Cannabis Advocacy and Medical Research

0:02Collin PalmerAll right, here we go.

0:04SpeakerLooks like we're stream-a-leeman. I just got to find out where we're stream-a-leeman. I'm hoping it's going to go live on the actual page. I don't think it is. I think it's going on a new page.

0:20WadeAll right. I've got YouTube open on my...

0:29SpeakerOkay, yeah, I guess it went live on the other page, so I'm still learning. Welcome, everybody, to Hash Church 5.0, Episode 2. Just going through the logistics of trying to get it all to work here. We're live in the other room, so people are starting to come over now. Oh, we got Wade waiting to get in there. We got Wade and Skunk Man Sam in the room right now.

0:55SpeakerThat's awesome. A couple of Elders.

1:01SpeakerAll right, I think that is all. There we go. Beautiful. Welcome, Wade. Welcome, Skunk Man.

1:12SpeakerHere's to another episode of Half Church.

1:15WadeHowdy, Wade. Missed you last week.

1:20SpeakerIndeed. Indeed.

1:24SpeakerYes, Sam was, Sam missed us last week. He was ready, but he wasn't ready. He was, You just, you know, sometimes it happens like that with Hash Church. Oh, started 81 seconds ago. We already got 53 people in the room. Very cool, very cool.

1:45WadeWhat's that, Sam? No, that was me playing what you said on TV.

1:54SpeakerI see, I see. Well.

1:58WadeI like to watch it on TV because it's bigger.

2:02SpeakerOh yeah, yeah, of course, for sure. I got a nice, pretty big screen. There's Wade. Got the coveralls on. I like it. That is what's up. Hopefully we're having a good Sunday today here. It was pretty stormy here last night. It was a beautiful day, probably like 85 degrees Fahrenheit all day, sunny, no clouds. And then last night it was like just wind and not so much rain, but there is a lot of cleanup to do on the, uh, On the property for sure.

2:37SpeakerBig time. How about you guys? Pretty uneventful evening, Saturday night?

2:44WadeNot too much happening.

2:48SpeakerI was pretty chill myself. I hung out with my little guy, Tanner. He's going to be turning 10 years old in a few days. And I'm taking him to his first concert in two days to Michael Franti and Spearhead. I love Michael Franci because he does all ages shows. So it's he's pretty excited about it. Not going to lie.

3:12SpeakerOh, hey, Rackham.

3:16SpeakerWe will have, well, Dr. Mark just came in. We got Gunsman Sam. We got Wade. I invited Colin from Vessel Life Sciences. He was just visiting his father in the hospital. So he'll be here A little bit late, Thomas from Grandmaster LED will be in about 10 minutes late as well. And then, you know, I didn't hear from Dr. Mark Lewis or Alec Dixon from SC Labs or Nick Ziegler, but I also put the invitation out to those guys.

3:44SpeakerI invited Mojave again if he was able to make it. So just kind of loose, whoever's able to make it, we'll have our little conversation and spend a couple hours together for Hash Church. Welcome, Dr. Mark.

3:58Dr Mark ScialdoneMarcus, how are you? Hey, Sam, missed you last week.

4:02WadeI'm doing fine.

4:03Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, you look the same.

4:07SpeakerYeah, he still got his COVID mask there.

4:12Dr Mark ScialdoneAll of us other people are, our yellow hairs are turning white and gray. Hey, Wade, how are you?

4:20SpeakerI'm good, Mark. Nice to see you. Really nice to be here. I spent yesterday, Monica and I made a big expedition and went down to the Bay Area for the Emerald Cup. They're still trying, still doing that. And boy, the California market, the business side of it is pretty bare bones at this point.

4:48SpeakerIt was lovely to see a bunch of people that I knew, a bunch of people stopped by.

4:55SpeakerBut yeah, lots and lots of people are realizing that the California market as it's currently structured is a disaster and are dropping out of it. And it's kind of a shame to see some of the legacy operators that I know who are extraordinary cultivators and uh usually compassionate medicine makers that really just there's no way in the business world to make it in california right now without literally unless you're willing to stretch the rules or ignore them that's a whole different conversation anyway it was a really lovely day for me um took a lot out of me i'm Pretty exhausted today, but I'm really looking forward to our conversation and some of the brilliant people who show up here.

5:40SpeakerThank you again. Yeah. Well, shout out to Tim Blake for 20 plus years now, the Emerald Cup. I was thinking about that the other day. He must have started that just right around when we started Legends of Hash, Sam. Because it's been 20 to 21 years of Legends of Hash as well. So kind of neat that those two events started in the very...

6:04WadeI think the first year of Legends of Hash was 2003. Is that correct? When we had the balloons?

6:11SpeakerI don't know if it was... I don't know if the balloon was the first year. It's so hard to remember shit as you get older. But I do definitely remember the balloon year. I wasn't there the balloon year. So I think that was a couple years later. But I think you're right in the sense But the first one we did was either in 02 or 03, which would put us around 21, 22 years of doing that.

6:34WadeI saved an extra balloon if you need one.

6:38SpeakerNice. Yeah, I never got a balloon. That was a neat kind of way to get a ticket to just someone's like, let's just put the ticket on the balloon. If you have the balloon, you can come in. And if you don't have the balloon, well, I'm sure we'd probably still let you in. But yeah, crazy.

6:55Dr Mark ScialdoneCrazy times. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

6:58SpeakerSee what's going on here. Just checking out the chat room. We've got 132 people watching. We had up to about 220 live last week, usually around 10 o'clock when people are getting up. But we got John Maddock, who's always in the chat room. Big, huge supporter. Rackham's Roslyn is in the chat room right now. We got Keep It Simple 420. For those of you that were wondering about the German numbers that we were discussing last week, Keep It Simple actually put it in the comment section in regards to how many members you can have, how much you can grow, the sort of breakdown for that German model that they're doing, similar to Spain, I guess.

7:40SpeakerSo that was nice of him to put in there. We got Cody Packer, OG Brick 420, Al Telescope Uranus.

7:50Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know about that, but TK Brewers in the house.

7:54SpeakerAnd yeah, just a ton of cool people. It's growing as we speak. And yeah, we'll have a few more people joining us here in a little bit. In the meantime, I think it might be time for a little rip out of the card. Loving this little guy. Unfortunately, my Puffco's. Oh, no, actually, I wonder if it started working. I think it did. I was trying to hit my Puffco the other day and it was doing the red light thing where it wasn't heating up and always nerve wracking when your little electric devices stop working.

8:28SpeakerBut oh, there we go. Oh, wow. You got the bass and everything, Sam. Let's do it. Let's have a little rip.

8:38SpeakerGet the dialogue going.

8:41Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, uh, No fish for you, Dr. Mark?

8:45SpeakerOr don't they have some huge fucking festival going on right now? I've been seeing little clips on my Twitter.

8:51Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, yeah, yeah. They are having a festival down in the hole right now. Crazy.

8:58SpeakerI saw the secret set and it looked like it was at the Sphere or something. They really stepped it up with those visuals. I can't but help. The work they did at the Sphere must have helped inspire that. You think?

9:10Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. I mean, it looked really crazy. It's up on YouTube. So you could see it.

9:17SpeakerYeah. I saw some clips. Yeah. Pretty amazing. Pretty amazing for sure. I know I saw the interview with Trey when he was talking about the Sphere shows that they were going to do and how serious they were taking it and how they were like, no one is ever going to see anything like this. Everything was unique. And Dead and Co. had a pretty incredible show. It's the same graphics every night.

9:40SpeakerFish went out on a limb and we're like, we're going to just do new graphics every minute of every night, which is, sounds about right, Fish.

9:51Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty incredible stuff to behold. Even all the dead company stuff, you know, imagery, you know, they show like neighborhoods in San Francisco and, you know, venues where they've played. It's,

10:08SpeakerDude, the neighborhood in San Francisco with the drone where it all lifts up and they go up, that was absolutely incredible. I, of course, did not make it to this year for any of the shows, but I've had many friends go. My friend Allison has been to, I don't even know how many of the shows. So she sends me little videos and stuff where I get to live vicariously through her.

10:31Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm sure you saw that guy who posted his bong hit that he took. On Instagram, right? And then the people who run the sphere are the same people who run Madison Square Garden, right? The Dolan family. And they use facial recognition software, as it turns out. You know, so when you go to Madison Square Garden and you go to any of their venues, they'll actually use facial recognition to say, hey, was this guy ever a problem at a previous event?

11:08Dr Mark ScialdoneI think he got banned from those venues, but then there was such a public outlashes for the bong rip dude.

11:21SpeakerYeah, you got to think a lot of bad shit happens at concerts, you know, there's some aggressive people and that and the other thing, but taking a bong rip at a concert would be especially one like, like Fish at the Sphere. We're like bong rips have been involved in the creation of the entire, the music, the visuals, probably the building of the sphere. I think bong rips were present all the way through.

11:49SpeakerAnd so what a silly thing to kind of... You know what, the whole...

11:53Dr Mark ScialdoneI was just going to say they have a pretty strict policy on smoking in general. I think that's trying to keep Tobacco and all that kind of stuff out. But, you know, people are still hitting vape pens. But I guess the point of having actually fire and combustion inside an event where you have some big glass bong, it's kind of like, OK, you're you snuck the bong in.

12:18Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're smoking, you're recording it, you're putting it up to the Internet. I mean, how are you not going to get in trouble?

12:26SpeakerI still support it. Civil disobedience, man. Just like Wade was saying earlier with the disaster that is the California legal cannabis scene, unless you're willing to stretch or break the rules, which is like, wow, isn't that how we got the rules in the first place? I mean, I know it is here in Canada for sure. We just like civil disobedience all day long, took them to court, won, gained this whole scene.

12:51SpeakerAnd now all the people that are involved in it because they have like licenses that they're trying to protect. Are terrified to step out of line and practice any more civil disobedience. So it's kind of a weird little corner we've painted ourselves into with this legal license.

13:10WadeLast week, I went to see Burning Spear at the Paradiso. And sure enough, you cannot smoke inside the building.

13:23SpeakerOh, my God. No puffing at Burning Spear at the Paradiso. Next, it'll be like, we really don't want you dancing. Like, if you could just take your, you know, just don't dance, please. No dancing, no puffing, no enjoying yourself. It's a reggae concert, actually. We're going to have to puff and we're going to have to dance. Burning Spear must be like close to 80 years old now.

13:44SpeakerAm I correct?

13:46WadeHe is fucking old and he's fucking great. I mean, he's quite amazing.

13:54SpeakerThat's awesome. That is so good to hear. I saw the videos that your wife put up, some of the video and some of the stuff, and he looked like he did like 30 years ago. He's just super active. He's just like, you know, he's got that, I don't know what it is, but another guy Jamaican that has that is Kid Asai, who's also got to be approaching 80 now.

