Cannabis News and Dennis Perrone

0:04SpeakerWe made it. We're here. I'm in Jamaica. The internet may be dodgy. I'm hoping that it's not. We tried to get this going on with Todd. Difficulties this morning. So I am going to send him the link right now as well as to the rest of the crew that's in here right now. All arrive. Oh, let me guess. All of those messages have now been disappeared. That's nice.

0:30SpeakerThat's my favorite. I'm not. I love when that happens. A few minutes while I'm live, unfortunately, and go into my Facebook and redo the entire message list that I organized, which is unfortunate because it was a good one. I invited some people that I haven't seen in a while, hoping that they would maybe come in. And I guess here we go again. The best we can. Hey, welcome, Todd.

1:02ToddHey, how you doing? I haven't seen you in a while. Thank you for your patience, everybody.

1:09SpeakerJust trying to make the list here. The list I made for the Facebook group, it disappeared.

1:18SpeakerRay had put into the list to send the link to, and of course I forget all the time. I don't have an easy cut and paste list.

1:28SpeakerMaybe people might think I do, but I assure you I don't. So if I forgot you today, any of you people, I apologize. It happens. It's Jamaica and we're late today, something we've never done in 124 episodes. So I apologize, everyone, for those of you out there wanting to watch Hash Church. I'll put the chat open so I can make sure that everything's working properly. How are things with you, Todd?

1:56ToddHaving a great morning, up early, trying to facilitate.

2:02Etienne FontanThere we are. Hi, everybody. Good morning, ATN. Welcome, ATN. Well, while y'all handle technical difficulties, I can run over the news. I just got in the latest cannabinoid news. Please do. All right, so top news is both are from Israel. The government wants to criminalize small-scale recreational cannabis use. Then the government wants to finance 13 research projects on cannabis in Israel. Now, of course, below that, of course, is what we've been discussing the last couple of weeks was the discussion of the assertion that CBD may be converted into THC into the stomach.

2:40Etienne FontanSo that's made the IACM news, which is the Eastern Research Study. Then some other interesting studies as we come further down. Activation of the CB2 receptor may be helpful for psoriasis. Very interesting. And then right below that, two stories on beta-caryophyllene, where beta-caryophyllene may protect the liver, for one study. And then beta-caryophyllene stimulates mineralization of osteoplasts is the second one. So next is the activation of CB1 receptors promoted growth of melanoma cells.

3:18Etienne FontanAnd then another one on CBG, interestingly enough, that CBG increases food intake. Cannabis extract rich in CBG and devoid of THC increases food intake in rats. So this is a study. And that's done out of Cambridge. And then there's a study in France about the increase of THC content in cannabis over the last couple of years, over the last, since the 2000s. And then Israel is doing another study, the difference between cannabis users and recreational users.

3:52Etienne FontanAnd the last one is Science in Animals, which is CB2 receptor function is increased in the brain region responsible for pain modulation in chronic inflammation. So a lot of interesting things happening with science and it's interesting because we've been discussing a lot of these on Hash Church recently. Hi and welcome there, Sam the Skunk Man.

4:17AtnHowdy, howdy. Did you tell folks where they can get that IAMC?

4:25Etienne FontanThe IACM? Yes, the IACM, it's the IACM Journal, which is, you can email them at info at cannabis, that's with dash med dot org. So info at cannabis.org. There are a very, very good group.

4:48AtnI've been a member since our foundation.

4:52Etienne FontanAnd I highly recommend it. It's a great way to get information. I get these weekly emails regarding the news, which gives you links to all these studies. They come through every Sunday morning, so pretty much consistently nowadays. So There's a lot of things happening around the world and it's a great way to see what's actually going on top of that. It's for researchers. It's a great database to find further research or documentation regarding what you're trying to study with cannabis.

5:23AtnDid you ever meet Franio?

5:27Etienne FontanA long time ago.

5:29AtnYeah. He used to come to those meetings in an air lung. I mean, what do you call it? Like an iron lung device to help him breathe.

5:43Etienne FontanWow.

5:44AtnHe was a serious medical user in need of cannabis.

5:49Etienne FontanRight. Without a doubt. It's not a site, people. It's an email list for the Cannabinoid International Association of Cannabinoid Medicines. So that's what the site is, but it's basically, it's a newsletter email they put out every couple of weeks. So again, that's the International Association of Cannabinoid Medicines.

6:11AtnYeah, it's actually an international group that you can join, just like the ICRS.

6:17Etienne FontanAnd I highly recommend joining it if you're a researcher or serious about cannabis. It's a great database as well as Your money goes to assisting in this research and documentation, which is key, especially now. On top of that, I got a message yesterday to my friends in Louisiana, the state where I was born, is that LSU is looking currently for contractors for growing medical cannabis in Louisiana.

6:43Etienne FontanSo that's a very interesting situation considering how restrictive The state is where I grew up. To see the LSU, which holds the only permit for medical cannabis in Louisiana, has at least broken out this way to go toward the individual farmer. So there's speculation. I put the link up yesterday in Hash Church on the Facebook page, so you can look up that information regarding that if you're in Louisiana or you know somebody who's serious about it.

7:13ToddSam, is the University of Mississippi the only university that grows under license of the government at this time?

7:24Etienne FontanI'm aware of a researcher in Minnesota.

7:27ToddAnd he's growing as well?

7:28Etienne FontanOr they're growing as well?

7:29AtnI don't think the folks in Minnesota are actually supplying patients the way Mississippi does. No, correct.

7:35Etienne FontanThey're not supplying, but they're doing research on the higher grade from what I was made aware of. Good morning, John.

7:42AtnSo is Mississippi. They're growing all kinds of different varieties now.

7:47Etienne FontanYeah, I saw a few years ago, or last year, they had an expansion of their property, and they put a breakdown of what things they were going to grow, which, of course, was another CBD strain, or at least to start doing research on that. But that's what was the last thing that I had read. Do you know anything further about that, Sam?

8:07AtnNo, I just... I talked with Dr. Osole and he said that they were growing, I don't remember if it was 50 or 100 different varieties now, trying to understand and try to have more materials available if somebody wants it.

8:24Etienne FontanAre those domestic or did he get those internationally or do we not even know?

8:28AtnI'm not sure. He has the ability to import cannabis seeds from anywhere in the world.

8:41ToddCan I just add, must be nice.

8:44SpeakerYeah. Good morning, Andrea.

8:51AtnHere in the Netherlands, we could also do the same thing.

8:57ToddYes, but you have to put up with the Netherlands winter, so I'm not sure if it's worth it.

9:03SpeakerIt is. Isn't it? Didn't they just get rid of like a nightmare politician really pushing the conservative anti-cannabis sort of movement?

9:14AtnYes, I think there is.

9:19AtnBut there's also people who are trying to... Open up the back door. In other words, coffee shops can legally sell customers five grams, but they can't legally buy it from anybody. And they're trying to figure out a way to regulate and control the back door.

9:43SpeakerThe old miracle gram, huh?

9:45ToddYeah. They have to do something about it. It's the most ridiculous policy that they could have. It just supposedly shows up, be a stork, drops, you know, out of the sky.

9:55AtnAnd it's obvious that the only way that you can control things like mold and pesticide use is by having a controllable open industry. The way it is now, they did test coffee shops two, three years ago, and more than 50% of them had fungicides and insecticides on them.

10:19Etienne FontanAre any of the retailers doing consistent testing currently or is it just a spot?

10:26AtnYou can't really, there are no private labs that are allowed to really test in the Netherlands. You have to be connected to a government licensed lab and they won't do private testing for individuals or even private businesses.

10:43Etienne FontanRight, whereas here is we took the risk and by challenging the, I guess, the FDA guidelines to an extent where, you know, it was punishable by $10,000 fine per, so it was quite a risk of these laboratories to actually step above that regulatory line financially as well as the reality that, you know, it's definitely created more laboratories that are actually doing testing here, which We've been able to get away with it here in the United States for a decade now.

11:15Etienne FontanOh, the Dutch intolerant? No, no.

11:37ToddI think they need it though. It's really, really fucked when you think about how much of a percentage of really moldy and material that shouldn't pass that we have seen presented here, even at events where you would expect the best of the best to be presented. So how many consumers in Amsterdam for the last 30, 40 years have been getting really moldy pot? I mean, you know, and don't know it because there's nothing that stops people from selling moldy pot.

12:06AtnWell, mold you can tell somewhatly. I mean, at least I can. Whereas pesticides can, I mean, if it's a low level of pesticides that are really dangerous, I'm not so sure it's so simple to tell. Depends on the variety of cannabis and how used to it you are maybe.

12:24ToddNot simple at all to tell. I think it's really sad because especially when you consider most of the people that go to those coffee shops are inexperienced to the degree that you are, I mean, for sure, you know, but inexperienced. When I go to those coffee shops, I've met a whole range of people, you know, little old ladies for the first time over from England ever smoking cannabis.

12:45ToddYou know, you just see a lot of new users because it's touristy based, in my opinion.

12:50AtnYeah, well, people just walk in off the street and want to try it.

12:57ToddAs well they should. Good morning, Mark Scaldone.

13:01SpeakerHey, how are you guys? I'm sorry, I had a call from an old friend that I had to take right when I got on.

13:07AtnHow old was your friend?

13:12SpeakerWell, he's about just as old as I am. Oh, that old, huh?

13:20SpeakerWhy am I not that old, you know? You're only as old as you act, right? You're only as old as the hash that you smoke, so whatever, you know? Except for all that white beard and white and gray hair. Oh, yeah. That's just where the vial spilled.

13:40Etienne FontanYou've been spilling a lot then, buddy.

13:43SpeakerActually had a great meeting last night with the famed fiddle player, Stuart Duncan, who sat in with a very good bluegrass band. I love to go see the Travel McCurries. And so Stuart Duncan, for those of you who don't know, has played with numerous people. He's a great studio musician, violin, fiddle player. And he's just great, great cosmic guy. And he's on a completely different level on many, many different fronts.

14:10SpeakerSo it's just great to cook up with someone like that again.

14:16SpeakerSo I had that going on.

14:22Etienne FontanAll right, well, hey, I want to give a shout out. Today is Hilary Black's birthday, so give a shout out to Hilary there.

14:30SpeakerI invited her today of all days. I was like, you know what? I'm going to invite Hilary. I haven't invited for a while. I know she probably won't come in. It's early, but I was thinking about her. So yes, happy birthday, Hilary, indeed.

14:42AtnAnd Ed Chen.

14:43SpeakerI owe you a dinner.

14:45AtnHave you heard anything further about Dennis Perrone?

14:50Etienne FontanWe are aware or have been made aware via his Facebook page that he has cancer that has spread to his brain. And that's all I really know. He is hanging with people as best as he can. Given the circumstances, I've seen pictures and people sending love to Dennis Perrone, who is one of the authors of Proposition 215 and One of the main reasons why we know medical cannabis as we know it today.

15:21Etienne FontanSo he's the, as we call him, the godfather of 215. And so we're sending out our best love and vibes. And if you have prayers or good wishes, please send them his way. It seems that he is at the end time of his life and we should show great appreciation for the good things that he has done. So please, if you have access to him, send out your love and positive energy to Dennis Perrone.

15:46Etienne FontanWe don't know anything beyond that or unless Todd, unless you know something further, it's just that's what we've been made aware of. There's been no end time. It's not like he's on hospice. He seems to be rolling around and celebrating as best as he can with people currently.

16:01SpeakerAnd I used to have an apartment next door to where one of his 5 o'clock in the evening marijuana sales scenes came on where you could go upstairs. There's about 10 guys sitting in a big circle with walks full of bud and joints. And you could sit down and try any one of them you wanted. And by some, there's a guy standing at the front door. And I come home every day and this guy would be standing there.

16:24SpeakerOne day I said, what's up? What's going on? And he said, you getting high? And I said, not today, I didn't. And he said, going upstairs. So that's how I discovered Dennis. And I always appreciated that he did a lot of stuff. You know, he bought some property down along the river, cleaned it up, put new buildings on it. He helped a lot of people. And All the people that worked for him and with him, he was very good to the majority of them.

16:54Etienne FontanOh, he is very loved and appreciated by all those around him, and he's been doing, yeah, he was an organizer here in the Northern California area, but Dennis goes back to the 70s when he had the big top there in San Francisco. You guys think your friends have balls, but Dennis had some of the biggest balls of them all where he actually opened up, And basically you came in and you sat down on the floor and there was kilos laid out with samples and you could buy on the spot whatever as much as he had available to him.

17:28Etienne FontanSo he set that precedent until basically the San Francisco police kicked in his door and shot him twice.

17:39AtnIt wasn't just cannabis. He also had mushrooms, peyote buttons, and other friendly psychedelics.

