Cannabis and Cancer: A Personal Journey

0:00SpeakerAnd we'll give a big old welcome.

0:08SpeakerYes, we will.

0:16SpeakerAll right, we're getting close. Fingers crossed. Always nervous while waiting to go live.

0:24SpeakerCome on. How long can you take?

0:33SpeakerAll right, here we go. Redirecting.

0:44SpeakerThere we go. There we go. I believe, I believe. What's going on here? Let's let everyone in and we'll figure it out together.

1:03SpeakerWelcome, everybody. Just trying to organize the disarray of going live here for the first time in almost over a year. Trying to see if it's going to go live on a new page or if it will be live on the same page. I'm trying to figure this out right now.

1:26SpeakerCan you guys hear me? Yes. Okay, okay. Welcome, everybody. Hash Church 5.0 Episode 1 with Wade Lassner in the house. Dude, good to see you, man. Really good to see you. Thank you, Marcus. Yeah, man. It was nice to see your email come in being like, hell yeah, I'll join for an episode of Hash Church. It's been too long. The funny things that come and go in our lives when we sort of Don't even realize we miss them, but this is one of them for me, man.

2:01SpeakerI miss hanging out and seeing you on a weekly basis.

2:07SpeakerYes, let's do it some more. Absolutely. I'm trying to figure out if it went live on the same page that I created or if it created a new page. Kind of having a hard time figuring that out. You're not live on YouTube. What do you mean? Or I don't see you live on YouTube. Yeah, we're live on YouTube. Really? I can send you the link if you like.

2:35SpeakerHey, welcome. I have it in front of me. I guess maybe I'll try refreshing it. It went to a different page, Thomas. It does it to me all the time. I go to open live on Zoom and it opens a completely different YouTube. So I'm a little bit not doing it right. You'll have to help me for next week. And in the meantime, we're live on YouTube.

2:58SpeakerI can see it. There's 59 people watching right now. And all I usually do is I go into the one that's live and then I go into the one that's not live and I just send the link a bunch of times. But it seems like a ton of people, they must have gotten the notification or something. Gotcha. I see. All right, well, welcome. Ryan's in the house, Papa Sif.

3:20SpeakerThat's my homie in Michigan. He runs the Bubble Man brand in the lab and makes all of our live hash rosin and hash hits and traditional hash and all the products that we're making over in Michigan. And Ryan really, yeah, he's been indispensable help over there. And he helped where I thought, well, I'm going to invite him onto Hash Church, create some new panelists. So welcome to you, homie.

3:44SpeakerGood to see you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, of course, man, of course. And welcome to Mojave as well. Mr. Richmond's in the house. Good to see you, dude. Good to be here, man. Yeah, thanks for having me. Absolutely. A little rusty, but yeah, no, Thomas, you'll have to help me. I did all the key and the this and the that, and I must have done it wrong, and that's why it didn't go live on the actual...

4:11SpeakerNo worries. Yeah, we'll be out to help. I can help you with that. No worries. I also edited it right at the end of the day and changed the, I added episode one and that might have also glitched it out. But for whatever reason, it shows that we're live. We've got 75 people watching us at 9.03. So here we are. It feels good, man. I know Skunk Man Sam's going to be popping in.

4:35SpeakerI think Dr. Mark Said he would be making an appearance, so I'll just hit up Sam real quick, make sure he's all good. Etienne is out of town, so we won't be seeing him today, but hopefully we see him in the next, oh, in the next couple of weeks or so, if we keep going here. Tell you, the first time I started Hash Church, I think I did 162 Sundays in a row, and that was absolutely insane.

5:03SpeakerAround 140, my wife sort of pulled me aside, and she's like, What's wrong with you? Like, what are you doing? It was so stressful. Trying to make sure the episode was perfect, that the panelists would show up, that everything would start on time, that I would have internet, depending on the country that I was in. And now it's just much more relaxed. So I'm happy to just catch up with you guys, you know, get a little update from everyone in regards to how you're doing and what you've been up to.

5:34SpeakerAnd, you know, it's been a long year and I'm sure life has It's been a hard year, not just a long year. It's been one of those years that's kind of like, whew, jeez, get that one under our belt and move on to the next year if we can.

5:49SpeakerBizarro world, man. What's that? It's been a bizarro world year. It has been a bizarro world year, you know? Anyone that's eaten enough psychedelics can know that the energy in the world right now is... It's very intense. It's almost like you can just feel something going on underneath in a way that, hey, Dr. Mark. Hey, what's up? How are you? Dude, how are you doing, man? Oh, that's it.

6:22SpeakerHe's like, I'm out of here. I thought this was a fake show. It'll be back. All right, so audio is good. Not sure, Marcus says the usual mic settings. Is the audio okay? Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, we're good. Fall before the storm. Oh, it did just say something went wrong here. Let me see what's going on. Host on YouTube live. Something went wrong. Of course something went wrong.

6:54SpeakerI think we lost our, oh no, no, we're good. This one's live, this one's not.

7:01Dr Mark ScialdoneWelcome back, Dr. Mark. I thought he just popped in, in and out.

7:09SpeakerI'll tell you, if I ever took a hit and the smoke came out the color of the smoke on Thomas's room right now, I would absolutely, I'd be like, what the fuck is this?

7:20Dr Mark ScialdoneI obviously clicked on the wrong window. Hey, welcome back, I guess.

7:25SpeakerYes, welcome back, Dr. Mark. I thought maybe you were like, this isn't a fish show. I'm out of here. I'm going to hit a nice little dab just to... Hey, William, how are you?

7:39Dr Mark ScialdoneBobby, Ryan, what's going on? Where's Sam? I don't see Sam.

7:48SpeakerSam, I just sent him the link on Facebook two minutes ago. He definitely said he was going to be here, so we'll have to give him time.

8:01SpeakerWhy did it go off again? Okay, there we go. I got to close that. Make sure we're live. Make sure we got the chat. And load up a bowl and start some conversations with you guys because it has been way too long. Yeah, it's been... It's been a long year, as we were mentioning a little earlier on. I was thinking maybe, Wade, it would be great to get an update from you, see what you've been up to in the last year, and catch us all up, man.

8:41SpeakerWell, glad to bring you all in, but I'll start by saying there's not been a lot of warm, fuzzy, friendly groups. Cancer is a bear, to keep it as simple as possible. I've been dealing with multiple myeloma. I don't know if you all know that, but that's my situation. I was first diagnosed in the fall of 2020. At that point, according to my medical records, I had innumerable, this is a great phrase, innumerable lytic fractures, bone fractures, From my skull, my jaw, my neck, my chest, my rib cage, my pelvis, and my right femur, innumerable lytic fractures, where the bone gets eroded by the cancer.

9:40SpeakerTo make it really short, the real issue here is pain. And I'm here to testify for the beauty and efficacy of cannabis in the relief of pain.

9:54SpeakerMy oncologist asked me to stop smoking. Wow. That was a big deal. And I did. Now I make tinctures. Hi, Potency Tinctures for myself.

10:11SpeakerAnd I eat raisin and hashish. I found that there's really lovely tastes available by consumption into the gut versus inhaling. So that's a whole conversation.

10:28SpeakerAt the moment, I've just started chemotherapy again after being off of it since the marriage.

10:39SpeakerI suppose one of the things that I'm really looking forward to chatting with you all about is I came across a paper in a journal called Biofactors. And they looked at three different multiple myeloma cell lines and compared those multiple myeloma cell lines to how did they react to quote unquote minor phytocannabinoids. And it turns out, hello, CBG, as in golf, and CBN, as in Nancy, have really remarkable effects at slowing the growth of multiple myeloma cells, and at the right dose, triggering cell death in multiple myeloma.

11:24SpeakerI came across that paper on Monday of this past week, and I've already, I put out the word here in Nevada County in California, asking for help. Specifically asking some of the manufacturers who had access to CDG material and or CDN. CDG, I'm really grateful. One of our local manufacturers supplied me with almost 30 grams of the high potency 50 plus percent oil of CDG. Still working on trying to get some CDN.

12:04SpeakerAnd I got to say, I feel really blessed to live in Nevada County, California. It's a small county. We've got about 100,000 people altogether in this county. But somehow or another, this is one of the places where organic agriculture, particularly in the cannabis realm, took root back in the 60s and 70s.

12:33SpeakerOne of the fellows I know here locally has been into minor quote-unquote phyto-cannabinoids long enough that he bought the web domain name cdboil.com back in the day for $8 and change. That's how long he's been in it. I want to name names. I mean, Vital Ice Hotel Extracts, Blaska, I could go on and on, Emerald Bay Extracts. All of these people are making high potency oils and providing them, not just to me, but to any person who shows up at our local dispensary with a cannabis recommendation.

13:21SpeakerWe have a program to give these products at no cost Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

13:55SpeakerI will note that for most people, multiple myeloma is not a fatal condition. It's other things that happen as a result of treating the condition that usually results in death. So I'm here for years to come. Let's keep doing hash search. I love talking about hash. I used to love smoking it. Now I love eating it. I'm really looking forward to hearing what all of y'all are up to and what's been going on.

14:25SpeakerAnd yeah, I'll go back to listening. Much love. And thank you, Marcus. Really enjoy this opportunity to see some of the people I respect so much in this work. Thank you. Yeah, agreed, Wade. And great to hear from you. And listen, if there's a If you want to share any of those names in the chat, I can put them in the description. So maybe some people who are living in your area, hear what you say, and rather than, you know, enable to shorten the ability for them to get to A to B, we can remove sort of all of the middle things by just putting up a few links for companies.

15:01SpeakerWe're not trying to blow companies up that are doing good work and, and donating, but I would also say perhaps for some of the growers that may be watching as well, If we put up these links, you know, maybe they won't just be people reaching out who need oil, but there'll be people reaching out who have biomass to donate for companies like this that can give that oil away.

15:21SpeakerBecause without that aspect, it's really just out of pocket for the one group. And what a great thing to be a part of, you know, gifting out oil to people who are really in the need. You know, a lot of people are looking to fill a hole in their soul right now, and it doesn't happen with new Nikes. And Bugatti Veyrons. It happens by serving the people.

15:41SpeakerAnd when you can do that, you will feel, you know, God or whatever it is you believe in in your heart by serving others. And I always feel it when Wade comes in and shares with us. It's so crazy to think 10 years ago he was sharing about the Harlequin and about like creating and doing this work himself. Giving away biomass. And now he's on the receiving end of it in this beautiful sort of karmic retribution where it just came right around and said, hey, homie, like you took care of so many people for so long.

16:14SpeakerNow there's going to be people taking care of you. So it's really quite powerful to see. Welcome to Best Friend Farms who just popped in. You know, we're just chilling out. You probably caught the end of Wade's update. He's been fighting the good fight against cancer.

16:34Bryan Best Friend FarmsLooking good.

16:36SpeakerYeah, and looking good, man. And, you know, didn't even skip a beat. Doctor told him he couldn't smoke anymore. He's like, he's gobbling it down, which I will say, I have never seen a human being eat more cannabinoids in my life than Thomas. Thank you for watching. See you next time.

17:10SpeakerThis gets into the chemistry and the science of the body. Obviously, Mark, we're all metabolizing at different rates. How is it that someone can get destroyed by two milligrams and another person can take 2400 milligrams and totally be cognitive talking to me like right sitting next to me like, hey, man, you want a bagel? CBD. CBD. No, that was THC. THC is what he was. He was consuming.

17:38SpeakerI just... Yeah, it's mind-blowing to think that someone could consume that much. I don't mind eating it myself, but I'm kind of like, once I get into the 30 milligram range, that's like, I'm like, oh, I'm like more high than I want to be. You know, I'm good with 10 and 20. I don't know about the rest of the group here. I've probably got some hundos in the mix, but oh yeah.

18:00Dr Mark ScialdoneIt depends how bioavailable it is, right? I mean.

18:03SpeakerBut does it not also depend on how you metabolize in your liver?

