Terpenes, Skunk History, and Cultivation Tips

0:01BubblemanHey everybody, welcome on this beautiful Sunday morning to Hash Church episode 71. Episode 71, can you believe it? We made it 71 episodes into this Hash Church and I just want to thank you guys for showing up each week. It's a big deal. There's a ton of you guys in chat right now and that's really awesome. I'm going to go live here right away and send out the links to my peoples.

0:28BubblemanWe've got many links going out through Instagram, through Facebook, through Skype. And last but not least, I will send one out via mail. Just send it anyway. Awesome. Well, I'm sure Etienne will be popping into the group sooner than later. Todd McCormick beat Etienne today. It was Todd McCormick by a nose hair, ladies and gentlemen.

0:56BubblemanThat was close. Not many people beat Ekje into the room. Man, if I was trying every morning, what's up?

1:03SpeakerYeah, uh-huh. Morning and you. I know, it's a contradiction in terminology, I do know, but... Good morning, fellas.

1:12BubblemanYes, welcome everyone. Mr. Mark Scaldone, holding the gummy bear.

1:19SpeakerHow you doing today, there, bubble man?

1:21BubblemanYou know, I'm doing okay. I'm a pretty happy camper. Had a good week. Met another group of young guys here in BC who are doing it upright. These guys from Sunrise Wellness Foundation. Met them over at Breeders Steve's apartment yesterday and had a great time. You know, they had some beautiful strawberry banana bubble hash from DNA that they made or that a friend of theirs had made.

1:47BubblemanAnd it was beautiful. It had the unbelievable smell, very much like the strawberry banana smell that the guy pulled out of his cup and tried to share with me. I don't know if you remember, Todd. He had the BHO strawberry banana. It had a really beautiful smell, but I didn't smoke it. But I did get to smoke it yesterday, and... Man, I have to say, I was surprised at how good the strain was.

2:10SpeakerDid you just say you smoked BHO yesterday? What's that? Did you just say that you smoked BHO yesterday?

2:17BubblemanNo, no, it was a strawberry banana bubble hash, but what I was saying was the only time I'd smelled the strain was in BHO at the Secret Cup in Spain. He was really excited about it, and I felt bad. I was like, oh, dude, I... I can't do it. I only smoked BHO like literally once in my life, and it was live resin from Giddy Up, and it gave me a migraine headache.

2:42BubblemanI'm talking like that shit was poison. And I'm not calling out all BHO, but man, that shit Giddy made, it was.

2:49SpeakerWell, I'm going to say a lot of us have a very different reaction to the old BHO than a headache. Oh.

2:55BubblemanMan, I got a migraine headache and it was no joke, dude. Like, even Tony went out that night to a big party that I really wanted to go to and I couldn't go because my head was literally splitting in half. It was a bummer.

3:09SpeakerThat's the worst when you can't even see straight to do what you want to do.

3:12BubblemanYeah, I don't know what I was thinking doing that. It was kind of like trying to be respectful or something and I'm like, I'm so done with trying to be respectful. It's like... It's like this. I don't suck dick. I'm okay with people that do, but don't ask me to because I don't do it. Just like I don't eat steak and I don't smoke BHO. It's nothing against BHO or steak or sucking dick.

3:38BubblemanI just don't personally do any of those things. And I have nothing against them, but just don't ask me to do them.

3:45SpeakerSo no butane dick steaks for you?

3:48BubblemanNo! No, I stay away from you! Hard to please, Mark. Hard to please! What a fussy bastard I am. Anyway, great to see all you guys, and I'm ready to smoke a bowl with you fellows. I did invite some girls in today, I'm not going to lie. I sent some girls the links now. It's up to them whether or not they can get up early enough and get their hair all organized so that they can come on camera.

4:13SpeakerDon't make it worse. Don't you mean women? I don't think you invited girls. No. We're going to have to go get Mark and just rough him up for the listening audience. He'd love it though.

4:27BubblemanI love women. I wish the women would come in, man.

4:30SpeakerI love you calling Hillary a girl. That's a good one.

4:33BubblemanI don't take offense to the word girl, though, I guess, because I have daughters, or a daughter, so it's just like, I don't think of it as like... No, but it's a different level of maturity.

4:42SpeakerYou don't think a 14-year-old girl has the comprehension capabilities of, you know, of internationally experienced women.

4:52BubblemanWell, then we will call them internationally experienced women from now on, I assure you.

4:58SpeakerIEWs.

5:00BubblemanI can do that. I respect them enough, that's for sure.

5:04SpeakerIf we don't shut up, Hillary's going to shut up and kick my ass.

5:07BubblemanI'm trying to get her on here. I sent her the link and I'm trying to get her on here.

5:12SpeakerCan we watch the ass beating when she finds a brick and comes out? You be quiet, buddy.

5:17BubblemanHey, it is actually going to her birthday very soon. I'm going to try and go to her birthday in a couple of days here so we can send Hillary some birthday love in the next couple of days. I believe it's February 5th, if I'm not mistaken.

5:31SpeakerWell, let's give her some early birthday love there, Hillary, if you're listening. Happy birthday, woman.

5:35BubblemanYes. What is instead of belated? What do you say? Post? Post birthday?

5:41SpeakerHappy early birthday? Because every woman wants to be reminded of her fucking birthday, right?

5:45BubblemanOh, come on. That's another thing that I have no problem telling people. Since my dad got killed with his wife at a very young age, I don't let people bitch about how old they are. I absolutely have no fucking patience for it. It's complete and total bullshit. You are blessed to become another year older. And all the people that didn't get to, be proud of that you made it to that extra year, at least for them.

6:09BubblemanDon't play into this weird kind of, oh, I'm getting old, and look how old I am. Of course you're getting old. You're living. It's a blessing.

6:16SpeakerThey call it a gift. I think it's true. I mean, when I was a little kid and people asked me, what do you want to be when you grow up? I'd be like, older. Just want to grow up. Right? At this point, that's all that's important.

6:28BubblemanAnd could you imagine seeing people like choke out about their birthdays while you were, you know, in the situation you're in and people are like, oh God, I'm just getting old. I hate this. I don't know what the, it's like, well, the alternative is not good. Let me tell you, to not getting old, the alternative is, is dying. That's it. So far, that's all we've come up with.

6:48SpeakerTo be really truthful, when I was a little kid, I was so sick all the time that my best friend in the hospital, we used to talk about what he was going to do when he got older, but we never talked about what I was going to do because I looked so fucking sick that none of us thought I was going to get older. So it was like, don't even go there.

7:04SpeakerIt's a true story. He ended up having a heart attack passing away when I was a little kid. I was actually in the room with him when it happened, unfortunately enough.

7:11BubblemanOh my God, Todd. That's terrible.

7:13SpeakerYeah, it was. Actually, pretty heavy duty, if you want the truth. At the time, I wasn't able to walk because I had cancer in my left hip, little tumors. They had tied my arms to the hospital bed because when I would roll over, I'd pull out the IVs. Jesus Christ. It's actually the most horrific moment of my life.

7:31BubblemanI'm not going to lie. I'm mildly freaked out by hospitals. Went and visited Johnny B yesterday, as some of you may know from the Facebook post I made on my page. And the guy just has the most absolutely positive outlook that you could ever imagine. He's had this intense fucking surgery. And we walk in the door. Thank you for watching.

8:23BubblemanThank you for watching.

8:46BubblemanYou want to go visit Johnny B? I guarantee you he would appreciate it. He's had lots of visitors, lots of friends keeping him busy, but he's there until Monday or Tuesday, so feel free to get in touch with him through Facebook or whatnot and see if you can't go by and Go visit Johnny B. I brought all 18 terpenes yesterday to the hospital, and we went through a terpene.

9:09BubblemanIt was actually quite neat, because he was in obvious pain. He just had surgery. I mean, they bolted a cage to his head, so his neck was stabilized on his shoulder, so even the sides of his head looked like they hurt, but his neck, oh my goodness, he watched the surgery of his own surgery. He said they opened up his entire neck, and you could see his spine going into his skull like, Holy shit, John, that's, I don't know if I would do that, but power to you, my friend.

9:37BubblemanPower to you. Terp dipping for Johnny B. Oh yeah, what I wanted to say was, he was smelling the terps yesterday, and there was a couple of them that actually released pain without cannabinoids at all, just by smelling it. And it was this one right here, the Purple Punch. He said he smelled it. And his nine pain level went down to a four. I actually filmed it.

10:02BubblemanIt'll be on a video in the next couple of days. But I thought that was very interesting. He said it was very fleeting in the sense that as he pulled the terpenes away, the pain just went right back. But as he inhaled for that split second, he literally just felt like the focus moved away from the pain and moved on to the flavor and the smell of the terpene.

10:23BubblemanSo I thought that was kind of interesting. Kind of an interesting fact.

10:27SpeakerYeah, that's fascinating, and new research needs to be done on that, you know, direct terpene action. Yeah. Can you believe it's just 9.07 or 9.10 and we have almost 730 people watching, so good job, everybody.

10:43BubblemanPeople are waiting, dude, literally waiting. They're in the chat room, hundreds of them, for a couple of hours before Hash Church starts, and I... You know, everyone wants to, Todd and I were talking about this the other day where someone was talking to Todd and they were like, yeah, you know, I'm going to do this and do this and then I'm just going to produce a viral video.

11:02BubblemanAnd Todd's like, what? Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to produce a viral video. And it's like, oh, you're just going to produce, you're just going to make a viral video. You know it's going to be viral already. And it's not so easy to do that and to have that sort of attraction. So once again, I know I do it too much, but Thank you, the viewers, for whatever reason, finding us interesting.

11:24BubblemanWe really do appreciate it. We would not be doing as much as we're doing this morning had it not been for all of you. So props, bong rips for the Hash Churchers.

11:37SpeakerHey, good morning, Sam. Morning. Good morning from far away. Well, you're up early, Sam. Welcome. No, he's not. He's up early. Oh, it's late there. Sorry. I forgot. You're around the world. How's tomorrow? No, it's still today.

11:54BubblemanIt's still today.

11:55SpeakerJust later.

11:57BubblemanNow, Sam. Now, Sam. You must be careful, because last week when you came on, I had people texting me. I can see Sam's face. I saw his chin.

12:08SpeakerLet him know that he... Yeah, well, if they could recognize my chin, then more power to them. Then they're some sort of a chinologist. No, it's just... Chinology.

12:21BubblemanThey respect you that much that they... Thank you for watching.

12:54BubblemanSo, have you discovered any other terps that are your favorite along with the Red Congo?

13:03SpeakerWell, see, the thing is that, oh, you mean these blends of terps? Yes, the profiles. Yeah. Actually, what I found out is that if you mix a little tangy water hash with A little of this red cargolese, it's pretty fucking fantastic.

13:30BubblemanYeah, there's these combinations that occur, and it's definitely through the mixing of different resins. You know, the distillates with no terpenes present, they'll give you the modulating effect of the terpene, but I really like the combination of the terpene profiles that then change, particularly a strain that you know. You know, if you've got the Tangy Water Hash and you're smoking it, you know how it makes you feel, and you know when you add...

13:57SpeakerI was hesitant to add anything to it because the tangy stuff actually was quite turquoise by itself.

14:05BubblemanYeah, absolutely. Tangy is one of those strains that definitely goes all the way through the water process and can still, if done properly, have really nice flavor.

14:18SpeakerThat is for sure. It's one of those strains, no matter what you do, it comes through. You know, I've seen VHO come out, Exponential, Waterhash come out phenomenal. It's just one of those amazing strains. So, Sam, why that mix, and what did it do for you, and what made it so fantastic for you? Well, as you kind of know, I'm not very focused on medical applications anymore.

14:47SpeakerWhat I like to do is get high as a freaking kite. And celebrate life. So what stratosphere do you prefer to be in then? Well, what I really, really prefer is effects that are more haze-like, where not only is it cerebral, clear, psychedelic, up, clear, focused. You know, but also, it's ceiling-less, so every time you take a toke, you actually get higher than you were before. And that's difficult to find.

15:29SpeakerSo the equatorial varieties, you know, in the early 70s, you know... If you get resin from equatorial varieties... You're more likely to achieve that kind of a goal. But some people don't like it, too, because it's also the same kind of pop that in turn novice smokers white and they fall over and pass out. So, I mean, that's what I like. In your studies, do you think this is more because of cannabinoid levels and differences or terpenes?

16:00SpeakerIt requires a good dose of THC, obviously, but what it really is, it's the terpenes and the lack of some of the terpenes that are commonly found in white leaf drug varieties. Agreed.

16:14BubblemanI smell it in the terps. There's profiles in most of these terpenes that are familiar, and there's the unique differences Of each one, Purple Punch and Orange Creamsicle is more citrusy and et cetera, et cetera. But the Red Congolese, I would almost guarantee if you did a terpene profile gas chromatograph or whatever on these, that the Red Congolese would have something that the others don't. That it just doesn't have.

16:42SpeakerMaybe it's as simple that it doesn't have big doses of myrcene. Who? No, I get what you're saying. It's like if there was the color black in the photograph and there was too much color black, we wouldn't like the photograph.

17:00SpeakerAs a comparison. There has to be a balance of colors. If there's too much of one color, it's going to turn us off, put us to sleep, make us tired, or...

17:12BubblemanWell, that was another thing that Sam and I were talking about the other day, and I can't remember how you exactly put it, Sam, but it was basically about the two effects of THC, whereas you get the buzz and the nice feeling, and then you have the sort of down part.

17:28SpeakerThat's because cannabis THC is really high-facing. Right. At first it stimulates, then it depresses. Right. That's even if you're smoking pure THC. Plus, all these other things just modulate that biphasic-ness.

17:48BubblemanThat's what I'm saying, the biphasic-ness, exactly. So the terpenes seem to extend or almost turn off the latter part. Have you noticed that at all?

18:00SpeakerAbsolutely. If you get the right ones with the wrong ones, I'm sure, are negative, but Right. I want to throw something out there. And you know, Sam, seeing that we have you on, I would love to talk grow tips in a minute. But somebody just put, I don't have time for a 12-week strain. And Neville, of all people, we were playing chess and getting high once in the 90s, and he was the one that told me that any of the strains that literally will flower over 10 weeks, you can pop in when they're still little plants that have just developed roots, and they will finish a couple feet high with variation.

18:32SpeakerBut they will continue to grow and vegetate while they're flowering. So you actually don't need a couple extra weeks or three or four of veg time like you do with an eight-week plant. You can pop it straight in and finish in 10 or 12 weeks, done. Yeah, that's true. But I found some of the best ones, in fact, came from 16 or 24 weekers.

19:01SpeakerI've also tried when I was growing some equatorials, I would also the last two weeks scale it back an hour of light so that it would also trigger like fall and it would tend to ripen it up a little bit faster. What do you mean when you would trigger the last two weeks? You're already in 12 hours of light, you'd give them 11? Yes. And you think that makes a difference?

19:22SpeakerThat will help a little bit. Yeah, only a little bit, but it just causes the ripe to happen and then I can harvest it.

19:30BubblemanI used to hear DJ Short talking about those different types of flowering periods just an hour to two hours off of each cycle.

19:39SpeakerI'll tell you guys, the best garden I saw in Amsterdam was a simple four 600 watt light setup. He had 88 plants on one side, which was two square meters, which is like a four by eight space. He had 88 plants on the other side with a little one foot strip in the middle, and he rocked five weeks and then five weeks this side. And he actually made NL5 by haze with zero days pre-grow.

20:01SpeakerHe would actually cut his plants on the 15th, put them into flowering on the 1st, And then they would go 10, 10, 70 days from there, 10 weeks from there. And he would finish with plants that were about 16 inches to 20 inches tall. And I, he, I saw the best harvest off of his 88 plant setup. He averaged 16 grams of plant under two 600 watt bulbs in just 10 weeks time.

20:26SpeakerAnd he actually got over 1400 grams of NL5 by haze and killed it. With only 88 plants and 2 square meters in 10 weeks, anybody growing skunk that thinks that they can do better in a faster time than that, including pre-grow, to me, is kidding themselves.

20:48SpeakerI'm just being honest. I mean, we used to advertise the chronic on a serious seeds at 600 grams a meter, and that was the heavy yielder. The Cali Mist and the AK at the time, this was 20 freaking years ago, I worked with Simon, But those were our lower yielders. The AK yielded less, and the Cali was even worse. So 600 grams a meter is a lot of pot, even on Dutch standards.

21:11SpeakerThe fact that he pulled off 700 grams a meter using no pre-grow and what are considered haze. So it was on the chair? It actually won the 1996 Cannabis Cup that year. Even though it was soil grown, it won the Hydroponic Cup. Which year was that? Next to it when it actually won it.

21:29BubblemanWhat year, Todd?

21:31SpeakerIt was 1996.

21:32BubblemanOkay, yeah, I would have been there.

21:34SpeakerYeah, the dude that grew it, I'll just say his first name was Tom. Cool-ass fucking guy. And I was, so I loved his pot, and it was sold through Greenhouse. Arian took away the trophy that year. But incredible weed. I mean, and the simplest of scenes, you know, he used an all-mixed soil that he got at Positronics, which was just all of the nutrients mixed in for flowering, so you didn't really have to add anything.

21:57SpeakerSo in a sense, naturally, it was... Thank you so much for joining us today. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.

22:24SpeakerI'm not sure exactly what you mean, Rob.

22:42SpeakerIt means like taking an eight week, nine week plant and harvesting at seven or six instead of, and taking a long flowering variety and harvesting it late. That it kind of delivered the same type of uppity, I don't want to say speedy, but energetic. Rob absolutely would prefer a week or two earlier harvest, for example, of skunk, because you want it to be And now in our hunt for maximum resin, and obviously anyone that's watched cannabis develop knows that the resin and the oils really build up in the later part of flowering.

23:34SpeakerLetting them go, now that we are kind of harvesting for these oils and these essential aromas. Is it changing the high? Do you recommend that growers... It absolutely is. Okay. Do you recommend that growers... That's why I was going for the early, and I was preferring the late. If you have enough plants, I might even go for the early, because then you just have lots of it, and maybe I would... How much...

24:06SpeakerHow much more oil builds up in the later... I can't say. It probably depends on the variety and the environmental conditions and how it's being grown. Does it have really big, giant roots? Is it helping supply? I mean, it's just... How it's expressing itself is extremely important. By a general rule of thumb, if all things were equal and the plants were healthy, would bringing them closer to rejuvenation to a very late stage increase our yields for oil and resin?

24:38SpeakerWhat I've seen helps the most for terpene expression and resin is to grow really big giant plants in an environment where they can truly fully mature and age properly. And organic soil, I mean that really is what I've seen.

25:02BubblemanI wish Tony was here to talk about such things, but we've had a few conversations.

25:05SpeakerAlso, one other thing I've seen makes a difference is if you get a plant, and just before you get a flower, you whack the plant in half, and then you flower it. I've seen this done a few times. Then what happens is you have this big, giant fruit system. Are you talking like breaking it, or are you talking... No, no, I'm talking about like basically... Chopping the plant in half.

25:34SpeakerSo it's a two-meter plant that's just ready to flower. Imagine if you chopped it in half and you made it so it was only a one-meter plant and most of the top was gone. Just try it once. Don't do it to your main crop. But try it. You'll see what I'm talking about. What is produced is obviously less weight, but quality is superb. But you have this big giant root system supplying a smaller flowering biomass.

26:12BubblemanMakes sense, but wow, is it ever counter-prohibition mindset. Cut off the top. Hmm, all right.

26:19SpeakerWell, wait a minute, though. We're in veg when you're saying cut off the top. So all of that's usable material. You go make other plants with them, so it's not a waste at all. Well, in favor you could if that was your goal, but yeah, what I was just saying is it's kind of like what they do with grapes. What they do is for some of the very, very, very highest quality plants, they don't try to maximize the amount of plant material, or excuse me, grapes per plant.

26:50SpeakerWhat they do is in fact they turn it back and they get less grapes but superior quality. Well, I've done it with cannabis on a small scale with a few hundred plants. And it worked, actually. But it gave less yield. So I'm not advising it to anybody except for as an experiment.

27:19BubblemanWhen you're close to your mic, it sounds good. If you get too far away from your mic, it starts to echo a little bit, so just try to keep that in mind. People want to hear. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's okay. Don't be sorry.

27:30SpeakerIf I'm over here, you can hear me fine, yeah?

27:33BubblemanOh, yeah, really good.

27:35SpeakerBut then I have to stand up, and I'm a lazy guy.

27:39BubblemanWe need to get you some extension cords on your computer so you can bring your computer over to that little nice table right by that nice comfy chair.

27:47SpeakerI think I could probably do that. Or a microphone that reaches from your computer so you can just sit down and speak. We'll get you beer and send it to you. We can get you a bullhorn like a cop, you know. I'll be right back. I'm going to go get a yogurt.

28:11SpeakerYeah, get a yogurt. You know, I was... I would love to ask him more questions about skunk and some of the seminal strains that came in as land races in the 70s and got turned into the varieties that we call names like Northern Lights, Haze.

28:27BubblemanIt would also be great to put to rest for once and for all like him just explaining his skunk number one and it's not the roadkill skunk and what is the roadkill skunk because everyone really confuses. Most people that I ever went to Amsterdam with and it was their first trip and they'd go to the coffee shop and they'd buy their skunk number one. They were super surprised when it was fruity.

