THC in Water and Cannabis Culture

0:00BubblemanWell, hello everybody and welcome to Hash Church episode 96. I'm just going to go over to the YouTube page right now and make sure I mute the microphone as it goes live. It usually takes about 30 seconds, so give me a chance here. I have, of course, heated up my brothership ceramic honey pot already, so we're going to be ready to rock that out. All right, here we go.

0:25BubblemanMuted, muted. Let's go give our invitation to our Hash Church panelists via Facebook and then via email. I'm going to invite in Cuban Grower and Aaron as well as Chris Barone from The Clear. Then we're going to send it on over to Chimera. Hey, good morning and welcome, Mr. Etienne and Todd. How are you both doing today? Good, sir. How are you? You know, no complaints. I just had a week-long vacation with my family, and I'm feeling pretty good.

1:01MrWas there enough THC in the water?

1:04BubblemanOh, my God. The water was just packed with THC, Todd. It was unbelievable.

1:08MrDude, it's incredible, man. It's the new way of enlightenment.

1:12BubblemanWhat the fuck is that all about? I've kind of just been ignoring that.

1:15MrDude, I want to know the cop that told the other cop, hey, get up there and read this. Tell them that there's THC in the water. Tell them it's a real problem. Go ahead. You can do it. Straight face. Go for it.

1:27Etienne FontanAnd not only that, you know, tell them that it's actually, you know, pot in the water, okay? And let everybody know so it'll go out and be internationally embarrassing to the entire water municipal system and to the entire police system for going out and putting this before the entire world and embarrassing us. Great job, everybody. Round of applause. Everybody gets awards.

1:50BubblemanYeah, it's a bit ridiculous for sure. I saw a couple of the stories. I wasn't You know, you just don't know where the fuck people's heads are at in some of this stuff.

1:59Etienne FontanFear mongering? Lies? Misinformation? Yeah, propaganda? Right.

2:06MrI love it. No one on the police department knew anything about science.

2:10Etienne FontanYeah, to hell with bong rips. We should do water rips now.

2:15BubblemanWater rips. Why would they know anything about science when they barely know a fucking thing about the law?

2:23Etienne FontanI need some H2O THC, man. Whoa.

2:30Etienne FontanOr would that be THC-O2?

2:32BubblemanOh, my God. It hurts my brain.

2:37MrIt hurts my brain. It's good stuff, though. I mean, are they still that desperate that they're going to make up lies like that? I guess they are.

2:48Etienne FontanWell, the media ran with it like they were puppies. You know, oh, look, there's marijuana and water in Colorado. Let everybody know. Because if that had been the case, you know how many water systems and water tables would already be THC-laden by now? Probably a few, you think, guys?

3:04MrCan I just say this? This is the point where CNN regrets firing their entire fact-checking department. What?

3:12BubblemanThe cops were lying to us? What the fuck can they possibly be thinking, honestly?

3:19Etienne FontanThey weren't thinking. I mean, I think we were all aware of that. It was just hearsay and conjecture, and then the media's like, oh, there's no need to snope or check this. We just have to run this. Let's get all the presses going.

3:31BubblemanThere's another one going on, and it's down in Seattle area, and they're like, the fish have cocaine in them. They found fish in the salmon, and I'm just like, I just... The internet is so ripe with bullshit, and keep in mind the majority of news is bullshit.

3:49Etienne FontanYou mean you're not snorting carp? Christ, well I did have a nice little... Mainline some salmon, right? Isn't it just about salmon season there?

4:00BubblemanYeah, it's all about the salmon up here at TN. We're bringing tons of it down to you guys this summer. It's happening. We got, yeah, that chum, bro. Fucking dog chum.

4:12MrOh yeah, the latest headline says additional testing rules Colorado, Townsville, and THC free, but their police officers are incredibly stupid. Says it right there.

4:23Etienne FontanWow, we could not have figured that out on ourselves. Thank you media for making us aware of that stupidity. I mean, come on, doctor, come on now. You had to be amused as a chemist that somebody was actually saying there's THC in water. Come on, Dr. Scaldone.

4:39SpeakerOh, good morning everybody. Are we talking about the THC in the water article?

4:43Etienne FontanOf course! It's world known, don't you know? There's water in a town that has THC in it in Colorado. Everybody, run for the hills!

4:51SpeakerSo, did they ever say how much, or it was just one of those tests that says whether or not it is or not?

4:58MrNo, they backpedaled and they said the kits were false positives. Imagine that. Imagine that. Just like every other person they've put through those tests.

5:05SpeakerYeah, well, it was probably from the thumbprint of the guy who just ripped a dab in the car before he took the test, right? It was just a false positive because it was contaminated from the contaminator, which is the guy who took the test.

5:19Etienne FontanThat's a very good point, actually. No, I don't... I don't want to think that a stoner could do this to us. No, if you actually look at the roadside technology, actually I just saw an article talking about how the drug tests that the police have on the roadside to actually test any type of drug that you supposedly have give more false positives than anything and cause people to be arrested because it's just a simple ampule that they put in whatever and if it turns a color, fuck you, you're guilty, go to jail.

5:52BubblemanWhy did they say, first of all, you know, because we know that obviously THC inside the encapsulated gland head can travel and float and be suspended in water. I use water all the time to extract my resin. I'm wondering how they, you know, came up with the idea that it was like actually soluble, like could it just use screens?

6:14MrLike I said, I just don't think that they understood the way things work. I mean, could you imagine how much cannabis would it take to dose an entire river?

6:22Etienne FontanWell, remember, the fear back in the 60s was that, you know, people were going to dose entire municipal departments with LSD. We saw movies and, you know, various things.

6:32MrThat was my hope.

6:34Etienne FontanI know, right? So I think it's just following along those lines. It's just they forgot that the rest of us are aware of science and have actually applied that to critical thinking, whereas they're like, oh, no, no, no, it's just propaganda. Let's just run this thing and they'll just eat it up like tripe. Oh, fish in water. Oh, THC in the water. Oh.

6:58SpeakerIt has low water solubility. I mean, that's the whole thing. That's the point of anyone who tried to clean their bong with water.

7:07Etienne FontanCops don't science, man.

7:08BubblemanI know.

7:12Etienne FontanThe drug war has proven that.

7:14BubblemanWell, once again, I use a little bit of water, and I heat it up. I boil it, just like a shot. Then I pour it into my pipe, and it makes the glass so hot. But now if I wanted to use a grunge off or if I wanted to use an isopropanol, it just takes a second or a half a second to just... No, dude, you got to get Scott Deppie's piss, man.

7:36Etienne FontanIt's the best shit ever, don't you know, on the Mothership thing?

7:39BubblemanIt costs like $25,000 an ounce. I can't...

7:43Etienne FontanI saw it. Mothership actually posted a thing. Some guy actually wrote them and said, hey, can I get some of Scott's piss there for him? And they're like, no, man, he's out right now, but could you check back in 15 minutes?

7:57BubblemanAh, you know those guys of course getting hate because they're doing amazing things and just, you know, obviously the collectors and the love of their pipes has driven the price sky high to the point where they really have to try and, you know, they need to almost control it a little bit. They don't just sell those pipes loose in every direction. They really have like, it's tight.

8:24Etienne FontanWell, you know, that's just a joke that's going around. Don't really use piss to clean your bongs, people, just in case you don't know. You know, I know that you're into propaganda from reading it from the police and such, but, you know, stay away from Scott Deppie's piss. It should be actually JC's piss from...

8:46BubblemanYou're whacked, ATN. You are whacked.

8:49Etienne FontanI woke up too early. I checked my thing and they're like, there's no link to Hash Church. Are we not going to have Hash Church this morning? I was like, oh man, I just want to go to sleep. I rolled back over and then I just woke up and I was like, yep, apparently there's a link.

9:05BubblemanWell, I do apologize. I spent the last seven days up in Whistler with my family and aside from doing one video for the channel, which I'll put up maybe tomorrow, which is... The Sasquatch zipline, which is a two-kilometer zipline that goes from Blackhall Mountain across to Whistler Mountain, and you go like 100 kilometers an hour or something.

9:30Etienne FontanIt's really... Did you whistle as a family together on Whistler?

9:35BubblemanWell, we like to whistle as often as possible when we're on Whistler. For those of you that don't know, whistlers are these weird fucking guinea pig-like animals... Thank you for watching.

10:07BubblemanWould absolutely love to have a cannabis gathering in Whistler one day, no matter how small or big it would be. It's just a special place anyway, so any reason you get people in Whistler, even people that are at super shitty conferences that they're not even stoked at, are super stoked that they're in Whistler. I wrote an article in Cannabis Culture in 2003 called Weedy Whistler. Maybe even 2002, I don't know.

10:35BubblemanAnyway, it was just about Whistler. I took some photos of the way up. I took photos of Shannon Falls and a couple of little lakes. And I talked about the culture and where you could potentially score weed in and around Whistler back in the late 90s, early 2000s. So I gave a little bit of advice on where you could kind of go find that. And man, I'll tell you, to this day, every day almost, I get people who are in Whistler Thank you for watching.

11:24BubblemanI just wrote him back and said, well, you should change your direction because Whistler is unfortunately not the easiest place to find great herb, which really kind of disappoints me because from a resort town perspective, from someone that lives nearby and loves Whistler, Whistler should have great herb available. In fact, I pray one day, and when I saw, I think it was Vale, In Colorado I saw a thing and it might have been a fake thing for all I know, a story that they were going to be somewhat excited about gaining access to this recreational cannabis market up on their mountain.

12:01BubblemanWhistler would reap the benefits. I can't even imagine the benefits that they would reap if they were able to open Shops and spas and dispensaries and allowed it to be used throughout the mountain and throughout the properties. It would just be such a better alternative. It's funny because of course, you know, first it's like, oh, that's drugs. Second, it's like you'll be impaired. In the meantime, so many people are impaired under the influence of alcohol up there.

12:31BubblemanThank you for watching.

12:42BubblemanWho are under the influence of cannabis mainly because, and I think we don't use the word impaired, because you recognize the influence that you're under under the influence of cannabis and you don't try to dilute yourself into believing or thinking everything's okay if it's indeed not okay, i.e. if you were to get too high, too big of a dab or whatever, most normal people would just not get on the sled and be like, I'm uncomfortable, I can't drive that right now, I got too high, like, It's different from alcohol.

13:14BubblemanCan I just pause you for a minute?

13:17MrPlease. There's no snowboarder ever. Yeah, man. I don't know. That button was too strong. I'm just not going to do it now.

13:25BubblemanThat's what I'm saying. But if it was, they would. It's not an ego thing or whatever alcohol is that makes it seem like you're okay. I've seen people argue that they're okay while barely being able to stand. It's like, dude, you're clearly not okay.

13:42MrI think that cannabis use actually shapes you to be a lot more considerate and cautious and even slow. When I was 12 and I was riding my dirt bikes all by myself on trails, the heavy helmet was making my spinal fusion hurt and I would smoke and ride and then I would smoke again and ride more and smoke more and ride more and I never hit a tree, I never dumped, I never did anything dumb.

14:05MrI never scratched my bikes.

14:07BubblemanI love the fact that when you mentioned the heavy helmet, younger kids were like, what is he talking about? Because helmets are like so light now, but I know exactly the helmet you're talking about.

14:19MrDude, yeah. And I had a spinal fusion and I wasn't used to it, so bouncing my head around with some big heavy helmet on was just kind of painful. But I smoked a lot of cannabis. Twelve years old, riding a motorcycle too big for me. No problems.

14:35Etienne FontanBut you know you're talking about with the mountain stuff. I saw that when I was in Colorado. Last summer I went to Vail. And when I was in Vail, of course, you know that's very much a ski town. It's very much a...

14:49Etienne FontanA resort area and talking to them about cannabis and they're like nope we don't want any of that pot or anything here you can go up the road to Breckenridge. So it was interesting to see these multi-million dollar complexes still very fearful of cannabis just last year with it legal in Colorado. So the locals were like hey you just got to go down to Breckenridge and others were like yeah but we really wish we could open one here in Vail.

15:14Etienne FontanSo I see what you mean by, and Whistler, how there's no cannabis there because, you know, these are multi-million dollar companies that rely on family business and they don't want any type of negativity. And it's a shame that even though it's legal, they still hold those negative stigmas on cannabis because as we know, those kids have been skiing on those slopes for decades high as fuck.

15:38BubblemanWell, that's just it, and I really noticed it in the photography aspect of going back country with pro riders and taking pictures and doing some videos and realizing that cannabis was much more a part of the back country scene than alcohol or any other substance. And you could tell it was used differently, like a sacrament instead of like a drug, and it was... I don't know, it just always made me for years now, like probably going on five years, I wanted to show that aspect of really of these professional athletes that were able to, you know, do something that would literally just shatter the myths of propaganda, of prohibition, propaganda, and lies, and the stereotypes that are created for people who use and love cannabis.

16:27BubblemanTo cut to this, where it's now one of the things that, of course, when we started it, we were looked down upon, snowboarding and skateboarding and these such things, but now they're in the X Games and they're, you know, soon to be, you know, some of them already are Olympic sports.

16:42Etienne FontanRight, didn't Russ Bagliotti, wasn't he the big Canadian, right, who won a gold and then had it pulled and... Yep. And now is, is now a proponent for cannabis? Doesn't he have like his own line of cannabis and cannabis products now? Indeed he does. Indeed he does.

16:57MrWell, if we're, if we're going to have this conversation, I mean, how many people that are serious in sports treat cannabis much like a performance, enhancing relaxation for recovery, for appetite stimulation, for focus, for endurance. I mean, cannabis has a, a major role in every dojo. I've ever been in quietly in the background and even in most gyms.

17:20Etienne FontanRight. I was about to say weightlifters, they don't sit there and have a beer after working out. Fuck no. They have a couple of puffs and they're good to go. It was fascinating to see the undergroundness. Hell, we saw, remember, what was it, Schwarzenegger's movie after he won his seventh Mr. Olympia. What does he do? He rolls and smokes a joint. Arnold is numero uno and laughs and giggles as he smokes his joint and has this tiny little slice of cake, you know.

17:45Etienne FontanThat was back, what, in 77, 78? It was a long time ago, yeah.

17:49MrPumping iron, the end of pumping iron is what you're talking about. And, you know... You know, it really disappointed me, one, that we had that guy as a governor, but two, when he was governor, he didn't legalize weed. I mean, Tommy Chong used to get high with him when he was training in Venice Beach. And this guy is, you know, then he gets in and he fucking decrims it.

18:07MrAnd what bothers me about the decrims, I was looking up statistics because of the Alma debate we had, and, man, almost 20,000 to 30,000 people getting arrested in California every year for misdemeanor amounts of cannabis. Since his decriminalization happened. So bigotry is still widely enforced all over the state by the discretion of whatever cop feels like doing.

18:31BubblemanDude, you're talking about a dude that used to give away records of Hitler's speech. Right? Arnold Schwarzenegger, his father was an Austrian who...

18:42SpeakerI did not know that.

18:43BubblemanYeah, his grandfather was a Nazi soldier. He left Austria to volunteer for the Nazi army.

18:53BubblemanYeah, there's a story about, he's like Mr. Universe, this huge black guy, I can't remember his name. Him and Arnold were actually friends, and there's an interview with him talking about how it was just the one weird thing. He's like, well, there was this one weird thing. It's like, holy shit, that's pretty up there for weird. I'll Google it.

19:15Etienne FontanWell, it's great now, because now we're seeing, as you saw from the professional football players and others, You know, I have heard of many professional sports players around that sign their contracts, and I've heard rumors that they smoke pot, but now to actually see them come out and, you know, forming organizations, actually football players putting their salaries into research. I mean, the impact that, I mean, football has shown just because of the head impact and the head injuries that are, you know, coinciding and now to see For sure.

19:50Etienne FontanIt's exciting.

20:08MrI think it's this information that people are sharing. They're getting more confident to share it with others. They're researching it. They're looking it up. I mean, this is something that I can't say enough. You know, 20, 25 years ago when we were running around at the Emperor, we needed Kinkos because we had no way of sharing any of the information that we had to present to people.

20:25MrNow, I can just grab somebody's phone out of their hand, go to Wikipedia, type in hemp instead of help and hit enter, and let them sit there and read. No trip to Kinkos required. And I think This responsibility in educating ourselves has to be impressed upon everybody because we haven't been taught this information, so we have to not only teach ourselves this information, we have to go, once we know this information, and teach other people.

20:51Etienne FontanWe have to dispel the misinformation, as we know. We're talking decades of lies and misinformation that have been perpetuated on us and every school kid up in the U.S. and Canada, right? You get drug interdiction classes up in Canada, right, Mark?

21:05BubblemanYeah, I think we had like a dare version. I can't remember what ours was called. It was really stupid.

21:12Etienne FontanI don't know if they really go for it anymore. But you went through that sort of indoctrination in school though, yes?

21:18BubblemanNo, no. In fact, I did not ever go through that indoctrination in school. They never came in and told us drugs were bad. I don't know why they didn't do that. I went to school at like, for the first six grades, I was in like a French immersion sort of taught by nuns, heavy duty, yeah.

21:43Etienne FontanNo, I went to Catholic school too and it was very much Irish nuns too so they beat the living shit out of us all the time. Mine were all French. Yeah, they basically... Oh, mon frere.

21:57Etienne FontanI can remember it was pre-DARE, it was 5th or 6th grade, the token police officer coming in, everybody going, oh shit, it's the police. And then with the briefcase, and it opening up this briefcase which had... Every list of drug in a little either ampule or just to show you. And the weed was like this shitty brick weed from like 10 years ago that was decomposing in the back.

22:23BubblemanNow cut to the world that could have been where that cop He doesn't even exist in that world and it's like this really cool dude comes in and he's like, hey, what's up guys? Today I'm going to tell you about all this cool shit. You're going to want to learn about this when you're older. For now you should probably stay away from it but let's just start with this really safe one.

22:44BubblemanLike educate them. Teach them. Do not go and scare them and lie to them because when you lie to them about one thing, the next thing you know, well maybe we should try this. They lied about that. Maybe they lied about this. I don't know. I think education is the better option than to manipulate and to try and direct people with lies. It doesn't seem like if it was a movie or a story, as you were reading it, you'd be like, oh, this isn't going to work out.

23:11BubblemanBut yet they don't see that in the grand scheme of things, like on a governmental level or on a society level. It's like, man, if it doesn't work out in the movie, did you have something to say, Mark?

23:24SpeakerI was just going to say, my kids both had D.A.R.E. and it was completely useless. And if anything, it shamed them because they knew sort of like what they were getting into going into it. It was just a really hopeless kind of effort to, I guess, try to, I don't know, find out what was going on in parents, you know, in kids' and parents' homes. It was just obtrusive and obnoxious and just completely against what, you know, I think that's what this country is supposed to stand for, which is freedom in the pursuit of happiness.

23:59Etienne FontanSo did your kids give you a perspective? Because I would take it, Mark, you educated your children that you're a cannabis smoker, you haven't hidden it from them. Did they give you feedback from confusion, saying, Dad, they're telling us in school that what you're doing is bad, that I should turn you in?

24:17SpeakerYeah. In particular, my firstborn, my son, came back Very, very confused on the whole thing because he's like, you know, they're telling us this and they want us to do this. And, you know, we said, hey, look around you. Do you want this to disappear? In no uncertain terms, you know, I mean, they're basically threatening your livelihood to have the sheriff come knock on your door saying that, Oh, your kid turned you in for the greater good of the community, and you should exist in our community, so we're going to come and search your house and raid you, and if we even find the smallest thing, you're in trouble, you know?

25:03MrBut, you know, it's interesting how many people still take a different approach. I mean, my mom pulled me aside and showed me things, you know, like a joint and said, you have no idea what this is, you know? Picked up a bong and said, you've never seen... Seriously, if you talk to them and tell them you have these things, they will come and take you away from your mom.

25:22MrDo you get me? And she created kind of a pact between us where I felt like there was me and my mom and my family and the world that was questionable and untrustable. And I've got to be blunt. I think it was a really truthful way to look at it. And I've had another friend who openly smoked in front of his kids and when they were all playing pool in his house and His daughter went to walk in, and a woman that was just visiting the first day kind of tried to block his daughter from coming into the room where we were.

25:53MrAnd she said, stop, your daddy's smoking a cigarette. And his daughter looked up at this lady and said, put her hand on her head. She said, my daddy don't smoke cigarettes. He only smokes joints. And the lady stood there stunned and she ran up to her dad and she was like, Daddy, that lady thinks you smoke cigarettes. And he said, what did you tell her? She goes, I told him my daddy only smokes joints.

