Exploring Clubhouse and Cannabis Conversations

0:05BubblemanAll right, I think we are pretty much live here. Just setting up the meeting on YouTube. Give it a second or so, just so I... Yes, okay. I think we're here.

0:20BubblemanThat's it. Welcome everyone to Hash Church episode 15 of Hash Church 3.0. I'm just going to copy the link. I am not sure who's going to show up today. I really sent this out last minute and I thought, you know what, even if nobody sends ships out, I'm good to go and I'll do a little Hash Church. I had Johnny B say he might come in and I had Colin mention that he might come in.

0:45BubblemanSo And of course, Etienne Fontaine is always going to come in because he's our guy that's always here. There he is right there. Welcome, Etienne. Good morning, sir. Good morning, sir. How are you today? Let me fix my audio so I can hear you. I suspect it's my problem, not yours. It happens. There it is. Can you hear me? Oh, yeah. I had, when I come on often Zoom, it will take my Raspberry microphone, this little guy, and it'll also make it my speaker.

1:22BubblemanAnd I don't even glitch anymore when that happens. I'm like, you know what? I know what's going on here.

1:30Etienne FontanSame thing happens to me sometimes when, yeah, you switch over, it just decides that everything's going to be, your mic is now your audio.

1:39BubblemanYeah, yeah, exactly. And I will be honest, I have been, not to start so, so, so, so early, I wonder who Dig On Mo QHSR's, who that's going to be. Good morning, Johnny B. Morning. Don't come back. And who else do we got in the room there? You got to unmute yourself and turn on your camera because we can't see ya. We can't see ya. Oh, Mr. West.

2:07BubblemanIs that Hank? Is that Hank West?

2:13Etienne FontanNo, we don't got you yet.

2:14BubblemanNo audio. We can see you. Someone told me in chat today, they were like, invite Mike West. He said he would come in. I'm like, really? I always feel bad inviting Mike West because I know he likes to share. At the same time, I know he likes to relax and enjoy himself and spend some time with his wonderful wife. Hello, Dr. Allison. Good morning. Be honest, did we pull you away from Clubhouse?

2:43SpeakerYou totally did. You totally did. Knew it. We have new boundaries now on Clubhouse. During our family time, like dinner time and post-dinner time, it's very limited because I was just, I'm becoming obsessed with it.

3:07BubblemanI feel ya. Well, for those of you that don't know that we know that we are starting, let me just see here. I don't think they understand. They got to go into the next link for YouTube. I just want to make sure we're all good here and that we're actually live because I don't see people coming into the other chat. Now, let me see what I did here.

3:29BubblemanI probably made a mistake.

3:33SpeakerOh, look, there's Mike West. There he is. I haven't seen your face. Good to see your face.

3:41BubblemanHello, Jason. How are you? Well, I don't know why the chat's not working on YouTube, but we'll figure it out. I will also say, yeah, it says chat's not working on the new stream. Well, that's going to be a problem. That's really kind of a problem. I wonder why the chat's not working on the new stream. Ouch. It's starting to appear now. It is, isn't it? You're right.

4:06BubblemanThere it is. Take a deep breath.

4:10Etienne FontanIt's okay. Deep cleansing, cannabis-laden breath.

4:15BubblemanThat was scary. All right. So what I want to start with today, because it really is kind of a big deal, especially for just this whole, not just the cannabis conversation and the psychedelic dialogue and all these different dialogues that we all know are super important to have right now. But recently I got turned on to this app that we were just talking about called Clubhouse. It was actually Stephen who turned me on and then Dr. Allison gave me a bunch of tips and tricks for it.

4:46BubblemanBut it truly is a phenomenal, well, it's a double-edged sword. It's both a phenomenal app and it will literally steal all your time for you if you let it. And the way I look at this app is it seems like it's like hash church. Times like 10,000, like there's just 10,000 hash church rooms going. Now, the only difference from a hash church to a clubhouse, in my opinion, is that it's not recorded.

5:12BubblemanYou can't go back and save it. You can't go back and listen to it, which is definitely somewhat of a problem, but also.

5:19SpeakerHey, Marcus, actually you can record it. You are able to record them. You just have to put it in the topic section that you're recording it and then you can record it on your own.

5:34BubblemanAnd then share it, I guess, through other like your podcast or whatever.

5:38SpeakerYes, a lot of people are doing that.

5:40BubblemanOK, well, that's amazing because to not be able to save it, I thought was a little bit of a downer. But at the same time, it seemed to create unique conversation that I just can't really say enough about it. It's super trippy. It's an invite only app. It's not available to Android. It is available to iPhone users. They're going to make it available to Android users eventually.

6:00BubblemanBut I would get on it, figure it out. I'm going to have a presence over there at 10 and Allison and Mike and a ton of people are over there already. It's really dynamic. Like, it's definitely pretty trippy. The different rooms that you can go into based on even started.

6:18SpeakerThere's a there's a German cannabis room I was in earlier today. I couldn't understand an entire word they said, but they were just talking about cannabis in German.

6:28BubblemanThat is so awesome. No, I'm really stoked on the app. It's definitely unique. I think the fact that it takes the video out of the, you know, the sort of... People are really eager to share when that video isn't there, when it's less... You know, exposed. It's a little bit more private. They're just a voice. And yeah, it's how can we get an invite? Now, that is a thing I'm not too sure.

6:55BubblemanI would ask around if you go on and you go and reserve your name, it should show you who in your contacts are on Clubhouse and you could potentially hit them up in a private message and say, hey, do you have a Clubhouse invite for me? That would be potentially one way of of getting it done. I just had Stephen send me an invitation and then I used my two.

7:18BubblemanThe thing about those invitations is if you send them out to the wrong people, if you send them out to people on Androids or you accidentally send it to an iPad instead of the actual phone, the invites are gone. And it is a little bit rough in that sense that it's very easy to blow your invitations and you only get a couple, but...

7:39SpeakerI'm going to interrupt you real quick. The more that you talk and the more that you moderate, the more invites you get.

7:47BubblemanI did get three more after my initial two, but I've given them all away. Three of them were like Matt Stang ones where they were just pooched. I accidentally gave them to people who I don't even know if their phone number is the same phone number anymore.

8:00Collin PalmerI have an invite for you if you want to give it out. Oh, nice. Welcome, Colin. How are you doing this morning? I'm beautiful. How are you guys doing? How's everyone doing? How's the chat room doing? Mark, ATN.

8:14Johnny BDoing better.

8:15Collin PalmerWith Mr. Wade laughter.

8:17BubblemanIt's about to be doing better. There he is. Don't you guys all feel better now that Wade's here? Every time. I do too. He's like a calming energy. I can hear laughter.

8:28Dr Mark ScialdoneHe brings laughter.

8:29BubblemanYeah, he brings laughter. And also, Dr. Mark, we're also happy that you're here, too, because you bring information and it goes so well with laughter.

8:40Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Mark, I'm still not getting the group message that you're sending out to people. That's really strange. I know.

8:47BubblemanI think somehow you got bumped out of that group. I'm going to try and add you. But you know what? Forever now, I'm just going to send you your own invitation.

8:56Dr Mark ScialdoneLike Sam, right?

8:58BubblemanYeah, exactly. You get your own private invitation. You've earned it. Thank you. And nice to see the group. I wasn't sure who was going to pop in today. It was so last minute, but you guys are always good with your time. Once again, I'm not going to go too, too much on Clubhouse, but if you guys aren't on it, if you can figure out a way to get on it, if there's people on this panel that have an iPhone and want to get an invitation, I mean, Mark, you would absolutely crush Clubhouse.

9:25BubblemanThere's been times where I've wanted to ping you into the room where people have been going off on sort of science that

9:30Dr Mark ScialdoneHow is it? I just joined, so I missed something.

9:33BubblemanWhat is Clubhouse? Well, Clubhouse is just an app. And to me, it feels like an app that's really turning the corner. It's not an Instagram. It's not a Twitter. It's not a Facebook. It's not about getting likes. It's not about posting pictures. It's just audio. You can go into all these different rooms. I was in a room the other day with, well, it's just been an incredible experience.

9:56BubblemanTons of amazing people. I even ended up in a room with Todd McCormick the other day on a panel where we were both speaking. It was kind of funny. I kept my mouth quiet because I knew the last time I went into a room Thank you for joining us.

10:28BubblemanWhat's going on with these psychedelic mushrooms? Tons of great knowledge and shares going on in that sort of area and just really unique conversations. Like think hash church. And, you know, you can start... More diverse. More diverse. More diverse. You think Hash Church in the sense of like joining together with 10 or 15 people and having a conversation, but it's just like an endless group of people.

10:51BubblemanImagine if in the chat room right now in YouTube, if I could just click on a name and bring them right up into here, because that's how it is. You've got like 10 or 20 people on the panel. You've got another 50 to 100 that are coming into the room and leaving and coming. And if one of those people come in... Thank you so much for joining us today.

11:38SpeakerThere's different ways that you can connect with people. I mean, like you can't message in the actual app itself, which is kind of cool because there's no back messaging during the conversation, but you can connect your Instagram and they can DM you and you can follow people and engage with them that way. It's very much like an immediate audio connection. One of the most fascinating things, oh, I was just told that was too long.

12:06SpeakerOne of the most fascinating things that I've done.

12:08Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it's not only subject matter experts. I mean, they're just regular folks can join the discussion without knowing much of anything.

12:19Etienne FontanWell, you call up your moderator at the top. So it's kind of three levels. You've got the speakers at the top, which are the moderators slash speakers. Then you've got a second section that are those that are followed by the speakers. Which are not on the stage. And then you have the general audience at the bottom. The moderators up top can bring anybody up from any level.

12:41Etienne FontanAnd there's a raise hand function. So if somebody has a question, you allow them to raise hand and then you can bring them up, ask them the question, then dismiss them off the dais or keep them up there to have further conversation. So it's a fun, I'm learning a lot. I'm teaching. It's, it's a great way to absorb information. And because you're not on video, you can just listen to it on the side.

13:02Etienne FontanSo.

13:02Dr Mark ScialdoneWho owns the platform? Is it a public company?

13:06Etienne FontanMost likely.

13:08BubblemanYeah, I've heard a bunch about these guys. Not super good things. I definitely heard a couple of bad things when I first did some research. But yeah, I saw the other day they had like a billion dollar valuation on this app. And it's I think it's been around for a while, like since April. But it seems to have only just caught my attention here in the last week or so.

13:26BubblemanBut it's. I kind of can't say enough about it. It's very addicting and it's very unique to just be able to, it's nice for me to go into rooms and just listen, not be invited up, not have anyone know me at all and just listen and just be like, wow, okay, this is actually really, really cool. So I've been- How do they make their money? Like what's their business model?

13:52BubblemanYou know, data, I would suspect, like all of these companies, how they all make their money, it's all through data and whatnot.

13:59Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's got to be some, you know, you got to follow the money with these things, man, right? I mean, don't they own the content? Like when you...

14:07BubblemanSo, kind of like... No more than YouTube, no more than Instagram, no more than like, it's pretty standard. I mean, the lawyers, the sharks that wrote that stuff up years ago, it's now just getting regurgitated into new versions. And I would be certain that just like Instagram, everything you post on there belongs to them kind of thing.

14:29Dr Mark ScialdoneBut... Well, not, not wanting to bring politics into the discussion, but I'm wondering if, if like, you know, like the way that they ended Parler or the way that they took away the, the, the, the, what the hosting service of, of Parler, could this be a way again for hate groups to sort of assemble? Or do they police that in any way?

14:51Collin PalmerThat's a great question.

14:52SpeakerYes. No, they do. They do. You can block people and report people. I have found that people are very kind to each other. And when someone like a troll comes in, they are blocked and kicked out immediately. And so there is a reporting feature. I don't know. Like, I don't know that it's not a parlor because that's just not my game. But You know, there is a reporting feature and it's been, everyone has been very kind and we kind of police each other.

15:22BubblemanI've found that also the people have been absolutely like really kind like really like respectful I've only really had one experience in a room where the wrong person got made into a moderator and you kind of got to be careful about that because that person can kick you out of your own room they could kick every moderator out of the room and basically take over your room so that I experienced once already not a guy taking over a room but One of 20 moderators just, you know, cutting it.

15:53BubblemanIn fact, it was an incredible conversation because it was, it started about men cutting women off. And she said, you know, she was talking, she got interrupted. She said, you know, I get, this happens to me all the time. Men cut me off and it's a real problem. And I'm going to mention it right now. And we're going to have a discussion. And then it kind of took a turn because another woman came in and said, you know, Like, I would like to share a different perspective.

16:19BubblemanAnd she was like, you know, some people have OCD, some people have dyslexia, some people have all these little tweaks with their personalities. They're using this app because they want to come in and interact, but they have these tweaks and ticks of their personalities And she was kind of saying she was one of those people. She tends to cut people off. And so she came in with this really different, unique perspective.

16:41BubblemanAnd then the other girl was like, no, I'm not buying it. I'm I'm owning this. He was cutting me off. The guy had already apologized, but it was still and it reminded me of Hash Church. Like many times, there's been many men cut many men off as well as many women off. But I think it's just because we get excited. Wade can go. Shake his head because he's literally the only one that has never done it.

17:05BubblemanBut we've done it. We've all done it. And we talk louder and we try to get our point across. And so this discussion started and the girl was like, I'm not having it like I he cut me off. And then one of the moderators from the room bounced her out of the room. And so it became a whole thing. And I actually listened for about 40 minutes and it was awkward and it was difficult, but I felt like there was value in that dialogue, having that dialogue and like sitting through these cringe, you know, worthy moments that, uh, that were occurring.

17:35BubblemanBut as, as a man, I felt like, uh, it was a learning experience and I, I definitely saw both perspectives of, of both, uh, of these girls, but, uh, you'll find all sorts of things like that on Clubhouse.

17:47SpeakerIt's a, Hey, Marcus. Go back to the Nigerian when the situation where like the Nigerian came in and like had no idea and was just asking questions.

17:58BubblemanRemember that? I went into, I just went into her room. So I don't remember that exactly, but I just, she had a room and I was like, oh, I'm just, I went, you know, anytime I think I went into a room that, um, What's her name now? Justine Bateman, Jason Bateman's sister. She was in a room talking about movies. I was like, oh, I used to watch that girl on TV when I was a kid.

18:18BubblemanI'll go listen to her for a bit. And now I was in one of the games rooms the other day talking about like, you know, social equity and social justice and, you know, basically making space for for brown and black Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here.

18:57BubblemanSo awesome. It was so good. Like, it was crazy. No one was talking. Everyone was just like, all right, let's just.

19:04SpeakerWell, but you had that, you had that kid that thought he knew everything. And then you brought Mike in and Mike went, blew him away.

19:14Etienne FontanAllison, I think I was in a room the other day where some guy came in and said, you guys are talking about drugs. You're talking about drugs. I was there. You were there? Yeah. Okay, that guy. Oh, yeah.

19:25BubblemanNo, that was amazing because we were talking about the difficulty of psychedelics. And when we get into a psychedelic experience where it's a bad trip and people were like, well, it's not really bad. It's about working those particular muscles and it feels rough because it's hard when you're working things out, but you end up getting out the other side. And so this African guy came in and he was like, you are speaking about drugs.

19:47BubblemanYou are smoking drugs. And he was really loud and people were kind of jumped all over him and got real negative. And I don't know if you remember this ATN, but I sort of said to everyone, I said, hey, listen, you know, like here we are talking about how to deal with bad trips. And then one potentially comes into our actual reality in this moment. And this is how we deal with it.

20:09BubblemanBecause people were really jumping on that guy to kind of bounce. Let's get him out. He's a troll. And it's like, well, maybe he's a troll, but maybe he's just a guy from Africa who has a cultural difference, who wants to interact with us. And maybe we could be a little bit more patient. So, yeah, I found that funny as well.

20:27SpeakerLet him start his own room, the anti-drug room.

20:32BubblemanYeah, exactly. How are you doing, Sam? Welcome.

20:36SpeakerI'm alive a few minutes late, but I'm here.

20:40BubblemanThere was a really big conversation yesterday in one of the rooms. Donnie Wershaftor was there. Dale Hunt was there. They were talking about patents and IP in the cannabis industry. And it was an entire conversation about GW Pharmaceuticals and Canopy Growth suing GW Pharmaceuticals because of the CO2 patent that they acquired that runs out in about a year. And that was also a very interesting conversation. I hadn't heard from Donnie Wershaft in a very long time.

21:08BubblemanSo it was neat to kind of hear him up on the stage talking about these things. He obviously has a fairly in-depth perspective of such things. But I was thinking about you, Sam.

21:20SpeakerWell, Donnie is a lawyer, but he also has narcolepsy. So while you're talking to him, he'll fall asleep.

21:30BubblemanYes, that's true. I've had that happen many times with Donnie as I've known him for, geez, about 30 years now. He's one of the people that goes back very, very far. He thought we went back to 96 yesterday, but it's actually more like 94, 95 when I actually first met Mr. Wershaftor.

21:51SpeakerDonnie had a lot of influence because his uncle, Was the famous progressive insurance company. Crap, I can't remember his name right now. But he put in millions for marijuana legalization. Peter Lewis. Yeah, good old Peter, yes. When I visited with him, it was in Amsterdam on his boat. Which at the time was the 10th largest private boat in the world.

