Brandon Krenzler's PTSD Story, Brave Michaela and CB1 Receptor Science

0:02BubblemanHey, welcome, welcome. Cheers for you, Tommy. Church bells.

0:10BubblemanCash Church episode 41, guys, is in session. Fucking rights. Church bells to start off church. Let's send out the texts for the day. That one sent and that one sent. All right. Exciting. Whoever gave me that idea, I think it was Tommy, but I could be wrong. The chat was moving so fast. Whoever said I should use church bells to bring in church, thank you. That was pretty fucking cool.

0:38BubblemanAnd welcome everyone to Hash Church 41. Holy Christ, have we been at this for a long time. 41 weeks, we are just 11 weeks away from being a full year. Welcome to my lovely friend Etienne, atheist I see.

0:57Etienne FontanWell, you know, I went to Catholic school. I have nothing wrong with against people's belief in God.

1:01BubblemanYeah, I went to Catholic school too. They really produce a lot of atheists, don't they?

1:05Etienne FontanWell, when you read the Bible and you're educated about the dogmatic symptoms that are out there, it's pretty easy for people to come to their own conclusions. So I wish anyone love and respect and whatever... Spiritual enlightenment that they need, but please don't come to Hash Church and start dropping your own science. We're here for Hash. We're sure.

1:29BubblemanWell, I want to welcome Nick and Brandon to the room as well. Nice quick jump on there, guys. Wow, that was like within a minute. Morning, guys.

1:39NickHow are you all?

1:41BubblemanDoing very good, doing very good. It's really nice to see you in the chat room, Nick, or Brandon, both of you. I first saw your little documentary that your daughter was involved in, oh, I guess when it first came out. Has it been a couple years now, maybe three years?

1:56NickWhich one, the Vice one?

1:58BubblemanYeah, I think it was Stoned Kids.

2:01NickYeah, that was a couple years ago now.

2:05BubblemanYeah, and then I met Michaela and her mother... In Toronto, a couple years ago as well, and was also very touched by the whole story and just, you know, it's more than just a story. It's the importance of putting a new face on the end of cannabis prohibition. And, you know, being an activist for as many years as I have been, and even just talking about in the chat room today, you know, Thank you for your bravery in speaking

3:03BubblemanIn making the choices that you made, that could not have been easy. I have three children myself, and I just... That's a heavy-duty situation that you were put in, for sure, and I think you guys made some great choices.

3:15NickWell, thanks, man. It was awesome that you got to meet them when they were in Canada. I would have been there myself, but there is no way we could have afforded so many passports in such a short amount of time. And so I just like, you know what, you go have fun in Toronto, I'll just stay here with our younger one. Michaela's doing awesome. She has a broken leg right now, so her stomach's kind of screwed, but she's making do.

3:40NickYeah.

3:42BubblemanWell, that's being a kid. Isn't it funny? You know, Wendy Turner, Colton's mother, who was in a few weeks ago, Colton was the boy suffering from Crohn's disease, and it damn near killed him. He had some serious Crohn's disease, a little bit more advanced than your average case, and he turned it all around with cannabis. And just the way his mom had mentioned, you know, I just want my teenage boy to be angry and to not want to come to the dinner table and to get hurt skateboarding or something.

4:17BubblemanThat's a normal life.

4:21NickI was jumping on a trampoline with her on her birthday. We got her a trampoline for her birthday five days after we got it for her. I think her bones are a little weak from all the prednisone she had to take.

4:33BubblemanYeah, that makes sense.

4:34NickBecause her little sister's on there with us and felt the same impact and it didn't happen to her. And so we're just like, man, this sucks really bad.

4:44BubblemanYeah, that's terrible for sure. But hopefully she's building up the strength and she's consuming her phytocannabinoids and her essential amino acids. And I mean, dude, whether you believe it or not, like you, your interview at that moment in time with the dude from Vice, And the way you explained it so simply, it's just, I mean, I applaud it. I think it's just a real, super necessary, this is the type of activism that gets shit done.

5:19BubblemanAnd we're at that point right now. We need to get shit done. It's not over by any means. We do have people in prison for cannabis. We still have You know, I was, for instance, I went to, my mother invited me to a political gathering yesterday, and I'm not much into politics, but I thought, I'll go meet this young kid who's seeming to be potentially our new prime minister.

5:39BubblemanHis name is Justin Trudeau. He's with the Liberal Party. And I just thought, oh, I'll go see. I was quite skeptic in the sense that I don't usually listen to politicians. He did have some fairly good things to say about cannabis. A few things that were a little off pace and, you know, like how it could potentially damage the developing mind of a child, I wasn't in agreeance with.

6:02BubblemanBut my real bummer was when a, and he asked, when are we going to legalize marijuana? We got to get this done, man. You know, it can really save a lot of people. And he, you know, he was just honest and from the heart. And I thought, so this is a guy that fought for a country's freedom, that fought for a people's freedom. And the whole fucking crowd is laughing.

6:29BubblemanThey're just, they're snickering. And it's, I just thought to myself, you know, I bet you more than half the people that snickered, this guy fought for your country. He's suffering from PTSD. He's had friends commit suicide in a number that most people couldn't wrap their fucking heads around. And the crowd is sitting there snickering at him. And I just thought Trudeau answered beautifully and he really sort of like, you know, thanked the guy for serving, brought it back.

6:58BubblemanBut I just, I wonder sometimes where the mob mentality of people lies and how potentially the mob mentality is the most affected mentality of the prohibition.

7:11NickThe mom mentality is developed based upon acceptance. Whatever human beings feel that the entire throng around them will accept is what they'll take part in and be party to. So if one person snickers, generally the mass will as well. And that's where people are leaders.

7:35NickOur warlords of the past who've conquered things have relied upon that for that reason. You infuriate the mass, you win, you know? Yeah, for sure. It's really sad because it can be bad for people who don't gain the acceptance of the crowd because your story gets lost in the midst of the people talking in hushed tones beside you, you know?

7:58BubblemanWell, that's how I felt for this guy, Brandon. I felt like because he wasn't able to, you know, potentially articulate his message maybe as well as some of the other people around him, that his message should have not been any less heard. And I just wonder why people can't simply, you know, give this guy the respect. And you know what happened a few times? There was another gentleman in the room.

8:23BubblemanAnd of course this is all prejudice to the way we look. The war veteran had a tie-dye shirt, he had tons of tattoos, and so, you know, when he asked this question everyone laughed. And Justin Trudeau said, oh, you know, even though you're wearing a tie-dye shirt, I didn't know you were going to ask that question. And then it happened again to another gentleman who was also completely covered in tattoos, looked like a pretty hardcore dude, like he'd lived a pretty hardcore life, and he had his arm up, I'm going to say for an hour of the questions, and when he finally got his question, I mean...

8:59BubblemanHe was basically one of the most powerful people that spoke. And what he said was he asked in regards to what we're going to do to help children get off this epidemic of pharmaceutical prescription drugs, which right now street gangs are using as currency on the streets. To purchase other illicit drugs, which is also epidemic, cocaine, methamphetamines, prescription drugs, and alcohol, he never once mentioned cannabis. And I felt like if we could have had those two questions asked simultaneously, like, you know, you said that potentially cannabis is damaging the youth's minds.

9:34BubblemanI'd like to ask this guy who works with troubled youth, lives on the street, and literally just helps kids for a living that are hurting. And this guy You know, he admitted, he's like, I don't have a pot to piss in. I'm just, my whole being is to help the children. And it was, that was just interesting once again, that mob mentality. At the start, everyone kind of was like, oh, this guy, this guy.

9:56BubblemanAnd then at the end, everyone was clapping because what, like you said, the leader was When Trudeau answered this guy, first thing he said, look, right off the bat, I want to thank you so much for the sacrifices that you're making for our youth. The youth is the future. No matter what your belief system is, that's just kind of a fact. The youth is the future. So it was interesting.

10:18BubblemanWe got 374 viewers in the room. I was kind of waiting for 420 and higher. And then we could get maybe Brandon to tell his story and to tell us a little bit about his journey. Of course, Brandon was invited and brought in today by one of our reverends of Hash Church, Nick Bradley, who is always helping us out. He's always doing well for us. Give thanks, Nick.

10:46BubblemanWe appreciate what you do for Hash Church, dude. You know, like when you first started offering your help to me, I accidentally classified you into this group of people that I just, I get a lot of people messaging me all the time and messaging me and they want to help and I want them to help, but often their help is a little bit diluted. And I accidentally put you into that group and I apologize for that because you've been nothing but an absolute champion.

11:12BubblemanPotentially one of the people that have brought the most powerful stories to Hashtag. So if I had more than two thumbs, Nick, I'd give you more than two thumbs up. I appreciate you, buddy. Keep doing what you do and never stop.

11:25SpeakerThank you very much. You know, it's something that since I've jumped into the industry, it's been my passion and bringing the stories of the patients to the forefront and driving the juvenile patient stories and the senior patient stories, that's what's changed and allowed this industry to jump in the fast lane and really get to where we're at in such a short amount of time. So, You know, again, like you, I applaud Brandon and Wendy and the parents that are so brave to not only afford their children this treatment method, but to jump out there and put their neck on the line and tell their story to the masses.

12:07SpeakerSo thank you, Brandon, and all the parents out there.

12:12NickWell, thank you guys for all of your support. Without people like you bringing us all together, giving us platforms to speak on, we wouldn't have a place to tell these stories from that helps to, you know, change the way this plant and other things that we do are seen.

12:28BubblemanWell, that's it. And if you're not going to be taking care of the elderly and the youth, what kind of a society are you building? I mean, the youth is the future. The elderly got us where we are. We need to take care of them. We can't let them rot to death in... Thank you for joining us. We'll be right back.

13:02BubblemanThe actual community is everyone. I mean, Todd, actually, who just came into the room. I'll welcome Aaron as well from DNA Genetics. I was, by the way, Aaron, for my... I'll show you this because you'll appreciate it, I think. I thought it was kind of funny. I met our future prime minister yesterday. What is his name? Justin Trudeau. And I was... You know, you can't even see it, but I was wearing my DNA hat when I got my picture with him.

13:30BubblemanSo I thought... I thought you might appreciate that, even though you can't really see the DNA too well. There I am with our future Prime Minister, buddy. Yeah, I told him all about DNA genetics.

13:41AaronTodd, welcome.

13:42BubblemanCan you hear me?

13:47SpeakerHe's a fan of the tangy, I think. I think he's a fan of the tangy.

13:52BubblemanA fangy, we call them. Fangies. I just coined that new term, by the way. Can you guys hear me? Yes, I can hear you. My level is a little bit low. I was able to hear Brandon and Nick fairly quietly, but I could hear them. Welcome to Horatio, who has made it into the room today. And we are just cracking 420 viewers. And that was the number that I said we would pass things over to Brandon, and I think that's a decent amount of people who are watching live right now.

14:29BubblemanI know your story well, Brandon, but I'm not sure how many of the people watching do, so why don't you tell us your story about Brave Michaela and the journey that your family has had to take since this began. All right.

14:46NickHi, my name is Brandon Krenzler. I am the father of Brave Michaela Comstock. She's a pediatric cannabis therapy patient who is now 10 years old. When she was 7, she was diagnosed with T-cell acute lymphoblastic leukemia. That's a particularly rare and aggressive form of childhood cancer. When she was diagnosed, the doctors told us that she had a 75% chance of remission and that they would immediately begin steroid and chemotherapy, which they did.

15:19NickAbout two weeks into her standard therapy, her oncologist told us that it wasn't quite working and they wanted to counsel us for a bone marrow transplant and full body radiation protocols, which is something that Aaron and I completely resisted. And so instead what we did was we applied our knowledge about the beautiful cannabis plant to Michaela's treatment and went and got her an Oregon medical marijuana card and immediately began giving her full extract cannabis oil or Rick Simpson oil depending on what you call it.

15:51NickShe got very, very, very high on her first few doses there and she went into Basically, a healing mode. She went to sleep and she had fevers and the oncologist told us that the fevers can be caused by steroids also. It's when you're experiencing apoptosis, cancer cell death, you get flooded with the toxins from the bad cells in your body dissolving away.

16:25NickSix days after her first few doses, we had her bone marrow tested again so they could get a standardized level for her potential bone marrow transplant. And they told us that she was in remission. They didn't know how that was possible. The oncologist actually used the term, quote, baffled. And Aaron and I knew what we had done and we just couldn't help but smile to ourselves knowing that the plant that everybody demonized so heavily actually had a direct hand in curing our daughter's leukemia.

17:01NickFrom there we went and told the story to Noel Crombie at the Oregonian who subsequently put it out on the AP, the Associated Press, and it went viral across the country and the rest of the world. We began to tell Michaela's story that cannabis put her leukemia into remission and that it is a viable treatment option for any pediatric patient out there who is currently undergoing chemotherapy, radiation therapy, or steroid therapy.

17:30NickAnd it doesn't work just for cancer patients, but many others. We, however, focus on Pediatric cancer patients because that has been our path. And so we help kids now. That's what our family does. We grow cannabis. We make oil. We give it to kids. We try to protect the next generation.

17:54BubblemanWell, that's unbelievable work for sure. I mean, like I said, as a parent, I can't imagine going through it. It must have seemed like an absolute godsend just to have gone from the poisoning from that sort of, that other option, to the simplicity of using cannabis. I mean, my goodness, even as people who are staunch cannabis activists and full-blown, you know, we know, myself included, like back in the 90s, I just, I thought I knew so much about cannabis thanks to Jack Herrera.

18:28BubblemanAnd I realized as the last 20 years have come, I didn't know as much as I thought at all. And I really had no idea the importance of this companion plant. And it's unfortunate that Chris Bennett wasn't able to come in and talk with us a little bit about the history of the companion plant and how cannabis has always been with human beings and how it almost seems as though that it isn't a coincidence that this plant and humans have this intensely intimate relationship.

18:57BubblemanIt's amazing, really. Welcome D420K to the room. Hey, Brandon.

19:08Etienne FontanThank you. You're a great role model for other parents to see that you can go outside of conventional medicine, that you can actually take that risk. But when did you know, as a parent, That you had to go there, that you had to take that risk because there was a point you had to kind of take an embarkation from when you're just a dad to now you have to be an activist.

19:34Etienne FontanSo what was that catalyst and what did it feel like for you?

19:38NickThe catalyst for us to go public was basically protection. We knew that as soon as anybody found out that we gave our child cannabis oil, that there would be hell to pay if we didn't take the appropriate steps to protect ourselves and to gain the support of those around us, not just the cannabis community, but parents. Parents can be the biggest driving force for any movement because nobody wants to argue with a parent about their child.

20:05NickEverybody was a child. Everybody has children or loves a child. And so Aaron and I, instead of keeping it secret, we decided we'd go public with the hopes that not only would it protect us from potential CPS intervention, But it would also protect us from going to jail. It would protect us from losing our child. It would protect us from the wrath of the closed-minded. And so that's basically why we went public.

20:36NickWe wanted to inspire people. Yes, we do. But more than that, we wanted to protect our family. We wanted to remain all together. What we did was unheard of. Cash Hyde, Mike and Callie Hyde were the only other ones we'd ever found online that had given their kids cannabis. And, you know, we just thought that they had support, they were protected, we need support so we would be protected because if we don't have that protection, And Michaela's taken from us, then she has to undergo all the harsh standardized chemotherapies and treatments without cannabis.

21:15NickAnd so the lesser of two evils is putting ourselves out there and risking ourselves. We were already activists. We already spoke about cannabis. We already spoke about medical marijuana, recreational marijuana. We already did these things. And so it was natural for us to go ahead and develop The story that we had at our fingertips to be protection for us as well as inspiration for others. We wanted to tell people, look what this has done.

21:41NickDon't let them lie to us anymore. Don't turn your back on this. We've learned that this is actually a fantastic first step in anybody's treatment. We recommend that you start this cannabis oil when you have diseases before you even start other treatments.

21:59SpeakerI would say one thing.

22:05BubblemanJust wanted to mention that one of the things that seeing Brandon speak on Vice as well as Michaela and the way she explained how it made her feel, kind of her explaining what stoned felt like. Or being high, or being, you know, a little bit. And I just thought it really was this important message to help normalize, because that really right there is one of the last, last, last, like, oh, the children, oh, what if they get stoned, and we can have CBD, but we can't have THC, and this whole sort of thing that's like, why is it a bad thing?

22:42BubblemanLike, when I remember Lester Grinspoon telling the story of his Son suffering from chemotherapy radiation and going home and vomiting for hours on end. And then one day he smokes a joint outside of the hospital and on the way home asks to go to the submarine place for a submarine sandwich. That is so touching and heartwarming that you're like, why is that a bad thing? Why? Is that the...

23:07BubblemanI mean, I know, oh, he's got red eyes, he's stoned. Oh, you mean it relieves ocular pressure and can save your eyesight? Oh, look at him, he's all got the munchies, stuff and food. Oh, you mean if you're suffering from wasting syndrome and you're about to die because you can't fucking eat food, that you can increase your appetite? So these things are... they all need to be flipped around, and I'm telling you, out of all that came out of this, from my perspective, I mean, you healed your daughter and you helped normalize...

23:35BubblemanSomething that in my opinion, like you mentioned earlier about the mob mentality, that people should not be taken aback. Child, I had a conversation with a woman about six months ago whose son had a brain tumor and he was two and a half years old. He got in touch with me and she asked me what she could do. And I said, well, I mean, potentially you could start taking high doses of phytocannabinoid extracts.

24:05BubblemanYou can get and consume them. When I told her this, she came back and said, well, I've done research, and it sounds like just CBD is what is good for kids. So I'm going to hold off on THC, and I'm going to give them some high CBD for a couple months. And I thought, I'm not an expert or anything, but I was like, well, I don't know.

24:25BubblemanEverything I've heard suggests that THC, and I sort of gave her the name of the scientist in Spain, and she's been working on this, Christine. For tumor reduction, like, T is a fairly important component in that. So for the media to mix it up, because of the non-normalization, because of the bastardization of the black sheep name that THC's been given, I just felt like you guys really broke through a powerful wall with that one.

24:57BubblemanThat's all.

24:58NickYeah. We have gotten... A lot of conversations directed at us about Arcade being high. And, you know, I used to get frustrated. I used to get overwhelmed with the question and not know exactly how to answer it because I was so worried about what people thought about it. And what they think of us as parents allowing our kid to get quote high. But when you think about it, most of these parents give their kids Vicodin, Oxycontin, Benzodiazepines, Morphine, all of these things.

25:30NickEvery single time Michaela ever went to the hospital for a treatment, they offered her, you know, morphine or narcotic derivatives. And we just look at them and be like, she doesn't need that. She doesn't need that. And they thought we were crazy. They treated us like that. There's been a few times when the doctors almost tried to force these narcotics on our kids. And she didn't need them because she had oil.