18:09Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, Yeah, yeah, it depends on a lot of things, you know, like, is it, so if it's, if it's THCA, right, it's one thing, if it's THC, it's another, right? But, yeah, I think that, like, if you're just eating hash, if just the, a lot of it is just going to be sort of, you know, making it down to the gut, yeah, it's probably entering in the system and more in the stomach than in the liver, but I don't know, I mean, I think it's bioavailable, you know, when it gets metabolized.

18:42Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd yeah, I mean, that's probably helping him in great ways. And, you know, again, this is like the full, what did we call this? The entourage effect or ensemble effect or whatever. The fact that CBN and CBG both play a role. So you'd imagine that, you know, you could almost dial that in to a specific oil that's got a specific amount of CBN. That's what I was going to ask you, Wade.

19:10Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, like what's effective in terms of CBN concentration in the products that you're taking? I mean, is it highly concentrated CBN? Because actually there is CBN isolate, but I think it's completely synthetic that's out there. But there's also just tied, you know, in concentration CBN oil. Are you doing more of a full spectrum or isolate treatment?

19:36SpeakerI have not had any success so far in sourcing CDN, particularly at the quantities of milligrams that I'm hoping to be able to access.

19:54SpeakerYeah, I have access to abundant CDG, still working on CDN. And from my point of view, one of the things I think that's most interesting is The cannabinoids that are produced very early in the plant's life cycle and the degradation products at the end of the plant's life cycle show the greatest promise for this particular cancer. And it's intriguing to me that As a consumer of cannabis, I tended to avoid CDG and CDM.

20:25SpeakerOf course, I didn't see any anti-cancer effects from my cannabis consumption. Go ahead.

20:36Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so there's something that's going on to make sort of so-called compliant distillates. So when they... There's still, you know, quote unquote hemp, like it's like a 21 variety or better or something like that. And you still have enough THC in the distillate. What they've been doing is if you heat up that distillate and bubble air through it, the air will oxidize the THC and convert it over to CBN such that you can actually make A quote unquote compliable oil that's below the 0.3 threshold.

21:18Dr Mark ScialdoneBecause a lot of these distillates are like a couple percent in THC. And even you could do this at the crude level too. So just like a crude ethanol extract, if you bubble air through while you're heating the oil, the air will convert the THC into CBN. So you might be able to do that on your own and not have to rely on somebody else providing it to you.

21:46SpeakerThank you, Mark. That sounds like a plan. I will be talking to some of our local manufacturers. Thank you.

21:53Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, they do that to make so-called, well, they call it remediated oil or what's called tea-free oil or tea-free distillate. And the way that they're pulling off that stunt, it is, yeah, in that process, you don't lose a lot of your CBD. You could Eventually start converting some of your CBD, but you could sort of finesse that process to basically remove THC or get it below the detectable limit or at least below the 0.3 limit and make it what's called T-free.

22:28Dr Mark ScialdoneSo when you see that category of T-free distillate or T-free crude, that's probably how they did it, which is this remediation process by using just simply air.

22:41SpeakerYeah, we have it available in Canada by the leader. CBN is fairly pure, but it's expensive. It's like the last time I checked, I think it was $11,000 a liter, whereas like distillate, like THC or CBD is, I want to say like below $2, like maybe under a dollar even, somewhere around there anyway, per gram.

23:01Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so you could buy CBN isolate for cheaper than that. Right now, CBN isolate down here is somewhere like about $3,000 or $4,000 a kilo.

23:11SpeakerThis will be from a plant like derived right from cannabis for sure. I don't think that Canada allows any type of synthesis on cannabinoids.

23:20Dr Mark ScialdoneThis is completely synthetic, Mark.

23:22SpeakerYeah, no, I knew that's why I mentioned it. I figured you were talking about the synthetic. I couldn't, I was actually talking with someone yesterday and they said it was $1,200 in Canada for distillate that was 92% THC. I was kind of mind blown if I had a dollar to it. I was like, well, what's the point of growing? You can buy it at that cost. And I wanted to ask Wade, are you taking everything orally?

23:50SpeakerYes. Yeah. Okay. My cousin, 18 months ago, was diagnosed with stage four liver cancer and he can't take anything orally, just he gets way too high and he can't really smoke, but he's been taking it suppository and it's pretty incredible. They just did like, they tested all his tumors, they did x-rays and in three months they haven't had any growth at all. And he's been just taking, yeah, it's pretty incredible.

24:19SpeakerAnd, you know, he was told he only had six months to live, 18 months ago. And he was, he came and actually stayed with me. And he's been just like taking so much oil. And he goes in a hyperbaric chamber, I think it's called, with pressure. And it seems like the combination of these two, it's pretty incredible that he's still with us. Anyways, I just wanted to say that.

24:40SpeakerRight on, man. Cheers. Yeah, thanks, Thomas. Always good to share the like-minded stories. Listen, I wanted to introduce Ryan. Ryan's going to kind of give us a little lowdown. Ryan's kind of like, you know, how do I put it? Just like one of these younger gung-ho guys that you see yourself in, like his passion and his excitement about hash. I couldn't have my brand in a place like Michigan without him.

25:09SpeakerRyan or someone exactly like them, you know, someone that has the passion, someone that's been like, I watched the hash churches, I studied what you guys are doing. I listened to every video. I've learned from my own mistakes. I went off and did my own mistakes and created this knowledge that, uh, you know, you just, obviously we need great growers and we need a variety of things to do a brand, but really without, uh, without a guy like Ryan, the brand wouldn't, uh, wouldn't be going anywhere fast.

25:36SpeakerSo Why don't you introduce yourself, homie, and tell us about a little bit about you, like where you came from, how you got into this, and now a little bit about what we're doing together. Yeah, my name is Ryan. I'm a hatch maker in Southeast Michigan. I'm from Cleveland, Ohio, and I moved to Michigan. I've been up here on and off for five years now.

26:03SpeakerSo yeah, Marcus reached out last May and we've been teaming up, bringing the Bubble Man brand here and it's been a lot of fun.

26:15SpeakerYeah, lately we're working on some brick hash and some hash hits that we're about to bring to the market. And then we also have two flights of rosin pens, like 70, 90, 120 of two flavors of strawberry lemonade and Queen of Diamonds. And then we did some more full spectrum pens too. Yeah, dude. Put you on the spot there, hey? Sometimes it's not so easy just jumping on the old hot seat and hashtags and be like, all right, tell us about yourself, man.

26:45SpeakerYeah. I'm trying to figure out how to change it to just one person's screen when they're talking. I've actually forgotten this. You have a update for me, Thomas? Yeah, in the top right, we're in the view. Speaker. Thank you, brother. Look at that. Now it's you with the LED light. Appreciate that. Appreciate that. Yeah. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, Thomas? I don't think you've ever been on Hash Church.

27:12SpeakerPeople have obviously seen your show on my channel. But yeah, Thomas and I have been working together for a little while now. I don't know if it's been six months or even if it's almost a year. But yeah, he's got the Grandmaster LEDs, the UVC lights, the whole variety of insanity. Thomas is kind of like a mad scientist savant when it comes to producing and creating light that if you tell him he can't do it, he will absolutely fucking do it.

27:41SpeakerYeah, well, my team kind of gets mad at me that sometimes because, well, just even the light that you're looking at, we redesigned it three different times or, well, you know, when doing something, you have a completed product and then all of a sudden you see a better way of doing it. So I've been in the lighting business for seven and a half years. I've been growing indoors since 96, been growing outdoors since 94.

28:05SpeakerIt's a really big passion for me and to me. Like I obviously I got involved in this originally to make money, but then just obviously fell in love with the plant. We actually had like a really big breakthrough. Well, there's a couple of things that I really wanted to talk about. I think the biggest breakthrough is the UVC and using it as a pesticide because, well, in all my years of growing, we've broken the rules by just using a little small amount of light with a small amount of wattage for a short period of time.

28:37SpeakerAnd we've developed a way to be able to completely just eliminate the need for predator bugs and pesticides when you're to deal with thrips and other pests that we're still working on. So it's been really, really exciting. Another thing that's like just absolutely huge that's changing, growing for everybody is under canopy lighting. And it's been highly debated for years. And I actually... You know, two years ago had designed an inter canopy light where it kind of goes in the middle of your canopy and it's kind of like a low wattage.

29:09SpeakerAnd then we just did not see really good data or anything. And then I saw other clients of ours using under canopy lighting and having stupid results. When I say stupid, we're talking 30 to 40% gains.

29:23SpeakerAnd not only that, at the same time, eliminating all your bee buds and all the color differences. So it's pretty exciting. And a lot of people have been making this argument about, oh, it doesn't line up with the science. Well, the science of it is the light is actually going through the leaves and being caught. It's the only thing that makes sense because we've just seen incredible results.

29:47SpeakerSo that's one thing that's just we've just kind of finished developing too and just kind of exciting seeing what's been happening with the because it's really changing the game and just it's so hard like a Like I've been seeing for some of the people, like depending on where you're producing, I know, well, Michigan, we just set up shop in Michigan ourself. And it's because it's so much cheaper to operate and real estate is so much cheaper over there than California.

30:11SpeakerLike when I was seeing the cost of what people are having to deal with and operating in California, it is insane. Like I thought we had it bad here in Canada. Like the California rent and just the cost of everything. It is insane. Seriously, it's so many of my friends that have, I mean, I'm sure Mohave and Wade have a bigger list, but just lots of people dropped out, dropped off.

30:39SpeakerThey just were like, fuck, I can't fuck with this. This is absolutely impossible. Yeah, like seeing people paying $37,000 a month rent at like uncertain places and these $20,000 bills, like it just, I just, it would be so hard to operate. I just can only imagine just seeing that. And some of the red tape, like Canada has some really disgustingly bad red tape, especially like, but it's gotten easier to do things.

31:08SpeakerLike it's so much easier to become. It has. Yeah, like five years ago, becoming an LP took like millions of dollars. Like you need to almost need like $5 million liquid cash five years ago to do it. You did. Yeah. Absolutely did. We rented our facility. My partners rented the facility before they brought me onto the company. And I was like, I came and looked at the facility.

31:31SpeakerIt's 45,000 square feet, three stores. It's just gigantic building. I'm like, how much are you paying for rent? They're like, oh, it's like 60 grand. I'm like $60,000 for rent. Then because there was a cannabis shop right down the street from us called Xenobus, we figured, well, this is no problem. Like we'll be able to get in all day long. We got licensing came fast from the government within reason, like six months fast.

31:59SpeakerBut The city of Delta decided that they were going to do a case-by-case study on each company that wanted to bring cannabis to their city because they were convinced that what we were really going to do is take the cannabis out of the facility and go down to the high schools and sell it for $35.08. This is the mentality of these people. And it cost us an enormous amount of money because they didn't give us the, you know, they're okay for us to put a cannabis Company in that building for almost two years paying $60,000 a month rent, if you can imagine, Thomas.

32:40SpeakerHow's that for a burn it to the ground? Like, what are we doing here, guys? Like, oh my God, I was so naive. I just thought as long as I make cash, we should be okay. As long as every day I've just got the equipment operating and making hash, we should be okay. In the end, that company was not okay. They flailed it, fucked it right into bankruptcy, but it still exists.

33:08SpeakerMy new partners, we have no debt. We have no equipment debt, no CRA debt, no partnership debt. The company is a unicorn in Canada for processing now. We still have the same facility. It's just on one floor of the three stories. All the equipment's paid off and we're full up with rosin presses from Sasquatch, 55 tons, We've got the Sambo Creek Filtration Electroplasmatic Dry Sifting Unit. We have the Whistler 300, WT300 washing equipment.

33:40SpeakerWe have a ton of, well, not a ton, but like three XL resonators with a walk-in freezer. So we have the ability to get a lot of stuff done without those crucial mistakes that were made by early companies. And wow, did we ever see it a lot in Canada? And you got to think like that's, People's money. You know, that's not just like some dude like burning it to the ground because he's incompetent.

