Chalice Festival Recap, Rosin at Events and Solventless Revolution

0:05BubblemanHey everybody, welcome to Hash Church, Hash Church episode 42. Can you believe we're already at episode 42? It's quite something. I'm going to send out the links here real quick to the crew. See if we can get them all sent out. Always doing these emails is always the busiest part of the morning for me, just getting all the invitations sent out and I think I sent that invitation out properly, but it's possible that it just got erased.

0:36BubblemanSo I'm going to try again for the Facebook link. We'll see what happens here. Let's see if we can't make it happen. Internet sure slowed down here. Let's see. Did it mess up? Did it mess up? I think it did, guys. I think we're going to have to send those all over again. Of course, none of the...

0:58BubblemanWell, you know what? Let's just do Hash Church Just Us. Forget everyone else. I'm going to have to turn off one of these computers. I thought I could get them both going. Let's see what we got here. Sorry about the delay, guys.

1:15BubblemanBut I try to have this all organized, but you wouldn't believe how damn near next to impossible it is to have organized just to send out a simple link. Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:51BubblemanAll right, let's see if that one went through this time. I had it all set up, so I had 20 different names that I have to find each time. I don't actually have them saved, which would be quite smart. And I sent the email this morning. I went to send the message, and it just erased, and it didn't actually send. So hopefully we'll see some friends in here sooner than later.

2:13Etienne FontanOh, there's Etienne.

2:15BubblemanGood morning. You've got the backlit like me, buddy.

2:17Etienne FontanYeah, we are back lit here. I'll have to work on that for a second. Here in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Good morning, Rob. So yeah, we got a house up here for Chalice and we're just kind of chill up in here in the mountains before we head down. I'll turn around so I'm not so back lit.

2:42BubblemanI'm excited to hear about Chalice for sure. It seems like it is the premier event for our scene these days.

2:50Etienne FontanWithout a doubt. Dougie and them have really stepped up and have thrown the gauntlet down to everyone else. So I'm going to turn it over here on the side. Yeah, thousands of people. The weather has been really great. It wasn't too hot. It wasn't too cold. I got one for sure. There we go. It's a little better. Want to thank everybody for giving us the love. So many people gave us past church shout-outs and a lot of love.

3:16BubblemanYeah?

3:17Etienne FontanThanks to everybody. Yeah, man. I mean, many, many people came coming up to us and saying, hey, thanks for what you're doing. Thanks for Bubble Man and everybody what they're doing.

3:26SpeakerAnd, you know, keep up the good work.

3:29Etienne FontanSo thanks, everybody.

3:33Etienne FontanAnd we're going to go back and do it again today. Mila. I got to meet Scott Deppie from Mothership last night, and it's been quite an amazing trip all in all for everybody. That's awesome, dude.

3:49BubblemanI have to admit, I would love to be there. There's no doubt about it. I would love to be at Chalice right now. You guys are awesome. Very lucky to be able to just, you know, be in the country that you're in right now for such an event. I would love it.

4:04Etienne FontanThat's what we were talking about excitedly yesterday. It was, you know, sitting there 20 years ago, we were wondering, wow, it would be great if something like this could happen and to actually be at an event 20 years later and it's actually happening today. Police walk around. No one's giving a shit. Everyone's dabbing everywhere. Everyone's pressing rosin. Got to meet the guy from Soil Grown who invented rosin.

4:28Etienne FontanAnd this is his stuff right here, which I'm starting off the morning dab with. Because shit's been amazing. Everyone's pressing fresh rosin on the spot and then ripping it out for you to see. And it's pressed from bud. So yeah, it's an amazing scene. You're missing here, so are the other Canadian peeps because everybody who's anybody in cannabis and hash seems to be here. We were hanging out with Frenchie Cannoli yesterday and we're all in Aaron from DNA Seeds and it's just been a shitload of fun seeing everybody and smoking with them and sampling all their wares and again, eating mothership.

5:09Etienne FontanTodd's waking up and everybody's kind of waking up in the house and we'll be popping in throughout the The time. So, thanks a lot, everybody.

5:16BubblemanDid you see the Deppie in the gray piece? The skull?

5:23SpeakerYeah, with the roads on the top.

5:25Etienne FontanYeah, the Grateful Dead one was pretty amazing.

5:27SpeakerOh, I never even saw that one yet.

5:29Etienne FontanNo, we have not seen the green one. Deppie got in the fight last night, apparently. So, we got, right as we were leaving, he just got in, and basically the mothership booth was tore down. Nobody was dabbing anymore. But, so he hasn't really brought stuff out, so probably we'll be out today. So, hey Nate, good to see you and dab with you yesterday as well.

5:53SpeakerYeah, it was awesome. I ran into ATN under one of the misting areas that Hitman had put up, which was a lifesaver in the middle of the heat. There's a big covered area that's misting everybody with some table set up you could dab at. I run into ATN and Rob Clark and Todd and Kenny from Tricombe, and it was quite the crowd that we were dabbing with.

6:21Etienne FontanThat's awesome.

6:24Etienne FontanYeah, Marcus, you've got to make for sure next year you've got to be here.

6:28BubblemanWell, dude, you know I would love to make it. I'm absolutely bummed that I can't, but it's just that U.S. border, you know. I don't want to do anything at all. I mean, for example, if you guys want to hear a quick chalice nightmare story... My friend William from The Grow Room, he has these beautiful hats. They're hand painted and they're just, I mean, they're exceptional. The quality of them is really great and the paintings are all one of a kind.

6:55BubblemanHe had 13 of these hats custom painted to bring to Chalice so that he could sell them and just pay for his tickets. And I guess, you know, U.S. Customs had a whole other plan. They Thank you for joining us.

7:32BubblemanWilliam is super bummed this morning. I talked to him just briefly and I felt really bad for him too. It's unfortunate that we're still not there quite yet. It's amazing that an event like Chalice can happen, but boy, there's still these entry points into the country to try and get in. And that's where they're keeping a lot of us out, unfortunately. So I was sad to hear that.

7:59Etienne FontanThe very few places like where we are having chalice to do. I mean, there's only a handful of places in the United States that this could even happen at, if even that many. So to have that many people sitting around getting high, sharing, and no one being harassed or shaken down, they're only shaking you down at the front door for alcohol. They're just looking for alcohol. Great.

8:21Etienne FontanWe're all cool with that because we heard the security was complaining because nobody was drunk and fighting and they didn't really have much to do. They were bored because all the stoners were relaxed and chill. So way to go, Swami.

8:35BubblemanThat's awesome.

8:37Etienne FontanHey, welcome.

8:38SpeakerI ran into Jen Doe in the backstage area and she rolled a pure hash joint that was fatter than this joint here. And it was her and Bobby Nuggs that were masterminding it. The whole thing. And it hit like a champ. So kudos, Jen, if you're watching. It was amazing.

8:59Etienne FontanYeah, Jen, if you're out there, we need to hook up. We'll be out there today.

9:04BubblemanShe contacted me yesterday and said that she might contact Hash Church today through Weedmaps or something.

9:13SpeakerYeah, we were trying to get that done. I couldn't get a hold of Dougie, and the internet at that venue is just really bad. So I'm not sure if it's going to come through, but we're going to try once we get down there to maybe jump in the backstage area and come together with a couple different of us.

9:30BubblemanWell, that'd be cool. It's beautiful. I guess any amount that we can see, we're happy to see. I've been enjoying the pictures and enjoying all the glass. Man, we need more great events like... Like that.

9:46Etienne FontanAll the glass.

9:47SpeakerYeah, I plan to periscope a little bit more today walking around to show it off, so if anybody's out there on periscope, make sure to tune in.

9:55Etienne FontanYep, I was periscoping too. ATN 420 on periscope. I'll be also periscoping throughout the day because just so much cool stuff going on and everything's just really popping off. I mean, it's...

10:09BubblemanSo, ATN.

10:09Etienne FontanGotta give much love to Doug from Hitman Glass. I mean, he... I know he had a hard time last year, but he really got it together this year and has really pulled off an event.

10:21SpeakerBesides the Cuban, what was your favorite hash you ran into yesterday, ATN?

10:27Etienne FontanOoh, there were quite a few. The rosins were quite amazing. I have to say this stuff from Soil Grown, the turps in it, the way that he is, he says he's pressing three buds at a time to make this stuff. Yeah. It retails for approximately $90 a gram, I'm told. And this stuff is fire. I mean, honestly, real, real fire. And I've had, I mean, I had some of Frenchie's Crest Hash, which was amazeballs.

10:58Etienne FontanSo, I mean, it's hard to just pick one. There's just so much diverse, wonderful cannabis. The diversity of rosin that's out there. Oh, yeah, doing the spoiled stuff, too, for sure. Got the terp.

11:10SpeakerThis is the Raw Hashish by the Raw Gardener. This is their Pineapple 73. Nice. They had some amazing, amazing looking hash. Really blonde. This is another one that I got from them. This is the Forum Cookies 73. I don't want to spill it.

11:38BubblemanDon't be spilling the 73, Nick.

11:40Etienne FontanYeah, I had some nice 73 yesterday. I can't remember the guys' names. They're actually here in Hash Church. We got to burn with multiple Hash Church members yesterday. They had a very nice climb, and we hit this beautiful dry sea. In fact, it's right here.

11:58SpeakerYou're not spilling that, though.

12:00Etienne FontanYeah, no. This stuff is way too sticky.

12:05BubblemanYeah. Hash Church Celebrities at Chalice, hey, just got people running up to you with hash.

12:12Etienne FontanIt's really interesting. I'm not used to having people come up to me, and quite a few people just come up just to say, hey, some wanted to smoke with us, but people are being so cool, so respectful, so thank you guys so much. You have a very large audience there, Mr. Bubble Man, for your site, needless to say. People were just giving you nothing but love as well, so know that you've been much appreciated.

12:34Etienne FontanAnd Ray Show, people want to try your shit, too. And Mark, your name's been dropped as well, so when are you going to get down here, Horatio?

12:41SpeakerNot to have anybody, nobody had anything nice to say.

12:47BubblemanAll nice. I get messages about all of you guys all the time. So one thing I will urge you guys to do, which you might not be used to doing, and I'm not saying that you don't or do do it, but one thing is... Is that the reason this is a cool thing is because we communicate. We keep the chat open. It's not just us talking. We're involving the people that are watching.

13:10BubblemanSo when people message you or text you through your social media and they have a question, I definitely urge you to go out of your way and answer that question. I know it's a pain in the ass a lot of times when you start getting a lot of questions, but keeping the dialogue going is what's going to keep people really... Keep them interested. I mean, people want to be a part of things, and if they can't be a part of things, then it's not quite as fun.

13:35BubblemanSo that's why I've got the chat open right now. Hillbilly Hip Stage is saying for real. Jason Cohen, Hash Church Live. I won't say what Mr. Fucker just said, but it was a bit rude. Check out my purple card. He might be a little retentive there. He's Mr. Fucker. That's an interesting name. Not quite as bad as Moldy Turds, but it's interesting what the names people choose for themselves when they decide that they're going to go represent themselves on the internet.

14:07BubblemanAnd welcome Horatio and Mark Scaldone to the chat room today.

14:12HoratioI was just remembering Slurpin' My Dick from the first days and one of the first names that got shouted out and I saw the name today and I was like, that guy still has that name? That's amazing.

14:23BubblemanWell, listen, maybe we can help out the Grow Room for the situation that they went through. I would love... To get their hats that these guys have for sale that they were going to sell at Chalice, it would be really great to still give that opportunity to people. I don't know if William is interested in that. He is sitting in chat. Oh, don't be sorry, Mr. Fucker.

14:43BubblemanI thought it was hilarious. I would just tell William that if he wants us to, we will gladly auction off his hats through Hash Church or we will help get these hats sold because honestly, they're wicked fucking hats. I'm telling you, they're really... High quality, nice hats, and with the hand-painted version, he's got these little guys like holding torches, and he's got them holding buds and seeds, and they're really cool hats.

15:09BubblemanSo I'll see if he wants to hit me up later with that, and we'll try and find a way to get those hats moved for them.

15:21BubblemanAll right, there we go. We need, yes, Grow Room says we need So perhaps I can get those pictures and I'll post them in the hash church and we'll do a little grow room hat auction. It would be cool to do an auction so people bid rather than just put them for a certain price because A, the grow room guys put a lot of money into flying to the U.S. and by getting turned around and sent back to Brazil, that was like a double, triple hit for them.

15:48BubblemanSo those are our Brazilian family. We're going to take care of those guys. We're going to help move those hats. Fuck, I'll bid on one of those hats. There's a couple that I like. The lion one, he had one that was like a Lion of Judah kind of bud character. Very cool. I'll bid. Since when are hats against the law?

16:06SpeakerSince when you put a pot leaf on them, of course. That's bullshit. You think? Come on. Get an attorney on that thing. They could make a lot of money with that. That's bullshit.

16:19BubblemanChicago, man. Chicago. They don't fuck around.

16:26HoratioI've got a question for you, Dr. Mark. This week, I guess, it's been all about the race to CBN, and obviously a lot of people are like, well, there's no problem creating CBN, it's just called crap. But creating concentrated CBN to actually produce an effect is actually hard. For someone like me, who's a very strong-willed person, it doesn't make me go to sleep just having black... Good at that.

16:54HoratioI've been trying to concentrate it and concentrate it and refine out of, you could say, the dark mass all of the things possible that interfere with that concentration because people say they get headaches, people say they still barf, and I know those are usually contaminants. But one of my concerns, I remember a long time ago you mentioning prolonged heating of cannabinoids can cause their polymerization. And as I keep getting this more and more concentrated thing I'm hoping to be CBN that I'll eat at the end of the day, I find that for something that is completely decarboxylated, the more refined it, the more it behaves like a polymer.

17:34HoratioIt's just more and more stable to the point I'm like, I don't know if people should be eating this. Maybe this isn't CBN. Maybe this is cannabinoid plastic.

17:43SpeakerYes. So I actually reported that he could quantitatively convert THC directly to CBN by treating it with sulfur. Again, sulfur is a pretty good, it's an oxidation that needs to happen. I mean, going from the methylcyclohexene ring to the fully aromatic ring, the top piece of the chicken wire when you're looking at the structure, in order for that to happen, something has to accept the hydrogen molecule that's given off in that oxidation process.

18:22SpeakerThank you so much for joining us today.

18:52SpeakerAll of the THC, the CBN, if you decide to do it with air, air will do it. It'll just take a long time and probably a higher temperature than sulfur would, but you don't want to add sulfur. And there's probably other ways that you can do it. Again, there's compounds that... El Soli reported as being new cannabinoids that were isolated. I believe that those are the intermediates in between THC and CBN and that those are formed microbially from just microbes that exist ubiquitously in nature.

19:33SpeakerThat doesn't mean that your weed's contaminated or anything. These are just bugs that are all around us that exist on our skin, exist You know, everywhere, we live in a microbial world, and as soon as you harvest a plant, the degradation of a lot of those molecules starts to happen at a slow rate. You could increase the rate by just heating it up, or again... Micro-ubiquitous nature...

20:12BubblemanOh, are we frozen? Did Mark freeze up?

20:17Etienne FontanI think Mark did freeze up.

20:18BubblemanOkay, I just wanted to welcome Barry into the room, Casey, and welcome William into the room from Grow Room, who we were talking about earlier. I thought we could invite him in just so, not to go on about the negative and talk about the border, because we know how much they suck, but just to sort of turn it around into a positive Let everyone know a little bit about Grow Room and let everyone know where they can start bidding on these hats.

20:47BubblemanWe can set up a little bidding auction. And I had to mute you there, William. Sorry, your mic was reverberating.

20:59BarryOh.

21:03BubblemanAll right. We're good, guys?

21:08BubblemanYes, yeah, we hear you.

21:11SpeakerYeah, that sucked, man. We took the plane here, we went to America, and then he has seen my tattoo, and he started asking if I drink marijuana, if I smoke marijuana, and we had a box with 25 t-shirts from Grow Room that I wanted to give some people and to sell some. And then they asked if I smoke. I said, yeah, sometimes. And when was the last time you smoked?

21:44SpeakerAnd they said, yeah, last week. And then he opened our luggage, and my laptop is full of stickers from many brands with leaves and don't smoke, cheap pot. And he told me everything related here to cannabis, where are you going? We are going to a festival. Oh, do you want to sell your stuff at the festival? No, no, we just want to give people, yeah, and then they took our mobile, searched everything, found pictures that we were smoking, and yeah, and then they brought us to a small room, we stayed there like 16 hours, and Yeah, and to make everything shorter, they sent us back to Brazil.

22:41SpeakerWe wanted to show the head scene at Chalice because it's also an art festival. We thought it would be perfect for there, but we were unable to reach Los Angeles, and now we are here. With the hats and with a bill to pay for the tickets.

