Barcelona Trip Canceled, D-Nail Stories, and Epilepsy Advocacy

0:03BubblemanHey, what's up everybody? Welcome to Hash Church episode 128. I'm not going to lie, we did have a few technical difficulties today. It seems as though the link that we originally started with was corrupt and it would not raise past 99%. So give me a second while I send out these links and we get our people invited into the room. And welcome everybody. I hope you're having a wonderful Sunday.

0:32BubblemanWhat do you say, Todd? I'm glad it's working.

0:38SpeakerSweat off. What's up, Johnny, me? Hi, you know, looking at the beautiful snowstorm outside.

0:46BubblemanAll right. Very good.

0:48Etienne FontanVery good.

0:49BubblemanWelcome, Hemp Guy. Oh, mute your mic if you're going to move your camera around, Johnny B. It's very loud. Thanks, brother. Thank you. Thank you. Well, that was a little nerve-wracking. I'm not going to lie. I was having some difficulties. I couldn't get it to load past 99. I got my back up. I got Todd, who's always got my back. He's like, don't worry. I got this.

1:09BubblemanIt wouldn't go past 99 for him either. So I guess it was a bit of a glitch in the app. And so here we are. Skunk Man Sam, Johnny B, Todd McCormick, all in the house. None of us in Barcelona. Sad times. Sad, sad times. I have so many people here.

1:30Hemp GuyAy caramba, you mean I'm not in Barcelona?

1:35BubblemanNo, you're not in Barcelona. You are in, geez, I don't know where you are. Where are you right now? Are you in Mexico? Amsterdam. Amsterdam. Of course you're in Amsterdam. Well, we almost made it. It was a close one. Geez, we almost got there.

1:52Hemp GuyDid you do something about the hotel reservations?

1:57BubblemanNo, it's a weekend, so there's nothing I can do until Monday. Oh, okay. Yeah, so we'll sort that out for sure. We'll get it all sorted out.

2:06Hemp GuyBecause I talked to them and they told me that it's on your credit card and if I want to check in and, you know, bill everything to the room, it's fine with them.

2:18BubblemanYes, well, you know what's funny? If you actually went there, they would say that nothing has been put on the credit card and it was just a hold. They always say that you've paid with your credit card and then you get there and you're like, go to get into your room and they're like, we need your credit card. I'm like, well, I already paid with my credit card.

2:34BubblemanNo, no, that was just a hold. Now we need to run your credit card. I'm like, all right, whatever. Either way, we're not going to be there. Sad times. Etienne, how are you, my friend, in Barcelona?

2:46Etienne FontanI was just at headquarters and they just told me the news, so I was just like, oh, shit.

2:52SpeakerMark, he called me crying. He called me literally in tears, crying. I couldn't believe it.

2:59Etienne FontanBummer.

3:00Hemp GuyWhat's this? I jump into Hash Church, the bad news, right off the bat? What's wrong?

3:04Etienne FontanYeah, apparently Marcus isn't coming to Barcelona.

3:09BubblemanWhoa. Nope, nope, not in the position to make that happen right now, unfortunately, but hey, next year, there's always next year. In the meantime, I'm going to blow smoke towards the Vatican with some full melt dry sift that I cleaned up the other day on a nice, clean sapphire. How nice is a clean sapphire?

3:33Hemp GuyHey, I like you guys.

3:41BubblemanThat was almost all four of you guys talking at the same time. That was awesome.

3:45SpeakerEverybody, all at the same time. Ready?

3:48BubblemanOkay, yeah, we're going to talk.

3:54Etienne FontanI'd like to dedicate this to my dad who passed away this week. This is to Joe Smith. Joe Smith, you're in our thoughts.

4:03BubblemanGone but never forgotten. Gone but never forgotten.

4:09BubblemanOh, I should turn my D-mail on so I can have a rip.

4:15BubblemanThat'll be helpful. That'll be helpful. Turn that shit up.

4:21Hemp GuyYou know, mine's only 450, so two of us did it.

4:26BubblemanYeah, I can't believe how many people were... We're upset about missing the Barcelona trip. It was a real bummer. There's a large group of good people there. Definitely going to be... Sorry, guys. I just got to mute you. There you go. While you cough your faces off. Definitely going to miss everyone. You know, it's one of those times a year that we really get to see everyone with the Cannabis Cup.

4:51BubblemanSort of no more in Amsterdam. Barcelona was really the big one where we got to see, you know, our European family as well as people from maybe some other countries that that's one of the one stops they sort of make on this, you know, not really making the North American events. So it's always nice to get out to Barcelona. I definitely look forward to getting back there next year.

5:12BubblemanAnd also enjoying everyone's social media and hearing about the Masters Cup. Of course, Lorenzo, Nerd Creations, rocking that event. And with all the best clubs, really. La Calata, HQ, Wee Flowers, those are the top three right there.

5:26Etienne FontanI was just with Lorenzo not 20 minutes ago, right before I got here. He sends his hello. Ah, nice, nice. Say hello. He's the one who told me that you weren't coming. I'm like, no, you're bullshitting me, and that's when I... I hit you up and that's just how it goes. But yeah, look, man, it looks to be very, very nice. They look to be getting things going here.

5:49Etienne FontanSpanibus posters all over the place here in Barcelona. So, hey guys, Skunk Man, I hope, are you still coming? Will I get to see you?

5:59Hemp GuyNo, no. Tony and Marcus and I were going flying in together and they canceled. So, so did I.

6:09BubblemanIt was a full cancel.

6:12Etienne FontanSolo it is.

6:14BubblemanSolo it is. Well, you'll have a great time. There's some great people there. And I know the Sasquatch crew is going to come out. You should definitely link up with Matt and Joel and those guys. Real good fun over there.

6:26Hemp GuyI was looking forward to seeing you. And now I won't. But Ryan said he'll be down there for one or two nights.

6:36Etienne FontanCool. I'll look for him.

6:39BubblemanExcellent. Excellent. All right. Well, I think my D-nail is appropriately heated up for a rip now. If anyone wants to join me, I'll be over here with the mothership ripping it up.

6:55SpeakerHave you heard about any events happening with Franco with a little celebration of his life or anything? I mean, He was the one guy that didn't matter that he was in competition with so many of the other vendors and such, but everybody loved him. I don't know of anybody who didn't like Franco.

7:16Etienne FontanI just literally, I got in last night and my first place stop was HQ, so really got nothing that I have heard thus far. The only thing I heard was the thing, potentially Legends, where we're going to attempt to honor him, but that's changed, so I have No idea. If anybody does, please hit me up, text me up. I'm on Instagram, ATN420. The letter's ATN420. And yeah, I want to give a shout out actually to D-Nail.

7:45Etienne FontanI'm using their EU unit, which is working like a charm out here.

7:51BubblemanThey finally got an EU unit?

7:54Etienne FontanYep, I'm rolling with 221.2. And I'm using my motherfucker. This is my motherfucker glass. This is a TOEF and D-REC.

8:05BubblemanOh, nice, dude. Yeah, that looks great.

8:06Etienne FontanYeah, it says motherfucker across the...

8:12BubblemanI always used Dabinator when I went to Europe just because it was so easy to plug in the... All I did was plug in the European plug and it worked.

8:23SpeakerThat's awesome. Didn't we burn out a few D-nails in the beginning? I think we did in Amsterdam. Well, I did for sure.

8:35BubblemanWhat's that?

8:37SpeakerI was waiting to give some to Alan Dronkers and I got all the way there. I got up there with the D-nail. He was sitting at the table. I set everything up. I pulled out the shatter. I got everything ready. I turned it on. And the denail got super red and then the power went off everywhere. And I actually had a moment where I was going to actually do the dab because I didn't want to waste the heat of the nail.

9:01SpeakerBut I had this moment where I felt like Alan's going to think I turned into some type of pot crack head and I don't want that to happen. So I just watched the thing go cold and I just sat there and I was like, how do we turn the power back on?

9:17BubblemanDid you blow just the whip or did you actually burn out the denail as well? Because often it's just the whip that will burn out immediately from the...

9:26SpeakerI had a denail and they sent me a whip and it wasn't the whip, the actual denail was burned out.

9:33BubblemanI got luckier. I have a video on... My bubble man's world, where I roll up, I'm in Amsterdam, it's at the Krasnopolsky at my hotel suite, and I'm talking, and I'm like, all right, everybody, and I turn it on, and you see me kind of preparing, and then you see me go over to the D now and go, what the fuck? You kind of hear me go, what?

9:53Hemp GuyNo. No!

9:56BubblemanAnd then I'm just like, right, I kept it all on camera because I thought, man, I have to show people this. This is just too fucking heartbreaking. So I pooched the denail. I'm sitting there like fucking almost crying. And then I'm like, maybe it's just the whip. And I brought an extra whip. And then I remembered, right, it's like I got a call down and get this converter, which literally weighs 30 pounds.

10:17BubblemanIt's like this giant fucking magnet that I was carrying around with me, if you guys remember, in a suitcase with my denail and everything I'd Carrie, that's us too.

10:26SpeakerRemember me and ATN both had them.

10:29Etienne FontanI had, well, yeah, last time we were here, I had, we all carried them around. I had to, I had this pay extra in my luggage because it weighed, You know, practically the 50 pound limit was the damn converter box itself. Right.

10:43BubblemanSo you can imagine from my perspective for three plus years carrying that box around back and forth to the cannabis cup and then Dabinator coming out with the unit. This was the first unit he gave me with my logo blasted onto it.

10:57SpeakerHe gives me this unit and I'm like, well, what do I have to do? He says, just plug in the European plug.

11:02BubblemanI'm like, come on, that's it? Like I can use a Canadian plug in Canada and a European plug in Europe and that's it? It's all being done inside the box? He's like, yes. So that was it. I was forever sold on Dabinator as my travel unit because I don't want to have to carry special things.

11:18Hemp GuyI don't want to have something that only- The other thing that's nice about a Dabinator is it works with 12 volt.

11:25BubblemanYeah, that's exactly the final point that Sam just made, which really sort of took it over for me. I can use my Dabinator with my little portable battery, and the D-Nail pulls so much power, I can't even get it to heat up on a portable battery.

11:41Hemp GuyI can say I left my Dabinator on for the last year and a half, two years, and big shout out to Dabinator.

11:50BubblemanIt's reliable. Yeah, shout out to Maximilian for sure. I actually came down today and my denail was just sitting on. It was like I was cleaning it overnight and I forgot and I came down and it was like at a thousand degrees glowing red. Clean that fucking thing beautifully though, I'll tell you that much.

12:11SpeakerNow the question is just like myself, how many dabs have you done off a thousand dabs? A degree D-nail because I did one the other day. Wow.

12:18BubblemanYanni B, you're the king of thousand degree D-nails. I'm not going to lie.

12:23SpeakerOh, hold on. Damn, I'm cleaning that thing. Saying no to glowy. A little hit right there. Just if you want a big hit from the heel to a thousand, yeah, you'll definitely feel it.

12:35Etienne FontanSomebody needs to make a shirt saying no to glowy. Seriously. No, no, that's bad. That's naughty, naughty. That's going to hurt your lungs.

12:44BubblemanOh yeah, it's a killer. I want to welcome Forrest into the room, and I believe we just had Wade. Is that Wade in the house there? No sound for you, Wade?

13:00ForrestI've got sound here. How are you guys doing?

13:02BubblemanHey, welcome, Forrest. How are you doing?

13:04ForrestHey, doing good, guys. Thanks for having me.

13:06BubblemanDude, thanks for coming in with a professional microphone and headphones, dude.

13:11ForrestYeah, well, hey, it's not my first rodeo. I just had to bust out, you know, the good stuff for you guys, round one.

13:16BubblemanDude, much appreciated. I was hoping Tony was going to be in here to kind of give you guys a proper introduction, but, well, maybe you can give yourself a little introduction and, you know, what you guys have been up to here in this wonderful world of ours.

13:33ForrestYeah, well, no problem. We're up here in Nevada County, and I was...

13:41ForrestThank you for joining us.

13:57ForrestOne of those rare forms of epilepsy. He has Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome, which is one of the few approved conditions that are horrific enough for Epidiolex and other medicines to get FDA approval. And when they started putting those cultivation bands in place, essentially the medicines that worked for him were very special, custom made. They weren't the standard CBDs that people associate with. With kids with epilepsy. So when they started banning things, you know, all around the county, I started to really get active with advocating for These kids and adults who, you know, needed cannabis medicine for not just pain conditions, but some of them for terminal and life threatening conditions.

14:46ForrestAnd long story short, we ended up with the help of a lot of folks raising enough money and fighting hard enough to switch Nevada County from a red to a blue county. And then Thank you so much for joining us.

15:28ForrestReally switch the conversation of morality and ethics that people like to hold when it comes to cannabis and turn that mirror around in the face of the prohibitionists and really show them the suffering of children and adults, people who are dying out there and kind of hold up a mirror and let them know that if they're going to Thank you so much for joining us.

16:13ForrestWe have the moral and ethical high ground when it comes to medical cannabis and we just need the right people to be able to articulate that message so that we can get some protection for those who need it. From, you know, yeah, that's kind of where we went from there, and from there we started organizations to help protect those kids as well.

16:32BubblemanWell, I've always said it, Forrest, that the last leg of prohibition will be the children, you know, showing, because the propaganda is so strong, but there's never really been, the only propaganda against kids, of course, has always been that, oh, it's dangerous for the kids, we have to protect them. The children from cannabis. So they really didn't spend the money on that level of propaganda that when you have a suffering child show up across, you know, where they see this, they're exposed to it and then they see the help that can be done from it.

17:03BubblemanI've really seen even the staunchest prohibitionists melt away that last leg to stand on. So I definitely applaud the work that you're doing. Can you tell us a little bit about the form of epilepsy that your son is suffering with?

17:18ForrestYeah, so he has Lennox-Gastaut syndrome, and Lennox-Gastaut is one of nine what are considered catastrophic rare epilepsies. So a lot of people in the cannabis community, because of Sanjay Gupta and those specials, have heard of Charlotte, right, and Charlotte's Web. That little girl, Charlotte, has Dravet syndrome, and Dravet syndrome and Lennox-Gastaut are two that get the most attention, I think, when it comes to rare epilepsy, because they have...

17:45ForrestJust uncontrolled seizures. Silas at his peak was having somewhere around 2,500 seizures a month. So you have my son. He was a healthy, normal, met all his benchmarks growing up. He wasn't a child who was born with an obvious disability, which is something I try to talk about when I do lectures or public lectures. Thank you so much for joining us.