28:49SpeakerFirst off, you know what was funny? There's not even skunks in Holland. There are no skunks. There's not even a Dutch word for skunk. They don't have them. It's a North American animal. And it was funny because I had a Dutchman sitting in Posse one day going, Dutch, skunk is so, it is so Dutch. And I was like, dude, it's not even Dutch. You've never even smelled a skunk.

29:08SpeakerYour dog has never come home stinking like a skunk. You don't know what it's like to ride through a neighborhood and smell a skunk because you don't have skunks. You might have them at the zoo, but not anywhere in the wild in Amsterdam. And he looked at me like, I think you are right. And I was like, I am right, dude. I grew up with real skunks.

29:24SpeakerAnd we have weed that smells like skunks very different. You know, and I actually missed it. You know, these guys will say that people didn't like the acrid smell, but I know a lot of my friends did like the roadkill skunk. We did like that. But that's not the skunk number one. Well, you know, he said he bred it, and he can say it himself, but for the sweeter side of it, he said he didn't like the acrid smells.

29:50SpeakerHe didn't like that it was hard for growing. It turned off their neighbors. And he bred for the sweeter side of it. And it makes sense to me. It's very sweet.

30:00BubblemanLike, it is sweet-smelling and tasty.

30:04SpeakerRight. But, you know, Sam knows what a real skunk smells like from here. So are you saying there's no skunk in Holland? Other than Pepe Le Pew on TV, no. When it was named skunk number one, it was. Sam, how many skunks are in Amsterdam? What's that? How many natural skunks are in Holland or in Amsterdam? None. Zero. Thanks. So what were you going to say, Sam?

30:34SpeakerWhen it was named skunk number one, it absolutely smelled skunky and really caused a lot of problems for a lot of people. But within a few years of selection in California, it had already Sweetened it up fairly well. Then when I moved over here, I did selections but on a massive scale with Rob helping me. And that completely changed it. Then we produced from clones that were the best of the best of the best, but they were also much sweeter.

31:10SpeakerSo it really did change it.

31:13BubblemanOh, it sure made the resin sweet.

31:16SpeakerBut, you know, I still got a few hundred kilos of skunk seeds made not from those clones, but from those clones. But the germination rate is like 5%. People would still buy them.

31:35BubblemanThe genes are still out there. 5%? Yeah, I think you could sell all those.

31:41SpeakerI'm coming back to Amsterdam.

31:44BubblemanHey, wait. Horatio's talking and I can't hear him. Welcome, Horatio. You're not muted, but I didn't hear you say anything when your lips just moved. Better figure that out, bud. Definitely going to be able to hear you.

32:00SpeakerSam, we were asking the origins of the roadkill skunk, the original skunk. Can you tell us about the origins of this genetics? Which one? Roadtail skunk is an invention only from the last 10, 15, 20 years. I mean the name.

32:24SpeakerWhen I started skunk number one was about 70s, in the mid 70s. And I had heard of a few other skunks. Not really weed called skunk, but skunky weed. You know, people with various loads. But what I did was to make it clear that that was separate because it was fairly true breeding even though it was a three-way hybrid. was called skunk number one. And it was absolutely smelled like you'd fucking run over a skunk when you were growing it.

33:10SpeakerIt was a problem. And also, I didn't like it. It was maybe a bit stronger, but it was more low-dose. And so when I sweetened it up and made it more limeliny and less mersingy, It changed the high and made it better in my mind.

33:30BubblemanSo how do you go about doing something like that? You're just like, oh, I'm just going to lower the myrcene levels and bump the limonene levels. I didn't do it like that.

33:41SpeakerThat's what I was doing. It was inadvertent. Right, and now he knows now through identification of terpenes what it is he did in his womb 30 years ago. Sure. But back then he didn't know what he was doing. Well, he knew what he was planning to do. He didn't realize those were the switches he was flicking that were getting him to the point where he wanted to go.

34:00SpeakerAm I right, Sam? At the time in California, I was breeding for quality, smell, low leaf to flower ratio, high flower to leaf ratio, things like that, you know, that made skunk famous. But I wasn't sophisticated enough except for to know that I thought part of the reason why skunk was so good was because It was so fucking fragrant, you know, like some of the diesels or some of the... Yeah, I mean, when varieties have lots of terpenes and you like those terpenes, it usually... Like skunk, it really...

34:48SpeakerI never grew skunks that I tested much over about 17% THC. So when...

34:56SpeakerThese other variety starters coming out in the 20s and stuff like that, they weren't really that much stronger than skunk, but the difference was skunk had the perfect terpenes, limelene, myrcene, and a few other ones that it really made it seem more potent and more enjoyable than just the THC levels. I think now we've all realized how important terpenes are and It will change breeding in the future.

35:30SpeakerEverybody will be breeding for terpenes of a particular profile once they understand which ones they want and which ones they don't want.

35:39BubblemanYou were definitely very much ahead of the game by far like 10 years before anyone talked about terpenes to me. You were modulating with them and even longer than that. So it's pretty incredible. I know that the newer generations, I said something about the modulation of terpenes the other day and the gentleman on the Instagram was like, oh, someone's been watching Horatio and I'm like, no, I actually talked about this with Stunkman Sam like Maybe 12 years ago.

36:12BubblemanIt's a new generation that are thinking that they're hearing about it for the first time.

36:18SpeakerI'm happy that people have heard about it because the truth of it is that once we're sophisticated enough that we're able to breed with the idea of specific goals for terpenes and cannabinoids, I mean, To me, that's really using cannabis in the way it should be. I mean, that's just from trial and error, that's what's happened with wine because it's been a legal industry. I guess they're probably close to doing molecular biology and breeding with wine too because it's really going to take over the world of plant breeding.

37:02BubblemanI like the idea of it being done on the plant. I mean, I'm definitely also pro the deconstruction of the cannabinoids and terpenes and fractions, but I think the idea of someone trying to put those back together better than a plant could do them, for me anyway, I just feel like that is very unique breeding that I would love to see done in the next decade. You know, 10 to 20 years that more people take that seriously.

37:26SpeakerWell, first we need to understand each individual component and how they act as suites of components for specific end goals. Then we can create a product that has that. Especially, I want to be able to make it so it's a dry sift with that profile of those terpenes, whatever the end goal is.

37:53BubblemanAbsolutely. So that's the goal of deconstructing, really.

37:57SpeakerYeah. It's to end up with something that, yeah, it'll be like that plant that you wish you had a clone of that you smoked 20 years ago.

38:10BubblemanNice. We all have that, don't we? Does everyone want to talk about their...

38:14SpeakerYou know what though, I would like to bring something up there because there's been such a fundamental difference in the way that Northern Californians would handle their strains. And so many times I've had bags of really killer bud handed to me by a friend who grows in the Emerald Triangle and I go, wow, do you have this mother? No, that's it, I flowered it, I got seeds though.

38:35SpeakerAnd I look at him like, you've lost, like, ugh. And they just didn't understand how significant that selection was in keeping these really incredible varieties going. And I wish they would start. Now they're starting to look at it like that. Now they're starting to mother early and they're starting to get the most out of their veg time. But for so long, when I moved to Holland and I would see people holding on to plants like they were sacred, like this sister can never be replicated again.

39:05SpeakerAnd then you come back here and they were just so flippant about, oh well, such a different attitude. Well, at the time Harlem went completely to clones, whereas in America there were still a lot of people using seeds. And now I think in America most people use clones, so. Yeah, the consciousness of the, there's been good companies that have stepped up, Sam, and that actually do really good propagation of known California cuttings that have fairly different, fairly good selections, and there are a lot of very good clones floating around the clubs these days.

39:46SpeakerFor sure. And there is a different consciousness now where people are realizing that even with the mothers and the fathers that you can't really replicate. They're as unique as people in some respects. I mean, Rob was here telling me, and could you break it down for us? It was the amount of plants that have a single sex compared to the ones that are dioecious, and then how many of the ones that have multiple sexes actually breed similar to the way cannabis does.

40:12SpeakerAnd it was like 1% of 10%? Could you?

40:17SpeakerI don't remember off the top of my head, but no, it's not very big. Not very big. Cannabis is very, very unique in the plant kingdom.

40:26BubblemanI definitely would agree with that. Not many plants producing cannabinoids and acids.

40:33SpeakerWell, I think, too, a lot of what we see in cannabis, anything that's been cultivated by man has been altered by man. In other words, whether deep or I've got seeds which one gram are 800 plus seeds to one gram. I've got other seeds which are 12 seeds to one gram. So is that Nepal and China?

41:16SpeakerThe Chinese is the 12 ones, and the other ones, actually, I got them in Kashmir, up in the mountains near Srinagar, near a city called Telgam.

41:31BubblemanFor those of you that are trying to understand, I wish I had the, I might have the picture somewhere, but these seeds he's talking about, these Chinese seeds look like walnuts, I mean, not really, but they're big seeds. And the little ones, I mean, my God, they almost look like poppy seeds. They're small seeds.

41:47SpeakerNo, they're 800 plus to the gram. They're the smallest cannabis seeds I've ever seen. When people saw them, they didn't believe them. But what I tell people is these are not the seeds that I bought in, that I, excuse me, got in Kashmir. What I actually did was I took them back to California and grew them. These are the seeds I grew in California. Yeah. And they stayed absolutely tiny.

42:15SpeakerIt wasn't an effect of being 9,000 feet in the mountains. This is what they are. They're probably super wild and undomesticated by man. I think the more man touches them, the more he looks for big seeds because those little tiny ones, also these shatter if you touch the plant. The seeds would quite literally jump away like in a spring. They were really undomesticated. The opposite of that is what people call indica or white leaf varieties where the seeds are tightly held in the flowers, in the bracts, in the buds.

42:58SpeakerThey can't really fall out and propagate so easy without the hand of man. Sam, how wild was that plant? I just, I have like witch hazel that shoots seeds into your eye in the middle of the fall. Like, is that physically, would be, how would we know it would be cannabis if we were still looking at it? What are you talking about? The tiny seed. No, it grew, I think, it might have been five or six feet tall when I grew it in my greenhouse in California.

43:28SpeakerThe leaves were a little bit small and the buds were wispy. But once the seeds were mature, if you touched the plant or the leaves or anything, quite literally the seeds would go ping, ping, ping. That makes a great macro video. What you needed was like an upside down umbrella or something, you know. Yeah, to catch them. But, yeah. What, do you have any sort of... What I'll do is, wait a minute, I'll go get them.

44:02BubblemanThere you go. That's better. Yeah, go get them. And then let us know what your tricks are for planting seeds that are 10 and 20 and 30 years old. Obviously, it's going to be different for walnut Chinese seeds versus Kashmiri baby poppy seeds. But just with the general seeds, I know he's not far. He's just over in his unbelievable collection room. Grabbing these. This is something that happens when you sit on Sam's couch.

44:28BubblemanI didn't hear you because... No, I know. I'm talking to the audience. But here I am. Let me see what I can find here now. I'm talking to the 1,013 people who are anxiously awaiting seeing these walnut seeds and these babies.

44:42SpeakerOkay, well, these are... This isn't a plastic bag. What you have to do is you have to find the picture of them...

44:52BubblemanI'll look. I'm certain I took photos of both those seeds. I just, uh, oh, you got to put them up to the camera and pull it back. It's just your hand right now. A little bit, oh yeah, there we go. I got the walnuts. There you go. Right, right there. Right there is good. So that definitely shows that those seeds are like 20 plus times bigger than those other ones.

45:15SpeakerCan you see how small they are? Yeah, yeah, right there, right there. Sam, would that small variety be the ultimate gorilla grow then? Because every time they chop it... I don't know because the plants aren't that much gorilla. It's just the seeds are ridiculously tiny.

45:33BubblemanRight. Still interesting. Do you find that there's something... Because of the way the seed is going to be produced, that there are obviously going to be genetic markers present in that plant that maybe would not be present in plants that don't have seeds that size? I presume so, but I'm really not sure. Wow. But you didn't see anything super different in the profile or the terps?

45:58SpeakerI never examined the terps of that one. I never examined the terps of the big one either. The big one is grown in China for eating the seeds by hand by people.

46:11BubblemanAh, that's how they got so big. What an interesting thing, humans selecting for the seed size. Those seeds are truly, when you hold one in your hand, they make you laugh.

46:24SpeakerTo me, anyway. And the tiny ones are so small. I really don't like eating cannabis seeds that are not shelled. I find them, they're just too crunchy and they stick between my teeth and blah, blah, blah. Those little tiny ones, you almost can do that. They're more like big, fat poppy seeds. Yeah. Interesting. Dr. I love it. I love it. I honestly have thought for a long time that the most exciting element of cannabis was the nutrition that we get from the hemp seed.

46:55SpeakerI love the cannabinoids, and I love the terpenes, but as a kid, I didn't like being sick. I always thought that let food be thy medicine was very true, and we are what we eat on many levels. If we had the opportunity to eat a balanced nutrition that we like what we can get from hemp seed, we would be in amazing shape mentally, physically, spiritually.

47:18BubblemanI eat it on the regular.

47:20SpeakerSo I want to do something participatory. I want to make a little video of the chat, and I want to ask everybody in the chat to post what country you're watching from. And I'm going to video this, and I'll post it later. If you're down, there are a thousand people watching, so if everybody would just please punch in your country. And be honest. Where are you viewing from?

47:46SpeakerAnd I'll do it. So where is everybody at? You should do this in two sections, Scott. First, have them tell the absolute truth. Yeah, exactly. Then let them tell another one where they wish they were. Or how high they are.

48:04BubblemanThe first reply was Pluto.

48:06SpeakerThe second reply was Mars.

48:10BubblemanSo this is some international shit right here.

48:12SpeakerLook at this, man. I love it. Missouri, Deerfield Beach, America, Kentucky. I love this. Look at this. Edmonton, Bermuda. I wish we were there. True, true. Africa, Denmark, England, Massachusetts, Germany, Santa Cruz, love it, Australia, Zimbabwe, Africa, Montreal. No Lapland? Come on Lapland. Where are you Lapland? Florida, Belgium, Switzerland, Indiana, Wisconsin, Detroit. This is awesome. Nobody watching from Japan? They're going to get in trouble. The internet police.

48:55BubblemanI want to see Oklahoma. I want to see Texas. I want to see Japan.

49:01SpeakerI'm blown away with all the places. Hawaii. Todd, have you ever been to Lapland? Isn't that where they invented the lap dance?

49:13SpeakerI'll head right over now that I know that historical peg. Northern Ireland. Portugal. Wow.

49:21BubblemanWell, it makes me happy. What I'd really like to do is I'd like to add a secondary part of this, which is join the Facebook group Hash Church and just post a picture from where you're from, even if it's from a sunset or from a, just, you know, write your, you know, a little picture and where you're from. It would be a really cool post, and I'll start it with a picture from Lions Bay.

49:44SpeakerWow. You know, thank you very much, everybody, for participating in my little stoner experiment. It's still going and it's just amazing. You know, the world is just shrinking in front of our eyes and it's fun to watch. Absolutely.

49:58BubblemanIt's neat to be able to touch people from all around the world. I really can't wait until it's even more interactive in the sense that you could almost... Well, can I add to it? Yep.

50:12SpeakerAll the thousand people, what are you smoking right now?

50:19BubblemanAw, man. What are you smoking right now? We want the name of the cultivar, the micron of the resin.

50:30SpeakerI love it. Thank you. Tang with various curbs.

50:37BubblemanYeah, okay, good one, Sam. I'm smoking the strawberry banana from DNA Bubble Hash with various curbs. Various curbs. Oh, and here we go.

50:48SpeakerYeah, I've got some Bruce Banner going on here from fresh off the Hedy's. Yeah, look at that. Okay, this is a lot of OG.

50:56BubblemanTodd should be filming this as well because this is good too.

51:02SpeakerYeah, I was stoned and I was happy with my little experiment. I wasn't thinking of that. Sorry, I always think of what other people are smoking. No, I think it's really cool. I mean, we're all tuning in to the same cannabinoids. I used to think that it was alien food. So that's a weird thing to say, but like, the way that we were just all tuned in to this chemical, and a lot of us, when you get together, we don't drink, we're like, there's so many similarities in potheads, it's not funny.

51:30SpeakerAnd it's funny, actually. No, it's fucking hilarious, actually.

51:34BubblemanYour mic's cracking up, Todd. I'm not sure if it's because Sam isn't muted. Everyone was muted but Sam, but you had a bit of a crackly mic. I don't know if it was... Me? You want me to turn mine down? No, not necessarily. If you can mute it for a second, we'll all mute our mics and let Todd talk. Then we can decipher whether it's his mic or something back.

51:57SpeakerOkay, well, all I was saying is I'm sorry I was crackling. Is it crackling? Yeah, it's still crackling on you.

52:07BubblemanYeah, just adjust the mic or something.

52:09SpeakerIt was probably something happened when you... Look at that, they're still giving up. Beazle's Pennywise Shatter.

52:19BubblemanJam Band. Oh, Jam Band. I haven't heard Jam Band in so long. I saw that, dude. I was like, oh my God, that looks good. Isn't Jam Band from Legends? Whoever wrote Jam Band, tell me if those seeds are from Legends and if it's like a blueberry crossed with like a Neville's Haze or something. I thought it was like DJ Short's Blueberry crossed with like Neville's Haze or something.

52:45BubblemanJam Band. I haven't seen that name in so long. Whoever wrote that, I really would like to... That's Todd who has the echo, not Tony. Tony's not in the room. He's at the Cannabis Cup with a lot of other people in Sandburg.

53:01SpeakerA lot of 90 micron stuff I've seen coming across. There's definitely a lot of bubble being smoked.

53:06BubblemanA lot of herbs, a lot of bubs, lots of Earl. People are inhaling cannabinoids, and I'm happy to see. Anyway, we demuted you there, Sam. I just wanted to check. You're good to go now. Hey, you just wondered if I made a difference on the mic. I don't know. It used to happen to Horatio. Ask him what he used to do. I actually turned it down from 74 to 50.

53:29BubblemanSo, Todd and Mark. Yes. Suomi Laval. You got that one? Oh my gosh, yeah. It's on my shelf over here somewhere.

53:39SpeakerYeah, I got it for Todd. I got a copy myself. I love that book. I've had that book.

53:43BubblemanIt's a pretty tasty one. It's a tasty one. There's really, really...

53:47SpeakerThere's books like it that was such a large book with such large pictures of... I love that, dude. ...first ways of making hash. I mean, it was the first way that I saw how all these different cuts from rubbing, from hand rubbing to the... Yeah, show the women seething in the dark room.

54:06BubblemanThat's like the greatest picture with the sunlight coming through the window. It's just like, he got a couple definitely like banger shots. I'm sure when he took the shot, he felt like, oh my God.

54:17SpeakerDid anybody know who this guy was, Simone Laval, who actually did it? Sam, have you ever met him?

54:23BubblemanNo, I never did. Yeah, I've never seen him in the scene at all, but had the book for probably 20 years.

54:29SpeakerI saw the book originally on Ed Rosenthal when I was working for Ed Rosenthal. I saw it on a shelf and I was blown away by it. And of course, I asked to borrow it and he let me borrow it and read it. And it was the first book that I had seen. And it's from the 70s. We're probably in the late 70s. So it was really such a snapshot in time of hash making that was never present in High Times or any of the other books that I had seen.

54:54SpeakerSo it was one of the first visual tools that I saw for great hash making.

55:00BubblemanYeah, definitely.

55:01SpeakerNo one I know has ever met the author or knows of the author, and I've asked everyone who has a copy of the book, and no one has ever put anything on it.

55:11BubblemanYep, he's definitely an elusive character. I've never heard hide nor hair about him other than from that book. People want to know how Sam cracks seeds when they're old. Old seeds. What do you do? Uh...

55:25BubblemanIt depends how, what is old and how have they been kept? Well, you know, maybe, well that's another thing, maybe how, you like to keep your seeds obviously cold?

55:37SpeakerYeah, I keep them like at plus four or five centigrade.

55:42BubblemanFour or five centigrade, nice. And how long is the, what's the oldest seed that you've ever seen crack, like maintained like that?

55:52SpeakerJust cold like that. 25 plus years.

55:57BubblemanYeah. I went 20, 19 years myself, and they were not in cold the entire time. For 19 years, for probably nine years, they were just at room temperature. And then for the next 10 years.

56:10SpeakerI can honestly say I had some that were 24 years old, and I got 95% germination. And this was not on some little test. I tested 100 seeds of

56:26SpeakerAnd I did this to, you know, 25 different varieties because I have more than a thousand under refrigeration and a thousand different varieties.

56:38BubblemanI think it was DJ Short who told me that sometimes if they're, you know, decent, like strong seeds but they just won't crack, he'll kind of like squeeze them gently in his finger after he's soaked them in the water or whatever and he'll just like... Until the front of the seed just pops a tiny bit, and he's actually had success from that. I was kind of surprised.

56:59SpeakerI guess what I normally would try to do is try to use it before it's gone. But yeah, if it's really, really old, maybe it is too old and it should be donated to the Bylos Evolution Project, where if you can't grow the seed anyway... And it's a land race. If it's a hybrid, then it's no big thing. But if it's a land race, then even dead seeds can be DNA sequenced and we can get information from it.