23:07BubblemanYeah, that sucks, dude. That's what happens to me when I try to go to the U.S. as well. I used to think it was my long hair, but then I think they just saw it in my eyes. Or perhaps it was my felony records. I don't know. But I'm sorry to hear that that happened to you. Do you have any of those hats there that you can show?

23:26SpeakerSo you can check at growroom.net slash cows with U. C-A-U-S. Oh, okay.

23:37BubblemanSo let's repeat that again. That is growroom.net or .com?

23:42Speaker.net.

23:44BubblemanYes, growroom.net backslash cows.

23:49SpeakerYes, C-A-U-S.

23:52BubblemanB-A-U-S. Okay, awesome. I'll try to put that as well into the chat room that everyone's watching right now. We have 495 people paying attention, so grow room.

24:04SpeakerOne of the hats is this one, but the collection that we made, it's like yours. It's more the style of yours. And as you told already, different with the bomb, with the torch, with the seed germinating. All right.

24:23BubblemanJohnny M in chat says, he says, don't do illegal activity in the U.S. and you won't be denied. And I'm just saying, well, that's not really the truth. All you have to do is tell them at the border that you smoke cannabis, and that's enough for them at the U.S. border, believe it or not, to deny you entry into the country if you tell them. We had a big news story on this that happened because this woman, I think she was like a news anchor or she was some, she was a pretty straight mainstream person, but she went through the border and her job dictated that she goes over the border.

25:01BubblemanThis was big news in BC about maybe six months ago. And they just randomly asked her if she'd ever smoked pot and she said yes. She didn't say she smoked pot, she just said she had smoked pot. And that dude stamped her denied And basically, it was pretty trippy because the situation was that in the same week our future prime minister, Justin Trudeau, he had said that he had smoked pot in the past.

25:30BubblemanAnd so what people were wondering was now that he had admitted that on TV in an interview, would the U.S. deem him unworthy and stop allowing him to go into the country? Because he's literally going to be like our prime minister today. You know, in a very short period of time. It's very likely anyway. It would be interesting to see if they would give the rule to him like that as well the way they would to any other person.

25:55SpeakerMark, we don't even keep our presidents out of office when they admit to smoking weed. I can't imagine we're going to stop. We don't even keep...

26:36BubblemanAll right, William, show your picture there. That's beautiful.

26:42BubblemanIs that by the same artist?

26:45BubblemanMy mute's miked, Etienne. My mute is miked.

26:54SpeakerYeah, sorry. We have like 20 canvas like this, bigger and smaller too. This one is painted with fluor ink, so it glows in the dark. And very nice work, but we couldn't show because of the guys on the board, the pigs.

27:21BubblemanOh, yeah. Very nice. Sorry that that happened. That just sucks. And I would say that the same thing would definitely happen in Canada. We're pretty much no different. Our border is pretty rough.

27:34BarryI think the key lesson from this is to send your stuff in advance and then hit the border like a normal tourist and don't ever mention cannabis.

27:43BubblemanThis is definitely the good way to do it. However, William has the words Grow Room tattooed right on his knuckles. He might have to maybe use some of that L'Oreal cover-up for the border.

28:02BarryPretend this is something different.

28:04BubblemanIt is a crazy situation, you know, guys, in the sense that I feel like we're on this locomotive, like traveling, blowing away all the rules that they're trying to keep us down with, and yet, you know, you look over your shoulder every once in a while and you see these things that are still happening that are just I mean, what's the purpose to do that to someone?

28:26BubblemanWhat's the purpose to create that much stress and anxiety? And why do you have to put them in a little room for 16 hours? And just the whole sort of psychological ramifications. I've always thought of the energy that is... Energy seems to not ever dissipate or be killed, if you will. Energy continues on. And I wonder... The energy of prayer, I always wondered when religion, you know, sure it was to control people, but it seemed like there was also a level of that energy of prayer and the people praying kind of thinking they know where it's going, but the people creating it kind of, you know, taking that energy.

29:06BubblemanIt's just a bummer that people would want to produce stress and anxiety in the world. It seems as though Demons are in charge of this agenda and that they feed on human anguish like junkies feed on heroin.

29:23SpeakerYeah. There was a police guy that stayed like 12 hours following our work. He could be doing something. Baron really worked searching for a terrorist or I don't know, for a real criminal, for someone that's really dangerous, not for someone with art.

29:49BubblemanYou mean like the head of the Mexican cartel, El Guapo? Chapo or whatever his name is? The dude that just escaped federal maximum penitentiary in Mexico? You mean like that guy?

30:06SpeakerYeah, maybe. Maybe, but definitely not persons like us that are inoffensive.

30:18BubblemanYou know what, William? I wanted to go to Chalice so bad as well. I love the idea. I've been talking to Doug about it. He asked if I wanted to do some judging for it some months ago, and I was honored and thought, man, this is like the first time. I think it was the first time anyone asked me to do some judging. So I was like, fuck yeah, I'll check this out.

30:38BubblemanBut I just got paranoid, and not so much paranoid like what they did to you, because to me, I was getting used to that. I thought, well, that's not so bad, just getting held in a room for 20 hours and then sent away. My worry later on in life became that they would not let you go, like that they were like, oh, geez, yeah, we've got sealed indictments for you.

31:00BubblemanYou've been showing people how to make cash in all the wrong states, like. We got a nice little cozy cage for you for like a 10 spot. That was my paranoia all the time of like I don't feel that in any other country that I visit, but I've always felt it at the U.S. border, the strangest like this weird in-between land where you have zero rights and yeah, it's a full form of control.

31:25BubblemanIt's scary to have someone be that in control of you.

31:29SpeakerYeah, yeah. And When something happens to me, I face already a lot of oppression in Brazil because I am one of the first organizers of the marijuana march. We have already faced a lot of problems with the marijuana march in the past. It was illegal. We struggle here. We bring the case to the Supreme Court and we want the rights. So I was almost arrested many times also because of the coup that I organized in Brazil.

32:00SpeakerBut I wasn't in my country. In my country, I know the laws. I know whom I can call lawyers to help me. But I was in America, another language, another law, and I couldn't call anyone. So it was really one of my worst experiences in life, man. I don't know if I want also to come back to America. I don't think I have... I have lost my visa, but they thought that I can become a weaver and come back, but I don't know.

32:37SpeakerI think I will go to Uruguay. It's here beside Brazil, and maybe there I can relax.

32:47BubblemanI would say don't give up on America because that's what just customs wants you to do. So it's like I personally won't give up on America. Some of my best friends live in America and there's all sorts of amazing events and places that I want to spend time in in America. I'm just kind of waiting for enough states to adopt a medical cannabis program and eventually a recreational medical Thank you so much for joining us.

33:32BubblemanWhy not go back to being that greatest country on earth type of thing and just being like lead by example and be like let everyone out of jail who has a cannabis conviction fucking wipe all the records for all the people that have cannabis convictions.

33:48SpeakerSo, I just want, on this topic, Dr. Dina has a booth and she has something called the Commissary Challenge going on. So you can go and donate $3 for a slushie, which is amazing in the 95 degree weather, and all the proceeds go to commissary bills for Lifetime cannabis charges. Lifetime sentences for cannabis crimes.

34:15BubblemanWell, that's incredible. That's pretty amazing. Can people that are watching Hash Church find out about a website or a link?

34:24SpeakerI did not see a link. I'm sure Dr. Dina has something on her website. I'll try to get some more information about it and post it in the Facebook Hash Church page.

34:35BubblemanYeah, tell her, I mean, I can contact her as well, but if you see her today, let her know that we'd love to hear more about that, because I think that's a pretty awesome thing right there. What you might not know about the U.S. prison system and the privatization of the prison system is that they are concrete slave ships that hold a massive workforce, 2 million strong, 8 to 10 hours a day, getting paid pennies on the dollar, and The amount of profit margin that that produces and then how twisted it is, the commissaries, the things that Nick's talking about, the things that you would spend money on are extremely inflated and cost a lot.

35:15BubblemanSo they pay them pennies but then they get all that money, a lot of it back by selling them things at an inflated price. It's really a terrible system. It should be exposed and it should be changed. I mean, geez.

35:33BubblemanIt's William Schoenberg. Growroom.net cows. Excellent. Thank you, William. That's a great way to do that. He's thinking. Well, I still wish I was at Chalice with all of you guys. I'm telling you. It doesn't help when guys like Todd are like, oh, yeah, anytime you come to the U.S., you can hang out at my place. And then he's like taking epic pictures off his deck every day, and I'm seeing them like, oh, I can't go to the U.S.

35:59BubblemanBut don't give up on the U.S., William. It's not the U.S. who... I love the U.S.

36:07SpeakerI have many friends in the U.S. I have been there five times already but you really get scared. I have been strong for too long but Sometimes when that happens to you, yeah, you get a little bit weak, but yeah, I will get better.

36:38BubblemanWell, it makes us stronger, I'll tell you. I mean, it would be interesting one day if we had no fight, what we would do. Like if we were just allowed everything the way we wanted it, it would be, I guess they call it a utopian living, but...

36:57Etienne FontanWell, that's kind of what we're seeing here at Chalice is what we were talking about earlier is that there is a freedom to be and everybody is allowed to be. You're being shaken down for alcohol, which is the complete opposite of every other venue we go to. We get shaken down as we all become professional packers and stashers, you know, as we go to any event basically for marijuana in the past.

37:19Etienne FontanSo to actually to go in freely and not be harassed and shaken down It was quite refreshing to be here in California and then secondly in the United States on top of it. It's quite an amazing expression in freedom and we elders are kind of sitting back and watching with excitement to see what is happening and how responsible these generations are going to handle it. They're doing pretty well.

37:52BubblemanAbsolutely. Oh, someone needs to... I like that you have the bong in front of you. You got the joint lit. You remind me of my friend Kiddus, who every time he comes up to take a dab, he's got a big spliff in his mouth. And usually, almost every time, right before he takes the dab, he'll be like... All right. Coming up to the stem of the mouthpiece of the bong, exhaling his... You know, that's just hardcore in the best of ways.

38:19BubblemanFor those of you that don't know about Kiddus, check out his music on iTunes or Spotify or even YouTube. K-I-D-D-U-S and then the letter I in capitals. He's great. Some of my favorites, Salvation, Topsy Turvy World, Spiritual Warriors, that's the track right there.

38:45BubblemanSo we had to kick someone out of chat. He was being pretty negative. It was getting pretty bad. He was using negative derogatory curse words and such.

38:54Etienne FontanNo need for any of that madness now. We're being respectful.

38:57BubblemanYeah, but you know what? I swear those are the only people I ever block. And then in two months, some guy will be like, hey, man, why am I blocked on YouTube? I'm guessing bipolar or something. And I'll be like, I don't know. Were you calling everyone faggots and telling us all that you wanted to kill us and saying shit like that? No, man, I swear I would never do that.

39:14BubblemanAnd I'm like, well, that's weird, because I'm pretty sure the only people I block and delete out of the chat room are generally hating hard. We'll see.

39:23Etienne FontanAnd on top of that, you're the only one who can ban. It's not like anybody else can. You know what I'm saying?

39:27BubblemanNo, exactly. And I'm not going through there just banning people for no reason. I don't want to be banning people at all. In fact, I prefer having the conversation. And a while back, I had a conversation on Periscope. Thanks, Todd, for turning me on to that again. And it ended up being a guy in the room, he wasn't really being a hater, but let's just say he was fully not supportive, and he questioned every single thing I said.

39:53BubblemanAnd as, you know, I told him, hey, you know, get on your computer, start Googling some of these things, and he started asking questions. At first he just thought we were all insane, and, oh, you guys are just smoking, uh, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're just all high. And I eventually sort of started explaining the medicinal benefits and the recreational benefits and even the preventative benefits.

40:12BubblemanAnd as he started Googling and checking things out, I mean, we really turned this guy's mind around. And not to mention, his questions made the Periscope actually a value of knowledge because I would have never thought to say those things in a room full of people that already agreed with them.

40:31Etienne FontanWell, you're never going to make everybody happy anyway. You're doing the best you can with what you got, so much respect, man.

40:37BubblemanYeah, that's it. Do the best you can. I think that's one of the four agreements. Manuel Ruiz, I think his name is. You ever read the four agreements, guys? Really great... Great, easy thing to follow. I think it's, let's see, it's don't take things personally, which is a really hard one to do, but it creates most of the drama in your life. Be impeccable with your word, which is super hard, too, because we always tend to, like, even earlier we were bitching about Canada Customs.

41:02BubblemanThat's not really being, or U.S. Customs, it's not really being impeccable with your word. Don't take things personally. Be impeccable with your word. Do your best. I can't remember what the fourth one is, but look it up. Google the four agreements. They're there.

41:17Etienne FontanRob says never eat anything larger than your head. What's that? Rob says don't eat anything larger than your head.

41:28BubblemanYou know what? I imagine the first time he said that, he was so high on acid.

41:35SpeakerAnd also, and he never imagined what a cow looked like when he was eating his burger, I guess, because last time I checked, it's slightly larger than his head. I actually ripped off the Fireside Theater for that. Should have edited their mistakes, Rob. Well, everything's better than my head.

41:54BubblemanI like, William's got the good style with the showing his addresses. We've got to get on that shit. Check us out. There's all sorts of different ways to check the people out in this chat. They all have Instagrams and Facebooks and Twitter feeds and... You know, if you guys want to let everyone know what those are, why not? Now is as good a time as any. We'll start with Casey, then Etienne, then Horatio.

42:21SpeakerThank you for the support that you are giving us. I really appreciate it.

42:35SpeakerI really appreciate it. I got to leave now because I got to do some stuff here at home. Okay. But thank you so much, bro. Thank you so much. Thank you for the support from everybody. Thank you.

42:50BubblemanWe'll talk soon and we'll get that link up so everyone can auction off those hats and get some good dollars back in your pocket. These are killer hats.

43:01SpeakerYeah, yeah, let's make it. I will let you know. I will talk to you later so we can organize this auction, and we will let everybody know about the auction. Thank you for the support again, Marcus. Awesome, man. Have a good one.

43:17BubblemanBye-bye. Now we'll start with Casey, Etienne, and then Horatio. Share your Instagrams and such so people can know where to find you.

43:25BarryYeah, you can find me on Instagram, True Canna Genetics. And also OCD.Labs. So yeah, check me out on Instagram with those. And also more in-depth flows on forums like Canna Collective and ICMag. So yeah, that's me.

43:46Etienne FontanAwesome. I am ATN420, which is the letters A-T-N-420 on Instagram, Periscope, and Facebook. And that's how you can reach me. Much love.

44:00HoratioYou can find me on Instagram at HDC underscore LHO. And Facebook, just start trying to spell Horatio with an H and an O, and it'll put the rest together. I see a lot of people spelling it H-E-R, and I'm like, you're not going to find me Horatio. But everyone will eventually get it.

44:22BubblemanPerfect. Well, your name is right there under your video, Horatio Delbert, spelled and everything. What about you, Mr. Mark?

44:32SpeakerMark Sheldon, I'm on Facebook, but you can email me at mark at vapeholdings.com. My new employer.

44:39BubblemanYou're going to be getting some emails. Nick!

44:46BubblemanNick, how do we get a hold of you? How do they see you, Nick? How do they find you? Instagrams and Facebooks and all that?

44:52SpeakerI'm at nb underscore cannabid...

45:03SpeakerSame thing, Facebook, backslash, Nick Bradley Cannabis, no spaces.

45:11BubblemanAll right. Todd. Mr. Todd. He's got his mouth full, but he can tell us.

45:19SpeakerYou can find my website at hemp.xxx. You can find me on Twitter at hemp.xxx. On Instagram at hemp. XXX. And if you're looking for us on Facebook, it's just Facebook.com slash Hemp Helps. Pretty easy stuff. And also, while I'm here, Kenny can be found at Tricrom Technologies on Instagram. And Rob's new Instagram is Cannabis EBO for Cannabis Evolution. Yes, we'll be adding more photos from the book Cannabis Evolution and Ethnobotany as soon as I'm not so stoned.

46:03BubblemanYes, and you can also go and like their Facebook pages, Tricom Technologies and Robert Connell Clark. We'll give them some love. And I can be found at bcbubbleman on Instagram and Twitter, bubbleman on Facebook.

46:17SpeakerTurn on your volume though because I don't have my volume on.

46:20BubblemanLeave your volume on. It shouldn't be. Oh. I had no idea you were there, Kay.

46:26SpeakerHey, Mark. How are you? How's your day?

46:28BubblemanVery good. You know, I was just going to say when Todd said, and Kay can be found, I was going to say, well, he should be found in Hash Church. That's where Kay should be found.

