Quebec Dispatches: Full Melt Bubble, CBD at the UN, and the Future of Patient Access

0:00BubblemanThere's now a button on the YouTube room that I have to push go live. And if I don't push that, I believe it does not go live. So let's make sure that we are live. Let's make sure that we are live. I hope it's live. Nope. Not yet. Okay, here we go. It's showing live right here. It's definitely a strange one. Rub the same oil on the, oh, there we go.

0:28BubblemanOh, thank you, OG Brick. It's always a strange thing. Now I'm live. Took about a minute after I pushed the live button. So there we go. I'm just going to listen to this quick little advertisement, not. All right, so let's get back to first of all, welcome everyone to the show. It's Hash Church season 12, episode 11. Very nice to see you all. I have been away for the last week in Quebec, which was wonderful.

0:55BubblemanWe're going to talk a little bit about that. And in the meantime, I am going to sponsor a sponsor. I'm going to shout out our sponsors here. So just give me a second. I will admit, Caleb, while I'm shutting out the sponsors, here we go. All right, let's find this and that. One second, Caleb. Welcome, brother. I'm going to do a quick shout out to the sponsors because it wasn't live.

1:20BubblemanSo today's episode of Hash Church is... He's proudly supported by the Press Club. California Brothers obsessed with hash and everything solventless, just like us. Their journey didn't start as a business. It started as a family back in 2014 when a loved one wasn't finding relief through conventional medicine. These guys turned back to the plant. They'd respect their whole lives. They knew cannabis had medicinal power. They needed something cleaner.

1:41BubblemanAnd that search, of course, led them to solventless, using nothing but water, heat, and pressure to let the plant express itself honestly. That light bulb moment turned into washing, pressing, experimenting, and eventually realizing how hard it was to find truly high quality rosin bags and solventless tools that were made in America and still affordable. So they did what real hash heads do. They built the solution themselves.

2:04BubblemanPress Club stands for clean process, conscious intention, and tools made by people who actually live the culture, not corporations chasing trends. We're really grateful to have the Press Club supporting Hash Church and the wider solventless community, family run, purpose driven and rooted in why hash matters in the first place. Much love to the Press Club and obviously thank you guys for your support. It means a lot to us.

2:30BubblemanYou know, at Hash Church, we talk a lot about ritual and respect for the plant and elevating the experience. And that's exactly why we're proud to be supported by Puffco. These guys continue to set the standards for modern consumption with tools built for people who truly care about flavor, temperature and intentional use, but also really to access the mainstream. I think all of us can agree hitting a banger is awesome.

2:51BubblemanBut the convenience of the Puffco's from the Puffco Peak Pro with the 3D XL Bowl to the Proxy redefining modular ritual-based consumption and the Pivot bringing true Puffco performance into a compact everyday format. These are gadgets. They're purpose-built tools for hash and solventless. And we are genuinely grateful for Puffco's continued support of Hash Church, our guests, and our community. Huge shout out to Puffco for sending Monica and Forrest and ATN to Austria to speak to the UN.

3:20BubblemanThat was also incredible. Hopefully ATN comes in and gives us a little update today. Really, their belief in education, culture, and quality keeps us, it helps us keep these conversations alive. You can support the brand that supports the culture by visiting puffco.com. Explore the lineup and experience what intentional design really feels like. So thank you to those gentlemen. And I would be remiss if I didn't mention my own company.

3:45BubblemanWe wouldn't be here without the pioneers who helped define the solventless extraction, and bubble bags are a cornerstone of that industry. Bubble bags helped introduce the world to ice water extraction, giving growers and hash makers a simple, effective way to separate resin using nothing but water and ice and agitation. Decades later, seriously, three decades, their bags, our bags, my bags, remain a trusted tool for people who care about purity.

4:08BubblemanProcess and tradition from home runs to professional washes. Bubble bags continue to support true solventless craft, allowing the plant to speak for itself. We're super stoked to be supported by Bubble Bags and grateful for their ongoing support of Hash Church, our guests, and the global hash community. The commitment to quality, accessibility, and accessibility has empowered generations of makers, literally three generations of makers. Support the brands that built the culture.

4:34BubblemanYou can visit bubblebag.com, explore our extraction bags and accessories, and keep the solventless tradition alive. Bubble bags. That's the old water ice hash, which I have a little bit of ice water hash to show today. I'm not going to lie. I'm pretty excited about it. Welcome to Caleb in the room and welcome to Masonic. How the hell are you guys doing on this fine Sunday afternoon?

4:58SpeakerFeeling hashy. Feeling hashy? What's up, Marcus?

5:05BubblemanHey, what's up, Marcus?

5:06SpeakerCan you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you, bro. Yeah, I was in the back feeding chickens and watering clones and I got chicken shit on my hand and had to wash it off and now I'm all professional now. I'm in the podcast studio.

5:22BubblemanLife in Compton, dude. From the chicken shit to the podcast studio.

5:28SpeakerYeah, dude.

5:30BubblemanI love it. How often do you get weird conspiracy people hit you up and go, what's up with this Masonic stuff, man? Are you a Mason?

5:38SpeakerAt least once a month, I want to say. Yeah. Where are you from? Where do you dwell? You know, the secret code words that they use. What's your degree? Yeah, and it's always, I'm not a Freemason. That's my answer every time. I'm not a Freemason.

5:56BubblemanI didn't think you were myself, but I saw someone busting on you for that one time, and I just thought, holy fuck, I bet you this is like every other week he's getting one of these dudes going down the rabbit hole.

6:08SpeakerNo doubt. It's a nice fitting name. It fits the lore of Illuminati confirmed and, you know, all the all the stuff, you know, predetermining and just being like, oh, yeah, it must be. It must be like a secret entity that caused, you know, everything that I've gained to this point. You know, it can't be just hard work and and just being a player of the game. It must be some type of payola or something going behind scenes for sure.

6:33BubblemanYeah, you sold your health, your soul to Moloch, the Luciferian energy or some fucking... Listen, I used to enjoy it. I used to read the books and I'd giggle and laugh. And I went down the David Icke rabbit hole like 25 years ago. And I read Robert Anton Wilson before that, the Illuminatus Trilogy and Schrodinger's Cat and The Coincidence and Cosmic Trigger. They were quite entertaining, I have to say.

7:00BubblemanOnce you start thinking it's real, it's not entertaining anymore. It's like psychotic. It's like, Jesus Christ, this is not good. I don't want to go down a rabbit hole, whether it's real or not, of people eating babies and fucking whatever else these conspiracy holes lead you down. I think I'd rather talk about hash.

7:20SpeakerNo doubt, no doubt. Yeah, everyone had things where it's like, oh, your days are numbered. And they'll show me like, what's his name? The dude from Passed Away, Tom Hanks, like the blood on his face. Oh, right.

7:32BubblemanSnazzle Drip or whatever.

7:34SpeakerWe know what you're doing, Mace. And it's just like, take a leak.

7:37BubblemanBrazzle Drip. That's what it is. That ties into the... There's a whole conspiracy about that pizza gate, right? And frazzled drip. It's fucking mental insanity. It's like Hillary Clinton pulling off someone's face and wearing it on her face and like, holy shit. First of all... I know there's a reason why I don't follow politics. 100%.

7:58SpeakerYeah, exactly. A dirty or rogue source.

8:03BubblemanJust madness. So listen, I was in Quebec for the last week. I was doing R&D for a new project I got going on over there with these awesome folks at Canara. Try to explain this to me. These guys, you know, they're like, go through the vault, check some stuff out, figure out what you like. I find this bubble. I'm like, this bubble is like beautiful. I don't even have a picture of it.

8:28BubblemanI don't think it's joined up to my phone yet. But you could tell even from just the picture of the bubble in the bin, like it doesn't take much to be like, no, that's there. I want to try that. I want to smoke that. So I took a little bit and, you know, a big part of and this is kind of a bit of the conversation I wanted to have in regards to Full Melt Bubble.

8:51BubblemanIt's a very strange customer base. Very few people understand it. Very few people want it because they just don't understand it. And the people that do want it seem to be like very strict on, I need it in powder and I need the cold supply chain. And so we were talking about like, we can't do that in Canada. There's either you don't release full melt bubble or you do and it's going to get greased out.

9:16BubblemanAnd so we started sort of playing around with this concept and idea of pre-greasing the bubble. In fact, as always i mean so much of this industry has been inspired by adam dunn like if you really one day i'm gonna have him on the show and talk about all the he did in amsterdam back in the 90s into the 2000s from the first like heat gun to seeing the triple x extractor from reinhardt to just so much of the stuff well adam was obviously one of the first people To create the little hash coins.

9:46BubblemanI can't remember the year. It must have been 02 or 03. I believe it was the Sage 2-0. So it would have been Mojave's Sage 2-0, Sage, sorry, made into Waterhash. Let me just find this real quick because I want to invite Mojave. I know he's often busy, but just in case he isn't, we're talking about Talking about the Sage 2.0. So back in the day, it was, oh, who was it?

10:15BubblemanIt's crazy if I don't remember the name. This coffee shop, the Katsu, I believe it was the Katsu, they released an entry for the cannabis cup and it was a Sage 2.0 disc. And all Adam did was he made a little square piece of cellophane. And he put a little bit of hash in there and made it, maybe he rolled it up and made it round so that when he ran it through a small like laminator or a press, you could even do it with your hands.

10:40BubblemanWe did this with our hands. It just kind of pre-greased out the hash. And I thought, what a cool way to bring back selling Full Melt Bubble as a disc in between the cellophane. I thought, fuck, this is such a cool little idea. Look at the quality of that fucking hash, dude. That is like, it is five to six star easily. It comes off quite easy. If you drop it in, I've got a little cooler here.

11:10BubblemanYou drop it in a little, you know, fridge or freezer, get it a little cold, pulls off super nice. Melts like extremely well. Like I wanted to call it a five star, but it was leaving such little Chaz in my banger and on my Q-tip that it is borderline a six. And so this was made at a monster MSO. These guys have, I think, 15,000 lights burning at the one facility, a one five zero zero zero.

11:40BubblemanAnd so it pushes back on what we know in regards to. I mean, obviously no one's going to argue that when you have smaller grows, you know, it's, you can take, you can care for it. There's this aspect of craft growing, necessarily super small, but even one guy might be able to grow an acre or a small greenhouse or a 50 light room. But generally when you get into the multi-thousand, oh, Maui Gold Pineapple.

12:07BubblemanAll right, I'm fucking, that sounds good. It sounds good. I'll have to hit this bubble up. Which is the name of this bubble hash. I'm just going to get a little colder and then I'll break off a little piece and throw it in the banger. Incredible quality is all I'm saying. This is full melt, almost six star bubble, and it's produced in rooms with thousands of lights.

12:28BubblemanAnd what we talk about here on Hash Church and most of the people that come on and most of the people that I talk to in the cannabis world do not believe that it's possible to grow quality resin on a scale that big. And these guys just keep showing me time and time and time again That it is indeed possible. And not only possible, it is, you know, completely reasonable and doable.

12:57BubblemanWhat's up, Josh? Welcome, dude. We're talking about Full Melt Bubble. And we're talking about Full Melt Bubble produced in a 15,000 light grow. 15,000 lights. Canara. Canara.

13:18BubblemanQuebec. I asked them, do you have enough to do a SKU? They say, oh yeah, yeah, we have 45 kilos of that. That particular grade right there, we have 45 kilos of that. 45,000 grams of this. Does this not... Push the boundaries of your brain in the way we think. Like you guys are in agreeance with me, right? It's like smaller. Josh has even taken it to the nth degree of leaving soil, organic, regenerative, like all these amazing things.

13:49BubblemanHow the fuck is a company producing fucking six star bubble hash in a 15,000 light grow? I'm telling you, dude. Hats off to fucking Canara. Time and time again, I go to this place and they absolutely blow my fucking mind. The culture of how healthy the culture is, the people that work together, they're not like, they're all just like really enjoying one another and liking one another.

14:20BubblemanAnd I was blown away that they had this much six star just sort of, you know, just sitting there.

14:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo that six star, is that like just straight out of the fridge? Is it cured? Is it fresh? What type of six star is it?

14:37BubblemanSo this six star is, it was right out of the freezer. I put, I want to, okay, so the conversation started like this, Josh. The majority of people who want to buy full melt want cold supply chain. Welcome, Dr. Marcus. They want a cold supply chain and they want their powder to show up as powder. But this becomes almost impossible at the point of which we are now, at least in the Canadian regulatory framework to make sure everyone gets refrigerators and freezers and make sure everyone's, you know, it's just almost impossible.

15:12BubblemanSo I had an idea. You know, what if I greased it out? Like, I know that, you know, people like, oh, they'll buy it greased out and then they'll go on Reddit and be like, it was already greased out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they'll still smoke it and love it, but try to get their money back for it, which sucks. You know, we're doing a lot of work.

15:29BubblemanIt's super, it's the, it's a fucking unicorn. Okay. This is not an easy thing to make. That's why there's not an enormous amount of it on the, um, the market. So what I did was I took a page out of Adam Dunn's book and I put a little bit of powder and some cellophane and I just In fact, I just hand pressed it. That's how melty it was.

15:49BubblemanI'll tell you a funny story. I put it in a laminator pouch to run it through a laminator just to see if I could get it like to turn into a coin. And it was already at 200 degrees. And I thought, oh, that's too hot. We need to wait for the laminator to go down to 100. I run this thing through the laminator. I pull it out at the other end.

16:08BubblemanThere's not a drop of hash in the laminator. It's all gone. It has turned into a clear liquid and it is now inside my laminator, the entire gram. So I was like, holy fuck, I'd never seen anything like it. It blew me away, dude. The quality blew me away. Everyone in the room was looking at it going, what the fuck? Like we're looking at the pouch and there's nothing there except maybe a slight curve of a water stain, which is really the hash itself.

16:37BubblemanIt became a clear, thin, viscous, almost invisible gram of hash. So I did the rest in my hand. I took a couple of grams. I pressed them out. I got them into these little discs. This disc isn't going to look nice anymore because I've been pulling it and stretching it. It's got ripples in it now. But I thought what a cool little idea for full melt to be pre-greased.

17:00BubblemanNow, I've had this out of the freezer for a couple of days and it is still very much like pull and snap. I'm going to test how many days it takes before this butters out. Because if I sell it as a pull and snap, people are gonna be like, oh, it buttered out, I want my money back. Thank you for watching.

17:35BubblemanThe smokers accept a pre-greased disc of hash in the Canadian market. I've never really seen it. I've seen shit go into jars and grease out at room temperature because no one's keeping it cold. But I just thought I'd bring up the conversation with you guys. You know, for the most part, full melt is the kind of thing you just want to keep in the freezer all the time.