25:51NickWe kept her oil regular. She didn't have to be away and without it, you know. And So when I talk to people about their kids getting high, I tell them, you know, if you're willing to give your kid a Vicodin when he's in pain or she's in pain, then you should be willing to take a chance with this oil because the high, it does happen, yes. There's a very strong amount of psychoactivity with concentrated cannabis oil.

26:14NickHowever, there's also something called human tolerance. And if you're patient and you're there for your child and you support them and work with them, you will build that tolerance for them and they'll be able to heal themselves and they won't be high anymore. And you know what? That's the same thing that goes to be said for antidepressants and Adderall and Ritalin. You can't just take your normal standard dose of those and be okay.

26:35NickYou're going to be high as hell. And I mean really, really high. And people don't correlate the high from cannabis to the high from pharmaceutical drugs. Why? Because pharmaceutical drugs are legal and cannabis is illegal. So automatically the high that you associate with cannabis is demonized. When actually, It brings you out of that shell you're stuck in with your disease. It brings you out of the horrible sides of your chemotherapy treatments.

27:02NickThat's a good high. And you know, when we sit down and we tell parents about this high and how the high affects the child and makes their life, their quality of life much better, they begin to see and they begin to agree and they begin to tell people it's not so bad. And I heard you bring up CBD. Yeah, CBD is great for disease. CBD has been shown to stop the spread of cancer cells.

27:25NickBut Mikayla didn't take CBD. CBD is not what is responsible for her remission. High THC cannabis oil is. We worked past that high. She did just fine. We didn't try CBD until later in her therapy when everybody said it's what we had to do. We were wrong for THC. Try CBD. Try, try, try. So we did. And you know what? It actually upset her. It made her anxious.

27:50NickIt made her uncomfortable inside of her own skin. And that's because we had the dosing wand. We gave her just a little bit too much CBD. And it gave her anxiety. It stimulated her way far beyond what she's comfortable with. And so we learned right there that there's more to this stuff than we didn't understand. And so we started looking into CBD and its great procedures. Yet 90% of the kids who are taking CBD procedures find later that they still need to add small doses of THC to their regimen.

28:21NickWhy? Because it's about the whole plant. This plant, you know, this plant has thousands of compounds, terpenes, monoterpenes, sequestered terpenes, cannabinoids, vitamins, minerals, all bound inside of its green plant tissues. And we extract it and we get out what we think is medicinal, but we're still only human. We don't know exactly what's medicinal. We know what gets us high. And that's what we're extracting for. We don't have the proper capabilities to study these compounds on our own without the help of scientists, so we do it on our own.

28:53NickAnd we say this works because it does, but we don't know exactly what causes it to work. So to say that CBD or THC is better than the other or more important is highly wrong. You know? We got to say we need to focus on whole plant medicine. And that's going to be the answer.

29:12BubblemanYep. It's interesting because our company in Jamaica, Cannabinoid Research and Development, are really the mission. On the business card, it just says pure plant profiles. That's what we want. We want pure plant profiles. No one's going to do it better than the plant. Wow, we filled up nicely here. Welcome Jeff Church, the Cannabis Reverend, and Mark Scaldone, our Hash Church Chemist. Good morning, everybody. I do appreciate that you've had all these conversations, Brandon, with parents.

29:49BubblemanIt's really quite an interesting topic. The topic of not allowing, or even, I mean, honestly, you should write a magazine article or something about what you mentioned in regards to that high that's not the high that people are thinking, but it's the high that allows your child to up themselves out of that, whatever that horrible shell of the disease or the suffering that they're in, open that up and get out of that head space, raise that level of quality of life.

30:21Jeff ChurchIsn't that the same thing they're trying to do with prescription drugs, except for those prescription drugs that they're giving you are making you more sicker, they're charging you more money, and you can't make them yourself. You know? With cannabis, you grow it, you make oil of it, you smoke it, however you use it, you're enhancing your quality of life, whether or not... I forgot where I was going.

30:52Jeff ChurchWhether or not you know, you're paying for it. I mean, it's just, I don't know, man. It's fucked up that we have to be put in this category that we can't help people with cannabis, you know? And slowly that tide's turning.

31:06SpeakerIt's insane. And, you know, from the perspective of the child, you know, Brandon, I think it's great what you're doing with your child. I... I don't know if you know who I am, but as a child, I had histiocytosis X nine times in eight years. Between ages two and ten, I had nine tumors. I had ten surgeries. I went through radiation chemotherapy for my entire childhood. And it was only 1979 when my mother started giving me... She read about it in Good Housekeeping, no less.

31:40SpeakerBut we did have to keep it a secret because of Child Protective Services and the fact that, you know, this is, you know, pre-Reagan years. It would have been immediate separation from my mom. And, you know, when people talk about me as a child getting high on chemotherapy and radiation, you know, while I was, me getting high during chemo and radiation because they were giving me both at the time, It's really...

32:11SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

32:41SpeakerI was over life. I was depressed. I was sad. It was a natural place to be. When I started getting what you're all calling high, I was only getting closer to normal, which to me was just what normal people experience when they're not dealing with chemo, when they're not dealing with cancer, when they're not dealing with their friends in the hospital dialing, or their parents crying, or any of the depressing shit that goes around being sick.

33:08SpeakerI think people that are normal, that are smoking weed and getting high are comparing that feeling to how kids are feeling. If you're starting five notches down and depressed and you're getting high, you may get high and not even be at normal yet. You just may be closer to somewhat happy. I think this is something cannabis has been powerfully a mood neutralizer for a long time. If you're freaking out because your car got stolen or your dog run over or some shit happened, That's beyond your control.

33:39SpeakerYou smoke a joint, you calm down and you're rational about it. But on the flip, if you're totally depressed and you're going through chemo and you smoke a joint, it brings you back to normal. It brings you back to a feeling, you know what, maybe I'll make it through this and things aren't so bad and I can cope with this and I can get through this. And really, that is so powerful.

33:59SpeakerAnd, you know, it's going to be the parents that are, Courageous enough like my mom was a long time ago to break the law and you know there's that quote going around from that little child saying I'd rather be legally alive than legally dead. And it's so true and so many of us that have gone to the point of facing death's door realize that we have nothing to lose.

34:25SpeakerYou know, when I did my THC Expo, I took a rainbow-colored ad out and I thanked the gay and lesbian community for helping pass 215. Because if it wasn't for their motivation, that we have nothing to lose motivation, we would not have... Thank you so much for joining us.

35:01SpeakerI'm not, you know, in no way cautioning what you're saying, but I used to get ridiculed all the time. People would get me up there and they'd say, oh, Todd, are you saying that cannabis cured your cancer? And I would say, no, technically I'm not. But what I am saying out loud is that cannabis helped me deal with the medication, helped me keep my appetite up, helped me sleep at night, helped me feel better about the situation, gave me an optimistic point of view.

35:24SpeakerIt did so many things for me that so many doctors would be willing to prescribe so many drugs for, the depression, the sleeplessness, the lack of appetite, the nausea, all of which I was getting out of cannabis. With cannabis changing all these elements of my life, I wouldn't have been able to deal with it. The insult to my injury is when I got the internet. I get the internet in the late 80s, early 90s, and I'm crawling around at slow speeds And what I learned, I started studying histiocytosis X, my childhood disease, because it seemed interesting to me.

36:01SpeakerAnd I started getting it in 1972, and I went through all this hellacious treatment between 72 and 79, 80, and then got it again in 86.

36:11SpeakerWell, in 86, 87, Western Medicine had this frigging epiphany that they were treating histiocytosis X too aggressively, basically as this aggressive cancer that was going to take me out, and then realizing that, oh, this might just go away on its own if we don't treat it so aggressively. So they completely reversed the way they treat children that are now born with my disease, because literally, these doctors are We're literally practicing medicine, and I suffered through the entire 70s with a compromised immune system, probably because I was getting force-fed chemo, force-fed radiation, and I mean force-fed.

36:49SpeakerIf my mother had said, no, F you, I'm going to take them out and not do this, they would have arrested her for child endangerment, because if their opinion isn't respected, they will force-feed your child chemotherapy, and then to learn post-86, oh, our bad. It was all wrong. We totally misdiagnosed you as we did every other child born through the 70s with histiocytosis X, but we didn't know better because I had what was considered an orphan disease.

37:18SpeakerSo few children get what I had that they don't even get to study it because there's not enough of this to study it on. Which is really incredible. So when I started using cannabis in 79, I always wondered if simply just getting cannabinoids in my system, natural cannabinoids from smoking joints, helped reverse what I had. I had nine tumors from 72 to 1979. And then my mom started letting me smoke her weed.

37:46SpeakerI went into spontaneous remission, they called it, from 1980 to 1986. I got it again in my left arm and I haven't had it since. I stay heavily medicated, obviously, the whole time. When you start having this conversation about All the things that cannabis is doing to alleviate a child's suffering or an adult's suffering, to bring them back up to normal. It isn't really getting high when you're going back to normal.

38:14SpeakerIt should be called normal at that point. I'm getting normal instead of I'm getting my child high because your child's not Normal when they're heaving and throwing up and freaking out and depressed and losing it and can't sleep and can't eat. That's not normal. You know what I mean? And sometimes high is closer to normal than a sick kid has ever seen in their life. And that's just something that as I sit here from the child's perspective, I have to vocalize that because I think it was harder on my parents watching me go through being sick than it was on me because I was just there being sick.

38:49SpeakerWatching them cry and feel depressed and helpless was gut-wrenching on a child, you know, and

38:58SpeakerIt's not easy going through any of this. And I mean, then to take away such a benign herb that has such a safety and effectivity record, it just to me is inhumane. And that's why for the past 20 years, I've fought for this because I think that parents like you and your daughter and my mom and me, you have a right to try to heal yourself, especially when you have gone through all of these frigging treatments time and time again, and they're not working.

39:25SpeakerThey're just not working. And I mean, at what point do we get to make up our own minds and think for ourselves? And I'm not trying to tell parents to go out there and overthink their doctors or to second guess good physicians, but get second opinions. Get other doctors involved and do study. Don't take a backseat to your child's health or your health. Learn. Become involved. Remember, a doctor was only a human being that went to school and got an education and amassed a body of opinions.

39:55SpeakerIt's really incredible. It's funny because me and Lester Grimspoon got into an argument over me had had cancer because he was studying histiocytosis X from the 80s on and said it wasn't a cancer. And I said, go back and look it up in 1972 and tell me how you would have treated it. So he went and spoke to his cancer doctor, because sadly Lester has cancer, and he came back and actually apologized to me and said, you know, Todd, I did not think to look at it from the perspective of what we knew when you had it.

40:28SpeakerI simply looked it up from what we know now. And to realize how different that is now compared to how we were treating you then, it brings me to tears that we tortured you like that with chemotherapy, radiation, and all these potentially unnecessary treatments, you know, because we thought we were helping you.

40:50NickI hear what you say and I agree with you 100%. Doctors that are treated by Kayla get questioned by us all the time. I don't even really want to publicize how many times we've caught them red handed being completely wrong. One time we actually stopped them from giving her a double dose of chemotherapy, of a chemotherapy which would have ended her life if she got another dose that day.

41:17NickAs I'm sitting here listening to you tell people, do your own research, question what you're told, seek second opinions. That's what we do and that's what we tell everybody to do because doctors do just practice and the knowledge and information changes every year. And to be honest with you, the more prolific the pharmaceutical drug industry becomes, the more prescribing and less practicing these doctors actually do. Now there's a drug for everything.

41:44NickThere's a drug for a drug for a drug for a drug. And that's how these kids are on 25 drugs. And I don't know who in their right mind will allow their kids to be on such a Lucky Charms concoction of drugs. I wouldn't. I would never. I don't care. I don't care at all. You are not going to give my kid 10 pills. I'm going to find another way to treat whatever their problem is.

42:05SpeakerI really do want to comment on that because we so casually will prescribe drugs over other drugs that would never be, and I want to make this point. The FDA has a protocol that they only allow single molecule drugs to pass through the FDA because a single molecule drug has an LD50 that is known. When you start multi-molecule drugs, you get what's called an LD50 or a lethal dose for 50% of the population that is not predictable.

42:35SpeakerAnd when you cannot predict the LD50, they can't combine the molecules. So what they do is they won't, for instance, in the AIDS cocktail, they will not combine those three drugs as a single drug and give it to a person. But what they will do is they'll write three separate prescriptions, which is really quite unfathomable because you're in a situation where we, the humans, become the testing facility that the FDA won't even use because they're really not sure what's going to happen when they start giving us really toxic drug combinations.

43:04SpeakerAnd really, the test is on us because we all have organic chemistries within our body. That's why an aspirin might work with one person. It might not work with another person's headache. So they give us the frigging drugs, and maybe your kid's going to make it through. Maybe your kid's not. And that's really how they're practicing medicine. And most of the problems that happen to us happen when we're in the hospital.

43:27SpeakerThe hospital is one of the most dangerous places to be because nurses make mistakes. Doctors make mistakes. People absolutely overdose patients all the time. And you're usually in a situation where you're too sick to even know what the fuck's going on. So you can't sit there and read your charts, although when I was a little kid I used to try to. But the point is, realiztically, we do have to figure out how to take care of ourselves.

43:50SpeakerWe do have to ask questions. But the only thing I want to mention too is that sometimes it doesn't help to go completely into the public. We're watching this woman in the Midwest now be prosecuted because her son simply talked about His mom using medical cannabis in school. They raided her, and now she's facing like 30 years in jail, which is insane. And the other side of it, I think, is I had five doctors behind me when I was being federally prosecuted.

44:18SpeakerSometimes they'll use that as an example to make an example. And there is a balance. I mean, sometimes being over the line and having a ton of attention on you only hurts you more. And what I think should always be important to the people that are trying to help children Are the children. And I totally applaud you, Brandon, for having the courage to step out and take this story.

44:40SpeakerI mean, you've seen the culture high. We talked about Jason and Jayden. You know, parents like you are super important, but I don't want parents to think that if they go get a few interviews on the newspaper, they're automatically going to be protected from some redneck zealot sheriff down the street because they're certainly not going to be. What they need is the support of their pediatricians. They need the support of their family physicians.

45:02SpeakerThey really need to talk to their radiologists and people that are prescribing these drugs and get them educated, get them on their side. 20 years ago, we started, when Art Brooding started a thing called MediWeed in Holland, and it was to get the coffee shops to sell cannabis to people like me that were carrying around medical cards for half price. And the reason really was is because we were trying to build a bridge between the people that were using medical cannabis and their doctors, and the way we tried to do that with what was called the Base A Day or the Coffee Shop Consumers Union in English was by getting People motivated like, hey, if you go talk to your doctor, you can save money on your pot.

45:43SpeakerAnd people are like, oh, okay, well, then I'll go talk to my doctor. And people in Holland started getting doctor's notes. And that started the communication between patient and doctor. And that really built the bridge of understanding because Thank you for joining us.

46:16SpeakerThank you for watching.

46:26SpeakerBut I will. They're freaking nothing but politicians in a way. They're store-bought political jockeys that do nothing but hand out prescription drugs for companies that show up and shell them money to do it. And I mean there's so much absolute interference from the pharmaceutical companies to promote their drugs Over health, over well-being of the patient, over what's right for the patient. They just want to sail. So many doctors are so quick to prescribe anything.

47:00SpeakerThey won't prescribe cannabis because there's no kickback for cannabis. There's only political misery if they support you and your decision to self-medicate. It's just something we've got to tell people, as frustrating as it is. Dr. Yeah.

47:20Jeff ChurchThanks for telling us your story, bro. That's, I mean, it's huge. I mean, like, I don't know, like, just the fact that they're trying to get you to do these immunization shots now, mandatory here in California, your kid can't even go to school, is pretty shitty. That they're just putting things on you that they don't even know what it is. You know, and, yeah, I mean... I applaud Brandon and Todd because you guys, you know, you guys are proud you've gone through it.

47:52Jeff ChurchYou just told us your story. You know, I mean, it brings tears to my eyes. Brandon, you're going through it. It brings tears to my eyes. I mean, you know, it's a hard one. It's a hard one to, you know, to be able to come out and say these things that you guys are saying, you know. I mean, Brandon, you're You're putting your livelihood on the line.

48:14Jeff ChurchYou moved to a great place, you live in a great place, but you still put your livelihood on the line to help your daughter. Yeah, I mean, you could move anywhere, you'd still do it, you know? You're helping, you're doing the thing. I mean, like, cannabis has been a part of my life, you know, since I was like 13 years old, and I haven't used it medically, but I know that Exactly as it says, there's a normal, there's like a depressive, you know, and then there's the good.

48:50Jeff ChurchYou know, cannabis has been my savior since I was a kid, you know, and I could have played soccer professionally, instead I went professionally in cannabis, you know, and it's, this is, I don't know, cannabis is the future, it's a great thing, I'm glad to be in the industry, and like I said earlier, it's There's anything I can do for any of you dudes. You know? You can find me through Mark.

49:18Jeff ChurchHe knows how to get a hold of me, or Bubble Man, or... It's easy to get a hold of me. Aaron at DNAgenics.com.

49:28SpeakerYou know, Brandon, I also want to say thanks on behalf of the July Hill, because, you know, from my perspective, my mother was a hero, and... It's parents like you that will think for yourselves that, you know, it might have been my mom saved my ass, you know, I mean, to be truthful. And if it wasn't for her having the courage to stand up and try something different, I don't know where I would have been.

49:52SpeakerToday, if I would have been today is a great way to put it. So, you know, thank you from my perspective because I know from watching my mom and everyone go through it, I always felt like it was hotter on you all than it was on me.

50:14SpeakerAre we ready for a little bit of science? Lay the science down for us, Mark. Hi, everybody. Greetings from Chicago. I wanted to go back when we were talking before about THC versus CBD, just to put a little grounding on that. These molecules bind to receptors that are found in our bodies. Everyone knows that the endocannabinoid system exists, and it's a system that exists in our body that uses...

50:48SpeakerWe have a lot of chemicals and receptor expression to modulate a lot of biological function that the pharmaceutical companies were late to embrace, but be that as it may, all of them without exception have developed molecules, non-phytocannabinoids, that look like drug molecules that bind to these receptors, so they understand the importance And so like CB1, which is where THC acts on, is highly expressed throughout the central nervous system and in the brain.

51:26SpeakerIt's one of the most highly expressed receptors in the brain. When you think about a receptor, think about a lock. And the molecules, the phytocannabinoids, and so the keys fit inside the lock. And there's two types of keys. There's a key that opens the lock and there's a key that closes the lock. And those are called agonists and antagonists. And so the myriad of biological function that these things attenuate is just enormous.

51:59SpeakerThey start all kinds of processes in the cell that's responsible for many different things.