46:38SpeakerI am sitting in this thing this morning. And he can often be found next to me.

46:44BubblemanYou guys have the good squad over there this morning, don't you?

46:48SpeakerNo doubt. Oh, yeah. This is not bad at all.

46:52BubblemanThat's awesome. Well, it's nice that you guys can come in and share the vibes, you know, with the 600 plus past churchers that seem to tune in every week and want to listen to the random things that we say.

47:04SpeakerWe haven't even used the pool table yet. Well, I'm sure that's going to happen. Probably not considering we're checking out at 11. We spend all our time dabbing and talking. What geeks are we, you know?

47:17BubblemanWell, there's importance in dabbing and talking. You know, it's funny because I think really that's all Hash Church is.

47:25Etienne FontanYeah, pretty much, yeah. People are saying love, care, and gifts and peace. Yeah. Thank you very much for providing this forum, Mark. It's really incredible to watch.

47:36BubblemanWell, you know what? Everyone thanks me all the time, but I have to say it's really all of you guys that people are tuning in for. Like, I have a channel, and I have videos that's just me. But Hash Church is definitely, I always knew that I was doing the YouTube video for a reason. I just didn't know exactly what reason it was for. And when I saw that it could be either like, there were two options.

47:58BubblemanI could take the traction, you know, keep it to myself and build it on my own brand and label. Or I could maybe do something a little bit bigger and better. And hopefully everyone will be down for it. And it's, you know, look at all of you guys tuning in every week for it. For this, it's what makes it what it is, that's for sure.

48:22Etienne FontanYou're providing a public service, and the country of Canada should be subsidizing you.

48:27SpeakerThey subsidize both the union and the culture high. Thank you very much.

48:35SpeakerThat's awesome.

48:37BubblemanWell, I am now sitting in the city that I was born in, Winnipeg, Manitoba, in St. Boniface. I can actually see the hospital. That I was born in, right there. Boom, there it is. It's got the cross on it. It's a very French part of Manitoba that I'm in right now. In Winnipeg, sorry. San Bonifaz. Right by the river at the Forks. This is where it all happened for me.

49:02BubblemanThis is where I got turned on to cannabis. This is where I did my hemp activism. This is where I learned how to grow cannabis and learned how to grow mushrooms. Really where I met my mentor, Ron Hickey. You can also check out on Facebook, The Maniac, who, yeah, just really, you'd never know the things that I did in this city that could have been done. Like, it just seems like a kind of a quiet city, but... Tell us one story, Mark.

49:30BubblemanCome on, tell us one story. There's so many. There's so many. You know, when I met Ron, I was maybe 17, and I went to his hydroponic store... And this was in a time, we're in the Bible Belt here. This was in a time, we might as well have been in like Oklahoma. You just did not talk about cannabis openly. There was one other grocery store owned by this guy, Bob, who very well may still own the grocery store here.

49:58BubblemanAnd he would not talk cannabis. He would talk tomatoes and he would kick anyone out that even mentioned cannabis. Ron was the opposite. Ron was a cannabis warrior. When I met Ron, he had already done six and a half years in a federal prison for cannabis. Thank you for watching.

50:32BubblemanBecause they said it was so strong that the smell of it might get the jurors high. So he was sitting there in the chair while they all wore gas masks, and this weed got brought out. And then, of course, Ron being Ron was just like, and it made the courtroom smell so good, Mark. I felt better about the whole situation. It made me laugh. So Ron, when I first went to meet Ron at his grow store, And I was having problems with my plants and someone said, oh, there's a guy that'll help with that.

51:05BubblemanThere was no internet at the time to go look up grow stuff. There was just books. They were expensive. They didn't really, you know, you could read them and they were like, oh, fuck, I don't know about this. And so I went to Ron's as a kid, you can imagine, and basically started talking about tomatoes and he was just like, tomatoes? Like, boom, brought me down to his basement in the hydro store.

51:27BubblemanHe was like, look, you and I both know what we're talking about, so let's just get down to it. And I'm just like, okay, like, I'll take a leap with this guy. Ron, how he learned how to grow, his mentor was this kind of mad scientist guy that worked at the zoo in Winnipeg years ago in the reptile cage. He took care of the alligators and stuff.

51:48BubblemanRon got into some trouble as a kid, and he got an option from the courts to either go to juvie or to be taken into a program, and the program that he was taken into was to go clean alligator shit for this scientist guy. Well, one day Ron's trying to get the alligator back in its cage, and it wrestles with him, and they roll on the floor, and he rolls through a fake wall, and all he sees is bright lights.

52:14BubblemanYeah, the guy was growing at the zoo. He had a full like hidden section growing and so Ron as a kid was given another choice. You can talk about this and tell on me and cause a bunch of problems for me or I can mentor you and teach you about this. And this guy was like a mad scientist like doing all sorts of trippy shit, breeding plants and doing all sorts of wild shit.

52:37BubblemanNothing less than that could be the story for how Ron learned how to grow cannabis. I will try to get him onto Hash Church one day because Nobody can tell a story like Ron. Eleven years in a federal prison for cannabis, and still the most positive, like, outspoken cannabis warrior that you could ever meet across. Badass dude for sure. I see Rick DeLisi's in the room there.

53:08BubblemanWhat's up, brother? Free DeLisi! Go check that out. Google that shit. Go sign that petition. That's another nightmare story of a man who's already served 27 years in prison and has 60 plus more to go under the current laws. And then we could go on forever, couldn't we? Then I'm reminded of this woman who just recently had her son taken away. Was her name Shona? Yeah, my goodness.

53:40BubblemanNow they want to give her 30 years. And they took her son away and put him in Child Protective Services, I think.

53:47HoratioYou know what's crazy? She invented like the first, like she, I knew her from, she was vaporizing and condensing the oil and using it to treat herself. And like that's how I knew her when I was looking up solventless techniques. And like that's where a lot of people in the community know her from Googling techniques to make hash oil naturally.

54:08BubblemanYeah.

54:09HoratioSo, like, she meant a lot to a lot of people in the beginning, and now it's like, what? The lady that told me how to condense on the vape globe is going to major jail? But she's not even really a hash producer.

54:22BubblemanWell, not only just going to, here's the thing. Triple hit. She's going to jail. She's not going to be able to treat her disease, so she's going to get very sick and potentially die. And her son was taken away from her. It seems like a pretty... How much is her bond right now?

54:40SpeakerShe's in jail on... Is she in because she can't get her bond or is she in jail because she hasn't been sentenced yet? Why don't we look into this, man? We could start a GoFundMe or something to get her fucking bond raised or find some people that can raise money if she doesn't have bond money. That's what I'm saying.

54:56BubblemanThat's what I'm saying, Todd.

54:58SpeakerShe doesn't have bond money right now?

55:02BubblemanYep. Thank you for watching.

55:20SpeakerResearch this. And I don't think we should talk about that she got 30 years. Last time I checked.

55:25BubblemanWell, no. No, that they wanted to give her 30 years. She hasn't even gone to court yet, I heard.

55:30SpeakerNo, I know. I remember in Ohio in 1995 when I got busted in July of 95 and they were trying to give me 30 years, me and my girlfriend Natalie, for 30 pounds of weed. It turns out they didn't give me 30 years, you know. They ended up kicking it out and fucking telling me to leave Ohio is what they did.

55:45BubblemanYep, look at Mark Emery. I mean, he was facing way more than 30 years. With the research that Mark did and with the numbers that they wrote on him, his crime could have been processed under the kingpin law. And it's when they said that his seeds were responsible for a million pounds. And they used that number specifically because that number is in this kingpin law. And the kingpin law has a maximum sentence of the death penalty.

56:14BubblemanSo that was weird, just even thinking that that could potentially happen. And then look, Mark got five years. So from the potential death penalty to five years, it's, I mean, it's still terrible. But it's not the death penalty.

56:32SpeakerAs someone who did five fucking years, let me tell you, it is horrible. You yourself. With murderers for half a decade because I grew fucking flowers in a supposed free country. It just startles me. And all these people that run around pretending like, you know, they're free here. I'm just thinking it's the most funny thing ever because it's like, really? Go plant some flowers in your front yard.

56:57SpeakerGo do that. Just go plant some cannabis flowers with the marigolds and the roses and see how long it takes for your freedom to expire.

57:06Etienne FontanPeople did a search and it looks like she's...

57:08BubblemanNo, I hear you, Todd. I mean, honestly, I only really said that based on a quote you said to me when I was talking about Mark Emery. And you said, man, if he's only doing five years, it's not the end of the world. And I was just like, but it's still five years. But then again...

57:23SpeakerAll right, perspective. Listen, he stood on the edge of the border with his thumb up and flipping off the guy doing all he could to piss him off, and I love him for it, and he only got five years for it. And people ask me when I went to prison, was it worth it, Todd? And my answer was always, yeah, it was awfully worth it. A lifetime of freedom.

57:44SpeakerI had to go sit in the corner for a fucking minute, and then I get a lifetime of freedom some more. Yeah, totally worth it. I wouldn't trade it for anything, yeah.

57:52BubblemanYeah, and when Todd says Mark Emery put his thumb up, for those of you that don't know, just one of the things Mark did, say the DEA were having a big event in Vancouver, like 500 bucks a plate, and it was all for like politicians and stuff, Mark would for sure buy a table, a whole table, and then he would invite all people that were wanted by the DEA, and then they would sit in the room, and hardcore cannabis activists like Chris Bennett and David Malmo Levine, And Dana Larsen.

58:21BubblemanAnd they would sit there and literally heckle the drug czar. Heckling the drug czar. And heckling him at this super expensive dinner. Table right up at the front. Steve Tuck actually blew a hit of bubble hash right in that drug czar guy's face while he was surrounded by Secret Service. And I thought, when that happened, I thought, This shit's going to get serious. This shit just got escalated to the next level.

58:55BubblemanThat's crazy. That was when John Walters visited the Cannabis Culture Headquarters with his huge fucking football team of Secret Service men, man. Those guys travel large. They're like with him a block away, two blocks away, four blocks away, six blocks away, ten blocks away. Man.

59:17SpeakerBut I want to throw in a little thought because we've all been in this struggle for a minute and everything. I want to say that I don't think we should make it really personal against people. I don't necessarily think that's a smart idea because if you do anything like that in your hometown and you go heckle your politicians or your local DA and stuff, they aren't connected.

59:38SpeakerThey can make your life through their brother-in-law's sister-in-law's fucking brother who's a cop a lot harder. And you know what? I've always tried to not make it personal. It sounds weird, but You know, it'd be like arguing with the chess pawn. And I'm really there to win the game. I'm really not there to argue with William Bennett or something like that. And I think that it demeans the bigger picture when you make it a personal attack on people that are obviously just pawns in a bigger man's game.

1:00:07BubblemanYes, that's exactly what I'm saying. And that's I agree 100% with that, to be honest. It's the best way. Even Mark himself, when he got out of jail, said that he was going to go about his activism in a way different way, that he wasn't going to go about doing. These were different times, and we were so desperate that it was just different times. It was really like, wow, we've got to get their attention, and man, those guys, they did it.

1:00:31BubblemanThey got their attention. They got world attention. It was like, Go down to CCHQ back in the day, MPC, and it would be like, who's that guy? It's like, oh, that guy, he's from the Wall Street Journal. He's like waiting for the guy from the New York Times to be done interviewing Mark. Oh, really? And who's that guy? Oh, that guy's from Life Magazine, and that guy's from National Geographic.

1:00:53BubblemanIt was always the highest caliber of journalists that were like, holy shit, Mark had their ear, for whatever reason, from day one. Even before he became a cannabis activist, when he was in Toronto and the Garbage Men went on strike, He would like rent trucks and get people and hire people and like basically go pick up garbage and take it to the dumps on his own dollar because he thought it was absurd that the garbage men could just go on strike and like make the city full of garbage and fucking get people sick because there's just garbage rotting in the streets.

1:01:27BubblemanSo he's always stood up and just done crazy shit. You know how mad those garbage men were? Those union garbage men? You know how fucking mad those guys were? That was war, bro. They were like cracking dudes over the head and shit because they wanted to go on strike to get a better pay. Mark, being the activist that he is, is like, I don't give a fuck about your pay.

1:01:46BubblemanAll this garbage needs to be picked up.

1:01:50Etienne FontanSo hey, I asked very kindly, I asked in chat for people to do a search for Shona to see if she's out and She is officially out on bail. So thank you everybody for doing the searches. Much appreciation. Shona, much love and peace if you're out there and watching this. Much respect.

1:02:08BubblemanAbsolutely. Thanks for that update. Marcus Aran, lucky in Northern Cali. Oh, he's talking about cerebral palsy. Well, cannabis is very good for cerebral palsy. It seems to be a wonder for any type of tremors or shaking.

1:02:28BubblemanOne of the first most magical actual medical cannabis moments that I ever saw in my life that brought tears to my eyes was when Hillary Black was doing the Compassion Club back in the day, maybe a couple years in, and a young kid by the name of Crash, that's what we called him, his name was Craig, but we called him Crash, or Greg, sorry, Greg. I always called him Crash, and he had advanced multiple sclerosis, like the most terrible case you could ever imagine.

1:02:58BubblemanHe shook so badly. Glass pipes were never an option. He would absolutely chip his teeth or break the glass. And he was actually on the David Suzuki The Nature of Things documentary, and he came to my court case. He wanted to testify for me first before his use of cannabis and second after, but It was one of the most powerful in-your-face moments of watching someone shake so badly He also couldn't speak.

1:03:23BubblemanHe would stutter so terribly that he really was unable to get even like three words out. He would get stuck on a word and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da while he was shaking and really kind of shaking like this almost all the time. He would smoke. He would require very powerful medicine. This was before extracts were really a big thing. Bubble hash was really just kind of on the cusp. So he would, you know, roll up hash joints with oil and everything, and then his caregiver would hold it in his mouth so he could get a few puffs in.

1:03:56BubblemanAnd it was quite amazing to see, after just two or three puffs, the immediate 95% removal of these tremors and the almost 100% removal of the stutter. He was just suddenly able to speak perfectly, and he was, the tremors were immediately... Cut down by 95%, and that is, to me, to this day, one of the most powerful things I've seen happen in front of me for the medicinal benefits of cannabis.

1:04:31BubblemanIt would really be hard for anyone to deny that.

1:04:35Etienne FontanWell, I mean, if that doesn't prove a quality of life that cannabis can bring to someone, I don't know what else will. You know what I'm saying? Because that proof is right there. You watch them take a hit, and within seconds, watch their spasticity Thank you so much for joining us.

1:05:18BubblemanIf cannabis could help alleviate the suffering of just one child at just one point in time, then it should be allowed. And I thought that was a very powerful quote, that it's very true. Sorry about that, Ninja. Ninja just mentioned that he lost his mother to MS, so that's always a bummer. Hopefully her life, her quality of life was increased by the use of cannabis. Definitely, I feel that my life is increased by the use of cannabis.

1:05:48BubblemanNot only for aches and pains, but just for my all around, the way I access concepts and ideas seems to be very, very linked to this companion plant that I have in my life. And I get that idea with all of you guys that are extremely passionate about this, you know, moving forward at this accelerated rate, almost as though we're being pushed. In all these different directions, it's like we're a cannabis von Neumann machine.

1:06:19BubblemanFor those of you unfamiliar with the von Neumann machine, it was a theoretical machine that would be created to discover the entire universe. A machine that would go out and replicate itself four times and then go out in every other direction and continue replicating itself until it had discovered all there was to discover. We are the cannabis von Neumann machine. I like it. I'll have a A rip on that.

1:06:44BubblemanOh, someone blocking chat. All right, all right. Here we go. It's hard to keep an eye on all of this.

1:06:53Etienne FontanYep, get the ban hammer out.

1:06:56BubblemanWell, you know what? Nowadays I just find it to be a little bit different. I would literally unban anyone that just apologized and said, oh, sorry, I was having a bad day. But I find in the social media aspect of today that there's a group of people that look to, they look for traction, so they look for things that are popular and that have people looking at it, and then they try to include themselves in a way that is through trolling or some negativity.

1:07:23BubblemanI'm all for dialogue all day long, but not so much just like outwardly hardcore negativity. Try to keep it positive, people. We've got 606 people watching Hash Church right now, and everyone's wondering, when are those guys going to smoke some hash?

1:07:40Archive SeedsRight now.

1:07:41HoratioDoes anybody else ever get those days where, like, in the first hour of Hash Church, you're puffing, you're puffing, and all of a sudden you're like, oh my god, I'm way too fucking high to be keeping this up for the next three hours. Like, I'm both downers and uppers, and... I don't know how I feel. My body is so heavy and my mind is going so fast and I'm just wiped out from the experience.

