides for like, if it smells like anything in this book, it might be more uplifting or down-regulating. People say like, oh yeah, get cushions for anxiety, but is it that simple as the size of the leaf, or is the leaf more indicative of types of terpenes that you might find?

1:10:23SpeakerWell, the width of the leaflets is really a rough guide for... Indicating which gene pools these plants might have come from. It's definitely not a good guide in the multi-hybrids that we have today. There's just too many other factors going on. And leaf morphology itself, once you start making inbreds and things, is not a particularly good taxonomic trait. But these are more for convenience and trying to get people to think about the varying gene pools that went in, which obviously would have different...

1:10:56SpeakerMedical effects, just different varieties within each of these gene pools too. But it's, yeah, it's much better to look at the terpenes like you're saying and look at some of the things that are active ingredients or ancillary ingredients to the cannabinoids like the terpenes and see what those effects are. And aromatherapy is about the only guide we have to go with. You're right about that too. It's a good guide.

1:11:19SpeakerI was thinking the other day that the aromatherapy people go at this, In a much more conservative fashion than our group, they basically have a little vaporizer hot light bulb and a few drops of essential oils and make these nice creative combinations and there's a science to it. There's a lot of folk art to it as well. And what they don't do is have these inhalation devices called denails where they take whacking hunks of terpene-rich Cannabinoid goo and stick it on there and directly huff the stuff.

1:11:58SpeakerAnd I think maybe they might be envious in a way because we've come up with this experimental model that they were never, ever confident with going that far with aromatherapy. And yeah, it must be interesting to them to watch our team a little bit venture forth so fearlessly.

1:12:15BubblemanWell, you know what, Rob? It was back in 2002 when I opened my gallery, and the main thing was that I wanted to do this vaporization station of inhalation. The inhalation station of vaporization, actually. Very long booth, many different types of... I had the Aromed from Germany, I had the Volcano, I had the Vriptek and the Volatizer, and a variety of the better units from that timeline.

1:12:42BubblemanAnd we... I put a lot of money into the place and I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to get in trouble and have it all taken away so I didn't really want to like sell herb or you know offer herb. If people came in with their own herb I allowed them to use it because we had exemption 56s or whatever it was back then so people could did have medical cannabis.

1:13:02BubblemanAnd it wasn't up to me to decide whether someone had a license or not. That wasn't really my right to ask someone. So if someone came in with cannabis and wanted to use the unit, I would let them. But what we did is we bought herbs from a store next door, dried herbs, and we would sort of teach people the different effects of inhaling these terpenes from these different essential oils and extracts and raw plants.

1:13:28BubblemanAnd I'll tell you, it was quite an incredible experience to see people Have a fax from like legal herbs that you can, you know, and the tastes were so wonderful. Hey, welcome. Hi, everybody. You got lost. Yeah. Man. Hi. This is Ron, everybody. Hi, everybody. One of my old school mentors from back in the day. Madman in his own right. He was basically in my grow tent for the last hour and a half.

1:13:54BubblemanWe start the hash church right away, so he goes into the grow tent and literally disappears. We need some hydration in there. We do need to do all that work. Yeah, so right on.

1:14:05SpeakerHow are you doing? How are you doing? Let's see his finger hash. I want to see the finger hash. No, that's not finger hash. That's dirt.

1:14:16BubblemanOh, yeah. Yeah, if he came up with finger hash like that out of my garden, I'd be like, what were you doing down there?

1:14:25SpeakerI'm just like rubbing all your plants, man. It smells so good. I know. Can I say something? I watch every episode. Sometimes it takes me four hours sitting in a bath and then coming back. But what a distinguished panel of good people. To be on this here right now and see all you distinguished gentlemen, people, wonderful. That's all I want to say.

1:14:47BubblemanAbsolutely. Well, Ron himself is a distinguished gentleman in the pot culture. Of course, he's been involved in it for probably close to 40 years. I told the story a little earlier. I was very young in my teenage years when I started growing, and we had a little bit of a problem, and we heard about this kind of crazy guy that had a hydroponic store. There was another guy in our city that had a hydroponic store, and if you talked about anything but tomatoes, he kicked you out of his store somewhat violently.

1:15:15BubblemanRon, on the other hand, if you came in and talked about tomatoes, he would like take you downstairs and dab you out and then teach you how to grow amazing pot. So Ron had a fairly different approach to how he was approaching cannabis education. And he lost a lot of his freedom because of it. He spent 11 years in a federal penitentiary for nothing other than cannabis.

1:15:38BubblemanI mean, I don't even like to call them crimes because they're not crimes whatsoever. But you definitely are, in my opinion, a A full-blown cannabis warrior. Thank you. And so are you, buddy. You're one of my main inspirations.

1:15:50SpeakerI've heard about you, Ron, from Mark. I feel like I know you like I've never not met you, man. I can't wait to hang out with you, buddy. We've got to smoke some hash. I'll take a rip out to wherever. I want to get Mark on his bike and ride out there together to see you. Yeah. Highways all around my place. Nice, nice. I'm just going to shut up now.

1:16:19SpeakerI'm like a fangirl almost, I think, right now.

1:16:23BubblemanWell, because D420K's gotten some of the good stories, and there's some good stories.

1:16:30SpeakerBig time respect to you, man. Well, since D420K's not here, can I say something? Yeah, of course. Bomb room! Bomb room. Yeah, let's do it.

1:16:40BubblemanDouble dip.

1:16:42SpeakerDouble dip.

1:16:45BubblemanWonderful. Hey, welcome, Tony. I just saw you in the room there. Hi, Tony.

1:16:49SpeakerHey, how's it going? I didn't have sound there for a second. It was hard to hear what you guys were talking about.

1:16:56BubblemanAh, well, we were just kind of introducing Ron and talking about all the madness over the years.

1:17:03SpeakerYep, yep, yep. I had a question, though, because I was thinking about this, and it came up. This would be a good little jump starter for today. I came up with this, there's like this kush cleaner that I got that has a jack in it with like S-F-V-O-G and the guy was telling me that it was like from a mail jack and I was wondering, it's kind of a question from Chimera, I think he's on there today.

1:17:36SpeakerYeah. Yeah, and if Sam's on there, I don't see him on there. Maybe he is, or Robert Clark. Rob's here, yep. Okay, cool. So I had a question. So when we're talking about the transfer of male and female when you're breeding, and this might be a stupid question, but it just dawned on me. It's like, so this was a bud that was crossed with a really nice strain.

1:18:04SpeakerIt was a male jack. And a female SVOG. And you can smell the dominant jack in it. So is there anything different between a male and a female, genetically speaking, that carries the terpene profile? Is one more dominant than the other? Or how is that being transferred? Because a male plant, does a male plant express properties like female plants with terpenes?

1:18:35SpeakerYeah, of course they do. Chimera could probably talk a little more about the specifics, but the terpene side comes from both parents. I mean, the male came from a female. The genes are there. But they're not expressed as well in a male, of course, and it's more difficult to choose males. When you're talking about smelling jack coming through in something, That's a particularly good example of this.

1:19:02SpeakerTerpenolene is the dominant terpene frequently found, let's say, in haze, pincer, holey, and their descendants, you know, Jacker Air being one of them, train wrecks, some of these other things. But it's almost a marker because it's so strong. None of these things are more than an eighth haze that they got terpenolene from. Other terpenes get... Washed out and diluted in their allelic frequency, if you will, as they get crossed in with other things.

1:19:36SpeakerThere are no pure hazes around hardly at all, you know, and everything's got a very small proportion of it, a quarter at the most. And it comes through really strong. People who don't like the terpenylene aroma resent this in breeding because it's almost hard to get rid of. But will certain terpenes go better through males or females? I don't know. Maybe Kramer knows more about this. Yeah.

1:20:02SpeakerThey definitely are not transferred by males or females.

1:20:06BubblemanThat whole thing... Oh, he got bumped out. The only thing I was going to say about it is... Well, now I'm kind of spaced out as I'm reading.

1:20:17SpeakerDid you just kick him off? No. No, he didn't.

1:20:20Mark ScaldoneNo, he's like, we just wait for people to talk and then we boot them, man. I had something to say.

1:20:28SpeakerYes, marvelous.

1:20:31BubblemanGo ahead, Chimera.

1:20:33SpeakerI was like, because the reason why I say that is I wanted to hear his, okay, he's back, because I wanted to then ask another question after that. So let's hear what he says. Okay, so there's a couple of things in the way that you asked the question that are probably going to lead to confusion. So one of the things you said is you crossed this OG to this jack type plant, and in that progeny at least, in the bud that you're holding, the jack came back, right?

1:20:57BubblemanThe very next day.

1:20:59SpeakerBut the OG didn't come in. This is from an old school breeder in California, and I guess he crossed it like four or five times to this SFB, but yeah. Okay, but so here's the deal. You're looking at one plant and you're trying to say, is this dominant or recessive in the population? You can't do that. You can only draw recessive or dominant assumptions from a population, okay?

1:21:22SpeakerSo what's equally as likely is that the OG wasn't true breeding. It had some other allele that got dominated by the terpenolene. You understand what I'm saying? So it's like that plant may not have, it just may not have inherited that jack or that OG Some terpenes do seem to be a little more dominant, like Rob was talking about terpenolene.

1:22:11SpeakerThat profile that contains terpenylene is probably dominant over a few things. And one of the ways that we demonstrated this is I saw a whole bunch of plants that had, you know, very unique hematite or unique terpene profiles like the terpenylene profile from Trainwreck. And on solving Trainwreck, one of the things that came out in the background was these limonene plants that they just kind of popped out of nowhere.

1:22:40SpeakerAnd the reason they popped out of nowhere is that they were buried in the terpene profile expression of the jack or of the train rack line. And it just got masked. That trait got masked, but it didn't appear. Terpene did appear. So...

1:23:03Etienne FontanI gotta look.

1:23:05SpeakerThat was awesome.

1:23:09BubblemanSo are we more likely to find the unique terpene profile we're looking for? What is the advantage other than obviously trichome production in using glandular males, males that produce glandular trichomes, like in abundance, because I've seen some that obviously they probably all do with a microscope, but some actually are like covered in them, which I've seen at Doc Atomics one year when he was doing a A breeding project with a blueberry, or I think it was a blueberry male from DJ Short.

1:23:43BubblemanAnd it was the first time I photographed trichomes all over a male plant.

1:23:51SpeakerWell, my question also was, so when people are buying, you know, regular seeds and they get female and male, and it's always funny where people are, you know, sometimes bummed out if they get like eight males out of the pack. And I always thought that it was a good thing to get, you know, your males, but it was more of a question of how do you select your male, especially for breeding, if you're trying to go for a particular profile.

1:24:17SpeakerIt seemed, I mean, I guess what I was saying was that it seems that if this was a jack male that was being crossed into a female OG and it expresses the jack qualities of that terpenol, that property that you're talking about, How do we know or how do we know that from a breeding standpoint what the best males to select for? And are the males carrying that DNA of those terpenes that then could be expressed?

1:24:48SpeakerAnd you said not dominant, but if you have a big population, it's definitely going to get expressed. So how do we find the right males?

1:24:57SpeakerYeah, this is a pretty deep conversation, and one we've had over and over and over again. Someone asked it at the Emerald Cup this year, and kind of everybody commented on it. And I went into a bit more in-depth there, but essentially, it's not easy. There's two stories I tell when talking about this, and it's a pretty crass analogy, but it's one that everybody can understand because it's like, it's humans.

1:25:23SpeakerSo, how do you breed humans... The big breasts. Like, how do you breed big tits on a girl in humans? And so, it's obviously pretty easy when choosing the females how to do it. But how do you choose your males? Okay? So, it goes back to males don't express the traits that we're looking for in that population, right? Which is the same thing with cannabis. So you can either look at, you can either choose your males based on like families that have big-titted sisters or big-titted mothers, right?

1:25:59SpeakerAnd the other way to do it is to look at big-titted daughters, which is essentially a progeny cross or test cross. You cross at the individual plants and you examine the progeny. But that takes a long time. That's not really an efficient way to go about breeding. So that's kind of in the context of us talking about like how people do it at home. But when you think about what cannabis does in the wild, it doesn't do any of that.

1:26:23SpeakerIt produces tons of males that all throw pollen out in huge quantities and they essentially breed with all the females. And so if you're trying to select that trait in hemp, for example, or in open pollinating cannabis in a field, And you're only pulling out the biggest, you know, the biggest titted girls, essentially, or the plants that show that trait in the females.

1:26:52SpeakerYou can move that trait over time, but often you can't move it over time. That's one of the things about how cannabis is bred. It's an oppressing species. These traits go over time. It takes time to move traits like this. When we breed it one-to-one, or we do these tight inbreeding schemes, we're really getting away from How it happens in nature.

1:27:34Mark ScaldoneAnd I was sitting there, I said, oh, I hope it's a girl, and he stopped me and he said, no, hope it's a boy. Then you can take it home and mix it with all of your good girls. And, you know, and I thought, wow, didn't happen until he said it. And unfortunately, I brought it home. It was a boy, but the DEA cut it down in July of 97.

1:27:52Mark ScaldoneBut it left me thinking. He also left me with another part of that. He said, if you use a longer male with a shorter female, it's going to have your... All right. Your breeding time. Instead of going the other way, taking a 16-week female and using an 8-week male.

1:28:10SpeakerWell, listen, that's one thing I'm trying to get at. Like we said, we talked about flowering time at one point. That's one trait, and it's not a really... It's not the most important trait that I would be selecting for. I mean, sure, earlier is always better, but I don't think a breeding program based on flowering time is really important. But either way, the point that I was trying to make is that it's really hard to breed, to choose males, okay?

1:28:34SpeakerTo select the one male, because they don't reliably demonstrate the traits that are important when you're looking for females, which is what you're really looking for in the next generation anyway, right? We look at female plants. We don't care about the male plant. And so I think choosing one male, if you're going to go with regular mating and actually use males like that, and you're going to choose one male, it's not a good way to go.

1:29:00SpeakerBecause the chances are that you're going to misselect the traits that you're looking for. And the only real way that you can hit them is to do progeny testing. So you select down to 10 males and you cross those 10 males to your 10 females and you grow out 100 families. That's a lot of work. Dave and Rob did this with Skunk. And, you know, it's not a small process.

1:29:26SpeakerWhereas now what a lot of people are doing is going with what are called gynotious mating. It's female-female breeding. And you can select all the traits that are important to a drug cannabis grower on both parents. You make way faster progress genetically. And, you know, people are saying here, oh, so I tried, oh, I use, I select males by rubbing the stems for chirps. And that's like, guys, that's not the way it's done.

1:29:52SpeakerYou know what I mean? Like, so, I don't know.

1:29:58SpeakerThat's what I was looking for because there's a lot of people out there. I mean there's tons of seeds in the world and I see people like they grab a male and then they start a seed company from the male or you know they just try to link on to one thing but I just wanted to know what your thoughts on the proper way to actually select males and then breed them and then how many times do you cross them over and like Just so people out there understand what it actually takes to like make a breadwinner, you know.

1:30:28SpeakerPeople think that it takes like a year and I, you know, from everyone I've talked to and all the breeders I've talked to, it takes years to really get it dialed in. Yeah, but it'll never be as efficient as if you're just dialing direct in with females that you can make produce pollen. Right, and that doesn't only, I know a lot of people are really resistant about feminized things we call feminized seeds.

1:30:52SpeakerThey're actually called gynocious families. And it just means a female-female breeding. And, you know, for example, they make cucumber that are the same way because cucumber also produce males and females. But when you're producing cucumbers and you're planting from seed, you don't want to have to go through and throw it all your males. Like, it's kind of a ridiculous process. And that's one of the things that, you know, this gynocious mating allows you to do is you're all your progeny are females.

1:31:21SpeakerYou don't have to waste all that time and energy going through looking for females.

1:31:24BubblemanIt's the same-sex marriage for cannabis.

1:31:27SpeakerYeah, in a way. It's the same-sex marriage without having to adopt their children. They have their own. Wow. It's almost like a post-op. I mean, I hate to say it that way, but And some of you know what a post-op is. But we don't even have to go to any of those like joke things because it's serious. You don't have to like balk your balking or talking to us or something saying that.

1:31:56SpeakerBut no, like... So that's the way you actually prefer to do it then? So if you have two females... It depends on what I'm doing. It depends on what I'm doing. Yeah. But in specific trait breeding programs, it's way easier to look at plants that you can measure the traits. How do you measure the traits of a male? You can't. You want to know what it contributes to females.

1:32:19SpeakerAnd really, we don't want to be growing females, or males. So, it kind of solves two problems. You make faster genetic progress, and you end up with only female plants. Right? So, the next question that everybody goes to on that is, well, doesn't that create intersex plants? And the answer to that is no, it doesn't. Because you can select any plant just like you would a female for a seed mom or to be a bitch, as some say.

1:32:45SpeakerBut, you know, if it's good enough to share its gametes as ovules, then it's good enough to share its gametes as pollen. And that just means, essentially, that if it's good enough to be a mom, it's good enough to be a dad. You know, you select for all the traits that you want, you select a way for the ones that you don't want, like intersexuality, and then you look for your progeny.

1:33:09SpeakerAnd feminized seeds got a bad rap because of the early companies that put them on the market that used these techniques that actually increased the rate of intersexuality in the progeny, in the offspring, in the seeds that you were buying. You know, when all the seeds go intersex or herm, nobody wants that. So... But newer, more carefully developed, feminized seeds, again, they're definitely not the same thing as the first versions that came on the market.

1:33:39SpeakerAnd I think from a breeding perspective, you can move faster forward. I don't know, Rob, you can probably talk about that or whether you agree with that or not. I think you're exactly right, and that's where it's headed anyway. There's so many clone-only varieties around, and the way guys are grabbing them is to self them. And so when they grow those progeny, the first thing you see is how close to homozygous these plants are.

1:34:09SpeakerNone of them are, of course, but you cross them, and if you get a dog's breakfast of stuff out of them, then you've got a long way to go. You know, and if you get a couple of different phenos coming out, or three or four predictably, then you have a lot less distance to go. So it's kind of a good way to start just to see what you have and where to go from there.