57:31BubblemanIs that what you're doing with those 2,000-year-old seeds that you showed me one time when I was at your house?

57:37SpeakerYeah, yeah. Correct. That's what we will do, yes.

57:42BubblemanYeah, that was interesting.

57:42SpeakerYou extract the DNA and sequence it.

57:45BubblemanVery cool. Sitting on your couch and just blazed out of my head and you throw those on my lap and I'm like, what are these? And you're just like, didn't you hear about that mummy that they found with the seeds?

57:56SpeakerI have five or six batches that are more than 1,000 years old.

58:00BubblemanJesus.

58:02SpeakerWell, you are- One that's about 2,000. Yeah, that's- The ones that I got from the-

58:11SpeakerHermitage Museum, and they were originally dug up in a leather pouch in the Scythian grave.

58:17BubblemanRight.

58:18SpeakerThose are the ones you showed me, and I felt... Is that the water of the young woman was found in the Scythian tomb giving birth? I'm not sure about the girl giving birth. It was the Pazarak tomb. Tazarectum, yeah. I just... Look it up online. It's real well known.

58:36BubblemanBlown away when you put those in my hand.

58:38SpeakerThey gave me eight of the seeds that were in the little pouch. I don't know. There might have been a thousand or two in that little pouch, but they gave me eight of them.

58:48BubblemanWow. It's amazing that you have those, dude, is all I'm saying. It's awesome. It's... I probably, no, I don't think I did take, you know what, I think I might have even taken a picture of those two. I have so many great pictures that I've never posted from your place. But it's nice that you're sharing it with people. People love to see stuff like that. I mean, my God, you're blowing people's minds in the chat room right now.

59:10BubblemanYou definitely blew the minds off the top of at least a thousand people.

59:14SpeakerTodd's eyebrows went up. Are they extracting DNA from those seeds, Sam? Not mine yet. What we're doing first is they're going to test a bunch of older museum samples like seeds that are 100 years old or 200 years old and make sure that we can, because we know that the DNA will be broken up and fractured. So Either we'll be able to put it back together or we won't.

59:47SpeakerAnd we want to make sure we can before we dick around with the ones that are 2,000 years old that there's only eight of.

59:56BubblemanI mean, for work like that, you could probably contact that institute, no?

1:00:02SpeakerContact who?

1:00:03BubblemanThe people that gave you the eight.

1:00:09BubblemanThe people that produced the seeds, that gave you the seeds initially, I mean, if you needed...

1:00:14SpeakerOh yeah, no, no, yeah, because I worked, who took me over to the Hermitage Museum, me and Rob, we were together, was the folks from the Babelock Institute. We had been giving them a grant for five years to help them conserve the cannabis collection because they had no money and they were broke and everything was falling apart.

1:00:39BubblemanRight, yeah, I remember it well. That's kind of how the, what was it now, the Institute of Bass Fibers that Goroborodko and the Ukrainian guys were when we first met them, they couldn't even afford to put gas in their tractors. It was a real bummer.

1:00:55SpeakerYep, well, when we went there, their collection of herbal samples and seeds and stuff like that, the roof was leaking and So they had to move stuff out of the way and that was fucked up.

1:01:13BubblemanYeah, that's fucked up. That must have hurt your soul a little bit.

1:01:16SpeakerWhat they had was they had no money to grow their collection. They had a collection of 400 varieties which they had to grow rotating every three years. You understand?

1:01:28BubblemanYeah.

1:01:30SpeakerSo every year they had to grow like 150 varieties, say, you know, at different locations depending on where they needed to be grown. And, yeah, they just had no money there. And so after four, five years of that sort of a situation, the collection starts being defunct, though.

1:01:52BubblemanYeah, that's too bad.

1:01:54SpeakerBut we stepped in in time, but... Now, I have a lot of questions on whether or not their reproductions kept the varieties truly true, or whether or not there was either genetic drift or contamination. Our intentions were the best for this five-year project, but what we actually accomplished, who knows? Right.

1:02:20BubblemanWell, that's, you guys definitely, from what I know about you, you guys always have the good intentions with the work that you do, and I, for one, am glad that you guys have done it, because whether people realize it or not, a lot of what we experience today is the direct results of many different projects that you guys decided to work on.

1:02:43BubblemanSo, props. I'll hit that.

1:02:46SpeakerGot to give you thanks as well, Sam, I mean, for your many years of dedication to the plant and the genetic and, you know, all those that even came before you that inspired you, you know. But thank you for being that key that had turned on generations. I always felt that I stood on the shoulders of giants like Luther Burbank and people like that who were always my heroes, you know, because Luther Burbank was...

1:03:16SpeakerNot some fancy breeder. He was a selection breeder who grew thousands of plants and selected out the couple of best, you know. And that's really close to my heart. He was a fascinating character for all the different fruiting trees that he created and mastered as well as, you know, he was a Swedenborgian even. I was fascinated reading in my liturgical histories, et cetera, et cetera. But, well, you're one of the giants that we all are thankful to stand on the shoulders of, so I just got to say thanks for my own self.

1:03:54SpeakerWell, I can honestly say that everything that I've done in my life, if I wouldn't have done it, somebody else would have. I mean, I was probably lucky in that I had the ability to manifest it a little bit earlier than anybody else because it was really close to my heart. That's what interests me most in life is cannabis. So I'm just following... My heart, really.

1:04:27BubblemanCan't go wrong when you follow your passion and follow your heart.

1:04:31SpeakerYeah, I think many of us feel the same way. And your nose.

1:04:35BubblemanAnd your nose. Man, I just took a rip of that strawberry banana. I cannot believe how terpy that strain is.

1:04:42SpeakerI don't have no strawberry banana.

1:04:45BubblemanMan, if you're looking for a DNA strain, that is on. I mean, all their strains are on point. But this one, I might have to say, is my new favorite. Holy Christ, is it fruity and delicious. Good job. Sunrise Wellness Center, that's where you can actually buy that in Vancouver. I'm going today to go buy a couple of grams of that.

1:05:07SpeakerMark, what do you think is the loudest? I understand exactly what you mean and I have some great stories to follow it up with. First of all, most people won't be surprised when I say Rene.

1:05:19BubblemanNow Rene is a strain that I first came across in the late 90s when I started doing bubble bags, early 2000s, and it's

1:05:39BubblemanIt's a lot like DJ Short's Blueberry. We bred Rene. Rene, nobody knows. It came from a guy in Montreal named Dr. Rene. There were so many different convoluted stories. It was brought from Montreal to BC by my friend, and that's where I first saw it. From that point on... Widely, narrowly? It's a fairly narrow leaf, actually. It's not a super wide leaf. It's in between, kind of.

1:06:04BubblemanIt's a very, very dense nugget, and I'll tell you, we called it... Pot to get you busted. My friend got busted with a half pound of it in his backpack driving his bike in Vancouver and a cop was nearby and caught a whiff of him. We've had countless people kicked out of hotel rooms. A tiny little bud, like a little bud in my top pocket at the early part of the day smoked the joint.

1:06:29BubblemanThis was years ago. Got back in my car hours later and drove through a roadblock and the cop leans his head in and he says, oh, oh, one second. And he goes and gets the head cop and the head cop leans his head in. I don't have any pipes. I don't have any weed. I literally have nothing in my car. But I had a butt of Renee in my pocket that morning.

1:06:50BubblemanAnd he says to me, this is the head cop who comes over the whatever, I don't even know, lieutenant. He says... Oh, I'm an expert on marijuana grow-ups, and I can absolutely tell that you've just been in a marijuana grow-up. This is what he tells me, and I've already been busted at a roadblock with like 20 pounds of weed, and I know he knows that. And I was so confident, I said, listen dude, I had one bud of beautiful stinky weed, you're welcome to bring your head close and smell my pocket, because that's where the entire smell in this car is emanating from right now.

1:07:27BubblemanAnd he let me go without even searching me.

1:07:30SpeakerThat's because he could tell you were searching.

1:07:34BubblemanIt was also herb that taught me the difference between the solubility of the terpenes, because before Renee, most of the strains washed out in the water. That's why a lot of people weren't excited about water hash. And as it was Shishkaberry from Breeders Steve that I first saw these terpenes that were able to be washed through the water, Thank you for watching.

1:08:13SpeakerOh, cool. Yeah, no, that's cool. Because then maybe if it's a simple hybrid or something, maybe we can figure it out.

1:08:20BubblemanWell, you know what? I'll tell you one thing about Rene, and it used to throw a lot of people off. It almost always put out male bananas towards the end, around nine weeks, eight weeks. Yeah. And because of it, a lot of people cut Rene down. And Rene...

1:08:37SpeakerAlthough it was good cut down at nine weeks, it was really much... Did it actually ever produce fertile pollen or seeds?

1:08:45BubblemanNever a single seed in all, and I saw literally hundreds of pounds.

1:08:49SpeakerIt was just annoying more than anything else. It threw people off, let me tell you. It's not photogenic.

1:08:55BubblemanNo, they'd see the bananas, and then they'd assume that they knew everything about it, and it would be like, oh, that... I'm like, listen, man, all I know is this. If you can find a single seed that's ever produced out of here, my friend will literally give you a pound of the Renee for that seed. So people were looking. It's not like the seeds weren't being looked for.

1:09:16BubblemanHe wanted a seed of it. It just never produced a seed. Not even a ball. Not even a white, you know, those weird little pre-seeds.

1:09:25SpeakerYeah, well, I forget what they, what, what, What people call this, but it's like throwing a few bananas at the end or something is what in common people call it. But yeah, I mean if it really truly, it'd be curious to look inside the male flowers and see is there viable pollen. You could test it with tetrazoleum or something like that.

1:09:53BubblemanI've macro photographed it and I never saw the pollen. It's just bananas.

1:10:01SpeakerSo they might be functionally sterile.

1:10:04BubblemanYeah, that's what I mean.

1:10:06SpeakerSo what they do is, because sometimes you'll produce male flowers on a female clone with STS or with one of the silver ions. And what happens is sometimes it will produce male flowers. Thank you for joining us.

1:10:40SpeakerSo it doesn't want to die. He's the pollen. It just sticks inside the male flowers. If you open them up with the Q-tip, you can actually use the pollen.

1:10:50BubblemanYeah, I never actually tried to open them up, but I will say that, you know, you potentially have something there with Renee because it is such a tightly compact grown bud. And it's super resinous. And when I did macro photograph these bananas, what I found on them, and I don't know if you know what these are. I don't know if they're, I always assumed they were like a gland head that were getting peeled off the trichomes as it was growing.

1:11:17BubblemanBut they're literally perfect glandular heads that go across the open part of the male banana. That's resin. It is resin, but does it grow? Yeah. What? Is it what? Does it grow right there, or is it pulled off the heads? No, no, no.

1:11:34SpeakerThat's where it grows. Not only that, I've always been curious, and I think it's true, that if you tested that resin and saw nevanoid and terpene profiles in it, the resin, and then grew that plant as a female... Instead of a... Because you're talking about male flowers on the... Yeah, no, no, wait a minute. I'm confusing two issues here.

1:12:06BubblemanNo, but I photographed them on male plants as well. I get what you're saying. You're wondering if the profile of those glands would be... Well, no, here's what I meant.

1:12:14SpeakerI was... If it was a male plant, you could have turned it a female. But it wasn't a male plant. It was, in fact, a female plant just expressing a few bananas at the end. Yeah, exactly. So... Because the first time we turned males female, and then we were able to actually test what terpenes and cannabinoids they produced. The buds weren't chunky, but the first time we did that, it was really quite amazing.

1:12:43SpeakerI bet. What does the terpene profile look like on the Rene, Mark?

1:12:49BubblemanI've never actually seen the terpene profile of the Rene. Maybe the Great Gardener has it, so that's not true. I may have seen it, but off the top of my head, I can't say what spiked was the particular, you know, there's probably going to be at least two or three big terpene spikes on Rene, because this is a strain where a tiny little bud... You know where a decent sized bud, you break it all off and all you have is the very tip of it, like maybe the size of like your fingernail with the rest of the stock, was behind my bookshelf once.

1:13:22BubblemanAnd every time I walked from my computer office into my kitchen, I would smell this bud. And I didn't have Renee at this time. I was like, damn, that smells like Renee. And I actually found that bud. Just, you know, not really far behind.

1:13:36SpeakerSo Lark, do you think it has more terpenes, or do you think maybe it has more monoterpenes that are more volatile so it loses them faster, or maybe both?

1:13:49BubblemanIt doesn't really lose them fast, but they're definitely being like pushed out because you can smell them, put it this way, if it was a contest. And it was like, let's see who can smell these buds from the farthest distance. And we'll all have our buds in different places and you'll walk slowly and we'll see at what point do people... This bud is so fucking loud, Dave, or Sam, that it's ridiculous.

1:14:15BubblemanIt just got people in trouble. It was actually really... The one bummer about it is that it got a lot of people in trouble. Growing it, you had to really have your shit together with how you exhausted your room. Because it was just so stinky in flower, and I mean like stinky. It could be a skunk number one pheno of some sort, honestly. I wish I could smell it.

1:14:40BubblemanWell, we'll make it happen one day in some country.

1:14:43SpeakerIf I could smell it. Then I can tell you if it's skunk or if it's at least half skunk, I can tell instantly.

1:14:51BubblemanIt's very fruity, but it has a hazy smell to it. So here's a strain that smells like fruit in the bag. Unless you have a real good nose, you can smell that subtle haze in the background. But then when you burn it and you blow it into the air, that's when it smells just hazy. And that's what I loved about it, fruity and hazy. Super loud that turned bubble hash.

1:15:14BubblemanI mean, really, it was Rene that put bubble bags on the map. You know, it was... Have you made dry sift with it? I have had dry sift from it, absolutely, yeah. Full melt, the 99%. It's incredible.

1:15:31SpeakerSam, what does the profile look like for skunk number one? So what gives it that real... I have to find the paper. I've got it filed away somewhere. I'll try to find it so next week I can talk about that. But its prominent thing is limonene followed by myrcene. Limonene? Yeah. Limonene followed by Myrcene. So like the essence of scum. And both Limonene and Myrcene not only modulate cannabis, THC, but they also potentiate.

1:16:15SpeakerBoth of them do. Pining does a little bit and some of the other ones a little bit too. But those are the two main that I found that are potentiators of THC and make it stronger. Yeah, and it all makes sense based on the discussion we had last week around allosteric inhibitors or allosteric activators for the CB1 and CB2 receptors. So those compounds are acting not on the receptor site itself, but acting somewhere else On the enzyme or on the protein to, you know, tune up the, you know, volume.

1:16:52SpeakerI used to even think it was possible they were acting on the membrane surfaces. But I don't know this, so this is really beyond me. This is up to the science guys to figure out. Yeah, that's actually now known. So basically, you know, the terpenes do show this effect of making the membrane more fluid and exchanging and opening up ion channels and just Opening up the cell for business.

1:17:18SpeakerYou've got to remember, before Bill DeVayne discovered anandamide and the CB1, CB2 receptors, the going opinion around was that THC worked by membrane, screwing around with the membrane. That's how they thought THC worked until they found out about the cell. What, like a wrench in the wire or something? Well, no, it was just sort of in a nonspecific way, not on a particular receptor, but just to increase the exchange in fluidity between the inner and outer portions of the cell, right?

1:18:03SpeakerI mean, to act in a general sense, maybe to activate other ion channels or to activate other transport mechanisms that just starts Turning up and up-regulating the cells. I'm afraid I can't think of the proper term at this moment, so I won't say anything. I can remember I saw speeches by Nahas at the ICRS meetings 10, 15 years ago. He was talking about cell membrane modulation is how the THC...

1:18:41SpeakerYou know, great CFX events. And he was denying that there were CB1 and CB2 receptors. But then soon afterwards, they discovered, first they discovered the receptors, then they discovered anandamide, and yeah, so. What did you think of Gabriel Nahas? Because I have nothing to add. He was actually hilarious. The last time I saw him, He gave a presentation to the ICRS meeting and he actually said, marijuana is dangerous because THC disrupts the cellular functioning in the body.

1:19:27SpeakerIt's not like morphine. And then he did like this with his arm.

1:19:36SpeakerAnd he goes, you can do that and it doesn't harm the human being. And everybody at the ICRS was taken back. And actually, Dr. Mishulam stepped up and started trying to talk over and pointed out a few of his fallacies of thinking. I saw him a couple times there, too.

1:20:02BubblemanOh, my God. I wish I had that on film. It might be on film, because maybe, maybe. Wow, we'll have to put the word out. There's a thousand people watching. What event was that at?

1:20:20SpeakerIt was at the ICRS meeting, but I don't remember where. I think it was before France. I went to all the ICRS meetings, so I can't remember. No worries. It could have been France or Germany. I just don't remember.

1:20:40BubblemanYeah. So many, so many over the years, I'm sure.

1:20:47SpeakerSim, I wanted to go back to a point you mentioned. You basically said that moving from the roadkill type skunk to the fruity skunk was a shift in just like mainly the percentages of limonene versus myrcene. How...

1:21:06SpeakerHow much of an effect does that have? Let's say I just cured something like shit and I altered the ratio of limnin to myrcene. How much can the actual preservation of terpenes or the lack of preservation damage a stream's genetic representation to the point it becomes a different phenol? Well, of course it will, because let me tell you something. Most cannabis out there has large amounts of THC and little to nothing else cannabinoid-wise.

1:21:38SpeakerIt's just THC. That is what Western cannabis breeders have developed, just pure THC. It's bearing anywhere from 10 to 20%. I'm not optimistic, you know. Hey, who's this?

1:21:56Ryan Dank AfWhat's up, gentlemen?

1:21:59SpeakerHey.

1:22:02Ryan Dank AfGabriel Nahas was the head piss tester, so it's no surprise that he was, you know, taking all these crazy stances.

1:22:09SpeakerHe's an evil prohibitionist. I did an expose on him in my magazine 20 years ago. He was the one that went after Mishka for basically saying that she was calling the government liars, which she was, in her whole libel court case. 20 years ago in France, you weren't even allowed to say that the emperor was naked. That's because at the time in France, Nahas was the cannabis expert god.

1:22:40Ryan Dank AfAmazing where we've come from, really. They put all this money into... You know what?

1:22:46SpeakerThe meeting might have been in France. And all I remember is that Meshulam stepped up and put Nahas in his place, which I thought was pretty cool. As he should have.

1:23:00Ryan Dank AfYeah, but it's hard for people to let go of these belief systems that you hold for years and years, you know? He was utterly convinced that cannabis was the devil. Fred Berner actually wrote a great little article on that whole...

1:23:13SpeakerIt modulates cells on the cellular level.

1:23:20SpeakerThe membranes, the cell membranes, they're ruined by cannabis.

1:23:25Ryan Dank AfThat's how alcohol works, and I think because they didn't know how cannabis worked, that was one of the leading theories for a long time.

1:23:31SpeakerNo, it was, for the longest time, until people proved that it works through a set group right now.

1:23:39BubblemanHey, here's a good one, guys. Debbie Goldsberry is in the chat. She said, I met Nahas once and he told me that all the future generations of my family were ruined because of my marijuana use, eugenics.

1:23:56SpeakerThat's right. Poor Debbie. She ruined the cellular membranes.

1:24:03BubblemanThat's just insane, man. That guy, he is hilarious.

1:24:09Ryan Dank AfHe wrote all these books that were really hard for him.

1:24:11SpeakerI've got at least five or six of his different books, you know. And most of them are all about cannabis and how it's, you know, going to fuck you over. Well, he's the one who created the 1961 UN Treaty that we're fighting and you're dealing with right now up in Canada trying to fight for legalization. So that's still ongoing. Yeah.

1:24:34SpeakerYou better hope Kevin Sabat doesn't get a hold of these books. That'd be smart. That fucker definitely left his mark. You better hope Kevin Sabat doesn't get these books. I also met all kinds of interesting people. For example, I met Tashkin. At the time, everybody was convinced that Because this was like five or ten years ago that Tashkin was absolutely against cannabis. But I talked to him and his mind was completely open.

1:25:03SpeakerAnd within a year or two he had published proof that smoking large amounts of cannabis for whatever reasons is not anywhere near the kind of damaging that it is with tobacco. Cannabis basically has some sort of a protectant effect so that Smokers sometimes get a little bit of bronchitis or something from just smoking too much large volumes of smoke. But THC, et cetera, is not harmful to people.

1:25:36SpeakerWell, the UCLA study found that cannabis smokers had a lower incident. Right, and that was a Tashkin study. Yeah, than people who don't smoke at all. It was a Tashkin study. No, he came to the ICRS a few years later and announced that. It was totally, totally cool. All of a sudden, he was the hero, whereas I had been telling people for the last few years, hey, this guy's a nice guy.

1:26:01SpeakerHe's cool. Everybody was looking at me like I was crazy. I did the same thing with everybody. I did the same thing with Ernie Small. Ernie Small. I liked Ernie Small. And everybody says, oh, he's the one who set the limit for hemp at 0.3%. No, he never did that. That's what the governments around the world read his information and decided to do. It was not his advice to them.