26:15MrAnd it was really cute. And when she walked out, the lady said, wow, you know, you don't hide anything from your kids. And he says, well, I came to the conclusion that I can either, you know, let my kids grow up and learn from a liar who, you know, basically betrayed their trust their whole life, or I was honest with them. And if my kids can't accept me, Who can?

26:34MrYou know? What the fuck? And I thought it was a great way of looking at it. And his kids turned out absolutely awesome.

26:42SpeakerWell, it was so interesting because between my son and my daughter, there's four years. And by the time my daughter went through the education, I mean, you know, Colorado adopted legalization. I mean, there's just this whole wave going across the country and Thank you for watching.

27:19SpeakerSo, yeah, I mean, it's interesting now that the, I think it's the access to the information and the fact that now the kids who are going through that education are more schooled than previous generations of kids because access to information and they watch Hash Church and believe me, man, I get high fives from From kids all the time, you know, sometimes at the groceries, it's like, hey, Mr. Sheldon, what's up?

27:49SpeakerIt's like, you know, because they know. I mean, I think that there's one other thing, too, that's interesting. As you see what's going on, not only on television and what's going on in the internet, you know, the other side of the coin is that all day long, every hallway, every place, Opiate epidemic. That's all I hear about is the incredible opiate epidemic. There's this opiate epidemic. There's posters.

28:24SpeakerYou can't ignore that it's just something that has just invaded our society. Whenever I see a new strip mall or a new grocery store and it's like, watch, there's going to be a drug store there. Sure enough, Walgreens, CVS, there are more drug stores And more alcohol stores than you can shake a stick at. I mean it's unbelievable how there's this theme in our society that's pervasive and that's advertised to children And then they got this other DARE thing, you know, and that's why DARE is just a joke now.

29:03BubblemanLet's be honest about the opium, opioid addiction problem as well, Mark. It's also a fentanyl problem. And because it's a fentanyl problem, it's also a W18 problem. And those are just, they're causing deaths at such an accelerated rate.

29:22SpeakerIt's pretty frightening to think... Yeah, benzos, I mean, all of them. And not only this, Mark, what they think, again... Oxycodone. They're taking these things which are orally medicated. They're medicated for oral consumption, so that means they're mostly dispersed in starch and other sugars and other inert matrix components that are just meant to be digested, you know, gelatin and whatnot like that. And they're taking these things and they're crushing them.

29:54SpeakerAnd they're snorting them. They're not meant to be snorted at all, man. These things are just bad, bad, bad to go up the nose. It's just, yeah, talk to, hey, Chris, talk to these guys who, again, know that when you have these things that are packaged for oral activity, I mean, it's amazing that these drugs work at all. And so when you take these things, you're only taking a few milligrams at a time.

30:21SpeakerThey're really, really, really, really potent. They're considered like a fentanyl lollipop. They have a fentanyl lollipop. I mean, think about how strong it must be if you can mediate your dose of a drug by licking a lollipop. Really, they have a lollipop? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's a great way to deliver the drug.

30:41BubblemanWell, what is it? 30 to 50 milligrams of fentanyl can kill you, and W18 is 100 times stronger than fentanyl?

30:50SpeakerYeah, it's insane when you get these like very, very well engineered molecules. People, I mean, they spend millions of dollars finding the most potent drugs they can make so that they have to manufacture oh so little. And I mean, if you look at the structure of fentanyl, I mean, I think Mark could probably whip it up in like two or, you know, one or two steps. It's like super simple chemistry and it's scary how, how like acceptable, you know, how A, it's acceptable and B, like, you know, our government allows the production of it.

31:18SpeakerI found this amazing, the DEA lists all of the, um, Thank you for watching.

31:41SpeakerFind the actual, they keep quota, they keep tabs of how much of each one of these drugs is allowed in production. It is fucking insane how much hydrocodone, hydromorphone, morphine, all these things. I mean, they make tons and tons and tons of these products. And then when you look at how they get, what's really fucked up to me is how you get like, the insurance companies ultimately are the ones that pay for these drugs for people to, for their pain, which ultimately end up getting sold on the street and And then the American government, or the American people rather, pay for most of the insurance up front.

32:14SpeakerSo we're paying for people to sell these drugs on the street at a low cost.

32:17BubblemanFucking hell, dude. Welcome, by the way, Chris.

32:20SpeakerHey, sorry I missed you guys last week.

32:22BubblemanYeah, this is fucked up, dude. It's hard not to talk about this whole... Especially because it's so scary that it can start. You don't just start with fucking W18 or fentanyl. Generally, these kids are like snorting Tylenols and then Tylenol 3s and then Oxycodons and then Fentanyls and then all of a sudden they're like...

32:44Etienne FontanIt's not even just kids. It's, hi, you just broke your leg and then they give you this pain medication. Now, oh shit, you got to get off this pain medication. But damn, you really like that feeling. That sensation was awesome. The next thing you know, you're robbing your friends and your family. I see this all over small town. When I was married back in... I got married in Gonzales, Louisiana, and I watched my ex-wife's cousins and nephews become so addicted to prescription drugs just from a car wreck or an injury, and then step it up to where they're access to heroin because Heroin is cheaper than anything nowadays.

33:23Etienne FontanThere's a heroin epidemic that is completely being ignored for the most part in the United States and Canada, and we are flooding the market with cheap opium from either Mexico or definitely from Afghanistan by the ton to the point where the drug war is so successful that it's easier and cheaper for people and kids to get access to heroin than it is to cannabis.

33:47SpeakerYeah. Yeah. I'm from New Hampshire, man, and, like, there were no, like, when I grew up, there was no heroin. That was just not a thing. Like, it was heard of, but it was not a thing. And now, like, I've been out of New Hampshire since probably I was 18, so 12 years ago, you know, and now all I hear about, I have friends who've died of overdoses and, like, people getting busted for heroin distribution.

34:09SpeakerIt's like, what the fuck happened? Like, you know, it's really sad how, like, that, you know, the addictive quality of it is what, you know, is behind its proliferation. I don't think anyone who really wants heroin, like, you know, other than people that are addicted. Pharmaceutical companies, the pharma industry, they want heroin because they sell illegal heroin, right? That's true.

34:33BubblemanWell, listen, they obviously want it when you see how much of it's being produced.

34:38SpeakerYeah, I had a substitute teacher in high school, I can't remember the company he worked for, but they made the Narcons or whatever the hell they're called, and he said that all day, every day, there were armored trucks pulling in and pulling out. They're just going with the flow. They're seeing a spike or boost in sales and what do they do other than apply economics to it and make more?

35:14Etienne FontanWell, we saw Drugstore Cowboy when we were kids. You know, Drugstore Cowboy was all about that. You know, people were addicted in the underground community that people actually would go rob pharmacies back in the days, you know, just to get access because they couldn't afford. And that has only escalated exponentially because, agreed, I have to say the same thing, Chris, when I was growing up there was no heroin and back was Louisiana and stuff like that, but by the time I was 19 and moved out here to California, my roommate was Thank you for watching.

35:55Etienne FontanBecause that's the reality of addiction. And when it gets to somebody, I've seen it ruin families because, you know, the trust of a cousin is lost when they start stealing from the aunt and the uncle and then the rest of the family has to shun them now because they're stealing or they're stealing from their drug cabinet. I mean, how many times have you heard of somebody stealing from their grandfather's drug cabinet or something like that?

36:17Etienne FontanIt's insane. When I first moved to L.A., when I was living with Todd, we had our first party when I was living in Hollywood, and the whole house was partied, and I came and found my bathroom had been absolutely rummaged, and any pharmaceutical had been absolutely decimated and taken. It was quite a shock to me.

36:42SpeakerBut did they take your dabs, or were your dabs all right? I didn't have dabs back then.

36:47Etienne FontanThis is 94 or 95. We had weed. It was Todd. Todd was growing weed. There was no want for weed. We were playing with these huge seeds and making our own hash and stuff. It's sad to see society, but on top of that, society ignored these problems. Society ignored this addiction. Society would rather see these pharmaceutical companies make profit, they're okay with that, than watching their entire families disintegrate from pill after pill.

37:18Etienne FontanIt's a bizarre sociological experiment to watch go down.

37:25SpeakerI remember like when I was looking at some of those DEA things, you'd look at these applications and it... The application for Bollinger or Ingelheim or whatever the hell the company name is to import Poppy Straw and to import this thing. I'm like, wait a minute. So these major companies are now importing the precursors from India and these foreign countries? Wait, what the hell? And of course these big corporations, they get the okay and it's just so fucked up when you really break it down what's really, really happening.

37:55Etienne FontanWell, if you realize 10,000... All right, here's one. Coca-Cola. You realize that, you know, Coca-Cola still uses the inner ingredients from cocaine, still to this day. It's produced by a Bolivian cocaine company. So if you think about 10,000... Back about five or ten years ago, they were saying it was approximately... Think about this, people. 10,000 Cokes sold per second... So if there's 10,000 Cokes sold per second, how much cocaine is being legally grown to produce the inert ingredients for Coca-Cola right now?

38:30SpeakerIt's funny you mention that. I was looking yesterday. We were talking, me and a friend of mine were like, what's the most popular consumer product in the world? And it's Coca-Cola. 1.5 billion sodas a day. Fuck, like, that was, as we looked up yesterday. So, like, and I never even considered that, but consider, yeah, they're like, sure, import all the non-inert, where's the fucking cocaine going?

38:50BubblemanWell, I definitely heard Coca-Cola has a larger fleet of trucks than the U.S. Army.

38:56Etienne FontanOh, God, it's probably true. Hell, Budweiser has their fleet on military bases painted the same camouflage as the military vehicles. Jesus.

39:07SpeakerThose are high-value targets.

39:11Etienne FontanI'll tell you one of the first things I ever did was in the field when I got to the field with my, after basic training, I was a private and the first thing we did when we went out in the field was 5 of 10 of us were assigned to this huge dig hole and we basically dug this huge hole and then they showed up with all the beer and then we buried the beer and hid the beer until the inspectors came out and were like, yep, everything's good and then our duty was to uncover all the beer and pass out all the beer.

39:42Etienne FontanSo, welcome to the U.S. military.

39:45SpeakerWhich do with the weeds?

39:49SpeakerDid you bury the weed or no?

39:51Etienne FontanI didn't have weed back then, but later on I would smoke with, we would get together out in the field and we would get in a large circle so we wouldn't smell and we would all, whoever brought weed would light our joints and then just pass it to the left until it was all gone then it would disperse. And then, oddly enough, next day we all had a piss test and all of us came up clean.

40:16Etienne FontanHow funny was that? That was funny. Because 16 non-commissioned officers coming up positive for your entire battalion, that would really fucking destroy your entire battalion.

40:29SpeakerSo actually, I had a funny story. I was on probation in Massachusetts years ago for selling weed, of course, and I just couldn't handle the piss test, so I went through the process of basically getting the Wizenator, essentially. And like, oh man, and I learned that the dick was the problem because the thing barely peed and I like, I came so close to like getting caught on this thing.

40:55BubblemanYou got the one with the urinary tract infection?

41:00SpeakerNo, but it was funny because for like six months I beat this piss test with like a pouch of fake piss and like a little clip and like... I don't recommend it to anybody.

41:11Etienne FontanIt was the one with the prosthetic penis. You actually had to tuck a prosthetic penis.

41:18SpeakerI went to a courthouse with this fake penis, but the thing dripped and leaked out all into my pants, so I had to cover up this big wet spot while I sat in the probation office of this fucking courthouse. This is like the best story ever. And so what ends up happening... It's like I have to go take an alcohol breath test because that's part of the probation.

41:38SpeakerI'm in this back office. I go to stand up. The Velcro strap that's like strapped this thing up to me breaks. So now I'm holding this fucking thing up with my arms. I have to like walk across this whole probation office and then go dribble out this fake piss into this cup. Somehow managed to get through this whole experience and for the next six months I just got rid of the like fake dick and just brought this like this tube with a little plastic clip in it and man I don't recommend it to anybody but that I look back and think like I was willing to not smoke or rather to smoke and do this whole charade and fucking go almost go to jail so many times like holy shit.

42:24SpeakerSo, and I know that the Wizinator guys got federal time for that, for manufacturing that thing. Really? Yeah, if you look, one of them did six months federal time for something about, something about going against the Justice Department. I can't remember what they tried them for.

42:41Etienne FontanSome sort of fraud.

42:42SpeakerYeah. Undermining the Justice Department or something? Like, it was nuts.

42:48Etienne FontanYeah, first people arrested for selling dildos and piss.

42:52SpeakerYeah. Actually, I found out, so I stopped buying the fake piss. I made piss out of, I'd take water and a little bit of saffron and just get the color right and take out the saffron, add a little bit of salt, a little bit of sugar, and a drop of Coke.

43:18Etienne FontanThat's insanity, Peppers.

43:20BubblemanYeah, that made me laugh pretty hard. Chris will be putting up the urine recipe in the Hash Church group later on.

43:27SpeakerAbsolutely, absolutely. Although I didn't have any, because what was funny was that they told me the first day of the piss test, and Mark, you'll appreciate this, they couldn't afford the GC test anymore, so they went to a cup test, which of course as a chemist was just like, oh, this is easy, because the test for false testing was just a temperature test. Oh my God.

43:49Etienne FontanYeah, that seemed to be the only thing that they could do was to go by temperature so that their fear was people just showing up and just pouring other people's stuff in. So as long as body temperature, wow, that's incredible. You could just get away with it. Yeah.

44:07SpeakerSo what's good in the hash world, boys?

44:09BubblemanOh, what's good in the hash world? You know, I mean, well, hash is good. We should probably all have like a rip of something beautiful right now.

44:17SpeakerChris, we were talking about THC acetate last week with Tony. Tony is actually, I think, dinking around in the lab with it. The THCO. THCO. Oh, acetate. Oh, acetate. Tony do synthetic chemistry? Well, I think, actually, didn't Todd have a sample? Didn't Todd have a sample, ATN? Yeah, I gave some to Gil. THCO. It's the Gil that challenged me. I gave some to Todd after that, but yeah, I was dabbing people out yesterday at the cup too.

44:55SpeakerIn fact, it put me to sleep last night pretty damn good. So how do you like it? Oh, I like it. It's just like if you take too much of it, you'll just be in sleepy time mode. Although it seems like 10% of people get almost stimulant effects from it.

45:10Etienne FontanWhat do you think of the longevity of the effect?

45:14SpeakerLike how long it lasts? High. Yeah, pretty long. It takes a little bit to kick in and it's full. Todd said it was a creeper. Yeah, creeper, less body high, sticks around for a little bit. And if you get to like that certain amount, it seems to like really just knock you out, just make you really want to go to sleep. And the sleep you get is long.

45:40SpeakerI mean, I came back from the cup last night. I got back to my house at like 8. I was in my bed by 9. I woke up this morning to your email with the Hash Church link in it. I was like, God damn, I slept like a baby. My eyes were heavy. My joints were all like, you know, full of cannabinoids. Like, there's like that feeling when, I don't know if you guys get it, when you eat a lot of cannabinoids, wake up in the morning, you can almost feel them, you can like stretch them out of your Out of your bloodstream or out of your muscles or something like that is a weird physiological effect that I get from eating it.

46:10SpeakerBut yeah, not eating it rather. Although I did try eating it and kind of like as we, I think actually less potent per gram than THC because I'm pretty sure all of it gets converted into THC which obviously gram per gram leaves you with less THC than you started with because you originally had the acetate. So edibly, I don't think it's very good. Smoking is pretty damn good.

46:30SpeakerI'm going to try like some sublingual tests. And if I can find a volunteer for some rectal tests, I'd probably do that too.

46:38Etienne FontanDo you find the high as an upper cerebral high, or is it very much a heavy, stony, like way past maturity of a plant?

46:52SpeakerI would say both in a sense of it. It's like substantial, and then if you take enough of it, you definitely want to just sit down and sleep. I don't know. Todd, I didn't catch any of last week's hash charts, Todd, but what's your take on the acetate?

47:16MrTHCA or THCO? They're not the same at all. All shatter is THCA. Most everything we dab is THCA. You know, the THCO is an entirely different animal. That was, that's legit, man. That was just amazing. To think that they did that with just adding an oxygen molecule was, blew me away.

47:42SpeakerNo, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

47:44MrGo ahead, break it down, Mark.

47:47SpeakerWell, Break it down.

47:49MrNo, no, hold on. THCA, THC acetate, is not THCAO, okay? And you can actually have THCO that's decarbed, or you can have THCOA that's not decarbed.

48:02SpeakerYeah, yeah. I made that THCO you had, by the way.

48:06MrChris made that, Todd. You did that? Yeah, Chris. Break it down, brother. Come on. Dude, I love that stuff. Go right ahead, right?

48:17SpeakerAll right, awesome. Yeah, well, okay, so basically, chemically, like you said, there's THC-A-O acetate and there's THC acetate. I don't think, you know, I have some of Guild's crystal. I was thinking about trying to do an experiment with the THC-A acetate, but my guess is it just turns into a regular acetate. Acetate upon heating, but yeah, I mean, just basically adding an acetate group to the free hydroxyl group on THC, simple chemistry, but like markedly different effects, yeah?

48:49MrWell, yeah, to say the least. As soon as I, I couldn't even put the, put the rig down and I could feel it, and then it crept, it crept, it crept, and you know, by like a half hour later, man, I was like rediscovering my kitchen. So, what brought you to do it, Chris? I mean, I really... I really was impressed, Chris. I mean, I have smoked a whole lot, you know, and it just seemed so natural.

49:13MrIt didn't have any weird edge. It didn't seem artificial at all. It just seemed like cannabis on wow. So how did you do it? What are you doing? What did you expect for an effect? I didn't realize it was you.

49:26SpeakerIf it was you, I probably would have given you a hug and said, come on, honestly. Well, basically, I just took, you know, I started with clear. You know, high, you know, mid to high 80s batch of clear and basically just do the chemistry on it, treat it with an acetylating agent and I used a nice inorganic base that's not nasty and easy to clean up and basically the reaction runs, turns into THC acetate and then Um, you, you can rinse essentially the reaction mixture with water to break down any of the, uh, the acetic anhydride that stays there, which turns into like acetic acid, so basically you're only using the reaction vinegar, um, and then the final redistilled for, to purify, you know, just to ensure that there are no other, um, no other stuff left, and so...

50:28SpeakerThe product itself is a little bit thin, but that's the whole product. You can purify it by chromatography as well, but it's just a little bit more of a pain in the ass. That was pretty much it, and everyone seems to really appreciate the effects of it. A lot of people try to low-temp dab it like they're going to save the flavor, and I'm just like, just dab it.

50:49SpeakerJust get all of it into your lungs because there's Thank you for watching.

51:12MrIt doesn't, you know, it's not a butter, it's not a shatter, it's not something that's going to make you go, holy wow. What makes you go, holy wow, is when you inhale and then you just feel it. Right? I mean, I didn't say it was you that did it. I knew it was you that did it, Chris, because Brad told me, but I just didn't want to say it on Hashtag, you know?

51:34MrSo I just said, yeah. But it's the effect, really. You're going for it. It's not a flavor. It's not a scent. It's not a taste. It's really, it's, you know, it's like a Mack truck, man. You're trying to get it to move stuff. It's working.

51:48SpeakerYeah, we were mixing it with some of the, like, uh, like, kush rosins, you know, like, we'll do, like, a one-to-one mix on kush rosins, and then you get, like, the whole, you get, like, a nice rosin feel, you get that head pressure, you get the whole thing, and then ten minutes later you go, fuck, was that really the one dab I took? Like, jeez. People were, we put them on some joints yesterday, it seems to handle the combustion of fire well, nothing weird, no weird temperature, no, like, um, no weird taste, no, like, Akrid Flavor.

52:19SpeakerSo, yeah, we're just, I'm like reticent to put it out to like market because I don't really know, A, like what the ramifications would be for it, you know, sort of socially and criminally. So, kind of like.

52:34MrI think that you're being super cool for that because I'm very much an experienced user. And that was, it didn't feel like anything other than cannabis. Please don't, you know, I hope nobody thinks that it felt like I took something different. It didn't. It just felt like cannabis, like wow. And I didn't need another dab, I didn't need another joint. I was just laying back on the couch messaging friends, thinking about food.

53:02MrIt was a great experience, but I can see you being hesitant because that in the hands of an inexperienced person would be like, you know, From zero to the top of the Empire State Building in like 60 seconds.

53:17SpeakerWe were thinking about putting them in vapor cartridges. You could take a puff here, a puff there, a good way of mediating it. But even still, it's like, I don't know, I'm waiting. I'm just kind of passing it around to heads for people who are intrigued.

53:30MrI think it has a serious place with people that have really serious medical issues like chronic pain. Someone that's been traumatized could really have benefit from that because it puts you in a happy place really fast. You know, it isn't puff, puff, puff, it's puff, okay, lay back, isn't the world great, right? What did you feel the first time you did it, Chris?