1:34:30SpeakerThe problem is that people didn't select for pure males and pure females. And a lot of these bag seed that these clone-only cultivars came from were accidents. And they were accidents in gynecious breeding, but they were also accidents that happened because people weren't selective to keep males out of female, male flowers out of female lines up to this point. And now the incest breeding in this bag seat is ridiculous.

1:34:57SpeakerThey're either selves or they're crosses with very close siblings and cousins. Back to the trailer trash in the trailer park model. It's fine for a couple of generations, but then it falls apart. And yeah, it's... It's been too accidental. What Camille is talking about is intentional breeding where people have a structure in mind besides trying to seize one unique cutting that they can grow some kind bud with.

1:35:31SpeakerYou know, that's all people are doing these days. And as long as that female, as long as they have a growing regime that that female doesn't produce male flowers, they're okay. But the minute something goes wrong, they got seeds in their crop. And there's not a male in the room, but there's some male vibes, epigenetic effects or something, you know, that are determining these. And it's always been there.

1:35:56SpeakerIt was there in land races, especially in some more than others. And we concentrated through normal sexual breeding to... Get rid of them because the males were obviously males and the females obviously had male flowers on them or not. And you didn't use the ones that did. And that was an automatic selection process to get away from these intersex tendencies. And now that those male tendencies are hidden in females, they're almost impossible to get rid of.

1:36:27SpeakerWell, not impossible, but very difficult. It's the same reason it's hard to select a male because they don't have female traits. We're getting the other way around here. We're selecting females that have hidden male traits that we can't see until it's too late. What about reversing males into female then to see their traits and then you take a cut off of male plants that you're keeping alive, you have a couple males, you reverse it, check out what their traits are, and then you kind of know what they would express?

1:37:00SpeakerI mean, is that also a method? Yes and no is the method. I mean, you can do the reverse trick like we're talking about, spraying females with these ethylene inhibitors, but when you spray males with ethylene, you can produce female flowers, and people have talked about using these flowers as ways to, you know, maybe you can smoke them or you can put them through a GC and do terp tests or cannabinoid tests, which is probably all true, but you have to remember when you're playing with these hormones, you're manipulating these pathways anyways.

1:37:30SpeakerSo how much is due to your manipulation, how much is due to genetics, which is the real important thing. When you're breeding, you're selecting for the genetic component, right? As far as the females, though, what Rob was saying and the intersex plants and selecting the other way, I mean, one of the ways that you would get rid of intersexuality would be through female-female breeding because, again, this is one of these traits that males don't show very well, so you always have a chance of Thank you for watching.

1:38:24SpeakerSo that's one thing. I think the other thing, when you're talking about breeding, and you're really talking about breeding, you're not just talking about taking last year's cup winner and crossing it to this year's cup winner, which is kind of what I look at as, I call it beauty pageant breeding. Right? Like you take this year's winner and you cross it to next year's winner. And then that gets crossed to next year's winner, and that gets crossed to next year's winner.

1:38:49SpeakerYou know, like, that's not really breeding. That's just making a bunch of crosses and going through and looking for an interesting individual, which is fine if that's all you're doing. But if you're talking about real breeding, you know, there's more to it than that. So, if you're talking about, you know, this Jack OG cross that you're trying to make, what's the goal? That should be the first question.

1:39:10SpeakerWhy am I making these seeds? Right? It's someone named Shabat or It's an old school cat that he did this a long time ago. His males are like five or six years old. And it's already done, so it's called the Kush Cleaner. It was just something that while I was smoking it, I was like, oh, that's really cool. And he said, yeah, I've had this jack male for five or six years.

1:39:36SpeakerAnd I was just thinking about it in the sense of it smelled and tasted. It has a good 50-50 blend. It's one of my, it's something that I've always really liked. I happen to like Jack and I happen to like OG. And I've never been able to find a combination of the two that was a good, well, good blend. And it was just interesting to me that expressed so much of the Jack through the male.

1:40:01SpeakerAnd my question was how do you select those males? But it sounds like the trend, you know, in 2000, The later years of 2010 to 2016, it seems the trend is more into selecting the females and kind of reversing them, which early 2000 was a little dicey with that. So it sounds like things have been worked out a little better. Well, it maybe hasn't been worked out a little better.

1:40:25SpeakerLike some people would vehemently argue with everything I'm saying right now. So, you know, that's just reality. But what I kind of try to come about it from a... A really scientific or botanical perspective. And when you break it down to chromosomes being packaged into pollen grains happening from a female plant or a male plant, it doesn't really, there's nothing different there. There is no difference. This is why I always come back to you.

1:40:53SpeakerIf she was good enough to be used as a seed mom, then in my opinion it's good enough to be used as a pollen donor. Because the chemical process that you put on the plant to make it produce pollen is transient. It's temporary. It does not It does not persist, right? And there's some debate whether it causes genetic changes, but in looking at the lines that I've sought out for a few generations, I don't see it.

1:41:18SpeakerSo, you definitely can see which plants are intersex, though. I mean, man, it comes out right away. Like, one generation, you're like, oh, wow, half these plants are intersex. That one wasn't a good one to use for a pollen donor. Right? And you just eliminate the plants that comes back to breeding. Select what you're selecting for and put away the rest. Well, when humans interbreed, we get like weird things like chins and webbed hands and stuff.

1:41:43SpeakerWhat's the weirdest thing you've ever seen interbreeding that's, I mean, triple-headed buds? I mean, do you see anything weird like in this process? Everything is, everything is a result, like these CBG-dominant varieties that are being bred for pharmaceutical or some hemp applications, they're the result of a mutated CBD acid allele. So that the CBD acid doesn't work. Sorry, the CBD acid enzyme doesn't work. And the synthase.

1:42:14SpeakerAnd you end up with a backup of CBG. Every trait that you could possibly look at, there'll be a version of this. I don't know if you've seen this Australian Bastard Cannabis. Tony? Duxfoot? Duxfoot is a different leaf mutation, but that's a good analogy too. But ABC is a different one that makes these really strange leaves that you couldn't even tell it was cannabis. And, you know, they're in there, but they're recessive.

1:42:43SpeakerYou cross it to another plant, like a regular drug-type plant or another hemp-type plant, and that trait disappears for a generation. But it comes back if you have to. Have you grown ABC or seen any pictures of it other than the first pictures on the Internet? No, I actually haven't grown it, but I've got a friend in Oregon who's been working with it for quite a while, and I just hooked up with him recently.

1:43:06SpeakerI'm going to go and see him again this year and get some. He's actually the guy that supplied the samples to a workshop that in turn gave them to McKernan for his ICRS presentation.

1:43:16JohnnyRight.

1:43:17SpeakerYeah, but it's like, there's a whole bunch of problems with that sample. It was already like multi-hybridized, like the drug type, and again, F2 and cross the drug type, and so... Yeah, but he's got it. He's more than welcome to come by and have a look at it. You too. I mentioned you, and he'd definitely like to hook up with you. I'm just surprised that that's actually a real deal.

1:43:43SpeakerWhen I looked at that photo that first appeared, I went spoofed. You know, that to me was a root ball somebody dumped out of their grow room and threw on the side of the road and somebody else found it. And that's what it looked like to me. All the branches cut off, little regrowth buds on it that looked odd. I discounted the whole thing. And I see it again showing up in gene studies and I'm like, okay, maybe it's a real deal.

1:44:06SpeakerI mean, you know, that was only my first impression. Gene study is such bullshit because it's like, sure they looked at the turfs, but they sampled leaf materials. So, meat material is not flour material. It produces a whole different terpene profile. And you can't really take it and then start comparing it to hilly shit and saying, you know, oh, well. There's been a few studies out that have been recently about one that the recent terpene associated with chemotypes.

1:44:38SpeakerYeah. And I thought that was really weak. It was like they had ends of two or three. It was bullshit. I mean, people are going to start making claims about all this terpene profile tied to this genetic history. Grow a population. That's not fucking unreasonable. It's an out-crosser. You know? Well, anyway. But on the topic of males or females, so when it, again, when it comes back to it, it's like, if you really want to go with males...

1:45:11SpeakerHere's the way I think of it. How many times, Tony, have you thrown down a hundred seeds and grown out like a new variety that you're looking at, and the one that you are convinced that week six or week seven is going to be the banger that you're going to be like, you're planting six crops down the road of what the garden's going to look like with clones of this thing, and it doesn't end up being the one that you keep?

1:45:36SpeakerYou know what I'm saying? Right, so that's kind of how I feel like what people do when they choose males. They're planning way down the road based on these traits that are like, sure, important enough, like stature and the smell of the terpenes and all that, of the stem, but that's, like, I don't, I wouldn't want to be basing, like, all the rest of my future generations on a hit or miss male.

1:46:02SpeakerSo I think if you're using males, use them all. Or use a selection of like 10 or 15 of them, you know, that suit your goals. And that way at least you're preserving all that genetic signal that exists in the males.

1:46:19HoratioCan I ask you this? I watch videos and he tends to always rock two seeds. And he always has this one that's the bud, the size of your head. And then he always has this way smaller one that he always, way later that you see in the reviews, he goes, this one's always the better bud. It always has better terpenes. It always seems to be a better smoke.

1:46:39HoratioBut all through the progression, the hype is about the just gigantic, aggressive football player plant. But every time I see the smoke review, these gigantic plants just produce a ton of vegetable matter that I guess is not the goal in the end. So I'm asking, when I constantly ask, like, why can't I just pick based on this smell? Because I have so many seeds to try in this world, and I only have 10 slots.

1:47:07HoratioIt's just a way to find a kill rate so that I can work through shit versus worship two seeds that my buddy gave me for the next five years breeding it out. So many people look for vegetative qualities because the mindset has been based on selling vegetative matter where now you have things like if I get this terpene profile and it solves anxieties for real, no bullshit, I'm good because I have a medical product that's a niche and a brand and that's kind of why people now look for that terpene niche.

1:47:38HoratioYeah, I don't know. I don't really agree with a bunch of that.

1:48:08SpeakerLike everybody's got a lot of seeds to start. You got a lot of seeds to start? Dude, I've got a lot of seeds to start too. And it's like the reality is in the future it's not going to be bread and like people that are growing ten plants at a time. Those guys are not going to be the ones that are finding these unique smells that are like going to save the next generation or make them a bunch of money.

1:48:28HoratioI get that aspect, especially when you're like, look, I got a strain that's backing up CBG. I'm like, I need that strain. I need that strain ASAP for my bomb. And I'm like, that's a whole different style of breeding. But with us, we're all still smoking and exploring. And I'm like, you mean that came from a bag seed random shit? Man, I love that and I need that.

1:48:48HoratioThat's kind of why I'm like, why is that still not a form? Our random way of breeding like animals is a form of land race breeding in itself.

1:48:57SpeakerYou mean our, yeah, our way of breeding like animals. So, yeah, that's the way we breed. I mean, we're outcrossers, right? So, tomato, for example, is not an outcrosser. Tomato is an inbreeder, a self-inbreeder. So, if you take a tomato seed and you, it's a true breeding tomato seed and you plant one seed and you grow the tomatoes and you keep the seeds out of the tomatoes and you plant them, they look the same as the tomato plant that you grew.

1:49:24SpeakerAnd you can do this for 20 generations and they look the same, okay? That's because tomato has purged out all these genetic weaknesses in the plant, right, that have existed in the genome. So, because they would eventually kill the line, right? Any plant that had these deleterious recessions would kill the line. Whereas without crossers, they stay around. All these deleterious recessions that Tony was talking about, like these Weird genetic traits, you know.

1:49:50SpeakerThey're in there. They're buried in the pool. And because people just grab one male based on stature or whatever, or another male, or all the males, or a section of the males, all these traits, they get capped around. Okay, so, you know, as much as I kind of poo-poo the method that we've been breeding for the last 30 years, you've got to admit, we are where we are.

1:50:13SpeakerWe've got some pretty decent flowers compared to the wild relatives. But I think what really needs to happen now is that we do need to turn these things into in-breed lines like Rob's talking about and make them relatively true breeding, but then you can start crossing them out to up each other. And, you know, I think we're probably in a pretty good time for cannabis breeding over the next 10 years.

1:50:34HoratioI see what you're saying. When we started that argument about what defines an elite variety, and your complaint was that nobody's building elite varieties anymore, and I'm like, I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. But I also look at it and I'm like, if this is going to create the modern tomato with no nutrient density and no food value, that's why heirloom tomatoes that are difficult to grow and have all these, basically these old...

1:51:03HoratioPotential for new outcomes are now the new, become the new rage and surges because I don't want a red tomato, I want a purple tomato with stripes with some potential for some food value because perfect breeding in a greenhouse is produced food that's basically not growing good humans anymore.

1:51:22SpeakerWell, yeah, that's a huge But yeah, you can make that argument and I understand what you're saying with that. I put it this way. You were asking about, there used to be these plants that are the big monsters like, for example, Jamaican Sugar or the old HP, right? Those are what I call grower's plants. Those are plants that growers like to grow because they produce like a motherfucker and they get paid, right?

1:51:46SpeakerWell, those odds don't always go with the smoker's plants.

1:51:50BubblemanAlmost never.

1:51:51SpeakerAlmost never.

1:51:52BubblemanThat HP was an anomaly.

1:51:55SpeakerYeah, it still sucks, but I mean, whatever. It's not a very interesting profile. It's got some interesting traits, I'd say that, the yield and the size, but it's like, I don't know, it's pretty mold.

1:52:05BubblemanIt's made full melt resin that was killer, so that's what I'm talking about.

1:52:09SpeakerIt makes great resin, and in that sense it is a hatch plant, but as far as a cannabis plant, it sucks. You know, and you ask all the 100 million Americans that have been smoking beers for the last 50 years, and they'll tell you all they need to be.

1:52:25BubblemanWell, I mean, I wouldn't say that the nicest HP was the same as the beasters by any means, but there definitely were people that didn't know how to grow it. My buddies grew that stuff in a way that it was impressive to see two-pound plants growing inside In like a 10 by 10 room and pulling down like 20 plus pounds, for me, I was never impressed with the weight.

1:52:47BubblemanIt was that the resin melted into a liquid when I made water hash from it. That's what I was always like. And I have pictures from, I'll post them in... I'll post a thread in Hash Church about this very same plant that we're talking about.

1:53:00Mark ScaldoneI brought Gypsy Nirvana to the grow one time on the coast, and there's pictures of him looking in the grow.

1:53:07BubblemanHe's down low, and the lower buds are bigger than his head. The big buds are bigger than the light.

1:53:15SpeakerIt produces like a mother, but again, it's a smoker's plant. So when the industry is controlled by growers, that's what ends up on the market. When the industry is influenced so heavily by smokers, Other stuff starts to end up on the market.

1:53:26BubblemanWell, but keep in mind it wasn't the growers who were deciding to grow that because they thought it was the best. They were growing it because the buyers were telling them to grow it. They were buying it. They were paying so much money for it and buying it cashed outright. It's like, of course they're going to grow that herb. These motherfuckers keep buying it. It was... It was LA weed.

1:53:48BubblemanIt was like fake boobs, blonde hair. Like you just, packs of it went to LA and people just could like literally look at it and go, yep, that's perfect, thank you. Like it wasn't that herb that people were confused at and had to look at for a long period of time and open the bag and kind of be like, geez, I'm not sure if I can make this work.

1:54:07BubblemanIt was definitely the buyer's market, that herb.

1:54:10SpeakerLet's push into the future a bit, Mark. What do you think is going to happen in the future when growers are driving the market, like Amir is talking about, and you've got consumers who want something special. What do you see happening here? Don't you see that these growers' plants that are good enough for the public, isn't that what it's going to be, the plonk, the bog standard stuff that people generally consume?

1:54:39SpeakerIt could be.

1:54:40BubblemanIt could be just like restaurants and food, but that's not to say we're not going to have our five-star restaurants or our microbreweries or our, you know, the little guy that's like, okay, my niche will be to fill the plug, the holes that is, you know, they've got their thing over there, but the quality is missing. It's just not quite what we, because I think with cannabis, people will never accept, you know, at least a certain group of people will never accept anything but le top.

1:55:10HoratioThat'll be the medical people. I mean, because that's what they're searching for.

1:55:14SpeakerThat'll be whatever the medical people are called after there is no more medical people.

1:55:22HoratioGo further ahead, brother. It's still us. The medical people of now are the connoisseurs of tomorrow. We're hand in hand because the connoisseur effect is the best medicinal value. It's this weird line where everyone who's actually sick is chasing the true quality within the plant and everyone who's looking to get a We'll smoke generic commercial whatever, and they always have, and they have a vape pen in their hand right now, versus an actual rig for smoking oil.

1:55:56BubblemanI don't know, I was talking to Sam, the skunk man, yesterday, and Ron was with me when he said it, and he was kind of like, you know, like, It's fine that there's medical use and whatnot, but I'm a smoker to get high. I smoke to get high, and I don't want to feel guilty about it. He was basically showing the importance of it. I understand that it was very much a foot in the door to, back in the day, medical patients, when I say back in the day, in the 90s when the Compassion Club, Hillary started her Compassion Club, she was really brave in the beginning to Only for those that were terminally ill.

1:56:32BubblemanIt was only for the most terminally ill people. And that eventually turned into, you know, a whole variety of patients that today involves like physical pain, headaches, you know, back pains, all sorts of different things that back then, and when it was happening in Cali, people would all be like, oh yeah, you've got a headache, go get a marijuana prescription or whatever. But as we come through more and more and more and we realize the importance of the preventative nature of cannabis, I think that I just constantly time and time again go back to Brownie Mary who says there's no such thing as recreational cannabis.

1:57:08BubblemanIt's all medicinal. So we've split ourselves all up into these different groups like which is normal for us because prohibition has split us and divided us from the beginning of anyone's involvement with this plant for the last hundred years or whatnot. So it's a situation that is what it is, but I think that if we could just push the preventative and the rec and the medical back into just the overall incredibleness of cannabis, that it would be less maybe regulated and all these different things that are, oh, you've got to have biometric safe for your cannabis in Canada.

