Full Melt and Rosin Discussion

0:02BubblemanHey, everybody. Welcome to Hash Church episode. Oh, which one is it? It said 64 in the comments. It said 66 in the title. But actually, it's neither or nor. It is episode 65. We have been at this for 65 weeks, people, if you can believe it. It's... Pretty mind-blowing, but here we are, 65 weeks later. Hash Church is still going and still a success in my opinion.

0:28BubblemanWe've got a great group of people that come and share their time with us, which is obviously something that we are very happy about. Hash Church wouldn't be Hash Church without you, the people, in the chat. So I'm going to send off our emails for the day, and I will send off our Facebook invitationals. And we'll see what's going on. We'll see who's coming in. We do have a few different people today that I've invited in.

0:55BubblemanI just sent an email out which will have Alec from SC Labs hopefully getting on the board at one point in time today. I also invited Smash Extracts who's always in our chat and has not been here into the actual panel yet. And then a whole bunch of other wonderful people, regulars. Hopefully DNA gets a chance to come in today and some other folks. Welcome, Etienne and Mark Scaldone.

1:23BubblemanWelcome, Robert. Mr. Bobby Nuggs, you made it. Hell yeah. Good morning, guys. That was easy, representing the East Coast. We got Mr. Bobby Nuggs in the house. Hey, everybody. Awesome, yeah. Etienne and Mark Scaldone will come and go a few times before his thing gets going, but... That's pretty quick, Rob. Coming in as fast as Etienne is never a bad sign because Etienne is always there to help me, to save me from yammering on by myself.

1:57BubblemanHe's like, boom, in the room.

1:58EtienneThat's cool. You've got to make sure we're all aware that we're here.

2:03BubblemanYes, it is Sunday morning at 9 o'clock a.m. Although on the East Coast, I guess it's around noon your time? Yes, sir. Awesome. Well, I think we're going to have a good church today. I'm feeling pretty good about it. I talked to Alec from SC Labs, and he said he was stoked to make an appearance and come talk about testing and come talk about microbials. I guess they've got some pretty good information that Mark Scaldone will, of course, also be aware of.

2:33BubblemanBut just the thing that you were mentioning last week, Mark, over and over again, that There are microbials that could set off a microbial test that are symbiotic microbials with the plant, not actual molds and funguses that are negative to the end user. So I love the idea of getting into that conversation in a little bit here once we've got SC Labs representing. Well, they're so diverse, they have their own kingdom, those fungi.

3:05BubblemanDude, I love fungi, man. Are you kidding me? Yeah, yeah.

3:08SpeakerGood morning, everyone.

3:09BubblemanHow are you? Very, very good. Heavy Micro Grow was like, he says, is the beard new, Bobby? I don't remember you having a beard.

3:19SpeakerI've never had a beard. Nope, it's new. It's wintertime out here, guys. We're about to get a lot of snow, so I'm hibernating a little bit.

3:26BubblemanThat's cool. You and Mark are representing the beard nation. Etienne and myself are representing the shaved recently nation.

3:37BubblemanAlthough, Etienne's got that little bit right there. He's hiding it. He's like, if he wants to have a beard, he just kind of has to change his perspective a little bit. And then it's like, well, that guy has a beard.

3:47EtienneIt gets too furry for me. I get all itchy. This just covers up my scars under my chin, so it's just easier that way.

3:54BubblemanYes. Hey, that's a good idea right there. Nice that you can have hair to grow where you can cover up your scars. I've got some pretty nasty scars myself. And unfortunately, hair does not grow in the places where my scars are to cover them, but that's okay. I wear my scars proudly for all the stupid shit that I did in my life.

4:14EtienneYou shaved your face. You got done being outside in the snow for a bit?

4:19BubblemanNo, you know, my wife really appreciates a shaved face, and I forget. I just, you know, I get busy, and I do my life, and then I realize, oh, shit, I have this beard, and it's not something she really appreciates. It's not like she harps on me for it, but I just would like to go out of my way and make my wife happy as often as possible, so a quick, easy shave is a really great way to do that, and it generally gets her hands on my face sooner, so that's not a bad thing either.

4:47EtienneBut the snow is colder. The snow is colder.

4:51BubblemanMan, I'll tell you, the last time I went up, it was like snowing while I was on my sled, and it was going into my helmet, and just my whole front of my mouth was literally like frozen. So, if D420K was in the link, I think he's in the chat room right now, he would be saying, bong rip, and we would be having... Bong rip.

5:15EtienneHe wouldn't just say bong rip. Yes, bong rip. Just this nice little bong rip. No. Big fat bong rip. We need you, D. Where are you?

5:27BubblemanD! He's in the chat. He's holding it down. I did send him. You know what? I sent the link out to like 25 people today, so I think we're going to have a busy room. Let's enjoy it while it's quiet in here because it is going to be busy. I swear sometimes people don't get the link too. I send the link via the same one that you and Etienne and all three of you guys came in on the link that I sent.

5:54BubblemanBut I find I usually have to go back into Facebook and send individual links to get the people to actually come in. Now I don't know if I'm just jumping the gun and they haven't had a shower or a shit or a shave yet and they're just kind of taking their time and I'm all like impatient bubble man who's been up for four hours. Come on guys, let's get this started.

6:11BubblemanWho knows?

6:14SpeakerEither way, I'm going to hit it.

6:15EtienneHere's your bong rip.

6:17SpeakerI'd say that's important, staying on top of the game with all this. You've got to keep track of a lot of different people and stuff like that.

6:23BubblemanDude, and then I literally just sent the link to D420K, and he's saying, I didn't get the link. It's like, really? Because I sent it to you and like 13 other people. But that's cool. I'll just go and figure this out and go back into this room and invite all these people individually. It only takes a little bit of time.

6:47SpeakerI'll make it work. Yeah, I didn't get it a couple weeks ago for some reason, too. Yeah, I just sent it out and it doesn't happen. It's the Facebook gods.

6:58EtienneIt is the Facebook gods. It is the Facebook gods. Here we go. Here we go.

7:04BubblemanWell, who else did we send it to? I know Tony and Horatio are always in. Tony, I'll send it to you.

7:11EtienneHey, B-Man, did we get any response regarding the Facebook page and why it was shut down as opposed to, and if it's going to continue going, have you got a response back from Facebook or are we potentially going to be shut down again?

7:22BubblemanNo, they never said shit to us, so I just continue on. I've sort of forgotten about...

7:28EtienneI know shit now as opposed to...

7:31BubblemanSorry. What was I saying? No, I just continued on and they never sent me anything back. Hash Church Group is gone. The new one is getting close to 2,000 people. I think the old one had about 5,000 people, so I don't think it'll be very hard to get 5,000 people joined up in the Hash Church Group. I know it is unfortunate that the information is passed on, but...

7:57BubblemanWell, that just means we get to send it all again. We get to post it all up again. It's unfortunate that Facebook likes to do that, but yeah, they didn't even get back to me, Cuban. I'm looking at Cuban writing in the chat room. ATN. They didn't even get back to me. Which is insane because I see them getting back to people. I see pages getting put back up and I saw the Strain Hunters lost their Instagram and then I went on the other day and they have their old Instagram, 196,000 followers.

8:24BubblemanSo somehow, somehow people are getting their accounts back. Instagram, of course, being owned by Facebook. That's why I use that example.

8:37EtienneOkay, so that is closed. So people, save the articles if you're able to and post articles on Hash Church on the Facebook page if they haven't reappeared and you want to see them again. And we will. We're going to go back a bit, thinking that they were going to potentially put the page back up.

8:52BubblemanI thought so 100%, dude. Honestly, I was very surprised that they didn't at least acknowledge my existence there.

9:01BubblemanWhere it's like, you know, like, just send me an email back saying, hey, bro, like, you know what? We're not going to do that. Okay, well, at least I know that you saw this message, but the whole just ignore me and hope that I go away, well, that's not going to work because I won't go away. I will terp up my hash and I will calm her down.

9:21EtienneWhat's that? What's your flavor of your terps in your hash?

9:25BubblemanWell, I'm hitting a little sour. A little sour. I'm going to get that. Sour, a little sour, sour, and then the hash that I'm hitting is this wonderful purple candy. I wish my camera could, there we go. What's the lineage on that? You know what, I'm not too sure of what the lineage, I suspect it's a purple cush crossed with something else. Very nice, it's very cushy, it's something to be used to if you're from Vancouver.

9:55BubblemanNine out of ten times if someone has something really melty and awesome. It's going to be some cush of some sort of another. It's more of a rarity to get, you know, the gift of like the Congolese or the sweet skunk full melt. It takes longer to flower and it's just that more special profile that people are eager to hang on to. Yeah, the hammer, you like that?

10:15BubblemanA little ice pick from Pukin Beagle and the doghouse, which is a little bit dirty right now, but I'll tell you, it tastes so good.

10:23SpeakerIs it bong rip time for everyone? The whole nation? Let's fucking do her. Ball rip. Come on. I've been waiting for this one. I got a little barbed fucking sift rosin. Rosin made from the sift. Fucking killer. 73 you. Ha ha ha.

10:52BubblemanAnother cold, wet day in the PNW. Yeah, dude, that's why we live here, bro, because we are mountain people. If you just live down on the bottom of the mountain, rain will depress you. But if you go up to the top of the mountain where the rain is snow, holy shit, rain will inspire you because rain is fluffy white snow that you can ride down on on planks or a plank or a machine.

11:17BubblemanAnd yes, it's my favorite thing to do pretty much in the world.

11:22EtienneYeah, we got rain happening here in Northern California today, which is, love it, need more of it, always appreciate it.

11:28BubblemanYeah, you guys need the rain as bad, we also did the same thing, we ran out of all of our stored water, literally ran it dry, and it was like they did the math where they were like, it would have to rain like 30 centimeters a day, every day for the next year and a half to fill those reserves up. And, you know, surprisingly, it's pretty much been doing it.

11:51BubblemanIt has been puking here in B.C., at least on the full west coast. Which is great.

12:02BubblemanWhat's that?

12:03EtienneI was asking D, what is he smoking on?

12:10SpeakerWell, I had a little bit of dry sift, barb, that I rosined. That I just smoked the first rip and the second rip was some dry sift OG 73 screen that I took really nice and clean, probably to about 85% heads and then rosin that. I kind of shouldn't have done it, but I did it and I liked it.

12:34BubblemanWell, you know rosin in 85% heads is a lot easier than cleaning that last 15%. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that had a lot to do with it.

12:43SpeakerYeah, fucking rates, man.

12:45BubblemanAny drive sifter knows that it's just so much work. I mean, when I first showed John how to make the 99, he still, for one full year, only made it 90. And I would always look under the microscope and be like, dude, like, you're so close. And he's like, yeah, but like, man, that last few percent seems to take forever. It's like, yeah.

13:09EtienneWhat did you use to squish it, Darren?

13:12SpeakerPardon me?

13:13EtienneWhat did you use to squish it? Did you use a straightener or a...

13:17SpeakerI used Bubble Man's denail press that he lent me. And when he went to Jamaica, he lent that to me and I brought it up to Prince George and had a fucking rosin fucking pressing festival in my shop. It was fucking awesome, man.

13:32EtienneWhat temperature were you pressing at?

13:35SpeakerI believe it was 120 or something like that. That was the... I didn't change any of the numbers or nothing. I figured he had it dialed in right proper. But with that 90%, 90% heads, getting that last little bit clean is really hard. But, you know, it's really rewarding, though, too. When I got to that spot of doing the parchment paper, static tech, and I had a nice pile of real clean heads of 93% even, 94%, and I was just like, well, let's Maybe I'll push this over the screen once more with the parchment paper static trick.

14:15SpeakerAnd I got a cleaner. And when I took a toke of that, the first toke I took of that 99% heads was almost like I got religious experience or something. I literally stopped in my shop. I exhaled my toke. And I looked around and I just said, thank you. Whoever brought this to this planet, whoever gave us this, whoever you are, whatever it is, God or Satan or whoever the fuck he's called, I said thank you very much for doing this.

14:43SpeakerI had a little weed fucking hash moment, man. It was awesome. That's what happened on my 99% experience. So when I can take it to that level, I will for sure. But that's Percy. That's Percy only and close good bro. It's good to try that. Good.

15:00BubblemanIt's why, you know what, last time I spoke in Amsterdam at the Cannabis Cup, I asked the room, I was like, who has, you know, BHO, and like everyone put their hand up. No, I asked who had Herb, everyone put their hand up. Who had BHO, fuck, a lot of people put their hand up. Who had Full Melt Water Hash, way less people put their hand up.

15:21BubblemanWho has Full Melt Dry Sift? And it was like, I think it was Skunk Man Sam in the background with his hand up and only him with his hand up. And it was literally like, I was like, until this changes, we still have a long road to go. And it's that same energy that has people not wanting to clean that last little bit. They're kind of like, oh, is it really that important?

15:45BubblemanIt's like, I swear it is. It's that important. There's this curve, and it's exponential. And if you're down here, from here to here on the curve is very little, but when you get up into the point where the curve is now pointing upwards, man, you climb fast on that.

16:02EtienneWell, it's the difference between a sketch and art. It's true. You either stick with the sketch, or you can make it art.

16:09BubblemanGreat metaphor, Etienne. Really nice timing on that one. I appreciate that.

16:15SpeakerI agree, too. It is an art when it gets to that level. When I smoked it with Mark and John for the first time, I was always the bubble hash guy, and Mark showed me that, and I was always loving that. Then I came and I met John, and with Mark there, and I seen this little dry sift go in the bowl, and all of a sudden it just turned into liquid, and I was like, holy shit, what's that?

16:40SpeakerIt got me so high right off the bat that I was almost like... Thank you for watching.

17:06BubblemanThank you for showing up guys. We appreciate it. Thanks guys.

17:35BubblemanAnd someone said to me they want me to stop calling non-glandular plant matter contamination. I do apologize. I would call, you know, the resin would be contamination if what I was talking about was acquiring seed oil or cellulose or fiber. It just happens to be that we're talking about the medicinal compounds, not the essential amino acid medicines, but the phytocannabinoids and the terpene medicines. And so when I discuss those two things, everything else to me becomes a contaminant because that's really what it would be doing in that resin.

18:12BubblemanIt would be contaminating.

18:13EtienneAnd what you're explaining is proper nomenclature, but I think that the person is bringing up a good point is that maybe our nomenclature could be Thank you for joining us.

18:40SpeakerIt's just defining the stuff we don't want there. If our goal is cannabinoids and terpenes and there are non-glandulous heads there or pieces of leaf material, that is not complementing what we're trying to do. It is a contaminant in what we're trying to do. It's not a bad thing, but it's just not what we want in what we're doing. It's all good.

19:02BubblemanLet's get the discussion going now. What if… And this is something that I've been thinking about a lot, because C-Ray brought it up just now in the chat, and he said, rosin is full of contaminant plant waxes. And so I'm thinking, and I've been thinking about this for a while, people are like, how much do you love the rosin? And I'm like, well, for me, rosin is in third.

19:23BubblemanI prefer full melt bubble and full melt dry sift. I feel that it's this more whole, I hear people tell me this all the time when they smoke cannabis, and I'm like, oh, okay, well, yeah, if you get a more fuller experience from it, I can't take that away from you. I seem to get a more fuller experience from The one thing that's missing from the oil, which is what C-Ray just mentioned, these plant wax contaminants, but I'm wondering if people understand the inside matrix of the trichome, and you've got that cuticle, that wax membrane, which is attached to a fibrous mat inside where the cannabinoids are cooked into effect, perhaps that fibrous mat is also going with the waxes, right?

20:05BubblemanThank you for watching.

20:31BubblemanWe know that there are plastids and these organovacuoles and that they're filled with these different compounds that are producing with the help of the sunlight all of the cannabinoids and the terpenes that we love. So I'm just wondering when you're de-waxing, when you're getting rid of that fibrous mat, Is that something the hash smoker loves? Is that why there's a difference between oil and hash? I'm very much like an old school like Sam and Rob in the sense where I just like to call oil, oil.

21:01BubblemanI call rosin, oil. I don't call it that as like saying you're a bad, you're bad, you're oil. It's like no, it's oil, it's great, it's oil. Hash to me is just different. And I wonder if it's really that one difference that is making the difference, that fibrous mat attached to the wax membrane. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

21:22SpeakerIf you ever do an ethanol extraction and you ever, basically, there's no chance that the cannabinoid acids are going to hold up to the solvating power of ethanol. Ethanol, there's just no match. Ethanol can, We're going to go ahead and get started in just a few minutes. We're going to go ahead and get started in just a few minutes.

22:05SpeakerIt's a light brown, gritty almost material, and it's the waxes. It's what didn't go in the solution with the alcohol. And so if you look at this material, again, if you look at it under the microscope or if you look at it very close up, it looks just like cash. It's blonde in color. It certainly looks very waxy. It's totally wax soluble, so if you take it and you You've got to either dissolve it with like an oil or like hexane.

