Mother's Day and Cannabis Root Research

0:01BubblemanAll right, we are live. Welcome everybody to Bubble Man's World and welcome to Hash Church episode 138. 138 Sundays that we have been gathering here at this little spot here in this little corner of the internet. Of course, I'm going to send out some invitations to everybody so we can get some people in the room. Hopefully, I can actually... Get my invitations out again today because I am having sometimes a problem with my emails lately.

0:34BubblemanSo let me just find out. See if Mr. Chimera wants to join the party and we will figure that out real quick.

0:47Etienne FontanGood morning, sir. Happy Mother's Day to everyone.

0:50BubblemanYes, happy Mother's Day to all of the mothers out there. I meant to say that as well. My bad. Let's thank God for Etienne and Mr. Class showing up and representing for the moms.

1:04Etienne FontanHappy Mother's Day as well, Mark. Do you know where Mother's Day started, everyone?

1:09BubblemanPlease, please tell us.

1:12Etienne FontanFairmont, West Virginia. I thought Philadelphia. That's Fairmont, West Virginia. Mother's Day and Father's Day are centrally located out of Fairmont, West Virginia.

1:23Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the sign in Philadelphia is incorrect that it started there. That's what I've been told.

1:32Etienne FontanYou know, West Virginians aren't necessarily always known to be correct. Remember, they misspelled Monongalia and the Monongahela River forever. So, you know, they kind of have this issue. And I love all West Virginians, don't get me wrong. But I served out of Morgantown, West Virginia, and the unit was out of Fairmont, West Virginia. So they had a plaque and they have a statue for Mother's Day there.

1:57Etienne FontanInteresting.

2:00Dr Mark ScialdoneBecause Philadelphia, it's like part of like their whole, they have a whole, they have a, yeah, plaque. John Wanamaker, the famous starter of the Wanamaker store chain, I think, which was a big department store back in the day, like kind of like a Macy's kind of place.

2:21Dr Mark ScialdoneI think had something to do with it. And I'll try to find a picture of the sign online because I know that everyone's like, oh yeah, Mother's Day started in Philly. It's all on the news and everything like that. But we'll have to get to the bottom of this. We'll try that.

2:34BubblemanThis is where Joe Rogan would have his guy on the side be googling and searching. So welcome, Dr. Natasha, to the room, Mr. Scaldone, and Autopsy Turvy Sam is in the room, and of course, Mr. Todd McCormick.

2:52DrI'm doing yoga.

2:55Etienne FontanAh, yoga. That's a stretch, man.

2:59BubblemanDude, that's heavy.

3:04BubblemanI don't even know what to say to that, but that's funny. How was the conference the other day there, Natasha? Not the one that we were at, but the one that you went to after.

3:17SpeakerHey, everybody. Yeah, so I've been on the conference circuit checking out a lot of different speakers. So yeah, the conference Marcus is referring to was put on by the natural product. Wait, I want to get the title right.

3:36SpeakerIt's NHP, Natural Health Products Society of Canada. So they put on a conference from Monday to Thursday. I just attended the Thursday sessions, which was all based on cannabis. So it was nice. Dr. John Page spoke, Dr. Zach Walsh, who was on Hash Church before talking about his work with cannabis and PTSD. And Dr. Mahmoud El-Souly, hopefully I'm saying that right, was also speaking. And yeah, so Marcus, you said that Todd may have some guests on today who were part of the medical cannabis program in the US.

4:18SpeakerSo Dr. El-Souly was the director of this program. So hearing him speak was interesting. Me and Zach Walsh rolled our eyes a few times at each other across the room with some of the comments and claims he was making.

4:39BubblemanGive me an eye roller. Give me an example of an eye roller from El Soli.

4:45SpeakerWell, first off, the slides I don't think have been updated since the first time he's made a presentation. The images were... Thank you for joining us.

5:24SpeakerHow their group got the bid that came up every three years and their group was simply doing the best job and that's why they got the bid and then he was showing pictures of their technology which honestly looked like people who had bought a few pieces of equipment in their garage like really it was okay I've seen top of the line this was not top of the line from these images anyway um and then also Just said there was no, this was a big eye roller.

5:57SpeakerThere was really no interest from anyone for growing medical cannabis for the government. So they just kept getting the bid because they were the best and there was no competition. And then the big eye roller was when he was trying to convince us all that everybody preferred Thank you for joining us.

6:28SpeakerAnd he, I mean, Osoli had an okay enough explanation. He was saying since they were using these lower THC, I think 4% to 5% THC cigarettes in the studies, and the patients had to consume the entire cigarette for the study, from that perspective, they preferred the lower THC since they had to consume the entire cigarette. Cigarette versus just having a few pops.

6:55DrThat's not exactly true. I've talked to several of the federally approved medical patients, and they told me point blank. They preferred the weaker stuff. They didn't like the strong stuff that people have.

7:09SpeakerAll right. Well, then I guess that is what was happening. And so he was describing that. And... Thank you so much for joining us.

7:31Etienne FontanDoctor, when your base is only, of your research is now only two people, that's not a lot of research to go on. No offense to LV and to Irvin, however.

7:42Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's the only thing they know.

7:44BubblemanEverybody likes LV.

7:45Etienne FontanBut you have to also understand, Dr. Natasha, it's also in comparison because I've been around Elvie when she had the 2-3% back in the early 90s tins and she didn't like those and told me how she didn't like them compared to the 4-5% that she's getting now. Both were usually processed between 7-10 years prior to her receiving the actual tins. However, as Todd was showing you, one of the actual tins he had before him that comes with these joints and it's very low grade but Yeah, Dr. Natasha, I had people tell me that when they met them at the ICRS, Dr. Nassoli, when he saw the Great Book of Buds, thought that the book was fictitious because he'd never seen buds of that caliber or quality before.

8:30Etienne FontanAnd so out of that, we sent him a full set of the one, two, and three of the Great Book of Buds, as well as the Canna Bible, so that he could study and understand some of it, even though the information in there is not completely correct. It was still getting that information toward them. So I thought he was full of shit when he said that originally that, you know, I couldn't believe that there's high-grade marijuana like that.

8:54Etienne FontanThey've been testing it and dealing with that for years. So I'm not surprised they sold you that load of bullshit, doctor.

9:01DrWhen I was at Dr. El Sole's lab about 30 years ago, He showed me some cannabis that had been seized by the DEA in Alaska and it tested at 29% THC. That was marijuana. So he has seen it and he has grown it, believe me.

9:22SpeakerWas that Matanuska? Can I show you guys something funny? So this is one of the empty cans that was given to us as collection. And what's hilarious is when you look at the growth on this, it literally says manufactured March 2001, right? But then you spin that shit around and you'll see that it was passed out in 2009, right?

9:48SpeakerAre they literally trying to prove that it can't work?

9:51DrWhat are they trying to do? You understand, I know the guy who rolls those joints. He's an old friend of mine. He works with Dr. Osole. He works at Research Triangle Institute.

10:05Dr Mark ScialdoneDoes he wash his hands after he goes to the bathroom?

10:08DrLet me finish. What he does is he's required by the government To roll these joints. And it's a contract. And he's to roll them with a Bonzac cigarette rolling machine. I'm very familiar with the machine. I've used one myself. It's a giant fucking machine that's like, you know, 10 meters long and rolls one big giant joint that long of cigarettes. And then it cuts them with razor knives all automatically.

10:41DrAnd he would foul the machine if he ran even his lousy Mexican through it. So what they would do first is dry the material and sift it and remove what they call fines. What fines are is resin and very small particles of cannabis.

11:01SpeakerResin.

11:02DrThank you for joining us.

11:28Etienne FontanIsn't that an old Pall Mall machine? I saw a High Times article that came out in the 70s that actually showed them with an old Pall Mall machine, I think. Is that what you're talking about?

11:38DrNo, they use a Bonzac machine. That's the brand.

11:43SpeakerWell they were even showing how they were processing the cannabis and yeah they were saying oh we only we don't grow it every year we don't have to grow it every year which is a bit shocking and then they're showing how they're processing it and grinding it down to look like oregano and then putting it in these big tubs and then storing it like that which is uh Interesting to see.

12:04SpeakerAnd Mark Sheldon, your name came up, not during the talk, but I was hanging out with some of the chemists and natural food chemists after, and one of the, Dr. John Page brought up your name and said, because we were kind of describing how some of the techniques they were discussing weren't We're the necessarily the most up-to-date for analysis and so there may not actually be as many cannabinoids as they're claiming and then Mark your point you brought up when we were in Boston at CanMed and how when we were hanging with John Page and you said it might be the bacteria breakdown product so I think that's why you were asking did they wash their hands so that's pretty interesting.

12:44Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, all these, so they came out with a paper, I think, I want to say it was in 2008, Journal of Natural Products, and he reported the discovery of these new cannabinoids and isolation of these new cannabinoids, and they're actually not cannabinoids, they're all Thank you so much for joining us.

13:19Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're basically fungal metabolites because his weed is all moldy and it makes sense, right? They're growing weed down in the bayou, down in Mississippi. Of course it's going to mold if it's not properly taken care of. And so all of those hydroxyl Metabolites kind of are in route to making CBN because when they heat up on a nail, they thermally eliminate and they'll make CBN. So it was interesting that they reported the discovery of these so-called new metabolites.

13:50Dr Mark ScialdoneThese metabolites have been known for a long time and they're just oxidation byproducts that are formed on improperly cured weeds.

14:01Etienne FontanSo is that anaerobic decomposition, basically? It's the after effects?

14:07Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. No, it's not anaerobic. It's aerobic, right. It's happening in the air. It happens. I mean, it's funny because when you look at the tin that Todd held up, I mean, I guess back in the day, back in the 70s, maybe not for guys like Sam who were rolling around on the West Coast in Indra, but for those of us on the East Coast, man, that kind of like dirt weed was, that was the weed that we had.

14:32Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was kind of like, you know.

14:34DrBecause I started in Mexico.

14:35Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, it was moldy. But that was in the 60s. When I smell moldy weed now, moldy weed now reminds me of the way that we used to smell when I first started Thank you for joining us.

15:04Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you for joining us today.

15:26SpeakerAnd literally it says, manufactured March 2001. And they sat on it for eight years. It's going to have a natural degradation. Is it? Is it like...

15:40Dr Mark ScialdoneWhen they cure it, do they freeze it? Like after the curing, do they put it in the freeze?

15:47SpeakerI think they're destroying it. I think that, you know, you and I both know that cannabis starts to naturally break down after about nine months. It's a vegetable material.

15:55Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you think it's stored for like eight years in just like a plastic bag or a tub or something? No, I bet you it's frozen.

16:01Etienne FontanThey have a 55-gallon container. They grind it all down into. Now, I would anticipate that it's either frozen or stored refrigerated, but... I have seen them when they grind it all down and they just put it into a 55-gallon drum, and then I would assume then they just feed that right into the machine, correct, Sam? Next week, we will have both.

16:19DrAs far as I know, it was frozen, but I'm not 100% sure. But it was definitely kept in big, giant barrels for extended periods of time.

16:30Dr Mark ScialdoneMy 10-year-old hat still has this. Until recently, when Sue Sisley's study unearthed that the NIDA farm was growing moldy weed, had they ever tested their weed or any of their cannabis for pathogens or for bacteria or mold?

16:51DrI'm not sure. You should check the literature and see. Or ask Dr. Osoli. He'll tell you.

16:58SpeakerNext week, I'll have both LV Musica and Urban Rosenfeld, who are the last two people that receive marijuana from the federal government, or medical cannabis, I should say. They're here for a Patients Out of Time conference. So we'll have both of them on the show next Sunday. So we could ask them some questions and talk to them about it. They are literally the last two patients from the Compassionate Investigation New Drug Program to still be getting cannabis from the government.

17:26BubblemanSo maybe the panelists that have an urge to show up next Sunday could maybe spend the next week coming up with a few good questions that we could help direct the dialogue with both those guests. Always nice if we can put that little bit of energy in to make the show flow a little nicer.

17:44SpeakerTodd, are you going to be at Patients at a Time? Not so much. I mean, I'm kind of, you know, after two decades, I'm a little on the burnout of listening to all this stuff. I mean, all we're doing is regurgitating a lot of information that I've already read in most cases. So I love seeing my friends. I love playing host, but no. Are you going to go?

18:07SpeakerYeah, I'm going to be there. Come be one of the friends that visits me. Yeah, yeah, no, that would be amazing. So I get in on the Thursday, and so the conference is the Friday and the Saturday, and then Saturday I'm leaving, I'm going to visit Martin Lee's area of California, Northern California, so I'll be there for a few days, but that would be amazing if we could actually meet in person and visit.

18:34SpeakerOh, absolutely. Yeah, come on. Come on through. I was going to have a little party on Saturday night, but if you're doing that, that's fine. But if you have time, for sure. I wish I'd known sooner I could have offered you a guest room. Thank you. Yeah, I attended Patients at a Time last year in Baltimore and really enjoyed the conference. So we just had our Cannabis Hemp Conference and Expo here in Vancouver that Salome put on.

18:58SpeakerShe was on here previously. But Patients at a Time has a similar vibe for anyone who wants to check it out. It is wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us today.

19:35SpeakerInteracting and talking about cannabis and I just I found the conference really great. Last year Ethan Russo invited me to speak about cannabis roots and the potential that they would have for treating inflammation and even just all the different growers and people who had been throwing up their cannabis roots who came up and were like oh we're going to do stuff with these these So I'm excited to even connect with old friends and I won't be speaking this year but so I'll just get to attend won't have to worry about speaker nerves and those kinds of things but yeah Ethan Russo speaking again my friend and colleague Dr. Caroline McCollum will be speaking about cannabis for pain Dr. Dave Hepburn will be speaking Dr. Bonnie Goldstein will be speaking So yeah, it'll be a good meeting.

20:23SpeakerI saw lots of those people speak at CanMed in Boston with Mark. And yeah, so I'm excited to check out the America scene.

20:30DrI have a question for you. What's better, fresh roots or dried roots?

20:36SpeakerI think it depends on what your application is. So fresh roots, there's a history of using them just straight up. You can grate them and put them straight on a wound, but obviously there's water, so they're not going to last as long. The roots can be dried, and there's also a history of use of even making Thank you for joining us.

21:12DrI've seen people use roots in third world countries where cannabis was a traditional crop. And a lot of it was like you said, for skin abrasions or skin problems or cuts or things like that. And they all claimed it helped.

21:30SpeakerYeah, so how, tell me a little bit more, how were people using it in a variety of ways, or what was, what were you seeing?

21:37DrAs far as I know, it was fresh, but I didn't see them make the preparation, they just told me about it.

21:44SpeakerAh, and fresh, like were they making it? Can I ask, has anybody tested root for cannabinoids? Yes, so. What you got, what you got? Sorry, I'm Yes, so there are no cannabinoids in the root. So they've been tested by, oh I'm forgetting his name, it was a poster. Park, I think is his last name, was the first person credited with testing them. It was on a poster abstract presented at a conference, but then John Page's group, or I don't know if it was his group, but he's on the paper anyway, and they tested the precursors and found that there was no Dr.

22:21SpeakerThere's other compounds, so there's fredolin and epifredolin, and these are triterpenoids.

22:27BubblemanDr. Triterpenoids, that's it.

22:30SpeakerDr. Yeah, they have anti-inflammatory activity, and they're also found in other plants, so they've been isolated and studied from other plants, but these compounds in roots haven't been studied. And then there's also these cool alkaloids like cannabis sativine that have been isolated from the roots, specific to cannabis as far as we know. No other research has been done and lots of potential. Do these compounds have anti-inflammatory activity?

22:56SpeakerLong history of use for cannabis roots being used topically for not only skin abrasions but gout. So gout... I think why it would help with gout is because it would calm redness, inflammation. And so Ethan Russo and I are actually, we have a lit review we put together of the cannabis roots. So we're still kind of fishing out where to publish it right now. We submitted it to one place and Unfortunately, I named the title of the piece Cannabis Roots and the people who were reviewing it thought we were talking like back to the roots of cannabis, not the actual rhizomes.

23:35DrDid they bother reading it? That was my question.

23:40SpeakerThey didn't. They didn't. The criticisms are humorous. One reviewer who actually read it loved the paper. Another reviewer who read it but didn't quite understand it at least had some Constructive criticisms. And then there were two other reviewers who you could tell didn't even read the paper because they're mad because I haven't reviewed THC, I haven't reviewed CBD. I'm like, read the first sentence. I'm telling you these compounds are not in the roots.

