Harvest and Breeding Techniques

0:03Collin PalmerGot it.

0:06SpeakerMonsieur Etienne Fontaine.

0:11SpeakerAll right, all right. Here we go. About to go live here. Talk about good timing, Etienne. If I hadn't sent it to you, I'd be in here alone right now. Welcome, everybody. Hash Church 4.0, Episode 6.

0:28SpeakerPotentially going to be a very small, intimate Hash Church today. Can you hear me, Etienne?

0:33Etienne FontanYes. Can you hear me?

0:35SpeakerI can. Absolutely. I can hear you. Welcome. Welcome. How are you doing this morning?

0:40Etienne FontanI'm doing good, sir. I just kind of woke up and saw there was a hash church. It was like, oh.

0:50SpeakerYou know, I guess I must not have your email because I used to do all the invitations via that Facebook messenger. And I just sent out an email to the same group I sent out last week. Which I remembered, or the week before, which I faced having you on it. And so, yeah, it was kind of last minute. I think Colin said he'd try to come in and the Dragonfly Earth Madison said they would try to come in.

1:16SpeakerAnd I think Mark, Mark Sheldon also, Dr. Mark said he would try to come in. And even Napro, maybe it was Napro Mark too, that instead of Mark Sheldon, I can't even remember.

1:26Collin PalmerMaybe I didn't even invite Mark. I can't even remember now. So.

1:31SpeakerAnyway, you know what? We'll have a little gathering here. Even if it's just you and I, we can chat for a little bit and discuss what's kind of going on. I just like being available for the good folks here that are waiting on the regular for us to come on these Sundays and kind of a nice, nice way to spend an hour or two on the Sunday morning.

1:55SpeakerSo

1:57Etienne FontanSo how are things been going in your neck of the woods? It's fall coming in. It's harvest. How is harvest coming along for people?

2:06SpeakerWell, you know, I got to say, like from an outdoor situation, I have just seven small plants on my deck. And I got to say, they're looking phenomenal. Like it's surprising how phenomenal they're looking. My phone's vibrating here, but I don't know why. Oh, Angel, he's calling me up, but I can't answer the phone because I'm on hashtags right now. Sorry, dude. I know. I know. No, the plants look incredible.

2:40SpeakerWe haven't had any rain. I don't know if it's the same all the way down there, but there's literally been like

3:09Etienne FontanAnybody else hear him?

3:28Etienne FontanAm I the only one? Did his mic go out? Can you hear me, everybody?

3:35Etienne FontanHello. Marcus, we cannot hear you. There you go. Let me see.

3:45Etienne FontanAll right. Nope. Your audio cut in and cut out again.

3:53Etienne FontanWell, hi, everybody. Welcome to Hash Church. I'm not sure what's going on, but we're having some minor technical issues with Bubble Man.

4:03Etienne FontanIt comes in. It comes out. And then it goes off and then comes back on. I cannot hear you at this time. I think people can hear me. It was back for a second. Yep, there it popped in. There we go. All right, so they can hear me. You were popping in and out.

4:29Etienne FontanI think we're going to have to do a bong hit, bong rip.

4:34Etienne FontanPretty sure, yep, yep, he's going out again, everybody. Yeah, you come in and go out.

4:46Etienne FontanI'm still, people can hear me, yes. Can people hear me? Just put it in chat if you can hear me. I'm looking at chat.

4:59Etienne FontanSwitch accounts.

5:09Etienne FontanNope. Can I hear you?

5:14Etienne FontanI don't know why. They can hear me, Marcus, unfortunately. They're blaming the beard. They say it's the beard of knowledge that is causing the issue. Oh, I got you back now. There you go.

5:31SpeakerYep. That was me getting a call from Skunk Man Sam on Facebook Messenger, and that just completely took my AirPods away. It completely took my ability to talk away and hear anything. Okay, sorry about that, guys. Little technical difficulties there. Where was I? I was talking about... Harvesting.

5:56Etienne FontanStuff on your deck.

5:58SpeakerYeah, stuff on my deck. So yeah, they look amazing, dude. They look better than anything I've grown outdoors. I'm not a big outdoor grower. I always kind of grew indoors, but I gave these things a little bit of sort of, that was the Medi one, sort of that organic earth juice type food for maybe two or three feedings. I never measured it. I never pH the water or the, you know, the food afterwards.

6:22SpeakerI just kind of like the minimal amount. And then, um, I've been giving it water for the last like month, month and a half and the resin production is absolutely phenomenal. It's shockingly phenomenal in fact. I wish the plants were bigger. Hey, welcome Dr. Mark. Hey boys, how are you? Oh, not too bad. Got my audio and my, my, my, yeah, my audio back. I lost it there for a second and was, Talking into the into the ether.

6:53SpeakerSo that was kind of fun. I haven't had one of those moments in a while where I was like troubleshooting while we're completely live.

7:03Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, that's like live television, right? You never know how it's going to go.

7:08SpeakerYeah, exactly. You never know how it's going to go.

7:11Dr Mark ScialdoneNot that I've ever really done live television, but well, this is this this this today's version of live television. This is it. Marcus, we've been living it, right? Right?

7:23SpeakerYeah, true enough. And someone told me the other day that we've been doing this for like eight years. Does that sound right? Have we been doing this for eight years?

7:33Dr Mark ScialdoneIs that right? Yeah, I mean, I think it was 2015 when Horatio first hit me up and said, you need to come out and straighten out this Tony Verzura guy who's talking all kinds of chemistry and He goes, I know from talking with you on Facebook that you know what you're talking about. So he wanted me to come into that discussion guns blazing, but I was like, no, I know Tony.

8:01Dr Mark ScialdoneI had been out to Colorado once, Mark, and had hung out with Tony because Penske made an introduction. And I think, didn't we do a hash church from Tony's place one time with Penske there?

8:16SpeakerYeah, definitely.

8:18Dr Mark ScialdoneI seem to remember that because AJ was there too. I think it was Tony, AJ, me, and Pinsky because me and Pinsky were rolling out west. I seem to remember.

8:29SpeakerYeah, no, I do remember that. Absolutely. That's going back. Wow. Rest in peace to Horatio for sure. Every time I think about him, it makes me a little sad.

8:38Dr Mark ScialdoneGone way too soon. He was instrumental in introducing us. As you know, I mean, I had developed an online kind of interaction with him kind of like on the underside. It was before Facebook too. I forget how he had reached out to me, but I think it was through some kind of internet exchange on chemistry. Yeah, rest in peace.

9:03SpeakerUnbelievable. Unbelievable how fast time goes by. For a little... Sunday Morning Hack Church. Oh, maybe we're actually going to hear him play music. Remember, in eight years, we have not heard him play those keyboards.

9:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHe plays the tricklevania. Hell yeah.

9:34SpeakerHow goes the harvest, John?

9:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're all really excited. It's been probably the most amazing fall, you know, in British Columbia that, you know, let's say anyone can remember. So, you know, this is our first chance at really seeing what, what strains do, you know, up here without, you know, Thank you for watching.

10:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're really excited to go to these new gatherings that are happening. The next one's the Organic Cup in Michigan, which Colin went to the one out in New York and told us a bit about it. And now it's happening in Michigan. So we're really excited to go out to Michigan, meet up with the family. There's some new DEM Pure things that are happening. Farmers out there and in Maine, and hopefully a couple of them will join us today.

10:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineConnor, Terp Wizard, and Hunter from Hidden Forest up in Maine. Hopefully they join us today. They're also going through harvest and washing. Yeah, I haven't started washing too much hash yet from this year, but I'm really excited to get into it. So yeah, things are really good up here other than the bear and the deer, which we've already talked about, have really done a number on our farm, so.

11:17Collin PalmerWell, hopefully it's been a good year of like, you know, learning about what the next season will bring for you guys on the genetic side, you know, and just kind of paying attention to the things that are going on in the garden and, you know, from the plant for morphology to resistance and, you know, just understanding what The next season will look like, I think is, you know, it's always a nice preview into the, you know, previous years genetics, you know, so quite a bit with the heavy rains that just ensued, but, you know, luckily I started covering things and, and really just making sure that the, at least the rain wasn't on top of the plants.

12:00SpeakerYou have heavy rain.

12:01Collin PalmerMan, I was in California for it, but apparently yesterday or the day before it was Thursday or something, it was like all day. It just rained all day.

12:11SpeakerWe ran a six millimeter in like four months.

12:17Collin PalmerWow. Yeah, it was crazy. I mean, the East Coast is just a different world, but it just, you know, East Coast, man, we can have like 20 inches of rain the last month of your crop and just it changes your world. You know, so it's, it's a very different environment. You know, everything could be going perfect until August and September and then October rolls around and it's just, you're, you get beat up, you know?

12:41Collin PalmerSo it's, it's really important to be proactive.

12:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI saw on Brian's Best Friend Farms Instagram yesterday that they got four inches of rain in 24 hours. So, you know, that's our whole, and welcome, Connor. I'd love to hear from you in just one second. I was just going to say on the rain tip, I mean, we have to prepare for Armageddon every fall type thing too. That's why we have We have seven different greenhouses on our property.

13:09Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey're all different styles. We sort of always keep the walls up. Really, the greenhouse is just a roof. In the springtime, it's walls and an end wall and all that. We get that early. But we don't even need that early start because, honestly, starting in May, Aaron Wiggins, Chiropractic Surgery, Chiropractic Surgery, Chiropractic Surgery, Chiropractic Surgery,

13:47Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAaron Weiss, ACID Rain Off the Buds, just kidding, but probably that too. And also just rain in general. We have to be careful about humidity and just flow through humidity, but that's the one thing. You know that we really, we start our light depths June 1st or middle of June so that we can at least have one good greenhouse that's probably going to do well by being done in the middle of August.

14:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBecause by the end of August, we can plan on rain. But this year we did get rain in the end of August. We got a week's worth of rain in the end of August here in the Kootenays. And it did fuck with some plants, but And honestly, we've done so much soil building on our property over the years. This is probably the first year we didn't use any teas on any of our property because it was totally unnecessary.

14:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicinePlants had zero bugs, zero mold, zero issues, no trellising. The odd plant got tall and heavy and fell over during some winds, but we just put some bamboo in it and staked it up. Most of our plants are just self... They just hold themselves up, you know, and we let them blow around all year so they continue to be strong and it's sweet for us. So anyway, that's that.

15:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut welcome, Connor, Terp Wizard from Michigan. How are you doing today, brother?

15:13ConnorI'm doing great. I'm just trying to get some of my soil beds tucked in for the winter and get everything prepped before it gets too cold out here. We had a really nice season this year. I picked some spots in the woods that are a little bit more shady. So things started flowering sooner, which means they ended sooner as well. And I've been really enjoying growing in the woods compared to the yard.

15:43Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat's cool. That's cool. And also Plant Magic Homestead is the farm that you just certified, which is all the outdoor and all the genetics. Really enjoyed growing your genetics this year. Just by the way, we had a lot of really good results from the All of the strains that we got from you and even the GMO, which we told you in the spring was the one, one of the one plants in the greenhouse that didn't get eaten by mice.

16:11Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineNow, I don't know if you can put mice resistant on the label, but it didn't get eaten by mice. So anyway, yeah, the strawberry jelly, which you can tell us the real names, but sometimes I just put the actual cross on there because it's easier for me to see what the plant is while it's growing so that I can vibe on, oh, this is a grape cream cake by Banana OG, or this is a strawberry pie by Grape Cream, and then I just get the vibe on what the plant's expressing.

16:48ConnorYeah, thanks for making space in your garden for the seeds that I made last year. You guys knocked out of the park. I was super impressed with all the expressions that they brought out in your space. And it's been fun to see people in different microclimates grow it here in our state and as well as others and see what expressions they're getting. Yeah, it just shows, you know, breeding under the sun and growing it outdoors.

17:19ConnorYou get a little bit extra advantage when the plants are made in the environment they'll be grown in.

17:30SpeakerMakes sense. Makes sense. Welcome, by the way, Terp Wizard. I don't think we've ever met, but nice to have you here on Hash Church and Josh spoke highly of you and yeah, good to have you here. I also got to say shout out to Wade Lafter in the house and Stuntman Sam who both showed up here in the last little bit. Sorry for so many mistakes today, guys.

17:50SpeakerI guess, I don't know what happened, but somehow I must have started a different, oh, it's him speaking, but I can't hear him. Can everyone hear me? Yes, I hear you. I hear you.

18:05Dr Mark ScialdoneI think ATN is having a conversation with somebody in his room.

18:09SpeakerYes, yes. It freaked me out. I've had so many different glitches today that emails aren't going. I somehow started a different Zoom link than the Zoom link I sent to everyone. So, yeah, I'm dropping the ball a little bit over here. I'm not going to lie. A little bit of ball dropping going on, but we're all here. It's good. Welcome, everybody. Nice to see some new faces in the room.

18:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlso, Hunter from Hidden Forest out in Maine might jump on. He's also harvesting and doing some last minute washes out there too as well. Hopefully he jumps in. Not sure what everyone wants to talk about, but I know Connor, you were involved in the Smoking Jacket. Did you go out to that event out in California and then you visited some farms? Maybe tell us a little bit about the entries of the Smoking Jacket, possibly, if that sounds interesting to everyone.

19:07ConnorYeah, it was a really cool event to be a part of. I've never been or competed at a... Aaron Wiggins, Chiropractic Surgery Center, Chiropractic Surgery Center, Chiropractic Surgery Center, Chiropractic Surgery Center, Chiropractic Surgery Center,

19:45ConnorJared Wolfe, Jr.: Where most of the profiles were leaning in that box there's a lot of fruit very little gas from my nose it seemed like there's like a lot of papaya and and skittles dominant profiles in there. Jared Wolfe, Jr.: And yeah I don't get too many opportunities to go out to California, so it was a really great trip for me and then. You know, spending half my trip in LA and getting to experience that and then going up north into the Humboldt area and then into Southern Oregon and visiting Alpenglow and Cushkirk.

20:20ConnorIt was a really magical trip to kind of have the yin and the yang of the city and the forest all in one week. You know, I wish I had more time out there. And yeah, it was a really magical experience for me.

20:37SpeakerSo you got lots of people shouting me out in the chat room, dude. People, one guy says he's super looking forward to linking up with you at Cream, Ashwin next Saturday. Sticky Flower Farm says, yo, Connor, your Dalgona Brown in Oklahoma smells like Welch's grape soda. And there was a few others shouting me out. So good to see you making some waves in the Terps team.

21:07ConnorYeah, it's been really awesome to see all these people who I sent seeds out to and got to meet over the last year make space in their garden for some seeds that I made in my backyard. You know, I don't really consider myself a breeder. I kind of like, you know, working with the hash plants that I have available and then finding a male that's interesting to me and, you know, combining them and seeing what they do.

21:32ConnorYou know, obviously there's certain traits that I'd like, but I don't know if I'm quite as, uh, experienced as some other people who would, you know, call themselves a breeder, you know, I kind of just say I'm a, my seed project. So I'm making seeds. And I don't, I don't know if I'm quite ready for that. But yeah, it's been really sweet to see everyone's results and to see what the male was bringing into the equation because I was pretty familiar with the female stock of everything.

22:00ConnorAnd yeah, it's been some stellar results.

22:07SpeakerThe beautiful.

22:12Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhat are some of the varieties that you've made this year?

22:19ConnorSo I selected a male from Cush Kirk's blueberry watermelon times melon bread, and I slapped it too. A couple different finos, a guava yogurt, which is frozen fro-yo times a, Lucy's Diamonds, and then Pancakes from Aficionado, Sugar Coat from Shwell, Chococola and Sour Diesel from Skunk Tech, GMO, which is a local cut. There's like a couple GMO cuts floating around Michigan. And then... We've got Creme de Grapia, which was selected from JJ, Michigan Regenerative Farmer.

23:09ConnorSo that's kind of like a little Michigan DEM collab.

23:16SpeakerI think there's one or two more that I'm drawing a blank on, but I've got like- The mail that you used, is it alive? I mean, do you keep the mail alive for the next year?