1:57:45BubblemanIt's like a biometric safe that is like three feet thick with concrete. This is like an herb. That's like putting broccoli in a safe like that. It's just absurd.

1:57:56HoratioI think of your friend Phil. His headache is not a regular headache, but he also ends up being a grower of phenomenal strains in search of the cure for his headache and a connoisseur to boot. It's this weird dichotomy where I go to a heady thing and I'm like, these people are all sick. They're all hiding some sickness. They don't even know if they're treating it because they just stick to their favorite strain and that's all they smoke.

1:58:21HoratioAnd I look at someone like Rob, the never-aging man, who said, like, I just smoked for rec, and I'm like, my ass, you've got the key to youth and a sparkling mind in the later years. So clearly you know you're strange, you just don't name the medical effects to boot.

1:58:37SpeakerLet me point something out historically here. You may well be correct. And we can sort out medicating versus not medicating and getting high versus not getting high. Obviously, they're intertwined in each individual. Culturally, they should not be. We're seeing whether, in my opinion, they should not be. You have a medical field, you have recreational use, you have red wine used medicinally if that's what the user wants to use it for.

1:59:05SpeakerBut let's go back historically here a minute. There were connoisseurs before there were medical users. Dennis Perrone was a connoisseur before he was a medical user. Come on now. You guys are the midfield. You're what's taken over recently. When the medical thing sorts out to be either home choice for adult use, which is where I think it's headed, we're still going to have connoisseurs, and the medical side is going to be owned by pharmaceutical companies.

1:59:32SpeakerIn my humble opinion. But don't discount connoisseurship as being what started the whole thing. And like Mark's saying, what's going to keep it going in the future largely? For those who care. Most wine drinkers drink plonk. You know, 90% of Americans drink beer only anyway. And what, 10% drink craft beer? So, you know, it's there. There's a model for all this. I'm sure it's going to go forward.

1:59:55SpeakerI think Mark's right. But don't... My only suggestion to people out there in general is cannabis is a good medicine. But let's not screw up the recreational side with the medical side, and especially let's not screw up the medical side with the recreational side. People should be able to decide in the land of the free, in the home of the brave, what they want to use their herbs for.

2:00:22SpeakerIt's not the government's decision, and we shouldn't allow it to be. We should divorce ourselves from it. If people don't want to use herbs, and they want to use another medical formulation of cannabis, then I think we're going to have to turn towards the medicine method. Okay? We really don't have medium ground for a business model based on herbal medicines. Just hasn't happened. We could pioneer it right here and now, but I would recommend it might be better for us to fight the battles we can win and possibly win and leave out some of the battles that might be a little bit too much for us to tackle reasonably.

2:01:00SpeakerAnd in the very near future, we're talking about legislation coming down, Sooner rather than later. That's just from an apolitical kind of guy, my comments on this.

2:01:10BubblemanYou know, the recreational aspect of cannabis seemed like, you know, it was like the black sheep of the cannabis world. So when the whole medical thing erupted, It was really like this safe place that people were able to go from being treated like a bloody criminal for so long just for loving cannabis.

2:01:36SpeakerI mean, would you not say that... My thing is I think recreational and medical are so the same because it's a prescription for happiness.

2:01:47BubblemanA prescription for happiness.

2:01:48SpeakerSo then the happiness makes everything better. Yeah. Well, I think on that because I started as a patient. I got into this on the medical side in Colorado and then, you know, kind of distastefully didn't like the way the recreational was over-regulating the plant. So I agree with a lot of things Robert was saying in the sense that, you know, home use and certain uses like they shouldn't be dictating Exactly what's being used, but unfortunately people are still profiteers and they're profiting off of the fact that they can get away with the, you know, selling flowers that naturally grow for a lot of money.

2:02:33SpeakerAnd so in Colorado you've got this recreational, medical, and then you've got home grow and or black market. And black market's probably 40, 50% in Colorado. They collected more taxes than alcohol In their first year and Colorado's home to Coors and Blue Moon and breweries and stuff. And they even have a few casinos. And so, you know, when you're looking at cannabis in a market, you have to understand that I never compare it to alcohol because alcohol is a disease and it doesn't help us maintain homeostasis at all.

2:03:15SpeakerSo I look at cannabis as a Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back.

2:03:48SpeakerWe're going to have a lot of fun. We're going to have a lot of fun. We're going to have a lot of fun.

2:04:18SpeakerRecreation or social products, and you wouldn't have one without the other. And I think if we leave it up to the pharmaceutical companies and just kind of bow out a little bit and not challenge it or at least try to stick with it for some time, which is, again, impossible and not easy to go against billion-dollar pharmaceutical companies. But if we don't all stick together and kind of move in the same ship and try to We may never have seen different types of recreational use products.

2:04:59SpeakerI think that what Horatio was saying earlier, where Calmera, I'm not sure if you agreed or not, but what he was saying was being able to access these different full spectrum terpene profiles, that's what I've been putting in. I've been putting that in my capsules and linguals. I've been putting that with the medicine in specific categories. So those terpenes are paired with specific ratios and specific delivery methods.

2:05:28SpeakerSmoking was not one of them. Vaporizing was not one of them. So that was why I spent a year very leery to even release it because I don't know if there's medical benefits to vaporizing terpenes with concentrates of CBD or THC yet. If we could rule that out, yes or no. But the things that have marked, the things that have marked. That's why GW Pharmaceutical spends like 25 million pounds every year on clinical trials, so that they can say that it's not medically beneficial.

2:06:02SpeakerYes, exactly.

2:06:03BubblemanThis is a perfect example of what I'd like to acknowledge here. The first time I ever used another plant other than cannabis through the bubble bags to buy me a new hash, and it came out real nice. And I took this hash. And I took a little bit of it and I mixed it with some bubble hash and I took a bong rip of it. And the thing that I noticed right away through my own bioassay was that it suppressed my cough.

2:06:28BubblemanLike immediately. And I couldn't believe it. So I went online and I looked up mint suppress cough. And I came up with RJ Reynolds and how they spent $25 million on a study to find something that suppressed cough naturally that they could put in their tobacco. They spent $25 million on something that I discovered in an afternoon with my own bioassay. So don't discount yourself when the scientist is telling you that you need to do things properly.

2:06:54BubblemanThat is true. Things should be done properly, but all sorts of things are discovered. We know that when the U.S. spent the millions of dollars to create the pen that writes in space, like 10 plus million dollars, and the Russians just used a pencil.

2:07:12HoratioThat's so funny. I can't believe we ended it that way. I started laughing instead of responding.

2:07:20HoratioIt's this thing where it seems like when we say medical, now we feel it's pharmaceutical. I'm like, if we let these pharmaceutical guys take over, all the medicinal benefits are going to disappear because they're going to one-pound pound it and miss the boat and never see that simply taking those terpenes and mixing them with THCA and saving $20 million, you can see the medicinal effects. Tony, you should see what happens when you reverse and you put CBD, let's say dominant, or let's say just like ACDC terps on straight THC, you see the medicinal effects that are supposed to be derived from CBD are totally based on the terpene.

2:08:01HoratioAnd then when you can strip the CBD of the terpenes and just get down to CBD, you can see where there is some form of physical effect. But paired with the terpene, it becomes this medicinal effect that people actually gravitate towards CBD strains like Tsunami and so on.

2:08:19SpeakerDr. Well, and then you also have to look at, if you looked up the definition of natural products in a medicinal food, okay, and that's how I always looked at cannabis or cannabis-based types of supplements or medicinal foods. The definition of pharmaceutical, you look into that and a lot of it is precision. When we talk 99.5 plus percent of a compound, you're starting to get into what they call pharmaceutical grade.

2:08:50SpeakerPharmaceutical has a particular definition in the international and domestic world of what that actually means. That's the category in which we're talking about. Cannabis is a medicinal food, not a pharmaceutical. But a medicinal food, that's a different classification, different FDA requirements, different things. But the moment you take that herb and you start to compound it into 99.9% concentrates and then you're taking those into different types of ratios with specific volumes and percentages of terpenes like what GW is doing, what we're trying to do.

2:09:32SpeakerAnd even at GW's level, they're taking it to the pharmaceutical level. And those will get certain types of... Ah, but with one very important distinction, Tony. They cannot patent their active ingredient. Their active ingredient is known and widely described throughout the literature. So every other clinical trial that's ever been conducted by any company who shells out $200,000, $300,000, $400 million has done it on a patented composition.

2:09:59SpeakerYou cannot patent THC. Cannot patent CBD. It's known. So GW is basically spending a lot of money teaching the rest of the world what the effective ratios are going to be in a clinically relevant study. Mark, is that why you're fucked?

2:10:19HoratioIs it because once they figure it out, they have to make the fake version, and then the fake version fails the trials?

2:10:25SpeakerTheir patents won't hold up in an infringement case against it, so they've wasted a lot of money making a lot of attorneys very, very wealthy. No, that's bullshit, dude. They patented, the patent means nothing. That's bullshit. Patents mean a whole lot. A lot of people make a lot of money with patents. What matters in the FDA approval process is getting the approval. And to get the approval, you have to have the studies.

2:10:54SpeakerAnd that's why they spend $25 million a year doing, or $25 million a year doing stuff. Are you going to buy Cetivax for your patient that's got those afflictions, or are you going to go to your local garden and get a good CBD tincture from them? Yeah, well, wait and see. That's why regulations are laying down in all these different places where they have a huge effect.

2:11:16SpeakerYou know? It has one hold up in an infringement case. Yeah, but maybe they want people growing up. I mean...

2:11:25BubblemanI would like to add something in regards to infringement cases, seeing as I was involved in one for eight years and have first-hand experience, because a lot of people told me that, oh, that water extraction patent, it won't hold up in court. Well, you know, sometimes it doesn't have to hold up in court. If you can get Thank you for watching.

2:11:57BubblemanJust acknowledge the gentleman's intellectual property and work with him. So I'm not saying that everyone should do that with GW Pharmaceutical. I'm just saying that sometimes patents do indeed, you know, they can, there's a use for patents.

2:12:15SpeakerYeah, but a patent, there has to be an invention. Thank you for joining us.

2:12:36SpeakerI don't know if that was the case in your case, Mark.

2:12:40BubblemanThat's the other thing. Everyone was like, oh, you just need the prior art. Well, the prior art didn't hold the water that everyone said it would hold. What I'm saying is every judge is different, every court case is different, and that prior art thing, that can take years to come up into court before you get to the point after you've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars. Trust me, a company like GW Pharmaceutical has that money to spend.

2:13:03BubblemanAnd I, unfortunately, I don't like the idea of the little guy getting squished out because he does not have that money.

2:13:09SpeakerIt's not even about that. I mean, the patents, with Epidiolex or Sadovax and getting FDA approval, it has not, like, the patent, sure, it protects their investment, but even if somebody else wanted to come along with a similar product and put it on the market under, like, FDA regs, you'd have to go through the whole same approval process that they did, whether the patent held or not.

2:13:30SpeakerSo there's still, like... 10, 15 years ahead. Right. THC and CBD as active ingredients should not be going through the FDA regs. Period. End of story. Right? Is turmeric, is the compound found in turmeric going through FDA trials? No. Tumeric is a medicinal natural powder. It's a medicinal food. It's also not psychoactive. Hello, where have we been the last fucking like 10 years? This is all bullshit about prohibition.

2:14:03SpeakerThat's all. I think it's pretty fucking funny to try and just sit there and say, oh, well, it's different than turmeric. It's not turmeric. It's a restricted schedule 1 chemical. Yeah, but turmeric is a biologically active compound that's obtained from a plant, and that's exactly what CBD and THC are. I don't make any distinction. Psychoactivity is irrelevant. You're having a conversation today, though. It'll be one thing to have a conversation here, but right now... Yeah, there is this huge elephant in the room, Mark.

2:14:38SpeakerI mean, it is a number one controlled substance. I mean, it's like... Oh, that, come on, that's going to become unraveled over the next couple years, guys. It's not going to be on the schedule, you know, okay? Can we get beyond that? Come on, collective intelligence here on this panel and in this room is a lot more. Let's think beyond Schedule 1, folks. Yeah, Mark, come on, dude.

2:15:03SpeakerWe're talking about changing the laws. You're preaching to the converted. You need to preach to the people that, like, I was on the phone with my congressman for two hours yesterday. I'm dialed in, dude. It's all good. It's moving forward, bud. I hope so, but if you brought up the turmeric question, then I don't know. Hey, welcome back, Todd. How about we start the new campaign instead of cannabis is safer than alcohol, how about we just say cannabis is safer than turmeric?

2:15:36SpeakerStart it now.

2:15:42SpeakerYeah, I just think that the best way to converse with the public about this kind of stuff is like, you know, the prohibitionists lied for fucking 80 years or whatever, and it didn't do them any good, but I think us, I think we need to really have a moral reason to tell the truth and just argue the discussion on its merits, not on like,

2:16:07SpeakerI hear you. I don't mean to be rude or condescending in any way. My point is that there is no play for the pharmaceutical companies here. None. Zero whatsoever because they cannot pay for clinical trials on a medicine that's not proprietary to them. They just won't do it. They would hemorrhage. They just won't do it. That's not the only reason to exist for pharmaceutical companies. They went from a company that was worth $20-50 million at one point in time and then it went up to $2 billion.

2:16:40SpeakerFrom a business perspective, that's not a bad business. Whether they've got their drugs on the market or not. You've got to remember it's not only about whatever. I still think that they do have a play. I think Epidiolex and Sativex are their Okay products, you know, Epidiolex probably have more support for it than Sativex, just because Sativex is full of ethanol and propylene glycol. But... Yeah, like they'll serve a purpose in the market, in markets where cannabis will be restricted and people don't have access to those medicines.

2:17:17SpeakerI predict that those medicines will do well where countries are basically roped into basically using those medicines and those medicines alone. But I think what those medicines are going to do is those medicines are going to shed light on the fact that the active ingredients in this plant All of these are available for anybody, not just GW Pharmaceuticals to put into a medication. Dr. Well, but they're not available for anybody.

2:17:44SpeakerThey're not available to anybody living in Texas. They're not available to anybody living in Mississippi. Dr. What are you saying? People in Texas don't use cannabis? Is that what you're telling me? Dr. No, I'm saying they're not available in the market. Well, that's because of the fucked up laws in our country, man, and it has nothing to do with the fact that people in Texas don't use cannabinoids in cannabis.

2:18:06SpeakerYeah, but I think that it would be more widely available to certain older folks that are in hospice if they had a regulated something to get, you know, a real product.

2:18:18SpeakerListen, that's all four people treating themselves. And in the context of what Marcus was saying earlier, I think everybody should be able to treat themselves. You can say whatever you want about it. I feel this limonene medicine makes me feel this way or I prefer CBD or whatever. But when you start having a product to sell and you're saying my medicine that has high limonene and this much CBD or this much CBD and you're making a claim about that, And that's in the range of the pharmaceutical world.

2:18:48SpeakerAnd unfortunately, in the world we live in, if you want to start making those claims, then you're going to fall in the pharmaceutical land over and over again.

2:18:56BubblemanWell, the beautiful thing about the cat world is that we've been changing the world.

2:19:02Etienne FontanAnd so that's what we continue to do.

2:19:05BubblemanWe'll continue to change the world we live in and we'll make it the way we want it. So if it doesn't fit into the pharmaceutical model, which I suspect that I know here in Canada, it's very likely that, you know, a group like PharmaSave with a thousand plus dispensaries across Canada already in place with full distribution already in place, of course they're super likely to get that sort of contract to be, you know, to be able to distribute cannabinoid, phyto cannabinoid based medicines.

2:19:35SpeakerI see very much a tiered system that's going to be implemented where, again, people with medical conditions or illnesses are basically going to turn to herbal supplements first. Again, like with D420K's thing, herbal supplement wasn't going to cure the bacterial infection in his lungs. He needed an antibiotic made by a pharmaceutical company, conducted clinical trials and FDA cleared and all that. Yeah, right.

2:20:05SpeakerDr. I think herbal supplements, which is where cannabis falls into, is going to be the first tier that all people should go to and turn to to see can you alleviate your medical condition. Is it diabetes? Is it Alzheimer's? Is it what condition that you have? Try this first before going to your doctor. And asking for some multi-billion dollar pill that, again, if you understand the mucosa immunology, it's amazing that any drug that you take into your GI works at all because it's chemically assaulted and all kinds of shit going on down in your stomach.

2:20:47SpeakerSo it's really crazy that anything actually works in orally active form. I think Todd talked about this a couple episodes ago. We need to flush the mentality that whatever there is in terms of a medical condition or illness, that there's a pill for it. Here, there's a pill. Oh, that kid's acting up. Give him a pill. Oh, that kid's got a headache. Give him a pill. Give him a pill.

2:21:11SpeakerYou can't just take CBD and put it into the gut because it gets metabolized into several different cannabinoids. The gut is a very, very acidic environment. The notion that You know, like my dad or my father-in-law takes five different or six different medications all at once. This one's for cholesterol. This one's for blood pressure. This one's for gout. They don't even know how two of these medications interact, let alone six or seven of them.

2:21:37SpeakerWe need to get out of the notion that there's a pill for that, that there's an orally active pill that you can swallow and everything will be fine. Yeah, I agree with you on that, bro. I really do, and I don't want to come off as the guy that's like, All pro big business because I'm really fucking not. But the reality is there's regulations about producing products and a whole bunch of shit that's not happening under the current cannabis market.

2:22:01SpeakerI think that if I were to go into dispensaries in Canada, I'd probably throw out about half the stuff in the shelves there. I don't think that we're in a good model where we've got it figured out. It is self-regulating when we've got it all figured out and we're taking care of the needs of the patients. I don't.

2:22:21HoratioThat's the trouble. I get what you're saying. If you base your opinion on Canada, where I try to think to the market that's putting out the hardest future trending standards like, okay, what's going on in Colorado? Okay, these pesticides are in my future going to be banned. So it's already good to start weeding out growers that you suspect have the nature to spray. We have a model where it's like, well, look, I could fly past with spline colors any Colorado test that's required to put something on the market.

