Cannabis History and Future

0:01BubblemanHey, what's up everybody? Welcome to Hash Church episode 70. I'm going to send out the links here real quick. Make sure that the YouTube chat doesn't start up and have all that audio reverb going. So I'm just going to wait for that really quick. And welcome everyone. Thank you for showing up. We've got a whole schwack of people in the chat right now. And I'm sure we'll be getting there real soon.

0:28BubblemanAh, there we go. So we're going to mute that. Boom. Then we will go over to the Facebook and we will send that out, which is great because that way ATN usually comes in almost immediately. And then I'll send out the email version to a few people that haven't actually been making it in lately, but I'm still going to send it because we always want to see the people.

0:50BubblemanAnd there we go. I think, wow, Todd McCormick, that is very early for you, my friend. I'm shocked myself. I don't know what to say here. I went to go say hi to Etienne, and I looked, and it wasn't you.

1:05SpeakerGood to know my friends are a couple dicks for a second of order, right? I love you guys. What's up? Good morning. I mean, it's not before 10 a.m., fucking everybody. Yes. It's not easy, okay? Going to bed at 4 and getting up at 8 o'clock or 9 o'clock for your damn ass church has been a challenge.

1:25Etienne FontanJesus. How dare you? How dare you have church in the morning? You're a brave, brave man, Mr. McCormick. That's all I have to say, and thank you for being here so early.

1:34SpeakerI don't know if I'm brave, but mildly tired, for sure.

1:38Etienne FontanHey, I want to give a shout out to our people on the East Coast who are buried in the blizzard. Pack of fatty, as well as people in Alaska. I don't know if you guys heard, there was a 7.1 earthquake in Alaska last night.

1:51BubblemanOh, no.

1:52Etienne FontanA lot of people got messed up and I know they're still cleaning up out of it, especially the major cities, so shout out, much love, much peace, and we should definitely send a fatty out between those two tragedies.

2:05BubblemanYeah, you know, it's funny, I saw this morning that the blizzard was happening, well yesterday or whatever, saw the photos from, you know, NASA posted photos from space of what the blizzard looked like, and then this morning I opened my Instagram and And it was a guy, two guys, on skis. The one guy had an American flag coming out of his back like on a big pole.

2:25BubblemanAnd he was literally like shredding what looked to be like New York City, like right in the middle of the city. He was on skis getting pulled behind a Jeep and like doing jumps and stuff. And I just thought that is the way to enjoy a blizzard right there.

2:45SpeakerI was alive during the blizzard of 78 in New England when it fucking unbelievably snowed in 95. Tractor trailers stuck in their tracks on the highway. It was unbelievable. The snow was so high. The kids were sliding off of the overpass that had fences on it on top of where the signs were sliding down onto the highway. That much snow drift. It was unbelievable.

3:07Etienne FontanYeah, I was in the blizzard in 96 in New York City and it was fucking brutal. I mean... They had to shut down the entire city, had to kick all the taxis off the road, and then they just plowed just the main roads and all the side roads had literally 20 foot of snow literally down each alley. It was just brutal. Hold on. Hold on. Literally? Figuratively.

3:30Etienne FontanFiguratively. Figuratively.

3:33BubblemanI had mine in 86, the blizzard of 86 where we were going to the local Safeway grocery store and jumping off the roof into the snow banks because it really wasn't a very far jump at all. From the tractors pushing all the snow out of the road, they had made these banks that basically went about 6 to 10 feet from the roof of the grocery store. It was pretty incredible.

4:01BubblemanIn the meantime, Whistler has gotten 20 feet of snow this year and no one's flipping out or freaking out. They're just riding the snow.

4:11Etienne FontanSo with all the weather you guys have been getting, has it been affecting the water levels? Because I know you guys were also subject to the droughts. It's starting to affect things positively in California. We're definitely not out of the drought yet and we still have a ways to go, but All that snowpack's got to be helping your aquifers up there, right?

4:30BubblemanYeah, well, it will. When all the snowpack melts at the end of the season, it will help. And then in the meantime, the rain has been filling them up as well, so it's definitely very helpful at the end of the season when the spring comes in. All that snow will melt, and it's an important... Process that happens each year because it cleans out all that water that runs off the mountain basically cleans up all of the mountain runoff.

4:55BubblemanSo you get all the trees that have fallen and any sort of debris that just gets taken with the water and then cleaned out into the ocean.

5:03SpeakerSo can I show you guys something that I got given to me last night that you'll both be very envious of? Yeah. Oh, I saw that. Dude, it's number 57 of 500. Look at this. From his very first printing, I fucking went to dinner with his old roommate 40 years ago who saved three of them, and when I damn near died over it, he was like, you can have one of them, Todd.

5:26SpeakerI couldn't believe it. And on top of that, which Rob hadn't even remembered creating, he saved the little piece of insert paper that went with the book that Rob sent out, saying that if you wanted to buy them in bulk, you could get them for $4 a piece, but you had to include $0.25 for mailing and another $0.24 for California sales tax. Was that book from 1966?

5:48SpeakerNo, bro. Rob is 1977. This is his very first. He did this all by himself, all hand-bladed. All these drawings are his. This is his drawing on the front cover. All of the designs inside of it are his hand drawing designs. I mean, he was such a stoner. Dude, think about that. Before he had the camera, before he was just like, I just love this shit. Dude, this text he put in here was fixed text that he had to like scrape on.

6:16SpeakerHe like put it in and then like he like transferred the text. He hand drew the things and then did the transfer text to make it look super professional. That's incredible, dude.

6:25Etienne FontanI couldn't believe it, man.

6:27SpeakerAnd the other book I found was from 1968. And Rob said he thinks that is the oldest grow book ever. He doesn't know of one Western civilization grow cannabis book that precedes it. And that 1968 was a second printing, but I wrote to Sam the Skunk Man, and Sam said that he has the same one. So he only has the second printing as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah, if anyone has the first printing of that, I would really love to see it, really.

6:57BubblemanThere you go. Well, you know there's 15,000 people that just watched what you said in the next week. Hopefully one of them will get back to you.

7:06SpeakerNo, no, it's true. You know what, actually one of the reasons I'm up so early, man, is because, you know, after doing this with you for coming on almost a year in a bit of time here, I've been so impressed with the amount of feedback that people have come with, just like really positive and interesting questions, thoughtful stuff. And bringing on Mel Frank and Rob and Ben and others really kind of inspired me to try to organize some of these guys.

7:32SpeakerAnd I am going to start publishing HempXXX as a magazine now. And anyone listening that, like, thinks they have bomb photos or great articles to write can actually get a hold of me, just info at hemp.xxx. And the goal is to not be another marijuana magazine. The goal is to really put together high quality information that can stand the test of time, that can be insightful and useful to the readers, to be something that you really, really read cover to cover.

7:58SpeakerAnd, you know, and the other goal I have for this is to be, in a sense, the first whole cannabis magazine because, like, We were all hamsters and potheads and we all grow and make hash and I just don't think there's ever been one magazine that really covers all the elements of cannabis from nutrition to history, you know, to science, to advances and I think that's really what my goal is to do now.

8:21SpeakerAnd we've got great people, Rob Clark, Bell Frank, you Mark, of course, you know, we've got Kenny, we've got quite a few others that have actually signed on already to provide content. And I think we're going to provide some of the most solid content that has ever been really printed.

8:39SpeakerWell, that's fucked up. I can't hear Mark.

8:41Etienne FontanWell, that's exciting, Todd.

8:45SpeakerThe magazine, that is. I was muted.

8:52SpeakerI was coughing so much. I had to talk to our guy that does technical stuff.

8:56BubblemanWell, I was coughing so much I didn't want to interrupt so I muted it and then when I went to go talk, of course, well, I was not live. But yeah, that's a great idea, dude. Obviously, the level of people that you know in the community and the amount of knowledge and how vast it is. You know, the thing about a magazine, and I've watched lots of them come and go in the last 25 years...

9:22BubblemanAnd it's exciting. People have these different sort of plans, you know, oh, I'm going to do this with it or I'm going to do that with it. There's always like different sort of agendas that fuel the magazines. But I think that you will have a very unique sort of position in it that, you know, you're creating this magazine to truly disseminate out information, not to sell a ton of ads and have a seed catalog.

9:47BubblemanNot that that's a bad thing. But it's ideal if it's not the foundation, you know. The dissemination of information is really where you're coming from. You just want people to know stuff.

9:57SpeakerWell, you know, doing hashtags really, you know, when I first started doing stuff with Jack and going to the rallies and such, these were the only places that we could disseminate information was from a microphone and a soapbox. And now that we can sit down in the comfort of our own home and have these conversations and get, you know, In a sense, 10,000 people showing up in front of the stage to listen to you, you know, talk about whatever it is you're talking about, and they don't all have to agree with you, but, you know, to get that much of the community tuning in is huge.

10:25SpeakerI mean, we were never able to get 10,000 people in front of the federal building on Wilshire back 20 years ago when Jack would be giving speeches, and I can only imagine how many more people he could have reached if we, you know, had this opportunity. In 94, you know, this was just a dream back then. The internet, we used to have meetings, Dr. Todd McCurry and others talking about the potential of the internet to help us disseminate this information.

10:47SpeakerWe wouldn't have to go to Kinko's anymore.

10:50Etienne FontanAnd that's a huge, huge... Well, Jack would have to turn his volume down, we know that much for sure. Sure. Gracie, Jack, love him, bless him, was loud and bombastrous and just had a booming, echoing voice before the stroke, that is. And, I mean, he could call you across a rally and you could hear it.

11:15BubblemanAs could his cough.

11:18Etienne FontanYeah.

11:20SpeakerYeah, I miss Jack. He had a lot of passion. You know, one of the reasons I started getting up and speaking is because him and Chris Conrad and Ed Rosenthal would all yell at everybody from the stage, and I always thought, you guys got to be a little nicer or they're not going to listen. My grandmother always used to say, when you speak softer, people listen harder.

11:37SpeakerAnd I always listened to Jack and thought, dude, turn it down just a touch.

11:44Etienne FontanBut Yeah, he inspired me for sure. When him and Debbie came to my university back in 89 and first heard him speak, it was, yeah, I think the first thing I heard, I'm not kidding, Bubble Man, was that cough right as he cleared his throat and then just ripped up the mic that just left everyone going, who is this man? I need to know him. And what is this book he is spouting about?

12:09Etienne FontanEmperor is no clothes thingy.

12:12SpeakerThe book is amazing. I mean, it changed my life forever reading that book. I didn't believe it, believe it or not, at first. I didn't believe half of it.

12:20AaronIt was our hash church. It was.

12:22SpeakerIt was our hash church. That's a great way to put it, Mark. Really, it was. It really was.

12:27BubblemanIt was just crazy. You meet people in the industry. For us, we fascinated that book. We learned that book. Front to back, back to front, any quote in it, we could, you know, you could hear it. If someone misquoted something, we're like, oh, that's actually not the accurate quote. It says this, and it's actually on page 47 if you open up the book. Like, we were really gung fucking ho on this book and this guy.

12:52BubblemanI mean, 100%, I can tell you that hemp got grown in the prairies because of that book. That book lit the fire under all these different people that were like, what? How could this be true? How did we not know this? How do we live in a place that has millions of usable acres? Our farmers are fucking starving. The government is subsidizing the cost of wheat per acre.

13:16BubblemanWe're feeding the world's grain to cows and we just don't know about this plant? It was a blessing. It has been a huge blessing in the prairies of Manitoba and Ontario and Saskatchewan. Just to be able to grow this crop and they're not even really monetizing in an exponential way the way hemp would offer. They're more like monetizing on a very small perspective of it. They are, A, cleaning their soil through phytoremediation whether they realize it or not every time they grow a crop.

13:49BubblemanAs long as the nitrogen from the leaf is redded back into the soil, mixed back into the soil, it re-nitrogenizes and Thank you so much for joining us.

14:10BubblemanReally see an influx in, like it's amazing, you got a guy like.

14:17SpeakerIt's an organic, it's an organic rate. What you're doing is you're capitalizing off of the easiest thing to harvest, which is initially the proteins, the seed. And you guys, if it wasn't for you, Whole Foods would have no No hemp seed protein and stuff. The next thing is going to be paper and the next thing after that is going to be fiber just because of the cost of the industry to spool up.

14:39BubblemanIt's been 20 years here. We didn't just start growing hemp yesterday. We've been growing it for 20 years. So all I'm saying is we need a guy like Elon Musk who's just like, I'm just going to invest billions of dollars into this infrastructure. The guy almost goes bankrupt but he will not not believe in his vision and I just wish that the cannabis community And we've seen a few of these kind of billionaire guys stand up and be like, we need to legalize drugs, or they say a couple of cool things, but none of them are really like, I'm going to invest $3 billion into hemp industry.

15:13BubblemanI mean, Ben is the closest, and he's doing it with millions. But unfortunately, we need either many hundreds of Benz, or we need a serious player to come in and infuse this industry with billionaires.

15:27Etienne FontanJust three billion isn't much of an industry. Sorry.

15:30BubblemanIt's a great start, though.

15:31Etienne FontanLook at the electric cars. You need multiple mills for multiple productions. Let's not be so aggressive, Mr. ATN. I looked at retooling actually sugarcane factories because I looked at a crop that was 13 to 15 feet with a large stock which sugarcane is. And I grew up in sugarcane factories in sugarcane country in Louisiana. So we did a retooling that we looked at modern machinery. It would cost about $100 million by I think it was 1997's time to retool those sugarcane factories into processing hemp.

16:12Etienne FontanAnd that's already an existing factory with the pencil strength and steel to do so. And those are so small and so marginalized in a small part of the United States. There's no sugar growing up in Canada or anything like that. So then you have to, then it almost turns into then a billion dollars then from the beginning just for a mill. And that's just one particular mill.

16:36Etienne FontanThat's not including, you know, Thank you for joining us.

17:01Etienne FontanThank you for joining us.

17:27Etienne FontanA country in Europe again because they were forward thinking and I think there's got to be someone in Canada who is forward thinking that is going to say, okay, I'll take the paper out of this. I'll be the paper guy. Somebody's going to be like, all right, I'll invest in all the fiber to make the fiber possible. There's got to be multiple of these people to come out.

17:47Etienne FontanAs much as I want to believe one guy, there's so much potential and I got to credit you guys at least. You found a market for it. Ben struggled for a long time in Europe getting a market, but fortunately, Germans had a market for the protein that you've supplanted already the German hemp in the world market, especially over here in North America for protein. So even that change is significant in the growth of the industry, but it's still not enough.

18:17Etienne FontanI can find hemp seed oil, but I can't find hemp seed pills and stuff like that, even in my groceries and stuff like that yet. You know, you can only get it in the raw oil form in a large container still, and you know, depending on how that process, or once you open it, it can go rancid pretty quick.

18:33BubblemanOh, it does go rancid pretty quick.

18:34Etienne FontanSo there needs to be, why doesn't, you know, these large companies, Crisco or anything, look into stabilizing hemp seed oil better, like 3M has done with their products, you know. Those large industries also need to come in and look at how to improve because there's got to be a way to stabilize as well as to keep it from going rancid. They do that with Graveseed Oil. They do it with various others.

18:58Etienne FontanIt's just we don't have enough volume yet to cause those industries to go, hey, we need to start playing in this field. We're starting to, but we know that International Harvester and John Deere And then we'll start making machinery until there's a certain amount of millions of acres that are being grown of our product. They won't even look at it. So it's left currently, right now, I know multiple people who are making decorticators and other things currently in small shops to the U.S. and Canadian market because they're just trying to find their niche before the John Deere's and the International Harvesters come in.

19:35Etienne FontanBecause there's still that time in between it's a small crop and because it's going to become a huge crop, and when it becomes a huge crop, then somebody has a chance to cut a niche for themselves out to become the next international harvester, the next John Deere like Gardella did for

19:53BubblemanIt's been 20 years, dude. We didn't start this yesterday. We've been doing it for 20 years, and all we got out of it was food.

20:01SpeakerYeah, but you know what, Mark? The one thing it is is it hasn't been 20 clean years. It's been very convoluted. When Woody was making investments in the 90s into hemp companies in Canada, he's one of the guys that lost his shit because the DEA held up a shipment of the hemp seed coming into North America. It became a very famous HIA case. Unfortunately, guys like him, investors early on, got fried.

20:26SpeakerI know he lost millions of fucking dollars trying to be a good deed doer. He invested in paper companies. He invested in nutrition companies. He invested in fucking hiking shoes, backpacks. He tried to really, really help people in the hemp industry. Unfortunately, he joked that the only thing he ever got a return on was my fucking bond.

20:48BubblemanYeah, he sure loved all the alternative sort of fabrics and fibers. I remember him coming into my shop one time and seeing my manufacturer, Mark Rose, is all about nettle. He makes all these different products out of nettle, and nettle's unique in a sense because it's It's not even planted. It's not even an agricultural product. It's collected wild out of the mountains, you know, strapped on their backs and, you know, walked three to five days through the mountains, put onto the river stone and whacked with the mallet, put on the eight-foot backstrap loom and fiberized.

21:19BubblemanCrazy shit, but Woody bought, like, so much of it. It used to sit at my store. No one was buying this shit. And Woody came in and was just like, I'll take three pairs of pants, two of those shirts, I want the hat, I want... He was wearing all stinging metal and he was just He was so happy about it. I was like, man, you really, like, legitimately love this shit.

21:37BubblemanLike, the alternative, the safe, the better way. It was nice to meet you.

21:42SpeakerIt hasn't changed at all. Good morning, Horatio. Morning, Jordan. Good to see someone getting up later than me. Oh, I'm up. I just can't move.

21:59BubblemanOh, really?

21:59SpeakerOne of those days? I, me and my wife did that thing where I'm like, let's try some Terps and eat them. And then she went to sleep, so she woke up high. And then, like, if she woke up high, nobody wakes up. So, everything's gone to hell this morning. I'm just getting my coffee.

22:18BubblemanNo worries, I'm just, oh, here we go. Seeking out the troll. Ah, the troll. Goodbye, troll. Duncan Teague. Why do people want to be mean? I kind of, uh, I just don't understand it. I think maybe the world is miserable. I think the world is maybe not puffing good resin. Is this possibly a thing that's happening out there? Because I just don't know. I see people... I think that's a new sticker, bro.

22:41BubblemanPuff more, bitch less. Puff more, bitch less. I like it because it is pretty accurate in the sense that When you see someone bitching and getting so upset, you just got to think that, man, if I just puffed a nice bowl of something with that person, I suspect they would be happy. They would be happier.

23:00Etienne FontanWell, that comes from a sticker we used to have on our van that used to say, fuck more, bitch less, because Apparently people need not only just some THC release, sometimes they need some other release to make them feel a little better too, so.

23:15BubblemanI gotcha, I gotcha. Alright, well we're not going to be doing that on Hash Church, but we will bitch less.

23:22SpeakerI want to say this though, like everybody that's already started to write me, please let me have until the afternoon to write you back, because it's going to be impossible for me to write you back while I'm doing Hash Church. Just FYI.

23:36SpeakerYeah, you know man, we have a really active community and that's one of the things that motivated me about this. I think a lot of people really care about trying to learn shit and I think that that is really what, you know, we don't have, we can't go to school, we can't go to college and learn this. You can't go pick up, you know, cannabis botany in any of the major universities or anything right now.

23:56SpeakerAnd the only way we're really going to learn is from each other. I think that's why I have such respect and admiration for Mel Frank and Rod Clark. And others that I have learned so very, very much really good and practical information from. Not just people that have put out shit that looked like they copied and pasted it out of a tomato growing book, but like really quality cannabis information that was, you know, written from a place of experience and not a place of opportunity.

24:24Etienne FontanRight, and they've held that torch and have published independently for decades to get that information out in a very small niche Thank you so much for joining us.

25:03Etienne FontanAnd, you know, who are passionate people who care about cannabis. They're not just, you know, some accidental stoner. It's like when we would pick up the Emperor Wears No Clothes back in the day. We became dedicated. We took it around everywhere. It became our Kinko's copy. It became, you know, I used to annoy him. I had a girlfriend break up with me because all I would do is talk about this damn Jack Herrera book at every goddamn party and this hemp pot stuff and How dare you get the fuck out of here and, you know, shut up about that stuff.

25:35Etienne FontanWhy do you care about it?

25:38SpeakerYou are a little bit preachy about it, though.

25:40Etienne FontanWell, yeah, I have told you.

25:44SpeakerI mean, I'm your friend and all, but you haven't shut up in like 22 years I've met you, and you're still going on and on, so she could have had a little solid there. I'm not trying to take her side or anything.

25:55Etienne FontanIt was that good a book. It was better than the fucking Bible.

25:59SpeakerDude, I had a girlfriend too. Her name was Elisa. She hated it. She's like, you're trying to turn hemp into penicillin. It's not.

26:05BubblemanI've had the same girlfriend-wife since I started this, and she is awesome, supportive, amazing, and my queen. And you're live.

26:17SpeakerAw, shout out to these people, man. I like that, Mark. That was really cool. Yeah, it's the truth. I love you, dude. You're so sweet. You're even a diplomat when you're sitting at home with your wife's family.

26:26BubblemanMy wife's not at the house right now. She took the baby and they went to Whole Foods for breakfast, but... I'm sure she'll be back in the near future. Hey, I want to welcome Aaron into the room, Mr. Aaron Waight, fellow bubble ambassador who has really kind of inspired me over the last course of the year. He only really sort of came across my radar in the last maybe year or two.

26:48BubblemanAnd he just started getting into things. He was making bubble, and then his bubble got real good, and then his photos got real good, and then he was making killer rosin, and then he was making killer dry sift. And then he posted a picture one day of himself next to his old picture of himself, and it looked like someone had put like a pump on his foot and just like pumped him up.

27:08BubblemanHe must have weighed like 350 pounds or something. He was just huge. You can see he's a fairly skinny fellow now. And he's just kind of all around impressed me for a person that has taken control of his life and literally, instead of being envious, has used inspiration to fuel his journey. And so I wanted to welcome him into the room. And yeah, fuck, how you doing, buddy?

27:34BubblemanAre you there? Well, maybe he got frozen up. We'll have to see him come back there. He's on Instagram as Aaron... Wait, I believe that's his name on Facebook as well. And yeah, you guys should check him out for sure. Hopefully he gets back in here right away and he can talk to us because he does kind of have a pretty inspirational story. And I love people that are able to not only learn the art form of making great hash, but But to me, there's a part that also involves learning great photography.

28:08BubblemanBecause there's just this missed opportunity if you have this beautiful product and you want to share it with the world. And to me, social media has really, I mean, it's stepped up photography as a whole. It's gotten photographers excited again, although there is a very much so, almost a division among photographers, much the way we have it in our community with legal growers and smaller dispensaries right now.

28:32BubblemanYou have Photographers who feel that a photographer is someone that takes pictures with a camera and not a phone and all these people who think they're photographers because they have phones now but at the same time it's that same energy that has gotten photography so exciting for everyone and in being able to share your product whether it be a bud or a piece of hash or a melting little Chunk of oil on a dab nail.

28:57BubblemanTo me, it's a big, big part of it, being able to get to that next level. Now, obviously, we can't all be National Geographic photographers, but, you know, you'd be pretty impressed with what the average Joe can do when they just learn the simple basics of photography and learn how to sort of put a shot together. So that was my thought on that. Hopefully... Go composition! Go composition!