18:28ForrestWhen it came on, it came on really rapidly. So it was a matter of, you know, when he had his first seizure, it was a matter of weeks, you know, not months when he had a second one. It was a matter of months, not years when he was having them every day. And within a year, he went from this healthy three-year-old boy playing and causing trouble like they should be to having upwards of 1500 seizures a month.

18:52SpeakerAnd, um,

18:54ForrestAnd essentially with Lennox-Gasso and other conditions, when people think of epilepsy, they think of grand mal seizures typically, right? Shaking on the ground, spasming. These children have 10 or more different seizure types. And sometimes Silas would have three or four different seizures simultaneously in clusters of seizures. So it's just a horrific condition. And There was nothing they could do. They put them on these medications. They start with mild ones, quote unquote mild ones, with Triliptol and Keppra, which causes just something you can look up called Keppra Rage.

19:33ForrestIt just causes people to just lose their minds psychotically. But hopefully it'll stop the seizures, which it didn't. And they go through all these medications, Depakote, up to harder ones. And they get into the benzodiazepines and the opioids. And you have- Forced. Yeah.

19:49Etienne FontanSo you- So you say this quite casually as a father, but when you actually watched your child for the first time actually experience it, what did you go through? I mean, you're talking about a very blasé-like, and I understand it, but explain to somebody what that experience entailed, because I know it wasn't easy.

20:12ForrestThank you so much for joining us.

20:23ForrestThe first time Silas went through a seizure, he was getting ready for school. You know, it was preschool, obviously. And we were getting ready in the morning, and he just started walking around in circles. And I was like, hey, Si, come get your breakfast, you know, normal kid stuff. And he didn't respond. You know, he just completely, it's like I wasn't there. So my first reaction was kind of just like, hey.

20:47ForrestYou know, dad's talking. Don't ignore me. You got to get ready for school, you know, normal stuff. And he didn't respond again. And I went and kind of grabbed him by the shoulders and said, hey, are you OK? And he was just gone. He was just blank stare, gone. And then he threw up like all over my feet. So at the time, I didn't know a lot about seizures.

21:07ForrestSo I thought it was really odd. But, you know, kids get the flu. They get other conditions. They can get delirious. And I'm like, hey, maybe, you know, it's just something like that. And Thank you for watching.

21:38ForrestSo I knew something was wrong and you know you're terrified you know it's this helpless situation your kids when something goes wrong with your brain like that and you see someone's spirit go away in their eyes it's a horrific thing to witness and you know we went to doctors initially and of course they say that uh it's no big deal a lot of kids grow out of it you know but his progressed so rapidly that um Thank you for joining us.

22:25ForrestWhen you're having that many seizures, when you go from none and healthy to 1500 a month, it does a lot to the brain. It's just like getting, you know, I associate it with, imagine you have your son or your daughter or your granddaughter or niece or nephew and someone were to just come in the house anytime they wanted and you couldn't do anything about it and just tase them until they were unconscious, until they We'll be right back.

23:08ForrestAble to lay on the couch while we popped rescue medications in his mouth. And that experience of having to watch your child slowly cease to death within the course of a year or so is something that I wouldn't wish on my own enemy. You know, and we had to really come to terms like a lot of parents do in a lot of different conditions from cancer to epilepsy to other rare genetic conditions.

23:37ForrestYou know, having to come to terms and look at your own child and come to terms with their mortality and really have to accept that we're going to watch him slowly die in front of us in this horrific, you know, totally inhumane state. I'm so glad that you're here. I'm so glad that you're here. I'm so glad that you're here. I'm so glad that you're here. I'm so glad that you're here.

24:22Etienne FontanHere's something enough you took action enough to go there.

24:28ForrestWell, you know, when your kids are dying, you'll try anything, you know. I would have tried, yeah, you name it.

24:35Etienne FontanYeah, but you had to have it from somewhere. You had to have read it somewhere or somebody told you.

24:41ForrestWell, I was lucky enough here in Northern California. I started meeting other parents. Obviously, it was a little bit before that, but when the CNN special came out with Sanjay Gupta, it got more attention. I met some of the parents who had taught Jason David, who was doing Jaden's Juice at a harborside at the time, how to make medicine and Basically, you know, so I just, I had known people within the, you know, it's a small community, some of this rare epilepsy.

25:12ForrestAnd so I, you know, it was, I was able to, you know, I wasn't afraid of cannabis, so it was just learning about it. So, you know, basically through hearing it through word of mouth of other parents when it was on television, but we started, so I started driving to Oakland. I'm up in, uh, Nevada, outside of Nevada City. So it's about a three and a half hour drive.

25:35ForrestAnd I started driving back and forth buying whatever they had at the time. And back then it wasn't much. You know, I think they had like one Jaden's Juice, like high CBD bottle there for like $300. It was like 320 bucks. And I would go through that in 10 days with Silas. And then drive back. And we were spending thousands of dollars a month. And he never had a single day without a seizure.

26:00ForrestIt never worked for him. It didn't do anything.

26:05Etienne FontanAnd how much dosage were you giving him initially?

26:07ForrestThey didn't know. I still don't know looking back. You would ask them back then and they couldn't tell you how many milligrams were in the bottle initially, what strain it was from. I think it was maybe like, we just didn't have, there wasn't really parent education out there to talk about what was necessary and how to do milligrams per kilogram and really understand some of those things.

26:30ForrestThanks for watching.

26:50ForrestIt wasn't having success, and we did that until we ran out of money. So that was all through 2014. We got to a point, and this is where with the Collagrius Network and this organization we started, we really worked to educate parents because we got to a point where a lot of parents get to is where you don't understand enough about cannabinoids. You just think that cannabis is one thing, and they try a high CBD product, Medicine and it doesn't work and then they decide well we tried cannabis and it didn't work for us so we're not one of the lucky ones and and I know families who's lost their children after that and you go back and look at what they were given just like you asked and they weren't given a therapeutic dose they weren't given quality medicine and they never really tried anything and luckily I had some other parents who were who had a little bit more knowledge and recommended some things that I could start doing to read and I started Thank you so much for joining us.

28:15ForrestThank you so much for joining us.

28:42ForrestAnd when we started with the Medihaze, and I had tried other one-to-ones and two-to-ones, but it just didn't respond, which is why I'm such an adamant advocate of the entourage effect and learning about terpenes and how they modulate Thank you for watching.

29:22Hemp GuyWhen you say two to one, is that two to one CBD or two to one THC?

29:29ForrestYeah, two to one CBD. Typically put the CBD in the front slot. And you're directly dropping the oil into his mouth.

30:00ForrestSort of, yeah. You know, the thing with a lot of these kids is they're not cooperative. So, you know, we hide it in things. We use this, and I've gotten other parents to use it since then, too. They make those Omega-3. Have you seen them? Like Omega-3 lemon cream and blueberry in the health food section of your stores. And it tastes like custard, you know, but it's like Omega-3 vitamins, which we were also trying to get into them.

30:26ForrestSo we would hide it in there and take it, which is a problem because... As you guys I'm sure know, when you take something through the stomach, meaning you're just, that's different than sublingually when you hold it under your tongue and absorb it. It's a lot harder to get a consistent dosage when you're going through the stomach and the liver and all those things. So it took us a little time to find what worked for him, but when it did, it worked.

30:51ForrestAnd he went four months without a single seizure. So take what I was saying about Watching your child slowly seize to death and coming to terms with that, and then one day it just stops. It just goes away. Gone. Within two weeks he was talking and running around like he had been before. Not only did his cognitive ability not decline, like is the concern with cannabis, but he actually had a higher functioning than he did prior to using it because it was able to help correct some of the other issues Neurological issues that he was having.

31:29ForrestSo it was a life-changing experience.

31:34Dr Mark ScialdoneDoes the seizures stop?

31:38ForrestWe haven't had that experience. We make, through the Collagius Network, we make intranasal sprays, right? So these guys that you can take and put in through the nose that we had the most success with, just like they do with other diazepine and benzo medications like midazolam. There's a nerve up there that you can stimulate. And we've had success through intranasal sprays. Not as much through sublingual because even with sublingual, you're looking at 15 to 20 minutes absorption time.

32:07ForrestAnd in the terms of a seizure, that's an eternity. You know, I've seen videos online of people rubbing oil on feet and doing sublingual. I'm not saying that it doesn't work. I just try to be really methodical and careful about what I say does and doesn't work because things spread pretty wildly online. So I haven't seen that be effective personally. And looking at how it works in the body, I don't see how it could right away, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't.

32:36SpeakerI was going to ask, I mean, how much CBD per day is he taking, like, on a ratio-wise? Is there a percentage that seems to be working to keep it at that level? Because we have a patient up here by name Haley, and she's on the same ratio as a strain that's more higher CBD to TC ratio, and she has to take up to, like, 400 milligrams at a certain time of the day in order to make sure.

32:58SpeakerAnd similar effects, up to two, three months, these are free, but with her, she seems to Uh, Chad, her cat and maybe a period and stuff like that is where we've seen that she has her problems and stuff like that now that she's about 21 years old.

33:10ForrestYeah. Well, Silas, you know that, that, I mean, we have a long story with side and that, that streak didn't last for him. He's, he's not doing as well as he was, but, um, the way I've come to understand it is, is, um, you know, we, I work with a lot of kids. So Silas is CBD dose right now is, uh, Thank you for joining us today.

33:49ForrestYou're going to see one might respond to something completely opposite than the other. And in my working theory on why that is with with my understanding of the endocannabinoid system and what cannabinoids are actually doing at the GABA receptors, the CD receptors and like the trip V receptors is that when we see a seizure, I think it's important to know if you're working with people, the seizure is is the consequence, right?

34:16ForrestThe seizure is Thank you so much for joining us.

34:45ForrestThat's where we struggle when we try to find a universal what do kids or what do these people need because we're looking at it as what do we need to stop the seizure, but really if we have the science and the ability to, we need to look at what is causing the seizure and that's going to help narrow down.

35:00SpeakerCan I ask you a couple questions? One, is the 60 milligrams that you're giving them, is it active or is it acid? When you said it was THC.

35:09ForrestThe THC is active. It is active.

35:11SpeakerHave you tried just the acid and seen if it has a similar effect even though it has no psychoactive effect?

35:17ForrestYes. Yeah. No, he gets THC. So his medicine is more complex than CBD and THC. So it's got measured out levels of CBDA, THCA, THC, CBD, and CBG. And we've just continued to fine-tune that over the years.

35:34SpeakerYou take any natural gap of any chance? Say that again? Yeah, I've been like natural GABA. I used to take GABA with B6 with converted forms of TC to help with like more slow down pain transmission and stuff. And it's something that we've talked about here with Dr. Hornby and with Haley that picking natural GABA with the converted forms of the CBD-TC ratios to help slow down that kind of...

35:59ForrestYeah, I've read about it, but I haven't done it with Silas.

36:03SpeakerIt's something that, you know, consider taking a look at. It's something I talk about quite a bit, how GABA reacts with converted forms of the GC binding that helps slow down. So it's just some research that we've kind of... Thank you so much for joining us.

36:37ForrestPaper junkies, so send them all.

36:41SpeakerIt's something to really consider. It helps with people that I know, so hopefully you can get that same kind of response with your son. I have another question. Hemp has the other oil, hemp seed oil, which is rich in essential fatty acids and proteins. Do you supplement and do you give your child hemp seed oil?

37:04ForrestNo, no.

37:05SpeakerYou know, because it speaks to the, I think the cannabinoids are fantastic when we, you know, when you're speaking to the dash light going off the seizure, but trying to speak to, you know, how do we fix what's happening prior to that? And I mean, this, you know, there was a movie, Lorenzo's Oil, you may recall. And what this was is us realizing that we are, we're all lacking essential fatty acids in our diet.

37:29SpeakerI mean, the whole 20th century diet has been Thank you so much for joining us.

38:01SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

38:20ForrestRight. We used it as a carrier oil for his medicine for a long time. Ended up after a while switching to MCT, but didn't really measure out the doses as far as seeing, you know, if there's a significant dose of the oil that would have an effect.

38:36SpeakerYou can't, with hemp seed oil, you cannot, for instance, with flax oil, you can overindulge because the, the, um, Linoleic and linoleic oils are in the wrong ratio. You can actually get an EFA deficiency using flax oil. But hemp oil, a really good book for you to read is by a Canadian doctor. It's called Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill. And it's fantastic. It has a whole chapter on hemp seed nutrition.

39:02SpeakerAnd it's really quite eye-opening. I wish more people would tune into that other side of hemp because I think that it can be the preventive medicine side of this. I mean, I love cannabinoids. God knows I needed them when I was sick, but I've done everything in my power as an adult to basically take care of myself so I don't ever have to see the inside of another cancer ward unless I'm visiting.

39:26ForrestYeah. Well, I think the same for CBD is true. I mean, I think that everyone should be on some sort of supplement of CBD just for its neuroprotectant abilities, its ability to be preventative, you know. Not wait till something's wrong, but keep that endocannabinoid system balanced long before it happens as a preventative use.

39:48BubblemanDo you want to maybe introduce Wade and tell us how you guys kind of came across each other's paths?

39:54ForrestSure, sure. So I met Mr. Laughter here while doing our advocacy work. I think Wade could probably tell you where he saw me first because I was raising a lot of hell here in the county. But ended up getting to know him and his rich history with working with medicinal strains as someone who identified and was able to put the strain Harlequin out into the world, which I think we all know really well.

40:22ForrestAnd before long, with my fascination and studying of cannabis and obvious motivation to not just help my son but help other kids, we bonded pretty quickly and spend a lot of time now working on those things.

40:38SpeakerMonica?

40:39ForrestThere you go. Oh, there's Wade. Wade, how you doing this morning? Oh, am I live? You're live, my friend.

40:45WadeOh, hi. That was beautiful, Forrest. And I see quite a crew of folk along the bottom row of my screen here. I'm not very adept with computers, but nice to meet you guys.

41:01BubblemanWelcome, Wade, to Hashtag. Thank you. Take your time, and we're happy to have you here.

41:07WadeThank you. I don't know where to start. Yeah, I met Forrest, our local jurisdiction. He and I both live in non-incorporated areas of Nevada County and our local supervisors in response to the passage of MRSA here in California enacted a total ban on outdoor cultivation here in the county. And Forrest presented a very effective presentation to the supervisors about the predicament that he was having. And I happened to be at that meeting because as someone who discovered years ago the potential healing properties of cannabis, his story was very compelling to me.

41:57WadeAnd so I introduced myself and yeah, I feel like

42:08WadeMy work, particularly in the last year or so, has really become, been much more of an advocate for patients' rights to access to clean, affordable medicine.

42:22WadeI really understand and care very deeply about what cannabis is as a healing plant. So, yeah.