2:22:53HoratioIn Canada, they might go, well, that's all great that you can pass the test, but I need you to keep it in a 10-foot cement wall safe. You're broke and you're out. So that's kind of where Canadian regulations are really about financially breaking regulations. People that are out of a model where I'm like, I don't understand. My stuff goes to the same lab the LPs go to and I pass.

2:23:16HoratioWhat else is there left?

2:23:20Mark ScaldoneYou know, I just will chime in and say part of us doing this hash church and having these conversations is I think that people might start demanding equal rights in commerce and equal rights in the market and equal rights on par with other adult use items, be it guns, be it booze, be it cigarettes, be it pills, be it whatever you want to talk about, razor blades to knives.

2:23:42Mark ScaldoneI mean, we have all of this stuff in the world that is adult use items and we don't have a problem regulating it. And You know, because cannabis, you know, it, it, it, look, you know, we had a person that bought an edible at an LA club and rear-ended a cop who was in the middle of a pullover right on the 101 and killed him. You know, and somebody that takes an edible and doesn't know the potency of the edible is dangerous to us all in a scenario like that.

2:24:09Mark ScaldoneAnd we need to, we need to practice responsibility as producers When we're putting things in the market, we have to be accurate about what we're putting out in the market. And I think this is part of what we see happening with a regulatory type model that's not going to kick us down, but maybe protect us from people that come along and don't really give a shit about what they're putting in the product they sell you at the club.

2:24:32Mark ScaldoneOr they don't really care if there's a little bit of mold in the bag that they're selling you because they just got to flip it. And this is where I think things are going to change. And I don't think that should be a scary thing. And as far as recreational versus adult use versus medical, I mean, fucking people like me are still going to be born dealing with cancer.

2:24:52Mark ScaldoneAnd it's what it is. There will be people that have severe medical conditions that are going through life-saving treatment that will help have cannabis help them. But there's still going to be very healthy people on a Friday night that want to go out and have some laughs with their friends and share a joint and not drink whiskey or not drink wine or not have a freaking beer and wake up with a hangover.

2:25:13Mark ScaldoneThey're going to choose cannabis for that recreational Friday night with their friends and it's really hard for me to sit here and try to guilt justify that that's medical use When it's, you know, fuck it, a bunch of happy people, you know, guys coming home from the gym, just want to sit around, share a moment, pass a joint. They don't want to sit there and go, yo, I'm doing this because my muscles are sore today.

2:25:34Mark ScaldoneLike, yo, what about growing up? What about being an adult? What about just fucking not making excuses for wanting to have a glass of scotch or smoke a fucking cigar or go swim in the Caribbean? You know, why can't we enjoy life without having to make excuses for it every fucking time? And this is what I think is going to change with pot because to me there was medical use of alcohol in the 20s and 30s.

2:25:58Mark ScaldoneHow many people walk around with their bottle of whiskey going, you know, fucking medical use, you know, without it being a joke, you know, to us all. And that might change with weed too because there will be people that are sick as fuck, but there will be people that literally just want to share a joint with you and have a laugh.

2:26:15SpeakerWow. That was an awesome rant. I like that. Everybody's testifying. So I would say I'm going to give a couple good gestures towards the regulations. I'll tell you things that I saw in Colorado that I liked and thought were good that support what Todd's saying. One, the state... Uh, gave out, gives out these little cards to every one of the centers that they put on their front.

2:26:39SpeakerAnd it talks about being responsible. It talks about being safe. It talks about edible dosing. It talks about all the things that you said, which I thought was pretty cool. Well, um, that they're, you know, it's like, uh, don't drink and drive. And they're just kind of like have the same type of responsible campaign. And there was like the frequently asked questions for out of staters. How much can I buy?

2:26:59SpeakerWhat's the legal amount I could hold? Um, can I smoke in public? And those kind of things. I think that's super important and things that, like you said, it's not to fear. Another thing which is different, once you kind of surrender to the idea of regulation and you have your security system in place and you've got buttons rigged to your center in different places and you can push a button and within two minutes cops roll in and I'll pull out their guns and arrest anyone that's trying to rob you because now you're paying taxes and the taxes that your industry's paying is actually paying their salary and so now they're protecting your grow.

2:27:41SpeakerSo that's also something that is unique and different once you realize, hey, I'm pushing a button to the cops to stop Joey and the boys from jacking my medicine for my patients or my product for my customers. And then thirdly, We would hope that would then lead to responsible clubs, just like we can go to a strip club and drink, or we can go to an event and drink, or go to a restaurant and drink.

2:28:10SpeakerWe should be able to just let it go and say, like you said, I'm out on a Friday night, and I want to smoke a joint in a club at a jazz bar, and I want to not drink, and I want to do that instead. Hopefully, it leads into that and not over-regulated because in Denver, they haven't got there yet. They're basically banning all public smoking. They don't have clubs.

2:28:37SpeakerBut they're slowly coming along, and I think that's some of the benefits that you'll see in regulation as well as the testing, the molds, the pesticides. All of the public safety aspects of things.

2:28:51Mark ScaldoneCan you cross this out, Tony? You know, like I have, because I'm not much of a drinker and I really abhor drunks with, I'll say it publicly, I hate drunk people. I feel they go from, you know, instant asshole just to add alcohol for the most part. I don't like how it changes the personality of people. So I avoided nightclubs and those types of situations. And then I moved to Amsterdam and I had coffee shops.

2:29:13Mark ScaldoneAnd it changed my social world because it wasn't that I didn't like going out and meeting people, I just didn't like to go out and meet drunk people. I love to go out and socialize with other cannabis users. I love going to the cafes all over Amsterdam and meeting people from all over the world and realizing I have so much in common with those people and we just met over a joint.

2:29:33Mark ScaldoneAnd a lot of times we're non-drinkers, non-tobacco smokers, we just use cannabis. It's odd the similarities that I've found And I can't wait until we get to a place where we can have, if you will, adult use of cannabis and there'll be places to go similarly like that where I can meet people from all over the world and share experiences with. Because right now we're staying home and that kind of sucks.

2:29:57SpeakerYou know where that is right now? The hot spot? That's Spain, baby. That's what these guys.

2:30:03Mark ScaldoneOne of them. I mean, you know, bro, I've been to Barcelona. I was there. We opened up the museum in 2012 when there was just a handful of social clubs, and now it's grown great. I've said for years that Barcelona is the new Amsterdam of Europe. I still think it is. You know, I hosted the international panel at the International Cannabis Business Conference, and I had the founder of Spannabis, and also the guy that did...

2:30:27Mark ScaldoneIt's fantastic what's happening in Spain right now. Everybody watching should go. Mark and I had a great time out there last year.

2:30:39HoratioIs the culture out there, do they mix the alcohol with the cannabis? I actually understand how society has this fear, if we let weed mix with our alcoholism problem It's going to explode.

2:30:53Mark ScaldoneI've got to say something. Dennis Perron, the guy that actually wrote 215, he actually had a problem with alcohol. If you sit and talk to Dennis about what his medical use is, he said it keeps him from being an alcoholic. That's not a small thing in his life. He's maintained well. He's a great person, but he's not an alcoholic. A lot of people have problems with alcohol, and it's another substance that it is what it is.

2:31:17Mark ScaldoneCannabis has helped them. In my experience going into places back in the early 90s, coffee shops were allowed to serve both alcohol and cannabis for a while in the 90s. And I experienced...

2:31:29SpeakerBut they didn't, not all of them, Todd.

2:31:32Mark ScaldoneNot all of them, but let me finish my thought. And I experienced that being around people that both smoked cannabis and used alcohol, that they used less alcohol because they had cannabis. Because in America, we stop... Passing out alcohol at 2 a.m. So there's almost a race to get drunk because you know that there's going to be a last call. That doesn't exist over there so much.

2:31:55Mark ScaldoneAnd you have cannabis. So I feel that people like I would sit with Rob. He would have a beer and we would smoke a joint. He wouldn't be pounding beers to get a beer buzz like an American does because he was sitting there smoking some of the best hash we could find at the time.

2:32:10BubblemanYeah, Spain, there's a little bit of drinking that goes on with it, but not anything that's a problem. The one thing that I would say that's a problem is how often they mix tobacco with their hash and their weed, and so I'm going to tell people, if you're going to be in Spain, at Spanibus in Barcelona, La Calada is going to have a tobacco-free room there the whole week.

2:32:35BubblemanSo that's where I'll be hanging out.

2:32:38Etienne FontanAnd don't forget to ask people if their joints have tobacco in them.

2:32:42BubblemanDon't even bother. Assume that they do. Assume that they do have tobacco. I don't smoke joints, so I don't have to worry about it.

2:32:48Mark ScaldoneThe words he uses, pure. Ask if it's pure. They understand pure. Do you smoke pure? It becomes bigger and bigger conversation.

2:32:56BubblemanThis is what they say when you say, is that pure? They'll go, no.

2:33:02SpeakerThe other one is Solo Solo. That means a joint without tobacco. Solo Solo.

2:33:09BubblemanWell, I'm looking forward to Spanibus. I think it's going to be great. We're going to try and throw a Legends of Hash party. Welcome, Etienne. Welcome, Skunkman, Sam. Howdy, howdy, howdy.

2:33:21SpeakerHow are we doing today? Pretty good. I was actually taking a nap and my wife woke me up and said, you're missing church.

2:33:31SpeakerI heard you guys all talking about my little god babies, meaning GW's products. The product in Sativex is actually skunk number one. Right.

2:33:48BubblemanAnd so what's the relationship these days?

2:33:52SpeakerWell, I developed skunk number one, not for them, but for myself, and then gave them a clone that we selected in GW's greenhouse. Right. And we gave them a CBD variety, which they're able to mix very easily and create Cetivix. I'm still really in favor of what I did with GW for one reason. I wanted to bring cannabis back into Western medicine. And GW was willing to walk it through the FDA approval process.

2:34:25SpeakerThat is not an easy road to take, but yet I felt it was necessary to bring cannabis back into Western medicine. Yeah, I mean, of course we can all use it without that, but you have to admit the knowledge that GW has passed on the fact that this actually works scientifically has helped everybody. Right.

2:34:51BubblemanSomeone was saying Mel Frank was part of skunk number one or that he gave you some clones of that.

2:34:56Mark ScaldoneAbsolutely not true whatsoever. That's what I figured. I thought I'd give you the opportunity.

2:35:00BubblemanYou know what, there's so many people spewing shit in the chat room from the, there's a lot of misinformation that's out on the internet and when I say misinformation there might be some things that you get and you understand but then there's other things that you're not getting and not understanding so.

2:35:16SpeakerYeah, feel free to... I got Afghani number one from Mel Frank, and I got indirectly South African, but I had to grow it for like four or five years and clean it up from hermaphroditism before it was usable. But I got both of those from him. That's true. Which one, Afghani and... Afghani number one. And Durban South African, Durban Poison. All right. But the Durban Poison had to do a lot of work.

2:35:50SpeakerThe Afghani number one was ready to roll.

2:35:53BubblemanYeah, no, I don't think he's calling Mel Frank a liar, truth POV. I think he's saying that he knows his truth and he just admitted the two plants that were given to him and maybe Mel Frank meant the Afghani number one when he said skunk number one. You never know. Maybe Mel made a mistake. Maybe we'll invite Mel in and he can talk about it himself.

2:36:12Mark ScaldoneI know, I know, I've heard this story from him and Jim has told me it is Afghani, it's not skunk.

2:36:17BubblemanIt is Afghani number one, truth POV. If he said it on video he made a mistake, probably because he was talking about skunk man Sam and he's famous for skunk number one. It's always someone trying to fucking cause problems, you know?

2:36:32SpeakerMe and Mel get along wonderfully. We've known each other for years and years and years.

2:36:37BubblemanThat's fine. I'm just going to put this guy out. He's now going into different things and he's just trying to... Some trolls are better than others, you know? They'll have this ability to really sort of do the passive aggressive trolling and we don't need that. I like to share the information. There's no reason to... To come cause problems in the chat room.

2:36:58SpeakerWell, but there's a lot of information that out there, you know, especially with some people. That, you know, we know everybody knows each other in this business. People don't realize that. Like Dave and Shanti Baba and all these people. And like you hear a lot of these stupid stories that people write on the internet. They swear that they're truth. And they run to like ten different boards posting all these things that if you know the real story in the background, you know that it's bullshit.

2:37:25SpeakerThere's a little bit of things that are maybe true, like the fact that, you know, Mel passed some genetics on to Sam, but people always want to make a big story about nothing and something that they don't understand.

2:37:39BubblemanWell, the funny one the other day for me, Chimera, was, and it was on an Instagram post, who was also posting all about this You know, these negative sort of stories that have been said about different people, myself included. And the guy wrote on my Instagram account, and we laughed, me, Ron, and my wife laughed about it last night, because the guy was like, yeah, Bubble Man, not all of us are outspending our millionaire wives' money.

2:38:03BubblemanAnd it was just such a funny thing to see. I was like...

2:38:09BubblemanI mean, it was just so, so random and out of left field. I was like, wow, that doesn't even have like any foundation in reality at all, like not even an inkling. But I owned it. I laughed. I thought it was hilarious.

2:38:22SpeakerI was lucky because although my wife is a billionaire, I had Rob Clark who's a billionaire. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still looking to throw around a bunch of money, yeah.

2:38:40BubblemanA couple hundred mil or something, right Rob?

2:38:42SpeakerOh yeah, yeah, that's just today.

2:38:44BubblemanOh wow, that's why you're like, you know, that's why you're Rob Clark, dude.

2:38:49SpeakerYeah, all you rich authors are all alike. Oh shit, eh? Hey, come here, I got a question for you. You've got a CBD variety, right? Uh, yeah, yes. What's it called, CBD Lullaby or something, is that it? Yeah, I've got a couple. They're hybrid varieties, but yeah. Can you say what the lineage is in these? I'm trying to submit a paper here really quick. I was going to email you, but maybe you could tell everybody.

2:39:16SpeakerIt would be interesting. The CBD thing is far out. I like the whole phenomenon. I think the sequencing is going to show this, but let me put it this way, that most of the CBD varieties on the market today are derived from the catatonic. Yeah. That doesn't mean that it's the only one out there. It just means that that's the one that put it through. And that's also, again, why I've been urging Scott and Jaime, and Jaime is, they're both on board, to put in their germplasm for the sequencing projects.

2:39:49SpeakerOh, great. Great. The first CBD project, I mean, variety was actually the one we delivered to GW Pharmaceuticals. That was derived from a land race, interestingly enough. Back to our, ah, the first time the L word comes up today. But, yeah, that's derived from a land race from Turkey. So what are the total cannabs on that plant? Huh? What are the total cannabs on that plant? Grown in the field, it's about 7% every time.

2:40:23SpeakerManicured buds, it could be 10% CBD and less than 0.5%. 1.2% THC. Someone has just submitted a patent or has just been published a patent, an American group out of Colorado, and they're claiming cannabidiol producing plants expressing above 20% total carbs. I believe it's possible. I'm not surprised. That's a pretty wide claim, man. We asked them, we asked GW Pharmaceuticals if they wanted an extremely high one with a built-in THC profile.

2:41:04SpeakerThey said no. They wanted as high of CBD as they could get with as little as THC as possible. And ours still has, gee whiz, it's more than 20 to 1. Maybe it's like 50 to 1 or something. You understand? Yeah, but what's the total, Pat? 7%? Manicured buds, it can be 10% CBD. Okay. Yeah, but we've had a couple of ACDCs that were 20, 21 with under like 0.3%, 0.1% THC.

2:41:38SpeakerThat's 30 to 1. You ask Tony? Yeah, that's a 30 to 1. Susie Q is, Ours, I think, was more like 50 to 1, but it was only 10% CBD manicured buds. And there's Suzy Q. Suzy Q now is a 59, 50-something to 1. But there's definitely strains out there now that are accessible that you can get 20, 21 in those particular ratios. But I don't know about patenting a plant, though.

2:42:11SpeakerThat's like, I don't know how far that's going to really go. Well, their CBD variety was not patented. But I don't know what to say except for that the higher the ratio, the better for GW. They did not want THC CBD. We could have made it for them. They wanted as pure THC and as pure CBD varieties they could find so they could mix it and make a constant norm.

2:42:49SpeakerI got this bag of basically, this is probably about 12 to 14% CBD powder, hemp that we're playing with and this is what this CBD clear came from.

2:43:05BubblemanIs that the shit I cleaned that I was like, what the fuck is this, carpet fibers?

2:43:11SpeakerThat was a long time ago, this is now cut down to a grade A, that was years ago. But this has now changed and they're cleaning it up more. I saw pictures of that carpet dust, weird shit, and Mark was like, hey, I want to show you what decontamination really looks like on an industrial scale. And he's like, here's some, I guess, what they're putting in some pills.

2:43:35SpeakerAnd I looked at it and I was like, oh my God, what is that? And he's like, yeah, I don't know, it's a whole bunch of hair and... There's thistle. There's thistle in there.

2:43:44BubblemanYeah, it was plants that grow in the hemp, and they just go in to harvest it, and they harvest all those plants along with it.

2:43:55SpeakerI've tried to use my method, Sam's secret method, to make 99.9% dry sift. With CBD, I couldn't make it work.

2:44:07HoratioInteresting. Sam, is the strain you made for GW, I think you said it before, is it called Fanola? Somebody said they were growing Fanola here on the island.

2:44:15SpeakerNo, Fanola is an industrial hemp variety that I developed from materials from the VIR. And I gave it to Jace Calloway and he registered it here in Europe. It's a registered low THC legal variety to grow.

2:44:31HoratioIs that connected to the Canatonic line or is it different?

2:44:35SpeakerNo way at all. Was it? Is this Finola you're talking about? Yes. Finola is strictly an industrial hemp variety that was wild from up in the far, far north of Russia.

2:44:49BubblemanRight. I remember seeing Jace talk about it, and he said the thing that he loved about it was that it produced like a high concentration of oil in the seed. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back.

