Hash Church and the Future of Cannabis

0:01BubblemanWell, hello everybody and welcome to what is episode 69 of Hash Church. I kind of can't believe that we've gotten this far. We're getting pretty close to episode 73 of which I am trying to do a full melt bubble, the full water hash episode. We'll see how that comes along. It's hard getting everyone to come in at once, let me tell you. So, I have muted the YouTube.

0:27BubblemanI will send out the Chimera invitation. I will send out the Rob Clark, Skunk Man Sam, Aaron from DNA, and Cuban Growers invitation. Let me see here. It's never that easy. Try to add hashtags on there. Boom, now they're invited. And then, of course, down to Facebook to invite the majority of everyone. So there we go. Probably get some people in there. Hey, what do you guys think of the new 25 micron shirt?

0:59BubblemanThis is the brand new 25 micron shirt. We've only ever had 120, 90, 73, and 45. All my rosin makers were begging me for the 25 micron squeeze rosin. So I thought, well, hey, why not release a 25 micron shirt? So there it is right there. And good morning to Etienne and to Mark Scaldone. I hope you guys are doing... Well, I hope you guys are doing wonderful.

1:29Etienne FontanDoing wonderful here. It's a Sunday, rainy day in the Bay Area here, and another exciting week in cannabis. Good morning, Mark. Mr. Scaldone, sir.

1:42BubblemanWe got the same thing going on here. Rainy, rainy day. We just... I do believe there was a little event in the city last night. I wasn't able to make it myself, but I'm pretty sure D420K and some other friends made it. Maybe they'll pop in later and tell us a little bit about it. It was a little glass show.

1:59Etienne FontanWas it a glass show for just pipes and such?

2:07BubblemanYeah, I'm pretty sure I didn't, I mean, you never know that nowadays glassblowers might be making heady Q-tip holders and little pickups for the rosin on the parchment and a variety of things. But yeah, mostly it was a glass show that people could go. I saw actually Horatio picked up a new piece of glass there yesterday. He posted it on his social media, so I'm sure we'll see him today come in and blaze up a bowl.

2:31BubblemanHoly shit, we got 433 people in here and it's 9.02. Yeah.

2:36BubblemanHow are you guys? Good morning, Mark. How are you doing today, my friend? All right. All right. Great. Excellent.

2:45Etienne FontanPeople, we better get to dabbing. Jesus Christ. There's serious people out there.

2:50BubblemanI think it's a good idea. I think it's a definite good idea. Oh, I wanted to give a shout out before I forget because sometimes Hash Church gets rolling and then it's no longer convenient for me to do these shout outs. But my shout out goes to Mendo Dope. Thank you guys for the fucking serious kickdown on the CDs. I got the brand new double, which is basically live in the garden.

3:14BubblemanThey filmed it in their garden, and they've got the making of it, the DVD. They've got the instrumental, which is kicking in my computer right now, and then the actual CD. They were generous enough to tell me I could use these on my YouTube videos, and they send me out basically all their albums. They've got their Endangered Artists. They sent me Planters of the Trees. Now, if you don't know who Mendo Dope is, you can be rest assured that these guys are serious ganja people.

3:45BubblemanSubcool turned me on to their greatest hits, which I thought was really cool, because it came with a Happy Daddy dabber. And I thought that was such a classy little kickdown to have the dabber in with the CD. So mad respect to the Mendo Dope crew. Got to shout out Judah and the ganja farmer Marlon Asher because it was also really through Judah and Marlon Asher that I kind of really got turned on to the music of Mendo Dope as they did some collaborations on his last CD.

4:22SpeakerSo yeah, I wanted to give that shout out and that seems done. Mark, what genre of music is it, would you say?

4:29BubblemanYou know, they're really, really conscious hip hop. Really, really great beats, hip hop music. Yeah, I've always had a spot in my heart for good hip hop and they definitely fit the bill.

4:44SpeakerHow many pieces is it?

4:47BubblemanYou know what, I'm not sure how many people, because they do all sorts of collaborations, so they might bring in a horn player, or they might have a special guy to play guitar or something, but they definitely have talent, and I really enjoyed them on Marlon Asher's last album, which I wish I could remember the name of. Maybe Davitude? Yeah, anyway, let's blow some smoke towards the... Say again?

5:16Etienne FontanI'm going to blow towards the Vatican today.

5:19BubblemanI'm going to blow towards the Vatican some Purple Candy and some Master Scout, full spectrum, so, you know, the 120 through to the 45, all mixed in. And it's got some oomph, I won't tell you. It's that kind of hash that when you're picking it out of the jar, it kind of, you stick the dabber in and then it's hard, but then it slowly starts moving like Like, in slow motion, and then usually about halfway through that point, it breaks and flicks out and lands like a kilometer away from where I am, so it's that good stuff.

6:02SpeakerI hope you got a tile floor and not carpet.

6:05Etienne FontanI'm smoking on some Cali Chihuahua from Run Run Bubblegum, so I'm starting off with some rosin this morning because it's good.

6:15BubblemanBeautiful. Well, I'm always shouting out the West Coast Concentrate crew. They seem to be one of the only people producing consistently some really great melt, and this is, you know, I don't know what it is exactly, and I have my opinions, and I wish, hopefully Todd will show up, because he'll for sure disagree with my opinions, but I just feel that the oil is really It makes the prohibition dollar more accessible, it's more profitable and people can whip it off and sell it real fast and it seems to be why here in Vancouver the majority of the material gets blasted and you don't see a lot of this high quality hash available to the patients.

7:01BubblemanYou have tons of different solvent extracts but it's very, very, very lopsided in our dispensary world. How many places you can actually go and purchase beautiful hash?

7:14Etienne FontanIt's the same here. The big problem is now everybody's pressing rosin because a lot of the water hash had either failed or they're not drying it correctly or they don't even want to try to dry it correctly.

7:24BubblemanRight, so that's just like, hey, this water hash failed. We'll just press the microbials right out of it because we know that you can just seize microbials out of hash using heat and pressure. Oh, wait a minute. Mark, is that absolute and utter and complete? I don't know about that. Can you do that? That sounds interesting. You know. There's no way you can do that. I mean, I would be blown away if that was somehow working.

7:50BubblemanI have a feeling that these microbials have figured out a way to survive right through to the end. But it would be wonderful if it was the case that you could do that.

8:00Etienne FontanBut I feel you. We need more high-end bubble. We were talking about that last night. Rob Clark, Todd, Chimera, and I were all hanging out. We were talking, because Chimera enjoys bubble hash as well, and we were talking how finding high-end bubble hash, at least here in the States, is getting harder and harder to find. If so, it's in very small batches, so there's really not much for people to even access, even if there is stuff accessible.

8:25Etienne FontanSo, hey, you water people, we know you can do it right. You've been doing it for generations, so, you know, it can be done. So, get back to it. Come on, we miss that stuff. It's really high-end.

8:37SpeakerThere's a ton of that in the market. An unmet need in the market spells opportunity for people who can produce.

8:44BubblemanHey, if you want to talk about an unmet need for the market, we're just talking about water hash. How about full melt dry sift? That's even worse. Even less people have access to that. People that shit on Cuban Thank you for watching.

9:20BubblemanYou know, the West Coast Melts, or the West Coast Concentrate, when I met these guys, you know, I thought the young guys that I met were the owners of the company. They were like, oh no, we have different owners of our company. They're actually like a BHO company that makes a ton of BHO. They make so much BHO that they're able to have a solventless arm of their business and Not really what I would say making money, they're probably operating at a loss, but they do a lot for the marketing of the company and they're doing the good work.

9:50BubblemanAnd I told the owner of the company, I wouldn't be surprised to see these guys in the upcoming years be the savior of your company. Because who knows, maybe BC goes like California and just says, hey, we don't want anyone spraying chemicals that can blow up houses and apartment buildings. I could see it. We are very much, at least here in British Columbia, we very much follow California and the West Coast and sort of the rules that they set in place.

10:19BubblemanWe did it with tobacco smoking before the rest of Canada did it. And I've just seen it happen with a multitude of things like that. So it will be interesting to see how it comes to be. Can you make the same quality of dry sift with dry ice? No. Thank you so much for joining us.

10:53BubblemanYou're getting something from the contaminant. The rosin does not come out the way it comes out. If I were to clean that contaminant out to a 99% head and then squeeze that, you would see like a night and day end product.

11:08SpeakerWhat would be the differences, just the color or the yield or what would be the... Yeah, yeah, it's color and it's quality.

11:14BubblemanIt's almost as though, I mean I don't want to sound like I'm talking up my ass, but I really am because I have no idea, but it almost seems as though chlorophyll or something else, I don't know what, is contaminating it and it just makes for a darker product. So even if the resin heads are golden and they're present in there, meaning if I were to extract them out into 99% and run them, I would get a very, you know, gold product like that.

11:41BubblemanThat's not the case when you run dry sift. You end up with this darker, even darker than this, almost with, wow, that one doesn't have the tinge, almost with that tinge of greenness to it. So I just, I am not a fan of squeezing dry sift that is... You know, 80% contaminant. I would much rather get a sift up to at least 50% heads and then squeeze from there.

12:07BubblemanAnd there definitely is a difference, at least in the rose.

12:11SpeakerYeah, remember though, like with these plant pigments, especially ones like chlorophyll and things that are perhaps degraded somewhat, is they have what's called a high extinction coefficient, which means that they are... A very small concentration of the material highly colors a lot of bulk material. So it's kind of like food coloring. They're very, very powerful in their ability to basically... Like if you look at the difference in those two colors, Mark, it's probably really very, very minute species that are actually leading to the difference in those colors, but they're just...

12:47SpeakerThank you for watching.

13:07BubblemanYou know, like do the experiment. I tell people all the time, just don't take my word for it. Just do the experiment. It's really easy. You have a bunch of sift. Okay, let's clean a little bit. Let's clean it to 100% or 99% glands or at least 90. So many people. I really want to discuss the difference between 90 and 99. It is... Huge. There's not much difference from 90 to 99 when you've been puffing on the 20.

13:35SpeakerAnd what's the difference in the color of the rosin that you make? Do you actually get clear rosin from one and not clear from the other?

13:42BubblemanNo. Once you get up into the 90 perspective range, you're going to be very on par, and most people won't be able to see the subtle nuances. They'll be more noticeable by like a skunk man, Sam, if you were smoking it. And if he had the one for two weeks smoking it and then all of a sudden something changed, he would for sure notice those differences. What they would be, I couldn't tell you.

14:04BubblemanWe could be dealing with a different variety of strains that do a different variety of things. But in the dry sift world, I've definitely noticed that just to clean up to that final percent makes a world of difference. And everyone I've shown how to do this over the years You know, it takes so much work just for them to get to 90%, like so much work that by the time most of them get there, they're pretty much like good.

14:33BubblemanThey're like, you know what, I'm good. I'm good, 90% is clean, it's melting, it's better than anything I'm loading into people's bowls. And it was kind of the case when Johnny B first learned. He learned to do 99 and then he just was happy with 90 and his hash was great and amazing. But Darren, when he got to 90, he just was like, fuck, like I just can't.

14:56BubblemanIt took him three months before he finally got to 99. And man, I'll tell you, when he got to 99, I don't think anyone notices the difference more than him now because of that experience that he had in his learning from 90 to 99. You know, the patience that he had to have, he was just, I wish he was in here too. What the fuck, these guys don't wake up and answer their texts or what?

15:21BubblemanIt's early out there, man.

15:22Etienne FontanMorning, we're sleeping, man.

15:24BubblemanI know, I know. It's 9.15 a.m. and we're just on full fucking hashish monologue here.

15:33Etienne FontanHey, man. Heads, heads, man.

15:37SpeakerIs the rosin that you get from the 99% and better, like more glassy, like less...

15:46BubblemanI'm not going to lie, I don't press a lot of 99, but when you press 99, it's basically the loveliest, nicest thing you could possibly imagine. Now, the hashes are different. If you start making sift, you realize there are different Thank you so much for joining us.

16:19BubblemanI'm really not a big fan of this sort of fresh frozen microplaned hash, which is, in my opinion, it's a little bit fast food. It's a little bit like, oh, we don't have to dry it anymore. Awesome. We can just run it fresh. The preserved terpenes will add to the effect of the melt. We'll shred the heads with... Thank you for joining us.

16:49BubblemanYou know, for me, I've always felt that a fresh frozen product is like a rushed fast food product that needs to be smoked or used immediately. And it's really where that whole debate of the buttering comes up, the extract, you know, the releasing of all these terpenes. And, you know, Todd was talking about it yesterday and how they like it with the oil, whereas with the hash it seems more like a degradable thing.

17:16BubblemanThat's occurring more from like potential water and of course different terpene profiles. I've spoken about it with Rob Clark in regards to terpenes as well as Skunk Man Sam. In regards to terpenes that are maybe not the ideal terpenes that we want present and that these terpenes are potentially the most volatile, meaning this is why throughout the history of this plant we have cured the herb before we make the hash for many, many, many decades.

17:46BubblemanAnd the reason we do that is because to avoid those terpenes that are harsh and rough on the throat and really kind of snag you, and to create a more smoother, nice product, a smooth smoking product. Now I'm like with Horatio, I can hear him already going, no we need to preserve all terpenes because we don't know what they do. I hear you Horatio, even though you're not in the room, I can answer that for you.

18:10BubblemanBut yeah, just... It's an interesting concept in the drying of the herb and preparing resin properly for hash making. And so that's what I'm having my crew do right now down in California. And I wish Tony was in here right now because he could start mentioning it. I've got the Bazaar Brothers who are my bubble ambassadors down there right now running and mixing the hash. And then I have Tony and myself who are processing it in the lab.

18:42BubblemanAnd Tony posted a really cool photo the other day about this process and how he, using dry ice and some liquid nitrogen, he can drop the temperature down to almost minus 50 and, you know, vac out the pressure, pressurize vac out the water without removing terpenes. So I know that he's got a new method. We've got a new method that we're going to be working on with the Harvest Right, scientifically Like science.

19:41BubblemanYeah!

19:42Etienne FontanKinda, right? No, it's not. It is. It's because we now have laboratory testing that we can test all these things so that we know the terpenes, so that we know we can screen for these 40 terpenes. Yeah, we're finding about 18 to 20 of them, but we didn't have that 5, 10 years ago, okay? So now we at least have starting points to start doing records as well as documenting because we still need to understand What happens between the fresh material and, you know, an actual dried... We don't even have, you know, testing like every single day to see what actual chemical changes, if any, are actually taking place.

20:21Etienne FontanWhat vac-off or naturally escaping terpenes are there? We still don't understand all of them, much less what's being gone before it's even cut from the room itself. So there's still a lot we don't understand, even in our limited understanding... You know, we know what we want to see, but I still think we're going to find, you know, many different methods to get to that point. So I think that's great, a new method that you guys and Tony are working on with Frozen and Drying.

20:52Etienne FontanI mean, this is the great thing about this time is it's so exciting because we can now start applying technology along with science to actually further our understanding everywhere from, THC content, mixture of terpenes, and what's taking place, but it also shows us how much we still don't know. And that's where, I'll kind of go back to that, Skeldon, the other day people were asking on the Facebook hash church page what should they go into if they, again, they're asking what should they go into now if they go to college because they're fascinated and they're hearing us talking about all these different things and so I think it's, again, another discussion for, you know, what should kids, if they're going, not kids, sorry, young adults going into college.

21:40Etienne FontanKids, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:44SpeakerFirst, go on a fish tour this summer, go see a bunch of fish shows, go have a good time, and then, yeah, there's lots of careers in science, and we need good scientists in this In this industry, and I'll use this as an opportunity to plug, I'm giving a three-day course at Cloverleaf University in Denver in March called Chemistry for Hashmakers. It's not a course on how to make hash.

22:12SpeakerYou guys already know how to do that. It's not a course on how to make BHO or how to do everything that the community already does, but it has to do with understanding the chemistry that you already know that you don't know that you already know yet. So it's like the chemistry underpinning of everything that's in the plant. I mean, I love hearing both you, Mark, and ATN talk about chemistry.

22:41SpeakerYou're talking about the chemistry of the plant, obviously, but I almost feel like I'm back in one of my graduate school discussions with people around the table trying to figure out Thank you for joining us today.

23:14SpeakerThere's all kinds of plants for agronomic production when you have to be able to grow in different climates or grow under different conditions that you may not be used to and so there's all kinds of different advances and again that genetically modified area that people like Monsanto and other people have sort of delved into which is that once you understand The genes that code for different proteins in the plant, you could then use that in a beneficial way to understand how you would make, say, like a drought tolerant hemp variety, or a hemp variety that would survive a flood, or a hemp variety that would perhaps have more nutritional value in the seed oil, because I do believe that Like Todd says, last century was the endocannabinoid deficient century, that this is the century where the fact that you can get much more protein per acre out of hemp than you can soybean.

24:18SpeakerIt's a matter of time before hemp takes over the planet, because at the end of the day, when you have to feed your hogs or you have to feed whatever food you're raising protein, At the end of the day, protein is protein, and whether it comes from hemp seed or whether it comes from soybean, if the infrastructure is there to be able to process hemp, that will be the driving force to get hemp grown on an industrial, very, very large scale.

24:45SpeakerSo where we see fields of soybeans and fields of corn today, we're going to see fields of hemp in the future because the seed oil and the protein is really going to be the economic driver to get that out into the marketplace. And so so many disciplines are needed. We need engineers that understand how to process and mill such large volumes of crop. We need people to understand, again, when you take hemp seed and you crush them, You get the protein out, which is sort of like the shell of the seed, which they turn into a flour.

25:23SpeakerWell, that flour, again, has all kinds of different applications in food and all different kinds of applications in materials. The fiber and everything that you can get from the plant to the paper and pulp industry has to be retooled such that they can process hemp fiber. And when they can process hemp fiber, you'll see, just the way we see today, a sawmill right across the street from a paper mill, we're going to see a hemp seed crushing facility right across the street from a hemp fiber and paper facility where they take basically the waste products and convert them into the materials.

26:05SpeakerWhen you stand inside a Walmart today, if you can, Look around you. Everything gets there in a box. All those boxes come from China. We need to replace all of that cardboard stock in our economy with hemp-derived cardboard and hemp-derived paper. And there's no question about it. It's cheaper. It's better for the planet. It has a lower carbon footprint. I mean, we all know this. The fact is that the driver for that is the fact that there's going to be an industry that's going to exist tomorrow that doesn't exist today.

26:44SpeakerAnd to go back to the question, ATN, the people who are going to college today and who are going out and getting degrees and getting training, those are going to be the executives and the leaders in that industry tomorrow. And yeah, go to college, get a degree in anything from business administration to agronomy to botanical sciences to chemistry. And come out in this industry because we need you.

27:08BubblemanYeah, I get people asking me all the time how to be a part of the industry and I'm just, you know, it's, how I became a part of it, I became a part of it when it wasn't an industry and it was just a passion. So it's a very hard thing to express to someone like, oh, just like make it your passion and then let that passion drive you like a flame towards.

27:28SpeakerWe were talking before about the absence of good dry sift and good high quality bubble hash. I mean, every hash maker who's listening right now should see that as, man, what an opportunity to take my craft and my art to the next level and brand products just like you have successfully done, Mark, and how Horatio has. And again, that is your intellectual property. Your proprietary brand and Horatio's proprietary brand are the brands that people are going to ask for because they know that the quality that's associated with it.

28:06Etienne FontanSo also we're talking things like organic chemistry, you know, things that will get you in a lab, you know, we're going to need lab technicians more than anything. We're going to need people. Analytical chemists, yes. Analytical absolutely is so needed. We need people on those UVH PLCs. We need people on those G's. We need people breaking all this down so that we're understanding more because there's literally, I think we can all agree, there's lifetimes, plural, of research that have to be done on cannabis.

28:34Etienne FontanSo, I mean, You can take your one asset and run with your own life thesis on it. So there's so many different needs from, you know, horticultural management and especially, you know, people are looking for nursery management. You know, so those are classes that people need to understand how to grow acreage in hectares and manage that. And that's not something that you can take, oh, I grew a little four by four so I can spread it into...

29:03Etienne FontanTonnage, that's not how agronomy works at all. And agriculture is large and people need to understand all the aspects. And so it's learning with cannabis because we're still missing 70 years of research. And even the hemp that we're working with now is still deficient, in my opinion, the French EU seed is still deficient to other hemp varietals that are out there to once hemp is accepted as not the marijuana.

29:30Etienne FontanThen they can loosen up those legislations. But until then, we're kind of stuck with this French EU seed all around that's breaking the door in, but it's still not the optimal usage for fiber, for seed, etc., etc. It grows, but it's still not the optimum product for that optimum hemp that we've been taught from reading in Jack's books, etc., etc. It's unfortunately slightly, eh. A bastardized cousin because they've had to actually just look at reducing the THC in it down to that .03, .04, you know, so that there's, you know, we don't understand what all aspects they've taken out of that type of hardiness of that plant.

30:13Etienne FontanWhere is it strong? Where is it weak? You know, will it grow well in these plains, not over here in these plains? It hasn't been acclimated on top of that. So going back to, you know, just the discussion, This should give you guys an understanding of the scope of this industry that is coming forward. It's very vast. It's very large. How many people are in Hash Church right now, Bubble Man?

30:40Bubbleman806 are watching, and then there's five of us.

30:44Etienne FontanEach one of us could take one hemp product ourselves and take it to market. Every single one of you on here watching right now, you can take your own idea and apply it into cannabis and be unique with it. That's how many diverse... Thanks for watching.

31:19BubblemanI just sit them both down at the table and go, so either of you are producing enough for everyone? Is that what you're saying? Because I see you both running out. I see you not able to fulfill the market's desires and needs. And the price is a little high, both at LPs and dispensaries. I don't know what people think. There's this huge gap. They're like, oh, oh.