23:32ConnorNo, I'm going to be selecting a male probably from the F2 stock I made. And then just keep finding new males. Just, you know, I pop a lot of seeds. So I like to find something that's interesting, that catches my eye, and that has some lineage that is more towards the hash side. Like I'll grow out some of the females, see what the expressions I'm seeing from that and kind of Hope that some of those traits get transferred over.

23:59SpeakerYeah, the reason I was mentioning that was because, you know, you can take a male clone and with ethylene, you can transform it to a female. And then you get a really good idea of what terpenes and cannabinoids it has the ability to maybe pass on to its progeny. It's a lot more sophisticated breeding.

24:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhat was the name of that compound that you were saying, Sam?

24:27SpeakerWell, it's called ethylon, but what it is, it's ethylene gas. Yeah, I think it's ethylon is the technical name on it. But what I'll do is on Hash Church, I will post the name of the chemical and the name of the paper where they talk about using it. But what's nice about it, unlike SDS, which you can use to make, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

25:00SpeakerThank you.

25:23SpeakerWham bam, thank you ma'am, the male will turn female. I think I've showed Marcus photos of the work before. And yeah, it's not so good for form because some of the female, the male that gets transformed into a female doesn't look particularly Sam, is that? I feel like that's a diamond drop.

26:17SpeakerIt is. You dropped. My question to you, Sam, is that similar to... You can smoke it. Is it like selfing, but with ethylene, correct? It's like selfing, except for with selfing, what you're doing is you're taking a female and making male pollen. With this, you're taking a male and you're making a female from it. got it so it's the reverse of that yeah amazing that is a gem yeah and it's smokable unlike anything you've done with STS you cannot smoke it in fact you can't even really handle STS it's dangerous right yeah Yeah, that's for those that don't know, that is like the sage wisdom was just cast upon us.

27:07SpeakerDid you also as well there, Sam?

27:16SpeakerWhat people have to do in the past was you had to take a male, keep it alive for a few years as a clone, hit your ladies with it, and then grow those seeds out and find out. So it was a several year process for you to find out when you field tested the progeny seeds that you actually produced. With this one, it can, for example, if you have 10 skunk number one males, This will immediately show you which one has the most resin which one is the you know it really really points in the direction and when I first did this about I had been using my skunk mail for maybe a decade or longer.

28:00SpeakerThen I tried this on it, and I was shocked and surprised how sweet the mail was. In other words, people are always saying, oh, you bred the skunk out of skunk. But I did it because I preferred the high, the smells, the taste, the effects, and it's my creation. Of course I could do what I want.

28:25SpeakerWhat I found out was that the mail I had been using for the last decade was even sweeter than the girl.

28:33Dr Mark ScialdoneI think people find that out too, right?

28:38SpeakerThat's a serious gem. That's a serious gem you just dropped there. And for those of you that want more information on that, you would be implored to join the Facebook Hash Church group because that's where Sam's going to post this information and Amazing that it like Sam has so much information in his head that he can't just put it all out there. We have to have conversations for now, I think, eight years for that to get extracted.

29:07SpeakerSo thank you, Sam. And thank you for kind of pulling that out of Sam. Usually when I'm sitting in my chair, some of it sort of just leaks out my ear 24-7. It's awesome, dude. And Josh inviting Terp Wizard in because it was really Terp Wizard who somehow pulled that out of you there. And man, I'm glad we did this. That right there was worth past church today.

29:35SpeakerThat's like, I don't know if everyone understands how fucking insane and profound that information was. And I'm not sure if you heard this, what Sam just said, Best Friend, but if you didn't, When it's really, really important is let's say you have 10 or 20 males of the same variety and you don't know which one is the best one to use. You can either use them all or you can actually pre-screen them using this, get it down to two or three, then use those separately with your ladies and find out which truly is the best of the two or three or if all three of them are good.

30:20Etienne FontanWell, I guess that's Hash Church, ladies and gentlemen. I'd like to thank you.

30:23SpeakerThat's a wrap. Mic drop. Yep.

30:31SpeakerIt'll be seven years from now, so I'm going to be like, hey, do you remember what Hector's set was when Sam talked about that chemical that he put on the bananas or something? Like, I don't remember exactly. Can you tell me what number that was and what time he said that? I think the chemical's name is ethalon, but if, you know, my memory is a piece of Swiss cheese, so.

30:53SpeakerI don't know.

30:55Collin PalmerWe'll call it, no, it's not Swiss cheese.

30:57Dr Mark ScialdoneCall it CD1 receptors. Yeah, exactly.

31:02SpeakerDid you hear what he was saying though, Brian?

31:06Dr Mark ScialdoneAbout gender bending and playing.

31:08Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, I just caught, I just caught that with out of the 10 males, select the two to three, the top two to three.

31:15SpeakerBefore that, he's turning males into females to check their terpene and cannabinoid profiles. with with this with this chemical that yeah yeah yeah just say it one more time sam we need this twice oh okay basically what it is it's using ethylene and you spray it on a male just as you're gonna begin to flower it and it will turn female it will produce you know 99 female instead of

31:47SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

32:12SpeakerCan give as part of the inheritance package that it's going to get.

32:18Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd Sam, you could potentially clone that male beforehand, right? And then have a few of those males around.

32:28SpeakerYes.

32:29Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOn the female.

32:31SpeakerOh, yeah, absolutely. But you can't, you can't, it's only a temporary transformation. It doesn't permanently change. It's like if you use SDS, you know, it's not a permanent transfer. The DNA hasn't changed. All that's changed is the sex expression. You know, in the case of STS, you're making a female produce male pollen. In this case, you're using ethylene to produce a male that produces female flowers in expression.

33:09SpeakerSo you can analyze it and see what it is. Not only that, but you can smoke it. It's totally safe.

33:16Etienne FontanSo would you recommend that as opposed to we used to use gibberellic acid back in the day to turn the female to male? Is that what you would use?

33:24SpeakerThe gibberellic acid, again, is female to male. And I'm talking male to female. It's a completely different picture.

33:33Etienne FontanNo, no, I understand. I was just wondering if there was a difference.

33:36SpeakerWell, gibberellic acid didn't even particularly well turn It's a growth hormone. So that makes sense. Correct.

34:03Etienne FontanYeah, because I got turned on to gibberlic acid because when I was working on bonsai, if you're trying to elongate a particular branch for like a Chinese, you know, drop style or Japanese cascading, etc. You would use that gibberlic acid and that's how I got turned on to it and then started applying it to cannabis. Which we did get male pollen from, but the stretching and elongation made it very challenging in smaller rooms.

34:29SpeakerExactly. I had a 20 foot tall greenhouse and I find a gylarubic acid unmanageable.

34:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDon't you usually use gibberellic acid with colloidal silver if you're going to use it for sex?

34:44SpeakerI don't use colloidal silver. I use STS. It's much better.

34:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's just, it's a toxic compound where colloidal silver is not. So some people can still, they could use colloidal silver if they want, because you can ingest colloidal silver in your eyeballs and in your body.

35:01SpeakerOkay, well, I've never used colloidal. Well, actually, we did. About 25 years ago, we tried every different known method. And collodial silver was one of them. So was Giliribic. But what we found out was that STS was absolutely the best, the most reliable. The only problem is if you're going to transform a female to male, you have to make sure that female doesn't have the tendencies to express intersex because then you enhance the intersexness.

35:39SpeakerYes, exactly.

35:42Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe just recently walked through a hemp field out in Kelowna and there is a licensed cultivar called Umpqua that's up here and one more anyway and it was it's feminized seed and we walked through the field and there's probably like a good four All five different phenos in that field, which I thought was sort of surprising. And I didn't know if one of the methods of feminizing is less stable than the other.

36:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut I thought with feminizing, it would just be a little bit more stable than that, even though a lot of it was. And it was actually a really sweet crop.

36:30SpeakerProbably what they were doing was using We have poly multihybrids for either their male pollen source and transformed female to male pollen source or their females. And when you have polyhybrids and you breed them with other polyhybrids You're going to get multiple phenotypes, which could either be an advantage or disadvantage depending on what your purpose is. Most people who cultivate want to get a large crop of fairly identical stuff so that they can, you know, do the COD and the analyzation and everything else as a package rather than each separate plant.

37:14SpeakerYeah. And so Josh, I, you know, I grew a lot of those varietals in the States here and I had a chance to do like super haze, you know, a couple of different sours, the Umpqua, the Lifter, a bunch of them. And what I really noticed is what Sam just said is that they're definitely using polyhybrids and even probably crossing those polyhybrids with other groups of polyhybrids.

37:37SpeakerAnd that in and of itself, when you looked at the field is like, Thank you for joining us today.

38:10SpeakerVery, just reminding me of older varietals from like the early 90s and late 80s. Yeah. Only the other handy things that you can do with ethylon is you can use it to create a all male variety from seed. So the first year you do, you make the cross of a, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

39:02SpeakerYou can easily produce crops which are 100% male, which most people, there's no use for that. But for fiber, in theory, an all-male crop would be better because there would be no problems with the police because if there's no female plants, then you don't have a problem. And if they're all male, male fibers actually finer, a little bit finer than female fiber. So it produces finer woven fabrics, if you're interested in that.

39:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDo you recommend any kind of decorticator, any kind of small sort of home-style decorticator to where people could put their hemp stalks in it and make the fiber and the herd, or they could take nettles, nettle fiber?

39:53SpeakerHow many plants?

39:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWell, I've seen ones on Alibaba and different things for, you know, four or $5,000. So something like that. And plant wise, I mean, I don't know, I'm talking for the sustainable farmer where maybe you're doing an acre or three.

40:12SpeakerBut then you need a real device, not just a toy, because I've done it by hand. That's right.

40:21Etienne FontanYeah, Gardella out of Italy makes larger machines. I know domestically there's only small producers. I know John Lupien out of Oklahoma. I mean, pardon me, out of Nebraska was making one because he took the old decorticators and kind of made one that was towed. But I know that back in the day, Gardella made the finest ones that you could just tow to a tractor. And it would basically separate the herds from the wet fiber.

40:50Etienne FontanSo the wet fiber would just be hanging on a rod. And then you could just pull that off and then dry it. Are they still around, Sam, Gardella?

41:00SpeakerI think so, but you know, I haven't been keeping in touch with the hemp industry the way I used to. So I can't really say. I mean, I've seen all kinds of sophisticated French, Italian, Hungarian, et cetera, machining, Czechoslovakian, Polish. But I don't know which one is the best and the most practical depending on your crop size, because also whether you're going to do it like you say fresh or dried, because traditionally it was done dried.

41:35SpeakerNow, if you can do it with wet, it might be faster and easier.

41:41Etienne FontanAnd what he's talking about is the retting, because back in the day you used to field ret, i.e. let it sit in the field and let the bacteria eat the lignin off of it. The problem with that is it would cause it to turn gray. A lot of that Polish hemp would turn gray if you did that. Absolutely.

42:00SpeakerAll the French was gray. Even the Italian was gray.

42:03Etienne FontanAnd so in Eastern Europe, we would actually take large baths, which they had large concrete baths, and they would soak them. And so we would water red it so that the bacteria in the water slowly did that. And that way, we kept the golden color of the hemp. So that's how we did it by water redding. Whereas the Gardella machine, it pulls it off green. So if you were able to dry that properly, it should come out golden as well because you're no longer dealing with the bacteria eating the lignostic glues that hold the plant together externally.

42:38Etienne FontanSorry to nerd out there, people.

42:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOh, no, I love it. I was just going to also just put in Danny and her father from the Colorado Hemp Project. They do amazing, a lot of amazing work out in Colorado with industrializing plants. You know, decortication and stuff and fibers and they do different things in the world. And I've been meaning to get in touch with her. She's really amazing.

43:01Etienne FontanSomebody is saying Herdmaster, H-U-R-D Master comes up on Google. Looks like they have some medium scale offerings. Somebody is saying specifically Tony Neg in chat. So thank you, Tony.

43:16Dr Mark ScialdoneIf you have a million dollars, and I know a lot of people don't have a million dollars, but if you do have a million dollars, or if you have a rich uncle who's got a million dollars, go look at a thing called the hemp train. Hemp train's very interesting. Machinery, I think, was actually a Canadian company at one time, Marcus, and then they were purchased by a wealthy guy in Pennsylvania in Red Lion, PA, and I know he's got one of those hemp trains up and running.

43:43Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd yeah, it basically fractionates the herd from the fiber from what I guess is just like the biomass that's just ground into a green powder, which could be extracted for CBD and whatnot.

43:59Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd some of that finer fiber can be used for plastics and different things like that. But yeah, I just like the hemp train.

44:09Dr Mark ScialdoneI want everyone to get on board the hemp train like we all got on board the Soul Train. Remember the Soul Train in the 70s? Everyone got on board. Started grooving to the music of Black America and it just became Yeah, this is definitely the way to go. Well, the Hemp Train, everyone get on board. The Hemp Train.

44:31SpeakerYou could be our new Don Cornelius.

44:37SpeakerWelcome to the Hemp. I saw a video meme of that the other day where it said, when the cocaine was so pure, even white people could dance. And it had all these Soul Train whiteys dancing. It was pretty... Pretty hilarious.

44:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAll right. You know, soul train and roller skating and we're getting into a whole new realm.

45:04Dr Mark ScialdoneI think really to just interject for a second. So it really speaks to something called the economy of scale, which is that if you could afford one of those big ham train type machines, those scale, then to run this, I mean, it's just the operating cost of the plan itself. It doesn't make sense to do And Cordication on a small scale. What does make sense is to have like a processing center local to your farm where you could bring your your your stocks and or they can come and pick it up in a truck or something like that and then return to you the material after it's been after it's been processed.

45:44Dr Mark ScialdoneBecause, again, just look at the it's really cool. I think they have a really interesting video that describes the process. And the overall mechanical feat of separating the herd from the fiber. And Sam, you've probably seen this at industrial scale. Whenever you do something and it's just at sort of like garage or basement scale, it's one thing. But when you do stuff at really tremendous scale, the power that's needed to turn those motors is really important to consider.

46:21Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd just that, They can do it a lot cheaper down the street if you have that sort of investment All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

46:29SpeakerThank you. Thank you.

46:53SpeakerIt was at an Italian museum, a hemp museum outside of, ah, shit, I can't remember the name of the city. But it was...

47:02Dr Mark ScialdoneIsn't it true, Sam, that in the worldwide market of hemp, and I don't know this because China is definitely a wild card here, that all of that antiquated equipment is still producing the world's We've got a bulk of what's consumed and what's used. I'm not talking about CBD in particular. I'm talking about mostly fiber, seed, and oil. That's all made on very antiquated assets, not stuff.

47:29SpeakerI think there's really only a few countries that are even producing fiber, to be honest. Right, right. Hey, Marcus. Slovakia, right? I know Marcus had a big, you know, early days of hemp. I know you were like really heavily involved in that stuff in Canada. Was there, were you guys using, you know, large machinery at that time to harvest that material for hemp? And, you know, what, when did that come out?

47:54SpeakerYeah, in 98. In 98, we had a hemp pageant. I remember that's what we called it. And we invited all these people over, all these different people that had interest in the hemp industry. And I remember there was really wild, like we were just a bunch of kind of young dudes from Winnipeg, kind of like, yeah, let's do this hemp thing. And I remember these guys, the Hack Brothers showed up because they were like own diamond mines in Africa.

48:19SpeakerAnd we were like, what brought them? And then it was this like billionaire guy from Germany named Peter Steiner. Who had this piece of hemp metal that was like lighter than aluminum, but stronger than titanium. And it could cut glass. And it had been shipped around the world eight or nine times. And he brought it. I held it in my hand. I put an X into a glass ashtray because we still had ashtrays at the hotels back then.

48:42SpeakerAnd we brought over a harvester from Holland. And we brought over the guy who basically ran it. And we harvested about five to 10 acres at our hemp pageant with all of these people present. And I'll never forget when he had the two big red cutters in the front and he just ripped through this five acre field. This thing was fast, too. And it was it was Dutch made.