2:45:28SpeakerSome of the other ones, I forget their names, but it would be interesting to know. And it would also be interesting to know maybe for some of this genetic work, those aren't submitted that I'm aware of, that's not my point, but things are submitted that are called auto-flowering. Yes, I've got some from, what's it, some guy named Doc something who was one of the first ones to start auto flowers up in Canada.

2:45:51SpeakerI've got samples. It would be interesting to see how those are because they may well be related to phenola. This is a, nobody's ever told anybody that they used phenola, but it's, phenola is auto flowering. If you just take it somewhere and grow it, it would flower anyway in Canada. But it's not true autoflowering, Rob. It's sort of quasi, because it'll start flowering very early, barely, quote-unquote, determinate.

2:46:18SpeakerBut it is determinate. It ends. Right. Exactly. That's why it's adaptive for the autoflowering, where what was called ruderalis, which was probably Tibor Solasi escaped land-raised hemp from Hungary, that flowering Never really finished. It just went on. It was really much more weedy. Where canola may have started out that way, but what it is now is much more determined, as you're saying. And that adapts it much better for breeding it in and then backbreeding back to cannabis varieties, trying to get a real auto-flowering one that's high in THC.

2:46:55SpeakerAll they've got left, some of these modern ones, about all they have left of whatever cross they did to get the auto-flowering is gone. You know, they really do look like normal, high-test, fuel cannabis varieties, modern cannabis. Rob, can you remember the first stuff that we saw from Neville? It was horrible. Oh yeah, terrible. And it wasn't, the first round of ruderalis, as it was called, it wasn't called autoflowering, didn't do very well.

2:47:24SpeakerIt was supposed to flower early to make early weed, and it didn't work. The whole phenomenon died for about, 10 or more years until the new autoflowering came along. And I think this might have something to do with phenol. Or I'd like to know the other parent. What brought that trait? You know Sasha from Joint Doctor? Yeah, I've got his samples. Yeah, but I'm sure that's where most of the autoflowerings came from in the current market.

2:47:53SpeakerI would be surprised if it was phenol. He claims it's a ruderalis mexican. But it could also be Fanola. Yeah, he had it in eastern Canada for a long time. I think it was still pretty heavy. I don't know. The early lowrider was, in my opinion, not as compact. Well, when Philos does their DNA work, it'll be very clear. Yeah, well, I'd just make sure that you collect enough samples.

2:48:22SpeakerI asked him again about getting the DNA, but he was... You know, a little bit reticent, but I think once he understood the project more, he'd be interested. Yeah, who are you talking about? Lowrider Seeds from the market. I've already got the samples.

2:48:40SpeakerWell, where did yours come from, the Lowrider Seeds? Well, he claims it's from this Rudy Mex, but if Rudy Mex has a finola in it, he wouldn't know, because it was given to him as a fait accompli. This is the guy from Joint Doctor? Yes, correct. Okay, cool.

2:49:03HoratioI guess my last question, sorry, before we move on, is, okay, you've told wonderful tales of this phenol, and now I'm like, okay, do I really have to try? So is it different, does it have that canatonic taste? Because I notice everything that comes from this canatonic has this bitter taste. Thanks for watching. See you next time.

2:49:51SpeakerIt's low profile, and it's very early flowering, and then I learned much more recently that it's auto-flowering. Well, not only that, Rob, but it also gives the highest seed yield of any seed variety. It gives two tons per hectare. Yeah, tremendous. And they go off early, so they stay short, and they aren't big, giant plants in Manitoba. They're manageable, keen harvestable. Sam, can you repeat that seed yield?

2:50:20SpeakerI'm sorry to interrupt. Sam, could you repeat that seed yield per acre? Two tons. Two tons? Is that a metric ton, do you know? Yes. The traditional limit had been one ton, set by Bocho's Unisex. What was Scud? I've never looked at the maximum yield, but I've gotten single plants yield more than a half kilo. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:51:12HoratioDo things that produce awesomes with seeds? This is another weird question. Would it actually have potential to produce better resin than Cannatonic if it's such a good seed producer?

2:51:24SpeakerI can't say that without doing it. All you have to do is grow it since Mia, but I usually grow it seeded, Fanola. Yeah, I think going back to hemp varieties as far as crossing them in for drug buyers is really not a good way to go. You set yourself back genetically too far for the CBD trade. If you're just grabbing the CBD trade, it's a lot easier to just grab it from, like, Cannatonic.

2:51:46SpeakerYep. I agree. What I'm interested in is understanding full auto and partial auto. To me, that's interesting. And if the genes for that could be isolated and they're recessive, that means you've just got to have two parents with recessive genes, make hybrids, and lingo bango. But yeah, I agree. Fanola is not what we're looking for, but it's easy to change terpene profiles. It's fairly easy to change cannabinoid profiles.

2:52:15SpeakerSo yeah, I mean, what's interesting to me is the auto genes, if they can be used in an intelligent manner.

2:52:25HoratioWell, I wasn't saying like to smoke it, but isn't that like a good plant for compounding? Because when I extract, I already have a strong ratio. Like, I wouldn't be looking for that to make recreational dabs, but I don't like that that terpene carries over in distillation.

2:52:46SpeakerIf you're talking about phenola, to me it's not a good variety to grow for CBD. The levels are too low. I wouldn't do it. I've told everybody who told me they were going to do it, I wouldn't do it. That's the Chinese model. That's the model of growing hemp to make a medicine out of it. The reason they do it is because it's legal. These CBD varieties are dope.

2:53:09SpeakerThey're not rope. Fanola is rope. It's just a little short ropey plant. Rope relative. Catatonic is a good plant. It's not type 3. It doesn't breed well. It's a hybrid plant, so it gives the progeny half THC, half CBD. But if you know what you're doing, and you're actually working a breeding program, just with a couple of crosses, you can make it a lot better than it is, or at least smell differently.

2:53:35SpeakerAnd honestly, I think Canatonic has got some great traits. It's a grower's plant, too. It produces a lot. I think that's already happened. I think there's the new varieties you see that I just saw in Humboldt at the end of last year. These guys have done exactly that. They've gotten ones that were closer to true breeding at least, a couple of generations down the way with selecting.

2:53:56SpeakerNow everybody can run down the street to their local analysis lab. How cool is that? We didn't have that back in the day. And they've now crossed it with real dope. I mean, stuff that's high resin producing. That's how these 20, 21, 22 percenters can be coming around. It's only a back cross away from Having something like that, if you put it back on select again, they're going to fire it up there.

2:54:25SpeakerAlso, our CBD variety was grown from seed. So we had a CBD variety from seed or from clone. We had both. But you could grow it outdoors in England and produce a reliable or a pretty reliable CBD crop. So that was pretty important that we could grow it outdoors in England at practically no cost and it was consistent. Hey, Sam, this is Mark. From the phenola strain, you say 2,000 metric tons of seed per hectare, correct?

2:55:02SpeakerCorrect. Okay. Yes, correct, yes. Dr. Okay, so what's the protein yield when you remove the oil from the seeds? I want to get my hands around… I don't know, but it's still more expensive to grow than soy. Dr. Okay, let's forget about the cost for a second. Tell me how many pounds of protein per acre. I'm not sure off the top of my head. Maybe Rob is.

2:55:29SpeakerHe's fairly literate. I'm sort of an unconscious.

2:55:32BubblemanIt depends on how it's processed and what the returns are. Some people get 30% cold-pressing protein powder isolate. Other people get 50% to 60% return on their protein powder isolate because they have a better way to access it.

2:55:46SpeakerOkay, so let's just make some assumptions here. So let's say we can get 2,000 tons of seed per acre or per hectare. You're talking getting 2,000 kilos. Yeah, a metric, 2 metric tons, 2,000 kilos per hectare, not per acre.

2:56:16SpeakerAnd that's a maximum. So let's just say 1,500 kilos per hectare, okay? Let's say that. That would be one if you want to start making estimates and doing math. Don't start at two. That's an agricultural maximum. Okay, so I'm trying to get an idea of how much protein per acre. Forget about cost. How much protein can we get out of that seed? So if it's 1,500... What's a decent number?

2:56:48SpeakerIs that 50% yield on protein pretty good? Dr. I really have no idea. I know that with soy, Dr. If you're doing math here, Dan, I'd go a little lower just to, Dr. With soy, you get a higher percentage of protein from soy than you do from cannabis because cannabis has got the shell and all that kind of crap that's a more Bigger percentage of the total.

2:57:14BubblemanAnd just like the tri-comb, the seed produces certain amounts of protein powder isolate and certain amounts of oil, and those ratios are definitely not the same for every cultivar.

2:57:27SpeakerThat's right. But in terms of pounds of protein per acre. But Mark, you always talk about this, and you talk about it as if, at least if I understood you correctly, you talk about it as if you're using it for a feedstock for animals. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The beauty about hemp seed is actually, like I don't think hemp seed would be able to do that and be comparable to soy, but the beauty about hemp protein is that it's like really an ideal source for the human diet, right?

2:57:57SpeakerCorrect. Yeah, so when you talk about growing like a crop for protein, it would be something that you'd feed to humans, not to animals.

2:58:08HoratioSo basically, you would have to compare it to the protein per acre of a cow and like how far you could get on one hectare with one cow.

2:58:16SpeakerThere's a whole bunch of other stuff that comes into the, it's not about how much protein per acre, it's like how much water per cow goes in, you know what I mean? It's this ridiculous huge number. Exactly. And you can use those, that's what I was talking about before when I met, we could use hemp as a more suitable food source for humans moving forward into the next century, right?

2:58:37SpeakerBecause it's more efficient use of an agricultural system or an agricultural acre. It's more efficient in cows, but it still uses a hell of a lot of water, hemp. To grow it right, you need water. I mean, it's more efficient to not eat animals at all, but that's another point, a more major point in our evolution.

2:58:57HoratioRob, is there room for me to grow the million dollar cow on hemp, though? That should be the ultimate cut of meat.

2:59:05BubblemanThe Horatio Kobe?

2:59:07SpeakerYeah, that'd be it.

2:59:14BubblemanWell, interesting conversation.

2:59:17SpeakerWell, it certainly has to beat soybeans. Soybeans take a whole lot of water, take a whole lot of fertilizer, and take a whole lot of involvement from companies like DuPont, Syngenta, Monsanto, and Dow. And so I think the point is that you can get more protein, more usable protein per acre. I don't have any data to share with you. I'm just going by what I read. More usable protein per acre in hemp than you do from soybean by an order of magnitude.

2:59:47SpeakerLet's just say for a moment that you're correct. Not that I'm saying that, but let's just say you are. It doesn't make any difference, Mark. The cost difference are astronomical. It's a factor of four or five.

3:00:02SpeakerYeah, no, I realize that the cost is the ultimate sort of hurdle here, but here's the thing. If I'm a farmer, and I have a given plot of land, and I have to raise protein on that land, and hemp is not on the list anymore, right? Hemp's not Schedule 1 anymore. I'm going to choose hemp because I'm going to get more protein out of that acre growing hemp than I am soybeans.

3:00:27SpeakerAnd I'm not going to be tied into Roundup Ready This and Syngenta's program of toxic insecticides, right? If hemp does yield more protein than soy, which we haven't proven as effective, but you can find that out.

3:00:42HoratioYou can find out what the yields are. Well, hold on. You can't just eat soy straight out the ground like you can cold press hemp. Soy is a gnarly bit of a plant. It was grown for paint before they found all these ways to turn it into plastic and then turn it into edible plastic. Like, Mark, you need to actually weigh in more than protein and think of all the nutrition that can come out of a hemp plant and then weigh it against soy.

3:01:08HoratioAnd you realize you can't eat the soy without sending it to a factory and sending it back. Well, no, that's not true.

3:01:14SpeakerPeople make soy curd at home. That's not true at all. Alright, I take that back for tofu, but that's a...

3:01:23HoratioIt's only been one billion Chinese for a thousand years. It's not that. It's what I wanted to take back is we, in my culture, I come across the industrial soybean that's been heavily modified. It's not the traditional edible bean. It comes out of the one that was made for car paint for industrial use. But yes, in South Pacific cultures, the traditional soybean... Which is a different, it's different all together.

3:01:49HoratioYes, it does make wonderful tofu.

3:01:52SpeakerRemember that all soy is de-fatted with petroleum-derived hexane. Think about that. Hexane is basically used to remove the oil and the triglycerides in soybean-crushed crops. Dr. Not all soy, because when they make it in China and they've got the soybeans, all they do is make tofu out of it. They're not doing any sort of extraction. Dr. I'm talking about the industrial processing of Thousands and thousands of tons of soybeans which are done at huge multinational corporation owned soybean crushing plants in Canada, in Brazil, and here in the United States.

3:02:35SpeakerOperated by Cargill and Bungee and multinational corporations like that. Rob, remember when we were in Shandong and they claimed that they had a different form of tofu for every day? Indeed. And then I went out to Yunnan Province back in the day and found those Hmong people making hemp seed tofu. Remember I photographed that for Richard? Yeah, I remember. Yeah, that was far out. So there's all kinds of good.

3:03:07SpeakerBasically the same thing. They just used coagulant to make the protein coagulate, drained away the water, and bang, we had not chunks of tofu, but mountains of curd. I'd make cash with that.

3:03:24BubblemanI'd make cash with that. What is it? Sour D. Sour D? Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. The Sour D definitely stacks. How many weeks?

3:03:33SpeakerOh, I don't even know, actually. I've been gone. I haven't been running this garden. This is actually all the ladies work. Pretty amazing. How many weeks? About nine. About nine. I'd say probably a little longer. Some Sour D dankness. It's always nice.

3:03:50BubblemanThere's the Congo.

3:03:52SpeakerOh, the Congo! Is that sour D or sour CBD? No, no, no CBD in this one.

3:04:01BubblemanThat's the Congo, Sam. He's got the Congo there. I know. It was looking good. Ready to party. I know. I actually gave Ron the Congo today. Nice.

3:04:14SpeakerI've got enough to show, but I woke up this morning with black Vietnamese. Ah, it's a black Vietnamese. A black Vietnamese. Very nice. Wiry, wiry stuff. Cheers to the probe. Is that from Dalat? No, I don't know. I don't know exactly. Okay, because I've heard of Dalat versions of that. Yeah. No, Dalat's Central Highlands. There had to be a place where it grows, certainly. But, yeah. So the reason why I brought up that first question a long time ago at like 10.30 was because the value, I wanted to bring it home here.

3:04:56SpeakerI wanted to bring it home. So when we were talking about... Now we were talking about bag seats. My main office. I got some nice...

3:05:07Mark ScaldoneNote the rigs.

3:05:09SpeakerBag seats from a... Real bag seats only come in a brown paper bag.

3:05:16SpeakerWell, I don't have a brown paper bag. So, these seeds came in through another old school guy that's been growing a long time that had a lemongrass Thai land race. And so, now, do we consider these seeds, you know, a waste of time? Or would you consider those, you know... Thank you for joining us today.

3:06:14SpeakerDepending on that answer, you can kind of figure out if they're, or get a good idea of their intercepts or not, right? It'd be nice if you knew who the papa was. I can get that information. This person's been around a long time, so I can get that. Cool. And then, so the first thing that you'd want to do is grow, and I would actually not put emphasis on the males at all.

3:06:38SpeakerI would look at the females. I'd probably, depending on how many, how many plants do you have there? Not many, it looks like six. You got a good eye, there are seven. Yeah, so it's a pretty small number to start with. I think your best breeding bet would be to grow them all. If there are males and females, let them open pollinate. If the females are any good, then don't throw them away.

3:07:02SpeakerYou know, but the females are going to tell you the whole story. You know, if the females are any good, then maybe the males are worth working with. But even still, I would probably not... This flower is very unique. I got it on the stick, and it was... And it's very... It's like... It's like blue lawn, lemongrass, tea, hazy, real hazy type of plant. And there's just a couple seeds in one of the buds, and I know who to ask to get that information.

3:07:33SpeakerBut yeah, I just... If you're that serious about it, I would toss the males if there are any, or open pollinate them to your females, and then take your female clones and sell them all if they're worth it. That would be your best bet. And then you're at least making something relatively true breeding out of what's there, and then you can cross it. But I wouldn't just start crossing males into anything else, because I just...

3:07:54SpeakerI don't believe in that method. Yeah, I know, but that's what I wanted to ask because there's a lot of people out there that get, you know, they get buds and they get like good seeds and what happens from that. So if you're getting it from a land race or you're getting it from, say, using it same sex like female to female, Horatio was asking earlier the value of seeds, finding seeds anymore.

3:08:18SpeakerSo, so many people discard them. And sometimes you get a nice little collection and I wanted to ask your opinion on what you would do with them. That's cool. The real question, I think, Tony, is are they multi-poly hybrids? Because, you know, that's crapshoot. There is no variety usually in a multi-poly hybrid. But, well, they still fall into families. Yeah. The one good, I mean, the thing about finding seeds in bud is that you can do it with a mother.

3:08:53SpeakerIf the mother is like giving up or want to pop the seeds, then hey, pop the seeds. You don't have that many other important projects. I'm just at the point in time now where I have like, I'll never grow all the seeds that I've made. I will never ever grow them. So I have like a list of priority promises that I need to get to every planting.

3:09:15SpeakerYeah, I'm at the phase where I really have never bred anything. So I'm at the completely opposite spectrum and wanted to, for fun, personal, just as I meet different people and I get their different herb and I like it if I find something like that. It's not normal, but I just was like, you know what, this might be a fun project and wanted to see what you thought.

3:09:37SpeakerI think it's cool to grow the male, the female, cross them and do what you said. That's kind of what I was thinking. Then you could get the population a little bigger, but it depends on the man. Yeah. Well, and how many plants, maybe he grew, maybe it was 10 males. You know what I mean? That we're all fathers of different seeds. The most important thing to do when you get any seed, seven is hopefully you get about 100 or more than that.

3:10:01SpeakerAnd if you're truly trying to do preservation, grow them out, let them all open pollen out, and then after that you can do a numerous set of things, whether you're keeping clones of males or females. I think the most valuable thing to do is grow them out, open pollinate them, preserve what's there, and then evaluate your female clones, and if any of them are worth keeping, then I would self those clones, and maybe a few of their siblings, just to keep some diversity.