17:49Etienne FontanCorrect, but mostly he was known for the cannabis because it was definitely... But yes, yes, I've heard of all the other situations that he was involved in for sure.

17:59SpeakerMostly known for the cannabis, but listen, that was the prime place to get a tab of real MDA. They always had it. There was no question about it. You go in, you see everybody was sitting on the floor with all the pot and everything. All you had to do, there was about three or four guys standing around that looked like they weren't buying anything. You approach one of them and ask them for the other stuff.

18:24SpeakerYeah, they always had superior, excellent material of all sorts.

18:30Etienne FontanDennis is responsible definitely for 215 and the reality is that his friends around him were all dying due to AIDS and this is really before we really knew about what was going on and in the darkest days they started providing cannabis out of necessity to challenge the government saying that my friends are dying, I'm not going to wait anymore. We're getting this to them today and they sparked literally a revolution that has gone completely around the world and there's very few people that I can say that I've touched and been around in my lifetime that have actually changed the world.

19:09Etienne FontanAnd a positive way. And Dennis is definitely up there as one of those who is his spark and his idea took hold everywhere around the world and is still spreading around the world. So his light and idea and belief that, you know, one person can actually change the world and a good idea along with good people can. So never forget that.

19:32SpeakerWhy was he opposed to 64? I know that we had a discussion about that on a previous Sash Church, but he was part of a recent opposition. Dennis was our proto-opposed to 19 as well.

19:43ToddYou know, he's never been a legalizer. You know, Dennis has been more like a conservative Republican in his views of legalization than he has, you know, a liberal.

19:54AtnAt the same time, Dennis was a serious smoker. I mean, the last time I saw him in light, he had come over, I think, for an IACM meeting, and, uh... We went out sitting out on the front lawn smoking my hash and very few people when they smoke my hash can just puff after puff after puff but zero problem for him.

20:20ToddNo, he's really a real head. I mean, Dennis totally smokes out. But, you know, I think that at this point, at this point too, Mark, I mean, there's a little bit of legacy involved. I hate to say that, you know, people wanted to see that his legacy continued and what happened with 215. And, you know, then there was a lot of people that felt like it was just a stepping point and we needed to move on to a broader legalization point.

20:43ToddAnd You know, he was of the camp that that wasn't a good idea and that we should keep it illegal and that it was fine the way it was, which I disagreed with wholeheartedly. But I'm glad that they, you know, pushed forward 215. I'm glad that, you know, George Soros helped fund it in 1996 and it passed. And I'm glad that we have had it for 20 years because look where we are now.

21:06ToddI mean, this I think the whole country took a turn after California passed medical cannabis in 96. So it was a very pivotal point in our politics.

21:17SpeakerSo one of these, you have to get through here to get to here. It was the bridge so that even though the math doesn't make sense, 215 plus 64 equals, well, whatever.

21:31ToddWell, you know, the initiative numbers aside, I mean, I think the people were willing to accept Compassion towards their kids and their neighbors and their family, but they weren't willing to accept, you know, their 22-year-old college student, you know, kid going out and buying weed and becoming a pothead on the weekends. But if the kid had cancer, what the hell were they to say? So medical was a huge stepping point.

21:55AtnIt was a toe in the door.

21:58Etienne FontanRight. Not only was it the toe in the door, it basically kicked in the entire door and cracked the glass ceiling because then you saw the doctors immediately challenge the DEA at a whole other level and emboldened a whole bunch of people at different levels to say, hey, if Dennis and them are going to do it, well, let's fucking take this thing and run it as far as we can.

22:20Etienne FontanAnd it opened it up to researchers. It opened it up to many different access of legislators. But we would not have 64 if it was not for 2-15. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to hem. I'm not going to haw. That's the reality. It was a huge stepping stone to people getting the discussion going. But you got to thank people like Michael Phelps and others along the way that kept cannabis in the media through Their actions or inactions to the point where we've seen this constant steam and building over the last 10 to 15 years that we now have over 28 states with multiple states right now in their legislatures like Texas that are looking at actually legalizing medical cannabis.

23:11Etienne FontanWhen they actually sit there and say that when the conservative states like Arkansas and North Dakota are legalizing medical marijuana, it's high time that states like Texas come along. I mean, that means we've completely changed the discussion where politicians have now embraced it. But the science and things that we were proving through the efficacy of medical cannabis caught up with the media and with time so that we have proven where it was earlier you know they just dismisses oh there's just donors just trying to get high so they're making up medical stuff whatever whatever but we saw the effects and over time science has backed us up and family members due to their contraction of diseases have made their families and their surrounding uh people aware of the situation and how medical canvases help them to where right now it's touched so many lives personally that It's impossible to put this toothpaste back into the tube, I think.

24:06SpeakerBut it's kind of odd. Here we go. We're celebrating the power of cannabis to heal cancer. And Dennis, who smoked like a smokestack every time I ever saw him, he had a joint in his mouth and was smoking. And he's dying from cancer. It's just kind of an odd note. A lot of the people we seem to be losing We seem to be losing to cancer of some sort.

24:32SpeakerI realize that it could be a long stem old cancer that had its grips in their kidneys before they started smoking pot. And I realize that there's some people who've survived cancer and they keep it at bay.

24:47ToddBut can I, as someone who's had cancer, one of the things that's always kind of annoyed me is people that generalize all cancers as the same. It's just a lack of understanding of the complexity of the disease. And, you know, I'm sorry, but cannabinoids don't work for all conditions. And that's just reality. And I mean, while they do, while it does work for some, and we're trying to learn which of those some there are, It's not a blanket, you know, panacea for cancer.

25:17SpeakerAbsolutely not. And I don't think the cancer is kind of a catch word, you know, and people often try to put it in In a little niche, but I think cancer is a condition and it can apply across all the different areas and cells and regions of the body. They can all go a little haywire like that.

25:37ToddCan I dare say though, you know, it's more than just smoking cannabis. I mean, how many people smoke cannabis, but, you know, have a very unhealthy lifestyle, don't really focus on nutrition, don't really care about what they eat. That's really, I think, where the problems lie. I mean, if you really want to try to beat cancer, you know, there's this new immunology treatment where they're trying to build up the immune system so the immune systems can biologically fight these diseases.

26:03ToddAnd that's something, you know, going back to hemp seed oil and proper nutrition, that's something that proper nutrition would help with considerably.

26:11SpeakerIt's absolutely proper nutrition. Look at all the cancer camps that are springing up where people go to them and they just jam them with raw drinks and raw fruits and juices all day long and they stay there for six or eight weeks and when they get out they go into remission.

26:29AtnThere is no magic blanket. Remember Adele Davis, what she died of?

26:36AtnShe was a big health nutritional for years and years and years. Then she died of cancer.

26:44SpeakerYeah. Well, maybe cancer's just wound in there and fortunately we get to look at it in the light of maybe pot is going to be of help.

26:56AtnI think a good diet would obviously lower your chances.

27:01ToddYou know, as absolutely, you know, I guess the reason I jumped onto the healthy eating bandwagon so quickly is because I had already sat in the hospital with chemotherapy, IV drips, and had to go through radiation, and I didn't like it. So I was looking for any door that could alleviate me of that potential suffering yet again. So I was cool with broccoli. No.

27:25SpeakerSo everybody knows you're only 24, but the cancer was the gray hair and stuff, right?

27:33ToddYou know, I mean, considering I didn't expect to ever get to grow up, I mean, that was all I wanted to do when I was a little kid. And, you know, being an adult sounded good. You know, anything beyond that was gravy. But, you know, I mean, I'm 46 now, and I've been eating healthy now since Jack Harry's book when I was only 23. So, you know, cannabis really opened me up to a more holistic view of life that I hope more people trip into.

27:58ToddI mean, It's really unbelievable. I mean, that cannabis can also get us high, but also feed us and give us a nutritionally balanced meal. It's just really pretty incredible when you think about it.

28:08SpeakerWell, you've been doing it for half now, 23 years, right? And so our bodies are just like plants. Everything that we do to plant shows up two weeks later. Well, everything you do to your body shows up two and ten years later. And so it's better to get started now eating healthy because it'll put time on the end of your life that is time that you'll be enjoying yourself.

28:33SpeakerYou know, it'll feel a lot better.

28:36ToddYeah, you know, hey, like I said, anything to not be back in the hospital was something I was completely open minded to. And I wish more people would not wait until they got sick or someone they loved got sick for them to, you know, kick in and start exercising, you know, or start taking care of themselves or feeding themselves better. You know, I really wish it didn't take a dire set of circumstances for people to wake up and appreciate life and how fragile it is.

29:05SpeakerThat's one of the lessons here, though, isn't it? It seems to be a never-ending, ever-repeating scenario. And I guess that's because the truth is each and every one of us comes alone in a body. There's not another person in there with us, and that's because our journey towards realization and understanding of self is a journey by oneself. I mean, you do have people who have two, three, four, five people seem to be in there, but they're not really.

29:33SpeakerThat's a defensive mode that the mind will get put into if enough stress is put on it. It'll divide up like that and become separate personalities.

29:42AtnIt's actually a shattered individual.

29:45ToddYou know, and don't you think cannabis kind of brings a balance in our mind, body, and spirit? It kind of focuses us and You know, I just, I don't, I can't, I wonder what the effect would be on, you know, if homeless people and stuff were given cannabis brownies instead of, you know, bottles of vodka and how that would affect the way they reflected on their life and what they were doing and, you know, because whereas alcohol tunes you out, I guess what I'm trying to say, it feels to me like cannabis tunes you in.

30:18ToddSo you don't have to be homeless, but boy, what a difference.

30:23SpeakerBob Marley said cannabis shows you to yourself, and I have a suspicion that he was on the right trail there. You know, alcohol has been a pariah, but there's a lot of money backing alcohol. You know, you can't... Do anything back at the big money and that's the problem. Only now we're getting the big money interested in cannabis and so maybe in the long run. But you know, a friend brought something up to me.

30:53SpeakerI was saying that I've been playing around with this new method of Taking a fresh plant, hacking it down, freezing it in the nitrogen, throwing the whole thing in the chamber, extracting it under those cryogenic conditions. And it produces some of the most amazing live resin that I've ever seen. It's the prettiest, lightest, nicest oil I've ever seen. And in addition, at the chamber in the same time, it's also got about a quart or so of hydrosol that is milky white, rich with terpenes in it.

31:27SpeakerAnd I think in the future, people are going to be looking to do it that way, but it's not going to work under 64, because under 64, there has to be a distributor, you have to buy it from them, they have to get it from somebody else, so you're not going to be able to...

31:41ToddBut not to sound weird, John, for a minute, you know what, do you think anything's going to be the way it was intended? And I don't mean it to say that sarcastically, but, you know, it was a foot in the door, like Sam said earlier, you know, the way that medical cannabis is now, Is nothing we could have ever imagined 20 years ago when we were talking about what was going to happen when we passed this initiative.

32:04ToddAnd now we've passed legalization and really what changes more than the law, in my opinion, is a mentality shift. Because now people no longer believe they're criminals. And that's fucking massive. You know, you want to quote Bob Marley, my favorite quote is, emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds. And it takes something like an initiative to tell people, you're not a criminal anymore.

32:28ToddYou are free. Go smoke your pot. You don't have to hide behind the dumpster. And now what happens is a whole culture shift changes. The way people pursue freedom is different because now they think they have it instead of trying to hide it. You know, I think it's a big change.

32:45AtnI like Posh when he said, legalize it and I will advertise it. I believe in commercial cannabis. I think it's a good thing.

32:55Etienne FontanAnd to quote the very wise and wonderful fabulous furry freak brothers, pot will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no pot.

33:06SpeakerIt was Fat Freddy who said that. And I would also like to, I would just like to remake, it wasn't Bob... Marcus Garvey, who wrote that statement, Emancipate Yourself from Mental Slavery, Bob often would take Hailey Selassie's inspirational speeches and then put them into his music. So he definitely said it, popularized it, but it was Marcus Garvey who wrote it.

33:35Etienne FontanWell, big ups to Marcus Garvey and Bong Hitt and his honor.

33:39ToddYeah, that always resonated with me because I felt there was a personal responsibility involved in our freedom, you know, because at what point does it snap in our minds and we not want to believe that we're criminals anymore?

33:51SpeakerWell, when the sheriff's banging on your door and saying, come with me, and by the way, we're cutting down all your plants, you know, right about then, I shot the sheriff.

34:02ToddYou know what, John? In a sense, technically, since we passed medical cannabis, they've raided me four times and prosecuted me four times, and I still believe they are wrong and that we're okay and we're right to grow flowers, and I won't believe it any other way. I honestly think flower prohibition is crazy, and I won't be convinced that it's... I don't know. I don't want to say real, but I won't be convinced that it's legit.