17:59BubblemanBut this is a little different. And when you hold it up to the light... It literally looks like it's completely see-through. Like it is absolutely completely see-through. It's as nice as any bubble I've probably smoked in my life. And in fact, it's very reminiscent of the late 90s, early 2000s, where I just used to always have it rolled up and snaked out. I even made a little snake of this the other day, my first snake in about 28 years.

18:27BubblemanAnd I dropped it into one of those Tom Hill haze joints, a little haze of the bubble up, just a tiny little, little shnaker. I was a super bitch to try and get that thing to fall off my fingers and get it into the joint. It's been a while since I did that. Yeah, exactly. And then I kind of pushed a little of the flower out and ran it on top of the snake.

18:48BubblemanFor those of you that don't roll many snakes, you want to cover the top of the snake or the joint is going to run very badly. So you want to dump it into the weed and then you want to sort of throw a little bit more powder over top of that and give it a little go. So I'm excited to to fucking hit this. But I would love to hear everyone's opinion on what they think about You know, selling pre-greased resin, selling resin that maybe went past pre-grease and went from what this is right now, which is very, it's very like shatter.

19:21BubblemanIt's almost like shatter, except it's very soft, but it's got that very texture of like pull and snap Versus if I let it crash out and just let it turn to butter so it opens pretty nice and now you're just, you know, scooping like a drier rosin. It's very, it would be very similar to that context. People also seem to have a problem with dry rosin in these markets.

19:44BubblemanThey, if they don't see the greasy rosin, they get upset. I'm like, dude, like I wouldn't kick the dry rosin out of bed for eating crackers. Like I'm a fan. Wow, we got 225 people watching us already in 20 minutes. That's pretty good.

19:59Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm super confused on the concept of fresh melt, to be honest. I don't understand the infatuation of the clear, the clearness. To me, and prove me wrong or whatever, then it doesn't matter because this is why it's a conversation. It doesn't smell as much. It doesn't have the same... All right. Thank you so much for joining us.

20:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineNumber one, the terpenes go through, they bloom, right? And then they fall back into itself. I don't necessarily, piatella, to me, it's whipped and it's trying to be rosin. It's like wanting to be like rosin so that dabbers can accept it and take it into their bowls. But to me, if it melts, Thank you for watching.

21:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then it's the most loud, flavorful thing in the world. Yeah, it's totally crashed. What's, I don't really understand why that's a bad, I don't get why crash.

21:33BubblemanJust try to sell it. Just try to sell all your crash.

21:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineNo, I'm curious. I don't know why either. Cause it's the way the psychology of people.

21:43BubblemanYeah.

21:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAs a connoisseur, I don't.

21:46BubblemanWell, the sense it makes is that you'll either sell it or you won't. Or when you do sell it, you'll get complaints versus not. So it's like this.

21:54Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineFair enough. But this is a conversation not about like sales. This is just simply a conversation on art and craft. Just in this moment.

22:02BubblemanThank you so much for having me.

22:22BubblemanWhen I pulled this out yesterday in my car to take a dab right before I drove home from the airport, my wife was like, she was like, that is too much. And she very rarely says it's too, I didn't even take the dab, to be honest. I felt bad. She was like, oh my God, that's like, what is that? It's like, she's like, it's like a skunk died or something.

22:41BubblemanI was like, no, it is very, this shit is rank. When I opened it up out of the freezer, it was in a sea vault. It stunk immediately, which for anyone that opens a lot of hash out of freezers, like kilos and kilos, the cold often keeps the smell from reaching your nose right away. There's a little bit of a timeline. This was no timeline, but I will say this is a very, very strong cultivar.

23:09BubblemanWhen we dry sift this cultivar, it comes out 48% THC, single screen,

23:16Bubbleman48% THC, which is, for anyone that makes dry sift on the regular, if you're using a single screen and you're doing not like a, you know, where you're trimming over a trim bin or whatever and getting that first bounce that Johnny B's obsessed with, but you're actually tumbling material, they'll tumble this material for 20, 30 minutes and then they'll pull it out, it'll be gold and it'll be 50% THC, which is absolutely astronomically high.

23:43BubblemanThat's getting into bubble numbers, that's getting into like, 50 to 60% pure heads, which generally doesn't happen in a single screen. So I was just really impressed with it. I'm definitely going to hit this little dab out of the banger here in the near future. And I'll give you the breakdown on what I think. But it is very nice and I do look forward to smoking some with you.

24:10Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSay this to the public then, like two people that are out there and don't make hash all the time, you know, and that aren't around every hash maker in the world. There's something magic, huh?

24:24BubblemanYou said, I missed what you said, two people that aren't around.

24:27Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineTo the people that are just the consumers that don't have a farm, that don't, that are not, you know, making hash all the time or know tons of people and see it all the time. I don't know, from my perspective, the fresh press and that window of 24 hours or 30 really is not enticing to me. I like the way that the cure happens with the hash.

24:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI feel like it's way more flavorful. And to me, like the flavor is a big part of the experience. You know, like you're saying that that smells immediately right now. Well, chances are that cures. It's going to smell even more. And so I'd like to do some terpene tests, you know, and to me, I like the crash. I like I like that buttered off. It's way easy to handle.

25:19Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou can still make a snake out of it and put it into a hash bowl or a doobie or you can It's crystallized sugar. It's actually, it makes me want to cry. It's so magical what happens to it when it cures. And then there is no fridge. And then it stays in a jar cured. One year later, I'm opening up and it's still incredible. So The stability and having like super high-end resin that you really just keep in your pocket or the car, it doesn't, it's not affected by the environment.

25:57Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's super enticing and really magical. And I think it's like pretty special to see the crystals go through that transformation. And then they, like the turps bloom and they resettle in the hash and then they stay there solid.

26:18Collin PalmerYeah, I mean, I think, you know, every type of resin gives you different textures. And I think the most the most interesting thing for me is over the years is watching the varietals and Thank you. Thank you.

26:50Collin PalmerSome kind of diamond aspect to it, you know, or you want to press it out and fraction it and then decarb those, the THCA. And there's all kinds of different ways to kind of take it, which is what makes it amazing, I think. And I think what happens a lot is we find ourselves Being partial to certain aspects of the process and I think what you're describing is like you've landed on this idea of the nucleation really speaking to you and you really love the flavor profile from that and I think it's all amazing you know it's much like we talk about the entourage effect or the ensemble effect it's like today the horns are just super bright you know so maybe I like fresh press just because it's just the varietals throwing it out in the way that You might not get from a cold cure.

27:39Collin PalmerYou know, like I pressed Blue Nerds. I didn't love the fresh press, but I loved the cold cure from it. It didn't, for whatever reason, I felt like it was not as sharp as it could be, right? And I was just like, eh, it's all right. Whatever. And then I let it cure a little bit. It did a small cure with it and there was that sharpness I was looking for.

28:03Collin PalmerIn reverse, Blueberry Banana did the reverse where it was like really sharp off the fresh breast but lost, it was really soft through the cold cure. Right. And there's no like I can't there's no like right or wrong here. It just is. And it's it's more like an instrument to me that is like made out of unique wood and has harmonics or just expression that you can't explain.

28:28Collin PalmerAnd you move to another guitar, another drum, and it just sounds different. And they're drums, right? They're guitars, but they have different attributes to it that I think can be, you know, highlighted as you're kind of, you know, well putting it is is There are certain aspects of process that speak to certain people and you know they're almost as I analyze it like they're different products like the fresh press is a different COA like for it like factually if you were to let that cure and then send that off to a lab and let the fresh press sit there by design like yeah they're resin but like they're two different products at the end of the day because one has more of certain chemicals than the other doesn't.

29:11Collin PalmerYou know, so I think there you get experiences out of that. And we often group it together. Much like music, you wouldn't call hip hop jazz. But yeah, it's music. You know, but somehow we find ourselves doing this a lot. So. I find it so interesting. I'm really into fresh press. I love the degradation of everything and how it kind of falls. I love it all, but I've noticed you were watching me live press a bunch of stuff the other day.

29:45Collin PalmerThe GG4 was incredible off the press. Blue Nerds, not so much. We think we pressed also... What was the other one? Superbooth. And Superbooth is like just love or hate it, it's a magician. You know, like whatever you want to say about it.

30:04BubblemanLike Honey Bananas Fresh Press. It's like you can say whatever, but yeah, it's much like Honey Bananas.

30:09Collin PalmerIt's a magician. It just works from like hash yield to rosin yield. You know, it's hash to rosin. It's kind of insane. I don't really see a lot of varietals that hit those type of numbers on return. Just there isn't a lot out there.

30:26Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI wonder if the rosin and the hash is the same. Like rosin comes out clear, right? Like the fresh press hash. Yeah. But then, but then it needs to butter and cure and whip to like really enhance the flavor. It's kind of the same for the hash.

30:43BubblemanFor you. Again, I get it. For you, it enhances the flavor. Not for everyone. Like these young guys in Colorado, dude, they're hitting the fresh press, bro. And I'm telling you, if you hit this fresh press, you'd have a hard time getting that resin to taste any better than it does off the fresh press. It's insane.

31:01Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI have full love and respect for weed on every single level. So guaranteed, I'm going to sit in Colorado with those homies and be freaking stoked. So yeah, this is not one's better than the other. I'm sharing... An experience after traveling the world like everyone else being involved in every, you know, event, all so many competitions, you know, like everyone here like that, you know, but you're seeing, let's just say the world's greatest growers, you know.

31:34Collin PalmerYou know, honestly, I've never seen Fresh Pressed at a contest. I was, I think I was the, I maybe, I entered it at the first melting of the heads and I never did it again because I felt like it just like whenever, not ever over when everyone said, but there's like, I want to do the cold cure. And it's, I'd like to see everyone come to the table with cold cure, like with the fresh press and not cold cure and see what happens.

31:57BubblemanThe nicest dabs I had in Colorado last trip were fresh press dabs from, well, it was actually the trip before from Jack, who's the good buddies with Stuart, who's Miner Melt. Miner Melt's fucking super quality jars these guys have. They're absolutely incredible growers. And every table they put their jars down at, Their jars get picked up the most. And the fresh press he doesn't even put down on the table because he knows it's like it'll be gone.

32:26BubblemanBut he definitely shared it on a multitude of times. I just couldn't believe. I mean, listen, I'm I don't have favorites. My favorite is always what's best. I don't care how you did it. As long as it's the best that's in the room at that moment, I'll find it and I'll smoke it. That's generally how my palate works. Because people are like, oh, what's your favorite cultivar?

32:46BubblemanI'm like, the one that was grown the most closely to perfection is my favorite cultivar. That's the one that's in the room. You know, in Vegas, it was probably that Calypso Haze or that Jack, because I actually got to taste that, I think, in a dab. But yeah, I fall in a weird way as I get older where I want to keep it open. I'm not like, oh, it has to be gas or haze or fruit or whatever.

33:13BubblemanIt's just if it's the best version of any one of those, I'll gravitate towards it.

33:18Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI agree with that 110%. I would say as far as the competition goes, it's legitimately hard to do a specific hash Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

33:57Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then even maybe look at all the winners and not to put them against each other, but just to look at each category in its perfection to see how like what it looks next to each other would be a lot of fun.

34:15BubblemanYeah, Mason Masonics got the thing I got going on with my new laptop and I can't figure out how to shut it off. The fucking camera like follows you and shit. It zooms in on you and it's fucking hilarious.

34:31Collin PalmerDr. Mark had that for a minute. He did. It's trippy. He's got his camera man.

34:37BubblemanAt one point, Mace was gone and it was just like going up and down on his chair.

34:45Collin PalmerTrying to find them.

34:47BubblemanAll right, Dr. Mark, I know you're fucking dying to talk about it. Jerry Garcia, Tiger, she sold. How many hours before that guitar sold for 11 point whatever million dollars was it being played on stage? Which first of all, let's set the premise for this. Generally large guitar purchases, people who buy like Eric Clapton's famous cream guitar or fucking David Gilmour's Pompeii, live at Pompeii guitar, whatever.

35:11BubblemanThese guitars get auctioned off. They raise massive amounts of money. I think Eric Clapton, Has raised like 40 or 50 million dollars alone with his annual guitar donation that he's done for like decades. So, Jerry, so a lot of these people buy these, they end up in museums, they end up in collections where people like you and I will never, ever see these guitars. And so this guitar sold, which they thought it was going to bring in a million to two million dollars.

35:40BubblemanAnd I think it was like nine point something. And then there's the auction money. So it was like eleven point five million, the total price of of the guitar.

35:49SpeakerRight, right, right.

35:50BubblemanAnd within the group that bought it said, we're buying these instruments to make sure that the right people continue to play them. And so they were like, well, we'll see. And fucking Derek Trucks, dude, playing that guitar, like I think less than 24 hours later on stage. I don't know if any of you guys saw that video and maybe it doesn't mean anything to you, but it touched my soul, dude.

36:13BubblemanLike it was amazing to hear. Yeah. Statesboro Blues through, it was just amazing.

36:22SpeakerYeah. Yeah. It's really cool. I mean, you know, I, I, yeah, I have an emotional connection to that guitar. It saw, Oh God, like about 200 shows with Jerry playing that guitar in the room. Right. So, Yeah, no better person than Derek Trucks, right, Colin, to get it? I mean, Derek Trucks at the Beacon Theater, no less, right?

36:48BubblemanI think he was just the first to play it.

36:51Collin PalmerYeah, he is. I was going to say, well, today we'll play it.

36:54SpeakerThe Tedeschi Trucks band is just like one of the best ones that's out there today. I mean, absolutely. There's such a rich songbook of the almonds and... Dude, Warren Haynes needs to play it. Derek and the Dominoes and just... So if you could even just see the Tedeschi Trucks band, go see them. But... Yeah, Derek is just incredible. I mean, he comes from jam band royalty, right?

37:21SpeakerBeing born into this music.

37:23BubblemanDude, 12 years old, getting on stage with the Allman Brothers and just fucking tearing it up.

37:28SpeakerYou know what I was doing at 12 years old? Yeah, right. When he when he sat in with Fish, you know, it was really interesting because Billy Strings sat in with Fish and Billy Strings got a big, you know, rig with a lot of pedals and everything. Derek has one pedal and it's just basically the volume switch so he could go back and forth. Between his two channels on his twin reverb, you know, so he doesn't need any pedals at all.

37:58SpeakerIt's all in his slide. Yeah, I mean, it's really, truly just amazing to watch. And yeah, Trey, definitely. I mean, there's not too many people who could upstage Trey, but, you know, Billy Strings and Derek would be them, right? I mean... And the great thing is, Marcus, it's like, I don't know, I mean, I don't think the Grateful Dead ever sat out to do what they ended up doing, which is becoming this cultural and music phenomenon that they ended up being.