53:52SpeakerWell, it was like three of us were sitting in the lab, and I was like, well, I'm going to happily guinea pig my own thing. It looked good, it looked clean, and so we kind of dabbed through it, and we kind of looked at each other at first, and, you know, no immediate effect, and then I think about 15 minutes later, one of us wandered off and came back and was like, are you guys really high right now?

54:19SpeakerI was trying to put our finger on it because we smoke all day and stuff, but a distinctive stoniness. Within a half an hour, we were all just like, whoa, what is going on? Sitting around laughing. I think people call it kind of a psychedelic high, and I can see why. Thank you for watching. See you next time.

55:07SpeakerSome like vivid dreaming though and some like of that vivid like pseudo dream state like going to bed but just no body high though. No like I guess no couch lockness other than a standard you know I think like given the level of head high you'd expect at least some body high but for me it was just a body calm rather.

55:32BubblemanHave you done some terpene modulation with it?

55:36SpeakerYeah, so the guys from Guild, we spiked a sample with some sour D terps, and yeah, it tasted good. Unfortunately, I don't know if I can say specifically how those terpenes modulated the THCO, because we had been dabbing all day, but they definitely go well together as far as the product is concerned. The stuff blends well into terps or clear or rosin, so...

56:05BubblemanYeah, even if it did nothing other than give a wicked taste, that would be a plus.

56:10SpeakerYeah, and the thing is it's very easy to flavor the acetate because A, it's thin, and B, it's just got a very, very low flavor threshold, so if you wanted to flavor it, it'd be no problem.

56:21MrYep.

56:24BubblemanVery cool, very cool.

56:26MrI think you made something that's really significant, Chris. I think there's a place for that, especially in situations like hospitals and such where people really need relief really fast, and I think that's great. And it did have a kind of a, not a psychedelic, but just a really feel-good vibe, but it didn't feel like anything other than cannabis.

56:47SpeakerYeah, no, it's definitely got a true, it definitely stays true to the plant. You know, it's not like some molecule now where you're like in La La Land looking at flowers grow or, you know, like trip out. So it's cool to see that modulate. I'm curious about the, I don't know, Mark, do you have any insight as to the different analogs of the, instead of the acetate, like the butanate or the proponate or whatever?

57:12SpeakerYeah, so we talked a little bit about this last week. So, um, Can you hear me? My internet dropped out. Can you guys hear me? I'm on it. I got you. Okay, great. We talked a little bit. The acetate itself is just a prodrug, so the acetate in vivo does get hydrolyzed to release THC, and it takes some time to do that, which explains the reason why there's sort of a delayed onset of activity.

57:38SpeakerFor that reason, you could take any Thank you for joining us.

57:54SpeakerWe put long chain esters there and the long chain esters made them very fat soluble, but also give them a duration of activity because it would take them long before they would undergo hydrolysis. The stuff that didn't have the acetate group would immediately have the activity that you would have with THC, but then THC acetate, which converts to THC in the body, By hydrolysis would then sort of resupply and provide a longer duration of activity.

58:29SpeakerSo it totally makes sense. So the longer chain esters are what El Soli has patented for use in suppositories. And yeah, I mean those longer chain esters certainly add a whole lot of hydrophobic nature to the molecule like it really needed that to begin with. But you could also put a highly crystalline group Thank you for joining us.

59:09SpeakerThank you so much for joining us today.

59:40SpeakerPro drug of the parent compound, which is THC. So if you made the oleate ester, which you would make by reacting it with oleic acid or any one of those long chain fatty acid esters, those would also be... Mark, let me ask you this. I don't know if you have any insight in it. Forgive me for not knowing. Sure. Have they tested the acetate? Specifically for CV1 activity, or is it assumed that only the THC is the active component?

1:00:17SpeakerOr are we looking at a situation where you've got two active components, although one of them is constantly being broken down into the other? Because I wouldn't understand why the dosage, because I can take 100 milligrams of DABS, of THC DABS, and if I take 100 milligrams of THC acetate DABS, I will be substantially more stoned Off of the acetate, so dose-wise, do you think it's just a matter that you're able to maybe absorb more acetate that then turns into THC, or do you think it's a dual...

1:00:50SpeakerI think there's a lot of things going on. I think it also affects the permeability through the blood-brain barrier, although I have no data to support that, and Chimera would blast me for saying such a thing. What you're doing is you are greasing up the vehicle itself so it can slide through the membrane a little bit easier, as opposed to having that hydroxyl group there, which is sometimes tagged for Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:01:16SpeakerWe'll see you next time.

1:01:44SpeakerWe're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

1:02:08SpeakerYou know, like when most chewing gum, after a while, after like five or ten minutes, there's no flavor left. You're basically putting into the same system, which is your oral mucosa, where you're taking in all your dabs now, a fat-soluble sort of reservoir of THC that will slowly, slowly release over time. So I don't really know. I mean, I think that I'm not sure that the pharmacodynamics or pharmacokinetics We're going to talk a little bit about the different types of acetates.

1:02:41SpeakerI know that in El Soli's paper, he does make the acetate almost just as a reference compound. In his paper, the point of his paper is he wanted to put all kinds of different groups out there to look at their affinity in the CB1 receptor. I think it's known just as a reference compound in that study. Jay Natural Products paper from about 2008 and I could look in my bibliography real quick and try to find that paper if you're interested.

1:03:21SpeakerYes, just shoot me an email or something like that would be fine. Yeah, the fact that you're distilling it again, I mean you're getting it away from any of the bad byproducts that could be formed but it's also the notion that You know, if there's linalool, and if you're making this from clear, I mean, you don't have to worry about it, but if there's linalool in there, or if there's other compounds that have hydroxy groups, when you treat with acetic anhydride, you're also going to be making those acetates, right?

1:03:52SpeakerSo linalool acetate. Now, linalool acetate, I don't think is thermally stable. I think it rearranges to other terpenes. But you can think that, again, THC acetate is an interesting, interesting paradigm of taking the plant, taking the oil that the plant provides and the chemicals that the plant provides and doing chemistry to it to make derivatives. And it's not like the synthetic, you know, cannabis like spice and all that.

1:04:24SpeakerBut it's basically, it's taking, taking the molecules themselves and looking to do chemistry On the molecules to improve them, and THC acetate, I think, is a superior example of that. Why not, you don't need to do it to the clear, do it on the extract itself. Why not do the extraction with acetic anhydride? Well, that's what I was thinking about, you know, to discuss with people, is that there's a distinction between...

1:04:53SpeakerAcetylated whole plant oil versus acetylated individual compound. Obviously by starting with clear I'm trying to avoid any other side reactions and stuff like that just for the sake of keeping it simple. But obviously that's something that's very interesting. And what's the effect of the THC, the cannabinoid acids being... Acetylated. Sterically, it's probably kind of tight in there, but I don't know. I think they're extremely reactive. So what happens, Chris, is they first make a mixed acetate so that the carboxylic acid, I was wondering about that.

1:05:29SpeakerMakes a mixed acetate, and then bam, it's all over. That thing's going to decarboxylate almost spontaneously because now you've made it into a really, really good leaving group. So I think that that's immediately going to be decarboxylated. But I'm going to go back to, again, the ensemble effect, as we like to call it here on church. So if the cannabis plant teaches us anything, it teaches us that the activity just isn't in the one molecule itself.

1:05:59SpeakerIt's in the plethora of molecules and how they interact with each other and how they interact with the human body. So again, it's the notion of can you take We're going to take the chemistry, which is acetylation, that's just a reaction, take the plant, modify the oil, and take all the chemicals through that, and the flavonoids will now be Yeah, by making that a good leaving group, yeah, you can, all those rearrangements can now happen a lot easier, yeah?

1:06:46SpeakerWell, and if you think about it, I mean, it's kind of like, it's like pyrethrum. Everyone knows what pyrethrum is. Pyrethrum is the naturally occurring plant extract that is insecticidal. And it actually contains pyrethrum, the molecule itself, but it was actually the pyrethroids, which were analogs of pyrethrum, which created essentially a $10 billion... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:07:39SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:08:03SpeakerWe're the first people to come in and hydrogenate the oil. The oil has all kinds of double bonds. When we hydrogenate it, there's still cannabinoids. We take the tetrahydrocannabinoids and convert them to hexahydrocannabinoids, and we still see activity. This is the point of being able to do chemistry to the oil to be able to come up with new and interesting compositions. Where's that ACS meeting, Mark? It's in Philadelphia.

1:08:35SpeakerIt's not the cannabis subchapter one, is it? Yeah, it's actually speaking at the cannabis subchapters. Yeah, they're having one session on agrochemicals and cannabis and one on the biochemistry of cannabis. Very cool. Maybe I'll come out for that. As a chemist, I want you to appreciate this, Mark. I've got this Sacha Shulgin signed filter.

1:09:03BubblemanYeah, I appreciate that.

1:09:08SpeakerYeah, there was a MAPS auction for, I think, I know Rick was on that week a few weeks ago. Rick Doblin was on a few weeks ago. And I think, I guess the proceeds went to that kilo of MDMA that they were making for that study. That was pretty cool. Shout out to MAPS.

1:09:27BubblemanI love that you came on Hashtag where you talked about raising money for a kilo of MDMA.

1:09:33SpeakerSo did they actually make that? They made the kilo? I don't know. I think so. I think they're in the process of it. When I found out how much the price was to make it, I was like, shit, they should have called me. Or Mark. A million bucks to make a kilo of anything is crazy. Yeah, if you have the lab and everything to do it, I mean...

1:09:54SpeakerActually, it shouldn't take a million bucks to do it. Chemistry is really not that difficult. No. This isn't novel chemistry either.

1:10:03BubblemanI think it's permission is also a big part of it.

1:10:07SpeakerOh, yes. That costs a penny or two.

1:10:12BubblemanYeah, that's worth a few bucks. Hey, welcome, Johnny B and D420K. Thanks, brother.

1:10:20SpeakerHow are you today? I feel good. My thoughts to all the people who are out in San Bernardino sweating their asses off. It was 113 degrees yesterday. Only the diehards are going out there to smoke ash. That is way too hot for my rosin. It will melt. And good morning, everybody. Hey, good morning, brother.

1:10:40Etienne FontanHey, Johnny. Yeah, that sounds way too hot. At least Chalice, I have to say, the location that they ended up in was a lot cooler because that blacktop there in San Bernardino is just brutal.

1:10:56BubblemanYou could kill it, though. I was in, I think it was Berlin one year in the late 90s or early 2000s for a cannabis, some cannabis thing. I don't know if it was Cannabisness or Canna Trade or whatever the name was, but it was a can of something. It was so hot, and it was so hot in this building that these dudes who had no cannabis products whatsoever, they had this shitty little bottle that you put water in and then on the top it was a fan with like a little battery.

1:11:27BubblemanJust blue and you could squirt water while you were making the fan go. And if these guys didn't sell out on the first day of the show, like bags and bags of these fucking things, to all the people who were there working, it was the most brilliant thing I've ever seen done at a conference. I just couldn't believe it. So if you are going down to San Bernardino and you have bags and bags of those fan water squirters, you are going to do good.

1:11:56SpeakerCan I do a shout out for a bong rip to the mother lovers out there, everybody? Of course. Johnny, can you teleport up this way from your dad's and join me in my fucking office for a bong rip? I'm like in the garage over here in this little corner.

1:12:14KeokiI can't even smoke here. It's ridiculous.

1:12:16SpeakerWhy? Well, yeah, I'm helping out dad, right? So I had my little hash pipe and I was in the truck and the people come around back and I'm like, so I'm trying to like get in hash church. Dude, get in the teleporter and get over here for a rip. I'm coming up. I'm having one right now. You're next in line. All right. I'm going to go get my hash pipe.

1:12:41BubblemanGo get your hash pipe.

1:12:43SpeakerI'm going to open up this door right here. Don't do it, Johnny. Don't do it. Don't smoke your dad's house. I got caught at my dad's. We all heard about that story on Hash Church. Remember?

1:13:03BubblemanMy dad was here for it. My dad always invited me to smoke and allowed me, gave me a room, made sure I had a space for my stuff. Good papi.

1:13:19BubblemanSo yeah, I was enjoying that conversation that Mark and Chris were having in regards to the chemistry of the plant. Very interesting, interesting, interesting conversation. I look forward to trying it. You know, it's one thing to say, yeah, you know, we've got to worry about things entering the marketplace, but at the same time, I'm not sure whose mic is making that sound. Yep, I think so.

1:13:46Etienne FontanThere we go.

1:13:49BubblemanBut what I was going to say, what I was going to say, oh look, Johnny teleported over to D420Ks.

1:13:54Etienne FontanGreat teleportation.

1:13:56SpeakerIt's awesome. Fucking Abbotsford to Prince George in a blink of a fucking eye. Hope. Pow. Pow. I want a hash pipe. Long rep, mother lovers. Go ahead. Awesome. Hash pipe.

1:14:08Etienne FontanAll right. So THC and water, and now John can teleport. Amazing Sunday here. All we need is to walk on that THC water and we're good. It's awesome.

1:14:20BubblemanWell, we better also welcome Keoki into the room here. How are you guys doing?

1:14:27KeokiPretty good. How about yourself?

1:14:28BubblemanHow are you all doing? We're doing pretty good, man. You guys got to tell us a little bit about where you're at and what you kept up to for the room and pastures. I don't have it written in front of me, and I can't remember exactly.

1:14:41SpeakerSo we're at a place called Chipper Gardens. We're a recreational 502 out here, Tier 3. We're a very small four-man crew. We're running this place like a conventional agricultural farm and less like a farm.

1:14:55SpeakerPesticide-ridden joke of a large-scale medical operation. But one of the things we're doing here is focusing a lot on CBD production and sustainable agriculture. Kiyoki's our extract guy, so he has the most interest in that.

1:15:10BubblemanSo did you say you're recreational? Yeah, absolutely. And do people use CBD as a recreational substance?

1:15:18KeokiThey're kind of getting over to it now in Washington because the medical and recreational are now colliding. So all the medical users have to go, are forced to go to these recreational shops or through the black market to obtain their medicine. So a lot of the medical people are educating the recreational customers and the recreational bud tenders, and now the bud tenders can get medically certified to serve medical patients.

1:15:42KeokiI think at the sales it's a tax break or something.

1:15:45SpeakerYeah, 10% tax break for medical patients.

1:15:47BubblemanYeah, I don't understand Washington that much. I remember Jeff Church talking about it, and I guess Mike West has come in and talked about it. It just seems, and then I saw a lot of people posting recently about the death of like your last, It's not that great.

1:16:02SpeakerYeah, it killed medical, and like a lot of us were forced to either find a place or just get shut down. I mean a lot, I shut down my private gardens. It was kind of, it got really weird out here, and it seems like, Thank you for watching.

1:16:33SpeakerAlien Technology three weeks ago or something.

1:16:36BubblemanIs it still the same there where if you grow it, you can't process it? If you process it, you can't sell it? We are a producer-processor.

1:16:45KeokiThere's three licenses. There's a producer, processor, and retailer. And I heard starting July, they just opened up a distributor's license that you can add on to your producer-processor license. And do they have...

1:16:56BubblemanEach one of those?

1:16:58KeokiIt used to be a 25% tax at all three, so the government made a 75% tax, but now it's a 37.5% tax at the retailer, plus a 9% sales tax.

1:17:10Bubbleman37.5? What the fuck?

1:17:12SpeakerOh yeah, so like we sell a bud for like $2.50 a gram, and at first the customer was buying it for like $14 out the door. You know, and they were like, what's with these greedy growers? And we were like, wait a minute, I think we just, that was like a $2 bud. I don't know how that happened.

1:17:30BubblemanThat is unbelievable that they can tax it on that kind of a level. Almost 40%.

1:17:34KeokiYeah, so to date, there's a website called 502data.com that shows every single penny that every single producer, processor, or retailer has made to date and every month that they've made it and the tax revenue that Washington State has generated from this 502. And, uh, So far, 502 sales is just under like 50 million under a billion dollars. Jesus. Just in Washington.

1:17:59Bubbleman50 million under a billion.

1:18:02KeokiYeah.

1:18:03BubblemanThat's the new best pot shirt right there.

1:18:05SpeakerYeah. Not everyone's doing it right. You know, like the industry is evolving every day. We have like a zero tolerance policy for any kind of spray or product. It's really cleaning up the act of a bunch of farms, but I think we still have a lot of growing, obviously. We're way off from where someone harvesting corn would be. We're in the dark ages. Yeah, definitely.

1:18:29BubblemanSo you guys grow it and you process it.

1:18:33KeokiCorrect.

1:18:34BubblemanAnd how are you guys processing it?

1:18:36KeokiSo right now we just make, we package buds, and I'm the extraction team. I do butane extractions in our lab. There's just, so we have BHO and flour, and that's it right now.

1:18:50BubblemanSo they don't allow you to, did you say they don't allow you to spray chemicals, like they're forcing it to be...

1:18:56SpeakerZero pesticides, yeah, pretty much, you're allowed like neem derivatives, we're allowed... A few good things, but more, I mean, scarily enough, every day there's products that we would have thought were safe are determining to have, you know, they're having residual pesticides in them. I mean, a lot of companies are getting the heat for just blatantly relying on what's in the chemical composition of their product. And then people who spray it are knowing they can get deemed for it.

1:19:24SpeakerWow. You're talking about Guardian, obviously. Not just, yeah, not just Guardian. There's a few others. I mean, MPK and just anyone who was messing around with that stupid Mighty Wash stuff, I mean, they just got nailed too. That stuff was a joke always, but now it's like a really good joke. So what's the name of the other product? I mean, Mighty Wash, I think. I mean, I think Jeff Church, you mentioned, he posted a funny thing once and there's like all the stuff that's approved and not approved.

1:19:49SpeakerAnd I mean, they approve more stuff every day. It's the Washington Pico list, but… I mean, a lot of that stuff's banned for a reason, I think. I mean, I'm too naive. I've never been smoking. I haven't been smoking marijuana with pesticides for a long enough period, you know, like 100 years or something, to say what the long-term effect is. But I can say that overall, it's probably good that they got rid of a lot of nonsense.

1:20:10BubblemanIt's probably not a bad idea. I like the idea of the food that I consume to not have pesticides in them, and that goes into my stomach, which is probably better able to deal with pesticides than stay my lungs after they've been exhausted.

1:20:25SpeakerI'd like to believe so, too. Yeah, definitely. I was going to ask what you have approved for spraying, if there is anything approved. You said a few products that they've... They're batting and stuff like that. What is out there exactly? It's a cool cat, man. I think, well, we basically spray hardly anything. I mean, really, it's, like I said, just some meme derivatives, only in the bedroom.

1:20:47SpeakerWe also found that a lot of the stuff we are spraying, I mean, we have to have heavily scrutinized tests, so the flowers get tested once or twice, and then when we make the oil, it gets tested, so the more stuff we spray just ends up coming in the back end, and we'll end up finding it in the extracts. I mean, it's just kind of common sense.

1:21:04SpeakerYou know, the better you get at pulling everything off of those flowers, the better you get at finding everything you sprayed on the flowers. See, that was the thing with me. I'm a hash maker, and of course, on my last little video I was doing, I cut down my whole garden because I had bugs and I didn't want to spray in the flower. So a lot of people are saying, well, what do you do, right?

1:21:23SpeakerSo, I mean, I didn't spray. I cut the whole thing down because that's what we should do as in gardeners and farmers. But a lot of people, if they're relying on it as a medicine and they can't afford to cut it down, they're going to lose it. I mean, what are the steps that we can take to assure? I mean, I'm going to get into like tape, pull off bugs, stuff like that because we're not spraying on it.

1:21:43SpeakerBut is there any suggestions that you guys see or what you've been using if you do come across these type of problems that you can do or are you doing anything or are you just destroying your plants and starting over again? Some gets destroyed. There is a quality control level, but I see that there's going to be availability for really good inventors in the future of cannabis because every other vegetable would go on some type of process.

1:22:07SpeakerIt's on a belt. It's getting sprayed with something to clean it. We're growing all these plants on hoop house just right outside in full sun, and they're going to catch everything. They're going to catch soil particles, let alone bugs. They're outside in the sun. Again, we're To think that they'd be clean and sterile is really silly. But I think in the future we'll have different sanitary solutions.

1:22:29SpeakerRight now we worked with a lab called Confidence and they're suggesting just washing everything with hydrogen peroxide. I don't know how we really feel about that, but I'm sure there's like, I mean I like cleaning the counters and all the watering bins with it, but I don't know if, that's what Big 502 is looking at now. They're telling people to Implement some type of microwave sequence or like some kind of sterilization process.

