Solventless Deep Dive: Contamination, Diamonds, and Barcelona

0:21BubblemanAll right, well, we're waiting. Let's see. Here we go. Look at that. We're live. And I love when it works.

0:26SpeakerIt's like my favorite.

0:28BubblemanAnd we're recording. So everyone, good morning. Welcome to Hash Church, season 11, episode 9, another solventless episode. Pretty excited for this one, not gonna lie. I'm just gonna set up This, and we will go into my sponsors, our wonderful sponsors here on Hash Church. We're going to give a big shout out to Puffco for sponsoring Hash Church again. Puffco has clearly revolutionized cannabis culture, normalizing extracts with their incredible portable devices like the Puffco Preak, the Pivot, the Proxy.

1:03BubblemanThese amazing units deliver top tier performance and style, making them favorites in our community. Puffco's unwavering support for all things cannabis keep us lit and united. Check them out. Puffco's got your back. Next up we have the low temp. All right. Definitely want to shout out low temp industries. These guys have been making waves for the last four or five years. Low temp industries has built a reputation for crafting reliable USA made solventless extraction equipment trusted by the best hash makers worldwide.

1:38BubblemanIn 2024, they introduced the 30-gallon Mini Osprey, which is a compact hash washing system for those who need a solid alternative to hand washing or plastic washers without compromising small batch quality. Built with the same precision engineering as the full-size Osprey, the Mini delivers gentle yet powerful bottom agitation, ensuring consistent results. And that's why award-winning hash makers trusted, including Dammit Bobby, who should be on the panel today, who took first place in the full mail category at Legends of Hashish back in Portland, Oregon, with hash washed in a mini Osprey.

2:12BubblemanIf you're looking to boost efficiency without sacrificing quality, the mini Osprey is a worthwhile investment. So there we go. All right. Grandmaster LEDs. So I've been working with these guys for a while. Get ready to take your grow to the next level. Grandmaster LEDs is bringing the heat with cutting edge lighting solutions designed for growers who demand the best. Whether you're battling pests or chasing perfect yields, we've got you covered with the latest and greatest innovations.

2:41BubblemanThe UVC Tarantula Predator, the ultimate PM IPM bug light. This bad boy harnesses the power of UVC technology to zap out mites, thrips, aphids, and more, keeping your garden pristine without chemicals or hassle. Pair it with Grandmaster LEDs, top tier grow lights and under canopy lights, and you've got a setup that's unbeatable for potency, flavor, and peace of mind. Waterproof, daisy chainable, and built to last, the Tarantula Predator is your new secret weapon.

3:07BubblemanTune in to Hash Church to hear the pros rave about Grandmaster LEDs, then grab yours at grandmasterleds.com. You can use the code hashchurch15 at checkout for an exclusive discount. Light up your grow the Grandmaster way because your plants deserve the best. Hashchurch15, that's the discount code. And certainly last but certainly not least, I got to give a shout out to... Let me see here. To me, to Bubble Bags.

3:36BubblemanMy goodness. Bubble Bags stand out as the premier choice for water hash extraction, and it's no surprise why. We are the original innovators who set the standard for quality and performance. We crafted with durability in mind. These bags come with a lifetime warranty. Ensuring you're covered for years of consistent use. The team behind Bubble Bags takes pride in their pioneering legacy. That's me. Backing every product with unwavering confidence and a commitment to excellence, making them the trusted go-to for enthusiasts and professionals alike seeking top tier hash extraction results.

4:08BubblemanDon't believe the fake names. Those guys aren't us. We're not bubble bag dudes. We're not bubble hash bags. We are the bubble bags. And you can get a discount hash church 15 at bubblebag.com. Thank you everyone for bearing with me while I went through the sponsors. I'm gonna let in our panel now we have about six or seven folks waiting in the panel. And we'll get going on another solventless episode.

4:33BubblemanListen, that last episode we did was very well received. People were pretty stoked on it. I'm guessing my headphones are not hooked up right now properly. So I'm going to do that because I cannot actually hear anything.

4:46Nikka TOh, there it is. There it is. I got it now.

4:53BubblemanBeautiful. Sorry, guys. Welcome, everyone. Welcome to Hash Church. I see some familiars and some not so familiar. Some people I haven't seen a lot. Dude, Dust, it's really nice to have you in Hash Church, bro.

5:07SpeakerHello. Hello. Yeah, dude. Thank you for inviting me, man. Of course, man.

5:13BubblemanListen, I don't know how it's been this long to have you on, but, you know, we're excited to hear about what the strain hunters are doing, what the greenhouse crew is doing. You guys are consistently making, of course, of course, you're in a giant, beautiful, epic grow. Are you in Thailand right now?

5:30SpeakerYeah, it's midnight in Thailand now, just checking out the grow, the lights are coming on, so I was looking through.

5:37BubblemanYeah, this is how you commit to your specialty, right? Midnight in Thailand, on Hash Church, in the grow room. I love it, dude. It's a pleasure to, I see also some familiar faces I haven't seen in a while, so it's a pleasure to be here.

5:53SpeakerThank you very much.

5:55BubblemanYes, man, absolutely. We're happy to be here. Hello, everybody. Happy to have Dust in the house. Happy to have the rest of you guys in the house as well. Nickatee's in the house again. How you doing, Nicka?

6:05Nikka TI'm blessed, brother. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, yeah.

6:08BubblemanOkay.

6:09SpeakerYou got a fresh comb.

6:12BubblemanYeah, man. That's what's up. Oh, damn it. Bobby's having problems. He's coming and he's going. He's coming and he's going. He's coming and he's going. We'll get him back. We'll get him back. Welcome back again, Caitlin. High Fidelity in the house.

6:26SpeakerHello.

6:27BubblemanRepresenting for the female hash makers. That's right. Caitlin makes the bomb. The bomb. I know because I've smoked it many times.

6:37SpeakerThanks, Marcus.

6:38BubblemanAlways willing to go back for more. That's really kind of, you know, when you get a lot of hash, you can always tell what, you don't need a contest to tell you what the best hash is. You just know, and this is something I do when I meet like a well-known hash maker and they pull all their jars out. And you guys can tell me if you're on this page as well.

6:56BubblemanI always hit the one that has the least in it.

7:01SpeakerYes, definitely.

7:02BubblemanRight? When the hash maker pulls out the 20 jars and there's like, they're mostly full, but then there's this one in the corner and it's got barely anything in it. I'm like, what's that? What's that one?

7:14SpeakerYou're going for the mass choice.

7:17BubblemanThat's it. That's it. So I left my Yeezy OG out on the deck last night and it gum, it greased up on me. So now it's, it's not powder anymore, but my God, it smells like, Almost like a cheese. There's almost a funky cheese that's come out of this Yeezy OG. I'm not sure if any of you guys know Yeezy OG from that Lit company, I believe.

7:40SpeakerOh, yeah.

7:42BubblemanYeah. Pretty decent. Pretty nice. Welcome, Colin, in the house, Vessel Life Sciences, New York.

7:50Collin PalmerWhat's up, man? Thanks for having me, as always. Good to be on. Absolutely.

7:55BubblemanWe've got a big panel today, actually. There's a lot of people coming on today, like 15 to 20 plus people. So I'm kind of stoked that the hardcores came in first. We can have a little conversation. I felt like the last conversation, which you weren't here for, Dust. But it was a lot of solventless talk. It was a lot of just, you know, talking about hash making this, that and the other thing.

8:15BubblemanWe did get into a pretty deep conversation in regards to parchment paper. You know, we've had this parchment paper discussion in the past where people are like, well, what if it's polluting or contaminating? And No one's ever found anything and it's gone through these crazy tests, but our chemist, Dr. Mark was like, well, you know, unless you're looking for it, you're probably not going to find it.

8:36BubblemanSo we talked a little bit about Keylon and we talked about Silicon and we talked about the potential for contamination out of parchment. I swear to God, we went on for at least an hour and a half about it, and not a single person mentioned the potential contamination from the screen bags. And so if you understand the difference between the screen bags, you have polyethylene, Which has a very, like a much lower temperature at which it off gases at.

9:05BubblemanAnd then you have Nitex, which is almost twice. It's over, I believe it's over 400 degrees, like closer to 500 degrees. Whereas the polyethylene is like 230 or 220. It can start, even below that, it can start off gassing. So it's funny, Mark Sheldon just hit me up. He's like, oh, I'll be on there right away. Don't get into it too deep. This is definitely Mark's conversation.

9:30SpeakerThere are so many factors to look at, especially with now all those legal markets where the microbials have to be good and everything. It's getting very deep. Even the gloves themselves, I think it was Hashtag that did a very nice comparative thing with the microscope pictures and And yeah, people don't really think about it, but there's so many contaminations from everywhere, including that.

9:55BubblemanYeah, it's interesting. You know, it's funny because it's kind of like it rocks the boat, like it does rock the boat. I'm not sure that there's some massive contamination occurring in rosin. And I base that more than anything on my own olfactory and my own ability to when I when I inhale things that aren't right. I'll usually get a headache or feel sick or get some sort of sensitivity.

10:20BubblemanI'm not saying that I'm, you know, like a GC or a gas chromatograph or something. I'm sure that things could get past me. And I love the idea of people going deep and figuring out that, you know, at least something that we're making on the daily that I would say most of the people on this panel are consuming on the daily, like regularly consuming it nonstop. You just want to know that it's as safe as possible.

10:42BubblemanIt's where you want to make sure that, you know, I mean, geez, 20 years ago, we were probably puffing on Eagle 20 and some other not so nice things, which were at the, you know, the higher end of the, hey, we got to get rid of, you know, these chemicals that are being sprayed. And then you have people like Dragonfly Earth Medicine going down the regenerative organic growing process of, you know, creating safer medicine as well.

11:06BubblemanI'm looking forward to the conversation today. Either way, it looks like you got your shit together. Damn it, Bobby. Damn it, Bobby. Welcome, brother. Good to see you. And that poster, that meme you posted the other day had me like pissing my pants. The when you see someone that doesn't smoke melt at the ego clash. Oh, I don't think we can hear you.

11:34BubblemanOh, I've had this happen before. You might have to come in and come back out. Damn it, Bobby. Fits the name. Welcome to Kaya in the house. Secretly under the name Iris. He's also, oh no, say something there, Kaya. I wanted to hear if I could hear you.

11:55SpeakerI think my daughter hacked my computer here, so that's why her name is in the deal. I love it, dude.

12:01BubblemanI love it. Here, watch this. What do you want your name to be? I can change it in a split second. Not Iris? Kai is great.

12:12BubblemanBoom. Yeah. I used to have to change a skunk man, Sam. He'd come in with his name, David Watson. And he'd be like, I don't want people to, I'm like, Dave, literally everyone knows your name. They know all your names. They know the only thing, the only thing I think most people could admit that very few people knew what he looked like, unless you, you know, we're out of legends hanging out and having them fill the, uh, the hubbly bubbly for you.

12:37Etienne FontanI love it.

12:38BubblemanGood morning, Caitlin.

12:39SpeakerGood to see you again. Good morning. Good to see you as well. Nice to hang out. What's up, Nick, Bobby.

12:47BubblemanGot the whole crew. We also got the curator, Mark Archer. Dude, this guy's taking some super beautiful photos. I saw one the other day. It was like a little purple. I mean, fuck, I can't talk about it and not bring it up. One second here. I don't know if you have it. Let me bring it up because it really was beautiful. I'm sure you guys have seen it.

13:08BubblemanThe little purple rosin guy standing with the little beige rosin guy and they're kind of got their hands out together. And I was just like, dude, that is like, Just really wonderful. I'm not going to lie. I'm just opening up his thing right here.

13:23SpeakerThose are so good. I love those shots.

13:25BubblemanDude, they're so good. They're absolutely wonderful. I think it's wonderful because, you know, you start taking these macro photographs and you get into it. And what I've been super impressed with, this is just a beautiful picture. I just, I think it speaks volumes at, you know, to me, what I saw is that like, yeah, you know what we have? A lot of differences in our community, but we also have hash.

13:52BubblemanAnd so let's focus on the hash maybe a little bit more than the, you know, his title was Make Hash, Not War. And I mean, man, you think of all the people taking photographs of cannabis over the years from like the Rob Clarks and the, you know, the Ed Rosenthal's and the, you know, all the way up. to the perhaps your giddy ants and then myself and then growing into like the dynasty and the surface area and you know just all of these incredible macro photographers yet you can still pull out something so new and novel as to create an image of a couple of rosin dudes is your uh audio working now mark yeah yeah i think i should be good as long as you guys can hear me i think we're in good shape We can hear you great, man.

14:34BubblemanWhy don't, seeing as you're pretty new to this platform, why don't you give us a little background as to, you know, who you are and what you're doing and how you kind of came to creating these just fucking beautiful images, man. Like the one you posted the other day, the invisible man, the invisible dab man. Dude, that is so, that is so sick. It's ridiculous, bro. That's art.

15:00SpeakerThat's art. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it a little bit because I feel like a lot of people see the art. I never show my face. I never really talk about it very much. I just like put it out and hope people interpret it as they want to because that's the whole idea. But yeah, I'm just really in love with the plant.

15:16SpeakerI'm in love with the resin. I have been my entire life. We just spent a huge part of my life. Like I grew up with like nothing and the plant is what helped me kind of like ascend the social hierarchy and be able to actually afford my bills and do things I want to do and have a family and It's all been all revolving around the plant.

15:34SpeakerSo my opportunity to give back to the plant is to like be creative with it and help show people that I think are really passionate. Like I'm lucky enough to be able to kind of choose who I work with at this point. And for the most part, I work with people who I really, really want to elevate their work. I want to show their work because I think they're super passionate.

15:51SpeakerAnd if you're really fighting for the plant, I want to fight for you because at the end of the day, ultimately, Thank you for joining us today.

16:13BubblemanDude, it's fucking baller, bro. Are you kidding me? It's such a high level. Like, how are every, like, I'll tell you one thing, and I'm certain half the people on this panel are thinking it as well. I'm definitely working with you, bro. The Bubble Man brand needs to work with the curator, man. Oh my goodness.

16:32SpeakerThat's all I want to do. I want to be able to do exactly that. I want to work with legends. I want to work with new up-and-coming legends. I want to work with people who are really super passionate. If I have the opportunity to be around those type of people in the community, and this is my vessel to get there, I just want to keep contributing art as much as I possibly can, essentially, and see where it takes me.

16:54SpeakerAnd so far, it's been like a fever dream is kind of what it feels like.

16:58BubblemanDude, I love this one you did on the cannabis industry.

17:06BubblemanOh my goodness. I had to say it, dude.

17:11SpeakerI, like I said, I really appreciate the love. It's like, I feel like I've been kind of in my, it's my basement is where I do my art. And, you know, I've been like kind of in my like basement dungeon, just like head down, just trying to come up with new creative stuff. And the last like year, it feels like a ton of momentum has been built with people just appreciating the art.

17:30SpeakerAnd that's all I want to do is just like continue to be able to basically just do weird stuff and have people appreciate it.

17:37BubblemanDude, I greatly appreciate your weirdness, bro. This is, uh, really hit me hard. Like, I was just like, and I feel like I had seen a couple, but like, you want to talk about like unique and novel and like awesome? Like, dude, what the fuck, bro? This is so good. Sorry to be throwing all this smoke up your ass, but...

17:59SpeakerThe jet stream, I always try to make it actually stuff I'm doing. I try not to use anything from any other sources. So like that jet stream, I took a vape, like a, you know, like a disposable rosin vape and blew through the bottom of it and took a picture of that, like a single frame, and then use that as that jet propulsion. It's like, and then obviously I composite stuff together, but it's all stuff I'm creating all the elements in my studio by hand.

18:24BubblemanBy far the best way I've seen to market and promote solventless extraction. Bubble Man brand definitely wants to work with you in the near future. I'll be hooking you up, I'm guessing probably with my team in Michigan first. Oh shit, really? Look at that. This is so cool, man. I'm just flipping through all your pictures here and it just, it's incredible.

18:51SpeakerThank you. And I want to say hi to Kyle and Caitlin. I don't know if you guys remember, but I filmed Melting of the Heads in New York. So I that was like before this stuff really built the momentum. I had a High Times cover, but I hadn't really been doing the like super creative stuff yet. So I had a pleasure working around you guys at that time as well.

19:12BubblemanAwesome. Very awesome, man. Truly just impressive. And I'm glad to, it makes me want to smoke some hash actually. So I'm going to dip into this, this Yeezy OG 90 micron. Well, it kind of looks like diamonds, but it's just, it's just melt.

19:31SpeakerBoop.

19:32BubblemanThere we go. So I hope you guys are all going to load something up. What do you got there, Nickity? You got some dry sip there? Some powdered bubble? No, this is just some Dulce, some rosin.

19:42Nikka TJust some Dulce.

19:45BubblemanJust some Dulce. We'll whip it up, dude. Is it in your joint?

19:53Nikka TNo, some melt was in my joint, but I'm going to dab some rosin with y'all. Some melt.

19:59BubblemanI'm just going to drop this in the old universal heater. Actually, you know what? I don't want to wait for that.

20:05Nikka TIt was Dulce melt, though.

20:07BubblemanWas it? Oh, we got Wook Sauce in the house? That must be us.

20:11SpeakerMark, we're hitting some of that ghost train haze if you got some of that.

20:15BubblemanOh, dude, the ghost train haze.

20:17SpeakerI'm a big fan.

20:19BubblemanDude, I'm a big fan. I'll never forget Scott showing up at my hotel room. It was a while ago, like maybe 2015 or 16. I was at the Krasnopolsky in Amsterdam and he had a big fat jar of of the ghost and uh he was like wow you know i just i just got here i don't want to smoke at all like we just gotta it was a lot too it was like 10 or 15 grams and man i'm telling you he got there probably to my place around seven or eight o'clock and we stayed up till 4 a.m smoking on that shit easily polished off half of it i remember finally at like 4 a.m he's like holy shit i i gotta get out of here man like it was It was truly the experience.

20:58BubblemanI mean, obviously, we had just shown up, so we had that. It was easier to stay up. But I'll tell you, the ghost train haze is not the one to be puffing at like one in the morning if you want to go to bed at any point in time. That is truly stay awake medicine.

21:16SpeakerHey, how are you doing, Alice? Hi, friends. I apologize for my delay.

21:21BubblemanIt's Wook Sauce Alice.

21:23SpeakerYeah, what's up, everyone? It's a little Brazilian delay. It's okay, 20 minutes. We're good. We're good. Good morning. Nice, nice. You're in Brazil. No, I'm actually just a Brazilian, right? No, I'm in the United States getting ready for Barcelona. I don't know if anyone here is also going, but it's grind time before going, so.

21:47BubblemanYeah, I feel that. I feel that. It's going to be a good trip this year, though. Lots going on.

21:53SpeakerI'm anxious to see all the friends and to do the celebration that it's all about, like culture and love. Like I was even talking to Flynn about it. This is like my ninth year in Barcelona, y'all. Thus, you have to, ninth year you see me over there, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's such a nice meeting. You know, everybody's coming together. Yeah, I see the faces.

22:15SpeakerYou see me a few times per year. That's so nice.

22:19BubblemanThis year will be my 21st.

22:21SpeakerDamn, look at that.

22:23BubblemanYeah, 2004 was my first La Fiera High Life. I think it was La Fiera for some years and then Spanibus took it over. But yeah, we've been doing this for a while. Holy smokes, decades.

22:37SpeakerYeah, the sun evolved a lot in Barcelona. What's that? The scent evolved so much in Barcelona, you know, so much creativity and some of the best hash makers also are over there, you know, like really dedicated people, passionate people. So it's really nice.

22:55BubblemanI love it. I absolutely love it. I'm sure Nick and T could say the same thing, like, The reception in Barcelona from the hash makers, the love that those guys and girls have of hash making and their soil and their growing and just paying massive amounts of attention. Every year I go there, there's people that just come out of the woodwork from the north, from the south, from the east, from all over the country to just bring fatty jars of beautiful resin.

23:22BubblemanAnd it's been... I remember Soma and I, we used to have to bring our resin there, you know, and it wasn't until around 20, between 2012 and 2014 that both of us, I remember it was absolutely the most ridiculous scene ever because there was a documentary that we were filming and then Soma had a documentary that he was filming and when we went to knock on his hotel room, With all the documentary people behind us, he opened the door and he had all documentary people behind him.

23:53BubblemanAnd so they were all kind of like, oh shit, what do we, oh, we don't really want cameras on. And so there was this whole bizarre maneuver. Anyway, while they were figuring that out, someone and I were like talking about how it was one of the first years we didn't have to bring our own hash to Barcelona, which, you know, when things are highly illegal and borders and this, that, and the other thing, Thank you so much for joining us.

24:33BubblemanI mean, really, it might have evolved to the center of the cannabis universe at this point in time.

24:37Nikka TWe need to bring on some of those Italian hash makers from Barcelona. We need to bring some of them to Hash Church.

24:45SpeakerEverybody, you know, La Sagrada and Sly and all those guys, the nice homies, like... People that do it for the love of the culture.

24:52Nikka TSomething about the Italians and how specific they are and just, you know, something about their culture and hash making I love.

25:01SpeakerThey're a culture that like really respects terpenes and flavor in the first place. Like food is so important. It only makes sense that it would like translate directly to the resin.

25:13Nikka TSome of my favorite hash makers are those Italian boys in Barcelona. I love it.

25:18SpeakerI'll say this. My favorite hash makers is Heavy Resin.

25:21Jenn DoeLike, she's one of the most best.

25:23SpeakerHeavy Resin and Doc Hazed, yeah. Doc Hazed and her. They do one of the cleanest and most tasty hash I've ever seen. I'll never forget their peach. I don't know if it's not peach rings. Whatever that is. Peach and lemons. It's one of the best hash I've tried, like, till the day.

25:41Nikka TYep, they're lemons, limes, limes, limes, limes.

25:44SpeakerYeah, love that limes.

25:46Nikka TIt was like a lemon bean pheno he hunted.

25:52SpeakerI just want to throw this out there. This is only my second Spanibus coming out this year. And I'm not bringing my own hash. So any of these awesome folks want to share with Kaya, boy, holla. For real, for real.

26:04Nikka TDude, you're going to be loaded. I got the SSS on my passport. I can't. I'm like so watched. It's hard for me these days to bring anything. Well, there's no need to. I wish I could.

26:12BubblemanYeah, there's so much there and it's nice to... Well, for sure.

26:15Nikka TI just wish I could share, you know? I always wish I could share. These international trips are hard. People are always like, oh, what you bring? I'm like, nah. Dude, that's why I gave away... I got my DJ gear, you know?

26:26BubblemanThat's why I gave away more than half of my... Like when I do Masters of Rosen, I'll sample them twice. I'm left with like 25 grams. I just give it away. Yeah. Give it to everyone. They're so excited. My last day, I was trying to get rid of hash. I go to HQ. I say hi to David. I'm like, just going to give a couple of these away.

26:44BubblemanHe's like, right on. That's cool, man. Going to give away the winners. The first jar I give to this Lebanese guy, he pulls out like a kilo of red lab hash. He's like, oh, you got to take some of my hash. Breaks this like 20 gram chunk off. I'm like, dude, I leave tomorrow. I'm trying to get rid of my hash. It was unbelievable. A quarter of a gram turned into like, you know, 30 grams of hash.

27:08BubblemanAnd he wouldn't let me not take it. He was like, you're taking it. Sorry. I don't care. Give it away to someone else. I'm like, holy fuck, spend the last 12 hours of my time here just giving hash away.

27:21BubblemanA good Lebanese is so good that... Dude, it was so good. I hadn't seen good Lebanese. You probably see it a lot more than I do, but this was the stuff, dude.

27:31SpeakerLuckily in Europe, we can still find it. Right. Yeah, exactly.

27:35BubblemanIt's funny because when I saw it...