14:16SpeakerIn his 70s, I got to hang out with him quite a bit, and I've just, I've never seen like a stronger 70, like just inspirational in the sense of how strong he was and how you know one night we were walking in kingston and in the city and there was this sort of i don't know like a three or a four foot ledge and i you know i was like i'm gonna jump onto this ledge and we're just walking me and kiddis and some other people and i i jump up onto this ledge and i look behind me and and kiddis is jumping onto the ledge well his foot slips off the ledge He fucking falls so hard, smashes himself so bad.

14:59SpeakerLike I was just like, oh my God, like he's going to be dead. Like he's, we're going to be going to the hospital right now. He shook that shit off, came to the concert with us that we were walking to, hung out and danced and puffed all night and had like a little bump on his forehead from where he smacked his head when he fell. But otherwise I was just like, Tony was actually there as well.

15:22SpeakerAnd even Tony said, I would have been in the hospital for a month because he was behind Kiddus watching him fall. And it was just truly a testament to the strength of the Jamaican people and how hard they work. There's something to be said for that and how active they stay as they get older because holy shit.

15:43WadeEven if he did get all mashed up, he could have just joined Israel Vibrations.

15:53SpeakerOh, that's some lowbrow humor. But you're right. I will be honest. The first time I saw Israel Vibration, and I guess it was Skully and Wiss who both had polio, who have the canes. I believe Apple was the dude that did not have it. And they came out and were dancing on these canes. It was pretty inspirational to see. I really was blown away at that. Oh, Colin's just hitting me up like crazy.

16:24SpeakerOh, he says he's in the waiting room. That's weird. I don't see anyone in the waiting room. Oh, I think he's in the waiting room of a different room. So let's see if we can figure out sending him the link to this. Oh, goodness.

16:43Dr Mark ScialdoneToo much thinking. Too much thinking.

16:49SpeakerSomeone else talk while I do some work.

16:54WadeHey, Wade, what's up?

16:59SpeakerOh, probably the most exciting thing that's going on these days for me, Sam, is I came across a paper that was published in a journal called BioFactor. I talked about it a little bit last week. Specifically, a group of researchers took three different multiple myeloma cell lines And tested the efficacy of minor phytocannabinoids against those multiple myeloma cell lines. And the fascinating thing is it turns out that CBG, as in George or golf, and CBN, as in Nancy, are both remarkably effective at Suppressing the growth of multiple myeloma, at least these three multiple myeloma cells, cell lines, and at the right dose seems to trigger cell death.

17:57SpeakerAnd it's always been fascinating to me how rigid I am dealing with cancer, given the amount of cannabis that I consume. And I realized that at least for one possibility is I don't usually confirm much CBG or CBN in my cannabis. So it's likely that I'm missing out on that opportunity. And I've since secured a bunch of CBG oil, comes in at about 50% CBG, and I'm working on sourcing some CBN Got a little bit of it delivered to me yesterday at the Emerald Cup.

18:37SpeakerAnd per Mark Sheldon's suggestion last week, I'm working on finding some manufacturers who are willing to do a special batch of oil for me based on your recommendation, Mark, of heat, oxygen, and time. That's all I got for the moment, Sam. I'm pretty excited about that. I would love to feel like I can get on board with personal experience of handling and perhaps even controlling the cancer that is eating up my bones.

19:21SpeakerWith the use of cannabis, I've been a cannabis advocate and a patient advocate for hell going on 20 some years. And yeah, I would love to be able to talk about my own personal example in this realm. Anyway, that's the news from Nevada County, California. And much love and really appreciate you calling. Welcome aboard.

19:47WadeWell, I wish all the best for you also.

19:52SpeakerThank you, Sam. That means a lot to me. I care a lot. Cheers.

20:01Collin PalmerYou're welcome, Colin. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. Great to be here again with you all. Lovely to see Mark and Wade. Awesome to see you. And David, awesome to see Cat and Hat again. And of course, Marcus. You know, Wade, I've been dealing with a family member who has Parkinson's and we're going through the gamut of cannabinoid therapy. And we have in the past, call it decade, we've been dealing with around 13 years now as a family.

20:30Collin PalmerAnd I'm seeing a lot of success with CBN for pain management, which is actually very interesting to me. Not so much with sleep, to be honest. What I found with CBN is it gets you to sleep, but doesn't help you stay asleep. So you need other constituents, and that was part of the work I did with terpene formulation to have other constituents help you stay asleep. So I don't know if that's another avenue.

20:59Collin PalmerMaybe Mark can speak on the chemistry of that, but there's been... You know, I worked with a toxicologist to really better understand how our body's interacting with terpenes and the best way to approach it in terms of percentage points. So there's a lot more to be uncovered there. But, you know, that was one thing that I spent the last, call it 18 months, just doing that type of work.

21:26Collin PalmerSo it's been really eye-opening to me. I don't know, Mark, if you've seen anything that's You know, compelling on your end in terms of the chemistry of how these constituents are coming together and how they interact with one another or coexist together.

21:40Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, what I do know, I think since the last time we've talked about this on Hash Church anyway, is that there's now published work in peer-reviewed journals on the double-blind placebo for CBN and sleep. It was always sort of anecdotal and sort of suggested and i think there was a a study uh japanese study from like i want to say the 70s or the 80s where they were looking at cbn analogs and they looked in a sleep model and that was always interpreted as these things were you know had um collagen like chlorine and fluorine and bromine and stuff like that decorating the rings All of the molecules.

22:30Dr Mark ScialdoneSo these weren't natural compounds at all, but they just looked at like how it made these mice behave in a sleep study, but it wasn't a so-called sleep study. The study that just came out, I think it came out earlier this spring. And yeah, the data is pretty compelling. I mean, even at low dose. You know, I guess there is an effect on CBN, like you said, of CBD and the other cannabinoids are in there.

23:01Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I think if I remember the efficacy from the study correctly, it was, you know, that were full spectrum oils were more effective than the isolates on their own. And they just attribute that to, yeah, there's just something else in the mix that's making this stuff work more effectively. We don't really understand what it is, but yeah, it's good to know that, you know, what was always sort of suspected anecdotally, that there's now published double blind evidence to prove what we in the cannabis community knew a long time ago, which is that CBN is good for sleep.

23:50Collin PalmerYeah, yeah, it's it's also, you know, I think there's more to be uncovered in terms of the pain management aspect of that compound. I do feel like there is some something there based on not just my own, like I have two herniated discs, for instance, I have one in my my neck and then I have a tear in my thumb. Right. When I take large amounts of it, my thumb feels normal.

24:16Collin PalmerAnd I don't know if that's, you know, and Mark, you can dispel, maybe that's placebo or maybe that's, you know, but I do, I do, this is, you know, thousands of times high dose of that same molecule.

24:29Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. I mean, there's an anti-inflammatory effect that's sort of peripheral.

24:33Collin PalmerYeah.

24:34Dr Mark ScialdoneIt could just, it could just be that kind of like the way that, you know, if you feel a headache coming on and you take some ibuprofen and all of a sudden it's like no more headache. Yeah. What, What's super interesting here, Colin, is that there's a company called InMed, which is actually taking CBN through, I think, phase three clinical trials. And I think, I want to say it's for Alzheimer's, but I don't know, maybe that's another study.

25:05Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it might be a different molecule because they have a proprietary code, but I think it's CBN or a CBN derivative. And yeah, I mean, could these things actually be like the pharmaceuticals of the future, you know, inspired by the molecules in the plant? That's kind of cool. And being able to have access to it, like here's Wade, you know, I need CBN and I needed CBG.

25:32Dr Mark ScialdoneThat should just be a formula that they should already have available for you specifically for this treatment, dosed at the right level and the products that you like. This is a no brainer. I mean, we already know that these molecules are active and more importantly, they're safe, right? It's not like, you know, you're going to die from taking these. A lot of these medications that they use to treat disease are themselves deadly.

26:00Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd that's what you end up dying from is the toxic effect from all these other things. We know that cannabinoids aren't going to do that. So it's like there should actually be at the pharmacy right now, the three to one Take sure that Wade needs or whatever. I'm just making three to one up. I don't know what the right ratio is, but you should be able to say, look, these are both non THC cannabinoids.

26:26Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm not taking this to get high. I'm not going to get behind the wheel and crash my car. I'm taking this to stay alive. Okay. Why is that not available? Right? Why is there not red all you have? Why is that not relevant?

26:42SpeakerIt's definitely stunted in the sense that you would have thought 10 years ago when we were having these conversations further down the line, it seems like medical was used as a shield to protect a lot of recreational people because and and in their defense like you're living in a country where you are a pothead you always want to have cannabis you love to smoke weed you love to smoke cash you love to get high you're going to um you know want to protect yourself if some way of protection comes up especially if you're in a prohibitive country that's like you could get years in prison or have like your Life destroyed and all you're like, well, or you could go get a license.

27:24SpeakerYeah, this doctor will get you a license. I think it's like 50 bucks or 150 bucks. And suddenly everyone's got these licenses. It seemed innocent enough, although I will say it always left a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth from a patient perspective. It's why with Hash Church, I always loved to showcase real patient perspectives. And, and, you know, I always hear Sam's words as well, in the sense that it's all of value, you know, someone who wants to get high, someone who wants to use cannabis as a medicine, like everyone should be allowed to have that.

27:56SpeakerTotally agreed. At the same time, I do believe that patients should probably take precedence and not line up behind recreational users. And so it is a little bit hard that, um, Yeah, I mean, here in Canada, this is exactly what happened. Shoppers Drug Mart, all these big companies got on. They were like, we're going to get cannabis. We're going to dispense it because we are the people who dispense medicine in Canada.

28:18SpeakerAnd medical was this big thing. People were paying huge for their licenses and facilities. And the minute recreational came in the door, I would say 80 to 90% of the companies just like dropped right out of the medical regulated scenes. And just popped right into recreational. And it was a lot. And to the point where even Shoppers Drug Mart, I mean, that's part of Loblaws, a $55 billion company.

28:47SpeakerThey are not doing cannabis in Canada anymore. They're just like, why would we try and sell? Because cannabis just, it doesn't fit in the way they want it to fit in. You know, it's like, well, we want to control it and sell it as a medicine. Like, okay, but like eventually, like we were talking about last week, it's probably going to end up at gas stations. You know, maybe it'll be that Delta-8, maybe it'll be something different, but people are simple in their cannabis in the sense that they want to get high and they want it to be inexpensive and they want it to be convenient.

29:14SpeakerAnd even my own mother who was buying from Shoppers Drug Mart at one point was just, this isn't, they don't have the flavors, they don't have the options for me. And they run out of what I do need and suddenly she ended up, you know, going to, you know, And then I think of actually recreational. So it's a bit of a bummer for the med patients how the recreational use them as a platform to get to get to where it is.

