Cannabis Hangovers and Leaky Gut Syndrome

0:00BubblemanHello everybody and welcome to episode 108 of Hash Church. I'm slightly hungover, I'm not going to lie. Last night was a lot of good puffing, a lot of dabs, some hash joints, and when I say hash joints, I mean those real, real pure ones that you saw me smoking on my channel so long ago. So I'm just going to send out... I guess I'm going to send out all the messages here.

0:29BubblemanThere we go. So we'll send this out to our panel. We'll send some emails out to Mr. Indra and Mr. Subcool. And then there's always the Skype one that I tend to forget. We're to Chimera. Everyone's a part of this today. I hope everyone's doing well, by the way, out there. I had a great evening last night with Dr. Natasha and her boyfriend, Dave, and we ended up with Ed Rosenthal and his wife, Jane, and we went and saw Paul Stamets.

1:02BubblemanI picked up his new book. Very good, very good. Welcome, Mr. Skunk Man, Sam. Howdy, howdy. Yeah, just talking about how I went and saw Paul Stamets speak last night. He's figuring out a new mushroom toxin that affects these mites that are killing bumblebees. Pretty cool conversation. Welcome, John. Indra. Good morning. In the house. Good morning, good morning, good morning. Man, I just finished the ICBC conference here in Vancouver.

1:44BubblemanWelcome, Etienne.

1:46Etienne FontanWelcome, welcome. Well, you know, bees are key. Bees are key.

1:52BubblemanWhy are you cutting out on us?

1:58BubblemanYou there?

2:01SpeakerI hear him cutting out too.

2:03BubblemanYeah, he sort of did a weird bizarre... Anyway, it was amazing, and I suggest anyone that hasn't picked up Mycelium Running, How Mushrooms Can Save the World. This is a pretty incredible book, and definitely worth picking up. Paul was kind enough to sign it for me last night.

2:28Etienne FontanMushrooms are key in this society. That's what I was trying to say earlier, but I had my other... Audio on, so I was getting a little feedback, so I had to adjust that.

2:37BubblemanAh, very good, Etienne. We're back. Hello, Mr. John Burr Fellow. You made it to Calgary.

2:44SpeakerI made it to Calgary. Wow. Let me tell you, the Calgary Hat Fest, Mark, amazing. The people here and the consumers, they want it. They're hungry for cannabis here. It's amazing. It was a great turnout, I have to say. Thumbs up to Calgary. How many people showed up? Thousands. It was packed. It was like bees. They were like everywhere. That's awesome. Well, I'm sure you've got lots of pictures to share with us.

3:07SpeakerI'm sure there was a few. I didn't have a chance. I was so busy. But, you know, good morning, everybody. It's great to see you guys.

3:13BubblemanMan, I'm glad you made it to Calgary. I know you were a little worried that you were not going to end up making it to your team there that you had sent ahead of you. So that's great that you ended up making it up there.

3:23SpeakerWell, that hurricane that hit the West Coast there, well, almost, was pretty intense. All the ferries got shut down. Thank you for joining us.

3:47BubblemanFrom the trade show and the expos that we do on the regular, but man, it was great. Lots of good people from all around, lots of people from different levels, from dispensaries to home grows to applying to be LPs, giant multinational corporation LPs, like they had the whole gamut. Basically covered, so I appreciated that. There were some great speakers. I recorded Dr. Gabor Mate speaking on addiction.

4:14BubblemanHope we get to put that up on Bubble Man's World eventually. I recorded Tommy Chong, which I'd never seen Tommy before. Speak before I'd never met Tommy before. I was pleasantly surprised. What a very nice man. And his stories were just so very enjoyable to listen to and very just innocent but out there. I mean, some of the terms that he was using, just people were like, oh my gosh, I don't think he can say that.

4:41Etienne FontanHe's very matter-of-factly.

4:43BubblemanTommy Chong, Ken.

4:45Etienne FontanYeah, and again, he's just the nicest guy in person as, you know, as he is in the movies. He's highly intelligent, you know, opposite of the dumb stoner that he plays. And his stories, as you say, are, you know, you heard me tell one a few weeks ago about his daughter. So he's very willing to share willingly of his life.

5:04BubblemanYeah, absolutely. Well, he shared a lot of his life. He talked, you know, it was neat to see him in Vancouver because, of course, you know, that's when he was in Calgary as a young man and they kind of were the undesirables. They ended up getting the boot out of Calgary literally from the police chief being told, you guys really need to leave. And they said there's an old saying in Calgary, anytime you get a reason to leave, And that's where he got into music and did all the Motown stuff and met Jimi Hendrix and helped sign the Jackson 5 to Motown.

5:41BubblemanLike the stories were just completely insane and fun to listen to. I really, really enjoyed it. So I also recorded some of that and I will hopefully get that up on Bubble Man's World as well. So welcome, Mark Scaldone.

5:58Mark ScaldoneI'm muted. Oh, there I am. Mike, can you hear me? Hey, what's up?

6:03BubblemanWelcome, dude. You know, it's funny. This week, I moderated a panel on extractions for the ICBC, and I was a bit nervous because the panel consisted of Anthony from Apex Supercritical, and the panel consisted of Nenad Yashruti,

6:24BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

6:53BubblemanFeel like he was being attacked, but being able to, you know, with a real easy dialogues. Yeah, you know, there's circle grade or of a... Thank you for joining us.

7:25BubblemanHopefully I'll get some of that up as well. I believe my friend Happy was recording the entire thing. So definitely a couple of good panels to share on Bubble Man's World and I think that you guys will all enjoy it. I did put up one from John Conroy, Robert W. E. Lorry, and Kirk Toussaint, the three main lawyers here in Canada. Thank you for joining us.

8:03BubblemanCanadian program from MMAR to MMPR to ACMPR. And I think that any Canadian that wants to find out what's been happening, what's happening, and what may happen will want to go check that out on Bubble Man's World as well, which is the most recent video uploaded. And those guys definitely, they laid it out pretty good. It's a good panel. That's what I'll say about that. Cool.

8:27SpeakerIt would be great for you to talk about the mission of Bubble Man's World.