27:39BubblemanI posted it and people were like, that's not real Lebanese. That is absolutely not real Lebanese. And I was like, dude, this could not be more real Lebanese. I hate to tell you. I hate to break it to you. We don't fuck around.

27:58SpeakerYeah, yeah, yeah. You check that out, Dust? Dope. So dope. Oh, wow. The trees. The trees. Almost like an old school Chinese tea from like 30 years ago. I love that.

28:12BubblemanYeah, for real. It's definitely, it's something different. I'll tell you that much. It's good to hold On to the roots, you know, as a hash maker, I am 100% down with the new, new, whatever it is, the purified this and the only 90 that and the fresh bro. I love it all. Big fan. But I always want to make sure that I hold my tether to the history.

28:40BubblemanYou know, to all of that knowledge and information that Skunk Man Sam really brought into my world because I didn't go to Afghanistan in 1970 and smoke hubbly bubblies and collect those seeds. Can you imagine he brought all of those seeds back to Amsterdam and one of the Afghans cracked and it is literally the Afghan in everything in Amsterdam. Wild, man. History. You spending any time in Amsterdam lately, Dust?

29:12SpeakerNot so much. The weather is too cold and humid. Yeah, I feel that.

29:17BubblemanI feel that. You know, it was one of the things back in the day when Amsterdam was kind of the center of the cannabis universe and we all really just had to go there to gather. And of course, you know, we do it in November, towards the end of November, when the real brittle, cold, brutal weather would move in. Great for hash making, not so much great for sauntering around a city stoned out of your gourd.

29:40BubblemanTrying to find a restaurant that fits more than four people.

29:43SpeakerClassic.

29:44BubblemanAbout 19 people.

29:46SpeakerWe should all go eat. The city and the culture of the cannabis is so integrated in their life that it doesn't matter where I go, you know, when you go to Amsterdam, it's still Amsterdam. It has that little smell in the streets, you know, the people sitting on the terrace and smoking in front of everybody's face. There's not many places, even in the legal countries, where this is happening like it's happening in Amsterdam.

30:11SpeakerSo it's always nice. Too bad the weather is so shit there. Yeah, that's true.

30:18BubblemanWe have the signs at our airport where you can smoke out in front of the airport, but it has to be like in this particular area. And it is literally right where everyone drops off to go into the airport. That's where it is. Originally, when it first happened, they put us way down in between the international and the domestic and it was far. But now you can basically get out of your car and just light up a gagger and smoke that whole thing down and just walk into the airport reeking like weed and literally not have any problems.

30:50BubblemanI'll tell you, the legalization or decriminalization or wherever medical... Any of those that snuck their foot in the door, it eliminates them being able to use smell to get you. And without smell, I mean, smell was kind of, you know, how we ratted on ourselves, right? You either had someone who told on you or your loud ass dank weed would do it for the rat. They would tell on you, get you kicked out of hotels, get you, you know, my buddy was driving down this, driving his bike in Vancouver with a half a pound of Renee.

31:24BubblemanThank you for joining us.

31:49BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

32:11SpeakerAnd so that's... You also have that with the UK cheese. You know, you find like the real, real UK cheese. It was so pungent. It would go through anything. Yeah, exactly. Even sometimes if it had been vacuum, you know, just if you had touched the bag with something, it would still smell outside.

32:27Nikka TIt's the sulfur compounds that... Yeah. Excites.

32:30BubblemanLike that, yeah. Yep, exactly. So we have a good conversation coming up here on Hash Church. I've been working on this with the whole team at Abstract, Marshall, the PhD Marshall League from Voka Farms, Nick Ziegler, who did all the extractions for Yakima Chief Hops and discovered 1400 thiols, sulfur compounds in hops. As well as Jeremy Plum and Ryan Lee and Dr. Mark. It's going to be a heavy duty aromatic panel of going really deep and trying to understand.

33:05BubblemanI really feel when it comes to the aromas of cannabis that we're kind of just leaving kindergarten, getting into grade one. That's my personal understanding of it. I mean, a lot of us still call everything terps and that's just where we're at at this point in time. But I look forward to the day where we can perceive on that smaller, you know, insanely, insanely tiny. I think it's human nature to think, oh, if there's this many aromatic volatile compounds that are terpenes and that's like makes up 6%, Well, then that's the highest percentage of aromatic volatile compounds.

33:43BubblemanSo it must be responsible for the majority of the flavor and aroma. And I don't think that's how it works at all, personally. I think that terpene profile and terpenoid profile is like an upside down pyramid that sits on little grains of sand of thiols and thiolates and esters and probably compounds that I don't even know the names of. But those really fine, small, the ones that are dank.

34:12BubblemanLike the cheese, like that skunk number one, I'm sure that Renee was a skunk number one cut. I would bet my life on it. It was very much in between the skunk and the cheese. The only thing that was unique about it that I really loved is when you exhaled it, it smelled like a bowl of fruit, very much like Dave's skunk, but rank. And when you exhaled it, it just smelled like pure haze in the air.

34:39BubblemanAnd so and that's what he told us it was, was that he had crossed skunk with haze and got this very unique combination. I don't know if any of you guys ever saw Rene. I certainly helped popularize it back in the late 90s. I think it's why bubble bags took off the way it did, because I lucked out and met this gentleman who, you know, I probably told the story of my friend Mohammed.

35:01BubblemanI can use his name because there's like a couple million of them. So Mohammed, he was an Indian fellow, but raised in Fiji, but really Indian descent, if you followed his bloodline back. And he was a landlord here in Vancouver. And he would, you know, one day he goes and he finds his Vietnamese tenant, All of that is growing indoors in his facility. And he doesn't even know what it is.

35:30BubblemanHe's completely confused as to why this guy has lights. He's asking him what's going on. And the guy's like, please don't tell on me. Don't get me arrested, please. This was early 90s, so it was pretty illegal. And He was like, well, what are you doing? He's like, oh, and I grow these plants and I'm making like, you know, $4,000 a month. And that stuck with my buddy.

35:55BubblemanNot that he was making $4,000 a month, but that my buddy who owned the house wasn't making $4,000 a month. He was only making like $1,500. And that just like drove him insane. His business mind. So he basically... He's like, I'm not going to tell on you, but I'm going to evict you. And he photographed all of this guy's equipment. He evicted him. He took all of his equipment and then he went and bought this equipment.

36:21BubblemanAnd his first grow, and I don't know how he lucked out on this, but he ended up with this cut, the Rene. And he grew his first grow and it was like 10 pounds or whatever. And I somehow, I don't think I came into meeting him until the second or third grow. But by the third grow, this guy was harvesting like 80 pounds at a time. He had like, you know, done three houses up or four houses.

36:47BubblemanAnd then he started building and growing. And by the end of it, he was harvesting like over a hundred to 150 pounds, like every month. And he would just give me the trim because he had, first of all, in the early nineties, mid nineties, people didn't do anything with their trim.

37:06BubblemanAnd he would just give it to me. And that was kind of my introduction to the Rene. And when I first put it into bubble bags, It just blew my mind. It was the nicest hash that I had ever seen, very much like what Alice was talking about earlier with Heavy's hash. It was just the most, it was super potent, super flavorful, didn't smell or taste how it smelled in the air afterwards, but both were super high caliber flavor profiles.

37:35BubblemanIt was special. I would tell anyone, if you ever have access to being able to smoke some of it, Definitely don't pass it up. We all have our favorites, obviously. But for me, I like those ones that are just so rank. And I've told this story as well. I was smelling Renee after I didn't have any for a very long time. Walking from my kitchen to my office.

38:00BubblemanAnd it was just a doorframe. The kitchen was right here and the office was literally right on the other side, just like six feet. And there was a bookshelf on the right. And every time I'd walk through the kitchen, I'd catch this whiff of Renee. And it was like as strong every day. It was so strong. I was like, I finally like got down on my hands and knees and I was like under my desk and I was doing the tape thing with the masking tape where you stick it on the carpet and like pull it up just to see if you can see any pieces.

38:27BubblemanSuper ghetto crack action, Chay, I see you laughing at me. But I did it and in the end I'm smelling it and smelling it and it's sort of pulling me towards the bookshelf and I get in behind the bookshelf And I find like a small little fan leaf that would have been around a bud with a little stalk, just like just by itself, no bud. It was just like maybe that big, a little piece of fan leaf.

38:53BubblemanAnd I was like, this can't be it. Cause up close, it didn't smell like that. And if you understand how these sulfur compounds work, you can't smell them when they're closer, they blow you out. But when they're further, And that's why the sensory science of smelling these things is never to put them right under your nose. You can smell them further. But I took that little piece of it was so dry.

39:17BubblemanI powderized it in my fingers. And it literally like the smell that came up over my nose was just I just couldn't believe that a piece of flour, cannabis, and at that point in time, I felt like I was pretty hardcore. I felt like I was into cannabis at least for 10 plus years. Well, that blew my mind. And I think... I think that if breeders can secure genetics like that to work with in their lineage, that that and glandular males, that was the other thing from a breeding perspective that I always found, that the males had flavor profiles That the females didn't have alone.

40:02BubblemanAnd that if you brought an actual glandular male, and I'm not sure how many of you on the panel have seen glandular males, but I've been lucky enough to photograph them with Dr. Atomic had some really beautiful glandular males. And I think the first person to ever tell me about glandular males was DJ Short. He was the first one to talk about it.

40:27BubblemanHow you doing, Jendo? I didn't see you sneak in there. And Brian as well. Hi, guys. I'm good. Good to see you both. And Wook. Wook's in the house as well. I didn't say hello to him. Hello to you. Fine, sir.

40:42SpeakerHello, hello. How's everyone doing?

40:46BubblemanChilling on a Sunday afternoon, getting ready to get into it. You know, we're just kind of hovering, puffing a few dabs, enjoying. I got some of my packaging from Michigan, so I've been really enjoying like having my own packaging. My little wizard on the inside there. Pretty stoked on that. Yeah, check it out, curator. Get some ideas. Get some ideas. We'll be working on this very soon.

41:12BubblemanI'll tell you, though, like, let's look at the difference. You know, I just put some hash into the jar. When you have it in a clear jar like Calix, how much better does it look than when you put it in a black one?

41:28SpeakerAny consistency like melts and stuff. Yeah, you can't you can't photo them at all in the two gram irons if like once they grease out because it's like so dark in there. And once you put enough light into the puck to make them look even remotely like visible, everything else is all blown out, like all the highlights on the glass and everything.

41:48BubblemanYeah, it's a real issue because everyone buys these Myron jars. Obviously, those glass ones are different. They're, you know, the Calix ones in particular, which I've used quite a bit of. They're just, they're more expensive. And it does seem like... You know, your market for melts is a tight margin. You want to make sure that it gets out to the world and that people purchase it and use it.

42:12BubblemanIt's not a lot of people have a cold supply chain. So it's a little scary supplying beautiful material that is very much like I don't understand why cannabis can't why we're like, it's just too expensive. How can we afford to cold supply chain? Your resin. And I'm like, I don't know. How did the spinach people do it? Because spinach is cheap, but they managed to keep that shape.

42:36Nikka TI think melt should be direct to consumer.

42:37BubblemanYeah, man.

42:38Nikka TThat way you don't have to rely on these retails to keep that cold storage chain direct to consumers. I feel like the only way we can put out melt and actually have it represent what we want it to represent. And all high quality solventless.

42:52SpeakerOr actually in a traditional market, working directly with brokers that have logistics of ice cream, like you're delivering ice cream. That's what I was just going to say too.

43:03Jenn DoeYeah, it's not everyone that takes care of it like how it should.

43:05SpeakerBut Marcus, one thing that you were talking about, the Calix containers, I actually even wanted to ask y'all, do y'all like those jars?

43:17BubblemanI mean, I like them for quite a while from like a different perspective than just, first of all, when I put hash into a jar, how long do you think it lasts? Not long enough, let me tell you. So do I like it as a long-term storage, keep the terpenes secure? Maybe less than some other jars. What I liked about Calix, and then they sent me the black ones, which I was like, oh, that's what I don't like about all the other jars.

43:43BubblemanI'm a photographer, so I love to be able to see the hash when I stick my lens over the jar. Now, from the perspective of Well, there's different reasons, right? There's the photographer reason. There's the supply chain, like, oh, we need that jar to stay fresh for as long as possible. I think they're both different things. And I only really recently myself released melts into the market.

44:13BubblemanI have melts in the Michigan market. And when I make a deal in a state, I generally let my partners maintain some of the decision-making when it comes to What kind of jars are most receptive in their marketplace? What kind of jars are going to preserve the flower or the hash the best? So I wouldn't say I like them on all points, but I definitely like them from the perspective of photography, like shooting.

44:47BubblemanI like the square. It's different than round. The square pulls the eye differently in photography than a circle. And it's kind of, I like these ones as well, even though, you know, these are certainly not for photography. I think these are great jars. They're nice and big and open and let me see the hash and get right into the hash. And, you know, it doesn't, It doesn't hide the fact that this hash is spectacular.

45:12BubblemanYou looked at that and you were like, yep, that's the stuff. Whereas when I showed that black Myron jar up to the camera, it just almost looks like it's only the jar on the inside. What are your thoughts on that jar, Alice?

45:27SpeakerI want to share, I didn't do anything like the hashtag people, that they did a massive experiment on it.

45:32BubblemanI saw.

45:33SpeakerY'all know I like to travel with the Terps. And then when I travel with different jars, at least on a rosin, I had the same rosin being put in a Miran jar. And this jar here, Sorry, oops, oops, where's my camera? In this jar here and also in the Calix one, my rosin dried so much in the Calix one. When you have a head stash, right? You have like five or six jars with you and you are like, I don't know, going around with it for like a couple of weeks.

46:03SpeakerYou're in Brazil, it's changing the temperatures. For me, the Calix one did not work for like longer term storage. Like the rosin really got very dry. So, to be honest, at least to keep it fresh, I love the Maron jars, undeniably. But all the melt that we put, we package in these jars. And then if you remove the sticker from here, you can totally see the melt like...

46:30SpeakerThe melt melt, and when you put it like against the sun, you can see all that transparent like beauty when the melt starts to grease, so.

46:37BubblemanBut what's the seal on the top of that jar? Is it a white kind of silicone looking seal on the top of that black jar? Clear jar? If you open the lid and look on the inside.

46:48SpeakerI can't open it yet because it's just being taken out of the freezer, so I cannot.

46:52BubblemanOh, I see, I see.

46:53SpeakerIn a few minutes, I can show it to you, but. Yeah, I probably have one. There's just a little seal. But the rest is all metal.

47:02BubblemanSee, and that's what we're kind of talking about earlier. I would just want to know exactly what that is. And I would want to know how the off gassing of volatile aromatic compounds can affect it.

47:15SpeakerAs a generality, I love the Myron jars compared to everything that came before it for like a few reasons. I think the one thing that I absolutely love is there's the most room for art on that jar that there's ever been. So we have like really cool designers doing really cool independent things for special drops and collabs. And so it allows like a lot more art to just get entered into the market itself.

47:45SpeakerIt gives more work for the artists and it makes people want to collect them. And then also I like how deep and dark they are for hash draws and when I shoot photos because It creates this like really beautiful, like almost like romantic look to the hash when it has that cash shadow from being so deep inside the puck. And you have to like fight to get light in there.

48:08SpeakerAnd when you do find like a good pocket and you light it right, it kind of like, it just kisses the jar so perfectly. And sometimes you even get like a little bit of the blue from the cobalt blue, like in the corner of the jar. It's like so beautiful to me. Whenever I'm stacking, I'm doing final edits and I get like a perfect jar shot. I'm always like, I love the Myrons as far as aesthetics.

48:32BubblemanI wasn't thinking about the Rosin because I don't shoot Rosin a ton. I don't shoot a lot a ton anymore. I'm probably one of the last guys that still handhelds and does single macro shots. I don't stack and I don't generally use a tripod or a rail system.

48:51SpeakerYour hand is steady, amigo.

48:53BubblemanWell, trust me, if you do 5-1, if you do 5-1, ends like, oh my God, like it's... You just have to breathe a certain way. But I always tell macro photographers, no matter how good you get with the equipment, learn how to do it by hand, because there'll be moments if you do that, that you'll create to capture your art outside of a sterile environment that you're controlling all the variables.

49:19BubblemanI can photograph macro plants in a grow room where they're still alive. I might ask them to turn a fan off here and there, but I shoot those plants on the stock. I don't cut the plant and stick it in a little thing and then have a rail system with lighting all around it with a little button and I stand in the corner, which don't get me wrong, I completely respect that.

49:40BubblemanThe images are so much better than single shots, but the ability to take a single shot will increase your talent and your skills in shooting stacked. That I can promise.

49:53Jenn DoeSo doesn't that just directly correlate to making hash and the fact that if you start by learning the hands-on way, then you can move to the more automated? Of course. Very similar approach to photography.

50:08BubblemanI mean, unless someone's showing you that's, you know what I mean? Like I have had people come into my facility that didn't have hash making experience, but I showed them the recipe. That we learned to scale because we did it hands-on and those people made exceptional hash. I'll say the same thing about growing. One of the best grow rooms I ever saw was in Lugano, sorry, Belenzona in Switzerland in the South.

50:32BubblemanIt was Scott Blakey, Shanti Baba. It was his grow and it was all Callio. It was the most beautiful plants I'd ever seen. They were all seven feet tall, just reeking like an orange grove. And I was like, dude, what is your secret? And he was like, oh, I don't hire smokers. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, all those people in there, they're rose growers.

50:55BubblemanThey're garden, rose gardeners. None of them grow weed. None of them smoke weed. None of them have anything to do with weed. And I'm like, whoa, like, why is that? He's like, well, because it's hard to teach people who know how to grow. They'll just do what they want to do on my dollar while they're in my greenhouse because they obviously know everything. And he's like, these rose grower guys, they're not like that at all.

51:17BubblemanI just tell them, hey, instead of the pricks, That you're going to get from roses. Just don't rub your eyes because it's a resin and it'll burn your eyes. He's like, that's literally all I told them. And then I just gave them the recipe to grow the plants. And it was literally it kind of hurt my soul, Jen. I'm not going to lie. I was kind of like, oh, OK. Like I was like, but at the same time, You can't make that shit up.

51:41Jenn DoeYou know though, it's a lot easier to teach somebody than it is to un-teach somebody.

51:47BubblemanThat's right. That's right. And if someone's been, I think it was Carl Sagan who said, once someone's been bamboozled, it's really hard to un-bamboozle them, which you're seeing right now play out. We're not going to talk about this, but we are seeing this play out in the political realm of our world right now. But fuck those guys. Let's continue talking about hash. Banksy!

52:10Collin PalmerI think shooting handheld like you is respectfully an art form that is learned over time and you're feeling out the room using available light, looking for that light, asking someone to turn a fan down. It's almost as if you're prepping just like someone would with a five point perspective on lighting. To get inside that jar, you know, you know, like curator, you can understand that, you know, as you add more points on that light perspective, you can you can see more deep, you can see deeper into that crevice.

52:42BubblemanIt was super illegal too when I started doing the photography. So getting into people's grow rooms, A, I could do, but B, what I really wanted to do was I wanted to make sure when I left, they had no problems for the entire grow. They harvested, they sold it, they got all the money. And then I would be like, okay, now I feel good. Because every grow room that I would go visit, I would become a vector for that grow to be popped.

53:08BubblemanAnd I would become a vector for being, hey, we need to talk to you. Like, you have to come over. We need to, you know, all of a sudden I'm on a polygraph. That never happened because none of the grows I ever visited got popped. But I was very cognizant of that call. And I think because of it, I wanted to bring less equipment. I wanted to be more low key.

53:28BubblemanI never wanted to ask them anything other than maybe turn off a fan. And can I come take pictures?

53:56BubblemanI think it's a different game now because the photography is on such another level. Stacked images are so, I mean, really, it's a form of AI where you're stacking these images in such a beautiful way when the algorithm's proper. Because I remember when stacked images first came out and it wasn't proper enough to trick the eye. It couldn't trick the eye. You could see these lines through it.

54:20BubblemanNow it's flawless. It looks perfect.

54:26BubblemanI love it.

54:27Collin PalmerYeah, I mean, you've been adapted from, you know, fashion and jewelry photography, you know, and, you know, I learned a lot of that stuff, like image stacking in the darkroom. Like I was holding up images that I shot when I was a teenager of plants that I've grown. You know, I've kind of kept, I was going through 35 millimeter images in large format the other day, and I was realizing, like, I have thousands and thousands of images, and some of these are double stacked.

54:53Collin PalmerAnd I did that with an enlarger at the time. And I think that concept is really, to your point, Marcus, kind of gotten to a hyperreal point of view. I know I've used it as a hyperreal tool because when you stack like, you know, a bunch of literally 4K images and above on top of themselves, you know, you get literally hyperrealism. More than a viewpoint perspective, you know, you can take two cameras and then you can actually have some movement.

55:24Collin PalmerSo it's, you know, there's a lot you can do there. It's kind of awesome.

55:30SpeakerI did start just like you. Years ago, I was so nervous to go into people's gardens for a lot of reasons. I didn't want to ever disturb what was going on there or, like you said, put them in jeopardy legally from me being there with a camera and showing people what's going on inside, essentially. And then otherwise, cross-contamination, I was going to sometimes like three, four, five gardens in a week because I live in Maine and we have such a huge caregiver market.

56:01SpeakerAnd it's also like I'm in southern Maine, so it's really clustered here, especially. So I'd be, I'd always have to be very conscious of like, you know, not wearing even the same, the same shoes, not wearing the same clothes, going into places, making sure I'm suiting up, making sure I'm, you know, washing everything in between going, even my jackets, even paying attention to like what I'm bringing in my vehicle, what vehicle I'm driving in, like trying to be hyper aware, but always nervous that someday I might get a call that like, you know, I track one thing from one place to another, but that never happened either, luckily.

56:34BubblemanYeah, that's a big one. Powdery mildew vector. Oh, I'm now powdery mildew vector for all the grows that I'm getting invited to. That's no joke. The washing of the camera equipment is serious business. You got to kill all that. Those are invisible spores that can't be perceived by human senses without some sort of prosthetic. I thought I showed a photograph of some powdery mildew last week and it's it just makes my skin crawl every time I share this picture.

57:05BubblemanBut if we talk about powdery mildew, I usually have to I usually have to bring it up. And so there it is. The horrible little little like ant body fungus spores like Just nightmares growing all over your plants. And I'll never forget seeing people thinking that the powdery mildew was like, those are the crystals on my plant. Like 30 years ago, I was just like, dude, those are not the crystals on your plant.

57:36BubblemanThat is the fungus. Sorry, go ahead.

57:38SpeakerWhen I first got here, Marcos, and I was like literally trimming my first pounds of weed, I remember that someone taught me like, hey, put the flash from your phone. If it shines bright, our trichomes. If it's opaque, it's powdery mildew. So I learned that like... That's a good tip. They were like, yeah, you got to know how to choose the pack. So just use the flashlight, you know?

58:00Jenn DoeYeah, it's never a good surprise when someone's like, look at how resinous this is. And it's like, oh, I'm so sorry to have to be the one to tell you this. You should, you should relook at that, you know.

58:13SpeakerBut the nose, it's, it's like, you can't miss on the nose. Like, it smells like powdery mildew. Like, there's a, there's a smell. Musty.

58:22Jenn DoeYeah, musty.

58:24SpeakerYeah.

58:25Jenn DoeMusty, tickly, like, bleh.

58:28BubblemanThere's only one, there's only one worse smell than powdery mildew. And that's the people, no, the people who get powdery mildew. And then use sulfur to try and eliminate it. That is the bane of my existence.

58:46SpeakerSo many times in the hash in Spain, you know, in the beginning, like 2014 and all, you could literally smell a lot of the bubble hashing. Because people at PM, they couldn't sell the flower, they throw it all in the hash, and they sprayed all the shit, you know, during flowering, and it was terrible.