22:31Etienne FontanDonnie was also one of the original hamsters. He had the Ohio Hempery and was importing hemp seed oil and all that stuff. Yeah, because when I was working for Ecolution, we used to work on imports, exports, and trading wholesale stuff like that back in the mid 90s.

22:50BubblemanThat's how we met him, basically through hemp. He came out to Manitoba and we threw this big hemp kind of conference pageant almost like a hemp pageant. And we brought the harvester from Holland and we had the big scissor cut and we had the acreage going on. This was like in the mid 90s. And we were trying to get live seed at the time. And you could buy hemp seed from China that was sterilized and dead and put it into hemp seed food and promote it as a health thing.

23:19BubblemanBut really, there was nothing left alive in it whatsoever. The embryos had just been steamed to death before they could ship out of China. And that was about $800 a ton. But if you wanted to bring living seed to actually plant and it was like certified seed and registered in Canada, that was the Zola Tenosha that we were getting out of the Ukraine, the 11th, the 13th and the 15th.

23:41BubblemanNow, obviously, Sam could probably go on for hours about the different varieties of hemp because there was the finola that he had things to do with and there were many other varieties from different countries in Europe. But here we are at the 90s. We're having this event. We've got a whole room full of farmers. And we've brought our Zola Tinocha in. And it's not cheap. It's like 3,000 bucks a ton or something that these Ukrainian guys wanted for this seed.

24:06BubblemanAnd, you know, it was viable. We figured no problem. We'll make it work. And so we bought all this seed. I think we bought about, I want to say 10 tons. And we brought that over and we were trying to sell it to farmers and Donnie, we invited Donnie to our event and we're up on the podium and my partner's like, listen, if any of you guys want to get some hemp seed, we have some hemp seed we're selling for like, I think we were trying to get like 3,500 bucks for it or maybe 4,000, you know, try to make a thousand bucks off each ton that we sold.

24:35BubblemanAnd Donnie Wershaft pushes his way up to the podium and kind of is like, listen, I don't know what these crazy kids are talking about, but I can get you a hemp seed out of China for $800 a ton. Don't worry about these crazy prices these kids are talking about. And we're just like, what are you doing, Donnie? I'll never forget that moment. It was so funny.

24:57BubblemanAnd we actually laughed about it with him later. He was just like, oh, geez, guys. Yeah, I don't know. Sorry. Smoking a joint with him afterwards. But we were the young guys and Donnie was one of the elders that we looked up to, you know, that was just like, Donnie's going to do us right. And then we just, you know, got done dirty there for for about five minutes.

25:16BubblemanIt was pretty funny. Every farmer.

25:20SpeakerIt's important to mention too that I had more than a little bit to do with Fanola. I created Fanola.

25:27BubblemanWell, that's what I was going to say, but I figured I'd let you say it. You did breed Fanola. Yes, I remember that.

25:33SpeakerNo problem. I'm an expert at breaking in when I'm not needed.

25:37BubblemanWe love you for it. In fact, if you don't mind, could you just only talk when Dr. Allison is talking and cut her off every time she speaks?

25:45SpeakerI could try. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard at all.

25:48BubblemanI'm just busting balls. I love your passion and I love your excitement and I know you very well as a person. So I know you're not, you're a good person. I just know that in my heart.

25:58SpeakerOne of the main reasons I have a tendency to do that, and I know I do it, is because I think of something that I think is important and I want to say it and I should just get a pencil and paper, but I don't.

26:12BubblemanBefore you forget it, I get it. I get it.

26:14SpeakerDo you know what? I'm so not offended. It's totally fine. I'm so not offended. And actually, I was thinking, so Don Warshafter is on our, he's on the Center for Cannabis and Social Policy Board with me. And he's, it's funny because we were, we were talking about Jack Harer on Clubhouse as well. And about how Jack Harer, like if you had weed, he would just come over and be like, wish God.

26:42SpeakerI'm like, look in your bag and like take a handful of it. Well, Don does the same thing.

26:49BubblemanWell, how about this? OK, let's talk about the difference between that and Skunk Man Sam. Skunk Man Sam doesn't even accept things from people generally. Like for a very long time, I was blown away when I could actually produce something that he would smoke. So it's almost the opposite. Not only will he not take your stash, he's probably not gonna smoke it in any way, shape or form, unless it's up to a certain level of quality, which I also always was impressed with it.

27:21BubblemanSome people that were just willing to kind of get in there and take whatever they could get. And then you got Sam, who's just like, I've sorted out everything I need for myself. I'm not taking anything.

27:34SpeakerWell, I can't say that I gave a lot of cannabis away. I did give quite a bit, but compared to seeds, I used to walk in the Million Man March here in Amsterdam and I would take a two kilo bag of seeds with me. And I would hand out a handful to anybody who wanted it. And I would listen to them because they were mostly Dutch people.

27:58SpeakerAnd I'd hear them, what is this? And the other one would say, oh, it's Henepsod. It's, you know, it's just handful. And in the meantime, he's giving away stunt number ones.

28:13BubblemanYou told me those stories before of giving away like nice genetics to people that just had no idea. And that's also there's something really wonderful about that, because you have to know that some of those random people went home and plugged that into some some dirt and grew that up and was just like, what the fuck is this?

28:30SpeakerIt was the best they've ever grown.

28:34BubblemanHands down. That's awesome. That is awesome. Some of those stories, too, you know, those The Million Dollar March, the Million Man March, and also the Queen's Day celebration, where you'd pull out those goo balls.

28:53SpeakerYep, those were absolutely wonderful. Clarified ghee with about a gram of THC and extracted from Skirt Number One, actually, or from a tash, I mean.

29:10BubblemanI got to think some people had a pretty intense trip. Like you couldn't just give those to anyone.

29:16SpeakerNo, I would tell people that you should only eat a half of one first to wait a few hours before you eat any more. Except for people like Mila, who she could pop two or three in her mouth and walk down the street, you know, no problem at all. So could our friend Robbie. But, you know, and I, if I would eat like five of them, I would start sort of getting shaky if I couldn't stand up very good.

29:47Bubbleman5,000 milligrams. That's heavy.

29:53Johnny BThat's a heroic dose. I take too many at a time.

29:58BubblemanThat's got to be something. That's beyond a heroic dose, dude. What the fuck? Five dried grams and he's like, oh, I thought you meant THC. Sorry, Terrence. I didn't realize you were talking about mushrooms.

30:08SpeakerAnd it was fully decarboxylated. Of course it was.

30:13Etienne FontanImmediate uptake. Go, let's see. I just wish people could understand.

30:19BubblemanI wish people could understand. Decarboxylized. It's a SAM patented word. It's decarboxylized. Decarboxylization? It's lated.

30:30SpeakerI have a copyright on that.

30:32BubblemanIt's lated. It's not lysed.

30:34Johnny BI think I wrote that down in 2008.

30:38BubblemanBeautiful. Beautiful.

30:40SpeakerI see Johnny B just joined Clubhouse.

30:43Johnny BActually, I had a link to it and I was like, wow, Clubhouse, someone's trying to get me to join. I clicked onto it and I was like, okay. So I went over to Mark, checked out your Clubhouse, followed what you're following because that just makes sense because we like the same shit. And I'm going to check it out.

31:00BubblemanOh, you're going to weigh more than check it out, John. You'll be living on Clubhouse. He's going to be living on it. The amount of time that you have, you will be, you'll probably spend 10 plus hours on Clubhouse a day. And I'm not even joking.

31:15Johnny BI was just told you were on a group with somebody else that I know. I was like, really? And then within two seconds, I'm like, okay, that just made sense.

31:22Etienne FontanAnd Johnny, it's okay to not go on the stage. You want to be and have the energy. Sometimes I won't go on stage, so I just want to go in and listen. So don't feel compelled sometimes that you have to go on stage. It's okay to just sit back and just listen if you're not in the mood to speak. So just FYI. moderation because a lot of us fall in quickly deep in the next year everyone's inviting you to every single room to talk and discuss and there's nothing wrong with that but you want to be able to match the levels in the rooms and those levels can be mighty high so just realize check yourself before you wreck yourself sort of situation thank you good advice yeah i like that

32:04BubblemanThat's good advice because that site is absolutely bonkers and the caliber. I've been in some rooms where it's just been kind of really noobs and they're all like willing to learn. And then I've been in other rooms where it's like, you know, you just have the highest caliber of people talking about the things they know everything about. And it's really nice to listen to people, you know, speak eloquently and articulately.

32:30SpeakerCan we just talk for a second about the diversity? Yeah, I have noticed that just the different cultures and how they regard cannabis and how they use cannabis is blowing me away, as well as some of the knowledge some of them actually have and are bringing into their communities. I'm just I'm stunned with the the information that they do have. And I'm also so appreciative of the different cultures.

33:03BubblemanI agree. I've been I've been in rooms where I've definitely been a minority in the room and just loving the conversation and really getting into sort of these difficult conversations that maybe some people don't want to have, you know, and I've just I've enjoyed it all. I can't say enough about it. It's it's extremely diverse.

33:24SpeakerI actually brought it up in a very diverse room about how that there seems to be a difference between white culture and black culture when it comes to cannabis. And I got schooled and I appreciated it. I mean, I was just, I asked questions because I wanted to know, not because I was trying to have a bias. And they were open and honest and it was so refreshing and so appreciative.

33:51BubblemanTotally. Yeah, for sure. It wasn't in Clubhouse, but recently I was visiting a shop on Commercial Drive here in Vancouver run by this really great woman who is super dynamic and she's Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

34:36BubblemanWe also use traditional market to signalize the previous market.

34:50Etienne FontanThat seems to be a better understanding for what the underground market is that we like here in California came from. So we tend to use traditional markets. So when we're saying traditional market, that's what we're meaning, that that has been traditionally the underground market.

35:06Collin PalmerYeah, ATN, that's how we've called it on the East Coast, New York. You know, all these states that are coming online, we've always consistently called it the traditional market because that's traditionally how we would get our cannabis. So I concur with that.

35:24Dr Mark ScialdoneNomenclature matters. I think how ironic that it like, I used to use the term black market all the time and not even think about the origin of the word until this year when Black Lives Matter really brought it out that, hey, wait a second. The reason why it's called the black market is because they wanted to associate it with black people. It's like, that's totally wrong. I'm never going to use that again.

35:53BubblemanWell, exactly. There's a guy in the room right now who says, I don't think a black market is having a negative connotation. And that might be part of your white privilege. But when I spoke with this black woman, she guaranteed had a problem with it. She did. She wasn't upset, but she asked me respectfully. Not to use the term around her. And I was absolutely happy to comply.

36:12BubblemanIt's like, why would you use terms that create uncomfortableness or a hostile environment?

36:18Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you say white privilege, Mark, because we're all white here and we don't understand that, you know, for us. And so for someone to be in a different color skin and for them to react to those words and to school us, I mean, hey, that's a schooling that I'll take. Please.

36:36SpeakerAbsolutely. I agree with you, Mark. And if someone's telling you that, it's like, why not just respect them? You know, why buck them? Just say, okay. And it's just, it's about everyone appreciating different cultures. That's the love.

36:52BubblemanIt's funny how much this conversation is upsetting people in chat right now. There are absolute people in chat who are like, you're being too sensitive. Oh, geez, I'm leaving. And it's like, You know, that's your privilege, bro.

37:03Etienne FontanI'm glad I can't see Chad. You have to accept it with humility. You cannot, you know, again, that's coming from a place of privilege. If you cannot listen to other cultures and listen to look through their eyes and their perspective, then you need to step back a second because I have an evolved person. And so, you know, just being bald, going to dead shows, I was considered a narc or a cop because I looked a particular way.

37:31Etienne FontanSo, I understand what it felt like. I've been chased up trees because I was a punk. I'd have eggs thrown at me. I've had people try to beat me up and challenge me. So I understand from a slight perspective, but I'm still a white male. So I don't understand from a black, brown, Native American perspective, et cetera, from every other color. So it behooves me to Thank you.

37:53Etienne FontanThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

38:19Etienne FontanGrant, Clubhouse, one of the most amazing things is that you are forced into diversity in these diverse discussions because they are the moderators. They are having the discussions and sometimes they are specific. And I recommend going into these rooms. I'm part of various other rooms of equity and color because I want to learn. I want to listen. I want to absorb so that I can be aware of that perspective because it's important because we've ignored perspective for so long.

38:49Etienne FontanWe need to be more listening than necessarily talking.

38:54SpeakerYeah, MTN, your words are resonating very, very, very strongly with me. If I could hug you through the computer, I'd be hugging you.

39:03BubblemanLet's all hug each other. Come on. Let's all puff a bowl. I'm down with smoking a little hash this morning. I would love that, Marcus. I think it's a brain hug.

39:15Etienne FontanA high is a brain hug. Let's get a brain hug for everybody.

39:18Collin PalmerWhat is everyone smoking on right now? That's a question I'd like to... Oh, I love that.

39:24Etienne FontanWhat is that, Marcus?

39:26BubblemanThis is a little strawberry banana hash rosin.

39:29Collin PalmerOh, look at me. I got the, I got strong Nana right here too, man. Nice. Hey, Chad.

39:37Etienne FontanWhat are y'all smoking on? That's always this way.

39:42BubblemanJosh and Kelly. Yay. Alien OG. I think they just showed up at the perfect time.

39:49Etienne FontanA full vat. Jesus Christ, Dragonfly Earth. What the hell is that jar of love?

39:55SpeakerYum. Yum.

39:58Collin PalmerYeah, Jack Herrera, nice, my favorite. Even though it's low yields on the hash, I still love, it's my all-time favorite. It's just.

40:10Dr Mark ScialdoneI've been so aware of so many Kush Terps. What, Jack is a low yielder, is that right?

40:17Collin PalmerYeah, it's so so the resin on Jack is just for me, at least I don't know what Jack's you guys are growing because there's everyone has their ideology of what Jack Herrera is. But I find that resin to be too greasy in the micron sizes are are lend towards smaller head sizes. So I get a larger yield in a forty five. All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started.

40:42Collin PalmerSo we're going to get started.

40:57Collin PalmerBut it's, yeah, you know, I walk around and I feel the resin and I have, you know, over the years I've kind of developed my own version and I'm sure everyone has their own version of what resin works for them and their particular process. So I find the things that are less, that are more greasy to be lower yielding in the bags that I'm not, you know, honing in on as much such as the 90 and 73, but I still love it.

41:21Collin PalmerYou know, I just, like I said, I'll wash that all day.

41:25Etienne FontanAll day. I found Jack to be a great mortgage maker, but not necessarily something that's in my stash. You know, again, from the hash to the flower, I've just never been a fan of that particular varietal. And yeah.

41:41BubblemanWell, I remember the year it was released in Amsterdam. I remember Sensi had a big plant of it on the top floor of the PAX party house in the back corner of the room. And I'm not sure if it was like ninety five.

41:55Etienne FontanYeah, it was ninety five because I was at the no, I think it was ninety six because we went to the castle when they actually did it with exactly this castle castle. Yeah, that was a wow, because we got to then go see the flowering father that was all flowered out downstairs. They have an actual father that was fully flowered out. That was like, because I've never seen a fully flowered out male to that point.

42:18Etienne FontanAnd I was just like, holy shit, that's fucking badass. And we're in a cannabis castle.

42:23Dr Mark ScialdoneNuts. So is the phenomena that leads to low yield, is that what you were saying, Colin, like a certain degree of greasiness that has to do with not being able to get good

42:42Collin PalmerAaron Ward, Head Recovery, or what what's what's exactly the so there's a few things that you know this is anecdotal we we need to get deeper on the understanding of why trichomes are collected and sieved easier than others um but i think there's a there's a trifecta happening you have the head size You have the terpenes that are being created, and then you have the way that it's grown, right?

43:06Collin PalmerAnd all these things together create what I consider the pyramid of how you can select for resin and select for a yield. And that is not a silver bullet. You're going to have every varietals and every phenol and every even phenotype is going to have a different expression, and that expression is going to be Aaron Wiggins, T.D.A.T.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.T.E.S.

43:53Collin PalmerI look for color, I look for clarity, I look for all that stuff, but it all has to do with the three things I was talking about. But we need to better understand why this is happening. I'm sure Marcus has a lot of insight on that too.

44:10Collin PalmerI found that, for instance, some heads are hydrophobic. They want to float in the water. So, you know, I've definitely looked at things under a microscope and I'm trying to better understand it, but we're still a long ways away from really having like, hey, this is what you need to look for.

44:27SpeakerSo there's, you know, I would say one other point that you're missing is when you're making dry sift, how long you dried and cured and aged the resin before you sift it, that was on the plant. We always tried to do it for three months because that gave us more of a raisin rather than a grape. And it was a lot easier to work with. Do you ever take a look at just looking at the act of water or take a look at the relative humidity in the room?

45:00SpeakerBecause I like my, when I do my collecting of like say first balance, I always wait, hang dry for about three weeks. And then that last day or two, I dropped the humidity from like 65 down to like 50% just to do that first little bounce and then it raises back up in the room. So that's something that I do to get that kind of like that first little first melt.