29:24BubblemanYou know, it's pretty neat. You just take a bunch of bad shots, just like anything. You just take a bunch of bad shots, and then suddenly, you're taking a bunch of good shots. At least that's how it worked for me.

29:35Etienne FontanAnd the Fibonacci principle, don't forget that one.

29:38BubblemanAh yes, never forget the Fibonacci or the golden mean. Exactly. The golden meme. These are all things that people will be Googling right now, which is, we are in an incredible time when you can listen to a group of people just babble on about things, and if something comes across your ear that you don't exactly like, what did he just say? The fibba what? Fibonacci. Google it up.

30:03BubblemanYes, very cool. Very fractally.

30:09BubblemanIsn't it funny how we look at buds like women? Well, they are females. At least all my buds are. Some of those weird buds with the banana.

30:18SpeakerDid you know one interesting little thing that Rob brought up yesterday when we were talking? He said that only 10% of plants actually are dioecious. Almost 90% are mono-ecious, meaning they have the sex on both plants. He says in then, only about 1% of the plants are dioecious, sex in a way similar to humans, which is cannabis. And I did not realize how rare, if you will, the behavior of cannabis was in the plant kingdom.

30:48BubblemanWow. Yeah, they definitely, they got the men and the women, the kings and the queens, as they call them in Jamaica. Hey, welcome back, Aaron. Welcome, Chris Bennett. How's it going, brother? It's going pretty good. I had just introduced Aaron. I gave him this incredible introduction, and then he was all frozen, and he couldn't say hello. Interwebs. Yeah, it's the interwebs. No, the tubes are clogged. The tubes are clogged.

31:14BubblemanYeah, it's the interwebs. How are you doing, Chris?

31:16Etienne FontanI clogged those tubes. Aaron, I see you're there. Can you speak?

31:22BubblemanNo. Frozen. Hey, it's always the new guy. Remember Lester the first time he came in?

31:31SpeakerI told you we should do a test. We've got to start doing test runs, man. What's up?

31:36BubblemanWell, you know, we do. You're right. There's no doubt about it. But in the meantime, I'm blowing some smoke towards the Vatican.

31:44SpeakerWhat favorite smoke are you blowing? The one good thing about this show is if anything technically goes wrong, we all just do a bong hit.

31:55Etienne FontanYes, exactly. When it goes silent, bong.

32:03Etienne FontanWhat are you puffing on today, Todd?

32:11SpeakerNo, he's muted.

32:14SpeakerIt's the we. What do you call it? Chimera left me some flowers. And like anyone, I'm burning the evidence. What kind of flowers? It's called I Don't Know from a greenhouse somewhere. Also, I don't know. I'll tell you. I can say that it's really tasty. That I do know.

32:35BubblemanWell, when I first met Chimera, he was working in a head shop in Ottawa. He was really young. And I remember he was like, yeah, I'm starting a seed company. It was kind of an overgrow dot thing that we met through. And the first time I ran his material, and it was C4. And I was with my friend who used to go by the name Reggie the Roddy.

32:54BubblemanAnd he was in Winnipeg. And I had actually met him through the internet as well. And he was like, yeah, come on over and we'll make this hash. I have some of Chimera's C4. We made this C4, turned it into the most just beautiful, creamy bubble, like right when we pull the bags, you know right away, it's like, oh my God, this is going to be good.

33:12BubblemanAnd so we make this hash and we end up, you know, finger pressing out a little patty and kind of like playing with it a little bit just to squeeze as much water, like a very, a couple of rips each type of thing, just to try the flavor, even though it's wet, we're doing it. This was like 15 years ago. And the potency of that C4, he could not have named it any better.

33:35BubblemanIt literally blew the backs of our heads off. We had just fucking met. And we were all getting yappy and making hash together. And then all of a sudden we got like what I would call a little bit two-stoned. And we were just sitting there literally like not talking to one another. So on the brink. I don't even know what, you know, like that feeling of like I need to go like run like a 500 meter or maybe go home, have a shower and change my clothes.

34:00BubblemanAll the strange thoughts that go through someone's mind when they're extremely stoned. All these thoughts went through my mind and that was my first experience with the Chimera C4 as Bubble. Holy shit, I'm not, that is a strain that if you want, like John Burfellow, who uses it for the pain and always wants the strongest, most narcotic-like hitting strain, I would check out the C4, because that is some seriously strong cannabis.

34:28SpeakerWell, I'll say I really loved having this company. I came to spend some time with Rob and I, and he's just a treasure trove of really great information. He is fucking so well-read, so well-versed. I was really impressed. I mean, it was nice having him on Ash Church, but even better having him here, just able to get download after download of information. Every question I had, he had great answers to.

34:50BubblemanYou've been having some great people over there lately. It was nice to see all of you guys the other day.

34:55SpeakerIt's funny, but you know what? Part of what it is is, you know, this is... Turning into an editorial team, and I've been quizzing the best people I can, saying, you know, what should we talk about and stuff, and I think we are going to be able to bring some of the best quality information from around the world. You know, one of the reasons is because back in 95, I pre-printed an article about hashish in my first magazine, and it was from Rob pre-hashish coming out, and it was so enlightening to me, I couldn't believe it, and then 14 years later in 2009, I I reprinted the article, and I got just as much feedback from people that had never been exposed to any of the history of information in that article.

35:34SpeakerAnd there it was, 14 years later, as fresh as it was, the first day Rob handed it to me, because there's just been that lack of opportunity for people to find this information, you know, available easily.

35:47BubblemanBasically, what you want to do is you want to print Hash Church.

35:51SpeakerIn a sense, it's going to be deeper and longer and better. Guys like Chris can long-form writing. A lot of what I want to do is digital downloads now so people can tell a longer story. I'm still going to do it as a print run too, but we're going to work that out because I just think that Now that we don't have the same limitations we had before, which is how thick is the book, how much is it going to cost to print, I think that we can start really focusing on what's the best information, who's the best person to get to write it, who's got the best photographs of it, and how can we explain it in a way that people understand it.

36:26SpeakerBecause that's really my goal. Not to sound like the smartest kid in the room, but to actually say it in a way that people can absorb it and apply it and have it help their life.

36:35BubblemanWell, right, because it's versus getting the best person to write that particular story versus who do we know, which is a much more limiting aspect of getting that right person to write that story.

36:52SpeakerAnd this is where I think that we can do that. We can interview great people. We can bring inspiration to people. We can actually do a really good job of getting very quality information to people and not just be all the junk food. I mean, no dissing all these different magazines that are coming up, but a lot of them look like short attention span theater. You know, it's college level humor.

37:11SpeakerIt's kind of, there's not a whole lot of depth there. It's from people you've never heard about that have no experience in the industry. And that's really what I feel like this is where this is needed. Like, Guys like Mel Frank and Rob and others are assets to us. I mean, they have spent half a century almost studying this plant and demonstrably putting out books and information, not just pretending like 30 years ago they were the guy that invented fucking super silver or whatever, but these guys have books to stand on that proves that they were really on the scene doing the work, doing the jobs.

37:46SpeakerAnd this is the kind of stuff I want to collect because There are a lot of good people on this planet that have spent a lot of time, and I think we should call on them to share their information and their, if you will, their story.

38:01BubblemanWell, I've got to apologize to Mark Scaldone. I don't know how I forgot about him, of all people, but I forgot to send him the link today. Man, I can't remember. Hey, welcome back, Aaron. Is your computer working? Uh-oh. He's going to go knock on his neighbor's door now. Frozen up. I like he's got the cat. Chris has got the bird. Wow. Right as I said bird, your bird just took like a steamer.

38:26BubblemanBoom. Right behind you. Dropped fast. It was all good. He might be making hash over there. You never know what's going on.

38:34AaronHe says poo, poo, poo before he poops most of the time.

38:37BubblemanDoes he? Yeah. Oh my God, dude. That must make you chuckle. Yeah, for sure. So what's new and different with Mr. Bennett?

38:46AaronWorking on a new book about cannabis and the occult, going from about Middle Ages, 12th century up to modern times. Lots of material people probably haven't seen before. Cannabis references from these old magical manuscripts like the Picatrix, where a cannabis ointment is, oh, cannabis incense. It's actually a reference in that one. It talks about cannabis resins, a large amount of it used in a magical incense, and then in the Sephiraziel.

39:15AaronA cannabis ointment used with magical mirrors. And then following that through with later people like Francois Rabelais, the 15th century monk and bachelor of medicine who was also into alchemy and stuff. And he incorporated all these cannabis references as the Herd Pantagruelian in his book Gargantuan Pantagruel, which made a mockery of church and state. And the cannabis chapters were banned for many years and still don't appear in some modern editions.

39:44AaronAnd then up to people like Aleister Crowley and Blavatsky that were all very into hashish. Cannabis, there wouldn't be magic in the occult if it hadn't been for cannabis, I would say, you know, and other substances as well.

39:57BubblemanWow, that's awesome. You know, halfway through saying what you were saying, it almost sounded like you were speaking another language.

40:05AaronI hope it wasn't like that for everybody.

40:08BubblemanWell, I'm five bong rips into the day, so it could just be me. 873 people watching, though. We could ask them, did you guys catch that? That sounds interesting, dude. I mean, when you said occult, obviously my limited knowledge of the occult, I thought of Aleister Crowley right away as well. That's great that you're covering all these other fellows that... Well, just like a longer, deeper history of cannabis that's obviously, it's been there, it's just kind of needing to be unveiled.

40:36AaronAbsolutely. There's always so much in that area. There's an incredible history to this plant.

40:42BubblemanDo you have an Instagram, Chris? No. Oh, okay. Someone asked what your Instagram was previously. Thank you for watching.

41:08BubblemanIt's hard to create the magic on the account if the person who is the name behind the account isn't actually answering the odd question or posting and responding.

41:18SpeakerI will say this, so Rob's going to, you know, it's a concerted effort to get him to do it. But he's getting on it, honestly. He's warming to all this new technology thing, these fancy cell phones and stuff. Okay. Yeah, we're going to put more up and everything, and I think he'll take more of a role too. You remember, he's always been like a travel blogger anyway, so.

41:40BubblemanOh my God, yeah. That's why when he, and he's, I mean, it would be, I try to explain it to him from the perspective of like, think of the cell phone as like when you got the laptop. Like, no more typewriters, like, being able to just like, print, like, Just hammer shit out on your laptop? Like, that's nice.

41:58SpeakerJust think of the views he sees every week with the amount of moving he does. He could just upload the photography of a snapshot of every one of those crazy mountains he must go up on a bus.

42:10BubblemanWell, I'll say one thing about Rob. He is very dedicated to his art form. When I went on a little family vacation with the skunk man and his wife, and Rob came as well and stayed with us in the house, In Negril, he worked so hard on that, his latest book there, The Evolution of Hemp, The Evolution of Cannabis, sorry, just a little stoned here, Cannabis Evolution.

42:35BubblemanAnyway, he worked on that book like every day. Sam and I were out having fun and doing fun things, and it was like, hey, you want to come do this? And he was just like, I'm just going to work on my book, just going to work on this book. It's like, man, you've been working on that book for like 16 years, like just come have some, let's just go do a little...

42:50SpeakerNow he's having fun. Book's done. Now he's having fun.

42:52BubblemanDude, and the book looks great. And it's kind of neat for me to be able to look at that book and read through it and be like, man, like, he really, when he, he might have put a lot of years into that book, but it was like he put a lot of time and energy into that book is what he put into.

43:06SpeakerDude, 350,000 words.

43:08BubblemanProbably all over the world, too. I would love to see the country list that he wrote that book in. He should include that in some of his books because it really shows the amount of travel that that man does. Travel's not easy, especially on that level. Constance. Impressed me anyway. That's fantastic. That's a fantastic book.

43:30SpeakerI hope we see more and more publishing around cannabis. I mean, this is information that has been repressed and suppressed for decades and decades now, and we can't get enough of it. You know, people that are listening, I mean... We need to support these kind of old authors. I mean, guys like, you know, not that you're old, Chris, don't take this wrong, but you guys that have been actually, you know, really trumpeting truth for decades really need a little support here because the information you're putting out is really relevant to us going forward with a knowledge of what we've been through.

44:08SpeakerAnd there's nothing more important than knowing just where you went if you want to get out of a muddy situation, which I believe we all do.

44:16AaronI think my first magazine article might have even been in your Dutch magazine when you were in Holland there back in the early 90s. Wow, 95? I can grab it and look, you know, Chris? Yeah, yeah, there was an article about green gold in there, I think.

44:31SpeakerGreen gold? But it was pretty early, you know, like a long time. Yeah, I kind of caught the magazine bug back then, but the guy that I got the job for wanted to use the thing as a vehicle to sell seeds to The entire world, including the United States, you put on the back. And at the time, I just didn't want to become another Neville who was wanted by the American government and unable to step into an international airport.

44:54SpeakerSo I quit my job and told them to fucking stuff it. And I never regretted doing that. This has been a better journey. But, you know, I still think that, you know, there's a... A huge need for information. This is why I think people are tuning into this. People want to learn. You can't pick up a book and learn the stuff we're talking about. It's not as current as what's going on right now.

45:17SpeakerBy the time a book is printed, it's pretty much history.

45:21BubblemanYeah, we've got to get people on the fresh, fresh. I mean, if there's 50,000 commercial products that can be made out of hemp, well, then there's 50,000 different topics that you could write about. There's so many different aspects of... We need books on the endocannabinoid system. We need books on, you know, all sorts of different topics. Cannabis is so multi-layered that it's just, I can't think of another plant that you could write more about.

45:49BubblemanSo many different vast topics from like, you could just be writing about essential amino acid production and the seed. Probably do a whole PhD on that, maybe two.

45:59AaronYou know, I've got a question for a bunch of hash experts. I asked it on the Facebook page as well. I've been looking at alchemy, medieval alchemy, where there was a lot of extraction and stuff going on of all sorts of metals and plants and other things. And there's also, I've come across a number of different alchemists, like Rabelais, who was an alchemist. I'm going to describe themselves as the extractor of the fifth essence and Pascal Beverly Randolph, who lived in the 19th century, who claimed to have extracted two different acting extracts out of cannabis.

46:34AaronIt sounds a lot like almost like CBD and THC, the way he describes the differences. I'm wondering, because it would have been hard to get in Europe anyways, hashish from the Middle East and other places. Do you think it's possible with the right extraction process to extract something usable out of like 5, 6% THC cannabis? What do you think? With old alchemy equipment, you know what I mean?

47:03AaronThey had a lot of different stuff, a lot of different techniques and stuff like that, but what would it take to get something usable out of a… Almost nothing, because if you don't have any in your system, you're going to be very sensitive to it.

47:15SpeakerI used to say when I was in prison that I micro-dosed, because obviously I wasn't getting fatties to pop on while I sat in my cell. I would get these little mini… I'd get hot, and I'd roll the smallest little joints that were really like three puffs long. And because, you know, it's not like you want to sit around waiting to get busted smoking weed in prison.

47:34SpeakerBut it still affected me. Like, when I would walk away after three puffs, I felt it. Like, I don't want to, you know, it's weird. I almost had moments where I feel like I was higher off less-er than I do when I just constantly do dabs and puff all day because now I don't really feel the effect like I would feel the effect. And You know, microdosing almost was more psychedelic, I think, in some ways than being the heavy smoker that I am today.

48:03SpeakerDid you hold it in more? I've always kind of argued with Lester Grinspoon, Dr. Lester Grinspoon. He always basically wanted me to exhale as quickly as possible. And I was like, no way, you've got to hold it. He's like, no, you don't have to hold it. And I was like, there has to be absorption. He's like, no, no. And I don't know. So we always got into it.

48:22SpeakerAnd I... I don't know, Mark, Mr. Scaldone, what's up? Hold our hits, don't hold our hits, what's the dealio? Hold it a second before you answer.

48:31Etienne FontanTodd, did you just, so you held it in longer as opposed to just inhale, exhale because you had such... Of course, and how much weed?

48:38SpeakerWhat do you fucking think I did? I've always advocated for holding your breath.

48:41Etienne FontanLack of oxygen is a good buzz too, by the way. I just thought clarification, that's it. Carry on, Mark.

48:49SpeakerGood morning, everyone. I was out shoveling the driveway. We have lots of snow here in Pennsylvania, so sorry for being late. Let me kick in a little. Greetings from California. It was sunny out today. Yeah, well, we got about two and a half feet of the white stuff out here. We're in the center of the bullseye, southeastern PA. We totally got nailed. But fortunately for me, I have a neighbor with a snowblower.

49:14SpeakerYeah, so I would think that the longer you hold it in, because, again, they're fat-soluble molecules, and it's going to take some time for it, again, to sort of penetrate through the mucosa. And so I would just think that the longer you hold it in, the higher you're going to get. But I don't know. I've gotten a lot of pushback on that over the years.

49:36SpeakerAnd for the record, let me just say, I'm not going to argue that I think Dr. Grinspoon is a lot smarter than me. And me too. But I mean, I tend to call them hippie hits, right? A hippie hit you hold in as long as you can.

49:50BubblemanWell, regardless, a bioassay is always going to be based on your own opinion, not what someone tells you.

49:57Etienne FontanRight.

49:57BubblemanOkay.

49:57Etienne FontanWell, I mean, we were taught that, you know, there's science behind the, you know, just inhale, exhale, you get 90% of what you get on the initial inhale. But, you know, as Todd has said, you know, it all depends on, you know, concentration. You know, you see these kids taking these 20-gram hits. There's no way they're getting all those 20 grams in that hit. There's no way the, you know...

50:20Etienne FontanRight.

50:20SpeakerIt makes sense just for the number of receptors. It makes sense to inhale through the mouth like we all inhale, but exhale through the nose because it's covering more of the mucosa if it goes through the nose, right? So if you inhale through the airway and you breathe in your lungs and then you exhale through the nose, you're just covering more ground, I guess, in the body.

50:45SpeakerMaybe on the mouth.

50:45Etienne FontanDr. More sites, more receptor sites.

50:48SpeakerYeah, you would think so. You're covering more ground inside the body, so it's giving it more of an opportunity to absorb into the system, right? I got hash on my mouse, like literally all over. I have hash on everything. I don't think there's anything I own that doesn't have a drop of oil on it. Remember when we used to have holes in our shirt from seeds? Now we have fucking drops on our shirt from oil.

51:19BubblemanYou should see the carpet around my chair. When I had my gallery, The Melting Point, I used to hire this guy to come clean the floors. And when he cleaned around my desk, you'd just see him scrubbing and picking with his nail. And he's like, you'd hear him under his breath going, it's like some kind of a resin. And it was just like damn near impossible for him to clean because it was literally like not just me, it was like so many people would sit around that desk and puff that at any given time there was like 5 to 10 grams of hash in single dabs hits like squished down onto the hardwood floors.

51:52SpeakerSo do you Canadians hire Americans to do the cleaning and pick the fruit?

51:58BubblemanNo, this was, I don't know where he was from. He was just a local kind of dude on the street that was walking around and didn't have anywhere to go or whatever. We always tried to give those guys jobs and like help them out a little bit. I should give a shout out to DMACC who passed away this last week, I believe in a hiking or ski accident.

52:18BubblemanHe was a glassblower in the community. On Facebook, I had him on there for a while, and so he has passed away, and I wanted to give him and his whole crew and family a shout-out, and we're real sorry to hear that, as well as a longtime friend of mine that I grew up with in Manitoba who moved out to Vancouver and spent a lot of time in Whistler, which was Trevor Kenny.

52:38BubblemanI wanted to give Trevor a shout-out and say, see you on the other side, brother. Sorry you had to go so soon. And maybe we'll blow a hoot for those guys.

52:52Etienne FontanDeepest condolences. We'll blow him some smoke.

52:55SpeakerMm-hmm. Yeah. You know something? Hey, Aaron, we can see you. Can we hear you now, Aaron? I hope you can hear me. Wow, look at that. We're having good...

53:09BubblemanYou know, some hits for some fallen brothers right now. DMACC and Trevor Kenny, both passed away in the last week or two, so we're going to hit those guys up. And then we want to hear from you, dude. I gave you such a beautiful introduction. It was like a bummer.

53:22SpeakerI know. Thank you.

53:24BubblemanFrozen on the screen. All right, let's have a bowl and then we'll hear from Aaron. Aaron.

53:43SpeakerWhile you're all quiet, I love this headline. 80% of cannabis users give up prescription drugs. That is a great article. I think it's true. I barely ever take even an aspirin myself.

53:57BubblemanYeah, no, exactly. Well, there's something about the relationship with cannabis, too, that just sort of teaches you cannabis is good. Pharmaceutical is bad.

54:10Etienne FontanWell, it's our endocannabinoid system has basically overrun our mind and told us this works.

54:16SpeakerRight. Subconsciously has told our conscious self, dude, lay off the pills.

54:20BubblemanMaybe this could lead us into our conversation with Aaron, because I believe he might have been a bit of a pharma guy back in the day.

54:27SpeakerI was. It wasn't anything that I ever abused, though. It was just I had severe back pain, and I had continuous failed back surgeries for my back pain, and my doctors just convinced me that that was going to be the rest of my life is popping pills. And the last appointment I had with my pain specialist, he said my last option with him was a surgically implanted morphine pump.

54:57SpeakerWhat pills were you on, Aaron? Can I ask, please? What pills were you on? What pills were you on? Oh, I was on over a dozen for most of a decade. Let's see, the big ones were Oxycontin, Roxycodone, Xanaflex. There was a whole string that kind of go together once you get on the Oxycodone because it destroys your stomach, destroys your mood, so they have to put you on antidepressants.

55:27SpeakerSo I was on antidepressants, anti-anxieties. So you're taking multiple pills at once. You're taking something for your back pain, but also these other pills all simultaneously. How many pills were you taking in one dose? Up to a dozen in one dose. Over 30 or 40 pills in a day sometimes. You know, that is unethical for a physician to prescribe A dozen medicines to a single patient. You know that any one of those two medicines could have deleterious and synergistic interactions, and it's actually under law they're supposed to let you know what interactions two can have.

56:10SpeakerImagine a dozen. I mean, this is just, In a Petri dish, your body. I know. As Reverend Todd would say, your doctor is practicing medicine, and you are the laboratory. Yep. So Aaron, were you quite big at this point in time? Well, I mean, I've always kind of been a big guy my whole life. I probably started my, when I had the injury, I was probably about 220.

56:41SpeakerBut after a decade of not being able to move off my couch and taking pharmaceuticals, Which also leads into, if I'm on pharmaceuticals and in pain and kind of brain dead from the drugs, I'm not going to seek out very good food to eat. So I was eating crap food through all of this, and, you know, I just, my health was in the toilet. I couldn't move at all.

57:09SpeakerActually, I am high, so I just lost weight. My train of thought. What was the question again?

57:14BubblemanNo, you were just telling your story and you were basically telling us about taking all the different pills and how, I guess you're leading up to how you got turned on to cannabis and what sort of transformation occurred once that happened.