3:10:28SpeakerAnd maybe remember that every time you self a variety on a population, And use less than 2,000 plants, 1,000 males and 1,000 females. You are losing genes. Yeah. Yeah, and it could be that the plants that you got those 100 or 200 seeds from, or however many seeds you're growing, it might have come from two plants. So, you know, we've already lost a lot. But I think that the plasticity that's in cannabis will afford us at least a few generations of really strict inbreeding As long as we're intentionally creating true inbred lines for breeding, you know, that will then be outcrossed or, you know, sieve-mated or whatever.

3:11:13SpeakerThat puts it in a good perspective, though, from someone sitting at home. They get like 10 seeds and they think they can just grow them out, cross them, and you've already lost the game there because your population is so small. So we talk about true breeding, we're talking about thousands of populations just to be able to find... You know, the gems that we're looking for. Well, if you find, you grow a few seeds and you find something you really like, and you try to preserve it with just a tiny population, then the genes you have in that next generation will not be the same ones that were, there's less.

3:11:54SpeakerSo, yeah. To preserve a variety, you know, you need at least 2,000 plants. And, uh, I don't know anybody that did it, to be honest, other than me and a few other people might have done it, but really. And of course, traditional drug growers in traditional countries, they had huge populations, hundreds of thousands or millions of plants on a variety level.

3:12:30BubblemanInteresting. I bet you would have loved to have walked through a couple of those fields down in Mexico. I did.

3:12:44BubblemanOf course you did.

3:12:46HoratioI found this plant in the middle of the six mile... Back when El Chapo was a baby, I picked this strain at his birthday.

3:13:00SpeakerYou know what I like about Sam is he's always matter of fact. There's never a gray answer. It's always yes, no. Because he's been through a lot of things that, you know, a lot of people in the world are like, oh, I've got a great idea or I think I could do this. He's been there, done that so many times with Robert and people that came way before us.

3:13:23SpeakerPeople don't really realize that or sometimes recognize that. So I want to You know, everything that I think about and how I think is influenced by you guys, and I just wanted to tip my hat to you guys and Cameron and Robert and Sam, you know. To be honest, Tony, we were a research and development company, so I can honestly say that the majority of ideas that we tried came out to be useless, but that was incredibly valuable to know what works and what doesn't work.

3:13:56SpeakerYeah. No, absolutely.

3:14:01BubblemanWhich is exactly why the Jamaican company is a research and development company.

3:14:08SpeakerIt happens all the time in science. If it doesn't happen, you're not doing something right. Yeah. And you learn more from your failures. You learn more from a failed experiment than you learn from one that goes successful because you're learning a little bit about Mother Nature. And you're learning about what you can and cannot do. And I've always taken away a lot more information from experiments that didn't work than from experiments that work.

3:14:36SpeakerIf that's true, then Rob and I are freaking geniuses. Yeah, but it's really cool after having multiple failures to develop this hypothesis that

3:15:08SpeakerThank you for joining us.

3:15:30Speakerof invention and that's a a moment that I hope everyone experiences in their life when when you've done something that no one else has ever done before and that that aha moment of an invention I mean that's the thing that you want to protect with a patent so you I've always been talking with people who wanna file patents on this and file patents on that experience that aha moment as an invention that eureka moment where you're like holy shit look what I've done Then you'll know why you need to file a patent.

3:16:01SpeakerWell, but it's also, there has to be some value to the patent, I guess is what I'm saying. Because, I mean, for example, the first person to cross Indica and Sativa, they must have shit breaks. But now, here we are 30, 40 years later, we can't get rid of the goddamn stuff, white leaf drug varieties. Ask Rob what he thinks of them.

3:16:28SpeakerI've been interested in doing this genome sample collecting for phyllos. It's been really interesting to see how many broad leaflet drug varieties land races are still around. A lot more than the narrow leaf drug ones. They came in ten years later. I guess that's the real difference. Maybe there's a little more awareness about keeping things with them than With all the narrow leaf drug varieties that we lost, but it's, yeah, it's really interesting.

3:17:04SpeakerAnd there are a lot of them around. There's no shortage in the phyllos thing of things that are claimed to be and really do appear to be. And the history is always what I check, how people got them. And there's an awful lot of stuff that came straight from mostly Pakistan, but over the hill from Afghanistan. So Khyber Pass Collections are sort of what I... We classify most of these out.

3:17:25SpeakerThere were guys who went in the early 80s, but Afghanistan had already fallen apart in 79. So these are 78, 79, 80, 81 sort of recessions. There were two or three groups that went there and brought quite a lot of them, and like Bags of seeds. And distributed them. So, yeah, a lot of these people just kept Afghans. And they're still cuttings from Afghans. Very likely, Rob.

3:17:54SpeakerThree or four generation things that are kept quite pure are likely, too. Very likely, when the Afghans were coming in, they saved them more because they were used to the sativas. They'd been growing them for 20 years. They're not growing anywhere. Well, they did. They got hybridized. Yeah, well, it's also pretty, a lot easier to say something that's like producing hounds on a plant and big chunks of nugs that everybody wants.

3:18:20Etienne FontanWe've been testing since 2007, or I've been paying for testing since 2007 from the experimental to now that we've got it. And one of the things we've found is a lot of these current genes have very similar chemical profiles. We had to look for the spike of the CBD and the new spikes and other things like that, but A lot of these bastardized hybrids are very similar in chemical profile across the board.

3:18:50Etienne FontanIt's the anomalies that we like and we never found and that's how we found the CBD, etc. But it was very fascinating to see how very similar they are.

3:19:00SpeakerAnd if you want real anomalies, what you want is Land Race. I mean, that's where you find the diversity. You don't find it in the multi-poly hybrids in America. They're really just slight variations of this one big giant mishmash. Yeah, well, you also got to remember that all the stuff that's common on the market that everybody's growing is what's been selected for by palette. You know, that's kind of what everybody wants.

3:19:23SpeakerYou find some of these strange terpene profiles, and I've seen a few, they're not that tasty smelling. That would get thrown out of the breeding program in a lot of times. So... There's a reason that we're only finding certain things, because we're looking at a pool that only has those things in them in the first place.

3:19:41BubblemanAnd looking at it from a limited perspective as well, you know, when I think of certain terpenes and the modulating effects they have on some of these rosins, dry sips, and bubble hashes that I hit, I wonder if there will be terpenes that maybe on their own don't have the greatest flavor, taste, smell, but when added to a certain profile of cannabinoids and terpenes, it produces this almost...

3:20:04BubblemanI've had now on about five or six occasions, I've had these amazing experiences where I dipped a certain hash into a certain terp, and it was just so much better than the average terp. A terp dip, it was more, it was that ensemble or entourage.

3:20:24SpeakerI agree with you, it's absolutely true that one and one can equal three.

3:20:29BubblemanYeah, that's what I'm saying. So it's just like maybe we'll start looking more for the three and in doing so maybe not try to get rid of terpenes that because we might not understand their value, i.e. they don't smell that good, they don't taste that good, why would I want that? Well, when added to certain profiles, it could really change and create that three that otherwise would not be there.

3:20:52SpeakerWell, and Mark, to be really quite frank, to go back to the Eureka invention moment, that can be a Eureka invention moment where someone who has never put together a certain combination of terps and a certain combination of cannabinoids And you couldn't predict it from everything that's been done before. And you run a particular experiment at a certain ratio with a certain cannabinoid. Yeah, there could be a moment of eureka there.

3:21:21SpeakerThat could be an invention.

3:21:24BubblemanYeah, there's definitely something to be said for it. And I'll tell you, the Master Scout and the Jack Frost Terpene, that was revelatory. That was literally like, woo! I had it again yesterday with OG Kush Full Spectrum Water Hatch. Dipped into the Sunset KB and it was a mildly religious experience. I was shocked at how good it tasted. I mean so good, not fake good, like good, good.

3:21:52SpeakerWhen Rob and I discovered the effects of terpenes and THC and the entourage effect that was all going on in that That was definitely the eureka moment, but we didn't invent it. What we did was discover it. Yeah, yeah, a discovery is also an invention, Sam.

3:22:11BubblemanYou were for sure the first and only person that ever talked about that with me before I heard anyone else even talk about it.

3:22:19SpeakerWell, not only that, but Rob and I did the first work about 2000, but we had talked about this for 20 years off and on before that we suspected that terpenes were modulators and potentiators of THC.

3:22:32BubblemanYeah, I think it was around 2003 I got to see the pure cannabinoids and the pure terpenes on your living room table there and sort of feel the effects. And then years later with Horatio's pure THCA, I can't remember if it was with Tony's terps or with Horatio's terps, but it was definitely, it was noticeable that there was that modulation is pretty hard to deny from a Connoisseur perspective.

3:23:04SpeakerYeah, I mean, if you could actually measure that, I mean, it's not so much a subjective or objective thing because what tastes good to you might taste different to somebody else, but if there's an experimental observable, say like bioavailability or perhaps duration of activity, and again, you do find some non-obvious combination, and you just find that this particular combination is Thank you for joining us.

3:23:45SpeakerYou know, draw these things together and put them together for the first time. And if you've actually documented that no one else has put that together for the first time, and you see some type of effect of that material, that could essentially be the element of a patent. Yeah, it could.

3:24:03Mark ScaldoneNot to sound rude or anything, but you know, I know that for years I've struggled to make this plant free. It hasn't been a protected, so a bunch of capitalists that People could come along and claim that they own the rights of terpene separation, cannabinoid distillation, bucket blasting, or any of this shit. And I've always thought that other people that have patented things that maybe should have went, you know, Sir Isaac Newton and Gravity maybe should have the patent on water hash and not humans.

3:24:30Mark ScaldoneI mean, you know, we've all figured things out collectively and it's fucked up that people come along, see things, and then manipulate the legal system so that they can say because they were the first jerk to get into the patent office with somebody else's idea that they own it. And I think a lot of what us are fighting for is so we'll all have the rights of doing these things and not worrying about, you know, who owns what, little nuance of what it is.

3:24:55Mark ScaldoneWe're organically discovering on our own in many cases.

3:25:00SpeakerSomebody was asking before about a way to evaluate the different subjective effects. Well, we did have a 100-question organoleptic survey before and after all of our tests. So that's the closest we could get. And there was no doubt. We were all pretty much in total agreement, not on what we liked or didn't like, but on what the type of effects is that it made. Sam, is that list published?

3:25:30SpeakerNo, no. It's a 100-page question that we developed in-house.

3:25:35HoratioCan you send that to me? Because I already Googled it and realized it wasn't published in seconds.

3:25:41SpeakerI'm not sure about that because, yeah, I have to think about that. Because it's part of our work and it's proprietary, actually.

3:25:58SpeakerWell, I guess Todd says everything should be free and available. Come on, Sam. That's no problem. Todd is very welcome to freely distribute his list. That kind of comes back to the whole point about patents. Sometimes you can patent, sometimes you can't. I don't know if you can patent a specific terpene combination and effect. I did share it with Rob and Ryan.

3:26:28HoratioNo, but if Sam bases companies' decisions on this test, and that's their main critical criteria to... No, no, no, no. No, but like, even subtly, it makes a big difference.

3:26:39SpeakerIf you have a hundred... It was just a list of questions that we used for a particular test. It was no... Groundbreaking or revolutionary, you know, it was just what we used.

3:26:49HoratioYeah, but look at it this way. I was like, okay, I'm going to go over to Bubble Man's house and let's do it different this time. I'll take the best five questions they use to judge experience in like a product out of cup. And then you're like, we had a hundred question thing and I'm like, oh my God, that sounds accurate. I need that. That's a 20x jump in intellectual quality.

3:27:11HoratioSo yeah, it becomes...

3:27:12SpeakerWhen we decided that we needed it, we created it.

3:27:18HoratioLeveraged on your big brains of many, many years. We should all just create our own.

3:27:23SpeakerI'm sure we could come up with our own lists on our own. It's probably the same damn questions. It's not that hard. I wouldn't think so. I think today I could probably do a lot better one. Yeah. Yeah, but... Yeah. It is a point though, it's like there's some things that you spend a lot of time putting energy into and it's like you're not just going to give it away for free.

3:27:47HoratioWell, that's the thing. No one ever counts how much intellectual property just goes down as standard trade secret, which is the... It's no different than a chicken recipe. It's like, how come I don't have the opportunity to have my Colonel Sanders chicken become different than all the other chicken manufacturers? Why is it that as soon as you discover these spices work together, you have to divulge your two years worth of practice and experience and materials to the public so they can go and get an investor?

3:28:16HoratioIt's this complicated world now. We live in where you want to be what Todd wants, but you know who's watching.

3:28:35SpeakerI would say that when it comes to intellectual property, you know, I've given really a lot of it away. But at the same time, too, certain things I wanted to protect. In the end, these questions will not be important. But what happens if I want to sell my company? Then that's sort of part of the intellectual property that goes with the company.

3:29:06SpeakerThe Sam's Secret Hash Method.

3:29:12SpeakerA special for you, $9.99.

3:29:18BubblemanOr what about 99.9999?

3:29:24BubblemanMaybe next week.

3:29:27SpeakerNice. Excellent.

3:29:29BubblemanWhat about you, Ron? You've been quiet. You got anything you want to share with the Hash Church audience out there? People have been like, I want to hear a Ron story. You guys are hash.

3:29:35SpeakerI'm a grower. I've been a grower for 45 years. I think about when you guys talk about the different cultivars. I think I'm so happy over the years. Skunk Mat, Sam's, we called it Donkey's Dong when I was 45 years ago in the late 70s. That was turning rich. That was so stinky I would hug a girl and she would say, Ron, you reek. That was released in about 76 or 77.

3:30:05SpeakerWe didn't have cam filters and all that shit. We'd have one light or one plant. Those plants had such big, broad leaves. They were huge. Not indica-like. Almost like it was like how my favorite tree has grown now over all the years. It's usually about a 60% indica, 40% sativa.

3:30:26SpeakerAnd I smoke when I grow. I love my hashback. It can actually be 25% indica and 75% sativa, like skunk number one. And it still looks fairly indication. It sure did. That was just wow. We had huge leaves. People don't see fan leaves, or we called them shade leaves back then, like in those days. The leaves, you couldn't put them in a Bible or something. That's the one leaf.

3:30:51SpeakerDo you remember that, Sam? How big those leaves were? We put one plant, one light. We'd start out with 400s with the little guys and have one sale with a big closet back in the 70s because you had to hide things. We'd stick up the whole streets with that good, real, true skunk reefer. We called it Donkey's Dong, too. I don't know. We didn't worry about breeding back then.

3:31:14SpeakerWe just got some really good for the head. Skunk number one was marketed as having donkey-sized heads. Buds. But that doesn't mean you had skunk number one, but it was also stinky as fuck and it caused a lot of problems, legal problems for growers. Oh, it was terrible. But we wish we had skunk number one. Whatever it was, I wish I had it again. When I heard you talk about seeds, you have bags of seeds, holy crow, put us back in the late 70s and 80s.

3:31:44SpeakerBecause forget all the Mexican stuff that we didn't even want to deal with, other than Acapulco Gold. That stock was amazing, but now I've had a hash plant that I've kept in the family for almost What, 25 years? Mark, when he was just a young guy coming around before, it was one of his favorites.

3:32:03BubblemanYeah, the bush hash.

3:32:04SpeakerPeople called it the Ooga Booga, Oongwada Kick Booty. They had different kinds of names for it. But you always knew when you finished growing it, there was people that were just dying to have it. The Ongwada Kick Booty. The grower's dream, to be finishing something, looking at it for the last three weeks while it's flushing, and looking at it just rosny up and smelling so wild. It's going to get you in trouble if you don't have it.

3:32:27BubblemanI dare anyone to come up with a more unique name for your cultivar than the embody.

3:32:35SpeakerI used to test people by what certain friends would sweat as soon as they had it. All we did was smoke joints back then. We didn't do anything else other than hot knives. That was our original dabs.

3:32:49SpeakerThey were hard on us. How many times did we burn our lips?

3:32:53BubblemanI personally didn't burn my lips, but I burned my lungs from how hot those goddamn knives were. I'll tell you that much.

3:32:59SpeakerI have a historical question. Now, is this a commonwealth thing? The Aussies' hot knife, the Kiwis' hot knife for sure. You know, they call it spotting. And did Canadians do this too?

3:33:16BubblemanI mean, come on, how in the world did you get what's out of this? From like Saskatchewan and then East. I don't know if it was as big out in the West Coast, but like... In the 70s, maybe. And even 90s. Really? Yeah.

3:33:28HoratioAnywhere where you can get hash more than weed. Anywhere that you can get hash more than weed. Hot knives. Yeah.

3:33:35SpeakerListen, as soon as the colds came into play, that's when the cotton eyes lost their touch.

3:33:41BubblemanRight.

3:33:41SpeakerAnd if I want to say something, I watched the hash church a long time ago, and people were talking about the wrappings of hash. And I sat there, I was sitting in the back of laughing, because I was thinking, when I used to buy, I bought 10 ISO 2s, these isomizers, and I would get this red Lebanese hash for you hash people. I'd buy it in bags, and they were cotton bags.

3:33:58SpeakerThey were kilo bags, and I'd rip the bag. I'd get a razor and slit the bags, and we didn't have micro razors in Thank you so much for joining us.

3:34:30SpeakerThat imprint on the bag. That's nice. Do you remember that?

3:34:34BubblemanOh, I do. I was only really caught the end of that. When I was very young, I remember getting red and blonde Lebanese hash in those. And I didn't get kilo ones.

3:34:44SpeakerI got... 1,000 grams was what they were then.

3:34:47BubblemanI think the ones I was getting were much smaller. They were like 250 grams or something. I think two of them made a pound. They were about like this big. Yeah, they're bigger. Not quite that big for me, but you were 10, 15 years before me.

3:35:00SpeakerFor all you breeders around the world, all I know is for the pot that I bought, the best pot I ever bought was Cambodian. That pot, I put it away, I came in bricks, it was in a boat for like 10 or 15 years. Okay, time out.

3:35:14BubblemanDid you buy this at one of those auctions?

