Technical Troubleshooting and Hash Industry Updates

0:00BubblemanGet ready here for the live stream. It says we're streaming now, so I'm going to let in the folks. Let's see, meeting is now streaming on YouTube. Let's invite these people in. Boom, boom, boom. And what I'd like to say is welcome everyone to Hash Church 3.0 episode. Oh, let me shut my own mic off here. Episode 14 is what I wanted to say before I got that shut off.

0:28BubblemanI just have to take the live link real quick. If my computer wants to let me, I will copy and paste that into the old link so everyone knows where we are. Here we go. Do a couple of those. And wonderful. Welcome, everybody. Welcome, Wade and Etienne and Mr. Skunk Man Sam. Quick on it this morning, are you? Guten Morgen. I can't hear. Is it me? Can everyone hear Etienne?

0:56BubblemanCan you hear me? Can you hear me now?

0:57WadeYes. Yes, yes, yes. More troubleshooting for the bubble man.

1:02BubblemanOh, man. All right. Yeah. It's been a fun morning of it. I suspect it's me. So let me just get my video settings sorted up here and get my audio settings changed. I hear you now, Etienne. Lima Charlie. All right. Lima Lima Charlie. Welcome. Welcome, guys. Make sure all is well here. It's a lot to do when you're trying to kind of do the troubleshooting. Welcome everyone into the room.

1:28BubblemanGet it recording on YouTube. Get it recording on my computer so I can put it onto a podcast. I'm just happy my computer keyboard is working because at 8.45 this morning, it was not. So. I ended up jumping in the car, driving down to the Lion's Bay store and getting some AA batteries. I think I probably paid $97 for two of them, but that's okay as long as we're here and we're up and running.

1:55BubblemanSo. That's it. Let's see what we got going on in the room. Yeah, welcome, Wade. How are you doing this morning?

2:02WadeI'm good. I'm good. I've been doing lots of work at the computer here already, and on Friday and Saturday, I made time to go outside and work on the farm. Yeah, no, that got my hands dirty, broke a sweat. It was good. Sure didn't feel like January, though.

2:25BubblemanThat's what's up. Yeah. That's that West Coast living. January doesn't always feel like January on the West Coast.

2:36WadeAnd you get a bit of that ourselves.

2:40BubblemanPretty good, you know, we've, my company made some pretty monstrous announcements recently. We got a couple of provinces signed up for Embark to order our products. So that's like, that's like not a company, that's a province. That would be like hooking up a state. Like, oh, I've got, I've got, you know, California now, or I've got Washington now. So we signed up both and British Columbia. So we're excited about that.

3:05BubblemanAnd those announcements were made on all my social medias. Yes, bong rip to Bubble Man's keyboard, says Effie Raw Medic. We got over 100 people in the room right now, 166 actually, watching at 9.03 a.m. And I'm hoping all the email invitation folks aren't thinking that we're not going because I did have a little bit of troubles this morning. We'll see if they're all getting the email to come in.

3:37BubblemanOh yeah, I sent it to them for sure. And you would have gotten that email again as well, Wade. So you're good to go.

3:44WadeI did. I saw it a couple of minutes before nine. But Tian, you're coughing quite a bit this morning. Are you all right?

3:53Etienne FontanOh, I just woke up and rolled out of bed with my first joint. So yeah, it's a little cold here in the base. So yeah, there's a little congestion in the air. It's just a little bit of normal. But no, no, no, just my morning coffee.

4:07WadeGood deal.

4:10BubblemanExcellent. How you doing, Johnny B? Arms up. Johnny B's got the arms up.

4:16SpeakerI'm always good. It's a good morning. Got to get the dab in. And I got this new little tool called the Turbometer. Have you seen this thing? I'm going to do this.

4:28BubblemanI have, yeah. Mike West has been using one of those for a couple of years. I was using one just the other day, in fact.

4:34SpeakerI got one for Christmas present from the great neighbors. Nice. And I got it, like, I guess, of course, the mail came late. But, I mean, cold starting. And then I got this thing.

4:48BubblemanI'm in the other boat, Johnny. I've been using temp tech pretty religiously, but now I'm just cold starting because I find that when I forget my temp tech, I'm too annoyed. I'm like, oh man, I'm not going to get that perfect dab and this, that, and the other thing. And they definitely are different rips to heat your banger up to like that 900 degrees, let it settle down and drop that dab in is very different from a cold start.

5:10BubblemanBut Cold Start, like, you know, anything, you can get the skills going and towards, you know, I've been doing it for the last three or four days. And I'm sure I'll end up going back to my temp tech eventually. But it's nice that we have these options. Back and forth we go. Back and forth we go.

5:26SpeakerHave you tried the new Pup Coat?

5:32BubblemanI did try the new Puffco Peak and I was impressed. You're very quiet again, Sam. We got to get you a little bit louder. But yeah, the Puffco Peak, the new one, I guess it's the Puffco Peak Pro. Is that correct? Yeah, that thing rips. That thing like rips. And don't get me wrong. I also tried the sort of middle version because you had the Puffco. Then you had companies create a kit for the Puffco with a different heater, a different coil, all different pieces that you could put in.

6:00BubblemanAnd that increased the quality of the Puffco. But now Puffco Pro is released. And yeah, I was impressed with it anyway. I don't own one, but it surprised me.

6:12Etienne FontanYeah, I may try. I burned through four Puffco Peaks. So I kind of gave up on that instant, you know, because I hear people all the time. I don't know if you've heard of Clubhouse, but it's a new social media platform with live discussions. And a lot of people get on there and they start talking about their Puffco Peaks. But, you know, I'll still stick with my mothership and my DNA.

6:38Etienne FontanThanks. That actually still works. So, well, right.

6:42Collin PalmerI really like the Puffco Peak Pro. It's one of my cherished. I put this thing through the paces and tried to find what could possibly be wrong with it. And the atomizer alone is such an improvement. And then the temperatures, like you can actually use like full melt in this device and get it to the right temperature. And then you can actually hit plus 10 degrees. If you start really, really low, you can kind of bump up 10 plus degrees at a time.

7:12Collin PalmerIt's really cool. And then I got this little kind of recycler for it, which is really great. I mean, it's Puffco kind of nailed it with this one in a way that I was not expecting. It's much better build quality.

7:26SpeakerTo me, the most amazing thing about the Puffco Peak Pro was actually that With your iPhone or any other smartphone, you can program the temperature so that a single hit starts low and ends high.

7:45BubblemanYep. Another great part. That's like a, that's like a cold start, right? You get, you hit it a little bit, you get some of those turps, you hit it a little hotter, a little bit more, you increase the temperature. That's a, that's how the Trinity pen was designed. The Trinity pen was designed that if you hold that button down for a little bit, You'll get that 500 degree low temp dab.

8:06BubblemanYou hold it down like a second full cycle. You're getting up to a six, six 50 dab. And if you did it four times, you could literally get your Johnny B like 800 Fahrenheit, hot red nail rip.

8:19SpeakerIt's just, I was going to say, I like, I like the third hit when I do the cold start and then I hit it with the torch again and heat it up.

8:28BubblemanOf course, of course you do. You're like, You're the anomaly, Johnny B. You want that hot rip.

8:36SpeakerIt's what works for me. And it's only at certain times, because a lot of times in the morning, I really like that terpy, like cold start. That's why I like this terpameter. I like those flavors in the morning, but as the day progresses, I guess that hotter hit is what hits me harder. So the morning, those flavors wakes you up, you're feeling more energetic. And as the day progresses, if it got some good pain, then of course I hit it hot and hey, I'm right back at it, right?

9:02BubblemanThere you go. Hey, welcome. Welcome. Best Friend Farms is in the house.

9:09BubblemanOh, he's just connecting his audio. I'm already like welcoming him when he's not even like fully in. But yeah, we got him hanging out. I think I'm about to do a little dab. I was a little bit nervous this morning. I haven't felt that energy for a while when I'm like, Am I going to fail at this? Am I going to like be not able to do this?

9:27BubblemanIt was very strange to not have my keyboard hook up to my computer. That's never that's never happened to me before.

9:34Etienne FontanSo the joys of technology. Oh, bro.

9:38BubblemanIt's so true. It's so true. Just ridiculous. Yet on the same flip side, the joys of technology, the very thing that allows us to get together during these times of covid and share our faces and our sort of emotional context and our Our words together with all these different people that are watching online. I'm sure we have, geez, I don't even know how many we got in there right now, but I'm sure it's a couple hundred.

10:03Etienne FontanHey, at least it's not Google Meetups anymore. Oh, my God.

10:10BubblemanI know that whole Google Hangouts thing was like not good. That was fun.

10:15SpeakerI honestly remember being in India. You'd have to book a phone call to avoid it. 24 hours, 48 hours. Okay, then you make your phone call and it's screechy, screechy, screechy.

10:32Etienne FontanOh my God. I thought of you this week, Marcus. The Kumbh Mela in India is happening.

10:44BubblemanRight, exactly. Wow. I was there in 1998. So it'll be...

10:52BubblemanYeah, that'll be some years ago now. Holy smokes. I would advise anyone who wants to go check out the Kumbh Mela in India to go check it out. It's definitely a neat reason to have, you know, if you're going to India, it's a good spot to kind of have on your horizon. It doesn't really affect your rest of your traveling. You can obviously continue on from Wherever it is, I don't know if it's in Alabad, Jaipur, Varanasi or Haridwar, but I'm sure it's going to be in one of those four spots because it has been for the last like, I don't know, 4000 years or however many thousands of years they've been doing this thing.

11:30BubblemanPretty cool, pretty cool. Definitely one of my eye-openers. Amazing experience for me. Smoking hash on the Ganges with the babas out of the chillum. And he would, every day he must have said this. I mean, honestly, this man was like Skunk Man Sam in a sadhu. All he said was, one more chillum we are making, one more chillum we are making. And that's kind of reminiscent of hanging out with Sam.

11:57BubblemanOne more bond load we are packing, One more bong load we are packing. Best Friend Farms is going to make another attempt to joining us. I guess he's also having maybe some technical difficulties. Sometimes it happens. I can see he's trying to connect his audio now. We'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes.

12:17Etienne FontanSo on the news, for the Kumbh Mela, they had a sadhu that seemed to be rolling in front of the procession.

12:26BubblemanOh, the rolling sadhu, yeah. There was one guy, and I met him at the Maha Kumbh Mela. He had rolled from the northern tip of India to the southern tip of India. He just rolled. And you meet people like this at the Kumbh Mela. I met another guy who was holding his arm up for 12 years. It had turned into a stone and you could hang like heavy things off of it because it was not like you couldn't bend this guy's arm.

12:51BubblemanIt had turned into a stone. Another guy had held his hand closed for I don't even know how long it was, but his nails were growing out the top of his hand from him holding his hand in a fist. He just had nails coming out of his hand. And there was a guy standing on one leg as well. And he had been standing on one leg, I want to say, for at least a decade.

13:13BubblemanJust he had this kind of thing set up to hold his leg up. His leg was also a stone. It wasn't moving anymore. If you looked at it closely, you were like, that doesn't look good. Definitely a trip to just, you know, do things that the mind tells you are impossible. That's the one thing I would say I had in common that kept reoccurring itself with my trip to India was that I just kept witnessing the impossible things that my North American brain didn't believe could happen.

13:42BubblemanThank you so much for joining us today.

14:11BubblemanThat is so strange to me. He's in the chat with us and he's everyone else gets it. They all click on the link and they come in. But Mark is not getting the link. And I really don't know why that is even more important. Guess what? My keyboard has disconnected from my. Oh, yeah.

14:33Etienne FontanOh, yeah.

14:35BubblemanOh, yeah. I got a mouse. I got a mouse. I might be able to do it with the mouse. Let's see. Let's see. Oh, look at that. I could do it with the mouse. That is funny though, that my keyboard has done that again.

14:48Etienne FontanMight be an update you need to put in there.

14:51BubblemanMight be a new keyboard for Mark coming in here in the near future. Let's hope we don't disconnect and that the mouse will do everything that we need because these are brand new batteries for this keyboard. Anyway, I just sent the link. I feel that that's happening lately and I'm not sure why. Like how could Mark be in a group chat with all of us and not get the link to the show?

15:14BubblemanWhereas everyone else clicked on the very same link I sent to the very same chat room. I don't like that, I'll tell you.

15:23WadeIt took me a couple of minutes to sort out because there was a thread of emails. And the initial, the first email that you sent saying that you wanted to do a church this morning is the one that has the link in it. And all the subsequent emails did not have it. So you've got to go back to that first one and open it all the way open.

15:44WadeAnd there it is, the Zoom link. That's what I read, too, Marcus.

15:48Etienne FontanYou know what it is, Marcus? It's the DEA and the dark cannabis web are trying to keep Dr. Mark away from our knowledge. That's what it is. It's the anti-science mafia once again just doing it. Come on, Hash Church. We've got to get these anti-Hash Churchers.

16:07BubblemanYou know what's funny is that 20 years ago we would have been all over that shit and it would have been for sure our belief and it probably would have been also true. So it's not too far of a reality that we've kind of come out of here. But now we got Dr. Mark joining. I think my keyboard's set back up. I think everything is going as it should.

16:31SpeakerMust be a plot.

16:34BubblemanMust be a plot. It's a conspiracy. I don't see him though. I don't see Dr. Oh, he's trying to join. And what about Best Friend Farms? Are you in the house now? Are you like here and we can hear you?

16:48WadeHe's muted, but he's here.

16:51BubblemanOh, shit.

16:53Etienne FontanWhat up, Brian? And see the dirt cannabis whip.

17:02BubblemanOh, my goodness. All right. I think we're dealing with our technical difficulties. We're doing good, man. I'm glad. I don't know, Mark. It makes no sense. I'm sending links to group chats that you're in and the other people in the group chat are clicking on the link and coming in. And then you're like, I'm not getting the chat. So I got to go into my settings.

17:20Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's a couple, Mark Sheldon. So just make sure it's me. You might be Facebook friends with the other ones, right?

17:26BubblemanOh, that would be weird. Yeah, there's a Mark Sheldon attorney.

17:30Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's a Mark Sheldon fire chief.

17:33WadeThere's a Mark Sheldon beverage guy. There's a few more. Oh, yeah. Send invites to all them guys.

17:39SpeakerAnd there's another one that's a real one.

17:43Etienne FontanHey, I found another ATN Fontaine in France, so it's possible.

17:49SpeakerI've got 16 Johnny B's, okay? 16.

17:51BubblemanIf you punch in Mark Richardson into Facebook, there definitely comes up about like three or 400 black guys. And so I guess my name is more of a black guy name than it is a white guy name, at least according to Facebook, which I'm pretty good with.

18:09SpeakerAnd we're all from Africa.

18:11BubblemanThat's what I heard. That's what I heard. That's what they told me. That's what they told me. So yeah, just a nice chill Sunday. You know, I've been kind of like, regardless of whether or not we have a plan or a discussion or something really juicy to talk about, I thought, you know what? People have really been digging the consistency of the last two or three weeks of us kind of joining.

18:34BubblemanWe don't have to commit to four hours every day, but if it comes and it happens and the natural conversation seems to develop like it usually does, well then, so be it. And first off, I want to shout out, geez, how do I shout out Rob? His name is like Gizzer, Gizzer Forever, whatever, one. He's on Instagram. He is the dude that took the, I guess, Snapple advertisement that we've jacked, turned it into the all-natural hashish made from the best stuff on earth.

19:05BubblemanAnd that is the avatar for the Hash Church show today. So I wanted to give him a shout out because I had just found it on Instagram and, you know, just posted it and said to anyone, hey, please, if you know who created this, Please, you know, let me know so I can give them a shout out. And it ended up being a good friend of mine from out east.

19:23BubblemanSo shout out to you, Giza, wherever you are. I know you're smoking that hash. He's also responsible for the H-R-E-A-M, you know, hash rules everything around me, sort of shirts and graphics, the freem. I know Brian knows what that's all about. He's definitely like, ooh, yeah, I know. That's awesome.

19:46Etienne FontanYou know what we should do sometime? We should all find our person who has our exact same name and have them all appear and hash church together all confused.

19:55BubblemanDude.

19:56Etienne FontanEpic confusion.

19:57BubblemanDude, that's some April 1st shit right there. I mean, my God, it's so funny. People will be like, who are all these people with like all the people's names? Like, who are these people?

20:10SpeakerYou have seven black guys instead of you.

20:14BubblemanAbsolutely. Dude, trust me. I've like spoke to a few of them on Facebook. We're good to go. We're lined up. We are lined up. It's funny to bring them in. So we're glad to have you here, Mark. That was a little bit scary that you weren't going to make it in. We always appreciate your perspective here in Hash Church. Geez, without you talking, my goodness, that's half a show right there.