57:30Etienne FontanAaron, if you were couch bound for a while due to your medications, were you able to be a full functioning member of society or were you limited in your ability to function due to the

57:42SpeakerI pretty much dropped off the planet because I couldn't go out and hang out with friends anymore. Because I couldn't even take care of my own house, my friends stopped coming over. It became like a little hoarder's pit. And it still kind of is because I've been too busy taking care of cannabis stuff to clean up all that old drug user's mess. But I'm getting there.

58:08BubblemanAnd so what was the window that cast the light that led you out of this situation and into the situation that you're in today using cannabis and clearly being a lot healthier?

58:22SpeakerIt's actually a little bit silly because right around the same time that my doctor gave me that option for the morphine pump, I posted jokingly on Facebook, hey, does anybody have any pot? And one of my old friends from church said, Messaged me and said, hey, were you serious? Did you want to try some pot? And I said, sure, why not? And she's a cannabis user at this point?

58:49SpeakerI had tried it once in my life. Didn't really get anything from it and didn't think anything more of it. Not as a positive or a negative. It was just like, eh. Wow. So this old friend drove over and dropped off a little baggie for me and I laid on my couch for about four hours without any significant pain and decided that I wasn't going to go back to my pain specialist.

59:17SpeakerI think within a couple weeks I had gone to get my registration for my card and I had just won a settlement with the workers' comp people so I had a big Bank account and I tried pretty much all the cannabis that Detroit had to offer.

1:00:00SpeakerHeavy Ice RX. Aaron, you're located in Michigan, did you say? Yes, I am. About an hour north of Detroit. Oh, whereabouts? Oakland Township. Oh, right on. That's where my in-laws live. Oh, yeah? The belly of the beast for all the evil cannabis torturers of patients here at Yes, so what's the, I mean, typically Oakland County is very, very Republican, conservative. What's the environment now there, now that the law in Michigan, which I think is one of the better laws here in the states, how are things going in Michigan?

1:00:41SpeakerWell, extracts and edibles were never defined in the law, as I understand it. So it's law enforcement is kind of using that information At their discretion as to whether they want to arrest people or not. They gave me a hard time this summer growing my first major crop outside, complying to the letter of the law and everything, but they decided that they needed to do multiple low helicopter passes all summer, every single week, taking photos.

1:01:15SpeakerAbout seven guys arrived on foot at one point. Was it the county or the state? This was Oakland County. Oakland County, motherfuckers. Yep. And they just, they told me outright that if I didn't let them in to inspect my grow, which is not defined at all in the law, the medical marijuana law, that they would come back really angry with a warrant and tear shit up. So I let them in.

1:01:43SpeakerThey got to see that I was growing one plant over, which was me kind of testing them. And they made me pull it out and they left. But they continued with the helicopter passes. They've been over three times in the last week, and it's the dead of winter. So I don't know if they're watching for people coming and going and buying things, or seeing if my barn's going to explode because I'm making extracts, which is not going to happen.

1:02:11BubblemanThey're afraid. You represent the end of their system. And they certainly don't want more people getting turned on the way you got turned on. And I'm sure you must have probably, someone had asked in the chat room actually, you must have gone through some form of withdrawal after 10 years being on those pills. Oh my gosh, yeah.

1:02:34SpeakerAnd actually I was still, actually when they recommended the morphine pump, they had kind of been, I've been asking them to wean me off of the drugs. So I had already gone off of the OxyContin and at the time I didn't know anything about really that all the pharmaceuticals were bad so they used Suboxone with me. They had me go 24 hours cold turkey where I got to experience the full withdrawal effects from the OxyContin and then I had an appointment after 24 hours of that where they gave me a A little sheet of Suboxone under my tongue and it just kind of stopped all the withdrawal effects and went home from there.

1:03:21SpeakerAnd I used that, they call that a pain drug too, kind of. I used that for about a month before I just kind of gave up on it. I didn't really see it doing anything.

1:03:33SpeakerWow, that's pretty incredible, man. Yeah, man, I want to just say, Aaron, it's really nice of you to share this with us. You know, it's not easy to go through this stuff, medical stuff especially. And I know I hate, honestly, thinking about dwelling on the shit I've been through, but it's very inspirational for others, you know, who might be dealing with it to hear you on this side of it so clearly talking about how good it feels to be on this side of it.

1:03:53SpeakerSo I'm really glad cannabis helped you. It surely helped me. I mean, it's really great to see us all having such similar stories in our lives turning around so positively.

1:04:04BubblemanAbsolutely. It sure creates a unique and different perspective. Todd obviously has had this perspective all of his cannabis life, but for a lot of us, we didn't come from that perspective of being sick and needing it as a child. A lot of the perspective is just that there's these bad guys, the cops, and they're trying to take it from you.

1:04:22SpeakerAnd doctors. Doctors should go to jail. This doctor's a bad guy. It's unbelievable. This young man like this is horrible. This is just absolutely fucking criminal. This doctor should go to jail. Dr.

1:04:36AaronThe Oxycontin particularly, it's created a whole generation of drug addicts, man.

1:04:41SpeakerThey're all on the fucking payola, man.

1:04:43AaronDr. Yeah, and they're giving it to kids even. In my shop, The Urban Shaman, I sell like a ton of Kratom, and probably like a third of it is people that got addicted to opiates because of Oxycontins given to them by doctors, and the doctors cut them off, and then they're on the streets buying it. Looking for other replacements if they can't get oxycodones and they get into the harder opiates even.

1:05:04AaronI don't know if there is harder opiates than oxycodone because that stuff is as addictive as crap.

1:05:11SpeakerDr. Suboxone is an opiate. Suboxone is just an opiate. They use opiates to wean you off other opiates. It's a never-ending cycle of feeding you poison.

1:05:25Etienne FontanIt's a chain after chain. It's absolutely I mean, just the liver damage you could have experienced alone, Aaron, is, you know, you're fortunate because of that, whatever that mix was and at the time that you were taking. And on top of that, what's frustrating is nowadays, due to modern medicine, not only do you have to get over your illness, now I have to get over the pills and the addiction of the pills now.

1:05:50Etienne FontanAnd absolutely, you know, that you've now been given just to help you. It's who's making who better, who's

1:05:57SpeakerThe guy wanted to take it from the pills to the pump. You know, the pump is just, you know, that pump goes, it just generates money for those companies, right? Now you don't, now the patient doesn't have to take a pill anymore. It's just automatically pumped. It's automatically ringing the cash register for all those motherfuckers.

1:06:19BubblemanAnd clearly you can see that these drugs don't produce a healthy lifestyle. They end up eating even worse food. These foods are processed, full of chemicals themselves, which interact with the drugs that you're taking. Good point, Mark. And just cause even more damage. I mean, just eating a processed diet could fuck up your liver without taking a whole slew of pharmaceuticals. I have a question, Aaron. Do you consume cannabis orally other than smoking and vaping?

1:06:48BubblemanAre you eating it as well?

1:06:50SpeakerI have 100 milligram coffee right here. Nice. Infused coconut oil in it. Yeah, usually a couple hundred milligrams a day in capsules if I have the cannabis for it available. Nice. But the dabbing seems to help with the pain and anxiety issues the most. I did want to bring up, though, since we're still talking about the pharmaceuticals, by the time I was getting off of the pharmaceuticals, I was going to see a gastroenterologist as often as I was going to see a back pain specialist because of all the damage that those drugs did to my stomach.

1:07:31SpeakerAnd so eating organic food from that point and eating a lot of probiotic-rich foods and supplements Has been almost as big a help to me as the cannabis for that particular side effect. I don't know if my gut forgot how to process real food or what or if it just killed all of the flora in there when I was on pharmaceuticals. But even to this day it's been four or five years later and I still have to take pretty high dose probiotics and watch what I eat really closely because my My gut just doesn't behave anymore.

1:08:13SpeakerWow. You're poisoned.

1:08:18BubblemanYeah. And if they pay me for it. Wow. Don't you drink water and food now, I guess, right?

1:08:26SpeakerNo.

1:08:28BubblemanAnd so how, I mean, you seem to have climbed through this cannabis path that many, for many of us it took some years, at least maybe a decade or more. I've seen you really sort of like just blaze through it in this last like year or so. Would that be about accurate?

1:08:46SpeakerYeah, I think so. I mean, it was just two years ago that I planted my first seed. And I grew a couple small little plants outside in a dog kennel. And then it was enough for me to realize that I didn't ever really want to buy cannabis again. You know, even if I could only grow a couple plants, I'd make it stretch, you know, as long as I needed to.

1:09:13SpeakerSo this year I just, I had my mom get a card and I maxed out my growing space in my backyard and decided, yeah, I haven't been able to try dry sift, I haven't been able to try really good full melt bubble, haven't been able to try really good rosin, so hey, I'm just going to do everything that I haven't been able to try yet. I still really don't see many of those products available for patients at dispensaries in the area.

1:09:44BubblemanNo, because believe it or not, most people that just decide, I'm just going to grow and make a bunch of killer hash, it doesn't always work out like that. Like you just decided to grow some, I remember seeing your plants going, damn, his plants look really good. And then all of a sudden all your resin was like, Like a five or a six star, you know, it's like, it's still considered, you know, unless you're living in Cali or something, it's kind of a holy grail, especially in the Midwest.

1:10:11Etienne FontanRight.

1:10:12BubblemanYou know, and you just, you just did the simple thing of like, being like, I'm just going to do it.

1:10:17SpeakerLike, I tell people all the time to do it and they're like, I can't do it. I'm like, why not? Well, I'm sure I was telling you that like three years ago. I mean, I think I remember chatting with you on tiny chat, like just, Within a few months of getting my card and saying, you know, there's no bubble around here. Nobody in Michigan makes bubble hash.

1:10:38SpeakerAnd now I make it and I know like a dozen people in Michigan that make it. So yeah, it's around. It just doesn't make it to the somewhat profit hungry dispensaries. The people who make it like it too much to get rid of it.

1:10:53BubblemanWell, and in extremely prohibitive states, you know, I'm not saying that Michigan isn't an extremely prohibitive state. It might have been in the last 20 years. But people were also, because people always think there's no bubble in Texas. And I'm like, I assure you there's bubble in Texas. And they're like, well, point me in the right direction. I'm like, listen, those Texas motherfuckers are kind of paranoid.

1:11:12BubblemanYou know, they don't want to know about, they don't want anyone knowing they have bubble. They're not pulling it out of the party. They're like smoking it in their living room at the end of the night.

1:11:20SpeakerRight. Watching Netflix or whatever.

1:11:24BubblemanIt's good. It's nice to see, man. I mean, I say that to everyone. It's pretty simple. I mean, you're not, you didn't invest 200 grand in your system. Like, you just did a few key things, ordered some seeds, got some tools.

1:11:36SpeakerYeah, and in fact, I'm on a disability check wage right now because my only patient, the only legal person I can sell to is my mom, and she's still on the fence about cannabis. So, you know, I have all this resin, and I have the only legal patient I can sell to, and she's only consumed about three capsules so far.

1:11:58BubblemanWell, we should definitely teach your mom about the preventative aspects of cannabis, even if she doesn't want to feel the euphoric feelings of cannabis, at least to consume them daily as a preventative. To me, it's a very important thing for particularly people that are getting older.

1:12:15SpeakerI'm just going to drop this. I don't think you should be selling it to your mom, man. I think you should just give that shit to your mom, man. That's kind of rough that Michigan would put you in such a tight place. But commit a little civil disobedience. Prison wasn't that bad. She's getting everything free anyway, bro. Don't be scared. She's getting everything free anyway. My whole point was, though, that I don't have an access point to just take half of my harvest and walk away with...

1:12:43SpeakerYou know, enough money to grow, to build a greenhouse for next year or something like that.

1:12:48BubblemanRight, exactly. There's no profit to be made. It's all a cost to you. It's all labor of love. Absolutely. Well, I can tell from your photos, dude, that it definitely is a labor of love. What did Grandma Bubble go for in Michigan?

1:13:04SpeakerYou know, I don't even know. Because I've never seen it personally. I've heard that it's been in the clubs for as much as $120 a gram. So you're...

1:13:14Etienne FontanYou say you're dabbing, Aaron. What are you dabbing at this time?

1:13:18SpeakerWell, right now I'm in my mom's house, so I don't have my rig. I have some Daybreaker Dry Sift Rosin in my pen.

1:13:31SpeakerBut I do have a pretty big stash of... I did my first pheno hunt during my first grow, so I have nine plants of Dairy Queen from TGA. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:14:06SpeakerBut how much resin do you have to produce to maintain yourself? If someone else goes, ah, the same story, I can't grow, how much would they have to buy, consume, barter to keep your type of conditions away? Because I know a lot of people with that debilitating back pain that leads to so many other drugs and emotional conditions that do they need a license? Does the license have to get to 20 plants?

1:14:32SpeakerWhat is the prescription for a person like you You know, to be able to have a cup of coffee with milligrams in it in the morning. Well, to be honest, I saw most of my chronic pain success with just smoking bud because it's all I had access to to begin with. And I was not smoking a ton just because at the time I thought that the dollar value from the dispensary meant quality and so I I just walked in and I bought the most expensive thing and I probably didn't have or consume nearly as much as I should have been for my illness just because of the price.

1:15:17SpeakerSo I don't know what it would take for another patient to get there with what I've learned since then. I wouldn't start a new patient smoking dry herb necessarily just to treat back pain. I'd probably start them in a little Higher tests, you know, like I'm using. But I probably consume less than a gram of bubble a day. And that seems to be completely growable within my 12 plant license if I do outdoor as big as I possibly can.

1:15:56BubblemanThere you go. Good call. And it makes sense, too. You don't have to build an expensive indoor room. It might be hard with a disability check, but to be able to throw some plants out and maybe even start them inside and get them a little bit bigger and put out a substantial plant and get something nice in return. 300 to 365 grams of resin is what you need to grow, so.

1:16:17SpeakerOne of my great annoyances is if you want to eat corn and feed your family corn all next year, they don't expect you to grow corn perpetually for the rest of your frigging life and have 12 corn plants. They let you grow an acre or whatever you're going to need. They expect there'll be crop failure. They expect there'll be mold. They'll expect there'll be bugs. They expect there'll be problems, and you only get a percentage of it.

1:16:38SpeakerAnd the reality is making us grow just such small amounts and putting people in the position of having to constantly Fucking work to make a little bit of medicine to appease people that collect guns and ammunition and it never gets counted. I mean, America is such hypocrites that they come and they give me shit for how many plants, how many flowers are in my fucking basement. But some dude up the street can have a collection of AR-15s and no one gives a shit.

1:17:03SpeakerAnd it's so fucking fucked up and I think it's all high times when we start saying, Screw you. I want to treat this like corn. We need to be able to grow as much as we need for all of next year, not for two fucking months, you know, and then have to start the whole process over again.

1:17:17BubblemanWell, they're just keeping it illegal by making it legal for only a small group. I've been trying desperately to see the good in this licensed producer thing here in Canada, and they just keep saying more and more ridiculous things in the media, trying to get dispensaries closed. Thank you for watching.

1:17:49BubblemanBut not at the expense of me or everyone else losing their license and certainly not at the expense of people not being able to purchase from dispensing.

1:17:57SpeakerHold on though. You know what though, Mark? I think there's a misnomer that we're going to lose what freedoms we have. They already tried prohibition at the end of a gunpoint. It didn't work out so well in the 20th century. And now more people have information, more people have smartphones, more people have courage. And they have less of an ability to put us in prison. So we're not going to lose our right to do it.

1:18:15SpeakerWe will lose the economy, the economic advantage that we had because of prohibition, because it's not going to be work shit once companies come in and Walmart's got it for fucking whatever a pound. But the truth is that cannabinoids getting into mainstream society is only going to help society. So I don't care if we lose the small-time growers' profitability. I think it's going to be good if we get cannabis into the hands of everybody.

1:18:38SpeakerAt dinner last night, I proposed a question that we talk about. Do you think it'll come a time like in the 40s and 50s where we suddenly realize we need to fortify our food with vitamins and minerals? And what if all this science from endocannabinoids is going to lead us to realize that we need to fortify our food with fucking cannabinoids? Because if we don't, we're going to have a whole host of problems.

1:18:58SpeakerI mean, it's a real possibility going forward, especially with the non-psychoactive cannabinoids.

1:19:04BubblemanAbsolutely.

1:19:06AaronYou know, if a legalization measure doesn't look good off the top, Then what we got to do is make changes to it down the road. And it's not like liquor laws have just stayed as they were when they passed. They're always adjusting and getting changed and shit like that. They're always in place. We've just got to fight more to get it less regulated.

1:19:27SpeakerWell, look at this. Jack Daniels has been successfully making whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee, and it's still a dry county. How many years after Prohibition? So, people are going to realize this is a slow process. I mean, you're not going to get what you want everywhere you're going to get it, and it isn't going to land like a lottery ticket. It ain't going to be some megabillions, and one part's going to walk away with the golden goose of legalization.

1:19:49SpeakerThis shit sucks. And it's going to take a while to fix this. The system of injustice, because it's fucking broken as fuck in America, and the reality is there's too many people making money off prohibition, from cops to prosecutors to fucking lawyers. I've always thought that normal had a conflict of interest. What do a bunch of lawyers want to change the law for when they've all got a gravy train of guys like us getting busted and we're all such polite defendants?

1:20:12SpeakerWe're not embarrassing, we pay our bills, we go get the money, we want to get bailed out to get to our families. We're like the perfect client for a lawyer. They don't want to actually defend assholes and rapists and murderers and fucking people that belong in freaking jail, which after being in prison, I actually had a lot of reverence for the prison guards because you know what?

1:20:31SpeakerI'm glad those fucking idiots have a place to keep those other guys. Well, I mean, I'm glad those fucking idiots have a place to be because there's a lot of guys in prison that really deserve to be there. That was what I learned in my half a decade of visiting the place. Truthfully. Right. I mean, there's people that think really fucked up shit is really fucking okay.

1:20:50SpeakerRobbing people's funny, you know, and it's fucked up and we need to be able to lock those assholes up. I mean, just to keep it real from my perspective, maybe I met too many dangerous men that fucking thought of things in a fucked up way and I'm a bit jaded, but I'm a bit jaded. I think we need prisons. I'm not against them.

1:21:14SpeakerThat crazy thing. Sorry, everybody. It's funny, Todd, because I think all those people are like, free my homie, X, Y, Z, and I'm like, that guy went to jail for murder. I don't want to see him ever fucking again. No, there's a lot to that, dude. You know. I mean, what I think the problem is with society is we have fucking people enforcing bad laws and it creates fucked up scenarios.

1:21:35SpeakerI mean, during alcohol prohibition, I read that three out of four federal agents were corrupt. I would love to know what the number is now. I bet you it doesn't look a whole lot better. You know, I mean, and this is part of the problem. The guy that busted the Silk Road. Excuse me, everybody. The Silk Road, the underground internet drug fucking warehouse place. The guy gets busted using Bitcoin.

1:21:55SpeakerThe goddamn DE agent just got time for stealing like $600,000 to $800,000 worth of Bitcoins because he was so fucking honest himself. You know, this is the drug war summed up. We got crooks chasing crooks. It's working out great.

1:22:11BubblemanAnd it doesn't seem to be changing much in the sense that the way they're hammering down on this legal herb, you know, soon to be industry, I don't know, I just, it's, the media does manipulate though as well, you know, you read a few stories, a few quotes from one guy and all of a sudden you get in a rage and it's just kind of what they want you to get.

1:22:32BubblemanThey love producing this divide and conquer mentality so you're not focused on You know, changing the laws with the people who are enforcing and making these laws, because you said earlier we're the easiest target for lawyers, we're the best client. Well, don't forget what a great target we make for police. I mean, would you rather seek out, like, dangerous people that are willing to kill other people and do real crime versus, like, some polite guy that is just like, oh, yeah, I have a little bit more in my pocket, here you go, yeah.

1:23:00SpeakerYou know, that's what specifically the former Baltimore detective said in the Culture Heist, and it's numbers. It takes a lot of work to bust a high-level drug dealer, but you can go bust ten of, like, low-level users and it all amounts to you getting brownie points on your record. And I think that's, you know... This whole thing is so screwed up. Private prisons are so fucked up that we allow people to private.

1:23:21SpeakerI watched the Kids for Cash documentary just last week. It's on Netflix. I highly recommend everybody watch that. The depth of which those judges went to manipulate the system. They actually found a friend that built municipalities And then found the contractor that would get the job. And what got them caught was the contractor got such a big contract, he came back and gave the judges a 10% finding fee, which was like $1.2 million apiece that neither judge paid taxes on.

1:23:50SpeakerSuch honest guys. Send the kids up the river for basically making MySpace pages about their vice principals. For fucking years this guy ruined lives, and he's over here not paying taxes on a million too.

1:24:01BubblemanAnd he probably owns a part of the private prison that's pumping the labor out that those kids, because the real value is their labor.

1:24:09SpeakerWell, his guarantee was to his friends is, you know, look, you do this for me, I'll keep them full.

1:24:14AaronThe real irony in Canada is a former chief of police being in charge of the regularities of marijuana. Good God, you know, a lifelong fucking cop.

1:24:25BubblemanYeah, the super cop they even called him. And wasn't he a part of the big G20 summits when like over 100 people got arrested and all these human rights violations occurred?

1:24:35AaronAbsolutely, man.

1:24:36BubblemanSo it's a bummer. I thought that as well. I thought, wow, like that's like, you know, like a bunch of like, I don't know, that's just insane. It's like, oh, you want equal rights. Okay, well, we'll just put this guy who's the head of the KKK in charge of giving equal rights to minorities. Well, that doesn't work. That's totally insane. You can't even make this shit up.

1:25:02Etienne FontanWell, they call us low-hanging fruit, marijuana smokers, so that's what easy pickings. And so that's why they've gone after us because you know what it costs to get a lawyer and to defend yourself and to now fight the ticket and then you have to take the day off to go to court and to deal with it. It created such a, oh my God, what a headache it is if somebody you get fucked with.

1:25:26Etienne FontanAnd once you get fucked with, then if you have to go into then, you know, jail or probation or how it affects now your future, your job, and I mean, it's absolutely reprehensible on how if you get caught with cannabis, it shuts down your life. You can't go to college here in the United States. You lose your student loan. I got kicked out of the military for only one positive urinalysis, lost all my benefits, et cetera, et cetera.

1:25:54Etienne FontanYou know, four years good service, out the fucking door. It doesn't matter. One positive urinalysis, you're done. You know, that's it. You know, so it affects so many people on so many different levels. It's a social economic because it keeps definitely low class low class because you can't afford to get out of a situation and it puts you in years of debt and then trying to find a job now that you have a bust on your record because now you can't go to school because you can't get the education because you can't get the student loan.

1:26:31Etienne FontanAnd now what do you do? You're stuck in the land of low-income jobs. It's a wicked system we're stuck in.

1:26:40BubblemanIt's not the most ideal. Welcome, Tony.

1:26:42SpeakerWhat's going on, guys? How's everyone doing?

1:26:49BubblemanDoing very well. Having a nice half-church. We had Aaron sharing his story, getting off the farmies and losing tons of weight and learning how to grow herb and pheno hunt and Make rosin and dry sift and full melt bubble and he's done all this in the last year and a half to two years.

1:27:07SpeakerOh my gosh. Good for Aaron.

1:27:11BubblemanSo good for Aaron. You know I like it because it's a story that so many people can relate to at least the first half and they're desperately looking for that way out. It's amazing that his way out was putting a post on his Facebook page randomly saying anyone have some pot. That's how he escaped.