1:22:55SpeakerAnd it's kind of like they're telling all the owners if you don't start implementing your own version of the sterilization process, you're never going to pass these microbials. And we're finding that it's kind of 50-50. A clean garden always is going to have less microbials every time. Healthy plants will ward themselves off of most pests. You end up getting like, by growing a healthier, clean garden, you'll have less pests just inadvertently because your plants are so strong.

1:23:17SpeakerBut again, if there's times when you do notice pests, it's just a tough call. It depends like, maybe no water hash, especially if you see stuff like root aphids and all kinds of fun. Maybe avoid those kinds of things.

1:23:32BubblemanWell, that's interesting. It's crazy how often shit changes in Washington. It just seems pretty much never ending that you hear about another thing in Washington, how they're flipping it and changing it and making it different. And now you guys are even saying they're trying to do more different and changes in the near future. That's just... It'd be nice if they just put something... It's just cannabis. It's pretty simple stuff.

1:23:55BubblemanIt's an agricultural product, so just... You know, treat it as such. We don't even have the home grow yet.

1:24:02SpeakerWe don't have the option as a regular person to grow any amount of cannabis. It's still very, very sketchy.

1:24:09BubblemanTrust me, if there's a thing that comes up for Washington that allows everyone just to have six plants, people will fight it tooth and nail. No apparent reason, so I'm not sure. I'm just up in Canada watching it all happen. It doesn't really affect me in the same way as it does the people that are living there, but... I feel for it, you know, and even, yeah, California, Washington, Colorado, all these different states with all these different laws.

1:24:37BubblemanHopefully the federal government at one point just, you know, decriminalizes it or gets it off the schedule and it can go to a thing that is not so... I kind of have a feeling they'll never really let it go. You know, it's like...

1:24:51SpeakerThey'll wait until every state individually does it and then they'll still fight it for a few more years and then they'll let it go.

1:24:57BubblemanIt's kind of unbelievable how hard they're still fighting it. When you really think if they embraced it, it would happen everything, like tomorrow.

1:25:08SpeakerIt would just be... Oh, yeah, landslide. And then, I mean... But right now I heard in Florida they just passed some new laws where you have to, I mean it's CBD only and then eventually they're going to have like a stronger THC plant available. There's a lot of misconceptions around the plant too. I mean even just growing the dang thing, there's a billion ways to do it and you'll have people like swear to their grave that they can grow.

1:25:30SpeakerI mean there's just so many misconceptions about it and like I said, we've been farmers for a long time as a human species. It's Now that cannabis is legal, everyone's acting really confused as to what they should do. It's still just a plant. Everyone says that, but I wish we could take you guys out. You could see the CBD field. It's just a big, they're just plants.

1:25:48SpeakerIt's a big old boring, there's really good soil. They're in berms. There's plants.

1:25:54MrCan I ask you a question, though? Of course. You guys keep saying it killed the medical, but the unfortunate part of it is people still have cancer. People are still sick. It didn't kill disease. And it didn't kill people's access to medical cannabis at all. It just also created access to people that don't have cancer or AIDS or other medical conditions that are seeking the necessity from their doctor.

1:26:20MrSo I went into one of these dual clubs that had medical and Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:26:48KeokiThank you for watching.

1:27:09KeokiThank you for joining us today.

1:27:29SpeakerAnother like search or something. We have to have another inspection before that weed has now entered the medical level, which in a way is better, but I just don't know if I understand all the laws myself.

1:27:40KeokiI know in the past it also changed our testing lot sizes. So, for example, we have to send out four grams for every five pound lot size that we have for quality control. If we decide to get into medical, I believe it was now like five grams for every three pound lot. So it's just more expensive. It's like a hundred dollar test every time for us.

1:27:59MrOkay, so can I, so not only did it not necessarily kill medical at all, it actually created a situation where if you are legitimately medical, you pay less than somebody who is not medical, and the cannabis that is sold as medical has higher scrutiny.

1:28:18SpeakerYeah, that's to my understanding right now.

1:28:20MrSo it's made it better for patients in the sense that they're paying less than recreational or adult use users, and the cannabis that they're using is most likely more Less to be found with contamination than anything else. So why do you say it killed medical? Because we're fighting for legalization in California and hearing people use such a negative misnomer when in fact it's making a cleaner product that's cheaper for patients available.

1:28:49MrKilled is really not a good word.

1:28:51SpeakerNo, I think killing medical is more of a... Up here it's more of like a joke because a lot of people considered the medical industry to be really dirty, unregulated, and kind of black market. And there's a bunch of people here who did it right. Don't get me wrong. That's an overgeneralization. But there's still open blasting going on. So it killed open blasting. That should be a better way to say it.

1:29:12SpeakerIt killed canned butane, and it killed someone being able to smoke a flower that hasn't been tested twice.

1:29:19MrIn some ways, though, it hasn't killed that because the whole black market existed during Prohibition. And now that they're not arresting us, it still exists whether we like to acknowledge it or not. But it's made an avenue available of absolutely clean medicine that you can pay taxes on, you don't have to worry about getting arrested for, and if you are a medical and you're using it, you're not going to get something that has mold or pesticides or anything else on it.

1:29:48SpeakerYeah, it just essentially avoided all of our paperwork that let us have our lights on in our basement. I mean, I turned off my lights when the Medical Act, because it's my paperwork expired. And I suppose I can, they made it harder for people to go and get, review their paperwork. I think it's just legislation. I don't, I'd be more worried about who's backing the law in California.

1:30:08SpeakerI heard that Monsanto is a really big contributor to the... That's the stupidest shit.

1:30:13MrDon't even repeat that. That is the dumbest... Dude, Sean Parker supposedly put up the money. He was, what, president of Facebook for a minute? He owned 2%. Walked away with like a billion dollars. I mean, I only wish there was more conscious billionaires trying to legalize weed in the world because we would have been in a better place 20 years ago. You know, some of the words you use are offensive to me, like trying to say Monsanto when there's no fucking at all.

1:30:38MrThere's nothing that connects Monsanto to Adult Use of Marijuana Act. There's nothing that killed medical marijuana in Washington. And really, the way we talk is important because the words we use are powerful. And when you use words that are absolutely incorrect, that are misleading, and you say things like, oh yeah, I hear Monsanto. Yeah, and I hear a pig flew around the moon, but that's as much bullshit as your Monsanto comment.

1:31:03MrThey are not putting money into legalizing weed. They, like all of the other assholes, are making tons of money off of it being illegal. That's the truth, because they're shoving all their other GMO shit and stuff down our throats, and we don't have a chance to use cannabis as an environmental equal to their crap. Until it's legal. So, you know, stop with the scare tactics. I find it offensive.

1:31:25MrBut I think what you're doing is great. I'm glad you guys are part of that whole legal scene. It's awesome to look at almost, what, $15 shy of a billion and think nobody went to jail? A billion dollars in cannabis commerce and neither of you guys are talking to me collect from a jail?

1:31:41KeokiYep.

1:31:41MrThat's awesome.

1:31:42KeokiYeah, I feel very fortunate for where I'm at, for where I'm able to be. I had a medical extraction company for three years. That's what I did previous to this. And I saw an opportunity to get in a taxed income from doing what I love to do and expand my knowledge from there. So that's what I'm doing.

1:32:03MrI think it's awesome. I think what you guys are doing is the future.

1:32:07BubblemanReally, it is. Did you say that people are no longer allowed to grow their own plants?

1:32:13KeokiNot recreationally. If you're 21 and over, without a medical authorization, you wouldn't be allowed to legally grow your own plants. But if you had a medical authorization, you're allowed up to 15, depending on your authorization.

1:32:25BubblemanSo it could get a little bit better, but it's still not so, so bad.

1:32:29KeokiCorrect. They're trying to force everything under a traceability system so they can account for every single gram sold specifically because they've made the laws so anyone under 21 that gets caught with this marijuana could get like your package has a barcode on it that can be traced to the store it was sold to, the bud tender that sold it, the farm it was grown, the seed it came from.

1:32:51KeokiSo they want to know if this underage kid where he's getting his weed from and who sold it to him, you know.

1:32:56MrBut isn't that what we have for food? If they make, if you eat a brownie that you get at the supermarket and that stuff makes you sick, can't they track it right down to the plant and the batch?

1:33:07Etienne FontanIt's accountability, right. They're just like ISO 9000, you know, specs. That's all you're meeting there. And that's interesting because adults can't grow over 21, but California, actually Prop 64 will allow you to, every adult will be able to grow six plants. So there's a difference right there in California and Washington.

1:33:28MrAnd it's a huge difference. A lot of the people that opposed I-502 used that as an example of why they didn't want to support it. But, you know, once the law changed and we're looking at almost a billion dollars in legal revenue happening in Washington, I think that's a glorious thing. I'm sick of seeing my friends and my friends' families and brothers and sisters getting busted, going to jail, and us paying an excessive prohibition tax for nothing.

1:33:53MrAnd, you know what? I don't mind paying taxes on something that costs one one hundredth of what it used to cost. And if the prices keep dropping and this passes off to the end user, that only helps patients, man. If you really want to talk about medical cannabis, man, getting it into the hands of people clean and cheap would help them more than anything. Flood the market with good, clean, quality cannabis.

1:34:18MrThat would make the world a better place.

1:34:21KeokiI agree 100%.

1:34:24BubblemanHow much cannabis are you guys growing over there, if we may ask?

1:34:28SpeakerLike around 125 pounds a month. Acres or something? Like a half an acre? Like an acre and a half, I think.

1:34:36KeokiWe are allowed as a tier three producer processor up to 30,000 square feet of canopy. Oh, okay. So what's an acre? Like 58,000 or something?

1:34:48SpeakerYeah, I think so. Oh, I'm not even sure. I don't know. We just have like, they don't really, I was told they would actually come and check our canopy with measurements, but we have it kind of, we have it marked out in the fields where we don't want to exceed. And I mean, essentially, 30,000 square feet is a large canopy. I mean, it's way large to manage.

1:35:08SpeakerIt's kind of hard. There's only three or four of us here.

1:35:11KeokiYeah, we're doing it really bare bones. A lot of really small crew. There's a lot of tier threes out there that have 30, 50 employees.

1:35:21MrVery impressive what you guys are doing, man. I think it's totally cool. I really do. How much experience did you guys have growing cannabis before you became a legal producer?

1:35:32SpeakerI was in ornamental farming for a long time. I grew up around nurseries and I was helping people grow large scale cucumbers and tomato farms while also having my, maybe like, I mean the short answer, maybe like 12 years with cannabis, but 20 something years with large scale agriculture.

1:35:50KeokiI grew cannabis for about seven or eight years. Medically, I went down to Portland, Sudan University. Shout out to Stoney Girl Seed Gardens and learned about the industry from there. Started my own extraction company and then kind of just went over to extracting from growing because everybody was so good at growing anyways. I feel the same way.

1:36:17MrAnd you know what, I don't want to sound rude or anything, but I think that with licensed, regulated facilities making BHO, it's a lot safer than, you know, kids in their, you know, mom's bathrooms trying to blast open. So I think it's a good thing that they're letting you guys make clean medicine using the tools, you know, 21st century hash to me is a very good thing, so.

1:36:39KeokiI agree. Speaking of clean medicine, we actually, during our last extractions, I figured out a way, or I'm not sure if I figured out a way, but there was a way that in our collection pot, we're actually separating terpenes from like crystal, and we actually have been pulling like a THC crystalline structure out of our collection pot from our butane straight and butane extractions. I don't know if I can get a good shot of this, but there's some crystals in the bottom of here.

1:37:09BubblemanCrystalized.

1:37:13KeokiAnd our terpenes we got tested from the butane extraction are actually 21.4% terpenes and the testing facility said they've never seen anything like that. They had to test it four times to make sure it was correct.

1:37:26BubblemanIt's always nice when the lab has to test things multiple times.

1:37:35SpeakerWe had a lab shut down, like the first lab we were using got shut down because I guess they never failed a bud sample for microbials and we didn't even know that so we kept passing tests and having no idea and then all of a sudden we got a letter from the LCB saying that apparently the lab we were using hasn't failed anyone on a test and why would they because it's better business to not fail microbials so now all of our labs are getting better and better and better.

1:38:04SpeakerWe're seeing a It's all cool. The lab reports are now like stapled packets instead of just a flat piece of paper that says, you know, 21% THC and a thumbs up.

1:38:15Etienne FontanBut it sounds like there was a learning curve and it sounds like it was significant. It wasn't necessarily minor. So did you educate them along the way or did they educate you along the way or you just relied on the state's feedback to tell you what you had to do?

1:38:31SpeakerA little bit of both actually because some of the first generation labs They would come and tell us that they were in between two different technologies, 3M, Petri Film, and whatever they were. I'm not, I mean, I don't want to sound like I know more than I do, but essentially... They were showing us a lot of cool things that we can help for, you know, cross-contamination purposes.

1:38:51SpeakerThey're just showing us really clean lab practices. And in return, we were showing, I mean, like, I know we've sent out R&D samples that did have mold just to see what our labs would tell us in return, but they knew it before we sent out the sample that these were contaminated. So it was kind of, the whole thing's a big learning curve for everyone, I'd like to believe it's a.

1:39:10Etienne FontanWell, we're getting ready to experience that here in California, so we're just looking at what other people are doing. And so it's interesting to see and hear you earlier state how, you know, you're now having to look at how you have to contaminate your own cannabis now by your own, you know, volition before the state actually gets a hold of it. So you're constantly adapting to the situation as these regulations either continue control or, you know... Mm-hmm.

1:39:40BubblemanHey, welcome to Jeff Church. Welcome to Phil. Good morning.

1:39:46SpeakerWelcome back, John. Phil, Phil tried the teleporter, and I can't believe how well we're going to get you up here too, Mark. Got him up there.

1:39:59BubblemanI can tell because he's on your computer.

1:40:01SpeakerI can tell because he's on your computer.

1:40:05BubblemanAnd echoing. And echoing, yes. Here, we'll mute Phil real quick. There you go. Got rid of that really quick.

1:40:13Etienne FontanHi, Jeff. How are you doing? Where are you in the world nowadays?

1:40:16SpeakerOh, I'm up here in Washington State still, you know, just enjoying a little bit of vacation here after medical has ended here for unregulated processing, so... Finished up on the 30th of July and now just waiting to get into the recreational market.

1:40:35BubblemanSo that's all that really actually changed is that unregulated processing is...

1:40:42SpeakerWell, you know, there's a number of things that have changed. There's, you know, prior to July 1st, there was no sales tax and there was no excise tax on medical cannabis. So basically you could, with a medical authorization or with a stack of medical authorizations that you put together, you could cultivate cannabis and process cannabis and you could distribute that to medical cannabis patients and there was no tax.

1:41:10SpeakerSo really, you know, like Ma and Pa were able to have their processing, they were able to have their grow, and they were able to distribute that to the patients. And what has changed on July 1st is that is no longer the case, you know, unless you had prior to, like, I guess it was back in... Thank you for watching.

1:41:49SpeakerIt's definitely changed a lot, and that's that a lot of the people that previously had jobs in the industry had built their own businesses. They can't do that anymore. And you've got a 37% tax. It's effective 58% when you really add it up. If the retailer wants a dollar, they've got to charge $1.58 to get that dollar.

1:42:17SpeakerAnd so there's really, you know, 58 cents for every dollar that the retailer gets is going to the state now. So that's really the big difference. You know, when people say it killed medical, it killed the ability for you to have a large grow without a license.

1:42:35MrIt also killed your ability to spread moldy butt around and pesticides-laden flowers and everything else that sucked. In some ways, I have very mixed feelings about my sorrow for that loss because really, aren't we all sick of spending money and getting moldy pot or buying grams of dabs and having it have pesticides in it that we don't even know about? I mean, I like that there's guys like this that we can trust that are making clean, quality medicine.

1:43:04MrYou know, maybe their profitability isn't as much as it used to be. Maybe they actually have to work a full day's work to make a full day's wages, but they're kicking it. They're kicking out clean pot. They're kicking it out. They're making money. I think that's better than the old system, to be honest.

1:43:20SpeakerI think it's very similar to the old system, is really what it is, you know, except for there's this regulation process. And, you know, I wouldn't say, hey, you know, we've got clean, pesticide-free cannabis now in Washington State because of this law changing for medical use. There isn't really that much cannabis that goes through a pesticide testing here in Washington State yet. If you want to sell it as medical grade cannabis, you can, but I don't know of any medical grade cannabis that's actually on the market and available to the consumers yet.

1:43:59SpeakerAll the cannabis that's available is recreational cannabis, and instead of Having on top of your 37% tax that the state gets, the excise tax they get from the retailers, recreational consumers pay a 10% sales tax on top of that. And if you register with the state and you're a medical patient, you get that 10% sales tax taken off. So basically it's a 10% tax break on recreational cannabis at this point.

1:44:32SpeakerAnd we've actually had quite a bit of an expose up here where a group went out and tested four pesticides, a bunch of cannabis in Washington, all recreational cannabis. And it was shown to have high levels of pesticides that are not supposed to be used. And high levels of pesticides that are allowable but could possibly be dangerous. So I would say the pesticide use is probably the same, if not greater.

1:45:02SpeakerYou know, you've got a really expensive crop and people are producing it for very, very cheap. And so these recreational and medical, I guess you could call them now, producers have a lot to lose. So there's still a lot of pesticide use happening.

1:45:20MrI totally agree with you completely. And I want to also say that there's always been good, clean bud in Washington. There's been a lot of very conscious, organic, good growers. But we have also been played with people that are not as conscious, that are in it for a buck, that don't want to get tested, that just want to make money. They're not willing to throw away anything if it goes bad.

1:45:41MrThey just want to maximize their profits, minimize the amount of work and the amount of money they put into it. And that's what a lot of the cannabis market has become, a race to the bottom. And it sucked. And when we eat food and we go to restaurants, we expect that that food is clean. We expect that if it makes us sick, we can track down why it made us sick.

1:46:01MrWe expect that regulation. And we as cannabis consumers don't get that protection. And when people are like, oh, I can't believe you're against small farms. No, I'm against product safety. I'm against products being unsafe. I am for product safety. I'm for regulation. I'm for our cannabis being treated like our food.

1:46:19SpeakerYou know, it's an evolution right now. You know, we are working towards a much better system. You know, having it regulated is definitely going to, you know, stop all of these shortcuts that growers have been taking over the years and putting poison onto our plants to get a product out and get that dollar to, you know, to their pocketbook. So it's definitely a great step. It's a hard step, you know.

1:46:43SpeakerI mean, when you take away the jobs of a lot of people overnight, it's a tough thing to do.

1:46:49MrIt's not true. We're giving jobs to other people. That billion dollars went to infrastructure, went to people building those greenhouses, went to people selling that equipment, went to people manning those jobs, doing that labor, cleaning that bud, testing that bud. Dude, that money didn't just disappear into the thin air and go to fucking Monsanto. It went into the pockets of people that are working their ass off in the cannabis industry.

1:47:10MrIt didn't displace anybody. It just put a situation where it Thank you for watching.

1:47:33MrYou can still maintain cannabis growing as a hobby. It's just that the plants you grow aren't going to be worth shit like they used to be. So you can't spend a little time in your backyard as a hobbyist grower, take that out and go buy a new car. That is over. You know what I mean? But you can still grow pot. It's like tomatoes. Those tomatoes won't be worth shit because Whole Foods has got them cheaper, but you can still grow a perfect tomato.

1:47:58SpeakerYeah, so that's the other really... And with this medical in a way, I guess, you know, 50-52 is really a state bill. 50-52 is what did this. It was the mechanism. And so 50-52 removed the ability for you to just grow 15 plants unlicensed if you have a medical authorization. So basically, you never had to register here in Washington State. There wasn't a registration process for medical patients.

1:48:27SpeakerAnd now 50-52 put in a registration process And said if you don't register, you can only grow four plants. And so you have to have your medical authorization still. And the only thing that you get is an affirmative defense against prosecution. There is no arrest protection. They can still come in and cut your plants down. All of this can still happen, kind of like it had been forever here in Washington.

1:48:57SpeakerBut Thank you so much for joining us.

1:49:15SpeakerYou're allowed to grow six no matter what if you register in Washington State as a patient. So I think it's all change and what we really need to do is fight for everybody to have the right to grow four plants. If you're 21 years and up, you can grow your four plants recreationally and the ability to share. So I can grow an ounce and you can grow a different ounce and we can trade ounces.

1:49:43MrWhy did you say only four plants though? That's horrible.

1:49:46SpeakerYou make me want to cringe. Yeah, it is horrible. That's what 5052 put in there. So four plants. If you don't want to register your medical marijuana card with the retail stores, so basically what you do is you go to the doctor, you get two pieces of paper, you take those two pieces of paper down to a pot shop, You know, a recreational pot shop that has a medical marijuana endorsement.

