Emerald Cup Testing and Industry Standards

0:00BubblemanHey everybody, welcome to Hash Church episode 64 on this somewhat rainy British Columbia morning. So I will do the daily rituals of muting that mic and sending out our invitations via email.

0:22BubblemanThose guys invited and I'll invite everyone else through Facebook. And there we are. Wow, another hash church. I think it's going to be a good one today. We've got Jen Doe and Nick Bradley and Jessica and Marcel are going to be coming in from Portland. They're going to be doing, you know, I wish I remembered the name of the place. It sounds like a pretty cool place, a vapor type lounge that they're going to be gathering at to tell us a little bit about the fundraiser that they're having for Harland.

0:55BubblemanAnd who else? Well, Tony's going to be coming in. I believe he was at the Emerald Cup all day yesterday. And he'll be there all day today. I'm not sure if he's going to try and come in this morning and talk to us a little bit about the event and all the different people that he's bumped into and whatnot. I was pretty impressed by the, you know, the level of organization for the Emerald Cup.

1:19BubblemanIf you go check out online at contests.theemeraldcup.com, Thanks for watching.

1:41BubblemanBut if you go check it out, it's pretty cool the way they've tested all of the entries. And basically, if you've got a green little square on the bottom of your picture, then you passed. If you've got an orange one, it's still pending. And if you've got a red one, You failed. So the failures are basically from pesticides and microbials. And I just thought that was a really great organized way.

2:07BubblemanThey've got pictures of all the entries. You can go in. You can look at terpene content and the CBD and the THC. And yeah, I thought it was pretty cool to have pictures and all that organized. How are you doing this morning there, Etienne?

2:21Etienne FontanI'm doing absolutely wonderful. I went yesterday to the Emerald Cup and it was definitely very well organized. Yeah, to see all the testing of everything was incredible. I finally got to meet Cuban and Cuban's partner. They gave me this wonderful stuff with the haze that supposedly aged over a year. Beautiful. I've got to give a shout out to Hashi Larry and to the Devilicious people. And then to Chronic Capital Extracts, and then Beast Coast Bacon.

2:56Etienne FontanOh my God, medicated bacon, people. Shit's off the chain. Everyone's got a lot of great stuff, man.

3:01SpeakerIt's really... Beast Coast. Good morning, guys.

3:07Etienne FontanGood morning, Mark. How are you? Doing good, doing good. There's just so many to see out there. I do want to give a shout out. I want to thank Hawaii. I got to speak in Oahu, so I want to thank the NCAA and MJ Freeway and all the people who came out.

3:23SpeakerDid we record it at all? Can we see that on the internet?

3:27Etienne FontanI don't think so. I think it was just kind of a private gathering thing. It may. I'm not sure. But I do want to also give a shout out to happy birthday to Frenchie Cannoli. Happy birthday, Frenchie. Much love. And besides that, got to see all kinds of people. Rob Clark was there. I think Mel Frank's coming today. I'm not going today. It's just too hella rainy.

3:51Etienne FontanBut there's so many vendors out there, so much good stuff, so much good information.

3:58BubblemanIt's just... Did Rob say something?

4:02Etienne FontanYeah, Rob spoke on a panel. I also saw Dougie from Hitman Glass speaking. There's just a whole slew of great speaking events all throughout the Emerald Cup. So anytime you get a chance to check it out, it is such an educational event because it's a highly educated event. Growers who are out there showing off. But what was interesting as we started off talking about, Mark, was the testing and how, you know, that costs a lot of money to get all those products because they have, as you see, not a small amount of samples because of the outdoor flowers.

4:42Etienne FontanHow many samples were there flower-wise?

4:45Bubbleman477 flowers.

4:47Etienne FontanSo imagine getting that sample kit. Okay, 477 flowers, okay, and then, you know, the cost is anywhere from $100 to $200 a test, so to think about the overhead cost to get all that product in beforehand, test it, and then, you know, get it out there for people to see, pretty amazing, and, you know, quite a feat all in itself, because it was a couple hundred last year, and the amount of people this year at the event was, it took an hour just to get Almost parked into the event.

5:21Etienne FontanAnd I got to say, Emerald Cup has really got to work on their 215 area thing. As soon as you come in, there's a line almost a half mile long of people with their... Just to get their wristband to get into the 215 area took another half hour to 45 minutes. So that's my only bitch where they should do it when you come in the door or something where everyone's organized at one spot.

5:41Etienne FontanBut to then set everybody into a separate line because of how many people... The poor people who were actually doing the doctor's notes were completely overwhelmed. They said there was twice as many as last year. So the majority of your event is going to be people smoking and coming inside and smoking. You've got to have a better organized way to get people who are legal patients with their wristband all the way through.

6:04Etienne FontanIt's not that hard. It's not that difficult. And if that's my only bitch, then that's one hell of an event. So again, congratulations to the Emerald Cup people. I hope they have a great event today, although it's going to be hella rainy and hella muddy, but there's still a lot of great speakers and events and everything. So much love, and I'll get off my little soapbox there.

6:24BubblemanNo worries. That was, yeah, no, thank you for sharing that information from your first point of perspective. You were actually there, so that's nice to see. Did you go down with Todd?

6:36Etienne FontanWe ran into each other. No, my partner and I, we went up together because there's just so many people to see. And I went up there also with a couple of my acquisition specialists to introduce them to people because everybody was like, hey, ATN, how's it going? Here's this. Do you want some of that? Would you carry this there? And so there was a lot of that.

6:56Etienne FontanAnd so it was really awesome to see all the different vendors and all kinds of people coming out and saying hello and And on top of that, I literally got hit with about 50 people coming and saying, hey, I saw you on Hash Church, wanted to say thank you, and I can't say how humbling and thankful it is to see so many people in our world and then who know who I am and I don't know them so much, but coming up and just saying, hey, love Bubble Man, love you guys, appreciate what you're doing, tell Mark Scaldone to put the guitar down and just talk.

7:28Etienne FontanNo. Yeah! Yeah! Really? Put the guitar down?

7:31SpeakerPick up the mandolin?

7:35BubblemanUkuleles, man. It's ukuleles. Yes, a lot of people are talking about the contaminants, of course, the pesticide and the microbials failing. Now, you know, of course, I've heard there's another gentleman repeating Mark's words of how these microbials are everywhere and we live with them and we breathe them and I say... Well, then why did all the entries not have mold on them? And do you want to smoke something that you know has been tested and has failed a microbial or a pesticide?

8:02BubblemanLike, to me, that just seems like a natural no-brainer that...

8:06Etienne FontanWell, you're in an area where you've had cannabis that's able to be tested. The majority of people have never seen cannabis testing, much less had their cannabis tested to know what is in their cannabis to begin with.

8:17SpeakerIt's really a signal-to-noise ratio issue, and if I were to test all the surfaces here in this room, I would find a plethora of all kinds of bacteria, probably some of them pathogenic. They're just all around us. We have to coexist in this world. They were here before us. We'll be here after us. And remember that the plant relies on very crucial bacteria in the soil to fix nitrogen because the plant can't do it itself.

8:45SpeakerAnd so really, I mean, you can't just It's like terpenes. You can't just say that they're all one thing or microbes are all bad or microbes are all good. There's a whole spectrum of them.

8:57BubblemanDo you think they're flawed then, Mark? When something fails a microbial, does that mean that it's natural and it should have had microbes all over it anyway and that it's just awesome?

9:12SpeakerI'm seeking some clarification. What kind of tests were run, and were they just looking for pathogenic stuff like Aspergillus and E. coli, and that's what came up positive?

9:22BubblemanI would guess. They just call it microbials, the one side, and then pesticides on the other. Those are the two ways that you could fail, and all of their announcements are up at... Contests.TheEmeraldCup.com.

9:36SpeakerDr. Yeah. Marcus, I went to that link, and the only thing it shows is that there's like a red little flask that says that it failed.

9:43BubblemanIt doesn't say what it failed for or, Dr. Push the red little flask, and then, yes, it does absolutely tell you. Dr.

9:49SpeakerOkay. I tell you what. I looked on my phone earlier this morning, and I tried it, but it wasn't working. I'll try it on the computer later after church, but, Dr.

9:56BubblemanIf you open up the Dry Sift, You can go to the Emerald Cup, and then you can go to concentrates, and then you can actually browse by subcategory. There were eight entries for concentrated dry sift, and seven have failed. The other one is pending.

10:16SpeakerThis is my supposition based on what I know and what I'm hearing. You've got to remember that microbial spores and fungal spores, they're almost everywhere. They're just part of the air we breathe. It's all around us. The thing is, especially when you package materials in plastic bags, you're really encouraging microbial growth. I don't know if the correct controls are in place to understand what's happening when the product is put into the bag from the point then it gets to the testing lab.

10:52SpeakerI mean, is that like a day or is it a week? Is that under controlled environment or conditions? Are the bags stored under nitrogen? Because certainly if they're stored under ambient conditions and there's a little bit of moisture, especially with water hash, The water in and of itself, again, creates an issue that all bacteria in all life needs water. So if the product is wet, it's just a matter of time before it's going to foul.

11:16SpeakerYou can't almost control it unless you somehow sterilize it. Like Horatio and I, we had talked about using things like peroxide and whatnot and maybe ways of perhaps pre-treating the water that you use in your process. So you know that your water that's going in on the front end of your water hash process is somewhat sterile, so you'll kind of guard against maybe any microbial growth in the medium.

11:46SpeakerI mean, there's all kinds of issues, Mark. I don't even know where to begin. Yeah, dry sift, again, it could be just simply the handling of it. Could it be handling? Could it just be, you know, sloppy technique? I don't know.

12:00Etienne FontanOkay, the loss in all this is how much of that gets destroyed when you ignite it? Okay, because that's a whole different thing.

12:06SpeakerExactly, and again, it's a signal through noise ratio. I mean, you could really test at a certain level for anything and find anything in there. It depends on, you know, is the stuff really been fouled? I mean, can you actually smell it? Is there like degradation products that would say, oh no, that stuff tastes horrible? I mean, I imagine that all that stuff that was entered It was like the creme de la creme.

12:29SpeakerI mean, these are the best products from the best hash makers in the world. There's no way someone's going to submit a foul product to this. We had the same issue with the High Times Coffee in Michigan.

12:41BubblemanA lot of people think Olive Garden is a nice, fancy restaurant, but then you could take those people to a five-star restaurant and they'd be like, wow, I thought the Olive Garden was super nice, and believe it or not, People think that about their herb and their hash the same way. I've met so many of them over the years where they just literally, up until the time that I put hash in their bowl, they believed they knew what full melt hash was, they believed they knew what great quality hash was, but really what they knew was Maybe some half sizzle that was like, you know, not grown to perfection, potentially sprayed with pesticides, like just no control or access to great, great material, maybe not using the best tools, maybe not following all the control variables that you need to follow and ending up with a very, very subpar product.

13:31BubblemanBut thankfully for cognitive dissonance and the human mind, they completely believe what they have is like the best of the best. And I've seen it, I mean, I don't even know, countless times.

13:46Etienne FontanFirst off, Darren, oh, he stepped away because I wanted to hear a bong rip. Got to hear it. But you bring up a very... I'll say it.

13:55BubblemanBong rip. Bong rip. Hey, welcome, D420K and Horatio.

14:01Etienne FontanBut you bring up a very good point is that we are using these testings and we're testing off of other... Industries. We're not dealing with specifically cannabis in the expense of going through the testing by actually burning this product and seeing what we're actually ingesting in the end to see what these microbes are actually being passed along that we're actually going through and actually seeing. Because yes, there is a way once, you know, a hash is closed, etc., etc., but what is lost in the actual ignition?

14:31Etienne FontanWhat is carried through and over? I mean, those are things that Our industry still has to understand science-wise and calibrate. And again, we're going by such as in the city of Berkeley, we had a lab that was trying to push milk standards because that was as close that they could get to an ingestible. So we're still not dealing with real exact science specific to cannabis ingestion in humans as much as we're just going along certain testing parameters Based on what other industries, and that's very helpful, and there's no doubt about it, but I do believe there's some sort of leeway, as you're stating, between what all these hash producers have produced and real science of ingestion once it goes into our body, and there's still a whole bunch of that missing.

15:17Etienne FontanSure, we know what THC is, we know what CBD is, but we still don't know what those are in effect, much less how it's produced.

15:26BubblemanWe definitely know that pesticides are pesticides. So, I mean, a failed pesticide reading is one that I would very much… But because we've all been on weed for years.

15:36SpeakerI mean, I grew up in the 70s smoking weed that got smuggled up from Mexico up to New Jersey. Thank you for watching.

16:02Etienne FontanSo you can just imagine what we were smoking back then, because I know I got respiratory infections and things like that along the way, and that's what always inspired us to go, okay, well, what's really in our cannabis to start testing? So there's still so much, you know, to be said and to be heard. And by the way, I love the Saints head mark.

16:21SpeakerYeah, I'm in a musical state of mind for some reason. I played some music last night, and I figured I'd maybe pick a tune or two today, if that's all right.

16:32BubblemanWhen you posted that photo of you playing with your friend, I was like, I thought it was a video that I made of my friend Jack Cutta in Jamaica with another one of his friends. It was a trippy picture. It looked so much like the avatar of a video that I filmed a couple years ago in Braylorn. Good fun.

16:53SpeakerThat's Dave Bonvillain, none other than Dave Bonvillain from Elite Cannabis, who I'll do a shout out to right now. Hey, Farmer Dave. Growing to Hemp Medicine. In fact, that's the medicine that basically came to Naya's Rescue and so many other Travaze patients. So, hey, how you doing?

17:15BubblemanPositive. Well, I think it's time for a little blowing smoke towards the Vatican here on Hash Church number 64. Looking forward to Jen Doe and Marcel and Nick and Jessica coming in, and we've got Tony coming in here in the near future to I guess tell us what his experience was like. I think he just sat like seven hours straight and turped people out. I'm pretty sure.

17:36Etienne FontanI saw him. He had so many people around him. I literally just said, hey, Tony, from literally about 50 people away. And he's like, hey. And he tried to signal me over, but there was no way I was going to make it over. It was impossible to get through. Everybody was turping beans from hell. So I just let it be because everyone was having such a good time.

17:56Etienne FontanMuch love, Tony. Sorry we weren't able to say hi, but you were way too in it, elbow deep.

18:02BubblemanHarborside was like, we're going to have to get a bigger booth next year, and Tony was just like, you think? Bon rep, guys.

18:11Etienne FontanSorry, go ahead.

18:18BubblemanAll right. This is what you're going to have to do, which I told Jen Doe the other day, and this is very important. You have to get everyone to stop talking and have no background noise. You have to go to a quiet room because you will not be able to broadcast from there with all of that noise in the background. So hopefully you can hear me. I did tell this to Jen Doe the other day because we really want to hear from you guys.

18:47BubblemanThere's no way we're going to be able to listen to that background noise. So try to figure it out. We want to hear from you for sure.

18:56SpeakerMark, I just wanted to jump in on the topic of the mold because I looked over the results and I'm like, wait a minute, only 30% of the bud fails, but then this percent of the bubble hash fails, this percent of the dry shit fails, and then this percent of the rotten failed.

19:12BubblemanSo, like, I'm not saying everybody used bud from... 30% of the bud was about 100% of the hash entries. There were 500 bud entries and there was only 100 concentrate entries. How many replicates are made on a measurement, do you know? Oh, we'd have to ask. You know, it would have been great, actually, if we could have got someone in from SC Labs.

19:37Etienne FontanYeah, that would have been huge because they were the ones who did all the testing because I would love to know how they went through their microbial, whether it was a 72-hour or was it a 24-hour one, or was it done through UVH PLC?

19:50SpeakerThere's different ways to define these types of… There's a standard protocol for determining microbial contamination in cannabis. It's described in the AHP monograph, and certainly there's other methods that are very much alike. The problem is that those methods over the years have gotten extremely sensitive. Again, you're going to find bacteria at very, very low levels that normally you wouldn't probably discern just from their respiration products that would foul the material, that would give it a bad odor or a bad smell or make it seem not right.

20:30BubblemanSorry about that, just having someone ask me to mention more people that won these Canna Awards and I just, so many people won these awards that I just am not even sure it's worth mentioning. No offense to anyone that did win, congratulations, I won a couple times, I just am not. I don't know. I'm really, I almost want to have a conversation about these endless awards and is it a business?

20:57BubblemanIs it a business that is inviting us in, then nominating us for awards, and then giving us awards so we further promote their business on social medias? And it just gives, it leaves a bad fucking taste in my mouth. Please, Todd, I would love to hear about this from you because I can see you smiling and waving your head.

21:18SpeakerCan I get an award first?

21:20BubblemanListen, I have an award for you right here.

21:22SpeakerI got one of those. You know what though, I felt like these things have been a marketing ploy for a long time and as much as I've had respect for High Times, everyone that has been visiting those events from the 94 on have thought it was a clown act behind the scenes. I mean, so it was hard for me to take it seriously. All the people running around with their cannabis cups You know, it's cool from the outside, but I think from the inside, you know, you see the, you know, the back padding and you see the money being spent and the influencing and, you know, to me it's never really been about the product as it's been about who's been a better marketeer in almost any of these events, you know, that That's why, in a sense, the one event that I do really, really like to support is the Secret Cup because the only judges are the competitors.

22:14SpeakerSo everyone has a self-interest in voting on themselves, but in most of the other cases, I hate to say, it's exactly what you described. Hey, let me give you some phony awards so you'll come to my event. Because, I mean... You know, a lot of times the industry won't go to the event if there's nothing in it for them and if adulation is what's in it for them, then they'll show up and they'll get their little award and they'll pretend like they accomplished something when really it is exactly what Mark is saying.

22:40SpeakerIt's a marketing, it's just a marketing arm of a lot of these companies to try to get attention of what they're doing because they have no other way of being inclusive other than, hey, I'll pat you on the back.

22:51BubblemanYou know, one thing I'll mention about the Secret Cup, because I've only been to one personally, the one in Barcelona with you where they just sort of did the awards type of thing, and one of the things that I heard a couple of times at that event which really blew me away, because there was personal interest in these oil and hash makers to vote for themselves, I heard a multitude of people at the Secret Cup say, oh yeah, I had to vote for that one even though it wasn't mine, it was just, it was clearly the best one, and I was like, Holy fuck, what a breath of fresh air to hear someone say something like that.

23:22BubblemanIt just was, blew me away.

23:25SpeakerI agree, and you know, not only that, I think that that particular contest has cleaned up the concentrates industry when it comes to, you know, polar solvents because, you know, I saw your posting on Facebook last night about how you were sad so many, we had so many failed both flowers, you know, hash and dry seeds. And I think a lot of people don't realize how easy the mold sticks with their product.

23:52SpeakerAnd if it isn't for people reflecting on the product they're making, you're not going to see product development. And when these guys dropped the residual test, I thought it was the end of the secret cup, to be honest. Instead, it was the beginning of cleaner meds, if you will. And in some ways, I hope that The people that got failed tests in the Emerald Cup don't see it as discouraging, but see it as reasons to get cleaner and innovate better, understand their process more, and put out a better product.

24:22SpeakerBecause the products up there were, everything that people showed me was amazing, but when you start getting into it on a micro level, you may get surprised at what you find. I'm not as surprised as a lot of people, but I'm disappointed at the same time too. I'm sure they are too. No one wants to turn in a contaminated product. I'm sure in my heart. No one sets out to make something that people are going to reject, but we have to be more cautious as the producers of these hashes and cannabis and everything.

24:54SpeakerWhat we're putting out really is what we intend to put out, which is a good, clean product.

24:58Etienne FontanBut what, you know, who's judging what? And one of the things, the great thing about the Secret Cup is if you enter, you're actually a voter. And things like you don't know who actually votes for you at high times and at some of these other events. It's a guess of who they go out to and it's, you don't know. You don't know who's the actual judge. I heard people Talking over at the cup saying, oh, we should do a sample thing next year and then tell all the samples to people for a high amount of money because it's all top product stuff.

25:30Etienne FontanSo there's all kinds of mentalities that the The public have because they don't have a clear understanding of who's actually judging. Who's judging what? What are the criterias? And I think that the Secret Cup has shown people the way at least because we always felt going back to the original High Times Cannabis Cup that it was people bought the cup from the beginning. Who was giving out the most amount of free stuff and then they stopped that.

25:58Etienne FontanYou couldn't give out free stuff anymore because they've had to change these contests along the way because People have cheated. They have basically bought people off. They have flooded them with, you know, give me this and I'll give you that sort of mentality. So, you know, who's the true judge? What's the true judge? And so I've got to give it again to the supermodel. He's showing a way and giving, and there's one of the men himself, for showing a way that is real, that these real concentrate people who have tried and know what they're doing and they're judging them.

26:32Etienne FontanThank you for watching.

26:54SpeakerJeremy is with Dan. Dan and Jeremy at the Secret Cup. You met Jeremy with us in Barcelona, Mark.

27:00BubblemanAbsolutely, yes, I recognize him.

27:02SpeakerYeah, I think he's working his way on getting on.

27:07BubblemanYeah, I mean, I like the idea of something that's being judged by the people that have entered as well, and I like the idea very much so of not promoting yourself for votes, like these type of things where it's like, oh, go now and vote for me on this page. It's like, well, I have 70,000 Instagram followers. Is it really fair for me to promote a contest or a thing that I'm in that, oh, if you put this little link and tell people to vote for you, Well, how the fuck is that fair if I have access to more people to tell than the other people that are in that same sort of thing?

27:42BubblemanWhat reality is that based on other than popularity?

27:47SpeakerHey, let's ask Jeremy a couple questions if you don't mind. You know, Jeremy, can you hear us, Jeremy? Yeah, I can hear you. Thanks for joining us. You know, what got you guys to do the method of... Of judging that you do with the Secret Cup, because it is obviously so unique that only the judges are the, only the contestants are the judges. Right, well there's like, there's actually three ways you can vote in the Secret Cup.

28:12SpeakerSo there's the overall competition, that's what you're referring to, where all of the judges are the competitors, and we eliminate their votes for themselves, and we monitor their voting to make sure they're being on the up and up. And we've had cases where people were not entirely authentic with their votes, both good and bad. So sometimes people will vote people higher that they like, but also people will vote people lower because they don't like them.

28:48SpeakerAnd so we try and watch out for anything that's obviously unfair. The way that the voting structure is made It's really difficult to score high on everything or to score low on everything unless you really put in something bad. So we can kind of tell a lot of times when anything is amiss in that sense, and we try to keep it as fair as possible. We just talk to the people, and for the most part, they just admit that they have been not genuine with their voting, and they change their votes.

29:23SpeakerWe don't have to have a problem.

