Press Club, Wolf Mountain Coffee, and Endocannabinoid Nutrition

0:00BubblemanBut we're waiting. Let's see if it's going to give us the love. I do not see it. Come on, come on, come on. Let's go live. There I am. There I am. All right. Sorry, there's a delay sometimes where I don't know if it's going to go live and I'm going to show up on the chat. But there I am. And there all you are. Bingo Lombardi.

0:28BubblemanHolding it down in the chat, we got John Maddox, obviously. OG Brick 420, just bought a membership for five months, I believe, or maybe it's that he's been a member for five months. I don't know. I'm all confused. Thank you, because I am hella grateful, Cannabis Kawai. I am hella grateful. Shout out to Michael Franti for the t-shirt. I got this at one of his last concerts.

0:52BubblemanSo let me start with Welcoming everyone to this beautiful show on Hash Church today. I'm going to have to quickly do a couple of things here. There we go. I had to find that. So I'm going to open this up real quick. And I guess I got to close this because I hadn't opened it first. So I'm going to open it again. And I'm going to give a big shout out to my dear friend Soma, who is, I guess he's a little bit sick right now.

1:24BubblemanNot feeling too good. So from the Hash Church family, dear Soma, from the heart of the Hash Church community, we are sending you a wave of love and healing energy all the way to Amsterdam. Your passion and your spirit have touched so many of us over the years and we hold you close in our heart and in our thoughts as you navigate this challenging time. May you feel the warmth of our collective embrace, lifting you up and bringing comfort, rest, heal, and know that you are surrounded by a family that cherishes you deeply.

1:59BubblemanWishing you strength and recovery, dear friend, with all our love from the Hash Church community. I'm not sure how serious it is. I did see that he was in the hospital and that he had missed some of his seizure medications. So we're sending our love out to Soma. First and foremost today, that is the message I wanted to send before I said anything else. And hopefully when Soma's better, when, not if, he'll come on to Hash Church and we'll talk.

2:26BubblemanI feel so blessed that I got to go visit him in Amsterdam recently when I went back for Dave's Celebration of Life. And so shout out to Soma. You are loved, my friend. You are loved. In the meantime, let us get... To our new sponsors because they also support us and we have a new sponsor. I want to give a big shout out to The Press Club.

2:52BubblemanTrusted by top hash makers from around the world since 2016, The Press Club is your one-stop shop for award-winning solventless gear. From press bags to wash bags to presses to vessels, you'll find everything you need from wash to press. We're big fans of the Press Club and what they're doing for the community, so we're excited to have them on board as an official sponsor for Hash Church.

3:13BubblemanWe got made in the USA, patented pink stitches, zero blowout guarantee. That's a pretty good guarantee. Not sure I would give that one, but that is, that's pretty awesome. Small family owned business, free expedited shipping on any orders over $75. International shipping available as well. And you can visit them at www.thepressclub.co. And if you use the code HASHCHURCH, all capitals, they're going to take 10% off your purchase.

3:43BubblemanSo big shout out to them. Big shout out to Puffco. Big thanks to Puffco for sponsoring Hash Church once again. Puffco has revolutionized cannabis culture, normalizing extracts with their incredible portable devices like the Puffco Peak Pro, the Pivot, and the Proxy. These amazing little units deliver top tier performance and style, making them favorites in our community. Puffco's unwavering support for all things cannabis keeps us lit and united.

4:10BubblemanCheck them out at Puffco's Got Your Back. www.puffco.com and you can find them on Instagram at Puffco. Ready to take your grow to the next level? Grandmaster LED is bringing the heat with cutting edge lighting solutions designed for growers who demand the best. Whether you're battling pests or chasing perfect yields, we've got your covered with the latest innovation, the UVC Tarantula Predator, the ultimate IPM bug light.

4:36BubblemanThis bad boy harnesses the power of UVC technology to zap mites, thrips, aphids and more. Keeping your garden pristine without chemicals or hassle. Pair it with a Grandmaster LED top tier grow light. And you've got a setup that's unbeatable for potency, flavor, and peace of mind. Waterproof, daisy chainable, and built to last. Tarantula Predator is your new secret weapon. Tune into Hash Church to hear the pros rave about Grandmaster LEDs and grab yours at grandmasterleds.com.

5:02BubblemanUse the code HASHCHURCH10 at checkout for an exclusive discount. Light up your grow the Grandmaster way because your plants deserve the best. Let's be honest. They do deserve the best. And I also want to give myself a shout out because my goodness, I should shout myself out as well. Let me just find the way. We're going to shout out the bubble bags.

5:33BubblemanLet's see where we are, bubble bags. Looks like you've been blown out. Bubble bags stand out as a premier choice for water hash extraction, and it's no surprise why. They're the original innovators who set the standard in quality and performance. Crafted with durability in mind, these bags come out with a lifetime warranty, ensuring you're covered for years of consistent use. The team behind bubble bags takes pride in their pioneering legacy, backing every product with an unwavering confidence and a commitment to excellence, making us the trusted go-to for enthusiasts and professionals alike seeking top-tier hash extraction results.

6:07Bubblemanwww.bubblebag.com. Hashchurch10 will give you the discount code. And I think that's it for now. I think that's it for now. So let's get to the show. Let's get to the show. I got someone coming in. I don't know who it is.

6:32BubblemanOh, shit, brother. Look at that. Now that's how you come into Hashchurch right there. That is how you come into Hash Church on time and on the ball. Very cool. Not quite. You'll take a bit. You'll get your audio set up and you'll come in. It'll be fucking great. Happy to have you here, brother. Just see what I got to do this good morning on Hash Church.

7:02BubblemanNo, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Man, I got a lot of stuff going on. Holy Christ. Brett Gardner, supposed to get Patrick. We got a whole bunch of people. M. Muhammad, Canicraft, Mark. There we go. Can you hear me, brother? You're still having a hard time. I can't hear you.

7:26SpeakerCan you hear me?

7:27BubblemanYeah, now I can. How are you doing?

7:29SpeakerGood. I'm not that familiar with this stuff, so I just kind of press some buttons and I see my face, I see yours, so.

7:34BubblemanDude, you crushed it, bro. You absolutely crushed it. Looking good, too. Not gonna lie. I like that face.

7:42SpeakerWell, I appreciate that.

7:45BubblemanYeah, man. Well, welcome to Hash Church. It's good to have you.

7:47SpeakerThanks for having me, man. I appreciate it.

7:50BubblemanAbsolutely. We're doing the good things out there, you know. It's hard for us on Hash Church because... You know, I want to have, there's so many great people I want to have on Hash Church. Hash Church was always about, you know, expanding the community. It was never supposed to be about like, you know, having a place on Hash Church. It's like everyone's welcome on Hash Church, you know, and come and share what they're doing in a different part of the world.

8:15BubblemanTalk about You know, this whole journey that really a lot of us are on together, you know, especially, especially the community. I mean, we have a very unique community because our community very much the way there's this medical and recreational, you have community and industry. And they're two very different things. And so, you know, obviously, in my opinion, the the industry Has a little bit less soul.

8:43BubblemanIt has a little bit less compassion and empathy. And the community is all soul and all empathy and all compassion. Or at least I like to pretend that it is. Of course, we have some parasites that get in. But as we know from regenerative organic farming, that even bugs have their place in growing good cannabis. So we just got to figure out how to get those parasites On point, share them the right information.

9:13BubblemanIt's amazing. I take hits on the nonstop, endless hits. My most recent one, because I supported my friends from Canada, really good friends. My friend Kat has worked there for a super long time. My buddy Neil used to grow with their nutrients and grew beautiful cannabis that I just couldn't really turn my back on at the same time. I'm a much more into living soil, regenerative, organic, Someone absolutely got upset with me that I promoted canna in any way, shape, or form.

9:44BubblemanAnd I kind of said, you know, as I get older, I try not to just choose. I mean, listen, I had a solvent extract episode three months ago. I don't do solvent extracts. But what I do do and what I do recognize is that the... Thank you for watching.

10:24BubblemanThank you so much for joining us today.

10:53SpeakerA lot of different places. You're going to always end up with the judgment side of things. So people are going to come in and whether they like you or whether they don't like you, they're going to they're allowed to place their opinion. So everybody can kind of say whatever they want. And anybody who's confident in their journey don't have to be too affected by it. And if you're spending too much time digging into somebody's somebody else's comment, And worrying about it, it's affecting your life, then maybe that's a sign that you just have more work to do.

11:29SpeakerAnd the ego is still a big part of it because ultimately, not that there's no, nobody's going to get rid of their ego. That's just part of being human. You have it while you're here. You can recognize it and separate yourself from it at times so you don't have to get sucked into The drama that the ego can create. So, you know, I think it's great. I think it's awesome that there's a place for anybody to share any information they want.

11:54SpeakerAnd if people are still that immature in their evolution of their relationship to their ego, that they have to basically put other people down to try and Make them seem better or something, then, you know, then they're just on that journey and we wish them well. And hopefully they have realizations that help them grow beyond that. So.

12:19BubblemanAbsolutely. I've been on that journey myself. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Absolutely have been on that journey. There's no doubt about it. And yeah, it is what it is, you know, I guess, and I really only had this sort of epiphany very recently, but the epiphany was, The less things that I have opinions about, the less angst and upset and disturbed energy I have in my soul and in my body.

12:49BubblemanAnd so I've been practicing that quite a bit lately, just kind of like, you know what, do I need to die on this hill? Is this the hill that I need to die on? Because I'm, you know, obviously a very opinionated person. I've had opinions about all sorts of things over the years. But as I kind of Get a little older and get a little wiser. And of course, very grateful.

13:09BubblemanUm, yeah, I just, uh, I'm a little bit more easygoing and I can, I can see things in a different light. And I guess that's one of the beautiful things of getting a little older.

13:20SpeakerYeah. You know, you gotta, I think what we have to do as we get older is, is recognize that we get triggered and then And that triggered, you can, if you can acknowledge that you've been triggered, ideally, the soul can step back and not allow action to continue from that point. And then ask the self, what's the best action forward to create the ultimately the best outcome, which, you know, as far as I'm concerned, is positive vibes and good Good feelings.

13:58SpeakerAnd so, you know, what do we want to promote while we're sharing ourselves and our perspectives on these platforms in this virtual world? To me, I feel like we need to be somehow helping people understand how to tune into those good vibes. And so, you know, All we can do is is not participate in that which creates negativity and participate in that which feels good. And so if you're doing that, I feel like, you know, we're talking about this is church.

14:37SpeakerThis isn't this isn't a place for judgment. This is a place to share our beliefs in our soul. And those of us who have endeavored deeply into The realms of this journey with this plant have a lot of spiritual connections to it, even if you don't realize them, because sometimes the plant is actually taking you on a journey you're not necessarily in control of. If you can start to recognize the power in the plant, I think you can symbiotically work with that energy and kind of like create something better than either one without the other.

15:16SpeakerSo, humans and ganja, you know, we manifest worlds that don't exist unless both people, both entities are involved. And so, you know, we try to...

15:30Collin PalmerYou know you guys are touching on some stuff and hey guys nice to see you guys today and um late my man um dealing with with young kiddos today um i uh i hosted a panel yesterday with dutch actually i brought dutch blooms and fang and a bunch of other breeders out to new york and we had new york small pharma um hosted an event um That was the Farmers Forum in a Farmers Craft Cup, which is really cool out in New York.

15:59Collin PalmerAnd, you know, we had all, you know, we had generational difference in terms of age and then perspective differences in terms of how you approach breeding, right? And everyone had a different perspective as to you know we talked we used you know the abstract analogy of color where one gentleman was saying you know i i really want to bring these older colors to life you know and i really think it's important to reinstill these older these older you know colors back into the modern contemporary world and then fang jumped in he was like yeah it's really cool but What if we looked at it like we're taking all these colors and taking blue and making it like neon and adding polka dots to it and texture and making it silky.

16:45Collin PalmerAnd I thought it was really interesting because everyone had a very different perspective. But they all could agree that moving the idea of breeding forward through selection and good selection and opening up population and doing open pollination, because I asked them the questions about how they pollinated and how they selected, it was a lot of... It was a lot of different perspectives all kind of converging and agreeing on that open pollination is really a great thing to do.

17:19Collin PalmerAnd there was a lot of experience on that panel. You know, Dutch Blooms talked a lot about his library and how it's great to be able to clean up some of these older genetics and recirculate them. And someone else felt like it's not great to be having everyone be growing the same things. But the conversion point for me For everyone had different ideas but the concept of pollination was it's better to open pollinate than to select one single female and then And Fang jumped in again and said, hey, I'd like to go wide, but then I'd like to be really intentional.

17:56Collin PalmerSo, you know, again, there was a lot of ego, but a lot of really, I mean that in a really very experienced way of saying that. So there's a lot of experience on the panel, but they all agreed on things that I thought were, you know, Thank you for joining us.

18:31Collin PalmerYou know, it was a really great, it was a really great panel to hear Josh and Fang speak about, you know, the tenor in the industry. Fang talked a lot about his Mendo breath and the, you know, his Gage Green and the things that they did to get to that. And there was a lot of, it was really interesting. It was, you know, we had a lot of interesting perspectives.

18:53Collin PalmerAnd I would think, I see Ryan jumping in. Ryan would have really appreciated the conversation because it went in a lot of different directions. But it was really cool to see everyone kind of agree that we need to kind of open up the population a bit more and keep it alive rather than narrow it down. So it's very much the spirit of the conversation where let the plant do the work, you know?

19:20SpeakerGo back in. Again, like this is, we talked about earlier, just like how, what lens you put on and choose to look through in order to, I don't know, advance your own evolution.

19:37SpeakerTo say one thing is right and one thing is wrong is, I don't know if that's necessarily necessary. There are benefits to both opening up populations through open pollination There's a bunch of different ways to do open pollination with selection still involved. And there's also a whole lot of value. If you are a breeder, you have to narrow things if you want to be trying to Create the things that the markets are asking for or this uniformity idea that comes with industry, capitalism, money making in product.

20:14SpeakerYeah, I don't buy into any of that side of it anymore just because it certainly is something humans are capable of doing. We can work in a breeding way to get something into a point where it works really well this way or that. You know, but I think. Like the lens that you look through, it's it's open pollination is good inbreeding is good. You know. If it all depends on the outcome that you're looking for and everybody has their own personal input in their process.

20:52SpeakerAnd so that personal input is going to play a large role in the outcome. And, and, you know, if, if you're looking to grow from seed in field, you know, you want to pay attention to one thing, but if you're looking to grow from clone, There's a lot less factors to deal with. You just have to explore and find that one which you would like to do.

21:17SpeakerI think the capitalist market is most friendly to clone growing because of what it wants. It wants uniformity. It wants all these things that I'm not that interested in. And so if I advise people in the industry or in the market standpoint to say, you know, do your pheno hunting and make your clones. Sure.

21:41BubblemanCan you give us a little introduction to you and kind of your scene and Green Source Gardens? Give us a little kind of Hash Church, you know, breakdown on, you know, a little bit of who you are, what you've been doing, where you're at with it, because I think that would be helpful for the Hash Church audience.

22:00SpeakerYeah. You know, my wife and I and the family, we endeavored in

22:12SpeakerWe've been out of it for a couple of years now. And we kind of went at it with our own slant, which was really important to us, which was this. We're not trying to hold this up. We're trying to essentially do this all from seed and in natural cycles and without lights, without inputs, nutrients, without products from a store. This is really an endeavor of connection to the environment and connection to the climate.

22:52SpeakerAnd so it was really important for us to be really kind of adamant and stubborn around how we choose to play. And, you know, it made things really hard at times, but it also like by sticking to that, it opened up this world of information that we were able to gather from for until, I mean, it will go on forever at this point. So, you know, we were up, we had

23:23SpeakerWe figured out we got some money from a community member who was willing to loan us on a really high interest rate. And we knew we couldn't live at the spot that we're at right now, which we came back to after things didn't work. We just had to get a place that would meet all the requirements for the zonings and all that in order to play in the rec game.

23:43SpeakerAnd so we did. And we borrowed a lot of money and high interest rate. And we went there and we played the game for We had eight seasons in the legal rec market in Oregon until we finally decided this wasn't ever going to pan out. We were never going to pay off our mortgage. It was getting worse and worse. And so we just had to pull the ripcord and bail so that we could recover whatever we could from the situation and move on without losing and losing and losing just based on the market dynamics.

24:14SpeakerAnd that's really what it was and also the immaturity of the market. But in that process you know we're since we were growing from seed uh we were breeding and and and so it just required a lot of like looking into the scientific aspects of of breeding and and what that means at least from a selective traditional breeding not like this modern uh stuff that uh crisper stuff and and all that but more just selections and also just understanding inbred lines and and And the truth is, is like you, you go on this journey to understand inbred lines, polyhybrids, F1s.

24:54SpeakerAnd, you know, first of all, you realize that the cannabis community is a little behind on understanding kind of the truth of how to even call your variety, whatever it is. I mean, um,

25:10SpeakerBut regardless, we ended up, I ended up seeing the value in the F1 because I was growing from seed and fields. And so I really explored working on inbred lines so I could make F1. So I just did multi-generation processes with filial generation breeding until things were, Steve, Brett Maverick, Brian Schroeder, Brownie Mary, Cannabrand Solutions Team, Carla, Cheryl T Rose, Chip, Chris Bennett. Steve, Brett Maverick, Brian Schroeder, Brownie Mary, Cannabrand Solutions Team, Carla, Cheryl T Rose, Chip, Chris Bennett.

26:01SpeakerAaron Ward, M.D. : amount of pollen being allowed basically one male one female to increase uniformity in the offspring, but if you do that with the. Aaron Ward, M.D. : Two inbred lines that are actually pretty true breeding, you do get a uniform outcome F1 generation. And at its finest, which we see in agriculture all over, if you open up a catalog and want to buy some seeds, so much of it is F1 because that is what is going to appease or please the farmers or the gardeners the most because you get the vigor of the heterozygosity and you get the uniformity.

26:49SpeakerAnd so You know, and also you kind of like from a seed making standpoint, F1 is really attractive because people can't really breed as reliable with the F1. It's not the reliable breeding stock that you would want to utilize. And so it works for a seed maker, too, because Then the seed maker can hold the inbred lines and make the F1s and release the F1s. And people can't recreate the same thing because they're using F1s as breeding.

27:19SpeakerAnd that kind of ruins the outcome of the uniformity. If the uniformity is what you're looking for, then F1 is definitely the way to go. But somehow the cannabis community oftentimes likes to think that And F1 is the super mixed up and there's all kinds of outcomes. And, you know, done right, it's not the case. If you make F1s with polyhybrids, which is actually not an F1, you're just making polyhybrids.

27:50SpeakerSo if you're just crossing something to a cool clone cut you got, And calling it an F1, you're actually making a really, you know, multi-fino expressing offspring, which is fine. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that if you're going to then make selections to clone again. But if you're running things from seed in the field, you just have to be conscious of how to create that uniformity in seed form.

28:15SpeakerAnd, you know, you can have uniform inbred lines, but it's not the obvious choice because if you run inbred lines long enough, you start to recognize that There is a little less something to them. They can breed better offspring than they are themselves if it's done right. Usually the numbers tend to go down with the filial generations and there is this inbred line or inbred depression. And so just being aware of all these things is, you know, we were endeavoring in this on the mountain, learning about that just through personal experience and through Growing F1s that we were making and also polyhybrids and also All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started.

29:01SpeakerWe're going to get started.

29:24Speakerum but you know then i also realized it's not like everything i call the true f1 even turned out exactly like an f1 would we're still pretty immature in our even even us you know as as people have been breeding for a long time uh still pretty immature in the process you you recognize that uh in agriculture people they don't they don't run a hundred plants to make selections on they run you know an insane amount of plants and And yeah, you got to run an insane amount.

29:56SpeakerSo they advance the potential really quickly through populations. And so populations give you selections. If you have something that is not expressing uniformly, you're going to have to open up populations, clump together phenotypes, breed phenotypes to the same phenotypes in order to strengthen the uniformity And then once the uniformity is more reliable, you can start utilizing that as breeding stock. That can take two generations, that can take 10 generations.