34:26SpeakerLook, I believe... There should be no prohibition on any plant or animal. It's ridiculous, the fact that they want to control this. I mean, this is a plant that has a panacea of good things, and it seems like More that the government runs upon things like this, they've got the patents and so forth and so on. The more they want to suppress us from having it, you've got to ask yourself why, what's going on up there?

34:56SpeakerWhat's the end game for these guys who are constantly getting in the way and trying to slam the door where our foot is at to make us back off?

35:10ToddYeah, that was the whole drug war. It didn't really work out so good for them.

35:14Etienne FontanYeah, the drugs kind of won.

35:16ToddYeah, the drugs won the drug war, man. We're just products of that, you know. You know, but look at that. And that's my opinion. You know, people talk about, oh, Nut 64 is going backwards. To me, that's fucking insane rhetoric because it's like we're not going backwards. There's nothing going backwards about this movement. And the real reason is is because the more people get tuned into the information, the more people are not convinced that the drug war was all that great of an idea.

35:42SpeakerI don't think there's anybody on either side at this point who thinks that the drug war was a great idea.

35:50ToddOh yeah, the people at correctional facilities that have stakes and interest in private prisons think it was a blistering great idea for them, but fortunately they're becoming part of the minority.

36:04SpeakerWell, them and the real people who really stick a lot of money into keeping it illegal are the prison food people. It is dismaying how much money they are funding to anti-marijuana campaigns. And you've got to think to yourself, the only reason some of those guys in jail can eat that food at all is because marijuana is smuggled in.

36:24Etienne FontanNot enough. Not enough marijuana. It's also the effect around the world. I mean, the prohibition in the U.S. is not only what they're doing here in the United States, but you've got to understand that every country receives money from the United States has to have a cannabis eradication program going on And it's country. So we're having people executed all around the world and put in jails and beaten and enslaved and disrupting families all over cannabis prohibition.

36:52Etienne FontanSo it's not just here in the United States. We've forced this prohibition around the world. And so that's one of the best things about the United States changing is that it will change things around the world. And you're seeing it. Thank you so much for joining us.

37:27Etienne FontanYou know, as you stated, the actual costs, Andrew, are exponential. And it's stupid, the number's stupid, just counting what we're spending here in the United States. But what we're spending around the world, I think, is much higher exponentially.

37:42SpeakerWell, here in the United States, which I'm going to rename right now, the United States of Double Messages. That's one of the problems that we have in the world. We keep advocating for things that we don't even really control here. It's not just that. If you take a good look, boy, it extends through the entire pharmacopoeia thing. Things that we ban here are things that here cost $500 that two countries away cost $10.

38:11SpeakerYou know, there's a whole regulatory scheme that is embedded with the good old boy syndrome like you couldn't believe going on.

38:22ToddIt's true, but there's a great article today about how Colorado guide on how to grow marijuana could be world's first by a government because then it starts off saying North Carolina wants to know if marijuana could one day replace tobacco as a cash crop. Louisiana is wondering how pot holes up in high humidity. And Washington State has questions about water suppliers for weed. And it says Colorado agricultural officials this week briefed officials about a dozen states.

38:47ToddAnd when you get into a situation where you have southern states like this looking at this as a crop and a commodity, this is a change in mentality that's massive. So we're going to see a normalization of cannabis rollover all over the place because it's not lucrally worth it. It's not lucrative to actually lock people up and police them like it is in comparison to taxing and regulating and letting them exist.

39:15Etienne FontanAnd the big thing is, is you have to realize Louisiana is the number one most incarcerating state in the United States, which sets the precedence for the United States, much less the world. So to now have them actually start looking at actual cannabis and, you know, medically, there's even discussions there was trying to pass in the legislature that were unsuccessful. But we also saw unsuccessful tries in North Dakota and various other states in this past week also vying for legalization as well.

39:46AtnI guess you didn't hear that in Louisiana they're going to have the chain gangs grow down county farms?

39:54Etienne FontanThey're parishes in Louisiana, they're not counties.

39:57AtnWell, I'm just joking anyway, so...

40:00ToddDon't we think, shouldn't cannabis be treated like any other commodity where you have, you know, gold, silver, corn, soybeans, wheat, should be hemp. It should be up there on the commodities exchange.

40:12Etienne FontanWell, hemp would be its own thing. And then, you know, the cannabis itself, because both are worth, you know, I think financially to an extent, the flowers will be worth more initially than, um, You know, the industrial product until the industrialization catches up to as easy it is to produce or get flowers out, it's going to be generations before proper millings and factories are on board here in the United States where I think it is financially competitive above the flowers.

40:43SpeakerHey, look. I completely agree with you. Prison grown pot could be a very good thing because most of the people that are in prison are there for growing pot. So we must have a lot of expertise languishing in jail right now.

40:57AtnOr have the prison guards grow it and that way when they don't have a job doing anything else because marijuana is legal, they'll have a job.

41:08ToddI, as a former prisoner, I'm really against prison labor. I refuse to work at Unicor. I actually really take, I think it's modern day slavery, especially considering they're putting out consumer products that really hurt the competition of local providers and people that aren't in prison who aren't making pennies an hour to make, you know, lingerie and other bullshit. So really against the prison labor concept.

41:34Etienne FontanWell, not only that, it's been propping up this false economy we have here in the United States exponentially because we have things like Old Navy and Victoria's Secret that are cheap American labor. And so you can go spend, you know, 99 cents or a dollar on those panties and not realize that Uh... as actually prisoners making that because that's the only affordable way some of these companies can actually manufacture in the United States.

42:01Etienne FontanSo if you actually Google and look up the amount of companies that you actually support every day that you are financially supporting that actually do prison labor every single day across the United States, it's a good thing to make yourself aware of and make your friends aware of. Just do a Google search, people, for prison labor. United States Products.

42:23AtnI understand how Todd's against it, and I don't think anybody should be forced. But there are a lot of people in prison who would rather do it than just sit on their butt and do nothing.

42:36SpeakerYeah, that's one argument.

42:37ToddOh, I want to say, it definitely keeps people busy. I had, you know, letters to write and books to read, so I really didn't want to get distracted from my own, you know, educational time that I used it for. But, yeah, and they don't have money coming in, and there are things...

42:53AtnI know, Todd, that if you would have been making license plates, you would have done it better than anybody else.

43:00ToddNo, I don't even think I would have, honestly. But I just think that... It's hard for me to stomach the fact that private companies are using people that are otherwise tied to these systems, and it's just, to me, really fucked up.

43:17SpeakerHey, I saw a YouTube video a couple weeks ago where an American guy was talking to a Korean guy. And the Korean guy said, oh, you have slave in America, huh? And the American guy said, no, what are you talking about? And he said, you have people in prison, work. And he says, oh, yeah, but they're there, but they get paid. And the Korean guy said, how much you pay?

43:40SpeakerAnd he said, 20, 25 cents an hour. And he said, see, I told you, you have slave in America.

43:46ToddYeah, you don't even make that much, $0.25 an hour. They were making like $0.14, $0.12, $0.15. And of course, pay schedule is horrible.

43:52Etienne FontanAnd they tax it and everything else. Yeah, that's the reality.

43:56ToddNo, I don't think they do get taxed, but.

44:00Etienne FontanReally? They don't? In the military? I'm not going to shit you. Not only do they pay you shitting, then they tax you on top of it. They tax you that too.

44:08AtnIf you're in jail, you want to make a few bucks so you can get some freaking postage stamps, toothpaste, and zoos and wham whams.

44:18SpeakerYeah. Hey, they don't tax your money in a combat zone. You know, when you're in a combat zone or stationed in a combat zone, you don't pay any income tax on your...

44:28Etienne FontanThey changed that. They took taxes off.

44:30SpeakerWhen did that start happening?

44:32Etienne FontanI don't know, but when I was in my war, they taxed it and you still get... It was $110 a month bonus for combat pay for being on the front lines. $110. Then they taxed it.

44:45SpeakerWell, that's how old it is because when I was in Vietnam, combat pay was $55. And...

44:52SpeakerYeah, but they didn't take any tax from our money when we were in Vietnam. They didn't look through our packages when we sent them back. We were customs free. And that's the only way I've made any money from Vietnam, sending tie sticks back in San Diego refrigerators to my mom who stored them in a garage. So when I got back, I both had a job, something to do and stash because I started smoking in Vietnam and I had no idea How I was going to perpetuate that habit when I came back to the States and got out of the Army.

45:24SpeakerI just knew that I needed to make some plans for it just in case.

45:30Etienne FontanYeah, well, they were definitely going through mail either way. So that was the reality because we had people had to, when they would try to send liquor to themselves, they had to like switch it to taking Listerine bottles and pouring their whiskey into the Listerine bottles and sending it as a Listerine bottle because they just looked at a Listerine bottle. They didn't actually test what was inside of it.

45:51Etienne FontanBut if you try to send like straight liquor or something like that, yeah.

45:55ToddAs we talk about jails though, I'm hoping that this turnaround in the way that we're not arresting people for pot is going to gut the justice system because when you looked at the arrest rates around the drug war, a majority of the arrests were happening around marijuana and the rest of the drugs were a minority. So if you take that away... It changes the scope of this.

46:18Etienne FontanBut what's the number one thing on all these police wish lists right now? It's the new breathalyzer for cannabis. They're trying to find a way to criminalize or to find ways of impairment. And that's what you also saw various courts in Oregon And Washington tossed convictions recently of DUIs, tossed them out because the courts realized that there's really no proof of impairment test currently out there. So they've been funneling researchers to try and create a type of breathalyzer that proves you've ingested cannabis within a certain amount of time that is both a saliva test as well as an oral test.

46:59Etienne FontanNow, it's not a breathalyzer there. It shows that, you know, just to go to Todd's discussion, is that it shows that they are trying to find ways to still criminalize it at the same way. You have to realize that there was no impairment test before 1986 for alcohol. Back in the day, if you listen to old Bill Hicks, it used to be, oh, sorry, so you're all drunk?

47:21Etienne FontanWell, you sleep it off a bit and then go on home. You know, it wasn't until 86 that they created an actual impairment test that stood its own test of time and quality. So they're trying to create that currently for cannabis so that they can prove impairment so that they can further criminalize people for cannabis ingestion.

47:39SpeakerThe problem they're having is that the impairment tests are... All of these people, across the board, showing up that people are not impaired while they're driving stoned, and in fact, many of them drive much safer. I know one thing, when I'm high, I am not flying down the road. I'm, you know, I got a tape on in the car.

48:00AtnThat's not absolutely true, John. A naive person who's never smoked cannabis before got totally blasted and drove. He'd be just as dangerous as somebody who was drunk.

48:16ToddAnd dare I say, somebody who ate an edible. And edibles, to me, in driving are not a very good combination at all, and I don't recommend it, and I always have warned my friends to watch out, because it's really a negative place to put yourself.

48:30AtnBut that said, I do agree that one person could have whatever THC his blood level is, and the next, who's a naive person, would be completely messed up. And people like Todd and most of the panelists here, Could have, you know, 10 times as high of levels and probably drive absolutely fine.

48:50ToddYeah, look at the guys that do X Games. They're doing backflips on dirt bikes and they're stoned. You know, I mean, it's not really impeding their ability to handle the machine precisely.

49:01Etienne FontanNo, it's not. No, but it's still novice users or those that have not used cannabis are the, again, and I saw a recent discussion regarding this issue. Thank you for joining us.

49:31Etienne FontanAnd so that is more of the issue because it has caused accidents and it has caused issues that will come to light in time. But at the same time, we are aware of it. We've seen it. I've given dabs to people and had them pass out right in front of me. I mean, I've seen effects on people that have no tolerance to cannabis. That has to be addressed.

49:55Etienne FontanThat's something that we as a, not only industry, but we as, you know, cannabis consumers have to confront head on. We can't deny it anymore. That is a reality, is a fact, because we now have large swathes of the populace going out there and trying cannabis. Look, you had a predominant journalist go to Colorado and she ate an edible and got so wasted that she wrote on how negative her experience was.

50:18SpeakerWait a second. She's a loser, dude.

50:21Etienne FontanNo, but I understand. It still proves a great point, though. She was a novice user who thought she could handle what was in that edible, but she brought out a great point. Even though I did not agree with what she said, she still brought up a great point. She did not have the tolerance, and there was not... Now, I've been told from the bud tender that sold her the actual edible that she ate that she told her not to eat the entire thing that she did, but she still did anyway.

50:52SpeakerIs she going to write an article when she has a hangover from drinking a bottle of tequila? I mean, it's such a stupid thing you can write about. Regardless, it still points out a valid point that we have to deal with. We have to confront. How dumb of the New York Times to give such a stupid article about... Thank you for watching.