29:27SpeakerThe other way you can win the Secret Cup, we have also analytical results. So there's the highest THC, highest CBD, highest Terps. So you don't have to play the game with the votes through the people. You can just try to score analytically high and win that way. Hey, Jeremy, can I ask a question on the testing? Yeah, sure. Yeah, okay. So when you guys take a sample like that, I mean, There's obviously the issue about contamination of any sample that's tested.

29:59SpeakerThe handling of those samples have to be handled in really a very, very unique way in that you have to guarantee that there is no contamination at the source. And when you see multiple things come up like this particular case, you start to question whether the source of contamination is actually the testing lab itself. So, have you ever seen, like, a bunch of results come back from, like, one single lab that makes you question, like, man, it seems like it's just so unlikely that so many would come up positive.

30:39SpeakerWe have seen strange things happen in the testing, and we've had to do retests, and we've had to do tests with other labs to kind of clarify things that happen. The thing... Did I generally take away from the test? And so when we get our samples for testing, we don't touch them. They stay sealed the way they came from the contestant, and then we just provide them to the lab that way.

31:04SpeakerIn a plastic bag? We never have to deal with the sample. But are they in a plastic bag or are they in a vial? What kind of container are they in? So the way that we do it right now is we have glass jars with screw top lids and then they're also in parchment inside of those. And certain other things might just be in the jar because it's liquidy.

31:29SpeakerBut other things... If they give it to us in a container that they want specifically to go to the testing lab, that's also okay. The only ones that have to be uniform are the ones that go to the judges. So when we get the gram samples that go to the lab, they can actually be in any container that the person provides to us, and usually we just forward it on in whatever that is.

31:56SpeakerThe labs vary from lab to lab, and the tests vary. I even see certain labs not able to reproduce the same results on tests.

32:08Etienne FontanHow many different labs do you guys use, Jeremy, out of curiosity?

32:11SpeakerProbably five to seven different labs all over the United States. And any one given lab, how many replicates do they make on a single measurement? That you would have to discuss with the lab because it varies. The larger sample size they get, the more they're able to do. And so we're limited sometimes with the amount of... And it costs. I mean, each one of those measurements costs.

32:38SpeakerSo if you're going to do a replicate of five or a replicate of ten, that all adds to the bottom line of testing many samples at one time. That's absolutely true. And no cannabis laboratory on the face of the earth is able to handle that many samples at one particular time, right? Well, they make a big issue of this when we go to do it because a lot of times we're doing it in trade.

33:03SpeakerSo they're getting sponsorship and the booth and, you know, things from us in exchange for doing the testing. And so they're very explicit about how much it costs and how it holds up their business. And, you know, if we have 40 samples, it takes them this amount of time to do that many and to do it properly. And, uh, There's certain ones that definitely require less to produce their results than others, and I don't know if that means that it's a less accurate result.

33:37SpeakerIt seems like that might be the case. Have you ever used the same sample set at two different labs and gotten two different results from the same samples? I mean, so one lab says it's positive and the other lab says it's negative. Well, not that drastic. The differences that we mostly see are in percentages of things like Uh, certain terpenes and certain, uh, you know, THC even.

34:04SpeakerAnd, uh, I, I, I don't think I could tell you one where they've reproduced it twice rather than any one instance where it's been, um, just a notable one. I've never seen a lab reproduce the same results off testing. The same samples or another lab, test the same samples as another lab and get the same results. God, that's troubling to me. I mean that's extremely troubling because that's not where the state of the art is in analytical science today.

34:35SpeakerAnd it's because government and our stupid laws have corrupted this part of the industry and it's horrible. The capabilities are horrible. You know, Mark, you know, the thing is, though, is a lot of these testing facilities are also acting in a way as activist organizations because what they're doing is essentially federally illegal as well. So they're taking a risk by doing these tests, and they're unable to get together and really We get a standard, if I understand it right, that they can all go off of.

35:14SpeakerThey all say, okay, this will be yellow and we'll all go from yellow because if they get together and they start making plans like that, In a sense, it's the same thing as, you know, as long as the federal government sees us as crime, when we start organizing, all these labs, I think, could get in trouble as organized crime if they start trying to get together and put it all together exactly.

35:35SpeakerAnd I think that's what we're dealing with right now. So you've got activist labs in Colorado and California and other places popping up. They're doing their best, but they're not standardized yet. You know, ATN, am I close?

35:50SpeakerI mean, to...

35:55Etienne FontanRepeat your question.

35:57SpeakerBasically what I said is that these laboratories are activist-based groups. And because what they're doing is essentially illegal, they're not all getting together in a room and saying, hey, everybody, let's agree that this is yellow and this is black. Because when the tests come back, they come back yellow and black every time exact. Exactly.

36:17Etienne FontanWe do that. We have, because we work with different laboratories, you have to do what's called satellite testing. So you get something that's centralized testing and it should be this number. And you send it out to these laboratories and it should come back this, that way or the other. And it doesn't come back right all the time.

36:32SpeakerAgain, what I'm saying though is this is only, we've only had testing for not that long in California. Less than a decade. And it's taken a minute for these other labs to get online and communicate with one another. It didn't all start off like a legal, hey everybody, let's have a meeting and talk about the standardization because we're all going to go and break the law collectively now.

36:52SpeakerIt didn't happen that way. It happened with people that wanted to do pot clubs and stuff like that so that they wouldn't have mold and other things in their shit. I mean, you know, and now that we are not getting busted for testing our stuff, we're starting to see more and more of these testing companies pop their heads up.

37:09Etienne FontanFor sure. Well, and that's why also the scientific community is coming out with a standardization that they're going to come out across the board because there isn't a standard across the board until we went...

37:19SpeakerWait, wait, wait. There is a standard.

37:22Etienne FontanWe had to go find them and bring them. The problem is that not everybody has the same testing solution as going out to the same laboratories and everybody... Some labs are saying they have their own proprietary way of testing, and that's not just how science is done. So that's why we brought Arno, who made the testing solution for the UVH PLC, so we knew, he knew what he was doing, and we brought him originally here, and we started calibrating labs here in the Bay Area.

37:52Etienne FontanBecause yes, it was all activism, because we couldn't go to the DEA and say, hey, can you give us the gas chromatograph specs for You know, THC, CBD, the whole thing of cannabis. No, they would have laughed us right in the face. So this is the reality of people and the frustration of having to reinvent the wheel. We're still, we don't have a full wheel yet. And all the laboratories don't have the full spectrum to test, much less CBD, the whole spectrum of, we still don't have the full spectrum of pesticides that's available on the market yet.

38:26Etienne FontanWe're still adding those with each concessive test It's an ongoing science, as Mark would say, because we're still learning. And the thing that was encouraged is that a couple weeks ago I did hear that the science community is going to come up with a standardization So that we will have something to say because as Jeremy was saying, the frustration is one lab will say this, another lab will say that.

38:55Etienne FontanAnd that's still a frustration. So where was it wrong? Was it wrong in their calibration? And where did it go off the rails? And that's science's question. That's one of the things that I've learned being a pioneer in the testing here in America is it's fucking expensive, people. It costs hundreds of dollars per test. And when you do tens of thousands of tests, I mean, it's a learning process, and we're still learning, but we're not there yet.

39:23Etienne FontanI think, Mark, you can agree with me, Mr. Scaldo, that we're not there yet. We're getting there. We know more than we did yesterday, but we don't know everything that we need to know to say you to the consumer right now, this is 100% great, okay? We're not there yet.

39:39SpeakerAre you guys ready for my part now? Okay. Here's what I got to say on this, and I got a whole lot to say.

39:49SpeakerOkay, so look man, I mean when it comes down to it, the schedule one and the whole inconsistency with laws between the federal government and the states that have legalized has made it very, very difficult for basically standardization of these kinds of testing methods. And you know at the end of the day, what I'm telling you is the capability in science is way beyond the current standard of what's being practiced in the industry.

40:17SpeakerWhich frustrates me because I live in the regular land of science and you know I'm looking at this saying oh my god this is just completely unacceptable and to me I look at it from two points of view there's certainly the product safety You know, the consumer who's, you're coming in contact with, you're pulling this stuff into your lungs, I mean, there's a whole lot of liability that is involved, not in the producing, but also in the testing to making sure that when you say that something is contaminated and that something is, has to be thrown away or taken off shelves, that you, your lab better be absolutely, you know, nuts and bolts sure that that stuff is testing positive for a pesticide or some kind of microbial contamination.

41:03SpeakerThe closer you look at anything, I'm telling you, you could find just about anything in anything. So the sophistication in some of these laboratory methods have gotten to where you could basically find anything. I'll just give you a frank example. One of these machines that we've been working with There's never been any of this material in the lab, but you could bring any dollar bill out of anyone's pocket up to this machine, and it's got a sensitive sniffer enough that it finds a cocaine peak on any currency of any U.S. bill in anyone's pocket, no matter who it was.

41:38SpeakerSo the levels of detection at the part per billion, even femto mole, which is the next Thank you for joining us.

42:09SpeakerIs that it? Is that the end of the testing process? That number then goes into a spreadsheet which then goes off to the customer? I mean, what if you did that measurement three more times or five more times or ten more times? What is the precision and the accuracy of these measurements? Okay, so that's one question. The other question is, you know, again, the handling of these samples and how they're handled from the producer where it's being produced To where it's actually being tested, there's a whole lot of opportunity for contamination if you're talking about microbial stuff or even heavy metal.

42:45SpeakerAny other foreign body contamination, as soon as that stuff is submitted, if it's not handled in the exact appropriate way, from what I understand in the High Times Cup this summer in Michigan, they had a bunch of failures, but what they understood was that All the samples were going to be handled in a particular way, and they were not. They were handled in a way that I guess they were left in an air-conditioned shipping facility.

43:13SpeakerThey were left in a way that was inappropriate, where now they all started molding. And everyone wondered why all the samples came up moldy. Well, holy shit, they were stored in a way that encourages mold. There's background moisture in the plant. It's biological. You put it in a plastic bag or a sealed container, you've got to get mold. You know, in the situation with the Emerald Cup, that's not the case.

43:37SpeakerAnd you know what? We wouldn't have expected people to be able to contaminate hashish. It's not as prone to atmosphere as bloods, if I'm wrong. You know what I mean? If you give buzz to someone and they put them in a bag wrong, they can make a mold pretty easily. But usually dry seed hash, no, it's already dry. I mean, go ahead, you know, Mark, what do you think?

43:58SpeakerIt's a lot harder to mold hash than it is to mold weed, right?

44:01BubblemanWell, I mean, other than water hash, which is obviously people don't know how to get the water out, it makes sense that it's… Okay, now wait a second.

44:07SpeakerNot all microbes are created equal. So is the dry sift failing for microbial contamination? And if so, what microbe? What is the microbe that it's failing for, Horatio? Do you know? The dry sift. It doesn't say. I'm mainly looking at the percentage of failures because I look at it and I'm like, okay, well, if I have to dry my weed in Oregon and California... Basically, it's like how did you dry your weed to make your dry sift is more prone to mold if it's going to be exposed hanging upside down for three weeks.

44:42SpeakerI assume they're testing for things like aspergillus, which is your garden variety mold, that's your shower mold that you'd find in the shower underneath your bathroom mat in most cases. They're probably also testing for the less harmful of the E. coli, which is the more common E. coli. Shit, that's what they're testing for. If you don't wipe your fucking hands and Thank you for joining us.

45:26SpeakerThe question is how robust are those test results because now people's hashes are getting disqualified. Based on these results, I hope these labs are really certain about these results. That's the point.

45:39BubblemanI mean, you generally have a lot of confidence in science, though, Mark, so why wouldn't these labs, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of people working at these labs, much like you, who are scientists and they've studied and they've gone to university.

45:50SpeakerYeah, yeah, there are. There are a lot of very, really bright people out there. I don't want to throw stones. Can I throw something out there, though? Something that Todd had said. Hold on, Todd. I want to say something. There is a standard method. There is a standard method. The American Herbal Pharmacopeia has got a monograph that's got an HPLC method. Arno and others have worked on it.

46:12SpeakerAnd there are other sophisticated methods for measuring THC content and measuring microbial and heavy metal contaminants. So there are standard methods. It's just that the labs... What I'm saying is, Mark, don't confuse... Cannabinoid inconsistencies with finding actual shit or mold in a sample, because while one scientist and another scientist could come up with slightly different amounts of cannabinoids or THC, shit, shit, they're going to find mold in their products, if that makes sense.

46:48SpeakerYou know what I mean? Mold's going to be mold. It's not going to be... You get the difference, right? The difference between finding different levels of cannabinoids and finding actual mobile. Dr. Yeah, and I think what we're talking about is samples failing out for microbial contamination, right, Mark, like with the dry sift case? That's what we're talking about, right? Again, there are standard protocols for measuring microbial contamination in things that humans consume, period.

47:19SpeakerThat's not an issue. It's the levels of cannabinoids being inconsistent is a different conversation from levels of mold in our product. Yes, it's easy. But they're failing for that. They're not failing for cannabinoids. Wait a second. I agree with you, but when you're saying about inconsistent cannabinoids when we're talking about mold, it's a different conversation, unless I'm wrong. Basically, it sounds like testing for mold is more accurate because there's more information to adopt than testing for cannabinoids.

47:48SpeakerBut Mark Scaldone, if you look over the different methods to produce the product, I looked and I'm like, hmm, rosin has a lower fail rate, but it still has a fail rate and that's all heat pressed. And it was weird that Bubble Hash had a higher success rate than Dry Sift. And because they're samples with a success rate, it means there is a cutoff line of pass-fail.

48:12SpeakerSo we're not really attacking the labs for basically busting someone's business. It looks like basically whatever the labs are getting and however they're getting it is no different than the consumer. So that's really the concern is if it's that prone to self-destruct, Thank you for joining us.

48:50SpeakerThey're there. No, when I look at it, it's the people who pass, and then you hear about what their standards are like in their grow room, and in their trimming, and in every step we dip with alcohol before we change plants. It's the little standards of any factory production line that seem to be why certain people succeed and also potentially represent the future of the survivors to the cannabis industry.

49:16SpeakerSo that's kind of why I'm like, look, the mold just sounds like the way we operate is prone to any food safety standard recall. Let me ask a question to the water guys. Have you guys ever seen mold growth on like wet bags? Like if you leave wet bags around, do they tend to foul? Do you tend to get mold growth on wet bags? No? Bubble Man, that's all you.

49:44SpeakerYeah, I mean, there are... Oh, sorry.

49:49BubblemanI'm in the middle of defending myself because apparently I made the joke that wearing a lab coat makes you a chemist. If you just wear a lab coat and test products, I'm sure that will be accurate. And people thought I was throwing John B. under the bus when really I see people wearing lab coats all the time in this industry in dispensaries. Thank you for watching.

50:31SpeakerSimply put. I asked my daughter for a white dinner suit to wear in the lab instead of a lab coat just for that reason. I said basically lab coats were out and they were downing the scientific standards, so I wanted a white dinner coat. Yeah, Timothy Leary tie-dyed his, so have at it, man. There you go.

50:48BubblemanI mean, look, Mark's got the chemistry knowledge every day and not once has he fucking come in wearing a lab coat.

50:54SpeakerWhat am I wearing here? Wilson, right?

50:57BubblemanWilson with a little... A little finger.

51:01SpeakerThat's Trey flipping the bird, man. And that's schmocking.

51:04Etienne FontanAnd I, myself, I've had to learn the chemistry and actually teach labs how to actually do the testing, and I don't claim to be a chemist.

51:11SpeakerI got good news. I got good news. Hold on. I got a picture of 18 in a lab coat. Hold on. We can goof. Don't lie, 18.

51:19Etienne FontanOh, no, no, no. I'm not kidding because I went to the Netherlands when I went through the entire system that I, Thank you for watching.

51:53SpeakerI could put a lab coat on. Hey, don't forget that we're having fun here, having conversation, everybody. We're on a path of discovery, and we're trying to learn ways of doing what we do better. And the bubble bags I used to use, when I would leave them on the side, did not get moldy. They would just dry up, and the stuff would fleck off, in my experience with all my bubble bags.

52:15SpeakerYeah, and so I think mold has to really do with how the sample is handled after it's packaged. Now, I think that mold can happen when you're growing in your environment and you're curing and you're processing and, you know, poor storage for sure, but there's so many elements for mold to creep into the process to be honest. But do you think that like when you look at like Cubans or some of this really nice hash, I mean the pictures of it look beautiful, it just doesn't look like something that should test positive for mold just visually, and it makes me question the result.

52:51SpeakerSorry. The Cuban task doesn't test positive. It doesn't test positive. It's a micro thing. Unfortunately, I've seen enough weed hang and look at the floor 18 inches under it, and I'm like, if somebody sweeps, those top colors are fucked. And, uh-oh, here comes somebody sweeping. It's a human bad habit, and we don't have production standards that would put a tomato on the shelf, so it's going to happen.

53:20SpeakerEven if the weed is perfect, it can just be the hang.

53:24Etienne FontanThat's why I know certain companies, they actually put the cannabis in a room and then close the room and never go in that room until harvest. They set it up that way because they're trying to limit as much contaminant, and they're actually They do the cannabis for the Dutch government. So that's how they avoid that type of situation by not actually physically going in there once the plants are put in there.

53:50Etienne FontanAnd I know that's hard for a lot of people to think of, and it blew my mind initially when I thought about it. But again, they're still irradiating that cannabis. That's the Dutch cannabis. That's not how it's done here in America. So even that Dutch cannabis, if it were not irradiated, would not pass the American testing currently.

54:08SpeakerYeah, I know that that's done with certain fruits and vegetables too. I mean, I don't know if that's practical, again, for using it for all preparations of cannabis, but certainly that is a way to certainly disinfect things without introducing like a liquid or anything like that.

54:28Etienne FontanWell, it's a thing that we've learned that even the best grown cannabis, even in sealed rooms, still has molds and microbials and things that All of these are deemed above those human limits. So yes, as stated, that's why we went to the Netherlands and we got those experts and brought them over to do the testing because they were actually doing the testing on the Dutch cannabis as well as working with the grower from beginning to end.

54:53Etienne FontanAnd that's one of the great things about Jeremy and what you guys are doing is that you're so direct with the contestants themselves that you Well, it's an odd thing to look at it that way as teaching because

55:31SpeakerI don't feel like I have the knowledge, but I am the bearer of good and bad news, like you said. So I'm also the student. I'm learning as we go also, just like everyone else. And I have a background in some other stuff where we used to test steel and we used to test other things. For all kinds of analytical results. So I know that there is ways to go before our testing is as precise or maybe as encompassing as all the other testing that is available out there.

56:12SpeakerBut I see great growth happening as we're adding things or figuring things out too. What I like about our testing is that when we test as a group, The comparison between the results is what I find the most interesting because I don't necessarily think the numbers are extremely precise. I know there's probably some margin of error for all the numbers that we're dealing with. But when you can look at them against one another, you can see like, oh, wow, that's a dramatic variance in this one to this one.

56:51SpeakerThis one has so much CBD, and these ones all seem to test low. So there's certain things like that that stand out and that's really good. And then, of course, the testing for the residual solvents and things like that. I was listening to you guys talk about the way that stuff looks. And if you can tell, my experience has been almost without exception that if it looks good, then that doesn't tell you anything.

57:21SpeakerAnd if it looks bad, that equally does not tell you anything. So many times the ones that look like they are going to be for sure red flags test not only good, but sometimes the cleanest out of them all. So the testing is really, really hard to predict, and I think it's important to But I don't take the tests too, too seriously except for things like mold and the residuals and stuff like that.

57:55SpeakerBomb rip. Bomb rip.

57:59Etienne FontanBomb rip indeed, sir. You seem so down, Darren. You all right, buddy?

58:05SpeakerWell, I am all right, but I do want to actually... Give a shout out to my bro, Andrew Peters, who passed on yesterday or the day before. Took a sudden turn, and all of a sudden he had cancer all over his body, and he went for chemotherapy treatment, and it went into his brain, and he went for a turn for the worse and died within 10 hours.

58:30SpeakerIt was horrible. I gave him a big hug and told him I loved him, and shout out to his family, and Andrew, man, this bong rips for you, and I've been burning for you for the last two days, brother.

58:40BubblemanRIP to Andrew, one of the original head bangers.

58:45SpeakerFucking rights, man. We were in a street gang together when we were kids. I was 12 years old, and in the first street gang I was ever involved in, it was called the head bangers when we were kids. We hung around a fucking mall and scrapped other guys. That's all we did. Got high and fought. Fucking stupid, but fun. Good man, good father, good grandfather, good husband.

59:07SpeakerGood man.

59:08BubblemanRest in peace. RIP, Andrew. I didn't know you very well. I met you through Darren. We spoke a few times, but this bong's for you.

59:18Etienne FontanApe is condolences.

59:23SpeakerYou know me well, Etienne. You can just see it, eh? It's kind of hard to hide the sad when that sort of thing happens, right?

59:35Etienne FontanThat's the thing that people forget is that being around medical campuses, we're around death all the time, and people are dying all the time. So always tell people you love them, and as I tell people, you never know if it's going to be somebody's first day or it's their last day, so please treat them with the love and respect that you wish to see accordingly. Yeah, I can see the pain because I know that pain.

59:58Etienne FontanI can see the hurt because I know that hurt because We've lost so many people. I've lost so many employees, so many good people. The guy who helped Donald Tolbert, he helped us sue Diebold when we lost. We sued Diebold and won. And he passed away due to cancer last year. Terrible. So many people have died. I see the ghosts of them all the time in crowds.

1:00:26Etienne FontanI literally see their face and I almost... I just want to say, hey, it's just so many people who have come and gone along the way, so the soul sees pain and sees suffering, and, you know, appreciate your love in your life and definitely share it, and I can appreciate the sorrow, and I wish I didn't, but much respect and much love.

1:00:50BubblemanAbsolutely. Just going on about LPs in the chat room here. Freddie is... Mentioning how all the LPs are a rip-off and they all grow garbage weed and I was like, I have to disagree with that. I've been to some of these LPs and I haven't seen by any means all of them so I wouldn't make a generalized statement like Freddie just made that says all LPs have garbage weed.

1:01:12BubblemanI wouldn't say that all LPs have amazing weed but when I go and photograph the weed and it looks just as nice as the stuff that I photographed at Remo's or any of these other places and then I see the bud at a friend's house and we literally crush it up and Sifted and make full melt sift. I just have to wonder like what are you looking for in your bud?