29:46Collin PalmerYeah, I think it's a good point you're bringing up because, you know, here in the States, you know, medical was employed to get the recreational to then not have to pay your doctor that, you know, It's not blanket everyone, you know, pharmacology has come a long way in terms of understanding the plant and where things are at. But a lot of these people are just here for a cash grab and that's another problem, right?

30:08Collin PalmerSo I think there's a dichotomy here that we have where we have us on legacy and enthusiasts slash, you know, researchers slash, you know, activists. I think, you know, you don't, you know, a lot of these things don't get brought into the world of, you know, I've called it corporate cannabis or regulations. And as regulations get instilled into these markets, there's not really a... There's not a group of experts talking to the constituents around them to say, hey, guys, these are the good rules and regs that allow this to work.

30:45Collin PalmerIt's very much they keep trying and trying and trying. I mean, New York is a great example of that. Ohio, you know, there's so many examples of this. And medical, for some reason, is at the back end of recreational. But that's what got us here. So I think it's really interesting how we're, you know, I think about what Sam did when he went to Europe to try to figure out what his version of all this was.

31:14Collin PalmerYou know, I often think about that and Think about when you started, you and Rob started your projects over there in Amsterdam.

31:23WadeI actually moved over here because I knew I could not continue in California and the United States. They just were not going to let it happen. It was too early.

31:34Collin PalmerYeah, so I honestly, like, I think it's weird to say this to you as we're on this together, but I think about that a lot when I try to, as we navigate here in the States and navigate even what's considered a mature, you know, I don't even want to call it a market. It's not even mature. It's very infant. No one's got it right. So we all have to come together to better understand what the right path is.

31:58Collin PalmerAnd when we're talking about medical and recreation, it's often so heavily weighted towards recreational. And I go back to one thing, and I keep thinking about patient access. And I think that's the only real reason. You don't have to go to a doctor to pay him 100 bucks to say, hey, can I go get an eighth herb? That sounds... That was kind of my comment earlier about pharmacology and pharmacobiology.

32:23Collin PalmerYes, it's very important. However, those individuals need to understand the plant and all the constituents around it and what truly matters. And then help push that forward. Maybe ask better questions or problem solve in new ways. Because As I look around where we've been and where we're going, there's just a glaring open hole of confusion as to what is therapeutics. I think we're constantly talking about pop culture within medicinal cannabis, hand over fist, and it's almost to the point where That's what runs every single state.

33:04Collin PalmerSo I think that's part of the problem is that we don't really have constituents that are fighting for medical. They just fall into this generalized world. So it's really interesting to me because I have this license in New York State and it's a rec license. But most of the individuals that I've historically serviced have been medical patients. So it's really interesting to me how this has all kind of shifted.

33:34Collin PalmerNow, Sam, do you think when you went to Europe that the idea of medical was the only Thank you for joining us.

34:00WadeIt was always medical cannabis that allowed you to explore the genetics, the inheritance, the cannabinoids, the terpenes, and that was my real, real interest in this. So yeah, in America, I just plain could not do it. Even when I got here, they approved me, but a lot of people in the ministry of health said cannabis is not a medicine it is a drug of abuse and uh i said well at least you have an open mind on the subject holy that's frightening that those you know it's not like it was just

34:44SpeakerSome random sort of a little ignorant group that was like, well, we're afraid of this. And then you could sit down with them and be like, no, look, it's actually like a really good thing. And then they could be like, oh, my God, look at that. It really is. But they're not a lot of the people on the other side of this aren't like that here in Canada.

35:00SpeakerHealth Canada still does not acknowledge that cannabis is has medical benefit and they have like Health Canada. That's like our FDA. They have. A legal medical platform that services Canadians and yet they all have come out and quoted, not all, every single person that works there, but the higher ups have come out multiple times and quoted, we don't believe there's any medical value to cannabis. We beat them in court and we forced their hand.

35:29SpeakerSo anyone that's worried about civil disobedience, yes, you can end up in court. But it can be some of the best courts that you've ever ended up in, especially if the timing is right. And it was here in Canada for all of the people, and there's too many to name, but obviously John Conroy sort of leading the fight with so many wonderful people behind him that it was, I went to some of those court cases and it was unbelievable to see The unraveling of a system that had been in play for so long.

36:04SpeakerAnd then to hear like, oh, it's going to dissent. It's like dissent. What's that? It's like, well, you know, it goes to the queen. It goes to the royal family. And through this dissent process, it's like, wow, like I'm Canadian. I didn't even realize just how deeply intertwined the Commonwealth, you know, Canada is. I mean, obviously she's on our money, but it's beyond intertwined. They make decisions in London.

36:27SpeakerFor if something's going to become legal as a medicine in Canada, Canada was just at the breaking point. There was no way anyone was going to put it back in the box. And now after so many years, I see, oh, they didn't need to put it in the box. They had this other plan where they would just be like, well, we'll just bring out recreational and then we'll just, you know, make sure that they can have the worst packaging.

36:51SpeakerYou know, like these are two totally different products in the Canadian market. You know, this is the U.S. version of this is it. And so it's like just a much nicer packaging and you can't have any packaging here. You can't have anything that really makes you look too, too different. A lot of it is just so similar. And even myself as a head, I'll walk into one of these shops and I have a hard time, like my brain doesn't want to connect that this Mylar bag is gummies and this Mylar bag is traditional hash.

37:27SpeakerAnd this Mylar bag is, you know, some bubble hash or whatever. It's just like, come on, man. We could do this so good if you let us.

37:38Collin PalmerYeah, I think it's interesting you say that because, you know, Connecticut was a market that kind of took that stance in the United States. There's a couple others that did that. Pennsylvania tried to and then it kind of fell apart. New York took the stance and then it just exploded. But, you know, to your point, yeah, we can do a lot better. You know, there's there's. Not only from a preservation perspective for the actual material, because, you know, chemistry is happening until you use it.

38:08Collin PalmerAnd, you know, it's not just that, but also like these single use CPGs, you know, we've fallen into the CPG world for a product that is just so heavily guarded. Like, you know, I talked to, you know, even People that can't open the child say this, rip the package and it's just trash. You know, like there's it's literally, you know what I mean? So it's it's really, you know, it's an opportunity, I think, for designers and young designers and young engineer designers to come and make really interesting, you know, artwork and packaging that other Thank you for joining us.

39:03Collin PalmerIt's just the backbone. So we got to get away from that. And then someone has to engineer a CPG CR top that, that doesn't utilize plastic, you know, and that's, I think that's our biggest, it's a material hurdle.

39:19SpeakerDo you know what my partners do, Colin? In DC here, my partners, Ted and Andy, they're CPG manufacturers from China. So that's kind of what they do. They build machines and they're really good at it. They've been helping us. I do a bunch of different projects and we've got this machine and it's the old, it's the old tuna cans, but they have a ceramic, ceramic on the inside of the can.

39:44SpeakerSo it's not even really, it's not touching metal, but they have this crazy machine that seals these cans up and they're all ceramic on the inside. It's pretty wild to witness this thing going. Just for me, I mean, I don't know how many of you ever saw weed in the tuna can. I thought it was pretty standard. There's always one group that was doing it in some market.

40:03SpeakerBut here in BC, back in, they used to have the tuna cans and they, the flour was called the tuna that went into it. And so it was like easy to ship, moved around real good, preserved it really nice. You could crack the top. And then obviously you would end up having like a plastic top after that if you wanted to make it reusable. But kind of a cool concept.

40:26SpeakerProbably could do with silicone top at this point in time. But yeah, not so easy to escape plastic these days. A lot of people are wearing it on their bodies, like all of those Lululemon pants and all of those yoga pants. That's all like forever chemicals leaching into your body through basically like synthetic woven materials.

40:46Collin PalmerYeah, no, it's well said, man, because it's, I've been going through it myself. Like, you know, I've been working on packaging and it's, there's just not a lot of great solutions. You have to either spend a lot of money on it or to be willing to get in line and just do whatever. Even these, like I have these jars here, which are the potbacks, right? Some blueberry banana in here.

41:06Collin PalmerAnd there's just, you know, this is a plastic top with a metal piece here. Sure, it sucks the air out of it and it keeps it preserved, but You know, this is at the heart of everything. This is glass with, I'd say, 70% of materials that are going to break down over a long set point. So I think that's an opportunity, I think, for everyone around us to think about that.

41:34Collin PalmerYou know, because every single time someone, you know, like blasts through these jars like nothing. You know, I have boxes full of empty jars. So, you know, I think the biggest problem we have is that. And then, you know, Mark, I wanted to ask you this. I've been looking at aspergillus quite a lot. And I was starting to look at tobacco, not to change subjects here too much.

41:57Collin PalmerAnd I was wondering, there's no evidence whatsoever in tobacco that those dried leaves have been tested for aspergillus. So in your opinion or anyone's opinion here, has anyone ever looked at this? Because I'm starting to look at it because I'm starting to ask questions. Why are we held to such a flame if things around us are not? And what are we doing to better understand it and the actual constituents that are harmful versus this blanketed statement that it's all harmful?

42:32Collin PalmerAnd what are your thoughts on that? Because I feel... I feel like certain markets are being suppressed of great material based on unknowns that aren't defined in testing.

42:48Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, so the question is what, like, is tobacco tested for for aspergillus? And yeah, and yeah, can it succumb? I think it can't. There's so there is a

43:05Dr Mark Scialdonefungicides that are used to treat fungus on tobacco. And it's, you know, again, super interesting to think about, you know, what was required for that company to be able to register products to be able to be applied to tobacco, right? Because supposedly you have to show, you know, Low environmental impact at the use rates. You have to show, you know, safety in all kinds of studies, including, you know, again, just efficacy, safety studies on all the metabolites.

43:50Dr Mark ScialdoneBut it's just really difficult, I guess, to think about doing that for cannabis because they'd have to show all that data. on cannabis which is schedule one right and so how do you it yeah so it's not a level playing field and tobacco in and of itself so the the nicotinamides and all those things those things are potent insecticides as they are in fact yeah i mean a homemade uh you know a little recipe to control Flying insects on the farm was always just take a little bit of chewing tobacco, soak it in water and then use that to spray down dumpsters and shit like that where you have flies in the summertime.

44:35Dr Mark ScialdoneBut, you know, at the end of the day, Colin, it's like a whole different thing because as Marcus will tell you, there's 10 other things in cigarettes that'll kill you. It's like, how do you determine whether or not the, the, the, I think it's easy to know that radium-226 is very, very dangerous. I've been talking about it for 30 plus years in the production of tobacco. But it goes down really smooth.

45:21SpeakerIt goes down really smooth. All right. Well, it's mutating all your DNA. No, it's on Health Canada's website. They actually have radium 226. They have the breakdown of polonium 210 and lead 210, which are kind of two of the many thousands of different things that are created when you burn it. And they talk about that they are radioactive nucleotides and that they mutate DNA. And I just couldn't believe that they actually have that.