1:08:10HoratioAnd you're like, dabs are up. And I'm like, which should I choose? More downers or more uppers? THC or THC?

1:08:20BarryYou're just spoilt for choice.

1:08:22BubblemanSo you were mentioning, Horatio, was it CBN that you're rocking?

1:08:28HoratioYeah, that's what I'm working on because everyone can get 10, like a very small percent can make, there's so many things that can make oil black and then everyone would love to jump out and say, oh, I got the pure CBN and I'm like, you don't, it's going to have a certain nature that's going to be consistent as the purity gets up because 10% CBN won't do it for me.

1:08:48HoratioIt'll do it for a ton of people but it won't help me and people like me so perfecting an art of whatever that contaminant that makes black stuff Basically a way to know and then we can move into testing. So I keep ingesting it then attempting to dab it. But that's why I wondered because I heard things that are heated up, heated up, they change, they change, and they turn into plastic.

1:09:11HoratioAnd I'm like, well, should it be clear and red? Should it be black? Is the stuff that's red just a discoloration of a percentage of black being added to it? Like it's hard to trust everyone saying they know. Red is not a way of turning black.

1:09:26SpeakerRed is on the way, red's on the road to turning black. Usually it'll turn yellow and then it'll start to turn, the darker it turns, basically this is thermal oxidative degradation of the thermally sensitive components in the oil. And so what you're seeing is basically color bodies that are forming from degradation reactions that happen when you heat up organic compounds in air. It's perfectly reasonable to think that, again, it's not really the CBN that's black in color, it's all the other degradation products that come along for the ride.

1:10:02SpeakerAnd remember that a little bit of a highly colored dark material can cast its shadow over a large volume of material. So materials that have high extinction coefficient chromophores are basically going to be very, very dark and Like food coloring, one drop can go a long way. It doesn't have to be there in a very large concentration to color an entire mass of material dark. I don't think CBN should be colored at all.

1:10:33SpeakerCBN theoretically should be completely colorless or slightly yellow if best. Again, I'll go back to what I was saying before. Horatio, I think all you need to do is if you could heat up your THC solution and bubble air through it, I think what you'll see is you'll see eventually a conversion of the THC. So if the THC is oxidizing to CBN, something has to be reduced.

1:11:00SpeakerIn the case with sulfur, sulfur is just easier to reduce. But again, you don't want sulfur in there, but air will do the same thing. Oxygen and air will essentially be the reductant because if something's oxidizing, something else must be being reduced. And in that case, I think if you just bubble air through a highly concentrated solution of THC at temperature, I think you'll see a lot of that starting to convert to CBN.

1:11:25BubblemanGo ahead, Bubble Man. Well, I was only going to suggest also that you use the oldest material that you can find.

1:11:32SpeakerYeah, exactly, yes. Yes, because the older the material is, the more likely that it's already started its degradation path to CBN through those intermediates that El Soli has now identified, which are the hydroxylated derivatives Along the top part of the methylcyclohexene portion of the ring. So when those hydroxylate, it's a dehydration now, which is just heat away from making two double bonds, and that last double bond is like going downhill.

1:12:08SpeakerThat'll happen on the rotavap ratio. So if you can get that first elimination to happen to make the diene going to the fully aromatic species is thermodynamically downhill.

1:12:20HoratioWell, in this case, I mean, I'll go ahead and say it. It's coming out as if I'm looking for, like you could say, I'm pulling my THC fraction and that makes my activated LHO. And I have the option to either start degrading that for a different product or looking for Fractions that are already CBN because they come off at a different ratio. The thing about it is, let's say I can see the decorative curve.

1:12:46HoratioI can see literally as the, you could say the bright yellow becomes deeper and then it goes into reds because these are only things that distill off. As I can see my working flask getting blacker and blacker and blacker. Now, there are subtleties. Like, let's say you take that flask of black stuff and you rinse it out with alcohol and One type red stuff comes out and the black stuff remains, but then if I rinse it out with non-polar like limonene, there's another black fraction that comes out.

1:13:15HoratioSo even in looking at that receiving flask, I've split off polar versus non-polar. That's why I'm like everyone can produce something that's 10%. All material is all in between. I've seen people test reclaim and only get 8% CBN, so that doesn't cut it. It means it was 80% crap.

1:13:36SpeakerRight. If it's a lighter colored solution, there's actually a quick and easy test that you can see if it's actually been fully aromatized and there's not an available double bond, and that is you can see if it decolorizes either a solution of bromine or iodine, the iodine that you can buy at the drugstore that you would use on a cut or something like that. If it decolorizes iodine, that means there's an active double bond that the iodine molecule can add to.

1:14:08SpeakerAnd so that was just a color metric indication to determine whether or not you've fully gone to CBN.

1:14:18HoratioOkay, so I would take like a spot of iodine and then put a dot of oil halfway in between it and see if it pulls.

1:14:25SpeakerYeah, if you see the color go away, you're not fully there. But if the color remains in the iodine, that means that it's completely aromatic and the iodine can't add to the double bonds of the benzene ring once it becomes aromatic.

1:14:41HoratioOkay, I'll try doing a picture of that, like with the iodine with like regular TH3 acid and

1:14:51SpeakerYou don't even need to use iodine. You could use starch paper. There's something called starch paper which is impregnated with an iodometric indicator. And I think if you touch the starch paper with it, I think if it turns dark, it's good. But if it stays clear, it's the same. I don't know. I could look that up. But starch paper is just basically a paper that's impregnated with an iodometric indicator that you would use in a very similar way.

1:15:18HoratioNo, this is new shit on Hash Church, the home test kit.

1:15:23BubblemanI like it.

1:15:25SpeakerAbout time I did something.

1:15:30BubblemanAbout time. I like it. I like the dialogue. It's good to see people are digging it too in the chat room. They're all asking for Skunk Man Sam. They want Skunk Man Sam to come chat. Analytical Mike's actually in the room right now, Horatio. I was just saying hi to him and asked him if he wanted to come chat, and he said he's waiting for Skunk Man Sam.

1:15:49BubblemanAll right. That would be special. Hey, Darren.

1:15:57SpeakerI didn't even see you. And Cuban.

1:15:59BubblemanNice. What's going on, guys? And Lauren's in the house, too.

1:16:05SpeakerWhat's up, brother? Can you guys hear me? Yes. Word. Yeah, I'm on the cell phone, man, so it's a little ghetto. And you know what? I just noticed my cell phone has a crack on it, man. That's fucked up.

1:16:17BubblemanThat's fucked up.

1:16:21SpeakerYeah, I just woke up. I'm getting ready for my second day at Chalice. Hey, Cuban.

1:16:27Etienne FontanWe got to hook up, man. Where are you going to be? We got to meet for sure.

1:16:31SpeakerYeah, I don't have a booth, so I'm just kind of roaming around. I thought you were going to meet us. Listen, listen, listen. It's right behind the Hitman booth in the Glassblowers Gallery. There are some couches, and it's pretty comfortable, and there's a tent. So just go to where the main stage is and like go around the back of the Hitman booth and I'm sure we'll be back there.

1:16:55SpeakerWord. I saw Rob Clark, man, but I was like on a churro and water mission. So I kind of made him wait a little bit, bro, because everybody kept stopping me on the way to everywhere I went. So like to walk 50 feet to the churro, I got stopped like four times for dry sieved. And I felt bad. When I bought my water and churro, I went to go look for Rob and he had left.

1:17:16SpeakerSo I got a link up with him today.

1:17:19BubblemanHe's in the house right there. Boom. Hey, Rob. Hey.

1:17:23SpeakerJust like that. Hey. Sorry, man. When I bought my churros and water, I saw you had left, but I probably left you waiting a long time. That's all right, man. I stood there for a while. I guess you just disappeared behind the churro trailer there, but yeah. Yeah. I got stopped by so many people. I was like, hey, man, I'm holding up Rob Clark right now. All right.

1:17:43SpeakerI got to go look for him. I get kidnapped constantly. Everybody walks up to us. Hey, man, I see you on Hash Church. It's so cool. Yeah. Yeah, man, sure, okay. Rob is finally famous in the movement. Well, I'd love to sit down and talk hash with you, man, and smoke some dry sift. I still got a pretty good amount left.

1:18:06BubblemanSounds like you've been smoking a lot, though, Cuban.

1:18:10SpeakerBro, I went to Chalice last minute, right? So Friday I didn't sleep and I came on like a fucking 5 in the morning flight Saturday. So all day at Chalice I'm just dabbing and feeling like a zombie. So yeah, I slept good. I'm feeling pretty good now. Check this out, guys. I don't know if you guys have a good view of it. But I've been making fresh frozen whole plant runs and vaccing the hash for a little while and then I rosin that hash.

1:18:39SpeakerI whip it and I stick it in the oven at like 120 full vac for 2-3 hours. And it waxes it out. It's pretty cool. I have another one here. It's just kind of crumbly. It wants to keep falling apart. Hold on. I love it. I'm going to sit here and smile a little bit. I know, right? Yeah. I brought some water hash. Dude, it was so hot.

1:19:05SpeakerIt was like 100 degrees it felt like to me. My jar was warm from being outside, and I felt so bad for my water hash, man. It looks like this.

1:19:14BubblemanSmoke it with Rob today and blow the smoke towards the Vatican and it will all be okay.

1:19:22SpeakerSmoke signals to the Vatican all day on Sunday. You should start with Hash Church, but if you live earlier in the time zones, you should get up and do your own Hash Church first thing in the morning. It's good, healthy exercise.

1:19:37BubblemanHell yeah. I do it. I'm on it.

1:19:40SpeakerIt's been natural. I used to put a bong next to his bed. And he'd wake up early on Sunday mornings and he'd do a big bong hit and then he'd go back to bed and have beautiful dreams. That's how my wife is, man. She wakes up and like the first thing she does is take a dab. But me, I'm a little different. I need a nice cup of coffee.

1:20:00SpeakerLike a really strong coffee. If I don't have my coffee, I ain't smoking. Yeah, we went first to Starbucks when we left here to go to Dallas yesterday for gettys. Try that Cuban coffee. Oh, yeah. That's all I drink is Cuban coffee, man. You know, it's good. I wish I could have you guys come over and visit me in Washington, man. I'll make you guys coffee and spark you all up.

1:20:26SpeakerIt's raining in Washington. Visit us in California. Hey, I'm here. Oh, yeah. Good point. Good point. Yeah, yeah. Hey, I'm here. And I got my dry sift with me.

1:20:44SpeakerOh, snap. We'll have a party today. Just a minute. I've got to eat a bowl of cereal before we go to this thing or I'll fall down. I'll be back. See you later. I was going to be there today, Cuban, everybody else. See you later. Yep. I'll see you for sure, man. All right, man. Hey, guys. I'm going to get off of here because I'm going to get ready to eat breakfast and go to Chalice.

1:21:07SpeakerIt was nice seeing you. I know my wife is watching. She sent me a message, so. Love you, baby, if you're watching. Love you guys. Bye. See you later. Miss Cuban. Here's a question I want to throw out there. I wanted to ask Cuban, but I'm sure I can get the answer as well from here. When anybody's doing their dry sifting and they've got an air conditioner on, they bring it into a certain temperature, What's the humidity they like to have it at as well?

1:21:40SpeakerThe humidity and temperature ratio of a perfect room to be dry sifting in. Does anybody have that?

1:21:50HoratioWell, I mean, zero is a nice number.

1:21:53BubblemanYeah, it's possible. If you can get zero humidity, you're laughing. Humidity is the enemy, so the lowest humidity and then temperature too. I love cool temperatures.

1:22:03SpeakerI mean, shit. How low can we get it down here on the coast on a humidity level? Like, what's the lowest you can get it, do you think? Can you get it to zero?

1:22:13BubblemanWell, I mean, anything's possible. If you built a sealed room and you, you know, controlled the environment, it just becomes how ridiculous is it. I'm sure if you get it down to like 20, you'll be in an okay situation.

1:22:26SpeakerAir conditioner, dehumidifier in a small room.

1:22:30HoratioWell, Mark, you were in my lab. Even when you just showed up, it was just like average coal for working. But, I mean, I try to bring it down to about 52 Fahrenheit before I start. And I'm not trying to insulate the room, so it's hella inefficient. But even just like closed door, like basic box, that's a reasonable workspace to get going. And it only gets better if you actually build a room for it.

1:22:56SpeakerYeah.

1:22:57BubblemanCool. Thanks. That is for sure. It's always nice to control your environment 100%. And yeah, 0% humidity.

1:23:05SpeakerControl the environment where you're growing and you're making hash, but as soon as you bring it out in the world, the world is not a controlled environment.

1:23:16BubblemanWhich totally reminds me of a conversation we had last week that Skunk Man Sam was definitely like, he wanted to have his two cents in and I forgot about this. It was in regards to the difference between the HPLC and the GC and the heating of the cannabinoids and the terpenes. And what he said was that, why are you guys so worried about that machine testing cannabinoids that are being heated or terpenes that are being heated when you yourselves only ever use them with heat?

1:23:50BubblemanMeaning what we actually get is a chemically altered profile from the heat that we've Produced over this material, whether we're vaping or burning or whatever. So we ourselves aren't getting the true profile as much as we're getting the chemically altered profile after heat. I guess the activated profile.

1:24:12HoratioThat was the benefit of trying to taste it when we tried tasting the terps was to see, hey, is this anything like what I know from my senses when I smoke it or is it completely different? Do we not know the plant yet until we completely ingest even the terps?

1:24:28SpeakerThe point of gas chromatography is you are measuring the volatile profile off of what's being heated up. How it's being heated up and the rate at which it's being heated up and the concentration of the analytes are all going to be impacting what comes off in terms of what you're measuring in the GC. I guess the point is that if you're looking at sort of a non-thermal delivery of cannabinoids through either sublingual or oral delivery or transdermal delivery, you're not necessarily heating up the cannabinoids unless you're decarboxylating prior to making the formulation.

1:25:20SpeakerSo I guess the point of knowing the actual makeup before it's heated up is to understand what the heat process does to the chemical makeup of the hash or the extract, right?

1:25:42HoratioWell, yeah, if you didn't know the difference, then you would only believe in the terpenes that you smoke, and you'd never consider the terpenes that you smell. Smelling them or eating them might do even more for our high than just stabbing, so you bet. I mean, topically, that aromatherapy could do marvelous things, but if you didn't know those terpenes were there because you only knew their heated-up version, you would just say, oh, it's just D-limonene.

1:26:06HoratioNobody's going to want that basic profile.

1:26:09SpeakerYeah, so again, this is what everyone has been asking about, which is that the actual what's being burnt, you know, D-limonene and most of the terpenes fall into what are called Class A1 or Class 1A flammables as classified by OSHA. Class 1A have a certain flammability below their boiling point or flash point You can look it up on Google and just look for ocean classification of liquids.

1:26:44SpeakerBut anyway, so most of those are flammable, meaning that if they do get a chance to burn, they will. But it's like when you're burning that top part of your bowl or your bong hit, it's the neighboring weed, if you will, that's being superheated enough before combustion or flammability occurs that that's vaporized and part of the Thank you for joining us today.

1:27:36SpeakerThe profile both before and after heating so you can understand what the heating process does because not all heating happens in the same way. The injection port of most of these GC methods that analyze hash for residual solvent is either 200 or 250 degrees centigrade so you can convert that to Fahrenheit. It's a pretty high number. So right away you're thermally shocking the material To excited to put it into the vapor phase and as it alludes off the column as it's going through the chromatographic process that's where you actually identify all of the components but that's after it's been heated in maybe what's not a very clean injector port because these companies sample hundreds if not thousands of samples through these machines without ever probably cleaning all the residue and crap Thank you for joining us.

1:28:58HoratioWell I guess I mean for regular people you could take like a vaporizer cold and put your favorite weed in it and just even just pulling on it you start to get terpenes in your mouth and if you heat it up and then let it you know build and vape all the way up to a temperature that starts the cannabinoids that would be the closest thing the average person could get to an experience I mean it's It's losing all the weight, but you get a sense of even pulling on terpenes that are just heated enough by the environment, so you taste that cold.

1:29:31HoratioThen you can taste slowly and slowly, and you realize, wow, if I just roasted that all at once in a flash experience, it would be way different. So literally, what you described, it sounds like the injection port is dabbing at those temperatures. It's a flash event.

1:29:50SpeakerYeah, probably at a much lower temperature, right? I mean, what's the temperature that people keep their nails at? Is it a typical nail temperature?

1:30:00BubblemanMine's at 580 Fahrenheit right now.

1:30:04SpeakerOkay, so what is that? So 580 Fahrenheit. Let me get out my converter here.

1:30:11Horatio304 Celsius. Pretty low in roast, you know, boiling. That's even lower than me. How'd you go so low? You know what?