1:01:32BubblemanLike if that's not what you're looking for, if you still think that that's garbage, what, I see this huge division by cannabis activists and corporate cannabis producers and I just wish we could stop promoting that indifference. Like it would be so nice if we somehow were able to work together rather than, you know, To continue on the division that prohibition basically slapped us with for the last 40, 50, 60 years, It'd be nice to not get cast back into that sort of same division, this time through legal aspects, not basically prohibition, but the division of, oh, that's a corporation.

1:02:14BubblemanIt's like a corporation. My company's a corporation.

1:02:18Etienne FontanRight now, they're trying to say industry, and it's like, wait a second. What cannabis industry? We're a bunch of small businesses. We're all cottage industry businesses right now. We're not some huge conglomerate. Just that way and the other. And so I completely agree with you in that frustration.

1:02:35BubblemanYeah. And then someone's asking me if I shop at Walmart. It's like, no, I don't shop at Walmart personally. And I don't necessarily equate an LP to Walmart. I mean, Walmart is basically destroying the planet and selling absolute and total schwag products for For high dollar value, and it's actually detrimental to the planet. I'm not sure how an LP in eastern Ontario producing cannabis that's being sold via the mail, I'm not sure how they're destroying the planet like Walmart.

1:03:06BubblemanI'm not sure how that comparison is made personally, but I guess people are always going to hate. Yeah, I mean that's why people hate corporations is what Smash just said. But I think they hate the word corporation. They don't really understand that there are corporations that are not evil. You start a corporation generally to avoid liabilities of personal self. You want to protect your company and your business and you don't want people to come after you personally.

1:03:39BubblemanIf there's issues, you want your company to be able to defend itself. But I don't know. I guess I'm one of the weird people that just sees that dispensaries don't produce enough awesome medicine and LPs don't produce enough awesome medicine. So I see that both of them aren't fulfilling the obligation of at least my country. So how can we get rid of either one of them? Yeah.

1:04:01SpeakerFucking bring them on. Honestly, I wish that they were flooding the market with With cannabis, it costs pennies a gram so that every single person could get the benefits of having cannabis in their life and not have to break the law, grow it, be brave, or fucking be dying to get it. So you know what? I say I would actually go the opposite way. I support overproduction of cannabis because if you don't like it, don't smoke it.

1:04:29SpeakerBut if somebody comes out and puts out literally pennies on the pound, bud, And everyone that's drinking booze and popping pills and smoking cigarettes can flip script if they so want to with some good, cheap, quality cannabis. Fucking A, the world's going to be a better place. So I don't know what people are afraid of, in my opinion. Bring it on.

1:04:50Etienne FontanWhen people pipe up like that and say, oh, they're afraid of corporations and this, that way, I'm like, well, do better. Go out there, produce, show us how it should be done. Put your mouth where your fucking and your ass and your wallet are and actually put it and get it done.

1:05:09SpeakerHash Church is being broadcasted because the Google Corporation lets us.

1:05:17BubblemanYeah, exactly. There you go. It's like another giant, massive, evil corporation that we're all... Hey, don't diss my iPhone, Mark. Don't diss my iPhone, dude. I need my Chinese iPhone, Mark.

1:05:26Etienne FontanDon't be like that, okay? God, I can't believe you started talking about China.

1:05:47BubblemanJust kidding. Oh, fuck. You know, I think that the bottom line is that we're not here to blow smoke up people's asses. We're here to stir the pot and create dialogue. And that when we disagree with one another and when we get into the roots of these intense conversations, it's okay to disagree and it's okay to have different opinions. And it doesn't mean that the people in chat have to choose sides.

1:06:10BubblemanThey can just agree or disagree. This is what I want more of with Past Church.

1:06:17SpeakerTodd, I just wanted to go back to a point. You mentioned that whole, like, what about the rates to the bottom? It'll be cheaper for everyone. And normally I'm like, oh God, no, not Budweiser weed. Then I'm like, then you went into the point about if anyone could get exposed to any form of cannabinoid in any way that could shift their program out of the loop of, I pick a drug, I pick a food, I pick a stimulus.

1:06:41SpeakerI'm like, okay, you win even Mexican swag weed. Thanks for watching.

1:07:04SpeakerYou know, the funny thing about it is this. We eat food from all over the world, so I'm not afraid of Mexican avocados, bro. So to speak in a derogatory way based on prohibition shit like, oh, I don't want no Mexican brickweed, yeah, no one does. But the truth is Mexico makes some fine agricultural products, and they have a better geographical place to do it than, you know, people up in, you know, Washington State, for instance, if you're talking about growing good pot outside.

1:07:33SpeakerSo the truth is that I think I'm not afraid of Mexican cannabis being on the shelf next to my Chinese iPhone. You know, right now I can't go out and buy an American made iPhone. It doesn't exist. It's American engineered, sure, but who gives a shit? We're all earthlings at the end of the day and we're all using each other's stuff and people in China are wearing Levi's and I'm not mad at them.

1:07:57SpeakerI'm not even a little bit upset. So I think that once we see legalization, we'll see an economy shift, and we will see cannabis from Mexico, cannabis from Jamaica, cannabis from Maui, and it will be a different vibe. And I hope that no matter where people are, Mexico, China, wherever, the consumer will be wise enough to know what they're looking at. You know, it's the same thing now.

1:08:19SpeakerYou can go out and get a fancy lighter that's made by a real company, or you can go find the knockoff Chinese version of For five bucks, you've got to know the difference at the end of the day. Same with a Rolex watch, or it'll be the same way with Good Bud. It'll be the buyer beware. You have to know what you're buying. But I don't necessarily think that if it came from Mexico, it's necessarily a bad thing.

1:08:39SpeakerI could agree with that. Maybe if they didn't have to press it, it would actually come out okay. If you take away prohibition, they might not use the trash compactor. It's also going to make them have to grow good weed all over the world. Otherwise, they're not going to be able to sell their penny on the dollar dope even. It has to be some level of quality, and if everybody's allowed to do it, well, they're going to do it right.

1:09:03SpeakerInstead of just the black market and brick doping out and everything, they're going to have to do it right or they're not going to move it, period. Dude, bring on cheap weed. I keep saying it. Bring it on, dude. There's so many people that can't afford to do what we're sitting here, the people in chat are sitting here, that what we're doing, you know, they can't afford expensive fucking bongs or rolling big-ass joints.

1:09:22SpeakerAnd you know what? I feel for them. They deserve to have cannabis in their life as much as we do because, what, we had a little gene of bravery in us? That's fucked up. Everyone should be able to get the benefits of cannabis, not just the ones that can physically afford it right now. And I honestly believe in my heart and soul that this world would be a better place if cannabis was like in every convenience store just the same way alcohol and tobacco is.

1:09:45SpeakerAnd I really can't wait for the day that cannabis is competing with these asshole shitty brands that are hurting us because people are dying from tobacco poisoning. And it's not going to go down. Well, we're up to that.

1:10:06SpeakerI guess since no one's talking, I guess I was going to ask, so basically the general feeling is no matter how shitty you make the weed, the cannabinoids are fighting for you even at the lowest level. I look at it and I'm like, well, would the weed contaminated with mold be better than a pharmaceutical contaminated with some toxin? I guess that goes back to that nobody's died from cannabis no matter how contaminated with negative material it's been.

1:10:36SpeakerLike, I don't want to see big tobacco turn weed back into something that everyone's like, oh, weed, it's natural, it's good. And then it goes back to killing them because it's radioactive. But there's got to be an in-between because cannabinoids are not like other plants. We put a piece in the Emperor Wears No Clothes about radioactive tobacco and tobacco having a half-life because it wasn't so much the fault of tobacco, but the heavy metals and the fertilizers they were using when they produced it because it got a boost and it helped with bugs.

1:11:05SpeakerYou know, we're going to have to be sound safe practices that go into cannabis. What cannabis has, in my opinion, over tobacco is that tobacco is more climate ties, where cannabis can be in my closet or in Mark's closet or, you know, all over the world, and it can be procured much easier. You know, I don't know anyone that grows their own tobacco that smokes tobacco, anyone.

1:11:27SpeakerYou know, and it's even harder to micro-brew beer than it is to grow some flowers in your closet. I mean, you know, so I believe I think that once you allow people to do it, more people who now don't have to fear jail will grow some weed. I really think the price of weed is going to tumble, and I mean tumble hardcore. It's literally, guys, dollars a pound, because it doesn't cost that much to grow.

1:11:54SpeakerThis is one of the factors that I don't like about the law. Our dear friend Fuck Mickey, he wrote a great expose on the new Sean Parker initiative, and I have to say I agreed with him on so many points. One of the points being is that, you know, the market, the people writing this don't want us to be able to break the market by selling it for less than it costs to produce.

1:12:18SpeakerAnd that's a real fucked up thing because I don't believe that there should be a situation where if you do an art painting and you want to sell it for less than it cost you to do the painting, you should not be allowed to. It's your possession. It's your creation. And this is some of the things that are being written into these new laws. You know, and in my opinion, people are like, well, why are you going to speak out against the Sean Parker initiative when you were supportive of Ohio?

1:12:42SpeakerAnd the difference is this. Once it hits the ballot and we have the opportunity to legalize weed, I'm all for it. I am fucking voting for it. I'm not going to vote in and vote no. But leading up to getting on the ballot, yo, bitch and moan all you want. Talk about these points. Bring up the issues and discuss them because that's the only way we're going to get to sound legalization in my opinion.

1:13:03SpeakerYou know, but now's the time to bring up your concerns, your objections, and your edits, if you will, to the law, not after it hits the ballot, in my opinion. Once it hits the ballot, it's about getting people out of jail, and it's about not locking more people up, in my opinion. Anyone else?

1:13:25BubblemanI'm just watching and reading the chat as it's going by. Everyone's kind of on point, talking about tobacco and cannabis and I mean, I agree with you, Todd. It's a race to the bottom. I come from Manitoba, an agricultural province. We grow wheat, and we grow grains and flax, and that's where hemp was, you know, one of the first places in Canada we started growing it was in Ontario and Manitoba, where we have all of our farmland.

1:13:48BubblemanAnd when you grow up in that sort of way, everything's industrial and commercial and huge. All the machines, the harvesters, everything are gigantic. They're all made in Pennsylvania, by the way. People aren't planting small closets, they're planting acres and hectares, and it's just a very different game when it's an agricultural product like that. Cannabis has been removed from that agricultural product and put inside under lights, and don't get me wrong, I love indoor herb, it just doesn't really make sense to produce indoor herb for the world.

1:14:26BubblemanWe're going to have to get into fields and greenhouses at least. Fields, generally, though.

1:14:33SpeakerCompletely agree, and I can't wait for the day that we flip this. I mean, when I can drive down highways and see cannabis, you know, flowing in the breeze like I do in the Netherlands, I'll be stoked. I mean, the first time I saw corn on one side of the street and hemp on the other side of the street, I actually stopped the car, had to get out, and just stood there in, like, honest shock.

1:14:56SpeakerI never, I never, you know, highways, just right there. You drive it down the highway and there's the hemp. No one's freaking out.

1:15:03BubblemanAnd I'll never forget my old partner Martin saying to me when we got our first hemp field planted not too far from the highway in Manitoba, he said, this is going to change the way people think. And it was really kind of what you were talking about with Donnie when you were saying, we just got to get it in because it'll change the way people think. If we can just get it in, who cares what comes in as long as the foot's in the door and Yeah, I complain about this monopoly and that monopoly, but the bottom line is people complaining about LPs and corporate companies and they're worried about their own personal agendas because they've been growing weed and paying their rent by growing weed for the last 20 years.

1:15:39BubblemanWell, guess what? Wait until countries get involved. Wait until Jamaica is producing their niche of ganja, and wait until India, and wait until Nepal, and wait until parts of Africa, and all over the world. You understand these places will have the automatic niche of being that country. This is ganja.

1:15:59Etienne FontanCome on, Swazi. Come on, Swazi. I was thinking that. Come on, Swazi. I'm pulling for your heart.

1:16:06BubblemanGrown on the banks of the, of the, what's the, oh, the Malawi. Yeah, that's another one, the Malawi.

1:16:13SpeakerWe're a long way away from that, but that, in all honesty, in my opinion, is the vision. I can't wait till we have authentic Mexican, you know, bud, that I can smoke. Michoacan. I can't wait for real Acapulco gold. I can't wait.

1:16:26BubblemanExactly, exactly. These original strains that people know and love. It's like a full circle that we're coming back to import.

1:16:35Etienne FontanWill we ever see Thai stick again? I don't think so.

1:16:38SpeakerYou know, you never know that. I had to.

1:16:45SpeakerYeah, you know, Thailand's making moves. Alan Dronkers lives down there now and he's been doing some great things with him. They've been trying to talk to the powers that be and You know, bring it in, and he's actually been bringing in information from the museum and such, and he's been really trying to make an effort. You know, there's been progress in some of the strangest places, in all honesty, and it's really, I'm hugely optimistic that change is coming as quickly as information spreading across the internet.

1:17:10BubblemanWell, you know what? Everyone wants change, but nobody wants to change. If you ask people who want change, they'll all put their hand up. If you ask people who want to change, they'll all keep their hands down. It's unbelievable.

1:17:27SpeakerThat's fucked up, bro. You know what's funny is because 20 years ago I got into a fight with Jack Kerr and I told him that hemp was illegal because he was overweight, basically. And he was like, what the fuck? And I was like, look, you've got all these happy hippies surrounding you, talking to you about health food and being a vegetarian, but you don't listen to them.

1:17:45SpeakerIt goes in one ear, out the others, and he, you know, whole baked barbecue chicken for breakfast. And it used to piss me off because he was so smart, but he wasn't applying any of the knowledge around him Thank you for watching.

1:18:15SpeakerPeople with all these facts and fucking bullshit that caused me to change. And there was no willingness in him to change, if that makes sense. And I used to joke that when you start listening to the people around you and eating healthy, maybe then the people around you will start listening to you about cannabis and start thinking and taking it seriously. And hemp will become legal in the same way that you realize, you know what, I do have to exercise and eat healthy if I want to maintain my health.

1:18:41SpeakerIt's my responsibility. And it's our responsibility as citizens of the fucking planet to kind of do that on a scale outside of our human bodies and realize, hey, we're having kids, which is great, but then we're polluting the piss out of the area they're going to play in, which is kind of fucked up.

1:18:57BubblemanYeah. The only thing I would say about that is that I also was very much a student of the emperor's Wears no clothes and the hemp seed thing for us really got, it was one of the things why we wanted to grow hemp in Manitoba but before that it was all about trying to eat it and eat it and get it and access it and it was one time I believe I might have been on psychedelic mushrooms when I had this Revelation, where all of the hemp seed we had been ordering had been steamed, sterilized, basically to death, so that they could ship it over borders.

1:19:32BubblemanSo I had this revelation that I was eating like dead, non-nutrient giving hemp seed, and all the original hemp seed treats, Mama Indica's, and like all of those things from the 90s, and don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing on them because they did great work with what they had, and it was a very important step in the ladder that brought us to the next step, but

1:19:52SpeakerFuck if we weren't basically eating like... Dr. Now, now, yeah, no, you're right, you're right, because they weren't being sterilized for the longest time. And now, also, most of the market coming out of Canada is actually health food for the American market. That's your biggest export isn't fiber, isn't paper, it's actually the protein from the seeds.

1:20:11BubblemanAnd can we talk a little bit about irradiated cannabis or irradiated foods and what that means? Because people, they hear it and it sounds so terrible.

1:20:20Etienne FontanIs there something... Pardon me? All Idaho potatoes are irradiated. So if you're eating Idaho potatoes, you've been eating irradiated food products for decades. All international food is irradiated.

1:20:39BubblemanAll international fruit is irradiated. Okay, so because, you know, you've got this guy in chat and he's going on there. Dan and Freddie are going on about LPs and how evil they are and they irradiate their herb. And I'm just like, are these fucking guys consuming food as they say this that have been irradiated?

1:20:56SpeakerLike, I just wonder if people... Technically speaking, if they're sitting in front of their computer, they're irradiating themselves right now. Exactly. So let's drop the hypocrisy.

1:21:07Etienne FontanI looked at the Dutch themselves when they did the test because when we went back they would do the test before and after they did the radiating and there's no difference except the microbial everything is all dealt with. So it doesn't change the THC. It hasn't converted any of the chemical structure within the pot themselves. So I've seen the test done at the University of Leiden on the actual Dutch pharmacy grade weed.

1:21:29Etienne FontanSo I mean it exists.

1:21:33BubblemanIt's interesting, yeah. I mean, I just know that it's once again, they do it to, on a commercial level, I'm quite certain it's done with a ton of grain that is shipped all over the world that's grown in the main, you know, agricultural communities that produce the world's grain and the corn and all these things. I just wonder. Look, if you walk outside your front door, you will irradiate yourself.

1:21:59SpeakerDon't worry.

1:22:04BubblemanWell, it's good to bring these things up. I appreciate that people are mentioning things and directing things in chat that we can talk about. Yeah, I guess Dan and Freddie are breatharians. They only eat sunshine, but that's radiated as well, so. Apple, potatoes, and corn is not the same. Well, it is food that you survive off of, and it is a health thing, so I don't know.

1:22:30Etienne FontanI know I don't smoke my potatoes. That's true.

1:22:33BubblemanNo, but you do cook them. You do heat them up.

1:22:36Etienne FontanAnd I eat the skin even because the skin has all the nutrients and everything in it, you know.

1:22:43BubblemanYeah, I mean, hey, if it's terrible, I'd love to see the, you know, I'm not saying it's not or that it is. I'm just saying, you know, rather than shoot out these little blurbs of negativity, why don't you back it up with some actual fucking substance? It's so easy to go into a chat room and just verbally diarrhea all over the fucking room, but it's like, how about some gems?

1:23:03BubblemanLike, if you're giving us valid information and you want to teach people, then back it up with some value.

1:23:10SpeakerMark, how many people are watching right now live? 646. Okay, so let's play numbers for a second. So even if there's just like three or four bad apples in that 600 and some odd, it's just like, you know, it's any swath of the human population, you're going to find the same number of bad actors, right? Pastures just like anything else, right?

1:23:31BubblemanWell, and the minute you call these guys out, they say the same thing. Oh, you're a sellout. That's what he's telling me now. I've sold out. I'm like, sold out to who? Thank you for watching.

1:23:57BubblemanTo verbally, you know, to basically shit all over the chat room over and over and over again. It's like, why not just do it on your own channel if, you know, oh right, because nobody watches it. Sorry.

1:24:12BubblemanOh my goodness. Hey, I'm fucking ornery today. Have you guys noticed? Yeah, you are pissing me off. Ornery bubble man.

1:24:25Etienne FontanWhat happened? Did somebody piss in your closed toaster this morning?

1:24:28BubblemanNobody pissed in my toaster. Okay, I will admit this. I sledded yesterday all day long in five feet of snow. We got stuck a hundred fucking times. We had to cut trees to get our sleds out. We had to flip and turn. I am so beat. I feel like D420K beat me with a fucking axe handle. That's how I feel. We've been old and sore. Dude, last night laying in bed.

1:24:51Etienne FontanSmoke some weed. There's this hash. I think there's about 80 vials in front of you.

1:24:55BubblemanYou know what? I've got to give it up, actually, because Horatio, I had told him a while ago, I was like, dude, that fucking cream you gave me, I had a weird pinched nerve thing, and I tried Horatio's cream, and literally there was zero effects. And I didn't go and slam Horatio, because I just felt like, how do you test something One fucking time and then slam it.

1:25:14BubblemanWell, last night, my fucking hip and leg, I mean, fuck, it was insane. I couldn't sleep. I was up until almost 6 in the morning with my leg just throbbing. And I basically took his cream, the whole bottle, Horatio, and fucking put that on my leg last night. And fucking fell asleep after about 25 minutes. So I have to say, I finally, I used it for the right thing.

1:25:39BubblemanI was using it for the wrong thing. The nerve was, there's no way it was going to do anything for the nerve. But I'll tell you, man, the throbbing pain I had in my hip last night, thanks to that fucking salve, or balm, I got a whole two hours of sleep.

1:25:55SpeakerWell, that's unfortunate for hashers, but that's the thing where I'm like, There's going to be a time where it's use the whole fucking jar and get yourself out of a jam. And when you think of what are the alternatives in drugs, you're fucked. So that's kind of why I made it. I'm like trying to find those certain conditions where you're really in agony. And I guess it's more anti-inflammatory.

1:26:16SpeakerThat's why I'm still working on that nerve issue. Because it's truly a different type of pain. And understanding it's big.

1:26:25BubblemanI felt for people with chronic pain last night because I'm not in chronic pain ever and last night for about eight hours I was in chronic fucking like just chronic pain and I just I wanted to say to all of you out there who are suffering with that pain that holy shit man you guys are like my heroes that you make it through life and that you stay positive and that you you know you maintain because it really is no joke when you're in that kind of pain it's so easy To feed the demons, to be brought into that pharmaceutical world where you're like, I just have to make this stop and people drink it and they fucking consume pills and they basically are in this terrifying situation that no one could really ever understand unless they walked a mile in their shoes, which is to say felt the pain that they're living in.

1:27:17BubblemanI'm telling you, man. I really, my hat's off to people that live with chronic pain because it is no fucking joke.

1:27:28SpeakerIt's really one of the things that inspire me because it's not one of the things people are focusing on and trying to address. Like at all, they're like, oh yeah, I've got a bomb and I'm like, seems like you're just trying to sell a bunch of cream base with a little bit of cannabinoids in it which seems to be a lot of the products that you see on the shelf.

1:27:46SpeakerIt's just, how can I upstretch where I'm more like, I swear to God, I think we can up concentrate and the modality of using a bomb is Get to where you need it rather than telling you, dude, you should just eat a half a syringe. That'll solve your hip. Like, it wouldn't solve your hip. To the point you almost, now you need to, you could have used it as a preventative if you knew you were going to fuck yourself up so hard.

1:28:08SpeakerYeah, exactly.

1:28:12BubblemanJosh, where did he go? Ganja Josh wants to know if we can discuss, now I don't know if I'm even going to find it because the chat moves so fast. If we can discuss the heating temperatures of rosin... And there we go. Can we discuss rosin in different breakdown temps for different cannabinoids? I'll tell you, I'll start this out this way. A lot of people, mostly BHO makers, were saying that there's no way that the terpene content can be as high as in BHO because the heat and the BHO is very cold and you have more of a preservation thing.

1:28:52BubblemanI was pretty blown away to see the terpene content in the rosin entries at the Emerald Cup. There were some high terpene contents. Now, if you go through and you look at them, I mean, Tony added terpenes to his entry, and he was at 85 milligrams per gram of terpenes. But there were strains that were in the 50s and the 60s that I'm pretty sure did not have terpenes added to them.