45:48SpeakerOn a Health Canada website, because for the last 35 years, David Malmo Levine has written extensive articles on the use of radium 226 in the production of tobacco and how very, very, very bad it is. You know, just if you were if you had to get rid of one, that would be a good one.

46:09Collin PalmerYeah, that would be a really good one. You know, the reason I bring it up, Marcus and Mark and everyone else is it's it's really I feel like there's a lot of, you know, Terravera is a is a product out there that people have used. It's it's a bacteria that eats the bacteria. The Aspergillus apparently, and I don't know enough about it. I've never used the product, although we've spoken to four or five farmers that have sworn by this product and said that this is what works for them.

46:38Collin PalmerI just am weary of products. You know, I'm weary of the idea of this product works, Teravera, right? It's a fungus? What is it? I think we should do some research before I blurt out what it is because I don't exactly know what it's made of. But we've spoken to a bunch of growers that are in New York and other states that have been growing outdoors and they swear by this product.

47:03Collin PalmerThey say that they're able to pass, they ask the labs to plate their material rather than just run based, you know, The, the, the, the normal way that they run the samples. So, um, I'm not sure, you know, over, I'm not sure what I'm after is everyone's opinion on this product and what, What do we, you know, how do we approach this as we move forward? Because this is not a problem.

47:31Dr Mark ScialdoneLet me understand for a second. So it's like a nutrient? It's not, is it a soil? Or what exactly is it? It's a spray.

47:38Collin PalmerApparently you spray on the plant. And it's like a, it's a foliar spray. And you spray it, you know, I think it's a, you put it apart of your IPM management. And, you know, as a hash maker, I'm extremely weary of anyone that tells me that they're like, yeah, you know, we get in there and put this on our stuff. You know, it's going to come out fantastic.

48:00Collin PalmerThe resin is going to be great because usually the resin is not great and it's contaminated and nasty. So it's something I think for just the general conversation to kind of research and look into. But I do think it's an ongoing problem that is just Everyone I speak to in Oregon is dealing with this. Everyone I speak to on the East Coast is dealing with this. And it's not going away.

48:27Collin PalmerSo I think we just need to problem solve and start talking to each other about what the solutions are, if there are any. Is it genetics? Do we need to start looking at certain pools? Is it this product that I'm mentioning? Or is it something else? How do we, or is it testing? Do we need to go back?

48:46Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, let's, let's go there for a second. So like, like the way that they're testing now, which is for PCR, right? They're just basically finding, finding the DNA, right? And that doesn't tell you that, that the fungus is alive and well. And I remember, I think this was maybe 2019 or maybe 2020, right before the pandemic, we were looking at, All of these failures for aspergillus. They were all hemp crops and all of them were actually grown organically and some of them on Amish farms in the New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland area.

49:25Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I could tell you the material itself looked proper, but we wondered again, we're like, oh, look at these hits for aspergillus. What does actually this mean, you know? And it's like, yeah, it's after the fact. It doesn't actually mean that Aspergillus is alive. It just meant at some point in time during that plant sample life, Aspergillus lived there. It's, you know, I don't know like how much is too much.

49:58Collin PalmerWell, that's what I'm getting at that, you know, that, We need to better understand and define at what point is it harmful and is it harmful? Because yeah, I get on there's certain patients or certain consumers that have autoimmune disease, so they're at risk, right? But have we actually proven that they are at risk? And why are we taking whole lots of I think that's what I'm kind of asking is like, well, is there a better way?

50:29Collin PalmerI think there has to be a better way is what I'm getting at. I know that there's got to be some people together that can figure out the right

50:53Collin PalmerAnd then on top of that, the right protocols and right IPM to manage the plants and the cultivation aspect. Because all of it has to work together.

51:02WadeYou've got to remember that aspergillus is found in the air. Right. Everywhere worldwide. And so, you know, if you're growing outdoors, you're good. If they can't find a spore of Axis regulus on your plants, it's probably because they haven't looked hard enough. They're airborne. They're everywhere.

51:25Collin PalmerRight. So for me, it just begs the question, are we going too far on the parts per million? Are we... Because like, all right, let's bring it real back outside the industry. We've all been growing before any of these data points, right? Any of this is what we understood, right? So I know I've smoked moldy cannabis in my time. I know all of us have, right? We seem to be okay.

51:52Collin PalmerSure, there's a threshold of whether or not it's healthy or not. We understand you're not supposed to do that. But there is a small window and a possibility that at certain times you're ingesting it. So if that's the narrative or the theme here, at what point, what is the parts per million? Because I think about this a lot because there's huge lots of material that you just can't work with because it's just, it's failed, you know?

52:23Collin PalmerSo, and then it has to go through this remediation process. And then I wonder if that remediation, that radiation process, which then goes back into someone's body, how does that, you know what I'm saying? Like we're, we're going through radiation and then we have dead, we have dead material now sitting on organic material.

52:45Collin PalmerSo I'm just, I'm just trying to drum up the thought process from Mark and others that, you know, we're, we've got, we've gotten ourselves into sort of this weird dichotomy where we're like, well, let's kill it, but then, okay, you can actually smoke it because it's dead now. Yeah. You know, and but we're ruining the material in the experience for the consumer. And then all of a sudden people think this is what cannabis is.

53:07Collin PalmerRight. So it just it's kind of it's nuts. You know what I mean? So I just wanted to bring that up because it's something we're all dealing with right now today. And, you know, we know that's not what good herb is.

53:21Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, we live in a microbial world and actually without microbes, I don't think the plant would exist as we know it today. Right. Because the plant The plant doesn't fix nitrogen, right? But the microbes in the soil do, and it needs nitrogen for amino acids and proteins and, you know, those enzymes, all those synthases, those are made of, you know, nitrogen and amino acids. But to go back to something you were saying earlier, I mean, it's like, kind of like, have we gone too far?

53:56Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, Just in terms of like analytical instrumentation, yeah, I mean, we have the ability to see down to the part per trillion level is amazing if you think about it. I mean, this is like space age kind of technology, but, you know, if you're applying that to cannabis or any, you know, agriculturally produced product, you're going to find all kinds of shit in there just because It's in there.

54:27Dr Mark ScialdoneIt doesn't mean it's dangerous at the level that it's in there. And yeah, like we were looking, Richard Rose a couple of weeks ago made reference to something that was posted on LinkedIn about a Japanese referendum that they were trying to push forward where they were going to legalize CBD, but it had to be able to be shown to be point. Let me get this right. Oh, oh, oh, oh, one, two, three, four, one percent or less THC.

55:07Dr Mark ScialdoneSo a couple of analytical chemists, you know, we're like looking at this going, my God. So something that's point. OK, let me count. One, two, three. Oh, oh, oh, two would fail or even three.

55:27Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it's like, how are you going to distinguish between something that's, you know, just a hair over such a spot? It's like in the noise of the data, it's ridiculous. It's, it's, it, it, you basically, you can't do it, but you know, like in prohibition, I don't know if it's, I don't know, Sam, what do you think, man? Like, You know, even like when Mishulam did his analytical data, like most of like what he was doing is he was looking at the different compounds that were in the plant.

56:02Dr Mark ScialdoneHe was able to look down at say 0.01%, but to be able to get down to 0.0001% is not only an analytical challenge, it's just, it's ridiculous to think that you'd be able to Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

56:48SpeakerFailing in Illinois and then getting cooked, like irradiated or, you know, whatever the process is. I guess there's a couple of different processes for cleaning out these fails. Shocking.

57:03Collin PalmerYeah, Brett is a good grower. So, you know, that's also the interesting thing, I think, about the markets that we are in in the States is that You know, a lot of us move around from market to market and seeing the shift in the requirements that they ask of us. And, you know, like I learned in mass that it was nearly impossible to do a certain style of growing that I wanted to do just based on the rules and regs.

57:33Collin PalmerAnd you have to rejig what you once thought was the way and you have to adapt. And that's it's really tough to deal with that.

57:42SpeakerSmoke Sense makes a good point in the chat call and he's saying, how does the tobacco industry deal with Aspergillus? Because that's where the MSOs are probably going to look for ways to mitigate Aspergillus, unfortunately.

57:55WadeThat's to pay off the politicians.

57:59Dr Mark ScialdoneThey apply a fungicide. They apply this stuff called Macazone. There are a few products that are EPA registered that they can apply. To control fungus. But I'll tell you what, I don't know if anyone has ever been to like a tobacco farm when they hang that tobacco in the in the barns and hang it in these barns that actually have wings that can fold out. So like they could let air in there.

58:32Dr Mark ScialdoneMy God, if you walk up to the edge of that barn, it is intoxicating the air that's in there. Oh my God, like if you're a non-tobacco user, non-cigarette smoker, you could seriously, you could faint just from the effluent coming from a tobacco farm. It's toxic.

58:53Collin PalmerRyan, Ryan Crazier. Yeah, mass weed is weird. I've actually yet to find jarable flour in the state that smokes with any flavor. It's really tough.

59:06Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's really insane because you would think Greg is working for for mass provisions there. Aren't they growing good weed where Greg's at?

59:16Collin PalmerSometimes I think I think scale is hard, you know, even with the best people at the scale, because once it leaves your hands, another department takes it and that department you maybe talk to in the hallway, but you're not running that team. Right. And then it goes to a trim team and that trim team does a thing and then it goes to a bin and then It's like blow the wind.

59:39Collin PalmerIt's really hard. I think, listen, I think no matter where you are in my just my just talking personal experience, it really it's everyone has to synergistically be working together and really want that same goal to have that make it make sense. And it's as I've gotten in bigger and bigger and bigger scenarios, it just it falls the black after certain, you know, at certain scale, because it's hard to keep everybody, you know, All of these guys are chasing the same dragon, you know, like everyone chasing that quality and like wanting that the best is, you know, it's hard, man.

1:00:15Collin PalmerYou know. I wish. I wish I could say that it was easier, but I do think that Greg's growing some phenomenal weed over there. I will give him props big time because he's one of the few.

1:00:28Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's Meg Sanders, who I know from 10 years ago used to do the Mindful, which was the grow right across the street from the Denver Police Station. It was always great to see the Denver Police Station, this huge three-story building with all these cop cars. And it just stunk like weed there, like there was no tomorrow. And their grower there was Philip Tiarra Rojo, who I don't know where he is these days, but that's where Kind Bill and the Kind Bill crew was first making live resin.

1:01:03Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, about 10 years ago, if I remember correctly. Yeah. DK Brewer.

1:01:10Collin PalmerYeah, I think, you know, BK Brewer is commenting on smash hits. He's saying he didn't have a great experience. But I think, you know, like, I've had, I've had good experience with his Chem 4. His Chem DS1 that he ran over there was really good. But I haven't really paid attention so much. But there's some great growers in the state. And I know, I think, again, it's just hard to hit every batch every time.