1:27:32SpeakerThat's amazing. Times have changed. I escaped too back in the late 90s, but we certainly couldn't put any advertisement out on the internet looking for pot at that time.

1:27:45BubblemanWell, he wasn't even into pot at the time, so I kind of get the idea that it was almost sort of like, I don't know, he didn't really explain it, but where was that coming from, Aaron? Was that just kind of like super random, or it was like, maybe I need to smoke some pot?

1:27:59SpeakerTo be honest, I think I had been watching some of the maybe History Channel shows about cannabis at the time, and it was like the Stanley Brothers and stuff like that, some of those people. And I didn't really know anything about cannabis, so just the fact that I was watching it and seeing some human being getting relief from it made me think, oh, well maybe there is something to that after all.

1:28:26BubblemanThat's wild. Andy Brothers inspired you to use cannabis. Scary. Hey, you know, it's probably right there though is why they kept this information from being on television for so long because that is the power of television. You watch a documentary, just like they know if they show a beer commercial, you'll be like at the beer store without even realizing what you're doing there, buying beer. Just be like, what the fuck am I doing here right now?

1:28:53BubblemanIt's like, I don't know, I think I'm buying some beer. Yeah, yeah, we're getting beer, that's right. South Park ripped on it. If you guys remember the South Park a few weeks back where they ripped on, you know, these guys kept trying to do research and they kept getting like hijacked by advertising, commercials. They'd be all of a sudden like eating Cheetos, trying shoes on at Foot Locker.

1:29:15SpeakerCan I tell you something amazing? The CBD clip from the culture, I just re-shared it on Facebook and it keeps an accumulative of the amount of views. It's up to 25.7 million views. Jason and Jaden's story talking about the CBD helping his son. That's amazing. You know, we could never have printed 25 million copies of The Emperor. You know, I mean, this is why I think this is such a beautiful way of communicating to each other.

1:29:40SpeakerAnd it really is, it's impossible to really understand how much this information is penetrating society right now. By the way, it really is amazing. I would love to see people punching the hash, church, chat, all the countries that they're in and how many people are sitting around watching again. I would love to see how far this is being watched all over the world. What countries are you all in?

1:30:02SpeakerPlease do that if you don't mind. Those of you in the chat, I should say.

1:30:06Etienne FontanYeah, this would be a great thing to do weekly when we get out of 1,000. Where's everybody from? Where are you at? Who's watching us? Where?

1:30:15SpeakerHaving such a reach, especially here in the U.S., we should be able to affect change, you know? I mean, look, one of the presidential candidates, Bernie Sanders, has said he's going to take it off the list, right? What happens when that happens, when it's no longer a Schedule I substance and it can be regulated like tomatoes? I mean, we have to use the power of our reach to affect political change and do it now.

1:30:44SpeakerNot next year, not sometime in the future. Do it now. Vote for Bernie. I'm watching all the names go by, and it's incredible, man. Dude, I'm tripping out. Egypt, Netherlands, Germany, Illinois, Rhode Island. Hey, hi, Rhode Island. Australia! France? Dude, France. Holy shit. It's crazy how many people must not know what we're talking about. Like, someone in France is like, Bernie who? I'm blown away. Unfortunately, Illinois.

1:31:12SpeakerThat was funny, yo. You can move on out here, too. I'm a transplant. Santa Cruz. I was there yesterday.

1:31:20BubblemanScotland. Dude, this is unbelievable. Jamaica, again. Quite a few Jamaicas I saw pop up. Congo. New Hampshire. Hey, live free or die. That was my favorite. International Space Station. Now that's what I'm talking about. Which one are you tripping on? The International Space Station.

1:31:38SpeakerGet the F out of here. Alright, he might be kidding. I just want to believe it's true. I can get high and pretend. That's a good one.

1:31:48BubblemanPeople will be like, how many countries is Hash Church on? I'm like, dude, it's moved to international space stations and shit. Look at that, Slovakia?

1:31:57SpeakerHow often do they see their weed men on that space station? They must have kept the mode up.

1:32:03BubblemanI love it, Minnesota, dude, it's unbelievable, you know, the world is just shrinking in front of my eyes. Let's talk about making dry sift in a zero gravity environment, just for our friends on the space station.

1:32:16Etienne FontanWell, you'd be able to separate your particulates, you'd be able to see the green, right?

1:32:20SpeakerI just want to say thank you for everybody that just took part in that little exercise, it's still blowing my mind.

1:32:26BubblemanIt's pretty incredible for sure, dude. There's a thousand people in the chat right now. So we've kind of reached our new level is 1,000, and next we go for 2,000.

1:32:38SpeakerYou know what, though? I think that this is just the beginning. People are really starting to tune into each other and to what matters, and I think it's not the boob tube anymore. It's not like three channels and you've got to choose what you're going to watch or it's PBS. Now you can really pick and choose what information you want to absorb, and video is honestly a great way to learn.

1:33:00SpeakerYou know, you could put somebody in front of one of those documentaries in two hours. They got such a better... It would take somebody so long to absorb the emperor. It would take them two hours to absorb the union.

1:33:12BubblemanYeah, true enough. It's true. And that's so quick, the way they absorb it as well when they see it. What beautiful, wonderful things do you have to share with us this week, Tony?

1:33:24SpeakerWell, I... I've been really digging on this, you know, the New Year's resolution of Full Melt. And I've been really digging on the last week, obviously, you saw on Instagram. But it's been fun working with you on, you know, creating some really, really, really unique high-end quality products. And you also wanted to focus on Full Melt. So I would say that, like, The, uh, obviously the big, the big red resin heads that you've seen on Instagram is, uh, I mean, it is incredibly unbelievable.

1:34:05BubblemanYou need to smoke some of that with Todd and Etienne.

1:34:09SpeakerYeah, I know. I'm looking. I wonder what happened to it. Shit. I, um, that's what happens with the best hash. You either, like, smoke it all or you misplace it. Or you took it all and thought you misplaced it.

1:34:25BubblemanI have a great photo in Jamaica in like 2001, and I'm at my friend's little vegetarian ital cafe, and I'm kind of tripping out. I'm like standing up, like looking all over for this hash. I was like, it was right here. And you see me like this in the picture, and the hash is literally stuck to my arm. Three different pieces just like stuck to my arm.

1:34:47BubblemanIt's pretty funny.

1:34:48SpeakerYeah, that's the kind of stuff that happens with it. Uniquely, we can talk about this because we once talked about this in a little chat before. So here is, this is the 90, you can see the 90U, the gram that I posted. You can see it comes right off the glass, super sticky. See those heads still? I don't know if you can still see that.

1:35:13BubblemanA little too close. The cameras, you have to be a little bit further away for it to kind of, for it to grab. I got a good idea when you... Showed the inside of the jar. It definitely looked like greasy resin.

1:35:29BubblemanMaking me want to smoke hash. I guess I better smoke some right now.

1:35:33SpeakerSo what I was going to say was what's unique is this one's washed. This one's like washed, sieved, not microplaned. And this is the same 90U that has been washed and then brought down to about a negative 45 state and then put in a freeze dryer. And then nothing's ever touched it except myself right now. And then this is like the consistency of that cookie dough that if you just kind of like even just use the parchment paper to touch it itself, you can see it's not red anymore, which is unusual.

1:36:10SpeakerIt's more like a cookie dough. And the consistency, this is what I really like. So this is kind of like what I'm working on is like consistencies of full melt that are a little bit more user friendly than like say the powder. This is still presses out. You know, it doesn't stick. It's still a good, it's good still. This is off a little chunk that I pulled off of that.

1:36:35SpeakerSo you can see it, it still presses out perfectly fine. You can see all the heads. What's that? I don't know yet. I'm going to send that off. I have to send that off next week. Is that orange creamsicle? Is that what?

1:36:51BubblemanThat's orange creamsicle? Both of those? Yes.

1:36:55SpeakerYeah, yeah, yeah. So there's like, I'm working with orange creamsicle and like a sourdough, there's strawberry mind warp, and this cheese strain, this cheese bomb. But what's unusual about it is if you wash it, you sieve it, you let it dry, it's It's got this crazy red tint to it. And if you go, you know, it never touches air. So if you go cryogenic into a freeze dryer and then cure it, it comes out with a different color, more like a cookie blonde, like that blonde kind of hash.

1:37:30SpeakerAnd the heads are different too. So I kind of wanted to know what your thoughts were on that. Is if, you know, maybe the oxygen's changing the color of...

1:37:41Bubbleman100%. I used to do it in Jamaica to freak my Jamaican friends out because all the hash there is dark, very dark. And so I would make bubble hash and sometimes I would just put a patty frozen like a 73 patty. I would just put it in the freezer and freeze it instead of sieving everything. I'd sieve everything and it would just turn this incredible dark red.

1:38:01BubblemanI came out one time and the sun had moved over where I had it out on cardboard and it was literally bubbling on the cardboard. Wow. Yeah, it was insane. From the sun. So I would put a patty in the freezer every once in a while because when it first comes out, it comes out like super blonde. And then leave it in there for like a couple of days and when a friend would come over, I'd be like, hey, have you seen this crazy hash?

1:38:24BubblemanAnd of course it was all wet still and frozen and Immediately melting in the heat of Jamaica, but it still freaked out a good few of my Jamaican friends to see. Just like, how'd you get it like that? Like it didn't, you know, like what the hell?

1:38:40SpeakerSo that... What do you think about like just the size of the heads too? Consistency and besides the color, what do you think... What do you think curing with water, like the slower process of getting the water out versus like a faster way of getting the water out? Because obviously the way I did it with the freeze dryer was fast in comparison.

1:39:04BubblemanYeah, well, and also very cold, so it's also under a vacuum, so you're creating different environments that the other hash never went through, so generally most things that you do in that way, shape, or form are going to leave some sort of a footprint, like whenever I've Cured anything out in like cold temperatures, it's always come out much lighter. But at the same time, leave that stuff out for a couple of months and see what color it turns.

1:39:35SpeakerYeah, I've been leaving it out. And so it went from this like blonde, blonde cookie. And the second that it gets any kind of pressure, like I put it in a sheet of parchment, and I didn't put a lot of pressure on it, but just even a little bit of parchment in my bag, it turns into like a really... It turns into like that kind of maybe old school blonde hash that you would get, you know, probably Moroccan or something like that.

1:40:02BubblemanWe always called that the caramel.

1:40:04SpeakerYeah, yeah.

1:40:06BubblemanStuff I used to make in the 90s with the BC hash plant used to come out like that. Caramel from the 25 micron up to the 190. Hey, welcome D420K. Thank you.

1:40:22BubblemanAs we're looking at the hash, what's that?

1:40:29SpeakerOh, nothing. It's just like, you know, I just see like the little heads they smash. It's like a different consistency. It's really cool. I'm going to try to, I'm excited to actually make that into a rosin and then a butter. So I'm going to actually create a butter under like a warm vac. So I'm going to rosin this out and then I'm going to butter it out into like a, kind of like a...

1:40:53SpeakerSo that's what I'm working on, consistencies and flavors and trying to keep, trying to get the water out as fast as possible, keep the most amount of flavor and terpenes and create consistencies and textures that are a little more user friendly in the full melt or the hash world, you know.

1:41:14BubblemanWell, that's what it's all about, man. That's...

1:41:19BubblemanThat's what we're trying to get out to the world, a properly made water hash to re-inspire people that have been less inspired with what's available for the last few years.

1:41:30SpeakerYeah, I've noticed, especially if you're taking a good five-star and you're pressing it out, or a four-star and you press it out... We're back to the same old thing. It's like I feel like you probably clean it up a little bit. It turns into an oil. It's definitely easier to dab, but I still feel the flavor. You lose flavor in rosining something out for sure.

1:41:55BubblemanWell, the West Coast Concentrate guys said it perfectly the other day. They were like, well, rosin is just a byproduct of bubble. The stuff that's not five or six are we just press into rosin. It's a byproduct so we can still have a nice product.

1:42:11SpeakerMark's laughing over there. What's he laughing about? No, I just, I like that. I think that that's funny. I mean, again, view rosin as something more than just a byproduct and bubble. I routinely, when I look at flowers, I'll rosin the flowers just to see what kind of yield they get. Just as a measure of, hey, how oily is that nugget? It's a great way to test someone's nugget.

1:42:38SpeakerAbsolutely. I think it's a great little diagnostic to have. You've got to remember, too, like all those folks in the legal states, for those of The people who don't exist in illegal states where there is good closed loop and good bubble hash and good dry stiff, if you can get it, this now just becomes an enabling way for people to make a dabable product from Nugget. I think it serves a little bit more than that, but I was just laughing, Tony, because I think that, again, I think there's nothing wrong with the hash you're starting with.

1:43:17BubblemanEveryone's at a different, you know, everyone's climbing at a different rate and they sort of, some people are quite happy with even what I call no melt bubble. They like that old school flavor and taste and you know what, that's the beautiful thing about this plant.

1:43:33SpeakerLet's talk a second about the color because the color is, again, there's some chemistry that underpins what's going on there and It's always interesting to look at how color and flavor can change simultaneously or not. I mean, so that's the question I have for you, Tony, is the color change simultaneous with any kind of noticeable change in the bouquet or the essence of the material? So that's the full melt.

1:44:01SpeakerWhen we washed it, just sieved it out and let it dry, it was like Fucking bright orange, like orange, orange red from the start. I would say that it was probably, well, I don't know about that. I guess you're right. It probably was, it came out kind of caramely creamy, and then it must have been within a day, it just went like bright, like this bright red orange.

1:44:32SpeakerAnd then the other way, As soon as I had a patty, pressed it out a little bit, got a little water out, and then put it in a little chamber that had some dry ice on the outside, so it was probably negative 40 or so, and then that went right into a negative 30 state, and then I created this interval system that pulled out the water fairly quickly, and And staging it in negative 30, negative 20, negative 10, 10, 20, 40.

1:45:05SpeakerAnd then you have to understand that any time you're under a vacuum, you change those temperatures. So people that have used maybe freeze dryers in the past, they've probably gotten one result where it's really powdery, you know, no water, and probably not a lot of terpenes left. So I try to do an interval stepping with... A negative fact, lower pressures, lower temperatures and staging it. So that's why I got the scientific model because I wanted to create a, I guess you could say a digital experience versus an analog experience and see what the difference was.

1:45:36SpeakerI think that the red, the full melt that's with the bigger head that's actually red that was just done exactly how Bubble Man wanted it seems to have not only the color change but it probably has, I would say it probably has I don't think the melt's any different, but I think that the, I would say there's probably still a little more flavor in the traditional method.

1:46:04SpeakerSo I still, in my opinion, still have to work on it a little bit. I mean, it's still, it's kind of, it hit two different notes. That's what's unusual. The full melt that was sieved out and just dried and went red has more of the characteristic of the fuel-y orange citrus of this particular strain. And the one that I did in the cryo in the freezer picked up on the creamy citrus tones and not as fuel-y.

1:46:31SpeakerSo if anything, I would say there was more hashy, fuel-y taste from the full melt. And if you like that, then you would gravitate towards the more traditional or analog version. If you like the flavored tones and the subtle tones of the creaminess and the... The citrus and not as much fuel-y, not as hashy, if you will. If you put it in your pen, you wouldn't be like, oh, that's like a very fuel-y, hashy taste.

1:47:01SpeakerSo it changed the taste.

1:47:03BubblemanAnd that'll change with every strain that you run through there.

1:47:07SpeakerYeah.

1:47:08BubblemanYou know, it'll change and be different each time you run different strains. So it's endless amounts of combinations.

1:47:17SpeakerYeah, and then, I mean, you know, then Bizarre Brothers and I were all hanging out, and then we added, like, maybe, I'm starting to do, like, one drop per five grams now, maybe even up to ten grams of Terps back, so the same orange creamsicle Terps back into the freeze-dried, and I think I have a little bit of that, I'm not really sure, but it then... That then is another consistency and another completely different unique flavor that I think if you don't overkill it with terpenes and you just kind of restore like a little bit of them, like one drop for 10 grams, it seems to give like that perfect consistency where it still allows everything, it just enhances everything, allows everything to come out.

1:48:05SpeakerSo in the beginning I was doing like one drop per gram. Like one drop for two grams.

1:48:10BubblemanWell, in the beginning you were doing one drop on the nail without any grams.

1:48:20SpeakerI remember because it would be like, that's like filling a thimble with a fire hose.

1:48:27BubblemanYeah. You've got to do it at least one time in your life. Once you get up off the ground from your lungs completely shutting down, it's super tasty.

1:48:37SpeakerYeah. Well, you know, I was excited. So now it's like learning how to use it properly, I think. So, you know, like you could, the dip and dab is still probably my favorite. Just taking like this I would take and dab just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of it like into the vial. Keep the same strain. And that's what I was trying to go for. Create a full melt or create a rosin or create a butter and then create the terpene to go with it.

1:49:03SpeakerAnd then you could do like the whole, you know, you could have the same flavor on the same flavor. And that's what I really like. And then you get like into some cool things where, you know, if you get like four or five of those in a row, then you might get something that's like purple or a goo or something that can mix with a strawberry banana or a strawberry watermelon-ish taste.

1:49:26SpeakerAnd now all of a sudden you get these exotic tastes.

1:49:28BubblemanYou know what you're reminding me of right now? You're reminding me of a pipe that Brian Ratcliffe blew. He went by the name Rat Dog and, oh, how could I forget his name? He's a glassblower that lived here for years, used to blow next to Marble Slinger. And I asked him years ago, I said, I want a pipe that's kind of like two bongs that are like separate in their sense that they have separate bowls and separate water chambers.

1:49:54BubblemanAnd then I want the bongs to kind of melt together at the top. Right at the mouthpiece, I want the two things. And what the two things were... was one was a vapor bowls so you put like fresh Rene bud in the vapor bowl and then he made these little glass wands called hot glass vaporizers they were incredible and so you'd stick one of those in one bowl of the pipe and then in the other bowl we'd have like full melt Rene hash and you'd like be hitting it with like the the the beeline or the the match and so you had this hash hit that was basically modulated by terpenes that weren't extracted Via any special method other than vaporization and then inhaled right into your mouth simultaneously to the hash hit.

1:50:40BubblemanAnd it reminds me of how you're modulating with these additional terpenes. It's like it's the next level. I'm going to bring that pipe to Jamaica the next time we go and I'll let you have a couple of rips on it. You will be impressed. Anyone that's inhaled as many cannabinoids and terpenes as yourself needs to try this thing.

1:51:03SpeakerWell, I would love to try that. I want to get those steam chalices.

1:51:12BubblemanYou want to get what?

1:51:14SpeakerI want to get that steam chalice. The steam chalice that I originally hit with the big palm patty. Remember I took that gram and I made it into like a big hit?

1:51:21BubblemanWith Kevin in Kingston.

1:51:23SpeakerOh my God.

1:51:24BubblemanAt the chalice station.

1:51:26SpeakerThat's probably one of the most memorable like bong and hits that I've ever had.

1:51:30BubblemanListen, first of all, just the place alone is super, it's like downtown Kingston, you know, 10 o'clock or at night, in this venue called Dubwise that Yardcore runs, beautiful, playing music basically, with the actual musicians that he invites in to, you know, do different overdubs of their voice, singing over their own music, and it's super killer. And at the back is this chalice station, which is under these trees, and it's beautiful, corner spot, the music's pumping.

1:52:05BubblemanAnd it was Kiddus that brought me back there the first time. Is that who brought you back there too, Tony?

1:52:12SpeakerYou're muted.

1:52:15SpeakerYou're muted. Bong rip. Bong rip. Get a bong rip. I'll come back to this. Bong rip. Bong rip.

1:52:29BubblemanAll right. All right. It's a bong rip sort of day. I guess I could have one. Helps me think. Doesn't help everyone think.

1:52:42BubblemanSometimes people puff a couple of bowls and they're unable to articulate their message.

1:52:49Etienne FontanAnd some of us can't think without it.

1:52:53SpeakerThat's the general consensus. I just can't think without it.

1:52:58Etienne FontanIndeed. All right.

1:53:01SpeakerYeah, I don't know if you actually, I think I told this story once on Hash Church. I don't know if you actually, I don't remember you coming with us. But I got in.

1:53:09BubblemanI wasn't with you. No, I stayed home that night. You came home and told me, oh my God, I had this amazing, I had the same hit the next day.

1:53:17SpeakerOh, that's right, that's right. Yeah, so I got in this like 1972 like yellow Mercedes with like black leather interior. Into Jeff Ifree and Kid Asai. Come on Tony, we're going to take you to this party. And I was like, alright. Because we just never went out. And then we went to that event that you described. And there was a couple people there. You know, everybody had their own little circles and everybody was looking at us kind of weird.

1:53:53SpeakerThat's funny.

1:53:54BubblemanI don't know. I walked in with Kiddus and he was just sauntering in, you know. He just knows everyone in the whole place. Everyone's like, Kiddus! Everyone.

1:54:03SpeakerEvery single person. Every single person from the moment you start from the very beginning to the person that's at the front gate. That's right. Yeah, where we parked the car. All the way to there, to the guy where we parked the car. And I think I explained this on Hash Church before where we had a 25-point parking job where the guy said, hey, come on, man, park your car right here.

1:54:24SpeakerAnd it's like the street's running parallel like this. The parking was supposed to be running parallel with the street. And the guy wanted us to park perpendicular to the street like this. And the car was in the street. And I was like, hey, I don't know if this is like a spot. Don't worry about it, man. Park your car there. And I was like, the passenger, and I was like, hey, man, like your car is in the road.

1:54:46SpeakerLike, it will get hit. The nose of your car. I was like, can we get any closer? And it was just like movement where he came in and he parked like this, and here's the road, and he was backing up and trying to get his car to get it so his nose was literally right on the edge. And then the back of it was right on concrete.

1:55:09SpeakerBut yeah, he knew everybody, and then when I went in there, Everybody gave me like a curious eye, but I just kept giving out like a hash to people. Yeah. Yeah, check this out, check this out. And then very quickly I also became friends with people.

1:55:24BubblemanOh, yeah. Isn't cannabis beautiful that way?

1:55:28SpeakerYeah. It comes from the nose. Everyone does this. You open up your little jar, your little packet, and everybody does, you know, they smell it. And if you smell good and they like the way you smell and it looks good, They'll probably be your friend for a minute. And if it's ital and it's natural, then you're probably going to win some bonus points there within the community.

1:55:51SpeakerI immediately got ushered to the chalice station though. Right, but comparing it to food, if food doesn't smell good to us, it's really hard for us to eat. So food is such a connector to us when it comes to how we are going to appreciate something. Yeah, same thing. Like when you meet somebody, If you had like a fruit or a drink or smoothie, you know, you're like, oh, wow, it tastes amazing.

1:56:14SpeakerYou're naturally going to want to be friendly to that person because they're providing you something that's healthy for you.

1:56:20BubblemanThe only thing, strangely enough, that breaks that rule is durian, which is the nastiest smelling shit, like nasty, nasty. But it really tastes really good. I don't know how to explain it. It's the strangest fruit I've ever had. I had it when I was traveling in Asia. And yeah, check out the durian. It's like illegal to open those things up on a plane or in hotel rooms throughout Asia.