20:37BubblemanIt's great to be back.

20:41Dr Mark ScialdoneI always check in with the chat in the morning. Usually over my coffee and dab in the morning and I'll look to see who's on chat. And, you know, usually it's John Maddox and Bingo Lombardi. Yep. And 70s Mama will be in there once in a while. And it's just, again, this thing that happens that's independent to the show itself, but just this gathering of people. And again, just to not go back to the Grateful Dead thing, but it's kind of like before the concert, people sort of went to the venue.

21:14Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's getting ready for the show. It's these people who are in line, who are here for the show, but they're psyched to be getting ready for the show. Getting ready for the show is sometimes more fun than the show itself.

21:29BubblemanWell, it takes a lot longer when you're traveling from like the center of Canada and driving to some venue on the East Coast and you had to get tickets and you had to cross a border and you had to like break down and get pulled over by cops and almost busted and then you got ripped off but then you got good weed and then you ended up at the concert venue but you had a flat tire but then you found some grilled cheeses, you ate some mushrooms, you ended up in the venue, the fucking show was killer and let's do it all over again tomorrow.

21:54Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, you know, I don't know if you listen, Mark, but every day on the Grateful Dead XM channel, there's Today and Grateful Dead History. And the archivist is my friend, David Lemieux, who is a fellow Canadian from BC. In fact, he lives not too far from where you're at, Marcus. He's a really cool guy. He fishes. He's really into, again, just keeping the archive of the Grateful Dead.

22:20Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd he's on every day. And so for those of us who listen to the XM channel, we listen to Grateful Dead stories from him every day. And he's always got that whole thing about how to cross the border, how to navigate the border and go to these ultra psychedelic crazy events. And still come back to society and re-assimilate back to Canada, you know?

22:45BubblemanYeah, I've listened to him as well. I love his stories. And those are, they're just, yeah, they're classic. And they're great because we relate to them. You know, the easiest I ever got over the border here in British Columbia by far, because I'd been trying and trying and trying and just constantly getting denied. But when Phish came up, and I can't remember if it was like 96 or 7 or 8 years,

23:08BubblemanBut one of those years I was just like, I was at the show, I was like kind of tripping and it was just like, everyone was like, all right, man, we're going, you know, it's like, we got to go back.

23:17Dr Mark ScialdoneWe got to go. Portland's tomorrow, you know, like, I'm like, all right, well, you know what?

23:22BubblemanI'm fucking coming. And I just got in my car and drove with this procession of freaks. And at the time, I looked really like the least amount of a freak. And I was in a brand new rented car. So I want to tell you, I got through there so quick. Every single person that was at that show that was wearing patchwork clothes and dreaded out and like just super flying their freak flag.

23:46BubblemanThey were all Pulled over when I drove through, I could see them all getting torn apart by their vans. None of them cared because they're all Americans anyway, and they can't be denied into their country. But I'm the Canadian and I can be denied into the country. I don't really care about being denied into America other than the fact that I really want to see the show tomorrow in Portland, you know, from the actual venue, not from someone's recording like a month later.

24:13BubblemanSo that's what it's up for me. All unnecessary.

24:18Dr Mark ScialdoneThe whole fucking border hold down is just such a bunch of bullshit, man. It's just... It is.

24:25BubblemanIt's a bummer for sure. It's definitely a bummer for us to have between our two countries. We were talking about it the other day, how great a country from like the tip of Alaska, you know, maybe down to like Guatemala or Venezuela or something. Just have a West Coast country. We've all dreamed about it in the past. No borders. You know, get Elon to build some crazy tubes that just...

24:46BubblemanWe can blast down there in like four hours or whatever, going 600 miles an hour. That would be pretty sweet. But, you know, we got what we got. Got to do got to got to do the best we can with what we have. And it doesn't stop us from dreaming because had we not been dreaming all these years, I'm certain that my company wouldn't have been signing contracts with provinces for hash supply.

25:11BubblemanAnd I'm sure that ATN wouldn't still be doing what he's been doing for the last, you know, 20 to 30 years and many others.

25:18Dr Mark ScialdoneSo clearly the things that we've been doing on that mark, I know that that's no easy feat and being able to, you know, get your product into the, you know, masses, you know, or at least having that ability to grow that market share is just, Thank you so much for joining us today.

25:56Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

25:58BubblemanAnd a responsibility, like you said, it's a responsibility. It's not just about supplying one time. It's about supplying and then consistently supplying and making sure that you're taking care of both your medical patients and your rec market. Because I do see, you know, some difficulties in having both of those markets. I see a lot of companies kind of go like, Just right, right to rec med can be difficult.

26:22BubblemanYou have to deal with patients. There's all these other things. And I feel like I don't like the idea of the med patients getting the short end of the stick on all of that. So it's definitely a discussion and it's something that we're going to pay attention to. We want to make sure that, uh,

26:35Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us today.

26:51BubblemanYou know, GMP is serious business. It's great to get into that pharmaceutical market and into markets like Germany and parts of Europe like that. But at the same time, you know, you want to talk about needing a runway to create a GMP facility. The costs are so over the top. They're already over the top with our I don't want to say over-regulated industry, but it is very regulated.

27:17BubblemanI think we look at it as way over-regulated because of how under-regulated our food and our water and our air tends to be. It's so easy to poison either of those three things, and you can profit off that poisoning substantially, and so people in the cannabis industry are kind of like, why do we have to Thank you for watching.

27:52BubblemanIf any pesticides or fungicides are being allowed and all of that sort of thing. I love the sort of over-regulated that side of it. I dislike the over-regulated aspect of, you know, some of the rest of it that comes into play where you just get painted into these corners and you just got to, You know, do your best to get out of those corners and, you know, to create this thing that has not been yet created.

28:21BubblemanIt's just still scaling up. It's just still happening. So I would like to tip my hat off truly to all the companies, both in the US and Canada, that have managed to get products to the market. It really is a long and winding road, but it's worthwhile sticking to it.

28:40Dr Mark ScialdoneMarcus, could I ask a question? So when you're using all that water, are you recovering anything from your water? Because I would assume, again, part of your GMP would be to try to, you know, again, standardize a process to make sure that you're getting everything that you need to get. And I would also just think from a sanitary point of view, sending hash water down the sink may not be the most, you know, best, you know, route for its sanitation.

29:08Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what could you comment on the discharge of your water?

29:12BubblemanWell, we're definitely looking at it. We're building a quiver, as you know. So the whole purpose of Embark was to build a quiver. So when I started the company with my partners, part of me was wanting to stick with my ego and be like, you know what? I'm the solventless guy. And this is going to be all about bubble. And that's what we're going to do because that's all I've been doing.

29:31BubblemanI sort of thought of these different conversations I've had. I think of my relationship with Dr. Mark. I think of my relationship with Mike West, some of my, you know, chemist friends that understand that it's just chemistry and it's just molecules and chemicals are everywhere and everything. And that sort of helped me to the point where it was like, you know what, if we're going to build this company, I don't mind having a big solventless division, but I really believe the quiver is going to be important.

29:54BubblemanAnd it comes into importance with your question when you start deciding, look, How are you going to recover the say the terpenes or the phenols out of your waters after you've washed it? Is there anything that you can do for that? If you've got a solvent list set up, that's going to be a little bit more difficult. But if you've got a seven modalities of extraction, you've got CO2 and hydrocarbons and ethanol and dual We've got a lot of different types of products.

30:19BubblemanWe've got a lot of different types of products. We've got a lot of different types of products. We've got a lot of different types of products.

30:46BubblemanBut it's 40% or 30%, you know, it's contaminated, but it still has resin in it. You know, the client doesn't want it mixed into their A or B grade, but we don't want to throw it out. So all of these little things, we're definitely thinking consciously, and we definitely don't want to be just tossing things away unnecessarily because we understand the value of the plant, so. We're working on it is the best answer I can give you.

31:10BubblemanAnd I'll explain my answers with Embark like I did on my live show yesterday. Because we're going to go public eventually, because I'm a founder, because I'm a deep part of this company, and because we're so regulated in Canada, I have to be very careful with what I say and don't say. And my problem is I don't know really what I can't say. And so I've always been so transparent and so open with everything.

31:38BubblemanYou know, my partners are like, don't like, please just like be careful. And so obviously I don't want to put my company at risk or my license at risk, but we are making way to become more and more transparent without putting our license at risk. So that's all I'll say about that. But congratulations to the whole team at Embark. They have been kicking ass, taking names and kicking ass.

32:03Etienne FontanMarcus, a great trick that I have found is you take a lawyer and then you transplant them into your hip so that everywhere you go, you have somebody who's making sure you're safe. So I might go for a lawyer hip transplant for your own protection for embark is what I'm suggesting.

32:19BubblemanYou know, I know that's like funny, but I'm seriously considering it.

32:24Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, it is funny, but it isn't because I decided not saying anything, you know, it's difficult, especially when you have an online You know, show like Ash Church and, you know, people know you as being such a great resource for information. And it's difficult to say no I've had to do that too, Marcus. It's like impossible. Because the community is so hungry for information, you know, and they'll come to you with such passion and want to know everything.

32:57Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd you can't always divulge everything because part of the value you're capturing for All of that is for Embark is for, yeah, a group of investors.

33:08BubblemanWell, that's just it. And you give away so much that you really create a level. And I mean, I've had this happen with my own friends that where they become so entitled because I've been giving them so much that they now actually expect Thank you for watching.

33:37BubblemanPlease understand my position. Like, try to have empathy for me. I'm not evil. I'm not trying to keep things from people, but my goodness, if you're truly my friend, you would have an understanding of where I'm coming from and understand that it's not to keep things, you know, it's that I've created a situation for myself and now it's my responsibility to navigate it.

34:00Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, and know that whatever is shared on Ash Church is patented by Sam already.

34:06BubblemanWell, that's it. He's got the pen and paper there and he's just patenting away. It's wonderful. I did see recently that Nextleaf released a patent for water extraction and I'm very excited to see what is going to go on with that. Talk about previously published art. There's already been a patent that's existed from Reinhard Delp from 1997 till 1990 or 2018, I believe his patent.

34:30Dr Mark ScialdoneMark, do you have the patent number? Do you have the patent number you could share with me?

34:34BubblemanI could find it for you real soon by just punching in Next Leaf.

34:39Dr Mark ScialdoneSo for everybody out there, you know, like a lot of people have been asking me about patents because I got a couple and you always have to look at the most, the key thing in the patent, always look at claim number one. Claim number one. Claim number one is what they're claiming. That's usually like their main thing. And if you look and if you can figure out a way around claim one, well, And it's probably not going to hold up.

35:05Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd there's still no precedent in the United States for cannabis-based patents to hold up in an infringement case against it. So there's still a lot of questions about whether or not you want to patent anything at all. You know, why would you? There's a lawsuit now. Right between GW Pharmaceutical and Canopy, I think, right? Oh, yeah. I think I heard about this on the BizCon thing. But if memory serves me correctly, people have been using CO2 extraction for botanicals for a long time.

35:43Dr Mark ScialdoneSo where is the invention on using it for cannabis? I don't know.

35:48BubblemanWell, someone patented it. Someone patented it a long time ago. Mike West was the one telling me about this. And he sold it for $10 and 1%. And Canopy bought that patent by buying a bunch of companies up that happened to hold that CO2 patent. And like anything, I think most people were just because it was patented a while ago. It's an older patent. And so I guess, you know, people were like, well, there's no value to that.

36:15BubblemanAnd then Canopy bought it and kind of some lawyer probably saw it in their portfolio and was like, holy shit, like, let's look into this. And yeah, I wish Mike West was around because he has a little bit more information.

36:25Dr Mark ScialdoneAm I missing something? There are companies that sell CO2 extraction machines. Oh, I know. There's all kinds of people out there doing CO2 extraction. Well, think of how many people.

36:37BubblemanThink of how many people were making bubbles.

36:39Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's like saying using water to make coffee is proprietary to Mr. Coffee or something.

36:44BubblemanAgreed. I'm 100% in agreeance. I felt like it the first time around when I was in my lawsuit with Reinhard Delp and found myself for five years in a lawsuit because I was selling bubble bags, teaching people how to make water hash. And here's this guy saying, well, I patented that in 1997. Before I showed Mila, you know, which I guess Mila maybe didn't know because she showed the process to Mark Rose and Eldon a couple of days later and they were sitting there looking at it and Eldon was like two five gallon shaped nylon bags with screen bottoms and you've got the same thing.

37:16BubblemanMark Mark Rose is sitting there going, it's the isolator. It's using ice to isolate. It's the isolator. He named the product. He manufactured the product. Eldon invented the product. Mila sold the product. And that's really was the beginning of Reinhard Delp, you know, kind of losing control of his of his market cap. I came along, tried to sell isolator bags. It didn't work out. So we made our own with extra bags and extra screens.

37:46BubblemanAnd that became bubble bags. And that's how I ended up in a nice little five year lawsuit with Reinhard Delp. Happily paid him six figures out, which I was very happy.

37:59BubblemanVery happy to do because Trey, that she was the one that got screwed. In reality, it was Reinhard Delp who got screwed. And I made sure that he got paid for that and that I paid for him for royalties for the entire time my company was alive from 1999. Thank you so much for joining us.

38:37BubblemanTook on Mark Rose as my manufacturer, the very same guy who named isolator bags and manufactured them. He ended up hitting me up a couple of years later because I guess Mila decided to get Turkish immigrants to make the bags instead of the Nepali people that were doing it in Nepal with Mark Rose. He felt a little screwed. That pushed him over to my camp. And we've been working happily ever since for about 20 plus years.

39:01BubblemanSo there's a little history of water extraction for you right there. Maybe there'll be new history 20 years from now with people like Next Leaf and their patents. I don't know how it plays out, Mark, but I'll tell you, patent court is terrifying. You think that it's going to play out one way but it never does and the judge can lean any way he wants and you can still end up burning hundreds of thousands of dollars in the courts you know with the case over years so my advice is that companies get together they work things out Don't bring lawyers into it because they are the ones that will, they're the ones that will take your money.

39:35BubblemanAnd they're almost like secret partners on both sides of the table. They want to be difficult back and forth because that's where they make their money, unfortunately.

39:45SpeakerAlso, that only lasts for 20 years and then you have no protection.

39:53BubblemanExactly. Well, well said, Sam. That is a big, big, big, big deal. And it's it's something that I don't think a lot of people pay attention to. Now, I'm certain there is methodologies. Maybe Dr. Mark knows where you can extend patents by filing paperwork and doing certain things, depending on the situation. I could be wrong.

40:10Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Yeah. So what happens is, is when you file a patent, sometimes you file very, very broadly. And when the patent office gets it, they basically divide it into what are called divisional patents. And those patents are individually prosecuted and will grant individually. So like, for example, like with the hydrogenation, they recognize that there were multiple inventions there. There was the process, there was the composition, there was the, you know, a method to control tumor growth.

40:41Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's various claims that you could make. And each of those claims in and of itself can become its own issued patent. And so as certain claims are easy to get because there's no prior art like Composition of Matter, HHCA, for example, there was no HHCA until we disclosed it. So that was an easy patent to get. It was easy to get that one. But other things where we had Stephen Sills, HHCA combination with other cannabinoids.

41:10Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, the other cannabinoids were known. So now you're talking about having to evaluate the prior art, which is relevant here versus not relevant in the other easy to get cases. So you're easy to get cases or they're the first cases that are going to issue. But then what you do is you file what's called a continuation in part. And the continuation in part Thank you for joining us today.

41:53Dr Mark ScialdoneThat basically extends the lifetime because every time you get an issued patent, that's another 20 years, 20 years, 20 years, 20 years, 20 years. Right. I don't know why we don't respect. Sorry, go ahead. I was going to stop by just saying in the cannabis industry, it's likely that, you know, a lot of the, you know, sort of secret things that are done. Thank you. Thank you.

42:17Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you. Thank you.

42:45Dr Mark ScialdoneJohn C. either a solventless extraction or solvent based extraction, but making a particular like a live resin or a rosin or a particular product that could be made reproducibly time and time again. And Mark, you know, the whole premise of GMP, good manufacturing practices is being able to do something consistently time and time again. And when I say consistently, Again, with cannabis, things change. So you have to basically set an error bar or an understand a tolerance of what your product specifications are.

43:22Dr Mark ScialdoneSo if it has this much mercine, it meets specification. But if there's not enough mercine, it doesn't meet specifications. Right. And it can go on to basically be another product, turn that stuff into distillate or something. But, you know, GMP is is again, it's in all the other industries for food ingredients. For the ingredients that we use in our medicines, for the ingredients we use in the cosmetics and personal care product industries.