51:20SpeakerThank you for watching.

51:42SpeakerTo all of us, including those of us who have had enough THC in their system to probably knock out small animals. I've had a pilot's license for 35 years, and I can tell you I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours flying in a private plane, high as a kite.

52:03AtnI've had enough THC in my life to float a small ship.

52:08SpeakerYeah, me too. Maybe even a couple of extra boats and an inner tube.

52:13Etienne FontanBut going back to Dr. Scaldone there, I agree. It was definitely irresponsible of the New York Times, and it was not a very good article. However, it still brought up a very valid point. She was a novice user, still overused cannabis, and it led to a negative experience. Had she been driving or attempting to drive, It could have been a very bad situation. So this is something that we have to address.

52:37Etienne FontanWe have to confront. We can't hide behind it. I don't agree with the way in how she wrote it. But at the same time, like I said, after the fact, I found out from a bud tender that she told her not to go there. But that was the reality that transpired.

52:51AtnIf she would have written an article about eating a small amount of that, it would have been a boring article to most of her viewers and her. So she purposely overdosed herself so she'd have something sexy to talk about.

53:05Etienne FontanThat I don't deny because as we know, you know, sometimes selling the negative to get the response from people is much more entertaining to them because it gets more clicks. And that's in the age of social media, it's all about the clicks.

53:22SpeakerFinancially benefits from more clicks, period. That's it. If you look at her other stuff, she's a drama queen. Every thing she ever wrote is drama loaded. She sucks. In the world of journalism, if you're wasting your waking hours reading her stuff, you're completely misguided.

53:48SpeakerAfter hearing about it and reading the article, I thought, well, is this a one-time insanity or is this bitch crazy from the get-go? So I looked at a few other things and, you know, she is definitely... John, I have to confess, I did the exact same thing. I did not know who she was from a hole in the ground until she wrote the article. And then I read like about three or four of her other things.

54:15SpeakerAnd now my whole feeling about the New York Times is just a bunch of hooey, just a bunch of bullshit, clickbait, yeah. Yeah, clickbait.

54:25AtnAnd Todd, did you start a second hash church this morning?

54:34Etienne FontanHe attempted to because we had the initial link up. It switched out. I think he stepped away from the screen for a minute.

54:41AtnNo problem. Now, I presume that is what he did because I saw him on two different computers.

54:51Etienne FontanHe may have.

54:55SpeakerI saw people posted that in the early Hash Church window, but I didn't look for it.

55:01AtnI thought he finally took my advice and decided to take Hash Church over.

55:09Etienne FontanTodd Church.

55:15SpeakerWell, what I read into your Facebook post this morning, Sam, is that you were having a Feelings that there wasn't going to be a hash church today.

55:23AtnWell, I've never seen it when Marcus hadn't posted. I mean, he didn't post until about an hour before it actually started.

55:34ToddNo, I know what happened, actually. I set up and left the page at the place where you have to create an event. Because when we talked, he wanted me to create an event, so I did. And I tried to get everything all set, and then I crashed. And then when I woke up, I created the event, and I started doing it, and then I get a message from him going, I already created an event, and I was like, oh, fuck me.

55:58ToddSo I went backwards and deleted the one I started, and then we tried to start up the one he created, and that didn't fucking work. So then he created yet this one, and here we are. So we were trying to make it smooth, but we were too enthusiastic, and we both did the same thing in order to get it started early, so. Great mind. Yeah, think alike.

56:21ToddOr wallow in the gutters.

56:23AtnBoth in stereo.

56:26ToddYeah, it was amusing. But, well, you know, we're just trying to, you know, give him a beast because when he runs into bad internet, I just, you know, I always feel bad seeing him have a frustrated time in it. And so I was just trying to facilitate and make it a little easier. But next time we'll coordinate it better on who's going to start the damn event and how it's going to go and we'll be cool with it.

56:48AtnI think Marcus is pretending that he has a bad connection. What he's really doing is sitting down at the beach, you know, having lime in his coconut and jerk chicken.

56:59ToddWell, I guess Mark isn't eating jerk chicken, but... You know, I try to convince him to just cut it out like a satellite connection or something, but he just won't do it, you know, so...

57:11SpeakerHow did he know that the chicken was a jerk?

57:17AtnWell, it was a rooster and it kept cock-a-doodle-dooing.

57:21SpeakerI see.

57:22Etienne FontanWell, he's in Jamaica, so.

57:24ToddBut he crossed the road, right? Well, it's nice to see Jamaica coming a long way, too. You know, I think that the American laws have been so destructive all over the planet, and we are responsible for all these bad cannabis laws all over the planet in the 20th century. And Jamaica suffered from them really harshly. And I think it's really great that things are turning around down there.

57:48AtnIf you think about it, Todd, they're actually maybe the most world-advanced view on religious use of cannabis by the Rastas.

57:58Etienne FontanWell, not only that, they're actually taking, like Israel has kind of quietly been doing its situation over in Africa, I mean in that region, whereas here in, you know, in our hemisphere, you know, things have been treadling along very slowly and it seems that Jamaica has something that is very forward for its people and that it will help, you know, all across the board financially and not only that, it will raise tourism and raise Thank you so much for joining us.

58:57SpeakerThe Buddhist-Farian Church. And I'm going to combine Buddhism and Rastafarianism together. And I think it'll be a powerful force there.

59:06ToddWell, personally, couldn't it be a great export for them? Couldn't it make Jamaica actual money? Couldn't, you know, like, hey, I would buy Jamaican cannabis from Amazon.com if I could get authentic Jamaican cannabis. You know, just like I get, you know, coffee and other stuff. Why not? I would totally support the Farmers of Jamaica if I had the opportunity to do so. I'm sure a lot of people listening would too.

59:32SpeakerHave you seen that new site, Gram Up? I don't know if you've seen it, but they got an incredible menu of everything you could think about in the way of pot, concentrates, edibles, and so forth. And you can call them up, order what you want, and they'll deliver it in 24 hours anywhere in California. How's that for kicking the ass?

59:56AtnDoes that include National Parkland where it's a felony under federal law?

1:00:02SpeakerWell, if you live on a national park land, you're probably already breaking the law.

1:00:06AtnWell, what happens if I'm in the parking lot and I ask them to do it?

1:00:10SpeakerNo, you have to have an address and you have to have a 215 on file and a card on file with them. I mean, they do have a few rules that they're adhering to right now. But in any case, just go on Gram Up and look on their site, man.

1:00:25AtnI don't think they deliver to the Netherlands.

1:00:31SpeakerNo, but you can have them deliver some here and I'll save it for you as best I can.

1:00:37AtnIn fact, you'd even help me out by telling me how good it is.

1:00:44SpeakerI'd have to test every one of them so that you'd know what to buy again.

1:00:49Etienne FontanGot a bioassay, you know.

1:00:52SpeakerYeah.

1:00:54ToddI think Caribbean cannabis would be very popular.

1:00:58SpeakerOh yeah, Caribbean red.

1:01:00Etienne FontanWell, I've heard nothing but, I mean, legends of what, you know, Jamaican was. I've never actually tried true Jamaican, but, you know, those have, I've heard mixed reviews from people from, but I know that a lot of the genetics aren't growing there, aren't true Jamaican genetics. Anyways, most of it come from around the world, if I'm, am I correct, Bubble Man, or are you saying true Jamaican genetics?

1:01:22AtnThank you for joining us.

1:01:44AtnI don't think so, but, you know, I only had it a few times, and I never had massive amounts of it, because we were getting Thai steaks and Colombian gold at the same time.

1:01:56Etienne FontanI've had lamb's breath, but I've not had, you know, anything else that I've heard that is around the type of Jamaican genetic besides that.

1:02:05SpeakerColombian gold was on a level with really good Jamaican pot back in the 70s. You could get Columbian Gold that was, it almost looked like it had been each bud pressed, little round saucers, and it was golden to red, and you could stick it on a glass pane and it would stick there. And the excellent flavor stuff, I mean, beyond excellent.

1:02:30AtnThat used to be our test in Thailand. If you threw a stick to the wall, would it stick?

1:02:38ToddYou guys are killing me.

1:02:39AtnWe call that the Italian test.

1:02:43ToddOh, pasta. I don't believe it, actually.

1:02:48SpeakerItalians throw a baby against the wall, and if it sticks, it's theirs?

1:02:55ToddYou guys are killing me. Tie stick, man. Well, I hope they tie some stuff to a stick and start sending it all over the world because I would love to get stuff from Thailand too. We're daydreaming about countries that we could import cannabis from. Thailand is definitely up on my list.

1:03:11Etienne FontanSo here's a discussion coming over here from the chat here. So I've always heard it's been called lamb's breath ending in TH. I've also heard the term lamb's bread, but I've always heard that it was lamb's breath from a cold frosty morning, the exhale of a lamb.

1:03:28AtnI always heard lamb's bread.

1:03:31Etienne FontanBread with an ending in a D. That's what it looked like.

1:03:33AtnIt looked like lamb's bread, meaning the intestines of lambs.

1:03:39SpeakerYeah. The really good lamb's bread looks like Rastafarian lox from above. I mean, we used to get it and go through it, and it was two, three foot long pieces, and almost like it was strung together or something, but it was like dreadlocks, but amazing stuff.

1:03:58AtnThey also really good pop they would call Kaliweed.

1:04:03SpeakerRight, I remember that.

1:04:06Etienne FontanYeah, many of the songs Kaliweed.

1:04:09SpeakerThere wasn't all these.

1:04:11ToddHow the fuck do we legalize it all over the world? Because this is really making me sit here wishing I could order seats from all these places.

1:04:17AtnFirst, what we need to do is get interstate transport in America. Oh, I don't even care about Indiana right now.

1:04:25ToddI want Jamaica. Can't we skip over that and just go right to Jamaica?

1:04:29AtnNo, it's not going to work that way. I don't want no. If you can't get interstate, you can't get intercontinental. Think about it.

1:04:38ToddWell, Canada's cool. California's cool. Wait a minute. Can't we skip the American part?

1:04:44SpeakerYou can export from a state to a foreign country. And you can import. From a foreign country.

1:04:52AtnNot for recreational purposes. That's not true.

1:04:57SpeakerI'm not talking about pot. I'm just talking about the ability to import and export. Hey, I'm importing a whole bunch of material from Switzerland for my machine. And it's not a problem at all getting these things imported. I'm not talking about pot, though. I'm just talking about generally. No, you said.

1:05:16AtnAnd I'm talking about pot.

1:05:19SpeakerOkay. Okay. I just want to be able to get seeds from everywhere.

1:05:24ToddLegalize weed, man. That's all I'm saying. It would be funny if we could all stand at supermarkets all over the world at the same time with initiatives. Just one time initiative, the whole thing, it'd be over. It'd be hilarious.

1:05:40SpeakerYeah, I keep hearing all these arguments about if there was no regulation, everything would be better and pot would be stronger and better. And then... Other group of people that say we've got to have regulation or we're going to end up with a bunch of crap.

1:05:56ToddCan I point something funny out? I don't think they're going to have regulation because practical application of it is going to be a lot more difficult. In reality, look at California. California has on average between 12 and 13 million residences, meaning homes. Uh, or places people live. You multiply that times six, you've got over 70 million legal cannabis plants potentially growing this year in California without recs.

1:06:24SpeakerWithout recreational. But what that also does is it creates a new consumer demographic. And so if you look at the industries like alcohol, And tobacco, which actually fund against, you know, cannabis becoming legal. Now, this entire demographic of legal users can now use the power. Wouldn't it be great if all cannabis users said, you know what, we're going to boycott cigarettes, we're going to boycott tobacco, we're going to boycott alcohol until they change the fucking laws.

1:06:59SpeakerIt becomes a large enough demographic that they could actually Impact those businesses financially in a business.

1:07:06ToddTo be truthful, I'm out for a long time because I've been fighting the drug war and I always looked at who was fighting funding our opposition to freedom. And I always, you know, I've never smoked cigarettes and I've never really drank. And it's not that I don't think people should have a right to, but fuck them companies. They're locking us up. And that's always, people should be more aware as consumers because we vote with our dollar very powerfully.

1:07:30SpeakerAll between. Yeah, let's make tobacco illegal. God damn it. Tobacco is a pariah on the land. And we shouldn't be allowing it. I mean, look at. How about this?

1:07:41ToddWe don't, not that we outlaw it, but we subsidize, we subsidize poison. We should subsidize cannabis because cannabis is the opposite of poison. And it helps people. I mean, this is where I come from at it. I mean, tobacco is a highly subsidized crop under United States law because it was part of the development of this country. And I get it. We were a drug producing nation.

1:08:03ToddThat's what made us great. We grew tobacco. We sold tobacco. We as a nation made money.