1:56:46BubblemanYou get fined big money for it. Smell like baby diapers and vomit or something, but tastes delicious.

1:56:56SpeakerI don't know what that is that you're talking about.

1:56:59BubblemanIt's a big fruit that looks like jackfruit or breadfruit, but it's called durian, D-U-R-I-A-N. You can Google it up or whatever.

1:57:07SpeakerIt's hippie food. It smells. It's just unbelievable.

1:57:11BubblemanYeah, you don't want to be opening it up in a closed environment. Opening it and eating it, you quickly won't smell it, but if you're like five feet away, holy shit. It tastes great. Yeah, it's pretty nasty. Yeah, it tastes great. Hey, I just heard Sam's voice. Nah, it must be somebody else. Dude, how are you doing, man? Welcome. What a trip. Howdy, howdy. That was so trippy because I saw someone in Hash Church chat say, is that Skunk Man?

1:57:48BubblemanAnd then all of a sudden I hear your voice say, it tastes great. I can imagine you love durian. Nah, but it kind of tastes like bubbly baby vomit. Bubbly Beavis.

1:58:03SpeakerSo how are you doing? Where is his voice coming from?

1:58:06BubblemanFrom his camera, hemp.

1:58:08SpeakerWhere?

1:58:09BubblemanFrom a place far, far away.

1:58:11SpeakerOh my God, look at that. Is that the oldest grow book? Did you obviously get my email? It's not the oldest grow book. What is? I'm not 100% sure, but I know one... By a guy down in San Diego might have been in here.

1:58:36SpeakerHis name was, I think, Dave Fleming. What year do you think that was? 65, 66, 67. Wow. Wow. Do you have a copy of it? Yes.

1:58:53Etienne FontanAre there illustrations or pictures in it, or is it just all work?

1:58:57SpeakerNow, he's an old friend of mine who used to bring a product from Mexico, really sophisticated, completely unpressed, in beautiful, beautiful condition, with little maps showing exactly where it was from.

1:59:27Etienne FontanIs it black and white, I think?

1:59:29SpeakerMust be black and white, yeah. Is what black and white? Well, there's no color, really. It wouldn't have been a color book. 18 was asking for black and white. It was a black and white book. It was by Dave Levin, and I think it might have been Sundance Press.

1:59:46BubblemanWell, there you have it. Confirmed. There is an older book. But Todd will have that next week on Ash Church. If I can find it. If I can find it. You'll have the author. You'll have the guy in your house. He'll just be sitting there.

2:00:02SpeakerHey, you know what? Sam, whatever happened to Ernest Abel? Marijuana the first 12,000 years and the marijuana terms and dictionary. Whatever happened to Ernest? He's actively involved in cannabis again, and he's much more pro than he was.

2:00:21BubblemanWell, that's good.

2:00:23SpeakerWe should reach out to him. Honestly, Marijuana the First 12,000 Years is one of my favorite cannabis history books. There's a line in the opening that when I was a child, I read this. I was a teenager, and I found the book at the Pawtucket Public Library, and he writes, It sprouts from the earth not meekly, not cautiously and suspensive where it is and what it may find, but defiant, arrogant, that whatever the circumstance, it has the stamina to survive.

2:00:51SpeakerAnd I love it. It was just talking about the hemp seed or the cannabis seed. We used to sell marijuana for 12,000 years and I almost licensed it for the first table that somebody else did. And yeah, I know it's a great historical book. Maybe the best one ever. Wow. I fully agree with the best one written. You know, it goes back, if you haven't written it, and everybody can access it on the internet for free at the drug text library.

2:01:22SpeakerIf you just type in marijuana the first 12,000 years, you will find it right away, and you can read the first chapters. It talks about when China invented paper using hemp and mulberry and kept it a secret from their neighbors for over 900 years. Talk about information not transparent. That's because people was a military secret, kind of like silk. It was an economic secret. And they just, kind of like Apple, they didn't want everybody to know how they do what they do.

2:01:57BubblemanRight. You might be getting a little far away from your mic, starting to cut out a tiny bit.

2:02:03SpeakerThat's because I went over and I sat down.

2:02:06BubblemanI know, I can tell.

2:02:08SpeakerThere'll be no sitting for you. I'm going to go find the Dave Fleming book. I'll be back in one second. All right.

2:02:16BubblemanThere we go. Good to see it. Chat's going off.

2:02:19Etienne FontanDid he give a name of that book? What was the actual name of that book?

2:02:26BubblemanWell, soon he will come back and show us that book, hopefully, and we'll get the title and we'll get to see it. And what a total and complete surprise that he just popped into chat.

2:02:40BubblemanThat made me happy. Well, you must have sent him the link. I send him the link every weekend, bro. Are you kidding me?

2:02:48SpeakerI'm not saying nothing. I just sent him an email two minutes ago and I was like, what the fuck? That's crazy.

2:02:54BubblemanI send links, man. I send links. I send out the links. I've been sending Soil Grown the links for the last, I don't know, six or eight months. I want him to come on and tell us what he's been up to and talk about rosin and Fuck, that guy was fun to talk to. Great, great, great episode. I think it might be one of the most watched hash churches that we ever had.

2:03:16BubblemanMight be the one where Soil Grown was on. It's 25 or 30,000 views. When he was pressing nuggets on his press? Yeah. That was awesome. That was awesome. You know, it makes for a great fun time at a booth. In my opinion, the bubble, you know, my booth at the Cannabis Cup was always really the same thing. Come by, Have a chat about cannabis and resin and basically for sure puff some bubble.

2:03:42BubblemanBut, you know, with the good fun that is the rosin press, you can just let people, hey, if you want to press out some of your buds, we've got the press, it's right here, just boom. In Jamaica we were just pressing, squishing nugs like you would not believe. And once we got through all the shitty hash and shitty bud and other people started stepping up, it was wonderful.

2:04:06SpeakerWere old school smokers who had not seen the technique before skeptical before they actually saw it work?

2:04:13BubblemanWell, you know, I think Jamaica is a place that people have been going and showing them things for so long. That they're pretty receptive to being shown things. I mean sure there's always a little bit of like, you know, just like any human being would be like, what are we watching right now? But from the time I went there in 2001 and showed them water hash, you know, putting water and ice and then cannabis all mixed up, I mean they were definitely like, what is this guy doing?

2:04:39BubblemanBut at the same time it was like, well, who cares? He already bought the weed.

2:04:47BubblemanYou like that one, Horatio?

2:04:49SpeakerYeah, because I knew that I was like, whatever man, I know we already sold them the weed, and then you said it.

2:04:57BubblemanI've been going for a while. You know what, I'll tell you, when that hash got pulled out of those bags, every single one of those dudes that I showed over the years, I mean, some of them have never stopped. Like my buddy Ziggy, who I basically saw, I met him in 2001, gave him some bubble bags in Orange Hill, taught him how to make water hash, he was an amazing grower.

2:05:17BubblemanI saw him last year at the Cannabis Cup in Negril up on the stage with his hash making medal. It was such an amazing full circle to see it come around like basically 15 years later. It's pretty cool. Oh, here we got the book.

2:05:32SpeakerWell, this is actually the 15th printing, 1974. All right. But I'll look and see if I can find the first printing, but trouble is I have like 300 little books like this on cultivation.

2:05:52BubblemanThat's a hatch church right there where we just go through your cultivation books.

2:05:58SpeakerThat's more than one church. I would pay attention to every second of that one myself.

2:06:06BubblemanOh my God, can you imagine? We should just do like 15 minutes every Sunday and be like Sam's Book Corner.

2:06:13SpeakerYou know, I can't thank you enough for letting me go through the labels and take pictures. I've gotten so much feedback from that, Sam, from all the people that got to see those. It was so kind of you. Hey, I have a question.

2:06:25BubblemanWhere is Cuban? Has he been around? I sent him the link, but I think on Sundays he goes and plays around on like, he builds these cars that drift and he goes to these racetracks, so it's how he blows off steam from all the work that he does, so maybe he'll come in today, you never know.

2:06:44SpeakerNo, because I sent him a couple emails and I couldn't get him to answer me.

2:06:49BubblemanOh, I'll just text him and tell him to send you an email.

2:06:54SpeakerSam, what preservation techniques do you feel haven't changed in a universal truth that you probably read in that book and you still use today? What do you feel is a time-tested truth? I would say the majority of the books that I've read have had more inaccuracies than accuracies. That's one of the reasons why I collect them. Kind of like I collect police law enforcement patches. They're just sick.

2:07:24BubblemanYep, you have quite an incredible collection of police law enforcement patches. More than 1,000 different ones. Jesus. Yeah, some of them are crazy, too, with the skulls and the syringes, like this drug task force. You're just like, man, these fucking guys.

2:07:42SpeakerWell, that and who is it? The guy with the death with the Sith. You know who I'm talking about? You know, a skull carrying...

2:07:55BubblemanThe Grim Reaper. Yes, the Grim Reaper. Yeah, those are amazing patches. And the funny ones are the collector cards for the drug-sniffing dogs with all their stats on the back of the card. Oh, yeah. Well, Sam, if you're going to be on, you know what?

2:08:14SpeakerI would love to ask you, you know, when did you, what got you into cannabis? What got me into cannabis? The first time, The first time I smoked a joint was 1965. I had moved from Orange County to Hollywood and was going to go to Hollywood High School. And a lot of the hipper people there, because it was still a minority of people smoking, said, Have you ever done this?

2:08:51SpeakerAnd so I would just sort of nod and imply that I had, when really I hadn't. So anyway, this Russian, a girl who was actually from, her family was from Russia, sold me three joints. I think she might have stolen from her parents' stash or something like that. And I took them home with me. I paid 25 cents each.

2:09:19SpeakerAnd I took them home with me, and I didn't really know exactly what to do, but I got the general idea that if I lit it, and I inhaled it, tried to hold it a little bit, and then exhaled it, but what I didn't understand, and so the way I smoked it was, I smoked all three joints, one after the other, inhaled it, held it, and didn't take any breaths in between.

2:09:50SpeakerJust kind of how like you puff today. So unlike most people, I mean, more than half the people I met did not get high the first time they smoked. You know, they just, actually they were high a lot of them, but they didn't recognize people high because getting high is a learned experience. So, uh, I got totally, totally twisted. Psychedelic colors, people, you know, mild hallucinations, and I ended up a few blocks away at an international house of pancakes.

2:10:25SpeakerI ordered three large meals.

2:10:31SpeakerI hopped to food quite quickly after smoking.

2:10:34BubblemanOh my God, yeah, 25 cent joints, and of course, It's funny, it's like that's how you would learn how to do, that's the bar that you set for getting high for the rest of your life. And then, you know what, can I ask you, what moved you into cultivation, Sam?

2:10:53SpeakerWell, actually, the first time I cultivated, I just took some seeds out of some weed I got soon after that, and I planted them in Hollywood at a place called, on Sunset and Vine, called Wallach's Music City. It's a really famous music shop that used to be there in the 60s. And I planted it in the flower garden. It got about four or five inches tall and somebody else liberated it from the revolution.

2:11:25BubblemanGeez. That was the start. Next.

2:11:27SpeakerAnd then did you plant more? Yeah, then I, like a year later, I didn't actually plant it, but I was living in Laurel Canyon, and I noticed that outside my window, little plants were growing, because that's where I'd been dumping my seeds and stems. So, yeah, and I tried transplanting that, and it didn't do so good, and then I didn't really grow until... In the mid-70s, when I moved up to Santa Cruz and started Sacred Seeds.

2:12:05BubblemanAh, that's when Sacred Seeds got started.

2:12:08SpeakerI can't believe we both grew up in Laurel Canyon. Of all places in California, you have something in common. Well, I grew up in a very expensive city, and sometimes that environment is a little bit more outrageous.

2:12:21Etienne FontanYou know, it's crazy. I also grew up in Laurel Canyon when

2:12:28SpeakerYeah, but how many people grew it at Wallach's Music City? What? I said, how many people grew weed at Wallach's Music City?

2:12:42BubblemanNot I. But if I was in Cali in the last 20 years, I bet you I would have grown herb in Laurel Canyon. I'm just saying.

2:12:51SpeakerWell, that's where everybody who was in the music industry and the avant-garde art of any kind, a lot of them were living there and out at Topanga. So, yeah, it was... Two blocks up from my house was Frank Zappa. I used to go over to visit his house all the time and right up the street was Joni Mitchell and... David Crosby and people like that would come over and play music and I'd sit on their porch and listen.

2:13:26BubblemanNot too shabby.

2:13:29BubblemanPretty incredible. People are loving the stories in the chat. They're pretty stoked to hear these stories. We had a ball rip in here. We always need a bong rip in here.

2:13:41SpeakerOh, I agree. We definitely need a bong rip. Well, I will have to step a few steps away to take one, so if you only hear it very quietly in the distance.

2:13:54Etienne FontanSam, before you step away, what are you smoking right now just out of simple curiosity?

2:13:59SpeakerSomething a friend gave me. It's rosin. It's not super special, but it works.

2:14:08BubblemanA little rosin.

2:14:11SpeakerLong rip, turp dip.

2:14:20BubblemanAnd is Tony still there? Oh yeah, Tony's in the room. He's dipping. He's dabbing.

2:14:29SpeakerI'm really looking forward to your turps that you've sent me, Tony. They will be a godsend for... We need some modulation.

2:14:47SpeakerThat's a good purpose in place for them when people ask about them. That's what you want to do with them.

2:14:55BubblemanTurp mods. Yeah, people ask me all the time what to do with them, and I'm just like, I don't know, I'm pretty limited in what I do with them. I just kind of, sometimes I'll infuse little batches of hash or rosin, and other times I'll just dip. Dipping is just like, Boom! And it's so... It's kind of incredible how much it affects the positivity, the lift of the experience because I was hitting them, I was hitting them, I was hitting them, then I ran out and I just sort of stopped hitting them.

2:15:22BubblemanAnd then I remembered you saying you're never really out and then I started like dipping into empty jars and still getting like full flavor and full taste. So, it's pretty crazy.

2:15:35SpeakerYeah, the... I had a question for Sam. Um... We get a lot of, we were talking about, and I didn't read your email back, but there was a question, we were going back and forth about terpenes and how they affect our receptors or what receptors they affect when people say, well... Yeah, and I was suggesting that allosteric modulation might be involved in terpenes affecting the CB1 receptor.

2:16:09SpeakerYeah, could you explain that a little bit more, because I think the audience would like it. I'm probably the wrong guy to explain it. I can explain it. Okay. I'm the PhD.

2:16:19Etienne FontanHere we go.

2:16:20SpeakerOkay. One thing I'll say, Mark, is that CBD has recently been found to be an allostate modulator of the CB1 receptor. In other words, it affects either positively or negatively THC. Right, right. I'm actually, I just read that paper that you had posted the link to, and we can put that in the, that's the Fogato paper, the Hernandez-Fogato paper that you had sent. That's just a wonderful illustration of, again, your allosteric binding.

2:16:52SpeakerSo yeah, let's talk about that for a second. So the active site, and the way that these enzymes work, or the way that the binding sites work, is sometimes there's these things called allosteric sites that are active, We're going to talk a little bit about what's going on with the enzyme. I'm going to talk a little bit about what's going on with the enzyme. We're going to talk a little bit about what's going on with the enzyme.

2:17:16SpeakerWe're going to talk a little bit about what's going on with the enzyme.

2:17:34SpeakerSo it actually, in allosteric, there's inhibitors, but there's also agonists that will actually make these things work better. And I think that that's sort of like what we're talking about with terpenes, is that the terpenes actually, through allosteric mechanisms, which are mechanisms that aren't happening at the active site itself, but somewhere else, cause a... There's a lot of information out there. I'm not sure if you can see it, but there's a lot of information out there.

2:18:05SpeakerI'm not sure if you can see it, but there's a lot of information out there. There's a lot of information out there.

2:18:26SpeakerWe're going to talk a little bit about some of the things that we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about some of the things that we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about some of the things that we're going to talk about today.

2:18:53SpeakerWe're going to talk a little bit about what's happening in the cell. The cell is just turned on. I liken it to, again, opening the windows at your house. You're going to start exchanging stuff inside the cell and outside the cell. The allosteric mechanisms for the CB1 and I guess CB2 receptors, again, from my reading of this paper primarily, are now being exploited to understand how they make the receptors and the We've got a lot of great people here.

2:19:25SpeakerWe've got a lot of great people. We've got a lot of great people. We've got a lot of great people.

2:19:44SpeakerWhich I believe there's receptors for smell in your nose which are hardwired directly to the brain. It doesn't go through. It's a more direct path for smell. And I think that that might somehow be coming into play. Because when you can't smell terpenes when you have a cold, you can't get as high. Right. I want to say that what's happening is like whenever you're insulted with any kind of chemicals, be they terpenes, natural, unnatural chemicals, there's an immunological response in the body, again, because you're basically, and in some cases, it's funny, Stan, we were talking before about the dosing, what the proper dosing of these terpenes is, whether it's good to have like a drop and say, There's a lot of information out there, and I think it's important for you to know that there's a lot of information out there, and I think it's important for you to know that there's a lot of information out there, and I think it's

2:21:08SpeakerWhen you start really up-regulating all kinds of things in the cell because you're going to be expressing more cannabinoid receptors, and if you're expressing more cannabinoid receptors, that means you need less of the cannabinoid to, again, manifest the signal because there's just more receptors. I think that that's now been shown is that beta-caryophyllene, which is a very prevalent sesquiterpene in most strains of cannabis, Actually shows an upregulation at the genetic level.

2:21:43SpeakerSo the protein, the CB1 receptors are expressed more, and that's a genetic response at the genetic level because of exposure to beta-caryophyllene. Mark and Sam, I wanted to ask a follow-up question because this week's been big in my home with terpene research for gastrointestinal issues like gallbladder and so on. You mentioned things like oversaturation of terpenes and that receptor uptake. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I follow you, but we have a problem.

2:22:15SpeakerWhen it comes to eating terpenes, The amount that can be taken for even gallbladder is way higher than what one could even approach. Is it the vaporization of those terpenes that makes, because that's the thing. Functionally, I'm like, I'm experiencing more terpenes, but I'm not actually ingesting more. Yeah, you've got to remember, digestion in the gut, the gut essentially is too normal hydrochloric acid, and it'll basically chew up and do a lot of, Thank you for joining us.

2:23:02SpeakerSo when, sorry, just last part, because when you smell those terpenes, they're cold, and that regulation happens in the brain, and if you try to drink the whole vial, you do get, you know, you're going to get it through your sublingual and right down the mucosal lining before the acid vat. It I'm trying to get a sense of what's the appropriate dose therapeutically versus vaporized because when I'm starting to get all of this feedback about limonene and cancer and people asking me should they be taking it, they've read stuff, they get doses of 1,000 milligrams a day to people taking 20,000 milligrams and being fine.

2:23:41SpeakerAnd then I look at my TURP vial, John, and I'm like, that's 0.02, but if you vaporize it, your head explodes. Dr. Well, I think the perfect analogy would be the amount of menthol that's in a typical cough drop or a lozenge. I think, again, a lozenge is a great delivery vehicle because, for the most part, that's being absorbed sublingually. It's being absorbed into the oral mucosa, which is advanced of all the digestion and oxidation that's going to happen in the gut.

2:24:09SpeakerYou're basically, and you're getting it into the bloodstream Where the brain is because it's in the mouth. So I think, yeah, I really do think sublingual drops and like a lozenge or something like that. If you look at those like a Hall's menthol cough drop, which I think has menthol and maybe a few other terpenes that are in there, they're only in there in very, very small quantities.

2:24:35SpeakerI mean, I would say less than milligram quantities for a cough drop. Yeah. I was going to say I use... I use, you have to look at the milliliters per milliliters, you know, like when you're talking, I use very little amount of cannabis-derived terpenes in my sublinguals, and I do it by per gallon. So I found like very small amounts, like you're talking about if there's 3,875 milliliters in a gallon, you're talking, you know, under five milliliters.

2:25:14SpeakerYou know, in that comparison. So it's a very, very, very, very, very small amount. It goes a long way. It's almost like if I just take a drop or two in a batch, you can taste the dynamics in the sublingual quite a bit. And the last batches I've been doing, I've been using the orange creamsicle with the P4, and it's almost like it creates a chocolate orange taste.

2:25:41SpeakerSo the terpenes in with sublingual, I noticed it's a whole different world from smoking them. And I think that's where the true therapeutic comes from because there lies the parallel with when Mark says, hey, beta-chlorophylline has this response. And obviously that comes from evidence and it comes from research and papers. So I think if we were able to look at, say, fruits and vegetables in their raw state or their active state past 118 degrees, You would see the similar symbiotic relationship to the sensory of the nose and the food that you're putting into your body and how it responds.

2:26:21SpeakerSo if you're talking about limonene, look at how oranges work, right? And I always use this as an example. If you were given an orange and you couldn't smell the orange and the orange had no taste and you ate it, right, then how would your body respond to that orange? Would it absorb the vitamin C? Would it absorb the limonene the same way? If it didn't have a smell and it didn't have a taste.

2:26:49SpeakerSo it creates a very strange format to start testing those relationships. But I think there might be some ways to pull the parallel and similar research that's done on that. And maybe perhaps you would find the fact that cannabis has 200 plus terpenes available, that each one of those terpenes and their combinations of the nuances In such minor amount could create a such modulation that would create a positive or negative experience on the way not just your body signaled for pains and things but considering it keeps our body in homeostasis and regulates that same way foods do on another level.

2:27:31SpeakerSo I think there's probably quite a bit of synergistic properties between

2:27:40SpeakerTony, you mentioned caryophylline. Caryophylline was tried by me and Rob and the other folks that helped with our terpene work a decade ago, and caryophylline did not potentiate THC at all. In other words, myrcene did. It both potentiated and modulated it. Limelene did. It both potentiated and modulated. But caryophyllene, no. Now, of course, medical, that's a different thing. For recreational, caryophyllene, I don't think is of any use.

2:28:28SpeakerIt gets you out.

2:28:32SpeakerSo how are you doing some of those, how would our generation be able to continue work like that? To say, okay, once we start mapping them more, what would be the next move? Here's what we did. We took the 12 biggest terpenes and the 12 biggest cannabinoids, and then we spiked a single terpene, a small amount if we could, with a single cannabinoid. Primarily THC was what we focused on because we were looking at the recreational aspects more than the medicinal aspects.

2:29:09SpeakerWhat's a small amount? Please specify. A small amount of what? You said you took a small amount. What is a small amount? Oh, I don't know. Both. Okay, well the cannabinoids, mostly we were doing standard amounts, 25 milligrams, and we vaporized them in a volcano on top of a, what are those little, what do they call them, stainless steel pads, you know what I'm talking about?

2:29:40Etienne FontanYeah, those little extract pads. Yeah, those little Brillo pads that came in.

2:29:44SpeakerYeah, little stainless steel Brillo pads. That works fine and dandy for things like CBD powders or oils or whatever. And we tried all the major cannabinoids by themselves. Then we tried all the major cannabinoids with the various terpenes. But THC was our real focus, and we tried that with the various terpenes. Twenty-five milligrams of THC, and then we would spike it with the smallest amount of terpene that we could do, because even that maybe seemed more than we should use.