45:24Collin PalmerSo, Johnny, are you talking about doing a dry, like dry material wash? Is that what you're talking about?

45:30SpeakerBut just making it first bounce, like hang drying your plants and then taking that first little dry sip. And then from there, I, I used to like, I got different methods of doing like making for hash, but I'm just listening to the conversation. I really like it because I mean, I look at some yields like I'm having problems pulling bags now. So it's just getting really bad on my back.

45:52SpeakerSo I'm trying to find other ways of of actually like you're saying how the resin is collecting because I get like less yields on some strains. But I mean, when I just took right now, I took some of my stuff and I gave it to Tim to make an extraction for me and it came back with fire like Terpenes, everything is like something I've never really had before.

46:13Collin PalmerSo a lot of the work I'm speaking on is just fresh frozen stuff. Now I do do dry washes often, but in terms of what I've been doing for the past few years is really focusing on fresh frozen washes and trying to up the yield in that realm because I'm looking mainly the stuff I've been looking for are a lot of the fresh terpenes off the plants, not so much the terpenoids, if you will, So I think that, you know, if we can clarify for the audience here, the thing that I was talking about was really about fresh frozen.

46:46Collin PalmerBut I think when you're getting into what Johnny's talking about, I think he's right. There's, you know, there's dry, there's techniques for your dry cure that you really need to pay attention to that go beyond fresh frozen. And it's almost sometimes a different approach, if you will, to collecting the resin heads.

47:06SpeakerRob Frasca, Jr.: Like I just said, I just I put everything in the freezer this time. So I got like 10 pounds of wheat in my freezer to start washing.

47:14Collin PalmerYeah. But yeah, so sorry, I was just going to going to say, you know, there's there's so many different ways for everyone to collect heads. And I think we're you know, we've all been doing this for I mean, since we were young and, you know, two decades later, I think we're and even Sam just pointed out something really helpful as you're curing and how you cure it.

47:36Collin PalmerAaron Wittes, MD, PhD, PhD, PhD, PhD, PhD, PhD, PhD, PhD.

47:53Collin PalmerYou know, a lot of people look at dates and they want to know that that was harvested on a specific date. And if it's like X amount of months old, they kind of look at it in an adverse way. And I think to Sam's point, that's not really a right way to look at it. You know, you have varying quality of different techniques to get to the same place.

48:14SpeakerWell, you do lose a bit of terpenes when you age for three months. I'll admit that. But I prefer the smoke from aged, dried cannabis. And I find the wet frozen, fresh frozen stuff, it's too terpy for me. And maybe it's the wrong terpies. The more volatile ones are still there. And I'm getting rid of a little bit more of those. But whatever people like, I'm in favor of it.

48:50SpeakerThere is a million ways to do it. That's for sure.

48:53BubblemanIt's a very different product, I will say, because the year that I went to the cup and I had made some dry sift from Matt, the great gardener's sweet skunk, and it was incredible, really beautiful stuff. It was Well, long cured. And then I sifted it and kept it for like six plus months before I ended up at the cup. And everyone, this was kind of one of those years where it was all just starting the faux melt crew caught on.

49:18BubblemanLike I can't make faux melt, but I can certainly make faux melt. If I start using fresh frozen material and I shred the heads with a microplane, I've got melty hash. And I coined that term faux melt. And that was really the initial start of fresh frozen. And Capturing all of these monoterpenes that generally we've been curing out of the product for decades because they're super fucking harsh.

49:42BubblemanThey're not lovely terpenes to inhale into your lungs. And that year was a year that tons of people had fresh frozen bubble and live rosin and everyone was bragging about their fresh frozen and you take a hit and it was just like razor blades in your throat. It would just stop you dead and you cough, cough, cough, cough, cough. Well, this sweet skunk resin that I had, I remember smoking it with Tony from Sagamarta Seeds.

50:07BubblemanAnd we were at, I think we were in Hank's apartment above the Bulldog and the Leidseplane. And so he had been smoking and it was kind of the end of the night and there was a ton of people in the room. I remember Rare Dankness and DNA and Remo and tons of good folks were in the room. We were all puffing. And Tony is just like, he came up to me.

50:27BubblemanHe's like, man, bubble man, you got to have something for me to smoke. Like I can't smoke this stuff anymore. It's killing my throat. And it was why we all left with, you know, one of the reasons we all left with the cannabis cough, like with those monoterps for sure. And he hit some of this sweet skunk and I'll never forget him sitting back on the chair and blowing this huge cloud out and just looking over at me and being like, Now that is what I'm talking about.

50:52BubblemanA properly cured hash that doesn't cut your throat and shred your throat. And it was just, it stood out as an anomaly at the cup that year because literally, you know, maybe the only person that, the only other person that had something like that would have been Sam where he actually had cured the flower, dried it out. Dry sifting is not a misnomer. Like making those heads look like, look like, um, Raisins is definitely part of the trick.

51:19BubblemanYou know, getting them off of the plant when the wax membrane is still like full of moisture and it's still whole and doesn't have those ripples and wrinkles in it is also, you know, you're going to end up having to reduce the moisture content of your hash down the road. I'm sure Cuban must have to be doing that because he's extracting those heads when they're when they're barely dry.

51:39BubblemanYou can tell by photographing his resin, they're all full and have very little wrinklage in them whatsoever. If you look at the heads that I photographed from Sam, they've all been properly cured out for, I mean, I don't know how long you did it, Sam, but it seemed like the material must have sat for months.

51:55SpeakerI cured him for three months, the plant material, after I dried it for two weeks in the dark hanging. Then I boxed it for three months and cured it. And then I sifted it. And I always sifted it when the humidity was super low, because if you tried For example, if you tried using one of Mila's machines in a hot, humid place, the resin, it just gunks up.

52:24SpeakerIt gunks up the screen. It gunks. It's horrible. Your yields are ridiculously low.

52:30BubblemanYou weren't a Tumblr guy, though.

52:33SpeakerNo, but I used it just, you know, because it was available and it was easy. You're right. I used big, flat... They were aluminum stretched silk screens. I remember. And they were really quite big. I mean, Most of the ones I used were like six by four feet or something like that.

52:55BubblemanYeah, I think you even had like, I think it was like eight foot by five foot I measured one time. And I'll never forget how much we made, how fast we made it when you, me, and our other friend were there. And I was just like, he's just like, go grab one of those, go grab one of those barrels. And he's just got like a wall of these barrels.

53:15BubblemanAnd I'm like, what's in the barrel? And he's like, oh, that's, we're going to sift it. It's just like full of like, like, Thank you so much for joining us today.

53:48SpeakerI think it took more like 10 minutes, but whatever.

53:52BubblemanWhatever. 10 minutes to make 4,000 grams is ridiculous, dude. And the picture of after you cleaned it and you were like, here, this is all the garbage, but it still looked like sift. And I threw it in your toilet and took a picture of it in your toilet. Man, people could not wrap their heads around that shit at all. People were having a hard time with that picture for years afterwards.

54:14BubblemanThey were just like, what? Tossing kilos of sift down.

54:19SpeakerThat's the difference when you have enough to do things right, then it, you know, I would have preferred to not even use de-seeded, but I have a lot of that available, so.

54:34BubblemanRight. That's true.

54:36Johnny BIndeed. Good old days. I always like a three-month cure. That's just the best.

54:40SpeakerRight now, High North, Frenchie, Cannoli, and Laughlin are doing these really awesome testing with curing hash and what happens with the cannabinoids and the terpenes. And it's just really cool to be watching that. So it's got really old, old hash. And then as it's aging, they're testing it. And it's just super awesome to follow.

55:01Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI love the land-based hash that they've tested. It wasn't bad.

55:06BubblemanHere, you just inspired me, Kelly. You just inspired me. This little dab right here is 12 years old. I just took a little chunk off my deck. I'll have a little dab of the 12-year Master Kush that tastes like the most perfumed out terpenes you could ever imagine. The terpenes have changed completely, but they're still present in this hash after this long.

55:30SpeakerHow was the material? Was the material kept frozen?

55:34BubblemanNope. The material hardened on the outside and sealed the inside. It's as hard as a rock. It's like...

55:42SpeakerI understand. Yeah.

55:43Collin PalmerBecause... Marcus, what was the stuff that we used in Canada? What was that? Sorry?

55:49SpeakerI kept stuff for about 15 years frozen. And it seemed like it was only a month older. I mean, it really hardly changed.

55:59BubblemanI remember that stuff. I believe it was from your 91 harvest. Am I correct?

56:05SpeakerYou've got a better memory than me.

56:08BubblemanI just remember because our friend the fat man also used to have a little bit and he would always come to my hotel at the Krasnopolsky and be like, I brought you a little bit of the 50 and it's like, it's 16 years old now or it's 14. He got it actually, he got it up to like, I think 19 or 20 years old. He still had a little bit, but his was completely red and it was void of all flavor and terpenes by the time it was 20 years old.

56:35BubblemanIt was because it was also in powder. And it just, it was very unique in the sense that when I hit it, it was the most creeper weed product I've ever hit in my life. And I don't know if that was because it was avoided.

56:48SpeakerI don't think he kept that stuff frozen. I don't think so either. Yeah, exactly. If you keep it frozen and away from oxygen and light and heat, it really, really barely changes. Marcus, what... Thank you all for doing that for science because I smoke it all. I would never save a hash for 10 years. I mean... Well, you could not smoke what we had. When you're making a kilo or 10 kilos a hash a day, you can't smoke it, really, believe me.

57:20SpeakerTrue that.

57:21Collin PalmerTrue. Hey, Marcus, what was the stuff that you and I had a couple years ago when I came to visit you in Vancouver? Do you remember the variety that was with Daniel? And I just remember it being super dynamic and I was so lit all day from that. Was it Where's My Bike? I don't remember. It was like over 10 years old that you, it was this, you just, you're like, look, we got to try this.

57:49Collin PalmerThis is like, I've had this for over a decade.

57:52BubblemanJeez, it was probably the Master Kush. It was probably this Master Kush.

57:58Collin PalmerIt was, it was, yeah, it was just really dynamic. It was very different from what I, at the time, had been, you know, you know, used to the monoterps and the sesquiterps that, you know, are so in your face. And then you have this totally different experience off this material that's been aged. And it's just super different in terms of, you know, the feeling and the overall effect profile.

58:23Collin PalmerBut it was amazing.

58:24BubblemanWell, I'm excited to be going in for a dab of it right now. So how about that?

58:29Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm looking at Frenchie's data that he posted a week or so ago. Wow. 12 years, 13 years. Sam and I had commented on this. I think I'm looking at Angel Vasquez's comment here. But if you look at it, he's just seeing decarboxylation on Chris Brown, Storage, which is Chris Brown, Nothing expected really and and I guess the only other interesting aspect of this is if you look at the age stuff all sudden there's THCV and in all the other previous examples there weren't any THCV So what that tells me is that the age sample has lost considerable amounts of terpenes, which basically now moves the amount of THCV, which was always there to begin with, but was diluted by the fact that the earlier samples had terpenes in there just diluting the THCV.

59:28Dr Mark ScialdoneNow that the age hash sample has lost its terpenes, you could actually get a more better representation of the John Seigenthaler, of the cannabinoid profile. It's interesting though, like from one to one, one data point to the other, he shows THCA going down, which is what you would expect, right? Because THCA decarboxylates to make THC. A THC number goes up a little bit accordingly, and you see a little bit of rise in CBN.

59:56Dr Mark ScialdoneBut actually, very strangely, CBDA goes up. What the fuck, man? How do you make more cannabinoid acids on standing? You don't do that. So what that tells you, again, is somewhat of the sensitivity of the HPLC measurement itself. I mean, you're getting into the weeds where making small differences of these numbers are really going to have a big impact. And whether it's 67% or 68% or 65%, it's going to really make a big difference because

1:00:29Dr Mark ScialdoneSteve Sorenson, MD, As you start to lose your terpene content in age-tashed material, what you're going to be left with is the non-volatile components of your extract, which are going to be the cannabinoids. Cannabinoids don't volatilize. They will decarboxylate with time, and you'd expect to see that. I recently ran a test of a piece of Panama Red that was 10 years old and had no THCA in it All right.

1:00:57Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us today. We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back after the break.

1:01:26Dr Mark ScialdoneSteve Sorenson, MD, He's been working with us for a long time. Steve Sorenson, MD, He's been working with us for a long time. Steve Sorenson, MD, He's been working with us for a long time. Steve Sorenson, MD, He's been working with us for a long time.

1:01:56Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, it's really there's there's there's two aspects about post harvesting. Uh, or production in cannabis. And one is drying, right? Because there's a lot of water in the material, right? So plant material has to be dried, but then there's curing and they happen independent from one another. They're not necessarily related. Although curing happens during the drying process, drying happens pretty quickly, getting down to the point where you're drying the flower material below the point at which it could support mold growth.

1:02:28Dr Mark ScialdoneTypically, that number used to be 14%. I've seen the hemp industry here in the U.S. want to move that number down to 11%. Typically, when we take biomass in a building, we like to see anywhere between 10% or lower in just water activity in the biomass. That'll tell you that it won't foul. But where that is also really, really important, too, is that Steve Sorenson, MD, If you're measuring cannabinoid content and you're measuring it on fresh biomass that's got water in it versus dried biomass, which has got no water in it, you're going to get a completely different result, right?

1:03:06Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you have to be able to take your fresh cannabis Weigh it, characterize it, dry it, right? Pull all that water out because that water creates weight and all of that weight is gonna throw your cannabinoid measurement off. It's gonna make it seem like it's a lot lower than it is when actually the cannabinoids in the dried biomass are greater than they are in the wet biomass because water, there's quite a bit of water in freshly grown biomass.

1:03:33Dr Mark ScialdoneBut just to mention one thing about the cure is that it's important And I guess this speaks to something that Sam has always talked about, you know, that that harshness of fresh cannabis and what we know from doing terpene profiling is that there's an abundance of a particular single terpene called myrcene. You can think of myrcene as kind of like the mother of all terpenes. Myrcene can go in five different ways to five different terpenes, which can go to five different terpenes and so on and so on.

1:04:07Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what happens in the curing process is actually that myrcene doesn't only evaporate, it also is oxidized and converted over into oxygenated, oxygenated terpenes or terpenoids, right? So once terpenes react with oxygen, so oxygenated terpenes, an example is linalool, like linalool has an oxygen and there's other terpenes like camphor that have oxygen. So as soon as they have an oxygen molecule, now it's going to completely change the flavor profile because the flavor of those oxygenated terpenoids changes the overall essence of the native terpene profile when the plant is freshly harvested.

1:04:50Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I believe that that curing process is not only evaporating, which again, maybe cuts back a little bit on the harshness of just too much terpenes, But it also changes the terpenes chemically into a kind of like an aged wine profile or an aged cheese profile. You know, cheese and wine in particular are things that are aged. And when they're aged, they're aerobically reacting with air and kind of changing up things a little bit to make them a little bit different in how they taste and What their flavor is.

1:05:29Collin PalmerOkay, now we're getting Mark that, you know, I've noticed over the years with dry sift versus fresh frozen versus, you know, dry material processing, the experience and the terpene profiles are vastly different. And the taste profiles are vastly different, even though they represent one another in some form factor or another. The terpene and the terpenoid are very different in terms of taste on one's palate. So do you have any explanation for why this age process, you know, is similar profiles but very different feelings?

1:06:09Dr Mark ScialdoneThe oxygenated terpenes are, you know, carvone is one carvone.

1:06:20Dr Mark ScialdoneOne isomer of carvone. So, you know, when I say isomers or enantiomers, they're kind of like your hands. And so there's a right-handed version and there's a left-handed version, right, left, right, left. And one of them smells, one of the versions of carvone smells like rye bread, like caraway seeds. So, you know, if you get freshly cut rye bread and it's got the caraway seed, that caraway, the other one, which is just the mirror image of this molecule is completely spearmint peppermint.

1:06:49Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, Larry Thompson, You know how the human palate has developed Larry Thompson, The ability to ascertain the differences in these molecular structures to give different, you know, elicit different reactions is just, it's amazing. It's how sophisticated the human palate is and why we can taste. Thank you so much for joining us today. We're going to talk about the different elements of cannabis. And so like we were talking last week about what the most valuable terpene and I'm on, I'm on team terpenylene.

1:07:19Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, you know, terpenylene again, actually there's a couple of different versions of terpenylene and, and cannabis again, creates this opportunity to really exploit all these compounds in different ways that they

1:07:40Dr Mark ScialdoneTerpenes that drew humans to cannabis, it was cannabinoids that made them stay.

1:07:46SpeakerI just wanted to say, Mark, that when we did analysis stability testing, gee whiz, this was 25 years ago, what we found was that even after two years of storage, most of the THC was in the acid form. Most of the terpenes were gone. And that there was little to no CBN.

1:08:11Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Yeah. We were starting at this nugget of Panama Red, I think was just in a baggie, in a dresser drawer for like 10 years. So there was no special care to its storage or anything like that. But, you know, it's not at all, you know, unbelievable to think that, again, prolonged storage Steve Sorenson, MD, You know, in the right environment that that stuff is going to decarboxylate.