1:08:10SpeakerThat's reality. When I first saw tobacco, it was 20 cents for a pack of cigarettes. And I don't know, what is a pack of cigarettes now, $6 or $7 or something outrageous like that? One of my kids insists on smoking, and he wanted to buy a carton of cigarettes, and it was like $75 or $80. And I looked him right in the eye, and I said, hey, I'll buy you an ounce of good pot instead.

1:08:38SpeakerBut for some reason, the tobacco, you know, they never grew up seeing me consume it because I never smoked a cigarette in my life. You know, I watched my brother Bob steal my dad's cigarettes, smoke one, get projectile vomit, and then he offered it to me. And I'm like, you know, no thanks. I learned by watching. And so I never got into it.

1:08:58ToddYou know, I think that, you know, it's where my little sister picked up smoking tobacco. My both of my parents smoked around me and I never picked it up. But I started growing cannabis when I was an early teenager and You know, I wish everybody could have the experience of growing their own cannabis because when it's that readily available to you and, you know, it tastes that good, smells that good.

1:09:21ToddI don't know if people would smoke tobacco comparatively if they had, you know, copious quantities of cannabis flowers just given to them by nature every day.

1:09:29SpeakerWell, don't you find even people in the industry who do cultivate and are around cannabis a lot, I still find a lot of cigarette smokers. And again, it just seems almost kind of like You know, senseless, like how can you be supporting this industry with your habit when your industry is part of the reason why it's still being held down?

1:09:49ToddWell, can I say honestly, it's a very addictive drug and a lot of people tune into it when they're a lot younger and they get addicted to it at a younger age and it's hard to put down. I mean, I've been, unfortunately, in, you know, segregated housing units, which is called the hole, with fucking people coming off of heroin and puking, and they were a lot cooler than the people fucking coming off of nicotine and standing at the door yelling at the COs, asking for a fucking cigarette, if not begging.

1:10:14ToddAnd, you know, tobacco is an ugly drug. And I don't know how else to put it.

1:10:21AtnThe high you get from cannabis is a learned high. It's not like alcohol, which you drink enough alcohol punches you in the face and you know you're drunk. A lot of people who smoke cannabis the first time don't even get high or they don't recognize the high until other people say, no, you're high as a kite, you just don't know it. But the end effect of it is when you've learned your first experiences with cannabis, with tobacco, you depend on those cues to recognize that you're high.

1:10:53AtnI've had people come to my house, get totally blasted on just my pure dry sift and tell me, no, it's not very strong. I didn't really get high. Then they would go out on the balcony and smoke a cigarette. They'd come back in the room and go, I'm so wasted.

1:11:11Etienne FontanWell, I have smoked. I was a cigarette smoker from the age of 16 till 27. And I quit cigarettes. And to address you, Dr. Skeldown, it was one of the hardest things I ever did was quitting cigarettes. Nicotine is a bitch of a drug. And to get off of it is very hard. And I'm thankful I did at the age of 27. But...

1:11:34Etienne FontanIt was also amazing sitting there on the front lines during my war and watch a whole bunch of people who were not smokers then end up being cigarette smokers. And they ended up quitting when they came home, but the stress and everything that happens that comes with it is very helpful when you do not have cannabis. So I understand, and I don't want to demonize every tobacconist, but people need to realize what tobacco has done To our industry and as challenge, I didn't quit it because of cannabis.

1:12:08Etienne FontanI quit it because I wanted to feel better and I didn't want that feeling anymore. And I was able to find cannabis that was high grade and good. So I was able to supplement that oral fixation or whatever it was I was compensating for for tobacco. And it definitely helped me wean off of tobacco so that I was tobacco free finally and have been for 20 years now.

1:12:31ToddYou know, all this talking makes me want to smoke.

1:12:34AtnIn Europe, most people who smoked cannabis smoked it with tobacco.

1:12:40SpeakerATN, you're looking for a titty, face it.

1:12:43ToddBut can I ask, though, isn't that a carryover from them mixing hashish with their tobacco? Because you didn't just smoke hashish in a joint. Well, some of us have had hash joints. But, no, you know, you put the hash in the tobacco and you smoke it. When they started using cannabis... It was kind of similar. We used it the same way we used cash, right?

1:13:03AtnYeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all. There was very little cannabis community in mainland Europe between, you know, 80s and 90s.

1:13:16ToddBut there's a long-standing hashish community.

1:13:19AtnOh yeah, exactly, with tobacco, exactly like this.

1:13:22ToddWith tobacco, right. I mean, you know, it's a lot of people, I think, don't really understand how pivotal tobacco, you know, I think we all do, but how pivotal tobacco was to the fact that they found this plant, this addictive, desirable plant in this new country. If they had come here and not found tobacco, I don't know, we would have a very different history, to say the least.

1:13:44ToddOh yeah, they would have gone.

1:13:45SpeakerThey would have gone back to Europe, right? No.

1:13:48AtnDid you know in the Americas... Two very different things, tobacco and cigarettes. In the Americas, more slaves were imported for working on tobacco and hemp than for cotton.

1:14:04SpeakerHemp, I'm glad you said that because there was more slaves in the hemp business during that time than tobacco and cotton mixed.

1:14:12AtnWell, I've studied just about every historical aspect of him.

1:14:18ToddYou know what, Ben, Sam, one of the things that I think, you know, I had a conversation with a news reporter named Dan Rauter, and it was funny because what I started the conversation with asking him was, are you a history buff? And he said, yes. And of course, my friend chimed in and said, it's a trick question. And he said, how can it be a trick question?

1:14:37ToddAnd I started off, said, okay, two plants, you know, what are the two plants that, One we found that we didn't know existed everywhere, which was tobacco, and the other one we couldn't find but existed all over Europe and, in my opinion, was responsible for the social evolution of humanity and the cultural evolution of humanity. And he said, well, that's really deep. How could that be possible?

1:14:58ToddAnd when you start thinking about all the ways that they used hemp and cannabis industrially, the paints, the varnish, the clothing, the paper, the maps, the Bibles, The sales and the ropes, they wouldn't have made it to this country had they not had these very fundamental tools like ropes and sales, which didn't come from cotton, you know, it only came from cannabis. So I don't know how America would have been if they didn't have the drug plant to harvest and sell back to Europe and back to the places they were coming from.

1:15:36AtnA lot of people...

1:15:38SpeakerIt took Ali to remind us about that when he invented the move called rope-a-dope.

1:15:46AtnMost people thought that cotton was responsible for the importation of most of the slaves, but it's not true. The cotton gin wasn't invented until when slavery was, you know, winding.

1:15:58ToddUntil 1791, the patent for the cotton gin, and we first got slavery in 1619. And we got a sister law that Jack Terry used to always point it out, that was you had to grow hemp on 10% of your land because the problem that the colonialists were having is that they would grow this tobacco and sell it to the ships coming in, but then they would immediately have to take that money and buy back the hemp and the commerce that they brought because they were not cultivating the hemp in the new colonies yet.

1:16:30ToddSo the incentive was, and they were making them do it. I mean, the fundamental role cannabis had in the evolution of this country is huge. I mean, because of the fact that we didn't get cotton until almost 1800. But so for the first couple hundred years we were here, we still needed ropes, we still needed covered wagons, we still needed all the stuff that cannabis provided. So all of that hemp growing across the country is just remnants from people, the Europeans going west, I mean, you couldn't have a covered wagon made of cannabis unless you had a cannabis field and cannabis fiber.

1:17:09SpeakerYeah, all the cannabis was that. But I think it was Cheech and Chong, or Cheech, who said that, I wonder if you smoke cotton, do you get marijuana mouth?

1:17:22ToddThat's actually quite funny. Hey, Mark, could you answer that? If you smoke cotton, do you get marijuana, Mark?

1:17:27SpeakerDon't smoke cotton, man. Oh, my God. Don't smoke cotton. Please don't smoke cotton. Don't do that. Not a good idea. You mean which part of the plant should we avoid? Well, maybe if they're soaked with John's Hydrosol, at least it'll taste good as you choke to death.

1:17:48AtnChoke to death? Lots of kids used to try. You could put it in a bomb, you know.

1:17:53SpeakerHey, Mark. Tell them what the hell that green, blue-green, neon-colored stuff is. I mean, I showed it to Kenny, and Kenny was like, you know, he seemed to be able to identify it immediately. Oh, really? How did he do that? He took one look at it. I mean, he'd seen it before. How did he do that? Okay, but, I mean, he identified, what, a compound, a single compound in there?

1:18:21SpeakerHe'd seen the green compound. Blue-green terpenes before. And when you shine an ultraviolet light on it, they glow in the dark. And anyway, he thought, and by the description, I mean, if you smell them, they smell like the best hash you've ever smelled in your life, for one. For two, a tiny amount on top of a dab of any other oil. And you get this Buddha-like experience.

1:18:48SpeakerThe whole world just goes away for a few minutes. Sound stops and you hear your own inner sounds. So to me, I thought because of how I collected it and I collected it off of oil, Over oil. And the oil, of course, had no green in it. And I looked, and the color for these particular terpenes is sort of an antifreeze green-yellow glowing. What terpenes are you talking about?

1:19:16SpeakerWhat color terpenes? The ones on the picture that I sent you, and the one that's on my thing now there. Right. Okay. But you're not seeing it right there, because if you see it in life... It's blue-green, and it looks very neon. You know, so it's not, that picture's not true to what it is. So it might be azulene, right? Hey, you know, I'm going to include a small vial of it in with your other material that I'm sending you.

1:19:48AtnIs it a suite of terpenes, or just one terpene?

1:19:52SpeakerDo you know? I'm sure it's a suite of them. Yeah, it's a mixture. Thank you for joining us.

1:20:07SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:20:36SpeakerI've never measured Azulene before. I don't remember seeing Azulene in any terpene profiles. And Azulene typically is like blue to like almost like a purple color. That looks green. That doesn't, yeah. So what makes you think that there's no plant pigment in there? That it could just be plant pigment making it green? There was no plant pigment in the oil. The oil was pure, you know. Oh, okay.

1:21:01SpeakerWait. So let me understand. You extracted this from separated heads? No, I extracted it. Well, I'm not going to go into how I extracted it, but I extracted it from oil, directly off of oil, and I extracted it in and through a cold finger, and I got a good yield from it. So that was what was in the cold finger? Yep. Ah. Okay, so it's volatile. That tells us that.

1:21:31SpeakerSo something that's volatile that's coming out of this extraction of oil. Now, when you say you're extracting oil, so this was oil that was previously extracted from a plant material? Yeah, about an hour before. So you re-extracted it? Well, no, and yes. Sorry, I'm not trying to be mysterious, but I extracted the oil and then I put it in a certain place where I could collect all of the overhead from it through a cold finger under certain conditions.

1:22:08SpeakerAnd it's been very, very reliable. It's reproducing the same thing again and again as I do it over and over. Okay. And as I said, the... It's such a very peaceful, nice stone along with it that it's just a very enjoyable thing. I can't believe that it's not terpenes. Yeah, I mean, Marcus made this point a couple weeks ago, I think, when we were talking about colors and extracts and concentrates.

1:22:40SpeakerAnd I think Marcus's comment was, what, green? That's not from chlorophyll? So yeah, I think maybe it's a combination of different terpenes. Maybe there's a yellow and a blue, and the blue could be Ajalene. We know Ajalene almost has like a sky blue kind of look to it. I'm not exactly sure what it boils at, but maybe that's what it is. And it's mixed with another terpene that either has turned yellow on standing and yellow plus blue is equal to green.

1:23:15SpeakerI don't know. Well, I think your description is typifying what I see. When I look at it in real time, right in front of my eyes here, it definitely, as you turn it and look at it, it has blue and on the edges, yellow. Our yellow green are where it mixes. There's a mixed border to it. John, what you could do is do you have a TLC plate?

1:23:43SpeakerBecause if you had a TLC plate, you could spot the TLC plate and see if the green color goes with the solvent front. And see if it's extremely non-polar or see if it's a polar material. That way you can eliminate it from being something like a plant-based pigment somehow. I know that it can't be... A pigment like chlorophyll because you can't get, you can't volatilize it, but if you want to separate it from something like chlorophyll, which is an ionic pigment versus something that's actually green because of its way that it interacts with ultraviolet light, then run a quick TLC on that and see what it looks like.

1:24:26SpeakerWell, I'm going to do the best anyway.

1:24:33SpeakerI took it, I mixed a little of the Emerald Cup winner oil with one drop of this green material and it really changed the character of it. And made it so strong that one took and you would let it out and at the end of the breath out you found yourself going, You know, trying to get everything out of your lung, and then you would have a very intense body rush from it.