1:26:31Ryan Dank AfHe said there seems to be a difference in the two species at this point. And then, you know, all the legal folks turned around and said, hey, we can use this as a way to, you know, to set the limit. It's really crazy because, as you know, a lot of hemp has much more than 0.3% cannabinoids.

1:26:48SpeakerAnd when you restrict, when you set that as a... European hemp that's been bred for low THC is that way. And a few varieties are naturally low like that. But no, hemp has to be kept below 0.3.

1:27:03Ryan Dank AfYeah. Yeah. And, you know, they severely restricted the gene pool again by doing that. You took a slice of all the plants that could be grown.

1:27:12SpeakerAnd that's why the French grow monoecious varieties. But the trouble is, of course, that monoecious varieties are naturally inbred and less vigorous. So, I mean, it's a... But we've got this, you know, Manchurian strain that's been growing domestic throughout the United States for a decade that we can't use that because it's above the DHC content. So... That's a frustration, and that's one that's acclimated or could actually be researched in further throughout Nebraska.

1:27:41SpeakerYeah, but if you really care, you could take any variety and lower the THC value to pretty much zip within a few generations. But it requires a GC-assisted breeding on a large scale of thousands of plants. Right, and they'd need a permit to do that because they'd be heading, they'd want to be given a throw call tomorrow because above the end, Yeah, well, the dirty secret there is as soon as you make a concentrate of that 0.3% plant, you no longer have 0.3%, right?

1:28:13SpeakerBecause you've now increased the concentration of your cannabinoids in your extract. Well, you're talking about the folks who are going after CBD. Yeah, exactly right. So they might be 0.3% in the plant, but in the extract, the The variety that we developed for GW Pharmaceuticals, what basically happened was it was about .25.

1:28:44SpeakerSo it was actually legal to grow. It was more like .2, .25 at the most. It was actually legal to grow outdoors in the U.K. without a special license or permit because it was just considered industrial.

1:29:01Ryan Dank AfWhich I understand they no longer do anymore actually in the U.K. They only do the THC varieties. I think they do the other ones in Portugal.

1:29:09SpeakerSo they grow them in Portugal now. Even in England, we developed that variety extremely early, the variety they call Grace. And what happened was they could certainly grow it outdoors most year in England, but it was probably hard to grow it proper, whereas in Portugal it's probably pretty easy.

1:29:33Ryan Dank AfAnd they had a lot of mold problems and issues like that in the UK. There you go. The environment's not great, as you know, so.

1:29:39SpeakerYeah. It really depends on the weather. If it's a rainy, cold one, you're fucked. And if it's not, maybe you're lucky. Yeah. But I mean... Are those natural varieties? What now? I was wondering if those are natural varieties or the selection of those varieties was after... No, we created those varieties and then licensed them to GW. But there are varieties which we were able to find and just through a little bit of clonal selection improved them slightly.

1:30:17Ryan Dank AfIf you look through all the inheritance papers, Mark, Sheldon, you can see all that stuff is listed. The heritage of everything is listed in there.

1:30:24SpeakerYeah, exactly. Yeah, so I guess the question is in the breeding of those plants, so I mean, can that be just come Complete by happenstance by someone who's not looking to breed for those levels and be basically interfering. What we did was we looked at cannabinary contents of known varieties worldwide. And we found the ones that had fairly high T8, or excuse me, CBD. We found varieties that were Uh, CBG, or THCV, or whatever.

1:31:06SpeakerAnd then we, uh, use, use those as our starter materials. But, with THC, we, we used skunk. For, uh, for CBD, we used, uh, uh, Turkish and German varieties, if I remember correctly. But, yeah. And we selected clones. And then we made hybrids from those clones to produce seeds, which I probably did GW. Right, but like a popular strain like for CBD here is like ACDC. The best I saw ours was about 10% THC from manicured buds and about 2%.

1:31:58SpeakerExcuse me, 2% THC, 0.2% THC, and 10% CBD.

1:32:07Ryan Dank AfACDC sucks, as far as type 3 plants go.

1:32:10SpeakerWell, I didn't think this stuff tasted very good either. I signed smoking, so I'm just going to fuck with it. To me, it tasted suck. Yeah, I think the focus here is for patients with Dravet's. I'm interested in the amount of THC that's effective in adding it to CBD to try to control Dravet's.

1:32:31Ryan Dank AfYeah, and it's great for that.

1:32:34SpeakerWe delivered that to GW more than 15, 16, 17, 18 years, quite a while ago. I mean, we had a basically pure CBD variety. Now it's still produced a tiny, tiny bit of THC, but really diddly squat.

1:32:53Ryan Dank AfYeah, we produced a whole bunch of new type 3 plants. Type 3 plants, for those of you that don't know, are plants that produce a lot of CBD and very, very little THC. And ACDC is one that was isolated early and a lot of people shared it around.

1:33:08SpeakerWhy do you think it still produces a tiny bit of THC? Do you think it's because there's variant synthases of That aren't, that are still happening, why is there still a little tiny bit of THC?

1:33:23Ryan Dank AfWell, that was, I don't know if I sent you that paper, there's a paper on the gene duplication, and they used your skunk, it was done with, they did the growing at UMass, but it was, you know, Weeblen up north.

1:33:34SpeakerOh yeah, I saw, I've got that paper.

1:33:36Ryan Dank AfYeah, so if you read through that, you see that they actually disproved the BTBD formula, Theory?

1:33:44SpeakerThey say that there's dual ones. So what you're saying is one of them is B, D, B, D, and the other one is B, D, B, T. Well, no, because that B, D, B, T is actually not right.

1:33:55Ryan Dank AfThat would be a one locus model, and it's actually a two locus, two loci model.

1:34:00SpeakerThat's what I thought I was just describing.

1:34:03Ryan Dank AfAnd so what they were saying is that the THC, the functional THC is... On a chromosome that's tied to a non-functional CBD or a minimally functional CBD and that the functional CBD is on the same spot on a different chromosome tied to a non-functional THC. But it's obviously like, you know, like the CBG story that the non-functional CBD allele is actually a minimally functional CBD allele. So it works a little bit, just not very well.

1:34:33Ryan Dank AfAnd so that's probably what it's from. That they're still producing just a little ambient bit of THC in the process.

1:34:41SpeakerYep. Because it's really, really hard to get a variety that, for example, only produces THC with absolutely zero CBD. But it actually may be easier than the other way around. Because...

1:35:01SpeakerI could present a theory that there could be related enzymes, not necessarily the synthases that do background, so you're going to always have a little bit of all those cannabinoids in the plant, but it's the synthase and the expression of the synthase that essentially acts as a catalyst to drain CBG into that manifold in the plant. So the notion is, again, it's kind of like what a chemist would call... Well, if that was true, Mark, then they would find copies of the genes for the other synthases.

1:35:33SpeakerAnd I don't believe they do, do they, Ryan?

1:35:35Ryan Dank AfI actually don't know if they do all that stuff.

1:35:41Ryan Dank AfA lot of these, I mean, there's a lot of theories on what it could be, but a lot of the science is still to be done. I mean, this, you know, this gene duplication paper was late 2015, so it's like, this is all ongoing work. One of the things that they did show was that there was, I don't know if it was McKernan's group or if it was the UMIS group, but they show that there was like six or eight homologs.

1:36:05SpeakerVersions of the THC and CBD thin cases, yeah.

1:36:08Ryan Dank AfYeah, and so some of them are functional and some of them are partial genes or pseudo genes. Essentially, they're gene duplications that didn't get a complete copy in that process.

1:36:20SpeakerWas that the same paper that showed that the skunk has, in fact, CBD synthase genes?

1:36:27Ryan Dank AfI believe it was.

1:36:28SpeakerThey're non-functional.

1:36:30Ryan Dank AfBut it could also have been because McKernan is doing some of this work also.

1:36:33SpeakerThat's the only way I would actually allow CBD genes into the sperm was if they were non-functional in behavior.

1:36:42Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, I mean, funnily enough, you know, if you look back at the 2,700-year-old seeds that they found in China, those were probably the same condition too. And I think what we've actually been doing, humanity has been doing in our relationship with the plant is, You know, part of going through a field and smoking all the best ones and finding the best ones, what you're doing there is you're selecting against the ones that don't have all the functional genes.

1:37:10Ryan Dank AfSo it's actually the type of thing that's done pretty easily.

1:37:15BubblemanI agree.

1:37:16Ryan Dank AfYeah.

1:37:18BubblemanSo this guy in chat is saying, so you're saying that the DeMeyer study theory is inaccurate?

1:37:23Ryan Dank AfWell, no, if you read the paper, this is one of the things about DeMoura and Dave Iron.

1:37:28SpeakerNo, he mentions it, right, Ryan? He mentions it. That's right, he does. There's another possibility.

1:37:35Ryan Dank AfYeah, and that's one of the things. Sam has always maintained that ATN is probably one of the best breeders in the world, if not the best breeder in the world. Even though he's not a cannabis consumer, but he's really figured out all these things. And when he says in the paper that the BTB deal is not true, he said, it's either this or it's possible that there's two loci that are very tightly linked.

1:37:59Ryan Dank AfAnd so, you know, the beauty part about what he said is that even when he was wrong, he was right, you know. So, but yeah, it seems to indicate right now that that theory, although you can use it and the inheritance still works in that one to two to one inheritance pattern, that it's actually not true. It's two differently tightly linked genes. Look up gene duplication in cannabis.

1:38:25Ryan Dank AfIf you Google that, you should come across the paper and it's George Weeblen and... All the folks at Mississippi, Mahmoud El-Soli and all those folks. And you'll find the paper, and if you read it really carefully, you'll see all the stuff is in there.

1:38:45BubblemanTa-da! Welcome to Tony. Tony, what's going on, dude? I can't believe you found a quiet place to join us.

1:38:54SpeakerWell, good morning to everyone, by the way. We are faring out the tropical storm here in San Bernardino, where they Not continuing the event today until 1 o'clock, if not postponed for the day.

1:39:11BubblemanI ordered that for you, Tony.

1:39:13SpeakerHuh?

1:39:14BubblemanI ordered that up so you could be here.

1:39:17SpeakerYeah, I figured that you must have done something. You must have called NASA. You must have done something to where you're like, you know, I'm going to get them on Hash Church.

1:39:28SpeakerDrug content.

1:39:29BubblemanIt's world modulation.

1:39:32SpeakerIs it just raining too much? They shut it down early? You know, I actually got on here to make fun of how bad the weather was. Because we were in Jamaica and it poured the whole time and we were in like seven inches of water. And there was electricity and nails around us at all times. So it was a lot more intense journey. This one, when I woke up this morning and they said it was canceled...

1:39:59SpeakerLiterally, there was a bird in the yard right back here. That was like... Not any wind, not any problems. Insects were out. I was like, oh yeah, some storm. And then as I set up out here, I started to see the trees start swaying a little harder. So I think they're supposed to be 70 mile an hour winds. But either way, I found a nice little... We had this Airbnb...

1:40:29SpeakerIt's rented out, so it's a nice little backyard with a little pool. I'm session out here, man, because this was the damage that was done in the jar yesterday. It was full.

1:40:45BubblemanIt must have been a dab fest. Were there 500 vendors at that event?

1:40:51SpeakerYeah, it's bigger than Disney World. Most people are on carts, and...

1:40:59SpeakerThey're just all over the place. Let me see if I can get you this. Hard to see. It's like super red. I don't know if the pictures ever did it justice, but I'm going to smoke a big hella bowl of it right now.

1:41:13BubblemanWell, I guess that's what we're doing right now. Tony's popped in to take us all on a little bong rip journey. We were having nice conversations, Chimera and Skunk Man. We're getting into some different discussions about... Interesting topics. Yeah, I was looking at this paper. This is the one. Oh, you found the paper. Here, one sec. I'll click on your camera. Boom. Which one is that now?

1:41:40BubblemanThe Gene Duplication and Divergence Affecting Drug Content in Cannabis Sativa.

1:41:47SpeakerInteresting.

1:41:49BubblemanThat is a truly great paper. Can you post it, or is it one they have to buy?

1:41:56Ryan Dank AfI'll send it to you. I'll send a digital copy to you when I get home.

1:42:00SpeakerCan you post it, Chimera?

1:42:02Ryan Dank AfYeah, I'll send it to him when I get home. I'm on the road right now, but I'll email it to you this week, Mark.

1:42:08BubblemanYeah, that'd be great. Then I can put it in. People will text me and ask me to put it in the Hash Church group, I can guarantee you.

1:42:13SpeakerHe just said, great. The truth of it is, in the last two, three, four years, molecular biology is completely changing. How we will understand cannabis. In the next five to ten years, it will change breeding, it will change everything we do with cannabis. It will be amazing.

1:42:39Ryan Dank AfIt's interesting, that paper though, what they did is they took, because I guess Sam provided some seeds legally, the people in the states that have licenses to work are allowed to acquire seeds from all over the world. And so, Soli's group had a DEA license which would allow them to import seeds.

1:43:01SpeakerAnd Sam says... Any licensed person that wanted seeds for research, even if I thought they might be looking for bad things, I felt that cannabis was good and it would will out and that the knowledge that we gained from it would be beneficial in the long run. So I supply them to anybody. And I like Dr. O'Stoley, so that was easy. But I also supply them to many other researchers worldwide that wanted to do research.

1:43:36SpeakerAll they had to do was send me a license so that I could legally send them to the United States or to whatever country it is they wanted to do the research.

1:43:46Ryan Dank AfYeah. So I think they bred the... I mean, you know, the skunk is already relatively true breeding, and they... They bred it one brother to one sister for six generations.

1:43:56SpeakerI think it was five. Whatever. I thought that was quite interesting. I wish I could have smelled what they did, what they ended up with.

1:44:04Ryan Dank AfYeah, yeah. I would have been curious. Well, I'd like to see how much loss of vigor there was, too.

1:44:10SpeakerWell, that's one of the things I was curious about.

1:44:13Ryan Dank AfYeah, because it's probably the first and only isozygous line in cannabis.

1:44:19SpeakerIt's one of the most homogenous varieties that we tested for. I mean, compared to hemp when we tested it, when Etchen was working for me, we did this and we found out that, in fact, it was way more homogenous than any hemp variety.

1:44:36Ryan Dank AfRight, well, and then they did six generations of one-to-one mating, brother to sister. You know, that really narrows down the pool. I would think so. So it would be interesting to have...

1:44:48SpeakerIt's not as bad as selfing it on a single plant basis. Theoretically, it should be the same once you get down to... No, because if you have a male and female, then you're always getting some little bit of interaction there, whereas... When you're doing a selfing on a one-to-one, I mean, it's not the same, is it?

1:45:12Ryan Dank AfWell, theoretically it would be the same. I guess the difference with the male-female route would be that you'd have...

1:45:20SpeakerPossibly different genes in the male and female.

1:45:23Ryan Dank AfYou'd have the Y chromosome, but the whole point is that one-to-one sibling crosses for six generations, I mean, that's damn severe inbreeding. It's pretty much equivalent to selfing.

1:45:35SpeakerI would say it's pretty close, but I would think that selfing is worse, but maybe that's because when we got past the third or fourth generation, we couldn't go any further selfing.

1:45:46Ryan Dank AfYeah. And that could be maternal effects, too. That could be a couple of different things.

1:45:53Ryan Dank AfYeah. It sure is a faster way to reach the goal, though, selfing.

1:45:58BubblemanSometimes the question in chat, they've asked it a bunch of times, What happens to cannabis if I let it grow wild for a few years? Would the genetic line break down assuming it was fire?

1:46:09Ryan Dank AfIt depends on a whole bunch of things. Really, like, what did you plant? A clone? Did you plant a hundred seeds? Did you plant a thousand seeds? Were those seeds from a true breeding variety? Were they from a hemp variety? Were they from a hybrid variety? You know, it's like, there's no one rule to answer that whole question.

1:46:26SpeakerBasically, I think Chimera would agree that For high THC levels and high terpene levels and what you're looking for, it takes man to maintain it. It will not be maintained by nature. But within a few years, you can't see how far it will drift astray.

1:46:44Ryan Dank AfIt depends. See, I don't know if I agree with that. I don't know if I agree with that.

1:46:49SpeakerYou might lose THC levels, but if you're in a closed... Lots of resin and things like that, and nature doesn't.

1:47:00Ryan Dank AfYeah, it really depends on the starting material. If you started with elite seed from a closed pool and you prevented outside pollination...

1:47:10SpeakerIt would take a lot longer to drift away, but it's still going to. Without the hand of man to... Here, let's reverse it the other way for a second. What do you think man found... Do you think he found varieties before without the hand of man?

1:47:29Ryan Dank AfNo, I hear what you're saying. I agree with the premise of what you're saying, but my point is that if you're preventing pollination from outside sources contaminating your pool, then it's going to take a hell of a lot longer to evolve.

1:47:44SpeakerAbsolutely true.

1:47:46Ryan Dank AfAnd I think if you're growing, you know, for example, in Europe or maybe even in Asia where there's going to definitely be contamination from Other populations that it would devolve rather quickly. So, how isolated is the variety?

1:48:02SpeakerLike, Chimera, do you think hemp growing is going to start to affect cannabis production because of cross-pollination because that is particularly always an outdoor affair? Like, how far downwind do you have to be from a

1:48:18Ryan Dank AfIt's impossible to say that, but I'll tell you this, it already is affecting it. There's a user here, Pangia, who, he's in the prairies and he has medical licenses and they were growing a greenhouse that was not, you know, it was not filtered air intake and they kept finding seeds in all their sweet skunks. And he happened to be driving down the road some distance from where he is in the prairies and came across like a 640 acre hemp field.

1:48:51SpeakerAnd so his MMAR license, all of his MMAR cannabis is getting... Basically, if you're within 10 miles of the downwind, you could be in trouble.

1:49:01Ryan Dank AfYeah. There's actually regulation...

1:49:04SpeakerIt could go a little bit further.

1:49:06Ryan Dank AfYeah. There's... There's regulations about that in Canada for hemp seed production to maintain purity of your line. You have to be like five miles isolated from any other crops.

1:49:19SpeakerFor seed production for the elite lines.

1:49:22Ryan Dank AfYeah.

1:49:23SpeakerYeah, yeah. Now that makes sense. We published articles about it too in the Journal of the International Hemp Association where we talked about the specifics. Distances that are required and for different varieties whether they're monoecious or dioecious or whatever.

1:49:41Ryan Dank AfRight, and that's one of the issues about the Vavilov collection is they went through this whole thing years ago before you guys started helping them out, right?

1:49:49SpeakerAnd they didn't obey the rules quite as properly.

1:49:52Ryan Dank AfYeah.

1:49:53SpeakerAbsolutely true. Are we going to be in the same situation with even just, throw hemp out the window, just straight cannabis production when the possibility of producing for a shit ton of THC just for some, you know, tincture line, if it actually goes into the preventative market, production of cannabis is going to potentially outshoot. Like, I just see where, like, holy shit, man, it's like bees all over again, where you start to become spaced and you move and you find out you can't move anything.

1:50:23Ryan Dank AfIt's money. It always comes back down to money. So as soon as Canopy Growth Corp or whatever big company is producing greenhouses full of cannabis and it's getting contaminated by some hemp farmer that's producing less, they'll either buy them off or they'll lobby the government and they'll make it right for them. It's big business always wins.

1:50:43SpeakerAlso, too, I mean, think about it, Chimera. I was talking with Breeders Steve today and Early, early this morning, which was actually yesterday for you guys, but he told me he had a mutation. He had a couple clones. He's lost them now, but he's going to look. And it didn't make white hairs.

1:51:10Ryan Dank AfYeah, that's possible. It's called a genus.

1:51:13SpeakerSo just think if your bud formation is normal, you've got great flower-to-leaf ratio, but there's no white hairs.

1:51:24Ryan Dank AfThis is very common in other plants. They have it in, if you look up Arabidol.

1:51:29SpeakerI've never seen it. Have you?

1:51:31Ryan Dank AfSorry?

1:51:32SpeakerYou seen it? I've never had. I've grown millions of plants.

1:51:36Ryan Dank AfNo, because it's a recessive condition, and it's like that CBG, defunct CBG. It's only going to come around every once in a while when you get two copies of the non-functional gene. So it's going to be really rare, but you can definitely induce it. This would be something that you could do through EMS screening.

1:51:55SpeakerIt's actually quite common.

1:51:56Ryan Dank AfI mean, if you look at Arabidopsis thaliana, which is the model research plant for genetics and plants, They have a line called Agamas.

1:52:04SpeakerSteve is looking for it again, so he can try to grab it. What I want to do, of course, is give it to Philo so we can understand the genes involved in it and try to encourage maybe other people to use this. I mean, this could be of incredible value to people who want to produce some Simeon on a large scale in the middle of... Lots of males.

1:52:31Ryan Dank AfIt might cause some other problems. Me too. I'd like to see it.

1:52:38SpeakerNothing ventured, nothing gained.

1:52:43Ryan Dank AfYeah. I mean, I don't know. In public, I'm not going to say anything about it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

1:52:53SpeakerWell, we both know Whether or not it's a reality or not. But, yeah. Like you say, it's common in flowering plants, and it must occur as a mutation.