1:29:16BubblemanSo, pretty incredible. I look forward to hearing more about that. Anything you guys want to discuss about the different temperatures for You know, breaking down particular cannabinoids. Is there a way to use less heat and only extract certain cannabinoids? Is that something that people have thought about?

1:29:32Etienne FontanWell, will the Secret Cup have a rosin category in the future? You know, is it going to be able to compete? Does rosin compete against VHO currently?

1:29:43SpeakerI was going to say, yeah. Jeremy, you've seen some real rosin winners. Didn't Farmer Joe just take second place with his rosin? Yeah. Yeah. Farmer Joe won first place in Michigan with rosin and he basically is looking for a certain kind of bubble and then he presses it with a hair straightener. Yeah. Smart. It is ineligible from VHO. I looked at the kit myself and I couldn't pick it out and the other night I gave it to Todd and Todd did the same.

1:30:23SpeakerSo I went further and I was like there's no way this ain't a solvent. There's no way.

1:30:30BubblemanYeah, I make rosin like that all the time with a particular bubble. And this is stable for months.

1:30:39SpeakerOther bubble, it just turns to butter. What's that? Todd, you should grab number eight and show them what it looks like.

1:30:47BubblemanJust the shattery?

1:30:51BubblemanNo. Hmm.

1:30:54SpeakerJeremy, pound for pound, there's been a rosin winner in almost every cup, hasn't there? Like, I remember back since, like, Kali, like, everyone started bringing their rosin game, and, like, Bubba was winning in 2014. Well, the DHO makers are uniquely fair to non-solvents, but extraordinarily harsh on one another. So the way that kind of works out is DHO...

1:31:22SpeakerDoesn't always win at the Secret Cup. We've had a couple bubbles make it in second place, and then now we've had a first place that was a rosin, and then now a second place that was a rosin, and then Brandon's was just a bubble, and he's our champion.

1:31:42BubblemanBrandon Dablicious?

1:31:44SpeakerNo, no, that's Brendan. Oh, Brendan, right. Brandon is from third gen.

1:31:50BubblemanOkay, I can't keep up anymore, man. You guys have so many different companies that are... I mean, shit, some guys just buy a hair straightener and then basically name the country blank extracts, and it's like another new company. Like, I can't even keep up, bro.

1:32:05SpeakerThey're coming out all the time. What I found that was interesting for our finals was that the third place winner was Team 10, and they're from England, where it's still entirely illegal. Wow. And they came out and did their work out here, and they beat every other Shattermaker that was in the finals, including...

1:32:32BubblemanI've always wondered why people say, oh, I can't do this, I can't, you know, I'm not living in Vancouver or San Francisco, where it's like, well, fuck, do you have the internet?

1:32:41SpeakerWell, look, here, I'll show you guys what he's talking about. It's right here. I don't know if it'll zoom in, but look at what it looked like. Thanks for watching.

1:33:20SpeakerWhat temperature does it melt at?

1:33:24SpeakerOh, it melts just like BHO. I mean, you would not be able to distinguish it, you know. It's impressive. And it's not the only one I've seen like that. They're getting really, really good at making rosin. Can I ask you, Jeremy? What took, you just had your national event, which was a makeup of how many different contests, how many regionals did you have in 2015? Okay, so we had Spain, we had a couple in California, we had Oregon, then East Coast.

1:34:09BubblemanCan't keep up.

1:34:10SpeakerEast Coast, Maine, and we did Maine this year. So that's six, I believe.

1:34:19Etienne FontanBarcelona?

1:34:21SpeakerBarcelona, two in California, one in Oregon, one in Maine, and one in Michigan.

1:34:31BubblemanSpeaking of Barcelona, who's heading to Spanibus this year in March?

1:34:37BubblemanAnyone?

1:34:38Etienne FontanNot I.

1:34:40BubblemanNot I, no? No. Damn. Well, it'll be good to see you.

1:34:46SpeakerI might have to. That's amazing.

1:34:48BubblemanI might have to go. It's going to be a good one. It'll be a tough month because Jamaica's got an event happening that month as well, but yeah, just hammer them both out in March.

1:35:01SpeakerIt happens to you. Both of those trips will cost maybe go to one and then the other and then home, spend March traveling.

1:35:08BubblemanI'll hold you to that, bro.

1:35:11SpeakerI'm suggesting I might do it.

1:35:14BubblemanNo, I'm holding you to it.

1:35:17SpeakerI guess I should look at some travel agents. Hey, for everybody watching, I'm going to actually photograph the 20 samples that were in the annual, and I'm going to be posting them on my Instagram in the next few days.

1:35:33BubblemanBeautiful. HempXXX.

1:35:38SpeakerHey, Jeremy, when's the next secret conference?

1:35:43SpeakerAnd can anybody join? How does it work? Okay, so the next one is in Arizona on the 17th. On January? We have flower also now at the Secret Cup, so you can enter if you're a grower of flower and then participate in that judging process as a grower, too. So the growers judge themselves.

1:36:10SpeakerSo that's all coming up the 17th, and all of that's online on the Eventbrite. The best way to find it is to go on our Facebook page or our Instagram, and all the information is in there. All the links are in there, too. How many years have you guys been doing this? This is going on the fourth year. So we've had three years, basically. Awesome. Ash Love, for sure.

1:36:41SpeakerThat's incredible. Averaging three or four or five events, six events a year for the last three years. And that's really wild. There's that many of us out there making hash and competing and throwing down. Really, I'm inspired by that because we've been so underground. And I think that it's people like you that are bringing like the culture above the sea level so that other people can see it and realize what's, you know, things like this haven't even been going on in secret circles and private circles.

1:37:11SpeakerSo now that, you know, even like Legends of Hashish, you know, when I've gone to a couple Legends dinners in Amsterdam with Mark and, you know, that was, The kind of the opposite this that was like the primer to this that's no cameras and everything was a secret and who you saw there you didn't talk about and it was and now you guys are doing it in a way where you're like out of the shadows and into the light so to speak and you really are I think it's beautiful because it's it's highlighting a culture that I've been happy to be part of for a long time so I'm really I'm thrilled to see you go into your fourth year.

1:37:44Etienne FontanBut you're also setting the standards for others to follow and that's what's great we need people like you To have standards, to set people to standards, to hold people to standards so that we know what the creme de la creme is. We all think what we know is good regionally. Well, you had to have people go out and prove it and then to do it out in the end to get the national belt.

1:38:07Etienne FontanSo I think that's also a great way and I look forward to seeing more regional competitions, you know, with the Secret Cup as more states come online so that other people can also Contribute and also set themselves to those standards and compete accordingly so that we can feel that these are real competitions, that these are standards. This isn't just baloney bullshit. This isn't something that's written somewhere.

1:38:34Etienne FontanThis is actual stone.

1:38:38SpeakerYou're absolutely right. I'd love to do more regionals. It's a lot of work. And I think as it gets more legal, those kind of things will be more possible. Our drawbacks right now are getting venues that will sign on and then stay on and being more public about it so that it's financially viable to do all these shows. One thing I wanted to say, though, also was about Farmer Joe's entry.

1:39:12SpeakerHe had said on stage that he bought the hash from a dispensary But he neglected to mention that he works for that dispensary and he makes all their hash and he had picked out these two hash samples that he made all of his entries with prior to even entering Michigan. And they were the two best that he had found out of their entire inventory for the entire year.

1:39:42SpeakerSo it wasn't like he just went and bought some hash at a dispensary like he kind of made it out to look. But he was genuine about how he made it. He did make it with a hair straightener and everything. And he does look for a very specific kind of hash. And out of hundreds to thousands, these were the ones that were the best. And he had entered the one he thought was Second best in the Michigan Cup that he won first place with, and so he knew that he had this better one already at that time, and he was going to enter that in the finals, and that was his plan the whole time.

1:40:23SpeakerAnd he does great work, and I know I've seen plenty of hash that he makes, and it's exceptional.

1:40:32SpeakerFarmer Joe kind of made it hard for us, but You know, honestly, he's a fantastic cashmaker and, you know, I think what he did was great.

1:40:43BubblemanThere's always more information behind the scenes and that's the bottom line. People get a small bit of information and then they make their assumptions and they create their opinions and they sling their verbal diarrhea and then generally those same people find out weeks later or months or days that it's like, oh, you remember that thing you were bitching about? Well, you had it completely fucking wrong. Go figure.

1:41:06BubblemanIt's like the guy did make the hash. It's just interesting. I see a lot of it. People are really ready to pounce on people just for basically saying a single sentence without the background of the whole of the information.

1:41:22SpeakerCan I ask a question? This has to absorb in. Did that guy win with number eight? Number eight took first place? No, that was second place. So the stuff that I thought was BHO, which is not,

1:41:36Etienne FontanWhat number took number one?

1:41:38SpeakerNumber eight. Number eight. Brandon from third gen. It was the Skittles. Eleven? Number 19. Wow.

1:41:51SpeakerI knew he was going to reach for it to dab it. As soon as he was waiting for the number, then he's like, I got to get it. Wait a minute. So what is Skittles made with? What's the makeup on Skittles? Well, I have Skittles. Oil right here.

1:42:09SpeakerWhat's the gene? What's the sample in number 19? That one's a bubble. It is a bubble hash. He lays it in there real, real carefully, and then it melts out onto the bottom. So first place at the Secret Cup annuals was bubble hash. That's right. Oh, well, put that in your pipe and smoke it there, Bubble Man. I didn't know that. Well, Mark, looks like you will want to come out and start hanging out at these events, huh?

1:42:37SpeakerSo just skip some of the entries. You'll find the ones you like, obviously.

1:42:41BubblemanI like this one.

1:42:42SpeakerDamn. Yeah, I'd like that to be on my desk, honestly. Why must you live so far away?

1:42:48BubblemanI'm telling you, you would really like this one. This Green Crack God Bud. That's good. West Coast. Thanks, guys.

1:43:03BubblemanI went to their gathering, the West Coast Concentrate guys. They're kind of a really great group of guys. You know what they do once a week on Wednesdays at the CCHQ? They basically invite anyone and everyone to come down for free full melt. And they set up denails with nice glass, and they basically give hash away. Whether it's two or three or four or five or six or seven grams, they just smoke.

1:43:26BubblemanThank you for joining us.

1:43:55BubblemanI went there last Wednesday and they gave me this hash, so thank you guys. Much appreciated.

1:44:02Etienne FontanWell, you know, Miles and Ash gave me this the other day.

1:44:05SpeakerThis little piece of bubble ash. It was bubble ash, excuse me. Flower rosin? Yep. Amazing.

1:44:13BubblemanSmash holds it down in the chat all the time. We'll have to... I've been hitting it so little at a time just because I don't want to run out. We'll have to have him come in one of these days and share some stories.

1:44:28SpeakerThat would be cool.

1:44:28Etienne FontanYeah, I've been enjoying his stuff all week too. Without a doubt, the guy is definitely consistent and tasty vittles.

1:44:38SpeakerYou know what, I would say, you know, people, I ran into a lot of people at the event yesterday that were just saying hi and listening to Hash Church. And, you know, people that would like to come on or to talk about unique things, send a message to Mark, you know, talk to him, I mean. It's not like we're not looking for good people to share good information with, you know, it's just, you know, it's just reach out, you know, just don't expect us to follow or find you, you know, a lot of what this came out of was just us organically sitting down and talking to each other and chatting and, you know, that's really what this is a product of is just friends talking and if you want to be in the group, the easiest thing to do is just communicate with us.

1:45:20BubblemanIt's a bit hard to filter out, because it's just like life, right? I need a bubble bag kit to filter out all the 190s and the 160s to get down to those 90s and 73s. And I mean by that the quality of... You know, the ability to articulate your story. I remember one guy texting me like mad. He wanted to come into Hash Church because of something we were talking about.

1:45:43BubblemanAnd I was like, okay, you know what, I won't even vet this guy. I'll just invite him in. And I sent him the link, and he literally was like this in church the whole time. Thank you for watching.

1:46:10BubblemanThis isn't like a private thing. We want to hear from more and more people. It's just that the amount of people that want to come on Hash Church is greater than the amount of people who have great things to share with Hash Church. So we just need to make sure that we filter out the... What comes next?

1:46:31SpeakerHey, Jeremy, what do you got coming on? You were talking to me the other day about American Glass Expo or something. You invited me to in Vegas. Yes, thank you. Yeah, so one of my very good friends is Eric from the American Glass Expo, and I go to the shows usually just to cause trouble every, well, twice a year, and champs too. But me and Eric were talking about doing a thing together that's finally come to fruition.

1:47:00SpeakerSo we are doing the opposite of the Seeker Cup, the kind of cup that you guys didn't like at the beginning, where it's like Amsterdam Original, where it's openly branded. And it's also a business conference and educational seminars and things like that. But we're going to have an openly branded competition where the people will be able to enter with their own labeling and their own packaging and promote their company openly.

1:47:32SpeakerAnd part of the reason we've decided to do this is... A, Amsterdam. I was inspired by that originally as all of this was, that was where the birthplace for all of my cup experience was Amsterdam. So I would go out there every year and experience that. And, you know, I had the same experience of, you know, picking out my favorites and then watching them all lose and then Arianne win or, you know, Barney's win and not being entirely impressed always with what they had entered.

1:48:09SpeakerBut now in the States seeing what people are doing marketing wise and packaging wise and even display wise with making molds for their hash, making little honey bees out of their BHO, doing all kinds of little sculptures and I want to give people a platform to show what they're doing. And so this is going to be that. We're going to do an event At the same time as the American Glass Expo, across the street in Vegas, and it's called the International Cannabis Experience.

1:48:42SpeakerAnd we'll have a focus on business, so we'll have speeches regarding different aspects of the business and education as well, and hopefully more details to be announced soon. What date would that be? Across the street is the high-end glass show for the wholesale part of the community. They have 5,000 retail stores that come, and it's business to business. And now they've rented the whole Hard Rock to do that show.

1:49:13SpeakerSo if you've never been, they do a trade show thing, but they also have a certain building that they rent out all the hotel rooms, and some of the businesses are, some of the booths are hotel rooms. You go into the different rooms. It's pretty cool. And so that always ends up being like a crazy smoke fest. And this time, since they moved it to the Hard Rock, they kind of want to take that down a little bit and move the smoke fest back to where they normally do the show at Alexis Park.

1:49:45SpeakerSo that's what we're doing over there. It should be cool.

1:49:50Etienne FontanHow many Secret Cup competitions do you anticipate happening in 2016?

1:49:59SpeakerSo, I think probably about six, you know, it's, well, seven if you include the finals. We want to go back to the East Coast. They are really responsive to the Secret Cup formula, and they don't have a lot of shows, so they're really, really passionate when they come out. The people there are really great, like, Everything I had heard about people on the East Coast being hard to deal with and nasty, I mean, I could see maybe a little bit of that, but they're all super nice and I have the most respect for so many of those kids out there with what they're dealing with.

1:50:41SpeakerIt's like going back in time to a certain degree where people have almost dispensaries in their houses and stuff because they don't have shops yet, but they're all getting ready for when it's coming and It's pretty cool. Also, I want to go to Amsterdam, and hopefully Todd can help with that. And then my favorite event that we do is the camping event. So we have that one for California, and then we might do the, there's an event in Lake County that we're going to try and do where we would have a garden.

1:51:16SpeakerAvailable and guided tours around the garden. So that'd be kind of a cool thing to do. I think a first at one of these events maybe. But anything that comes along where we have a passionate group of people that can really handle it, we're open to doing the Seeker Cup there. And the tough thing about that is everybody wants to do the Seeker Cup there, but the reality of being able to actually have a team of people that can Accomplish everything that needs to be accomplished.

1:51:47SpeakerThat's very difficult. And so sometimes people take on a little bit more than they can chew and it doesn't go that easily. And so we want to work away from that and focus on the ones that are good.

1:52:09BubblemanThat sounds good, dude. I think that that's just like what I was saying about trying to get good people into Hash Church. It's like lots of people want to come in, and I can imagine that your group is an even smaller group, but of all the people that are excited to throw a secret cup or to host one, It's like how many can actually pull that shit off?

1:52:27BubblemanThere's a lot of organization that goes on in that thing. I mean, I watched you. You were busy as fuck, dude.

1:52:34SpeakerYeah, over there in Spain, that's one of the places it's most difficult because there's the language barrier, the legality of concentrates and cannabis is just getting dialed in. It's still kind of on that ground floor of where, you know, there's clubs, but Thank you so much for joining us.

1:53:23SpeakerI want to see this culture go a certain way and the people that we encounter are really wonderful, amazing people that are doing fantastic things for the world and they're not your typical or stereotypical stoner that seems to be attending a lot of the other events and getting a lot of publicity and notoriety over the years. I want to expose our family, so to speak, to the world so that other people that are like us can come and finally find their home and people that are like them and make friends.

1:54:05SpeakerAnd then, of course, show everyone else that there's this alternative out there. That's the best thing about the Secret Cup is watching the relationships. Like when the finals happen, we have people from all over the regions that we've met that are now like friends to me that are very like-minded, good people a lot of times. And to see them all come and meet each other, it's really, really an amazing, wonderful thing.

1:54:32SpeakerYou're like sitting at a table and all these hash makers are sitting there And you can tell that maybe they've seen each other on past church or YouTube or something like that, but they haven't met in person. Or maybe they don't know each other at all, and they're just kind of like meeting and seeing, oh, yeah, we're all like the same, so alike. And these great relationships build, and you see them flourish.

1:54:57SpeakerIt's super awesome.

1:55:01SpeakerI agree. Me and Mark met in 95 at a cannabis cut. We've been friends now 20 years. 20 years probably this week, really. Or last week or whatever, right? Thanksgiving a few weeks ago, we hit 20.

1:55:15BubblemanYeah, and you know what, that's really like, Jeremy, you nailed it with the fact that it's really, these events are all about the people. And so treat them accordingly because that vibe of people wanting to, I mean for me the Cannabis Cup, and people shit on high times all the time. But what they did in Amsterdam was they created this event that we all went to, we were all able to meet, we were all, there was just, you know, and from that obviously it got broken up into many, many smaller things, but in the 90s, Fuck, there was really not much going on.

1:55:48BubblemanThere was like the Cannabis Cup in Amsterdam, you know. You could go to that and you could literally meet people from all over the world. I'll never forget going in 95 and meeting a crazy Australian guy who tried to sell me his shoes because they had a kilo of hash from India in them. I was just like, I love this place.

1:56:06SpeakerYou know, I'd like to throw something out there because, you know, in some ways the Secret Cup is the polar opposite of the High Times Cannabis Cup where we feel like High Times is coming in and cashing out thousand dollar entries if you don't have a booth and all about the dineros. The Secret Cup, you know, hanging out with Jeremy and Dan, they have made it so it's almost a break-even experience.

1:56:28SpeakerI've watched these guys make a very affordable contest. Where not only did you not lose a bunch of shit, because if I get it right, you show up with 20 grams of stuff, and you get back on average 12 grams of stuff, because you get back a kit of everybody else's stuff, which actually puts you into a... I will get to any power cord. But what basically happens is you get back, if I'm not wrong, you get back 12 out of the 20 grams, and then the remaining 8 or so is used for...

1:57:02SpeakerThe event so that people can go up to an open dab bar and dab the entries freely and try them and taste them and smoke them and they're not just confined to the case. In my experience going to these things, am I right Jeremy? I mean the way you've done this has been really for the people. Really we are doing a lot of fails as far as making money.

1:57:27SpeakerSo one of the failures that we do is that we do not sell the judges kits. Like if we have a full roster of competitors, we have maybe one or two kits left over and that's it. And those are just .3s. And usually those go to the dab bar or some sort of... Other type of use. Sometimes we've had people take pictures of them like Todd would get a kit and be able to photograph them all.

1:58:00SpeakerSo we don't monopolize the money making aspect of selling the judges kits in any sort of way or giving them to somebody and then getting something in return. For those. What we do is we get all the hash from the people and we have it separated and then they get their kit back which is almost you know, it's a good sampling if we have a full group and They get almost their whole sample back.

1:58:33SpeakerAnd then what is left over we use at the dab bar so that we don't sell the kids. We give everyone that attends the event an opportunity to go and taste all or any of the samples for free at the dab bars. So that... That makes making money on these things very difficult. We also don't charge very much for entering. The only reason we have to charge at all is to be able to alleviate the cost of the things that we do.

1:59:10SpeakerAll the kits cost money. All the jars cost money. There's so many little things that go into doing the event that cost that people don't think about. Certain events where Michigan, for example, even the finals that we just did right now, they are a financial success, but we're not tremendously in the black at all. We're just able to be able to continue it. Some of the events are pretty successful, where Oregon is successful.

1:59:44SpeakerAnd the East Coast events have been pretty successful. And that gives us a little bit of extra money that we pay to the people who helped us do the event out there. And then we also use to basically keep the business going. The Secret Cup is also a corporation. It's a nonprofit mutual benefit corporation. Makes sense. You certainly run it like a non-profit from what I've seen.

2:00:11SpeakerBut you know what? I think it's really cool because it really gives people the opportunity to compete and it's not painful. You give up 20 grams and $1,000 and all you might get is a trophy. In this, it's inclusive. You get your hashback. You get It feels nice. I don't know how else to put it. You know, it's nice to see someone step up and try to do an event for the community, and that's kind of what I felt like.

2:00:37SpeakerIt's why I've been so supportive. It's why I like taking your photos. It's why I liked it, because, you know, it was Vernon Phillips who dragged me to my first Secret Cup, and I had a great time, and The community within everybody, Mark would tell you, it reminded me of Positronics. They rented a house and they have a private party for all the competitors so they can get together and it was blissful beyond measure.

2:01:02SpeakerIt was being in a room where everyone had a box of hash that they were trying to Show you and spoke you up with and talked to you about was magical to me. It was just awesome. That's one of the other things that we do that is a non-money maker. So if we are in a place where we have a good response, where we've got a full list of people and things like that, a lot of times we'll rent a house for all the hash makers that are coming from other places so that they have a A place to go to smoke and converse.

2:01:40SpeakerAnd one of the coolest things about the Secret Cup, like I was saying, was the relationships. But it's also that sharing of knowledge where these guys are meeting each other and they're like, how do you do this? And they're pretty open when it's just themselves. I've only seen a few cases where people are like, oh, that's a trade secret or something like that. But even in those situations, that only lasts for so long before the secret's out.

2:02:07SpeakerSo, yeah, we don't really spend all the money on ourselves in any sort of way. We give it all back to the show if we can. And I'm, you know, happy to do that because I just want to see the experience for everybody be the best that it can be. When I think about what we're doing at the show, I think about what would I want as an attendee.