30:34SpeakerFrom a large scale agricultural standpoint, it takes more than 10 generations. You kind of got to do it for a while, but it doesn't mean it can't be done in a shorter time. So, you know, ultimately, You know, the background of Green Source Gardens is we produced flower for the market for a long time. Outdoor grown. We didn't use lights to trick things. We didn't use extra light.

31:05SpeakerWe actually just really focused on the stuff that was grown straight outdoors and found it to be of higher quality and better resin and all that. So we were an operating business in the OLCC for a long time. And I learned a lot. And I wouldn't change things. It was a hard, stressful time of awakening. And it ultimately just led us back into the spirit of it all.

31:39SpeakerAnd that's where we started. And that's where we'll finish, regardless of what Green Source Gardens is actually doing at the moment. You know, we're always engaged in the process of evolving ourselves, the plants, our families, our gardens. And so we just are open to evolution. And we understand the need to evolve right now more than ever. So we're just Trying to evolve. And that doesn't mean doing the same thing that everybody else is doing.

32:10SpeakerThat just means it looks different. Evolution and things changing look different, you know. So we try to keep things looking different, you know. And I don't subscribe to uniformity, though I know how to utilize uniformity. But it's not my cup of tea. Thank you for joining us.

33:01SpeakerThat's one way to introduce us, I guess. You were talking breeding, so I kind of went in the breeding slant realm, but yeah.

33:09BubblemanI'm sure Chimera was biting his lip the whole time. I feel like as you were, you know, we've kind of got, you know, the person that I feel like at this point in time has some of the deepest knowledge in regards to breeding cannabis. Is is Ryan Lee, who's in the room right now, Chimera. So he's he got to listen to that. It was beautifully well put, man.

33:29BubblemanI appreciate what you guys are doing at Green Source Gardens. And, you know, it's it's of course, when it comes to following You start as this sort of cool idea, this concept. A lot of us were activists. We were fighting for the rights of cannabis to be even allowed. Forget about where we are today. I don't think 25 to 30 years ago, a lot of us even would ever have thought we could get to where we are today, even though now we spend so much time complaining about how it is.

34:00BubblemanI'm just happy people aren't getting their doors kicked down as often and getting guns put in their face and getting arrested by the police and having their properties and children taken and their dogs shot. All the horrific stories that used to sort of follow cannabis and cannabis growing around and now we have this opportunity that You know, everyone can play to a degree if you want to get your license, if you want to jump in.

34:24BubblemanAnd, you know, when you go down that pathway, and I've seen it with big companies, they look at things a very specific way. It's all about can we make sure this is so consistent that we always get exactly the same thing? And I'm not just talking about like the grow. I'm talking about right into the processing, the extracts, the packaging, just this impossible, almost mental illness type of Thank you so much for joining us.

35:17SpeakerIt's partly to, you know, I'm not going to blame the consumer, but I mean, it's partly, it's just a result of the way of our market, what our market looks like, right? That expectation of the consumer of everything being the same. And, you know, we've ended up in this legalization after 50 plus, 75 years, really, of the serious prohibition, right? Where in all these other agricultural crops like corn or wheat, there's all this development and uniformity and real breeding going on by scientists.

35:48SpeakerAnd instead, you know, like you said, you flip your switch on sounding like, you know, probably like the absolute peak of the cannabis gold rush, 2016 to 2018. And you've been trying to run a business since then, also cobbling together your own cultivars and Right. Your own varieties. And like, that's a huge demand for a farm of your size. It's like, you know, and I'm not saying you're doing it wrong.

36:19SpeakerI'm just saying it's unrealistic that one organization would be able to do all that. You know, and it's, again, it's not a reflection of you. It's just a reflection of where the industry's been over the last 75 to 100 years. Because during all those years of prohibition where all these other crops were being subject to real breeding and development by scientists all over the world, cannabis was, you know, kind of left in the hands of these renegades, us renegades.

36:51SpeakerUm, that didn't in many cases, didn't really know what we were doing and we're trying to figure it out. And we're also, you know, conserving the germplasm of a species while the UN and the United States through the DEA is running around all over the world, trying to suppress these cannabis cultures from Thailand to Morocco to, you know, everywhere. And, uh, yeah, like it's, it's, it's, it kind of makes sense that we are, we're at the, we're at the, we're at the end of the road that we traveled.

37:26SpeakerRight. And so it's really hard when you want to take this kind of ethical or ideological. ideologically driven mandate like you're taking on like hey we're gonna go out to the field and do it all from seed and fuck uniformity and uh you know try to do it all your way it's just it's a lot it's really hard to do And in many places, as much as we have, like all this development and quality hash making technology and extraction and, you know, all the edibles and all these new products, the vape pens and all the stuff that we've got that are kind of new in the last 20 years, the breeding hasn't really caught up.

38:12SpeakerAnd, you know, I kind of feel like, you know, I've done a lot of breeding, a lot of different types of breeding and And I kind of feel like there's all these different ways of going about doing it. And again, it's a lot of it's driven by ideology. Like an open pollination is about preservation. It's not about refinement and development. It's about keeping everything. And it's really about, hey, let's keep everything so that we have everything to work with in the future.

38:41SpeakerThe exact opposite is that real tight inbreeding or even selfing where you're trying to... Maybe take something that you have, like a phenotype that you have and lock that down into a seed line so that, you know, so that you can commercialize it. It just means you have customers, right? So that a customer, when they buy the thing that you're selling them, all the plants come up looking the same.

39:07SpeakerAnd then there's this other type of breeding, which is really about hybridization and creating with the intent of discovering and creating something new.

39:20SpeakerAnd those are all really like three different, very, very different goals. And they're all relevant in their own way, but they're all very different. And the processes that you're going to take to get to those end goals is all different. And it's hard to do it. Again, it's kind of that jack of all trades, master of none. It's like you really got to pick which avenue you're going to go down.

39:46SpeakerBecause each one of those kind of subheadings of what breeding could be is really like it's monstrous and you could fill your whole life with it. Right. So, yeah, it's good to hear you talking about that because these are definitely really the issues that we're facing today as an industry. Yeah. And, you know, like the place that I've kind of come to it is like I've just realized there's so many different ways to like further the genetics.

40:21SpeakerYou know, one person can be saying this is an F4 and another person can say this is an F4. And depending on how they got to that fourth generation, the outcome could be so different. It could be very stable. It could be very unstable in terms of phenotypic expression. Yeah, well, I just did an episode of the Breeders cast with these guys from Washington. They have a podcast.

40:51SpeakerIt's all really kind of more nerdy specifically for breeders. And that really was kind of one of the points, right? Yeah.

41:03SpeakerA lot of people see these F4, F3, F5 as like, you know, you just have to do a certain number of crosses and then you get that goal and you get to have that little merit badge that says F5 that you can sew on your blazer, right? And it's like, it doesn't really mean anything. F2, F3 is just about trying to give you an idea of what the level of uniformity or segregation of genetics is going to be happening at that particular generation.

41:31SpeakerIt's really about... The breeder giving information to the growers so that they know what to expect. But, you know, people kind of feel like, hey, it's I got to F4, now you crossed the finish line, right? Like you can get down to F4 and still be in totally the wrong place and have to go back to the F1 generation. Like it's not really like, oh, you crossed the line and now you're done just because you got to F4, right?

41:57SpeakerBut I think to a certain degree, a lot of the community uses it that way. You can, you know, sometimes like if I make an F1 cross and then you make, you know, your F2 yourselves from your F1 generation, you might want to grow like 10, 15, 20 different families from that one generation before you even identify which of the lines you're going to continue down. Right.

42:22SpeakerAnd I don't think a lot of people do that. I think a lot of people say, oh, I made my F1 and then I made my F2 and now I'm at F3. It's like sometimes you get to F3 and the only thing that you've learned is that you have to go back to F2. Right. But people kind of they're like, oh, we'll just go on from F3 and hopefully we can fix it by F4.

42:41SpeakerIt's like, no, you're just going farther down the wrong road. Right. So I think I think the biggest mistake that people are making in their inbred line work is population size. So it's like there is a narrowing point where you have to reduce the population to create the characteristic expression that you're looking for. But then once you've done that, you have to open the population back up in order to retain as much genetic diversity that is possible within that expression so that you have some kind of reliability down the run.

43:13SpeakerIf you want to keep making F generations on something that's stable, you have to start opening up populations to do larger You know, more males, more females to capture more of the already Aaron Waite, CDE, CDE, CDE, CDE, CDE,

43:55SpeakerAnd they still have a thousand of those. And so the genetic diversity within the line is still bigger. And so therefore it's easier to work with an inbred line that's been made with larger populations versus We've got a couple of questions here. We've got a couple of questions here. We've got a couple of questions here. We've got a couple of questions.

44:37SpeakerEspecially if the populations have been so reduced to single parent, female, single male for too long. It just wipes out the potential, I feel like. Um, though I think you could take something that's been pretty wiped out and cross it and, and find, uh, renew, renew some, some vigor within that and, and see that work. Uh, sometimes I wonder about inbred lines that aren't performing very well, still making better breeders than polyhybrids because you're now, you're putting that genetic up against a brand new thing.

45:12SpeakerSo it's, it's this whole new thing that's created. So even if the parent was really weak, it might create a really strong offspring. There's no that's how it is or that's how it's not. It's unique to every situation. But that's kind of where I see people making a lot of mistakes is this continued narrowing through too many generations versus doing a good job F2, F3 to get what you want and then start increasing populations of that line to preserve that expression, I guess.

45:46SpeakerAnd also to preserve the genetic diversity so that you can make good selections for vigor within the inbred line that keeps it going. But I'm not a scientific breeder, you know, like I make observations and stuff. So I do some science while I'm doing it. But I'm not like I didn't go to the schools and I didn't engage in the labs. And it's not necessarily my desire.

46:11SpeakerYou know, at this point, I've learned what I feel like. You know, I feel like we all have the capacity to learn whatever we choose to learn because we have access to so much information that can Sometimes bite us in the butt because we think what we're reading is truth and then realize that, you know, actually there's a million different ways that all this can go. So you can't really take any information that you're getting from the internet or from any place and call it 100% because there's more at play in our world than what we see.

46:44SpeakerAnd so that little piece And we could call that spirituality. We call it the unseen worlds. And that piece is the piece that will never be fully understood by scientific methods. So, you know, we can do pursue scientific methods and get to a really far place with it. But, you know, if you're talking about things that you can only see, And, and create experiments with, and you're, you're missing out maybe on a large percentage of what even actually exists, you know, which is the spirit side.

47:21SpeakerGreen source, love and respect. I mean, I think I, I often talk a lot about that, that the diversity is the, is the, the ruler. And you've been showing a lot of how you're, Thank you so much for joining us today.

48:07SpeakerA lot of my passion is coming out of a coffee. We met at the Regenerative Conference a few years back and you shared some coffee with me. And this has been such a blessing to our area and very much the diversity of what I had going on is what So I really like that, that you're bringing attention to. It's not some preconceived notion that you have, but it's the diversity.

48:43SpeakerIt's you maybe preparing to allow your area and what exists on your piece of the pie, piece of the earth to enfold.

48:57SpeakerYeah, I very much like that and wanted to hop on and thank you and ask if you wanted to talk about the coffee specifically. For me, it was a skunky sweetness that was very evocative of the head, referenced this unseen power that we're maybe attracted to. And it was a big improvement. Just wanted to share some love and respect and thanks for you furthering these flavors. Right on.

49:25SpeakerI appreciate that. And it's always nice to hear. And I'll speak to the coffee. I can talk about the coffee because it was one of the most, you know, uniform things that I kind of got a hold of. And it was a little bit, there was some different expressions when I first got it at F2 or F3 from Kaya. I can't even remember what. And I grew it actually in a gulch, kind of like didn't give it that much of the, you know, the loamy, greasy, fatty soil that makes things big and luscious, but put it in a gulch area in a breeding area.

50:12SpeakerSo for breeding, sometimes I've found that if I can breed things in stressful environments, I can't necessarily look at the plant and tell you what it's going to look like when you bring it out in the full sun in the loam. But what does come through in those situations are kind of like the nose and, you know, the flowers generally. Aaron Wendel, CEO Alphabet and Google

50:50SpeakerSo, you know, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's

51:15SpeakerThat which was bred in those stressful places. And you put them out in the full sun and you start to look at what happens then. And then you can kind of gauge what this is going to do when it's done well, I guess. Because the other thing about ganja, and I call it ganja, that's just kind of my name for it. I think it's important to acknowledge kind of the ancient realms of where this entity and spirit came from.

51:48SpeakerBut you, you know, the, where was I headed with that? We're talking coffee, bring it back out into the field, look at its full potential in that realm. Oh, but even in that realm, people grow so differently that the morphology of a plant can change so much based on the nutrient supply. And so, you know, you run into this thing with the normal weed growers where they're all buying These bagged amendments and they're all subscribing to everything from the mycorrhizal inoculation to the high nitrogen during vegetative growth to the high phosphorus during flower to the crazy insane amounts of molasses that people like to, they're just, people are just going crazy trying to think they're going to create the best thing in the whole world.

52:40SpeakerAnd I think we have to deprogram Thank you so much for joining us today.

53:13SpeakerYou know, I. You give people the same seed and you tell them all to grow it and they don't all end up with the same thing, even Just because of the way they practice growing. And so many people are just shooting so much powder at these things that, you know, like you can turn something that I grow and looks this way into something way leafier and way looser and way bigger and way fluffier because there's so much nutrient availability that people like to put in their plants.

53:46SpeakerThey don't finish until super late because they think they want to keep growing. And and so getting really Tony Vandermeer, MD, Heimlich, MD, honed in on how this plant likes to work, you can realize like you can pick a spot with less light and grow a looser, Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you next time.

54:31SpeakerUh, uh, speech there. And it was, um, you know, the throwing the powder at it or what the, the, the, the, the thing that we think that we're doing and what is actually available to the plant in the same way that some people will eat vitamins that maybe don't even become uptaken by the body, you know, and then just pass through. And, uh, you know, the, the word of the ganja ganja and God's garden, And Ganjali, you are very much sound like a Ganjali, a steward where you're presenting an environment where the spirit can do its thing.

55:09SpeakerAnd I, this is church and it's great to see everyone. And pardon me for also recognizing and loving that there's this spirit that is enfolding something with the sun.

55:20BubblemanI saw the spirit on your face while it's Nick, right? Yeah. Yes. While Nick was talking. I saw the spirit on your face, Adam. The smile that you were looking at while he was talking was how I felt. So thank you, brother, for coming on and sharing all of that. I'm going to do a short interruption, which will be to go down. I like to play around with chat GPT and grok.

55:44BubblemanAnd so when he said ganja, I was like, oh, I wonder what grok would tell me is the definition of ganja. And it kind of made me chuckle. So I was going to share it with you guys. The term ganja, also spelled ganja, so it's the term ganja, G-A-N-J-A-H, also spelled G-A-N-J-A, refers to a term of Sanskrit in Hindi origin commonly used to describe cannabis or marijuana, particularly in the context of its flowers or resinous buds used for smoking or medicinal purposes.

56:15BubblemanIt is deeply rooted in cultural, spiritual, and medicinal contexts, especially in regions like India, Jamaica, and among Rastafarian communities around the world. The etymology and cultural context origin derived from the Sanskrit word ganja referring to the cannabis plant or its psychoactive preparations. The term was adopted into Hindi and other Indian languages. Usage in India. In ancient Indian texts like the Artharveda, cannabis revered to as bang or ganja is considered a sacred plant with medicinal and spiritual properties often used in Ayurvedic medicine and religious rituals.

56:46BubblemanRastafarian in Jamaican cultures. In Jamaica, ganja is a colloquial term for marijuana embraced by Rastafarians as a sacramental herb that aids meditation, spiritual connection, and healing. Its use is often tied to resistance against oppression and colonial systems. Modern usage. Globally, ganja is a slang term for high-quality cannabis often associated with potential strains or the cultural legacy. Sorry, Chimera. It doesn't know yet. Additional notes. This one got me laughing.

57:13BubblemanThe term is sometimes used in brand names, strain names, ganja white knight, or soma seed strains, or cultural references in music, literature, and cannabis communities like Hash Church. Wow. Let's take it back.

57:29SpeakerAt least it got the last part right. But what a word salad.

57:33BubblemanDude, but I only read the word salad to get to the last part. I know, I know.

57:37SpeakerAt least it got the last part right. Anyway, back to our conversation. Gone is the Hebrew or ancient word for garden. Ja is God. I love thinking of it as of God's garden. A ganjaliye is a steward of God's garden. I think ganja refers to all of the medicine that comes from God's garden and not just the herb. But I love taking it back. I think we as a community very much Thank you.

58:10SpeakerThank you. Thank you. Thank you.

58:29SpeakerSomewhat our gardens may be linked definitely with the genetic, but it seems to have the same protected vibe where it's...

58:40BubblemanSo the coffee, tell me about the coffee. I got some seeds from Kaya of the Kaya's coffee, but what's the historic lineage to the coffee? Like the best that we can put together.

58:54SpeakerIt comes directly from Shiva. Ah. To me, the flavor was, as we discussed, a sweet skunk. And the head and the body and the time, the potency, again, the potency of and powerfulness, what I would describe as maybe one of the most evocative and powerful medicines that in 20 years I've come across. Made it so preferable and delicious. And it didn't, it wasn't forward with the gassy skunk or the off-putting what Dr. Mark described to us last week as like maybe the methyl ring part of the skunk, but the other compound, yeah, I, to me, To me, it was, it's one of the most fun and pleasurable medicines.

59:56SpeakerUm, and I, I mean, I, I don't know if other people are finding it this interesting, but for me, it was like the most, it wasn't the roadkill version of skunk. It was very much, um, yeah, had a sweetness to it. So, and maybe pushed with a little caryophylline, um,

1:00:20SpeakerWhen I started with it, I saw a couple of different expressions in terms of the smell. And there was one that had less, a more muted smell, which is obviously the hasher. It just always is the case. The loudest things are usually not hashers. Just the nature of how oil, oily resin works. It's super volatile and waxy resin is not. And so, you know, when you're, I ended up making selections for the most volatile components, the oily.

1:00:55SpeakerSo I wasn't making hash necessarily at that time. So it wasn't something I was focusing on hash with. I was focusing on it from a standpoint of what is The loudest thing that is coming out of this line and making those selections. The plant itself is obviously Afghani by nature. We talk about where does it come from? All ganja comes from Shiva. And I'm surprised the AI didn't even talk about Shiva in that whole expression through the term ganja.

1:01:30SpeakerBut, you know, AI has always got something really wrong and a bunch of really cool right stuff, but it's always missing the point on something. I mean...

1:01:38BubblemanThe unseen. It misses the unseen.

1:01:41SpeakerYeah. So, but the coffee, I selected away from the hashing side of things. So the coffee's coming out of my garden. Now we're F5, F6, F7. We're all really loud, oily. You touch it with your hand and it's basically... Thank you for joining us.

1:02:27SpeakerSo, you know, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's

1:02:56SpeakerYeah, it's not a full, especially in ganja or in cannabis, whatever you want to call it. It's not a varietal. But it is of that sacred nature. And so it has everything in there to become a variety. It just needs some work if you want to go in the direction of appeasing The brain and intellect side of physical humans right now. Otherwise, you know, less judgment on things is, you know, the lens you put on when you engage in your relationship to ganja is going to Play a big role in the outcome.

1:03:45SpeakerAnd if you are constantly walking around judging your plants for what's good about them and what's bad about them, you're going down a path that's taking you further away from the spirit side and bringing you further into the material side. And, you know, if you're not incorporating, there's this thing. I mean, even to say that is a highly judgmental thing. Yeah. Let's talk about the ego and hubris and the, again, the grower knowing what we know what's best.

1:04:18SpeakerI think this is all, this is where our culture is very ripe with us assuming, giving credence to an outside expert that maybe doesn't have the best interest of the patient in mind. And, uh, I've talked before about the mountain, the temperature. These are metrics that we can attempt to control. But for me, what has pushed forward the most healthy and evocative and tasty and good experience is beyond everything that I can do and anything that anyone else can do of going and getting a product And it is all from the diversity that exists here.