22:36SpeakerIt'll completely dissolve. But it's not soluble in alcohol where the cannabinoid acids are. So whenever you do an alcohol extraction, you're basically stripping all the cannabinoids out. And what you're leaving is basically the empty purse that you just fleeced. So this empty purse is, yeah, a bunch of waxy components that This stuff almost feels gritty. It feels almost like it has a grit to it. But it's high molecular weight stuff that doesn't go into solution in alcohol.

23:06SpeakerAnd I think once you do an extraction, whether you're doing it with butane or any type of extraction, even if using butter or oil, you are going to bring some of those waxy components off of the plant. And it all really depends. And I think what the data suggests is it really suggests Thank you so much for joining us.

23:48SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

24:13SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

24:39SpeakerYeah, I mean, I think, again, there very well could be. You can look at those extracts in ways that now give us a very high degree of resolution as to what chemical basis there may be for their differentiation. I mean, why they feel different, why they taste different, why they might, you know, again, have different shelf life or have different efficacy against different medical conditions is all going to be a function of what's coming off the nail and what's being vaporized.

25:10SpeakerTrue enough.

25:11BubblemanWelcome Cuban into the room as well as Marcel and Horatio. Wow, we filled up pretty early today, guys.

25:21CubanAll right. I was curious about the full melt dry sift because you guys were just talking about the waxes that get carried into the stuff. Have you thought of doing a rosin press on some Like full melt dry sift where you've agreed that it's totally clean and then you rosinate to see if the heat and pressure is removing the waxy chemicals that you're wondering about being the missing ingredient in the oil.

25:53BubblemanI'm sorry, I was reading the chat. Can you repeat?

25:57CubanI was just asking you if Doing a rosin press on some established, clean, full-melt dry sift would allow you to kind of see if the rosin process was changing the compounds psychoactively.

26:12BubblemanWell, it's hard to say because I'll tell you this much. When I have rosin and full melt, whether it's dry sift or bubble hash, you know, like I've actually taken that material and made some rosin with it, I've had that quite a few times where I can test the two, and that's really what got me to the point where whatever the rosin is missing, now it's weird because it's almost like a filter too in the sense that the rosin is this really hard, fast-hitting material.

26:39BubblemanResin. Whereas my bubble hash, it still hits me hard and fast but differently and it's more fulfilling to how I enjoy whatever it is I get out of cannabis. I mean it's a multi-dimensional thing. I enjoy it for my mind. I enjoy it the way it relaxes my muscles. So relaxing my mind and relaxing my muscles are two big things I look for when I'm enjoying cannabis.

27:03BubblemanBut then also how it allows me to interact with the work that I have to do, you know, whether it's going to let me sit up here for five hours and pound away at it or if it's going to, you know, send me off into the bush to go snowmobiling for the day.

27:16SpeakerSo there was a really interesting post this week on the Facebook page around a new compound that a French group had identified about a year ago, reported in the literature. Actually, it's not a new compound, but they dubbed it Hashine. Or Hashine or something like that. And it's basically a reactive compound that's actually formed from the thermal degradation of myrcene. And they actually find this in many samples of hash.

27:46SpeakerAnd they found it in a lot of different samples. I don't think they actually looked in rosin. But it's my feeling that the conditions in making rosin, a compound like this is not just going to just hang out and be innocent. It's going to actually polymerize and maybe some of the glassiness and some of the quality that we see in some rosins is because this molecule and other molecules like it are reacting in basically a polymerization and making what are called low molecular weight oligomers which can actually create essentially a new composition that wasn't there Before you did the process and certainly is not there by any other extraction process because you're using a unique way of basically processing the material.

28:40SpeakerSo this is a very reactive molecule and it's not something that is going to hang around and they find it in a lot of different types of hash and flour. It was a really fascinating article. Very cool. And goes along what we've been saying, Mark, which is that these terpenes, when you heat them up, do chemistry, that there's chemistry that happens, and so the ground state is the plant, and that's what you look at by NMR, but as soon as you put it into a GC, or as soon as you do any type of analysis where it's heated up, you totally change the composition of the oils, which is basically validated by this paper.

29:20SpeakerInteresting. That's why Sam the Skunk Man was saying that GC is a More closer to how we actually inhale the stuff, because when we're heating it up and we're getting it in, that's more of what our body's seeing than, you know, when you're going in with gas and you're not distributing it. Right, right, right. But if you were doing it... If you were using it as an oil or a tincture where it's not heated up or it's pre-activated in some other way, yeah.

29:48SpeakerI mean, all of these things are going to be Thank you for joining us today.

30:14BubblemanWell, you wonder if the heat sometimes, you know, people say, oh, if it's too much heat exposed, you'll dissipate all your terpenes. It's like the hottest place I ever went to and watched ganja grow, which was like literally like it would just cook you red, you know, like it was so hot, the sun, it was like close to 40 degrees or something, and the herb was just like drooling terpenes.

30:39BubblemanAnd I wonder...

30:40SpeakerThat's strain. That's varietal. But the thing is that heat loses terpenes. There's no way that the terpenes are not going to evaporate off in an oven under vacuum, which is why initially we were seeing residuals that were higher in the BHO samples when we started doing residuals because people were trying to keep it under the coolest temperatures they could for preparation. For preservation of terpenes. I know people that weren't letting it get over 90 degrees, which is why they had, for instance, neopentane as a residual.

31:13SpeakerBut we learned that, okay, if we purge it over 94 degrees, 94 and a half degrees, we're going to have almost zero residuals because all of those contaminants go away by that point. We're still not wanting to go too high because if you start getting into $1.30, $1.40, you're going to lose terpenes. There's no way around it. You'll purge faster, but you're going to purge away the terpenes with what you're trying to get rid of.

31:38SpeakerThe other thing in the rosin making process is it's a flash process, meaning that something is at room temperature and is heated up extremely rapidly, and it's different kinetics of How the plant material behaves when it's heated extremely rapidly under pressure is completely different than heating it gradually in a different process or heating an extract to purge it. So when you heat it up, and I do believe, Mark, again, this is a steam distillation type process, but I would also say that there could be another mechanism, which is that there could be essentially seepage or leakage of waxes in the process That basically contaminate the rosin that is perhaps the basis of some of this cloudiness that Johnny was seeing in his GC sample.

32:34SpeakerSo again, two mechanisms could exist, which is that insoluble plants and the fats that are on the plant essentially leak in the process, but certainly those molecules aren't big enough to steam distill. The other, again, process is that these other smaller volatile molecules could be making some type of new polymeric or oligomeric material in the more shattery and brittle mechanical properties that we see with some of these rosins.

33:09SpeakerJust something to think about.

33:12BubblemanSomething to think about here on Hash Church. The group's busting out a good conversation and yeah, we filled up pretty early. That's nice to see. There's a room or two. Hopefully Alec can still get in. I think we got one spot right now.

33:27SpeakerYep. Should we do a bong rip? Everybody?

33:30BubblemanShould always do a bong rip.

33:32SpeakerLet's do a bong rip. I'm going to do a barb bonk rosin, a little bit of OG rosin, and then I'm going to do a little dip. And some dry sift. Some 73 OG full melt. So we'll do the trifactor here.

33:53BubblemanAll right. I'll do something along that lines. Maybe a little dry sift, a little rosin, a little... I'll do the Bubble Man Quiver, which is some solventless rosin, some bubble hash, some dry sift, and a drop of... a half a drop of terpenes. That's what I'm doing. It's going to be an insane rip.

34:22BubblemanHow you doing, Cuban?

34:25SpeakerI'm doing good, man. Just starting my morning process. Waiting for my lady to finish heating up the rig. Yo, terpenes are dope, man. I met Tony up at Emerald Cup. Yeah. And I started first with putting drops on the rosin, you know. But I realized it's kind of hard for that stuff to, for the oil to absorb the terpenes. And if it does, it breaks it down like a solvent.

34:50SpeakerYeah, dad. It makes it into a fucking mush, you know. But, so then I just started dabbing it straight on the nail. Getting a drop in studio. Yeah. That shit is awesome. Tony did that to me. So I got the idea from that, right? I tried the Green Dragon. Oh, yeah.

35:09BubblemanWow, bro. Super fucking potent. Yeah, dude. They're no joke. That's for sure. They're definitely enjoyable. They modulate and they uplift high in a way that is very hard to deny. That is for sure.

35:25SpeakerI have not gotten to try it yet. I've been really, really wanting to lately. I don't know why.

35:34BubblemanOh, yes. Yes, C-Ray. Cuban did say it. Terpenes are a natural solvent. This is very, very standard. We've probably talked about it on Hash Church 1. But by all means, please keep repeating the same thing over and over again to get your point across. We do appreciate that in the chat room all the time. And I'm going to hit that rip.

35:54SpeakerHey, you want to hear something funny? So my wife put an Instagram post about the terpenes, right? It was like a meme. It was pretty funny. And then people on there are like, you don't know what pure solvents do to you, man. You can have a solvent overdose. I'm sorry, solvent. A terpene overdose. Terpenes at high levels can be dangerous. My wife is like, yeah, that's the best way to go out.

36:16SpeakerTerpene overdose. You said that? Yeah, hey, man, people say the stupidest shit sometimes on the internet, you know, just because they don't know. Like, hell, man, I put four or five drops on a nail. I don't care. You're dropping hard over there, Cuban. Oh, yeah, I ran out, man. I was already talking to my partner. I'm like, yo, you got some material you want to get made into a vial of terpenes, man?

36:46SpeakerWait, I call it terpene because I hung out with Frenchie a little too long. That's my homeboy. But, yeah, man, I'm going to make myself some terping vials. I'm going to have to fly Tony out here. Absolutely. Work it out one way or the other. Or maybe we'll be flying you the other way. You know what I'm saying?

37:07SpeakerOh, yeah. Terps!

37:12SpeakerHey, Cuban. I've seen some pictures of your sift, man, and I really can't wait to try it out. It looks... It looks like there's no contaminant in it at all. Can you share with us your technique for your routine that you like to take? I do realize that you also grow your own, so you have a relationship with the plant right from the start. So what are the steps you take from the very beginning to help induce better heads and everything from the beginning?

37:47SpeakerI know you do that because I do the same thing, but Is there anything you do that no one else is doing? And what's your steps from the clone stage, buddy? Walk us through. Well, I'll try to do it as good as I can. Well, I mean, genetics, of course, is the major role, you know, having the grow room focused. I learned that the last round. Being, going around the hash tour of the United States is what I call high times, you know what I mean?

38:14SpeakerI kind of let the garden slip. My end result was resin that at certain ranges didn't melt as good, so it kind of killed my game a little bit, you know? So gardening is your number one priority or good material if you're a hash maker. Fuck everything else. Hash comes as a byproduct, you know what I mean? After the fruits are there. Second thing is a proper dry.

38:36SpeakerBut I dry three to four weeks at like 55, never exceeding 60 degrees Fahrenheit and approximately 50 to 60 humidity just to, in my head I think that the material kind of like cures on the line. So I don't have to go through a whole jarring process. It's crazy because the first two weeks it almost feels like the weed stays soft forever on the lines. And it starts to get this crazy chlorophyll smell in the room.

39:07SpeakerBut at the fourth week when you're taking it down, it's just extremely loud. Especially when the trimmers get to it, when I'm trimming packs, it just smells really good. Straight from the vine into the bag and it gets moved. No jarring, none of that shit. I've never been good at carrying. So once that material is good, right, that I'm already trimming my weed, I end up putting the select stuff into...

39:31SpeakerLike a further cure in a room that's dark, holds the same temperature and humidity, you know, 50 to 60, and I keep it in there dark. It was nice because I was talking to Skunkman, and I told him a little bit of how long I wait to dry and cure, and it was in line with what he said, which for me is like two, three months. I don't sift until the material is three months cured because either it has too much oil content on it Or it'll pull the moisture back into it.

40:04SpeakerIt won't separate and clean as easily. Just because of interacting with the resin, it'll start to break down or grease up or whatever the case is. So 24-7, yeah, in dark, 50 to 60 in a room that has a nice airflow, filtration. It's like, you know, I set it up nice just to keep material in there, but it's kind of overflowing at this point because that shit adds up.

40:31SpeakerSo once you're ready to sift, right? Let's say I got my wife five bags of sour, just to give it as an example. I take that sour, and the sour is still soft, right? But you look at it, and no matter how long it's been in there, the heads are still really shiny, no oxidation and degradation in the heads. I take the bags into the dry sift lab, and the dry sift lab is a temperature-controlled, humidity-controlled room.

41:00SpeakerIt has a dry ease dehumidifier and temperatures are like, I like 50. I've noticed colder makes me uncomfortable. As a hash maker, I've got to be in there like an Eskimo and I haven't noticed much of a loss in time and a day of sifting at 50 degrees for the resin. So we start going at it. I hand keef everything. I have a pollinator too or whatever it's called.

41:25SpeakerBut I see that it doesn't give me the same yields of raw keef. That a hand keefing does. Which it makes me wonder also, just to go off topic, about hand stirring with water hash. If a pollinator, if I'm not happy as a dry sift maker, making keefing by hand is preferred for me, right, over machine. Sometimes I wonder how a hand stir does. So I want to learn how to do that.

41:45SpeakerBut anyway, so after we keef, right, I just have a bag, a screen stack in front of me. I like to use the 61 and 86, the 125 and the 180.

41:57SpeakerDepending on, that's like my standard issue share right there. Under the 180, I'll put like a 230 or 196, but a lot of my cleaning, like the separation of the heads from the material, you know what I mean, from contaminant, like what we call it, I do all that refining on the 180. Which is your 90 or your 86? Yeah, like an 85 micron or something like that.

42:21SpeakerThe reason I like my 180 LPI is No, the other one is around 85 LPI, 180. Oh, this is a 180 LPI that I like to refine my stuff on. Like when I have my, after I keef, I do it on a 61, which is like a 230. Yeah. An 86 kind of is like a 160 or something like that. Then my 125.

42:42Bubbleman86 is around, yeah, like 170, 160.

42:45SpeakerYeah, it's like a similar style to like bubble bags. I have then the 125, I think is like a 120. Okay. And what I do is I try to force the keef through, and a lot of green gets left over, but on those, let's say a 125, I bring all that keef down, I realize I got nice heads that stay stuck in the 125, right? So then what we do is we use means to get those heads out, be it static or whatever the case is, just to separate the glandular heads away from the contaminant, and we put it into the mass, right?

43:18SpeakerNow, once we have that pile, that fat pile of, like, 150 grams of like keef, just straight crap, polo, you know, 60% pure. I put it on the 180 and I start giving it what I call the passes, you know what I mean?

43:33BubblemanI use my means to separate... That's about a 90 micron, that 180 you're looking at between, well, even between 74 and 85 micron. I've got the...

43:46BubblemanHere, I'll post it in the chat room. This is the LPI conversion chart. If people just want to go to conversion chart for LPI to Micron, it comes up on my website, Full Melt Bubble. I'm going to post it in our panel chat. And it's actually from Rob's book. It's a page out of Rob's book, Hashish. And it gives you the inches, the LPI, the microns, and the millimeter.

44:11BubblemanSo it's a pretty good little conversion. So sorry about that. Cuban, go on.

44:14SpeakerThat's cool. So the 180, the reason I like it is because out of all my experience sifting, if I make hash with a 196, which is a 70, it doesn't melt as nice as like a 70 water hash to me. It'll leave some sort of trace of contamination with the resins that I deal with. Now, this is Plant-specific, because I have a homeboy out in California that sifts a string called Purple Punch on a 280 LPI, which is like a 50 micron.

44:45SpeakerIf I ever used that screen, my hash would be no melt Nebraska, straight up.

44:52BubblemanI used to sell that screen at 300 LPI, basically, and it was about a 45 micron. And it was only certain things could be carded over that, because it was just... Like you said, it was such a small, it almost worked like a sieve, you know, you just like.

45:09SpeakerAnd a lot of powder, like you'll get some heads and it'll shine and stuff, but it's almost not even worth the trouble, you know, it's a big waste of time on some ranges, so you got to really know what you're working with, the resin, to be able to. So my 180 screen that I like to use.

45:48SpeakerDoes two things for me. One, it's like a 90, equivalent to like a 90-85, so the oil content on those heads are beautiful. They're nice heavy heads. They're very nice to the eye. Like if you show it to somebody and you're like, yo, turn on your flashlight on your phone and look at it, you know, it glimmers, boom, right back at you. It's really beautiful, very terpy, and nine times out of ten, if you're working with the right variety, it's like a six star.

46:16SpeakerEasy, you know. You know, your drying technique for curing your weed, we were talking about it before because I'd taken a jar of this, you know, I'd have a jar of this in my pocket from Prince George down to Vancouver on my motorbike and it'd be nice and sandy up there, but then I'd get down here and it'd just be just a clump. And it was because I wasn't curing it long enough and it was going from the humidity levels and the different elevations, right, sea levels, but...

46:48SpeakerSo this stuff, I had it sitting on my screens curing since late last winter. And I just made this batch, and it came from Prince George, come down here, the whole works, and it stayed nice and sandy and nice and cured. Just like the resin heads, like grapes dried up into raisins. That's what the resin heads do pretty much, get all the moisture, right? Yeah, it makes it more resistant.

