Puffco and the Normalization of Dab Culture

0:19SpeakerAll right.

0:21BubblemanLooks like we're going live here. Welcome, everybody. Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Bubble Man here. We're at Hash Church 5.0 episode or episode 16. Sorry. Hash Church 5.0 episode 16. Super stoked today. Let me just turn off some of the extra audios that I'm getting. There we go. And there we are, another Sunday morning. The hashtag is true. Howdy, howdy, skunk man. Sam, how you doing? I'm alive.

0:57BubblemanDude, alive is everything. And we're damn glad to have you. We got a bunch of new folks today. So we're going to be introducing you guys to a bunch of new folks, some old friends, some new friends. Pretty stoked on this, this experience, actually, you know, to give you kind of guys a little bit of a background without getting into it too much. I've always had a deep and super fond appreciation for Puffco and Puffco products.

1:25BubblemanBut for whatever reason, I manifested the most insane experience where me and Roger just didn't meet the way we were supposed to meet. We had a really, Alice is smiling because she was there and she remembers it. I saw it, I saw it. You saw it. So we had a really kind of uncomfortable experience and there was some other things going on in the background. Anyway, all of that is put to rest.

1:47BubblemanWe're developing our friendship and I thought what better way to do it than to invite Jolly Roger onto Hash Church. And discuss, you know, sort of all things Puffco, the normalization of dab culture, you know, creating equipment that connects the super head to the newbie brand new person that's never, you know, enjoyed dabs or extracts of any kind. And so that's kind of what the show is going to be about today.

2:16BubblemanAnd we got some amazing hash makers in here. So we're going to talk about our love and our obsession of hash and sort of, you know, I kind of see the, I kind of feel like I've been a part of that normalization, even though what I really did was I focused more on developing the heads, you know, giving the heads the tools that they needed to push their passions forward into extractions and all of these wonderful things.

2:41BubblemanBut what Puffco has done as they've done this normalization with everyone else, which is really kind of, you know, I thought I was doing the hard work when I was doing it. I think the much harder work is bringing this to the mainstream. And so I'm super stoked. I want to welcome everyone. I see Frosty and Jess is in the house. Alice is in the house. We got Bastogonia, some new folks, Juliana, I believe from Columbia, if I'm correct.

3:08BubblemanAm I correct? Awesome. Awesome. Put that together. Etienne Fontaine is in the house. And we love you, Etienne. We're so happy that you joined us again today. I think we're going to have a really nice episode here today. I'm just going to let in Dr. Mark and Roger. And here we will go. Let me just get on here for a quick little second. Awesome. All right, Dr. Mark's in the house.

3:34BubblemanJolly Roger's in the house. You guys both came in with the toques. I like it. And the glasses and the beard, actually. Holy shit. Welcome, welcome. So I just did a small little introduction, Roger, kind of talking about how you and I never really connected. We kind of, when we finally did, it was just an absolute blast. You know, blow up silliness. And I, of course, apologize for that.

3:57BubblemanThat was on me for sure. But here we are putting all of that to rest. And we've invited you into Hash Church. And I'm super excited to talk to you today, as well as all the awesome hash makers that we have here. So I'm not really sure how to exactly open it up. So I figured maybe why don't we start with what we're puffing and load up the puff goes.

4:21BubblemanThat seems like a good way. I see Wook Sauce is in the background with Alice. What's up, Wook? What's up? Good, man. Another Sunday morning. So yeah, you guys are all over the place. I can only imagine where everyone is. But if everyone, you know, maybe we'll start with a little introduction from Bastogonia, your new face. I haven't had you on Hash Church before. Why don't you tell us where you're at and what you're puffing on, homie?

4:49SpeakerHi, Marcus. I'm Bastian from Chile, from Patagonia. And it's a pleasure to talk with all of you. Sorry about my English, but I put my best effort to try to talk with all of you. And I just want to say hi to everything and a pleasure to share this moment with all of you.

5:13BubblemanAwesome, dude. Well, welcome. We're super stoked to have you here. Your English is absolutely wonderful, and I can understand everything you're saying. What are you puffing on?

5:24SpeakerActually, I'm puffing Sour D and Sherbanger from Harry Pond. I love the old taste, like sour. For me, it's the daily smoke.

5:41BubblemanWonderful. Wonderful. Well, we'll be hitting that up real soon. What about yourself, Alice? What are you and Wooksauce puffing on over yonder?

5:51SpeakerWe're about to puff. I'm puffing a spliffy, I won't deny. A long tip spliffy. Well, we have actually this awesome device going on because I think we're out of butane. Oh, yeah. Saved us. Just saved us. So we're out of butane. So we're about to puff. I don't know. Why are you going to puff, babe?

6:09Collin PalmerI think, yeah. Actually. What was actually in there, if I'm honest?

6:14SpeakerIt's a Terp Wizard. This guy gave us a jar. I met this guy in the airport and he randomly gave me a jar coming here to Brazil.

6:23BubblemanThat's a great place to get a jar.

6:25SpeakerYeah, it was after security, you know, it was after SFO security. I was like, oh, great. Got a job.

6:30BubblemanSo he even took it through security for you.

6:33SpeakerHe did. We're actually here in Brazil. We're about, we're coming back to United States tomorrow. We're here in Brazil for the expo and super excited to be with y'all. Super nice to be with you, Marcus here, everyone here, but also to see you and Roger. With the brand new start.

6:50BubblemanYeah, we're going to crush this hash church out for sure, for sure. Frosty, what are you guys puffing on over there? I see you digging around in a jar, cracking open a jar.

6:57SpeakerWe're smoking Skittles, some Wook Sauce, and Simply Adam. Oh, geez. Just that, hey? Yeah, we wanted, we got, we like to smoke a lot of different stuff, so.

7:11BubblemanYeah. Well, we're really glad to have you guys here. It's been a while since I saw you guys, probably Barcelona, like a year or two ago, maybe. Yeah, it's always good times out there.

7:22SpeakerThank you so much for having us. We're super grateful.

7:24BubblemanOh yeah, no, this is going to be good. I'm really excited to get into all of this because, uh, You know, for me, dabbing for the last, well, I didn't really, I guess, I guess I didn't really start dabbing until probably around 2007 or 8. A friend of mine from out east was really intent on, I was still like Skunk Man Sam dabbing, right? We were using matches, we were putting it over the full melt bubble and vaporizing it.

7:49BubblemanThis was the super archaic way. We had I had seen the mayor in the late 80s, early 90s from the Kootenays. These guys had bent a spoon over a blowtorch that heated up with a bell over top of that. This is like late 80s oil dabbing. It was a little bit rough. It was a little bit archaic. It scared the shit out of people because we didn't have, we didn't have torches that looked like this.

8:11BubblemanWe had propane canisters with giant torch heads and we looked like, you know, meth and crack heads when we rolled up to parties. People would legitimately be like, what the fuck are those guys doing over there? Like that is like, Something different. So, you know, 2007, 2008, but prior to that, thanks to Skunk Man Sam, thanks to hearing that if it don't bubble, it ain't worth the trouble in 95 when Rob put the Ruhr bong in my hand at the Cannabis Cup, Rob Clark, that got my brain going, what What is this bubble?

8:39BubblemanIt won't, it ain't with the, why did this hash melt into a liquid? Like, I don't understand. And it was a three to four year journey before I would acquire and create that for myself. And then another seven to eight more years, you know, to really understand dabbing culture. I was talking to Nick Atiyah on here, maybe last week or the week before. And we were sort of talking because Nick Atiyah was a big proponent in coining the term solventless, but also in, Really explaining and educating, mostly Colorado at the time, because that was really where it was blowing up.

9:12BubblemanAnd dabs in 2007 or 8 was basically BHO. That's what if you said, hey, you want to smoke some dabs? People were like, oh, he's got BHO. Nick was really like, no, like dabs can also be solventless. And then he coined the term solventless, which is up there on my quiver behind me. So shout out to Nickity. Let's ask Juliana where she's at, what she's smoking on today.

9:37BubblemanA little quick introduction and then I'm going to get into some questions for Jolly Roger and we're going to get into this conversation.

9:44SpeakerRight now I'm smoking the first place for Full Moon Argentina. That, yes, this is from Manusil Solventes. He is from Argentina and it's his own strain. The name is The Washer. Really nice hash, really beautiful, dry sieve, static. Yes, really like chantilly cream tarts with some coffee beans. Very, very nice.

10:11BubblemanThat is awesome. Sam, truly, you got to tell me what it feels like when you hear a person from Colombia talking about a guy from Argentina and he's making beautiful static sifted dry sift. What do you think when you hear that?

10:26SpeakerI think everybody should do it.

10:30BubblemanWell, dude, you've been doing it for 35 plus years, which is just mind blowing when you really think about it.

10:38SpeakerWell, what's mind-blowing is not that I was making dry sift, which people like in Afghanistan and other places have been doing for a thousand years maybe, but I was cleaning it up so that it was dry sift from Simpsonia and it was 99.9% heads. Now that's the difference and that's why it bubbles.

11:06BubblemanYeah. Well, it's also why the first time I smoked your hash and I had heard many, many times Rob Clark be like, oh, I left Sam's house. So I was so stoned last night. I was kind of like younger, you know, and I was kind of like, well, How stoned could you possibly be? Like, come on. Like, it's just hash. Like, how stoned could you get? In the first time I went to his house, I will be honest, I was so terrified that I was going to pass out, shit myself, or throw up.

11:34BubblemanThat's how high I was. I had never experienced a high like that before. And when I left his house, and the man has the most insane stares to get out of his house, I thought I was going to roll down them. I don't even remember going down them. And when I was walking down his street... Thank you so much for joining us.

12:04BubblemanOh, that's what he was talking about. Because when I heard it, my ego just wouldn't accept it. I was kind of like, well, come on, I'm a hardcore. I smoke the best hash in the world. Indeed, I was not. And indeed, I did not until I met Sam. So shout out to you for really being an inspiration to so many of us.

12:24SpeakerI have to say, I'm on oxygen now. So I have trouble getting up and down my steps.

12:31BubblemanYeah, age is a motherfucker.

12:33SpeakerI've just heard That's from the government today that it looks like I'm going to get one of those little chairs that goes up the stairs. So hopefully that will help me a lot.

12:48BubblemanWell, we love to hear that, Sam. And if there's anything me or the community can do to help make that happen, dude. You know that we will do it. We, man, I'll do anything for you. You've been a huge friend and a huge mentor. And I'm just so blessed and happy that you come and share your time with us every Sunday. Thank God you're in Amsterdam. I mean, although you do wake up at like four in the morning, but it's six o'clock in Amsterdam.

13:14BubblemanSo it's a reasonable time for Sam to pop in and speak of the devil, right? As we're speaking about awesome, amazing elders that I love and adore. Wade Laughter comes into the room, who's another just, you know, person that just tugs at my heartstrings every time he speaks. He's just, he, I feel like Wade is the voice of reason of Hash Church. Welcome, Wade. Happy to have you here, brother.

13:39BubblemanAnd I see Ice Gourmet's in the house. I was under the impression that you may not be able to show up today, Ice Gourmet. So welcome, brother. Love to see you got your equipment right behind you there. And you're like, you're ready to wash a batch right now, dude.

13:54WadeYeah, thank you. It's a pleasure you invite me in this meeting. Sorry for my English, it's so bad. But I stay here for support all the community, all the hash movement. And thank you to Juliana for bringing this invitation and this opportunity and share the time with all the friends in the hash lovers. No, we're happy to have you here. Now you stay here in my lab and you see a bit of my equipment.

14:28WadeAnd this is the equipment I'm using right now for wash. Thank you so much for joining us.

14:56BubblemanHow well I speak your language.

14:58WadeI know you understand me. I know perfectly it's not possible to talk with the correct verb, you know, but I put all my energy for bringing all my information, all the things it's possible to bring here in this meeting.

15:19BubblemanWell, we're going to get into it for sure, because really, when you think about it, It's everything that we all do as hash makers that Roger has taken into account and plugged into the production of these tools that is also now, you know, the thing that I'm most excited about is how mainstream it is and how You know, when I first got them, I was like, oh, this is kind of like fancy and looks all like it looks like they put a lot of time and effort into the styling.

15:46BubblemanI'm more like, how well does it work? How convenient is it? But when I go see it in a store like my daughter works about five minutes away in a dispensary just down the street here at Happy Isle Cannabis, and they've got Puffco's on display inside the store for sale. And they just like I can only imagine. What that looks like to a person who's barely ever, they're like, oh, I tried a gummy once and I had a sip of a beverage and, you know, now I'm going to, now I'm going to get into trying this.

16:14BubblemanSo, oh, we've got another gentleman that just came in, Mark Hammond. Welcome, Mark. If you want to give yourself just a quick little hello, tell us what you're puffing and where you're at.

16:24MarkWhat's going on, y'all? My name is Mark. I'm one of the co-founders here at Koya Extracts. I'm up in Oregon right now at my parents' smoking on some Zazaya from our single source. I have a nice little Puffco 3D XL. Come on. Happy Sunday, y'all.

16:38BubblemanDude, I know your brother. I've met your brother before.

16:41MarkHell yeah. Come on. He's out in New York right now.

16:45BubblemanOkay, but he's Oregon, right? He's Oregon-based?

16:47MarkOkay, for sure.

16:48BubblemanOkay, right on, dude. Well, welcome. That's cool to put the family together. So welcome, dude. Welcome.

16:54MarkCome on. I appreciate you having me.

16:56BubblemanVery cool. Very cool. So also now I would love to introduce Jolly Roger from Puffco, man. I'm holy shit, dude. It's been a long journey. I've been watching everything that you guys have been doing. You know, the inspiration. I'll tell you a real quick first time story. The first thing you ever released was, I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, it was that little Puffco pen.

17:17BubblemanThat you could crack off the top and it had the little. So listen, my buddy Buddha gives me this pen like 10 years ago in Amsterdam and this was kind of the end of Amsterdam. It was really like Amsterdam was shifting and changing and conservatives were getting into power and they were trying to close the red light district and they were busting us at the Cannabis Cup every year.

17:36BubblemanIt started to get a little unfun. Thank you for watching.

17:53BubblemanAnd I swear to God, it sits there for six months. I thought it was like a normal pen. I didn't understand what it was. And one day, you know, I don't know, you guys are all chronic. So you probably end up in this situation every once in a while where you end up with your pants down and you don't have your tool. You don't have your, so now you're searching your vehicle.

18:09BubblemanAnd I kind of have hash stuck and hidden all over my vehicle so that if I need to have a puff, I can just peel it off. And I had a little piece stuck on my rear view mirror. Well, I found that little pipe six months. It had not been charged. I load it up. I take these giant, Cloudy puffs of hash. I'm like, holy shit, that was really cool.

18:28BubblemanDude, I don't know what kind of battery you put in that thing, but I swear to God, I didn't charge it for a year. A year. I did not charge that battery for a year. And every time I fucking turned it on, now I wasn't puffing it daily, but every time I turned the thing on, I have never seen a battery like that since. I still have that fucking thing.

18:45BubblemanI think I've charged it maybe twice in my life and it still works. Yeah, dude. So shout out to Jolly Roger and Puffco. Welcome to Hash Church, dude. How you doing?

18:57SpeakerThank you, Marcus. Oh my God, so much to cover and just an intro. So one, thank you so much for telling me the story of that product way back when. It's actually not the battery, it's how simple the tech was in the top part of the chamber that made it last so long. And as far as, I'm so glad I'm getting to sit here and connect with you.

19:15SpeakerI don't want to address it too much, but yeah, we had a little bit of a bumpy opening when we first met. I would not put all that blame on you. I would definitely share in that. And I think we had a lot of people in between us that, I'm so glad we got to connect. Also to the room.

19:44SpeakerThese are my hash goats in the room. Obviously, you included, Marcus, but the Frosties, Alice, Flynn, Juliana has been holding my hand for the past four to five years and jumping into the nuance of hash for a long time for me. And she's been running Eagle Clash Barcelona. So she's seen all the things from across the world. Mark as well, Iso Gourmet. Everybody in this room has in some way contributed to our love for hash in this journey that we're on now.

20:14SpeakerAnd yeah, it's just an honor to be here with people that are, I think, equally as obsessed as me, if not way more obsessed, have just taken a different path to serving the hash community. And so it's truly my honor to be here. I'm a little bit, I don't want to say intimidated, but I feel like every person in here, and it's rare that I'll be in a room like this, but every person in here Knows more about hash than I do.

20:39SpeakerThat's typically not in a lot of rooms that I'm in. So my honor to be here. I can't wait to jump into things. You know, this is truly church for me. So thank you guys for having me.

20:49BubblemanAwesome, dude. Well, no, we're really stoked. I'm glad that it's working out. You know, sometimes life just has to work out that way. It just, you know, I've never been one to sort of force things. I like things to happen organically and naturally. And for whatever reason, dude, like whatever was going on with us, we just had this... This cyclone of, I've never, I'd be surprised if you could ever say you met a person like how you met me.

21:14BubblemanI have never met a person in my life. And like Roger said, without getting into it too much, the bottom line was in a very uncool way, I took a giant puff out of a unit and then... Thank you so much for joining us.

21:47BubblemanSo we had this sort of experience. We're here now. We're able to talk about it and we're able to get past it and move forward. And I'm so excited about that. I got a ton of cool questions for you. I've been using the Puffcoast for, well, 10 years since the first unit that I had. It's got to be since the beginning of your company. I have, you know, the first Puffco.

22:09BubblemanI have the first Proxy. I have like the first Puffco Peak and now this beautiful Storm Edition. So huge shout out to Chelsea and the whole Puffco team for always like just lacing up the hash community in such a wonderful way. But also, you know, lacing us up in two ways because lacing you up with tools and that's amazing. That's great. That's like, oh my God, thank you so much.

22:31BubblemanBut lacing you up by normalizing hash consumption when your job is to produce and sell hash is like the greatest lace up that you could ever ask from a company. And it's why I noticed and saw how many incredible hash makers, and I noticed this very early on, Roger, Who were loyal to you, who had this loyal sort of like, no, no, no, you don't understand like Roger.

22:53BubblemanSo it's not, he's not only doing this, he's doing this as well. So I can see that connection. And I mean, even from my perspective, like the more people that are, you know, getting turned on to these devices, It is not easy to, you know, spend 800 bucks on a little glass pipe and then, oh, maybe another, you know, 750 on a JP Terp Slurper. And, oh, don't forget your banger basket.

23:18BubblemanYou're going to need your banger basket. Make sure you get your glob mops. We're going to need those. And don't forget your dabber. Oh, and we got to have the temp tack or the dab right. We're going to have to measure that. Oh, and let's make sure you have your carb cap. Holy fucking shit. Like the idea, I get that when the obsessed, for me, I'll carry around a Pelican case on the bloody Whistler Mountain.

23:40BubblemanBut the idea of having something that is so simplistic and that you can just drop your dabs. And by the way, shout out to... Concentrated X, I am puffing on his strawberry banana 120 micron full melt bubble. This shit melts into nothing. I wish I was actually had Fletch here. And shout out to the Bizarre Brothers. I'm wearing Melt in Peace. This is the Bizarre Brothers. For those of you that know who the Bizarre Josh Corpy and Space, just true bubble ambassadors from the highest level.

24:16BubblemanThey created the star rating with Jeff Church, which really kind of let us know what, you know, because Sam and I created Full Melt Bubble, Full Melt back in the day when I first met him and he was smoking his hash and we kind of started coining these terms Full Melt and Full Melt Clear Dome because it would bubble up the big clear dome. Then it was Corpy and Space and Jeff who kind of was like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

24:40BubblemanWe need to go a little deeper into this. We need to have an understanding of like, because people would see it sizzle. They'd never seen hash sizzle before. And now that would become full melt. And really, it was a one star. But they're like, oh, no, this is a full melt bubble. So. Space and Corpy kind of, you know, changed that game. And then Fletch took it to another level where he's like, I weigh my banger.

25:00BubblemanThen I put my dab in. Then I weigh that to find out exactly what the dab weighs. Then I take the dab. Then I weigh my banger again. And I do the math on what I was what was left over in Chaz on the banger from the hash. And that is like the highest level. Thank you so much for joining us today.

25:42WadeHey, brother. Nice to meet you. I'm here right now. Hey, Basti. I'm here right now. In where? Sorry, you cut out. Medellin, Colombia right now.

25:52BubblemanOh, Medellin.

25:53WadeYeah, it was two days ago. It was the Dabadoo, Colombia. The final Dabadoo here. So, yeah, we're right now.

26:01BubblemanOkay, well, shout out to Maren Barrows, because I couldn't not say a shout out to Alessandro Alex when Medellin and Columbia is mentioned. That's a homie from way, way back. Should have had him on today, actually, to come to think about it. But welcome. We're happy to have you here. Colin just popped in as well. We got Wade Laughter. We got a bunch of the originals. I'm going to get into some questions for Jolly Roger.

26:25BubblemanAnd so really the first one is the journey and the vision. I'm interested to find out, A, what inspired you to start Puffco? Because that's kind of crazy. And how has your vision evolved as dab culture has become like so much more mainstream? That's my first question for Roger.

26:45SpeakerOkay, man, that's a heavy one. Let me see how short I can make this. I mean, the first part of the journey... Okay, great. I didn't know it was going to be four hours. All right, I'm buckling up. I'm trying to stay a little bit sober for the first part because once I get high, the questions are not going to be answered as nicely. So, you know, the first part of the journey is one, something I think a lot of people know about me is I'm a former opiate addict.

27:08SpeakerWhen I went into this program in New York, in Columbia University, it was actually a program using cannabis to get people off of opiates. They just told me, use this yourself. We're not going to give you any cannabis, but we want to see how it interacts with you using it personally to get off of opiates. So that's the first time. That's around the time the dabbing came into my life.

27:31SpeakerYou know, conventional torch dabbing on a highly educated nail. Shout out to Task Rock. And that, I have to say, kind of saved me through getting off of opiates. So like that was the first part of unlocking my love for this specific part of the plant. And then after I got off of opiates, dabbing was just the entire part of my life. It was my relief during kicking this habit.