59:04Nikka TAnother big one we're smelling right now is chlorine from like hydrochlorous acid, whether that's in the cleanse or like a line cleaner or even the base of calcium and some of these salt nutrients. So, yeah, I'd say, you know, urea and chlorine are up there with no no smells. The real the real cat piss.

59:30SpeakerFriendly reminder, don't spray your plants in bloom. And don't ever put sulfur on them if you want to make hash especially.

59:43BubblemanOne of the things I discovered when I was photographing cannabis and I started, it was actually DNA years ago asked me to photograph seeds for them. They wanted to put it on the inside of one of their grassroot hats. And So I started photographing seeds and I was, it was really the first time I photographed like cracking seeds and, you know, I got all these great photographs of like, you know, the bitumen, that little membrane on the inside that like allows the embryo to slide out of the seed husk.

1:00:16BubblemanI was getting all these photographs and what I noticed was when the first true set of leaves come out after the cotyledon, which are the round ones, They have trichomes on them. They already have trichomes on them. The first true set of cannabis leaves. Now, I can't say that's for every cultivar. Maybe this was a special one and they were starting early, but I mean, trichomes have a job all the way through.

1:00:48BubblemanSo when the seed first, I wonder if I can actually find these because it'd be very good if I could find these pictures. I used to have them on my On my website.

1:00:58SpeakerI've seen that a lot also on the macros from Oscar, from Mr. X. Yeah, he takes great shots. Because he makes a lot of germinating sea pictures, you know, and maze and everything. Yeah, you can still see the trichomes very, very early, as you say, when it starts to open. Yeah. Actually, it's one of the things when we do those big, you know, we walk through the fields.

1:01:20SpeakerI always go kind of rubbing the stem a little bit as I'm walking through, you know, because sometimes some plants, when they start vegging, they already reek more like there's one plant that you're going to touch and you're going to say, wait a minute, it's smelling really strong suddenly. And I always mark those plants just to follow them up, you know, and in rare occasion, they end up being the best in the selection.

1:01:40SpeakerBut I try to spot them also because, yeah, you never know. I always keep them just in case.

1:01:48BubblemanLet me say this to you, Dust. Thank you for your service.

1:01:53SpeakerThank you. But it was not in my plan. So I'm super grateful every day for what I'm doing.

1:02:00BubblemanThat's a true service.

1:02:03SpeakerNow Thailand is so beautiful, guys. It's like everything you can do here is amazing.

1:02:13BubblemanYeah, I got to get back over there. I haven't been to Thailand in a very long time. But it's a beautiful country.

1:02:19SpeakerYeah, I mean, the people are amazing, but that freedom, you know, once you have all the license, all the paperwork, you know, and you can work freely on everything, you can send to Europe, you can send to Australia, you can send to wherever you want, you know, and now we're just finalizing the GMP area also. So yeah, it's like the whole circle, you know, the seed factory is here, everything's here.

1:02:41SpeakerIt's unlimited.

1:02:43BubblemanWell, good. Definitely got to give it up to you guys, man. From even way back, way back when I first met Arian, like he was doing it up. He was like he'd always had his haters. He always had people like biting on him and chirping to him. But he was just like focused. And this is what we're doing. Even even in the earliest days of the Cannabis Cup, what I saw in those and I went in 95.

1:03:06BubblemanSo like very much the earliest days of the Cannabis Cup, I saw. A lot of sort of like just a lot of the Dutch people just had disdain for all these people that were showing up. They were, it was just a cultural difference. They were annoyed by the way they were. And Arian wasn't like that. He was like, I'll get buses. I'll hire, you know, people to stand on the corners to be like, Hey, this is the greenhouse bus over here.

1:03:32BubblemanAnd he just like, he just opened it up to like cater. Thank you for watching.

1:03:54SpeakerLike his projects don't fail. He's the hardest worker. He works hard, dude. Every day I wake up at 4 and I go to bed at 1. It's non-stop, you know. We are both passionate people, you know. Everybody's passionate in the team, so it's amazing.

1:04:10BubblemanYeah, for sure. And RIP to Franco.

1:04:13SpeakerRIP to Franco. He was one of the big, big, big, big part of the spirit of the team. But yeah, we're trying to keep up with that.

1:04:25SpeakerFull gas? Yeah. Yeah, man. Full gas here. The bubble hatch from the full gas is amazing. Hell yeah. All those kind clovers, it's there. Nice.

1:04:37BubblemanSo you guys have a good hash making scenario going on down there? Tell us about that.

1:04:42SpeakerWell, now I'm doing, basically, I think we're, I think if we are the only one that have the license medically to do hash legally, so we can do like a lot of R&D and rosin and stuff like that, you know, for medicinal people. And yeah, here now, what we've been doing the first year, basically, I've been selecting all our seed bank over again for here, you know, because we always do new selection in new countries.

1:05:06SpeakerBecause we don't want to bring a cut that's been selected in whatever country, you bring it to another continent, you know, then you have to acclimate it for two years. So usually we always pop seeds where we go, make a new selection on site under the conditions of the sites, you know, and from there we go. So we did that the first year, second year, now I'm doing barrels, everything, all the strains we have, we've selected on 25 strains are finished now.

1:05:31SpeakerI did the other from indoor, outdoor, glass house, in dried flower, fresh frozen, dry sift, everything. So we're doing all the tests and we're getting all those values for the seed bank also. It's amazing, you know. So on our strays now we could say that clone when we send it here, you know, this is the amount of hash that's coming back in fresh frozen if you grow it properly, you know.

1:05:57SpeakerSo it's so many data that we can collect and give to the customers that are awesome, you know, and for us also, it's amazing to have it.

1:06:05BubblemanHey, give to the customer, give to the hash maker. Dude, that's like hash maker data gold.

1:06:11SpeakerYeah. No, yeah, of course. That's part of it. The yeah here the hash is still not legal recreational so most of the people that want to do how to do it from themselves but uh yeah still it's a growing market and it's still very young so it's gonna go good but man we found some really really nice tops here really nice flavors really good hash makers so it's amazing

1:06:39BubblemanExotic flavors unique to Thailand, or what would you compare the flavor profiles to?

1:06:46SpeakerFrom Thailand, we have two really nice ones that we got from the expeditions. One of that black mango thing that was really nice. And it's a really pungent, it has that like pungent, like the skunk, you know, but on the more fruitier side. So I don't think it has any relation with the skunk because visually it doesn't look like it and the area was really far away.

1:07:07SpeakerBut it has that real rotten fruit thing that sticks everywhere. I would love to know also what's exactly a terpene. That's one of the things here that the labs are not really up to date yet for the cannabis sampling. But yeah, that will be the next phase. But that one, that black mango is really good. And all the terpenes here that we found. The other one would be, it reminds me more like the Congolese.

1:07:37SpeakerThe other main phenotype that you have in Thailand that is like that is between the tiger tail and the squirrel tail. It's very, very close to actually also to the Congo that you guys have in Canada. So this is not really my favorite type of flavors, you know, but it's a great plant to grow. It's big flowers, super, super nice construction on the internals, you know. So yeah, it's beautiful.

1:08:07SpeakerBut I still prefer the Indian plants. I think from all the land rates we selected, the Indian plants were my favorites.

1:08:15BubblemanWell, you're living the dream, dude. That all sounds really good. Makes me want to go to Thailand, actually.

1:08:21SpeakerNo, no, you shouldn't. We have the facility. Come to the facility.

1:08:25BubblemanYeah, well, I'll definitely hit you up if I come to Thailand. Dr. Mark, you look like it's like the first day of teaching, like the university just started and you're the professor. You're looking good.

1:08:38Dr Mark ScialdoneI didn't get my haircut, I have to confess.

1:08:41BubblemanWell, it looks good.

1:08:42Dr Mark ScialdoneMorning, Mark. Hey, how are you, Jen? Good to see you. Brian, Colin, how's everybody today? Hey, Nick, what's going on, man? Yeah, Marcus, so I was just sort of listening after I was eating, you know, some breakfast or lunch or whatever you want to call it, that first meal on Sunday, right? And I heard chemistry. I heard someone say sulfur. And I'm like, oh, sulfur. Then someone said chlorine.

1:09:11Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I'm like, okay, they're talking chemistry. Let me go. I got to go to Hanahash Church.

1:09:17BubblemanWe felt your ears burning.

1:09:19Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, I think you said something about sulfur, right?

1:09:23BubblemanI'm just talking about like funky aromatic compounds that are different than terpenes and terpenoids.

1:09:30Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, it's, you know, sulfur, as you know, sulfur generates something called hydrogen sulfide. It does it just almost just being exposed to air, but a little bit of heat, a little bit of moisture, maybe even sunlight helps turn sulfur into... Bill Meyers, M.D. : hydrogen sulfide and it's super toxic for for like for fungus and for other microorganisms I mean it's a great. Bill Meyers, M.D.

1:10:00Dr Mark Scialdone: You know, ironically, in organic farming organic you always concern yourself with the chemistry of carbon and so like yeah what's allowed in organic farming are mostly like. You know, what are called biopesticides are sort of like, you know, secretions from other microbes that are meant to have antibiotic activity and ultimately kill fungus and other harmful microbes and everything. And, you know, those are the so-called regulated pesticides that are allowed in some of the cannabis jurisdictions, although there's nothing that's ever been approved For, for use on cannabis, but sulfur has just been used for coon's age.

1:10:44Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it's ironic because it's not organic at all. Well, I, I guess it's organic in that it comes from mother earth, but you know, there's no organic chemistry of sulfur. It's just elemental sulfur. It's S8. That's the formula, right? There's no carbon in there at all. So it's just ironic that that's, what's allowed in organic farming, which is supposed to be like carbon based kind of stuff.

1:11:08Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's been so widely used in agriculture because it's so cheap. And yeah, it generates hydrogen sulfide, which is the rotten egg smell that you'll probably, you know, smell in hash or any extract that has residual sulfur in it. And check this out. You know that I... We patented HHCA, you know, we were the people who hydrogenated HHCA. And before the farm bill, there was really no interest in HHC at all.

1:11:43Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd then we were contacted by an attorney out in, I think it was Vegas or something like that, that said that in this distillate product that they were observing, They were observing basically HHC, which is hydrogenated THC. And the kid who was on the case knew about me. And so he reached out to me and said, hey, Mark, you should know about this. And so as it turns out, I mean, there's a sulfur connection here.

1:12:16Dr Mark ScialdoneThe reason why they were seeing it is because if you have residual sulfur, In a dist or in a in an extract and you try to distill that, there will be a reaction that will basically create HHCA in your distillate. So when you when you distill over, you're not distilling THC anymore, but you if there's enough sulfur in there, you'll you'll exhaust the amount of sulfur in there by converting any THC to HHC.

1:12:47Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so I thought that that was interesting because HHC doesn't occur naturally in the plant at all. And when we saw this, I suspected that it was sulfur contamination. And sure enough, if you have sulfur in just an extract and you go to distill that, you could convert some of the... Stuffed HHC. It's interesting too. You'll see there's a product that's on the market right now that's two HHC to one CBN.

1:13:22Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what they're doing is they're taking THC and they're intentionally treating it with sulfur to do what's called a disproportionation reaction, which generates two moles of HHC for every one mole of CBN. And that's a product. That's a thing. That's out there. It's out there on the exchanges and everything. You could buy two to one HHC to CBN. And if you think about it, it makes sense.

1:13:48Dr Mark ScialdoneThis is our chemistry lesson for today, right? So when THC goes to CBN, it loses two moles of H2 gas, you know, hydrogen. So if those if those are transferred. So in going from THC to CBN, they have to come from somewhere. So as it turns out, the THC that's in there is also hydrogenated by another molecule of THC that's losing its hydrogen, right? So one molecule is a hydrogen acceptor and one molecule is hydrogen donor.

1:14:22Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd in a way to CBN, you lose two moles of hydrogen. So it basically sacrifices two moles of your THC and converts it to HHC. So that's a product out there right now. I think I'd said that already, but you'll see that.

1:14:36SpeakerYou can do it from CBD, right?

1:14:41Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what you do from CBD, there's a step between CBD and that, and that is the acid catalyzed cyclization ring closure of CBD to THC. Then once you're at THC, yes, you could then go on to HHC and CBN. There's actually catalysts that will take you Right. So the thing is, is in order to go from THC to CBN, you have to lose two moles of hydrogen.

1:15:08Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you need a hydrogen acceptor. And like when THC Marcus naturally converts into CBN, just being exposed to air, the oxidant Thank you so much for joining us.

1:15:47Dr Mark ScialdoneBecause that nail temperature and that heat and the fact that we're in an oxygen atmosphere, you can't keep that reaction from happening.

1:15:56SpeakerAnd the same happens in the Moroccan hash also. Moroccan hash always has a lot of CBN because of that.

1:16:02Dr Mark ScialdoneIf you move, if you move distillate, so distillate, you know, THC distillate is this extremely viscous material. I mean, like 50 times more viscous than pancake syrup, Marcus, for those of us who enjoy pancake syrup. We call it breakfast gravy here in Vermont. So, so yeah, THC is incredibly difficult to move around unless you heat it up. And so we use heat guns a lot, right? You heat up your jars or your beakers and that's how you pour your distal around.

1:16:34Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, if you ever see white smoke, Thank you for watching.

1:17:01Dr Mark ScialdoneSo H2 plus one half O2 goes to one mole of water. So what you're observing with that white smoke, if you're moving around distillate with a heat gun and things get a little too hot, that white smoke is basically just water vapor that's escaping. And it's an indication to a little bit of CBN, probably just a small amount just on the surface. But wherever things get too hot in the presence of air, you can't help THC's metastable and it'll eventually go to CBN.

1:17:31BubblemanAll right, Dr. Mark, I have a question. Yes, sir. What are you personally dabbing?

1:17:37Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, the latest and greatest from Jake, you know, I don't know. It's like, yeah, yeah, it's I got to go look at the wait a second. Is there a label here? Oh, Lemon G. Sorry, there's a label there. I just couldn't. The Lemon G. Lemon G. You know, Marcus, the other interesting thing I'll just say about sulfur is that In general, of all the fungicides that you could like, it's totally like more safe than using something like Eagle 20.

1:18:11Dr Mark ScialdoneEagle 20 is nasty. And when you heat up Eagle 20, it generates hydrogen cyanide. I'm not saying that you should use sulfur, but I think like if you have to clean out a room and get it completely like fungal free, like maybe sulfur products are good to use there. They're, you know, ubiquitous in the environment. I mean, they're used in our agriculture all the time, but I'm not saying that advocating for using it in cannabis, and I'm sure it fouls hash, right?

1:18:42Dr Mark ScialdoneYou could probably smell it in the hash.

1:18:46Collin PalmerYeah, fowl's flower too, but I mean, in all fairness, I think most nurseries these days use it because it's a good protectant against broad mites and that species of, you know, a class of really mites and super mites as we call them today.

1:19:02Dr Mark ScialdoneWell and you gotta wonder like even in the fragrance biome of skunky varieties are those sulfur compounds there for a little bit more? I mean again it's like I guess they're antennas that are directed out into the universe to attract pollinators or whatever like that but you know at the end of the day those sulfur compounds Which are super effective, even at the gassy levels that they occur in cannabis.

1:19:27Dr Mark ScialdoneCould they actually, you know, protect the plant from fungal invasion?

1:19:33SpeakerYou can see that. You can see that when you put many phenols in the same environment, especially in like If you're growing Congo and or in tropical environments, the cheese is always more resistant than the rest. The shiska berry was always more resistant than the rest. You could have like a plague of fucking PM or botrytis and things. And most of the skin crosses that were in a row in harsh condition would resist much better.

1:19:58SpeakerBut most likely those plants already had sulfur compounds or whatever is going to create Thank you for joining us.

1:20:26Collin PalmerYeah, I got a clone of the UK cheese that came to us that we sequestered and quarantined and then we got it tested and it came super hot for hoplite and viride and we did all these studies on it. And Kevin McKernan at Medicinal Geomics was really, thanks to Medicinal Geomics for allowing us just free reign with their equipment. We spent, I think, eight months to 12 months just studying this one plant and then going through cycles and flowering it and then we found When I put it outside in September through October, it got completely purple.

1:21:01Collin PalmerAnd all these anti-science just came through. And then I gave the plant to Kevin, and he tested that plant, and it was completely free of hop lane viride. And it was really interesting. So he took that, and he's been recreating this with other plants in his Jamaican Lion, and he's been finding success with this. But my point of saying this is that that plant in particular, what I learned from it is that it's really resistant to mold, PM.

1:21:33Collin PalmerYou don't see any PM on it. And it's extremely fragrant through, like someone said earlier, through the bag. It's almost like a sour diesel where it just wants to kind of just permeate through everything. But it's a really easy plant to grow. And I think it's one of those... Those ones I think isn't probably in a lot of modern contemporary work.

1:21:55SpeakerIt was always terrible for hash making because the resin was so oily and sticky. You know, trichome is so fragile. At the moment you put it in, because in the time you didn't have them, Cold rooms and everything, you know, but I remember I used to clog my bubble bag. Like if I make bubble hash from exotic cheese, it would clog my bag sometimes. And you had to have the perfect setting for the exotic cheese.

1:22:19SpeakerOtherwise you were fucked when the other ones were doing exactly what they had to do. But I still love it. It's in my top five, whatever happens.

1:22:27Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, the folks at Abstracts, I'm sure we're going to talk about this when we have that episode we keep talking about, Marcus, basically discovered that there's dodecanoic acid, which is a C12 mono acid that's super greasy and super long, right? Just a long hydrocarbon. That's the principal component for Cheese, the smell of cheese, I guess. I don't know if they've also identified that in actually cheese itself or things that smell like cheese.

1:22:59Dr Mark ScialdoneMaybe it's just some like, you know, anomaly in our olfactory spectroscopy that these things both smell the same, but you'd like to think that maybe it's the same molecule. But, you know, there's definitely a lot of different components that actually make up the high notes of any fragrance that you're smelling. But it would be totally interesting if that were actually the same compounds that were actually in cheese itself.

1:23:29Collin PalmerThe one thing I wanted to touch on before we got too far away is like Dustin, when you're collecting data, the one thing I'd recommend is try to get CFU data.

1:23:38SpeakerLike what viral loads are those plants collecting in terms of... We started this like three, four weeks ago because it's pretty hard to source labs here that can do it. Yeah. We did a test with two or three labs. So that's why now we sent four rosary samples.

1:23:57SpeakerWe have to anyway, because if we want to export the hash, we have to.

1:24:00Collin PalmerYeah, we're finding really strong evidence that every type of, every, you know, genetic makeup carries an ability to carry less or more. And it's just finding those within a population.

1:24:13SpeakerThat's funny you say that. We had exactly that comment with a friend like three days ago that, because he analyzed the other GMP lab in In our country, and then there is a lot of strain and he's starting to have the same theory that some strains genetically carry less microbials than others. It doesn't matter what, what grow environment they have. That's what he's starting to see on the accumulation of data.

1:24:39SpeakerSo We've talked about that here.

1:24:42BubblemanWe've talked about that in Hash Church. It's not resistance. It's susceptibility. It's a different spectrum that keeps them from getting it. So that for sure exists. Yeah.

1:24:54Collin PalmerYeah. And if you, you know, in a breeding program, that'd be very helpful.

1:24:59SpeakerNo, no, definitely. That's, yeah. But then the tests are still pretty expensive and a very slow process here in Thailand for that part. So... We're doing it on a smaller scale, but it's definitely something we are looking at also, especially now with all the German markets, you know, and Australia and all those markets that have super low CFU limits. I think Australia has 2000 or something like that.

1:25:22SpeakerSo yeah, we have to be on top of all this.

1:25:26BubblemanYeah. When you have your CFUs that low, like I wonder if you can really grow it regeneratively and organically.

1:25:35SpeakerIn organic, it's very complicated, I think. We're getting closer to the limit, you know, with a lot of protocols for the organic, because we would really love to do an organic line. Sure. It's complicated. To get without radiation to those levels is not easy. Yeah. No, I know.

1:25:56Bubbleman1,000, 2,000.

1:25:58SpeakerEven if you fart in the room, it's going to contaminate the plant.

1:26:01BubblemanIllinois is 1,000.

1:26:03SpeakerYeah, yeah. You guys have stayed some 500,000 or so in America. Yeah.

1:26:12BubblemanYeah, these are the problems of the growers and the hashmakers. I'd love to hear from any of the hashmakers on the panel in regards to how they sort of deal with Lab testing and passing scrupulous, intense, sometimes almost impossible numbers.

1:26:29Collin PalmerAsk them to plate everything. Don't settle for just a basic test. Tell them to plate it and see what actually grows. See what happens over time and force the lab to do that. That's what I've been doing. And we've been, we failed at first. And then we forced them to do this and make it a part of their protocol. And they have not found anything that actually is growing.

1:26:53BubblemanAnd what was the cost increased on that per test?

1:26:56Collin PalmerNothing. It was just an agreement that, hey, I don't think your test is complete. And it was more of a conversation. And they said, you know what? Yeah. You should take a deeper look at this. So that's my suggestion.

1:27:14SpeakerNow we're integrated to do, we're doing like, actually we want to try to see where this spike of microdome actually happens in, if it's in the grow, when in the grow, and if it's in the post-process where also, so we're doing like every, I think we did every eight or nine days, we're going to do the swab tests of everything, of every strain, you know, and yeah, we'll see.

1:27:37SpeakerThere's definitely the way the market is going, which is not my favorite part of it because I love growing the fucking plants and making hash and smoking it. So that's kind of the boring part of it, but it's a necessary part also.

1:27:49BubblemanYeah, if you want it to sustain yourself, you definitely have to like, someone has to be paying attention to the business aspect of it at one point in time, if you're in the business of it, which, you know, I think a lot of the people on this panel are.

1:28:09SpeakerI haven't had any issues and we have pretty strict testing here in Washington. And I've grown in every environment out here, indoor, outdoor, greenhouses. And we haven't really had any kind of issues with not being able to pass microbial stuff. What's your number? I don't have them in front of me right now.

1:28:31BubblemanNo, I just mean like the limit for the, like, what's a fail? Like, is it a hundred thousand or 50,000?

1:28:37SpeakerI couldn't even tell you off the top of my head.

1:28:39BubblemanOh yeah. I bet you it's higher than like a thousand, which is what Illinois is, which is insane. I think Michigan is a hundred thousand. I could be wrong. If I am, someone will definitely point it out.

1:28:53SpeakerIsn't that wild that they've got such a huge range of what is acceptable, you know, and is there, is there even really a standard and have these tests been developed for cannabis? Because it was my understanding that a lot of the initial tests were, they were actually stuff that was borrowed from other agricultural stuff and it didn't really translate. That's correct. Adjust things.

1:29:13Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's right. And one of the biggest problems, if I could just chime in for a second on testing in terms of testing for potency, is this unnecessary need to report potency on a dried weight basis when there is nothing that's sold at the dispensary that's dried. So what that forces the cannabis testing lab to do is determine what the mass of the sample is when it's dried.

1:29:39Dr Mark ScialdoneThat means they need to dry it. Guess what happens on drying? They lose terpenes. They lose things like they start, if these testing labs are backed up like a lot of them are, the testing lab business model is all about numbers of samples and COAs going out to customers. They're just like a machine, like rabbits in a spinning wheel, right? They just want to turn that thing faster and get as many samples out the door as possible.

1:30:13Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what they do is they usually put some kind of, well, they'd have to measure water content and how they measure water content Thank you for joining us.

1:30:42Dr Mark ScialdoneSo when you report like on a COA, you're looking at a concentration, whether it's in the percent or whether it's in what milligrams per gram, right? So that means for every one gram of flour, you have X milligrams of THC or THCA, right? So when you're trying to determine those concentrations, the amount of moisture, I mean, think about it. When you harvest cannabis, it's what, in excess of 80, close to 90% of its weight is water, right?