2:02:32SpeakerI used to go, just like Mark was saying, there's nothing else. Every year I would save up all my money and I would go to Amsterdam for the Cannabis Cup and, you know, the coolest thing about it was Amsterdam. The Cannabis Cup was kind of like a... Cool time to go because there were so many like-minded people in town and they were all from all over the world.

2:02:55SpeakerA lot of them were American so for me being an American that was good. But it was just weather-wise it wasn't the best time of year to be there but it was a great thing to be able to go around the city and experience all of the different coffee shops and like the social scene and see like wow this is what it could be like. And all the different flavors.

2:03:21SpeakerFor me, I developed a taste for all of those long flowering sativa flavors that they grow. And now I never get them over here. And, you know, we still have awesome stuff, but I'll forever have like this, you know, passion for Amsterdam and all the cannabis cups over there. And it was so cool because it would be all the top people for the companies that were over there.

2:03:53SpeakerAll the people that were willing to do this were pretty serious about cannabis for the most part. And they would go over there and they were really awesome to meet. So I'd love that.

2:04:11BubblemanWell, we got Skunk Man Sam holding it down in the chat room, asking questions about the microbials and the pesticide testing. It'd be great to have him be able to come in here. You know who it would be pretty great to have come in would be the chemist there that worked with them for years, Dave Pate. He knows quite a bit of stuff when it comes to cannabis and cannabis chemistry and has a... Arno.

2:04:35SpeakerArno. Right? What's that? Arno Haskamp would be a great guy to get in. Ash Church. Awesome. Yeah, I mean... I can reach out to Arno through a friend if you'd like me to, Mark, I will.

2:04:50SpeakerI mean, not right now, but for a future church.

2:04:53Etienne FontanHe's a little too straight-laced, but it's worth a shot.

2:04:56SpeakerYeah, why not? He could always just say no, right?

2:05:03SpeakerSo, did you guys talk about the testing and the pesticides and the... Microbial disqualifications that they posted about the Emerald Cup, yeah?

2:05:15BubblemanYeah, we started with that a couple hours ago, and welcome, by the way, Uber Tony.

2:05:24SpeakerYou guys, you already started, you already covered that, okay.

2:05:27BubblemanWell, we talked a little bit about it, I mean, we just, you know, basically had a conversation about the Yeah, the, um,

2:06:04SpeakerIt was just more of a, you know, the understanding that, you know, what you put on your plants is going to come out of it, you know, and a lot of the dry sips. So we talk about, you know, washing the resin, cleaning it and drying it and then pressing it and keeping that in a sterile and clean environment, how important that is. And I think it was Todd When we first started talking about this many, many episodes ago when we were talking about BHO versus like, you know, rosin and the safety that we talked about with making flower rosin specifically.

2:06:44SpeakerAnd it was always my first concerns too was, you know, if you're just going to push green and you've got pesticides on it, well, you know, you're pushing the pesticides into a concentrated form. Or micro, right? Or microbials, yeah. Metals, whatever contaminant, you know, could be on it, right? Yeah, so that's a, I actually like, I think this cup is really legit. This is my first time partaking in it and being a part of it.

2:07:18SpeakerAnd I think it's a legit way of doing what they're doing and keeping it discreet in the way they're doing their entries. But importantly, it's nice to see A competition that actually posts the test results, whatever it is, good or bad, post the test results with the entries so people can see them. And then when somebody wins or somebody doesn't win, you can kind of be like, okay, okay, so that one had pesticides or that one had microbials and there's not like hard feelings about certain things.

2:07:51SpeakerAnd when you get to that top five, you're like, okay, I can see why those people would be in the top five, not just on the testing, but It's important to have that in there and it should weigh quite a bit and you should be able to see your test results before they announce who won, not afterwards. So I think that was kind of cool in that aspect for the people that participated and it's only $250 and 14 grams of hash so you have all year to prepare the best resin that you could possibly make from the best flowers and if you paint, spray

2:08:28BubblemanEven worse when they lie, because back in the late 90s, early 2000s when I just started bubble bags, fresh headies, and I was getting material from everyone, and everyone had material. In BC, it was ridiculous. You could get truckloads. People were actually going to the dump and throwing it away. It was an amazing thing. You just can't even believe it. It was like, Truly changed the game when those bags started getting sold and people were like all of a sudden coveting their trim, which was before, of course, garbage.

2:09:06BubblemanI always loved the mentality of prohibition where you pay a wage to a person to cut resin off of your resin-producing plants so you can throw it in the dump. Anyway, that used to happen and I'd get trim from many different people back then, not even Bud. And the main culprit back then was Defender and Sulphur Burners. And sulfur seemed to have this ability to breach the resin head in a way that oil, water hash, whatever you're doing, there was no fucking way to seemingly get it separated.

2:09:38SpeakerI mean, maybe a chemist with... It makes chemical sense. It totally makes chemical sense. Fuck!

2:09:43BubblemanDude, it was brutal. And these guys would lie. They'd be like, dude, I did not spray it with anything. And basically what was happening was they had powdery mildew. And so they use this sulfur product to basically kill the spores that were just on the outer side of the leaf. It's a systemic disease. It's still inside the plant. And I'll never forget making 24 grams of the nicest fucking, it was either Shishkeberry or Renee, one of the beautiful ones back in the day.

2:10:12BubblemanAnd I was living three doors down. And I smoked one little, I didn't even smoke a bowl of it. I actually lit the side to watch it bubble and drip and I smelt it and it smelt like a pack of matches burning. And I'll never forget taking that puck of almost an ounce and just hucking it off my deck like this cannot be smoked. It is not, it is a badly contaminated product.

2:10:34BubblemanI wouldn't even want to eat it personally.

2:10:38SpeakerYeah, well just the chemistry of sulfur. Sulfur is a really good antifungal. In fact, it's sulfur itself, elemental sulfur is like, you know, that yellow sulfur is actually inorganic, but as it turns out, it's one of the only fungicides that's allowed for use in organic farming. So it's interesting that it's inorganic, but it's allowed use in organic farming. That tells you how loose these terminologies can be.

2:11:07SpeakerBut yeah, Mark, any sulfur compounds, our nose has an incredible threshold at which these things could be smelled. And when they're lit and burned or incinerated or heat, they even make more noxious compounds. They make sulfoxides, and they're really nasty things you don't want. In your hash at all, not at all.

2:11:27BubblemanSkunk Man Sam is saying that powdery mildew came with BLD varieties. Before that, I did not see PM, so I guess he's talking about

2:11:39SpeakerI'm still on the raw.

2:11:51BubblemanRob was saying narrow and wide. He was using, No, no, no, no.

2:11:54SpeakerNo, no, he does. No, in Rob's book, it's BLD and NLD and, No, this is correct. It's broadleaf drug. That's Afghan indica.

2:12:05BubblemanSam would know for sure. So that's interesting though that he'd never seen powdery mildew before that. I mean, I don't go back far enough to be able to say that. I definitely saw powdery mildew from the early days.

2:12:18Etienne FontanIt's just such a bummer.

2:12:21SpeakerCan I point out your early days and his early days are vastly decades apart. Are you kidding me, dude? His early days was tropical varieties that came from places like Thailand where its thigh didn't stick, you know, and tropical areas that were loose spindly buds that would basically evaporate away the moisture quickly. And the problem we see with a lot of buds now is that people are trying to grow these complex hybrids Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:13:16SpeakerAnd I mean true 10 to 16 week area.

2:13:20BubblemanOh, I missed my 16 week haze that I used to grow. I loved that plant.

2:13:28SpeakerTodd, I want to ask a question on the sulfur issue because Bubble Man, as soon as you brought it up, I started to go into like pre-programd rage about the past and wanting to just thinking of all those types of hype and, oh, I only use it in veg. I noticed that... There's a couple of growers in this valley that, oh yeah, I use softball all the time.

2:13:49SpeakerIt works fine. I only burn it in veg. I'll look and I'm like, well, look, your weed's on the market. That's fine. I mean, in all honesty, if you're using sulfur during your vegetative time, it's two different conversations. When you put a plant in a closed room and you start flowering, you don't get flowers for two to three weeks. If you are using sulfur into flowering, you're dumb because the plant's going to absorb all that.

2:14:19SpeakerIt's a sponge for it. It's atmosphere. So people, you know, and a lot of people that are battling it don't know what else to do because they don't know what else to do. You know, it's also been the rise of solvent-based hash because a lot of people do deal with these environmental yet, you know, their plant. If a plant has susceptibility to PM and then you put it in an environmental place where it can flare up, Bam, you've got a problem.

2:14:43SpeakerAnd a lot of people that, you know, the bigger the growth, the bigger the problems, and they're trying not to lose their shit. So yeah, they were suffering all the way through, hoping nobody would catch it. Because again, it's buyer beware. If you don't know what it smells like and you don't get it tested... Hate to say it, but, you know, this is in a sense why people shouldn't be afraid of Walmart pot, because at least there'll be standards and regulations and you won't be smoking bugs and bug shit and caterpillar poo and things that you are now consuming.

2:15:15SpeakerWell Todd, the reason why I wanted to kind of go back is because there's always, that's the first argument. Oh, I only sprayed in veg and that you said it, two to three weeks into flower is not true. I've seen, because no one examines all their plants, they always have that, I do it at the transition right when I flip. It becomes this loose, bubbling, soft term of bullshit that I start reading and looking at the person and I'm like, okay, now I've heard and I've read tons of shit where you can see pre-flowers in four days.

2:15:46SpeakerAnd once that, because I've also, as I look, when you run enough of somebody's material, and they pass, and they pass, and they pass, and then they get sulfur, and I'm like, I don't understand. Five pounds and the fifth pound, it all goes to shit. Like, it's undetectable, because is that the plant that was under the burner? Is that the plant that pre-flowered sooner? Because this plant also looks very stressed, and it's hermenean.

2:16:10SpeakerSo I've seen where sulfur becomes a stress and it can really produce like It's utter, like, I'm like, I don't understand, dude. I just lost $2,000, and I'm going to kill you. You can't just say, well, I use it all the time. It's fine. That's the kind of bullshit where, I'm sorry, there's a plant that's closer to the burner versus not closer to the burner, and it's getting 10 times more molecular throw and damage, and that goes into the plant, and it can become a systemic thing.

2:16:38SpeakerIt's not like a nutrient in the root zone. You're literally force-feeding it.

2:16:43BubblemanI'm a lot more worried about the spraying of it on the gland head because I'm telling you, I've had so much experience with trying to, and all I've got is the gland head. I don't have the flower, I don't have the capitate stalk, I don't have systolic hairs, I don't have anything else, just gland heads. And that is where I'm finding the contamination of the sulfur to be the strongest.

2:17:05BubblemanSo, spraying on a vegetative plant, I don't know if you've ever taken a photo of a vegetative leaf But it's covered in glands.

2:17:14SpeakerExactly. And that is what carries over on that one bad plant even when it's just in veg. Because I thought about it and I was like, wait a minute, what the fuck happens if I try to juice weed and I listen to what these people say? I would poison everybody and it would be just in veg. Those trichomes are there. If you can smell the plant, that's trichome based.

2:17:34SpeakerI photographed them in seedlings, Horatio. Exactly why I'm like you are fucking a piece of shit just because you beat my solvent test five out of six times all the rest of your weed went out you fucking kibosh my business and you don't belong in the industry because you're just fluking it and grabbing at the last thing that works and to tell me you've been running it for ten years tells me how long you've been a bastard.

2:17:59BubblemanA lot of people before the extracts and the concentrates came along as well and I'll say this and I've said it before, my olfactory sense is off the charts. So back in the day when I first came across this, I actually Thank you for watching.

2:18:29BubblemanAnd I would light it with a lighter over here and then I would bring it over to my nose and close my eyes and if I ever got that, once I smelled it concentrated in the hash, my brain like locked in on that smell and then I could actually start, I mean I used to burn the herb probably for a few years after but eventually three or four years later, I didn't need to burn the herb anymore.

2:18:50BubblemanI could grab the bud and squeeze it and smell it and be like there's sulfur on there. And back in the late 90s, early 2000s, Even the Compassion Club didn't have a clue. I went there after I learned this and went through the herb and it was like sulfur, sulfur, sulfur, and it was like nobody fucking knew. It was very easy to miss.

2:19:15SpeakerIt's beneficial during vegetation. It is a nutrient. I just put an article in our chat about it being the fourth major nutrient. And, you know, look, if used properly, it's an organic element in gardening that's very beneficial. It's in your diet. Sulfur's not a bad thing, man.

2:19:36BubblemanIt's just we don't want it in our lives.

2:19:38SpeakerIf you're using it to kill mildew, you're already, mildew's a bad thing. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:20:02SpeakerYou have the right amount of sulfur in there. You don't need to supplement with elemental sulfur if you're going to be smoking this plant, really.

2:20:11BubblemanKeep in mind, Mark, the only reason they're supplementing is because they have failed and they have powdery mildew on their plants. They're using it to kill powdery mildew, not to give their plants sulfur because it's a nutrient that they require. Exactly, Mark. Thank you for saying that. Yeah, those are two totally separate things. I mean, I'm not saying people shouldn't give their plants all the things that they require.

2:20:35BubblemanBurning fucking sulfur in your room is not going to be beneficial for the nutrient life of the plant or the uptake.

2:20:41SpeakerIt's going to be to kill powdery mildew, or at least, I mean, they need copper and zinc, too, and you don't spray those on your plants, neither. No, exactly. Nature doesn't foliar feed sulfur, and when it does, it's called a volcano when everything dies.

2:20:56BubblemanThat's true as well. All right, so Bongrip, D420K is not here, but I'll say it. Bong Rep. I don't think we're doing near enough puffing on this episode. I think it's... We need to step this shit up. Thank you, Etienne.

2:21:12Etienne FontanWe are puff deficient.

2:21:13BubblemanWe are puff deficient. Yeah, that's something we are definitely not.

2:21:25BubblemanYeah, I have a personal issue with the fucking Defender anyway, but that was just back in the day. Seeing Hash be ruined was just like, it hurt my soul. Hurt my soul. Especially when you've gone to such troubles to grow such beautiful resin. And I'd never seen like, for instance, back then, you know, people feeding their plants terrible nutrients, not flushing the plants, or not If not flushing, but not, you know, basically doing what they need to do so the plant itself consumes all of the last of what's in there.

2:21:59BubblemanAnd you get this black ash and the pot was so unenjoyable yet I could take some of that resin and extract it and still produce a full melt resin that was actually quite pleasant to smoke and didn't have any of those salt residuals that the plant itself was containing. So that was an interesting lesson as well back in the day.

2:22:20SpeakerWell, that's a lesson also on where, because you don't basically take the leaf product, but a sulfon extract washes that leaf product, I'm vulnerable to those contaminants that you're able to basically salt dilute with water. Yeah.

2:22:37BubblemanAnd I think a lot of people are, I mean, my goodness, some people are more sensitive than others in all of this as well. You know, you have people using recreational, you have the odd person using it for preventative, but then you have this huge group in the middle who are using it as a medicine. So obviously, if you're going to use the term medicine, then you've got to raise the standards and make sure that the medicine that they're acquiring is not, I mean, shit, if there's been sulfur sprayed on it, that's suggesting that it has powdery mildew or had powdery mildew.

2:23:04BubblemanWhich, to me, has powdery mildew. I've never known of sulfur to destroy powdery mildew out of a plant. It'll just hide it from you, from the naked eye. You know how it works, Mark?

2:23:16SpeakerIt actually interrupts the pH level on the leaf, brings it up to like a 9, 9.5, and the mold can't exist in that pH range. It just acts as a beneficial in that sense. And people should not be using it in flower. I agree completely. But in some places, like in greenhouses and beds, you can use it to actually clean a room up because it coats everything.

2:23:40SpeakerAnd you do have it. People aren't failing when they get PM. It's an environmental issue that comes in. With the wind, and if you have a room that's not a closed, air-conditioned room, and you guys up in Canada don't deal with it as much because you're in such a cold climate that the shit isn't blowing around like it is, so it's environmental in a big way. You've got to stop right there, Todd.

2:24:02SpeakerI'll go get some powdery mildew from any direction outside of my house. Really? Do you guys deal with it up in Canada as much as we deal with it down in Baltimore? We're temperate. It's a rainforest on our side of the Rockies. It's dry on the other side. It's not cold here. Then can I ask, where is a good place that we could go and grow where you wouldn't environmentally be affected so much by PM?

2:24:23SpeakerBecause I asked this because I had Rosenthal telling me one day that we got PM in the Bay because someone started farming a certain type of agricultural product locally, and it brought it in like a magnet. You know, I would like to know if that's true and like, is there places we could go where we'd be less susceptible? You'd become a monoculture and then that's no good for the earth.

2:24:51SpeakerYou need to start working with other plants that naturally disable it by their off-gassing. Cannabis needs to live in a matrix. The more we monoculture, the more a single thing comes in and then proliferates and then produces a knee-jerk reaction from the human that is out of whack. It's basically... Not to be weird, like a lot of us, you know, we're not growing one plant. Most of the growers I know can't restrict themselves to one strain because they get carried away.

2:25:21SpeakerOn the flip side of it, I've seen PM blowing like out of the blue. I mean... It's on roses.

2:25:27Etienne FontanIt's on grapes.

2:25:32Etienne FontanA big problem that I had with growers is when they would bring me to their house to look through their gardens and I would say, take me to your intake, I would go outside and look at their intake and there's rose bushes right there covered in white pottery mildew and they're just sucking it right into their house. So I taught people to grow things like mint, peppermint.

2:25:52Etienne FontanThings that are not white powdery mildew receptive at all around your air intake areas if you happen to be below ground or etc. Because, you know, it's everywhere right now, especially from Vancouver on down. White powdery mildew has really come on hard for cannabis in the last 10 years, but it's because it's affecting other, you know, botanicals as well. So it was inevitable that it was going to go in our direction.

2:26:20SpeakerTodd, it's like using sacrificial crops that are more prone to powdery mildew, so you chop and toss it rather than having it develop on cannabis, which it's not. Cannabis should be producing terpenes on those leaves to protect it. It's not. People grow shitty genetics. I get the logic of putting sulfur so that it can't grow. I get the logic of covering the leaf with bacteria so that it competes.

2:26:43SpeakerBut you're environmentally out of balance because I would know as a permaculturist farmer, the way to deal with powdery mildew is to have 25% of my crop in mint.

2:26:55SpeakerIt's other herbs that will balance that out so that you have 92 terpenes that are coming strong. Can I just point out, though, we're in a clandestine situation where people aren't growing in optimal situations. They're using what space they can and do what they can. Most grows are not that big because of the powers that be. I mean, we're only seeing a flip in years. You know, the last few years, places like Denver open up and people get the, you know, courage to do huge grows.

2:27:22SpeakerAnd With it, we've seen huge problems at the same time. We've seen a lot of mediocre weed. We've seen catastrophes on a major scale. At the same time, look, we've got a long way to go. We're going to get to places, truthfully, in time where we are putting out a really good product. A lot of it will be when it's regulated. When you go buy bread at the fucking grocery store, you don't expect it to be moldy.

2:27:47SpeakerIf it is, they'll pull that batch. I think we're going to get to that place with cannabis. Really soon, we're just not at that place right now. And I believe that what I'm just reporting is someone who's been watching cannabis grow for years You get environmental things that blow in. It's not necessarily your fault. You're just dealing with them constantly all the time, especially when you're growing organically and you're not trying to utilize a lot of the beneficial tools that have been around and available to greenhouse production for decades.

2:28:18SpeakerSo, you know, there's been this balance of using the tools that are available and common You know, food production and agricultural production and applying them to cannabis but doing it, you know, for some people it would say in a respectful way and other people just say fuck it. They just, you know, try to make the money and put out a product and if you catch them that's, you know, good on you but try to get a return on your money.

2:28:41SpeakerThat's not going to happen in today's market. You can't exactly sue the producers and wind up in Coca-Cola court and work it out with arbitration. So, you know, Until we have regulation, we're not going to have what we really want, which is a good, trustable, clean product. Again, in some ways, this is why I enjoy VHO and stuff, because now, at least you're boiling it down to just the cannabinoids and the terpenes, and we do a test, and we do a panel, and if it's We've got contaminants, then we don't use it.

2:29:10SpeakerIf it doesn't, it's, again, just cannabinoids and terpenes. In some ways, I like where that's developed the conversation to, because in some instances, everything else is a contamination. Everything else. Everything I used to believe was hashish, I mean, if it's not terpenes and cannabinoids, what the fuck is it? It's a contaminant.

2:29:29BubblemanTodd, I'll tell you, in Jamaica, I was tripping them out when I would say contaminant.

2:29:36BubblemanBecause I was like, we decontaminate the glands. All we want are the glands. Everything else is contamination. And random people were just like, what do you mean?

2:29:45SpeakerAnd not to be rude to the word contamination, I'm not trying to diss that C word. I'm just using it to describe everything that is not a cannabinoid or a terpene. It's a corollary of contaminant.

2:30:00SpeakerI'm sorry, it's a functional corollary to purification. If you're purifying it, you're purifying it from something. Anything that's purified is purified from contaminant, right? Anything, right? That's how we decontaminate. Right, right, right. But the contaminant can be a friendly product. In this case, it's the rest of the plant material, and hopefully no other environmental materials, you know? Absolutely. It is good. It helps inflate the joint. You can't just have a hash joint all the time.

2:30:31SpeakerHonestly, I will never get over the time that we were at Legends sitting at the table and you hit the Nepalese hash. And when you passed it to me and I put it in the vaporizer and I hit it and it tasted like body oil melting on my tongue, which was so gross.

2:30:47BubblemanThat wasn't Nepalese hash. That was a guy's crop. That he turned into finger rub, and that finger rub looked like bubble hash.

2:30:56SpeakerIt looked great when you burned it, it was great, but when you vaporized it, it was pure human oil.

2:31:03BubblemanIn the trippy stick, and then you tasted it, you were like, oh my god, that tasted like feet, and you were like... You were like, oh, what was this? Oh, you gave it to Buddy. You were like, you got to try this. It tasted...

2:31:13SpeakerI hit it and thought it was disgusting, and Emilio asked me for it, and I hit it. And he was the one that hit it, and he was like, what the fuck?

2:31:21BubblemanIt tastes like feet. Dude, the look on his face, because at that point, I wasn't there when you hit it. I showed up after you hit it, one table over or whatever, and you were like, dude, this tastes like... And then I watched Emilio hit it and be like,

2:31:37SpeakerIt was pure horror. But you know what though, you know, you don't think about it because when you're burning things you don't taste the body oils on that finger hash, but then when you're vaporizing it, yeah, not so good, not so good. What about like fecal contamination on that, you know, E. coli and all kinds of other shit? This is true, yes. I wanted to comment on a few things though.