24:05SpeakerAnd they're like, she's missing all this and she's not talking about this. And I'm just like, oh. So yeah, we just, instead of, you know, usually when you submit a paper for peer review, Thank you so much for joining us.

24:48BubblemanOn a gland in the roots, or if they've just been found inside the actual, where are these terpenes being produced in the plant? If they're on the roots, where? In the actual fiber of the roots? How are these compounds produced?

25:01Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, terpenes are ubiquitous all throughout the plant, right?

25:06BubblemanWell, I'm asking how they're produced. The only terpenes that I knew about the plant were the ones that were being produced inside the vacuoles and the plastids, the organelles that produce the phenols and the terpenes in the first place.

25:18Dr Mark ScialdoneThe isoprene pathway is ubiquitous in most plant cells, and that's the way the terpenes that you're finding...

25:30Dr Mark ScialdoneIn the trichomes, the reason why you're not finding those terpenes down in the roots is because they're not serving the plant any purpose down in the roots. And like Dr. Natasha said, she was talking about Its alkaloids are nitrogen-containing compounds, and it's interesting to notice how free the essential oil of the trichome is from nitrogen-containing compounds. And nitrogen-containing compounds aren't always cleanly volatilized. They sometimes decompose to something called Hoffman degradation.

26:04Dr Mark ScialdoneBut it's like, I think what happens, Mark, is it shows that the cannabinoid biosynthesis, which is, as far as I know from Paul Malberg's work, is happening primarily, the engine of cannabinoid synthesis is happening in the trichome, but there might be some systemic delivery through, again, these other compounds that, you know, Natasha's talking about here, like the nitrogen-containing alkaloids.

26:31BubblemanMight be as in you have papers to show that or this is just a theory?

26:37Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, this is like, this is plant science.

26:42SpeakerWouldn't terpenes be useful to the roots too? There are a lot of insects that attack the roots. So if the terpenes are useful to a plant above ground, they would be useful to a plant below ground.

26:52Dr Mark ScialdoneIt makes sense because down in the roots is where nitrogen fixation happens, and that's one of the reasons why I think some of these nitrogen-containing compounds are down in the roots. And I think if it serves no purpose, like there's no purpose for myrcene to be down in the roots, it would just be bacteria food. So it's secreted up in the trichome where it's serving the plant purpose.

27:15Dr Mark ScialdoneIf it stops serving the plant purpose, there's not going to be any reason for those compounds to be down in there.

27:21BubblemanSo nobody knows whether it's actually produced in a gland in the roots or in the actual fiber.

27:25SpeakerWell, Mark, you look up triterpene and it says any group of terpenes found in a plant gums and resins having unsaturated molecules based on the unit formula, blah, blah, blah. So the gums and the resins are definitely, I think, secreting from the plant in all places.

27:43Dr Mark ScialdoneThey're everywhere, though. They're serving a surface, some kind of purpose. They're everywhere. That's why I say ubiquitous. They're all throughout the plant.

27:54SpeakerI've actually tested some of the roots on the GC, and I'm just sitting here. Tim Powell is from here in Vancouver. He's been testing for Dr. Sharman at the Green Cross, and he's saying that they've had some minute amounts of THC or cannabinoids in roots. And I was wondering if that had to be with strain specifics. Maybe something strange might be able to have. I've seen it in my machine, just little bits.

28:18SpeakerI bet you it's an SOP. But I've never seen it like register on it saying it was what it was, but just by the little marks on the GC, it's showing me that there must be something at that level. Like, you know what, like Mark would know, like at six minutes and 28 seconds, it's showing me a little bloop on my thing saying I'm not seeing it, but it's showing me a little thing there saying that there might be some CBD in some of the roots or something like that.

28:41SpeakerSo my question was, could it be done to the strain or could it be the, you know, there might be some other things that we're looking at and we're At this point, I think it's probably like Marcus just said, an SOP error, something wrong with maybe there's some contamination getting into it if it's low levels. Because in the studies where they measured them, they were looking at precursor compounds in the roots and they didn't find any evidence of that.

29:04SpeakerSo it doesn't seem like the roots have the capabilities to actually make the cannabinoids. So I'll post the papers in the chat below so you guys can check it out.

29:15Etienne FontanThank you. That'd be great. Well, there we go, researchers who are watching. You know, we need some more root research, needless to say, because we know there's got to be beneficials. And I knew from, I mean, when you started discussing it, just talking about the lignin in the plant itself, you know, it goes all throughout. So, I mean, it's, yeah, I could definitely see beneficials, but I could definitely see, just as we see plant-specific, there probably would be root-specific, but...

29:43SpeakerAnd before I forget, sorry, I just want to make sure I say for anyone who's listening and wants to start experimenting with the roots, just be careful because the roots also absorb bad minerals as well as good things. So they're often used for phytoremediation as Marcus can explain a little bit more about because he was involved in some projects with that. But be careful because they can absorb dangerous minerals.

30:09SpeakerSo if you're taking them internally, just be careful. So make sure, like, if you're going to use the roots edibly or internally, make sure they're grown in soil that is free of contaminants.

30:24SpeakerThat's another thing when I did some testing, I mean, I just, roots that I used, right, so who knows, but yeah, totally makes sense.

30:32BubblemanYeah, with resin, SOP would be very, very important in regards to testing something on that level. You would definitely want to make sure that you don't have little invisible resin glands stuck to the material that you're running or for sure resin would show up on your spike. I had one root story. In 1995, when we got our first permit to grow hemp experimentally in Manitoba, just outside of Winnipeg, We had a little five acre field and we'd go visit it and hang out in it.

31:03BubblemanWe were just, you know, as young activists, I can't really tell you how amazing it was to be able to be involved in a time where within one year of becoming a cannabis activist, we had a field of cannabis growing in our province for the first time in over 73 years. It was just the timing. I don't think we did anything Any more special than the people, we just happened to be an important little cog right in that timing that we got blessed.

31:30BubblemanSo we got to visit this field and we, because of it, got to learn a lot about these plants. And one of the things that I did, I'll never forget how much it blew my mind after a great cannabis session in my Volkswagen van that I had parked in the middle of the five acre plot. We had a little sort of Thank you so much for joining us.

32:18BubblemanAnd I followed the tap root. At the end of the tap root was the husk of the seed that the entire plant had come from. Now, I at the time thought this must be the rarest, most never-before-seen thing. But we pulled out a few more plants and were actually surprised at how many of these Zola Tenosha 13s, I think it was 11 and 13, before the 15, that had these little seeds cracked open.

32:46BubblemanHave you seen that before, Sam?

32:48SpeakerCan I, well, go ahead, Sam.

32:49BubblemanAbsolutely. I've seen it a million times.

32:52DrIt's quite, it's quite phenomenal. Like it's something that happens, but I'll tell you. To me, it's like the full circle. Not only that, the other thing I've seen is I saw big giant skunk plants being grown in Orinda and It had rained and a couple branches were out. It wasn't a real greenhouse. It was just like a roof part of a greenhouse. And some of the plant's branches were really big and they were sticking out and they got wet in the rain.

33:22DrAnd I came and visited maybe about a week after the rains and it was still sprinkling and about a hundred seeds had sprouted at the end of this one branch that I had seeded on purpose. So the plants were like, you know, four or five, six inches tall coming out of the branch and talk about full circle, it's the same thing.

33:44BubblemanWow, that's amazing.

33:46SpeakerIn my experience, I've seen it when seeds were planted upside down, and instead of the seed being attached to the leaf when the thing comes up, it actually gets pushed down, but the soil was loose enough so that when it opened, the plant... Thank you for joining us.

34:24SpeakerYes.

34:24BubblemanI just posted a picture the other day showing the resin glands on the first set of true leaves, which is called the epicotyl. And that just covered in resin glands, bulbous, obviously. Did it make any difference what the photo period was to do that? To produce resin glands on a seedling? Yeah. No, they're just always there. I've never not seen them.

34:50DrWell, one time I remember I grew a Chinese variety. This was like 40 years ago. And I planted it really late in the year after all the other cannabis had been harvested. And it got three, four inches tall, flowered, and that was it.

35:12DrInteresting. And so the potent period was too short for it in California. That'll do.

35:21BubblemanThat'll happen sometimes.

35:24SpeakerHey, Mark. Remember that pine tar cush that you cleaned? The pine tar. It was quite amazing. Remember I had that little jar you took some out of in the beginning? I left it sitting out for about a week. Look at the color because you were talking about this in the beginning. Look at, because remember you cleaned this. Look at how it's changed.

35:44BubblemanLooks like it's buttered out a bit, eh?

35:45SpeakerBut it's the color. Now this was the stuff that we took out and then you cleaned it which made...

35:50BubblemanThe stuff that's still white.

35:52SpeakerYeah, you remember this.

35:53BubblemanHere's mine.

35:54SpeakerI just got a little bit here. But this was the beginning stuff that was still clear that you cleaned. So you took this and you cleaned this. That made, of course, this. But I was going to make mention. I took it out of the fridge. I left it on the counter, went away for five days, came back, and that had completely changed the color.

36:10BubblemanDude, room temperature definitely does that. When we were talking earlier about the 10-year-old herb and how like that, I'll tell you, like, Herb, yes, I wouldn't want 10-year-old herb, but some 10-year-old hash. This hash is so tasty, so delicious. It's got the most unique bouquet of any hash I have by far. And it's like, it's marshmallow-y. It's really like, this is...

36:35SpeakerBest way of saying it, this is marshmallowy now, but that was just a period of just a week when it's hot upstairs in my room. So if you leave your jar of hash out, this is probably what's going to happen. That's why I was keeping it in the fridge.

36:46BubblemanI left this one out for 10 years as well, but I have no lid on it. And listen to it. It's as hard as a rock. It's rock hard lava. It's insane.

36:57SpeakerI'm just thinking that when you're talking about that in the beginning about that degradation and then the hash that you have and what I'm seeing, I mean, people see this all the time, but, you know, this is reasons why, guys. And it smells, like, amazing.

37:10BubblemanAnd that was contaminant.

37:12SpeakerExactly. And this is the clean.

37:15BubblemanYeah, well, that's usually how it adds up. This is the clean. Meaning there's almost none left. Scraped down to the bottom. And yeah, then, you know, something like that is the full. This is the 09 cookies that I just sort of haven't hit for a while. Because I've been enjoying this Congo rosin that I got.

37:39SpeakerSo John, we missed you at Cannabis Hemp Conference. I know, and I so wanted to be there, so I just started clicking on Mark's link like late last night to watch it. I know, but tell us about what was happening in Calgary, because you were at a different conference. Calgary Lyft was really quite amazing. It was very, very busy. A lot of people wanted to stop by.

38:01SpeakerThey were asking a lot of questions. People wanted to know more about curing. It was interesting because, of course, we had the Bowman booth beside us. Across from us was Aurora. Thank you for joining us today.

38:30SpeakerThere's an interesting crowd, but overall, I mean, like everything for me, I always love it because the people that we get to meet there and talk to that, of course, mentioned Haas Church and everybody else on the panel and everyone wanted to say hi, couldn't log in, there was no reception there, so we were able to bring you guys to see the event. But overall, like every time I spent Sunday, Monday, just kind of relaxing and soaking up a little bit of Calgary.

38:54SpeakerCame home Tuesday and it was, you know, just kind of going through the cards now and contacting some people to see what people think about doing for 2018 with legalization was a big talk. I think a lot of people want to know what's going to be happening here in Canada because that's what's happening. Did you see the Tokyo Smoke A gentleman's talk? Yes. Oh, I didn't see the talk.

39:19SpeakerI won't ever talk to them, though. Oh. Well, I just want to, before you tell that story, just let everyone know that Alan was doing a talk, but the title was a bit humorous because it was basically the future of branding and cannabis, and they just had their issues with the bong. So anyway, please tell us how your conversation went. Well, I just kind of was, that whole thing about branding, I was asking, you know, what Canada's doing about, you know, not being able to brand cannabis products and stuff, but they're, and they didn't really get into the bong.

39:52SpeakerHe didn't want to talk about the $13,000 bong that was the only bong. You know what? It was a brief little kind of conversation.

39:59BubblemanDonnie P, you should have said one thing to him. You should have said, so how's that working out for you?

40:05SpeakerAnd it was just two guys at a booth. I was like, you know, like, so how's the 13th A&O? They just kind of like, oh, you know, it's...

40:15Etienne FontanMake it this way, it wasn't, it was, the conversation was about as long as this.

40:20SpeakerOkay, and then it changed. So, there wasn't really too much of a conversation. I think there was a lot of backlash on that. A lot of people were saying that the only bong, and people were talking about it, but I didn't get too much into the politics of it, to be honest.

40:37BubblemanIs anyone else puffing today?

40:38Etienne FontanI see you're hitting it. I got to get right in here. I was the first one puffing. I've taken a few because they had all my data uploaded and I'm down three. So I guess I'm on to four now. I got the first bounce.

40:52SpeakerI got the stuff that falls right directly underneath this.

41:03Etienne FontanHey, D, lull in conversation, and since you're sifting there with your hood on, will you announce, please? Bong rip, mother lovers.

41:14BubblemanOh, my gosh. I just had a good-sized bong rip, mother lover. You look like Sir D420. Someone asked if he changed his religion.

41:28SpeakerNo, he's going to put on the rest of his knight uniform.

41:31BubblemanThat's what I was thinking. It doesn't look as much like a burka as much as like he's a, you know, he's a knight. A knight. It's a dust mask.

41:39SpeakerReady to go out and destroy. Because of this thing, it gets up my nose and I get like almost like a sinus infection from the dust. You sneeze a lot. I sneeze a lot. I put the t-shirt around the head and bend your mask up.

41:54Etienne FontanYeah, it does mess with your mucus membrane a bit.

41:59SpeakerYeah. But I'm going to do another bong rip because that first one was so tasty. I need another. So bong rip again, mother lovers.

42:08BubblemanThat's when my old man, not that he was a puffer, but if he liked something and enjoyed it, he'd be like, you know what that tasted like? Another one. And so yeah, cheesy dad joke on this Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there once again. Thanks for making us all. Wow. What a huge.

42:28SpeakerI have to say it out to you. Happy Mother's Day to all the moms and happy Mother's Day. Mom, I know you're watching. Love you.

42:35Etienne FontanSo who here is smoked with their mother? Raise your hand.

42:42Etienne FontanLucky sumbitch. My mom never smoked. She referred me. Now I'm going to just say something, though, and it's Happy Mother's Day.

42:48SpeakerThanks, John, for making me feel like I had to say that. I love my mom. If it wasn't for my mom, I wouldn't be a stoner, and I love her. If it wasn't for my mom, I wouldn't be here. That's a good point, too. Good point, too.

43:02BubblemanNow, I give props to my dad as well. He was involved. Not for quite as many of the variables. He's kind of like the hash maker of the two, whereas mom was the grower. She really had to put up with months and months of variables to produce the proper genetic expression. And I do appreciate her for all of that. I definitely do.

43:20Etienne FontanYou were quite the collab project. I like the one of one that turned out.

43:25BubblemanYeah, it was a good collaboration, you know? And so, yeah, I get to, of course, take my lovely wife and family today for a, I would say, maybe, possibly, I'm thinking the Krasnopolsky in Amsterdam, in Dam Square, does have a pretty swanky buffet, like a couple of times a year they do a big special one. Even just the breakfast buffet is ridiculous. But this one in Vancouver is...

43:55BubblemanRidiculous. They hire high-end chefs. They have all these different like satellite areas where chefs are preparing food. It's the most ridiculous. Giant ice sculptures and chocolate fountains and it will be amazing. So we get to do that after Hash Church today. So I'm pretty excited.

44:14Dr Mark ScialdoneDrop a little hash in the chocolate fountain. Make things interesting.

44:18BubblemanYou know what? It's a real family affair. And although the joke, it reminds me of Breeders Steve's wedding when he passed me a half pound of grapefruit nugs and said, hey, make some brownies for my wedding. And I was like, oh, OK. So I just like gave it to my wife and was like, hey, make some brownies for Steve's wedding. She made these brownies with this half pound of grapefruit that literally destroyed people like three people left on stretchers at his wedding, all of which were Doctors, and not just doctors, but like well-published, kind of famous in their circle doctors.

44:54BubblemanSo when they showed up at this little hospital in Sauble Beach, Ontario, like all the people that were working came to see them because they were like, who's here? Are you kidding me? And so-and-so? And so-and? So the first one to go out was a Jamaican woman, and I'll never forget listening to her out of the corner of my ear saying to the guy walking around with the brownies, Give me two, I'm Jamaican.