27:57SpeakerAnd then it just became the way that I used. So moving on, I'm in New York City and New York City has, you know, it's the home of the crack era and it has a lot of stigma as it relates to drug use and specifically pipes. So when I was running around the city trying to get my friends to dab with me, It was impossible. It was just something that they really weren't into.

28:23SpeakerThey see the torch, even though I love the torch, you know, like I'm blasting away every single day. I'm using emails and I have tattoos that cover up the scars from reaching over the table and scorching my arm. And they're just not into that. They see that and it's way too much for somebody who's effectively only been used to smoking a joint in their life, maybe a bong or a pipe.

28:45SpeakerAnd I got to this point where I just really wanted to put my friends on. So very, I guess, to wrap the story, at the time, there were these wax pens, as they call them, coming out. And that really unlocked something for me. It took me from having to use a torch. And again, this is all like BHO. They were calling it wax in New York back in the day.

29:07SpeakerAnd it took me from having to use that to now being able to use anywhere in the city. Also, I've been arrested for cannabis multiple times and faced felonies before. So to go from being afraid to smoke a joint in the city to now have a wax pen and nobody even knows what this is. This is before Juul. This is before box mod vapes or any of that.

29:24SpeakerSo that really opened me up. Those early devices weren't really great and were breaking a ton. And as I was just sharing my frustrations with a friend one day, he was like, why don't you try to do this yourself? I'm not a designer. I'm not an engineer. I had no idea what it would take to do it. And the line that I walked away with from that is sometimes you need a lot of ignorance to try really hard things because if you knew how hard it was, you wouldn't do it.

29:49SpeakerAnd that's exactly what I had at the time, a lot of ignorance and a lot of ambition. And that is how Puffco kind of got started with that first pen being the one you described. In 2014, it just occurred to me that it's been just over 10 years since our first product was released. We're a 12 year old company at this point, but that That really trips me out.

30:10SpeakerNow, as far as the vision goes of where we are today, you know, when I first started dabbing, the only people dabbing were super users. There were people like you, Marcus. There were people that have been in the game for a really long time. They had access to these types of things. In New York, we're very far away from that. New York is the custody market, right?

30:28SpeakerLike that's not where the good packs go. Certainly not in 2014 or 2013. And so really our dream, our vision was that we can be in a reality where non-super users can appreciate hash, where you didn't have to know the entire journey of getting there. You didn't have to know exactly how to use the torch, how much time to wait to put it down, how to avoid burning yourself, how to avoid getting a hit that would scorch your lungs and make you throw up and never want to go back to it.

30:56SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

31:15SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

31:43SpeakerJust on the consumption side. And so the vision hasn't really changed. We're just getting closer every day to trying to normalize this specific niche of the plant and pull people in that previously turned their nose about it. So shortest answer I can give you for that question.

32:01BubblemanYou know, when you say the, you know, that sort of

32:07Bubblemanconnection between like what blows me away about the it's one thing to produce a unit that heads are gonna like that's that's one thing it's another thing completely to create one unit that also brand new users can be excited to try But also that if someone's there that's just like doesn't have their rig, doesn't have their torch, wants to get high, is kind of like, fuck, like, you know, a joint's not going to do it.

32:33BubblemanThey need like a dab. They're going to be able to look at this device and say, all right, let's have a dab. I can actually get... I can actually get the the rip that I'm looking for and the other thing that I was going to kind of point out and this will turn into a question is that I deal with this with manufacturing on my own side from a whole variety of ways.

32:53BubblemanI've always looked at manufacturing from a very specific like let's make it as Thank you so much for joining us.

33:17BubblemanTo create something that looks, you know, it's stylish. It's like you could put it in a museum on a pedestal and people are like, yeah, look at it. It's not just like basic. And I'm amazed that with that much energy put into the style and the aesthetics of it, that it still works as well as it works. Because every time I've ever been involved in manufacturing, when someone tries to make it look a certain way, it fucks up.

33:44BubblemanMy end of things in how effective and how good it actually works. How did you guys deal with that?

33:50SpeakerI mean, really, I think if there's one thing that's happened to me in life that I consider to just be extremely lucky, I think some people will say I'm good at it. I disagree. I don't know how this happens. It just does. It's the people that come into my life and change it. Now, a lot of them are in this room on the hash side where I can't believe that I have these relationships.

34:10SpeakerI didn't work very hard for them. They popped into my life, grew me and helped grow the space. The same happened with engineers. You know, our I never like to talk shit about previous employees, but maybe this is 12 years ago, so I could say a little bit.

34:26SpeakerAny engineer you hire isn't going to be great. I got very, very lucky that now our chief technology officer, Avi Bajpai, He started off as our lead engineer. That was already after working with a couple of engineers that just couldn't execute the vision. Just like you described, what was in my head isn't what ended up making it into the real world. What I was describing always felt like when it got translated into a file or an idea, it just didn't hit the same it did in my mind.

34:54SpeakerThat stopped happening once I hired Avi. All of you was able to take what was in my brain and put it on wax better than I could have ever imagined, you know, and he's a great collaborative partner and collaboration is probably something I would really focus on because when we go to the first peak, that journey of working with him wasn't just telling him my ideas and him being like, okay, you want it exactly like this.

35:19SpeakerIt was me telling him my ideas and him coming back like, all right, here are three different ways this could look, which one resonates with you? And then pushing back on function and what it can be. And it ends up being a really beautiful process when it's collaborative, when it's just directional and this is what I want, go make it. Thank you for joining us.

35:56SpeakerThank you for watching.

36:19SpeakerMe as an individual and my ideas and really the collective that you foster and where you place yourself in that collective. If you place yourself in that collective is I'm here to decide what's good, you may end up somewhere okay, you may end up tanking the company. If you put yourself in a collective with people you trust, that learn, that grow, That know much more than you in certain areas, you're going to make things that you couldn't imagine.

36:44SpeakerAnd I would assume the same is true for hash as well, right? If there's one chef in the room and they're the only ones dictating what happens in a room full of experts, you might not end up with something as great if you take the perspective of the room itself. So for me, that's kind of how we got here was through really amazing people, a lot of collaboration.

37:03SpeakerAnd now just so everybody here knows, like I am, I consider myself less special every single day. Puffco is a 150 person company. Just our product side, the people that design our products and have them made of 60 people. On the product side itself, the designers, Almost all of them understand hash very well. The person who's designing our firmware understands exactly what it's like when you hit some five star a little bit too hot and you get that burnt corn taste.

37:34SpeakerHe knows what it is. He's designing our firmware to avoid those experiences. That's the edge that we've had as we've just spent a very long amount of time collaborating, learning, getting on the same page, seeing the same landscape. So they're strong suits of building firm where I can't do that, but they can. I could sit there from the background and guide of where I hope things would go.

37:55SpeakerSo yeah, team collaboration and ultimately a little bit of luck in finding the right people for you and the team you're trying to build and foster.

38:03BubblemanI don't think it's luck. Sorry, Colin, just let me get my one thought out here and then I'd love to hear you and welcome, brother. I don't think it's luck. I think the same way the people in this room can look at hash and tell you that it's a super high quality, you may have a subconscious ability to find full melt people. Right. Like you can call them amazing, but they're six star people and not everyone is six star in what they do.

38:29BubblemanRight. There's a level of awareness that is required for people to look at a certain hash, even from a distance, not even touch it, just kind of see it from a distance and kind of be like, oh, yeah, that's what it's supposed to look like. Well, we know that because of how much we focused and Thank you. Thank you.

39:11Collin PalmerYeah, hey, Roger, like I'm sitting in New York, in Brooklyn right now, and this is for me, 25 years ago, and, you know, in Brooklyn, in Bed-Stuy, you know, I, this journey started, right? And I had a service, you know, and I saw you and your products here among the, you know, our work, and we looked at it as a tool to touch more people. And, you know, the ways that you guys and your team has been able to contribute to the overall success I think the uplifting of the information that we have about hash, it's...

39:44Collin PalmerI mean, I went to school at Pratt Institute, man. Like I studied design. I was an animator. I was a sound designer. I was a hash maker the whole time, right? This was my connection to the world was through my hands, through creativity, right? And I didn't have a tool. I had these, like Marcus said, we had these rigs, but in New York, man, like I wanted to change everybody's perspective on hash because I knew how special this stuff was.

40:09Collin PalmerI knew how much it was Thank you so much for joining us.

40:40Collin PalmerThank you, Colin. Yeah, that.

41:06SpeakerThank you. Yeah, it means a ton. Your story resonates with me a lot. For some reasons, I can't even say publicly because I've never gone into my full history with the plant. But parts of our stories are very similar in New York. And it's hard to put people on. You know, if you had to serve in New York, Then 2010, 2011, I'm guessing, BHO starts hitting the scene for you and you're trying to put people on and you have the HKM swing arm.

41:32SpeakerAnd I remember when I first tried to take a dab off of that and like, shout out, shout out to all of the Quartz legends. Those were the people that innovated consumption for hash, not just Quartz. I mean, Task Rock without Quartz, you know, now Quartz. It was really hard to put people on. Especially in that city. And what I like to say is that Puffco is a company that's really been defined by being a New York company.

41:56SpeakerYeah, we're in LA now and we're in the scene now, but we were approaching this from a perspective that is deeply focused on the consumer. And being real, our space is really interesting because in our space, the only people that are typically considered to be real connoisseurs are the makers. But if you go into other worlds, that's not necessarily the case. If you go into the wine world, yes, the people who are manufacturing the wine absolutely are connoisseurs.

42:20SpeakerBut the people you go to, the people handing out Michelin stars are not Michelin star chefs. They're people who appreciate the experience, who live in the space of consumption alone and help guide people that are other consumers to an experience that may not be so obvious for them. In New York, we're alone in that because we don't have makers there. New York is all love to them.

42:43SpeakerI know you feel this. We're a custody market. We get what we can and we're happy for it, especially for how much it's been criminalized. And so for us, we really needed a bridge in that city to find a way to identify what's good without the makers guiding us because the makers looked at us as like, yeah, you're getting the B grade packs at best. Why the fuck would I listen to you?

43:06Collin PalmerOur room was two blocks away from Pat, from, from Pat, from, from Pratt. Pratt, yeah. And then we had our trimmers from the, from, that were art, art students. And then we would wash it all right there in our cold room. It was all done there.

43:20SpeakerIt's crazy you were doing that in that area back then, man. I'm very, very familiar. It was Pratt. It's on Fort Greene. It's in, uh, I'm not...

43:28Collin PalmerThat's that. That's that Clinton Hill. So like right on that border of Myrtle Avenue, Taffy Place, you know, you know the deal. You know the spot.

43:36SpeakerYeah. For you guys to know, I mean, now it's very hipster. You've seen a very dangerous area in New York back in the day. Like, it's cool. I mean, it's where Biggie is from. Now it's now it's hipster as hell. But

43:49Collin PalmerDude, I sent him his bags. He did, man. That's when Marcus and I met, man. And he would send me bags to Pennsylvania. I would drive down there, pick them up, drive them back. Because I didn't want anyone to know about New York. And then I would be like, all my clones would get sent to Vermont and everything was up there and then brought in. It was very, dude, I had to use hockey bags and the Chinatown buses to move things around.

44:15BubblemanA threat of 10 years in a federal penitentiary will do that, Colin.

44:20Collin PalmerYeah.

44:21BubblemanOh, my God.

44:23Collin PalmerYeah, well, you know, I look back as like either I was really stupid or really passionate and a little of both.

44:30SpeakerYeah, totally.

44:31BubblemanNo, what you were and what Roger and what I and what we all were, it's called young.

44:39Collin PalmerYeah. And I remember Roger, like, you know, Valerie Ballroom, or you couldn't smoke anything in that room watching your favorite artists. 500 person room, wow, gone. Take, totally take it out. It's funny you mentioned that.

44:56SpeakerI think it was Bowery Ballroom that might have actually like changed everything for us. So like the big moment where we went from this probably won't work out to holy shit, what the hell is happening here? Is that product you described, Marcus, from 10 years ago, the Pro, it was released in October of 2014. We had tried to make a product before that, didn't love it, shelved it, went back to the drawing board and released that one.

45:19SpeakerAnd I believe I met Jen Bernstein at some type of show at Bowery Ballroom. I'm pretty sure it was Bowery Ballroom, like nearly, nearly certain. And we were just hanging out and I was with my lady and she was making sure that like we kept loading up. It was called the Puff GoPro at the time and passing it around. And Jen got to try it and the other High Times crew.

45:40SpeakerAnd a few months later, they had their Vaporizer of the Year, which if you were around back then, that was everything. Like that was the biggest, anything you can get in our space. Now, I mean, now High Times doesn't exist, so it truly doesn't matter. And when we won that, when we won vaporizer of the year for 2015, this two-person New York company, again, from New York, the custody market, it changed everything for us.

46:08SpeakerLike we were, I still remember when Jen Bernstein gave me the call and she was like, Roger? I have some news for you. Your life is never going to be the same. You just won vaporizer of the year, 2015 high times. And just remember running up and down the hallway screaming, but Bowery Ballroom, man, that's where I met her. And I'm pretty sure other people from the high times crew and my life has never been the same.

46:32BubblemanYeah, I don't think people really realize. Yeah, exactly. Shout out to Jen and shout out to High Times. I don't think people realize how, like, what an important role High Times played in the success of a lot of different companies. If you kind of got into High Times, if you won the Cannabis Cup, you were selling, like, a shitload of seeds, like, in the upcoming year. Like, there was just no doubt about it.

46:56BubblemanLike, in a big way. It built seed companies. It definitely helped build... Fresh Headies and Bubble Bags. And yeah, you know, because people might be like, oh, come on, like you won an award for best vaporizer. How much could that possibly affect you? It's like, oh, just to the tune of millions of dollars and like massive sales and like anxiety and stress, like where you're just kind of like, oh, I'm just trying to build a business.

47:20BubblemanAnd now it's like orders just coming in like a machine gun.

47:28SpeakerExactly. That's exactly how it went. I mean, it really was like, we hope this works out. Sorry, I just loaded myself up here. Nice. The Gandalf. Shout out to Heritage Hashco. I'm smoking my, their sour diesel is so amazing. It's like one of the few that still really like charges me up. So I'm just not going to waste this hit because I don't have a lot of it.

47:48Collin PalmerKyle's got good taste, man. He really knows how to select his cuts, man. He's a good guy. Big love to him. Much love to Kyle.

47:54SpeakerI mean, this, yeah, Kyle. Kyle was the man I literally... I was hoping he was going to be here today. Just so I could ask for more.

48:03Collin PalmerWe'll get Kyle on. He was someone I've been thinking about as of late. The whole Emerald Triangle. Honestly, we should do a whole episode just on that, Marcus. But really amazing guy. Yeah.

48:16BubblemanI'd love to hear from some of the hash makers that are in the house. You guys are sitting by on standby smoking some of the best hash in the world. Let's hear from some of the hash makers and what kind of, I mean, I kind of get the idea, although I love to hear people's stories in regards to what brought them to sort of the threshold of I'm going to go past just liking this.

48:38BubblemanTo being slightly obsessed or maybe completely obsessed about it in a way that is a different world completely. Because I suspect each and every one of you, I've met hundreds of incredible, amazing hash makers. And I have to say, you know, since starting in like 99, And I never claimed to be the first by any means. I lucked out on my timing in regards to getting to see the creation and the start of hash and dabbing culture.

49:07BubblemanI just happened to be there. I mean, guys like Sam had been doing it for 20, 15 plus years before I even met him. Thank you for joining us.

49:31BubblemanI felt I could take the risk. If I was in the US, I might not have been doing that. And the customers that I had, I realized very early on in the late 90s that my customers were in fear of their life and safety. Thank you so much for joining us.

50:06BubblemanWhich was kind of crazy when you think about it, but it was Canada. So I was kind of living in this bubble of like, oh man, like I got caught with 16 kilos and a bunch of cash and got a slap on my wrist. And, you know, they gave my money back. They were like, oh, sorry, here's your money. Like that's Canada. My friends get caught with like a pound in Alabama and he's like doing prison time nine and a half years later when they say they give you 10 years down there for that.

50:29BubblemanIt's not anything less than 10 years ever, ever, ever, ever. So that kind of blew my mind, the responsibility of selling bags to people that I had the responsibility of making sure I wasn't getting hacked, that my information wasn't being made available to any, you know, like it was, I felt like I needed to protect my hash makers. Because, you know, not only were they clients, customers, but they were also like people.

50:56BubblemanAnd, you know, in early on days, the stories of guys from like Texas going, oh, hey, bubble man, like, holy shit, I got busted. My door got kicked down. They took my bro. They took my dog to the pound. I spent the weekend in jail. Holy shit. It was the worst experience of my life. I came home. I look in the corner and the batch of bubble I was making, the bags and the bucket is sitting there and I'm like, I walk over, it's full.

51:21BubblemanI pull the bags. I dry the hash. I'm smoking hash. I got my dog out of the pound. All of a sudden the story is turning around. It was an incredible thing to be a part of. So I'd love to hear some of the stories from the hash makers, maybe the Frosties. How's that? Can I call you guys the Frosties?

51:40SpeakerYeah. Hey, yeah. So am I? Yeah. What's up? We're frosty. Yeah. I got in a hash in 2010, early 2010. And I went over to build a fence for someone. This guy's like, dude, we're going to do it for dabs. You're going to build this fence with me. There was like an acre big fence. It was a huge fence and it was like for his dogs or whatever.

52:07SpeakerSo he's like showing me where he's blasting this VHO. And I'm like, dude, this shit's crazy. Like this is weed. Like he's like, yeah, we just take all the trim. No one wants it anyway. People are giving it away to us. And I'm like, and he's like, we're going to go set you up with your dad. That's like your payment is like the one dad for like this, like eight, nine hour workday.

52:27SpeakerSo I was like, all right, like. Let's go and have this dab. Like, I like money though. Like, can I get, you know, like whatever. So he gets in, he like hits like the two foot like bong or whatever with the like bell on it. And he's like, all right. So when it gets red hot, you just drop it on there. So we just drop it on there.

52:46SpeakerI take my first rip and I'm like,

52:50SpeakerI'm like, holy shit. Like, I'm actually high. Like, I'm high again. This is crazy. Like, you know, like, this is insane. So I chased that and I didn't have a bong at the time or any of like this special like gadgetry and like, this guy like was unobtainable. Like you could not talk to him. It's so weird. So I was like, This is weird. I scored bubble hash.

53:13SpeakerWe were hot knifing. Like I stopped smoking weed almost completely. I was like, all right, this is like the way to smoke. Like we're like, you know, over the stove, like let's get another one in like hot knife, hot knife. And then. I like that very same year learned how to grow weed, started growing my own cannabis because I was like, I want some of the like, you can only grow like the stuff that's like really, really fire.

53:39SpeakerLike I want like the best stuff all the time. I just like, I don't know where to get it, you know? met this guy named john and he was like yo dude like i need help trimming like come on in we'll we'll do this thing so we trimmed and then i was like so like i heard you could make dabs from like the trim and he's like oh yeah like we got a few like things we've tried it once or twice like it came out like weird i was like can we do can like we do this and he's like yeah so like within like three months i'm like Going and buying all the hash that I can and like researching and like we finally like three or four months later after the harvest get to like you know making the like you know BHO in this garage and we got like the fan set up he's like dude we gotta have fans and extension cords because we can't have stuff plugged in and like we're gonna crack the garage door but like we can't tell anybody we're doing this and like we're out of this kid's mom's house and we're So, like, what's going on here?

54:43SpeakerAll right, nothing. We put this thing in, it came out fire. So, we, like, smoked through that batch and maybe made, like, an ounce or so, you know? Like, we smoked through that batch so quick. So, like, I'm, like, around Colorado trying to find dabs. Like, I'm, like, yo, like, buying out stores, like, The Clinic, you know, Kind House, like, all these... Native Roots, Cam, all these places that just like had hash on deck.

55:10SpeakerWe were just like, when's it dropping? Like we need it, you know, like so we. It's kind of disgusting almost how much like V8O and shatter that we were smoking back then, you know, and because we were making for me, at least I learned how to make bubble or V8O first before learning how to make water hash. And so once I learned, I'm like, oh, this is way less sketchy.

55:38BubblemanLike by a thousand times. You don't even know. I only know because for whatever reason, when Indra released the BHO method on Euroid in 99, it was like a month away from when I had just released bubble bags. Isolator bags had existed since 98, about seven months prior to the bubble bags coming onto the market. But, oh my God. So every time someone blew up or burned themselves very badly or like had these horrible accidents, they would like end up like coming over to my side when really I was like, it's not my side.

56:11BubblemanWe're all just a community. Let's just be safe for Christ sakes. And I'm very happy. I'm not a BHO guy, but I think all forms of cannabis extract should be available. And when there's people... Thank you so much for joining us.

56:49SpeakerOh, man, we like it was like 2013. My homie comes over. He's got your bubble bags. He's like, dude, like bubble hash is like the new shit. Like, I really want to smoke this. And we're like, all right, like, let's make it, you know, so we get the five gallon buckets going. And what we're pulling out, I'm just like. Why would someone want to smoke this? What's going on here?

57:13SpeakerIt was trim run, not preserved very well. We didn't know what we were doing. The source material probably could have been a little bit better, but then time progresses because afterwards I was like, How does everybody love this stuff? But like, it doesn't seem that fire. Like there's gotta be like a better like product here, you know, like, so we kept on chasing.

57:38BubblemanThat's the brick wall that a lot of people hit that they never get past. They'll, they, they write me and they're like, Hey dude, how do I get like the hash to like melt like yours? And then I'm like, Ooh. Well, that's a long journey. That's you have to grow amazing weed basically, right? Like that. And that's, that could be like a 20 year journey for someone to learn about like living soil and organics and micro rises fears and like symbiotic relationships and how to get the plant to express itself so that when you go and run it through your bags or whatever, that it produces something that's exceptional.