43:49Dr Mark ScialdoneSo these are all the adjacent industries that were basically already using good manufacturing practices. Now this will spill over into the cannabis industry. And it's just really good to see because again, when you're doing small scale hash production, you could see the nuances of how this thing could All of these things come out very, very different, even on a small scale. So imagine now committing, We've got hundreds of thousands of grams or liters now.

44:18Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're talking about a lot of material being processed at any one particular time. So trust me, I know it well.

44:27BubblemanIt's terrifying. There's very, very small numbers. Like if you get a skew, it's got to be between this percentage of THC. They're not. Thank God they're not doing it with terpenes yet. Like, oh, you don't have enough mercy and that fails. It's like but if you put something into your skew, Thank you for joining us.

45:00BubblemanAt the same time, this is all we wanted for the longest time. Stop segregating us. Let us assimilate into society. Let cannabis be a part of the world. And a big part of that, this is what comes along with it. Like, of course, if it's going to be a big part of the world and it's not going to be segregated into the closet anymore, well, then it's going to be like everything else in the world.

45:21BubblemanAnd it's going to fall into all of those other Sort of you know modalities which is like yeah we have to do this properly it has to be like i know you've been doing this for 30 years and it's been fine and safe but it's like we do this for your medicine we do this for your food and um we're gonna do it with with cannabis as well so thank goodness that we'll never you know for me as long as they never take away the ability for us to grow recreationally and grow medically so anyone that wants to put the time and the energy can still access Thank you for watching.

46:09BubblemanThat it's been created safely and that it's not going to have a bunch of crap in because you would not believe the awareness you need to have to set up a hash facility, to make hash, to make sure nothing in that room is shedding, nothing is releasing or chipping or contaminating your final product. And I can't tell you where I've seen that in different labs. I've seen it in things that you could not possibly imagine.

46:36BubblemanYou know, putting your books down on top of a deep freezer and then the deep freezer slowly chipping and releasing paint. You know, box cutters that instead of plastic bodies have metal bodies that have been painted yellow and red and black. And every time you put those down, they chip little bits of paint. I've seen this in labs before. So once you become that crazy person in the lab running the facility and keeping all of this stuff from happening, You just can't believe how easy it is for microbials and for contaminations that shed off of different things that you're trying to keep out.

47:14BubblemanYou become the ultimate goaltender. You're just trying to keep this stuff out. And it becomes a real challenge the bigger you get and the higher up you scale.

47:24Collin PalmerYeah, I agree, Marcus. I went through that here in the state of Massachusetts where I got so... Rob Fraschke, Jr.: Wild with it that I, I had to look at the air filters, because I was finding Rob Fraschke, Jr.: Things that were falling instead of settling and I looked at our height off road about one day coming in from the solvent the side and I just like wiped on it.

47:43Collin PalmerRob Fraschke, Jr.: In my hat. Rob Fraschke, Jr.: Yeah, that's it right here. You know, we've been scoping this thing for like a while. This is before we even released anything we just we narrowed everything down. And really cut all the different nuances out to really just get the room clean. And I mean, as clean, like eat off the floor clean, you know? Oh yeah, hospital clean.

48:08Collin PalmerExactly, hospital clean. And that's how we, that's how I operate. And I know that's how you operate, Mark, because you have to be that in tune with your, it's not only your tools, but it's also your environment. It's the things you bring into your environment, the things that you're wearing during the time you're in your environment. They all play a major role in how your end product really comes out because we don't have these solvents and these vessels to keep this stuff contained.

48:37Collin PalmerWe very much deal with a lot of still what I call the elements, even when we're inside. Totally.

48:44Dr Mark ScialdoneWhen you see that the company like Marcus's has made the commitment We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do.

49:15Dr Mark ScialdoneThey have to be cleaned from floor to ceiling. Any horizontal surface that can collect dust. So you can imagine like some of your labs you see where they have like Thank you so much for joining us.

49:58Dr Mark Scialdoneon how to clean that surface and a record of how often that surface is clean because that surface could be the source of contamination down below.

50:08Collin PalmerYou're so right. And you have to get that detailed, Mark. And that's unbelievable. Like Marcus said, we all wanted this for years. I mean, this is. I'm excited to have these challenges. It makes me better for it and it makes our process better for it and allows us to look at different parts of the process in ways that we might not otherwise look at it.

50:29BubblemanLet's pass on some value to our viewers right now because there is one thing I can give you that I came across that I decided was not going to happen in my lab. And it might surprise a bunch of people because I see people customizing these. I see people doing this all the time. And it's a conversation I've wanted to bring up for a while. And this is, of course, the the cozies that are placed on the outside of the buckets, on the outside of the washers, on the outside of the 65 gallon stainless steel tubs that pure pressure sells.

51:00BubblemanThese, although can be cleaned, unless you have someone who understands the SOPs and protocols of a GMP facility, they will never get those things cleaned properly. And if you simply do A swab test on your cozies that are sitting on the outside of your buckets, you will find the microbial content is high, higher than you want it to be and absolutely a vector for potential contamination in your final product.

51:27BubblemanYou're folding your bags over top of that cozy and your bags are touching that cozy that is continually soaking We've got a lot of stuff to talk about. We've got a lot of stuff to talk about.

51:52BubblemanThey're unnecessary. They do not keep your buckets colder. You can just put a little bit of more ice in. It really doesn't make a huge difference when you pull them off versus the potential of contaminant that is there to contaminate your final end product. To me, that's something I would get rid of ASAP.

52:11Dr Mark ScialdoneMarcus, that's such a great suggestion. I've always thought about that that was a point of contamination. Do they start to smell like after a while? Like because if they're absorbing water and they're like drying out, absorbing water, dry out, do they start to smell after a while?

52:26BubblemanThey would absolutely now keep in mind, we were cleaning ours like crazy, but it wasn't enough. Well, with, with special cleaning, um, uh, like detergents that you could clean. We also used ISO on the outside, but it wouldn't soak in. They're very thick. So to me, I just like the idea of getting rid of them. They don't help. They're not, uh, all they are is a vector for potential contamination.

52:49BubblemanAnd that's my opinion, but it's a gift to anyone listening today because, uh, You know, if you just want to avoid a potential, and if you don't believe me, start doing swab tests on it. You can get swab kits, you can swab your, your, um, everything in your room for microbial content and you, and you should be doing this and having these things tested because if you were, you would probably be ripping those cozies off ASAP.

53:14Etienne FontanSo Scott, man, I know that you're a big dry sift. I know we're talking water here, but you know, we were talking patents. So when does your dry sift patent expire so that you can share your dry sift secrets with the rest of us?

53:29SpeakerIt is not a patent. It's a proprietary information. It's called a trade secret.

53:36BubblemanIt's the Coca-Cola recipe.

53:38SpeakerBut if you tell a few key people in the universe, And I told them once I'm dead, they're free to do whatever they want with the information. But don't hold your breath because I ain't going nowhere.

53:53BubblemanExactly. And Sam, I can concur. You did absolutely say exactly that to me. And I have held that respect. And I've had people be pissed at me for being loyal to a mentor and a friend, if you can imagine, which is fine. Those people play their cards early on. I'm loyal. I'm loyal. When someone asks, and it's not mine to tell them, it's yours. It's yours. It's not, you didn't give it to me.

54:22BubblemanYou showed me and you told me that if when I pass away, you can share it. Until then, keep it, keep it to yourself, which I have absolutely done. I don't use the process at my company. I've never shown the process to anyone. But it sure is. You have asked. It's an eye opener.

54:38SpeakerWe have asked and you were like, no. And I respect it's like.

54:41BubblemanActually, even further, John, I asked you guys not to ask me anymore is what I actually asked because I felt like I said this. I said, do you really want to trick me out of this? Do you really want to get me into a conversation and trick me out of something? That my mentor, this person I have so much respect for, that you can't imagine the joy and pride I had when he showed that to me.

55:04BubblemanAnd it wasn't because I was gonna be learning something that nobody knew. It was because that that man decided to trust me. And you think I'm gonna let that go? You think I'm gonna like let that trust go?

55:16SpeakerI was there. You were like the happiest man in the world. I wanted to make sure that the information It was available to mankind if I wasn't able to mechanicalize it like I wanted to. I wanted to automate the system but I don't know if I'll be able to or not. But lots of people can make pretty damn good dry sips nowadays. So they're maybe not making 99.9 but they're making 95 pretty easily.

55:54Collin PalmerThe varieties are getting better too. So, you know. They sure are. It's easier to collect. And, you know, with that said, do you think Mark and even Sam, do you think utility patents are something that could hold up because they're nuances of just processes? I mean, what do you think about that?

56:15SpeakerA utility patent does not last as long as I've held this secret.

56:22Collin PalmerRight. I agree.

56:25Dr Mark ScialdoneNow, what if you have what if you're one of those guys like, you know, actually, that are trying to do, I think if you're trying to raise money, and you're trying to build perceived value, filing patents could be a way of sort of, I mean, think of a patent is like a picket and a picket fence. And a patent in and of itself is not as valuable as All right.

56:53Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

57:22Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's difficult because your competitors aren't necessarily going to let you into their facility to know that their process infringes on your process. You can buy their product in the store and you could do some type of analysis, but at the end of the day, they're extracting THCA or THC or CBD or whatever cannabinoid, and it's in a product. Okay, well, I mean, those methods have been around for a long time, so there's nothing really new about that.

57:52Dr Mark ScialdoneI guess the companies who are filing, who are coming out with new extraction processes or machines that are particular for their process. So in order to run their process, to make that kind of product, you have to buy their machine. So of course they want to patent that machine because they want to be the only machine manufacturer that could make that particular thing. I haven't really seen that too much in cannabis.

58:16Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, mostly a lot of these extracts are, you know, Thank you so much for joining us.

58:43Dr Mark ScialdoneYou should get a very proper extract.

58:47Collin PalmerYeah, I concur with that. You know, I've gone through a great deal of material this past year alone, and I've seen varying sizes of types of quality and yields. And at the end of the day, we have a specific target to make full melt. And there's things that we need to you always have to adapt to. And it's about it does become about your process as well as the material.

59:09Collin PalmerBut There is, there actually, like you're saying, there is a, there's more size to it. It's not as black and white as, as, as, you know, as just the material versus the process.

59:19BubblemanI think more people need to focus on actually growing quality cannabis because the bottom line is if you haven't even grown great cannabis, The process is, none of these processes are going to work for you. I'd also say that nothing's faster than large-scale water extraction for isolating 99.9% gland heads. You all have had access to it for 20 plus years. So what, you just think you're going to get access to this new thing and it's going to change your world?

59:42BubblemanTrust me, the thing that will change your world is growing better weed. Focus on that. That is important.

59:50Collin PalmerI agree, Marcus, 100,000%.

59:52Dr Mark ScialdoneLike we were talking last week, I mean, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:00:23Dr Mark ScialdoneRichard Kelley, Online Things. By the way, Marcus, speaking of online things, I saw your Curious About Cannabis podcast. Very nice. Curious About Cannabis podcast with Marcus. Y'all should check it out. It was great. Marcus tells his story. But, you know, there's so many things that I think that you can do, like, you know, the Dragonfly Earth Medicine School of Thought of regenerative cannabis. You know, kind of like what we were talking about with the guy from SC Labs.

1:00:57Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm forgetting his name right now, Alex, right? So having those analytical methods now, not only at the third-party testing lab, but at your production facilities themselves, where you could actually follow the biomass you're getting into building. You could look at each individual fraction, whether you're extracting and making distillate or making some type of solventless product, All these things can be tested now to look at what the cannabinoid and terpene profiles are and translate that information into stuff that you can put on the label that customers can actually pay attention to.

1:01:33BubblemanSo it's kind of cool. Yeah, absolutely. I almost forgot about that podcast, actually. I haven't done that many lately, but yeah, I did tell the whole story on that one for sure.

1:01:46Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, that was cool, Marcus. You did a great job. Congratulations on that. That was great. Jason's a nice guy. We should get him on on Hash Church sometime.

1:01:54BubblemanAbsolutely. Anytime you guys have people you want to invite on to Hash Church, please hit me up. You guys are the core group. I invite you all the time, but I love mixing it up. New energy always creates new dialogue and new conversation. It doesn't always work out as good as we'd like it to, but I'm always down with taking the chance, even if it's just a matter of doing a sort of a little pre-Hash Church video with people that we're thinking of bringing on.

1:02:20BubblemanIt would be nice to expand our hash group core group here. So yeah, we should do that for sure.

1:02:29Dr Mark ScialdoneWade asked a question in the chat here about Delta 8. You want me to chime in just for a second about Delta 8 for a second? A lot of interest in that these days. Yeah, absolutely.

1:02:39WadeAre you guys sick of listening to me talk?

1:02:42Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, talking up, bro. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. Um, um, so remember like when Michelle isolated Delta nine THC, and the reason why we call it Delta nine is because when you look at the molecular structure of THC, right, those things, it looks like chicken wire. There's like three rings, right? And when you look at the north ring, you'll see that there's a double bond, which is a carbon.

1:03:09Dr Mark ScialdoneEach one of those angles is basically a carbon. Steve Sorenson, MD, And there's a double bond between two of the carbons and where that double bond resides is the Delta 9 configuration in the plant. Steve Sorenson, MD, And Mishulam's method was so mild and isolating it that he didn't isomerize it, but previous researchers were frustrated because Stephen Sills, They were using acidic reagents and other methods that were in the isolation of the active ingredient was isomerizing the double bond and confused the ultimate Stephen Sills, Stereochemical elucidation.

1:03:45Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what happens is if, so think of it like this way, so If you if you're looking at the structure of THC that north ring the ring at the top most part of the structure you see the double bond is pointed towards the phenolic portion of the molecule which is where the benzene ring is right and so that's what's called the delta 9 configuration and delta 9 would rather be in delta 8 because when that isomerizes it moves at one more carbon Thank you.

1:04:17Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:04:46Dr Mark ScialdoneJohn MacDonald, Is a CBD can be chemically converted into either delta eight or delta nine THC right now, a lot of hemp producers because of the price of CBD. John MacDonald, Has tanked you know CBD isolate is like, you know, a year ago it was multiple thousands of dollars a kilogram. Now it's just hundreds of dollars a kilogram. So it's really tanked. Part of that is just supply demand economics.

1:05:15Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's so much of it available. The FDA has not given the green light for food manufacturers to be able to put this into food products. So there's a lot of production. There's a lot of it on the market. So that basically puts a downward pressure Steven Banks, MD, On the price of CBD. So these manufacturers are looking to do something to make some money. So they're converting it over into Delta eight.

1:05:39Dr Mark ScialdoneNow, Delta eight is less psychoactive than Delta nine. I've seen a couple different papers where they look at the binding constant to the CB one receptor. But what I can tell you universally is I've had some Delta-8 distillate and it's heavy, it gets you high, but I've never been kind of like knocked over, bowled over like you do get like I think on THC. I think you could actually noticeably feel the difference.

1:06:06Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know if other people feel that way too, but the last thing I'll say just about Delta-8 is that unfortunately it falls into the tetrahydrocannabinoid

1:06:18Dr Mark ScialdoneAll code 7370 of the Controlled Dangerous Substance Act to get that out, which even though it was derived from Farm Bill Legal Hemp, you're now making an isomer that the DEA doesn't give a shit where it came from. They issued something called an interim final ruling about six or eight months ago to try to harmonize the Controlled Dangerous Substance Act with the Farm Bill just to let people know that You know, THC and its isomers, including Delta-8 are all code 7370 covered under the Under Control of Dangerous Substance Act.

1:06:57Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd again, it's like quasi-legal because you've made the hemp and you've made the CBD from which it's derived legal, right? So that's legal. And people, there's transactions that are happening where people are buying and selling Steve Brown, CBD hemp biomass and people are actually smoking flower. Check this out. People are actually taking CBD isolate, converting it to Delta eight and then spraying it back on hemp to make middies.

1:07:30Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was like the world needs more middies. Why? You know, but it's interesting because again, it's just, it's chemistry that actually Mishulam described. And, you know, we were mentioning patents. Mishulam actually patented this. But I think that this is sort of a gray area right now, Wade. I don't really know whether or not the DEA has the muscle and the enforcement to basically go after hemp manufacturers who are flying the farm bill flag saying, hey, we're processing hemp.

1:08:05Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's below 0.3 in THC when it comes in the building. How we process it, we're processing it. We're turning it into products that the market Once a lot of the regulated Delta 9 markets, those people who have to pay through the eyeballs to get licenses and get background checks on everyone and do retinal scanners and have millions of dollars to get They don't want the Delta 8 industry to happen, right?