31:44BubblemanLPs are selling for $12. Have you been to a dispensary lately? Is it just me? Sure there's grams for $6. I saw grams for $3, but it was shake that looked like it was picked off a grow room floor. That was the $3 gram stuff. And then of course you could buy $10 plus gram stuff just in the herbs, in the hashes. Fuck, forget about it. What's the most expensive oil and hash that you've seen for sale in dispensary in Canada, Horatio?

32:13SpeakerIf I answer that, the answer is THCA. But how much? $150? $100? How much for a gram? It's hard to answer on camera, but I've seen it remarketed for up to $320 a gram. Jesus.

32:29BubblemanAnd this is from the dispensaries who say the LPs are ripping us off.

32:36SpeakerNo, those kind of dispensaries wouldn't even touch a person like me because their margins don't actually support quality. So no, they're not even the same dispensaries. Dispensaries that might do that are also dealing with recreational.

32:52BubblemanWow, that's incredible to me. Either way, I support both dispensaries and LPs. I just say to both of them, don't be upset with the other because neither of you are producing enough for the market and the prices are too high. So that's just my message to LPs as well as dispensaries. Man, that is expensive, I have to say. Holy smokes. Especially when the people that... Why that price is there are terminal people.

33:24BubblemanThe majority of people seeking that product out are people that have an illness that can kill them. And so, of course, what better way to jack someone than if they're going to die? It's like, well, you know, this stuff is $350 a gram. It's like, wow. People are... Dude, I'll tell you, the stuff that I got from you in the past, I passed on to people who were sick at a cost to myself.

33:49BubblemanLike, never... Never to make, I just, oh man, I can't believe someone would charge $300 a gram.

33:56SpeakerWow. I look at it and the math is there. When you look at the country, you look at the availability, you look at the rarity, you look at the cycles it's produced, instantly it becomes there are only 26 grams to try if you want to be one of the people that say you know it. And it becomes like champagne, it becomes like caviar, it becomes like the last cigar in the country before it was banned.

34:19SpeakerIt becomes recreational. And that's what recreational is. And it steps in and basically says, could that have some medical use? Well, guess what? There's only six of it. And who wants it? Highest bidder, highest bidder, highest bidder.

34:31BubblemanBut do you think the highest bidder will be the recreation subs off of his nail or the lady who's dying of cancer who's like, I don't care how much it is. Just go get it for me.

34:41SpeakerBoth. The thing is both. The lady who read the latest article that THCA might reduce inflammation wants it medically, and the latest person that's like, oh my god, I can't believe that exists, wants it For the hype, but then physically finds that it actually makes a huge difference in their life and we have to find a way for the price to go down.

35:02BubblemanThen you have a situation like Cuban where you have a product that you're putting out at a beyond reasonable price and then people are jacking it up and selling it for a price where now people will be like, fucking Horatio, try to buy another product. The mansion for $3.50 a gram because Cuban gets that all the time and Cuban is not selling that hash for the price that people are upset about.

35:28Etienne FontanAnd that's a frustration and we as dispensary owners are frustrated to see people getting gouged like that as well because we know what we have to do and that it's about patience. So I don't know if you all can do in Canada what we do in the United States. In my city, it's mandated we have to give away 2% to Berkeley residents. But at the same time, we provide free medicine to over 150 low-income patients that meet those requirements each week because we understand that there are those people who are very sick, who are very terminal, who are actually spending all this money on other medications that they need help.

36:10Etienne FontanAnd We found that to be very successful, even when for a time we did a hospice program where we would donate a volcano and actually assist a patient to their final days because the frustration who would finally find a patient who passed away only after their relative would come and say, hey, we just want to say this person had passed away. So it's always reminded us and always kept our compassion in check to realize that we always understand that there's a full range of product.

36:43Etienne FontanWe have everything from the $5 all the way up to the $60 and everything in between. We have to carry all different kinds because of so many different income classes, but it's up to the dispensary to choose what to actually retail it at. And that's dependent on where they are, their rent, their location, their staff. I have 70 staff people, but I can still afford low income cannabis and still afford to give away other cannabis because I also have those higher end products to sell.

37:17Etienne FontanAnd we have certain products that we spot that Our sponsored like $60 grams were to assist with our low income people. And so people are actually paying an extra $5 on a $55 product to donate to give back to the lower income because they also realize as well. So it's also actively listening to your community so that you understand that For a while there, we were looking at just going all with all higher end products because that's all we're getting in.

37:49Etienne FontanBut it was our lower income patients that came to us and said, hey, we can't afford this. This, as you would say, that flow room shape works for us at this price and I can afford that. So I need that and I need that range available. So it's actively listening to your patient base as well and understanding that You know, as much as you all want to have, and I try to only have as much high-end as possible because I'd rather harm reduce, not everyone can afford every range of medicine.

38:19Etienne FontanBut those who can and should, and it's always a frustration to hear people attacking Cuban or Horatio or anyone else who's a producer for what the retail price goes for. You know, a higher quality product commands a higher price wholesale-wise for what they choose to retail at it. You know, that's their choice. So, not everybody's doing it bad, but, man.

38:46SpeakerNobody can complain. That's the thing. Nobody can complain. Nobody can complain. It sells out and there's no more. And there's no more.

38:55BubblemanHey, I wanted to welcome Horatio and Jeff Church. I didn't even get to welcome them, so welcome guys, welcome. We've got one of our biggest audiences happening. I think we might, you know, maybe get up to a thousand live viewers today. We'll have to see what's going on. We're at 860 right now and it's probably time to blow smoke towards the Vatican. Let's see that new pipe ratio.

39:19BubblemanCome on. Come on.

39:25Etienne FontanYeah, what'd you get ratio? I heard about it.

39:27SpeakerUh... I broke my pipe on the way out the door to the glass event and I had seen my scientific glass blower for like all my gear early in the week and I'm like dude if I ever break my pipe you know it should probably be you that I buy from and I can't really just go buy anything and then so I broke mine and I went to this thing and I was like oh this is going to be shit I have to have something to dab with I'm not going to dab off a fucking joint tonight and luckily he found a piece to put on the shelf so I picked it up.

39:59SpeakerIt's this clamshell top fab egg thing that... The most important thing is it's not this glass that's critical, it's every other piece of glass he blows for me. So it's kind of my first local piece at the same time. So I'm more excited that I was able to buy from him because without his glass blowing, I wouldn't exist.

40:23BubblemanYeah, well that's cool. That's great that you got yourself a nice piece of glass and...

40:31BubblemanI'm going to smoke at yours.

40:33Etienne FontanWhat are you smoking on, Horatio and Mr. Church?

40:39SpeakerCanadian Bubba Kush Live Resin. It's not my favorite in the morning. It kind of makes me tired.

40:49BubblemanWhat about you, Jeff?

40:49SpeakerWhat's puffing? I'm smoking on this beautiful sun-grown Slimer resin. It's some flower rosin from Slimer or Chernobyl I guess a lot of people call it or Golden Ticket. It's a wonderful hazy limey strain.

41:06Etienne FontanI was about to say, what's in that genetic? It sounds interesting.

41:10SpeakerYeah, I'm not exactly sure on the genetics. I just know all of the different names that it goes by. This one, the grower calls it Slimer.

41:20BubblemanSlimer. Hey, so are you, do you ever puff or make full melt anymore? You used to be a serious full melt maker.

41:29SpeakerYou know, I have not made full melt in a while. You know, we've just been doing the rosin thing and... Moved over to the dry sift for a rosin precursor because it's a lot easier to not have microbial issues. We don't have a freeze dryer, and so having the microbes stay down on a bubble batch is really hard. So just wanting to have medicine that passes microbial, that's kind of where we've moved.

42:03SpeakerWhat microbes are you seeing? Well, you know, I mean, we've seen all kinds of things. The one that really started all of this was Analytical 360 came back with E. coli in the bubble hash rosin. The real nasty E. coli or the common E. coli, do you know? They weren't able to tell me. And so, you know, I think that it was probably more likely the real common E. coli that wouldn't cause any illness from what I was looking at.

42:33SpeakerBut I didn't see the culture. I'm not a microbiologist, so I, you know. Just kind of trusted them and we've moved on to safer products for the moment. I definitely, you know, in the future we really want to get a freeze dryer so that we can step up that game and have less microbes present in our hash.

43:00BubblemanYou want to get a laboratory grade freeze dryer because I'm suspecting that this freeze dryer that a lot of these guys are using right now are not lab grade. So it's not really going to take into account the measurements. It's basically like you want lab grade is all I know with the freeze dryer. So that's definitely a good point of advice for any of you guys out there looking for the home model.

43:23BubblemanHarvest Rite sells one for about 7,000 US. They do have cheaper models for 2,000 and 3,000 US, but those would be the non-lab grade versions. You want the lab-grade version.

43:34SpeakerYeah, the process I'm familiar with is called, it's actually called a lyophilizer, right? You're doing lyophilization, and so if you look up freeze dryer, you might find a different type of apparatus as opposed to a lyophilizer. I think a lyophilizer is what you want, right?

43:52BubblemanYeah, the one... The one that we just bought, you can check that out at harvestright.com. They have home freeze dryers, and then they have scientific freeze dryers, and it's the scientific freeze dryer that we're using for the Bubble Man brand.

44:10SpeakerYeah, it's essentially the same thing. It's a lyophilizer. They can call it a freeze dryer, but yeah, it's the process of lyophilization. That's what it's scientifically referred to as.

44:19BubblemanThat is what it's doing.

44:21SpeakerYes, right.

44:23BubblemanYeah, so there's a whole bunch of really cool information under the specs and under what this particular unit does. Tabletop unit, four trays, large interior, freeze dry up to two gallons of material per batch, four liter ice condensing capacity.

44:38SpeakerIt's all controllable with a touch screen. And are you trapping what's going to the vacuum at all?

44:46BubblemanYeah, we're just, haven't run it a single time yet. It's just literally showing up in the lab tomorrow or today, depending on if Tony picks it up. What he's done is he's set up his pseudo unit, which is, you know, what he shared on Hash Church with... With the cold trap and the vac chamber to put the bubble hash under pressure and remove that moisture, he's only doing that until the freeze dryer comes and then it's going to be all about the freeze dryer.

45:21BubblemanAnd we'll see. We'll see. No terps were trapped in the drying of the bubble hash. Literally not a single terp was vacced out. They're all present. It's super loud. Orange creamsicle and a couple other strains that are just ridiculous. Hopefully Tony will come in later today and he'll maybe be in the lab and he can show us a little bit of that because, man, it looks nice.

45:47BubblemanThat's a good thing. 901. I think that might be the first time we ever broke 900. Boys. To a thousand!

45:59SpeakerYeah.

46:05SpeakerSo yeah, I still love smoking on the bubble hash, but I just have to get it from the producers around here. It's, you know, one of my favorite smokes. I've actually ended up purchasing a lot, which is completely different than what I've done for the past few years, so yeah.

46:22BubblemanNice. It's good to mix it up. Oh, Jeff is out. I was just about to ask him what he thought about the 25 Drippy Drippy.

46:33Etienne FontanYeah, I was going to ask him some other stuff too. There it is.

46:39BubblemanWelcome back, Jeff. Welcome back. We thought we lost you. We thought we lost you.

46:45SpeakerHit the wrong button up here. Went to a bookmark instead of the microphone.

46:52Etienne FontanAre you finding the product that you're purchasing as good as your product that you produce or better or not as good?

47:00SpeakerWell, the one thing that I would say, you know, I really like the melt of the products that I've been able to get. Although, you know, a lot of the stuff is made from fresh frozen, which is not my favorite. You know, it's something that you have to keep in the fridge or else it's going to break down and You know, once it kind of whites out, that's when you start losing terpenes and, you know, your flavor goes down quite a bit in Bubble Hatch.

47:28SpeakerYou know, my favorite is much like what Bubble Man is into and, you know, the Bizarre Brothers, my good friends in Oakland as well, and that's properly cured resin that's then extracted because, you know, having that proper cure, you're just going to lock in those terpenes and it's not going to break down You know, after extraction.

47:53Etienne FontanAwesome sauce.

47:56BubblemanNothing wrong with some awesome sauce. People ask me when I'm going to be able to get to the U.S. I'm hoping this year sometime, probably a good halfway through the year. A little raw hashish with a little arabic.

48:10SpeakerYes, sir.

48:11Etienne FontanSo Trudeau's backing out, saying, trying to use international treaties as a stopgap now, huh, in Canada?

48:20BubblemanI've kind of stopped reading it. You know, once he hired that top cop guy to Bill Blair or whatever to be the guy, I was just kind of like, okay, I'm just going to put my head down for a while, focus on some other things, and just hope that that doesn't turn into what, you know, I guess what we're assuming it's potentially going to turn in. Which then the...

48:41BubblemanThe other news of Trudeau coming out and saying, oh, that he might have hit a snag. It's like, well, you must have known about these treaties before you were elected prime minister. They have existed for decades. Guessing you looked into it.

48:55SpeakerWe'll see what happens. Fucking treaties, man. The treaties are outdated bullshit. It's backed by the U.S. government. They need to fucking go away.

49:03BubblemanOh, it's a nightmare, dude. It's definitely what's kept everyone from playing for decades.

49:08SpeakerI know. I couldn't believe that the Obama administration actually had some deputy motherfucker get down on Jamaica on that. I mean, that was the whole thing about Jamaica, right? They were saying that, oh, yeah, it doesn't, you know, it was that... I don't know.

49:24BubblemanObama went to Jamaica. It was the first time a president had gone to Jamaica in, like, a long time. Like many, many presidents. And when he went, everything slowed down. And so now we're just waiting. It's like waiting. The odd time I'll call Jamaica and just be like, oh, what's the word on the street or whatever? And they'll be like, February or March or everyone's just guessing, you know.

49:47BubblemanNobody really knows when the permits will come, I suspect, other than the people who are writing about it. And they're certainly not talking about it in public. Jamaica is the most worst.

50:02BubblemanWe're excited. You know, when it does come through, we certainly have no doubts whatsoever that we will receive one of those permits, and then it's on.

50:18Etienne FontanWe're back to hurry up and wait mode.

50:21SpeakerYeah, you know, we're ready. Obama needs to knock it off the list and de-schedule and de-regulate the material on his way by executive action on the way out. End of story. That needs to happen. He needs to basically realize it's a huge social injustice. It's on his watch. Fix it now, President Obama. He needs to fix it, man, on the way out. He will be known as the black man that legalized the nugget, but what the fuck is wrong with that?

50:55BubblemanI mean, everything's right with that, in my opinion, but... He doesn't want to attain his legacy? Come on, now.

51:04SpeakerIt's bullshit.

51:05BubblemanChad likes dabs on his dabs. He likes dabs on his dabs. Just saying.

51:14SpeakerIt's the power of the alcohol, pharmaceutical, for-profit prison industry... Thank you so much for joining us.

51:35BubblemanVery just like, it's just what was going on, and I felt this air towards them, and I'd be like, this is, I mean, we've got to stop them, and then it's like, then one day we were like, hey, like, we need to, we read Jack's book, and we were like, we need to get hemp growing, and, you know, part of us were like, well, let's tell everyone what atrocities have happened against hemp.

51:54BubblemanLet's tell everyone about the conspiracy and all this and that, and then we were kind of like, wait a minute, what if we just bypassed all that and went to the very people that were Thank you so much for joining us.

52:36BubblemanWe wanted to show him that this was going to be the second time that hemp could be used in this economic statement that was unfathomable, which a billion dollar economic statement in the 30s was unfathomable. Most people couldn't even, like the word billion would be like gajillion. It just wasn't a word that was used throughout normal days. If you were a millionaire, that was fairly inconceivable. So we showed him that, look, it's not unrealistic to think of this crop as a potentially worldwide trillion dollar crop.

53:07BubblemanWe're not just pulling this out of our ass. And we backed it up with so much information that we gave the license to grow hemp. We were just like, oh, it's a conspiracy. They're all against us. And it's like, you know what? If it is a conspiracy, there's like one guy that knows what's going on and the rest of them are so stupid. I'll dab for that.

53:49Etienne FontanAnd get active and get involved. You don't like the media, become the media. You don't like the politicians, go become one and change it, you know. Stop talking about it. And as much as I love that utopian belief, Mr. Skeldone, I have no belief that Obama will do anything because he has had his opportunity and he couldn't get anything done with this crappy Congress anyway. He's been able to get a lot done.

54:13Etienne FontanI have no faith in him. He's been bought and sold like the next politician by the pharmaceutical industry who advertises by the billions now of one of only two countries in the entire fucking world that will allow pharmaceutical companies to advertise on television. The United States is one and our television is saturated with Talk to your doctor about, talk to your doctor about in over 30 seconds of who's caused you anal bleeding, fucking shitting out of your eyeballs, bleeding out of your ears.

54:48Etienne FontanIf your symptoms of your drug are more than the actual words in your commercials, then why are we allowing the shit on our television? Which is only causing it to become more of a stake. So you really think now in Obama's last year he's going to get on his little horse and say no against the pharmaceutical industry right now?

55:11BubblemanI've always thought those pharmaceutical commercials, not that I've had cable TV for like, ooh God, it's been since 1998 when I cut my cable. But before that I had it. And I'd see those commercials and I always thought they reminded me of like a Saturday Night Live skit. Like, it was hilarious. It was like, side effects may include jumping out of windows.

55:31SpeakerYeah, like you can't wait for Saturday Night Live to spoof it. You're like, why aren't the writers at Saturday Night Live spoofing this, right?

55:42BubblemanThey would. I've seen them do it before. They didn't even have to fucking change the spoof. They literally copied it word for word and it was funny. And that's sort of frightening when you think about it.

55:53SpeakerYeah, so I mean I hear what ATN is saying and if you look at recently who Obama's put into head the Food and Drug Administration is basically a pharmaceutical insider and Who gets paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to consult for the very companies he now has to regulate. Hundreds of thousands? Like per meeting probably. Well, I mean, he's an insider. He's been in the industry for years and now they're basically putting him in charge as the chief of the administration that has to regulate the industry.

56:29SpeakerAnd I get it. He understands how the pharmaceutical industries work just because he's worked in it for years. But again, his knowledge and his financial ties to the industry just looks really dirty, really dirty, right? I mean, how could you basically regulate the industry that you're tied to? It just doesn't make sense. And again, the waffle language that the surgeon, not the surgeon general, but, The new head of the DEA has used in terms of cannabis.

56:59SpeakerI mean, obviously, he came in right after the Cole memorandum, and his basically knees were cut off to basically do anything to enforce anything having to do with cannabis. But still, from what I understand, the budget is that they're not supposed to be enforcing it, again, in only the states that have legal laws, but in all the other states, it's wide open. And here in Pennsylvania and other states out east, yeah, basically law enforcement are busting people for weed.

57:29SpeakerAnd I think it's like a $13 billion expense on the bottom line that us taxpayers pay for to what? To clog our court systems with guys who are trying to sell a couple pounds of weed? Give me a fucking break. There's better things that we need to be doing With our resources in the government that has nothing to deal with the trade and sale of cannabis.

57:55BubblemanThat's obvious. Nothing more is obvious than the amount of money that your country spends on war. The amount of money that is spent on war would pretty much solve the majority of homeless and hunger.

58:11SpeakerIt's a machine. It's a machine that basically it's the thing that killed the Kennedys. It's the war machine, dude. It's a greedy part of the U.S. economy that thrives on us bombing and killing people and needing to make expensive planes and bombers that we don't need.

58:30BubblemanHave you seen the cartoon with Uncle Sam on the couch and the psychiatrist is saying, well, sir, it seems as though you're suffering from an industrial military complex?

58:41SpeakerYeah, have some bubble hash, you'll feel much better, you know?

58:45Etienne FontanSee that 25 on your shirt, bubble man? Add 10 more and that's how many banks I've been kicked out of. I can't even get a bank to do my business, okay? So I have no faith that Obama is basically going to change if I can't even get my fucking bank.

59:00SpeakerThat's bullshit. We need to find an attorney to basically sue the federal government and basically sue them on the grounds that they're interfering with free enterprise, which is a tragic number.

59:11Etienne FontanYeah, that's right. I'm on the board of the National Campus Industries Association. Have you? And we're working with lobbyists on Capitol Hill to change these laws. Let's go. Absolutely.

59:21SpeakerGo after the top. What lawsuit should be against the people?

59:25Etienne FontanWe're going to have a lobby day coming up here in March where we actually will, a group of 100 plus of us will actually go around on Capitol Hill. And actually talk to our representatives and actually, again, like we did last year and the year before that, make them aware. So this is where you have to be active. All 800 and some of you on here, you can be active in your own community.

59:45SpeakerWe should name the president, the vice president, the entire cabinet, and the entire congress as basically defendants in this case because they're all guilty. You can cover the cost of the case, Mark?

59:58BubblemanExactly. Now that sounds like an expensive court case, but I was going to say... Yeah, but you know, there's got to be an attorney with a big pile of money that's listening and that... Perhaps, yeah, is you can... Did you like that? I got the power there. You can open up a sidearm of your business where you deal arms, like weapons. And I bet you the banks let you in right away, like the BPG weapons arms division, where it's like, oh, come on, you guys.

1:00:30Etienne FontanSorry, Mark. If I had to get all that stuff up in the military, I would probably think of that as a way to go around. I've had friends of mine say, guys, if y'all did yogurt, y'all would be billionaires right now because y'all are so full of piss and vinegar and fighting the system. I'm like, yeah, because we're right. We have a right. That's why I'm suing the government.

1:00:52Etienne FontanI've been suing the government since 2012. And trust me, it's expensive. It's hard. It breaks your spirit sometimes. But you just got to keep on keeping on and remember it's about the patients. And so as much as I want to hear other people's government, I'm suing government and it's hard. I'm getting my little victories here and there, but there's no guarantee I'm going to win in the end.

1:01:16Etienne FontanBut at least I got to try, even if I get my head kicked in. I still got to try.

1:01:21BubblemanYou got to try. You got to try. Yeah, sorry, Mark. I just had, I was like sitting on that joke for so long. I was like, damn, I'm never going to get a chance to say it. I literally, if he If he goes off again, I'm muting him and I'm saying the joke.

1:01:33SpeakerThat's okay.