52:19SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

52:42SpeakerThank you for watching.

53:04SpeakerSo, yes, CB1 is extremely important, and that's where THC binds, and certainly with diseases that afflict the central nervous system, you would think that, again, it's basically, it's the medicine that's in the plant that we need, which is THC, not just CBD. There's your science.

53:23NickI find that THC is not just medicinal, but it's nutritionally necessary. When you take a vitamin like vitamin D, A, B, or C out of your diet for an extended period of time, you become sick. Not immediately, but slowly. It's a cumulative illness. Your systems start failing. Your nutrition declines. Your immune system falls. When you put the missing vitamin or mineral back into your diet, You start to notice an immediate change.

53:57NickAnd that's what happens with every single person I've ever met that consumes cannabis. It's like their body's thankful that they've gotten this missing, highly important nutritional supplement back into it. We have an endocannabinoid system, all of us, every one of us. And when I tell people all use is medicinal, it's because it's the only medicine you can recreate with and not die from. And so when human beings are told drugs are bad, weed is a drug, don't use it, you're actually robbing yourself of a very vital nutritional supplement in your body, a source of health And it leads you down a path of illness.

54:39NickAnd I think that that's kind of where the pharmaceutical companies have gone after figuring out what THC is and how it responds inside the body and what exactly it does. I think they've made a whole line of drugs to kind of treat the side effects that comes from a cannabinoid deficiency. And so I tell everybody, if you don't want to smoke it and get high, juice it.

55:03NickGet that THC into your system one way or another. You don't have to be high to be healthy. But if you like to get high, smoke it with me, you know?

55:11SpeakerHey, everybody, can I blow your minds? So back, when I asked my mom how she learned about this, can you hear me? Yeah, we can hear you. My mom told me she read about it in a good housekeeping magazine while she was literally sitting in a doctor's waiting room. And I always thought that was crazy as shit. So... I'm cynical on everything, so I have to look everything up.

55:36SpeakerBut I later went and found the February 1978 issue of Good Housekeeping that would have been sitting in a doctor's waiting room in 1979 when my mother was sitting there bored. And I'd love to share with you this passage from the Family Doctor column, no less. Marijuana as medicine? Was the question mark? This is, of course everybody, February 1978. As research proceeds, scientists are finding that the major active ingredient in marijuana, tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, may be highly valuable in treating such conditions as glaucoma, asthma, or even terminal cancer.

56:17SpeakerSome 3 million Americans suffer from glaucoma and eye disease that can lead to blindness. Early drug treatments, usually in eye drops, can often reduce fluid pressure in the eye and arrest the disease. Now, Sidney Cohen, MD, of the University of California, Los Angeles School of Medicine, reports that small doses of THC have a pressure-lowering effect in glaucoma as great or greater than any other known agent. Asthma sufferers, too.

56:45SpeakerAsthma sufferers. May benefit from THC used as an aerosol spray to open up ear tubes. Hey, did you hear that, Rob? That might be a business plan for the future. In the lungs and stop osmetic and wheezing, says Dr. Cohen. Unfortunately, the THC also causes a marijuana-like, quote, high many patients find unpleasant. But new THC derivatives may have less of this undesirable side effect. 1978.

57:17SpeakerAnd we're having this conversation in 2015 on something called an internet and doctors are still pretending to not know what they're talking about. Jesus. Yeah, near 40 years ago.

57:33Jeff ChurchCrazy.

57:36SpeakerGood housekeeping is cutting edge medical information, guys. Hey. Now, hey.

57:43NickI have a question though. What is this internet thing you speak of?

57:48SpeakerIt's a lot of tubes, man. It's all these big tubes. They go invisibly into my phone.

57:54BubblemanYours too.

57:58BubblemanThat's pretty wild. 1978. Good housekeeping. Amazon.com, buddy.

58:04SpeakerWhat's up? I couldn't believe I could find it.

58:10Etienne FontanAnd here's the object I'm reading here in Forbes. The richest newcomer to the Forbes 2015 list of America's richest family comes in at $14 billion. The Sackler family, which owns Stanford, Connecticut's based Purdue Pharmaceutical, flew under the radar when Forbes launched its initial list of wealthiest families in July 2014. But this year they cracked the top 20 edging out the storied families of the Bushes, the Mellons, and the Rockefellers.

58:39Etienne FontanHow did the Sacklers build the 16th largest fortune in the country? They showed it to the makers of the most popular controversial opioid of the 21st century, OxyContin.

58:52SpeakerOxy's, Oxy's, let's bang Oxy's man, it'll all be good. 14 Bailworths? Yep. Getting rich stuff. Getting people addicted.

59:02NickDrugs are valuable, man. Look at Capone and Noriega. Those guys are million billionaires. You know, same thing.

59:10Etienne FontanThey've made $35 billion since releasing it in 95.

59:15SpeakerA government-approved poison brought to you by the pharmaceutical companies, paid for by your health insurance. Yeah. That's just horrible. Money you can't give. Money, money, money, money. It's all about the money, man.

59:31BubblemanNow, you know what? It can't even be all about the money because they print money. It's just part of a system they emplace upon us. I think it might be even like when Brandon was talking about being at the hospital and having to be on your toes while literally the people who are supposed to be helping you could potentially, accidentally, or who knows, execute your child. He just literally told a story about them almost giving her a lethal dose of

59:55SpeakerThe pharmaceutical companies are in business for profits. They're a for-profit business. They have to return profits to their shareholders, and the way they do that is they create customers for life. School to prison, pipe room. Life. I see my father-in-law, I see my dad take You know, like, literally handfuls of pills. Dave, has anyone ever looked at the entourage effect between all these pills? He takes a pill for this, a pill for that, a pill for that.

1:00:25SpeakerYou're taking all these pills. What the fuck, dude? It's poisoning people. Burdening our healthcare system.

1:00:34NickIt's definitely pretty insane. It's what I call the pediatrician to prison pipeline. You go to your kid's pediatrician with them. They give them their first dose of an opiate-based drug. Ten years from there, they're going to try heroin. They're going to try weed. They're going to try alcohol. They're going to try cocaine. They're going to try meth because all these kids are trying to get that same feeling back when they're six years old and they broke their damn arm and they got given that marking.

1:01:03NickChasing the Dragon from six years old on. You know, that happens all the time. A lot of the people that I know that are my age that are in rehab or kicking drugs, I have a lot of friends that got caught up in the methademic here in Oregon. Meth is extremely bad here because all the farming communities, you can find everything you need to cook that damn drug right in your neighborhood.

1:01:25NickAnd so, you know, a lot of people have fallen victim to that drug and I talk to them and they all tell me the same thing. Well, I was on Adderall when I was a kid, and it felt just like that. Well, I was on Ritalin when I was a kid, and it felt just like that. It felt like home. It felt familiar. It made me feel good.

1:01:41NickDr. Ritalin and amphetamine.

1:01:43SpeakerDr. Ritalin is extremely similar structurally. I was on it when I was a kid. I was a 90s kid. Dr. They are almost identical. You would see the same clinical effects in patients, especially children, if you feed them Ritalin and you feed them any of the other amphetamines.

1:02:01NickYeah, I call it a bathtub crank without the impurities. I mean, really it is, too. They've taken, pharmaceuticalized the street drug. And these kids that are on heroin, 16 years old, shooting heroin, what happened to them? They're the ones that got given that OxyContin when they were 10 years old, you know? They call it the pediatrician to prison pipeline. They give them a drug, it's pharmaceuticalized to get some height.

1:02:25NickAll they want to do is get high. That's what humans want to do. They want to get happy. Getting high is happiness.

1:02:32SpeakerOr I want to say again, getting high is not always getting happy, guys. Getting high is getting normal. For a depressed person that's feeling down, when you're saying they're getting high, it's almost accusing them of like happy time, and it's not. It's like when you're fucking down and you're thinking about killing yourself because you're dying of cancer or you're going through hell, it's not going to get you high.

1:02:51SpeakerIt's going to get you normal, and I wish people would look at that. Getting high is the physiological effect of opening up the CB1 receptor and turning it on. It's just a side effect. The high that we feel basically means that CB1 receptors are being turned on and open. That's it. Period. That's what it is.

1:03:15NickIt is a high. If you're that low in depression, it's getting you high, man. It's lifting you up out of that spiral. It's lifting you out of that depression. It's a high. It's a very valuable high. All of these drugs, every one of them, the worst drug of all gives you the most beautiful high, it said. And that's why it's so dangerous. It's all a matter of protecting our children.

1:03:38NickFrom exposure that sets them up for the chance to experience the harder drugs later in life. They're going to be accepting to it if it's promoted in different ways to them when they're young. How can you tell them stay off drugs and send them to D.A.R.E. when you're giving them pills for a psychological disorder that their doctor says they have? It's hard to combat that when you're a parent.

1:04:03NickYou have these medical professionals They have a license that says they're smarter than the average human being, whether or not they are, and they question your ability as a parent, and if you fight back, what do they do? They turn you in and get your kid taken and give them that drug anyway.

1:04:19SpeakerTell them, sir. Yeah, I just showed an interesting article from a visitor I have in my room that was from, what, 2007, that showed, well, here. Welcome to Hash Church, Carol. This is Carol. I want to say something. Go ahead, go ahead, add this, this is very interesting.

1:04:41SpeakerAll I was going to say is, you know, I just don't want to, you know, I understand what you're saying totally when you say get high, you know, and I just don't, I feel like, what I guess where I'm coming from is that it's compared, you know, when people say, oh, they're getting high, it's like they're celebrating or something, and man, You know, I know from the perspective of being sick that, you know, I'm not trying to get high and celebrate.

1:05:02SpeakerI'm just trying to get not feeling so low, you know what I mean? And that's where, you know, I'm not bashing on the idea of feeling better. I think it's an important element to healing because your mental state and wanting to get better is so important. Thank you for watching.

1:05:50SpeakerYou know, and I don't like the prohibition is basically using against us that we're trying to get our kids high and shit when we're really just trying to get our kids, you know... To not feel the ravages of their disease or to not suffer, really, because we're trying to alleviate suffering, and that's really a lot of what cannabis does. It alleviates the suffering of those who use it.

1:06:11SpeakerAnd, you know, Aaron, you said that you've never taken it medically, but, you know, Dennis Perrone caught mega shit for saying in People Magazine when this passed, when Prop 215 passed, that he truthfully felt that all marijuana use was medical use. And, you know, when I stopped and I really thought deeply of it, because I have friends... That don't smoke, don't drink. And, you know, they're well-adjusted, healthy people that don't have whatever, their desire is to get higher, whatever.

1:06:39SpeakerBut, you know, how many of us self-medicate with cannabis as opposed to go and see our doctor about our medical condition or our sadness or anything? We just smoke a joint and get through our day, you know what I mean? And in many ways, I think it is a medical device, if you will, if that makes sense.

1:06:58Jeff ChurchTotally. I mean, it perfectly makes sense, Todd. I mean, although I might have not used cannabis medically, I'm still using it medically, you know. It's a medicine. It definitely does, like, on a stressful day or, you know, when I was younger, I would, you know, I would have leg pains because I would play sports and cannabis would You know, I wouldn't think about my leg pain or this or that when I would smoke a joint.

1:07:30Jeff ChurchYou know, I mean, it's been the, I guess it's been my only medicine. I don't take any pills. I very rarely ever drink, although I did get totally trashed at the Cannabis Cup, and I don't remember a lot. But other than that, it's just cannabis.

1:07:53SpeakerYou know, I want to say that I got lucky when I was a kid, and you know, when I was 12, they gave me a motorcycle again, and I was wearing a helmet and bouncing around trails, and my spine is fused, my first five vertebrae, and it was causing me a lot of strain on my neck and a lot of pain that was like new pain. And when I went and asked my pediatrician about it, He joked with me, and I asked him for some medication for my neck, and he said, no, you're just going to become mentally or physically addicted to any of the opiates I can prescribe you.

1:08:23SpeakerYou're going to have to learn how to deal with it. And I was like, well, what should I do? And he was like, stretch, and maybe you could try smoking your mom's pot again. And he was joking at the time, but he wasn't joking about not wanting to give me opiates because he was afraid of what it would do to me because I was fucking 12. You know, what would that have let me down a road of?

1:08:43SpeakerAnd I'm so glad that he made that decision and basically made that joke in jest, you know, go smoke your mom's pot, because really I think that he put me on a much healthier path.

1:08:58NickMichaela's first oncologist called us criminal when she found out that we had been giving her cannabis oil, and they tried to kick us out of her current hospital and send us to another one, and we refused, and we demanded that we get another oncologist to take over her case. And mind you, this was the head of pediatric oncology that was her oncologist. She called us criminal. And so we got a new oncologist, and he...

1:09:28NickHe became very aware of the high quality of life that she was living during therapy, and he actually started sending other kids to the clinic where Michaela got the card. He's asked not to be named in this, but he sent about five kids now, and that, in my opinion, is so highly amazing, there's no other way to look at it but, A doctor, an oncologist had his mind changed by one little girl and it saved the quality of life of at least five other patients from him.

1:10:02NickAnd we're seeing this more and more and more as these kids come out. We got Landon Riddle, we got Jason and David, you know, we got, what's the other one? I can't think of all the rest of them right off hand. We have Roar. We have all these kids who are telling these stories and each one of them possesses a very different, strikingly different disease that has affected the quality of life that they live so dramatically that their parents can't even work a normal job.

1:10:27NickAnd this plant, this oil, when it's given to them, it changes everything and life comes back full circle for the whole family, not just the patient, not just the parents, but everybody involved in their life. The school teachers used to get yelled at by the autistic kids and beat up and the entire class being disrupted. Thirty children in one room learning math. Their whole day of education is disrupted when one kid acts out and creates such a violent scene.

1:10:57NickAnd so when that kid comes back to school high on weed oil, and he sits there and he learns math instead of acting out, doesn't that benefit now 31 plus people all in one moment? I mean, you've got to think of the whole picture here. It's not just the one person getting high and helping themselves. It's an entire community of people that's surrounding these kids who are feeling the same benefits regardless if they see that that's what it is or not.

1:11:27SpeakerIt takes a community, you're right. And you know what, though? Doctors are not closed-minded people. When they see and they experience things like their experience with you and Michaela, it resonates reality. And we wouldn't have so much support for medical cannabis if it was bullshit. The reality is that people are having their own personal experiences All over the world that are similar to mine and your daughters and yours being a parent and they're realizing that, you know what, this is real.

1:11:56SpeakerAnd we don't know that much about how much it can help us yet. We don't know all the benefits it can do. But from what we've already experienced in now 30, 40 years, I mean, I'm over here reading a good housekeeping from 1978. You know, 40 years ago we were tuned into this. We just need now to communicate this to our doctors, to our friends, to the people we know around us that can benefit.

1:12:19SpeakerBecause once we do, the truth will get into their heads. You know, Dr. Lester Grinspoon said that marijuana per se is not addictive, but learning about it quickly becomes.

1:12:34NickAnd you know what? You're right. When you say doctors don't have closed minds, they don't. What they have is a need for a living. They went to school and paid $80,000 to get a license to practice medicine, and they are aware of cannabis. They are aware of all these different drugs and what it does, but they're also aware of Supporting cannabis will lose them their license. That's losing their livelihood, their career path.

1:13:01NickIf they went to school and accumulated all of that debt from the university and then they lose their license to practice medicine, how on earth are they going to afford to pay all of that debt back? And you know, I can't blame them for thinking about number one when it comes to a parent saying, no, I don't want to take that drug. I want to give my kid.

1:13:20NickThey're going to support that. I don't blame them because if it came to me losing $150,000 a year every year for the rest of my life, I'd be pretty concerned about that too. Just saying.

1:13:31SpeakerYou know, not to sound weird, but most doctors, too, I mean, they're not taught nutrition. They're not taught preventive medicine. They're not taught health and wellness. They're not taught exercise. You know, and I had a hard time taking advice from bald, fat guys who looked like they were fucking two steps from death themselves. And the reality is... They are nothing more, I hate to say it, and I'm not trying to demean the doctors of the world, but pharmaceutical pill jockeys.

1:13:55SpeakerThey learn how to prescribe something for a condition. They don't learn how to fix conditions. It bugs me the hell out that once you get sick, they keep you sick because they're literally practicing medicine on you. They're really not sure how to get it right, so they just keep giving you stuff until hopefully it works.

1:14:11Etienne FontanThey even call it that.

1:14:13SpeakerThey even call it practicing. I think that, you know, when I fucking, when it hit me that I had to take that word so seriously, it blew my mind. They're not kidding people. They are practicing.

1:14:26BubblemanJesus. Yeah, that's a twisted perspective to look at it from. It's just, it's a topsy-turvy world, as Kid Asai says.

1:14:35SpeakerThings just seem to be... So I was a little kid, and my doctor wrote a sentence for my school. It said, the ecology of Todd's disease is unknown. And I was a little child. I said, hold on one second. Okay. He said the ethology of their disease is unknown. And I had to ask, what does ethology mean? And he says the origin of disease in children. And I went, does that mean that you adults don't know why I'm sick?

1:15:08SpeakerAnd he said, that's right. And I went, oh my God, what am I going to do? You know about as much about my disease as I do?

1:15:17NickThe root of all diseases is mitochondria failure. That's what it is.

1:15:29NickI said the root of all disease is failure of the mitochondria. It's a cell inside the human body that produces our energy and fuels all systems, everything. And when your mitochondria fail you, you begin to fail. One thing that cannabis does is stimulate the production of new healthy mitochondria. Imagine that.

1:15:52BubblemanAnd also, it's also the convincing the mitochondria to almost commit suicide in the cancerous cells, correct?

1:16:01NickOh, no. The whole cell. Mitochondria is just one small cell. Cancer Ken, apoptosis is what you're talking about. Apoptosis is programd cell death. Every cell has the mechanism for apoptosis. Cancer cells usually do not possess that mechanism, especially in leukemia. What leukemia actually is is it's not really cancer. Everybody thinks of cancer as this tumorous mass growing inside of the body, but what leukemia is is actually more of a form of blood poisoning.

1:16:33NickIt's when your bone marrow produces cells that are immature and not fully developed, and it pumps them out, and what happens is the immature cells do not possess the ability to die. They don't commit apoptosis, if you will, and so they build up and they circulate, and your body stores them in places like Your mediastinal cavity here in your chest, and you get this big liquid mucus-like mass of cancer cells, but it's really just your blood cells.

1:17:02NickMichaela's were T cells. That's your immune system cell. And so she had this overwhelming mass in her chest the size of a basketball of T cells that wouldn't die. And so basically, you don't die from cancer. It was suffocating her. It was causing pleural effusion. It was trapping fluid around her heart. Thank you for watching.

1:17:43NickThank you for joining us.