1:01:33Collin PalmerSo I commend everyone when they can do that well. You know, it's a tough one. But but there's some, you know, I think there's some amazing growers on the East Coast that are, you know, coming back home from the West Coast, you know, so it's it's good to see it. Yeah. In time, we'll see. We'll see better and better.

1:01:57Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, yeah, we got some help.

1:02:01Collin PalmerI think it's coming. I think we're in a big shift right now. I think there's. I think there's a big shift happening. I think there's going to be, it's going to take a little time, but I think, you know, I'm building a grow right now. I know others are building grows that are meant to crank out quality herb. You know, I think it'll happen. It's just, it's just time right now.

1:02:22Collin PalmerWe got to, we got to be patient. And it's never been easier to grow your own herb. That's the other thing I say to everybody out here is it's literally never been easier. I mean, I used to, I think that's where I encourage everyone to go and stay with, you know, grow it, wash it, you know, learn about it. And I think that's the other narrative that, you know, everyone's looking for someone to just like sell them good herb.

1:02:47Collin PalmerWell,

1:03:02Collin PalmerIt's not that difficult to grow your own good herb if you just spend a little time. You know, get some good lights like the LED Grandmaster LED. You know, those guys make some of the best lights I've ever seen. Get one of those. Get some HPS if you're a traditionalist, you know.

1:03:21SpeakerDude, the Borg that I have does the HPS spectrum.

1:03:26Collin PalmerThere you go.

1:03:28SpeakerAnd it's an LED light. It's pretty wild. There's 500 spectrums in it. It's actually beyond too much. Many, many, many, many, many people need to get these lights because the data points are going to come from all the people who use it. Totally. You know? PK Brewer. How can you understand?

1:03:47Collin PalmerYeah. No, I think that's the most important thing to get across with LEDs right now is like most people are like, oh, LEDs aren't as good. Well... I don't know. I think it's really about you can't just expect you to change your lighting spectrum and then not change your nutrient and your regiments and things that go along with that and expect it all to be the same.

1:04:06Collin PalmerYou have to kind of take a look at the lights and then there's certain things that you might need to do differently, such as feeding or temperatures might need to be different or humidity might need to be different due to the spectrum. So that's one of the biggest learning curves that we went through when we were switching from HPS to LED and then doing ultimately running rooms that were both.

1:04:31Collin PalmerOne was HPS, one was LED and just kind of pitting it against each other for data points and trying to learn what varietals responded best to what spectrums. That was a whole, I spent three years trying to figure that out. And that's one thing that I encourage everyone to do is don't just listen to what everyone says. Try it for yourself and see what works for you because you might be holding a varietal that for whatever reason might respond in a way that that what everything in my stable doesn't.

1:04:59Collin PalmerYou know, so I think it's really important to to not be so rigid about what you're told. Go and try it. You know, break stuff and then try again.

1:05:15Collin PalmerSo, but, uh, yeah, I mean, you know, New York, someone said in the chat in New York, there's a bunch of hemp growers. Yeah, they were, they were a bunch of hemp growers, but I think you have to understand that New York, if we had just allowed it to kind of go with just the ROs, yeah, probably would have had some, some structure there that, that, uh, That would have allowed things to be a bit smoother, but I honestly don't believe that anyone would even have an opportunity other than them.

1:05:44Collin PalmerSo those that are in the chat talking about that, just remind yourself that New York is filled with the biggest of the biggest capitalists. So you got to understand that it's only going to get more and more crazy. But keep in mind, it's going to shape up to be a great market.

1:06:06SpeakerI was looking for this picture that I think it was Muffin Mittens or Mitten Muffins. I can't remember his name. He was growing with the Borg and he just used different spectrums and it was the same cut in the same room with all being fed the same shit. And this is what they looked like. That's the same cut.

1:06:37Collin PalmerIn different spectrum, right?

1:06:40SpeakerYeah, in the same room.

1:06:42Collin PalmerYeah. Yeah, it's exactly, this is exactly what we're, exactly what I was talking about.

1:06:48SpeakerKind of blew my mind, man. Like you could play around and really get the plant to express itself. I mean, first of all, 500 spectrums. I'm not sure what Thomas was thinking. That is so absolutely insane. But it's nice to be able to play around and have that sort of, Flexibility in your own little tent or grow where you just, I think it's a great idea from an R&D standpoint, even at the most basic, basic, like in Canada, for instance, if you grow a cultivar that's under 20%, you'll have a hard time selling it.

1:07:21SpeakerSo if you had a cultivar that came out in like 17 or 18%, it's very likely that you could play around with the spectrum in an R&D room and bump that up to like, That 20%. Now that's a very basic sort of story. But when you get into the actual volatile organic compounds and the flavor profiles and the different ratios of those flavor profiles, then it becomes like, you know, incredibly interesting and a very unique rabbit hole to go down in the sense of like, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to play with these spectrums.

1:07:55SpeakerAnd it's not like you're just going to grow one spectrum light, right? Like in the, in the early part of your crop, you'll have a lot of blue to keep it from stretching. Now, if you have say a part of your crop that maybe gets fucked up in some way, It gets affected. There's always, you know, it's great to have an even canopy, but sometimes you don't have an even canopy and you've got that little dip.

1:08:17SpeakerAnd now you can bring in that 730 far red and just turn it on in that section and get those plants to stretch up a little bit and catch up to the rest of the canopy. You could use that HPS spectrum throughout the middle of the grow. You could, there's just so many different endless things that you could do when you have even just 10 or 20 spectrums, let alone And then 500 just makes it like an impossible road for one person to deal with.

1:08:44SpeakerIt's going to be like 100,000 people that figure out those data points.

1:08:48Collin PalmerYeah, we I mean, we saw I mean, I saw a lot of different cannabinoid spikes in terms of just the spread on testing, like high numbers of THCV upwards to 6%. It was nuts. Like, you know, the LEDs produced We had a run that was like CBG was like 3.7% with THCV in the 6.8% range. And then when I made a vape card out of it, it was in the THCV popped at like 10.112 or something like that.

1:09:24Collin PalmerAnd it was just a stacked, like the extracts, the hash that I made was just stacked with all these miners that I'd never seen before. And that was actually from Rosetta Stone. And it made me think it was the genius that held a lot of those miners. But, you know, I don't know if anybody on here has grown genius, but genius is one of those ones that has a lot of miners that are just not present in a lot of contemporary cultivars.

1:09:54Collin PalmerIt's really interesting.

1:09:57SpeakerYeah, our love of THC really washed a lot of those miners right off the board, didn't it?

1:10:03Collin PalmerYeah, it's kind of been nice.

1:10:04SpeakerMaybe our lack of understanding too.

1:10:07Collin PalmerYeah, and like the different, the different experiences you have from all these varietals, you know, like I, a lot of the stuff I've been, I've kept in my, my clone stable, like, like the genius. Like I, even when I pop new stuff, I don't see the same spread of cannabinoids at all. So I was telling you, Marcus, I was starting to pop some of those old, those older varietals that I have, even stuff from Shanti.

1:10:31Collin PalmerI have like the mango haze times skunk one and a bunch of like Afghan one times skunk one. And that's all the, all of original Shanti stuff. And like when you used to pack them on the little straw tubes and then like seal them, you know, and put the little sticker on them. So I don't know, Sam, I don't know if you remember this, because you knew Shanti fairly well.

1:10:55Collin PalmerI don't know if you knew what stock he used, but some of that stuff is really viable. Like I'm popping like 15 seeds at a time and all 15 are still popping. So it's pretty big.

1:11:10WadeI've gotten seeds that I had under refrigeration for more than 30 years, 96% germination.

1:11:19Collin PalmerYeah, that's kind of what I'm seeing. That's awesome.

1:11:23WadeYeah.

1:11:24Collin PalmerSo I'll keep you guys.

1:11:25SpeakerI had a Jamaican, a Jamaican one. Actually, Johnny B grew it and he put it in a frame. It's an old bud now, but yeah, this is a Johnny B bud. Of the some Jamaican seed that I had brought back, it was like a lamb's bread. You know, they were calling it lamb's bread, meaning it was it had those those sativa flavors. Doesn't look sativa at all.

1:11:49SpeakerLooks cushy the way John grew it here in Canada. But this is 25 years old, this seed. I collected it in 95 when I finally popped it. It was 25 years later and it was the only one of eight. I had about a 7%.

1:12:06SpeakerGermination ratio from the seeds I collected, but I didn't keep them in a fridge for at least like 10 years, so.

1:12:13WadeYeah, if you want to keep them safe, you keep them at maybe plus four degrees centigrade. You know, I mean, that's cool, but it's not freezing.

1:12:24SpeakerYeah. No, that's the fridge. That's where they've spent. That's where it's spent, you know, 15 years of its life after kind of being at room temperature for almost 10 years.

1:12:35Collin PalmerSomeone asked me yesterday, Sam, what do you think about refrigerators versus freezers? Someone asked me yesterday, do they put it in a fridge?

1:12:45WadeIf you're going to keep your seeds for really, really long times, freezing them seems to last longer. If you're going to use them in your lifetime, You can keep them at plus four degrees centigrade in a dry, if the ultimate container is like a container which you flush to remove the oxygen. So it's in like argon gas or nitrogen or something like that. Getting rid of oxygen for long-term storage of seeds helps them a lot.

1:13:22SpeakerInteresting.

1:13:24Collin PalmerWell, so it sounds like. Yeah. I wonder if the bottom packs that are sealed have that little bit of air in there. I wonder if that's working against it. You know.

1:13:39SpeakerDred was asking about your thoughts, Sam, in regards to the seeds that Todd McCormick has been selling, the skunks, etc.

1:13:50WadeHe got the mothers and fathers he picked out From me. And I have nothing to do with this business other than he seems to be doing a good job of it and keeping skunk number one available to the masses that want it.

1:14:13SpeakerNice. That's awesome.

1:14:17SpeakerYou got to keep skunk number one available to the masses that want it. I mean, there's a bunch that don't even want it, so they should probably keep circulating the globe.

1:14:29Collin PalmerIs Greg McAllister, the Greg, the Northern Light McAllister?

1:14:33WadeYes, he is. Okay. Hi, Greg.

1:14:38Collin PalmerThanks for your contribution to the gene pool, my man. It's a beautiful plant. I know a lot of us have grown it.

1:14:51Collin PalmerI'm actually starting to go through some of the old Northern Light seeds right now that I've gotten. A lot of them are reproductions, but I'm curious to see how they all turn out, how they look similar or different. Just started like cataloging. We're going to populate probably like 13 different breeders that have their Northern Lights.

1:15:12WadeAnd one is Todd has Northern Lights directly, old seeds from Greg. So we just got those from him, like, I think, a few months ago, that was like, maybe Murphy's from from up in Washington was like one of the first Afghanis on the West Coast.

1:15:39Collin PalmerGot it. And then we have the Afghan one from Mel. That's a really interesting one.