1:01:34BubblemanThis joke won't be funny in three more minutes. Not that it was that funny even when I said it, but hey, sometimes you just got to sacrifice.

1:01:42SpeakerNo, they got to end 280E. You know, 280E was never meant to do what it's doing, which is crippling the industry right now in that they can't bank their money. They can't write off. Thank you for joining us.

1:02:18BubblemanThat's where we belong. Like, oh yeah, you need to go into the backyard, like past where the people smoke cigarettes. Yeah, yeah, that, okay, yeah, you're fine there. It's like that's where the cannabis user has been placed for so long that now, you know, a lot of people are jumping on into the industry that they don't come from that history anymore. They're like, yeah, I've been in the industry since 2011 or 2009 or 2013, and that's cool.

1:02:40BubblemanI respect that because I do believe that

1:02:47BubblemanThe activists that have been fighting this all this time, the thing that they now need is to incorporate people that know how to run mainstream business through banks and through, you know, all of these things. They're the ones that are going to get people like ATN. Why can't ATN get into a bank? It's ridiculous because that's the way the system's set up. But when someone comes along that's buddies with that bank that's like, You know, like, oh yeah, I can get you into that bank, no problem.

1:03:14BubblemanIt's like that, those relationships are there like that. And it's, if you don't, the forces, the division that's happened for so long, we've been broken off and divided into a little corner, and now we're trying to get everything done, and a lot of people are like, oh, we can't let anyone help us because they've been against pot all these years. It's like, well, you know what, those are the very people, believe it or not, that are going to, you know, make those two parts a whole, and then boom, now, Let's do this.

1:03:40BubblemanLet's see how we can do this outside of prohibition and outside of, you know, I'm not being in any way pro, like, you know, the mentality that we need to over-regulate cannabis. I think of cannabis like mint. Imagine if they were doing all this for mint right now, like it needed to be, you know, grown in secure facilities and, you know, sold through pharmaceutical, like it's just so ridiculous that...

1:04:07BubblemanYou have to play it out and watch it through. In a perfect world, we would get away from all this over-regulation. Put standards in, just like you do with the food industry or any other industry, and let us go to town on it.

1:04:22SpeakerSo, you know, one thing about once we get it legalized, we've got to be really careful. You know, Washington State's kind of the bad stepchild or whatever of legalization. We've got no home grow and we've got no ability to pass a joint here in Washington State still. So it's still a felony for me to pass a joint to anybody that's not a medical patient. And we're actually getting rid of our medical access system that we had.

1:04:46SpeakerSo the ability for growers to grow a nice amount of cannabis and get it out there to medical patients is being stripped away from us.

1:04:55BubblemanSo here's a question, Jeff. If you guys are legally not allowed to pass a joint to someone that's not a medical patient,

1:05:05BubblemanIs it within your legal rights about their private medical status? Like, are you able in the country to just go around and be like, hey, I want to know what your medical is. I want to know if you're diabetic. I want to know if you have cancer. I want to know because I can't share this joint unless I know that. That seems like it goes against...

1:05:24SpeakerWell, here's the thing. I mean, realiztically, passing a joint between anybody is a felon in Washington State. That's what it is. And the reason why I say only if you're medical is that allowed is because you're allowed to have what's called a collective garden here in Washington State, which you can actually, two medical patients standing right side by side can share a joint, and that's a collective garden under the law.

1:05:49SpeakerSo there's nowhere in the law that says if you're a medical patient you can share a We have a couple bills going on that are for home growing and sharing.

1:06:09SpeakerAnd so the one big one that's House Bill 2629, I really want to have, you know, send the message out there that we need to support this bill. It would allow for people to grow their own at home up to six plants. If you want to grow a little bit more, all you would be risking was a civil infraction until you grew quite a bit more and then it's misdemeanor and then Thank you for watching.

1:06:59SpeakerUnder this bill. And then, you know, it would just be a civil infraction up to 72 ounces. And then if you had more than that, it becomes a misdemeanor than a felony. So it's kind of this tiered approach to make everybody happy on the law enforcement side so that there are actually penalties for people that are growing amounts that would be possibly diverted to the black market.

1:07:25SpeakerBut still allowing for citizens of Washington State to have their rights. You know, every other state in the Union that has legalized, and Washington, D.C., Has the right for home grow. But we don't have that here. And they also share the ability to share cannabis. So, you know, we've got to be careful once we're legalizing and regulating this that we don't over-regulate and remove the ability for consumers to be able to consume cannabis, grow small amounts of it, and share.

1:07:57SpeakerYou know, I mean, I should be able to buy a pack of joints for my buddy on his birthday and give it to him. You know, if it's completely legal, it's regulated, all the taxes are paid on it, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. But I can't do it. You know, stores can't advertise a, you know, buy people Christmas presents sale or something like that, you know, because you can't buy it for anybody else.

1:08:19SpeakerYeah.

1:08:20BubblemanI think Mark Emery did time for passing a joint, like in Saskatchewan. I'm pretty sure he did like six months or something, literally just for passing a joint.

1:08:29SpeakerImagine if they regulated alcohol in the same way.

1:08:35SpeakerWow. There's an interesting proposal from a legislature in Vermont that until they legalize cannabis, that they were going to stop all alcohol sales in the state. I saw that. They actually have a bill to stop all alcohol sales in the state until cannabis is legalized. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, again, if that's got any grounding, but it just seems that Again, if you were to, like Mark, you make the parallels to mint.

1:09:07SpeakerIt's funny because in my former life, I've done a lot of work with mint. And again, when I look at cannabis, when I look at it under the microscope, it reminds me a lot of mint because there's glandular trichomes and there's beds and there's little sissile ones and there's small ones, there's hairs. It looks, so to me, in the chemistry world, or in the world that, you know, I operate in, which is at the molecular level, man, it's all chemistry to me, man.

1:09:35SpeakerI don't give a shit about the law. It's just the chemistry of what's going on in the plant. And to me, it's beautiful at that level because when you're looking at, you know, things like under electron microscope and you're looking at the features of the plant and how beautiful it is, there are no laws. It's just, it's mother nature and the beauty of the plant And they just need to, you know, again, regulate it like you say, just like mint.

1:10:01SpeakerIt's an essential oil that grows on a plant, and that's the way it should be regulated.

1:10:06BubblemanYep, I agree with that 100%. Well, I pretty much said that, so of course I agree with it. Well, we're up to 933 viewers, and I have a feeling that potentially Todd and Chimera and Rob will be coming in in a little bit. To step us a little deeper into some conversation.

1:10:28SpeakerI'm going to go excuse myself for an attitude adjustment. I'll be back momentarily, folks.

1:10:36Etienne FontanBut you can't get high on screen with the rest of us?

1:10:39SpeakerI live in Pennsylvania, man. Pennsylvania, man. We haven't gotten our shit together yet.

1:10:44Etienne FontanI went to college in West Virginia. I'm well over at Pennsylvania.

1:10:48SpeakerHey, this time tomorrow, though, I'll be in Oregon. So I'm on my way out to Oregon where the laws are right. So we'll see all my peeps out in Oregon real soon, tomorrow. What a great state that is. Jeff, wouldn't you agree that the laws in Oregon are just a much better situation than what's going on in Washington? Oh my goodness, it's way better. I've got quite a few friends down there in Oregon, and they're able to pass cannabis to each other.

1:11:16SpeakerAs soon as the law passed, they were able to pass cannabis. That's just an amazing thing, being able to grow your own. I believe they have six plants down there that they're allowed to grow. And so, you know, being able to grow your own, you grow your six plants, your buddy grows his six, everybody grows their six. Four ounces too, right? Isn't four ounces the legal amount you could have?

1:11:39SpeakerI think it is something like that. I'm not going to say I'm sure, but something close to that. It's better than the ounce that we have here. I'm not saying an ounce is bad. I'm not saying anything like that. I think an ounce is great to be able to take around with you, and if we were able to give that ounce to another person, that's what I'm all about.

1:11:58SpeakerAnd grow that ounce for another person without monetary gain, you know. I understand regulation. We need to have a regulated marketplace if we're going to have legalization continue to be flourishing throughout. We were able to give that ounce to another person. Feedback.

1:12:25BubblemanYeah, that's me trying to answer someone in chat. And I guess when I pushed a button on my keyboard, it unmuted my YouTube channel. So I went as quick as I could. Sorry about that, Jeff. Trying my best here, man. I'm trying my best. We got cut. We're allowed now 150 grams on the federal level. We were allowed. Everyone was allowed a different amount. My amount was 600 grams that I was allowed to carry with me, which I thought was absurd because it was like, man, that's like a lot.

1:12:53Bubbleman150 grams.

1:12:57BubblemanThat's enough for me if I could have 50 grams of each of those things. I could go away on like a two-week trip and have more than enough meds for that trip and not be worried about running out. So I'm not too bummed out about the 150.

1:13:13SpeakerIt hurts Raymond. I look at it and I'm like, good God, that guy, his fingers are joints. It's Would we be okay if they figured it out? Like if they came back and then said 150 weed equals 5 grams, then we'd be fucked, wouldn't we? Like are we living in a loophole right now?

1:13:32Bubbleman150 grams for Remo, I mean he doesn't, he smokes a lot, there's no doubt about it. Like probably 20 or 30 grams a day. So that's still five days for him. You know, he's not going to pull off the two weeks, but he definitely still has a little bit of a trip. It's true. The guy does smoke an unbelievable amount of cannabis. Hopefully he can come in and talk to us today.

1:13:53BubblemanI talked to him a little bit yesterday. I never know how to get a hold of him. That's the problem.

1:14:03SpeakerSo is that 150 grams on your person, or is that what your cap is at your house as well? At my house? Did you say? Yeah, I was wondering is that 150 grams just what you can carry on your person or is that the cap that you can have at your house as well?

1:14:23BubblemanNo, my house is, my limit at my house is almost 5,000 grams, so close to 10 pounds. I'm allowed to have close to 10 pounds where my grow is and then carry around like 150 grams. That was like a decision that the Supreme Court made, I believe, when they decided derivatives were allowed as well. Is that what happened, Horatio, or was it earlier than that?

1:14:49SpeakerIt was kind of, it was always weird. And then it, like, weren't we first just kind of trapped in BC where we had extracts? And that's why we were able to run around, but we couldn't really leave. That's what gave BC the advantage over the country for, I think, a decent amount of time until Owen Smith's case went up to the higher level. It was still a bummer that...

1:15:11BubblemanTo go to a place like Toronto every time for me, because I don't carry cannabis with me and I think it's ridiculous to think that I'm going to have to carry a pound of weed with me to Toronto and make hash while I'm there. Why can't I just bring hash? So of course I would just bring hash and that was basically how... You know, once it changed, I felt a lot better.

1:15:32BubblemanI always felt a little nervous at the airport when they were going through my bags. I'm like, ah, I mean, I'm sure the guy at the airport doesn't even know the laws because he's not, he doesn't work for Health Canada. He's not even a police officer. He doesn't even have the right to search our bags without our permission. And in fact, in Canada, at the airport, you go through and you like put your bag through and then it goes through and it has something in it.

1:15:56BubblemanIf you say no, you can leave. You just aren't allowed to get on the plane, which always blew me away about Canada. I just thought that that was like another Saturday Night Live skit in the making right there. You know, go through the metal detector with a bunch of crazy shit and then just decide to leave because they're not even allowed to look in your bag. Now, I'm sure if it was the imprint of a weapon, a gun or a knife or something, they could easily call the RCMP.

1:16:20BubblemanBut what I'm saying is if they don't know what it is and they want to look and you say no, it used to be at least that you could literally leave the airport. You didn't have to get searched, which that's pretty mind-blowing, don't you think? That's up there with LPs not having to test their product. Isn't that what Chimera was, or who was telling Chimera that? That was David Hutchinson.

1:16:45BubblemanDavid Hutchinson, that's who I forgot to invite in today. He's always good for a little bit of conversation.

1:16:54BubblemanI have a hard time remembering everyone, I'm not going to lie. I forget. But I do thank you guys, the core group. I think I'm going to start sending out emails, being check in advanced in the week, who wants to come in, because I'd really love to see everyone come in at 9 o'clock when it opens up and just get the conversation in full speed. I think the people listening deserve that and it's Not too, too much to ask from the people that are coming in and being on the panel.

1:17:21Etienne FontanWe have about 600 people right there, so I mean, a hundred of mine, we need to fill them with knowledge. Yeah, there you go.

1:17:34SpeakerYou know, a good idea would be to open up the room a little bit early and then go live at nine, because then we could actually fill up the room a little bit and go live with more people in the room than just you.

1:17:47BubblemanYeah, the only problem I had with that one time is I went live, I sent out the link and I don't exactly know, it was a weird glitch, but D420K opened up the link before anyone else, even me, before I got into it because I sent the link out before I opened it. And what happened was the camera stayed on him the entire show. I was moving it on my computer because I click on each of your screens when you talk so the camera records your screen.

1:18:18BubblemanWell, this whole hash church was recorded on D420K's screen, so because of that, I have always made sure that I'm in the chat room, it's live, and then I invite everyone in. But we could try that for sure. I mean, I think I could easily send out a message Saturday night and get confirmation from people as well. We're all adults here. It would probably be easy enough to say, yeah, I can be there at 9 o'clock if that's when it's starting, or I can't be there at 9 o'clock if that's when it's starting, either or.

1:18:49BubblemanI never complain too much, that's for sure. I'm happy that you guys are able to spend the amount of time that you are here in the chat, and I know that the people listening sure appreciate it.

1:19:01Etienne FontanAnd we appreciate you, Bubble Man.

1:19:07Etienne FontanWhat's that again? I said, and we appreciate you, Bubble Man.

1:19:12BubblemanOh, well, sweet. Hey, 920, that reminds me of 420. Let's have another bowl, shall we? Let's.

1:19:19Etienne FontanLet's do this. I'm having some fresh off the butts candy jack. Candy. Butter. Yeah, that's good. And what are you smoking on? The same stuff?

1:19:36BubblemanI'm sitting and I'm going to hit the Purple Candy Master Scout rip again. It's quite delicious. It packs a nice bang. I find that it's really nice if you eat like a medible. Or two. And then you hit a big rip of this, you get this kind of really good like, whoo, almost like what I suspect people get when I see them take a big dab and it looks like they're going to fall down.

1:19:58BubblemanThat's how I recreate that look.

1:20:10Etienne FontanMr. Scaldown, any new word in science this week?

1:20:15SpeakerOh, let's see, uh, In general or in cannabinoid science? Well, in anything. Okay. Tell us something useful, Dr. Mark. All right. Well, here's an interesting little tidbit of a fact. So, you know, High Times had published an article on what the real boiling point of THC was. Horatio, didn't you and I iterate on this? I know I had sent the Facebook page a comment basically saying that their boiling point was wrong, and I've corrected like so many other references that are online that basically reports Mishulam's boiling point, which is like what, like 150 Fahrenheit, like 312 centigrade or something like that?

1:21:11SpeakerI'm sorry, the other way around? So 150 centigrade, like 312 Fahrenheit? So, or, I'm misquoting that number off the top of my head, but I think it's 155 if I remember correctly. Anyway, that's the boiling point of THC under a vacuum, because that's what Mishul did when he did the distillation. He distilled it under high vacuum, so that's not the boiling point at atmospheric pressure, which is what you would be dealing with if you were doing it on a nail, right?

1:21:42SpeakerYou're not in high vacuum. And so, yeah, every... One from Steep Hill to just about every online reference I could find has got the THC's boiling point at the Mishulam reported boiling point, which again is under high vacuum. So there is this guy on the Hashbook or on the Hash Church Facebook page that basically posted a thing called a nomogram. And what a nomogram is, is it enables you to correct The boiling point of a liquid based on its boiling point under high vacuum by drawing a line between the vacuum pressure and the observed boiling point and where that line intersects this line in the middle tells you what the estimated boiling point of THC is.

1:22:40SpeakerSo, drum roll, do you want to guess what's the boiling point of THC?

1:22:47SpeakerI'm not guessing. I shut off my nail, and I'm just going to heat it back up and wait until it boils and answer that. What's that overused three-number acronym in this can of worms? 420. 420 degrees centigrade, according to the nomogram, which I think is about 788...

1:23:14SpeakerIf I remember correctly, here, I can do the conversion real quick. But yeah, so if you take the straight line between the boiling point and the vacuum that Mishulam had, that goes right through 420. And yeah, that's 788 Fahrenheit. So bang, there's the answer, world. The THC boiling point is 788 degrees Fahrenheit, 420 degrees Celsius. I've got to turn my email up.

1:23:52SpeakerMy reclaim is THC. Yeah, but the other thing that you have to remember with this is that... When you, if you tried boiling THC at room temperature, because it's over, if you weren't under pressure, if you weren't under a vacuum pressure, like when you're making the clear, you're doing a short path distillation or a Cougar distillation under a high vacuum, you want to try to keep the lowest possible temperature you can.

1:24:19SpeakerAnd if you try to do this without having it under vacuum, You're going to degrade. The THC is going to start degrading the CBN. What you're going to see is you're going to see a shift in that boiling point because the boiling point of CBN is slightly different than that of THC. It's what we call in chemistry a reactive distillation because as you're actually doing a distillation, you're actually doing chemistry.

1:24:46SpeakerYou're not just distilling something to distill it. You're actually changing the molecular structure In heating it up in that process. But if you heat it up and you're not under high vacuum, the air that's there is going to react with the cyclohexene ring and aromatize that north ring of the molecule. You know when you're looking at THC, there's three pieces of chicken wire. That top piece of chicken wire turns into a benzene ring.

1:25:13SpeakerThat's CBN. And that'll happen if you... If you heat it up, now when you flash heat it up, like when you do it on a nail and you're just doing a very small amount very quickly on a very hot surface, it volatilizes much quicker than the kinetics of being able to oxidize it to CBN. But if you had a whole pot of say plant extract and you were trying to just do a poop distillation to basically poop over your THC, most of what you're going to get out of that is CBN because it's going to be at such a, Thank you for joining us.

1:26:09BubblemanI wish Kamara was in here. He had sent me a really good interesting sort of breakdown that gets into a little bit of what you were talking about, just in the sense of when we do chemistry with these compounds that we can potentially alter them, and the proof, of course, was in the new compound that you were talking about, Mark, which was... What was it? Hashishin.

1:26:29SpeakerHashishin, yeah. I mean, so that is just so cool because- Right. That's created through a process. Right. It's created in a process. So I don't believe that that's made in the plant. I believe that that's made after the resin's taken off the plant, which to me is fascinating because that says that there could be a number of different chemistries that you can do- Endless. Dr. I think it's important to the plant intentionally to actually to change it and to make the oil more stable or to make it like more bioavailable or to make it like more potent for a particular kind of cancer.

1:27:09SpeakerAgain, people have talked about CBN. CBN has a very profound effect in the endocannabinoid system. I guess people attribute then the Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

1:27:40BubblemanWe assume either positive or negative because it's not naturally occurring. It's created through a process. We don't know how it reacts in our bodies, either good or bad. And so he was basically saying that not all terpenes are benign. And then he went on to say, terps are the largest class of naturally according chemical compounds in nature with over 22,000 so far identified.

1:28:06SpeakerRight. Holy shit. Again, when you mix microbes into that, Mark, the microbes start doing this dance on the molecules too, so now that creates a whole other set of molecules. It's endless. It really is. That, again, should inspire people to be creative in this field because there's all different kinds of, you could almost think about a way that you can take a bug and actually use it to put a pressure on a grow or a plant.

1:28:38SpeakerTo produce a particular cannabinoid ratio or particular terpene profile, again, because it's under a biological pressure or some type of pressure that's not a chemical, but it's just like, I don't know. I mean, there's just different ways you can look at how you can tweak the pathways that make these molecules in the plant by inducing certain stresses within the plant.

1:29:01BubblemanAnd on a side note, we are 48 people away from 1,000 viewers. I think we're going to hit it today. We're going to hit it today, people.

1:29:09SpeakerGet your Twitter accounts ready. We better come up with something useful to say.

1:29:14BubblemanOh, man, I'm just waiting, you know. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. This will be fine.

1:29:22SpeakerMark, one last note to your point on basically everybody in the industry, and I know you always have a frustration when you see it, that someone takes that data, oh, it was done under vacuum, they don't know, and then everyone starts quoting it. Well, it gets worse when, let's say, all the extract artists will follow a chart that tells them the boiling point of THC under vacuum, when they've really just made a mathematical estimate of where it should be, they've never actually even tried short-pat distillation and recorded anything, and We all lived off a chart that told us this was impossible, this was possible, and we got it from the forums and we were bred on it, and I wouldn't be able to do what I do with Limonene if I believed that chart, and that chart is another spawn of Mishulam's data just being taken as godly fact because it came from science, and then they miss the fine details that make the context of the experiment.

1:30:21SpeakerWell, I tell you what, I've used that nomograph on a lot of different compounds, and it's pretty right on the money, man, and you can really get a really good estimate just by looking at that. But I tell you, man, it really depends on, again, when you do any kind of distillation of a mixture, like if you're looking at, you know, if you're just looking at extract, even if it's enriched in THC, I mean, The mixture's boiling point and the physical properties of that are going to change as you distill anything from there.

1:30:54SpeakerAnd what you're left behind is going to just be different chemical contents, going to have different vapor pressures. And usually what you see in these distillations is that the temperature stabilizes usually while you're collecting your main component. But at the front end and at the low end, you could get a lot of variation. And I would tend to think, again, that if you're doing Distillation of essential oils.

1:31:19SpeakerAs soon as you heat these oils up, as you know, Horatio, you can't keep the oil from reacting with each other. It starts doing chemistry. I guess, again, the notion is that you want to keep the lowest possible temperature, just like you would in any extraction process.

1:31:40SpeakerJeff, remember when the pentane thing came out and people were like, well, wait a minute. Pentane should remove itself at room temperature. There's no need to vacuum. And I'm like, it's bonded. Now it becomes a new temperature based on that bond. And you know jack shit about that chemical bond. So you have to raise the temperature to find out under vacuum and report the degree of vacuum you achieve that under.