1:25:11SpeakerSo either it's a poison and I'm killing myself, which, hey, I've been at that for years, hasn't worked yet, or I think it's an excellent terpene fraction, which deserves to be looked at.

1:25:23AtnMake sure you analyze it so you can tell us what percentage of what terpenes. That would be interesting.

1:25:30SpeakerI will. I'm going to definitely analyze it. Actually, you can send some to Mark, and he's going to put it through. I don't know about NMR being any good for the terpenes, but he's got the other test there. No, I think the gas chromatographic method.

1:25:45AtnYeah, the FID that you're talking about. Yep. NAPRO.

1:25:50SpeakerYep.

1:25:51AtnNo, that is the best test, and that's the same test we were using 25 years ago in my lab.

1:25:57SpeakerYeah, I just looked at, I scanned their paper quickly to see if they saw Azulene, and I didn't see it, but I'll have to go back and look again in detail.

1:26:08SpeakerIt's totally possible. I mean, it's got to be something, right? Well, it's going to be, it can only be a small, a few things because it's in an enclosed chamber and we're pulling the overhead off of that through the cold finger. So what else could it even be? Well, you've got to remember a lot of these phenolic compounds like the flavonoids and the sterols are highly colored and a little bit of compound goes a long way, meaning that their chromophore is extremely...

1:26:42SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:27:06SpeakerI'm not sure, again, the notion that it could be a green that's made from the mixing of a blue and a yellow seems kind of, I'm skeptical of that.

1:27:21AtnIt has a very Andy Freeze look to it.

1:27:27SpeakerAnd I know I took a tiny micro drop of it and dropped it in 10 ml of water. And the water turned milky. And so I know that's not much of a test, but... Okay, see what it does to do the same thing, but do it like with olive oil or canola oil. See if it colors the oil. See if it's fat soluble and see if that color is now imparted into the oil phase.

1:27:55SpeakerOr mineral oil would be the best. So if you had mineral oil, which was absolutely clear, which is made from petrochemicals, just see if it colors the mineral oil green. Small drop of it. I will. But I got a little vial that I'm going to send you, and then you can give the feedback after you figure out exactly what it is. Hey, John, you could coin a new expression, right?

1:28:23SpeakerInstead of getting high, you can get green. Everyone in the industry goes green. Researcher discovers green terpenes. Though it could be that I'm not going to be the first one because as I said, I've found research showing that this antifreeze sort of color is common and it probably has a lot of mycene or mycerine in it. Myrcene. Myrcene. And sorry, I had a hair lip when I was a kid.

1:28:58SpeakerIt's got that plus maybe the Azurlene and the Ramadama Ding Dong. But it smells like the best hash you've ever smelled in your life. That's the interesting thing about it. I just can't get over it. I got a little vial of it and I'm carrying it around like an alcohol snifter now. Every now and then I'm just going, you know, just to smell it because it's just a delicious smell.

1:29:27SpeakerAnd when you sniff a good strong sniff of it in, you can actually taste it on the back of your tongue. So whatever it is, it would make a very interesting perfume, I can tell you that. Because I would kiss an ugly girl who was wearing that.

1:29:52ToddThat's just quoting a phrase. No one wants to follow that. No one wants to say anything.

1:29:58AtnI could say something is he needs a perfume that when a girl smells it will kiss him.

1:30:06SpeakerYeah, that's not possible. Well, I was going to talk to you about it because I know you've got some, but.

1:30:14ToddCancer, no, cancer, cannabis perfumes are definitely in the future.

1:30:21Etienne FontanYeah, but not cancer perfumes, thanks. Yeah, that's something we don't want to be attracting, thanks. It's already one and two.

1:30:27AtnYou probably heard that, Jim, that they've got dogs that can smell people who have cancer and the dog notifies them.

1:30:35SpeakerYep, yep, yep, yep. Well, you know, what's interesting about that is that there must be a pathway back towards curing cancer from smells because, you know, every microphone is a speaker and every speaker is a microphone and that's really the way this world works. Everything has its extremes and then there's a middle place. And so, usually your body, as Todd was saying, is suffering from the extreme of a really shitty diet and a shitty lifestyle and so its response is cancer.

1:31:07SpeakerAnd, or something like that, or you start rotting or, you know, because we fuel ourselves with what we eat. And if we eat shit, you know, you can't, you can't expect to run a Maserati on a carrot scene. You know what I mean? So.

1:31:23ToddThat's a really good euphemism, you know, because a lot of people would actually put better fuel in their fancy car than they put food in their mouth. So go, go irony.

1:31:36AtnThe other side of that is live fast and leave a good looking corpse.

1:31:44SpeakerWell, you weren't like sticking to that yourself, right?

1:31:48Etienne FontanNo.

1:31:48SpeakerBrought to you by Yul Brynner.

1:31:50AtnThat was the other side of the coin.

1:31:52SpeakerOh, okay. Because I was going to say, too late.

1:31:59ToddYeah, I don't know. I think cannabis, I don't know why I keep thinking about cancer, but I think cannabis is actually going to be I don't know, I just feel like it's going to have such a resurgence in the world in a popular way because it connects with us in a way that pop stars or movie star or, you know, name some entertainer doesn't. You know, cannabis really becomes part of our life and helps us.

1:32:24ToddIn a way that, you know, all of us would explain in our own way. So I just see cannabis becoming hugely popular in the next 20 to 50 years.

1:32:36AtnAnd Todd, don't you feel that if cannabis helped old, fat, white, rich guys get a hard-on like Viagra, that it would already be legal and would have been 50 years ago?

1:32:50SpeakerI think more like 150 years ago.

1:32:53ToddYou know, no. I mean, I think that cannabis, the problem with it is, you know, Viagra has, you know, one job. And when you look at how cannabis, you know, Jack used to point out all the time that he felt that marijuana, per se, was made illegal, not because the government was trying to protect you from things like yourself, you know, when it would let you smoke yourself to COPD or drink yourself to cirrhosis.

1:33:17ToddIt didn't care about you as a person. You had plenty of opportunities to drive your pickup truck into your own wall or tree. So the whole lie about we're protecting you from marijuana was a lie. And Jack used to point out all the time that the industrial applications of cannabis were really the reason that they wanted to literally, as DuPont put in their shareholders report, they wanted to use the sudden acceptance of taxation to force social acceptance of things like nylon.

1:33:49ToddBecause you had society not wanting to give up old-fashioned ways of doing things like making fucking rope using hemp. So they had to outlaw the old cannabis hemp industrial lifestyle because they weren't going to get in this new synthetic solution that they had on so many levels. And the problem that cannabis really suffered was that All of these different industries, didn't matter if it was pharmaceutical, tobacco, alcohol, you know, even oil or cotton or lumber because fuck, you can make paper out of this fan plant too.

1:34:28ToddSo all of these exterior industries started focusing in on keeping cannabis illegal or at bay because of its actually, in my opinion, forcing commerce. I mean, what do you all think?

1:34:42SpeakerYou said Viagra's got one job?

1:34:45ToddWell, cannabis comes along and makes all these different things. Viagra has a single purpose as a drug, in a sense, yeah. Unless it has other purposes, I don't know. I'm honestly not familiar with it.

1:34:57SpeakerI just wonder if that's where the saying hand job came from, because that seems to me like what Viagra was created for, a bunch of people.

1:35:04ToddWell, you know, we have a lot of single-use drugs, you know, that society uses. But, you know, cannabis is not a single-use anything. Cannabis comes in almost in every element of our life. I mean, you know, you can wear it, you can smoke it, you can apply it to your skin, you can put it on your morning cereal. I mean, this is pretty ridiculous when you start breaking it on down.

1:35:25ToddI mean, honestly, I read The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Kerr and I didn't believe it. I thought that it was ridiculous. I thought the nutritional chapter had to be ridiculous. I thought there's no way all that could be real because it puts cannabis at the hub of society. It puts cannabis at the hub of history. It puts cannabis in a significant place that we would not have had things like the great art in Europe that is painted on canvas if we didn't have the cannabis plant that they made the canvas from.

1:35:57SpeakerWell, I mean, look, why would our body have cannabinoid receptors in it? And that's the fucking end. It doesn't.

1:36:03AtnIt's got endocannabinoid receptors. It's not a THC or CBD receptor.

1:36:10SpeakerOkay, and so that points out the fact that we've been intimately acquainted with cannabis plant since the day somebody planted this garden here.

1:36:23AtnWell, you might be right, but I don't feel it does that at all. I think that it just so happens that THC does

1:36:45ToddBut doesn't it actually show that there's been a co-evolution of this plant with humanity? I mean, cannabinoids, I mean, Lester Grinspoon always pointed out to me the significance of cannabis in the way that, for instance, DMT is found in over a couple dozen different plants. THC is only found in cannabis.

1:37:05AtnCannabinoid receptors are also found in sea urchins. Do you think there's a reason for them to have cannabinoid receptors?

1:37:14SpeakerThey might be smoking some good shit down there. They might eat some fish that are loaded with THC, dude. We don't know, but we know that the receptors are there universally. It seems like a lot of animals.

1:37:26ToddBut can I ask this though? It doesn't need to be the plant that caused the receptors to be there. I mean, isn't nature mimicking itself all over the place? I mean, I'm not a tiger. I'm not a lion, but I'm not a bear, but we all have two eyes, two ears, nose, mouth, you know, bloodstream, well-pressed, shit, make babies. We're not a lot different when you start looking at nature.

1:37:48AtnWhat is successful succeeds with evolution.

1:37:54SpeakerWell, nature is definitely a copycat. You can get strawberries. You can get strawberry guavas. You can get about a half a dozen plants that taste like strawberries. You can buy raspberries that taste exactly like strawberries. So there's a ton of flavor reproductions done throughout. You can get guavas that taste like bananas. You can get pineapple guavas that taste exactly like a pineapple. You put it in your mouth and chew it up.

1:38:21SpeakerSlight difference in texture. However, it tastes just like a pineapple. And that's not the only one. I've had stuff, you know, I spend a lot of time in Asia and I've tasted pretty much every kind of fruit there that was available to taste. The only thing I found objectionable was jackfruit. I ate a piece of jackfruit and I went into anaphylactic shock and something in it really messed with me in a bad way.

1:38:46SpeakerBut all the rest of the tropical fruits, like mangosteen, I could eat mangosteens all day long. The best stuff I've ever had in my mouth. And I'm winking at my wife right now.

1:39:02AtnFrom which country did you like mangosteens the best?

1:39:07SpeakerNorth India. I had the best mangosteens I've ever had.

1:39:13AtnI've had them where they're really, really big and there are hardly any seeds and the seeds are pretty small.

1:39:22SpeakerFrom where?

1:39:23AtnI think the best ones I had were Thailand or a little bit south of Thailand. In Southeast Asia. But I never saw mangosteens that much in India when I traveled around. Mango is the king of fruit in India.

1:39:40SpeakerYeah, but there's 96 different varieties of edible mangoes in India. But in the north of India during mangosteen season, they're hanging in every single market. It's just like when the, what's that Chinese fruit, lychee, when lychees come in in north India, They're hanging everywhere in all the stalls. I mean, you can't not see them. And the same thing with mangosteens because I got my habit eating them there because for like 10 rupees, you could get a bag of about 15.

1:40:08SpeakerAnd here in the States, they went like five bucks each for them or some ridiculous price like that. I had to curb myself. But, you know, I've had some from Bangladesh. And a few other spots. But they mostly like to grow right up in the high cold attitudes. So maybe the bigger ones that you saw were somewhere it was warmer.

1:40:33AtnYeah. I've seen a few plants, but I've never been to big plantations of mangosteens or lychees. But I do like lychees.

1:40:47SpeakerLook, I love them, especially right off the tree. We would stop in the taxi cab on the way to the foothills and buy a basket of leachies right pulled off the tree and then pop them out of those skins on the way up and eat them. Or if it was mangosteen season. But mangosteens are, I mean, they got a quarter inch thick, tough as coarse leather skin on the outside that you've got to conquer.

1:41:10SpeakerSo you've got to have a hell of a knife along with you. Leachies are easy. I'm enjoying the local Jamaican nice berries, which are about the size of a kiwi, but nothing like a kiwi. They are absolutely delicious when they're fully ripe and they just melt into your mouth. Say the name again, Bubba Man. What kind of berries?

1:41:33Etienne FontanNice berry. What does a nice berry taste like?

1:41:38SpeakerYeah. Now it's, I guess it's maybe similar to a fig, but a fig with a very, very different, like durian, when durian is ripe and proper, like it's very almost gooey, it just falls right out of the, you know, like it looks kind of like a kiwi, like it's got that, it's a little bit shaped like a pear, but they are very delicious, hard to really describe anything in North America that they taste.

1:42:08AtnIs it like a cherimoya?