1:17:56NickAnd that's where you get sick and you get the sweats and the fevers and shakes and the exhaustion when you're curing your leukemia is because all those toxins are now flowing through your body and you have to process and waste them like every other toxin. And it can be very overwhelming on the system. And so that's one of the reasons that leukemia is so easily treated with cannabis oil is because it's not a tumor.

1:18:23NickIt's just a bunch of cells built up inside of your body. With normal cancer, if you want to call it normal, with standard everyday cancers that are tumor masses, it really takes more than just THC. That's where you do need some CBD in there to stop the spread and the metastasizing of that cancer. It's like putting up a wall and then your THC is your mortars launching over the wall and destroying the other army.

1:18:49NickYou put up a wall to stop the spread and then you bring in the guns. And it works. It just takes much longer than it does with leukemias. And I found in my research that immune system cancers like leukemia, breast cancer, some forms of testicular cancer, those types of cancers are the ones that are so easily treated with cannabis soil. And it's weird because the immune system is what is most affected by the disease process.

1:19:20NickAnd so Cannabis comes in and basically stimulates your immune system and regulates it and moderates it. And I think that that's part of our disease process is all the constant bombardments from things that cause us to be diseased. Our food, our air, our water, our toothpaste, shampoo, all these things are full of chemicals and all these things stimulate our immune system to go out of whack. We're constantly fighting all these different things that we shouldn't have to.

1:19:48NickAnd that exhausts us and allows cancer to grow. We normally treat our own cancer with our own immune system. We all have it. It's just being fought every day inside of our body by our immune cells. But when you overburden your body with toxins, you can't fight those cancers anymore. Your body takes what's most immediately affecting it. And that's what we're consuming on our own. We're putting this food and stuff into our body.

1:20:12NickAnd that's where that disease process really takes off and starts. So not only should you Start using cannabis daily. You should stop drinking soda. You should promote an organic, nutritionally balanced, healthy lifestyle. Stop smoking. Stop taking illicit drugs if you're one of the people who do. Don't consume alcohol regularly. It's not just a lifestyle change as well. If you don't commit to a lifestyle change, you cannot fully commit to healing yourself.

1:20:44NickCannabis won't do it on its own. You still have to be a mature, Thank you for joining us today.

1:21:11NickWe have a giant task that we have set before you to change who you are and what you've done. What you've done so far got you to where you are now and it hasn't worked, so it's time to start something new. Work on your whole body well-being. Take whole plant medicine. Find something that makes you happy. Recurate with something that gets you healthy. That's my advice to everybody.

1:21:35SpeakerI like you even more now, honestly, because when I tell people how I got better, nobody wants to hear, oh, you're a vegetarian now? Oh, you exercise? Oh, you started studying martial arts and doing yoga? Oh, you take care of yourself? Oh, you're physically fit? Oh, all this stuff matters? Oh, I'm too busy to be any of that. That is a hassle. I'll just go see my doctor and get sick and see what they treat me with, because we're all fucked up right now.

1:22:01SpeakerI would argue that everyone that was born in the 20th century that literally ate food, hate to break it to you, is malnourished because in order for all your food to have long shelf lives and preservation, it's been homogenized, pasteurized, heated up. They've tried to do everything they can to make the corporation safe from any liability of any problems. In doing so, they've destroyed essential fatty acids.

1:22:25SpeakerAnd if you don't know about EFA's people listening, go read the chapter in Jack Carver's book, The Info Wears No Clothes, or pick up Dr. Udo Erasmus' book, Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill, because he goes into a long explanation about why we've been eating the wrong fats in our diet because they were cheap and easy and they basically... We've preserved our food and the shelf life of it so that corporations could get the most amount of profits from that box of pasta or whatever it was they were selling you, gallon of milk, what have you, and they've made a lot of this stuff nutritionally deplete because now that we know we need EFAs in our diet, we're realizing we're not getting them in our diet because they're not in anything but Thank you so much for being here.

1:23:28NickI've been a vegetarian for going on five years. I eat primarily all organic, whole fruits and vegetables with a very rare shot of processed crap in there. I mean, I'm human. I still enjoy me a Snickers bar every now and again, but I'll tell you what, it's maybe once a month. In the time of my dietary changes, I've noticed the most physiological, beneficial things happen to me over the past four years than I ever have in my life.

1:23:54NickAnd I've always been an athletic. I played football, I played basketball, baseball, you know, I skateboarded, snowboarded, all of that. And I was always in a state of Not quite being where I wanted to be. When I stopped consuming meat, and I'm sorry to anybody who listens in who may disagree with this, but when I stopped consuming meat, I felt more human than I ever have before.

1:24:14NickMy digestion picked up, my mental stability was even more clarified than ever before, and I feel like it's because I didn't waste all of my energy and time digesting another sentient being's flesh, if you will. But Not only that, I healed my ulcers, my stress is gone, and I think that 90% of that comes from not just not eating meat, but whole lifestyle vegetable, you know, directive eating.

1:24:41NickAnd so that's why I try to tell people that. I tell people eat hemp seeds every single day. Eat them. Eat a handful. Eat coconut oil every single day. There's a reason they give it coconut oil and standard diet regimens for ketogenic diets for seizure patients because it's the most efficiently used source of fuel for your body. Those are the EFAs he's talking about. Those are the omega-3s.

1:25:03NickThose are the essential fatty acids that we're all missing. Mix that with hemp and cannabis, coconut oil, hemp and cannabis, and you have basically your whole diet's needs in one shot right there. It's so easy to do. It really is. It promotes a healthy lifestyle and goes right along with the culture of cannabis. I mean, it's all about getting high, getting happy, getting healthy. You know, eating good is its own high.

1:25:26NickIt's its own happy and its own healthy. You can be a foodie and still eat dank delicious food. I cook food for people that's completely vegetarian, tacos, nachos, lasagnas, all that stuff. They never even realize there's no meat in it. So it's whatever. You know what's also awesome about food? You can infuse every single food with hash. All of it. Every last bit of it is such a good spice to use.

1:25:52NickI infuse so many different things. I just have to give a warning to the bystanders who might be trying to eat it who aren't expecting the high that may be coming from it later. But I'll tell you right now, tacos, if you put some bubble hash in some tacos, you've never tasted anything so good. It enhances the cumin like crazy.

1:26:12BubblemanYeah, dude, I agree 100% with everything all you guys have said. I got turned on to eating hemp in the mid-90s and have also been doing it on the regular and have been a vegetarian for almost 25 years. I never turned back. I can't really jump on the... I grew up in where I am right now. I'm back in my hometown of Winnipeg, Manitoba, and I grew up with a very sort of meat and potatoes diet, like a lasagna would have been mostly meat with a little bit of noodles and some cheese.

1:26:41BubblemanAnd also, I just can't even... I mean, I even had a vegan diet for a while, and then we went a little more hardcore when I had a raw food cafe, which was really incredible. I mean, that food almost got you high. It does. Yeah, it gets you high. You can get high off the food, depending on how quick you eat it. So I'm all about... When I talk about the idea of...

1:27:08BubblemanWhen I opened my gallery back in 2003...

1:27:12BubblemanI didn't want it to be, like, I wanted it to be a high-end place for people who appreciated cannabis to come, and I didn't want to offer them a Coke and a bag of chips. I thought, like, we're better than that. Like, let's do 100% raw, vegan, organic, and macrobiotic, so all of this food was actually grown within, I think, 100 miles of the actual cafe. So that you're not spending a ton of, you know, like, oh, these coconuts are, you know, super raw and vegan.

1:27:38BubblemanIt's like, yeah, but you flew them over on a jet airplane, so it sort of, like, defeats the purpose, which was where I was at when I had the gallery. For whatever reason, it was a fun little thing for a while. I'm just more vegetarian now. Eat the odd piece of fish and feel healthy because of it. Keep active. Keep blood flow in the body, you know, like all these things, skateboarding and snowboarding and Voting, wakeboarding, and wake skating, and biking, and a gazillion different ways to stay active.

1:28:09BubblemanAnd I kind of try to promote that lifestyle through Bubble Man's World, really showing people that there's more than sitting around playing video games or whatever to puffing and enjoying cannabis. And that's really kind of how Hash Church was born as well, out of Bubble Man's World. I should welcome Tony V in the house. Looks like you're in heaven there on the Adirondack chairs.

1:28:41BubblemanGot the mutey on, eh? I guess I could have unmuted it, brother.

1:28:45TonyYeah, bro. How you guys doing?

1:28:50BubblemanDoing very good, man. Doing very good. Been a little bit trying here on my end in Winnipeg today. My computer is a little bit of a... Well, it's a little bit of a piece of shit, but hopefully it'll continue and allow Hash Church to thrive. We're only an hour and a half in, and God, it started quick. Brandon came in so early. Well, thank you for coming in so early, Brandon, and sharing your story, and we hope to get you back on Hash Church another time for sure.

1:29:18BubblemanBeautifully well-spoken, passionate individual, and we will talk again, my friend.

1:29:26NickHey, thanks everybody for having me on. We'll set up another time because Michaela's still sleeping after the long Fourth of July night, but she really did want to wake up and say hello. So I'm passing on a hello to everybody from her, and you'll see her again soon.

1:29:40SpeakerThanks, buddy. Take care, y'all. Thanks, Brandon. Have a good day, bud.

1:29:45BubblemanSo yeah, Brandon was just sharing his story very early on with us, Tony, of, of course, his daughter, Brave Michaela. And so Hash Church has been going strong for an hour and a half. It really started like ATN showed up who always shows up first. He's like my savior. He shows up and I don't have to be talking to myself because that's super awkward while I'm trying to send you guys all messages and links to get in.

1:30:09BubblemanSo welcome Tony and his buddy there.

1:30:12TonyYeah, this is Matt. You probably know him on Instagram as Straight Concentrated.

1:30:18BubblemanAh, yes, Mr. Matt Armstrong. Welcome. Sir?

1:30:25TonyWe were listening to the show earlier. It was really good information. And I actually, the start of that concept that you're talking about with the right types of fats in combination is how I started with Prana. I went from coconut oil and moved a little bit beyond that because coconut oil, believe it or not, it's not hypoallergenic. So Thank you for joining us.

1:31:05TonyYou know, fractaling off plant fats is also important, kind of like how you clean, how Horatio is cleaning D-Limonene and things like that. The same thing happens with certain types of fats, and so you can get higher grades of different types of combination of plant fats, and they come in classifications of C8s and 10s and 11s, 12s, and eventually you get to a point where You can get a plant fat that the body absorbs at a 99% rate that's hypoallergenic and can offer tremendous delivery values on a nutritional level.

1:31:43TonySo I agree and subscribe to everything you guys are saying about the combination of plant fats and nutrition with cannabinoids and or... I think it's a wonderful thing. It's a great synergy that happens.

1:32:01SpeakerTony, have you heard of people using medium chain triglycerides as a substitute? Because I found it an iffy subject. Everyone was like, yeah, well, you know, it's the main ingredient in coconut oil, so it's better. But when I looked it up, it seemed to be missing key acids that come from coconut oil. It seemed to be like a byproduct more than a better product.

1:32:27TonyYeah, like I said, you have to do combinations. That's what, you know, coconut oil is unstable. It's not going to absorb. I look at it as, if you're looking at gasoline, coconut oil would be like 87% unleaded. MCT would be like a 91. And then you can get it, yeah, and then you can get it to a 99%. But coconut is only one type of plant fat.

1:32:52TonySo you could use other types of plants, different types of combinations of that. So you could pull that. And you can refine it and then you can combine all of them. That's kind of what I'm doing. So there's good things with coconut oil. I have nothing wrong with it. It's a great thing for at home. But it will change its state. It's a little unstable. It can separate too.

1:33:24SpeakerIt's always what I've seen in things like panic caps that over storage periods they can look quite manky and unappealing over time and that's kind of why I've never done capsules and I'm like I'll look at that phase when I can study it properly but I guess it was the coconut oil being so many types of fats at once and they're all coming in different states.

1:33:51TonyAnd coconut oil can be, like, if you want to look at it as de-waxed coconut oil, that's, you can get, you can do that with those plant fats. Just the same thing you're doing with the limonene, you know, there's a refinement process to anything. So, I think that's just as important. But you had asked me some questions about that THCA on Instagram, and so... You know, let's put it in perspective because, you know, 99% dry sieved, when it's done right, you're going to have THCA.

1:34:26TonyYou won't have pure THCA because you've got a little bit of cellulose and things that are in the way. But we, honestly, last night it was kind of Fourth of July. A little ridiculous. A little ridiculous. And we have like a home hydraulic press that we heat up. That we've been doing just to kind of demonstrate the difference between a pneumatic and a hydraulic because a lot of people don't understand that if you're using a pneumatic then you don't get a gradient incremental control over your pressure.

1:34:59TonyAnd if you're not using digital heat, then you're not being able to dial in heat and pressure in a gradient incremental release or compression. So pneumatic is slammed together. That's why a lot of people, you get one shot, you slam it together, you blow out your bags or your screens. And you don't get to like gently ease it in. Kind of like when you take a hand press and you're holding it.

1:35:27TonyAnd like when I take a big chunk of hash, I hold it and I gently start pressing it in, gently more and more. And then I push it on the edge of the corner. By the time you're over it, you're just sitting on it. By the time you're over it, you're sitting on it. So same concept. So we actually took what we used to do a long time ago, a friend from Cali Labs, He had THC-A in its powder form.

1:35:49TonyIs it still sitting there? Yeah, I'll grab one. So THC-A, odorless, colorless, looks very similar to your THC-A. It was made by hydrocarbon, and then he had separated, kind of did a weird, like, he started with one product, hydrocarbon extract, and he broke down what he's calling turk juice and THC-A and And this CBD consistency. I don't know how pure the CBD is. It's pretty good. Todd still got it up on the macro.

1:36:23TonyIt's so pretty and it's kind of windy out here. So he's going to put a picture up of it from the other side here in a little bit. Okay. So it was pure, but we decided to take that with CBD oil with some of the turk juice he had. All of it was hydrocarbon extracted. And put it through some screens and then hydraulically press it out into this like... Multiplication.

1:36:47TonyMultiplication of like crazy clear bubbly, waffly, stained glass. Bubbles. Yeah, it was crazy. So, it's just, that was the picture I posted and that's why it was yellow because the temperature was at like 400. 400, yeah. Yeah, that. It was like 400 at a hydraulic press, so it changed color. Slightly yellow. So it's kind of like almost in its activation stage. Slightly activating THCA with a little bit of turps in the CV.

1:37:16TonyNo turp degradation from the 400 degrees. So I mean it was just not enough time at that heat point to do anything.

1:37:23SpeakerYou need more activated rosin.

1:37:25TonyIt's good for you though. You need that activation. However, I still think the flower rosin is insane. We did We had a 23, 22% yield yesterday. On the green crack, there was a 23 or 22% yield. Wade at 3.4 going in and then 2.2 coming out.

1:37:52SpeakerAnd it was gone just about as fast as last night. It didn't last very long.

1:37:57Etienne FontanBut it was also amazing how the flavor and the scent was still there. That was also because that...

1:38:05SpeakerWhat's the closest thing you can get to actually smoking the flower but taking all the other side of it out of your lungs, you know?

1:38:10TonyHere it is right here. Here's a section of it. You can get it in a butter or a shatter. Good God. It's pretty loud. I can't even see them. I don't know if you can even see it. Probably not.

1:38:30BubblemanNo, when it was right up close you could see it. It looks like Fred Flintstone smoking a joint.

1:38:37BubblemanI said it looked like Fred Flintstone smoking a joint.

1:38:42TonyIt looked like a Rorschach test. Yeah, so the butter consistency, what I was doing before was gentle heat.

1:38:59TonyAnd a little bit of light bulping or just putting it on parchment and then just putting it on a seedling mat with a book on top of it, kind of like a stimulated pocket cure. But Matt is taking that flower rosin, putting it back through the seedling and pressing it again. And the hydraulic force is kind of turning out. It's crazy. It's really good. I was not 100% sold on flowers, flower rosin like pretty much everybody else.

1:39:31SpeakerThat's what happened in Washington. Everybody kind of bopped at it at first and everybody's stuck in the BHO world still. And as soon as they tried it, we had to give a lot away for free to get them hooked on it. But once they did, it's good medicine. It's cleaner for you. As soon as you start smoking it consistently, watch your rig. It stays cleaner. So imagine what that's doing to your lungs too.

1:39:54TonyYeah. And on this silicone carbide now, at about 560 to 610. We got it at 610 right now. It just vapes forever. Really good.

1:40:12BubblemanThat was extremely tasty. I haven't heard much from Horatio today. What's going on, Horatio?

1:40:28BubblemanCoughity kiff, cough cough kiff. He's got a new... Caught him mid-inhale.

1:40:35TonyHoratio's got that new-new. Every time I have a conversation with him, something new comes out. He's got the transdermal bomb now.

1:40:46SpeakerThat was killing me. I've had it to do for forever and a day. And it's always somebody you come across that has that condition that triggers your, oh my God, that's the sign I have to do it now. I met somebody who had one of those car accident hands that was just made out of ash cheek skin graft. And it's funny that my father had the same hand.

1:41:12SpeakerAnd I knew the struggle with the skin tension over time. And how it becomes a debilitating, painful disorder. And I had just given the person on their first try of active LHO like a day before, and they started to feel response in the dead part of their shoulders. So as soon as he's like, yeah, but my skin, it's like leather. I can't even close my grip. I'm like, oh, fuck.

1:41:38SpeakerEnough is enough. I got to get it right, and I got to get it now. And I'm just working on response. I want it to be a really strong... I don't care if your knee goes fucking numb. I'd just rather know it works every time and I back off than have that, yeah, you know, it kind of helped response. So I'm looking at probably upping the concentration next.

1:42:02TonyWell, the transdermal's good. I just haven't... We talked about it and I've been working on... I've been working on that

1:42:14TonyFor about a year, I just have, honestly, just been trying to get the sublingual, the capsules going. But the, I like the transdermal. Personally, I can't make enough of it for myself and the people that are around me, the different patients. Like right now, it's going towards the, that patient jack that you've seen in the news before. The little boy that's changed the law in Colorado, he's one of our patients, and he's getting the one-to-one-to-one transdermal, all made from rosin, basically hash rosin, and flower rosin.

1:42:52TonySo it's, I think it works really, really good. I use it for my My lower back, like if you have herniation in your back, muscle spasm, nerve pain, the microdosing of the sublingual is really key with the transdermal in conjunction with, and anyone that's like, I use the transdermal for anyone that doesn't smoke cannabis, you know, you've got mom, dad, or grandma, and they're like, oh, I've never used cannabis, but I've got arthritis or inflammation or just joint pain, and then they use a little bit of it as a cream, And they see the results and they don't feel like they got stoned or high or anything like that, but they've got tremendous relief.