1:53:08Ryan Dank AfIt's not common, but there are research lines that have the trait. And, of course, you can do anything like that. So it's just screening. It's just a technique like EMS mutagenesis. You use EMS, spray it on a million or a thousand seeds, grow them out, let them self. You'll find it. And even with targeting approaches like that tilling approach that I think... Yeah, no, no, no, exactly.

1:53:33SpeakerAnd what I was thinking was once you had identified it, then it would be relatively easy to screen. What you could probably do is with the right markers is... Screen, not 1,000, but maybe 10,000 or even 20 or 50 or 100,000 plants at a time. And if any one of them has that marker in it, then you go back and you screen them individually.

1:54:03Ryan Dank AfExactly.

1:54:04SpeakerIt's been really fast and easy to quite literally screen millions of seedlings.

1:54:11Ryan Dank AfSo I say if Steve's got that plant or those seeds, he should make it available to one of the sequence.

1:54:16SpeakerHe said he saw it in the past and he lost it and he's going to try to suss it out and see if he can find any more seeds. Because he says when he grew it, about a quarter of the seeds made that out of it.

1:54:30Ryan Dank AfYeah, oh, Dave, you know how I feel about this stuff.

1:54:33SpeakerNo, no, no, no, I understand. I was just excited because you know how hard I worked for a sterile tri-toid plan, but yeah.

1:54:46Ryan Dank AfAny trait is possible to knock out. You can take any trait on the plant and destroy it. You can make a leaf that has, instead of having serrated edges, it has rounded edges. You can make a plant that has no pistils. You can make a plant that has no resin glands.

1:54:59SpeakerI've definitely seen all those.

1:55:03Ryan Dank AfBut the point is that it all happens, there's a genetic basis for all of that. It's a gene that doesn't work. And you can target genes with EMS, you can target genes with nuclear radiation, you can target genes with bacteria, you can do a whole bunch of stuff. It's just, have we got there? And, you know, it's like we've seen the CBG, this non-functional CBD allele that leads to the production of CBG.

1:55:31Ryan Dank AfIt's just a mutation in a gene, and I guarantee you... That's the one in USO 31? That's right. But I guarantee you, every gene that we look for, if you look through a whole population at that one gene, just like it happens in humans, you'll find mutations in some individual. And if you then use those individuals to breed, you can start creating new chemotypes and phenotypes based on the mutant gene.

1:55:56Ryan Dank AfThis is not any kind of novel approach to plant breeding. This is the way it's done, you know?

1:56:02SpeakerNo, it's just that nobody ever poked, really until we started, and now GW Pharmaceuticals and several other large companies, yourself, people were not using analytical analysis to assist breathing, much less DNA assistive breathing. Now it's all changing, and I know it.

1:56:28Ryan Dank AfYeah, it's great, and it's great, because we're all going to start to see things, but it's like You know, I've been hearing that story for 15 years and, you know, we're no closer. So it's like, let's all stop talking and start doing, you know.

1:56:43SpeakerWell, no, it's true that, for example, the cannabis genome was sequenced first by McKinnon and then by Page. And truth of the matter was, both of them announced it before they had assembled it.

1:57:02Ryan Dank AfRight.

1:57:03SpeakerSo sequencing is pretty much useless. Even assembling it is pretty much useless until you start identifying what the hell's going on.

1:57:15Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, that's what I said a few episodes ago. It's just a bunch of data. It's just a bunch of A, G, T's and C's. You have to tie the variation in the genome to traits so that you know, oh, hey, this SNP or this You know, this mutation that we can identify here is responsible for this phenotype or this chemotype. And when that happens, then we can start using the, we can start breeding.

1:57:40Ryan Dank AfBut until that happens, it's just a bunch of data that we can do stuff like relationship studies, which is interesting, but it's not going to help us as breeders.

1:57:51SpeakerWell, it might a little bit. You might be able to say that Well, this has this and this has that, and if they both are in there, it produces what I like, and so therefore maybe I need to go back and look at the original populations on both sides. I mean, evolution and relationships could be of assistance, but not directly.

1:58:17Ryan Dank AfYeah, I still think we need to tie the data to it. I mean, you can say... Oh, this is in the blue dream, and we know the blue dream has high pinene or high myrcene, and then you can go and look back from that way, but it still is. Without the chemotype data, it doesn't do much. You know, I'm really focused on the chemotype data these days.

1:58:32SpeakerIt's like I'm so... No, you actually need the whole ball of wax, you know, which really wasn't possible until probably the last five years. Yeah. So, you know, because that's when they sequenced the page group and the mechanical group did their work.

1:58:51Ryan Dank AfYeah, 2011, right?

1:58:55SpeakerYep.

1:58:56Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, I'm interested to see what they're going to do. I'm going to go have a meeting with John when I get back and see what he's up to. Yeah, McKernan's always chunking away at interesting things. I think they're all trying to monetize. They're trying to figure out how to get some money back after all this money that they spent. I noticed Philo's reposted their pricing on the XY test.

1:59:18SpeakerWhen Kevin was over here in 2011, they were already thinking that they were going to get all the coffee shops in Amsterdam to want to get their step sequence. What? I tried to explain, no, coffee shops, that's not going to increase sales. Now, some of the, one or two of the bigger shops might do it just for the novelty of doing it, but it's, you know, what they want to do is increase sales.

1:59:53Ryan Dank AfYeah. Well, they got to monetize it. You know, it's like when you have a company that starts putting money into your company and saying, well, we're going to invest, you know, $10 million or $5 million or whatever it is and give you this R&D budget to go and figure a bunch of stuff out. The question always has to be is how does that money come back out?

2:00:10Ryan Dank AfYou know, he's an investor. He's not a gifter. He's an investor. He wants his money back.

2:00:16SpeakerRight. How it creates a platform where you can shoot rubber bands. Kevin McKenna is probably the brightest of the DNA superstars. But at the same time, yeah, I mean... Just because you're first doesn't mean that you're going to be the leader in the industry.

2:00:35Ryan Dank AfI mean, mostly... Kevin, he's literally a genius. I think the dude is great.

2:00:41SpeakerNo, no, I understand the difference.

2:00:43Ryan Dank AfBut Mowgli and John are also incredibly bright individuals. I just, it's again, it's like a lot of times, you know, these guys are professors. They come from academia.

2:00:53SpeakerAnd it's like, you know, it's not always... That's why they need people like me and Rob. And maybe you, I hope you help us there with Mowgli at Vilos. But I want the work to be done by somebody.

2:01:13Ryan Dank AfWell, there's, you know, and then there's the research end of it, but again, on this commercial end of it, like, I saw at first when I talked to them it was going to be five bucks for a sex test, and that's a number that's workable for a lot of people. But I went on their website the other day, and it's like even in district, if you're in Oregon, it's like 60 bucks for four tests.

2:01:34Ryan Dank AfThat's more expensive than the seeds, dude. $15 a test.

2:01:39SpeakerSo who's going to pay? You know what I thought would be really interesting? If we would compare the select tests that are available. In other words, there's probably five or six or maybe even ten different groups who are offering it.

2:02:01SpeakerWhat's the name? Steve Peel has one.

2:02:07SpeakerPhilos has one.

2:02:09Ryan Dank AfYeah, Philos. I don't know about... I'm not sure about Steve Hill's method. I know a lot of these guys are...

2:02:15SpeakerThey have a kit. They have a kit. What I'm talking about is getting everybody's kit and understanding how do they work. My biggest concern about all these sex tests are... I believe they can tell most males and females. I believe that. But I don't think they can tell intersex plants.

2:02:34Ryan Dank AfNo, they won't be able to. No, that'll be a second.

2:02:36SpeakerThey're going to call them females.

2:02:38Ryan Dank AfYeah. No, that definitely won't happen. Anne-Michelle Faux, the lady that did her work in Belgium, in the University of Belgium, that Catholic university there, I sent all her papers to Rob, but I think I sent them to you. I can send them to you if not.

2:02:54SpeakerI've got them.

2:02:55Ryan Dank AfYeah, she, you know, she essentially looked at those intersex plants and the minutious hemp varieties, and she looked for that Mad C male-associated DNA marker in those female plants, and none of them have it. And the reason none of them have it is because they're all female.

2:03:11SpeakerSo that means if you have intersex plants, then everybody's sex testing, does that include Kevin's, will show it up as female? Yeah.

2:03:22Ryan Dank AfYeah, no, they're all using modifications of this Mad C sequence, these, you know, Mad C. So Kevin's also showing up as female, even if it's intersex. It should, yeah. Because they're separate traits. Intersexuality is not gender.

2:03:41SpeakerI think there's two versions. I think there's one that's truly genetically inherited, and I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect so. And then I think there's other ones where it's just influencing all kinds of other things. Too hot, too weird a photo, period, all those kinds of issues.

2:04:01Ryan Dank AfEverybody gets way too excited about this whole thing, and I think myself, I'm going to write a paper on it, but I think it's very basic the way it's happening. I think the genomics will bear this out. There's five major hormones in plants, okay? Cytokinins, abscisic acid, ethylene, gibberellin.

2:04:23SpeakerI understand. So what you're basically saying is that all that there is is the inheritance to tip those.

2:04:31Ryan Dank AfYeah. We know that if we play with two of those pathways, we get intersex plants, right? Gibberellins and ethylene.

2:04:40Ryan Dank AfThere's lots of things in plants that if you stress a plant out, it changes ethylene. It's known. So it's like when you're stressing a plant, you're essentially flipping that switch that influences...

2:04:55SpeakerI would agree with the vast majority of these, Chimera, but I have my doubts. I think there's some that are truly genetically determined. And just like I think there's some that no matter how you fuck with them environmentally and stress them, you can't make them trip.

2:05:13Ryan Dank AfNo, I agree with you, but I bet you anything it's going to end up being mutations in those same genes.

2:05:18SpeakerMaybe you're right. I'll be happy when we find out.

2:05:22Ryan Dank AfYeah.

2:05:23SpeakerSomebody else must have something important. I don't want to hog it. Everyone's enjoying the conversation.

2:05:29BubblemanIt's not hogging anything.

2:05:32SpeakerAs far as I'm concerned, the future of cannabis is molecular biology and terpenes. Those are the two you should get your bandwagon on. Yeah. And chemistry. Come on, man. What the fuck? Oh, I guess we'll need some of you guys around. Yeah, we'll need some of you guys around. Chemistry's gone. As long as you're good smokers.

2:05:57Ryan Dank AfI actually have to say goodbye, guys. I'm at a hotel, and they're knocking on the door, and I've got to get back on the road and see some folks. So, happy Hash Church. You guys have a great day. Good seeing you. Thanks for coming in, Chimera. Nice seeing you, too. Have a good one, guys. Everybody, cheers.

2:06:13SpeakerBye-bye.

2:06:16BubblemanThat was pretty intense. Good conversation going on there for the last...

2:06:19SpeakerIt was great. You know, it's great having both you guys on. You know, Sam, thank you for joining us, and, you know, Chimera also is a real pleasure. I still, you know, miss having him. You know, some house guests you get and when they leave you really miss them because they're so intellectually stimulating and fun to talk to and he was definitely one of those people. Chimera and I don't agree 100%.

2:06:42SpeakerBut we have a lot of respect for each other's work, and we're also pretty good buds. I mean, when he's in Amsterdam, he drops by, and last time I was there, he actually arranged for me to come visit in California. So we're good friends. Yeah, I very much enjoyed his company, and I learned a lot sitting and talking with him. It's not shallow conversation at all. He's so well-read, and he's journal-researched, And he comes to his points with a lot of rationale that I really appreciate.

2:07:18SpeakerWhere's Rob? Not at my house today, but we'll see him soon. I think you know where he is, actually, but he's not with me, we'll just say. But he'll be around soon. Tried to get Mel Frank on today, but I haven't heard back from him.

2:07:39BubblemanGo, Tony.

2:07:40SpeakerI just wanted to shout out a few people that came by the booth yesterday and dropped off some samples.

2:07:50SpeakerI've been going through them and I think the intention here was for me to smoke them with you, Mark. So I'm smoking them on Hash Church and I probably should give a few shout outs to the people that Give donations to the... What are they? Are they dry sift? Are they water hash? Are they... What is they? Well, this one is a 120 whole plant fresh frozen platinum cookies from Icedow.

2:08:23SpeakerThese are some friends that they won the World Cup and some of their... Nice and greasy... They had like portable wine coolers. And they had this stuff on ice the whole time. It was like very, very, very clean heads. It was just in my jacket overnight. It wasn't very hot. But it did melt down into some really nice cookies, Ash. I smoked some of that while you guys were talking about genetics.

2:09:01SpeakerAnd also... I'll tell you another one that was good. These guys. I don't normally do this, but, you know, it's the cup time. They're presenting good stuff. All of them were very nice and respectful and big Hash Church fans.

2:09:18BubblemanIs that a DNA strain, strawberry banana?

2:09:21SpeakerThis is, yeah, I'm sure it is. I didn't get that. Yeah, strawberry banana flower rosin.

2:09:30BubblemanWow, I just hit some bubble hash from that strawberry banana. It is delicious.

2:09:34SpeakerCrazy. This is a nice flour rosin. The picture I posted was the butter, and this is more of like kind of pull and snap flour rosin. Real clean. What do you think of the name of, what is it, banana strawberry? Strawberry banana. Strawberry Banana. I mean, it sounds like it's an incense from 1966.

2:10:03BubblemanWell, it tastes like it's a fruit bowl from 2016.

2:10:06SpeakerI was just going to say that.

2:10:09BubblemanHoly shit, does it taste good. It literally is the first strain I've been hitting for a while now that, like, you don't even want to dip it in terps. It's literally terp-satiated.

2:10:22SpeakerYeah. Some strains are really, really high in that. So shout out to these guys.

2:11:00BubblemanWell, we'll see what's happening in 2016 in the world of cannabis. Seems like everything's getting cleaner.

2:11:10BubblemanWhat's that Sunset KB, Tony? Is that like a Sunset Sherbert?

2:11:17SpeakerSunset Sherbert by KB OG, they're two. That was the first time we actually ran two flowers at the same time to make one flower. One final terpene solution.

2:11:31Ryan Dank AfOh, God.

2:11:33SpeakerYeah, so that's a two-in-one.

2:11:38SpeakerI didn't want to do too much of that because at first you've got to get a feel for what the flowers would be like, and then when you start blending things together, sometimes you get really exotic flavors, and that one is like an OG with a

2:11:57SpeakerKind of a sour, sour dub, OG.

2:12:03SpeakerI don't know, it's got like a lot of like brown sugar to it.

2:12:08BubblemanSo is it Crockett that did the strawberry banana with DNA? I believe so. I believe that's where it came from. Definitely got to give them a shout out because that is delicious. Holy Moses.

2:12:22SpeakerYeah, man.

2:12:23BubblemanJust like that type of thing is a, You could just win cups with that. You could win cups. I think they have won cups with that. I bet they've won a lot of cups with that. That's a cup winner, let me tell you. Yeah. I get to get in my car and go get some later. I'm quite happy about it.

2:12:49SpeakerSo the new thing, oh yeah, so this is interesting. The new thing is people are walking around with squids. Flower rosin, okay? Or hash rosin that's been uncollected. So it's just kind of on a sheet. You get it folded over, right? And you get a bunch of these. And it's like the laziest man's processor you've ever seen. Because most of us, you know, you collect, you process, you build out, you do everything you can for presentation.

2:13:19SpeakerThey're just like, fuck it. You're pressing it right here. Here's your shit. We'll move the screen in the middle, and there you go. And there's...

2:13:29SpeakerAnd a guy yesterday gave me one as if it was like curtains. He's got stacks of them. He's like, man, I got this flower rosin, blah, blah, blah. And it's really, I mean, it's really good flower rosin. It's quality rosin. Right. You know? And I just thought it was funny. I've just seen that recently, so be prepared for it in Canada at some point. It's not already happening.

2:13:59BubblemanExcellent. I will be prepared. 1,033 people watching. It's been like over 1,000 people since about 20 or 30 minutes after 9 o'clock. We've got a big crew coming in early this Sunday for the Nolly. I think that there's been a fair amount of knowledge dropped today so far.

2:14:21SpeakerAnd who knows? There may be more to come. Mark Scaldone, did you see the post in the Hash Church group? I saw your post of you distilling away, but there's a new artist that produced a clear result with a slight pink tinge. He's going to get tested soon to find out what he's derived. Yeah, I did see that. That's that very ghost white stuff. No, that was Ghost White Rosin that showed up right beside it, but it's totally clear, clear, like there's no yellow tint.

2:14:55SpeakerOh, right, right. It was distillate. Yeah, yeah. So is that a distillate? Yeah, and the final, the thing is, it's about, the question was more, the viscosity seems to change as the purity goes up, but there are other people that go, no, if it's really pure, the viscosity should go down. I wanted to know what you thought about that, because the guy's holding it like a Jolly Rancher in his fingers now.

2:15:22SpeakerIt looks pretty dank. Yeah, you'd only assume that the viscosity would go up

2:15:32SpeakerSo you've seen that too because I've

2:16:00SpeakerBasically, I've come across this super clear, but it doesn't seem to be testing is super clear. It seems to carry over some, but because people are trained pretty much to texture and touchability is something that's valued in our industry. That's what Shatter's all about. So when it's marketed, it's marketed as basically the preferred medical product of a higher quality. That's kind of why this dichotomy between the viscosity, I'm like, I don't know, it seems like a filler agent.

2:16:29SpeakerWhy is it, if it's all decarboxylated, why is it so solid? Well, I've had viscosity changes of my own, because terpenes would also make it runny. So that's the question. Yeah, exactly. That's what I suspect. And also, terpenes aren't always oxidatively stable, so sometimes what might come out of the distillation rig as completely clear is going to start to yellow with time, because these things, when they're exposed to air, will start to yellow.

2:16:58SpeakerBut if you took your very, very snow-white... THCA and you decarb it, does it make a very clear THCA? I wasn't ready. I thought about it and I'm like, what if I melted it? And I'm like, don't do it. I'm like, what if I melted it? No, man, do it. For the sake of the experiment, it would be really cool to see if that discolors at all.

2:17:25SpeakerAnd just like the guy who posted the picture of the THCA, if you guys are going to post Nice pictures. Please tell us what the melting point is. So remember, praise the Lord and take a melting point. Please. Do you want a thermocouple melting point? Because an IR gun, like I tried the IR gun way and I'm like, I don't trust this. It keeps bouncing off the white and reflecting upwards and then hitting the nail nail.

2:17:51SpeakerBut will a thermocouple do? Because I've never basically done it. Yeah, it depends on how tight your thermocouple is with actual reality. And so, yeah, you'll find that the temperature setting isn't always truly what the temperature is. It's always good to have an independent thermometer or something like that. In a different subject, like, now comes the question of this new craze of crystallizing things that are decarboxylated.

2:18:19SpeakerI clearly don't do it, or don't do it yet, but... What are the types of processes that people could be reading in patents that they're experimenting with now? When does it go too far copying what you read in a patent and grabbing some hexane, and when is it like for you? I assume if you grabbed hexane and went that route, it would be a walk in the park.

2:18:40SpeakerI'm not versed in the chemical side of things when people do it. What would you have to say? If you're doing extraction, you're using the solvent, but then basically you strip the solvent, and what you're left with there is the... You can take that crude isolate, which is what you would vacuum distill when you're going to purify it. You can take that crude isolate, too, which is thick and syrupy and has a lot of polar and unwanted compounds.

2:19:05SpeakerYou could also column chromatograph it. I think that's what, if you watch the movie Mishul and the Scientist, I think that's what they used, ultimately, was column chromatography, just fractionating compounds over and over and over again.

2:19:23SpeakerIn the 1964 paper, what he did was he made, like we said last week, that urethane derivative by reacting it with 3,5-dinitrophenylisocyanate, which makes a very highly crystalline material, which was a very common practice back in the day to make that derivative and to report the melting point. Then what he did is he just used base to hydrolyze that and distilled that. You know, most of those distillations are, again, it's just a purification process where you're purifying it by taking advantage of the single boiling point of a pure compound.

2:20:02SpeakerAnd so you could measure its boiling point as it's distilling, which is what we did there. And we showed that, again, you get a good vacuum. You can basically distill that stuff at a pretty decent temperature and not have to heat it up too much. I think that's the real problem is when you heat it up and when there's air in there, if you could somehow switch out the air with nitrogen so when you heat up the compounds and you're heating things to where they would normally decompose in the presence of air, if the nitrogen's replacing the air, you're not going to see some of those color-forming reactions.

2:20:39SpeakerSo for the acid version, is there a time where basically I look at shatter, I look at how many times butane or whatever else is being used is trapped in shatter, then I look at a crystalline like that and I'm like how many times are people ending up with things like hexane in their teeth that they don't know about or the public's not considering being tested. For the routes to the crystalline acid, how many of them are smokable versus not smokable when you see a product?

2:21:05SpeakerBecause you would consume it solvent-free, but there's no indication at all. Dr. Hexane is a higher boiler than butane, obviously. You've got two more carbons in the chain, and there's opportunities for branched isomers, your cyclohexane is actually a really good solvent to use. But all those hexane solvents, you've got to remember that when they de-fat soybean right now, what they use is they use hexane, so they crush soybeans and then Hexane, petrochemical derived hexane is used to basically extract fat from soybean to leave you with soy flour and the soybean oil.