1:15:46WadeIt's hard to find. It's got much darker green leaves.

1:15:51Collin PalmerYeah. That one, I'm curious to see the difference between that varietal and some of the other Afghans that are out there.

1:16:01WadeIt's quite similar to some other Afghans I've seen.

1:16:05Collin PalmerInteresting. So interesting flavor profile on it. It's very, you know, depending on how you run it, but it's got like a sweet musky skunk to it. It's interesting.

1:16:19WadeTo me, it almost smells narcotic, but whatever.

1:16:23Collin PalmerI like it. A lot of people like the hash from it. Makes great hash.

1:16:29SpeakerGoing back to that Northern Lights, the first seeds I bought in Amsterdam were actually the Northern Lights No. 5, the Closet Queen. I brought those back and grew them in a little false wall grow room in our house in Winnipeg, Manitoba. The Northern Lights No. 5. I'm pretty sure it was No. 5, Closet Queen.

1:16:53Collin PalmerYeah, that was my first experience with Northern Lights, with No. 5. Someone sent me a... A clone named Crippy. And it was clearly, you know, there's a northern, you can see when it grew, the leaves are huge, man. It was like Jurassic Park. It was like the biggest leaves I've ever seen in my life. And yeah, it was a really good herb. It was like, they called it the Crippy.

1:17:18Collin PalmerThe Crippy. Just in northern lights, you know.

1:17:23SpeakerGood memories, man. I do miss the days of like rolling up to Amsterdam when it was the only game in town in the world for cannabis people to just kind of feel a little, whether it was partial ignorance, partial whatever, going to the cannabis cup right next to the PAX party house, the PAX party house right next to the police station. So it's just all cop cars and cops coming and going the whole time.

1:17:49WadeThey were actually in the same building, so they were closer than next door.

1:17:54SpeakerYeah, yeah, exactly. Oh my God.

1:17:58Collin PalmerWhat a time. What a time. It's awesome though. I mean, Sam, like, you know, when you, when you started going over to Amsterdam, you know, was Ben Donkers like one of the first people you'd spoken to who was selling seeds or who was, who was one of the... Well, Ben had just started because when I came over, it was in the 85s.

1:18:21WadeAnd there was one or two sort of amateur seed companies. It was, Ben was not publicly selling seeds yet. Got it.

1:18:32Collin PalmerSo who, who were the guys? Like when you rolled into town, like who was like someone that you're like, yeah.

1:18:37WadeWell, there was the, the boat down on the, on the, In front of the harbor there in Amsterdam. What were they called? Lowland Seed Company. But they didn't have any truly great varieties. And also there was a gay lady called Dr. Weed who used to sell seeds here in Holland. This was, you know, before... They were being done by Bernard at Positronics or anybody else. That's awesome.

1:19:21SpeakerThat's what I was going to ask about Bernard and where he was at and that, but I guess he came a little later.

1:19:29WadeThe end effect of it was none of the varieties they were growing were truly, truly outstanding, great cannabis. They made THC a little bit and Yeah, it changed a lot once they got really good seeds, you know, that performed really well. The only problem is here in Holland is we have a fairly early winter with cold and wet. So you got to have a solution for that.

1:20:04Collin PalmerSo is that where like early girl and early pearl and all those like early varietals kind of that concept of like, well, they need to finish sooner?

1:20:14WadeYes, there was also a bunch of Dutch varieties that were very early. So sometimes people would cross Skunk or some other higher THC variety with early Dutch varieties to try to get something, you know. Like some Friesland. Yeah, because there was that stuff, Purple Pars, a bunch of Dutch varieties actually. And, but You know, their THC levels, I would presume were below 10%.

1:20:47Collin PalmerGot it. Interesting. So really, I mean, when you guys rolled into town, you brought the goods that kind of allowed everyone to outcross with better genetics.

1:21:00WadeWhatever. I never cared what people did with my seeds. I just wanted to give them a good product that they could run with if they wanted to. And if they made hybrids, you know, Brian and Andy with me. And, you know, it helped a lot of varieties worldwide in the early 80s and 90s. And then other varieties started coming up strong and heavy and, you know. But Greg's a good friend of mine.

1:21:33WadeNorthern Lights, yeah, his was probably right up there with Skunk. And maybe original Hayes, which a lot of people really liked.

1:21:45SpeakerHe's asking you if it was a crime what Neville did to Ed Rosenthal's seed collection. Greg is.

1:21:53WadeNeville did what to Ed Rosenthal?

1:21:56SpeakerI'm not sure. Greg is saying, Sam, was it a crime what Neville did to Ed Rosenthal's seed collection?

1:22:05WadeI don't know what Ed Rosenthal's seed collection was.

1:22:10SpeakerYeah, I'm not sure either. Maybe he'll hear you say that and he'll be a little bit more specific on the question.

1:22:16WadeYeah, is he talking about old Ed or is he talking about Ed Rosenthal?

1:22:22SpeakerNo, no, because he said Ed Rosenthal, so not old Ed.

1:22:27WadeWell, I never knew of Ed Rosenthal having a serious seed collection.

1:22:36Collin PalmerYeah, I don't know. Yeah, neither did I, but. Perhaps we're, if we don't know something, maybe he knows something. I always thought Ed was, I don't know. I always thought he was a writer. He's an educator.

1:22:52WadeAll you need to do is ask Ed.

1:22:56Collin PalmerYeah, true. I like that pun, man. That was funny. I actually have some seeds from Ed that he sent me. I got them last year from him. So he is making seeds, I guess.

1:23:15SpeakerI remember years ago he had cultivars. I can't remember like J something or P41. They were all, you know, named like that. That was quite a while ago, maybe 25 years or 20 years ago.

1:23:29Collin PalmerShout out to Rotten Skateboards, Lobster Farms. What's up, buddy?

1:23:35WadeThe Durban poison that I used to grow starting in the mid-70s in California before I brought it over here, it actually originated at the Transke Coffee Shop in Amsterdam. Ed Rosenthal was there. In maybe 1980 or 81 or something, he got the seeds from a package of weed, South African, Durban poison, and brought it back and gave them to his writing partner at the time, Mel Franks.

1:24:21WadeAnd Mel Franks shared them with me. And when I got them from Mel, every plant was intersex. So it took me three or four or five years to clean it up. And then it was my earliest drug variety sativa that I had up until the 80s or 90s. So South African, I did get indirectly from Ed, even though I got the seeds themselves from From now.

1:24:55SpeakerNice to hear those stories right from your mouth, dude, because you would not believe how many reiterations there are of that story.

1:25:05Collin PalmerI was going to ask about the Durban. Like, so you're saying, if I'm just going to recap this, so it's, so you worked the line to make sure it didn't, it didn't harm.

1:25:16WadeYes, because what, what had happened is, uh, Mel Frank had reproduced them, or I think he gave some to a friend who reproduced them before I got them. And he said he accidentally gave me the ones that were intersexed because he didn't know. And his friend wasn't very... You know, literate on the subject, so he didn't understand either. But a few years of work, I would have to grow large numbers out, select the ones that were the least intersexed.

1:25:56WadeAnd then I did that a few years and use the progeny that had the lowest incidence and I almost got rid of it completely.

1:26:07Collin PalmerIt's interesting you say that. I've actually only had, with true Durban lines, I've had such terrible luck with them. I've had only when they're outcrossed a couple times have they been something I can go all the way through.

1:26:22WadeI've seen a lot of Durbans that were different than the ones that Ed brought back. The ones that I'm talking about are extremely early, like you can harvest at the end of August in California. So they were very, very early and they had a very strong anisey, licoricey type taste and smell.

1:26:51Collin PalmerBut they were they really resonance because the ones that I grew were super resonance, but they're just really the ones that they were fairly resonance.

1:26:58WadeYes, I never considered it super a quality, but it was very good and it was early as fuck. I mean, I could pull a skunk plant out of the ground. I mean, excuse me, a South African plant when it was done in California in my little greenhouse. I could stick a skunk plant in there. A month or two later, it would be done. And then I could stick a haze plant in.

1:27:28WadeSo I could use the same hole three times in a row with just natural sun photo period.

1:27:34Collin PalmerNice. That's cool. Well, yeah, that's, I, I've, yeah, like I said, I've, I've been, I've over the years had trouble with Durban's, um, low potency is one of the main themes that I've gotten, but like, they look incredible and the resin looks insane. Um, and, but they're finicky and then they hurt a lot. So we've always kind of stayed away from them.

1:27:56WadeWell, I, I, I don't know if it's the same or somebody else's because I've seen three or four different versions of, uh, I was, I mean, I could grow a crop of 20,000 plants outdoors in the Netherlands. It was really early.

1:28:24Collin PalmerThat's pretty cool.

1:28:24SpeakerSo this, this guy in chat is saying that it's purple Hindu that you're talking about, Sam, not Durban poison. He says Durban poison doesn't have that terpene that you mentioned. He also,

1:28:36WadeWell, he can think whatever he wants, but as you know, I know my terpenes pretty well. We had our own gas cryptography lab with FID and we could identify a terpene in the blink of an eye.

1:28:54SpeakerYeah, no, I just love to see people like not realize who you are and like he's still going. He's like land races won't be early.

1:29:03WadeOkay, well, I'm happy for his opinion on life. But my versions of the facts aren't going to change.

1:29:14Collin PalmerWhat are you guys smoking on?

1:29:15SpeakerWell, your versions on the facts are based on reality and his are based on reading. And so there's a difference.

1:29:24WadeWell, there are a lot of, you know, land race varieties, especially Ecuadorian ones that are extremely late. Look at Hayes, which originated in Columbia. I mean, it's late as hell.

1:29:38Collin PalmerYeah, it's true.

1:29:45Collin PalmerIt's true. So, Sam, the Super Sativa Club, Hayes, you'd be the one to ask, where do you believe that came from? Because I've been told so many different things and I don't know what to believe.

1:30:03WadeThey were doing growing and then they shifted into seed production. It must have been, I don't know, in the mid-80s.

1:30:14Collin PalmerOkay. So basically used your stock and others and blended.

1:30:19WadeThey used any good stock they could find from themselves, from any friends. I was happy to sell them all my varieties because I didn't reproduce them pure. What they did was they made hybrids with them. He was responsible for Friesland, right?

1:30:42WadeI think Friesland might have been even here before him, but you can clarify it with him. He's still selling organic tab stuff.

1:30:54Collin PalmerI noticed his sons restarted the seed company.

1:30:57WadeYeah, it's in Amsterdam someplace. I've never been there, but I don't go out very much. Yeah. Yeah.

1:31:07SpeakerI get to see them. I get to see them every once in a while. I bump into.

1:31:12WadeI've seen them in Spain was the last time I saw them.