42:34BubblemanTell us about your relationship with Harlequin and how that came about.

42:40WadeBack in 2007, I had a collective in San Francisco working indoors. And one of the persons who was in the collective with me had worked on a farm in Switzerland where they were... In Switzerland in those days, you could grow as much cannabis as you wanted on your property. You just couldn't sell it. And so the property owner here in this case, his family had money. And in the traditional thing that happens in Europe, he went on a long trip after he got out of school and collected seeds from various parts of the world.

43:29WadeBecause there was a plant, a land race of cannabis that was acclimated to the mountains of Switzerland, a sativa that never finished flowering. And his family and other farmers in that valley tolerated this plant because their cows would eat it if they had the chance. And the farmers had learned that if they kept some of this plant around, And offered their cows if they were sick, their cows would get healthy.

44:03WadeAnd Swiss farmers like their cows. And meantime, this young man didn't like that this beautiful plant never quite finished flowering so that he'd have a chance to experience it. And so he crossed that original Swiss land race with a sativa from the mountains of Thailand, a sativa from Colombia, And a Nepalese Indica from Mustang area. And those crosses back on that original Swiss plant produced the seeds that became Harlequin.

44:46WadeAnd when I received them, I was looking for some new genetics to work with. I wasn't specifically looking for CBD. But I was really struck by the vitality of that plant and eventually tested it at Harborside and they told me that it was a pretty extraordinary plant. And I'd already worked with a group of patients enough that most of the patients that I worked with expected psychoactivity from their cannabis and they loved the smell of Harlequin.

45:24WadeThey loved the Taste of it, the look of it, the feel in the bag, everything about it was beautiful, except wasn't very psychoactive and kind of a disappointment for most of them. But one fella told me that he thought it was really weird because it didn't get him stoned, but what he noticed was that he had a shoulder that had been surgically repaired from playing football. And he had been through opioids and whatnot trying to reduce the pain so he could use his arm.

46:01WadeAnd he found that when he smoked this cannabis that I'd offered him, it didn't get him stoned, but his shoulder didn't hurt. And he didn't understand what that was about, and he thought it was important. And that's when I found out about CBD. We've seen much higher readings from it. It turned out to be an extraordinary good mother plant. A number of folks have bred it. I personally after we identified it realized that it felt important to Get as many copies of it out into the world as possible so that as many people as possible might have the chance to benefit from it.

46:58WadeWho named it Harlequin? I'm sorry? Who named it Harlequin? Oh, I did. When I was first growing it out, there were two different phenotypes from the seeds that I had. And one of them was more vital. That's the one that eventually was named Harlequin. I was doing a... This whole story is on my website, by the way, and I don't want to take up all of our time with telling you something that you can find.

47:29BubblemanWe have lots of time. Trust me. We have four hours. And we'll drop your website as well so people can go there later and check it out as well.

47:37WadeCheers. All right. Well, yeah. So I was working indoors and...

47:47WadePart of indoor cultivation for any of you that have done any of it is remember that you have to recreate nature. You have to make everything as perfect as possible for the plants to really flourish, to express their genetic potential. And so at that point in my learning process, I had gotten to the point where in talking to the plants, I knew that they had the best light that I could find.

48:18WadeI knew that they had the best water that I could make for them in San Francisco. I had the best soil, the best mix of what I considered nutrients that would provide what they needed without really pushing them. I'm a big fan of

48:36WadeOrganic, if you will. But at some point in conversation with the plants, I realized that they evolved in connection with the earth, that there's actually an electrical frequency that the earth provides to plants that I was depriving these plants of because they were in bags, on tables, in a concrete room, not unlike a prison, if you will. And so I was doing an experiment. I hooked up a length of 10-3 Romex cable to a copper pipe that was carrying water that I knew was good to ground and gave wire to four different plants.

49:26WadeAnd I had a control group of seven plants that were all Harlequin cuttings at this point. It hadn't been named Harlequin yet. And four of them got ground from this, through the wires I hooked them up to. And three of them didn't get ground. And they all had the same light, same water, same soil, same air temperature, all of that. And the four that were grounded were dramatically happier.

49:53WadeIt was a pretty amazing, successful experiment. And... The four that were grounded stood out in this large room of plants because they took on all kinds of colors. They were purple and reds and vibrant shades of green. And it really reminded me, I love live theater. And one of the characters in one of the earliest operas is the Harlequin, is the jokester. He's the prankster, the coyote in the Native American culture.

50:34WadeAnd this plant was clearly a game changer. It was a dramatically happy plant indoors. And so I named it Harlequin. That's where the name came from.

50:45Hemp GuyDid you smoke it before you had it tested at Harborside?

50:51WadeI tried it. I wasn't impressed. Quite honestly, in those days, I enjoy smoking hash, and I was making hash from the things that I was producing. I didn't like working with anybody else's material because I didn't know how they had treated the cannabis, so I always had small quantities.

51:17WadeThe farm in Switzerland, that was what they were doing. They were growing cannabis in order to produce hash. And my hope was that the seeds that came would be a hash producer. And I found that Harlequin's hash was nice. But for me personally, I enjoyed the psychoactivity of the cannabis that I was producing and consuming. And Harlequin was a disappointment for me there. But what I found really spectacular about it, and it helped reinforce the idea of getting it out to as many people as possible, is when I smoked garlic, when I felt like I had just gotten out of a nice long session in a hot tub, all of the joints in my body where I creak a little bit when I move around, it just felt relaxed in my body.

52:13WadeAnd that's really my general experience of CBD today. I regularly consume a texture of CBD because it helps my body feel more comfortable.

52:27Hemp GuyBefore you had it analyzed the very first time, did you know it had CBD in it, or did you feel it had CBD, or was it a complete surprise?

52:37WadeIt was a complete surprise. I wasn't aware enough. I was trying to educate myself at that point about the various kinds of cannabis that were available in the San Francisco marketplace. I was not very educated about CBD. A gentleman named Fred Gardner, who's the publisher of O'Shaughnessy's and an incredibly beautiful man, Help me get started on the process of learning about cannabinoids and terpenes and the various expressions of the genetic potential that we find in the plant.

53:21Etienne FontanBut yours is also one of the first spikes out here that we've found that actually had CBD to the point where we had to go find further research to actually find what this other spike was, if I'm not correct. I was one of the earlier pioneers in testing. I helped, I was talking with Fred, et cetera, and yours was one of those rare anomalies because we were finding, I did 1500 tests through one lab and found the majority of phenotypes really had the very similar profile, but yours had a significant spike that was not THC to the point where we had to research and we were able to find it through Mishulam's TOSS data Unbeknownst to us later that that was the spike because your cannabis was, I remember talking with Fred and it was being such a bizarre thing that we realized that if this was one type of cannabis, there had to be other types of cannabis like it, but it was quite incredible.

54:26WadeYes. Yes. Yes. I think part of what made Harlequin What it is today is that it was a fairly unique plant. I think it was, it sprang from all those land races that that young man went and sought out. The other thing that I have to say that when Harlequin was first tested, the folks at Harborside shared with me that There were a couple of other tests, and I think in conversation with either Fred or Steep Hill, I'm not sure who exactly told me this, but at some point, I believe Steep Hill had something on the order of 14,000 samples that they had tested in California, and something on the order of 10 or a dozen of them had CBD in excess of 4%.

55:29WadeAnd of those dozen, three of them had live plant material of that test result. And I eventually had a chance to meet a number of folks who had one-off seedlings that they had grown out that when they got them tested, they came back with CBD in them. Swami Chaitanya, Comes to mind. Had two different seedlings he named Ganja Ma and Shaktipat. Both of them had CBD in excess of 4%.

56:07WadeBut he didn't know which exact seed group he had taken those plants from. So, and meantime he harvested the plant and didn't have cuttings.

56:20Etienne FontanSo I'm just clarifying because I'm just clarifying this as the history in recent California. I think Sam, when was the first time that you actually tested and had significant CBD spikes that you started following CBD, or did you along the way, Sam? Because I know that it existed before Harlequin, but in the recent history of California, Harlequin is like the cornerstone, will be known through history as that cornerstone, that spike that made us go further past the THC spike to see That CBD was significant.

56:54Hemp GuyOur first CBD varieties were around 2000, maybe a year earlier or a year later, but around 2000. And we developed it for GW Pharmaceuticals and we wanted a variety that could be grown outdoors in the UK. So it needs to be a fairly early variety and somewhat resistant to UK's basically unfriendly conditions for growing cannabis outdoors very late.

57:27Hemp GuyAnd by the way, yeah, it was me a lot who turned Fred on to the idea about CBD because we had developed this work. We actually had our CBD variety, I think a year or two earlier than that because when we started working with GW, we already had it.

57:50SpeakerI think up here in BC, we came across that Haley's Comet strain around 2008, 2009.

57:58SpeakerThat's the one. We do what he said. It's seeing the CBD spikes up there.

58:02Hemp GuyWell, our CBD variety was never as high as the varieties that people are growing nowadays. People are growing over 20% CBD varieties now. Our best was about 10%, but it could be grown outdoors in the UK. It would finish early enough, so that was very important.

58:25WadeI have a question. ACDC is a variety that I think flourishes quite well when its temperatures are in the 70s. Outdoors here in Nevada County, for example, where we can get temperatures in the 90s or even 100, it grows more like a fern. I don't know how well it tolerates the amount of moisture that you'd have to deal with in the UK.

58:53Hemp GuyAnd there's a plant that I've seen as high as 22% yields when it's grown in the right conditions in terms of... Also, too, most of the varieties that until very recently were extremely high also had really more THC than... Uh huh. Uh huh.

59:37Hemp GuyAnd what GW wanted at that time was a variety high in THC, which I gave them, and a variety that was high in CBD. I asked them if they wanted one at a particular combination ratio, and they said no, they wanted, you know, to be able to combine them after the fact to make a constant norm.

1:00:00ForrestNow is that the strain they went on to use for the Epidiolex products?

1:00:05Hemp GuyEpidiolex, as far as I know, yes, aren't they using grace?

1:00:12ForrestI've heard conflicting results, even from some people within GW Pharmaceuticals, so I always kind of ask to see what folks know.

1:00:20Hemp GuyWhat do you mean, conflicting results about what?

1:00:23ForrestWhat strain they're using.

1:00:25Hemp GuyOh, well, for CBD, they're using grace.

1:00:28ForrestIs that, yeah, I've heard.

1:00:30Hemp GuyThat's from us.

1:00:32ForrestAwesome.

1:00:36Hemp GuyWe developed the world's first CBD variety. By CBD variety, I mean high in CBD, like approaching 10% for manicured bugs, and it was little or no THC, I mean really tiny amounts.

1:00:52ForrestIs it the 0.3% line over there as well that they use here?

1:00:56Hemp GuyYeah, but ours is less than that, so that's not a problem.

1:01:02Etienne FontanYeah, that's kind of been across the board, including for hemp stuff, unfortunately. Hey, Sam, are they actually testing now for above 15% THC in the Netherlands? Is that considered a hard drug now?

1:01:19Hemp GuyBut as far as I know, they're not doing it.

1:01:22Etienne FontanActual legislation, okay.

1:01:24Hemp GuyNo, and I haven't heard of anybody being busted for selling 16% marijuana or hashish.

1:01:33Etienne FontanBecause there's still no labs where actually no... No, the government...

1:01:39Hemp GuyThere's government labs and the Trimbos Institute. There's a few labs that could be used. There's none that are allowed to test publicly-scented cannabis. No, that's not allowed.

1:01:57Etienne FontanStill, so there's really no way to actually get your cannabis tested? If so, you're just going to have one batch tested, but that'll last forever as a piece of paper.

1:02:12Hemp GuyAs far as I'm aware of, there's no legal way to get your cannabis tested as a simple grower, user, producer, because the labs have to be licensed to be able to legally do this. That doesn't mean somebody isn't doing it. Maybe they're doing it with.

1:02:38Etienne FontanHere in Spain, they're only going to be able to or they're trying to actually test for it'll only be for THC. They have no pesticide testing.

1:02:47Hemp GuyAnd I was like, wow. Some of the labs do. They have both pesticide, residuals, and they also test for cannabinoids and 18 different terpenes.

1:03:01Etienne FontanHow many different pesticides are they testing for? Do you know?

1:03:05Hemp GuyNo, I don't know. I don't know what their protocol is or what they're looking for.

1:03:11Etienne FontanWe just got new testing equipment in Berkeley at CW that we can now test. 58 different types of pesticides.

1:03:20Hemp GuyYeah, but pesticide I use is called Secret 59.

1:03:34Hemp GuyBut don't tell anybody. Except a thousand.

1:03:39BubblemanI was going to say, don't you mean Secret 60? Except 800 people you just told.

1:03:46WadeWell, I think that one of the things I would love to talk about is a real need is education in the cannabis community about ways to cultivate cannabis that don't require the use of pesticides or fungicides. We really have to help people who are, I think of many of the folks who work with cannabis today as cultivators, if you will, who follow a recipe. And really, there's nothing wrong with it because some remarkable plant materials being produced.

1:04:19WadeBut one of the things that's happening here in California as more and more people are having to get their cannabis tested in order to sell it at a dispensary or at a delivery service, we're starting to get positive test results for pesticides, even systemic pesticides, my God. But, and as, and molds, and as I imagine most of you know, we've already had patients who are using medical cannabis products whose health has been so compromised that it's resulted in serious medical issues and even deaths.

1:05:01WadeAnd I say plural deaths. And one of the things that's coming in the cannabis marketplace, at least in California, and I think it's already happening in Colorado and Washington, is that when a batch of cannabis tests positive for pesticides and whatnot, or molds, it's supposed to be destroyed.

1:05:25WadeI heard some folks say that, oh, well, you can take cannabis that has mold in it and you can process it and then it's suitable for use. And I don't know. And part of what I work with in working with patients like Silas, whose first son, just to remind everybody, is that the end user If there's anything in the plant material that you're providing to that patient that could compromise their health, you have the potential to do harm.

1:05:59WadeAnd that's not what cannabis is about. Cannabis really is a healing plant and really I think that humans evolved with it, and we just have to, and it evolved in nature. And if we can provide the things that nature provides for the plants, it doesn't need pesticides and fungicides to defend itself. That's what terpenes do. That's why they're in the plant, to draw our attention and to defend them.

1:06:27WadeGo ahead. Can I ask you a question? Yes.

1:06:31SpeakerYeah. Here, I'm taking the year out. We've gotten... A very large place to grow with many hundreds of feet long greenhouses and all the organic. I have given to me now over 200 cultivars and an additional 250 seeds of different yet cultivars to do this research with. And one of the things I'm very interested in learning about The cannabis plant and the oil is, I feel that the terpenes are potentiators of the oils come from them.