1:05:08SpeakerAnd that literally pushing, pushing to the place that I've prepared, pushing and overtaking the diversity that I've tried to stimulate. And, you know, the forest will, and you talk about planting the gulch and, you know, you have very much the, You know, the area is going to attempt to overtake and your job is to kind of present an area or steward a small portion of that. And so, yeah, just that I think it is the ego of the grower, knowing you the best.

1:05:45SpeakerAnd really, to me, it is in removing a lot of that attention, feeding quite literally the life around the plant so that there is a life cycle So that there is a life and death that feeds into the root and just even recognizing that where you're not feeding the plant, you're feeding the organizms that surround the family that's around the plant. Yeah, another just a final cool idea of from my arborist experience, the tree, the plant, the trees themselves are feeding Some of their sugars that they produce and some of their life energy out through their roots to the community so that there can be life and death.

1:06:33SpeakerAnd it might be something like 60% of their life force is going to that which is around them. And this, and I don't know how you metric that, but that is stunning that the individual is feeding the thousands that live in their neighborhood So that there can be a healthy environment that they can then benefit from. Take care of your neighbors. Holy cow.

1:06:59BubblemanThat's why the trees were always happy, happy little trees.

1:07:05BubblemanSequestering carbon from one another.

1:07:10SpeakerYeah, I used to say all the time, back to what you were saying, Adam, is, you know, people always want to like, Look at my garden, and then you go to their garden, and they're so excited about it, and they're so happy about it. And sure, you look at the ganja, and they've certainly taken care of that, you know. But I've always said, if you really want your ganja to thrive, you have to take care of everything else besides the ganja.

1:07:43SpeakerBecause the ganja doesn't necessarily, isn't gonna, it's not just, You know, it's not all about the ganja. The ganja is here because of everything else. And so there's another piece of all this that's really important to recognize is, is there is, I was talking about this vesica idea where say two things overlap. Brad Balser, CEO Alphabet and Google. : Thank you. Brad Balser, CEO Alphabet and Google.

1:08:14Speaker: Thank you.

1:08:33SpeakerAnd not that humanity is separate from nature, but the potential of nature with human consciousness involved is greater than without it. And so, you know, a lot of people think humans are parasites to the planet and a lot of cases they are depending on the lens that the human's looking through and how they participate. But if you understand that when you're designing or creating a garden, that it's a relationship between the other side and not a dominance, You know, because one person wants to build a garden, they say, I want it to be square and they don't even take into account the slope and the way things are.

1:09:09SpeakerThey just think it's going to be like, I want it to be straight line square because it's easy to put irrigation down. It's easy to amend. It's easy to do this and that. And they they destroy everything in their area as if they're at war. Well, the opposite of that is to engage and invite everything in the area as Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:10:00SpeakerAaron Ward- engage in both and not be adamantly opposed to one or the other, and I think a lot of people think i'm opposed to science and. All this stuff. It's like, no, we all do science. It's just the funny thing about science is science thinks they know it all. And, you know, that's the piece of it that I, you know, just I just think it's kind of funny.

1:10:23SpeakerIt's like it is science and using the proper language in it. It's not. I got to totally object to what you're saying there. Science says we don't know anything and everything that we state is is open to question. So if you think that science says you know it all then you're right I think I think you're absolutely right but I think in general on a you know on the grand scheme of modern humans you know when you hear people say science says this well they never take into account the fact the pieces that are missing because a lot of the science that's presented to us is funded science and not I don't trust things that are funded and looking for certain results and then paying people to do experiments to come up with answers that fit the narrative that they're trying to create.

1:11:15SpeakerAnd so in the modern world, I don't think... Listen, I'm a scientist. I've never been paid once to come up with a finding, ever.

1:11:22BubblemanNo, he's talking about the majority of mainstream scientists. You, Chimera, are unique in the aspect that you just speak the fucking truth. Thank you. Thank you.

1:12:00SpeakerIt is, right? We're testing hypothesis. It's a way of method. It's a method for testing knowledge.

1:12:07Dr Mark ScialdoneI want to be a scientist when I grow up.

1:12:10SpeakerWhen we see, I think the science is showing us that there is that the idea of one love or the oneness or the interconnectedness or the spirit being connected to the inputs in the environment, to the fact that when you have, you know, the science of modern agriculture, of having a wasteland desert that all the topsoil has been removed from and

1:12:39SpeakerWe're the only green thing is the piece of broccoli or the thing. And so you create an environment where any pests that wouldn't really be pests if there was an actual garden that existed. That you create this situation where you're going to say, oh, now we need, science is telling us we need to apply these pesticides and toxins to the environment. And so, so our not recognition that this, you know, the Garden of Eden means the Gan Eden means fertile garden.

1:13:15SpeakerAnd so us, you know, with our modern science, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:13:34SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:13:52SpeakerSo if you consider like the 90s and the 80s and certainly the 70s, there was this mass prohibition of information from a bunch of prohibitionists that were trying to create a narrative of the world, right, so that they could manipulate people into staying away from things like cannabis because cannabis might free your mind and that was far too dangerous for society. Right. And so when you consider like, forget science, when you consider that we come from a culture that is so, so like wrought with control and fear that, that people are afraid of having, of others having access to a plant, right?

1:14:34SpeakerLike that's a sick society. Right. And of course, a lot of these practices of society, like, you know, the way that we've been doing agriculture, this mass monoculture for, for 40 years.

1:14:48SpeakerI don't look at those things as science, right? I think those are people that are, and just, just like there's a lot of people that are, you know, truly spiritual, but they're, Manipulating what might be of religion, right? It's like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of frauds that use these words in ways that they're not really the way we're talking about it. But I like, to me, I don't see anything negative about science.

1:15:13SpeakerI think there's negative things about industry, but for me, science is really a way of looking at the world. It's a tool to investigate whether something is true or not. The sickness and the fear is coming out of the practice of us, of our lack of recognition of the connection between the life in the soil, our children's, the life in our children's stomachs. And, you know, the fear, the things that keep us in a empathetic, outward thinking, non-self-centered, non-fearful state, Dr. Justin Marchegiani, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD,

1:16:11SpeakerNot science, but really connecting the buffer that our digestion starts at the roots of the food, not necessarily in our stomachs. And I like this idea of us pushing against what we've done, what our forefathers have done back into, hey, let's recognize taking care of the field outside that surrounds our children's schools will benefit The will benefit the adults that they grow into.

1:16:44BubblemanAnd yeah, I, I think it's the air as well, Adam, you know, did you ever, have you ever seen the, if there's a KRS video where he talks about, he's, he's saying, you know, this right here around us, this, we think it's air, but it's not air. And he says, he, he realized that if he stops and he closes his nose and his mouth for four minutes, that he separated from this substance for four minutes.

1:17:09BubblemanThat his heart doesn't stop, his brain doesn't stop, his body functions don't stop, but the thing that he loses immediately Thank you so much for joining us.

1:17:43SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:18:04SpeakerUh, hazmat ET suits in Napa, spraying the grapes in the middle of the night. I think all of this is, um, offensive and, uh, we should be moving the other direction. Mark, what do you think about all this?

1:18:21BubblemanHe's laughing his head off.

1:18:23Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, no. I mean, all the,

1:18:30Dr Mark ScialdoneChatter about science. I don't want to piss off any MAGA people in the chat, but well, I'll tell you what, let me can that conversation for now. I want to go back to something that you had said, Adam, which is about, you know, the trees exuding sugar and, you know, doing things down in the soil. So you got to remember trees are plants, right? And, and, and plants, Don't fix nitrogen from the air, right?

1:18:59Dr Mark ScialdoneSo 79% of that mixture we call air, right, is nitrogen gas, N2, which is pretty inert. And it's difficult to make it into soluble nitrogen, but microbes and fungi and insects have been around for millennia and they figured out How to fix nitrogen. And so nitrogen is important for plants because

1:19:34Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, nitrogen is just an essential element in things called amino acids, which is what proteins are made of. DNA is rich with nitrogen. There's nitrogen all throughout biology, right? And so you need soluble nitrogen and nitrogen that's in the air around us. It's just N2, right? Diatomic nitrogen is super unreactive. But these bugs have evolved these enzymes, which are these metal centered proteins. That coordinate diatomic nitrogen and do what it takes a chemist in a lab and caustic reagents and high pressure and all kinds of shit.

1:20:15Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, I could react nitrogen in the lab. In fact, one thing I used to have in my lab was something called a dry box. And what we actually do in the dry box, it's like that thing you see Homer Simpson, Have at the nuclear plant, you know, with the big rubber gloves and everything, and you can get in the rubber gloves and work on stuff inside the dry box.

1:20:38Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, we flush the dry box with nitrogen to keep it good and inert. And one time I didn't realize this, but nitrogen reacts with lithium wire and it makes a really pretty fire. It's like a cherry red, really ruby red colored flame that I've never seen before. So you can react nitrogen with stuff. Lithium itself is super reactive, like metallic sodium. It's going to react immediately with water.

1:21:08Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, yeah, so bugs like insects have figured out how to fix nitrogen. And so that's a really important symbiotic relationship between plants and what's going on in the soil, because the plants need nitrogen. Without any nitrogen, you don't have proteins, you don't have DNA, you don't have pigments. You don't have all the things, all the biochemical machinery is based on carbon and nitrogen. It's plenty of carbon, right?

1:21:42Dr Mark ScialdoneSo we know where carbon comes from, right? You were talking about oxygen, right? So we get oxygen from plants through photosynthesis and exchange when we talk and when we breathe out and when we fart, we send a lot of CO2 into the environment. And so the plant takes CO2 through photosynthesis and turns it into soluble sugar. And then sugar gets polymerized into something called cellulose, which is basically what paper and trees are made out of.

1:22:10Dr Mark ScialdoneAnother biochemical pathway is the sugar is converted into something called lignin, right, which is the other stuff inside trees and woody biomass, right? So the lignin is kind of like the glue that holds the sheets of cellulose together, right? And the whole... We have a paper and pulp plant up the way here and it's not a good scene, dude. I bet you it smells like rotten eggs, right?

1:22:41Dr Mark ScialdoneAlso the whiskey. It smells like sulfur, right?

1:22:44SpeakerThe extract of whiskey is the crinoline converting to vanillin via alcohol extraction of the barrel. I think like there are.

1:22:52Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, there's all kinds of chemistry.

1:22:55SpeakerBut and maybe there's also to me, the there is a patient. There is a patient at patients access to nitrogen via, as I understand it, the plant. Soil Grown, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm,

1:23:31Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, there's an economy of atoms there that's happening. Like, you know, Mother Nature doesn't waste anything. Matters neither created nor destroyed, right? Except inside nuclear fission reactors and stuff. Damn, there are. Like, you know, Mother Nature's cycle outdoors is, yeah, I mean... The reason why we're not up to our elbows in rotten wood from trees that have fallen in centuries past is because there's fungi and insects like termites that eat wood, right?

1:24:10Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so, yeah, they eat wood. As it turns out, termites actually can't digest cellulose. They rely on a bacteria in their gut that's able to basically depolymerize cellulose and turn it into sugar, right? So yeah, I mean, time course of evolution in terms of like what's evolved on planet Earth takes advantage of if there's a feedstock that's being given off by one species, it's absorbed by another species, right?

1:24:44Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd until like when you look at like the dead carcass of animals out on the prairie that have completely been stripped of anything edible and it turns into basically minerals right it's just the bones and the skeleton that's left and basically that gets mineralized and turned into you know soil again so yeah so nothing goes away the animal the animal is a part of this cycle we need that yeah we need those enzymes in the animals And maybe the purpose of humans.

1:25:18Dr Mark ScialdoneSo humans have done a lot of interesting stuff on planet Earth since we've been here for the last couple of hundred thousand years.

1:25:26SpeakerThe Haber method and us grabbing the nitrogen and feeding it to the plant instead of this. Well, again, your lab and the gloves and needing the isolation and all of this stuff isn't not cool. But to me, the coolness does exist in the green that is in the surrounding garden. Even the weeds, the things that are less preferable, these things know how to take what is in the soil, uplift it, grab the nitrogen from the air, localize it, compost it, mix it with the carbon.

1:26:10SpeakerThe bacterias are doing their digestion. And that is presenting the diet to the local plants exactly what it needs. And so it's a bit of this harbor, go get the nitrogen from somewhere else, feed it in there, that it is another way to do it.

1:26:32BubblemanI always feel like as much as we think we know about these intelligences, these fungi and plant intelligences, we are not perceiving even close To the full picture of what is going on. And so this becomes a bit of this is where where science does freak me out a little bit where it's kind of like, where we perceive a small amount, and then we base our observations on our perceptions, what we perceive, we base our whole thing on that.

1:27:02BubblemanBut it's like, What if the rabbit hole continues to go deeper and deeper and deeper as we become more aware through, I guess, more advanced prosthetics, i.e. machinery and equipment that allows our senses to perceive on planes that we, you know, like when Dr. Mark is using a proton NMR, that's a fucking prosthetic, dude. Like that is not just some machine. To me, that is a human prosthetic for our senses that allows him to perceive things down to the billionth.

1:27:33BubblemanBut only in the particular way that that piece of machinery is built. So, yeah, there's a lot to be said about it. I think that I'm definitely a fan of science and, you know, what science can do. I definitely see that everything is a double edged sword. And so obviously, you know, people, how could science be a double edged sword? It's like, well, well, remember when they split the atom?

1:27:57Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, something that we ought to talk about because, you know, and again, I don't want to get political, but, you know, I'll stop by just saying elections do matter. And the leadership of our country right now has taken very draconian measures to basically really decimate the United States leadership position in the world. As an innovator around biomedical sciences and natural sciences like astronomy and chemistry and physics.

1:28:31Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd just recently, the other day in the New York Times, a story came out saying that RFK's budget now is calling for The elimination of a institute. So let me talk about the National Institutes of Health for a second. So National Institutes of Health are a bunch of institutes that all fall under an umbrella that's funded by the Health and Human Services organization, which is led by this RFK guy.

1:29:05Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay. I think putting RFK in that position, this is way over his head. He doesn't know what he's doing. They've stopped cancer research. They've stopped Alzheimer's research. They basically put a pause on all the stuff that the NIH is currently doing. And that's directly affected me and my job and my funding. This basically takes money out of my pocket, Marcus.

1:29:33BubblemanBut can I say one thing without you being potentially triggered? Is not the United States literally the most unhealthy country in the world right now with the most Alzheimer's and the most cancers? Are these groups doing a good job? Do these groups maybe need to lose some of their funding? Like, what the fuck have they been doing for the last 25 years that your numbers are climbing at such an accelerated rate?

1:29:59BubblemanYou have the highest Alzheimer's, the highest cancer, the highest obesity. You know, I mean, fuck, dude. I'm just saying from a Canadian perspective and... Keep in mind, over here in Canada, we got your Kamala Harris. We didn't get the conservative. We got the super fucking liberal. And they're going to destroy our country too. So don't fall victim to this division mentality. Because truly, like I'm telling you, they're both evil.

1:30:28BubblemanAnd all I can remember about evil is when Jerry Garcia said, remember, when you choose the lesser of two evils, you're still choosing evil.

1:30:38Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, but you're taking that statement out of context like everybody else does because lesser evil is better than more evil. And let me just get to how this relates to the candidates, which is why I'm bringing this up. So one of his moves, one of his draconian moves is to basically eliminate the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health. This is the institute in the NIH that is studying the medical benefits of cannabis.

1:31:06Dr Mark ScialdoneSo basically there are hundreds of millions of dollars that are being spent and you can go to their website and you could look at something called the NIH Reporter. And when you look at these, so this is reporter.nih.gov and do a key search word on cannabis. And what you'll see is all of the projects that are being funded by the NIH on cannabis. And there's literally thousands of them, right?

1:31:34Dr Mark ScialdoneMy project's in there, okay? So... The money that these colleges and universities get not only pay for the research that's being done, but the money that the colleges get are very important for all of the overhead costs, like the janitor and the toilet paper and the flagpole outside and the guy who cuts the lawn out there. So when those funds are removed, You know, colleges, and you hear about Harvard, because Harvard's in the news lately, and schools like Columbia, those are very, very wealthy schools that have very large billion dollar endowments.

1:32:14Dr Mark ScialdoneMy little school, we don't have a billion dollar endowment, right? And so we rely on this funding to basically not only do our research, but also to pay our salaries. And when that money goes away, guess what happens to our salary? It goes away too. Not cool, right? So I want everybody to go to reporter.nih.gov and do a key search on cannabis. And what you'll see, I'm just going to read the title of some of these studies.

1:32:42Dr Mark ScialdoneAssessing the benefits and harms of cannabis use in patients treated with immunotherapy for cancer, a prospective cohort study. That's 667,000 That goes to the State University of New York at Buffalo, shared by three different principal investigators. That's funded by the National Cancer Institute.

1:33:02SpeakerWhat are some of their findings? What did they find out?

1:33:05Dr Mark ScialdoneI tell you what, there's literally hundreds of projects here. And Adam, you need to do your homework. Go to the web and start reading about it. I'm not going to tell you about it now. You can read about it for yourself.

1:33:17SpeakerI just thought you might know.

1:33:20Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, I'm just scrolling through NIH.gov. And you can see there's literally hundreds of projects here. And what you find out is that the institutes that are funding these, let me read some of these institutes, the National Institute for Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, the National Institutes for General Medical Sciences, the National Institute of Mental Health, The National Institute on Aging. The National Institute for Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism.

1:33:55Dr Mark ScialdoneThe National Center for Advancing Translational Services. Translational services is is a name for moving things through clinical trials. They get billions of dollars to basically try to move drugs through clinical trials. And right now, cannabinoids, including the phyto cannabinoids, are in clinical trials. This is the Institute in The NIH that pays for that.

1:34:20BubblemanBut how does a group like this exist in the US when you have the FDA just letting like poisonous like flavor compounds and natural flavors and all these different dyes and just absolutely cantankerous poisonous products being put into your food? Like from the Canadian perspective, your whole system needs to be ripped down and don't even get started on universities, bro. Universities up here in Canada, because I can't speak down there, Are so fucking brainwashed and woke, it's Painful to even be exposed to and I'm telling you because I had kids go to them.

1:34:56BubblemanKids are terrified to share their opinions. They're absolutely fucking terrified. University children are terrified to share their opinions because they'll be cancelled in some form or another even if they just want to maybe discuss something and it really really went into overdrive in Canada when they started compelling speech at universities and fining and potentially jailing professors if they didn't compel To bend the knee to these speeches that they wanted them to particular words they wanted them to use and say.

1:35:25BubblemanAnd then, of course, when COVID-19 came in, holy Christ, man, I'll tell you, like the majority of young people who got at least that I spoke to, which was obviously not a huge percentage. They all told me they got this vaccine, not because they believed that it would help them with their health, but that they needed to go to parties and bars and be able to go to school and their jobs.

1:35:48BubblemanAnd they really like, I just thought, whoa, that's a terrible fucking reason to get the vaccine. You know, at least the people that I met that were like, I'm getting it because I truly believe it'll keep me alive. I was like, okay, well, that seems like rooted in something pretty serious, your mortality. I personally didn't get the vaccine and I'm super fucking stoked that I didn't as it has played out the way it's played out now.

1:36:10BubblemanBut holy shit, those universities, man, putting pressure on young people and really funneling and directing them to think a very particular way that in my opinion is not what I would call Overly intelligent, very limiting. And once again, just from my perspective up here in Canada, I'm not anti-university. I know that we have some great universities up here and that if you want to go for very specific things that it can be wonderful.

1:36:40BubblemanBut yeah, I definitely, yeah, Jack Spratt. Oh, go ahead.

1:36:47Dr Mark ScialdoneTo go back to the science. Yep. Science and the scientific literature shows That vaccinations work, okay? And it's a public health thing. And it only works if everyone gets vaccinated. That's how we got rid of the measles. Measles is not bad.

1:37:06SpeakerThere's not one study that shows that vaccinations are efficacious, and I'll be interested.

1:37:12BubblemanYeah, I'm not on that either. We can agree to disagree. Listen, it's not vaccine, church. We can agree to disagree. I'm happy to have long conversations with you about this. I respect your opinion. You have to respect mine. And we just got to get back to Hash Church. And this is what happens when we go down the political sort of divider pathway.