45:21BubblemanAnd so she ate two of them while she left on a stretcher, and I'm not exaggerating in any way, shape, or form. Her arms were doing this on the stretcher, and I could hear her as she got wheeled away, she said, I feel like I'm flying. It was the most amazing audio clip of a high person, of an extremely straight high person who basically felt like because they were from Jamaica that they could consume an ungodly amount of cannabis.

45:50BubblemanI don't think anyone really realized, except one guy. And I'll wrap this story up quick with this full circle. One guy did not eat the brownies. He was sitting there quite smug, kind of laughing before it all happened and then looking very confident as everyone started losing their shit. And this was Steve's uncle. And Steve's uncle was a motorcycle cop who one day came home late at night from work And unbeknownst to him, Steve had put his special brownies in the freezer.

46:18BubblemanWell, this guy got home and ate the whole fucking tray. Couldn't move for like two days, had the worst, most nightmarish experience of his life. And basically when those brownies got passed out at that wedding, he was like, no fucking way. So that's how Breeders Steve got married.

46:37SpeakerThat is hilarious. So my mom texted me. But I want to share with you all something short and funny. When I was a little kid, my mom had all these alternative books. One of the alternative books was, of all things, A Child's Garden of Grass. I had the album. So when I was a little boy, I used to sneak this book and read about marijuana because it was like, you know, verboten.

47:02SpeakerAnd it has a chapter in it, The Dangers of Grass. And it has a beautiful little poem that's really short and it says, A child should always say what's true and speak when he is spoken to and behave manly at table, at least as far as he is able. So then you change and you open the chapter. It says, Dangerous effects of grass are... And you find two blank pages with this little bit of text that says the dangerous effects of grass are one, getting busted.

47:32SpeakerAnd then it goes on to the next chapter. Did you have the album?

47:36BubblemanNo, I never heard the live version. So it's only happened in my head. I never saw the book. I never saw the book, but my dad had the album. And man, I'm telling you, I can hear the voices. There's this, there's this, listen, you have to figure it out and find it because there's one scene on that album where it talks about how cannabis like increases, you know, you know, creativity.

48:03BubblemanAnd there's a scene where the guy's singing in the shower and then someone's, you hear just someone open the shower door and go, hey man, you want some of this joint? And so he takes a couple of puffs and then he starts singing again. And the way it's done is so fucking awesome. He starts singing, you know, all of a sudden there's a couple of, a little bit of background music, a lot of background music, backup singers, fucking horn sections.

48:26BubblemanAll of a sudden it's just the most fullest, incredible jam, like James Brown's band. In the background, like it is, it's fucking well done. The Child's Garden.

48:37SpeakerAny chapters in my life that I have read have been more true than that one chapter about the dangerous effects of grass.

48:46BubblemanYou know why more true is because the less said, the easier to achieve full truth.

48:51SpeakerBut let me say this though, funny about this is, this is, this was published in 19, let me, I dare I say 71? Yeah, somewhere in there.

49:02SpeakerSomething like a hell of a long time ago, right? And 1970, okay, same year I was published, basically. And now we know, here we're sitting here, some like 47 years later, and the only dangerous effects of grass really were getting busted. I mean, talk about ahead of their time.

49:22BubblemanYeah. Yeah. Stephen Simmons just sent it to me, the link. I don't know if it's copyrighted, otherwise I'd play a little bit of it. But yes, it is classic. Him singing in the shower, I remember rolling on the ground and laughing. There's another couple of scenes where Buddy's like, how to acquire marijuana. You know, it's like, there's all these different ways. And it's like, it's like trying to like, you steal it from your buddy or whatever, where he's like, hey, look over there.

49:53BubblemanAnd you drop that grass and you, and you cut that grass and split. Like just all the funny voices there. To me, you know, I was very young as well. I got turned on to that album. It was for sure, for sure, for sure, Todd, my first exposure to cannabis. Now, my parents kind of led me to it unwittingly. And I'll tell you a funny story. I was very like curious as a child.

50:18BubblemanAnd so I figured out at a pretty young age, I think it was about 11 or 12. That if you took a battery and you hooked it up to the positive and the negative and then you touch them both to a piece of metal, you could heat that piece of metal up pretty good, particularly if it was a small piece of metal like a bobby pin. So I got into burning bobby pins with these little batteries and I'd heat them up orange hot and be like, oh yeah, burned like 20 or 30 pins.

50:43BubblemanI'm like 12 years old. Then my parents say, hey, Marcus, we need to talk to you. And they pull me down and they start talking to me on the side and they're like, listen. We know what this is for. And I'm like, what is it for? And they're like, this is hash oil. This is hashish and oils. This is what you've been doing. And I'm like, I'd never heard those terms in my life before.

51:04BubblemanMy parents literally let the cat out of the bag accidentally because I was burning pins with a fucking six volt battery. Here's your first rig. It was my first rig, but I didn't know it. I was just like, oh, it's like, here's Bubble Man. Here's Bubble Man as a small child playing with safety pins. You know, so my parents gave it up, man. They gave it up.

51:25BubblemanAnd then I found that album in my dad's collection and was like, what's this? Hashish oil?

51:30SpeakerI would love to find these guys if they're, you know, the dedication is to Harry Anslinger, former head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. If it weren't for him, we wouldn't have a book. That's pretty advanced knowledge. I mean, this is 15 years before Jack published The Emperor's Wear No Clothes. This is before Mel Frank was writing articles in Rolling Stone Magazine. This really, I would love to know where they picked up on so much of this.

51:55SpeakerIs that written by Bruce Margolis? Jack S. Margolis and Cantor's Delicatessen, Hollywood, California, from the authors. This is such a good book.

52:07DrI used to eat at Cantor's every night.

52:09SpeakerI know Cantor's too, right. It just blew my mind to read that, right. Talk about going back to the base. Warning, this is not a good book to hollow out and hide pot in. The whole thing is great. This guy handed this book this morning. It came out of a box. Connoisseur's Hammock of Marijuana, 1971.

52:30BubblemanBusting it out, man.

52:31SpeakerI like that, bro. I have a wonderful, I have a real funny, Lester Grinspoon sent me a second edition of Marijuana Reconsidered. And he said to me, you know, I was going through my books and I found that old one and I wanted you to have it. And I pulled out a first edition of it. And he looked at it and he was on Skype and he could not believe it.

52:50SpeakerHe said he didn't even have one. It was a beautiful little funny.

52:55BubblemanThat's awesome. Who had it? Who had the first edition?

52:58SpeakerI do. I have both. And it has a picture of Lester on the back where he's like Harvard and Dapper. And I could show you actually. Please do. We would love that.

53:08BubblemanWe would love that. We definitely got to get Lester on again to Hash Church. That was so, I mean, I think he's been on twice, but one time I had to split and go see my son play a piano recital. So it was, I think one of the first Hash Churches I wasn't here for. But my screen was open. Yes, peace, vegan demon. Chat's rolling along lovely.

53:31BubblemanTobias Ohm says he has the hardback of that. Yep, yep, yep. I'm still unable to send my emails out. Subcool. Todd McCormick, join the chat.

53:47SpeakerSo I just picked up this book, and I just kind of flipped open. It says, We Eat No Roots in Hell. Look at this page on the back of this book, guys.

53:54BubblemanIt's the Read for Madness poster. Very classic, yeah.

53:57SpeakerLester sent me this black one, which was the second edition, which is very cool. But I happen to have a white first edition, which on the back has a 1969 version of Dr. Grinspoon, which was... His jaw dropped open. He really could have been. Dude, that's almost 50 years ago. Yeah, dude. This is amazing. Yeah. And I was talking to him the other day and he'll join us in a coming Sunday again.

54:25BubblemanReally? Yes.

54:27SpeakerYeah.

54:29BubblemanThat's awesome. I'm, I'm, we got to make it a night, a special, a special episode for sure.

54:37SpeakerRight. Where would medical cannabis be without his work?

54:40BubblemanYeah, maybe, maybe make sure that anyone that wants to come in on the panel has read the book from cover to cover.

54:49BubblemanIt would be a nice discussion to get really into that book and the timeline and the, you know, like he's told some of the stories before about Carl Sagan and, you know, like telling Carl Sagan that maybe he shouldn't be smoking so much weed.

55:02SpeakerWell, you know, what's funny is he went on to write Psychedelics Reconsidered as well. And then he did the compilation storybook, which ATN is in anonymously called, ATN, what's that one called?

55:15Etienne FontanMarijuana and the Forbidden Medicine. Thank you. I'm PTSD in that one.

55:22BubblemanRight. I'm a fan of all of it. I think his story is very powerful. I've always felt that way, that the people who came at this from the loss of life or the close to losing a life just seem to have this incredible, just a different foundation from coming at it from the other perspectives that are available. It's heavy.

55:48Etienne FontanWell, we're proponents, you know, where we realize that it saved our lives and that it could help others. And that was a difficult thing when I went, Dr. Frinspoon reached out to me and asked me if I would, you know, do the, Thank you for joining us today.

56:22Etienne FontanThere weren't spokespeople out there, so I had to become a spokesperson at a certain resolve. My wife at the time was very supportive of me actually putting my effort and information out there because I was working in a hemp industry, but at the same time, I had no idea what... Thank you for joining us.

56:57Etienne FontanIt wasn't just hearsay and conjecture. It was real. It wasn't something that we just made up. It was these are real people. These are real instances and that you could benefit from this. At the same time, we empowered other people to find their own voices, which is only spiraled into what we see before us today, which is just more and more people realizing that these aren't people just sitting around getting high.

57:21Etienne FontanWe've actually proven it, you know, through our own survival. And we just want to see other people benefit from it as well.

57:27BubblemanWhat a powerful panel that would be to see Lester do his, you know, the book, the panel, all the different groups of people that were involved, having some of them on a show years later, talking about the difference of where they were when they got into it and how it came along and how they use cannabis.

57:45SpeakerYou know, a lot of them, he didn't know who they were. They submitted anonymous stories. As well, through reliable people. That makes sense. Interesting.

57:59BubblemanWell, 768 people watching Hash Church Live on this Mother's Day. I hope you guys are going to be treating your moms proper today, or your wives, the mother of your children. Treat them well. These are the ladies in our lives. Bless all the mothers. I'm going to have a bong rip for the moms.

58:16Etienne FontanAbout to say, bong hick for all the moms.

58:18BubblemanBong rip for all the moms. Bong rip with your mom if possible. Yes, bong rip with your mom if possible. What a blessing.

58:28SpeakerSo speaking of doctors writing up like case reports and starting getting these stories out, we've been working to get some case reports out with Crohn's and Colitis. So these gut disorders that are very devastating, a lot of people who get them have to, like up to 70% of patients require Thank you for joining us today.

59:12SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

59:29SpeakerRealiztically, they're living on the toilet. It's just chronically going to the bathroom in chronic pain. So these are very serious conditions. I spoke a little bit about cannabis for gut disorders at the Cannabis Hemp Conference this past weekend. Unfortunately, it was during the time of Hash Church, so yeah, I couldn't pop in last week and Too bad, Marcus, you couldn't have seen my talk. It went really well.

59:53SpeakerAnd we also were part of a medical panel after. It was me, Dr. Zach Walsh, Dr. Ethan Russo, and Dr. Caroline McCollum. So it was about medical cannabis for just Q&A. We had given our questions before so I spoke a little bit about and keep in mind this audience is a lot of newcomer newcomers to the cannabis realm so they're their first time learning about medical cannabis and a lot of them are unsure and haven't really heard about it before so The types of questions that I wanted to talk about were like why would someone want to use topical cannabis so like on their skin and so I talked a little bit about it's not just necessarily for pain but even some skin conditions like inflammatory acne or psoriasis or even itching disorders cannabis is starting to be tested for and explored and the other thing was

1:00:47SpeakerSuppositories. So cannabis administered interactively or vaginally. So I talked a lot about that on the panel. And for a lot of people, that's their first time understanding that cannabis can be administered in a number of different ways. So bringing it back to this case report. So we've put together this Thank you so much for joining us.

1:01:35SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:01:58SpeakerAnd so surgery was his next step. And so he had heard of the success of Colton Turner, who Colton and Wendy have both been on Hash Church before. I think that we did a five-hour session that time. It was a good talk to hear all about what they're doing. So anyway, we found another patient who had followed their protocol. So what they're doing is taking pill forms of cannabis three times a day, equal amount of THC to CBD.

1:02:28SpeakerFor this child, they had found effective dosing with three milligrams of THC to three milligrams of CBD. And I think they took it three to four times a day. And so what's cool about this case report is from the previous data with Crohn's and colitis, it's shown that like Timna Naftali from Israel, they've done some nice studies looking at smoked high THC cannabis, showing it to be effective for pain relief.

1:02:54SpeakerEven helping patients get back to work, helping them with their diarrhea, helping them with their mood, their sleep. So there's some preliminary data really interesting with smoked cannabis. And I'm sure some of you guys saw the new study that came out from the same group, Tim and Naftali. They looked at low-dose cannabidiol, so low-dose CBD given orally, and found that it was not effective for Crohn's and colitis, which to any of the patients who are taking it This was kind of obvious because we can't forget about the THC.

1:03:28SpeakerCBD alone is not going to be good enough for these patients. So what our case report is really cool is we all know high CBD is being used for epilepsy and pediatrics and people are okay with that but THC is still being seen as You know, the bad guy, the scary one, we don't need that. But THC and CBD are completely different compounds, they do completely different things, and they work very well together.

1:03:50SpeakerSo what's really cool is in our case report, we're showing that this child has been using, so from age, I think, 13 to 15, he's been using a one-to-one ratio of THC and CBD orally. And we not only have subjective measures, but we have objective measures. So we have serum levels of an inflammatory marker. We also have stool levels of fecal calprotectin, which is a really nice inflammatory marker.

1:04:16SpeakerAnd so we can show that his consuming cannabis, his inflammatory levels are going, are reducing. And so we have this case report published just on a website at this point right now. It's still pre-print. We're We basically decided to put it out at this point without peer review just to attract other cases. So we've actually got another potential three-year-old that we might add on to the case.

1:04:44SpeakerAnd we're still in talks with, of course, Wendy and Colton if they want to include their data in this case report. Which can obviously strengthen it and help people realize that for pediatric conditions such as inflammatory bowel disease and other inflammatory conditions that are very painful, THC and CBD together can be effective. And so I was invited to speak in June 1st at the University of Calgary to do a continuing medical education session for gastroenterologists to educate them about cannabis for the gut.

1:05:21SpeakerThank you to Selena from the Flower of Life in Kelowna for hooking that up. We had a nice hangout while she was here in Vancouver, her and Stephen and Carolyn. All these connections and people connecting people with legitimate areas to start getting these case reports published, get them out there and help patients, like you said, helping patients feel more confident to speak about how this is working for them.

1:05:52SpeakerAnd so people don't just, it's not just, oh, yeah, it's a story. It's like, no, no, no, look at this data. Look at, we have, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:06:27SpeakerWe, on our case report, we don't have the physician who was actually caring for this patient because the patient hasn't even told their physician that they're taking cannabis because they're living somewhere where they can't take cannabis. So they moved to Colorado. They're under the Compassion Care Act. I'm not sure exactly the correct wording where they can access cannabis. And so back to what you said, Mark, it's three to three.

1:06:54SpeakerSo three THC, three milligrams of THC, three milligrams of CBD taken three times per day. So about nine milligrams of each total.

1:07:02Dr Mark ScialdoneWow. And how did you select that? Did you have another case study that recommended that dosage level? How do you select that?

1:07:11SpeakerWe... I had nothing, our group had nothing to do with that dosing. So they chose this dosing based on Colton Turner and what was successful in his instance. And based on that story alone, this patient's family decided to try it because they were basically at the stage where they were going to get surgery. And they were like, we have nothing to lose. Let's try it. It started working.

1:07:38SpeakerThe patient started gaining weight. Right away, the mood improved. Issues resolved and then when they went back and got their measures, their physician was Had the legitimate like blood markers done at their institution, but doesn't actually know the patient's taking cannabis. So it's like, oh, why are you getting better? So it's still, it's confusing. But anyway, yeah, so this is not my patient or I had nothing to do.

1:08:06SpeakerAll I'm doing is reporting what this patient had been doing on their own. And we submitted this case report to ICRS, so the International Cannabinoid Research Society meeting that's going to be in Montreal in late June. And just found out yesterday our abstract was submitted so I'll get to do a poster presentation on this case report and help hopefully get the word out more about cannabis for pediatric gut disorders.