1:30:20BubblemanHonestly, I just was playing around the other day. It seems like it's so much warmer here. It's really warm, and it's almost tropical. It was 40 degrees Celsius here the other day with the humidity index. So we're in warm temperatures. And what I found was that my nail just seemed too hot. My hit seemed too hot at 700, 750, where I usually hit. I went down to 650.

1:30:47BubblemanStill felt much the same way, and then when I went down just below 600, it was just hitting more like what I prefer. It's not really what I'd call a super low temp dab, it's still hitting very nice.

1:31:01SpeakerYeah, so just to go back to the humidity thing for a second, I think there was a discussion on one of the Facebook comments around hygroscopic versus hydrophilic. So yeah, there's... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:31:42SpeakerSome of the structures that are formed in these oil type emulsions actually rely on water. You know, that whole discussion around buttering. I think the buttering phenomena has a lot to do with both exposure to atmospheric moisture and just any other air. So you can make hash in a controlled environment, but as soon as you bring it out in a moist environment, it's just going to readily absorb Um, water.

1:32:13SpeakerUm, I don't think you can keep it from happening. I wonder if these little, uh, silica packets or sachets that you find, say, like in, in a new pair of shoes, you know, the control, uh, moisture from degrading shoes can be used in a way to control moisture, say, like in a humidor sense to have it just equilibrate at a certain level because you can't keep it away.

1:32:38SpeakerWe live in a moist world. There's no way you can Thank you, Mark.

1:33:10SpeakerThanks for inviting me on. It's always great to be on. I'm always thrilled to have such an attentive audience who's hungry for all this chemistry knowledge.

1:33:19BubblemanAbsolutely. Thanks for coming in.

1:33:23SpeakerYeah, and just for my two cents, too, that dead reunion last week in Chicago was just a wonderful, wonderful time. It was a clusterfuck on a few different levels because really getting in and out of that stadium was nuts, but... It was a great, great time. The music was awesome. And check it out. There's all kinds of pictures and links on YouTube. And it ended up breaking all kinds of records.

1:33:51SpeakerAnd I can tell you there was a lot of good hash being smoked there. And I got called out by three different people who came up to me and said, dude from Hash Church. And one guy wasn't even there at the show. He just happened to be in Chicago for the weekend. A guy who was there with his family. He was walking out of the Subway restaurant with a couple subs, dinner for his family waiting at the hotel.

1:34:15SpeakerAnd he goes, do I know you? I know you from somewhere. And I was like, no, I don't think so. He goes, you're the guy from Hash Church. And we started talking. Really super sweet, super nice guy. So yeah, Mark, we get a lot of PR out there. And always grateful to be called out for participating in church.

1:34:35BubblemanThat's awesome, dude. And I loved the Let Trey Sing t-shirt.

1:34:40SpeakerYeah. He did so well. We're so proud of our boy, Mark. He totally killed it. Fish heads everywhere should be proud of what Trey did. He filled Jerry's shoes, and I think it's okay for them to call the Grateful Dead now done that he's done this. He rose to the level. And come on out on Fish Tour. Fish is going to rage it this summer tour. You'll smell lots of good hash being smoked at a fish show, so come on out, hash church people.

1:35:10SpeakerAll right, take care, folks.

1:35:13BubblemanHave a good one. Peace. Nice. Very nice. Well, I get to take my family to a movie later today with my sister and my niece that I never get to see. It's very nice to come back and see family. You move away. Hey, and you forget sometimes how much you enjoy hanging out with your family, so it's been pretty good back in the peg here for a little bit.

1:35:41BubblemanI think I got a friend coming over. It's also Folk Festival in Winnipeg this weekend, which is a very big festival in Winnipeg. It's one of the bigger ones across Canada, hundreds of bands, all sorts of different people, and End up there. It's really quite a cool event. I'm sort of sorry that I'm not going to be making it, but Hash Church wouldn't have been possible if I went to the Folk Fest today, so I thought we'd better pass on the Folk Fest and say yay to some Hash Church.

1:36:15BubblemanEveryone looks like a picture right now to me. Casey and Lauren and Horatio. Oh yeah, there, you're moving. She's moving.

1:36:22BarryDarren's moving. Weird, because when I got... That proved that I'm moving with that. That's the best evidence.

1:36:32BubblemanYeah, it looked like everyone was frozen up for me. The camera, my internet's probably not that good. I'm doing too much internetting as I often do.

1:36:45BubblemanI went to my uncle's cabin for just a few days, and my family, we used his internet so much, it was like, there was like a fee came up on the message. You can't use your internet anymore until you pay $50. That's what you get.

1:36:58HoratioThat's what you get in the future. Well, I mean, you didn't realize you were on dial-up, so that was probably the issue that ran up the fees so quickly.

1:37:11BubblemanOh yeah, totally. I don't even know what kind of dial-up it was. It was definitely some random weird lake internet with a booster. Satellite.

1:37:22BubblemanWelcome, Tony.

1:37:23SpeakerWhat's going on, buddy?

1:37:26BubblemanOh, we just said goodbye to Mark Scaldone and we said goodbye to Rob Clark and Kay from Tricom Technologies and Etienne and Todd. I guess they're all in California for the Chalice Festival.

1:37:39SpeakerYeah, I wish I could have been there.

1:37:41BubblemanYeah, me too, dude.

1:37:43SpeakerLooks like everyone's having a good time there.

1:37:49BubblemanLooks like a game changer. What, Chalice? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it looks like the kind of thing that if High Times doesn't rock the High Times Cannabis Cup in Jamaica this year like so fucking hard, Chalice maybe will.

1:38:08SpeakerI think Chalice is, I think Dougie put a lot of energy and a lot of time into it. Even his judges packages were really cool.

1:38:16BubblemanThey were the greatest judges packages I've ever seen in my life. Are you kidding me?

1:38:20SpeakerYeah.

1:38:21HoratioThis shit was fashion. I looked at it and I'm like, ooh, what the? This is like I went shopping on the main avenue and the bags are all keepers. Like, oh, I've got to keep this bag I bought it in and store it. It's art. As the pictures rolled in, I'm like, Jesus Christ. I got into an argument with my wife and at some point I'm like, you don't even understand.

1:38:43HoratioI'm not a chalice right now. Do you understand what I could be going through? Exactly. It looks real, real, real.

1:38:53BubblemanYeah, it reminds me of like a hoodlum box that the jackets come in but you open it and it's all foam and he's got the torch and he's got dabbers and he's got a glass pipe and there's little containers and it's pretty pimped out. I was impressed.

1:39:10BarryThere are a few things that have made me wish I could go to America more than this.

1:39:17BubblemanYeah, it's been happening to me for years, dude, for years. It used to be big fish shows. It was like, are you going to go to, you know, they had all these different festivals that they did with different names, and it was like Oswego or what the hell are some of these old 90s fish? The Great Wendt, I think, was one. It, maybe. Marbleslinger used to go to all of them.

1:39:44BubblemanI used to miss all of them and be crushed. Thank you for watching.

1:40:17BubblemanOh, shit. So now you need a mothership for Colorado?

1:40:24SpeakerYou could have left it in my house, Tony.

1:40:26Etienne FontanDamn it.

1:40:28SpeakerLook at you guys. Anytime. Bong Storage is always available for you, bro. Dave Secure Rig Storage. Yes, I saw a sign that said that yesterday. But anyone who wants to see the photos, I took high resolution layered photos of all 62 ballast entries of cannabis because that's what I judged. Yeah, flowers. I didn't judge the non-solvent water hash and I didn't judge the solvent hash. I just, well, I smoked some of them though, but...

1:41:02SpeakerAnyone can go to my HempXXX Instagram and see the photos. A lot of really amazing pot, a lot of ant pot. Out of 62 varieties, it's hard to have 62 amazing buds, but there was a lot of good stuff there. Really good, how should I put it, a good range of what is on the California scene right now for sure. Yeah, speaking of really good pot, you had some that pressed out last time I saw you.

1:41:32SpeakerI think it was the highest yield we've ever had on a rosin press. You know, I'm using those little Boveda packs, which keep my cannabis at like 62% humidity, and it's perfect for joints. It keeps it a touch moister than I like. I mean, I wish it was at 58 or 60, but it really, the longevity, the terpene preservation is amazing. I really recommend these things to more.

1:42:02SpeakerI've only been using them really, we should say religiously, for the past six or seven months, and I think it's really improved the quality, overall quality of the cannabis. The joints, when I light them, they go around five or six times. Thank you. The joints go around over and over and over because, you know, dry cannabis really sucks, you know, and a lot of us run into stuff that isn't cured well.

1:42:24SpeakerThe terpenes evaporate off. It's really people ruin cannabis after they harvest. They spend all this time doing a great job growing pot and then at the end, they fuck it off. They dry it too quickly. They don't preserve the terpenes. They don't cure it. And, you know, I think what you're just experiencing, Tony, is You know, someone that's a stickler for well-preserved or well-cured cannabis, really. Because I thought that you were smoking cut down for Spanibus, which was March.

1:42:57SpeakerYeah, so I had been curing since March. That's crazy. Yeah, you definitely noticed the moisture content made the rosin a lot oilier, and we actually had the wrong parchment the first time, so we could see what that did. And then I think that there's something to that, finding the right moisture, especially when you're doing flower rosin. It depends on what you're doing. If you're doing it for, now we're doing large volume for food grade, what we're calling food grade, but it's like oil that goes right into capsules or sublinguals versus the rosin that you would be smoking.

1:43:36SpeakerAnd I think that there's a nice harmony there when you get the right moisture in there. So I'm going to start, we've been starting to play around with trying to preserve the right moisture when you're doing specifically oil that way. Because I like what I saw and obviously the flower that you grew was superb too. So I mean that helped. What was it, green crack? What was the other one we did?

1:44:04SpeakerYou remember?

1:44:06BubblemanYou talking to Todd?

1:44:07SpeakerYeah.

1:44:08BarryIt's Green Crack and then what was it? Trainwreck. Trainwreck Cross. Trainwreck Cross and then... Yeah, that Trainwreck was good.

1:44:15SpeakerDo you still have any of that left? I'll always have it. No, I mean some of the rosary you smoke all through. Oh, no. We smoked the shit out of that. That didn't last. Come back. So did you guys talk about the tribal thing? Because I know that's a hot topic.

1:44:39BubblemanWe did not talk about the tribal thing. You want to mention it or what?

1:44:43SpeakerYeah, there was a big raid in California on tribal land. And a lot of people were hitting me up and freaking out. They thought that like somehow we went down or I don't know what the deal was. But I was in my own world and people were like, are you okay? Are you okay? I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm doing great. I'm pressing out 200 gram rosin patties at a time.

1:45:06SpeakerI was like, what's up? And then, you know, that article came out. And really what happened was you have to really read, when you see an article that comes out, you have to really read specifics in what they're actually saying. And in this particular case, the feds rated a tribal grow that was 675,000 square foot of greenhouse.

1:45:36SpeakerThey had 15,000 plants. They had 100 pounds of extracts sitting there. And they're funded by a tobacco company out of Canada by an individual that I don't want to use names because I don't want to get into slander or anything like that. But that particular individual that owns a tobacco company that was funding this also has a drug record, a past. And I think when you put international money, tribal land, some past history, and then you look at did they have ordinances, did they try to comply and integrate with the state, meaning where does their product go?

1:46:22SpeakerAnd in that article, they specifically said that the feds were interested in the finance and the money trail, and their main question was, with all of this cannabis, where are you selling it? Right? So if you're on your own land and you're growing the world's biggest grow, because that was the biggest grow they've busted, where are you selling it to? So once you start getting into that area and you're not organized, then I think you leave yourself open to international concerns and you leave yourself open to investigations that...

1:47:04SpeakerCould lead to other things. Right now they didn't arrest anyone, which is really important, and they didn't take anything except plants and the product. So they didn't confiscate the land, they didn't confiscate the property, they didn't arrest anyone. So they're doing an investigation trying to figure out that money trail and how that mechanism works. And so what's significantly, in my opinion, significantly different, and I could be wrong, but I'm just acting as a consultant for the tribes that we're working with in California.

1:47:44SpeakerAnd so specifically with Ukiah, that tribe adapted an ordinance, and those ordinances... They're pretty strict and they are all over us from the second you're on their land. So those ordinances adapted a lot of Colorado's Ordinances, so we have a seed to sale system, there's a tracking system, there's a non-profit collective that's been established that all patients become members, growers are members, exactly like the same type of collective situation that you have in California with the seed to sale tracking systems and regulations and Good business practices that you would have that was developed from Colorado.

1:48:34SpeakerSo it's a hybrid blend of ordinances. You have to get badged. You have to have background checks. The only thing different, and this was kind of a little bit of our influence in those ordinances, the only thing different in Colorado, if you have a drug felony for cannabis, you can't get a job. And so we lifted that section and said, If the only drug felony that you have is cannabis, and that's the only one you have, you can still get a job in those ordinances.

1:49:10SpeakerSo that means if you're busted with cocaine, arms, robbery, rape, or any kind of other serious felony, obviously you're going to get screened out just like you would in any other system, and you're not going to get a job. But if you were only caught You know, with cannabis or hash or cultivating or trafficking cannabis, then it's not going to limit you from getting a job because, let's face it, we've all been in this cannabis industry a while and some of you guys out there have gotten caught and some of you have not.

1:49:46SpeakerAnd so some of you that have gotten caught that are not able to play in the game, it's a shame because you have probably more skills than anyone else that is in the game. And so we want to limit that. And so There's a collective that's on a tribal ground with ordinances, with full-time security, cameras, full-time personnel monitoring the entire place. Everybody monitors everyone that works there.

1:50:12SpeakerEveryone works with contracts and background checks for that collective, the collective set up like members, and we bring in products that we grow our own or we work with farmers to process that into products that then sell again to other collectives. So all product goes to patients. All products go through collectives. And I think that's the huge significant difference between what we saw the raids going. I don't have all the details, but I would suspect when the feds get involved like that, it's something a little bit bigger than we just don't want you growing cannabis.

1:50:53BubblemanYeah, it was apparently a disagreement between Between a brother and sister who both claim kind of control over the tribes or whatever. The sister apparently called it in and was like, man, my brother's doing this and he shouldn't be doing it.

1:51:08SpeakerYeah, and that was the other thing. That's what I also heard right before I left as well, that it was a family feud and there was back and forth and he said he was going to do it anyway. And there's a right way and a wrong way to help people You know, and I'm not sure all of the details there, but I know that our, the spirit of our, our business model and the spirit of the tribe that we're working with is medical, helping patients.

1:51:38SpeakerYou know, they want to start addressing things like PTSD, you know, methadone clinics, opiate addiction, like they really want to start in that kind of category. So, and that makes more sense when you When you look at a unity among these different types of organizations, you can't come in and just blow up 600,000 square foot of greenhouse and then just do what you want. That's not going to fly.

1:52:10SpeakerIt was huge.

1:52:15HoratioDoes it seem like when there's a crime, it's because feds can only come when a native Indian brings them in? Like with most police things, that's why it's the federal government. Like when a native dispute happens, even the murder, they're asked to come in to participate in it. So it sounds like it wouldn't really have happened even with all of the other shady aspects if the sister didn't initiate the invite even.

1:52:46Etienne FontanDid you see how many greenhouses there were? There was 40 greenhouses. That was impressive.

1:52:51SpeakerI think there was more than 40. I was counting the ones that were under construction and the ones that I saw from the aerial, and it was extremely impressive. It was like the most monstrous greenhouse production shit like ever. And I don't even know if it was shady. They might have had ordinances and selling into collectives, but I had never heard of them before. Doing that, and I think if they were working with collectives, I think that would have come out in that article.

1:53:21Etienne FontanWell, they inherited a whole bunch of nice greenhouses. Yeah.

1:53:28HoratioYeah, it just seems like it actually was, I mean, it may not be agreeable, but you don't get to that scale... Just like overnight and even if it's like where's it all going I'm like whatever it is it's organized as fuck because you give me that problem it's like hey buddy I've got a hundred pounds of extracts I'm like I don't have a freezer to keep this it's all going to butter it's all done for like we need these people these are the consultants of the year it seems like they have the best of the best of the best so it takes a lot of participation to get that going

1:54:02BubblemanWell, keep in mind the Canadian investor, was he not a billionaire or did he just represent a multi-billion dollar company in Canada?

1:54:12SpeakerIt's definitely a multi-billion dollar company. It's a tobacco company.

1:54:17BubblemanYeah, so he probably peeled off 25 mil or whatever, 40 mil and just was like, I'll just do a little project and I can just show that as a loss. 12 million. Stocks went down three seconds. 12 million they invested? Yeah.

1:54:32HoratioNothing for tobacco guy. I was going to say, I'm like, oh shit, so all the weed is grown big tobacco style. That's probably how they kept it so organized. So it totally does go to poison people in the black market in droves.