2:21:41SpeakerAnd then the hexane is just distilled off and recycled. So in the process of defatting, they do use hexane. And that is basically a food grade material that ends up in French fryers and all kinds of different food applications for human consumption. So, hexane does have the bad notion that it's a neurotoxin, too, and some of, I think, the branched isomers are worse. And, again, I think it's one of those things that, like terpenes, it starts getting into membranes and starts increasing the fluidity and starts getting stuff in the cells that shouldn't be going in.

2:22:21SpeakerBut you should probably not regularly use hexane unless it's the ultra, ultra purified material for food-grade use. This is kind of freak out, dude, because hexane is a, like it shows up as a kind of naphtha soup, where depending on where it's made and when it was made, generically if it's not research grade, and now there's the craze that everything is crystal, all the CBD is supposed to be coming in crystal, and I'm like, I don't know what the fuck they're doing, but if this is like Chinese hexane, fuck yourself.

2:22:53SpeakerIt's the 99% of what we know as hexane, it's that 1% of that other shit that could be the Mystery Oil type components that stay behind in your resin that you want to make sure that you have your testing down to where you can test for residuals there. Petroleum Ether might be a better solvent to use because Petroleum Ether typically has the lighter fractions, but again, a dog's breakfast is shit in there.

2:23:22SpeakerFrom C4, C5, C6, there's all kinds of shit in there. So if people are being presented with crystals, they should definitely, like will the general, even the general parts per million cast of like nine solvents, will it even come up with the type of shit that they're using to get these crystals? Like I've never seen petroleum ether on a solvent list. They're normally looking for the shit that makes normal BHO.

2:23:45SpeakerWell, it depends how you analyze that material. So if it's crystalline, I mean, theoretically, if it's like pure enough to actually be crystalline THCA, you could actually send it for carbon and hydrogen analysis to basically measure the amount of carbon and hydrogen that you get on combusting the compound and see if the theoretical amount correlates to what the crystal structure is to see if it's really pure.

2:24:14SpeakerSo if it's really pure and you know the molecular formula of the THCA, which we know because we can draw the structure, we know that it has so many carbon atoms. Well, so many carbon atoms will basically be so much percentage carbon, and so when that molecule is burned, when you analyze the off-gas and you actually count the amount of CO and CO2 that's given off from that, you can determine Thank you so much for joining us.

2:25:06SpeakerYeah, I just, with the amount of, everyone wants to smoke everything that they're presented, I just find there's a new rec culture in which these are people who don't even know what a parts per million test is, and they just want a piece of whatever's hot, and everyone's just googling patents like their arm is broken, and then running to the lab to get a result, and in among that is guys who are kicking ass and doing unique things, so it's really confusing.

2:25:30SpeakerWell, that's why I, That's why Horatio, it's really important to get the word out to, if you do get a crystalline product and you think it's crystalline THCA, take a melting point. The melting point is a very, very good indicator for the degree of purity and the closer it is to I think the literature melting point for THCA is between 70 and 75 degrees centigrade. So there's a period at which you could melt THCA where it will not decarb because it won't really exclusively start decarbing until it's above 100 degrees.

2:26:08SpeakerNow again, you got to remember that decarb is happening all the time, all the time. It's kind of like a leaky tank. So even at room temperature, de-carb is happening. When you cure your weed, de-carb is happening. DeCarb is always happening. When you heat it up, it just accelerates the hole in the tank. It just accelerates how much stuff basically goes over to DeCarb. When you're heating it up, again, I've always used the analogy, you're pushing it up a hill, you're pushing it up a roller coaster, and when you get to a certain point, it lands at a different spot because, again, nature is basically disassociating two molecules, the THC molecule from carbon dioxide, and that's an irreversible reaction.

2:26:52SpeakerYou can't just combine CO2 with THC and make it go back to THCA. Once that happens, and it has entropy driving it, because you know in the universe, the universe is expanding, and so entropy wants molecules to split into pieces. And so when THCA is heated up and it decarbs, it has an entropic energy favoring Thank you for joining us.

2:27:33SpeakerI will melt but not, yes, I will melt but not decarb the last of my THCA so that I can make a clear piece of glass for you. See if you can get it to recrystallize because if you melt your THCA, theoretically, you haven't really, you may have decarb it a little bit, but as you cool it back down, See if you can get that to recrystallize and then see where the temperature is that it melts at again.

2:27:58SpeakerBecause as you go through that cycle back and forth, you're going to be generating more THC every time. And the more THC you generate, the more likely it's going to gum up your crystallization and not be a nice crystalline solid like it was. That's kind of, I mean, because when I'm not, I just, you pretty much use the powder test to know where I stand. If that stuff starts to clump up, we've got a problem.

2:28:23SpeakerIt's kind of my decarboxylation test. If it goos on me, it's no good. That's right, yep. Alright, well, let's let someone else get in on this chat. It got super technical the way I like it. I'm sure a lot of tech heads are pumped just because there are so many things that everyone's just on Instagram marketing, ooh la la, ooh ooh ooh, and you get this little window and you click buy pretty much to a brand.

2:28:51SpeakerSo giving people criteria like just even the temperature, it should melt at 70 to 75. I'll do it. I'll try to get it to melt without decarbing and I'll post a picture of some glass. Yeah, so I think the people who are out there who are basically making crystalline THCA, the two temperatures that we want to know are the temperature at which it melts and then the temperature at which it starts to bubble.

2:29:14SpeakerSo that's basically the decarb temp. And again, the more People who are out there and more people post the results on social media, it's kind of like we're doing science by consensus here, which is kind of pretty cool. It's a cool aspect of Hash Church, Mark, is that we're doing science in kind of like a social media way and we're all going to see the results. It's not like somebody could hoard the results or hide the results because it's all in a very, very public kind of way.

2:29:43SpeakerThat's kind of cool.

2:29:45BubblemanAbsolutely. Yeah, it's transparent. I love it. And it's all recorded and sitting on the Google servers as well as my hard drives because I've ripped them off of, peeled them off of YouTube as well. Just because this is the only place they're filmed. I don't film this any other way. It goes on live through our web cameras. It records onto YouTube. And then, you know, in my opinion, the best way to preserve them for 100% sure is to download them off of YouTube.

2:30:14BubblemanMake sure the information is forever preserved. Thanks YouTube for having this space for everyone to do these things. It is pretty incredible.

2:30:23SpeakerWell, and it's pretty cool, Mark, that Facebook lets us keep a Hash Church page that we can dump information and links and, you know, like Sam sends papers and stuff and when we find stuff out on the internet, it's just, it's a great resource to go to and I know a lot of people rely on a lot of the information that we post up there.

2:30:44BubblemanYeah, it's good to have it. It's good to have these people. I mean, my goodness, there's probably potentially a thousand people in this chat room right now. That is a lot of people to have their ear. It's quite an incredible experience, really. So, once again, everybody for listening. I hope that your hash is as melty as mine.

2:31:03SpeakerI hope you're all voting for Bernie Sanders come presidential election time. The guy who's going to legalize the nugget. Come on, people. We've got to use that. Did you guys all see that headline that there are no co-sponsors for his bill? I know. That's really sad, isn't it? I posted a comment that it's odd that we have smart phones and stupid politicians. Stupid politicians, yeah. I'm so annoyed to it.

2:31:28SpeakerAnd I think that everybody all over the world should start demanding more from these guys because, you know, 30 years ago, they didn't have access to the material and they were brought through a school system that didn't teach us hemp And they were just as much victimized by the lack of education we had as we were. But now that they're walking around with Wikipedia and Google and access to the world's information and they can just sit down for a few minutes and read about cannabis, it's really obnoxious that they're taking these hardline positions against something so beneficial and in all honesty harmless to society.

2:32:03SpeakerIt annoys the fuck out of me. I mean, Especially in America. I mean, especially with everything going on. I think that we should stop tolerating this huge invasion of people growing flowers. You know, we don't do the same thing with people hoarding weapons. We don't sit outside gun stores and follow these fucking nuts home when they buy a dozen fucking assault rifles. But some guy buys nutrients at his fucking local hydroponic store and he's criminally fucking followed by cops looking to take them down for fucking being a florist growing flowers.

2:32:36SpeakerI think it's so fucked up, and I think that we really got to start voting these asshole politicians out of office that don't support change. I seriously, sincerely do. Well, let's start with Bernie. I mean, really, we should start with this election cycle right now. There's no better time than now to fucking get things going. And so where are all the senators, like the ones who supported that weak act that they tried to roll out last year, careers, right, where they wanted to put it on Schedule 2?

2:33:04SpeakerWe don't want Schedule 2. Schedule 2 is not good. Not good for patients, not good for growers, not good for consumers. Schedule 2. I honestly think it should be grandfathered in. It should be descheduled. Where's tobacco in the schedule? It's not. And we all know how harmful and addictive it is, so let's stop pretending cannabis is anything like tobacco. But seriously, we should start treating it. I mean, I don't understand the hypocrisy and bigotry that we as society still allow to exist around cannabis.

2:33:35SpeakerBecause that's really all it is. Tobacco was entrenched in the halls of Congress before the halls of Congress existed. This nation grew up in tobacco. Well, the nation grew up in hemp. I mean, realiztically, we didn't know tobacco when we came from Europe over. I mean, that was the one plant that Columbus found that he did not know existed in Europe, and the other plant that he couldn't find was the plant that was responsible for their sails, their ropes, their ringings, their paints, their maps, their Bibles, their fucking oil in their lamps, and it was cannabis.

2:34:08SpeakerCannabis was directly responsible for the cultural evolution of humanity when you look at paper and fabrics and the things that it gave us that we still use as staples in our communication and our everyday beings today. And tobacco, I hate to say it, but it's a speck of dust on humanity's ass in comparison to what cannabis has done for society, I think, as a whole.

2:34:39BubblemanHard to disagree with that. Hard to disagree with that.

2:34:43SpeakerA lot of movies and classic movies were made with people smoking cigarettes, though.

2:34:50BubblemanOh, yeah. Specifically for the reason to promote the cigarette agenda.

2:34:56SpeakerIn the last 100 years, absolutely. They had the money and they marketed it so well. I mean, we're all victims of 20th century marketing. There's no question about it. And I don't mean it as like, oh, poor us, but it's just reality. If you grew up in the 20th century, you were bombarded with very crafty ways of making you think. I mean, it was a realization for me when I realized that the National Dairy Council was really the marketing arm of Dairy Research Incorporated, and they take their tax-deductible money, and they try to convince us all that we need to suck on the udders of cows.

2:35:32BubblemanAh, the others of cows, the others of cows.

2:35:36SpeakerThe only species that does it. Yeah, but they also taught us that cows are two of the four food groups. I know, everything we needed to know to consume their products and become round little fucking Midwesterners.

2:35:50BubblemanWell, their agenda has failed in India.

2:35:56SpeakerYou know, it's not so much hating on the dairy industry. It's hating on the corporate manipulation that was brought to us as fucking legitimate education that we all grew up with. That's what I think is crap. And, you know, and maybe that's why I went veg because it was more of like a rage against the machine moment where I was like, fuck you, I won't do what you tell me because I just didn't want to grow up thinking I was indoctrinated and not thinking for myself.

2:36:20SpeakerExcuse me. I didn't mean to do that, Todd. You can interrupt me anytime, Sam. No, but I didn't make it. I was trying to figure out why my little thing had a microphone crossed out. Now I figured it out. Well, it's nice having this cross-conversation going on. And it's nice having you on with us, Sam. Hey, Sam, what are you smoking on right now? Oh, that's what I was going to show you.

2:36:52SpeakerYeah, it's...

2:36:58SpeakerLet me see. Here we go. Is that right? Yeah, that looks right.

2:37:07SpeakerIt's water hash from Tang from the DNA guys. You mean bubble hash? No, I didn't make it. I'm just joking. Yeah. I wish you could smell it.

2:37:29BubblemanWell, I could jump on a plane tomorrow, but it looks like you only have a day's worth there.

2:37:33SpeakerI don't know if they'll let riffraff like you in Europe, man.

2:37:41BubblemanAh, well, it happens. I can get in. I can get in.

2:37:52BubblemanWell, it's kind of weird that the Cannabis Cup was cancelled for the whole day. Is that the case or just till like noon or one?

2:38:00SpeakerWell, it's going to be coming at one it looks like, but if you look at radar, man, they got a lot coming through. What is the reason? It's just a storm front moving through California. It just came in south of the Bay Area, went down, hitting central and southern California. Possibly 70 mile an hour winds, so I mean I could see why with tents and people out there.

2:38:26SpeakerYeah, and those are the storm tracks going right through it. Yeah, I woke up to basically a frantic crew going, we can't go to the Cup, we're going to get blown out, it's snowing if we go north, we can't leave, we can't do anything. Like it was this whole like catastrophic can't of everything. I go, sounds perfect. I'm going to set up the mothership and smoke four hours.

2:38:57SpeakerIronically, it's true. You know, I used to live in the mountains above it in 99. And to get out of there, you've got to go over mountains that are really, really high.

2:39:10BubblemanThere's been worse places to get stuck though, and exactly, I'm picturing all them, A, they don't have a mothership, B, no one gave them a bunch of nice extracts yesterday.

2:39:20SpeakerThese are all aspects of...

2:39:27BubblemanThe story that I picked up on right away. Tony has the advantage. I would say the same thing. That's amazing. Didn't it happen maybe one time in Jamaica where we didn't have to do what we thought we had to do and we got to just sit and smoke? Man, of course that's like an ideal day.

2:39:46SpeakerIt's going on for two weekends, isn't it? Isn't it this weekend and next weekend? Yep. Exactly. Isn't that odd? I mean, isn't it normally only one weekend?

2:39:57BubblemanHigh Times Cannabis Cup? I mean, to me, the Cannabis Cup was always a five-day event, and it was in Amsterdam. I think that the U.S. ones are very different. They're like two- and three-day events, but I've never heard of one being two weekends in a row. That is odd to me as well. Are they always three days, Todd? That's just a money grab thing, you think?

2:40:21SpeakerListen, they're expanding on the whole idea. When the Cannabis Cup started in Amsterdam, it was like a week-long plus event that was multiple visits to coffee shops. You got a map of the city. You spent the whole time exploring Amsterdam and meeting different people that were participating. Then we would have centralized events at the Milk Veg and also at the place called the Pax Party House the first three years in a row that was like the small little mini expo where we would meet and smoke and have like small booths and That was the beginning of the Cannabis Cup, and it's just evolved.

2:40:54SpeakerI think it's organically grown into a bigger event, and as it's come into America, it has had to exist in parking lots because businesses wouldn't let us in to smoke, and they won't treat us like we're an alcohol event. So they really exile us to... Right now, San Bernardino parking lot is probably the best place or the most comfortable place in the country to throw a cannabis event, which is highly...

2:41:20SpeakerRemarkable because they're one of the most conservative Republican counties in California. So it really shows that they are cashing in on the opportunity of a peaceful stoner community coming in and making money because it's not just high times that's going on in that parking lot. It's Chalice. It's the 710 Fest. It's a whole host of other events that have booked that for the same basic event and You know, not the most hospitable place to do it, but politically, it's probably the most hospitable place to do it.

2:41:55SpeakerAnd the police are fine, and the security is okay, and people aren't getting busted? No, the police have taken a hands-off approach in San Bernardino. I've gone down there for multiple events. There's no extra cops hanging out trying to pull you over. I think that they've really taken almost like a... Look, the place is economically depressed, to put it bluntly, and it's not a very wealthy community.

2:42:18SpeakerI wouldn't leave your car parked in any of the hotels overnight comfortably with your motherships inside of them, or any other valuables for that matter. And I think they needed the money, and renting the place out five or six times a year to the tune of probably six plus figures per rental, and then the auxiliary income that comes around because you get 10,000 plus people per event showing up that are I hope that more municipalities follow their lead

2:43:10SpeakerThank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:43:40SpeakerI don't know how to put it. Very warm feeling, very nice. It's the way I hope more cannabis events will be in the future. The only criticism, Todd, is that the judging needs to take place over a couple of weeks. Maybe one week for the event, but the judging has to take place for a couple of weeks. A few years ago, I was invited to be a judge, but it was so...

2:44:18BubblemanWe lost him there. What's going on? What's going on? Did Todd freeze up?

2:44:22SpeakerWe're all freezed up.

2:44:25BubblemanWhat's going on, Space?

2:44:28SpeakerHe's fresh frozen.

2:44:33SpeakerI'd like to see a week or two of judging, then the event for a week. Well, I think they didn't expect that many samples to come out, and when you have that many samples that... Right, that's insane. One, I mean, dear God, the cost of testing all that on top of that, then, you know, you have to then divvy that up and get it into people's hands so they actually handle it, and then to then, if you were given that, which I've seen people...

2:45:01SpeakerThank you for watching.

2:45:22SpeakerThe most insane was actually the last night of the Legends when it was the 12th Legends. Mark was there and a lot of other People were there. And we had a few hours, like maybe three or four or whatever, to judge, I think it was 27 entries of water sift, dry sift, and it was quite literally insane. It was impossible. We did it. We did the best that could be done.

2:45:59SpeakerWe did the impossible. What? I said we did the impossible. Yeah, we did the impossible. But wouldn't you have preferred to have three days?

2:46:09BubblemanOh my God, I would have loved to have had, honestly, like more. It would be nice to experience different ones for wake and bakes. Right, exactly.

2:46:18SpeakerThat's what you really want to do. You want to smoke one from morning till noon to really understand it. Get a feel for the highs and the lows, literally.

2:46:31BubblemanA feels for the highs and the lows, exactly. Well, we're still rocking over a thousand viewers.

2:46:36SpeakerWe made the same mistake 20 years ago. We were doing fundraisers for Cannabis Action Network and things like that, and we were very fortunate to have people like Tony Serra's Law Offices and stuff like that would actually allow us to, we would put together the best that we could access in Northern California into a sampler's kit, and it would come with Like a one-hitter and a lighter, and then you've got a scoring sheet, but it was just in an afternoon, so we would give it out by 1, and by 4 o'clock we would want to see, you know, it was like 18 samples, so it was the same sort of thing.

2:47:12SpeakerIt was just way too much and not enough time for anybody to really, you know, do anything. We can do whatever we want. We got away with it, Mark, with the first few legends because there was only a few entries in our resin cup. But the last year of the legends, it was insane. The year before that was difficult. The year before that, you know, no big problem.

2:47:39SpeakerBut, I mean, what happened is a lot of people learned how to make really superior water and dry sift. And now Rosen, too. So it's just gotten, you know, the amount of quality that's out there has just gone through the roof. Yeah, back then I think all we had was, it was of the 18 samples, 16 of them were flowers, and Debbie was able, I think, to get like two water hashes, Debbie Goldsberry, with Ken, we used to do it all the time, and Yeah, it's a learning experience, but without a doubt, I agree, there's got to be more time.

2:48:21SpeakerWhat would you say? You say two weeks, but that kit had over 400 samples, Sam, so what is reasonable for something like that?

2:48:30Bubbleman400 samples? I don't know, like maybe a year? Right, 400 samples. My God! You just crush them all up and Make some sift.

2:48:47SpeakerI mean, that was, the flowers were, so I mean, you're talking that many samples getting tested, much less how do you go through that? Where do you even start? You start with a team of judges. Start somewhere.

2:48:59BubblemanYeah, it seems a little bit ridiculous. How would you even remember or be able to, it'd be an interesting system to try and

2:49:09SpeakerWe're doing flowers. What you have to do is first you go through and you give them a squeeze, you smell them, you look at them, and you do that to all 400 of them. Then what you do is you go back and the ones that you've given, you know, triple X or five X or whatever it is that you're doing, you go back and you actually try some of those.

2:49:35SpeakerBut first, you just go through and you try to thin it out so you can figure out what are the top 10, 20, 30, you know? And so you can start with those.

2:49:47BubblemanYeah, Debbie's in the chat right now.

2:49:49SpeakerShe said, with that many samples, you have to pass, fail on looks and smell, and then you end up missing some good highs because they... Oh, that's definitely a possibility, but some of us, unlike Debbie, have so much experience that just by looking and smelling at it, we already know what it's going to do.

2:50:11BubblemanWell... I guess either way, I don't test flowers myself. Nowadays, they wanted me to test a cup in Jamaica, and I was like, well, I guess I could just go and press the resin off of the buds that they want me to set.

2:50:26SpeakerAlso, too, I don't like judging cannabis because I'm skeptical whether or not it's been properly dried and cured and grown naturally. So that it naturally depletes itself of nutrients towards the end there. But even in a competition itself, all cannabis is subjective. What works for me doesn't work for you. Yes, we can. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, yeah. Taste is subjective. Smell is subjective. Absolutely. And effects desired are subjective.

2:51:03SpeakerDepending on mood, time, feeling, your own microbiology, I mean, all that. So to say one is the best, I always thought it's like holding, you know, one gold bar over another gold bar. They're both equally valuable and they're both good, but what makes one better than the other is what we need to decipher. Now, well, Mark and I pretty much agree. Purity is next to godliness. And by purity, I'm talking about resin head purity.

2:51:35SpeakerIt doesn't have to go to single proponent purity. If you have pure resin heads and you like that variety, then you're probably on the right path.

2:51:50BubblemanIt's definitely a great representation of what's there when you can get just the pure resin head.