38:31SpeakerI mean, you're like, okay, you know, Jimi Hendrix's guitar, yeah, that probably is going to fetch a lot of money. Certainly, like, I guess the one, the record setter was... David Gilmour's Black Strat from Dark Side of the Moon. Isn't that like, I don't know, 14 point something million? But yeah, to see Garcia's guitar. So just so you know, I mean, the guy that had it was Jim Israe, who had passed away.

39:03SpeakerHe was the owner of the... I almost said Baltimore Colts, the Indianapolis Colts, right? The NFL football team. So he's NFL football team owner kind of wealth, right? So you already know you're in a certain level of wealth. And so certainly I forget, like, did he get it for like one or two million or something like that? And like you said, Marcus, they didn't think this was going to go for much more than three or four million.

39:29SpeakerAnd so when it goes for... 11 million, I think that shows, you know, that there were people who are interested in, you know, getting this famous guitar and, you know, using it hopefully and not just putting it in your, you know, rich man cave and say, oh, I have Jerry Garcia's guitar, but the people who got it. Our family guitars. They also own Wolf, which was another one of Jerry's famous guitars.

40:01SpeakerWolf was the first guitar that he got from Doug Irwin. I think a couple guitars later is this guitar here, which is Tiger. There's also Rosebud. So I know there's a couple other Doug Irwin guitars. And when Jerry passed, he left all those guitars back to Doug Irwin, who ended up auctioning them, making some money out of it. But now it's those people who have those guitars that are now auctioning to others.

40:29SpeakerAnd like I said, family guitars, the people who ended up paying all that money and getting that guitar, their sole purpose is to make sure that people like Derek Trucks are able to play these instruments. Right. And so they yeah, it's good to see the instrument being used. Right.

40:48Collin PalmerYeah, there's like the Vampire Weekend played, I think, several guitars in the collection. They're on their last tour. You know, several bands that are even younger that have really no ties to the jam band scene even get access to these instruments. And it's not just guitars at this point. I think it's also drums and amps and... I saw that the Macintosh head also was there, which that, if I'm a guitarist, I'm like, yo, that's more important, even more so than the guitar.

41:20Collin PalmerBecause you can run your stuff through it and the tonality of that. But you're so right. And I think there's also... A guitar, family guitars also has a couple guitars from Pink Floyd, from what I understand as well.

41:36SpeakerI think so. Yeah. And I think, Marcus, you may be referring to Eric Clapton's Cream guitar that's got that crazy psychedelic imagery on it that Eric Clapton was playing when he was with Cream in like 68. That guitar, that family guitar owns that guitar too, so... Yeah. Yeah. Lots of famous guitar. Yeah. You know what? It's great. You know, you think about it, Colin, right? I mean, we talked about it before on Ash Church.

42:04SpeakerThat was just an incredible error for music, you know, like the 60s, 70s and maybe into the 80s. I mean, the album rock that came out during that period is truly lasting the test of time. And, you know, Bob, we're.

42:20BubblemanDrugs and perspective.

42:22SpeakerYeah. Well, that too, right, right? They were on to something, right?

42:27BubblemanIt was a different time.

42:29SpeakerI think what Bob Weir was quoted, I guess, before he passed, something about 300 years from now, will they still remember? I guess 300 years ago, think about what was music like, right? It was Baroque and string quartet music and Beethoven and shit like that, but 300 years from now, will they remember the Grateful Dead and will it still be... And now it's more about the,

43:28Collin PalmerMusic amplifying the artist in the reverse. You know, it's more about the persona. And yeah, the music is there, but it's less important to the listener.

43:39SpeakerWell, you think about how profound the lyrics were. I mean, just even going beyond Robert Hunter. I mean, just think about Dylan, you know. Johnny's in the basement mixing up the medicine. I'm on the pavement thinking about the government. I mean, like... Where is that lyric today in society, right? Is there someone writing those kinds of lyrics today? I don't think so, right? Like, it was so fucking profound what they did back then.

44:04SpeakerAnd the music was so good too. If you think about like all the soul that came from Stax and all the Motown and just the whole... All right. Thank you so much for joining us.

44:34BubblemanIt's like we grew up on the concentrate instead of the pre-wash, right? Like we got it on an album, on vinyl. And the way that sounded and the way that touched your soul when you listened to music that was from a needle to the vinyl, and that pulse of your record player, you don't get that on MP3. Right? That was Neil Young's whole thing. He was tripping out about they were taking away, they were making music an artifact of its former self.

45:09BubblemanThey were stripping out the soul of the sound, which was the feeling, by putting it into a compressed format. That's why Neil was obsessed. If you go onto his website, everything's flack. Everything's uncompressed. His entire music catalog is available to you. So you can listen to it. And it sounded the way he wanted it to fucking sound when he was engineering it in the sound room. Just pretty fucking cool.

45:36SpeakerYeah, it's like the the the sound of like. A Les Paul guitar. Like, like, I don't even know. Like, I get so tied up into it because I am a guitar player. But like, when I hear like Jimmy Page, like I was watching a video of Led Zeppelin doing the ocean. Led Zeppelin doing the ocean live Madison Square Garden 1973. Okay, Colin. This is like Jimmy Page was still playing this black Les Paul.

46:08SpeakerThis is before he transitioned over to the white. The white Les Paul, I think, came like in 70. But just the sound of a fucking Les Paul guitar. I'm just like, you can't, you can't make that up like digitally. Like it's just, it's analog at its best.

46:27BubblemanSo do you think it'll swing back the pendulum? Do you think, well, like doesn't everything, don't we always just do this like all the time for everything throughout entire human history? I don't know.

46:37Collin PalmerI'm going to flip the script on everybody real quick. I'm just going to say some things about music that may be challenging, but I'm going to say them because I think it's important for this conversation. I'm going to hold up an instrument that defined beat making. And I think that you can't get away from this because it's so important. This is the guitar. This is an MPC, right?

47:00Collin PalmerThis is super important. There's this thing called the JJOS. There's this dude called J Dilla. Super important to music because what he took was fragments of music and made new music out of it, right? So musical collage, right? And I think that when you look at playing guitars on a fret or, you know, fret based music, This takes the fret-based music and takes it into a new world.

47:29Collin PalmerIt takes it along with it, right? It takes traditional music, traditional ways of thinking, but then breaks that, like challenges it and says, hey, I'm going to not put the kick on the one. I'm going to put it a little after the two, and it's going to make you feel a little weird at first until I really lock you in, and you're going to really feel it.

47:50Collin PalmerAnd there were guys like, you know... Tribe Called Quest and groups like that that really started to take note of this stuff. And it really started to change the way that rhythm was being created. And then that re-influenced things like jazz, right? So drummers like me and people like Robert Glasper and Yosef Latif and others like that are... That are making music. They're incorporating jazz, rock, hip-hop, trip-hop, psychedelic music into this new form of music that I do think is really important To society, to pushing music and ideas forward and not staying into these constructs that are made and created by academia.

48:41Collin PalmerAnd I think that's super important. And these machines allow real musicians that really understand notation and theory and inversions and all the things you need to know. Take these ideas and make them really real, really fast. And there's something really amazing about that, that instant gratification of making music. Now, there's a lot of things you could say that come of that that are bad, but you can take note of many musicians out there today that have literally, MF Doom is a good example of it.

49:13Collin PalmerDude is just, was incredible. You know, Peanut Butter Wolf, which was the dude who signed him to his label. Also really incredible producer, but I love John Zorn. Masada.

49:49Collin PalmerIt's tough. It's a tough listen for some, you know?

49:52BubblemanI've seen him like probably over a dozen times live with all sorts of different like John McLaughlin.

49:58Collin PalmerIt's been months of it.

50:01BubblemanYeah, that thing's insane. I wonder if that's what that guy DJ Ari is using with his big keyboard when he walks around New York and just gets people on the mic. Have you seen this fucking guy?

50:09Collin PalmerYeah, so he's using a computer or a sampler that has attributes of the... MPC, I would imagine he's got way more sample time.

50:22BubblemanAnd the thing about just create a beat for the singer that he's just met eight seconds earlier. They'll be like, oh, you know, like he's like, oh, yeah, I got it. Just create some insane vibe. It's like, what the fuck? Who is this guy?

50:36Collin PalmerSo like the MPC has got like max one gig of of memory. So I would imagine he's got a bit more like a terabyte.

50:44SpeakerYeah, he's probably got a more modern setup than that.

50:47Collin PalmerYou know what I mean?

50:48SpeakerBecause it's easier to make things.

50:51Collin PalmerBut anyway, I just wanted to say that out loud because I think it's already at home. It's missed a lot that technology. With the right mind behind it can be extremely musical. And Jerry was really into synth. So was so was the whole Grateful Dead. Like they were really into the bootchilla, the West Coast.

51:13BubblemanI'm not against synth. I love all of that stuff. I just feel like and maybe this is delusional. In fact, it could be. I don't know. But I feel that. Earlier, Mark Rose is in the chat room. He said he lives in Nepal. He says music is a kind of puja, right? It's like a like a holy prayer. And so I've always thought that there's probably frequencies of music that are good for you and frequencies of music that aren't good for you.

51:43BubblemanAnd so that's the kind of thing I like. I don't know. I just feel like That old music.

51:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhen you were talking about like the analog album and LP, like it was at a certain frequency, which I don't know what that frequency is, but I'm pretty sure. The 440 frequency is a frequency that's been put in a lot of electronic music or whole platforms like Spotify and different things. They hold all the music at a certain frequency, which is decorative to the human spirit. Even though it's still coming through as the song that you remember and all that, there's an undertone to it.

52:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you. Thank you. Thank you.

52:56Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineTimeless motion, you know, and I think that's what's beautiful about folk music and acoustic music or the symphony. Like the symphony in a theater is a whole entire different experience of music and resonance. So again, it's like the hash. Like I like all of the music as well. You know, and we tend to keep the more gentler frequencies, you know, like good jazz. We tend to dig the cool jazz style, you know, around here a lot.

53:32Collin PalmerYeah.

53:33Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd swing. But that just for one of the genres. But go ahead.

53:37Collin PalmerYeah. How about the death metal?

53:40SpeakerOh, dude, it's funny, dude.

53:42Collin PalmerI actually appreciate so much. So I think of death metal the same way when I hear like a crazy drum and bass track. I'm like, it's really no different than one another. You just like may not hang out together. Y'all represent the same kind of emotion, though. You know what I mean? And I kind of love them both for different reasons, if that makes sense. There's really no, I don't know, like it's, but there is, like you said, there's terrible versions of everything.

54:09Collin PalmerLet's just be real. So, but that's okay. I mean, that's just part of it. One thing you were talking about with the frequency is we adapted to 440 hertz after 1940. From what, 554? So we used to be, We were 435 or 432 hertz before that, which is interesting because if you look at it tonality wise, like 432 is a lot easier to listen to music on.

54:36Collin PalmerSo and you can actually change your hertz if you would like. It's all in your own hand.

54:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's fascinating about bells as well, you know, in churches and cathedrals worldwide, like bells. And it's amazing, like somehow the best metal in the world went into bells and created certain frequencies inside a cathedral. And then there's like this whole storyline that they took the bells and melted it into ammunition for war and never really replaced them. There's a super interesting wormhole for like, you know, a person that wants to learn about bells and cathedrals in the late 1800s.

55:20Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd also, like, what it meant to a community to have, like, when a bell rings, like, there's the ding, and I'm being silly, but there's, like, the initial, and then there's, like, the whole overlay that comes around it. And when you're sitting in an unbelievably built, sacred building, and then you're in the middle of listening to organs and bells happening, like, I believe it transforms, it makes you healthy.

55:50Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd maybe that's like what religion is. Like maybe that's what spirituality, maybe that's the uplift.

55:56BubblemanThat was a little, why people love bass music.

56:04Collin PalmerIt's why people love bass music so much. It's because the expansion of that bass, like for real, if you, I used to sit in rooms with a friend of mine and work on bass sounds with him and And there's something actually like extremely spiritual about frequency ranges and moving through them and utilizing different waveforms to create them and then run them through resonant filters and then let that expand.

56:29Collin PalmerAnd depending on where you sit in rooms, you can feel the expansion go through you. You know, it's a little harder with mids and high range, you know, frequency ranges, but... That sub-frequency range can certainly touch your soul.

56:47Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe subsonic frequency is... Unknown. Yeah, it's hard to tap into, but that goes into plants as well. And I wonder how much transformation the indoor grow gets by grounding its soil. And we talked about this with Wade numerous times on the show. But the idea of grounding your soil, really, it totally plays into resonance, which we're talking about, and frequency. It allows the roots to feel the earth frequency, which is ultimately infinite health.

57:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, we can make indoor situations go crazy and even outperform nature. I understand that, you know, but I think there's probably a magic of health that comes from grounding your beds, which is as simple as just putting copper into your grounding part of your thing and putting copper into your soil. But it's like subsonic health.

57:57Collin PalmerYeah, I know. I remember Wade talking a lot about this and is it, is it copper or is it like what, What constitutes being able to grab to the vibrations? Wouldn't the plant being in native soil already kind of do this? Does that sound right?

58:13Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOnly if I'm speaking for indoors. Like if you're indoors, like there's no connection to the earth. Like it's just it's earth, but it's not connected to the earth. So there's not a living transmission. All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started. So we're going to go ahead and get started.

58:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you so much for joining us.

59:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd you can be done indoors and outdoors, you know, so bringing sacred geometry. I wonder, see, I would be wanting to make sacred geometry shapes for my indoor garden if I was just for fun, you know, bringing crystals in and stuff. It just makes sense to me.

59:38BubblemanJust for shits and giggles.

59:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, why not type thing? You know, what else are you going to do type of, you know what I mean? You know, it can't just be. You know, they had to bring some of the flow and some of the magic.

59:53BubblemanHere comes the flow and the magic in the form of one. Good friend, Etienne.

1:00:04BubblemanMonsieur Fontaine.

1:00:07BubblemanÇa va?

1:00:11BubblemanIn Austria.

1:00:12SpeakerHello, ça va? Can you hear me?

1:00:16BubblemanWe can hear you loud and clear. I don't recognize you without your joint, though. You look so different.

1:00:24SpeakerBuongiorno from Naples, Italy.

1:00:26BubblemanOh, there we go. There we go.

1:00:30SpeakerSo, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're from Vienna. We're with our friends over there in Naples in the background. Beautiful. It is, we just came back from being in Napoli, so, which I guess you do. Yeah, it was an incredible week in Vienna. Thank you, Caleb. Caleb did his best to try to stay awake during the middle of the night. Our VAC kind of kept a little night in vigil, and Caleb is one of our auxiliary members.

1:01:13SpeakerSo basically, we recorded a whole bunch of boring ass meetings that nobody ever wants to watch. But if you ever have the inability to sleep, you can watch any series of these and they'll put you right to bed. Yeah, yeah. Nothing like policy to really put you right in the mood to stay awake. Besides that, it's just great to see a whole bunch of people. From all around the world that are all working toward the good things.