1:37:34Collin PalmerSo back to science. Sorry to interject everyone. Because I was just listening to the, you know, there's a lot of perspective here. This is awesome. And that's what makes it church. And that's why we're here. What I heard from Mark is that science is really under the gun right now. Under attack. Under attack, yeah. So that's a better analogy there. In that, you know, in the United States, we have such a capitalistic environment here that it's very puppet mastery in a way that's controlling a narrative that I don't quite understand.

1:38:13Collin PalmerI'll just be the first to maybe say it here among the group. I have some thoughts as to maybe what they're doing. But I think that when science is under attack in a capitalistic environment, that There's some things in question. I think efficacy, I think is what a lot, what I pull from Mark is really the first thing that comes to mind to me is there's no one to check upon industry and the things that they're developing and making.

1:38:41Collin PalmerAnd there's no one to oversee that from a macro lens point of view and say, hey, you can or can't do something, whatever that might be. And in a capitalistic environment, I truly believe that that could be that could lead to bad things. You know, there could lots of forests could be cut down. Lots of resources could be depleted. Things like that as low hanging fruit. As an example, oceans are not overseen.

1:39:10Collin PalmerWildlife is destroyed. Things like that come to mind. But there's a bigger sensibility, I think, from Dr. Mark that I walk away with from a research research point of view. That is really what I think I'm walking away from you. And that's hard to swallow because the progression, and this is maybe picking up on a scent that you're laying down, maybe the progression is going to be stifled in our industry as a result.

1:39:39Collin PalmerIs that fair to say? That we won't have the ability to move... The policy forward in the name of science. Is that kind of something that people put on there? So I think I'm good here.

1:39:51Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I think we've talked about a little bit on Hash Church, and that is that, you know, we thought that RFK, who was maybe, you know, not, you know, pro-vaccine, but more pro-complementary health. I mean, again, the National Center for For integrative and complementary health is the center in the NIH that's looking at the medical benefits of cannabis, okay? So the center that's saying, okay, they've recognized that Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:40:50Dr Mark ScialdonePatience. And again, I could start going through the list of...

1:40:54BubblemanThis is the NIH. Is this not the same group that only allowed you to get funding if you look for negative things on cannabis? No, no, no, no. That was NIDA. That's NIDA.

1:41:03Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat you're thinking about is NIDA. So again, like I was going through and talking about... Well, I was confusing them. All of the institutes within the NIH. So another institute that funds cannabis research is the National Institute for Arthritis and Musculoskeletal And skin diseases.

1:41:22BubblemanWas Kevin McKernan an NIH scientist or was he NIDA?

1:41:27SpeakerNo, he's private.

1:41:28BubblemanBut before that, I heard he worked as a, like that he was in government.

1:41:32Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, he worked for, he worked on a human genome project.

1:41:35SpeakerBefore that, yeah, he was at, he was actually at MIT.

1:41:41SpeakerAnd he was doing his PhD and he discovered something related to genetic sequencing and he left academia to join a private industry for his own company and he built something called the Solid Sequencer. But I think they were funded by private industry. Yeah, that's private money, not public money.

1:42:03Dr Mark ScialdoneSo another institute within the NIH that funds cannabis research is the National Institute on Deafness and Other Communicative Disorders. Another institute is the National Institute for Child Health and Human Development. Another institute is the well-known National Heart and Blood Institute. Another institute is the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke. That's where I sent my proposal for dealing with traumatic brain injury. Another institute is the National Cancer Institute.

1:42:40Dr Mark ScialdoneSo all of these institutes make up the NIH. And so when you turn off the funding to the NIH, All of these institutes are basically affected. And what that means is we hear those those institutes evaluate grant proposals from professors like me all across the country, all across the world. In fact, Marcus, you'll be glad to know that the NIH funds research in Canada. Yes, the NIH National Institutes of Health Thank you.

1:43:10Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you. Thank you.

1:43:39Dr Mark ScialdoneOur shite. Okay, okay.

1:43:42BubblemanHow can you defend it?

1:43:44Dr Mark ScialdoneMarcus, I think you're confusing two things in government.

1:43:48BubblemanThanks, Nick. Hold on, let me speak. Well, Nick's leaving and it's his first time on Hash Church and we've turned this into politics church now.

1:43:55SpeakerThank you for the work that you do stewarding Ganja. Thank you. I appreciate that. And thanks for letting me be a part of this, you guys. You know, I appreciate perspectives and stuff. I want to reemphasize kind of like the lens of trying to connect with one another and the vesica, the middle road, as being kind of the power spot. And so also trigger. Pay attention to your triggers.

1:44:20SpeakerYou find yourself super triggered, take a step back and try to figure out how to untrigger yourself. That will help, I think, a lot.

1:44:27BubblemanI like it. Wise words. Thank you, Nick. I appreciate you coming on. Yeah, thank you, Marcus. Get you on again one day soon. All right.

1:44:35Dr Mark ScialdoneTake care, Nick.

1:44:36BubblemanTake care, you guys.

1:44:38Dr Mark ScialdoneUh-oh, I'm triggered. I'm going to get you.

1:44:42SpeakerWell, we're with you. We're with you. I think we all have the same mission. And I do think judging the fruit tree by its fruit. And have we, with all of our practices, evoked the healthiest situation? Yes, if we are not finding the health that we're after and you have our administrators who I don't think have the past administrators have a vote of confidence, should we be looking to these systems that say, I'm going to inject you with a toxic substance

1:45:22BubblemanAnd you're not allowed to have this non-toxic... Yeah, like, why do people go, oh, we got rid of measles, but then totally ignore the fact that every other disease is through the fucking roof. Obesity, like, it's not to be ignored. And I don't really want to talk about this for much, much longer, but it's... OK, but it's intense. It's like we have to acknowledge America has never been unhealthier than it is today.

1:45:50Dr Mark ScialdoneI think you're confusing a couple of things, Marcus. So I think the FDA is the people who basically regulate what is allowed in food like dyes and shit like that. The CDC is the Center for Disease Control. Those are the people who try to monitor, you know, pandemic outbreaks and disease outbreaks and vaccinations and all that. The NIH, the National Institutes of Health, what that is, right, it's a funding mechanism for Thank you so much for joining us.

1:46:33BubblemanWe're just in a much better situation.

1:46:35Collin PalmerWell, I think Mark highlighted, like, I just want to say one thing. I think one thing you said, and I'm going to stop talking about this subject matter for a second because there's so much more to talk about. But the FDA, in my eyes, allows these industries to get away with the poison, right? We'll just lay that out there. And that's the issue from my perspective. Overall, it's the capitalistic mindset that we're going to replace this with that because it's cheaper.

1:47:06Collin PalmerAnd the FDA allows that. I think Dr. Mark allowing stifling the science is problematic. And I hear you loud and clear.

1:47:14BubblemanCan I also say that in October of 1992, NIDA became a part of the National Institute of Health. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:47:37BubblemanBackward.

1:47:38Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, the other thing that NIDA is big on funding these days is using cannabis as a replacement therapy for people who are addicted to opiates. So they fund a lot of studies that are looking at cannabis as a replacement for other painkillers. But the one thing about the FDA, so the FDA, there's a revolving door between The FDA, which is the government regulatory body that regulates big pharma and food and big pharma itself.

1:48:07Dr Mark ScialdoneSo big pharma executives go over to the FDA. Bingo, regulatory capture, regulatory capture. People who worked at the FDA end up getting jobs at cushy pharmaceutical companies. So there's this revolving door. Just, Ryan, in ag, in industrial ag, it is the same way with the USDA. Like the USDA, the people who regulate agriculture in the United States, Probably had jobs at one time at Cargill or, you know, I don't know.

1:48:34Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's called regulatory capture. Right. It's called regulatory capture. So there's this open door that exists between the regulatory bodies that regulate the industries they regulate. So that is an inherent problem and a lot of politics involved with that. But Marcus, again, just to go back to the NIH itself and how to separate the NIH from the Food and Drug Administration, from the CDC, from those publicly facing organizations.

1:49:02BubblemanBut don't those organizations, doesn't the NIH, like, aren't they feeding their science to those organizations?

1:49:08Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, so the NIH is the group. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:49:31Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's taxpayer money, right? So that's money that basically they are responsible for making sure that the proposals are solid and that the proposals are reviewed. And right now, With the shutdown with the NIH, they're not reviewing any new proposals. So that means no new money goes out, which has devastating effects for people who are in graduate school, who are relying on a stipend. And now there's going to be people who are going to be dropping out of graduate school.

1:50:04Dr Mark ScialdoneBasically, you're going to you're fucking up the whole system in the way that we train scientists today. And so that's why it's a very important subject for people to hear, because actually, There's something we can do about it, Marcus, and we'll stop right after this. Write your congressmen, write your senators, and let them know that shutting down the NIH is not fucking cool. They need to turn it back on.

1:50:29Dr Mark ScialdoneNow, I think like when they went through and doged people out of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and other... Essential functions in the US government. They realized a couple of weeks later, holy shit, we just let all those nuclear guys go. We better hire those guys back before we blow our shit up, right? That's right. So they are like with the tariffs, he's reversing tariffs. He's doing stuff to get that splash in the news.

1:50:54Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's just the way this guy operates. But then really down the road, I mean, there's people protesting from coast to coast on the control that these people have put over government. They've closed down Our freaking national parks, Marcus. I mean, the country's- What does that mean?

1:51:15BubblemanYou can't go to the park anymore?

1:51:16Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, but they've gotten rid of- Don't let them. They've gotten rid of all the support staff. Dr. Mark.

1:51:22BubblemanDude, I always found it hilarious when I would see the sign, the lake is closed at 5 p.m. And I just be like, what?

1:51:30SpeakerDr. Mark, I have a specific chemist question that, and this has fascinated me, horrified me, and it's a little different. And I think we're in greens with you. We want more research to be pushed forward. I think that is like some common ground.

1:51:46Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, and give the park rangers their damn jobs back. Holy shit. Yeah.

1:51:50SpeakerBut also the idea that maybe our prior course isn't the healthiest, especially referencing the nuclear and the other things. But my question for you that is chemistry oriented, I've been studying or more or less found that, um, What are called ethanol oxalates or lauryl alcohol ethanol or dodecanols or sodium lauryl phosphates. These products that are all detergents, deterring agents that come out of the petroleum industry and polyethylene cracking plants.

1:52:29SpeakerThese are the things that come, these are like the terpenes of petroleum. They come early out of the stacks where you get the oil.

1:52:42Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so yeah, propylene and ethylene, man. Yeah, the glycol. Knock on your cell phone or your iPad because the plastics that you're talking about are all in that. They're not plastics.

1:52:53SpeakerI'm talking about the detergent compounds that are placed in all the soaps, all of the toothpastes. And there are different names. Cocoglucoside is a name. Sodium lauryl phosphate is an ingredient that you'll find.

1:53:10Dr Mark ScialdoneRight.

1:53:11SpeakerTurn all of the Don.

1:53:12Dr Mark ScialdoneSodium lauryl phosphate is naturally derived, but that's okay.

1:53:15SpeakerThey're not, they're not, you can say they're naturally derived, but it is a rather perverse.

1:53:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, lauryl, lauryl comes out.

1:53:24SpeakerOkay, let me, let me get, let me get all the way through this. And, and thank you so much. Sure. Is that, uh, These things are pervasive and there are pub med, there are studies that show residue amounts are very offensive to our epithelial of our gut. And there is evidence and their main function is permeability and as a deterring agent. These are the things that are in every pesticide.

1:53:53SpeakerThese are the things that you'll find in the pesticide section of ACE Hardware. They are ever present. They're in all the cleaners, all the modern decontamination sprays that these big box stores are using, their fragrances. Okay, my main point is they're very persuasive and I would consider them in our diet. Okay, what I found is that not only do these compounds, which look like long carbon chains, they look like snakes, they look insidious, but my estimation is that they are the main smoking gun of all autoimmune disease in that they are likely getting into our bloodstream, possibly interacting with the endocannabinoid system, In a way that is plugging in, but not activating.

1:54:52SpeakerAnd so why are we seeing based on what broads based on what? Well, you're yeah, you're saying that it's these things are plugging into our endocannabinoid system based on well, I'm looking well, well, the way I'm looking at it is. This is from a nutritional standpoint. What is it? The first thing you look at is what's in the diet. And I looked at the studies that say this is offending at very least our epidermis and epithelial layer of our gut.

1:55:23SpeakerOkay. That is disambiguated, even residue amounts that might be found on dishes. And the main function of these things are detergents. So once you apply them to a dish, very hard to completely wipe it off. And if we're wearing it, okay. And again, I'm making a long hypothesis.

1:55:43Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, what's your question? You have a question? You said you had a chemistry question. What's your question?

1:55:47SpeakerYeah, the question is, is this a logical hypothesis that needs testing to you? Is that, is it possible that the pesticides, that the sodium lauryl phosphates, the things in the toothpaste, the things that we put in our mouth, Is it possible that that's causing disruption to our immune system and our endocannabinoid system?

1:56:11Dr Mark ScialdoneProbably not like other things that we're exposed to. So first of all, sodium lauryl sulfate, SLS, is soap, right? That's basically generic soap. That is made from Laurel alcohol, which is a byproduct of palm oil processing. It does not come from petroleum. So you have a misconception on that. But are they processed that way? Hold on a second. It comes out of the polyethylene. You got so much to say, dude.

1:56:38Dr Mark ScialdoneLet me talk, okay? You talked about ethoxylate. So let's talk about that for a second. Okay. So the things that do flash off of petroleum that are sort of like when you go buy an oil processing plant and you'll see the thing burning, those are volatiles that sometimes they can't fractionate. But you can get things like petroleum can can when you crack it, you make propylene and ethylene.

1:57:04Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. So let's just talk about those. So propylene is a C3 fragment and ethylene is a C2 fragment. So with ethylene, it's just CH2 doubly bonded to CH2. What they do is they oxidize that to make something called EO. That's ethylene oxide, really toxic, really dangerous to deal with. But when you polymerize EO, you make something called polyethylene glycol or PEG. You've probably heard of PEG before, right?

1:57:33Dr Mark ScialdoneA lot of these things have usually a polar head, like in a detergent, you have something like an ammonium group. And then you have a long peg chain, right? And basically these are the things that form what are called my cells, right? Which are the things when you wash your hands with soap and you see those little bubbles form, basically what's happening is that the bubble is basically denaturing some of the grease and oils that are on your hand.

1:58:02Dr Mark Scialdoneand basically getting trapped inside those because those are hydrophobic molecules and greases and they don't just you can't just run your hands under water maybe hot water hot water will start melting that stuff but the soap basically helps basically emulsify all those fats and oils right and so the point that you're bringing up like around dish You know, detergent and stuff that you use in your dishwasher or even laundry detergent.

1:58:30Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. I mean, all those things are basically cheap fucking molecules that basically have a detergent action on soap Thank you for joining us.

1:58:55SpeakerBut what about the alternative of not having taken the microbiology off of those dishes? That also has an incredibly serious health consequences. Allow me to give the solution for that because that's really important. That's what people want to know is how to, if I'm going to say I would like to remove these petroleum products from my... But Mark's just showed you that it's not petroleum. It's not petroleum, dude.

1:59:18SpeakerNot all of them. Some of them. He didn't show me. What he said was that it's... And I understand the process of what is happening. And if sodium lauryl phosphate is being cooked and denatured with acids in a way that doesn't... Involved petroleum. The effect is the same of creating a deterring agent. Like you mentioned the PEG, which is the prescription to treat. And again, I come at this from addressing immunocompromised patients.

1:59:51SpeakerAnd I discovered that one of the treatments that was being prescribed was binding agents combined with polyethylene glycol doses. So people were being told to digest large amounts of this. And to me, I started, that's where, that's how I approached this was Is this an appropriate solution to detoxify the system by offending the biome that is going to produce the immune system? The immune system starts in our gut.

2:00:28SpeakerAnd I think it is, and again, the one point of, does it come out of the polyethylene cracking plant or does it come out of some other factory? Okay, we can look into that. Okay, let me just jump to the solution. And I do think this is just important because I do think ganja is everything. It's everything we eat, everything that comes out of the garden. And I do think these are the one thing that is hurting people the most is micro amounts of these detergents.

2:01:01SpeakerSo if you want to remove something that you think is harmful from your dish, cast steel soap and warm water and mechanical Function, mechanical wiping is enough to do this. Heat treatment would be enough to remove bacterias or things like this. And the other thing is at simple acids. Well, heat treatment. No, that's like the amount of heat that you can't just say stuff like that. The amount of heat that it takes to sterilize a plate is really intense.

2:01:31SpeakerI mean, but it is a number. It's not, I mean, I do it every day with a fire. It's not efficient though. You're not, you're not, you're not cleaning your, nobody's cleaning their dishes by doing, like they do that for the argument that I value a toxic detergent to something is somehow more efficient if it's going to I think it's a good hypothesis to test.

2:02:06Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah, but I would bet you a dollar to a donut that all those studies basically show that this stuff is no more harmful than half of the other shit that we're exposed to.

2:02:20SpeakerI can send you studies right now. Well, I'll tell you one thing.

2:02:23BubblemanNo matter what, there's definitely something that's getting into the food chain, many somethings that are making people so unhealthy. That is a fact. Whatever it is, it's not that different than glyphosate. I mean, I definitely don't think you're wrong. I think there's all sorts of differences.

2:02:40Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's just, you know, high glucose corn syrup. That's what it is, right?

2:02:44SpeakerHow much plastic do you think is inside every one of you? Yeah. I can't even imagine. Plastic is the problem.

2:02:48BubblemanI can't even imagine. In my brain. Yeah. I still remain hella grateful to join all of you every Sunday. People in the chat are so funny. They love to divide us. They're like, oh yeah, Ryan, Dr. Mark, they're on the side of science. It's like we're all on the same side. We're all homies.

2:03:07SpeakerWe're allowed to disagree. No, no, no. I'm against everyone.

2:03:13BubblemanI'm calling for more science. I will say this. For I don't know how many years, maybe 30 years, Skunk Man Sam cleaned his bong with Dr. Bronner's. Every time you mention it. I was going to say. I was going to say. I was even always like, dude, what are you doing, man?

2:03:29SpeakerSometimes the old ways are the best. And it is definitely, we're in a radical state to say these synthetic detergents. That's a new thing. It's a new thing in our environment. And we, you know.

2:03:42BubblemanListen, dude, I said, I said. You know, I remember people talking about a lot of different things, even 30 years ago. Sometimes it takes, put it this way, your statement right now will either age well or poorly. In 10 to 15 years from now, people could be like, holy fuck, that guy Adam was totally talking about this 15 years before science. Or it could be like, holy fuck, that guy Adam had no idea what he was talking about.

2:04:08SpeakerAnd I'll take that bet, Mark. I'll go all in.

2:04:11BubblemanI'll take that bet. I know you do, bro, because in the end...

2:04:14SpeakerI know you already have. It's all good.

2:04:16BubblemanHe already has, yeah. Dr. Bronner is endorsed by Skunkman Sam.

2:04:21SpeakerIt is, it is. Doug Van Sam approved. There's like a couple of four-gallon jugs of it here, or four-liter jugs of it.

2:04:29Dr Mark ScialdoneDon't forget the apple cider vinegar for your laundry.

2:04:31Collin PalmerMy favorite soap in the world right there, man.

2:04:34Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd remember that isopropyl alcohol also comes from propylene, which comes from petroleum. Which is why it should be used in ethanol.

2:04:41SpeakerIt can be used in place of it across the board. As it should be, really. Isos get poo-poo. And ethylene... Ethylene is also the gas that's produced by female cannabis plants to make that promotes femaleness. And if you block ethylene, they become males. So it's all interconnected. I mean, that's the thing. It's like when you start saying chemicals, everything sounds pretty scary, but water is a chemical.

2:05:08SpeakerTHC is certainly a chemical. CO2 is a chemical. So life is just a bunch of chemical reactions happening under biology.

2:05:18BubblemanUntil you involve what Nick was talking about, the unseen, right? Because that's a whole other part of what's holding all of that into place. There's definitely an unseen. All you have to do is take some mushrooms and go to a fish show, right, Dr. Mark? And you can see some of the unseen through the lovely work of Chris Carotta and the band.