2:32:03SpeakerSo we were talking about the spores and blowing in and things like that. So there's two different worlds. In greenhouse or outdoor, spores exist everywhere. It's not like they're floating around. They just exist. And the wrong environment is going to allow them to bloom or express. And so the idea of your vegetative stage is all of your preventative and strengthening the immunity of the plant. So as you guys were talking about, yes, using elemental sulfur and different things like that are OK.

2:32:37SpeakerBut when you think about when outdoor growers are using tea foliar feeding with tea composting and doing lots of foliar feeding during the veg and allowing the UV light and the sun to strengthen that plant, you look at the trichome heads on the macro level, you see those little hairs that don't have heads. They're like information for the immune system. The idea during vegetative stage Is to strengthen your plants.

2:33:09SpeakerSo when you get to the flowering stage, they have, they're happy, they're healthy, they're, they're strong as possible and they can ward off different types of, um, different types of, uh, attacks, whether they're going to be on insects or they're going to be, uh, in PM. And so, um, that's just like important to just kind of keep in mind that they're, those spores are everywhere. They're in your, they're in your cure room.

2:33:32SpeakerYou could grow perfect herb. And then when you go to your cure room and if you let the humidity get out of control or you let anything happen that's unstable environment, bam. So, you know, preventative, your environment, and then thinking in the long term of how you can strengthen your plant to prepare for that. That's why I really do like, you know, greenhouses that have, or light depth where they can actually control, you know, getting a little bit of getting hours during the day in the sun Thank you so much for joining us.

2:34:32SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

2:35:00SpeakerI also think that that has a lot to do with it too. If you're growing by the ocean, you're going to have a lot more environmental sways and changes that would express that PM. If you're growing 1,500 feet high, 2,000, 5,000 feet high, you're going to have a much different environment that would also help with that process. And then lastly, it's what Sam said, there's broadleaf and

2:35:30SpeakerAnd the narrow, and there's different tendencies for those strains. We've had strains that I've seen that do not get powdery mildew. They just don't do it. And that's the question, Tony.

2:35:41BubblemanHe literally just said, the real problem is WLDs, wide-leaf drug cultivars, that have no natural resistance to PM. If you do what you say to the worst PM varieties, they will still have problems. Breed resistance.

2:36:01SpeakerI agree with that. I agree with that. And there's been, what we talk about contamination, I feel there's a lot of contamination in the genetics. You know, there's, and I say that lightly, but it's, you know, you've got 800 land races out there. You've got all these genetics that have been crossed over back and forth. We saw it in Jamaica. So what do you think is happening to all the strains that have been cultivated only indoor?

2:36:25SpeakerIt's like we have a zoo. And we have taken in the tiger and we've cloned the tiger a whole bunch and put him in a whole bunch of other zoos. And now we've had our different varieties of tigers that are mating with each other. And then somebody says, okay, we're going to take our tiger to the jungle. Let's let him out and see what happens. Well, what's going to happen is a bigger tiger and a faster pack of tigers are going to come around and eat you very quickly.

2:36:49SpeakerOr there's going to be other environmental conditions like, you know, pumas and, and God knows what that's out in the nature that's going to take you out. So I think that's like the biggest challenge in the long run is breeding back for those type of things.

2:37:09Etienne FontanWe're going to find ourselves with just a new plethora of problems once they start to go industrial. They already are. You're seeing that already in Colorado. And as it goes into other states, into other regions, you're going to find regional problems and things that are going to creep out because we really haven't dealt aggressively... You know, agronomically, with cannabis, over all these decades of prohibition, we've had to literally hide in the closet, and the closet's produced white powdery mildew along the way, so there's other problems that are only going to continue to creep up.

2:37:42Etienne FontanYou know, you've got root aphid problems in certain states, you have canker problems, you even have oak death, which happens in oaks here in Oakland, it can actually happen in The stocks of cannabis have actually caused a calcification so there's no transpiration in the stock and literally the plants just fall over and die. So even sudden oak death, which is susceptible to oak trees, has been found to start to happen in cannabis here in California as well.

2:38:11Etienne FontanSo we have a lot of work still to be done in understanding as well as we're going to find new problems and that's the thing about farming. It's only going to come through growing it and finding out these problems along the way. On top of that, as I talked a few hashtags ago, we still need these companies to come out and start working us to find safer alternatives to what we're doing or work on proper environmental ranges that keep out these types of situations.

2:38:43Etienne FontanBut we're going to find everywhere we go there's going to be new types of situations. It's just Again, why created years ago that contaminant list, 10 pages of every list of known contaminant that is out there so we can start looking at what's currently out there because there's going to be new things that creep up and come out that we have to deal with. So we at least need to know our history of what is currently out there that we're dealing with.

2:39:08Etienne FontanAnd as you see, the current host of other problems and issues that science isn't even addressing that we've talked about in this entire Thank you so much for joining us.

2:39:46Etienne FontanThank you so much for joining us.

2:40:16Etienne FontanThank you for joining us.

2:40:46Speakeris literally waiting and as you start from seed or you start from clone, you're starting at 100% and every day that goes by, you're like in school and you can either stay at 100% and have an A plus or different things can happen along the way and your score gets started going down and bugs, they wait for you to fail. They're like your biggest haters. They're like, please give me one opportunity to get in there And I will destroy and eat everything about this plant because it's got so much things going on.

2:41:20SpeakerIt's like a superfood for bugs. So if the immunity is down, the genetics are not proper from the beginning, you're already starting off with a negative curve. So if you're starting with a plant that isn't bred a certain way, and what Sam's saying is you start with the breeding. The way you fix everything is you breed it out. And so when you have proper strains, you're going to be able to stay at 100%.

2:41:47SpeakerThen your environmental conditions and your nutrient program is on you. But now what we're doing is we're starting off with a negative curve because it's not properly bred genetics. And I'm not saying everybody's genetics. I'm just saying in general the pass along of people home to home and different clones over the years and things that are getting passed around. And so it's like starting off with a...

2:42:13SpeakerYou know, a race or something and you're supposed to have 12 cylinders and you've got like 8 of them. You're like, yeah, I've got the slots for the other 12 but I've got 8 of them and you're trying to compete in a race with that. So, I think that's like the biggest issue is the breeding, you know, and that's where it starts from. But this is like, you know, this is like a plant that, you know, is like Murphy's Law, what can go wrong will go wrong very quickly.

2:42:43SpeakerAnd all the stuff that we're talking about and what everyone else has to understand when they're trying to start off growing is that like, you know, you've got to really pay attention to every parameter possible if you want to actually produce what we're calling is medicine. So that way when you create your concentrated or your extract forms, we actually could still, you could actually still stand behind and call it medicine.

2:43:08SpeakerI think the biggest thing besides PM is the pesticides. Because pesticides being concentrated has serious adverse effects. If we smoke it, it could have genetic deformations and all kinds of things that you just don't know. And the studies that are out there are really bad. So, you know, it's like you get PM, you get pesticides, you combine the two, you just blowtorch the crop, you know. It's, in my opinion, it's like start over.

2:43:42SpeakerBlowtorch the whole thing and start over. And I think the industry is going to get extremely strict. Like what Todd said, when you get to regulation and you're scared about Walmart stuff, they're going to be, you know, it's going to be under such strict scrutiny that the end product will at least be clean. It won't have any kind of pesticides, microbials, fecal matter, you know, eucalyptus. Botulism, everything.

2:44:12SpeakerWhat that's going to be like and if something you want to smoke, I don't know. But that's a different story. But let's talk about, I want to talk about something that would be, that I know that a lot of people out there have been asking about. Let's pretend, for instance, because there are a lot of people out there that grow really good herb and they don't have microbial problems, they don't have PM problems, and you're actually On your way to make resin or flower rosin, hash rosin or any kind of concentrates.

2:44:49SpeakerLet's look at the bright side of things because that was a pretty grim long discussion of the end of the world of what could happen. But let's say that it's clean. And you had asked me earlier about the film that we were using. Do you remember that, Bubble Man? The actual film that you've been using?

2:45:15BubblemanYes, yes. I had a guy on YouTube recently. He had asked me if it was a certain thing, and then I asked you, and you were like, no. And then he posted this other thing, and I was like, that looks just like what I'm using. And he's like, well, that's this Teflon sheet or whatever. And I'm like, okay, but I don't think that's what it is. So what is it exactly?

2:45:38BubblemanBecause I have no idea.

2:45:39SpeakerOkay, it's Yeah, no problem. And this is stuff that, like, I think Mark will probably chime in on. And like I said, I was really cautious about it because we've gone through PTFEs and different films and stuff that's out there. But really the parameters are you need a nonstick, BPA-friendly, you know, something that is going to repel all of the oils, something that's going to take high strength, and you need something that's thin and reusable.

2:46:10SpeakerAnd it works really well with hash rosin, this particular film. And I just went through a whole bunch of different ones and I found one that I sent you that you can post on the chat, a link on Amazon where to get it. And then there's some facts about that that you should probably post into the group. I'm on my phone so that Mark can look at it because he's going to know exactly what it is.

2:46:35SpeakerAnd so there's different types of PTFE that are coded. And they're made a certain way. So the particular film that I sent you has a 5,000 PSI rating, so you have to get into the manufacturer safety data spec sheets and things like that. It's rated for over 500 degrees. It's .08 millimeters thick, so it's very thin. Very hard to rip. And you've been reusing it, reusing it, reusing it over and over.

2:47:07SpeakerAnd there's a lifetime Uh, uh, like flower, uh, coating that's on it. Um, and I looked into it, you know, the pros are it does work. It works really good. It can be reused over and over. Uh, the cons to it is like what market brought up before. It's that, you know, so many people use parchment paper and so many people use other things. So there's two arguments here, but you know, these types of products that are created, They don't get broken down.

2:47:40SpeakerSo, I will put that out there. The product that you're going to be posting doesn't get broken down. And that's important because, you know, we create things on Earth, and if they don't break down, and there's no way to get rid of them, you know, we're talking about molecules and contamination, we're leaving a footprint on Earth as human beings. I personally try not to do that as much as possible.

2:48:05SpeakerWe all leave footprints for humans, But, you know, parchment paper at least has a breakdown. And this is a whole other discussion of half-life breakdown, I'm sure. But I wanted you to try it. I wanted other people to try it for several months before it got out there in the sense that to make sure that it was, you know, what we felt was safe and it was reusable and something that we would recommend to people.

2:48:33SpeakerI don't think it's the greatest thing necessarily for flowers. Although you might have used it for flowers, but it certainly is a very clean way to extract any kind of hash rosin. Feel free to chime in and post that. I know Mark's going to have a bunch to talk about on it.

2:48:53BubblemanWhat's it made of, Tony? I sent it to you, Mark. If you go look on your Facebook, I forwarded you. Is that what it was? I was kind of hoping you could peep it and then give us your two cents on that. Okay, who's the supplier, do you know?

2:49:09SpeakerYeah, I think I looked it up at some point. You just have to Google. I was trying to Google it, but I was on the phone at the same time trying to get to this.

2:49:21BubblemanWell, the manufacturer is TFX Nonstick.

2:49:24SpeakerOkay, I see that. I'm looking at your message right now, Mark. All right, I'll tell you what. I don't want to spend time on Hash Church looking at this. I'll look at this offline and maybe chime in on Facebook or something. Yeah, well, let me just... Yeah, I'm reading it says it's FDA approved, BPA, which are bisphenol A, which is a very common plasticizer that's used in a lot of plastics that people worry about leaching into, say, like water bottles, and it's a plasticizer, so it's used in like the nipple of like a baby's bottle, so they're worried about BPAs and things like that.

2:50:03SpeakerIt's been shown in laboratory studies to be... And then there's PFOA, which again, that is specific to fluoropolymers like Teflon. And yeah, Tony, like you said, it doesn't break down. And so what that means is that it bioaccumulates. And they're not really sure what the long-term ramifications are on health, but they're We're around Teflon and fluorinated materials from the moment we're born till today. Fluorinated materials covered the wrappers of McDonald's hamburgers for I think close to 20 years.

2:50:43SpeakerI mean, so this came into contact with humans, a wide swath of the population. A lot of us have background, these materials in our blood. Scotchgard was the PFOS material. PFOA was material in Teflon. And these things were used, yeah, as like slip agent and other... All kinds of things. Microwaves, tape, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, this looks like it might be a really good material. I'd want to look at the more detailed specifications on it, comment on it.

2:51:14SpeakerThis might be where the industry should go, Tony. Thanks. Yeah, I just wanted to, you know, I respect your opinion on it. I mean, I just want you to see what it is. But as far as like when you're talking about a surface and a non-surface that is, you can get, For doing what we're doing that can take high pressure, you're going to see it's a 5,000 PSI paper, which is nice.

2:51:38SpeakerAnd when you're doing, you're taking like, you know, you take that 32 rosin bag that Mark has, you stuff it with hash, you fold it over, you have two sheets of this, and you are pressing that out. You know, you're using like, say, a hand D-nail 5x5 or a press, or even pneumatic, and you have control over that to go slow and steady and You know, everyone's dialing their tech in and things like that.

2:52:05SpeakerIt's reusable. You just use a little water after you're done and wipe it down. Mark, how long have you had that paper and how many times have you used it? Have you even used parchment since I gave it to you?

2:52:17BubblemanNo, dude. And I brought that one to Jamaica too. No, I got it. It's like right here.

2:52:25SpeakerYeah, so it's also made for, it's also like made for, they use it on On grills and like panini grills and like commercial grills that you eat off of. So all of our food is also prepared on this type of sheet. Mark, can you hold that up again? Marcus, can you hold it up so I can see it? And talk so you can command the microphone or the camera.

2:52:50BubblemanYeah, this one's a bit dirty, but here you go. You can check it out right here.

2:52:55SpeakerThis is the stuff. When you leave a fold, does it make a permanent fold in the material? Does it mechanically deform?

2:53:02BubblemanNo, I can fold it back out. There's a few little ones that are in here right now, but if I just dropped it in the press, turned it on and pressed it, I can press those Those little folds right out.

2:53:13SpeakerSo an extremely important property in any polymeric material is something called the glass transition temperature and that's the temperature in which the polymer molecules start moving fast enough because they're being heated and pressurized enough that they start to mechanically deform. So I just want to try to get an idea of whether or not this is a low or high melting material or what do you think? I mean, is this melting when you're putting it in there?

2:53:39BubblemanNo way. I'm squeezing it at 200 degrees and it's... But you're pressurizing it too, right? But it's up to 5,000 PSI you can put on this thing and I'm not even going close to that. And I'm not folding it. I use two sheets, one on top of the other. I never actually fold the sheet.

2:53:58SpeakerRight. It would be good to get some, like, photographs of these folds and look at them between runs and see how the shape of those folds change if they do at all. I can do that.

2:54:09BubblemanI can photograph it with my macro lens and get really fucking close.

2:54:13SpeakerNow, I'm just interested to see, does the polymer actually melt in there? Is there a time at which, you know, again, because you're heating these things up, even for, what, a short period of time, but... Putting it under a whole lot of pressure, I'm just wondering what the specs on the manufacturer are. But I'll look at the polymer and certainly, yeah.

2:54:31BubblemanI mean, I'm using a D-Nail press. I don't think the pressure is very, very, like, big on the press that I use.

2:54:37SpeakerThey're also using a fluoromer. So it's fluoromer, which I thought you'd find interesting. A fluoropolymer, you mean? Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yeah, perfluorinated polymer, like PTFE, which is... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:55:21SpeakerBut they're super hydrophobic, and I think somebody posted something on Hashtag Facebook page that showed a demonstration of one of these super hydrophobic coatings that could repel things like ketchup and mud and any kind of stain slung at it, which could have applications in this part of the industry for sure, is that problem?

2:55:48SpeakerThey try to model the coatings kind of like after gecko feet. So gecko feet have a very interesting structural feature called a setae. And the setae, the way that they kind of curl back on one another, create a very super hydrophobic surface, which allows the gecko to climb around on walls and stuff like that. So it's a really cool technology that's being developed based on bio-inspiration like this.

2:56:14SpeakerOkay.

2:56:18SpeakerTony, you know what? I kind of wanted to talk about the Emerald Cup, so that would be a kind of perfect combination if people could see what it was, because

2:56:48SpeakerI, you know, I think that Tim just, Tim Blake, for people that don't know, is a Northern California grower who has started the Animal Cup about a decade ago, I think. And it has grown into what I feel is probably one of the best cannabis events on the planet. It's a real country fair with cannabis. And there's no police presence really to be seen. Everyone is so friendly.

2:57:16SpeakerIt's got an openness that I mean, even in Europe, I've never seen. It is, I think, the best I would love to see more events like it, but for now I think literally that the people in Northern California pulled off the quintessential cannabis event.

2:57:32BubblemanHey, well maybe when Tony goes through there and walks through, we'll have to mute his mic, and then you can talk while his mic is muted. And then in the meantime, while he's doing that, why don't we welcome Nick and Jen and Jessica and Marcel, who have been waiting patiently. To share some information with us here on Hash Church and welcome guys and gals.

2:57:55Jenn DoeHow's it going?

2:57:56BubblemanOr as my good friend Hash Bean would say, welcome boys and girls.

2:58:03BubblemanHow goes it down in Portland?

2:58:05Jenn DoeIt's rainy, cold.

2:58:08BubblemanCold and wet, like usual. Well listen, rain generally means snow on the mountains.

2:58:16SpeakerSo that's looking good. I left Utah to get out of the snow. I'm from Florida. I'm not a snowman.

2:58:23BubblemanHow's Whistler? Oh my God, dude. I was across the street from Whistler yesterday on Tricone Mountain, which is owned by a company called, well, they own the tenure, Powder Mountain. And so they have cats and they do cat skiing up there. So we kind of, we used our Google Maps and we figured out ways of getting onto their trail above where they're Where their tenure is, meaning their roads are locked and you can't get through the gates.

2:58:50BubblemanBut if you can figure out cutting a trail above those roads and getting in, you can just enjoy all this beautiful, you know, backcountry skiing area on your sled. And it was unbelievable, man. I'm telling you, it's like when I hear people say they're not into winter, I'm like, oh my God. Now, I'm sorry, guys. You just have to be into winter.

2:59:14Jenn DoeI've just never had the full winter get-up to stay warm enough to enjoy anything like that. I'm good.

2:59:23BubblemanI'm good, says the Floridian.

2:59:26SpeakerYou are such a Canadian, Marcus. Let's face it.

2:59:29BubblemanI know. I'm such a Canadian. I'm telling you, I love the snow. I also live in an area where we don't see snow here. It's just rain. That's the beauty of the Northwest.

2:59:57BubblemanI think so as well, dude. That is the beauty of the Northwest, that you can literally be scuba diving in the ocean, and then you can be snowboarding on a mountain, and then you can literally go play a game of golf or whatever, all on the same highway. Perfect. That's awesome.

3:00:17SpeakerSo we have an announcement.

3:00:22BubblemanI love announcements.

3:00:24SpeakerWe're doing an auction for Harlan's. And his family. And Jen scored this piece that Emily, Marie, and I did at the DFO. Her and myself were there with us the entire time. And we would like to auction this on Jen's page on IG, which is what, 420? Jen Doe 420. And we just wanted to show this on Hash Church.

3:00:53BubblemanAnd there's photos of this pipe and stuff.

3:00:56SpeakerThere will be, yes. There's been a couple. It's in magazines, too. It's in Hot Breath and The Flow.

3:01:03BubblemanHold it right there, Jen, and stop moving it. The minute you stop moving it, it goes clear. Now you can just drop it real slow, a little bit down below the frame. Yeah, that's the best it's looked so far. Wow, look at that.

3:01:17Etienne FontanMake it full frame, Mark.

3:01:21BubblemanI remember this piece getting made. Beautiful. So yeah, we'll gladly share the link for the auction in the Hash Church group and on my Facebook page. And that's a great thing to auction off to, you know, auctions are great in a sense because, you know, It allows a person to donate, in a sense, what I would suggest more than the value of the thing is worth. That's generally an auction.

3:01:51BubblemanIt's not for people to be like, yeah, I'm going to try and get that piece for like 50% cheaper than it retailed for. It's like, no, it's not really the point of the auction. The point of the auction is to pay a high value for the price.

3:02:04SpeakerThere's a lot of love in this piece. I mean, Emily, if you guys don't know Emily Marie, you need to. Because she is amazing. Where is she out of? She's out of Utah. She used to work at Christian Bruin. It's Emily Marie Glass.

3:02:26BubblemanIs that on Instagram as well?

3:02:27SpeakerCorrect. She is like one of the sexiest glasses. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Man, these two girls working.

3:02:36Jenn DoeI was just like, ladies, I want that piece. Yes.

3:02:42BubblemanHer Instagram page just blew up.

3:02:45Jenn DoeYeah, she does excellent work. So, yeah, it would be an honor to auction this off because this piece actually means a lot to me just because these two girls did it. It's the first DFO that I've ever been to, you know, and so to watch them sit there and create that together and have it be like, you know, a full female collab and then to come to me, I was just, yeah.

3:03:11Jenn DoeSo I think it's an amazing cause. You know, it means a lot to me. So I would really like it to mean a lot to somebody else because now it's got the rest of the Harlan backstory as well. So it's definitely going for a really good cause.

3:03:27BubblemanYeah, and you know what? Social media is such a trip that I swear to God I'm pretty sure I feel like I've, like, seen, This piece getting produced, like were you guys posting pictures and stuff the whole time you were doing it or?

3:03:39SpeakerYeah, the degenerate flame off, the DFO.

3:03:41BubblemanYeah, exactly, so I totally saw that piece get produced.

3:03:46Jenn DoeYep, literally watched it, that was the demo piece, and then I posted it up a couple times, but I haven't even broken it in. I was waiting until I got to my new house and got settled and I was going to have a nice little sesh and break it in and, um, I'm not going to announce somebody else actually gets to break it in completely.

3:04:08BubblemanVery cool. That's proper right there for sure.

3:04:12Jenn DoeWhoever buys it has to smoke me out. Has to come here to Portland.

3:04:20BubblemanIt's nice to see the women blowing glass. I've always had an appreciation for the perspective of the female glassblower. One of the first ones I ever met was, of course, Amber Pelligrini. She came up to our show back in 2002 or 2003 when we did the Degenerate Art with Slinger there at my gallery, The Melting Point, and... Man, her glass was just incredible. It was just, it was so different.

3:04:47BubblemanIt was totally different from everything else that I'd really seen before. And the little, her double, her double bubbler DJ was literally like one of the most ridiculous pieces at the show. Like it was just, people couldn't even believe it. They were just like, are you fucking kidding me? It's like, it's got fucking jewelry on. He's wearing jewelry. Like, yeah, dude. What up, dudes?