1:08:33Etienne FontanIt's really frustrating to hear that that's still continuing, that patients are still so intimidated that we can't even tell our physicians. I had to get personal physicians outside of the VA because I had been removed from the VA even though it was my guaranteed only health care. I couldn't discuss it with them because they physically removed them. So I had to find doctors outside. And this is, you know, just before 215 and then after 215.

1:08:59Etienne FontanAnd they don't want you to be out there, you know, because they know that it's going to come back and be reflective onto them. And it could cost them, i.e., their jobs, as well as me, the patient, doctor confidentiality is destroyed, as well as the relationship and the trust, which Thank you so much for joining us.

1:09:35Etienne FontanI mean, as you understand, doctor, I mean, you need that understanding. But the problem is, is that due to the pharmaceutically pushed agenda, you can't because they're being told you have to take these medications. And when you introduce something experimental like this, it costs people their careers. And doctors, how much did you spend getting your doctorate? I mean, that's a lot of money. So you take a great deal of risk on your personal, I mean, look at the doctors, they're both smiling, but it's a great deal of money.

1:10:07Etienne FontanIt's not just a little bit of money. It costs a great deal of money to get your doctorate. And so you're risking paying off that balance by somebody else's medicine that they're using. It ripples that far back.

1:10:19SpeakerWell, and I mean, I'm lucky because as a PhD researcher, so yeah, my research, to get a PhD, my PhD took me seven years. My master's degree took me four years. My undergraduate took me four years. So yes, I've been in school for a long time. As a researcher, though, with a PhD, no one can take that away from me. I don't have to go through a licensing board at this point.

1:10:42SpeakerI don't have to do a yearly relicensing. So I mean, the risk to me is if I'm still on a traditional academic stream and trying to get You know, be good and listen to whatever, you know, not get out of line, not really call anyone out. If you're still trying to do that academic stream, then that's who you're worried about impressing or, you know, pissing off because you might not get a job.

1:11:06SpeakerOr a lot of professors... Thank you for watching.

1:11:27SpeakerThank you. Thank you.

1:11:49SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:12:17SpeakerWe're the people who can help bring other people into this and help bring everyone, like not just researchers and medical doctors but patients so they feel more confident in talking about their personal experiences.

1:12:31Etienne FontanWell, you can bring that knowledge and expertise in a way that we laymen can't. We discuss all this information, but they still say, oh, where's the doctors and where the research? So thank you both doctors for being brave and being out there And taking those risks and actually speaking forward because you're also being peer reviewed among your own people, but at the same time, you're really helping all of us push the cannabis forward because without your type of expertise, we would still be considered those stoners who are just trying to get high.

1:13:07Etienne FontanWhich has always been a frustration because we do, we do get high, but at the same time, we know there's medicinal benefit from this anecdotally from our own experience and our own survival. And we know that you will help push it to realms that we have only hoped to see. You're cresting the horizon and starting to see the questions that we never knew would exist.

1:13:30SpeakerNo, it's wonderful. It's all of us. Natasha is very right. You know, this is why I've had such reverence for guys like Dr. Todd McCorea and Mary Lynn Mathers, the woman that started Patients Out of Time as an actual nurse. And she was a normal board member before she started Patients Out of Time. And the very name of the organization really is the mission statement because a lot of the people they were working with Thank you so much for joining us.

1:14:16SpeakerSo that professionals would understand how much information was already available to them that wasn't being taught to them in the universities, in the classes that they would take in becoming doctors. And they could all the way go through becoming, getting their Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:14:56SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:15:24Speaker1859 to 1972, the Indian Hemp Drugs Commission Report, and he felt it was his moral duty to bring this message to the people.

1:15:34Etienne FontanYou know what's fortuitous, Todd, is that you and I met at Mary Lynn Mathery and Al Burns House in Virginia.

1:15:40SpeakerYes, that's absolutely true. Nice. In 1994, for those of you watching, if you really want to date us.

1:15:49BubblemanWell, there it is a year later. I think I met you in Amsterdam at the Positronics.

1:15:56SpeakerAt Posi. I remember meeting you right away. You looked very different, my friend. But you had the same smile. Posit was like a dream, wasn't it? You had a lot more hair. I'm telling you, I'm telling you.

1:16:13BubblemanThey did this article on me recently in Lyft and they used a picture from like 10 years ago where I'm hanging on the zip line.

1:16:20Etienne FontanYeah, you're the most interesting man in the cannabis world. Congratulations, great article.

1:16:26BubblemanI like the article. Maybe the title was a little bit over exaggerated.

1:16:33Etienne FontanCome on, you are interesting.

1:16:35BubblemanYeah, sure, I'm interesting, but not the most interesting. There's some interesting people in this industry. Holy shit. I find some of the most interesting to be the patient stories myself.

1:16:49Etienne FontanThey hit you right square in the heart and in the gut. I mean, there's no way you can deny it. Once you actually meet these people and you see their afflictions and how they're actually Thank you so much for joining us.

1:17:24BubblemanThis is true. This is true. You were on drugs and drooling, John. I'm definitely like your before and after is definitely a powerful cannabis patient story.

1:17:32SpeakerYou know, I just saw the surgeon last weekend. I've finally been okay for full back to physiotherapy and started going into the gym and lifting weights and stuff. He said my healing was fantastic. He was happy. I was held on a leash. He like he said, don't stop using what I'm using like to everything like Natasha, what you gave me here to the creams and all of the cannabis products I've used over the years is what's gone to where I am today and the plant that wake me up every day to feed.

1:17:58SpeakerSo, you know what, I give it all to the plant and to the people. I mean, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for those particular things in my life. It's really, it's come a long way and the doctor said, you know, keep doing what you're doing, but he says a little bit slower. So, things are good. Thank you.

1:18:18BubblemanAwesome. Glad to hear. Always happy that your health is with you, especially after, well, you know, your health is one thing when you're just taking it for granted, but when it gets taken away from you and you got to fight back to get it, then it's different. Then you appreciate that shit on a different level.

1:18:34SpeakerIt sounds weird, but I'm really glad I went through it as a child. I mean, it was horrible. It was a nightmare, but I'm so glad I have passion, and it's just such a beautiful thing to be close to that. Totally agree. It's a ton of passion.

1:18:49Etienne FontanYeah, I didn't want to go through it either, but I'm thankful I did because of the perspective it gave me as well as, you know, it gives you a humbleness. Once you... Thank you so much.

1:19:31BubblemanAbsolutely, man. I'm just like... Go ahead, Todd.

1:19:34SpeakerWhen I was going to say it's really weird because like a lot of times when I first started being a pod activist and trying to communicate with other people that had cancer, it was really a tough message to tell people that look, you know, something's going to kill you in life anyway, but if... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:20:05SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:20:28BubblemanWell, I'm glad you continued on from that conversation because when you just first said cancer doesn't kill that many people, it reminded me of Sean Spicer saying that nobody used chemical warfare gas during the war.

1:20:41SpeakerIn perspective, if I was born in 1870, I would have been dead by 1872 because no one would have known how to treat me. Luckily, 100 years later, I'm sitting here having a conversation with you at age 46. That is because of Western medicine and the understanding of science and doctors and their practicing of medicine. But, you know, that failed me and we're having a conversation about holistic medicine and cannabis.

1:21:07SpeakerSo who would have thought, you know, it's all full circle. But again, I'm glad I wasn't born in 1870 or I wouldn't have seen, you know, age six.

1:21:17BubblemanSean 8033, who's that old lady making dry sift?

1:21:25Etienne FontanOh, I laughed out loud on that one.

1:21:31SpeakerLet's do a bone rip to that then.

1:21:33Etienne FontanAbsolutely. Is that the bearded lady from the circus?

1:21:37BubblemanIt does from a distance with the wooden shelf and the sort of like the background of the room look like some old Swami Laval photos of like, you know, they're busting out the hash. It's like, oh yeah, getting it done. Ashish, that's another old book. Great one. I'm sure Todd's got that one on his shelf. My shelf's far away. I don't have shit on my shelf. I did find this funny enough from 2008 recently.

1:22:04BubblemanI found this in the bottom of my drawer. This was like a cannabis cup that I won for best product.

1:22:09SpeakerI had one of those too. I had that exact same little thing.

1:22:14BubblemanYeah, this is like a second or a third prize. I think it was second for product, best product. Which was amazing in 2008 for me to get that because you had to know the history of myself and Mila to really understand why that was incredible.

1:22:34SpeakerYeah, that's so old it was hanging on my volcano. Right? I found mine in the bottom of a drawer that I cleaned out the other day. It was hanging on my volcano, to be honest, wherever that is.

1:22:47Etienne FontanYep. Yep. Yeah, Todd, I did see it actually hanging on your volcano the other day.

1:22:54SpeakerI don't think I've seen those things in years. I know they're somewhere in the south. I haven't seen our volcano in a long time. How many of you still use a volcano on the piano? I don't. I just found mine. It was on the bottom shelf down here. I have seen it in a while.

1:23:16BubblemanEvery time I go to CCHQ, there's one on every table and I move it off the table. I just get it right off the table and I put it under the table and then I set up my rig. That being said, I've always had an appreciation for Storrs and Bickel. I think they did it right. They came out of the... They came from a very unique perspective.

1:23:35BubblemanI first met Marcus and his daughter in... Oh, nice. Sam's got Hashish by Suomi Laval.

1:23:42SpeakerI've got that book.

1:23:43BubblemanYeah, me as well. Absolutely. It's a great one. It's really got beautiful images that makes you... Any hashish lover is transported to the time. You can almost feel the... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:24:25Etienne FontanAnd from there I went and I hunted and I found it on eBay. But yeah, it's about the only place, eBay and Amazon, they're very rare to come by and they're not cheap.

1:24:36BubblemanIt even has an extraction chapter. You know? Where does it go, Sam? It goes to Lebanon and it goes to like Kathmandu?

1:24:46DrI think the primary focus is Lebanon.

1:24:50Etienne FontanThey make double zero as well.

1:24:52DrI don't think I've read it in 20 years.

1:24:55BubblemanDoesn't it finish with sadhu photos in Nepal?

1:24:59DrI think you're mixing up with Lawrence Cherniak, but maybe... No, no, there's pictures in there as well, Sam.

1:25:06Etienne FontanYeah, there's pictures at the end there. You can see the... They're way up in the mountains. You get the sadhu butt.

1:25:13BubblemanYou see them from... Yeah, they're standing around in their little loincloths or whatnot, but they're like up in the mountains, dude.

1:25:21Etienne FontanWay up there for very little clothing.

1:25:24BubblemanLike you'd be fucking cold up. Oh, here we go. Todd's got it.

1:25:30DrNo, I see pictures of Nepal.

1:25:34SpeakerNepal, okay. This really is the first picture book of Hashish. I mean, when you look at it, okay, and it's this. Damn, are you in a greenhouse, bro?

1:25:47Etienne FontanThat looks like a forever flowering greenhouse.

1:25:49BubblemanThat's super sweet, dude. Coming into Hash Church in a greenhouse? Priceless!

1:25:57SpeakerI had nowhere else to go. Hey, welcome, Eric. Hey, for everybody watching, Eric is part of Forever Flowering Greenhouses, and light deprivation has been taking over the way we grow in greenhouses all over California. Yeah. Sweet. So thank you for joining us. I love that you have it closed right now. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, I get good Wi-Fi out here and it's kind of like my office away from the office.

1:26:24SpeakerI love it. We were talking about powdery mildew a few weeks back and I wanted to get you on, remember, because you and I were in that very greenhouse having a pretty cool conversation and you had a lot of insight and I just was hoping that you could tell us a little bit about what you're doing and then we could talk a little bit about powdery mildew management because Yeah, I mean, it's huge right now.

1:26:46SpeakerEverybody's pumping out PM. I mean, there's more PM factories than there are clean cannabis factories right now, I think you could say. And, you know, one of the things that I noticed in the, you know, I've been doing this with Forever Flowering for 10 years. The business has been around for 11 years. And in that time, we didn't know everything at the beginning. We didn't really understand the realities of greenhouses being used in the summertime.

1:27:09SpeakerAnd a lot of people get PM and just kind of go, well, that's part of the deal. And we know that's not true. But this day and age with legalization happening the way it's going is that everybody wants to get in here and start growing. And everybody's always, you know, too late or needed to be ready yesterday or whatever it is and with this, you know, everybody in such a hurry and it's so important to get everything going.

1:27:35SpeakerThe last thing I feel like that is looked at or taken care of is the actual farming part. You know everybody knows how to build fences and put up greenhouses and pencil in all these boxes and do all this stuff but when it gets down to planting the plant and making sure that it's clean and you get those flowers in the jar and they can make it to the shelf or make it to the extractor without passing or without you know failing a test is really the challenge these days.

1:28:04Etienne FontanWell, they can build a box, but they just don't know how to properly ventilate it or aerate it and all those realities that are your expertise.

1:28:12SpeakerWell, and one of the things that I've run into is that, you know, and it's, this isn't sliding indoor growing or anything like that. I just use it as a way to look at one thing and look at the other basically is that, you know, indoor growing through prohibition, you know, was really important. And so there was a lot of books written on how to grow cannabis indoors.

1:28:33SpeakerAnd, you know, a lot or if not all of those books are very important for growing cannabis indoors. But when we go into the greenhouse, a lot of people are trying to bring those same parameters with them into the greenhouse. And depending on where you are, it can be tough to, you know, environmentally control a greenhouse like a lot of people imagine and keep those same parameters in.

1:28:56SpeakerAnd let's say the parameters might be at 75 degrees air temp and 35 or something percent humidity is an indoor parameter people would like to shoot for, especially a beginner. And when you get out into the greenhouse and you have somebody that says, you know, I'm in the Emerald Triangle or, you know, even upstate New York for that matter, and they go, I need to keep it 75 degrees in here with 35 percent humidity, it can get really tough.

1:29:22SpeakerAnd it can take the green right out of the greenhouse. Can you just break down what is light depth for a lot of people that don't maybe understand what that is? Well, you know, light depth is this, I guess you could say as a slang term for a photo period. And so light deprivation is more of a term that I think, you know, would be safe to say that, you know, cannabis growers were using for the most part.

1:29:48SpeakerBut when you Google it and look back at light deprivation, a lot of times what you'll run into is the forestry industry was really using it in the mid-90s to cause pine trees and things to go into dormancy. And so it was really heavily used in that industry to create seed, I believe, for the forestry industry. So a lot of the Google research that I've done for light deprivation, you know, has always been in the forestry industry.

1:30:17SpeakerNow, granted, the poinsettias do it to create those poinsettias to turn red. They pull a shade curtain. And so really what we're doing is trying to trick the plants And become Mother Nature. So indoor is really easy to do that by taking a timer and setting the lights to whenever you want them to come on and off. And so if you have a 12 on, 12 off schedule, then a lot of people are doing them on a 7 to 7, let's say.

1:30:42SpeakerAnd so then when you get out here in the outdoor sun or into the greenhouse, you know, because we're using sun grown, the lights behind me are for assisting when there's not enough sun. But if we're just relying on the sun, let's say this summer, When you plant a seed, it takes all summer long. By the time the days start to shorten, we start to have plants flowering because we don't have a timer to hit a switch and turn the sun off when we want to.

1:31:07SpeakerSo what we have are the curtains you see behind me. We can actually choke the sun out by closing the curtains. And so Our timer isn't for the lights. Our timer now is for this curtain that opens and closes. And yeah, we can pick the seven to seven schedule, six to six or whatever. The greenhouse can open up in the middle of the night to breathe. We have back there in the back, you see those black light traps over the fans.

1:31:31SpeakerThose allow you to exchange the air when the blackout is closed. And so, you know, we're really light years ahead of where Light Dep was even when I started with the company or even, In 1992 when I was first introduced to it when I moved up to Humboldt and people were black boxing, they actually took a cardboard box from like Sears or something where you got a washer and dryer or even a refrigerator and they would black box the entire plant.

1:32:01SpeakerSo each plant had its own black box for doing light depth. And now that I go around up to some of the events in Humboldt, I try to talk to some of the old timers that moved up there in the 70s and do a little research. And most of them in the 70s and 80s were doing light depth techniques or black boxing to sex the plants before they brought them out into the field.

1:32:21SpeakerAnd so people have been doing this technique with the sun and black boxing or light depping for a long time, which ultimately is creating a photo period.

1:32:33DrAwesome. In the Netherlands, they've used it since the 70s for chrysanthemums and crops like that.