47:15SpeakerSo check this out. I spent a good time in Mendel, right? I love that place, man. I was hanging out with my friend Taylor. He was the head judge for the Emerald Cup online. He goes by T Beasle. So this dude, he's one of my favorite water hash producers, right? And he just bought six freeze dryers. And he's been using them, you know, the proper method like Michigan Made Melts uses it where he makes it look like some dry sieve because he throws it in as wet as he possibly can.

47:42SpeakerAnd when it comes out, it's like a sand patty straight up. So the sand padding, it looks visually to the eye like when it gets broken down like dry sift, right? But he's running fresh frozen. So cold cure, it looks like dry sift. When you take a macro, it's not so much. It's not glandular heads, you know, in the sense of like Mark's pictures of dry sift.

48:05SpeakerBut the big thing I noticed is that right when that resin went outside and it was at room temp, It was just greasing, becoming a mass of resin and just like gooing. Even though it was properly dried, it was not cured. You know what I mean? Like a sift. Sift will never goo on you like that. So I asked them, I was like, yo, I wonder what happens if you dry and cure your material, then wash it, and then freeze dry it, if it'll do the same thing or is it going to stay sandy?

48:35SpeakerYou know what I mean? Black virgin too. Yeah, so from my conversation with Sam the Skunk Man, it seems like a three-month cure on the plant is a good level for it not to absorb moisture so easily back into the resin. Now, I told him, I was like, yo, so I got some material that's like a year and a half cured, and I went to look at it, all the heads are red.

49:01SpeakerHe's like, oh, no, that's too far cured, too. I was like, damn. So there's like a period of time. Has anyone ever tested those for cannabinoids to see if that indeed is the color

49:34SpeakerI'm sure that's been done for sure, the CBN with that red color, the degradation of the cannabinoids of the time. I'm just wondering if there's some other cannabinoids or other terpenes involved in that.

50:02SpeakerSo, hold on, my bad. It's just so I don't lose my train of thought. Man, you're clicking with that torch quite a lot. I'm not. I'm typing. Yeah, I hear click, click, click, click. It's my wife with the torch.

50:12BubblemanIt's like an old school typewriter, like, damn.

50:16SpeakerIt says you sound like a typewriter. So, yo, I was at, I have a lot of people that bring me samples of SIF, right? I can, hey, hold on, bro. It's early in the morning, man. We're still on our first dance. So anyways, you have a lot of people bring you samples of SIFT, right? And you look at it and some are good, some are like, whoa, you know, it all depends.

50:41SpeakerWell, yo, I met my first whoa at Emerald Cup. This young dude, he has like 80 followers, man. He goes by Dry SIFT Jedi. I looked at this man's SIFT and that shit was pure, pure, pure, pure, not a single contaminant on it. And when I looked at it and I looked at him, you could just tell his face. He was proud of it, man. So I asked him, I was like, yo, how long have you been making SIFT, bro?

51:06SpeakerHe's like, oh, a year. I was like, have you ever made a drop? Nah, man, I just smoke all this shit. I was like, dude, that's how I started. But I had to give him the tip of the 180. Just because they look good, but the melt was like a five and a half star, you know what I'm saying? I think that 180 would have propelled him just because of the varieties he was using.

51:25SpeakerBut yo, he's going to be somebody to look out for next year, man. His speed is already nice. Awesome.

51:33BubblemanGreat to see more and more people. I can't wait until most heady people have a big jar of the Full Melt Dry Sifter in their pocket. I mean, my God, it's definitely like... There's a reason why nobody has it. You know, everyone wants to say they have the five star, but the bottom line is how five star restaurants generally work is there's just like one of them and then a whole bunch of shitty restaurants that aren't the five star.

51:59BubblemanSo I don't think it works any different for Hash, but hopefully that'll change and we'll see more people. I love being surprised like that, Cuban, when someone can show me dry sift of that quality. I think one of the first guys... You know, to show it to me would have been like the Gold Coast dude who came up from Cali to Amsterdam some years ago and brought some dry sift and it was super pure.

52:22BubblemanDefinitely like pure 99 for sure.

52:24SpeakerYeah, and I had just judged the Emerald Cups, so they had eight dry sift entries, right? And yo, I'm going to just say, I don't care who gets mad, they sucked, man. When you enter something and you're going to put an entry, go hard. You know what I'm saying? Enter something you know is going to win. Don't enter Keith. That's not Dreyse. So after having that, we were all disappointed in that.

52:47SpeakerBut the water hash was fire and the rosin was fire. Straight up. Really good. But when I saw that Dreyse jet, I felt some hope. I was like, yeah, man, more people are getting into this manual form of extraction. And I know it.

53:01BubblemanHe's in the chat room right now thanking you.

53:04SpeakerYeah, yo, he told me that in person. He's like, man, you made me happy. I was like, you should make yourself feel like you made yourself happy because, you know, you're doing this for yourself. This shit's good. But, yeah, you got to go into dry sift with the mentality that the yields are going to suck. And you're going to work hard to figure it out and it might take you a long time.

53:23SpeakerSo if you have a lot of material, go for it. But if you're the type of dude that has like a half a pound of material and that's all you got and you want to make sift with it, I'd probably prefer you learn how to make water hash. Just because it's more fail-safe.

53:37BubblemanYou know what? It also is big time, the material. That kid just happens to be the kid that has the fire. Everyone thinks they have the fire until they try to make full melt dry sift, and then they're like, what's going on here? This isn't right. Why doesn't mine look like yours? Rob, would you like to take that question? Why doesn't mine look like yours?

54:00SpeakerTop, middle, the red. Hi, can you guys hear me? Welcome. My voice is really bad today. I've got a cold, so I'm not sure how this is going to work. Cuban, that was exactly right. If you don't have a whole bunch of good product to work with, don't even get started. You can do a little experiment to see what's possible, but you won't really get a lot of joy unless you've got a lot to work with.

54:27SpeakerWater hash is very efficient. Back to the old techniques, it's really efficient. It's a lot easier for people. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like another thing I wanted to touch up on, well not only do I get like almost double the yields of water hash, so it kind of, it's like, but the quality of like the 45 that you make into rosin comes out as an actual desirable nice yellow oil.

54:52SpeakerNow the thing that I've realized with Keith, like if I, if you just tumble a shit ton of Keith and you press it into rosin, it never is going to be the same color as water hash rosin. So it's going to be a little darker, more, I don't know, just, Lower grade, I would say, right? So I asked somebody, and what they told me is that the oil and the pressure, it can actually leach contaminants on the way out, like chlorophyll and stuff like that, and taint the color of the rosin.

55:19SpeakerNot necessarily green, but it won't be a cellophane clear yellow or almost translucent, no-color rosin, right? But when you get off, so when you make the sift, the only way to get a rosin the same Color and comparable to water hashes that you got to make it 99. Now why would you ever press 99% dry sift into rosin? I've done it before. It's kind of dumb. You know, let's just smoke the sift.

55:45SpeakerIt's better. But the water hash, when you got 45, it's almost like that 45 is pure as it is. It makes beautiful oil. The 73 does too and all the grades above in all those bags. So yeah, if you don't have a lot of material, you get a lot more for your money, higher grade with water. Do you want a mocha or PSO? Mocha.

56:10BubblemanSorry guys, I'm trying to keep up with the chat room. There's tons of people talking and yammering on and I always sort of like to try and keep up, but then a long pause happens and it's this weird, awkward, like, oh, should we be smoking hash? Is that what's going on here?

56:25EtienneWrong, Rip, but Rob, what are you smoking right now, sir?

56:30BubblemanA sore throat, apparently. Always on mute. Here, let's see if I can... Ball ripping.

56:36SpeakerI got it. Got some, I don't know, man, some Miami haze dry sift kind of came my way, you know. Never heard of this stuff, but it's from a bro who's before us now. Absolutely excellent. Fantastic. That's been me the last day. Thank you, sir. Actually, my wife made that. I had a feeling that was the case. Yeah, she holds it down super hard. So while I was judging and having a good time in Mendel, she was sifting like a mad woman just to be able to have those resins out at the cup.

57:12SpeakerAnd that Miami Haze is one year cured on that one. I'm glad you're enjoying it, man. It was nice meeting you. Yeah, I liked meeting your lady at the cup last weekend. That was really good. That was really good.

57:32SpeakerWell, I believe I'm going to be going to Barcelona this year for Spanibus, so I hope to meet everybody that I can. If anybody's on the panel that's going, it would be awesome. I'm working on getting my passport right now to do it.

57:48EtienneI'm giving some consideration to it, but it would just be me solo probably.

57:54SpeakerI'm going solo too.

57:56BubblemanI'm probably going to go myself. I definitely, Spanibus and Barcelona, it's a good city. And if a good group of people were going and a little bit of organization was put in, we could probably have a nice event there while Spanibus is going on. What are the dates, Mark? I believe it's like 13, 14, 15 of March, but I would Google it just to make sure. It's Spanibus 2015.

58:23SpeakerWould you be maybe doing a Legends over there, Mark?

58:27BubblemanI would love to do a Legends over there, to be honest. I was looking at a boat, a 78-foot yacht that's on the water at the Barcelona Yacht Club, and man, I'll tell you, it would be a nice spot to be able to do a Legends dinner.

58:45SpeakerWell, I'm going to do what I can to have what I can to enter. Yeah.

58:54SpeakerYou know, speaking about terpenes, Ramon out there in Barcelona is killing it, and I'd just like to give him a shout out. We haven't talked about Ramon in a while, and we're seeing him around, so.

59:04BubblemanYeah, I figured he must have his head down. He must be working hard.

59:10BubblemanGood for Ramon. Ramon is always killing it, producing beautiful hash and beautiful rosin, and I haven't seen his terpenes yet, but I'm sure they're no slouch as well.

59:24BubblemanI have to admit, I'm definitely spoiled on Tony's terpenes. Whatever he's doing, he's doing right.

59:33SpeakerI sure get baked off of a couple of rips that I've had off of them. Holy crap.

59:40BubblemanYeah, impressive. Another way of saying what Darren just said is they definitely modulate the high of Of the buzz. Holy smokes.

59:53SpeakerYeah. There's no doubt about it. You're looking like you're fucking really baked. Easily. Give yourself away completely.

1:00:03BubblemanYeah. That's what I noticed about them. If I think I'm like at the top and I'm like, wow, I'm really, really very stoned right now and I just decide I'll just take one more rip with a terpene dip. One more rip with a terpene dip. That's a t-shirt. Come on. Bobby, I'm going to put you on that one. No, Todd, we cannot hear you. You are muted.

1:00:25BubblemanDo you want to try to unmute yourself? No, no, no, there's a bug. You've got to close out and come back in that one. That's always the problem.

1:00:34SpeakerI got that bug too.

1:00:36BubblemanCan you hear me? Yeah. Yeah, we can hear you, Cuban. You've had it though before for sure, Cuban.

1:00:42SpeakerI just rejoined because I had the bug. Yo, I wish I had more terpenes in my life, man. That shit spoiled me. I don't have any, bro. Fuck. That hasn't even hit the northeast coast at all yet. I mean, I've seen you guys posting about it, and it's been fascinating me, but I have yet to try it. I can't wait to.

1:01:05BubblemanIt just hangs on your lips, you know? You take a rip, and then like minutes, like five or ten minutes later, you accidentally lick your lip, and you're like, oh my god.

1:01:15SpeakerHave you guys tried the clear? I'm not a big fan of those added terpenes. It reminds me of e-cig juice. How would you guys compare those flavors to the terpene profiles of what you're medicating on now? Oh, man. You know what it's like. Remember your terpest dab you've ever taken, right? Like the mouthpiece choker? Yeah. That rush of terpenes that goes to your throat. You're like, oh.

1:01:38SpeakerYou try to hit it, you're like, ugh, you know what I mean? Like, that's what it's like, dude. It tastes just like a normal, powerful-ass dab. But the thing is that I could grab any rosin, right? It doesn't matter what fucking flavor it is. But if I grab, let's say, Purple Punch, that one was good. And you put drops of that Purple Punch in the rosin, that rosin's Purple Punch now.

1:02:00SpeakerYeah. It dominates completely. Oh, yeah. And the shit smears all over your fingers because it's so like oily or something and you just put it on your neck and you're like, yeah, I smell like a purple punch now. Hey, you guys are sounding like a bunch of glue heads, man. If you're tasting more than is naturally there, you're using too much, aren't you? If it's masking everything under it, it's already good and you turn it into purple punch.

1:02:34BubblemanIs that to say that because we extracted the resins that we were doing too much and that it was naturally only supposed to be done the way nature intended?

1:02:43SpeakerI'm not saying only the way nature intended. There was a reason for curing weed. There was a reason for treating it. I've been trying to stay away from this stuff, but

1:03:07BubblemanI think the fact that Tony's curing the terpenes is important, that he's not just capturing them fresh frozen or whatever or fresh and then putting them out on the market. He cures them out and they change the same way they do on the plant or in the hash in the vial.

1:03:26SpeakerOkay, that can be true. Let's leave Tony out of this. I was talking about just the general concept of what you guys are talking about. I was forgetting you were talking about Tony's product. But let's leave products out of this and introduce people out of it for the moment. Unless they want to speak up. He's not here this morning. So I just don't see this. It's fascinating, but it can really be overdone like anything, you know.

1:03:52SpeakerAnd And not all terpenes are good. There's a reason we aged our weed. It became more smokable after a few weeks or months, depending on how you did it. You could also ruin it, but you could make it better from the point of view of smoking. And it is a smokable product. Now you're talking about vaporizing, but I'm not a big fan of that either. Call me old school.

1:04:16SpeakerYou know, it's not where I'm at about this stuff. So I kind of challenge the overuse of it, is all I'm saying.

1:04:21BubblemanThis is what I'll say against that. I have a lot of faith in my bioassay ability, and I've been a purist for a long time, and I'm not into things that generally aren't good for me. I've been the one that's been away from things for years that I just felt like, you know what? You made that with a weird chemical solvent and you don't know if you cleaned it all out.

1:04:40BubblemanI think I'm going to pass. Because I've tried those things and felt sick from them, gotten headache and turned green. And so all I know about this is it is amazing. I mean I'm telling you, I fucking love it. I really do. What about you Cuban?

1:05:01SpeakerI want more, man. And I might be a terp head. I'm not a glue head, but I'm a terp head. Straight up. Put it like this, though. If I have hash that is like terpy naturally, the way it comes, I won't mess with it. You know what I mean? But it's an interesting product to me to see that somebody can Extract the terpenes, their smell, the taste, the essence of the plant into a little vial.

1:05:29SpeakerYou know what I mean? Like that was just cool to me. Perfumery is an amazing, amazing field of research. You know, that's what you're talking about there. And does anybody still have any of the Swiss flavoring oils left? I'd like to see somebody put that terpene extract onto something.

1:05:51EtienneThat green, heavy stuff?

1:05:53SpeakerYeah, stuff that the guys have from Switzerland 10, 12 years ago. I don't think I have any more of that.

1:05:58EtienneYeah, I don't have any more of that. I used to.

1:06:00SpeakerBut I'd like to see what that natural cannabis extract from, at the best, Ropa Dope, it wasn't really hemp, but it was hybrid stuff, and see what that would do as an experiment. I'd also like to see somebody take hops cones, take all the resin glands off of them, Put some BHO that's just pure THC on there. That's easy enough to get. And close to pure THC.

1:06:23SpeakerAnd then start experimenting with different terpenes off the shelf on some neutral material like that. Are we really after the terpenes, or are we after a complex mix of things? What are we after? And let's have some double-blind experiments. I met with Dave Pate last night. I hadn't seen him in years. Dave's a really smart guy. He's not necessarily buying this terpene thing at all. And I'm behind him on this too.

1:06:51SpeakerThere's been no science. I'm with you guys. I like it too. Okay, let me back up here a little bit. Let's do these things right. Let's do a little science. Let's get a double-blind experiment that shows these effects. The only thing that's been done is cursory work by David and me and a few other people. And we kind of launched this whole thing in a way. But It's time to do some serious experimenting and see what's really going on.

1:07:17SpeakerThe problem is that it's a circular problem. We know what to expect in terpenes, so that's what we get, and that's what we portray back onto what we expect from terpenes, which is what we get, and it's not scientific. It's satisfying. It's not scientific. So I'd really like to see some better work with this is all I'm bucking for. In the meantime, take it easy with these things.

1:07:43SpeakerNone of them have been approved for ventilating, for breathing. They're not really approved for that. Just because terpene compounds like bergamot oil are allowed to stick on cigarettes doesn't mean they did any research. It just means they wanted to sell cigarettes. So there's nothing here to tell us that this is safe. There's nothing here to tell us that it's effective. So we all self-titrate well. Mark's exactly right.

1:08:09SpeakerHe's got his radar up.

1:08:10BubblemanThat could be the same way for extracts, for solvent and solventless extracts. And I mean, I looked at the terpene results in the Emerald Cup, and hopefully Alec will be here soon to talk about those results. He's with SC Labs.