1:08:33Dr Mark ScialdoneBecause they're going to eat the market share. They want these people to go to the dispensary and buy their licensed Delta 9 products. So there's going to be some kind of thing that's going to happen going forward to try to harmonize these two things. But that's for all and my little.

1:08:48WadeSo if I could.

1:08:52WadeWhat I'm hearing you say is that the amount of Delta-8 products that are starting to show up across the country at this point, it's really either folks moving CBD into Delta-8 isomerization or other aggressive...

1:09:11Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, let me add one thing, Wade. So it's either that or the boys over at, I think, Guild noticeably, the Guild Extracts in California. But people who are using bleaching and decolorizing clays first started noticing Delta 8 showing up in their distillates. And some of the testing labs, and Alec would be great to comment on this, were like, wait a second, that's not Delta 9, that's Delta 8.

1:09:37Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it was beautifully clear distillate because the bleaching clays There is no bleach. There's no sodium hypochlorite. They're just called bleaching clays because they remove color. And these are standard things that remove color in the essential oils industry and soybean oil and vegetable oil. All that shit is decolorized. And typically they use these type of Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:10:20Dr Mark ScialdoneThey're like, oh, we meant to make this. So then they became the Delta 8 company and talked about how we were making clear Delta 8 distillate. So I think that that actually predated people using the acid catalyzed process to convert CBD into Delta 8, which is now what you see mostly on the markets, I think, are coming from hemp producers out west.

1:10:46WadeYeah, the first time I first time I ran into Delta eight in a test result was one of our manufacturers was trying to clean up a batch of cannabis that had, I think it was spinosad in it. And he was doing a chlorine bleach. And yeah, what we got back, it had a bunch of Delta eight. And I couldn't find much science at that point on how Delta eight affects patients.

1:11:11WadeAgain, you know, but I heard you reference earlier that you had seen some papers recently.

1:11:18Dr Mark ScialdoneIt feels like a THC wood, but it feels less potent. It just, it doesn't, it doesn't quite do it for me. But I know some people love it. And certainly, like, I guess if you're used to smoking hemp flour, and now you got hemp flour sprayed with Delta-8, it just took a circuitous way of getting back to the flour, right? Thank you, Mark.

1:11:41SpeakerMark, did you know that for the last few years, people have been marketing high CBD-8 cannabis? But the truth of it is, as we both know, cannabis does not produce Delta-8. It's a degradation product.

1:12:02Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I always thought that that was the case because if you look at the biosynthetic pathway, the way the molecule comes together from CBGA, yeah, it's an intermolecular cyclization and it makes one particular configuration. Absolutely.

1:12:21SpeakerIt would have a plant synthase that would produce Delta A.

1:12:28Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was really interesting. What we found, and I think I gave a talk on this at American Chemical Society National Meeting a couple of years ago, which was we took Delta 9 THCA that was purified, and we actually isolated The Delta eight acid by isomerizing the Delta nine over to Delta eight without decarboxylating it. And so we had some analytical data that supported that. So that was kind of cool because there wasn't really too many reports of that.

1:13:08Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, but I agree with what you're saying. I think only Delta nine is what occurs in the plant.

1:13:15SpeakerMark, you had Delta eight A. Yes.

1:13:23Dr Mark ScialdoneYes.

1:13:25SpeakerYeah, cool.

1:13:26Dr Mark ScialdoneIsn't that cool?

1:13:28SpeakerIt's way harder to find the eight.

1:13:31Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so I thought we were the first people to identify that, but actually came to my talk and pointed out that there was a Roger Pertwee paper from a number of years ago where he and Hannes had actually spectrally characterized it. So, but it's very, it's buried in the middle of a tetrahedron letters paper from the middle of the 80s. You would not necessarily find it by looking for it.

1:14:01Dr Mark ScialdoneBut man, there's a lot of gems out there. It's really cool.

1:14:05BubblemanI didn't even notice that Josh and Alec came into the room. So welcome to both of you. And sorry for that, for not welcoming you right away.

1:14:15SpeakerPlease. Good morning, everybody. Happy House Church. Happy Hash Church.

1:14:21Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd blessing to the family. Never want to interrupt a good conversation. So that's super interesting.

1:14:27SpeakerHi, everybody. Good morning. Happy Hash Church.

1:14:30BubblemanGood morning, Kelly. Thank you for breaking up this absolute sausage party. We got to get more women in here. There's just no doubt about it.

1:14:39SpeakerIt's a good one.

1:14:40BubblemanWe appreciate you. We appreciate you. Awesome.

1:14:46Dr Mark ScialdoneKelly, can you do me a favor, Kelly? Yeah. Tell me that I'm important.

1:14:53SpeakerYou are so important, Mark. You don't even know it. You know how important I feel that you are.

1:15:01BubblemanMe too. I love it.

1:15:01SpeakerI tell you that all the time.

1:15:04Dr Mark ScialdoneI just love you, Mark. That's important.

1:15:07SpeakerImportant but needy.

1:15:10BubblemanImportant but needy.

1:15:12SpeakerThat's it.

1:15:14BubblemanOh yeah, lots of mansplaining going on. You know, I got into a conversation with my friend the other day about mansplaining and she was going off on how she's like, oh, like men just constantly mansplaining to women. And I said, listen, no offense, but that's not a gender thing. Men mansplain to men as much as they do it to women. It's our disease.

1:15:35Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut isn't there womansplaining?

1:15:38BubblemanI don't know. I just think of it as like the voice of reason. I just think of it as the voice of reason personally.

1:15:48SpeakerI really appreciate all of the talk. I've been sort of in the background getting some stuff done. And, you know, women explain it differently. And I've been really appreciating the conversation this morning. It's definitely got a tonality of masculinity, but I think that that's really awesome. And I appreciate that week after week. So thanks so much, everybody, you guys, for, you know, talking about the plants with such high regards and love.

1:16:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHey, I try to say, you know, there is a thing called male intuition. Male intuition actually exists. So, you know, you know, be intuitive, you know. Hey, Mark, I was wondering, have you ever done any extracting of endophytic fungi or bacteria from from plants?

1:16:35Dr Mark ScialdoneI haven't, but more people are asking me about that every day. We talked a little bit about this last week just because there's been more You know municipalities that are now making you know fungi you know or decriminalizing it or making it available and actually had a conversation with Alec on whether or not the analytical labs that are in place now for the cannabis industry are going to start doing the analytical you know testing for some of these you know fungal Dr. Mark Ghaly, MD, M.D.

1:17:09Dr Mark Scialdone: Type type products because, as you know, I mean having good analytical methods is really important for accurate dosing, especially if you're talking about. Dr. Mark Ghaly, MD, M.D. : You know medicine for people who don't want the high of the psychedelic experience, but perhaps needed to control depression or other things. Dr. Mark Ghaly, MD, M.D. : I had an old friend reach out to me, who said, you know cannabis just isn't doing it for my depression anymore and i'm not.

1:17:36Dr Mark ScialdoneWell enough verse to understand where psychedelics can help, but I'm reading up on it a lot and just finding a lot of just great work going on right now. Actually, a lot of government-funded work right now on both MDMA and psilocybin to treat all kinds of conditions. The paper I was just reading yesterday, Josh, was really cool. It was talking about stage four cancer patients getting MDMA and having basically an MDMA experience to kind of help their body understand what their medical condition's all about and trying to get their mind to think about positive ways of healing themselves.

1:18:26Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it's just so just powerful and just, yeah, a lot of great work being done right now, man. So cool. Crystal ball, right? The scientific literature, it's out there for everybody to look into.

1:18:38SpeakerYeah. And the more I go down the long roads of the microbiome, the more that we're really realizing that health and wellbeing on emotional level, physical level, spiritual level, We're going to be talking about the endophytic reactions that are going on within the plant. And we're going to be counting bacteria and different species and

1:19:21SpeakerThat's going to be the way that we're going to be able to tell how healthy the plants are, as well as how much medicine the plant is providing for patients.

1:19:29Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd also, I mean, and to say, are you extracting endophytic fungi and bacteria from plants isn't really a psychedelic question. It's more, there's, you know, 30 to more, there's different endophytic fungi that the plant pulls out of the soil, right? Thank you for joining us today.

1:20:12Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut and we said this before, but they took all the bark off the off the tree, you know, all through the 90s and left the tree out in the woods because they were extracting taxol from the bark. But after further studies and further scientific studies, they realized it was the endophytic fungi in the cambium layer that was also producing taxol and in some cases producing it more than what was in the bark.

1:20:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo it was possible. And this is, you know, more into the science realm, you know, more than where I'm at, you know, where we're at more intuitive nature lovers. But in science, you can extract these compounds and the plant is pulling up bacteria and fungi into the plant and putting it back into the soil. It's replicating those organizms in its body and it's putting it back into the soil.

1:21:05Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThose compounds are also capable of producing secondary metabolites, you know, outside of, I'm coming down with Rona. Someone just wrote me. No, I'm all good, bro.

1:21:20SpeakerJust got a short throat.

1:21:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut anyway, I know the cannabis plant has these compounds and I don't see that we're studying them yet. And it may be that, you know, there's a thousand acres of hemp. You know, holding endophytic fungi and bacteria that we don't know about that we can extract and use for our health and wellbeing. I feel like it's, it's a new frontier. You know, there's a few universities that are studying it, you know, and then, and then also You know, there's psychedelic fungi in that whole entire realm of breaking the chain and stopping, you know, not having the boundaries and the chains that bind you.

1:21:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd that's what I love.

1:21:59Dr Mark ScialdoneSo nice thing about these compounds. The nice thing about those compounds, Josh, is that they're water soluble. So, you know, we're in cannabis. Everything is oil soluble, not very water soluble. You can use pretty conventional methods to make a mushroom tea, for example. Blue juice. Right.

1:22:20BubblemanYou know, the blue juice. Oh, I've looked at my 300 liter Whistler reactor a few times and been like, probably whip up a nice batch of blue juice in that reactor.

1:22:36Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so Mark, is that like a standardized product that you think like one of these markets like in Oregon that's legalized psychedelics can actually, you can go and buy your little shot of blue juice at the convenience store someday or, I mean?

1:22:52BubblemanWell, I sure hope so. I mean, my goodness, listen, cannabis has been amazing for the sort of, I mean, I don't want to say it hasn't been amazing for the mental as well as the physical, but sort of on this plane. And now we're bringing in the psychedelics, which is going to help us in that sort of spiritual plane in that sort of, you know, the mental health plane, people are hurting and people end up taking lithium and all sorts of drugs.

1:23:16BubblemanDrugs that fuck with your brain chemistry that are created by companies and sold under the name pharmaceutical, which if you drop the P, it's got the harm right there in the word H-A-R-M, like they're not even trying to hide it. I think of that as one of the biggest things coming in the queue right now is when people who are seriously suffering from mental health and mental illness can go and take these journeys with these plant medicines and, you know, So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

1:24:09BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

1:24:39BubblemanAnd so that's pretty potent.

1:24:44SpeakerI mean, psychedelics has just catapulted us to the level where we're at right now. I think that the entrance of mushrooms allowed humanity to think outside of just the agrarian sort of work that they were doing at the time and allowed them to create spirituality. And now here we are with psychedelics coming out on a new realm Of course, I do believe that cannabis has opened the door for the psychedelics.

1:25:15SpeakerShe is the one that's holding the door wide open for people to actually recognize that plant medicine is totally incredibly powerful and how like here we are now in this new great awakening of, you know, psychedelics, regular people are talking about it. People are looking towards plant medicine to heal themselves with pharmaceuticals. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:25:54SpeakerThere has to be some kind of a drop from outside of it so that our collective consciousness can build off of something like that. And I think that we owe so much to plant medicines as to why we are the human beings that we are and the collective consciousness that we are.

1:26:17BubblemanAnd on that note, everyone, grab your five grams of dried mushrooms. We're going to start the consumption part of the ritual.

1:26:24Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd that's what we mean by 5G.

1:26:28BubblemanYeah, don't be against 5G. 5G is powerful. All these people that are against 5G, listen, yes, it will melt your brain, but in a very good way. And when it precipitates back into a solid, you'll be better for it. So just don't be afraid of 5G, please.

1:26:43Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI like the Terrence McKenna 5G, like, you know, Drake thing that says... No to the 5G tower and yes to the 5G mushrooms.

1:26:55Speaker5D. It's the 5D.

1:26:58Dr Mark ScialdoneHas anyone seen that Jim Carrey movie where Jim Carrey plays Terrence McKenna?

1:27:05Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineNo.

1:27:05BubblemanDid it actually happen? I thought it was fake. I looked into it. There was no movie. It was just someone created like an ad for it, but I never actually saw any video of it.

1:27:19Dr Mark ScialdoneI thought it was a movie that was released in like 2017 or something like that. Is that not right?

1:27:25BubblemanI could never find it. All I found was that it was like someone like a fan based thing. They took a picture of Jim with a beard and put it in and then covered him in mushrooms and plants and made this super cool advert. And it was it was fake. As Bingo Lombardi has just confirmed in chat. We all know Bingo's never wrong about anything. So I'll take that as the word of God, Bingo.

1:27:49BubblemanYou were right. And Dr. Mark was wrong. You can write that down, Bingo.

1:27:53Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, no, no, no. Dr. Mark was wrong. I was asking about it. I wanted to, you know, we're looking for things like watch on Netflix. And I wanted to know if anyone had seen that or, you know.

1:28:04BubblemanHoax, hoax, hoax. You're spreading false information, Mark.

1:28:09Dr Mark ScialdoneFake news.

1:28:09BubblemanNo, not this week. Deep fake technology.

1:28:17Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI always spend some time with Terrence McKenna on the Big Island in Kealakekua Bay. You know, on the Big Island was where Terrence McKenna's property is. And that's where we had Dr. Allison on here before. And she works with Leanne Standish. And, you know, and there's People in the network that are taking care of the property and everything, the ayahuasca vines, 50 years old and everything.

1:28:42SpeakerAnd all the cactus too. So they're taking care of the cactus there. Yeah, I was super blessed to meet Terrence. I hung out with him for a whole week and a half out on the island. We kept meeting at 5 a.m. to go see the dolphins at Kealakakua. And I was just sitting with this guy and talking with him and having the most incredible conversations about I was like, wait a minute.

1:29:23SpeakerAre you Terrence McKenna? And he said, yeah, you know, I am. We never really introduced ourselves. So I was really thankful for those, you know, mid 80s, late 80s, you know, late night a.m. So that that's how I recognized that it was Terrence. And we became friends. And what an amazing guy. Just even spending that time with him, you know, talk about catapulting. I go back to that conversation, those conversations that we had.

1:29:51SpeakerThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:30:21BubblemanYou know, from his tapes from the SLM Institute and some of these other tapes and people in our community in Winnipeg, Manitoba, they did not know who Terence McKenna was. It was very random that we somehow accidentally stumbled upon him. Absolutely read The Invisible Landscape. That's an amazing book. Read True Hallucinations, The Archaic Revival. Food of the Gods, you know, every article he ever wrote in every magazine, all of his lectures, including the ones with Rupert Sheldrake and Ralph Abraham.

1:30:52BubblemanI went deep on Terrence. He was probably, you know, one of one of the people that affected me a great, great deal when I was younger and got, you know, we ordered our spores from him and his wife, Kat. From the big island that you're talking about, that's where those syzygy spores came from that him and his brother Dennis collected in the Amazon back in the late 70s before they wrote the book, The Mushroom Grower's Guide on How to Grow Psychedelic Mushrooms Indoors.

1:31:19BubblemanAnd that book was the book we used with the spores to actually grow these mushrooms. And so for me, I will always have a huge place in my soul for the information that Terrence and Kenneth shared. I agree.

1:31:34SpeakerYeah, I totally agree. I feel like he's given so much to me. And I feel like more than anything, he's given me an incredible sense of humor on psychedelics. Like, I think of Terrence McKenna when I'm on psychedelics and for some reason, just the hilarity comes out, you know, where you're just like, wow, this world is fucking hilarious. And I can't believe I was so serious about it last week.

1:32:03SpeakerHe like really has, you know, opened up the doors to let go of what we don't laugh at ourselves about. Shit, humans are hilarious.

1:32:16BubblemanAnd Terrence had that gift. He was sharp and had the gift of gab, obviously, and could just say things that just, you know, you would erupt into laughter. And I was the same way, you know, be tripping balls, kind of like, like almost like just uncomfortably high. And then think of Terrence and think of all the words that he prepared. I'll tell you one thing. That was the preparation for large-scale mushroom tripping because that whole Timothy Leary thing with the Book of the Dead and like recording his voice, reading it to himself, like if any of you ever listened to Tim, you'd know that one of his worst trips ever was listening to the Book of Dead while he was tripping balls in his voice.