1:54:49SpeakerYeah, I was... That's why I said the spirit. You have to look at the spirit behind the medicine. And so I've always said if your spirit... It's not positive, you know, and you're not truly trying to help from the heart and try to grow the best resin you can for patients, and you're like, okay, we're just going to do this for money, then I don't think you're going to be as successful.

1:55:21SpeakerIt's not a repeat type of sustainable, healthy business model. That's like the tobacco styles, like, hey, volume in cigarettes, cheaper, people will buy it. Even if they try it two times and they never try it again, there's more people will just keep advertising to people, you know? And that's just not, it works, but it's not the same model that we all subscribe to, on our end at least.

1:55:51HoratioI guess that's why we don't have so much greenhouses by the militants so quickly. If you serve an evil master, he seems to pay out a lot sooner. So I can only imagine being funded by big tobacco and what that gets you until it all comes crashing down.

1:56:08SpeakerYeah, and for us, we also, a lot of people were trying to like, I don't know, ridicule or second guess what we were doing in California, but... You know, in the beginning, and we finally were able to, on 4th of July, on Independence Day, there was, most people didn't know this, but there's several plots of land, not just the one on the 101, but the fence, the fence needed to be permanent and updated, because it was very windy there, and it's close to the 101, and so now there's a permanent fence up there, but there was other plots, and on 4th of July, the other plots We're able to get planted.

1:56:49SpeakerAnd so that's some of the pictures you saw on my Instagram. I think Horatio, you saw that one. And so those plants have been vegging there. We've been growing them tens, 40 gallons, preparing to get them in play. And they're like eight feet tall with those 200 gallons. And so that's like a lot of those are the first initial ones that with MTG, who's a local, Local second generation farmers and patients themselves.

1:57:22SpeakerAnd like I said, the spirit behind their work and their family, like there's a son, there's a father, there's best friends for 20 years. They're out there physically with the plants. And I think that was like I felt very good and it was a good approach into the initial plan was work with Work with locals and integrate them into making this a successful project. And it's stressful because it's never been done before.

1:57:55SpeakerAnd everybody gets crazy stressed out. But when you get it done and you move forward, I think it builds a different type of unity and a different type of morale. And it's good to see for a change where people are actually smiling and feeling good about their work instead of having to always look over their shoulder. Thank you for watching.

1:58:25HoratioTo have a situation in which you feel, well, if that's what they come after when they come after something, we're so on the right track that you start to feel not untouchable in the arrogant sense, but you know the road you're on is the right road if that's what it takes for the government to step in for people on the wrong road, like they were going hard for what must be a long time before it got to this.

1:58:49SpeakerYeah, I think so. You know, we can't really speak for what they were doing with the product, but It's definitely big tobacco style, so I don't know. Maybe they were doing it all to gear up to try to, they didn't sell anything. Maybe they were just doing it to gear up to stockpile raw cannabis oil for future tobacco investment deals. Who knows? They maybe never even had to sell anything, and that's their case.

1:59:21SpeakerBut like you said, that was a big plantation. That was like very well organized, so my hats are off to whoever put it together, because it looked pretty damn organized.

1:59:33BubblemanIt seems like they just...

1:59:34BarryI wonder what you were growing.

1:59:37SpeakerHuh?

1:59:38BubblemanThey didn't...

1:59:38BarryI wonder what you were growing.

1:59:40SpeakerOh, you wonder what they were growing? Yeah, what strains?

1:59:45SpeakerYou know?

1:59:49BarrySort of awful, you think?

1:59:54SpeakerSo I was going to tell you guys about the, some people were like trying to figure out what this CBN rosin hash, and I'll tell you, it's pretty exciting when you can start to look at your plant material or your phytocannabinoids in a raw state, in a solventless state, and you've got different types of lab-grade toys around you, For the first time in a while, and you're able to say, okay, well, what could we do to create different products from this?

2:00:34SpeakerWe know we could do THCA. We know we could do CVDA, do inactives. We can do activated, so we can decarboxylate the rosin. We could run it through multiple presses, screens, filtration processes. And then I was like, well, how do we do this solventless to solvent-free crystalline 99.9%? You know, try to stay into a position where you can get to the purest form, but starting with rosin.

2:01:12SpeakerSo that's where that CVN came from, which was, you know, activating the actual hash

2:01:23SpeakerAnd then utilizing heat on the pressing at different temperatures and then utilizing another chamber to be able to control temperature integration and utilizing high volumes of oxygen, which is key, and doing different techs all with rosin. And so that's why it was kind of really exciting because that was like the first time you could start to work with it like in another Another way, so you start looking at material, dry material, dry trim, small buds, you're like, wow, I could just make food grade THC oil, food grade CBD oil, food grade CBN oil, and you can start making these raw concentrates like without any chemicals.

2:02:10SpeakerAnd I put a little bit of it into the plant fat a while ago, so I already knew what was going to happen, but I showed everybody, I'm like, here it is, here's the rosin, Here's the plan of fact. I just set it down. I was like, give it 15 minutes. And then it was beautiful absorption. So I think there's a real big key to the filtration.

2:02:31SpeakerYou know, like we were using 90 and 120 bags. So we'd have a 120 bubble bag, right? And then we'd second wrap it with a 90 or second wrap it with a 45. So it goes through two layers. And so being able to play with different types of filtration layering... With different type of product is going to come with like a certain skill. Like you're going to look at the bud and like with Todd's product it was a lot moister.

2:02:58SpeakerSo it created a real oily type of rosin, which in some cases is really good. Because if you're trying to make activated rosin, you may want a little moisture in there because it's easier to manipulate. And then you're going to be activating anyway so you're going to get rid of that. So there's just a whole new dimension that opens up when you start to get to Just working with lots of concepts of using rosin into capsules, sublinguals, transdermals, edibles.

2:03:32SpeakerIt just becomes a very good replacement to a solvent oil.

2:03:40SpeakerAmen. So that is why we're going to be installing a triple press. In Colorado, and we're going to start processing food grade, what we call food grade, ash oil, you know.

2:04:03HoratioYou got to do a dabs over Denver called the triple bypass in which you just, and it's like we're working our way up to CBN here, it's getting hot in the room, we're turning it up, it's steaming off, we're adding water, and you know, make it exciting.

2:04:20SpeakerYeah, you got the concept. I tried to say that as delicately as I could without giving it all away. But that's it, you know. You're using pressure and temperature and moisture to steam things out in processes so you can speed things up. And so if you're constantly degrading it along the way and you're able to do things, it speeds it up, you know. And then there's different levels, so...

2:04:48SpeakerI'm eager to see what these guys come up with because there's always advancement in R&D so there's somebody else in our project up there that is a very talented chemist and somebody that is on the level and so that person is working on some other products that are very interesting. I think you'll like them.

2:05:17BubblemanWe are in an interesting time. Today on Instagram I saw this white powder and I was like, oh, here's someone else's THCA and then it wasn't a white THCA, it was a CBD powder and it was a water soluble. That's at least what they were claiming in this photo and I read it real quick. I kind of wished I would have saved it because I wanted to talk about it a little bit today but yeah, it was apparently a water soluble powder that you could just throw into a little drink and take your dose that way and...

2:05:45BubblemanYeah, I was going to ask Mark what he thought about that and see what you guys thought about that, but I really don't have any other information on it. I'm sure I'll see it again, though.

2:05:54SpeakerWell, oddly enough, when I was leaving Oakland, Addison was going from Oakland to L.A. Okay. And, I mean, smallest world. I drove around this economy parking lot, no shift for 20 minutes, couldn't find a spot. I go to the guard to leave. And the guy goes, oh yeah, $2. I was like, $2 to drive around this parking lot? I was like, I'm not paying $2. There was no parking.

2:06:19SpeakerHe's like, oh yeah, there's parking. I was like, where? And he points like way off. So I started to drive that way, and lo and behold, there was a parking spot right there in the front by this bus pickup. So I was like, oh, perfect. I somehow magically found the spot that I didn't see driving back and forth down the aisles. I see this guy right in front of me.

2:06:39SpeakerWho got another great spot, you know? And I'm like, man, how'd that guy get that spot? And it's Addison. And he's coming out of his car. And I'm like, oh, he gave me good luck for the parking, you know? So I had Ola with me and then he was like in the parking lot and basically he was talking about his move, you know, with Steep Hill and everything like that.

2:07:03BubblemanYeah, I guess he's not with them anymore.

2:07:05SpeakerHe's not with them anymore, but he's working on, I can tell you, he's working on some projects like that. He might be a good guest to have on because he mentioned to me the projects he's working on was like water-soluble THC and water-soluble CBD, and he had some different groups that he was working with on it. I've actually had a water-soluble THC pill or CBD pill. So I've had some friends, the same circle he's talking about, they've been working on that, And I think it's really interesting because there's different things you can do with it.

2:07:42SpeakerI definitely know it's possible. I've been toying around with it for a while. I just didn't think, you know, I felt like the absorption rate would be a lot different than if it was plant-based and plant-fat based, you know? Yeah. And if you're getting 95, 99% absorption in a sublingual,

2:08:05SpeakerAnd then you go water-based, what's that do in the way that it would target? And so I feel like it's maybe not the best way to target CB1 and CB2 because it's Watered down? As it goes down?

2:08:22BubblemanWell, Dr. David Allen was sure, like, he kept saying it would be the future of heart surgery, that there would be water-soluble cannabinoids fed through intravenous before and after big heart surgery.

2:08:34SpeakerYeah, that I could see the place. That would be a huge market for that.

2:08:38BubblemanThat's where he just saw it, like, and that's his big thing, and he's got some neat ideas about that.

2:08:45SpeakerBut to take it as a pill or to drink it, I think that I'm not sure like what that absorption would be like or how it would target. But as what you just said, yeah, 100%, that's the next billion dollar idea. If you get a water-soluble saline cannabinoid uptake that you can do in one of those saline bags that they give patients, 100%.

2:09:08BubblemanWell, Dr. David Allen is totally ready to do that work. He texts me every once in a while and he's just like, You know, get me a lab. I'll start working right away. That's the idea. And I think he knows a lot more about it than he shares initially.

2:09:25SpeakerOkay. Well, I would love to talk to that guy then.

2:09:30BubblemanYeah, well, I'll hook you guys up and you guys can talk. He's an inspiration. He's got some great knowledge and some great information. It's always good to see these doctors opening their eyes and talking. Taking that Hippocratic Oath seriously. To do no harm really should be to prescribe no farm.

2:09:55HoratioThe new Hippocratic Oath. Did you just coin that or is that a buzzword?

2:09:59BubblemanI don't know. I just coined that for sure, dude. And in fact, you can tell people you coined it. It's all good.

2:10:06SpeakerWell, I think that there's an article coming out in the Ukiah Daily that I'm not sure if you got credited on it, but when we were talking about taking the harm out of pharmaceuticals.

2:10:21BubblemanYeah, I've been saying that for 20 years since we started, well, even more, 23 years.

2:10:26SpeakerWell, I think that's going to be in the paper.

2:10:29BubblemanIt should be. It's a great, and I could care less if it, you know. I'm not really stuck on quotes being mine or other people's. A great quote is a great quote, and that one's taking the harm out of pharmaceuticals and putting the farm back in, that's powerful stuff when you see the spelling and you realize what the person's saying.

2:10:49BubblemanAll right, someone in chat's already trademarked everything we just said. In fact, they're trademarking everything we say as we say it.

2:11:00HoratioJust like in two weeks, I'm going to hear some brutal regurgitation, like, we've got to take the barn out of pharmaceuticals and put the fun back. What?

2:11:13BubblemanOh, fuck, that's funny shit. 11-11 in Vancouver right now.

2:11:18SpeakerI do want to say that it is unusual that now when I go to different places, no matter where I go, no matter what situation it is, One of, someone that like watches the show, I was like had this ear, this crazy ear infection where I couldn't be able to hear since the cup. So I can actually hear now. So I worked through it. I tried everything.

2:11:43SpeakerI did it all. Everything you could imagine. Ear candling? Everything except the ear candling.

2:11:50BubblemanOh, ear candling is pretty good.

2:11:52HoratioYou should have done it with cannabis lipids. If you ear candle with cannabis lipids, no harm.

2:11:59SpeakerWe should make cannabis candles.

2:12:01BubblemanI like it. The dude in chat's already trademarked it, and he's got them manufactured in China, and he's selling them on hempcandles.com already. Oh, fuck.

2:12:11HoratioIt's not real cannabis wax. They've already China hemp the lipids. We're getting bad lipids in our candle earwax already, and it's only been 10 seconds. Isn't that a perfect metaphor for life?

2:12:23SpeakerYeah, but what's happened is, you know, the thing where the idea can spring from, Hash Church becomes like a consumer's report. You know, we could all just gang up and shoot it down if we wanted to.

2:12:35BubblemanA consumer report. Well, in a sense, it is a consumer report because the one thing that I think people enjoy about Hash Church is that we, I think we try to have a good high integrity.

2:12:47SpeakerYeah, but what I was saying earlier was like, no matter where I go, somebody says, hey, you Are you Tony from Hash Church? And I'm like, geez, this Hash Church thing is getting really popular. And I was in a Walmart and I couldn't even hear in my ear and somebody came up to me and said that. And I was like, yeah. I don't even know what to say anymore because it's like Hash Church, you have somehow made Hash Church so popular.

2:13:13SpeakerIt used to be like four or five guys talking live and like five to fifty people like, hey, what's, like, listening and, you know, and then all of a sudden it was like, Like you said, after Robert Clark came on, I think it took off pretty big.

2:13:28BubblemanWell, people are hungry for the knowledge, and we are very eager to share the knowledge fairly freely, really. I mean, it reminds me of the Jason Silva video, if you Google radical openness, and he's talking about the concept that truly we're practicing here in Hash Church, the way we're just bouncing ideas off each other and kind of expanding upon them and He's talking about how these ideas, eventually they have like virtual sex and those ideas produce more baby ideas and it's like this radical openness of like, it's just a cool concept.

2:14:04BubblemanHe's got a few good concepts, that and technology, like this technology allowing us to increase our line of sight and he talks about line of sight in a sense of empathy being connected to our line of sight, out of sight, out of mind. How suffering can occur in the world when it's not in front of you. It's easier to accept and not really acknowledge it. But then you have this technology like the one we're using right now that is a prosthetic to our line of sight.

2:14:35BubblemanIt expands our line of sight greatly. And so now we're able to see and hear things that are going on in the world and sort of feel an empathy for them. Like when we hear that this Shona woman was in jail. I guess she's out on bail now, but still facing this beast. It's nice to have the technology to connect us in a way that allows us to do that.

2:14:58BubblemanAnd I think a lot of people are looking to connect. And it's why there's 630 people watching right now and vibing off the conversation.

2:15:14BubblemanYeah, someone just wrote me, radical openness is truly breeding a revolution. And it's cool because the most recent book I read by K. Eric Drexler is called Radical Abundance. And it's mostly about nanotechnology, but it does really give you some unique point of views on that radical abundance that is really available to us at all times. Even though we're kind of stuck in this sort of ant mentality of how we need to get things done, our consciousness is about to take a hyper leap And we may not be collecting things in the same way that we have been for the past several hundred or several thousand years for that matter.

2:15:56BubblemanJason Silva, super inspirational. Check him out if you haven't seen him. I've been vibing out on his two three-minute videos lately and telling you, the guys, I wanted to invite him on Hash Church. I googled him and then I saw Joe Rogan already had him on his podcast. I was like, no shit. I don't know if he pops. Or if he's into cannabis as a medicine. It seems like he is.

2:16:15BubblemanHe's definitely into psychedelics being used as a prosthetic for the mind. I'm in the ocean. Archive. What's going on, Fletch?

2:16:31Archive SeedsHey, how's it going? Oh, sorry. Hold on. What's going on, Fletch's dog? Yeah, she's got her thing going on. Hold on. She's a good protection animal.

2:16:46BubblemanGood dogs barking in Hash Church every once in a while.

2:16:48Archive SeedsIt's been known to happen. How's everything going with you guys?

2:16:53BubblemanIt's going pretty darn good. We've got a small group left today. It's been a nice interesting conversation. We had the Chalice crew was in earlier, Todd and Tricone Technologies, Kay and Rob Clark and Etienne and Lauren. And I think Cuban came in, but he wasn't with them. He was going to go meet up with them. So definitely was feeling the vibes of Chalice. Be a nice event to be at for sure right now.

2:17:19BubblemanIt sounds like Dougie did a great job putting it together, or Dougie and his team did a great job putting it together, it sounds like.