3:05:11SpeakerWe got Big D in the house. Yeah.

3:05:15BubblemanBig D. Hey, there we go. It's a secret cup gathering. We got Jeremy and Big D. Oh, really?

3:05:23Jenn DoeSo I also wanted to introduce Madeline Martinez. For anybody who doesn't know Madeline, she owns the world famous Cannabis Cafe.

3:05:32SpeakerHere in Portland, and she has something she would like to say. Well, I would like everyone out there to think about it. If we don't have a place to smoke our pot or to have a live band entertain us while we smoke our pot, You know, what kind of shit is this? I'm just really upset, and I will be the first one to cuss. This is fucking ridiculous.

3:05:53SpeakerWe need you all out there, if you really respect and stand for personal privacy, to contact the Oregon Legislature. We've got a lot of people here, or we've got a list here of names and phone numbers that you can contact, emails. Do something. You know, a lot of people contact me throughout the years that I've represented Oregon Normal, and they say, you know, Madeline, government's fucked up.

3:06:18SpeakerThey're sitting there smoking, and I say, you know what? No, we're government, and if you don't get up off of your ass, step away from your joint, step away from your rig just for a minute, and get involved so that we can all have personal privacy. Right?

3:06:31Jenn DoeI don't know if they know what's going on. Give them a brief overview.

3:06:34SpeakerWell, what's happened is the Oregon Health Authority has determined and asked the Multnomah County Health Department to come and serve me and let me know that effective January the 1st, the Oregon Indoor Clean Act will take effect and we cannot be consuming cannabis inside our business. It's a membership business where you pay at the door to come in and to become a member. We have complimentary dabs and joints.

3:07:03SpeakerBut, you know, we need to exist. We have live bands on the weekends. We've had the secret cup here to a VIP party. And so everyone and anyone, it's like a hub for the community is really what it is. And I look forward to you coming out, Bubble Man, who I haven't really met, maybe somewhere.

3:07:21BubblemanAbsolutely.

3:07:22SpeakerI'd love to come down. You know, it's super important. Thank you everybody for support in every way we can. If you want to donate, if you, because they're going to fine me $500 per violation. Well, per day, yeah. Per, you know, that day if you violated that day. But I plan on January 1st to stand my ground. And we're putting up a wall just like, they're allowing those cigar bars and hookah bars, which is ridiculous.

3:07:48BubblemanYeah, they're trying to close the hookah bars here and they're also trying to close the vapor lounges and I just think it's a really important place. Part of the normalization of cannabis is being able to gather in a place, on a platform that has the music or the comedy or the people and the interaction without the focus being alcohol. Exactly. That is a great threat.

3:08:13SpeakerAnd the problem is we've always been lepers in society, and now we have our own place, and here they come equating tobacco and cannabis, which is ridiculous. Yeah.

3:08:22Jenn DoeWell, and allowing the cigar bars, which is tobacco. Well, you can't.

3:08:26SpeakerAnd that's poison. That's toxic. And I don't want to step on anybody's rights. I just think that it's personal privacy. If you want to be in a cigar bar, please go ahead and do that. But I don't want them trampling on my personal privacy rights.

3:08:38BubblemanYeah, I mean, cigar bars exist. People go and smoke gnarly cigars in these venues and that's what it's for. That's... It's a private club. It's where you go, you have your cigars in a little locker, and there's a special room, and you can go and puff these cigars and meet other like-minded cigar aficionados. And yeah, it's not a place that people are going to bring their kids to go have a dinner and then say, hey, you've got to get those guys to stop smoking those cigars.

3:09:03BubblemanIt's like, no, you don't understand. They're here to smoke cigars. That's why they're here. And I don't know why we can't just have a place to do that with cannabis. And when I heard that Vancouver was also... You know, announcing that the vapor bars, the vapor lounges were going to be closed, it definitely made me feel a little uncomfortable because, yeah, just, why can't we have a place to gather?

3:09:26Etienne FontanIt's just prohibition. It's just more prohibition serving up more prohibition. You know, let people be where they want to be. It's rather frustrating to see these states that have become legal have to now fight for their ability to have places where people can gather and share. Didn't happen with bars. As soon as Prohibition ended with bars, everybody was in bars drinking again. So, you know, it's rather frustrating to see as these different states come online how still lockstep and behind other realities continue to be.

3:09:59SpeakerBullshit. It is. It's a bunch of bullshit. So let your voice be heard, please, if you have a minute of time to step away and just say something about it to the representatives. We have a list, and Nick will put it up there. I'll share the list on the Hash Church website. Thank you so much for listening, and I hope you'll all get involved.

3:10:19BubblemanThanks for coming on, and thanks for hosting these guys.

3:10:23SpeakerLove them. And these two guys, Nick, I didn't get to meet you. You're right. There you go.

3:10:36SpeakerRight on, guys. Well, I had a great time out here last week and just wanted to update you on the progress for Project 33. We're going through the shop all the way, getting everything ready to document and create work from the 1st to the 11th. I was just on the phone with the editor doing the video work and we've got our next couple of pieces that are coming out are going to be just little bits coming out soon and so I'm excited to share that with you guys.

3:11:11SpeakerI'm sure most of you guys that are interested are watching on the Instagram and stuff like that so we'll be Getting more active but really just getting focused on starting the documentary which amounts to a year of creating inclusive creative events and documenting the process and what happens when people work together to create these different Thank you for joining us.

3:12:13BubblemanAnnounced that they were now going to be accepting your currency at their shop. And I thought that was a fucking cool concept, dude. I mean, it's happening.

3:12:24SpeakerIn Denmark as well. Very cool. I mean, I've made all of my transactions happen with the tokens as an intermediary. So, you know, in that sense, as contrived as it is, Most of my economy has stepped outside of the default economy as much as possible. So it's, I would say, highly inconvenient at times, but it's the same as kind of eating a local diet or something. It has that same reward.

3:12:57Etienne FontanIt's got to make ordering a pizza a little tough.

3:13:00BubblemanIt is. Another difficult aspect I have with it is like when you send me a gift, for instance, you know, years ago I think I sent you some money because you were requiring to create a new prosthetic. Thank you for joining us.

3:13:37BubblemanTrading or selling because it was a gift from you. And I kind of felt the same way when you gave me this little guy. Even though when I saw the glass shop said, yeah, you know, we're going to honor these things for like a thousand US dollars. I was like, holy shit. That's pretty gnarly, dude. You're creating a fucking currency, bro. That's pretty cool. But I still feel like I should keep it because it was a gift and like your daughter drew the, like I have a connection to this, you know?

3:14:05SpeakerYou should keep it. Right. Well, and that's kind of, that's part of what makes this system so viable is that there's only a limited amount of each piece, so the collectible value of each token could surpass its face value in the default economy pretty easily. Right. And everything that happens, it graduates the economy into needing to create more tokens, and when the Thank you so much for joining us.

3:14:56BubblemanA platform of value. People already pay big money for these types of Millies. This is an art form. It's actual art collectors already see a value in these things. So to extend that value outside of just those collectors and break it up into a more normalized, like all sorts of different people can have access to this, it's pretty cool. Like money... Doesn't have a value the same way as like a piece of art.

3:15:27BubblemanMoney is just paper that people hold in their pockets and it comes and goes. It's very rare where someone's like, oh, I'm saving this $100 bill. Look at like Ben Franklin, like this is a good one. It's like, no, that's not the way people look at it at all. Spend those, Ben.

3:15:44SpeakerYou know, well, one thing that people, you know, oftentimes when you talk about, like, civics and government and stuff, people say, well, you know, if my taxes went into the community around me, then I would be happier to pay them, you know? So, like, if every dollar you paid in tax stayed within 100 miles of your house, then that would be, like, a really positive experience, probably, for the communities.

3:16:06SpeakerAnd, you know, when you give a central government control of the currency and you don't make Very granular local currencies. You're spreading that value. You're not spreading that value out with all the people who are actually creating the value. When we choose to trade in something, we're choosing to respect that value. And keeping that ultra-local, I feel, is...

3:16:40SpeakerJust such a positive way of spreading abundance.

3:16:44Etienne FontanAbsolutely.

3:16:47BubblemanBong rip. Bong rip? Sam was saying, but what if you don't collect glass?

3:16:54SpeakerWe're having a big party, too. Wave's coming. Tammy Baller's coming. We're going to be throwing down, making a bunch of glass. He's got the hot shop going to go up. There's going to be a neon section. People need Millie's as we got Jerry Kelly and Millie Mike coming out to make the Millie's and it's going to be fun. I'll be there. You're coming. Definitely. Yeah. You don't have to tell me.

3:17:21SpeakerIt is going to be an epic event. It's really like the film product in terms of just the glass blowing that is going to happen. Because of all the resources that's becoming focused around this, we're able to spread it in these awesome ways. Like, okay, we're going to throw all the best materials and And shop that we can muster together and bring the best people that we can and see what gets made, you know.

3:17:45SpeakerAnd a lot of people are interested to see that and be like, oh, I would be interested to see that. So that's kind of, you know, part of what's possible from this type of activity.

3:17:58BubblemanIt reminds me of even cannabis in that sense that one of the cool things about cannabis was that it always allowed us to escape from the mundane job from the from from falling in with the rest of the sheeple and you know you have found that in your art form in your art Marcel as well as a lot of the of your peers where people are really starting to put serious fucking money into this glass and not to say that they weren't back in the day but I mean, it's just out of control now.

3:18:27BubblemanI mean, people are paying a hundred grand for a tube. People are paying like $55,000 for a tiny little like eight inch. The level of art has definitely exceeded where it once was. And I see you're a guy like that sees this kind of money coming into the community and you're like, you want to do something better with it than... And just feed the same old system.

3:18:52BubblemanSo I applaud you on that.

3:18:54SpeakerI think that there's a lot of support for that among all of the artists. I guess I'm speaking for a lot of people, but I feel that there's a lot of really passionate, creative people People that are now making enough money to like actually choose how they spend their time and like do stuff on the planet independent of like hand-to-mouth type of activities. So we're really like stepping off of a precipice into, you know, a new reality where as a group of people, if we work together like the way like the religious right does, then I mean we could... You're saying what?

3:19:32Etienne FontanYou're seeing an art movement, a whole other art movement, which you don't see, which grows organically, which is a reappreciation for glass art. You look at art, and I have a degree in printmaking, lithography, and art and art history, and glass, if you look at it, has gone through its different types of appreciation through the years, from the cast glass, from the black glass in West Virginia, et cetera, et cetera, to now seeing This complete autograph movement, I remember back with the Galaxy Gallery and the Jerome Bakers and doing things with the marble and snot grass, really pushing it with the hammers.

3:20:09Etienne FontanAnd now, you see, you know, oh my God, Mothership, Custies, and all kinds of things that are, the prices, and it's growing organically as an art movement, which has to be appreciated on top of it. Someone's got to document it because there's so much glass coming and going and, you know, artists need to be recognized for their originality, you know, and as well as, you know, some days it's going to be taught in schools so not only are you guys just creating but you're also the keepers of the history as well as you are now setting another standard by not only seeing the What has surprised me, the tens of thousands of dollars that people are choosing to spend on art is something that I have watched fail in other art communities such as printmaking and lithography.

3:21:06Etienne FontanSo it's a pleasure to see another art aspect really not only accelerate, hold its own, but now set itself into its own stratosphere and set a standard to go beyond its art now into economy. It's transcending. So that's for many different levels. And it has to be acknowledged at the art level because it's not. It's at the heady level, et cetera, et cetera. But it has to be appreciated.

3:21:38Etienne FontanAnd I'm happy to see JD and others and you that are actually getting shows. At glass shops, but you guys deserve to be in actual galleries. And that's one of the things that the Galaxy Gallery originally did way back in the day when I worked there was starting to create environments where people could come and admire the art itself. Not the amazing functionality, but it's gone beyond that now because you're transcending it from an art movement to an accepted art movement across borders To now into its own separate underground economy, which other arts are.

3:22:18Etienne FontanYou know, people trade Warhols for Warhols, Warhols for Rubens, and for Michelangelos and things like that. So you're seeing that, you know, currently and expanding. And so much respect to you for taking it and transcending the art. And making it a part of culture, which is very difficult to do. And not only that, do it so organically. So fucking mad respect.

3:22:44SpeakerGo ahead. No, no, you go ahead. It's really true, you know, what you're saying, Etienne, about it being a movement where, you know, it's complete because we have creators and also a fan base that have money and it's independent of The whole art world that's existed beforehand. We're like the elephant in the corner already. There's so much behind our whole industry and the amount of collecting that happens.

3:23:18SpeakerAnd it's crazy because in the real art world you have these fantastically rich people with incredibly large collections. And the bulk of the really desirable stuff is held by a small number of people. And in our group, it's kind of like people stretch to get that one piece. So the really good work is spread all out through the community. And that's why I think these events like the Secret Cup and Emerald Cup where people are Coming together and sharing Hedy's is so awesome because that's the only way we'll be able to see bigger parts of the collection because of the underground nature of the work.

3:23:57BubblemanIt's also that you guys are, you know when Tan was saying you guys need to be in galleries, I think what you're creating is, you know, just because you're Marcel and you always have to pioneer and do things differently than everyone else, instead of just going into a gallery, you're saying let's create a community and do more. Let's not just sell these glass pipes to the 1%.

3:24:16BubblemanLet's get them out to everyone and let's do these living exhibits. When we did the Degenerate Art Shows, which you were kind enough to show up Uh, and, and represent. One of the things we did right before the show was we did a Legends of Hash, literally in the same gallery with all the pipes. And that, that was such a cool combination of the two things, even during a time where, I mean, the show was called Degenerate Art.

3:24:42BubblemanIt was based on Operation Pipe Dreams and And not being allowed to sell these pipes. So not only did we step it up and say, well not only are we going to display these in a beautiful epic setting, but we're also going to celebrate and smoke copious amounts of hashish and eat wonderful food while we do that. And we're going to show that it can be a normal thing, that it doesn't have to be, you know, when I think of a gallery, I just think, picture everyone drinking wine and beer and stuff, and I'm just like, man, it's not.

3:25:12Etienne FontanIt's altering what a gallery is and what art is as what this generation considers art. And that's what makes it so beautiful is that it is art. And why I got out of art is because art is controlled by the buyer. It's the same thing with the glass world. If there isn't an appreciation, if nobody gives a shit about it, if the glass isn't good, people aren't going to pay it.

3:25:36Etienne FontanBut fortunately, you glass blowers are taking it. And not only that, you're creating not only functional pieces of art, you're pushing the envelope. And not only that, in the last five years, these kids are shoving the envelope right down everyone's throat with amazing art and creativity across all these different spectrums. So it's organically had to transcend the art, and it deserves its recognition because it is It's been underground way too long, and trust me, if underground art was selling for $50,000 to $100,000, galleries would be whipping out their dicks for hours, okay?

3:26:12Etienne FontanSo that's the reality of it. So it is art, and it's good stuff, and I'm glad to see that breaking through the economy in different ways and using that art to transcend, because it is only going to build community, and if we're all about communities, and if glass community is everywhere, well then... It's good to see that Denmark and other places are accepting it, and because it's only going to open up to other countries to say, hey, if they can do it, we can do it too, because the arbitrary made-up bullshit thing of money is arbitrary, and we create its value.

3:26:44Etienne FontanSo if the art is going to drive the value, I much appreciate that. As I said, I'd rather prefer a piece of glass to a Warhol. I mean, I appreciate a Warhol to a certain extent, but you know, Warhol did mass-produced art, but it still sells to this day for millions of dollars, okay? So there's nothing wrong with reproduced glass. People are really doing amazing things. But to see the art glass in the community, and not only that, the amount of money that...

3:27:16Etienne FontanI mean, you guys have got to be amazed at what people are paying for glass. I mean, it's stupefying. I thought when people were paying a couple thousand dollars back in the 90s was, you know, out of my head to hear... Thank you.

3:27:59SpeakerYou can see the mainstream like coming in and that's where the money is being driven from is as this mainstream awareness happens then it's more and more people are being like well I can invest in that and you know we'll do this. So it's really, it's all happening and you know I guess

3:28:20SpeakerTo me as one of my pioneers as a glass thing, it's like this is our opportunity as a group of 20-year veterans to put a good collective community mark on the movement and to really be like, hey, this is a movement that is supported by a lot of people. Okay.

3:28:42Etienne FontanPeople didn't watch or whatever the other week, so how did they get involved? How did they get into this economy now?

3:28:50SpeakerThere is a token exchange, so I'm offering tokens at an exchange. The token unit is worth 10 US dollars, and the tokens are... Each one has its own face value, and you can basically order them from me. I'm starting to run low on tokens at this point in time, so we won't be creating any more until... January 1st to the 11th, but I do have some available.

3:29:21SpeakerThere's also pieces available, basically everything that's created by me or as part of the projects goes to become available on the token economy as well as the different businesses and vendors that are accepting them.

3:29:39BubblemanHere's a question for you, Marcel. Do you have an interest on maybe doing some live streaming? I could even do a special live streaming show and invite a panelist of your choosing. We could do it through my channel and you could share sort of the information while it's being created. It would be cool to kind of see the pieces being made and the energy that goes into it and the vibe that's in the air and all of that.

3:30:04SpeakerThat would be great. You could definitely do some live stream or even if you wanted to sponsor the project and create a live stream for the two weeks during the project from the 1st to the 11th. You know, depending on kind of where we're at, I mean, I guess what... What's really neat about this project is it happens at a granular level. So it's like I'm one guy with a house, well two houses on like four acres, and we have a really, really big glass shop that's nice and some fruit trees and a garden, and that's what I've got to work with.

3:30:47SpeakerAnd so starting from there. And it's great. So this project from the 1st to the 11th, it's not going to be the same project that's going to happen a year from now. It's the beginning. It's small. And, you know, it's kind of like a smaller affair, but it's going to have all the characteristics of being, hey, we're stepping outside. This is what's happening, and the people that come will come.

3:31:12BubblemanYeah, absolutely. I always appreciate when it's the beginning and it's small myself. I tend to... the best times to just be there for the beginning, to see it start. I mean, my goodness. I don't even know when you started blowing glass, but it couldn't have been too long before I met you.

3:31:34SpeakerWere you blowing for four or five years? Yep, about that. About that. Five years, maybe.

3:31:40BubblemanWhen you think about that, those pieces that you produced when I did meet you, I had never even considered... Buying glass like that. Even Slinger used to always be like, I can't believe you just smoke joints. Because he'd always like pack buds into bowls and I'd be like, oh my God, like what the fuck? He's like, I'm from the East Coast, bro. I'm like, okay, well, I'm just, that's new to me, like packing a nug right into the pipe.

3:32:02BubblemanLike that's how out of pipe culture I was. Now I owned one heady piece. It was Hugh Blewett, one of Snodgrass's apprentices back in 94 or something. It was a little, it was signed on the bottom in the wigwam. It was signed Hugh Grass. And so someone made me sell them that piece in 95 at the Cannabis Cup. They literally would not let me leave without selling them that piece.

3:32:25BubblemanI kind of wished I didn't now, but people love to collect, and if someone loves something more than you, I think it's okay to let it go.

3:32:33SpeakerYeah. It brings the joy to them. It's like a crystal or something.

3:32:38BubblemanYeah, yeah, exactly. You know, it's nice to... Well, I mean, look what Jen's doing. You know, Jen is giving up something that means a lot to her and is special to her. And she's doing it because Harlan meant a lot to her and is special to her. So what a great sort of... Every time she sees a picture of that pipe, every time, you know, after the auction, she'll be like, there it is.

3:33:01BubblemanLike, that's fucking a good energy. That's what people should be doing when they want to help people. It's like, you know... Put something forward. Like, yeah, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. This piece means a lot to me, and I'm going to auction it off to further help Harlan's family. Fucking hats off to you, Jen.

3:33:21SpeakerThank you. Awesome. So, just to finish the whole question, aside from exchanging... I'll take tokens for bubble bags.

3:33:54SpeakerAwesome. Awesome. So as our materials evolve, we'll start to have this database where we can start to link people that are offering services within tokens to the people that have the tokens. And then the other way that is possible right now is to do a normal type of corporate sponsorship for the documentary. So on the... For the year of planned shooting in 2016, we're planning to, we're selling sponsorships basically with logo appearance in the documentary and stuff like that.

3:34:35SpeakerSo I have, if anyone's interested in that, they can hit me up and I'm happy to get those sponsor levels and all that for the stuff. It's pretty much in line with the normal glass event. Uh, type of program that, that we've used for years in the glass industry. So, and, uh, yeah. It's good. Good sauce. It's good.

3:35:01BubblemanIt's good. I'm just, I'm watching Tony dab everyone out and he had some pretty fucking epic pinky dab technique going on there. Watch the, watch the pinky. Watch the pinky. He's like got his terp jar, he's got his fucking this, he's got the I just did this for like several days straight at the High Times Cannabis Cup in Jamaica and it was just wonderful. Having a booth where everyone can come up to you and meet you and it's just good fun these gatherings.

3:35:31BubblemanI really do appreciate them. Are you guys going to be involved at all? I heard Lyft took over the... The Champs Treating Yourself event, and I wonder if Glass is still going to be a part of their agenda. Have you heard anything from those guys at Lyft in regards to the May gathering in Toronto?

3:35:56SpeakerI haven't.

3:35:58BubblemanWell, it'll be interesting to see if they're going to be... I know that, you know, obviously Treating Yourself and Champs, of course... It's just very, very glass oriented. I thought it was great that year that all you guys were there blowing glass. That was really like, I don't even think many people realized how kind of amazing it was, the level of artists and stuff. For me, I was just super stoked to see you, Marcel, because it had been a while since we'd actually been face to face.

3:36:24SpeakerYeah, I like it when I get to Canada, for sure.

3:36:27BubblemanYeah, dude. Canada's not so bad. Well, I'm going to be liking it to get down to the U.S. I'm telling you, after watching all this Emerald Cup fun and hearing about the events that you've got planned and stuff, I have a waiver in effect and I'm just waiting to get it all signed and sealed and delivered and hopefully in the next six months I can go down and see Cuban and see Todd and see Tony and Etienne and all the...

3:36:54BubblemanAll my American family down there that I never get to see unless we all go to like countries that neither of us live in.

3:37:01Jenn DoeYou can come see my new little farm. It should have like goats and alpacas.

3:37:09BubblemanIt's so cute.

3:37:10Jenn DoeThe aquaponics set up is going to be going down. So yeah, we'll keep you posted, but you can come visit.