2:30:20SpeakerWell, I used to use a hypodermic syringe, so I had to squeeze out just the tiniest little drop from the needle. You understand what I mean? It was way less than a real drop, but it was enough to totally modulate and give us the answers about whether or not that improved THC or not. You're asking about what's the next step. The next step is, number one, you need pure THC.

2:30:49SpeakerAnd maybe pure CBD or any other cannabinoid you're interested in. But with pure THC, you eliminate any of the other variables that you get when you think you have almost pure THC that you've made from a resin. Once you have pure THC, you can start doing double-blind, 25 milligrams, spiked with various things. We never even got to the point where we started combining the 12. Because you figure it out, 12 times 12 is 144.

2:31:22SpeakerAnd Tony says there's 200. Well, I've never seen 200 terpenes from cannabis, but I've seen, say, 150 or so. And figure it out, 150 times 150, and that's several lifetimes of several people's worth of work.

2:31:49SpeakerIt needs to be done. There you go.

2:31:55Etienne FontanThat's a shout out to you future researchers.

2:31:59AaronExcellent. Excellent.

2:32:04SpeakerI'd like to say 200 because we always as humans think we got them all figured out so we have to give like a variance. A good another 50 that we may not know about. Combinations and maybe Maybe they're, they changed. We once ran some terpenes about three years ago, maybe four years ago, and just when we first started with this scientist guy, and we tested with the School of Mines, and they had found molecules in there they had never seen before, terpene molecules that were fuel, the same molecules as rocket fuel.

2:32:46SpeakerSo It was really interesting to talk with them and the possibilities of not just the combinations of them, but then what would happen to those terpenes if they're exposed to different types of gases and pressures and different transformations and things that they could form into themselves. So I don't know if there's any evidence out there or information about that, but But yeah, that was something that we found about four years ago at the School of Mines.

2:33:19SpeakerThe 150 terpenes I'm talking about are made by the plant. As Mark has mentioned before, So, microbes can attack terpenes and make derivatives, and terpenes can break down by the processing, as you mentioned before, Tony, but those aren't made by the plant. They're degradation products. More like CBN is produced by a degradation product, but it's not produced by the plant. CBN is a degradation product of THC.

2:33:49SpeakerSo, that's interesting. How many? 150? Well, there's 140 I've seen listed in the literature, and I found another handful. So I'd say there's at least 150 published in the literature which are produced by the cannabis plant and have been found in cannabis. That's kind of similar to music, Mark. 144, 12 chromatic notes.

2:34:18SpeakerWell, that's in Western music. In Eastern music, you got, like, with the Tibetan drums, you got the half notes and you have the notes in between the notes. But, yeah, I mean, it's amazing. So whenever you have a multitude of possibilities like this, I think... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:35:00SpeakerMark, it's also how jazz works and how Indian sitar, rocker music works. Variations on a theme. Right, right. And it's almost stochastic. Stochastic is another crazy word. It's like, it's noisy, but in the noise there's sense. And, you know, I don't know, I was referred to this comment earlier this week when the Uh, uh, Branford Marcellus, or no, Wynton Marcellus was quoting Miles Davis on sound, and what Miles Davis said about sound is, you know, there are some things in this world that just are.

2:35:40SpeakerLike, sound just is, and so when you look at what the cannabis plant makes, it just This is what the plant makes, and I would say that whether or not we know it's 150 or 200, it doesn't make a difference really what the number is. What makes a difference is when we extract the medicine from the plant, can we quantitate everything that we have? The plant makes a bunch of things, but they're just fleeting and certainly part of the essence of the strain when you walk through the garden, but they're essentially not You're either in the curing process or not captured in the extraction process.

2:36:21SpeakerEven 150, we could probably break it down to under 20 different terpenes that are the major terpenes found in cannabis and probably characterize 98% of the material that you're looking at. I think you're probably correct on that. Maybe really small amounts do cause variations. Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's the beautiful thing, too. I mean, we were talking about color on the Facebook chat, too, Sam, where, again, extinction coefficient, when it comes to color, think of some compounds having a very high extinction coefficient, so a very, very little amount of the compound can impart color on the gross bulk mixture of the hash.

2:37:08SpeakerSame thing with smell. And same thing with taste. A small amount of a bitter or a small amount of a sweet compound in a mixture of many other sweet or many other fruity compounds can really change it. And the craziest one is like You have cat piss. You have cat piss strain that smells actually like cat piss. How do you take these fruity, floral, very vibrant smelling, woody, barky notes that you get from terpenes and turn it into cat piss by just changing the ratios or having some different ratio of terpenes that are in there?

2:37:48SpeakerDr. To ammonia. Yeah, is that right? So is it just an ammonia smell? I'm guessing. I don't know. I think there's actually a terpene profile, again, for the Super Skunk that was really kind of counterintuitive because you would think that if you looked at the terpene profile, you'd be like, oh, that's going to smell very floral or very fruity. And no, it smelled like someone just stepped in dog shit.

2:38:25BubblemanJust reading the chat, trying to keep up with what everyone's saying. It's been pretty solid live viewers. We've kept it over a thousand for a couple of hours here. That's good to see. Lots of people listening in and enjoying these stories.

2:38:38SpeakerWhat do you think are some of the biggest advancements in growing in your career? What do I think are the biggest advancements? Yeah, that you've seen. Obviously, you've been growing now for like four decades plus, you know, and obviously you've seen all the technologies come into fruition. Okay. I was wondering what you think was most, you know, useful to you as a grower and a greenhouse operator and breeder.

2:39:03SpeakerWhen we started, everybody was growing outdoors in the 60s. And... That worked if your variety would mature before the cold came and got it. And most people didn't. But then people started using first a little bit of fluorescence, but it didn't really give any yield. And then they started using halides and sodiums, and they started cloning. And seeds started being widely available. And really at that point, the governments have lost the war on cannabis.

2:39:46SpeakerIt was over. They just didn't know it yet. It would take a couple decades for the light to go on in their head. But they lost. As soon as clones, seeds, artificial lights, they lost. But... I think the biggest change after that was when I came over here, everybody was using clones, and also in greenhouses, automated darkening systems. They were already used in the flower industry and chrysanthemums and things like that, and we just adapted them as soon as I saw one in 1984.

2:40:23SpeakerI just said, Jesus Christ, because I understood immediately. That if you could control photo period in a greenhouse, then you are controlling when it flowers. And that really did change everything, because you could quite literally grow four crops a year in a greenhouse, but you needed supplemental lighting in the Netherlands.

2:40:52Etienne FontanIn some areas, you could grow four, which is dark to me.

2:41:00SpeakerI think the biggest change in the future will be DNA-assisted plant breeding. Plant breeding up until recently has been actually quite primitive. Now, we obviously can try to grab onto what we really like, and we know from experience what turns our crank and what doesn't turn our crank. So we breed towards what does turn our crank. That's why I was thinking that very likely the best terpenes have already been identified because they're probably in the varieties that people have been selecting for hundreds of years.

2:41:46SpeakerGanja growers are not going to be selecting the ones they don't like. Whereas hashish farmers, all they're doing is selecting for the plants that give the most resin. It's really a different selection process. With cannabis, with ganja farmers, they can grow each individual plant and save the seeds of the one they like and discard all the rest.

2:42:15SpeakerSo maybe that's it, Todd. There's probably more things. Well, can I ask you a couple of, you know, now there's a big talk about autoflowering and female seeds. And in America, we don't see it as much as it's common in Europe. And I would love, I mean, a lot of people ask me some of the most common questions I get from people are, you know, how are they making autoflowering seeds?

2:42:39SpeakerAnd I would love you to talk about that for just a moment. Well, I'm probably the wrong person to talk to about autoflowering because I have not done a lot of work with it. In fact, when the first autoflowering was introduced by Neville from Cannabis Castle, he had gone to Hungary and collected some either escaped or ruderalis or something on the side of a road, and it had autoflowering characteristics.

2:43:09SpeakerBut It was a different kind of autoflower because it was the kind that it would start flowering and as long as it was kept warm, regardless of the photo period, it would continue flowering. Now, cannabis really requires not only vegetative growth to get big enough, flowering to, you know, get lots of biomass to cover with resin, but then at the very end, The last few weeks of flowering, most cannabis varieties have a tendency to frost out.

2:43:46SpeakerYou know, that's when they really pack in the resin. There can be twice as much resin as the previous however many weeks of flowering. But with these auto flowering varieties, In the ones Neville had, they don't really ever transition to that last gear. So they will grow vegetatively, they'll flower, but then they just keep flowering, and they never stop flowering and frost out. So me and Rob really fundamentally did not like them.

2:44:20SpeakerBut now people are using different, either ruderalis or whatever. I've heard they're using finola. Which I would find humorous as hell because I developed Fanola. What is Ruderalis then? Ruderalis, that's a good question. Is it real? Well, nobody's 100% sure. DNA will tell us. It will answer this. But nobody's really sure. And it's either escaped cannabis that was under cultivation for whatever purpose. Or it is wild populations or, yeah, nobody's really sure.

2:45:02SpeakerRob is 100% convinced the stuff that Neville found in Hungary was escaped. Now, if we had it now, we could tell because we could test it and compare it to the hemp varieties grown nearby and see if it's related. But, yeah. Now, I don't think we have any of the original Ruderalis seeds that Neville brought back. The problem with Ruderalis, of course, is because it wants to flower even under a short photo, long photo period, it could be impossible to maintain clones.

2:45:39SpeakerBut it actually can be done. You grow a plant, as soon as it starts, before it starts to flower, you... You in vitro clone it, meristem clone it. And they don't, and if you grow it in cellular culture, as individual cells, they don't respond to photoperiod. So you can keep them in suspended animation for years and years, take them out, and then regenerate them into full plants and use them as maintained clones of ruderalis varieties.

2:46:19SpeakerI appreciate you taking the moment to answer that. A lot of talk about all-female seeds. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with using all-female genetics. The only problem is the plants selected for that female transformation. If you take plants that are high in intersex, And you use them to transform them into even male pollen or to pollinate a transformed plant to create all female seeds. And either parent has intersex traits, then, of course, the progeny will have intersex traits.

2:47:09SpeakerLike begats like. If you don't want intersex plants, don't use intersex parents or grow huge populations of the intersex parents from seed and find ones that are less intersex. Dr. Okay. So people that are looking at these things too, Simon of Serious Seeds explained to me that he did not like autoflowering because it was half the potency of the parent plant. He didn't mind feminized because it was just as potent as the parent plant.

2:47:47SpeakerDo you think that's your experience too, Sam? That certainly could be true, but that's just because whatever plant that he's using as the donator of the autumn flowering teams is not potent. So if he can find a potent one with two sets We're going to have a little bit of time for questions and answers. We're going to have a little bit of time for questions

2:48:31SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:48:57BubblemanMy Instagram and my social media, you know, come check us out on Hash Church Live, Skunk Man Sam, sharing some knowledge. It's always a pleasure to have you come in and I know that nobody minds that you're staying off camera as long as you're sharing with your voice.

2:49:14SpeakerWell, how do you feel about the evolution of the cannabis scene in Amsterdam? I mean, you know, obviously you've been there for the whole game, it feels like. There is no scene in Amsterdam. The devolution. It's someplace else. Wow, what a bummer. They're down in Spain, are they? No warmer territory. Or in Oakland or in Vancouver. Yeah.

2:49:42BubblemanIt was 27 years strong, almost got 30 years out of like the crazy full-on cannabis cup madness.

2:49:50SpeakerYeah, and I have lived here 30 years. Right. Wow. It's sad what's happened to Amsterdam. It was such a beacon of light for us all when we went there, at least for me a couple decades ago, and it's sad how it's changed. When I moved to Amsterdam, it was legal to grow cannabis for seeds in a greenhouse. It wasn't legal to use the cannabis or sell it, but it was legal to grow cannabis seeds in a greenhouse.

2:50:25SpeakerThat's awesome.

2:50:29SpeakerActually, it still is legal to grow cannabis seeds outdoors in Holland, but the trouble is I don't think there's any variety you can grow outdoors in Holland. Maybe one or two of the other ones. Yeah, you probably can't grow the outer ones outdoors. So you feel a lot of the, what was the Dutch seed industry has moved down to Spain with the relaxed laws and the culture shift that's happened down there for sure?

2:50:55SpeakerAt least three quarters of them. They do their work in Spain and they ship out of Spain or England. Yeah, well they got a much better climate for the whole situation so it makes clear sense why they would, you know, head towards the sunshine.

2:51:13BubblemanWell, they stepped it up. Their hash game is on point. The last few years I've gone to Barcelona, I've been quite impressed with just the overall quality. It's not just like one or two commercial strains that everyone has. It's like a variety of all different things, and people have made them a variety of ways. I've been pretty impressed with the quality that's there. Might have to... Might have to do a Legends of Hash there, Sam, this March.

2:51:42BubblemanWhat do you say? Should we do it? Where? In Barcelona. Spain.

2:51:48SpeakerWell, that's an idea. I mean, you've got to remember, the guy who won Legends last year with his tricep, it was actually coming from, I think it was Spanish. Well, he lives in Spain, but I mean, there are... They picked up the ball when the ball got dropped here in Amsterdam.

2:52:13BubblemanYeah, it seems like a lot of good people moved down there and even when I asked Soma how long it had been, he said it was just in the last like three to four years maximum because he said even in 2011, I believe, he was still bringing his own stash and he was like 2012, 2013, 2014, I no longer had to bring

2:52:37BubblemanYou know, they have beautiful, great stuff here of my own strains that's growing from different people.

2:52:42SpeakerWe opened the museum in May of 2012 down there, and there was a very limited social club scene happening. There was a handful of places, literally like you could count on one hand, that you could go to partake in what was very new legislation and new rules. People were just getting comfortable trying to, you know, get together and have a bit of a collective, you know. It goes to show in a way how ahead of the time Positronics was being a club where you joined and you got a key and you paid a due and you were all part of the same kind of team.

2:53:16SpeakerYeah.

2:53:17Etienne FontanPositronics was amazing though, dude. Positronics was the standard. I mean, it's what a lot of us, it's what, you know, I know Richard and a lot of us have all patterned ourselves off of, you know. You know, they were the originators.

2:53:30SpeakerPositronics was first and did a lot of things, but it also... Crumbled because of... Just poor decisions by Bernard.

2:53:42BubblemanLike not charging people money at the restaurant, but just letting people pay?

2:53:46SpeakerNo, no, no, no. I can explain that. It's because we had an illegal cantina, Mark, and we weren't allowed to do the food, so it was only for the staff. But if you were a member of the Sense Amelia fan club, you could make a donation and we would give you food. So we sold the hash in the grass at the cash register. That was legal. We had to hide the brownies, and we couldn't charge you for the veggie pate.

2:54:09SpeakerAnd what I was really talking about, Todd, was the fact that after years and years of that place being a fairly good financial success, Bernard still paid all of his employees minimum wage. And in the end, everything got stolen from the inside employees, selling it to their friends at really cheap costs. You know, I worked there for a year, and I mean, what I saw really take it down was when the guy that was running the head botanist, half the team did work in the office, did soft secrets, sold seeds, worked in the canteen, and the other half were what we called the green team.

2:54:47SpeakerAnd one of the members of the green team, we ran into a problem with plants, because we were bringing in plants as much as we were selling plants, and we got bugs. And he used pesticides that were organic, like, you know, just Safer Soap type stuffs, and potassium salts and such, but he didn't tell Renard, and Renard freaked out because he had the babies crawling around, and he fired him, Marcel, and half of the staff walked out in protest and took a sick leave, and he had to pay them, and we went from like 48 people to like 22 people almost overnight, and then he had an internal theft problem, and it was really sad what actually happened to him because It's what it was.

2:55:30SpeakerInternal theft problem. Yeah, you did. I could go on about it, but I won't. But yeah, the one guy that was making the deposits didn't come to work one day, and we found out all the bills weren't getting paid. I was working on that. People afterward were paid, but they would go there and buy several thousand worth of lights and other stuff and not pay anything. I can't, you know, answer to that because, you know, it was, I don't even speak the language literally.

2:55:58SpeakerSo, you know, I was doing my best to help out. I mean, in 1996, it was really, the whole place was full of plants from me and old Ed Holloway. We lost the green team. I've lived here for 30 years and sooner or later, I hear pretty much everything. It's embarrassing. You were there for the first, remember we did the first Cannabis College, Rob was the teacher, you were the heckler.

2:56:28SpeakerI was the teacher's assistant. He probably deserved it. He probably deserved it. No, that was good times, man. That was a long time ago. That would be November of 96. We did that first, the first Cannabis College.

2:56:45Etienne FontanA million years ago.

2:56:48SpeakerI was there. You were there for it, weren't you? Yeah, doing it right there in front of the mother room.

2:56:55Etienne FontanDan Rather as well showed up.

2:57:01SpeakerNo, it was Morley Schaefer. Dan Rather was not out there. Morley Schaefer was chain smoking cigarettes wearing a trench coat. Looked like walking death. And I had to go with him to bring him to all these coffee shops and all he did, all he did was smoke and smoke and smoke cigarettes. He didn't want to try cannabis and I was like, you know it's a better alternative.

2:57:23SpeakerHe just looked at me and smoked his cigarettes.

2:57:25BubblemanThat was 95, right? Morley Schaefer?

2:57:28SpeakerMorley Schaefer would have been 95, yeah. So you know what, maybe that was 95 we did it that year. I did it, no I thought it was 96 I did it. I thought I did the Cannabis College in 96, but Morley was there in 95. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The 60 Minutes clip. Oh, we used to think change was just around the corner. Change is just around the corner.

2:57:52SpeakerIt's just taken a lot longer. There was a lot more corners.

2:57:56Etienne FontanRight. It was a bigger corner than we thought it was going to be.

2:58:00SpeakerI'm sorry. We'll see you guys later after your nap, okay? It's sure not what I expected to see happen in Amsterdam.

2:58:11SpeakerNo, but you know, it's funny because cannabis is like a giant waterbed. And two things. Number one is, wherever the authorities push it down, it just pops up someplace else. And the other thing is that wherever superior cannabis technology or quality or cheap prices exist, cannabis osmosis, one of the basic physics principles of the universe, makes sure that it gets every place else it needs it.

2:58:51SpeakerCannabis has been very good at disseminating itself, yes.

2:58:57BubblemanThere we go. I had my little boy visiting me for a while on my lap. My wife had to keep him in.

2:59:02Etienne FontanAnd look who just popped in, Mr. Mel.

2:59:07BubblemanMr. Mel in the house. But is he in the house or is it just a picture? Are you there? Oh, he's on mute too so we don't even know if he's there because he can't be replying.

2:59:21Etienne FontanThe plant has done a great job of convincing us humans to propagate it and keep it alive and to breed it.

2:59:31SpeakerWe're all just getting manipulated by a flower? That's kind of effed up. He made it in! And that's my photo too. So I sent a link to Mel Frank, and it looks like he's kind of here.

2:59:45BubblemanYeah, we were just talking about that. We can't hear him because he's on mute, and I'm not sure if his camera's working, but hopefully we can walk him through that. Um...

3:00:03BubblemanYes, just unmuting the mic is a good start. I think sometimes people come in on phones and it's not quite as easy to see all the little, you know, like on a computer it's very simple. There's only really a few buttons at the top and like five or whatever, six, and the microphone is of course one of them.

3:00:25BubblemanMight be time for a bong rip turp dip.

3:00:27SpeakerOh.

3:00:32BubblemanBong Rip. Lemon Pie as my modulator.

3:00:41BubblemanSome Hindu on the bubs.

3:00:45SpeakerAnd where is that from, Mark?

3:00:47BubblemanHindu Kush from what? I'd have to ask my friends that grow it. I'd have to ask them where they got that strain from.

3:00:56SpeakerBecause my Hindu Kush that I distributed through Sacred Seeds and Cultivators Choice was one of the first, but it was not the first, it was not the only one. So I'm always curious when people say Hindu Kush, what they mean. Absolutely. That Hindu Kush could have been possibly something that what you're just talking about because it's definitely been grown for, I know for a fact, over 15 years, probably 17, maybe a little longer.

3:01:30SpeakerI'd probably say 15 to 17 years. The guy that grew it was Bob the Snodgrass III. A Dutchman distributed it as pot of gold. That's the same Hindu Kush, but times together. Okay, okay. Well, it's definitely very unique. It was grown by Bob Snodgrass III, so third generation of the Snodgrass. So it's been around a long, long time. What I liked Hindu Kush for was it was a good variety for making dry sin or wild grass or

3:02:19SpeakerI think you might have some of that coming.

3:02:25SpeakerOh, man. And that was the lemon pie. All turp cured out. The one thing about these little battery-operated things when you're on the go, it really sucks when the battery runs out.

3:02:43BubblemanYeah, all of those battery operated things suck when the battery runs out. You just... An electric version that's like charges with sun or kinetic motion or whatever.

3:02:55SpeakerYeah.

3:02:56BubblemanWear that shit on your ankle and walk around for half the day and you know you've got some dabs available to you.

3:03:01SpeakerWhat you really want is so that you're ready for everything is a piezoelectric dabber. So you can just squeeze it with your hand.

3:03:12BubblemanYeah, that'd be nice. You put some thought into that.

3:03:19SpeakerOh, we lost Tony. He's going to try to make it in next week. We're chatting over here. He tried to log on and he's having technical difficulties. He said he apologized and he'll be on next week.

3:03:32BubblemanOh, it's just a taster.

3:03:36SpeakerYou know, hey, it gets an A for effort. Absolutely.

3:03:41BubblemanAbsolutely. Absolutely.

3:03:45SpeakerIt would be really nice to have both you and, you know, Sam and Mel Frank on. I mean, you guys pioneered a lot of the education that we received and did so much with. So it would be really nice to have you guys both talking about some of the things that, some of the milestones in your lives that you felt like sharing.

3:04:07SpeakerWell, I would agree that...

3:04:11SpeakerMel's book was the first one that was a full comprehensive book on the subject. You know, because I was a colleague of Rob Clark's and I was familiar with his thesis before it came out as marijuana botany because he had a thesis out called Marijuana Ecology that came out and when he first published that he had delivered a copy to my house because he was curious who lived in Santa Cruz and was buying his book.

3:04:47SpeakerThat's wild. What year was that?

3:04:52Speaker77, or 76, 77.

3:04:57SpeakerI was just given number 57 of 500 yesterday by his old roommate, Sam. 57 of 500? Of the first 500.

3:05:10SpeakerOh, that's for the botany, yeah. That is his first, yep, the very first one. Yep. Yeah, it's in perfect shape, too. He kept it, like, unbelievable. I don't even want to touch it. It's so perfect. You can wear those little cotton gloves. I hope I get to that place in my life where I have a collection full of stuff that I need cotton gloves for.

3:05:38BubblemanSo definitely photograph a page or two and share it in the Hash Church group.

3:05:44SpeakerIt's amazing. You know what I want to do for Rob is try to somehow duplicate it without hurting my copy so that we can digitalize it and he can share it because it's such a, he put so much work into it. When he showed me how he did it and he did it all by hand, it was really a labor of love.

3:06:03SpeakerWell, when I got that, I was pretty impressed. I got to meet this guy.