2:52:10SpeakerDoesn't somebody have to say bong rip or something?

2:52:13BubblemanWell, that's D420K, but the guy's been working all day. He told me a while ago, he said, I'm going to come in and I'm going to say bong rip. And I was like, okay, I hope you do come in and say bong rip. It's a big part of house church.

2:52:27SpeakerOkay, so I'll do it for him. Bong rip. Not bad. Right on. Blow the smoke towards the hospital in Vancouver. I told Johnny we would do that. Yes, we were blowing the smoke in the hospital in Vancouver yesterday with Johnny.

2:52:47BubblemanP420K and I went down there and took him through the entire 18 flavor terpene profiles, just smelling them in the jars and

2:52:56SpeakerIs he using his homemade suppositories?

2:53:00BubblemanI didn't know about that, but I saw a whole slew of cannabinoid medicines that he had on his desk and in his little bag.

2:53:10SpeakerIn 1981, I was diagnosed as a diabetic and I was put into the hospital in a diabetic shock. And they put me in intensive care and I woke up and I was totally out of it. And so the next day they moved me into the regular room. And Rob Clark came to visit me. I'm in the hospital. And he comes into the room and he can't find me.

2:53:36SpeakerAnd he goes, hey, where are you? And I was behind the curtains with my head out the window smoking out a little Simsy pipe. And... Yeah, he brought me his first book, Marijuana Botany, not his thesis, which was the ecology of cannabis, but Marijuana Botany. And I actually edited it in the hospital there. Well, I added a little bit to it. I mean, Rob wrote the book.

2:54:15SpeakerThank you. I still remember smoking. And Rob couldn't find me. And he goes, oh, there you are. And I was behind the curtain smoking cannabis, blowing the smoke out the window. Blowing the smoke out the window.

2:54:30BubblemanAh, yes. I'll tell you, there's been some good places over the years. I found myself smoking cannabis, cannabis extracts, in various places all around the planet. And because of the severity in certain places, You really have to be safe.

2:54:47SpeakerI can remember the first time that I knew cannabis had medical use. And that was in 1971. I was in Morocco. And I had gone out to eat with my wife. And we had eaten A meal which obviously was something that they didn't wash their hands, the dishes, the food was old, something, because I got really violently, violently ill that night. I was sitting on my Moroccan squat toilet and I was like projectile vomiting and projectile shitting.

2:55:28SpeakerI was in terrible shape. Projectile shitting? I smoked a few Simpsies of hash, of really good Moroccan hash. And immediately my stomach calmed down, my lower tract calmed down, and I mean, I still, it didn't, just what it did was it greatly relieved the symptoms. Then the next day I got some Paragord, which stopped me up like a pork. But meanwhile, I found cannabis amazingly to help against vomiting, et cetera.

2:56:10SpeakerYeah, that's really what started me on my trail for medical cannabis. Now I went to India and found out about a juice there, Ayurvedic juice. Sam, I'm going to ask you a question. You may know this. Twenty-five years ago, I was in the Gulf War, and when I was there in Saudi Arabia, I scored some red Lebanese. Do you know what genetic that was? Because I know while we were there, they destroyed the Bekaa Valley, but it was an equatorial for sure.

2:56:38SpeakerI know, of course, that the red is from the dirt, but... Yeah, I think mostly it's from dirt. No, the color, yes, but I was wondering if you might know what that genetic might have been from Bacal Valley back then. Oh, I don't know, but, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if some of what was being grown in Algeria and Morocco back in that time had a little bit of that influence, but...

2:57:07SpeakerYeah, Lebanese was kind of like almost an Afghanist type plant, but not really.

2:57:22SpeakerWelcome back, Todd.

2:57:27SpeakerHello, everybody. Internet difficulties, but it'll be fine. But what was grown in Lebanon was definitely grown for... Do you hear me, Todd? Yes? Okay. Yeah, I totally hear you, Sam, yeah. Okay. What was grown in Lebanon was definitely grown for resin. I mean, it wasn't grown for marijuana. It was grown for resin. Whereas in Morocco, at first, they grew it for cannabis for What they called keef, which was chopped up marijuana flowers, not resin.

2:58:04SpeakerAnd then they started making resin after the 60s.

2:58:10SpeakerThank you.

2:58:13SpeakerSo keef is a misnomer we use too, correct? Absolutely. Keef, absolutely what it is, is chopped up marijuana flowers with the seeds and stems and leaves removed, mixed with black tobacco.

2:58:31SpeakerWow, isn't it also the Moroccan word for cannabis? No. No, I forget what it was. It was a different word. So we should call keef resin powder. No. What should we call it? Keef is not resin powder. Keef is chopped up marijuana flowers mixed with black tobacco. No, no, no, I know. But here in America we use the word keef to describe really resin powder. I don't know how else to put it.

2:59:02SpeakerYeah, but it's a misnomer. Just like in Europe, they say pollen. Right, right, right, right, right. Meatless pollinator, right. There's no pollen in the pollinator. Everybody used to say indica and sativa. Well, that's still changing slowly.

2:59:24SpeakerAll the really strong weed in the UK is skunk weed. Is that what cheese is? I heard that makes you psychotic. No, no. No, I'm just saying, when you see in the news, the headlines, all of the weed, the really strong weed in the UK is the psychotic skunk weed. Is there skunks in England?

2:59:51SpeakerMostly in people's closets. Does skunk the animal doesn't exist? There are no leashes on those skunks is what we're saying. So do they blame your strain for all the people who go schizophrenic? They're basically like, that terp profile and that skunk weed, that's what they section people over? Definitely blamed his strain. Well, I actually bred it specifically to get Horatio to go totally insane bonkers. Well, yeah, of course, you're like, I had a lot of good myrcene, but I exchanged that for more limonene content.

3:00:32SpeakerI'm like, I don't need that. I need that myrcene content. What do you do that to the skunk for? I have no idea. I think the reason that they said that was just because it was very strong, okay? In other words, if you grew a skunk seed, you probably got a very turpent, a plant with a lot of terpenes and a moderate to high THC. And it was at first better than anything anybody else was growing before there was other seed companies, put it that way.

3:01:09SpeakerArt, I'm not going to lie. I understand why they blame you. But in England, every strong weed is skunk. Whether it's skunk or whether it's Northern Lights or whether it's Afghani No. 1, it's skunk if it's strong. It's a generic word. I don't, I just, I, for some reason I feel like you brought Terps to England and those Terps fuck people up bad to the point where anyone who gets Terps and gets fucked up, it must be that skunk.

3:01:39SpeakerBecause you basically said it, you're like, it carries such a Terpene profile that if people are basically on no salt and pepper and then they get salt and pepper, they would go apeshit. Um... When it first came out, it makes absolute sense. Salt used to be worth equal to the price of gold.

3:02:01SpeakerYeah, no, I can see it being illogical. What Gandhi was protesting was the salt. This Great Salt March was when he walked across India and made salt on the beach. I mean, we may think that it's absurd to make cannabis illegal, but at that time, they were walking past cannabis plants that were perfectly legal as they were upset about the prohibition of salt. Now, the British, in fact, under the Indian Health Commission report and stuff like that, they taxed the cannabis and the hashish trade.

3:02:31SpeakerThey imported hashish from the dock into Kashmir and taxed it, regulated it.

3:02:40SpeakerUntil they got to opium and then they went with the opium. Well, that's what they sold to the Chinese.

3:02:52BubblemanShout out to West Coast Concentrate. At Hindu, my goodness. That's good stuff. What did you say, Mark? Voodoo? Voodoo, voodoo, Hindu. Hindu?

3:03:13BubblemanIt's Hindu.

3:03:16BubblemanIt's good. Regardless of... Maybe I'll take this Hindu and I'll dip it into the purple Hindu turps.

3:03:30SpeakerHe's making a snozzberry, ladies and gentlemen.

3:03:32BubblemanSnozzberries do smell like snozzberries.

3:03:39BubblemanDon't anybody mention what snozzleberries are. Hey, there's two of them. Hey, there's Josh with Space. Happy belated birthday, dude.

3:03:52SpeakerHey, thank you very much. We're enjoying a beautiful rainy day here in Southern California. By the pool.

3:04:03BubblemanBy the pool. Got the ship out.

3:04:06Ryan Dank AfSmoking some of this amazing orange creamsicle.

3:04:10SpeakerI can't stop smoking this ass.

3:04:13BubblemanI've been dipping the turps. That's the closest I can get is to... We have some turps that were extracted from the same flower. Yes. Yeah, Tony's got it.

3:04:42SpeakerWhat hits me is calling me around the block where he was taking a little bit of the hash and then mixing a little bit of the rosin butter that he made and then dipping it straight in the turps and then giving people rips of it. Watching their facial expressions was pretty nice. Every time that was about three booths away from us in there, like every time someone would take a hit, they'd be like, oh god, that smells so good.

3:05:04SpeakerThere's barbecued oranges over there.

3:05:09BubblemanWell, hopefully you guys get to go be there again today, but maybe it won't happen. Maybe it'll have to be a next weekend thing. 70 mile an hour winds seem pretty extreme. I don't think I'd go to the cup. I mean, I've gone to some pretty shady cups in Amsterdam in like, Weird like outdoor buildings that are for boats or like one year it was this building across from the milk bag that was like had holes in the floor like just giant holes that looked like a jackhammer broke through the concrete floor and it went down like at least one or two stories.

3:05:42BubblemanIt was... And then they had a lift, lifting everyone up, but it was like a lift, not an elevator. You could only bring up like 1.5 Americans at a time. And then it was like, eventually, I'm shitting you not, eventually we had 4,000 people in that building on the top floor, and at the end, everyone wanted to leave, but it was like, it was pretty much as ridiculous, I think it was like maybe three or four people could go in the elevator at once.

3:06:10SpeakerI can't believe how surprised you're going to be when you see a cannabis cup that happens here compared to them. Because you've only been to the ones in Amsterdam, right?

3:06:20BubblemanYeah, well the only thing I've been to that would be, I think, comparable would be like a Spanibus in Spain, which is a very big event and hundreds of booths. There's thousands of, I don't know, 40,000 people or whatever show up. Mark! Yes?

3:06:39SpeakerExcuse me, were you done? No, yeah, of course I was. Go ahead. Okay. I've actually attended every High Times Cannabis Cup in Amsterdam.

3:06:51BubblemanI remember that.

3:06:52SpeakerEvery single one. I think I'm the only person.

3:06:57BubblemanAnd you started it off with a bang by winning the first one, no?

3:07:01SpeakerActually, that's true also. Nice.

3:07:06SpeakerWhen did it first start for you? When was the first dinner with Hager? And when do you feel, because a lot of people like me think that 1994 was the first year that was open to the public. Well, it was the first year. It was open to the public in 1994, but I think 88's the year I won it. I'd have to go look at my, they didn't even give me a trophy, they gave me this little plaque.

3:07:28SpeakerThat's what I got. Didn't High Times do a thing where they sent a freedom fighter to, you know, there as well, and they got to be a judge, and so it was way before. I thought it was LV. I thought it was a freedom fighter they sent one year. I think that was 93. Yeah, that was much later.

3:07:49SpeakerYeah, much later. The first couple ones were just strictly seed companies. There was no coffee shops involved. Annie's the one who brought the coffee shops in.

3:08:00BubblemanI'll tell a story of a cannabis cup around, oh, I don't know, maybe 99, 2000, could have even been 2001. But the way, when I got to the event, if I wanted to find Sam... I would follow the one-hit screens and matches that were literally creating a pathway. Because he would put a fresh screen down and throw some hash down and rip it and then just toss that screen away, not clean the bowl off, not smoke the last little bit, just toss it.

3:08:33BubblemanAnd it was like... You could find him mostly from the matches, but from those clean little screens too, which I have to admit, Sam, I told a few people what they were, and I saw them later picking them up.

3:08:46SpeakerWell, I could honestly say that that's when I had a lot more dry sift than I do now. Oh, my God. That was extreme dry sift.

3:08:57BubblemanHeaven.

3:08:59SpeakerYou know, Sam, could you talk a little bit about old Ed Holloway? You brought over a little... Little gift for the old man on his 80th birthday, and it was the most magical resin glands I'd ever seen under a microscope. And, you know, what did that old Ed do, and how long had you... Well, he was really the first American to get people to grow, mostly outdoors.

3:09:25SpeakerHe was trying to repeat his experience in Oregon, I think, and...

3:09:32SpeakerBut the problem here is that it's really tough to find varieties that you can grow outdoors in a field here in the Netherlands and get to mature. Even my Durban Poison South African variety, if it was a bad year, the crop was fucked. So it was tough. So he had a lot of problems. He was an outdoor grower. Whereas when I came over, I taught people I was an indoor under greenhouse grower.

3:10:06SpeakerAnd that's what Holland really needed. They needed really good dependable seeds like scum seeds, and they needed greenhouse technology. And they were already leaders in it, they just weren't using it for cannabis until the early 80s. And that is what really changed everything. Yeah, I had the fortune of spending almost the whole year of 96 with Ed, the year he turned 79 to 80, and it was really nice.

3:10:39SpeakerWe were trying new varieties at Posse and stuff, and I would hold up buds to him, and he would always give me countries of origin from the scent. From what he had smoked when he was younger.

3:10:55BubblemanYep, it looks like Todd had technical difficulties again. He's froze up, but good call on finishing what he was saying there, Sam. That was literally like, I don't even think you realized he was freezing up, but that was impeccable timing.

3:11:08SpeakerNo problem. I knew what he wanted to say. From a host standpoint. When it comes to that different poison, is it the genetic development? How do you go from something that's from South Africa to the number one strains that they love growing in the Kootenays, in the Yukon, over in Alaska? Why is it so good outdoors in cold climates, but it comes from a place you would think is so equatorial?

3:11:34SpeakerWhat is the shift that makes that possible? First of all, genetics in South Africa came from everywhere. Not only India, where you expect it to be more equatorial leaning, you know, more narrow-leaf drug variety, but also from many other places. Think about all the ships that went around the tip of Africa, over to India, Asia, and back again up into Europe. So, and then eventually even across to the Americas and stuff.

3:12:15SpeakerBut they all went around there. And everybody pretty much knows that ships like to carry cannabis seeds. In case they needed, they crashed and got shipwrecked and needed to grow ropes and stuff to help refit their ship. But besides that, I think drug rioters were carried by a lot of people who smoked back in those days on ships and it just wasn't recorded because, you know, it was always low key.

3:12:49SpeakerIt was always the poor and the sick. And the disenfranchised who found solace in cannabis products. So they're actually, like, now that you put it in those terms of the trade routes and why boats have to stop, and I'm like, holy shit, you have an insane exchange of cultures meeting from, like, India goes from the Himalayas right back down to Sri Lanka, so it's huge. All of those people could be passing the tip of Africa in both ways.

3:13:22SpeakerSo would those be seeds that then went into land race formation and then were found in South Africa? Like, is it, like, You just blew my mind. It sounds like that's the history. The Arabs brought cannabis probably even earlier than the ship were able to do it at first. But once the Arabs did it, it probably, those varieties co-mingled with people who dropped seeds off when they were doing it and said, hey, when I come back in a couple of years, we'll see what happens.

3:13:57SpeakerI mean, it's just like it is today. There's constant, and because so many ships went around the tip there is why there was so much gene possibilities there. It's kind of like Jamaica today, or Mexico today, or Morocco today. I mean, there's a lot of gene flow in those areas.

3:14:26SpeakerIt could have easily stabilized there. This could have been going on for hundreds of years, and it just slowly changed and modified, and the locals down there selected it for drug varieties out of the G pool that they have. So something like Durban could literally be from like the Himalayas, then develops in a hot climate and takes on other characteristics, and then stabilized, we export it back to the northern client and produce something completely different.

3:14:51SpeakerActually, Durban is pretty early. For a narrow-leaf drug variety back in the 80s, it was my earliest true drug variety.

3:15:07SpeakerThat's crazy. It's crazy. And do you think, like, all the way back then, like when you first started, did it always carry that THCV note that, like, I always read, like, Irving's always got it? Yeah, there was a little bit of THCV. Also, there was a tendency to smell kind of anise-y or licorice-y.

3:15:30SpeakerBut nowadays, there's a lot more...

3:15:34SpeakerSouth African Durban Poison, what people call that varieties. Mine was the first one that was available to other people, but it wasn't the last one. That's cool, because since Chimera brought up the whole plant families that the cultivars, they don't have the strength of variety, so you just find the terpene levels change, like Bubba Kush and Trainwreck, and I was just thinking about Alaska Thunderfuck and Durban Poison, and I'm like, huh, they both do that same thing where they're really, really good up north, but they also seem to have this super sativa, narrow-leaf A fact that you would think is always equatorially based, but no, it sounds like Durban could literally be an Afghani early flowering narrow leaf variety that survived and then got shipped south to add some sun.

3:16:26SpeakerOr hybridized up the wazoo down there and then it settled out to what it is. I'm talking about hundreds of years ago. I could totally watch a David Attenborough voice just tell me the long, long journey of any one of these fucking strains when you put it as like South Africa was at war and this thing survived. Eventually, Rob and I working with Phylos hope to unravel most of the cannabis evolution and relationships.

3:16:57SpeakerWe don't know if we can, but we're going to certainly try with a combination of using... We've got a lot of cannabis material that people have, even old dead seeds we can get DNA from. And then also Rob is getting museum samples, herbarium samples. Some of these are hundreds of years old. So we'll have a wide selection. What I'd really like to have would be dozens of samples quite literally from any traditional area of cannabis, whether it be for drugs.

3:17:32SpeakerLet's legitimate. Yeah, and I don't need to grow them either. I just need the DNA so that we can see what's related to what evolved from what. People in the chat seem to be asking, what can you speak on about the Malawi? That's out of my league of awesome strains to try. If I didn't know better, I would say that when the best Malawi was around was when it was wrapped in corn stalks and it was coming into the Americas in the mid-70s, early mid-70s, and Malawi was coming in.

3:18:21SpeakerIt was quite spectacular.

3:18:25SpeakerThe seeds, to me, look Thai. The weed almost reminds me of Thai. If I didn't know better, I'd swear to God that some Western smugglers took Thai seeds to fucking Malawi. I would love to see if there's any relationship between Thai and Malawi genetics.

3:18:49BubblemanYou know, I went in the 90s, and what I found in Thailand was that it seemed like the best herb came from Cambodia.

3:18:57SpeakerWell, that's only because they had swatted it down so hard in Thailand. Cambodia and Laos did not have as good a weed as Thailand in the 70s. The weed was so good, we used to do the spaghetti test. You get a Thai stick, and you throw it up against a wall, and it stuck.

3:19:20SpeakerThat's the good tie stick, huh? It had so much resin, and there was so little leaf. There was no stems or seeds. It was all just gooey fucking flowers. Sam, that's insane. People do the bud wall test, but you're saying it held up the whole stick?

3:19:40SpeakerYou throw a tie stick up against a wall, and it would stick.

3:19:46SpeakerDamn. So tie stick had dual meaning. No, a tie stick meant it was one or two. Yeah, a tie stick, right. Funny. I get it. I'm a little bit slow this evening. It's all good. You mean that stuff that's tied to a stick.

3:20:07SpeakerBut no, we used to get tie sticks that were just quite literally incredible. You could go through a kilo of them and you were lucky to find one or two seeds. Wow. So what are some of the countries that make up Haze, Sam? What are some of the countries that make up the original? This is pure Colombian, but that was the original Haze Brewer, and then the other Haze Brewer, what they call the two Haze Brothers, but they weren't.

3:20:38SpeakerBut he added... Uh, South Indian and Thai a little bit because, uh, his haze was getting embedded and running down, was running out bigger. So he had a Thai and Colombian to try and pep it up and, uh, that's what, but really pure haze was pure Colombian. It was, uh, uh, a purple Colombian which was, uh, uh, Punta Rojas. And there was a magenta and a green.

3:21:07SpeakerBut they were all three Colombian lines that were bred together and made all the different varieties of A's, whether it was silver, blue, magenta, all those. They just came from those three Colombian lines that were so. Yeah.

3:21:24BubblemanSomeone asked if you could speak on the brotherhood of eternal love.

3:21:30SpeakerI only had one friend who was one of the brothers, and he died pretty early in the game in Lebanon, importing a couple tons from Lebanon. I mean, I don't really know them myself personally, but for example, when the brother had a party, when was that, 69 Diana?

3:22:02SpeakerMaybe Christmas of 69 the Brotherhood had a big stomp party in Laguna Beach, in Laguna Canyon. The police surrounded it and tried to stop people from getting into it because nobody had arranged anybody with any permits or anything. There was a stage. Everybody was playing great music. I forget the bands now, but somebody from the helicopter dropped hits of Orange Sunshine, like maybe 1,000 or 2,000. Sounds like an Owsley Stanley maneuver.

3:22:43SpeakerYeah, that sounds great. There were pieces of hand-pressed thin Afghan patties. The Brotherhood people, they just had piles of them like this, and people were just smoking it. It was a wild, wild event. I got dosed really, really bad. I mean, nothing bad. It was fine, but way beyond what a human being is supposed to take.