34:06SpeakerThat's like it's an entire team of people all from what I saw. And it's not like they were all terrible people. It just seemed like they were coming from corporate America or corporate North America because they were all Canadians and bringing all the things that they learned. The marketing people were like, we're going to bring all the things we learned at marketing school. It's like I would try to tell them, You can't, it won't work that way.

34:32SpeakerIt won't come across as authentic. You actually have to, you're going to have to start anew with your knowledge. This is an opportunity for you to pioneer something. You can take the little gems that you brought from your education, but what you're going to need to do is you're going to need to shift your perspective and apply something new and novel to how you bring this to the market.

34:54SpeakerAnd I've seen little bits of it happen, but for the most part, There's highly regulated rules that say, you know, this is what your package can look like. You know, in America, it looks so much nicer. But in Canada, that's what you get. You know, this is a totally different product. Totally different product in Canada. Look at that. Can you imagine? Like, that is insane. People go into stores, they don't recognize the products at all.

35:21SpeakerThey're kind of like, so there's still, we're not under prohibition the same way as we were, but they're still stifling. They're still like, let's see what key, like I swear they must have had a think tank of brilliant people because they could not have accidentally fucked this up this bad. This absolutely has to be on purpose. I'm not a paranoid, delusional person. I'm just saying that these people, government officials and the people that are passing these regulations really don't, Health Canada less than two years ago in Canada said, we still believe there's no medical factors, no medical aspects of cannabis in any way While interacting with the human body, like they made a statement, even though they have a medical platform all across, one of the only federal medical platforms in the whole world, you know, one of the first, and yet they still don't acknowledge it.

36:12SpeakerSo I don't know. I'm rambling. Sorry about that, guys. Probably need another dab. Oh, go on. Sorry, no, I was just going to say that, you know, that's like in California, California is like the fifth largest economy in the world. Agriculture is a huge component of the economy here. We have a serious heritage legacy with cannabis, you know, the story, the worldwide story, and California dropped the ball.

36:40SpeakerAnd it's almost like it's impossible to think they dropped the ball that much. You know, like, and I'm not a conspiracy person at all. And, but I think it is a weird, it's, it's super fucking complicated, you know, and I do get that, that nobody really understood what to do. But I think your point about the, the, the leadership that we didn't There was no, like, I have this, like, you can think of a company like a car company or some invention.

37:09SpeakerIt starts with, like, the founder. It builds. It becomes bigger and bigger. And then it becomes a giant industry. And then maybe someone else takes it over, like the outside influence. Like, you could build a... You could build a manufacturing company and then 30 years later you're super successful and your new CEO is from insurance or entertainment or whatever, or the CFO. So you bring in this other guy.

37:33SpeakerBut we, as an industry, we brought in that guy from the beginning. As soon as we transitioned, All the leadership across the board was like, oh, we need business specialist guys. We need people who know how to do business. But none of them were ground up cannabis people. None of them understood cannabis. A lot of them made really bad decisions and influenced policy in a big way.

37:59SpeakerAnd no one really predicted what, no one ever thought what would happen if prohibition didn't exist. And what is cannabis really worth? What's the real value of cannabis? Not just to people as a medicine, but the commodity to the farmer, the manufacturer, the distributor. Nobody thought like, what's a real number? And if that's the real number, then that's the number we're all headed towards. And if we're all headed towards that number, then how do we transition from where right now it's 3000 bucks a pound, but it should probably be 100 or 200 bucks a pound.

38:38SpeakerAnd you're paying $8 a square foot for cultivation facility. It's like, that's not right. The state shouldn't have allowed that because, and then you're paying a half a million dollars for a license and spending $80,000 a month on rent. And like the state, the ag state should have like had the foresight to say, look, in order to transition out of prohibition, we got to be realiztic with people about what their opportunities are.

39:04SpeakerEveryone wanted to transition out of prohibition and not have jail anymore, but nobody wanted to let that prohibition dollar go. You know, that prohibition dollar, the people came in, they were like, all right, we're going to legalize this. We're going to change everything. Wait a minute, Bill, let's not change the prohibition dollar. It used to make sense getting, you know, say 3000 US dollars a pound, which is like 4500 Canadian.

39:29SpeakerThat is like, we're growing it for like, you know, in the 90s, maybe 2000, you know, 1500. So the profit margin of weed from Canada to America was just astronomical. Now, it was that way. Because if you got caught, depending on the state, you were probably doing like a five or a 10. year sentence depending on where you got caught the higher the the money amount like if you're going down to arkansas and getting 6200 well you're definitely doing the 10 if you get caught like even with like a zip let alone you know 100 pounds so it made sense in the in a sense it didn't really but it made sense in the sense that this horrific jail sentence was the reward or the the anti-reward you know of making this enormous amount of money they got rid of the jail sentence And then suddenly they wanted to keep the same prices.

40:22SpeakerRight. The algorithm changed. And the funny thing is the corporate guys who first, the first rush, the first wave, they were chasing that prohibition dollar. Because they didn't come from ag. They weren't ag tech people. They weren't people who were ethnobotanists. They didn't really understand cannabis. So they were like, oh, fuck, man, there's a lot of money to be made. Even if it's 500 bucks a pound, we're still making crazy money.

40:47SpeakerAnd now the can costs more than what's inside the can. Dude, how about even crazier? I'll step it up for you. When I go to cannabis stores, And I try to explain to everyone, because all the corporate people want the same thing. They're like, we need to stabilize and shelf ready these products. I'm like, oh, you want us to take a volatile compound and stabilize them for the shelf.

41:13SpeakerAll right. Well, I don't know a ton about a ton, but that sounds very difficult. That's what they want to do. They want to stabilize it. Then what do they do? You go to the store and the only thing that is being made cold Our 10 milligram shots of distillate nano emulsified into a beverage in a little can sitting in the fridge. And I'm like looking at all the hash at room temperature.

41:38SpeakerI'm looking at all the weed. I'm trying to explain to them that all of your volatile compounds, they're boiling right now at room temperature. And they're, oh yeah, the volatile smells amazing. I'm like, no, no, this, And the companies are so new that they've gone so big so fast that they're not growing exceptional cannabis yet. Some are, some are doing a great job, but many are not.

42:01SpeakerSo already you have the disadvantage of the volatile organic compounds are already in smaller amounts than they would have been had they been grown more properly by better people under better conditions with better cultivars. And now they're boiling those off. It's like, dude, it's only 1.5% as it is. By the time the guy gets it and it's dry and the terpenes and all these beautiful volatiles have boiled off, it's not the same experience.

42:30SpeakerAnd that's where you get people being a little bit disgruntled with their purchase. It's come a long way in Canada, I will say. There's a lot more companies that are sort of on the par for producing nice things. People from the black and gray market that have transitioned over and understand that growing smaller amounts is probably a better idea. Then trying to grow, you know, a million square feet when the only thing you've ever grown is fucking chickpeas.

43:01SpeakerYou know, we were talking about just about government screwing things up. It's crazy to see what's happening in Germany right now. Like, boy, if they like, they have just really screwed everything up where I think they're basically eliminating or limiting people to only be able to do like 55 light shows. I forget how many people they can do it for. So then you have to extend groups.

43:25SpeakerI we've been talking with multiple people out there and it just It just sounds like such a headache and just such a bad idea, a bunch of real bad ideas that aren't going to be sustainable. Who would have thought that the Germans would come up with a bureaucratic nightmare for cannabis? Like I would have never thought. So weird. It's like a weird, it's like, it's like a Spain weird hash.

43:50SpeakerIt's like a club membership based thing. That's what they want to do in Germany. A quota-based perk patient. It's impossible for any businesses to make money, really. But they're like, I think the logic was like, well, we'll figure out a way for you guys to smoke weed, but no one gets to make money off it yet. Exactly. They figure it out. They figure it out to make it be like, if you do the numbers and i can't remember the exact numbers it's like five keys a month or something or some small amount if you do the math you're allowed to have a certain amount of members 200 members or something they're allowed to buy a maximum amount of cannabis twice a month and if you do the math numbers and all of those guys are buying then it's like okay this is an okay little business but the problem is is Unless you're producing great cannabis, they're going to be a part of other groups.

44:43SpeakerThey're going to get cannabis from a multitude of places. It'll dilute your sales. You won't be selling 100%. And your number is already small, it seems like. And then they're all investing in their own growth, which from the Grandmaster LED perspective is like, woohoo. Instead of just a bunch of big companies coming in, it's literally going to be like, I think they put the cap at 10,000.

45:05SpeakerAnd I could be wrong. But I thought I heard when we were in Berlin that they're going to allow 10,000 private clubs throughout Germany. Yeah. To be growing their own weed, processing their own hats, and selling it to their own private members. That's a lot of work. I don't think 10,000 people are going to find success in that.

45:29SpeakerYeah. All right, I want you all taking a dab right now. And I want Brian to tell me about what his best hash dash rosin is that he's growing and smoking right now. Because I miss your deep radio voice describing in detail rosins and hashes. I do, man. I miss that.

45:51Bryan Best Friend FarmsI grabbed a couple just in case we were talking about that kind of thing. Yeah, I got them. This is rosin form, but this is some lime peels, I'm calling it. And my friend, Jacob Habhash, friend, bred this. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I shared some breeding technique in my last year out in Humble, which was eight years ago. We worked together in the field and he sent me some seeds he made a couple of years back.

46:18Bryan Best Friend FarmsAnd this was a... Lemon Peel by, uh, Lemon Peel again on, on Ghost Train Banana Sherbert by Z-Face. The, like, really creative he made and it's super duper loud. Like, can't wait to share it with him back. But anyway, there's a look. It's hard to smell through the computer, but it's definitely like you've stepped on some, like, gassy lime peels and it's right in your face and the taste is almost louder than the smell on this one.

46:47Bryan Best Friend FarmsLike, the translation is almost overboard, uh, Out of your ears, on the taste, even from the smell. So I'm liking this one. It's got a really good sativa kick too in that profile. The lemon G on the I-95 shines in this one. Yeah, dude, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, so I'm liking that one. I stick to my gas mask heavy and then I just did finish while breeding and working with my new 207 headband.

47:13Bryan Best Friend FarmsKind of threw back to the old East Coast headband clone I came into when I was first moving back here. So I'm kind of on the gas ticket as usual, but working with some... I got a whole list of interesting new ones coming up to talk about when the time's right, but I'm excited.

47:31SpeakerI want to hear about every one of them for sure. Once you're holding the jar in your hand.

47:36Bryan Best Friend FarmsWell, I got a few new ones I'm turning that is, I got a strawberry headband I made from my strawberry Midas into the headband clone I call strawberry headband. And I crossed that into the gas mask for a strawberry gas mask I did. I also am like checking phenols outside on these projects right now and seeing which ones shine, which ones keep or make it. And I've got like the strawberry headband lines into some different things because it just shines so well outside last year is actually most of that reason.

48:07Bryan Best Friend FarmsAnd I did a sour banana sherbet on the strawberry headband for like a straw nana band type of thing, like a contemporary straw nana. I got that citrus smoothie, which is the comes. That's what the lime peels. I named the Fino, but it's actually his creation. It's called citrus smoothie. Jacob, the half hash creation. So I'm tying that like, yeah, like a mail in that shine the same lemon G profile on me, like the lemon peel profile.

48:34Bryan Best Friend FarmsSo I'm working those on the yard. I seem to see like. We talked about this, I think, a couple few years ago, but I see a really good resistance kick on the lemon or the lemonine terpene out into Maine as far as like health carry through the season. But yeah, so I got some different interesting gas mask on. GMO is a new one that I'm really working with calling GASMO.

48:59Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, so that one popped up. One that Skunk Van would like, Sam would like. I got like a really skunky phenol on that one and one that leaned more towards the GMO. Both of them just, or one of them dumps hash. I can only imagine the other phenol next time we wash it will do the same. But yeah, I could go on and on and on. There's all kinds of that love for the strain work and Just trying to, you know.

49:26SpeakerI just love how you articulate it. And you can just tell and hear the passion in it. And you can hear the like, this guy has not only grown and touched and like experienced the expression of this plant. He's also like processed it and dabbed it out on all levels. And you're able to articulate that in a really good way, man. I'm telling you, I like that.