1:01:44SpeakerYou've seen from my social media posts, from the different embassy events we had. We did have our site event. Of course, Monica and Forrest made it. And it's up on our VAC channel. It came out without a pitch. We announced the legality of CBD to the world. YCBD is now legal around the world. And we had Pavel Pata come out and speak. He is former member of the INCB and probably one of the former world experts on the world stage regarding cannabis.

1:02:23SpeakerSo not only that, we were also then able to get a hold of that circular letter that created this thing. So a friendly country was able to get us a copy. Can't share who because they'll be exposed. But regardless, we have a copy, which is basically, it doesn't explain why the IMCB decided to do this, what's called teleological reassessment of the treaty. However, that was an addendum.

1:03:00SpeakerSo apparently these circular letters, anything cannabis comes as an addendum. So it comes as, I mean, it's kind of like a staple part. And it basically breaks down the whole situation and how the UN decided to go back and look at CBD in context of why marijuana, THC, et cetera, all that. Why does it matter? Because the, that's Donna, that's my wife. Why does it matter for the basic tenant that CBD is not psychoactive?

1:03:40SpeakerSo the UN decided, well, since it's not psychoactive, it doesn't need to be part of the treaty because previously they decided, well, it's an extract, right? It comes from the plant. Any extract of the plant by the treaty law, again, everybody, I'm just coming from the treaty interpretation, very boring. But just from that interpretation, that's what it was looking at originally. And it decided since it was an extract, it was bad and naughty, should be illegal.

1:04:07SpeakerWell, this recent assessment said that it's not psychoactive. And therefore, not only is it not psychoactive, we're going to let all you countries decide on the THC level. So you can grow it. For CBD and whatever THC level it is, that's up to you. So they're not saying 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.5, 0.9. They're not saying 0.3 or 3%. They're saying whatever is CBD, as far as the UN is concerned, medical CBD is legal around the world and it can be extracted from the cannabis plant No matter what the THC level is, it is up to the country to decide.

1:04:54SpeakerSo that's what we announced on top of, of course, we honored the beautiful Wade Laughter. I'd like to thank our wonderful member who got us the video for the closeout because I used, you know, compassion as a verb. And oddly enough, you know who was in the room? Jazz Pharmaceutical. You know who left with eyes fucking pouring?

1:05:22BubblemanJazz Pharmaceutical.

1:05:23SpeakerAnd that was due to Forest Lee. I did an amazing presentation that literally just, you know, he showed the pictures of the butterfly children. You know what I'm saying? And people were just like, you know, it's one thing to hear about these sort of things. It was one thing for these Jazz Pharmaceutical guys to see. I mean, to hear about these things, but there were the kids.

1:05:45SpeakerThere was the picture. There's the wounds. There's the wounds healing. You know what I'm saying? It was irrefutable facts, and they did not know how to handle it, and it was beautiful to witness. And then... They hear Monica. She got to speak. She gave a wonderful speech. And then for his presentation, I highly recommend going to our YouTube and taking a look at it. It was quite amazing.

1:06:17SpeakerAnd yes, people said it was one of the most moving side events ever at the UN, which really kind of hit me in the in the skulls, but in the hearts. But it was, again, honoring our friend. Right. Wade was a friend to all of us here. And he was a special friend to us at the Veterans Action Council because he was with us for four years.

1:06:43SpeakerSo we elevated him, celebrated him. Now he's enshrined forever in the halls of the UN. So for the deeds he's done and That felt good. Kevin Sabet still at his shenanigans, you know, and a lot of countries are still vibing on his things. So, you know, it was a lot of continuing communications. A lot of people from a lot of countries had a hard time getting here because...

1:07:20SpeakerApparently some countries started a war in Iran and a lot of people couldn't come through the Middle East apparently. So it was not as well attended. A lot of diplomatic missions were smaller than they usually were. However, there's a lot of progress that's being made across the board. And we feel that the Momentum that we've been building toward 2030 to have cannabis removed from those dangerous dog category for adult use is doable.

1:07:57SpeakerSo, you know, we're going to continue on that path. Now we're just deal with the assessment. Of course, we had, if you had any idea of what we had to do to pull off that side event, it was a series of miracles because for some reason, the room they decided to put us in for first off, they made it last. Nobody's there on a Friday. Oddly enough, our room was packed.

1:08:20SpeakerEvery seat was filled, which wasn't surprising for all of us. And then just the reaction from everybody was just very humbling. And to see more than anything, Monica happy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:09:02SpeakerAll right. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:09:20SpeakerIt turned out to be a fake. It was false. It was a fake article. There was nothing to it. You know, what did happen is there was, and we actually had our friend Farid and NCOD had a event outside along with our friends from Brazil. And they were outside doing an event, but nobody was smoking. We took a huge picture of the entire group of us from the UN, which I'll pull up here in a second.

1:09:49Speakeruh which when we took this picture we all got together and said hey you know we saw this situation that kind of transpired can anybody tell us if they were involved you know in this situation and uh yeah no nobody nobody has any idea where uh that rumor came from we all know where we were and what we were doing so the last thing we would do Would be to smoke pot at the UN out front.

1:10:22SpeakerAnd you have to understand people, there's guys with machine guns out there. Okay, so you can't just do willy nilly. And I'm talking multiple people with machine guns. So there's no way that, you know, there's no situation. So, you know, this is a group picture of a lot of us from around all around the world. We're all working on That is our cannabis embassy flag, which is all the colors of cannabis.

1:10:53SpeakerAnd orange is the color of prohibition internationally. And so there's cannabis in there.

1:11:00BubblemanAre you making the international sign of smoking a doobie yet? Yeah.

1:11:05SpeakerYes, I am. I did that in all the pictures as a as an ambassador to the cannabis embassy. I feel it is my duty to have a reflection that mocks systems worldwide.

1:11:18BubblemanAnd so, yes, I got started.

1:11:20SpeakerYeah, exactly. Yes. With that being said, oh, my friend Michael Prowitz, who was also part of our event, as well as our ambassador to the UN for decades. Michael has been doing the work at the United Nations since 1997. He's been since the 2000s in Vienna working on policy, and he has helped educate me and bring me up to speed And had us on the floor. So, Michael, do you want to give people an update on what your educated assessment is on the 69th C&D?

1:12:06SpeakerI'll back off. Love you, buddy. Good to see you. Good to see you, man. Welcome back. Welcome, Michael. Thanks, guys. I got so many thoughts in my head. I'm not sure how to how to breach one. We haven't really even had a VAC meeting yet to even kind of debrief on what we experienced. The whole system is evolving. This is one of these things that you can't see.

1:12:32SpeakerIf you show up at the meetings, you really can't see this. You have to go there for several meetings. You have to meet lots of people, literally hundreds of people from all these different countries around the world. Do you get an idea of what you're talking about at the commission? The commission enacts the day-to-day work of the drug control program, which is like 186 countries in the drug control program.

1:12:59SpeakerThey all signed the drug control treaty. And on a day-to-day basis, the commission takes on those responsibilities as a delegation. There are 53 countries. So you're only dealing with 53. That's a smaller, more manageable group, but it's still 53 countries. We're all there, you know, internal workings and to work with those countries, you generally have to work in those countries to work with those countries. And our cannabis movement does.

1:13:27SpeakerOur cannabis movement has people in almost every country of the commission. I don't I've never met any We've got a lot of activists from several of the countries that we've got in the commission, like Indonesia, Russia, Singapore. But a lot of them we have. We've got activists in Japan. We've got activists in a lot of the former Eastern Bloc. We've got activists in a lot of the other Asian countries.

1:13:56SpeakerI think Ben Dronkers is still hanging out in Malaysia, if I'm not mistaken, for example. But anyway, over time, The commission has evolved from basically being a strong arm of drug prohibition to an apologist for drug prohibition to now somewhat of a I hesitate to say reformist, but they're starting to look at the treaties and they're scratching their head and they're saying, is this really working? Are we chasing our tail here?

1:14:34SpeakerIs it just not working? And when I say working, I'm talking about stuff that we would actually support, our cannabis movement would support, protecting the health and well-being of people, keeping dangerous new chemicals that are created in the lab from getting out into the streets before we even understand what they are. Making sure that dangerous drugs like fentanyl and analogs of fentanyl aren't sold on the street after being created for medicine.

1:15:00SpeakerThese are things that I think we all roll up our sleeves and are willing to work on, preventing abuse, protecting children. But unfortunately, we haven't been able to work together because these have been wedge issues that have been used for political purposes. And now for the very first time as we're coming into this sort of 2030 stretch, we're starting to see the treaty be questioned. Is it really fit to purpose?

1:15:26SpeakerAre we chasing our tail? They add new drugs into control every year and the cartels and criminal organizations just come up with a whole new You know, a Rolodex of new substances, new psychoactive substances that they roll out the next year. And then they come after those and they came up with more. And it's almost like an arms race, you know, that that just never seems to end.

1:15:51SpeakerAnd we're hoping Veterans Action Council is hoping that this conversation that's bubbling up now will lead to a real reassessment of the treaty itself in 2030 that we hope to take advantage of. Now, don't get me wrong. They're not reassessing this again to be, you know, cannabis activists. They're reassessing this to try to control drugs. But at the same time, Part of the reason why they can't control drugs is because they're still stuck in the 20th century or the 19th century going after plants and people that grow plants.

1:16:23SpeakerCoca, cannabis, poppy plants are of no concern to member states and they should be of no concern to the drug control regimen. If you make a cocaine or if you make a fentanyl or if you make a strange analog of cannabis that seems to be very dangerous, that becomes the interest of the drug control program. But the plants need to be taken off the table. And we're hoping, the Veterans Action Council, that as we get closer to 2030, there'll be an opening for us to make that case.

1:16:52SpeakerAnd sort of establish that we hope maybe as a bargaining chip, even, you know, we'll deliver the human race to help you with your drug control program and roll up our sleeves on common goals of the human race. If you just stop shooting at us over these plants and take the plants off the table, kind of negotiation like that. So that's what we're looking at. And our little side event, we've had a lot of side events over the years, but we've never had anybody come up to us Thank you for joining us.

1:17:35SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:17:57SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:18:25SpeakerAnd the second thing is, wasn't a dry eye in the house. I mean, Forrest, God bless him, man. He showed these folks what it means to deliver cannabis to people who need it. He showed these folks what it means to need it. And it was heart ripping. It just ripped your heart right out. And I really, really, really appreciate everybody that came out and participated. Monica did a great job.

1:18:52SpeakerForrest did a great job. Nate and ATN, everybody did a great job. Thanks, Caleb, for holding down the fort at home in the middle of the night and keeping the internet connected for us. It was really hard this year to do that because of the fast nature of the CND. I swear it felt like we were there for 45 minutes. What about you, ATN?

1:19:25BubblemanThat sounds incredible. I wish I could have witnessed Forrest ripping everyone's hearts out. He's good at that. You know, he just shares the truth in a, in a, just a very, just this kind, soft voice, you know, but also someone that lived it, you know, he's definitely, those stories to me were like You know, the highest level of like, whoa, we need to like make this happen sooner than later kind of thing because this is something different than just wanting to get iry.

1:20:01BubblemanIt's very different.

1:20:04BubblemanGood on you guys for doing the work.

1:20:08Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou all are spectacular ambassadors for us and we just appreciate you being there and also feel comforted to know that we have people that are representing our community that are well established in it and truly understand it rather than someone who liked the idea of it and found a platform and ran with it. It's nice to see that we're represented by people that are of the culture and really know the medicine and it is.

1:20:35Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's not just recreational and You know, it's in some cases life or death, you know. So yeah, you guys are the best. We super appreciate you. Look at all this nice medicine. Thank you, Michael. Did you guys go to THCBD Glass Studio in Vienna while you were there? It's one of the few spots that's kind of a cannabis hub in Vienna.

1:20:57SpeakerWe, you know, one of the challenges is to do anything other than go to the UN because the, you know, first of all, European cities are known for shutting down, you know, early, they don't stay late on Friday nights or whatever, like maybe they do in the States. Everything shut down 5 p.m. and by 5 p.m. we're still, you know, there's three things going on. You got side events, you got plenaries, main events, and discussions in the hallway.

1:21:24SpeakerBut there's one more topic that I think it'd be worth, you know, mentioning here. As reform, you know, in the big reform tent, the drug policy reform movement instead of the cannabis drug policy reform movement, the larger drug policy reform movement, Has actually had now two things that have happened that really lend themselves well to what I was talking about before as far as a strategy of trying to change the treaty.

1:21:51SpeakerAnd that is we in our work in 2020, we managed to change the treaty. We managed to remove cannabis from Schedule 4 of the Drug Control Treaty. But there was a larger ask in 2020 that the World Health Organization declined to get involved in. And that was rewriting the treaty. They made it very clear case that the drug control treaty doesn't give them the responsibility of rewriting the treaty, only recommending scheduling changes within the treaty.

1:22:20SpeakerAnd we accepted that. But I have to say, Transnational Institute and some of the larger organizations in that bigger drug policy reform movement did not accept that. They were not happy with that. And they really felt that the World Health Organization should have made a stand and taken on the commission and actually work to remove cannabis from schedule one of the treaty. Well, now COCA fast forward.

1:22:41SpeakerNow COCA just finished its review. And the same thing virtually happened where COCA was even easier to remove from the treaty. It was even less of a rewrite to remove cannabis from from that control. And the World Health Organization refused to do it. And the commission now will gavel through the results of that COCA review. What this does, though, is it puts us in line as a cannabis movement.

1:23:08SpeakerIt puts us in line with the broader drug policy reform movement in our ask to work on the treaty review and to work on treaty reform. Because now we've got not just cannabis, but we have cannabis and COCA basically both in the same boat. And you've got very large organizations, very well-funded organizations, a lot of George Soros money and stuff like that, that actually are going to be willing to roll up their sleeves and work on this with us.

1:23:36SpeakerWe're still trying to feel out. We had a really nice meeting actually with the leadership of Transnational Institute while we were in Vienna and talked about some strategy. But this is just the beginning and we're going to have to figure out how to parlay Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:24:14SpeakerPut cannabis and coca out front and see if we can't protect the rights of individuals to grow and share and make basic products, traditional medicine and stuff out of coca and cannabis.

1:24:33BubblemanWell, one can only pray. It's crazy how that drug treaty from however many years ago is just what like every country is just. You know, following to the T, it's just like, holy shit, that was not an accident.

1:24:51SpeakerYou know, that's why we're there. Look at this. This is a strange circumstance that really, I think, highlights your point, Marcus. There's a possibility, given the reform movements sort of foot forward in the United States, the bills that have been written, the rescheduling efforts. If you follow that and follow to its natural conclusion, in other words, if we do what we're doing now, we don't change anything.