58:15SpeakerSo we were, I was reading this like French like chemistry book, like being a nerd. And they were like, one of the main points was like how fast you can freeze something that like lock in flavor. Like all these like high-end food companies use flash freezing to like kind of lock in flavor. So Jess and I like kind of was like, we had a three light grow at this time, which is like not very much, you know?

58:42SpeakerAnd we're like, ah, like we'll see. I guess we'll save like a four by four of the OG Kush to like freeze because like I feel like this is what everyone's like starting to do. So like we froze this product for the first time and like obviously didn't know what we were doing and like a four by four made like seven grams of oil. And we're like, what the fuck?

59:04SpeakerLike seven grams. Like we're used to getting at least like a pound and a half. Like what the fuck is going on? Seven fucking grams. Like this is crazy. And so like, we were like, there's, this doesn't make sense, but like the product is so fucking good. Like we're not selling this. We're just keeping it. We're smoking and all, you know?

59:26Collin PalmerThat's what I was going to ask. I was like, but the quality, man, you know, like, forget the rest. Like you got what you got. You were after right in that moment.

59:33SpeakerYou know, it's like an infection. Like you're like, oh, if it can be this good, what what else can it be? Like, can we go farther? Can we go harder? Like, how much more better can it get? You know, and you just have to be able to grow it. Like, that's really like I had this epiphany one day I was at a concert and I was like, Weed, like, the reason weed's so dangerous is because it, like, transcends money.

59:56SpeakerLike, you could not put a money, amount of money on, like, the best six star ever. Like, because 90% of the time people aren't going to give that or sell that away. You have to literally put effort through and grow it and put effort through and, like, harvest it the specific way and wash it a specific way and take so much care in this process to, like, get to that final end product where you're, like, Do I really want to trade this for money?

1:00:24SpeakerLike, I don't think so. Like, I think I'm just going to smoke all this thing. Like, you know, like, that's how we got with that four by four section. Ultimately, we're just doing it for ourselves. Yeah, the head. Yeah, for us to smoke on the good shit, because... Once we realized we can make it ourselves, we were making it better than the stores, I feel like at the time.

1:00:45SpeakerWe were trying to at least. There were some pretty talented individuals, but they got sold out quick. Drops would come, drops would go, you know? We waited in line.

1:00:55BubblemanQuality for a lot of people, quality and purity, like what Puffco has done once again. Yeah, yeah. Making like a dozen of these, great, no problem. That's amazing. Making like 25,000 of them or 100,000 of them or a million of them, that is a completely different game. And so... And understand that you can create quality and purity on a grand scale, the same way Puffco manages to serve up tens of thousands of these products, pumping them out and getting them all over the world.

1:01:30BubblemanAnd I think a lot of craft hash makers that they've never made kilos. They've never made like, oh, we made 25 kilos or whatever. We made 50 kilos, 100 kilos. You can do that. Like, get it into your mind that that is completely and totally possible. And Skunk Man Sam can speak to the scaling of the large scale grow. Sam, can you grow six star resin in like a four hectare field?

1:01:56SpeakerAbsolutely, yes. You just can't make compromises for quality over quality.

1:02:04BubblemanExactly. So it's doable. And the same way it's doable on his end of things with that massive scale grow, it's also doable and scalable in the equipment. If you design the equipment properly and you still do the process properly and you understand the parameters of, you know, how to sublimate the moisture out of your hash and how to flash freeze all your material, that awareness of like, Locking in flavor.

1:02:30BubblemanI'm surprised, Dr. Mark, you didn't chime in when he talked about the chemistry book of extreme cold temperatures locking in flavor. Tell me you weren't thinking about it.

1:02:40Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I mean, yeah, I mean... I was thinking about that, but actually, so I had to look it up in my old email. So Roger and I have a past together. Hey, Roger, good to see you.

1:02:52SpeakerSo it's been fucking me up because I'm like, I know I've spent time with this dude, but it must have been a decade ago. So I don't remember exactly.

1:02:59Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah. So thank you for the refresh. I look back in my email, I'm like, God, so when did Roger and I interact? So this is back in 2016. So I think Hash Church was going at the time. And you were super interested. Well, everybody was super interested in, you know, what are the best You know, materials for vaporizers, in particular, the bucket, right? And so we remember we set up that study at Colorado State with my friend Chris Rithner.

1:03:33SpeakerRemember you went... Oh my God, dude, that was you who helped set it up. Yes. Oh, my God. I'll shut up. But you tell the story. Yeah.

1:03:43Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the bottom line is we did a comparison between some of the other vaporizers because, you know, let's face it. I mean, these things are mass manufactured in maybe, you know, I'm not going to call out any particular country in the world, but I think we could all figure it out. Right. And so whenever you get, I mean, this is still, well, Roger, this is a great discussion even today, right?

1:04:07Dr Mark ScialdoneWhich is that when you're doing quality control on these supply chains that come from Far East, you know, how do you understand like any shiny metal? Thank you so much for joining us.

1:04:48Dr Mark ScialdoneWe've got a lot of questions about quality control that, you know, someone's not going to be able to pull down a vaporizer off of the shelf in a dispensary today, send it for some kind of analysis and it come back positive for lead or chromium or arsenic. You know, those are those problems exist. We are ubiquitous throughout society. It's nothing to do with vaporizer devices. It's everything to do with just where things are manufactured today and how those supply chains are created.

1:05:22Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so when I look back at our charts that we had generated, it's like we were just beginning to use NMR and other techniques like GC mass spec to identify Things that were left in the residue of the buckets, right? Because that's where you're interested. You came and engaged me, which is that, hey, you're a chemist. What's left behind? Like what is that reclaim or that whatever?

1:05:49Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd what we found, you know, no surprise is that there's a fair amount of CBN in there. And, you know, there's other particular things that, you know, like when you heat up distillate, yeah, there's a propensity to start seeing oxidation occurring and these things will start turning dark. That's why the oil that you pull up with your Q-tip always is darker than the ash you put in there, right?

1:06:14Dr Mark ScialdoneSo there's some kind of oxidation that happens. But yeah, I mean, I'd like to think, Roger, that, you know, I mean, we were only engaged for a little while and I remember...

1:06:22SpeakerI have so much to say. I'm like, I didn't want to interrupt you, but like, I can barely hold myself back anymore. So I'll jump into that study, which I vividly remember, man. I, God, I hope our CTO, he's probably not. I hope our CTO Avi is watching because he's going to lose his fucking mind. He was there with us. At Colorado University. I'll tell that story in a second.

1:06:41SpeakerThe first thing I want to say is your question of like these products and the materials that we use. So first thing to put out there, Puffco devices are the most tested hash consumption devices in history, period. Nothing has been through more testing than what we do. How do we make sure that the materials we're using are okay is we do a lot of biocompatibility testing. For every single material that we are using that is anywhere close to the air path, I mean, we do it across the board, but anything that is touching your mouth, anything that vapor is passing through, we want to make sure it's safe.

1:07:12SpeakerTo the point where a lot of the testing we've done, and I don't know if my Puffco admin is in here, but if you are, I forgot the exact Puffco page. We put this all up there, but we do ISO testing, which is what you would have to do for FDA approval. There's no FDA approval for vaporizers like ours. We have no regulatory push to make sure we do this.

1:07:33SpeakerWe do this because we internally want to make sure that what we're consuming is safe for us. We all use our own products religiously. Forget about putting something out there in the world that would harm other people. It starts with us. We'll be the first to negatively experience something if that's possible. So we go through a ton of testing. We put it up on our website. We typically don't Thank you for joining us today.

1:08:12SpeakerIt makes me happy because it just shows how long we've been on this pursuit of science and technology in the space. And I remember where we were coming from when we were doing that study. That was the first time I even heard of a mass spec. Like, I didn't even know what that was. This is all... Completely new to me. I came from a different world. But at the time, I was working on compelling reasons to convince people why they should choose hash over flour.

1:08:40SpeakerAnd in my mind, I really, it's actually wonderful for me to go back to what I was thinking in 2016 because I'm so far from it. At the time, what I would describe to people is it's not that hash can get you really high. It's that hashes or dabs really are missing something that you're getting in the flower experience that changes it. Now, before hash came into my life or dabs came into my life, I'm a flower smoker.

1:09:06SpeakerIf I smoke a joint, my day is derailed, right? Like it doesn't even matter if it's not a strong joint. I'm just dumber for the rest of the day. My recovery is really, really hard to get through. But then once I started mostly consuming dabs, I noticed, man, this goes away really clean and I feel fine. Like I could just take a dab and an hour later I can have a really hard conversation or I could be back to whatever somewhat sober is for me.

1:09:33SpeakerIt doesn't feel like the same type of disruption. Why? And so for new users, I wouldn't say this is going to get you as high as you were getting, you know, senior year of college, 21 plus. This is going to get you that high. That was not my pitch at all because that scared New Yorkers. It was this is going to change your relationship with cannabis from something like alcohol, which is really going to sedate you and help pull you out of this world and just end your day.

1:10:00SpeakerAnd maybe something a little more like coffee where now you're leaned in. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:10:25SpeakerYou're not consuming it anymore. And that's the reason you can keep returning to it over and over and over again. And so the study that we did, I believe that we were like in our car outside of Colorado University, like we had our dabs that were untouched and that we just kept smoking as much as we can and pouring out the reclaim from that original vape to try to see if one had more CBN than the other.

1:10:49SpeakerNow, the crazy part of that story And really shows where things were at then and kind of where we are now is that the team at that university, I don't even want to mention the name, pulled out of the study. They said that they were afraid that they were to lose their funding because, you know, universities obtain federal funding if they completed the study. So at first they were very interested or very cool.

1:11:12SpeakerWe're in Colorado, recreational cannabis exists. But it was federally illegal.

1:11:17Dr Mark ScialdoneTwo years before hemp, right? So this is 2016. So the 2018 farm bill is when hemp changed. And that's when this is Colorado State University. You know, they they yeah, they and most universities still Rogers, they have to have like a schedule one license. But within states now, they've actually provided for and there is an act in Congress around expanding the ability to do hemp and marijuana research but you guys were ahead of your time because i think like two or three years later this would have been a study that they could have done and published and talked about and because now they're in place to basically improve on customer safety and public safety it's a public safety thing you know So if you look at it, even just as a handful of years ago, what the NIH was spending on cannabis research was mostly funded through NIDA, which was having to prove some negative aspect of cannabis.

1:12:19Dr Mark ScialdoneBut now when you look at the portfolio of... Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.

1:12:39Dr Mark ScialdoneThe wholesale move into this is legitimate medicine and we should be looking at it from that point of view. So I'm not apologizing for the university, but they had to take. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. They couldn't jeopardize millions of dollars of funding and they would probably love to do that study again now.

1:13:00SpeakerI mean, totally forgot about it. We've since then, we've worked, I mean, we've never stopped doing studies and pursuing information. We have an R&D team internally at Puffco. Their job isn't to design product, it's to test ideas and validate what is true and not true about cannabis. We have like scientific researchers heading that who have a history in doing that. But it's just crazy to me. I didn't forget that we did that study, but I forgot a lot of those details until you just brought it up, Mark.

1:13:30SpeakerThank you. I mean, that is how long Puffco has been pursuing this information. And you don't need to know that to make a vaporizer. You don't need to know whether dabs have more CBN leftover than a joint would at the end of the day. That's not Thank you so much for joining us.

1:14:10Dr Mark ScialdoneWere you guys just a two-person company at the time, right?

1:14:14SpeakerNo. By that time, we were a bit bigger. So I would say maybe like seven, eight people by the time I had met you. There was Avi. Avi had hired an assistant engineer. Roger Sayer, he was there. We had John in customer service. We had Chelsea. I think out of those seven or eight people, Thomas Whittington, seven or eight people that were in that room with us back then, I think all but one are still with us today.

1:14:37SpeakerAll right. Yeah, eight years later.

1:14:40Dr Mark ScialdoneWhen you have a company in your rearview mirror and people stay with you because they see a future for themselves, that's the difference between a successful company and one that basically is not. But hey, I just want to let you know, I texted Jen and told her that you shouted her out.

1:15:00SpeakerI'll never stop giving her credit, you know, like that. And specifically the way she delivered the news, Roger, your life is never going to be the same again. You just won Vaporizer of the Year for High Times. I mean, she was right. It's never been the same. I don't know what my life would have been today.

1:15:15Dr Mark ScialdoneI'd love to get your perspective just on the whole New York situation because, you know, it's so... It's so present, you know, like when you go and walk a block in Manhattan, you don't smell chestnuts and urine anymore. You smell weed, right? And it's just like there's so many weed stores in the same place you get your, you know, ham and egg and cheese sandwich and pick up a copy of the New York Times.

1:15:43Dr Mark ScialdoneYou can get a bag of weed at that same time. Same story. So it's so it's just everywhere. I mean, it's just a free market economy. And I've talked to Colin about the New York market. What is your opinion? Like what? How is that going to become normalized? Because right now, when you go there, most of that product just comes from Cali. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:16:05SpeakerWe'll be right back.

1:16:32SpeakerYou know, a decade before, less than a decade before New York changed their laws and now is the best consumption market, in my opinion, in the world. Why? Because you can consume anywhere you can consume cigarettes. So for me, one, that is where New York Thank you so much for joining us.

1:17:16SpeakerI think everybody knows what this means now. The home of the spray pack. It's where this underdeveloped palette, this market where it was so criminalized that all of us, I mean, my God, for less than half a pound of weed, I was probably facing one to three years in jail. That's fucking crazy. Imagine what you were getting for growing. Imagine what you were getting for real distribution at the time in New York City.

1:17:41SpeakerWe have not been able to take the risks that people in other markets can like Vermont, like California, like Oregon historically. And so as far as not just manufacturing goes, but the New York palette, what they know to be good, Thank you for joining us.

1:18:26SpeakerWe have not had in New York the exposure to just the abundance that the space provides in that market. And so I think in some ways it's great. The risk of learning is gone. They can pursue that information now. I'm not sure if you're allowed to grow in New York, but I bet you could probably grow. Yeah, it looks like you can grow a few plants.

1:18:47Collin PalmerYou can grow a few plants now. It's not a lot, but, you know, it's enough. And to your point, it's an evolving market. But if you look at the numbers, man, I mean, it's a sponge, right? To your point.

1:18:58SpeakerIt's going to take some time. We do have a lot of incredible cannabis people in New York, but most of the conversations like Colin, like Mark are having, they're with people on the West Coast. It's not typically to a New York audience. I think that's going to change as they get exposed to better products. It's still going to take some time. They are last on the list, the recreational.

1:19:21SpeakerIt only happened a couple of years ago. And then even with that, they don't know what good stuff is. By the time Colorado went wreck, they had amazing options in wreck. I haven't necessarily seen that personally reflected in the New York market. So it'll take some time, but I'm very proud of New York in that people aren't losing their freedom for the plant anymore. And I have hopes that that will lead to a more informed market in the future.

1:19:47SpeakerShort answer.

1:19:48Dr Mark ScialdoneExcellent. Thank you, Roger. It's awesome. Thank you, Mark.

1:19:52SpeakerI'm going to follow you after this and connect offline, man. There's a lot of reminiscing to do here.

1:19:58Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, there's always been cannabis culture in New York, and I think there's been more around, you know, just like you say, you know, consuming, but like the cannabis club culture, I think has always existed there, right? like you go back to wetlands in the day and you smelt it all around people were smoking on the sidewalk smoking inside smoking outside there was just consumption going around you know i go back to the grateful dead days and it seems like when when someone other than the dead were playing at the garden you got hassled for just smoking a one hitter but when the dead were in town you could just smoke big fatties and seem like they just sort of lightened up when When the big acts cut and now fish, you know, I've never seen anyone hassled for consuming at Madison Square Garden, where again, the policy is no smoking, but you're there with 30,000 other people and everyone is, you know, either pulling on vape pens or smoking, smoking weed.

1:20:59Dr Mark ScialdoneBut man, Roger, think about it, man. Like I was a kid. I grew up in Bergen County right across the river, you know. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:21:30Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd come right back over the George Washington Bridge, go to a party in northern New Jersey, and you were the king of the party, right? Because you brought all the drugs. But, you know, Kind Bud, really, for me anyway, in my experience growing up in New Jersey, was all about Grateful Dead tour.

1:21:47SpeakerWhat years was that, Mark, would you say? Like, what year period are you describing? Starting in 77 and ending in 95.

1:21:51Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, I mean, sort of late 70s, early 80s.

1:21:59Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, I would smell weed at the Grateful Dead show that's like, wow, that's the weed I want to, you know, and it was basically NorCal Kind Bud that was being brought out on Grateful Dead tour, supporting people who are selling weed, you know, and yeah, there was a multi drug trade going on in so-called Shakedown Street outside the concert to buy whatever you wanted, mushrooms, acid, weed, just about anything, you know.

1:22:28SpeakerSo my cannabis story starts right after that period, right? In 93 or 95, I'm 12 years old. I was born in 83. And the era that I grew up in in New York, like in Fort Lee, New Jersey, after I got off of opiates with that program that was encouraging cannabis use at Columbia University, I go and cross the bridge to go and celebrate with a friend of mine.

1:22:51SpeakerAnd Fort Lee police stopped me for jaywalking, find a joint in my pocket, find an ounce in my backpack and seven grams of hash. And charged me with one to three year felony. That was enough to hit me with a distribution charge. So like that was the reality. That I was in during that time. And I feel like Colin probably saw this as well, just based on when he was proud.

1:23:10SpeakerBut New York, this was the home of, this was the days of the hop out boy era, where if you're smoking weed on the street, in a matter of seconds, there's an unmarked car swinging around, they're jumping out, they're throwing you up against the wall. And, you know, at the time, especially if you're not white, it's a terrorist state. Like anywhere you are, if somebody's smoking weed around you, you better have nothing on you.

1:23:36SpeakerAnd so it, it didn't feel that free. I never, even, even with the dead shows being around, I never felt safe as a user. In fact, I, I spent most of my life feeling like a criminal just for being a cannabis user, you know, like, and that's the charges that were reflected on my record. Sorry, Colin. I'm not sure if you saw the same things out.

1:23:54Collin PalmerNo, I was going to say to me. Like I was going to tell a story like my brother, I have an old two other brothers that live in New York currently as well. The ones in Queens, ones in Williamsburg. He's been there since 92, the other one since the mid 80s. So, you know, look, I remember coming out of the rehearsal studio playing drums with them. My brother lights up a J and undercover walks right up to him and arrests him right then and there, spends the whole night in jail.

1:24:21Collin PalmerJust, we all, you know, we're just all like, what? We're in the middle of a session, man. Like, we're just going to go back in. This is not a big deal. But to your point, it doesn't matter. And it was just like a small, you know, a small little cube that we had because that's, you know, how we carried all of our stuff. And, you know, it was dangerous.

1:24:39Collin PalmerAnd I still, to this day, have PTSD. I don't feel, for whatever reason, comfortable walking around. I'm still, like, walking down the street over here in Greenpoint, like, you know. Looking around, I don't, it's just, you know, there's no need for that anymore, but I feel you.

1:24:56SpeakerIt took me, it took me moving to California and being here for six years. I used to have before starting Puffco, like regular nightmares of just going to jail and being in jail for a while. And it was from the amount of times that I had been pulled over and stopped. And after a couple of times of facing felonies for minimal amounts of weed, like this is probably what most of you have on your coffee table.

1:25:20SpeakerAt certain points, and I'm looking at losing my life for it. So yeah, we're in a very, very different reality now. And yeah, I hope, I hope that PTSD passes, Colin. It took me a long time to just not have my day ruined for a cop being behind me. Forget being pulled over or anything else, but like that was the vibe in New York. If you see a cop behind you and they're following you, For more than 15 seconds, the rest of your day, your hands will be shaking because you could have ended up in jail.

1:25:50SpeakerAnd in New York, if you get arrested, and that's on a Friday, you're going into central booking. And if you don't have a lawyer and you don't have bail money, you are going to Rikers Island, which is in the news for constant human rights violations. That's what we're up for with murders, with people that are committing great acts of violence. You're in the same cell as them.

1:26:10SpeakerWe're smoking a joint for what now is, you know, not illegal at all. It's a crazy reality. I'm happy for the product.

1:26:18Collin PalmerYeah, I think in my, you know, scale down, I think, you know, I think of you think of the wetlands, I think of limelight, the tunnel, you know, those those clubs, you know, and I think those that spirit of that, to your point for social consumption, that's where this all heads, to your point, Roger.

1:26:37Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, it's always existed in New York, right?

1:26:40Collin PalmerI mean, it's always been part of the culture. And deep in in Bushwick has always been a champion of that. You know, I don't know if anyone's ever been there to Astro Club back way back when, but that was one of the first consumption clubs in the city that you could openly go and they'd have a setup and you could go put your, you know, they'd bongs and, you know, whatever else at the time that that was available.

1:27:03Collin PalmerSo, yeah.

1:27:04BubblemanDid you guys have a mega ill pizza like we did here in Vancouver that you could go to the pizza place and just plug your D-nail in and just be dabbing, Johnny B and I dabbing while they're making our pizza. Hey, make our pizza medicated. We go into the back room. He's medicating the olive oil. He's putting it on the crust.

1:27:23Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, that would be a sin to New Yorkers. You can't medicate pizza. You can't do that in New York City.

1:27:27Collin PalmerI assure you, you can. Grumpy Cafe, I think the Lower East Side was like the closest. That was like the other, I don't know if anybody was there during the Sour Eras, but that was a lot of big meetup spot there. The Sour Eras.

1:27:42BubblemanI want to hear from Mark Hammond. We haven't heard too much from him. What's going on in your hash journey there, dude? What makes you so... Thank you for joining us.

1:28:11BubblemanBut very few people are pressing six-star bubble into rosin because it already melts to 96% efficiency. You lose maybe 4% in the Chaz. So I would ask you, Mark, what your preference is. Like if you have six-star and dry sift or bubble hash, if you prefer that over rosin or vice versa. Certainly not shitting on rosin here. It's also part of normalization of dabs not made with solvents because very few people have access to We've got a couple of questions here.