3:23:14SpeakerOh my God, that story ended with... Luckily, my wife was with me. There you go, swallowing a strange LSD that people give you for free. Well, it was only 50 or 60 hits, so it wasn't so bad. But my wife was with me, so she led me around and took care of me and took me home. I actually slept that night, but next morning I was ready to party some more.

3:23:42BubblemanJesus. Next day I was ready.

3:23:46SpeakerDiana took a tiny, tiny sip of orange juice. I drank half the bottle. It turned out there was 100 hits in it.

3:23:57BubblemanJeez, yeah. Got to be careful of those mop-up trips. People start putting large amounts into little bottles.

3:24:07BubblemanCrystals. I can only imagine. That sounds amazing.

3:24:10SpeakerSam, I wanted to ask you, going back to Ty's steak, I've had conflicting sales of color that it was, you know, sandy in color, other it was bright green. Can you tell, you know, just... I don't think there's any good color for Ty. I've seen it from goldish to lime greenish to darker greenish to purplish, so I don't think there's any good color for Ty. Sam, was it real purple or was it like where they grew it?

3:24:42SpeakerNo, it was more like green that turns into purple tips. Brownish purple is what I remember. That's purple.

3:24:53SpeakerBut I thought at the time that Thai was probably the best commercial weed in the world. Well, I've got a commercial question for you, and it's a purple question. There's been photos of purple resin on the interwebs, and people have asked me about it, and I was perplexed, and I want to know if some of the oils coming off of cannabis are indeed purple. And are the resin heads themselves actually purple?

3:25:25BubblemanWell, they're saying anthocyanin from the stalks.

3:25:29SpeakerRight. That's what I was just going to get at. But I was asking, is the resin head, or is it just, you know, like you're saying, Mark? I don't know. I haven't seen that much resin that was actually purple. I've seen some kind of... Yeah, there were some that strung around it. What?

3:25:47BubblemanWell here, let's all get on the same page first of all. So if you go check out this cat on Instagram, his name is Chew, C-H-E-W. I've never used Instagram. I know, but I'll tell everyone else and I can send you the links via the computer. So it's C-H-E-W-B-E-R-T-O, so that's Chewberto420, 420. So Chewberto420 on Instagram and he's got all sorts of pictures up now and it's actually like a pinkish dark...

3:26:17BubblemanI don't know if you guys can really see that.

3:26:20SpeakerMark, with your micro photos, haven't you seen purple stamp going up the stocks? 100%. I've seen it for years.

3:26:33BubblemanLook at the rosin though on this.

3:26:36SpeakerYeah, it's kind of hard for me to tell for sure. Well, look how pink it is. Well, that's the pink, but I'm wondering where did the pink come from? Was it from the trichome stems or the trichome heads?

3:26:52BubblemanYeah, I mean, you'd think it would make more sense if it was from the trichome heads, considering that's what that hash is most, or that oil, I should say, is mostly made up of, the juice from inside the heads. But if he's using flour. It's kind of purdy. It's very purdy. I'm just saying if he's using flowers and he's squishing that bud and he's steaming it out.

3:27:13BubblemanI know Tony did an anthocyanin. It's water soluble. He did an extraction a while back and got pure anthocyanin. It was red and kind of flaky like that rosin I made with Breeders Steve recently. I don't know if you guys saw that, but my God, that's just like red shards. Shards, I tell you.

3:27:32SpeakerDo you think that flavonoids might be soluble by pressing like with rosin? Do you have an opinion on that part? Yeah, I think it might be flavonoids because flavonoids often have long wavelength chromophores, which is chemistry. One thing I'm sure about is that I'm pretty sure all flavonoids are destroyed by gamma Yeah, but there's a lot of other phenolic compounds, so there's quite a bit, and you've got to remember that with color, always with color is that a little bit of a very, very potent chromophore can go a long way.

3:28:11SpeakerOh, yeah, yeah, for sure. A lot of material, and so just because you're seeing a pinkish or a red color in there doesn't mean that there's actually a measurable amount of a different compound in there. It could be a lot of these phenolic-type pigments that It's a function of what pH they're at, whether or not they're ionized or not. And some of them will go from a very clear, almost yellow color to at high pH they become very intensely colored yellow or even reddish orange.

3:28:45SpeakerSo a lot of those phenols do have long wavelength chromophores that can, yeah, very subtle changes in chemistry can certainly make a lot of changes in color. Not surprised.

3:29:00BubblemanThere's the flower this guy's using to make that amber, pink, purpley... I'll tell him his resume looks white.

3:29:09SpeakerI sent you a link, Sam. Does your resume look white to you, Todd? Well, I was suspect of the oils itself picking up the colors of the vegetable material, although the oil is, you know, just part of the plant, too. I just hadn't seen that before, and when people asked me about it, I was a bit perplexed. In the picture you just posted of the bud, does the residue look white?

3:29:41SpeakerMark is analyzing this. Okay, I want to hear you guys' expert opinion.

3:29:47BubblemanI was answering someone in chat. I missed your, what was your question, Sam?

3:29:52SpeakerSomebody just posted a picture of the bud that this pink resin rose comes from.

3:29:58BubblemanYeah.

3:29:59SpeakerWas the resin in the bud white? It looked like that on the top cola, but the, I mean, the sugar leaves were beautifully, like beautifully red. To get that,

3:30:12BubblemanAll I'm asking is, were the resin heads colored or white? He doesn't have any macro photos, so it's impossible to see.

3:30:19SpeakerHe does have a photo of that purple on it, and the reality is, is it looks like, on a dark background, the resin looks very light.

3:30:29SpeakerYeah. But I could see how, if you crushed that leaf, you would get ink really easily. Yeah, probably. Especially if you had water in it. The leaves are from the trichomes too. It could squish out and get picked up by the terps.

3:30:43BubblemanYeah, but it's so prevalent. That is completely purple.

3:30:49SpeakerIt's a cup winner if I saw it in my entry pack. I love the way it looks.

3:30:55BubblemanI mean, if it tasted great and had great effect, it would definitely be hard to... So, what's the name of it? Party Pink? Purdy Pink, it's the Purdy Pink. I think it's time to do a Red Congolese dip and dab.

3:31:17BubblemanThat's what time it is for me. Load what you have. Because it is now 1231. We've been at this for three and a half hours. God, it goes by faster and faster each week.

3:31:31SpeakerI got some Red Congolese here too. Well, let's get that Red Congolese... Ready and loaded. Someone dropped, what's the red part of the condolese? Is it just a pheno or a way of finishing it?

3:31:44BubblemanApparently the seeds got broken into two batches or there were two different ones or something and one went to Cali and one came to Canada. I think we got the green one and they got the red one and so this is the red one and it is quite different from what I know as the condolese but it's very nice and spicy and unique and just It's nice.

3:32:05BubblemanI really like it. It's land racy.

3:32:07SpeakerIt's very distinct. It very smells equatorial for sure.

3:32:14SpeakerIsn't that high in caryophylline? Isn't caryophylline a very prevalent terpene in that strain?

3:32:22BubblemanThe Red Congo?

3:32:24SpeakerI would guess that the Green Dragon has caryophylline.

3:32:29BubblemanI didn't have the Green Dragon.

3:32:34SpeakerI thought I looked at some results from Johnny B. once before on one of his videos, and I just remembered that maybe that peppery essence of the Congolese is due to caryophylline and humaline.

3:32:53BubblemanOh, booyah, abu-ayah. That was that Hindu dipped in red Congolese. Delicious.

3:33:06SpeakerDid anyone get word if they have officially called Sam Bernardino for the day or not? I've got no word yet.

3:33:13BubblemanThose guys just dropped out again, so I'm not too sure.

3:33:23BubblemanMy goodness.

3:33:27BubblemanYeah, I'm down with that right there. Is it one of your favorite Sams or what? Which one? Red Congo.

3:33:39SpeakerYes, one of these, of my favorites, yes. I would like to see as many different ones as I can try, but Red Congo, for some reason, when I add it to different sips and resins and stuff, it draws me to it. After I smoke the other ones, I still... I think, oh, I'd like to try that red corn for condolence again. So, I can't say why, but it does.

3:34:15SpeakerYeah? My wife says I said it was spicy. Maybe I was talking about my wife, but I thought she was spicy. I forget.

3:34:34BubblemanOoh. Careful now.

3:34:36SpeakerCareful now.

3:34:40BubblemanOh, man. Every hit I take, even that Red Congolese still had a little bit of that strawberry banana flavor in there. Just from the pipe. That's ridiculous.

3:34:52SpeakerRidiculous. Well, you see, it turned out to be true, huh? Because I can honestly tell you that in 19, I think it was 65, 66, somebody, I think it was one of the yippies or something, put out the myth and the rumor that if you scraped the banana peels and dried them in the oven and then smoked them, it got you high. So, of course, I tried it.

3:35:20BubblemanSmoking banana peels. I think it was a Dead Milkman song in this punk rock band from the 80s.

3:35:25SpeakerI guarantee you that there was a... All the underground newspapers at the time were saying, you know, that there was just... Supposedly, if you smoke this, you get... But what was really funny is I rolled the joint of this supposed stuff, and I smoked it in a... It was like sort of a beat club, coffee shop club in Hollywood back in 65 and it was called the Fifth Estate.

3:35:57SpeakerSo I'm smoking it and the guy came over, the guy who ran it, I can't remember his name anymore, but he kicked me out. We're smoking banana peels.

3:36:11BubblemanOh my God. I was wondering where you were going with this story. And then it's like, oh my God, you got kicked out.

3:36:19SpeakerI says, it's banana peels. And he goes, I don't care, you're out.

3:36:25SpeakerOh my God.

3:36:28BubblemanYou trying to explain, bro, it's banana peels. Oh my God.

3:36:39BubblemanThat's just ridiculous. Anyone else smoke banana peels on the panel?

3:36:46SpeakerWasn't there a Donovan song? They call me mellow yellow. Sam, I'll do you one better. In the Gulf, some guy heard that if you took tea leaves and pressed toothpaste and rolled it in a paper, it would get you high.

3:37:03BubblemanIt cleans your teeth. And don't forget, it crystallizes your pineal gland. Don't forget the... Yeah, the fluoride. The fluoride, the fluoride, aluminum deposits, you know. Best to use that fluoride-free toothpaste, in my opinion. I'm not like a conspiracy freak, I'm just saying... That stuff is considered toxic waste. Probably best not to brush our teeth with it.

3:37:37SpeakerNo, just put a safe percent in all things edible. You know, we put a thing that said spit it out, so I don't know why someone would swallow toothpaste. You know, you just put it in that big gland of sublingual effects. That's so freakish that everywhere you go in society you just haven't tested for it yet some toxic weirdness is being, a micro percent is being added.

3:38:00BubblemanA lot of people don't even know that there's warnings on toothpaste that yeah, if you swallow too much you're supposed to contact poison control and That's because of the fluoride.

3:38:17SpeakerHave you ever seen that stuff? I remember one day when pentane was the big issue, some guy was like, there's pentane in toothpaste, and he posted a picture of his toothpaste, and it said it had pentane in it, and I'm like, you're fucking kidding me. He must have photoshopped this. Are we talking about anything real? I don't fuck with a lot of stuff. I don't have city water, but I mean, I've seen things like the Ricky Lake children, these 13-year-olds that have 18-year-old bodies.

3:38:44SpeakerI always assumed it was stuff in the water. But is there any mutagenic compounds that could realiztically fuck us up and, you know, I don't want to get crazy toothpaste. I don't know. I don't, I don't, I don't, I really don't know. I mean, I know that fluorinated water has got its ups and downs and people don't know whether or not there's going to be Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:39:32SpeakerIt kind of like, you know, shines up the surface. Well, that's because it basically eats up a lot of the aluminum oxide coating that's on this. And so, yeah, there's more and more aluminum getting into human being these days, and they almost think that, again, some of the issues they're seeing with amyloid plaques in certain neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's has something to do with The increase of aluminum in humans' diet.

3:40:04SpeakerAt least, Mark, aluminum's not a heavy metal. I mean, it's pretty lightweight, yeah? Yeah, it just, it forms, the problem with aluminum, Sam, is it forms insoluble complexes, and it doesn't like to be soluble. I have never bought or used aluminum cookware in my life. I even was skeptical of using aluminum bakeware, so we really don't use it. Yeah, you should use glass where you can. Yeah, that's what we do.

3:40:42SpeakerI don't know about, you know, again, fluorinated surfaces like Teflon pans. A lot of people have asked about this, and this is kind of for... If the Teflon gets scratched off, you know where it's going. It's going in there. The only question is, does it accumulate, or do you poop it out? Yeah, it just naturally distributes through biology, and it just doesn't go anywhere because there is no known degradation mechanism for...

3:41:09SpeakerThank you so much for joining us today. We'll be starting in about a minute or so.

3:41:39SpeakerBut certainly with fluorinated materials, these things are going to be problematic if they get inside your resin. You don't want them inside your hash or your resin.

3:41:51BubblemanDon't need them in my resin? No siree, don't need them at all.

3:41:56SpeakerYeah, and I don't know, Mark, have you, has there been any look at to see what the impact on fluorinated water, fluorinated water does in ice water hash maybe? I mean, does that... Well, I know when I smoke water hash, it's made from chlorinated water, but it makes my teeth a lot brighter, and I've got to get this right. So you just brush your teeth with your hash?

3:42:30SpeakerMark, in India, the standards use a stick of neem. Yeah.

3:42:37BubblemanAnd then when their teeth are all rotting out of their heads, they just fill it with amber.

3:42:46BubblemanI see that, filling cavities with just that amber.

3:42:51SpeakerThat's funny, I was taught, yeah, a neem leaf in the morning is the toothbrush of India, and then you're like, yeah, when their teeth fall out, this is what they do. I was like, oh my God.

3:43:03BubblemanWell, I haven't used fluoride toothpaste in years, and I have all my teeth, and they're pretty white, I think. I don't know. I don't really judge the color of them. They're definitely not yellow. And I'm happy to keep them where they belong in my head, but I'm happy at the same time to not be consuming fluoridated toothpaste every day.

3:43:23SpeakerI think most of the water in that is fluoridated.

3:43:29BubblemanOh, tons of it is. Makes sense.

3:43:33SpeakerUnless you have your own private well or water system. Yeah, that's what we have in our village.

3:43:40SpeakerYeah, well that's what I was wondering if that fluoridation has any impact on ice water hash or water hash making. If there's fluoride in the water and the hash is in the water, isn't there going to be fluoride in the hash? I mean, it's a question of degree. I mean, it's supposed to be safe for us to drink out of the tap set, but I could see how chlorinated water, which is regionally, can be very, like, ridiculous out of the tap set.

3:44:12SpeakerLike, Sam, were you being, I mean, I know there was a joke in there, but have you ever experienced that, where you're like, this water has just, like, feels bleached? I would try to use water that did not have chlorination or chlorides or anything chlorinated. But at the same time, you don't want to use distilled water. Because if you use distilled water, it'll strip. Yeah, I don't think that's good.

3:44:41SpeakerI could see that. Distilled water will take everything. You'll have wonderful hydrosol, but it's not good for your hash. So I guess the balance is some form of mineral content so that the water's not taking and it's more of a... Basically, insoluble medium is what you want to do. I really don't know if it's better to use hard or soft. I've spent all my time dry-sinking on water.

3:45:04SpeakerYou've got to ask Mark. He's the guy behind the water match. Him and me, though. I think he's probably still there.

3:45:17SpeakerWell, I can tell you that adding mineral content changes the properties of the water. It changes the dielectric constant of the water. It changes a lot of the surface tension properties of water. I know that if you've ever... When I first learned how to make a water mask, I was one of the first ten people, me and Rob Clark. We'd just been taught. First thing we did is we added salt, we added hot water, boiling hot water, freezing water, we added sugar, we added vinegar, we tried to do everything we could think of.

3:46:08SpeakerThe cold was the only thing we could do.

3:46:16SpeakerSam, can you come a little bit closer when you're dropping bombs everywhere? Like, you just went through so many things that are soluble in water but completely change the availability of terpenes to transfer in that water. I think, because, I mean, if you basically said you tried salt back then and I see this salt water hash, it's clearly old design. No, alls we were really trying to do at that time was trying to see, because what we were doing at the time was taking buds that were dry, putting them in a coffee grinder, because this is what Neville showed us, and then dropping like a cup full or so in a large glass container, which allowed to settle.

3:47:06SpeakerAnd we were just trying to find ways to make Better, faster separation. That's all.

3:47:21SpeakerSo we tried everything. Salt, vinegar, everything we could think of. If y'all go to the Hash Church, Graham Freeman actually posted a picture of purple trichromes. And so the... Necrophoto, so you can see them. So you can see it's both. There's clear as well as looks to be magenta to purple. So the entire resin head is purple? Yes. The resin head is purple. What? I see purple resin head.

3:47:54SpeakerThe entire head is purple? Yes.

3:47:59SpeakerWell, first of all, for example, let's say the resin head is filled with Cannabinoids, THC, terpenes, whatever, and some of this anti-science gets in, okay? The terpene might act as a solvent and spread it equally through the entire resident. I'm just guessing here. I don't know. It's totally logical in the way rosin works as a steam jet event. If it's water soluble, it gets thinly spread, and then the solvent terpenes and the oil would equally pick it up as they also jet and recombine.

3:48:37SpeakerCould it be a celery effect? Like, you know, when you put purple dye in water that celery's in, it draws it all up and it absolutely, you can see it reflected in the capillaries and the areas in which it pulls it up. I mean, is there something like that that could happen with cannabis? If you dried the plant out and then actually let it suck up a bunch of, you know, food dyed water.

3:48:59SpeakerYeah, you're talking about capillary action. That's what it's called, capillary action. Would there be a similar one? Could this be... Also, it could be some sort of a terpene with the cannabinoids and... Excuse me, I forgot what I was going to say. Oh, like osmotic reaction. Osmotic pressure between the terpenes and the cannabinoids and everything else. Which makes sense. When you look at the pictures, you see clear ones as well as those that are the third picture down I'm referencing.

3:49:40SpeakerYou see also the purple ones all together, so it could definitely be osmosis. Why not? Especially with those chemicals that break down those colors, so it could absorb and reflect and refract, right? And do you think it could be cold populated? Because what I've seen is that some genetics are strong cold purple. The plants are going to be purple even if it's warm. But other ones have to be cold before they turn purple.

3:50:13SpeakerWell, when it's like just by cold, it doesn't seem to affect the extract because people do that all the time. But it seems to only come up in those true purples. That's kind of why I asked you about those other strains. Like what is it that causes true purple like through and through, like right into, is it just crazy anthocyanin production or is it? What are you talking about?

3:50:36SpeakerRosen, resin, or buds? Bud itself, yeah, like the true purple that probably created this. No, I think that there's phenolic pigments in there, and again, they could be azulene. Azulene is a naturally occurring terpene that is blue in color. So azulene, plus like any of these other phenolic terpenes, which are typically either reddish or yellowish or orange, Blue plus red is equal to purple, right? It's not necessarily one compound.

3:51:11SpeakerIt could be a mixture of compounds. You make a good point. You make a good point because when I distill, if I get a blurring of the azoline and the cannabinoids, it will turn, it will be green. The pass will be green rather than blue. And that's what happens. And people go, I saw this crazy green pass to the point of presuming azoline is green. Right, so blue plus yellow is equal to green, right?

3:51:36SpeakerSo what are you saying? Basically, it could be that plus CBN? Who knows? I mean, I have no idea. I mean, you've got to remember, again, that Whenever you're looking at flavor or taste or color, these are bulk properties that are attributed to not just one single molecule, but multiple molecules. And how these molecules dance and play music together is really what you're talking about. And yeah, I mean, it's very much a variable process.

3:52:06SpeakerAlso, too, flavonoids could be one of the reasons why oral cannabis It's so much different than smoked cannabis. Not only does it go through the liver so it gets metabolized by the liver when you eat it, but if the flavonoids are oral when you eat them, they can have major modifying effects for the cannabinoids and terpenes when you eat them, not when you smoke them. Yeah, agreed.

3:52:47BubblemanWell, did we make it to the end, boys? Is it our four hour? We peak out in seven minutes on four hours. If anyone has any last comments for HashChurch71 they want to share with the panel and all the listeners. There we go. D420K, you were missed. I'm sure you had a good reason. We'll see you next week. We're thinking of Johnny B. We'll send this bong rip out to Johnny B.

3:53:16BubblemanI'm sitting in the surgery ward, getting better. Doing great. I'll have a video up of him talking about his surgery and how he feels and where he's at right now because a lot of people are wondering. And that video should go up in the next day or two. And yeah, thanks everyone for coming out and enjoying Hash Church with us. I think I'm going to get a...

3:53:44BubblemanA little Terp Dip happening. Tahoe OG. Terp Dip with the Hindu from the West Coast Concentrate crew. And enjoy your Sundays out there, everybody. I hope it's a good one. I hope you learned some great information. There were some knowledge bombs dropped in Hash Church today. I was just listening. Thanks, everyone, for dropping those bombs. Chimera and Skunk Man Sam and Horatio and Mark Scaldone and Todd McCormick and Etienne.

3:54:19BubblemanJust thanks everybody. This one's for you.

3:54:46SpeakerGood night.

3:54:48BubblemanCannabs and Terps.

3:54:50SpeakerChief. Much love.