1:50:14SpeakerThey're allowed to take your paperwork And enter the information into a database and then they issue you a card that gives you the right to get that sales tax that's like that final consumer tax that's put on there. You don't have to pay that. You're allowed to buy a little bit more cannabis. I believe it's three ounces rather than two ounces. You're allowed to get edibles that are a little bit stronger once you've registered.

1:50:44SpeakerThere's a few perks but it's really not much. But if you don't register, it's four plants, and that's all you're allowed to do. And here in Washington, four plants isn't like it is down in California. Four plants in California, you could probably get by on that, you know? I mean, you can grow some big plants in California.

1:51:03MrCan I just put this out there, though? You know, this has been a struggle for a lot of us for decades, and I don't know why people think that it's over at all until we have full freedoms. I mean, I don't want to just win this election and then call it a day. I mean, I felt that about medical cannabis when it passed 20 years ago. I thought that 2015 was shit.

1:51:24MrIt didn't go far enough. It didn't legalize the freedoms that we were fighting for. It was a step in the right direction. But Jack Carrow was adamantly opposed to Dennis' thing at first. He thought that it was horrible and that people wouldn't fight for legalizing cannabis because they would get too used to medical cannabis. And they wouldn't see a need for their freedom. And damn it if he wasn't right.

1:51:44MrBut here we are 20 years later trying to get a little more freedom, and I don't see how that's going to stop. Because four plants sounds like shit to me. I want to feel.

1:51:53SpeakerI want four plants for all adults. That's what I'm pushing for. I think me passing you a joint here in Washington State recreationally, that being a felony, needs to go away. We need to have the ability to pass up to an ounce to another citizen. If it's If I go and buy a six pack of joints at the store, it should be the same as if I went and bought a six pack of beer.

1:52:19SpeakerI should be able to pass it out to five of my friends and say, hey, light up your joint, or we should be able to pass it around and all enjoy it together. And that's a felony here in Washington State. So we really need to correct that. And we really need to correct the home growing and then we'll be able to, you know, as consumers enjoy cannabis a lot more.

1:52:39SpeakerYou know, we'll be able to share which is what cannabis consumption has been about forever. It's, you know, let's get into a circle and enjoy this cannabis together.

1:52:50MrSo you think though that it's inevitable, there's no way they can put the genie back in the bottle. We have killed it and it's done. We are only going to get more and more freedoms as time goes forward.

1:53:04SpeakerThe progress is...

1:53:05Etienne FontanWait, wait, wait. That is unless we vote for it. If we just automatically just accept that it's over and done now, then we lose in California and we lose in other states, then we could definitely see a Then Donald Trump's guy gets in, and next thing you know, you've got Chris Christie running the Justice Department. Then Jesus Christ, you know, all this excitement that you're talking about can be displaced very quickly.

1:53:31Etienne FontanI think some people would love nothing more than to put this genie back into a bottle, but I hope that it is more like Pandora's box. I agree in theory, Todd, but to just dispel that, we're pretty much over in that, you know, we've already rolled this rock down that hill, I think is...

1:53:49SpeakerYeah, we need to keep pushing.

1:53:54SpeakerIn Washington State, the law was written the way that I wanted it to be written. You know, 502, it gave us a position that was very progressive, right? But the position was not strong enough towards what the cannabis consumers really want. So when the pushback from the legislature happened, we got pushed back and we lost medical. Thank you for watching.

1:54:31SpeakerYou know, I can't say not to sound like a weirdo, but you know what?

1:54:35MrI was involved with the HempFest 20 years plus. They were cool as shit, never put on an initiative, never did anything to change the law. They threw great parties, and now their party's almost out of business, but the truth is they didn't do what needed to be done. We didn't need parties. We needed change. And a lot of the problem is that we have guys come forward like I-502.

1:54:59MrI didn't think it was that great either, but it's better than Prohibition. If you're a parent and you've got kids and Child Protective Services is knocking on your door, you better wish there's a 502 in place to keep somewhat of a wall between you and those Nazi kind of cops that want to steal your fucking kids. And the same is true here in California. And I just wish that more people like, I have to deal with CHI now.

1:55:22MrThey're yelling, CHI 2018. They've had CHI 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016. They ain't got on the ballot.

1:55:30MrBut they were telling us we shouldn't do Prop 19 because they had CHI and they were going to be on the ballot in 2012 and they were going to change the friggin' world. And you know what? Here we are four years after that fantasy didn't come true and they're talking shit about two years from now. And I'm saying no, no, no. We don't have time to wait and we all got to fight for change.

1:55:48MrWe literally got to take this down block by block, brick by brick. And you know it sucks initially because the whole wall doesn't fall before us but we got to keep kicking.

1:55:59Etienne FontanWell, Prop 64 in California, if you're a parent and you have kids, just on that alone you should pass because it'll keep your kids from being taken away from you by CPS. You know, there, fact alone. You're a parent, you have kids in California, then why would you vote against It, because if you did, then you could have your kids taken away, and you really want that to happen?

1:56:21Etienne FontanSo what we were talking about earlier is that whole D.A.R.E. program, this is one way that it's dismantled through the law, and yes, I love that, Jeff, that you're pushing for four plants, but in California we'd get six plants, so I'll take that extra too, you know, I'm a greedy son of a bitch, but at the same time, if everyone's growing, you know, because California, it's been deemed through the California Supreme Court that, um, They can pass, local jurisdictions can pass any law that they can actually run you, any type of cannabis distribution center or manufacturing out.

1:56:58Etienne FontanIf they want it, they'll have you and tax it. If they don't, they'll kick you out. And if every person in California then is allowed to grow six plants, it subverts that. And what, you're going to have people just going around, you know, counting, you know, plants? No. I think that's going to, that game's going to be given up pretty quick. They'll use that as an excuse from time to time, but it breaks down that wall.

1:57:20Etienne FontanIt breaks down that barrier. That's where we're superior to 502. And as much as I, you know, was skeptical of 502 as well, I thought it was a step in the direction. And look, we have people here who are making livelihoods off it who could have never have Made it in that in the past. You know, in the past you had to talk about tomatoes. Now you can actually talk about cannabis.

1:57:43Etienne FontanYou can actually talk about parts per million and what you're doing to, you know, you can talk about pest reduction and all these different types of correlations that you could have never talked about regarding cannabis. And now you guys are actually doing it. You're actually making it happen every single day. So it's not without its challenges. It's not without its pain in the ass. We still don't have bank accounts, but at the same time, you know, it's a step by step.

1:58:10Etienne FontanAnd you're taking a step in a direction that has shown the rest of the country that it can be done. And you can't tell me these other surrounding states, you can't tell me Idaho isn't sitting there going, a billion dollars, a billion dollars, what can we do with a billion dollars?

1:58:28SpeakerYou know, one reason why I'm so vocal about things at the moment is because I want all the rest of the states to really look at what they're doing and try to do the very best that they can. California is doing it better than we're going to be able to in Washington. When we get home growing, it's probably going to be four plants because that's the lowest common denominator.

1:58:48SpeakerSo that's kind of where our foot is right now. We can't start at six and have the medical patients only have four because there's a disparity there. So it's incremental steps that we're going to need to take along the way. And I wish that some of the steps we didn't have to take. But it's, you know, just like Todd said, hey, it's better than the alternative. The alternative is it's illegal and people are getting locked up.

1:59:15SpeakerSo, you know.

1:59:16Etienne FontanWell, and people say, well, the, you know, will cannabis dispensers get behind it? Well, I'm already behind it. And I have a chance I could lose my business. I understand that. But I got in this for the fact that it's about freedom. It's about freedom for everyone. I'm taking risks that won't be the case, but at the same time, I realize that could be the case as well.

1:59:36Etienne FontanBut, you know, why am I working against my best interest? Well, and the fact is, it's always, for me, been about freedom. You know, and if we don't give back, who will? And yes, there's billionaires who actually put it up, but we have to actually educate everybody. We have to put our money and sense behind it as well, not only our time and our energy to educate people, because if we don't, others will.

1:59:57Etienne FontanAnd we saw in 19... When we saw the failure of 19, we saw the activation of the churches all throughout the Central Valley and going through and pontificating and manufacturing lies and misinformation about who in their congregation is going to go against their preacher, who in their congregation is going to go against their priest. Who is going to go against their rabbi? You know, for the most part, people do what they're told.

2:00:24Etienne FontanSo we have a great deal of education that has to happen, but people think that just because we're dispensaries here in California, all we want to do is sit back and make profit. And it's not about that for all of us. Some, yeah, but for some of us it's still about our brothers and sisters are in jail right now. And if we're not doing something to better ourselves and better them, then what are we doing?

2:00:46Etienne FontanAnd For us, 64 is a step in that right direction. Like we said, is it perfect? No. But it's a step toward freeing people. And I mean, I would love to see CPS in California be shrunk because they don't have to deal with marijuana cases anymore. I mean, I'm tired of reading about a baby who was killed in Child Protective Services custody Thank you for watching.

2:01:26Etienne FontanWe have a chance just through this law alone to affect that type of change is beyond me. I mean, it is beyond that people would actually want to fight to stop it or to just say, no, you shouldn't, you don't want that change because I don't know if it's just prohibition, you know, drunkardness, but it's just insanity.

2:01:45MrWell, I think the problem is people putting profits over principles. People are worried about their pocketbook and they're not worried about the minorities getting arrested or the parents losing their kids. They're worried about their profits dropping. It's obvious all the time. The more and more of these people that come out against legalization talk, the more you can listen. They're just protecting the profits they're currently making off of cannabis being illegal.

2:02:08MrIt's that simple.

2:02:09Etienne FontanBut they see it. They're already seeing the prices drop exponentially since medicals come on board and how fast it's changed just in the legal states and how it's going to continue to change. The market's gone. The days of $4,000 a pound are gone in California. It's not coming back. It's not going to continue this false prohibition islands. We're tired of this. We've been dealing with this inflated bullshit because This is what we've had to do to risk our freedoms.

2:02:37Etienne FontanWell, we no longer have to risk our freedoms. We're no longer risking jail if it becomes legal. So therefore, that risk, an inherent risk, comes out of it. And that was a price. That was a cost because you were risking your freedom, etc., etc., or was said excuse. So all those things fall by the wayside because those are no longer applicable. We're just dealing with an agricultural commodity.

2:02:59SpeakerYeah, you know, and that's the real truth of what's happening here in Washington State. You go into a retail marijuana store, and the price is the same or less than it ever was for medical cannabis. So, you know, the... Making it legal is really driving the price down for the consumer and making your choice, there's a lot more choices out there, you know, so it's slowly going to be better for everybody even though, you know, things hurt.

2:03:30SpeakerChange hurts at first, but everybody's going to have to deal with that and move on and just make it what they can.

2:03:38Etienne FontanWell, and now you growers that are now new growers there in Washington State, now you have to Thank you so much for joining us.

2:04:05SpeakerCorrect, yeah, it's all about, well, I also think that for the agricultural crop of cannabis, we have a lot of people who don't know what our cost to produce a gallon is. I mean, our cost to produce a pound is in gallons of water, not just in fertilizer, but just in, like for tomatoes, for instance, we roughly know how many gallons of water it takes to grow a pound of tomatoes, like we're using that as a reference, but In cannabis, we're using a lot of water, too.

2:04:30SpeakerAnd as we start legalizing it, I think that's something we should all take into account. California is pretty dry. This is a lot of water I think we're using in Washington, too. I have everything on drip irrigation to try to minimize our overall footprint, but I know that we use a lot, and a lot of my friends use a lot of water, like 500, 600 gallons a day just for the first watering.

2:04:52SpeakerSo it's not just about saving, like, You know, I mean, obviously the pennies per gram thing, you want to be able to grow grams for pennies. But on top of that, it's a really water-hungry crop, and I'm almost worried about the future of how much we're going to use.

2:05:07Etienne FontanWhy do you state that? Because you can already see that it's significantly more water than, say, a tomato or other agricultural crops that you're familiar with?

2:05:17SpeakerI think they're actually pretty drought-tolerant, surprisingly. They're still really big wimps in comparison. But I think people, like some of my friends who are growing field tomatoes in comparison to my friends who are growing greenhouse tomatoes, the greenhouse growers use 10, well the field growers use 10 times more water than the greenhouse growers and it's because of, they're just broadcasting over the entire field and as some of the farmers out here are doing it, that requires the most soil and when we move into the greenhouses and people start to really dial in Thank you so much for joining us.

2:06:13Etienne FontanMonitoring each crop so you can see how you're maximizing or ways that you can maximize. Do you have specific strains that you've found that grow better in your particular grow environment than necessarily strains that you would want to grow?

2:06:28SpeakerOh yeah, of course. I think they started this, when I adopted this farm, I think they had like 270 strains on site. And none of them had been even entered into a, anyone through a flower room, they're all seed starts, essentially just a bunch of, exactly, exactly. A few of which I brought from my house before this whole thing, you know, switched over. So I've been working on just dialing it down to less than a dozen from that bigger number to something that's more commercially viable, more resistant.

2:06:58SpeakerSo instead of, again, instead of having to use alternative, Pest Management, I can just try to grow cultivars that are more suited for our environments here. They like our greenhouses better. I found some really hate, you know, our Girl Scout cookies didn't do too well.

2:07:14Etienne FontanRight, selective, right, you have to be very selective because some genetics just grow well in some longitudes, latitudes, others just, right, fuck you, and their whole house and everything in it.

2:07:25SpeakerYeah, we have a few that we've nicknamed stuff like that. We have one called Satori that's a little shitter around here.

2:07:32KeokiCalled the Shatori.

2:07:36BubblemanThe Shatori. Well, I'm hoping that my friend who just came into the room who has a picture of a tree and a sort of skyline in the background is going to come in on a computer that actually has a mic because the one he is using does not have a mic. But he is quite an incredible fellow. I've known him online for quite a few years. He went by the online name Indra, and he was actually responsible for showing the cannabis community butane extractions.

2:08:06BubblemanHe released that in 1999 on Euroid, and he's done some quite interesting things since that I probably don't have the right to talk about, so if he chooses to, he's welcome to, and if not, he doesn't have to. He's very private, much like Skunk Man Sam, so he's not going to be showing his face, but we do hope that he's able to get his mic, to be able to come in with his mic and be able to, you know, I know Todd's going to have questions.

2:08:32BubblemanMaybe the fellows there at the Grow and the Butane Maker, because hey, let's be honest, he's definitely, I had never heard anyone in the cannabis industry doing it before Indra showed everyone in 1999. Just three months after I started the bubble bag company. So Bubble Hash and BHO really were birthed very closely together. Obviously Water Hash was being done prior and I'm sure people were doing other things with butane that I'm not aware of.

2:09:05BubblemanBut they both, Bubble Hash and BHO had a birth in 1999 at least to be popularized through online communities like Overgrow and Eroid. Cannabis World and Cannabis Net and Cannabis.com and Cannabis Culture.

2:09:20Etienne FontanWell, that's 1999. That's when we started to see actual what we called honey bud back then come through the dispensaries in Oakland because back then it was BHO was extracted and it was just very liquidy so they just drizzled it over buds, usually medium to low grade buds. That's how we saw it originally.

2:09:47BubblemanWell, it'd be great for him to be able to come and talk about that a little bit if he feels the urge to, but we've got to get him all mic'd up first, so hopefully he's able to borrow his son's computer and get on here and tell us what's been going on with him in the last 20 or so years.

2:10:08MrPretty fascinating. I'm really glad you got him to finally say that he would consider being on What a contribution to the cannabis community I believe he's made, to be blunt. I mean, I think cannabis has gone through a lot of phases in the extractions that we've done with it, but the hydrocarbons have taken it to an entirely new level when it comes to getting cannabinoids and terpenes Wow, Ronson, oh my God.

2:11:02Etienne FontanYeah, it's become my medicine of choice, and a lot of my patients, so I'm very thankful for that the process has gotten so well done. I know originally it definitely wasn't the case, but now there's entire industries and manufacturers that specifically deal in now closed loop systems so that we don't have to hear about people blowing up their houses or neighborhoods, et cetera, et cetera, because Unfortunately, that was the side effect of the old way of doing things.

2:11:35BubblemanYeah, that part was for sure. When John said it made a storm when I did it, I was going to say, yeah, there was definitely a storm. Waterhash, too, had its own little kind of not quite as big as the BHO storm, but definitely had its own storm as well where suddenly people were able to access a product that It just was almost impossible to access prior.

2:12:00BubblemanLike just everyday normal people, you didn't even have to be that into it. You just had to be like, here, like check this process out. All of a sudden these two processes where you can make really concentrated golden oil or really concentrated golden heads, it was quite a time in 1999 for the cannabis concentrate world. I think prior to that, Man, I'll tell you, it was a lot harder to find.

2:12:26BubblemanToday, 17 years later, I can't believe how many people have concentrates.

2:12:31Etienne FontanCome on, finding hash was hard. I mean, even back then, anything that you found, unless it came from a farmer, it was black, usually with a gold seal on it, and it was... Not good. You know, the quality was always low. It wasn't until bubble hash that we actually saw, you know, when you put a little, you knew that you could then, the standard was to take a lighter and apply it to the hash and to see if it bubbled or not.

2:12:57Etienne FontanBecause if it didn't bubble, you know, but now there was a new standard to change. You could actually see if it actually bubbled. But for the most part, as well in 99, when for the most, I would have to say consistently, The original butane that came on buds was very few and far between because people didn't really know about it and what is this stuff. It looks like a deformed bud that's had something bizarre poured on top of it.

2:13:25Etienne FontanSo even then it didn't have any way to purge it so it was just very bubbly and when it was on the bud it just didn't look attractive in any way, shape, or form.

2:13:37BubblemanJohn's saying that he has a complete lab and has had his tested in an NMR machine and it is extremely pure. I used to get honey oil from the Hare Krishnas until they got busted. That's where my inspiration came from.

2:13:50Etienne FontanNice. Oh, you've got to get a mic now. I've got to hear about this Hare Krishna bust.

2:13:55BubblemanYeah, well, he spent time in India for sure, some time. I know. He's got to get a mic and get your son's computer, man. Get in here. We've got questions we want to ask you.

2:14:06Etienne FontanSo Krishna's also the lowest caste, correct? I don't know. I was told they're one of the lowest castes.

2:14:19BubblemanI'm really not too sure. Yeah, he lived in India for 14 years. That's a fair amount of time to be living in India. Well, you're killing us right now, dude. Get your son's computer. Get the microphone. Talk to us.

2:14:34Etienne FontanThat's a lot of humidity, too. Holy shit.

2:14:40Etienne FontanThat's no shortage, for sure.

2:14:43BubblemanWell, in the meantime, definitely stoked on how Hash Church fell together so far today. It would be amazing to hear from Indra, of course, but man, it was nice to hear Mark and Chris talk about the chemistry of THCO and the difference between the acetates, non-acetate versions. Good to have these guys coming in from... I guess you guys are in and around the Seattle area, is that correct?

2:15:07KeokiWe're in Arlington, about 35, 40, 45 minutes north of the city. Yeah.

2:15:14BubblemanOkay, so that's still kind of in the Seattle area, neck of the woods.

2:15:17Etienne FontanYeah. So I'm hearing that they are going to allow for more dispensaries or distribution centers in the state of Washington.

2:15:25KeokiYeah, they started licensing or they shut down the application process in like 2013 for producer processors and retail licenses. And they reopened them back up. Earlier, I think it was last year actually, I'm not sure if it's shut down yet, but they were going to be adding more, and I know a lot of counties such as Tacoma were amending their memorandums for like a cap on the retails per county.

2:15:51KeokiSo there's a lot of them opening up, and there's a lot of new jobs for bud tenders. Like I said, they're certifying bud tenders now medically too, so.

2:16:02BubblemanWell... 172nd Street Glass says that they're in Arlington too. What's up?

2:16:09SpeakerWhat's up? Yeah, they did open it up for more retailers. So you had to be a medical collective garden basically or associated with a collective garden. So it was basically that law 50-52 that I was talking about that killed medical. That also allowed for more retail stores so that we could take the medical market and move it over into this retail cannabis market. And there was a cap that was put in there by the Lick Control Board.

2:16:43SpeakerIt was, I believe, they almost doubled the amount of stores that were available, not quite doubled. But it's done now. There is no more application window open, and the Lick Control Board for now is not going to license any more producers, processors, or retail.

2:17:04BubblemanHmm. Interesting. Well, what's going on up in PG, Johnny B, that you guys are all up there?