1:28:40BubblemanWe've got a couple of questions here. We've got a couple of questions here.

1:28:46MarkWe've got a couple of questions here. We've got a couple of questions here.

1:29:01MarkFor me, one thing I think is unique about cannabis is there's an intense consumer fatigue when it comes to different flavors. For example, my favorite strain is Skittles, but if I smoke, you know, seven or eight grams straight of Skittles, I start to have a worse experience. It starts to taste worse to me. It starts to be less potent to me. And so I constantly need to switch up flavors to have a good experience.

1:29:26MarkBut yeah, definitely melt for me. But really what started my obsession in cannabis goes back to middle school. I moved down from Oregon when I was pretty young and I was kind of an outcast. My fifth grade, everybody has their group of friends or whatever. And so I got on YouTube and started watching Chubbs at the Nugget Tree and Dave Warden, who had a YouTube channel, The Weed Report.

1:29:48MarkAnd these guys were pioneers in the Prop 215 era out here in California. They would basically just showcase the daily life at a dispensary. And so this was around 2008, 2009, and they were starting to get oil in for the first time in hash. And so I started looking up more into that, started obsessing over Dave Ward, and he talked about RollItUp.com. And Tok City and a few of these different platforms.

1:30:15MarkAnd so I went on to roll it up and there was a guy named Matt Rice who was running a thread with Kyle Cushman about the theory behind veganic growing. And Matt Rice posted a photo that he was in Sonoma County and I hit him up because I was out at Santa Rosa at the time and I asked him to meet up. And at the time I was 15 years old and he thought I was a lot older because I had been made a little moderator or whatever on Roll It Up.

1:30:44MarkAnd so I ended up coming over to his house. And again, if you don't know who Matt Rice is, I consider him one of the pioneers on the West Coast for the solventless scene. It was really him and Nicka T talking about opening up the surface area of the hash gate into the dry quicker, which made it into a more dabble product, made it isolate, isolate the land that's a lot better.

1:31:05MarkAnd so I ended up meeting Matt and he showed me how to microplane hash and how to run. He had a Tumesium closed loop system, one of the first closed loops before SubZero and these other companies started getting into the field. So basically he showed me how to make small little parchment baths and we would do a little bit of closed loops BHO and then we would microplane hash.

1:31:26MarkAnd at the time, hash wasn't really viable on the market. Not many people were using the 90 bag. Really, the 70 micron was considered the money bag back then. And 70 micron hash used to sit on the shelf at CCA, which was at the time the first dad bar in California. It'd be $40 a gram. It would just sit. Nobody wanted it. Partially because the biggest problem in cannabis is the education.

1:31:52MarkAnd so during that time, I kind of was lucky to be a part of what I consider like such a golden era of cannabis where Matt Rice and Frenchie Pinoli would hang out at CCA all the time. CCA was that first dad bar up in Hoplin. All of these guys were in California and basically they would have Subcool and some of the biggest names in breeding and cannabis around Northern California.

1:32:14MarkPeople that Jed from Emerald Family Farms and these other individuals would just come by and hang out. And I got to be a fly on the wall and hear all these guys break bread. There was no ego clash and no competitions and dick waving. It was all about just the passion of the project and everybody was making a lot of money. And so it was such a communal area, something I cherish so much because everybody was just sharing tech, sharing context, supply chain, and All of these people were really trying to create an awesome foundation for the industry.

1:32:44MarkAnd so it wasn't until more of the competitions, the industry started getting slimmed down, more hashmakers came on the scene that, you know, people really started to lean into the brands and you saw more animosity build between some of these hashmakers. But that was a really free air and hash. It was cool to see that kind of transition with solventless mind and some of these other people start talking about tech, which would end up becoming rosin in that 2015, 2016 period.

1:33:10MarkAt the time, my old partner, Harrison, he has a brand called Hash Engineers. Him and I were up at Laytonville with Tim Blake, the founder of Emerald Cup, and we helped him set up a washroom. At the time, it was 50 bubble magics in one washroom. So at the time, we considered it one of the bigger labs in California. And so that's when we kind of got to sharpen our teeth on some breeding and on some growing.

1:33:38MarkSo really that was, I said that really kind of sparked my interest into looking into the rec market. I saw how Emerald Cup was getting their LLCs and becoming an official business. And I knew that the trap money and that quick money wasn't always gonna be sustainable. And so I got a little property out in Clear Lake. And it ended up burning down in the 2018 Mendocino Complex fires.

1:34:02MarkAnd that's when I knew I needed to get into the wreck. So I'm grateful for that, honestly. I ended up meeting my current partner now. His name is Joe Ryan. And he's a former Marine of about 11 years. He went to the Naval Academy on a football scholarship and ended up getting an engineering degree from there. And we started in this little tiny shop in Oakland in the shared usage space, you know, for the rec market, especially in the beginning there.

1:34:28MarkIt's just so over burdensome. I didn't understand the challenges between making shit in your backyard and jarring it up at your table to We're actually putting out a legal tested product and putting that on the shelf. So going through those types of hoops from, you know, our square footage in Oakland, Oakland square foot prices are usually around a dollar. We're playing, we are paying 450 a square foot.

1:34:51MarkAnd, you know, that type of thing was kind of extrapolated across their costs. And so it very much so became this professionalism of the business where we had to look at our cogs, we had to look at all these types of details into how to be able to put out something that we were proud of, we thought was quality, but was also accessible and consistent. And I think that last word is one of the hardest things in the industry is you see I think that's one great batch or a few great batches from people during a season, but not to have something that's continuous and something that across the board is a great product every time.

1:35:27MarkI think that's one, especially when you talk about flour, one of the biggest problems we see in the rec market, you know, we're in around a thousand stores up and down the state and we work with Alien Labs, a few different other stores. Thank you for joining us.

1:35:58MarkThank you for joining us today.

1:36:22MarkThat's what I do obsessions, just accessibility, education. My favorite thing to do is show somebody some fire hacks, that expression on somebody's face when they smoke something that's truly great or something they haven't really experienced before. I get off on that. That's what we want to curate more of, is trying to spread accessibility and education.

1:36:46SpeakerYou're on mute, Marcus. You're on mute. But one thing I wanted to add to Mark's story, Mark, Matt Rise, and shout out to, I think it's Dabs All Day in the chat, Brett Maverick. I think those are the first two hash makers Puffco ever seeded product to, like 2016. So just throwing that lore out there. It's crazy to hear those names.

1:37:05BubblemanInteresting. And shout out to Sub. Shout out to Subcool as well, because I mean, Sub was the man that made guys like Matt shine early on, even Frenchie, you know, they honed in. A great hash maker is someone who has an awareness to find the material they need if they're not growing it themselves. You have that olfactory, you have that ability to hone in on the uber high quality that you need to look for.

1:37:32BubblemanAnd, you know, when people first started making water hash, They were not all getting good material. They were getting stuff like, who the fuck, like Frosty was saying, who the fuck is smoking this? Like, what is this? So many people with water hash in particular before, and it's why BHO grew to be so popular because you'd get a sandy, shitty product if you didn't have exceptional weed.

1:37:54BubblemanSo the bags were basically saying, hey, you have shitty weed. But instead of hearing that, people would be like, Oh, I hear there's this other process that if you just blast it in a tube with like a can of butane, you get like a golden material and it'll look good. Now, it took a while before there were connoisseur butane consumers, probably a couple years. And now these guys were like taking 73 micron bubble hash or 120 micron bubble hash and blasting that alone.

1:38:21BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

1:38:46BubblemanNeeds to be either full melt or it needs to be something that's, you know, dabble and cleanable, like that you can use on a portable device. I got a shout out as well, Roger, this fucking pivot that you guys made recently. Dude, I am very impressed with that thing. I will be honest. I have every unit. Literally, I have a fucking like this is like stuff that people send me, send me right here.

1:39:09BubblemanLike this nine foot shelf right here is just boxes of shit that companies have sent me. This pivot is like probably my favorite portable device I've ever had. I cannot believe how big the clouds are. It gives me like, like a dab. Like I get almost a dab when I'm like on the mountain, you know, when I'm out and about in a way where I can't have, I don't want the glass, you know, I don't want this to be in my pocket or in my backpack if I fall.

1:39:36BubblemanThis fucking pivot is something different. I definitely want to know a little bit about sort of, you know, the design process behind it, what sets it apart from previous Puffco devices, and what kind of, from your perspective, makes it stand out for me. And don't get me wrong, I get amazing rips out of my 3D XL, but I swear to God, I think I get bigger rips out of that fucking pivot.

1:40:00SpeakerOh, I mean, that's hard to do in general, but thank you. Thank you for the kind words. I mean... You know, the pivot one is it holds a lot of our previous experience and knowledge. And that's why it's so good, right? Like we started with the 3D chamber and then scaled it up to the 3D XL and then scaled it down to the proxy, which is where the original development came from.

1:40:25SpeakerSo by the time we got to the pivot, we really knew what we were doing with heating, how to be extremely efficient. And it really started the whole conversation with Pivot with accessibility. We want to reach new users. And it's a little hard, even with a peak, even with a proxy, to reach people that aren't used to using any of these types of devices. So one was price point.

1:40:47SpeakerTwo was, can we make it in a form that would be a little more familiar, a little more accessible for a lot of people? And obviously that would be in this cylindrical shape. As far as how it looks, just like with the story of the OG peak of starting with this beer bottle of what's going to be okay in a room, at the time that we were developing the pivot, and they're still around today, you know those puff bars, those like cylindrical shaped, you know, whatever, e-liquid throwaway devices.

1:41:16SpeakerWe wanted something that could look at least from a distance similar to it. So you can have this little ripper in your hand. And it not raise any eyebrows. And then as far as the experience goes, that's really where like you start with these specs. You start with we want to make something accessible at this price point with this experience. A dab for us is baseline. It has to be satiating to pretty much everyone in this room or we just don't think it'll work with the general public.

1:41:47SpeakerThat being said, It really is a flex of how good the team is because I knew we were going to make something that would be good and satisfying. I had no idea that it would be that good. So by the time it got into its final versions, it was ripping me up. I highly recommend you throw some six star in there. The flavor you get from it, just because it's so close to your mouth and your taste buds.

1:42:12SpeakerIt really is an amazing experience. Like, not to toot our own horns. Obviously, I'm biased. I appreciate the positive feedback. But our road there was really with trying to reach new users. I think we had no idea that it would satiate super users the way that it does. Because the people I'm hearing from are less newbies today. They're more deeply experienced people saying, holy shit, how did you get something this small to work this well?

1:42:34SpeakerAnd that is a flex of when you have the team we have. Like, I can't take... Even a minority of the credit for it. That is a massive team effort on our end. But thank you. Thank you for the kind words.

1:42:51BubblemanAwesome. We got Scott coming into the room.

1:42:53SpeakerWe got a new new person jumping in here.

1:42:56BubblemanYeah, no, I have been smoking six star out of the pivot, in fact, almost exclusively, and it does taste incredible. The amount of air that you can suck in through the hole on the side, I think people don't realize when you're designing something and you're looking for what I call the sweet spot in whatever it is you're doing, you're looking for the sweet spot. You're going to check out the variables that exist within that unit, and then you're going to hone those things into the place where you hit it Perfect.

1:43:24BubblemanAs perfect as at least your awareness will allow you to perceive. The size of this hole. At first I looked at it, I thought that's a pretty big intake hole. It's definitely one of the main reasons, as well as obviously the design on the inside of the cap. Thank you so much for watching.

1:43:58BubblemanThanks for watching.

1:44:23BubblemanAnd honestly, as a photographer, I got to say the same thing about the iPhone. And it's the reason I always get the newest phone with the newest camera, because it's getting closer and closer to being the quality. Now, I have a professional camera that costs five G's and weighs eight pounds, and I have to carry like 43 lenses and nine batteries and the most insane amount of shit that you can possibly imagine.

1:44:47BubblemanAnd now I can kind of, you know, in this more portable device, still get 4K videos, still get quality products. So yeah, I can say that I appreciate that. And shout out to Scott. I see you now there, Mr. Deppie. I didn't, I was like, oh, Scott's coming in. Who's that? Oh, it's just Scott Deppie, you know, was literally just telling a mothership story of puffing a fab egg in an ice cave on my sled.

1:45:10BubblemanSo welcome, dude. You're muted, by the way. There you go.

1:45:13SpeakerOh, awesome. Awesome to be here.

1:45:18BubblemanYeah, just like another dude that really changed the game in regards to just how people looked at glass. You're like a pioneer in that sense. And I remember from many, many years ago, I, you know, Scott and I didn't, Scott and I also had an interesting sort of Probably maybe the only other person in the industry where Scott and I also didn't co-align the same, like I had a different experience with Scott than I did with you, Roger, but it's interesting because I feel like you're two very key figures and it would have been interesting to see if we had met 10 or 15 or 20 years ago, but Scott was originally in Mine and Marbleslinger, really, Aaron, I give the shout out to him.

1:46:02BubblemanI had a gallery, but Aaron had the influence and the connection to all these incredible glassblowers. Scott was super up and coming. And I remember it was like less than two years. He went from like this up and coming glassblower guy to To like the God that was like 100 feet above everyone else. It was just insane. The shit that he was producing very, very early on.

1:46:25BubblemanAnd this was coming from guys like Jason Lee and Aaron and Zach and... Oh, geez, Pedro Smiley, like all this whole group of Bellingham glassblowers that I met accidentally by simply picking up Marbleslinger, actually Marbleslinger. How about this? Representing today, brother. How about I just get the old Marbleslinger shirt to... I picked him up hitchhiking on my way down to see fish at the gorge in 1998.

1:46:53BubblemanThat's how I met Marble Slinger. And he sort of brought me into this incredible group of artists, really, of glassblowers. And from my perspective, like, it was like peanut butter meeting jelly, because I was this hash guy that wanted to turn everyone on to learning how to make hash and bags. And These guys were like creating the pipes that we would smoke this hash out of for the next however many years.

1:47:21BubblemanSo shout out to you, Scott Deppie. You're very, very welcome to be here on Hash Church. We're happy to have you.

1:47:27SpeakerThanks, bro. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. That's insane. Hey, what up, Roger? What up, dog? What up, Scott? Great to see you. Good to see you. Well, yeah. Marcus, I have to say, that's a crazy drop of lore. You picked up Marbleslinger. Hitchhiking on your way to a show is fucking crazy.

1:47:52BubblemanIt's crazier than that, dude. Because the actual real story is, first of all, if you know me really well, you'd know that I'm type A. Like super type A. I'm just like, let's go, go, go, go, go. People that have walked through airports with me can tell you they're like, Jesus Christ, man, this guy fucking is sprinting through the airport like a psychopath. And so I don't turn around ever.

1:48:14BubblemanI'll fucking run out of gas before I turn around. Even if I just pass, I'm getting better now in my fifties, but for most of my life, it's one way. Well, I passed this, this kid in full, like, like wook, You know, Lot Wook clothing, the patchwork, the corduroy clothes. And I passed him. He was on the wrong side of the road and he was standing in front of an A&W.

1:48:39BubblemanAnd I was driving a brand new car. This is the last time I went to the U.S. I haven't been to the U.S. since this show at the Gorge in 98. I wasn't really allowed to go and I somehow got across because I rented a car and went by myself and I followed the whole fish group that was leaving Vancouver. There was this giant circus of freaks and I looked the least freaky so I got through.

1:48:59BubblemanThank you, fish freaks. I appreciate that. Many took a bullet that day. So yeah, he's standing there. I pass him. And in my mind, my mind goes, you should go back and get some onion rings. And I'm like, what? Onion rings? I don't even like onion rings. Plus, I don't even eat at A&W. I'm having this conversation in my own mind. But the voice that says get onion rings wins.

1:49:20BubblemanAnd I turn around. And I go back and he's sitting on the other side of the street now. And I'm like, hey, dude, do you need a ride? He's like, yeah, bro, our car broke down. I'm like, well, come on over here. I just want to get onion rings. I'll never forget it because he gave me a beautiful Ohm marble while we were in line, me and this stranger.

1:49:38BubblemanTo get onion rings, because my brain, the way it works, because I'm so OCD and like type A, I'm not going to turn around unless I convince myself there's a good reason. And if I do that, I'm following through with whatever that reason was. So I'm getting onion rings that I'm not even going to fucking eat with this guy I don't even know. And then I say, OK, well, I'll give you a ride.

1:49:58BubblemanI'm going to the gorge, too. And then he hits me with, yeah, I have friends with me. And I'm like, oh, fuck, who are these friends going to be? Well, his friends We're Jason Lee and Jason Lee's girlfriend who did all the like patchwork pants and clothes. So yeah, 98 met those guys, trip balls with them at the gorge, fucking connected with the whole group. And then they realized I lived like 40 minutes from their house and where I live from Bellingham was like a 40 to 50 minute drive.

1:50:28BubblemanSo they started coming up here. I turned them all on to dabbing with the red oil. And oh, there's a whole incredible story that that is how I met Uh, or ever knew of, of Scott Deppy, like through that group of just this really special group of glass blowers that had this. And what was, uh, what was it called? Uh, Jay's space there, uh, tribe 13 or where all the other, where the, the, do you know that place, Scott?

1:50:56SpeakerWell, was that the spot down in Seattle, right?

1:51:01BubblemanYes, exactly. Yeah.

1:51:03SpeakerYeah, that was an amazing studio. Yeah, there was people in there, painters and woodworkers and welders and glassblowers. It was really cool. They were doing some fun stuff.

1:51:18BubblemanThe terrazzo wall made from just like beautiful headpieces that had broken.

1:51:26BubblemanHoly shit. Yeah, very cool space.

1:51:30SpeakerYeah, what a fun, what a fun time. Yeah, all those guys were really some of the most, they really, because it was right in the beginning of my career. So it was like the first like ready that I ever saw was on one of Slinger's pieces, you know? Yeah, dude. And then that got me. And then I saw Pedro had this This piece with these like marbles but they weren't round but they were they were yeah he teardropped them yeah he like teardropped them all out and they were like some of them would like were like yin yangs and like these other kind of little patterns and so it just i was like oh it just made my mind just race and i was like oh you can basically just draw anything you want and then so i it really like that's what really like evolved You know, so it was, uh, it's, you know, kudos to those guys.

1:52:36SpeakerIt was perfect universe. You know, it really was when I moved here. Cause I, I didn't know anybody and I didn't love glass. And so it was, uh,

1:52:48BubblemanAnd so what year did you move there? Like 98 or 9 or something?

1:52:52Speaker97 in December. 97. Yeah, because my son was born in 98 in March.

1:53:01BubblemanAnd so were you in the Herbert Arnold crew? Like, did you jump on that, those Herbert Arnold torches that Ezra bought everyone?

1:53:08SpeakerYeah, because I had, yeah, I did. I was like, because Marcel and Ezra got like an order of like 25 torches or something. And so, yeah, yeah, I had a CC plus was my first torch. But then, you know, when I saw the Herbert Arnold and I was like, okay, it's sold, you know, and so, yeah, it was really cool to basically have that from, you know, the very beginning, you know, because it really is, it's a really amazing experience.

1:53:42BubblemanNo, it's insane that you guys were blowing on them. Like most of the artists when I met them in like 98 had no idea how much the torch could do. They were using it in a very base way. I actually took hops and Dizzle To the Herbert Arnold factory in Germany when we all went on a trip. We met in Amsterdam and I drove them in a van and it was another crazy, insane experience to introduce both Hopps and Dizzle to Martin from Ruhr so they could do their collaborations in Blowglass and Frankenthal, Germany.

1:54:16BubblemanBut also just, yeah, that whole experience was to go to the Herbert Arnold factory and see what that company actually does. I would urge any glassblower that uses those torches or has a respect and an understanding of those torches to go to that factory because it will absolutely blow your fucking mind. It's insane. It's the most insane factory I've ever been in my life. And I don't even know how many acres big it was.

1:54:43SpeakerYeah. I haven't been there yet, but I've seen pictures and heard stories.

1:54:48BubblemanYou should go. I can promise you, Scott, that if you reached out to them before you went and like they would want in a big way. In fact, I know they do want because here's a story that connects you to the Herbert Arnold factory. Dizzle was wearing one of your buckles on his belt. He had, he had a Deppie belt buckle and he was, and the lady was like, they wanted it for their museum because I remember Deppie saying, yeah, this was blown on a, on a, and he had a few other little pieces, but she was blown away by the, it was like a Raticello belt buckle.

1:55:22BubblemanThat Dizzle had. I'd have to ask him about it if it doesn't sound familiar to you, but you were brought up in that moment. And if you went there, bring them a piece of glass because they have a small museum when you walk in and it's all of this special glasses on display and you should absolutely be in the Herbert Arnold Museum, dude.

1:55:41SpeakerYeah, I'll definitely bring him a little something.

1:55:44BubblemanYeah, dude. All right on. Good to have you in the church. Oh my goodness. How are you doing, Wade? You're eating a little food and staying on the up and up?

1:56:00BubblemanGive the thumbs up. Beautiful, beautiful.

1:56:04SpeakerYes, I am. I'm having some food that I just made for myself.

1:56:14SpeakerGood way to start the day, feed the body. Absolutely. Very much enjoying the conversation about the tools associated with hashish consumption.

1:56:31SpeakerI don't really have a lot to say about what's being discussed at the moment. A deep appreciation for the intense focus on quality, both in the tools And the supply chain of the materials used in the tools. It's reflective of the same kind of passion for quality and Uh, cleanliness, if you will, uh, that we bring to our work with cannabis plant and the concentrates that we all love so much and make in such beauty.

1:57:12SpeakerUm, yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go back to eating my breakfast and I would like to pop in and, and spout off a little bit when we have time, Marcus, for that. Absolutely. Yeah. Go enjoy your breakfast. Finish my breakfast.

1:57:25BubblemanYeah. Thank you for your perspective as always. The importance of a tool when you think of hashish consumption, when I think of like the cultures that I think of that puff the toughest, and then I think of the tools that those cultures designed to puff the toughest, like to the top of my mind comes both, um, The Jamaicans with that steam pipe, because that is fucking mental.