1:31:11Dr Mark ScialdoneSo when you dry all that water away, you're at various, you know, Changes in terms of the weight. I mean, if you're at 11% water, if you're 11.1%, 11.8, you know, whatever. I mean, all those things are going to matter. But now, in order for you to be able to make pairwise comparisons between labs on potencies, Thank you for joining us today.

1:31:56SpeakerI would say you could send you could send five samples to the same lab and get five.

1:32:04Dr Mark ScialdoneSo if you if you don't correct for them. So again, go back to this moisture content. The moisture content is really important to know because you have to know that you're below a certain threshold of moisture to make sure that you don't have live active microbial contamination. A lot of times, right, Colin, in your total yeast and mold counts, those are on the carcasses of dead yeast and dead mold that just happened to left their DNA on that sample.

1:32:32Dr Mark ScialdoneThat doesn't mean that that sample is unsafe to smoke and that you have live bacteria or fungus living on the sample. It says that at one point, probably during the processing, you know, drying, you know, we live... In a microbial world, folks, these spores are all around us. It's part of the dust off your desk. It's everything. In your car, you get it. I mean, there's just spores everywhere.

1:32:58Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you can't avoid spores from happening. But I guess that's the whole downfall of using qPCR because all that's doing is it's counting the DNA of not organizms that are alive on there, but organizms that are dead. But that's a whole different can of worms. Where I was going with this, again, was just going back to the accuracy of potency, especially if you're trying to compare them between different labs, is that they have to use that moisture content to correct for what they're measuring.

1:33:32Dr Mark ScialdoneWhen you take a live bud that still has moisture with it, when you make an HPLC sample of it, part of what you weighed out on your analytical balance has got water in it. So the reason why those numbers are all over the place, and if you think about it too, the more water you dry out of the sample, guess what? The higher your THC level is going to be, right?

1:33:54Dr Mark ScialdoneSo even if you wholesale all the water out, if you also remove some of the terpene content, now your THC numbers are going to be high. Now the people that are submitting those test results were, oh, wow, our THC numbers are higher than we thought.

1:34:09SpeakerWell, that was, that was a trick. You use it all the time. Everybody with the 30% and then you look at the moisture and it was 5%. You know, you're like, oh, okay.

1:34:19Collin PalmerWe sent six samples into the same batch and I dried them all different points. Right. And their limit is their top of the line is 15. Right. And that's where they're that's marked. That's where they can actually like start to read it. Right. And yeah, we got completely different results of the same batch. It was amazing. And I think that says a lot about, you know, your process.

1:34:44Collin PalmerLike, where do you, how do you cure it? What point in that moisture process are you going to lock that in?

1:34:51Dr Mark ScialdoneBut it totally makes sense, right, Colin, that water is kind of like the wild card. We don't know what, so, so, and when you buy nugs at the dispensary, you're not buying things that are free of water. So this need to report THC and other potency concentrations on a dry weight basis is fucking stupid.

1:35:14Collin PalmerYeah, it's like, you know, we get asked all the time, well, can you send in the fresh frozen to get tested? I'm like, no, like, unless someone read, like, you know, mark it in there and start reinventing the wheel. You know, we can't, you know, you're going to get back results that don't, they're just wrong. You know what I mean? They are not representative.

1:35:35Dr Mark ScialdoneArtifacts of prohibition, right? I think if prohibition goes away and the marketplace is able to level it out because it becomes an agricultural commodity, I think there will be some nuance to cannabis testing. But I think that, again, it won't be driven so much by, oh, how much THC is in there. Now, again, I sympathize with the buyer of the distro who has to look at, hey, you know, what's going to sell off my shelves?

1:36:03Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd if I'm a distributor, what's going to sell at my dispensaries? I mean, those people, they need some kind of metric, you know, and if they see a COA and one thing's got 25 and the other's got 16, Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you next time.

1:36:36Dr Mark ScialdoneTo me, that this is an artifact of prohibition because these businesses are so razor thin when it comes to the margins that they have to make. So they have to make decisions based on one number and one number alone. And that's the THC concentration, which I think we've convinced people here is a meaningless number.

1:36:55Collin PalmerYeah, that's what I was going to say. That's like, you know, we know through even So, you know, there's a lot of long-term studies that that's not from a bioassay point of view that that's completely can be backwards, you know, you know, in terms of, you know, total THC content and how that effect makes you actually feel, you know, there's strong literature and research behind that. But I also think that that's, like you said, it's borrowed from the alcohol industry.

1:37:20Collin PalmerLike the idea of a high percentage is. It's just wrong, you know, in a lot of cases. I think everyone here can contest this. You know, we've all been there and experienced it, you know, ourselves. It's really clear to me that...

1:37:35Dr Mark ScialdoneIt goes to show you they can count, but they can't read.

1:37:38BubblemanYou guys are talking about the inhaling of it, the using of it as like, of course, nobody wants just it to be about a high THC percentage when it's about, you know, how you enjoy it. But from the hash maker standpoint, from the company that's making hash, you think they want to buy a 14% versus a 25 when you do the exact same amount of work, but get a way higher yield out of the 25?

1:38:03BubblemanLike, that's where it becomes a thing. That's the thing driving it. Pushing it as hard as possible because those companies are operated by CFOs and CFOs are all about making sure that the margin can work and the company doesn't go bankrupt. It's not always about, oh, we need to make so much money we can all buy yachts. Sometimes it's literally just about we have to just make more than this.

1:38:28BubblemanAnd if we don't, we'll go out of business. And so there's that side.

1:38:33Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's that? We can't pay our people. We have to lay people off. Dude, absolutely. I mean, but Marcus, don't you think that's somewhat handicapped by prohibition? Because obviously, again, we're in a commodity market where free enterprise dictates that the cheapest, best, Product. Yeah, I'm saying cheapest and best on the same statement is going to be the winner, right? So, so mass produced. We've talked about this on Hash Church numerous times, right?

1:39:07Dr Mark ScialdoneMass produced cannabis has a market. Right. And that's different than probably the market that all of us would, you know, dig into our own pockets for because we're more of the artisan. The hash maker is more of the artisan. What you guys have preserved, you know, over the last 10 to 15 years in hash making will live for the next centuries. Right. I mean, people are going to be making solventless Nikka.

1:39:37Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you for joining us today.

1:39:52Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're again, there is a bifurcation in the market. There's the Walmart consumer who's just like, give me THC. I want it in a soda. I want it to taste like cherry cola. I don't care about strain this, strain that. I just want to get loaded when I drink my cannabis beverage. And that's it. And he doesn't care about anything else. Doesn't care about terpenes. Doesn't care about flavonoids.

1:40:14Dr Mark ScialdoneDoesn't care about was it solventless? You know, was it made properly? And it doesn't need to be. It's just the active ingredient. That's in a matrix of artificial shit that people are already buying shit tons at Walmart anyway, right?

1:40:29Collin PalmerYeah, it's like the half stuff. I tagged you in a thing that Kevin posted. He tested some, you know, pre-rolls he bought, you know, off of those, you know, THCA sites that are well-known brands from California. And he found my global counts 30 times in the CT. Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's, you know, That's, that's what people are, you know, we're, and then in, on the flip side of that, us that are, those of us that are in markets that are, have CFU counts that are low, you know, it's, we're held to a standard, you know.

1:41:05Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, are they buying a radiation setup and irradiate that shit before they put it into pre-rolls, right, Colin? And it's all good, right?

1:41:13Collin PalmerYeah. That's where my heart just goes. Why do we even do this? It's like, I don't know, man. Don't do that. Don't do that, man. Don't be like that.

1:41:23Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, no, no, no. I'm just saying, I mean, again, I think that's where the market's been bifurcated.

1:41:29BubblemanWhoa, the chat's going off on Dr. Mark right now. No, no, no. I'm joking. It's the word. We're just talking about it openly. They are. They love you. Trust me. It's what's happening.

1:41:43Dr Mark ScialdoneI love the chat too. Chat is good people. Bingo and PK and all you guys. I love you guys because, yeah, special family we got here, Marcus. And, you know, it takes losing our friend to, you know, realize how special what it is that we have here. And I feel warm and welcome every time I pop on the screen. So thank you.

1:42:09BubblemanIt's a good spot. Is your mic working yet, Bobby?

1:42:14SpeakerYou tell me. Is it working?

1:42:15BubblemanHoly shit, dude. Not only is it working, you came through like very clear and even louder than Dr. Mark.

1:42:24SpeakerOh, well, that's nice. That was great to hear from him. So I'm glad I popped in at that time.

1:42:30BubblemanYeah, that was like a... You were really dealing with coming in and out for a while. I know personally, when I do that, it stresses me out a little bit. Yeah, it's tough. You know, when I'm trying to run Hash Church and like also at the same time do, you know, troubleshooting on computers that may or may not need to be rebooted. Oh, there's a Black Miron jar from the curator.

1:42:51SpeakerYeah, and the light where I am is horrible, so I'm trying so hard. It really is such beautiful... Rosin, but you can't see.

1:43:02Jenn DoeHey, side note, Mark, I have some full melt sitting in Maine with your name on it if you care to hit me up after.

1:43:12SpeakerDefinitely, absolutely excited to hear that. I will message you as soon as this is over and I'll go wherever I have to to get it.

1:43:20Jenn DoeOh, it's close. It's by where I used to be at, so.

1:43:24SpeakerAwesome.

1:43:25BubblemanI've never been so bummed to be in a room with someone with my name than just now. Because I was looking down and I heard Jen's voice. It was all like soft and like a radio host, like of a morning show. It's like, this is the Grateful Dead hour. I'm Jen Doe. I've got some film out for you, Mark. I was like, I looked up. But then I saw the curator, Mark, all like, oh, and then I heard his voice and my world was shattered.

1:43:53BubblemanBut go on, continue on offering female to Mark.

1:43:56Jenn DoeI'm so sorry, Marcus, if you can get down this way, I have one for you as well.

1:44:01BubblemanI hope to come down very soon by August. I hope to be cruising around the U.S. and visiting a bunch of cool hash makers. You guys are on the list for sure.

1:44:11Jenn DoeWell, let me know. I'm working on a project in New York right now, so we would love to have you down.

1:44:18BubblemanOkay. All right. That sounds good, too. And New York is close to Vermont. New York is close to Vermont. I've never been to New York.

1:44:25Jenn DoeSo many good Marks today. I just realized that. Holy cow.

1:44:30BubblemanYep. Mark, Mark, Mark. We are on Mark.

1:44:33SpeakerIt's a Mark-heavy episode.

1:44:35BubblemanYep. I keep it, you know, proper with the C. Otherwise, it would be K, K, K.

1:44:46BubblemanI throw the C in there, throw that all out the window. It's all just good love with the three marks, but not three Ks.

1:44:58BubblemanBy the way.

1:44:58SpeakerNice to see you, Brian, since we have a moment.

1:45:01Bryan Best Friend FarmsYou too. Yeah. See you. Mark's a good friend.

1:45:06BubblemanThat's awesome.

1:45:07Bryan Best Friend FarmsA few of you, but yeah.

1:45:08BubblemanYou know what? Of course he is. What the hell, dude?

1:45:13Bryan Best Friend FarmsWe get down, yeah.

1:45:15BubblemanMark's really... What do you do, Mark? Oh, I just form and, you know, morph rosin and take epic photos of it. It's like, oh, where do you live? Oh, I'm in Maine. I'm like, oh, so you probably don't know Best Friend Farms. Oh, no, no, I don't know those guys at all.

1:45:30Bryan Best Friend FarmsWe love sashing out. It's definitely been a minute, but yeah. Mutual magicians.

1:45:36BubblemanOkay, here's a question. Did you dab those little guys?

1:45:42SpeakerHave I? Myself?

1:45:44BubblemanYeah, like when you make these little things afterwards, you got to get rid of them. Do you dab them out? Of course.

1:45:48SpeakerI typically, because I get to make it with such good rock most of the time, I will, I'll break it down, you know, I'll take them off wherever I have them set up and I'll put them back in the jar and try to keep them in one piece and then I'll slowly, you know, dab his leg.

1:46:06BubblemanI got to say, from a company perspective, I want, if I do one with you, I want the whole thing to be dabbed and videoed like super macro baller style. So the whole thing just like, oh my God, dude, that's probably like will become the value of it in the future. People be like, oh yeah, I love all that other stuff, but I just need the whole thing to be melting down in a giant banger.

1:46:27BubblemanThat's the one I, that's the video I need.

1:46:30SpeakerI've had people ask me lately, especially to do it because the stuff's getting more intricate and everyone wants to see what it looks like melting. I'm just nervous because the photo part of it, like if I introduce anything for my environment while I'm sculpting, I can remove it, you know, in my editing process. Of course. So incredibly hard at the level I'm sculpting when I'm making all these things and I'm having to make like these tons of these like little snakes and I'm moving, you know, I'm working with it sometimes for six, seven hours straight from the freezer back.

1:47:02SpeakerAnd I work in my basement, like I told you, my freezer is upstairs. So I'm like running up and down the stairs all day when I'm doing stuff I'm excited about. And then, and so obviously in that, during that process, there is a particulate in like things from my environment that I'd be nervous when I do the video that I wouldn't want to like misrepresent the maker's work.

1:47:24SpeakerI could definitely do it, but I'd have to be like, even I'm already thoughtful in my sculpting process, but like more thoughtful, you know. Maybe you could just add a disclaimer. Go ahead, Katie. Watching that little dude slide down the pin onto the banger would be a fire video, though, let's be honest. I know, I know. It's going to happen. I'm going to do it. I promise it will happen.

1:47:46BubblemanWell, you're not wrong because, and I've shown this video before, but rosin is super, especially when it first gets pressed and it comes out. It's very much like it's like static energy. It's pulling towards my finger on either side that I put my finger on. And so in that sense, it's like a tractor beam. For contaminant in the room, any type of dust or debris or anything can just get sucked into your into your rosin when it's that like charged.

1:48:21BubblemanI wonder if there's a way to ground the rosin before working with it and turn that off. So it's not like a little, you know, just pulling the contaminant out of the sky.

1:48:35SpeakerYeah, I think if we tried, we could accomplish like a perfectly clean sculpt, but it would be that, us trying to create an incredibly sterile environment and then seal that off while I worked and shoot inside of that environment.

1:48:50BubblemanA big, nasty... Thank you for watching.

1:49:09BubblemanBecause I have been you in the past where I'm like obsessive compulsively just trying to just just trying to release it as the most what I think of is the most beautiful perfect thing and this took me a while to figure out and it was really only for me you may figure out something completely different but what I figured out was that the majority of people Um, didn't always like what I thought my best work was.

1:49:37BubblemanAnd sometimes when I would just release a photo that I really didn't want to release, but I'd be like, okay, just go against your vision of what you think and let the people speak. And fuck, I'd be surprised often. And so why I'm saying that is I bet you, if you did a bunch of those melt videos, right, they went viral. The one that would get the most views by a mile would be the one with the big dark hair in it.

1:50:09BubblemanAnd obviously the hate that would... Yeah, so much engagement, Jen. People are like, what? What, there's hating I can do? Where can I hate? Oh, shit.

1:50:21SpeakerSo funny.

1:50:23BubblemanYeah, it's funny because it's true.

1:50:25Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, Marcus, we kind of touched on this over the week, but I think I looked into it a little bit and that was the whole microplastic contaminant issue. Do we want to go there? Talk about that at all?

1:50:42BubblemanI mean, I would love to hear what the panelists think about such a thing. And yeah, and then I'd love to hear, you know, what you what you found. I did a little research myself, not too much.

1:50:55Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. Well, you had sent me that long text from somebody. I don't know. Is that individual on the panel right now or no?

1:51:02BubblemanYes. That individual is called Brock 3.

1:51:07Dr Mark ScialdoneRight.

1:51:10Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I'll kind of get everyone up to speed. So what we were talking about is when there's bag blowout in rosin, you could basically get microplastic contaminant in the rosin itself. And so I don't think labs are testing for this because I reached out to two different labs that are really good. And they don't even know like where to begin. But there was a group at Lake Superior State that was looking, I think, in CBD oils.

1:51:38Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it might be because, again, they were at a college. So they had to do THC related stuff. And they just ask general question, you know, like in Canada, I mean, I don't know, man, microplastics is a pretty pervasive issue today in the world. And it's hard to think that somehow there's not. opportunities for contamination of microplastics in the plant material itself let alone in the process and i tell you marcus i did like look quite a bit on the web there's not a lot about this known but the one expert that got back to me from a testing lab it says yes we've seen microplastic and in rosin so maybe you know again just something to look for i guess especially i guess when you get blowouts in your bags

1:52:27BubblemanI mean, I mean, if you're worried about blowouts, I would also potentially be worried about the off gassing, depending on what this the screen is made out of. Yeah, it doesn't have to melt and blow out to contaminate it can off gas at a lower temperature before.

1:52:42Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, but if you're if you're off gassing, it's going to be it's going to be fugitive in the environment. I mean, could you contaminate the resin? Possibly, but I would think, you know, again, like maybe just under microscopic and scopic analysis and all kidding aside, you know, human hair is a very commonly found contaminant in all kinds of cannabis products from gummies to I don't know if I've ever seen them in vape pens, but I've seen samples fail because of human hair.

1:53:13Dr Mark ScialdoneI've seen actually flower samples fail because of what they assume is a deer hair because the deer like to brush up against it and everything. But, you know, I gotta, like, if you're pressing and you're heating the polymer up Certainly like these, like you said, like things like polyethylene could essentially start melting. I don't know if anyone has ever seen their bags melt before. I mean, that'd be, you know, again, a bag to want to stay away from because you certainly don't want it in these plastics.

1:53:47Dr Mark ScialdoneSometimes what they do is they put low molecular weight stuff that they call plasticizers in the plastic itself to kind of give it its flexibility. And if you remove those plasticizers, then the polymers themselves become quite brittle. So I don't know. I mean, I would want to look at like almost taking blowout material and putting that underneath a microscope to see if you actually see like small little fibrils or other things that could be from when that bag blew out.

1:54:23Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know. Is anyone familiar with this at all?

1:54:26SpeakerI'd love to jump in here and just point out that you don't even have to have a blowout. If you're collecting, when you press that bag, if you're collecting from where the bag was, not where the rosin poured out, but where the actual bag was on either side there, look at that and sometimes you'll find little particles from the bag. So if you're collecting that part of the hat, like we don't collect that part of the hash.

1:54:48Dr Mark ScialdoneAre you seeing this under a microscope or you could see it with your eye?

1:54:52SpeakerYou can kind of see it with your with your naked eye. You'll see you'll see pieces there on occasion. It doesn't happen all the time. But and again, that could just be contamination that was on the outside of the bag. Right. So you're working with it. You pulled it out of the deal and there's there's a little micro particle there or fiber. Right. And that's on the outside of your last bag.

1:55:12SpeakerAnd now that comes off and gets stuck on the paper.

1:55:14Dr Mark ScialdoneOK, so you said you said particle and you said fiber. So have you seen both fibers and particles? Yes. Oh, geez.

1:55:23Collin PalmerSo this is a phenomenon. I will say in 2017, when we were turning on a lab in Massachusetts, we were identifying, because I was like just macroing everything that we were making at the time because of the first run. We saw like a spread of black like hairs right and I was like trying to I was like what is this why why are there black hairs and then I pulled them out and had them tested and they were actually um little fibrous pieces from that were pvc from our our water line that was we had a black water line and it was a real learning experience then because you know you're you don't you're checking everything going around the lab cleaning and You know, is it the bag?

1:56:04Collin PalmerIs it, you know, something we're doing in the pressing? Is it, you know, what is it, right?

1:56:09Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you saw this in rosin, Colin?

1:56:11Collin PalmerYeah, we saw it go all the way through the process, from hash, and it seeped right through the bags, all the way into the rosin-finished material. And when I macroed it, I was like, yeah, this has all got to be thrown out, guys.

1:56:22Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you had to see that under a microscope? You couldn't see that with the human eye?

1:56:25Collin PalmerYeah, I couldn't see it. I could taste it, I'll tell you that. I was like, this tastes weird. Oh! Yeah. I remember calling my cousin, and he's like, yeah, dude, I agree. So we had to figure it out. And, you know, so sometimes it's not what I'm getting at is that sometimes it's things that are pre-processed that are affecting the process that will follow, you know, follow you through that linear process.

1:56:53Collin PalmerAnd then, yeah, like from the bag perspective, you know, I've worked with Pure Pressure pretty closely before they were bought by Agrify. And Ben and I were doing the bag that had the double stitch and the liner. So it was double bagged. And that's a, you know, we learned a ton that, that yes, there is off gassing. And I think the one thing that should be talked about is the set point.

1:57:17Collin PalmerLike for instance, if you're making THCA and you're doing an hour long press or whatever it's taken to get, get through that, whatever amount of Miller, you know, particular bag that, you know, whatever you weigh that out to be that hour long is go at whatever temperature you're ramping up to, um, That's a long time to be using that bag. Those materials are not designed to be under there for that long, under that set point of temperature.

1:57:45Collin PalmerSo that's one thing to talk about. But I don't think there's any evidence that I've seen that there's been any carryover of chemical constituents that are in the material.

1:57:56Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat are those bags made out of, Colin?

1:57:59Collin PalmerI was actually just looking. I was trying to go to the peer pressure site. And now that they're bought by Agri-Fire, the whole store is gone. I can't even like I have to go through the documents to figure out exactly what the chemical or not the chemical, but the actual material is because I don't want to paraphrase on the show.

1:58:14Dr Mark ScialdoneLet's hope it's not PVC, right?

1:58:17Collin PalmerI don't think it is. Say that again.

1:58:20Dr Mark ScialdoneLet's hope it's not PVC. Marcus, are you at liberty to say like what your rosin bags are made out of where you're producing?

1:58:29BubblemanIt's Nitex. It's the one you want. The one you don't want is polyethylene.

1:58:36Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what is Nitex though? What's the material?

1:58:40BubblemanIt's food grade nylon monofilament mesh.

1:58:44Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay. Nylon is going to have a super high Decomposition point. I mean, nylon, I think is exactly.

1:58:51BubblemanGot a higher temperature. It's like twice the temperature it can exceed than polyethylene. Polyethylene is the one you don't want to use. You can use that for water extraction bags. No problem. It's heat stamped. It holds its form, but you wouldn't want to press it. Right.

1:59:11Collin PalmerWe talked about True Micron before on the show, you know, using stainless. And I don't know what anyone else is using out there, but I've gone through the gamut. And I like stainless steel a lot as a make a patty and you just fold it into it.

1:59:27BubblemanRackham's just rolled in, driving his car. Sunny day. All right, dude, I'll make an appearance. Etienne Fontaine is in the house. How you doing, brother?

1:59:39Etienne FontanGood, y'all. Had some interesting stuff happen this week. I have a FOIA request with the government and found some very interesting information. And then, yeah, getting ready to go to the UN this week. So... Busy week. But love to see y'all. But everybody's doing well and love this subject. So has anybody looked at the melting points of all of these sheets in the sense of, you know, when this stuff might peel up off the rosin to see, you know, what temperature ranges, you know, some of this stuff might be picked up at besides the squishing stage, you know?

2:00:19BubblemanYes.

2:00:23BubblemanAbsolutely. That's why Nitex is the one you want to use more than polyethylene. Because of the temperature variation. The polyethylene is like 230 or something.

2:00:37Dr Mark ScialdoneAren't looking at any contamination like this in rosin, at least down here in the US.

2:00:44BubblemanAnd I think to- My gut tells me there's not a lot. And I only say that because I'm just sensitive and I've smoked so much great rosin. And I just, I think if there was some, I mean, I'm definitely eager to find out the truth because I truly don't know. What about-

2:01:01Nikka TWhat about talking about like even just the seals on the Uline jars when we're heating up these jars for longer periods of time for either decarboxylation or phase changes for carts? Not good.