1:08:38Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's why when I looked at Frenchie's data, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, this looks, I would expect to see exactly, exactly this. And, you know, again, it would be interesting to look at, I guess, the terpene profile on aging, because what I would expect, and again, this is the stuff that we've already talked about episodes prior on Hatch Church, is that We would see Hashashin, am I not saying it right?

1:09:05Dr Mark ScialdoneWe would see the formation of Hashashin on the outside because it's a light catalyzed reaction. So where light is able to sort of react with the terpenes that are on the surface of the hash. I think what that paper talked about was sort of scraping off the surface and they found sort of like this oxidative degradation coat that where this Hashashin I'm not sure what degradation terpene would be, but I would expect that if you follow the terpene profile in the curing of the flower, that you would see exactly what Frenchy sees in his data too, which is that not only do the terpenes change, but they probably, they're fugitive, meaning that they evaporate, and once they evaporate, they go away.

1:09:52SpeakerIn India, you don't find hashishy, you find charsy.

1:09:59Collin PalmerSo, Mark, you know, I over time, I have some terpene samples that I've kept for around four years now in freezing, you know, minus in freezing conditions. And I'm seeing it being coming less viscous and more jelly like. Over time, and I'm waiting another six months to get the samples tested because I have a timeline on the shelf life study. But I'm curious to see how this consistency is going to match up with the profile's ability to show the spectrum of all the terpenes that were once present when we first put them in versus when we took them out versus what they've actually turned into.

1:10:40Collin PalmerAnd some have oxidized and some have not. So you're seeing color in some, but in others, you're not. So there's, you know, that alone, what you're touching on is, is really interesting to me because it's, it shows in, in, you know, just illustrates what we're actually seeing in real time in terms of a shelf life study.

1:11:04Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Well, and, and cannabinoids act as antioxidants. So cannabinoids actually stabilize the terpenes from oxidizing in certain ways, shapes or form. It's really interesting because with a lot of the hemp processing that's going on these days, I think the first goal of hemp was to sort of get CBD out the door. And I think now they're paying a little bit more attention to the minor cannabinoids and now finally the terpenes.

1:11:33Dr Mark ScialdoneSo again, I think what's really fascinating here is I think that like most of these people who are growing these beautiful varieties of hemp, Barry Perryman, MD, And then just basically treating it as just a raw ingredient to make CBD isolate are really missing most of the value that's what's in the plant, which is all the minor cannabinoids, the minor terpenes and everything. And even if you're trying to make a business model today of opening up a facility to turn hemp into CBD isolate, you're probably going to be pressed to not Well, you're probably going to be pressed to look at other adjacent opportunities because you're not going to be able to make a whole lot of money just selling CBD isolate these days.

1:12:19Etienne FontanSam, you've tested probably some of the oldest hashish or cannabis in the world. What are some of the things that have been found in those resins that are still left over? What are... What are the active, inactive...

1:12:40SpeakerI never tested hash that was older than about 15, 20 years, number one. And number two, I kept it frozen away from oxygen, away from light, and it barely changed.

1:12:55BubblemanYou preserved it. I had herb in my freezer for six years that I pressed into rosin and it was as loud as it would have been six years prior had I pressed it in before. The only problem was rosin didn't exist when it went into my freezer, but it did exist when I took it out six years later.

1:13:15Etienne FontanWell, then, Afghanistan, they used to bury the keef, right, a certain amount of feet deep to keep it cool back in the day before they actually pressed it. Correct, Sam? So, you know, is that where you learned just to keep it refrigerated in a cool dark place?

1:13:33SpeakerAlong with the story of, in India, naked people running through the plantation to scrape the hash off their bodies. But I'm not sure how much hash was actually buried or if the reason or I'm not sure. But yeah, I'm not sure hash gets better after being buried a year. Depends on temperatures. If it was really cold, it'd be fine. I just when I hear a story from From farmers or traditional hashish people, I take it with a grain of salt because one of the, like in India, I've talked to farmers there and they said, oh yeah, but papaya is from India.

1:14:28SpeakerBut it's not.

1:14:33Etienne FontanThank you for dismissing that misinformation. We appreciate you.

1:14:37SpeakerI think that it's also interesting just to bring the microbiology into this discussion is that when you keep it in the freezer and away from light, you're really not allowing colonization of microbiology on that hash. So You know, that's a big part of the breakdown as well. Oxidation, you know, also makes microbiology come alive, which is really cool to see aging studies and microbiology and the DNA of what comes alive and what is, you know, consuming the terpenes and the cannabinoids, just like totally mind blowing.

1:15:18Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'll let you say something in just one sec, Mark, but it would be interesting to do. You know, a resin curing test with a hydroponic herb and then something with a fully living soil one. I bet the living soil or the soil one would last longer and have longer probably terpenes in it. What do you think?

1:15:42Dr Mark ScialdoneI think microbes are going to eat up cannabinoids like it's, you know, young kids going to Dairy Queen. Chris Brown, You know, it's, it's readily available carbon and hydrogen energy for microbes. And yeah, it doesn't stand a chance. Everything, you know, microbes have figured out how to eat everything except the carbon-fluorine bond, right? They haven't figured out how to metabolize that, but they figured out everything else.

1:16:14Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd they can do what we used to call in the field mineralization, right? When you put samples out there and basically they're consumed immediately. I was on a project where we were looking at treatments for wood

1:16:35Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're talking about things that, you know, are chemicals that they inject into wood so wood can last in an outdoor setting without being eaten by termites or bugs. So as it turns out, the first infestation into wood It's not by termites, the things that eat, or not by fungus, it's by bacteria. Bacteria get into the wood and they basically ring the dinner bell for everybody else because the bacteria has to go in there and they have to start loosening up things in order for the termites and the fungi and all the other stuff to come in and start rotting the wood.

1:17:18Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it's just a microbial zoo of things that, again, has had the time course We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do.

1:17:53Dr Mark ScialdoneSteve Sorenson, MD, SILENT BUT GOLDEN, the, you know, fungi gets in there. And before you know it, the termites start eating up, it becomes a house for all kinds of microbes. And rotten wood is really, really important to reestablish the microbial flora of the forest floor. So it's really important to basically have this cycle that's been going for eons of evolution to continue.

1:18:23BubblemanI'd like to know how we started on that. Sorry. I just been learning my Discord in the background. What I saw was, you know, I figured out this Discord thing a little bit through watching these Harry Mack freestyle raps that he's been doing on Omegle, which if you haven't watched, you should absolutely watch. This guy's got the like highest vibration possible. He's absolutely crushing it. But he turned me on to Discord.

1:18:47BubblemanI haven't really been using it, but someone in the chat was like, I wish there was a Discord. I said, I have one. I shared it. And now there's a whole chat going on over here. You can kind of hear it in the background going, ba-bop, ba-bop. I'll have to turn that off soon. But you can share videos. You can share pictures. The chat room will be up forever now because it's a Discord channel.

1:19:06BubblemanSo it'll be a 24-7 hash church channel. The address is kind of strange. I'm going to put it in the link to this video when we're done. But I did share it as well.

1:19:18Etienne FontanCan you put it in the chat so I can join Discord?

1:19:21BubblemanYeah, I'll put it in the chat. No problem, Etienne. And it's like discord.gg. And then it's a bunch of silly letters like five or six, which I won't mention here. But I've got it in the chat room. I've got it in the private Zoom chat. And I'll put it in the comment section of this video when we're done. And I would suggest... Join us on Discord. The chat room will stay up forever.

1:19:47BubblemanI'll keep the link going as long as I can. And then it'll really kind of create these other six days of Hash Church that aren't happening where we can kind of maybe build through the chat room. So I just wanted to kind of chime in on that. Didn't want to change the subject too much because I really appreciate what you guys are talking about.

1:20:16BubblemanDiscord.

1:20:17Johnny BIt's just going to say, Mark, I have Discord, but set up a couple of different different chat rooms inside Discord. So I have a general set up some rules, set up stuff on like dry assist, set up stuff on hash, just like you have on your Facebook group. So it's really fun. I have a Johnny B grow room on Discord. I've had it for like over a year, but it's definitely awesome.

1:20:38Johnny BSo create different groups in there for yourself and have a hash church, just a separate topic just for hash church. So you'll set that in your channel and set up like five or 10 or whatever you want. And that way you have different parts instead of everybody just going to general and creating a huge just different thing in there. But it's awesome. I joined right away. I'm looking forward to Hash Church.

1:20:57Johnny BJohnny B Grow Room.

1:20:58Dr Mark ScialdoneIsn't that a Chuck Berry song?

1:21:01Johnny BYeah, the Johnny B Grow Room. I think it might be.

1:21:03BubblemanThanks, Johnny B. I just created the Hash Church Room.

1:21:11Collin PalmerReminds me of True Stoners from back in the day, man. Modern version of True Stoners chat.

1:21:19BubblemanAnd Etienne was the first in.

1:21:22Collin PalmerEtienne?

1:21:22Johnny BNice John.

1:21:24BubblemanAmanda's on now. Very good. Very good. Thanks for that, Johnny B. Thanks to Dirty and to Logan in chat who mentioned the Discord thing in the first place. And yeah, I think Discord is kind of like a place. Isn't it kind of like a MailChimp where you can kind of have all your social medias running through Discord and have your chats? Thank you so much for joining us.

1:22:05Johnny BAwesome.

1:22:06BubblemanI just have to figure out how to stop it from making. Oh, definitely.

1:22:09Etienne FontanRight up there, you see a little bell? Just hit that bell. It mutes the sound.

1:22:14BubblemanOh, I'll just hit the headphones. I don't see the bell, but there, you're right. Thank you. Muting a channel.

1:22:20Johnny BYou'll find different groups in there, too. I'm on like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven different Discord groups all related to cannabis, right? So, yeah, it's pretty awesome. You'll have a lot of fun in there. It's kind of like that first one you showed us with...

1:22:37BubblemanI got 58 people online in the chat room right now, which is obviously not as much as we have in the YouTube we have. And I want to say this, you know, the consistency that we offered in the last four weeks has raised our live viewers by about 20%. We were in and around the 400 range. Today we were at 567 people when we topped out for live people.

1:23:00BubblemanRight now there's actually 523. So We bumped up about 100 people, and it might not sound like that much, but when it's only 500 people, that's literally 20% increase. So I like the consistency, even if we don't have a conversation to talk about. I love the idea of gathering on Sundays, shooting the shit. Sometimes it's going to be stories about concerts and the old days, and other times it's going to be in-depth breakdowns on science.

1:23:26BubblemanAnd some days it'll be both. Yeah, it's good. I appreciate it. I want to say welcome to Mr. Alec Dixon. I was sharing your terpene chart earlier while Dr. Mark was talking. And I also want to welcome Mr. Best Friend Farms in the house. Brian, how are you doing, buddy?

1:23:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd Alice.

1:23:50BubblemanAnd Alice, girls in green. That's right. I didn't even welcome her. That's terrible of me. And I saw your better half was there with you as well. I think we're supposed to say that when we talk about our spouses, right? There are better halves.

1:24:02SpeakerYeah, they are. He's gone to the farmer's market though. Our church is on the same time as farmer's market. So we always have a hard time.

1:24:09BubblemanOh, my goodness. Well, I appreciate the first of all, I appreciate the energy because hash church does tend to be a little bit of a sausage party sometimes, maybe often. So I always appreciate the female energy. And I try to invite as many females as possible because I have a deep appreciation for your guys's perspective. So thank you.

1:24:32SpeakerThank you so much for having me here. And happy Sunday, everyone.

1:24:37BubblemanAbsolutely. Thank you. Let's have a puff and let's start talking. I want to see people exhaling. Inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale.

1:24:50Collin PalmerI think I'm going to get a little lemon cake in my lungs.

1:24:54Dr Mark ScialdoneMark, remember that post that you made this week on Facebook? You talked about, you know, rolling out your hash. And I asked you, can you share any data on this? Are you able to tell us about how great this material is that you guys are rolling out throughout Canada?

1:25:12BubblemanWell, okay. What I can tell you is a few things. I got to be careful. And anyone that hasn't muted their Discord and is still listening, have their mic open up here. And I'm looking at you, Johnny B. Mute that shit. Okay, so I can tell you a few things. And it's all, you know, it's all kind of funny. Like we can't mention the company that grew it because we don't have a deal with them to mention their company.

1:25:38BubblemanSo we're not keeping them in the shadows for any reason other than out of respect for them because they may go to market and release their own thing down the road. So we can't mention their name. But what I can mention is the cultivar. It was an Afghan Kush. It is an Afghan Kush. We are using flour. And because of the system in Canada, You know, when I first made my first batch and I got my seven to eight varieties, you know, 220 down to 25, you know, I understood suddenly that in order to get that to market, if you want to keep all of those microns separately, you will now need to do a $1,500 full test on like yeasts and molds counts, pesticides, herbicides, terpenes, cannabinoids, the full test.

1:26:26BubblemanAnd you'll have to do it times eight. So you increase.

1:26:30Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's $1,500 a test in Canada?

1:26:32BubblemanCorrect. Canadian. Yeah. So about like $1,100 bucks US or whatever. For a full, this isn't just cannabinoids or terpenes. Right. Whatever you call it. At least we're not paying $4,000 US a pound. So I mean.

1:26:45Collin PalmerNo, I mean, I'm just saying like for you, it's like, because I pay $650 and it's like, to me, that's tough. Right? US.

1:26:52Dr Mark ScialdoneI pay $685. $685. Right. For a full panel, exactly everything you just described.

1:26:58Collin PalmerI was thumb downing because it's just too much in my mind in terms of cost. But to your point, Marcus, what are we going to do? We have to do it, right?

1:27:07BubblemanWell, you know, and so you also have to make sure, here's another thing if you're going to sell to retail here. The provinces are the ones that order. So you're selling to like an entire state. That's who's ordering for every store in the state. So when you get a province and we've already gotten to, it's a big fucking deal. It's a province. There's millions of people that live in it and you just got a PO from a province.

1:27:31BubblemanSo here's the kicker. You want to release your 90 micron hash and you want to pay your 685 times eight bags to figure out what each micron is and keep them all separate. Well, the province might order 20 kilos of that from you, maybe even 30. And if they sell it really quick because it's such a spectacular material, You had better have another 20, 30 kilos ready for them when they want to order it.

1:27:55BubblemanAnd if you don't, you drop to the bottom of the key. It's not a good look if you can't supply what you've already supplied. Now, if you have five of these provinces and they're all ordering 20 or 30 kilos at a time and selling through it in a couple of months, how the fuck are you going to produce that much 90 micron hash? So it becomes a little bit of a trick.

1:28:17BubblemanWhat most people do with smaller batches here in Canada is they sell them into the medical market and you end up having the ability to kind of give a good deal, sell direct to customers. But it's quite different from Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:28:53BubblemanThe rest of it testing in between the 55 to 70 plus percent. And so what I was able to do was make two grades. I took sort of what I felt like were the best microns, 120, 73, 90, 45. Those all went into one grade. And then I made a B grade, which was like 190, 160, 25, which was still over 60%.

1:29:15BubblemanThank you so much for watching.

1:29:35BubblemanI know that that's good hash, but there's no mechanisms for me to smoke it, to test it, to try it. But what I did do is I took a little bit of powder and I gently hit it with a tiny little bit of heat. And what that did was it created this beautiful stained glass window. And we have shipped out our first batch of this. So I'm going to go buy some in the next couple of days, probably tomorrow.

1:29:57BubblemanAnd I'll smash it with the hair straightener and I'll be able to take some nice pictures of showing how clean and gold leafy it is. I suspect it's going to melt and boil into a beautiful liquid, but is it a six star? Is it a five star? Is it a four star? I hope we fall in the five plus, but because I haven't been able to try it, Thank you for joining us today.

1:30:37BubblemanPeople, I mean, man, I'm so excited that Hash has finally gone out from my company. It's under the brand Hank Co. And it is sold throughout British Columbia. The province has it now. So if you own a store and you want to give it a shot, give them a call and it'll be sold under the Hank brand. It'll be the Afghan Kush. And that's about what I can share for now, Dr. Mark.

1:31:03Collin PalmerThat's super cool, Marcus. Thanks, Mark. You've been working on that project for a really long time, and that's like, you know, I've watched you, you know, start that thing. Yeah, awesome. It's amazing, man.

1:31:15Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat does the hash analyze for? Like, what's its potency about, you know, ballpark? Like, what do you expect to see? What's typical?

1:31:24BubblemanOf the potency of the hash in regards to the THC content? Yeah, THCA, right? Wouldn't it be THCA? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, exactly, THCA. In and around like between like, you know, 60 to 70, this particular hash, the B grade is around the 60, the... We're going to get started in about a minute or so.

1:32:05BubblemanThank you for joining us.

1:32:24BubblemanI'm not completely blind. Suspective to bust out a fat and wasn't allowed to test it. He could probably still do a pretty good job on that. But obviously we want and need the ability to test. And I should, you know, give a shout out to Mike West as well, who's in the room, who's been working with me since like tirelessly on this project since the beginning. He's he's gone above and beyond.

1:32:49BubblemanAny human being's ability to put more of his time into this project, probably second only or tied with Craig, who's also one of my colleagues at Embark. And I just want to shout them both out because without the work they've done, we wouldn't be where we are right now. And a shout out to the whole team for that matter.