1:43:35TonyAnd it's a natural way to deliver a pharmaceutical grade type of product for that particular condition. Anything with pain, inflammation, burns, anything with that, it's cannabis rocks. That's why salves are so good.

1:43:55SpeakerOur daughter had an accident about a year ago where she got, tragic accident where she got burned pretty bad on her arm and on her leg. And my wife Jody started putting cannabis lotion onto her arm. And not on her leg, though, because we wanted to have a little compare and contrast. And on her arm, the scar is at least 50% better than the one on her leg.

1:44:15TonyAnd it was the worst scar, but that's why we chose that one.

1:44:18SpeakerSo, I mean, as we clean it up, I honestly think that her youth, they might feel very responsible for that damage just using catheters. Yeah, I used a salve when I had my knee surgery, and everyone looks at my knee, and it's not a salve. Or I don't know. So, gone.

1:44:34TonySo, same thing. And I think that's also, when I was talking to you about that, where if you look at the endocannabinoid system, you look at different receptors as gateways for controlling and signaling like our traffic system. So we know sublingual addresses central nervous system the best, capsules is the immune system, and gels and transdermals are activators. So if this is the commander, and you have pain or you have a scar, and you have that And so if you're putting a salve on there, then you're just activating an area and saying to address it faster, and that's regenerative, and that proves it.

1:45:14TonySo when you're skin healing and regenerating those cells, then it proves cannabinoids have regenerative properties.

1:45:21SpeakerOh, for sure.

1:45:23TonyWe're right around the corner from some big science being done that shows us that we all know what happens, we just need the hard data, which is changing what you guys are getting ready to do. We're going to have it, finally. Yeah. Well, I'm going to bring my computer around and show you this little hydraulic press. Do you want to try to press that out? Oh, it wasn't ready?

1:45:44TonyOh, it was. You've got to sit. Yeah.

1:45:53SpeakerWell, Tony, just say one thing about the difference between topicals and transdermals, because everyone gets excited, and, you know, you could say, like, you make a coconut oil product, and, you know, we just talked about all the difference between straight coconut oil versus fats, but how would people identify a transdermal, because now that's going to be the new buzzword, that everything that's a lotion is a transdermal, but a transdermal is a specific Thank you so much for joining us.

1:46:42TonyThank you so much for joining us.

1:47:10TonyThank you for joining us.

1:47:33TonyTransdermal patch technology. They have transdermal gels. Look at how fentanyl patches are delivered. You put a fentanyl patch on, a narcotic patch, and you leave that on for a week or a month, and it delivers. So that's a transdermal. Topical is something that you just rub onto the skin, interacts with the top level, you can wash it off, and it doesn't actually enter the bloodstream. They're two different industries.

1:48:04SpeakerWell, that's kind of what I needed to put forth because when that gel goes on your skin, it's gone. So the cannabis oil that's in it is gone too where when I normally, you know, anything I've done in the past, you can feel it on top later that, you know, then you wonder should I put it under a band-aid where the transdermals, it's almost like if you don't want it to go halfway in your hand, you have to use a glove in order to apply it.

1:48:33TonyYeah, yeah, exactly. And also on a topical, so you'll get like a lot of, so if you have like nerve pain, tingling pain, or you have inflammation and swelling of that particular area, a topical could still address those things very well. And so... I'm not trying to take away from the topical because I also have a topical oil that I use for specifically that and a massage oil that's used specifically for that for deep muscle massage.

1:49:07TonyA transdermal is something if you had knee pain, you could put that on your wrist. Thank you for watching.

1:49:32TonySports gel, somebody that's post-injury, or somebody that's been in car wrecks, that has a chronic condition, it's a great use for that. Or, if you develop something that would be time-release, that you're trying to take someone off of pharmaceuticals or opiates, that's when you would use transdermal patches and things like that. For everyday use, I think you can get away with transdermal gels. You don't need to do patches for daily use.

1:50:01SpeakerI totally agree because I started using the back of the ear to apply it to get it in the bloodstream as a general, but then apply it to the acute spots. I've been working on knees and applying it to the varicose veins as a pathway to get it directly flowing through those nerves that go bad in people's knees. But I did wonder who would need, basically who's going to trigger me to have to look into patches and can I avoid it?

1:50:29SpeakerBecause in the case of like kids, you know, even persistent rubbing on or having the product is an issue where a patch is something that allows them to bypass through society unknown.

1:50:40TonyWell, the gel, so with Jack, with kids, is...

1:50:47TonyYou can even rub it on the inside of your wrist like a gel and it'll stay like that. So it's really clear and no one sees it. So that's why the same thing that we talked about and the same base that you're using for your trans-thermal gel, it's really good and it stays on there. In my opinion, it's a great incognito way of keeping medicine delivering throughout the day for children.

1:51:14SpeakerWell, because I wondered, if I put it in a syringe, then they could put, basically losses, I was like, you could put it on the band-aid and then put that on the wrist. Like, I know for adults, they're just going to, it's going to go on as ointment and no one would ever know. But when it came to keeping it applied, I always wondered when does the level of the patch come in versus just applying more and more and more and more and more.

1:51:38SpeakerBecause people start to ask, basically people who are fighting things like fentanyl, you Thank you for joining us.

1:52:14TonyThat particular gel, it's very consistent in the way it delivers. You know, it's very handy for me, someone that's like, I put it on in the morning and I actually use it as like a topical. I put it on my lower back and I put it on my knee and then I put it sometimes on the side of my temples or like in my veins right here.

1:52:40TonyLike if I just rub it in right here. And then on the top parts of my hand, just rub it in where the veins are. And so that seems to last. That and a capsule or a few drops, like the combination of those three that I've been using, that seems to be like a very wide spectrum way to cover almost any kind of condition and ailment and a way to target it.

1:53:07TonySo those are really my only three things that I use is the transdermal gel, the sublingual, and the capsules. Those three cover it. And topicals. Topicals are good too.

1:53:19SpeakerHow concentrated, like I'm wondering, because I read some sports stuff about people who need pain opiates but they can't get drowsy or they'll kill themselves doing sports, but they've got to wreck me, and as soon as it came out, there's the amount of people who wanted to use it on an anti-cannabis person, and I was considering, well, how strong could I make it that they could actually get that More like the capsule experience without the mental, I took cannabis and it's going to get me high.

1:53:50SpeakerThey don't think it will get them high, so how concentrated could I go?

1:53:54TonySo if you keep it inactive, you could go much higher on concentration because they're going to absorb faster, they won't have a psychotropic effect, but if you keep it activated, you would go like a third of what you normally would. So you'd be surprised actually how much will help a non-cannabis user. As an example, if you did a one-to-one-to-one and for every particular, say, pump from that applicator was, you know, 10 milligrams total and it was in a transdermal gel and it was activated, you could probably get away with, you know, a 20 or 30 milligram inactivated and see Tremendous maximum results without them feeling a psychotropic effect.

1:54:49TonyBut just a little bit more. And then I also like activated cannabinoids when you're dealing with transdermals instead of inactives. So for me, I always keep everything active and really low dose, like 2, 5, 10 milligrams.

1:55:08SpeakerWell that's the hardest thing to deal with with the transdermal is people's character types when it comes to their pain and they get a new product. I think of like well I can apply it to my wife and she's going to use it sensibly and I can think of the times when John B is in a lot of pain and he's going to try to dump it at himself and I'm like no he could get ruined how do I balance out the two worlds.

1:55:33SpeakerBecause I want the person who's timid to get the maximum experience, but I don't want John B to trip balls because he tries to address like serious nerve stress, like in an emergency. He won't be as responsible with the application. But I'm trying to go as pretty much as strong as it'll stay.

1:55:55TonyYeah, I mean, I make in three ounces, I'll make a thousand milligrams in three ounces.

1:56:03TonyThat gives you an idea.

1:56:06SpeakerOkay, I started at 1.5 and 3 ounces.

1:56:11TonyCome on, I want to show you something.

1:56:14SpeakerDo it.

1:56:16TonySo this is a hydraulic, hand hydraulic press. There's been four models since this.

1:56:29TonyNow we have... Customized digital hydraulic pressing. This is a good home unit. Good idea. This right here is still getting 85-96% return on hash.

1:56:49Etienne FontanNow I noticed last night when you were doing the pressing here that you're doing it in small punches initially before you go with the full pressing. Can you explain why?

1:57:01TonyYeah, that's incremental pressing, just like when you do it at home with your hand iron. You want to slowly release things. And the reason why you want to do that is so you don't blow out your screens. So it allows the heat to slowly absorb, and it keeps a very consistent look among the product. So like if you get spots that are different colors or brown, so now it's going to get jacked.

1:57:38TonyThis is only a couple grams.

1:57:45Etienne FontanWhat you're seeing there people is the hash is starting to come out there from where it was pressed from and there's the actual. Can you see that?

1:57:56SpeakerTony, it's so funny. So now did you preheat the plates or is that just cold pressed? Because I'm going to turn my camera in a second, but I want to hear that answer first.

1:58:09TonyThis one was heated with a torch first.

1:58:13SpeakerOkay, because I had some plate blowouts because I don't know if I can reach it, but I keep a hydraulic press nice and close to my desk. I don't know fucking why, but that's just a part of life and Yeah, I would fuck around with an intermediary place that I could heat at a stable temperature and then introduce in between. And I'm up to cast iron now because I've blown out so many stupid... Hey, let me just borrow that pan.

1:58:49SpeakerI want to see if it heats up well and then destroy it. But... It's just funny, we're on the same plane, but I went and ruined it, because I've had millions of blowouts, because I went and ruined it. You've got to go with stainless steel, Horatio. It's the only way. Yeah, I have that same exact press, except for mine's not painted that way. It's like, Horatio.

1:59:16BubblemanWhat did you guys run there, Tony? What's up? What did you run? Was that like a little bit of half bubble, dry sip, or?

1:59:24TonyWe ran all full melt 73. I ran Bruce Banner, Cindy, Flo, Grape Stomp, and the glue.

1:59:34Etienne FontanLast night, Frenchie Cannoli was over, and he gave us a sample of about a Tootsie Roll style, about 5-inch, 5-gram sample of his 160, and we put that through that press last night. And Frenchie's cannoli mash was amazing.

1:59:53TonyYeah, so that's like the, that's just like the home model, and yeah, these plates are big. The one that's on a commercial size unit that we're using is absolutely ridiculous.

2:00:13SpeakerHey, welcome, Michaela.

2:00:16TonyBut I think when you look at a home unit...

2:00:22TonyYou probably could do like 30 to 50 gram runs. And that's a pretty good substantial unit for home.

2:00:36Etienne FontanWelcome back, guys. Hi, Michaela. Welcome.

2:00:46SpeakerI'd like to say hi to Michaela too. It's her video is that, you know everyone has that trigger video that it's like, no, no, no, no, it could be the answer. I've got to go that way. The video you're able to show your wife versus the cannabis stuff that we believe in. And I remember that juicing video with you and the flowers like it was yesterday. And it's crazy now that my sublinguals and looking at the THCA is all about remembering that juicing video, that there's a whole other realm that people don't focus on.

2:01:21SpeakerBut Michaela was doing it since, I guess, before me, before I was even taking cannabis seriously. She's the one that made me really consider What if this is an honest pathway for a living and basically healing human suffering?

2:01:41Etienne FontanMichaela, you're going to have to unmute yourself, honey. I muted you because it was kind of loud there. My apologies.

2:01:51SpeakerHello. Hi.

2:02:00Etienne FontanThank you for coming and showing and saying good morning to us all.

2:02:05SpeakerWhat would you like to say? Well, not very much. But I do have a broken leg. It hurts.

2:02:16BubblemanOh. Broken legs are no fun. Nope.

2:02:26BubblemanAlthough, it's kind of okay when you get a cast and then your friends sign your cast and they all kind of write different cool things. I didn't mind that part.

2:02:36SpeakerOuch.

2:02:39BubblemanOf course, they probably don't make old people casts like that anymore. Now they're probably all like fiberglass and like you can get them wet and they're made of like airbags and I don't know. No. No? Just a regular old cast?

2:02:53SpeakerYou can't get your cast wet.

2:02:56Etienne FontanOh, okay. How old are you now, Mikayla?

2:03:00SpeakerTen. Double digits.

2:03:05Etienne FontanNice. Double digits is great. Welcome to being a teenager.

2:03:11SpeakerI'm not a teenager yet. I'm not a... I'm ten. You keep telling your dad that.

2:03:21Etienne FontanYou keep telling your dad that.

2:03:30BubblemanSo what do you have to do, what do you get to do for fun now that you have a broken leg if you can't really go jump on the trampoline or just kind of relax and sitting around?

2:03:41SpeakerYes, I've been playing Rayman Legends on the TV.

2:03:51BubblemanExcellent, excellent. Yep. Good to keep the mind busy when the... When the body sometimes breaks down. I've had many, many broken bones myself. I've had 16 broken bones. That's a lot. It is. It's more than I need. I don't want to ever have another one. I hope I won't ever have another broken bone. They hurt. Yes, they do.

2:04:21SpeakerAnd I especially did not like it when I had to have the splint on.

2:04:25Etienne FontanMichaela, how did you hurt your leg?

2:04:30SpeakerUh, me, Dad, and Riley were all jumping on the trampoline, and one of us, which, that one of us, um, well, Dad was jumping close to me because we were playing Catch the Spider, and he was jumping too close to me, and he stole my bounce, so I fell on one side of my leg, and when I tried getting up, I fell on the other side, and that's how I broke it.

2:05:18BubblemanMy son's here, Michaela. He says hi, but he's doing it off camera. He's too shy to come on. He's 11.

2:05:27SpeakerOne year older than me.

2:05:29BubblemanYep, one year older than you. Born in 2003. Born in 2005.

2:05:36SpeakerOh wow.

2:05:41BubblemanSo we must be a year and a bit older then.

2:05:47BubblemanYou are almost 12, it's true. In some months.

2:05:54BubblemanHe's trying to get my attention because I think he wants to go swimming in this pool.

2:06:00SpeakerThat's a big pool.

2:06:03BubblemanYeah, I'm back where I grew up. I'm back at my mom's house right now where I grew up as a little boy. There's my mom on the top of the screen on the barbecue. Hi, Mom.

2:06:18BubblemanThat's my mom on Hash Church.

2:06:24BubblemanWhat's she barbecuing?

2:06:27SpeakerI'm not sure what are you barbecuing, Mom.

2:06:31BubblemanOh, she's just cleaning it up so we can use it. Probably because she cooks meat on there and we will be cooking probably vegetarian items. Most definitely. Do you eat a vegetarian diet as well, Michaela? Yes. My son, too. He's never had... Like chickens or pigs or cows or any of those things. He's never had them before. Maybe one day. I don't know. But for now, just the good stuff.

2:07:06Etienne FontanHi, Michaela. Could you give us adults a perspective of what it was like for you to take medical cannabis and how it's helped you?

2:07:23SpeakerI don't really know.

2:07:24Etienne FontanDid you know the medicine that they were giving you when it started to help you? Did you recognize that it was helping you?

2:07:35SpeakerYeah.

2:07:40Etienne FontanHow did that make you feel?

2:07:45SpeakerI don't know.

2:07:52Etienne FontanDid it make you feel better?

2:07:58BubblemanIt made her feel good enough that she started jumping up on trampolines. A little trampoline jumping. Summertime too, hey? That is pretty much the hardest time to have a cast.

2:08:16SpeakerAnd yesterday was 4th of July.

2:08:20BubblemanI know. What did you do for 4th of July? How did you celebrate?

2:08:25SpeakerFirework.

2:08:26BubblemanOh, nice. Yeah, you know what? You can enjoy fireworks pretty much equally with or without a cast, so you were pretty much on an equal footing with everyone else there. We had giant sparklers.

2:08:43SpeakerGiant sparklers.

2:08:47BubblemanOh, yeah, giant sparklers. Those are the best. Did you wave them around and create patterns in the darkness?

2:08:55SpeakerYeah, I also made a face on the sidewalk, but Mom washed him away. He washed away, Bob!

2:09:02BubblemanHow did you make a face?

2:09:06SpeakerSo you take the fiery, um, sparkling, sparkling part, and you put it on the ground, and it leaves a marking from the fire.

2:09:16BubblemanAh. Brilliant. Brilliant! Well, that sounds like a good 4th of July.

2:09:25SpeakerYep, it was.

2:09:32BubblemanIt looks as though... Oh, that's good. We do it up here in Canada. We do the 1st of July. I'm not too sure. We just have these different days. So, 1st of July in Canada, 4th of July in America.

2:09:50SpeakerYep.

2:09:58Etienne FontanSo, Mikayla, you're just a normal girl, aren't you?

2:10:01SpeakerNot really.

2:10:04Etienne FontanAha!

2:10:09Etienne FontanYou sound like a normal girl. It sounds like you're enjoying summer, bouncing on trampolines, now recovering.

2:10:16SpeakerMm-hmm. Yep.

2:10:21Etienne FontanIt must be nice not to be so sick anymore, yes?

2:10:24SpeakerYep.

2:10:27Etienne FontanYou're a strong, brave woman. Many people look to you and thank you very much for your strength and your parents' strength for showing many people the way that medical cannabis does help. So thank you for being a brave woman.

2:10:44NickBye-bye. Thanks for coming in. Bye.

2:11:03BubblemanI could be wrong, but I think Todd and Tony are at the same place.

2:11:09Etienne FontanYou'd be correct. We all hung out last night with Rob. Like I said, Rob Clark's there, Frenchie Canole came over. We made rosin last night, all night, basically trying different things from extracting the THCA, adding CBD, then pressing that together. It was a lot of experimentation and playing. Hey Brandon, thank you a lot for allowing Michaela on. That was really awesome. She is so sweet.

2:11:41NickShe wanted to come on and say hello to you all.

2:11:46BubblemanWe sure appreciate it, absolutely. I felt like I was there yesterday, Etienne. I watched your Periscope and I was like, damn, there must be some people in that crowd for them just to be showing feet.

2:12:00Etienne FontanYeah, I was trying to be respectful when you're running with that many masters. You know, like, hey, I'm posting live on the internet. I know we're all just socializing. So here, you know, here's my camera. I don't want to get all up in your face and everything.

2:12:14BubblemanMy favorite was always when people would try to take Skunkman Sam's photograph. That was always my favorite. Good luck. Yeah, that's a huge no-no. Don't do that.

2:12:31Etienne FontanAnd he probably can be pretty gruff in response.

2:12:36BubblemanYeah, I mean, he'll just like leave or ask you to delete it or whatever. Just like doesn't like, you know, it's respectful. You learn it when you travel, you know, unless you're really a specific type of photographer where you are shooting people. Well, then you do that in a way where, you know, I guess they don't know because people don't like just having cameras put in their face and having their picture taken.