1:32:02SpeakerEveryone just runs out and goes, I'll just do it to 94. And I'm like, how come no one's sharing under how much vacuum? The branched isomers are higher boiling. I think the branched isomers, one of them is a neurotoxin. I think it's been related to things that, again, when injected to a rat at some level, forms tumors. I think the point is that, again, when you're looking at any of those things like pentane, there's, I think, what, maybe about four or five different isomers.

1:32:33SpeakerAll the different isomers are going to have different boiling points. Depending on What the refinery farted out that week, you might have one that's rich in cyclopentane or you might have the neopentane or the other isomers that are going to have a different boiling point, different residuals and different issues because all those molecules are different. They're not pure.

1:32:59SpeakerYeah, I think really what you were talking about there is, you know, there's a temperature that everybody hit 94. They say, hey, you know, you hit 94 under vacuum, you don't have the pentane issue anymore because people were trying to purge at lower temperatures. It depends what your vacuum is. You can't universally say if your vacuum doesn't suck. Well, there's two things there, right? There's the boiling point of the consistency you're trying to get out, the pentane, right?

1:33:26SpeakerAnd then there's the viscosity of the hash oil. And so until you reach that 94 degrees, the viscosity is not correct for the boiling point of that constituent to even be effective because like you were saying, Horatio, it's locked into the slab. You can't get it out no matter how deep you go below 94 degrees. Right. So that's really... That's called entrainment and that happens with very thick viscous films like, you know, clear or cannabis resin.

1:34:00SpeakerI mean, Certainly what you do is, yeah, that's one of the magics of doing thin film distillation is that you try to get it almost down to a molecular film to get it as thin as it possibly can so there's really no voids within that amorphous thing to basically trap the solvent. And to get that down to the thinnest layer possible is always, you know, what you want to go for, right?

1:34:31SpeakerBecause there's no place for solvent molecules to hide. Well, Jeff, to back that up, because, Mark, Mishulam never says what his precursor truly is, and if you distill something that is full of... Oh, yes, he does. No, but does he say, okay, well, maybe that's what we don't read, because I'm like, look, there's so many things I could put in my flask. Raw, de-waxed, de-waxed twice, with pesticides, without pesticides.

1:35:00SpeakerThe other things that can show up when you hit your magic number, like Jeff, if your shit is a trim run full of lipids and you try to hit 94 and someone has a nug run de-waxed, Those are two different bonds because there's way more crap in the extract. Even when you say a perfect temperature or viscosity, I'm like, depends what your oil is made out of because if your extraction is full of shit, the viscosity at 94 is not the same all over again.

1:35:28SpeakerEspecially with lipids, Horatio. Lipids are notorious for that. Lipids, fats, and waxes, that's what they do. They trap shit. Yeah, absolutely.

1:35:39BubblemanLipids, fats, and waxes. Oh, my.

1:35:44SpeakerThey trapped you. I think the 94 was just that temperature where you're going to pretty much get it out no matter what you've got as a lipid fraction in there. Because lipids, they all melt as well. They've all got their melting points. If you have a much better vacuum, you may not need to heat up that much. I don't know. It depends really. I mean, if you're pulling like, so Mishulam pulled .05 millimeters of mercury, or what's called .05 torr.

1:36:17SpeakerThat's a typical high vacuum setup in an organic chemistry lab that's usually a vacuum pump that's hooked up to two cold fingers and then has a manifold that then Thank you for joining us.

1:36:51SpeakerHe says that basically he took hashish and then he fractionated it on a column, so that's silica gel chromatography, but then I think he further purified it by making a urethane derivative by reacting it with a diphenyl or dinitrophenyl isocyanate, and that made a urea derivative, which if you look at the thing that I've always posted on Facebook, He hydrolyzes and then he takes that material and does the short path distillation on.

1:37:25SpeakerSo that is the route from Hashish to how he isolated THC that he reported in the paper. So he does say how he makes it. But do you see how like what he did before he actually pretty much ran the reaction that creates the number? Nobody's pre-doing that. When they go in and they go, yeah, I'll just set it to that boiling point and, you know, I threw in some oil, it's clean, it was made with XYZ.

1:37:54SpeakerIt's very off, but he did a lot of processes to make sure that he started with something that was good to go. Oh yeah, he was like, what, three steps separated from hash, from what he, stuff from his starting materials, so yeah, he had done purifications along the way, and the reason why he made that urethane derivative is because He made the 3,5-dinitrophenylurea. Those urethanes are very highly crystalline.

1:38:25SpeakerHe reported the melting point of that. That's a very common practice. In those days of organic chemistry to make that derivative and report that melting point just as a characterization phenomenon. So if anybody else wanted to think that they had THC, they would also make that derivative and see if the melting point was the same. And if the melting point was the same as the derivative, it was just a way that scientists used to To characterize materials, and so he took that derivative, hydrolyzed it with base, and then, yeah, short path distilled it, and that's the numbers that he got, which was, yeah, 155 to 157 at .05 millimeters of mercury.

1:39:12SpeakerSo just to tie this up again, you know, High Times published an article about six months ago, and again, I assumed that they had got it right, but when they didn't get it right, I was like, man, the world needs to know this is not the right boiling point of THC. It's completely different. And I kind of broke it down into things, but it was really great for the Hash Church Facebook page to actually be the identifying source of the nomograph.

1:39:42SpeakerAnd again, when you draw the line, I'll repost the picture up there. When you draw the line, it goes right through 420 centigrade. No happy accidents. The boiling point of THC is 420 centigrade. That's all. I'm so curious this morning. I wanted just to get one last question before even I welcome Todd and Darren into the room. That precursor that's crystalline right before he turns it into urea, is that safe for smoking?

1:40:19SpeakerNo, probably not. I mean, no, I wouldn't say so. But you know what? I mean, because it's crystalline and it's highly crystalline, it's a way that you could essentially purify the material. So you could purify it by reacting it with this 3,5-dinitrophenyl isocyanate, crash out that highly crystalline compound, and then do the hydrolysis and then And then poop extraction. But, you know, why not just do the extraction on the hash yeast to begin with?

1:40:50SpeakerSo, I mean, it's taking some unnecessary steps, but it's an interesting concept. Okay, no, because I get to my THCA by a different method, and people assume that I would follow that route, and I'm like, I don't show crystals in that form, so why would you assume that I use those compounds? I don't think I'm getting the same medical results as people who, I don't know all the methods, so when people say, oh, THCA does this, I'm like...

1:41:19SpeakerIf you smoke that precursor, then no, your THCA does not do what I do, and maybe I don't want that form of purity, because it goes too far, and then I lose whatever it is I'm experiencing.

1:41:33BubblemanWell, I will take this time to welcome D420K and Todd McCormick into the room, and of course the 957 live viewers that are watching right now, we're going to get up to 1,000, so stay tuned. We've got some more great, great information coming.

1:41:53SpeakerAre we ready for a bong rep yet?

1:41:57BubblemanWe've been ready all morning. Are you kidding me?

1:42:00SpeakerWell, let's do it. Oh, yeah. Let's do it. Where you been, D? I've been cruising. I got a new piece, a little heady piece last night from Corey Glass. A little pomegranate?

1:42:18Etienne FontanThat's a sexy piece, bud.

1:42:20SpeakerYeah, I'm pretty happy with it, man.

1:42:24BubblemanIt's sexy. Ah, well let's break it in here on Hash Church. I'm just going to mute myself so you don't hear my torch. Oh, thank you. Now there's a guy that pays attention. Simple little things like that, fellas, goes a long way.

1:42:51SpeakerAll right, all right, all right. Who's got the hash blues?

1:42:57BubblemanThe D-nails are so quiet. Nobody.

1:43:03SpeakerI'm turning my D-nail on right now, too. That's what I had to do. I've done it a few times and just grabbed it and put it in. It's like, oh, it's cold. I just need a solar-powered D-nail so I won't feel bad about leaving it on 24-7.

1:43:22BubblemanI came down today and mine was on all day.

1:43:25SpeakerOh yeah. I've done that a few times. I left mine on for months I think when I first got it.

1:43:36BubblemanYum.

1:43:38SpeakerSo we might have some special guests here if they stop talking to each other and smoking shit. Cool. We need special guests. We'll get more people. We'll go shoot for 2,000. I'm down.

1:43:52BubblemanHey, we've never even broken a thousand, so let's just break that thousand for starters.

1:43:58SpeakerBe great. Hey, I posted that picture of the nomograph on the Facebook page for Hash Church, so if anyone's interested, just go to the Facebook page for Hash Church and you'll see it. Again, I'm not making this up. This is a real deal. That's awesome. It just happens to be 420. Okay.

1:44:18BubblemanJust happens to be 420. Hey, I would like to see the people in chat room, 954 viewers, to type out where they are watching Hash Church from. And with a number next to them, whether they are one person, or two, or three, or however many there are. So if you're with four people in Maine, you'd write Maine 4. Let me see.

1:44:45BubblemanSan Diego 619. Yeah.

1:44:48SpeakerWhat the heck?

1:44:49BubblemanWhat? Hey, lots of singles. Well, there's four. Holy, that's a lot of different places. Glasgow.

1:45:01SpeakerWow, that's pretty incredible the way it's going by, hey? Portland, Maine, it's incredible indeed. Berlin. That was actually really funny, actually. Tacoma, one billion. I'm feeling it.

1:45:16BubblemanQuebecois. Hey, go to Vegas. Kentucky. Germany.

1:45:22SpeakerDude, I love it. Athens, Greece. Oh, yeah.

1:45:27BubblemanOswego.

1:45:28SpeakerWhat is Hamsterdam?

1:45:31BubblemanKelowna, BC.

1:45:32SpeakerIt's like Amsterdam with a lot of hamsters?

1:45:34BubblemanHey, Ireland. You've never been to Hamsterdam? Hamsters and gerbils.

1:45:43SpeakerHamsters and gerbils. Hamsters and gerbils.

1:45:49SpeakerOkay. It's too nice. I love it.

1:45:55BubblemanThat movie is so fast. I can honestly say I've never seen a cat move that fast.

1:46:00Etienne FontanHey, shout out to the Alaska people. Right on. 1,069 people watching.

1:46:07BubblemanWhat? Wow. No, 9.62 we got. You're freaking me out. I just mean... It's 10.67.

1:46:13Etienne FontanI just went down to that. I think 1067 watching now.

1:46:21SpeakerMine says 1051.

1:46:24BubblemanWow, mine says 966. That's amazing. Right on, guys. We broke 1,000. Let's have a bomb rip. Bomb rip, mother lovers. Let's do it. When I was peeling this hash out, my last rip, It sounded like grinding, breaking glass as it was coming out of the jar.

1:47:04BubblemanOh yeah, there we go. I just saw mine for the first time. 1,006 viewers.

1:47:08Etienne FontanThat's great. Hey, Todd, get this special guest in here.

1:47:13BubblemanYou think? He's on it. He's like, alright, we hit 1,000. It's like those cheesy Instagram accounts where the girl's like hot and she's like, I'll post nudes at 1,000 followers.

1:47:25BubblemanYeah, it's not really like that at all.

1:47:28Etienne FontanYou mean you're not going to show us nipple bubble, man?

1:47:33BubblemanWell, I can show you some hash. There's my hash nipple.

1:47:41Etienne FontanPerfect. There we are. Okay. What strain is that nipple?

1:47:51BubblemanWhat's that?

1:47:52Etienne FontanWhat strain is that nipple?

1:47:54BubblemanThis is the purple candy again with the Master Scout.

1:48:01Etienne FontanThat is your go-to today.

1:48:03BubblemanIt's the one I've been pulling out of. I've got all these other rosins and some other bubble hashes as well. But yeah, it's definitely... I'll probably be smoking some of this rosin here in the near future. This is really nice.

1:48:18BubblemanQuite a good little quality on that.

1:48:22Etienne FontanClarity on that.

1:48:24BubblemanYeah, nice clarity, nice quality. It's hash rosin, so it always seems to come out pretty darn stable when you use real nice, properly dried hash. I seem to get a real nice stable end product that just stays looking like a shatter for as long as I have it. I mean this piece I've had probably for two or three weeks, maybe even a month now and it's also just very stable.

1:48:50SpeakerSo Marcus, what do you consider properly dried hash? So if it's not properly dried, it wouldn't look as nice?

1:48:59BubblemanWell, to me, drying hash is a two-part series. Imagine if you were to, say, have a bowl of grapes and you got those grapes all wet. With your naked eye, you would be able to see moisture droplets on the outside of the grapes. And this is what most people think is drying hash, where you can get all that moisture from the outside of the grape to be gone.

1:49:20BubblemanBut because people have introduced fresh frozen, which is a very wax membrane, a very full wax membrane, when you photograph resin that's been dried properly, like the majority of hash producing countries in the world have always dried and cured the bud, which is what they're really doing is they're drying the resin because curing that resin and drying that resin on the plant... It's the easiest place you'll ever find.

1:49:46BubblemanIt's like they have their own little stands. Each little head has its own stand and it can just dry right there. But once you take them off and put them together, they don't dry the same way. So a lot of the countries that have produced hash for decades, they understand this and they cure out that head so it shrinks a little bit. It creates ridges and it's almost like anyone that dries it knows that this is absolutely necessary.

1:50:14Bubbleman100% necessary for dry sifting. And over the years, I really came to the conclusion that it's pretty important for wet washing as well. I would never say that people shouldn't make fresh frozen. That's an opinion that lies on the end user. But for me, I like the idea of curing out my herb properly, which means drying it, which means getting the moisture on the outside of the wax membrane to be dry and gone, but then taking it a step further and actually Thank you so much for joining us.

1:51:05BubblemanThank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me.

1:51:33SpeakerThank you so much for joining us today. We'll be right back.

1:52:01SpeakerNow bacteria starts chewing on the molecules, which changes. Again, it's going to start oxidizing the ring and converting the THC to metabolites that are then going to go on to CBN. It's basically going to start changing medicine in the plant. So again, water content, to me, what you're saying, Mark, might really play a very important role in this microbial contamination process.

1:52:30BubblemanI'm convinced of it and I've always been very important. You know, people always... Mocked me hash. Well, I'm not going to show people a $10,000 freeze dryer back in the day and say, if you don't have this, then your fucking microbials cannot be tested. But I was definitely like, let's get the moisture out as much of it as possible, and that's why I always use the desiccant.

1:52:52BubblemanI always told people to put it on like a thick cardboard, spread thin, so that moisture can be pulled out of the hash, and you can get the hash off the cardboard without it sticking. So this was something that for years people were like, oh, I don't need to do that. And they would have wet hash. I'd just seen it time and time again. Even from well-known hash makers that claimed they didn't need to do it, I would smoke there.

1:53:15BubblemanI actually squeezed moisture out of a well-known hash maker's hash that I was gifted in Amsterdam. Like, literally held it between my fingers and saw a droplet of water come up. That's not just moist. That's like sopping wet. And...

1:53:32SpeakerYeah, I would rather have... That's just going to favor bacterial infection because, again, bacteria is all around us. Bacteria is on our hands. Even you wash your hands several times a day, you still put your hands down on innate surfaces that can be like... You don't know. There could have just been a three-year-old kid who just didn't wipe his ass, and he put his hand all over the railing that you're just grabbing because you're walking down a railing at a supermarket or a store or something.

1:54:00SpeakerYou never know. We live in a microbial world, and the best thing you can do is before handling your hash or before handling your plants is wash your hands. If you're going to be handling hash really for immune-compromised patients, you should really be using sterile gloves and operating in a germ-free environment as you possibly can operate. Dr. When you say this, it doesn't feel like Outdoor upon us, it's funny because there's a new magazine out, and I'm not promoting it, but I'm pointing this out.

1:54:39SpeakerIt's a magazine by cannabis. They do greenhouses. So they got great advertisement of this beautiful greenhouse. You know, birds could not shit on your food in here. But they have this cover story of a guy off the grid growing outside. And I mean, it's cool and all, but really, is a bunch of pot that birds can shit on and caterpillars can poop on, is that really medicine?

1:55:01SpeakerLike, is this really what we would expect if we were buying food and brownies and bread and, I don't know, I just don't know. I really think that... We live in a microbial world, Todd. And I don't disagree, but do you want Do you want a tomato that a bird shit on? I mean, do you want a bud that a bird pooped on, you know, that to go into what you eat or what you smoke?

1:55:25SpeakerIf you wash off your tomato that's got bird poop on it, it's totally fine. Just wash it. Right, but how many people wash off buds because it washes off your feet? Right, I know it's a different thing.

1:55:36BubblemanI wash all my buds.

1:55:43BubblemanI'm just saying. Yeah. I wash them in cold water with ice.

1:55:49SpeakerWith a bag, right?

1:55:51BubblemanI usually eat.

1:55:51SpeakerYeah, I mean, Todd, I think I asked you this once before. I mean, you guys have never observed fouling, microbial fouling of the bags themselves, and that's interesting because you could get microbes and bacteria on the hash that you make from the bags, but for some reason the residue that's left behind on the bag doesn't foul. That's interesting. Who said that? I think Todd had said that before.

1:56:17SpeakerI think I had asked him.

1:56:18BubblemanNo way, dude. If you don't clean your bags and you leave resin to build up anywhere in there, you will for sure have a foulage. You will for sure fail microbials. Okay, okay. I guarantee you it's where tons of failage is happening from.

1:56:32SpeakerOkay. I'm clean equipment.

1:56:35BubblemanI'm obsessive about how I clean my bags. I always have them. One of the things I've said to people is you need to clean it. Immediately after pulling the hash out, you can't let it sit for like four seconds. It needs to be flipped inside out and ready. You take that hash off and it's like cold water ice bath cleaning the bag. If you let that resin build up, and it's very easy to see with a microscope how much resin can stay in that screen, you're sure going to have problems.

1:57:04SpeakerSo could I ask a question? Is there a sterilization procedure that you use to make sure that the bags are sterile between runs? And they're not contaminated?

1:57:14BubblemanAside from really cleaning them, that is the sterilization method. Now, for going up to the next level, for going up to commercial and medical, like I don't, you know, particularly right now, it's just now that we're starting to drop this brand. So what I'm suggesting to people that are working on a larger level is that you need to look at commercial units, which are stainless steel. They won't be plastic and they won't be made of mesh.

1:57:41BubblemanThey'll be made out of stainless steel. And then stainless steel can be cleaned through steam or it can be cleaned through chemical cleaning if that's how you feel you need to do it. But there are ways to clean stainless steel and get it right back on point so the microbials won't be failing. I see it as a stainless steel unit. That's what we're designing right now, me and a couple of new partners.

1:58:05BubblemanWe haven't even named the company yet, but we have a stainless steel unit that we're It's been like some months that we've been working on it, getting this prototype together, and it's almost done. We've just got the mixer part that needs to come, and it's a beautiful stainless steel unit with a really beautiful cold sleeve that goes around the entire unit to maintain temperature. It's got a mixer that comes in through the top head and sits into the middle of the unit, and I'm excited about it.

1:58:33BubblemanThe screens are the part that's going to be the exciting part as well, because how... How do you stack a stainless steel screen when you're not going to be in a bag?

1:58:46BubblemanSo, you'll see. You'll all see. The pictures and the videos will be available in the next, what I think, six months. Hopefully, me and the West Coast Concentrate boys get to play around with this machine and even sooner than that, like in the next 20 to 30 days, I'm hoping on doing a little prototype playing. So, yeah, I don't think that... That the bags and the plastic machines are going to be the most ideal way to produce medicine in that higher grade nutraceutical or pharmaceutical level.

1:59:21BubblemanI just don't think that they'll ever be able to stand up to the same rigorous testing, that failures will be imminent.

1:59:29SpeakerSo in the food industry right now, when they use stainless steel to process like biologicals and food and stuff that's meant for human consumption, I mean, typically what they use is bleach or some type of disinfectant process. But some of these things can be quite, quite corrosive, like chlorine dioxide can be quite corrosive to some surfaces. And really, you know, stainless steel, you've got to remember that...

1:59:55SpeakerEverything corrodes. It's all a matter of rate. Even stainless steel will eventually start pitting with treatments with bleach over and over and over again. I wouldn't personally use bleach. Dr. I'm just saying very, very dilute bleach, Mark. This is what's used in the food industry for sterilization of food handling equipment. And I'm just sort of drawing the analogy to that. But the only other thing I was going to say is that, like, with the bubble bags, actually, if you think about it, it's one of the things where you might actually be able to use solvent to actually, because, again, the bubble bag material is resistant to the solvent.

2:00:39SpeakerYou could actually use solvent to actually clean the bags in between and really have a pristine bag each time you go around the loop. And not just worry about, you know, stuff that you're going to get out with water, but just why not use a solvent?

2:00:53BubblemanYeah. I like to stay away from the solvents. I'll definitely come up with a method that's more along the lines of like steam cleaning because, you know, we know that steam, which is how restaurants clean food, clean plates and dishes that food is served on, we know that steam can clean those microbials 100%. We don't need to be breaking down stainless steel with, and obviously water's going to still break it down as well.

2:01:18BubblemanThese are all different things that are going to come across once we start doing things on a commercial level. You can't just come up with these things in your head and think that you're going to know how they work out. You have to do the work.

2:01:29SpeakerWell, I was thinking something more like alcohol, and if there was any like residual... Alcohol can cause pitting on stainless steel as well.

2:01:36BubblemanIt was just mentioned by Jordan Clark in the chat, so... There's definitely going to be dialogue and conversation open for this very concept. What the best way will be, the industry will decide for certain by the industry leaders coming up with those methods and then the rest of everyone else, as per usual, copying.

2:01:58SpeakerMark, I've had a steam cleaner for mold and mildew for years. Like, they run at about 1800 watts, the little hand cleaning units. They're easily able to sterilize and that, you basically use distilled water. So you try to go as neutral as possible and you are steam distilling off everything you're hitting. So when it comes to round by round management with the lowest amount of degradation, it would be distilled water steam.