3:35:16SpeakerAt a New York auction.

3:35:17BubblemanOkay, so you should tell them about these auctions.

3:35:19SpeakerThese auctions were a really good thing. I didn't get to go to them, but my guys supplied me. We're going to New York. He'd go to these auctions. If I tell him... What year? About 77, 78. So these are auctions? New York City? Anyways, I would tell him pre-hand before he would go away. There's the bag. Right on. What a pleasure to be in this hash church with all these truly, truly great hash and marijuana pot people.

3:35:48SpeakerYou're all great. But anyways, he's got the bag. He says it's perfect. What was I going to say? I am pretty stoked. You were just talking about da-da-da-da-da-da.

3:35:58BubblemanIt was a good one. We can't forget.

3:35:59SpeakerThe auction in New York City. The auction. They would almost work good again now. With my guy, I would tell him I would give him authorization to pay $5,000 a pound for true molly-wolly or $5,000. Thanks for watching.

3:36:35SpeakerBut it sure is low compared.

3:36:36BubblemanSo you got the Cambodian. Didn't the Cambodian come in a boat or something?

3:36:39SpeakerYeah, the Cambodian was, what happened to get here, they loaded it from Cambodia in a boat, but because there was a lot of heat, something happened back in the politics back then. The boat went to a different country and got dry docked and got worked on and welded and everything else. All these blocks of Cambodian were welded inside to the hull of the boat. So anyways, the boat got dry docked and sat in this country for four or five years just on dry dock.

3:37:05SpeakerAnd then finally when it came, it got to New York. We got the whole story out because it was part of the auction. They told you, okay, this pot came, was shipped in 1967, and it arrived in this place here, but my pot guy told me the story. And so anyways, and so he bought that pot. I paid him 4,000 a pound for that pot. And it came, I would draw lines in it, inch by whatever it would make an ounce when I cut that brick up.

3:37:35SpeakerAnd I'd go to my buddy's meat store, we'd put a new blade in the saw, and I'd already have marked, put scratches on them, and I'd cut them all, it just smelled neat, I'd cut them all to the one ounce blocks. But I would take my own blocks, I'd put maybe about 10, 20 pounds away, and it was such a good pot that I'd have my Christmas pot, I'd bury it in a rock at the lake.

3:37:55SpeakerI'd dig a hole, put it in a jar, put the jar in the ground, put the dirt back over top of it.

3:38:00BubblemanYou guys used to bury a lot of shit.

3:38:02SpeakerI always buried it. Why not? That's what you say. If you put a big rock on top of it, nobody's going to dig it up. But then you've got it for Christmas time because you've already smoked it if you didn't put it away. So for July, the long weekend, I'd have the lake. We'd be ready to go for package number one. I could go and dig under that rock.

3:38:18BubblemanI remember you said you never had to put it in a bag. It always sat out on the table like a piece of hash. People would just be like shaving. I love old stories like that. Your favorite experiences in these magical little moments of those great strength.

3:38:32SpeakerIf the pocket would be close to being hashed, that stuff was so hard pressed and so bright green. One of my favorite pots in the world was Cambodian, hard pressed like that. I can't believe how I can do it. And of course, Thai weed, like Sam says, I've got that story, taking the buds and throwing them against the wall to see if they stick. I never got that good a pot, but great story.

3:38:55SpeakerWe used to call that the Italian best. That's the best. I love that one. I was in the battle loving that story.

3:39:02BubblemanWe always called it the poster test. I was like, can I take a bud and put up a poster on my wall with it?

3:39:10SpeakerThis guy here, I used to have to always impress him with buds, because the young guys, well, you're probably like 17, 18 years old. He was so, so, so, the minute I met him, he came in, he was so, so into activism about pot, about everything. They had a store called The Hemp Exchange in our, we had a really, really, really conservative city, and they put their store, The Hemp Exchange, right downtown, right beside the police station.

3:39:36SpeakerAnd it was so great the way they had. I had about a 20-year collection of magazines. Didn't I just donate a few guys? I was just so impressed. You did.

3:39:45BubblemanIndeed, those guys still have them.

3:39:46SpeakerI said, I want this place to have all my 20 years of high time.

3:39:51BubblemanI remember when we brought you to the hemp field for the first time and you damn near had tears in your eyes.

3:39:55SpeakerI did, I did. Going to the hemp field in an orange Volkswagen van, 1976 or 77? 74. 74, in an old Volkswagen van, listening to probably Jerry Garcia, Dupain, some Housley good tunes.

3:40:08Etienne FontanDefinitely.

3:40:09SpeakerPulling into a field with 12, maybe 10 foot high plants. They were so beautiful, driving down a road, down the field in the plants, and one week we crushed a plant. Right through the middle. And we washed the plants all down, and I'm feeling it, and I'm like, no! And we come back a week later, and they had knots in them, and they were still growing back up again, that helped.

3:40:29SpeakerAnd just knowing that that farmer was going to be getting his land. Like, regenerated by those hemp roots going way down the soil and breaking up that soil so the next crop could go under. It's so well-killed without having to spend all that petroleum money to till that soil. That is so bad. And then put the nitrogen down the ground. I was excited that day. That's enough of that.

3:40:49BubblemanThat was 20 years ago plus. 21 years ago that happened in 1995. And for Ron, Ron had already served five plus years in a federal penitentiary for just cannabis. So it was like, now he's in his own province that he just served this time in, kind of before it was really becoming like, he definitely didn't, people didn't think it was going to happen.

3:41:11Mark ScaldoneNo.

3:41:12BubblemanWhen we were like, oh yeah, we're going to approach the government and see if we can get some hemp growing, people were like, and our supporters would say, yeah, that'll happen when hell freezes over. So luckily enough, hell freezed over just that year.

3:41:24SpeakerI can't believe I lived, I'm 61, I can't believe I got, I get to see it all change, and I have a license myself, and These put me in prison for growing the plants and now I get to have them and the police come to my house. The funny story is I had too many plants outside. My license is for indoors for 200 plants. Now I had my, so it was July and it was hot, hot, hot.

3:41:45SpeakerAnd I had about 60, probably six foot tall plants, some sweet skunk, thanks to Breeders Steve, out in my yard. Beautiful, beautiful plants. And Steve would love to get that outdoor gorgeous sun. Well, guess what happened? A cop car drives up. He pulls in his Suburban, and he goes, hey, holy, I live in a really great community, by the way. He pulls, he goes, hey, Ron, I want to make sure you got a license, because, of course, with our licenses, we don't have to let, they don't know we have a license until we show up to them.

3:42:14Etienne FontanRight.

3:42:14SpeakerSo anyways, so I said, hey, I'm okay, I have a license. He looks at my license, he goes, yeah, but it's only for indoors. And I went, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's so hot. It's July 15th. It's like 90 degrees and it's beautiful. They shouldn't be indoors. They should be out here. He goes, well, he says, but I don't care. He says, hopefully the law is going to change to get better for marijuana.

3:42:35SpeakerBut he says, I can't leave those plants aside. So you put them inside the shop and everything's all good. So I said, do you want to help me move them in? He goes, no, I'm just going to sit here in my air-conditioned Suburban and watch you. And that's how neat the cops have gotten now. I've never got to see that before. Whenever I see cops about marijuana, I was being busted.

3:42:56SpeakerI was on the news. Yeah, no shit.

3:42:59BubblemanAnd so for those of you that don't know, the second time Ron's bust came around, this was like what I would consider potentially the lowest quality move a human being could pull, which was to pretend she had cancer, correct? Yeah. A woman pretended she had cancer, approached Ron, and got him to supply her with cannabis. And so he supplied her with, I don't know, nine or ten pounds, eventually.

3:43:22SpeakerI'll give you a story. There's probably some hardcore guys somewhere. Isn't, you know, there's like over a thousand people, I'm guessing, listening to this. And there's people all over the world listening to this. Which is really neat, because you guys think about it. That cafe that everybody was talking about earlier, I wish they could have, like we were talking about Amsterdam or else. I thought cannabis culture in Vancouver is a pretty good place where people share a lot of information.

3:43:45SpeakerTake their hashes and share their hashes with each other.

3:43:47BubblemanThis is a virtual version.

3:43:48SpeakerBut this is a virtual version. That's better because everybody can be sitting back having a hot chocolate. If they want alcohol, they can have it overseas if they want at the same time. They can have anything they want, a chai tea latte. But everybody can puff together and pass all this. And the records get straight. With Scott and Sam, with Mel Frank, with all these big names.

3:44:05SpeakerEverybody gets this. I think this is the best house church ever. I'm liking being on it. You guys are tough.

3:44:12Etienne FontanWell, Rob and I...

3:44:19SpeakerWorking in Amsterdam with the International Hemp Association, we did pretty much the same thing, but not only did we help Canada, we helped Central America, South America, Asia, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa. They all started hemp programs under our tutelage or assistance to get their laws changed. When you look in Europe now, you could basically grow hemp in any European country. America's really, and even its hemp walls are crumbling, but America's the last standout.

3:44:58BubblemanFor us, a big connection for us was John Stahl. Do you remember John? Yeah, sure. Yeah, so he was who we met. He came to the Cannabis Cup by accident thinking it was going to be like a hemp symposium. He was totally bummed out. And so we met him. He was this expat living in Ukraine, and he was hanging out with Goro Barotko and all those guys from the basket.

3:45:21SpeakerYeah, he brought all their hemp varieties to the IHA and also distributed them other places also.

3:45:28BubblemanSo that's where we met him, and that's really how it kind of came to be when he was like, we have this low THC cultivar, Zolotinotia, and we were like, oh, wow, and the Ukraine and Manitoba have very similar sort of varieties. Grow Seasons and Altitude and everything is very similar, so it made sense to work with, I mean we tried other cultivars, but it seemed like the Zola Tenosha was the most successful one for growing in and around Manitoba.

3:45:58BubblemanIs that Diocious or Venoscious? Diocious. Well, it was. We were using the 11, the 13, and the 15, the Zolotinosha of each of those. I don't know where they're at now. This was 20 years ago. They could be at Zolotinosha.

3:46:15SpeakerHow about the difference? If they were Venosha, she'd know it in a hot second.

3:46:22BubblemanSo yeah, you were, we were going to tell the crazy story of how you ended up getting popped by the lady pretending to have cancer because she was trying to...

3:46:30SpeakerDoes everyone hear that though?

3:46:31BubblemanI think it's a crazy story that's worth, like it's, because it's, first of all, we like to tell stories of the injustices of cannabis and how we need to overcome those injustices. And for the way you got busted was kind of like, I mean it's one thing to rat on someone, it's another thing to... Intract someone to how they think you're dying of cancer.

3:46:52SpeakerDr. Her husband was a lifer. My first bid, I didn't pen. My first bid, I got sentenced to six years. My next bid, I got sentenced to 12 years for nine pounds. The judge hated me because I made him go through a three-month trial. I wanted rats to be rats. I knew they were rats. The cops would say to me before the court, Hickey, why didn't you plead guilty?

3:47:12SpeakerYou got a rat. And I go, hey, listen, I want that rat to come up and eat his cheese. I want him to come up and have to tell you. If he wants to be a rat, there's no secret rat in my case. So anyway, so I made them do three months. But in that three months of trial, I hired a lawyer that worked with Pierre Trudeau when Trudeau was making the first constitution.

3:47:33SpeakerAnd this lawyer had won one entrapment case. I've heard Todd talk about entrapment for a few people. It's so neat because I love to explain the neat thing about entrapment in Canada. So anyways, so through the trial, because the cops are all boisterous, because they go, yeah, you can ask them questions. Well, did the lady tell you she was dying of cancer? Yes. We told you to stop doing it.

3:47:52SpeakerWell, that all makes a contrast. Cops don't know that when they're doing their, they're just, they know you're guilty. They know they're a screw. Yes, they don't care what they say. So anyways, so I got three months, about 12 years on that. And after, and then because the judge hated me. And so I had a three-month entrapment hearing after that, and the judge came back, and there's 100 cops on one side of the courtroom and 100 of my friends on the other side of the courtroom.

3:48:17SpeakerAnd the judge goes, Mr. Hickey, you proved your case to be entrapment. And then he goes, but... He says, on the best names of society, on my whole history on the bench, I've never had to use Section 1 of the Charter against you, but in the best interests of society, I believe, and you can appeal me whatever you like, but I believe that you would have done this with or without the enticement of the entrapment, a moral culpability or whatever it was called.

3:48:48SpeakerSo I'm invoking Section 1 of the Charter. Even though you were entrapped, You're still going to be found guilty. So because of that, he gave me 12 years.

3:48:57BubblemanSo you got 12 years for selling a woman who was pretending to have cancer, nine pounds of weed. Okay, but why was she doing it? Because she got her husband and she got in trouble in jail and she went and made a deal with the cops. And because he needed yard time.

3:49:11SpeakerNo, no, no. Wasn't it some ridiculous... She got caught taking drugs into him. Right. So they were going to stop her from being able to visit him again. Okay. But that's like a drug now.

3:49:20BubblemanAnd he was a double ax murderer?

3:49:21SpeakerNo, he was a double ax murderer. He didn't care though. He didn't know any of this. Yeah. And so she just made a deal. Well, hey.

3:49:29BubblemanSo not 12 years you get it for that.

3:49:31SpeakerSo I peeled it for nine pounds a pot 12 years, but I went to the appeal court, so everybody goes, wow, that's a lot of time. And the appeal court, and I won my case with a lawyer, I won my appeal, the appeal court said, yes, Mr. Hickey, but 10 years ago, the courts gave you six years and that was justified, and now you come back 10 years later.

3:49:50SpeakerAnd you want to tell us that yes, everybody else with nine pounds of power across this country, per se, to have it continue, how do you say, the same of all the results of all trials across Canada, yes, somebody else with nine pounds should get five years, but because you got six years before, we can't give you less than what you had the first time, and we think it's appropriate To bring your sentence down to nine years though.

3:50:19SpeakerSo the 12 got reversed down to nine, thank God. But it's my second time so I had to do six of it. But you know what, when you go in for like Tommy Chong or Mark Emery or anybody, you go into prison and you're a true marijuana person, all you get is respect. Like the prison system, they hate me saying it now, but they used to make sure I got marijuana because it was like the peace pipe.

3:50:43SpeakerWe had two gangs in our prison. It was a really terrible prison, 600 native inmates, and they're all tough, and they all come from different circles, Native Syndicate, Indian Posse, and Mountable Warriors. And if they all got to hate each other, and there was 300 on this side and that side, the tension, we didn't want to fight because we were locked in our cells forever while dealing with the investigation.

3:51:02SpeakerSo, but the tension was going like that. All of a sudden, in the middle of the night, a clump would happen in my cell, and someone would hit my floor, and it would be, and the only people on the range were the guards then, and I'd have, and all of a sudden, I'd get up real quick and look at it, and it was a bit of pot, and I'd actually be looking down at the pot, and I'd have to hide it and get it back, you know, get it down on the range seat, and call it another search in the morning.

3:51:22SpeakerBut anyways, and... If I was to smoke pot on one side of the courtyard with the president of the one group and the president of the other group, the leaners, and all their people would be sitting all on the other side of the jail yard, this great big festive, like big walled yard, they'd watch both their leaders puffing together. And then we'd send some reefer home with them.

3:51:48SpeakerNo more wars. Everything was fine. So it was really, it was a peace pipe even in prison. And I think anybody would say that You know, like, you can't talk about it much, but I know the prison I was at was a heavy-duty, heavy-duty prison. And if we didn't have marijuana, alcohol would have taken over, heavy drugs would have taken over. It was really, it was a great thing to have.

3:52:04SpeakerIn prison, too.

3:52:06BubblemanYeah, no shit.

3:52:08SpeakerSorry about that. We're not having guys.

3:52:11BubblemanHey, you shared some stories.

3:52:15SpeakerYou guys there? Yeah, thanks for mentioning Garcia. We appreciate you saying that. I think the problem with pot in prison is it's so freaking stinky. Sometimes they hoop it right up there, they keep it up their bums. Yeah, by stinky I mean you've got to smoke the stuff. Yeah, I know. The last time he gave a shit he said that smoking doobies is only for, I think he said women and slaves.

3:52:49SpeakerI don't know who would say something like that. Okay.

3:52:54Mark ScaldoneI smoked in the bathroom most of the time.

3:53:00HoratioJust think about it, Todd. Go back in time with a hair straightener and think about how many cigarettes would be awesome without all that weed smell. In prison, everyone would grow, well, I mean, there was already Jerry Curls in prison, but everyone else would grow long hair and just, there would be a hair straightener craze. You could just go back in time. Prison could be lit.

3:53:20Mark ScaldoneNo, it's a little weird. You know, I was in a prison where they allowed tobacco to be sold and there were lighters on the yard and rolling papers were available because they sold like the little pouch tobacco, top tobacco or whatever the F it was. So it was weird that there was people smoking hand-rolled cigarettes everywhere and that was perfectly okay. So there was a lot of You know, the ability to blend, you know, you're sitting on the...

3:53:46Mark ScaldoneI literally, literally honestly walked into prison, was there not even ten minutes and saw somebody that I had met in holding years earlier and he brought me to what was the South Yard and we smoked a joint together. Sitting under a gun tower and I was in jail literally ten minutes.

3:54:08HoratioThat's the Todd McCormick service, Nick.

3:54:10Mark ScaldoneNo, I was just talking to the guy who was a glaucoma patient, man. You know, actually, he was a great guy. Went on to become a nurse when he got out of prison, and he was actually never in a gang. He was fucking in the Air Force. Got caught running drugs, and they kicked him out, and he was charged as a civilian. Yeah, nice guy, actually. Suffering from glaucoma and smoking weed while he was in jail.

3:54:34BubblemanWell, that's definitely a good vibe to sort of manifest for your first ten minutes in a In prison.

3:54:42SpeakerAnyway, no more prison for pot.

3:54:44Mark ScaldoneNo more prison for pot. I agree totally, man. Going to jail for flowers is ridiculous to me, but how many of us do, unfortunately enough?

3:54:54BubblemanIt always brings me back to your statement some hash churches ago where you're like, we're habitual florists. Habitualflorists.com. Someone buy that right now.