2:12:58BubblemanIt's Hey, we've been talking about rosin all day, and who shows up? Howdy, Soil Grown.

2:13:09SpeakerGood to see you.

2:13:09BubblemanIt's going great, man. We were just watching these guys press up some rosin on, I guess it was a hydraulic prep.

2:13:20Etienne FontanVery nice. Yeah, it looks like they're away prepping it right now, or they're heating it, getting all ready for the next round.

2:13:27Archive SeedsThis tech is evolving very fast.

2:13:33Etienne FontanWe're very excited to see it. Myself, I know that Nick over at Harborside is seeing it. We're seeing it even here in Berkeley. We're seeing rosin coming to market. The patients are already benefiting from it coming directly to them. This July 4th in the Bay Area, people can actually buy rosin. You know, Roslyn directs from their dispensary. So I have nothing but thank every single one of you guys for spreading the word, spreading the knowledge.

2:14:03Etienne FontanAnd not only that, that people have got excited enough that, you know, they're actually making it, getting it to market. And like last night, it was fun with Rob Clark. And here we are patching all these different varieties and for him to, you know, We're all wondering, when does this technology actually come from? Because it's so ancient, it's just heat and pressure, and we've been using all these crazy chemicals to separate everything, and all we use is water, heat, pressure.

2:14:34SpeakerTa-da!

2:14:36BubblemanMagic. Yeah. Water being the key ingredient, once again, this really is a steam to water extraction. It's the steam, it's the water that is Is bringing out those oils, creating those patterns around the buds and around the hash, that is, it is key.

2:14:58Archive SeedsWell, we took some freeze dried bubble and pressed it and it still works. I mean, I don't know if that still has water in it or not, but it went through a freeze dryer.

2:15:09SpeakerIf you notice, the rosin probably sizzled.

2:15:13Archive SeedsWhat's that? The rosin probably sizzled, no? When I was pressing it out, it actually, some of it, depending on what it was, some of the freeze-dried stuff came out straight butter. I put the temp really low, and once you open it up, it's butter already.

2:15:33SpeakerWhat do you think that is, Fletcher? If it's supposed to be bone dry, how can it rapidly accumulate so much water to create the buttering process that You know, it's like how could dry butter off the shelf be, like if you use bubble off the shelf, does it happen that fast?

2:15:53Archive SeedsI don't think buttering is necessarily strictly resulted from or related to just H2O, like water. I think it could also be due to water-soluble terpenes, extremely volatile terpenes, all that stuff, and the fact that they're hygroscopic and pulling in an H2O from the environment around you, A higher concentration of those, you're going to get more water faster. Yesterday, I trimmed up some OGKB and some lemon G-cross that we have.

2:16:30Archive SeedsThe trim was still really, really moist, but I took that, put it in the deep freezer with my Bubble Man Tubbler.

2:16:40Archive SeedsI got a bunch of keef that was like, you know, pretty melty on its own, but way too sticky to even have any chance of processing it dry without being in a walk-in or something like that. So take that and just rosin it, and I mean, here's some of what I made yesterday. And I mean, it is so sappy, it won't really, you know, it just moves wherever it goes.

2:17:11SpeakerThe question is, is the freeze-dried stuff becoming more of an environmental vacuum during the heat process than regular partial?

2:17:24Archive SeedsDr. What I think is that the freeze-drying process, depending on how you do it, how you insulate the bubble, how long you run it, what the moisture content of the bubble before you put it in were, is all going to have an impact on How much of your water-soluble terpenes are also going to get cooked off, or not even necessarily only water-soluble, but volatile period and particularly hydroscopic ones being pulled off during the vacuum process and also the heat-dry process that's part of the freeze-drying and causing the actual ice crystals to sublimate.

2:18:04SpeakerWell, I think that it has a lot to do with, you know, when you're freeze drying something, you know, you're not splitting those resin heads open, right? So you've got two things going on there. You've got water that's surrounding the resin, and then you have the resin. And when you freeze dry, you freeze that water that's on the outside, and that sublimates away with the vacuum. And at the same time, the resin head on the outside of it is being cured.

2:18:30SpeakerAnd so it's becoming a sealed package that has those water-soluble terpenes and alcohol-soluble terpenes in it. But it's not a sealed package. Well, it is in the sense that...

2:18:42Archive SeedsIt's not, because when I look at it under a microscope and it's done, it looks like if you over-freeze dry it, it looks like a prune or like a raisin. It's actually like looks deflated and looks like it's been ruptured in one point and has actually expelled some of the volatiles. That's what it looks like under a microscope. Now what, you know, I don't know, but it looks like a prune.

2:19:07Archive SeedsIt's all wrinkled up. And that's what happens if you have too much, it gets too much heat or from the heating elements because you didn't insulate it or... A vacuum process or just being in vacuum period degrades things faster than it would in other environments because it's under vacuum. All of that can play a role and factor into those changes from what would be a raw cannabis head at whatever point you extracted it and what it looks like once it's been cured via whatever method you're using, whether it's a microplane and Thank you for joining us.

2:20:14Archive SeedsYou can get like a more traditional texture where it's not, hasn't been pruned out yet, I guess, right? Or it hasn't raisined yet. And that, that just, you know, that'll grease up in your jar and look like the, but it'll butter out just like greased up hash will. And I mean, you know, that's one of the funniest things. I mean, if you have really, really high quality hash and it tastes really good, it's going to butter out no matter how good you are at drying it.

2:20:41Archive SeedsIt's going to happen eventually. If it came from fresh material. If it's old, dried material, or not old, but just dried or well-cured material, then it should be a lot more, I guess, stable.

2:20:57BubblemanWould you say that's the water, the moisture that's causing most of that, the buttering?

2:21:01Archive SeedsI think it's water-soluble and volatile terpenes, not necessarily H2O itself. And then the H2O being pulled in from your atmosphere... All of these things are going to be around you because of the hygroscopic nature of some terpenes. And I would assume that a lot of the terpenes that are really volatile are most likely water soluble because they boil off so easily at a room temperature. They don't need really another solvent to make them aromatic.

2:21:33Etienne FontanMakes sense.

2:21:34TonyAlso, when you're hitting temperatures over 120 and 140, you're turning up some of those terpenes They actually start turning into a solvent. So now it becomes this implosion of science within itself.

2:21:47Archive SeedsRight. And another thing too is, I mean, just the fact that any terpenes that you can smell at room temperature, like what you're doing right now, those are boiling off. And that's because they're so volatile that they'll just burn off at 70 degrees. I mean, to keep Some of these, you know, some of these terpenes won't freeze at 32 degrees. You know, you'll probably have to go way, way below.

2:22:13Archive SeedsI mean, there's some concentrates we've made in the past that don't have butane in them, and they, you know, and even some really, really sappy rosin that you put in the freezer and it still doesn't fully harden up and turn to a shatter. And I think that's just a high concentration of volatile terpenes of Either oil or water soluble, but mainly just volatiles that, you know, make things sappy.

2:22:43Archive SeedsIt changes the composition of your concentrate.

2:22:47BubblemanThis is sappy shit that Darren and I made on that video turning, I don't know, we took like, I can't remember if we did 30 grams. Yeah, we did 30 grams and got just over 14 grams. It was about a 50% return. This stuff's never buttered out. I don't Thank you for watching.

2:23:14TonyI think different environments also like Canada versus Washington or California or Colorado or Louisiana, let's say. Those different humidity contents of what's in the air is totally reactive with the type of patch. So like Colorado, I'm the same way. I'm like, yeah, I just leave it out. Nothing ever bothers me. It's perfect all the time. And then you go to like, you know, every time we've gone to Jamaica, that's a real good test.

2:23:40TonyIf you think your hatch is stable... Put it in your pocket, go to Jamaica, pull it out on the table, and if it's still super stable, then you'll know. But I think once you hit different ranges, so 25% humidity does something to that hash left out, 50% humidity, 80% humidity, as you go up those incremental rates, it all has a different effect.

2:24:05Archive SeedsWell, I think it's what type of ash and what the volatility of those terpenes in that environment at all those variables that you said, how that reacts. It's not, you know, every concentrate is going to be different in those different environmental things because if you add one terpene that was not present in this other, that's extremely hydroscopic, then you might, you know, be right in the butter territory.

2:24:31Archive SeedsWell, absolutely.

2:24:33TonyI also think the cryogenic, like the freezer is super important. So if you think of things with oxygen, oxygen starts breaking down and that's what you've got color in your hash and your extract and things like that. So like an older hash that's been exposed to a lot of oxygen and breakdown of that, you'll see that. But if you take fresh frozen material and you're able to capture those terpenes or you're able to capture your hash into like running it through bubble bags, putting it in a patty 73 through 120 and either grating it Thank you for joining us today.

2:25:34TonyBut like, the yield isn't going to be there and the entire plant essence isn't going to be there because you've already lost 50% of what was there. You know, and so what makes those terpenes, in my opinion, volatile is how they're extracted and the temperature and pressure in which they're extracted in. So you could change limonene to pinene with temperature. So a lot of people don't understand that these We're going to talk a little bit about the different types of terpenes that we're going to talk about today.

2:26:08TonyWe're going to talk a little bit about the different types of terpenes that we're going

2:26:26TonyThank you so much for joining us.

2:26:54TonyAnd if you could do it in a nitrogen environment, not in an oxygen environment, then you're really preserving everything perfectly.

2:27:03Archive SeedsYeah, I mean, just to go off of what you were saying with the, uh, putting stuff in the freezer, so when, uh, Soil Grown first started posting about the rosin and all that, I had some, like, hash that was, you know, 30% melty or something like that, that had been, that had basically left in the freezer in the, um, In the pressing screen for like, I don't know, a month or two because I just was like over drying it.

2:27:30Archive SeedsI knew I wasn't going to end up smoking it anyways. I was like, ah, fuck, I'll save this for someone for edibles or something. And so I took that out of the freezer and it smelled awesome. And I pressed that out and that bit in the freezer for two or three months just exposed to the freezer environment completely. And that stuff pressed out great. And I mean, when I touched it, it felt really dry.

2:27:56Archive SeedsLike you're saying, I don't even necessarily think that a freeze drying, you don't necessarily need to go through a whole freeze drying process to accomplish essentially the same net goal, which is what you're posting right there. And it's the...

2:28:12Archive SeedsThat's the win.

2:28:15SpeakerWell, yeah, I mean, water is going to sublimate at frozen temperatures over time. You know, it's just going to happen, right? You know, you're going to have some temperature shift that's going to happen, and over time it's just going to sublimate out. You know, you look at, like, freezer burn, basically, you know, that's the water coming out of whatever you put into the freezer. And so, yeah, that's a beautiful chunk there, Tony.

2:28:40TonyThis is going to... This is going to lungs. This is going to mat right now. So we had about a 98% return. This is two grams of hash through the hydraulic press. It's like super clear.

2:28:55SpeakerYou know, I want to chime in. You were talking about where... I'll chime in on the auto butter and all that earlier. You know, one thing about this, this is 100%. This has nothing to do with the person who's pressing it. This shows the grower's skills. We've had growers that we've processed for... Our White Rush, and that stays stable, and it's been stable for three months in open air.

2:29:16SpeakerIt's not degrading, it's not auto-buttering, it's been in a backpack at 90 degrees by accident, and it pulls right out. It's 100% correlated to water content and moisture content within the terpenes.

2:29:29TonyWe also just saw that last night. Oh, man, yeah. It was because the guy that had flowers here, the green crack, they were using those little humidity packs, and so that was a very... Bud was cured for a long time. There was moisture in it. But not to the core.

2:29:44SpeakerNot to the core. So we got a really great extract, but the moisture content in it was excessive. And like you were talking earlier, when you have such a, you know, those micro, macro terpenes that you're dealing with that You know, 30 below, there's still a liquid base. We ran into those very heavily yesterday with that green crack.

2:30:02TonyBut it was interesting. I mean, I liked it because it preserved a lot. I thought a lot of flavor. Oh, yeah. Just extremely hard to work with because it was so viscous. Impossible.

2:30:11Archive SeedsI don't see that as a bad thing at all, you know? Something wanting to butter, change over, to me, that says that it has an extremely high concentration of terpenes. Like, isn't that what we're going for in the first place? So what, there's a little water that gets attracted to it due to the nature of the concentrate. I mean, just the fact that it's, that you have a concentrate that's so high in terpenes that it's changing the, basically...

2:30:42SpeakerIt's an organic piece of living mixture that's separating, just like my chai is separating. Exactly. It's sinking, and this would represent cannabinoids, and the water that's floating on top would represent terpene. And when this happens in a piece of amber shatter, what you really see isn't necessarily like they used to say, it's degassing or it's You know, butane soup, when in reality, we see it happening with stuff that, you know, is in the water community, is in the rosin community, because really it is a separation of terpenes and cannabinoids that's happening organically.

2:31:15SpeakerYou know, when people say, oh, this shatter is stable, it's really just a matter of time and temperature of what they're talking about when they say stable, because the cannabinoids and the terpenes are going to want to separate, and there's nothing we can do about it. And can I ask you? Rob? Yes. So let's ask Rob about it, actually. When you wrote Hashish, was, you know, terpenes a big part of the conversation in a traditional half?

2:31:42SpeakerNo. Not at the time I started writing it. But when you look back through some of the forensic analyzes of Hashish that came in, they weren't all about the cannabinoids. Some did hint at what terpene fractions were there. Of course, the cannabis...

2:32:00SpeakerThat's why I put the appendix in the back listing all the terpenes that at the time, you know, in 1998 that you can find listings for that have been found in cannabis and a bit about their boiling points and some things about them, but nothing about their effects, things like that, just more in terms of How they affected a piece of hashish, besides the stickiness of THC, or the THC acid, which isn't sticky at all, what was making hashish stick together?

2:32:35SpeakerI was more into the physical side of the trick. The cohesion factor. Yeah. You know, do you think that now that this is a new phenomenon because, you know, one could almost argue that most of the hashish from yesterday has been really out of damaged cannabis, you know, cannabis that when it was harvested in fields didn't have the opportunity to be hand selected or manicured or treated as gingerly.

2:33:01SpeakerOh, that's so nice. Treated as gingerly as the cannabis that we now use and we blast with and we make You know, things like this.

2:33:13SpeakerWhich is this magic piece of rosin that just appeared. Magically appeared. That looks so familiar. It's rather similar to one that seemed to flash by earlier on the church. I pressed one earlier that almost did look just like that. Good work. Good work. That looks nice. Yeah, yeah. We did good with that. Should we try it? I would highly recommend it. So is this fragrant medicine as you called it?

2:33:47SpeakerIs this a new phenomenon? I mean are we really just now starting to be able to experience a wider breadth of cannabinoids with their terpenes intact because most of the cannabis before was dried in the sunlight or dried in open air barns or dried in such ways that the terpenes were. An afterthought at best. Absolutely.

2:34:08SpeakerPeople dried their cannabis as fast as they could dry it. They treated it in a bulk situation. Almost every culture that makes hashish, with the exception of places like Afghanistan in certain circumstances, just ground up all the weed and then tried to get the resin out of that. Other cultures tried to get the resin out As quickly as possible, leave behind as much plant material as possible.

2:34:36SpeakerThose are high-grade producers in Afghanistan, places like that. But Morocco, Lebanon, most of these places, it's all bulk. They just ground everything up and then try to sieve out the resin glands, rather than selectively trying to get rid of the resin glands and leave behind the plant material. It's all the modern way of doing it. Matt, this is amazing. This snaps like shatter brakes almost. It does.

2:35:09SpeakerIt's about 85 degrees right now sitting out here.

2:35:15Archive SeedsWow. I've got another question. Is it a possibility that just the presence of or a higher concentration of some of the minor cannabinoids that may or may not be present in all kinds of different strains be caused

2:35:34Archive SeedsIt could not just be cocaine only, but also cannabinoid, some minor cannabinoid that may or may not be in some strains, so I don't know.

2:35:46SpeakerI 100% agree. When we were pressing the green crack yesterday, that was probably... I've pressed a lot now, and that was probably the best material I've got to run, hands down. The yields were through the roof. Oh, that was like 20-something percent. Well, upper 20s, almost 30%. We couldn't get it all off. There was no way to tell because it was just so turpy. It was soaking into parchment paper.

2:36:09SpeakerI mean, we're going to switch to PTFE just to try and keep it from going in there, but... You know, testing we've done at even higher temperatures. We're getting 10s and 12s in our chirping counts. So, that's what's happening at it. What temp are you pressing? What was that? What temp are you pressing at for the flower? For flower, it really depends. We've gone down to 240 yesterday on that.

2:36:31SpeakerAnd I think lower is very, very possible once you start playing with extreme, extreme pressures. We're pretty hard now, but I want to go higher.

2:36:41Archive SeedsNice. Very nice. So, So, Rob, are all cannabinoids oil or water soluble?

2:36:49TonyDo we know? I don't know. Phyto-cannabinoids are not water soluble. That's what I found.

2:36:58SpeakerWell, inactive, are they oils or crystal? I mean, that's the first question.

2:37:03Archive SeedsRight. Sure.

2:37:05BubblemanMy two cents from the perspective of a hash maker is in regards to the buttering effect is that I have a feeling water is definitely potentially the culprit. I don't know why I always go back to that, but one of the reasons is that when you make dry sift and you use particularly old material where the glands have sort of raisined out like what Fletch was talking about earlier, they really kind of get so dry they turn into little raisins almost.

2:37:33BubblemanI've made Dry sift with material that is so old and long dried and pulled out, you know, hash that everyone would beg me to sell them. Like the stuff I brought to the cup last year, the sweet skunk dry sift, I left it out on the table for all 10 or 11 days that we were there. It never had any butter in it.

2:37:56TonyI was there. I was a witness of it the entire time we stayed there in Amsterdam where it's literally fogging in your room of moisture. Like you wake up with moisture in your skin and your bones. You left the lid off for 10 days in that type of condition. And it stayed like...

2:38:18Archive SeedsRight, but my question is could that be the presence or not the presence of I mean, because it is cured, those have already boiled off, so, you know.

2:38:35BubblemanI mean, it's possible. I always have, you know, just to put it into language, I theorize that there were, you know, there were water-soluble and alcohol-soluble terpenes for the reason that some were left in the hash and some were washed away in the water. And I also theorized that strains that we would call the dank, you know, like the Emerald Triangle Funk or the Old Blueberry or the Renee, these strains had this incredible funk to them.

2:39:03BubblemanAnd I found when I washed them with water that they maintained about 98% of that profile, that terpene smell. So I surmised that it was an alcohol-soluble product. Terpene content was through the roof, like if it was 10 or 12% terpenes in this, maybe 10% of them were alcohol soluble because the water had a very little flavor at the end and the hash itself smelled like the herb, like a bag of the herb.

2:39:34BubblemanSo I don't know. I think that there's going to be a little bit more chemistry involved to truly know, but I love that more and more people are focused on the question.