2:17:12SpeakerWell, you know what? Darren's like, you've got to come up here, and I made a last-minute decision to just buy a plane ticket. Come on up. He's going to drive his car back. I wanted to come up here and be trying to get up here to a couple stores up here for a few years, so I made the contacts. I thought, you know what? Why not come up for a business trip at the same time?

2:17:30SpeakerCome up and see Darren. He's been bugging me for years, and it just happened. And I'm here and I'll be back Tuesday. We're going to make hash. That's what we're going to do. We're going to make hash today. That's what we're going to do. We've got some ice coming and we're just going to be making hash all day.

2:17:51BubblemanSounds like a damn fine day, Johnny B.

2:17:53SpeakerYou know what? It's just one of those great days. You know what? Good people and we've got food going on here. I'm walking in and out because I'm really paying attention. I love talking with you guys and stuff on this show. Yeah, it's just good stuff, huh?

2:18:05Etienne FontanYeah, making hash with friends. I mean, what could be better?

2:18:08SpeakerLike, it's me and Darren, we smoke our hash together all the time, but we've never made hash together, ever. So, you know what? Yeah, let's make some hash. I make hash with you quite a bit, Mark. I make hash with Darren and stuff like that. It's going to be fun. I've made hash with both of you. And now we're making hash together, so that's awesome.

2:18:28Etienne FontanSo you're bi-hash-ual.

2:18:30BubblemanWe made hash on the Eskimo Brothers.

2:18:34SpeakerSo did Mark. A couple years ago, you, me, and Phil made hash. That was awesome, too. It was always good.

2:18:41BubblemanYep, that was the Whistler-Chicamas River hash run. That was fun.

2:18:47SpeakerSo everybody in Hash Church, at one point, we all have to get together and make hash, because that's what we do. We make hash.

2:18:52BubblemanI really promote getting out of the lab and making hash sometimes, you know, on a mountainside in a glacier.

2:19:00SpeakerYou can make hash anywhere.

2:19:04BubblemanYou just need ice and water. Making it with DJ Short on the bus driving in Vancouver. I mean, so many thoughts.

2:19:14SpeakerAnd on the back of your boat there a few years ago, floating. Yep, John C on the back of the boat. And Chad, where have you guys made hash? Like, where have you had to make hash or have you made your hide in somewhere? Like, you know, we all, everybody's smiling.

2:19:29BubblemanWe've all made hash where we've had to make hash. It'll be a new hashtag. I make hash in public.

2:19:35SpeakerI make hash. You just made it. You just made a new hashtag.

2:19:40BubblemanYeah. Now I want to see the pictures. I want to see the pictures. Yeah.

2:19:45SpeakerWhere have you made your hash? Somewhere in public. That's great. I love that. All around the world, guys. There you go. You just started it. Where have you made your hash?

2:19:55Etienne FontanIn my attic. Public polyhashuals. Somebody said polyhashuals. I like that one.

2:20:01SpeakerGoing from the background here, God's going to put me on mute again and stuff like that. So it's getting busy here, of course. Darren's got the whole crew, big food, everything. All right.

2:20:17BubblemanOh, okay, right on. I was like, is he going to mute the mic? He is. He did. Wonderful. Well, I think it's time to blow some smoke signals to the Vatican, even though we don't have Bubba Robb with us today.

2:20:28Etienne FontanNor Skunkman.

2:20:32BubblemanNor Skunkman. No, I'm not sure. I didn't hear from Skunkman today. I sent him out the link. I always send the link out to a whack of people and, you know, whoever makes it on makes it on type of thing. Sometimes it gets popular. I think we still have Jen Doe saying she was going to pop in at one point. And... There might even be a few others.

2:20:52BubblemanOh, Cuban I sent the link to. I think he said he might pop in later. We'll see what happens.

2:21:16KeokiHey, thanks for having us on, you guys. I just wanted to leave you with some 502 data information. Right now on 502 data, there is 285 retailers in the state of Washington and 818 producer processors in the state of Washington.

2:21:33SpeakerYeah, thanks for having us.

2:21:34KeokiTake care, guys.

2:21:36SpeakerThanks for coming.

2:21:37KeokiKeep up the great work.

2:21:38MrGreat, great work. Thank you, guys. Really cool what you're doing.

2:21:44BubblemanJust don't bring up fucking Monsanto.

2:21:50MrFucking Monsanto. Hey, listen, I'm all about information. Just misinformation pisses me off.

2:21:56BubblemanYeah, I know. I was glad they came in and shared their information. It was good to have Jeff come in. He hasn't been in in a while, so he was able to also relay some of that information in a nice articulate manner. Much appreciated, Mr. Church. Hey.

2:22:11Etienne FontanHey, I see John. Can we hear you? We can hear you, John. We can actually hear you. He has a mic. Sorry to step on you there, Mr. Buffalo.

2:22:23BubblemanWe do hear you. There's two Johns in the room now, John. So there's also Indra, who now has his mic going. So welcome to the show.

2:22:34SpeakerHi. Does it come through okay? Because I can't hear anything.

2:22:39BubblemanOh, it comes through perfect. You can't hear us?

2:22:42SpeakerI can hear him fine. I hear you fine. I just don't hear myself in the headphones.

2:22:48BubblemanPerfect. No, we hear you absolutely wonderfully.

2:22:51MrWell, you're coming through perfectly clear. Thank you very much for joining us.

2:22:55Etienne FontanThanks for having me along, guys. Now you have to tell us about what happened with the Krishnas.

2:23:03SpeakerOh, now I hear the echo. No, you're fine.

2:23:07MrYou know, can we just be serious for a second? I think that when I was avidly on the computer back in 1999 when your post on Erowid first hit, and you, I think, have made an enormous contribution to the world in a very positive way. I'm a chronic pain patient, and BHO has helped me considerably, and I just would like to ask the question, How did you get to that?

2:23:35MrWhat caused you to put some in a tube and throw some butane over it?

2:23:41SpeakerWell, I used to buy honey oil from the Hare Krishnas in the 70s. And in the late 70s, early 80s, when they put up the first BART, and it went not very far. And I used to go on the BART to the end of the line, made some Hare Krishnas in the bathroom and exchange cash for honey oil that they smuggled back from India in typewriter cases.

2:24:14SpeakerThat went on for a while and then they got popped and there was no more honey oil and so that was my beginning of research of how to come across an efficacious way to And I saw other people using steam and this and that, and I thought I didn't like any of it. And when I started looking at various other polar and nonpolar solvents, I looked at liquid butane and n-butane and isobutane.

2:24:49SpeakerAnd I thought, well, you know what? I was in Switzerland at the time. And so I went down to the local Swiss chemistry place and got myself a five-pound bottle of isobutane. And I went back and stuffed a very crude plumbing pipe with buds, drilled a hole in the bottom, Turn the gas upside down, let it through, and my son was standing there watching me, and we saw it bubble up and turn it into pure oil, and he looked at me and I looked at him and I said, you know what, I think I just solved the problem of honey oil for the world again.

2:25:33Etienne FontanThat was a true eureka moment.

2:25:35MrCan I ask you this? So you're saying that you had no knowledge that this was already a process used in food prep to separate caffeine and coffee beans?

2:25:45SpeakerNo, I didn't know, but let me tell you this. I have a patent that is in force now worldwide on separating oils from food and perfume and flowers, and the biggest company in the world, Roberté in Grasse, France, licenses it and uses it. And that is the latest and greatest patent. In fact, the guy at Geneva, when I filed that patent, He told me, look, I looked back 45 years through the files and found nothing about the way you go about this.

2:26:21SpeakerHe said this is completely inventive and it's completely a new idea. And so that's the current patent that's filed and I'm the owner of that. So I would say that I have a lot of experience with it. In fact, I probably, I had the The head of Roberti, the head scientist there, came and visited the place that we built out in the middle of the United States.

2:26:52SpeakerAnd he walked in and he looked around and he sat down and he just, he said, wow, he said, this is 200 years ahead of everybody and everything. We want to license it. So, that process, of course we don't use just pure isobutane anymore. I have a Thanks for watching.

2:27:38SpeakerRemorse. And then when people started burning themselves and blowing themselves up, I felt even worse remorse. And I even tried, I would go on and say, hey, by the way, don't do this. You know, the gas is heavy. It burns hotter than liquid hydrogen. Every time one of you blows yourself up or burns yourself to death, I fucking lose months and months of sleep over it because I feel like if I hadn't opened my big mouth, you'd still be alive, you dumb fucks.

2:28:06MrYou know, I completely admire the place you're coming from, but you've also, and you don't see the news, it doesn't hit Channel 11 or at 11 p.m., but you have saved so many people. From dealing with chronic pain, nausea, and a whole host of conditions that we would have never touched with traditional seething, with water hash, you have given people access to cannabinoids and we have hop, skipped, and jumped the pharmaceutical companies taking it away from us because you gave us this very simple process that has now given companies like Across International million dollar a month sales pledgers because they're selling these vacuum ovens everywhere and people are learning how to Thank you for joining us today.

2:29:07MrThat has happened because you have put this into the hands of people that can't afford a lot of the pharmaceuticals that are handed to them in place of what cannabinoid medication can do. And I applaud you.

2:29:21SpeakerI really applaud you. I thank you. But listen, when I did it, when I posted it, I knew that it was going to make a wave in the consciousness of the planet. And when you're standing at that precipice, when you're standing on that cliff and you look down and there's a fire behind you burning up towards where you're at, you either fucking start to believe that if I jump, I'm going to have wings and you fall off of that thing and you sprout wings and you do the right thing.

2:29:57SpeakerAnd the right thing was to post it where everybody could read it and not just try to monopolize it Myself because the world needed it and I'm part of everything and everything is part of me and there's we might be distance apart but we're connected in every possible way and you know when you get high it permeates the cosmos and I feel it too and so if I if I could touch a lot of people

2:30:35SpeakerThrough my heart chakra, by publishing that, I intended to do so, and I did. Actually, it was a double barrel shotgun. At the same time, I left a method out how to extract the alkaloids out of cactus in one step without much shit, too. But anyway, yeah, the world, you know, I'm a child of the 60s. I went, you know, I came back from Vietnam in 64.

2:31:03SpeakerI went to Woodstock. I went to San Francisco. I, you know, I was with the Brotherhood of Light when they were producing all that stuff. But all the time there was good pot, good pot, good pot everywhere. And We're now the politicians that figured out a way to get their fucking hands on it. And I fear for the whole thing because of that. So you got to let stuff like this out.

2:31:31SpeakerWhen you find something out that everybody can do, like for instance, I've now developed a perfume with no THC in it, but it smells exactly like good bud. And I have people who've taken this perfume and they're spraying it when they get stopped by the police. And doing a test case on purpose trying to get the police power of hey I smell marijuana taken away from them because there is a product that smells like marijuana that has no THC in it.

2:32:01SpeakerSo I'm trying to disempower the wrong people and empower all the right people.

2:32:07BubblemanI love it dude. It's the right thing to do. I love everything you're saying to be honest. I mean I've been talking to you for years online. And it's really neat to hear your voice and hear you share your stories. I've always wanted for you to be able to do that on a platform like this, so I do thank you for coming in and sharing some stories.

2:32:29MrI can't thank you enough. You know, there are people that have kind of kicked us along, kicked the can along of knowledge, and you know, and you're... To hear you talking now and to hear that this came out of somebody with such a deep sense of conscience and compassion and empathy for the world around them, it's beautiful. And I thank you.

2:32:51SpeakerI have to thank you as well. Everybody is completely welcome. I mean, if you come in the world and you don't do something beautiful with your life, even if you're the only one who recognizes it, and in fact, for sure, if you need to recognize it, that's the story of life, you know, you...

2:33:13Etienne FontanWell, know that a lot of us veterans have gotten a lot of relief from your medicine and your creation, and I'm a combat veteran myself, and it is my daily usage.

2:33:24SpeakerIt's how we all become beautiful.

2:33:27Etienne FontanYou're awesome. Thank you.

2:33:28BubblemanAbsolutely. Someone was asking about the defatting of the hemp oil. Of course, years ago, he contacted me in a very kind way and just said, you know, there's this I got a couple of processes and I just, I fear that they could destroy your bank sales and I was like, ah, whatever dude, like release it, like if it's, it'll do what it does, like, you know, type of thing.

2:33:52BubblemanAnd so we sort of met that way. I've always had people phoning me or internet email messaging me over the years and saying that they've designed the latest, greatest, newest thing that's going to change everything. And for some reason with him it was different. There was always just kind of like, I don't think this guy's, Talking shit. Like I feel like he's legitimate. I can feel it.

2:34:14BubblemanAnd it's very hard to feel anything over internet messages and emails because the context is hard to find sometimes. You can't hear the person's voice. You can't really get to know where they're coming from. You just have to read the words. And I always knew he was a unique sort of quirky individual, but I had trust in him. And so Thank you for watching.

2:35:00BubblemanThank you so much for joining us today.

2:35:24BubblemanThank you so much for joining us today.

2:35:51BubblemanHad a 60, almost 62% protein powder isolator. That was the percentage of that stuff. And the highest percentage close to that was my friend's old company that they sold recently, Manitoba Harvest. They had 50% protein powder isolate and they just sold that company for $133 million. You just trying it once got almost 11% higher protein powder isolate. One of the things their company bragged about was how high their protein powder isolate was.

2:36:26BubblemanIt blew me away, man.

2:36:27SpeakerGo see if they want to license it from us. I'll make a deal with you.

2:36:32BubblemanI totally talked to them and asked them, and they seemed frightened. They just seemed like it was like, oh my God.

2:36:40SpeakerWell, they'd have to throw away all the old equipment. But this is so much simpler and so much easier and oh well.

2:36:49BubblemanYeah, well, I'm happy to license it for anywhere that I can.

2:36:55MrWell, can I ask this? Where do you see the future going? I mean, I feel like, you know, I would have loved to have had that question to you in 99, but where do you feel it's going now with all the advancements? You must be tuned into everything that's happening. What do you think is the next step for us in extractions?

2:37:13SpeakerWell, that latest patent I published appeared in Oils and Fats magazine, and that magazine is like $2,500 to get your hands on a copy of it. But it goes around to all the real oil and fat recovery and use people and perfume in the world that do it industrially. And I see... That business using this process more and more and more because it really eliminates the idea of trying to remove solvents that just by contact or by a footprint left in it cause irritation on the skin, inside the body, whatever the case.

2:38:00SpeakerAs for how well we can regulate that towards this industry, I do own the patent, so everybody that's doing BHO right now, technically, is infringing on my patent. Now, I don't intend to do something strange. What I want to do is I want to get people a license and I want to get them instruction on how to actually utilize the patent safely and to actually do good stuff with it.

2:38:36SpeakerI would love everybody to take a safety class in BHO because listen, I've seen all of the BHO systems That are advertised and I've watched the demonstrations that they give. One guy was demonstrating it in front of a garage door and he says, well, I keep the store cracked in case anything happens. And I'm like, yeah, well, if something does happen, you'll be going to that door at, oh, a thousand miles an hour with 5,000 reburns all over your body.

2:39:05SpeakerBecause the practices that people do with these simplistic systems where the pipe's up in the air and another pipe on the bottom are just... Not the right thing. And I'm very, very, very careful. We have a room that we flood with nitrogen before we start the process. And in 17 years, we've never had an accident. Now, the people out there doing it and doubtful and think, oh, I'm really careful.

2:39:39SpeakerI got to say, you've all got a very, very bad safety record. There's been hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of fires and explosions and houses blowing up. And in 17 years, I've survived two factory fires that my place was in, and I never had a fire or an explosion. So when I say all I'm interested in is seeing everybody do it safe, you know, if there is a safe way to go about it, I don't see it in the systems that are being sold.

2:40:13SpeakerAnd, you know, a guy could make it safe without too much trouble, but everybody's in a hurry to make money and it seems like the money part is coming before the safety part. And that's what's scary. I mean, there's a lot of people hurting themselves and I feel bad about it because people took a look at my patent And derived the simplest parts of it out to use to do this with.

2:40:42SpeakerAnd, you know, I know some people aren't going to be happy with that. I see some people on the screen throwing me the bird and whatnot, but okay, you know, I've seen these people who are burnt and blown up. If you haven't had a look at them, go ahead. By the way, I'm 70, you know, I'm a Vietnam vet. I was a child of the 60s, and I've seen a lot of these people burn themselves up, and man, oh man, it tears me apart.

2:41:16BubblemanYeah, it's terrible for sure. I think it's why proposing safety protocols instead of saying people shouldn't do it is fine, and I don't think anyone was giving you the bird either. People don't like to hear the truth sometimes. I think Plato might have said that the truthful man is the most hated man, but... Hey, it is what it is. Sometimes we've got to share the truth. I have a quick question about your patents now.

2:41:42BubblemanCan I ask a quick question before you ask about your patents?

2:41:45MrWho was flipping who off? I don't know. Because I'm tripping out on it, too. I don't think anyone was flipping anybody off, at least not on the screens. I was trying to read the comments and write messages, and I'm like, what the hell just happened?

2:41:59SpeakerI'm not a finger pointer, so I'm not going to point them out. That person who did it knows who they are. So anyway, go ahead, Mark.

2:42:06MrWell, okay. All right. Well, I didn't, I was like, what the hell? How did this, I was so listening when you were talking that I just was, I lost it. But go ahead with the patent question, please.

2:42:16BubblemanI just wanted to know if the butane patent was different from this, like, cryogenic method.

2:42:23SpeakerThe cryogenic method is completely different. You know, I'll give you a little, just a little backdrop on it. My first, thing I was trying to do was find a way to take mold and spores out of pot because at the time everybody's pot was turning up with a lot of mold and spores especially in Northern California and I was looking for a way to clean the pot up and so I started experimenting with temperature and electricity and a special kind of static electricity and I While I was doing that, instead of attracting the mold out, one day I turned it on and all the trichromes, you have to understand it was all crushed up as powder, but all the trichromes jumped out and jumped up to the top electrode and surrounded it in a high state of purity.

2:43:23SpeakerAnd when I saw that, I thought, okay, well, fuck the mold routine, look at this.

2:43:33SpeakerAnd so those trichromes are very pure and I found the frequency that drew them out of the crushed bud and no green in it at all, just the trichromes. And you could even further purify it by pouring those trichromes into a glass of water and what little chaff was there would drain off and you would just have the pure globes.

2:43:59MrCan I ask, can you tell the people that are listening why butane does not pick up mold and chlorophyll and why we see it with water production?

2:44:09SpeakerWell, everything that's oil is going to come across in a butane extract. And mold is not oil-based, nor probably is chlorophyll. And so you won't get it...

2:44:31MrDid he drop off, Mark?

2:44:32BubblemanI'm not sure. I think he just maybe froze for a bit.

2:44:36Etienne FontanHe froze prior for a second, then it comes back on.

2:44:39SpeakerDid you hear that?

2:44:40MrWell, it said that you were saying that it just, when you're pulling it, it doesn't pull the chlorophyll or the mold.

2:44:47SpeakerWell, okay, I'll tell you another little secret. In the bottom of the extraction chamber, it is a wise idea to get yourself Five pounds of molecular sieves. And on top of the molecular sieves, put in two pounds of activated charcoal. Put your pot in on top of all that and make your extraction. And the molecular sieves and the activated charcoal will reduce everything out except the pierce of the oil.

2:45:22SpeakerAnd it'll also sweeten it a bit. You buy the five to seven nanometer Thank you so much for joining us.

2:45:58MrYou know, how do you feel about how it has turned into a medicine for so many and how it has changed the face of cannabis in many ways?

2:46:06SpeakerListen, that's the voltage regulator for my disappointment in the people who are hurt. And I use the number of people that are getting good from it. Hi to that little guy, he's a cutie pie. I use the good that it's done to... To, you know, as a bomb for the ones I'm sad for who hurt themselves. And I use a lot of other things. I realize that some of the people who are doing it don't have the brains it takes to scratch their ass with both hands.

2:46:41SpeakerAnd so no matter what they were doing, they would end up hurting themselves. So I discount those out of it. I mean, those are people who can bleed to death from clipping their toenails. Those are the people who literally can't pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. So those I don't feel bad about. What I feel bad about are the people who fool themselves into thinking it's safe.

2:47:08SpeakerAnd there's only a few safe ways to deal with butane. One, you need a powerful evacuator at the lowest point in the room that's sucking everything out of that room once a minute. Thank you for watching.

2:47:46SpeakerYou have to treat it like cobra venom. It is the best way to make the oil. There's no question about that. It's tested out. I mean, people, when I make it, people can smell the oil and say, wow, that's sour D, or that's this, or that's that. They can smell the flower, they can smell where it came from and what it is. And that's the way it ought to be.