1:07:09SpeakerAnd what I'm determined to find out this year is which, first off, I'm going to harvest every terpene I can possibly harvest. I've got a full, complete lab set up at this place. And I've got all the right material to discover this information. I'm going to harvest these terpenes before, during, and after. I'm also going to analyze the soil before, during, and after so that we get some complete answers about some of this.

1:07:33SpeakerI think that in the future, cannabis oil will be metered out to people with the terpene that potentiates that oil. And so we're starting... This year, we're firing up a relational database about this. And we're starting to separate terpenes in a different way than they're being separated now and under different circumstances. And we're having a lot of very, very good success with it. And I think that the whole cannabis world needs a proper education about exactly what is going on rather than somebody saying, Oh, I know so-and-so makes rock star dirt.

1:08:14SpeakerNever mind about that. Everybody that's doing it should be able to make. The plants respond to love. Yes. And you provide loving care for them. You provide them with the proper soil. Yes. And the proper food and the water and the proper love. They give you back a reward. Thank you for joining us.

1:08:49SpeakerThis 200 cultivar grow this year is, we're also, I want to bring back two things. One, I want to bring back bringing love in the greenhouse and love to the plants in such a way so that they will respond to it. Long ago in the 80s when my wife and I grew in Southern California area, she was pregnant and I used to sit in the garden with her every morning for two hours with my sitar.

1:09:12SpeakerAnd those plants gave us the kinds of plants that you could get. Yes. They grew big, they grew strong, they produced a number of, we harvested them three times, some of them. And it's because of all of this really sweet vibratory information that was provided them, as well as the right food, as well as the water and the sunlight. And I think that it's time that we started looking Backward, how to cause the plants to give us what we want starts with how much love we put into the equation.

1:09:49Etienne FontanI look, I appreciate and I love love. The reality is, is bugs don't give a shit about bugs. White pottery mill doesn't give a shit about your love. All those realities that transpire and those botrytis and all those other realities that aren't The realities that are having to do with cannabis. I tell people growing weeds easy, growing medical grade cannabis is hard. Growing medical grade cannabis consistently is a mixture of art, love, and a lot of dedication.

1:10:23Etienne FontanSo, I mean, I, I, I, look, there's no doubt about it. We need to start talking about the realities for people, but it starts, it starts in the fall. It starts with actual soil prep. It starts getting things ready back then. And here we are already in March and people should already have had their plants and veg and should actually be in the ground. And that's the reality of now the arc of the sun that we have going here.

1:10:48Etienne FontanSo the problem is that inherently from Vancouver all the way down to San Diego outside, we have natural predators. Down in Southern California, I had to deal with a type of moth. Which caused a caterpillar that grows at the bottom and love didn't stop it from going through the entire stock and popping out at the top. Now we have to think about biological controls because I test everything that comes through my dispensary and the whole reason we started testing And Debbie and I got into the question of why should we even start doing testing back in 2007 was for that same reason, is that, as you stated, there was a fear that somebody was going to ingest something that was going to cause harm and that they were going to die from it.

1:11:33Etienne FontanI ended up with an upper respiratory infection from a type of bud that I thought was excellent, but inadvertently there was something invisible there and it made me sick and that made me go, wait a second, we need to find out what's going on. And then what we realized, we realized that we had to reinvent the wheel. And fortunately, we did reinvent the wheel. But out of that, we were able to also find CBD.

1:11:55Etienne FontanBut we're also finding other needs and other relative needs. However, we're not going to be able to grow and supply the entire California medical market with outdoor cannabis. You're not even going to be able to do that with the retail cannabis as a whole initially. It's not the reality.

1:12:15SpeakerI'd like to bring something to light here that probably nobody has gotten a hold of yet or missed. Science has marched forward and decided a way to extract some material from plant matter that it can then spray back on other plants and vegetables that's molecularly thin, but it is a camouflage and the bug Thank you for watching.

1:12:51SpeakerAnd this company hasn't let this stuff out yet, but they developed it. I took a look yesterday on their site, and it is some truly amazing material. And I think that it's going to solve a lot of the bug problems because, like I said, most of the bugs and stuff that get on the plant crawl up it. Well, you know, I also think that we have to look at the other ways that, you know, we have organically met the problems of strawberry, grape farming, a whole lot of things.

1:13:19SpeakerThe grape farmers have used, you know, sodium bicarbonate, you know, or what is it? Yeah, it is, bisodium bicarbonate or something like that, you know, to check potassium bicarbonate. Yeah, and it just raises the pH of the water and creates an uninhabitable space for the powdery mildew. And You know, now with the technology advancements we're seeing with water machines, we can actually replicate high alkaline water which will help rinse away mold and mildews and we can use acidic water that is not chemically reactive.

1:13:55SpeakerWe can use titanium plates and electrolysis to create this water that stays in this high alkaline or acidic state temporarily. And we can use that as a natural alternative to a lot of the problems that we're dealing with in organic farming. And I think you're going to see that. You're also going to see people start to learn how to feed plants based on what the cultivar needs and not what their opinion on what all general cannabis needs.

1:14:22SpeakerBecause when you look at what strawberry farmers did in the Netherlands, they realized that PM could be controlled by, I think it was amino acids. And we're going to learn how to introduce the correct nutrients in the correct environmental conditions to actually help us a great deal when we're trying to deal with things in a preventive fashion.

1:14:43Hemp GuyIn the short term, what we're doing is we're trying to cure the problem with susceptible varieties. In the long term, we will absolutely breed resistant varieties.

1:14:56WadeThat's already happening. I wanted to share that when I moved from San Francisco to Nevada County, when I first got here, local jurisdiction allowed a limited outdoor cultivation situation. And so I had a nice garden and a chance to really explore how different cultivars responded to the conditions that I had in my garden. And I put some effort into having good soil, put serious effort into looking at properties before we bought property to find a place that had been a farm in the past and had good dirt.

1:15:35WadeAnd then went about biodynamic and organic approach to building soil and learning about how different cultivars responded to the environment that I have here. And what I've discovered is that a lot of the CBD cultivars do really well when there's bugs in my garden. And I've learned to actually encourage by planting all kinds of different plants in with cannabis. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:16:27WadeCan I just say something?

1:16:30SpeakerYou know, I've been growing since 1984. And when we were in Amsterdam, I worked at a place that was all organic. It was in the early 90s. And, you know, we advocated at the time beneficial insects. But, you know, I came to the conclusion that I don't care if it's a beneficial insect or a bad insect. I don't want insect shit. And defecation that attracts other problems.

1:16:54SpeakerI don't want their eggs. I don't want any of that stuff on what we're calling medicine. So we really have to learn how to cultivate in a sterile environment. This isn't the 80s anymore where people are just happy to get a bag of weed and don't know what it was sprayed with and have to just move on with their life once they score their... Zip. But this is really a situation now where people are sensitive to chemicals, where, you know, growth hormones are coming through into the extracts that they're making with these plants.

1:17:26SpeakerSo now there has to be a real focus on making a clean product. And it doesn't matter if it's a beneficial poop or an unbeneficial bugs poop. I don't want it on our plants. I mean, maybe I'm crazy, but, you know, I'm not coming to...

1:17:44Hemp GuyI think you're being a little bit fanatical, Todd, because, man, I've seen wonderful cannabis grown in third world countries, like tie sticks and stuff. It was absolutely clean, safe, and nice to use, and I'm positive we could do that outdoors in California.

1:18:03WadeI think the trick will be you'll find that different cultivars will flourish in an indoor sterile environment than ones that will flourish in an outdoor scenario. I mean, you can already see that if you just look. I mean, I know the California market a little bit. There are definitely varieties of cannabis that flourish in a good, in a well-done indoor environment. In the environment that is San Francisco, where you have instead of hot days, you actually have cool days because of the fog.

1:18:44WadeAnd it's easy to keep your rooms in a temperature, humidity, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:19:14WadeThe idea of creating a space where the plants have the opportunity, given the conditions you can give them, to fully express who they are. And when they are in the right situation, bugs are not a problem for them. Bugs are not attracted to them. And what I found in my garden... Yeah. Yeah. And I think as we learn more about the different varieties, it'll be easier to identify ones that'll work like that.

1:19:43SpeakerI just want to mention, Todd, poop makes the world go round.

1:19:48BubblemanI just want to mention, in Todd's defense, because we're both macro photographers and I was kind of going through my photos, when you see it under the macro lens and there's this black shit everywhere, it really, I mean, you kind of got to see it to feel it, but I totally know where he's coming from. I agree. Because it's pretty substantial. Depending, but at the same time, you know, if you have a healthy soil and you have this living microbials that literally go into the soil and surround the entire plant, there can be bugs on the soil that aren't going to go up and shit on the plant.

1:20:21BubblemanSo, I'm sure we'll find a nice... Well, there's a mix.

1:20:24SpeakerYou really don't want bugs in the soil because bugs lay little worms that go in and eat the roots.

1:20:29BubblemanOutdoors, bugs exist in nature everywhere. But, you know, like, let's take tomato from... Sterilize a field or whatever.

1:20:36SpeakerSure, but let's take tomato farming for an example. You know, they actually graft the top of a tomato plant that's a good, fast-producing, very, you know, tasty tomato on top of a root stock that they have learned is able to, you know, benefit that plant better than if they were to just grow it with the root stock nature gave it. And we're not doing, we're not there, we are nowhere near understanding The cultivars that we're using in cannabis quite yet or in a legal environment where we can do those type of experimentations on a large scale with a lot of numbers and not fear the repercussions of that.

1:21:14SpeakerSo we're going to go. I have successfully grafted a plant to another plant though. So that still works with marijuana. And this year we'll do a bunch more of it. We'll document it. We'll document the root dividing and the plant dividing thing too. All the stuff that's on the pictures on my site, I don't have it from point A to point B because at the time I wasn't planning or didn't think it would ever get out or be shown to anybody else.

1:21:43SpeakerBut this year I'm going to find out everything there is to find out and I'm going to share it with everybody.

1:21:52BubblemanAll right, well, hey, why don't we get back to Forrest? He made it back into the room. He was going to tell us a little bit about, I don't want to mispronounce, what is it, Caladrius Network?

1:22:01ForrestYeah, good, Caladrius. All right, all right, all right.

1:22:05BubblemanSo tell us a little bit. In fact, actually before you start, I want to say excellent conversation on growing, guys. Inspired me to potentially get, I guess Wade ended up bumping out of the room there. Hopefully we can get Wade back though, not just today, but another day and really do a full panel on growing and spend like four hours talking about growing. There's Wade back now as well.

1:22:29BubblemanThank you, Monica, for getting Wade back on and bringing him back to the room for us. And yeah, so we're going to get back to Forrest and we're going to talk a little bit about Caladrius Network and talk a little bit more about Silas and sort of bringing back a lot of what Wade was just talking about. But you might have missed what I was saying, Wade, which was I was really enjoying the conversation about growing that everyone was having and I would really like to dedicate an entire Hash Church to that specific topic here in the near future if you want to come back for that.

1:22:58BubblemanAnd yeah, let's hand it over to Forrest.

1:23:02ForrestYeah, well, hey, thanks for having me back on here. We're up here in the hills, so Wade and I might drop out from time to time as we get our old-fashioned lines in order so that we can get with you guys in the big cities. But, you know, so Caladrius, you know, it doesn't roll off the tongue really at first, but if you look it up, the Caladrius bird was a A Roman mythological bird that would fly into the rooms of the sick and ill and was said to be able to absorb the sickness of the person who was suffering and fly off dispersing the sickness and healing both the patient and the bird itself.

1:23:47ForrestSo that's the background of the Caladrius bird. And if you look at it's caladriusnetwork.org. Thank you for joining us.

1:24:13ForrestThank you so much for joining us.

1:24:41ForrestThank you for joining us.

1:25:10ForrestThank you so much for joining us.

1:25:34ForrestCannabis and cannabinoids so that we don't see the mistakes that we talked about earlier in the show with people trying one thing and giving up before they really knew what they were doing. To educate them to the point where they're not being taken advantage of because I'm sure as you guys all know there's good folks out there and there's other folks who will just give garbage and not really worry about if it's right for the person or not.

1:25:58ForrestThank you.

1:26:08ForrestBeing able to provide medicine to those who are catastrophically ill is the definition that we kind of have set forth. Conditions that I feel are a very small percentage of the medical cannabis marketplace, but are a small enough percentage where one, their costs are going to be way above what others would use. And two, I think isn't really something that when you start to look at the level of suffering is something that I think is necessary to be a Thank you so much for joining us.

1:26:52ForrestThanks for watching.

1:27:07ForrestEpidermolysis bullosa and intractable epilepsies and EB or epidermolysis bullosa is a condition where the proteins don't form in your skin and feel free to Google it if you want fair warning. It's horrific. But it's a condition where your skin, you know, your skin comes in layers, right? And these children, their body doesn't, Thank you for watching.

1:27:51ForrestWe'll be right back.

1:28:09ForrestCritically ill, dying children. And I wanted to do two things. How do we protect them from this up and down wave of regulation as we try to figure out what cannabis regulation is going to look like so that they're not victims of those regulations that are being put in place? And how do we get them the medicine they need and help change the face of what cannabis has the potential to do at the same time?

1:28:34ForrestSo the Collegiate Network's mission is essentially to do that, to educate families. We partner with businesses. So there's a lot of businesses out there like Medicine Box and Verdon Valley Farms are up here in our area. And they have a mission of wanting to do good along with their business model and wanting to do charitable acts. And we essentially partner with these clean, green, or organic farms They put in an extra row, essentially, to donate every year, and we make and provide medicine to those families at no cost.

1:29:09ForrestWe try to use that as a foundation to try to Instill charity into what the cannabis industry is all about. You know, I know a lot of people are able to trap every bit of shake or they're able to sell it for whatever they have for extracts and things like that. There's a lot of farmers up here who just don't want to worry about that and it ends up on a burn pile at the end of the year.

1:29:33ForrestSo we do education to help say, you know, no waste, no Thank you for joining us.

1:30:01ForrestThank you for joining us.

1:30:20ForrestThank you for joining us.

1:30:45ForrestProp 64 alone, you know, the taxes required make a charitable donation-based organization very difficult to sustain. So, you know, the Colladrius Network is really there to take these people with horrific conditions that ruin families, that ruin families financially and emotionally, and just be there for them at no cost. You know, think of the Shriners Hospital of kids who happen to need cannabis. You know, it's a children's organization, not a cannabis organization.

1:31:17ForrestWe just want to show people what the cannabis industry can really do as far as uplifting our community. And I think it's a huge opportunity for everybody.