8:32BubblemanYeah, you know, like being a moderator and being someone who would be considered biased for their processes, obviously we're all considered biased for the things that we do and promote. But I didn't want to come across like that. I really wanted to be a moderator, not take over the panel and try to talk about water or whatever the things that I... I wanted to be able to be a monitor and actually focus on facilitating conversation between the actual panelists.

9:00BubblemanSo it was good. It went off well. I would have loved to have Tony here to be on the panel, but he was literally on a terpene panel the next day at the Hyatt Regency in San Francisco, which was interesting because we were at the Hyatt Regency in Vancouver. So, kind of funny and coincidence there.

9:18Mark ScaldoneWas there a discussion about the butane mystery oil, which I think is probably a different mystery oil than what's in CO2, right? No, I'm not sure.

9:26BubblemanI think it's the same oil because it's a lubricant that is used between the nozzles and the canisters. When they're plugging in to fill them up, there's this lubricant that's used to show I couldn't 100%. I believe it's very hard to find out what these oils are because they have their sort of secret trademark recipe on these oil mixtures. When you go to test them and try to find out what there is, at least this is what Khalid told us when he was in here speaking about the oil he first found in BHO canisters and then moving on to CO2 and then he started distilling that and finding it present in there as well.

10:04BubblemanDefinitely something I asked the molecular distillation guy, Nenad, saying, you know, I know that, you know, unfortunately pesticides have very much the same boiling point temperatures as cannabinoids. Molecular distillation tends to concentrate them. It doesn't actually remove those particular pesticides. But I was asking, and he didn't exactly know, that potentially maybe those mystery oils could be cleaned out in that molecular distiller, that short path molecular distillation unit.

10:35BubblemanAnd if so, and if you were able to remove these contaminants from your oil, are these toxic wastes and do we owe ourselves the responsibility of removing them properly, i.e. getting rid of them properly? It's not something you could maybe just throw into your garbage. If you're concentrating toxic waste out of oil, you know, I think they got these guys, the small unit does 1,000 grams of distillate an hour.

11:01BubblemanAnd, you know, they've got 10 kilo ones. And then he's like, I can build one six stories high that does as much as you want. So I thought, wouldn't that be fun, Mark, if we could put on scuba diving outfits and go inside of a short path molecular distillation unit with the oil spinning around us, just sitting in the chamber.

11:19Mark ScaldoneOh, it's much too hot. It's much too hot. And I'd rather be inside John's extractor.

11:24BubblemanWell, absolutely.

11:25Mark ScaldoneWith all the bubbles bursting and crystals showering us, it would be a much better place to be.

11:32BubblemanWe could all fit in his. Probably, yeah.

11:36Mark ScaldoneThe 2,500-kilo one, right?

11:38BubblemanI think we could fit the panel in his capture chamber.

11:42Mark ScaldoneYeah. I think the secret, Mark, is to make sure that the pesticide residues are out of what you're putting into your distillation pot in your short path. You're spending an awful lot of money on that. On that unit, and to me, to put anything that has residual pesticide residue into the boiling pot it out is just a crime. So you should use chromatography or ways of scrubbing the stuff that you're putting in there and making sure that there's no pesticide residues in there to begin with.

12:13Mark ScaldoneSo if you're starting with some kind of extraction or something, maybe you can, again, run that through a filtration process to make sure that there's no residues at that point. You're absolutely right. Just based on the boiling points alone, these things are high molecular weight, and a lot of them aren't meant to distill. They're going to degrade into degradation components, which are going to distill, and that's even worse.

12:37Mark ScaldoneThe other point I wanted to bring up, Mark, you were talking about grease. Some folks in their short path are finding little slugs of things that don't dissolve. And sometimes even grease can get into just even your regulatory laboratory short path because you have to grease all of those joints. And typically they use the Dow Corning clear stopcock grease, which is a great high vacuum grease. But yeah, anything that's nonpolar is going to dissolve that.

13:04Mark ScaldoneAnd you'll see slight residues of vacuum grease in your distillates.

13:11SpeakerThis is the whole reason why in the beginning I chose to use medical grade gases and medical grade gases didn't seem to have this contamination problem. And then further down the road I found the guy who had this private well in the middle of nowhere and I got gas from him and it never... Thank you for watching.

13:57SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

14:23SpeakerThat has kept the stuff clean enough so that I've been able to pass nuclear magnetic resonance tests for the past 10 years. And I think that's about as tough as it gets NMR.

14:37Etienne FontanJohn, when it came to that gas, was that how he extracted it or how he filtered it or how it came originally?

14:45SpeakerIt probably came in their tanks because they lubricate the tanks are usually like snap-on fittings and they're made of brass and steel and it's ice cold and so they put lube on them to connect the tank to your storage tank. And that's why I say you're probably better off to construct what I call a sweetener filter, which is the one I just described. And that will generally... And then the other thing, but Todd can ring in on this, a way I've run across to clean it or to clean the extract is to go ahead and...

15:31SpeakerTake the extract and immerse it in the liquid nitrogen until it shatters to a very fine powder and just keep doing that and doing that. Keep grinding it until it shatters and then just set it on the porch and let the nitrogen go off and it'll relax back into oil again and pretty much a lot of the nasties will matriculate out with the nitrogen as it dissolves back into the air and it'll clean up your Extract until you can manage to find a way to afford one of mine anyhow.

16:10BubblemanYes, you know, constantly, constantly getting cool side messages. Hey, welcome, Dr. Natasha. How are you doing this morning?

16:18DrHi.

16:19Etienne FontanWelcome, Dr. Rice.

16:21BubblemanWelcome, Dr. Rice. I woke up really hungover from last night's dab sesh, hash joint, whatever session. Feeling a little red today after Paul's inspirational talk.

16:34Mark ScaldoneWell, here's a question for the doctor then. Is there a chemical basis for a cannabis hangover? You know, we know the rationale behind the alcohol hangover. There's oxidation that's happening to the alcohol that turns it into an aldehyde, and aldehydes generally are nasty, and there's all kinds of downstream responses. Is there a chemical, biochemical basis for a cannabis hangover? Doctor?

17:00DrJust putting me on the spot right off the bat.

17:03Etienne FontanI'm sorry. Everyone here on the panel has had it anecdotally, so we'd like to hear the doctor's breakdown.