2:48:10SpeakerYou don't get that with CO2. Never going to happen. Um,

2:48:16MrNo, CO2 doesn't pull. This is why I think the coffee industry moved to CO2, because it didn't pull the terpenes and the flavonoids that made coffee taste like coffee. So when they went on to sell those coffee beans, the coffee beans still resembled coffee, even though they took the caffeine out.

2:48:35SpeakerWell, listen to this. When I was in Switzerland... This company in France called Firminiche approached me and wanted me to extract 50 pounds of Jamaican Blue Mountain beans for them. I extracted it, gave them the oil. I said, what do I do with the beans? They said, we don't care. Throw them away. I had the most amazing coffee for 50 pounds worth that I've ever had in my life.

2:49:00SpeakerCoffee without the oil in it and the tannins and the acids in it. And it was like milk chocolate every morning. It was fabulous. Still had the caffeine in it, but, you know, it was clean. You got to understand, I made some corn oil for a company from the Midwest, and the chemist said to me, I've never seen this pure and this fine oil. He goes, but you know what?

2:49:25SpeakerHe goes, we need cheaper oil because people aren't used to this. If we sell a bottle of this, everybody's going to want one. Get me? Right.

2:49:36BubblemanAnd so... Raised the bar so high, all of a sudden their other stuff is like...

2:49:43SpeakerWell, you've got to realize that they get most corn oil by using really nasty solvents, and then they distill them off to a certain point, but still, it's in your body now, isn't it? Everybody's got tests for all these different kinds of crap that the big companies try to sell us that's good for us.

2:50:06Etienne FontanCan you tell us what your patent number is?

2:50:14SpeakerSo anyway, me, I'm not into hiding anything. My patent is published. I can, but I don't have it right here because the computer I'm... No, it's okay.

2:50:33MrYou know, Johnny, don't take it as anything weird. You know, a lot of people have been coming on hashtags talking about patents and this and patent and that. And it's impossible for people to know they're violating something if they don't know about it. And when they understand it is happening, you know, there are companies now that obviously in Colorado and Washington and probably soon to be California are going to be getting in line and they would want to license safe technology because they don't know better.

2:51:03SpeakerWell, that's just it. The technology that I propose to license, and I'm not, you know, I don't want to kill the mom-pa people off at all, man. I mean, my whole thing in the first place was when I got that first dab or whatever you want to call it, about six of us were sitting around smoking it. In fact, I went to Amsterdam and, you know, Mark and I have a mutual, some mutual friends there and I started spreading it around Amsterdam and nobody there had seen it.

2:51:35SpeakerAnd our friend Steve in Amsterdam was a big let everybody know about this and, you know, I was spreading it around just as much as possible. I wanted to Have a part in turning the world back on. Maybe at some point.

2:51:56BubblemanYeah, it was incredible. I ended up getting some of that from Steve. And it sort of, it came from me. I was at the greenhouse and we were all smoking bubble and it was, you know, pretty melty stuff, like four and five star. And this guy was sitting at the table going, you guys don't even know, like you think your hash melts, you should see my hash.

2:52:18BubblemanAnd I guess, It wasn't just pure butane oil, though, was it? It was like a BHO that had been mixed with like a dry sift.

2:52:25SpeakerWell, no, it wasn't a dry sift. I have a method that I gave you a little clue into using electricity and cold, and it pulls off the... And then I take that and mix it with the oil, and you can hand work it. It's like temple ball, nice and soft.

2:52:40BubblemanYeah, that was like 1999, maybe?

2:52:45SpeakerIt could have been, yeah.

2:52:47Bubbleman98, 99, it was right around the time I started the bubble bag company that was, but yeah, that material, it was this guy Fred from Seattle, this little guy Fred, and he was like, oh, I got the craziest shit, and he smoked the bowl with all of us, and we were just like, what the hell was that? So then I was like, I want to learn more, and he said, oh, my buddy's got it, and I'm like, who's your buddy?

2:53:08BubblemanAnd he's like, oh, we call him the nose, and I'm like, I know the nose. So I went and saw some people. I went and saw Steve and actually grabbed the last gram of it. And it was strong, man. Like, no doubt it was ridiculous. It was Neville's Haze, wasn't it?

2:53:26SpeakerI think it was Neville's Haze and one other. I've forgotten now what the name of it was. All the names have changed now, so.

2:53:35BubblemanYeah. Yeah, that was a long time ago. That was like 17 years ago.

2:53:39MrSo...

2:53:43BubblemanAnd that also was a neat thing when you started emailing me and telling me some things. I was able to connect you with that experience and that also gave me just more validation. It's hard in the internet when people are coming out of left field and you want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time, it seems like for whatever reason, I definitely attract a large group of people who may or may not be Well, you've got to remember, I was originally advocating that method for sucking certain alkaloids out of certain kinds of cactus.

2:54:35BubblemanRight, that's what you were sort of hinting upon.

2:54:39SpeakerAnd then the guy said to me, what else is this good for? And I said, well, if you stuff some pot in a pipe and squirt this through it, you'll get honey oil. And everything was quiet. I don't know if you remember, but the board went quiet for like 15 minutes. Nobody made any post. And it was just sitting there. And then all of a sudden this guy comes on and he says...

2:55:02SpeakerDo you realize the implications of this? Yeah. And I said, I think so.

2:55:09BubblemanI think so. Yeah, it definitely like, I don't know, the timing was just so crazy in 1999. Like for me, it was my friend Breeder Steve telling me, hey, you know, you should get online and get yourself, you know, posting and learning about these websites, these online cannabis and psychedelic websites. And I had been kind of surfing around, but not really to the cannabis ones. And then Getting the nice computer and the digital camera and then creating the bags or making the bags, not creating the bags, making the bags and releasing them with all of that, the camera, the computer, the technology, and the websites, it was just like a hit for Instantaneous because bubble bags made their own wave as well.

2:55:53BubblemanI mean, holy shit, we sold a lot of bubble bags and a lot of people started even making their own, started, you know, it created many... Other mom and pop sort of businesses as well, companies that were able to make a living selling bags and promoting the technology. So it was also a cool thing in the sense of how it all started in 1999 in that sense of it opening up.

2:56:21BubblemanIt started way, way before, but it just got to a point where it was now being released to an exponential amount of people. It's just incredible.

2:56:31Etienne FontanClose my mind. Indra, I have a question. What year was your patent?

2:56:34SpeakerWell, I just posted the patent number there in case anybody's doubting.

2:56:40BubblemanAnd where did you post it?

2:56:41SpeakerOh, right on the high chat thing. I say, wait a minute, I have to get back on yours.

2:56:49BubblemanOh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll make sure it goes on to the... I think I've mentioned it to people and they always... I get kind of choked about it.

2:57:01SpeakerThere it is right there.

2:57:05BubblemanOh yeah, there we go. That is number 8,092,752, Apparatus and Method for Oil and Fat Extraction.

2:57:16SpeakerVery cool. That's one of the current patents that I have, that I hold.

2:57:23BubblemanI'm guessing you have a few.

2:57:26SpeakerUm... Well, yeah, but you can get a lot of them, but ones that are successful are a little more difficult to come by. It has to be something that you're not upgrading from somebody else, unless it's a drastic upgrade. Right. The patent guy told me that in order for somebody to improve upon a patent, that it has to It has to be completely different from the patent.

2:57:58SpeakerIt can't just be, well, I do this, plus I also comb it over with goat's hair at the same time. It has to be not obvious to one skilled in the art is the language that they use. So what's obvious to one person is not necessarily obvious to somebody else, but the way that they get around that is to say that one who's suitably skilled in the art, like the inventor, So it has to be non-obvious.

2:58:26SpeakerAnd yeah, there has to be that, I think we said it earlier, that eureka moment of an invention. And as an inventor, you know it. When you've done something new and you'll know it when it happens that it's an invention and that's what you've got to safeguard with a patent. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I had the process worked out 12 years earlier, but finding the right people to approach a patent lawyer and so forth and so on, you know, that patent cost just, I think, $50,000 short of $1 million to file.

2:59:14SpeakerAnd it got filed through the biggest patent lawyers in the United States. They're in the middle of Kansas, and they're our patent attorneys. And those guys, I mean, every fucking time you turn around or say hello to them, it's $500. But they keep that patent in force, and they also deal with infringements that are claimed and so forth. I haven't claimed one infringement case against anybody yet.

2:59:45SpeakerGod knows I could have had grounds for it, but I think everybody needs to have access. I don't think like the government thinks.

2:59:59BubblemanMaybe psychedelics.

3:00:04SpeakerWhat about them?

3:00:05BubblemanI said, maybe you've been eating psychedelics. You don't think like the government thinks.

3:00:11SpeakerYeah, well, absolutely. I mean, in those days, you know, the Brotherhood of Light. I used to go down to People's Park when The Grateful Dead was first starting, and Bear would throw out number 10 cans of joints and hits of acid out to the people in the park. And then they would get into the Grateful Dead because everybody was blasted, right? And they'd start dancing, you know.

3:00:37SpeakerBut yeah, I was in Berkeley in the very earliest of times. I mean, you know, I'm not going to blow my horn or anything, but I was there when you could know Jimi Hendrix, when you could meet the Jefferson Airplane, when you could go to a concert. My wife, Annie... Drew, I don't, you don't have any way of putting up a picture, but when the Grateful Dead had their tour in Jamaica, they put a big front page spread in Berkeley on the Sunday paper, and the skull with the dreadlocks and the rose, which they use all the time, was drawn by my wife, Annie.

3:01:18SpeakerThat's awesome. She drew it on the back of a piece of Grateful Dead stationery, which we still have. That was for the Us Festival, right? Wasn't that for the Us Festival when they were down there? I think so. They never paid us. They never paid her a penny for it, but they've been using it endlessly. But that's how we are. We feel like stuff comes and goes.

3:01:42SpeakerIt bleeds off of us. Something happens that makes us want to give something of ourselves. I spent 14 years in India, and I lived in an ashram. I worked at a free hospital, and I did that because... I needed to. I needed to find out about me, and so I stayed there.

3:02:09BubblemanYeah, a great way to learn about yourself is to be selfless and help others.

3:02:15SpeakerIn between, I would go to Amsterdam and get stoned with you guys.

3:02:20BubblemanWell, we're glad that you did. What a nice trip. Maybe fill a couple of kilos in the shoes and make a quick trip to Amsterdam.

3:02:27SpeakerWell, you know, my friend... John who would go with me all the time. One day we were coming back to Vancouver and I don't know if you remember but the Vancouver airport when you land it from overseas you got off at one end and you had to walk all the way to the other end of the airport to catch a plane to go to Seattle. And when you went right by the front door, when we were going by the front door and we looked up and I said, John, is that the front door?

3:02:56SpeakerI said, let's go catch a cab and go to Seattle. So we did and it worked. So we went right back to India and got a suitcase full of hash and got it all the way to Vancouver, walked out the front door and got in a taxi cab and went across to Seattle with it. We were doing that for a while because it was a wide open scenario.

3:03:16SpeakerI mean, I don't know, they changed the airport by now, but But it was a lot of fun when we were doing it.

3:03:23BubblemanOh, that's amazing. When you find a little thing, you know, John, that is your generation's version of finding an exploit. Yeah. You know, that's an amazing exploit to find. Oh, my God. It's a bummer when you realize they've patched it because often, you know, that usually happens when you're going there the last time that And they've sort of figured it out. But man, to be able to walk out the front door is, that's definitely pre all this terrorism insanity.

3:03:54SpeakerOh, let me tell you, walking out the front door with a suitcase full of Manali hash, you have tingling in your ass like nothing else in the world. Every step you take, you are just shaking and tingling like some, you just, I mean, I can't explain it. When you get in the cab and you close the door and you drive away and you look at each other and you go, and then across the bridge in Seattle when they used to just say, where have you been?

3:04:22SpeakerI was in Vancouver all day. Okay, go.

3:04:25BubblemanThat would still freak me out. At the border, at the U.S., would freak me out as much as flying into Canada, I'm telling you. Like, that was a double whammy for you guys to be doing.

3:04:33SpeakerHoly shit. But back then it was cool. I mean, nobody was looking.

3:04:39BubblemanYeah, exactly. When they're not looking, they're not looking, so it's different. But I guess that's what they call the good old days.

3:04:48SpeakerWell, my grandpa used to tell me, son, if you want to hide sand, take it to the beach.

3:04:57Etienne FontanThat's awesome.

3:04:57SpeakerThat's what we used to do. We used to look for the beach everywhere we went.

3:05:02Etienne FontanThere's something about Berkeley.

3:05:04SpeakerWe did that for a number of years, I have to tell you. I'm ashamed to say. But a lot of people benefited from it because, you know, the Manali hash was epic stuff.

3:05:19BubblemanOh, God, yeah. The Manali, the Parvati hash.

3:05:25SpeakerHey, John, can I ask a question as being someone who's knowledgeable about patents? You know, I read claim number one in your patent. It looks really good. I mean, the attorneys did a really good job on this. Do they give you any sense of, I mean, you could basically send a cease and desist to anyone doing solvent extraction if you hold this patent. I mean, I would only assume that, again, the attorneys that you work with understand that there's a huge industry that practices claim number one here.

3:05:59SpeakerWell, here's the thing. As I said, I have never slapped down ma and pa. You know, the big companies who are involved in this, like the guys that have these billion-dollar warehouses and they're growing a lot, I intend to bend their arm into getting a license from me. And I want to do it for two reasons. One, I wouldn't mind making some money off this since I've never made a fucking penny from it.

3:06:28SpeakerAnd it would be nice at this age and this time in my life to be able to sit down and say, okay, I'm good. Nothing to worry about now. Instead of every fucking day of my life worrying about how to make everything fly. And two, um, The patent is, if you examine it and look at it, it's not only extremely safe, but it's really what we call closed loop.

3:06:53SpeakerAll the bullshit systems that people call closed loop now are just bullshit. But it's not specific to cannabis and it's not specific to cannabinoids and I'm wondering again, can somebody get underneath here with cannabis and cannabinoids? I already talked to those lawyers and they said it doesn't make a rat's ass what oil it is. It's vegetative matter. But anyway, look, I'm not pursuing trying to shut people down.

3:07:20SpeakerRight, right. No, no, no, no. I realize, but I mean, to put a million dollars into getting a patent, is it, you know, it's a big boulder to push up a hill. It is, but, well, look, we did, the very first company we did business with in the middle of Kansas was a Cornell company, and they, that paid us off. We were Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

3:08:14SpeakerI thought, well, okay, I'll let this cat out of the bag because the big guys are still paying for all this. I thought, okay, balance has to come in the world. Too many people... Go through the world like Roman soldiers. Cutting, hacking, raping, stealing, pillaging. And I don't want to do that with my life. I want my life to be something different and something special. Even if I fucking die poor, I'm going to die happy and I'm going to die without any guilt.

3:08:52SpeakerI'm going to peacefully pass away knowing that I did everything right. I never once pursued revenge or never once hurt or hit another person. And I don't want to.

3:09:04BubblemanI like it. You know, I was just thinking maybe the last final words could be for myself or yourself or any person really into extractions. You know, the final extraction. The soul from the body. That might be my tombstone. We'll see.

3:09:20SpeakerWell, dude, if you want to look at this from a cosmic viewpoint, I feel like I'm helping extract some of the good out of the soul of mankind. Okay. The people I'm touching are doing good things. And they're sharing it. And those other people are sharing it. And you get enough people along there, it's kind of like that pay it forward thing. You know? Except for I was doing it a long time before that movie came out.

3:09:48SpeakerBecause I believed when I read and heard about karma. I was brought up on an army base. My dad was in the army. And as soon as I got away from the house, age 17, ended up in Vietnam. Smoked my first joint while someone was shooting at me. And let me tell you, Vietnamese pot, the bullets changed from scary to like bumblebees. And I was smoking it with a black guy.

3:10:14SpeakerWe were throwing it back and forth. And I said, what is this? And he said, it's marijuana. And I'm like, oh shit, I promised my mom I wouldn't do that.

3:10:24SpeakerBut ever since then, what can I say, Ma? Don't flip in your grave. I've been burning the weed. I burn one to you every day, Mom.

3:10:32MrThat's awesome. Hey, I wanted to say thank you very much for joining us today. Mark and I have been talking about you coming on for a long time and for it to really happen. I'm really glad you came on and thank you for all you've done. To listen to where your heart is at with the contributions you made to this community is just fantastic. To find out someone with this With as pure of intention as you is the one behind what has brought so many people content and happiness and ease in their disease is beautiful and thank you.

3:11:08SpeakerI appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. I'm happy I could be the instrument for the divine will of the cosmos.

3:11:17Etienne FontanWell, we in the cosmos thank you for dabbling your toe into the waters and You know, know that we in Berkeley, we're keeping it still going in Berkeley because there's something about that city that's always about paying it forward. So we're still educating and again, as I said before, you know, you're a vet, I'm a vet, many vets get help from your medicine. So thank you very much on my behalf and their behalf as well.

3:11:41Etienne FontanJust humbled and honored to have you on. Standing on your shoulders.

3:11:45SpeakerAre you reading your pack? Is there a way like just quickly on someone like

3:11:54Etienne FontanYou went mute. You muted yourself.

3:11:57SpeakerSorry. Is there a way that someone like myself could make this whole process you're doing for a home gun that's going to be safe other than extractions that are out there that are being offered through all these valve companies and stuff? We do carry a lot of these products. We sell them at a couple of gardening stores. Well, let me say all of the systems that they're selling are inherently flawed.

3:12:21SpeakerBut having said that, If you secure a space that is ventilated from the lowest point in the room and the room is cleared out once every 10 seconds, Even if the fucking ding leaks, or if you should have a catastrophic failure because a lot of these people sell these systems with less than the proper O-rings. They sell you shitty O-rings, Chinese O-rings, and you want to avoid this and get German or American O-rings.

3:12:59SpeakerAnd these glasses that you get that are ports to look in there, you should only get those from Germany. Thank you for watching.

3:13:28SpeakerIf you've done it right and you've got good fittings and good O-rings and you feel like you're safe to go ahead. The other thing I would recommend is if you read the patent, you'll notice that I use the solvent as a temperature attenuator. If you read it, I can adjust the solvent hotter or colder depending on what fraction I want. And that's done relatively easily as well and it gives you a great deal more control over the patent because you can drive the temperature way down and you get this phenomenon called adiabatic cooling.

3:14:09SpeakerAnd while that cooling is taking place, you can then turn the recovery machine on and the recovery machine will make the solvent and the pot boil. It'll boil at a very low temperature if you create the proper setup. When it boils like that, you're going to get 100% extraction of everything out of it. And when you then drain that into your lower chamber and recover from it, your oil will be clean.

3:14:41SpeakerIt'll be very, very clean if you do it that way.

3:14:47SpeakerSo John, you're saying that the current closed loop systems that are available, that are currently being used in Colorado and in Washington and Oregon that are using, I think they do use high grade O-rings and stuff. I mean, I'm not speaking for them particularly, but I'm saying that I think that all of those things right now, in your view, don't meet Um, adequate performance? Is, is, is that what I'm hearing?

3:15:21SpeakerNo, I'm not saying all of them. I'm saying the ones that are sourced from China are, uh, the ones that are sourced from South America are the ones that are sourced from, uh, Africa and Egypt, um, are all second grade stuff and I wouldn't use them to, to protect my life. Instead, the ones made in Germany which cost a little extra will make, make it a lot safer.

3:15:48SpeakerThe fittings on the things themselves, you just want to get the best ones. You don't want to get Chinese fittings. I've seen fractured fittings. I've seen these things burned. A lot of friends send stuff to me and show me systems that have failed. And when you see some of them, you wonder what led up to that. How did that? You know, sometimes a little thing can cause the whole system to fail.

3:16:16SpeakerThere's not enough fail-safes built into those systems. Those systems are made to do one thing, put stuff in the top, let gas in it, let it in the bottom, and recover it. And that's the whole sum of what they do. There's no blow-off valves. The blow-off valves should be, of course, hooked to a hose, which is vented outside. And they're just not safe if, you know... When I run our equipment, I run it, I set the equipment up and then we fill the room with nitrogen gas.

3:16:49SpeakerAnd there's no way that there's going to be an explosion or a fire in that room filled with nitrogen gas. We just have oxygen masks we put on so that we can be in the room at the same time. And I'm 100%. You know, there was a fire in Switzerland and a textile factory burned down around my little shop that I had. And in my little shop, I had a 500 liter container of liquid nitrogen.

3:17:14SpeakerAnd the factory burned down all around it. And you could see where the fire tried to come into the room. But the fire got hot enough to boil the nitrogen off and made that room fireproof. And the fire guys were like, oh, we must investigate you. Why your room didn't burn? I'm like, yeah, well, because there was nitrogen in there and the fire couldn't enter the room.