2:01:13BubblemanHave we tested any of that? That's definitely not good at all. I use a rosin reactor myself and it just, you know, it's all glass and the aromatics that precipitate back into a liquid at the top can all get back into the We'll be right back.

2:01:47BubblemanThank you for watching.

2:02:02BubblemanAnd so I've always just thought that that's not ideal myself, but I use my own olfactory. If it doesn't make me feel sick, I usually feel pretty confident that what I'm consuming is pretty good. And I feel like a lot of the people that I hang out with seem to have a fairly high Awareness level of trying to pay attention to as many of these things. It is crazy how just lacking a little bit of awareness, you could be like, oh, I didn't realize I was inhaling poisons for the last 15 years.

2:02:33BubblemanIt's like, oops.

2:02:36Bryan Best Friend FarmsWelcome to being human.

2:02:37SpeakerI kicked myself forever taking a dab of BHO.

2:02:46BubblemanMe too, dude.

2:02:48SpeakerI knew the first time I smelled it, I was like, this can't be fucking good. I'm telling you, bro.

2:02:54BubblemanI'm in the same boat. I got a wicked headache. And then Buddy didn't believe that I had a headache. He was like, you're making it up. I'm like, I'm not making it up, dude. I have a fucking migraine headache now. Trust me. I know what a headache is. I'm very glad. In that sense, I will say I am so grateful for Rosin. For displacing BHO, putting BHO where it belongs with people that love it, with people that know how to make it, with the right, it's got to be the right group.

2:03:24BubblemanIt's got to be that right class one, div one rooms, chemistry, like amazing. My friends that love it, they love it. They're so, so happy of the flavor profiles, the fresh frozen runs. They just fucking love it. And I would fight for their fucking rights to love it.

2:03:41SpeakerThat being said, I feel like those guys, a lot of them are fucking it up today with all the filter stuff. Like the dudes that really know how to do it, they don't use all the filters and stuff, you know, and they can make good product. It's not my cup of tea, but yeah, I agree with you.

2:03:56BubblemanI'm just so happy. I'm so thankful for Rosin just rolling through, mainly for young people. Because I thought, you know what, what a great thing for younger people, rather than be like, let's go buy cans of butane and potentially put all of our lives at risk. And have a bunch of people in the room with us that failed like grade 10 chemistry. Let's do chemistry with all those people that couldn't pass chemistry.

2:04:24BubblemanLet's do that. That'll be a good idea. And the repercussions were so severe. And it's not like they were happening every single day, but they were happening often enough that, you know, younger people were getting in explosions and getting burnt and just nightmare stories that I thought, you know what, this is, and I get it like being in like, Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:05:13BubblemanI kind of at one point in time said, this is worse. The only thing that was worse than this is the DEA and their involvement in cannabis because I'd never really heard of people getting really badly injured and or dying from like just making an extract. Like it seemed like a meth. And in Vancouver for a while in the 90s and early 2000s, I personally don't like making solventless.

2:06:05BubblemanAnywhere near a solvent lab. I'm not a big fan. Personally, I don't know how I can see Kai is already shaking his head. I don't know how you guys feel about that.

2:06:14SpeakerI don't even like walking through a BHO lab. I don't even want to see it. Cool.

2:06:20Jenn DoeI want to see it, but every time I do, I'm nervous too.

2:06:25SpeakerYeah, way nervous. And it stinks. I'm sorry. It stinks. I don't like that smell. I can't do it. That's what I was going to say. Smell for me is the same thing. It's going to contaminate your hash smell if you're making it next door. It's everywhere, right?

2:06:39BubblemanI'm definitely very much the same way.

2:06:41Jenn DoeI really have to trust the extractor that I'm seeing there, C1D1 Lab. Otherwise, it's very concerning. Back in the day, what would it have been like in Washington? It was like 2013, early 2014 when they did like Operation Shattered, where they were going after a bunch of BHO labs because that's when all of a sudden we had like... I feel like there was like six months of like just explosion after explosion after explosion.

2:07:09Jenn DoeThat's actually what sent me in the direction of Waterhash myself was realizing, you know, that like I have kids and if I'm going to be doing this, I definitely want the safety there. And just seeing just like the ignorance of people doing it, you know, that's, yeah.

2:07:28BubblemanWell, thank God for Roslyn filling the gap because the bottom line is, The melts are just rare. And it's like if everyone was growing melt and making melt, rosin might not exist. But because everyone isn't growing melt and making melt, I mean, you can purify that four star and five star into some pretty incredible product. It is pretty mind blowing. I don't know why I feel this.

2:07:57BubblemanIt's probably a bias, but I do feel like melt is more like a four course meal versus rosin, which is often like a dessert for me. I really love the dessert aspect of rosin. Am I delulu? Or is this something that you guys have experienced yourselves?

2:08:14Jenn DoeI think rosin brings us the ability to have more of those flavor profiles that we can't find in melt because we're not able to achieve a melt consistency.

2:08:23BubblemanYeah, well said.

2:08:27Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, you know, just considering the chemistry again, I'm a consumer of closed loop hydrocarbon extract. When it's properly made in a C1D1 facility, there are no fires. I've set up several labs and not had an accident whatsoever because we're using the right equipment and we have the right SOPs. And I think when made properly, and I'm talking about live resin, you know, it's a wonderful product that I think complements solventless products wonderfully.

2:09:04Dr Mark ScialdoneI like them both. And I don't know why we can't like them both. I think a solvent is no longer an issue if you're down to zero ppm and there's nothing left. Now what you have is just the extract from the plant. So it's just a different way of making extracts.

2:09:23BubblemanSo what's wrong with us? Why do we not like it?

2:09:25Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, no, nothing's wrong. No, I think, Marcus, you said that this is... No, because what you just said is totally sensible.

2:09:32BubblemanBut then I'm just like, okay, well, what is it? Is it my bias because I'm the bubble man? Is it like being a vegan where everyone else has to be a vegan?

2:09:41Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, not at all. Not at all. Well, I think you and Nick and Cuban and everyone that's done who's ever made hash is kept this tradition of high quality artisan product alive. We've always said that, you know, cannabis is like an apple tree, right? And, you know, just take an apple tree and shove it into a blender. Thank you for joining us today.

2:10:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, Jen, I met those guys up at Extracted, Ryan and those guys, and they were working with Chris Barone, and they were still trying to figure things out. Like they knew that certainly you can't leave solvent back in your product. You know, we had the nice solvent episode here, Mark. Remember we had...

2:10:45Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's his name? Heisenberg on, you know, I mean, these guys, again, we're trying to figure it out. And I think where solvent extracts are today is, and I'm going to use your language, Marcus. It's another arrow in the quiver, right? It's just another representation of what this wonderful plant produces, just made in a different way. Do I love a good solventless hash? Yeah, I got my boy trainer here.

2:11:12Dr Mark ScialdoneWe wanted the best hash makers up in Vermont. And yeah, totally just old school. That's what it's all about, you know, trying to get the most quality product from the plant. But in the large commercial operations, you know, solvent extraction, Will beat solventless in scalability when it just comes down to, you know, equipment and staff and all that and footprint. And, you know, you probably proved me wrong, Marcus, right?

2:11:45BubblemanI see your challenge, sir, Mark, and I accept.

2:11:49Dr Mark ScialdoneBut I think, again, I think they're complimentary in a way. And I love it when a market like Los Angeles is sophisticated enough to have great, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:12:23Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd there were a lot of us, including myself, who weren't naysayers, but we were super skeptical going into that. And there it was amazing. It was amazing church episode. He squeezed oil and made a lot of us believers in real time right there on hash church. That was an epic show.

2:12:42Jenn DoeI think a lot of our preferences with some of us, I think a lot of our preferences also might come from like early exposure. Like, what did we have access to? Like, especially a lot of the solventless lovers, since there wasn't, you know, a whole lot of access for these people yet. Like, naturally, we're going to lean heavier into that. But I was pretty blessed to be surrounded by some really amazing BHO makers.

2:13:08Jenn DoeAnd so I I'm kind of with you. Mr. Scaldone, since we got too many marks.

2:13:15Dr Mark ScialdoneDr. Scaldone.

2:13:17Jenn DoeDr. Dr. Scaldone.

2:13:19Dr Mark ScialdoneMy mom would be mad. Oh, my God. Sorry.

2:13:23Jenn DoeYeah, just like early exposure. Like, what did you have access to? You know, and that goes on the other side, too. It's not just the access to the good solvent list to make us desire that. But what about access to terrible solvent? You know, versus a good quality, because again, there was not a lot of really good quality out there.

2:13:44Dr Mark ScialdoneBut yeah, during the open blasting years, it was it was it was terrible. And I don't even think they did a full, you know, vacuum evacuation, right?

2:13:53Jenn DoeThey were just on it depends. It depends. I mean, there's way to there's ways to achieve zero PPMs without a vacuum chamber. You know, but a matter of putting in that time and understanding the process and what's going on, like not a lot of people had that. So, yeah, I don't know. Some of us just I feel like I lose sight of the fact that not everybody has access to the things that I do.

2:14:20Jenn DoeAnd so you have to kind of take yourself down a level to think like, what is most people have access to? But yeah, I mean, I'm not biased because I didn't have to start with really shitty BHO. Like I started with really great BHO and then got to move into really great solventless. So not everybody has access to that. And when I think back on the nostalgia of it, like, yeah, a lot of it's nostalgia for me.

2:14:48Jenn DoeWhen I dab some really fire ass fucking shatter, I'm just like, oh my gosh, this brings me back to 2014 so much.

2:14:55BubblemanSo, goodness. Rackham set his hand up. He was, he might take us back a few minutes in the convo, but go ahead, Rackham.

2:15:05SpeakerNo, I was just going to say, I mean, I really appreciate the fact that Rosin has been around for as long as it has been. It's just an amazing thing overall when it comes to the fact of like how many different types of consistencies you can even turn Rosin into, you know, for the fact that Hash Ashish, loose resin, it's only in its purest form is its only way it can be consumed until you manipulate that under heat and pressure and then do a curing process, nucleation process, or whatever you want to consider it or call it these days.

2:15:40SpeakerBut the fact that we learned how to do jams from rosin, which is the same kind of manipulation as a library as far as the crashing aspect of it, going into the mechanical separation of diamonds and the THCA from the terpene fraction, the cold cures, even now carts and whatnot. There's just so many other available avenues.

2:16:04SpeakerIt's all unique compared to health. If that makes sense, right? That's kind of one of the cool things that I loved about it and kind of drew me to is like, oh, I can make how many different skews from one from flavor or one different strain, especially if you're going into the white market and not the traditional, but even nonetheless, it's just a beautiful experience overall. And it's kind of hard to compare true five, six star to its its opposite, which is a it's a.

2:16:37SpeakerLike you're essentially, it's a, what's it called? When you make rosin from hash, from loose resin, it's a bummer because you're leaving things behind. But it doesn't mean it's a negative thing or a bad thing. It's just, it's a different, in my opinion. So it's kind of hard to compare them when we're always saying, well, it's hash rosin or it's rosin hash or vice versa. That conversation popped up on social media just recently and everybody got all freaked out about it.

2:17:07SpeakerWhich was intentional. It was a troll. Of course.

2:17:10BubblemanWell, because people are so divided. Once again, it's why we're always like, it's like when I'm asking Dr. Mark, well, why is it that I like only the solventless? What's wrong with me? If what you said is true and this is just such a beautiful thing and I see people lighting it up in the chat room. I love the BHO. I used to. Oh, yeah. I love the flavor for me.

2:17:29BubblemanIt's just, I can't, I can't do it. I can't do it myself. At the same time, I also couldn't probably press Six Star Bubble into Rosin. But do I love the fact that all the bubble that isn't Six Star, and let's just say most of the bubble out there isn't, it now has a home in Rosin. And that's why when you're like, oh, Rosin just does all of these different SKUs, it's like, exactly.

2:17:54BubblemanSo what Rosin is allowing... Is rosin, and not to say that the melt couldn't exist without rosin, but rosin is a helpful SKU to allow yourself to have a melt SKU or two to get that out onto the market and have melts available. Because, you know, it's getting basically funded by the rosin sales that you're doing.

2:18:18Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, Marcus, let's ask ATN, since ATN's got, you know, a nice window onto a retail situation. ATN, what have you seen like in the last, you know, well, since rosin's been introduced and certainly like in California, there's robust markets for concentrates. There are connoisseurs like us who care about solventless versus not solventless. So what are you seeing in the marketplace at BPG and other related establishments? Like, has there been sort of like an education on rosin versus your BHO concentrates and what's happening in the marketplace?

2:18:58Etienne FontanThe consumer comes in a pre-educated so it's it's not really a bunch of education i want to credit marcus and others for putting out that data information back in 2017 so people started to understand and the cannabis consumer is pretty educated now it's really rare that we get a new consumer looking for concentrates right most are looking for you know the newer things that aren't going to get them Where are they going?

2:19:25Etienne FontanI was originally turned on by older patients who were using a BHO because that was what was available prior. And I was curious on why they were spending such a large amount on such a small amount of cannabis. And it became for them quality over quantity. One hit worked for them. And so as I started to get into it, I blended all of my water hashes together for years.

2:19:59Etienne FontanI have an ongoing, everlasting gobstopper that's been going since 2004 that I keep adding to. But at the same time, I blend all my BHOs. I blend all of my rosins together. I know a lot of y'all are cringing and absolutely disgusted, but that's what I tend to do. But I do it in an autoclave and I heat it up to about 140 to 150 and I mix it all together.

2:20:28Etienne FontanThat's what works for me because I like the full cannabinoid spectrum. But for most patients, I've seen a switch from BHO where we've been heavy toward BHO. We used to see a lot of PHO prior to 2018, but post 2018, there's only a few manufacturers that put out PHO. So it's very rare to see. You can usually tell by the extreme orange color that tends to follow alongside with that.

2:20:58Dr Mark ScialdoneSo just tell them what that is in case they don't know.

2:21:02Etienne FontanIt's using propane. It's using propane as opposed to using BHO. um it's a it's a solvent it's an extract and it will pull the resin it just tends to make it a real um non-natural orange color it looks way too much like a united states uh uh orange dye number 40 or whatever it's called you know it just does not look natural butter Exactly. It looks like something that would come out of the bottom of a baby.

2:21:36Etienne FontanNo offense to any babies. So recently we've seen the advancements, right? In 2017, right, when we were doing the first shows, everybody was using, you know, a hair straightener. So nobody really came out with anything until the industrial presses came out. And then we started to see products sparingly because they hadn't figured out the right temperatures, things buttered. They then had to figure out how to package it properly, of which it's still, in my opinion, too oxygenated.

2:22:08Etienne FontanWhereas only recently are we seeing companies like 710 who are putting out six star and then keeping it refrigerated all the way until even I receive it. And of course, we have a refrigerator strictly for concentrates. But lately, the high quality of rosin is comparable or better priced now than a lot of the BHO. So I think judging from going into my freezer weekly and looking and purchasing myself, I see us headed definitely more toward rosin and the consumer tending to lean toward rosin.

2:22:46Etienne FontanYou're always going to have those that are strictly BHO, etc. Again, I know everything is tested. I help pioneer testing, so I'm pretty confident in what I have, which is why I buy and test everything myself to make sure I'm not tasting anything funny or looking for contaminants myself because the last thing I would want was what Colin talked about, but I have found odd fibers in retail product because it does...

2:23:14Etienne FontanOccasionally get through. Now this is the stuff more towards 2018 than today. So I think that the advancements in the technology of rosin extraction competent workers who now know those ranges and how to functionally use those machines properly and then maintain also the room temperature cleanliness etc you're seeing a product coming forward that's affordable now whereas earlier on the amount of processes that you had to go through was initially cost prohibitive but due to the cost of cannabis coming down and i mean uh you know pounds going for anywhere from 50 to 100 in some areas of california dollars fifty dollars to a hundred dollars and only uh processed to order because people can't afford trimming so that's how serious the price of cannabis and production has come down so The access and availability and consistency is there that was no longer possible.

2:24:24Dr Mark ScialdoneIf I could just ask a quick question, what prices are you seeing at the retail level for rosin? Like, give us a range. And what are the wholesale prices? So when you're buying wholesale, what are you paying versus what the consumer pays at the dispensary?

2:24:42Etienne FontanI don't have all that in front of me. For the most part, I want to say it's anywhere from 30 to 50 gram. Whereas when I was in Hawaii, It's $96 a gram for rosin because it's pressed on that specific island and everything is really a closed loop system. They have to packaging and all that, which is still way too expensive per gram, but the quality was absolutely outstanding.

2:25:18BubblemanDamn, $96. That's like a 1800 Canadian.

2:25:22SpeakerWhat island was that?

2:25:25Etienne FontanMaui. Mally, Mally Brown.

2:25:31Dr Mark ScialdoneSo is there a lot of margin in there for the hash maker itself? So like if you look at the distribution supply chain in California, so there's the producer, then there's the distributor, then there's the dispensary. What kind of margin does the hash maker share in that tremendous up pricing at the dispensary?

2:25:55Etienne FontanScott, it's getting smaller and smaller because the prices are coming down because of the process of the product is coming down. So it's been a, you know, like any other agricultural crop, a race to the bottom. It's been no longer sustaining high prices in that sense, which is why we're starting to see the $30 retail, the $35, $40 retail products because, you know,

2:26:22Etienne FontanAnd so I would assume margins have got to be getting smaller because, you know, distributors, et cetera, they are not refrigerating or keeping things to the quality that needs to. I think it's only 710 and a few others that are personally delivering, you know, frozen product directly to you. So without having that cold supply chain in order, Thank you for watching.

2:27:06Etienne FontanThey've got that self-sealing. And as stated, their six-star, when it comes to me, it comes frozen and ready to transfer right into my other freezer. So it's getting better. We're not there yet. But at the same time, as more availability and more discussions like this, and as more people choose rosin, we'll see prices come down as, you know, what's the next advancement, right? There's not much really advancement in rosin except for high quality fiber, proper extraction, and proper methodology, and then cold supply chain.

2:27:42Dr Mark ScialdoneScale.

2:27:42Etienne FontanScale. Okay, fair.

2:27:45BubblemanScaling and no bags and no parchment. That's the future of that. For... For the masses, I guess, but there's always going to be a place, in my opinion, for the more intuitive hash maker that's kind of more hands on and just wants to, you know, make that smaller, doesn't necessarily want to make 1000 kilos is happy to make like, you know, 10 or 20 kilos.

2:28:10Etienne FontanSo, Dust, you're in Barcelona, so what do you at the Strain Hunters, what do you see people looking at the retail? You're another retailer, so you can speak from your perspective.

2:28:24SpeakerCompared to the BHO, I mean, between the rosin and BHO.

2:28:27Etienne FontanAh, it's rosin, 100%.

2:28:29SpeakerSpain used to be full of BHO makers. They had quite a lot of really good ones, BCN, Dabmaster. That was one of the main ones in 2014 when we opened. He used to make all those little figurines with the molds and the different textures. And yeah, there was a lot of really competent people. But then I had switched completely to rosin.

2:28:51Bryan Best Friend FarmsI think the only thing that survived that is not solventless is the vapes.

2:28:57SpeakerYou still see the vapes that are from distillates from CO2 or BHO or whatever, but all the rest is rosin. And even that, the rosin is taking over slowly on the vape, I would say. Interesting. Yeah, because people now have better techniques. They select strains that are really good for vape. They're starting to really figure out the thing. Love it. You know how it used to crash and everything before with the live browsing?

2:29:29SpeakerAnd now this is over. You get super stable, even in the heat and the cold. So, yeah, it's nice.

2:29:36BubblemanWell, decarboxylation, it's a magical thing.

2:29:42Nikka TI like to stay away from that term decarboxylation when we're talking about, you know, cartridges. Really, you know, because I think overall decarboxylation has been known as a marketing term for edibles. But other than that, you know, to get a cart that's still really tasty, we're not getting 100% decarboxylation yet. We're converting some of that THCA into THC via this phase change. But Thank you. It's not 100%.

2:30:15Nikka TAnd I think that adding some CBG in there allows us to go even less conversion, which allows us to go less temperature, less duration and still see stabilization. So I don't know. I just, I like to talk about that because I don't think it's a full decarboxylation when we're talking about vapes.

2:30:32BubblemanIt depends on how you're decarbing. If you're like watching bubbles, then the likeliness of you decarbing fully is probably low because you're wanting to be careful. All I know is what I learned, and Dr. Mark, you can confirm or deny this, is that, and I learned this mostly from Corey, the guy who created the rosin reactor, and Andrew, the CEO of the company Sample Automation, that, you know, they

2:31:02BubblemanThe mechanism of decarbing it and monitoring it, they have this little program that monitors it through their computer. It's got these little tiny solenoids, so there's no big burping. There's just these little like, these little shots of burping that release. And you can get very accurate. I will say with my own live hash rosin vape cart, which I think the first one we did was in 2014, the ones that we sold down at Harborside there.

2:31:28BubblemanWith the Blue River and Tony V. They crashed. They ended up crashing for sure. Like that was we didn't understand, you know, stabilizing the resin. As I went through that for a few years, and I don't know what level you found where it does stabilize, but definitely like. Even with a small percentage, it can still do these micro little, like they're not connected. They don't, they don't like turn the whole thing into a mass, but they do look a little cloudy.

2:32:00BubblemanAnd so you can tell me if that was accurate to Dr. Mark or not.

2:32:05Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, I mean, so THC acts as a crystallization inhibitor for THCA, right? So it's got much of the same features of the same molecule, except for that carboxylic acid. You're absolutely right, Nick. I mean, you know what? Well, a couple of things, you know, like when this hemp thing took off too, you know, Thank you for watching.

2:32:41Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you for watching.

2:33:00Dr Mark ScialdoneBut, you know, it's just if you really need a good extract to put inside a pen, you need to just harvest the cannabis terpenes because what we know is that at the higher concentration of like a live resin extraction or a live rosin or whatever, a live extraction, you're going to have so much more terpenes Thank you so much for joining us.

2:33:51Nikka TIt's stream specific, isn't it? 9.6% terpenes. Yeah, definitely cultivar specific, 100%. And even cultivation specific. Oftentimes we won't use specific, you know, cultivations that run a certain nutrient line that produces higher THCA. We won't use that for carts because it is going to convert. It's going to take longer to convert. We're going to have to use more heat, more duration, et cetera. So yeah, I think cultivar allocation is really important.

2:34:19Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, if you think about it, so we all know that different cultivars have different flavors. Those different flavors and the way that our nose senses them is different manifestation of different terpene profiles. And the different terpene profiles have different saturation points for THCA, right? And so, yeah, there are certain terpene profiles that are able to dissolve a whole lot more THCA than others, right? So yeah, familiarizing yourself with the right cultivar.

2:34:48Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd you bring up a great point too, Nick, which is like, it's not just the cultivar, but it's how it's cultivated. You're growing for oil here. And it's a different cultivation practice than if you're growing for bulk flour, isn't it?

2:35:01Nikka TYeah. Or even if you're growing for, you know, bag of peel compared to, you know, I don't know. There's so many variables in it.

2:35:11Collin PalmerYeah, I think flavors... The biggest variable, I think you're right, Nick. It's like once you get to a certain THCA level, it's very hard for that batch to sit in the oven for that long. To really truly convert.

2:35:25Dr Mark ScialdoneBut when you're when you're breeding for biomass, so for just, you know, you know, large plants, large nugs, that doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with breeding for oil or does it? Is it? So the more trichomes, the more biomass, the more THC, right? I mean, is that the way it works?

2:35:45Nikka TNot necessarily because oftentimes you know people are using heavy carbs towards the end of the cultivation process to put on a thicker waxy cuticle which might give you more bag appeal more trichome coverage and appearance outward appearance but the actual oil within that trichome head is going to be less you know so I think that's a big variable is people just carbo loading uh these plants towards the end uh to make them look like there's more trichomes And then you're going to see different structures in the trichomes.