1:32:42SpeakerYeah, I remember there is chrysanthemums. I think mums. I know poinsettias. There's a few crops that do something different with the shading technique.

1:32:53DrThe first time I tried it was 85, and that's with automated greenhouses with automated darkening systems run by a computer.

1:33:02SpeakerYeah, see, I haven't gotten to you yet. I'm dying to sit and smoke or talk to you for a while because most of the work that I do now is going around and interviewing other people to get a lot of the information and science, I guess, behind this light depth greenhouse thing. And you definitely have some great information or stories, I guarantee it.

1:33:28BubblemanOh, I'm sure he has a few. I'm just looking at the greenhouse that you're in and I want one behind my house.

1:33:35SpeakerYeah, I mean, it's the ultimate backyard.

1:33:38DrI mean, it makes your... Are the side walls, are they solid plastic or woven?

1:33:44SpeakerWe use, I mean, we can do both. I mean, typically we use a woven material. Can you pop it and make it open while you're talking? Yeah, I'm starting to do that right now. I was just closing the door because it was blasting me in the face. You know, Mark, it's funny, but close the door and let it go black and let it, oh, it's opening anyway.

1:34:03SpeakerIt's so awesome. Look at that.

1:34:06Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat is the black curtain material made out of? Is it a reflective material or is it just a plain?

1:34:12SpeakerNo, I prefer black on the inside. A lot of companies or greenhouse companies are using a reflective material on the inside and maybe white on the inside. And there's lots of formulas for blackout material we can use, but I prefer to use black on the inside because it deadens any light leaks that could occur. White will reflect and bounce around a light leak or a pinhole a lot more than black.

1:34:37SpeakerAnd so when we have a light depth greenhouse, whether people are doing it manually or even automated, we still can run into operator error. We can run into malfunctions and things like that. And so black is always going to help you if there should be something that goes wrong. And a lot of people also go, well, I use lights and lights are really reflective. But if you look at the lights I had going a minute ago, they aim down.

1:35:00SpeakerThey don't aim up and then everything bounces back and so realiztically having black on the inside has always been the best policy for my side of it. And how long is the greenhouse that you're in? This one that I'm in is 60 feet long so it's 1,440 square feet. It's a 24 by 60, very popular model.

1:35:24SpeakerTypically, we see 75 to 110 pounds come out of a greenhouse this size up to five times a year. I think that's my jam. I think that's my jam.

1:35:35Etienne FontanCan you disclose what it would cost for a layman to acquire something like that?

1:35:39SpeakerDefinitely, I mean, if you want to talk about this is the deluxe model with everything including touchscreen controller, breathable blackout cloths, the light traps over the exhaust system, mechanical ventilation, automated roll-up sidewalls, automated roof vent, the circulation fans. We're right around $45,000 and that's roughly $29 a square foot and some change.

1:36:04SpeakerWow, that's good. But it doesn't have to be that much. People can say, hey, I don't, you know, maybe I don't want automated sidewalls because I'm going to use hand cranks and roll them up myself.

1:36:13BubblemanBite your tongue. Bite your tongue. That's a great price.

1:36:18SpeakerWell, I'm just saying, there's levels to it and I know people got to work up to it. I have people that go, I can buy the greenhouse this year and next season I'm buying the depth kit. Right. That's cool. I do downplay or downsell a lot of people's stuff because I want them to be successful. And one of the things I ran into as a contractor getting into this, I didn't always work for Forever Flowering as the manager.

1:36:39SpeakerI actually did excavating contractor by trade. So I do site development for the greenhouses. And what I noticed is people would spend a ton of money on property, wells, houses, infrastructure, and all these things. And when they got the keys to the greenhouse or it was like ready to plant type of thing, they couldn't afford dirt. They couldn't afford maybe the fence to protect the plants themselves.

1:37:01SpeakerAnd so like all these great things were happening and then they're left with a wheelbarrow and pennies in their pocket to do shit with. And so my whole thing is is I want people to get what they can get so that they can make something happen but not blow it all and not be able to actually go buy the dirt or buy the stuff to actually grow the plants themselves because too many people are getting the cart before the horse and I know it's an exciting time but when you look at developing a property nowadays there's just a lot to do and so you know maybe this is the goal but we should look at it as You know, buying the greenhouse, doing around, getting ready for, you know, there's stages and levels to do it.

1:37:41SpeakerI always tell people too, why buy the lights in the middle of the summer if you're not going to use them when we're just using this blackout curtain? Why buy a heating system if you're going to, you know, run it in the summertime and you're not going to use any heat? I know a lot of people come to me and go, I need a greenhouse, I need heat, I need lights, and so I always kind of go, well, by the time you get this thing paid for, installed, up and running, are you going to need this, that, or the other, or could we have saved that money until later on in the season when you actually need to buy that stuff and install it?

1:38:12SpeakerPart of me, I guess, is by default from seeing all the disasters out there that I just can't help myself but try to You know, downsell people. Because that is one of the disasters, the PM that you're seeing people grow. The PM is a big issue because like I was saying at the beginning, people try to assume that this is like an indoor grow room and they want to achieve the parameters like an indoor grow.

1:38:37SpeakerAnd so you can really beat yourself up by trying to do that. Not everybody has a greenhouse in areas that all the things that a greenhouse has to offer actually work. One of those things are a wet wall or an evaporative cooling system. The biggest thing that people want to do in a summer greenhouse out in the hot sun, you know, and it's not that it's wrong, don't get me wrong, is to turn on some cooling.

1:39:02SpeakerAnd so when a greenhouse gets hot, the first thought is turn on fans, turn on some cooling, get a dehumidifier, do all this stuff kind of like I would do in an indoor room, maybe even put up shade cloth to try to restrict more light because we're out here in the sun just getting beat up. And so the one biggest mistake people are doing is they're not realizing there's a difference between greenhouses used in the winter and the summer.

1:39:27SpeakerAnd so that's why I like to try to phrase or coin the term winter mode and summer mode. Thank you for watching.

1:39:49SpeakerNobody back in time anywhere that I can find was sitting in the hot sun going, I need a greenhouse. You know, it was really because we're trying to extend the seasons and grow something using the sun, but then it gets cold at night, so you got to have heat. But we're really trying to fight Mother Nature in the wintertime versus going out in the summertime and using this apparatus because it was needed.

1:40:13SpeakerIt was cannabis growers that needed them, one, because the fall rains were coming in and ruining the harvest. It just happened this year, a week before harvest, the rains come, and so everybody's like, we got a harvest! It wasn't even harvest season this year, but when the rains came, it became harvest season. You know, even though it was around that time. So greenhouses were popular for that.

1:40:36SpeakerAnd then it was like, oh, this light depth thing. We can do light depth. This hoop or this structure holds up a tarp, you know, like I might as well do that. And so what we see is a lot of people actually that won't use the greenhouse with a greenhouse skin. Like Washington, there's a lot of pictures of, you see hoops scattered everywhere and all they use the hoops for is the depth cloth and they don't use the greenhouse cover unless the rains come.

1:40:59SpeakerAnd so what's happening is, is that, you know, the greenhouses were invented for wintertime. We're using them in the summer. So what are we doing wrong in the summertime? Well, we're trapping air and it's heating up. And if you trap air and it heats up cannabis, what does cannabis do when it's sick, stressed out or overheated? Anyone? So it comes to disease. It transpires. It transpires, exactly.

1:41:24SpeakerWhat do I do when I get sick, hot, or stressed out? I start to sweat too, you know what I mean? The sweat rolls off my forehead. Cannabis transpires, but we don't see the sweat off of its forehead unless there's a greenhouse cover catching the condensation. And so outdoor plants, the only way we can see condensation is when the plants get droopy in the afternoon. They get really droopy because all that water has come up into the leaves and they're hanging down and the gravity is just holding all that water weight.

1:41:54SpeakerAnd then as the sun intensity dissipates, they start to get, you know, perky like this again. And so that's transpiration for an outdoor plant. And we know that outdoor plants can handle high heat. They can handle pretty intense conditions because they're out there in the sun all the time. And so it's pretty easy to get a outdoor grower to swallow the pill that I'm giving out versus an indoor grower that wants the parameters.

1:42:17SpeakerBut nevertheless, the greenhouses typically are trapping air, they're heating up, and then we're trying to cool them down. And so what I've found the better way to do it is to treat it more like an outdoor grow in the sense that we can actually open the greenhouse up on the sidewalls. It's hard to see these sidewalls actually open up on the greenhouse. And then there's also a ridge vent on the roof of the greenhouse that's opened as well.

1:42:45SpeakerAnd so what that does is it avoids the solar gain in the hot day. It takes away the greenhouse effect. So the greenhouse isn't able to trap air and heat up. And so that's the first step in helping to support the plant. Secondly is the greenhouse cover itself. When I first started back in the day, people used to call and go, I need glass, glass, the more light.

1:43:06SpeakerYou know, it was an indoor thing too. The more light, we need more lights. We got to have all the light we can get. What we found with clear glass, and you can see this in a lot of cut flower farms in Santa Barbara, Oxnard, and all over the place that are even converting to cannabis right now, is that they use a ton of shade cloth all day long.

1:43:23SpeakerSo the glass house is here, the sun comes up, The shade cloth deploys and then the sun goes away and the shade cloth opens again. And so a lot of times the glass houses are also whitewashed in the summertime too. So the problem seems to be is that the summer sun through the glass causes the plants to transpire more than they should. So in order to control that, they're shutting shade cloth down to relieve the plants so they don't transpire as much.

1:43:49SpeakerAnd again, what is the transpiration doing to the greenhouse causing the humidity that everybody's so fearful of? And so what I... Can I say something, Eric? Yeah. When you consider how successful we are growing under lights and doors, it goes to show... And what is the percentage of light per meter we get from a light bulb compared to the sun? It's minuscule. Right. There's nothing as bright as the sun.

1:44:14SpeakerRight. And the reality is, is we do really well. So taking down the amount of light they were giving the plants, starting with such a huge source, that only makes sense as to then why we wouldn't need all this additional cooling and shit, because we wouldn't give the plants the need, we wouldn't be stressing them out like we're doing with all that light. Exactly. It's just too much for them to handle all at one time, especially under the glass.

1:44:42SpeakerThe glass, the clear materials, they tend to magnify the light. So when you get a higher leaf surface temperature, of course the plant is going to do what it was naturally designed to do. It's got a mechanism put in it just like we have. We sweat, the plants sweat. When it gets hot, it's got to do what it's got to do. And so then everybody wants to get rid of the condensation.

1:45:03SpeakerSo then we turn on dehumidifiers. We turn on fans. We do all this stuff to get rid of a result of what the plant is doing because of its situation. Unsupported, so to speak, as I like to call it. And so too much winter mode in the summer mode greenhouse. And so the best bet, in my opinion, and what I found here at East Coast and all over the place, because most people that are growing cannabis also are trying to grow them in a hot, sunny place.

1:45:28SpeakerYou know, there is people with legalization now because of legalization that are growing, you know, wherever now, but historically speaking, people that were using the sun to grow cannabis were in hot, sunny spots all over the place. And so the diffuse cover, what we have on the greenhouse, and this goes back to the first comment, if it's polyweave or polycarbonate, whether it's the rigid stuff or the plastic looking stuff that we have here, it's 100% diffused.

1:45:56SpeakerSo it doesn't transmit as much light as glass. It doesn't allow the sun to come through directly or magnify it. It actually, if you Google light diffusion in greenhouses, there's a lot of studies that have been done and published with vegetables mostly that talk about splitting the light particles in half. So even on a cloudy day, you get more light particles bouncing around here than you would right outside the door of the greenhouse.

1:46:21SpeakerSo when we split light particles in half, We're also scattering infrared, which brings the heat. And then UVB is actually the discoloring and degrading UV of all three of those. And so UVB in particular is blocked out through these covers. And so when you have those three things combined with avoiding the solar gain, cannabis loves it. Thank you for joining us today.

1:47:03SpeakerYou know what I mean? Plants are basically naked, sitting with their feet in the kiddie pool, I like to call it, because their roots are down in the moist soil. So it's nothing like we're experiencing walking around in this greenhouse on a hot summer day. And so using their infrared thermometer, we can actually see how hot the plant is itself. Thank you for watching.

1:47:43SpeakerAnd nine times out of ten, they're trapping too much air. They have too clear of a cover. The other thing people do in their hot summer greenhouses, they put black ground cover on the ground. Black will store solar radiation and even when it cools down, give off heat. And so the other thing that we have is black grow bags or black containers to grow in. Those also attract a ton of heat.

1:48:05SpeakerAnd so what we have is

1:48:09SpeakerWe're working harder, not smarter, and then we're probably defaulting to fans, cooling, dehumidifiers. And so in my version of a greenhouse, and I probably should start walking down there to do it, is that we're opening up the greenhouse, the diffused cover, and then what I do is I use the Tan-Gro bags. They have Tan-Gro bags out there. They even have white ones I just ran into, and I guess it's the original...

1:48:34SpeakerThe guy that invented the smart pots back in the day switched over to this new style that he made and now they're white. And so obviously he knew something and went to the white because leaving plants out in the hot sun with the black wasn't obviously doing the trick.

1:48:49Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so on that notion, doesn't it make sense to put a white skin on the outside of the black interior? So if you have white, Does it do anything for...

1:49:04DrI painted my greenhouse white every year for the last 30 years. And I used a temporary one that as soon as the rain came, it washed it off. Yeah, that whitewash. Yeah, absolutely.

1:49:20SpeakerYeah, I mean, there's a big service around that helicopters go around and spray acres of greenhouses with that whitewash. And if it happens to rain, you got to reapply it again.

1:49:31DrNo, no, it can stand a few rains.

1:49:34SpeakerA few, okay, yeah.

1:49:35DrAnd it comes in all different kinds of opaqueness. You can get white that will last a year no matter how much it gets rained on. Oh, no kidding. On ones that are really lightweight and everything in between.

1:49:47SpeakerYeah, see, we don't, I mean, there's not a lot of those options out here because there's not so much glass and a lot of them have so much bird shit and dust on them now that I don't think they need the whitewash because the cut flower farmers were running on 4% margins and they're basically all going belly up because Columbia grows cut flowers for much cheaper and sends them here and so a lot of them are converting to cannabis and they're finding out the realities of what Todd was bringing up is that when a plant is in Thank you for joining us.

1:50:29SpeakerThey're transpiring. It's not like the moisture has gone away or anything. And so this whole sea of green and the plants are starting to warm up because too much sun is coming in. And a lot of the Dutch growers that are trying to grow cannabis down there, I think closing the shade cloth too late because the plants are already heating up and they're already transpiring. And so we have these, you know, these hot, humid boxes everywhere that are just pumping out tons of PM because the plants are...

1:50:58DrWhen you pull up the sidewalls, does that expose the crop to pests?

1:51:05SpeakerNo, no, the crops are only susceptible to pests, it seems to us, from what we've seen, when the plants are in abolic stress. So when we have people that are enclosing these swamp boxes, as I call it, with plants that are actually having yellow fan leaves because they're going through nutrient lockout, they're actually attracting mold pests.

1:51:26DrI appreciate your ideas on this, but I guarantee you that cannabis gets pests, even if it's beautiful and healthy.

1:51:34SpeakerSo far what we've run into is that they haven't had a problem. People are doing good IPMs and stuff, but I see more pests and disease in greenhouses that are run wrong than I do in the ones that are going right. Well, I would think that would be a natural, though, because if you run in a greenhouse, right, you have people that are obviously paying attention to detail.

1:51:55SpeakerBut, you know, disasters happen nonetheless. It's also everything is in life. How do you deal with them? That really matters. You know, almost anything can happen to somebody and they can overcome it if they deal with it well.

1:52:10DrI guarantee you that if you use a strong IPM program, you can absolutely control cannabis pests without the slightest doubt. But I guarantee that if you don't control it, it doesn't matter how healthy your plants are, they will find you.

1:52:30Etienne FontanEric, I have a question. What is the smallest greenhouse you guys make and what's the largest you can make?

1:52:37SpeakerThe smallest we make is a simple hoop house that's actually 16 feet wide and 12 feet long. I actually have it sitting in the back. Let's see. Right there. It's a little hoop right up there. It's hard to see probably, but... That's a little 16 by 12 right there on the landing. And so you could probably put six, nice six plants in there. But we don't really have a lot of hobby backyard style greenhouses.