1:25:14SpeakerThe strategy in the United States, there is a possibility that we would actually remove from control completely cannabis inside the U.S. and that the U.S. would still be a signatory of the treaty and it would still go to Vienna and it would still pressure other countries to eradicate cannabis. That we might have completely legal cannabis in the United States and still have, you know, quote unquote, boots on the ground in other countries killing people over cannabis.

1:25:40SpeakerSo yeah, this is the treaty needs to be addressed. There's no way we can avoid it. Even if it is an antique older than me, 1961.

1:25:53Bubbleman1961. Shout out all you 73s in the audience today. 73s representing as the full melt hash. What can we say? It's that golden bag.

1:26:08BubblemanOh man, I'm telling you, I got super, super, super stoned off that full melt bubble. That is strong. Maybe not the best morning hash, but I have to get some sativa going on here. Got a little lighter, lighter headed.

1:26:26SpeakerHello Kelly. Hi, good morning everybody. So nice to see everybody and hear this. It's really filling my heart more than even my head. And what I'm seeing here is it's like a basket of support. You know, you're supporting the patients and speaking up for the patients while the cannabis plant itself also needs to have support and has its own story. And then now it's the relationship that the cannabis plant has to society and then its social norms.

1:27:04SpeakerSo It really is amazing how many different topics are being woven for this outcome. And I believe that, you know, I woke up this morning feeling like, you know, the reason why governments are so powerful is because they're organized, you know, they organize with each other. And when I see us as a human species outside of that government or laws or regulations, it's really nice to see the humans and the people organizing.

1:27:45SpeakerAnd when we organize with nature and when we're organizing with a plant, with that also, it feels like that's the uprising that we need as a human species. So to really hear that you guys are covering, All of these different topics. I just think that it's super important. And I really appreciate you guys for standing up for all different facets of medicine, nature, society, humanity, And being organized and doing so.

1:28:20SpeakerIt's truly beautiful. So thank you guys.

1:28:22BubblemanYou know, while you were saying all of that, I was like, wow, that's so nice. And then I realized, oh, wait a minute. She's not saying that about me. She's saying that about ATN. Michael, those are the two dudes who are doing everything she just said. Truer words have never been spoken. God bless you guys. You guys are fucking doing good work. Thank you.

1:28:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineNot me, though. Ultimately, I think she was weaving all of all of you in.

1:28:45BubblemanShe was.

1:28:46Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut as I was listening, I was like, this is Michael and Mattia, you know, without everyone doing the good work.

1:28:52SpeakerI was really thinking of all of the tears in the room at what people thought that they were coming to a formal meeting. They dressed that morning. They brushed their teeth. They had these ideas of what they were going to attend. And I love it that our crew coming with heart and soul done fucked them up and and made them go deeper than they really ever wanted to be, which is the true message of cannabis, which is the true message of humanity.

1:29:22SpeakerAnd it just really it fills my heart today. So thank you guys. And knowing that that happened. Well, it was chaos in the sense of we all kind of, well, they went out and partied. One of our crew ended up getting locked out of our place, and we ended up locking out our key to our new spot because we had to leave the morning of, so we had to move our spot into this place to get all of our luggage.

1:29:49SpeakerAnd we locked the keys in the lockbox, and the lockbox wouldn't open, and it was just You know, you ever, yeah, you have those hilarity and stews. Well, it was all the way up to, okay, so then we got all the way to the event and the camera system in that particular room, no worky, no worky. So we literally had to zoom it on the fly Fortunately, the people at the, sorry, Caleb, we stole the Zoom from Caleb.

1:30:17SpeakerWe're like, sorry, we have to use this. And then she patched us into the system and then we were able to run it through. But unfortunately we muted Out the gate. So we're working on getting this down back. But if we were able to finally get that going, but literally all the way up to getting, you know, Forrest's computer hooked up and everything else to literally on in between all that chaos that was going on that morning, Marcus, your boy sent the videos at that time.

1:30:54SpeakerSo the only video of the four that he sent me that it could upload to my computer that would stick was the compassion as a verb. So it was like, holy fucking hell. It was kind of like the winds of Wade where, you know, you're giving us, you know, you know, credit. But, you know, I got to give major credit to, you know, Monica. This is the first time she's been out of the house to come out.

1:31:16SpeakerAnd it was not easy to, you know. After this, not only that, but, you know, travel overseas and then speak about, you know, your partner who passed away. And she said this is the way she wanted to honor him, you know, back for his funeral. So it was nice to give her this closure, as well as to see her rise to the occasion and speak and speak her truth.

1:31:47SpeakerAnd then Forrest, you know, And then, you know, it's another thing to have, you know, former member of the INCB, et cetera, you know, in your event. Because I actually said, I said, hmm, five people, cops, probably at our event, because it's Friday, everybody's gone. So, you know, I was expecting nobody there. And to see the room that was packed was... I was happy to be wrong, you know what I'm saying?

1:32:17SpeakerBut we had to figure out a Zoom situation, figure out the camera situation, then figure out the sound, all while running it. It kind of felt like flying the airplane, you know, while building it situation, you know. We do some of that in the activism world, so it definitely felt like that, so.

1:32:40SpeakerBut it was really, it's all the way up to everything kind of all fell in place. It was kind of like a little hand of Wade, all every step of the way saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to be fucked up. It's going to be its own situation, but it's going to be beautiful in the end. And you know what? It totally fucking was. I was, you know, I was anxious.

1:33:03SpeakerYou know, we planned this, you know, Michael and I planned this the week before. After Wade died, we were like, wow, how do we honor somebody who really touched, you know, us, you know, especially, and how do we do that? And, you know, we, we, if we had to, it took six months to get a cold of maps for them to give us the approval to actually do this side event, you know, at the UN.

1:33:30SpeakerAnd they didn't give us the approval until after we submitted our, you know, ladies and gentlemen, you know, just all the struggles along the way. But we were able to, yeah, again, every obstacle that came along the way, the hand of Wade came along and was like, don't worry, it'll be all right. And it was in the end. And to see the smile on her face, Monica's face, you know, is the, we all needed that.

1:34:06SpeakerEverybody can hashtag after watching her suffer for years with Wade's passing. And she's had to deal with that and to really rise above it and to see, you know, I don't know what it feels like. I helped do it. It was nice. I don't ever want to know that feeling, but we all collapsed with a big hug afterwards and cried together. It was beautiful, that sense, because we felt it.

1:34:41SpeakerWe all felt Wade's presence. We all felt the energy.

1:34:47SpeakerYeah, I don't really know what to say except that it was special. It was humbling to be a part of. And I didn't realize how heavy the weight was until it was lifted. And, uh, But I know he's looking down smiling and happy. Monica's back home in Nevada County and happy and had a great and amazing experience as did Forrest because he's a dad taking care of his son.

1:35:14SpeakerHe didn't get to get away. He said it took him, you know, 18 years to go have dinner with his wife. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, life's hard. So it was nice to for Puffco to be able to help us give this experience to them. So that the world could understand the beauty of what Harlequin and the medicine has done for people. And yeah, it'll be interesting to see what those jazz pharmaceuticals and them do now that they've had their heart touched.

1:35:44SpeakerYou know, it's kind of like watching the Grinch, you know, and his heart grew 10,000, you know. So we'll see what actually transpires, but I'm more interested to see as well what will happen with CBD now. Yeah, it'll be interesting. Yeah, I'll tell you, on the heart grew, you know, five sides of the side. I participated, my first commission meeting was back in 2008. And 2008 was a milestone because there was a resolution that we did as non-governmental organizations that really set a new standard and created Thank you so much for joining us.

1:36:38SpeakerYou know, it gets less informal every year that the UN does something. So now we send our questions in advance and they try to consolidate the questions and they get really solid answers from their agencies, which is actually cool because this isn't an off the cuff answer you get from these folks. This is a well thought through answer that you can actually do something with. But the point that I'm making is that after 2008 for a short while, we had side events at this commission that were really like Inclusive, you know, it had people from, you know, sort of the radical anti-cannabis, people from the radically pro-cannabis.

1:37:16SpeakerYou had, you know, people all in between with public health and whatever, and you had member states. And by the way, if you're a country and you're a member of the commission, you're a member state. So this is actual red badges, countries, you know, leadership of various governments that have the red badges. And we had red badges in the room and we had...

1:37:37SpeakerAnd we had, you know, this sort of mix that you just don't see nowadays. Back in 2008, like I said, you get a room full of different voices and you'd have all the different groups sort of in the room having this conversation. And over the years, since 2008, it's become so siloed, terribly siloed, you know, where the member state governments would have a side of it and all member state people would be there.

1:37:59SpeakerAnd, you know, Kevin Sabat or whatever with Project, you know, Should Have Been Smarter About Cannabis. Has a side event. It's all anti, you know, Russia has the front seat, you know, and, you know, Japan's taking notes and it's all drug prohibitionists, you know, and you go to our side events, which are talking about, you know, the right to access and the rights of indigenous peoples and protecting the environment.

1:38:23SpeakerNow that's kind of a new line of activism is, you know, seeing if we can protect the environment from drug control, essentially, and from drug manufacturing. So yeah, it's really tough to get an audience that actually listens to each other. And we had an audience that had everything. We had red badges, we had pro, we had against. And I think it really felt wholesome. It felt like a good actual conversation.

1:38:52SpeakerSo I just wanted to share that with y'all.

1:38:54BubblemanYou could tell who was pro and against based on like the color of their badge?

1:38:58SpeakerNo, no, you have to. That's why I said you have to really meet hundreds of people. Remember I said that at the beginning to really get a feel for what you're looking at when you walk through the halls. We actually had a representative of one of the big funders come to one of the events one time and said, oh, there's just people at coffee clutches talking. You know, those people talking at the coffee clutches, some of them are government people, some of them are pro-cannabis people, and we're having conversations that we couldn't have in 300 years back home.

1:39:25SpeakerSo yeah, that's what it's all about, is knowing who you're talking to, knowing the audience. And as ATN said, we had the leadership of the Jazz Pharmaceuticals, who right now owns the Dr. Guy's products, the Sativex and Epidiolex products, the LEED cannabis FDA-approved products, the Or I guess initial, maybe that's a better word, initial FDA approved cannabis products. They are, I think, aligning themselves too much with anti-cannabis.

1:39:58SpeakerI think they've always, even back in Dr. Guy's day, they saw that as sort of a necessity. You know, if we align ourselves with pro-cannabis, it'll make us vulnerable to the anti-cannabis forces in the government. And that would adversely affect our scientific work and our FDA approval. That may have been true. I don't think it's true anymore. And I think that their market is the cannabis space.

1:40:20SpeakerYou know, we talked to patients while we were over there in Vienna and 201, every single one said the same thing. I'd love to see Sativex, Epidiolex available, whatever, anything that we can get that adds to The patient's ability to be able to treat their medical conditions with cannabis. Of course, we want that. So it's not an exclusive. It's not one or the other. We need to work together to make sure that cannabis, even pharmaceutical, even FDA approved cannabis is made available to folks.

1:40:55SpeakerAnd on top of that, just to give you an understanding of the amount of miles, from last Friday when we picked up our badges all the way until Friday, we walked 48 miles.

1:41:09Bubbleman48 miles. That's a healthy amount.

1:41:12Collin PalmerThat's a lot of walking. It's a very big place. It's a very big place. Bloody marathon, isn't it? How European of you.

1:41:20SpeakerI like it. Walk. Oh, it's impossible. Most anything, it's it's it's the public transportation is amazing. The spot we're in, you know, we're right from a tram right by the train and the train takes you right to the Vic, which is the Vienna International Center, which is the UN. So the the entire setup of Vienna is. Amazing. And yeah, it's impossible not to benefit from it. But of course, it's also a beautiful city to walk around.

1:41:52SpeakerBut at the same time, the UN is a complex and there are multiple buildings and lunches on the other side of the complex compared to where smoking is and where we go up in the rafters or the

1:42:09SpeakerMedia, et cetera, are then going to the plenaries, walking through the plenaries, going to the different events. Yeah, you would do an average of, yeah, five to eight miles a day. They could use a little shuttle train inside the UN, I think, from one side to the other.

1:42:27Collin PalmerSo I have a question for you guys, for the Veterans Action Council. So when you're in these, like, this is like such a complex thing that you guys are doing. You know, you have, it's almost like everyone's walking on glass together in the room where they don't want to upset each other in weird ways. But, um, You know, I guess my, you know, you have Kevin Sabet.

1:42:51Collin PalmerI don't even, you know, I'm going to do a bit more deep dive on who his, what his ism is. I don't really know much about him. But when you're in these rooms, are, is jazz pharmaceutical speaking about policy and how to Bridge the gap between science and patient. Because I'm super curious about what is someone's stance like that in a room with someone like yourself who is obviously there pushing a narrative of patient access.

1:43:28Collin PalmerSo what does that look like when you guys are there? What's being said on their side?

1:43:35SpeakerThis is a question that the answer would have changed fundamentally from last year to this year. So I'm glad you asked that question. Jazz Pharmaceuticals has been participating in side events with a group called CADFI, Community Anti-Drug for Youth. CADFI is part of CADCA, which is Community Anti-Drugs Coalitions of America. Which actually has coalitions all around the world, claims 1700 something members and gets money from our high intensity drug trafficking area grant system in the United States since the Clintons.

1:44:07SpeakerThis is the big guys. And it's really fascinating because last year, and I believe even the year before, Jazz Pharmaceuticals came as an invitation of CADFE and actually participated as Jazz Pharmaceuticals. They gave information from their company perspective. This year, they actually made a point that they sent their communications director and she was there on her own under her own, you know, Power to to speak from from, you know, from her perspective as part of CAD fees group, which is called Drug Policy Futures.

1:44:46SpeakerAnd that's a very interesting thing that the jazz pharma itself is no longer sort of taking that position and backing off. Even a little bit, from my perspective, it seems like they're backing off a little bit. I love that they give their leadership the ability to do what they want. That actually, that pleases me, even if they're saying something I don't want to hear. But the

1:45:13SpeakerThat it's getting more complicated now in my head trying to answer this because when you start looking at CADFE, it gets more complicated. When you look at Jazz Pharma, though, they're trying to walk that line. They've got a product. It's a cannabis product. And they're trying to tell folks that, hey, you know, cannabis is great, but if you don't Thank you for joining us.

1:45:49SpeakerDouble blind placebo-based gold standard studies. So therefore, just throw all that out. Forrest actually spoke directly to that in his presentation, noting the fact that it was literally the parents of these children with Dravet syndrome that brought in the scientific study that actually allowed for Epidiolex to be FDA approved in a fast track method in the United States. They're putting the cart before the horse, quite literally.