1:42:10SpeakerThey're good. What's that?

1:42:13AtnIs it like a cherimoya?

1:42:16SpeakerI've never had a cherimoya.

1:42:20AtnSoursop?

1:42:30Etienne FontanWell, what about snozzberries? Have you had snozzberries?

1:42:35SpeakerThese snozzberries taste and smell like snozzberries.

1:42:39AtnWeren't they developed by Jimmy Durante?

1:42:49Etienne FontanI really showed my age on that one.

1:42:57Etienne FontanLow on the conversation. Bong rip.

1:43:01SpeakerJohn just went to the bathroom.

1:43:02AtnBong rip. Turp dip.

1:43:07SpeakerThat's right, guys. I've been bong ripping. This aforementioned oil with the green terps that everybody's in full doubt about. And all I can tell you is if you were here.

1:43:26AtnIf you wanted to get really, really popular, really fast, call it Soylent Green.

1:43:31SpeakerYeah, that's a good idea. Fresh too. I've never heard that before. Soylent Green Terps. I was thinking more like lines of Emerald City Terps.

1:43:44Etienne FontanSo with those green Terps, do you get your chlorophyll?

1:43:48SpeakerThere's no chlorophyll in it. I know. It's the first thing. You know, that's how it looks on the screen. For some reason, the screen likes to pick up a very green color, but it's more antifreeze looking. It's a blue-green almost.

1:44:02ToddI've got a question for Scaldone. Why does the resin in our bonds glow under black light? What's that now? Why does the resin in our bongs glow? Why is it phosphorescent under a black light? Why does, um, reclaim? No, well, whatever. Fucking sit in the dark and shoot a black light at your fucking bong and it'll glow. All the resin and It glows. I'm not that stoned.

1:44:33ToddI'm not alone in this.

1:44:35SpeakerIt absorbs a lot different than the neighboring material just because it's organic. And yeah, there are molecules in there that will absorb in the UV range. The term like phosphorescent or like the black light effect, like if you shine like a light on it, it actually has sort of like a fluorescence to it. Fluorescence is actually a chemical property Where you actually, you know, fluorescing an excited state.

1:45:08SpeakerSo you excite something by shining a light on it. It excites the molecule into an excited state. And as that molecule goes back to its normal state, there's an emission of a photon. And that emission of a photon, the wavelength of that photon depends on the size of that energy gap and that excitation.

1:45:29ToddI like it's photons is what you're saying.

1:45:31SpeakerYes, if you see like, so the point I think you're trying to describe is if you see sort of like the black light effect where it kind of like glows, like there's that actual light that's coming off of it because you're shining a light on it and it's interacting with that energy in a particular way. To make it present. It's like if you looked at your cocaine underneath a black light and you could see different specks or different other crap in it, you knew it was cut because If it's pure cocaine, if it's a pure molecule, it's all going to absorb at the same, absorb and fluoresce at the same wavelength.

1:46:15SpeakerSo if you see imperfections in there, yeah, that's because there's other materials in there that's not the pure material, if that makes sense.

1:46:24AtnEspecially if it's green. Yeah.

1:46:28SpeakerYeah. Thanks a lot. As well.

1:46:35SpeakerIt's because I'm the only person who's done it right so far.

1:46:42SpeakerJohn, what's the word of the week? What's the Hash Church word of the week that we want to get straight this week? I'm going to have to go look on my thing. I wrote down three. I'll look on my notepad.

1:46:52ToddUntil then, we'll use green. I can't believe people still do cocaine. Is that even possible? Is it true?

1:47:03ToddI thought that was an 80s thing. I really did.

1:47:06SpeakerYeah, I just went and saw, you know, a concert in New York City, and I think New York City, you find all kinds of crazy shit in New York City, and yeah, this guy next to me seemed a little kind of like despondent, like I thought that maybe he was a little just out of it, or, you know, he was doing his own thing and everything, but then I understood why his behavior was so erratic when he got out of his little thing, and Started doing stuff off the end of keys and everything like that.

1:47:38SpeakerAnd I just, you know, through a vape pen cloud, just looked at him like, yeah, whatever, dude. You know, start your white powders. I hope you feel good.

1:47:51SpeakerIt was really funny. A couple of years ago, I was at a concert where it was pouring rain. I mean, it was absolutely, my wife and I were just completely drenched from head to foot. We were getting completely soaked. The band was underneath the thing that protected them from the rain. But these kids next to me took out their bindle of white powder, God knows what the hell it was.

1:48:11SpeakerAnd it was just so pouring rain, it just completely just dissolved their shit. I mean, it just completely. And these kids were trying to basically, you know, look for a genie in the lamp at the end of the night. They were You know, trying to lick that piece of foil or lick that piece of paper or get whatever last little remnants of ecstasy or MDMA or God knows what other white powder, you know, they were pulling off of it.

1:48:37SpeakerBut it was just crazy because it seemed like they were completely preoccupied with this little foil fold of drugs and were not there for the same reason that everybody else in the pouring rain was, which was to see the music.

1:48:55SpeakerSee how wonderful obliviousness can be?

1:49:02SpeakerYeah, well, they were certainly oblivious. Yeah, I think a combination of both, being blissed and being oblivious, but... You know, you find some really weird behavior at concerts every once in a while. People can't keep their shit together. And a friend of mine who also goes...

1:49:22ToddHold up, hold up. I just got to throw something out there. Says the guy wearing a Grateful Dead shirt.

1:49:28SpeakerYeah. Hey, but I try to keep my shit together, dude. I never like... I'm not saying you are one of the problem deadheads.

1:49:38ToddI'm just saying there's been some problem deadheads.

1:49:41SpeakerYeah, I agree with you because I've been in a lot of those shows where you have the ultra, you know, anti-authoritarian hippie who doesn't want to be told that he needs to have shoes on to get inside the concert venue, right?

1:49:57AtnI like the guy who ends up on the stage, professing to the entire audience that the revolution is over. We won. We won.

1:50:13SpeakerYeah, if the food shits, wear it.

1:50:23SpeakerWell, there's a really good book written by Richard Loren. Richard Loren, if those of you who don't know him, was the Doors manager, Jim Morrison's personal manager for several years. He also managed Jerry Garcia for a while, and he was also David Grissman's manager during the Earth Opera years. So he's got a new book out, again, a very inside, behind-the-scenes book. View and man, his description of a typical day with Jim Morrison.

1:50:52SpeakerHe was describing when Jim Morrison was arrested down in Miami. And as it turns out, I guess in the dressing room before he was arrested on stage for his lewd and crude behavior, he got maced by a Miami police officer because they thought he was some, they didn't realize he was the, he was Jim Morrison. You know, I thought he was some, Thank you for watching.

1:51:46SpeakerI just remember going to the psychedelic supermarket on Sunset Boulevard and sitting at the table next to Jimi Hendrix when he came in to jam with the drummer from the Monkees. And they would get up and do a three or four-hour- Yeah, Mickey Dongs, right? They would do a three or four hour set and afterwards Jimmy would come and sit down at the table with us because his girlfriend was sitting there right next to the stage and he was one soft-spoken nice guy.

1:52:17SpeakerHad no idea at that point in time he was going to become who he was because that was Pretty early on. And that place only lasted for about a year, the psychedelic supermarket. It was a Safeway. And the Safeway went out of business. So somebody thought it would be a good idea to set it up as a nightclub. And it was just before the Sunset Strip where you had the nightclubs that you couldn't get in unless you had the right look or some money or some drugs in your hand to palm to the guy at the door.

1:52:51SpeakerBut yeah, those were crazy days.

1:53:04SpeakerBall rip. Ball rip. Yeah, I haven't done one yet. I've got some really, these guys, the Frankenstein extracts made up this cookies. They're like a cookie and, but it's really soft and just take a little chunk off that cookie and it sticks to the dabber thing quite nicely. And really nice, it's banana, strawberry, kush stuff. So I dedicate this to Frankenstein Extractions and to everybody we lost last year.

1:53:43SpeakerEverything new this year that's coming along and our victory, this is a victory bong for All the years, you know, I remember thinking all the years of my life up until now, gee, next year, it's going to be legal. Next year, it's going to be legal. Next year, it's going to be legal. And finally, here it is. And I hope to God that this new idiot that they're bringing in as AG doesn't try to do 180 degree on us all.

1:54:13Etienne FontanWell, it wouldn't be surprising, I mean, Donald Trump could actually legalize it, which is a discussion a few of us have had, you know, and how would we feel about that, you know?

1:54:23SpeakerBy executive order? Remember, the executive branch does not make the laws, they just enforce them.

1:54:33AtnI think we should all sign the petition right now, all of us, the entire cannabis community. That if for any reason he does do that, we will all comb our hair forward.

1:54:44ToddWell, can I say something beyond all that for a minute? It only takes half of Congress and literally the President to change federal policy on cannabis prohibition. And if we all started contacting our congressmen, realiztically, we could have an effect on this because that's all it would take. I mean, when you get down to it, it's a few hundred people that need to be influenced. That could change policy on a national level.

1:55:11AtnWhat percentage of the population in America are smokers? 10, 15%?

1:55:18SpeakerWell, 72% approve of it, so maybe there's a lot more closet queens.

1:55:23AtnThe medical use, that's true, for sure.

1:55:27ToddYou know, I think, though, that we're entering into a new conversation where they're starting to see the economics. You know, a sense of it all. So we are kind of entering it in to a new paradigm. And even, you know, when people get the reality that cannabis prohibition is not really an economic conservative stance, it shouldn't be. If you're an economic conservative or you're a conservative, you should be all for lifting marijuana prohibition and turning it back into a commodity that people can profit from because there's no sense in prohibiting it because prohibiting it doesn't keep it out of the hands of people.

1:56:06SpeakerThere's three signs that you'll be able to tell that everything's turning around. There's three pointers. When cops can smell it, smoke it. When priests can smoke it. And when politicians can smoke it, then it'll be completely okay for all the rest of us. But until all three of those are satisfied, and vets, and vets, I mean, you know, it's a crying shame that we haven't said... Give this to our vets.

1:56:37SpeakerI mean, look at Tim. He suffered and still suffers from promoting it for vets and for himself. And that shouldn't be. Instead, they should be sticking a medal on his chest for sticking to his gun.

1:56:51Etienne FontanThe medals go to those that need it. I mean, I'm fighting this for everyone. That's why I realized that I couldn't fight it on my own.

1:57:00ToddSo you needed everyone's medals?

1:57:02Etienne FontanRight, everybody has to win. I mean, I can't change the VA just for me, but if we can change the VA for everybody else, and I want to thank Representative Dana Titus in Nevada. She's been tirelessly working and I've been working with her and among others and Michael Kravitz and others that have been really promoting and working with the VA directly and are working it from the inside out.

1:57:26Etienne FontanWe have a Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:57:53Etienne FontanWhich means there's current campaigns right now that are going to be happening next year that you can currently go get involved in and in effect find a candidate who supports cannabis. If you have a living one that isn't, you can run for office or find somebody who feels the way that you do in those representative seats or Senate seats. And get out there and support them. Go out there and do the unthankful, fucked up shit, which people don't want to talk about, which is go out there and make the phone calls.

1:58:26Etienne FontanVolunteer for them. Get involved and then you can meet these politicians face to face. You may lose, but they may win. And then when they get in, you have a chance through their voice to affect positive change through what you've been working toward. This is the long, slow progress that takes place. But you know, you can run for office if you're old enough and you believe in it and you can stand on the platform of cannabis.

1:58:50Etienne FontanPeople are being successful that way. People have also been run out of office and been, you know, We're not out of their political careers by it, so you've got to run it out of very balanced reality, but you can be the change that you want to see, and you can work currently to affect this change. We're working behind the scenes right now in the VA, and like I said, we're going to continue to work and do these things, but if you don't like what's happening now, if you don't like what you're seeing going on politically, next year is your opportunity to affect change, and you can get involved and get active now and create that change.

1:59:25Etienne FontanOtherwise, I don't want to hear you bitching. Get out there and contribute. Otherwise, you're going to let somebody else run with something else. We've seen what they're running with currently, so we're changing it slowly.

1:59:37SpeakerIn addition to all that you just said, I think it's kind of a magical moment because after the GOP gets rid of Obamacare for the most part and a lot of people are out of Health care again that the GOP has been hammering into us that America doesn't want it and we don't need it and they want to get rid of it. And I think after they do that, it'll be fairly easy for Democrats to shoot themselves back in because 99% of Americans will realize Thank you for joining us.

2:00:35Etienne FontanThank you for joining us.

2:00:51Etienne FontanThey are woke, they are active, and that people can get active. However, I do want to caution is that we had a rally here in Berkeley that turned violent when black blocks showed up. So you got to be wary is that people are going out and doing peaceful protests. However, there are, like in Berkeley, they had 150 people show up all in black masks, black shirts, and they were the ones that were throwing rocks.