49:06SpeakerSo it was you know, it was definitely like the Dutch definitely know how to farm and how to build equipment. And so it was pretty incredible machine. I'll never forget when they ran through this five acre field, the pollen that came off of the field was like clouds of pollen. I'd never seen anything like it before. And some people got really nervous because they had allergies and they were like, oh my God, I'm going to die right now.

49:33SpeakerAnd it didn't surprisingly set off many people. There were a few people that kind of had to move away, but Yeah, I have pictures of that somewhere. I'm not really sure where those pictures are, but I do have pictures of that harvester.

49:46Dr Mark ScialdoneMarcus, how much did that harvester cost? Like would the average farmer who's growing hemp today be able to afford this harvester?

49:58SpeakerWell, it was certainly not a cheap machine. I can't remember back then. It might have been a quarter of a million dollars. I'm sure today it would be five or six or $700,000. I, you know, don't quote me on that. It could have been a little bit less. It could have been a little bit more back then, but it was not a cheap piece of machinery, especially to bring over and get to Canada.

50:17SpeakerBut the work that it did of the hemp and how fast it harvested the hemp, I certainly wouldn't think anyone growing under, you know, 500 to a thousand acres would, would be getting one. But, um, You could harvest very quickly. And it was profound for us because we were just super young. This was like 19. So it would have been before 1998 because I moved in 96.

50:40SpeakerSo it probably would have been 94, 95, maybe 95, 96 when we had that done. We grew our first field in 95. So it wouldn't have been 95. That was an experimental field. There was only one field grown before our field, and that was in 94. And that was by Jeff Kime and Joe Strobel, the tobacco farmer and the lawyer. They got the first ever license in Canada, you know, in the last 73 years or whatever it had been since hemp had been grown in Canada.

51:11SpeakerWe were one of the five or six groups that got our five acre experimental field the next year. So it was pretty cool, kind of neat to be a part of that history and You know, I'll never forget inviting my mentor, Ron Hickey, who had served, I guess at that point he had served six and a half years in jail for Canada. He would end up serving another five plus years in the federal penitentiary with mass murders and rapists and psychopaths for being a habitual florist, albeit.

51:41SpeakerBut we brought him in my Volkswagen van to our first five acre field and he definitely had tears in his eyes. I'll never forget the Just the profound revelation in his soul that was occurring, you know, and I'll never forget my partner, Martin Marovchik at the time either saying, this is going to change the way people think. Not necessarily the smoking of it, but the driving down the highway and looking over here and seeing like a five, five acres was the most any of us had ever seen.

52:11SpeakerAnd Ron grew a lot of cannabis, but five acres just in one big field in 1995. Uh, was substantial. And we were surprised at the time because it looked, it was buds. It was just like, it was, it was herbs, you know, it was, you know, at the time we had convinced our minister of, uh, it was minister of agriculture and minister of finance that, uh, you know, hemp was a distant cousin of, of the insidious marijuana.

52:38SpeakerAnd it really wasn't the same thing, but once we grew it and we saw like, holy shit, this is definitely Very close to the same thing. Big stinky bugs and, you know, 10 foot tall plants.

52:50Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, Marcus, Marcus, there's that important distinction, that important 0.3%. And weren't you guys, wasn't this group, the people who had kind of defined 0.3%? And if I remember correctly, I'm not sure that this is true, but I thought it's because That was the limit to which they could detect too. So they said, okay, we can detect this limit. So therefore that will be the limit 0.3%. And now look at the ramification that that's had since, right?

53:20Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was a definition. It was on a document.

53:22SpeakerI thought it was the peace treaty, the 1962 or whatever the peace treaty was for, for growing hemp. And it was, it was, I remember it was Martin, I think that found it. He was reading this very dry document and it was like amendment B. And it said, if it's below 0.3%, it is deemed hemp.

53:42Etienne FontanWell, we had linked up with... Yep, we got a freeze up. Starlink. Ladies and gentlemen, Tesla Starlink.

53:57Dr Mark ScialdoneThe government doesn't want this to be here. Conspiracy. You just went off for a second. Just as you were about to say something important, you froze.

54:09SpeakerWe met this guy, John Stahl, in Amsterdam, who is living...

54:18Collin PalmerHe's living.

54:20Etienne FontanAt least he's living.

54:22SpeakerWell, I'm going to take an opportunity to say goodbye to everyone. I love you all so much. And everyone that's listening, you're all so amazing. And thank you for reaching out and continuing to be enthusiastic about the plant. I love you all. Thank you. I've got to go.

54:40Dr Mark ScialdoneColin, I need a battery. Send me a battery.

54:43SpeakerOh, yeah, I got you. I'll send you. Yeah, I got you, brother. I love you guys. Bye, everyone.

54:49Collin PalmerHave a good one, Colin.

54:50SpeakerYou too. See you next week.

54:52Etienne FontanAll right. Marcus, you're froze again, so you're going to have to try that again. I knew.

54:55SpeakerWith Mr. Stahl and... And he hooked us up with these farmers and go to Barotco at the Institute of Bass Fibers, and I guess he had been breeding this Zolotinotia. I guess he got told some years ago that if he didn't get rid of THC, he had to get rid of hemp. And so he...

55:19Etienne FontanThe internet does not like his story.

55:24Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat is this, ATN?

55:28Etienne FontanI don't know.

55:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI didn't know.

55:29Etienne FontanLadies and gentlemen, start your conspiracy theorist websites now.

55:34SpeakerNot meant to be shared.

55:36Etienne FontanApparently not. Another day. Another day. The Illuminati has said no.

55:44Dr Mark ScialdoneStrange happenings on House Church.

55:47SpeakerThat's it.

55:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOkay, so really quickly, we went to Romania to look for CBD and hemp probably close to eight or nine years ago. I forget what it was. We went to Bulgaria and Romania and drove around. And in the province of Maramures, outside of Transylvania, up against the Ukraine border, that's where we really found CBD. Thank you for joining us.

56:49SpeakerYeah, it's super durable. For being 100 years old, you would be so totally surprised. And the bag is even stitched up with thread that's even more coarse that's also hemp. So the threading on it that they've stitched the bag together outside of the weaving is also hemp. And it is like incredible. It's easily going to last another many more hundreds of years. So also soft and would be really warm.

57:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah. So they also grew flax. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be right back.

57:36Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then you just weave in and out the thinner sticks or whatever. And then you pack it with whatever you have. So the best thing that you can do if you're going to use like hempcrete or if you're going to use these small decorticators, which we're talking about, is you can use the herd, the inside part of the hemp. And if you mix one third clay, one third herd, and I like it that it's one third herd, you heard.

58:08Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then water, you can mix it up in a concrete mixer. And then you can make forms or you can just paste it up against the wall. And clay, herd, and water makes nearly like a concrete on your wall.

58:25SpeakerAnd we saw buildings there that were... Bethany Hrachovec, CA Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs, Food and Rural Affairs, Food and Rural Affairs,

58:43SpeakerAnd I think also when you're working with that kind of natural building materials, you can even see like some of the buildings or some of the homes even slumped with some of the earth. As the earth slumped, the house would sort of slump too. So yeah, it wasn't linear and there weren't straight angles and everything, but the house then sort of became part of the landscape. Really beautiful, but yeah, incredibly functional.

59:07SpeakerMaybe even a thousand years later.

59:09Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd also they start, you started realizing, oh, wow. So instead of fence posts, they just plant trees like willow, chestnut, apple trees. All there. And then and then the tree is what they use a technique. You just cut it at chest height every fall and then in the springtime sprouts up a bunch of branches. And a lot of times out in the West, you're like, oh, Jesus, all these branches, we got to get rid of them.

59:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe don't know what to do. Let's burn them. But out there, they're like, you know what? We make them branch and then we cut them off. Yeah, we cut the branches off and then we use that for all of our weaving for our walls. We use that. We make rakes. We use wattle and we do raised beds, wattle, wattle beds, wattle fencing. It's spectacular. It's an amazing way to live.

1:00:02Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlso, when we were in Haiti, we went to Haiti after the earthquake. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:00:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAll these small motorcycles into the inland and I started going, oh my God, there's all these houses are still unaffected out here because they were all wattle and they were all woven houses and fencing. And it seems like, oh, these are primitive housing, but they didn't lose their house. They didn't lose their crops. They had all the food. All the crops that they had before the earthquake.

1:00:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo, you know, sometimes the simple methods, you know, are the smartest methods and get you through. So that's why simple homesteading can be a really effective tool for everyone, you know, to inspire one another.

1:01:08SpeakerYou know what? All this talk of hemp, I want to shout out Gait Scoglin. Rob Clark sent me this book recently, the Cannabis Textiles book. And all sorts of cool pictures. There they are harvesting hemp in Romania, you know, Transylvania. Really, really great information. If you want to go, if you want to learn more about hemp textiles, this is a cool book. There's Victoria in Transylvania saying hemp has always been growing there.

1:01:35SpeakerIt's really great. All the different cultures that have been growing hemp and producing textiles are in this book. And I would definitely suggest that. Checking it out, Cannabis Textiles.

1:01:49Etienne FontanYep, edited by Rob Clark too.

1:01:53SpeakerAnd quite a few photos in here as well by Rob.

1:01:56Etienne FontanYeah, it's a great book. Highly recommend it.

1:01:59Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd also this amazing fabric from Hemp Boutique. This incredible fabric from Turkey, right? I'm here, Marcus, Amir and Amir and Rob Amir and Rob Clark are doing this really beautiful fabric textiles from Turkey.

1:02:19SpeakerAnd it's nice that the pattern that you see on that is not dyed. It's the two different colors of hemp that are interwoven there naturally. It's really beautiful. Yeah, it's really beautiful stuff for sure.

1:02:42Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineFrom Hemp to Hash, I was going to say we made some really good strains this year and I was going to name off a few just to get back into like, you know, strains and maybe we can hear some more, but from Kush Kirk, We got sour garlic, sour cream, ice cream cake lily, papaya sour garlic, and the sour diesel lemons. And we crossed that with the fire glue guava punch that we made from last year.

1:03:17Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd we're really excited about that because all the fire glue guava punches that we made this year are spectacular. And they have a deep blue and purple color going through them. And they have a grapey kind of essence to it. They also have some of that fuely chem doggy chem flavors in there, which we think are really, really beautiful. We also made some really good ones out of the new Zellies gift that we have and the Hindu Kush and the Royal Purple and this The strawberry jelly, again, was really, really sweet.

1:03:59Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWith the Frenchie's Forest we made last year, we created that strain called Frenchie's Forest in honor of Frenchie dying and passing on to the next realm. We talked with Kimberly and we said, hey, Kimberly, we have this really beautiful strain that we made. And she said, well, he was such a force of nature that we just wanted to, you know, we just, she and we decided to call it Frenchie's Force.

1:04:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd it just, it's very crystal-y, very floral-y, and it grows really resistantly to, it has the guava punch in it as well.

1:04:35SpeakerUh, as some GAC varieties, um, from, from, I definitely think that it was the winner in our garden this year, that French East Forest, I think also, you know, when you put intention like that into something like we grew it for him, we crossed it for him. We had a really deep conversation with Kimberly and OCN, um, his daughter, their daughter. And we wanted to call it Frenchie's Funk at first because it was so funky.

1:05:01SpeakerYou know, we really got like all these really funky flavors in there. And she said, you know, he was such a force. I think Frenchie's force is good. And wow, you know, it's amazing. You put intention into something like that and the plant really feels it. So that plant is something and hopefully we'll be able to bring some down to share with people and share across Canada too.

1:05:23SpeakerSo we're stoked. For those asking about the hemp from Amir and Rob, they're hempboutiquebouquet.com. I put the link up in the chat room.

1:05:44SpeakerThere you go. There you go. Back to the terps.

1:05:49Etienne FontanI like terps.

1:05:53Etienne FontanIf you were trapped with one terpene on a desert island, what terp would that be?

1:05:59SpeakerI like the combination of many terps and thials and esters and thiawates. I'm not the monomolecular terpene guy. I want the... The combination. I like so many of them. I like gas. I love hay. I love fruit.

1:06:20Etienne FontanWhat would be the name of the flavor of them all together combined? The swamp water.

1:06:33SpeakerTake me back to when I was a little kid at hockey practice and I'd go and get all the pops put into one cup, right? I want a little bit of all of them, the swamp water. You know, I always thought mushrooms contain so many terpenes and try terpenes and to try to pull out all of the different terpenes that like a mushroom contains is quite complex.

1:07:00SpeakerSo I always wondered if all of the terpenes mixed together smelled like a mushroom.

1:07:05Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineKind of like all the colors together are gray.

1:07:08SpeakerOr brown.

1:07:08Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOr brown.

1:07:09SpeakerYeah.

1:07:10Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineGray brown.

1:07:10SpeakerRight. Right. Yeah, that's an interesting way of looking at it. No, I love the variety. I love the spice of life. I love that people have different olfactories and have different preferences and that they also have different environments to grow things that tend to express things, you know, differently. And I just love, I love the variety. I get asked all the time, oh, if you had one cultivar, what would you, you know, what would it be?

1:07:38SpeakerIt's like, I don't know, like if I had one cultivar, I'd for sure get bored of it. That's what I can tell you. Although I will say, I think the one that I had the longest that I didn't get bored of was probably the Rene, which was very fruity and flavorful. And just, you know, it was like pot to get you busted. It stunk so bad, so good.

1:07:57SpeakerIt just reeked through the bag. You couldn't feel the stuff. But when you burned it and exhaled, It had a hazy smell to it. So it had these two varieties of this fruity flavor that it tasted like and it smelled like. But on the exhale, if you exhaled a big puff of it, a bubble or whatever, and you walked out of the room and you came back in, you'd swear someone was puffing haze.

1:08:20SpeakerSo I like that, that it had these very, very different groups, the two groups that I probably prefer the most. I've never seen them kind of together. In a way like that. So I have a special place in my heart for Renee. Shout out to Dr. Renee and shout out to Mohammed who turned me on to the Renee way, way back when in the 90s. Much love to those guys.

1:08:50Etienne FontanIs the Renee still around or has that been bred into something else?

1:08:55SpeakerYeah, I mean, great gardener was breeding it into the stuff. And, you know, I've, I've heard people say they have the Rene, but it's like the Romulan, you know, the Romulan was short lived. Everyone thinks they have it. They don't. I used to get it from Romulan Joe himself, and he got it from the group of guys. It wasn't his cultivar. It's just how he really became well known.

1:09:16SpeakerThat was a very special plant in the nineties as well. And it, It just disappeared. It was years later. I saw a cut from an overgrow guy that I think his name was White Rabbit. And he had this cultivar that was like a cross of the Romulan. And it had that. It's like the shish keberry, you know, the shish keberry. Yeah, you can taste it in the Nicole.

1:09:37SpeakerYou can taste it in the Barbara. It's definitely what makes those two cultivars special. But do you see the pure shish keberry, like the yellow and the red line anymore? No, not so much. They seem to be things of the past. And Maybe that's okay. Maybe that's what builds that love, that loss of not having it anymore makes you remember it even maybe better than it really was.

1:09:59SpeakerI don't know. But I do know that people are making just as good of things nowadays with the new cultivars that they're breeding. And so there's always excitement in cannabis. Things may come and go, but there's always greatness around the next corner.

1:10:17Etienne FontanYeah, Romulan was a special one. Unfortunately, we lost it in a bay just due to white pottery mildew. And Champagne, I think, also had Romulan in it. Same problem. One of those just very bright, expressive floral cultivars. But unfortunately, nature and man didn't necessarily combine too well on that one.

1:10:39Dr Mark ScialdoneGo ahead, Brian.

1:10:40Bryan Best Friend FarmsI've got a... I've got a Romulan BX4 going right now, three phenos. I've still got one outside that's really late. It's actually a Romulan BX4 to sour best shit ever. And two of the phenos, I'm learning what, they've only run once for a quick test and now one of them's outside only and brought back in all three to try again. But this one I have in the yard is really, really unique.

1:11:07Bryan Best Friend FarmsI'd call it like a seven up. Soda type of smell on it. So I don't know Romulan really well, the pure Rom, but it, you know, a couple of them come off like seven up lime type of thing, influence. Not sure where that comes from or what the original Romulan tasted like, really. So yeah, New Day.