1:57:50BubblemanI'm like, holy Christ. And shout out to Red Mark Lynch, who's probably no longer with us. Old school Rastafari from Negril, who taught me how to make the Jamaican steam pipe, which is ended up published in Cannabis Culture in like maybe 2000.

1:58:05SpeakerWhat year was that, Marcus?

1:58:07BubblemanIt would have been like probably close to the year that we went together, Sam. So like maybe 03, 04.

1:58:14SpeakerOkay, yeah, because Jamaican steamers have been around for at least 100 years, if not longer.

1:58:20BubblemanOh, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I certainly wasn't learning as it was a new thing. It was, to me, a new thing. But also, even above that, I would put the Afghan culture with the hubbly bubbly. And thanks to Sam and Sid, the owner of the hubbly bubblies that always came to Legends of Hash. Which also started in around 2002 or three, I believe. Legends of Hash, the first time Sam and I threw that event in Amsterdam.

1:58:45BubblemanBut yeah, the legends really opened up. The whole thing about legends was to have this insane appreciation for an evening of hashish for really the most obsessed people who just are smoking the most obscene amounts. And Sam was like, let's bring the hubbly bubbly. And then just sort of on his own whim started dumping grams of All right, let's move on to the next one.

1:59:26BubblemanTo create that appreciation, I think the tools now more than ever, because before for the hardcore cultures, it was about just getting the most amount of smoke. But now we've shifted to flavor, right? We want that experience, but we also don't want to destroy or ruin the flavor, which obviously as we heat anything up, That's kind of what we're doing. I guess it's in the balance. The delicate nature is in the balance of how well you can produce something.

1:59:53BubblemanAnd I know from helping D-Nail over the years, because even in my drawer here, I have titanium, I have quartz, I have silicone carbide, I have sapphire, I have ruby. I have all of these different things that I spent years, as did Etienne, smoking off of these different things Thank you so much for joining us.

2:00:43BubblemanThat's when I wanted them.

2:00:59BubblemanWhich is fucking 10 years.

2:01:00SpeakerWell, big team. Definitely can't take their credit. Actually, a great segue for me to ask Scott a question because, you know, low temp dabbing is a road that we walk down once it was already built. And like, I think Scott gets a lot of the credit for low temp dabbing. So like, I have a couple of questions for Scott, if it's okay. The low temp dabbing story, I think, is just a great one that needs to be on wax and people need to hear.

2:01:26SpeakerSo like, Can we start with that, Scott? Can you, like, tell us what your experience with going from, like, really smoking and burning dabs to this moment of, holy shit, you can vaporize this at a much lower temp? You know, it was, like, the first time that I made butane hash was in 98. And so that was the same year that I started blowing glass, you know, so...

2:01:56SpeakerIt was, it was, I instantly went out, you know, after we, because we heard that you could make cash this way. And so we had this ounce of snow bud. We blasted it. We, I went out to the shop. I made this, looked like a little crack bulb, really. It was just like a down, down stem bent over with a whole You know, popped it, blown out the side of a little bulb.

2:02:27SpeakerAnd we got that thing so hot because we had just spent, you know, like $400 on this ounce and then just blasted it and got this like little tiny bit of hash. And so we... I just figured if there was any left in there, then you were wasting it, you know? And so we heat this thing up all super hot and we hit it and it's like the most I've ever been.

2:02:55SpeakerIt was like, it was insane. It was, but every little piece of hash that you put in there, no matter how much would It would get smoked, you know, and so it was it literally when it started being it was this thing that was more like Everclear or something like it's not really what you want to drink, but it would get you the most the most fucked up.

2:03:17SpeakerAnd so I would rather just smoke more weed, you know, and because it tastes way better than these hot ass dabs. But, you know, every once in a while. We would, we would break them out, you know, and then, and that was like my experience for at least like five years. I, you know, we would smoke it, but I wasn't that into it, you know, and, and then at when, when I started Mothership, we, I had the swing bucket, the honey bucket.

2:03:49SpeakerAnd when that first came out, this is like pre-banger and everything. You know, it was like, like the only things were like the, they were swinging the big titanium plates underneath the little Hoover dome things and getting them just red hot titanium ones, swinging them under there. And so we started making the honey bucket, which was a quartz bucket that would swing in and out. And, but it had no, it had no cap on it and it had no, uh, And with and without a cap, what I learned later is that you got to smoke it like so much hotter, you know, so I really never got to enjoy hash that much until literally this one time I put the hash in the honey bucket and it wasn't quite hot enough.

2:04:40SpeakerAnd so I went to hit it and no smokes rolling off of it. And so I went to like set it down on the bench and as I like was setting it down I watched this like smoke like kind of waft out of the bowl and I was like what it's it is hot nothing so I went to hit it and it and I got nothing I went to set it down and it like this little puff of the smoke came off of it and I and then I came up and I was like what and I blew into the bowl and this like huge cloud of smoke came off of it and I was like what is going on and then I like tried to suck on it and nothing comes out and I'm like All right, so I just, so I wait, so I need to make some kind of device that'll plug the top of it, but that'll directionally blow air onto the thing.

2:05:26SpeakerSo then it'll make like, you know, like what, what just happened when I, when I blew on it, you know? And so I, I went, I made a makeshift little like cap and that went over the thing over the top of the honey bucket. And I, I'm going to be honest with you guys. I'm going to be honest with you guys. I'm going to be honest with you guys.

2:06:01SpeakerIt tastes, it was just, I ended up calling it the OFZ cap, you know, because it was the optimum flavor zone. It was like this perfect, it was like, because if you took the cap off and you were trying to hit it, it wouldn't smoke. But when you put the cap on, boom, it would start smoking. So it was just, it was this lower temperature dab that I had never experienced before.

2:06:23SpeakerAnd then I like got this taste that I had never, and I had been smoking the same hash. Thank you so much for having me.

2:06:43SpeakerIt would just, it tainted the experience for me at that point. And so I really like stopped smoking that much like weed and like really started just embracing the hash and going down and like discovering new flavors that I had never ever experienced, you know? So I was just, I was addicted at that point. I was like my, well, I was the hash, man. I want to thank you for that, Scott.

2:07:09SpeakerLike, I feel like that, in this timeline, in this hash timeline that we're on, in my life, that changed everything. I didn't even know it was happening at the time. Like, I was... Thank you for joining us.

2:07:39SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:08:07SpeakerAnd your own journey, Scott, I was watching from that point. And I know that your earlier work was super artistic, not that it's ever not been artistic, but really focused on art. And it seemed like on flower as well. But then as mothership developed, it seemed like you got to this point of really functional innovation, going from things focused on flower to things focused on hash. From both how water flows to the device and how it's actually being vaporized.

2:08:36SpeakerAnd you made that whole system, which to me is a product company owner is insane. That was just with your own two hands, you have ideas and you're making these things that change a space. I would love to hear how you kind of went from flower focused devices to things that were really made for hash and concentrate consumption in general. If you could tell us that.

2:09:00SpeakerWell, I may be a long story. It was that it was that moment when my when my love changed, you know, I've just been my whole journey has been Just trying to make a better experience for myself, you know, like smoking experience. And so once I was like onto the hash, then I just was like trying to figure out how to like make that the best experience possible, you know?

2:09:27SpeakerAnd so just really, you know, I feel like just really like breaking up the, the, The air a lot into like micro bubbles and then really like having it kind of go into one water mass and stuff. And then it just helps release even like more of the flavor, you know, it seems like that's what. So then started doing a lot of things with like donuts and like the recycling effects and stuff.

2:09:59SpeakerAnd it seems like you get a really amazing flavor with it.

2:10:05BubblemanThere's no doubt about it. Those the Taurus and the Fab Egg and the Klein and all of these like just turning people on to all of these different You know, formations or methods of inhaling through. And truly, as I, because, you know, not only did I go down the road of being obsessed with all the different things I was vaporizing off of, like sapphire versus ruby versus quartz and their different abilities to retain and release heat, I also loved the different pipes.

2:10:40BubblemanAnd, you know, like I... You know, Ham Waterworks was always amazing for thinking differently and really like, you know, getting outside of the box of the norm.

2:10:50SpeakerBates. Recycler guy, you know, that was like, you know, he made the first recycler that like, I mean, that gave birth to every other one after it, you know, so. And most of them still to this day are just one of, Just his exact recycler, you know. And they just put it in a little different shape, a little different, but it's the exact same thing. Kudos to him.

2:11:17SpeakerHe's the man.

2:11:19BubblemanYeah, totally. Shout out to him. And Bates was another one that always sort of was just thinking outside of the box. Just a real wild guy. Unique, unique mind. And I don't know what it is with artists, but you gotta, you gotta be a little bit tortured, a little bit tortured. And you just, you produce exceptionally. Is that what we are?

2:11:38SpeakerIs that what we are?

2:11:39BubblemanI mean, in a wonderful way. Absolutely.

2:11:43SpeakerIt would be very interesting to have a timeline history book. Of all of these different vaporization methods, whether it be herbal, or concentrates, or whatever it is, it would be really interesting to have a truly comprehensive one. I was a part of the first herbal vaporizer that I know of, which in 1985 was

2:12:17SpeakerDeveloped by my friend Jeff Card in Santa Cruz, when I told him a few years before that, I told him, you know, what we really need is a small little equivalent of a hookah pipe, but that instead of using combustion, We would be able to like nuke it with microwaves or something that would vaporize it without the combustion. And what he came up with around 85, if I remember correctly, was an electric hot air gun.

2:13:01SpeakerSo he was the very first one to come out with an electric cut. He used a brawn. I think it was a hot air gun for paint stripping or something.

2:13:13BubblemanAnd that was what Eagle Bill used years later, which I think Adam Dunn showed him.

2:13:19SpeakerYes, he did use it years later. But Jeff Card was the very first one. He couldn't come up with what I wanted. But he did come up with that and he freely shared it and gave it so that places like the dispensaries up in San Francisco, the ones run by Dennis Perrone, he freely gave the information to them and it spread around very quickly and it's evolved.

2:13:52SpeakerIt's funny, I think maybe the oldest vaporizing, Is not with cannabis. In fact, it's with opium pipes, which use a vaporization technique. But cannabis, the oldest might be the ones that are used by the Rastafarians in Jamaica. Or there's a few other ones that are really quite old, but the first electric one we came up with.

2:14:31BubblemanYeah, well, that paint gun was no joke. And shout out to Mark McCoy from Vrip Tech, who was the first person to really become aware and share the awareness that you should use a ceramic heater core, which Steinel at the time had the world patent on. So he was really a Steinel guy for the gun because some of the guns did not use a ceramic heater core and they had asbestos actually.

2:14:55BubblemanYeah, a lot of them did.

2:14:56SpeakerThat's the first thing that Jeff did was, Make sure that the brand was safe from investors.

2:15:03BubblemanYeah, no, I bet. I'm sure he wouldn't have been. But people cut corners with the copycats, right? They're like, oh, you don't need to get an expensive unit like that. You can just do this with this toxic metal that you're inhaling every time you take a rip and shortening your life expectancy. Oh, my God, that's terrible.

2:15:20Etienne FontanI got a question for Scott. So, Scott, this is a Taurus. Love it. Probably one of my all-time favorite pipes ever designed. My wife uses one. I love them. The function that y'all created, I know it was a team effort of multiple glass blowers, and you went through how many different But it seems the Taurus seems to have stood the test of time, such as your huge marijuana skull, the internals in that were the Taurus, if I recall from hitting it and talking to you back in 2015 at Chalice or something like that.

2:16:01Etienne FontanAnd I was fortunate to go with Todd McCormick to interview you. Unfortunately, that interview never aired, but going through and you were showing us your pieces specifically, but even that Grateful Dead pipe you designed, if I'm not mistaken, you also made that a Taurus. So what makes the Taurus kind of the workhorse of the mothership?

2:16:27SpeakerWell, one is that it's like, it's my original design, you know, and it's, you know, it's spawned from hams, but hams is like, you know, it's two different chambers. One is going into the other and then it, And then it has the recycling part that goes down and comes into the bottom of the other one. And so I was trying to like have a similar effect of that, but without copying him, you know, and that was how like I like all the designs that I've ever done are just are.

2:17:06SpeakerAre you like a lot of times they're inspired from something else and somebody else, but I'm not wanting to step on their toes. I'm just wanting to actually be inspired from the effect of what they were doing, you know, and so in trying to get a similar effect in another way. And then the Taurus was, yeah, I just kind of had this, this vision of it. And then It's the pattern that the water moves in.

2:17:35SpeakerIt is like a torus. It's like it's, you know, it's coming up outside and it's spinning and it and then it goes through itself and then back up around itself and then through itself and back up around itself. So it's like it's the same motion as the universe has, you know, and so it's just it's like it's in all sorts of natures. You know, when you blow a smoke ring, it's the it's the Taurus, you know, and there's like there's just so so it was just a really cool thing that that.

2:18:10SpeakerI don't know that I kind of stumbled upon, but then it's, it's like the engine now. And so you can kind of put the, you know, just like a 454 is in all sorts of trucks and sports cars and all sorts of things. And just that's the same way with the, it's like the engine, you know, and the workhorse. And then you can put it in all these different body styles and illustrate it a little bit and get some different effects with it and stuff and stuff.

2:18:39SpeakerReally, that's why I've kind of stuck with it as my favorite, you know, and because it's all about all the sacred geometry, all our perks, like perk through like the flower of life, most of them are the seed of life. And so it's just sticking in that same flow of sacred geometry because so many things in glass are... It just kind of naturally it almost naturally happens you know because when you if you put lines on a tube and you just hold it there and spin it and heat it up it'll it'll gradually start to just spin and then it'll make a spiral and then you can put lines on it and spin it the other way and then let gravity be pulling on it and it'll Thank you for joining us.

2:19:56SpeakerYou have the tourists.

2:20:00BubblemanAbsolutely, man. Very, very cool stories. I love to hear them. That's awesome. What about when you went from when you got finally turned on to Full Melt Bubble? Was that kind of like, you know, when you were because you'd been smoking the BHO, but then suddenly you were you're going to make some bubble hash. Someone made some and showed you something special. What was it like? What was that all about?

2:20:23SpeakerI mean, it was a I mean, the first time was I actually I was going down to Teach a class in California. And my friend that was growing up in Humboldt, he was like, oh, I'm going to, I have this amazing hash that we just made. And he called it, he's like, it's like the temple ball. And I was like, well, I've never had the temple ball.

2:20:52SpeakerBut I was like, he was like, I'm going to bring you a ball of it so you guys can smoke it during your class. And he brings down this like golf ball size. It was like literally the size of a golf ball. And, you know, there's like eight or nine kids in the class. And we're like, I was like, looks like we got our work cut out for us, you know?

2:21:16SpeakerSo we were like, so honestly, we were like, oh, we need to make something to like smoke this out of, you know? So we made like a... It was basically... It looked like a bong, but then the hole, it was like a hole in the bottom of it and it came up through and then it percolated back into the water. So it was just like a water, water hoover pretty much.

2:21:43SpeakerAnd so then we were doing like knife hits underneath this water hoover of this bubble hash that was like, uh, It was just, I just hadn't ever seen anything like it before. It was just like, it was just like milked. If you like, if we left it out, it would start to just like puddle out a little bit, you know? So, and it was just so sticky and like, just nothing that I had ever seen before.

2:22:09SpeakerI had like a, you know, I had a Keith box. So I did like, if the weed was very good, you'd have like a little bit of like something in there. But this was like the big ball of, And we so we tried to say I literally we tried to smoke it like during this class that was like five days long and then we but I had to give half of it back to him when I left because we just couldn't get it was just so good.

2:22:35BubblemanDude I love that you chose to smoke it the most like efficient way through blades like you that would get you the high first of all anyone that has ever Like smoking blade rips of full mount bubble is a super intense high. Like really, when you're not blowing glass, it's a super intense high. So like of all the ways they could have smoked that hash, that would be the way that would assure that you would not finish the golf ball size ball of hash.

2:23:07BubblemanIt was so funny. At one point,

2:23:10SpeakerAt one point, everybody in the class, I had looked over and they were like sleeping. They're like, it was so funny. I was like, oh, I was like, he got a good one. Now he's dozing off.

2:23:27BubblemanThat's awesome. I was at the Cannabis Cup in Amsterdam and I think it was in like 95 and Eagle Bill had that like heat gun thing that Sam was talking about with this giant big, it was like the Lucky Mother set up. It was this huge glass, like ridiculous size glass. Like you would have looked at it and been like, oh my God, dude, you're losing all your efficiency and too many of your flavors.

2:23:50BubblemanYou're fucking killing me. But anyway, he had it all set up and it had this big glass tube come off of it and Thank you for watching.

2:24:16BubblemanYou see, ladies and gentlemen, this is the amazing medicinal aspects of cannabis. This man hasn't slept for five days and he's cracking this incredibly timed joke like at this poor guy's expense that literally just got huddled in front of Eagle Bill's booth. But yeah, those are the good old days. Back in the day when funny things would happen. Hey, as we were shouting out Ham, I would be remiss if I didn't show his gravity bong that he did for me so many years ago.

2:24:49BubblemanThis thing is in... You can smoke a gram of bubble hash at a time with this thing. I shit you not.

2:24:59SpeakerI love those things. He had... I saw one of those that was a... It was like a whole entire carnival recycler type one. So you would pull it up and like water spinning and doing all this crazy stuff and just like filled with smoke and everything. And it was so, but it's all like water filtered gravity bong, you know? So it's a good hit. It's not like a, Like old school in college gravity bong, you know.

2:25:30BubblemanNo, it's incredible. I was giving people, I watched Jodi Emery smoke a gram of like five star bubble hash out of this thing. It was boiling and exploding. I was pulling it up super slow. It was so thick. She just... When you took a hit out of this thing, it didn't hurt you. No matter how much smoke you took, it cooled it in such a magical way that your brain could not possibly wrap itself around.

2:25:58BubblemanSo yeah, shout out to Ham Bone there. Marcus, if we're ever in the same place where that rig is, I got to try it. You absolutely have to try this thing. This will be at the next Legends of Hash for sure, wherever that's going to take place.

2:26:14SpeakerOh yeah, I'll definitely be there for that one. While we're talking about like pieces that have affected our lives, I had to go in and have my ladies help in finding this. I have one of these that when I originally got it, actually had a titanium nail with a little slit in the back, Scott. And this very specific piece, this one right here that I bought from a homie, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:26:56SpeakerI'm not sure if that's the right way to put it. I'm not sure if that's the right way to put it.

2:27:18SpeakerAnd I took a rip, a low temp rip, super low. It was on the titanium, so there was no heat retention on that thing. And it also all spilled out of the back. It's like a really old male design, this one I replaced it with. And that was the first time I ever experienced a vaporized hash hit, which to me was... We'll be right back.

2:27:55SpeakerThis device specifically, Scott, changed my life. And I like it took being on this show for me to run out and be like, hey, babe, do we still have that mothership somewhere? And here we go. Been in my possession now probably nine years. So thank you, G. I keep saying it, but I owe you a ton, not just for inventing low temp dabbing or not inventing it, but discovering it in your own way.

2:28:17SpeakerI'm sure many people saw it. That's good. Cool.

2:28:44SpeakerAbsolutely. It's been, yeah, it's been amazing, man. And kudos to the new chamber, man. It really nailed it, you know. It's getting hot on the sides. It's getting hot down below. It's like good size, deep enough. Well done, sir. Well done. I just wanted to mention that I was looking at my historical collection of vape pipes and what I found was that the first vape pipe that I know of was a Chinese or possibly Portuguese taught the Chinese how to vape opium in a opium pipe.

2:29:43SpeakerThe second one that I was familiar with is a steamer from Jamaica. And the next one I remember was 1971. There was an oil, red oil put out called The One. And it gave a little glass pipe to smoke it. And then in 72, honey oil was available. It was a little glass pipe with a ball at the end with one little tiny air hole. And a long glass tube connected to that.

2:30:21SpeakerAnd you would heat the glass ball with the oil inside the glass ball so it didn't combust. It only vaporized. But also there was weird little devices in between, like around 75, the tilt vaporizer. And then after that, of course, the volcano and the gravity bombs, the electric nails, and... One of the latest ones I've seen was an induction pipe that used small, tiny, little titanium bars.

2:30:57SpeakerAnd it gives an incredible taste, the first hit. But the second hit, it's not so great.

2:31:08SpeakerSkunk Man, I'm curious, can you elaborate more on that Portuguese vaporizer for opium that the Chinese... This is actually the first I'm hearing about this. I'm very, very curious. It's every opium pipe that you've ever seen. It's a long band of... I haven't seen many. With a saddle and then a clay round bowl with a spiny hole in it. That you put the little donut shape of opium around that little hole, and then you turn it upside down and smoke it with a oil lamp, which gives you the correct exact heat that you need to vaporize and not combust the opium.

2:32:01SpeakerAll right, my next mission, I know Puffco Admin is listening to this. We got to find some opium pipes. I'm so curious. I'm unfamiliar with this part of the vaporizer journey. I have a huge collection of them, but I don't like opiates at all. I'm not using them myself, but I'll throw some hash in there and see how it works. The technology, just like when I visited Cuba, I was very interested in how they're able to produce the finest tobaccos.

2:32:31SpeakerCigars in the world, but I never smoked tobacco. I never will, but I'm just interested in how they're able to achieve the very best of a particular product. Where are you located, Skunk Man? Well, I'm located in Amsterdam. You're in Amsterdam. Okay. I'm from California, but I've lived here longer than I lived in America. I'm an American. Me and my team will be in Europe next year.

2:33:05SpeakerI think, I mean, this should be offline, but I'd love to stop by if you're open to it and see some of these pipes and cover them. I mean, this is just such an interesting part of the story. And if you've been collecting them all this time, I think, I think it's something people would love to see. Right. I wish I had some Afghan hubbly bubblies, but I don't have any of those in my house.