1:08:26BubblemanThey tested the milligrams per grams of the terpenes, and many of the strains were as high as ones that had terpenes added, but they never had terpenes added. They were just a really rich... Full terpene producing plants that got made into an extract the right way to preserve those terpenes. So what I'm saying is why not the worry for all these years that people have been inhaling butane solvent extracts, water extracts, and potential microbials.

1:08:56BubblemanWhy haven't we, you know, 15 years ago said let's do the science on that. Why just now with terpenes?

1:09:02SpeakerYou know, can I interject something? Because I'd like to ask Rob this. And is there, in a sense, are there mechanisms in the chemical makeup of cannabis that combat us being exposed to light mold on import quality Mexican or Colombian? Because God knows when we were getting brick weed, you know, It didn't grow brown. That was it, you know, rotting. So obviously we were exposed and we were all lighting our bowls with our big lighters and, you know, someone from the lab, I think it was Addison, told me that that's got a trail of 8,000 ppm butane coming off of a low temp flame lighter when we stick it in our bowl.

1:09:40SpeakerAnd, you know, and I think Mark has a great question. Is there things in cannabis, chemicals in cannabis that could have kind of buffered that exposure to toxicity? Absolutely. And if you have any faith at all in whole plant medicines and whole plant health care products, the answer, of course, is yes. I mean, a complex herbal remedy or complex herbal smoking mixture, whatever you want to call it, is going to have compounds that may very well hurt you but may very well protect you as well.

1:10:15SpeakerAll you've done by making BHO is take an extract of the glands of cannabis. What about the other 90%? Whole herbal healing people who are largely behind what is supposedly going on with medical cannabis are in shock about extracts like this. Their whole plant extracts, sort of, but there's no chlorophyll. There's nothing that isn't either butane or CO2 soluble. Your techniques are limiting how much is in there.

1:10:52SpeakerYou're not doing anything near a whole plant extract, so of course you're missing out on the possibilities that there are things there that are going to ameliorate the effects of smoking cannabis. That cannabis smoking in its raw form hasn't been bad for people. It is amazing. Smoking is bad. Tars are bad. Cannabis smoking is good. This is fantastic. That seems to be what we're looking at right now so far.

1:11:18SpeakerThe answer would be, why? And it's a whole plant experiment that we've done so far. This is a shunt from that. Water hash is really a whole plant extract in a lot of ways. The gland heads are in there. You have some bits of leaf stock, if you will. It's still much closer to a whole plant extract than solvent extracts are. That's the beauty of solvent extracts, too.

1:11:47SpeakerRob, I was going to ask about my deadly allergy to hemp and the sub-allergies I have to cannabis and what could be missing why I'm not allergic to oils. I'm allergic to dry sift, I'm less allergic to water hash, I'm deadly allergic to the flower rosin, but I'm not allergic to solvent extracts. So the argument goes both ways because when you fractionally distill an oil into all its fragments and you see how many of them are When superheated become noxious, a whole plant extract where you're going to cook that all down, I'm like, I will not pour the terpene burnt content back into your THC and call that whole.

1:12:29SpeakerI just took it out and I can see that I want it out of my room. Because once those terpenes were heated, they all changed and they might not all change for the better. If I was trying to standardize a product versus every time I throw weed in, it's terpene explosion soup and it's never the same. I can see that. I'd say, Arisha, you're a unique case.

1:12:49SpeakerI mean, most people don't need to refine their cannabis so that it doesn't give them allergic responses. You're close to a unique case. First time I've ever read this. So for you, it's perfectly appropriate. I thought so, too, until I started looking up adverse emergency room reactions to hemp protein. Thank you for watching.

1:13:31SpeakerYou don't extract proteins in oils. So obviously whatever protein you're allergic to, unless you have chunks of micro bacteria in there or something or other, and there's proteins in those, but you can get things that are small that have protein in them, but not cannabis proteins. So that would make sense. And water sift would still have it because it's got the head cells in there. And they have their cells, so their proteins run around in a trace, tiny amounts, but for allergies, as you know, it doesn't take but a molecule early sometimes.

1:14:02SpeakerSo, yeah, it's interesting. So for you, it's perfectly appropriate, and so would be pharmaceuticals made from synthetics. I mean, as far as just trying to seek relief, I would think that they wouldn't cause the allergy problem. Dr. Okay, so it's a protein. That's what I figured because I looked at why, Dr. Well, not necessarily. It could be, Dr. It's something that's not coming out of the oil.

1:14:27SpeakerDr. It could be another organizm. It could be another organizm that lives on cannabis that his body looks at as an attacking organizm, and through an allergen, antigen response, mass cell degranulation occurs, and he has an allergic response. The reason why I go through the ladder, so I start with... Where did he go?

1:14:54BubblemanDid he drop out? Is that a ratio that dropped out?

1:14:59SpeakerYeah, it seems he dropped. Oh, he'll be back. He would be back. He had something good to say, too. Welcome, Flashy.

1:15:05BubblemanWhen he gets back, we'll let him ride on the mic.

1:15:11BubblemanHopefully his computer didn't die or something. But yeah, that was an interesting conversation. No, I always appreciate your perspective, Rob. I definitely look at you as a vast amount of information, a mentor and a teacher. So I always appreciate it. I do say this. The science is definitely needed. I said it from day one as well. But at the same time, my little spider sense that usually goes off for most things sure hasn't gone off for the Terps.

1:15:39BubblemanThey're just so enjoyable and to see the joy that they bring people, it reminds me of being back at the melting point, my gallery back in 2002 and 2003, and I had this inhalation station of vaporization. And it was pretty early to be doing this in the city of Vancouver. No one had vapor bars. They didn't exist. This was the first one. I had all these vaporizers.

1:16:00BubblemanAnd I would let people come in with their own herb and try it. And my mentality was that Canada allowed a certain amount of people to have these licenses. It was a very small amount, probably less than 5,000. But it wasn't really my job to ask people if they had this license or not. So I could let them use their own herb on the vaporizers, or I could, you know, Use a variety of herbs that I had gotten from the herbalist next door who said, oh yeah, all of these can be used for basically like the way you would steam up a pot with eucalyptus and then breathe it in when you were a kid.

1:16:32BubblemanShe said, yeah, you could do the same idea with a vaporizer with the plant matter. And eventually we got to an extract. A guy brought in some peppermint extract and it was just the most unbelievable smell. And he put a tiny little bit on that big Thank you for watching.

1:17:05BubblemanThere's a few where I've hit them and been like, oh, I don't think I'm really a fan of this one. And that could very well be, you know, having a concentrated, you know, version of terpenes that are necessarily not the good ones that you want, but maybe the ones that would have otherwise, you know, vaporized out or volatized out. I definitely like the idea of potential breeding in the future, learning the beneficial terpenes versus the non-beneficials, and maybe potentially breeding strains that are That are free of those terpenes that you don't want.

1:17:36BubblemanThat would be cool.

1:17:37EtienneSpeaking of breeding and terpenes, hey Rob, what's up with the Phylos Project?

1:17:45BubblemanThe Phylos Project.

1:17:47SpeakerWe presented, Mowgli Holmes, the head of Phylos Bioscience, and I presented a workshop At the Emerald Cup. And basically I covered the new taxonomy a little bit and tried to explain how it presents a model for us trying to figure out the evolution of cannabis, a hypothesis to hang real data on. And Mowgli's project is looking at the genetic sequences, the genome sequences of so far about 1500 dispensary samples.

1:18:24SpeakerAnd seeing how they're interrelated, this is part of the project. And now what I've been looking for, along with Sam the Skunk Man, is getting samples of land-raised varieties, the basic building blocks that were used to make the Scentsimedia varieties we have today, the hybrid Scentsimedia varieties we have today. And once we have these older samples from the 70s, from before, from very early homegrown varieties, pre-Afghan, pre-Broadleaf drug varieties, then we'll be able to put a time sense on this and see some of the beginning of the evolutionary ideas, corroborating some of the history we know.

1:19:11SpeakerBut it'll be interesting to be able to click on your sample, for instance, in the database and see How it's related to other samples in the database and how it's related to ancestrally, see if your hybrid variety has Thai or Colombian or Afghan and things like that. So that's the type of thing that, one of the things you can do with this sort of genome data. That's what I'm interested in.

1:19:35SpeakerI'm interested in the evolutionary questions. It might also, genome work might also be really interesting for terpene breeding because Terpene breeding is difficult, at least in comparison to cannabinoid breeding. Cannabinoids are basically a linear chain of synthesis. You have cannabidiol and THC. They're both from the same precursor. That's about the only split in the pathway that we deal with on a daily basis. We know the enzymes for each of these steps.

1:20:07SpeakerThere are multiple alleles in some of these enzymatic steps, but they're pretty well understood. They're easy to breed for.

1:20:16SpeakerPotency is super easy to breed for. You're breeding for one allele and against another allele. So it's very simple. But terpenes are much more complicated. They start with a number of basic molecules. They have ramified pathways controlled by lots of enzymes. And more importantly, there are lots of changes in the synthesis that are non-enzymatic. They happen due to heat and time and things like this. So it's just a much more difficult thing to deal with.

1:20:49SpeakerAnd I think we see sweet subterpenes come through in breeding, but they would be analogous to one branch of this complicated synthesis, biosynthesis pathways. And those seem to be pretty reproducible in varieties. But we've also lost lots of unique aromas over the years. Every breeder has. You see it pop up once and it You breed that plant and it's just gone. It's that, and then of course you have many, many terpenes instead of just a few cannabinoids in many varieties.

1:21:22SpeakerAn aroma, the things that you're appreciating particularly, or the effects that come from a suite of terpenes, not just one or two, that's another aspect when you're trying to apply what you bred to what you've got and how you use it and how it affects patients or Other users. So, yeah, it's really complicated. So breeding can help with this. Genetics can help with this. It could give us markers for some of these terpenes that we'd be particularly interested in, rare ones, for instance.

1:21:52SpeakerBe able to screen huge populations without growing them to maturity. All kinds of advances for breeding due to genome work.

1:22:00EtienneSo maybe terpenes... Is there one you're focusing on initially, a particular genetic?

1:22:06SpeakerNo, not at all. I'm only interested in the evolutionary pathways and what's really happened to make cannabis what it is today and try to tie that into the human relationship with cannabis. That's my interest really.

1:22:20EtienneHow far do you think man has been using cannabis in conjunction?

1:22:25SpeakerHow long has man been using cannabis? Humans? At least since the beginning of the Holocene Epoch 12,000 years ago, 10-12,000 years ago,

1:22:38SpeakerI mean, how much before that? Really hard to say. There's cursory evidence. Maybe some of the fiber evidence that's been found is actually cannabis, but there's no proof that it is. But probably in the previous warm periods, before the Pleistocene, the last Ice Age, cannabis was used as well. We don't really have any evidence of it. Have you read Michael Pollan's book, The Botany of Desire? Yeah, I kind of had a hand in writing at least the cannabis chapter, sure.

1:23:06BubblemanI figured you would. It was kind of an interesting book, the way he goes back with humans and looks at these important relationships, these plants that we've taken with us and sort of popularized through our relationship with them.

1:23:19SpeakerYeah, and he got a lot of mileage out of that. It's accessible, narrative, well-written ethnobotany, which is a field that most people don't know much about, and it's the relationship of Thank you for joining us.

1:24:02SpeakerHow humans interact with plants and vice versa. So that's, of course, a great book.

1:24:08BubblemanThat was pretty interesting, the apple aspect with Johnny Appleseed, the guy that was going and planting all the apple orchards. And people were like, they wanted to play him off like he was planting apples for apples. And then what Michael Pollan discovered was that, indeed, because the apple genetics, you know, the saying the apple doesn't fall far from the tree is actually as far from true as possible, like the lineage of an apple.

1:24:31BubblemanIs as far from that lineage from the tree from the apple. The seeds don't produce anywhere near. They produce a very foul tasting apple basically. So he discovered that it was more for people to make their booze, their little apple ciders. That's why this guy was planting these orchards. And then when the European settlers arrived, he was able to sell them a piece of land with their booze intact type of thing.

1:24:55EtienneSo I thought that was pretty fascinating. Back then, booze was safer than water.

1:25:02EtienneOh, fuck.

1:25:04SpeakerAnother thing to build on what Rob's saying is you have the flavor of the resin heads that are being produced. I also noticed with breeding and growing out large populations, the plant material has a distinct flavor as well. I found strains where the resin smells really good, the plant's growing really great. I harvest the bud. They smell like what I want them to, but the herb doesn't smoke right.

1:25:27SpeakerI grew that clone several times after that. And the herb just has a poor flavor, or I've gotten strains that produce like little tiny little black embryos in it, you know, and those are just like, you know, I grew some like land-raised Cambodian stuff, and it's like they're not seeds, but they're these little little tiny things, and they'll crackle and stuff, and there's all these, you know, not only is there the terpenes that are going to be, and we're not, you know, extracts aside, of course, but When you're breeding for a plant that tastes good when you smoke the herb, it's the terpenes that are growing on the plant and everything, but also how the plant material tastes can have a good or bad influence in my experience as well.

1:26:11BubblemanYeah, makes sense. Oh, Rob's muted. I'm going to unmute Rob.

1:26:20SpeakerIt's the other 90% of the plant besides the resin, so of course it's going to have its own flavors and tastes like any vegetable matter. Some are going to be good and some are going to be bad. I hate those little tiny nubs in some varieties. They're largely gone from our seed seed varieties. Back in the day, you'd think, man, I've got a seedless bud. You can't get those things out.

1:26:44SpeakerThey're like little pyramids. They don't roll out like seeds. They taste just as bad. Yeah, it's not fun, especially when you get a plant that has the terpene, you know, like the herb smell. You're like, oh, yeah. And then you break it up and you're like, okay, this is totally fucked for smoking herb from it. Yeah, absolutely.

1:27:09BubblemanSomeone just told me I sound stoned, and I said, well, I hope so. I've been working at it all morning, trying my best.

1:27:20SpeakerHey Rob, have you ever heard of this compound called Hashishine that this French group has isolated? No, I haven't. Wow, it's a fascinating paper. I mean, again, we talked about this in Hash Church, about how a lot of the terpenes, again, undergo all kinds of thermal rearrangements, especially when you heat them up. So, you know, again, what you see in the GC and What you see at room temperature might be two very, very different things.

1:27:52SpeakerAnd so this group in France, this is a really fascinating paper. I think I put the link in the chat here. Identify this compound in several different samples. In fact, it was in all of the samples that they tested. And it's a 5, 5 dimethyl One vinyl bicyclo 2-1-1 hexane. It's a very interesting structure. And when I look at it, it doesn't look like something that would be stable even at nail temperature or even at rosin making temperature.

1:28:33SpeakerAnd I'm wondering if this thing's actually polymerizing in some way to make some sort of polymerized version of this terpene. It's a very interesting Terpene, it's pretty rare. It's not widely reported on in the literature. And until this group in France reported on it, I had not really heard of it coming from cannabis at all. So this is a group in France that's basically reported this as being a volatile constituent from many different samples that they've looked at.

1:29:08SpeakerI'd never seen it before until this week. I was just wondering if you've ever seen it. No, I haven't. Yeah, I haven't seen it. That's interesting. I'd like to know more about it. It's a terpenoid, huh? Yeah, it's basically, it's a thermal, and they've actually come up with mechanisms to account for not just this compound, but several others that are found, that they found by their GC analysis.

1:29:36SpeakerLet me post the link here so you can be looking at the paper. I think what will happen, I mean, The labs look from probably 8 to maybe 30 terpenes now that the labs can find. They're all named terpenes. They're the ones they can find standards for. They're the easy ones. We've done analyzes with perfume labs also in France years ago, and they come up with 50, 60 terpenes that are named, and then a whole lot of just numbered retention time peaks that they don't have names for, and there's lots and lots of terpenes that don't Don't have names from their source plant or whatever.

1:30:17SpeakerAnd I'm sure the harder we look in cannabis, the more we're going to find, and some possibly unique to cannabis, although none have been found yet that I'm aware of. That's my real question. I mean, cannabis has this unique ability to smell like almost every other plant on the planet, right? I mean, you got pine, you got fruits, you got almost everything out there. It's How does it do that?

1:30:43SpeakerMost oranges all smell like oranges. There's no blueberry orange or skunk orange or whatever it may be. It may be possible, but people have done a lot of breeding with other plants as well and haven't really gotten such a wide range of terpenes. It's amazing to me that this plant's got to have There's a lot of unique ones to it because there's plants that smell like nothing else, too.

1:31:11SpeakerThere's cannabis plants that are unique to cannabis, in my experience. Dr. Those are manifestations that happen at the genetic level that, like Rob said, what the genes do is the genes express proteins, and the proteins are essentially the cellular's machinery that basically produces I mean, proteins are enzymes, but they're also structural in nature, and they're basically creating all the compounds, including the terpenes and the cannabinoids. And like Rob said, the unique thing about cannabis in terms of its terpenoids is that it's got this CBGA synthase, which pre-enolates.