3:37:19BubblemanI can't wait to do it. That's what I'll do. I'll pick them up. I'll go right to Seattle, pick up Cuban, and then that'll just be, it'll all be madness from there.

3:37:26Jenn DoeWe'll get in his little race car and we'll just fucking drive all over the U.S. Yeah, Cuban's only a couple hours from me, so I expect to see you.

3:37:35BubblemanWell, the crazy thing is, is how close, like literally, I could see you guys today if I really was like, I'm just going to go down there. I'm just going to jump in my car and fucking drive down to Portland. I think it's like... Six hours, maybe? Or seven hours? I can't remember exactly, but I've been to Portland. I went to shows in Portland before. I remember Hawthorne Street.

3:37:58SpeakerYeah. Yeah, that's scary, though. That's definitely a...

3:38:04BubblemanIt was scary, but I'm from Winnipeg, so scary is like, whatever.

3:38:10SpeakerHeck yeah. Love it. Well, awesome. Yeah, well, thanks for listening to my rants again, guys.

3:38:22BubblemanOh, yeah, your guys' rants are always welcome here in Hash Church, dude. Fuck, you know what, Marcel, we've known each other a long time, dude.

3:38:30Etienne FontanYes, sir.

3:38:31BubblemanGoing on 20 years in the next couple of years.

3:38:36SpeakerDecades. Yep, it's getting to decades.

3:38:39BubblemanThat's pretty trippy. We're old.

3:38:47SpeakerAwesome.

3:38:48BubblemanTony's just non-stop. He's just like, his arms are going to be out like this for the next like eight hours. He's just going to be doing this.

3:38:55SpeakerOh, okay.

3:38:56BubblemanHey, there's Jeff Church in the background wearing the archive hat of Tony's camera. If you guys see him there.

3:39:10SpeakerThe reverend.

3:39:12BubblemanOh, yeah, there's Jeff. He's there. Jeff's fun. I met Jeff through all of you guys as well, you know. I met Jeff, I guess he came up one of the times with you guys. I don't know who it was. If it was like, you guys used to come up with such a great group of people. I mean, from like Zach and Derek and Pedro used to come and you and Slinger and fucking, oh my God, man.

3:39:40BubblemanThose were really like pretty incredible times.

3:39:44SpeakerOh, that was good times. That was way good times.

3:39:48BubblemanYeah, really. We didn't even know it at the time, how good times it was. But, hey, it's good times now, too, and we'll look back 10 years from now and go, man, was that ever incredible.

3:39:59SpeakerOh, man. I remember one New Year's. Where was that penthouse? Oh, my goodness. That thing?

3:40:09BubblemanOh, the penthouse that I had in Vancouver?

3:40:13SpeakerYeah. Yeah, I remember you gave it to me for New Year's Eve one night, that one year.

3:40:18BubblemanDude, I used to give that penthouse to all my friends. I'd just be like, here's the keys, and they'd just be like, what?

3:40:25SpeakerIt was so fun, oh my goodness.

3:40:27BubblemanYeah, for those of you wondering, this was a two-story penthouse with like 1,500 square feet of deck overlooking Stanley Park in Vancouver. It was so baller.

3:40:42SpeakerYeah, it was as baller as it gets for sure.

3:40:45BubblemanAnd then my friends from like Nelson that smelt like BO and patchouli like fucking hippie freaks would come up and I'd be like, here's the keys. Like fucking get your asses in there, you know, like go hang out at the penthouse. And it was just like, they'd even be like, dude, that was just like the craziest fucking experience. Like, what the hell? I love doing shit like that.

3:41:05BubblemanIt's why I made The Melting Point the way I made The Melting Point, if you noticed, Marcel. People kind of were like, why did you make this place so nice? It looks like a jewelry store. And I'm like, because we as cannabis users deserve so nice. We deserve more than Coca-Cola and potato chips, and that's why I opened the raw food, 100% organic, vegan, macrobiotic, Cafe. I thought, that's a good way to go.

3:41:29BubblemanHigh integrity, low profit. Although high integrity, low profit is hard to keep sustainable. I think that that's what you're involved with right now, Marcel. Sort of keeping it high integrity, but flipping that low profit thing into actually, or redefining what profit means.

3:41:48SpeakerRight. I mean, that's essentially what the Sacred Economy is all about, is... Defining profit as propagating abundance rather than accumulating it.

3:41:58BubblemanDude, that is a brilliant fucking statement. That's a quote.

3:42:04SpeakerWhat was it?

3:42:05BubblemanYou just said it.

3:42:09SpeakerWell, yeah, I mean, just the mentality of propagating abundance. I mean, I think about it every day, you know, like how can I be more productive, you know, and I... You know, it's really easy for me to wake up and think this way because I know in my heart that 10 years from now, everyone will be. And that's the reality is like this is the paradigm shift that is happening is people will realize that everyone having everything that they want is not only possible but highly desirable.

3:42:46BubblemanExactly. And you know what? That is almost the burden sometimes of that pioneer who has that perspective that the rest of the people don't really have right away. And the pioneer is kind of like, they just see it like it's clear as day. And people are like, are you fucking crazy? And it's just like, talk to me in 10 years, man. Talk to me in 10 years.

3:43:10BubblemanTrust me, the first time I told people to put weed into water and ice, the fucking looks that people were giving me, they were just literally like, is this fucking guy serious?

3:43:21SpeakerThis guy's gonna ruin our weed, man, look at this shit.

3:43:24BubblemanI've heard this stupid shit before, but that's the top of the stupid shit pile, and it's funny because... Literally, when months later the butane method was released, people didn't even question that shit. They questioned putting their buds in water, but when it was a petrochemical that they were spraying over top of their plant, it was just like, dude, that shit caught like wildfire. Butane was definitely, maybe is, I can't say that it is or isn't, probably is, I would say.

3:43:52BubblemanThank you for watching.

3:44:07BubblemanYou know, those extracts, so that's a good thing. And it's also going to teach them about other types of extracts and people that started with BHO, graduated or moved on to different things. They might be doing propane or some other CO2 or the delimiting extract trying to get on Horatio's boat or using water or doing dry sift. It's all just... If it gets you into it and you're geeking out on it, I think it's great.

3:44:33BubblemanMy only ever problem with BHO was that young, stupid people were burning themselves and blowing up, and I just thought that that was a terrible travesty and a shame to be a part of our community. But I certainly don't blame the petrochemical butane. If people want to use butane, I mean, hey, it's come a long way. Let's just say that.

3:44:59SpeakerYeah. It sure is good. Good for everyone.

3:45:05BubblemanIt's good for everyone. It's beautiful to see how much our community has grown. And I love the fact that the glass community has always stayed in parallel, if not in conjunction with the cannabis community. Even though, you know, for a long time, you know, even still to this day, there are glassblowers that I know and respect that are like, they don't want nothing to do with being on camera puffing.

3:45:28BubblemanYou know what I mean? They live in like non-med friendly places and they're still in a place where it's like, no, I can't fucking, I can't do that. Whereas it's like, they still stand next to the industry. You have never turned your back on the obvious importance of the cannabis community in conjunction with the glass community.

3:45:50SpeakerAbsolutely. I mean, it's unmistakably linked. I mean, if you're, you know, being... The guy selling the most expensive pieces for quite a few years, like it's clear that the people who, you know, we're all, part of why I think it's even hopeful to put my work into this system is because we're all pretty much doing it already. And as a community, like, it's all... It's just awesome.

3:46:19SpeakerLike when people make knowledge and create it, it's so much value is created in this like teamwork of like brainstorming out the best methods and stuff because you're doing what big pharma can't do, you know. No one has the resources to hire a lab to like do all the tests that you guys do on a weekly basis. It's like, you know, this is the future. It's awesome.

3:46:45BubblemanYeah, it really is. It's an interesting concept, too, because it's almost like turning around a negative, which is that sort of fame aspect. You know, you've got, like, there are people that want to know you because you're Marcel Braun. Not because they even know anything about your glass maybe, but they just know that people know about your glass, and that to them makes them want to know who you are, or, oh yeah, I know Marcel, or I met Marcel, or I have a Marcel piece, and it's just like, I've always myself kind of not liked that aspect of like, oh yeah, Bubble Man, and this hash church, and the bubble bags, and oh, you're this, and you're that, and I'm like, no, dude, I'm like just a human being that's, I can be an asshole and I have faults and I'm like, don't put me up on any fucking pedestal.

3:47:28BubblemanBut I see that you are using that energy the same way I'm trying to, rather than for my own personal gain, to create a radical openness of open dialogue and get people communicating and talking about things that, you know, like really listening and hearing what people are saying and their thoughts, you know, like we're not just talking complete and total shit. Today, some of the things you said Hit chords with me, Marcel.

3:47:53BubblemanSome of the quotes and some of the things you said, and I'll admit, the first time you explained this currency to me, I honestly got about 3% of it. And I had a long conversation with Flav afterwards about it. I was just like, man, holy shit, Marcel is like 10 or 15 years. I'm usually in the future myself. I've always been way ahead of myself in everything that I've usually done, but With that one, I was just, and Breeders Steve's in the same boat.

3:48:23BubblemanI hope you got in touch with him because I'm telling you, between you and him, you could really gain both valuable insights. Steve is like, Thank you.

3:48:51BubblemanIt'd be great to see your coins get into that as well because once you can get into that and show, even if you had to trick them almost and they didn't understand the spiritual ramifications, but they understood the value of the art and they just saw it as, oh, these are millefioris and they have value and there's art world and yeah, we can trade those for like empty hotel rooms and advertising and magazines and you know what I mean?

3:49:14BubblemanAnd those trade, you can get anything in those trade networks. It opens up a world. Beyond just glass art or any bubble bags or the few people in your community that might allow to take these coins, if you can get them traded for different values on those trade networks, you basically have accomplished what you're trying to do.

3:49:35SpeakerYeah, I mean, any way we can hold value. You know, one of the main things we're trying to accomplish is to show the value, like, Thank you. Thank you.

3:50:07SpeakerYou know, that's what I'm hoping to see and document over the next year is just that accumulation of... Because each token that's created is essentially like capital investment in the sacred economy. So it's creating an actual measurable economy that you could just like say, oh, it's this much exactly, and it's circulating within itself. So... You know, if we create a million or a million and a half dollars worth of tokens, like, all that will accumulate and there will be, you know, evidence of that all throughout our community.

3:50:47SpeakerAnd as that happens, it's, that's the beauty of it, you know. So. Awesome.

3:50:59BubblemanBeautiful. We're rolling.

3:51:05SpeakerIt's Hash Church. It's really a difficult, I find it to be a really difficult concept to talk about because it's so simple, but the ramifications of it, if you totally accept it, are really wide reaching and it's difficult to like think about. In that like wide reaching way because it's the same as when you like really take the time to understand this default system that we're operating in.

3:51:31SpeakerIt's so simple and so basically wrong that it's like you immediately push it out of your mind like, oh, I can't look at this. You know, it's too bad to be true. It can't possibly be true. This works for me today. You know, and this is the same way but on the other side of the spectrum. It just seems ridiculous. But at the Every time we think about it, it just seems to, it works.

3:51:58SpeakerBut it only works on participation.

3:52:02BubblemanWell, that's good. We need more participation in the world.

3:52:06Etienne FontanYeah, absolutely.

3:52:08BubblemanGet involved, people. Hey, Todd, did you want to talk a little bit about the Emerald Cup now that Tony's like at the Emerald Cup and like literally showing everyone and dabbing and

3:52:20SpeakerWell, you know, it's pretty cool. I mean, I was sitting here while we were talking, watching them, and when I stumbled upon the Harborside booth and saw him standing there with his D-nail, it was pretty magical. The amount of openness that's going on, they set people up in like the stables. Dougie was from Hitman, was calling it the Cow Palace, probably correctly, but it was really nice because people were just You know, jars and jars of cannabis and openly, you know, dare I say, you know, trading, sharing, experiencing cannabis on almost a Walmart level and, you know, it ain't Walmart but there are just jars upon jars and slabs and butter everywhere, you know, Tony serving terpenes to you and it's a really surreal experience that I think almost is happening in a way that it's like A test bed because I really think that it's great that Sonoma County, an area known for wine, so they've done things where they've allowed people to go in and taste wine and get all drunk and enjoy themselves, basically just honoring nature and now allowing us to do this with cannabis is fantastic.

3:53:40SpeakerLook at this. People are just really walking up, smelling, smoking. Experiencing with no real, there's no paranoia, you know, there's no, like in Holland, a five gram limit where there are cops waiting to search your bag for, you know, but they're not allowing glass jars in because they're being safe hippies, so now the complaint is you can bring in your pot, you just gotta bring in a plastic jug, so it's funny how people are having to adjust to this new paradigm of freedom, but.

3:54:10BubblemanI just want to comment on how big those terpene vials are. Those aren't even vials. They're bloody. Did you see what he's got the terpenes in on the table there?

3:54:22SpeakerI did not. When I showed up, he was getting ready to leave, so we walked together, but it's fantastic what they're doing. People are experiencing the taste and flavor of cannabis. In a sense, on a whole new level.

3:54:36BubblemanYeah, look at all those turp-happy smiles. That one dude with the long hair definitely just took a turp forever.

3:54:42SpeakerHey, Jeremy's been, you know, it's an interesting thing because, you know, Tim Blake and Area 101, when the Secret Cup went up to Northern California, they did what would be unexpected in a business sense. They helped another competition come into their community and hold their event. I mean, you know, we joked, I mean, You know, usually, you know, high times and turf, they're not so friendly if you want to come in and throw a party in their house.

3:55:09SpeakerAnd for Tim, Blake, and the people at Area 111 to basically be so supportive of the Secret Cup really shows what kind of people they are, I think. And, you know, Jeremy has been, you know, if Jeremy could talk a little about the Emerald Cup and his experience, I would love to hear it. Yeah, Tim was really cool. It was the first time I actually met them was for our NorCal Cup.

3:55:33SpeakerLast year, and that actually gave birth to our Camping Cup, which has become my favorite event that we do. And we were having really a lot of trouble finding a venue in Oakland or San Francisco or anywhere in the Bay. And I went to the High Times locations and they were telling me about how High Times had done a couple events at this place. And it was a great place, but it had Upset the dispensaries in the area and that was it.

3:56:06SpeakerThey weren't going to be able to do the show there anymore. And all the venues that we approached were not really interested in doing the Seeker Cup. And it looked really like we were not going to have a NorCal event at all. And I had actually gotten a message from someone at Tim's place, Area 101, one of the caretakers or somebody that worked there. And they said, hey, you know, Tim wasn't around.

3:56:36SpeakerHe was fishing or on the mountain or doing something. But he would be back, and when he got back, they thought that it would be a possible place to do our show. And when he had approached me, I thought, okay, we don't have enough time to wait for that. I'm going to try and find another place. And I forgot about it. And I wasn't able to find a place in just a few, like maybe about a month or so before, We were planning to do the show.

3:57:04SpeakerThey contacted me. And they said, yeah, come up. Do it at Area 101 where they had originated the Emerald Cup. I think they did eight Emerald Cups there before it got too big and they had to move on. And I had actually seen it so many times driving up to Humboldt and driving up north and I never realized what it actually was. We did the show there.

3:57:30SpeakerIt was really incredible. His whole staff was our staff. So they came to us and they were like, yeah, we can even help you do everything about the event. We did the security. They did the registration. They put up all the canopies. They went over and above to help us. And we used them again for the next event. We actually maxed out their area our very first show.

3:58:02SpeakerAnd so we had to move to another place in Trinity. And it's an even more amazing location. But part of what makes it work is the spirit of those people that put on the Emerald Cup. They were really, really amazing and gracious to us. Tim is super awesome and nice. And when I see him at the Cup, He's really, really friendly. We talked about that they added oil this time.

3:58:28SpeakerWe had actually talked about helping him with that if he ever needed to because there's such a stigma on BHO up in NorCal. I told him there's various ways that we could do it where we could minimize the problems that he would be facing and They've added it this year, but it seemed like talking to him that they might want a little help with that, and they want to bring in the glass.

3:58:57SpeakerSo that's something that we've been really blessed with, with my relationships with all the people that I'm lucky to know, and they're all so gracious and anxious to spread their work. For me, glass is the art that I find most appealing too. I love art in general. But I have a special connection to glass. It has like a visual stimulation to me that's like it's almost beyond just visual.

3:59:34SpeakerIt makes it a physical feeling too. And then certain pieces that become yours, they go with you and they share experiences with you in all these other places and they can like sometimes carry those memories with you. So When you're using them, it's a really incredible thing. I think Tim sees that as an amazing thing, too, that they're missing currently at their show, so they'd like to have glass-blowing demos live, and they'd like to encompass that, too.

4:00:09SpeakerThat event is my favorite event right now. I think it's the best event that's out there that really incorporates all the things That I think are wonderful about cannabis. It does tend to be kind of grower oriented up there. And since they are like up in NorCal, they all come from further up north. So it coming down to Santa Rosa is making it a little different. But they all are like deep, deep rooted farmers from up in the mountains and the forests.

4:00:43SpeakerSo it carries that still. And But it's also incorporating all the new mainstream cutting edge stuff that is going on with cannabis and they're adapting with the changing times. I really like Tim. I know you know Tim too. He's just such a really nice guy. I'm really happy for them and their whole family. Yeah, real community vibe up there. You know, everyone coming together. It is what I think the rest of the world will look more like when they've had cannabis as part of their community the way that Norman, California has been both fortunate and unfortunately had.

4:01:25SpeakerI mean, because it's obviously been a mixed feeling, you know, innovating and being on the edge of, You know, our freedoms, but at the same time, you know, having them hunt us down and run up into our homes and fucking fly over us with helicopters and the whole scene is, it's changing. And to see these people coming out and off the mountain and, you know, kind of being so bold and brazen, I, you know, I can only optimistically feel like that's what the future will look like for us all.

4:01:55SpeakerSo if anyone's listening and hasn't been in the Emerald Cup, I highly recommend it. I say support it next year. Check it out. It's awesome. It's really the community is what you're going to find is so incredible.

4:02:08SpeakerAgreed. You know, Tim and them have something special up there and you know, it's I know it was really a small event for a long time and then all of a sudden it's just kind of exploded and become this this big And a lot of people are attending. So I'm really happy for them. It's a difficult thing to deal with the expansion. And I thought they're dealing with it pretty well.

4:02:36SpeakerI think as they get more used to the size that it's at now, it'll even become better. But so many of the cool things they were doing, I really liked. And that display that they've got is awesome, you know. Where they put all the bud out there and all the hash and you can see it. I think that's so great. I wish that they had had that at high times, you know.

4:03:01SpeakerWell, we couldn't. You know, at high times they weren't allowed to display that much cannabis in one place. In places like Amsterdam they would shake us down for no five gram limits. I mean, I personally watched cops walk into the cannabis expo when we were doing it at the marina there and literally go and shake down booths. I mean, looking for excess cannabis. It Really kind of sucked.

4:03:22SpeakerI mean, I think Mark's been one of the ones shaking down.

4:03:24BubblemanThey started with me both years in a row. I was first to be searched and there was kind of like a bit of an ongoing joke about it. It's like, especially because my booth was never even in a spot where you would, they walked in the door past like 80% of the booths and went right to mine both years.

4:03:46BubblemanAnd I remember standing there with Doug from Hemp Works and him and Hoodlum and him just being like, It's like, damn, dude, they got their eye on you. And he's like, I'm so glad I don't have anything. We made sure that we didn't have anything over the limits because he lives there and he's not a dummy. And then I'm like, oh, dude, you know that American dude visiting who was on acid earlier?

4:04:07BubblemanI'm pretty sure I saw him stash some shit behind your booth right before these cops came in the door. And so Doug's standing there super confident with me, all of a sudden loses all confidence and is like, what? And fucked if the cop didn't, right after he searched me, went and searched their booth, Hemp Works, Hoodlum, and went to behind the booth where all the jackets were and pulled out this giant fucking, I'd never seen one before, you know the little ones where you push the button and then you pop it off?

4:04:35BubblemanHe had a huge fucking one and it was full of weed. Well the cop, for about ten fucking minutes, Yanked on this thing and he would get the lid like halfway up and then it would just suck back down and he couldn't fucking figure out for the life of him. In fact his superior officer came over and said something in Dutch to him and pushed the button and then he opened it and man after he opened that because another thing is once what they did was they came in and they didn't just shake everyone down they fucking put people a tax man and a cop Thank you for watching.

4:05:29BubblemanBut a lot of people weren't and what we noticed was the amount of smell that came out of that fucking, I wish I could remember what weed it was because I think he even won like a cup with it that year. It was really nice weed. They were from Colorado and the dude was on acid and he stashed that weed and Doug, Doug definitely, I mean he took the charge.

4:05:47BubblemanI think he might, I think two years later he got off but it was definitely a pain in his ass. He took it like a champion too, like no complaining, no flipping out, no losing his shit, just being the class act that Doug has always been.

4:06:05BubblemanDerbs, looks like things are getting pretty heated up at the Terp booth. They've each got their Terp. He must have like 500 milliliters of fucking terpenes on that booth.

4:06:20BubblemanHere's something for you guys that might not hit terpenes on the regular. Once you hit terpenes through your pipe, I swear to God your pipe gets like one-tenth less dirty. Like claim just doesn't stick to it at all. It's like you, it's just, it's super trippy. We noticed that after the Jamaica Cup where we dabbed out like at least a thousand, maybe a couple thousand people over the course of the three days, And we didn't, the pipes were like, they just took a tiny little bit of iso with a little swoosh swoosh and dumped and they were clean.

4:06:58BubblemanPretty crazy.

4:07:03BubblemanQuiet. You have nothing to say? Nobody?

4:07:08SpeakerWell, man, I think it's been fun. I think I'm going to head off.

4:07:11BubblemanWell, it's past one.

4:07:12SpeakerI think that's a good idea, Todd. It was a great hash stretch, actually. It was super nice talking to everybody. Jeremy, thank you so much for being here.

4:07:23BubblemanYes, thank you. Thank you for coming and sharing your stories with us, Jeremy. Always support what you're doing with those secret cups. It's good shit for sure, and it's always like a good... If Todd likes it, it's usually a pretty good idea that it's probably going to have some quality aspect to it, and... And there's going to be some substance to it, so I usually have pretty good faith in something Todd likes, and that's why I was glad that I came to the event.

4:07:50BubblemanSo thank you everyone, ATN, Horatio, of course, Marcel, and Jen, and Nick, and Jessica, and Tony Terpine, and Todd McCormick, and people that came and left, Darren, and RIP to Andrew, and for all of you watching out in... The world. Thanks. Thanks for spending your time with us. We appreciate it. And we will see you next week for episode 65. Peace out, everybody.