1:46:16SpeakerAnd that's a problem for us. Not a very big problem. I got to say another little note since it comes up in my mind as I'm saying this. And we all love David Watson, Sam the Skunk Man. And I went last year when we had met with Jazz. Jazz had said something in their event that really bothered me. They said that they made they essentially made it sound like they just created this yesterday, you know, in a laboratory and that it's all safe and it's all, you know, Thank you for joining us.

1:47:04SpeakerKeith Brown, M.D. : Goes back to Dr. Guy. Dr. Guy was a doctor that had a delivery system. He had a transmucosal delivery system that he tried with morphine, actually, to sell, and it didn't sell. He tried it with cannabis. It failed. And then he tried it again using some of the guidance from Patients Out of Time, actually, and Marilyn Mathery, Albern. The book, Marijuana Medical Practice.

1:47:27SpeakerAnd looking at that and understanding cannabis, he found his way to these guys in Horta Farm in the Netherlands, the company that David helped run with Rob Clark and others, David Pate. What they did, and I know this for a fact, I mean, I sat down before GW ever came up with this idea when he was still trying to sell a morphine product, I was sitting down with David Watson and David Watson was telling me his theories, his ideas, and his idea was the FDA Fixates on a single molecule.

1:48:02SpeakerThey can't get their brain around a plant material that has all kinds of molecules having some sort of medicinal value. What if we could, A, get somewhere where we could grow cannabis? That's why they went to the Netherlands, so they could get a license and have greenhouses for cannabis. And then once we have cannabis that we can grow, let's play with it. But botanically, as good botanists, let's do this Mendelian genetics and we'll cross the plants until we come up with plants that mostly express themselves as either CBD or THC.

1:48:31SpeakerHe was very proud of that. He said if you take an extract of his plants, you get an extract of THC that's so pure that the synthetic THC isn't as pure. It's got bigger sidebars on the graph than the THC actually from his plant material. It expresses itself that cleanly as one cannabinoid, as one molecule. And his idea all along was to get around the FDA's sort of protection against plants by doing this.

1:48:56SpeakerAnd it was it was fantastic. It worked exactly the way that he had designed it. So when this, you know, Jazz Pharma basically tried to rewrite history in real time, I went to David and this was right. This is the year that we did our cannabis biopiracy side of it. We were very, you know, current talking about these treaties in Geneva that govern The right to genetics ownership and how these contracts between corporate interests and indigenous peoples and stuff work with regard to plant based substances that would then be made into pharmaceuticals.

1:49:32SpeakerThis is all very, very well known. And the history, you know, it's actually a Nagoya Protocol violation. What they did, they broke the law by saying that this was created in a laboratory and deleting the story of how people and botanists created this plant over time and used this sort of traditional growing knowledge to do that. It wasn't, to my mind, a clear violation of the law.

1:49:56SpeakerSo I brought it to David, and you'll love this. David said, are they having fun? And I said, well, they seem to actually really be enjoying themselves now that you mentioned it. They're having a nice side event. We had a nice lunch. You know, they're very proud of their product. And that was it. He was happy. They were happy. He was happy. And I still am processing his answer.

1:50:17SpeakerIt was the shortest answer I could have ever imagined. And to this day, I am actually still processing that answer. But he was happy with them. If they're happy with it, he's happy. But yeah, we know. We know.

1:50:29Collin PalmerSo, you know, the question I have, so it sounds like jazz is, you know, obviously still fighting for certain things that are in their best interest of, let's just call it shareholders. You know, on the, on the, on the, for the sake of science and just asking, you know, Dr. Mark here, is the science any different than Any tincture or any pill that you would buy anywhere else in your personal and or professional opinion?

1:51:03SpeakerNo. In fact, full spectrum CBD will be more effective than Epidiolex. The other thing that you should know is that Jazz Pharmaceutical has discontinued any research program looking at cannabinoids. So they're not doing cannabinoid research anymore. What they're trying to do is make back their investment on acquiring Epidiolex. And yeah, Epidiolex's active ingredient is CBD. CBD is a public composition. And just to correct you, Mike, it wasn't Guy...

1:51:42SpeakerWho figured this thing out for epilepsy. It was Elisaldo Carlini, 50 years ago, back in Brazil, the people who worked with Mishulam and published their work in the early 80s. GW took advantage of that because it was just kind of left out there that, yeah, they saw complete... Blocking of mostly, these were difficult to treat epilepsy cases that weren't responding well to anti-seizure medications. And certainly, like when they started looking at CBD back in the day, I mean, that was so in the late 70s.

1:52:30SpeakerI think if you look at his paper, it was published in, I think, 1980 and 1981. So that work all predated, you know, GW wanting to get into this. And let's put it this way. I mean, GW was bold in a certain way. And, you know, working with, you know, our dear, you know, friend, Sam. I mean, you knew that they were, you know, getting good genetics.

1:52:58SpeakerAnd, you know, these were the pioneers of of type three varieties. Right. And if you think about it like this. Like what's been shown now in the literature since the approval of Epidiolex is Epidiolex, which is just a single cannabinoid. has that effect, again, in the liver of elevating certain enzymes. So the enzymes that metabolize CBD also metabolize other pharmaceuticals, but there's kind of like a rebalancing that happens in the liver's oxidation chemistry when you treat with just CBD alone.

1:53:40SpeakerWhat they believe, and again, this was literature to support this now, is that when you use full-spectrum medicine that's got all the minors in it, including THC, Delta-9, and, you know, CBG and everything else that's in there, the alphabet soup of full-spectrum cannabinoids, is they don't see that effect in the liver. So somehow the other cannabinoids that are in there are helping tame that effect that CBD has on the liver.

1:54:09SpeakerSo unlike most pharmaceutical companies, before you do clinical trial. So, yeah. So let's just go back and reframe this. So GW already had an inclination that if they take CBD through the clinic in these difficult to treat cases, that they're going to get a winner, right? Because the evidence was already out there in the literature from Carlini and Mishulam's work, right? But it was still going to take a fair amount of investment to get the approval.

1:54:50SpeakerBut now when you have the approval, you have the approval on a medicine whose active ingredient is not patented. You don't have the composition of matter. And so like most pharmaceutical companies will only run clinical trials On a novel active ingredient that they own and they have the patent to. So when that clinical trial, if it's success. So what you do at the beginning of a clinical trial is you file what's called an IND, which is an investigational new drug application before you start clinical trials.

1:55:28SpeakerAnd even for the FDA to be able to approve that, you have to have all kinds of safety requirements Thank you so much for joining us.

1:56:04SpeakerAnd it's something where they're actually going to see efficacy. With Epidiolex trial, if you read the report on the trials themselves, yeah, we know that CBD, even at heroic doses, right, Colin, can be tolerated by humans and animals and, you know, certainly like one of the hallmarks of CBD. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:56:41SpeakerThank you for watching.

1:57:02SpeakerYou breathe in air, right? The oxygen molecule replaces the CO2 molecule in the hemoglobin, right? And now you have oxygen to carry all throughout your body. So it's amazing, you know, even that that works at all, let alone it works and you could smoke or have compromised, you know, air condition, things like COPD and stuff like that, where

1:57:28Collin PalmerRight.

1:57:28SpeakerYou know, it's super, super important to make sure that you're not abusing that process at all. And cannabinoids are so fucking safe. They don't act on central brainstem function. So you can't OD from taking too much cannabis. So cannabis. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:58:19SpeakerThey're basically teaching the world what we already know about cannabis. So cannabis can act as something to reduce anxiety. Cannabis can stimulate your appetite. Cannabis can reduce pain and inflammation. And so if a pharmaceutical company is going to take advantage of that, they need to figure out how they can do it in a way that they can Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:59:13SpeakerBut I think full spectrum medicine will always be superior to those. And I don't know if there's a role for pharmaceutical companies to play. And I think that's where jazz kind of like got this and they're like, you know what? We can't really, they can't really be anti-cannabis, right? Because cannabis has led to two of their products, but they can't really be pro-cannabis because in a way, The people who are using cannabinoids are taking away market share from a doctor who would be prescribing Epidiolex or Sativex, right?

1:59:54SpeakerIt's fascinating stuff. And what you're saying is incredibly important. If you peel away some of the layers of what you're saying and sort of look at it from one lens, it shows you in very graphic terms why it's so difficult for us to get cannabinoid cannabis therapies to actually get them FDA approved. If it wasn't for Dr. Guy trying to sell a delivery system, If he had to count on the ownership of the substance itself, having, like you said, a patent on CBD, it wouldn't work.

2:00:26SpeakerAnd going back to Marinol, I know the history of Marinol. Marinol was based on the U.S. studies. The United States itself did an enormous amount of studies in the 50s and 60s into the 70s that was then just all that research was turned over to pharmaceutical companies. And it was as a result, this was revealed in our work, that it was as a result of our work with Dr. Grinspoon and others and Normal in fighting the scheduling of cannabis.

2:00:56SpeakerAnd as we're fighting the scheduling of cannabis, the DEA goes to pharmaceutical companies and they say, here, here's all our research that we spent millions and millions of dollars on. Produce a drug. And the funny thing about it is I remember they asked the pharmaceutical companies to come out with a drug that wouldn't get you high. It was all they asked them to do. And what did they come up with?

2:01:16SpeakerDelta nine THC at a pill. So I just it's fascinating. But again, that also shows, you know, this sort of backdoor way to get into a pharmaceutical. Are we going to see a front door way? I don't know. Without that ability to profit off of the molecule, without that ability to profit off of a delivery system, without someone handing you the research on a silver platter, without having to do the millions and millions of dollars.

2:01:43SpeakerI'm sure they told him whatever you come up with, we'll just skate it through the FDA, which bypassed that enormous FDA. Well, that's the bottom line.

2:01:52BubblemanThese things are just in place to keep this from ever happening, right? I mean, because you know that there's tons of drugs that have made it through. That have like like drugs for depression that have 77 percent increase of suicidal ideation or, you know, drugs for for weight that like make you go blind or, you know, like there's crazy heinous side effects that are death for all sorts of FDA approved drugs.

2:02:16BubblemanBut we better be super careful about accepting too many cannabis medicines that are FDA approved.

2:02:24Collin PalmerVery strange to look at the timing of it all, too. I was just like kind of looking at it. It was like, You know, 2018 guys like money flowing. There's just like, I mean, those guys must have been like, you know, it must have been like an 80s film. They're like, like thinking this thing was just going to be like shooting, shooting fish in a barrel, making money hand over fist because it was such like a topic of the of the moment.

2:02:53Collin PalmerRight. And, you know. Here one guy comes along with their little thin thread and he's like, snip. He's like, I got like 50 plants back here, dog, and I got 50,000 more coming of the same compounds. Like, what are you guys doing spending all this money? You know, and I think that's the most interesting thing for me is like this. Another question is like, so this was developed in the UK, correct?

2:03:20Collin PalmerIs that fair to say? So let's talk about their visibility on our world or just on the culture of cannabis in general. They have zero. So they're in labs. They're in their own world thinking that this is going to be the biggest thing in the world. And they're all drinking each other's Kool-Aid. And John over there, the CFO, is like, yeah, we're going to make millions. And Bob's over there like, yeah, I got the geneticist of a lifetime.

2:03:49Collin PalmerHe's the man. And sure, yeah, Dave is the man, was the man. Wow. It's like it's insane if you really think about it, because you could do spend a quarter of the money and end up with this literally like the same product. You know, obviously you need the genetics. You need someone like David at the time. But it's really interesting because it's 2018 is not that long ago, you know, for it to be federally approved.

2:04:17Collin PalmerThat's really fascinating if you really break it down from a timeline point of view.

2:04:21SpeakerWell, what you're saying leads us back to the sort of the present and back to our side event. There was another aspect of our side event. We, in the process of doing all this, as Etienne said, we've been working on it almost a year. During that time, one of our good friends, PhD, Dr. Pavel Pakta from the Czech Republic. He, at the time, was a member of the International Arcades Control Board.

2:04:49SpeakerAnd during this last year, he left the board last year. And this year, he was just sending out some posts on social media talking about some of the stuff that he learned while he was inside the board. And something he said just blew our minds because he said that CBD, In the way that the drug control system, the International Caritas Control Board, which, so you know, it's a 13-member board of experts.

2:05:14SpeakerSome of the experts are chosen by the member states. Some of them are chosen by the World Health Organization or whatever. But they're supposed to be experts on the treaty. Thank you for watching.

2:05:39SpeakerAnd they've gotten a little bit deeply involved in member state stuff. And I guess in a way to correct that and to help member states understand their own responsibilities and their own authority, there's been certain clarifications that the International Cardiac Control Board has made on CBD. And one of them was something that blew our minds completely because it's something we pointed out and the INCB argued with us, and that is there's exemptions in the treaty for hemp.

2:06:04SpeakerAnd the exemption for hemp actually gives as an example the seeds and the leaves of cannabis. And we always said that was just an example. That was just a short list of examples. That wasn't the inclusive list. And the INCB argued with us. Well, they've changed their position. Now they feel like Thank you so much for joining us.

2:06:41SpeakerAnd we only knew this because of Pavel telling us this because it was internal. It was private among the countries in the ICB. They do that all the time. They talk privately. And they told the countries, hey, CBD does not need to be controlled. They've always and this is another interpretation of the treaty. They'd always been telling the member states, well, The treaty just talks about a cannabis extract.

2:07:03SpeakerAnd certainly if you make a CBD dominant cannabis extract, it's still a cannabis extract. Technically, it's still controlled. And they held to that really tight. And this recent edict in 23, 24, 2023, 24, they changed that. And they said that, yeah, even if it's got a little dash of THC, they recognize that the CBD has some THC in it and some of the products that are more effective and it doesn't make them more dangerous.

2:07:28SpeakerBut Thank you for watching.

2:07:51SpeakerAnd we actually wrote a hundred page paper on what that good faith meant. And again, was scoffed at by everybody in the leadership of the reform movement. But it's now held as a tightly held belief of the International Archives Control Board. So we actually got Pavel Pakta, Dr. Pakta, to come present at our side event and talk about these treaty changes. Now we're going to be writing up a article, several articles about this side event, and we'll be able to break the news of what the INCB did because we had no Thank you.

2:08:42SpeakerTreaty interpretation. Because of what the INCB was saying about an extract of cannabis, it must be controlled. They controlled it in Schedule 5. Then they changed their position. And then the World Health Organization changed its position and came out with all this stuff on CBD. So what happened? They went back and... The DEA changed their position. And the other thing that they threw in the mix really confuses things because they said, based on all that that I just said, plus the Farm Bill, the Farm Act, the Hemp Bill.

2:09:14SpeakerAnd the Hemp Bill has nothing to do with pharmaceuticals, has nothing to do with FDA process, has nothing to do with access to medicine. But yet in the DEA's eyes, and maybe even to some extent the INCB's eyes, there's no line between them. The people at... Jazz Farmers.