2:33:28SpeakerA couple of my friends have have Nice ones they started collecting in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. But yeah.

2:33:37BubblemanDude, Sid's got that one that's 100 years old or over 100 years old.

2:33:42SpeakerYeah, Sid has that, not me.

2:33:45BubblemanYeah, but you've smoked out of it many times.

2:33:47SpeakerOh, that's absolutely for sure. And the first couple of legends we had, we were smoking mainly cigarettes.

2:33:58SpeakerMy dry sip because nobody else had great dry sip and then we started getting really great water hash and other people started coming up with all different kinds of wonderful concentrates.

2:34:12BubblemanIt's true. You were definitely a big inspiration in that. Roger, you did a pretty cool thing I saw not too long ago that I really was like, I don't like want to, like, I don't get FOMO very often. I'm more of a, you know, just happy to be missing out than a fear of missing out as I get older. But the event you did, the Bring Me Your Jar, that was in Colorado, was it?

2:34:37SpeakerThe Jar Check, yeah, we'll be doing, we'll definitely be doing more of those. It's something we love doing. It put me on to a couple new hash makers that I feel like I otherwise never would have ran across. You know, Portal Provisions is one of them. I believe he placed pretty high in Smoking Jacket. I love that. It's an amazing thing to do. You'll definitely be seeing a lot of that from us.

2:35:02SpeakerIn the next year, there might be one we're doing this year, potentially, potentially in the next few weeks, actually. But we loved it. It was just a random thought of we're in a city we haven't been in a while, pretty long time. So I was in Denver before that jar check. We just wanted to see what people had. It wasn't a, are you a hash maker? Come promote it.

2:35:21SpeakerIt's, are you a hash consumer? Come show us what you have. If you're a maker, come by as well. But we just want to see what people are smoking and enjoying. And it wasn't actually a hash maker who put me on to those amazing brands. It was somebody who does work in the space, but again, isn't the hash maker, isn't the owner of those companies. So for us in this reality we're in, I think some of the best hash makers out there are the worst marketers you'll ever meet in your life.

2:35:48SpeakerThey're, you know, committed to the resin. They're committed to manufacturing and they don't know how to present themselves online. So for us, it's a wonderful opportunity to just get out there in the street, see what people are using and not tether it to who can gain the most hype on the internet. So we'll definitely be doing more of that and hopefully in your hood one day, Bubble Man.

2:36:11BubblemanYeah, no, listen, I'll tell you, I had this similar idea not to, like the reason I thought of this similar idea was to do it as a scouting format for Legends of Hash, to be able to put energy in to find people that deserved a chance rather than just the people with the largest social media following, because the original Legends, when Sam and I started it, It was really about your hash.

2:36:38BubblemanAnd it didn't matter who you were. You know, groups would come to us and be like, oh, we, you know, we got it's the DNA crew. We need eight tickets. And we're like, oh, no, like everyone that wants a ticket has to show their hash that they're going to bring. It's like you don't get a ticket because of you are a certain person connected to a certain group.

2:36:54BubblemanYou get a ticket because your hash passed the muster. And that's what Legends started being very soon after we created it. But to have You know, we would definitely look to have a close relationship with Jarcheck from Legends of Hash in regards to finding new and upcoming talent that deserves that chance to compete.

2:37:15SpeakerYeah, well, I mean, honored that, yeah, totally honored. That would be amazing. And we'll connect offline and see how we can do some stuff together. If there's a way to coordinate leading up to a show, that would be helpful. And I'm sure people will be excited at the chance. I mean, there's... There was somebody, there was a show, I think it was up in Toronto. I didn't get to try her stuff, but it was really a story of like what's out there that we just don't know about.

2:37:40SpeakerI think her Instagram account is hashqueenx. This could actually be a great, is Julian here still? Yes, Juliana. She's the person who put me on where she's in Toronto and she's like, there's this amazing resin here, this woman whose account is hashqueenx, and it's all single source. And it's like the tiniest little grow you would ever see. And the resin is immaculate. And if you go to her IG page, there's barely any Instagram posts.

2:38:05SpeakerShe's got maybe a couple thousand followers. I haven't gotten to meet her. I haven't gotten to try her hash. But that's one of the people that's really committed to doing excellent work that isn't there for the fame or the recognition. They just want to make incredible resin. And we want to find those people and platform them. What method did she use to make her hash? Juliana can speak to that.

2:38:27SpeakerShe was there. And yeah, I believe we gave Juliana the intro. My personal hash goat. This is the person I call when I just need any type of feedback or insight on how to judge resin or what makes great resin. You know, she's been working with Popcos for some time. So yeah, to my teacher. Thank you, Juliana. Can you please give us more insight on that? Of course.

2:38:47SpeakerWhat was the question? Sorry.

2:38:52SpeakerHow is the method that she used? Yeah, what method is she used to? Well, she is doing very traditional the way that she is washing is all by hand. She has really small crops that she is growing on regenerative soil, organic soil. I get very impressed with her work. She also showed me some air dry that looks so homogenic and beautiful. She has her operation by her own.

2:39:26SpeakerAnd for me, it was one of the best house that I had the opportunity to smoke and have in my hands in Toronto this year. And was that dry sip or was it water half? No, it was water hash. Yes, but I did have the opportunity to check one dry sieve in Toronto, just one, because everyone brings mostly rosin and some people really nice water hash, but just one person bring to the table a beautiful dry sieve static in Toronto.

2:39:58SpeakerYeah, well, one of the big problems, of course, is that water has to get two or three times the yield from the same material that you'll get from dry sifting.

2:40:08BubblemanSo there's a bigger problem than that, Sam. The bigger problem than that is to make exceptional dry sift. You truly have to have the most exceptional cannabis and most people miss the mark in that. That's why it's been like this since you learned this process, Sam. There are the smallest percentage of people have beautiful, static, sifted, dry sift heads only that are six star. It's like a unicorn.

2:40:40BubblemanIt's nice when you find it though.

2:40:41SpeakerHere in Europe, here in Europe that the hash is a huge culture in Europe. We don't see many high level of dry seed, but as maybe I'm sure that you know, DJ Confa from Growers With Attitude, he... That's a beautiful, beautiful work with the dry seed. You just can't see all the heads. It's really, really beautiful what he does. And like here, maybe I can name other four persons that I'm saying, oh, wow, level.

2:41:13SpeakerThere is also Ignacia's Gourmet that is here with us that... For me, he's one of the best hash makers from Europe, for sure in my top two like hash makers in Spain. And he's very also hash lover in the oil techniques. Yeah, there are three hash makers here that, you know, speaking of things you find when you travel the world, are you sharing your screen? Things you find when you travel the world and you're looking for what's out there.

2:41:44SpeakerAnd I'd love if they could just tell a little bit of their stories or maybe Julie, if you can intro them because they're all doing very different things. You know, Iso Gourmet, I believe has been credited with doing this modern cold curing of water hash and Vastagonia is using, Really, really heady techniques for extracting his water hash. And Columbia Exotics, I tried a, I believe it was a diamond runts that had some sour in there, but was super prevalent on the sour.

2:42:12SpeakerIt is my golden memory of being in South America is the stuff that he's done. So like, I know that we're, especially also with Alice being in Brazil right now, there's a little bit of an international shine. If it's okay, I just love to hear some of their perspectives on their unique approaches to extracting resin. Not to take away the show.

2:42:36SpeakerYes, for example, Ignacy from Ice Gourmet. I think that is one of the most older hash makers from this new generation that we have right now here in Europe. For sure, he is the pioneer in the cold techniques, I think, the cold cure techniques here in Europe. And yes, we would love to listen to you, Ignacy.

2:43:00SpeakerYou are mute.

2:43:05SpeakerWho are you saying that to?

2:43:08BubblemanIgnacio.

2:43:09SpeakerIgnacio is Ice Gourmet, yes, from Spain.

2:43:14WadeYeah, yeah. Here in Spain, the thing in Europe, more than you say, I think, is the culture of the hash become from the beginning for East to near to Africa, to Morocco, and always smoke hash. And the water hash tech start for people like me or like Babelman, want better resins. For always smoke Moroccan hash and arrive one point here in Spain, I am start to do it, this work maybe in, I think in

2:43:57Wade2004, I think, or 2003. The first time I do that is with the Babel Man Bags. And I stay so surprised with this deck and the flavor and the taste. You take with this method for always I smoke a Moroccan hash in a split and later when become the hash start a A new world for me and I open my eyes and all the possibilities is possible do it with the hash and find some different terms and enjoy in a good way this resin.

2:44:42WadeAnd here in Europe, always smoke hash and find good ways for smoking in... And for that, always curate the hash. In the beginning, you don't need curate the hash for always you wash maybe more dry material than the fresh for not stay in the mind, the culture for take the good resin. And I think not doing that for anybody know exactly the way for manipulate this fresh resin for I remember when I do it the first shots and do it with fresh material.

2:45:26WadeIt's so crazy. And anybody do it this, not have info for anybody. And I start to do it experiments and I start to mix it, dry material with fresh material for it's more easier manipulate the resin. And later when you do it, the joint is more razor. But later, I find a good way for do the fresh frozen and become a crazy way. This I think in 2010 I started to do it with fresh materials and it's crazy and I see it's not possible do it one joint with this resin for it's not possible manipulate and the only way is possible Make a little piece frozen and broken and mix it with the tobacco.

2:46:25WadeAnd for that, start to curate and find good ways for doing this work.

2:46:36SpeakerWhat you are saying is that they needed to found the good, like not quality, but yes, maybe kind of material that we could mix it with the tobacco because the culture here in Europe is so close to how he say Morocco and also Pakistan and Afghanistan that we use it to smoke the hash with tobacco. And for this, he was just... Understanding how was the better way to arrive to this kind of material and he started to experiment with the cold cure.

2:47:11SpeakerThis is the way that he, for me, was the first to create cold cure hash here in Europe. Like right now it's very, very famous around the world because people is loving it in these last two years maybe, no? But yeah.

2:47:28BubblemanWhen you got your first bags, you said 2003, 2004. Would that have been like in Barcelona at La Fiera High Life, like back in the early days before it was Spanibus, Ignacio?

2:47:41WadeThis bag, I remember I coming for work from Istanbul. I am a chef and I work in one year in Istanbul. And when come back, some friend I work in another restaurant, it's a close friend for he's a, All the hash lover in this time for smoking Moroccan hash. And when I arrive from Istanbul and tell me, hey bro, coming, I have some bags and it's possible to do it, some special hash with water, ice, filtered, and Okay, I go and I go, I see the process the first time and the second time is crazy for you not have any information for anybody.

2:48:25WadeIt's difficult to find something and do crazy things. And in this point, I start and I don't remember my friend from We're pick up these, these bags, but I bring a lot of things and a lot of love from my friend, Alan, from show me this bag for change my life totally in this point.

2:48:54BubblemanWell, you called the year when you said 2003, 2004. That's like it was it was 2004. The first year I went to Barcelona for La Fiera High Life and I sold a lot of bags and not only to individual people, but I sold them to wholesalers who brought them to their stores. So like the year that I brought those bags to Spain, you got turned on to them.

2:49:17BubblemanSo that's pretty awesome. Also, the fact that you mentioned that you were a chef. Dude, when I'm like building out a lab, if I can find a hash maker who was also a chef, I'll pick that person over anyone else every time.

2:49:29WadeYeah, for that, always, I think I find different terms, different textures always with, I just start to do it, the dry process. I do it microplane. I just start to using the... The freezer for, for dry the, the hash. And yes, it's a, it's a large process before the new wave to the, the freeze dryers. And I are even at this point when Here in Spain, anybody using this machine, and I start to thinking in that for in the kitchen, I using the freeze dryer for the freeze, some things, some dishes, I do it with some processed leofilis.

2:50:25WadeAnd I start to thinking in that, and I see in America, start to using that, and I buy one machine for, I want always the perfection in, In the resin and I bring one machine for start to do it. Good work here. And I think here in Spain, I am the first or the second person bring one machine for doing that. And in the first time, a lot of the people of the community tell me this is a shit.

2:50:56WadeThis is a not good machine. You're not using that. But later now, all the people learn about all the process and know it. This process is the better way for dry your hash when you do it, the water hash process.

2:51:15BubblemanSo as a chef and a hash maker, if I came over there and inspected that machine, those hoses would be clean as clean can be, everything on that. The one thing I worry about hash making equipment in particular are the neoprene wraps that go around the stainless steel vessels. I worry about them because I had them in my lab and I was testing them with swabs. And what would happen was if the machine spilled over with the resin and soaked the neoprene, the neoprene becomes fairly difficult to clean.

2:51:46BubblemanSo I just wonder as a chef and as a hash maker, do you have, are you obsessed with things like that? Making sure that there's no microbial content, making sure your hoses, even where they're connected and screwed in, get taken off and inspected.

2:52:00WadePossible disconnect all the sample at all for clean when you using. Possible disconnect all. I have one machine, one electro sound machine for put all the pieces inside cleaning in this way and later the covers. I cleaning really with a alimentary soap and cold water and I clean Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

2:52:51WadeNot old, but a little bit old. I do this work a lot of years and my back is not possible work in the same way in the beginning. It's hard work. I have to do it with one machine, automatic, and make the work easier in a good way, but not lose the quality. And I do it, some details, some special things, and the movements and the program, I do it for...

2:53:19WadeThank you very much. Thank you very much.

2:53:48WadeThank you for your service.

2:53:53BubblemanWe appreciate you.

2:53:55WadeYou're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you for all the people and all the hash makers and all the community and bring bigger all this world and one time is free in all the world and not thinking about the problems, worries for doing this work. Totally.

2:54:13BubblemanWell said. Juliana, did you want to ask a question to Bastigonia?

2:54:18SpeakerI would love it. First introduce Bastigonia. He's in the Patagonia of Chile. That is a place very far away to everything. In Tierra del Fuego, doing a beautiful job. They are a couple working together. And if I'm not wrong, it's already five years washing and doing... One of the best product that you could try from South America. He for sure is in my top three from like hash maker in South America.

2:54:52SpeakerBeautiful, beautiful job. Please Basti, just if you would like to talk about your job and explain your passion, how it started and how it goes at this point.

2:55:11MarkYou might be muted.

2:55:14SpeakerYou're on mute.

2:55:24BubblemanOh, he's on the phone. It's always kind of a little tricky. There you go, Bastogonia. Welcome.

2:55:28SpeakerI'm back. Thank you for the question and for the space. Julie, you hear me? Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay, I started in 2018 after using flower rosing and seed rosing, looking for better results and using the cold to our advantage because I live in a place that is too cold place. Well, well, Can I say, uh, I, my, my technique is, uh, hand paddling. Um, I don't know.

2:56:18SpeakerI, I have my selected cut that, uh, I grow on cuts like, uh, six year ago. Um, I try to select and, and keep in my flavor palette, um, uh, gas, sour, uh, some sweets, some floral.

2:56:43SpeakerBeautiful, beautiful.

2:56:45BubblemanI find that all the best. Oh, you go ahead, Roger.

2:56:49SpeakerI was just curious. So something I heard, maybe you can elaborate, Bastogonia, but is there a special story of where you get your ice? I mean, I think this is like you're in Patagonia in a very cold place. You have access to some materials. I think that others don't, you know, and I think it's very unique to something only you can do. Can you please elaborate? Yes, yes, because the font of water is a very special quality because some of this font are glacial waters and vertians and has some taste quality that we use to our food.

2:57:43SpeakerI don't know how to explain, but well, the water is one of our good factor, the ice and the temperature of the city because the medium of temperature in the year is like eight Celsius degree.

2:58:09SpeakerSo when I hear the context that I get from that, sorry, you also have new marks. But what I hear when I've heard him contextualize to me from other people is it's very similar. It's like pizza in New York, right? Like the water seems to be this magic ingredient that makes what we do in New York so special and anywhere else you go, it just doesn't hit the same.

2:58:28SpeakerI've heard very, very similar things about Vastagonia where it's just one of their secret weapons that they have is the water and the ice that they use and the super cold environment. Yeah, and for sure, I think the hand, Washing is a other factor because I treat with true respect my material. I try to cover every stage of the process. When I do the clone, when I grow, when the flowering stage, when is the harvest.

2:59:12SpeakerI try to cover every stage and put my energy into the better.

2:59:21SpeakerAnd thanks for the space, Roger.

2:59:24BubblemanYeah, man. I want to come make hash with you one day. You can come make hash with me. And you know where we'll go get the ice when we're here? I'll take you on my sled and we'll go to this hole in the glacier. And then we'll go inside the hole in the glacier and we'll collect some of this ice. Wow. From inside the mountain. This is all ice.

2:59:45BubblemanIt's like thousands of years old. Wow.

2:59:49SpeakerLooks like I'll be very upset if that strip happens and you guys leave me out of it. Like I will fly.

2:59:54BubblemanI'm telling you, we will make the plan to go. We got a film making hash in these spectacular places, you know, in a glacier, in an ice cave. Like, yes, that is.

3:00:05Etienne FontanI was about to say you should be making hash in there is what you should be doing because it's the perfect temperature.

3:00:12BubblemanIt is the perfect temperature. In fact, if you find the right place on the glacier, you don't need to bring a bucket. You can just drill a hole into the ice and that will become your bucket. You just lay your bags in there and you gently wash away all of your worries and fears.

3:00:28SpeakerLet me know you're ready, Marcus. I will, me and the team will fly out there. Hopefully, you know, I do have a few cannabis to rest, so hopefully I can get it to Canada. But if I can, I'm coming. There's ways. Yes, Sam. How do you get the hash that you separated with the bag out of the hole in the ice?

3:00:48BubblemanWell, you just pull the bag out.

3:00:50SpeakerOne bag at a time. You just pull the bags out. Oh, that's right. You're keeping everything that's in those bags.

3:00:56BubblemanOh, absolutely. Yeah. No, the opposite and counterintuitively from the way that you have been doing it for oh so many years, Sam sitting there going, what are you digging the hole afterwards to get the hash out? Like, no, no. But we would be remiss if we went to an ice cave and didn't do dry sifting as well. So probably have to make that a dual combination.

3:01:17SpeakerWell, dry sifting absolutely works better in cold temperatures. And it actually works much better with resin, which has been dried and cured for a while. So you're dealing with raisins rather than squishy grapes.

3:01:35BubblemanThat's definitely a good point. And there's definitely something to be said from the perspective of what do you prefer? The caustic monoterpenes that have been freeze dried and preserved and flash frozen and preserved, right? Like literally you're carrying a fridge around with your dabs in them, preserving all of those monoterpenes or quite differently, drying and curing the material so that a lot of those monoterpenes are not present.

3:02:05BubblemanAnd creating a hash that has a very different bouquet, a very different flavor profile. I have an appreciation for both of them. I do see sort of sitting in the middle of the fence that my elder community is much more into the properly cured and dried and non-caustic. And my younger community is like, let's hit dabs that just tear me open. They're just like crazy turf rich.

3:02:29BubblemanI love them both personally. I'd love to hear some different opinions on the panel.

3:02:35SpeakerI was actually hanging out with Mila lately. And people that are a little older than us, it's very interesting. They say how harsh dabs are. Did you say a little older than you, Alice?

3:02:51BubblemanMila's turning 80.

3:02:52SpeakerJust a little, just a little, y'all. Now with people that have been puffing their whole life that are slightly older than us and see them still smoking but at the same time see them not being able to take dabs they cough their asses off when they take dabs and this is totally empirical like there's no science there's no science behind this is just like my opinion and what I've observed the more my friends smoke tobacco the more they cough when they take dabs have you all seen have you all ever realized that Absolutely.

3:03:24SpeakerThis is a good time for me to announce, Alice, I'm officially over a week now, no tobacco. It's been very hard for me. I've become a hash spliff lover. Like it got it in the end, I think hurt my relationship with cannabis. Sorry, Alice. Alice is the one who really out. Alice, Juliana, and really shout out to fucking Comfa in Barcelona, who is the one who showed me how easy it was to roll up a hash with anywhere you go.

3:03:54SpeakerAnd that's when the addiction started. But in this past week, I went and even just a few days with no spliffs. And I went and hit, you know, whatever a prototype that I've been playing with. And it went from I could only take two pulls before coughing. So I went through the whole session and maybe when it was done, gave a little and it was over and And it really, yeah, I would agree with you that when I try to put people on or I see, you know, in New York, a lot of the scene there right now is they're smoking like grabba spliffs.

3:04:29SpeakerSo an even harsher type of fronto leaf tobacco that they're putting into their joints. Absolutely destroying their lungs. And when you're like, hey, why don't you try to take a dab? They cannot handle it. Not even a pull or two. So again, it is very subjective. I don't know what the science here is, but I have noticed that tobacco users in general really struggle to take a dab, even a light one.

3:04:52BubblemanI think it has a lot to do with the radiation, the radioactivity of the tobacco. Radium 226, Google that in regards to the tobacco that you're smoking because most tobacco is grown with it.

3:05:04SpeakerThat's part of it, Marcus, but part of it is when you've learned how to get high with tobacco and hashish or marijuana, you don't recognize it when you smoke The same hashish without cannabis. I've had people smoking my dry sift, which is in the low 80% THC and super terpene rich. I've had them tell me they didn't get high. I mean, they'd take two or three big rips, but yet they would act like they were wacky as shit.

3:05:46SpeakerThey just didn't recognize... They were high without the tobacco cues. And yeah, that's the way it is. Mark Shaldona, I actually wonder if you could speak to this. Isn't there a chemical compound that's released when tobacco and cannabis are combusted together? Or is that just a fake word that I heard?

3:06:08Dr Mark ScialdoneThe chemical profile, the essential oil tobacco couldn't be any more different than that of cannabis. I mean, it's it's chock full of nitrogen compounds and a lot of those just aren't thermally stable at at nail temperature and it just they they degrade and there's a lot of degradation in tobacco combustion that you don't see with cannabis. And, you know, you know, the only from the literature It was a really important study done by Donald Tashkin at UCLA when during the Nixon administration, they were absolutely convinced that, you know, smoking tobacco or I'm sorry, smoking cannabis is going to come up To be just like smoking tobacco and it's going to lead to cancer.