17:12DrI honestly don't have an answer for that, so...

17:16Etienne FontanI don't know. There has to be because I know we've all experienced oversaturation, Bubble Man, I know Tony, all of us have experienced this.

17:25Mark ScaldoneThe one hangover that I'd like to share is that when I drop my tolerance, when I, for whatever reason, just am not consuming at the regular rate that I do, and then all of a sudden I start consuming it again, Especially flour, in particular flour. In fact, only flour. When I stop for a while, lower my tolerance, and I go back to consuming flour, I usually wake up with a pounding headache.

17:52Mark ScaldoneI don't know why, so when I go through that, just for good measures, I drop a couple ibuprofen before I go to sleep, and that usually takes care of it. Possibly dehydration? I wonder if you, I wonder if it's just based on an anti-inflammatory vasodilation kind of thing that just happens that when your tolerance drops, you're lowering your cannabinoids there that are responsible for the circulation that happens in your brain.

18:20Mark ScaldoneAnd so now we're suffering from some minor hypoxia. I don't know. Just a theory.

18:26SpeakerThat's a way of telling you don't stop smoking. I take it that... Mark, could it be the fact that you put your ibuprofen on a pint of vanilla ice cream?

18:42DrWell, the fact that you're saying that the ibuprofen is helping with that situation does seem to, like you're saying, that it probably is something to do with inflammation, so we may not know the exact cause or what the You know mechanism or whatever and I mean it might be something like you're saying it's whole plant usually so it's probably maybe a terpene or a terpenoid or maybe it's certain a strain that you're consuming but if it is an inflammatory kind of thing then you can do something about it right and when you said you were taking an NSAID or an Advil I was cringing because I'm like no.

19:22DrBecause when you take those kind of compounds, once in a while, okay, but if you're taking them consistently, there is a big issue of leaky gut. So I'm always thinking of other ways to target that inflammatory process. So I just want to suggest trying something like turmeric or, you know, an alternative to an NSAID if you're feeling your cannabis hangover. Keep it plant-based first.

19:45BubblemanThere must be a mushroom intake. I mean, there must be. It's called psilocybin. Oh, love me. Well, philosophy.

19:58Mark ScaldoneThe non-medical way, or not that it's non-medical, but the non-pill way of me curing my headaches is I have a couple pressure points and what I do is I just, if I hold my thumbs here, like here, like right by my temples, but sort of just over by my ears, what I can do is when I pull that away after holding that for like about, I don't know, a minute or so, I feel a rush of blood to the head that sometimes can just instantly kick a headache.

20:25DrThere's a good spot back here, too, Mark. There's a really good pressure point in this spot here that's amazing for headaches, too, and similar.

20:33Etienne FontanIs it right by the medulla and bongata?

20:35DrI guess so, yeah. I'm not a brain person. I can't necessarily get into all the brain geekiness. I'm a gut person, so. But the part here, when it's hitting that pressure point in conjunction with that one, and then there's also some pressure points by your nose. Right, right. And the ones on your thumb, did you try that one?

20:55Mark ScaldoneNo, where's that?

20:56DrOh my goodness. So there's some right here. And then there's another pressure point. It's like here. And it's for headache also. And if you can't get it because you're feeling like anxious and headachy, you can just do this and rub your wrists together. And that's a very effective like nausea, headache one also, if you're doing all those. And then if you combine, if you want to get extra awesome, like do like lavender, peppermint, spearmint, something like that.

21:24Etienne FontanHey doctor, somebody was asking, what is leaky gut?

21:29DrOh. Yay, my favorite topic. Okay, so leaky gut is, I mean, there's a lot of different ways to describe it, but basically what's happening is something is happening along your gut barrier, and that could be anywhere from your mouth to your anus, like anywhere along that whole digestive tract, there can be damage to the surface barrier. The whole gastrointestinal tract is covered by basically a single layer of epithelial cells and this is actually a quite single layer and this layer has to protect you from the outside world.

22:06DrThere's also a layer of mucus overlying this but unless you're, like most people have problems with their mucus layer because you need to be eating a good fiber diet, you need to have a good bacteria microflora to get that mucus layer really Thank you so much for joining us.

22:47DrThanks for watching.

23:03DrThank you for joining us.

23:27DrAnd there's some interesting studies showing that things like exercise, heavy exercise can actually cause an issue and Can aggravate further aggravate alcohol induced gut damage. So there's this trend of people doing these like marathon beer runs and such and that's and then like you're saying oh and then I'm in some pain and I know I used to do this when I was younger you know you drink too much alcohol you don't want a headache in the morning so you're like oh pop some ibuprofen or Tylenol no big deal but that together has a dangerous cumulative effect where it can even further gut damage.

24:05DrSo a lot of people who are, you know, drinking a lot and partying and then they start slowly getting diarrhea as the days go on and then people start, you know, and then you're eating fast food like McDonald's because whatever, that's what you do when you're drunk. And then that further aggravates the damage because there's things in fast foods like certain fiber additives that are made to like as bulking agents and to make things, you Like as fat replacers because there's this old fear of fat that, you know, now thankfully going away.

24:38DrBut all these little fiber additives to replace fat and sugar replacements, they fuck with your gut bacteria in a big way. So there's like a lot of animal research showing this, that when they feed them these, like maltodextrin, for instance, that's a big one. That's also found in some certain sugar alternatives like, what is it called? I can't even remember what it's called. People put it in their coffee all the time.

25:06DrIt's like one of the major ones. Dr. Sucralose? Dr.

25:08BubblemanYes, sucralose.

25:09DrThere we go, sucralose. Dr.

25:11Mark ScaldoneSucralose is not good. It's a chlorinated sugar. You don't want to have that in your body at all. Chlorine is not good.

25:18DrDr. No, but the reason that I know of why it's not good is it can increase the risk of bad bacteria in your gut. The bacteria in our gut eat all these different things. And why I'm talking about bacteria is because our bacteria population, again, plays a very important role in that leaky gut barrier. So if you... To have an awesome, like strong gut, you need basically a healthy diet.