2:09:31Collin PalmerThat's my question to you, Mike. It's like so like if I'm Jazz Farmers, I'm like fighting to like hand over fist for the right for just blanket. Let's call it blanketed cannabinoid research. Right. Because we're invested in this. And, you know, it's like this is the song I was thinking of. This is like 2016. They're like in the lab. They're like, all right, John. We're going to get the cannabinoids over here and there.

2:09:59Collin PalmerTo me, it's like, why aren't they fighting super hard for the right for their products to be, number one, researched more, more research to be invested in, just the whole thing. I mean, we're talking about not millions. We're talking about with a big fat B. You know, like it's, it's like, yeah, I mean, yeah, they probably love their moat, but the moat is, is like a thread, man, that like a child could snip it with a, with their, you know, plastic scissors, you know, and that's, that's the issue that I see with them overall is that I don't even know if they know what they're fighting for anymore.

2:10:42Collin PalmerAnd that's what, you know what I mean?

2:10:44SpeakerWell, that's why GW, you know, sold Jazz, right? Now Jazz is taking it over and now it's somebody else, you know, running with the football, right? And they, not the same people created it, not the same people who ran it down the field. They're just kind of the wide receiver who's received the ball and are now moving it up the field and they've been tackled. Don't know how to advance the ball, but however, they're on the field.

2:11:11SpeakerThey're at the UN. And also to say is, you know, last year before last, they actually had a side event with and aligned with Kevin Sabet. So, you know, there is that. Go ahead, Michael Kraus. There's several things going on at once. I remember reading about Marinol and the initial initiatives back in 1996. Because the movement, the cannabis movement has always long held that big pharma is against us, big pharma is working against us.

2:11:40SpeakerAnd I didn't see much evidence of that. So I actually dug into it and tried to see, you know, exactly get a beat on what was going on. And I found the opposite. I found a lot of literature and internal and external documentation from that company. I think it was Solvay Corporation or whatever that owned Maranol at the time. And they were profiting off of our initiatives because what was happening is we would create a medical marijuana initiative.

2:12:01SpeakerYou as some, you know, a middle-aged person would go to your regular doctor that you've been seeing for years and you tell him you saw on TV all this stuff about marijuana and they say, well, I can't tell you anything about marijuana. We don't even have the ability to prescribe marijuana, but I can prescribe you Maranol. And Sativex, Epidiolex is the same boat. It's a prescribable drug right now where everything else isn't.

2:12:23SpeakerAnd I think that's their, that's their, you know, sort of their belly wig, you know, but at the same time, it may be that GW saw that this is real guesswork on my part, but it may be very well true that GW just saw the writing on the wall and got out. Because there were cases where GW tried to fight for exclusivity and really fought hard against the hemp movement inside the United States.

2:12:47SpeakerThere's not many people really know about some of this inside fight. The only reason I knew about it because I was following that string of Marano and Epidiolex and Sadabax.

2:12:59SpeakerBut yeah, they tried really hard for that exclusivity. They tried really hard to fight it. And if you look at the tea leaves from the way the DEA is acting, the new administrative executive order of the president, et cetera, it's not looking good for the pharmaceutical side of this equation. It's not working out. The math isn't really working out for them, you know, based on their, you know, their investment for sure.

2:13:25Collin PalmerIt's really interesting. I know there's Pectura, there's PMI, there's a bunch of people that are really heavily investing in plant science and cannabinoid research. And I'm just super surprised that these people are, it's just, it's kind of insane. You know, there's so much money that they've spent. It's not millions, it's billions to just even be here.

2:13:50SpeakerYou know, the executive order that President Trump signed establishes a, you know, a prototype of Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:14:29SpeakerThat's what they're probably going to wind up having to go with is a blend of those two because that's it. The third one, getting CBD access from hemp material doesn't seem viable to us. There's not enough regulatory control to say that this is a good medicine and to give it to people as medicine. That doesn't mean that there isn't good hemp CBD out there, but there's more often than not a debate as to whether a particular product you buy at the gas station is even CBD at all.

2:14:57Collin PalmerSo you're saying from supply chain point of view, I remember when I first got into growing camp in 2008, 2009, that was the biggest uphill battle I had was efficacy on supply chain, right? And I don't think that has ever really stopped. So you, you know, I've been told a lot of this stuff is coming from China at this point. I don't, you know. Who knows? You know what I mean?

2:15:22Collin PalmerBut it feels to me like there's enough in our backyards to not have to do that, especially with the cost structure that's happening today. But, you know, business is business and not everyone sees the same thing we do, right? So do you guys believe that a majority of this stuff is being created just synthetically in the lab? I mean, Dr. Mark, do you see a lot of this or...

2:15:48Collin PalmerYou know, from, it seems like wasteful to do that because it's so cheap to grow, you know, hemp at this stage, right?

2:15:54SpeakerIn a commodity market, price wins all day long, right? Sure. It doesn't matter, right? I mean, so once it becomes a commodity, you know, it's hard to tell, you know, where these things come from. And, yeah, I mean, you know, I think what GW did was a valuable thing

2:16:18SpeakerFor the more valuable for the recognition that the phytocannabinoids do play a role in the modern pharmacopeia. And here's clinical, you know, validation of that. And, um, you know, Michael, you talk about the executive order. Oh God, I don't even want to go there, but, um, I think, you know, if moving to Schedule 3, you know, I've said it before that I don't think Schedule 3, I don't think it should be on the schedule at all.

2:16:56SpeakerThat's what I think. But, I mean, moving it to Schedule 3 does now make... The admission that there is medical use, right? We all know that there's medical use. The government's own patent proves it, right? So it just, I, yeah. I don't know. The executive order was supposed to, you know, ordered Bondi, who's got a whole bunch of other, you know, bigger fish to fry, to basically establish rules.

2:17:35SpeakerShe hasn't established jack shit. And I think that that whole...

2:17:42SpeakerExecutive order was just a diversion from the Epstein files. I really do. I don't think it has, I don't, I don't think, I don't see any, there's no changes. No changes have been made. When did that executive order come out? Months ago? You know, there's no changes that have been made. And I don't know, like with this new hemp, you know, regulation where they go down to what, 0.4 milligrams per package.

2:18:09SpeakerI don't think that's going to happen either because too many people are making money over in that hemp space. And unlike previous forms of prohibition, I think Mojave had said this, under previous forms of prohibition they didn't have huge businesses making billions of dollars to sort of snuff out. Here they're going to try to snuff that out. I don't think so. The genie's out of the bottle on that.

2:18:34SpeakerSo I don't know. It's going to be really interesting to see what happens, you know, in the next year or so and whether or not the the restrictive hemp laws that they put into the spending appropriations bill actually has any impact at all.

2:18:54SpeakerDr. Sheldon, let's ask. I got a question for you. OK, sorry. We've seen Mariner, nobody won it. We've seen Sativex fail multiple times. Epidiolex, $900 million in sales last year. Okay. Those are... Really? $900 million? Yeah. So that's nothing really. But, you know, if you look at the... It's basically a billion dollars. It's basically a billion, right? Yeah. Regardless. Okay. So those are the medicines out there.

2:19:26SpeakerSo just that being said... What cannabis medicine can they make that's different that would actually make it through the system, right? You can't grow cannabis consistently, right? So we can't replicate the same plant consistently all the time, right? So what sort of medication would that be? So even I think ATN, when the Charlotte Webbs people tried to take CBD, full spectrum CBD through the dietary supplement vehicle, that certainly could have been a way that they could have regulated cannabis as, yeah, it's that loosey-goosey dietary supplement, you know, QNOL, Prevagen, you know, all those products where you're like, oh, really?

2:20:18SpeakerYou know, they don't have any safety or efficacy data at all. But man, they have billion dollar businesses and commercials on the evening news. So if you look at like like doctors like Bonnie Goldstein and John Talleyrand, and I think what we need more of is. ATN, to answer your question, is I don't think we need FDA approved cannabis drugs, but I think we need more doctors who would use cannabis as a front end medication.

2:20:54SpeakerTo treat somebody with like insomnia or eating disorders or depression. So rather than, you know, sending them to Walgreens to go pick up their Vralar, right, which is some antidepressant medication, like Marcus said, it has suicidal ideation as a As a side effect, I mean, how could a doctor, right, who's pledged to do no harm, right, that Hippocratic Oath, pledged to do no harm, prescribe an antidepressant?

2:21:31SpeakerWhere the byproduct side effects could be suicidal thoughts. And then if that person takes the Vralar, right, and now they actually kill themselves, is that doctor responsible? The doctor basically could have said, hey, you know what? I mean, is there...

2:22:07SpeakerAgain, a way that we could bring that more into medical practicum where doctors understand that patients are going to be using cannabis. I think that that's always a realization that most people who step into a doctor's office with some type of medical condition are already using cannabis. Thank you for watching.

2:22:51SpeakerThey can't regulate a polypharmaceutical, which is exactly ATN what cannabis is. It's not just a single active ingredient, right? It's not just THC. It's the terpenes. It's the minor cannabinoids. It's everything else that's in cannabis that's not THC, right? It's kind of unfair that THC sometimes steals the thunder and say, okay, well, are you going to have some cannabis medication? Okay, that's just going to get me stoned or I'm going to get the munchies.

2:23:24SpeakerIt's like, no, not necessarily. And the other thing, you know, I was thinking about this as you were talking, ATN. First of all, ATN, you got to know, when I think of hero, when I think of the word hero, Your bald head is the first thing that pops into my mind. So you're my hero, man. And you're everyone's hero. Everyone that's watching, you're our fucking hero because you no longer serve this country, but you serve the world now.

2:23:55SpeakerAnd it's like, we need more ATN Fontanes in this world, right? Because your heart's in it for the right reason. And we love you so much. And I just want you to know, How much I respect you and how much, you know, you're just you're my hero. When I think of the word hero, you're the vision that pops into my brain. But I wanted to bring up something that you had mentioned, and that is that CBD is not psychoactive.

2:24:23SpeakerOK, let's let's let's unravel this for a second, because this is an interesting thing. So CBD, we do know that CBD acts on pha. And FA is an enzyme called FAAH, which is fatty amide acid hydrolysis or hydrolase. It's an enzyme, right? And so... Anandamide is the compound that THC mimics, right? So when you smoke cannabis and you take THC in, THC is binding to your CB1 receptors.

2:25:05SpeakerWell, normally it's anandamide that's binding to your CB1 receptors. And so when you consume CBD, the enzyme that regulates the amount of anandamide, right, which is the natural Thank you.

2:25:32SpeakerAgonizes CB1, just like THC. So let's go back to this notion that, wait, is is CBD truly not psychoactive? Well, what people will say, well, people who consume CBD and you know what? I was really super skeptical about this and I didn't feel the medicinal effects of CBD until I actually drank a nano emulsified drink that had CBD in it. And I felt it about halfway through the can.

2:26:04SpeakerI could feel this very peaceful feeling just, you know, to not sound cliche like the Eagles song, peaceful, easy feeling. It's kind of like the anti-high. So you know what you're like when you get high and you rip a big dab and you have to sit down in your chair. It's kind of like just the polar opposite of So unlike feeling a little disconnected and a little dizzy and maybe a little bit, you know, like disconnected, you feel just the opposite.

2:26:38SpeakerSo I could feel CBD in my system when I consume like a 10 milligram beverage, 10 milligram seltzer that's got CBD in it, okay? So if I could feel it, Why isn't it psychoactive? It's affecting my psyche, right? If I could feel it.

2:27:01BubblemanBut what what is in the beverage? Just CBD?

2:27:04SpeakerWell, yeah. Yeah. Just CBD isolate alone in a beverage when it's not emulsified. I could feel it. So the point is, is that does the effect that CBD have? OK, it may not be agonizing CB1, but what it's doing is it's inhibiting a compound That does, or it's inhibiting an enzyme that regulates a compound that does agonize CB1. So it's kind of like a compound removed from actually acting on CB1.

2:27:38SpeakerAnd I think, you know, if, again, if Ryan were here, he would tell us that CB1 is also an allosteric modulator of the, I'm sorry, CBD is a modular, is a, yeah. Allosteric modulator of the CB1 receptor. So in some ways, CBD affects how other compounds like anandamide or like THC bind to the CB1 receptor. I think when we were talking about this with Skunk Man years ago, he was saying that, yeah, CBD kind of like counteracts the effects of

2:28:17SpeakerSo it makes the effect that THC has at CB1 less psychoactive, right? So that would, again, speak to... Mixtures where you have like Sativex, which is a one-to-one CBD THC. Maybe that one-to-one, again, has some magic of affecting the psychoactivity. Anyway, just going back to the whole notion of Is CBD psychoactive? Well, I could feel it. Does that mean it's not psychoactive in the same way?

2:28:54BubblemanBefore you said you could feel it, you said it was the opposite of what getting high was. So we have to come up with some other term, you know? You are right over the border, by the way, of a province that is not allowed to have more than a 30% maximum for all their BHO pens, their rosin, their hash. Everything in Quebec is topped at 30% THC, and these motherfuckers are hash smokers.

2:29:20BubblemanSo I would guess that the majority of the companies are using a product like CBD or another cannabinoid to dilute their... Whatever they're at, right? I mean, geez, 30% is pretty low. If you make a decent hash, it's going to be 35 plus. And then you got to use whatever the amount you're making to offset that, to bring it down and to... My argument would be that, yeah, CBD robs the high, like it's a thief in the night.

2:29:51BubblemanIt's going to bind to all these receptors. And when the THC comes along, it's going to be like, oh, the drapes are closed. Nobody's home. Right. Go somewhere else. There's nowhere else to go.

2:30:04SpeakerBut I get like from a regular like going back to, I think, what ATN's point was, which is that, you know, the psychoactivity has a lot to do with Ultimately it being legal, whether it's psychoactive or not, right? Because I guess, you know, UN and governments all around the world are concerned with people just being too high, I would assume. The treaty states that it has to be a psychoactive substance.

2:30:33SpeakerSo they went and looked and said that this is not a psychoactive substance. So I was wondering that too, because I do, I get a come down effect. You know, somebody was, you know, somebody would ask, Caleb said getting low. I was like, getting subbeded, you know, bringing you down. You know, pretty outright, you know, for the fact that but that's why, you know, Skunk Man hated CBD.

2:30:56SpeakerHe didn't like his high being fucked with. And that's, you know, he always behemothly stated his disdain for CBD multiple times how he just, you know, didn't. So it was very fascinating to hear. Why they decided to go this direction in the assessment. We need to get a deeper understanding about why, but that they are necessarily reevaluating things such as this is still heartening to know that they are taking what we thought, well, am I really getting high here?