2:36:14Nikka TYou know, even cultivars that are just have trichome density, you know, crazy trichome density might not wash very well due to the fact that it's an oily or greasy consistency. You know, so finding that tactile consistency that is viable is an important factor as well.

2:36:37Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what are some of your favorite strains for oil content? Like if you had to select a garden today, what would that garden be full of? What's the number one strain?

2:36:48Nikka TI mean, right now we're running a ton of bloom seed cultivars. So we're running a ton of the black maple. We're running a bunch of the candy fumes, the rainbow guava. And some of this new TMZ line is exciting me, which is just more Skittles, candy, Terps, but hitting it with some of the lemons and the limes. And, you know, there's a lot of amazing stuff coming out of the Bloom Seed Co. camp as far as viability in washing.

2:37:19Nikka TIs the TMZ from Soul Fire?

2:37:26Nikka TI think, I don't know, I'm seeing it come out of bloom, but I didn't follow the exact lineage, so I apologize. Right on. And there you go, Kaya. Kaya's coffee, still doing work in all markets. I see it.

2:37:41SpeakerYeah, I got a care package. Hey.

2:37:48BubblemanWicked.

2:37:51SpeakerYeah, he's got fire.

2:37:53BubblemanWhat are you puffing over there, Bobby?

2:37:56SpeakerOh, yeah. Some sour. I just ran for a buddy down south in southern Oregon.

2:38:03BubblemanYeah, tell us a little bit about what you've been running lately. Maybe like the last five or six different cultivars you ran and what was special about them. Maybe if you see any melt or not.

2:38:13SpeakerSo I've been running that Sour Irene 18 a lot from Pip. Souvenir Seed, I believe. That one's great. I mean... That's what I want to smoke. So that's really what I'm trying to fill the garden with. And people seem to like it. You know, it produces well, a lot of biomass and it washes well. So it's fantastic melt. So you don't have to press it, you know, if you don't want to, if you don't need to.

2:38:39SpeakerBut that's been probably my number one. And then from Tsunami Seed Co., the waves, I've been running that and it's fantastic. A great plant. It's extremely vigorous. It's just a really good growing plant compared to anything else I've brought in the last year in the garden. I really like that one. Check out his work, Tsunami Seeds. So he does really good stuff.

2:39:05BubblemanAll right, tsunami. Cooler, cooler.

2:39:07SpeakerAnd then the bloom. I run a lot of bloom stuff too. Like Joey's a great dude. He sent me a massive care package not long ago with a bunch of the TMZ stuff. So me and my buddy popped a ton of that and we've been running through it. And I run a ton of that black maple too because it falls under that what I want to smoke and it's great in the garden.

2:39:29SpeakerThey do really produce a lot of strains that are really, really good for people that are producing solventless. So definitely check them out. And most anything that Dulce is wonderful. We've been running that. It's like a cross to a Lemonheads. I think the Lemonheads for Dulce, that one's really nice. I like the Lemonheads a lot. You know, being from the archive crew from way back, like I smirked so much Lemon Peel and Lemonheads and Lemon Cane.

2:39:59SpeakerAnd love it. You know, it's definitely one of my favorites. It just it's that Ohio lemon G comes through so strong through there that it's great. I remember someone mentioned earlier, Justin and Neil, From Refine, from Seattle. It's like they're doing the BHO way back then. I used to run a, I was the buyer for a dispensary in Vancouver for a long time and would stock their product heavy because once they figured it out, they knew what they were doing and they were untouchable in that world, you know?

2:40:28SpeakerSo touching back on that, there was some fantastic BHO back then and those guys helped introduce me to some of those strains that I love now and Solventless Form too. So it was great, you know, getting to meet them and work with them over the years. They did a lot for the community too as well. So that was really cool. And I think they're even making hash over there now and doing rosin too.

2:40:50SpeakerSo even them, they've closed one door and opened another. I'm sure they're still doing the BHO and all that stuff too, but I'm sure they're finding that the rosin is probably a little bit more of a sellable product for them now because that's where people are kind of leaning towards.

2:41:09Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're talking about the cats that extract it? Yeah. Yeah. So I just want to remember the picture of Ryan holding the Dragon Ball.

2:41:21SpeakerYeah, for sure.

2:41:22Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, that picture blew up on the Internet. It was like, oh, he was in a helicopter, wasn't he?

2:41:27Nikka THe was.

2:41:28Dr Mark ScialdoneI was there the day that they took that photo shoot.

2:41:31BubblemanI remember when Mark was flying the helicopter.

2:41:35SpeakerThat's amazing. And Justin's still a really good friend of mine. I still talk to Justin all the time.

2:41:41Dr Mark ScialdoneSo that's a good crew of folks. Yeah. And, you know, the market evolved around them. You know, I mean, it really did. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was just a terrific time. You know, God, it seems like it's just yesterday, but this is like 10 10 years ago.

2:41:57SpeakerYeah, it was a long time ago. I ended up working with a rep farm in Washington named Scored Marijuana. And we had them process some stuff too, you know what I mean? So it was cool to see that kind of go full circle after I quit being a purchasing manager for a spot and then started working there to have Justin and Ryan and them process that material was kind of cool, you know?

2:42:20SpeakerNeil, Neil was like my first plug back in college in like 96. He was the first dude to hook me up with zips. That's so epic. Neil's a great guy. And Ryan actually gave me like my first real dab. For sure. I would meet him at the mall and fill his truck up with material to run way, way back. So that's awesome, guys. Yeah, I know they used to go to those mothership auctions and stuff super heavy and just like provide the dad bar for everyone.

2:42:52SpeakerSo that was cool. They've definitely been around and done serious work and I have a lot of respect for those guys.

2:43:00Dr Mark ScialdoneMarcus, you would have loved this. We were there with Tony V and Pinsky back in the day. And these guys were making dab tacos. So they took one piece of hash and made like the taco shell. Then they put some other hash in the middle. That was the taco. Then they drizzled some sauce over it.

2:43:18Nikka TI dab a taco or two.

2:43:20Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Crazy shit, man. Crazy shit.

2:43:25BubblemanWell, it won't hold a candle. To the curator boiling down one of his giant creations in a single dab. We'll have to pull out the fatty like something like this. You know, like a really big one.

2:43:46SpeakerThe real great. Big fatty. I'll bring it with me. You know what we got to do is make some solventless diamonds art and then melt those. That would be fire.

2:43:58BubblemanYeah, it would be definitely a different melting point. They would melt slower.

2:44:03Dr Mark ScialdoneBe different making point as well. So Caitlin, talk to me about that. I'm really curious about that. How do you make solventless diamonds?

2:44:11SpeakerOne of my favorite topics. So thank you for asking. I'm one of the only makers in Canada putting solventless diamonds out on the market in the rec market here. And I'm super proud of that. So for me, I was watching all of these Cool things happen online, like watching Rackhams and watching all these cool folks. And I just decided I had some extra material to play with.

2:44:31SpeakerI found myself a recipe and was like, I can make diamonds, follow the instructions, made some cool diamonds. And then I've made them so many times now that I've really started to understand what's going on. And so the neat thing about the saltless diamonds process is that it is a mechanical fraction technique. But what I've found is that I personally press that rosin under a few different temperature sets.

2:44:52SpeakerAnd what we get on those temperature sets is different terpenes melting at different temperature ranges. I haven't quite taken it as far as sending those fractions out for testing to figure out exactly which terpenes are melting at which temperature, but they are all clearly very different. They taste different. They smell different. The texture is different. And for me, I go through a couple of rounds of those pressing and collect all those fractions separately.

2:45:15SpeakerAnd that's what provides you with the terp sauce. And then after that, you're left with an amazing THCA powder, like a white, dusty, crumbly powder. And when you melt that down, when you do that at the right temperature, you get to turn that into like a nice gooey powder, which, sorry, a nice gooey like puddle. And then you manipulate that puddle into the diamonds themselves. So for me, I like the snake method.

2:45:38SpeakerSo I've got my big puddle, I roll it and I collect it and I pull it into these big, long, beautiful pieces. And then I cut and break those pieces Into tiny, tiny little diamonds. You then have a really cool spot because now I have three products. Now I have a terp sauce. Now I have a saltless diamond. And when I combine them, I have a diamonds and sauce.

2:45:59SpeakerI went so far as testing them all separately. The sauce is like a 50% THC. And I came back with an 18% terp ratio. The diamonds by themselves tested at a 91% THC and 0.02 terp. So no terps.

2:46:15SpeakerBut then when you combine them back together, you get about a 70% potency, 8% or 9% turf ratio. So it's kind of an interesting product. You can really play with how potent you want it to be, how flavorful you want it to be, how, I mean, it's such an experimental thing to do.

2:46:31Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat temperature and pressure are you pressing at, can you say?

2:46:35SpeakerCan you say that again?

2:46:37Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat temperature and pressure are you using?

2:46:40SpeakerI'm using various temperatures between 130 and 220, but I do a couple different presses within that range. And then I use the full pressure on my press. I have the Helix. I always get the name wrong. I have the largest pure pressure press that you can purchase, and I take it to full pressure on every press.

2:47:01BubblemanLong's Peak?

2:47:03SpeakerYeah, that's the one. Thank you. I always get the names wrong.

2:47:07BubblemanI had that unit for quite a while. It was quite fun.

2:47:10SpeakerI quite like it. It's very precise. You can really dial it in the way you need. You know, I started on a manual press. So I started with, especially in this process, like turning the wheel, feeling when there was a little bit more room, turning it a little bit more, really dialing in the temperatures and the pressures that I needed to make this happen. And then I was able to take that and turn it into a recipe that I can put into that press that's automated so that I know exactly what I want to happen, when I want it to happen, where I want it to happen, but I still have the control to say, this is my baseline, but I'm going to change it up and down every single round.

2:47:41SpeakerI never run the recipe. I run the recipe and I modify it for every round that I do based on the cultivar and how the turps are pouring out, how the process is running. It's really quite It's quite a process. It's taken me a long time to really dial it in. The first time that I tried it, we had like a 32% loss. I love numbers. I take data on everything.

2:48:01SpeakerSo yeah, 32% loss was not a commercializable product. And I was like, I'm going to make this happen. And I practiced it and I changed it and I modified it down to an 8% loss, which is actually a commercializable product. And then when I moved that process from my own personal lab To the lab, like the commercial lab that I work in now, because I am a rec producer, I maintained that loss at an eight to 10% range.

2:48:23SpeakerSo scaling up really didn't affect the process. It didn't affect the appearance. It all stayed the same with just a beautiful maintaining of the product. Thank you so much for sharing. I love the process.

2:48:39Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, thank you so much for sharing. I think there's tons of questions in the chat. But yeah, so length and is this on fresh frozen material?

2:48:48SpeakerI personally do use fresh frozen, but I've seen lots of people doing it with dried material. It will come out different, obviously. So my preference is always fresh frozen. I love high quality everything.

2:48:58Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. Would you get any sauce fraction on dry material?

2:49:02SpeakerOh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just not nearly as much, right? The turkeys are significantly more. Yeah. But yeah, you would.

2:49:10BubblemanMan, the first time Rackham's walked me through his process, he was like, okay, so this takes about eight hours. And I was just like... What? I was like eight hours. Dude, this is a very long process. This was like way, way back when. And the first person who had ever told me their process that did this process was Soil Grown. Phil, who came out and sort of showed the...

2:49:36BubblemanThe rosin process in the first place. He was the first one to sort of explain to me that he was, you know, kind of, you know, getting, you know, there's, I guess the process is pressing ever so lightly to press out that terp fraction, right? From your pressed rosin. So you gotta, you gotta go super low pressure, low temperature. It can be a super slow process, obviously, as slow as you want to take it.

2:50:00BubblemanAnd then the more you do it, you realize, oh, I can do this much quicker without really drastically affecting it. But of course, there will become a spot where, you know, you can start affecting it, the flavor profile or what. I guess you want your turps to definitely not have an off flavor. You want them to taste beautiful and amazing. And I've tasted the product that you do, Caitlin, and it was quite lovely.

2:50:23SpeakerThank you. Yeah, it's a fine line between keeping it preserved the way you need it and like fully decarbing the product. And you really don't want to go all the way to decarbing the product because that's not what we're aiming for here, right? The other thing that I think people forget is that this is not an extraction process the way that we're used to. This is a mechanical separation process.

2:50:42SpeakerSo you're talking about light pressure. And what I'm really doing is applying that pressure and temperature to move The terpenes, right? I'm not looking to extract them from the THC. I'm looking to move them away from the THC. The pressure and the filter bag holds that THC in place, but the heat and pressure move the terpenes away from the THC. So it's just a separation more than it is an extraction the way we think about with BHO or the way we think about ice water washing.

2:51:11SpeakerCan I show a picture real quick?

2:51:12BubblemanNo, please do.

2:51:15BubblemanLet's just make sure everyone can share.

2:51:18Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you again, Caitlin, for sharing. This is awesome. Thank you so much.

2:51:22SpeakerOh, it's my pleasure. Okay, let's see this one. Can you see all that goodness?

2:51:31BubblemanI like the top right a lot.

2:51:34SpeakerThis guy. Come on, open. Yeah.

2:51:38Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, yeah. So, Caitlin, what are those analyzed for, like those stones right there?

2:51:44SpeakerWhat do you mean, sorry?

2:51:45Dr Mark ScialdoneLike what THC?

2:51:48SpeakerOh, these tested at a 91% THC. A. Yeah, total THC, I'm sorry. I'm not sure what the conversion was between THC and THCA.

2:51:58Dr Mark ScialdoneSo there's some THC in there?

2:52:00SpeakerThere is, yes.

2:52:02Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. But if it's crystalline, it's mostly THCA, isn't that correct?

2:52:08SpeakerWell, you know, I'm not... It's a good question. Mostly. Mostly, yeah.

2:52:13Nikka TIt's going to depend on the lab too, you know, like we kind of prefaced. I remember when we first started making this mechanical separation, we hit 108% THCA because the lab sample or the lab standard was off. So ours was higher than their standard and, you know, 108%. I'm glad to hear that. I'm glad to see you win.

2:52:37Speaker91% potency, but 101% cannabinoids, which made no sense to me. 101%?

2:52:42Nikka TYeah, it's because the standard's off.

2:52:45Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, it doesn't quite work, right? Well, it's probably not the standard that's off, Nick. It's probably their sample prep. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:53:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, and a lot of those analytical standards, first of all, there have to be ISO certified at a different level of ISO than 17025. I think it's like 17343 or something like that. But a lot of those aren't actually extracted from the cannabis plant. Some of those are made synthetically. And ultra purified. And then what they do is they'll sell those to the cannabis testing lab, who will do a tenfold serial delusion on those, shoot those into the HPLC, and they watch the peak height change with concentration.

2:53:57Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd from that, they get a calibration curve. So when they shoot your sample and see like 101, what that says is that they're higher on the calibration curve than they should be. That's probably due to sample prep and not due to the machine at all. The machine is fine. They're fucking up their sample prep somewhere. But if it's that high, then it's, yeah, greater than 99, you're good.

2:54:24SpeakerI just found the old test from some of those crystals that we were doing in Barcelona 10 years ago. And the THC was 89% and THC was only 0.8%.

2:54:39Dr Mark ScialdoneThat sounds like a proper measurement. Makes sense.

2:54:43SpeakerSo not so much THC.

2:54:46Collin PalmerI'm looking at a COA mark that says 99.8%. And then I remember calling the lab that day. I'm like, so guys, like,

2:55:14Collin PalmerI thought we're on the scale of 1 to 100, or 0 to 100.

2:55:20Dr Mark ScialdoneWe should just give you a 99.99% score at that point.

2:55:23Collin PalmerYeah, you just said, well, it's basic math. And I was like, yeah, no, you can't.

2:55:30Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, but like what Caitlin was saying about using low pressure to fractionate the terpenes from the THCA, that's truly fascinating because again, these things aren't, they're not solids, they're liquids, right? And they're the most volatile fractions. So yeah, if you could push out the more volatile ones and let, you know, the cannabinoids follow, that makes a lot of sense. So I'm really excited that you're doing that, Caitlin, because I think you're going to inspire people In solventless to go after diamonds now.

2:56:00SpeakerSo thank you. I hope so. It's a cool way to to bring solvent consumers over because there's these big heads that just want to smoke these solvent diamonds because they're so strong and they're so potent and some of us can't stand up to that. Well, here, try this 90 percent THC item. That's exactly what you're used to, but is in a cleaner format. And see, tell me that some of the other neat thing that people don't know because not a lot of people have the exposure to Solemnless Diamonds and then Solemnless Sauce is the experience between the two is so wildly different because of the THCA is so heavy in one and the terpenes are so heavy in the other.

2:56:37SpeakerLike the diamonds, you smoke those diamonds and it is all in your eyeballs and it is in your face and you're up and you're ready and you want to go and you want to do all the things and you want to get on the mountain bike and go. You take the terp sauce and it's like a 50% THC and 18% terps and you're like, yeah, buddy, let's chill out.

2:56:53SpeakerIt is fantastic. It will level people out when they're too stoned. They are wildly, wildly different products. And then even if you were to go through those turf fractions and try the turf fractions on their own without mixing them, you're going to get four different sets of experience from those turf fractions. Two reasons. One, because all of them contain different turf. And also because they all contain different amounts of THC and THC-8.

2:57:18SpeakerThe fourth fraction, for example, happens at the highest temperature. And I think that that fraction Thank you so much for joining us.

2:57:52SpeakerEverything in this is so different. It's so producer dependent. It's so cultivar dependent. It's a really fascinating product to me. I'm very excited for more people to get on board. The more formats we have in our category, I think the more people will get in.

2:58:06BubblemanWell, someone mentioned a company called Beurre Blanc in Quebec, and apparently they're selling diamonds and sauce in Canada now. I've never seen it. Apparently they're...

2:58:16SpeakerI've seen them.

2:58:17BubblemanOkay.

2:58:18SpeakerYeah, I'll leave it there. Okay. They're in Ontario. They are... Okay. Really? Yeah. Final bell. Final bell.

2:58:32Collin PalmerOkay. So it was maybe Lindsay was part of it for a minute? Yeah.

2:58:38SpeakerHow long is the THC malleable when you're like pulling it like canes to make your rods? How long do we have to play with it? Barely any time at all. So you really have to, I've really figured out my time and temperature and then the surface that I work on has to be not too hot and not too cold. So there's kind of a delicate balance between taking the pan from the oven, playing with it in the pan, taking the paper off the pan, manipulating it while it's cooling, putting it back onto the pan because it's a warm space, putting that pan back into the oven to get sort of the temperature that you need again to take it back out to make it work.

2:59:13SpeakerI feel like it's probably a lot of what you're doing between you're in and out of the freezer and you're back and forth, It's, it's that. Sometimes you've got like this giant big platter of the THC and liquid. You can get about halfway through manipulating it and it's rock hard. And so you're either just going to smash it or you have to rewarm it again and again.

2:59:30SpeakerIt's a delicate balance. You can, you can press it into something. If you have a mold, like you have enough window of time to get something out of it. You know, I've seen people do that and I have not quite figured out how they are doing that. So maybe there's just a piece that I am missing, but to me, In the way that I'm doing it, I don't know that I would have time to pour it into a mold.

2:59:50SpeakerI think I'm missing something there, but I'll figure it out. You should press with your, you have to press with your hot mold. Your mold should be hit, you should be hitting with your rosin press. So you melt it into it.

3:00:02Jenn DoeAnother thing would be you can take up the crushed up THCA and you introduce it into the mold. So fill the molds and then melt it in the actual mold.

3:00:12SpeakerThat's what I was thinking would be the move. Yeah. So THCA...

3:00:16Jenn DoeYeah, THCA, I've noticed, and I know I had brought this up many, many years ago, but it acts along the same lines as sugar. So if you, Caitlin, if you want to get a little, and also Mark, to learn how to manipulate it some, if you start looking into sugar, Thank you for joining us.

3:00:57Jenn DoeA heat lamp up top so that they're able to work within that heated situation to manipulate the sugar like that. But sugar that is cooked to about a hard crack stage, that acts the same as basically THCA when you're melting it down and whatnot. But yeah, for the molds, you're going to want to just pack in that unmelted in there and then melt that inside the molds.

3:01:24SpeakerThat was something I was thinking about trying. The other thing that I always forget that I do differently. So I'm melting of the heads was a year and a half ago. I forget what melting of the heads two years ago. Maybe I spoke about diamonds and sauce there and people came and asked me a lot of questions after the fact. And I learned I'm actually doing my THC wildly different than a lot of people because I'm melting it on a flat surface in an oven.

3:01:47SpeakerAnd a lot of these are coming back to me saying they're melting their THC on their press plates in a jar. And that was not something That had quite occurred to me. So, you know, there's just, there's a lot of ways to get to this end product and they all sort of result in similar, but different, different things. And I find that also to be very fascinating that we can take so many pathways to get to this final item and still enjoy the same, the same final product with the outcome.

3:02:14Collin PalmerYeah, I think the other thing I would say is that we got big, large keypads and we have a station where you can put a pan on top of it and we use pans like you do to at least when we start to rod things out to further refine it. That helps us keep that warmth that Jen was talking about to have the ability to keep pulling when the ambient air is cooling it down.

3:02:41Jenn DoeI think adding that heat light to the top, you can even just get one like farm store heat lights to keep your chickens warm at night. Because what's happening is you'll have the heat Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:03:20SpeakerPull it out, manipulate it, a quickie, pull it out, manipulate it. I'd be, I would wonder if keeping it under heat for too long without manipulation would challenge the manipulation or actually change the color. I'd be worried about, yeah, essential clarity, if it would become like, like a more amber color, less opaque or more opaque or essentially like not look at all like the product that you have just from pulling cane.

3:03:43SpeakerI would want the final product to be more similar to that. Yeah, I agree. I'd like to be clear though. I've left HCA powder in the oven too long by accident because it's like the tiny little bit that I'm finishing up with and I'm finishing up this other thing. I'm like, oh shoot, go back to the oven. And it's dark, it's red, it's purple, which is a cool novelty.

3:04:00SpeakerBut when I'm going for like that golden diamonds, this that you see here behind me, I don't want red diamonds mixed into it, right?

3:04:07Jenn DoeWell, and at that point, it's the matter of decarboxylation, right? Because we, so you need to just find that appropriate temperature because it's not about allowing, it's going to be a consistent temperature is the problem without having that temperature in a situation where it's going to raise, you know, and yeah, if you're, if you are heating THCA too long, we're decarbing it, you know, so, but like same with like candy, like do a deep dive into Thank you for joining us.

3:04:58SpeakerI'll be so delicate when I melt it down. I just need raw, I think raw THCA diamonds that I would then turn into a dust, fill basically any form, and then really gently bring it up to temperature to the point where it all became viscous, and then slowly, obviously, then return that to cold. And then have that, if I had like silicone, then introduce that to cold so that as I pull it away, the oil itself, like, you know, the oil, you know, basically stiffens up and removes itself from the mold.

3:05:36SpeakerFun, delicate dance, that's for sure.

3:05:39Collin PalmerAbsolutely. There's nothing wrong with the white THCA that a lot of the listeners out there that are going to end up first with. You know, there's a lot to be said for that first pass there. That holds a lot of... I think a lot of like volatile organic compounds that are lost when we melt it down that are not retained through that process. So I think that's another interesting aspect of it too, because it does almost present itself as two different products from the same category.

3:06:09SpeakerHave you tried dabbing that white powder before?

3:06:13Collin PalmerOh, yeah, that was my first. So in Massachusetts, 2018, we first launched there. That was that was like one of the first products that sold out. Like I told everyone, yeah, we can do this thing. I'll teach you. No, I don't know if it'll sell. And I ended up making like only a few hundred or a few maybe a thousand units of it and it was like the first thing that sold out and I was like so surprised.

3:06:35Collin PalmerThat's impressive. You know I was just like in my head I'm like everyone just wants you know wants an ultra tasty product but just where we launched I guess that's really truly what they wanted which is a very powerful product.