3:17:37SpeakerBut... That, you know, that whole factory, which was a textile factory, burned so hot that the steel beams in the roof melted down onto the floor. But the room that was full of nitrogen did not burn. So, you know, you can look at that a couple different ways. The nitrogen made it safe and simple and...

3:18:03SpeakerRight, we're talking about two different things. You're talking about the room itself. Right now the current standard in Colorado is a class one, div one room, right? I mean, this is basically how the rooms are built. Yeah, explosion proof is what they're supposed to be built like. And there is a certain amount of CFM that has to be constantly going through the room, like you say, to sweep out any residual butane and all of the...

3:18:31SpeakerElectrical appliances, whether they're switches or lights, they all have to be shielded because of sparks and all that kind of thing. But the point is, I think that the industry has come a long way in trying to safeguard solvent extraction in these facilities. And my view of the equipment is that, maybe you're a little more experienced than I am, is that they are using all the best equipment Plumbing and all the best seals and all the best O-rings.

3:19:04SpeakerI don't know of anyone who's still in business who's using shoddy stuff from China. Well, you would be surprised at how much material is misdirected and comes from China. But the whole idea is... You know, safety and safety. Absolutely. No, no, I totally agree. But you were talking about parts on the extractor themselves. Well, here's an example. And also talking about the room. Those are really two separate things.

3:19:38SpeakerThe extractor in the room is really. Well, here's an example. I have another patent on a valve that. That you set inside the chamber where the butane comes up that tells the system when it's got enough butane in it and to shut off so that it doesn't overfill. That valve is actually a tuning fork that is mounted inside the chamber and when the gas raises up and hits the tuning fork it can no longer vibrate at 440 cycles and that activates a magnetic switch on the outside of the chamber which then shuts down the gas flow inside.

3:20:16SpeakerAnd that is what I call a safe switch. And some of the other switches and stuff that I have seen are caveman and deplorable by comparison. I know these guys who are doing extraction think, oh, I've been doing it for a few years, I'm a fucking expert. But look, I've been doing it for 30 years. The patent is in my name. If it was in your name, fine.

3:20:38SpeakerTell me something that I don't know. But if it's not in your name, you know, listen to what I'm saying because all I'm saying is you need to be as safe as possible. And I see a lot of people doing it in a very unsafe manner. If it's you, if the full shits wear it, you know, it's the old joke, right?

3:20:56BubblemanWell, you know, right now, even in the chat room, someone just said, oh, I'm really glad we're able to have this conversation. Thanks, Bubble Man. I know you're probably hating this conversation. I'm like, no, dude, I never hated on BHO. I hated on the explosions and the poisons and all the negative that... Andrew used to tell me about, he would say, none of this, the community is not listening to me.

3:21:17BubblemanDo you think you could use your voice and let people know? But I came across super biased. It was like, I've always said the right people should be making it the right way. That's all I've ever said.

3:21:29SpeakerYeah, well, I agree with you. And if you know, if you're really safe and you know exactly what you're doing, more power to you. Like I said, I've never, I'm not going to go bang on those guys in Seattle and say, hey, you're using my process, stop or pay me, you know. That's not my goal. My goal is that we stop hurting each other over getting high because that fucking cancels out the good part of being high when somebody is getting hurt.

3:21:57SpeakerAnd I don't want any fucking body hurt anymore. The hurt thing is stuff our government does. It's stuff the military does. It's stuff criminals and bad people do. And I think the dynamic in the world has got to change into people who consciously decide no hurt, no more hurt, enough of the hurt crap, you know. And if that means that I have to say, look, this isn't safe, don't do it, brother.

3:22:26SpeakerCount on me to be there and say it, you know. I look at systems for people and I'll tell them whether or not, you know, hey, is this really safe or not? Because you can think a system's safe until the day it blows up in your face. And that is the God's honest gospel, man. And, you know, I've had a couple of people who are kind of close to me get hurt and, you I just, you know, I don't want any, no more hurt, man.

3:22:56SpeakerYou know, I was in Vietnam. I was a combat field medic. I can't tell you how much shit that I saw and how much hurt I saw people go through. And, you know, I don't want to bring that in the world. I want to bring something good, man. You know, everybody can bring something good to this by just practicing. If you think you're safe, make yourself a checklist and check it again.

3:23:21SpeakerMaybe you're not. Have somebody else check your checklist. Have somebody else watch you do it once to make sure you ain't fucking fooling yourself. There you go. Because when you fool yourself is when the fucking accidents happen. That's when the little spark or the little fire, you know. I mean, it's so important not to fool yourself. And so, you know, these are the things that I'm big on, you know.

3:23:49BubblemanWell, I'm really glad that you're sharing it with our audience, man. We got like 700, 800 people listening and the chat room seems really stoked on it. Often, you know, it's like you're one of the only people that could really be saying this at this point in time because, you know, whether people want to admit it or not, like, and I hear people all the time tell me they were making it in 93 and 95 and I'm like, I bet you're, you know, you're probably mistaken.

3:24:16BubblemanYou probably started doing it in 99. If you were right on the ball.

3:24:24SpeakerThat was my third patent in 1999. I was doing it in 1978. Jesus. It's been a while. But you have to understand, in 1978, handling liquid butane was a whole other thing. Buying stuff and buying the right seals and shit. Picnic gas, okay.

3:24:47SpeakerBut you're talking about putting liquid in a chamber with something else and letting it out and recovering. It means the chamber's got to be sealed against pressure and vacuum, a mystery that a lot of people are not able to solve. You get enough oxygen stuck back in your fucking butane tank and you can't purge it or you don't understand, boom. It lowers the pressure, it lowers the temperature and the pressure at which butane will self-ignite.

3:25:17SpeakerBy about 35 or 40 degrees, which is kind of scary. 245 is, you know, already scary, but when you lower it down to 220 or 210, yow.

3:25:31KeokiYeah, here at our farm, we're definitely big into the closed-loop extraction safety. And one of my big goals as an extraction technician in Washington State, right now we only have our extraction machines themselves certified and we're not doing any sort of certification process for the extractor themselves as a person. And I've talked to the Washington State Liquor Control Board as well as extraction machine manufacturers about this subject and the Liquor Control Board has basically said that's beyond their scope.

3:26:03KeokiThank you so much for joining us.

3:26:26KeokiAnd things like that. And of course dealing with passive and active extractions differently and having different certifications for both as well as CO2 extractions, distillate, stuff like that. But that's further in the future.

3:26:41SpeakerWell, I can tell you that the Attorney General in Washington, our lawyers have talked with them. And they very much so are interested in a certification and a training program. And also the AG in Colorado is, and the California AG is very interested in it. Because you're right, we need a national certification. And that's what I'm hoping to pull together, that you would be... Trained and know what the fuck you were doing and talking about.

3:27:21SpeakerAnd that would be, in the end, that would be my dream to be able to make that come about and happen. So that people, instead of asking what's wrong with my setup, you could learn the whole thing and then you could turn around with an eye to look at your setup and say, well, let's see, what is wrong with this setup?

3:27:44KeokiYep, I agree 100%. I would love to help you with that endeavor.

3:27:49SpeakerI really want to put the time and effort into it. I've been doing it for a long time. I'm hoping that by the end of my days, somehow there's a payoff for me. But if there's no money payoff, there's the payoff of knowing that a lot of fucking people didn't get burned, didn't explode themselves, didn't do something that wasn't good with it.

3:28:11KeokiYeah, I agree. And as far as I heard you say earlier, I was watching that there's not a lot of machines out there that are safe. I agree with that 100%. I actually had to modify the machine That I came in here to run, I got this job about a year ago now, and when I came in here, the extraction, the recovery pumps had been like full of hash.

3:28:30KeokiThere was no molecular seed before, and they were like pulling through liquid solvent with additional hash through our recovery pumps, and it was running at like almost 200 degrees with a bunch of carbon buildup inside. I had to take the whole thing apart, clean it up, and stuff like that. So there definitely needs to be education Thank you for joining us.

3:29:13SpeakerYou know, but we don't, we're not practicing that. None of those machines being made have I seen any kind of pop-off or safety valves.

3:29:23KeokiYeah, I've never seen a pressure relief valve. I've only seen, there's companies that sell aftermarket stuff like that so you can upgrade your machines and I mean it really shouldn't be an upgrade to be safe and they also have like Inline pressure relief valves that can go instead of to atmosphere, it can go to a separate collection tank that you have, say, vacuumed out and or like in a cooling bath so that pressure will go into another tank rather than outside into the atmosphere.

3:29:49SpeakerRight. Those are all safety things that nobody seems to be paying attention to right now. And that's why all of the explosions and fires, it's a result of that sort of nonsense, not paying attention. Thank you for joining us.

3:30:31SpeakerYou know, the world has got to wake up to the fact that some things are safe, some things aren't. And right now, there's too many people selling that equipment, and a lot of it is bogus. I would like to see a standard in the equipment.

3:30:44KeokiYes, that would definitely be a big step.

3:30:48SpeakerAnd it should all be, much as I hate to say it, because I hate fucking laws and law dogs more than anybody on the planet, it needs to be a set of rules that we all operate under, you know? And you know that you're going to be safe because you're using rule set A. Yep, definitely. And that's what I hope for. Just have to wait and see.

3:31:10SpeakerShit, every day I wake up it's bonus round for me. I'm 70.

3:31:17BubblemanHey, well you got like 30, 40 years easy.

3:31:20SpeakerSays you.

3:31:23BubblemanTrue enough. That is definitely my opinion. Well, we'll hope for at least 30 or 40 more. I can only imagine what you may or may not come up with another three or four decades on the planet.

3:31:35SpeakerYeah, there's some surprises. I mean, a little bit later down the road, maybe I'll let some secrets out that everybody will drool about.

3:31:44BubblemanWell, I definitely want to invite you and your son down to Jamaica and meet with us and finally meet you in person and just discuss the future.

3:31:55SpeakerYeah, I definitely have to bring him along because I'm I guess I'm getting a little feeble at 70. I mean, I had a tough life. I was shot in Vietnam. I survived that. I've had numerous abdominal operations. I've got diabetes, Asian Orange Diabetes, PTSD, DBD. My stuff hangs to the left when it should hang to the right and other things.

3:32:24BubblemanWell, shit, that's just a well-lived life right there.

3:32:28SpeakerYeah.

3:32:29MrWell, you are a breath of fresh air. I always wondered, honestly. I saw the posting go up in 99, and I always wondered, and I'm glad that I finally got to be part of the conversation when you finally came and, you know, let the world hear your voice and came from, listening from your perspective, it's really great. I'm just really happy that you're the person that brought so much joy into the world with this.

3:32:59SpeakerWell, thank you. Believe me, it was a very joyful time for me to realize that I could be an instrument that would do that. You know, way years earlier, a long time earlier, I was working with a friend in Berkeley who was the originator of the original hug drug. And that was sort of a Hello to me as to the world because when I tried that my heart chakra burst open and I loved everybody and 15 hours later I started to come down and I'm like what the fuck you mean I could be that high and I'm not going to stay that high where I saw everyone I saw I loved I wait I want to go back to that and so I you know my whole life has been like something that feels good And if it doesn't feel good, make it feel good.

3:34:02KeokiYeah, I definitely wanted to say thank you. I appreciate all the knowledge you've given the community, and I definitely want to be here today doing what I'm doing for a living.

3:34:10SpeakerThis is my dream job, so thank you. You're welcome. I'm glad you're having a good time with it.

3:34:17MrVery cool, very cool. Can I ask one last, at least, because I know we usually wrap a lot earlier than this, but you've been a real joy to have on. Terpenes. Have you applied any of this knowledge into your separation or extraction of terpenes along with cannabinoids?

3:34:36SpeakerWell, you know, the terpenes, everything is full of terpenes. I mean, it's not the exclusive domain of pot. Terpenes are what provide smells and flavors in all kinds of foods and flowering foods. So, the The thing you hear people saying all the time about supercritical terpenes is kind of a bastardization of two things. One, using supercritical gas to obtain them, and two, terpenes. There's not really a supercritical terpene.

3:35:12SpeakerThe more critical a terpene is, the more smell, the more taste it may have or it imparts to you. But it's made to vaporize and go into your nose and into your body, and so... It's not... They make the stuff taste and smell good. I mean, God bless those terpenes, you know?

3:35:35BubblemanHell yeah!

3:35:37SpeakerI use... I feed everything through a molecular sieve because... When the oil comes out, it is butt loaded. And plus, if you do it at the right temperature, I guess I'm going to let a little secret out here. If you can find the right temperature and do it at the right temperature, what will happen is you will get a lot of the THC that is most voluminous in the extract Well, I summarize up to a higher kind of THC and therefore making the oil much more, you know, hallucinogenic, peaceful, higher.

3:36:22SpeakerI have to ask about this. What is this? You're isomerizing THCA? Well, at a certain temperature, you're isomerizing it from one level to another level, which is far less present normally. Okay, so that would be Delta 9 to Delta 8? Is that right? Yes. And this is spontaneous at the right temperature. Right. Now, all you got to do is figure out what temperature that is, and you'll be sitting pretty.

3:36:55SpeakerRight, but Delta 8 is less active than Delta 9, isn't that right? Well, I mean, there's all kinds of stories, but once you have a pipe load of it, then I welcome all comments. Because I think I have it as a regular thing, and I've tried all of it from everybody, every way, and...

3:37:22SpeakerWhat happens to it at this temperature to me is the hand of the cosmos reaching down and stroking it. And it just makes it an excellent, excellent, excellent thing to put in your body. And then I have one of these things that was made in the 60s, this guy who made these wooden boxes with the very first vaporizers. It's a wooden box and there's a glass pipe down inside of it and you use a hair dryer on the top and that thing makes the most amazing vapor when you put this oil on a bud and stick it in that.

3:38:05SpeakerIt's just, I don't know, it's just, you know, it's the best of the best. If you had it once, you wouldn't want to be without it anymore. Like some of Mark's fine tools, Bubbles, I'll call him. Bubble Boy.

3:38:29BubblemanI was muted. Hey, we've got to say hello to Jen Doe. We haven't even welcomed her into the room. I hope you don't mind, Jen. Indra has been telling us interesting stories. We got caught up.

3:38:42BubblemanOh, is she gone now?

3:38:43SpeakerNot me. No, she's right there. I see her.

3:38:46BubblemanOkay. Well, welcome, Jen, to the room. Yes. I don't know. She's gone now or something.

3:38:54MrIt has been. This conversation has been one of my favorite in Hash Church history, in my opinion. I've always, you know, to see all the things that are changing now, to see the butters and the medicines and the way that it's being used in foods, it's fantastic. The way we're able to control our cannabinoid dose and the way that this is bidding, you know, cannabinoids, real cannabinoids into the hands of people for real medical benefit.

3:39:23SpeakerIt's a shame our government took out all those patents and then has the balls to turn around and tell us that it has no medical use, isn't it?

3:39:32MrNo. I always believed they didn't believe their own lies. And that proved it, that while they were lying to us, they were patenting the things they said were not able to happen.

3:39:43SpeakerWell, and they've now licensed that patent exclusively to Canada Life in Doylestown, Pennsylvania. Yeah, I know. So the government's actually collecting licensing revenue back on that patent.

3:39:56MrWell, now we take the power back. It's through information sharing, and it's really through people understanding what's going on that's going to put any stop to the corruption in our politics.

3:40:09SpeakerThat's my dream, but you know what? I just don't know. You know, it's hard to understand abject greed. And that seems to be what we're all dealing with. When things happen that everybody's against, but it still happens, you have to realize that somewhere there's a greedy man making it happen.

3:40:32BubblemanIndeed.

3:40:36SpeakerAt the cost of all of us.

3:40:39BubblemanYeah. You back in the room? You're unfrozen?

3:40:43SpeakerYeah, it kicked me off.

3:40:46BubblemanOh, snap.

3:40:48SpeakerYeah, I think you were frozen, actually, because I was talking to you and you were just like... Yeah, it froze and then it kicked me off. I'm still having a little bit of internet issues, but it's working-ish.

3:41:00BubblemanIt's been a while. How are you doing?

3:41:03SpeakerI'm good. Just living.

3:41:06BubblemanExcellent. Well, we've just been having a really nice conversation with Indra. He's been telling us just great things. I've also very much enjoyed this Hash Church. We're building up to Hash Church 100 here really soon.

3:41:21SpeakerVery nice. I caught a small blurb about the spray. What was he talking about? The spray to counteract the cops? I actually thought of that when I was living in Utah because... All the time they stop you and they're like, I smell weed, even if there's no weed. So I've always wanted to come up with perfume and call it Ode to Mary Jane, so that same thing.

3:41:46SpeakerSo I think that's absolutely awesome that somebody is able to get into doing that. Yeah, we have some partners and they want to produce it in a big way and distribute it nationally because it effectively takes that power out of the hands of the police. Absolutely. And being from a completely illegal state where it's absolutely terrifying, if you get caught with a seed, you can go to jail for six months.

3:42:13SpeakerYeah, that takes out a lot of probable cause.

3:42:16BubblemanIs Utah that state you're talking about? What? Is it Utah you're speaking of? Yeah.

3:42:24SpeakerYeah, it's rough. I had a friend that he got caught with less than this much in the tip of a baggie. And he got out of jail. Thank goodness. He still had to spend like a week in jail. But they put him on probation for like a year, two years, I think it was. And it wasn't even enough to smoke. It would have sucked right through a bowl hole.

3:42:47SpeakerIt's ridiculous.

3:42:50BubblemanNot enough to puff.

3:42:52SpeakerYeah. So taking out probable cause any possible way is fuck yes.

3:43:01MrWell, hey, I've got to jump. It has been such a pleasure. This has been one of my favorite house churches, like I've just said 18 times. Mark, thank you for making this happen. Sir, thank you for joining us. Mark, thanks for being there. Jen, thanks for coming on for a little while today. I hope everybody has a great day, and I hope you join us again sometime.

3:43:20MrYou are such an asset in sharing your knowledge, and I hope you feel the urge to do it more.

3:43:29SpeakerSure. I've been open to it for a long time. I just, I had to finally borrow a headphone with a microphone on it from my wife today. And so I guess I'm going to break down and spend 20 bucks and get one. And that's what happens when you're 70. You know, how much? $20. Jesus Christ, you know. So I will go buy one and then I'll be glad to do it anytime you guys want and answer as many questions as I can as long as it's along the line of making things safer and helping the community out.

3:44:09SpeakerI'm happy to do that.

3:44:11MrIf that doesn't sum up the Bible House Church, I don't know what does. So thank you again for being so So great a person, and also such a great contribution. Thank you on so many levels.

3:44:23SpeakerAbsolutely. I've really enjoyed listening to all this, so thank you.

3:44:29BubblemanIt was a good church for sure. It's been almost four hours. I've got a nice relaxing day. I just had a friend actually text me, and he said, do you want to break this in with me? And he's got this...

3:44:46SpeakerI hope you said yes.

3:44:48BubblemanI did say yes. In fact, that's why I'm going to do the same thing as Todd. I want to thank everyone for coming in. Jen, we'll have to get you in earlier next week. Thank D420K and Phil and Johnny B up in PG right now with D420K's old man as well. I saw him on the couch. Thanks Etienne and Mark Scaldone and Todd McCormick. And of course, thank you Indra for coming in and laying it down and then promising us that you're going to go and buy a headphone and be able to show up again is even better.

3:45:21BubblemanI'm excited. I didn't expect such a great Hash Church today. Thank you Chris for coming in from the clear and talking with Mr. Scaldone. Chemistry in the early parts of the show, that was really fun. I had a great show. Thank you guys for coming in and enjoying. Hey, Mark.

3:45:38SpeakerWhat's up? If I send you pictures, can you show them on the show?

3:45:44BubblemanYep, absolutely. I can put them up on Hash Church for now, but in the very near future, like say if we do another show next week, you send me a bunch of pictures, I can put them up while you're talking about them.

3:45:57SpeakerAll right. I just would like to... Publish a revolutionary way to make, grow your plants and maximize. And it's not one, very few people, if any, are using it. And I'd like to share it with the planet, just like the oil thing.

3:46:18BubblemanWell, that'd be great. We could do that next episode and make a plan for it and just set it all up so we know it can be as good as possible.

3:46:25SpeakerI'll send you the pictures. You can look them over and then you can tell me if you want to put it on.

3:46:30BubblemanAwesome, dude. I know I already do.

3:46:34SpeakerAll right. Well, hey, thanks for listening to a boring old man, guys. Yeah, right. Appreciate it.

3:46:40BubblemanThanks for being an awesome dude, and thank you, everyone, for watching Hash Church out there. I know this one's going to be over 10,000 hits in less than a week. See you guys next week for Episode 97, where Indra shares another revolutionary concept. Peace out, everybody.

3:46:56SpeakerBye-bye.