1:31:54SpeakerAllatol Vagafsid, which is a very unique sort of bond formation in the plant kingdom, and that sort of creates the cannabinoid pathway. But be that as it may, terpenes are ubiquitous. They're in all the fruit and food that we eat. I mean, people are like, you know, we can't get good terpenes on the East Coast. Well, just open up your refrigerator. They're in there. They're everywhere. There's no reason why Mother Nature would make a unique set of phytochemicals for one plant and not use them economically throughout the plant kingdom.

1:32:34SpeakerSo, I mean, terpenes are everywhere. They're the same terpenes that are in mints and the same terpenes that are in a lot of different varieties. It's just the mixture. Of those terpenes, it's like each individual molecule you could think of as an instrument and the different music that the orchestra plays, which is what we end up feeling, is a function of the ensemble of many, many different compounds and how they work together and how they work with our individual receptors in our bodies.

1:33:03SpeakerIt's not just individual one single terpene. That's why I always laugh when people say pure terpenes. There's no such thing as pure terpenes. Terpenes are such a wide class of molecule that molecules we're talking about is such a very, very small fraction of phytoterpenes that are derived from cannabis and alike. It's such a very, very small fraction of the total terpenes. It's like fungi. I mean, they have their own goddamn kingdom.

1:33:32SpeakerThere's a huge collection of terpenes that don't resemble anything like what's in cannabis. And if you try to dab those, you'll probably get really sick. Well, I have a question, and because this is something that I get asked all the time, and it is, are all these terpenes equal? Because when I get handed CO2 pens that are clearly mixed with terpenes that may be found on cannabis but were not derived from cannabis, like the D-limonene thing, like when somebody handed me that and it tasted, oh yeah, wow, it tastes better than the CO2 oil did.

1:34:11SpeakerBut are these things equal? I mean, if we have terpenes that are honestly derived from cannabis, that's one thing, because that's what's on the buds we smoke. But if we are now smoking essence of orange degreaser from Florida chemists, I mean, I have to ponder, this isn't the same thing, is it?

1:34:34SpeakerThe molecules are the same molecules. I mean, again, whether or not they have some residuals from where they came from could determine whether or not they can be sweated out as, oh, that limonene came from orange peels. I mean, you could talk to Horatio about this. Some of the low-level decontaminant or some of the contamination products, hydroperoxides and whatnot, Can be noxious materials, but again, I think you're just getting it like in too large a dose.

1:35:06SpeakerIt would be like standing right in front of the tuba and let the tuba play. You just get this huge dose of tuba as opposed to being in the back of the concert hall and listening to the tuba as it plays along with the rest of the orchestra, which is a completely different experience than sitting right next to the tuba and getting blasted out by the tuba, right?

1:35:27SpeakerDoes that make sense? Absolutely. And I love your analogies of music. They're just exactly right. But Todd's also talking about this quality of the source material. I mean, certainly you can get aromatherapy oils from natural sources and things, and they've got to be better breathed than keyboard cleaner. I mean, there's levels of limonene. So yeah, and We're sitting here at the chateau level of extracts and concentrates.

1:36:01SpeakerWe're talking in the cerebral levels, but you've got to remember that there's a lot of people who the best thing they can get is some lousy CO2 extract with some keyboard cleaner put in it. People actually do smoke this stuff. Back to, you know, we need some regulation. Sorry to get slightly political again, but we need regulation for these things. You know, it's Can't let snake oil salesmen run around and poison us.

1:36:29BubblemanIt's not right. It's true. I have to agree with that. You know, the one thing that I've seen since, well, we're naming no names, but since my friends started making terpenes, it's been a lot of people who now have terpenes and terpenes mixed into their product, and I'm just like... I'm not 100% sure that they're doing it on the same level.

1:36:48SpeakerI think, Marcus, I don't know that this is the truth, but I think it has to be because right now the way that these folks are basically using the vacuum ovens to basically evacuate and purge their slabs, you can basically, again, I think Tony showed us on Hash Church a couple episodes ago where you can basically just use a cold finger And trap all of that effluent that's coming out.

1:37:14SpeakerSo if you just process Girl Scout cookie and you got a couple Girl Scout cookie slabs in the oven, you basically just put your cold finger trap on that and trap everything that comes out. Now again, you're going to have some butane and probably residual solvent in there, but certainly you can fractionally distill that material later on and basically just clean out your traps, which I think is what Tony's doing.

1:37:36SpeakerThat's where he's getting his terpenes. He's basically just getting it from The material that he's trapping out of his purge process on slabs of dry material, Resin. I just wanted to, or on live resin, I just wanted to mention one other thing too. If you are using cold fingers, and again, you're using something like a high vacuum trap, make sure that, again, if you're pulling a lot of water through that trap, that you change that trap regularly and you don't get an ice plug in there.

1:38:06SpeakerBecause if you're doing, if you have an ice plug in there and you're heating a closed system, that could be problematic. You're going to get pressure buildup and that could be problematic. Just make sure if you're running out on live resin that you regularly clean the ice out of your trap and you don't let that freeze up. Because I've had a couple people reach out to me and say that, hey, we've had this happen and make sure that that doesn't happen.

1:38:27SpeakerJust check it frequently if you're running live resin. That's basically it.

1:38:34BubblemanAwesome. Thank you. Tony's waiting to get in. He says he'll jump in when someone jumps out and continue the conversation with... About the terpenes. 710 people watching. Isn't that like the number? Isn't that the number? That's a good number.

1:38:59SpeakerI could get off for a little while and you know what, that'd be great. You guys talk for a minute and let Tony and that way Rob can be part of the conversation. Oh, did he get up and walk away? Get up and left my desk. Okay, that happens. You guys in the same house? I'm at my house, man. The easiest way to get these guys on hash charts is to put them in front of a computer.

1:39:25SpeakerIt's not the first time, man.

1:39:30SpeakerGood questions. You know, I thought we'd talk more about the Phylos project. You know, it's really interesting to see some of the genetic maps and how closely aligned these varieties are. And I've got to see after the Emerald Cup some really good maps that showed the groupings of like broadleaf drug and narrowleaf drug and hemp. And it's fantastic to see the way that genetics are starting to show us the family tree of 20th century hybridization really is what it is.

1:39:58SpeakerBut it's fantastic as fuck. And Rob's still working on this. And there's actually, somebody took the data and put it on a website that's similar in Holland. And you can click on a strain and see where the strain's related to the other strains according to the genetic information they're getting. And I think this is fascinating as fuck because, you know, we're going to really get a better understanding for not just, you know, cannabis, but how cannabis grows, how other strains grow.

1:40:25SpeakerYou know, if you have experience with one in the middle of two, you're going to know the other two really well. It's kind of fantastic. Awesome. Well, I'll jump off. Let me go. Let's see if Rob will get back on. I'll see you guys in a minute.

1:40:41BubblemanAwesome. Wait, I think there's room.

1:40:47BubblemanYes, there's room. There's one spot. I just told him to try. He can come in. You don't have to leave. It's all good. I think we lost Marcel too at one point. He was going to share a little bit of his... Yes, there's room.

1:41:02SpeakerThere's one spot. I just told him to try. He can come in.

1:41:06BubblemanIt's all good.

1:41:09SpeakerHey, Josh.

1:41:15BubblemanHe's like, what? What's going on, guys? You on mute? Say something. Say something.

1:41:19SpeakerWhat are you guys doing?

1:41:21BubblemanWhat's going on, space?

1:41:22SpeakerHello, my resin heads.

1:41:24BubblemanHey, boys. Space is the place. Hi, Mark. What's going on, guys? These guys are about to get serious. We've been talking about terpenes. Rob's been the voice of reason. He's been dropping knowledge and just saying that we need to be careful and we've got to really get on the science of this terpene thing before too many people inhale too many vials.

1:41:52SpeakerRight.

1:41:53BubblemanBut I backed it up with my bioassay, as did Cuban, that... My spider sense doesn't go off. I just really enjoy it, and not in like a crackhead type of a way, but more like a nice ice-cold glass of water, you know. It sustains me.

1:42:10SpeakerYeah, you know, there's a lot of misunderstanding out there, too. At least 20 times before I even got to the lab to even get on Hash Church, I was referred to other Instagrams and other people and different technologies, and like, is this yours, is this yours, is this yours, and Really, it's important to note that there's a lot of people extracting terpenes with different methodologies. And, you know, I can tell you that important notes is that, you know, when you're trapping, trying to take terpenes off of something that already had solvents in it, it changes the molecular structure quite a bit.

1:42:52SpeakerIf you're using alcohols, rotor vaps, fractional distillation, Short path distillation, distillates, all of those things are, you know, removing footprints that you started with. I saw different people online that's doing, you know, very clear turfs that are coming off of cold trapping. And last time I was on, I thought I was pretty clear that I'm not using any of those things, but I did show a way to create a home freeze dry with a cold trap.

1:43:28SpeakerFor drying hash, because sometimes the freeze dryers, you know, there's concern about losing terpenes in that process with a harvest right or things like that. And I think that's the most important thing is like, if you're coming from flowers, you're taking terpenes from flowers, and you're not using a solvent, and you're trying to stay true to the molecules, then essentially what you're doing is You're taking the one to three percent of the terpenes in the flowers and concentrating them.

1:44:00SpeakerSo we smoke them, we inhale them, we vaporize them. They're in our concentrates. And I would have more concerned with the molecules that are being changed with a solvent than one without. So I definitely think there should be a lot of research on the different types of terpenes, how they're extracted, and the footprints that it leaves behind. And then ultimately what that does to a system. But noting that terpenes are ambiguous in all foods, fruits, vegetables, meats, every element on earth has a terpene.

1:44:34SpeakerSo we consume them, we eat them, we use them in topicals, we use them in every kind of fruit and vegetable we put into our body. So if you're getting concentrated versions of them, that's why I always say use very, very Very little amounts. Dunking your extracts directly into the turps and using them on a nail at high temperatures, we don't know what that does. So, you know, using them in small, small, small quantities is essentially just increasing that percentage that you would have in your flowers.

1:45:14SpeakerSo, I mean, there's an argument for everything, you know. And we'll definitely be starting... Different types of clinical trials on them and doing all kinds of studies real soon in 2016. We'll get to a lot more answers. But I definitely think it's really important on the way it's being extracted to look into that.

1:45:39SpeakerAnd someone answered this term I keep hearing, what is this popcorn lung? Is that just a slang term for a real condition? Or is that a hype scare term just to freak people out? People seem to keep asking about, oh, you smoke terps and you'll get popcorn lung. And I'm like, well, I can think of a class of terps, damaged terps, abused terps, those solvent extracted terps where you could get negative reactions.

1:46:03SpeakerBut I don't know if this popcorn lung reaction is real enough to give it any attention. Has anybody ever heard of that? I think the term popcorn, you know, there's microwave distillation units that are out there, and there's different kinds of ways that people are trying to extract terpenes, and I think when you get into high temperatures, you know, over 200 degrees, that's the popcorn smell or thing that they're referring to.

1:46:33SpeakerI went through that phase like a year ago, and And then the lung, though, that's the first time I've ever... Popcorn lung is a different thing. Popcorn lung is a bronchitis condition that actually comes from basically an irritation that happens in the airways, and they think it has something to do with polymeric materials, so materials that's essentially vaporized at certain temperatures and then sort of played out inside the lung and essentially result in accumulation of You know, pulmonary edema.

1:47:09SpeakerBut I think it's even traced to the reason why they call it popcorn lung is it's traced to the material that's heated up when you use microwave popcorn. And so when you heat up microwave popcorn, there's actually some material in there that when it gets superheated creates, again, I guess this mist or this material that essentially can be problematic in the airway. That's why it's called popcorn lung.

1:47:36SpeakerOkay, so in the case of, I mean, even just extracts themselves, when it comes to those dabs that fill up your nail with a bunch of bullshit, when people hit those type of toxic dabs, that's the kind of condition that could volatilize. Because you've said polymers a lot of times, and I'm like, wow, I've seen that in shit I've thrown away. The polyethylene glycols and some of those glycols that are used in e-cig juices, Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:48:05SpeakerWe'll be starting in about a minute.

1:48:32SpeakerSome of these vape pen cartridges That can be used with cannabis, I'm sure. I was going to follow that up. That is one of the major reasons why I have a serious issue with vape pens because the type people use to, especially on something like cannabis, it's completely inferior. Like I look at what I use to volatilize vegetable oil and it looks like a motorcycle engine. Like the wire wrapping and the complexity to create a heating element just to vaporize a simple product to then do something like cannabis on a basic It's disgusting.

1:49:09SpeakerAnd then these other compounds people are using to dilute their stuff. I assume then something like popcorn lung will be a new phenomenon of the next generation that grows out completely on vape pens and all of the new startup industries that are coming out of vape pens. Well, I don't know. I think popcorn lung could just merely be the symptomology of your lungs rejecting anything that you're vaporizing and you're putting in there that it just doesn't like.

1:49:35SpeakerDid you guys get anything? Did you get anything?

1:49:43BubblemanThese guys are all stoked on their squirt. How's that for a popcorn lung? You know, I'd only heard of popcorn lung for the first time in my life, like literally yesterday, and it was a picture, and it was like the pathways in the lung had all been damaged and they'd ruptured and they looked like little kernels, and I was like, really? They're calling it popcorn lung? Like...

1:50:04SpeakerYeah, cigarettes and e-vaping and e-link liquids have been implicated as being some of the problem there, I think, Mark.

1:50:12BubblemanThose guys looked like they were in a Rosen Olympics, and they just got first or something. It was so good to see them all giving the thumbs up. Four star turned to seven star. There it is. Thank you, Soil Grown and Compassion and everyone before you, like the Phoenicians. Too bad Chris Bennett didn't make it in today. We did have a full room early, though. Packed it in here.

1:50:44BubblemanYeah, what about quartz vape pens? I don't know, you know. You've got to think that something that you inhale every day, that's the thing, even with cannabis, you know, and that's why I wonder, like, yeah, terpenes are at least a part of this plant, and we're hitting them, you know, in a concentrate, yes, but in The same profile that they were pretty much given to us in our concentrate or our plant, a very similar profile anyway.

1:51:08BubblemanIt sure smells a lot alike. It'll be interesting to see what the science shows. I'd love for some universities to get on testing that shit right now. Maybe we can do such a thing in Jamaica.

1:51:21SpeakerYeah, well, definitely look at this paper from this group in France, Mark. They're at a university, and it's a group of really, Smart scientists, and I was really impressed with their paper. It's very well written. It's about a year old, and it basically identifies this new compound that has never been identified in cannabis as being quite common.

1:51:50EtienneHow was it isolated?

1:51:52SpeakerI'm sorry?

1:51:53EtienneHow was it isolated?

1:51:58SpeakerChromatographic separation, I think, did identification by both multidimensional NMR and gas chromatographic and mass spectrum analysis.

1:52:15EtienneI'm sorry? So they found a new spike and they're naming it this?

1:52:19SpeakerWell, they basically, they've identified this new compound as being quite prevalent in most samples of hash that they analyzed. And I had not been aware of this, but it had been sort of like along the lines of what we were saying that here's a compound that doesn't naturally occur in cannabis, but it's formed in the processing of the material that we consume.

1:52:44EtienneSo would you say it's decarboxylated material?

1:52:47SpeakerNo, it's formed from terpenes. It's formed from myrcene and probably other terpenes. And it may not be the end point. I mean, they identified it. I'm thinking, again, that in the rosin-making process, That this compound is not going to survive and it's going to form an oligomer or another polymer. It's going to basically be trapped in the rosin making process in some other way, shape, or form.

1:53:12SpeakerI'd love to do the research to understand what exactly is happening in that process. It's cool stuff. It's really neat chemistry and I think what it shows again is that we've been talking about this If you look at the GC and you find that there's peaks in there, you may not think so, but one peak could really have like a couple different components in there. And so what we thought was all one component might be three or four different components.

1:53:43SpeakerAnd so I think Rob would agree that we're constantly trying to find more and more precise what are all the components in the volatile extracts of cannabis. And we're getting closer and closer. And finding new compounds like this helps us understand, get another little piece in the puzzle.

1:54:06EtienneSo you're saying it's found in different types of hash? It's in everything.

1:54:10SpeakerIt's in everything you're smoking. I'm convinced after reading this paper, this is a very prevalent compound in all forms of cannabis that are consumed by humans. These people basically discovered a year ago that here's a compound that's formed in hash. So I think it's significant. You know, because I think it's cool. And who knows what activity it has. There's only like a handful of reports on this compound in the literature.

1:54:34SpeakerAnd just because they identified it, that doesn't mean that that's, they're identifying it in a way that They might be breaking apart the adduct that really it is at room temperature. So when they put it into the GC, again, they're heating it up. They observe this peak that they associate to this molecule. But what does that molecule look like at room temperature? So could that be some of the glassy material that sometimes we see with shatter like rosin?

1:55:02SpeakerOr could this compound be somehow hid in some other way, in some other form in the extract?

1:55:09EtienneWell, you could use a UVH PLC and, you know, see what, you know, but we have to have enough of that material to actually run it for enough for assay.

1:55:18SpeakerYeah, that's absolutely right. I mean, there's enough material now. I think that they've identified the material. Everyone now is going to look for this material from now on, you know, because they've identified it and there's a standard for it now and there's basically an assignment that under these GC conditions, This peak at 13 minutes in the chromatogram is that compound. And now everyone can go back and look at their GC data and do we see that peak?