2:05:41SpeakerWell, and there's also, I think, you know, if you really get that i'm not someone that really you know understands this stuff too deeply but i saw something on quantum mechanics the other day and just you know going from the breakdown of cells and this is probably more up dr mark's um you know type of mind but when you start breaking down even atoms or these chemicals into their constituent you know you know chemical elements carbon nitrogen oxygen you can further break them down into electrons and neutrons And then further break those molecules down into quarks and, I don't know, Mark, jump in, help me out here, muons, all these different types of subatomic particles, which are really just energy, right?

2:06:32SpeakerYou know, I'm not, I'm not totally... Everything is everything. Yeah, to not, I'm not really the most mystical person, but like when you, you know, we are all these shared molecules that we pass around between us. And, you know, I think that this is an area where some of the science and some of these more spiritual things come together on like a very deep, deep molecular level.

2:06:58SpeakerAnd I don't think any of us understand what's what, but it's undeniable that, you know, we are, David used to just say this all the time, you know, we are just all stardust, right? And yeah, I mean, his daughter's name is Starchild, right? One of David's daughters has, one of her names is Starchild. But there is an interconnectivity to it all. And I don't think anybody here is against trying to minimize some of these toxic compounds, or even who knows if they're toxic, but just new compounds, right?

2:07:41SpeakerIt doesn't really matter if they're toxic or not. We're doing this massive experiment on a global scale, unfortunately. And it would be nice if we could try to have

2:07:54SpeakerYou're part of the problem.

2:08:16SpeakerUm, and that's what David did here too.

2:08:19Dr Mark ScialdoneSo speaking of new compounds to turn it back towards, there you go.

2:08:24SpeakerThere you go. I wanted to talk to you about this.

2:08:27Dr Mark ScialdoneSo there's a new compound that was identified by a group in Korea. And they gave it a name. It's called Canapiolexoa. Oxoa or some shit like that.

2:08:40BubblemanA new compound in cannabis?

2:08:41Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's a new cannabinoid, yes. It basically is a metabolite of CBDA, right? So if you take CBDA... And you oxidize it and metabolize it. That's what it is. This is not made by the plant, Brian. This is made by some fungus that live on the plant. Okay, interesting.

2:09:07SpeakerSo can you talk about cannabialsoin?

2:09:10Dr Mark ScialdoneI think that that's probably related to this. So this compound is very similar to cannabialsoin. And cannabiosoin is a metabolite of CBDA. And so what happens is an enzyme or a T cell or so T cells are super interesting because, you know, that start our cells that are in our immune system that as soon as it finds something foreign, it starts attacking it. Right. And this is one of the reasons why, again, in You know, things like COVID, there's something called cytokine storm because your immune system is getting mixed messages and it's like Jean-Luc fire all weapons.

2:09:57Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so in that fire all weapons, these T cells end up doing a lot of collateral damage in the lungs. And that's where COVID can get deadly. So what happens is T cells T cells are fucking amazing, man, because they could generate something called hydroxyl radical, which if you know about anything about chemistry, you know that radicals are extremely reactive species. Sometimes they're very short-lived because they're so reactive.

2:10:27Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd to think that a cell Thank you so much for joining us.

2:10:56Dr Mark Scialdoneresults or results of the production right when you go from cbga to thca along the biosynthetic pathway you have to suck up a mole of hydrogen right so cb cbga the precursor to thca in the plant has got one molecule of hydrogen extra if you look at its molecular weight Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:11:50Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you for joining us.

2:12:13Dr Mark ScialdoneThese microbes, or if a T cell, some type of immune cell, emits a hydroxyl radical at CBDA, it forms the epoxide At the double bond. So what was a double bond in the terpene portion of the molecule now becomes a three-membered ring.

2:12:37SpeakerWe need you to have, when you're talking about this stuff, we should be having you on a screen.

2:12:42Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, a little whiteboard right in the back. No, we should because like you. Yeah, we really should. So you can see what the epoxide looks like. So then what happens to that epoxide is one of the hydroxyls, the hydroxyl group from the ring,

2:12:56SpeakerWhy don't you bring up the molecule and share your screen?

2:13:02Dr Mark ScialdoneYou want me to share my screen?

2:13:05SpeakerOne of the maybe the only effective uses of nicotine is like a cute dose shows you mentioned the nicotinamide and the acetylcholine receptors to calm a cytokine storm. There's like, you know, basically nicotine works against the immune system and can quiet it in maybe in a different way that terpenes applied may be able to help Thank you for joining us today.

2:13:45SpeakerI think nicotine with long-term use does turn the blood and affect the T cells that Mark was mentioning, basically creates a very cancer inviting environment and changes the lymphocytes into abnormal cell builders.

2:14:06SpeakerYeah, just that, that recently saw that nicotine acutely medicinally applied may help with that cytokine storm that Mark mentioned.

2:14:16Dr Mark ScialdoneAll right, so you want me to share my screen? Let me try this. I don't know. Have I done this before? I don't know if I've done this on the iPad. You can just find like a molecular structure or even just go to Zoom.

2:14:29SpeakerYou can send it to me and I'll share it if you have an iPad. Yeah, find the molecule and just show when you're talking about a molecule.

2:14:37Dr Mark ScialdoneI'll put it in the chat here. I just made it so you could share as well. Yeah, that's okay. Anyway, it's just a fucking molecule, right?

2:14:49SpeakerRight, but it's good for, I'm talking about for the audience, so they know what you're talking about.

2:14:53BubblemanWhat chat did you send that to? Okay, hold on a second. I'm opening.

2:14:58SpeakerI think you sent it to the Zoom chat.

2:15:01Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I don't see it. I have to copy the link first. Hold on a second. I don't see it anyway.

2:15:05SpeakerJust show your screen.

2:15:06Dr Mark ScialdoneHold on, hold on. I'm opening it right now. Okay. All right.

2:15:11BubblemanOpening the user manual of the iPad.

2:15:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so I...

2:15:19Dr Mark ScialdoneLike what the fuck?

2:15:19SpeakerThe emergency checklist.

2:15:21BubblemanDude, I will tell you, coming on to Zoom on an iPad or a phone, I can't find anything. I can't find anything. It is so counterintuitive and not natural. It's the opposite.

2:15:35SpeakerI'm stuck on it right now.

2:15:37BubblemanOh, dude, I'm not like. There's so many different ways to slide and open and go and look. And I'm just like, no, I can't. I had to run Hash Church one time on my phone. Remember Sam's episode?

2:15:50SpeakerYeah, it was Sam's episode. That was the worst. All right, you want to open up that paper, Mark?

2:15:56BubblemanIt's in there. Yes, absolutely. Let me open it up and then I'll share it here. I'm just sharing the whole paper or am I sharing like a particular... Oh, there's the molecule, I think.

2:16:07Dr Mark ScialdoneJust look at the molecule itself. Yeah, the molecule is pretty cool.

2:16:10BubblemanI think that's fucking crazy. I just thought it would be helpful.

2:16:14SpeakerI just thought it would be helpful when Mark was explaining a molecule and talking about one side of the ring. Of course. He could be using his mouse over to show everybody.

2:16:23Dr Mark ScialdoneNow, click on that one, figure one, and blow that up, Marcus.

2:16:30Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, okay, so if you look at compound number one, right? See compound number one?

2:16:36SpeakerYeah.

2:16:37Dr Mark ScialdoneSo there's a couple interesting aspects about this. So you see the four-membered ring, which has got a carbon with a double bond to the oxygen, and there's a four-membered ring. It looks like a square, and it's got an oxygen in it. That one right there, yes. So that's very interesting because what happened there is the hydroxyl group on the ring form this is what we call a lactone and a four-membered ring lactone is called a beta lactone so this formation of a beta lactone i've never ever seen in a cannabinoid before so that's kind of cool the other ring so lift up to the to the thing that looks like home plate it's got like a pentagon ring with oxygen yes that ring right there is a is what we call a benzo furan ring and and that basically is is the product that you get when you add one of the hydroxyls one of the phenolic groups of cbda to the epoxide now you see the other thing that says oh mark you see the oh yeah So that O8, that oxygen there used to be the epoxide of the double bond, right?

2:17:49Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what happened is the microbe or whatever, maybe a T cell or something, formed that epoxide. And then the epoxide closed to this tricyclic structure. Actually, this is a tetracyclic structure if you include the beta-lactone. But you can still see down by the number one Marcus, there's still the double bond down there. And yes, that that group right there is part of the exocyclic methylene that's in CBDA.

2:18:20Dr Mark ScialdoneSo yeah, this is basically a CBDA So if you look just to the right of that, Marcus, you'll actually see CBDA is the compound number six, where the R group there is equal to COOH, right? That would be CBDA. So that's basically made by cannabis or hemp or whatever you want to call it. Directly next to that is compound nine, which is Delta-8. And indirectly next to that, compound 10 is CBC, And then the compound next to that is number 11 is what happens when water reacts with that epoxide.

2:19:02Dr Mark ScialdoneSo now what happens is rather than the phenol reacting with that epoxide that's formed microbially on the cyclohexene ring, now we have 208. You see the two OHs that are up there, Marcus? Yeah, those two. Those two result from opening of the epoxide now just with water. So and the compounds that are below, you'll see compounds two, three, four and five. Those those molecular structures are are are basically pigments that.

2:19:34Dr Mark ScialdoneSo this is a group of 14 people, 14 scientists in various universities in. Uh, South Korea, and this is in North Korea, right? Kim Jong-un Korea. This is the other Korea, the South Korea. And they did an ethyl acetate extraction. So close that diagram mark and go lower into the paper. Yeah. Scroll down, scroll down a little bit more, scroll down, keep going, keep going. This is our chemistry lesson for today, folks.

2:20:10SpeakerSo way better than you just talking alone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So people have something to focus on.

2:20:16Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, so the cell viability data here. So basically, what they're showing is that compound one, which is that new compound is basically killing 100% of the cells. That's pretty damn potent. That's good. But I want you to close this diagram, Marcus and scroll down even further. So scroll down further, scroll down further. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Okay, isolation of compounds. Okay, open up that scheme one right there.

2:20:48Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, blow this up just a little bit if you can. Okay, so this is really cool. So look what they did. They started with 3.2 kilograms of cannabis sativa. And they did a extraction by refluxing it with 10 liters of ethanol. This is just... So yeah, they're going to get a lot of pigments, right? Because if you take ethanol and you don't chill it, you're not going to get just extracting what's in the trichomes, but you're going to get all the...

2:21:22Dr Mark ScialdoneThis extract was probably as dark as road tar.

2:21:27SpeakerProbably golden. Golden. No, green.

2:21:30Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, this, those pigment molecules, Adam, are all dark black powders. In fact, we'll scroll up and actually show where they actually isolated some of those. And yes, they were black powders. They were basically, what happens, the reason why they turned, the reason why they're green in the plant And they turn black when you isolate them. So when you take chlorophyll out of the plant, you'll notice that the plant might be like a light lime green or like more of like a Kelly green.

2:22:04Dr Mark ScialdoneBut as soon as you extract that shit out, it turns dark because now you've taken the plant pigment out of its natural place, which is inside the chloroplast in the cell, right, where it's guarded from oxygen. And now it's basically oxidizing. And so by the time they isolated those compounds two through whatever, two through six, those things had all been oxidized. And I think without exception, they're all black powders.

2:22:31Dr Mark ScialdoneBut let's walk through this extraction scheme because it's pretty interesting. So they started with more than three kilograms of cannabis. Now, those of us who have washed and who have extracted, we know how much three kilograms, that's, you know, three kilograms is Fair amount of material. So you can see what they did is they got after doing an ethyl acetate extraction is they get about 18.9 grams.

2:22:57Dr Mark ScialdoneSo they're reducing that 3.2 kilograms just down to a 18 gram thing, which then they took on to several other different purifications. So they're just using, this is similar to CRC.

2:23:11SpeakerWhat is ethyl acetate?

2:23:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, ethyl acetate is a solvent. That's the solvent that smells like nail polish remover or bowling alley wax. Like if you've gone into a bowling alley right after they've waxed it, you'll smell ethyl acetate.

2:23:25SpeakerWhere does that come from?

2:23:27Dr Mark ScialdoneUh, ethyl acetate comes from acetic acid and ethanol, which come from, uh, uh, microbe. Those are produced microbially. Well, uh, ethanol we know is produced by yeast and, um, uh, acetic acid is a byproduct of the shikimate acid. Pathway that's used to produce vitamin C and a bunch of other shit. I mean, acetic acid is just the item of commerce. It's vinegar. Okay. So vinegar and ethanol, if you make the ester of those two compounds, you get ethyl acetate.

2:24:02Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd again, that's the stuff that if your mom ever used nail polish remover and you're like, what's that sweet smell? It was probably a combination of acetone and ethyl acetate. So it's a pretty good solvent for cannabinoids, but it's also a good solvent for all these pigments. But if you go over to the right side part of the screen, Marcus, can you highlight where it says compound one, 5.7 milligrams?

2:24:28Dr Mark ScialdoneSo this new cannabinoid from 3.2 kilograms of material, they only isolated 5.7 milligrams of that new cannabinoid.

2:24:40SpeakerWhat was their total yield of isolate?

2:24:44Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah, they're not making an isolate. They're just taking... Well, extract.

2:24:48SpeakerI mean, what's their extract?

2:24:49Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, okay, so if you go down to the bottom, you'll see that they got 29 milligrams of compound 10. I think compound 10 was the dihydroxy CBD derivative. Or no, that was compound 11, right? Compound 10 was CBC. Oh, I see.

2:25:08SpeakerOkay.

2:25:09Dr Mark ScialdoneCompound two, I believe, was CBD. Compound three, I think, was CBDA. Compound six, seven, and eight, I think, were those pigments. But this just tells you basically how they fractionated all those materials. But again, suffice to say, these are...

2:25:26SpeakerThey just did this on silica?

2:25:28Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, it says the conditions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is basically silica gel chromatography. You see above the 5.7 milligrams, Ryan, it says C18. That means it was done by reverse phase preparative chromatography. So that was purified where they took the extract precursor, which was only, um, what, um, Looks like it was at 18.9 grams. And they separated that out to give just 5.7 milligrams.

2:26:06BubblemanThey got 18 grams of extract from three kgs?

2:26:12Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, not a lot.

2:26:14BubblemanEither they were terrible at this extraction process.

2:26:18Dr Mark ScialdoneIt might not have been flour. These guys are in Korea. So if you check the cannabis laws in Korea, I mean, they have very... Like hemp laws? Like if you get caught smoking a joint, you go to jail.

2:26:31SpeakerI mean, there's like... Yeah, this is taken from CBD material clearly, right? Dr. Mark, what's the function of the... The methanol and the hexane. Yeah. So maybe ethanol doesn't.

2:26:46Dr Mark ScialdoneGreat, great. Yeah.

2:26:47SpeakerWhat do they do that ethanol doesn't do?

2:26:49Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Yeah. So that's a great question. So all these different combinations of solvent like chloroform and methanol, Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:27:23Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us.

2:27:52Dr Mark ScialdoneWith C18, it's reverse phase. So now the more polar the compound, the faster it goes through. And the reason why is because what C18 is, is it's chemically modified silica where they put C18, which is derived from oleic acid. That's a naturally occurring fatty acid. They hydrogenate that to make stearic acid. And then they use that stearic acid To basically coat the silica particles, right? So now the hydrophobic nonpolar compounds are going to stick Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:29:01Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us.

2:29:31Dr Mark ScialdoneThat are in... This material, which is over in South Korea. So God knows how old it is.

2:29:36SpeakerAnd how much is the process half baking those into existence versus them?

2:29:42Dr Mark ScialdoneThis is a bunch of scientists in the lab. This isn't like weed extractors. They don't know about CRC. They don't know about all that we know. But like the cool thing is that they looked at its cancer activity and these things are fairly active. So again, that means that when you take a whole plant extract, That has these trace components in there. You're putting things into your body that are going to fight.

2:30:09Dr Mark ScialdoneIn this case, they were looking at glioblastoma multiforme. So they were looking at huma-glastoblioma cells. And these are very aggressive cancers. Typically, by the time you find out you have glioblastoma multiforme, it's often too late. They have to just start removing sections of your brain. And my son's karate teacher, this was maybe about close to 15, 20 years ago now, passed away from glioblastoma multiforme. And he was the healthiest guy.

2:30:43Dr Mark ScialdoneThe guy used to run like two and a half, three miles every day. He was our local karate instructor at our local karate school. So he was really a very extremely healthy guy, but he did not smoke weed. He did not smoke weed. And even after he got GBM, I tried to talk to him. I was like, Hey, you know, cannabinoids can really fight GBM and, you know, you should really But his doctors didn't recommend it.

2:31:09Dr Mark ScialdoneBut this is, again, going back to the NIH previous discussion. There's people at the NIH who are funding work, helping us understand whether or not we can actually combat glioblastoma multiforme. And this stuff right here, our HHCA itself, showed activity against glioblastoma multiforme. So I mean, what we believe is that, again, maybe By consuming cannabis, what you're doing is you're putting whole extract compounds like what these Korean folks have identified into the fatty tissues of your body that include your brain, include your liver, and include your pancreas.

2:31:57Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd maybe, just maybe, there's a prophylactic effect that these compounds have to protect The fatty tissues in your body, including those organs from from succumbing to cancer like this.

2:32:13SpeakerI love it. That is the truth. This the full extra. And again, you said smoking. I do think there is because that's where people mainly go is the smoking. And I do think it in the dietary putting these compounds, you know, in the gut where they Your body would be making the 2-AG and anandamide that then go to your immune system that then encourage the apoptosis. So I do think that like very much delivering it through the stomach or a tincture, getting it in them is very valuable.

2:32:48SpeakerI think.

2:32:49Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, and also the pigments too, Adam. I mean, for most of us, yeah, most of us cannabis purists, I mean, we like it in more purified form, like a good live resin or diamonds or things that basically don't have any of the pigment in there at all in fact in the process we usually remove pigment and remove things that are highly colored because you know we we want what is it with humans and white powders i don't know man we just i mean i heard don't no white powders used to be the heady rule but this you know this resent this is full body and this resembles fire to me this resembles sun yeah Well, you know, the yellow color and the golden color in there is probably due to not cannabinoids.

2:33:37Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's probably due to flavonoids. Flavonoids are highly colored.

2:33:42SpeakerIt is beautiful flavor. And I did pass this cold, cold ethanol through a ceramic filter. You know, but I do recognize that if I was going to present the body with everything the plant has, eating those lipid, eating the skin of the resin head may have value. Right.

2:34:03Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, those lipids are chemically very similar to the compounds that you were talking about earlier, like sodium lauryl sulfate is a lipid. It's basically a long chain hydrocarbon with a polar head that can form a self-assembled micelle because, you know, the yin and yang of Hydrophobic, hydrophilic, basically these things self-assemble into these micelles. And that's also the nature of, I know we've talked about it before, Marcus, liposome technology is similar to micelles because what liposomes are, are kind of like, rather than a three-dimensional sphere, which is kind of like the way that we approximate what a micelle is, a liposome is a donut, right?

2:34:49Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's kind of like this circular thing where it's just kind of like, you know, kind of like, Self-assembles into this crazy thing. And yeah, these things are great vehicles for cannabinoids because cannabinoids aren't water soluble, right? You ever try cutting your bong out with water? Doesn't work too well, right?

2:35:08SpeakerSo- Dr. Mark, that's what triggered my intuition that the detergents were offending the system that we want, we are looking to edify. And that specifically what you're calling These neural transporters or the presence of the lipid in the presence of the terpene being a mover and the product of the endles and phenols in the gut with a healthy diet. And in the plant with a healthy plant like this, this connection, that's kind of how I got there was what is edifying the immune system and then what could possibly be offending it and dampering it.

2:35:52SpeakerAnd so that's that was there.

2:35:55Dr Mark ScialdoneThere might be something to that. And the increase and rise of autism might be related to that somehow. I mean, I think there could be a lot of Epidemiological studies, again, funded by the NIH to basically try to figure this shit out because the environment we live in is a very complex biological mechanism. Our bodies are very complex biological mechanisms. We have to coexist just like those trees and those nitrogen loving soil microbes that are in the soil.