25:45DrYou need healthy, you need enough vitamin D, you need enough magnesium, you need enough vitamin A, like all these little things just to keep those cells tight and happy. And even zinc, like if you're a little bit zinc deficient, properly. So there's so many different things that can disrupt this barrier. I measure this. In animal studies, it's one thing. There's a number of different ways we can measure it.

26:08DrBut in humans, what they do is they give them this sugar drink, which contains like three different probes. So there's different sugars that are absorbed in different areas of your gut. So there's some that can be absorbed into your stomach. There's some that are absorbed in the small intestine. And then there's certain fibers they put into this blend that are dissolved by bacteria in the colon. And then that's where they're absorbed.

26:31DrSo what they do is they give patients this sugar drink and then they measure their urine and they measure all these different sugar probes. And what happens is depending on how leaky your gut is, these sugar probes can then cross the gut barrier and then end up in the urine. So you drink this sugar probe, wait 24 hours, or I can't remember what the exact time is, and then they measure your urine.

26:55DrAnd then depending, if you have high amounts of these certain sugar probes, they can kind of say like, oh, the gut damage might be in your stomach, or it might be more lower in your gut. I mean, this is still pretty rough, but... They've done studies where they show that people eating certain diets or, like I was saying before, those exercise and alcohol kind of experiments, when they do those things, their gut barrier changes.

27:18DrAnd so we can actually do functional measures of this. So this, I know this is like a really big new agey topic is leaky gut. And so a lot of people kind of think it's like silliness, but it is not. This is a real thing. And when you have... The beginnings of these gut damage, what happens is you get little bits of your bacteria products and things you eat that's supposed to not be in you, they start leaking into your body.

27:43DrAnd so a big one is a compound called LPS or lipopolysaccharide. This is found on the surface of gram-negative bacteria, so like E. coli, just regular bacteria that are in your gut. But when this compound crosses into your body, it causes inflammation because it's not supposed to be there. And so most people are suffering from something called just low chronic low-grade inflammation and so they have you know not a ton of damage to their gut but a little bit there's little bits of this LPS compound leaking through because there's always bacteria so if you have bad bacteria and good bacteria there's always this like Thank you for joining us.

28:45DrBut most people are suffering from at least some low-grade level of gut damage. And when they start altering their... This is an interesting one because a lot of people think they're being healthy by exercising. And it's great. Yes, do exercise. But if you are typically sedentary and do not exercise, If you all of a sudden do some really heavy exercise, there's also a risk of damaging your gut.

29:08DrSo I'm always encouraging people, yes, do exercise, but ease into it. And so a really important thing that can happen when all of these things are getting into your gut, all these little bits of bacteria, you're getting chronic inflammation, Anxiety and depression. So a lot of people who are, this might be the only symptom you have and you might feel really off and you're like, like I know Darren posted on his Facebook yesterday having some issues with anxiety and saying like, you know, my day is fine, everything with my family is fine, why am I still feeling this anxiety?

29:40DrAnd a big thing with anxiety is people are trying to connect it with something that's happening in their external reality and like so you know you feel this feeling and then you start scanning and you're like okay why am I feeling this there must be something wrong there must be something wrong and then when you find nothing wrong you're like what the heck is going on but a lot of the time like what's happening with these builds up of anxiety or emotions is the feeling is coming and then we attach it to something and then we tell ourselves a story like oh I must be feeling this because of this But if we just focus on that feeling and that anxiety, we can sometimes get rid of it without having to, you know, bring in some make-believe image of why it's connected to it.

30:19DrAnd so anyway, bringing this back to the gut and bacteria, so there's actually like a clinical trial where it's a small clinical trial where they showed in healthy men consuming, I'll have to look up exactly what the probiotic blend was, but it had a bifidobacteria and a lactobacillus. So these are just Thank you so much for joining us.

31:05DrYour hormones get mixed up. Your stress hormones go up. So in this probiotic study, they showed that serum cortisol levels actually reduced after taking this probiotic supplement. So that's one thing that people can do is try to get their gut healthy to help with anxiety. And it seems very...

31:25Mark ScaldoneCan I ask a question? Absolutely. This is something that I'm really concerned about, and that is the broad use of broad spectrum antimicrobials. They're putting things like triclosan, which is a fatty acid biosynthesis inhibitor, into soap. For Christ's sake, soap does not need an antimicrobial agent. This is all just bullshit and spin marketing. The fact that you're making soaps antimicrobial is just… It insults my chemical intelligence.

31:55Mark ScaldoneAgain, the widespread use of even orally taken antibiotics, amoxicillin, all of these things are basically going to wipe out those beneficial bacteria that you talk about. That's why I think before you take antibiotics or before you use your consumer power in buying an antimicrobial soap, you don't need antimicrobial soap. It's like throwing sand down at the beach. There is, you ever see bugs growing on soap? Soap is used to kill bacteria.

32:27Mark ScaldoneYou don't need any microbial agents in there. So I think we really need to be wise consumers and certainly not buy any microbial agents Anything if you don't need it, right? Absolutely. Absolutely.

32:40SpeakerDr. Natasha, I'd like to just toss one thing in here because I saw a lot of people on this side thing asking that they had Crohn's disease and because of the Crohn's disease, they were having a lot of sinus headaches. And you mentioned a couple of pressure points, but I would like to, from 30 years of experience, toss a pressure point in. Thank you so much for joining us today.

33:23SpeakerAnd follow those four fingers down directly underneath it and then probe around with your finger right there and you'll feel a very sore spot and that spot is the triple warmer. And the triple warmer is one of the major problems Thank you for joining us.

33:57SpeakerI read a terrible report on the efficacy and use of rats and other animals in medical experiments that pointed out how constructed those studies were and how the flaws in them pretty much negate all of it. So at some point in time, I'd like to send you the article about that because those poor rats, you know, I've lost some sleep over that after the last time we talked about that.

34:23SpeakerAnd otherwise, hi, glad to see you here.

34:29DrOkay, so your first point, that pressure point, very interesting because I use that pressure point. I didn't know it could do things for sinus infections, but I actually tapped that point, those points, so it's almost like you can feel it Like on these bone points, like you said, four fingers below the nipple. And there's, when I feel anxious, for some reason I tap those points. Well, there's like, I tap these points here and then right like in my chest.