1:31:27BubblemanI agree, man. I'm totally inspired by everything you just said about that and definitely want to become a part of it and become involved and supported in whatever way that I can. And I think it's great. I mean, geez, that's the real deal right there. I mean, that's the energy that, for me, I've always recognized. Not always, but that I learned to recognize in cannabis and to take it to that level, that pure, unadulterated, just loving, like, let's help increase the quality of life for these children.

1:32:00ForrestI mean, that's great. Yeah, you know, I think, I believe, full... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:32:32ForrestThank you so much for joining us.

1:32:47ForrestThank you for joining us.

1:33:14ForrestWhatever we end up donating or what we see as our bottom line tenfold.

1:33:19Hemp GuyAnd besides THC and CBD, we can move on to the other cannabinoids. I mean, CBN, which is degraded THC, but CBC, CBG, TCV, and the other propyl homologs. I mean, there's a big future for all of these compounds.

1:33:42ForrestYeah, well, I mean, a lot of the work I'm really interested in right now as far as cracking that code of why some people respond and some don't is, you know, Dr. Ethan Russo's work on the entourage effect and how he's finding that, you know, things that we thought to be terpenes are also cannabinoids like beta-mercine as they interact both and how those interact with the receptors, how they modulate the impact of those cannabinoids.

1:34:05ForrestAll that is... It's a big puzzle right now. But within that puzzle, I'm confident is a solution for a lot of people out there who have endocannabinoid deficiency disorders or other disorders that are affected by that system. And really, it's about differentiating where is the market and where is the responsibility of just our community and what type of role model do we want to be, you know?

1:34:31ForrestWhen I've loved cannabis my whole life, and I found, I don't know if you guys have seen the same, but I found myself in groups of people who were always really informed about the disgusting nature of companies like Monsanto and Bayer. And I'd always be in these groups of people saying, isn't it disgusting what these pharmaceutical companies are doing? They're profiting off people's death. They're profiting off their life.

1:34:53ForrestAnd they actually hold their hand out and say, your money or your life. If you can't pay... Thank you for watching.

1:35:16ForrestI don't know if everybody's prepared to answer that. When I'm getting calls from parents who are spending just like we were, I didn't say that in my story, but we lost our home. Harborside got every dime we had as we lost our home on medicines that didn't work for Silas. Thank you for joining us.

1:35:55ForrestWe can easily take care of the most desperate and critical in our community. And at the same time, change hearts and minds of the people who see what we're doing, you know? And that's, that's the kind of, that's the kind of connections that I want to see made. It just takes a little forethought, takes a little planning in advance. You know, we talk about like two for tots programs, right?

1:36:16ForrestWhere you've already spent the money on the infrastructure. You've already spent the money on your program. We put in another couple, two for kids every year. It's just part of something we do.

1:36:23SpeakerSeriously, what we need to see happen is cannabis become dirt cheap. I mean, it has to be on par with what other vegetables and flowers. If you can walk into a Whole Foods and buy a bushel of beautiful flowers, cannabis should be no different. If they can grow sunflowers and other flowers and put them on display with no bugs or powdery mildew as you walk into a supermarket, there's no reason we couldn't go in and buy really fresh cannabis that was certified organic, And cut clean right there.

1:36:55SpeakerAnd this whole place could change immensely. And it really isn't about, you know, the taxes from Prop 64 or anything. I think their fantasies are going to get shattered because really what it should be is about everybody having access to cannabis because we're seeing from the youngest people in our society to the oldest people in society getting benefits from using cannabis. And that's what we all should be fighting for.

1:37:20ForrestYeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think that it's just economics, right? Remember from school, I mean, where cannabis is priced, right now we have medicine being priced at a prohibition-based, you know, kind of economic system, you know. So we're putting these CBD oils on the same level as what we were getting on the street for, you know, What essentially is an inflated price because of prohibition?

1:37:43SpeakerIt is an inflated price. The saddest part about the last 10 years of the cannabis, medical cannabis industry I've seen is that a lot of new entrepreneurs have come in with the desires to hold on to prohibition-era profiteering. Right. With the legality of being able to make bank and not worry about getting arrested, but they still want to tax the fuck out of people for stuff that shouldn't cost a hundred times the cost of production.

1:38:08SpeakerAnd it actually pisses me off because when I hear about people like you, you should have affordable access. You shouldn't have to lose your house or face going to jail if you grow it yourself to help your child. And It's really hard to just contain myself because the anger is just so...

1:38:27Hemp GuyYou know what the real price is, Todd. It's about similar to what the price of a bouquet of beautiful flowers are. I mean, especially if they're organically grown natural flowers. That's about the price of cannabis. I mean, it shouldn't cost more than $5 for a big, giant handful of it. You know, not even dried yet. Still fresh.

1:38:53SpeakerIt's, you know, I can't honestly, I mean, they pushed off tier five licenses five years with Prop 64 and I think it was the biggest mistake they made because think of how many people are going to deprive the ability to get cannabinoids into their body because people are getting a little extension on their profiteering. That's literally what it is, everybody. You're not going to see cannabis in cans for 89 cents a zip until people have already made cash.

1:39:19SpeakerAnd that, to me, sickens me.

1:39:21BubblemanWell, I'd also say this. I don't think you're ever going to see it when you have people building multi-million dollar indoor facilities as opposed to, say, when we start planting fields like this. Acres.

1:39:39SpeakerRight. It's both going to happen. I think we're really going to see massive production when the facilities that are pre-existing switch jobs. That's all I'm saying.

1:39:48BubblemanThat's all I'm saying. We need to plant some fields, not plant multi-million dollar indoor grow facilities and expect to get cannabis down.

1:39:56Hemp GuyIf you think about it, Marcus, I mean, farmers for thousands of years, what they do is they plant their crops. If the weather's good, they get a good crop. If the weather sucks, maybe their crop is gone. That's the nature of farming. For sure. It will be forever, but Greenhouses are the answer, no? Well, greenhouses can make a big difference, you're right. It is the key to success.

1:40:25Hemp GuyBut wine is not grown in greenhouses in California. And I'll bet you anything there will be places that are conducted to producing the highest quality cannabis outdoors also.

1:40:42SpeakerDon't you think that those outdoor crops are going to be kind of like in the perfect, like nature creates perfect little micro environments where certain plants thrive. I think that when we put cannabis in the right places, That are not susceptible to PM and not susceptible to bugs and stuff. You'll see beautiful outdoor cannabis. Guaranteed, Todd.

1:41:03BubblemanAnd it won't be related to the prohibition. Like a perfect example is Jamaica. Oh, good scents from the West. Go to Westmoreland. Westmoreland has the best herb. They do have great herb, don't get me wrong, but there's great herb all over the island. And what seems to be more of a reality is that Negril, the West End, was as far away on the island as you could get from Kingston, where the majority of the police were back in the 60s.

1:41:29BubblemanIf you want to grow herbs. So it was more like a prohibition sort of like push than, you know, say an actual environment, micro environment. Like we know lavender grows. Some of the best in the world grows in one particular region in France. And it's like the German stuff is second only to the French lavender because the way it allows for that genetic expression, the terpene profile that is expressed in those particular conditions seems to outdo all of the other cultivars that are grown elsewhere.

1:42:01BubblemanSo cannabis is going to be similar, absolutely.

1:42:04ForrestWe're working with some folks out of UCLA who are doing... They're evolutionary geneticists and are collecting samples to help track the genetic code of these individual cultivars to help start to try to get samples in from where take a, you know, take whatever, take a gorilla glue grown in all these different environments and then seeing how it expressed itself to help narrow down where is that place?

1:42:28ForrestWhere is that? What is that fine sweet spot that you can, that sweet spot to be able to find where the plant can really reach its potential in the right conditions for each one.

1:42:37SpeakerYou know, now though with science, we don't know how so much have to learn where the plant originated. We can actually measure the way that it uptakes and the way that it discharges nutrients. And we can actually just look at the plant and see what we're working with. Because in a way, all we're working with is complex hybrids. Because even the land races... That we're calling land races are not land races per se.

1:43:02SpeakerThey were cultivated by our ancestors for thousands of years leading up to us getting to where we are today. And one of the points I always made was I don't think we have made that big a progress in breeding considering there was thousands of years people breeding in places like India, the cannabis we call Indica now. And we've had prohibition for 100 years. They had cannabis cultivation for thousands.

1:43:29WadeRight. Yes.

1:43:31Hemp GuyYes. Even more obvious is when you think about it, until I think it was 76 or 77, no one in America really knew what Simpsonia was. They all grew seeded marijuana, or that's what they bought when they had it imported. I mean, very few people saw Simpsonia marijuana before the mid-70s.

1:43:55SpeakerI can attest to that because I brought back 37 San Yo refrigerators full of Vietnamese pot and Cambodian pot from Vietnam because there was no customs inspection on GI's stuff back. And when I showed up with it in the Northern California area with all this Thai steak and Thai and Buddhist steak with no seeds in it, everybody was like, where did you get this? I was like, hey, can I throw something out there, guys?

1:44:23SpeakerI just... Trip Dunn, while we were talking, ABC 10 is reporting that marijuana growers in California are now eligible for reduced agricultural electricity rates from PG&E, which just happened. Really?

1:44:38ForrestYeah, it happened a few days ago.

1:44:40SpeakerYeah, they're saying residential customers are exempt, of course, but the fact that they're looking at us now because of Prop 64 passing, One of those unintended consequences, you know, but I think it's fantastic that we're starting to be seen as equals when it comes, you know, if we're producing strawberries or producing cannabis, we should have equality.

1:45:03ForrestYeah, they put it up there with the same, they didn't give it a special classification, but they allowed it to be within their ag rates. So I think it's anyone using 70% for electricity or pump, you know, towards what they're growing will be able to get those reduced rates.

1:45:19SpeakerYes, it says that 70% of the annual energy has to be used for cultivation purposes. So there's the challenge, everybody.

1:45:26WadeUse electricity.

1:45:30SpeakerUse LEDs and low energy devices and then all of it goes to the weeds.

1:45:35ForrestWhat you do is you put your house on a solar panel, right? You cut that down and then whatever you put, just whatever you're getting from PG&E, you make sure that, or you're using for your cultivation, you put it on your PG&E, you'll hit 70%.

1:45:47SpeakerAnd for the record, I mean, I grew up an indoor grower and because of growing up in an urban environment and having to learn how to grow in my closet, but people don't really take into consideration the cost of operation and like one 1,000 watt light, On for 12 hours a day for a 70 day flower period, even at only 20 cents a kilowatt hour will cost you 168 bucks.

1:46:12SpeakerAnd when people are sitting there thinking about popping all these lights, they're sometimes not paying attention to how high their energy bill is going to go and how it's going to boost every pound, every ounce they make is going to have a huge impact with how much the energy that they Use to produce it cost them. So this is why I bring this up because we really have to bring the price down.

1:46:35SpeakerYou know what I mean? If you only get one or two pounds under that thousand watt light, you are already into it for 170 bucks, not including water, nutrients, equipment, rent, your time, labor, love, anything. Well, that was... Outside is dirt.

1:46:49ForrestThat was one of the big talking points when we were doing education, you know, as far as our local government is, you know, they have this, you know, they were going to allow six plants indoors and they knew so little about cannabis and how it works. It was just like, well, if you can grow six plants indoors, you're good to go, right? It's easy. They just grow indoors and you can get it for free, essentially, you know, without knowing any of that, you know, expecting people dealing with sick or sick loved ones, be able to, one, learn how to cultivate indoors, which doesn't just happen overnight, right?

1:47:18ForrestIt's not easy. And then the fact that it would be free, I mean, the cost can be astronomical for some of those setups with the lights.

1:47:26SpeakerIt is expensive, but for me, when I was only 13, I found the fluorescent lights in my grandma's basement. I found the timer in the front window. She had pots, soil, watering can. The ropes and pulleys were from when we had laundry lines. And all I had to do was go get fertilizer and I was rocking. So I would encourage everybody to go shake down their house and Thank you for watching.

1:48:07SpeakerIt was 1984 and I'll tell you that none of my friends, the first time I passed a joint of the stuff I grew around my friends, everyone started coughing and when it hit one of my friends, he puffed it, passed it, and he goes, wow, that's what it's supposed to feel like. It was just such a great moment. Honestly, it felt like, yes.

1:48:27ForrestIt's like so long ago that you think it actually grew in bricks with seeds in it, huh?

1:48:31SpeakerWell, no, my friend whipped out brown pot, and I was like, why is it brown? Because I had only seen my mom's weed, which was always green, and then I grew it, and it was green. And when he showed me brown weed, I was like, what the fuck is that? And he was like, pot comes brown. I was like, don't grow brown. And I whipped out a bag of fresh buds and asked to join around.

1:48:51SpeakerAnd I made a lot of older friends that day, it turns out.

1:48:55ForrestAwesome.

1:48:59BubblemanAh, cannabis grow stories.

1:49:01SpeakerOutside in the dirt with living dirt and using the sun. You produce an enormous, I produced 27 foot tall plants in the past using sun. Didn't cost me a damn nickel for electricity and water and plants. Oakleaf mulch and earthworm shit full of, not earthworm shit, rabbit shit full of earthworm stuff, blood meal, bone meal. Never put a chemical on it. All of them tasted enormous. We always threw two or three fish in the bottom of the hole, dug the hole six foot deep to start with, stripped the sides off the plant, covered it in root turn, buried the whole thing in the ground until it changed into one giant root.

1:49:46SpeakerAnd then scratched food in until the day or until the week before we were going to harvest. If I had done that, my grandma would have caught me way sooner. Well, that's true because carrying that rabbit shit upstairs would have been busting you right away. Digging a hole in the floor would have really pissed her off, honestly. And the hole in the roof.

1:50:07BubblemanShe comes down, you're just throwing dead fish in the hole. What's up, Grandma?

1:50:12SpeakerHe's downstairs, so she'll see all the shit he's throwing in the hole. He just dug a hole through the ceiling. But anyway. I couldn't believe I grew six foot tall plants under fluorescent light. She was only like four foot eleven, and when she found them, she was just stunned that these things, she just Just couldn't understand it. It was really great.

1:50:31BubblemanI call it my 65-day forest. That's what one of the seed breeders from Manitoba, who was one of our first hemp farmers, his family had grown seed for 50 years. He had grown seed for 50 years, his family for like 100, and he said hemp was his 65-day forest. He'd never seen a plant like it get that tall in 60 days.

1:50:55SpeakerAll those kinds of stories. Hey, everybody. ATN is trying to slip out without saying goodbye.