2:36:27Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, there's there's we're we're just a cog in the wheel here, man, like Maybe the ultimate expression of humanity is the fact that, you know, humans, yeah, created things, synthetic things here that weren't made naturally, right? And you think about these so-called forever compounds like PFOA and PFOS and all that stuff, right? That stuff was not here until... You know, companies made these things thinking that they were going to be useful in various products.

2:37:05Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, if you had a Big Mac, Between the years 1965 and 1985, the wrapper that that Big Mac came in was just coated with that forever molecule. So it's in our bloodstreams. They don't degrade. A million years from now, the only thing that will be left are these compounds because they don't degrade in the environment.

2:37:30SpeakerAnd they become volatile. They spray them on the food in California. It warms up. They become volatile. They become aromatic. They travel. They find them at the polar ice caps. They can do something. This persistence is the problem is why they bioaccumulate. And again, to me, the large solution is stop poisoning our system.

2:38:00Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, I mean, that's again one of the things that, you know, the public policy that our government ought to be doing to protect our country and the environment is making sure that we have the brightest and best people working on these very complex problems. And it can only work on those problems if they're funded, right? So the funding that we get from our government helps us say, okay, these compounds should have never been produced, should have never been released into the environment.

2:38:29Dr Mark ScialdoneBut now that they're there, we need to fund the scientific research to understand how we can mitigate these problems and how we can solve these very complex problems. Not just having to do with forever chemicals, but like with energy. And with agriculture and ultimately, again, when you're talking about having to feed more people on this planet with less irritable land, hemp starts to make a whole lot more sense here for several reasons.

2:39:02Dr Mark ScialdoneThe most biggest reason is the amount of protein per acre you can get from hemp versus the next thing down, which is soybeans. But now you're talking about taking on the likes of industrial ag Like Archer's Daniel Midland and Cargill and Bungie and all these huge mega industrial ag companies that have a lot of money and a lot of political influence on the... Well, that's why hemp didn't bump them off at all.

2:39:33BubblemanHemp just became bougie. It's 20 bucks a liter for the oil. Like who could fucking afford that? Like that's expensive.

2:39:39SpeakerCheaper than motor oil, you know?

2:39:42Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, but, you know, so at some point, Mark, if you think of it like this, that like if you're needing to feed livestock and you need protein feed, it's like protein per acre. So right now, soybean is somewhere like around 385 pounds of soluble protein per acre. With hemp, they think that the estimates are somewhere in the around a thousand. So it's like three times better. And guess what?

2:40:14Dr Mark ScialdoneYou don't need genetically modified hemp plants. You don't need to apply A canopy of pesticides and all other kinds of fucking shit. But now again, you're taking on huge financial interests that have been basically invested into keeping soybeans as the king for protein production. When it comes down to it, protein per acre, if you're a farmer and you need to feed livestock, all you want is yield.

2:40:47Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you for joining us today.

2:41:07Dr Mark ScialdoneIs that you'll get seed crushing operations coexisting with paper and processing mills similar to the way that lumber mills and paper mills kind of exists, right? So what happens? You mow all those trees down in Canada, then they bring it to a lumber mill, right? They slice it up into two by fours to send down to Los Angeles for the Home Depot, right? And then when all of those, all the sawdust and all the bark and all the crap, that all gets basically pulped into paper and pulp.

2:41:40Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the way that the paper and pulp industry exists, coexists with the lumber industry right now. I think what we'll see when hemp takes the place of soybean as being the protein of choice is that now we'll get seed crushing operations, right? Which is, you know, again, capital investment, Thank you for joining us.

2:42:18Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, at the end of the day, dude, it's going to be food that drives hemp. We need more food on this planet. We need to feed more people. And the red meat diet needs protein because those cows do not produce lysine. They need to eat lysine. So they need lysine from basically protein. Plant amazing fodder. Well, and there's all kinds of different economic drivers, but ultimately everyone has to eat, right?

2:42:49Dr Mark ScialdoneNot everyone smokes weed, but everyone has to eat, right? So ultimately I think the driver for hemp taking over and I'm going to, I'm talking about, I'm not talking about high CBD, you know, drug variety hemp type three cannabis. I'm talking about phenola hemp, like what's grown up in Canada.

2:43:09BubblemanSo and Compulpe.

2:43:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYes.

2:43:14Collin PalmerI think, Marcus, you know, you went through this with with Manitoba Harvest and, you know, the the your time with that was really early. Right. And you saw this idea of of, hey, how do we use this for fiber? How do we use this for seed and heartlets and things that went, you know, more utilitarian and more, as Dr. Mark said, Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:43:37Collin PalmerI'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here.

2:44:03BubblemanRight. Because the cotton, Ginny, like it got it's it got started so early and it opened up cotton. And then there was this multi decades of growth to get to where we are today. Hemp, all of that was just buried. And so there was no like, you know, industry moving forward for hemp and just to do fiber, to do cloth, to do like paper. Those are Major investments.

2:44:30BubblemanThe seed was a little bit less so because it was like, well, let's just grow for seed. We'll figure it out. We grew for seed for like four years or something, three years before they changed the law to experimental where you could actually grow for profit. But I do want to take a little break. We can get right back to this conversation because it's wonderful and great.

2:44:53BubblemanBut I want to give away a pack of rosin screams that the Press Club was kind enough with their sponsorship today to offer to give away. So I am just going to go and share this page here of the giveaway. Looks like we only have 78 entries. I don't know if I fucked up how I did this. There should be 300 entries because we have over 300 people in chat and everyone's typing.

2:45:15BubblemanBut if you want to type a word, like maybe you think you haven't typed a word in the last 15 minutes, that's the longest amount of time I can get to keep someone in. Otherwise, I'd put an hour. So yeah, if you type real quick here, you can see even on the page there, there's a big John at the bottom. There was a couple that got... Removed because they hadn't typed for over 15 minutes, but I'll just give it a few minutes and then we'll give away these bags from the Press Club.

2:45:44BubblemanYou can check them out at thepressclub.co. They are also in the chat room right now so you can talk to them. Good guys, good little family operated small business that's been rocking and rolling since 2016 and they he definitely sent me a very nice email originally telling me about how inspired he was by Hash Church and You know, his story about how he got into a lot of this stuff.

2:46:10BubblemanAnd so it's always nice to see the full circle come around and people that were inspired maybe over 10 years ago or nine, eight years ago are now, you know, a part of helping and hooking us up. Any questions hit us up, they say. 116 entries. Well, it looks like people are waking up now. Like I said, please, when I do these entries, the worst thing is luckily you don't have to worry about me shipping this, although I did ship T-Man's Puffco last week.

2:46:43BubblemanThat got shipped out. My wife shipped it out, I should say. But I'm the worst. I can be a flake sometimes and things can sit on my desk for a long time. So how I'm doing sponsorship giveaways is they are responsible. It's their brand. It's their name. Why should I let them take the chance on sending me something and then me giving them A bit of a bad name by, you know, it's always a bummer when a giveaway turns into a bummer because it's been seven weeks and you still haven't got the thing you were promised to win.

2:47:12BubblemanHow are you enjoying your Puffco, by the way, Dr. Mark? Did you get a Puffco? Yeah. Oh! There they are.

2:47:17Dr Mark ScialdoneThe XL, baby.

2:47:19BubblemanThere they are. Dude, that's awesome.

2:47:23Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much, Marcus. I appreciate your generosity and friendship and kindness I thank Roger and you on a group text. And yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, I, I, I, I'll, I'll be honest, man. When that arrived in the mail, I had no idea what it was. I totally forgot that I gave you my address, but I got really choked up. I'm like, wow, man, these guys care about me so much.

2:47:53Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, I've been, I've been rocking this guy for a couple of years now, but they care about me so much to give me new stuff. I haven't broken it out yet. It's still in its wrapper, but I will. And I wanted to show everyone I just made some nice HHCA and I'm using some gelato turps here with it.

2:48:15BubblemanHe's got everything deconstructed like a chef. Well, dude, listen, all that thanks goes to Puff Co., Really, they are the kind ones. So shout out to Puffco for sponsoring and hooking everyone up on Hash Church.

2:48:31Dr Mark ScialdoneMarcus, that one episode that we had like maybe like about, I don't know, three or four months ago where you had Roger on for the first time in a while. That was the first time Roger and I had connected in like six years. And so, yeah, it was so cool because I consulted with them early on before they really blew up.

2:48:48BubblemanI know, dude, that's such a cool story. Well, yeah, the science.

2:48:51Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, and he reached back out to me because he recalled like, you know, our time that we spent together and it was really fun. So yeah, it was really cool to kind of reconnect on Hash Church. That was fun.

2:49:06BubblemanAll right, well, I'm going to do this giveaway. It looks like 126 entries. Choose the winner. It looks like that is so funny. John Burfellow official.

2:49:17SpeakerIt's rigged or he's got his A.I. going on.

2:49:21BubblemanThat is hilarious that Johnny B. No, that's that's amazing. Johnny really deserves that shit, dude. I mean, you guys are seeing this, right? Like, you see this on the screen.

2:49:33Johnny BThat's amazing, man.

2:49:36BubblemanOut of 128 people, it chose Johnny fucking B. And here's the thing. I bet you there's not a person in chat who won't be so stoked, even though they're all saying it's rigged, who won't be so stoked that Johnny B won. Johnny fucking B. I'll tell you one thing. From the press club's perspective, you couldn't have asked for a better fucking person to win your free bags because he'll do a YouTube video on that shit.

2:50:01BubblemanHe'll do a whole review and process some hash and fucking A, man. Johnny B, well, you know what? I don't need his address because I fucking know it. That is so funny. I'm just like, I would have never in a million years. Guest that it would have chosen Johnny B. And I'll tell you something. Johnny is a moderator in my room. And originally, I didn't have the moderator button clicked.

2:50:28BubblemanAnd then I thought, well, why can't the moderators win? Why is that? I have unique winner, which is set up so that once you win, you don't win again. So I have that set up on it. But I clicked the button for this one that moderators, because I thought, well, Bingo and Chimera, these guys are all super helpful, like awesome people. There's no reason why. It's totally transparent.

2:50:47BubblemanI'm not choosing them. And it actually chose fucking Johnny B. Congratulations, Johnny B. It is well-deserved. Yeah, totally well-deserved, dude.

2:50:59SpeakerYeah, Johnny is a classy character. He can be pretty hyper, but he is... 100% integrity in heart.

2:51:08BubblemanYes, yes. He means no harm at all. That is awesome. Well, we'll have to get him in here to talk about his big win. Fucking awesome, dude. I sent him a text message. Oh, we got the dog. We got the dog. I was wondering where the puppy was all Sunday morning.

2:51:28SpeakerI was like, maybe two weeks from now. It could be a could be a hash church winner of one of the Wolf Mountain of Charka Caucasian Shepherds.

2:51:38BubblemanDude, those dogs are beautiful.

2:51:40SpeakerIt looks like a cat person, but I thought he might accept some of my ideas easier if I brought a cuter messenger. Get that dog vaccinated.

2:51:53SpeakerThat's fucking hilarious, dude. It's so funny. I think I did want to love you guys. I did want to mention the hemp fields and just even the idea of like, you know, fast growing carbon sequestering crop and like, you know, seeds or. I would love bushels of hemp seeds that I could proliferate and use to green up the world. This is a this is a thing that the more that becomes accessible to people, even sprouting them, taking them as fodder for the cattle and sprouting them and creating an enzyme rich feed that isn't just the proteins.

2:52:38SpeakerI think this is such there's such a cool use for it just in the seed. I have a glulam rafter in my house, and these are compressed wood with glues, the nasty urea-based polys. But it is something being used. A lot of the houses and building materials are glued together these days. And I could see having compressed hemp stock replacing the need for a lot of the timbers that are taken out of the forests.

2:53:14SpeakerYeah, something that's extremely regenerative. Johnny B, congratulations. Couldn't have happened to a freaking better head. Look at you.

2:53:23Johnny BI'm just like, I'm sitting here doing a dab and I'm like playing chat and I jump in here and roll a thing and I have my name comes up and I'm like, are you kidding me? This is like, I appreciate all you guys, me listening this morning. Just so much love you guys. And just, wow. You know, I love it. You know, the universe was meant to be.

2:53:44BubblemanThat's awesome. It was, dude, when I saw the name, I had to read it like three times in a row. I was like, the official Johnny Barfello? What the fuck? Johnny B1? I didn't even see you in chat, dude. So awesome. I'm glad. I'll get your address off to Jeffrey over there, and I will make sure that maybe I come over when you film your review on it.

2:54:10BubblemanWell, if I can. You've got a rosin press. I know that.

2:54:14Johnny BYeah, it's just... He hasn't been sitting there for a long time.

2:54:19BubblemanJust sitting in his living room for months. You should plug that fucking thing in, dude. It's a disservice to have a piece of equipment like that and not use it. Like a year. Yeah, like a year. Insult to injuries. Are we puffing or is just Dr. Mark puffing? I'm puffing.

2:54:33Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's going on here? Motherfuckers.

2:54:37Johnny BYou know what? I got this blueberry smashed and this is like... Wow.

2:54:44BubblemanIt's almost gone. I keep. Dude, I've been enjoying the sauce, Ross and Lab. Shout out to those guys again, man. They hooked me up with like five or six flavors, the poison OG and the grease bucket and the bubble gum. Their grease bucket and bubble gum is truly spectacular. Every time I open the jar and smell it, I literally in my mind go, wow. Which is just like, isn't that what cannabis is about?

2:55:10BubblemanDon't you want to be doing... Brian knows what I'm talking about. He's got the wows over there. He knows. It's all about the wow, Brian.

2:55:19Bryan Best Friend FarmsThe wow factor.

2:55:20BubblemanDude, I'm telling you. And it was also, funny enough, it was something that people would say and do. Well, I called it originally the eyebrow raise, but the first time in the late 90s when I was pulling bags and showing people and almost every single person, in fact, every single person, Was seeing it for the first time. And so it was this kind of as the bag came out of the water and the the the resin would kind of form almost, you know, and then I'd kind of start doing this with the bags and make a little little poo nugget out of it.

2:55:51BubblemanPeople would just be like their eyebrows would go up. They'd be like, wow. It's like exactly, man. That's all we're talking about when we talk about in our snobby way of what we think the best is and. In regards to breeding and processing and growing and all of these different things, it's really just about delivering an unadulterated version of that wow that the plant is producing in whatever we do.

2:56:16BubblemanSo that's where I'm coming from anyway. I'm about to take a dab. Join me if you got one. You can hear my dab right pro in the background. Go ahead, Brian.

2:56:24Bryan Best Friend FarmsTalking about those two-week terps. And on the plan and into the breeding, I was kind of wondering what people are seeing out there these days for like, you know, new strain, new plants, new breeding they've acquired or of their own, you know, audience or people here, anything really striking anyone? Just wondering.

2:56:48BubblemanWell, I know Chimera's got that Linalool dominant stuff going on that's being sold in Canada, which is making waves. I know that we talked about Selina Dyeen with Johnny from Huckleberry Farms, which also seemed very unique and kind of off the beaten path. I've mentioned it more than a few times that I think, well, I was talking to Terry the other day from Hash and Flowers. What a great fucking character he is.

2:57:13BubblemanReal flavor chaser character. You know, he's real, but he's old school. And I was kind of trying to tell him, you know, in fact, Ryan, I told him, I want to hook you guys up because I think there's real value for you guys in being connected and knowing one another. He's got some of the best cuts. He's had some of the most flavorful and tasty rosins that I've ever tasted anywhere in the world.

2:57:37BubblemanHis honey bananas was beyond wow factor. Like people, everyone that said they had honey bananas, it was like, uh, Like a one or a two or a three. I maybe saw a couple of fives. His was like a 9.8, 9.9. Like literally make your eyes water. Just like explosive flavor profiles. He has, he's in Humboldt. He's in there. He's growing outdoors and he's growing, you know, organically and with his, you know, teas and living soils and whatnot.

2:58:05BubblemanBut he's just got, he's got a flair, I think, for finding unique and novel things. And he's also got a place, Where he's creating a space for those things to kind of come into existence. And although they're rare, I think that, you know, with a guy like him finding those things with his olfactory and his wisdom and his knowledge, and a guy like you doing the breeding work, the science that needs to be done to actually capture it.

2:58:35BubblemanAnd I hope that you and Johnny from Huckleberry Farms hook up as well and I mean, honestly, dude, if I were you, I would be hooking up with all of these guys that, like Brian, who just, they have this ability, this specialized olfactory and an ability where they're growing and cracking seeds and bringing things into existence that, you know, it would be good if we could trap more of those things and not let them disappear into the ether.

2:59:02BubblemanAbsolutely. That's something I was thinking about.

2:59:04Bryan Best Friend FarmsWho is this you were mentioning, Marcus? Who's this elder head that you were mentioning?

2:59:10BubblemanThat was Terry from Hash and Flowers. So he wanted to name his company High as Fuck. But they wouldn't let him do it, so he was like, well, what's HAF? He was like, oh, Hash and Flowers. So it's Hash and Flowers, but to anyone that actually knows Terry, it's high as fuck. So Terry is the guy that punched out Professor Sif, one of the first legends in Los Angeles, because I guess he was working with him and grabbed his honey bananas cut, that was the alleged offense, and then he won Legends of Hash with it, so it was...

2:59:44BubblemanThat was a whole drama that happened at the first Legends. I only got told about it by Addison. I did meet that next year in Barcelona, both Professor Sift and Terry. Both of whom seemed really nice. I mean, I spent less time with Professor Sift. I spent a lot of time with Terry, and I immediately just saw Terry as one of these. He just reminded me of, like, he's like a special energy.

3:00:11BubblemanLike, he's like, this guy needs to be protected at all costs. He's special. You know, he's reminded me of my mentor back from Winnipeg, Ron, and he's got little bits of Skunk Man in him, and he's just... Yeah, it's just, I think as I get older, I start recognizing this particular thing. And I think it's almost an unseen thing in heads and certain heads. And when you see that value, like, wouldn't it be nice to figure out a way to harness it?

3:00:45Collin PalmerBrian, I got these for you. What do you got? This is a Rainbow Z OGKB times Angria.

3:00:55BubblemanHold it in front of your body or we can't see it. Your white shirt. Yeah, exactly. You pull it down. When you were holding it up, I was like, he's going to give him an empty pot? Cool camo print. Totally cool camo print. Here, let me open it up.

3:01:08Collin PalmerAnd then this is... OGKBZ times OG, BX times Sour. Um, sour Z and this is, uh, this is, this is for you as well. And then this is, uh, grapes and cream times the same, uh, same mother. So this is great.

3:01:32Bryan Best Friend FarmsLove to try those out.

3:01:34Collin PalmerYeah. I'll get these over to you. I've got a bunch, bunch of other stuff too. I just got the lemon G back as well. Okay. Love to give that to you. It's a fantastic B1 stock to work with for those lemon herbs.

3:01:48Bryan Best Friend FarmsDo some trading. Some nice cloning here.

3:01:51Collin PalmerYou need to trade. You know how it goes, brother.

3:01:55Bryan Best Friend FarmsI'd love to.

3:01:56SpeakerSounds amazing. What kind? Talking about those, Johnny B.

3:02:03BubblemanEvery two hours.

3:02:06Johnny BI've been doing it for years. Gotta do it. Peak State.

3:02:09BubblemanPerfect.

3:02:11SpeakerI love that. Talking about the flavors that are current, you know, we started with Nick talking about his coffee that came to Wolf Mountain. And that went into two things. One was a very mercine dominant line. Dr. Justin Marchegiani, MD, M.D., M.D., M.D., M.D., M.D., M.D.

3:02:45SpeakerWe've got a couple more questions. We've got a couple more questions. We've got a couple more questions.

3:03:01SpeakerThat storm. And I just thought that that was really cool. Not, of course, non-toxic doesn't have the negative effects of the nicotine. So I just learned that, that caryophylline is, you know, a place to look if people have immune issues that they need to modulate. It binds to CB, but it's beta caryophylline binds to CB2. CB2. They actually call it a dietary cannabinoid.

3:03:29SpeakerThe guy named Jörg Gersch, ICRS member a bunch of years, showed that it was a CBT receptor. And I actually just bought like a three month supply of it for a friend of mine that has ulcerative colitis back in the States. She was having a bit of a flare up and they sell it here as like a liposomal capsule here in Europe.