35:00DrAnd then those points you were saying. And I, just through doing it, I find that really helps with my anxiety. But it's funny because when I try to do it on my husband, that pressure point, he cannot handle it, like the little bit. And he just jumps and he's just like, and so we're always trying to like, okay, what is going on here? And I always associated it to, he had a bad car accident and he had like lung damage.

35:25DrSo I'm like, oh, well, I wonder why. Thank you so much for joining us.

35:58SpeakerThank you for joining us.

36:18SpeakerThank you for joining us.

36:34SpeakerThe needle point or whatever you want to call it that they use for that particular thing. And I used it for over 35 years and I've seen people, you barely touch it and they jump off the table. And sure enough, after being referred to somebody, there was other problems going on. And it's definitely a clear indicator. You can have someone standing in front of you with their nose running and reach in and you've got to stimulate it.

37:01SpeakerYou can't just touch it. You got to put your finger on it and roll it around in a circle to the right. And that will cause it to activate. And you'll get some information immediately. Like if you manage to get him to hold still to do it long enough, he'll report back to you in a short period of time that he had to go potty.

37:25DrYeah, and it's not like as sensitive as you're saying where he's jumping off the thing, but it's just like very sensitive. So, but yeah, that's a cool pressure point. So yeah, back to your comment on The rat work. I'm very mixed feelings about this. I agree with you. There's a lot of disconnect between what the experiments can show and what's actually happening in humans. And it's sometimes a bit of a stretch when we're trying to take what's happening in this experimental model to what's happening in humans.

38:03DrThat being said, I can still see value in some of the mechanistic studies. As an animal lover, I can say this is horrible and shouldn't be done, but as a scientist looking for cures for diseases, I can also see value in trying to understand mechanism.

38:21Mark ScaldoneAbsolutely. Preclinical data in animals is absolutely essential. If you start putting experimental drugs that have not been tested into animals and humans, you're never going to hear the end of it because you're going to be killing people with experimental drugs that have not been validated. So the tranche of preclinical results that are absolutely necessary before you do anything in humans is in animals.

38:46BubblemanAnd then you can kill people with the pharmaceuticals.

38:48Mark ScaldoneYeah, and then it's okay to kill people.

38:52SpeakerMark, you're talking about post-mortem, aren't you? Because, you know, it's hard.

38:57Mark ScaldoneNo, I'm talking about, like, when we evaluated our hydrogenated cannabis oil, we evaluated in a mouse model where we implanted tumors into a mouse and fed it with cannabinoids. And the only way to determine whether or not this stuff was going to be useful in cancer research is to determine whether or not we can, you know, control cancer growth in animal models.

39:21SpeakerOh, wait a minute. You just said you implanted tumors into the mice. And my whole problem with the studies is when you make a study up or you're going to do something to try to understand it, when you've already got a set of parameters laid out that what you think is going to be happening and you construct the study that way, It's inherently flawed. If you were to be able to sneak out into nature and inject these rats with this stuff while they were going about their daily business, that would be one thing.

39:53SpeakerWhen you trap them and put them in a cage, change their diet completely, change their Completely, you've changed all of it and now you want to make a study to see how something affects it. Yeah, if you give it a strong enough drug, some of them die, grow tumors and stuff like that. But I still think that the way they go about the studies is flawed. That's what I'm talking about.

40:14SpeakerI'm not saying that the studies are bad. Thank you for joining us.

40:46DrWhat animal models do is, you're right, there is no good animal model that's reflective of the whole aspect of human disease. But what these animal models can do, like for instance, when we use mice models for Crohn's and Colitis, there isn't just one mouse model that gets this disease. Seriously, probably like over 50 to 100 different models that we use. And so, for instance, for chemical models, we use like DSS, TNBS, we use these models to look at one aspect of the disease.

41:18DrAnd that might just be surface damage that happens in the gut or the formation of ulcers. Whereas we use bacteria-based models such as like a salmonella-type infection or we use a citrobacter rodentium infection. Thank you so much for joining us.

41:58DrWhen these models get really complicated because these are complicated immune diseases. So what they do is they'll isolate the T cells from a healthy animal and then they'll inject them into another animal. And by isolating out certain types of T cells, they can either induce disease or they can cure disease. And so now with these types of cells, they can further modify these cells. And this is called the T-cell model of colitis.

42:25DrAnd so this is used just to model a certain aspect of one immune cell in the disease. So this goes on and on. And then we have knockout mice where they're missing certain toll-like receptors or other markers where an aspect... of not just the whole immune system because people think the immune system oh there's one marker for the immune system like the immune system i've been studying the immune system for 15 years and i understand the tip of the iceberg of the immune system i'm even i won't even call myself an immunologist because it is so freaking complicated And so when there's like just one, you know, like I could take a dendritic cell model, I could take a CD4 T cell model, a CD8 T cell model, like on and on and on.

43:03DrSo all of these things are looking at maybe just one little aspect of the disease. And then we, as scientists, Oh, careful because again, these are animals. And so then when we take this one little piece, another lab has to repeat it. And then guess what? Something like the DSS model, if we do it in our lab and then a lab down the street does it, we might get different results.

43:26DrAnd we're like, what is going on? And now we're figuring out that the bacteria in the facility can cause different results. And so now researchers are getting better at controlling the bacteria in the facility. Like the amounts of control in these experiments has to be so, so strict so that we can get an answer about one little thing. And then we take that one little thing and then we put it with this other study.

43:50DrAnd then after maybe 30 years, we're like, hey, maybe we're getting closer to the answer of this. Like, this is so complicated. So like, it always makes me laugh when there's one study and there's like, we found the cure. We know what's going on. It's like, that is bullshit. These diseases are all so complicated. I don't even know if a cure is possible. But what is possible is figuring out ways to put all this information together and give patients some guidance so they can figure out what works for them and help them find like a way to get closer to remission or control their disease because Even once you start doing clinical trials, now it gets so complicated because in these highly controlled animal experiments where we're controlling every single thing, you know, right down to the light cycles, the water intake, the temperature in the air.

44:33Mark ScaldoneThe genome of the mouse itself, I mean, this is from a select genetic pool, John. We're not out in the field chasing these mice and rounding them up into cages and bringing them into laboratories. These are little white mice called murine, and these mice have been raised For this sole purpose, that's unfortunate, but you know, this is basically, and in cancer, hold on for a second. In cancer, what we do is we do exactly what Natasha said, which is we first look at the cellular level.