1:53:06SpeakerThe 16 by 12 I created once Prop 64 passed because the smallest greenhouse we really sold was a 16 by 24. And so I just decided to pop up three ribs because we were using it as a booth for, you know, little cups and events and things. And so I thought, wow, this would be good little backyard one. So. You know, it works okay, but people are in neighborhoods and there's smell and there's security issues and things like that.

1:53:33SpeakerAnd so I know when I teach at Oaksterdam, the greenhouse class, we put up one of those little secure grow deals that are popular in Oakland and have the chain link fence that attaches to it and stuff like that. And the biggest we make, I mean, you can make, as you guys might know, and some of these, you know, I mean, the gutter connected structures can go on for days.

1:53:54SpeakerIt just... It depends on how much property you have. And then these single style greenhouses like I'm in right here, these gothics, the biggest we make of this one is a 30 by 144. So depending on what model of greenhouse, you know, what budget, we try to work with people and try to figure it out. A lot of people are getting permits these days too. And so there's tons of red tape and holdups and people are like, ah, I got to get growing, but I don't have my permit.

1:54:20SpeakerAnd I don't mean a permit to grow. I mean the building permit, maybe they don't have, Thank you for joining us.

1:54:55SpeakerKind of like the old days, while they're waiting for the master plan to be developed.

1:55:01BubblemanSo here's a question. You say you've got a 30-foot wide and a 24-foot wide. What's the, on those particular greenhouses that you're in, what's the smallest width?

1:55:14SpeakerYou do them like, This one's a 24. Yeah, no, 24 in this model. So the smallest automated in this model is a 24 by 24. And then we do have another model that's an A-frame greenhouse, and we can do an 18 by 24, which is an automated greenhouse. And so those are the small ones. Other than that, if you get one of those 16 foot wide hoops and you're fairly strong, somebody can pull a tarp over it manually, no problem.

1:55:40SpeakerBut yeah, automated greenhouses are kind of tough. I mean, we've come across a lot of the stuff that's already out there nowadays with the awning motors and the exterior depths and a lot of things. But we just have always tried to stick with stuff that's, you know, that really works and is going to last. And, you know, it's not really high end, it's just high quality. Do you use Sumpy Motors?

1:56:03SpeakerWe actually used to. It's funny. The first company that was really willing to work with us because I didn't start the company. Jonathan Valdman started the company. And the first company that was willing to work with him to create a light-dub greenhouse was Cravo, and they're from Ontario, Canada. And so they didn't really necessarily want their name on anything. They're really busy with their own projects. And so they have, they're originally a shade company.

1:56:30SpeakerAnd so they use all Somfy motors in their roll-up sides and then Ritter motors on the roof. And so nowadays we don't use any Somfy motors unless we're working with a Cravo house. It's all Ritter gear motors.

1:56:44DrYeah, well, we used to use those small Sompies because we could build little tiny units, you know, just big enough for like 100 plants within a bigger greenhouse that also had motors, but they weren't using the Sompie motors. They were using professional greenhouse drives.

1:57:03BubblemanSo that was the greenhouse inception.

1:57:06SpeakerYeah, no, I know. I mean, that's the funny thing. Yeah, it would be good to chat. There's all kinds of different things that could be talked about or I have questions about from the history of greenhouses and cannabis and stuff because most of our stuff is out here on the West Coast where it's really hot and sunny and so it's really easy to... We used to use one that was number one woven.

1:57:30DrWe checked all the different brands of darkening curtains. And most of them were woven, but not breathable. You couldn't breathe through them.

1:57:40SpeakerRight, yeah. This breathable stuff, you could barely, I mean, it would suffocate you if you wrapped it around your head.

1:57:46DrOh, no, we could breathe easily. And it was two-layer. It was black on the inside, like you're talking about, and reflected mylar on the outside to get rid of heat.

1:57:59SpeakerYeah, and you know what? When I use my little heat gun right here and I shoot the mylar versus the white, the white's actually cooler by surface temp, so that's why I skip the mylar. Are you shooting the outside?

1:58:10DrBecause the mylar is, okay, first there's a layer of black, which is what's facing the plants, and the mylar is above that.

1:58:20SpeakerYeah, we used to do that formula back in the day until I started playing with this more. Yeah, but doesn't that mean that the heat is not going into the greenhouse? Well, in this hot summer day, I don't want heat coming into the greenhouse.

1:58:34DrThat's what I'm saying. The mylar is reflecting.

1:58:36SpeakerWhy is it cooler? Why it's cooler? It reflects. If it's cooler, then why it's doing better than the mylar?

1:58:45Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, that's just a way of putting a reflective surface over your black skin, which is facing the plants. Correct. We remove a lot of that by radiant heat because it's never going to get into the greenhouse. I think that's what... Sam's trying to say.

1:59:02SpeakerYeah, a lot of the technology people talk about is using the greenhouses primarily in the wintertime. And so for us in our 10 years, everybody went to Costa Rica in the winter. And so everything that we focus on and deal with is all based on summertime growing and heat. And so that's why I say that this thing, when I shoot grow bags, ground cover, gravel, blackout covers, all that stuff, this thing tells me more than my thermostat in the greenhouse because then I can actually shoot.

1:59:33DrThey don't build greenhouses for commercial purposes smaller than 200,000 square feet. And they don't use them. They all use them 24-7. There's no downtime ever.

1:59:48SpeakerYeah, and that's the difference between cannabis growers on the West Coast historically and other places is that they only use the greenhouses to hide the cannabis, protect it from the fall, and then Light Dep was the new, oh, let's do Light Dep. And so with all those three things coming into play, we're still having people out in the hot sun and even in big greenhouses. I went to a 68,000 square footer in Carpinteria recently and it was cooking in there and they were plumping out tons of PM and mold and the Dutch guy was like, I know how to control humidity.

2:00:23SpeakerAnd I was like, you do? So, I mean, people are using them all the time, but it doesn't mean that they're using them smarter. And I see a lot of people working harder, and it has to do with just simple, you know, using the right colors and things in the summer versus using all these other things in the winter. Because they don't all translate in the summertime to trap air and try to cool things that you're on the coast.

2:00:50SpeakerAnd so it already is humid there, so wet walls don't even work. And in the case of a plant that sweats, we can keep the plant dry and cool just by moving the air and keeping it fresh. You know, like if I overheat, I stand in front of one of these fans right here and it doesn't have a cooling system on it, but that air blowing across my forehead cools me down and starts to dry the sweat.

2:01:12SpeakerAnd the cannabis seems to react the same way.

2:01:14DrI can honestly say if I didn't spray the outside of my greenhouse white every year, That the plants would be cooked and all the tips would get burnt and die.

2:01:29SpeakerDid you have a shade system in there too or just relied on the whitewash? What's that? Did you have a shade system in there too or just relied on the whitewash?

2:01:37DrNo, I had a shade system and a darkening system, but I didn't need the shade system when I used white stuff. How come you didn't?

2:01:47SpeakerWhy didn't you just use the shade system? What's that? How come you didn't just use the shade system instead of the whitewash?

2:01:54DrBecause I found the whitewash easier and simpler, and it's much more dependable than shade cloth. A shade cloth motor can jam, it can break, it can whatever.

2:02:06SpeakerRight, right, right.

2:02:07DrJust like darkening motors. There is no such thing as a 100% dependable darkening system.

2:02:12SpeakerNo, I agree.

2:02:13DrIt's just a problem that hasn't happened yet.

2:02:16SpeakerNo, all these things are mechanical and there's operators and there's tons of errors that can happen. I agree.

2:02:22DrI've used them for 30 years. I understand.

2:02:25SpeakerYeah, yeah, it's a delicate situation because the people that also want these greenhouses or get into these greenhouses just want to grow. And there is a little bit of level of being kind of like a little bit of a mechanic or, you know, you got to know what to look for and if things need to be adjusted or lubricated or readjusted. Controllers sometimes their limit switches.

2:02:47DrI had grown in greenhouses for more than a decade before I moved to the Netherlands. And then I grew for another 30 years here.

2:02:58SpeakerWhere did you grow before you moved to the Netherlands? Santa Cruz, California. Santa Cruz. Yeah, that's a pretty, yeah, that's a great spot. It's pretty, it's pretty forgiving in the wintertime too.

2:03:09DrWell, it depends where you are because there's up in the hills and there's close to the ocean. But the end effect of it is even with high humidity levels, I never had problems with mold or anything else. And I never had pest or disease problems because I grew healthy plants and I'm a very, very integrated plant. Thank you for watching.

2:03:47SpeakerPeople have been using Eagle 20 so much and not everybody knew that Eagle 20 was bad. A lot of people imagined that it was just this other product to use. And I had somebody on Instagram, because I call a lot of people out on Instagram, not in a rude way, but anytime I see a variegated leaf that's half yellow and half green, I ask people if they've been using any Eagle 20 because a lot of times it's in an OG cut or some OG related material and nine times out of ten they say, yeah, I used to use it or yeah, I thought it was okay.

2:04:21DrWell, I've never used any pesticide of any kind except for as a tiny dip on little tiny clones that before I would transport them into my greenhouse.

2:04:34SpeakerYeah, no, nowadays it's part of the deal is to break out whatever these things are and hope that they're, and people just don't want to know that they're banned. I mean. And a lot of it has to do with just the fact that, you know, most people haven't been through or heard even your story that you whitewashed it every summer, like the stuff that you're talking about.

2:04:54DrOh, no, every spring.

2:04:56SpeakerEvery spring, every spring, but when it got hot, when the sun was more intense, when solar gain was easily achieved.

2:05:03DrIt never got more than 5, 10 degrees hotter than outside.

2:05:09SpeakerRight, right. And see, I'm trying to just avoid solar gain altogether because if we avoid solar gain in the greenhouse and then I shoot the plants with the leaf surface of this thing, the leaf surface of the plant is always cooler than the air temperature. And what I found is if I can keep the plants cooler than the outside air temperature or inside air temperature, because again, when the roof vents open and the sides are open, the temperature is the same inside as outside.

2:05:36SpeakerAnd so when I shoot the leaf surface, it's cooler. And so when I go shoot the same...

2:05:41DrMy greenhouse, whenever there was sun out, it was always at least 5 or 10 degrees hotter, no matter what.

2:05:47SpeakerYeah, that's the greenhouse effect. It's trapping air and it's doing what it's supposed to do. But like I said, out here in the summertime, most people can't even, when it's 100 degrees, they don't want it to be 105.

2:06:00Dr Mark ScialdoneShould I ask a question? Is the floor there a slab of concrete?

2:06:05SpeakerNo, slabs aren't a structural component of the greenhouse. They're handy and helpful, and they can be a little bit costly, again, when people are developing their greenhouses.

2:06:18Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. So is the floor just the earth, just the ground?

2:06:21SpeakerI prefer to put four to six inches of crushed gravel. It compacts almost like concrete. And water drains through it.

2:06:30Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I was just going to ask you to talk about the floor and how that impacts the environment of the room because it would just appear that you're sort of making the connection with Mother Nature's biome, which is where the plant evolved, right? The plant evolved under the sun in Mother Nature's biome, which is the ground. I grow in the ground.

2:06:53DrI always have organic biodynamic plants.

2:06:57Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, yeah. We've talked about that on church before. So are these greenhouse systems basically designed for sort of roots in the ground?

2:07:10SpeakerWell, you know, all the growers that come to us, everybody's trying to raise the bar, set the bar, be the guy or whatever. And so it's amazing all the different stuff going on. It's hard to find, you know, the one common thread, I guess you could say that everybody's doing is growing in containers these days. Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:07:52DrGrow all my plants 10, 15 feet tall. I don't like short dogs.

2:07:57SpeakerYeah, well that also was part of plant count back in the day and now that everybody's legalization is with square footage licenses, everybody wants to grow small, you know, thousands and thousands of little plants because just like me and you, when we get older, we start to fall apart and disease can set in or whatever. The same happens the bigger and the older a cannabis plant seems to get, the more Thank you for joining us.

2:08:43DrThat is absolutely true. I guess the real question is, you know, are we helping people or what?

2:08:53SpeakerWait a minute, though, because, you know, I got in trouble for 4,000 plants in one house in 1997 because I was basically growing Sea of Green because at Posse we were learning and it was from that guy, Rob Clark. That a lot of little plants growing in a less period of time is less likely to get susceptible to all of these problems. So all we did is take our little clones, minimize our veg time and then figure out how big they had to be to get to the amount of grams we wanted to get.

2:09:25SpeakerRemember at Posi, we were teaching people to put 100 little baby plants under 1,000 watts or 1,200 watts of light, two 600s. How many square meters was that, Todd? Two square meters, 100 little plants. Two square meters, 100 little plants, 10 grams a plant, you got a kilo. And that week they called it D Kilo Champion and both 600s went into one ballast box that had a built-in timer.

2:09:53DrWe did really high counts too and you do get more cannabis but the manicures hate you.

2:10:00SpeakerBut all we were doing is this. We were trying to do what Mother Nature would do, which was turn it into a bush over the course of one or two months. We were acting as the little bush maker, and we were just putting it flat and then popping it at the point we needed to pop it in order to get 10 grams or half ounce or whatever.

2:10:18SpeakerYou know, depending on how many plants you wanted to space per meter would determine how many grams you could get per plant. But their little method of 100 little plants in two square meters always got you about a kilo because it's easy to get 10 grams off one plant.

2:10:35DrSo that's 50 plants a square meter?

2:10:39SpeakerYes, sir. With almost zero pre-growth.

2:10:42DrYeah, I tried 70 and 100 one time and I did get more cannabis, but man, was it, you know, squiggly.

2:10:55SpeakerNo, it's just little popsicle stick buds. And you know what? I mean, I watched, you know, I watched my friend Tom take NL5 by Hayes, seeds he got from Neville with zero days pre-grow and pop 88 plants under two 600 watt lights and pull down about 16 grams per plant. He got over 1,400 grams from two 600-watt lights with zero days pre-grow, and it was from NL5 by Hayes.

2:11:22SpeakerHe only averaged 16 grams a plant, but yet you take 16 and you multiply it by 88, suddenly he's got a pretty damn good harvest considering he only had two lights up. Well, he had four, but there was two on the other side. Give me a big giant plant with no leaf.

2:11:41BubblemanI'll just take all the resin off of said plant and you can have everything. There you go. I agree.

2:11:46SpeakerWell, going back to the floor of the greenhouse or people using or what they're doing, one of the main things is overwatering. You know, regardless of what floor we have in the greenhouse, people tend to overwater because there's also this sensation or this need to feed the plants to make them grow faster and grow bigger and all these things. And so a lot of people are in this, it's kind of like a hydro thing where they grow in grow bags with cocoa and they're constantly feeding and watering.

2:12:17SpeakerSo they're watering twice a day, you know, feeding every single day and i walk into these greenhouses and it's really just wet everywhere and so they're getting by in the summertime but then i get the phone call in september october and uh you know when the weather changes and the mold in the pm instantly just boom overnight it's just they're cutting down entire rows rather than harvesting their Thank you for watching.

2:13:04SpeakerThank you for watching.

2:13:14SpeakerOkay, are you or you know what I mean? And so there's a lot of people I've known. This isn't a bad thing. I'm happy that everybody's gardening and growing. All I'm trying to say is that if you weren't a green thumb before, don't be surprised if you're not now. And there's some things to learn. And it's tough to figure out who the right person to listen to probably is as well.

2:13:34SpeakerI mean, I was just at that little fair last week and I was telling Todd about the other day and they got some lively speakers out there these days.

2:13:43BubblemanI told people that ask me all the time in regards to how to do this and how to do that and where's the best source of information. I always say, you know, the best source of information is in the mistakes that you're too afraid to make. So if you could just go out and make your own mistakes, I swear to you, there is where in lies the magic that you will find along your journey.

2:14:04BubblemanGo make your mistakes. Don't be so...

2:14:06SpeakerUnfortunately, those mistakes aren't in the like little closet or a couple light rooms like a lot of us used to deal with. We're like, oh, we fucked up. Let's, you know, pull the... That's what they need to do.

2:14:17BubblemanThey need to go to a smaller level and go make mistakes. You are absolutely right. They don't have time.

2:14:23SpeakerYeah, and I try to tell people when they come to buy the big greenhouse, in order to design a heating system, let's say, or a couple things, I can ask a couple questions and know right away if they're getting into something they should be getting into. And what I end up trying to do even is downsell or downsell a greenhouse where people, hey, you should go pull tarps for two months.

2:14:46SpeakerLike get a little hoop, get a ladder, pull some tarps before you get this automated, you know, with all these things because you can come in here and touch and push all the buttons and set all the things you want. But if you haven't got out there and pulled some tarps and seen what the plants really do and be with them and, you know, really be the master for the time being and it's only two months.