3:03:53SpeakerIt's like there's some evidence in mice, at least in mice, they have a Like a chemically induced model of ulcerative colitis. And they've used beta-caryophyllene in that model. I read that article. Yeah. Because there's also, CB2 is also present on immune cells, right? So a lot of these times, like this kind of inflammation is actually autoimmune. It's like your immune system itself attacking a joint or, you know, some kind of biological process that's causing the inflammation.

3:04:29BubblemanDr. David Allen and I have a show called Cannabis Journal Club and he covers some of this stuff. I know he has interest in bringing you in, Ryan Lee, as well as Dr. Mark. He has different shows that he wants to do with you guys as well. So we'll have to make that happen here in the near future.

3:04:47SpeakerCool, cool. I think there's a reason why these varieties are so delicious to us and maybe like, oh, there's a preference I have to blazing that flavor. And it is because it assimilates so well and it maybe pushes towards medicinal.

3:05:04BubblemanIt's an interesting concept to look at. Am I liking this because my senses are telling me I like it? Or is there a lot more going underneath of what the senses are plugged into where they know? Like I always thought, When women got pregnant and they would have strange cravings, I always thought it was like a pregnancy intelligence that was telling them things they needed to put into their body.

3:05:27BubblemanAnd maybe those things didn't make sense next to one another, like the classic pickles and ice cream or whatever. But perhaps they were requiring things in their body that the fetus needed to grow. And that's why they were having these cravings. I wonder if our desires are connected.

3:05:45Speaker100%. I believe that they are.

3:05:46BubblemanSo if they are, then the science that we were talking shit about earlier, that's the science we're talking shit about. The science that convinces you poisonous, toxic chemicals are delicious should fucking disappear off of this planet. Because that's affecting the most.

3:06:05SpeakerWell, it's not science. Like you said the other day, that's commercial. That's industry. That's commercialization. That's capitalism.

3:06:11BubblemanYeah. Right. It is. It's video science. Science, I guess. Like the invention of these. You know, like, it's like, oh, I know this is not real, or that this is not really delicious, but it's just telling, it reminds me of that scene in The Matrix where he's ratted everyone out and he's all, he just wants to get back into The Matrix at this point.

3:06:31SpeakerSo he can have his steak?

3:06:32BubblemanYeah, he's eating the steak and he's like, I want to be someone famous.

3:06:36SpeakerOh, my God. I want to be in someone important like a movie star. That's poignant because that is what the body needs. You know, the pregnant woman needs electrolytes in the salty pickle and short chain fatty acids in the ice cream. These are building blocks. And that's like there was a bit of the red meat. That is the essential thing. Building Block, the amino acid. And so they're eating the gruel, the amino acid soup bath on the straight up the Kinezer.

3:07:08SpeakerBut he'd rather have the mouth pleasure with it. So, I mean, my mouth's watering right now. We're going to carry off a lean on my. You just want the woman in red.

3:07:22BubblemanThe woman in the red dress. Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress? It was such a good fucking movie.

3:07:29SpeakerWell, listen, we know enough. I mean, I believe it. I mean, look, we just said it's known through science that, again, like beta-caryophyllene binds to CB2. Linalool breaks down into one of the linalool metabolites binds to the GABA receptors, right, which is the same receptor system that benzodiazepines bind to. And cause like anti-anxiety relief in the body. So there's, you know, and I've seen it with enough people and we've heard, you know, Marcus, you've heard, how many people have you heard that just don't, can't do the hazes?

3:08:06SpeakerIt makes them squirrely, right? Like even Zeus, the dude that was behind the P-19, like apparently he was always all whacked at weirdo, turpidly, heady kind of weird guy.

3:08:19SpeakerAnd it just it works for some people or it doesn't. Right. And, you know, I remember even Charlie Garcia telling me that, like, he's couldn't handle the tremendous varieties made him too weird.

3:08:33BubblemanYeah, it definitely there's no doubt about that, that it that it has the effect on certain people that it makes them weird. Was that Cuban haze crossed with African haze? I'm not sure. Brian was holding up a seed pack.

3:08:49SpeakerIs terpenylene like almost like the end of the, is it like a half-baked version of these terpenes? Is it like the end of the chain? Like does the myrcene and linalools, do these things like progress and change into other flavors? Like is the sweet, is the sweet that like ganja presents due to the fact that like these different, All of these different types of terpenes can exist and eventually recompose into somewhat novel flavors that, yeah, is terpenylene... No, okay, so, like, there's, remember, scent is an orchestra, okay?

3:09:31SpeakerSo what we perceive as scent is really like, it's like a cocktail of all these different chemicals, right? So terps are one layer of the chemicals, but there's also... You know, these esters and there's thiols and these like garlicky notes, right? Like there's all these different compounds that can be kind of layered together. So I kind of think of them as ingredients, but the terpene profile, the terpenes themselves are really inherited in what we call profiles, right?

3:10:02SpeakerAnd so there's only so many archetypes of terpene profiles that exist and everything, all the different varieties really fit into those different archetypes. So, um, it just depends on how, how deep you want to break it down. But I think that we're going to keep learning about scent too. Like there's stuff, there's pieces of the puzzle that we still haven't learned. And terpenylene, like the, this is the Jack.

3:10:29SpeakerThis is that, uh, train wreck style flavor. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, it's got kind of a piney scent, even though it's, you know, it kind of smells like, uh, Well, what was the comparison I always use is like Mr. Clean, Mr. Clean, Pine Salt. And I think like the pining and, you know, the way that the pine trees don't permit anything to grow around it. I think this idea of like a clean industrial cleaner and that being applicable if you need to.

3:11:01SpeakerPine trees do that through acidifying the soil. Like that's why they drop all their needles under the soil and their needles are highly acidic. It acidifies the soil and makes it very inhospitable for other organizms. That makes sense. I guess maybe I'm tying into the antimicrobial of the pining and that the similarity of the pine salt to the terpenylene and just like maybe it having a function that is cleansing.

3:11:32SpeakerListen, have you looked at the chemical structure of terpenes? Yes, a little bit. You mean just the compound shape? Yeah, like if you go, like if you, like if someone can pull up on their computer, I'm sorry, I'm on my phone, so I can't do it today. I would otherwise. Yeah, you'll see that. Do you like terpenylene?

3:11:52Dr Mark ScialdoneHere, let him finish so I can search for it.

3:11:57SpeakerI was going to say, pull up a picture of terpenylene chemical structure and then one of limonene chemical structure and see if you can find the same website for both so that they do the same type of drawing. But you'll see, like, I mean, monoterpenes, they all have the same number of carbons and hydrogens, right? They're relatively simple. What do they mark? C5H10? Is that what it is?

3:12:21Dr Mark ScialdoneThat makes a lot of sense that the C5H10 is isoprene, right? And that, so a hemiterpene is just one molecule isoprene, and that's C5. But when you combine two C5s to get a C10, now you have monoterpene. Sesquiterpenes would be 15, right? And then the next one is a diterpene.

3:12:46SpeakerSo sesquiterpenes are essentially one and a half monoterpenes, the way I think of it. You're right, isoprene is the base unit, but the monoterps are C10H, what is it, C10H16, is that what it is? But yeah, like if you see, there you go, like if you see limonene and terpenylene, they're very close, it's just that one of the double bonds is in a different spot. That's right.

3:13:12SpeakerAnd so...

3:13:17SpeakerI don't know what your exact question is because you were also talking about like is terpenylene the end of the chain. Terpenylene is a very dominant, it's a dominant terpene profile. So if you cross two plants together and one of them is terpenylene, most of the plants are going to come out, if not all of them are going to come out looking like terpenylene dominant.

3:13:35BubblemanWhat was the other one you wanted me to search?

3:13:38SpeakerLimonene.

3:13:39Dr Mark ScialdoneLimonene. Yeah, Marcus, bring that diagram back up again. Let me point out.

3:13:44SpeakerI will in one second. Let me just state the question clear for Mark and Master Ryan. It's basically, are there beginning... Dominant terps that then the more nuanced sweets become. Like do the sesquas emanate from the monos and like how is that chain and what are the... They're built from the same building blocks and then there's essentially an enzymatic cascade that happens depending on the genetics of that particular plant.

3:14:16SpeakerSo some plants have the ability to hydroxylate terpenes, for example, and make like linalool, right? Like linalool is a hydroxylated terpene, monoterpene. Not terpene, it's a terpenoid.

3:14:31Dr Mark ScialdoneTerpenoid, sorry, yeah. So terpenes, strictly speaking, are just the ligaments of isoprene, which is just hydrocarbon, right? And you hit it right, yeah, C5H10. So here's the thing, like when you're looking at the structure of limonene, It has a exocyclic methylene. So the double bond down at the bottom of the structure, if it migrates to make, um, So it could isomerize to make terpenylene. Terpenylene is now a tetrasubstituted double bond, which is thermodynamically more stable.

3:15:07SpeakerOkay, but slow down on the eggheadism. Try to let people know what that means in the context of this picture. Okay, so we've got a double bond on the bottom right side.

3:15:18Dr Mark ScialdoneBottom right side will isomerize to give terpenylene if it's heated up. So just thermally, you're basically pushing these molecules uphill. And when they roll downhill, they don't necessarily end up at the place they started at because the tetra substituted double bond that's in Uh, terpenylene, where the double bond is in between the hexagonal ring, which is a cyclohexene ring. And now this two carbon tail is now a Tetra substituted double bond, which is thermodynamically more favorable.

3:15:58Dr Mark ScialdoneSo just to answer, to answer Adam's question, you're absolutely right. So if given the opportunity, limonene, With a little bit of heat, a little bit of light, and a little bit of acid stimuli can basically isomerize over to terpenylene. You will not get the reverse reaction because the reverse reaction is not thermodynamically favored.

3:16:25SpeakerThese things aren't done by chemistry in the plant. They're done by enzyme, right?

3:16:31Dr Mark ScialdoneDone by curing of the plant, done by its exposure to air.

3:16:35SpeakerNo, no, no, that's not, no, no, no, because terpenylene, terpenylene is a dominant terpene profile. Essentially anything that you cross to terpenylene becomes terpenylene dominant.

3:16:46Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd the reason is there's got to be... Limonene can make terpenylene, but I'm saying that you can convert limonene Can convert over to terpenylene. Now you were talking about myrcene before. If myrcene reacts with a molecule of water, it makes either linalool Thank you for joining us.

3:17:25Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. So those, if you look at those two structures, geraniol and linalool, you'll see that they're just isomers of each other, depending on where the water reacts to make the hydroxyl group. They're all acyclic, right? Are they not? Yes, they are.

3:17:44SpeakerThey're monoterpenes as well. They have the same number of carbons and hydrogens as limonene and terpenylene, but they have no ring structure to them. That's correct. Right. So people can go and it's an interesting little exercise for people that are in the chat and you'll want to learn about terpenes. Go to Google, type in the name of the terpene and then type chemical structure.

3:18:08BubblemanWell, you can see them side by side here. I flipped them around. So terpenylene and limelene are right next to each other. Nicely done. Yeah.

3:18:16SpeakerSo yeah, you can see the terpenylene has the double bond between the benzene ring and the little tail.

3:18:23Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd on the other, on the limonene, it's not like that. Now the other thing to show here, Ryan, is that where you have the limonene on the left-hand side, you'll see that hashed double bond. It's great to talk about hashed double bond or hashed bonds on hashed church, right? So you see the thing that looks like a staircase? Right, Marcus, point to that. You see the thing that looks like a staircase?

3:18:47Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, that right there. So what that means pictorially is that that group goes into the plane of the computer screen, right? So that means that that's an asymmetric center. That means that there's a hydrogen That's coming out. That's not drawn on the molecule for clarity, but that this molecule basically goes into the computer screen. So on the right hand side with terpidylene, you don't have any stereochemistry there at all.

3:19:16Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the shapes of the molecules are different because of this carbon that's on Limonene that basically is what we call a chiral center. So it's an asymmetric carbon because it's like a pivot. Right. When carbon has four different groups on it, that means you could have an R isomer and its mirror image, which is the S isomer. In this particular case right here, this is the, let's see, let me do my one, one, two, three.

3:19:52Dr Mark ScialdoneSo this would be going this way, which is R, but because it's coming out, it would actually, this is S limonene. Or I think what's called D-Limonene. So L, which is the R stereo center, is where this group would be coming out. And that would be drawn with a solid wedge as opposed to the staircase thing, which looks like it's going in. We call that a hash bond, by the way.

3:20:15Dr Mark ScialdoneSo that's kind of cool to talk about it on Hash Church, isn't it?

3:20:20BubblemanAbsolutely. I'm glad I, that was some quick downloading, screen saving, dick, dick, airdropping.

3:20:29SpeakerIt was well done. Well done. You got the production hat on quite well, Marcus. Stereochemistry, yeah.

3:20:35Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, if you wanted to do another side-by-side comparison, pull up linalool and geraniol.

3:20:41SpeakerPull up myrcene as well, because myrcene is kind of the base molecule. And just, I'll give you another little piece of information. Sorry to cut you off, man. Let me give you one more little quick piece of information. Myrcene dominance is what we call the wild type in cannabis. So like if you look at most hops, it's myrcene dominant. And if you look at hemp, most hemp variety, like almost all of it is myrcene dominant, right?

3:21:09SpeakerSo myrcene dominance seems to be the kind of naturally occurring state that you would find in like wild cannabis.

3:21:22SpeakerThis is what led me down, was recognizing the blueberry, the myrcene being so dominant out of a lot of testing, SC labs, the initial things I was seeing, and then like a lot of the nuance and like the flavors I was finding that weren't even maybe showing up in testing, maybe because they weren't identified or looking for them. And looking at, and again, it was hash asheen or this idea of what is the, this generalized flavor of extremely cured or aged hash.

3:21:55SpeakerAnd I was confusing that with terpenylene. And so there was a little confusion for me there. So that's an interesting little, I'll give you a little tip because it kind of goes with today's lesson of the C5H, sorry, C10H16. If we then look up six sesquiterpenes, or Mark, I don't know if you can play producer again and pull up sesquiterpene chemical structure or beta-caryophyllene chemical structure, what we'll see is that, remember what Mark said before, sesquiterpenes are one and a half.

3:22:27SpeakerSo like the sesquicentennial celebration of a country is the 150-year anniversary. Right. And so Sesqua really means one and a half of. So a Sesquiterpene is like one and a half of a monoterpene. So it has five more carbons and eight more hydrogens. I love that. So so this idea, my experience of on the of a flavor and maybe getting a lot of my effect and appreciation from these nuanced, cold cured over many months Uh, flavors is that it was the mix of basic, uh, terpenes that weren't baked off or half baked to a point of generalization that might.

3:23:13SpeakerYeah. And that's the thing is I'm trying to, I'm trying to show you that it's the science of how these molecules work together and how people can manipulate that, not manipulate the science, but how they can use the scientific principles to create the product that they want. Right, so hash has typically been sitting around. I mean, look, in traditional hash countries like Morocco, Afghanistan, they don't do the flower.

3:23:38SpeakerThey don't sift the flower until winter, right? So it's already kind of sat around for a long time, usually not in the greatest area, pretty dry. And a lot of those monoterps, because they're smaller molecules, they're more volatile, right? So you can think of them as they're literally lighter. Like they're from a molecular weight. They're lighter molecules. So they're more likely to become volatile and kind of blow away as the plant material is being stored.

3:24:08SpeakerAnything over six degrees Celsius or higher?

3:24:15SpeakerTo me, that's my target. Sorry to interrupt.

3:24:19BubblemanWas it geranium? Geranium?

3:24:21SpeakerGeranium, yeah. Like geranium, but I-O-L.

3:24:25BubblemanIt's I-O-L, not I-A-L. Geraniol.

3:24:29Dr Mark ScialdoneI-O-L, yeah.

3:24:30BubblemanThere is Geraniol, which is I-A-L, I guess.

3:24:33Dr Mark ScialdoneAh, that's a different molecule. That's an aldehyde.

3:24:36BubblemanYes, it is.

3:24:37Dr Mark ScialdoneGeraniol is an alcohol. Yeah, so Linalool is also an alcohol.

3:24:44BubblemanWeird, Chem Spy, oh no, there it is. My bad, Geraniol. Germinal, that's not what I'm looking for.

3:24:50Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, that's a completely different one.

3:24:53BubblemanWell, I need the correct spelling. I can't play around. If you guys want to supply me the exact spelling of any particular terpene in the chat, I can find it. But to throw on having to like Google the correct spelling, that is also just too much right now. There you go. It's in the chat. Germinal.

3:25:12SpeakerIt ultimately is pictures of hexagons with letters next to them. So maybe we should even find a way to compose what these things really appear as. But there's an interesting little piece of traditional info in there. The longer you hang around, and we've done these studies, the longer you hang around flower just in bad conditions, the monoterps evaporate more than the sesquiterpias. Right, so the older resin gets, the more monoterpene loss you have.

3:25:45SpeakerAnd the monoterpenes are really responsible kind of for the, what I would call the sweeter and more floral notes of cannabis. Like what I think is the good stuff. Limonene, pinene, linalool, terpenylene, those scents tend to blow away. Geraniol even, like those scents tend to disappear the longer you store the weed. Right. Or the farther away from processing you get. I'd put it that way. And that's why hashish is so sesquiterpene dominant.

3:26:16SpeakerRight. There's a ton more sesquiterpenes in hashish. And sesquiterpenes to me are more like, they're kind of more savory or roasty flavors. Right. Beta-caryophyllene and humulene is what's in hops. Yeah. Yeah. If they're stored too warmly, I really think cold chain is going to be the really evocative thing for users and, you know, getting the flavors all the way down the mountain to the, into the bodies of the people.

3:26:51SpeakerAnd, you know, the practices just aren't there yet. The shops in Hollywood are taking their regenerative flower, however nice they're prepared, and they're putting them in a warm cupboard. And, uh, Yeah, I think there's improvement can be done in something as simple as keeping it cool. I think like even the idea of cookies, like you said, these savory flavors are just the effect of it coming out of someone's hot trunk or something like this and not being, yeah, protected, protected.

3:27:28SpeakerAnd once it's there, Just a simple temperature degree can just have them literally evaporate. And I know everyone's doing things here to keep it cool through the process.

3:27:42BubblemanSo this is linalool and geraniol. Left linalool, right geraniol. So I managed to put them side by side if you guys wanted to have anything to say about that.

3:27:56Dr Mark Scialdonenature's design is beautiful yeah well i mean so so can you see the similarity between these and uh myrcene yeah so where where myrcene had a double bond now you have a hydroxyl group so basically water has added to the double bond of of myrcene and it could add to either the double bond That makes linalool or it could add to the double bond on the end, which makes geraniol.

3:28:30Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it's just a very subtle nuance of molecular structure that changes these molecules enough that our olfactory spectroscopy can basically discern the difference between rose and lavender. Amazing. I just put two other molecules in the chat. So, Nucatone is a compound that is the grapefruit essence. In fact, Nucatone is a compound, a terpenoid, that occurs in cannabis. So, when you smell grapefruit smelling cannabis and that grapefruit essence, you get Nucatone.

3:29:08Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd what Nucatone is, is an oxidized form of something called Valensine. Valensine This is a sesquiterpene that is an oxidation away from making grapefruit. So this is basically, again, two molecules. Have you seen nude cotone in analysis, though? There's not a whole lot of labs that evaluate for it, but I know the smell of that molecule. And yeah, I mean, there's things that basically hit that molecular weight when you do terpene, you know, GCMS.

3:29:44Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I assume that, yeah, there's definitely new ketone. And I know that there's valensine.

3:29:50SpeakerWe have a variety called grapefruit. And I've made a bunch of hybrids with it and done a bunch of analysis with it. And it's always terpenylene dominant. And I was starting to think that it was maybe some kind of ester molecule that was influencing us into that citrus aspect.

3:30:05Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, that's nucatone, man. Nucatone is the grapefruit molecule. When you smell nucatone, you'll smell grapefruits.

3:30:14SpeakerWould you need to run like a 2D...

3:30:18Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, I got a GCMS at the lab at school. I could tell you whether Nucatone's in there because our GCMS has got the NIST library, which includes all terpenes and terpenoids. So if it's that terpene or terpenoid, I'd be able to tell you with a high degree of certainty on whether or not it's in there.