1:55:48SpeakerMaybe that peak is obscured by a CBD peak or something else that's in there. So again, this is just all parts of putting together all the pieces of the puzzle of everything that exists in the plant.

1:56:00EtienneBut we knew that we were going to find new compounds and newer compounds are going to come out because these combinations... That thereof, and so it makes sense that since you're combining all these different terpenes in hash into a concentrated form, that it's not unheard of that, you know, new compounds wouldn't be formed.

1:56:17SpeakerOh, yeah.

1:56:17EtienneFrom the change, the oxidization, you know, with or without contaminant, we know, you know, specifically, so that's why if we could get enough of this with the UVH PLC, we could get the pre-carboxylated, you know, snapshot, so we could see where it forms, which is, The next, you know, landscape of that.

1:56:41SpeakerYep.

1:56:44SpeakerThis is the reason why I'm a chemist. This kind of stuff fascinates me because it's all chemistry and these molecules all play a delicate dance around each other and just who cozies up to who and who ends up reacting with who and what we end up getting out. The reactive partners that So there was a research institute that was started this week. I know Americans for Safe Access did something in the Czech Republic, was it?

1:57:32EtienneOr in Eastern Europe where they're set up a research, a cannabis research finally, with a university. I don't have much information on it, but it kind of blipped on me this week. So anybody have any information on that?

1:57:49SpeakerI saw that. I just saw that the International Society is having a meeting over there, right? Yes. To announce the formation of this research institute?

1:58:02SpeakerYeah, I think I just read the link that you posted, ATN. I think you did post the link on this.

1:58:13EtienneAll right. 720... I'm trying to get it here. Highway launches European... That's different. Trying to get... See...

1:58:31EtienneI could get this thing on the platform for them.

1:58:39SpeakerWhile we're talking cannabis chemistry, let me just use this point to do a shameful promotion. For 2016, I'm teaching a class at Cloverleaf University called Chemistry for Hashmakers. So it's going to be a three-day class. I think we're going to do it in March. That's cool as shit man. Send me your graphics and I'll help you.

1:59:27SpeakerWell, what I was going to actually do is I was going to maybe drop the syllabus here on HashChurch so you can kind of see the topics that we're going to cover. And again, if you can't make the class that we're doing in March, I think they're going to run it a couple times next year. But a lot of it is going to be some of the discussion that we've had here on HashChurch.

1:59:46SpeakerSo it may be old hat, but it'll be cool. I think if you were to share that, that would be really epic, honestly. I think a lot of people that listen in are here for information. I mean, unfortunately, you're localized. People have to come to you and listen. I've had the same problem when I've done events, but it'd be, wow, so cool if you dropped that knowledge.

2:00:09SpeakerHere, here, excellent idea. All right, great. I hope you guys will be in the front of the class. You'll be my best students, right? It's in Canada, right? No, Cloverleaf is in Denver. Oh, I can go to Denver. Denver's totally cool. Yeah, I think we're going to take it on the road. So I think it's going to be on the road a couple times next year. So stay tuned.

2:00:35SpeakerWe're still working out the details. And I can tell you that really the outpouring I've gotten mostly from being on past church, Mark, so thank you. I appreciate that, has been mostly for people who are really hungry for the knowledge and people who want to understand Chemistry and people have reached out to me asking, you know, what's a good career and what's a good pathway to take on in a college.

2:00:59SpeakerAnd yeah, I mean, certainly it's all about creating a knowledge base that really can bring the industry to, again, that point where we can really say that this is legitimate and it is science and it is real shit that's going on here and not just a bunch of bro shit.

2:01:21SpeakerWe're pressing rosin.

2:01:25EtienneYep. Alright, here we go. I got some information.

2:01:30BubblemanYeah, I don't see any hairs in that slab. That looks pretty fucking clean from where I'm sitting.

2:01:36EtienneSo, U.S. Medical Marijuana Advocacy Organization launches International Research Center. So the ICCI will foster evidence-based exploration of the modern scientific approach to medical cannabis. So American Fish Safe Access is Done this with KOPAC and Diosortides Global Holdings. We're holding with the Minister of Health for the Czech Republic. So there it is. It is the Cannabis and Cannabinoid Institute International. So ICCI out of the Czech Republic. So we now have a research institute.

2:02:13EtienneSo we now need to find out how we get stuff to them and how we start, you know, Getting either funding to them, whatever needs to happen. But now that we've got an international research institute, we need to start using it, people.

2:02:28SpeakerWell, it's interesting. You mentioned, you know, vape cigarettes, or we're talking about e-cigarettes. You know, there's a lot of manufacturing of those types of devices that actually happen in the Czech Republic. The Czech Republic has got a huge manufacturing base that actually supplies that industry. So I just think it's pretty ironic.

2:02:51SpeakerIrony. Irony, yes.

2:02:54EtienneWell, kind of even better to have the research being done there if they're actually doing that because, you know, they have access to that, you know, that material so that they can start, you know, cleaning up the air.

2:03:04SpeakerI think the Czech Republic is very pro-hemp and very pro-cannabis. I think, I'm not exactly sure what their legislation is.

2:03:11EtienneThey have been. We were dealing with, back in the early 90s with decollution, we were dealing in the Czech Republic. So, absolutely, they're very hemp-friendly.

2:03:23EtienneI have a Czech joke. You want to hear it? As long as that Czech doesn't bounce.

2:03:29SpeakerThat was my idea. What do you call a Czechoslovakian abortion? A cancelled Czech.

2:03:38BubblemanSorry, folks. Cue to Todd. Now for the joke. Todd holding his ridge of his nose with his hand.

2:03:49BubblemanI don't know. Like that random uncle at your Christmas dinner.

2:03:54SpeakerThanks a lot, Mark. Not really used to the whole fucking glasses thing. Just make it worse, okay? Thanks, bro.

2:04:02BubblemanRocking those glasses, bro. Are you kidding me?

2:04:07BubblemanI need to what? All right.

2:04:10SpeakerAre you going to get the guy from SC Labs on today, Marcus?

2:04:13BubblemanI hope so. He told me he was having a party last night. I did hit him up again about 45 minutes ago. I hit him up saying, I hope you're coming in.

2:04:23SpeakerHe said he'd be a tad later than nine, so that he might be getting a little turned up.

2:04:30BubblemanI think he'll come in. We'll have to hope for the best. Otherwise, it'll be next week when also my other friend is going to come in who you will also very much enjoy. He has a really good overview perspective of a lot of different things that are going on in this sort of in the genetics and in the testing field. So, hey, welcome back, Smash.

2:04:52CubanWhat's going on, guys? What's good?

2:04:55BubblemanWe're getting iry.

2:04:56CubanThat's nice.

2:04:59BubblemanTony's apparently smashing.

2:05:02SpeakerYeah, I see that pneumatic hooked up to the 5x5 D-mail, it looks like.

2:05:08BubblemanYeah, it looks something like that. Oh, now it's just Tony's pocket. They're just giving us little bits and pieces.

2:05:17SpeakerSmoking on a little white Romulan here.

2:05:20EtienneLet's see if we can get that on camera. What makes a Romulan white? It usually is pretty white.

2:05:30SpeakerIt is crossed with the white strain. It's an OG rascal genetics. The white is probably one of the most resonant strains I've ever come across. Yeah, I got the flower here. It's just ridiculously caked. It's beautiful. You touch the bud in your hand, it's soaking wet. It's a really great thing.

2:05:53EtienneWhat's the history of the white?

2:05:57SpeakerI'm not, I don't know there's, I don't know necessarily, I think it was, I've heard some Black Widow and like Prior. Yeah, the person that made the White popular was Chrome from Swamp Boys out in, he was from Florida with Kornberry Ricky. And yeah, man, those guys are dope. I would love to see them on the panel because they are old school. I agree. I've been following them for a minute now.

2:06:35SpeakerYou guys ever get to try that South Florida kryptonite before? Man, what we used to call krypy, I mean, we just didn't have strains. It was just fire weed, but the krypy that I remember, it was lime green. Stuck to the bag because it was so fucking sticky. And when I asked Ricky about it, because now the creepy, everybody calls it, you know, the OG, but I don't remember that smell in my childhood.

2:07:02SpeakerMy weed was a little different. It was actually called the Gainesville Greens.

2:07:07EtienneYeah, that's what I remember it being.

2:07:10SpeakerAnd man, I would fucking love a cut of the Gainesville Greens, man. If somebody has that shit, fuck, that was some fire. Yeah, that's one of those strains that really made me fall in love with cannabis, man. I used to get that in Florida when I lived off I-75. I'm sure you did. We're both from R.I. kind of side. I've encountered it so much in New England, and I haven't really encountered a terpene profile that much like pining cannabis.

2:07:38SpeakerIn a very, very long time, because the one that I tried was so pine that it was like chewing pine needles almost for me. The one that I tried was darker green. It looked a little like some good mid-grade from back in the day, but when you cracked it open, it was like smelling a Christmas tree.

2:07:55EtienneWere they small nugs too?

2:07:57SpeakerOh, yeah. Well, yo, you know what's funny, man? In Florida, people like popcorn-sized buds and light and fluffy buds because a lot of weed gets sold in... 10 pieces and 20 pieces on the street. You know, there's no dispensaries and a lot of people don't buy half pounds to smoke to the head. It's more to flip. So a lot of the nugs that you would get were small, regardless.

2:08:20SpeakerBut you were kind of happy because if you had a gram that could roll you two blunts and you were broke, then that's kind of your winning right there, you know? But, man, that creepy, the Gainesville Greens, that shit, you just knew when somebody was smoking that high grade. It was so loud and just so distinct. It's like, That's for damn sure.

2:09:08BubblemanYou eat pieces of shit for breakfast?

2:09:11SpeakerOh, man. When I was a kid, I probably went deep into it, but I'm just saying, you know what I mean? They've been going at it for quite a while, and they're nice to talk to just because all the questions I got, I came from a prohibition area, and definitely the East Coast was very down low, so I didn't know what I was smoking, man. You just want weed without seeds that is going to get you nice and high and cost the money?

2:09:36SpeakerYou smoke it as a kid, but when you grow up and I was in the West Coast and you learn about strains and shit, those guys already knew about strains in Florida. They were breeding and doing all sorts of work, so they have a good grasp on the actual history of those buds from the 90s. There's a lot of fire out here. Do you guys ever get to encounter any Chemdog genetics or ever run them for hash?

2:10:01SpeakerI'm sure you do, but is there any that stick out to you? Oh, I love smoking Chemdog. I love it. It's just not grown as much over here, you know, and like the shit Top Dog puts out, JJ, it's some candy, bro. All day. You know, Mr. Bond, he had the, what was it, the What did he win Dabadoo with? I can't remember. It was a Star Dog Cross, I think.

2:10:26SpeakerBut Top Dog, man, they're really popular out here. I mean, obviously, it comes from Massachusetts, so it's like that's what my garden's full of right now. I got some skunk coming up, some Jizzle, some Yeti right now. I can't wait. I'm going to actually try to do my first run of dry sift for myself.

2:10:46BubblemanWell, now you know. Make sure you cure that shit out before you attempt to sift.

2:10:51SpeakerOh yeah, I'm going to hang something up like he was saying and try to do that. Yeah, well, you know, bro, a lot of what I've found over the course of this year is a lot of the flowers that are awesome to roll up in a joint or a blunt, you know, those that you can smoke to the roach and they're very enjoyable. It's almost like a totally different realm from the plants that have the resin to make enjoyable hash.

2:11:20SpeakerI agree. That makes sense. Like a lot of the flowers that are awesome to smoke don't make good hash. They don't yield good or they don't melt as good. I know chem makes good hash, but I've never ran it myself. You know what I mean? I hope you do. I have a few times. It's exceptional. Yeah. I see myself not really smoking the flowers that I make hash from now that I think about it.

2:11:48SpeakerI always smoke them in a hash form, but I always look and desire the flowers that I don't grow, that I've never made into extract, but I probably would never want to make into extract just because they talk so good. That's crazy. We're on hash church and I'm saying I wouldn't make it into hash. I probably would make it into hash if I had enough of it.

2:12:08BubblemanNice save.

2:12:09SpeakerNice save, Cuban. Yeah, yeah.

2:12:13BubblemanProbably would make it into Hash. And by the way, Todd, I saw you looking a little funny when I said what I said. That was, of course, a Happy Gilmore quote. I don't know if you guys remember that part of Happy Gilmore, but pretty funny.

2:12:26SpeakerYou know, you're a dad, so I figured you see things I don't have to see, so I was just like, you know.

2:12:30BubblemanCome on, you can be Happy Gilmore. What was that? Happy Gilmore, Adam Sandler, the golf movie.

2:12:39SpeakerI didn't see that one. Maybe it came out when I was in prison. You've never seen that movie?

2:12:45BubblemanOh my god. I wish I'd never seen that movie. That's incredible, Todd, because you now get to go and get insanely stoned and watch Happy Gilmore. Watch it.

2:12:56SpeakerYeah, you're in for a treat.

2:12:57BubblemanThat's funny, bro. That's really the movie that created a whole career for Adam Sandler.

2:13:06SpeakerYou know he smokes bumpy, right? Yeah, I was living in Amsterdam, so I missed Hollywood that year. I was stoned in a coffee shop.

2:13:13BubblemanI missed Hollywood that year. Welcome back, Tony. You are on. Oh, there's two Tonys.

2:13:22SpeakerYo, Tony, you spoiled me with the dabs of turps, bro. I ended up pouring all my vials into my nail.

2:13:32SpeakerIt didn't last me long. Now I'm going to have to make an order. I'm fiending for the Terps. Fiending. Yeah, now what I'm doing is I'm going to include these little things. These are the new little custom white droppers for this. So that way you don't do that. We've got a Gorilla Glue slab we made here. Look at you. Yeah. This is going to get real terpy.

2:14:04SpeakerI got Gorilla Glue Terps on Gorilla Glue Slab. The Czar Brothers in the house. Look at those goggles, bro. Safety first. Safety third.

2:14:14BubblemanSafety third.

2:14:17SpeakerSafety third.

2:14:22BubblemanYou guys are ridiculous. Getting terpy over there, too. I can just smell it from here. Mainly because I have this Gorilla Glue... Token Vial in front of me, open. I do appreciate the perfumery aspect of the plant.

2:14:44SpeakerWell... Oh, sorry. Yo, Tony, when the village came up to me, and I was hanging out with Frenchie, right? And I always love seeing the village. He came up and he just had this fucking strong ass aroma of weed. He just smelled mad like fucking, like a 20 pack, a walking 20 pack or more. And when he whips out his vial of Purple Punch, I realized that's what it was from handling the terpenes and showing people his vial, you know, that Tony had ran from.

2:15:19SpeakerIt made me reek so bad, man. I wouldn't want to get pulled over with vial of terpenes. Bro, last night, let me tell you, last night... After we got off work from the lab, I was running a lot of CBN. Dude, we did 100 milliliters of ACDC. And I was in the car, and I was like, God damn, I smell like fucking a hundred pack. I was like, it just exuberated out of me.

2:15:54SpeakerI was like, what the fuck is that? Even this morning I was smelling it all over everything. Like it just couldn't do it. So the only thing that we could do for dinner was to go to 7-Eleven and get like a giant gulp, like slushy and some like knickknacks. There's no way I could even went into a restaurant. I couldn't even go anywhere. I couldn't go into public.

2:16:13SpeakerThe only place that was acceptable was 7-Eleven because that shit happens all the time there. And that's the ACDC's a pretty pleasant smell, you know what I mean? Imagine some shit like some cam or some skunk, something like just like, whoa, loud, you know? Man, they'll smell you right out of the car, bro, when you stop at a red light. That's for sure. Yep. So this whole slab is probably, how much do you think this is?

2:16:43CubanUh, 12 grams, 10 grams.

2:16:46SpeakerThis is a good 10, 12 grams, so I'm only going to put like, I don't know. One, two, three, four. I ain't mad at you. Five. Five drops? Sunday, do seven. Seven drops? Sunday, seven drops.

2:17:04BubblemanSeven. Come on, do seven. That was awesome.

2:17:06SpeakerDo seven. Seven drops. It's Ash Church. It's the first, uh...

2:17:12EtienneSeventh Star Adventist Church. Oh, he's on the Seventh Star. Can you do that?

2:17:16SpeakerMaybe. Maybe we're... Look, I gotta get you on camera. No. Because Nick's in the house. Bradley was in the house. I mean, you know... Nick Bradley's in the house. He was. He was. He was earlier. I don't know why. Well, Tony, do you think there's like a saturation point for how much terpene drops you could put on like a given amount of oil? Because what I noticed is that it was hard for me to like on a shatter, it was hard to mix it.

2:17:41SpeakerBut when I put it on a wax, my wax melted. Yeah, what I would do is no more than one drop per gram. That's like as saturated as you want. You could let it sit too. So I just actually fold this on top of each other. So I just put like the six drops on it and then… I do the Cuban fold tech that you taught me.