3:55:10SpeakerAll right, bong hit, everyone. Bong, Rick.

3:55:36HoratioSam, do you ever answer to, like, I remember one hash church, Mark was answering somebody in the chat, and he was like, no skunk man Sam didn't create me in a lab. Like, how comic book, like, ridiculous have some of the rumors about you become? Like, do you enjoy it? Well, I am in league with the devil.

3:55:59SpeakerI'm immortal. Yes, I don't know. If you could think of it, it's, I'm sure, been accused.

3:56:11HoratioIt's just one of these funny things where I'm like, wow, it becomes this real... Because it's funny, I'm like, wow, I could just ask you anything, but at the same time, I'm like, is this the same guy that literally had a blind? You would just imagine Sam as this seven-foot-tall dude with a... Comic Book Batman Beard, and yeah, Immortal, Devil Worshipping, Super Strain Creating, you know, walks through any border.

3:56:37HoratioI'm at least ten feet tall.

3:56:39SpeakerYeah, I was going to say, he's taller than me.

3:56:41BubblemanYeah, he's like seven foot nine. I do look down at Tony. From the coffee table.

3:56:54HoratioThat's why you breed those plants. I'm like, why don't you like small plants? He's like, I like big plants. I'm like, maybe this guy's 10 feet tall and his, you know, donkey dick nugs are just bigger.

3:57:02SpeakerPart of the reason that I breed big plants is I want to grow them in the ground big to see what their ultimate capacity capability is. I'm not interested in how they would perform as a little tiny one foot plant hydroponic. It doesn't matter to me. I'm looking at the big picture over the long term. Outdoors. Go outdoors. Outdoors or greenhouses because I had plenty of greenhouses where I could grow plants that were 15, even almost 20 feet tall.

3:57:37HoratioOkay, then I got a question for you. Now we have that, like I'm in Ron's situation where outdoors is a no-no, but is that hemp that you did develop, like you were saying it's autophon, I'm like that's perfect. I get what I get, but I could perpetually plant all through the season. Would it smell like weed? Like if I don't, if it doesn't smell like weed, then I don't have a problem because no one can look at it.

3:57:59SpeakerIt depends what you're talking about. If you're talking about phenola, then it's hemp. If you talk about F1, a phenola and a drug variety, then it's halfway between them. If you talk about, you know, seriously worked in several generations, you can get stuff that's basically dope with just the phenola autoflowering parts of it and very little else. Well, which would you recommend if I put, like, other than...

3:58:26SpeakerI wouldn't recommend finola unless you're after... I don't know what you're after, but to me, finola does not make pot better. It just makes it more convenient and able to be grown in places where it can't be grown under normal circumstances.

3:58:42HoratioYeah, that attribute plus, is it appropriate if I'm looking for raw precursors? So instead of having to fraction a bunch of shit, I just deal with the... It's mainly CBD as it is and I can work from there. Yeah, but the levels are low compared to the varieties that are so much higher. No, that's what it is. What should I be seeking? Because when I talk to somebody who is growing for now, he's like, I don't control the seed supply and there's no clone.

3:59:08HoratioI'm forced to take in new input and I'm in trouble if I keep seeds. And I'm like, oh, you're under one of those Monsanto controls where you can only take Thank you for watching.

3:59:33HoratioWhere does it fit in? Like, I would rather have, if I could outdoor something, yes, it would have to not be weed in order to succeed.

3:59:40SpeakerI'm not sure if any of these CBD varieties or the CBD THC varieties that people have can be grown outdoors. Do you know that, Ryan? Depends on where you are. I'm in Epic Canada. I'm in Maple Ridge, for instance. There's some auto CBD stuff that would probably be more effective. It's hemp, dude. It's vanilla. It's hemp. The cannabs are low. The terms aren't low. You have to process a shitload to get any amount of product.

4:00:11SpeakerIf you had a variety that produced two or three times as much. The only advantage in it is it's legal. Its cannabinoid content is not a drug variety. It's not legal to extract it in Canada. You can't take it. Okay, so then it's illegal to grow cannabis. Yeah, well, you'd need a license. You'd still even just, it's not like, I don't know if in Europe you can just plant, but in Canada you sure can't.

4:00:35SpeakerIn the Netherlands, yes, you can just plant Fanola outdoors. It's on the EU list and you can do it. You don't need a license to do it. But if you want to get subsidy, you have to give them your location, the date you plant, all that kind of stuff if you want to receive the EU subsidy, which most hemp farmers in the EU make more money from the subsidy than they do selling their products.

4:01:01HoratioIn my case, it would be like, well, I have 20 plants left on my license. If I bought a greenhouse and grew whatever I could to be that eight-footer, could I produce enough raw input?

4:01:12SpeakerYou wouldn't want to grow a finola. You'd grow something else. You'd grow a CBD variety. Even Canatonic would be better. Right.

4:01:18HoratioAs soon as I grow Canatonic in that greenhouse, I'm going to get a problem in my community. That's what I mean. There's some times where I don't care if I get five times less, I'd rather get, because there's no more room in my facility to devote to something as frivolous as hemp. Do you have an indoor-outdoor license? Basically, all that Health Canada allows you less is if you create an outdoor, a semi-transparent structure is considered indoors.

4:01:44SpeakerYou don't need a greenhouse for finola. You can grow it outdoors.

4:01:52SpeakerYeah, I don't know. I don't think it would be worth it. No, I didn't say it would be worth it. I said you could grow it outdoors in Canada. That's all I'm saying. It will finish outdoors in Canada.

4:02:04HoratioWhat else could you recommend that terpene-wise wouldn't produce that... Traditional issue, so that something more crude could be produced outside, like in a polytunnel. Obviously something that would totally get busted or raided if it had a hint of weed, but It's the only thing everyone with an acreage could do as a community service.

4:02:30SpeakerTo be honest, I haven't grown that many other CBD varieties. And I always was doing my growing in a greenhouse, so I wouldn't really be sure. But maybe Tony or one of the other people can give you suggestions in Canada, whether it be in a greenhouse, under lights, or indoors. But... Yeah, I'm not really sure. If I was going to grow CBD, I would grow my variety, but I've licensed that to GW, so.

4:03:04HoratioSo you can't send any seeds. Tony, is that the case? Like, everyone seems to just try to carry over the cannabinoid into the strain, so it doesn't seem like anybody would be breeding towards a scentless, gorilla-grow variety. Basically a cannabinoid only, like not for smoking, pretty much purely for extraction variety of cannabis. Like is anything like that cropped up in the outdoor segment in California?

4:03:29SpeakerThere's lots of low odor varieties around that are more older, but we're moving away from that because it's so based on smell right now, you know? Everything's based on terms. Everybody wants something that's loud. A couple things that I've seen out here was there's not a lot of that, but I can tell you that like some of the work that Ringo... Lawrence was doing. He left behind some different things.

4:03:52SpeakerAnd the recent one was Ringo's Gift. That was bred to under .03% THC and like 9% to 11% CBD with only myrcene as the terpene. There's a Harley Sue that has that. There's some varieties that I've seen that are CBD. One type of cannabinoid, one type of terpene, but there's not a lot. Are those grown outdoors, Tony? All of them. That's nice. Yeah, and they're all myrcene dominant, pretty much.

4:04:30HoratioThat's a terpene that becomes a problem. It's so dominant and it's so gooeyly bonded to the plant that it seems to be why everyone leans towards this crystallization as the only means to standardize a product, but I don't Care for that, you know, let's just crystallize it to not deal with it. Is there, so it's always Mersene. That seems to be the thing that hounds through in that.

4:04:54SpeakerIt's not always Mersene. It's just that that's almost all of them are like that. Yeah, absolutely. THC. I'm sorry. No, that's okay. Excuse me. I was just saying, it's like an Arubix cube. That's like the first color. It's like the easiest one to probably start to isolate with the other cannabinoid because CBD is paralleled with that. It's outdoor. I would assume that would be the easiest first one to start with.

4:05:23SpeakerTraditionally, there have been terpenes linked to certain hemp or indica or sativa or white leaf or narrow leaf, but at the same time, Terpenes can be freely bred and transferred to any type. Any terpene can be transferred to any type as far as I understand it, my experience. Yeah, that's true to a degree. There's some terpes that don't seem to have the same degree of heritability as other ones.

4:05:58SpeakerAnd some of them are developed as a defense mechanism in nature to ward off pests or different things like that too. They all are. They're semiochemicals. They're signaling molecules for the organizm to communicate with other organizms in the environment. Dr. Yeah, they're not all universally repellent. Some of them are actually attractants. Obviously. Dr. Yeah. That's why I was attracted. They were signaling me. Dr. No, no, no.

4:06:27SpeakerI mean attracted in the insect world, and so the insects are going to use The semiochemical response essentially to pollinate and cross-pollinate the plants, because that's what basically insects do, right? Yeah. There's actually one terpene that a plant produces might signal, for example, there's a pine tree that's attacked by a specific type of beetle, and it in response produces a terpene that upregulates a terpene in the bark that Thanks for watching.

4:07:15SpeakerWhen the terpene is emitted when the plant is under attack, not only will it draw the defensive organizm like you're talking about, but it will signal the other trees around it to start also emitting extra terpenes, even though they're not under attack yet. Yeah, that could well be. Wouldn't surprise me. So the whole thing is, yeah, it's kind of like, yeah, one giant organizm. Oh yeah, I mean they've done air sample tests in forests and you know one of the major components is terpenes.

4:07:51SpeakerIt's obviously like an important chorus that's going on in nature that really we're just not as tuned to it as we, well as we could be perhaps.

4:08:02BubblemanWell especially with things like smoking cigarettes. Talk about damaging your olfactory. Yeah, no doubt, huh? Jesus.

4:08:13SpeakerYeah. Mark, do you find it... As a European, I take offense of that, Mark.

4:08:18BubblemanAs a European, you know... Hey, European, we're European, it's all good about that, but... Hey, is there a hemp strain that can thrive in hot and very humid tropical environments?

4:08:41SpeakerAbsolutely. Rob Clark developed what we would call almost equatorial varieties. Is Rob still there, or has he gone away, Todd?

4:08:55Mark ScaldoneHe'd be gone away, Dave.

4:08:57SpeakerHe'd be gone away?

4:08:58Mark ScaldoneHe'd be gone.

4:09:01SpeakerWe did develop varieties because if you try to grow a normal hemp variety, they've all been developed in, for example, northern Europe and stuff. You take it down to the equator, And you flower it off. It gets about one or two feet tall and flowers off and it's done. Because the photo period is so freaking short. We developed varieties which were extremely low THC and extremely tolerant of short day hours.

4:09:34SpeakerAnd we got some really nice results, but we never ran all the way with it.

4:09:44SpeakerSo, yes, but most, almost all varieties which are used for hemp on the equator are in fact rope-a-dope. They're, you know, low THC varieties, but they're not no THC varieties. They're, you know, just bad quality dope.

4:10:04BubblemanThey're just, you know, bad quality dope.

4:10:07SpeakerInstead of a true industrial variety, bread for industrial end uses and extremely low THC so it has no drug purpose.

4:10:19Etienne FontanAlright, alright.

4:10:25HoratioSam, will you ever write a list of unfinished projects you want people to take up that's not in your company structure? Like, it seems like there's a lot of things that...

4:10:36SpeakerI was thinking of doing that. I was thinking we could start a list on Hash Church of projects we would like to see. I can give you a really easy example of one. Okay, when you smoke a water pipe and you, like, have a carburetor on it, and you inhale a big hit of smoke from it, but yet you leave the smoke in the pipe. So the whole pipe is filled with smoke.

4:11:06SpeakerAnd you let it sit there for a few minutes. And then you go back and you inhale that smoke. It'll choke your lungs really bad. I don't know whether there's a chemical change in the smoke or if it's the particle size is aggregating and it now gets too big to inhale into your lungs. Bingo! Well, that's why I mentioned it, because I work with nebulizers delivering THC, so I understand the difference in particle size and the effects.

4:11:38SpeakerBut I didn't have hardcore proof one way or the other. I think it's a particle size phenomenon, because what's going to happen is that those in the smoke, what's going to happen, those things are going to start to coalesce, and the smaller smoke particles are going to become bigger because they're just not happy. Unless they find each other. So that's a low energy state. I think you're getting...

4:12:00SpeakerIt could be true, Mark. One thing I've noticed, though, is if you vaporize and you fill a balloon, you know, one of those big plastic balloons like from a volcano, and you fill one of those pillows with the air... You can let it sit in there for five or six hours and you can still inhale it and it does not cause this problem. So maybe there's something related to combustion or maybe it's strictly particle size or maybe the combusted particles make it easier for the particle size to increase.

4:12:35SpeakerI don't know, but that's a good question and I think it's a good idea to have a list of projects we'd like to find the answer to. The Jamaicans call it dead smoke. Dead smoke, yeah, man. You've got to clear the chalice, man.

4:12:52BubblemanYeah, definitely. You don't want to be hitting someone's dead smoke in a big old sink. Same with the hubbly bubbly. Afghan hubbly bubbly is the worst. It's the worst. It's such a huge space for oxygen and smoke to sit, and it doesn't just clear out with a small little blow. It's like you literally have to, like, Blow ten times into that thing.

4:13:16SpeakerAnd when you want to clear them after somebody takes a big hit, a big rip, then you clear it, you get all this huge volume of smoke and whoever's doing the clearing gets totally smashed. I know because I've done it a few times. I had to go out and get freaking air.

4:13:31BubblemanYeah, I'm not going to lie. There is also something about that. Why is that smoke so strong the way it's almost like being in a house fire compared to if you inhaled it through the pipe? Stem, compared to when you're blowing it out and you're standing there and all that smoke's coming out, I saw Rob get smoked out one year because he was loading the pipe and lighting it and he was, so much smoke came out of this thing like four or five times in a row that it was like, it was like being in a house fire.

4:13:59SpeakerI think it's because you're filling a thimble with a fire hose.

4:14:03BubblemanNo, we were filling it with fire. Just like a couple of grams of 99% dry sift heads on top of usually a nice Afghani puck that was turned into the screen.

4:14:19BubblemanIt worked well. Is this Guitar Church? Is that what's going on?

4:14:27SpeakerBong rip.

4:14:28BubblemanBong rip. Well, I'll tell you, we did it. Bong rip. How about this? Guitar Church, Mark?

4:14:37Mark ScaldoneWhat's up?

4:14:38BubblemanNo, in six minutes, it will be 420. Four hours and 20 minutes long.

4:14:44SpeakerLet's have a bar with a 420.

4:14:46BubblemanWe will.

4:14:47SpeakerAnd it will be 420 in the East Coast. That's because this is an unreal house church. Maybe Mark and Tony can play us out. At 420. Buy a 420 song for playing us out. Yeah, hey, Tony, what do you know? I've got some old dad. What do you know, Tony? What can we play together? Oh, I don't know. I was just playing some Spanish stuff, actually. I mean, we can make something up.

4:15:13SpeakerI think that's probably a good way to go. We've got five minutes before it's the 4.20.

4:15:34SpeakerI hope you get the same pleasure out of having such a distinguished group of guys, knowledgeable people, all sharing this with the world. I hope you appreciate it as much as I do.

4:15:47BubblemanWell, they show up every weekend, so I know they do appreciate it. I know their time is valuable, and they're not just here.

4:15:53SpeakerHey, Kenny, we never heard a lot from you today, but I always appreciate you too, buddy.

4:15:58Etienne FontanOh, I'm here. I'm just jamming on my youth because it's just a beautiful day. The walls are jumping and it is what it is. Love you guys. Miss you guys.

4:16:08BubblemanShow us the view. We want to see the ATN view.

4:16:16Etienne FontanOh, the view. Yes, the view.

4:16:18BubblemanYes, that goes. Oh, wait. First we're going to look at that bud and now we're going to go look at ATN's view. Ah. Hawaii. Tropical beautifulness. Love the bud. Love the view. D420K is coming in to have the last rip with us right before we say goodbye in the next four minutes. That's the name of the song, guys.

4:16:42SpeakerBallroom.

4:16:58SpeakerWe've got turf dip. Double dip. Double dip. Double dip. Double dip.

4:17:25SpeakerThank you. Thank you.

4:17:56SpeakerAll 18. Oh, it's not in the... Fuck yeah. Yeah. This is too funny.

4:18:13BubblemanOh yeah, Terp Solo.

4:18:17SpeakerTerp Solo? All right, how about, let's see, how about this one? Panama Red. Panama Red. Panama Red. It's still your woman there to rub your head. Head them all red. Head them all red. On his white horse, Pescalito, he comes breezin' through town. I bet your woman's up in bed with old Panama Red. Judge, oh, no one Red's in town. He keeps well hidden underground. Everybody's actin' lazy, fallin' out, or hangin' round.

4:18:51SpeakerMy woman said, hey, Marco, you're actin' crazy like a clown. Nobody feels like workin'. Panama Red is back in town. Panama Red. Panama Red. It's Steelyard Woman, Danny Robb, your head, Panama Red, Panama Red. On his white horse, Mr. Lito, he comes breezing. I bet your woman's up in bed with old Panama Red. Everybody's looking out for him because the no red satisfies. Little girls like to listen to him sing and tell sweet lies.

4:19:29SpeakerBut when things get too confusing, honey, we're better off in bed. I'll be searching all the joints in town for old Panama Red, Panama Red, Panama Red. 420. Then I'll rub your head. 420. Panama Red, Panama Red. On his white horse, Mescalito, he comes breezin' through town. I bet your woman's up in bed with old Panama Red.

4:20:03BubblemanAwesome, guys. Wonderful Hash Church. Thank you all for being a part of Hash Church 74. Next week we will be live in Kingston, Jamaica for Hash Church 75. Don't miss it. Thank you everyone. D420K, Chimera, Etienne, Skunkman, Sam, Horatio, Johnny B, Mark Scaldone, Todd McCormick, Robert Connell Clark, Tony Verzura, Ron Hickey, and all the viewers.

4:20:32SpeakerNice to share with you guys. Peace out everybody. Have a good life guys. Peace brother.