2:01:15Etienne FontanThat were torching things and that were harassing. So be aware is that when you're there, you're actually part of, you know, you are the eyes and ears there. So, you know, be aware that you could be putting your body on the line when you go out to these things nowadays because people were hurt physically by the police because of the repercussions of this black bloc group going out there and acting up.

2:01:38Etienne FontanI do not support them. I do not believe in Thank you for joining us today.

2:02:10SpeakerGandhi, we have to Gandhi them out. I mean, you know, we just have to, we can't respond with violence. It's just not going to work because those guys like nothing better than getting out some of the militaristic hardware that they have or a big sharp rock with points on it and throwing it at people. There's a lot of angry people. They are the ones that sign up for the black uniforms and masks and they want to hurt somebody that they're, They're not happy with things the way they are.

2:02:39SpeakerAnd they anonymize themselves by putting on the black clothes and the mask, thus writing themselves a permission slip to beat the living shit out of somebody who happens to be nearby and innocent. And that's the mechanism, of course, that the governments use when they herd you together in an army with all the same green clothes on and everybody in one frame of mind, let's go kill these motherfuckers.

2:03:05SpeakerYou know, that's what we have to get over as a people. We have to stop killing each other. There's no real reason for it. Religion, I'm sorry, that's not a good excuse for killing someone. You're angry, you're pissed off, maybe your mom and dad didn't treat you right, and mom didn't breastfeed you when you were a kid, and you know, you've got a lot of anger. But somehow we've all got to get to the point where like a school of fish where we all notice that about each other.

2:03:41SpeakerAnd it has to do with caring for all of the people all at the same time and all in the same way. And then things like that come up. I mean, I saw a YouTube video yesterday where a lady was violently opposed to allowing people to be around her in a wheelchair. And she said it was disgusting and she didn't want to see it and it disturbed her.

2:04:03SpeakerAnd I think that there's a lot of that particular kind of poison in our society right now. People at certain levels India is stratified, the untouchables, they got the Brahmins and, you know, different levels, casts. But we have business cast and association cast here. And that's what goes on. We had no idea that we're buying into that, but we do. We buy into it. With these projects, these neighborhoods where we quantify everybody who's going to live there and stuff them all in that one neighborhood and take care of them.

2:04:45SpeakerAnd yeah, I mean, it's sad, but somehow we have to come to consciousness. We have to come to terms with understanding everybody's got a heart and everybody's got feelings. We're not dealing with that. We're doing it on the I am a tiger basis.

2:05:07Etienne FontanYes, but how do you deal with that when you have 150 people in black outfits and weapons show up and start beating you?

2:05:16SpeakerWell, I mean, yeah, something has to be done about it, but do you think that getting weapons and beating them back is the answer?

2:05:25Etienne FontanNo, I'm not saying. I'm just trying to open the discussion because this is one of the things that we as the peaceful, nonviolent have to confront and we have to discuss because I don't know what is the solution. How does one prevent that when people can, you know, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:06:08SpeakerAnd if they're already uncomfortable with the way they grew up and they're feeling a bit hateful, then they're very upset about it in that way. And they want to do something about it. And putting the mask and the black clothes on makes it okay to do something about it because that's not really them themselves. It's a persona. And they're okay with doing that. Hey, look on TV, we constantly have shows where people are encouraged to stab each other in the back.

2:06:39SpeakerAll those survivor shows and all that. I mean, it's crazy what they're promoting and what they're teaching these people. We're not teaching these people any kind of understanding. We're teaching them money is king. Stab your neighbor in the back and come out on top. Outlie, outcheat, outsteal.

2:06:59AtnCome on, Ed Chen, tell the truth. You were just kind of bummed out because you were the only one in the crowd that didn't have a black suit to slip on real quick and then do your violence and then take it back off again because they didn't tell you what time and where to bring the stuff to.

2:07:18SpeakerYeah. I missed the whole thing. I wasn't there. Too far to drive. Yeah.

2:07:24Etienne FontanI gave all that stuff up after my war. War humbles you and teaches you things and either you learn from them or you get addicted to them and I was one of those that learned from it as opposed to became Thank you for watching.

2:07:56Etienne FontanAnd that I don't know what the solution is, but they need to be aware because we as a group have to discuss how do we handle this because there's going to be more nonviolent protests. And the reality is that it's going to be more of them showing up because they're also out there on social media and are out there and they're very effective. I mean, they were, Black Block was very successful in, you saw in Europe and a lot of the European situations, but I'm not sure it's going to work as well here.

2:08:26Etienne FontanLook, I'm just a promoter of nonviolent peace. That's all I am. And I just want to discuss the realities that are out there that even if we as activists for cannabis go out there, they've blended in as well. So it's just something we need to be aware and make people aware of so that...

2:08:42SpeakerATN, you've been to war. I've been to war. I think anybody that's been to war immediately wants to be completely nonviolent because war is an exercise in futility. And when you see people's bodies blown apart and their lives completely changed and ruined and you try to understand what it was about. I mean, I was in Vietnam and what was the war about? They weren't telling us because all we had was the Stars and Stripes, which is military propaganda paper.

2:09:09SpeakerThat they gave to us while we were there. And it would say things like, Vietnam troops, war heroes, Vietnam troops conquered this, Vietnam troops that. And you'd read that shit and then you'd go back and get off the plane in Oakland and people were throwing beer bottles with piss in it at you and screaming baby killers. And the dichotomy about what went on is it's rampant in every single war.

2:09:33SpeakerYou know, while you were where you were at, they were telling lies. And the people... I got to see it like you.

2:09:40Etienne FontanYou get to see it firsthand because when you're in it and you're there and then you're among the culture and you find out what the war is really about, which mine was about oil, you know, if you realize that Kuwait slant drilled into Iraq's oil supply and then it turned out to be, you know, George Bush's company. Oh, and then next thing you know, they invade, you know, Kuwait.

2:10:02Etienne FontanAnd so now America has to show up and defend that democracy, we were told. And of course, when I got there, I find out. It's a monarchy. And, you know, all these lies that you've been fed and then you realize when you're in it, and that's why I had a lot of regret, had a lot of issues, especially after I came back from my war. Because after living under the oil fires and being under, it was 28 degrees under those oil fires.

2:10:27Etienne FontanIt was 130 degrees outside of those oil fires. So I got to see firsthand the destruction, all of it, and the worst man can do. And I've seen apocalypse, dog, trust me, it's ugly. And like you said, once you've seen the worst man can do, you want to try to do the best you can to help man. Or at least that's been my goal. And it's kind of that whole thing of look toward the Native American philosophy of providing seven generations to come.

2:10:55Etienne FontanI know what I will not do in my lifetime I will have success with, but I hope that seven generations to come, they will not know my pain and not know my sorrow. So I've worked tirelessly with others to work for a future for your children. I'm never going to have kids. I've worked for their children and their children and their children after that. I've been fortunate that we've been able to arrive at some of these things in my lifetime and hopefully we'll get further and continue with this further generation and those 700 plus people that are watching us will inspire others to get active and get involved and plug in and not ignore what's going on and affect the change and be the change that they know that they can be.

2:11:39SpeakerWell, I had four kids at 10. Pick one and they're yours.

2:11:44Etienne FontanNo, thanks. I gave it up for Lent.

2:11:46SpeakerGave it up for Lent. Oh, man.

2:11:51ToddYeah, I think cannabis is a great tool with peace wagers because it certainly chills people out and puts them in a different headspace. And all the time I lived in Amsterdam, I never saw a coffee shop brawl. Not once, not ever, not late. Not early in the morning, not ever. So I saw a lot of people playing chess and listening to reggae, but I've never seen people fighting in this place that sold cannabis.

2:12:18SpeakerWell, now, I have been sitting in a coffee shop in Amsterdam and watched a fight out front by some alcoholics.

2:12:27ToddYeah, actually, I've seen a lot of fucked up shit sitting there watching the drunks walk by. To be honest, yeah, that's a whole different conversation. But not inside the cannabis, you know, it's now to see the culture emerging into this and people being able to go out and smoke pot and smoke hash and dab with their friends and it not being a completely, you know, underground thing, but in fact it being something that we could do mainstream, like we could drink a beer or we could have a glass of wine or even smoke a cigarette and nobody would like, you know, frown at us.

2:13:05ToddYou know, I think cannabis is going to get to that place pretty quick.

2:13:09SpeakerCoffee shop main draw for me when I used to go there from India was the ability to sit in the window, which was a giant TV screen, and watch the Amsterdam life roll by where you were getting high. Because there's always some serious shit going on in Amsterdam, or there was in the 80s and 90s when I was going back and forth.

2:13:30Etienne FontanOne of the earlier powerful things I did was when I went to Amsterdam there in 95 was to go to a coffee shop and sit in the window and not have people look or gawk at you like you're some weird thing. It was so normalized there and it was such a feeling of freedom that I had never experienced before that I always thought was possible that we could just be normal humans just consuming cannabis And I felt that for the first time there in Amsterdam and I have to say it was very enriching to my soul.

2:14:03SpeakerYeah, it was a wonderful bar. I loved it too.

2:14:06ToddYeah, I fell in love with Amsterdam too. The feeling of freedom was incredible. The feeling of like not being an outlaw and not being a criminal was just, I never imagined how good it would feel until I got up there and walked into a coffee shop and ordered off a menu and sat down and had some coffee.

2:14:25AtnI felt the same way in 1971 in Kathmandu. No, truly, truly did. It was just amazing how they could do this. And I had also read about the British tax and distribution system for marijuana and hashish. But yeah, and how backwards we all were at that time.

2:14:52SpeakerAll those little shops along the street in Kathmandu, all those government hash stores, man, I loved those. That was the fucking place to be then.

2:15:06Etienne FontanBut it was such, and we've all experienced that feeling of normal, because we knew cannabis was normal in our lives, but to be out in society and to have it, to be at least at that time and area, to be accepted as that, and you were just accepted as a cannabis human, that was a beautiful thing.

2:15:26AtnActually, before I went to India, I had spent four or five months in Morocco. And I met quite a few elderly Muslim guys who owned shops and stuff like that. And almost all of them smoked Keith and Ascensi. And it was technically illegal, but at the same time, nobody was ever bothered. You just... If the police were walking by, you didn't take a puff in front of him.

2:15:59AtnYou maybe cupped your pipe behind your arm just out of courtesy to the police.

2:16:07Etienne FontanThat's cool. I just found my, I have a glass Sebsi pipe that I had made and I just found it the other day. So yeah, it's still got the old sticks that stick together and a little glass Sebsi on the end.

2:16:25Etienne FontanAsepsy is asepsy pipe for smoking hash, people. It's a small, usually a small spoon.

2:16:29AtnAsh is not a hash pipe. It's a chopped up black tobacco mixed with chopped up flower tops. It's not really a hash pipe. It's a keef pipe, essentially.

2:16:43Etienne FontanKeef pipe. There you go. I'll go get it. One second. Somebody has to see it. I'm going to go grab it in one second.

2:16:58SpeakerYep. Bong hit.

2:17:04SpeakerLet's see. Time to switch over to Resin Ranch.

2:17:22SpeakerThat's their 99%.

2:17:25SpeakerIt's like glass.

2:17:37SpeakerAh, it smells wonderful.

2:17:44Etienne FontanDo you remember this, Todd? Beautiful.

2:17:50AtnThat's a big one.

2:17:52Etienne FontanYeah, I had this because I always, I was always smoking, I was smoking bubble hash because I had one of the original machines. This is where you assemble it together. It's two pieces of wood, which I got these in Amsterdam, which I do believe these are made in Morocco, and then they're just...

2:18:08AtnThey are, I can tell you.

2:18:10Etienne FontanYeah. It's a great pipe, and then, yeah, it just smoked out of the end.

2:18:17AtnHow did you smoke out of it? Was there a screen or...?

2:18:23Etienne FontanNow, I would, if you, the hole is very small. This is dirty. It's very old. I got to clean it. I found it along with some other pipes that I have.

2:18:35AtnIt just seems like if you were smoking bubbly hash, it would clog up the holes instantly.

2:18:40Etienne FontanWell, if you look, I would do it to a side and I would light it on the side like this. You'd smoke it on the side.

2:18:47AtnI understand.

2:18:48Etienne FontanYeah, because that was, otherwise that was the thing as you can see by this that's baked on this side is that it was exactly that. It would, yeah. So I had this made back in 97 or something like that.

2:19:03AtnGood night, Marcus.

2:19:10SpeakerThanks for coming out, everybody. Sorry it didn't work out for me. Ha.

2:19:17ToddNext.