1:32:58BubblemanHe had recorded it himself because he couldn't read the book and he thought, well, I want to read the book while I'm high. So that was kind of the way to lead yourself to a bad trip. Whereas the Terrence lectures and all of what he was sharing was just so inspirational and so, you know, and putting himself out there and shipping those spores around the world at a time when, holy Christ, like they could have easily hammered down on him and put him in jail for 10 years.

1:33:26BubblemanBut You know, he kept, he still was doing it. So no doubt a huge props to Terrence McKenna. And Miss McKenna.

1:33:35SpeakerYeah, and I need to give props for the bad trips too. So, you know, the bad trips have given me the most important lessons of my entire life. And I don't know if bad is quite the word, you know, just like your friend. The intense trips. Yeah, the intense trips. The ones that just don't compartmentalize so easy. human beings are such incredible compartmentalizers that if it doesn't compute and it doesn't compartmentalize then maybe if it's an unknown then be afraid of it and i think that you know that's that's something that uh hopefully we're going to be able to break down with the new entrance of psychedelics you know that need to compartmentalize human beings

1:34:17BubblemanResistance creates strength. And, you know, if you don't believe it, just lift weights. Like if you lift weights, that resistance will create strength in your muscles. And it's really no difference for the resistance of an intense trip and whether or not, you know, it's almost like a psychic puzzle that you're involved in. And depending on, you know, not your ego, but allowing your soul to project its true feeling.

1:34:43BubblemanIt's that true like love experience. If you can do that, you can transform. And that's what the Buddhists talk about, transforming pain and anguish. You transform that. When someone passes on, you don't have to cry and be sad because you were happy they were here and you know they're not actually gone. They've just transformed. It's a different filter of looking through. And so, Yeah, huge, huge props to that.

1:35:08SpeakerAnd, you know, it's like the big questions and the reason why we have science and the reason why we have all, you know, the Buddhists say that the greatest disease of humanity is the need to know why. And it's like, I think that more than anything, we're all just really wondering where did we come from and where are we going? I mean, really and truly everything else is noise and fluff in between.

1:35:33SpeakerEverything that we're talking about is trying to give us little tiny tidbits of where we're going to go now that we're here. And it's so beautiful that plant medicine really helped us align with either A, giving us those answers or B, helping us realize that those answers are not important at all. That we're here and that just being here is good enough. And that helps open us to those possibilities.

1:36:02Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd big up, Alec. Alec was wanting to say, and my man, what's up, Ganja Gill in the house today.

1:36:10BubblemanWelcome, guys.

1:36:13SpeakerI just wanted to jump in real quick on the Terrence McKenna conversation, bless his soul. And yeah, Dennis McKenna too, because these are legends. But yeah, it's fascinating how Terrence McKenna had selected, identified a chemovar of Banisteriopsis capi and brought it out to Hawaii. And they planted the ayahuasca vine out in Hawaii. And since then, it's become essentially an invasive weed or an invasive plant in this way.

1:36:42SpeakerAnd so- So it's actually to see how it's growing in Hawaii. And the vine itself, it's a woody liana, or it's a liana, which is a woody vine. And it grows and stretches to kind of catch the sun. And over its life, I've heard some really cool stories about the plant over its, you know, in the jungle in Brazil and Amazon and Peru.

1:37:11SpeakerThe vine will kind of catch up to kind of catch the sun. It'll, it'll kind of, it'll pull, you know, as it grows, it'll actually pull trees down out of the ground to open up the canopy of the forest so that it can kind of open up light. And then it brings in all kinds of other life and, you know, the below canopy. But, but the vine is, is, is that it's fascinating how much it's kind of, kind of spreading on the island of Hawaii, you know, and just similar to like eucalyptus for better or for worse.

1:37:39SpeakerBut as far as it goes on the global kind of conservation effort to, you know, plant more of the vine as consumption and, and popularity of ayahuasca kind of, you know, continues to grow, you know, just the whole concept of brand cultivate or conservation, you know, currently we can, I can't have really has made a major effect in that, you know, post, you know, post illness.

1:38:05BubblemanAbsolutely. Well said, Alex. Thanks for sharing. Mark Rose, my manufacturer, who from in Nepal, says he grew the spores in Kathmandu back in 1998. And then they went wild in the Rose Garden in the front yard. So he just shared that. I just wanted to say one more thing before we give Gil the floor and let him come in and say hello, which was that imagine if life itself is a dissociative.

1:38:34BubblemanWe're not supposed to know where we came from and we're not supposed to know where we're going. We can get little glimpses and little flashes and this is the whole experience. This is why this is so fun and so terrifying simultaneously here on planet Earth. But I'm certain that we're not supposed to know where we came from and we're not supposed to know where we're going because if we did, it would affect the experience and the experience is why we're all here.

1:39:02BubblemanSo yeah, welcome Ganja Gill.

1:39:08Ganja GillMorning, everyone. Thank you very much for having me on as always. It's a pleasure to be here with you guys. It's nice to hear your voice. I'm not sure I have too much to contribute to the conversation at this current moment, but again, I'm just stoked to be here with you all this morning. It's been warmer in California than it should be recently. It's been real warm.

1:39:33Ganja GillStill kind of waiting for winter to come. Hopefully it comes. But feeling good, dude. Another beautiful day. I'm psyched to actually sit here and relax this Sunday morning with you guys and smoke some hash and listen to the conversation.

1:39:47BubblemanWell, if that's not what it's all about right there in a nutshell, I mean, if we had a mission statement here at Hash Church, Gil just spit it out. So there it is. Welcome. Welcome, man. Oh, we got the chat going on. Go ahead, Joe.

1:40:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhat are some of the strains you've been washing in the last week, Gil?

1:40:11Ganja GillI kind of took a different approach this year, actually. And like I grew a lot from seed. Being in California, I have access to a lot of desirable clone only genetics. And this past year, I grew pretty much strictly seed. I kind of like go back and forth. It's funny, you know, like one year ago, like grow all clones. And then I'm like, oh, that was boring.

1:40:35Ganja GillNow I want to do seeds and I'll do seeds and then crack like way more seeds than I need. And like end up getting way more males than I thought I would. Or, you know, the roly polies will eat all my seedlings or, you know, it ends up being always a lot of work. So sometimes after a seed season, I get a little lit like, oh, man, I'm going to put the training wheels back on and just get some clones and keep it easy, you know.

1:40:58Ganja GillBut the seed thing really worked out really well for me this year. I kind of, it's all mixed phenol washes because, you know, I don't have a very large garden. And I chose to grow about 35 different varieties, not phenols, but varieties. So a small garden, you can imagine it's all small batch. But that's kind of what I wanted to do this year. Last year, I only did like a handful of like big dumper hash streams.

1:41:25Ganja GillAnd it was cool, but it kind of like lost its interest after a little while, you know, after you wash so many barrels of the same strain, it's kind of like, oh, I know what it's going to do. You know, like if you press the same strain over and over again, you know what it's going to do. So this past year, like I said, I grew like 30 different varieties and it's been super fun just to do these little batches and see what they do.

1:41:46Ganja GillAnd at first I was kind of like, I had mixed feelings about the mixed phenol washes, you know, like, Oh, is it kind of generic? You know, you should really be selecting the one and whatnot. But I started to kind of think about it more. And I feel like, you know, when you look at like, you know, let's be real, I've cracked mostly 10 packs of seeds, you know, just small 12 packs, whatever.

1:42:08Ganja GillYou know, in a 10 pack, you probably feel like, you know, half of them will lean towards the mom, half of them will lead towards, you know, the dad and, you know, a few come in between. And I started to think about it and I'm like, oh, that's kind of a good representation of the actual, the cultivar, because it's like got a little bit of this, got a little bit of that pulling from all of it, you know, so maybe it's not so much generic as much as it's like a pretty good representation of it.

1:42:33Ganja GillAnd it's been working really well yield wise. It's definitely interesting to watch the different quality of resins interact with one another in the same bag. You know, you can definitely see certain resins kind of starting to dissolve. The other one, but it's worked out really good. And it's been really fun. And I've been doing a lot of papaya crosses. Papaya is really popular in California this year.

1:42:58Ganja GillSo did a lot of papaya stuff. That kid Masonic down in Compton, he just dusts everything with the same mail, that Wilson mail he has. Wilson is... Papaya times banana OG crossed with Tropicana Cookie F2. And just a real solid male that he hits everything with. And I definitely cracked a bunch of seeds from him. And they all did really well, man. They all were tropical island, cocktail fruit, pineapple, banana turps, you know, which I like funk myself.

1:43:34Ganja GillI'm really into the gas stuff. But it seems like my area, California, really likes that fruity turp stuff. And I don't know, he kind of keep the people happy and whatnot but uh yeah just uh this week i washed some chem d cross with day glow from someone out of uh colorado was really really good did really great then i did the chem d to purple og that one came out purple it was really cool to see the purple resin but like didn't really yield well um uh What else do I got in the freeze dryer right now?

1:44:09Ganja GillI got Wilson Zero in there right now, which is original Wilson from Oni Noodles, which is just his original Wilson, the Banana OG Papaya Tropicana. That's in the freeze dryer right now, and it's looking really good.

1:44:23Dr Mark ScialdoneIs this a fish head that's naming these strains Wilson?

1:44:28Ganja GillSo that's so funny that you say that, because... It's not, believe it or not. I always thought the same thing. And I told them that I'm like, you guys know about the Wilson tune? And like, most of them don't. What it is, is it's again, banana OG, papaya, Tropicana cookie. So it smells like a tropical island. So I guess from that movie Castaway, I never saw it myself, but it's got a, what's his name?

1:44:53Ganja GillTom Hanks in it. The volleyball. Wilson ball. Yeah, so that's it. Yeah, that's where the Wilson comes from, supposedly, I guess.

1:45:04BubblemanYeah.

1:45:05Ganja GillIsland Terps.

1:45:06BubblemanIs that Wilson with 19 L's?

1:45:09Collin PalmerWilson!

1:45:12Ganja GillI don't know about that, Marcus. As far as I know, like I said, it's the one from Ani Noodles, O-N-I. I was just being silly. Okay, I'm sorry, dude. I'm...

1:45:23BubblemanIf you ever heard Phish sing the song, Wilson, there's about 19 L's in there.

1:45:29Ganja GillWell, there you go. Now I understand. Sorry, sorry, sorry. They don't spell it that way.

1:45:36BubblemanI wanted to mention in regards to you talking about mixed cultivars and kind of the difference, and I'm sure Sam will probably want to tap in here at one point, because back in the day, And I don't know if this was pre-71 or what, when Sam, but was there not like a time where in Afghanistan they were growing type one and type two plants, you know, having that sort of selection and just, it was reminiscent when he started talking about like mixing all the phenols from a seed batch in and how I can kind of see us getting there as we go into this isolating cultivars, isolating resin gland heads to the point where we may do a full circle.

1:46:13BubblemanAnd now it's like, you know what? I want to run this whole field. And I want to create a profile, you know, probably one that's never going to be recreated, but something that would still have its place and be considered special by any accounts. I would love to see that happen. And as you were talking about throwing in multiple, you know, all the different phenols to really get an idea.

1:46:37BubblemanYeah, full field, full field, fresh frozen, full field.

1:46:41SpeakerYeah.

1:46:44Bryan Best Friend FarmsBe nice. Shifting something. I'm going to shift our grow outside next year into more strain selection. Well, just, you know, many phenos, same thing we're talking about. It's interesting to hear Gil talking about it. I could see getting bored with it also perhaps, but I am interested to see whole bed sets just go to one strain type from my breeding with my sharp for sure. And then some headband shilky that I just bred too are just dropping.

1:47:13Bryan Best Friend FarmsUm, amazing amounts of hash and really good quality. And I just want to lock in more on the, the, you know, terpene profile to match up to it, you know, up to the dump. So, yeah.

1:47:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI like that you're rocking the headbands still. I mean, that's such a beautiful string, you know, over the years and there's just whole varietals of it.

1:47:42Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, it's holy grail. It's like a breeding cornerstone for even things like my gas mask completely lends to that. You know, the Mac and the kosher don't hurt, but it definitely goes back to the headband grease that we pull. And then to go back to the bubble bags, you know, that's like just pulling this greasy, greasy, dank resin. We just washed a couple whole plant from the greenhouse for cured resin, dry flower wash from Sun Grown.

1:48:09Bryan Best Friend FarmsAnd then the it's air dried, but the nugget, like the 90 to 120 coming off is so goopy that it has more oxidization on the crust, you know, outside of the bubble, you know, nuggets, you can barely do anything. If you look at them, they melt. And it was both the diesel and the headband just dropped it like that. The D-band came out a lot lighter, less oxidization seemed like a little bit more quality grow.

1:48:36Bryan Best Friend FarmsBut yeah, amazing for a fuel type in Maine actually into the greenhouse. And it wasn't the prettiest on the finish, but even just tended well by hand, hand cut dry barn storage for two to three months, you know, controlled temp humidity in the bin, really clean take down. But we do large whole plant sections. We don't take any much leaf off after defoliation from, you know, into flower where we're opening up sites, getting air.

1:49:04Bryan Best Friend FarmsWe don't take anything off really thereafter until, you know, it's time to trim it by hand dry. So great results, whole plant dried flower, you know, dried, cured resin bubble lately, like crazy.

1:49:19BubblemanI feel like if I had less of integrity than I do, I'd have these really cheesy kind of like, this conversation is brought to you by bubble bags, you know, and have this whole sort of cheesy advertisement in the middle. But the whole time you were talking, I just felt like, man, you are definitely a professional grower and hash maker. Like even just the way you explain your process, it's just like, damn, this guy's like a lifer.

1:49:44BubblemanHe's in this.

1:49:47Dr Mark ScialdoneOxidation, not oxidization. You're adding an extra syllable in there. So just say oxidation. Everybody say oxidation.

1:49:59BubblemanOxidation.

1:50:01Dr Mark ScialdoneOxidation. Thanks, Dr. Mark.

1:50:03BubblemanYou're keeping us smarter.

1:50:06Collin PalmerBrian, those photos look really incredible, man. Tiger stripes. Is that what you're working with right now? Yeah, you got to get up there and check that out.

1:50:17Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, I'd love to share. I'd love to share out some genetics too. I've been meaning to as well. Yeah, I did like some really nice work from the gas mask out. I'm super impressed with that chart. Kind of like a comic name on it. But it's what it is, is it hits that it's a lime kush GMO triangle kush skunk on on the other end for the show key.

1:50:40Bryan Best Friend FarmsSo we've seen that do amazing things for hash already on its own. And it was a nice dude that went in on a selected dude from the crew for that's a swan boys seeds genetics. And yeah, we got like this lime to apricot turn on the gas this time with that one phenotype. It's definitely GMO skunk heavy. You know, shout out to skunk, skunk man. It's got skunk all over.

1:51:05Bryan Best Friend FarmsIt's kind of like a baby pukey sweet, really, really raunchy, sharp cheddar type thing. And we'll see how it washes. Haven't washed quite yet on that one.

1:51:16Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's the water on these things like? And you have, again, same question to you that I asked Marcus earlier. What do you do with the water? Is there anything you could do with it or you just discard it or?

1:51:27Bryan Best Friend FarmsWe're discarding it. We're a smaller batch when we do, like Gil, when we wash, we're not a big setup. We're so low tech, honestly, it's kind of funny even. But we're, you know, we're learning to bump up our volume. Our water goes to waste at this point. We compost everything else. We just really, really love our compost. So I know I could tell you on the farm, we give waste to that.

1:51:50Bryan Best Friend FarmsBut yeah, I haven't dabbled into the water. We've talked about the water, like how to isolate it, chill it. Almost how to serve it if somebody were interested in wanting to actually drink some of these things. The fruity ones smell kind of good.

1:52:06Dr Mark ScialdoneAt some certain scale. And again, Marcus, I don't know if you could comment to this, but can you, you could almost steam distill that, that terpene.

1:52:15BubblemanI know where you're going. Listen, this takes us back, okay? This takes us back to about maybe 2014. How old is Hash Church? Are we like six years old? What the hell? Okay, so get this. Kay from Tricome Technologies hits me up one day, and he's like working with Sasha Shulgin, doing Terps and stuff, and he says, listen, I'm going to give you a gold... No, no, he doesn't talk to me, dude, at all.

1:52:45BubblemanHe won't even reply to me when I hit him up and say, please, let's be friends. Like, I'm sorry. Like, when I partnered up with Tony, that was like the ultimate slap in his face, selling the Terps. But listen, it gets better. This is how it starts. This is why. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I also don't speak with Todd anymore. So neither there, neither there. What I wanted to say was this.