3:07:00Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd they basically tasked Professor Tashkin to do this study that found that people who smoke cannabis had a lower incidence of lung disease than people who didn't smoke anything at all. Thank you for watching.

3:07:29Dr Mark ScialdoneLike people take THC and, you know, certainly in quantities, heroic quantities in the multiple hundreds of milligrams and, you know, you know, a thousand milligrams or whatever. Nicotine, a toxic dose orally is only like about 60 milligrams in the average size human. I mean, so nicotine itself is super toxic. So I don't know. I mean, I guess your original question, Roger, was do they interact in some way?

3:08:06Dr Mark ScialdoneIt would just seem that, you know, again, maybe the prophylactic properties of cannabinoids in general would help lessen the damage caused by all the degraded nitrogen compounds in tobacco and make tobacco safer to use i don't want to say that i mean it's just all speculation but i would think that you know at this point it's difficult to maybe you know again if you're going to get this prescribed by a doctor with the whole reason why Thank you.

3:08:38Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you.

3:08:56Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd vaporize the oils as they exist in the plant and try to do that to so that what matches our olfactory senses when we're walking through the grow is exactly what we feel when we inhale it deep into our lungs because we know that you know again that's the whole essence of the human Thank you for joining us.

3:09:35Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, so important. And that's the great thing about like your devices is that you're delivering that without thermally abusing the profile between the plant and the trichome and your lungs, right?

3:09:52SpeakerYeah. I just wanted to mention to you, Mark, that Dr. Tashkin was a friend of mine through the International Cannabinoid Research Society. And, uh, When he underdid that test for the U.S. government, they expected him to absolutely find that cannabis was more damaging to the lungs than tobacco. But he was honest enough to admit the truth. It's not even close.

3:10:24Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, and the truth is, like when you smoke cannabis, you inhale it and you keep it in your lungs differently than tobacco. And so again, Roger, to go back to your question about does cannabis commingling with Tobacco actually make the tobacco more safe, you know, while that cannabis is lingering in your lungs because you're holding the hit in. I mean, do people do that with tobacco? Do you hold the tobacco hit in?

3:10:52Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't think so, right?

3:10:54SpeakerNo, not really. For example, tobacco does not even absorb into your lungs. It's only taken into the mouth. Right. If you're in if you're traditionally in a place where people have prohibitionist prohibitionism instaurated like Brazil and you have lack of access and you have a little they smoke a lot with tobacco and they hold the smoke as much as they can because it will the lack of oxygen is also going to make them feel extra high and that's a part of people that actually cannot have much access like this is the reality like For sure.

3:11:35Etienne FontanYeah. Dr. Tashkin did say you should smoke it just like a cigarette in the sense that you should just inhale and exhale. You shouldn't hold it in because what happens is oxygen deprivation is what's happening.

3:11:48SpeakerAnd exposition, longer exposition, right, to the chemicals, right? I wanted to like bring up a thing that you were all mentioning before. Marcus was mentioning that was the cured hash versus the fresh hash and the harshness also of terpenes when you're like dabbing that or like smoking that. And we were discussing like a little bit on the harms of tobacco and then how also that affects. But another thing that I see often is friends that dab hash and they wheeze a lot after.

3:12:19SpeakerThat's something I see slightly less than people that like smoke spliffs or even like smoke, smoke. Like I see the wheeze a bunch. Is that, is that, is that related to like the freshness of the, of this monotropines? Does anyone know how to answer that? Well, what I can tell you is that when I used to smoke a lot of cannabis before I moved to the Netherlands, I lived in California and every year, I would dry my weed for two weeks and then cure it for three months.

3:12:53SpeakerBut usually the newest, best ones I wanted to try, I only dried them for two weeks. And I would get laryngitis every single year around harvest time. And it was because I wasn't outgassing and curing the cannabis. Some of those monoterpenes, they're freaking solvents.

3:13:19BubblemanYeah, they are. They can clean your engine block of grease if done in the wrong ratio. For me, there was a chemist on Facebook years ago. And his name was Jim something. Maybe you remember him, Dr. Mark. And he was talking, he had kind of, he was looking at that study, but it was all about BHO and early BHO days and why people were having or early oil days where Thank you for joining us.

3:14:10BubblemanJim Frayer. This was all about the nucleation points in the lungs that cannabis smoke seems to naturally produce based on compounds that exist within it or ratios of compounds that exist within it and how when you smoke cannabis by itself, your lungs are much more protected. And when you make oil with the polarity that leaves those compounds behind, now you need to do other processes to make sure you're not like smoking like Thank you so much.

3:14:54BubblemanTo be smoked into the lungs while tobacco is causing cancer in people's lungs. I think it has more to do with the radioactivity of the chemicals being sprayed on the tobacco than it does anything else. But I did find it interesting that Jim Frayer had his little theory on that, which also involved that paper you guys had just cited.

3:15:18MarkMarcus, sorry to go ahead real quick. If that's true, then do you think that BHO or Mark, I guess, Dr. Mark, do you think that BHO would be a cleaner product than I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. I'm going to ask you a couple

3:15:51BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

3:16:08MarkAnd, you know, the cleanliness of BHO compared to solventless hash. And so just something to think about, because then we talk about the aging process, especially when you're talking about bubble hash in the gland head itself and how much, how much carcinogens that gland head could potentially be. And so again, I think, and when you're talking about bio-organics and you're talking about aging it, it creates mold.

3:16:32MarkThat's why salami molds, you think about money, money molds. A lot of humble growers ran into that problem when they didn't vac seal their money and bury it. And so I'm just wondering, like, what's the propensity, do you think, for cured hash to be able to mold? And what do you think the cleanliness difference is between hydrocarbon and bubble ash?

3:16:51SpeakerIf you dry dry sift and you dry it, It doesn't mold. Believe me.

3:16:59MarkWell, I have a, I have a, my guy that runs our washroom, he had a brand called Pure Headies. He used to run the Villages material. He won, and in a couple of years with Dry Sift, you check him out, he's one of the few people that Cuban would say would match his technique and his level of attention to the detail. And I've seen Dry Sift from him properly dry that has molded.

3:17:19MarkWe've also gotten Dry Sift tested from him that had Thank you for joining us.

3:17:41SpeakerUh, for doing all of this testing, uh, 10 years before anybody did in California.

3:17:48MarkSo I've been doing, I just say that the techniques have aged a lot, you know, within think about 10 years from 2012 to now, the levels of hash. So just because it was done 10 years ago, the techniques, the knowledge weren't, We tested it because we were curious.

3:18:20SpeakerWe did a B2.

3:18:21MarkI tested it too. I have good friends with our friends over at SC Labs, one of the first labs in California here. I've known Alex Dixon for a long time. I've got my product tested consistently. I understand.

3:18:33SpeakerAnd the SC Lab folks are good friends of mine. That said, I had a lab more than a decade before them.

3:18:41BubblemanI will add one thing to what you said is that like Sam makes his dry sift very differently from people like Cuban. Like I photographed all of their hashes. If you photograph Cuban's hash, it's full grapes, meaning the resin has not been dried. He's using fresher material with like the help of something very cold. And then he's clearing and he's sieving out using static.

3:19:03MarkHe's like a jet sieve.

3:19:04BubblemanBut yeah, there's jet seats will get you.

3:19:06MarkThat's like usually uses this. And then to my understanding, like you're getting text for sure. They said that without dry material, one, it lead to a good extraction.

3:19:15BubblemanSo people, again, my buddy, part of it, and it takes months to dry properly. And the membrane, when you say they dried the dry set properly, the membrane of the head can hold moisture. I guarantee you Sam's because I've seen Sam's Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you next time.

3:19:57BubblemanIn the recreational and both obviously medical market, both in the U.S. and in Canada, we have very, very strict regulations in Canada because we're federally regulated, not provincially. So it's a full right across the board.

3:20:11SpeakerAnd I want to mention that I'm very familiar with pests and diseases and mold and funguses on cannabis because... You wrote the book. I wrote the reference book on the subject.

3:20:30BubblemanHe legitimately did like a university style book.

3:20:34MarkLike I said, we all know that knowledge progresses, things change, new studies come out and stuff like that. So a book wrote 20 years ago may not be as relevant now. So I just thought the questions I wanted to ask in theory, I wanted to put out there. Oh, we appreciate your questions. You know, the rec side, like I said, we, we do, we've gotten our stuff under, you know, 350 different compounds, a type of testing a little bit higher, more intensive than like cat three or cat four and gone down that road.

3:20:58MarkSo we do a pretty good job of being aware of, What's out there and stuff and just little things that I've seen, you know, where we put out over 50,000 grams of packaged rosin every month. And so there's a massive data sample size with that. And so there's something I wanted to point out and something that we've seen kind of over the course, as well as like, yeah, we do extract BHO doing around 2,500 pounds of dry material every week.

3:21:23MarkSo we do have a pretty sizable scale sample to pull from.

3:21:28SpeakerVery cool. That's water shift or dry shift?

3:21:32MarkBubble hash and VHO, sir.

3:21:35SpeakerSo it's water hash?

3:21:37MarkYes, sir. Yeah, dry shift just because there's not really a market for it in the rec. Nobody...

3:21:42SpeakerNo, there's a market for it. It's just the cost.

3:21:46MarkWell, not a sustainable market. Again, it's just like, again, understanding your dish rows and your racks and stuff like that. Let's just say you want a wholesale of that $40. Your dish rows, 15%, 12 to 15%. Your sales are 5 to 7.5%. And then all your other regulations, it just becomes... Not something that you can carve out in the California rec and be sustainable. You have to have a broader range of skews with more accessibility to be able to sustain yourself.

3:22:13MarkI'm not saying you can't do it in the trap in your backyard or whatever, but...

3:22:18SpeakerI know for sure that Dry Sift is the gold standard of smoking, for me anyway, and for almost everybody I know. But that said, Waterhash is definitely more economical to produce.

3:22:37MarkI think it could be subjective. It could be your techniques compared to ours and stuff, but it's not our gold standard down here. And I think if you talk to somebody like Jess or maybe at Wook Sauce and stuff, they could also comment. I don't think that that's something that they chase as much and something when I've been around them that they're talking about smoking. So it could be, again, a nice standard up there and stuff.

3:22:57MarkIt's just wanted to put more perspective on what we're seeing out here in California and on the rec especially.

3:23:03BubblemanYeah, I mean, don't get it mixed up. The only people, the only reason people don't seek what Sam has is because they've never tried it. Because I can promise you from someone who's tried everything from the new to the old, Sam is still the gold standard. His hash is from another planet. I promise you, if you can ever try some, It will change your entire outlook and perspective on how could hash, because here's what Sam did.

3:23:30BubblemanNot only did he kind of discover these techniques, he was doing water hash in 1988. He was doing the static sift from I don't know when, it's been 35 plus years for certain. He also lived in all the hash producing, visited and spent time in all the hash producing countries that he was most inspired by, hooked seeds from those countries, Back to California and then Holland to produce and breed skunk number one and all of these other incredible cultivars.

3:23:59BubblemanSo it's like he's definitely like you would enjoy sitting with him. He would very much enjoy smoking your hash. I guarantee it. And you would also very much enjoy smoking his.

3:24:09SpeakerI absolutely love any kind of truly, truly great hash. And even if it's BHO and it's well made and the BHO is cleaned up before they use it for the extraction process and there's none left in it afterwards. I've had BHO that was wonderful. It's not really my cup of tea, but I love anything that is the best of the best of the best. And I always have felt in my life that safety of consumers comes number one.

3:24:49SpeakerYou have, for sure. How do we try some of your craft, Sam?

3:24:56SpeakerYou don't really unless I happen to invite you and I don't travel really much at all anymore. I'm 75 years old and I've got serious health problems so I just don't get around anymore. Before it was easy. All you had to do was go to a High Times Cup in Amsterdam. I won the first one. And then you see me and smoke a bowl with me. And I never sold cannabis ever.

3:25:29SpeakerBut I produced massive, massive, massive amounts.

3:25:34BubblemanThere was three ways to know if Sam was at the Cannabis Cup and you always looked on the ground for all three of them. Wood matches, stainless steel bowls, and people unconscious. Those were the three things that were constantly at his feet. I'm not even joking. I'm not even making a little bit of a joke.

3:25:49Etienne FontanStainless steel screens, not bowls, screens.

3:25:52BubblemanYeah, screens. Sorry, you're right. Stainless steel screens, exactly. Extra fine stainless steel screens. Extra fine ones, exactly.

3:25:58SpeakerBecause I need to stack three of them. Otherwise, as soon as I... Put the match over the dry sift because I would never light it on fire. I would just vaporize it above the metal screens, but it would run through a single one no matter how fine the mesh was. And I got mesh ones that were twice or three times as fine as anybody else I'd ever found.

3:26:29BubblemanYes, you absolutely did, because I custom made mine to be the same ways. And it was how I met Sam. I knew who he was in the industry. I'd seen him at hemp conferences in the mid 90s in Canada, and he was in and around Amsterdam. But it wasn't until I started the bubble bag company. And because my whole search for full melt bubble, which I didn't even know the term of at the time, it was just bubble that liquefied, hash that liquefied.

3:26:55BubblemanI was so desperate to find that since smoking that full melt dry sift, which I didn't realize at the time, but was from Sam and just smoked in the bong with Rob at the Thai food restaurant there in Amsterdam off the dam rack. Never forget that experience. And so when I started my company, I used that slogan that Rob said, because it wasn't like he was some slogan guy.

3:27:17BubblemanHe had told me, he's like, oh yeah, Sam always says, if it don't bubble, it ain't worth the trouble. So I was like, I was sort of paying homage to Sam by putting that under the bubble bags. I didn't realize Sam was still Thank you so much for joining us.

3:27:51BubblemanAnd just told them, listen, like whatever you want me to do, I don't have to use it. I could use it. I'll, you know, whatever is the most respectful. And that's sort of how our friendship began was just through, and that was probably in 99, 2000.

3:28:05SpeakerI just wanted to highlight something super beautiful that actually happened here, like which is listening to Sam speak and Mark and like them discussing like different things and seeing how hash traveled right from art, from traditions, from like super small craft at home and like people mess. I always call like Mark's mass producing, but I mean, he puts a lot of like legal grams in the market nowadays.

3:28:29SpeakerAnd When Mark was saying about mold and mold developing, I kept thinking about like hash curing. Like I've cured a lot of hash before because I come from like temple ball world. Like before full melt style, I got like together with Flynn, like doing like the cold cure and the full melt. Like I was pressing a bunch of hash and like drying a bunch of hash in pizza boxes too.

3:28:52SpeakerAnd something that I always, yeah, stacks and stacks of pizza boxes before, you know, I figured out the freeze dryer with this guy here. But I just wanted to say that there's something that happens when you're curing hash that if something goes wrong, mold wise and humidity wise, it's like food. You can smell it. Like if something goes off, there is a very weird smell that comes up in the curing process that that bouquet effect that Marcus was saying before, like will not happen.

3:29:23SpeakerSo I just wanted to say that I love like watching everyone speak about all their different ways of producing it, but at the same time remind like how much that can be made at home in an artisanal way, like, I don't know, like an auntie cooking or something like that. One of the things you need to realize too is that Really, really well-made dry sift that's completely bone dry and kept airtight.

3:29:48SpeakerIf you take it to a hot, humid country and open the container and press it, it'll turn whitey in 24 hours. It'll go off because it's microscopic.

3:30:03BubblemanNucleate. I would add to what Alice said, and I didn't mention this when Mark was bringing this up, but one of the things that I've been doing since around 2008 is I've been photographing cannabis resin with a microscopic lens. And so I don't necessarily GC and gas chromatograph, but I can tell you something as small as powdery mildew. Here's a photo I took back in 2008. You can see it.

3:30:25BubblemanIt's very easy to see. And so when I show you like resin that was grown by Sam, it's also much the same way. You can really see what's in the resin. And anything that is a contaminant whatsoever, I can show you the difference. This is Sam's. You can see properly cured heads. And then I also have...

3:30:47SpeakerIt's a fucking flex of a date, by the way. I don't know if anybody caught that. November 6, 2010. That's incredible.

3:30:55BubblemanWhere's Cuban's? Because I've got Cuban's resin in here somewhere as well. And his is beautiful, really, really clean here. I'll stop sharing until I can find the image. It's really, the heads look unbelievable, but they haven't been dried at all. They're like fully blown out, you know, proper looking grapes.

3:31:15SpeakerIt's funny that you're mentioning that, like, I, like, coming from Brazil, I had to be mode patrol from the gate, right? Like, I used to smoke a lot of, like, dark, like, black hash that would mode. And then, well, for a long time, I didn't understand I had to throw it away. Now I know, like, if there's mode, there's a no. And we were always, like, looking at hash, different than you, right, Marcus, but, like, with our phones or, like, with the Zoom or whatever we could so we could just, like, see the mode because you can just see it.

3:31:43SpeakerOh, that's a lot of, that's a big brick.

3:31:48BubblemanThat's a kilo. This is a kilo of Afghan, and this is a kilo of Lebanese. Beautiful.

3:31:55SpeakerNice, beautiful red Lebanese.

3:31:58BubblemanOh, I'm telling you.

3:31:59SpeakerHow old is that?

3:32:02BubblemanThose are the ones from 2023, so it's going on a couple years old. It was produced at the start of 2023, and then the other one is probably closer to three years old. The bag it's, you can see the resin has like sort of seeped through the cloth bag.

3:32:18SpeakerMarcus, I have a collection of Lebanese hash bag art designs. I have maybe a hundred of them.

3:32:28BubblemanDude, I've seen your collection. First of all, that's another thing. Like, oh my goodness. Like Sam has the most insane collection of just all things cannabis than you can imagine. Like if you want to touch the oldest cannabis seeds, like in the world, he has them. They're just in his, you know, just like, hey, yeah, check these out. They're like 2,400 years old or whatever. He's got all these like incredible art pieces, all of, uh, you know, the patchwork, the, like the, the playing cards for the drug sniffing dogs.

3:32:55BubblemanOh my God. Holy shit. He's got the craziest collection. I'll tell you. That's another thing that, uh, It is such a nice thing while you're smoking his hash sitting in his living room, just like higher than you've absolutely ever been in your life. Just like tossing the craziest shit at you that you're not even really in the moment having the time to realize how crazy it is what he's just put in your hand.

3:33:22BubblemanSo thank you for that, Sam.

3:33:25SpeakerSome people say their life is dedicated to cannabis. I honestly believe mine was. And probably the person who knows best is my wife and how incredibly tolerant she is.

3:33:41BubblemanOh, my God. Is she ever. You got a special one in that lady for sure. Certain shout out to Diane. This is Cuban. So I photographed this. This is actually a testament. And I can't remember if it was Mike from Exotic Genetics or who it was that I met in Jamaica to get this hash. But they, Cuban was like, you got to get this hash to Bubble Man.

3:34:01BubblemanHe's going to photograph it. And so this hash got brought to Jamaica, which is like, it's so hot and humid in Jamaica. Whoever brought this hash, if you're watching, shout out to you, dude, because even when he when he came to my villa and said, I got Cuban's hash, you know, you're going to photograph it. And I was like, dude, Are you on drugs? Like this is going to be a congealed chunk of, it's going to be like photographing a piece of rosin, even though this was like right maybe before rosin, 2014 or something.

3:34:32BubblemanBut you can see just exceptional quality, non-aged heads. These are much younger heads. You can tell in just the membrane how very few of them have any type of rough raisin-like texture. And so really when I posted this photo, It was second only to posting Sam's photos originally, which I think I posted the first full 99.999% dry sift ash, because let's be honest, before that people didn't know it existed.

3:35:03BubblemanWhen Sam was kind enough to allow me to photograph his resin in that living room that he's sitting in right now, And I posted it. It totally blew hash makers' minds and it really got people thinking in a way. I kind of appreciate it. You know, another gift from Sam that I never really realized you gave the community, Sam, was you holding the static tech back And not releasing it right away.

3:35:28BubblemanThat got so many people thinking and innovating instead of being led. You know, like you can only be led so far. Once you've been led far enough and you've been inspired.

3:35:39SpeakerTo be honest, the real reason I did it was because I thought that I would be able to make an automated machine that could do it. I know. We spoke about this. I was unable to. So when Static Tech finally was released by

3:35:58SpeakerOne of the gentlemen who runs the Dry Sip Facebook page. I was happy for him and I was glad that the whole world had access to it.

3:36:10BubblemanI'll tell you, it inspired a lot of thought, dude. It's from those photos in 07 or 08 till 2020, whatever, when people finally started learning about static tech.

3:36:24SpeakerAlmost immediately, people started having really good bubble hash. In my mind, it wasn't quite as good as the very best dry shift, but it melted. It bubbled.

3:36:37BubblemanIt was great. Well, this is dry sift that's just farmer's grade. This is just a simple single screen. This is what most people are making when they're making dry sift. And if you look at it compared to Cuban's or Sam's hash, you can see that to get the same amount of heads that are in a gram of Cuban's or Sam's dry sift, you would probably need 10 to 15 grams of this dry sift.

3:37:05BubblemanTo make one gram of the heads that I showed previously.

3:37:09SpeakerI used to get a two maximum 3% yield from a dried plant. So if I had a kilo of plant, I could get 20, 25 grams.

3:37:23BubblemanYou were hitting a fine gradient of micron size diameters. You weren't going the breadth of 190 to 25, right?

3:37:33SpeakerYou were just kind of in the... No, because what I found was that with dried material, if it was smaller than about 70 microns, it really didn't have the... It was more like a talcum powder when I I mean, all I had to do was squeeze two fingers together with my fingers.

3:38:09SpeakerI remember you taking a powder, powder dry sift out of your film case and pouring it onto a playing card.

3:38:29BubblemanOn your living room desk table there. And I remember it sitting there for like a minute before I picked it up to scoop some out and it had already hardened and you could actually turn the card upside down and go like this and like none would fall off of it. That shit was insane, dude. I will never forget it as long as I live. Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

3:38:54BubblemanOh my goodness.