2:39:45SpeakerI got something to say. Okay. If you take, you look at the terpenes. Terpenes are of limited solubility in water. And almost all of them are soluble in hydrocarbons of various sorts. But the point is they are of limited solubility in water. So a little bit of any of them can come out in the wash water. What tends to come out in the wash water from making hashish is the monoterpenes.

2:40:17SpeakerAnd that's largely because a lot of these are monoterpene alcohols. They're terpenoid alcohols. And the alcohol group makes them water soluble. It also goes with something that if you ever used Everclear, okay, when you buy it, it's 180 proof or whatever, 185 proof, whatever it is. But as soon as you open it, it takes on water. This happens with anhydrous alcohol. In labs, even more, anhydrous, without water or alcohol.

2:40:45SpeakerSo as soon as you open alcohols of any kind, including alcohol terpenoids, they absorb water. They're hydrophilic. And I think part of what you're seeing with the terpenes, depending on which variety you're looking at and how you prepare it, is how much water gets absorbed as it's happening. You also have to remember that almost everything you're working with is THC acid. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

2:41:14SpeakerWe're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going

2:41:39SpeakerSteam distills them a tiny bit on a micro level, and it's pushing out more terpenes because of that, too. The cake that's left is flexible, okay? Even after this high-yield stuff, it's flexible. There's resin in there, obviously, or THC that's got liquid in it. But this was last night, and it's flexible as a piece of dog jerky. But it's still got stuff in it. You know, it's not 100% out of there.

2:42:09SpeakerIt's interesting. It doesn't smell like much, though. Almost all the treatments are gone, even though there's obviously goop still in there, so. Yeah, roll it up. Yeah, that goes.

2:42:21Etienne FontanRob, do you think there was a natural gravitation toward hand-rolled and tupple balls? I kind of wish Frenchy were around because, of course, you don't lose anything through the water, through the actual, you know, the hand-rubbing techniques or the hand-rolling techniques in a People have spoken highly of the differential of that high from that hand rub through the centuries because I would think then most of your terpenes and everything, that was really the only form of hash where they were actually retained.

2:42:50Etienne FontanI know, of course, there was also the contaminants and the water from the plant matter, et cetera, but wouldn't that have been the only carrier at the time that would have maintained the terpenes without the destruction?

2:43:02SpeakerNow, exactly the opposite, I think, ATN.

2:43:07SpeakerWhen you have fresh rosin glands, as Tony will tell you, are really soft. That's why he freezes them solid before he works with them. And when you make hand-rubbed hashish, you break all the glands. I mean, you can go rub some with rubber gloves from indoor plants and prove it to yourself and turn the rubber gloves inside out and flake the stuff off and get a lens and look at it, and they're broken up.

2:43:29SpeakerAnd that allows them to start oxidizing almost immediately. So in addition to all the wet plant juice and pieces of leaf you got in there, causing it to spoil and have other problems, you also have broken all the glands. So hand-rubbed hashes never did keep very long. And that's largely why everything coming out of Napal these days is recon, because they take stuff that's dried out and cracked, and they take 100 kilos, and I told this story before, they take out the best There are also freaks that they call a sieve, wonderful hash, but I'm talking about commercially what goes on.

2:44:02SpeakerThat's the end there, but the dry sieving is what preserved terpete, and a lot of

2:44:23SpeakerThe finest Afghan hash had been stored for years and years. So in the 70s, very early 70s when it came in, it was already stellar in age. And it had lost 50s because of that. But that's the way they liked to smoke it. They didn't have to wait. Nobody made them wait.

2:44:41NickThey liked it by the way.

2:44:44SpeakerThey were smokers.

2:44:50SpeakerThere's a difference. Everybody's vaporizing. Your products are really fascinating. You get all this varietal flavor. What guys historically are doing and what Frenchie does is cure weed, press things, do things to age them. What he talks about is preserving terpenes, but he's not preserving terpenes like we guys are. He's preserving terpenes. Terpene's as best he can within the model of doing it the traditional way to make a smoker's product.

2:45:28SpeakerThat's a real difference in our ages and our cultures. People who travel a lot reflect in traditional culture. You guys make it up new things. We're a good mix. That's why you get the two different schools of thought. Well, that's what you saw last night with Cali Labs and I playing around getting a little extreme. That's exactly what you're talking about is we thought that what we did was the most poker-friendly way of consuming those phytocannabinoids.

2:45:56SpeakerAnd I think everybody who tried it last night would agree it was successful. Well, it's just a completely different thing. I mean, when you smoke really a lot of different kinds of weed, it's hard to go to sleep at night. You know, when you smoke a whole bunch of different weeds pressed out, and you get even higher, it's even harder to go to sleep at night. So, whatever's missing, okay, you guys pick varieties that are not sleepy varieties, because all we do is sit around and talk, try to invent stuff.

2:46:28SpeakerYou know, it's not like blue-collar guys trying to go to sleep, or medical people trying to get over their pain. I mean, we're trying to get high, so that's a different thing. But... It works really well that way. It's like smoking really good weed, but without the weed and without any steps in between that took away anything you like. So, yeah, the big thing to me is...

2:46:53SpeakerThey wake you back up. I know I've heard Horatio talk about it numerous times, but it's recharging the modulation that just the terpene load we put into that last night is exactly right. It just kept you going. It was another plane. Yeah.

2:47:08Etienne FontanYeah, I had to do straight CBD when I got home just to come down because I was way too high and modulated.

2:47:22TonyIt's a whole market in come down drugs now.

2:47:34SpeakerAll right, guys, I've got to check out. I'm on my way to a barbecue, so enjoy the rest of church and have a great Sunday. All right. Cheers, bro. I'll see everybody next week at Chalice.

2:47:47BubblemanCBD. Got that Moxie CBD.

2:47:50Etienne FontanYeah, Moxie's in our... We have them at BPG now, and yeah, we were so high from just all the different types of modulations. They were literally playing with all these different things in the press. And I literally tried about 20 different things last night and I wanted to get to bed so I could get up for Hash Church.

2:48:10Etienne FontanAnd you were up for Hash Church, let me tell you.

2:48:14BubblemanLive and like a bushy-tailed rabbit. For me it was really easy this particular Sunday because I didn't have to start Hash Church until, geez, what was it like? Nine o'clock here. Oh no, yeah. Manitoba, right? Yeah, I'm in Manitoba right now. So 9 a.m. here was actually 7 a.m. Or 9 a.m. in Vancouver, sorry, it was 11 a.m. here. So I got a couple of extra hours to take care of business.

2:48:46Jeff ChurchI was ready for Ash Church yesterday.

2:48:48BubblemanYeah, Aaron's been ready for like 31 hours.

2:48:53Etienne FontanWhat, you turned in yesterday, Aaron, by chance? I thought it was Sunday. Okay.

2:48:59Jeff ChurchHe's like, what's up? I hit a bone, man. I'm like, what's up with the link, bro? He's like, it's Saturday. I'm like, oh. You still hitting that Cuban sift or what? I got all sorts of sifts. I got all sorts of sifts. I got all sorts of sifts.

2:49:21BubblemanYou got any of that Taylor sift? Taylor sift?

2:49:30BubblemanNo, no Taylor Swift. There's a dude in chat with that name. It always makes me laugh.

2:49:38Etienne FontanWell. Hey, Tony, what are y'all pressing now? I'm not quite in it. One sec. What are y'all pressing now?

2:49:48TonyOh, this is the, we got two grams that we have to slap here is Bruce Banner and

2:49:58BubblemanYou poor saps with very little variety. I feel terrible for you.

2:50:06TonyTake that, Rob.

2:50:08BubblemanQuite fine, thank you.

2:50:11SpeakerThat's a well-hung dab, sir.

2:50:28Etienne FontanAnd what flavor is this particular varietal?

2:50:31TonyThat's the Panner, Glue, Cindy, 99, Flow, Great Stomper.

2:50:38BubblemanSay that three times when you're high. Yeah, and if you had to order it, like through like a delivery service or something, damn, yeah, I'll take three grams of the... Yeah.

2:50:56TonyIt's a mouthful for certain. It's a bubble man whamma.

2:50:59SpeakerIt is. Those bags, they work perfect, those screens. Yep. This was through a bubble bag. You know, we've actually tried every single screen company out there, and bad screens are the only ones that don't blow out.

2:51:16BubblemanDo you want me to tell you why?

2:51:18SpeakerThose are amazing.

2:51:19BubblemanNo, no, it's super simple because they are the highest quality screens you can buy in Switzerland or Germany for like pharmaceutical grade drug separation. Nobody pays the fucking money I pay for these screens because you can pay so much less to get what looks like the same product but it is not the same product. It's a cheaper version.

2:51:46Etienne FontanThe proof is in the rosin. Oh man, I'm not far enough away. Hold on to me. Come on. Okay, hold on. Okay.

2:51:56SpeakerAll I know is we've even tried some metal bags, and metal bags will tear your amazing bags down. So I'm not trying to blow you out on your bags. They're well known already, but I would suggest anybody pressing, don't mess around with the others. We already have. Don't waste your time. Get serious and get the right stuff.

2:52:15BubblemanWell, it's just as simple as buying the best quality screen, and nobody wants to buy it because you can't buy it in meters or sections. They sell it by the bulk, and it's about 18,000 to 23,000 euros per bulk. People aren't interested in that type of investment. You have to get some rosin screens. Except you. Yeah. I get to buy eight different bulks each time because I have an eight-day kit.

2:52:45SpeakerSo does that mean when the super industrial rosin press, you'll be able to provide an eight foot wide envelope and we'll wrap like a whole trailer load of weed? That's what I mean. It'll be on those massive... I see like industrial seats of parchment paper being pulled out and stopped.

2:53:10BubblemanI can't wait for the day. I see a giant rosin machine.

2:53:13SpeakerI mean, if you use your brain, the sky's the limit.

2:53:16BubblemanYeah, it's true. Not to mention, you know, I do have a strange feeling that pressing will lead us to something different. And the reason I think that is, is because from the first day after I showed Breeders Steve the concept of rosin and the extraction, he had sent me a bunch of different machines and he has since posted some of them on Instagram and Some of those oil extruders, the seed extruders that actually twist, they have these sort of like corks that twist through these areas and they just extrude all the non-oil material and push out the oil out the other way.

2:53:57BubblemanMan, those things, it would be quite something to see like five gallons of rosin pour out of one of those things once the dial got cracked.

2:54:05SpeakerWhen I first started dreaming about seeing this happen, First thing I looked at was a flaxseed press. I mean, YouTube it. That's what I would like to see happen. And that's eventually where it will go. Like we were talking, the corkscrew press. We've already figured out that it's not about direct pressure. It's about gradient and then direct point pressure. You know, you still have to be able to exert an enormous amount of force, but you've got to gradient it in.

2:54:31SpeakerYou've got to heat it up and let it do what it needs to do. And, you know, just a hint, the machines that we're going to be finalizing on the last model of this, it will be that. It will be an electric-driven brushless corkscrew press. That way it's static room ready. You can throw this in a clean room in a 502 lab in the Washington world forever.

2:54:53SpeakerAnd it's going to pass the third-party inspection. This is lab-grade stuff we're going to be putting out.

2:54:57Archive SeedsSo, yeah, you're right. I got a question. So, you know, essentially what we're doing with the rosin is like a high temperature, or not high temperature, but low temperature, high pressure. Quick steam distillation. Why would you, why do we nest, couldn't you just have like a chamber with a lot of pressure and like steam just blast through it with it? I'm just posing the question that, you know, if it's a steam distillation, wouldn't there be alternative methods of steam distillation as well?

2:55:33Archive SeedsI think the idea of...

2:55:36BubblemanConnecting it to something that is agricultural is the reason I think that also a flax seed or a canola oil seed extruder, those things can work in the field. Those things can produce such an incredible amount of this oil in such a short time. It's really more of an agricultural tool than it is like a, it's just on a different level. And I just don't think the pressing, and I could be wrong.

2:56:05BubblemanI just don't think it will be the future of rosin.

2:56:11SpeakerI agree. We were talking yesterday about different jet sizes. Just talking about creating pressure and speed of what you're throwing at it. Yeah, imagine jetting down steam faster and faster to where we're at the same PSI as our pumps are pushing right now and getting it 100% just with jetted steam. But it's still at low temperature because it's being jetted lower and lower and lower. It's gaining its own thermal client as it goes.

2:56:42BubblemanAre you getting that, Horatio?

2:56:48SpeakerI'm sorry, I'm googling an idea. I'm like, oh, I know how to fix that. I just have to, um, you can't talk googling.

2:56:56BubblemanI can see your brain working, dude.

2:56:59Archive SeedsLike a quick pass pressurized steam distillation or something like that. Is that basically what we're talking about?

2:57:09SpeakerI think once we all put our brains together, I think that's pretty close to exactly what we're talking about, but also incorporating pretty much what the flaxseed press is, because you still want to be able to wring out that last bit, right? So you're going to have to incorporate the two together.

2:57:26SpeakerThere's going to be advantages and drawbacks and things, because I know, like, I have an oilseed press, the one they sell in Africa all around the world, the Petiba press. And I looked at it and I'm like, well, it can do heat, but it could never do bud. It doesn't have enough oil to cellulose ratio to not get backed up and blow up. And if you use more heat to do that, you kind of ruin the rosin, but you could make a shit ton of industrial grade rosin.

2:57:55SpeakerI like the, uh,

2:58:25TonySesame seed oil hydraulic press. How sesame seed oil is done.

2:58:33TonyIt's a really cool way to also defend seeds.

2:58:38SpeakerAnd that's where people have been talking about the fresh frozen rose, and I think Johnny's on to something in one aspect, because it does take a certain amount of moisture to make any of these presses work under any amount. And we all talk about full plant extract and having everything inside of that, but we're not going to get a better chance than throwing a full plant into that.

2:59:00SpeakerWe've got the technology. I mean, we've got a mastermind reloading his pen right there who can probably take any substance we get and refine it perfectly. So yeah, let's develop the best way to do that organically within its own components, its own compounds.

2:59:16Archive SeedsYeah, when you rosin stuff that's been dry for five or seven days and saws a bit of that moisture in there,

2:59:23NickThat's great.

2:59:24SpeakerThat's great.

2:59:30SpeakerThat makes good sense. Just remember, what about that chlorophyll downside? The fresh frozen rose, it seems to be an up and down because some people harvest a drier plant and some people harvest a wet plant that's fully saturated. How would you stabilize that up? I've seen that fresh frozen rose come out perfect, and I've also seen it come out mush green. So is that just about perfecting the bubble process and processing wet materials rather than drying it?

3:00:06SpeakerFive-day dry. Flash is going to be a big part of it, but also temperatures and extraction. I mean, if you can inject nitrogen into your plates when you're pressing, you can flash freeze it the second you're done. And you know that's going to happen if you can go to 40 below the minute you change from your high temperature. There's going to be quite a reaction that's on there that's going to do a lot of pulling.

3:00:27SpeakerBut as far as cleaning out that chlorophyll, you know, that's where masterminds like you come into the picture. You know, you're scientists, too, who do amazing things and fix sometimes our boo-boos, or very often our boo-boos, trouble. And you make better medicine out of it. That's what Tony's Prawn is there for. It absorbs all the good that you guys can put into it out of what we can try to get you into a bulk extraction that's still quality.

3:00:52SpeakerLooks like I need a half gallon of fresh frozen goo and I'll put it through my sesame press under a candle.

3:01:09SpeakerYou know the, like I also was thinking of feeding it to my triterating juicer. It's a juicer that works on corkscrews, not one that works on blades. But there's that device and scaling that up because that's, it focuses in a cone so it gets smaller and smaller and smaller and you get your fractions along a length. So you can probably pull off the chlorophyll as the first juice before the oils start to build up in its flats.

3:01:36SpeakerThat's got to have R&D funding to modify an already $1,500 juicer. I can't blow up mine. Well, it'll pay for itself, Horatio. We built these presses by our patients' grace. We vended out shops all over Washington, have what was our boo-boos, and the patients loved the medicine so much that they funded our R&D. We wouldn't have gotten anywhere without our patients. Every penny that's gone into this has come from a couple of very good dispensaries in the area and has come 100% from the patients knowing the medicine was quality.

3:02:13SpeakerSo I can promise you the money's there.

3:02:20SpeakerWhat do you mean like when, because I mean some people are reacting, what do you mean like funding on our boo-boos? Now I know in the case of rosin, that's kind of it, like if the only boo-boo is moisture that could potentially spark grease into your eye, I see how those boo-boos are acceptable where pulling up the hydrocarbon ladder, the boo-boos are detrimental. Yeah, everybody who funded their R&D didn't make people in their ways.

3:02:49TonyYeah, the booboo is a little bit of water.

3:02:53SpeakerWell, I mean, kind of like my process, the booboos are non-toxic, so it allows everyone to join in the developmental process.

3:03:06Jeff ChurchYou guys, I got to go. Have a blessed Sunday.

3:03:11SpeakerPeace out, Aaron.

3:03:20TonyI didn't even know Aaron was sitting there this whole time.

3:03:24SpeakerNo, he hasn't said a word. He's jet lagged.

3:03:29NickJet lagged? Yes.

3:03:33TonySo what's going on, Bubble Man? You look like you're doing two shows at the same time. What's that? Are you double booked? Are you double booked right now? Are you doing Periscope and...

3:03:49BubblemanAsh Church at the same time? No, definitely not, but I do have the Hash Church chat open, and I am doing that. They're all talking about frozen and frozen and frozen, and I'm just like, I'm over here like, yeah, I spent 17 years banking and pleading with people to dry their water hash, not pressed hash with water in it, and now he's pointing terms like frozen and pressing wet, watered, bloated blood into it.

3:04:19TonyYeah, here's the issue that I have. Water can be your friend and it can be your enemy. And the way it can be your enemy is moisture content in trapped containers, things that aren't able to breathe, can produce molds. And with smoke, they can cause serious problems with patients that have autoimmune disorders, lung disease, and things that are prone for Thank you so much for joining us.

3:05:18TonyUnfortunately create some kind of bacteria that you don't want to have there. So when you're taking fresh frozen bud and trying to make rosin out of it, you're... Yeah.

3:05:32SpeakerNo, Tony, it's pressing of wet, like just making bubble house and pressing the goo.

3:05:41SpeakerThat's kind of why I was like, people loving your boo-boos. I'm like, I don't love that result. That'll kill me. And if it, that's why I'm like, depending on your boo-boos.

3:05:52TonyIt also makes it harsh. It makes it harsher.

3:05:56SpeakerSo like, I didn't want that culture going out there. People now selling, you know, $150 boo-boo.

3:06:04TonyYeah, take that, take that patty and either sift it out and then dry it or put it into a patty and if you could get it You can do that, you know, and then try to take the moisture out of it. Like cure that out and then press it. But don't press it like when it still has that much water.