2:31:35SpeakerBook to it and said, yeah, we don't think it is. We don't think you are. So therefore, yeah. Whereas you're saying in science, there's an effect that they're not necessarily recognizing or acknowledging. Is that correct, Dr. Selva? Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if one of CBD's modes of action is to inhibit the regulatory enzyme that maintains the amount of anandamide that's present, then, yeah, there should be some effect on our mood and on our psyche.

2:32:13SpeakerI don't know, again, if it's psychoactivity per se, because it's not psychoactivity in an inebriating kind of way.

2:32:23BubblemanWhich is what psychoactive is. It doesn't have to be psychoactive to create feelings, to create physical relaxation, calmness, Pain and inflammation relief, subtle physical sensations, maybe therapeutic effects on the body. All of these things can happen without something being psychoactive.

2:32:45SpeakerWell, we'll do a deep review on what exactly Dr. Pakta said and how it fits in and all. But essentially, the psychoactivity is like more of an indicator. I mean, what they're really, I think, most concerned about is abuse potential in the treaty. And going back to a previous point, it really is fascinating to me because what it sounds like we're doing here, and when you're talking about a doctor prescribing something that may be unethical given the alternatives that are available, or whether you're talking about products that don't come to market because there's no way to capitalize on it, there's no way to patent it, there's no way to make enough profit.

2:33:24SpeakerThese are all, we're scratching around here, I think, at the failures of modern medicine. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:33:44SpeakerThat would help us. Veterans would be able to finally get a doctor at the VA to write our recommendation, for example. That would be very helpful. But it's not going to solve the supply chain issues. When we deschedule completely in the United States, it'll begin to bring us down that road to broader marijuana policy reform. It'll start helping us to decoil the overuse of police and enforcement and prisons and cannabis.

2:34:10SpeakerBut again, it's not going to supply, fix those supply chain issues. I don't see anything really working to fix those supply chain issues, except for potentially what you're talking about with the FDA. And that's interesting. I've got a little bit of feedback for you on that. The FDA was upset, evidently, because the activist community was saying, you know, they're cruel because they won't allow us to have a dietary status for, you know, cannabis CBD products.

2:34:37SpeakerAnd they replied evidently that they hear us. They understand. They agree with us even. But that they didn't like the placement of a dietary supplement. What they said was they like to try to create something else. This is something that is too heavy. It doesn't fit into what they normally see as a dietary supplement. And it's funny because they were actually bouncing around ideas. It sounded like they might be talking about like we have a medical edible, a medible.

2:35:06SpeakerThank you for joining us.

2:35:29SpeakerBut there's no easy solution here.

2:35:57BubblemanI mean, yeah, the only solution is a lot of access of everything. And then it doesn't matter who did the study or who thinks what. It's just like the customers, as long as you make everything available, you know, reasonably priced and accessible, all the people will let you know exactly which ones at which times they like the most. And ideally, that wouldn't be based on what it almost always is, which is price.

2:36:28BubblemanIt would be neat to just see, to remove price from the factor and just be like, this is just what's available in every aspect and put it all out there and let's see what people like. Because I think one of the things about cannabis and because it touches such a broad Group is that everyone uses it differently. There's so many different ways to use it and be like, and of course, back in the day, you'd meet people like, this is the best way.

2:36:56SpeakerNo, this is the best way. No, this is the best way. This is the only way.

2:37:00BubblemanIt's like, as I got older, I'm like, oh, right. There's all sorts of ways for all sorts of people. So make sure they're available.

2:37:08Collin PalmerYeah. And that's the truth. I mean, it's just there's no real. I think that's the biggest crutch that we have

2:37:40Collin PalmerAcross the board is how to get quality products to people.

2:37:44BubblemanWell, I think at that point in time, if I was a medical patient, I would almost assuredly be probably buying from the recreational market. I was just in Montreal with my good friend Neil, and he had just come back from Arizona. And he was like, dude, I went to Arizona, I went to this shop, and they were like, we'll give you 50% off everything except Green Dot.

2:38:08BubblemanAnd he was like, well, I want to see Green Dot. And he ended up buying these rosins from Green Dot. That he said were better than probably at least half of what he'd ever seen at a Legends. And he had been to many Legends. He bought this at a dispensary, dude, like for $60 a gram, because another thing Green Dot does is they max out the price.

2:38:29BubblemanThey don't want people being able to sell it for more, apparently in Arizona. And he was buying these two rosins. He said one was a sour D. He couldn't believe, he just could not believe that he had just bought this at a store. And in my opinion, You know, this is coming more and more and more like the people who are betting against people who are just trying to go through the legal channels and do it in this sort of semi bullshit manner are going to get it and are getting it more and more craft flour and more and more just like beautiful rosins and melts are going to start hitting the market products as well, like beverages that act super fast and, you know, gummies that aren't all full of sugar that are made out of flour.

2:39:13BubblemanThank you so much for joining us today.

2:39:34BubblemanThe production and the processing is incredibly complicated and following one wrong little thing can keep you away from this incredible sweet spot that if you could just move your variable over ever so slightly and depending on what you're doing there could be many many many variables which makes things much much harder but it's coming it really is and I think the the people for medical The challenge for pharma and these companies is going to be able to produce a product.

2:40:08BubblemanI mean, first of all, there's already one chunk of people who can create this medicine at home. They can grow it really well. They can grow it out in their own property where they know what's in the soil and what's in the terroir. They can process it themselves, right? Not everyone. There's a lot of people that are unable to do that, and those people are going to need the access.

2:40:30BubblemanI think a lot of those people are going to have access in a recreational market easier and faster to a more quality product. I'm not talking about hemp in gas stations. I'm talking about dispensaries that have regulatory framework that test for heavy metals and pesticides and yeast and mold counts and give you terpenes and cannabinoid breakdowns. I think that that quality is getting better and better and better.

2:40:58BubblemanAnd I'm here for it.

2:41:02Collin PalmerI agree, dude. I mean, that's what we do in New York. It's all living soil, organic. The QR code is directly to the COA on the jar. You can know what you're getting.

2:41:18Collin PalmerLike you, Marcus, I think it's important that people realize, follow people That are showing their process because you can see what they're doing behind the scenes that ends up in the jar that you just spoke about. Why that sour diesel was so good was because the select, you know, they grew it right. They selected it right. They washed it right. And they've shared their process, you know, and that's important to understand who those people are.

2:41:41Collin PalmerIt's like musicians, you know, you can see Derek Trucks playing guitar. Can you see your hash maker making hash? Well, I can. Yeah, exactly. And that's where I encourage others to kind of search out those that are doing that in their respective states.

2:41:59BubblemanIt's like the open kitchen at the restaurant. You're like, you know, those motherfuckers are confident in what they're doing. You know, they're definitely not picking their nose and do another like lack of SOPs.

2:42:09Collin PalmerTotally. I was on a live the other day and some guy was like, oh, that looks really good. But can you show me your fresh frozen? And I turned the camera around. I said, look into my eyes. Let's go take a walk.

2:42:23Collin PalmerAnd we went and looked at the fresh frozen. And I think it's important that people understand that we should be taking pride in that. I take pride in the things that we wash. And it's important to know that there's quality there. You know, otherwise, yeah, like you're going to be afraid to be able to share all of it, but you should be excited. It's the whole process, man.

2:42:49BubblemanAll of this requires it, you know, more than a lot of other things. There's not as much, you know, metaphorically putting lipstick on the pig.

2:42:58Collin PalmerA hundred percent.

2:43:00BubblemanIt's not something that is easily doable. You really have to do it in the grow. That's where you make the resin shine. Processing is just the process that you have to go through to isolate it from everything else. But it's the grow where you really get things done.

2:43:20Collin PalmerIt's true. You can also over freeze dry. You can, you know, process. It all matters, man. I would say I would. Yeah, but I think you're right. Like. Thank you for watching.

2:43:50BubblemanAnd if you're good, if you're the hash whisperer, you're going to hear what the hash says and it's going to tell you where it belongs. And that's just very straightforward. The hash is not just going to be for any skew. It'll have a very specific like, oh, this hash Thank you for joining us.

2:44:22BubblemanYou can do either a full melt bubble or a static wash. I always like to tell people that make dry sift, that are doing dry sift products, to have that 200 lines per inch screen and just the nitrile glove with your hand. Make sure it's a person's hand who isn't warm and can stay cold. Thank you for watching.

2:44:59BubblemanAnd the message you get on your hand, like only the best grown and best cultivars that are dumpers will cover your hand. And when it happens, it is like revelatory. I think one of the reasons it never really caught on was because Like bubble hash, it was even more rare in how excellent you had to grow the weed, right? Of course, Sam would hone in on this thing that was like the word of God when it came to the caliber of the grow.

2:45:27BubblemanAnd most people are just not growing on that level. That's why when the static sift tech finally came out, you saw very few pictures of people's hands that were completely, utterly and completely covered. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you next time.

2:46:02BubblemanIt's like covered from the whole hand. So some of those varieties were like, you know, if you had a variety like that, you could build an extraction company around a variety like that. You could do a water hash skew. You could do a whatever skew. If you have something special like that, that transfers the flavor and the profile and it's enjoyable and it's, you know, That's kind of hard to beat.

2:46:30BubblemanFrom a hash maker standpoint, I'm glad to see now that people are much more focused on identifying and preserving Those genetics versus not really paying attention. Back in the day, it was really like, get the plant to bend the knee to our ability to wash it. And it was like, well, you'll see how well that works out when you're pulling one and 2% on the fresh frozen.

2:46:57BubblemanIt won't be, it won't be, you cannot build a company around that.

2:47:06Collin PalmerI get that asked all the time even today like especially in like New York where you know the people want things that you just need to do a ton of work to get you know like for instance haze in you know large amounts to get large amounts of haze to wash you're it's just not worth it to your point you know um now there's profiles you can get that are close to that but you can't use a Cuban black haze to do it

2:47:37BubblemanI will and I have.

2:47:39Collin PalmerOne percent. Not anymore.

2:47:43BubblemanThat's, you know, that's that's the beauty of personal. That's the beauty of like, hey, I grew it. I've got this in my backyard. It's like I got my crop over here. I got my twenty five plants and it didn't cost me anything to add five of these Cuban black haze that, you know, I had to like grow for three months indoors and force flower them before I put them out on the side of my house.

2:48:05BubblemanBut Maybe I'll do that one day soon. I have this haze growing here, but it's low growing. We need to get it out of the tent.

2:48:16Collin PalmerIt's just probably, you know, spring's just waking up. So I'm sure it's like mine. I have these clones that I literally flowered on a window sill. I did like 20 clones on a window sill, singles. Window sill bubs? They came out so good and it's so beautiful to have the smells just flying around the room, you know? Dude, I love cannabis houseplants. I'm a big fan. Yeah, it's great.

2:48:42BubblemanBig fan of the windowsill cannabis houseplant.

2:48:44Collin PalmerThree of the varietals that I did, I was just curious to see what the resin would do. And I'm really glad I did it because I'm really excited to clone them out and to run them more. Nice. It's been a minute. It's good fun. Yeah.

2:49:00BubblemanWell, I'll tell you, that's a pretty good Sunday afternoon right there. I've been away for two weeks. I was home for two days of those two weeks and I had the Heady Happenings and the Hash Church at the Heady Happenings. So this is kind of my first time home in two weeks. It feels pretty darn good. Not going to lie. Got some pretty decent shows planned for the upcoming month.

2:49:24BubblemanI'm going to have a show with Cannabrand Solution, which is the company that I got the Vision Box vaporizer. I really like this little vaporizer. It's tiny. It's like the size of a pair of AirPods. We're doing a release in Colorado here soon for the brand, so I'll probably have some of the partners on there. And Danny from Cannabrand Solutions, who was always a big supporter of Legends of Hash, just an all-around good dude, lives just over the border, really.

2:49:52BubblemanHe's... He's away right now, but I think the 22nd we're going to do that. I still want to get Dave on from Canitrol and get into this off-gassing conversation of active water, bound and unbound water. Really excited for that conversation. I'll probably put out the feelers again for a volatile organic compound show. Love to get like Nick Ziegler and Marshall and the abstract guys and Dr. Mark and Jeremy Plum and many, many others.

2:50:25BubblemanThat's a tough one to do because it's such a hurting of cats, but I will pull it off. I will not give up. It will happen. And I feel like there's another show, but I can't remember exactly what it was about. Oh, it was going to be a Kootenai episode. A good friend, Pamela West, Mike West's wife, reached out to me. Shout out to Mike West. And she said she's working with these Kootenai growers.

2:50:50BubblemanOf course, most of them, if not all of them, are friends of mine. And I said, yeah, that would be amazing. We'd love to do a show. With the sort of Kootenai growers and talk a little bit about our northern Humboldt up here, which is kind of what I've always called it. It's just this very cannabis centric area of Canada, of BC in particular. There's nothing else really like it in Canada.

2:51:12BubblemanIt's just a whole beautiful area of full fledged trippers and freaks.

2:51:18SpeakerMy people for certain.

2:51:19BubblemanJosh and Kelly. They're in the coots. Anyway, I think I would like to thank the Press Club for being a big supporter as well as Puffco and Bubble Bags. Thank you all to those companies for supporting. I want to thank you guys for coming on. I'm going to wrap it up an hour early today because... I haven't seen my kid in like five days and I want to, he's like literally right over there.

2:51:44BubblemanI'm going to go have fun with him. Maybe take the electric skateboard and the electric scooter and go to the trails up in Squamish. A little bit chilly, but we can bundle up, rip through the trails, listen into some tunes, should be pretty fun. Yeah, I implore you if you can and you have family and kids and stuff, you should, you know, go spend the rest of your Sunday with them.

2:52:05BubblemanI thank all of you guys on the panel. Both with and without kids. I know you guys are sacrificing your time to be here always. And thanks to Etienne and Michael for going to the UN and Forrest and Monica and the memory of Wade and all of our fallen soldiers, including Skunk Man Sam and Frenchie Cannoli and Subcool and just an endless barrage. Horatio Delbert. There's one that should definitely still be here.

2:52:33BubblemanThanks, everyone, for watching. Tune in on Sunday on Hash Church, the congregation. Thank you, Bingo Lombardi, for holding it down in chat, as you often do. And thank you, Boro, for just being so passively aggressive in the chat room today. We can appreciate that. Thank you for that. Always makes my Sunday better when someone's just going out of their way to be a huge dick.

2:52:57SpeakerI appreciate you, dude. Right on, everybody.

2:53:01BubblemanThanks, Caleb. Thanks, Dr. Mark. Thanks, Colin, Michael, everyone else. Good to see you, bro. Thanks for all the space, man. Jokes, jokes. Thank you, brother. We'll see you all soon. Peace out. Peace out.

2:53:13SpeakerSee you, everybody.