1:31:15SpeakerYep, that's the last time I saw the dad. But the last time I saw the son was in Berlin at the Mary Jane conference or Mary Jane, whatever they call it, Mary Jane.

1:31:32SpeakerPretty good. He's always got great hash to share. He's just a happy dude. And he's definitely like a quality guy. He's got the quality.

1:31:40Collin PalmerSeemed like a good group of people. I just was curious the lineage. I don't, you know, you just don't know.

1:31:49WadeThey were the competition for Neville and his seed.

1:31:59WadeYeah, his distribution. They've been around as long as him.

1:32:04Collin PalmerGot it.

1:32:05SpeakerThat's cool. And did they both get their, like some of their seeds from you?

1:32:10Collin PalmerYeah, that's what I'm trying to get at.

1:32:12SpeakerNo, of course. That's funny. Let's both get seeds from Sam and then we'll like become competition for one another.

1:32:20WadeWell, I started my seed a decade earlier than they did.

1:32:27Collin PalmerWow. Yeah.

1:32:36SpeakerSo interesting.

1:32:38Collin PalmerYeah, I think. I think the German sounds legit, too. Smoke, smoke, shine, smoke signs.

1:32:49SpeakerSince since like since the meal.

1:32:57SpeakerAs he's ripping a dab.

1:33:00Collin PalmerWhat's everybody talking on right now? What do you got in your jars? I want to hear it in the chat here. Someone said they got some papaya. Boom. Press key. Yeah, their work isn't very good, my man, PK Brewer.

1:33:16SpeakerBut there's some good stuff out there.

1:33:19Collin PalmerBig shout out to

1:33:24SpeakerAll the growers out there.

1:33:25Collin PalmerIt's going to be a tough season out there on the East Coast for those that are growing outdoor.

1:33:33SpeakerReally, eh?

1:33:35Collin PalmerIt's a hurricane season right now.

1:33:36SpeakerOoh, honey bananas. Love that shit. Yeah, there's like a rainstorm happening in Ontario and like this is like a lake throughout the entire city.

1:33:45Collin PalmerYeah, it's just humid out. So anything, all that aspergillus that we're talking about starting to, starting to set in.

1:33:56SpeakerDrew Roberts says, him and his son have been watching Hash Church together since it began. I'm grateful for this. He actually started it with a Jesus. I missed the Jesus.

1:34:07Collin PalmerWe're grateful for you.

1:34:10SpeakerYeah, exactly. We've got 264 people watching live right now, which is a pretty good number. When Hash Church was at its peak, I think it was around like 1,100.

1:34:20Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I think last week we had maybe 225 or

1:34:26SpeakerNice to see there's this core group of people that kind of want to hear, you know, specific things and conversations that we seem to just love to have. I know that it is the Emerald Cup right now, so that's that's where Mojave is right now. That's probably where quite a few people are in regards to that. Poor Thomas from Grandmaster LED had a like a pipe burst on his property that he's dealing with frantically right now.

1:34:53SpeakerSo we'll wish him Quick and speedy pipe fix for that. That's, oof, that can be stressful when the water's coming out at like, I don't know, a thousand gallons an hour or something ridiculous. Gotta get it fixed.

1:35:11Collin PalmerThis blueberry banana's got these esters in it that just reminds me of just older, it's like a 50-50 of like, of blueberry and organ kids, like, You know, Banana OG. It's really, really well done.

1:35:32Collin PalmerBig shout out to Golden State Banana. He grew this.

1:35:36SpeakerWe washed it.

1:35:38Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, yeah.

1:35:38SpeakerGolden State Banana. Can I ask Sam what his advice would be to someone starting their first indoor grow? Holy shit.

1:35:47WadeTo be honest, I'm the wrong person to ask. And that's what I was thinking. I use the sun or I use the sun through a greenhouse glass. But yeah, I wouldn't want to give advice because I'm not current with lights. I'm not current with a lot of things that are required. And I never really liked indoor growing because I like putting my hands in the earth and my head under the sun.

1:36:23Collin PalmerYeah, that makes sense.

1:36:24SpeakerPlus, you're very far down the road. It's like, you know, sometimes if you want to ask kind of like a question like that, you'd be like, well, let's just, you don't need to ask an expert by any means. Just ask someone who has like a, who's had a small grow or whatever, which I'm sure there's many people here in the chat room who can help that gentleman answer his question.

1:36:45SpeakerHow would he go about his first grow? I personally would say get a small tent. You know, do some research on light, figure it out if you want HPS or LED, feel free to reach out to me and I can have a discussion with you about lights, bcbubbleman.icloud.com. And just start slow and, you know, get some good genetics. That's kind of the hard part. Like I would say, like, make sure that what you're going to spend your months on growing are like really good genetics, not just someone's version of like they said these were really good genetics.

1:37:16SpeakerMake sure like the reviews are there. Make sure the source is correct. And that you're not getting scammed on your seeds or your clones or however you're going to get your genetics. And then I would say as a first time grower, and if you're in the US in particular, definitely look at those tarantula predators from Grandmaster because that UVC light just as a preventative for five minutes a day when the lights are all off and you're not in there and the tent's all closed up, That's a huge advantage to a beginner grower.

1:37:47SpeakerWhen you're a beginner grower, if you can kind of just keep bugs and mildew at bay, that is going to give you a pretty large advantage. I know that... What's that?

1:38:01Collin PalmerGrant, Grant Waiter said, lol, grow big bud. You know what? That generally made me laugh because I'll be honest. I'll raise my hand here. I've grown big bud. Literally, when I was a teenager, I grew big bud and dude, I grew fat coal as the size of two liter bottles. Literally, it looked like big fat coal. Two liter bottle colas, man. So if that's your first experience growing weed, that'll light your world on fire, man.

1:38:27Collin PalmerBecause it certainly did to me.

1:38:28SpeakerIt definitely gets you excited. I'll tell you that I remember in 99 or 2000, I took Gypsy Nirvana to the Sunshine Coast to my buddy's place who was growing the BC hash plant. And, you know, the top buds on that plant are literally like bigger than a two liter pop bottle. The bottom buds I have pictures of Gypsy leaning his head in and the bottom buds of these plants are about the size of his head.

1:38:54SpeakerIt was like a 10 by 10 room that the guy pulled out like three pounds or something like it was absolutely insane weed. But that was also the cut. If you ever remembered that this that you could get in trouble if you weren't supposed to have it and you started posting it online that you had it. So it was like it came from a very specific group of people.

1:39:17SpeakerAnd if you're growing it and it didn't want you to be, then that can bring you the wrong attention.

1:39:23Collin PalmerYeah.

1:39:25WadeIt's impossible to stop the spread of cannabis because it works by the cannabis osmosis theory. You know, wherever it's needed, it goes.

1:39:38SpeakerYeah.

1:39:38WadeAnd it seems to be needed everywhere.

1:39:43SpeakerHey, listen, even the first time I went to Jamaica, and I made bubble hash, every I make this hash with this group, I'd be all stoked. And then, you know, after about five or 10 minutes, they'd be like, you can't show anyone else. And I was like, Oh, dude, I'm literally going to show everyone else. And there was a lot of people that asked me that not to show anyone else in particular places.

1:40:07SpeakerBut Jamaica was like a high There was a high percentage of people. It's a more difficult time. There's less opportunity. You know, people have it rough in certain places. And I was showing some people that really did have it rough. But I always said, you know what? No, don't worry about that. I'm going to show everyone. You just hone in on the best that you can find and grow and make the best that you can.

1:40:28SpeakerAnd that's how you'll stand out with it. And to my word, I did keep showing people and boy, I damn near did show everyone.

1:40:37WadeMarcus, in the mid 80s, people said to me, you know, just sell me your skunk number one, nobody else.

1:40:51SpeakerI think it's just the fear and scarcity vibe. We all fall victim to it sometimes. I'm certainly not judging people for having the fear and scarcity. It's a good vibe to change and convert or Transfer into Love and Abundance if you can figure it out. But yeah.

1:41:13SpeakerThat's all I'll say about that. Don't grow it. Just me. I'm the only one. Just sell me the skunk number one.

1:41:23Collin PalmerNope.

1:41:24SpeakerGonna have to sell it to everyone. Sorry.

1:41:27WadeEveryone.

1:41:29SpeakerAnd then we all have our stories. Like skunk number one. That was like the first weed I bought In a Dutch coffee shop on the Damrock, like literally like got off the, out of the train station, walked up, turned left, bam, sitting down 1995 for me. And we went and bought some skunk number one and we were just, uh, just loving it. It's this fruity explosion of flavor and smell and just, it was just lovely.

1:42:02SpeakerReally, really, really lovely, especially coming from Winnipeg, Manitoba and kind of growing weed already where it was like you could really get in trouble and end up in prison with like hardened criminals if you got caught, which was. I mean, it goes to show about that cannabis osmosis and how it really almost infects the soul in the way that it's like we're we're a part of each other now, like willing to like just.

1:42:29SpeakerThe risk at that time in my life, I would not have taken that risk for anything else. The risk of like getting in trouble and ending up in a prison, not a jail, a prison with like the most hardened criminals that you could possibly imagine. We'll get my old mentor Ron Hickey in here one of these days and get him to tell some stories of his experience at the Stony Mountain Penitentiary because it is absolutely bonkers that they put someone who just loves flowers in a prison like that for 11 years.

1:42:59SpeakerIt's bonkers. And I know that there's worse stories. I know Rick DeLisi's father was away for, oh God, I think it was 37 years. We'll have to get them to come on Hash Church for sure. Rick and his, his father to tell those stories. And I mean, I've heard them from Rick and I've seen Rick tell them and been in rooms when he's been interviewed, but I've never met his father.

1:43:22SpeakerSo, and I was definitely like one of the early adopters of the free DeLisi, Promoting it as much as I could, giving it exposure the best that I could because I just thought it was one of the most nightmarish stories, you know, when he told me I haven't seen my dad without plexiglass like since I was 11 years old.

1:43:40WadeIf he would have been sentenced, if he would have been sentenced federally, he would have been released earlier. But because he was in the state of Florida and his sentencing was controlled by the Florida judicial system, they were never going to let him go until I guess finally they did during COVID.

1:44:04Collin PalmerYeah, I have a friend I grew up with that was let out. In COVID, she ran an incredible, she was a, I consider her, I'll just say Gretch, she was a visionary. She had the whole East Coast on lock. It was just incredible. She was a visionary. And Gretch taught me a lot. And, you know, she was a visionary for where we're at today in terms of logistics and how herb moved around and who grew it and how it was grown and respect behind the herb and everything.

1:44:37Collin PalmerHow she aggregated it and allowed it to get to the people. It was really interesting. So I think those are the people that paved the way for where certainly I think we all sit today in a lot of respect. It's how traditionally we all called our buddy to get a good bag of herb. Or in some of us, how we communicated with one another to trade cuttings or to grow herb to get it out to people.