45:02Mark ScaldoneWe look to, in our case with angiogenesis, we look to see how the compounds administered Thank you so much for joining us.

45:37Mark ScaldoneWhere we're looking at the generation of new blood vessels and there is no proxy or surrogate for this other than doing this in whole animal testing. And the whole animal testing, again, it isn't, I think Nakasha said it right, it usually only answers a very, very small question of at this level is this treatment effective? And then you do a lot of pathology So you don't just, you know, sacrifice the animals.

46:07Mark ScaldoneI mean, you actually try to study what happened inside those animals to try to get as much information as you possibly can. So, you know, this isn't just some animal killing exercise by a bunch of people with white coats in a lab. This is really to understand the biochemical basis that these things operate on in living things. And we run a lot of different tests. And you can't say that these tests are inherently flawed because they're developed by humans.

46:34Mark ScaldoneWe have people who know a lot more than we do about how to determine whether or not these medicines are effective at controlling diseases and living things.

46:45SpeakerThey may not be perfect, but they're what we have until we can use people, which I don't think will happen really soon. Well, Mark, I'm with you on a part of that. But again, you mentioned they raise specific little white mice that they use in the laboratories. And I know they do that so that they have a standard to work back against. All these mice are the same.

47:13SpeakerI read a lot of studies about mice in Germany. Removed the valve at the bottom of the stomach of diabetic mice and all of the mice they did, which is in the excess of 100,000 of them, got cured of diabetes. And that's all interesting information. And it was put to good use towards human beings. But my point was that the reason that the studies are flawed is because of the way they go about it.

47:46SpeakerAnd they are looking for specific markers, which they say does this, that, and the other. And I think what we should be doing as a group of people on the planet is Looking at all the different kinds of medicines that are available and all the different ways of looking at medicine and health, we need to combine Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic and Tibetan medicine. We need to combine them all and then start looking for what's bringing these cures about.

48:18SpeakerWhen I saw the Dalai Lama in 1978, amazingly enough, I got an appointment to see his doctor. And the Dalai Lama's doctor did some stuff. I was having a lot of problems. And I was having sleep problems. And the way that Western medicine wanted to cure it was to give me a CPAP machine. And I went and saw the Dalai Lama. And he had me pee and poop in a cup and spit.

48:44SpeakerHe went over my... I guess he spent 20 minutes with his eyes closed with his finger on my wrist listening for subtle differences in the heartbeat. And when all was said and done, he gave me four pills. He said, don't take these out in the daylight. And he gave me a bag of... A week later, I was sleeping like a baby. No CPAP machine, no nothing. So what is it that the Dalai Lama's doctor knew that nobody in Western medicine could figure out besides putting me on a breather?

49:28SpeakerThat worked so well and so quickly. And these studies need to be included in with all the... Western medicine is definitely putting blinders on and looking at something from a very narrow viewpoint because they want to find a very specific piece of knowledge. And that's all well and good and I'm not saying that that's the flawed part. The flawed part is that we don't have our... Our intake open wide enough to allow everything in so that we can reapply it all backwards towards health and understanding.

50:03DrI think it's starting to shift that way though. There's definitely more health professionals that are considering other forms of medicine. For instance, my background was in nutrition, so I had a master's degree and a bachelor's I have a PhD in Human Nutritional Sciences, and when I started my PhD in the lab that I did my work in at UBC, their lab was gut research and immunology, and so coming in there with a nutrition background, I'm thinking like, oh great, everyone's going to want to talk about diet and the gut.

50:37DrAnd when I did my first kind of presentation to our lab group, I just did a bit of an overview on some ways that nutrition was affecting the gut, and everyone laughed at me. And I was like, what? And this is 2008. And you know, it wasn't like, ha ha, get off the stage. It was like, oh, that's cute. Yeah, yeah, yeah, diet affects the gut. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

50:59DrAnd I'm like, oh my goodness, okay, I have so much work to do here. So then 10 years later, every person in the lab is pretty much studying some aspect of nutrition or diet or lifestyle. So like I did my PhD looking at how vitamin D affects the immune response and the bacteria populations in the gut. And so now that's even shifting like the person who overtook my project, she's looking at like how ultraviolet light radiation can affect the gut.

51:30DrAnd so I had theories that It wasn't just what we were eating, but it was also what we were putting on our skin could be affecting our gut. And that also seemed like an out there idea when I first presented it. But a lot of these researchers, they speak science. So if you can explain like a seemingly out there concept and bring it back to some science, or at least some presented in a way that they can say like, okay, you're not just saying some things, you actually have something to back it up, they will listen to you.

52:01DrThey will shift their opinions. There's a lot of people who are trying to encompass all these different viewpoints and find creative ways to capture what's happening through research and science. And this can be difficult when we don't necessarily have the right tools to measure something like some of these energy things or like pressure points or why do these things work. But even there's just more and more research coming out where they're finding ways to tap these types of alternative I don't even want to say alternative, complementary treatments.

52:35DrAnd so I'm always fighting for people to just even respect diet and nutrition can affect health. And just through that it's been frustrating trying to get status quo gastroenterologists to believe that diet affects the gut. And this is still an issue with some of the old gastro guys because they have an opinion that if it was important they would have heard about it. So who are you to tell me something?

53:01DrLike, it's insane. And so as I finished, I started introducing cannabis to my research group. And the same thing, like, okay, now they all get nutrition, yada, yada, diet. They're all doing nutrition projects. So then now I'm bringing this new idea. Okay, so now what about cannabis for the gut? And then the next idea I'm trying to push is not just cannabis for the gut, but how about pediatric cannabis for Crohn's and colitis?

53:25DrAnd because one of my... My advisors during my PhD was Dr. Kevin Jacobson, and he's the head of pediatric gastroenterology at Children's Hospital in Vancouver. And he's friendly to the idea of cannabis research, but he just doesn't quite understand it enough, so there's a lot of concern. And when I was approaching some of these doctors, because I'm sure as many of you know kids who have Crohn's and Colitis and other conditions they go on some heavy drugs and it's not okay like there's better options and something like topical cannabis or CBD you know if we're worried about the psychoactivity of THC but there's ways for pediatrics to consume so I'm not sure if you guys have heard of Colton Turner he's a Yeah, so Crohn's and Colitis, or he has Crohn's disease.