3:06:48SpeakerJust something to get you really high.

3:06:50Collin PalmerYeah, which was a surprise, you know, I was learning for me because, you know, I just want things to taste amazing. I don't really need a high-tech product. That's not what I'm looking for.

3:07:02SpeakerThere's a producer here in British Columbia that launched just salt-less diamonds on the rec market, and I think it was kind of mids received, like fully turned into diamonds, but people, I think, didn't understand what the product was. They were really stoked on it. It was kind of a hot item at first, but then there was all these comments like, There's no flavor. The effect is funny.

3:07:20SpeakerThere's no smell on it. And like, yeah, it's a solventless diamond. That's what it is. But the consumer was not ready for that. And so it wasn't it didn't take off the way it could have had the education piece been there for people to understand what they were smoking. So I know here in Canada, at least we're still missing that consumer knowledge for them to understand what these varieties of products are.

3:07:40SpeakerI think if I turned around in Canada and said, here's a white powder, that's THCA. Not sure. I'm not sure how that would go just yet.

3:07:48BubblemanYeah, I think a politician in a very short period of time would be saying that they found fentanyl in the THCA. Yeah, yeah, definitely did.

3:07:58Collin PalmerThat turf fraction could go into it. You know, we used to do put that turf fraction into like a cart, you know, how did that? Because it was like low THC, but super high turf fraction, you know, just tastes incredible.

3:08:12SpeakerDid you have to decarp it?

3:08:14Collin PalmerVery slightly, you know, a really light one. Very barely, I think we barely, it was very low temperatures, I think 140 for like an hour.

3:08:25SpeakerOh, that's easy. I get a lot of questions about that turp sauce in bait carts. That's going to be my next move.

3:08:30Collin PalmerShould do it.

3:08:31SpeakerI would do it. High turps, low THC, there's a market for that. People just don't quite know yet. It's great. I mean, I love it.

3:08:39Jenn DoeCaitlin, did you say that your chirp sauce tested at about 50% THC?

3:08:44SpeakerYes.

3:08:45Jenn DoeSo is that THC, not THCA, correct? Because that's coming up again.

3:08:49SpeakerTotal THC is the number we often use here. I could go find the COA and give you the THC, THCA breakdown, but here we usually look at total THC. The labs here do the conversion of what the THCA will convert to in consumption. And so a total THCA number that isn't assumed when you consume it, this is what it will be. Are the COAs delivered differently in the States?

3:09:12Jenn DoeYeah, because we can separate it out by THCA versus THC. That's how we determine our decarboxylation rates. Yeah, yeah. We get that. I'm going to assume that if that was the TURP fraction that tested at the 50%, that's going to be viscous. So that most likely is the majority THC, not THCA.

3:09:32Etienne FontanYeah. Yep.

3:09:35Jenn DoeSo technically, you could just use that in a cart because it's already 50%.

3:09:38SpeakerThat's what I thought, right? No need to add any extra to it at that point. And it's so runny, you turn the jar and it immediately spills sideways. So I think it'd be perfect texture for the carts. I've just yet to take the action of Thank you for watching.

3:10:12Nikka TYou have to play with the porosity. There's a lot of variables when you move into vapes depending on the viscosity of your oil.

3:10:21SpeakerYeah. And the fluidity. Medium and low viscosity. So we'll play with it in each of them and see, I guess, which one makes the most sense for that particular product. It might not be the same cart we want to be using for our rosin.

3:10:34Collin PalmerNo, it's definitely not. It's a different, totally different resistance. I mean, the whole thing is completely different. You know, that's to Nick's point. I think that's what we found was that we had to use a very particular device for it and a very particular resistance setting. It's very, you know, these are novelty products, man.

3:10:54SpeakerYeah, totally, totally. But at least here in Canada, it was well received. When we dropped our first Diamonds and Sauce drop for the province here, Oh gosh, it was a while ago now. We had 100 cases, 600 units, sold out in 10 minutes at retail level. So we were pretty stoked. Yeah. Fuck yeah. Right? Congrats. Thank you. It was a big deal. What was the price? What was the price?

3:11:20SpeakerI couldn't tell you. I'm going to lie to you if I give you a number right now. I don't want to get it wrong. It was $600, 600 a gram. Right?

3:11:29SpeakerI sell it to the province at one price. The province sells it to the store at a next price. The store sells it to the consumer at a next price. There's a lot of changes in that process.

3:11:38BubblemanDude, I know. And you're all stoked. It's like, yeah, I sold that shit for a great price, 16 bucks a gram. And then you go to the store and it's like $89.99. You're like, what the fuck?

3:11:46Nikka TThe worst. People are like, dude, what the fuck? Why is your shit so expensive?

3:11:50BubblemanI'm like, I don't know, actually. Like, what the fuck?

3:11:53Dr Mark ScialdoneBecause you had to feed two suits between you and me.

3:11:56Nikka TOh my God, the biggest, most fattest, plumpest suits, dude. I remember when Vail was like jacking up our prices, just, you know, every shop in Vail was competing and they were, you know, everything was so much higher in the Vail Mountains than compared to the Denver Front Range.

3:12:14Jenn DoeMakes sense though, it's all the tourists up there that have the money to be spending it.

3:12:18Dr Mark ScialdoneBeverly Hills of Colorado, yeah.

3:12:20Jenn DoeYeah, and the convenience of being able to get it there as opposed to having to get it.

3:12:24Nikka TWe give an MSRP, but yeah, they did not heed to our MSRP.

3:12:30Jenn DoeThey're like, this is bail, sir. MSRP times two.

3:12:36BubblemanWe had a few shops that really did take care of the customer, you know, and those are the ones that move through product faster.

3:12:49Dr Mark ScialdoneThe tourists were in Summit County. Those are the billionaires. Those are the one percenters. I'm telling you, some of those people have incredible amounts of money. You know, so fleece. Yeah, we did well.

3:13:01Bubbleman0.01%. We are the fucking 1% if you use the global population. Everyone on this panel is in the 1%. So careful how you use that term. It's like $30,000 a year. If you're above $30,000 a year, you're in the 1%. If you use the global population, not just like the population of your country. It's insane.

3:13:27SpeakerThanks.

3:13:30BubblemanSame.

3:13:31Dr Mark ScialdoneDoes that include the 51st state?

3:13:35BubblemanYes, that includes us. Absolutely.

3:13:39SpeakerY'all ready for some gun rights?

3:13:42BubblemanWe're here for everything and anything, dude. I don't give up. I'm just like, as long as I'm, listen, as long as I can continue to keep 10 kilos of hash at my house, I'm not going to complain or make waves, but don't. Don't fuck around with that possession document. Yeah, the possession document. Dude, that's shit on my hash stash. 4,600 grams, baby, 4,600. Almost five kilos.

3:14:16SpeakerThis is your second amendment, no?

3:14:20BubblemanIt's an important one. I thank Johnny B. I thank Johnny B because Johnny B took me to get that here in Canada. That was one of the last MMARs. The people in my group that got that license in the six months that I got that license in like 2012 or 2014, whatever it was,

3:14:38BubblemanWe got grandfathered in. Our MMAR licenses, because it had the right expiration date, because we ended up in court fighting the government and it became this huge thing that John Conroy and Kirk Dussaud actually won this court case. Our MMAR licenses, as long as you don't move, because if I move and the address changes, the license is gone and I have to go apply for the new MMPR or whatever it's called.

3:15:06BubblemanSo yeah, I'm happy to have this old school. I can have 100 plants. I can have almost 5 kgs. And it's mellow and wonderful. And I think everyone should have that. That going. They all deserve it.

3:15:22SpeakerFor a short time, I had two of those licenses at my house and I was allowed to have 200 plants.

3:15:27BubblemanI've seen even one license with that amount. And I was like, wow. I'm like, the whole time I've had this, I don't think I've ever grown. The closest I came would have been like growing clones to produce some plants for outside for all my time.

3:15:42Nikka TBut now under the hemp farm bill, well, in the United States anyways, under the hemp farm bill, clones... Don't count as anything. So there's now this other fight internally or, you know, protection for us, if you will.

3:15:57BubblemanThat farm bill is unbelievable. It almost seems like whoever wrote that like secretly was looking out for the cannabis community, but while also just thinking, oh, wow, this will really this will destroy them more than anything.

3:16:12BubblemanJust the warring, you know, the THCA versus the other folks. I don't know. I don't know why we always have to divide everything, but I guess it is what it is.

3:16:24SpeakerI got raided once and I had a whole bunch of, I was under my numbers, but if you added the clones, I would have been in big trouble. But the clones weren't considered plants, so they had to let me off.

3:16:35BubblemanThe clones. Yeah, test that shit.

3:16:37Nikka TAin't no THC in those clones.

3:16:39BubblemanThose plants aren't real plants until the day you harvest them. Those are the same people that make California abortion laws, actually.

3:16:48SpeakerIn Washington, if it didn't have roots, it wasn't considered a plant. They had written that in the state law.

3:16:55Jenn DoeWasn't it under two nodes as well? They had it broken down by nodes at some point?

3:17:03Nikka TNow all that's thrown out the window with the hemp farm bill overriding, basically. It's a trip. Crazy.

3:17:10BubblemanYeah, it's crazy. Even when I first heard it, I was like, that can't be right. Like they could not have allowed. It can't be that simple that they made this mistake with THCA and THC. And then I thought, wait a minute. Yes, it is. What did the guys say? Do not attribute to malice, which can be ignorance.

3:17:32SpeakerIn Washington State, they knew that loophole existed during medical days and they had like a midnight session and they closed that loop and they basically said THCA and THC are the same. But because federal law trumps all that with this hemp thing, I think even in Washington, it's olly olly oxen free. Yeah. Olly olly oxen free. That's wild.

3:18:01Etienne FontanThat's official legalese.

3:18:03BubblemanActually, ATN, if you could use that when you're speaking to the United Nations or the DEA or whoever else you're speaking to, you can just be like, and I'd like to quote my good friend, Kaya, it's Ollyoxin free. Olly, Olly, sorry. Double up on the Ollies. That's funny, dude. Thank you. That's medicinal right there. Dabs and laughter. I mean, that is, you could, it reminds me of Indra back in the day when he was hurting and he'd say, it's hard to feel bad when you feel good.

3:18:37BubblemanIt's like true story. Ain't nothing changed but the gate code. All right.

3:18:45SpeakerLet's see if you can actually see this now.

3:18:48BubblemanYeah, that looks very lovely.

3:18:51SpeakerBeautiful.

3:18:52BubblemanI mean, I'm not, oh, wait, I might have even seen the blue you spoke of.

3:18:56SpeakerThere it is. Oh, the blue, the Myron blue. It's a gorgeous thing. There it is. I see it.

3:19:04SpeakerI love that. If you catch it in the, if you catch just a line of it in a photo, it's so pretty. Totally. What do you guys think about photographing in white jars? We made the decision for myself to go with white jars on the market. What are your thoughts on photographing in a white jar? They're cool.

3:19:21Collin PalmerI think white jars are great. I think, you know, I know Brad over at 710 Labs chose white jars for a minute and now he's back to the pot vac jars, which when we were on the topic of jars, I wanted to mention them. Pop Vac is really good. I really like what they're doing. But yeah, I think white jars, you know, they're a little harder to shoot just because they have, you know, need more of what's called flagging, which is just over top, you know, literally white duvety flags to kind of block light so it doesn't cast hard shadows.

3:19:55Collin PalmerBut, you know, it's, you know, they're great. Do you like, do you like having them in your, you know, your lineup or is it, was there a choice behind it?

3:20:04SpeakerWe flip-flopped between the black jar and the white jar, but like I do salt and this time as a sauce, right? And as soon as I put the sauce into the black jar, gone, you couldn't see anything. So the obvious choice was the white jar. This has some sauce left in it. I, of course I smoked all the diamonds. But you can still actually see that there's sauce in the jar.

3:20:24SpeakerIf that was black, this would look empty and you'd have no idea, right? For your application, like a million percent white because, yeah, to be able to actually show the color of the sauce and be able to see what's going on because shooting, even shooting BHO in black Myron jars, It's impossible sometimes even like a like a pretty nice like bright yellow color when it's against that the the actual Myron it's like you know all and it's semi-opaque or whatever transparent it just doesn't show at all it becomes like black grease yeah that's how I looked at it too so we went white I haven't seen a lot of other people use white though so I was curious just your guys's thoughts I suppose we're we're about to use white in New York we have a white and black line

3:21:08Collin PalmerThat we're about to drop. So, you know. I like the clear too for water hash. I think Marcus is right.

3:21:15BubblemanI agree. I'm having special colors made for every micron that attributes to my bag. So I'm going to be doing yellow jars and red jars. And I'm just joking. I just thought it was funny.

3:21:29Nikka TThat would be cool. You could. That's a cool idea.

3:21:31Collin PalmerYou should do it.

3:21:32BubblemanIt's a skew nightmare. We'll do it. It's a skew nightmare. It's not happening in Canada. I'll tell you that much. Holy shit.

3:21:39SpeakerNo, it isn't. The regulations we have are so tight. This package is this big because I'm not allowed to sell a jar by itself. All that yellow information is required information by Health Canada. All of this printed information is required information by Health Canada. And as you can imagine, I can't put that on a jar. This giant THC logo required by Health Canada doesn't fit on the jar.

3:22:02BubblemanYou know what we did? We created a flag and we got away with it. But it was super stupid looking. We basically just wanted people to buy the jar, rip the flag off, and then they just had a jar. But it was literally just this big flag that opened up and was like this long and double sided on both sides. It had all that information. That's how stubborn my group was to wanting to sell just a jar.

3:22:26BubblemanWe came up with that idea back and forth like a hundred fucking times.

3:22:29Nikka TWe had an accordion version at one point. That's what it was. It was like taped on with a clear sticker or something and you'd take it off and it would accordion out.

3:22:37SpeakerIt was so ridiculous. Yeah, so we went with this guy because then what I can do is this is attached. And so in Canada, if you are attached, you don't require a THC logo on your jar. If you're not attached, you have to put a THC logo. So I stuck my jar in my base and then my consumer just has a jar. They don't have to carry around this big annoying thing because we have to keep all the regulations.

3:22:59BubblemanIt's a lot of waste. Dude, it's so much waste.

3:23:03Etienne FontanThe Canadian, well, I'm sure the American one just as much. But it's...

3:23:08BubblemanThen again, if the Canadian cannabis is such a waste, I'm sure that almost everything we're doing is recently they've now, well, they've done this a few times in Canada, but they basically, these guys were like, I don't think they're recycling the recyclables. And he's like, I'll tell you what we're going to do. We're going to go buy like a giant, like Tonnage of recyclables. Put a GPS tracking unit on it.

3:23:29BubblemanTake it to one of the three places that deal with recycling in BC here. And then we'll see where it ends up. And it was like, it ended up in the Philippines so fast. It was like unbelievable. Like they just literally shipped it to the Philippines because they'll burn it. They can get away with burning it. And I was just like, oh my God, this is the most fucked up crazy thing ever.

3:23:50BubblemanLike it was something like 5% of Canadian recyclables get recycled. It was a really like insane, like look into it where you live. It's disconcerting as most things are because humans just tend to want to be shitty. If I guess it's easier or something, I don't know. It's harder to be good, but try to be good. Because being shitty is, well, it's shitty. Thank you for joining us.

3:24:33BubblemanSometimes that's how it goes here on Hash Church. People are like, if we curate a show, how will the conversation go? I'm like, it'll be full chaos. There'll be no controlling it and anyone can say anything.

3:24:42Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know if we've talked about this, but again, where all those fires were down in LA and all those homes burned up, Thank you so much for joining us.

3:25:08Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I mean, you got to wonder at some point, you know, when air quality becomes compromised, like it did during that fire. And even in the aftermath of the fire, I mean, all that stuff is still there in the environment. And I don't even think that they're testing for it anymore because they really don't even know what to test. There's such, you know, when you have that level of destruction, so much stuff is burned, but you'll know that, you know, when you burn certain plastics, it does leave a soot behind and that soot certainly can be, you know, an environmental toxin that could probably be In cannabis and, you know, cannabis products, it sucks.

3:25:49BubblemanThat's where we look to the fungus, my friend, because you just know without even knowing that there's a fungus that'll just eat that shit up and fart out the smells of strawberries.

3:26:01BubblemanLong live the funga.

3:26:04Dr Mark ScialdoneI didn't expect that coming. Okay.

3:26:06BubblemanLong live the fungal farts. Long, long, long live it, Etienne. Long live it.

3:26:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, we got to find the fungus to eat those forever molecules is what we got to do.

3:26:17BubblemanI guarantee you they will be here. If they're not already here, they're probably trapped in cosmic radiation pressure traveling through space right now trying to get to Earth as we speak.

3:26:28SpeakerMushrooms will definitely eat it eventually.

3:26:31BubblemanExactly. Yeah, there's no avoiding it. We're all getting eaten by... And I'm here for it. I am here for it. I wasn't when I first found my first cordyceps insects in behind my house just walking through the forest. I found these little like beetles and they had like mushrooms growing out of their heads. And it was kind of before I knew about cordyceps. But I still thought, ooh, what a nightmare.

3:27:01BubblemanLike, man, holy shit, imagine mushrooms getting into you and just growing out of your body. I am very glad that we don't have that problem. I mean, there's candida and there's definitely arguments that could be made, but something freaky about having a big old mushroom just bloom out of the corner of your nose or your eye, that would be, that would be no bueno.

3:27:23SpeakerThere's still tomorrow.

3:27:25BubblemanYes, there's still tomorrow. We could get there.

3:27:26Dr Mark ScialdoneScience fiction. Well, and probably there's someone on this panel that has athlete's foot. That's, you know, that's a fun little infection.

3:27:35BubblemanAnyone want to cop on the panel here to... I have athlete's foot. So what's puffing over by you, Brian? You haven't said much today.

3:27:46Bryan Best Friend FarmsOh, just enjoying the conversation. Um... I've whipped up a little bit of some fresh, freshly cured melt actually right here. So this is some 120 micron old gas mask here that's just cured. So I scraped up this little portion.

3:28:09BubblemanThat's melt?

3:28:10Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah. And then this is what it looks like kind of beat up right here. I just did this a few minutes ago, like an hour ago actually.

3:28:22Bryan Best Friend FarmsNice.

3:28:22BubblemanWhat's the texture of that if you were to go to cut into it or squeeze it with your finger? Frenchie would squeeze that with his finger all day long. God bless you, Frenchie.

3:28:34SpeakerBack up a little bit.

3:28:36Bryan Best Friend FarmsOops. I dropped some there. It stiffened up after. It still has to be beat up a little bit more. But if you can see after digging into it a little bit and I can press it. Let me see.

3:28:51Bryan Best Friend FarmsThat might help to explain it too, like matted into it. Oh, yeah.

3:28:55SpeakerWow.

3:28:56Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, it's just cured by a few days. Just whipped it up here. I didn't use any heat up front on this one. I just went room temperature from a freeze dryer. This is a second wash, 120. So I just went right to the jar and no heat or anything about room temperature whip up or movement on it. And yeah, so it can be beat up a couple times from there.

3:29:20Bryan Best Friend FarmsI just basically shave it down from this hard jar here. Give it a little shave tool and then just kind of beat it up after that. Get it soft and greasy and kind of pick whatever texture you want to go with from there. Some cultivars can definitely go like super greasy, soupy greasy. Like, uh, yeah, I've had a Kendi Pure Kush, Topanga Canyon Pure Kush, the gassy stuff, headband, diesels go super, you know, real, real greasy.

3:29:50Bryan Best Friend FarmsSo yeah, I'm smoking on a bunch of things though. I got some rosin going, some headband rosin. I got this bell. I definitely rolled a doink up and got most of the way through it.

3:29:59BubblemanSo rolled a doink up. I don't know why I'm forever going to laugh at the word doink.

3:30:06Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, it's a good one.

3:30:07BubblemanIt's funny, right? It's like, yeah, I'm going to smash a doink.

3:30:12Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, it sounds like other things, and it's a fun way to phrase it, you know, the donut.

3:30:18BubblemanTotally. I approve.

3:30:20Bryan Best Friend FarmsI think I got that from Colin first. I heard Colin flipping that one around first. Yeah.

3:30:26Nikka TRest in peace, King Dave, on that one. Yeah.

3:30:29SpeakerBig doinks with the Amish. Big doinks on the Amish, baby.

3:30:35Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, that's awesome. What are you smoking on, Marcus, or anyone else? What's going around today?

3:30:41BubblemanI've been smoking on these melts, the Planet Bang Bang and the Papaya Bang Bang. Looked insane. Quite lovely. Planet Bang Bangs just looks like fucking diamonds, right? Just beautiful, clean. This is from Hatch Hash. He whipped this up. And it just has a really like strong sherb flavor on the exhale, the planet bang bang. I think they're all like blueberry crosses or something. The papaya is very nice as well.

3:31:11BubblemanI have three phenos of each of those. And then I got some Death Baba six star. And I got some Yeezy OG six star and some MK Ultra six star. And then I think I have some rosins, but I don't even really know. What they are, I'll tell you, man, once the melts are in the quiver, the rosins sometimes take a back, back, back seat and even end up in the trunk if there's too much melt.

3:31:39BubblemanIt's just like, hey, listen, it's nothing personal. You just got to get in the trunk for you in this back seat.

3:31:46Bryan Best Friend FarmsOn that full-bodied melt dip.

3:31:48BubblemanDude, I fucking love it. And just, you know, hits beautiful through the banger, hits beautiful through the terp slurper. Clean, super easy off a dunk. It's just nice.

3:31:59Bryan Best Friend FarmsHow are you hitting it? Are you going like low and slow? You go back in or just, you know, once?

3:32:05BubblemanThe bubble, I'll hit the bubble around 550, which is a little warmer than I like to hit. But the bubble, man, this is thick bubble. It's six star. It melts away to almost nothing. But it like, it takes a while for the heat, especially as the hits get bigger. As you start smoking it more often, you're like, oh, I just got to put a little more in.

3:32:23BubblemanAnd it's like, holy shit, like I've got to heat this banger up even warmer. So yeah. Yeah, I'll throw it in around 550 and be hitting it at like 520, 530, whereas rosins, I would never hit over 500. What are you getting for your temp?

3:32:38Nikka TWhat am I getting? Are you using Dabrite?

3:32:40BubblemanI got a Dabrite Pro for my DL.

3:32:46Nikka TI use Dabrites as well, and I've even noticed between the homies, 550 is way different on the homies Dabrite compared to mine. It's a trip, so we say 550, and it's like 510 on mine or something. Right, interesting. They're definitely not accurate.

3:33:06BubblemanYeah, I mean, they're probably more accurate than, like, I don't know if they are more accurate than a Puffco or less accurate. This, as well, I set at usually 550 for melt. For me, because I've spent an obsessive amount of time, as I know Etienne has, like a... Thank you for watching.

3:33:41BubblemanPreserves or destroys aromatic volatile compounds as you're inhaling them off said surfaces. I spent a lot of time, as Etienne has, going down that rabbit hole. So one thing I know is how my hash should taste at a certain temperature. I've definitely seen it be variable like that. I originally had a really nice, like a nice one. It was like $150 hash.

3:34:08BubblemanUh, laser, uh, temperature gauge where you could test it against it. I don't have that anymore, but I will say that the temperature on the D nail and the way Brian, who's been the guy that's really led me down this pathway by supplying all these surface areas and heat textures and measuring his heat with infrared. So we can see how even the heat temperature is. I would say out of everyone I know doing this stuff, Brian may be going down the rabbit hole.

3:34:35BubblemanThank you for watching.

3:34:50BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

3:35:21Nikka TYou got the quartz top over there or no?