2:15:07SpeakerYou know, a couple thousand bucks for two months and you learn all kinds of shit, just like if you got a small room. But everybody wants to scale up and lose 500 grand or more at a time and point fingers and have you sign NDAs and everything's proprietary and nobody wants to share information and you're just like, what the fuck? Well, can I ask you something that's kind of then, you know, going unspoken, it's cost of production.

2:15:30SpeakerI mean, because while we're sitting here asking you, well, you know, this is some of the things that hit me when I was up there with you because I had the same exact reaction Mark had when I saw your greenhouse was, wow, I want one. And, you know, suddenly I'm sure we all feel that when you walk in. I actually would love to because I would love one to grow stuff other than cannabis because it's just that cool.

2:15:52SpeakerYeah, yeah. But my question is this, is, you know, at what point does the cost of production get figured into this? Like, dare I ask you, How many, you know, if I'm being crass, let me know. But how many pounds can somebody expect to get out of, you said that was 60 by 40? This is a 24 by 60 and people should be getting anywhere from 75 on the minimum up to 110 out of a greenhouse like this.

2:16:17BubblemanBut that's a vegetative yield. So how much resin should they get out of the greenhouse? Those are the numbers I want to hear.

2:16:24SpeakerWe could do that, Matt. Of course we could do that, Matt. I could do that, Matt. I just need a minute. But hold on. I want to know the number of trichomes. I can't do that math. I can't do that math. But can you go back to what the low side of the harvest was? Did you say 60? 75. So in our, the way we see it is a thousand square feet should be getting at least 50 pounds per harvest.

2:16:51SpeakerAnd so this greenhouse is 1440 on the square feet. So that's why I say 75 would be the minimum in this greenhouse. Hmm.

2:17:00BubblemanI'm already trying to consider how much of rock I'm going to have to blast out to fit that 24 foot wide unit in my backyard. Cause that's just like right behind my house with the ocean view over the house.

2:17:13SpeakerOh man. Hell in ya. Oh, that would be epic. With the drone. Yeah. That would be epic.

2:17:22BubblemanIt's always been a dream. I have a federal license here in Canada, so I'm legally allowed federally to grow 100 plants, 99 plants. Wow. Yeah.

2:17:32SpeakerThis is the perfect size for that, I think. Right? Yeah. And then also benches.

2:17:40BubblemanWell, that's why I'm trying to figure out the resin content because I'm not allowed to have 75 pounds. However, I'm allowed to have 10 pounds, just under 5,000 grams, but it can be hash or concentrate. So all I really need to get out of the greenhouse is my 5,000 grams of concentrate and boom, I'm good.

2:18:00SpeakerWell, technically, Mark, at 70 grams per pound, 75 pounds comes in at just over 5,000 grams of concentrate. At 15%, at a 15% return of 15% of its oil.

2:18:13BubblemanDude, that's, I kind of had a feeling, I'm not going to lie. And I had a feeling.

2:18:19SpeakerYeah, and in the greenhouse like this, you could essentially do a sea of green, but you could pull out, you know, be feeding it a quarter at a time. So you can put in, you know, a certain amount of plants and then a couple weeks later put in another batch. So that way you're constantly harvesting. I have people in Santa Cruz that have a cement pad and they have their grow bags on casters.

2:18:43SpeakerAnd they're constantly moving them down the way and so they're always harvesting every week out of one end of the greenhouse and feeding it at the other end. And so you could probably keep your plant numbers up and your harvest within your range in something like that.

2:18:59BubblemanI would also have to do the giant pots or something because it's all bedrock. Even putting good soil up there, it would just make more sense to have them in compartmentalized pots to grow in.

2:19:13SpeakerYeah. I mean, that's the way it's gone for Light Dep. People that do Light Dep want to have five harvests a year, and the only way it seems to do that is in a container, because when we do the earth beds or even raised beds, for that matter, people are bringing in whatever size plants, but they're letting them, you know, take two weeks to get out of root shock, maybe even veg them a little more, then they flower them, then they got to come in and harvest, pull all the old roots out, amend the soil, replant.

2:19:39SpeakerAnd so they're looking at three harvests per year versus a container gardener that looks at this as the flowering house only, pulling five harvests a year out of this.

2:19:49BubblemanWell, my license here doesn't allow me to sell any of the final products, so there would be no reason for me to do a secondary or a third harvest, but I'd love the idea.

2:19:58SpeakerSo you could just do the greenhouse.

2:19:59BubblemanI could do the greenhouse and then I could grow food like all the lettuce and salads that my wife loves to eat and peppers and cucumbers that my kids eat like cookies. I would love to be able to grow all of those things right behind my house. Sorry, go ahead, Todd.

2:20:15SpeakerNo, no, I didn't mean to cut you off, but in a sense, it's easy to set up what I would call, and I do it indoors, a perpetual harvest system where you have your flower rooms because, you know, when I first saw outdoor growers like suddenly see in light depth as an epiphany, I just chuckled and it's like, yeah, I do that in a bedroom. You know, but the reality is, is just once you have this thing set up on a photo period of like seven in the morning to seven at night, you can just augment it with lights that come on in the morning, go off during the midday, come back on at night, and then you can just feed this thing forevermore.

2:20:49SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:21:15SpeakerBecause now you're just going to feed it with your own genetics and the flowers just come out the back.

2:21:20BubblemanAnd you can even have moving tables that just bumped. Got to have some food in there too though. Pangea is asking to ask about positive pressure greenhouse setup.

2:21:31SpeakerYeah, positive pressure is fine too, but what we're dealing with is fans that are on pretty much all the time. I mean, negative pressure is what I have in this greenhouse right here. And what negative pressure is, is pretty typical for most greenhouses. When you're using mechanical ventilation, mechanical ventilation means exhaust fans and intake shutters. And so the greenhouse has to be sealed up nice and tight.

2:21:55SpeakerFor mechanical ventilation to truly work really good. And so when the greenhouse is sealed up nice and tight and the exhaust fans at that end of the greenhouse turn on, the only entry point for air is the louvers right here at the end of the greenhouse that I'm sitting on. And then we have what's called an air exchange. The National Greenhouse Manufacturers Association standard says that we need to have one air exchange per minute.

2:22:21SpeakerSo that's moving a shitload of air out of a given greenhouse at a time. And so when you have negative pressure going on in a greenhouse, that means that if you're outside of the greenhouse and let's say there's a pinprick or you open the door for that matter, you can feel the air rushing in. So a lot of people would say that are big positive pressure pushers as well is that if there's a little bug crawling around the outside of the greenhouse and it walks across the roof and gets near that hole or that opening, it sucks the bug right inside.

2:22:53SpeakerAnd that could be very true. So with positive pressure, Thank you for joining us today.

2:23:16SpeakerSo what that is, is the positive pressure duct coming through. So all the air is coming in through that sock and it's blowing air into the greenhouse. So if you were to go back to that bug on the outside of the greenhouse coming up on that same little hole, the bug wouldn't be able to get in because all the air is blowing out, so to speak. And so positive pressure is popular right now, and a lot of people are talking about it and into it because bugs and pests are a problem.

2:23:43SpeakerBut like I said, not everybody's been listening to what we're laying down. We've been around 11 years, but we've been dealing with cannabis in the summer only, whereas all the other greenhouse companies might have been around for 40 years. Um, and not dealing with cannabis, but that's what everybody, a lot of people are listening to or going to. So, I mean, you know, I have a lot of people that are also looking for affordability.

2:24:06SpeakerSo they go to other greenhouse companies and sure, the other greenhouse companies will talk you out of a ridge vent, will talk you out of the better plastic and get the cheap, clear material, whatever it is to save a buck, sell the greenhouse and get you going. And where I'll stop and go, no, that isn't going to do your plants right. You're going to run into this problem.

2:24:23SpeakerWe're really trying to show people what's happening with, Thank you for joining us today.

2:24:51SpeakerSo what you can do in Pueblo, Colorado and wet walls and cooling and environments in a greenhouse is a lot different than the people in upstate New York, people in the Emerald Triangle, Oregon, or even the Pacific Northwest for that matter. What we do in the Pacific Northwest Thank you for watching.

2:25:37SpeakerThis standard parameter everywhere. You have to really look out for what's going on. And luckily for cannabis, it just wants to be out in the nice sunny day and not overheated and not all this bullshit over it. And if you support it like I talked about by not trapping too much air and letting it overheat, by not using the wrong colors for the grow bags in the ground.

2:25:59SpeakerI've seen ground cover, black ground cover up to 180 degrees on an 87 degree day. So I mean,

2:26:05SpeakerWe know that it creates a lot of heat where the white ground covers only 99 degrees. I didn't have to use any electricity to cool that surface down. I didn't have to cool any air to do that. And so I see the same thing with this little tool right here in the greenhouses pointing at the plants themselves. And so if I can keep the plants cooler, we know that we don't have to cool the air in order to do that.

2:26:30SpeakerAnd unfortunately, too many people out there just want to do all this stuff and think that cannabis is really dangerous. It's all hard, finicky, and, you know, it takes all this, you know, stuff, and it actually just needs support. And if you support it, it'll grow like a weed. You know, I've seen my friends in Holland take their, you know, Grodin and their recirculatory systems outside into their greenhouses.

2:26:53SpeakerAnd set up like that as if it were an indoor room and have really great results. And I'm thinking about it now and thinking, well, with water chillers and the fact that they were basically pumping through a hydroton and grodan, which you really can't overwater for those watching, you know, because it's always going to maintain about 20% oxygen. So they were able to really keep their root base cool and controlled.

2:27:20SpeakerAnd probably, you know, didn't have the transpiration that you're talking about because in a way they weren't locked into black pots or anything like that. That was actually heating up their root base and causing their plant to not have their feet in the kiddie pool as you kind of used as a metaphor, which I think is a great metaphor. But in that sense, it doesn't really work so well.

2:27:40SpeakerIn a soil solution, because you've got to dump the water in and then wait for it to naturally evaporate. But in a hydroponic solution, you're actually able to, if you see a problem, maybe chill your water a little bit more to try to compensate for the increase in temperature on the outside. So, you know, maybe more people might be looking at now that it's legal into doing more plants in these, you know, in-grow day and in controlled situations.

2:28:06SpeakerAnd, you know, mitigating these problems right from jump. Yeah, I mean, it all comes down to plant temp and air temp. And everybody pays attention to air temp. And if we paid more attention to plant temp, you'd see more results or more actual helpful information. Because, again, we're walking around in shoes and socks. You know, some of these greenhouses are encouraging solar gain. With too clear of a cover, the plants get more sun, so they're actually warmer than the air temperature.

2:28:34SpeakerBut nobody knows that because we're not pointing and shooting at the plants. When I teach at Oaksterdam, they have a little grow room, a little, I mean, a grow tent. You know, it's like a three by five, it's a tiny grow tent. And it's got one of these little tiny fans in there, you know, buzzing. And there's only like three or four plants in there. And there's usually one plant that's like dancing in the wind like this.

2:28:57SpeakerAnd the other plants are standing still. And so even when I'm teaching the class, I'll point and shoot at those indoor plants. And the plant that's dancing around like this is always three to five degrees cooler than the plant that's sitting still receiving no air at all. And so my whole thing is, is yeah, you can keep the water cool, but they're usually with good soil. They're in cool soil as it is.

2:29:19SpeakerIf you're hydroponic, you're, you know, keeping the water cool in that regard. A lot of people are going to these capillary mats that I've noticed now too, and those hold or keep the floor wet, but they're also very black. So when they cycle off, you know, that water gets immensely hot and then it cycles back on. And so again, the color is, What's doing that? You know, a long time ago in Positronics, when you walked by one of our rooms, it was a show and grow.

2:29:48SpeakerWe actually, the way they built the air circulation was by taking large PVC pipes and going up to the ceiling with fans in them, pointing down. And then they shot down to about three inch PVC pipes and they had holes drilled in them all along the base. And this thing sat like it was like a little skeleton inside of their grow room. And it blew the warm air that was up top down to the roots and kept the air circulating really well.

2:30:18SpeakerAnd anyone who went to positronics in 95, 94, 96 would have seen what I'm talking about. But it was a really great way of avoiding exactly what you're saying happening. Yeah, and that's the thing. Now they have vertical solution. Yeah, they have vertical airflow fans now and a lot of different things to stir this air up and to move it around. But a lot of that has to do with people that are trapping air and storing energy because again, greenhouses are supposed to trap air, store energy, and heat things up.

2:30:47SpeakerAnd so a lot of the science and a lot of the things that people have or go for or from have to do with that winter mode thing. Thank you for joining us today.

2:31:21SpeakerUsing this tool to prove that those surfaces are cooler because if you go shoot the outside surfaces, the gravel, the plants, the grow bags, they're all going to be way warmer and we know for a fact those plants are transpiring because A, the condensation inside of a greenhouse is a dead giveaway and B, if you walk through the threshold of a door of a greenhouse and it feels warmer than the outside temp, Then we know we have solar gain in some of these issues that we're trying to relieve.

2:31:48SpeakerAnd most people's default, like I was saying at the beginning, is to turn on fans to do all these other things. And mine is just take away the greenhouse effect, use the proper greenhouse cover, get a few circulation fans in here, and the plants are going to do great. The white ground cover and the tan grow bags for sure. And I mean, I've had people come to me and just, I mean, it's kind of funny.

2:32:08SpeakerThey're like, it changed my life. I'm like, what? You know, like... Thank you for joining us.

2:32:31SpeakerThe funny thing is, is like my whole suggested leaf surface temp is anything cooler than the outside air temp. On a hot summer day, when it's 95, it'd be good to see the leaves down to 85. You know, if it's 105, I've seen plant leaves down to 87 and in the 90s, And what happens is, like I was saying, at that moment, then the circulation fans on back here are making the plants dance a little bit in that fresh air, and they can even cool more.

2:33:00SpeakerI've seen plants three to five degrees cooler that are moving around versus the plants that are standing still. And so I just want to make sure that we're creating an environment for plants So that they're not overheating and causing themselves to sweat. And usually they do just fine in those conditions. And so in the wintertime, we also look at leaf surface temp and soil temp. Ideal soil temps in the wintertime would be 69 to 70 degrees because anything below 55 degrees, we don't have nutrient exchange.

2:33:33SpeakerAnd so people in the wintertime also do not pay attention to the soil temp and the plant temp. And so when I get the greenhouse up to 80 degrees in the wintertime, when it's 30 degrees, let's say outside, the leaf surface temp will also be 75 to 80. But the minute I turn the heater off, Thanks for watching.

2:34:16SpeakerI had people in the wintertime have 30 degree air temp outside, 69 to 70 degree soil temps, and then the air temp inside the greenhouse was 55 and they did really well. Yeah, most people that have cold soil temps, the plants just grow really larfy and don't grow dense buds, but it's great for washing because a lot of people are like, it's super trikey. It's really, you know, terpy.

2:34:44SpeakerSo in the wintertime, you definitely don't get the weight, but you'll get the terps. Unless you boost that soil temp. And how do you do that? Well, there's radiant heating systems. It's good to work with a greenhouse company that does those professionally, not some concrete guy that's just going to lay some tubes in the ground because there is a heated calculated loss. And if you don't do that right, you could be spending a lot of money on natural gas or propane.

2:35:09SpeakerAnd so heating the root zone is really important. One way or the other, we have lots of solutions for that. We don't have to get into that right now. But nevertheless, Eric, Eric doesn't heat up. What's that?

2:35:21Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay. That's a good subject. Hey, I'm enjoying this. It's great.

2:35:26SpeakerOkay. So, I mean, I have people that don't know how they're going to grow in this industry. And so they come to me and they go, I want a greenhouse. And then I, and they go, well, I need heating. And I go, how are you going to grow? And that's where the conversation stops. I literally try to get investors and growers to come here and look at their greenhouse options because investors are writing the checks, growers are trying to figure out what they want, and I can talk to both of them at the same time and they can figure it out.

2:35:50SpeakerI've had a few arguments here too because when we get to the heating question, the investor guy's like, come on, grower guy, like, what the fuck are we doing? And so when the grower doesn't really know, they start looking at me going, yeah, you know, 60, you know, 30 gallon grow bags, right, Eric? And I'm like, You know, yeah, I guess. I mean, I don't know. It's really not my problem, you know.