2:17:26Archive SeedsYeah, I'm glad to see an event that's not just weed-centric only. It's doing glass art and Other artists, and it's a little bit more music, a little bit more festival atmosphere, and I think that's a good thing for the scene.

2:17:42SpeakerYeah, it really is. I wanted to say one thing. I got the privilege and honor of judging the non-solvent entries, and hey, there's some really good things in there. There are a lot of nice chirps, a lot of things that smelled real nice, a couple of ropes. This is a dope contest, kids. You don't need to put the CBD things in there. We... Don't need to muddle our minds, and we're trying to do some work, so you can leave those out next time.

2:18:10SpeakerMuch respect, we did them anyway, and that's it, but don't bother again next time. And really there was, I know it's not a hash cheese contest, but this is hash church, so let me explain something here. These were pretty nice extracts of terpenes. They were water hashes, they were insufficiently dried, and Smelled real nice, but they were all spoiling. They were doing what we call turning whitey.

2:18:36SpeakerAnd when you live in a humid place like the Netherlands, it makes perfect sense that things get wet. When you're here in one of the most arid climates in Northern America, really, guys, you've got to dry your stuff out more. To me, what they were were spoiling resin samples rather than hashish, by and large. Yeah, sorry about that, but I think if you really want to have a hashish contest, things should be pressed.

2:19:04SpeakerYou should make hashish. You shouldn't just shake some resin glands off of a plant. So I like what you're saying, that it's really diverse here. It's respecting lots of different things. There's awards for edibles. There's some for everybody here at Chalice. It's a great event. But yeah, the whole competition thing could be tightened up. And my first suggestion would be just get rid of the buds. You know, that's really nice herb samples and some of the most honest and true and best things that were entered in a lot of ways because they weren't adulterated, you know, or extracted or anything, however you want to see it.

2:19:42SpeakerBut much respect to the growers more than just about anybody in it. And a lot of great extracts. I didn't look at the solvent stuff, but there are a lot of reports. There's certainly plenty of it. But there's more solvent entries than there was weed or, you know, bud entries, and there's Way more bud entries than there were solventless entries, and there were more solventless than there were in frozen.

2:20:03SpeakerSo the purpose of this, when you walk around, is people are dabbing in water, ash, or solvent, oil, or whatever. But it's a dab fest. And people are smoking joints, but they're old farts like me. And really, it's a different thing. And it's kind of confusing to have all the weed, and judges expected to judge this, Judges got a quarter pound weed, dudes. I mean, this is crazy.

2:20:31SpeakerYou know, it's like, fine, fantastic, wow, roll around in it, take a bath, you know, whatever, but it's kind of over the top for somebody trying to judge something, so. I took the littlest work, and it was, there was plenty of it, so. Yeah, just to think about, upscale, and you know, it's.

2:20:50BubblemanDid you do this?

2:20:52SpeakerUh-huh.

2:20:53BubblemanYou're doing solventless judging?

2:20:55SpeakerYeah, I do the solventless thing, yeah.

2:20:57BubblemanYeah, this is a thing that we've talked a lot about, you know, the different situations of the drying of the water hash, and I'm glad that you mentioned the temperature and the climate there, because often in this conversation, the problem is you'll get someone from like the Netherlands or from the Pacific Northwest talking, oh, you've got to really, you know, you've got to dry your hash properly, it's got to be done like this, it's good to use a desiccant, and you've got someone like in this super arid, like dry-ass climate like the desert in like New Mexico or Southern California or whatever and you get people telling you that, no, you don't need to do that.

2:21:30BubblemanThis shit dries right away. And it was only in the last five to ten years really that I started sort of telling people, listen, you're not doing anyone a favor by telling them how to dry their hash for your specific region if you don't even know where their region is. Don't give advice to someone to dry hash if you're from the desert and they're from the Pacific Northwest.

2:21:52SpeakerThey're going to have to dry it differently. Well, there's... These people are like largely from the desert who entered this. Yeah. And still, stuff's spoiling. They don't take the time. Frenchy can always write about everything he's saying pretty much, okay? It's the old hippie road warrior explanation of it, but you throw a little science spin on what Frenchy says, he's got it all right. If you want to make something to smoke, you make something to smoke.

2:22:20SpeakerIf you want to make something to vaporize on a nail... Great. I mean, why process it anymore? I get it. But it's not, wasn't really intended to be, but maybe should be, a hashish contest instead of a resin preparation contest, which is really what it is. Out of the samples I had, one could be pressed into a piece of hash. Uno, solamente uno. You know, this is not that great.

2:22:45BubblemanWow, they caked out bad, huh?

2:22:47SpeakerYeah, yeah, it's all Whitey, man. It was all of it. And I got them. They had them for up to two weeks before I got them. So I'm not, maybe the people who entered can't be responsible for everything. But, you know, there's a lot of, they were trying to do too much, I think is all I'm saying.

2:23:06HoratioWell, Rob, do you think the culture's changed? Basically, people are chasing the smell of grapes that are just rotting and going, ooh, ooh, ooh, that's a fine wine, and don't actually go through the process to develop a fine wine. They've lost sight of what a fine wine is, and everyone's just chasing basically just rotting grapes because just before they turn to poison, they're at their most Thank you so much for joining us.

2:23:58SpeakerA steady stream of whatever commodity you're dealing in that comes from cannabis. You can't do this up and down thing and run a business, I wouldn't think. I'm not a businessman. But you've got to have stuff that can be stored for a while, and you need to know how to store it. And you can't have stuff that your vendors have to keep in a freezer. I mean, come on now.

2:24:14SpeakerIt's not ice cream.

2:24:18HoratioIs Todd spanking on camera? I'm so confused. It's a background behind you. I hope it's on you.

2:24:26SpeakerI just turned around at the door. They're waiting for me to go. It's a hash church. We're out of here. We're getting kinky. See you down there, huh?

2:24:37BubblemanHave a great day, guys.

2:24:39Etienne FontanThank you, everybody. We'll see you at hash church. Thank you very much, Mark. Thank you, everybody. It's a pleasure. It's an honor. We'll see you all later on. Much love. See you next week. Thanks, guys.

2:24:51BubblemanAwesome. Awesome talking to you.

2:24:54SpeakerI saw Addison in the airport, and then we were talking about all kinds of stuff. He was like, hey, did you guys enter in the non-solvent? And I was like, no, no. And he was like, yeah, I didn't think so. I was like, why, were you a judge? He was like, yeah. He was like, it was okay. It was okay. He was like, I didn't think you guys entered.

2:25:15SpeakerI was like, nope, we didn't.

2:25:17BubblemanWell, you know what, it's a tough thing, too, because it's like, You're attracting a certain, I mean, it's why Cuban is such an anomaly and why he can, very few people will take the best of the best and enter it into a contest. You really have to like want to win that contest to like do that kind of work, grow that many plants and produce that beautiful resin that you could literally like I mean, I don't know.

2:25:43BubblemanLike, just from my perspective, I know it's definitely like a business thing. You want to build your brand and you want to... But it's like when you... The whole industry, the amount of contests that happen every fucking week, it seems, it's a lot of resin that people are just giving up to be judged. Like, an incredible amount.

2:26:03Archive SeedsI agree. And to go off of what... Rob was saying with running the contest correctly and essentially like we talked about before, having a consultant who's an expert like Rob or whoever to kind of decipher the entries because it's becoming to that point that for... Just your average consumer, it's hard to even know sometimes what you're even consuming. I mean, rosin looks like BHO.

2:26:33Archive SeedsIf you're trying to judge something and you're not the hash maker or don't have tons of experience, I don't know a lot about wine. I don't know the differences between a lot of different types of wine. You shouldn't have me, even though I may enjoy wine a lot, you shouldn't have me be a judge At a real wine contest that's, you know, for people around the world to judge and nitpick.

2:26:55Archive SeedsI don't know enough. I don't have enough experience. And I think that's one thing we're seeing as well. And, you know, also with the whiting out, I mean, I saw all the entries from San Francisco only a week after the event, and every single sample was buttered out, you know, dry sift included. So, I mean, it's not... You know, I think it's also how things are handled, how people handle it in the process, all that stuff, and it's not, you know, I think the, not necessarily rules and regulations for the judging, but rules and regulations for handling of the products and the entries and all that stuff should be maybe more well defined.

2:27:38BubblemanYep, no, I agree with that for sure. I mean, I see people all the time with, It took me a long, I spent over 10 years trying to teach people how to not press wet bubble together. Like over 10 years really promoting and trying to explain to people, listen, you can't, you're going to get this buttered out product. I saw it time and time and time again and I'm now even seeing it in people's rosin.

2:27:59BubblemanPeople are like, oh yeah, my rosin only stays stable and then it turns to butter. I'm like, your rosin turns to butter? They're like, oh yeah, the rosin turns to butter. And I'm like, I made this over a month ago with D420K and it's still pulling snaps. It's been out. I don't keep it in anything. I've taken it on a plane and I've come to Manitoba where it's humid as fuck.

2:28:20BubblemanIt was 30 degrees Celsius the other day. The humidity made it 40 degrees. To give you an idea of what kind of humidity we're dealing with, it's like tropical. You walk outside and it smacks you in the face. And I've had this sitting outside for like hours next to my denail by my mom's pool, taking dabs. And it's still stable. It's still... Paul and Snap Taffy. So, I don't know.

2:28:46BubblemanIt'll be an interesting thing that we'll be talking about for a while and to learn whether it's terpene. I think the majority of the time it's water. That doesn't mean it can't be terpenes or it can't be, you know, a particular weird resin that really absorbs water at an unnormal rate and it just is buttering out even in its own jar. But I am also of... Of the mentality that keep a little in your freezer if you want to preserve it, but if you're going for a more Frenchy style, if you want to produce a smoke, if you want to cure something and alter the terpene profile to alter the cannabinoid profile, then you have to leave it out.

2:29:27BubblemanIt's not ever going to cure in a fridge. Can we all agree upon that?

2:29:31Archive SeedsYeah, for sure. I agree. I think a lot of the time it is water, for sure. But I also think that I've seen a lot of really nice hash that I know has been sitting out for, you know, three, four, five weeks in a, you know, 25% humidity, 30% humidity, 55 or 60 degree room and you put a gram of that in a little container, put it in your pocket, take it out, next day it's turned to butter.

2:29:57Archive SeedsAnd that, you know, that hash had been drying under what most people do in a real drying room, real cold curing room for, you know, over a month. So, I mean, it's one of those things that's, you know, was that properly dried or not? Well, I mean, if it's been sitting out for five weeks, I mean, if you have to start waiting a year to smoke your hash, which is like, you know, going back to what Rob was saying about a real hash is an old cured hash from, you know, a hash he's producing region of the, you know, You know, there is a difference maybe between hashish and let's say a fresh hash or are we chasing freshness essentially at this point?

2:30:41Archive SeedsWell, mine too. These guys… That's a cure, right?

2:30:44BubblemanThese hash makers were drying their material for a long time. So when we say we dried our hash for five weeks, these guys might say, well, I dried the weed for six months before I made hash with it. Right, right. And so that's a different level of dry, and I think that's where that membrane, that wax membrane with the moisture content comes into play, because I know when I take a macro photograph, when it looks like a water balloon stretched out just full, that's when it's the most photogenic.

2:31:14BubblemanWhen I dry it properly, it shrivels up like a grape, and it still has flavor, it still has potency, it still has full effect. It's just, and that's the stuff like that I brought to Amsterdam last year, the Sweet Skunk Dry Sift. If you looked under a microscope, it looked like little kind of shriveled up raisins. They definitely didn't look like perfect orbs. They had been dried very well.

2:31:40Archive SeedsAnd that's kind of like what the freeze dryer does essentially, you know, because we never end up planing it or sieving or anything. It kind of has a similar texture. We've done batches where we take the

2:32:13Archive SeedsTake the material, dry it regular, and dry the other half of the batch in the freeze dryer. The freeze dryer definitely destroys some turps if you let it dry fully until it's completely raisined out and it's just like powder no matter what you do to it. Is it stable? Well, I guess, but it won't press out anymore. We're having really interesting results with the freeze dryer and just what a, quote unquote, Really dry hash is, right?

2:32:43Archive SeedsBecause, I mean, technically a freeze dryer should be about as close to getting fully dry or evaporating all water-type solubles in the hash from it. You know, a vacuum in a freeze drying process is pretty efficient in doing that.

2:32:58BubblemanWhat temperature are you freeze drying at, like minus 50 or even lower?

2:33:01Archive SeedsYeah, I think it goes to negative 40, and we've put a... A thermometer inside the unit as it goes through the drying process, because it has heaters inside of the frozen chamber that when they turn on, it's under vacuum, it causes the water to sublimate. So what we're seeing is that the hash is getting really dry as a result of that, and it's actually like buttering out in the thing on its own.

2:33:37SpeakerInteresting. Yeah.

2:33:38Archive SeedsYeah, it's interesting. People buy a freeze dryer and start messing with it, especially how it reacts with all kinds of different products. Let's say you take some really, really fresh dry sift that you just separated and put that in the freeze dryer and then clean it again later because now that was resin that was too wet or too moist to work with before or not dry enough, so to speak.

2:34:06Archive SeedsSo, you know, like you guys are saying, I think it's a, you know, we're chasing freshness. We're trying to make hash with as fresh of resin as possible in an attempt to preserve terpenes, I suppose, but, you know, to what benefit other than flavor?

2:34:26BubblemanWell, that's it. And I had this conversation with Rob Last year in Amsterdam, he kind of hinted, almost like a devil's advocate, but really just being like, hey, it could just as easily be true, that one of the reasons these old school guys have appreciation for that aged hash, because the terpenes that are lost in the aging are meant to be lost. They're too harsh and caustic.

2:34:50BubblemanThey're too volatile. When you hit those ones, they're like, oh! Whereas it's like you get some of these hashes and I've experienced it myself so I can understand, you know, a hash that is so tasty and so incredible but smooth on the exhale and doesn't like turn you red. Like nowadays people just associate coughing and turning red as a normal thing with taking a rip. But we are smoking resin fresher than we ever have before.

2:35:16BubblemanAnd what we're smoking fresher than we ever have before are those terpenes. So we just have to be aware that that could go either way. It could be an extremely beneficial thing. It could be like, oh, actually, you know what? Some of those more caustic terpenes should be allowed to volatize out into the air and then just leave this. And I've seen it with strains. I'm sure you guys are aware.

2:35:40BubblemanIt's got a certain smell when it's still moist. And as that moisture is lost, then the smell changes. But then even that bud or hash can change smell. Over the course of time, once a certain group of terpenes are gone, once they volatilize, these other ones underneath are able to sort of bloom out where you're like, wow, I never even smelled that smell before, but yet there it is now that this strain has been allowed to cure a little bit longer.

2:36:10Archive SeedsYeah, definitely. Definitely agree with you there. I think the presence and quantity of terpenes, period, And what kind of terpenes and quite possibly even rare cannabinoids that we don't even really know about yet and a high concentration of those could potentially be the culprit of a lot of the buttering. With water being the main culprit, but also if something's hygroscopic and it's pulling moisture from the air surrounding it, Not hydrophilic in the case where you'd be making water hash in direct contact with transfer water, but like, for example, with dry sift.

2:36:54Archive SeedsWe definitely get dry sift that butters out. That's just, it's dry enough to sift, but it's not dry enough to sit in a jar.

2:37:06HoratioWould you also consider that modern nutrients are also a big thing that plays a role in the resins change with the new experimental, hey, you know, we can feed a plant this and it'll stay in the plant and raise its weight, you know, and we'll call it bud booster, but it really is just residuals we found a way to accumulate in a plant. Thank you for watching.

2:37:50Archive SeedsWe do 100% raw organics up here in Washington. It's from crab meal, fish bone meal, kelp meal, fish hydrolysate, all that kind of stuff. No bottle nutrients at all. That hasn't really had a huge impact. I would say even that that herb, because it's higher in terpenes, ends up buttering the fastest if you process fresh material from it. When I used to run a We've got a lot of stuff going on.

2:38:18Archive SeedsWe've got a lot of stuff going on. We've got a lot of stuff going on.

2:38:40Archive SeedsThe more synthetic nutrients and the lower concentration of terpenes usually meant a more stable and meltier hash even with less residue, but that was the pre-nail vaping that was lighter on a screen, which with some really melty hashes makes them leave more residue than they would if you were vaporizing them on a nail. I've definitely had that experience.

2:39:04BubblemanI think Horatio hit it on the head with all these strange nutrients. When I really saw it with my own eyes for the first time, because I'm sure I had seen it through dry sifting and wet washing and trying to understand. It didn't take me long to figure out that there was no point in washing commercial product because it was just that merch. It was Reggie's. It was terrible.

2:39:24BubblemanIt was that badly grown, deeply affected by the Thank you for joining us.