1:51:01BubblemanSay goodbye, ATN.

1:51:03SpeakerGoodbye, ATN. That story just proves how tough the marijuana plant is. You know, I lived up in a little place in Northern California in the 80s called Tuttle Town. It was just a sign on both sides. It wasn't a real town there. But, um, Once upon a time, as we were getting ready to grow, the sheriff came driving up the road where we lived, and we threw a tarp over a pot plant.

1:51:29SpeakerAnd we never took it off for the whole summer. And at the end of the summer, my wife pulled this blue tarp off of this pot plant. And this thing gave us a pound and a quarter of excellent buds. And it was underneath that blue tarp. I mean, pot is a tough plant. And it'll grow. It's a weed. It'll grow anywhere. But if you... We'll see you next time.

1:52:12ForrestThank you for watching.

1:52:29ForrestThank you so much for joining us.

1:52:44ForrestThank you for watching.

1:53:12SpeakerYou were sounding a little like Dylan. Everybody must get stoned there for a minute. I really liked it though. But you know what? I think that once, you know, we're coming out of the closets like the gay movement did and people could come out and be gay to their parents. You know, we're having a very similar experience as pot people. We're coming out to our parents and we're coming out to our coworkers and now suddenly we're proud of the fact that we don't use alcohol and we smoke pot.

1:53:38SpeakerAnd it's changing. It is culturally shifting. And it's going to continue to shift as we get more confidence that the man in blue ain't going to show up and beat us and steal our hash and lock us up and throw us through the court system.

1:53:53ForrestWell, I don't even... Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead for us. I was going to say, I don't even think we know what our relationship with cannabis is. I mean, you know, I mean, we might all have a personal idea, but, you know, I really see the cannabis industry as, you know, it's like a girl who was kidnapped when she was 10 and locked in the basement for the last 30 years.

1:54:14ForrestYes. And she had to form under this horrible sort of...

1:54:22ForrestWe'll be right back.

1:54:38ForrestAnd that's not true. All we're looking at it right now is through this lens of what it was under prohibition. But I think that we don't even know what our relationship with cannabis would be like if it hadn't been mistreated for the last 70 years. We don't know how it would be integrated into our lives in different ways. We Thank you so much for joining us.

1:55:22ForrestAll things in good time. That's what I say about it. All things in good time. And by the way, do you know, ATN, are you related to him? Who are you talking to? To me?

1:55:53SpeakerDo I know who? ATN from Berkeley Patients Group? No, John. ATN is not related to anybody on this panel. No, I'm not. Okay. I mean, he talks and sounds a lot like ATN, and he definitely makes his point. But you know what? All things in good time. And yes, cannabis had a bad time and now it's coming into its good time. And there's a lot of people who are doing research that you don't know about or don't see or they're not out in the open with it.

1:56:27SpeakerAnd this is because people have been slapping down for doing that sort of thing for a long time, as you said. But that hasn't stopped us from doing it. That has not slowed down the march. The march isn't going to slow down. It is going to be successful. Alcohol became successful and it's fucking poison. And this is medicine and it's clearly a medicine. And there's a lot of information that's going to be coming this year because I know a lot of other people who are looking into it with the same fervor.

1:56:57SpeakerThat I'm going to be doing this year. And I think that we're going to find out some information this year that we will be able to turn around and politely offer those who control the reins of making the rules and say, sir, this is what we have found out. This is a potentiator of this. This is a helper of that. This will do this. Here's our relational database for you to take a look at.

1:57:22SpeakerHaven't we already done that from the dawn? I mean, in all honesty, the information part of it hasn't been the bottleneck. It's been their ability to absorb and basically get away from their corporate ties to take this information as truth. Like we all have. I mean, that's the big obstacle, no? Why have they put the thumb in the dike of research if that statement is true? I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

1:57:49SpeakerBecause of profiting from the companies that are making money off keeping it illegal. I mean, straight up. I mean, go read The Emperor Wears No Clothes. I mean, this is what Jack has argued for decades, and I believe he was very right, sir. I mean. It's the industrial side of this, the hemp side of this, the canvas, that's the tree replacement, it's the pharmaceutical replacement, the alcohol replacement.

1:58:12SpeakerI could go on and on. And all those companies are profiteering on large levels legally and go walk into our politicians' offices and fucking grease their palms. And then say, fuck pot. And they go, yeah, yeah, fuck pot. Thanks for the briefcase full of money and whatever you want, we'll push.

1:58:28WadeNot to forget the prison industry.

1:58:30SpeakerOklahoma fucking earthquakes and we get all these problems, bro.

1:58:35ForrestGood point, Wade.

1:58:36SpeakerWe start greasing some palms too. Look, if that's the method, you know what they say, when in Rome, act like a fucking Italian.

1:58:45Hemp GuyMark, I have a question for you, an analytical question. So if material is heavily contaminated with mildew or botrytis and they make hash out of it, like dry sift or whatever, is the material intrinsically contaminated? Is there a way with chemical solvents to completely Make what you capture completely clean and free of toxins.

1:59:21Dr Mark ScialdoneSorry, I was muted. Yeah. Yeah, you could purify.

1:59:29Hemp GuyYou could start with mold and end up with gold.

1:59:34Dr Mark ScialdoneMolding product that still had cannabinoids. Yeah, you could purify it. Cannabinoids. I'm not endorsing.

1:59:43Hemp GuyNo, I've never done it, so I didn't know. But I would have thought that maybe some of the problems aren't necessarily spores, but it's actually they produce toxins themselves. But I know that's like aspergillus and stuff like that.

2:00:03Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. They produce toxins. They also start oxidizing the cannabinoids. So I think you're going to see like lower cannabinoid levels. But if you are like making distillate, you know, if you're distilling it and you're purifying it, you're purifying CBD by crystallizing it or purifying THC by doing a high vacuum fractional distillation. Yeah, I mean, you're purifying it.

2:00:31Hemp GuyWhat you're saying is in theory, it's totally clean and safe at that point.

2:00:38BubblemanI also had a question for Dr. Mark. What have you been smoking?

2:00:55SpeakerWith some of them crappy ass fake terpenes in it. That's what he's smoking.

2:01:00BubblemanOh, why are you puffing fake terpenes, bro? I'm just saying.

2:01:04Dr Mark ScialdoneHere, hold on a second. Can I share my...

2:01:10SpeakerCan I share my screen with you? From a grower's perspective and a consumer's perspective, I think that I don't think as myself as a consumer I'm as worried about mold in the pot I get as I am about growth hormones and pesticides and poisons that have been added by someone other than nature because truth be told, I mean, you can't have a loaf of bread on your counter too long and mold will come in and fuck with you.

2:01:35SpeakerSo at 2 in the morning, you better be observant, you know, and Well, we have these other things all around us. I mean, we can't go outside and not have spores around us. I mean, it's impossible not to when we're not in a sterile planet. Right, but haven't we discussed microbials and hives? Growth hormones and stuff that are invisible, that's really fucked up. Yeah.

2:01:58ForrestYou know, I don't know, and Mark, maybe you can help me understand this, but I've toured a lot of labs over the last few years, and one of the things I see consistently come up where they're having trouble is some of the extraction heat points to some of these cannabinoids are almost identical to some of the pesticides that are out there. And they're finding that when they're trying to even make those isolates, because they're so similar in where their points are, that they're having a really hard time even separating some of these pesticides when they're in there from some of the cannabinoids.

2:02:32ForrestIs that something that you're familiar with?

2:02:36Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, I've heard this before too. I mean, I can't speak from... Experience in having a data set in front of me that shows that you can or cannot separate out, say, some of these common active ingredients. Most of them would either thermally degrade at the temperatures that you'd be doing distillation at, so you wouldn't necessarily be looking for... You wouldn't necessarily be looking for the compounds.

2:03:09Dr Mark ScialdoneYou'd be looking for their degradation products because some of these things just aren't built to distill. Other things, yeah, you're right. They are high enough molecular weight that even if you're doing a high vacuum distillation, they could co-distill. Thank you for joining us.

2:03:50Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, did someone ask what I was smoking? Yes. We sure did. That's some CBG and CBC, huh? Yeah, so this is interesting. What's CBCA?

2:04:07Dr Mark ScialdoneCBGA, right? Yeah.

2:04:10BubblemanA little bit, but more CBG.

2:04:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, yeah. So obviously this has been decarbed. There's no question about it, right? There's hardly any THCA. It's all mostly THC. No Delta-8. So that's good. So it was decarbed properly. And not a whole lot of CBN, although, you know, 0.6% is, you know, it's measurable. I mean, they could see it here. But, John, did you say that this was train wreck? Is that this train?

2:04:46SpeakerYeah, that was train wreck. I mean, I extracted that five years ago, and it sat in the freezer for five years. And Johnny wanted to sell some of it to a friend of his, so he took it out and decarbed it.

2:05:00Hemp GuyOkay, so it's a decarbed five-year-old tree.

2:05:06Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, D-card, five-year-old train wreck made with John's extractor.

2:05:13ForrestThat might account for the CBN.

2:05:16Dr Mark ScialdoneJohn, would you characterize this as trim or nug or a combination of both?

2:05:22SpeakerNo, trim. It was trim. It was only trim. Okay.

2:05:27Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, I mean, holy shit. To get an extract that's 71% or 72% by weight cannabinoids from trim... That's a nice extraction. I mean, that's a nice extract, right?

2:05:41SpeakerYeah.

2:05:42Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, so what that says is that if you add up all these numbers, you can see it adds up to 71.96. So that's the 71.96%. So that means that there's... Oh, and there's some terpenes that were measured here. Oh, by the way, these results are from CW Analytical Laboratories, courtesy of... Our friends at Carrova, so courtesy of Danny.

2:06:09Hemp GuyAlso, too, Mark, these are the neutral cannabinoids, which means in the acid form, they were even higher.

2:06:17ForrestYeah. What was the extraction method?

2:06:21SpeakerThe extraction method was John's machine, like all my extractions are. It comes out of my extractor raw like that, and I've been saying that, but here...

2:06:34Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, so there's also 1.4% terpenes, and I guess most noticeably here is fenchone and beta-caryophyllene. These are, you know, not even at one weight percent. So you can see not a whole lot of myrcene here, so probably in the decarboxylation process, which was probably just done in an oven, John. Is that how this stuff was decarbed?

2:07:04SpeakerYeah, under vacuum in an oven.

2:07:07Dr Mark ScialdoneUnder vacuum in an oven. So, yeah, there was probably a fair amount of terpene loss in that process. Oh, yeah.

2:07:15SpeakerActually, I recovered all those terpenes with a cold finger right outside of the oven, so I've got them all. That's the green and golden ones.

2:07:25Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah, they're no longer in the oil, which is the data that we're looking at. So, the point is, is that 71 point...

2:07:33Dr Mark ScialdoneSo that means of this material is got probably like about 25% waxes and lipids. It's not cannabinoids. It's not terpenes. It's just whatever's else there that's being extracted that's not there. But here's the wonderful thing is if we scroll down here, we see that there's no isobutane Isopentane, Hexane, or any of these other bad actors. No N-Butane. So no residual solvents as billed. So you're seeing it here.

2:08:16SpeakerYeah, somebody asked, I thought you didn't need to use a vacuum oven. Well, we don't need to use a vacuum oven for that. We were decarbing it with the vacuum oven. So pay attention.

2:08:31Dr Mark ScialdoneSo anyway, there's some data from some oil that was made with John's extractor.

2:08:40SpeakerShow us the eye data again.

2:08:45SpeakerShow us the eye data again.

2:08:49SpeakerYou know those two tiny spots behind your glasses?

2:08:57BubblemanStraight out of East Van, huh?

2:09:03Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, I would say that, yeah, it's a mean, well, I also, Jake sampled it too, so Jake liked it too. But as I think John had mentioned in the chat, I forgot to take the green terpene with me, John.

2:09:18SpeakerYeah, you didn't forget stash, but you forgot the green terpene, huh? That's pretty interesting. Yeah.

2:09:26Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, and after taking all kinds of heat last week on Hash Church, okay, we will figure out what the green terpene is. It'll just take a little bit longer. The world will just have to wait. The world can wait.

2:09:38SpeakerI sent it off Friday. I sent it off Friday, and hopefully next weekend we have some answers about it. I'm very, very interested in seeing.

2:09:50Hemp GuyI can't wait. I'm not going to wait, and I can't wait.

2:09:55SpeakerWell, look, if I could send you a bottle of fucking Amsterdam, I would, but I don't think that's going to fly. I'm trying to send a little something to someone else, I promised, which shall remain unnamed here because I was informed afterward. Fucking that shit on there is still illegal. And so anyway, look, I'm not hiding anything. I want to get it all out in the open.

2:10:21SpeakerI don't want people commenting. LOL, LOL, green terpenes. Bunch of idiots who still don't realize it's one blue terpene and one yellow terpene mixed that makes green. Probably they didn't have crowns when they were kids.

2:10:35Dr Mark ScialdoneWe don't know that yet. We don't know that yet.

2:10:38SpeakerThey didn't get a box of crowns when they were kids, and so that's the problem there. But anyway.

2:10:45Dr Mark ScialdoneYou mean if I take the yellow crayon and I mix it with the blue crayon and I get the green crayon?

2:10:51BubblemanWell, like I said, guys, when it gets tested, we won't have to guess anymore. I'd really like to bring the conversation back to Forrest, who's kind of our guest here today, talking about Silas.

2:11:01SpeakerI'm sorry, Forrest. Carry on.

2:11:03BubblemanYeah, I just wanted to bring it back to what Wade and Forrest are doing with this group and sort of talk a little bit more about Silas. How Silas has been finding his, you know, cannabis medications for the, you know, for the last six months or so. Is he doing better than worse? You know, give us an update on his situation.

2:11:26ForrestSure. Well, thanks. Yeah, no, this is great. I'm enjoying the conversation, so no worries. Same here. But yeah, you know, this is, you know what, I mean, it's a long story, but essentially when the cultivation ban happened up here, what happened to us is what I'm trying to protect other families from, and The people who were able to cultivate for us were no longer able to. The sheriff had a lot of pressure on folks that he knew of.

2:11:54ForrestSo we lost kind of our lineage of consistent medication, had to find new extraction methods. We had to just essentially start from scratch. And when that happened, you know, we lost the medicine that we were using for Silas. And he... Really, I was actually in an ad hoc committee meeting with the Board of Supervisors when he had his first like really life-threatening seizure. Again, so after 18 months of, you know, he has 10 different seizure types, so some are more dangerous than others, but after 18 months of not a single tonic-clonic, which are grand mal seizures, He they came back and they kind of came back with a vengeance you know and so he's he's had probably 70 or 75 of those in just the last few months and although I have access because we're working with groups and having a lot more success with other people's kids we've tried to recreate the Thank you for joining us.