2:02:25SpeakerThe units are about $2,000 and I think it's just another mandatory piece. I used them to clean my kitchen when I wanted to jar blueberry jam in a commercial kitchen without using chemicals. It had nothing to do with something as lucrative as keeping hash safe. So it's out there, it's just alternatives to chemicals are not usually given the same attention. Yeah, I was thinking just in terms of cleaning the Cleaning the handling materials free from any buildup of resin.

2:02:56SpeakerSteam isn't going to touch that resin. I'm just thinking in terms of any residual plant oil that could be left behind, which is where the bacteria and biofilm, because again, what biofilm is, is that even if you kill the outer layer of bacteria, then the carcasses of the ones who came before them become the biofilm that new bio bugs can start to Thank you for watching.

2:03:36SpeakerTo me, it's like alcohol would be a great solution. I don't mean using a solvent like butane. I mean using a disinfectant like alcohol where you're not only killing the bacteria, but you're also dissolving any residual plant shit that's in your bubble bag or on your stainless steel equipment to basically create a place to harbor new bacteria that can live in the nooks and crannies of

2:04:06BubblemanSomeone's saying my sound is off right now. Are people hearing me or is, what's going on? I want to make sure that I can hear you. Okay, cool. It's probably just someone that's having their own problem. Yeah, no problem. Bong rep. Bong rep. Always a bong rep. I'll second that motion.

2:04:34BubblemanPeople are asking me if I'm patenting all these things. I'm like, no, we don't do the patenting thing. I have no problem leasing a patent from someone if my business is taking me down a road that their patent is blockading and I require their patent. Of course I'll lease a patent. Someone's done the work. I'm not shitting on people that do patents. I respect it as a methodology of producing monetary gain or control over something or even just the ability to not be controlled.

2:04:59BubblemanHowever, I am not a patent guy myself. I'm not trying to patent the ideas that I am avidly telling and giving away here on Hash Church. If you tell people things, the next guy is going to think about something even better that you didn't think about. They'll be like, oh, I heard what you said on Hash Church. This is why we open dialogue. It'll happen like that too.

2:05:19BubblemanSomeone will text me or email me and say, hey, I heard what you said and I wanted to let you know this. And because of the way I shared it, it'll come back to me full circle like that where someone, rather than feel like they should hold on to this piece of information that could potentially help me, It's nice not to hold on to that piece of information.

2:05:37BubblemanIt's like holding on to that cut that you're not supposed to share.

2:05:41SpeakerA patent is there to protect the commercial rights to an invention. And I can tell you, I got a couple of them. And there's nothing like that moment of invention, Mark, when you're trying something and there's a eureka moment where... I'm telling you, man, you'll never forget it. And you'll know when it happens that, man, I just did something for the first time and it's totally fucking cool and I could patent it.

2:06:08SpeakerSo, I mean, I think a lot of people think that they want to make a lot of money and they need to patent something that's... Well... It has to be something that isn't obvious. Yeah, but can I interject a minute? I think what Mark is saying, Mark, is that that's totally different. If you're inventing something, that's one thing, but a lot of people are taking... Technologies that pre-exist for food, for processing, for perfume, terpene extraction.

2:06:34SpeakerThey're going, I own that. That's mine. And it's fucked up because it's like we're all coming to the same conclusions. We're all following down the same path. Winterization was for mayonnaise and for other things. It wasn't for making hash. But we all use the terminology now. And I'm sure there's someone out there like, I'm going to patent winterization for weed. And that's where I think it's a little fucked up.

2:06:56SpeakerA patent is only as good as it'll hold up in an infringement case against it, and none of those patents will ever hold up because there's a truckload of prior art that could use to be invalidating those patents.

2:07:10BubblemanWell, you know what, I'll tell you one thing about prior art, because I went through a patent that involved prior art that existed, but the prior art was deemed that it didn't hold up. So no matter how much prior art there is, trust me on this when I say going through a patent case, It's not as easy as you think. A lot of people say that Reinhardt's water extraction patent wouldn't hold up, but it held up as strong as steel in court for seven plus years before I decided to...

2:07:38SpeakerI would say 50% of my patents were all rejected. I was told that it's obvious. Otis is back on the inventor.

2:07:50SpeakerBut you have to basically distinguish your invention from the prior art.

2:07:54BubblemanI know how it works better than most because, like I said, I spent eight years in a patent litigation case. So I'm very, very intimate with how patent law works, how patents work, and how, terrifyingly enough, if it gets far enough, in the end it can be decided by a judge. A single judge can decide your patent case. So it's definitely freaky. I think it's important that the right people patent things and, you know, for the right reasons so that we are not kept from doing the work but that the people who make those patents don't turn around and in turn start keeping people from allowing, you know, hey, if you've made a patent, great, just lease it out at a reasonable fee and then everyone can still play.

2:08:39BubblemanNo one's being controlled and it's not like you can't play. You just lease the patent. This is how industry works. You don't think Apple is leasing 150 fucking patents from Samsung and vice versa. They lease patents from one another.

2:08:53SpeakerThat's how it works. License is the correct word. They license the patent. License technology. That's absolutely right. All the pharmaceutical companies do it. All the multinational food companies do it. All the restaurants do it. They cross licensees each other. I'm doing it. Yeah, and to tell you the truth, Mark, it actually creates a new opportunity in cannabis. Again, when you're growing something new and you think you have something new, you don't necessarily need to patent it.

2:09:24SpeakerThe other kind of intellectual property, like I've explained to Horatio, is something called a trade secret. A trade secret is something like the secret formula of Coca-Cola, which is not in a patent. The six ingredients are on the side of the Can of Coke. Everyone sees the six ingredients, but the process used to make Coca-Cola from those six ingredients is a magic special trade secret process that's locked up in some doubly vaulted thing in some basement in some high rise in Atlanta, Georgia with two big badass motherfuckers outside the door.

2:10:02SpeakerI'm telling you, dude.

2:10:10SpeakerSo Horatio is again a perfect example of someone here on the panel who basically uses the trade secret type of intellectual property and so if you have your own strain or your own process or your own, you just basically create your brand based on that trade secret and that becomes your intellectual property.

2:10:35SpeakerThat is absolutely right. But it's much more complicated to actually navigate in the normal world where everyone thinks in patents and also thinks about attacking whatever license you're offering. As soon as they have it, it will be the game of can you get me to pay the actual fee over time. And does the system basically protect people whose trade secrets have been violated as well as they would a patent holder?

2:11:04BubblemanWell, I sure am happy to have paid. I'm happy that it worked out the way it did. I'm happy to license Reinhardt's patent. There's no doubt about that the first water hash bags, the isolator bags, were a 100% copy of Reinhardt's machine. Eldon came up with it, Mark Rose manufactured and named them, and he is now the manufacturer for bubble bags. So there's no escaping that bubble bags...

2:11:26Bubbleman100% came out of that birth of the ice cold extractor machine to the isolator to the bubble bags and that's why for me, you know, being called a rip off artist or a thief by many of my competitors over the years, it felt great vindication to pay off the licensing fee for my entire history and into the future knowing that none of them did.

2:11:49SpeakerRight, I mean that's the story book case of how patents protect the inventor and On his intellectual, his or her intellectual property.

2:11:59BubblemanHe invented this machine. Now don't get me wrong. Kay from Tricom Technologies knew about Waterhash in the 90s. Skunkman Sam knew about it in the 80s. Neville knew about it in the 80s and an unknown American that told Neville could have known about it pre the 80s. I have no idea. But the history of people knowing goes back further. The unfortunate concept of the prior art where it really hit a snag was that the prior art So it was in an advertisement in a 1988 issue of High Times Magazine called Sadhu Sam's Water Extraction Process, but the process wasn't published.

2:12:37BubblemanIt was a secret that you had to order through the mail. So it created this whole like, well, people could still publicly acquire the knowledge, but it wasn't really published publicly.

2:12:50SpeakerRight, it results as a disclosure, but it's not fully disclosing the method or the process by which they did it.

2:13:00BubblemanThese other companies were happy to just... The Wild Wild West and be shooting guns into the air. I kind of felt like I needed to do something to make myself feel right about all this and that how could it happen that this one gentleman who patented it and who brought it to light and who was the reason why it got copied into these bags, how could I not sort of show, you know, sort of, you know, pay my proper dues to that man and I feel very good that I did, I got to say.

2:13:31BubblemanGo ahead, Todd.

2:13:35SpeakerI didn't mean to interrupt, actually. When you were saying that, I actually kind of lost track, actually, of what you were saying. I wasn't trying to interrupt you, actually. I was trying to get from Aaron and Rob to come join us. You know, I think it's things like this. I wanted to say that people made a comment that in the 60s people were making water hash, and I highly doubt it.

2:13:55SpeakerYou know, a lot of these technologies, both water and solvent, are relatively new to the cannabis industry. I mean, we're learning as we go.

2:14:05BubblemanThey knew about it in the 80s, so it's not impossible that the unknown American may have known about it in the 70s, is all that I said. And welcome, Chimera. There's been a thousand people waiting for you and Rob. No pressure. No pressure. What is a thousand people like? That's like a small venue, isn't it? That's pretty good. Oh, hi. Oh, well, hello there. We've all been blowing smoke towards the Vatican for approximately two hours and 14 minutes with no Bubba Rob to be seen.

2:14:35BubblemanNo pressure. Welcome, gentlemen. Good to have you here. And back to you, Todd. I think I cut you off. I'm sorry.

2:14:44SpeakerYou didn't cut me off. You know, look, I was just saying that a lot of this technology is fairly new. I mean, especially when you're getting into water and solvents, and we're learning. We're still learning so much. The handling, the processing, cleanliness in between runs. I mean, this is still such... The only thing I did differently

2:15:28BubblemanWas I posted a link on my Instagram account for the first time yesterday about Hash Church. So it seemed to bump us up that extra 300 people and it's fucking awesome that there's this many people that are really interested in learning as much about cannabis as they possibly can.

2:15:50SpeakerSo they're asking about some Guardian thing. This has kind of inspired me to want to start publishing a digital magazine and start putting quality information out. And anyone listening and stuff, I would urge you to go, you know, to my website, hit me up. I'm looking for, you know, articles, photos that are really things that are going to be timeless. You know, we can share with each other, we can show each other examples of really good flowers, really good hash.

2:16:16SpeakerAnd I mean, not just fill, you know, like, And since, I mean, I love high times, but I'm so sick of the same stuff, and I mean, I think that instead of just trying to fill up pages, we should really be trying to preserve the history and move these stories through so that more and more people can benefit them further in the future.

2:16:37BubblemanWell, here's one that people have been asking about all day, and I've kind of been waiting for more people to come in before I asked it. It is the Ivermectin-Mestin Guardian Scandal. So people are asking about Guardian and the scandal that ensues. They're asking Mr. Mark Scaldone or anyone else that wants to comment.

2:16:57SpeakerAre we talking about the drug trial that just happened? No, this is the fact that they're finding ivermectin in Guardian, which is an insect control product that's not supposed to be including that active ingredient, which is a known insecticide. And yeah, okay, so I could comment a little bit on this. Again, these insecticides are actually natural products. They're systemic and highly fat-soluble, so they're going to be in any concentrate if they're sprayed, foliar, you know, during bud, during flowering, because I don't think These things really are metabolized in the plant.

2:17:40SpeakerAgain, it's a systemic insecticide, so it's delivered all throughout the plant from what I understand. It's not like this thing, microbutanil, that when it thermally degrades is going to give hydrogen cyanide. When this stuff thermally degrades, when I look at those molecules as an organic chemist, they're just going to turn the They're just basically a disaccharide with a macrolide on it. That's basically on the nail at a nail temperature.

2:18:10SpeakerIt's just going to turn to goo and tar. So it's something that you definitely don't want in your hash. You don't want it certainly at a certain level. But it has supposedly low mammalian toxicity, although there's some debate in the literature about that. But it's not supposed to be included in Guardian from what I understand that this was either an unintentional or intentional contamination issue. But this is something that they found.

2:18:40SpeakerAnd I had several people contact me yesterday from both Washington and Oregon about issues of this coming up. So I know it's an issue. And I think that, again, if you're putting this stuff on your plant in flour, it's a mistake because That compound ain't going nowhere but into your extract.

2:19:00BubblemanYeah, it concentrates, doesn't it?

2:19:03SpeakerYeah, it does. Mark, I don't think, again, when I look at the molecule itself, it's just going to turn to tar on the nail. It's not going to do anything bad. It's not going to release any Thank you for joining us today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking about today.

2:19:42SpeakerAnd they are systemic, and they typically are the kinds of things that, you know, are used on fruits and vegetables that are washed. And if you don't wash your cannabis, like most people don't, except Mark, Marcus, right? This stuff's going to be in your concentrator. It's going to be in your weed. It's not going to go anywhere. It's systemic. You can't wash it. Yeah, I think they're translaminar.

2:20:06SpeakerIt's actually abamectin and avid for people that know, a lot of people don't know the The chemical names, they know the brand names of these products. Josh Wurzer from, again, from SC Labs was doing some experimentation with this, and he told me that when they take the pure compound and they make up their standards for the injection into the GC for, you know, for Calibrate, that even leaving it on the bench for a short period of time, it starts to break down already.

2:20:35SpeakerSo, you know, Whether abamectin on the nail, what it does, you know, is not really the question. It's always when we're spraying crop protection chemicals on plants, it's really about the half-life of the products that you're putting on the plants, and do the plants break it down, or does oxygen break the chemical down into something else? So, you know, just simply looking for that one molecule isn't necessarily the issue.

2:21:00SpeakerYou have to look for all the metabolites, too. I think it photolytically degrades in the environment. I don't think it has a very long photo-half-life. I can look that up. I just seem to remember that from looking at the MSDS. But if you read the MSDS, it doesn't really say anything bad about its environment. I mean, it doesn't look like it's that bad of a chemical. I don't, you know, just Comparing it with things like DDT and phosphates and shit like that, you know, or mycobutanyl, which we know when you heat up it releases cyanide.

2:21:33BubblemanOr just compare it to like the things that they call pharmaceutical medications that are supposed to help you, you know, fix what ails you. I mean, some of that shit we were laughing earlier about how toxic and poisonous it is. This is like FDA approved.

2:21:51SpeakerWell, it's not approved for cannabis. Right, and I think that's really the issue here is that, you know, partly because the FDA or the EPA or the federal law in the States, you can't test these plants, these chemicals on cannabis. We don't really know this information, so people are speculating on what happens in the plant based on what happens in tobacco. Well, cultivation practices are different for tobacco than cannabis.

2:22:19BubblemanYeah. No, I just meant pharmaceutical. Did you get muted?

2:22:26BubblemanCan you say something, Cameron?

2:22:28SpeakerYeah, can you hear me now?

2:22:30BubblemanOkay, good. Yeah, I thought you got muted, but it wasn't showing that you were muted. Sorry.

2:22:36SpeakerBut yeah, the science, we still need to catch up. It comes back again to the science. We need to catch up and actually have somebody do research on what happens on these plants. Can you detect these compounds when you spray them at whatever concentration? And right now there's no regulation, so people are spraying whatever they want. Well, and the people who are on the registration for those active ingredients will not pay for the test because of Schedule 1.

2:23:02SpeakerAnd so we're back to Schedule 1 listing basically getting in the way of being able to advance what needs to be advanced here, which is basically the approval of these active ingredients to be used on something that's meant to be smoked or extracted. And again, that's going to require years of testing and safety testing before they even consider granting registrations. And that's regulated under FIFRA, which is an EPA regulatory thing.

2:23:36SpeakerIt's a mess. It really is. Are companies like Bayer, DuPont, Syngenta, Monsanto, do you trust Crop protection chemicals from that group of companies? Well, yeah, sure. I mean, why not? They are experts in the field. But I mean, I think the more important question is, do we really need to be spraying these chemicals on something that we're ingesting? And, you know, I keep going back to the Canadian MMPR, but it's just because it's a system that's set up where they've already addressed these issues.

2:24:07SpeakerAnd you can't, you're not allowed to spray Michael Butanil on cannabis plants under the MMPR. You're not allowed to spray Abamectin on. Right. Right, so it's kind of, you know, as much as we're having this discussion, I think the larger point remains is the topic of is will regulation fix production standards to the point where we don't necessarily need to be spraying chemicals on plants? Let's hope so.

2:24:36Etienne FontanIn the small term, we're seeing that in Berkeley with the city in October. Okay. Before it hit the actual shelves, we saw quite a few regular vendors fail on many different levels for, you know, different things that were in them. They were failed through the pesticides. There was failures through the herbicides, et cetera, et cetera. So, yes, it does, it makes that wider choice much more limited because Teaching others that there are standards that they have to fall in line with and to.

2:25:16Etienne FontanAnd as frustrated as the new regulations coming in California are from the producer, et cetera, standpoint, but what it will do for the end user is give a better understanding as well as it has opened up the agricultural department and all these other departments now to have to deal with cannabis where in the past They've been very hands off. So I think we're in a unique window of opportunity where you scientists can get in there and actually affect change and also show The studies that have to take place because we're dealing with a very unique, we're not dealing with a tobacco, we're dealing with a tobacco that can also be made into edibles, et cetera, et cetera.

2:26:01Etienne FontanSo it's a unique anomaly that cannabis is, and I hope we'll see some better standardization come out through, you know, 2018, 19, et cetera, as they get a better understanding on top of organic certification allowing People to even go that route finally. So it will be interesting to see what transpires. And that's what's so exciting about this time is that we need to isolate what research, because otherwise we are exactly as you said, Kymer, we're falling back on the Canadian standards because we have to go from the standards.

2:26:37Etienne FontanWe have to start from somewhere. But that just has constantly left us from the beginning. We have to reinvent the wheels. We had to go out and find the researchers and bring them to start THC testing. Out of that we found CBD. Now we're finding other things. So it's a constant evolving situation. And as I said, it's a very exciting time right now because of the research that still needs to be done so that we can even understand what we're putting in now because even the standards that are set forth by Berkeley I don't think are correct.

2:27:09Etienne FontanI think they are modifiable. But they're starting at a place. They're starting... Somewhere so that we can then move the discussion forward into a different era. But right now we're just stuck on the very basics. As it is, it's also frustrating. It's very frustrating when some of my favorite vendors that I like I can no longer get because they fail the standards and I can't put it out by the CD law.

2:27:37Etienne FontanBy that, people are conforming, but that's in the small. I mean, Berkeley is as rare as it gets. I'm not going to deny that. And it's being interesting to see what happens with the state regulation, but as well as other states coming online, like Oregon's law is better than it seems to be Washington or Colorado's to an extent. So what will California's be? What will Hawaii's be?

2:27:58Etienne FontanWhat will Nevada's be? There's approximately seven states coming online this year alone, approximately. Which is going to open up even more Pandora's Box because no state has a universal understanding, much less, unlike Canada, we don't have a government that is giving us standards to start with, so we have to create our own standard, which is frustrating, and especially to the individual farmer, and it's going to get even more so now with the new setup of the distributor system in between the two, but I think it's going to force change That's going to be better for the end consumer, but I think it's going to be quite a learning curve for the producer as well as the retailers.

2:28:45SpeakerThere's no doubt about it. Yeah, I think Berkeley did a great thing with that whole regulation. You know, if it's not passing, then there's a reason it's not passing. And, you know, as much as you say, well, they're your favorite suppliers or you like them, I mean... If they're failing for pesticides or they're failing for microbial contamination, you really don't want to be smoking their product, do you?

2:29:12Etienne FontanExactly. Friends is friends. Business is business. And that's where I have to say I'm sorry, you know, as much as I, you know, we have a friendship. Your product is not a pest mustard, and I'm sorry. The line is drawn in the sand. I didn't draw it. I have to follow it. And so that's where it becomes my responsibility to follow, to lead by example. And that's where, you know, it's safe.

2:29:33Etienne FontanOkay, sometimes. But liberating as well.

2:29:37BubblemanYeah. Oh, true. I was like, how do we have two Todd McCormicks, and I swear I was just about to boot the one, and it turned into Rob. I forget, Todd's running like a server over there or something with like multiple spots, computers, the whole nine yards.

2:29:57SpeakerIt's like a hostel, but different. He's running a hostel, a hash hostel, a hash halfway house.

2:30:07BubblemanWhoa, that was a crazy one. Thank you for quickly muting that. I do appreciate it. That was me. Excellent. Yeah, so that's all about the Guardian. Guardian, of course, for those who don't know, it was for mites, is it not? Wasn't it for no chemicals used, like mite deterrent? Is that what it was for?

2:30:33SpeakerNo one's going to answer. Yes, yes. Mites, bugs, all kinds of creepy crawlies.

2:30:38BubblemanCreepy crawlies. Look, our room is almost full now. We're building up nicely here.

2:30:42SpeakerYeah, it's avid. Avid is mostly for mites. That's what most people use it for. And it's crazy. I mean, this is one of the things in Canada also. I mean, they sell this shit under the counter at the grocery stores. Right, yeah, I've heard of that. So it's not like it's not available. If you want it, you can go and get it.

2:31:02BubblemanYeah, I don't trust a lot of the cannabis to extract from it. Horatio could go into it more for sure and throw them all under the bus, but just the shit that he's pulling out of the plants, it's just like, what the fuck? Is it from the nutrients? Is it from some spray? Is it from like, what are those like point .5 micron screens in the Buckner that you have, Horatio?

2:31:30SpeakerYeah, like daily use, I'll start like 1.5 micron, and then if something looks retarded, then you go down to .5, and if it keeps looking retarded, then you go down to 0.2, and you know, now you're just angry because you just want to solve what it is to prevent it, but you really have got, you've filtered everything to shit, trying to Thank you for watching.

2:32:17SpeakerPersistent and definitely liquid. And, like, I just, when I listen to what Mark said, I'm like, the boiling point of microbutanol turns into cyanide when you heat it up. Well, wait a minute, that boiling point's the same as my favorite fucking Terps. This is a disaster. Um... This could show up in terps, even if you tried to steam distill them. That is so systemically scary. That's the upside and the downside of chemical extraction.