49:53Bryan Best Friend FarmsI love it. Thank you.

49:54SpeakerBrian, can I ask you about the East Coast headband? Sure. Because I have a kind of strange relationship with headband, just real quick. My good friend, I think he's known on the social media as Manny in the whole story of Sour Diesel. He was the guy who put the seed in the ground, but in the pot. He wasn't the, you know, it's a long story, but he's a close friend of mine.

50:22SpeakerAnd when he came out to the West Coast in the late 90s, I did a swap with him with Sour Diesel and Kush before it was called OG. So we did a trade and I gave the OG guys the sour for the first time and I gave the sour guys the OG for the first time. And long story, crazy story short, but when he was up in the Bay Area, 707, at first he was up in Mendo area, but when he was in Sonoma, I told him not to, I suggested not calling the OG OG.

50:59Bryan Best Friend FarmsOkay.

50:59SpeakerI get cush because it was a weird, a weird time in the scene, you know, not that many people had that cut at the time and it was just a little bit volatile and just the weird money element around it. Anyway, he called it headband. And that's where the 707 headband came from. And the whole story was that when he back in the East Coast, when he was a kid in the 80s, you know, late 80s, early 90s, they used to use the term headband as a descriptor.

51:31SpeakerFor like a certain effect, which, you know, we've all had, you know, that rubber band coming off your head. Right. But so so the question I had to him and I've asked this of other people who were on that scene back in the days, was there ever a real was there ever a cut? I've always been trying to trace like if anyone can have an origin of an original East Coast headband cut that predates like 99, 2000 era.

52:16SpeakerIt's a great part of around Chemdog and OG.

52:20Bryan Best Friend FarmsI love the story. Yeah, those are great pieces you're throwing in right there. That's the history. I think like it's none of it's well, it's written down, but none of it's locked in, you know, written into stone where a lot of pieces move with the OG story and the sour diesel story. I only really know like what my history line with it is and definitely raised up on that real ECSD cut that I've heard sourced back to the Albany called such things.

52:45Bryan Best Friend FarmsThis had been, when I was out west, I lived in NorCal and did this work, medical work for 11 years. So I got to touch some really good genetics out there. And I did work through a different batch of cushions to get to that true OG cut, it was called, out of southern Humboldt circulation from Oaksterdam or Oakland area. And I really love that one. And I would say as far as the headband out west, I tried the 707 and maybe another Lumpica or something, a couple few of them that like my glass blower friends up in Arcata were in love with that 707 and a couple of variations that were more cush sided out there that I noticed, definitely more OG sided.

53:27Bryan Best Friend FarmsAnd then when I moved back here, I just had a friend kind of blessed me with some plants when I stepped into in the first light dap. And there was a super lemon haze cut that was amazing. And then there was this headband cut just reported to me as it moved through the lines. People shared it. It was definitely like East Coast heavy headband cut that some people reported to be possibly what's termed our original diesel.

53:50Bryan Best Friend FarmsThank you so much for joining us.

54:19Bryan Best Friend FarmsLike not your mass super skunk as much sided. It was more thick, like a cush thickness to it versus, you know, the ECSD. And, you know, that was, that was sour diesel. Damn, East Coast sour diesel. But then I heard other people out there when I was in working in the, you know, the Santa Rosa Sonoma area with some, actually a market, like a farmer's market and such.

54:38Bryan Best Friend FarmsSome people had some clones and some medicine or some flour of it. And some people termed it the mistress cut. I don't know if you've heard that one thrown around out there, like the sour diesel you cheat on your other sour diesel with.

54:53SpeakerYeah, yeah.

54:54Bryan Best Friend FarmsOh my God.

54:55SpeakerThere could be another story attached to the Mistress Cut, but that's maybe getting a little too personal.

55:01Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know.

55:03SpeakerNo, but that's a really interesting story because I think, so the first time I showed these guys the OG around 98, 99, they took a look at it and go, that's the Dizzle. Where'd you get Dizzle? And I mean, like, and these are the Sour Diesel guys. I'm like, you mean Sour Diesel? Like, no, no, no, Diesel. Because Sour Diesel is just Kim. Sour Diesel is just Sour Kim.

55:25SpeakerAnd then they just change it to Diesel because Diesel was a popular, you know.

55:29Bryan Best Friend FarmsSo did you hear this? You'd be one I think I can ask about because you have some of this folklore. The story. My friends that circulated around the first early cuttings like, oh, 99, 2000, even 2001 that came around for us back then. Years later, when I came back, a friend of mine said that he had heard the sour diesel story coming out of this, you know, the East Coast side actually pertaining more to that.

55:53Bryan Best Friend FarmsIt was diesel was like a term, like you're saying, that referred to like strength, power. It was, you know, that powerhouse there. Right. Oh, and then what I heard is the sour got flipped onto it because if you had that real cut of that diesel, then other crews were sour over it. Have you heard that one a lot?

56:13SpeakerWell, that's that's part of it. Yeah, that's that's part of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's soured relationships. Yeah. But it was originally it was the first seeds. We're from Chemdog and it's unknown male for two generations, basically. So the whole mass super skunk side, nobody really knows. But basically the seeds were, as far as I remember, you know, in my memory fades, man, it was our chem on the seed pack, on the little film box.

56:47SpeakerAnd then they put the S in front of our chem and then it was sour chem. And then once it, because it was Chemdog. And then once it hit the market, When people started purchasing it, it was like, oh, it sells. We'll sell it as sour diesel because diesel is like chronic. It's like saying fire.

57:04Bryan Best Friend FarmsIt's like PIF or diesel.

57:07SpeakerYeah, exactly. Yeah.

57:09Bryan Best Friend FarmsCool.

57:09SpeakerI was waiting for the PIF to get mentioned. PIF.

57:14Bryan Best Friend FarmsI haven't worked with any of that one in a while. Any variations?

57:20SpeakerAnd I just have a nice little download on the stories. Go ahead, Mohave. Is it really supposed to be PIF is just supposed to be Purple Haze? Purple Haze. Purple Haze. I saw this on some video that the PIF, they call it the PIF because the Dominican guys that were selling haze We're calling it purple. It was NL5 haze, but they were calling it purple haze because haze and purple haze just were attached.

57:44SpeakerAnd the guys who were hearing it didn't get the accent right. I don't know if that's just an internet story, but I've always wondered where the word piff come from.

57:53Bryan Best Friend FarmsI'd like to know the same.

57:57SpeakerHow do you get those Miami guys in here?

58:02Bryan Best Friend FarmsThey all, we called it haze back in the day and then piff came later for me actually after I moved back even years ago.

58:09SpeakerIt was always haze for us up in Manitoba. You know, that's what it was. 18 plus week flower. Right. You know, big monster plant, little tiny buds. Just, I was so lucky, truly, that as much of a commercial grower as my mentor Ron Hickey was, Because he was just all about like building these like secret rows and houses all across. He was also, you know, one that would be like, let's just grow this.

58:40SpeakerIt's 20 weeks of flowering. And just like people would be like, whoa, what are you talking about, Ron? Like we could hammer off like three crops. Like we can't, we can't do that. Like, oh, he'd be like, oh, we're doing it. And that weed was just so spectacular to have that in my history of that, you know, people would come into the room and they'd be like, They think it was like perfume, like literally just on their tongue, in their mouths, down their throats.

59:06SpeakerLike what is that perfumey smell? But it's the haze. And in fact, this is an amazing thing because my wife is not a huge proponent of cannabis. Obviously she has an appreciation for the fact that it's been funding our life for the last 35 years. And she has her own relationships with wearing hemp and CBD and whatnot. But yeah, just not overly a huge cannabis proponent. But when my first son was born and we named him Tosh, she suggested that we use the name Hayes for his middle name, which in fact is his name.

59:44SpeakerHe's Tosh Hayes. And I just thought that was such a cool thing. And I even asked her later, I was like, what made you do that? Like, what made you say that? And she's like, You would always just get so excited about the haze. I wanted to transfer a little bit of that over to our son. I was like, that's amazing. The haze, it's the haze. That's how excited we would be.

1:00:05SpeakerYou guys know, I'm sure you would the same way. My wife did the exact same thing with my son. It's so weird you said that, man, because she suggests my son's middle name is Sage. And, and, and my wife is not a smoker. And she like, it didn't even really like she doesn't even like follow the whole heritage of me as a breeder and stuff like that.

1:00:27SpeakerIt's not a big part of our lives and our narrative. She's like, well, what about the words? What about sage? Isn't that a cool? I'm like, honey, you realize that it's kind of weird for me. It's like, just do that. She's like, yeah, but it's a cool name. I'm like, yeah, you're right. It's a really cool name. Let's do it. I mean, dude, listen, that is unbelievable because you bred both of those stages.

1:00:48SpeakerYeah, that's right, man. I'm a sage breeder. That's right. You are a sage breeder on multiple fronts. That is super cool. Shout out to the Y and how cool they are. Yeah. Couldn't do it without them. That is for sure. Couldn't do it without them. That is for sure. Well, man, what a nice chill out. It's been about an hour so far. I'm good for a little bit more and I'm missing Sam.

1:01:14SpeakerI'm hoping that everything's okay with him and that maybe just maybe had some family or something else going on that he couldn't make it today. But it's good to hear from each and every one of you. What's that? I thought Rob was just out there for his birthday. Right. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. That's there with him. Living the birthday life. I wish I could go and travel around for people's birthdays.

1:01:42SpeakerRob is the consummate traveler. Always a traveler. Yep. Kept it consistent too. Like, did not slow down as he got older. He's just like, I'll just keep visiting countries. Yeah. Wow. I'll never forget really that it kind of blew my mind that he had this apartment that he didn't really live in, but it just held like boxes of all of his stuff. I was always just like, dude, that is, that is neat.

1:02:07SpeakerThat's wild. You're just like, And I can't count the amount of times that I would go visit him at that apartment deal going on the toll square out there. And he would have just gotten back from somewhere. So we'd have all these crazy like tools from, you know, harvesting hemp in Vietnam and like cloths and beads and like just going through Rob's stuff with Rob was one of my coolest memories of hanging out and getting to know Rob.

1:02:35SpeakerReally get to know that guy when you let him go through the stuff that he's collected around the world and sort of express his passion that he has for the weeds and the culture. And once again, I just have, I'm attracted to passion. I really have an attraction to passion. It doesn't even have to be passionate about something that I personally love. If it's palpable and the person is just truly authentic in their passion for the thing they're sharing with you, It's a pretty lovely experience.

1:03:07SpeakerI think if more people put their phones down, in fact, and hung out with people just, you know, next to each other rather than, sorry, what were you saying here? Oh, did you see this? You got to check this out. It's like, I don't want to check that out. I want to relax and connect and cough some dabs.

1:03:30SpeakerIndeed. Indeed. Thomas, are you going to tell us about the UVC lights a little bit? I feel like we should probably talk about that a little bit. Sure. You know what? I think I can actually... Let me start it off. You do what you're going to do. What I'll start off is how... Thomas, I've known for a long time. He's Grandmaster LED. He's got a popular YouTube channel.

1:03:53SpeakerHe's lots of traction. He's always been doing stuff. But it was only about a year ago he was reaching out to me. On Instagram, which is a terrible way to reach out to me for anyone that wants to know. It's much easier to just hit me up on my bcbubbleman at icloud.com. You can find it almost in all my social medias. But he hit me up on Instagram and I get so many messages on there.

1:04:16SpeakerI'm not always quick. And he had sent me maybe three or four messages and I hadn't gotten back to him. He was like, I have something. The messages were like, I have something amazing. You got to check this out. It's crazy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, oh. I got to get back to this guy. I got to get back to this guy. Lose the messages in the list.

1:04:35SpeakerFinally get back to him. And he's like, I got this light that like kills bugs. And I'm like, okay, dude, like, sure you do. And he starts telling me about this UVC light. Listen, he got me hooked. I will admit, I had to go and photograph the garden that he showed, which was full of, I think the first one he showed was full of thrips. And as a grower, you know, I haven't been growing every day for the last 35 years, but I started growing almost 35 years ago and I've grown some crops and I know what it looks like when you get bugs.