2:13:04ForrestSo no, I mean, it hurt him. Having our whole medicine chain upended and having to start from scratch has hurt us significantly. And after not being in hospitals for almost two years, you know, he's been hospitalized twice. We were having, I think he had four or five grandmas just last week. And we're working with it. So we're really working on donation basis right now. Thank you for watching.

2:13:45ForrestNo, he's, in all honesty, he's struggling now. And I put a link up here that you guys can check out to a video that we made that kind of shows that. It shows before, it shows our local sheriff talking about me and us personally as far as trying to sell people on the fact that we're just, you know, he really did a good job telling people that we're just a front for commercial growers and it's not real and We'll be right back.

2:14:32ForrestAnd it's important for people to realize that cannabis isn't, it's not a black or white thing, you know, and I know you guys know that, but for folks who might be checking this out, it's not that it either works completely or it doesn't. It is still the most effective medicine he's had. But when you're dealing with someone who's had, you know, 2,500 seizures a month, that, you knock it down by 80%, that leftover 20% still leaves you somewhere around, you know, 500 seizures.

2:14:56ForrestSo... We have to really kind of put that context in there and know that, yeah, things are bad and they're worse than they would have been. But, you know, the only reason we're here to keep fighting is because of the cannabis medicine we do have. But we don't have access. I don't have access up in the hills. I mean, everything in Nevada County is banned. So all the extraction we're doing, obviously, is not kosher as far as the law, but it also really limits our ability to get sophisticated extraction labs up.

2:15:25ForrestSo, you know, THCA is not an easy thing for me to come by where others, it could be, you know, we're working more with solventless extractions and rosin presses to help sort of do that. But some of the real more specific high-end extractions, we don't have a lot of access to. Thank you for joining us.

2:16:00ForrestSort of extraction methods, rosin presses are something we're working with more now to help develop more consistent acidic lines. But even with the rosin press, you're going to get some decarb with the heat that you're using and you're going to have whatever the plant has to offer. You can't really get a THC sort of... THCA, Isolate, and some of those other things that we were having some success with in the past.

2:16:24ForrestSo we're in a rebuild here. And that's, you know, that kind of goes back to what I was saying about the Caladrius Network and trying to develop a safety net for families so that this doesn't happen. They don't just lose everything all of a sudden because it's not, you don't just get it back right away with some of these kids in these rare conditions. It takes time.

2:16:43BubblemanSo here's a question for you, Forrest. I've also, you know, like there's sort of two states of mind for me or two pathways to when I look down. A lot of people are often like, oh, why are you, you know, I showed a molecular short path distillation unit from VTA via Root Sciences and people were like, oh, why are you promoting that? Why are you showing it?

2:17:00BubblemanI'm like, well, monomolecular medicine is obviously going to have its place. Thank you for joining us.

2:17:33BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

2:17:56ForrestNo, definitely. I mean, I think, you know, you got to realize that I speak through a particular lens. So I'm not speaking in generalities as far as what works generally for most people. And I think that your two to one, one to one, 25 to one that you see commonly in stores, that's going to work for a lot of general people, you know, but when you're focusing on Thank you for joining us.

2:18:38ForrestThank you for joining us.

2:18:59ForrestWe've kind of knocked down, we've knocked those levels off, you know, where we just see lots of myrcene and lots of THC and we don't really see that profile. And I think where we see a lot of benefit in some of these other plants, it's just that we're getting closer back to that more, a more balanced profile in its terpenes flavonoids and, and Thank you so much for joining us.

2:19:33ForrestWe'll see you next time.

2:19:48ForrestI really don't think that's possible with cannabis. That's where that fear comes from. If they were to figure out a way to rein this in to where we couldn't do it in our backyard, it would have been legal a long time ago. But they know that they can't, which is why there's so much fight against legalization because we really do have the ability to do this ourselves to a certain extent.

2:20:09ForrestI'm not too afraid of it. I'm working on all those paths. We definitely want to be able to have A much more sophisticated sort of medicine cabinet, so to speak, to where as we bring people in, it's more like a individualized therapies and treatment so that we are meeting with them at a wellness center. We are coaching and educating them. We are helping them learn how to track and identify what is successful, what isn't successful, and then being able to, ideally, when the dream come true, being able to really fine tune those medicines.

2:20:41ForrestYeah, dial it in. Yeah, dial it in for those kids. Because that need's always going to be there. And that one medicine that might work for that little girl in a wheelchair, it's not going to be profitable to make 50,000 of those and put them on shelves when it's only going to help that one.

2:20:57BubblemanI always dreamed about this sort of machine that you could literally plug little vials into that had pure cannabinoids, all the ones that exist in acid and non-acid form, all of the terpenes, and then just have that plugged into a program that Thank you for joining us.

2:21:24BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

2:21:54ForrestThank you so much for joining us.

2:22:21ForrestYou're likely going to need because we understand the cause of what's triggering the problem.

2:22:28WadeI want to add something here. I think that the concept that you're describing of having a pharmaceutical machine that can produce custom formulations for individuals based on maybe their genetics and the condition they're trying to treat is likely to happen. I personally am really more enthusiastic at the idea that as we learn more about the cannabis plant in the way that Forrest was describing how it's been really a prisoner for so many years, we are increasingly bringing it out into where we can start exploring all the different aspects that the way that plant can express itself and that It's been my experience in working with other healing plants besides cannabis that they show themselves, if you look for them, the plants are there for our benefit and cannabis particularly is really responsive to humans.

2:23:35WadeWe create new versions of it every year, even more often than that sometimes, but As it comes out more and more the therapeutic aspects of cannabis, I really think that what I would love to see is that people would be able to go to a nursery and have information about what varieties of cannabis are going to flourish in the environment where they live, in the garden where they live, Thank you for joining us today.

2:24:31WadeIf you will, the marketplace does not own the medicine. That's really what I'm about. I don't want to see pharmaceutical companies being able to define if Forrest is going to be able to help Silas. I want Forrest to be able to help Silas directly. It's a personal thing. I think that's why a lot of people who are involved with cannabis come to the medical aspects. They personally know someone or have an experience in their own life where they realize that cannabis actually has Thank you for joining us.

2:25:19WadeI mean, it's like we're in Amsterdam.

2:25:21BubblemanIt may be happening already, but I say that more as a like a point of access. I certainly wouldn't want it to be my only point of access. And I certainly would never accept it as an alternative to my or anyone's ability to grow for myself. I just I love all of the access points. I want them all to be there. I just want to be able to have, because some people are more comfortable with certain things, and I see this over and over and over again in our community in particular.

2:25:50BubblemanThat particularly with epileptic children, that it's real sensitive dosing and real sensitive profiling that if any one little thing changes, it seems to just disappear. And that's a scary thing to go through as a parent who's already going through hell with their child, having seizures, and just affecting everything, basically.

2:26:16SpeakerWhat about the idea of Having a big grow around a mental institution or place where kids that are needing that kind of stuff so they can breathe in the terpenes produced all day by this. I mean, we haven't, flower essence therapy has been around for years. And so now these are flowers, and the terpenes from these flowers are far more potent. They're potentiators of the oil. And the fact that you get high off it as well proves to me that it's a God-given thing.

2:26:47SpeakerHere, you can have food, you can have medicine, you can buy. There's never mana in the Bible, but it was manawana.

2:26:57WadeIt's been my experience when patients have come to visit me here at my home and are able to go out in the garden, I ask them to go and look at the plants that are there and find the one that's right for them. And children particularly love to do that. Adults enjoy it as well. And it's amazing to me how often they go and they know which plant or plants that they want.

2:27:26WadeThey're good at picking out ones that are similar to each other. And usually, particularly a child, I'm thinking of one little girl with autism. She not only knew which plant was right for her, she knew which plant was right for her brother and her mother. Her mother was there for breast cancer. She was there for autism. Her brother has... It escapes me at the moment what Jonathan's dealing with.

2:27:54WadeAnyway, pardon me. But yeah, she was very clear about this plant is the one that's right for my mother. And that was a sweet and sour widow, actually. A two-to-one phenotype that I got from Jamie in...

2:28:15WadeIn Spain. Oh, resin. Huh? Resin. Yes, yes, yes. I've been gifted from him more than once in my work.

2:28:29BubblemanI pictured his face when you said his name before you said from Barcelona.

2:28:36WadeYeah, no, that's one of the ways that Harlequin has played out beautifully in my life. I feel a little bit like Jack from the story of Jack and the Beanstalk. And I found a magic bean, so to speak, and an incredible vine grew from it that I've climbed up into. The world that I know now of having some sense of how this plant can help little children as well as older folk as well as me, you know, it really is a healing plant and the criminalization that's happened to it is kind of a tragedy that still continues.

2:29:18WadeIt's why, I mean, The difficulties associated with indoor cultivation and the challenges of keeping things free of mold and bugs and whatnot, it does take a high level of skill and dedication and cost. Professionalism is required and it's appropriate to compensate people for that. So for me, I really, I want people to be able to get this medicine at little or no cost, as was pointed out earlier today by one of the folks who shared today.

2:29:56WadeThe true cost of cannabis without prohibition is minuscule. It's comparable to cut flowers.

2:30:07WadeFor children who need literally grams a day of cannabis oil that's 60 or 70 percent cannabinoids to control their condition or to help them have a quality of life that anyone deserves, that should be, you know, Little or nothing. And right now, the only context I can find for doing that other than the work that I've done with the personal patient group I work with is with Forrest and the Caladrius Network.

2:30:38WadeWe've really... It's kind of... Popped the top of my head off how many people have come forward just as strongly as you did saying that you want to help this to happen. Professional people who do this work and understand the therapeutic possibilities in cannabis when they hear the story of Forrest and Silas and some of the other children that Forrest is helping.

2:31:07WadeYou want to help. And what's a cold hard fact about the Caladrius Network and Forrest's work is that, yeah, there's no money. All of the, no money is changing hands and

2:31:26WadeWe're trying to help these kids at no cost to those families. And all of the donations that have come to the network have been from folk who are doing their very best to make the very best medicine they know how to do. And again, at no cost to those children and to the network. And there's no room in the law Thank you for joining us.

2:32:09WadeI'm planning on having a garden here at my home this year unless the county changes the law because the sheriff's been empowered to come and write tickets that multiply at $100 a piece per day per every violation of all the hundreds of rules they have. And yeah, I could end up owning my property in no time at all if I had anything like the garden. Thank you for joining us.

2:32:56WadeForrest spoke of earlier, but it's, you know, look for it online or maybe Forrest can put it, I don't know if the Caladrius Network's website has a link to that video, Forrest, or not, but it's a very compelling 10 minutes. And you should watch it if you've got any tears in your body any place. If you watch the whole thing, you should have some Kleenex handy. It's a real thing.

2:33:26ForrestLet me share with you guys some of the kids that are not on the video. What I share and I have permission to share is my son. And I really make sure a lot of the parents' stories, they're just not ready to be public yet because of social issues. Thank you for joining us.

2:34:10ForrestThank you for joining us.

2:34:29ForrestAs well as being given methadone, both these kids. This is what's being sold to these kids at five and six years old to deal with pain.

2:34:37WadeAnd these kids rarely survive to adulthood, isn't that right?

2:34:40ForrestYeah, typically die in their teens from cancer because of the constant wounds. So we started developing and working with really high-end topicals. You know, he had this wound on his neck because the skin folds there so much that it had to be taped shut. And what we were really trying to do is just deal with the pain. And what she told us, and what breaks my heart about these pictures, it's not the wound itself but this grimace here that can only come from a life of pain that is hard to imagine.

2:35:09ForrestThank you for joining us.

2:35:34ForrestThank you for watching.

2:35:57ForrestThis wound had been there for seven years. So I just want to put in context when we talk, when I say patients and conditions that are more horrific than most people understand, you know, what does that mean? And with internal cannabinoid dosing and using these topicals that we developed, within five weeks, this was his knee after the fact. Now, you might see that there's still a wound there.

2:36:20ForrestBut it's the level of inflammation. You have about a cantaloupe-sized knee here that is swollen. And all these wounds, this guy here had closed, all these superficial wounds underneath, and eventually this wound on top closed as well. Now what we haven't been able to do is fix a lot of the problems with these kids is that they have... The itches is the skin heals, you know, so we've seen in certain strains like Chemdog and others that the itching, you know, causes them to remake the wounds.

2:36:53ForrestBut we don't know what these children's life will be like if we can stop the wounds from festering for seven, eight years. That's what eventually kills them. And now we have the ability to treat those things. So, you know, in working with silence and kids who are suffering and again, there's that video that you guys can go watch or we can play it, whatever you think is best.

2:37:13ForrestI've met all these other families, and to be honest, some of them are so horrific that I felt like we got lucky. It could have been worse for even us. This is just the community and the level of suffering that I hope to make everyone aware of, because I think, like we said earlier, when we see it, it becomes a no-brainer that we have to do something about it, and it's just, what are we going to do?

2:37:39ForrestWhere are you at, Forrest? I'm in Nevada County in California, Northern California.

2:37:46SpeakerI have excess of oil every month that I could give you. I mean, I give away about 1,000 grams a month of oil and hash to people with Crohn's disease and other problems. But I would give you... Some oil or whatever it is that could regularly. And this summer we're going to grow this really huge place. All the cultivars that you can think of, all of the, I've already got all the terpene profiles and cannabinoid profiles for all the cultivars.

2:38:19SpeakerAnd I will be extracting from those things regularly and can give you a regular supply.

2:38:28ForrestOh, that's wonderful. And I'd love to be in touch, you know, and that's the attitude that I hear from the cannabis industry. I mean, we're only helping a handful of families now because we're small and we still have to get the legal framework in place for us to be able to do this legally. But the reality is, is people are lining up to support this cost. And, um, Really, what I can provide is one, we use our brand kind of like we would use a American Heart Association or Breast Cancer Awareness brand so that companies who are putting in the social good can put the Caladrius Network seal on their product.

2:39:06ForrestAnd what we do is from someone who's just a father and a parent, We try to promote and advocate for those brands that are doing social good and try to teach people in their community, if you're going to support a brand, you too can also help save lives. You too can help affect the lives of these children just by changing your shopping habits and supporting these companies who are out there to do more than just sell a product.

2:39:31ForrestThey're interested in the good in their communities. And that's where you start to get a mutual partnership that makes helping beneficial in all ways. I always bring this up and every company inevitably says, well, we don't care about that. We just want to help these kids. And that's what nobody believes is happening in the cannabis community. They think it's all selfish money and drugs. And that's where I try to get a platform to where they can't ignore me because I'm a parent.