3:38:55SpeakerI'm just curious to hear just because, I mean, this is so much game even for me to hear. This has been so informative and enlightening. Sam, when was your first time consuming cannabis? Like what year was that? And what did the cannabis world look like back then? 1965. It was Mexican brick weed. And I also planted my first seed at the end of 1965. I was living in California.

3:39:24SpeakerI went to Hollywood High School. I was a pretty normal kid, except for I didn't like alcohol. Yeah. Wow. That's what we have in common, dude. I mean, me as well. Yeah, never been, you know, I had my first sip of alcohol this year. I think last week somebody passed me a glass of wine. Damn. And what was the hash scene like back then in 1964? What did it look like from your perspective?

3:39:56SpeakerIt was 65 I first smoked. And in 66, I smoked my first hashish, which was red Lebanese, which cost four or five times as much for the same weight as Mexican brickweed. So I was lucky to get it, but it was red Lebanese. And it was, once I smoked that, I says, you know, I like this a lot better than weed. Damn, that's crazy. Yeah, my mom was born in 1964, so that's why I'm like tripping.

3:40:29SpeakerOh, damn, what did the world look like back then for a cannabis user? Thank you, Sam.

3:40:36BubblemanSam, you're very similar to Scott Deppie, in my opinion. Like, Scott and you have a very sort of similar mind in the way you look at, like, both of you did what you did so you could get higher.

3:40:53SpeakerWell, that's absolutely true. What I wanted to do was smoke the cannabis that was the strongest and have the effects and smell and taste that I like the best. And so that's what I've always bred for, looked for, and enjoyed the most. What was the first event you went to? That other cannabis people were there and, you know, there was safety in connecting. The first ones were anti, uh, against the, trying to protest cannabis laws.

3:41:33SpeakerI probably went to a march in LA in 65 and then, uh, But maybe one of the first events I went to was in San Francisco Moscone Center under the ground. And that was like about maybe 71 or something like that. And my first Cannabis Harvest Festival was a year or two after that up in Santa Rosa. Damn, okay. I didn't know Santa Rosa's history goes that far back to connecting people on the scene.

3:42:11SpeakerThat's wild. This was a truly great event where the best growers in Northern California and a few other places. I was from Santa Cruz and I was invited and we would all meet and it was by invite only and the If they didn't know you well, they would blindfold you and take you in a van to the event. And it was in like a beautiful mansion. Like one year it was in the, the, who's the artist that does Snoopy?

3:42:53SpeakerCharlie Brown and Snoopy. Charles Schultz. Charles Schultz. His place up in Sonoma. I mean, Incredible, beautiful place. And the festival was held there. And there was about 50 people who came and they each entered what they thought was the best cannabis. And then a judging was given. But back in those days, to be honest, looks Was almost as important as how strong and good tasting and what the effects were.

3:43:30SpeakerI mean, looks were really important because most of these people were in the cannabis trade. So, you know, they wanted to move their product. That first year of that, that first invite you have, do you remember like what the winning strain was or what the most popular one was at the time? Uh, no, I, I think I remember the second or third one. I, I have, uh, Because people used to make underground art for their cannabis to put in the Ziplocs.

3:44:02SpeakerAnd they would make the equivalent of orange crate art or vegetable crate art. But they were labels, underground labels, none of them above ground legal. And they would stick a small one in an ounce and a Big one in an American pound. And I collected those in the earliest one I have is from the late 60s. But I probably got maybe 250 different ones of those from back in those years.

3:44:41SpeakerYeah, super cool. Yeah, I was wondering, like, what would be the Skittles of back then that maybe was extremely prolific for its time? Well, one of the ones that was really good at the Santa Rosa Harvest Festival was a variety called California Orange, which I crossed with Skunk, and from that got selected Tangy, so it's been around.

3:45:11SpeakerYou're muted, Roger. Thank you for the lore. Yeah, I'm tripping because I never get this much of an insight into that part of the history of how we got here. So super insightful to me. I didn't even know that cannabis could have orange turps until probably 2013 or 14. So it's just crazy to hear.

3:45:30Etienne FontanWe were pumping out the Calio clones back in the Bay Area. We were proliferating that genetic when I was working for Ed Rosenthal. And we were pumping out, you know, 5,000 clones a week back then.

3:45:42SpeakerI know I gave Calio seeds to his partner, Jim. Thanks for that. That's probably where I got them. But who knows because... I would tell California Orange Sheets to anybody that I knew, liked, and trusted.

3:46:09Etienne FontanIt was for a lot of medicinal practitioners early on it was a plant that registered a lot medicinally with people because it smelled familiar right a lot of cannabis smells you know very different and this was a cannabis that smelled as natural and as normal to you know orange right you know so it was something that was an easy entry point i wasn't a fan of growing it it was Not the best high for me.

3:46:39Etienne FontanI enjoy Tangy better than what it was bred into, but a lot of people responded to it, but especially a lot of entry and early people into cannabis, something about those orange turps just sucks them right in because I think it's that familiarity and it's their first familiarity with cannabis that they can relate to something that's normal.

3:47:04BubblemanOne of my best cannabis experiences of walking into a grow, which was in Belenzona with Shanti Baba and Gypsy Nirvana. And he had like an acre under glass of Calio. And it was in the last couple of days, they were all six to seven feet tall and they were being harvested right away. And man, I'll tell you. And I've been in a lot of greenhouses and in a lot of grows.

3:47:25BubblemanThis one was like a religious experience. It was just everything was good. And I remember asking Shanti afterwards, I said, dude, how? How did they grow this weed so perfectly? Like, are you doing this? You have a team of people and he's like, oh man, like I don't hire smokers. He's like, I hire these old rose gardeners. So he's hiring like people who used to grow roses and had never grown cannabis in their life.

3:47:51BubblemanAnd this was their first time ever growing cannabis. And I'm telling you, they knocked it out of the fucking park. Not that I think people that grow lots of cannabis don't grow great cannabis, but anyone that's ever grown Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:48:31BubblemanYou know, you're funding the grow. So just my two cents there.

3:48:38BubblemanWe got another 15 minutes left. We've done almost four hours with the crew. If anyone has anything they want to chime in on or say before we close out, my son is very anxious to try his new fishing rod in the Pacific Ocean out front of the house here. So he's going to go and try and catch himself a little striped perch.

3:48:59Etienne FontanI do want to chime in. We've made some ruffles this week, Wade and I, with our group, the Veterans Action Council. Of course, we're petitioning to get on the DEA to testify because we believe it should be Schedule 5 or descheduled outright. So we made some ripples by getting denied by the judge. But the judge gave us in the footnotes, he went and found the case and found an appeal for us.

3:49:31Etienne FontanSo we're going to appeal next week and try to again get that seat at the table. We know that the DEA was caught colluding with Kevin Sabet. Because Kevin Sabet went and bragged on his social media about having these contacts and meetings and our greatest enemy inadvertently caused himself to get served, um, To where the judge is having a hearing to ask why did the DEA meet with Project Sam and Kevin Sabat?

3:50:07Etienne FontanSo that hearing is happening this week. The big hearing is potentially on December 2nd, but that hearing is only preliminary because the official hearing for rescheduling has been moved to the spring. So we're just trying to get on because a lot of the list is stacked prohibitionists. Who have no standing really on why cannabis should be where they want to put it at schedule three as it is.

3:50:36Etienne FontanBut yeah, so give us, you know, thumbs up, a lot of love. We're just trying to do what we can to... Educate people, educate the DEA so that because we've been at Berkeley Patients Group, we've been doing over the counter for 25 years now. We're one of the oldest dispensaries in North America and in the United States. And we cannot sit idly by and let these people get away with this injustice that's transpiring because what happens in the United States ripples throughout the world.

3:51:12Etienne FontanAnd this It doesn't affect our work that we're doing at the United Nations as well because we're working towards that 2030 goal of removing cannabis from the most dangerous drugs category outright. We'll be working on that. The actual CND is scheduled in March. So we're getting prepared with the other countries through the Cannabis Embassy as well. So just a little activism update. As you'll see, as we were in Washington Post and a few others, and our friend Mike Michael Krowitz was on Big Steve's Grateful Dead show talking about us the other day as well.

3:51:58Etienne FontanSo we're just doing our best to educate people on what we're trying to do as well. Yeah, we're just trying to get the DEA to follow the rule of the law and they don't want to follow the law. So.

3:52:11BubblemanThat's my update. Of all the groups of people to have to deal with, thank you for dealing with them because I want fucking nothing to do with them.

3:52:20SpeakerNot only that, but they usually ignore whatever the courts say and the judges say. So it's pretty sad.

3:52:28Etienne FontanWell, that's very interesting, Sam, because this particular judge, Judge Mulroney II, was actually pissed on by the DEA when he was asked in 2017 to rule on the drug war. And he came out with a scathing attack on the DEA and to the point where you're exactly right. The DEA said, you know what? You're not in this hearing and toss all of his words and him out to where a whole bunch of other federal judges called out the DAs like that's fucked up what you did.

3:53:01Etienne FontanSo now he is their administrative law judge and is now in charge of this. So they're actually going to be deciding on if the DEA has standing as well after meeting with Project SAM, which is inevitable, but it's just interesting legal twists that are happening due to shenanigans.

3:53:22SpeakerYeah, well, the truth of it is, of course, that the DEA being able to decide whether the law is, you know, if they're accountable to the law or not is kind of like what the Supreme Court has done with the Trump saying that he's immune from being prosecuted. I mean, it just doesn't make any logical sense at all.

3:53:51Etienne FontanAnd that's the thing is that just so people are aware, this is an administrative process. We've never lived through this. It can't be derailed by the DEA. The NIH and everybody else has already signed off on this. So it's pretty much an already done deal. But there's two court cases also that could slow the process down because everybody wanted it to happen already. We were hoping to have these hearings on December 2nd.

3:54:16Etienne FontanBut in my talks with the White House and the State Department, they told us that the DEA law judge is gonna be reading through the 40,000 plus comments specifically, and then they're gonna have also the testimony of these 25 individuals who have been selected. We applied beforehand, we're not selected, and then we wrote the law judge directly asking to be number 26 We were denied, but he gave us the pathway through appeal.

3:54:50Etienne FontanSo we're going to go through the appellate court next week in Washington, D.C. and thread that needle and then see what the judge has to say potentially on the second, because we definitely want to have Michael Krawitz be testifying if that's possible, whenever that's possible. So Cross your fingers. If you're a religious person, say your prayers. Do what you can for us. We're going to try to do our best.

3:55:17Etienne FontanAnd I thank you Wade and all of the other veterans at the Veterans Action Council for their dedication to helping us move this football forward. Because, yeah, we inadvertently found ourselves on the international stage again. You know, we do this while it markets because you and others don't want to, but because we have to and we can and we're going to use our privilege to actually flip it and flip it here and then we'll flip it at the UN by 2030.

3:55:46Etienne FontanAnd so nobody will be executed Thank you for watching.

3:56:07Etienne FontanThat we inadvertently helped kick off and instigate. And it's going to be an interesting ride. So as everybody wants an immediate, oh, it should be done. He said he was going to make it legal. It's a process. It's a long process. So strap in, take your time. It's not going to be rushed. But there's going to be something shiny at the end. So stay tuned.

3:56:30SpeakerRemember, remember, too, that we're a small percent of the world's population and the work is not really done until everybody. Everywhere in every country can grow cannabis for any reason.

3:56:46Etienne FontanYeah, but we are recognized as a culture. And because cultures are recognized at the United Nations, we as a cannabis culture and as a subset of society are recognized. And we are worldwide. And that's why we've come together. It's the Cannabis Embassy to work together worldwide to not just sit and work in our individual countries. If we can change it at the international level, then everybody gets the opportunity.

3:57:14Etienne FontanEverybody stops getting harassed going crossing their borders or traveling with their medicine, which is currently happening. So. Still work to be done. If anybody wants to, check out CannabisEmbassy.org for the international work that we're doing. It's going to be a long road. We're all volunteers, but we're going to get there.

3:57:34BubblemanLet's put that link in the description every week, Etienne. What the hell? Why aren't we doing that? I will do so. In the description. Absolutely. And then I also want to shout out, listen, making it so people don't go to prison and particularly don't get killed. for cannabis is like it's got to be at least tied for you know access to patients and you know what i mean like those two things are kind of like the the pillars of our community on either side you have medical patients and their need to have access and then you have people who have been caught up by laws Thank you for joining us.

3:58:31BubblemanWell, for really for, you know, for being a habitual florist, once again, to quote Todd McCormick. So I would love to hear from Wade because we haven't heard from Wade much. He was enjoying his breakfast. I feel like he's got some stuff to say now. And what better way to sort of sort of leave us on this beautiful Sunday afternoon with this amazing group of people than than Wade laughter himself.

3:58:57SpeakerOh, boy. Well, thank you, Marcus. Yeah, it's been a fascinating morning.

3:59:06SpeakerI got to say that in terms of checking in personally, it's been a rough week. I got to say the...

3:59:22SpeakerThe exercise, if you will, for me these days is living in this body, which is a somewhat uncomfortable experience most of the time. And it's been brought home to me quite vividly as a result of a consultation and now two treatments at the University of California, Davis Pain Clinic.

3:59:56SpeakerThe oncology team there hooked me up with the folks at the pain clinic. And I went down there and got a diagnosis and went through the process of insurance company improving the procedure and blah, blah, blah. But the procedure involves three steps, actually. The first two steps are a series of injections. In my back where the primary source of my pain originates. In my lower back on the right side.

4:00:31SpeakerIt's a long story, but yeah, it's a 24-7 presence in the body. And what was fascinating to me about the treatments I got at the pain clinic, they use a needle to inject a certain amount of lidocaine into the facets On the limbs, if you will, I think they're called, well, it doesn't matter, the little limbs that are on each of the vertebrae, they inject right into that area of the bone, lidocaine, just like they use in dental work.

4:01:06SpeakerAnd if you've had lidocaine injected into your mouth for dental work, it's a pretty effective numbing drug, but it only lasts a couple of hours. And so my experience at the pain clinic, especially this last time,

4:01:26SpeakerWas for a couple of hours.

4:01:30SpeakerThe pain went away.

4:01:33SpeakerAnd it's amazing what a relief it is when it goes away. And what a challenge it is when it comes back.

4:01:51SpeakerAnd the difference in that quality of life experience is pretty vivid. And I have to shout out the role that cannabis plays in mitigating this whole process that I go through each day. And I feel like it's important for me to speak up

4:02:25SpeakerBecause I'm not the only person who needs cannabis. I really appreciated, Marcus, that you pointed out that there's really two pillars in our community. And one of them is the potential therapeutic benefits of this plant and the chemistry that she provides us.

4:02:52SpeakerAnd I feel like there's a lot of education that needs to happen. One of the things that I observe about Hash Church is this is the cool kids in the cannabis scene, right? We all, you can start with Sam or Bubble Man or any one of the other regulars in this group that shows up here on Sunday mornings who are an inspiration for heroic consumption of cannabis.

4:03:24SpeakerAnd I, as a patient, I feel like I need to point out that most of the people that you're providing your products and your beautiful work to heroic doses may not be appropriate. And especially heroic doses of extremely high THC plant material, which, again, I love the THC high. I love how it feels. I so appreciate pointing out the quality and the importance. I want to remind all of us and anyone who's listening that most of the people

4:04:33SpeakerOut there who are new to cannabis really need to understand the importance of a very simple concept about going slow and going low on the dose. It's an exciting and fun thing to do a heroic hit on a bong of, you know, and It's funny to have somebody keel over and break off the arm of a big, beautiful glass piece. And, you know, these are all wonderful stories.

4:05:05SpeakerBut I really want to come back or ask all of you to come back to the hard reality.

4:05:16SpeakerListen to me.

4:05:21SpeakerThe hard reality of... Not just persons like myself, I've lived a good life and I plan on being around for a while longer.

4:05:32SpeakerAnd I'm working at sorting out how to make sure I have a good quality of life. I'll popcorn back to the pain clinic for a second. The first two sessions, yeah, the lidocaine wears off by the time I get home, but The third session involves a procedure called ablation. And to make a long story short, if you're into technology, you might dig this. They have a tool that's about the size of a needle that they slide under my skin and into the facets of the vertebrae in my lower back.

4:06:14SpeakerAnd then they turn on a little heating element in the tip of it. Heated up to 80 degrees centigrade. And what it does is gently cook the nerve. I love technology and science and the things medicine is trying to do for us that are so invasive. I mean, really think about that. An heating element under my skin, between the facets of my vertebrae, and they cook the nerve.

4:06:44SpeakerBut as a result of that procedure, sometime within a few weeks to a month or two, that experience of the pain being gone, oh boy, it becomes, if the procedure works, the pain is gone for months, even up to a year.

4:07:14SpeakerSo deep gratitude for what sounds like it is. It's kind of a scary, weird thing, but that might help Wade feel better. But what's true is out there in the world, every community that you live in, any one of you on this panel, or anyone who's listening on YouTube, watching what we're doing here today, there are people in your community who need this plant. And this is why The Veterans Action Council and other groups are fighting for the things that Etienne was just describing and the goal that Sam has so beautifully described so many times here on Hash Church, that any person anywhere should have access for whatever their need is.

4:08:05SpeakerAnd it's a long-winded way of saying, don't forget the people who need cannabis. And not many of them need the kind of heroic doses that we glorify here in our conversations. They need repeatable, consistent doses of something that works for them. And ideally, it would come at little or no cost. And I feel like there's enough room in the cannabis space for compassion work. And all it requires is your willingness to look around, to ask.

4:08:48SpeakerThere's people who are looking for help.

4:08:54SpeakerSo I'll stop there. I very much appreciate the... The beauty, the passion, and the excellent expertise that is described here and celebrated.

4:09:17SpeakerThank you. Thank you, Marcus, for the opportunity. I would close on this. Monica put up a GoFundMe thing a while back. I'm not really even sure where that's at. It's about having funds to give her a break. We mentioned earlier good partners and Monica wants me to stop. She's wonderful.

4:09:43BubblemanWe love you, Wade. We love you, Monica. We're putting up your GoFundMe right now. I always want to hear from you, Wade. I always appreciate it. It's always such an important perspective that's really real. And obviously, being someone that cares for you, it's okay for me to feel some of your pain and acknowledge that. That's what you're going through. And it makes me think differently about Western medicine.

4:10:11BubblemanAnd I'm thinking, yeah, that's crazy Frankenstein shit. But if that's helping Wade, I'm behind it. Like I'm here for it, you know, the idea, and listen, I've never probably been in the pain that you're in, but I've dealt with my own chronic pain in my past and having headaches for every day for like two and a half years and not having a headache for one hour one time after I tried hot yoga, like legitimately had me almost bursting into tears and crying because it was such a relief.

4:10:39BubblemanTo release that for the first time in so long. So I'm here for you, Wade. Anything we can do for you, we're here to do on Hash Church. We just love that you come and share with us. And thank you, Monica, for letting Wade share. And we hope it doesn't... I hope that it gives him some energy and gives him some positivity and he can see that there's a whole community of people who are still very, very much inspired by him and his work and what he's done.

4:11:06BubblemanAnd to me, it's the most important influence that we have in Hash Church is Wade Laughter. So he is the gold bar. Thank you so much for joining us.

4:11:36BubblemanAn amazing opportunity. I feel bad that Mauricio, we didn't get to talk to you on this experience, but I'm going to invite you back if you want to come back next week and anyone else that's on the panel that's on today, we'll have an open invitation to next week as well so we can get into it a little deeper. But I feel like what Wade said was the perfect way to end church.

4:12:16BubblemanOff camera. And thanks for bringing your whole crew of amazing hash makers. Ice Gourmet, Frosty, you know, Mauricio Giuliano, Alice and Wook Sauce, Bastigonia and Mark Hammond. Totally appreciate you guys. Totally appreciate everything you brought to the table today. If there's anything that you want to finish off and say with Roger, I'll give that to you. And of course, thank Dr. Mark and Skunkman Sam and Etienne Fontaine.

4:12:43BubblemanAs well as Wade for coming in. Colin, who's now gone. I'll leave it to you to do our outro for us, Roger.

4:12:51SpeakerThank you, Bowman. Wow, that was so heavy. I mean, God, there's so much to address here. But first, I want to start with Wade. Thank you. I think that. Many of us here, this new generation, have the privilege of doing what we do for love and community. And that community is typically focused on sharing positive experiences together. I think we forget that we're all here because cannabis has been medicine for so many people.

4:13:20SpeakerAnd while we focus a lot on that consistent, repeatable experience for people and making sure that we can ease them into this, I think it's a very important reminder that I can't say that being emotional, but the work we do affects people. And I'm very grateful to hear your words. And I think a lot of people in the room, this is a big reminder that there's a lot more work to do and Maybe there's a lot more focus to be had on places that we don't put as much of that focus today.

4:13:48SpeakerSo thank you for those words. I think this room will act on what you said, and we definitely will be promoting your GoFundMe as well. To Sam, to Etienne, to Mark, to the old generation that is fighting and protecting and guiding We appreciate you endlessly. We all exist here today. We're feeding our families. We're having the time of our lives. I am no longer afraid of spending a portion of my life in jail for this plant.

4:14:17SpeakerAnd that's because of the road you guys have paved for us. And Marcus, I couldn't be more grateful that you coughed in my face that day, because if we didn't go through that little thing. I don't think I would be able to share this, what to me is a deeply connecting moment here. It's weird that this is content. This could have just as easily have never been shown to the public and have had a deep impact on my career moving forward.

4:14:42SpeakerSo thank you for letting me be in this room. Thank you to the old school and to the new school. It seems like we have a lot to carry on our backs to honor the past. So I appreciate you all. Thank you so much, Hash Church, and thank you to the chat for hanging in with us. We appreciate it.

4:14:57BubblemanAwesome, dude. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next week. Peace out.

4:15:01SpeakerMuch love the way.

4:15:03BubblemanYes.

4:15:04SpeakerLove the way.