1:05:09SpeakerAnd I know how devastating it is when the plants look the way they looked when he showed the crop with the thrips. And so he showed a crop, you know, the same crop later. I don't know if it was 30 or 40 days later. This was when he really first got the light and didn't understand. There's still a lot to learn about this light, a lot. But he was using it for very, very short intervals.

1:05:31SpeakerIt was like five minutes a day on. And they're just little five watt strip lights that point up under the canopy. And they disrupt these bugs in a big way. What were the other ones? The aphids. They were like literally running away. Go ahead, Thomas. Yeah, absolutely. Jeff, can you spotlight or spotlight or pin my video here and I'll hit play. Yeah, let me see how I can do that.

1:05:58SpeakerSpotlight for everyone. There we go. So this is actually like the rips in my own medical garden on the very first day that I was testing them out myself. What's like really crazy about this is well before I'd even started this we had already done tests and been totally successful so we were taking basically a tent taking just like one plant And introducing spider mites. We started off our very first test were spider mites where we're introducing five to seven mites.

1:06:30SpeakerAnd within seven days, we're completely beating them. Like I'm talking like at this point, I thought, okay, I can beat spider mites. And we're also beating thrips. So this was the first, but it was only like on an individual plant with like one or two thrips and or with only like five or seven mites. So this was the first thing where we actually have an actual thrip infestation.

1:06:51SpeakerAnd you can see how they're just like bars that go underneath. Thank you for joining us today.

1:07:21SpeakerThree days before this, I cleaned the bottoms up and I moved the lights up and I like I couldn't really find any thrips or thrip damage at that point. And so right before I took this footage, I had found thrips in the corner. It's going to show it in a second in the one area where I didn't strip the leaves like I totally forgot to strip the leaves and it's like the one area where the lights not treating.

1:07:44SpeakerSo it was pretty incredible. This was on the very, at this point, like basically the footage is just trying to show like you can't really hide, you can't hide the damage that thrips do. It has like almost like a slug paste that goes everywhere. And this is where, this is right where I found them. And you can see, I moved the light into the corner right before I had taken the footage, but you can see they went right into the corner.

1:08:09SpeakerAnd as the crop went on, I thought, Like I, you know, I considered it 97 to 98% protection because we couldn't kill them or beat them at five minutes a day, but you couldn't see a trace of any damage in the top 30 plus inches, which to me was beating them because, you know, you, I just, you can't normally beat them and they will just spread like, you know, Just insanely fast.

1:08:38SpeakerSo anyways, we we started then wanting to use UV to stress out the plant because UVA and UVB have been or UVA is commonly used to like enhance THC and terpenes. And then, you know, UVB, there's a lot of evidence that it works a lot better. So then we started, you know, UVC has a much higher efficacy. So we started doing two 15-minute treatments, and six days later, the thrips were completely gone from the room.

1:09:07SpeakerCompletely. You could not find a thrip. We flew Matthew Gates out from California. He's like an IPM specialist, just to see if he could find any. And it was just kind of mind-blowing. We accidentally... Dude, I came out there with my macro fucking lens and photographed that crop looking for thrips or any type of bugs. I have the macro photographs. There's not a bug. There's no bug shit.

1:09:34SpeakerThere's no sign of any bugs, which was the thing that caught my attention. That was my full circle. Yeah, and it was just kind of mind blowing to kind of see that. Well, we didn't even end up beating them until like the sixth week and when we were trying to enhance THC. So at this point right now, this is another shipping container I have where I had three tents and there was another lab that participated with this and then someone else in Michigan and someone else in Oregon where we're And at this point, when I was developing this, there was all different types of UVC diodes.

1:10:08SpeakerThey all have different types of efficacy. They all have kind of different types of wavelengths. So we were trying to determine what is going to be the most effective. And so we were making and we were also using different diode counts and we're and we were running different milliamps through the diodes, just kind of developing it. And at the same time, this is when we were testing spider mites.

1:10:27SpeakerAnd and at the same time, while we This is where we're taking, like on our very first test, we're taking five to seven spider mites. Now we're taking hundreds of spider mites. And with lima bean leaves that have eggs and letting them establish for hours, while these ones, what you're looking at right now, this leaf was clean 12 hours ago. So they've had 12 hours to like what you can see the damage of what they've done in 12 hours.

1:10:57SpeakerAnd it's pretty mind blowing what they can do. It hurts my soul. Yeah, so all the footage that you're seeing, they had 36 hours to establish like, well, this is at the 12 hour mark, but with this treatment before we actually started using the light, they had 36 hours to establish and we started doing 10 minute treatments. And like we're about to do a whole bunch of more testing on spider mites, but it's still pretty incredible.

1:11:23SpeakerSo this is seven days later. So you can remember what they did to those leafs in the first 12 hours and we can come to the very top leaf. And it's totally clean. And like they're still alive on the plant. But the simple fact that after they're they've been like after they get treated, they get suppressed and they just start walking around almost aimlessly. You can see the adults are they're on the plant and they're But a lot of them are just kind of sitting there.

1:11:49SpeakerThey're not doing setting up shop what they normally do. It screws with their DNA and their RNA. Like I said, we're working with a university that is assisting with the white paper. So we don't have all the science on it yet, but we do know that it just, it totally disrupts them without question. It's slowing the spread down by 90 to 95%. But that's not to say that,

1:12:13SpeakerWhen we, if we're with two 15-minute treatments that we, like, we have a chance to still potentially beat them because we couldn't, like, 10-minute treatments could not, like, we couldn't beat thrips with two 10-minute, or with a 10-minute treatment. But two 15-minute treatments, we absolutely can beat them where they are completely gone, eradicated. And right behind here, you can see these are kale plants that have hundreds of regular aphids.

1:12:40SpeakerAnd we... Within a couple days, you can see that there's like a trail of them leaving and dying. And it's extremely, it has a very high efficacy on aphids. Within 14 days, over 90% of them are dead on the plant, just right in their tracks, breaking down. I will say the first crop that he showed, which was that death bubba with the thrips, I went there, I photographed it.

1:13:10SpeakerThen we harvested it. He harvested it and we ran it through bubble bags in my living room because I just wanted to see. To me, it didn't seem possible that a plant could get that bad of an infestation and not be drastically affected in its yield and or quality and caliber of resin. And it came out like five star resin. And I think we got about 22 or 23%.

1:13:38SpeakerSo the yield was there, the quality was there. It kind of blew my mind, I'm not going to lie. And that was really sort of the nudge I needed to be like, you know what, this seems, I just remember being a young grower and how, I mean, listen, from the perspective of like even food production, peppers and all these other different things, like this is, Pretty insane when you think about it.

1:14:01SpeakerNow, obviously, I have always concerns about disruption of DNA and RNA, and I wouldn't want to be in the room while this thing is on. Thomas suggests that you're not in the room while it's on because it is UDC. Yeah, well, absolutely. Like this can cause cancer. It's just a fact. So you absolutely don't want to be anywhere near this and you want to use it in the middle of the darkness.

1:14:25SpeakerAnd that's where what we came across an article that kind of led to everything and how everything developed. But bugs are attracted to light in the middle of darkness. And even though UV five watts might to our human eye doesn't look like very much and it's not enough to disrupt the plant sleeping, but it's a lot to an insect. And it's enough for them to be kind of like attracted in.

1:14:46SpeakerAnd what's really exciting here is what we haven't discussed yet is we had a timer failure that led to another really incredible discovery. Well, we have like I already brought up that people it's commonly known that people use UVA to enhance THC and terpenes, which UVA is basically like a blue. It's 350 nanometer to 400 nanometer wavelength. And going back almost seven years ago, I saw a whole bunch of people that participated when they're going and using UVA against UVB.

1:15:22SpeakerUVB is 280 to 315. And we saw like the UVA, there was almost no gain. Thank you for watching.

1:15:43SpeakerAnd came in the room and the plants, every part of the plant was completely fucked. Like, so that's when we learned that the light can be systemically admitted into the plant. So that is something that we're going to be playing with. It was also really good that this actually happened because we realized like, hey, oh my goodness, if someone has a timer failure, they could kill their crop with these lights.

1:16:06SpeakerSo we were able to develop our driver, the MCU and the driver so it can only run for 15 minutes at a time. Anyways, I don't really have too much more than that on it. Well, it's a simple fact that we're developing it. We have a utility patent too on how it mounts. And like I believe in two years from now, anybody that's doing commercial growing will be using it or like a knockoff of it because it breaks the rules of growing.

1:16:37SpeakerIt's also the very first EPA certified pesticide light in the United States.

1:16:45SpeakerThomas, can I ask you, can I ask you a question about how, is it, is it drying? Because you said a small amount of light to attract insects. So is it drying the plants to the UV and then the UV is having the effect? Well, I, I, it definitely draws it to them and then it's screwing them up. But like we were confused by the science when we absolutely like eradicated them.

1:17:07SpeakerLike the first time, like when I thought that we, it was, you know, stopping them from being able to reproduce initially. So I was thinking, okay, it's taken us five or six weeks to get to this point. And now all of a sudden they're gone. But then it's, And here's another thing. In the very first test, we were also moving the lights up to get it as close as possible to anywhere where it was infected, where on the following crop, we realized we didn't have to even move the lights up.

1:17:33SpeakerWe just ran it for those two 15-minute cycles, and it's like they were gone. So I definitely think that they are attracted to it. I can't say... Thank you for watching.

1:18:01Speakeron like as it is to thrips and you know thrips and spider mites are what I would consider the two biggest pests in cannabis obviously there's a lot of you know fungus gnats and aphids and obviously root aphids are another kind of level and broad mites and rusted mites but I actually believe it would be very effective against broad mites and rusted mites the problem with root aphids is they can stay their whole life in the soil even if they're a full adult I like the idea that as a preventative, you know, like for sure there's going to be people initially that are like, I got an infestation.

1:18:35SpeakerI'm going to go out and get these lights and blast it hard. You know, I like it more as a just have them in your room. They're five minutes twice a day. They're just preventative. Like you said, Thomas, it's not like you're going to get 20,000 spider mites at once. It's going to be like a few. And if you've got that... Yeah, it also someone's I saw someone in the comments asked about mold, and it will factually kill mildew.

1:18:59SpeakerSo like you could put it right in front of mildew and it will kill it, but it's not going to kill or solve a mildew problem. Like a mildew problem is like if you're, for example, if your VPD is totally way off, the biggest... Reason why people get mildew, in my opinion, is in the nighttime, the cycle, it gets too cold with your humidity that gets too high and you get a dew point.

1:19:21SpeakerAnd that's like how it can't fix or it's not going to solve something like that. But like I said, it definitely is going to fight and help microbials too. It's kind of like the ultimate, like it works to enhance THC and terpenes. It fights mold and it fights bugs. And for such a low wattage and like, let's be realiztic, even using 10 watts for 30 minutes a day is not going to make a, it's not going to change anybody's bill basically.

1:19:56SpeakerPer light.

1:19:59SpeakerYeah, they're tiny, tiny little, little dodgers. I'm always interested in, I mean, obviously my all-time favorite is outdoor. Regenerative organic, like that's my favorite. But I do love the fact that like I've even grown some incredible cannabis like just indoors, just with food that I bought at the store. I mean, it was an organic. I think I used like, what was that shit called? Earth juice, I think was something I used like 25 years ago or something.

1:20:30SpeakerJust not like fish emulsions and other like death tea. Open that shit up and someone's like, oh my God, did someone die in here? Like, no, man, it's my earth juice. Gonna put a little bit of, oh shit, I got some on my hand. Oh my God, that's gonna smell for a while. But concentrated, like really strong. Yeah, it was super concentrated. It would come out like, like a little, did not pour very well, that earth juice, especially if it aged for any amount of time, but.