2:32:43SpeakerYou could get the unknown, but you're definitely picking up the other unknown, like microbutanol, which, does that wash out in water as a benefit?

2:32:55SpeakerWell, I mean, it's typically like most of these azoles, like, I don't know if microbutanil is one, but I could talk about like propoconazole and tebuconazole are, you know, belong to the same class of conazole fungicides that microbutanil is. And it doesn't contain a cyano group, doesn't contain that That cyanide, which again, it's a benzylic cyanide, so it's set up to do a thermal elimination, and there's a variety of different products, so I don't know why that one is particularly used.

2:33:28SpeakerAnd again, if it comes in contact with humans, it has low toxicity, but when it's heated up, you've now just completely destroyed the molecule. Now you have the thermal decomposition products to deal with, which is what we're talking about.

2:33:47BubblemanThere it is. How are you doing today, Tony?

2:33:53SpeakerHey, how's it going? Sorry I was late start today. I suffer from severe migraines and I sometimes get them, very rarely, but it took me about three hours to be able to actually have a lamp on. But I'm all right. I'm doing a little better now.

2:34:18BubblemanYeah, that sucks, dude. I hate migraine headaches. Definitely, definitely no fun on those. It's been years since I had one.

2:34:27SpeakerYou didn't try snorting cayenne pepper, Tony?

2:34:30BubblemanIt worked.

2:34:33SpeakerIt worked. The rush of blood to the head?

2:34:39SpeakerI mean, again, my friend who does it suffers from migraines, and he says that this is the only thing that works for him. He takes a little bit on the end of his finger, sniffs it, and he turns into a piece of shit for like a couple minutes because it just burns, and he's like, ah! But his migraine goes away. Yeah, try that next time.

2:35:01BubblemanIt sounds like one of those life hacks that's a trick where, you know, they're telling you How to put salt in your gas tank or sugar in your gas tank gives you more mileage or something. It does sound like one of those. You're supposed to record it too, Tony, I'm pretty sure.

2:35:17SpeakerCayenne's pretty powerful. I remember when I started reading that literature and I'm like, I have to put it on everything and then one day I'm like, okay, it has to blend with the food. I can't just put powder in my mouth and take the pain. But I've definitely gotten it up my nose in a lot of those blockage type situations and unfortunately it is a natural solution that works for pirates.

2:35:42SpeakerI think it's just an incredible rush of blood to the head that just clears out everything. I don't know. Maybe there's nothing to it. Maybe it's psychosomatic. I don't know.

2:35:53BubblemanIt makes sense. I know people use eucalyptus oil and different essential oils for a similar thing just on their temples or to be breathing it. Those little things that you stick up your nose are similar where they're trying to Breakthrough. If I just eat it, I can get my sinuses to release the pressure that's in there.

2:36:15SpeakerWell, anyone who's ever took a bite out of a habanero pepper knows that those molecules that are in there, those capsaicins are very, very, you know, they're just, it's like poison ivy. You immediately just, I mean, I don't know what What other words to use?

2:36:32BubblemanIt's just like the cartoon when their face turns red. It's like that's exactly what it's like.

2:36:39SpeakerYeah, so there's some molecular recognition happening because even at very, very low concentrations, you could make a big pot of chili, like a five-gallon pot of chili, throw like one little habanero pepper in there, and it just kicks up the whole thing a notch or two. Yeah, we didn't have it. There's no cayenne pepper over here. There's some Pizza Hut. Red pepper that's like that comes with a pizza.

2:37:05SpeakerI don't think that's the same thing.

2:37:08BubblemanTry it. Just try it. Big chunks of red pepper in your nose. Just be like, oh, man, that Mark Scaldone, man.

2:37:16SpeakerHe might know what he's talking about.

2:37:22BubblemanThe perfect example of why when someone gives you advice, it's best not to change any of the key things. Ingredients.

2:37:35BubblemanNice little break we're having here on Hash Church 69 with 1,075 viewers. It's nice to break the 1,000 mark. We're never going back.

2:37:44SpeakerI think I'm going to try my migraine recipe as this, some pure ACBC.

2:37:50BubblemanWhy don't you snort a milliliter of terpenes? That'll do it.

2:37:55SpeakerMaybe I can pull the terpenes from red cayenne and then snort that.

2:38:00BubblemanNow you're talking. You don't have to snort it, I bet, at that point. Just put it on your temples.

2:38:05SpeakerKeep it away from your eyes. I do have some eucalyptus. They wanted me to snort cayenne. They wanted you to blow up on fucking this church.

2:38:23BubblemanI want to see you do it.

2:38:26SpeakerI take no responsibility for this.

2:38:29BubblemanThere's probably at least 100 viewers right now snorting cayenne.

2:38:36SpeakerI shouldn't have said anything.

2:38:37BubblemanYou know, Chimera sent me a funny link. It was a who is at the last year week at the end of Hash Church, and it was less than half a day. I think it was 11 or 12 hours, and the term that Chimera said that I said I liked, the cannabs and terps, someone registered that, Whois.com, not at Whois, I think it was GoDaddy or whatever, but it was very funny to think that it was mentioned and within like 12 hours people were registering the domain names of that term, Cannabs and Terps.

2:39:11SpeakerSo the question becomes is who is going to register SnortCayan.com?

2:39:16BubblemanSnortCayan, SnortCayan.com, or maybe we've got to incorporate headaches into there as well.

2:39:21Etienne FontanAnd not only that, but Micron, do you like your...

2:39:26BubblemanWhat's that?

2:39:27Etienne FontanI said, what micron do you like your cayenne?

2:39:32BubblemanOh, right, yeah, micron. What micron do you like your cayenne? Are you squeezing cayenne rosin out of it and then just... Hey, I met Tibetan traders.

2:39:46SpeakerThese guys used a little bit of very finely powdered chili and they mixed it with their... They're snuff, tobacco snuff, all very finely powdered. And they loved it. That was their normal thing. It heated them up. They thought it was great. So, hey, there's a little anecdotal evidence for you. I'll take my cut on snorkyan.com. I wonder if the capsaicins and the cannabinoids work somehow synergistically. Like, if you had cannabinoids and capsaicins versus just capsaicins alone.

2:40:25BubblemanInteresting that, of course, if there's value in it, of course they did it a long time ago. I wonder how far back that goes, Rob.

2:40:36BubblemanA little cayenne in your schnuff.

2:40:38SpeakerWell, I wonder if there's an endocapsaicin system like there's an endocannabinoid system because those molecules, again, are very, very active at very low concentrations, and you'd have to think that, again, they're binding molecules. Dr. Pompa, Dr. Pompa, Dr. Pompa, Dr. Pompa, Dr. Pompa,

2:41:18BubblemanSo I could change the shirts and make this like the 25,000, make it the 90,000 is like the super fire. That's props. I just read that in chat. I don't want to say that that was my joke.

2:41:33SpeakerNo, the 25 is for LSD 25. Come on now. We know what 25 means. Yeah, but the 25,000, right?

2:41:41BubblemanWe're talking, what is it, skulls? Skulls? How do they measure heat again? Come on guys, someone knows this.

2:41:53BubblemanNobody knows.

2:41:54SpeakerScovel units or whatever they're called.

2:41:56BubblemanScovels, it's something like that, exactly. Thank you. So that's what I was referring to, like 90,000.

2:42:03SpeakerMaybe it's a long co-evolutionary process you've got. Capsicum Peppers and Nicosianum. You've got the tobacco. They're from the same family. They're New World plants. Obviously, the Chinese, maybe they did the combo, but it must come from the New World. I mean, this warrants a lot deeper research. This is important stuff.

2:42:28BubblemanPotential book in the future there.

2:42:31SpeakerSo you want me to try to develop a cannabinoid snuff?

2:42:38Etienne FontanWith a high Scoville count.

2:42:40SpeakerHigh Scoville count, so it'd be like Ghost Snuff? Ghost Snuff OG?

2:42:44Etienne FontanOh, no, these are ghost peppers. No, no, no.

2:42:49BubblemanGhost... One million Scoville units.

2:42:54Etienne FontanYeah, that's a ghost pepper is over a million Scoville units. You don't want to do that. That will fuck your shit up.

2:43:00BubblemanYeah, that's dry heaving in the parking lot time and stay away from water. Maybe get a quart of yogurt and a loaf of bread.

2:43:09Etienne FontanI'd help your abs, too.

2:43:12BubblemanYeah, you might want to be diluting that one. You said that would help your abs? No.

2:43:17Etienne FontanI said, God help your ass, because if he goes down, it's got to come out. If it hurts that much, it can't feel very fucking wonderful going out.

2:43:29SpeakerIt fucks you up so much you forget you have a migraine.

2:43:33BubblemanYeah, no shit.

2:43:38Etienne FontanFix it right there, Tony. Yeah, I'd bring a Cal and a Pepto-Bisball or something with that shit.

2:43:42SpeakerMaybe why taking dabs helps is just the fact that when you cough, you rush blood to your head. Because every time I cough, it feels like right around here it gets tighter, and so when you have a migraine, it pushes your whole brain out. Maybe that's why it's mimicking the cayenne experience.

2:44:02Etienne FontanAwesome.

2:44:05SpeakerSo did you guys talk about... Did you guys talk about phytocannabinoids and water yet?

2:44:14BubblemanPhytocannabinoids and water?

2:44:16SpeakerYeah.

2:44:18BubblemanIn relation to each other?

2:44:20SpeakerIn relation to your entire career and what you do by separating heads in water.

2:44:25BubblemanYeah, we've been talking about water hash a little bit for sure. We're always talking about the dangers of microbials, of course.

2:44:32SpeakerUh-huh. Well, there was an interesting discussion that came up on Instagram about, it started with running fresh frozen versus running dry buds, and I know once upon a time, Robert and Sam and our other friend that passed away last year, we all sat around talking about Uh, dry sift and the importance of really curing, really curing the plant out so that those heads get a little harder and they're easy to break off at the stocks.

2:45:11SpeakerAnd then we once talked about, um, you know, the experiment of taking that sift and putting it in a glass of ice water and watching the heads fall down to the bottom. And everything I've read and everything I understood was that, uh, unless your water solubility is at 11, Thank you for joining us.

2:45:51SpeakerFresh material taken where the resin heads haven't had a chance to cure out over several months, as we were talking about with sift, would the water affect it differently from a cured resin head versus a fresh resin head?

2:46:17SpeakerI lost you.

2:46:18BubblemanNow I'm muted asking you if you're muted. That was pretty ridiculous.

2:46:22SpeakerThat's funny. Now I'm muted.

2:46:24BubblemanWe talked about that very thing, and I sort of talked about how we were going to really be coming at it from a perspective of drying and curing the bud up, the resin. I find curing the resin on the bud to be great. It's a nice, perfect little spot to get that resin out. To dry, rather than extracting the resin heads off and then trying to dry them all together, it becomes more of a challenge, especially for people that don't have access to the lab equipment that a lot of people are using now.

2:46:59BubblemanI also think that when I dry and cure material, and I run it through water and the water exposure is short, that it doesn't absorb the same amount of water as it does when the membrane seems to be very fresh, and when I run that fresh material, it almost seems as though the heads seem to Thank you for watching.

2:47:44SpeakerWell, in everything you read, it says, you know, phytocannabinoids or cannabinoids aren't soluble in water. So that's the whole reason why it works really well when you wash resin off with bubble bags and things like that, separate them with the screens with the different head sizes. So it was a conversation that, like, came up, and this is probably one for Mark, too, because the ideology behind, like, calling something solventless versus solvent-free...

2:48:15SpeakerI think that we try to like kind of draw the line in the industry that kind of says to the consumer if it's somebody saying solvent-free, generally some kind of solvent was used and then the solvent was taken out to a quote-unquote solvent-free. Yeah, it usually implies added. It usually implies you added something. A solvent is something you have a 55-gallon drum of at your facility and you add it to something, yes.

2:48:45SpeakerSo now with water, sure, by the definition, water can be used as a solvent. We see water used as solvents with teas and different things like that. But I always, and I tried to answer this on Instagram, was that the reason why we call it solventless in the water hash process is because water in essence is not diluting and it's not Being a solute to the trichome heads, so it's not acting as a solvent.

2:49:18SpeakerCan I say this though, Tom? I feel like we didn't really call water hash non-solvent hash until we had BHO and PHO and solvents on the scene. And then the water people didn't want to call theirself water hash. They wanted to say it was not solvent because even I was on the boat where I didn't like BHO. The first word turned me off. Click. I was like, It's a non-dissolving solvent.

2:49:41SpeakerIt's a solvent. Yeah, and I think that it was a marketing thing more than it was anything because now we're having all these great terpene conversations, and water sure the fuck is a terpene solvent. Yeah, water is a solvent that acts to coagulate and not to dissolve. So you're just using the solvent, a different property of the solvent, which is the fact that it's going to coagulate the heads and not dissolve it like butane would.

2:50:09SpeakerIs there anything to say about the fact water could be a solvent to the microbutanol and therefore it's not really about the process being solvent free but whether the product has the potential by the process to be solvent free because when I see the fact that people abuse something like a bubble bag by force rinsing it with cheap alcohol, Thank you for watching.

2:51:00SpeakerVersus people who take their time to clean their equipment properly. Like there's subterfuge in everything once you have a name that starts to feel like organic all over again. Yeah, I mean the word solvent implies that you're dissolving something. So in most cases, the use of a solvent is used to dissolve something. You're dissolving something. But in the water hash case, again, it's a very unique case where you're not really dissolving stuff.

2:51:31SpeakerI think it's marketing. I think what we've been bumping into is a lot of it because then I would have to ask is what I see happens with Vernon's high pH water hash, is emulsification dissolving? So what emulsification is, Todd, is that at a particular pH, what we see with lipids is that they form these inclusion bodies that scatter light. So when you see an emulsion, you look at something that has You can see through and all of a sudden it becomes completely opaque and you can't see it because these particles are now scattering light and so you're just changing the nature and arrangement of these things called colloids and what colloids are are loose assemblies of molecules and how they interact in something like a solution.

2:52:36SpeakerNot to sound like a weirdo, but now that is similar to what's happening when you put it through a solvent, too, though. The CO2 is acting, the butane's acting, the propane's acting much the same way. I mean, it's breaking it down into micromolecules that are then recollagulating, if you will. And this is what hashes, this is what cannabinoids are, what the terpenes are. This is what we're dabbing with, right?

2:52:59BubblemanI would add to Todd's statement as well that it's true. The solventless name is kind of funny. It is partially marketing for sure, a big chunk of it, because listen to this. Terpenes themselves act as solvents and break down plastics and other harsh things, and they're present in all of our solvents, we would hope. So to call your solvent... Thank you for joining us.

2:53:40SpeakerRosin, through that, you're not adding any solvent. You're just using the solvent and the nature of the moisture and the fluids and the liquids that are there within the material itself. So you're not adding solvent. And I think the word solvent always, to me as a chemist, thinks that you're adding something. It's something that you add, and now, again, if you're going to add it, you've got to take it away, too.

2:54:03SpeakerWell, see, and I just think that the whole non-solvent thing was literally a bad marketing idea by people smoking spliffs thinking that they were going to differentiate themselves from the solvent industry that was stepping up around them. And it's a misnomer. We're having conversations about terpenes being important now. Water clearly dissolves terpenes. And truthfully, now, I don't really have the nose Thank you so much for joining us.

2:54:51BubblemanIt becomes a personal opinion, though, at that point.

2:54:54SpeakerMy personal opinion all day, yeah, yeah. But I loved Waterhouse for a long time until I started getting around really finely crafted BHO and then realizing the nuances, the scents, the smells, the strength. There's so much there. I mean, honestly, I, you know. The one thing I was going to say, and I think, like, I used to explain this when I was actually a bud tender many years ago, about five or six years ago.

2:55:19SpeakerSomebody asked me, what's the difference between butane and water hash? And in layman's terms, I would say, well, in one scenario, we're gently collecting those little resin heads and separating all the contamination. In the other sense, we're inverting. We're actually using, we're inverting those heads. We're blowing them up, and we're taking all the oils, and we're taking all the terpenes, we're taking everything else, and we're still filtering out contamination, but that's the difference between oil and hash.

2:55:48SpeakerAnd so that's how I always looked at water as more of a carrier, not something that's dissolving. And so I do agree with what you're saying as far as the marketing. So maybe what it just needs to be is simply as what I started using is just chemical free. It's just if you're going to do water, if you're doing something with rosin or water hash or making medicine that way, shouldn't it just be called chemical free?

2:56:15SpeakerWhy don't you just call it what it is? Come on. Water hash, one word in BHO, the process, butane, or BHO, propane, or CO2, CO2. Why does water have to have some fancy word around it? Why can't it be water?

2:56:32BubblemanDr. The same reason you're not calling your magazine Cannabis Magazine. Because you have a name picked out for your

2:56:57SpeakerButane hash oil, CO2, CO2 oil. Why isn't water hash just water hash or dry seed, dry seed? Why do we got to make up some little non-chemical or non-solvent thing when it's clearly what it is?

2:57:09BubblemanJust like you have a preference that you prefer butane over water hash, some people have a preference to name their product a different name.

2:57:18SpeakerIt's not a product, it's a process.

2:57:20BubblemanTheir process is their product.

2:57:23SpeakerSo maybe we should just call it H2O. H2O. That's real simple. Just H2O? I don't know. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just don't know why there's a problem with calling it what it is. If you're describing the methodology, why don't you just say it? It's water hash, or it's dry seed hash, or it's BHO, or blah, blah, blah.

2:57:45BubblemanProbably water hash would be much more accurately called water and ice extraction because ice is always used. It's a very... Part of the patent, in fact. Ice is 100% water, though. It is, but it's frozen water, so... And we could call it ice water hash.

2:58:05SpeakerThat's groovy on a hot day.

2:58:06BubblemanThat's great. I'm good with that. Ice water extraction, ice water hash, I love it. I'm down.

2:58:13SpeakerTodd, it's because we're in the era... We're in the era of awareness. Ice water extraction...

2:58:22SpeakerPeople want to know how a plant was grown. Is this GMO? Is this not? Did you use a chemical to get to your clean result? Did you not? It's because we're in the age of information and people want as much labeling to identify or to isolate themselves. It works both ways. I want to know is limonene a chemical or is limonene petro? I'm like, this is a petrochemical.

2:58:46SpeakerThis is a natural chemical. You've never heard of a natural chemical. It's a new category to consider as a solvent. Thank you for watching.

2:59:08SpeakerIt's like if I don't actually delineate myself in some truthful way, a lot of misconstrued truths can be made up. So we are in that information era where someone wants to know, are you declaring it solvent-free? It's our first form of medical guarantees, even if they get abused as a new form of marketing because there's the dumb generation that will buy into anything labeled organic and never reads the criteria for organic labeling.

2:59:35SpeakerAnd Horatio, you know, I feel what you're saying and I'm only saying it because I feel it needs to be said because I think a lot of marketeers are coming along in some of the new states and they're really trying to promote what is differentiation and more than it is actually describing the simple process. I mean, and I'm just saying, call a spade a spade. If this is how you do something, say it's how you do something.

2:59:56SpeakerThis is not coming along and saying, you know, this is my hitman, bong, double, whatever, barrel, blah, blah, blah, that I'm naming a product. This is just saying, dude, this is a glass rig. Glass rig. I'm not saying it's an acrylic rig. It's glass. That's all. Yeah, but I think that there's two different things. There's a process, and then there's labeling for end products. So, like, as an example...

3:00:20SpeakerThank you for joining us.

3:00:39SpeakerProcess, or they'll say subcritical CO2, or they'll say CO2. Hold on, though. When you say this like this, because now there's a lot of people using processed oil, BHO otherwise, in food products, because I think a lot of the food products are now made with extracted oil more than they're ever made with vegetable material anymore. So shouldn't on the ingredients that when it says, you know, the oil, shouldn't there be parentheses that then break down the oil just like you would see it on the back of a food label?

3:01:07SpeakerWell, I think they're getting it to zero PPM in those industries, so they're not even putting it on the labels. They're not even. Yeah, right. It's almost like a GMO conversation then, and that kind of sucks, because I think we voted against our own goodwill, our own best interest when we voted against proper labeling, and I mean, this is another situation where we're falling into that. All food is genetically modified.

3:01:33SpeakerAll food. They'd have to label everything. Everything's genetically modified. All right, cat's out of the bag already. That's a sunny thing to think about. No, I had a question about that because I talk about this all the time. Aren't you and I GMOs? Aren't humans like as when our mother and our father? Yeah, any time when you make a new cultivar and you cross two existing cultivars, you've modified the gene by definition.

3:02:05SpeakerOkay, Chimera's going to hit me over the head, but you know, whatever. You're doing plant breeding to basically, yeah, I mean, select for traits. That's by definition genetic modification. So I have a question. For those of you who want to read or see a nice story this morning on CBS, Sunday morning, it's an excellent news program on American television. There's a great, great story this morning on GMO, and they talk all about it.

3:02:36SpeakerAgain, you learn that corn that we eat every day, it's been genetically modified over millennia. I mean, we've talked about this before. We don't need to go there again, but it's just the distinction of being able to do modern biotechnology, being able to understand genes that code for certain pathways and knock them out and put them in You know, the Roundup Ready whole thing that Monsanto is doing.

3:03:00SpeakerSo, again, their seed lines are basically lined up with their chemicals. Yeah, I mean, that's the unfortunate reality that we live in today.

3:03:09BubblemanAnd that's what people think GMOs are. When they hear the word GMO, they think, oh, that's Monsanto. That's, you know, chemical poisons infiltrating our food system. Yeah, I know.

3:03:22SpeakerIt's good. We here in the West have plenty of food, and it's cheap and plentiful. But in Sub-Saharan Africa, where they don't have plenty of food, they rely on genetically modified organizms to basically live, and it's a matter of life or death for them. It isn't for us here in the United States and Canada, but in Africa, it definitely is. Yeah, GM is just a technology, right?