1:33:09Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, if you guys are running at the scale that those reactors are at, I mean, I'm sure everybody in the chat room, all the hash makers who are listening right now, They appreciate, you know, I mean, when you go from like home scale or, you know, like small production scale to that scale and you have that much material at stake, you're talking, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in one batch, I would assume, you know, and again, it's great to have Alec on here because again, like that third party testing result and the relationship that you have with your third party testing.

1:33:48Dr Mark ScialdoneAll right, guys, thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time.

1:34:12Collin PalmerYou know, to put that many scrams in perspective to continuously make at scale at a specific quality level is very, very detailed. And that's not something you just do overnight. And that's not something that you could take an at-home setup and really scale overnight with. That's years of Marcus honing in on all of this. And it goes beyond hash making in a lot of respect too. So it's, you know, major respect Marcus on all that.

1:34:44Collin PalmerThat's, you know, it's an incredible, you know, it's incredible.

1:34:50BubblemanYou know, I would be remiss if I didn't shout out Whistler Technologies and the two Dave's and Kelvin and Aaron and obviously the owner, Daniel, and the entire sales team, Krishna and Tyler and, you know, just the other Tyler. And we've got a great team over there. They've done an incredible job. I wasn't sure where I was going to land in this commercial commercial industrialized aspect of water extraction.

1:35:17BubblemanBut their heads, they came from the right place. They did all their their R&D at Whistler Medical over the course of years. And it's been really a blessing to link up with them, to hook up with them. Go check them out on Instagram at Whistler Tech, Whistler Technologies.ca if you want to check out the website. And yeah, we've done some pretty good things. I mean, I'm using 300 liters.

1:35:39BubblemanWe just sold a unit recently that was two times 2000 liters. And so we'll be talking about Rory and his team over at Sweetwater Hemp in Nebraska. These guys have been growing 3000 plus acres for decades. They've got contracts with Walmart. They're They grow veggies. They grow all sorts of different things. And now they're getting into the hemp game. They didn't want to be the same, same old ethanol extractors, hydrocarbon, CO2.

1:36:06BubblemanThey went a totally different route. And they've got this monster 4000 liter reactor. Actors 2000 times two. That was the first one we ever built at Whistler Technologies. It's up on my Instagram. If you want to go check it out, it's definitely ridiculous. And yeah, huge shout out to the entire team at Whistler Technologies for really You know, for doing a ton of this work, I could never take credit for it on my own.

1:36:34BubblemanI am merely one small component of it. And like I say, from guys like Skunk Man Sam, being able to stand on the shoulders of giants, to all of you panelists, to the people that are in the room, we're all in this together.

1:36:47Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're the Sherpa, right? The Sherpa, someone's got to lead the way. And, you know, I mean, you can't climb Mount Everest without a Sherpa. And, you know, I know they don't look very organized, but they're the people who get you there. They're the heroes, man. You're getting the industry to where they need to go. And you probably didn't think about this when you were first making Bubble, but, you know, it's like, how cool to see that.

1:37:12Dr Mark ScialdoneNot only, and, you know, again, we talked a little bit about this last time, but I don't think your viewers or the viewers really, really understand that when you spec something into good manufacturing process to GMP, It is just like all of your food and all your pharmaceuticals are made this way. And now you're applying this to the production of cannabis products. So it has all to do with your quality control and how you source your ingredients and your processes and the types of stainless steel you use in your tanks and everything.

1:37:46Dr Mark ScialdoneIt impacts everything. That's why all the people you see back in Margus's place Steve Sorenson, MD, Are all gown from head to toe because you can't have beard hair or mustache hair or, you know, and surgery and COVID, it must be an extraordinary challenge, again, to have people who, again, you don't know where their social distancing, you don't know who they're coming in contact with, right? And now you need to bring people into a facility, you have to basically know exactly who's coming in to where because, you know, there's a lot of material and inventory.

1:38:22Dr Mark ScialdoneSteve Sorenson, MD, At risk in these facilities. And again, this is why testing is oh so important. And so, Mark, the question I really have, and again, this is, you know, you don't have to answer, but certainly something that I think we could try to figure out, which is like, now that you're making like A water hash product. You know, really, it's probably really important to know like what the shelf life of these things are and like how you package it and how you produce it and how it's packaged.

1:38:51Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd then the quality control measures of, okay, there has to be like a certain level of moisture or a certain level of whatever terpenes in there. And when you're out of that window, sorry, that product does not meet specifications by GMP standards. That actually has to be removed and destroyed or reworked. You're nailing it. Yeah. The whole thing about reworking, the great thing about cannabis is something like hash.

1:39:17Dr Mark ScialdoneLike if it does foul or something like that, you could essentially rework it back through making distillate, or you could do something to clean it up. But part of your GMP quality control production processes that have to be in place for these facilities Have to go through every type of scenario that you could possibly imagine where you ship the material to ATN's dispensary. And now somebody buys it at ATN dispensary.

1:39:46Dr Mark ScialdoneThey take it home. They send it to a lab. Now it doesn't test for what the label says. And that guy comes back and wants his money back and say, hey, this stuff was supposed to be 74%. It's always tested at 65%. What the hell? Well, this guy went to this shady lab over here and this guy wants Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman,

1:40:27Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us.

1:40:42Dr Mark ScialdoneI know you don't do this by yourself and it's all these talented people, but these are people who bought into your vision and saw that, hey, you know what? We can take this high quality product that we can make at an artisan level and scale it up for the masses. And so I applaud your instincts, your bravery, and the people who basically put money behind you to make this happen.

1:41:09BubblemanYou want to talk a little bit about that, Mike, in regards to how we're kind of keeping that going on?

1:41:16SpeakerYeah, so part of the provincial... Hey, Mike. How's it going, buddy? Hey, Mark. Good. Can you guys hear me okay?

1:41:25SpeakerCan you guys hear me okay? Yes, sir.

1:41:28BubblemanYes.

1:41:29SpeakerOkay. Yeah, so part of the government's provincial rules, they allow up to a 5% variance from your labeling. So anytime you list a product, you actually have basically a plus or minus 5% of what you list on that label. When and if your product is deemed to have gone through the degradation, either by shelf life or by storage, to be more than 5%, you actually have to have that best by date listed on your label.

1:42:01SpeakerI'm sure Alec could probably talk a little bit more about determining shelf life tests. But once those tests have been determined for the hashes, we actually will have to recall them as well. So part of what we've done is actually taken a fairly standardized batch of flowers Ran it through a whole assortment of tests, separating out all the microns, testing them, figuring out which blends would work well to try and fit some desirable potency targets, and then combine those different types of hashes too, as Mark mentioned, kind of an A grade and a B grade, I think is what they're calling it right now.

1:42:46SpeakerKind of two different blends. There are different broad spectrums of different microns. And then as we actually start adding different products above and below those different grades, you'll actually start seeing the different grades come out, just like we see with the different snow ratings.

1:43:06Dr Mark ScialdoneMike, do those two fractions test differently? Like, would you see variations in cannabinoid and terpene levels between those two? So when you homogenize them, they make a sort of like a statistical difference?

1:43:21SpeakerIn general, the smaller terpene, the smaller microns will have a higher terpene to cannabinoid ratio. Obviously, some of those terpenes and primidine precursors are then stacked at the basal cells into the cannabinoids through within that glandular trichrome. So the highest potencies are in that 90 to 120 or 150 micron range, depending on the strain.

1:43:52SpeakerBut what we kind of did is figured out, okay, we know that these are going to be the ones that have the most mature glandular trichrome heads. They also test the highest and are going to contain the highest terpene content, blend those into kind of a higher grade one, which ended up coming out with a terpene content, which I don't have the paper in front of me, Mark, but I think it was 8% potency difference between our spread in the B grade and our A grade.

1:44:22SpeakerUm, which had the, basically the eight, the B grade had one or two of the larger glandular trichome heads to get a lot of potency. And then one or two of the smaller glandular heads, um, which would have high higher terpene contents.

1:44:36Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. I mean, it's interesting to think that maybe even with the physical size and difference that just in storage, like if you had this, like in a five gallon pail, that the dust at the bottom would test higher. I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question.

1:44:58Dr Mark ScialdoneI think that's a great question.

1:45:18Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd you're putting it out on the market, but obviously there's, you know, you know, it stays in inventory and warehouses or wherever. I mean, at what point does terpene loss start to really move the needle on cannabinoid content? So, like, if you look at if you look at this data that we were referring to earlier, this was some French canola data that he posted on Facebook. It just showed again, terpene loss that you would expect over a month.

1:45:50Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, there's less terpenes there. So actually you could see the impact now on cannabinoid content. So is there a point at which say, well, we made that hash say six months ago. Now the terpene loss has been sufficient enough that if you were to test it for cannabinoids, now you're going to find a different number.

1:46:12SpeakerSo the governments only regulate the, they basically say anything you put on the labels have to fall within a certain 5% range before it falls out of spec. They don't regulate the terpenes, but unfortunately the government of Canada doesn't require terpenes to be listed on labels. Oh, okay. I wish they would, but it's not required and not done by producers. Yeah, bummer.

1:46:39Dr Mark ScialdoneMark Doyle, Yeah, here in Pennsylvania, they put on like the five most prevalent ones that they find, but I think they run a test for, I believe, 20 different terpenes, and I think if you want, you could actually go to the, when you go to the dispensary, they could actually give you the report from the lab itself, so. Wow, what a bummer that they're not testing for terpenes, man.

1:47:00Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, they do.

1:47:01BubblemanThat's not true, Mark. They do test for terpenes. What Mike said, if you listen to him, was that the government of Canada does not require it. But some people do it and everyone tests for them.

1:47:12SpeakerOkay. Yeah. So what we're able to do is kind of collect those tests for our own data. But in order to actually put them on the label, you have to actually fit them within the box. It's not required. Um so yeah well what we ended up I think our work mark where we were required to put the total cannabinoids, THC, CBD um I don't think that they require labeling on the minor cannabinoids but many producers will if they see uh minor cannabinoid peaks they will list it um but there's no no government mandated the Chris Brown, Labeling of terpene profiles yet on the, on the consumer packaging.

1:47:58SpeakerChris Brown, So, but yeah, what they did, what they did require is, you know, whatever you label and yeah, when you actually submit your labels, there's a range that you have to submit your labels into. Chris Brown, And so, and plus or minus 5% within that range, every, every sample or test that they pulled, they're going to have to test that. So when we had to go through and list what are our proposed products for bubble hash, anytime you have that spectrum of different ranges, each one of those potential product lines has to be listed as a new and novel cannabis product, NNCP, just like you're listing a different grade of alcohol, tobacco, or other regulated substance.

1:48:45SpeakerSo it becomes a relatively complex thing. But what most of the provinces want to be able to see is that you have relationships with existing farms. You can supply however many shops that are buying from the province because the province has essentially a monopoly distribution on the distribution. We as producers ship to the province. The province then ships to the retailers or puts it online for sale.

1:49:14SpeakerSo we have to end up shipping big orders to the provincial warehouses within the states. So it's, it makes it a lot harder for the craft farmers because they can't just start marketing to the small local shops in the neighborhood. But there are a few provinces that have started allowing what's called farm gate retail distribution. Yeah, so that that's our Well, what Mark's showing right now is the pallet that we were wrapping up, getting ready to ship to the province of British Columbia.

1:49:48SpeakerAnd that went to an undisclosed location here in D.C. How much product is that right there, Mike? So that's 600 kilos of packaging and 5.4 kilos of hash. So 5,400 grams.

1:50:10SpeakerBut when you look at all the cardboard inside of black Myron jars with its own custom labeled, and then those had to be kind of packaged into what the government wants as master cases, just like they want specific numbers. So, you know, six packs of beers. A lot of the provinces want set units in the cases that they're offering to retail stores.

1:50:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI have a question for you when you do make seven or eight different bags of cash and you separate them all out and you find that you know that you it's well it's worth testing the 90 and the 73 and maybe the 120 can you take the other ones combine them and make rosin out of that make one product out of that and then test that one product yeah oh yeah you can do that yeah you just have to kind of target you know the minimum provinces want to order is a couple of kilos

1:51:06SpeakerSo each one of those fractions have to be A couple of kilos, right?

1:51:12BubblemanWell, we already explained that. And if it goes, if it goes higher, it becomes impossible. How are you going to make 10 kilos of 90 micron hash from a certain skew within 5% of a range and then have the province order more like a month later and say, well, we want double that. We want 20 kilos now. And Ontario saw what we were doing. They want 30 kilos.

1:51:31BubblemanCan you make that happen? Because we need it right away. You get yourself into a situation where you can't maintain the pathway.

1:51:39Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, and you have to do it in one batch too, right, Mark? You can't do it in like small artisans who don't have the size of equipment that you have. They'd have to make that in 10 batches. Well, now there's just going to be variation in those 10 batches where you have one big master batch because of the size of your vessel.

1:51:59BubblemanYou know, I mean, definitely challenging. You know, it's definitely challenging, but Mike and I love a good challenge. So we've been we've really been kind of enjoying the journey. And this is just the beginning of it. And I, I am definitely going to get to a place where I can have my own bubble man branded hash under micron specific, you know, microns. But it's just it's you know, it took me 30 years just to get to this might take some more months to get to that.

1:52:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI was wondering maybe if we've talked a lot about that to bring Alice into it and talk about what's happening in California. What kind of things are you having to get through to get hash to the market in the current situation in California?

1:52:42SpeakerAnd I just wanted to say really quick, adding on to what Mike was saying just for the listeners, when something is not required, such as listing terpenes, Then that means that, you know, the small farmers and the small micro licensed people that are growing these beautiful flowers or products would really like to have that listed. They pass it over to the LP and the LP, because it's not required, they just won't put it on there.

1:53:06SpeakerSo it doesn't really stand out at all. So this is the problems of, you know, not requiring it because then the LPs have the power to decide what to do. And yes, I would love to hear from you, Alice, as to what's going on in California.

1:53:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd Flynn.

1:53:27SpeakerWell, actually, Flynn is better, yeah, to answer this one. Yeah, you can talk about pulling up. Well, you go first.

1:53:36Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineLook at these two cuties. Look at these guys. Let's just relish in the cuteness.

1:53:41Dr Mark ScialdoneYou go first. No, you go first. No, no, no, no, no, no.

1:53:46SpeakerAll right. Somebody decide. Yeah, if Alice is taking a dab, I'll let her weigh in a little bit. Yeah, California, I'm just hearing what you were just describing about Canada with packaging, labeling requirements. You know, a lot of that's very similar in the new license space in California. And so... You know, pretty much labeled and packed into the testing space, but, you know, kind of empowers you to be plus or minus 10% of final label.

1:54:24SpeakerYou know, I was going to mention it's like incredibly difficult, you know, for I mean, it seems like Canada kind of took all the kind of greatest of kind of a lot of the states, including California, and then kind of really went. You know, from from what I've seen, there was definitely a lot more. Yeah, there's there's. It makes it really, really difficult for people to get products.

1:54:52SpeakerFor one, I have to work with an incredibly dialed lab that can kind of ensure that their quality and Thank you for joining us.

1:55:26SpeakerThank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:55:56SpeakerYou know, and it seems like California or it seems like Canada took those action limits and severely made it tighter. So, like, from what I saw, it was about, what, 10 part per billion is the average allowed level of what's going to create a fail, which is on its own. It's pushing the boundaries of analytical chemistry's ability to test at those tiny levels, not to mention the accuracy and precision that those labs are going to be able to kind of do on an ongoing level.

1:56:32SpeakerYeah, no, I'd agree. I'd agree with like everything, everything you said for sure. And then a lot of it comes down to like the cost of testing, the cost of putting your product in the marketplace and then having to be really conscious of like the super high levels of taxes that your product's going to have. Even before it hits the like retail level, so to speak, because you'll be taxed at the distribution level.

1:56:58SpeakerAnd then you'll be taxed three different times on the sales. So you have to be ultimately conscious about when you're doing a batch and you have to pay for testing, how many dollars or how many cents does that add to each unit and keeping that cost to a minimum, stuff like that. And then also a lot of the Things are really hard to control because you're forced to use other businesses that you might not own or have control of through the line of Aaron Wynne, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design, Product Design,

1:57:52SpeakerStuff like that and keeping control of your product all the way down to when the customer actually gets it is, A lot harder in this system that they've created. And for full melt is crazy. Like how hard it is for you to deliver. It's just tough. Preserved like perfectly like heads full melt for the final customers too. It's kind of really hard on the legal market. A lot of kind of where we've been moving in the market for California has been toward like a heavily controlled like delivery service and more like a subscription service because with our product, It's really hard to communicate to each individual retailer how to handle it.

1:58:32SpeakerAnd then each buyer, because let's say, oh, you talk to the manager who's there on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, but then your delivery comes in on Tuesday and the dude who's taking in your product, you never talk to. And he never got communicated to how to handle your specific product because it's so different. So then your product gets intake and then sits on a shelf at like 80 degrees in their warehouse for like a week before the other person realizes like, oh my God, this should be in a refrigerator.