2:18:00SpeakerDon't even have to use a tool. Don't touch nothing. Hey, Cuban, are you just saying when you added turps to your dry sift, it melted? Well, I had rosin on me because at the time when I had met Tony, I had no sift or anything on me at that point, right? So when we were at the hotel room, I grabbed some frozen wax, and I tried to dip it in the vial, but I guess it was too big of a hit, and the fucking piece of wax broke and fell in there, right?

2:18:29SpeakerWell, what happened was that the terpenes dissolved the wax, and it became kind of like this liquidy, I don't know what to call it, but it was crazy, you know what I mean? But when I put it on some fire, I was trying to get it out of the jar. I call that vape pen ready. That's what I do to create, that's what I've been doing is you just, so a lot of people are like, oh man, I don't want to buy the turf because it doesn't have any THC or cannabinoids, which I'm like, well just add a little bit of flower rosin or a little bit of hash rosin to it and use it as a dilutant and it dilutes it and makes it super, super viscous so it's really good for a pen.

2:19:12BubblemanHoly shit, is that ever loud when you're fucking folding that parchment paper?

2:19:16SpeakerSorry, let me mute this.

2:19:18BubblemanYou're like right beside the mic.

2:19:21SpeakerMan, I don't even care if it has THC or not, just the flavor is fire to hit it straight up on the courts. That's why I want to have one of those The Village Master Vials that he was walking around Emerald Cup with. So I can give people dabs with the dropper. Yeah, that's what it sounds like. It sounds crazy. Oh, dude, I've done it. Do it at home.

2:19:46SpeakerAlso, don't go past like 480 on the nail, man. Keep it like really low temp. Low, low temp. If you hear it chirping or sizzling, it's too hot. Yeah, yo, there was one that was strong as fuck, the Green Dragon. I took a drop of that one on the nail and, whoa, dude, it was hard not to choke. What's your temperature when you're doing that? I have no idea, I just heat up the banger and let it get as low temp as it can, you know what I mean?

2:20:14SpeakerAnd I just, I try to like get ready and cap it as fast as I can, but dude, I once felt like a green dragon going down my chest, bro, so terpy, it like locked my lungs up. This is crazy. This is pretty crazy right now. I think the Bizarre Brothers space, they're like, what the fuck? This is a serious piece of taffy. This is a serious piece of taffy.

2:20:41SpeakerI mean, this is stupid. This is like, if this was BHO back in the day, you'd be like, I am not smoking that shit. Oh, sorry, are terpenes like oil or what type of consistency are they? Because it's so like slippery. Yes, oily, oily, oily.

2:21:02BubblemanThey keep your pipe clean, I'll tell you that much.

2:21:05EtienneYeah, they do. Oily. Oily.

2:21:06SpeakerWhat do you say? Do you keep your pipe clean?

2:21:08EtienneI want to check the percentages here, so I want to take a whiff of this here Rosinator Turp tube that I just cut up and prepped.

2:21:16SpeakerYou know, the other thing that there's some other things that I do, we have never ever talked, we've only talked about extracting the Turps, but we never talked about what you do when you have everything as far as essential oils and volatiles and phenols and things like that, so there's a whole... Another process that I go through to like clean it up and remove anything else. So that's, it's also always constantly evolving, but I've got it down like really, really, really good now from where it was even three months ago.

2:21:48SpeakerBut, so that's why the test scores went to 98% when you're talking about terpenes. And you'll just see a significant increase in that, but it's definitely super oily. Super oily.

2:22:05SpeakerI like how clear it was, that it didn't have any pigment to it at all. It was just completely, completely clean looking. I got this paper I got to press out again. Hold on. Word. So another thing, when I was out hanging out with Taylor, he showed me these jars of water that came out of the freeze dryer. I guess it's from the condensation in the coils or whatever.

2:22:30SpeakerI don't know, it's like the byproduct after, from the sublimation process, I guess is what it goes through in the hash. Now that water smelled really strong and what he was planning on doing with it is, I don't know the terms, I guess using a rotovape or whatever the tool is to take the water out but keep the terps. Do you think that water actually has good viable terps?

2:22:53SpeakerThank you for watching.

2:23:16SpeakerOh, this homie has like almost like a gallon of water worth from all the runs he's done. He has six freeze dryers, so he's going really hard. And he's so excited. He has it in the fridge and it smells really good. Yeah, it's probably a lot of hydrosol. He needs to get it tested. So if he's testing like 20 or 30 percent, then that tells you what your terpene content is.

2:23:35SpeakerSo this is like, this is the seven drop on the seven star Gorilla Glue on Gorilla Glue.

2:23:46SpeakerYeah, I love the terpene.

2:23:49BubblemanLooks fucking delicious. Let's hit it. I'm like, let's smoke it. Yeah, that looks bomb. I'm taking a dab.

2:23:57SpeakerI'm taking a fucking dab right now, too. I can smell that. I think everyone in the building can smell it. It looks great about it, and I'll tell you right now, if you don't know the Bizarre Brothers, well... And you don't, you're not even in the industry, but perfectly cured resin will allow it to be, I mean, it's not buttering out. It's fucking beautiful. Their heads were really, really, really cured well.

2:24:32SpeakerIn fact, you can keep it in a Ziploc bag. It's cured so well. And that goes huge when you're making hash rosin and when you're actually combining the turps with it and everything. It just cuts out. What way did you press, Tony? We pressed your Gorilla Glue.

2:24:49EtienneAbout four star.

2:24:51SpeakerFour star Gorilla Glue. This whole jar we've pressed out since we've been online. So we've done about three inches out of this jar. It's probably good.

2:25:03EtienneIt wasn't 90 grams.

2:25:05SpeakerMaybe 90 grams. We've done like 45 grams. That looks really tasty. Where's your guys' pipe at? Cheers, guys. Who are we going to pipe at? Go ahead. If you follow Todd McCormick, he'll tell you not to use any water because we don't have to anymore. I'm just saying, what are we filtering out? If all the water is so pure, why do we need the water? It's trapping our terpenes.

2:25:50SpeakerI just want to take a minute and tell all these people on Instagram, thank you. There's so many people that use the HashChurch tag and are putting out really positive stuff and great photos. They're even taking screenshots of us talking. It's awesome to see the points they're bringing up. Some of them just brought up about Rob and others. It's cool to see the information we're sharing going around so fast.

2:26:15SpeakerIt's just nice to be part of it. Everybody's so eager to learn. Yeah, learning from each other so fast. I mean, really, that's my motivation to wake up and do this is because I feel like I learn something every time I do it, and I hope somebody can, you know, learn something from me, but it feels great. And, you know, hey, thank you, man, the guy from Smash.

2:26:34SpeakerWhat's your name? John. John, nice to meet you. You split me that piece of luck and love at Secret Cup, and I just didn't want it to end. It was so good. You know, was that just a fresh flower pressed or what was that you gave me? Yeah, that was just some really good OG, a cut of that and just pressed flower. You know, we press everything from trim to larf to whatever.

2:27:00SpeakerWe did the whole sifting and made nice packs and pressed that and we find to have way better results just pressing the straight plant material. It had a great taste. It had just a full, like when, I really like when flowers are pressed. I feel like that's really rosin. When Mark turned me on to it, we were sitting there with hair straighteners in the Hash Museum, Hemp Museum in Barcelona, pressing buds, and that was my first, you know, initiation into it.

2:27:27SpeakerAnd that flavor, that taste coming off the flower was really special. And what you handed me was totally that. I recognize that. I think it's just the best, I mean, it's the most simple way to highlight what I think is like most important is the grower, you know, like gold in, gold out. And if it didn't start out good, it's not going to end good. So, you know, those are the people that are highlighting or, you know, really that we should be highlighting that took the time to cultivate those terpenes as, you know, Rob was saying, you know, earlier, you know, we People are breeding terpenes.

2:28:02SpeakerThat's really what's going on there. And rosin is just a simple process that highlights that in a really cool way. And kind of on a note of sharing things, it's amazing. Rosins, it's been not even a year. We're coming up on the year anniversary of rosin. I think it was February 12th when Soil Grown first made his post on Instagram. So shout out to Soil Grown. Yeah, for real.

2:28:28SpeakerFor real. That is amazing what has happened. Can I ask you, is it like a massive trade secret or, you know, how hot does that get? Like that sample you gave me, like, what was the hottest temp that that saw? That was 225. We press, you know, warmer than some people like to press, but that's, you know, how we get yields that we feel good about and stuff.

2:28:52SpeakerI wouldn't have guessed that. It tasted really good. It really tasted great. It smelled great. I was really, I was thrilled with it and You know, I would never have guessed that you went over 200 with that. So, well, thanks for sharing. Yeah, you know, shout out also to Rufio Craft on Advanced Rosin Tech group there on Instagram. We got his rosin work plates. You know, it's even heat distribution.

2:29:16SpeakerYou know, we use a hydraulic press, even heat distribution. It's really cool things. And then from there, it's properly cured, you know, cannabis and stuff. I had some of that tie that buttered out and that tends to be, the fresher material tends to butter really easy, you know, so a long cure. Moisture though, don't you think it's just moisture, it's water? I mean, and Cuban just said something very telling when he added terpenes to the resin.

2:29:44SpeakerIt melted, and I've always felt that what we say is auto-buttering. It's just what Rob explained to me was the cannabinoids and the terpenes were separating from one another, and everything, all this oil is still alive. I mean, you know, and the one thing we're all learning is oil doesn't sit well, so you might as well use it. You know, the oils are going through a transitional process, and they are changing while we have them.

2:30:08SpeakerThey're alive. And if there's more terpenes, you're going to see more of a profound, you know, lack of stabilization, for a better way to put it. You know, what do you think? Yeah, no, I mean, I would definitely, like, agree with that. I don't see, you know, I don't see anything, like, you know, that I would disagree with there. It seems though that moisture probably has the biggest thing to do with it.

2:30:38SpeakerEven reintroducing moisture to dry material, you can get it too wet, but You know, throw a few Boveda packs in something that maybe wasn't getting you a good yield and see what happens with it. Yields, you know, dramatically change when we've done that. Right, right, right. Tony and I were pressing some buds at my house that were stored with Boveda 62% and we were getting good yields off of it.

2:31:05SpeakerWe were doing it off of green crack and I think the moisture level is hugely important for sure. Yeah, absolutely. There's a point of no return with pressing, it seems like, as far as the moisture content. If it's gotten too dry, then you're going to have to reintroduce moisture or something to get anything out of it. But the key is not to go to too dry, because if you go to too dry, you have evaporated off a lot of terpenes that you want.

2:31:33SpeakerSo the goal when I cure cannabis is to bring it down, but never go below where you want to go. Yeah, absolutely. And go slow down. You can't hide much with rosin, you know. There's not too many tricks with it. Well, you know what's interesting is like, and any of us have smoked it, I mean, there was de-waxing, I understand. You know, when we were running trim and we would want to pull away a lot of that excess cuticle layer that was on the leaf and just have the oils was one thing.

2:32:02SpeakerBut I'm sorry, I have tasted stuff that was waxed and not de-waxed. I like the taste and the terpenes that are in the wax that mix in with it. I realize it would be considered a contaminant when you go in for purification, but it's a contamination. It's part of the plant. I think it's part of that whole plant concept almost. It's adding that in. Rosin has some of those waxes that are on the leaf are smushing into the oils and coming with it.

2:32:33SpeakerI find rosin to be really satisfying to smoke because I started as a flower smoker. I still smoke flowers. And to me, it gives me a more full spectrum type of high with it.

2:32:51SpeakerIt's like a joiner. It's like vibing back to getting like a whole thing, yeah. Yeah, I also use it like, you know, medicinally for my stomach and rosin, rosin hits tend to actually give me relief whereas like a normal dab wouldn't. I'd have to reach for like a bong and smoke some flour. That's really cool. Yeah, there's something to be said for the whole plant. You know, when the scientific, you remember this, Mark, when the Federation of American Scientists back in 1994 came out with a position paper, they came out with whole raw cannabis, saying that the whole thing has to be taken into consideration and not just its parts.

2:33:29SpeakerAnd I've completely agreed with them ever since I kind of was You know, you've shown that view of it, and I still believe that we should be looking at it as a whole. And, you know, it was my friend Kenny that came over once when I was showing him some, you know, high THC chowder, and he was like, you know, though, he goes, I get it, that's cool.

2:33:46SpeakerHe goes, but if I showed up with a block of cheese, you know, if you ordered a pizza and I showed up with 92% cheese, would you feel like it was pizza? I mean, how much, you know, sauce and spices and dough has to be there for you to have that experience? And if you have that whole experience, that means your levels are going to be lower because you can't have 92% THC.

2:34:07SpeakerThat means you've got 8% everything else. What the fuck happened to everything else? And I think now we're all starting to look for where is everything else, where everything else is in the waxes, it is in the terpenes, it is in places I think we haven't even discussed yet. Who knows what we'll discover next year, you know? I also like the fact that we're getting into purity of things.

2:34:28SpeakerSo if you have pure... Everyone's doing distillate, pure THC, and you can do that off of flower rosin too. I think you'll see a lot of that in 2016. You know, I was doing it and been trying different things like that, but what I think you're going to see is getting to the purity of each element, and then, you know, people will be able to mix that.

2:34:51SpeakerTo be able to deconstruct it, to reconstruct it, to deconstruct it. It's like when we were little kids. I'd take apart everything you gave me. It didn't matter if it was that little remote control trick, six-wheel thing. That fucking thing came apart. Then I could get how it went together, and I just needed to know that. That's what we're doing with cannabis. We're taking it all apart, looking at all these pieces, cannabinoids, terpenes, And then the concept of putting it back together is really where our heads act.

2:35:18SpeakerBecause now I do want lower levels of THC so I can have higher levels of other things. Because now I'm starting to realize those other things are just as important as just the one thing, if that makes sense. Absolutely.

2:35:37SpeakerFor the reality, THC as a single molecule did shit in a way. It really got rejected by society. That's something that I don't think we should overlook when we're trying to make cannabis medicines. Now what we're doing when we're mixing together CBD and THC, we are mimicking nature way more than what pharmaceutical companies will ever do. If they're set out to make single molecule medicines, they'll never be able to do what we're doing here on the ground.

2:36:06SpeakerYou know, in our basements, in our homes, you know, and being able to help ourselves. I think it's fantastic. You've got to remember, too, the synthetic version is a mixture of both enantiomers, right? So there's a right-handed and a left-handed molecule, and only one of them is active, right? Only the plant only makes one of them. But the synthetic drobinol I think is a mixture, 50-50 mixture, racemic mixture of both of them.

2:36:40SpeakerSo the plant only makes one, but the drug company makes two. Half of it's inactive. Dr. That's really interesting. I do not honestly understand how they make synthetic drobinol, and I understand that it is not organic THC. It is a synthesized version of the THC molecule. I've used it in the past when I was going through my federal case and such, and I never found it to be very pleasant as a single, as whatever it was.

2:37:13SpeakerI mean, it got you high, but it got you edgy. It got you weird. It didn't feel great. You know what I mean? It wasn't like eating a brownie, to put it in a way that we can all understand. You know, a brownie created a different effect. So... I don't know. I think it's nice that now we're starting to take the whole thing apart and put it back together and have an interest in trying to reassemble things.

2:37:37SpeakerI find that extremely fascinating. If we can kind of get away from it all being a quarter mile race and who has the highest this or that or the other thing and start just vibing on things. I even wish that the contest would move away from being the best to almost celebrating the differences in the varietals. You know, dare I say it, you know what I mean?

2:37:59SpeakerBecause is there really one wine that's better than all the other wines if three or four of us like different bottles? You know what I mean? And that's kind of where I think I'd like to see the change in things happening. Todd, have you tried that garlic weed that I keep hearing about in like California? I think it's called Garlic's Breath. And I keep wondering what it really, the strain smells like.

2:38:24SpeakerGoing back 20 years and it's probably just a derivative to be real blunt. I mean, garlic bud was floating around a long time ago and it just had a pungent spice, you know, an oily spice to it. You know, I'd love to see a lot of these now if we start doing terpene identifications of flowers and seeing how close they are on the map to one another.

2:38:44SpeakerAnd I wonder how projects like Phylos and others that are doing DNA matching are going to match scents. You know, what do you think of that, Tony? I mean, do you think we could start mapping Senso and then start comparing cannabis strains by terpene as opposed to, or in addition to, I'd have to say, in addition to the way we're doing gene mapping? Yeah, I think 100%.

2:39:08SpeakerI was actually really curious about that, when people are doing genome mapping on the Tony, I wanted to ask you, because one of the things I fear is that, for instance, let's say we map it by the terpenes, and then you think about all the strains that, for instance, won't yield.

2:39:38SpeakerAnd then you're like, oh shit, was that the grower? Is that the genetics? If they tested with growers that didn't produce the magic, the strain would go down, missing so many terps that are, for instance, in the jar that most people don't experience. I kind of started to question, well, is all the weed that's going to be tested treated cold for the last two weeks, or is it all going to be grown hot?