3:06:13SpeakerThat's fantastic. That would make clean sense. Yeah, yeah. And what a guy. I mean, and he's still at it. All the time he spent with me, you know, working, writing away, putting a piece together called Fragrant Medicine that's going to appear in my next book about terpenes. And it's amazing. You've already read it, of course, Sam. I added to it. I know, and I thank you. Beautiful.

3:06:40SpeakerI haven't seen Kenny's new book. I mean, I've seen it online, but I haven't read Kenny's new book. I'm quite curious about that one. Well, we'll have one in the mail to you Monday. I can see about that. I just got my copy of it. He brought it over for me and Rob, actually. And I've got to say, it's just what you'd expect from Kenny. It's thick and thorough.

3:07:06SpeakerAnd very impressive. I think it's really going to be probably considered, you know, one of the best books of its time.

3:07:16Etienne FontanYeah, I got my copy the other day as well, and I'm just starting to crack into it, and it's easy. You got a lot of good in it.

3:07:27BubblemanYeah, I got to get a copy of that for sure. Looks good.

3:07:30SpeakerI believe Amazon is shipping at this point, so anybody that wants to can just go on it and get it. It's not very expensive. It took them seven years to write. It took a lot of work, and making a book is not an easy task, as anyone who's made a book knows.

3:07:47BubblemanAnd as many people that have never made a book know, because the obstacles just seem to be too great.

3:07:54SpeakerI'm proud to have images in it, of course. You have so many great images in it, Mark. I was just looking through. It's awesome.

3:08:04BubblemanOh, dude. Then I'm getting a copy for sure.

3:08:07SpeakerYou are. Yours look great. You are highlighted beautifully. I mean, really.

3:08:12BubblemanWow, that's cool. I've only really seen the cover of the book.

3:08:16SpeakerHave you seen one of those before, Mark? Oh, yeah, yeah. Look at that. Once or twice, right? Once or twice.

3:08:24BubblemanSuper mambo version.

3:08:26SpeakerEvery bit. People are going to love this from Ash Church because really it's you breaking it on down, using the bubble bags, making sieves hash. For those who don't know, Mark was a huge contributor to this book, and rightly so. The technology and the innovation has been really pivotal in our hash appreciation.

3:08:48BubblemanI honestly had no idea that I had that much shit in that book. That's amazing.

3:08:52SpeakerThese are my images. This one's not, but these sets are mine. I don't have nearly as many as you do. I'm a bit envious, actually.

3:09:04Etienne FontanWell, we also got Andre Grossman with the photos, too. And Andre is a great photographer.

3:09:08BubblemanNice. I haven't seen Andre in, like, over, way over a decade.

3:09:14Etienne FontanYeah, he's fallen off the scene. I haven't seen him since I was in New York. I went to his studio, and it's been, yeah, it's been almost two decades.

3:09:21BubblemanLast time I really talked to him was just after 9-11. He was telling me all about his intense situation of being in the city and everything, how his experience, basically, and it was really the last time I talked to him. Hope you're doing okay out there, Andre Grossman. You always impressed me as a photographer. I always loved your ability to... I guess just take attention to detail.

3:09:47BubblemanLike, he took attention to detail to the next level.

3:09:50SpeakerHis photos are beautiful. He has quite a few really nice photos in here, actually. Have you ever seen him shoot? This is one of them right here. Have you seen him shoot before? Seen what, Mark?

3:10:03BubblemanYou get this. Have you ever watched him shoot, take pictures?

3:10:07SpeakerOh, I've been with him while he was working, yes. In Holland, I certainly have, yeah. I kind of helped out a little bit, just trying to be polite.

3:10:13BubblemanSure, yeah, it's quite something, especially, you know, when he sets everything out. Sets everything up. It's impressive. Gets his little scope on the back of the camera, looking closer up. Pretty cool. Hey, puppy. Making an appearance on Hash Church.

3:10:33SpeakerOf course. But have you seen this? Check this out, Mark. Here's the latest... So this sample goes right here. I can move it this way, this way, and I can spin it. So we're pretty soon going to have spinning buds coming out. And then this is fixed, and it's unbelievable.

3:10:53BubblemanMan, I still take everything freehand. I don't even use my tripod anymore with my macro because I find that it just, I guess I've learned how to move my camera around that sort of macro world, and I find when my camera's attached, I lose that ability to like, because I'll see something I like, and then I'm like, oh, all I have to do is do this and come at it from this different angle, and all of a sudden the perfect shot is there, so.

3:11:21SpeakerRight. The difference is now is it's going to take not just layered photos, but photos as it spins. So it's then going to actually turn it into these little 3D virtual objects. And it's, you're going to like it. I'm trying to take the quality of the way we see things to a new level. I mean, you and I have always had a real detail for our photography and I for our photography.

3:11:43SpeakerAnd now that we're going digital with it, I think people can really, you know, beyond Instagram. Instagram just sucks for photos as much as it's only for photos. It doesn't really let you blow up and look at things and see anywhere near the quality of what we're shooting. So, Going forward, that's some of the things I really want to highlight, you know, so people really can see parts of the plant that they've never been able to see up close.

3:12:05BubblemanWhen you're posting the 40 meg photo on Instagram and they just can't even zoom in on it.

3:12:12SpeakerInstagram has a long way to go.

3:12:14BubblemanThey're looking at it on a like one and a half by two inch screen.

3:12:20SpeakerYeah.

3:12:21BubblemanWell, that's cool. I'll look forward to seeing those 3D shots. I do love the idea of taking... Taking it to the next level. Someone asked me what I shoot with. I shoot with a 5D Mark III and, of course, the MPE lens that is a 65mm. Great lens. Oh, yeah. Someone else already answered. Look at that. Lots of people asked me that question. Holy, over the years, a lot of people have asked me that question.

3:12:54BubblemanHow about this cup my mom made me? Thanks, Mom. Is it hemp?

3:13:04BubblemanIt's definitely not hemp. Weird that the bubble man and the... That won't come out. That would be cool, a little ceramic hemp glass.

3:13:20BubblemanJust checking out what the chat room's saying. Mostly talking about macro and the cannabis, or that lens that we just mentioned, the MPE. And my mom, of course, giving my mom shoutouts. What a nice mom. She could have potentially even been working for the police while she gave this to me. I can't remember if she was retired, but she spent like near 30 years being like a 911 operator for the Winnipeg police.

3:13:47BubblemanSo that was quite, that was something.

3:13:56BubblemanWhat's in the mug today, B-Man? Well, what's in my mug? Beautiful H2O. No sugar added. I'm done with all these juices and drinks that are just like sugar and sugar and sugar and it makes you want more and it doesn't quench your thirst. I've been drinking a shit ton of water lately. I mean, I always have, but really even more because I've cut those drinks out completely.

3:14:22BubblemanWhat about when you're in Jamaica? Don't you drink ting? I had a few ting. I had, I have to admit, more of the juices from like, you know, Just Natural and stuff. But yeah, there was tings. There was, what's the other one? The ginger beer. I was doing those legit ginger beers. Gotta say they're not too bad. I'm just trying to drink more water now. It's good to drink more water.

3:14:54BubblemanWater's good for you.

3:14:58BubblemanShit was... Start packing on the weight if you start drinking too much of that stuff. As we get older, this is what happens. Does anyone want to comment? Unless you're Aaron, because as he gets older, he just loses more weight.

3:15:17BubblemanThat's what I'm saying. Right on, right on. Using cannabis for positive reasons.

3:15:24SpeakerActually, what I've found is that if you smoke enough cannabis, your age is reversed.

3:15:30BubblemanThat's what I'm talking about. Good old cannabis, hey? Does keep you young. Definitely more so. I'll tell you one thing. If this panel right here of, like, people that are, like, what I would call fairly excessive cannabis users, if we were doing this to alcohol, we would all look very different.

3:15:48Etienne FontanOh, our noses would be much larger. Oh, my God.

3:15:53BubblemanThe chat would have a big red nose and we'd all just be like drinking our whiskeys.

3:15:58SpeakerI'm going on YouTube to find out if there's a Google chat of people getting wasted on booze for four hours once a week. Like it's either a good show or like the show like ends because like a guy's face hits the end button and weird shit. It's probably called the drunk tank.

3:16:15BubblemanCould you imagine that?

3:16:17SpeakerI would love to see poor people do shots for four hours and try to make any sense at the end of that four hours.

3:16:22BubblemanI just did imagine that.

3:16:26SpeakerDrunk church.

3:16:27BubblemanBar church. I'll tell you. Liquor church.

3:16:30SpeakerThat's where regular church is, right?

3:16:33BubblemanYou know who could pull it off? The Trailer Boys could pull it off. You get Julian from the Trailer Park Boys being the main sort of host with his little Jack and Coke or whatever it is he drinks.

3:16:44SpeakerRum and Coke. What might be just as funny is get hash church but with people who have never smoked and get them to smoke large volumes of dabs. So we all bring a guest and then waste them?

3:17:00Etienne FontanIt would be face plant church then.

3:17:03BubblemanHey, you know what? People can see it. There's been guests that have come on and annihilated themselves by getting too stoned and then just been kind of like, shit, that's harder than I thought it was. We could all bring our mom on. There you go. My mom would come on for sure.

3:17:20Etienne FontanYeah, I would have to say this panel has a, especially the regulars, have a large tolerance for high quantities of THC, whereas we've definitely seen with those who don't come on and, yeah, not so much.

3:17:38Etienne FontanTo enunciate and communicate, right, Mark, Mr. Skeldown, right? You know, you've got to have a certain amount of saturation, you know.

3:17:46SpeakerIt helps to be a little lubricated.

3:17:48BubblemanHey, someone asked a question a while ago. It was for Skunk Man Sam, and it was about where he would like to see the breeding of cannabis go in the next, like, you know, in the future here, in the next 10 or 20 years. What would you like to see some of the focuses be on breeding?

3:18:06SpeakerWell, that's really easy. The number one subject should really be breeding for terpenes, not only to increase the terpenes, but to amplify the terpenes that you want to for a particular type of effect and decrease any terpenes that are negative for that type of an effect. I mean, it's so obvious. It's already been done for cannabinoids. There are varieties which are basically pure THC in a really large amount.

3:18:40SpeakerNo other cannabinoids. There's varieties that are only CBD. There's varieties which are pretty much THCB or CBC or CBG. These have all been created by normal classical breeding. And the exact same thing could be done with terpenes so that we could have single terpene varieties. So imagine it's got 10, 20% THC and only myosin or only limelane. And you do that for the top 20, 30, 50 terpenes and then people would really quickly understand What is beneficial for what?

3:19:25SpeakerAnd they could blend the herbal cannabis. It'd all be high in THC, but then they'd have combinations of terpenes.

3:19:33Etienne FontanI was about to say the blending then would be the exponential part there because then you have stables to begin with so you could actually blend it. 10%, 20%, 30% accordingly.

3:19:44SpeakerBlended, but also what you can do is once you find out what ratio is most beneficial for most patients, you can breed a variety that has that fixed ratio. Hey, what do you know about CBDV? It's a propyl homolog of THC, of CBD, yeah. There's also...

3:20:11SpeakerDid you say CBCV or THCV?

3:20:14BubblemanI said CBDV. I think Chimera was on church a few weeks ago talking about it.

3:20:19SpeakerYeah, well, basically if you have propyl homologs being produced in your plant like THCV, then you're probably getting small amounts if there's any CBD or CBC. It's coming up in the propyl homolog version. You're getting all of them. Why wouldn't you get all of them? It's just the same chemistry. Well, the reason you wouldn't get all of them is for the same reason that when you grow cannabis, you don't get all the cannabinoids.

3:20:49SpeakerIn other words, you don't get with every plant all THC, CBD, CBC, CBG. You get Whatever the plant is genetically wired for. Oh, no, no, no. That's exactly what I'm saying, but the point is that if that CBGA with the C3 tail is made, then there are going to be varieties that they're going to take that to the THC version, which is THCV. If they have the synthases correct.

3:21:23SpeakerRight, right, right. That's the only point I was making. Well, and that's why about... Three months ago I posted about that Ringo's Gift. Ringo's Gift is 10% CBD, 0.03% THC, and 2% and 100% mercine, no other terpene. So that means it's 30 to 1? So 30 to 1 with isolated mercine terpene only in it. Tony, get me a link for that because I'm very interested in studying the...

3:21:59SpeakerThe inheritance and even more so the expression of CBD genes and to see if there's more than one version of CBD genes and things like that. So if I can just get a dead dry leap of it, I'll talk to you later about making it happen. I've got a few more of his too that are like the Harley Sue that has all myrcene and then only one.

3:22:26SpeakerOther terpene as well. So he's got both versions. I'll get them both for you. Yeah, it's not the terpenes that I'm focused in on. I'm interested in different background plants that have high CBD with as low THC. So what I'd really like would be 100 or 200 to 1 CBD to THC. But so far the best I've heard is 40 to 1.

3:22:55BubblemanJohnny B had a question. He said, do you think hemp can convert into some THC through extraction process? Mark and Sam. No. That's the quick answer right there.

3:23:10SpeakerI didn't understand the question. What are they asking? John's kind of asking, can you destroy CBD through the process, therefore increasing the ratio of THC in the final product? But I misunderstood. I thought he was asking, is the CBD converted to THC? Well, how would you destroy the CBD without destroying the THC? You can convert CBD to THC. Unfortunately, it isomerizes the Delta 9 over to the less active Delta 8, so that's a known process.

3:23:49SpeakerThat I've seen. I've done that to my own product inadvertently. Yeah, it used to be advertised for really low quality marijuana, but the only trouble was It had, the low quality marijuana also had such low levels of CBD that it wasn't worth isomerizing to THC.

3:24:18SpeakerI've got to do something with that crap.

3:24:25BubblemanWell, there it is.

3:24:28SpeakerSam, I've got a question for you because I mean everyone's talking about breeding for terpenes and but then there's the whole side of just making a correct selection and I kind of decided this logic that if a plant really was going to express itself on with any Thank you for joining us.

3:25:14SpeakerWith seedlings, I think that's pretty difficult. I mean, from seed, even little tiny seedlings, if you analyze the cannabinoid profile, the profile doesn't really significantly change. Only the absolute amounts increase with maturation of the female flowers and stuff. But whereas with terpenes, I don't think that is true. I don't really have the work one way or the other, but I just know that the plants don't smell the same when they're vegetative as when they do when they're flowering.

3:25:55SpeakerThat's because I think the terpenes are primarily being produced in resin on flowers or leaves, but it's The resin that's on little tiny seedlings is just the resin with no stems. It's right on the surface of the leaf. And they're very small. And I don't know if the terpene profile stays constant and just the amounts change with maturation and stuff. I don't know. I guess I ask because Thank you for watching.

3:26:49SpeakerAll the flowers cream on the cake versus all the other ones that just smell like vegetative matter and you hope for the best. And when something has a particular smell on a stem, is that on a flowering plant or a vegetative plant? I literally smelt it from within one week of it cracking. I was like, why does this smell like weed? And that seedling grew on and grew on versus all the other ten.

3:27:13SpeakerAnd I let them veg and everything grew, all the other ones grew really, really well and strong. And I'm like, wow, that's kind of what people want. But I'm attracted to this small one that smells finished and there's no flowers. If I was selecting and I don't have the room, I killed the other nine immediately and used that to kind of filter my way through. Basically, when you only have eight slots, you really, really want to hit it out of the park.

3:27:39SpeakerIs that, as my technique, if I smell a very small amount of plant material, those basically stemless trichomes that hold that much terpene, is there any chance it's going to lose that ability? Because I've had that same veg for a year. I don't know if there's a direct relation between what you're smelling. And what the finished plant would be like, and what it would smell like, and is it that you would want that.

3:28:08SpeakerI don't know if there's a direct relationship. Obviously there's some sort of relationship, but whether or not there's a direct relationship, in other words, what you need to do is, the only way you can answer it is to take a hundred, select them the way you do from little tiny seedlings, and then grow all 100 of them to mature plants, And C, are your evaluations as seedlings equivalent to your evaluations as mature plants?

3:28:38SpeakerFirst of all, I normally go after the big, healthy, vital plants. I mean, if you're going after some unique little terpene, you could probably find it on a big, healthy, vital plant too, to be honest. Because I followed your type of logic, it was the nine sisters all had huge stem diameters. And I was like, wow, the strain was supposed to be purple tie sour diesel, which is really skunk time sour diesel.

3:29:09SpeakerSo when one looked more thin stem, like more narrow leaf cultivar, and I'm like, wow, the stem smells like sour diesel now. Everything else smells like, looks like awesome vegetative growth that has awesome potential, but this stem smells like sour diesel now. What do I do? Have you grown that plant to maturity? I'm in a situation where I keep shifting, so I've literally kept that genetic alive while I'm building my growth.

3:29:39SpeakerSo that's kind of it. I keep popping seeds and killing everything that basically doesn't smell like a finished bag as a vegetative plant. And that's kind of why I'm like, I can only gain, technically. You're going to be able to tell us whether this system works better than me, because I don't do that way. I use really huge numbers of plants, although I do start judging them early like that.

3:30:06SpeakerI never kill them according to that, because I have the room to grow thousands. So when you make something that becomes the variety you're going to breed from, is it ever from something that smells like nothing in veg but completely goes over the top in flour? Like is that attribute just as valid? Absolutely. Yes. So I'll never, I'll never basically, so there's never a case where you're like, no, when I grow my skunk, I know it's the skunk from a piece of ripped leaf.

3:30:40SpeakerIt's never like that. It can totally be a 128. Well, I mean, that's not true. People used to put four or five different buds and bags when I would go visit them, you know, decades ago. And they'd say, which one was which one? Can you tell which is your skunk? And I was never wrong, but so, I mean, it's a lot easier to judge finished product than it is to judge unfinished product.

3:31:17BubblemanHere's a question for you, Sam, from C Ray. Ask Sam how Reinhold von Sengbusch developed ultra-low THC cannabis varieties.

3:31:26SpeakerDo you know anything about that? Well, if they're the ones I'm thinking of, then it was just a mutation where it stops at CBG. So the plant produces CBG, but it doesn't have the THC synthase. Interesting. It's got a mutation, so it doesn't produce THC. Well, we don't want that one. Some of them had the mutation before CBG, so they produced no cannabis.

3:32:08SpeakerAll right.

3:32:10BubblemanWell, I guess on that note, I'm going to enjoy some cannabinoids. Feed my endocannabinoid system. Schmeck, how many plants did Reinhold grow to find those mutants?

3:32:29SpeakerCan I ask you something, Sam? Do you think, you know, we were talking about this earlier, do you think that study that showed that the one where they hurt the people where they were trying to modify or play with the endocannabinoid system and the medicine they used killed a guy? I mean, do you think that studies like that will show that we have a need for the endocannabinoid system in the way we do our vitamins and minerals and there could come a time when non-psychoactive cannabinoids are being I'm not sure how much I think that cannabinoids are the way to cure endocannabinoid deficiencies, but you're definitely right about these people that were using synthetic FAA inhibitors or something like that.

3:33:24SpeakerBut it can cause problems in the endocannabinoid system. Also, too, the people that were trying to produce, wasn't it, it blocked either the CB1 or the CB2 receptor, and they were trying to use it as a diet drug in France a couple years ago. They did some clinical trials, and it ended up causing all kinds of serious problems. One of the bigger problems is when they've given...

3:33:53SpeakerThe things that block anandamide and endocannabinoids from binding is when rats have litters, they don't suckle. If they can't receive the endocannabinoids, they cannot suckle. So it's pretty deadly. To block them, which is really what we're showing. You know, when the way they try to portray the headline is a cannabis drug caused it, it was just so misleading. And, you know, and they backpedaled it, but, you know, I think they backpedaled it, you know, a week after the headline, it already kind of grabbed a bunch of people and made them wonder what the heck that meant.

3:34:36SpeakerYeah, that was some bullshit for sure. Yeah, I vote bullshit too.

3:34:41BubblemanWell, it's good, though. You know, their bullshit could be further nails in the coffin of this agenda that's keeping people from, A, even being able to study.

3:34:49SpeakerIt was not cannabis. It was a synthetic. That's number one. It's the equivalent of saying that kids dying when they're taking spice products are dying from marijuana. It's not true. They're dying because marijuana is prohibited, so they're taking synthetic analogs of cannabinoids, which cause serious problems because they were never tested for human beings. They weren't meant to be vaporized and heated. A lot of them are not thermally stable.

3:35:26SpeakerAnd unlike the components in cannabis, which are thermally stable and will vaporize, a lot of the synthetics, which are nitrogen-containing, will decompose into noxious products. And those are the noxious products that are killing these kids. The majority were invented by a good friend of mine, John Huffman. Oh, yeah. I know John. John is legendary in chemistry circles. If you wanted... Without people were taking these, he just went ballistic.

3:36:00SpeakerHe says, Jesus, these things could be terrible for people. You know, I mean, he has no idea. These were meant strictly as something to be used in a lab so that people could understand systems better. Not to be given to human beings without testing.

3:36:18BubblemanHmm. Well, on a side note, I just hit the golden goat terpenes, and I cannot believe how good that profile is. It's up there with one of my favorites, I have to say. That is unbelievable how much better that makes the rip of hash. All over my lips, just this golden goat lemony goodness flavor. Damn. It's good. Factory spectroscopy. Man, it's so good. It's so strong on my lips that I can smell it coming off my lips under my nose, and it's just like a real light, nice.

3:36:58SpeakerIt's like Vicks Vapor Rub.

3:37:00BubblemanYeah, this doesn't smell like Vicks Vapor Rub.

3:37:03SpeakerI don't know, but it's the same. What's happening to those cells, Mark, is as the terpenes penetrate through there, I mean, again, you're opening up those cells for business here. Things are happening.

3:37:16BubblemanThey're super, it's light though, like it's not when I've smelled the fresher terpenes and it's kind of burned. It's really like a smooth smell instead of a raspy kind of grab you by the nut smell, if that makes any sense.

3:37:28SpeakerThat might just be a function of being at the right temperature and the right dose.

3:37:33BubblemanOh, it feels all right, I'll tell you that much. From a bioassay standpoint, it seems able. What's the temperature of your e-mail? Well, my e-mail's at a solid 575 right now, Mark.

3:37:50BubblemanI'm doing low temp dabs, but I'm also using, and it's dirty right now, but I'm using the doghouse with the quartz. It seals it in. It's a little bit different than when it hits a nail and goes up. I have to say there's definitely something. It's a pain in the butt. You really have to torch it and clean it, but it's an amazing system. The idea of taking a dab and not letting it blow off the top and having it completely encased in quartz or whatever other You know, surface that you prefer to hit off of.

3:38:23BubblemanWhere do you get the terpenes from? You get the terpenes from Blue River Extracts. It's not .com though, is it? It is .com, alright. Mixing it up with United Cannabis with that .us. I can't remember everything.

3:38:39Etienne FontanI can't even remember my own websites for God's sakes.

3:38:43BubblemanI have a few of them.

3:38:47SpeakerI think that there's one that's unique that didn't get a lot of hype, but you have a little care package that should be coming to you. Yeah, that one's super strong. That one everyone... That one and the Golden Goat.

3:39:04BubblemanYeah, Jack, Lemon, Golden Goat, and like I said, the Sour D, after being cured out for like a month... And turned to like yellowy syrup. It is now just incredible. As a clear liquid, it was, it just, there was a terpene there that was masking the profile. It wasn't quite like what I was expecting it to be like. And when I just kind of left it and was like, ah, I don't really want to hit this one.