2:36:11SpeakerAnd so when people decide how they're going to grow, then we can design the heating system. So historically, it's been in 30-gallon grow bags just on the ground. And so we can lay little rubber tubes on the ground that actually run heat inside, hot water through them. And you can put up to 150 gallon grow bag right on top. And then you can also heat the benches.

2:36:33SpeakerSo if you're doing benches, you can heat a bench instead of the ground. And so there's lots of ways to do that. And part of the problem is, is people come to me and go, oh, well, I'm going to actually Grow on the ground now and then I'm going to go on benches later. And the problem is that if you put the heat in the floor now and then you go to benches, you're going to wish you had the heat on the benches.

2:36:57SpeakerSo I'll even tell people a lot of times if it's springtime, like I was saying, and you're going to get your greenhouse up for the summer, why don't you pull off a couple harvests and come back to me in September once you get your established your grow method or how you're going to do it. And then we can design the heating system. Because a lot of times with these partnerships and people getting into it, Everything changes so rapidly that it's good to know that you have a little time and maybe an option to grow some plants and create a harvest before you got to buy XYZ.

2:37:34SpeakerI totally appreciate you talking to us. You know, when I was up there with you, Eric, I was so blown away to see, honestly, the setups you guys had. And, you know, just for the record, when you were showing us the other greenhouse, it was the lighter color. You're not using black fabric pots. You're using actually light tan and even lighter colors than that. And it's to deflect the heat from the root base, correct?

2:37:56SpeakerIt is, yeah, totally. I've seen with a black grow bag 15 to 20 degree higher surface temps than the tan. And so when we're trying to save water, we talk about evaporation and plant transpiration. You know, those two things, you know, aren't really to make the plant grow. Evaporating water is just going away. Transpiration water is keeping the plant cool and it's going into the atmosphere. And so at the end of the day, you know, we're saving water.

2:38:24SpeakerWe're supporting the plant. We're creating a photosynthetic availability rather than a survival stage that, you know, they go through. And a lot of people would say, well, we use shade cloth to help, you know, mitigate some of that. And shade cloth a lot of time restricts light. And so the test they've done in Mexico with tomatoes especially is that the more light that they restrict, the more leaves the tomatoes grow rather than fruit.

2:38:49SpeakerThe more sun exposure or light that they get, the more sets of fruit that they have. And so they did a lot of testing in particular with these greenhouse covers that we're using where they would open the roof and let the natural sun come in and then close the roof at the heat of the day or when the UV was its most intense. Thank you for watching.

2:39:24SpeakerIt might seem like, you know, what the nursery industry taught us to do, but what I'm seeing is that it's restricting light, even though it might give a relief to the plant for a short amount of time, but most people that are using shade cloths on cannabis greenhouses these days are using it on the exterior, and it's also the color black. And so then it absorbs a ton of heat.

2:39:49SpeakerAnd so one of the things I'm running into is I see people that also get a double wall inflated greenhouse poly. So what there is is a squirrel cage inside the greenhouse fan blowing air into the two layers. So it's great for the wintertime because you're making an insulated barrier, so to speak. Thank you for watching.

2:40:23SpeakerAnd so then you have a greenhouse inside that maybe you're even running cool air into that's actually feeding that fan that's going into that hot dead zone in between the two layers. And then people put up shade cloth also, and the shade cloth is restricting a bunch of light, but it's black, so it's encouraging a bunch of solar gain. All along, you know, I saw somebody with even black ground cover and the black plastic pots, and I'm like, why are you cooling the air in order to You know, helped relieve the plants of all this surface tension that's being created by all the colors you chose when all you really needed to do was, you know, get a single layer for the summertime, spread the light uniformly, and maybe use some white ground cover and tan grow bags.

2:41:09SpeakerI mean, it would save a ton of electricity because, again, that cooling system is just mitigating surface temps, you know, and I've already figured out how to cool the surface temps without using any cooling systems. So, I mean, I don't know. I just, I see a lot of people chasing their tail and working really hard. And then the end of the season, the plants are yellow as can be.

2:41:31SpeakerAnd everybody goes, it's the fade. And I'm like, it's the what?

2:41:36BubblemanSpending more time trying to fix their own mistakes.

2:41:41SpeakerAnd the plants are just using that water, doing what they're supposed to do. The dehumidifiers are collecting it and the fans and all this stuff. And then the plants are just going, my God, am I done yet? Here's my yellow leaf. Here's my thrip traps. But you know what? This is what's going to happen though when you start getting in the cost of production and the water and the energy.

2:42:02SpeakerIt's all expensive. And if people don't learn how to use it wisely, they're going to be just jacking up the cost of their product and eating into their base, their bottom line. And they'll have to learn how to adjust or their competitors most definitely will. Well, and all these things that are happening, there's causing the PM in the mold though. So they're already losing. You know what I mean?

2:42:23SpeakerIt's already a done deal before they got started and they all spend a ton of money to figure it out and they hire a bunch of people too to come help fix the problem. And then they make everybody sign NDAs and fucking keep it proprietary and then none of us can go around and actually help Thanks for joining us. We'll be right back.

2:43:07SpeakerThank you for joining us.

2:43:23SpeakerBut but to be in awe of all the things they shared and like, you know, I really recommend I mean, honestly, I hope you do a book. I hope you do more of what because if you just encapsulated what it is you lay out, it's so informative and so helpful. I mean, you're telling people how to make How many pounds per square foot and just if they listened and they applied it, they would be having great results.

2:43:46SpeakerSo I think what you're doing is fantastic. You're enabling a lot of people to be self-reliant and I can love you and I applaud you for it. I really do. I appreciate you for saying that and I appreciate everybody on this panel and Hash Church and what it's been going on for a while. I try to watch it all the time and everybody's a big hero here, pioneers, and so I'm lucky to be on here and share the info that I do have and it's taken a lot of time to kind of put it all together.

2:44:13SpeakerBut most of the information, if not all of it, is for free and it's out there. And like you said, I'm not trying to sell a greenhouse as much as I'm trying to sell success. And if I can sell a greenhouse out of the deal, that would be great because that's what I really am supposed to be doing. But I love cannabis. I can't help it. And I don't want it to be tainted and sprayed and fucked up.

2:44:36SpeakerIt's got to be good. And people need to know that there is ways out there to do that. Right. And this is another thing.

2:44:45DrI would say one of the number one ways is use resistant varieties. Everybody's using varieties that are not resistant.

2:44:54SpeakerWell, and would you say or would anybody agree that some of the breeding nowadays because of the influx of, you know, the industry and brands and everybody's got seeds and whatever, I mean, it's hard to necessarily find great seeds or things that maybe haven't been bred through previous uses of Eagle 20 because people didn't know. You know, I have people that have popping beans from two years old that are having variegated leaves going, oh yeah, I remember using Eagle 20 back in the day.

2:45:22SpeakerAnd so the flowers don't test positive, but the concentrates do.

2:45:26DrI got variegated leaves in different populations all the time. I never used Eagle 20.

2:45:33SpeakerAnd I believe that to be true, but the people that we call out nowadays are using it, and especially the people that are using the OG or the Kush back before there were seeds for it, were heavily using Eagle 20, and the variegated leaves were like in every mom and cut like at the time. It was pretty staggering. So then when I asked the question, just because I'm asking or I DM somebody, they end up going, yeah, we used it.

2:45:56SpeakerAnd a lot of it has to do with a Kush type of strain, nothing else. Well, no, there are a lot of plants that are circulated in cuttings right now that are susceptible. And just for the sake of the conversation, it's both systemic as well as it is environmental. A plant that doesn't have it can become into contact with it environmentally and can pick it up. It has to be what happens every time.

2:46:20SpeakerOnce it picks it up, you can try to wipe it out. Unfortunately, it can get below the level of getting wiped up and it can carry on to its offspring. That is where it's problematic.

2:46:31DrPlants which, I mean, like populations imported from Afghanistan, for example, sometimes three quarters of them would have milled out. I mean, just unbelievable. Yet hazes planted right next to them didn't have one single bit of milled out.

2:46:49SpeakerWell, now that people can start growing equatorial varieties for longer periods of time because they don't have to worry about their crops getting cut down, you know, a lot of what happened, a lot of what dictated growing in the past was how fast it would grow and how heavy it would yield because it was just such a risk. And now that the risk is somewhat, if not altogether gone, I think people can start focusing on plants to take Thank you for watching.

2:47:39SpeakerYou know, so I think good greenhouse management has to come into the conversation because if we don't have this kind of preventive maintenance, you're always going to be chasing your tail and not really enjoying the fruits of what something like that could bear.

2:47:51DrIf enough people grow enough narrow leaf drug varieties, eventually there will be clones that for people who don't mind the, like you say, longer flowering period of varieties that basically do never, never get powdery mildew.

2:48:09SpeakerThere already are. I think part of the issue is that everybody's, like Eric said, everybody's growing the cushions and the OGs, which have...

2:48:17DrI agree with what you're saying.

2:48:18SpeakerYeah, there's a terpene profile that's susceptible to molds and mildews. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a tough one. I mean, that's that's been the thing is everybody wants that gas in Southern California. And so it's turned into this frenzy. But the plant itself has never been a real stable plant. And so then people turn it in and into, you know, probably was when Todd had it back at the mansion or something.

2:48:41SpeakerBut I mean, yeah, I didn't have PM in the 90s. That's what I mean. It didn't start with it. Well, no, no, and that's why I say that it had to pick it up along the way. But once it picked it up, it was perpetuated into the cuttings and further cuttings. What I didn't realize is the tissue culture, you can actually take some pretty sick plants and do a tissue culture and save that plant and get rid of the, or, you know, I don't know.

2:49:08DrYou can clean up the disease in the plants, but... Thank you for watching.

2:49:36SpeakerHuh, that's interesting. Hey, I got an idea, Eric. Would you come on again and maybe even take questions from people in the chat and stuff? Oh, yeah, no, I'll come on again and take questions. I'm down. Yeah, that'd be great. Well, it's springtime, and a lot of people are into filling up their greenhouses, so I think that it is just kind of like a cool time. It's topical.

2:49:59SpeakerWould you guys mind if I plug an event we're having here?

2:50:03BubblemanOf course not, dude. In fact, people wanted to know both your website, your IG, and then any event that you have going on. Of course, let us know about it.

2:50:13SpeakerOkay, cool. I appreciate you guys letting me do that. May 30th here at Forever Flowering Greenhouses. In this greenhouse, we set up over 100 chairs, a big screen. And we have Elaine Ingham coming. She's the pioneer, kind of a compost tea, I guess you could say. And so she's going to be speaking. And then we also have her advisor. I call her her disciple or her protege or whatever is this guy, Scott.

2:50:42SpeakerAnd he's been spending three years studying cannabis in no-till and organic production in Colorado, Arizona, all over. And so when people say the soil food web, that's actually Elaine Ingham's company or term. And so a lot of people are dropping the microbe soil food web no-till or they got biology compost tea thing. Thank you for watching.

2:51:29BubblemanVery cool.

2:51:30SpeakerSo yeah, May 30th, if you go to Instagram, all one word, Forever Flowering Greenhouses is my Instagram handle. You can go to the link in my bio for tickets. We do have food trucks on site. It's an all-day event. It's very interactive. Elaine speaking, Scott speaking, and he's basically using three years of data he's collected in this mathematical equation on the Soil Food Web and letting us all know Thank you for watching.

2:52:20SpeakerAnd so everybody that thinks they're into the teas and making biology and the soil food web are really far off. And he tells us all why. And Elaine's there to kind of quantify all of it, back him up. You know, we can go over the numbers, the graphs, all the stuff. But, you know, it's tough to learn some of that stuff. What happens to the microbes when you unplug the tea tank and they separate like oil and water?

2:52:48SpeakerA lot of people start watering at the same plant every time and finish with the same plant every time. I mean, there's all these little nuances that go on under the soil just as much as topside. And so when I talked today, I talked about all the little nuances and things that go on with the greenhouses that are pretty obvious that we can pay attention to that we just maybe hadn't been enlightened about.

2:53:11SpeakerAnd now Scott is doing the same thing underground with the Soil Food Web. And then we do a little vibing at the end talking about the greenhouses topside and below. And it's a really great event. And I think anybody that is into compost tea, maybe never seen Elaine Ingham or any of that kind of stuff, Should come to the event. We still have, I think, you know, it's over half sold out.

2:53:34SpeakerWe did it a couple, a month over a month ago and we sold out over a hundred tickets. So the community really, really wants this info. And that's why we're having the second one so that people have a chance to come to it. And our website is lightdepth.com. So Forever Flowering Greenhouses is the Instagram, lightdep.com. And the next event we will be at is the NCIA in Oakland.

2:53:58SpeakerAnd also the same week, I'll be flying over to New York City for the Cannabis World Business Congress or whatever it's called.

2:54:05BubblemanNice. I can't wait till we're filming the video of you flying up here and building one of those in my backyard.

2:54:10SpeakerThat will be awesome. Are you going to ever make it down here? They won't let me in Canada.

2:54:18BubblemanI know. They won't let me in down there. Now, we can both do something called a waiver and get a waiver, and it makes it quite easy as long as you're not like a terrorist or something. You're generally allowed in. Even with cannabis crimes, they let people go both ways. But I just got a little freaked out. I thought it was all going to be good. It seemed like America was all like, woohoo.

2:54:38BubblemanAnd then all of a sudden, Jeff Sessions is announcing like, no, no, we're going to hammer people down. I'm just like, why? I don't want to hear that. Yeah. I don't want to hear that.

2:54:51SpeakerWell, maybe things will change by December. And if you guys, if there's any way, we set up a nice greenhouse at the Emerald Cup. We have it as a booth. It's a private lounge, a VIP lounge, so to speak. And so if there would be any way to do a live hash church at the Emerald Cup sometime, I'd be happy to give you guys three hours at the site in the booth back there to do that.

2:55:15SpeakerIt would be really cool to get All you guys in there, at least for a sesh, if not a church. Oh, that'd be beautiful. Hash Church starts at 9 a.m., and the Emerald Cup usually opens up at, like, I think on Sunday 11. Yeah, we could go in there. I got, yeah, I have catered food, drinks, coffee, the whole deal. We can puff, like, it's great.

2:55:35BubblemanCan we get in a little early with the VIP Hash Church panelists?

2:55:39SpeakerDefinitely, no, definitely. What's his name? What, Tim Blake, I think? No, I'm just kidding. Tim will, Tim. Yeah, Tim's been on Ash Church. He's fantastic. He'll be in the greenhouse with us hanging out. That would be ideal. Yeah, well, that would be something we could do. When is the next, that's not until December, right? Yeah, that's not until December, but that's definitely a good time to get everybody together.

2:55:59SpeakerWe all have to urge them to start doing a spring event because that is just too great of a community like coming together, and it kind of needs to happen twice a year at least. Well, they're doing a cannabis country fair now. And that's in July. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's starting this year. Tim's putting it on. It's called the Cannabis Country Fair. They actually are going to have cannabis entries and judging and the whole deal.

2:56:26SpeakerAnd it's at the hog farm property where the old picnic used to be. Well, let's all support that because that's fantastic.

2:56:34BubblemanWell, listen, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for an early impeachment so I could potentially get up there by December. We'll get an early impeachment. We'll see. Maybe just get rid of this whole lot of nut bar psychopath sociopathic maniacs that are currently pretending to run the country. I don't know. I could just be in fake news, but I don't think I am. Anyway, guys, it's been a blessing to have Eric on here.

2:57:01BubblemanReally great knowledge and information you dropped today, bro. It'll be great to have you back to answer some questions. D420K, whipping up the medicine all show long. That was wicked, dude. Fucking awesome, bro. Thanks for coming in, Chimera. Finishing it off with a dab. Skunk Man Sam, upside down, you know. We got Indra in the house who didn't say anything, but he had a good chat on the side, so thank you for coming in.

2:57:28BubblemanMark Sheldon, to pronounce your name properly, not Scal, it's not Scal. Thank you, Mark. It's Sheldon.

2:57:37SpeakerDr. Mark Sheldon. Dr. Mark Sheldon, in fact.

2:57:41BubblemanAnd of course, Todd McCormick, thank you so much, buddy, for bringing Eric in today. And Johnny B who left, Dr. Natasha who left, and anyone that I've forgotten, of course, all the people viewing, the 800 plus people that watched live today and the 8 to 10,000 that will watch in the upcoming weeks. Thank you everybody for watching Hash Church. Now go tell your mom you love her.

2:58:03BubblemanI'm going to go spend some time with my family. Happy Mother's Day, everybody. Peace out.