1:53:09BubblemanSo, He calls me up. He tells me, listen, I'm going to give you a gold nugget. You need to figure out a way to get the terpenes out of the bubble water and like put back into the hash. That's it. You figure that out. You're laughing. And I was kind of like, OK, yeah, that sounds, you know, it's not like I haven't thought of that, you know, but and realize that I don't have the tools to get such a thing done.

1:53:30BubblemanSo I phone two people and I tell Tony. And I tell Horatio and I say, hey, listen, like you guys need to figure out how to get the bubble water, the terpenes out of the bubble water. You guys got access to labs and you can do this. Get her done. Well, this is only my guess, but my guess is that Tony at the time was at a pretty big lab visiting in Florida.

1:54:01BubblemanAnd I suspect he was standing next to a chemist that worked in that lab and said, hey, how could I get terpenes off of plants? And the guy was probably like, you can steam distill them or hydrovac diffuse them. As long as you use a chiller to precipitate your vapor, it'll precipitate clear instead of yellow because it's generally in that process that it goes yellow, which I didn't know.

1:54:24BubblemanBut I talked to a chemist myself and that's what they said. And I see Mark waving his head up and down, not interrupting me. So it must be correct. So anyway, Tony had like, okay, yeah, Tony had Terps. like a week later but from fly he didn't even bother with the water maybe it was even two weeks later but it was like we'd have to go back and we could look at hash church because that's how we'll be able to figure it out but it was quick and then i called horatio one more time and kind of busted his balls and i was like hey you know tony's got the turps what's going on horatio and he had them like i don't know two or three days later And that started a whole thing, which actually helped both of those guys.

1:55:04BubblemanAnd I think it helped the cannabis world and all of us have access to those terpenes and this dipping. And it was, we started Blue River, absolutely, 100%. Of course, that was the start of Blue River. So it was a really neat thing that all started here through Hash Church and with Kay. And so, you know, at that point, Kay was feeling that he, I don't know, he said he had a patent or something on all the ways you could make terpenes with cannabis.

1:55:31BubblemanAnd it just was, it just all went bad. I felt really terrible about it because now I don't really speak to any of those guys. And I kind of had, you know, I had love for all of them. I enjoyed talking with Todd. I enjoyed talking with Tony. I enjoyed talking with all of those guys. And so Kay, especially Kay, I'd known for almost 20 years. We wrote for Red Eye Magazine together back in the day when Nick We're still alive and doing that.

1:55:55BubblemanSo sometimes life plays out the way it does. You know, you can only help to figure it out and heal. So I'm sure there'll be a time in life where we can hopefully come to that point where it's just like because I know I play a part in it. I don't pretend to think that I don't go back together, man.

1:56:11Collin PalmerYou will. You guys are too close, man.

1:56:15Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I was there for it. He thought that somehow in Indra had gotten together with, there's a group out in California that was selling a cold trap that people were hooking up to their vacuum ovens because for a long time people didn't realize that these terpenes are fleeting. Fleeting meaning that you pull them with your vacuum, they're gone, they're out the exhaust. And so if you cold trap that, Steve Sorenson, And I don't know if you remember this episode, Mark, there was an episode of Hash Church where Tony was sitting in the lab for that episode and he had the cold finger in the back, but he was like really kind of like hush hush about showing exactly how he got this.

1:56:59Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd we see he had a couple vials in front of him that he was dabbing, but he didn't want to show his tech when, you know, we It was funny because you're absolutely right. The way you recall this timeline was absolutely correct because I had had several multiple hour long discussions with Horatio where I found out that my calling plan on Verizon didn't include Canada, but he can call me and talk for unlimited time.

1:57:26Dr Mark ScialdoneSo he would call me and we talked six to eight hours at a time. And I described You know, basically vacuum distillation and cold traps and all that. And he figured it out. And, and, um, we, I shared a lot of this with Tony because actually my coming on to hash church was at Horatio's insistence because Tony was trying to talk shit on this whole terpene isolation.

1:57:58Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd Horatio was sending me Facebook messages saying, Mark, you got to come on. Tony's talking shit on half the church again. You got to come on and set him straight.

1:58:09BubblemanHe never said that to me. He just said, I want to invite this chemist, Dr. Mark, on. And I said, all right, man.

1:58:15Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, that's how I came on. So how interesting that all these episodes later, here we are talking about it again. But still, even at Best Friends Farms level, I mean, I always feel like, you know, whenever you, I've only done small scale water hash production, and I always feel like, man, I want to do something with, I can't just like, what do I throw this away? No, there's shit in there.

1:58:40Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's stuff in there that I want. What are the right methods to isolate it and use it? Okay, what's this we're looking at?

1:58:50Ganja GillI don't really have a comment as far as isolating the terpenes out, but From a living soil situation or perspective, I had the pleasure of working with Steve Cantwell in Nevada at a Green Life Productions in the beginning of December. And he was so excited to just put it back into his soil. That's what he wanted to do with the water. And it totally makes sense. Organic.

1:59:19Ganja GillWe loaded it right in. You know, yeah, you know, I'm saying the plants, the plants respond to it and dragon flyers medicine.

1:59:26Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, terpenes is just low lying fruit, bacterias all over that shit and hours and that stuff is gone. Metabolized, mineralized, call what you will. It ain't terpenes anymore as soon as you add soil.

1:59:42Collin PalmerSome of the some of the cannabinoids are hydrophobic. So I would imagine, Mark, that, you know, I've done some experiments where you just you distill some things, you distill it down and try to collect that. And then you can use a little bit of that material to go back into.

1:59:58Dr Mark ScialdoneYou have no problem breaking down hydrophobic shit, hydrophobic, hydrophilic. They can break down everything except carbon bonded fluorine. They can't.

2:00:10Collin PalmerSo I think tinctures and other formulations that require the water, since in my setting I use all RO, everything's clean, so it's clean in, clean out. So you could use it in those specific use cases, such as different SKUs that have drinks or teas. I'd imagine a tea, that would be something that you could definitely look into. Um, there's, there's a lot. And then obviously feeding it back into your system.

2:00:39Collin PalmerIf you, um, if it checks all the boxes and you can do that in your respective environment, but that's what I've seen. But, uh, yeah, I think, um, if we had someone develop a system to kind of catch some of this stuff, I think it could be helpful.

2:00:55Dr Mark ScialdoneI would imagine that would have a limited shelf life. Like you couldn't just formulate it into say like a drink. And again, just to go back to the GMP discussion, you know, trying to standardize John MacDonald, Production and basically a waste product, something that's going to vary from batch to batch, have inconsistent level of terpenes because some things are more terpene rich than others. So not only with a terpene profile, what's in the water is going to change, but the amount's going to change.

2:01:25Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd for most farms, it may not be worth it again, just to return it back to the Soil is just a great utilization for it. I just imagine that again, if you try to store it without preserving it, It's going to foul pretty quickly. So that goes back to the cold chain.

2:01:43Collin PalmerIt's a cold chain item.

2:01:45Dr Mark ScialdoneCozies around the cans that get soaked with this material are probably going to end up smelling pretty foul unless you clean them out on a pretty regular basis. So again, that would be something that GMP would want a regular record of how often does that cozy get taken off that can? How often is it cleaned? What's the procedure? How do you know that it's cleaned? And, you know, so GNP just affects your production on a whole different scale that, you know, you don't necessarily think about when you're just doing small scale artisan type production.

2:02:22Collin PalmerAbsolutely. Yeah, I think the product would have to be cold chain through and through to your point. Otherwise, yeah, it's going to ferment. There's going to be.

2:02:29BubblemanWell, not only that, but it damn straight better be like fully organic and regenerative and sustainable and not like poisoned out at any point in time, because that's I wouldn't want to be pouring that into my plants. I wouldn't want to be drinking that. I wouldn't want to.

2:02:46Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI mean, definitely it's drinkable, like right out of the thing. You can just drink the water. I mean, and in a regenerative sense, right? Like that's the whole thing. You're just like, oh my God, I just made tea. Thank you. I'm going to drink this, you know.

2:03:00SpeakerWe've carbonated it before too and made like beautiful carbonated hash water out of it and served it up in gorgeous little champagne flutes. It was awesome.

2:03:13Dr Mark ScialdoneHave you fed it to animals?

2:03:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm wondering if for water, I think.

2:03:23Dr Mark ScialdoneYou broke up on us there. Did you say you fed it to animals?

2:03:30Ganja GillI know we put it under the microscope in Vegas, me and Steve. Hello?

2:03:35SpeakerNo.

2:03:36Ganja GillHey, is he still with us?

2:03:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineGo ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

2:03:42Dr Mark ScialdoneIf you can go, what's going on?

2:03:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYes.

2:03:50Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, never mind.

2:03:52Ganja GillGo ahead, Gil.

2:03:56Ganja GillOh, no, sorry, sorry. I'm still new to this, guys. I'm not used to all the group conversation online. I apologize to the listeners. But yeah, no, Steve was really excited. Like I said, give it back to the plants. And I'll say one time we were kind of like lazy about it. I'm not trying to like, we left it in the machine overnight, you know, like, and then cleaned it out the next day.

2:04:17Ganja GillAnd I'll say the water was drastically different than when the next time we evacuated it right away out of the large vessel into a tea brewer. You know, it was still very, very, very cold. Obviously, you know, we were using it for ice extraction. And overnight we brewed it, we aerated it. And when we came in, there was stuff going on in there. It was fairly barren, but like you'd find these little pockets of these like, you know, little communities starting to develop.

2:04:45Ganja GillAnd we definitely saw, you know, Baxillus, Rod Shaped Baxillus, some Oculus. Again, not definitely. I'll never say definitely because like I'm not really great at identifying stuff. You know, you got to really stare there and watch it move around for a while. But you saw some things, you know what I mean? And to me, it was promising. And that was cool. Obviously, you can't really see terpenes under the microscope per se.

2:05:10Ganja GillYou know, you're just seeing the biology. But the plants respond to it instantly. Like when he foliar sprayed it, you see the plants love it. He watered it in. I thought it was cool. He was really into it. To me, it's just a way to keep, you know, the loop close. Oh, definitely. Rather than nothing. But again, I'm sure Mark can tell us some more stuff or tell me what I just said was possibly wrong.

2:05:35Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWell, I would just add that, you know, like depending on the volume of hash that you're washing and the size of bed or the size of soil that you're working with, there is a level of residue that kind of comes with having, you know, this water, you know, so we found like if there, you know, if you were say doing it every single day and every watering you were using was hash water, You would start to see a little residue develop on the top of the soil.

2:06:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd we really find that that's the overdone part of it.

2:06:08SpeakerWe find that, you know, for like outdoor sun grown gardens and what we're doing is if we're washing our own hash, then we're we're putting the right amount of hash water back into the soil. If we were to be taking other people's hash or other people's material and turning into hash water, maybe it would be too much. But it seems like in a garden closed loop situation, if you're washing your own plants, then absolutely got to put all of that water back into the soil.

2:06:37SpeakerWe've been like drawing a thousand foot, two thousand foot hoses forever from our washing stations just to make sure that every single greenhouse is hit. We do it all year long. Even now, we'll be...

2:06:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineGravity feed hoses will just go from our, you know, hash station down to the next greenhouse and whatnot. And we're just locking in, you know, that water. But I do agree this, that... That water definitely needs to be used fresh. It's like cold pressed juice. You know, it's not something that you sit around because it is. It's living, especially if you're using fresh frozen. If you're using fresh frozen, then you're getting a lot of that bacteria And things that are in the plant, in the water.

2:07:25Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then when you use it, I think that would be really smart to maybe use kefir crystals and do some kind of a kefir water fermentation with that. Another thing I would say is that We tried to use the leaf afterwards because it's really easy to put the leaf back into a compost system or some kind of, you know, top dress. And that's a beautiful thing. But then I was like, oh, we should try and make Bokashi from it.

2:07:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, so let's try and ferment it with lactic acid bacteria so that we can lock in this green living nutrient, you know, with this lactic acid. But then we found it got really Thank you for joining us.

2:08:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then aerating in it. And it was like, oh, it was really nice. But then we found we still needed to use like half organic brand or some kind of sawdust in with the green leaf in order to get

2:08:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you for joining us.

2:08:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt would have the anaerobic anaerobes would come and overtake. So you needed that dryness and then a little bit of like either sawdust or some type of brown, some kind of brown material, and then saturate that with some kind of lactic acid bacteria or EM or some kind of fermenting. And that was the way we had success from turning the leaf into a Bokashi. And Bokashi is just any Brandon Krenzler, Brand or any leaf fermented.

2:09:24Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat's just a blanket term for, you know, locking lactic acid bacteria.

2:09:28SpeakerAnd earlier and earlier you guys were saying, you know, how is it that we can really save these terpenes? Well, we feel like as cultivators, the way that we can save the terpenes is just give it back to the soil because we've definitely noticed, you know, since we've been doing that for the last. We've always given back the water. It just always made sense to us. Our terpene profiles and our breeding and everything is just really one step up.

2:09:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWell, especially in a hugelkultur, carbon rich, carbon sequestration bed system. You're just like saturating with this green terp water. And this green turf water just wraps around all these rocks and sticks and stuff. You're just like, oh, hell yeah. That's my system. You know what I mean? And it just turns into future crystals. I mean, hopefully we have crystals in the soil to charge up the crystals in the plant because they're all crystals.

2:10:25Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd so that's the thing. Now we're going to start seeds really soon. We should really think about starting seeds on crystals.

2:10:34SpeakerAnd feeding it with your hash water right from the very beginning. So right from the germination, a little bit of hash water, because then you get to teach the plant where it's going to go later in life. Why not?

2:10:47Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, you're teaching the bacteria that's in between these chemicals and the plant where it's going, right? Right. So, yeah, it's like the people who germinate their seeds By, you know, putting them in their mouths first and letting the amylase enzymes in their saliva kind of like be the first, you know, moisture that actually gets inside the seed when it germinates. People think that, again, that's a way of sort of like personally putting your, you know, sort of thing on the plant.

2:11:24Dr Mark ScialdoneBut, you know, the thing that I always like about like what you guys say is that everything you say is that What you're, you're sort of feeding this, this chemical biome or this chem-ome or whatever it is. I mean, it's like there's these chemicals and these nutrients that are being supplied by the fungi and by the bacteria and fungi, again, just They play such a huge, enormous role in everything that we do in this living world.

2:11:57Dr Mark ScialdoneFungi are just everywhere, everywhere, right? And the bacteria are just everywhere. So it's like they play such a vital, important role in life itself. And if we think again that we could somehow, you know, use antimicrobial agents or disinfect ourselves to be completely clean, we're dreaming and that's just, Again, a misnomer of, you know, people who want to, you know, take an antibiotic as soon as they get a sore throat because they think that whatever they have, it's something that's going to be cured by some pill and it's an antibiotic so I can take it.

2:12:34Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's no good. No good.

2:12:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnyway, I think if we're using the hash water and the terp water because we do it for the terps like Steve Cantwell, I think that we're maybe feeding the ganja terpenome. I mean, it's a biome, you know, but it's a ganja terpenome because we're just recycling terps. Right. But it's more than that, of course.

2:12:58SpeakerDifferent than a misnomer, a terpenome-er.

2:13:05Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineMaybe it's a Terp Gnome, potentially.

2:13:09BubblemanOn a side note, I did watch Chili's son again the other day go through his Terpenese language. I just like randomly cracked it open and showed a bunch of people in my lab and they were just like, whoa, that is ridiculous. Who is that?

2:13:24Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineClassic moment in time. Classic moment in time.

2:13:27BubblemanClassic. Shout out to the Terp Gnome. You know,

2:13:33SpeakerAre you talking about young Terp? Young Terp, I am, yeah. Yeah, no, that's awesome. You know, it's really funny about that. Yeah, I just cracked up so much kind of, you know, whenever that is just going off. But, you know, over the last many years, we've been kind of aggregating all our Terp data and we've created what I've been jokingly referring to as Rosetta Stone to learn how to speak and teach Terp in the East.

2:14:00SpeakerYou know, which is like a classification system that Essentially sorts terpene by primary mono and sesquiterpene content, you know, into the groups that we see out there. It's actually how the Emerald Cup is going to be judging flower this year. So all flower entries that are entered into the Emerald Cup are going to be chemotype, right, tested for cannabis and terps and pre-sorted into their primary terpene groups, like all myrcene together, myrcene, all limonene together, limonene, all terpene, terpene, and then judges are going to get entries anonymized that they're going to be judging within each class and kind of choosing best in class.

2:14:37SpeakerSo it would be top one, two, and three of each terpene group, and then those advanced to the top 20 that essentially would be judged heads up.