3:39:31BubblemanAnd then it was the last one. And then it was like I left the lid open and I kind of misplaced it and I came back and it was syrupy.

3:39:39SpeakerA lot of people ask me about like, like right now there's a Cookies and there's a GSC. Or there's, each run is cultivar specific and depending on the genetics or the way it was grown. But that's why there's been like four different Gorilla Glue batches. One was Gorilla Glue 11, one was the four. Different types of growers, even everyone that grows, maybe if they grow sun grown, some people have their own tea mixes, their own living soils or whatever.

3:40:09SpeakerEveryone has their own little unique Things that they do differently and those are expressed so they're not consistently always going to be exactly the same. So the sour D is something if you're in California or the East Coast you get all kinds of different sour D. So I found the one that I'm really, really digging on that you're going to like is the Covello sour D from MTG.

3:40:32SpeakerIt's an area where it's grown. But that's really the fuel-y, soil-y, that's like a really fuel-y, soil-y, robust, like super sour diesel, like sour gas. But I think you're going to see like different waves. So you got like the first sour D that was okay. I felt it was just like, it's what I consider a California sour D that's like very...

3:40:55BubblemanListen, when it cured out, it was amazing, dude. Like AAA, like just, it was one of my favorites. The minute it finally cured out and it was my last thing and I started hitting it, the flavor... It was as intense as the Jack Frost and the Golden Goat. Like, it was just shocking. You'd put the tiniest little bit, like, just dip the tiniest little bit of the hash into this yellow goop, and then be like, oh, I wonder how this is going to be.

3:41:17BubblemanI'll never forget the first time I hit it was just like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, I couldn't believe it, man. It blew me away. And it reminds me of, C-Ray just said a great thing in chat, which will lead us down another road here, and this is going to involve you, Sam, for sure. He's mentioning how one has to grow lavender above 2,000 feet of altitude to reduce camphor levels.

3:41:41BubblemanDo you think that we will learn to grow cannabis at different altitude levels to bring out and to reduce certain terpenes from being produced?

3:41:52SpeakerOf course that can contribute to the ultimate product that a person is trying to create. You'll find that certain areas either has to be north or south or altitude or like grapes, particular soils, you know, all of these make such a big difference. But cannabis is just scratching the surface on that. I mean, I think California has... What do they call it where it's, I don't know the name, I think it's ABAs, which are a registered area which a particular variety of grape is grown, and then it's always included on the label of wine, you know, that it's that variety from that area.

3:42:44SpeakerI forget, they have them in France too, I forget what they're called. And this will happen with cannabis, but we're a long way from it because half of the tradition recently has been indoor under light growing. That has nothing to do with particular areas or particular soils or particular environments. It's strictly man-made. And elevation in lots of plants has to do with powdery mildew. You know, if you're growing below 500 feet close to a sea level, I think you would experience completely different characteristics and immunity and all kinds of, like, properties that that environment would create versus, say, 1,500 or 2,000 elevation.

3:43:31SpeakerYou know, so I'm sure that has drastic effects. And I always said that, too. It's like, you know, at some point, you look at the U.S., they grow oranges in Florida and California. They don't grow them in Kansas. You know, you grow wheat in Kansas. And they don't grow them up in the mountains in Colorado either.

3:43:52BubblemanIt's true. I mean, even France is known for the lavender that they grow in a certain region.

3:43:56SpeakerYeah, because the soil and the conditions and the environment is perfect for it. And the microbial content. The microbial content are all unique in those areas and those geographies of the world. And those lowest rungs on the food chain ladder is what starts the chemistry that enables the soil to be able to produce it. What you can also look at is the perfume industry, where when they're using natural raw materials from flowers, They are producing roses in particular areas.

3:44:32SpeakerThey're producing whatever flower it is that they're extracting the materials from.

3:44:38BubblemanAnd that's for terpene manipulation, basically. It has to be. Interesting. And they've been doing that a long time. For thousands of years. So maybe we need some people that are seriously into the cannabis industry to make your way into the perfume industry. And, you know, find out as much knowledge as you can because those guys definitely have serious, serious knowledge when it comes to extracting and isolating and fractioning all these different terpenes.

3:45:11BubblemanAnd knowing that knowledge, where to grow them, like, no, no, no, we need to grow these roses in this particular valley. It's like, why? It's like...

3:45:18SpeakerI was contacted by Jovedon Rouge, which is one of the companies that smells... That sells smells and taste essences. I think they're the first or the second largest company in the world. Multi, multi-billion dollar company. And what they were interested in, a customer had come to them, this was 20 years ago, they wanted to make a cannabis perfume. And they contacted me because I was legally licensed to grow these materials at the time.

3:45:51SpeakerI had bags of skunk weed and bags of skunk ash. So they came and they brought their little, it was like a little device where it collected the air from the plastic bag, blew it through a little catch device that had activated charcoal plus a fixative so that the set molecules got trapped as they were blown through it. And then they analyzed the profile. And their idea was they were going to make it.

3:46:25SpeakerAnd I was hoping that they were going to buy kilos and kilos of skunk and make a perfume. But no, what they wanted to do was understand what it was and then make it with other natural components. But that was the first full profile that I had. And when I did it, a terpene profile, I found five new terpenes that were not listed in the literature. But they were hip to it because they had a database with, I think it was 150,000, or no, what was it?

3:47:01SpeakerNo, 15, or almost 20,000 terpenes on their database. So they could run it through their GC, and they knew what it was.

3:47:12BubblemanHow cool would it be to have a terpene named after you? Like, what an honor that would be, a nice cannabis terpene.

3:47:18SpeakerYeah, well, what would we call it? Skunkoleum?

3:47:22BubblemanWell, I don't know about that. It doesn't sound so nice.

3:47:27SpeakerAshishene. They call that, right? That's a bit better. Skunkneen. Hey, Sam, what were those five new terpenes? Can you enlighten us? Oh, I don't remember. I'd have to find the paper and do it. I'll look it up and I'll post it on Hester. Were they monoterps or were they sesquise? I obviously don't remember. I'd have to look. But they were unique to cannabis? They were... No, no, they were not unique to cannabis.

3:48:01SpeakerThere's only one or two terpenes found in cannabis that I think are unique to cannabis. I think all the rest of them are found in the rest of the world, aren't they? Right, that's right, absolutely. Which ones are the ones that are unique to cannabis, do you know? I thought there was one called Cannabean Bean or something. I'd have to look. I can't remember. I'm totally wrecked.

3:48:26SpeakerIt's really late for me because I usually go to bed really, really early. I'm a really boring guy.

3:48:33BubblemanYeah, right. It's because you wake up so early. You wake up what most would call late instead of early.

3:48:40SpeakerI wake up usually here around 2 or 3 in the morning. That's true. Exactly. Well, that's the best time to smoke a nice big bong.

3:48:49BubblemanYeah, absolutely. Well, I'll be puffing one with you later tonight when you wake up at 2, 3 in the morning.

3:48:59BubblemanI'll hit you up on the Skype.

3:49:05SpeakerThank you so much for joining us, Sam. It's always special to have you on.

3:49:12BubblemanOh yeah, it was amazing. It was such a nice surprise. Also, I want to thank Aaron for coming on. That was just nice to have inspirational stories where people see a way out, take a different path, and just get off those pharmaceuticals and get onto that cannabis and start leading yourself down a different path. I know a lot of people are watching and thinking,

3:49:41SpeakerYou've seen those posts recently about how, you know, they're finding pharmaceutical solutions for cannabis abuse.

3:49:53Etienne FontanOh my God, dude.

3:49:55SpeakerSo what they want you to do is to take some sort of, you know, crapo-pharmaceutical pill to cure your cannabis addiction. And cannabis addiction is not like, you know, a hard drug addiction. Most cannabis addiction, and probably about 10% of cannabis smokers do become psychologically addicted. They would prefer their life with it. So it's not that they have to have it, but if it's available, they're probably going to get it.

3:50:30BubblemanIf it's available, they're probably going to get it. I always just think of it like water, you know? Like when I'm thirsty, I want nice water. Does it make me an addict? I don't think so.

3:50:41SpeakerNo, no, no, what happens is they just identify with your traits. So, like, I was contacted by them, and I said, they asked me, they said, you know, we want to help you with your addiction to cannabis. And I said, me? I said, you think I have an addiction to cannabis? And I said, well, we look at your social media, we follow you. Who said this? The people that are trying to get people off of the addiction.

3:51:07SpeakerAh, yes, okay, they got you. They called, they contacted me. Tony, did you see the article in the new cannabis journal? It's called Cannabis and Cannabinoid Research. No, I haven't seen that one yet. There's a great article in there about this exact same subject. And in it, there's three researchers discussing this, and they're all agreeing that marijuana is addictive, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they're asked, and if you had to stop this kind of research, what would you do?

3:51:41SpeakerAnd one of them immediately responded, I would commit Harry Carey.

3:51:48SpeakerWell, they can understand how addictive marijuana is to all of us. They don't seem to understand how addictive research into that supposed addiction is to them. Okay. What's this article? What is it called? Cannabis what? Well, if you look it up, there's a new journal. It just came out, and it's free online. It's called Cannabis and Cannabinoid Researcher. What's the pill? What's the pill that's going to cure us?

3:52:19SpeakerI forget. They had all their different ideas on what sort of crap they should be taking. Okay, so there's an active ingredient? Well, if you take heroin every day, you know, it would probably help. There's an orally available FDA-approved active ingredient? No, no, no, no, no. That's what their holy grail is, you know. That's what they've been working for for the last 20 years. Yeah, because I can imagine they could go ahead and prescribe...

3:52:49SpeakerWhen I first joined the ICRS, that's the International Cannabinoid Research Society, the premier world group, they were all basically a bunch of piss testers. That's what they were really about, and people like this, you know, people trying to find, because that's who funded all the research of cannabis, was the anti-people. But luckily, the year that I started going to the ICRS, 25, 26, whatever years ago it was, Bill Devane, William Devane, came and presented his paper about cannabis.

3:53:35SpeakerI think it was at that time, I'm not sure if it was actually anandamide or if it was just the anandamide receptor that they had thrown. But it changed everything within a few years. Now all the big pharmaceutical companies are chasing cannabinoids and the endocannabinoid system. Oh, without exception. Without exception. They all have patents and they all know the importance of the receptors and they're all trying to make Dr. An orally active medication, and that's the issue, is that our society grows up thinking that there's a pill for that.

3:54:12SpeakerOh, well, what's wrong with that kid here? He's acting up. Here, there's a pill for that. Give him Ritalin, right? Get him started on methamphetamine. This notion that there's a pill, there's an orally active pill, I mean, when the pill goes into the gut, it's digested in the gut. Dr. Pills don't work. You just give them a shot. Yeah, but someone's posting on the chat room that the pill, the anti-cannabis pill is N-acetylcysteine.

3:54:41SpeakerGive me a break. This is a fucking derivative of a naturally occurring amino acid. It's not going to have any activity whatsoever. It's going to be digested in the gut, and it's basically a fucking placebo. Their drug doesn't work. That's a lot of drugs. Read the paper, and they're talking about several different drugs, but yeah, they're all. I think the one in France was called Rimbotan. Wasn't that?

3:55:09SpeakerYeah, so that's a synthetic analog, right? That's a synthetic analog. And it caused problems also. And it's not something that's meant to be vaporized. Like if you spray that on ditch weed, you can't make that into a synthetic weed that you would get high from. It would decompose thermally. It's not going to decarboxylate and do what the phytocannabinoids do. Just because it binds to the receptor, that doesn't mean it has the same physical properties as phytocannabinoids, and I think that that's the issue.

3:55:42SpeakerThe heart of the, Dr. When Bill Hane discovered anandamide, I immediately obtained some anandamide. And I was thinking, well, now what can I do with this? You know, I can't vaporize it. I can't smoke it. You can't even eat it because if you eat it, it destroys it. So in the end, what we did was we found out that it solved glaucoma better than THC. And so we got a patent, the first patent, use patent for anandamide in the world for...

3:56:19SpeakerI mean, that's what GW ought to be doing. I mean, to me, it's like anandamide and anandamide analogs that are, I mean, that's just one. I gave them the patent, and after three years, they gave it back to me. Who? GW did? Yes. I gave it to them for free.

3:56:40SpeakerOh, Lord. Well, I mean, doing clinical trials on CBD medicine doesn't sound like something that's really going to end up providing any useful information because at the end of the day, yeah, I guess it will provide useful information, but are you going to go get your epilepsy or your multiple sclerosis medicine from a GW-branded pharmaceutical at a drugstore? No, you're going to go to your Local provider or your gardener and basically... You're really wrong about this.

3:57:14SpeakerOkay, go ahead, please. Okay, because you've got to understand that in your circle, what you're saying is obviously true. In my circle, what you're saying is obviously true. But in the straight world out there that would not go to a dispensary, there are lots of people like this. They want the benefit, but they want to buy it in a pharmacy. And it's not for you or me to judge.

3:57:41SpeakerIf they want to buy it in a pharmacy, it makes them more comfortable. They prefer following hook, line, and sinker to pharmaceutical companies. They deserve that right.

3:57:57BubblemanAs long as we can have the right to grow and produce our own and still be able to get it at dispensaries. Well, of course, that's unsaid. So that's what it's all about. You know, it's hard sometimes because people are like, what do you mean? What did he just say? It's like, yeah, of course. If it's about cannabis and getting access, then everyone deserves the right to get it where they want to get it and be comfortable with where they're getting it from.

3:58:24SpeakerYeah, I mean, get CBD medication from a drugstore paid for by your drug insurance program Thank you so much for joining us today. We'll be right back.

3:59:04SpeakerIn the way of using an herbal supplement, so it should not only be allowed, it should be encouraged before going to a drug store and getting a drug from a drug company that was approved by that food and drug administration, paid for by drug insurance. Cannabis is not a drug. It's an herbal supplement and needs to be regulated out of the drug store. There is no play for the pharmaceutical companies in cannabis, period.

3:59:33SpeakerMark, I understand what Sam is saying. You have to understand the pharmacist at the drugstore is the last remnants of the apothecary and somebody you physically interacted with to understand your own health and how your medicine is administered. So a lot of people own, it's not even their doctor they trust, it's the pharmacist they trust to understand what the doctor prescribed is going to fuck them up.

3:59:57SpeakerSo it's actually the last person you physically trust. When your doctor says, take this and fuck off, you ask, is this going to affect the other drugs I'm taking to your pharmacist? So people want that structure, and we don't have the apothecary, which was the pharmacist of natural medicines, like the homeopath. You can't mix this. You can't just take magnesium at the same time as your iron medication.

4:00:21SpeakerIt's a lack in our society of an intermediary between the plant world and the You could say the layman. And so Sam's world is basically there are more people who need that pharmacist as an intermediary that will basically vote that into power than there are us who can literally solve it ourselves because unfortunately a bud tender is not an apothecary. They're trying to sell you weed. They read a bunch of lists of what the strain name will do, but there's no TURP profile to say that's the strain.

4:00:53SpeakerYou know, the limonene in it will help you with your anxiety. We still have an uneducated, we don't have that educated drug dealer that's as good as even a pharmacist, and we need that. Maybe that would solve the issue. True. One thing is for sure that the I'm in favor of the patient being able to do what they want. If they want to grow it at home, if they want to buy it in a dispensary, if they want to go to the pharmacist and be prescribed by a doctor.

4:01:24SpeakerHere in the Netherlands, a doctor can give you a prescription and you can buy herbal CBD, herbal from Meddercom. And yeah, I mean, it's not really what I'm interested in because I'm a resin kind of guy and they don't sell resin. But it's available and I just want every choice to be available. It's not up to me to decide for somebody else what is the best choice for them.

4:01:53SpeakerLet them decide. We can help inform them what might be better choices. Mm-hmm.

4:02:00BubblemanYeah, it's true. You know, the argument is often used that, oh, it's, it's, but they're trying to make our choice not be available. It's like, no, that's generally the government. Don't be fooled by the divide and conquer mentality. Don't try to change something because you might not want to acquire it that way. There may be other people. You know, just like we would ask the people that don't want to grow for themselves, please don't lobby Thank you so much for joining us.

4:02:37BubblemanI don't know who it was, some guy from an LP just making the worst comments he could possibly make in the, you know, we're going to be lobbying the government to close the dispensaries, just like basically what he should not be spending any of his time on, he should be more in support of dispensaries and helping for more distribution outlets. Instead he hammered on this, on compassion clubs and said a bunch of nasty things and now people are super, Aggressively against LPs again, which is like, man, it's not like every single LP in Canada said that, quote, it was a guy.

4:03:11BubblemanBut now he represents all of those LPs, so it's boiling.

4:03:17SpeakerMark, basically there's a similar situation, I mean it's different but it's similar, in California where cities and counties now can ban commercial cultivation for dispensaries. You understand? So an entire city can ban it. Now, they can't stop you as an individual growing it for your own use. But they can say that you have to grow it indoors. You can't grow it outdoors in public view. You can't be a smell hazard.

4:03:48SpeakerSo what they're doing is they're trying to cut back on people's rights. And they can stop the commercial dispensary growing, but they can't stop individuals yet. And hopefully they'll never be able to, and hopefully as many of these cities, what really needs to be done is the voters need to find out who is behind this in these cities and kick them out on their asses in the next elections.

4:04:17Etienne FontanYeah, exactly.

4:04:18SpeakerInstead of turning on, tuning in, and dropping out, we need to turn on, tune in, and take over.

4:04:25BubblemanYeah, I like that. Taking over. Hands in the air, Todd McCormick. Hands in the air.

4:04:30SpeakerAnd vote out. Thanks, Sam.

4:04:34BubblemanYou know, if he had a mic, he would have dropped it right there.

4:04:39SpeakerI'm out of here. You do know it's the logo over my magazine, Masthead, right, Mark? I always joke that Tim Larry had a two-thirds right. Turn on, tune in, but not drop out. We need to take over. Yep. That's great. Good to see he's reading the copy. I love it.

4:05:03SpeakerThank you. What we do. I mean, this is up to us. We're going to deal with the screwed system. I mean, this is the whole reason we have to educate one another. We really have to circulate the information about cannabis around so people can't keep us kind of underground and buried anymore with ignorance. I mean, That's really been the biggest enforcer of this prohibition is just so many people didn't know the truth.

4:05:30BubblemanYeah. And the fear was vast and real to many people, you know, that It was like the Tower of Babel version. It was just like, well, put the fear of God so hard for these people.

4:05:43SpeakerI want to say something because somebody made a comment that I deleted on my Instagram about how we don't have enough diversity, we don't have enough women on the panel, and we don't have enough, you know, Horatio, dare I say this, you know, darker guys than me. And the real reason is because, you know what, Black people in my country can't even drive their fucking car without getting harassed.

4:06:02SpeakerYou know, DWB is not funny. And the reality is that mothers and families usually are pretty close. So when mothers and minorities stick out their necks to try to stand up for themselves, they usually get hurt the worst. And a lot of times it's been people like me that are single, no kids due to cancer or whatever. That have taken risks. That have, you know, I lost my two dogs when I went to prison.

4:06:26SpeakerThey both died of cancer. I don't think I would have been as radical of an activist had I had a fucking house full of children. Because there's no way I would have wanted to leave them, you know, and be so bold, you know. And I think when you really look at the situation, you've got to look at the reality of the situation, you know. And that's really why this panel isn't as diverse as it should be.

4:06:47SpeakerAnd I wish we did have more voices from other people and other cultures and women. And we will at some point when they are not fearing getting their fucking children taken away or getting locked up for some bullshit in order to shut them up. And that's really what I feel to the person that was listening today and was trying to give shit because there's not enough diversity on the panel.

4:07:07SpeakerWe would love to have diversity on the panel. Really, we would. It's no different than testimonials. The amount of parents I deal with that are like, I'm so amazed, I'm so thankful, but I'm not exactly ready to do anything other than get my child back and move on with my life. And I'm like, well, I know you want to inspire the 10 other parents that are still on the drug.

4:07:29SpeakerBut you do have to get back to your life. It's been hard enough and you finally found cannabis and it's working. Just move on. We'll find one day that inspirational story will come out in the public. But I'm not asking you to come on a TV show to promote a product. Dude, I agree. I'm a result of a woman that was active. My mother took a bold step, gave me weed, and feared everything because of it.

4:07:53SpeakerMy doctors were real heroes because they allowed me to continue using cannabis with my mother and kept their mouth shut because they saw it was helping me out. They were in a really difficult situation because had they been found out to be in complacency with my mother giving me some Schedule I drug, You know, they would have lost their doctor's licenses. My mother would have lost her kid.

4:08:16SpeakerI mean, there are some serious repercussions to doing what we've done and taking these risks and speaking out. There's a reason that Sam is You know, contacting us from not America and not Santa Cruz and it's because for the last 40 years they've been locking people like him up that we will now revere as a scientist ahead of his time. You know, 30 years ago he would have been right there with me in federal lockup if they could have gotten their hands on him.

4:08:41SpeakerTrue enough.

4:08:43BubblemanScary shit, man. Well, one thing I wanted to mention again about the LPs and the dispensaries, for anyone who's involved with an LP or if you own an LP and you're watching right now, because there are a few rotten apples in the group right now, really like being the voice behind this entire division that's being created, LPs, in my opinion, should really get behind the dispensaries. You know, if you're going to lobby the government, lobby the government to allow the dispensaries to be allowed in the games.

4:09:12BubblemanYou know what I mean? Stand behind these outlets that have been standing up while it was illegal for 20 plus years, putting this medicine out to the people. Don't try to get rid of them. To the ones that have said that, I've got to say, shame on you. Man, that is a waste of resources. It's fine if you want to operate as this entity, but don't try to stop other people in different platforms.

4:09:35BubblemanIn my opinion, the big guys would be much better off Standing behind the little guys and saying, we want them involved. That's all I wanted to say about that. Seems pretty legitimate. I think we did it, boys. That was four hours and ten minutes. I'm sure everyone wants to go enjoy their Sundays. Sam probably wants to go to bed.

4:09:59SpeakerNow I'm all wired. I think I'll just sit here and smoke barns and watch some TV.

4:10:07BubblemanWell, I definitely want to thank Aaron for coming in, Heavy Icer X on Instagram and on Facebook, Aaron Waight. And yeah, dude, thank you for sharing your story with us. As always, I'm sure we'll get you in here again one day for sure. Wanted to, of course, thank Skunk Man Sam for popping in and just...

4:10:29SpeakerI wanted to suggest that Todd, if anybody has... Any phone numbers of girls that would like to be on the show, send it to Todd and Todd will make sure he contacts them.

4:10:45BubblemanExcellent. Excellent. Hey, thanks Horatio. Thanks Mark Scaldone. Yes, send those numbers to Todd. Headshots to info at hempx. I'm just joking. 800 headshots just landed in Todd's mouth. Thanks, Tony. He's no longer here, but he was with us earlier, and of course, Mel Frank for a brief second. We didn't get to see him or hear him, but he was here. Etienne, as always, was like damn near first in the group, and Mr. D420K.

4:11:22BubblemanThank you guys all for coming in and making Hash Church what it is. Episode 71 coming at you next week. We'll see you guys. Peace.