3:03:49SpeakerYou can use technologies for good, or you can use technologies for bad. And, or not for bad necessarily, but to serve a corporate interest, which is what they do right now. But you can, I don't know, this whole thing about is breeding genetically modified, modification, it's kind of like technically, sure, you're changing the genome, but that's not what we mean by genetic modification, right? I think we mean chemical modification.

3:04:17SpeakerChemical GMO. So there's a chemical... No, don't even though because like you can do stuff like you can expose plants to mutagenesis like EMS or these chemicals that actually mutate the DNA and it's considered organic. But if you use like a bacteria to transfer a gene in then it's considered genetically modified. It's whether, yeah, it's essentially whether you're using biotechnology Or like just chemicals. Like you can take, they take plant material and they put it real, or seeds or clones and they put them, you know, relatively close to nuclear reactors and cause DNA mutations that way.

3:04:58SpeakerAnd that's, you can breed those plants traditionally and it's considered organic. So, you know, it's just a weird thing. I think people got really scared about genetic modifications because they didn't understand the way it was going on, and there probably was some, you know, legitimate concern about not letting technology be used that we didn't understand, but the reality is they've got all these new technologies for specific genome editing that you hear about in the news, like CRISPR, type CRISPR, CRISPR-CRIS, PR into Google and you can, I mean, Chinese people, Chinese groups are, they're doing it on human embryos and shit, so it's definitely happening.

3:05:48SpeakerIt's going to be one of the things of the future, I think. There's no such thing as a non-GMO. Where do you draw the line? What's genetically modified and what's not genetically modified? I mean, That's what DNA does. It explores biological space. I know I said that before, but it's like it just tries variation after variation after variation. Like every bit of life on the planet that we know about is DNA-based, or nucleic acid-based at least.

3:06:19SpeakerEverything we see is a mutation. Yeah, and like Rob's saying, everything that we see is a mutation. It's just variation that occurs, so there's always... There's always variation happening in the genome, and I think the argument over whether we change it and how we change it is kind of, you know, how do you say, not religious, but like secular, not secular. It's beyond the realm of science.

3:06:49SpeakerYeah, it's beyond the realm of science. That's a good way to put it.

3:06:53BubblemanEverything we see is a mutation. That's my favorite quote of today's Hash Church. Off camera, Rob.

3:07:02SpeakerYeah, that's the best part. That was good. What do you guys think about, this is I guess back at you, what do you think about like say feminized seed versus regular seeds as far as breeding and what that could have on a maybe a long term effect in the breeding world instead of crossing and flooring and collecting and Back and forth with these companies and things like that.

3:07:36SpeakerAgain, that's gynocious breeding. It's a technique. It's neither good nor bad on its own. It's how you use it. It allows us to do something that cannabis can't naturally do, which is inbreed really tightly. When you do that, you have to be wary. But I personally think long term it's not actually that bad. I think it got a bad, feminized seeds or what we call feminized seeds got a bad rap because of the early versions of them that were mostly done not using silver thiosulfate.

3:08:12SpeakerThey were done using, you know, either late flowering or stressed plants. So, you know, The basic tenet of breeding is like begets like, so if you take plants that stress out under weird light conditions or latent flower and use them to create the next generation, they're going to be more likely to be like that, right? There's maybe something that's filling the gap for us right now that would then be tissue culture down the road once we get a little more grip on that, do you think?

3:08:43SpeakerWell, no, because tissue culture only, well, it depends on what type of tissue culture you're talking about, but tissue culture really only allows you to multiply. It's like cloning, right? Whereas feminization or gynocious breedings, even if you're selfing the plant, it still allows for sexual recombination. So you can get new possibilities that come out, new genetic combinations that come out, but they're derived from a really small pool.

3:09:11SpeakerRight. And the whole idea is to not have that variation. What people are after with an all-female line is identical all-female plants. Ideally. I mean, that's what all seed breeding companies want to offer. There's two ways to do it. I mean, some seed companies will have a female that they transform to make a male for each line, so they're actually inbreeding each time that they make a line.

3:09:41SpeakerAnd from a breeder's point of view, or even a grower's point of view, this is admirable to have a female you can transform for each seed line, for each named variety you're selling. But most seed companies don't do this. They have one female that transforms easily, and sometimes it's even shared among a number of seed companies. And then you're Really limiting the gene pool once again. These are kind of genetic dead ends anyway.

3:10:13SpeakerThey're the equivalent of a clone in a seed because it's like a cutting. It's a female, so you know what it's going to be. And if they're all quite similar to each other, then that's also achieving the same purpose as asexual propagation, as cloning does. You're making a clone. So they're genetic dead ends anyway. They're not going into further breeding projects and things like this. But it is the technique you can use to do breeding projects.

3:10:41SpeakerYeah, sure. And I think that's probably the most valuable part of the technique. Sure. When you find a weird trait in a plant and you don't know how it's inherited, you want to cross it to another plant that has that trait. So when you're using males, it's pretty hard to identify that kind of thing. And so... The plant that is most likely to pass on the trait that you're looking at is the same plant.

3:11:07SpeakerSo if you self it, you make one donor into a pollen donor, and then you fertilize a female clone of the same plant, Then you expose all the possible genetic combinations that are within that particular plant. And you can't get variation. And you can't amplify traits, right? Absolutely. And this is, for instance, the way that single cannabinoid compound lines, varieties have been developed for Hortifarm GW. This is one of the techniques that's been used.

3:11:38SpeakerYou inbreed for a couple of generations to fix traits before you Then move on and do other things with them in the breeding process. Is that a patented process? Do they have a patent on that? No. No. But is that known that you can do that? I mean, that's obvious, known in the art. It's obvious to anyone skilled in the art, right? It's obvious to anyone who's doing a seed company and making all female seedlings.

3:12:08SpeakerRight, but they couldn't try to patent that, right? Not at this point. It's above the domain. Camara, when do you get into a situation where you've bred yourself into a clone only? Is it clone only because it's really just some random magic that has no intellectual breeding done? So to get it under control isn't worth the project? Like... I hear all these, like, I know that when that goes good, but I also deal in an agricultural sector where bananas go bad and then the world, because everyone is dealing in tissue culture of one banana, in India, the instantly global prices change because a certain plant gets knocked out by a disease.

3:12:47SpeakerWe're not there yet. But, like, how do we even get in a situation where it becomes clone only, there's nothing you can do, there's nothing you can try. Is that just a marketing tool or really anyone could work at it? It depends on what you mean by clone only. Like you're talking monocropping was really what you're talking about. I don't think the cannabis will ever get there because it's just not the way that it, at least globally, it's not the way that it's grown.

3:13:14SpeakerSo what's with the cultivar clone only? You can't, if I don't give it to you, it's not it, and there's no hope. Fuck a bag seed. Like, why do they, is that just marketing when they go so, it's impossible if you don't I don't believe in clone onlys. I mean, sure, there's a plant that is the only original plant, but when you see, when you start looking at enough plants, you realize there's groups, right?

3:13:37SpeakerAnd there's, so OG is like, everybody says, oh, it's like, I have this one OG and it's the original OG. Well, it's like there's a whole bunch of plants that have the same chemical profile, plus or minus, but they definitely make up groupings. And, yeah, so, you know, you can say, oh, this is the one, you know, blue rose or whatever you want to, however you want to put it, but there's other plants that will always approximate, if not exceed, like any plant on a given set of traits, so.

3:14:11SpeakerWhat we're looking at there is, in a way, every cultivar we have is clone only. Because as soon as you cross that with some other plant, whether it be a male or a transformed female, you're going to have variation. You're not going to have, it's how close do you want it to be To exactly the same. I mean, a cutting is exactly the same, grown under the same conditions.

3:14:42SpeakerRight. But as soon as you have sexual reproduction, I mean, if you have brand X, seed brand X, what that is, is seed brand X's mama was X. Seed brand X's dad was something else. Maybe it was X's brother. But it was something else. As soon as you have sexual recombination, you no longer have an identical thing. We've come to want and expect things to be identical.

3:15:18SpeakerIf that's what you want, then it's a clone-only proposition for you. If you want to go back and explore the genome a bit, look at recombined bits of the genome and try to find something that matches the female parent. Which is what people do when they buy seeds. You know, then that's another exploration. Well, that's what they expect when they buy seeds. Yeah, people expect... That's why I brought it up, because I get a lot of people...

3:15:43SpeakerBut this is really the difference of what is the difference between a cultivar and a variety. Right, and if we kind of put aside the whole international nomenclature thing, we're not registering them properly and describing them properly, then they don't, you know, they don't qualify as cultivars. But I think that what we call strains really are the equivalent of cultivars, but the true breeding ones, like relatively true breeding, like skunk one, is a variety.

3:16:10SpeakerRight, so that's what a variety is. It's a groupage of plants that the set of traits that describe them as a variety are stable and when you reproduce them by seed they come back They call that an elite tree in forestry. An elite tree like is worth a lot of money because its attributes of putting out genetically stable seeds are as close as you can get to a clone only.

3:16:38SpeakerSo it's basically our system would say a plant is an elite tree when it becomes a variety. When you can make seeds and that plant keeps showing up, you can truck like skunk number one. It comes up, it comes up. Thank you for watching.

3:17:19SpeakerWhen that tree gives seeds that actually produce another quality black walnut, maybe it's a term that's not standard, but it's called an elite tree based on how well the seeds produce the original mother. An elite would be the ultimate and you'd pay premium because it's also elite wood. It's the best wood and it produces many categories of quality. So a variety sounds like Almost like our forefather strains when it comes to it.

3:17:51SpeakerSo if I see like... No, because that's not what it's about. Like a variety is about the traits that make it a variety are reproduced when it's interbred through seed propagation. Whereas a cultivar is that the traits that define the cultivar have to be reproduced When you propagate it appropriately, which doesn't, essentially it says you can do clones or you can do root tubers or you can do whatever, all these different forms of propagation.

3:18:24SpeakerBut as long as you do it and then the traits that make the variety the variety come back, then that's really a cultivar. And reproducible and that's much easier to do with a cutting. And Many, many flowers and other things are asexually reproduced. They have what they want, the end point they want, and they don't continue breeding and making a stable variety. There's a huge difference between skunk number one and every other variety that was around.

3:18:59SpeakerIt was made through mass selection processes of hundreds, thousands of Siblings, an individual already called skunk number one, females and males, and then crosses between the best selections to figure out the best combinations. Yeah, and Sam said that even, I mean, he did lots and lots of crosses, but that one, even to start, that series of crosses were the most uniform. Right, exactly. There had already been selection on a small scale before it was blown up into a huge scale to make final selections, but few other varieties have had Populations anywhere near that size.

3:19:38SpeakerYeah, I'd even venture to say no other variety. Probably none. So that consistency that people note is there for a very good reason. And that the roadkill skunk is gone, is gone for a very good reason. You've got bread out. Hasta luego. Yeah, I don't think it's gone. It's just gone. No, but it's buried. Sure, the genes are still there, but if you're trying to find it from scope number one, look elsewhere.

3:20:06SpeakerGo back to the original building blocks. Go back to Afghanistan. Just to clarify, because we were all using the word strain, and I'm just saying these things because I want to get the definition down for people that ask these questions all the time. Basically, for what you just said, is when you have the one cut, like skunk number one, that's your cultivar. Everything after that is your variety.

3:20:32SpeakerNo, no. Skunk one is different in that it is a variety because it's true breeding. Okay. If you bought like, say, you know, a kilo of skunk seeds and you had somewhere to plant them and you planted them and grew them out and then let them reproduce, the next year's planting would be pretty much the same. Okay, so that's a variety. Okay. Okay. What would qualify as a variety if you were to register it, right?

3:21:01SpeakerSo if you had Blue Dream, okay, if you have Blue Dream that you're growing from clone and it's the Santa Cruz clone, you know, the Hymercene, then Pinene plant essentially, if you self that plant, if you made it breed to itself, which is your only way, you've only got the clone, right? That's the only way you can seed it. If you bred it to itself, not all the plants would look like the blue dream in the next generation, okay?

3:21:29SpeakerAnd that's why it's not a variety. What is it? A cultivar. Okay. It's hard for a cultivated variety. Yeah. I mean, it gets sticky. And you could actually even call a variety like Scott No. 1 a cultivar. You'd call it a seed cultivar, possibly. But it... To use the word strain any longer for plants is a bit outdated. Yeah. And cultivate variety. Variety is just fine. We talk about varieties of grapes.

3:22:04SpeakerWe talk about varieties of cannabis. Varieties of tomatoes. Grapes would technically, they're more appropriately cultivars. Exactly, because they're asexually reproduced and they are indeed identical to each other genetically. By cloning them. So that's what makes this challenging. Let's go back to what Horatio said. Let's say we'll use Blackberry Kush. Let's say Blackberry Kush clone-only variety. And let's say 80% of our industry consensus is like, yeah, that's the banger, that's the one, Blackberry Kush.

3:22:41SpeakerNow let's say you use that one cut to make tissue culture or clones only from that. And what would the definition of that Blackberry clone mother be? It's a cultivar. Yeah, it would qualify as a cultivar, but, you know, as Ernest Small says, you know, technically we don't describe them properly or publish, you know, the descriptors for the cultivar, so it's not. It's a Caps 22. You can't have.

3:23:13SpeakerYou can't really describe cannabis as a cultivar because it's illegal to grow it. That's the main reason. You can't really describe it and go through all the hoops to make it in the accepted taxonomic nomenclature system of naming things. It doesn't really qualify, but it does in terms of its agricultural production and In the context of the way it's being used at the moment. A lot of the other things too is that when they do these things, they look at them from a very morphological standpoint.

3:23:45SpeakerYou can include things like GC traces or chemical analysis of the plant to show what is unique, but that's not really standard in plants. But in cannabis, it really is the defining character between the different varieties. At least for our purposes. That's essential oil. Essential oil-bearing plants like cannabis, oh yeah, you do characterize the plant and the variety by the chemical makeup. That's how they do it with mints.

3:24:17SpeakerWe were talking about mints earlier. Mint varieties are characterized by essentially the chemical makeup. Dr. Right, but they don't have the, I mean, I would Yes, I mean, I want to say that they don't, but I'm not actually sure. My assumption would be that they don't have the chemical variety that's present in cannabis. So cannabis really is kind of a unique thing, you know. I don't know.

3:24:40SpeakerMaybe it's not. Maybe I'm wrong in saying that, but... I think a lot of plants probably have as much chemical variety as cannabis. But you're just not looking at them? I mean, we're just... Yeah, but it's not how they're being characterized. Terpenes weren't important to us taxonomically until very recently. One Of course they do some of the work you've done, you know, but that's how we're going to look at cannabis varieties is how they smell.

3:25:04SpeakerAnd that's part of the beauty of it, that's part of the branding of it, and it's part of the confusion with trying to figure out the medical efficacy of it. It's so, the terpenes have become so important, even if, without our recent stoners perspective, they've become so important just from the The way we perceive the herb itself, our organoleptic assay, we can't smoke it until we've smelled it.

3:25:37SpeakerWe can't escape that. We can't do anything without smelling it, and then really even tasting it, except the nail kind of did away with that, but you don't get to relate as much as we used to.

3:25:50BubblemanBut it's also worked against us enormously for decades, because prohibition Thank you for joining us.

3:26:23BubblemanFriends that I know that got busted just literally riding their bikes or walking, kicked out of hotel rooms from, you know, from that herb, from those terpenes. You know, the terpenes were almost like, I always remember people saying, we just need to breathe the smell out of the plant. And I'm just like, what? No, like we will just continue to get arrested. We will not be breathing out the smell and the tastes of the cannabis.

3:26:50BubblemanPlease.

3:26:52SpeakerFunny, the Emerald Cup. We went into these hotels and they had, you know, dropping friends off or whatever. They all had little waivers or signs saying, you know, Emerald Cup, don't be smoking in your room. But it was really funny because it was the first time that I was in a hotel that they all just reeked like weed. But for the first time, I didn't feel like it was me.

3:27:12SpeakerSo, you know, it was pretty cool. You've got to come out on a fish tour sometime. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

3:27:23BubblemanWell, it's nice to know that they're protected, though. The one problem I have with Fish Tour is that there's still an enormous amount of young people who get busted for varieties of drugs. They're actually, in certain states, they have the go-free for three. I'm not going to get into it big time, but it's definitely, be careful out there when you're at those concerts. There are praying law enforcement who are looking to catch you with the wrong substance so they can get you to work for them.

3:27:50BubblemanSo try to avoid that at all costs. Yes, oh, shout out, sorry, shout out to Jody Emery who's in the chat room right now chatting with everyone. She says hello to the panel. Hi, Jody. All right.

3:28:07SpeakerWe lost Todd. You know, there's something you guys were talking about earlier. It's about an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, you know, and This whole regulations thing, people are just going to have to get it right instead of trying to fix it. Yeah, well, everybody's relying on these really bad agricultural practices. They learn growing in basements. And, you know, you have to start treating the crop as...

3:28:43SpeakerI mean, look what Berkeley did. You know, I think Berkeley, the system is great. They created regulations and they said if you fail for any of these reasons, your weed can't be sold on the market. End of story. And so... You know, if the growers can't change and bring their product in line to the standards, then, you know, you're not going to make it in the industry.

3:29:04SpeakerThe handwriting is on the wall. I mean, look at what Berkeley's doing and has done and just expand that to the state of California and then think a few years down the line. There'll be federal rules that are very similar. They're going to echo what works best in the states. Yeah. And we already have foods, and we already have drugs, and we already have rules to regulate these things.

3:29:27SpeakerSo if you're in this business, wake up and smell the roses. It's time to figure out if you're going to be one of the companies that survives or not. Wake up and smell the roses. That was a terpene pun again. Yeah, that's geraniol with a little mural thrown in on the side.

3:29:50BubblemanBeautiful.

3:29:50SpeakerYeah.

3:29:53BubblemanGot Debbie Goldsberry in the chat room. Say hello to her as well. Hi, Debbie. She says, the only problem I had in the Berkeley process was the labs advocating for it, even though they knew they did not have stable testing processes to offer proof.

3:30:11Etienne FontanGot to start somewhere.

3:30:12SpeakerYou know. Sure enough. Labs need to be validated. Labs need to be ring tested. We've said this before. But... There are good labs in California.

3:30:26BubblemanFor sure, and I'm sure they'll only become more tuned and better as the business end of that becomes tighter and tighter, and obviously the ones who are excelling at it and have the protocols in place and the right lab equipment and the great people will rise to the top. I mean, you'd think.

3:30:44SpeakerYeah.

3:30:46BubblemanOh.

3:30:50SpeakerSo the reason why I brought that up to you as well is I just wanted to get everyone clear and defined because it is confusing. And it was really confusing when everybody, you know, when people are still calling their drug cultivar varieties that they're smoking sativas. So now the whole world is, you know, calling things indicants sativa and then everyone put the brakes on that and it confused everybody there.

3:31:17SpeakerAnd I was just trying to clarify that. And also because... So what you're saying is creating a feminized line or seed like that, once you have a clone only or cultivar that you're now cultivating from and replicating in tissue culture or from clone, when you go to a seed and you make feminized seeds, you think that the long-term effects of that, isn't that bad? And what it's actually doing is producing varieties within That breeding experiment in which could lead to different types of varieties that you then could pick up and develop your own cultivar or not?

3:31:59SpeakerYeah. So when you say when you go from clone to... So you mean selfing. You mean selfing the clone. Correct. Yeah. So that's a very severe form of inbreeding. So... Essentially, every trait that is heterozygous in the plant will become 50% more homozygous in every generation, okay? And cannabis is full of these deleterious alleles, these essentially variation in the genome, but it's really genes that don't work.

3:32:31SpeakerAnd as you go down and you start selfing the plant over a series of generations, You get, yeah, you get uniformity, but you also get a total loss of vigor, or not a total loss of vigor, but a very big loss of vigor. No, it's okay. So if you took the cultivar, and you took that mother, that first one, and then you created another one with the clone, and then you sell that as the seed to make seeds, you're saying that at that point it gets...

3:33:08SpeakerWatered down, or it's okay to do it there? You just can't do it to that offspring? No, you can do as much as you want, but there's just a trade-off to doing that, right? And so, like, some plants, like, some OGs, if you self them, they come back, and they're pretty OG-like, right? They actually all kind of look the same. But if you take, like, the Legend OG, I don't know if you know that plant, and you self it, it falls apart.

3:33:34SpeakerLike, you get all this variation from within, right? That essentially exposes all the ancestral influence to what that plant was, right? You get OG types, but you also get Afghani types and these not-so-pleasant smells that come from some of these Afghan plants. So what I was getting at is if somebody's at home, they buy a pack of seeds of their favorite strain, they grow that strain out, they get something that they kind of like that they feel represents the accuracy of the strain because it's not going to be identical, and then they go and try to start, like, say, a seed company from someone else's seed, which we see.

3:34:15SpeakerPeople just try to get their thing. Now that leads to what you're saying is a kind of genetic breakdown watering down and From there. Well, it depends how you look at it. Some would say it's breakdown. Some would say it's refinement. It also depends on the true breeding nature of the plant, the seed that they buy. Do they buy hybrid seed? Do they buy true breeding seed?

3:34:39SpeakerDo they buy something a little more stabilized? What's your definition of true breeding? I'm sorry? What's your definition of when you say true breeding versus hybrid? Well, true breeding to me is a variety. It's a plant that you can say, these are the set of traits that define the variety. Can you reproduce it from seed? And those traits come back. That's true breeding. The land races that we use to make the hybrid varieties, centimere varieties we have these days, or cultivars we have these days, everything you see out there today, those basic building blocks were true breeding.

3:35:17SpeakerPlus or minus, I don't know. Plus or minus, I mean, but they're within a population. It's an out-crossing plan. No two individuals are identical anyway, but within the norms of that population, they're true breeding. They all mature around the same time. They all look approximately the same. They have a similar suite of terpenes. They have similar cannabinoid ratios. Yeah, and that's the thing about how cannabis produces in the wild.