2:14:48Dr Mark ScialdoneWow, how cool is that? That's pretty fucking cool, right? That's super cool. I want to.

2:14:56SpeakerYeah, we're yeah, we're stoked to kind of, you know, work with them a couple on that because, you know, we see You know, it's, you know, of the six primary groups, you know, once you start seeing how all the data sorts, you start really identifying kind of what defines, what actually defines rarity versus overabundance, you know, beyond just the hype strain of the day name type kind of way that it goes, you know, describing things as exotic, this and that.

2:15:23SpeakerBut, you know, by, you know, we're hoping that by sorting it and kind of having judges judge it in that way, you know, we're helping to kind of pay tribute to the real diversity of what the plant has to offer. You know, because you see then kind of are able to give tribute to these, you know, ultra obscure rare profiles that, you know, not only aren't really identified as rare, but they're not even really, they're kind of just masked, you know, in kind of the way that the straight name game goes, you know, all that.

2:15:51SpeakerThere's just certain terpenes like awesomeness.

2:15:54Dr Mark ScialdoneTake on the popularity of All right, guys, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

2:16:09Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd you can always have like teams rooting for different terpenes. You know, you have like the Mersene team and the Fantasy Terpene League. I'm on team terpenele. I don't know about you guys, but that's my team, bro. That's my team, dude. Give me the gas. Give me the gas. You can have whatever you want. Give me the gas.

2:16:31BubblemanBut again, Alec, again, Alec, just not to interrupt. This is going to be quick. I literally was thinking Osamine right before you said it. And I know we had this happen last episode as well. So go ahead and mention my book.

2:16:44SpeakerYeah, totally. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Appreciate the mind meld we got going. But yeah, Osamine, I like calling it Osamine. You know, it's like a kind of subterpene that we see either track with myrcene or we see track with You know, and so, so usually it's masks, like there'll be like a huge myrcene peak, you know, and then like a third of the third of the profile of the myrcene peak will be awesome.

2:17:12SpeakerI mean, you know, but that profile all of a sudden makes up super skunk, mango, papaya, dream queen, green crack in the pines, pineapple, you know, a lot of that subtropical fruit type pineapple is what I associate it with. Yeah, totally, totally. You know, but it's really pineapple whenever I smell pineapple. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And, uh, and so we, but we see it like less than 1% of the data.

2:17:37SpeakerUm, um, uh, we'll, we'll see awesome mean as the primary dominant terpene and there'll be. In absence of myrcene, you know, and so we see certain, you know, kind of, you know, recessive phenols isolated from certain things like in the pines, pineapple, just like you're describing, that will be, yeah, awesomely dominant without myrcene. And then we, you know, like in the Emerald Cup a few years ago, Green Shock Farms, a gentleman named Mark, he won most unique turf award with a stream called Tropical Sleigh Ride, and it was an awesomely dominant peak.

2:18:10SpeakerBut yeah, so that represents, you know, because we see what the way we see it all kind of sort and break down is myrcene, you know, like there is the most overabundant terpene. It's like it represents like 43% of all the profiles of what we see, you know, so a lot of myrcene in that way. And then we see caryophyllene is about 23% of the data.

2:18:34SpeakerLymonean is about 16, 17% of the data. But what you'll notice is Lymonean and Caryophyllene usually track together. So a lot of the most popular Right now, the gelato is kind of wedding cake, dessert type profiles. They're like, you know, kind of co-balanced, co-dominant in limonene and caryophylline. But together, those terms represent about 37% of the data. So they're getting close to mere scene. And, you know, I speculate that this year, you know, because you see it happen with the name game, the way that happens, you know, a certain strain like gelato will get incredibly popular.

2:19:06SpeakerAnd then a few years later, everybody's growing 10 acres of it, you know, or I mean, like, I guess literally in this new licensed world. You know, and so, so, so. In this heart, you know, if you don't know if you're going to get 37% of the strains represented in the market as that profile, you know, it better be really exemplary, you know, kind to even be able to be sold, you know, and so, so, you know, kind of, we're trying to hope we're hoping that, you know, the way that we were coming to understand the way turkey and sword can help in diversifying a portfolio to not get stuck in this, like, you know, narrow game, you know, kind of getting caught up in the floods.

2:19:44SpeakerBut yeah, so, so anyway, so sorry. So there's myrcene, 43% of data, caryophylline, limonene together is about 37% of the data. Then terpenylene, Um, is, represents 10% of the data. Um, um, alpha pinene, uh, so terpenylene is like the Jack trainwreck, sage, Durban, you know, uh, super lemon haze, like the very sativa type terp. Um, and then alpha pine smell, uh, represents about 6% of the data.

2:20:12SpeakerAnd so that's really rare. Oftentimes people confuse pinene with terpenylene, terpenylene kind of smells a little piney, but you know, all those strains kind of the Jack trainwreck, sage, Don't have any pining at all and pretty much, but, but then there's actually true pine smell where it's similar to the ostomy and it'll be, you know, cause usually when pining is present, similar to ostomy, um, it's, it's in the abs or it's, it's, uh, it's masked by the amount of myrcene.

2:20:34SpeakerSo a lot of myrcene and a little bit of pining, and that's like blue dream and streams like that. Um, but it's really, it's like less than 6% of the data when it's pining dominant without myrcene. So we'll see certain strains. I'll be like the top three turbines will be pine alpha pining, limonene beta pining. You know, that's a really fascinating profile too, because pining when together with THC helps to decrease the negative memory impairment effects that THC has in short term.

2:21:00SpeakerSo, you know, that's just a rare profile overall. So like 6%. And then there's the awesome eating profile, which is 1%. But that's, you know, we pretty much see, you know, from the 160,000 terpene tests that we've done since 2013, when we stored, worked to sort it all, And with some bio-traumaticist help, we came to see that there's six primary terpene groups that really are defined by the monoterpene content.

2:21:29SpeakerBeta-carothene is the only dominant terpene that's not a monoterpene, it's a sesquiterpene. But so we see six primary groups and each primary group has like two to three subgroups. But we really see about like, yeah, like 13 to 15 subgroups. We've got archetype profiles, pretty much dominate everything we've ever tested in California and Oregon, you know, across our data set. But yeah, go ramble on about that.

2:21:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhich one is a cannabinoid antiterpene?

2:22:03SpeakerWell, so beta-caryophylline, yeah.

2:22:06Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, beta-caryophylline is an antagonist, but that doesn't mean it's a... I guess, you know, again, you should draw the distinction not based on what biological receptors molecules bind to, but what the structures are themselves. And just because, you know, beta-caryophyllene has activity on CB2 doesn't mean it's a cannabinoid. It's a cannabinoid receptor antagonist, but, you know.

2:22:35SpeakerYeah. Yeah, it's the only terpene that's known to bind to an endocannabinoid receptor.

2:22:39Dr Mark ScialdoneI think so. I think so. I think there's some other analogs that are related to beta-caryophyllene. So humaline, I think, also has some activity like that. And I think that the other is a caryophyllene oxide, which isn't.

2:22:57SpeakerYeah, totally. And isn't humaline. Like the isomer of beta-caryophylline, did you just say that?

2:23:02Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, humaline and beta-caryophylline are related to each other in the fact that, exactly right, Alex, they're isomers of one another. And beta-caryophylline has a very peculiar four-membered ring with a very large other ring. We're humanly in itself just as one large ring. So it's the same atoms, it's the same tinker toys, just connected at different spots.

2:23:27Collin PalmerMark, doesn't it have three isoprene units?

2:23:31Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, which means you get sesquiterpene. Yeah, it's a sesquiterpene. I think Alec properly said that, yeah. So sesquiterpenes are C15s, not C10s.

2:23:43SpeakerAnd what's really fascinating about them From what we see, kind of to the point our conversation has been going, you know, the terpenes are precious and they're fleeting, you know, kind of depending on how they're cared for and preserved. And, you know, the most of the primary attributes that contribute to the secondary metabolite expression of the terpene content in the strain, you know, are the monoterpenes. So limonene, myrcene, pinene, terpenylene, and osamine, and like little, I mean, there's, you know, we're just some subterpenes and they're, they're all monoterpenes.

2:24:15SpeakerAnd so those are all the quickest to go away at the lowest temperatures, even at room temperature.

2:24:20Dr Mark ScialdoneA little monoterpenoid though, right? So little... Is the exception to what you said, right?

2:24:27SpeakerSo thank you. And I appreciate that.

2:24:28Dr Mark ScialdoneTerpene, because it has oxygen on it. It's reacted with water. So it's what we call a terpenoid because you could call it a terpenol, but they're all terpenoid. So geraniol is also another example. Camphor. Yeah. Eucalyptol. These are all alcohols that are derived from terpenes reacting with water and now incorporating the water molecule into the structure of the compound to create what's called a hydroxyl group, which is notably an alcohol.

2:25:11Dr Mark ScialdoneRight.

2:25:12SpeakerWell, and you know, so and to

2:25:18SpeakerTo kind of wrap up, you know, so, so, you know, really, you know, so we're testing for like 36 terpenes and terpenoids at SC Labs. And, you know, essentially across our entire data set, we really see about five to nine terpenes define, you know, 95 plus percent of the profile of every terpene test we've ever ran. Right. And so, you know, we test for eucalyptol and kind of geranium on certain things.

2:25:42SpeakerBut, you know, there

2:25:47SpeakerYou know, terpenes, you'll see any amounts kind of that compliment the profile, but most of these terpenes you show up in pretty much non, you know, non-detect amounts. So it's really fascinating to be able to start to characterize, you know, kind of in sort, you know, kind of everything we've tested by these, you know, really five to nine terpenes that define the primary and subgrouping and how it happens.

2:26:07SpeakerBut, but kind of just to kind of wrap the point on how precious terpenes are, you know, we see really like from the time of harvest, you know, Through, you know, the, you know, kind of harvest, like seed time of dry or harvest to cure, you know, so it's like, what time of day are you harvesting? You're harvesting the middle of the sun, you're harvesting in the middle of the night, kind of around the full moon kind of thing.

2:26:33SpeakerYou know, I think I was hitting on this before on, you know, I think last week maybe. But then, but then what are the conditions that are being, that are taken to preserve these monoterpenes because they're the ones that are so fleeting. And, um, and how they bring being extracted and all that. But, but, but just, um, did I, did I mention swag flag last week?

2:26:55Collin PalmerNo.

2:26:56SpeakerAll right, cool. All right. So, so, so yeah, I didn't want to be very redundant. So, so it was fascinating because when we started aggregating all this terpene data that we've tested over the past, um, you know, kind of since 2013, um, you know, there was. Chris Brown, You know, everything was sorting in the primary kind of secondary groupings that we saw everything, you know, kind of very predictably sorting to.

2:27:18SpeakerChris Brown, And and and then we had like an outlier trigger or like an outlier flag. So if anything, if there was a profile that didn't match kind of these these very predictable groupings. Then it would be flagged for secondary review. And, and that's where I was most excited to kind of really dive into the data. Cause I was like, oh man, that's where the most trippy landrace obscure, like terpene profiles are going to be.

2:27:42SpeakerAnd, and, um, and like within that, you know, that, um, that day that I was, um, You know, there's, there was a tiny percentage of that data that word super defined, awesome mean, or pining, lime meaning, pining type, like really rare data in there is, was the artifact of what we've come to determine as swag. Right. And so, so, so basically. When all the monoterpenes and sesquiterpenes that really define the value of the profile have gone away and volatilized or degraded, then the only terpenes that remain are these highest of boiling point terpenes that end in an OL.

2:28:28SpeakerSo like Neuralytol, Bisbolol, Guayol, Phytol, right? So we came to create this like, this, this, this... Yeah, well, so, so, so basically whenever, I love it.

2:28:42Collin PalmerThe Shrek, I want to see the Shrek.

2:28:45SpeakerYeah, it's a Shrek flag. So, so, so yeah, so, so we basically, yeah, whenever all the Mono and Sesco turbines are gone, there's a condition that we see and it's basically the pro, it'll be less than half a percent total terpene content in the material and They're the only terpenes that are high or kind of, you know, showing in the expression of the terpene profile are these terpenes.

2:29:07SpeakerSo, yeah, so that's, so, so it, but we just thought that was really fascinating because, you know, it just kind of really dug into just the discovery. I mean, it's always been known, you know, the, and the data, you know, are really what defined quality, you know, the presence of them. With THC and the cannabinoids in the relation, the ratio, but whenever the terpenes, I mean, it can test 35% THC, but it could have the swag flag terpenes.

2:29:36SpeakerAnd guess what? That's like a 90 to one terpene to cannabinoid cannabinoid terpene ratio. That's like that to me, that's what defines biomass. You know, like there's no more value to represent that material in the market other than and to distill it. Right. You know, and so, but if it's like THC, but it was like harvested It was, if it was grown in living soil and regenerative conditions and the secondary metabolite production doubled, and there's like 5% terpenes in the dry flower because it was, you know, harvested around the full moon at night and dried, cured, preserved immaculately, you know, that's like 5% terps and dried flower.

2:30:13SpeakerSo it was like 15%. That's a three to one cannabinoid terpene ratio. Right now, how that's going to, how does play a role as offer and nothing would otherwise.

2:30:28SpeakerTotally. I mean, you know, they're definitely having a role in the flavor and, you know, kind of, you know, we're all kind of bouquet, I guess, like for your, I guess your, you know, your, your, that type of that area of your sensory system. But we, we are starting to develop some testing for additional terpenes and some trace compounds like flavonoid, thylols, and whole others. But, but yeah, it's, it's interesting because, you know, we see, You know, like of everything we tested, you know, we're like, we're, we're, we're separating and identifying the primary majority of everything that's there in the chromatogram.

2:31:06SpeakerYou know, but, but by the time you will see these little unknown kind of tiny peaks, you know, in the chromatograms of these certain things that we're not testing for, you know, cause each terpene, each time we test terpenes, You know, we have a runtime PC columns of over 90 minutes per test per sample, you know, and we do that so we can get as much separation of each compound so that we can see all the traits, you know, so we have no collusion and we can make sure that each peak, you know, is what we're actually testing for.

2:31:34SpeakerBut, you know, from time to time, yeah, we do see these little certain trace peaks and certain compounds, you know, and my one of my partners, Jeff Gray, he kind of it's interesting because he likens it to. You know, if you, if you're making a soup, you know, and you have all these ingredients and spices, you know, it's like, you know, certain, certain, all things aren't created equal because, you know, you can take a teaspoon of salt and throw it into the soup and maybe barely affect the taste, but you can take a teaspoon of cumin and throw it in the soup and it just completely changed the overall profile, you know?

2:32:04SpeakerAnd so, so even though these certain trace kind of compounds, Might not make up the profile, you know, clearly they are having huge contributions to the overall, you know, flavor and aroma, you know, certain things like, you know, it's believed that like the gas, the fueling gas skunk terp are in fact skunk terps, you know, like, like thiols are skunk terp, are terpians from skunk. And so, you know, because you can take the OG Kush or Gorilla Glue or what have you profile, headband profile, and, you know, you could recreate that, you know, mixing botanical turps or what have you.

2:32:39SpeakerYou're not even getting close to the smell of that gas fuel-y kind of AC type profile.

2:32:46Collin PalmerRight.

2:32:47SpeakerYeah, I've never seen that. So it's any certain things maybe, you know, that are doing that.

2:32:53Collin PalmerSo it sounds to me like your correlation between harvest times, temperature, relative humidity in which you're drying and your cures play a major role in all the different varietals that you're seeing come through and all the different tests that you're seeing across the board through the years. Now, I have a question, are certain varieties historically just speaking broadleaf and narrowleaf uh are you seeing the hybrids or certain varieties that come through um test higher consistency because i would imagine that you're seeing many different types of quote-unquote headbands come come through um and many different types of test results come through because of all these said You know, points that you've brought up, such as, you know, the medium, when you actually harvest it, how long, you know, it went for.

2:33:46Collin PalmerIs there anything that you can share that you've seen that may point to a more, hey, you should do more of this and less of that?

2:34:00SpeakerWell, so on the expression side of things, within the plant, you know, I mean, that's So much love and respect for the work of Soil Food Web and Dr. Elaine Ingham and just how much cannabis farmers have really put organic farming potential and how to grow plants optimally by understanding the soil microbiology. I feel like Elaine Ingham has received saint status from cannabis farmers that have now brought her so much more legitimacy as a Microbiologist in the world of microbiology than she's ever had, you know, and, and, and is helping to elevate the potential of farming, you know, and she shows that through, you know, when you find the right fungal bacterial ratio, you know, that you're cultivating the plant under, You know, then you can, I, you know, it seems like cannabis is one-to-one in that way.