2:39:56ForrestThey can ignore all of you guys and other adults. They don't care about adults who are suffering. But politicians, lucky for us and for me, still have to pay attention to dying kids. So I get in that platform and then I start, that's what I talked about earlier where I start to rub in their face, who has the moral and ethical high ground? And what I see is that attitude right there of a cannabis community who not only is able to, but is jumping at the opportunity to help in suffering of these people in these horrific conditions if they would just get the hell out of the way so that we could do so.

2:40:29SpeakerHave you tried mixing terpenes with the seed oil to see if it's potentiating any of that?

2:40:38WadeYeah, the cream that's going to the EB kids has the terpenes put back in it.

2:40:44ForrestYeah, we have to put them back in cold so that they stay at the levels we want, but our efficacy went through the roof when we were able to get our isolated terpenes back into the creams that we make for the kids.

2:40:56SpeakerWell, we're going to focus. We bought a whole bunch of CM1000 by Science 710 of these very beautiful high-tech terpene collectors. And we're going to be having these hooked up On both sides of the chamber and we're going to collect these terpenes like there's no tomorrow. And I want the first people to get the terpenes. I mean, yeah, they're nice to smoke, but I would like to see those kids and other people who have stuff like that.

2:41:27SpeakerI would love to see these terpenes potentiate their treatment. That would put a smile on my face that no toke of a joint will ever manage to do.

2:41:36ForrestOh man, you get a hug from one of these kids and one of their parents and they're crying thanking you for saving their kids' lives and I tell you there's nothing better than that right there.

2:41:44SpeakerI worked at Free Hospital in India for 12 years and I very well know that dynamic, man. My only paycheck there in India was the kids and moms and dads smiles when the kids could breathe and walk better again. So I'm totally with you on this and I got you back on it. I'm going to give you The stuff that you need to help you along as best as I can as we get this up and running this summer.

2:42:10ForrestSounds wonderful. Yeah, I think a lot of the differences in those medicines, we talk about what's changing. That's why I asked the action meds, because a lot of people are doing different things, but they get the same strain, they get the same THC to CBD ratio, but within that attraction method, all those sensitive phytocannabinoids can be in very different levels with the terpenes and things like that.

2:42:31ForrestSo that is, I'm convinced just by the work that we've done with tons of families that You know, that plays a significant role. So I hear that you're catching those things.

2:42:41SpeakerYou know, the cosmos is very mysterious. And sometimes in order to get people excited about something, it has to create a deficiency that the people have to turn around and look at. I mean, mysterious are the ways of the cosmos when it gives us information. When we step from the finite to the infinite on this plant, we will really be going somewhere. I have a feeling that That the reason that this plant has all these terpenes and cannabinoids and is also a food source and an oil source and a protein isolate source is because it was divinely given to us.

2:43:17SpeakerAnd I think that this stuff shouldn't cost a bunch of money. But sadly, the system that we have to work within forces some of this. There's a lot of people who are strictly...

2:43:34SpeakerI hear from them all the time and it's never been that way with me. I gave BHO away in the first place because I wanted to potentiate healing and for everybody to be able to get high. I was disturbed by the fact that you couldn't get honey oil at that point in time and so I just freely gave it out. And I'm going to freely give out all the information and Dr. Mark is going to help us understand why All of the chemical processes in our complete lab that we're going to have down there because we're drafting his butt and bringing it there so that we can bring some resolution to all this.

2:44:10SpeakerI don't want to guess anymore. Somebody tell me, well, yeah, I think this is what it does based on this. I want to see some laboratory results and a relational database generated out of this project that everybody can dig into and come to the whole world. Everybody deserves healing. Everyone does.

2:44:30WadeI really want to jump in for a second here and say the data thing is really important. And in the work of the Colladrius Network, the two kinds of data that we really need more access to are information about how the patients that are receiving the products we're all making are responding to the therapies we're offering them. And that's kind of hard to quantify, but something that is a little easier to quantify and is probably as important right now is information about what different varieties, cultivars of cannabis, how they express the various cannabinoids and terpenes that We find.

2:45:22WadeMy experience has been that, again, depending on the environment and the cultivation practices and whatnot, different cultivars express their cannabinoid potentials and their terpenes differently. In different environments and test results from environments indoor and then test results from that same cultivar outdoor, I've seen them. They're different. And meantime, a body of data All of that built up over that would help guide the breeders in finding cultivars.

2:45:56WadeVarious crosses could be made of things that had this and that, and meantime both did well in a particular environment. And the offspring of that cross likely would be something that could be beneficially used quite easily, very responsive to the environment that it was cultivated for. Basically going about creating land races, if you will. Trying to identify specific cultivators that have the cannabinoids and terpenes that we're looking for and that they express fully and to the greatest potential in the different environments that we're all working in.

2:46:33WadeThat kind of data, I think, if we could work together, that's one of the goals of the Caladrius Network from my point of view. Thank you for joining us.

2:46:58WadeAnd again, the data and one of the benefits of Colladrius Networks activities already is various PhD types have popped up from the wine industry, from the commercial agricultural oil industry, from From this circle of people right here, folk who are pioneers in this work with cannabis, we really need to, I would like to see us start sharing the information and the technology in the way that we've all done, but start concretizing that data so that we could all look at it and know that in

2:47:40WadeAgain, to just speak of my situation, I'm not sure what all different environments you all are dealing with, but in my situation, we have here on the west slope of the Sierras in California, the outdoor environment is, the cultivars that I've worked with in my garden, some of them responded really well to this environment. Others, not so well. And what I found is by chasing some of those that did well, I'm continuing to find various expressions of that that are doing even better than that original plant did.

2:48:18WadeAnd meantime, new things are popping up in test results. And so I want to share that data with any of you that are interested in it. I've got a book of test results and I'm told that we can send them in email form to other folk. So again, I'm not very tech savvy, but I know people who are. That will help me. And I imagine all y'all know this because you're doing this.

2:48:45WadeBut seriously, that kind of data about how the various cultivars express in different environments and how the cultivars benefit specific patients with specific conditions And ideally someday we could even add in what is it about those patients because like to go back to Forrest and Silas and Lennox-Gussideau syndrome. I have a patient in my patient group, Cam, who I don't have pictures of or any of that, but he's a 28-year-old young man now

2:49:21WadeWhen he was born, he and his mother suffered through an in utero virus infection that resulted in him being born profoundly disabled and was given an estimated two year lifespan at birth. Well, meantime, he's made it to 28 years old. And I first met him because he was on, I think they said, 15 different pharmaceutical medications trying to control seizures and was basically dying. And they'd been told cannabis might help him.

2:50:04WadeAnyway.

2:50:08WadeLet's get him some. Cam is a story that actually right now has a good outcome. I've known him four years now and have been able to a plant called Remedy actually. His parents make an oil using ultrasound in mid-chain triglyceride with a small centrifuge and they give it to him in a feeding tube. And he's gone from being fully withdrawn and non-verbal and non-responsive to actually trying to push himself up out of the wheelchair to help his mother after he's told her he needs to go to the bathroom.

2:50:49WadeThat's all happened in the last year. So there's a story where cannabis is helping and we've been able to find a cultivar that's benefiting at least one patient. I'm not confident that that benefit will continue. I have fear that he may get acclimated to it. There's no data.

2:51:16WadeAgain, I come back to the data thing. So if you have access to that kind of information, if you could start putting it together in a way that it could be shared, There are doctors who would love to look at this data. And like I said, the Caladrius Network has already, we've had folks step forward to say they'd assist us in gathering and putting the data together in a form that was accessible to us to be used in this way.

2:51:45WadeI'll stop now.

2:51:47SpeakerAs a retired osteopath, I can tell you that these guys will only look at these data sets. If it's a competent relational database that assures them that what they're looking at is backed up by proper research so they could do something with it. And so the idea of this relational database has been on my mind for a number of years now. And I hope to make it almost like a spreadsheet so they can look at it and decide, here's symptoms, here's beneficial terpenes, here's oil that are potentiated by the terpene, here's terpene mixes.

2:52:28SpeakerYou know, that's what I want to do. And I'm going to, I'm 71. I don't know how much longer I'm going to live, but I'm going to spend the next year or two working this out. And if the good Lord decides that I can stay here and continue to do work, I'll be here. Otherwise, I'll terpene out someday. But hopefully by then, I will have left enough information behind so that people will be able to pick it up and say, hey, here's a good starting point.

2:52:55SpeakerThat's about all you can hope for.

2:53:02SpeakerI'd love to see your kids. I mean, look, I was a combat field medic in Vietnam. I came back. I went through every kind of medical training. I've studied with Chinese doctors. I've studied with, as far down the ladder as in Mexico. I've studied with Chinese, everything with Thai, with Vietnamese, all of it because everybody has their own hit on it.

2:53:32SpeakerWhen you start to synthesize all these things, like for instance, Mark was here and I restored his breath. You can ask him how he felt afterwards. And it was not a medical treatment per se, but it made a big difference to Mark, didn't it, Mark?

2:53:54WadeYep. Well, that's therapeutic, though, and beneficial.

2:53:59SpeakerWell, it is, but everything is therapeutic. Everything we eat, the food is the medicine, so the idea that they want to separate us off from some plants as not being good for us just blows my mind. It's all food. It was all here from the beginning. You guys might have been here first, and you made that rule, but so what? Screw that rule. It turns out it doesn't apply anymore to us.

2:54:23SpeakerAnd we don't want to be held to the same rules that these old people who are scared to death of pot and scared to death of these kinds of things because they don't understand. And what people don't understand, they fear. And so the whole reason I'm attempting to do this research this year is to alleviate fear of using this out of people's minds and opening them up to the fact that this has been here for a long time for us.

2:54:52SpeakerLook, our bodies are full of it. Cows eat it and they feel better. My God, what more information do you need? So it's obviously not about any of that. It's only about control. And we got to remove this from the political arena. It's just like politicians trying to regulate medicine and say what doctors can and cannot do. It's all bullshit. You're the doctor. You're in charge of everything.

2:55:17SpeakerThey should be telling you not to take medicine.

2:55:19ForrestIf that medicine works for you, man, that is your medicine.

2:55:22SpeakerYou know, it's just that's the way things are. And by the way, I did see that silly ass Doctor Strange movie had nothing to do with what I described here. But yeah. Anyway, put that aside. I really believe that we have a chance to go somewhere with this. And we got to climb out of the rut of having their thumb on us about all of it. I don't want to see a machine come along that That does all that.

2:55:52SpeakerI guess it's going to happen someday. But I would rather see people open their minds and hearts up and start just like that little girl you said who walked in and took a look at that plant and said, this is my plant and that's my mom's plant. We all have that inside of us. But they're going to force us to research anyway. So I'm going to give in and do it this year, next year, and the year after if I have to.

2:56:17SpeakerTo come up with the truth because I'm sick and tired of the BS and speculation. And those guys are the real speculators. They're going, well, just like on TV the other day, say opioids and marijuana are really bad. One leads the other. And I wanted to get on TV and slap him because that kind of information, there's a bunch of people sitting out there going, I knew it.

2:56:45SpeakerI knew it.

2:56:45ForrestOpioids and marijuana.

2:56:47SpeakerBad news. And we got a lot of people in this country who operate on that level. I saw it on TV. I believe it. Hey, Mark. I want to say thanks. I'm going to bounce out of you guys. I hope you all have a great day. First, thank you for joining us.

2:57:03ForrestYeah, thanks for having me.

2:57:04SpeakerYeah, for sure. It was really nice to have you both on today. I hope you come back on again, John, Mark, Mark.

2:57:11WadePeace.

2:57:13BubblemanThanks for showing up. Yeah, what a great day today. Good conversation had by all for sure. I'm definitely stoked to have had both you guys on. I would love to have you guys back again to continue the conversation.

2:57:29WadeWould do.

2:57:31BubblemanAbsolutely. Hopefully Tony will come on. I know he was so excited to have you guys on. I thought he would make it on as well. But I don't know what happened to him today. I think he... He must have been up real late last night working hard as Tony often does. But yeah, I think three hours is a solid church. Definitely going to be posting all of the information in regards to...

2:57:57BubblemanUh, the, the, I don't want to mispronounce it again. So I will get the Caladrius Network. Yes. Caladriusnetwork.org. You guys can check them out. We're definitely going to figure something out. I'm going to contact Forrest, uh, via email and figure out how I can support it, whether through my brand or whether through bubble bags or whether through a variety of projects that I'm on right now. We're definitely always, always wanting to do, um, uh, Just the good work, you know, when I first met Hillary Black and she started the BC Compassion Club, that was really where I was able to start this sort of, you know, I don't even like to call it philanthropy.

2:58:34BubblemanIt's just being a good human, you know, called being a good human. And I don't have enough of it in my life anymore. So I really, the minute I heard you talk about it, I want to be a part of it for sure. So wonderful. Yeah, thank you guys for coming in and doing the good work that you're doing and obviously thank the whole panel, Mark and Todd and Indra and Johnny B and Skunk Man Sam.

2:59:01WadeCan I speak up for a second? Please do, absolutely.

2:59:06WadeThere it is. Houseofharlequin.org. And yeah, you can get the rest of the story about how I found Harlequin and why I got that name and see some photos of the garden. And there's a couple of videos there. Like I said, I'm not very tech savvy, but it's a pretty good website. Check it out.

2:59:25BubblemanYes, I'm going to share it.

2:59:26WadeAnd I'll be back.

2:59:28BubblemanYeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You guys definitely have a standing invitation. I'll make sure we get you guys the link again. And houseofharlequin.org as well as the, don't make the mistake. Caladrius. Caladriusnetwork.org. I'm going to do some research on that. What, what, what, that. What is that, like a myth from which?

2:59:47ForrestIt's Roman mythology.

2:59:49BubblemanIt is Roman mythology. Okay, I wasn't sure if it was Greek or Roman.

2:59:51WadeAnd the trick with pronouncing it is in Latin, they pronounce every syllable. So if you look at it as co-lad-ry-us network. Co-lad-ry-us.

3:00:04ForrestLearn something new every day. Cheers. There it is.

3:00:06BubblemanAwesome, everyone. And hey, thank you for watching Hash Church. All of you guys out there in the world watching right now. We have just over 800 people watching live originally. And yeah, I'm sure 10,000 plus people are going to watch this episode and be touched. And hopefully you will. Do your part and donate and support the great work that these guys are doing. We will see you all next week on Hash Church episode 129.

3:00:31BubblemanThanks for watching, everybody. Thanks, guys. Peace out.

3:00:34WadePeace.

3:00:36SpeakerNice meeting you guys, by the way.