54:18DrI think he's 16 years old, Colorado refugee right now for accessing his medical cannabis. And so I was listening, sorry, he's using cannabis to help manage his Crohn's. And he's... I was listening to one of his YouTube videos and it really struck me that he was saying he had a flare up and he wasn't able to access his medicine. And he had, like with Crohn's, anything can cause a trigger.

54:46DrAnd so I think he said pizza had caused his trigger and caused a flare. And when he went to the hospital, they treated him like, oh, you're a drug user, get out of here, we don't want anything to do with you. And he said, but if I would have had epilepsy... They would have given me my cannabis and so I'm just it just really struck me I'm like oh just there's so much work to do here and so going back to my situation where I was trying to talk to these health professionals about these ideas like okay well we know these these kids we put them on steroids we put them on TNF alpha blockers we put them on drugs that Increase the risk for cancer, stunt their growth, increase their risk for serious infection, like things that shouldn't happen, things that could be used instead or as a complementary therapy so they could reduce their dose and have maybe less polypharmacy, have to use less drugs.

55:38DrSo I, talking about edible cannabis at this point was too far out there for the professionals I was talking to. So I started with, okay, let's talk about topical cannabis. How about like a belly cream, like for pain? Like, could we do that? And I was speaking with a rheumatologist and the look on her face was just like, You know, I had a patient who smoked cannabis and just like went into all these like, you know, just bullshit stereotypes and it's just like this wall where all of a sudden you can't even talk to this person anymore.

56:12DrSo it's just...

56:13Etienne FontanAnd that's a surprise because we've got transdermal patches and things like that. So there are, you know, there should be epidemiologists looking at this to see the transfers. What is a proper transfer? What is being absorbed? What isn't being absorbed? I mean, these are key components. And I saw the original patent for one of these, like five, To six years ago, and I'm actually seeing people putting out, you know, patches currently.

56:37Etienne FontanSo it's surprising just to hear that an epidemiologist would be so one dismissal, but also shows how the medicines that are being created are not being studied. And these doctors have no clue because unlike the pharmaceutical companies that are sending out pamphlets on what new drug is coming out this quarter, et cetera, et cetera, they have no idea that this product is there available even out there along with like Tony's different products, et cetera, et cetera.

57:01Etienne FontanYou know, it's transdermal, aromatherapy, all these type of things all have key effects on overall health and wealth and well-being. So, sorry doctor, it just surprised me that they would, that she would be so dismissive.

57:13DrWell it's just it's just miseducation and like going back to this like doctors are so busy they have limited time so a lot of the content they're going to go with is what they were educated with or what people in within their you know their friends their network are telling them so it just comes back to this education and it's like please just look at the data it's like and and you know it's so frustrating because it's like there is info there but But bringing it back to pediatrics, it's still such a, everyone freaks out.

57:44DrSo I'm trying to actually organize through my networks like even just an education night just to say like, hey, let's talk about the endocannabinoid system. This isn't scary. Like this is in our gut. And so I did some just like PowerPoint type presentations for my network and like really well received. It was funny because my first time doing, this is probably like, Four or five years ago, when we have a weekly lab meeting and you're supposed to present, you know, your latest research or, and it's usually a stressful thing where, you know, you're preparing your presentation for two weeks and you're judged by your peers who are, you know, going to call it your research and et cetera.

58:20DrSo when it was my turn, I was just like, I'm going to talk about cannabis. And normally you have to like, okay it with your advisor and has to go through all these channels. So I just showed up and did my talk and everyone was kind of like, because normally this is, you know, early morning talk. Everyone's kind of like, Paying attention, not really paying attention, you know, boring science talks.

58:40DrThat was a well-tuned in audience that morning. They were very intrigued, lots of interest. And it changed a lot of perceptions. Like even one of my close friends who was doing her PhD with me, her mom went through breast cancer. And because of hearing that cannabis was okay, like her parents were actually really worried about cannabis, but then they accepted it into her treatment and she got through her breast cancer therapies and, you know, she's good now.

59:06DrAnd then another person had other issues and felt that they could use cannabis. So it's just, Letting people know some basics can go a really far way. And I just want to say, like, people get so mad about, oh, the doctors and the academics and they're, why are they being such idiots? It's just like, they're not necessarily trying to be bad people. It's just they don't know.

59:27DrThe info hasn't been presented to them in a way that is reputable or makes sense where they have the desire to go read more. So it's just, I don't know, instead of yelling at these people, let's try to get the info to them and try to educate them.

59:42SpeakerYou know, don't you think that just keeping up with the latest information is enough of a strain on most doctors in practice, much less trying to find out what's the leading edge stuff. I mean, I all the time have run into doctors over the years who are still practicing old stuff and because it was effective for a while, even though there might be something new. I can remember sitting across from an oncologist whose nose was Thank you for watching.

1:00:33SpeakerWe've failed to pay attention to the subtle. Once again, John, it's know-how, isn't it?

1:01:01SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:01:17SpeakerI've been laughed at. You can be laughed at. I've been laughed at.

1:01:22Etienne FontanOh, I have been laughed at, and I've been laughed at as well as escorted out of VA facilities all over the United States. And I understand, but I think that our watchers need to realize how what you are saying is true. They are so focused on their current credits and what is going on to then shake them out of their little worlds and say, no, there's a whole other...

1:01:46Etienne FontanThere's homeopathic, there's different ways that cannabis can actually help, you know, With an individual, and you know as well as I do, you get looked like you just showed a dog a card trick. You know, they just turn their heads like, you can't discuss this, you can't bring this up. But what it means, people, is that it shows the depth that we still have to do to take information and educate these doctors who we think are the educated, those that should know everything that we're going to discuss with them.

1:02:17Etienne FontanWe have to realize they're human beings. And because they're constantly lobbied by pharmaceutical companies, they have this one picture that they're dealt with every day. Not every doctor believes there's alternatives or is even willing to listen to the idea of alternatives. Right, Dr. Rice? I mean, you yourself work with doctors all the time who look at you with great skepticism and probably keep you under a microscope sometimes because they think even what you're talking about is crazy.