1:21:02SpeakerWhat I was meaning was I still appreciate cannabis expressed in all these different ways. Obviously, I'm not a big fan of cannabis that's been sprayed by deadly chemicals because I am going to vaporize the materials and inhale them into my lungs. So, you know, organic is definitely, it's crazy that we have to use a word for just normal. This is just normal. Like, no, no, no, it's organic.

1:21:27SpeakerOrganic, that sounds expensive. It's like, no, it can't be. Like, it has to be more expensive. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:21:57SpeakerRemind me. Oh, man. Well, the LA Times went and pulled products off the shelf at a few dispensaries and had them tested by a far more comprehensive lab than the state mandated labs. And found they were filled, man, they were filled with things that are banned in the US, not just banned for cannabis, but banned in the entire US. They had some stuff that was in the single use potential harm realm, you know, just for irritants and all that stuff.

1:22:31SpeakerAnd Paclobutrazole, which has nothing to do with fighting off any, it's not going to kill your crop. It's just about... Rock hard nugs. So so it was still everywhere. And basically what it comes down to is in the whole California supply chain is fucked and there's like illicit shit that makes it in and it gets all flopped around. But the crazy part is now they're realizing that out of the three big distillate manufacturers in the state, you could have as many as 80 farms contributing to one vape pen because they're literally dumping it all in the big vat.

1:23:10SpeakerAnd so if one out of the 80 farms is a dirty player, which there were, and there probably were more than one out of the 80, but just the idea that we've gotten to this point where it's this big giant, you know, corn syrup world that we live in, you know, high fructose corn syrup that came from how many different cornfields. And the fact that there's still, The greed element is a big part of it and failing farms and all the problems and everyone's like, oh, I got to make money.

1:23:41SpeakerBut the reality is, You know, and the sad part was, you know, the DCC had just done a $5 million campaign to show DC is the Department of Cannabis Control, use tax money collected from cannabis revenue to do a $5 million campaign to show people that buying cannabis was safe. You could walk into a dispensary and just like we test it and all this stuff, and then they test it.

1:24:07SpeakerAnd, you know, it exposed the dirty supply chain. It also exposed that the labs aren't necessarily testing as much as they should. It exposed that some labs don't do, some labs give you a pass, you know, some labs will say like, you know, hey, we'll give you a pass, you know, shop with us and we give you the highest THC numbers and we also pass your, you know, so.

1:24:32SpeakerThe whole industry is all fucked. And it's kind of the fast food side of it. It's not the sun grown, you know, family farm boutique organic thing. It's the big commercial failed farm trim market, you know, where people are selling five or ten dollar pounds of trim or moldy weed or whatever and turning it into distillate and isolate. And now, you know, we've got a huge vape and gummy and you know edible market and it's just uh it's been exposed so now shops are like going through like you know a lot of a lot of customers are showing up saying hey this is safe so some shops have taken it on to actually test their own products with the expanded panel um that the state doesn't mandate because we now know that there's things in there that they're not even testing for and it's just far out exactly it Yeah.

1:25:30SpeakerSo anyway, so all these years later, you know, working in cannabis, it's still a mess. And there's still a lot of people, you know, that came into this industry to make money. And, and the state hasn't managed the transition well, but this vape pen thing was really a big story. You can look it up. It's an LA Times piece and it's got a lot of traction. This is why I need Hash Church in my life, because I would not have been exposed to this otherwise.

1:25:56SpeakerAnd I'm always happy to hear about things like this and make sure that, you know, we're going deeper with our own hardware for the brand, like make sure that you're picking and choosing the right things. Obviously, we're already on the conscious side of things in the sense that we're not using moldy material, we're not using chemically sprayed material, and we're not making distillate, we're making live hash rosins.

1:26:21SpeakerWhich is, yeah, it's so crazy how greed is such a crazy factor that it turns into these monster scandals. It's like people don't start out evil. They just, they just kind of like one step at a time as they get into a deeper hole and they need to be pulled out. It's like, well, I can just sell all this moldy herb to the lab and we could turn it into distillate and then we can put it in with, you know, Terpenes, botanical terpenes that also have contaminations.

1:26:52SpeakerYou know, I think when Horatio bought his D-limonene, the contaminant was called citrus oil, and it made up 5% of what was in that five gallon drum. It was like a full liter of just like orange, strange shit that he pulled out of a clear liquid. Which I think you might have helped him with, Dr. Mark, if I do so remember.

1:27:21Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I did. Oh my God, man. It's, it's a, it's a shit show. What, what, what, um, you know, um, I, it's hard to even know where to begin. I think you have to begin at least. And, you know, we haven't been on Hash Church too much since, um, um, the Farmville. Right. So it's just it was never intended. I think when they signed the farm bill, I think they got snookered on seeds, oil and rope.

1:27:59Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. I mean, I don't I don't even think they contemplated CBD because CBD at the time had just gotten its approval as the active ingredient for Epidiolex. So, um, there was no, and yeah, you, the, the, um, the, uh, food drug and cosmetic act prohibits the use of FDA approved active in G ingredient in food feeder cosmetics. So basically that means the whole CBD industry as it exists was never contemplated because they're basically in violation Andrew Morse, Federal Law.

1:28:41Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's interesting because if you read that law, it basically says for interstate commerce. So I guess as long as you keep within a state, I guess it's okay. But that's where it kind of started, Marcus, really. I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, this vape thing is the fact that you can Chemically convert CBD into THC at about one-tenth the cost of, yeah, and Mojave will tell you too, it depends on, you know, what your economics and your supply chain are.

1:29:22Dr Mark ScialdoneBut when CBD has cratered to $250 a kilogram, it only adds a little bit of cost to now convert that into Delta 9. So the people who were originally converting it were converting it into Delta 8. And that's where you see all these Delta 8 products really proliferate for the most part in states where there isn't good cannabis products. Now, California, again, is a notable exception. And so there's a lawsuit between several dispensaries in the Los Angeles area and these hemp Manufacturers who are basically making $8 disposable vape pens that, you know, I don't know.

1:30:12Dr Mark ScialdoneIt really depends on like what your cost of production are, but whatever the cost of production is, the hemp guys are a whole lot cheaper because they don't have the regulation and they have a much larger addressable market. As soon as they could sell on the internet two clicks after saying you're 21 years old, They're asking you for your credit card information. So, I mean, how do you compete and how do you expect a population of people to go to the dispensary and buy stuff at the dispensary when they can get stuff online or at a gas station a whole lot cheaper?

1:30:50Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, a lot of these places, you could still go to jail for smoking weed, but on the way to jail, you could stop at the gas station and get yourself a Delta 8 pen, Or, you know, some gummies. And now that they're in gummies and beverages, Mark, you know, like beverages is huge. What, what, what Minnesota did. So there's just a patchwork of regulation down here in the States.

1:31:16Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd what Minnesota did is the, the, the liquor people who sell alcohol in Minnesota saw this THC beverage thing come in and all of a sudden they're like, okay, Liquor stores in Minnesota could sell 10 milligram CBD, you know, cans of seltzer and fruity soda and shit like that. And that just opened up this huge market because basically, you know, let's face it. We are a commodity.

1:31:50Dr Mark ScialdoneA commodity. It's the race to the bottom. So you need to reduce Your production costs at all, wherever you can. And in reduction of production costs, yeah. At the end of the day, why am I going to spend 10 times the amount of money to make that 10 milligrams of THC when I could chemically convert that from cheap-ass CBD? So in my building, I'm bringing in CBD, right, which has been made legal.

1:32:22Dr Mark ScialdoneBecause of the farm bill. And now I'm chemically converting that on what people really want, not CBD, THC, right? And the converters have gotten sophisticated enough. So their chemistry at first was, their chemistry game wasn't as good as it should be. And they were basically dumping everything into Delta 8, which is basically the thermodynamic product. So Delta 8 is not made by the plant. Delta 8 is a, is a regulate, is a, um, It's a degradation product, right?

1:32:53Dr Mark ScialdonePlant only makes Delta 9 configured cannabinoids, but the Delta 8 that's there is usually just in trace amounts. Usually, I think it's just a artifact of the measurement itself. So in that sampling of the process, you're actually converting some Delta 8. There's no Delta 8 in the plant. There's no Delta 8 made in that biochemical pathway, only Delta 9. But like, Delta 8 is not mentioned in the farm bill.

1:33:23Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it created this loophole for people to say, okay, as long as I convert my CBD into Delta 8, people get high. They don't give a shit. They can just put some SpongeBob kind of cartoon character on some label. And next thing you know, gummies, vape pens, soda pop, all that shit will be sold and not at a dispensary and not the kind of products that you guys Like Marcus and, you know, quality growers and quality single source hash.

1:33:55Dr Mark ScialdoneThis is just THC, the molecule in some fruity drink or some fruity candy that kids can eat and sneak while they're in high school. And yeah, I think it's a real big problem. And it's probably only possible because of prohibition itself that this problem actually exists. It wouldn't exist if If people had access to good quality weed, they wouldn't need Delta 8, NHHCP and THCP and acetate.

1:34:28Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's been a lot of people going to the hospital because of THC acetate that's not very clean. And I guess what they now found is that when you heat up THC acetate, it converts into something called ketene, which is something you don't want to be breathing into your lungs, but Yeah, all artificially made because of prohibition. I'll stop there.

1:34:52SpeakerYou know, it's crazy. I have some friends out in North Carolina and they're super conscious, like they grow organically, they process everything themselves, they do live hash rosin, but they're in that world. They don't do the Delta 8. They're just literally making the, you know, they're using that weakness in the farm bill and exploiting it to get like... Yeah, well, exactly. With live hash rosin, though. So they do it in a way that's like, I can't exactly, it's THC-A.

1:35:28Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, that's the other thing is that when they read the farm bill, it only references to THC-A or THC, but we all know that THC-A is the precursor to THC in the plant. So these people are all hiding behind this so-called... Loophole sinking that somehow. But if you read the code of federal regulations and most lawyers would, it says that you have to apply gas chromatography, which, as you know, will decarboxylate your THCA and convert it into THC.

1:36:03Dr Mark ScialdoneSo there is no real loophole there, but you'll see like cookies and other brands like this, Mark, selling THCA diamonds a gram at a time. And it depends, like some state, like Vermont doesn't allow it, so you can't ship it into Vermont. But in certain states, you can ship that shit over line, over state lines. And the other thing that's happening is they're taking cheap bulk hemp that's grown outdoors and they're spraying it.

1:36:33Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd not only spraying it, they're actually adding THCA isolate. So you could actually add THCA isolate To have flour and then putting it into the pre-roll. I mean, how fucked up is the market that that's like throwing sand down at the beach, right?

1:36:51SpeakerSo can I explain the way that they actually do get that loophole? And so the testing of the flour is a USDA umbrella. And that has a 30-day harvest window. So you need to test 30 days before harvest to show that you're below 0.3% Delta-9. And that is combined total THC. Right? So that's where it gets decarboxylated. So if you're growing a 60-day variety, and I know everyone is gonna like, just like jaws are gonna drop, but if you're growing a 60-day variety and you send in your harvest sample at day 30, there's not a lot on the plant.

1:37:40SpeakerOkay, so then you pass your Delta 9 USDA inspection, right? So then you go to full harvest on that plant, And you harvest it, and now you know that you're way over on the total THC, right? Because you now got a right plant. USDA, it's no longer in their purview. Now, all that needs to happen is that your COA has to show that you're at 0.3% Delta-9.

1:38:06SpeakerSo now the THCA number, regardless of whether it's a total THC, it never gets decarboxylated because it's separate. So now all you got to do is keep the supply chain cold enough that your 0.3 never goes over 0.3. And now you can sell that all over the place, even though your total combined could be in the 30s, it could be all over the place. So it's a ridiculous loophole.

1:38:30SpeakerAnd it's all about the harvest window. But the other thing that I find interesting because the guy, Rod Knight, the attorney who's had a lot of, he's the guy who's been kind of- Rod Knight. Rod Knight, yeah. He's the guy who's, I think, is on the Cookies website. But basically what he says is that- Even though they only mention Delta-9 in the Farm Bill, they exclude a bunch of other things.