2:39:51BubblemanAnd then the thicker ones that are literally like the whole head is almost a wax membrane. It seems like they're growing wax more than they're growing cannabinoid profiles and terpene profiles. It just causes this uber buttering effect that's just not...

2:40:10HoratioSo Tony, what would you say now with the solventless revolution, everybody's compacting and compressing and basically using heat to...

2:40:22HoratioAll of these different factors that, for instance, so solventless hash oil has no thing like winterizing, which tends to expose a grower's faux pas. If I didn't have that, how the hell would I see all these different nutrients that have showed up in my filters? I don't want a certain generation of people to think it's some moral free pass that anything made with Thank you for joining us.

2:41:15HoratioYou know, what have you seen when things didn't go your way that you'd say, hey everybody, if your screen ever accumulates this pasty material, watch out for something I know? Anything like that showing up in mechanical separation?

2:41:28SpeakerYeah, so that's, it's even more stringent on a press system. So whatever you're putting in your plant, or whatever the condition of your plants are, It's going to, when you say quality in, quality out, it shows it even more. So you have less leniency in pressing, in my opinion. And so you have to test things for mold visually with HPLC. You have to go through different types of understanding if it's indoor versus outdoor.

2:42:03SpeakerGo through the testing, molds, pesticides, inspections, Before you go through all that stuff, if you know you're working with a good grower or you're self-growing and you plush it properly and it's organic, then that's the whole point of why you want to press things out because you want to live to a certain gold standard, if you will, of growing because then the pressing actually comes out proper.

2:42:27SpeakerSo it's like gold in, gold out. It's the same old thing and it's going to show up even more. There's no curve this time. You know, like when you press it out. So you could do double screens. You know, on hydrocarbon extract machines, they have a 50 micron. So, you know, we've got 40 microns, 20 microns. You could double wrap, triple wrap, things like that, just to be on the safe side, which is why I was telling you earlier we were doing two.

2:42:57SpeakerSo if you did a 120 and a 45, you're doing pretty good as far as filtering, you know. But yeah, if you see something like very like smells really odd or weird or there's a slimy look to the, like just the same thing on the rosin, if it gets like a weird, like if you've ever seen, I'll tell you what it would look like. If you've ever seen a boat and you're trolling or fishing on a lake and there's that oil film that's coming off from your boat that's on the water.

2:43:31HoratioThe same stuff the pigeons are always walking in on the, in the curb.

2:43:34SpeakerYeah. Yeah, but this is like in the back of the boat. You know what I'm talking about when you see you're just kind of just barely idling. You shut it off.

2:43:43Archive SeedsYeah, two-stroke oil. Two-stroke oil.

2:43:46SpeakerThat's it. The two-stroke oil is just sitting there on the top of the ocean. Everybody's fine with it, and you're fishing, and you see it going through your line, and you're like, I don't know if that's really that cool. That oil right there can show up in your rosin if you're doing big batches. If you see an oil slick that's something that's like a light blue versus your contract of something dark or something else that's That's there, then you know it's bad.

2:44:12SpeakerAnd then you have the same test that you would. I mean, it's going to melt, but if you try it on a nail or something or on your denail or whatever, and you see like something's weird or it smokes weird or it smells weird, same thing. Now, the interesting thing is, like I said earlier, I'm working with somebody that like we can take it to this level and then we can try to take it to another level, winterizing it And doing other things with it.

2:44:41SpeakerSo we're working with that right now to see what happens.

2:44:45Archive SeedsWell, I've seen that same phenomenon with like an oil slick on the top of the water when you make bubble. But I mean, it's, I know that, I mean, we've always grown all our own product. I know it wasn't sprayed with anything during its flowering cycle at all. Not any kind of pesticide or anything at all. I mean, we, you know, our whole thing with growing is to never even touch the plant.

2:45:07Archive SeedsOnce it's initiated flowering other than, you know, training some branches and putting them in the net. Otherwise, I mean, if I see someone come in to my room and they grab a bud and, like, grab it like that and bend it over or something, oh, it makes me cringe, you know. I'm just like, you just destroyed that thing and put it all over your hand, like. Grab one little sugar leaf and rub it and smell it.

2:45:32Archive SeedsDon't rape my plants here.

2:45:36SpeakerThat finger oil is like two-stroke.

2:45:40Archive SeedsYeah, and that's something that I've also seen in the past is that if you have a garden that produces large fat nuggets, someone goes in and essentially destroys some cells on your top nugget. It can be a source of causing mold by handling the plant. I mean, it'd be the same thing as like bruising a fruit while it's on the tree. It's going to cause that part of the plant to start to degrade quicker and potentially mold sooner, especially once the cola forms and becomes large.

2:46:13Archive SeedsYou know, like you're talking about concerns with, you know, my biggest concern with flower rosin is pesticides and chemicals used during the flowering process. Phospholode, which has dominozide and paclbutazole in it. Both dominozide was outlawed in 1998 by the USDA, which they outlawed barely anything against use on apple crops because at pasteurization temperatures it turned Parts of apples into a carcinogen that could potentially give children cancer, and they pulled it off the market.

2:46:53Archive SeedsIt's still used widely on trees to halt their growth so that they don't encroach on your home, but they're not used on food products. Products like gravity, snowstorm, phospholode, there's a whole host of what they call kelp stuff, but it's really just got these flower hardener chemicals in it. I'd say 80 plus percent of the OG Kush grown in LA that I know, if not way more, is grown using phospholode.

2:47:27Archive SeedsTo rosin that stuff at 300 plus degrees, which is a higher temperature than pasteurization, to me is a major health concern, period. You're squishing something that's full of this chemical that was meant to harden and make this bud larger. And now you're going to squeeze the actual plant material. Now harvesting the resin from that and making rosin, I'm still concerned about it, but not as much as actually pressing the plant material.

2:47:58HoratioBecause you're decontaminating that leaf surface area that's storing the majority of it, so you already fraction it down. Exactly. That's kind of what everybody's given it, SHO, a moral pass, to the point that I couldn't make a contest because I didn't... They're like, oh, we've got to do solvent testing and it's due tomorrow. And I'm like, I heard about the contest today. I'm sorry, I passed. Oh, but, you know, solventless entries like, you know, rosin, we don't test that stuff.

2:48:25HoratioAnd I'm like, uh, do you understand I know the loophole now? Huh? Fuck off. You know what happens when people clean their screens to reuse them with ISO? It's under the same scrutiny. It's not some holier-than-thou, just because it's an everyman solution. No one knows anything about heat in that way and Tony's, you know, gold in, gold out helps him Hold himself back from, you could say, the anomalies that are the world.

2:48:51HoratioBut people watch Hash Church, they get pumped. Oh man, I'm going to make some CBN. The first sign of black stuff, I'm good to go. I'm helping the world. And I'm like, well, you could just be producing another RSO just horizontally in a steam press. And RSO is making people barf night and day because the contaminants are the triggers that are upsetting people. It's not the cannabinoids.

2:49:12HoratioSo I get weary of the fact that we're in that fortunate group that would never, it gets filtered out, but the populace is going to be like, yeah, did you hear that shit? Man, I'm going to go to that dispensary with, you know, those $75 ounces and load up and get five dudes and rosin the shit out of some stuff. We're, We're healing people. It starts to go back to that we healing people mentality.

2:49:36Archive SeedsAnd that's supposed to be healthier and it's not necessarily like you're saying.

2:49:40SpeakerI would like to add that if you're going to make CBN, notice I did it with bubble hash. Like it was already...

2:49:47HoratioExactly. It's that's how I kind of I'm like sometimes I'm like we need to long format the why so I'm like explain the things that have fucked up that you wouldn't talk about and you weed it out in the beginning because those little triggers like I don't like that swivel it just it ain't right You may filter out that guy, but someone goes, oh, my shit has that.

2:50:06HoratioOh, my God. Oh, my God. And it's an important day for them in their consumption of cannabis.

2:50:12SpeakerWell, and I think it's also important is how intimate are you to the resin? So, like, when we're working with people in North California where they're members, you know, and MTG is one of them, and they're, you know, you look at, okay, how are we growing this? What's going into it? And you only work with other people that are, like right now, we're just doing sun resin or LD outdoor or greenhouse, you know, things that are as organic as we can start with.

2:50:41SpeakerOtherwise, you're right. Yeah, if you're spraying your plant at all or anything that's, you know, it could be bad. It could be real bad. And then the most important thing is you do need to test that rosin oil because, like, when you're making, you know, 500 grams of rosin oil, let's say SHO, And I'm just specifically wanting that for edibles or capsules. Then you have to do more testing on that.

2:51:06SpeakerSo you have to test that, see what's in it, see if there's any pesticides, see if there's any molds, test it for any solvents, test it for everything you can before you would use it. That's super important. You know, and that's why things, a lot of times people don't understand why medicine takes a long time to get on the shelf. That's another reason. Because sometimes you go through everything, you get testing, And let's say you don't have solvents or anything, but let's say your test result was different.

2:51:35SpeakerYou're like, huh, that's a physical weird anomaly. And then you try to wait five days and retest it again in another way. And you're like, okay, now I got a different result. You know, and then you're like, all right, one says 50%, one says 70%. You can't make medicine that way. And then you go, okay, let's try it. You know, that's what's going on all the time because we don't have the full access like in Colorado, in my opinion, to Super accurate testing.

2:52:03SpeakerThey're way off from each other. They're not 6%. They're like 20% or 10% at best. So I think that's like a huge part of it. And that's why I said I'm working with somebody because we've got access to different kinds of equipment that we can get a little bit more accurate readings from. So I'm interested to do those kind of things. The testing is really the future of how you're going to look at stuff.

2:52:32Archive SeedsYeah, I mean, to go off what you guys are saying, I mean, you know, testing is going to be the thing because now that we're at concentrates, just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is, you know, in terms of products. You know, there's a lot of gold oil that's made from complete trash material. I've seen it and people pay a lot of money for stuff just because visually it catches their eye, not because they know that it's clean.

2:52:58Archive SeedsI mean, you know, I don't think I don't think rosin made from powdery mildew herb is going to be any better for you than BHO made from powdery mildew herb. That much I can probably guarantee. Dr. I fear it's worse because you added the bad heat. Dr. It's worse, exactly, because you're using heat and temperature and introducing water to that microorganism as well through the process. You know, just because someone else says it's better doesn't mean you shouldn't ask the question how and why yourself.

2:53:32SpeakerYeah. I thought, so what doesn't, on PM, let's see here. I remember talking about this a while ago. At a certain temperature, like a boiling point, I think you actually kill off the powdery mildew.

2:53:52Archive SeedsRight, but are there any toxins that are residual from the presence of that microorganism, which in case of fungi and bacteria, there often are, as a result of their byproducts and waste products of that organizm living on your material?

2:54:07SpeakerSo the melting point for powdery mildew, I think it was 100 degrees Celsius, let me see.

2:54:15Archive SeedsRight, but if it just kills the pathogen, that's not really what I'm as concerned about.

2:54:20HoratioNo, well, there you go. If it's 100 Celsius and people are pressing at 180F, which is 89.

2:54:26SpeakerThat's also on hash, though. That's also on hash. That's not on flowers. People are pressing at 300 degrees plus on flowers.

2:54:34Archive SeedsBut is the flower actually reaching 300 degrees, or are we just using a 300 degree press to enact enough pressure and heat quick enough to push it out? Steaming it out with the water, for sure. Right. You're not necessarily getting to 300 degrees just because you're using a 300 degree iron. Just like if I put a chicken in the oven at 350, doesn't mean it's going to be 350 in five seconds.

2:55:02Archive SeedsIt's going to take an hour.

2:55:03SpeakerWhat if you were actually making activated oil, though, and you threw it in an oven for 140 degrees Celsius for...

2:55:10HoratioThat's a better standard for decontamination. But that's not what people are running out to rosin for. It's to get a new market and a new holy grail, holier than now industry of moral high ground. All these new BHO makers are like, I know, I'll be able to make rosin and then I'll be able to get a different aspect of that market. But it's the same ethic, it's the same Very few people have the fortune to even interact with the growers, so the majority of producers are dealing with a middleman who basically passes on bag names.

2:55:41HoratioHe takes no responsibility for what he puts forward.

2:55:46SpeakerOkay, the effects of the substance on human health. I know it affects autoimmune, but in this it's talking about no carcinogen effects. No effects exposure were documented. Mild alkaline irritation of the respiratory system, coughing, sneezing, possible breathing difficulty in acute cases, mild eye irritant, possible reddening due to alkaline effects or abrasion, no LD50 information found relating to normal routes of occupational exposure.

2:56:22HoratioIt's a whole different thing to, that doesn't represent, I guess, inhalation though. Well, I could really... Yeah, to concentrate and blast that into one's lungs is a whole different scenario.

2:56:34SpeakerBasically, my plasma lungs... Yeah, so then you have to get into... And I'm not trying to build a case for people that have power humility by any case, but just on the devil's advocate, you know, your nail or anything else is going to be over 100 degrees Celsius. So if you're looking at what would be the... Where you would have to really concern yourself is when you're saying, so this is also like if you look at flowers, right?

2:57:01SpeakerSo if you're just smoking flowers versus a concentrate, then when you concentrate something, whether it's BHO or rosin, you're going that 10 to 1. You're taking 10 grams of something and making 1 gram of it. So then you're exponentially increasing those symptoms. And I know that For patients that have autoimmune and respiratory conditions or asthma, like if you have asthma and that gets into your lungs in a concentrated form, that could be death.

2:57:31SpeakerThat could be the end of you, for sure. So I don't know why this thing, this little identification from the USDA doesn't have that, but they don't have inhalation on it.

2:57:44HoratioNo, well, they don't have, I mean, because the thing is, the way they test for a lot of things, and they're like, well, it's safe, and it's like, well, what if I concentrated down the mystery oil and then inhaled that? Oh, well, there's no test for inhaling mystery oil in a concentrated way. Are you, it's just like people go, butane is safe. I'm like, well, it's not tested for making inhalable products because dabbing is not something that typically is recognized as a way to ingest medicine.

2:58:11HoratioCompared to an inhaler filled with steroids and other things is a way to inhale.

2:58:14SpeakerYeah, the only thing you can look at on that is the lighter, utilizing the same thing. So I think a lighter is like, they range from like as low as 5 parts per million up to 10 or 15 parts per million. And I think there's a safety on that too on this.

2:58:34Archive SeedsSo I'm reading a little thing on skunk farm research, which I'm sure most of you guys are. Familiar with his stuff. I don't have that much knowledge about toxins produced by spores and things like that, but he's saying mold spores are the principal source of allergic reactions, but allergic reactions aside, some of the molds produce aflatoxins that attack our central nervous system and livers. Mold material can easily be removed by filtration, but filtration doesn't remove whatever those aflatoxins are.

2:59:10Archive SeedsI think it's the same thing in that type of scenario. It depends on what mold it is. Powdery mildew, we're still not even sure what species that is. No one's even figured out what species it is that's inhabiting the cannabis plant. There's thousands of species of powdery and downy mildew, both of which look pretty much the same on the surface of the plant but do not infect the same species and don't have the same climates that they live in.

2:59:35Archive SeedsI've grown plants outside here in Washington with blackberry thickets and cucumber plants and stuff covered in some type of powdery downy mildew. I have this red fire tree in the backyard that has a powdery downy mildew that it has every season. We don't get PM. We don't treat for PM. We don't have to because we've eradicated it ever from any tissue. And we don't use sulfur burners or Eagle 20 or anything like that unless I'm paranoid about someone that came over and I'm like, I've got to burn some sulfur in the bedroom because this dirty guy came over and smoked some weed in my house.

3:00:15Archive SeedsSo I think depending on what mold it is and all that kind of stuff, it's going to have a bigger influence about what When you're pressing with rosin, BHO, what type of toxins or what might come out of it and how that can be harmful to your health?

3:00:32BubblemanWell, I think it's a super important dialogue and one that I definitely want to continue here on Hash Church. I unfortunately have to go now, but potentially next week we can start out with this very conversation. The topic, that worrisome topic of what contaminants are being pressed into the rosin From the cannabis or from the hash and I think it's definitely a good thing to look into.

3:00:56BubblemanThe more we promote this as a medicine, the more we promote this as a health benefit, the more we should raise the standards to making sure that everyone has a good solid pathway to the information so that they can make or acquire and know What is safe and what is not safe? Awesome to see you guys all in the car. Thanks for coming. I literally have to race off right now in the car with my family as well.

3:01:22BubblemanSo thanks for watching Hash Church, everyone. Sorry that it was such a short one this week, but family calls. Have fun in Chalice, everyone. Thanks for coming in, Tony, Horatio, Casey, and Archive, Fletch. Always a pleasure. We will see you all very soon. Happy Hash Churching.