3:30:40SpeakerBut you'd need an MS to bust it apart in a really slow run.

3:30:44Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I need a, I need a, I need a, the GC is the thing that separates it out. The mass spec will basically is the molecular fingerprint that helps me identify whether it's that molecule or not.

3:30:55SpeakerYeah, I've got an FID. It's not a, it's not an MS detector.

3:30:59Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, the mass spectrometer is like an order of magnitude more sensitive. And so we could see, we see all kinds of shit in that thing. It's great. I love the mass spectrometer. It's really cool. But yeah, if you look at these two molecules, valensine again has a very orange smell. In fact, I think valensine more than limonene is the terpenoid that is in cannabis that really gives that real orangey tangy kind of flavor.

3:31:30Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's definitely, it's a, it's a, it's a sesquiterpene. So it takes a lot more energy to boil it away. Um, New Cotone, again, has got that grapefruit smell. I'd be surprised, Brian, if it's there in a huge concentration because kind of like the sulfur compounds, these things are- Just a little bit goes a long way. Yeah, a little bit goes a long way. And they're sesquise, so that means they're not going away anytime soon.

3:31:57Dr Mark ScialdoneSo they're not like fleeting, like the more volatile monoterps.

3:32:02Collin PalmerAnd that's, that's the other thing, Ryan, you know, when I think about like a live product versus a cured product, you know, they almost deserve their own categories as difficult as that would be to get there in terms of consumers. You know, that's like over the weekend, I was showing someone this jar that I have here. And it was, it was a jar at one point of fresh press.

3:32:21Collin PalmerAnd I said, listen, smell this. And they were like, oh, that's really sharp and sweet. And I said, well, tomorrow. We'll smell it again and smell this other jar. And they're like, wow, that's really banana. And I said, well, these are the same. It's the same varietal. This is just further along in the process. So things are happening and are evolving. And those esters from the banana side started to evolve more in jar B.

3:32:46Collin PalmerAnd over time, it just completely changes the experience. And even the nose all the way to the olfactory, it's an experiential difference too. It's a much more hazy experience when there's an even balance of mono and sesca.

3:33:04Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, isoamylacicate is the banana smell, right? That's definitely totally banana, isoamylacicate. And that, yeah, so the amyl group is a C5. So yeah, that could certainly be isoprene derived. So in a, in a, In a weird kind of way, it is kind of a terpene, but it's more of a terpenoid. I had the same discussion with the guys at Abstracts about those pre-annulated sulfides, which they're like, ooh, they're non-terpenes.

3:33:35Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's like, well, no, not really, because they have a prenatal group in it. They're, they are terpene derived. So those prenatal.

3:33:43SpeakerThey're all built from the same. That's what the plant's doing is it's just, it's trying to play rector set with what the chemical pieces that it has around. Right. And prenatalation is a prenatalation is one of the tricks of cannabis. Like you've heard of Sesquicidia, it's just prenatalated CBG, right?

3:34:01BubblemanWell, this guy just came, this guy just came in on a hammock on a, on a, on a boot boat cruise. On a book. Oh, we got to like, this is ridiculous.

3:34:11Dr Mark ScialdoneThat CBGA, Ryan, is not made with geranial pyrophosphate. It's made with farnesyl pyrophosphate, which, so the precursor, it's not like CBGA converts and gets pre-enolated. It's like the precursor comes with that five carbon extra tail because it's using farnesyl and not geranial pyrophosphate. Right, right. Fascinating shit, right?

3:34:38SpeakerIt is very fascinating. I think we're boring the class, though. I think we've given them too much. Are we losing people? No, I'm just liking it. We're mixing the splicers with the groupers, and ultimately it's the same target, and the nuance on how the flavors, how they affect, like Colin was saying, it's like smoking an extremely early Thank you for joining us.

3:35:23Collin PalmerIt's, it's really, I'd, I'd love to start doing tests through the cure process as to how it goes.

3:35:29SpeakerThere you go. I was just, I was just sitting there thinking to myself, I can't wait until Colin starts testing this shit all the time.

3:35:39Collin PalmerWell, here's what, here's why, like the truth of it is, is I, I, I, I think we all need this because There's a lot to discover here. You know, you know, chemistry is happening right at all points until you actually light the thing on fire or vaporize or whatever, however you're going to deliver it. And that, I think, is important because we're so sure of ourselves when we make things right.

3:36:04Collin PalmerWe're like, oh, this is the formulation of this and this percentage point. But that rarely gets delivered to that patient, right? Unless it's hours later, right? Or it's, or someone said earlier, like it's delivered in the, at the perfect temperature all the way up until they get it and they're keeping it cold and it's keeping all of these things, Together, but I even question that because I don't even know if we understand what temperature to keep these things at because they all require something different if we're really honest about it.

3:36:36Collin PalmerSo it's also fleeting and that inflection point, as I think Marcus said the other day and has continued to say, is what we chase, right? That really like volatile aspect of things. So it just deserves its own study, I think. And those are the things I think we... You know, like with all the chemistry knowledge, you know, Mark, as it changes form, I don't think any of us could pinpoint that form of change.

3:37:06Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I always thought that the myrcene predominance in fresh flour can change chemically in the cure. And again, there's probably, you know, a little bit of like, You know, wine making, cheese making kind of stuff, yogurt making, you know, food gone bad kind of thing where it's the aging of cannabis that leads to myrcene forming hash machine and Perhaps as cannabis ages, I mean, think about it.

3:37:40Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's losing water, right? So that means there's active water transport. Well, what's the difference between linalool and geraniol and myrcene? A molecule of water. And a little temperature, like you said. Could the plant be changing its terpene profile because as it dries out, that molecule of water finds a terpene to react with? Absolutely.

3:38:05SpeakerNo, that's enzyme driven. You know, that's all.

3:38:08Collin PalmerWell, Dutch Blooms yesterday brought this up during their genetic stock. He was talking about dog walker and he was like, you know, when you grow it, it's really sweet and not as gassy. But dude, when you when you cure that thing and you finally open the bag, it's like all straight fuel gas to, you know, fuel gas. And. That make, what you're saying, Dr. Mark, kind of makes a lot of sense in that respect.

3:38:30Collin PalmerBut I also understand what you're saying, Ryan, because it is driven by that, right? Let's not forget.

3:38:34SpeakerBut why are there myrcene, why are there, like, it just doesn't make sense, because I, we were growing myrcene, I had a plant, Afgui, that essentially was myrcene, and that was it. It might depend on, it,

3:38:46Dr Mark ScialdoneIt might depend on how you're drying it and how you're curing it, if you're curing it at all.

3:38:50SpeakerNo, but they're all done in the same environment.

3:38:53Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, but there's definitely chemistry that can happen on those things. I'm not saying there's not.

3:38:58SpeakerI'm not saying there's not. What I'm saying is we had plants that were only myrcene, and then I had plants that would produce linalool, and I'd grow them in the same environment and dry them in the same environment, and one plant would have no linalool in one plant and full myrcene. And one plant would have linalool. It's not a randomly chemical-driven reaction. These are enzyme-driven reactions.

3:39:20Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, but that's a unique set of conditions that I think you could, again, draw a lot of chemical reactions that can happen on curing because of what's happening to the physical state of the plant. But look at it this way, Ryan.

3:39:36SpeakerWell, if that's the case, show me. Don't tell me. Show me with data, like... This temperature is the greatest catalyst. We've done these. You've got to remember, Mark, I've done these experiments, right? We've done this stuff. I don't know if you have growing all the plants and doing it, but we have.

3:39:53Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, I haven't done this with plants. Okay, so what I can tell you is that geraniol is just any leftover geraniol Thank you so much for joining us.

3:40:32Dr Mark ScialdoneWhere the terpene profiles change, and it's not just due to evaporation. It's the relative amount of those terpenes do change. And that literature exists. I've read those papers. But what I can tell you again, too, is that it doesn't take a whole lot. It doesn't take a whole lot. If you just look at, again, what we looked at before between limonene and terpenylene, it doesn't take a whole lot of energy or influence to basically turn one thing into another.

3:41:01Dr Mark ScialdoneThose things, a lot of them interchange. They do.

3:41:05SpeakerI would like to please speak. I've never ever seen a terpenylene dominant sample become limonene. I've never seen that. I think it's not supported. It's just not support. It's just not supported, Mark, by chemical analysis.

3:41:19Dr Mark ScialdoneBut so you missed my entire point, Ryan. I'm surprised because I thought I thought you'd pick this up. You can't convert limonene into terpenylene. You can do the other thing the other way around. But you're talking about something that's concrete.

3:41:34SpeakerYou said that reverse, but you cut it. You said it the other way around. You're saying limonene plants would become terpenally dominant. No, I'm not saying that at all.

3:41:43Dr Mark ScialdoneThey're not dominant, but they could have some drift. They could have some drift. They could have some drift. My apologies. I'm saying that you could chemically convert limonene into terpenally. That can happen. And I suspect that there's a little bit of that kind of transformation that happens in the cure because you're removing water, And you're interacting with oxygen and air. And there's, you know, those terpenes, some of them are metastable and they want to go to terpenoids.

3:42:14Dr Mark ScialdoneLike camphor and other things like that. And those are all just made by enzymatic formation. Some of those are actually made by oxidation itself. And some of that oxidation, like what we talked about today with that strange new cannabinoid might be actually happening microbially in a synergistic way on the plant itself. So yeah, is it enzyme driven? It certainly can be. But if you take a little bit of water and you take a little bit of myrcene and add an acid catalyst, you're going to make a mixture of geraniol and linalool.

3:42:57Dr Mark ScialdoneYou can't keep the chemistry from happening.

3:42:58SpeakerStay cool, everyone. I do just want to, I mean, curation, I would call myself a curator, mainly. I do think That, you know, I've gotten resin eight years on the flower sealed in glass with a six month open air cure where the temperature was kept below five degrees centigrade from harvest on. And there are a few things, Mark, you called it a degradation. I do like to think of it as if we can keep these things cool enough.

3:43:31SpeakerThere is a regrading that happens or a regradation. The Terps are literally melting into one another, recomposing themselves. I do think the ability to allow the gas exchange when the chlorophyll is converting and causing maybe caustic elements that if trapped in a bag or a jar, We'll degrade both the flour and the resin. Whereas if there's an air exchange or an open air hanging with the coolness present, that allows for best keeping the flavors at home, not allowing them to become volatile, not allowing the limonene to advance to the terpenylene prematurely.

3:44:19SpeakerSo I really do think time, the further, you mentioned cheese and wine, The further we can kind of allow the components that are present at harvest in the resin to remain as they are and slowly maybe go along metabolic change, mainly, I think, again, not understanding the enzymatic change, but mainly temperature being the catalyst for metabolizing these things. Yeah, keeping it cool, eventually pulling the oxygen away from the resin and allowing in glass for the cure to continue at low temperatures.

3:45:01SpeakerI think we will start to be delivering the fullest taste the rainbow flavors.

3:45:07Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I think the lesson that the discovery of hash machine really teaches us is that these molecules are reactive. And depending on how cannabis or hash or concentrates are stored, the reaction could be manifest in making new molecules. The fact is, is that hash machine isn't made by the plant. It's made by basically, I'll use the Thank you so much for joining us.

3:45:57Dr Mark ScialdoneYou can change the terpene profiles in plant material, period. Right? Can we agree to agree on that?

3:46:09Bryan Best Friend FarmsI agree.

3:46:10Collin PalmerWell, I mean, let's talk about esterification of terpenes. We can influence them, right? I mean, I don't know about change.

3:46:17SpeakerIn theory, I think anything, you know, I think anything's possible, of course. I'd love to see the changing of terpenes during curing documented. Right, because again, we did these things.

3:46:31Dr Mark ScialdoneI got a GCMS, man. Send me some fucking samples. Let's get fucking going, man.

3:46:39SpeakerYou have to remember, at NAPRO, we did all these studies, right? We did all these studies.

3:46:46Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd yeah, but that shit's all locked up in some patent or some other shit. I mean, yeah, I mean, put this out there. I mean, let's let's let's forget about all that. Hold on. Right. Right. Now, man.

3:46:59SpeakerNo, but I'm not I'm not saying let's not do stuff now, but it's like I can't because I know all that stuff.

3:47:04Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. Think about it. We talk about it on Hash Church. Send me a bunch of samples. We'll figure out whether or not this actually changes on storage. Like send me like after. Three days, after a week, after two weeks, after two months, after, and we'll just get a profile on each one and we'll look to see. I'm curious.

3:47:26Collin PalmerI'm really curious, Ryan. Like, so you're saying you've done the tests day by day, week by week, or how many days, you know, through the cure of X amount of varietals? Like what was, what was just the, is it, and then you had a control on this?

3:47:43SpeakerAnd you just, what you control is your early data points, right?

3:47:47Collin PalmerRight. So there's, so through, I'm just, cause I'm curious, I'm just trying to understand the, so you guys did this, right? And you see your, you're saying through your experience of doing this, the data has shown that it doesn't change. You don't have these drastic terpene profile changes. There are no drastic, is that, that's what you're saying?

3:48:06SpeakerThat's what I'm saying.

3:48:07Collin PalmerGot it. Okay. Fantastic. So again, okay, so that that spawns the question that I have now of mana versus sesqua and why when we make an extract such as hash, if you were just, let's say, leave it out, you would have a slightly different profile or in the case that I just know, like, so in the short term, you don't lose in the long term, you lose your you lose a lot more of your monotropes as a ratio.

3:48:34SpeakerYou got to remember all this stuff is infused together in a resin. It's not like they're individually like Thank you for watching.

3:48:55Speakerright and so like that's the type of change that you will see i have like there's some of these other things that are being proposed i've i'm not saying they can't happen in terms of chemistry i'm just saying i haven't really seen that happen in in in in you know flowers being stored that's fascinating so like in my head

3:49:21Collin PalmerJust based on thinking of how VOCs operate and work, because there's such complexity here, there has to be change. And this is just theory. I guess this is my own theory based on what I know today. And then now what you're telling me today is fresh information to me because it's challenging that. You're saying, dude, it doesn't change. Sure, the flower may cure. But, you know, from day one to, you know, to let's say, you know, three weeks in or four weeks in, you're largely...

3:49:57SpeakerI'm not saying the scent doesn't change. I'm saying the terpene profile doesn't really change.

3:50:04BubblemanIt's just our perception of that scent that changes when the monos dissipate and now this new bouquet comes up to take its place. It was always there.

3:50:13SpeakerThey remember terpenes are one factor in that orchestra. You can kind of think of it like the terpenes are maybe the brass of the orchestra, right? And the thiols are like the woodwinds or something like that. You can kind of think of it in that, you know, and the esters are another category of the orchestra, right? Like the Right.

3:50:34Collin PalmerWell, that's that's what I was highlighting before with the rosin, right? Like the esters and the banana were like coming through more in kind of evolving this the scent profile, if you will, in a way that was drastically different. You know, so anyway, it's really, again, guys like this to me, this is like just, I love the, I love everyone's perspective because it's, it's data driven here on your behalf, Ryan and Dr. Mark, it's the same thing, you know, it's just chemistry driven, you know?

3:51:06SpeakerYeah, well, and we all have the same, Thank you for joining us.

3:51:34SpeakerSo in order to get the full picture of what is sent is a lot of chemistry. It's a lot of specific analytical chemistry. Just like we don't run cannabinoids and terpenes on one GC run. Those get run through different machines. You do one extraction... And then half goes to for cannabinoid content. And another subsection of that extract goes for terpene analysis, right?

3:52:04BubblemanThis whole conversation leads so beautifully into the conversation, the whole hash church that we're going to do, I hope soon. Originally, we said May a couple of months ago with the guys from Abstract that Dr. Mark brought to the table. Marshall Laguerre, he was the PhD that came on here that was friends with Nick Ziegler. Nick Ziegler also, I haven't talked to him in about a month, but I'm hoping Jeremy Plum, Chimera, it's going to be a really good conversation in regards to, you know, very much what we're kind of tapping into right now with just maybe some people who are also involved in doing that work, particularly the file work.

3:52:45SpeakerI really want to go down that rabbit hole, but Jeremy Plum had a very, Jeremy Plum had a great, Take on terpenes, I thought and was able to take. Oh, Jeremy speaks.

3:52:59BubblemanYeah, he speaks, I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm kind of trying to end the show if you happen to tune into that. I got eight, I got eight minutes. Sorry, I got, you know, sometimes it's got to be straightforward, but I do want, like, listen, Jeremy will be involved in this conversation. He's brilliant. I love listening to him and he's always an inspiration. First, I have a little bit of humor because I did hear a lot of people say, wow, you know, Ryan sounding like Skunk Man Sam, he was just dropping knowledge, right?

3:53:27BubblemanSo, Just like the Vatican, we here at Hash Church, we have a new Pope. Just wanted to announce that. We have a new Pope. Ryan Lee, you are the new Pope of Hash Church. The orange smoke has billowed. You are the Pope, my friend. You are the Pope.

3:53:47SpeakerIt's the Bitcoin orange smoke coming out of the Vatican.

3:53:51BubblemanYes, exactly. So that picture is actually the photo that announces that there is a new pope in the Vatican. For those of you that don't know, that's what that photo was from. That was from Vatican City. And when they released that orange smoke, it kind of looks like they're puffing on the low grade doo doo butter from the old school CO2 before they kind of figured out how to tune in those.

3:54:12SpeakerMarcus, real quick before you go, would you mind sharing those photos of David?

3:54:19BubblemanYes, let me just one quickly here. See, oh yeah, good. Fuck, I don't even know where they are, man. Okay, here we go. So this is, man, I'll tell you, if I was a breeder, I'd have this tattooed on my back. This is awesome. Straight up awesome. So there's, yeah, there's Dave doing what Dave did best. Blowing pollen towards the ladies.

3:54:49BubblemanYeah, this was in a... David Watson claims to have the biggest cannabis library. Look at his face. It goes so good.

3:54:59Collin PalmerHe's just like... Why, yes I do.

3:55:05SpeakerI think these were both in British newspapers. No, sorry. Yes, there it is. Yeah, I think these were both in British newspapers. And then there was another one from... Like a long time ago, a harvest festival up in this one. That one was a long time ago. That's awesome, dude. Anyhow, thought I'd share that with you guys.

3:55:29BubblemanI'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. In the meantime, what was I going to do? I was going to A, say thank you everyone for the great conversation today. I love the tension. I love the intensity. It means we love and we're passionate and we're at the same time empathetic. And I hope that everything works out for everyone that was on the show today. I want to thank Nick for coming on.

3:55:51BubblemanDefinitely want to have that dude on again. He was very, just great knowledge. I loved everything that came out of his mouth. I loved his vibe. And he was intelligent.

3:56:04SpeakerI'd like to thank our sponsor, Pfizer-BioNTech.

3:56:11BubblemanActually, I should thank my sponsor, Press Club Co. Thank you for that. Thank you, Grandmaster LEDs. Thank you, Puffco. And thank you, Bubble Bags, because that's certainly something I should do here at the end of the show. And just really thanks everyone for watching another episode. I was counting and it seems like we're about at 37 episodes that we've done in a row from the 5.0 into doing that every week, which we're now at 17 weeks.

3:56:37BubblemanSo looking to hit 52 for this year. Consistent Hash Churches. Thanks everyone for coming on. I do want to finish it with really once again, I heard back from some friends in Amsterdam that Soma is not doing well right now. He could use everyone's support. He had a really rough day today. So our love goes out to both Soma and Wade, two of our elders in this wonderful cannabis community that we all share in.

3:57:05BubblemanNever, You know, it always makes me feel terrible knowing my brothers are in pain or in a bad space. But I do believe in that unseen that Nick was speaking about. And there's that unseen is the pathways that energy travels. And if you have happy, positive, good thoughts, Thank you so much for joining us today. We're going to be talking about people. It certainly can't hurt if this is the holographic universe that we're living in and we are in some insane simulation, then we do have more control over it than we may know.

3:57:39BubblemanSo thank you, everyone, for being a part of this community. Thanks to really cannabis. Thanks. Thank you. Thank Johnny B for winning the press bags. I may the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later. I hope to see you all next week.