1:59:02SpeakerSo then you have like a kilo or two of product that essentially like almost got spoiled. And, you know, you have to take that hit essentially and decide, well, do we pull back the product and maybe discount it? Do we just not release it at all? And, Aaron Ward, You know, have to put it in maybe edibles or something like that. But once it hits a certain level, like once it gets past distribution, you can't pull it back always.

1:59:29SpeakerSo you either have to sell it or destroy it. So make some decision making very difficult.

1:59:38BubblemanIt's definitely not easy the way we get kind of pushed into these corners. But I remember the old corners with the gun in the face, the 10 years, the shoot your dog, the take your kids. And that was definitely worse. Like this sucks. And we can moan and whine and bitch about it. But it's not as bad as what it was just like 10 plus years ago or whatever.

1:59:58BubblemanAnd it's still happening to a degree, of course, but at least we have pathways. And we're kind of having this conversation in the room right now where people are saying, wow, lots of people are being kept from the business. It's like lots of people are kept from every business. Are you kidding me? Just because you grew weed and you paid some of your bills does not give you the entitlement to automatically be involved in a business that is a business.

2:00:20BubblemanIt still involves having to do all the right moves. It's like anyone can play to a degree, but you have people saying, oh, I'm going to need hundreds of thousands of dollars if I want to get a license. I would need millions of dollars if I wanted to build houses and flip them. I don't have the skill. I don't have the money. So I avoid the business.

2:00:38BubblemanDoesn't mean I don't want to be a part of it. I'd love to be a part of that business. Are they keeping me out of that business because I'm not in that business? Because I don't have millions of dollars to buy homes and flip them on the... And so I'm kind of have a hard time with that conversation where it's like, At what point do we let every single person be a part of this business when it's not like that for any other business in the world?

2:01:00BubblemanYou either find your way or you don't.

2:01:03SpeakerI think the big difference, though, is you don't have the same financial tools that other businesses do in the quote unquote mainstream society. Like if I, you know, I have a college education or whatever, if I had experience and had worked under someone, I could go out and get a loan to start a construction company. Seriously, you could go and get a million dollars from a bank as a normal person.

2:01:28BubblemanAnd you can do it as a cannabis person. Tons of people have done it. Like in my country, we raised hundreds of millions, billions of dollars. You could have moved to Canada and started your legal cannabis business. You live in North America. You could have easily come to Canada. You could have easily...

2:01:44SpeakerI want to go to Canada though when California alone is bigger than

2:01:47BubblemanBecause they're limiting you. You just said they're not giving you the ability that you can go and take a loan. So then you shift. You want to be in this business? Well, lots of people have done it. Believe it or not, you're sitting next to a girl who literally up and moved to a complete country and then married you. I mean, like...

2:02:07SpeakerIt's true. No, but I mean, I feel like there are some obstacles, like as a legal business, you know, like, I don't know, get a, or like have a bank account, you know, like legal businesses here have a hard time having just a bank account, like a bank that accepts like a legal cannabis business.

2:02:23Collin PalmerYeah, totally. Yeah, we, I have the same problems you all have in, you know, I'm in, I'm on the East Coast in a regulated market and it's just, it's nearly impossible in terms of how, where, where does your money come from? Where does it go? And. I agree, but I also agree with Marcus. You got to go where your opportunities are and try to forge a pathway forward.

2:02:45Collin PalmerAnd I firmly believe what Marcus believes. You got to find your path.

2:02:51BubblemanI didn't have millions of dollars. I didn't. I didn't invest millions of dollars to start this company. I did it with knowledge and I connected with people. And I just you know, it's just like, of course, I want everyone to have the ability to do all the things that they want to do. But I hear a lot of people complaining that they're Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:03:08BubblemanI'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today.

2:03:36Collin PalmerAnd I, you know, Marcus, the music industry is kind of like that, you know, because it's all about your hands. It's about your knowledge. It's about what you put into the thing that you put out. And I think that what you're illustrating is kind of just that is your knowledge and your passion, really, more importantly, is what brought you to where you are. And I share that same that same vision with you, man.

2:04:00Collin PalmerI think it's only about, you know. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here.

2:04:09BubblemanI'm so happy to be here.

2:04:31BubblemanYou know, I definitely support people in their journey. I have a ton of people asking me all the time, how do I break into this industry? How do I get into the cannabis industry? And I'm always like, man, I don't know, like, what's your passion? Like to me, cannabis is everything. If you're a scientist, you can get into the cannabis industry. If you're, you know, like a cell biologist or a tissue culture or, you know, whatever it is, if you're a if you're a security guy.

2:04:55BubblemanThank you so much for joining us today. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here.

2:05:24BubblemanThese were jobs that were not available like 20 years ago in Canada. They just didn't exist. And so the fact that kids are excited to go back to university, these sciences, because they see positions are going to be opened up for them and that they can, you know, like, wow, this is opening up. I'm going to go get my degree. I'm going to come out and I'm going to be a part of this industry.

2:05:42BubblemanLike, I think all of that is is amazing. But I definitely have a hard time with people. People in Canada for the longest time were complaining about the micro grow. Oh, you got to have a million dollars. You got to have a million dollars. And then some woman did it with like, I don't know, like $50,000. And she was like, no, it can be done. It can be done.

2:05:59BubblemanLike, trust me, it's just, just instead of complaining that it can't be done and creating problems for the solutions, flip the script and create solutions for the problems because it can be done.

2:06:12SpeakerAbsolutely agree. Yeah, and I do too. And then although, you know, in California and kind of across the United States for that matter, you know, for legal cannabis markets, odds have, you know, with regulation been put in place that make it difficult for small scale... ...responded groups to, you know... And we've been able to find back against the small guy. There's also tremendous advantage, you know, from a lot of what we're seeing.

2:06:47SpeakerAnd, you know, with the banks, you know, banks is a whole definitely issue. You know, we've over the last 11, 10 years, you know, we definitely have like 25 bank accounts shut down. And so it's been a constant kind of process to kind of roll through and find and, you know, work through this real complicated space. But, you know, I mean, that's kind of the journey, you know, and, and, you know, if you have the passion, you'll find a way.

2:07:14SpeakerAnd so, you know, I do agree with, you know, the complaint or problem, you know, creating problems out of existing problems or, you know, just, yeah, to find a way, it's like passion will find a way. And yeah.

2:07:33Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's not that everyone's unhappy. They're just trying to work towards a better system because the system's oppressive and it makes it incredibly difficult for people to enter the system. But big up to the people that can forge the way and make the changes.

2:07:49Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know. I mean, maybe I'm thinking about this in a different way. I mean, here in the United States, you know, if you go to Indeed.com and you put cannabis extraction, You get a never ending list of jobs in just about every state that has cannabis programs. They need people, cannabis extraction, cannabis dispensaries. You can go to these just job sites just to, you know, we were recently looking to hire somebody and we were thinking about having like a full time person to run our HPLC.

2:08:32Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so we looked and my God, there had to be 15 other places looking for exactly the person that we were looking for. We want someone that's, you know, kind of analytically trained. It didn't necessarily need to have a college degree because we were paying them by the hour, but we wanted them to basically take ownership over the HPLC and run our analytical in-house analytical lab. And I don't know, man, it seems like there's a lot of jobs out there right now for people who are looking for people to get into the industry.

2:09:08Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I don't know what they're talking about. I mean, a lot of entry level jobs are out there.

2:09:15BubblemanI think it's a lot of people at their computers trying to wanting to be a part of things, but just not knowing how to execute. And sometimes it's easier to just, you know, I mean, listen, we're all having difficulties. This isn't the easiest thing. We're in a global pandemic. We're all trying to deal with these businesses. We're involved in something that's never happened before in the world.

2:09:34BubblemanCannabis has never We've gone from 100 plus years federally illegal to federally legal. You guys down in the States are probably going to pop federal here in the next two to five years. It's almost inevitable. We hope so. We hope so. It's got to happen, man. It's got to happen. Now, will it happen the way we want it to happen? Probably not. It'll probably be scary. It'll probably be handed over to big business and pharma and all these trap labs that think they're, you know, GP labs and All of these are BMP labs, but they aren't.

2:10:04BubblemanThey're like bare arms, not wearing the proper gear. Those labs are going to go to the wayside, and you're going to see the labs open up with much more regulations. And it's a bit scary, but at the same time, I run a lab like that. And you know what? If I have to jump through certain hoops to be a part of this industry, damn straight, I'm going to jump through them.

2:10:25SpeakerYeah. And one other thing I'd like to add to that, too, is, you know, because I feel like since over the last 25 years, you know, in California with a medical program in place, you know, it was in this time, you know, that was probably one of, in my opinion, one of the most unique times of an industry, of an emerging industry that will ever, ever take place.

2:10:49SpeakerIf there will ever be anything quite like it, but if you had $5,000 and some gleam in your eye and passion for the plant, you could kind of start up, set up a garage, grow, have 10 lights, plus do whatever and be able to make a living and make a career at the time out of working with this plant. And so I feel like the stakes with regulation kicking in, You know, kind of have made it as such that, you know, the barrier of entry is absolutely like greatly more expensive to get in because of all the reality of compliance and regulation, all the things.

2:11:28SpeakerBut, you know, that was the most, I feel like that was the most unfettered capitalism, like free market that we could have ever been part of, you know, just working with this plant at a time before legalization. And so I feel like that's where so many people kind of, you know, have been cut out because they, you know, were once an owner operator of a business and now, you know, kind of grumpy and jaded, you know, because they didn't, you know, necessarily do their diligence to stack money and, you know, like not take the, you know, outrageous vacations all over the world all the time, you know, because for those that saw that time as a time of proving ground to like work out the, you know, the, the, the, You know, proof of concept and the ability to sustain and not just break even each row or each kind of round, but to eventually stack over time to the point where they could get into a position where they could help sell funds, you know, kind of a project to kind of become licensed.

2:12:27SpeakerBut due to the fact that, you know, kind of that didn't happen, you know, I feel like a lot of people kind of they see like they got cut out, but You know, and in a bit of a way they did, you know, because the barrier of entry and financial investments kind of went so much greater. But, but that was also, you know, everybody else has to recognize that in themselves that, you know, there was, there was, that was the time, you know, and once legalization's here, it's not, I mean, all that works to get ready for this moment.

2:12:58BubblemanThere's also the fact that a lot of these people were just so stoked on selling four and five and $6,000 pounds and $80 eights under the guise of medical, where it's like the vacations and the cars and all of the things that these people gained through this prohibition pricing was like, you know, how many of them want to sell $80 eights instead of like, you know, give those eights away or sell them for 10 or 15?

2:13:25BubblemanIt turns into that, too. There was like, you know, a lot of people now are like, fuck cannabis. It's like, well, yeah, I guess you're not getting your four or five thousand US dollars a pound anymore. I could see where you fuck the legal cannabis business because the illegal cannabis business was so good to you. Unfortunately, instead of just people having shitty jobs that weren't paying them enough, it actually involved locking up hundreds of thousands of people around the world.

2:13:48BubblemanAnd so I got to lean back into the new being still what I came from. What's that, Josh?

2:13:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm just saying, you can't say it was good at 4,000, but then it was not good since you were getting a gun to your head. I think it's just evolving now, and it's really important for us to stay calm and try and help everyone that wants to enter, you know, enter, which is what we're doing. We're showing people different levels of entry happening right now. There's different levels of play happening.

2:14:17Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd, you know, let's try and keep cannabis sacred and try and keep a soul in cannabis and move forward. I think Alice had something to say.

2:14:25SpeakerAnd also, I just wanted to say that, you know, Marcus, what you're talking about is representative to the experience that you're having and the experience that, you know, maybe your friends are having. So you're really speaking for yourself. You're speaking for what's happening. Always. You know, a lot of it can't necessarily transfer to a cultivator and the experiences that we've had in the industry working our asses off to try to be a part of it, you know, or recognizing maybe the reality that this is a system that because Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:15:34SpeakerSo there's a lot going on here and I just wanted to mention that each one of us have our own individual experiences in the industry. So because it's evolving, everything is going to come to the table all at once and that's what's happening right now. That is, I mean, continuing what Kelly was saying, that it's actually about privilege. I mean, I can talk through my own experience as you could talk through your own, Marcus.

2:16:06SpeakerLike in Brazil, as I told before here, I'm a privileged white girl, right? So I have the standpoint, the view from a privileged white girl in Brazil. Here, In the United States, it's totally different. So I managed to travel in between these two places in the world, like how I see myself and how I recognize myself. And being able to be part of a cannabis industry, at least in Brazil, I don't see a possibility for everyone.

2:16:33SpeakerI don't see something that would be almost meritocratical. How do you say that? Meritocracy? Yeah, meritocracy. Like, I don't see it like that. I see it as something that would totally do with privilege. All the business owners here, at least that I see here in California, they're white. I don't see black people. I don't see Latinos. I don't see people that are from Mexico. So I feel like, yeah, it's not for every, it's not every person that has a place in this business, honestly.

2:17:05BubblemanThat's like every business. It's true. 100%.

2:17:09SpeakerEvery business. But there's a difference between the cannabis business and every other business in the world. We live in a prohibitionist society. And this business that we have nowadays has a historical reparation to take care of. Different than other businesses. Like people in the last like 50, 60 years, people have been massive incarcerated all over the world through like a drug policy. And where I agree with you is that with regulations, things are safer.

2:17:45SpeakerThis is where I agree. There are good sides and bad sides too. Not everyone can be part of it, but at the same time, look safer. There's less criminality. So I just wanted to shine a light on this because it's important for us to recognize our own privileges and understand that, yeah, I mean, for me, I'm finding my place here in the United States too, but I feel that if I was like a black girl, that would be totally different and that would be way harder.

2:18:16SpeakerIt would be way harder to find opportunities and possibilities.

2:18:23BubblemanIf you want to have a ton of great conversations about this very conversation, and Dr. Allison mentioned it at the start of the show, this is happening on Clubhouse like every day, every minute, huge groups of people talking about this, both from From the minority perspective, from the privileged perspective, both in the room simultaneously, and it's really, really great conversation to be a part of. And it's, it's of course true.

2:18:51BubblemanAnd it's not just the cannabis business, believe it or not, it's happening in Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:19:25BubblemanYou know, all the people can listen to Hash Church and hopefully, you know, enjoy the conversation and have some disagreeance and have some agreeance. To me, some of the best Hash Churches is when it gets a little rocky and we have a little, we get into the core subjects where there's really some nerves being poked. And I'll tell you, when we started talking about this, the chat room started going off on YouTube.

2:19:48BubblemanSo it's like, and sometimes it goes pretty slow. And yeah, people want to have these difficult conversations and, you know, And there's learning from them. I have these conversations so I can personally learn from them, so I can shift my perspective, so I can help become a better person, basically.

2:20:06Etienne FontanWell, I mean, look, I'm a legacy operator. I'm also a man of white privilege, but I used my white privilege to further the issue as well as advance the issue because I knew my friends of color were not able to do so. So what did I do? I hired my friends of color. All different color creeds, every spectrum of the rainbow. We became a support network for many trans employees going each direction.

2:20:36Etienne FontanAnd it's been an absolutely wonderful, embracing experience. But, you know, early on we were activists. We were all expecting to get arrested every single day. It wasn't until the laws changed that, you know, So yeah, I understand my white privilege is there. So what do I do? I mentor many people for free because I want them to learn and give the opportunities and get the opportunities that no, they no longer have to trailblaze for.

2:21:09Etienne FontanThere's a whole bunch of shortcuts. We, as we say, we built the airplane while flying it. So you make a lot of mistakes, you build extra wings, you do all kinds of stupid shit because again, early on we hired activists because again, any day we're all expecting to go to jail. So now 20 years down the line that hasn't happened. So we continue to send the elevator down through education, through mentoring, I contribute to Supernova Women, which is education as well as uplifting women of color in our community.

2:21:44Etienne FontanAnd I mentor various people across various spectrums because I feel it's a duty as operators for us Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here.

2:22:20Etienne FontanBe what we want the world to be. We were told 30 years ago it was never going to happen in our lifetimes, but here we are. Here we are doing what we're doing, and that law has changed. Is it perfect? No. We still have to work on change. Here in California, we had to fight for SB 34 to get the ability to still give away free cannabis to people of low income.

2:22:44Etienne FontanOkay. And that was hard to get support around and to rally people around because again, people become complacent on business. So these are valid and real discussions that should be had because we need diversity. We need to not only have equality, but we have to have equity. For those that were most hurt, we need black, brown, color people, veterans of all that have been hurt by this drug war to get a chance to get an equal footing because we're losing it fast to these huge corporations coming out of Canada and these conglomerates building in the United States that if we don't do something soon, there's going to be no opportunity because it's just going to be 7-Elevens and Walmarts, you know what I'm saying, of cannabis per se as opposed to mom and pop operators.

2:23:31Etienne FontanThat's kind of a niche of where we are and where we've had to be. We had to risk our freedoms to change law for dispensaries. But sooner or later, dispensaries are going to be a thing of history. You're going to be able to go to your Costco and get your low, mid, and high grade. And there'll be specialty shops and things needed for medical. But I'll be honest and say, we had our time.

2:23:53Etienne FontanWe had our space. But change is coming. And we're now going to be so normalized that we're going to be pushed out of existence because we're no longer pushing the envelope. We're no longer risking ourselves. We're accepted. We've changed the conversation forever. So I'm fine with being obsolete because I know we've changed it forever. That's for a long way.