1:11:28Etienne FontanIt's very piney. Piney to almost grapey a little bit.

1:11:35Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicinePiney lime. And the buds double covered in crystal. So that's the one thing you really got to look for is just the ridiculous content. So that probably will just... Yeah.

1:11:51Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, they're coated. This one's called Candy Coated from Katsu Seeds on that one, actually. And yeah, candy coated. So looks trikey for sure. And then I had, I was going to say, I tried this really unique... Probably the best tasting resin out west before I left that I couldn't place again or find the cultivar again. But it was Big Sur Holy Weed on an OG, Big Sur Holy OG.

1:12:21Bryan Best Friend FarmsAnd that was like the most unique alien spike ranges, you know, like Marcus talking about on the XL, the Irene where it came out hazy, went in a different way. So that one was just this really like reach to haze, skunk, pine, classic kind of, I guess, later 90s into early 2000s kind of thing with it, late 90s from the little bit I know that realm. But yeah, Big Sur, holy OG.

1:12:49Bryan Best Friend FarmsIf anyone knows where that is, yeah.

1:12:51SpeakerWe grew that exact cross for a long time up here. We got it from down in Cali.

1:12:56Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo I got it from Coastal Seeds. Michael Cagu from Coastal Seeds in Santa Cruz.

1:13:01SpeakerYeah, Michael probably still has it.

1:13:03Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineCheck him out. He's amazing. Also has like he just posted Maui, Waui.

1:13:08SpeakerI mean, he's got all the- He used that Big Sur Holyweed because it is so resistant and really heavy waiter. So like yielded really heavy. And it was almost like anything that you crossed it with would just be phenomenal. That was a really fun cross for us to have for a long time.

1:13:27Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlso, Bobby and Merrick, the Snodgrass family genetics did more with that Big Sur Holyweed. Yeah, a lot. And also the Coastal Haze. They did some work with the Coastal Haze and also the Puna Butta Cookies, which is the Big Island, South Big Island Puna Butta.

1:13:46Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, that bud was out on Dead Tour in the early, early 90s. And that's, you know, my bag seed story from Summer Tour 1991 was getting a bag from my friend Ron from Shasta. Hey, Pizza Man Ron, how are you? So, uh, Yeah, we planted it like several years later and the plants actually, they never looked healthy because for some reason they just look just very strange.

1:14:17Dr Mark ScialdoneThey grew right next to plants that look just fine. And those, those two seeds, the plants were like, I don't know, just small runts of the litter and very purpley buds. There's lots of yellow and purple and orange in there. But yeah, they were just big Sir Holy is just, yeah. Grateful Dead approved.

1:14:41Dr Mark ScialdoneGreat.

1:14:41SpeakerI'm sure they helped move it around.

1:14:43Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah, they certainly did. I mean, there was, I mean, I think we've talked about a hash church, just the influence that, and I think, you know, Josh and Kelly, you guys got to agree, right? The influence that the dead had in bringing kind bud from, I mean, there was kind bud always in NorCal and Oregon, right? And if you think about it, that was like the dead's, So when they went out on tour, all the hippies that followed them brought really good nugget.

1:15:14Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd people were like in some arena in, I don't know, Cincinnati in the 70s. And all of a sudden it's like, who stepped in dog shit? And it's like, no, man, that's the way weed smells when it's proper, you know? And yeah, I remember like my friends, well, a lot of people would go to the Grateful Dead shows by acid, by fucking weed. Bring back to their little communities and they were, oh man, you got that from Dead Tour.

1:15:41Dr Mark ScialdoneLet's go back on Dead Tour and get some more. We're out, right?

1:15:45SpeakerI'm sure many a good bag seed was found.

1:15:49Dr Mark ScialdoneAlso fun back then to just, when they were rolling around the country, it was like a traveling circus. It was so much fun.

1:15:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI would encourage people to look up on YouTube Grateful Dead parking lot videos from the 1980s.

1:16:07SpeakerThey're fun to watch.

1:16:07Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineJust look up parking lot videos from the 1980s and just watch people getting interviewed in the parking lot, 80s and 90s.

1:16:14SpeakerHilarious.

1:16:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI mean, you start realizing, whoa, everyone's super stoked. They think they're on the tip of some like absolute total great thing. All recycling, all national parks save the environment. You know, it seemed like all food, the food. Food, just progressive thinking, art, you know, different ways of life.

1:16:39Etienne FontanShakedown Street was mind-blowing to people. For me, being bald-headed kid that I was back in the day as a punk, Thank you for watching.

1:17:05Etienne FontanThank you for watching.

1:17:30Etienne FontanThey have not been given their due for truly spreading Kind Bud nationally on a whole other level.

1:17:38Dr Mark ScialdoneAlso, Alex, that's why we're talking about it. We're doing it right now. We're acknowledging that, right?

1:17:45Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's weirdly still happening.

1:17:47SpeakerAnd I could definitely say, because it's been so long ago, I'm so thankful. If it weren't for Grateful Dead and Kind Bud and being able to move that around, Dead Tour, I mean, I wouldn't have made it through university. I'm so thankful. I have all kinds of majors.

1:18:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt also wouldn't have taken her so long to get through university.

1:18:07SpeakerYeah.

1:18:10SpeakerHey, eight years, three majors, all, you know.

1:18:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineShe was on roller skates with fairy wings and a fairy wand.

1:18:18SpeakerAnd it was a great front for Kind Bud. I was able to get through anything and anyone and totally. And that's all that I had. There was no other strain name. I didn't know. People would say, what do you got? And I'd say it's Kind Bud. And I was getting it from all the Eugene crew. And bringing it out on tour and then, you know, giving it out to people who would come out to San Francisco who were from New York and they would pick it up from us.

1:18:47SpeakerAnd I mean, we thought that we were dealing big stuff when we had a half a pound and we were like, you know, breaking up a half a pound of kind. But that was a big deal. And people would come all the way from New York.

1:18:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt would affect the parking lot.

1:19:01Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was just so different, so different than the little brown manila envelopes full of seedy Mexican weed that you'd get from like someone who'd be selling weed in New York City. And it was easier, quite frankly, to buy cocaine. That's one of the reasons why cocaine's popularity and crack took off in the 80s is because they didn't have good nuggets. But I think when the Grateful Dead started reaching their echelon in the late 80s and Good Nugget came east, I think that helped maybe with the crack epidemic because it seemed like a lot of friends that I knew just needed really, really much better weed than they were smoking.

1:19:45Dr Mark ScialdoneA lot of them went to coke and other drugs. But to be quite honest, I mean, like even like if you were at like a Neil Young concert or like an Allman Brothers concert, You'd be hassled for smoking weed at the arena. Like if you had like just a little one hitter, people would be like, oh, put that shit out, man. You're going to throw you out.

1:20:04Dr Mark ScialdoneWith the dead, people would bring in bongs and glass. And it was just an elaborate ceremony that the, you know, Bill Graham just paid off the promoters to say, look, this is the dead. It's a traveling circus. They all smoke weed. They're really peaceful. All they want to do is smoke weed and spin as Jerry... I think a lot of the other bands, for some reason, it seems like didn't have that thing figured out, you know.

1:20:34Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey also brought, you know, and the mushrooms are known to help with addiction. You know, I mean, you can say, oh, it was just a party in the parking lot. Well, kind of, but it also affected your ways of thinking it. What were you going to say, Marcus?

1:20:49SpeakerWell, I was just going to say there was the dark side of things, too, because because it was such an open circus, the police really it was like shooting fish in a barrel. The amount of people that went to jail for LSD and did 10 year sentences, the people who got busted with weed. It was just it was kind of like that bummer of prohibition. And when when people kind of hate on cannabis becoming legal, which tons of that sucks, there's all sorts of shitty things about legal cannabis and And endless array of them.

1:21:19SpeakerWhat's not on the list of legal cannabis is 10 year prison sentences for getting caught with a bag of weed in Arkansas or whatever. So there was that as well. I mean, I was more of the fish tour, you know, I that's Thank you for joining us.

1:21:56SpeakerSo they bust these poor kids and then they get them to become narcs and go out and bust three more people. Go find ecstasy, go find acid, go find whatever you can. You get three people, you can go free. And I had a lot of friends end up in jail during that time as well. So it was this beautiful, amazing, important thing that was happening. And then there was this real nasty underbelly that I'm But I'm sure a guy like Jerry Garcia was conscious of and probably, you know, it probably gave him nightmares, the idea of how many of these young people were getting locked up in prison, really just for for tapping into this amazing, like, the police just suck to hone in and be and to on the weakest on the most vulnerable on the like, just these like, beautiful, loving people that just wanted to have fun and And get together and enjoy, you know, psychedelics and cannabis and amazing music.

1:22:52SpeakerThere was that part of it as well. You need to look at it the way the police do. They were soft, easy targets and they weren't going to kill your mama, daddy and sister like the cartel would.

1:23:09Dr Mark ScialdoneTrue. And to let you know, Marcus, I mean, just to give you a report. So on a recent fish tour, This recent tour. I mean, really, incidents with police are kind of few and far between because fish tour now is kind of like sophisticated audience. It costs a lot of money for tickets. So people, you know, they're kind of like destination shows, like people plan their vacations around them.

1:23:34Dr Mark ScialdoneSo there's travel plans that are being made. But there was one noticeable show this past run of fish shows where there were a lot of butts in the parking lot. We're basically cops. We're going from car to cars. People are tailgating. I mean, you know, like you said, Marcus, this is like, it's like our tribe. We want to go, go there, turn off the keys to the ignition.

1:23:57Dr Mark ScialdoneWe made it to the parking lot, open a nice frothy beer, smoke a joint, eat some food, you know, socialize with some friends, go check out Shakedown Street, maybe have a balloon or two, if that's what suits you. But I mean, the cool thing is that again, most, Ben Hughes were placed places where fish plays these days. They got that figured out. They're like, OK, fish is coming to town.

1:24:22Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's going to be this crazy group of people. They're going to need to set up, you know, and there's going to be campers. There's going to be deep fat fryers and falafels. And it's just there's a whole infrastructure that kind of organically comes together. And it's still so cool because like if you're a teenager or like a college age kid and you got a couple bucks in your pocket, you could still go on tour and have like an adventure.

1:24:51Dr Mark ScialdoneLike you don't know like where it's like you might have like a couple nights tickets lined up like you don't have it all figured out. But because there's some uncertainty in your future, it's kind of cool because you don't really know what's going to happen. You'll probably just end up going back home and working the rest of the summer to pay your hotel bills but yeah i mean there's like there's nitrous mafia at all the shows now so wherever you go there's balloons just everywhere you know and it's just like you know i don't know i mean i'll you know admit i like to do nitrous every now and then but you know i just think it's just proliferated the scene to where it's just just garbagey they leave all their balloons around and like A couple hours later, you go down 7th Avenue after, you know, Madison Square Garden is let out and there's just balloon trash everywhere.

1:25:43Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it's just a couple guys down an alley still sucking on one balloon, like three guys sucking on one balloon because that's all that's left, you know. It's kind of, it's brought a little trashy element to the scene. But all in all, I haven't really seen the huge bus and organized bus that like the DEA had a project called Dead End. I think that was in 91 or something like that.

1:26:06Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd they intentionally sent agents out onto lot to almost get like information, like infiltrate, like try to be cool and make a deal, but not necessarily bust somebody, but try to figure out like who their plug is and try to figure shit out. And I had a friend, very close friend of mine, who's our keyboard player in our band, who went down on such a thing that It was just, it was horrible, but you know, yeah, it was just part of prohibition, but a crazy time to be alive and following the band around.

1:26:38Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the Grateful Dead, I think the Dead and Company are doing one more tour, supposedly, next summer.

1:26:46SpeakerEverybody, everybody who's interested, I did post that Ethelon at Hash Church and the article, and I also posted, uh, In the chat, so all the people who are on Hash Church can also see it.

1:27:09Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat's amazing. I was going to say, you know, for us in the late 80s, like everything is what you make it, you know, but for us, it was going to dead shows and seeing super natural people, you know, living a nature life, you know, And then going back home like to Oregon and then just studying my ecology and studying herbalism and just learning about midwifery and natural building.

1:27:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then, you know, going back to the dead shows and bringing like tinctures and bringing medicines and products. And it really is, I feel like the origins of like the legalization of cannabis came from those Aaron Waldman, MD, Those areas and that from that like sentiment and that like sharing of medicine. And it was like we were learning about dosing and making, you know, medicated food at the time.

1:28:03Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd it was, I think, pretty sophisticated if even if you want to call it anecdotal or stuff that was just happening on the parking lot. But I know that like With Rock Med and First Responder Medicine, a lot of that. And Kelly still does that stuff with with professional athletes nowadays, you know, with, you know, falling on jumps and everything. But yeah, no, it's it's amazing how it's it's.

1:28:29SpeakerYeah, I think it was. And it also was the beginning of. And yeah, Marcus, you're absolutely right. I think whenever there's a really bright spark Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today.

1:28:49SpeakerI'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today.

1:29:08SpeakerBut why is it that we continue to put ourselves at risk for cannabis? I know I did. And I knew what the risks were at that time. I knew that I could look at 25 years easily for what I was doing or lose my kid. I knew that. But it was still like there's some kind of a relationship that you have We've got a lot of work ahead of us.

1:29:31SpeakerWe've got a lot of work ahead of us.

1:29:49SpeakerThere's something very like deeper. I don't, you know, I don't want to call it spirituality or whatever, but there's something very essential about how humanity exists with each other and how we communicate with each other and then get together and then, you know, spread that information. Something so beautiful about it.

1:30:09Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd take everything higher.

1:30:11SpeakerDead Tour was that, for sure. Fish Tour was that.

1:30:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd Country Fair was that. Gordon Country Fair is not that anymore, but it was that. And it was the first time when we saw Keef, you know, was it an Oregon Country Fair lineup waiting for food, right?

1:30:28SpeakerOr right when you... Yeah, so let's see, 1990, I was in line for some pizza. Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:31:01SpeakerThank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:31:27SpeakerChange, you know, like, what was that? And that was, yeah.

1:31:32Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd that was back at a time we used to think it took all these hoses and contraptions to make hash. We just didn't know, you know what I mean? We just didn't know. We thought it was a big deal. Turns out it's not.

1:31:46SpeakerAnd he said it was key. Well, it was at the time for certain, part of your history. Sam was probably puffing on the 99.999 back in 89.

1:31:56SpeakerAbsolutely, I was.

1:32:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhen did you, you fell in love with food and did food help you fall in love with hash? And do you find there's like a thing with preparing high end food or to like preparing the hash and making the hash and creating that space?

1:32:24SpeakerWho are you asking? Excuse me.

1:32:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI was talking to Connor, but anyone could answer it if they want. I just was talking to Connor in that in that moment, because I know he loves the two of them.

1:32:42ConnorYeah, I think there's a lot of crossover between kitchen prep and hash prep. You know, there's a Oh, there's a huge emphasis on being cleanly in the kitchen, which is definitely a crossover for making hash. You know, prepping your space and getting everything in order beforehand. There's a French term called mise en place, which means everything in its place.

1:33:08ConnorYeah, I kind of found hash right as my culinary journey had started. And I think there's a lot of... You know, bleed over from one to the other. I find too with my new hobby of beekeeping that there's a lot of similar things as well. Like you're sifting and using different screens to separate your honey from your wax. So I don't know. There's a lot of things that can be similar to making hash in the culinary world.

1:33:44SpeakerI used to argue with a couple of people who believed that Bees chased after cannabis plants because that they wanted to get to them. Bees do not have cannabinoid receptors, unlike humans. So they're not getting high from it. It may be a great food source for them, but it's not getting them high.

1:34:11ConnorYeah, they seem to really love the male ganja pollen. Last year I had a pretty big mail and every single day they were going out to check out the new sites that opened. There's not too many flowers that I can compare to that will continuously release pollen over that long period. I'm sure some fruit trees will or something like that, but a lot of like the flowers kind of just have like that initial burst.

1:34:37ConnorMaybe they get a couple more later, but ganja seems to drop a lot of pollen over a decent amount of time.