3:06:25SpeakerAnd let me clarify, I guess I was really vague on that. I 100% believe in curing your bubble hash or any product that you're making. When we make bubble, we follow the guidelines that I learned from Mr. Bubble Man himself. What I'm leaning towards when I'm talking about bulk presses is the pure medicine side of getting everything out of the plant in an organic manner that then can give the scientist exactly what they need in an organic form that is basically clear of anything other than H2O and what that plant has.

3:07:06SpeakerTo begin their process with. So when you're trying to smoke and make amazing product like a bulb man's getting ready to smoke on, yeah, what we vend and what we make comes from the best cured product that we can find. What we vended in Washington and made for the patients was made from the highest quality flour we could find in the state. So yeah, there's a difference.

3:07:29SpeakerThere's definitely a difference. You don't suggest smoking RSO, do you? I mean, that's going to be unhealthy for you, especially for your lungs. But as far as medicine goes, it saves lives. But we want to smoke phenomenal bubble hash. I got to smoke some of Frenchie's last night, and I was amazed. I was blown away at the terpenes in it. But that's still good medicine. It's just meant for a different form of consumption.

3:08:00SpeakerIt's just that fear that, you know, just like Live Resin came out, the chase for terpene experiences, the more impression of the information goes, holy shit, I know how I can get a market. If I sell this new frozen shit, people will go crazy over the terp profile and they'll totally ignore the chest explosion, which, you know, they'll just get told that's a part of the high.

3:08:23SpeakerAnd the fact that it's reintroducing the downside to basically we're at the point where bubbles shouldn't have molds unless it's, you know, gray market. So to start a new trend that basically even puts more water in it. And I've heard things like, well, you can put it in the freezer and the water will purge out. And I'm like, that's insane. I put oil in the freezer and water condenses in.

3:08:48SpeakerSo, like, there's a lot of people that are going to hear that and then try to make a market and claim that, you know, well, we just learned on our boo-boos, but it's all natural to make mistakes with water, but we did it for the terpene profile.

3:09:07TonyTerpene profile.

3:09:16BubblemanWelcome back, D. Did you just come in? Yeah, you did. Yep. Just.

3:09:23Etienne FontanExcellent. Went and got a sandwich. What you puffing on, D?

3:09:29AaronSome rosin and some, this is, they're calling it here either Zen juice or juice, but it's another form of holy water done in a different I don't know the way or anything like that, but I'm liking it. Very tasty.

3:09:57AaronNice stuff. I like it. It's like the holy water, if anybody knows what that one is.

3:10:06BubblemanYes, I do. I've seen the holy water. Whenever I'm in Spain or Amsterdam, I'm around the holy water at Jux and Flux and Jigga always have it, and they're always generous and offer it, but I've never hit it yet. I've never had to. I've smelt it.

3:10:26AaronWell, if you'd like to hit it, we can hit it one day, Mark. I know how you are about your stuff, though. But do some research on it. Maybe you'll find that it's safe to put in you.

3:10:38BubblemanWell, it's hard to tell when they don't tell us how they made it.

3:10:44AaronMm-hmm. But I did ask about the solvent and if there's any solvent in it, if it's solventless. And from what I understand, it is solventless. Oh, yeah. The distillation process and pulling turps out and putting turps back in, I don't know the process because I am definitely not that savvy to that stuff. So I won't even try to think I am or try to...

3:11:11BubblemanBut they didn't use a chemical solvent to extract it though.

3:11:15AaronThey did not use a chemical solvent to extract it, no, not at all. That's good.

3:11:20SpeakerNow did they use the language solvent free or solvent less? Because if they say solvent free, they're basically saying I guarantee the end result is solvent free, but it's still extracted with a solvent.

3:11:34AaronI asked if I said solventless. I did do that technical term on it as well just because, you know, I am that savvy on it for sure. But from the teachings of yourself and Mark and that sort of stuff and from Hash Church, right, like I do know a few things to ask and I did ask that and that's the impression I got fully was that there's no solvents using to get this extraction.

3:12:02AaronWell, you know what? Don't take my word for it because I don't know, man. I could be being tricked, but I doubt it. I do take the guy's word for it because he seems to be a pretty decent guy and, you know.

3:12:14BubblemanProbably doesn't want to have his orbital lobe crushed in either, so. I know, I'm just joking.

3:12:22AaronMark, always with the orbital bone, eh? One time, well, 15 times it happens, it's...

3:12:33Etienne FontanHey, D, what's the difference in the high? Do you notice a different high or an onset with the holy water? Yes. And if so, what's the difference? Can you explain it? Because a lot of people have heard about holy water. I, fortunately, have tried various times, but a lot of people haven't, so they're wondering the difference and effect. Could you explain?

3:12:53AaronOkay. When I first, the first time that I got to smoking, I believe, was yesterday. And, or just the other day, a couple days ago, and when I smoked it and got a couple of totes, it basically, literally, like a blanket, came right over every part of me and went right to my fingertips. And if you took the toke and just closed your eyes and laid back, you would feel it go right through you and right to every part of your body.

3:13:19AaronIt's very uplifting. It put, when I smoked it last night, about five in a row, you could not, It by any means punched the smile off of my face. My muscles were in a permanent smile, like an acid grin. You couldn't move it. And it was very nice. It was enjoyable. It made me laugh. It made me feel like a fucking teenager getting stoned again, honestly. It made me sweat.

3:13:47AaronIt was a very good experience. Johnny B, he smoked it as well. He was at the end of his day pretty much. He'd done his eating and everything like that, and he's been medicating, so he's not too bad, but he's in a bit of a fucking spot where he's starting to get cranky and not feeling good because of his pains and all that sort of stuff. Well, he took a toke of that, and the first toke he took of it, and he literally fucking came out of his seat, went around the table, shook the guy's hand, was like, oh my God, I've never...

3:14:22AaronThank you for watching.

3:14:47AaronI was impressed. I liked it. And I dipped my dry sift with it or my rosin into it and take a toke. It's absolutely amazing. I like it a lot.

3:14:58BubblemanDude, and I wouldn't say that your pain is that much less than Johnny B's. When I heard you both tell your stories side by side, yours is pretty much just as crazy as his, dude. Yeah.

3:15:11AaronYeah, I guess.

3:15:11BubblemanI just haven't found it. Thanks for watching.

3:15:37AaronI can't say because I see his pain does affect him a lot more than mine affects me. Maybe I just hide it better.

3:15:43BubblemanI don't know. I'm thinking both of you are probably in a substantial amount of pain from the stories that I've heard you tell nonetheless. When John told me his story, it blew me away. When you told me your story, it blew me away.

3:15:57AaronThen your buddy told his story and it blew hours right out of the fucking water.

3:16:02BubblemanAlso, my other buddy was there who was in the coma and had the huge brutal accident and the spleen and everything. He was also at the table, but my buddy that had the tractor roll over him who broke every single bone in his body, he was like, we were all just like, here's your,

3:16:22AaronIt's like, it's like fucking, you know, four guys sitting around a table at a bar talking about fight stories. Yeah, I fought this one guy, he was 200 pounds. Then the next guy, oh, I fought three of those guys, that wasn't too bad, I took them all. And then the next guy's up to four or five, well, this guy, he fought a whole ninja gang that fucking flew over from fucking ninja town and he killed them all and slayed them all compared to the fucking war stories.

3:16:48AaronLike, that was brutal, man. Unless he was a kid. Yes, yes. Yeah, brutal. Talked our war stories like fucking, like the biggest cherry on top of the sundae. Wow.

3:17:03BubblemanAnd the way he said it was so, you know what also was crazy if you think about it, is the size of all of you. You had my friend Aaron, who was kind of a smaller guy, and then there's Johnny B, who's a little bit bigger than him, and then there's you, who's bigger than Johnny B, and then there was my friend, who is bigger than all of you guys.

3:17:26AaronYeah, we had all suffered greatly at certain points in our life, maybe a couple different times. And what a great metaphor.

3:17:33BubblemanWhat a great metaphor for life in itself in the sense that there's always someone going through intense shit. People are going through more than you realize so give them the benefit of the doubt even if they're not wearing it on their face. People are going through heavy shit all around us and just have some consideration for that every now and then.

3:17:55AaronYou know when I was growing up and people around me getting headaches, these migraine headaches and stuff, I was never understanding of it like How can it be that bad, like, you know? Until I started getting migraine headaches, and it was debilitating, literally laying in a dark room, fucking just feeling like your head's going to fucking pop and everything else. I understand. Some people go through it, like that one guy, Phil, he goes through the cluster migraines.

3:18:23AaronOh my God. The way the stars were filming was, holy shit, man. That's, uh, That's terrible, man.

3:18:35BubblemanYeah, he definitely has a lot of suffering. We'll have to get Phil back on Hash Church to tell us what he's been up to and see how he's currently dealing with those cluster headaches because there's lots of people that get those as well, migraines of all different sorts.

3:18:50AaronI think clusters is just sort of at the top of the list for... Well, he makes those grapeseed oil pills infused with CBDs, high CBDs. And he's given me some, and when I've started to get my migraines, the onset of them, I've taken two of those. I don't get a buzz in any way, shape, or form off them, but I do get rid of the headache.

3:19:13BubblemanYes, you generally, Rob, take your buzz away. It's the buzz killer. Yeah, it really helps me out. I know Rob loves smoking CBD.

3:19:31Etienne FontanShould we do a bong rip? Oh, wait. That's not true.

3:19:34BubblemanYeah, we should do a bong rip. We should do a bong rip. I'm going to cut church short in about 10, 15 minutes here and get on. My family's been waiting for me patiently on our vacation here, and they're just swimming in the pool right now. I can see my little guy sitting in front of the stairs, a little tuft of hair up in the middle. Very cute.

3:19:56AaronHe's always smiling, too.

3:20:00BubblemanHe likes to smile, there's no doubt about it. Especially when he sees those little watermelons, eh? Oh my God, he trips right out. And no, Darren is not talking about my wife's breasts, he's actually talking about watermelons.

3:20:13AaronI was not talking about your wife's breasts at all. Jesus Christ.

3:20:20BubblemanI know, I know. You're not pressing up a whack.

3:20:25Etienne FontanWhat's that? So before you go in earlier, but I do want to hear from Dee, because I saw John's Periscope. You guys were heavily attacked this week as peaceful demonstrators there in Vancouver, and a lot of people want to know what the hell's going to happen next, because you guys were great reporting it, and John especially for making sure his Periscope was running so he could see really what was going on, but...

3:20:53Etienne FontanIt was a shock to me as an American to see that happen to you Canadians on a nice peaceful day, on Canada Day, being mob tackled, but then to see you actually surround the police and drum them out was very heartening, so much fucking respect.

3:21:16AaronWell, that was the first time I've ever been involved in anything like that myself. We just walked down there and all of a sudden it happened. So I filmed what I could. I honestly felt like getting in there and kicking fucking cops in the head and fucking going for it because that's just the inner me just wanting to go for it. But, you know, I'm 45 years old.

3:21:39AaronI didn't want to get in there that much and, you know, make them forced to be fucking happy to take me away, right? Because I'm a bit of a menace when it comes down to that sort of thing. And Johnny, well, he fucking went nuts. He needed an out, a release for himself. And that day he took it, and he was right in their faces, like, fuck you, motherfuckers.

3:22:08AaronYou know, he's a weed warrior, that's for sure. And, you know, big props for that sort of stuff. But one thing I'd like to add, one thing I'd like to just put in the brains of everybody, Because I've talked with this a little bit myself and I don't want to go against any type of protest in any sort. But I wonder what the day would have turned out like if we had been asked like we were asked to move it somewhere else and not have it there.

3:22:42AaronBecause the activism, the protesting that has been done has resulted in so many good things happening and the mayor has also Given so many things and gone against the federal government and done this stuff, so I'm just wondering what would have happened if everybody would have said, you know what, let's go to Stanley Park this year or let's just fucking move it. Like they asked because, for only because we've got pretty much everything we've wanted now, so let's go with that because what are we actually protesting now?

3:23:13AaronThat's my thing there, right? Like I agree with everything and I don't think, you know, I think the cops didn't beat up too many people. But I don't think they, I think, I think it could have been a little bit more peaceful and handled a little bit better because... Well, it was political.

3:23:31BubblemanIt was, it was between mainly like the people who represent all of the activists, the Emerys, because they were the ones in contact, cannabis culture or whoever, you know, is being responsible, whether it's Jeremiah or, they're the ones that are in touch with the city and the city just asked them, you know, like if it's possible, like we just don't want We don't want people vending pot on Canada Day just because it's Canada Day.

3:23:56BubblemanLike there's a bunch of people that just got their citizenships. There's like people are celebrating Canada Day. They're like, yeah, go have it at another event because your protest used to be a protest, but now you're renting out booths. You've got stages. You've got porta-potties. This is now an event. So what everyone else in the city, anyone, anyone else, not everybody, This is not like a rule just for cannabis people.

3:24:19BubblemanYou are required to get a permit for such an event. So people do it for concerts, people do it for festivals. I've been to all sorts and they do give these permits. They're not impossible to get. It's just we're changing. We've protested so much that we've got ourselves to a level where it's like what are you protesting? It's like you asked for dispensaries and now we're regulating them.

3:24:42BubblemanYou can have dispensaries. We went against the federal government. Now you want to come and sell weed on Canada Day out in front of the art gallery where all the people are? I can attest I don't like seeing my friends be beaten by cops, but I'm with Darren. It would have been amazing to see what choice, if we would have simply made the choice to just go, it's not like they were saying you can't have it.

3:25:05BubblemanThey were just saying go, Do it at a different place. Stanley Park's pretty beautiful.

3:25:14AaronAnd not to downplay the guys that were fucking front line, putting their faces in there and going for it. Like, good for you guys, man. I'm proud of everything. But I just, my question would be, what if we did it differently? Because it just sort of happened. All of a sudden it was chaos. As soon as I was there for fucking three minutes, I seen Jeff, big Jeff, What up?

3:25:36AaronShook his hand, said hello, and then all of a sudden, boom, chaos. I pulled my phone out and started filming. It's the only thing I could do because I go to jail, man. They don't let me out. They don't give me bail. I go to jail when they fucking get a hold of me. That's it. So I didn't feel like going to jail that day myself.

3:25:56BubblemanWell, not to protest the right for a bunch of people to come sell herb out on the sidewalk in booths. Not for that. That's like, man, I'll protest for dispensaries and for medical patients, but not like on Canada. It just, I don't know. It just seemed like I was minorly bummed. I was big time bummed for the cops being like utter and complete douchebags, pepper spraying people and arresting people.

3:26:24BubblemanBut at the same time, I just didn't feel like it was our finest moment.

3:26:30AaronI think we should really practice just the proper protocol, right? I don't know what that protocol would be, but maybe people need to get together before these events and get it out there. You know what?

3:26:48BubblemanMaybe the events could be real events. They could really be like a serious, like, man, like the amount of people that want to come and gather and, you know, the Emery's and cannabis culture, they've always known how to throw an event. Even though it started as protest, it's been happening for so long that they've become good at throwing events. So it's like, fuck, let's do it. Let's get a permit.

3:27:09BubblemanLet's get a fucking, let's have an event. Let's have many events. You know, get the word out and let people feel safe. Every year in the past, Vancouver cops have stood there and done nothing. Now, we fought for dispensaries and the city gave us dispensaries, but then on a side note, probably at that meeting, someone was like, okay, yeah, they can have dispensaries, but so let's make it now so they don't have to go sell weed out in front of the art gallery because it's already available.

3:27:38BubblemanWhy do you have to sell it in an open public forum with no license when you just fought and protested for the right to sell in license dispensaries?

3:27:53BubblemanI wish someone had the other perspective right now and they could tell me why because I could be wrong. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying what I'm saying right now is right. I just see it as a perspective like, We fought to get to a level, and then when we got to that level, we should have realized that, oh, okay, well, now we're not here anymore.

3:28:11BubblemanWe're over here at a different level, and we just have to operate accordingly as we...

3:28:17AaronAnd you know, I was caught up in the mob mentality of it too, like, fuck the police and everything, right?

3:28:24BubblemanWell, that was the part that was the most, that I didn't, some of the things that were screamed in the background just didn't seem like, it just, it was, I mean, I know, I've been there, I've been there when the police are getting rowdy and rough and it's intense. It just, it's, you know.

3:28:40SpeakerI hate to judge on it, but it just seemed like, Pushing for the, no, they won't tell us to do the anarchy position. They won't tell us, if anything they tell us, if it changes us doing what we want, we'll make an issue of it. It seemed to be trying to draw the police into becoming that police state monster. So when an incident occurs, you set yourself up when it's like, I'm going to sow weed openly.

3:29:07SpeakerAnd they're like, okay, I'm sorry, I have to arrest you. You can't do that to him. You know, that's the setup.

3:29:13BubblemanHe didn't even ask to arrest him. He said, you've got to stop selling herb openly or I'll arrest you. It's actually on video. And then Neil says, you should just walk away right now. Like that was the quote that he said to the cop. He was like, I am going to continue to openly sell herb here on the street. Which was like, oh, like you put that cop in a bad situation when you said that to him.

3:29:37BubblemanPlus now the cops are like, they're cops. It's like, do you really want to like, Even at the events where the cops haven't protested, I have been arrested before, so I'm just generally paranoid around cops. I know that it can just go from zero to 60 in a heartbeat, and I really hate that experience. I hated to see it in Vancouver the day after Oregon was celebrating that you could buy herb and hashes there.

3:30:03BubblemanWe were getting arrested by the police at what's always been a peaceful protest.

3:30:16BubblemanIt's a changing world very fast, that's for sure.

3:30:21Etienne FontanHey Rob, you look like you have a question. Do you have a question?

3:30:34BubblemanRob's just chilling and enjoying. I'm going to pretty much call it a day here on that note actually because I need to get myself going with the family here. I did appreciate everyone coming in and sharing their time and sharing their perspectives. And I'll finish it off with telling you guys about this guy that I just got turned on to. I don't have cable, but he's got some.

3:30:55BubblemanHe was a host of some show called Brain Nerds, maybe, or Brain Something. His name's Jason Silva. And I'll finish it with, he's got a concept, you can Google it on YouTube, called radical openness. And I think that it's really what Hash Church is kind of about. It's about just Having dialogue, having ideas, and having them go back and forth, and he's talking about how these ideas themselves can actually, you know, almost procreate in a sex-type manner where those ideas then have ideas and give birth to new ideas.

3:31:28BubblemanAnd I just appreciate you guys coming in and sharing your perspectives and your ideas, and I hope that you continue to do so, and we'll see you guys all in one week, seven days, for Hash Church 42. Thanks for coming in, everybody. Much love.