2:24:18Dr Mark ScialdoneLarge Costco size containers, huh?

2:24:23Etienne FontanI mean, they'll still be craft. It's like, look, Humboldt and Mendocino will be just like Napa. They'll have their craft places, but it's just going to become like that. There'll be mail order will be normalized here eventually in America. And there'll be just farms large enough to support mail order because they've got a unique, amazing genetic. They grow in an amazing way, et cetera, et cetera. It's just, it's going to become a normal commodity as much.

2:24:53Etienne FontanWhat it'll be. And you'll become more skeptical of going to Costco for your, you know, your big Costco. But maybe they'll have amazing weed back, you know, then. I don't know. The quality is getting better. But, you know, the larger it gets, it doesn't mean the better it gets. So that's why we've always felt back on craft and why. Napa Valley is so prominent still to this day and millions of people come through a year because there's small wineries that do nothing but mail order or sell directly right out of their winery.

2:25:24Etienne FontanThey don't need to sell to the large box stores. Whereas people are scaling up to be in the box stores right now. People are scaling up for interstate commerce. Right now. So what does that make the mom and pop store when you've got these huge conglomerates that can literally buy up your entire state's dispensaries just like that?

2:25:45Collin PalmerWell, so, you know, this brings up a good question. The thing I wanted to just talk about is the idea of standardizing cannabis, because that's really what we're talking about in terms of scaling. And Mark's touched on this. Dr. Mark, you've touched on this a bunch where CGMP is going to be the thing. And You know, but I think we're a long ways away from this. And I'd love to hear Sam's thoughts on, you know, the genetic aspect of this, because if they're you know, when this gets federal United States, it's going to be a whole new world of federal.

2:26:14Collin PalmerThey're going to have varietals that are going to need to be certified. It's going to be specific ways you're going to have to grow it. They're going to you know, there's a lot of checks and balances that I foresee us having to to kind of get Thank you for joining us today.

2:26:44Collin PalmerAaron Wiggins, T-Mobile, T-Mobile, T-Mobile, T-Mobile, T-Mobile,

2:27:07Collin PalmerAaron Weiss, You know, rules that are going to be put in place and regulations. And I think that's where it's going to start separating, like Marcus has been saying, the individuals that really understand the processes and the intricacies and the steps in between the steps versus those who are, you know, Just they, you know, it's really difficult. It's going to be hard. So I'd love to hear Mark's thoughts on this and ATN, like you sounds like you've already been thinking a lot about this, you know, as I have, I've been kind of thinking about, oh my gosh, you know, I've been here for two decades, been, you know, over two decades working with this plant.

2:27:44Collin PalmerWhat does that mean for us in, you know, in the next decade, you know?

2:27:51Etienne FontanI see dispensaries becoming less and less. Once normalization happens, why can't, I mean, right now in New York, bodegas are saying, hey, if they can sell cigarettes and alcohol, why can't they sell cannabis as well?

2:28:08Collin PalmerYou're totally right.

2:28:09Etienne Fontansomebody is going to test that water in one of these states because they're all different laboratories and somebody's going to say yeah why not and then it becomes normally and accepted so i i i wish look i wish i could say we'll be around forever but i think Aaron Weissman, Chief Executive Officer, U.S. Bank of America Bank of America Bank of America Bank of America

2:28:44Etienne FontanJust like alcohol and tobacco, I can go down to my local 7-Eleven and pick up some Jack Herrera 20-pack or whatever. As frightening as that thought may be, why can't that be an accepted normalization? We dreamed, oh, there would one day be places you could go and buy pot, but not only one kind of pot, but different kinds of pot. And we used to laugh and go, ha, ha, ha.

2:29:08Etienne FontanWell, it happened. Thank you so much for joining us today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

2:29:38Etienne FontanThat are going to do amazing things en masse that are going to be able to challenge the market at ways that we've never seen before. We're not there yet, but I don't think we're a decade away from being there.

2:29:56SpeakerWe're already seeing CBD products being sold in convenience stores. What's going to happen across Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:30:33SpeakerIt will first pass some sort of federal interstate medical, and then they'll pass some sort of federal interstate recreational. So when they change THC cannabinoids from Schedule 1 to either Schedule 2 or preferably Schedule 3 or off the scheduling, but when they reschedule it, it'll probably open up for the FDA to start regulating any company that wants to do interstate commerce. That interstate commerce means that, hey, now I can sell to any state, any consumer.

2:31:08SpeakerNow I can ship to the East Coast as many people may have been doing in the traditional market. But in order to get that interstate commerce license, you're going to have to be able to meet the FDA's rules and requirements about And that kind of depends on how they're going to regulate it. If it goes schedule two, it's going to have to be produced in essentially a pharmaceutical facility.

2:31:33SpeakerIf it's schedule three, we hopefully will be able to have food grade facilities. Here in Canada, it's a GPP facility. Which is very similar to a food grade facility, just very heavily regulated on all the documentation that we have for being able to sterilize every surface and clean every piece of equipment. We have to have every SOP, PCP, which is a preventive control plan, and a list of a dozen other documents on every piece of equipment.

2:32:06SpeakerThe same thing is going to happen when the FDA gets involved in the states and when any other country starts regulating interprovincial or interstate sales. So people who previously were blasting in their backyard shed probably won't be able to because they'll have to be able to prove that they can clean that building. So if you have a barn, maybe you can renovate that barn to a food grade facility.

2:32:35SpeakerBut you're going to have to be able to build it in a way that you can actually show to the regulators that it can be sterilized in order to minimize the risk of contamination. So there will be pathways.

2:32:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineGo ahead.

2:32:52SpeakerThere will be pathways. It's just going to be something that the first time that it's done is always the most difficult. And as the licenses open up, I think everyone's going to be able to learn from everyone else and be able to see that, yes, just like the wine industry, the hops industry, there are ways that we can cultivate cannabis, not only on the small acreage, couple hundred plant scale, but all the way up to the hectare scales and do it in a sustainable fashion.

2:33:25Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI just wanted to make sure that, you know, it doesn't happen with, you know, with cannabis. So what happened to tobacco? You know, you take this sacred plant that every person grew that was good for the earth that was used during ceremony. And then you just, what? We regulate it. What? Everyone's growing it. What? It's at all the stores. What? It has no life. What? It creates cancer.

2:33:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo I think that in order for us to keep our consciousness as we move forward, let's just make sure that cannabis doesn't become pharma to table. And then it keeps farm to table. And that maybe if it does go big and it does go box store and it does go all that way, that's fine. But it's going to be back to the micro brew or the micro weed or the farmer's market to where someone that wants to stay with the intention and still provide something clean and Thank you for joining us today.

2:34:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo as we move forward with this legalization, let's keep that space open for, you know, for the small scale cultivator to be able to continue to uphold like the quality, because no matter what, when you put it into a box, you know, and it may be inevitable.

2:34:58SpeakerAnd let's be so bold, let's be so bold to say let's hold...

2:35:07SpeakerI hear a lot about like, okay, these signed ledgers and we've got our lawyers on it. And this is a, this is a conscious awakening experience. Thank you so much.

2:35:37SpeakerAll of that rhetoric, that education, that energy forward that we don't want to desacred the plant in the way that tobacco was, like Josh was just saying. It's a sketchy place.

2:35:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd as a cannabis community, as we move forward internationally, we're also opening doorways for other psychedelic plant medicine. And we don't want psychedelic plant medicine to also fall in the hands of regulation and into the hands That goes away from the origins of the magic of what it is.

2:36:11SpeakerAnd I think that that's awesome. Like we, the medicine makers of cannabis, do have an incredible responsibility of what is going to happen with plant medicine in the future. Like Josh was just saying, we are holding the door open to many plant medicines in the future and what's going to happen to these conscious raising plants. They've helped us so much in humanity gain traction on an awakening of different levels.

2:36:42SpeakerAnd here we are at another one. And I think that we need to, you know, carry that voice of the spirituality of this plant as well. That's all.

2:36:54Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd the sacred commerce.

2:36:55Collin PalmerThat's totally amazing and so right on. That dialogue has to be woven into the fabric of where this is headed. And I get nervous that it's being left behind. And let's face it,

2:37:08Collin PalmerBrian, Chris Bennett. Brian, Chris Bennett.

2:37:26Collin PalmerThat allows it to really resonate in terms of its flavor profile, the timing in which they're dry curing it, and how it's trimmed, and when it's trimmed, and all the steps in the process. And that's a deep connection that goes beyond any SOP, beyond any type of title, any paycheck, and anything that goes along with any of the things that we call an industry, if you will.

2:37:50Collin PalmerIt has nothing to do with an industry. An industry is something that we're as humans trying to better understand to call it something. And let's just face it, guys, it's passion that is the cornerstone of all of this. It's not a paycheck. It's not an industry.

2:38:07SpeakerThe industry is a human minded creation that's ever evolving and changing because humans are ever evolving and changing in this weird mind that we create on what standards are at one particular time. But this plant is constant. It's here for us. Yes, we are, of course, interacting with it. We are, of course, changing maybe its frequency level, but this is a plant that's been here, you know, for an incredibly long time, all the way to where we have an endocannabinoid system that, you know, there needs to be some kind of a respect in that also.

2:38:53Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThere's a question.

2:38:57BubblemanYeah, a question from Sasa Serban if you wanted to quickly answer that one, Dragonfly.

2:39:02SpeakerYeah, we definitely do grow some wormwood and we get Artemisia down at the lake in the area that we live in. It's sort of down at lake level. We can find it wild crafted and we definitely work with it on different levels for parasitical cleanses and stuff. That's all.

2:39:27BubblemanThank you, I'm sure they appreciated it. Go ahead.

2:39:30SpeakerI would love to jump in kind of just on this thought too, you know, I mean, and I did mention kind of a bit of this last week, I believe, but, you know, kind of, it's fascinating that, you You know, with prohibition ending and all the money coming in and all everybody trying to come and find their stake in this new industry, you know, it's fascinating and how different it is from alcohol because, you know, with alcohol, you know, when prohibition ended, you know, there was the development of the big You know, kind of, you know, however many decades and decades later that the craft pure and the craft industry, spirit industry really started thriving, you know, but with cannabis, you know, there's, you know, with prohibition ending, there's this effort for corporate coming in consolidation to occur.

2:40:17SpeakerAll right. Thank you so much, everyone.

2:40:37SpeakerSo much of your own time and passion, you know, like appreciating it and coming to respect it, you know, in all the different lessons the plant will teach us in cultivation and hash making. And so the built up like tribal knowledge from the culture and from the craft industry is something that, you know, you can't just learn, you know, and and And so you see kind of simultaneously with, you know, everybody going licensed and kind of, you know, finding their way in this new space.

2:41:05SpeakerYou know, there's a lot of fear that it's going to be like alcohol and there's just going to consolidate a few brands and all this, but, you know, I, you know, just, just kind of pointing out from the testing side of things, it's like, you know, I've seen some of the, the most The largest and most catastrophic fails happen from a lot of the biggest money people coming in just recklessly thinking they're just going to come take over the plant and take over the industry, but they put some in their place.

2:41:36SpeakerAnd so many of the people that are growing around ag lands, it's all kind of You know, and, and, and in this same wild, all the farmers in Northern California and around areas that have preserved the craft and the integrity of this plant and not poison their land and poison the environment, there are advantages in this market where there's, I mean, everybody's looking for clean, abundant quality material to make into products and, and jar up and to do all the things.

2:42:02SpeakerBut, but for what it's worth, it's a, it's a unicorn, you know, the amount of material that's out in the market. Chris Brown, You know that's being cultivated in these areas that are dirty is is greatly exceeds the clean supply and so. Chris Brown, You know I mean I hope it's not naive to think, but I feel like ultimately you know it's like. Chris Brown, You know, because everybody wants to you know it's like it's like stay in your lane and in your zone and don't get like freaked out by like the fact that there's these.

2:42:45BubblemanYou're breaking up, pal.

2:42:49SpeakerTake over this plant, have the knowledge, you know, that you do in my, you know, but, but I, I'm seeing, oh, not an easy plant to learn unless you really respect it. And And I'm just, yeah, just, just wanted to make the point that, you know, I think the plant's intelligence is going to serve us. And, and for those that have been in services plant all their life, there's, I feel deeply that there's the plant's got your back, you know, as long as you just keep your passion and find your way and don't get freaked out about the corporate agendas and all this, because it's not like they're figuring out any quicker.

2:43:22SpeakerAnd if anything, their levels of face plant are that much, such a greater magnitude that, you know, are crippling in a lot of, in so many of the cases. And so, yeah, I just got a lot of trust and faith that the plant's going to have our back and that the craft farmers and the craft artisan producers are going to find their way as long as they keep their passion and push forward.

2:43:43BubblemanSeems like at least here in British Columbia, more and more happening. I see people that I know that are getting their, you know, micro licenses. I saw Patrick, one of our glass blowers who got his license recently, and he was just blowing glass one day and the next year he was announcing that he was building out his facility and that he got his license. And I was just so happy to see that.

2:44:03BubblemanI know the great gardeners working on the same thing with Kirk Tussaud. And it seems like there are people who Thank you so much for joining us.

2:44:27BubblemanFrom a processing standpoint, we're very excited to, you know, find more and more relationships with craft growers because they grow exceptional quality cannabis. They get their terpenes up there a little higher than some of the terpene contents we're seeing out of the large licensed production facilities. And it's We're excited to see all these great growers that we've known for decades slowly making that switch. And it's not an easy switch.

2:44:55BubblemanI know that Kelly and Josh mentioned it earlier. Is it an industry we want to be a part of in that particular? It's very much a fence sitting position.

2:45:07BubblemanBut it's very much the human nature to consistently divide. And if you just take the fence away, you realize you're actually just in a field of grass and it's kind of green over there and it's kind of green over there. And you have a lot more motion to move and you can tap into a lot more people if you just take that fence down and just just be involved.

2:45:30SpeakerMark. Isn't it true that in Canada right now there's a surplus of one million pounds on the shelf of the producers?

2:45:41BubblemanIt's definitely possible if you're producing sub-quality cannabis and you're trying to race to the bottom and produce cannabis that has, you know, like less than a percentage of terpenes and it's just not very exciting in flavor. Not to mention if it sits in your vault for a year and you lose that 0.3%, Seven percent terpenes that you actually had there. And now it's basically distillate sitting on a plant, you know, diluted distillate on a on a plant matter.

2:46:07BubblemanBut, you know, that that doesn't surprise me. It's kind of like there's always been a surplus of swag, you know.

2:46:14SpeakerAlso, that the more and more of the Canadian total that's produced under licenses is grown outdoors now.

2:46:27BubblemanYeah, that's true too. A couple of key companies just got some big outdoor licenses just a couple of years ago. And that really, you know, you saw 10 acres here and five acres there. And then all of a sudden 48 North did 77 acres, which was unbelievable. I talked to the kid who planted all those plants. He wasn't even 30 years old. He popped like 228,000 seedlings.

2:46:49BubblemanAnd, and like, I just had to give, and he was like, you know, and I walked through the field and some of it didn't look that good. And some of it did look good. And of course people were, you know, slamming all over them. I actually, you know, it was one of the things because Josh and Kelly aren't in the industry. And when I went to visit that facility, instead of like, Taking a bunch of pictures and blasting them on the internet, I thought, I'll try to help this company.

2:47:10BubblemanThere's a few key things. And I hooked them up with Sean from Los Gardens. And I was like, Sean is like DEM Pure certified. He's willing to help. He lives less than an hour away. Maybe this is a way to sort of build a bridge and help a company rather than like kind of pour gas on it, light it, and then sit there and enjoy it while it burns down to the ground.

2:47:32BubblemanSo I just sort of thought like well why don't we just kind of help the company and it's easy to be a critic but it's kind of like I think it's better to help and to kind of like get that information that Josh and Kelly are sitting on and I always am begging them try to figure out a way to get involved within this system because the system really needs you and the change that you're doing outside of the system is incredible but the change that you could do within the system system systematically like That is, to me, I think it would be substantial.

2:48:03BubblemanAnd that's kind of what I'm trying to do myself.

2:48:06SpeakerThank you. That's awesome. And I think I just wanted to be a little bit more accurate with language is that we're here to help the plant. We're not necessarily here to help the system. So we're going to continue to be a voice for the plant. We're going to continue to educate. We're not really interested necessarily in educating or helping out the system because it's ever changing. Us entering in the system is we're entering in the system with, just like you said, bits and pieces of education.

2:48:42SpeakerAnd as far as like burning down another facility that's growing, the real question is, is If we're helping the plant and not the system of course we would come in and educate that huge massive organization or LP or whatever you want to call it that's really having a wrongful relationship with this plant having a hard time cultivating it this is where we can step in and say oh well our true alliance I love that point.

2:49:15SpeakerThank you.

2:49:27Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then that's why I value the show, Marcus. And again, just thank you for putting this on because it's these conversations, you know, there's a little bit of everything happening. So we get to all see what's happening. And I like that there's people in different areas of the world and different areas so that we get to share our experience. And I consider it the richness of the show.

2:49:46Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo I thank you for this conversation.