3:35:41SpeakerIt reproduces as a population. When we breed it in In nature, you know, indoors or in greenhouses and we do these lines, that's not the way that it breeds in nature, right? In nature, it's essentially all individuals, like all males mating with all females, so you get just tons and tons of genetic variation. And even when we breed and we go down to one male and one female plant, that's really, really not, it's far away from the natural reproductive cycle of the plant.

3:36:12SpeakerAnd so... You lose all that variation, right? And that's what breeding is about. Sometimes that's desired if you want to duplicate the same thing. Yeah, well, there's a cost. Yeah, of course it's desired. That's what breeding is. You try to stabilize. You try to make everything uniform. But when you do that, there's always an opportunity cost. So You know, that's why things like recurrent selection or... People, you know, stoners don't realize the way that we breed seeds in closets is not the way that out-crossing species are typically bred.

3:36:50SpeakerYou know? So what I'm getting at is what happens when guys like, you know, Robert and you, and like Robert's gone all around the world collecting land races with Sam, and there's a lot of those land races seem to hit Europe and here, and they created what we see as like all these varieties, right? And so, what happens when guys like Robert Clark aren't traveling the planet or repopulating with land races?

3:37:17SpeakerThat's what I'm getting at. So how do we, what happens there? I mean, what, you know, like, do you have to go back and visit those countries in Morocco and Afghanistan and who's storing those types of, keeping those things alive and, you know, like, you know how when someone says, hey, we lost the Cindy 99, well, it's lost. Like, how do we recuperate the cycle and not get lost in the duplication?

3:37:46SpeakerCindy came for a coffee shop. It didn't come from, you know, Afghanistan. So, but, yeah, I don't know. You can't, the answer is you can't. You can't recreate exactly what was out there because we don't have the same Opportunity, at least to do it the same way as it was done before. All these, it wasn't so much people running around and collecting individual things. I mean, Sam was fantastic with that, and he brought a lot of things into what became seed varieties that were available and became part of the land race genetics that went into what's available today.

3:38:31SpeakerBut that wasn't all of it. I mean, by far and away, bigger effect were seeds that came out of imported cannabis. You know, Mexican and Colombian and Jamaican and Thai and ad infinitum. And it's rare things like South Indian or something like that that might not have come to us through commercial shipments of weed. But even Malawi and all these African ones and stuff, they were small shipments of weed that came in.

3:38:58SpeakerYou know, and that's That doesn't happen anymore. And it doesn't happen anymore for several reasons. We still get Mexican, but Mexican is Dutch Cali Mex. You know, seeds there. And Jamaican is...

3:39:16BubblemanEverywhere.

3:39:17Speaker...lamb's bread Chinese, they call it, because Afghans are a little short plants. I mean, it's a personal taxonomy once again, but it's... that... Cultural and agricultural environments that foster these landraces up into the 60s and 70s aren't there anymore. Those people don't grow cannabis anymore. They grow bananas, or they're dead, and their kids live in the city and work for McDonald's. It's a different world. We don't have that situation anymore that fosters just going back and grabbing it and doing it again.

3:39:56SpeakerThat can't really happen, so we have to look for a different answer.

3:40:00BubblemanWell, it leads us to Jodi Emery's question, which is a question for the experts. Can you get the same or better quality of trichomes and potencies outdoors as indoors? Is sun-grown cannabis naturally better because of the light spectrum? I don't know what her definition of better is, but that's the question. And we were talking about a lot of this sort of losing the land-raised strains, losing access to those seeds, which obviously all of those strains back in the day were grown outside.

3:40:29BubblemanTwo versus today where the majority of it is indoors versus outdoors. So if anyone wants to take her question and run with that.

3:40:42SpeakerIndoor to outdoor environment is such a huge generalization. The difference between outdoor in Vancouver, British Columbia is very different compared to, say, San Diego, California, Arizona, New York State, Europe.

3:41:04BubblemanPlaces that will obviously succeed in growing cannabis, just like in Canada, there are specific places where we grow our grain. We don't choose to grow it out on the mountainous areas of British Columbia, but we do tend to grow it on the millions of usable acres of land that we have in the prairies.

3:41:22SpeakerYeah, well it's cheaper.

3:41:26SpeakerLet's be fair to outdoor, though. Let's say that you could pick any place on the planet, regardless of law, to grow cannabis, just like you can build any indoor environment to your specifications. You pick the best place on earth with the best live soil and the best everything you can do. Let's compare apples to apples that way to her question. That's what I'm saying. You can't compare it.

3:41:50SpeakerI think indoor is a dinosaur model. It's a factor of prohibition. It will be gone sooner or later. At least we'll be moving at the very least to hybrid greenhouses or lit greenhouses. But yeah, greenhouses are probably the future. I'd say more than outdoor. Everything I've seen through a greenhouse lately with, like you said, a hybrid greenhouse with the ability for natural sun as well as the lighting in there.

3:42:18SpeakerYeah, for the summer. I've seen 30% lately in a greenhouse. I mean, 31, 30, 28, 25% terpene profiles, anywhere from 2% to 4% in the greenhouse version, in California at least. Yeah, we've seen 5% too.

3:42:37BubblemanWell, people are definitely surprised sometimes when they hit that outdoor herb that they don't anticipate is going to be as good as it ends up being. And I just wonder if there's something to be had in that sun-grown cannabinoid profile that maybe isn't being reproduced indoors or vice versa. I think the indoor model is on its way out as well. I think people might keep it for personal use, obviously, but for commercial production, that hybrid greenhouse...

3:43:03BubblemanThe best of both worlds, being able to control those variables in that sort of outdoor environment where you still have nice kind of wind blowing and you have the sun shining through the glass.

3:43:16SpeakerIt's protected from rain. If you let the consumer speak, it's pretty obvious that indoor weed is better. People pay twice as much for it. Well, that's not so much on the consumer level, it's more on the dispensary level. Outdoor growers are getting much less for their product than indoor growers. If you have a greenhouse, you don't call it outdoors, that's for sure. No, but a lot of cannabis sells at indoor prices.

3:43:44SpeakerAt indoor prices. And they pass it off. Exactly right. I mean, even in, you know, people up in the interior of BC, as far north as, you know, they're up to PG or doing greenhouses, and I've seen that stuff sell for indoors. Yeah. The greenhouse is definitely the way forward. It's a way to be able to produce a clean product for people who are in the flower industry still.

3:44:07SpeakerBut how are you going to compete for extracts, which is what seems to be driving the industry at the moment? Why not just grow outdoors? Or low-tech greenhouses, at least. I mean, just cut prices to the bone. You're going to do enough processing that you can have dirty weed, but you don't need to have a product that's going to be directly smoked, either. It's going to go through heaps of processing.

3:44:32SpeakerWell, it depends on the extract, too. I mean, are you trying to extract for rosin, or are you extracting for dabs? Are you extracting just for THC, or just for CBD? Yeah, the way it's going now, it seems to me that... They're going to break it down. You're going to have THC extractors, and you're going to have reprocessor fabricators who make it back into what people want to put in their vape pens.

3:44:56SpeakerI'm only being partly sarcastic here. Look what's happened with non-cannabis vaporization. It's incredibly hip for young people to breathe Propylene glycol and make smoke rings with flavored stuff. It doesn't have any drugs in it at all. It doesn't even have CBD in it. It doesn't have anything except flavor and smoke. And if they're popular as can be, there's competitions and vape bars and maybe it's only Los Angeles.

3:45:31SpeakerThere's competitions? Oh, yeah. This is the hottest thing since the yo-yo. It goes right along with Kandama. I mean, this is nuts, but it's out there, and this is, it's all a different subculture, and that's, it's, why not just add THC to that model? It all came from people trying to stop smoking tobacco. That's where it all came from. But it's like you said, THC on its own is not that great.

3:45:55SpeakerIt is boring, but we have lots of terpenes off the shelf. Just ask the guys who want to, Patent that concept. Well, that's, you know, I know I've talked about these pens before, these extract pens, cartridges, but it's like, some of them people sell them with just pure CO2, but I'm seeing some other brands on the market, you know, as well, that are like, they're clearly adding flavors, and when you don't know what the flavor is that you're adding, I mean, I just don't think that's okay.

3:46:27SpeakerYou know, to be adding flavors or adding chemicals that you don't know what is part, it's not naturally part of the plant or the mixture, and you don't say what it is. You could put bergamotene in tobacco and nobody minds. I mean, there's all kinds of essential oils in the 400 plus things you can spike cigarettes with. So we already have a model for this that's been allowed by the FDA and ATF and everybody else forever.

3:46:51SpeakerDo you think it will align with cannabis? Why shouldn't it? Well, they won't want it because they want to over-regulate cannabis, but there's no model existing that says they can't do this. I think it will be up to the district. I mean, I can't see that happening in Canada, for example. Like, they banned flavored tobacco because they said that it was drawing children into using tobacco. So it'll, you know...

3:47:14SpeakerOkay. Yeah, right. It's funny. Like, you think about it, these vape pens, you know, if you take... And it started off, like, when I first came to California, it was bubble gums and strawberry, kiwi, and all these different things. And I was at... In Christmas time, my younger nephew was smoking on the e-cigarette with the flavoring as well, you know? And... But like what Robert said, that's actually what's happening now.

3:47:47SpeakerWhen I came here, I started collaborating, working with different people, and now we're making the vape cartridge is no-cut, all subcritical CO2, solvent-free, if you will. And you could get 90% THC, 10% pure cannabis terpenes, and it's

3:48:10SpeakerWe're doing it from the same plant, all the same batch. Yeah, that's great. You're getting 10%. What's the cannabis on that when you're at 10% terps? So this is 87, 90%. Let's see which one it was. This one. This is a version of a pure CBD, so this is no THC. This is from an ACDC, but you can see the consistency of it. This is ACDC terpenes.

3:48:41SpeakerWith a subcritical CO2 cleaned up, you know? So we can kind of choose our, we can kind of choose that. And there's another group that's out there doing THCA, you know? Doing pure THCA. So now we're making like, you make variations. You go, okay, what THC percent do you want? And what terpene percent do you want? So if you start with 99% terpenes and 99% THCA,

3:49:12SpeakerMake whatever you want. So that's right there. And people are specializing in those little types of departments now too, which is what I've noticed. And those people are all coming together. We're coming together. It's only natural progression. So the reason why I asked you that in the breeding is because the extract world seems to, like Rob said, push those type of things. And ultimately, at the end of the day, the consumer wants the same taste.

3:49:45SpeakerThey want the same response from their medicine, whether it's in a vape, a capsule, or a sublingual. And to explain variety to a patient or a consumer that wants the same thing over and over, it's tough. I even catch myself when I go to Whole Foods and I look for coconut water, and that coconut water that's lightly... Thank you so much for joining us.

3:50:35SpeakerWhere we can rely on the exact same genetics over and over, and is it tissue culture, or what is it going to take us to get... Yeah, well, not tissue culture, but stem cloning is the same thing, really. As long as you're not disturbing the meristem, you're not changing the variety or the culture bar. I think it's going to be more like wine, where you'll have, you know, it's going to be more about which area had the best season will have more of an effect than You know, your cloning method.

3:51:09SpeakerBut yeah, you'll grow from clone typically. I think most people will grow from clone. At least for the next 40 years, 20 years maybe. And then as people start developing varieties that are true breeding or at least stable for planting from seed, they'll start doing that because it's easier. You can mechanize it. It's less labor. Yeah, that's why I always like the actual bag system when you're washing resin and collecting head size because you know you've got a certain, for me, when you talk about varieties and I know like this is like how it falls into it.

3:51:45SpeakerSo if you're collecting resin, it falls into those screens. So a 25, a 45, a 73, a 90, a 120, they all kind of uniquely offer something different.

3:51:59SpeakerYou know, if you're looking at it as a medicine. So if you have varieties and strains, say you're running 25 pounds or 100 pounds of a particular strain from seed, you've got all these different varieties of that one cultivar, if you will, and the resin itself needs to be classified. So that's why I like the bag system because at the end of the day, if you run 20 pounds of something that was grown out from a mother That was from seed.

3:52:29SpeakerYou're going to get, say, your strain X, and then you'll collect all that resin, and you'll have different bags that collect different things. But ultimately, if you're collecting all the 120s from the 10 pounds, all the 90s from the 10 pounds, you can start to standardize the resin and ultimately standardize the medicine, you know?

3:52:51Speaker10 pounds grown from seed or grown from a seed? Grown from seed.

3:52:59SpeakerYeah. You standardize it. Well, yeah, I mean, as you combine, it's what I've been doing, really. But I think that, unfortunately, the way cannabis is still so variable in terpene content from generation to generation in most families and most seed populations, that it's not, you end up with a population average. You end up with, it's kind of like, I always think of it, you know, I don't know if you've smoked a lot of Moroccan hash or you've spent time in Europe.

3:53:32SpeakerI know you usually have access to something better than that, but that's what the majority of people smoke in Europe. And they're population hashes. It's hash that we didn't get from, you know, you'd never see something like an OG hash or a Blue Dream hash in Europe. It's not... So we're pretty spoiled in North America. But that said, original Moroccan I mean, plants, when you walk through fields there 20 years ago, you can't do it anymore.

3:54:03SpeakerBut Morocco's another example of a place where there is no original Moroccan remaining. It's gone. It's been swamped up by European varieties being taken there, European sensimia varieties, and it's finished. But there is no land race remaining there anymore. Back in the day, those plants weren't all that different from each other. They all grew in the same place. They'd all grown in the same place generation after generation.

3:54:30SpeakerPeople had kept seeds from elite plants, back to using that term in a way that it's used in cannabis breeding. It's the way that people refer to the populations they keep, elite populations of hemp varieties that they use to To then produce seed that's used for commercial plant sowing seed for farmers to have. They keep elite populations generated from elite individuals. But that's the way mass selection is done with a plant like cannabis, an open populated, open pollinated plant like cannabis.

3:55:07SpeakerIt's back to that again.

3:55:12SpeakerYeah, and that's part of what we've done, unfortunately, over The last, you know, 35 years is we've gone from this open pollinating species that had huge variation across a whole series of cultures to now we all grow clones and seeds made from the same clones. Yeah, for one reason. Drugs. Would you guys say then, can't we actually have a, if, by learning how much the terms of true breeding really basically say, Cannabis is more like a population, like that population, they jump well, they do this well, they do that well.

3:55:47SpeakerThere's a kid called Bubba Kush, there's a kid called Trainwreck, but they both work for anxiety. And there's not actually many true varieties. And there's a shit ton of cultivars, and a shit ton of them are only medically useful if we stay stuck in clone only, because any form of breeding is inferior. Basically, nothing considerable of anything elite that deserves the title of variety. Like, variety is not something you should hear a lot, actually, when people are describing their cultivars.

3:56:18SpeakerNow, most plants that we have is cultivars, yeah. Yeah, pretty true. That's a good synopsis, actually, yeah. That's what we were trying to get to for definition for everybody that's on the planet, trying to get the word strain out of their vocab. There's going to be some people that argue against that and say strain, but I think cultivar, in my opinion, cultivar is the correct term. Especially when you're referring to what 99% of it is, which is asexually propagated identical plants to their mother.

3:56:51SpeakerYeah. That's perfect.

3:56:55BubblemanPeople are also asking about THC acetate endlessly and the difference between the acid version of THC and THC-O or THC acetate. If you want to take Mark or whoever.

3:57:06SpeakerI can answer that question. THC acetate is the acetate of THC-A. It's basically an acetate derivative. You can make an ester Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back. Thank you so much.

3:57:46SpeakerThat he used in his suppository patent. And so yeah, so those are similar to THC acetate, but I think that where there may be some confusion, Mark, is some people refer to the acid form of THC-A as THCA. So that just might be just a miscommunication there, but THC acetate is a derivative that's made from THC.

3:58:19SpeakerA lot of people, you know, I know some people are getting on to this, but THC acid is what's made in the plant. The plant doesn't really produce THC. It's just a byproduct of what's produced in the plant, which is THC acid or CBD acid. And then that's decarboxylated either through processing or when smoking happens and releases the carboxylic group. Right. Yeah, but we're talking about acetylating that phenolic hydrogen group to basically make an ester linkage there.

3:58:48SpeakerAnd again, those are some derivatives that El Soli and other people have looked at. I don't think they're thermally stable. I don't think that those can be, that they vaporize. I think they would rather decompose. But they're great vehicles, again, for suppository delivery of cannabinoids through the fatty mucosa of the lower GI. The lower GI, that was the way of putting it. So maybe they were, that would be interesting if everybody was asking about the acetate version.

3:59:22SpeakerAre you sure they weren't just talking about THCA? So talking about THCA, and the thing is, remember when, I forget the doctor's name at the moment, but he was saying, oh, well, when we get to water-soluble cannabis, that'll be the future. And I was like, we have it, it's THC acetate, but I don't want to put that on my flesh after I see how it's made. There's got to be another way.

3:59:45SpeakerThe acetate you can think of as like a prodrug for THC. So basically by capping the phenolic hydrogen with an acetate group, you basically put an acetyl function at what normally is a hydroxyl function, and there is hydrolysis of esters naturally in the body by These are enzymes that basically hydrolyze the ester bonds. In that way, THC acetate is a prodrug that can be used to prolong the pharmacokinetic profile of bioavailability of THC because it slowly is metabolized to THC in the body.

4:00:30SpeakerIt's a prodrug, what's called a prodrug anyway. Well, Mark, like when we basically this is something that comes out of the old days of the forum, but basically people were taking it orally to trip hard immediately. That was the kick of creating THC acetate was to create it more of an oral party drug out of cannabis. Not to enhance the efficacy of suppositories because I kept thinking about it.

4:00:56SpeakerI'm like there is a medical use but damn it I'm not about to do that kind of a wash. It's the same reason why certain methods to get to THC acid produce a product that's not healthy to smoke and defeat the purpose of trying to concentrate the THC. Well, by making the acetate too, what you're doing is you're removing the product functionality that can bind up and make it maybe less likely to cross membranes.

4:01:23SpeakerAnd so you're essentially putting a more hydrophobic group on the molecule, which will basically ease its way into the cell membranes. And I think that that's part of maybe what that And then in the THDA, what we're talking about A versus, in the sense of what I think maybe the audience was talking about, was THDA in its raw form. I explain it as raw versus active. And if you don't decarboxylate The plant material, like I'm making all kinds of CBDA, THCA product lines, sublinguals, capsules.

4:02:08SpeakerThat just means I'm not bicarboxylating the plant material or those molecules ever. I'm keeping them in a raw state. And so that's taking them straight from the plant. And that's like when you collect, if you're able to collect resin by washing it, keeping your environment cold and And never having any heat exposed to it. You could have full melt that's nearly THCA. Very small amounts of THCA in there.

4:02:36SpeakerI think that's what they were asking about, was just that activation. And that happens at 285. I mean, if you're in the state of Colorado and you try to do a product approval on anything edible or something, you have to go through that whole thing. I had to show our SOPs in protocols against botulism and what you would do. So you wouldn't have to refrigerate a sublingual.

4:03:00SpeakerAnd so I had to figure out different ways to keep the product in its raw form but also keep it sterile for botulism. So even in Colorado, they come in there and ask, okay, are you decarboxylating this at 285 for an hour and a half or two hours? And they make you keep a log of everything that you do as well. And you'll see that throughout the entire rest of the nation from the public health departments.

4:03:25SpeakerThey will come together and they'll have certain SOPs and requirements for our industry. And right now, the very first one on their agenda is making sure that the plant material is decarboxylated before you digest it. And if it's not, then you have to refrigerate it or have special protocols that can put lines of defense against Thank you for watching.

4:04:12BubblemanI've just been spending the last 25 minutes trying to get Todd back into the room because he asked me to boot his profile and I have no idea how to unboot...

4:04:23SpeakerDid you block and ban Todd?

4:04:24BubblemanNo, I just eject. It's called eject from the... Oh, there he is! Oh, there he is! Man, I haven't stopped trying, I'll tell you. I'm like, what the hell?

4:04:35SpeakerHe's tricky for that. He did that when I was at his house. There's two rooms and then all of a sudden you're in the same room. Mark has way too many production responsibilities in the making of this hashtag. I just want to say that. This is the guy doing it. He's sweeping the halls, opening the doors, cleaning up after us. Figuring out how to fucking make it all work.

4:04:55SpeakerThank you, Mark.

4:04:56BubblemanDude, I'm sorry that I can't get you back in, Todd. We'll figure it out.

4:05:09SpeakerOne more question I have for Mark. I forget what it was.

4:05:14BubblemanWell, I'll tell you, after four solid hours of Hash Church, I'm gearing up for maybe one last rip.

4:05:26SpeakerYeah, I got one left in me.

4:05:29BubblemanYou got one left in you there, Tony?

4:05:33SpeakerYep.

4:05:38BubblemanIf you guys haven't already, go join the hash group on Facebook if you want to hear certain discussions. It's always easier to have it asked there than in the chat room the day of the actual church, but we always try to get your questions asked, answered if we can. And yeah, it sounds like MedVet saying if we start a new hangout next week, Todd will be able to come back in.

4:06:01BubblemanSo, awesome. All right, well, here we go. I'll do it for Darren.

4:06:08SpeakerOh, thank you.

4:06:11BubblemanThank you. For Darren.

4:06:22SpeakerWhat's wrong, Mark? You don't have a bong? He's in... Me, Mark? Yeah. I live in Pennsylvania. You live in Pennsylvania? What are you doing out there? I will be in Oregon tomorrow, so I'm working on it, Tony. Thank everyone for coming out.

4:06:46BubblemanThank Tamara and Mr. Rob Clark for making a special appearance at Todd's place. Always thank Todd for bringing in such great folks and facilitating such good things. Etienne, who always makes it in at 9 a.m. on the nose. Thank you as well, Mark Scaldone, for making it nice and early and sharing some chemistry with us. Horatio Delbert and Tony Verzura, always a pleasure, gentlemen. You guys know me.

4:07:14BubblemanI'm Bubble Man. See you next week, Episode 70, Hash Church. Thank you, everyone, for watching. Peace.