2:34:55SpeakerFrom the little I remember, you know, from kind of, you know, how deep I was on it back in the day, but, you know, she's been showing side-by-side by, you know, with hydroponic kind of, or whatever other type of cultivation method, you know, she's been showing and substantiating ability of, you know, farming to produce and influence secondary metabolite production. So, you know, with tomatoes, she's been able to see like doubling of secondary metabolite, uh, The content from Lycopene, you know, whenever you have this soil microbiome, you know, like really respected and worked out compared to is going to, you know, the whole conversation around appellations of origin, you know, is going to, it's not just going to come down to regionality or, you know, it's going to come down to the farm conditions specific and how the plants are being grown or how the soil conditions are being created.

2:35:45SpeakerIt's because there's that side of it. And then, you know, there's, you know, Then there's the preservation side of it. You know, we're working with certain groups that are doing live resin, live resin, like live rosin harvesting, right? So they're, you know, they have the teams and they're going out in the fields and they're, you know, harvesting the plants and prepping them and kind of getting them in freezers immediately, you know, and it's kind of where, you know, we've been working with them to where they're harvesting kind of in the middle of the night or, you know, early in the morning, right before the sun comes up, as opposed to, you know, in the middle of the, you know, peak heat of the, Afternoon and you know we're you know just from kind of the return in the extraction process on the terpene content itself you know whenever there's these certain considerations around you know harvest time of you know around the moon cycle around the you know these you know these you know just ensuring that the temperatures that you're exposing the plant to during time of harvest and then throughout the process of drying carrying yeah you know ever you know reaching a certain temperature There's where you're going to be compromising turps.

2:36:51Collin PalmerYeah, I always see, you know, you need to be around 68 relative humidity, 55 or, you know, or or and or throttling it, really paying attention to the materials is super, super key. There is no silver bullet to try cure. It's all very, very specific to that time and that varietal, or that variety, I should say.

2:37:14BubblemanThere was a question for you, Sam. Have you ever smoked isolated novel phytocannabinoids like 331-18B? Is that like a synthetic cannabinoid?

2:37:29SpeakerYeah, I'm smoking some right now.

2:37:36BubblemanYou're hitting that 331-18B right now?

2:37:40SpeakerWell, actually, it's .B3.

2:37:47BubblemanRight, I figured. It sounds like it is a synthetic cannabinoid, Alec, and you know what? That shit scares me. It scares me too, kind of. Kind of like certified by Mother Nature.

2:38:00SpeakerThe trouble with synthetics is people haven't taken them very long. We don't know if they're safe. Maybe they are, maybe they're not. But yeah, I only have one brain to play with. So try to be safe with it.

2:38:16Etienne FontanAs we say. And by safe, go ahead. As we say. Yeah, I mean, I think. The geno factor is large.

2:38:26SpeakerWhat's that, Alec? I was just going to add, like, you know, in the world of like these like synthetic compounds or analog compounds off of the original molecule, You know, synthetic cannabinoids do scare the shit out of me, but it's fascinating how something like the compound of mescaline and then the compound of 2C-B, you know, 2C-B is incredible, incredible medicine and gift of Alexander Shulgin, bless his soul, you know, and that's, you know, Seems incredibly safe and effective in, you know, kind of controlling dose and, you know, effect.

2:39:04SpeakerBut, you know, it's fascinating how these synthetic cannabinoids, you know, that are largely untested or just they have such rate of effects that can be, you know, haphazardous or negative to use.

2:39:20Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI think often with those compounds, they have a potential long-term degenerative effect. If overused in the case of MDMA and 2CV, that their micro dosing capabilities and their euphoric and their dips into a calm state You know, meditative places is exceptionally beneficial and it's amazing medicine in the overuse of it or say the non-pharmaceutical ways that you may get it can definitely have a degenerative effect on your neurological system.

2:40:01Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo I think it's always safe to say that the plant compound itself is going to be the one that's going to be Well, apparently the 3-3-whatever 18B was isolated by Dr. Didi Mieri from a plant in Technician Lab, Israel.

2:40:32BubblemanSo it wasn't a synthetic one. It's isolated from a plant. It's Hermesia Illusens who's in the chat room.

2:40:38WadeYeah, there's like a hundred different cannabinoids been found in the plant is my understanding. Mark probably has better I'm not sure what the number actual, but yeah, there's all kinds of different cannabinoids that the cannabis plant makes. And I want to throw out that I think that the real beauty of the cannabis plant is that it comes with this whole soup of terpenes and other cannabinoids. And that's where some of the benefit and magic of the plant really resides.

2:41:05WadeBlessed be.

2:41:08Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, and things like MDMA. Yeah, I totally agree with that. The other compounds that we were talking about before, like the The hallucinogenic compounds. And so like, if you're familiar with Sasha Shogan's books, so the P books, so the phenethylamines that I have known and loved. And so the, the phenethylamines are similar to things like L-DOPA, which naturally exists in your brain and, and epinephrine and related compounds.

2:41:43Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so, There are natural enzymes in the brain that regulate these compounds. And you'll know that like people who are diagnosed with clinical depression will be giving something that are called MAO inhibitors. And so MAO stands for monoamine oxidase. And monoamine oxidase is a regulatory enzyme that exists in the brain to basically Dr. Michael Dunn, MD, Shea Blvd. Dr. Michael Dunn, MD, Shea Blvd. Dr. Michael Dunn, MD, Shea Blvd.

2:42:37Dr Mark ScialdoneDr. Michael Gomez, MD, M.D. : Level and function of these compounds in the brain. That's not quite well understood. Dr. Michael Gomez, MD, M.D. : As opposed to the guy who goes to the rave every weekend and just takes as much ecstasy as he could possibly swallow. I mean, Dr. Michael Gomez, MD, M.D. : At some point again you're saturating your body's ability to basically degrade these compounds and because they look like compounds that are related to things that are naturally in the brain.

2:43:04Dr Mark ScialdoneThey're metabolized and then re-uptake presynaptically. And so the whole basis of the whole acid flashback, which is where somebody just took so much psychedelics and now presynaptically, they've sort of reincorporated these compounds, which at one point flooded the synapse is now coming back and sort of, again, the basis of the whole acid flashback is there. Steve Sorenson, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD,

2:43:59Dr Mark ScialdoneKind of like of what you would see for somebody who had a real methamphetamine addiction as opposed to.

2:44:06BubblemanThey got Sid Barrett-ed.

2:44:07Etienne FontanThe inability to have emotion or show emotion. It just became so vanilla. You know, it's very strange. Yeah, I know.

2:44:17Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I think your body begins to depend on this. Almost there's a dependency that is probably underpins the addiction to them. But I don't think cannabis, I think cannabis is kind of like, again, for that to me, is like the exit drug. It's like, you can still get the euphoric feeling that you get on psychedelics without completely losing your shit by just having the right type of cannabis, I think, cannabis product.

2:44:48Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I know it's a completely different set of molecules, but it's acting on the same... Steve Sorenson, MD, It's a different set of software, but it's acting on the same computer. You know, it's, you're, you're not doing things that are there. The thing with psychedelics, and again, it's so interesting how, when you look at the chemistry of psychedelics, How they're very often these phenethylamine type derivatives. If you look at the, if you look at the structure of LSD itself, you could actually see in the case of LSD that there's an indole ring, which basically defines the molecule itself.

2:45:24Dr Mark ScialdoneBut you could basically map a molecule of phenethylamine right over the top of those. And you could see where they could fit in the same, same receptors kind of like as, you know, puzzles, puzzle pieces fitting together. So it's really cool.

2:45:41BubblemanInteresting conversation, no doubt. We've got 15 minutes left. I've got a hard stop at noon today. I'm going to be hiking up the mountain behind my house and going and seeing the enchanted forest that's up there. We had... A little girl in our neighborhood here some years back now who was hiking in the forest with a bunch of people. And I guess a boulder shifted and crushed her and ended her life.

2:46:06BubblemanShe was very young, I think seven or eight years old. And so they've created, her parents created a really beautiful enchanted forest Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:46:33Bubbleman15 more minutes, 14 more minutes than a hard stop. So whatever you do, guys, don't get into an incredibly interesting conversation in the next 12 minutes, please. Or if you do, wrap it up in those 12 minutes.

2:46:48Etienne FontanWell, hey, what's everybody smoking on today? Just keep it light and lively. And for fun and giggles, we haven't done it in a long time, but what are you smoking on in chat?

2:47:01BubblemanWell, let's see what they say. It's going to happen fast.

2:47:05SpeakerStrawberry Guava, Grapefruit, Urban Sugar, Lemon Kush Mints, Georgia Pie, with some Chernobyl Library.

2:47:22WadeWe've got some Dry Sift, Cashy's Honey, Cross with Canisou. And it's a kind of a type two blend that tastes really lovely this afternoon.

2:47:37BubblemanOh, that sounds nice. I got some Mendo Breath from the Dragonfly Earth Medicine. I've got some Concentrated X Cookies and Cream, Hash Rosin, as well as some Full Melt Bubble Strawberry Banana, as well as some Full Melt Bubble, Rosin from Strawberry Banana, all from Concentrated X. I got a little bit of Los Gardens in the house. Got a little of that Kaya's Coffee, grown organically and regeneratively out in the east side of the country over in Ontario.

2:48:03BubblemanAnd a little bit of Grateful Heads. I got a little bit of the Jagger. So shout out to the Eugene family. That yagger. And everyone's hitting, it's like Icy Sweet Skunk, Dream and Diesel, Crazy Train, Cheese Force, Ziddle's Breath, Dead Orange Dry Sift, Afgu, Cream and Sugar, Sojay Hayes, Banana OG, GMO Punch, SFV OG, Wedding Cake, Chemdog, Bean OG. I mean, holy shit. Straw Nana times Triple Sec from Stafely Farms, Mother's Milk crossed with Wookie 15.

2:48:39BubblemanThere is some incredible names, Blue Gelato 41, Sticky Barb. That's always a fun question to ask because truly there's probably like four, three, 400 people in the chat room right now, almost 500 actually. So that's a lot of people puffing on a lot of things. And I wonder, imagine if we all just puffed a gram during this church, we would have consumed half a kilo of concentrates with just our panel and the 500 people who are watching on the show.

2:49:09BubblemanThat's pretty cool anyway.

2:49:11Collin PalmerI have some Triangle Kush here, some Triangle Wave, some Lemon Cake, some Trop Cookies. I got a gift here of some flour that I typically don't have a lot of. And this is, I believe, I think this is cookies and cream, I believe.

2:49:30BubblemanBut yeah. So much good stuff out there. Super Silver Haze crossed with Great White Shark, Old School AK-47, Grinspoon crossed with the Neville's Haze, Bubblegum crossed with Bodega, GM Oak and Straw Guava, Larry Bird, Vanilla Frosting, Mac and Cheese Rosin, Chem de la Chem, Garlic Juice. It actually just puts a smile on my face to read all of this right now. Has the world not come a long way?

2:50:03BubblemanMac and cheese, what am I missing here?

2:50:07Etienne FontanJust the diversity of genetics and access that people have compared to, you know, a decade ago. And to see all this, it's amazing. I love it. And thank you all for making it all happen and all y'all watching it for perpetuating it. Y'all are awesome.

2:50:23SpeakerYeah, I got this great little run up here. I got Linji OG, OG Kush, Wedding Cake, Girl Scout Cookies, Girl Glue Number Four, and Bubba Kush. Like that's just a nice little package. It's beautiful.

2:50:38BubblemanNot too shabby, I will say, Johnny B.

2:50:41SpeakerNot too shabby.

2:50:44BubblemanBigfoot, look at that.

2:50:45SpeakerAnd I went to the local store and I picked up this OG Chemdog. And you know what? It's OG Chemdog. It's fire.

2:50:54BubblemanEvergreen's hitting that skunk ran over by a blueberry truck with a burning tire. How's that? That's like... I want to be over at Evergreen's house hitting a little bit of that with just a hint of burning tire. You have to really cut through the dead skunk and the blueberry truck to get to that burning tire sort of off rubber taste.

2:51:19Collin PalmerYeah, I love that.

2:51:20BubblemanI'm smoking.

2:51:22Collin PalmerThe more rubber band, the better. That's bad.

2:51:25BubblemanThe more rubber band.

2:51:26Collin PalmerI'm smoking some guava punch.

2:51:29BubblemanI could do a whole show on Alec talking about the terpenes and the groups that they fit into. Man, like I'm telling you, I'm sure that's probably I really would love to see you standing in front of a board one day with them all written out and circles and put a book out or something like make that information available because it's priceless. And I personally will be going through everything you said later and kind of creating my own little graph with that because there's there's value in that.

2:51:58SpeakerI'll send you, send you some cool, cool, cool stuff. We have a presentation vibe for sure. We just, yeah, we've launched this like vital fact report. So when, you know, that's a foundation of a term classification system.

2:52:18BubblemanCool, man. Very cool.

2:52:20SpeakerHey, Alec, I know that they were, Emerald Cup is going to do an indoor certification as well. Are you all going to be having intake of that, not certification, indoor competition as well? Are you guys going to be able to intake with terpene ratios like that? Because that would be really phenomenal to see the differences of terpenes from the sun grown that you're working on and then move over to an indoor competition with the terpenes.

2:52:46SpeakerIs that in the mix coming up? Um, well, so, so, so we're, we're, we're, uh, terpene cannabinoid testing all flower entries across categories. So, and the, the Emerald Cup is doing Endora this year for the first time. And, um, and they are also kind of paying tribute and recognition to third-party certified organic type farms, you know, kind of, uh, DEM certified all. Um, those others around. And, um, so it'll be really interesting, you know, to kind of analyze and see, see, um, you know, both, you know, from, from flower, you know, grown indoors, sun grown across, but just to kind of compare some of the around terpene cannabinoid expression compared to the mean across all the other data.

2:53:32SpeakerUm, and yes, super stoked to connect and share more about that. I'd love to show you some more on this terpene system to

2:53:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo I'm super into seeing some like Alex Gray style, sacred G, like meta terpene cannabinoid art, you know, where we start seeing where the terpene profile Thank you.

2:53:54SpeakerThank you.

2:53:57Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you. Thank you.

2:54:17Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat we're dealing with because like in Gil's case for someone who's, you know, say growing from all seed, you know, every one of those plants are going to have some fractal epigenetic difference, you know, and it would just be really cool to be able to overlap the two. I don't know, you know.

2:54:34SpeakerAnd then also breed with, you know, putting terpenes out front, breeding Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:54:56SpeakerJust like awesoming, really earthy, gassy, every single time, no matter what. So it'd be really awesome to talk about like the marriage of the terpenes and then what they turn into, but maybe that's the great unknown of genetics and breeding.

2:55:12Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's the great unknown, but it's also, you're kind of creating the terpeta stone, you know, for us to be able to speak terpenes, you know, so we look to you for guidance.

2:55:23SpeakerYeah, thank you for being there for us. Alex, we love you. That was awesome. Likewise. You can't wait to wrap more.

2:55:32Etienne FontanTurpanese. I love it.

2:55:35Collin PalmerTurpanese.

2:55:40Collin PalmerKelly, I noticed a difference from growing a lot of these East Coast, you know, Chemdog, Sour, indoor and outdoor. A major difference in profiles from outdoor to indoor. Sour Diesel might be one of the hardest varieties to actually grow well indoors from growing a lot of it over a long period of time. And I prefer the outdoor, to be honest, and greenhouse grown version of it. There's nothing else quite like it, to be honest.

2:56:13Collin PalmerAnd I stand behind that.

2:56:16SpeakerI have to try that then.

2:56:20Collin PalmerYeah, it's fascinating, but I see it. I see it.

2:56:27BubblemanWell, I say it's been a wonderful show. I sure appreciate everyone for coming in and hanging out from Ganja Gill to Etienne Fontaine to Skunk Man Sam and Johnny B to Colin and Brian over at Best Friend Farms, Dr. Mark in the house, Kelly and Josh from Dragonfly Earth Medicine, Alec from SC Labs breaking it down for us. And of course, Mr. Wade Laughter, one of my favorites.

2:56:54BubblemanJust being in the room, he sets a tone and I just sure appreciate him as a human being, as I do all of you. In fact, as well, all the people who are in the chat room hanging out and sharing our time right now. Thank you all so much for hanging out for us. Hash Church 3.0, episode 14. Let's do it again next week. Make it episode 15.

2:57:14BubblemanJust keep doing it. Peace out, everybody. Thanks for coming.

2:57:18WadeTo love. Peace out. Thank you.

2:57:26SpeakerThank you very much, Marcus. All right. Peace out. Thanks, Marcus.

2:57:33BubblemanPeace, everybody.