1:39:00SpeakerAnd the fact that they put an exclusion in there implies that it was on purpose. Meaning if they excluded derivatives, they excluded alkaloids, salts, whatever other things, they said, let's give it broad language. So you're saying It's only Delta 9. Not all these other things. Let's not mention what the other things are, but let's just say not all the other things.

1:39:26Dr Mark ScialdoneYou got to remember, Mojave, with all due respect, that he is a paid show for the hemp industry.

1:39:34SpeakerThis guy is... Hey, before we get too off point, Wade had his hand up, so I want him to be able to speak on what we were talking about before we go too deep into it, and then we can get back to the paid show.

1:39:47SpeakerBecause I just got to speak up as a patient and a longtime advocate for patients. On the one hand, the ready availability of hemp products, if they are free of contaminants, it's a real gift. It's a boon to people. It's inexpensive, et cetera, et cetera. The problem is, as we've discussed, greed comes into it and people will do whatever they can to create a product that will sell.

1:40:18SpeakerAnd what's happening in the California market is the people who are good at this are being undercut and undermined by the whole hemp industry. And the sad part is there are actors in the hemp industry who are good actors, who are doing good work, who are creating good products. But we don't know who they are for sure. And then if you go into the legal market to what Mojave was talking about with this thing down in LA, yeah, what we're seeing is Cannabis crops showing up with compounds that are not listed in the prohibited compounds under California law.

1:41:01SpeakerThey're prohibited under federal law. So of course, California didn't call them out extra, but they're showing up in cannabis that's in legal dispensaries because California law doesn't require producers to test for that particular contaminant. And I know I'm ranting. I may not be making a lot of sense. But to me, the real tragedy here is, again, prohibition has created all of this crazy bullshit that is not serving anyone other than maybe some bureaucrats who are looking to keep a job.

1:41:40SpeakerYeah, grow your own and do it regeneratively. You can make your own medicine fairly easily. I'll stop there. And if you can't do it, come to Nevada County in California. There's a whole bunch of regenerative practitioners right here. And I'll stop there. Much love. Awesome. Thanks, Wade. All right. Back to the paid show. No, not exactly. And that, I think that the point that we're all seeing is that, is it a loophole and how long are people going to profit during the loophole?

1:42:19SpeakerAnd then what's going to come on the other side? Because something will, and they'll definitely ratify it or change it because it's kind of cuckoo. But, and also just to follow up on what Wade said, all the hemp products and the THCA products and the THCP and all the different things that are sold all over LA at head shops, Those are dirtier than the products that were tested.

1:42:42SpeakerSo let's not assume that the hemp versions that are being sold in gas stations and stuff are cleaner than the state regulated stuff. That was really dirty. So it's like, they're not even being tested. They don't even have, it's just wild, wild west. So it's just kind of a mess and, you know, it's, Yeah, I don't even know what to say about that. There's a gentleman in the chat named Dennis K. He wrote, the loophole was almost 30 pages that defined D9 as the controlled substance.

1:43:11SpeakerThat's not a loophole. That's an intentional act. He also mentioned, while you were talking about how to keep the numbers down, he said, I run a grow in Wisconsin. We test our plants at week two of flower to get less than 0.3% THCA-Delta-9,

1:43:27SpeakerThen do an independent freeze-dried sample at week nine to get a clean COA just prior to harvest. So just wanted to throw that in.

1:43:37Dr Mark ScialdoneHe seemed to have some knowledge in regards to... Well, so like with the regulation at harvest, the USDA's regulation ends. So like if you wanted to produce corn and produce cans of corn, Then you would need to build a factory where your productions of cans of corn are regulated under FDA guidelines because you're now taking that harvested crop and you're turning it into food, right? And so this is where the ball's been dropped, which is that the Food and Drug Administration is supposed to regulate crops after they're harvested because that's where the USDA sort of washes their hands.

1:44:25Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so with no regulatory pathway that's compliant to bring CBD products to market, what did they expect to happen? So now all this CBD was produced, you know, the beginning of the farm bill, a kilogram of CBD was like $7,000 a kilogram. Then maybe a year later, it was about 2000 bucks a kilogram. Now that same kilogram is down to $200 a kilogram. So

1:44:55Dr Mark ScialdoneThe conversion of CBD into THC has been known for a long time. And, you know, it's not a clean process and it depends on how well engineered that process is. You're going to get multiple products. To say that we don't know what's in these products is not entirely accurate because if you look at Like Josh Swider from Affinity in San Diego's for one or Chris Hudala from Pro Verde in Massachusetts.

1:45:31Dr Mark ScialdoneThey'll show you on the COAs that they test for all these non-natural isomers. Not all of them, but like things like ISO Delta 8 and ISO Delta 4.8. There's now certified reference materials so third parties can basically test for those. Those things. And so people like Josh will tell you that, yeah, I could distinguish a synthetic THC that's been chemically derived versus a natural THC, which has been extracted from cannabis plants, which I think is where we all want to be.

1:46:07Dr Mark ScialdoneBut this synthetic thing kind of popped up because of what Wade mentioned, the one word greed. But it also mentioned from the fact that they Unleash this 800-pound gorilla in the room, which is the hemp industry, without properly contemplating how to properly regulate it. You know, it's not a drug. Well, I guess Epidiolex is a drug. It's an approved drug that you can get a prescription for, that you can buy at a drugstore.

1:46:35Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, that's an approved drug. But cannabis, for the most part, is a medicated herb, right? And they need to come up with sensible regulation. And even the FDA threw out their hands and said, yeah, this doesn't really fit into our monomolecular medicine model, which you take an active ingredient through clinical trials to show that statistically the outcome for that patient works better when they take that medicine at this particular dose.

1:47:05Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, cannabis doesn't work like that, right? And if Mishulam teaches us anything, teaches us it's not just about single ingredients, it's about all the ingredients that are in there and everything that we like about The varieties that you guys breed and the hash that you guys make. I mean, it's just it's an incredible thing, but it can't be regulated. And I think the hemp industry and the cannabis industry are fighting at one another.

1:47:32Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd in some estimates, they they they size that. That hemp industry is being greater than $60 billion. You know, that's greater than all of the collective cannabis industries in all the different states. You add all that together, the hemp industry is bigger than that because larger addressable market, everything's about cost, everything's about making the cheapest thing that suffices out there. You know, how do you tie that together?

1:48:04Dr Mark ScialdoneSomehow you got to figure out a way Tie that together. Big beverages now in here because of what's happening in places like in Minnesota. So now you have, you know, these canning lines that could make literally thousands of cans an hour of this hemp derived D9 10 milligram beverage. I tell you when it's nano emulsified, Mark, even seasoned THC users like us, I can taste it about halfway through the can.

1:48:31Dr Mark ScialdoneI have them like, whoa, holy shit. That nano emulsification really does something to the biological activity and the onset of activity. So I'll stop there. But I just think that, yeah, Mojave, I don't know what you're seeing in California, but everywhere else in the United States, the cannabis industry and the profitability are in the toilet because they have to compete with this unwieldy hemp industry, which I think they're losing the battle.

1:49:05SpeakerI think the hemp farmers too, if they only really understood that, you know, there's huge money in the grain of the plant. Like here in Canada, our hemp industry is not CBD. It's just not a big part of what we do. We grow grain, we grow the seed, and then the seed gets either crushed into oil or it gets dehulled and sold as hemp hearts. And that, that is a massive business.

1:49:33SpeakerRight, which is not a drug variety.

1:49:35Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're not growing it. Right. It's just completely different.

1:49:41SpeakerIt actually follows the law.

1:49:44Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know. Mojave, don't you think that the people in Washington were snookered on exactly what Mark is saying? I think that they viewed hemp as being this industrial grain that makes seed oil. By the way, there's new studies. That show what we predicted back on Hash Church many years ago, that if you feed hemp seeds to chicken, those chickens are healthier. Well, now Tyson has got that data and it's just, yeah, it's a wonderful, we predicted it on Hash Church with its clapping.

1:50:18Dr Mark ScialdoneBut yeah, I think our government was thinking steeds, oil, rope. They did not contemplate CBD, right?

1:50:29SpeakerAnd if Rob were here, he would say, because we've written about this quite a bit, it's just simply, what is hemp? Because that's the big discussion in the US. And I've consulted in Minnesota for the past almost four years now. And it's pretty weird, the transition that's happened there. And it's kind of like become this petri dish for what is cannabis? What is the big C genus cannabis?

1:50:52SpeakerBecause it started as a no flower medical only state where it was just vapes and gummies in the Delta 9 world. And then quickly CBD became a thing and people wanted to grow up, but they didn't know. Literally farmers were growing plants. The farmers themselves didn't know what the downstream product they were making was. Someone just literally showed up and said, hey, plant these seeds. It's going to be good for you.

1:51:22SpeakerAnd they kind of had an idea. So is it CBD? Is it fiber? Is it grain? It was literally that confusing. And I can tell you stories about literal harvests where people backed semis filled with plants into big manufacturing floors, and they didn't even know what the product that was going to be made. Because they jumped so fast as farmers, like, hey, we grow plants. And they said, this is a big economic boom in this.

1:51:49SpeakerAnyway, over the years, it's transitioned to the most, almost the most liberal model for cannabis on earth. I mean, I drive from Minnesota gas station to gas station, every single gas station is selling cannabis beverages and vapes, gummies. You can get cannabis beverages on tap at a bar in Minnesota. Which I don't even understand how that works because they do have regulations on per serving amounts. And on tap, it's pretty vague what 16 ounces is or 12.

1:52:22SpeakerAnd anyway, and they have adult use. You can grow up to eight plants at home. They've been incredibly forward thinking in their social equity program with the tribal relationship in terms of giving tribes a head start into the rec market. That being said, the whole thing is still wacky because it's an island in the middle of this big, crazy continent of cannabis laws. And they also have interstate commerce bans on what can and can't come in.

1:52:54SpeakerBut the far out thing is just like other states. It's not based off of federal DEA guidelines. It's their own. Like in California, you can't order a BB gun on Amazon. They'll ship it to you in other states, but you can't order one because that's just a California law. We don't take BB guns online. And Minnesota is like, well, we also don't take THCA online. It's like, it's not whether a THCA is legal in the state or whether it's legal wherever, but we just have a ban on imports because they know how threatening it is to their emerging market.

1:53:28SpeakerThat California, Colorado, and Oklahoma Who are now not even, you know, now, and that's, this is the big question mark is that it's CBD is so cheap because people grew so much that they couldn't sell or process. Are they now going to be growing THCA instead of high CBD varieties in order to just circumvent the processing completely? And is that going to be the new farm built crop in these states that are still

1:54:01Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, the problem with, well, there's lots of problems there. You know, I come from the regulated cannabis world. You know, I know about the hemp world, but I'm more along the lines of like, you know, getting licensed operations growing, you know, and we have to do background checks on all of our employees. We have to have security cameras 24-7, you know. The whole nine yards. I mean, this is like the cannabis industry treated like nuclear waste kind of shit.

1:54:35Dr Mark ScialdoneBelieve me, I'm not about the over-honorous regulations that they apply to it. But if you look at it again, I don't think the intention of when Congress passed the Farm Bill was to unleash active pharmaceutical ingredients on the farm. I just don't think that that was the case. And I don't think, again, they pot, I think they were snookered on seeds and rope and oil. I don't think they ever thought about, you know, the CBD versus THC and converting CBD into THC.

1:55:14Dr Mark ScialdoneHell, that chemistry is as old as Roger Adams. So the worst thing is that there's products like THCP, which don't come from hemp. And don't come from CBD that are just completely synthetic. And if they're completely synthetic, well, now where can you get completely synthetic active ingredients, pharmaceuticals made places like China and India. So now it's just, you know, again, these aren't being extracted from plants that are grown in the ground.