1:34:47SpeakerI've definitely noticed the connection between hash makers after watching so many hash makers, after helping kind of many hash makers on their journey. I hate to say help create hash makers because I certainly didn't do that, but I helped inspire people to become hash makers over the last 25 years or so. And I always found that the ones that had traditional training in a kitchen that understood kitchen SOPs And kitchen cleanliness seemed to shine in the hash making processes.

1:35:23SpeakerSo lots of my friends that were really great chefs, to no surprise, were also great at producing nice hash and also seemed to also grow beautiful cannabis, which is a very important factor. You know, it's great if you understand how to make great hash, but if you don't have the materials to make it, All the SOPs in the world are not going to produce any fire for you.

1:35:47SpeakerYou really have to first understand, have that sort of olfactory relationship, which I think, you know, ties into that kitchen relationship where you have to have a very, you know, you have to have a high level of awareness when it comes to your olfactory, your sense of taste, your sense of visualization, and your sense of creating synergistic um creation with food the way certain foods go together so beautifully and doing certain things with those foods can create these synergies that you know produce more than one plus one plus one equals three but one plus one plus one equals nine and so yeah those those translate very well and i would implore anyone that's out there that is a chef and that is good at what they do if they enjoy cannabis I used to dip in a little bit into hash making because you'll probably shine at it.

1:36:39SpeakerAnd like you inspire people with your food, you'll also inspire people with your extracts.

1:36:48SpeakerI would like to- Stoneliness is next to stoneliness.

1:36:53Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're going to start organizing by our regional DEM pure high-end food and hash experiences at, you know, really nice, either a high-end Airbnb or some kind of piece of land or resort in different areas. And what we want to do is just combine the hash With food, with glazes, you know, with that olfactory experience, not to get super ripped, but really just to super celebrate the aromatic experience of really good food, fresh food from the area with awesome people.

1:37:32Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then being able to offer some of the products to the community that we might not be able to. And we can do that in a private session. We're going to be in areas like Maine, Michigan, Oregon, California, British Columbia, you know, and if the borders open up, we can start hitting up South America and Europe and, and, you know, maybe even Thailand if we, if it, you know, it starts coming open because that's, that's where that's, yeah, that's where our families are and stuff.

1:38:00Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo look for those gatherings as we start getting together. Yeah, we're going to do DEM Pure Pop-Up Experience Nights.

1:38:12SpeakerDays.

1:38:12Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDays to have that out here.

1:38:15Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, Marcus, I have a question. Marcus, in the Whistler technology, when you guys are making hash, what does that come out analyzing at? You know, the reason why I'm asking is one of the challenges here in Vermont is they have, we've just gone recreational or adult use or whatever you want to call it. But they have a limit on THC, which is, we all know, really stupid.

1:38:41Dr Mark ScialdoneBut it's an artificial limit, I think, with it hopefully either be raised or go away later. But right now it's 60% THC. So is that around the ballpark that these hashes come out at?

1:38:56SpeakerYeah, I mean, depending on what you're putting there, you can definitely get hashes. I mean, listen, I was

1:39:09Etienne FontanBrought to you by Frozen.

1:39:13SpeakerI ran. Okay, now I'm back. Sorry. It's a conspiracy.

1:39:18Etienne FontanYou were freshly frozen.

1:39:19SpeakerI saw because you guys all freeze up for me. So I know when I'm frozen because you guys are all like and not moving. So I could. We weren't frozen. You were frozen.

1:39:36SpeakerThere he's frozen again.

1:39:37Etienne FontanAnd he froze again, ladies and gentlemen. So this is the new Whistler's racing technology.

1:39:44Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm telling you, it's being fished.

1:39:46SpeakerDoesn't want to give me the love. Doesn't want to give me the love. You know what? Yes, 60% is right in the range. The highest stuff I made was close to 80. The lowest it's come out, and this is with like a 15 or a 16% cultivar, was the 220, which is usually like you just throw it away, and it was 50%. So you can certainly make hash in that 60% range.

1:40:10SpeakerI mean, your 73.90 and 120 could be a little higher. What I'm finding for these legal markets, aside from California and some of the US markets, is that because of the expensive licensing and the expensive testing, people are mixing a lot of the microns together, which really hurts my soul, like badly. But that will also, you know, if you're putting your 45 through 160 all together and most people now they're making bubble to press into rosin as well.

1:40:41SpeakerThey don't, they don't have the, at least here in Canada. So, you know, 60% is, is a pretty solid range.

1:40:50Dr Mark ScialdoneThose rosins are much higher than like in the, in the seventies or eighties. Is that right?

1:40:56SpeakerYeah, the rosins come in around 65 to 80 or so, depending on the material. I mean, you could always start with a much lower frozen again. Oh, no, I'm not frozen again. When I used to make 99.9 out of my skunk number one, which was 17% THC manicured, so it wasn't enormously high. It was just very terpene rich, so it was very enjoyable. But... When I would make 99.9% resin heads out of it, it was in the low 80s, like maybe 82, 83, 84% THC.

1:41:38Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat was the terpene percentage, Sam?

1:41:44SpeakerOh, you know, I didn't measure it as a percentage. I just did the profiles, to be honest.

1:41:50Dr Mark ScialdoneSo if it was 80%, let's just say 80%.

1:41:55Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat do you think the makeup of that other 20% is in terpenes?

1:41:58SpeakerI wouldn't be surprised if the terpenes were 10% or more because even if they were only three or something like that, what I've got there is

1:42:16SpeakerSo I wouldn't be surprised if at all, if a lot of what was missing was terpenes, but also too, that was dry sip. So there was also natural wax, the cuticle. So yeah.

1:42:38Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. So that might've been that other 10%. So if it was 10% terpenes, 10% cuticle wax,

1:42:45Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd 80% cannabinoids. That's a pretty potent.

1:42:49SpeakerWell, cannabinoids was THC because skunk really doesn't, the amount of, it's got THC, but at really, really, really tiny amounts. And the same thing with CBD. I mean, it's got a CBD synthase in it, but it's mutated and it's non-functional. So it doesn't really produce CBD.

1:43:16SpeakerWe produced rosin that was 84% cannabinoids and 9% terpenes. And so that was in the 90s. But it had like 77% THCA and it had some like 8% CBGA and it had a little bit of CBC and almost 2% of THCVA.

1:43:37Dr Mark ScialdoneMarcus, if you add up all those numbers, what's the total unknown?

1:43:43SpeakerIt was like 7% unknown.

1:43:48Dr Mark ScialdoneSo that's your waxes and you want to get that number as small as you possibly can and get your cannabinoids and terpenes.

1:43:57SpeakerBoth the dry sift and water hash will have waxes on it unless it's been treated with cold.

1:44:07Dr Mark ScialdoneWinterized.

1:44:08SpeakerYes, exactly.

1:44:12Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, but winterization also in that process where you You dissolve it up in ethanol and then chill it to precipitate out any fats, waxes. When you strip off the ethanol, you lose a fair fraction of the light fraction of your terpenes in that ethanol recovery.

1:44:33SpeakerWhen you grow them, you're losing terpenes. When you dry them, when you harvest them, when you touch them, when you move them. I mean, yeah, that's the name of the game.

1:44:50Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo if you're, you know, making rosin from 73 bags or isolating bags, making rosin from 90, if it's not, you know, six star or seven star, because me and Kelly are on that seven star now. And we can talk about that later, but I'm just saying.

1:45:10Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhat do you recommend? Like the home user use the 45 and the 164. You're saying people not to combine them, but do people at home make temple balls with them? Do they isolate them? Is one better for edibles or sauce? What do you have to fry yourself?

1:45:30SpeakerMake rosin out of each of the fractions. And you'll see that the rosin, the difference will be less than the resin. Because when you've got a bunch of different resins, they are a little bit different. But the rosin, it sort of equalizes everything and they all get really, really pretty high end.

1:46:00Dr Mark ScialdoneI would just say that the more undesirable, not undesirable, but the more plant cuticle and plant matter and just the lower or you're higher that unknown fraction, the more Susan towards edibles and topicals and full spectrum, not that there's no value in that, full spectrum oil treatments, you know, cancer patients who need AKA Rick Simpson Oil, just full spectrum oil. You're getting, you know, a full spectrum extract there.

1:46:37Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd people claim, I don't know, have you guys seen this, these rosin gummies where I guess, again, there's a fair amount of flavor from the rosin that actually goes into the gummy that flavors the gummy. So maybe you're not, you're using less sugar because it's, you know, You don't need to flavor it because you're using the extract itself. Anyone experience rosin gummies yet?

1:47:05SpeakerYeah, there's a bunch of rosin gummies that are being made up and around here. And they're also using alternative like sweeteners, a lot of stevia. People try tamarind paste or a mango paste, making some unbelievably gorgeous gummies with rosin. And you definitely can taste the rosin in there, but they're pairing it really well. Like I just, just a few weeks ago, we had like a mango gummy that was paired with a beautiful rosin.

1:47:36SpeakerIt was delicious.

1:47:36Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd the rosin heads chocolate out in Ontario has really good rosin flavor in it.

1:47:44SpeakerTheir chocolates are amazing.

1:47:45Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd they have their Buddha heads and all kinds of different, you know, molds. They're really, really sweet.

1:47:50Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd they pair different. Are you guys all, I mean, again, I'm not, I'm a scientist, so I always like to try to figure things out. And whenever you're looking at the marketplace, there's value for, you know, considering, you know, the way a consumer would think too. And so I always think that like in a infused edible product, the best flavor is no flavor at all. You shouldn't be able to taste like the cannabis extract or all the stuff that kind of comes along for the ride.

1:48:26Dr Mark ScialdoneSo is, you know, again, people use like CBD isolate. Yeah, that's not full spectrum, but there are ways of basically translating full spectrum medicine into ways where the taste and flavor isn't really impact, but neutralized by, I think what you guys are saying, the other components in the formulation itself. And now you've completely crossed from, you know, What is it? Recreational, psychoactive consumption to food and nutrition, because now you're really talking about a food and nutrition product.

1:49:05Dr Mark ScialdoneSo where you could use these Thank you for joining us today.

1:49:35Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I play around with melting lots of sugar in my kitchen too. I mean, sugar just is, yeah, I mean, kind of like necessary evil, maybe. But, you know, everybody likes a Jolly Rancher and this hard candy is really cool because you can suck on it like a cough drop. But are there ways to approach using full spectrum extracts like rosin, but even the more plantier extracts in food preparations where You're not necessarily, oh God, that's just so loaded with hemp or so loaded with cannabis.

1:50:12Dr Mark ScialdoneI could taste a can of butter or I really, the best way of medicating is to pair it in a food that's complimentary or somehow it doesn't mask the flavor, but uses its own flavor profile to put like a bitterness or a sweetness or a sourness into it. What do you guys think on that?

1:50:37SpeakerMy worry is the heating up of volatile organic compounds. You know, it seems like I'm sure people have figured it out and there must be a way to, you know, translate that so you get that flavor and taste unchanged. But I think if you're heating up chocolate or you're heating up, you know, gummies and it's quite a hot temperature, I just I worry that those things will be changed.

1:51:02SpeakerParticularly in their, in their flavor. So I'm sure someone will figure it out.

1:51:07Dr Mark ScialdoneAt the very least, they would certainly be. Let me just finish by saying maybe the most prominent example of that would be like a cough drop where cough drops basically have, I think it's like camphor and pine and a few of the kind of like menthol. Yeah, menthol. Exactly. And so like, yeah, so you could put basically essential oils into basically a candy, right? A cough drop is candy, right?

1:51:33Dr Mark ScialdoneTake it, and then when you, as that cough drop dissolves, you really feel that terpene rush, and you know, I mean, and I think with edibles, again, correct me if I'm wrong, I mean, maybe some people like the edible to taste like herb. I want my herb to taste like herb, but I want my, you know, edibles, or I want my food to taste like food. I don't, I need my food to taste like weed, but I don't know, maybe other people feel different.

1:52:00SpeakerI can remember when I was younger, the more potent the cannabis product, the more bite there was to my tongue, almost like peppery. So when I was, if I would eat herb, dried herb, It would be a little bit spicy like that. If I would eat dried resin or dried sifted resin, it would be quite peppery. If you did a butter or ghee extract of that, it got, I mean, peppery as hell to my tongue.

1:52:37SpeakerSo when I smoked my first pure THC, I assumed it was going to be peppery as fuck. So I put a little tiny bit on my tongue It had zero taste or smell. I couldn't believe it.

1:52:53Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, maybe it's the caryophylline, you know, because caryophylline is one of the terpenes that's in black pepper.

1:52:59SpeakerMaybe that's one of the terpenes that... Well, I haven't done any oral testing, but I wouldn't be surprised if myrcene, limelene, and several other ones also have a bittery, peppery taste. I would not be surprised at all. I can put some on my tongue, but I just haven't done it.

1:53:22Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's a whole genre of cannabis chefs, and a lot of people are using cannabis preparations and cannabis extracts in cooking. And kind of like the point that Marcus raised, which is that if you're cooking, if you're making like, I don't know, a stew or a pudding or you're baking something, you're putting a thermal pressure on this very sensitive Plant material, especially when you're talking about the terpenes, right?

1:53:50Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd the terpene ratio, I mean, everyone's tasted that roasted weed smell you get if you take just weed and put it in the oven and try to decarb it. I never understood that as part of a brownie recipe. People were like, oh, when you decarb the weed, it's much easier for the oil to extract it. But you burn off all those terpenes and you have now this roasted weed smell, which is kind of like burnt terpenes.

1:54:22SpeakerAnd also just the baking itself will decarb it. So they're stupid.

1:54:28Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. So, right, right, right. But I guess the point I'm bringing up is kind of like what Marcus was saying is that if you're using cannabis or cannabis preparations in a food A process to make a food product or a dish and it involves heat. It's going to either destroy or somehow rearrange the terpenes and make like an off flavor in your food. And you're thinking, well, you know, again, kind of like what we were saying with Josh and Kelly, you're getting full spectrum extract and you're getting everything that you can, the whole plant goodness and everything that's in there.

1:55:06Dr Mark ScialdoneBut what you're really getting is kind of like A bunch of degradation products you got from adding this full spectrum extract, which is not thermally stable, into a process where you basically, yeah, turn it into...

1:55:20SpeakerI had that problem. I would make no bake cookies out of haze. So I'd get like a half a pound of haze, and then I would put ghee on top of it. And... Put it over a double boiler and I would lose a lot of terpenes. So what I started doing was I did it inside of a pressure cooker, not at higher temperatures, but just so that I didn't lose anything.

1:55:48SpeakerAnd that helped quite a bit. It changed the taste very slightly, but I wasn't losing it like I was before. I also know that when people are using such a beautiful, high quality product such as rosin in its full spectrum, They're definitely doing raw products. And the gummy that I'm talking about is a raw product because when you work with tapioca and you work with other different types of binders like that, you can definitely do raw products without heating up and making sure that the raw is there.

1:56:24SpeakerYeah, I guess so. Well, no, because remember, the rosin is being pressed. It's being heated up. So it depends on how high, you know, they're heating it up. But if it's a low tan rosin, then it is going to be THCA.

1:56:39Dr Mark ScialdoneWe actually figured this out right here on Hash Church a couple of years ago. It is THCA that basically comes out. It's through what we believe is somewhat of a steam distillation process where the moisture is somehow driving The, the, the cannabinoids out, out, but yeah, so, so tapioca, you mentioned Kelly. Oh my gosh. I had not previously worked with tapioca and appreciated how viscous it is at room temperature.

1:57:09Dr Mark ScialdoneYou definitely need to heat tapioca to get that to move. It's an order of magnitude two or two more viscous than just corn syrup. I mean, it is just very, very viscous. And what, What I also noticed is that if you heat it up too much, it begins to do this crystallization reaction, which totally changes the morphology and the The tapioca that you get out of that.

1:57:39Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's what I use when I make my candy too. I use tapioca.

1:57:42SpeakerNice, nice. But you know what tapioca does? It takes a really long time. It takes a time to cool down before it actually gels. So there's a time in between there that it's actually really cool before it gels that you can add in your rosin. And for sure, these gummies that I'm talking about, they don't actually get you very high. So there is definitely some THCA, you know, in there.