2:40:00SpeakerHow much of cannabis is never, like how would you, how do we know we've fully represented the genetic potential to say that's what it should be and if it doesn't have this mercy and it hasn't been grown right. That's what I always struggle with is when do I know that genetic is expressing its perfection and then move on to the next genetic. Well I think that if you were growing let's say Gorilla Glue four times over in a year and you were able to master your environment, You would get really good data, and if you were doing good propagation, things were clean, and you look at all of those aspects, you say, okay, the plant's 100% healthy.

2:40:37SpeakerIt's 100% replication of what it's supposed to be. The environment is uber controlled. There wasn't any variances in four harvests in a row. And then you have to look at the percentage of yields on your extract, and if those are within 1% to 3% range either way, And the percentage of terpenes themselves, let's say the plant's producing 1.2% terpene percentage of volume in the flower, and then all of a sudden it hit three, and then it went back to two, and then it went to one, and nothing else changed, I'd be shocked.

2:41:14SpeakerSo if you were able to control all those parameters four times in a row, and you were able to track that and get all of the data and all the genome mapping and everything from the cultivation as well as That process, then you, I think, could identify and clearly say, this is Gorilla Glue. This is how it should be grown. That's what I'm saying, because I'm basing it on yield now.

2:41:38SpeakerI'm like, if these terpenes yield, this plant is expressing its perfection, because I've seen that same strain go from that 3% back to zero, and then I go in the guy's room, and then I see that he's got a section of his room that's vulnerable to a difference, where, okay, I see it's colder always by these first two lights, and then the rest of the room is hot on fire.

2:41:59SpeakerThat's kind of why it's not really about, I need the terpene, but If I'm getting a variance that goes up, I know I'm seeing better genetic potential that this plant is full. The THC content, all the other content is going to be there if these terpenes are present. I asked Rob the terpene question about if we could use it as indicators of, and go ahead. What we're trying to do with the Phyllis project is work, is genome sequencing, or a Differences in the genome to genetics, genetic content of different plants, different individuals, because that's what we're really looking at.

2:42:42SpeakerCannabinoids have been used for this for a long time. That was the chemotaxonomic marker that was first used. And then lots of labs used that. And then Carl Hillig added to this. At Indiana University in the early 20th century. Published in 2004 and 5. And one of the characters he used besides cannabinoids and terpenoids, he used terpenoids as well. And he used also isozymes. These are enzyme variations.

2:43:16SpeakerThey're the direct gene products or nearly direct gene products of isozymes. You know, they're the molecules that do the active work. They express the genes. And they looked at variations in those. Another way of chemotyping or using chemicals to do taxonomy, chemotaxonomy. Now the new way, of course, is with the genome sequencing. But back to terpenes. They are useful taxonomically. I can't steal other people's thunder, and they haven't managed to publish yet, so I'll just hint around.

2:43:47SpeakerBut there are terpene classes that have been identified. These are looking at the major terpenes, not the entire profile, but the most prominent terpenes in each group. What can I say here without saying too much? They're heritable. It's all very interesting, and a paper will be out soon that talks about this. On the other hand, for taxonomic use, they're very difficult. For the same reasons Suresh and everybody's explaining about differences in grow room, part of a grow room, being hotter or colder or whatever.

2:44:19SpeakerThe profiles of terpenes probably don't change as much as the absolute amounts, but the problem with that is terpenes are a varying volatility, so profiles change if all the monoterpenes are gone. But you're more likely to see that you have the same general profile, at least of the prominent cannabinoids, and the other ones vary more by epigenetic, environmental, whatever reasons. So for taxonomic characters, they're a little bit dodgy.

2:44:48SpeakerThis won't be stealing anybody's thunder, and I waited today to see if somebody from SC Labs came in, but they didn't. And I have a very fascinating paper in my hand here that I would like to share with people. SC was involved, so I was going to wait for them to get it, but it's really a paper primarily out of Nolan Cain and Brian Lynch's lab at University of Colorado Boulder.

2:45:11SpeakerThey're genome guys, and they've managed to put together a number of data sets for a Mostly drug varieties. They have a few, one Chinese hemp variety, what would be broadleaf hemp maybe, sort of an outgroup in the experiment. They've done a really interesting job here. It's on a cursory level. It's hard to match data sets. They're the first people to use the NLD, BLD, Nomenclature that Mark Merlin and I developed from Carl Hillig's work and John McPartland's and others.

2:45:47SpeakerAnd it's interesting to see that more of a genome look at the taxonomy rather than just individual relationships. So this is a cool paper. And Steve Hill did the analyzes of cannabinoids and terpenoids in many of the samples. And that was taken into account also. So back to the use of terpenes and taxonomy. It's the latest overlay of the paper. It mentions relationships rather than general relationships rather than fine-tuning things.

2:46:21SpeakerSo that's kind of where we're at with terpenes, taxonomy, and things. This paper's called Genomic and Chemical Diversity in Cannabis. It just came out last week, and It is... It's put on Bio... Bio R14 preprint. I'm not sure what journal this is actually in. This is a preprint copy. It's a manuscript copy. I'll... Anyway, you'll find it. Just search Genomic and Chemical Diversity in Cannabis. It's a quote, sir.

2:47:00SpeakerYou'll find it. It's Ryan Lynch, L-Y-N-C-H. Is the primary author. Nolan Cain is the last author. It's his lab. So, yeah, it's good stuff. And this is, this is, all these labs are doing this. We have this tremendous, Mowgli and I gave our little presentation about taxonomy and the phylos project. And then Mowgli and I sat the next day, on Sunday, on what they call the genetics panel discussion.

2:47:29SpeakerModerated by Michael Bacchus, a real smart guy, and one of his colleagues, Brian Lee, was sitting on the panel as well, another real smart guy, and a breeder, and known as Chimera to many of you. And also on this panel were some three really awesome guys. There's Mowgli Holmes from Phyllis Bioscience, there's John Page from University of British Columbia, and I believe I got the affiliations right.

2:47:57SpeakerAnd Kevin McKernan from Medicinal Genomics. These are all three more extremely bright guys, and they're all working hands-on with the cannabis genome. I wish we'd invited Nolan Cain as well. There was a really good level of science on many fronts at the Emerald Cup this year. It was really refreshing to see there are a lot of panels about serious things. Not just political, which is a big issue in California right now, but also the science front.

2:48:28SpeakerWhat these guys basically explained was that it's not a big search for genes, at least not within this group. It's not a big search for intellectual property. There will come a time when you can patent cannabis plants in America under the system we already have. There may come a time before that when our industry develops its own patenting system. But that's not what this is about. What this is about is making gene sequences from cannabis open source, to bring them into public domain.

2:49:06SpeakerThis is what's happened naturally for years and years. Growers are proud, breeders are proud of their new varieties, and they share them with their friends. That instantly makes them public domain. There are very few Cannabis varieties that people have kept close to the chest, whose wives have said to them 10 years ago, don't give this to anybody. You know, whatever. All well meant. All very good. Thank you, Chad.

2:49:32SpeakerBut that's not what this is about. What we're about is making it public domain so that it's everybody's, not anybody's. Meaning that it's for the entire community and nobody can cubbyhole that and say, It's mine only. And that could be anybody. That could be agribusiness, that could be big pharmas, people choose to call it, or it could be you, you know, the breeder, some individual person. That's a very sticky, difficult, slippery slope, really.

2:50:07SpeakerIt's a... Takes a lot of money to defend your intellectual property rights through the patenting system, and long and short of it, if a big company wants to steal it from you, you can't really outgun them anyway. They have more resources than you do. So a better way to protect is what was presently being called defensive intellectual property rights protection, and that is nearly free. You just submit varieties to a group that is going to publish those sequences.

2:50:36SpeakerAny one of these groups might be able to help you with that. Phyllis Bioscience certainly is. We're also sponsoring something called the Open Canvas Project, and that is exactly that, an open forum for not only publishing gene sequences, but also discussing sticky issues like what is a cush, or things of this nature. And with Maura, Genetic evidence, we have more ways to entertain this discourse about what varieties are.

2:51:13SpeakerI'd also like to see something that's all suggested openly now. I don't see why not. It's not that big an idea. I'd like to see a forum set up by the Open Cannabis Project that is set up like Hash Church, because this works so well. This is brilliant. You begin possibly with people weighing in maybe... Sam the Skunk Man can talk about what skunk number one is.

2:51:36SpeakerYou know, some knowns, as you would say in a scientific experiment. Ease into this, you know. Talk about the haze. Talk about some other ones that are older building blocks, things where the histories are quite known, or if they're controversial, at least they can be resolved by somebody who was there. You know, something like that. So, a forum like this would be good. It would keep people from getting in fights in the back of the room and Once that people see what's going on with the old standard varieties and maybe if you land race discussions even, then you can get into the fuel.

2:52:09SpeakerYou can get into the fire. You can get into all the stuff you guys are all wise, whizzed out about. So yeah, that's it. That's pretty much the intellectual property rights thing, some terpenes, and that's it. Thank you. Well, it's interesting.

2:52:23BubblemanYou'd mentioned Chimera. I spoke with him the other day. He was the one who got me on to Alec from SC Labs, who was supposed to come in today and talk a little bit about the microbial and the pesticide testing. But it looks like both of them maybe will be better fit for next Sunday, so I'm not sure if you're going to be around, Rob, but if you are, you're welcome to come in and be a part of that conversation.

2:52:44BubblemanThey'll be talking about all the things you sort of just highlighted.

2:52:54CubanHey guys.

2:52:58CubanMarcel! What's up? Is this a good time to give you guys a little update on my whole project?

2:53:05BubblemanYeah, it was a pause. I think a pause is usually a good time to jump in.

2:53:08CubanOh, hell yeah. So, yeah. Let me just screen share over this video that we did. This is our first trailer video. I've shown it around a little bit here and there, but... This is kind of our final edit, and it basically breaks down the interactive art project concept that we're asking people to participate in. And that's the best way to really look at this project, is like an interactive art project experiment, you know, like just experimental.

2:53:44CubanSo here we go.

2:53:45BubblemanHey, just one quick question. The music that is played in the background, it's not copyrighted music, is it?

2:53:52CubanUh, nope. I, well, no, I don't think so.

2:53:55BubblemanOkay, make sure, because it'll make this hash church not be able to be seen by anyone if it is. Uh, so... That's the major thing I just had to say before you went and put a video on, just because I just thought, I don't remember what the music was in the background. I just know that if it's not yours and you don't own it...

2:54:15CubanIt's credited by Dan Collins. Or you could kill the music podcast. It's the friend of the editor, so I'm fairly certain it's not going to be a problem.

2:54:25BubblemanAll right, well, I mean...

2:54:27CubanIf it, uh... I mean, am I putting the whole Hash Church in jeopardy if this is like, it's not like a popular or it's not like an episode.

2:54:35BubblemanThe episode would be not available if it's a copyrighted thing and it's impossible to know. I've had big songs, I've had small songs. I think the best way to do it would be to show it without the music. I think that's the safest bet. Just put it without the sound and then you can talk in the background if you even like it.

2:54:55CubanOh, man. I can throw a shout-out to Dan real quick.

2:55:02CubanYeah. Well, fuck that. Yeah, so how do I do that? Just turn the volume down on my screen?

2:55:09BubblemanYeah, just turn your volume down so the video doesn't have volume. I hate to do it, but I have to say, like, man, I've had videos shut down for just 10 seconds of a riff.

2:55:21CubanRight, well there was some really good info here, so I don't think it would be a good idea to put that out.

2:55:27BubblemanWell, exactly, and you can also tell people that they can go here and watch it as well if they want that Projects 33 Starport teaser. You can hit Marcel up, or I think you might have put the password in the hashtag.

2:55:40CubanWe took the password away like an hour ago. Oh, okay. So my question is, is there a mute key on this?

2:55:48BubblemanNo, it's right beside HD. You have to take those blue lines and make them white or black, whatever, exactly. There you go. All right, here we go. All right. All right, guys. Man, look at you with the screen sharing.

2:56:03CubanI figured it out. I was going to ask you, and then I just started looking.

2:56:12SpeakerIf you tell me how the music goes, I'll play it.

2:56:25CubanThere you go. I like it.

2:56:31SpeakerIs this playing or what? Are you guys seeing? Why don't we just talk about the video and, you know, when you can put a link to it, put a link in the Facebook chat. This is kind of silly. I mean, you know, you were part of the movie. What is it you're going to show us? I mean, can't you talk about it? Trust me, I've made a couple movies.

2:56:48SpeakerI could sit here for four hours talking to you about them.

2:56:53CubanWell, you know, I guess my... How do I stop this strange...

2:56:59BubblemanIt's technical difficulties on Hash Church. Well, I saw it. It was a cool... It wasn't like a... It was all like graphic. It was all like, you know, basically like a cool little...

2:57:09CubanWhat were you guys seeing on your screens? I guess I thought...

2:57:12BubblemanNothing. It just showed Project 33. It showed the Vimeo box, and it said play, and it said one second, and it wasn't playing.

2:57:24CubanWeird. Interesting.

2:57:27BubblemanIt's all good. It happens. We should have probably checked it out. I've never really done many screen sharings or YouTube videos in here that have worked. I tried when we were first doing it to do it, and it just wouldn't work for me. But if you put the link up in Hash Church and let people know that they can go check it out, I think it's probably the best bet.

2:57:46CubanAll right. Well, it's like a minute and 30 seconds, so...

2:57:51BubblemanYeah, it's short. I watched it just the other day when you sent it to me. I thought it was cool and put together. It was basically an explanation of Marcel's sacred economy with the coins.

2:58:01CubanThere's a link about four posts down, five posts down in the Hash Church already. I put it up maybe half an hour ago. Yeah, I saw it there. Nice. So if you guys feel like checking it out, check it out, you know. Sorry about the technical difficulties.

2:58:20BubblemanOh, don't worry about it, brother. It happens. Usually the worst technical difficulties we've had were when we wanted people to come in, like we were really excited to have Lester come in, and then it was like Mike wouldn't work for the first ten minutes that he was in. It was like, no, make it work. So don't worry about it. It's all good. We're back to Hash, and I think we should have a big old rip.

2:58:41BubblemanI think we lost the Bizarre Brothers and Tony. They're probably like... Making hash or doing something or other. I'm going to hit some of this D420K dry sift that tastes like Cali-O.

2:58:55SpeakerI really want to hear about Johnny B's trial and error testing with what he has going on right now.

2:59:00BubblemanI hope he signs in with us.

2:59:03SpeakerHe broke his elbow the other day. That sucks. I'm sorry to hear that, Johnny. Yeah, he's relaxing.

2:59:13EtienneI don't play with my brothers.

2:59:26SpeakerAlright.

2:59:29BubblemanA quick little bong rip will take care of everything. Yeah, I'm stoked to get into, I really wanted to get into that microbial conversation today with Alec. It doesn't seem like he's going to be able to make it today, but hopefully him and Ryan will come in next week and we can discuss that because I think there's a lot to be said. And I find it really interesting that level of, you know, these guys are getting into the science of it.

2:59:56BubblemanAnd I think the one gentleman had, in fact, discovered some symbiotic bacterias, some microbials that are symbiotic to the cannabis plant that could potentially, you know, trigger a failure, but it's not actually triggering a failure on, you know, one of the microbials you would want to be looking out for on cannabis. Yeah.

3:00:21SpeakerWe got it going on.

3:00:30BubblemanWell, God, I almost feel like I'm waiting for another infusement of knowledge to be passed around or I could cut past church an hour short today and get on with this important shit that I have to do. I have not done any type of shopping at all, which is... Not good considering I have a family. I should probably go get them at least a car or something.

3:00:53BubblemanMaybe a load of coal or something.

3:00:55SpeakerI gotta run too. Rob's only here for a couple more hours and he flies away so he made his flight later so he could join us which I thought was cool.

3:01:04BubblemanWell thank you so much Rob and Todd. Always appreciate when you help bring those guys in, when you help facilitate them to be able to be here. I really do appreciate it and I know everyone else does as well. He's going to come say goodbye to you. That's great.

3:01:18SpeakerHey, my pleasure to be here. A little bit rough voice today. Maybe next Sunday too, we'll see.

3:01:27BubblemanI hope so. And we'll try to keep the conversation up to par for Bubba Robb. It's a high level of knowledge.

3:01:38SpeakerIt's excellent.

3:01:39BubblemanVery good. Absolutely. Yeah, I think I'm going to do it. I think I'm going to cut short myself. Todd and Rob are off. I want to thank Horatio and Mark Scaldone and Tony Terpine for coming in. Bobby Nuggs for representing on the East Coast over there for us. And watch for his article coming out in Relief Magazine. I know he's always got an article coming out, so watch for that.

3:02:02SpeakerIt's your article, so.

3:02:04BubblemanOh, well, there you go. Then definitely check it out. We did an article together. It'll be fun stuff. Thanks, Smash, for coming in and sharing your rosin tech with us and being open with the people. And, of course, Marcel, always a pleasure. You want to sing us out there, Mark Scaldoni?

3:02:20SpeakerJerry, should I?

3:02:21BubblemanI think you definitely should, bro.

3:02:47SpeakerGo down, brother.