2:49:48SpeakerAnd our experience with the plant is awesome because with Dem Pure and what Josh and I do is we're having a global experience with the plant. We can't be caught in one US system, one Canadian system, one Australian system, one Brazilian system. We have to incorporate all of what humanity is going through and still continue the education forward and the information dedicated to the plant because the systems, like I said, are ever changing.

2:50:21SpeakerSo that's our focus.

2:50:23BubblemanVery well said and I appreciate your perspective absolutely and it is definitely a language thing for sure I just uh you know I and you are helping within the system because the people you're helping are choosing to work within that system and they're bringing some of that information to the system and it's uh it is what it is you know um I just love cannabis I want it to be successful regardless of I want my mother to be able to buy her medicine online the way she prefers to You know, she doesn't want to go to dispensaries.

2:50:54BubblemanShe doesn't want to go to the gray market. She likes to just go to a company that she can look up and see the people that work there and know that it's getting tested and all of these things. And there are millions of people like her. And without that particular system, they would be left out in the cold. And there's a there's an enormous amount of systems, you know, in that sense.

2:51:14BubblemanIt's not just a Canadian and a Brazilian. It's just all of these platforms that the plant is finding itself in. It's very, you know, it used to be in a prohibition platform and believe it or not, we all supported that system, whether we like to admit it or not, it was the system we worked within. It was the prohibition system. It was the system we had to work within.

2:51:35BubblemanAnd I'm certain it's the system that allowed cannabis to be sold for five and six and 7,000 US dollars a pound in places like Manhattan and Los Angeles. You know, that was the system. And now, It's not kind of the system anymore and it's sort of changing and there are growing pains and some people are feeling a little like the grounds moving out from under them kind of like the home dealer felt when the dispensaries came out you know the bc compassion club and all of these spots had no idea they were going to absolutely decimate the home dealer the mom and pop dealers that were just sitting at home paying their mortgage by selling eights Thank you for joining us.

2:52:33BubblemanThat dried up for them. So there goes another, you know, one system comes into place, another system dries up and it just keeps going and going and going. And all we can do is try and stay conscious and try and make sure that we, you know, direct this in some form or another that is, you know, like Kelly and Josh are saying, like plant based for the for the plant.

2:52:54Etienne FontanActually, they showed up in our lounge and would sell it in our smoking lounge. So, you know, you'd be amazed, dog, you know. They're still resourceful. The traditional market remains traditionally unique and we'll always find ways to survive no matter what happens, no matter what transpired. I mean, look, 80% of the regulated market prior to 64 disappeared. You know, and is now back in the traditional market.

2:53:24Etienne FontanSo the traditional market is way bigger than the legal market hands down. And that's not changing anytime soon.

2:53:35Dr Mark ScialdoneSo being a scientist, I try to understand systems right in general. And what I can tell you is that, yeah, systems are a manmade construct, but that they can And so like, humans can steer a system. So we can steer a system because we are the system. If you think about it, like, yeah, so like, people have asked us before, you know, the cannabis industry, you know, industry, I always thought of, like, as a kid is like, You know the industrial revolution like smokestacks and factories and workers and unions that's that's industry the cannabis industry is really just an illusion if you think about it because all it is is we're okay like Colin said yeah we're attracted to the plant and like our passion for the plant gets pulled through in these products and I think at some point like Marcus made Andrew Bermudez, Some hash right and he's like man, this is really good and his friends all got around and it's like that's really, really good hash.

2:54:50Dr Mark ScialdoneAndrew Bermudez, Boy wouldn't it be great to someday produce this and bring this to the masses, and the thing we were talking about CGMP so just so everyone knows, GMP stands for good manufacturing. Thank you for joining us today.

2:55:25Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so when I think of CGMP, and we think of it in the industry, in the industry, there you go again, the people who work in this business as being something related to quality and quality control and safety. But what I can tell you is that the owners, the people who own these businesses, the shareholders, what they think of when they think about CGMP is risk management, right?

2:55:53Dr Mark ScialdoneSo if they're going to be producing a product, And they're going to be producing X kilograms of that product. And that's a lot of money and a lot of labor and a lot of electricity and a huge investment going into making this product. What they want to run, what they don't want to run the risk of is that product All fouling or that product not meeting a labor requirement or for some reason that product not being able to deliver the intended value that it was.

2:56:25Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the people who own these businesses who are putting the investment into good manufacturing practices are doing so for the management of risk. And really, when we get Marcus's product someday imported into the United States, Or perhaps maybe the better production model would be Marcus's business licenses that production process and Mike and his crew come down to various operations that are licensed producers in the United States to produce that spec bubble hash in Marcus's process.

2:57:07Dr Mark ScialdoneSo ultimately, when that's made in a CGMP process, All of the quality control that went into developing the process for the release of that product to the Canadian market will be duplicated in the United States market in a way, again, where it's kind of like, it's interesting because Mike West was talking about the parallels of hops and in many ways, The alcohol industry is parallel to the cannabis industry in that they're growing a crop, grapes, right?

2:57:44Dr Mark ScialdoneCrop means good genetics, good agricultural practices, no pesticides, very good practices in terms of delivering a safe product meant for human consumption. And then the extraction of that product Thank you so much for joining us.

2:58:25Dr Mark ScialdoneThat the owners of these businesses really need to understand that that's going to be the mechanism in place. And so all of the quality control testing, all of the shelf life testing and everything that needs to go into making any quality product for human consumption is going to go into the so-called industry because that's what's just needed to happen to make sure that the quality of the product This is what was intended for it to be.

2:58:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd as funny as it is, none of that pertains to the food that we eat.

2:59:01Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I'd like to think that it does, though. I mean, again, when we go to the grocery stores and you could look on, say, like a package of I don't know, can I use the word meat on this show without offending people? Of course. It says USDA, right? USDA is the U.S. Department of Agriculture. It says that it's either, what, Prime USDA or Grade A. I mean, there's a certain grading of beef.

2:59:27Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd then what the consumer knows when he's buying a product and bringing it home is that, yes, there is a government agency and that that government agency Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so happy to be here with you. I'm so happy to be here with you. I'm so happy to be here with you.

3:00:05BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

3:00:26Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're definitely realizts about that. I mean, we're not trying to be like, you know.

3:00:32SpeakerIt's the continued education for that is going to transform that big ag so that people can have access to the very basic Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:01:05SpeakerAnd it's like when we speak from one side of it, it's like, oh, okay, well, we have to bring that up to make this conversation more holistic so that those other points are brought up in it because that's just important. We understand everything's in play. Yeah, as far as our future forward and where we want it to be. And I love it, Mark, that you kept saying to mitigate risk.

3:01:31SpeakerAnd that's going to be a really fun.

3:01:46SpeakerI mean, what that means. And then like the human mind to standardize what we see as risk, like is seeing the devil a risk? Oh, okay. Well, let's like back off. Okay. Well, you know, if you're going to be seeing the devil, we got to have a standard on that one. You know, I mean, it's pretty awesome.

3:02:07Dr Mark ScialdoneNo devil, but if you could see Jesus.

3:02:10SpeakerOr Jesus. Or Jesus. All of it, Mohammed, it's all very important to what you're going to be with such adaptogenic, conscious raising of plants. It makes me giggle. Well, let's try and separate this between what would be considered nutraceuticals, herbal supplements, and then what would be considered pharmaceuticals. Because in all likelihood, any government that regulates it is either going to try and treat it as a pharmaceutical drug, or hopefully since they're in the plant forms, more of the herbal supplement forms.

3:02:56SpeakerHerbal supplements can have a range of products, including a range of terpenes and active components. Well, you know, when you start looking at the nutraceuticals generally will have active compounds listed on the label, but in a range and pharmaceuticals generally need really specific dosages within a reproducible, for example, pill or other pharmaceutical delivery API. So you're going to have different regulatory.

3:03:26Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, there's just food. So some people are selling mushrooms right now under the guise of their mushrooms, their edible, their food. Oh, by the way, they also have all these other properties. But and so the manufacturing of those are happening in clean, Andrew Berman, Andy Verzura, Kitchens that you would use to manufacture other food products and the packaging that they're going into and the way that they're, I guess, assessing some type of, um, again, we were talking a little bit about this, Mike, last week with Alec, um, whether or not the cannabis testing labs are going to test for, you know, like the dose of psilocybin say like on mushrooms.

3:04:09Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so will you actually see a label kind of like on your cannabis products where you have so many milligrams of THCA? Will there be so many milligrams of psilocybin in there? And then we were asking the question, and maybe you know this, Mike, what is the percentage of psilocybin on typical, you know, blue cap mushrooms? I was always thinking, again, there was on like the single digit percent, like one to two to three percent.

3:04:36Dr Mark ScialdoneBut do you know what the...

3:04:38SpeakerThis would be a better question for Paul Stamets, but potency ranges in psychedelic mushrooms range anywhere from about less than half of 1% all the way up to currently in the literature, they've described up to about four and a half, 5%. I've seen online people describing up to 6% psilocybin or psilocybin content. But obviously, when you look at psilocybin being a controlled substance, you're only looking at one biosynthesized psychedelic compound within the psychedelic mushrooms.

3:05:22SpeakerWhen we bring those products to market, I certainly hope they have psilocybin content, but also psilocin and biocysteine content and all the other terpenes that we can find in there.

3:05:34Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's honestly what you would imagine that in some way, shape or form like like I would just think like one of the more popular ways of taking. Yeah, I've always done is just capsules because I don't like eating them. I don't like tasting them. You put it in the capsule. So the question is, is like in a seven mil, a 700 milligram capsule, how much? So how much mushroom, ground mushroom, you go in there and what's the concentration, right?

3:06:05SpeakerSo I believe that the azurescins that stamens found were tested at about 4%. The liberty caps tested at around 2%. Most of the cubensi species tested about 1% psilocybin by dry weight. So in a gram of mushrooms, that puts you at about 100 milligrams per gram. So what you would want to put inside of each capsule is less than a third of a gram dry weight would be sub-intoxicating, sub-psychotic.

3:06:46SpeakerAnd eolas like in Indonesia are even weaker. I mean, they're like, They're quite low. Totally. Yeah. And you'll have that range. Many of the ones that are commonly found are going to have less than 1% potency. Some of the hybridization has taken them up.

3:07:12Dr Mark ScialdoneIs there an entourage effect from everything else that's in the mushroom that makes The, the psilocybin that's there. So if it's only 4% psilocybin, that means there's 96% other carbohydrates, polysaccharide, what, maybe a little bit of protein. I don't think there's too much protein in mushrooms, right? Mushrooms is mostly polysaccharide in the fruiting body, right?

3:07:39SpeakerBut they do produce mono and diterpenoids.

3:07:45Dr Mark ScialdoneSo is there an ensemble effect in mushrooms?

3:07:49SpeakerI would imagine so, Mark. Absolutely, yes. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say, you know, with, you know, because there's psilocin, psilocybin, norsalosin. Yeah, there's MAOIs. We will not be able to quantifiably say that in this, you know, proven manner until it's regulated in such a way that we can start culturing those different plants. True, but at the same time, if you take the four compounds that were just mentioned, And you take enough to have a good dose of just that single compound, you'll see each one is slightly different.

3:08:30SpeakerAnd if you take all four of them together, it's again, it has a synergistic effect.

3:08:35Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWell, Albert Hoffman synthesized the psilocin a long time ago, and they created synthetic, you know, psilocin. And it's not the same as taking the mushroom.

3:08:48SpeakerAnd they've seen potency change depending on different leaders as well.

3:08:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicinePsilocin. And what I'm saying is also a lot of people, you know, nowadays when you, when you, Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:09:28SpeakerJust in the way that we get entourage effects with all of these different types of mind altering or different types of medicinal plants, we can compound them with other plants to get even a further entourage And this is just herbology. This has been happening for a really long time. And we want to be able to be as supportive as you can. You don't want to be so allopathic that this particular compound in the mushroom creates this type of cerebral effect when in fact it might be causing a liver effect that is not so beneficial.

3:10:08SpeakerSo in compounding these, we can really look at ancient Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so excited to be here with you today. I'm so excited to be here with you today. I'm so excited to be here with you today. I'm so excited to be here with you today. I'm so excited to be here with you today. I'm so excited to be here with you today.

3:10:27SpeakerI'm so excited to be here with you today. I'm so excited to be here with you today. I'm so excited to be here with you today. I'm so excited to be here with you today.

3:10:41SpeakerIn a polyculture and a myriad of medicines. Yeah. Yeah, because many of the mushroom species actually often require some of the real specific either hardwoods or softwoods because they'll actually be pulling some of the precursor compounds out of that wood material that then get brought up and to then get synthesized into the larger molecular weight triterpenoids that were found in some of the mushrooms.

3:11:09Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd the mushrooms. Exactly. They're a low level toxin to your body. That's part of the trip. So to be able to take supportive herbs, Chinese herbs and different herbs to support your body while you're doing it, then you're not getting the depletion afterwards. You're getting the full benefit. And that's often used with MDMA as well. You know, if you're going to do an MDMA therapy, you often would take What is it?

3:11:35Josh Dragonfly Earth Medicine5-HTP or a few other different supportive minerals and herbs with that while you do it.

3:11:43SpeakerAnd Mike, I love what you said. You know, it really is like what kind of substrate is the mushroom coming from? It is such, yet again, I have to say it, it's an adaptogen, not just an adaptogen on how it makes us feel, but what it uptakes in its environment, what kind of epigenetics that it creates. Thank you for joining us today.

3:12:22Speakerof that mushroom completely than if you were to get it off of a pine tree say and then you've got you know those a lot of the triterpenes that really come from pine just as an example I just love that you brought that up and it really it makes us realize that there is no ceiling is basically what I'm trying to say with these plant medicines in reality

3:12:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd we know with cannabis as a dynamic accumulator, it uptakes toxins. Well, we know mushrooms uptake it even more, like Kelly's saying. And a lot of times with Cubenzas, you know, you're composting manure. Manure-loving mushrooms and... You would just make sure that that compost and all the manure and all the hay that you're using is coming.

3:13:21SpeakerMushroom.

3:13:27SpeakerYou're breaking up unless I'm having trouble.

3:13:33Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe probably broke up. We were just saying it's incredibly important to have organic compost, organic hay and all that in the cultivation of Cubenzas because they suck.

3:13:46SpeakerIt's going to play well into being able to culture the, you know, culture the culture of the cannabis industry because being able to have those locally biodynamic soils are going to allow those farms to be able to culture those plants, you know, within their region. And, you know, it leads well to the evidence than some of the old adage where people would Take strawberry clippings or blueberry clippings or raspberry clippings and put them into their compost and then feed those into the compost beds, thinking that they can derive some of the flavor out of those broken down plant materials.

3:14:25SpeakerGood luck on that. Yeah, I don't think you'll ever have any of those terpenes survive the microbial degradation.

3:14:32Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, that becomes bacteria food. As soon as that stuff becomes soluble, it gets eaten immediately. Absolutely. Yeah. What did you say, Sam?

3:14:49SpeakerI agree with you, Mark.

3:14:54Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, we got a hash church episode now. Mark and Sam agree. Holy moly.

3:14:59Collin PalmerLet's patent that.

3:15:06BubblemanListen, I want to thank everyone for coming out today. We did go over our three hours today. We're a little bit over noon on the Pacific Standard Time here. I got my we went into mushroom talk, so I figured I'd put up the inside of a psilocybin cyanescence gill where you can see the tiny little spores all around the gills there. And so I just figured I'd share that.

3:15:28BubblemanBut I am going to. I'm going to shut her down because I'm going to be consistent with this. I want to do it every week. And we're going to have the Discord chat open. I will put the Discord link into the comment section of this video. So make sure you go join over there because that chat is going to continue to roll. And right now I have a general chat, a hash church chat, both in text and in voice.

3:15:50BubblemanSo you can actually go use your voice in that chat and talk to people like you're on the panel. And then you can also go to the psilocybin mushroom room that I created while we were doing this show today. I would also implore all of you to try and get on Clubhouse. It's been pretty cool, been pretty fun. A lot of us that are on the panel here are going to be in and around Clubhouse, I suspect, for the next couple of weeks, maybe longer, if we fall into the...

3:16:16BubblemanYou know, the vibes of it. But listen, thank you so much for all your wonderful perspectives. Love the Dragonfly Earth Medicine, Josh and Kelly. Super happy that Girls in Green and Wook Sauce came in today to share their perspective. Always a pleasure to have Wade and Alec and Skunk Man Sam and Brian and Colin and Mike West and Etienne and Dr. Mark. Everyone that makes this show what it is, it's nothing without all of you.

3:16:45BubblemanSo please thank you for your perspectives and just your willingness to share and being loving, empathetic human beings. I love all of you so much. You'll never really... You will never know how much I love you all for doing this. And thank you everyone who's in the chat room, who's watching, who's hanging out, who's creating their dialogues and their conversations based on what we're doing here. I really look forward to the day where these platforms merge and we can start pulling people out of the chat room and giving them a chance to ask their questions and to be a part of this show with us because they are a big part of this show.

3:17:21BubblemanAs always, may the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later. Thank you everyone for coming out and we'll see you next week.

3:17:28Dr Mark ScialdonePeace out. Bye everybody.

3:17:30BubblemanPeace guys.