1:58:08SpeakerI do think that there's some possibilities for tapioca to still have, you know, without overheating it or.

1:58:16Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd it's a magical thing. I work with it a lot too. What were you going to say, Brian?

1:58:21Bryan Best Friend FarmsCan you use raw agave that would actually help with the viscosity of it? And then something to bond it.

1:58:29SpeakerYou know, we use Stevia and you can also use a little bit of some super highly concentrated fruit puree. Like you can use mango is a puree that's often you can buy and you can get it organic and is super thick and really concentrated. The same with tamarind. That's another one that's super thick and concentrated. So you can add small amounts of tapioca to it that's not actually very hot.

1:59:00SpeakerAnd it would be nice to look at, you know, the lab studies on it because that I don't have. That's just something that, you know, people are making around here in BC and in the Kootenays and they're delicious and really beautiful. And I know the maker of them and she's doing some amazing work with different types of sugars.

1:59:17Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, she's putting herbs in it.

1:59:19SpeakerShe's been doing even some super concentrated vinegar shrugs with different types of herbs. So the gummies like almost have like a really beautiful little flavor.

1:59:32Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhat a vinegar shrug, yes.

1:59:34SpeakerA vinegar shrug is just utilizing vinegar instead of alcohol as a tincture. So it's called a shrug instead of a tincture. And they're really quite flavorful and quite wonderful if you Thank you for joining us today.

2:00:07SpeakerThey're delicious.

2:00:08Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnyway, also just the whole, anything slow cook, slow heat, you know, the whole slow food movement, you know, that's a great place for the ganja. Also fermentation or pickling. If you have something that's super spicy, you know, you could add it to a spicy pickle or some kind of a little sweet side dish. So again, maybe it's not your whole meal, But it's just a little part of it, you know, to get you kind of spiced up or whatever.

2:00:42SpeakerChutneys or something like that.

2:00:43Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, good. It's fun to talk about, though.

2:00:46SpeakerI do think that the more raw that we can get.

2:00:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAny glaze, you know, could also be a good utilization.

2:00:55Bryan Best Friend FarmsPesto is a good one. The pesto is a really good one for like raw, even into cooked where it's that spicy element of the cannabis that burns your throat even or does mine a bit. And that part can be unpleasant even if I like the taste. So I know when it goes in there with an oil or either like the raw and the composition of it mixing and how it tastes combined with like a almost a piney, nutty, spicy pesto.

2:01:25Bryan Best Friend FarmsSo yeah, savory and not just sugary items where it's, you know, it's fun to explore the tarp and the expressions with food. And I don't, I try not to eat sugar also. So it's one of those.

2:01:40SpeakerWhen you do that, you can make your pesto instead of out of pine nut, you can make them out of cannabis seeds. I've done that. It was delicious.

2:01:52Bryan Best Friend FarmsGreat idea.

2:01:54SpeakerYeah, it makes the pesto really creamy. And if you even blend it with hemp seeds, it makes a beautiful pesto. Also, I wanted to add that even basil, you know, fresh basil can have that super intense bite. I found, you know, certain varietals that actually, you know, are really hot in the back of the throat too when it's raw. So yeah, those two are paired really well together.

2:02:17SpeakerDifferent kinds of chutneys too. Yum. We've been working with like Fresh lime and fresh mint chutneys and adding a little bit of flour in there raw. And that's been really delicious.

2:02:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineFire cider. A fire cider could be good for it.

2:02:34SpeakerYeah. And that's raw as well.

2:02:38Bryan Best Friend FarmsNice ranges and ranges and profile where you have like the spice to the savory texture and the sweets come in with it. I like the spicy and the sweet idea with chutney. That sounds like a good one.

2:02:50SpeakerAnd it's been really fun putting the fresh flowers in the raw honey. And then you leave it in there for a good month to three months, always turning the jar. And then when you look at the buds afterward, you know, all of the trichomes have melted off. So they're for sure in the honey. And that's a THCA. That's an all acidic extraction. And then you can use that honey raw In all different types of things.

2:03:19SpeakerSo that's something that I give to children for like a cough syrup. And they're just getting THCA or CBD. We mostly use CBD in there, but they would be getting THCA with those traces in there. And that's awesome to use that honey. For different types of medicinal extracts.

2:03:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineExtracted other herbs, lavender and honey.

2:03:41SpeakerYeah, you can put all kinds of fresh flowers and honey.

2:03:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd now you're just using this flavored honey.

2:03:47SpeakerYeah, we did a Mendo breath, raw honey with raw roses in the in the honey. And it was like, wow, totally incredible. So that's a beautiful.

2:04:00Dr Mark ScialdoneMaple syrup.

2:04:03SpeakerWe haven't done maple syrup yet and I'm really excited to try it. I just, I don't, I'm sure it would work because it would probably erode the trichomes for sure. But we're excited to try it.

2:04:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe have a Quebec sugar maple growing here. We also can get water from birch trees so we can boil down birch as well to get syrup. And then we have some yacon that we grew this summer. We can boil down yacon to get syrup. So those are the three things that we would like to try.

2:04:35SpeakerI think maple syrup would be amazing.

2:04:37Dr Mark ScialdoneThe birch syrup would make a great soda, right?

2:04:41SpeakerSo delicious.

2:04:42Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, that would be cool. I'd be interested in that.

2:04:46SpeakerYum. Well, come see us.

2:04:47Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHave some sassafras.

2:04:50SpeakerWe're here. We're waiting for you.

2:04:52Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, there's a lot of maple syrup here in Vermont. And so I always wondered about the intersection between Michael Jones, Maple sugaring and cannabis and hemp and where those two nutritional things can come together. Like you've mentioned, I mean, some people are sugar adverse. So syrup is mostly sugar. Although I do see signs for sugar free syrup. I don't know what that is. I don't know. Maybe that's agave or something.

2:05:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, cone syrup would be the best syrup for a person that was sensitive to sugars.

2:05:29Dr Mark ScialdoneWith a maple extract. So you could basically make a synthetic maple syrup by adding like a maple extract to that or something.

2:05:38SpeakerAbsolutely. And I use that in our, in our cooking all the time. I have an awesome organic maple extract because, you know, I don't cook with sugar. So I'm always trying to think of different things outside of the box. And there's some really beautiful maple extracts that are made up here in Quebec. All of the essences and it's really beautiful, but you know, the sugars are extracted.

2:06:02Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, if you're making can of butter in general, maple syrup is a great little additive to add to give it a little punch. You'll end up seeing the water separate after your butter cools, but it'll leave a little bit of the maple essence back in the butter.

2:06:21SpeakerWell, and the cool thing about the honey, when you put the fresh flowers into the honey and then you extract it for a couple of months, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:06:53SpeakerSo, but what happens is when the waters are extracted into that, there's a tiny bit of, and you've got to watch it, a fermentation that might happen. And personally, I think that is like so delicious and really amazing, but there is like something that changes when those extracted waters go into the honey. And I would think the same thing for the maple syrup, but Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:07:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicinePapyrus Bechelinus, or anyway, Bechelinus, and then also Peptoporus Bechelinus, the mushrooms that grow on it, Annotus, anyway, there's a lot of the, that you see that name continuing to come up through the medicinal mushrooms as well. It's the cambium layer, the pulsing waters through the cambium later, that's the most healthy. Why birches? Why chaga is so powerful? And it has the most SODs, superoxide dismutase, SOD. It's a longevity enzyme.

2:08:25Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd chaga has more SODs than any other herb on earth. And one other thing that has a lot of SODs is turtles. So they're one thing that lives a long time. And When you find birch in the forest, you'll see a whole entire tree, you know, decomposed on the inside, but the birch bark will look nearly perfect, like it was still growing because of that, you know, SOD and that type of betulinic acid is in there.

2:08:57Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo making tea from birch bark is super powerful and potent for you. Just put it in the bark into water and boiling it.

2:09:07SpeakerNot boiling, more steeping or simmering and then steeping.

2:09:11Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAssuming people are herbalists and understand what it takes to make, you know, compounds. Yeah, less temperature. And but anyway, bark, even from other trees is powerful. Larch, you know, anyway. Yeah. Healing from the forest.

2:09:34Bryan Best Friend FarmsDo you tap the birch trees at the same time as the maples when they're hard and in the spring?

2:09:41SpeakerYeah, totally. And the flavors of the of the two is really it's pretty amazing. They're really different in flavor. And I think the birch water, I think, is even sweeter than the sugar maple water. Somehow it has some kind of a resonant Like maybe it's like even resinous sweetness that sticks with you that where the sugar maple doesn't have that. But it is true that when you do any type of tests on the triglycerides or all of the different polyphenols and things in mushrooms, we find that the ones growing on birches have much higher medicinal compounds Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:10:53SpeakerSo there's a lot of areas in BC and in Canada, and I know definitely in the Eastern US where the boreal forest and the fir forest hits the birch forest, a lot of that area is just being Thank you so much.

2:11:28SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:11:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd also there's little lumps in the balsam fir and in the spruce in the bark. And you can push out the sap out of the bark and collect all the sap. And that sap and that pitch is super useful and topicals, warming it up, using that in your Topicals and combining that with cannabis is really good. Also in the springtime, the trees pollinate and they sporulate and you'll see a whole entire forest just pollinating.

2:12:26Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo gathering pine pollen from the flowers in the springtime is incredibly useful to, you know, just human health in general. So big up. This is a red belted conch.

2:12:42SpeakerThe beauty.

2:12:57Bryan Best Friend FarmsSo I was going to bring up that is kind of interesting here watching the sun grown full term. uh plants that are matching the colors uh they're obviously all polys you know hybrids at this point but you can see a definite line between the later sativa more green with no purple even into cold versus some of the really dark violet red pink it's actually funny the the drop leaves and the lower set leaves go yellow And then kind of fade up into an orangey red into violet.

2:13:32Bryan Best Friend FarmsSo it actually matches the tree line in the fall here for the foliage. So it's kind of bringing up some interesting thoughts about the sugar conversion that fits into the maple and the birch and how this terroir, this region of the north, all the way across the board where you guys are up there talking about it over to here in Maine, which is big maple country here to Vermont up into Quebec.

2:13:58Bryan Best Friend FarmsAnd I just kind of watching the sugars flow high and then dip low in this really big binary spike, you know, in dip. And it seems to have a lot to do with pushing out smell bouquet for terpene loud, loud in the early morning. When the dew comes in and it's the, you know, the dew points hit and it's just popping off its smell when it goes to bed at night.

2:14:23Bryan Best Friend FarmsEven seems like there's resin cluster and shine with swelling that happens into those plants, those more colorful plants this time of year. So I just wanted to kind of throw that out there as an interesting aspect where, again, interesting in different regions where the different strains can Shine and such, and I'm definitely seeing better results with the indica-based poly with some of the terpene profiles we talked about from lemon.

2:14:51Bryan Best Friend FarmsNow over to cherry, showing even the cherry brought in some cherry chem that has amazing resistance factor out here. Even tested some of the original cherry chem, sister to the brother, to let go long into now. And even through storm, everything, I haven't seen any vitritis. It had a septoria hit late. But not one piece of Botrytis yet on the whole row. So seeing some interesting stuff and then some, you know, talk about this northern region for the sugar spiking and dipping into this ripening period.

2:15:22Bryan Best Friend FarmsJust wanted to throw that out there.

2:15:26Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI think once you build up the intelligence in your soil and you start using that leaf from the forest and a lot of those inputs from the forest in your beds, and then you start, you know, doing more and more mulch in the aisles, in between your beds, sort of connecting the forest and you, and in the end you do start getting that underground connection going on where They will communicate with each other.

2:15:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey'll probably start transferring sugars and even trace minerals back and forth to each other. That's why I think it's really valuable mulching into the transitions out of your gardens so that you can get outside, let's say outside input into your garden. The more indigenous layering and build up you're doing, the more you're building up that soil rhizosphere intelligence. And then the atmosphere and rhizosphere combination through the gaseous exchanges, they start building the cells and everything to make that happen.

2:16:33Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo yeah, I mean, that's what you start getting when you build your land over and over. Like 10 years from now, your land will be Even next year, it'll be more. But you know what I mean is we're here for 16 summers now. So it's been 16 years of building the soil.

2:16:49SpeakerAnd it was actually really crazy this year. Each year that we're building our soil more and more, you know, we haven't really been utilizing teas. Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:17:30SpeakerWe saw it maybe in our later season, but like, it's amazing if you are seeing your farm or whatever your gardens as, you know, a whole system, not just when you walk into your garden, that your garden is the system, but that your garden is the center part or part of a whole system. Then the whole system helps take care of the garden and the plants. And that's really awesome to definitely know that the endophytic system of the ganja plants are just so full that the allocation of any type of pathogen in there is almost like nil.

2:18:12SpeakerAnd that's been pretty amazing to see. And that's definitely by bringing more and more intelligence of the zone around us into our gardens, rather than trying to create something different in our gardens. Let's just see what's around us. And that's why every garden should be different. And we shouldn't all talk about the same exact, you know, additions and techniques and, and yeah.

2:18:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut what we are starting to lean towards is making big ferments right now in the fall as we harvest everything and then tee in the mulch for the winter. So then we have this sort of recharge Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:19:21Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe keep covered for the winter. Then we use sprinklers inside of the greenhouse to just keep it really wet on the inside of the greenhouse so that the inside of the greenhouse can sort of have that cleanliness of water happening in it and break down.

2:19:46Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWade, did you have a hash event last weekend that you were involved in?

2:19:52SpeakerYes. And hello, everyone. Yeah, had a really wonderful gathering of about 12 folks, I think is how many folks came. And yeah, we got up to all kinds of fun things. One of the things that I wanted to show you all is a piece of dry sift. One of our local producers is going to be Selling old school, dry sift, solventless, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

2:20:24SpeakerAnyway, he's very proud of it. And he's old school enough that the... His marketing thing is going to be a little gold leaf lightning bolt on the pieces that come out. And I kind of like that because if you were smoking hash back in the 70s and had access to good Afghani or Pakistani, it often came with a seal on the plaque you'd get. Typically Preston, Gold Leaf and whatnot.

2:20:55SpeakerAnyway, he's of that era as am I. And we got into a fascinating conversation about hash. And I raised my hand earlier because I wanted to ask you all's opinion about this. The hash that came back in the 60s and 70s came from fields where male and female plants grew together. So all the females were fertilized. And it's my experience with analytical testing when you look at the cannabinoid profiles in cannabis that is seeded, it's significantly different than that same plant might have made where she sent Samia.

2:21:36SpeakerBut I really loved the hash that was coming into this country back in the 60s and 70s. And so I'm really wanting to throw open a conversation and hear some expert opinions on the fact that most of the hash that's available in the legal cannabis market today is made from sensimia. It's not made from fertilized females. And so it's different hash than what was happening back then.

2:22:06SpeakerAnd certainly we have higher cannabinoid content in the hashish that we're enjoying these days. But I just wondered what the thinking from a panel of informed folk is on that. The differences between the hash we have today that comes, you know, really beautiful hash. Yeah, last weekend I got very stoned. But, and I'm very stoned today as well. Thank you. Yeah, I'm just wondering, what's the opinion here among this crew?

2:22:42SpeakerWhat is, you know, there's a real difference there. And where do we want to take that conversation? That's all I got. Thank you for the moment. I'm sure I'll have more to say. You know, I don't have a lot of experience smoking hash that was made from male and female plants. But what I do have is in the last year or two, when I Came up with this hash hit product.

2:23:08SpeakerYou know, I'm so I'm like Sam, I'm just so used to like taking rocket ships to the moon, like just puffing this pure hash 60 to 80%. It's high terpene content. It's just this intense blast. And that's what I've loved. And I've been almost blindingly loving it without really paying attention to I don't smoke joints. I don't smoke weed. So what I found out was when I started the hash hit, which was really, you know, the basis of the idea was to create a product that would build a bridge for people who had no paraphernalia other than a lighter.