1:45:04Collin PalmerAnd I think that was also a Like the Underground Railroad, if you will, of our community. And I think we all protected one another in ways that allowed us to get, you know, do what we're doing today. And she was definitely someone that I looked at as an inspiration. And I think Delisi is also in that way, in that same light. He was a visionary. He had a vision for what he was doing in a different way.

1:45:34Collin PalmerMuch like David, you know, David, you with your genetics and what you did in Amsterdam, you know, very much visionary and how that shaped what we're doing now. You know, I'm very thankful for all of it. You know, it really helps me because I get to have, you know, something to look back to. And I know all of us here. Share that same common thread, you know, like for Mark Scaldone, you know, Dr. Mark, you know, you have certainly taken that work and created your own world in which you occupy and continue to push it.

1:46:13WadeYou know, my longest goal has been that every person in every country Thank you. Thank you.

1:46:49Collin PalmerYeah. And like in the chat, like Bear Grows It, if you've been growing since 92, then you understand what I've been through in New York and you understand what others like us have been through on the East Coast, especially in Vermont and other states. You know, it was really tough. And it must be a trip just like it is for me, for you to walk around and see how open it is, especially in New York.

1:47:15Collin PalmerIt's nuts.

1:47:17WadeLatest thing that opened in Amsterdam is there's now a Snoop Dogg coffee shop. I saw that. I did see that. The prices are at the higher end, but I mean, Jesus, if you want to smoke Snoop's weed, I guess you got to pay for it.

1:47:40SpeakerI guess so, man. Dude, I heard the Olympics paid him 500 grand a day to just go and like comment on the Olympics and hang out and be seen. And like the dude is, he's something else, man. He's definitely like being himself out there in the world.

1:47:57WadeI'm glad to hear he hasn't sold out.

1:48:04SpeakerOh, yeah.

1:48:05Collin PalmerYeah, he's certainly not getting it from the streets.

1:48:09SpeakerI'll tell you that. Oh, my God.

1:48:17SpeakerWell, you know, on a side note, he is releasing an album with Dr. Dre here very soon. I did hear that the other day.

1:48:25Dr Mark ScialdoneThey get to revisit.

1:48:28Collin PalmerBig love, Bear Groza. Big love to you, man. I think the chat needs a dab. That's what I think.

1:48:38WadeMy wife likes listening to some of Snoop's songs. I've heard a few I like. So I have nothing against him. More power to him. For anybody who can be successful at cannabis, I'm happy for them.

1:48:55SpeakerWell, he's definitely a spokesman for it in the sense that he's helping normalize the mainstream use of it.

1:49:04Collin PalmerYeah, I think that's well said. I mean, let's face it, one ad of him saying, I'm not smoking, or whatever the ad was, I can't remember, but he was talking about how he's going to quit smoking. And then it was an ad for a smokeless. Yeah, that was crazy. Yeah.

1:49:26SpeakerDid you see the custom torch they had him built to carry the flame? It's shaped like a joint. Look at that thing, man. It looks totally like a joint.

1:49:39Collin PalmerIt's legit.

1:49:42SpeakerYeah, that's not photoshopped at all, by the way.

1:49:44Collin PalmerThat's real, 100%. Right there.

1:49:50SpeakerOh, fuck. Just being silly. Thought I had to laugh.

1:49:56Collin PalmerDr. Mark, what are you smoking over there?

1:50:02Dr Mark ScialdoneGot this little cartridge here, but here I want to shout out my friend Adam at Mendocino Grasslands, a mutual friend. He dropped me off a little bit of this. Nice. Yeah.

1:50:20Collin PalmerBig shout out to Mendocino.

1:50:21Dr Mark ScialdoneA little bit of that, a little bit of that.

1:50:24Collin PalmerAnd Ian, the whole crew over there.

1:50:33SpeakerDred's asking us to talk about our thoughts on HLVD epidemic, but I think we should do an episode on that. And I'll get like Ian from High Labs who used to be over at SEGRA and some other people. Maybe we can get Kevin McKernan in. I have been trying to get him in for like the last two weeks. I've been sending him messages. So hopefully he sees one of those and we can get him in.

1:50:55SpeakerAnd then anyone else that you guys in the chat or in the panel think that would be great for a conversation on HLVD? Just tell us your thoughts on the HLVD epidemic.

1:51:09Collin PalmerI mean, I've been doing work with that.

1:51:13WadeI forget who did the paper, but recently a paper came out that showed that maybe it was the guy at Guelph University. I'm not sure. And it showed that it's transmitted by not only insects and tools and people, but it can be spread by pollen. It can be spread by seeds. So, you know, this is and one of the biggest warnings is if you're using any sort of aquaponics thing, it can spread in aquaponics totally easy if one of them's got it.

1:51:54Collin PalmerYou can spread through water. We didn't realize that before. So I started with Kevin in late 2018 when I got a sample and that's what started the whole thing. He built the whole assay off of that one sample. So he collected more samples and then built more. So I think it would be great to have him on so you could go through the data. Like I actually have full spreadsheets with the data, but I think it would be better for him to break it down because there's certain things I don't understand about the data.

1:52:27Collin PalmerBut we We learned a lot. I did a leafhopper study where I put plants in one greenhouse that were closed off and sealed and one that was open in a plant that was close to that greenhouse. And the leafhoppers tested positive for hoplite and thyroid. So we'll I think Kevin can go through a lot of that. I can go through my data points and explain it all, but pretty much every vector that you can think of that is transmittable by touch, it is possible.

1:53:03Collin PalmerAnd then furthermore, water is another carrier that we didn't at first believe was real. Cool. Tools, roots, soil touch, gloves. I mean, you name it. Everything. It's nuts. It's a virus.

1:53:21SpeakerAll of reality.

1:53:23Collin PalmerYou're going to die. You're going to vaporize in the HVALD. But no, you can't treat it like that. You can't look at it. It's not doomsday. It's just you have to be aware of your surroundings and just bake it into your SOPs now. I'm just... Wash your hands. Use bleach. ISO will not kill the virus. You have to bleach it. Test your plants and just continue to be a good steward and check all those boxes for yourself.

1:53:53Collin PalmerAnd you shouldn't have any problems. But if you're taking clones from other people, you should have a protocol that that first goes out to sampling and get that tested for that. And then Test for all 12 of the viroids that we know, the cucumber viroid. There's others besides hoplite and viroid.

1:54:12WadeI have a list of 29 viruses that have been recorded in cannabis.

1:54:18Collin PalmerWow. So I recommend just like everything, quarantine everything and also get it tested with QPCR. And that's the best you're going to do and just constantly keep your stuff clean.

1:54:33SpeakerWell, I think we should try and get our conversation going in the next couple of weeks if you want to help me, Colin, organize the names and stuff. Obviously, Kevin's on there. Maybe someone wrote in the chat, Dr. Joe Ramahi and Dr. Gupta at Medical Genomics as well. Get a whole crew of some interesting folks to discuss it. I'd like to learn more about kind of the cutting edge and what's going on right now.

1:54:57WadeI'll look for that recent paper I'm thinking about and I'll include the names and send them to you, Marcus.

1:55:05Collin PalmerOh, thank you. That'd be great. Yeah, there's a there's a few people that are really taking this on with some really great studies. And there's also some really great existing stuff that's out there that that predates You know, all of us. So there's a lot to dig into. I think it'd be great. So I'll put together a list for you guys of names and we'll, it'll be a great conversation because it's, it's such a deep one.

1:55:31Collin PalmerIt's, it's kind of, it's fascinating what we're learning. It's just at first we kind of thought this was like maybe not real. And then all of a sudden it just kind of snowballed into, okay, this is real, but what do we do to, I better understand how it's actually happening.

1:55:50WadeYou found rusted mites were bad.

1:55:54Collin PalmerThat's another topic I'd love to get on, actually, because to be honest, in my whole career of growing, I've never been able to eradicate rusted mites. I know people have told me they have, but I've never seen it. I've never experienced it in my career. The best I've done is walk into a room with a flamethrower and take everything out and then shut it down. And we just, there's no, there's no fighting it.

1:56:19Collin PalmerThey're absolutely.

1:56:21WadeWhat you can do is you can control the economic damage they're causing enough that you can still harvest your crop without it being severely damaged. Sure. But, but, uh, Yeah, I've never been able to even completely eliminate two-spotted spider mite from a large greenhouse. Once you get it, good luck. I mean, you can control it, absolutely, you know, with predators. But, yeah, you don't get them all.

1:56:57Collin PalmerYeah, I mean, I... And we're really, to be honest, like, extremely... just on top of everything so it's you know we experienced it three years ago and i'll never forget it because it was like it was a burn it was really it was the point where i'm like we just we can't we just have to take it all down you can't can't do it um but i do think that um we should bring i'd love to bring someone on to talk about ipm and just like it'd be great a great conversation

1:57:27SpeakerYeah, we, we, I have access to a young guy and I can't remember what his name is, but Thomas brought him up to show him that UVC light. Um, and he's kind of this, you know, IPM genius in the cannabis world. Young kid. I met him. He was really nice. What's that?

1:57:43Dr Mark ScialdoneMatt Gates.

1:57:45SpeakerOh yeah, it was Matt. You're right. So there you go. Perfect. So we, I'm sure we can get Matt on easy enough and, uh,

1:57:51Collin PalmerSome other folks tried like UVB, UVBA. None of that stuff had fully worked for me. I mean, I, I, yeah, but it sounded like, um, the Grandmaster Lady setup was a little bit different than the setups that I had used. Marcus, remember we had that call, we talked about it. Where we had tried it and we had saw some, some success, but not to the point of like what Grandmaster had had.

1:58:21Collin PalmerYeah. It's, it's been interesting to say the least. Yeah.

1:58:27SpeakerI'm, uh, I think we have homework though for next week. If we can kind of, uh, you know, put, put some lists together for a, for a unique discussion. I'm definitely down to stay consistent and keep gathering on Sundays and invite more people in and have, uh, Have more conversations. I am going to cut it short now being 11. We did two hours. So I want to thank everyone for coming.

1:58:48SpeakerWade, as always, a pleasure. Skunk Man Sam, so happy to have you back, sir. Dr. Mark, it's always great to hear what you have to say and share. And Colin, thanks. Thanks for coming in, dude. I hope to see you guys all. Next week, and we'll put together some more people. I just want to be compiling lists of great people for different discussions that we can just, you know, kind of start scheduling a couple, two, three weeks ahead of time and have something to look forward to.

1:59:16SpeakerSo as always, the full mouth bless your bowl sooner than later. And I want to thank everyone for coming out today and thank you all in the chat. I guess there's 255 of you hanging out and we really, really appreciate it. So Thank you so much. Have fun at the Emerald Cup everybody. And shout out to Tim Blake for just continuing to crush that event all these years later.

1:59:42SpeakerPeace out everybody.