3:35:24BubblemanNo, gosh, no. Listen, I got the first quartz top, the first prototype. He sent it to me. And I guess it was measured just slightly small. So it fit on perfect. But then as quartz heats, it like contracts or expands. Sorry. No, it was contracting. And I'm sitting here at my office just plugging away working. And I just hear this thing go. And then like quartz is falling down on my arm and hand.

3:35:54BubblemanAnd I'm trying to figure out, dude, I was trying to figure out what happened. I was like, I called him up. He's like, oh yeah, I think we're going to have to go up another millimeter on that size. But that's what I've always done for Brian is just R&D shit. I know Etienne's done the same thing. We just R&D it. We smoke it hard. Anyway, he tried to send me another one.

3:36:14BubblemanI was like, listen, I don't want the quartz. Top I've got PTSD now I'm like gonna sit at that thing like could you imagine getting a piece of quartz in the eye or something like dude I cannot get like good the whole reason I use this thing is because it's like safer than a torch I love not having the sound of a torch like right now as we're talking I can have my banger getting heated up and it doesn't have that sound that in the background so

3:36:42Dr Mark ScialdoneJust so we're correct on the physics, heat makes things expand, right?

3:36:47BubblemanCold makes things contract. Yes, thank you. So the weird thing is, is though, yeah, I'm sure it was expanding. This is the weird thing. It fit over top.

3:36:57Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

3:36:58BubblemanNot inside. But it still expanded and somehow broke, but there was nothing on the outside. The metal probably expanded slightly.

3:37:08Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, if you have different temperatures and part of it is expanding, but part of it is not expanding, that's where you get the strain and the cracks, right?

3:37:18BubblemanYeah, this didn't crack. It exploded. And I suspect what it must have done is it was fine when I heated it up. I probably turned it off. Exactly, Nickity. I probably turned it off and then it cooled down. And as it cooled down, it was probably just getting tighter and tighter around the base of the or the top of this unit. Either way, it's a great unit.

3:37:40BubblemanAnd that was one moment in time. And I don't want to sully the good name of D-Nail. I do love this unit. Yeah, I love it. It lets me know what my hash did taste like. And I will say, surprisingly, like if I hit the same hash that I'm smoking out of this at 550 off quarts, if I hit it at 550 through this, it's very, very close to the same flavor profile.

3:38:05BubblemanIt's not far off. So, you know, that's, that's kind of how I judge it.

3:38:14BubblemanThat's how I judge it. Anyone down for a dab? We've got about 20 minutes left before we shut her down, which is probably a perfect time for like 10 new people to come in, start us down the super deep rabbit hole of conversation. No, that was last week or the week before.

3:38:27Jenn DoeJust to throw this into a different thing, your story of that exploding and having the PTSD about it reminds me of the first and last time that I had a ceramic metal halide bulb explode on me. Yeah, while I was in the room, it was terrifying. It literally exploded. I never ran those bulbs again.

3:38:50BubblemanYeah, anyone that's ever been, just the sound of that, the pop and how loud it is, it's scary.

3:38:54Jenn DoeIt's awful. It's awful. And those bits, those shards of glass are so hot. Like, I had like linoleum down on the floor and it burned through the linoleum. Like, I was lucky that I had actually just moved away from that space. So it just, I think I ended up with like one or two little scratches, little burns, but most of it like took out my entire veg that was right under that.

3:39:19Jenn DoeCause it was just, and then the powder, there's like a powder and it comes down to that. Anyway, that happens once and you don't tend to want to go back to that situation.

3:39:29BubblemanNo, for real. That's hardcore. I can't believe you made it, Mike. What up guys?

3:39:34SpeakerHow you guys doing? Sorry for being so late. Dude, I almost missed it.

3:39:42BubblemanDude, I'm glad you made it. Maybe we could finish it off with some of your like insane Barcelona stories, dude. Like I only met Mike fairly recently in the last year or two. He crushed legends with his full mount, showed up like a fucking class act, giant ice cubes, like proper cubes. You know, keeping everything cold. Cold supply chain his shit through the whole contest. Crushed the Barcelona legends.

3:40:08BubblemanCrushed everything. I think he crushed Matt. I think you won like two or three or four contests while you were there. And then we ended up bumping into each other in the hotel when all of our flights got cancelled out of London. So we ended up having... Well, I'll let you tell some of the stories, dude, because that was pretty good times, man.

3:40:26SpeakerYeah, that was the... That was a crazy time over there in London, man. I still won't forget that time that you talked us out of the security guys coming to our room as we were dabbing in the room. It was crazy, man.

3:40:41BubblemanDude, did you hear what I was saying? I can promise you, they are absolutely not consuming cannabis in that room.

3:40:51SpeakerWe have like the freaking disorderly conduct just set up right there, the rig right behind my leg. It was crazy, dude. It was a crazy time. But yeah, back to Spanibus last year. I came out there for four different competitions. And it was for the Masters of Brosnan, Eagle Class. I think I was doing the Dabadoo. And some other competition I forget. However, I came out there with all my entries and I got pulled over in a rental by the police out there and I got caught with a bunch of my entries.

3:41:39SpeakerHowever, yeah, I had left a melt entry, a backup melt entry for Eagle Class and I ended up Cooling my entry from Eagle Clash because Brandon had hit me up. He was like, dude, I can't make it out there. I need you to help me with the tables. So I ended up hosting the competition. And I used that entry, the melt entry, which was the Zebu full melt that I won with at the Eagle Clash in Mendocino.

3:42:12SpeakerAnd then I entered it in Legends of Hash, which was with you guys. And it ended up coming out first place. I guess it was, I think it was against Rosin too, was it? You had melt.

3:42:25BubblemanYou had melt.

3:42:26SpeakerYeah, but it was Rosin and melt in the same category, I believe.

3:42:30BubblemanIt was, yes, exactly. Yeah, that was crazy. Everything. It crushed everything.

3:42:36SpeakerIt was so good.

3:42:37BubblemanBut yeah, tell the story about like, because I remember I was like, at one point, I was like, dude, what happened to your hair? It looks like you got like someone clipped you with the clippers.

3:42:45SpeakerOh, man. So as I was in there, I got locked up for all these entries. And like, dude, thanks to Terp's Army, Lorenzo, he had hit up a lawyer. To help me out, get me out in there. And so the way I was able to get out was I had to say that all this hash that I had was for personal use. And the only way they were to prove that was to take hair samples from like a hair sample, hair follicle test.

3:43:20SpeakerAnd when I took the hair follicle test, I was like, oh, yeah, it's cool. I'll take a little fucking, you know what I mean? A little hair here and there. And as they're taking my hair, dude, they fucking just took off like fucking big ass fucking chunk right here and right here. And that's why when I showed up, I like had these fucking bald spots in my head.

3:43:41SpeakerYou know what I mean? It was like fucking insane. I was just walking around with this bald spot and...

3:43:48BubblemanDude, they were gnarly bald spots. They were literally like 50 cent piece fucking bald spots on your top of your head on either side. I was like, whoa. But tell them how the test turned out.

3:44:00SpeakerOh, yeah, it turned it out. Yeah, I had a lot of hash in my system, which was a good thing. They ended up releasing me because I had a good significant amount of hash in my system. So, yeah, that was, that was just the, yeah, that was the crazy part right there. Fucking, yeah, they took my test and they had to let me out. I still have to go back and handle a bunch of court shit for the, for the case, which is why I'm going back this year.

3:44:33SpeakerYeah.

3:44:36SpeakerOther than that, man, fucking, it was a wild ride. I fucking came out there for some competitions, got locked up, got out, took first place in Legends of Hash, fucking came back home, you know, made it back home. It was a, it was good.

3:44:51BubblemanYou know, even the way you made it back home, like even the hotel and us like trying to figure out how we could dab. And that's the other thing. That was like a 30 to 45 minute long like, oh, I've got this. Oh, it won't work. We're in London. Oh, wait, I have a converter. Oh, wait, it's the wrong converter. Oh, wait, I might have a plug that fits into that thing.

3:45:11BubblemanOh, wait, no, it's the wrong plug. And we just kept going through all of our suitcases. Oh, my God. Trying to figure out a way to make it work. And then when we finally made it work, this stupid fucking hotel, dude, there was this weird like wall behind the wall and it sort of recirculated all the air from all the rooms. And so us just being like, let's get high.

3:45:31BubblemanAnd we like blasting these fucking massive rips of like the Z booth and like the winner of legends basically and exhaling it into the hotel, dude, in minutes. There was every single security person in that hotel. And there was a lot of them. It was the Marriott.

3:45:49SpeakerThere was like nine of them, dude.

3:45:51BubblemanAt least. When I opened the door to look out, I could see them going... Walking down the hallway smelling, but they couldn't tell where it was coming from. And that's, that's what I had on my side. I was like, listen, we smell it too. It's in our room. We're just not, they basically came to our room because we were probably the only fucking room that didn't call and asked to be moved immediately into a different room that didn't smell like this.

3:46:16BubblemanCause he said that they had a lot of requests on our floor to be moved out of their rooms immediately. I was like, man, those people don't know what they're missing. It's like, this is the dank. But instead, I feel like I hid all of the jars that you had under the sink in the piping so that if they did come in, they wouldn't find them. And then I just bluffed them out in the hallway.

3:46:38BubblemanI just said, listen, these are nice young people. I just met them. And I'm telling you, they're good folks. And there's no, listen, what, we're just burning cannabis? And the guy's like, oh, I don't know. I think you're vaping it. I'm like, vaping? Vaping, you mean like nicotine? I don't know what you're talking about, man. But I know there. Do I smell like burned cannabis? No. Do you smell burned cannabis?

3:46:59BubblemanLook, I smell that whatsoever is in the air as well. But there's no way to know that that came out of this room. It could be as it's as strong in every room on this floor. And we fucking got away with it, dude, which is gnarly because London's not like a cannabis friendly city. Like we probably, I don't know, dude, you were like surfing. You could probably on that trip, I know you couldn't have known that you were going to have that trip.

3:47:22BubblemanI just figured that's how you were always in life. I was like, wow, Mike's just a fucking maniac. He's like, he could sell tickets to go on a chaos ride. You could just go on a trip with the trichome tortoise.

3:47:32SpeakerYou know, earlier in my life, I could say I could agree to like being that way. However, that was like a little flashback of, How my life used to be, you know? I was like, damn, I'm going to fucking jail.

3:47:45BubblemanWell, I'm glad you didn't. But I'll tell you, surfing the edge of almost going to jail. Again? I'll tell you, that was fun.

3:47:51SpeakerIn another country? It would be fucking crazy.

3:47:54BubblemanYeah. Insane. That's true. Well, I'm glad. I hope that it all works out for you in March. And hopefully we'll see you in Barcelona here in a couple of weeks.

3:48:02SpeakerOh, yeah, most definitely. Yeah, we'll be out there for sure. What's up, Bobby? What's up, buddy? Be careful this year, man. Yeah, yeah, for sure, man. Be careful every year.

3:48:14BubblemanHey, Bobby, why don't you tell Mike our story of when we first met in Barcelona?

3:48:21SpeakerThat was crazy, too. I don't know, you might just carry like crazy aura, you know what I'm saying? Like, he pulled up on a motorcycle and I just got out of a cab. I was like, oh, that's really cool. That's Bo, man. I hadn't even met him yet in person or anything, so... You know, I walked up and said, what's up? And we went to go find a place to go puff, walked up these stairs.

3:48:42SpeakerWe were waiting for everyone to get to the restaurant for this master's dinner. And I fucking left a bag of like 56 grams of random jars of rosin in the cab. And I was like, shit, dude, I don't know what to do. I'm on some weird app. And he was like, just hit him up and see, you know, like it hadn't been, luckily I realized rather quickly because I had nothing to pull out and smoke.

3:49:08SpeakerAnd so I hit the guy up on the app and dude, luckily he turned around in like probably five or 10 minutes or whatever and brought me back that massive bag of rosin. You know, it was like, not even like a backpack. It was just like a little bag. With nothing but like 20 jars of rosin in it. So if he would have just opened it, you know what I mean?

3:49:29SpeakerHe would have. 20 jars of rosin. I thought it was your Masters of Rosin entries.

3:49:34BubblemanI thought it was all 64 of your Masters of Rosin entries.

3:49:38SpeakerI'm pretty sure that the pelican of that was in there too. This was just like a fucking my bag of hash on it. I had that I had accumulated from Slay and other people on the trip out there. So I definitely had, it definitely had all of the entries and some random rosin in it, but the man brought it back. We were puffing it minutes later, dude.

3:49:59SpeakerHe brought it back. And we shared a nice puff on the stairs, right?

3:50:03BubblemanAnd then I said to you, I said to you, I was so happy that you got your hashback because I just didn't want to, I didn't want to meet you that way, you know? And then funny enough, funny enough, days later, I would meet Jolly Roger in a way that I wouldn't want to meet Jolly Roger. I'm so happy to be cool with, with Roger now and be on like a better, like,

3:50:27SpeakerThat is great, because that was an interesting interaction.

3:50:32BubblemanIt was an anomaly, dude.

3:50:33SpeakerThere was no harshness going on whatsoever. It was just like a very off-timing type thing that happened, you know? Oh, I felt terrible, dude.

3:50:43BubblemanPeople kept going like, dude, he should have gotten so mad at you. I'm like, bro, I coughed in his face.

3:50:49SpeakerThere's a big size difference between the two. So it was, you know, something that was so unintentional, you know, When someone's a lot shorter than you and they cross paths, it kind of seems like that, but it was a crazy interaction.

3:51:03BubblemanI give a positive shout out to Jolly Roger and Puffco. They're our sponsors today. They're super supportive and awesome, and I'm so glad that I got past that most insane... I don't think I've ever offended a person faster in my entire life. Like that was under two seconds. You were there. You were the witness.

3:51:22SpeakerIt was under two seconds. My jaw was on the floor, I'm sure, and I looked crazy.

3:51:27BubblemanAll of you. You all looked crazy. Frosty was there. Alice was there.

3:51:31SpeakerMe and Matt Jackson were shooting it together.

3:51:34BubblemanMy wife was with me. All your jaws were on the floor. I was like, oh my God, that was crazy. So shout out.

3:51:40Jenn DoeCan you tell me what happened? Like what?

3:51:43BubblemanYeah, I was, I was, I was taking a puff. I can't remember who was right next to me, but it was someone that walked away.

3:51:52SpeakerI don't remember. I know Madison was there and I know me and Matt, my wife.

3:51:58BubblemanI don't remember this person because this was the person that left that created the hole in our little circle and For Roger to slip in. For Roger to come and hang out into. And so, and I can't remember. It was like one of my buddies or something. And he was right beside me. And I was like, I was like leaning over, hunched over, taking a big rip.

3:52:18SpeakerWell, tell them what you were smoking it through too, though.

3:52:21BubblemanOh, yeah, yeah. I was smoking it out of the Legends Carta. There's all these like long... There's so many. There was so many layers to it. And I can't even get into all of it. Oh, my God. That is so crazy. I basically just... I turned around because I thought my buddy was not there. Someone was walking up on this other side. I just turned around and like coughed out my dab that I just took.

3:52:43BubblemanAnd I really did it like in his face. Like it was terribly rude and bad and he was upset about it. And I was... I'm not reading the room the right way. I was thinking he was kind of being like a dry sarcasm humor. And I sort of, yeah, it was like totally, I apologized a million times. In the end, like I said.

3:53:03Jenn DoeAnd then he saw the card and it was like 10 times worse.

3:53:06BubblemanWell, I mean, to me it was, you know what I mean? To me, it was all on top of that. Just this really, and then I imagine Bobby and Frosty all kind of being like, oh, these are two people that would totally get along. That are like having this bad experience. So I am very happy to have a good experience with Roger. I hope to be a part of their Jar Check in Barcelona this year.

3:53:31BubblemanIn the least, I'll go and hang out. But I definitely told him when he was on Hash Church last that I really was inspired by the Jar Check. I think that's an awesome event. Super cool. Great way to... Uh, popularize the, the, the, the processes and the end products and bring people together and bring other people together that are like, I just want to go see the rosins in the hashes that are showing up at these jar checks because, uh, you know, it's very much, it's funny cause I listened to this book by Wayne Gretzky recently.

3:54:02BubblemanI'm no, I'm Canadian. I'm an old hockey player. I love Wayne Gretzky, um, back from the eighties when he was winning all the cups with Edmonton. And he's, he's talking in his book about, You know, the best hockey players are also players that try to build the game because hockey doesn't hold a candle to NFL football and baseball and basketball. These are massive American sports football in Europe.

3:54:29BubblemanHockey is so much smaller, so they've always really needed to build the game of hockey. And I feel the same thing with being a hash maker. Companies like Puffco that are out there trying to normalize, make equipment for dabs, trying to normalize. I mean, listen, we knew years ago people were not going to be getting turned on in the future with giant blowtorches and, you know, hot bangers and stuff like we had to like soften That edge, that hardcore-ness of getting a dab in.

3:54:59BubblemanAnd so I, yeah, I have a deep appreciation for all of the people on the panel, all the people that have pushed and built the game, if you will, of hash making and cannabis growing. And just, you know, I would surmise that the game for me is everything. It encompasses recreational, it encompasses medical, it encompasses preventative. It encompasses all aspects of growing and processing and it even encompasses the business side of it and the business end of it of building a brand, creating economic viability, creating consistency, understanding, you know, Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:55:39BubblemanWe'll see you next time.

3:56:04Nikka TThe solventless soldiers.

3:56:05BubblemanThat's awesome. Yeah, you got to have your ambassadors out there building the game. And so when I met Mike for the first time, I was like, oh, dude, I just like everything about this guy. He's just an absolute full blown chaos turn to 10 full melts, just like ripping massive dabs, just like going 100 miles an hour, winning every contest. He's just like, I tried to get him a trophy.

3:56:29BubblemanIt took me so long to get him a trophy. He won like five other contests in the time that he won the contest that I owed him the trophy for by the time I actually got him the trophy. Now in my defense, he bakingly sent me his address to a house that he moved out of.

3:56:48SpeakerBut we got it back and we got it to you. We got it. We got it. We got the trophy.

3:56:54BubblemanThat's the important part.

3:56:55Nikka TThat's awesome. Very cool.

3:56:57BubblemanWe got five minutes left. I don't know what everyone wants to maybe have one last rip a dipple. I think I'll hit the mothership. Shout out to Scott Deppie and the crew at Mothership for just always pushing the levels. Puffco actually did a cool video. I don't know if you guys saw it, but they did a cool little video on Mothership and the pipes recently. It was like a premiere.

3:57:21BubblemanIt was only about four or five minutes long. So and I'm sure you could probably find it on their YouTube channel. But if not, I will find it and put the link in the description of this hash church here. Thanks.

3:57:39SpeakerThat was from their trip to Portland recently for the jar check. They went to Seattle to go see Mothership and everyone and they came down to Portland to do their little jar check. How did they like your jar? I personally wasn't able to go. I was on the road down to go to Ego Clash. So I know some of the people that are here in town brought jars of mine up to them.

3:58:00Etienne FontanWhat happened in December?

3:58:03SpeakerWhat's that? It happened in December, early December. Yeah, it was like the day before Ego Clash, and I had to come down to bring all the yield bags a little bit early, so I drove down the day before, so I wasn't able to go personally, but I had just done a collab with a buddy here in town, and I know he brought some of his material, some finished jars up to him for that, so they at least saw some, yeah.

3:58:28SpeakerNice, nice.

3:58:30BubblemanLittle mini flag for me.

3:58:32SpeakerHell yeah. Yeah, I've got my thing heating up. I'll go grab it. Hey, do you mind if I do a quick show and tell, Bubble Man?

3:58:43Etienne FontanShow and teller. Let's see it, man. All right, let me get to this.

3:58:47SpeakerOh, you got me mid-dab.

3:58:50Etienne FontanYeah, I'm just going to do it.

3:58:51BubblemanNo, absolutely not. It's unacceptable.

3:58:57Etienne FontanSo since y'all will not be at the United Nations, I wanted to show you the display. This is the first time we've had a cannabis display on the floor. We're also going to have live plants. So this is the 100th centenary of prohibition in the EU. So we're making the world leaders aware of that. So this is, of course, the Cannabis Embassy. This is sponsored by By Fields of Green for All, who is a non-governmental organization and our friend Myrtle Clark and them out of South Africa.

3:59:35Etienne Fontanand um yeah so this is will be um it's a two by three meter uh has displays and this is basically educating people about cannabis there's my group veterans action council um soft secrets is there too so it shows cannabis and hemp We'll talk specifically about it gives a brief understanding for people because these again are world leaders so they're not really well educated on cannabis. Then we got some sexy colas for people to see because the plants that we have are not going to be flowered.

4:00:14Etienne FontanAnd then for many voices and then fields of greed for all. And of course, the Cannabis Embassy were putting this on. And our friends Kenzie and Farid went to Geneva and actually smoked outside of where the treaty was signed 100 years ago this past week. And which, of course, included cannabis. And again, this is just information to make people and world leaders aware of the disparity and why plants should not be part of the treaties and made illegal.

4:00:52Etienne FontanSo oddly enough, we're set up next to a drug free world. So we're going to be educating a lot of the world body on cannabis, the biodiversity of cannabis, and why, you know, the wasting of a hundred years was a waste of time, money, people's lives, and unfortunately wiped out, you know, Thank you for watching.

4:01:41Etienne FontanMost importantly, thank you Fields of Green for All and our friends in South Africa, fought out of France, etc. So sorry to preoccupy the time. I love smoking, but at the same time, we can smoke and do our activism at the same time. Absolutely, dude.

4:01:56BubblemanWell, that takes us to one o'clock. Four hours of solid hash church today. I want to thank our sponsors, Low Tent Plates. Give thanks to those guys and the Mini Osprey. You use a Mini Osprey, don't you, Bobby?

4:02:08SpeakerYeah, I use all those types of equipment. I use their presses, the Osprey, the Mini.

4:02:15BubblemanYeah, you quite love the equipment they've been working on for you, obviously. You're another guy that just wins contests consistently.

4:02:22SpeakerYeah, I love it a ton. I mean, the most recent Legends I won was Melt that came out of the Osprey and out of the Garden here that, you know. I felt very confident in and it ended up placing first place at that. So it definitely does good work. Is it hard to clean? Not really. Not at all. No, we can clean it out really fast in between runs and even at the end of the day.

4:02:48SpeakerSo no, it's quick and easy to clean. I've been checking out other options. So I know that you've got a new option like for a micro washer as well. So that would be cool to check out as well.

4:03:01BubblemanYeah, absolutely. I use all sorts of equipment myself. We definitely have Ospreys and Hashtex and Whistler Technologies. There's a variety of different equipments.

4:03:11SpeakerYeah, I checked out the Hashtex mini option when he had one out at Ego Clash and that thing was really cool too. You know, if you're doing the really small little pheno runs or something, that thing would be great. Doesn't take up much space at all either in comparison to the mini.

4:03:27BubblemanYeah, absolutely. And you can go down into your five gallon and your one gallon bags. Then Buddy's got his little dial. That's pretty cool too, the little resin dial. Yeah, for sure. Lots of good ways. So yeah, shout out to Low Temp for the sponsorship today on Hash Church. Give thanks to those guys over there. Give thanks to the Puffco crew for also sponsoring and just giving us good support, hooking us up with great people, panelists, the whole nine yards.

4:03:54BubblemanUnfortunately, Juliana from Puffco, she's from Colombia. She had introduced me To a whole variety of people, there was four or five of them, different international hash makers, because I thought that would be a good aspect to hear from. But none of them were able to, the time difference might have just thrown them off that PST 9 a.m. thing. But shout out to all of them. Hopefully we'll get them on Hash Church here sooner than later.

4:04:21BubblemanThank you all for showing up and sharing your vibes and puffing your hash with us. Thank you to the four to five hundred people that watched today and hung out and chat and Just supports the whole hash church community. Give thanks to all of you. And yeah, may the full mouth bless your bowl sooner than later. Hash not rosin. Live by that.