2:23:40SpeakerThey don't even roll joints. They buy pre-rolled joints. And I wanted to build a product that allowed people to kind of have a bridge over to hash and extract. And, you know, it's just a little tube, a little paper tube. It's got a little metal bowl with tiny little holes in it that we pack a 0.2 of a gram of hash into. And of course, right away, I knew I wasn't going to be able to pack full mouth hash into this thing because the hash would melt and plug these holes and you'd suck it into the tube.

2:24:05SpeakerSo I had, and as well, turning someone on who only smokes pre-rolled joints to hash, the best product is not the thing to do. It's just, it's too potent and it's not going to be the experience that they're looking for. So I kind of had to force my ego aside and smoke, you know, what most people on this panel would call mediocre hash. But what I found was, and I've learned this from smoking so many different, you know, people ask me all the time, do you prefer the torch and nail?

2:24:32SpeakerDo you prefer the electric nail? Do you like the puff codes? Do you like all these different things and, or vape pens or any of these things? And what I've found is as a cannabis lover, that there's a place for me to love those things. At different times in different places. And so what I had to do with these hash hits was I had to start R&Ding them and smoking them.

2:24:52SpeakerAnd I had to smoke hash of a non-melt quality in a couple of decades or whatever. And so here I am now going for an electric skateboard and pulling out a hash hit and burning as well. I hadn't burned in like 15 years or something. So What I did notice when I was able to put aside my judgment on, oh, it's not melting and it tastes a little burnt and I don't like it as much as I like this.

2:25:16SpeakerI just put all that aside. What I did find was that I love the lack of intensity in the high. It was almost like if it was a food metaphor, all I was doing was eating to be stuffed. And for the first time now, I was just eating a small amount just to be like, not completely satiated, but like, oh, that was a nice little treat. Like, I'm not, you know, I'm still present.

2:25:40SpeakerI'm not completely blasted out of my skull. Not that getting blasted out of my skull, you know, put limitations on me in any way. I'm a bit of an anomaly like that, as probably many of the people on the panel are. But what I found was I really enjoyed the lack of intensity of the high that I also had an appreciation for this, for these subtle nuances of the hash that I was now experiencing, that I knew that this is what these people that I built this product for were going to be experiencing.

2:26:10SpeakerThey were going to be able to, instead of smoke a joint with paper and glue and plant matter, I could get them over to hash and they could smoke this hash hit And have a nice experience without the paper and the glue and the cannabis, but have that nice experience that so many people have told me over the years when I've given them a dab, they're just like, I don't like that.

2:26:32SpeakerIt's way too intense. I'm blasted out of my skull. I just, you know, there's certain times that maybe that's not what you want. And there's lots of times where maybe that is what you want. So it was interesting from my perspective to remove myself from the bubble man way of thinking And smoke something that I've almost been judging harshly for the last 20 years. And I got to say, Wade, like there were times that I quite enjoyed it.

2:26:58SpeakerYou know, when I'm out on my electric skateboard, particularly with my son, I don't want to pull out my rig and all my gear and have a dab and then put it all away and put it in the backpack and clean the banger and do all of this stuff. But to just pull a tube out and hit it like two or three times and then put it back in the case and shut it up.

2:27:16SpeakerIt really was a lovely, subtle nuance. And I don't know if it's because I'm getting older or if I was just able to put my ego aside for a short period of time where, you know, we have to remember there's so many different enjoyable aspects of cannabis. And one of the things from my perspective that I've always been trapped in is that I, you know, not anymore as much, but for a long time, I thought that, you know, the best was this and that everyone needed the best and everyone should have the best.

2:27:45SpeakerBut what I'm learning is, is the best is what's best for you. And we should enjoy cannabis in all her glory, whether it's smoking a pin or joint or whether it's smoking some dry sifted single screen hash or whether it's smoking some six star full mouth hash. So that's my piece. That's what I have to say. And anyone else that wants to answer or Wade wants to reply?

2:28:10SpeakerIf it don't bubble, it ain't worth the trouble.

2:28:14Etienne FontanI remember. We didn't have that in the early 90s or in late 80s. So, I mean, I had access at times to, quote unquote, Afghani hashish that was black to brown that did have a gold seal on it. But it is definitely, I think Mojave stated as well that, you know, the hash that we're seeing today is, you know, is made from all of these newer genetics as well.

2:28:44Etienne FontanThank you so much for joining us.

2:29:00Etienne FontanSmoking that hash, I'd always sprinkle it or break it down and put it on top of something, you know, to just kind of add to it because of the nuances that it gave. It gave a depth that none of the cannabis that you had access to had because I think of the And I think that's the, that's the, you know, the CBN and all of that that are, you know, inherent as depending on how it was sift, but also it had a lot of impurities as well.

2:29:26Etienne FontanThey were packing it with, you know, wax, lots of vegetable matter, no seeds or anything like that, but the quality. You can, I mean, it's like when you go to Amsterdam, okay, right? You go to Amsterdam for the hash. You don't go for the flower, right? So go sit there and you smoke a temple ball there in Amsterdam. Now take that same temple ball and go vaporize it.

2:29:51Etienne FontanIt tastes like hand. It tastes like the essential oils. It tastes like all of that. Unfortunately, that comes from the hand rolling, et cetera, et cetera. So I think also by having things like bubble man's bags, sieving technology has better, because remember they used to use to use, right? You used to use particularly just one sieve, right? From the books that I have seen from the old book, Hashish, et cetera, they all tend to show just one particular screen As opposed to a series of screens until, you know, later.

2:30:25Etienne FontanBut I sent this invite specifically to Mojave because Mojave is also a master of the older hashish and understanding. So, Mojave, I'm going to defer and tap head to you because love you.

2:30:42SpeakerLove you too, man. Love you, Mojave. Hey there, Dave. Hey there, Sam. Yeah, I just came in at just the right time, man. I love this conversation about traditional hash. I think it's really important. You know, like Marcus, you're everyone like the average guy's just got a lighter that that idea. I just love the concept of like, let's really think about Who the consumer is because I think we've really driven the market and the industry so much because we're so deep into the science and the tech and but the average consumer just really needs us to kind of like provide them with what they need in the simplest and most available form and traditional hashish kind of really nailed that you know I mean They really kind of came to this like middle ground of potency and portability and stability.

2:31:38SpeakerAnd yeah, there it is. That's it, man. That's perfect. Give the people what they need. Yeah. But the other thing that I think is really interesting that I, that constantly.

2:31:48Dr Mark ScialdoneCan I ask Marcus a question quick? Yeah, please. How much is that retail for Marcus?

2:31:55SpeakerThis is the five tubes are a gram and it retails for around like 24 bucks, 25 bucks Canadian.

2:32:03Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, cool. Thank you. I'm sorry, Mohave.

2:32:06SpeakerNo, no problem, man. But the other thing I just one thing I'd love to hear from from the group here that constantly fascinates me about traditional hashish is The somewhat intentional degradation of the whole plant profile before it was pressed and the aging process and the drying in the sun and not just with hashish, with a lot of different traditional cannabis cultures with Malawi corn cobs and all these things people did to like take this beautiful, perfect plant that we're so desperately trying to like achieve this whole plant We're going to talk a little bit about the cannabis industry and the cannabis industry and the cannabis industry and the cannabis industry and the cannabis industry and the cannabis industry and the cannabis industry.

2:33:10SpeakerI mean from a few a few grams to uh really yeah like an ounce uh when when we used to do it uh here in Amsterdam we we would put in two or three grams sprinkled on top of the glowing coals and just keep doing that we could do it for like an hour or two and uh yeah just keep making Bong hit those two or three grams was for each person to make one big giant hubbly bubbly hit for themselves.

2:33:48SpeakerAnd I've seen ladies who absolutely could light a Afghan hubbly bubbly as good as any guy. It blew my mind. They could do it better than me, maybe.

2:34:04Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's the economics of a hubbly bubbly like? So Marcus was sort of making a paradigm of, you know, just, you know, the average guy who wants to consume or girl, whoever, you know, just somebody with a match or somebody with a lighter. I mean, now you need this hubbly bubbly thing. And how much hash are you using in a single sitting? Is it more than you have to spend for what Marcus is getting into?

2:34:30SpeakerBut we were smoking it with large amounts of people. So what did we smoke, Marcus? Maybe an ounce or two or three? Before? Oh, God, I'm sure that judging by the pale, pale, pale color of everyone's face, I would say that it was the right right around there for certain.

2:34:50SpeakerBut it's also that's, that's a culture of growers, you know, that's a culture of hash movers. And, you know, I remember when I was moving cannabis, I had pounds and pounds of free cannabis, my friends that were growing lots of cannabis always had pounds of cannabis. So it's, it's very different from You know, Joe Blow, who's just like, I'm not connected to this community. I'm not connected to this industry.

2:35:12SpeakerBut I still want to have an experience with cannabis. And so, you know, they're very different things. And there's very, there's very little pathways and bridges from the one to the other. And so obviously, you know, getting cannabis into legal stores here in Canada has opened that up. People have access to drinks and creams and All sorts of different things. And, you know, they don't know much better.

2:35:35SpeakerIt's actually fairly easy, Marcus, if you're willing to dedicate your time and life and energy towards perfection of cannabis. But few people are willing to do that, to be honest. That's true. And I think for us, what we want for cannabis is that, you know, I don't necessarily want everyone to do that. You know, what I want everyone

2:36:05SpeakerThey don't want you to know.

2:36:06Etienne FontanYeah.

2:36:10Dr Mark ScialdoneFucking conspiracy.

2:36:17SpeakerWhat I had said was, what I had said was I wanted people to have people that don't dedicate their lives. I want them to have access to cannabis over just alcohol. And so that's what this getting it into these stores and still fighting this good fight of You know, in Canada, we can't have edibles over 10 milligrams. There's all these limitations still. And, you know, I think someone wrote, I think it was Andrew D'Angelo wrote on Twitter the other day, if grocery stores had to get expensive licenses and all the vendors had to have super expensive licenses and you had to test rigorously, we would probably all starve in about three weeks.

2:37:01Dr Mark ScialdoneAdd tobacco to that list too, Marcus.

2:37:03SpeakerOr grow our own food.

2:37:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou could add forestry to the list because the foresters around here are able to have cops come and arrest the community to make sure they get to do their job. And it would be weird to think about having a cannabis farm, which is a life-saving herb farm, to have like that kind of ability to go around and be like, hey, these guys are growing weed around here.

2:37:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou understand? Don't do anything about it. But I think that Mojave, what you were talking about with different cultures in the world and different ways of ingesting cannabis is it's probably more than anything a microbial thing, a microbial connection, or it's creating some kind of a... Different cannabinoids through its transformation that's more bioavailable to them in their lifestyle. Or maybe it's because it lasts longer, three or four months down the road, and that's when they really need it.

2:38:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo even though it may not be the best Aaron Wiggins, T-Shirts, T-Shirts, T-Shirts, T-Shirts, T-Shirts, T-Shirts, T-Shirts, T-Shirts,

2:38:25Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAll right, so we're going to get started in just a few minutes.

2:38:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe have a freeze dryer and a press.

2:38:54SpeakerSorry. I also just noticed what Marcus was saying earlier that I was always trying to make Full Melt the most potent hash I could, but I also found that I was not smoking it at every time that I would want to consume. I'd save it for the end of the day. It was maybe just a little bit too potent for Looking at spreadsheets and doing business stuff and kind of realized it just didn't fit in my like daily life as well as kind of lower potency hash did.

2:39:27SpeakerJust closer to flower, you know. So I've been smoking a lot of like 30, 40% hash that really just, it feels really good. It might have a little sizzle to it, but it's not full melt by any stretch. And Just feels really good and it also keeps me so that I don't get so down regulated. So at the end of the day when everything is kind of eased and life is chilled and the sun went down, I can go and pull out that full melt and feel the full impact and it kind of gives me, you know, I feel That there's kind of an arc to every day to if you are consuming cannabis throughout the day that you want to keep it so you have so you can get high and so that you're functional.

2:40:07SpeakerAnd I think hash really did that. And I think that there's something also to just the Terpene cannabinoid ratio being different on lower potency hash. Terpene start to degrade and cannabinoids start to go up per volume that you're getting in your body. So you get a really different effect that way. And some terpenes might not be good terpenes. And I do think that some traditional cultures had that feeling as well over long-term use that they needed to kind of volatilize some terpenes to use large amounts.

2:40:43SpeakerAlso, Mojave, when you seed your crop, then you cut the terpenes in about half. You cut, you lower the cannabinoids also. You cut down the total yield of cannabinoids and terpenes. But you, it really affects the terpenes even stronger than the cannabinoids. I will say the way it fits into the chain of custody here in Canada, not sure if I'm frozen, probably. I'm not? Wow, everyone else is.

2:41:22Dr Mark ScialdoneOK, great.

2:41:24SpeakerThe chain of custody in Canada, when you make an exceptional product and you keep it at minus 20 degrees Celsius and then you send it out to the government, you know, warehouses and then to the stores, they don't keep it cold and it's drastically affected. So the more traditional hashes are less affected. In fact, they tend to almost get better with being at room temperature and aging a little bit, whereas like I put out beautiful roses, I put out a beautiful 65 percent like Four to five star hash.

2:41:55SpeakerIt was very light in color and it ended up like almost black after sitting in a warehouse with 32 degrees Celsius in Toronto for three days because there was a problem with the barcode. In our country, they're still, I use the metaphor, they're still shipping spinach warm. They don't have a cold supply chain to move these products. And when you make a specialized product like a high-end rosin or a full mouth bubble, It's very difficult to put it out into the world and have the people experience it the way you put it out.

2:42:31SpeakerWhereas these more traditional hashes, single screen hashes, they don't have that big of a degradation. The degradation isn't seen as a negative. For hashes like that, people want to preserve them. They want to keep them cold. They certainly aren't curing them. There's no curing high-end hashes anymore. There's just preserving them. Whereas with these traditional hash methods, they fit more into the current supply chain of everyone not keeping it cold.

2:42:59SpeakerWell, also too, when you press it, you have a tendency to lock it in place. I mean, you might squeeze out some of the smell by the act of pressing, but you also, it's more stabilized as a pressed piece than it is loose. But you and I, I know we both prefer loose resin.

2:43:25SpeakerYeah, absolutely. Even the resin that I'm putting into the hash hit, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:43:56SpeakerI'm kind of done after 25 years of preaching to the choir. I want to turn some new people on. And I know that I'm not going to turn them on with, you know, like a 85% THC rosin that I made from, you know, live hash or whatever. That's great. I want to still make that and make it available as always. But I also want to turn on this big group of people that are completely different.

2:44:19SpeakerThey don't have the experience with it at all. But I kind of want to move them away, you know, at least have an experience of moving away from just smoking pre-rolled joints, which are not considered to be the highest quality cannabis in the first place. It's ground, it's milled, it ages poorly compared to hash, especially in a cold, warm supply chain. And so it's, yeah, it took a long time to sort of figure out that.

2:44:43SpeakerMaybe what you need is a metered Puffco so they can get, you know, A vaporized small hit that's the equivalent of 10 or 20 milligrams. They're not going to spend $500 on that. They're going to spend 99 cents on this. This is the tool you have to make work for them. They all have this. This is what they have. This is what we need to supply for them, a product that they can... Oh, I don't smoke hash because I don't have a pipe.

2:45:11SpeakerI don't have a pipe. I can't smoke hash. Well, here's a hash hit. Give this a shot. It's just a tube. You can puff it with a lighter. And you can have that experience. And what I've found so far, you know, we did a great thing recently at North Shore Cannabis with the Future of Cannabis Project, London and all these great guys. They were pushing the envelope.

2:45:31SpeakerThey said, let's set up a tent outside in the parking lot and we'll have a little smoking session outside of this legal dispensary, which is pushing the envelope for sure. It's not really allowed. Although most of us were medical patients smoking in an environment that was legal to smoke in. But we, I met a woman, she's not on social media. She barely, you know, she's only buys pre-rolled joints and she sat with us for a bit and she said, well, I'll try your, your product or whatever.