1:55:46Dr Mark ScialdoneThey're chemicals that are made in the laboratory that are exploiting the wonderful activity and safety really of phytochemicals. But I've heard from a few people that have tried this THCP thing and it is serious business. It like puts you down in your chair and like for two days you don't want to smoke anything or be around anything like weed. And it's like that's not a very pleasurable experience.

1:56:12Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Can you turn up the volume of compounds that can agonize your CB1 receptors? Absolutely. That's the way medicinal chemistry works. But There's something that's great about the cannabis plant is it's got more than just THC, right? So you'll know that your experience with cannabis doesn't necessarily have to do with the THC level. The reason why the THC level is so important in commerce is because of prohibition and because of like when dispensaries and distributors are doing bulk buying and they're like, gee, am I going to buy?

1:56:46Dr Mark ScialdoneThe 25%, or am I going to buy the stuff that analyzes for 15%? Chances are the stuff that's analyzing for 25% is really 15%. They're just cherry picking their data that they're getting their COAs made on. All of this is just an artifact of prohibition. And I think like the last thing just about the hemp thing is that, you know, there's, yeah, probably people who are going to listen to what I say and say, oh man, You're against the plant.

1:57:15Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're against taking it. It's like, no, I'm all about the plant. But if people want cannabis and they want THCA, they need to end prohibition because only when prohibition is. So I've said this many times before, as long as there's prohibition everywhere and anywhere, there'll be a black market everywhere. And so like in California, for example, right? It doesn't matter what the laws are in California. The laws are fucked up in other places.

1:57:43Dr Mark ScialdoneSo California, Becomes basically the supply chain. And I think the worst thing that's happening now, again, is that there's this war between businesses that are trying to get products out through the channels versus cannabis channels. They're in lawsuits together right now because again, the folks in Southern California, because they've had to pay large dollars to get their places licensed and to get their places up and running.

1:58:10Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd now there's an unfair competition. From this, you know, competitive landscape that's outside their jurisdiction, that's bringing cheap products into their state. You know, it's the perfect storm. It's going to be interesting to see how this changes, if it changes at all in the next version of the farm bill, which as you know, Mojave, they just kicked the can down the road. But, you know, it's an election year.

1:58:38Dr Mark ScialdoneWho knows? Maybe things will happen and they'll end up deregulating I think moving the schedule three is an absolute non-starter because if you read the regulations, none of the cannabis supply chain that exists today would be compliant with schedule three listing. So I think this is basically an invitation for big pharma to come in and start acquiring MSOs that are positioned to get their GMP certifications So I know I'm doing a lot of talking here, but yeah, things are fucked up down in the States, Mark.

1:59:17Dr Mark ScialdoneBut, you know, hopefully everything will move forward because of people's love for the plant. And I like to almost put it back to like microbrew. I mean, once you let the microbrew kind of bug out, there were no, you know, no going back for some of us who will never drink Budweiser again. I'll only drink a locally brewed microbrew, right? So I think maybe with cannabis, again, art, artisan quality will really come through on that and that'll end up winning.

1:59:49Dr Mark ScialdoneAnyway, so much about Walmart, hemp and cannabis.

1:59:56Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, there's no shortage of it for sure.

1:59:59SpeakerIt's always a balance, right? You know, the whole time. There's, I bet you most people are happy with the vape pen, gas station, THCP diluted with CBN or whatever. Like, I don't know. I just, we are the anomalies. Our group is a special group that's like, you know, part of a smaller group that will grow just like I'm sure IPA beer has grown. I don't know what the percentage of IPA beer is versus like Coors and Old Milwaukee and Budweiser.

2:00:31SpeakerI'm suspecting in general.

2:00:33Dr Mark ScialdoneYou mean like locally brewed microbrewery?

2:00:37SpeakerYeah, compared to big beer, you know, what does big beer own of the beer industry? Is it like 50% or is it like 80 or 90%?

2:00:45Dr Mark ScialdoneI have no idea. That's it, Marcus. Oh, Mojave, you're muted. I can go to my Costco down here and I could certainly buy huge pallets of Bud Light, but right next to the Bud Light, there's some locally brewed Vermont beer that's so much better, right? So, yeah.

2:01:02SpeakerBut people aren't buying it by the pallet, probably. Right.

2:01:08SpeakerIt's growing. We'll put it this way. It's funny because me and Rob write a lot about the comparison between hops and cannabis and also the craft beer and craft cannabis kind of issues. As craft beer grew, what happened, Marcus, was the big alcohol bought the craft, all the craft companies. So there are now, that's why micro brew became a thing. And now it's actually nano brew because even the micro brews are often owned by Anheuser-Busch.

2:01:36SpeakerBut to that point, it got the, and I say this, it's like, hey, if it made their beer better and it expanded and said, hey, we're Anheuser-Busch and we think we can sell that to our customers as well, then To me, that's a better world. And I think our quality of cannabis, the issue, the big issue to me is that cannabis is really complex, but growing it is just agriculture.

2:02:02SpeakerAnd as soon as we figure out the growing part, it's actually not a lot harder to grow amazing cannabis that tastes amazing and has a great effect versus complete shit. Once they figure it out, it's like you can get, I mean, I can go and buy blueberries from Chile or I can buy an apple from New Zealand and it's perfect. And it's like the whole supply chain, we can grow amazing weed for people and they can be big giant corporations that will be involved and there'll be small companies that'll be involved.

2:02:32SpeakerBut ultimately right now it's just a mess because there's so much Data and so much transition going on that people, you know, it just opens up a can of worms. But I do think like when, like, and that's one of the biggest issues for me is like, you can't hold the plant to a higher standard than other plants. So you can't blame agriculture for wanting to be involved.

2:02:54SpeakerYou can't blame business as usual for being involved because that's just the way it works. We've always tried to normalize the plant. But like we're supposed to be like the shepherds that make it through that transition to hand the plant over to those people who are going to take it anyway. Like so we have a little bit of a like protector kind of entitlement over like shaping the future industry.

2:03:17SpeakerAnd the cool thing is I think we can. I think like working with the right people, becoming successful with your brands and your genetics and all that shit really shapes the future of cannabis. So it's like, you know, I just I don't I don't think that, you know, it's all doom and gloom. I just think that it's going to be a completely different thing on the other side, you know, and that's cool because that's what we all kind of wanted.

2:03:43SpeakerYou know, it's just it's difficult to. Hold the hand through the transition and take the blows.

2:03:49Dr Mark ScialdoneBut, you know, I think if you look at if you look at like what's happened in retail in general, I mean, we've reduced it down to Costco, Walmart and Jeff Bezos. Right. I mean, the whole distribution business model. I mean, those big corporations, you talk about Mojave. Those are the ones that are basically predicated on roads and cheap gasoline for their trucks. To basically go from their fulfillment centers out to those stores and put all those goods.

2:04:22Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so like when you're in Walmart and when you're making Walmart purchase, yeah, it would be great. Like, again, I don't know when Walmart and cannabis are going to team up, but when they do, you know, it's going to be like, yeah, it's just going to be part of your shopping, right? Like, oh, I can get a pair of blue jeans. I can get motor oil. I can get, you know, a pack of chicken breasts and oh yeah, I can pick up some weed all underneath one roof because they own that distribution channel.

2:04:55Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd that's super powerful because like when you're looking at like dispensaries, like I was giving some advice to a client of mine around, you know, they're like, okay, we gotta, we gotta think about where we want to put our dispensaries. I was like, you know what, next to the BMW dealer, you know, you, Right. I mean, it's like like today in retail. I mean, you have to think about so many different patterns about like how humans purchase things and where humans go to get things.

2:05:26Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd my God, when you're sitting at the, I don't know, McDonald's drive through, let's hope you're not if you're watching the show, but you're looking at, I don't know, some sign like, hey, you know what? I'm going to go pop over to that store because I just was looking at that sign while I'm sitting here. Waiting for my kids and their Big Mac. You know, like today, retail is a completely different game.

2:05:49Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's completely different just even in the last four or five years. And I don't know. I mean, like if you're going to introduce like retail cannabis, I mean, my God, ask the companies that have put a lot of money into their dispensaries. You have to, you know, really, again, draw people in. You have to have aquariums. You have to have like nice couches and everything. What's the differentiator at cannabis retail?

2:06:19Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd ultimately, like, yeah, what are you up against? Someone just putting an $8 vape pen on their credit card, you know, that they're going to get shipped to them a day later with their Jeff Bezos package from Amazon. You know, it's a different retail marketplace. It really is.

2:06:38SpeakerYeah, and you're not even getting into predictive algorithms that actually manipulate and predict the buying patterns of the humans because it's not just about fitting in and finding your place. That's a rabbit hole that unless you're a complete and total sociopath, you probably don't really want to go down that rabbit hole.

2:06:57Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, Marcus, I don't mean to make cracks at like some celebrity branded cannabis, but I've always thought that, you know, if you need celebrity branding to sell your cannabis, Find better cannabis, right? Like, right? I mean, I should feel like that too, in a way. I mean, just like this whole branding thing. I mean, you might buy that Bob Marley jar once, right? And now, oh, you got that nice jar.

2:07:22Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat do you do with it? Put it on the shelf with all your other jars.

2:07:26SpeakerYeah. For me, I'm more interested in the branded ones that like the name means something, like a hash maker. Or a grower or both who's doing, you know what I mean? And that, and at that point it's like, uh, I think of my brand more along in the lines of that, like people are like, okay, this guy like sort of helped pioneer the water extraction thing. It's been like focused on producing quality.

2:07:51SpeakerWhat's that?

2:07:52Dr Mark ScialdoneHalf before hip hop, right?

2:07:55SpeakerRight.

2:07:56Dr Mark ScialdoneExactly.

2:07:59SpeakerYeah, well, geez, I think we've done two hours. That was pretty good for me today. I think I really appreciated the conversation. It was very natural like it was a year plus ago, just getting into it and having good discussions. And I learned things today that I didn't know that were going on. I'm definitely going to look deeper into that LA Times story, Mojave, about the vape pens and the hardware and the shit that they're putting in those.

2:08:24SpeakerThat's... That is not a good scene at all. Brian, always a pleasure, dude. I hope you come back with more flavors. We'll have another Hash Church here next Sunday. Mojave, thank you so much for your perspective and your knowledge and your stories. Love the stories when you and Brian were going back and forth. I love that old history, you know, because it really is like, You know, we need we need to get Chris Bennett back on the cannabis historian because Chris has always gone further back into the history.

2:08:56SpeakerBut I think his ability to keep history to receive these stories and to put them to pen would be a very valuable addition to to our to our community. Papa Sift, Ryan, thanks for showing up, homie. Thanks for making the good hash and fucking Maybe next time we'll talk about the differences between the Osprey and the Hashtag because you're one of the few people that have both of them in your lab and you're operating simultaneously with both of them.

2:09:24SpeakerSo we'll get you talking about that next time, dude. Dr. Mark Saldone, thank you, dude, from Vermont on the good side of town. You and Brian must not be too, too far away from one another.

2:09:37Bryan Best Friend FarmsLike four hours.

2:09:40SpeakerThat's not too bad. That's worth like a dab session. You guys should link up one of these days. And of course, Wade, thank you so much for coming, dude. Thanks for sharing your story and your vibe and your positivity. And I hope to see you guys again next week. I'm going to do it again, invite a couple of new people. If you have anyone that you're thinking of that you want to get invited on for next week, just send me an email.

2:10:01SpeakerAnd in the meantime, thank you guys, everyone on YouTube. We just went under 200 people, but we had over 200 people watching for the full two hours. So that's pretty awesome. Big thanks to Bingo Lombardi for holding down the chat and all the good folks that are in there chatting away and keeping it going and agreeing and disagreeing with us at the same time. And a big thank you to Thomas from Grandmaster LED for, you know, hooking me up with the knowledge on how I can change the view for coming in and sharing your great new Addition to the panel here on Hash Church and I will say may the full melt bless you sooner than later.

2:10:43SpeakerYou're all welcome to say goodbye and then we'll end it. Peace, everybody. Cheers. Bye, everyone.

2:10:49Bryan Best Friend FarmsThank you. Nice to talk with you, Mojave. Nice to hear from everyone.