2:45:56SpeakerShe actually went and bought some bubble man hash and I just gave her some hash hit too. And she sat there and she just put a little dab in and she, she smoked it with her lighter. She had a couple of puffs and I just said, you know, like what's, how, how was that in comparison to smoking joints? And she's like, well, it's definitely, Was a clearer high than I get from the joint and it was a little bit stronger and it was just neat to hear her perspective of being like, yeah, this was really nice.

2:46:21SpeakerIt was like one puff. I didn't have to smoke a whole joint. Sometimes the joints don't taste that good and the hash tasted really good. So, you know, one by one, if we help educate these people that aren't watching hash church, they're not on social media and Instagram and looking at all the photos, you kind of got to get out into the world. And I've said this before.

2:46:41SpeakerThe importance of allowing us to gather and... More truth that can't be heard.

2:46:54Etienne FontanDamn Illuminati.

2:46:56Dr Mark ScialdoneDid he say how many of those sticks are in that one package, ATN?

2:47:01Etienne FontanFive.

2:47:01Dr Mark ScialdoneFive. Five. So, Marcus, just for the uneducated user, so... Do each one of those represents kind of like a joint, so like one session, right? So it's five sessions, and you said it was $60, is that right?

2:47:18Speaker$25, and it's more than five sessions in a sense. I get about 10 rips from this. I get about 10 rips, and people who don't smoke very much get about 20. So you're getting between 50 and 100 pops. So it's pretty substantial.

2:47:44Dr Mark ScialdoneATN, that would sell in the U.S., wouldn't it?

2:47:48Etienne FontanWell, they've had companies that have had metered dosage vaporizers. Unfortunately, it just didn't catch on to people, or I don't think the efficacy or the expandability was there. But we had metered dosages back prior to Prop 64. I can't think of the exact name.

2:48:10SpeakerWere those vaporizers or were they nebulizers?

2:48:14Etienne FontanThey were vaporizers. The problem is that they were internalized batteries. So the batteries died depending on how long or the production because they were made in pre, they were not able to charge. So there were technical realities that were not necessarily expressive at the time, which I think currently there are because people were pushing for the latest in medical efficacy, right? So by having a small handheld metered Thank you.

2:48:45Etienne FontanThank you. Thank you.

2:49:11Etienne FontanThe Component Tree, etc.

2:49:13SpeakerDid you see nebulizers?

2:49:16Etienne FontanI have seen nebulizers. We did not see them sold to us.

2:49:21SpeakerYeah.

2:49:22Etienne FontanUnfortunately, no. That's what I'm saying.

2:49:24SpeakerYou need simple technology. A lighter. That's simple technology. That's what this was designed for. If people don't want batteries, things that are going to fail, they want to pull out their lighter and have a little talk. This is a specific group I'm talking about. I'm not talking about everyone by any means. But that's what this product was designed for. And it's been well received in Canada. And we're in the middle of making some deals to bring it down to, you know, Washington and Oregon and California and Massachusetts and Colorado and Nevada.

2:49:57SpeakerSo there's, there's deals on the table. Do you print a label on them that says perfect for law enforcement and correction officers? Absolutely. 100%.

2:50:11SpeakerNo, ATN made a good point as well about like actual volume. I think people really enjoy taking larger hits and feeling the full inhalation in their lungs expansion and holding it for a second and having even lower potency cannabis I think would be really helpful for that. Just like instead of down regulating yourself so you need to take more, just have lower potency so you're kind of at your threshold already.

2:50:37SpeakerAnd if you enjoy it, not to create, you know, addictive habits, but people do like to do this. And I find like with hash, it's kind of nice when you can just keep packing the bowl and smoking big bowls and same with flour. These are repackable too. You know, they are, they're repackable. Like I've repacked one tube like four or five times. If you like them correctly, they don't burn.

2:51:02SpeakerThey don't like degrade. Like, you know, ideally you're not going to smoke it forever, but It's a nice sort of free, I mean, hash, grams of hash are already 20 to $25 in Canada and the legal market. So I thought let's come in at the same price, but like provide the vessel for smoking the hash out of. And I think that, that, you know, convenience is the thing that we don't talk about too much in the, in the cannabis world.

2:51:25SpeakerYou know, we're like, Oh, what about a puff call? What about a measured dose? What about a $4,000 banger with a $10,000 pipe and a tour, a blowtorch and a,

2:51:34Etienne FontanDosist was the company I was trying to think of that had done a metered dose of small pen that was specifically toward medical patients. So D-O-S-I-S-T, if I recall.

2:51:49Dr Mark ScialdoneA-A-A-A-18, if you had to guess, what would that pack that Marcus showed us retail for at BPG?

2:52:02Etienne FontanIt's five specific, is it metered dosages?

2:52:07SpeakerThey're not metered, it's a .2 of a gram. So it's not metered in the sense that you could smoke half of it in three puffs, or you could smoke one-tenth of it in one puff.

2:52:19Etienne FontanYeah, I mean that could be... It's a gram a hash. $10 to $20 retail, depending, you know, if, you know, it's all on the amount of cannabis and, of course, in the packaging, but from the distributor, et cetera, depending on, you know, manufacturing and cost. I mean, it could be $25 to $30. I don't know. But, you know, what do you sell them for in Canadian?

2:52:42Etienne FontanYou muted yourself, Mark.

2:52:46Speaker$25. $25. I think in the U.S. it would be $20 bucks. $18 to $20 US.

2:52:50Etienne Fontan$20 to $25. Yeah, that sounds about right.

2:52:55Etienne FontanAnd people are looking for that. They're looking for something that's specific, that's an easier dosage. They don't like having to buy a big cone and then having to burn a little of it because, as you know, the flavors, taste, everything about it really changes from the tars and everything that's internal. So if you are looking for smaller dosage things, again, it's more that are medical specific as opposed to the recreational, just to clarify.

2:53:21Dr Mark ScialdoneIsn't it traditional to ATN that, you know, pre-rolls are kind of like the run of the litter. It's just kind of like the shake at the bottom, you know, after you've packaged up a bunch of stuff. It's basically what, you know.

2:53:33Etienne FontanIt can be that way if you're specifically doing it. The biggest problem that I want to say to every manufacturer out there is stop using cones. Just stop. It doesn't work. You're all trying to cram too much stuff into these cones and Whereas the most successful ones are people like Connected that do a straight cigarette style one that burns evenly. Whereas the majority of cones that are pre-made, I think they granulate it too much.

2:54:02Etienne FontanWhat happens is the last inch, an inch and a half, it clogs up and it's useless. And you're wasting a gram to two grams of flour outright. So I'm imploring every manufacturer who makes cones, stop. Thank you for watching.

2:54:35Etienne FontanYour actual pre-rolls. So please just stop. You're insulting us all. You're doing it wrong. And somebody get out there like connected and show them how to do it right because you're wasting consumers time. You're wasting their money and you're pissing off new consumers who are like, hey, I got a cone and they got, oh, I'm halfway. So who's got a bowl? Fuck off with that shit and fucking grow some real fucking pot and put it in your fucking cone.

2:55:01Etienne FontanI mean, your actual joints and stop with the cones unless they're twice the size because it's just gumming up way too much because the quality of flour is higher than what it used to be. And if you're putting resin in it, you absolutely have to stop with the coning. So I'll get off my soapbox now, but all you cone making motherfuckers, fuck you, go to hell. I fucking hate you all.

2:55:24Dr Mark ScialdoneSave the cones for the ice cream, right?

2:55:29SpeakerBut yeah, what about the gold cones? Those are the best, aren't they? The gold cones?

2:55:36Etienne FontanAnd they can fuck off with the gold codes too. Sorry, I hate to be so adamantly passionate about my hate and vitriol for them, but I buy every single one that comes through BPG and I try them all. I roll my own even. I use a machine that actually rolls them evenly. So they exist, okay, including that you can roll, but... Manufacturers who are putting out these products are absolutely crap.

2:56:03Etienne FontanThey're too tightly packed and you're just turning off consumers to a product that when I was in Amsterdam a decade ago plus they were doing it right. They were using cones but they were packing them properly. You're packing them way too tight and I've been to many different manufacturing facilities and watched your people do it as they sit there with little tools to pack and tamp that stuff down.

2:56:28Etienne FontanYou're doing it wrong. Go back to how we used to roll and roll them evenly across the board. Am I wrong here, people? Is my head up my ass here?

2:56:37Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're absolutely right, but I want to make one notable exception, which is, and I'll point out to my friend Josh here on the upper right, the Canagar that I got in the teepee was the Canagar that changed my life. So other than yes, I'm rolling regular joints. I'm totally with you, ATN. If they look like a cigarette, that's cool. But the Canagar, I think, for the connoisseur is kind of in a separate category that it's okay to be nice and big and obnoxiously big.

2:57:10SpeakerWell, we met Collinsworth for sharing, and people don't share nearly as much as they used to. COVID changed that, and it's like the little .3 dog walkers are really popular because it's like I can go smoke it and put it out, and I don't have to hide it. Stinky thing. And it tastes like shit if you fire it up again, you know. So, you know, I know cones are a bummer.

2:57:31SpeakerAnd yeah, it's a mess. It's crazy. You know, the whole pre-roll packaged goods thing is just nuts, you know, and all the infused pre-rolls and stuff. Everyone's trying to To make a better pre-roll, but really it's all ATN, it's it, it's about, it's just like cigarettes, cigarettes figured out, like here's a standard form that every single cigarette company adopted like overnight because the delivery system was just better and more convenient and everyone.

2:58:03Etienne FontanEven the government does it. They send their actual joints out from a Paul Maul equally rolled machine. And guess what? They burn evenly.

2:58:14SpeakerThey're actually rolled at the El Soleil's laboratory facilities. And they use a Bonzac cigarette rolling machine to do it.

2:58:27Etienne FontanAnd there we go. Well, there's no doubt that they're popular. I visited their facility. And there's an old High Times article, I think from 78, that shows them actually doing it too. It shows the machine.

2:58:41SpeakerOne of those old cigarette machines. There's a company here in Canada called Ready Can that does it with this cigarette rolling technology from the tobacco industry. And they just sold that company for like $900 million.

2:58:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThere's a good amount of small batch farmers I'm seeing now with little glass tip straight pre-rolls and things that are really nice looking and then some infused and all that. And so I'm starting to see that. And I agree with you that, you know, an evenly rolled and a thicker joint. We're fully over and it allows the resin to kind of caramelize and burn on itself as it's burning through.

2:59:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd really, it should be getting better as it's going down to the bottom rather than getting hotter and more packed in and stuff. So, yeah, maybe it's like heads up to Futurola and all the different rolling companies out there that are, you know, really giving people these as options because I think people would start taking the option bigger.

2:59:44Etienne FontanThey're not giving you an option. That's the problem is that you're only dealt cones. You go to raw and everything else. I just saw today they even made an actual little raw, a cone roller attachment that goes on your key chain so you can roll a nice little tight joint and can perpetuate this bullshit. So, sorry, it's just my anger.

3:00:04Dr Mark ScialdoneDon't dump on the Canagars.

3:00:07Etienne FontanI'm not dumping on the Canagars. I'm buying the Canagars.

3:00:10Dr Mark ScialdoneContinue to make those products, Josh. That Canagar that you gave me at the, at the, at the teepee when I met, when I met, I brought that to Delfest, the Bluegrass Festival, I think a year later and changed a lot of people's worlds with that single So thank you.

3:00:29Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI totally, yeah, big up to you and big up to the makers out there. And that's, that's what's up, you know, and you remember that Canagar, right? Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, for sure. It was spectacular. Definitely.

3:00:42Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat is it with the Canagar itself? So it's actually using leaves on leaf.

3:00:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then also often, you know, adding a lot of rosin and bubble hash to the inside and then having like a stick on the inside. So, you know, the chances, you know, a lot of those things can be, you know, have an ounce of hash inside of them as well as.

3:01:07Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, it burns so slowly, unlike just like a fatty. Like if we had a fatty the same size, the fatty would have been gone an hour ago. That thing took. About seriously, about two hours to burn. I shared it down at a pit right in front of Del McCurry's band playing up there. And there's, you can just see it. That's clouds.

3:01:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt looks good with the disco ball too, because it gets the lights going and everything. So I'm sure it was much appreciated in the crowd. That's sweet.

3:01:42Dr Mark ScialdoneCanagar producers, please keep those coming. The people who like those. I mean, I think it's a different product than just a, A joint, if you will, or just a fatty or something. I have to say that I do love still rolling my own. And I still love the idea of putting two papers together and making even what we used to call in Grateful Dead Tour a fatty, right?

3:02:11Dr Mark ScialdoneSo when you light a fatty, it's not like lighting that nail cigarette because you light a fatty. It's like, whoa, man, that fucking thing just smokes.

3:02:24SpeakerHave you guys seen the perfect pre-rolls, perfect brand pre-rolls that Michael Backus works with? They're pretty far out. The one thing that's really cool about them is they have two filters on either side, a filter on either side. So the concept is that you can snap it right down the middle and share it. Or you can cut one filter off and have a full one gram joint to yourself.

3:02:48SpeakerIt's just a silly little idea. And the funny thing is he came over to our facility in LA a couple of years ago, just like, hey, I just rolled this up just for us to share. And he cut it. And I was like, dude, that's a product. No one's done that. I mean, it's silly and weird, but it's a total product. And there really has an interest in infusion technology.

3:03:10SpeakerSo the flower actually does stay. The terpene profile actually lasts a lot longer. And it's not just dumping a bunch of extract in there. It's pretty interesting. As far as pre-rolls, that's one company that's done something different.

3:03:27Dr Mark ScialdoneI just saw your company again. Perfect. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah.

3:03:34SpeakerYeah, they do. They do pre-rolls and they do flower like, like, So, it's blended or I don't know if it's all blended, but it's might be single variety, but it's loose. So, it's broken up loose flour in a jar for people to roll joints or pack bowls. It's another one of these things of like everything that we do and we engage the flour so much, we engage the product so much, but there's a lot of, there's a lot involved and maybe people just don't want to be that involved or can't be that involved.

3:04:05SpeakerCan't take the time to crumble up or get stinky hands and go back to work and be scrutinized or something. So they make a product where it's like just loose flour. It's really interesting. Mojave, we all know only God is perfect.

3:04:24SpeakerThat is the atheist. The one high.

3:04:27Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThanks, everyone. I want to show appreciation, acknowledgement, and love to all you and everyone in the crowd. We're going to take off for the day. It's been a wonderful conversation. It's beautiful to see you all. We're going to be heading over the border soon here and doing some events for the first time, heading down to Michigan for the Organic Cup, doing some private event beforehand, going down to Heal Thyself.

3:04:56Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd Mendocino with the humble local Joey and Tamara down there. And doing another hive gathering at Heartwood. So we're looking forward to gathering with everyone. We're getting ceremonial and sacred and giving hugs and love and sharing doobies and doing what humans do. We're really excited for that. And thanks Tara Lee. She was just here visiting us. We had a really good time. Really special times. Being able to see her again was really special.

3:05:33Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThanks, everyone. Have a great day. Thanks for making the world a better place and bringing some magic into your world. We love and appreciate you.

3:05:43SpeakerThanks, Dragonflyers. I think that's a perfect time to close her down. We've been going for three full hours. It was nice to share time with all of you. I'll definitely try to do it again next week and send out the emails and get everyone invited and have more of a wonderful conversation. Thanks for popping in last minute, Mojave. That was awesome. Brian and Dr. Mark and Skunk Man Sam and Etienne, of course, Wade Laster, Connor, the Terp Wizard who was here but had to leave as well as Colin.

3:06:15SpeakerAnd anyone else that I'm forgetting, you know, thanks to all the people who are watching. I think we had about 280 people watching live today. There's still 262 of them in there right now. So obviously you guys are a huge part of this. I try to engage in the conversation in the chat room and I implore the rest of the people on the panel, if you can open up the YouTube channel and, you know, at Cannes always in there, there's a nice live chat and there's a lot of good topics and conversations.

3:06:41SpeakerThe more we engage the audience and the people that we're talking to, I think it just makes it a better full circle experience. So, you know, as always, even though I was talking about the hash chips, I will end it with may the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later. And peace out, everybody. Have a great day.