1:02:42Etienne FontanAnd because they've had so many decades of bias built up, it's hard for them to even move past those walls to even acknowledge what you're doing, much less delve into it further to understand it.

1:02:53SpeakerYeah, but the big farm is affecting all the doctors. Big pharmacy wants to peddle the...

1:02:58Etienne FontanIt has. It has for decades now, and that's why we have what we have currently, correct?

1:03:03SpeakerWell, that and they're busy sticking their nose into cannabinoid research now because big farm wants to control all that. I'm sure they're looking at terpenes with a new eye, and they're looking at all the stuff that the cannabis movement is bringing to light with a new eye because it's hard to turn your... Thank you for joining us.

1:03:48SpeakerWhen you go to a doctor nowadays, you should really do all the research you possibly can to carry that in with you. Because otherwise, you're going to get whatever it is he's been trained by Big Farm. Or go to a Western doctor, go to a Tibetan doctor, and then go to a Chinese doctor, and then take a look at the whole thing as a whole. And as a whole, it stinks right now.

1:04:13SpeakerI'm done.

1:04:14BubblemanHey, welcome, Tony. How you doing, dude? How was your panel the other day on terpenes?

1:04:21TonyOh, man, how you doing? It was really good. Big turnout. The whole room was packed, and I even saw Frenchie in the audience, too. He was sitting on the middle aisle. He came in a little bit later.

1:04:36BubblemanWell, cool.

1:04:37TonyBut it was good. They had really good questions about the difference between pure plant profiles from cannabis and people taking different types of terpenes that are not from cannabis and trying to duplicate basically mother nature.

1:04:55BubblemanSure. I think that'll be the majority of what you see terpenes as maybe very in the near future for a short period of time.

1:05:10BubblemanIt's such a high-end product when using cannabis, really nice cannabis to make it, as opposed to figuring out a way to deceive.

1:05:25TonyYeah, you know, I gave them a pretty good comparison. I said, well, imagine if today you invited me on this panel to cook you a meal. And I could choose to do a farm-to-table meal where I source everything from Sonoma, Grass Valley, local areas, and make this amazing, unbelievable, all-organic farm-to-table meal for you. Or I set up a really cool 3D printer And I printed out the exact food.

1:05:56TonyI mean, it's the same on paper. I've got the proteins. I've got the carbs. I've got the flavoring. I've got everything down. I said, so what you're asking me is, you know, what do I think about, you know, keeping it real and keeping it all 100% the way Mother Nature intended it or recreating it? So as long as you know... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:06:44TonyI think as long as you know going in, that's the most important part, you know?

1:06:51SpeakerYeah, isn't that kind of a confusing point between the way they label things, Tony? Like, this is organic, this is inorganic, and so forth. I mean, don't you think that's causing a lot of the problems? In addition to what you said, the people who make these labels and decide what goes on to them are part and partial of the problem. Yeah, as well.

1:07:15BubblemanThere's definitely like, to me, now there's already these sort of manipulative assumptions that are out when people say, right away I'm like, oh, kind of like the way I do when people tell me they have hash. Generally I'll be like, usually my first question is, does it melt? And it's not because I'm completely obsessed with having to have it melt. It's because 9.9 times out of 10, the melt factor is definitely, I mean, it's definitely going to tell you the purity.

1:07:46BubblemanWhether it tells you the quality or not, it's going to show you that there's a fairly near perfect purity if it's melting away to almost nothing. I like the example you used with the farm. Farm to table meal because that is a perfect example of those differences right there. Those little subtle nuances that we are yet perceiving. We're just looking on paper and going, no, these are the same.

1:08:13BubblemanLook, they're the same. They're the exact same thing. I just have a very strong feeling that one day, I mean, I can't imagine our science right now Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:08:52Mark ScaldoneEvery day, just as much as I play music. And I look to the labs, various labs that I follow. I look to see what their latest publications are.

1:09:04Mark ScaldoneYeah, we do have a crystal ball. It's called the literature. And you can look into the literature and you can stand on the shoulders of giants and shoot rubber bands at stars from solid scientific foundation that has basically been established And it's great. I mean, if you look at like some of the work that's going on now that's being published in the cannabinoid journals, it is absolutely cutting edge fantastic.

1:09:33Mark ScaldoneIt's great reading. I know. I've just read.

1:09:37BubblemanHow much money have we spent on cancer research and putting money into cancer science? And then I think of how often do they cure or stop cancers? Compared to say like people eating weed that never did any science. They're just like, I heard if you eat this plant, you can get better. I love science. It's done an enormous amount for me in my own personal life. I love alchemy.

1:10:02BubblemanI love science. I just very much believe that The things we'll learn in the future will show us that some of the things we know today, or at least think we know, are incorrect. And that's a frightening thought.

1:10:20Mark ScaldoneYeah, well, today is today and tomorrow is the beginning of the future. So it's like when you see new stuff that inspires you, I'm sure, Natasha, if you're reading the literature, you see stuff and you could pull stuff together that only you can do that because you're familiar with someone else's work and you can make a connection to this enzyme and that active site and you can just start pulling stuff together on your own and start filling in all the space in between, which is amazing.

1:10:47Mark ScaldoneWhat science is, which is really a quest to understand what's not known. And so to me, it's like, it's a modern day Christopher, oh no, he's a bad example. A modern day explorer, modern day Magellan, or a modern day David Bowie, a space odyssey, you know? Every, everything, when I look at the periodic table, I look at the 12 notes in music and I'm like, man, I could make infinite combinations here that I could put the Legos together like no one's ever put them together before.

1:11:19Mark ScaldoneThat's what's cool about science is because you never know what you're going to find and that's why when you're in the laboratory and you have that aha moment and you've invented something for the first time, you know it because It just, it dawns on you that you're like, wow, I took what this guy did and what this guy and what this guy, and I put it together and no one's ever synthesized this before and here it is.

1:11:41BubblemanWhich was what was neat about watching Paul Stamets speak yesterday because right away he's like, I'm not a scientist, but then it was like, but I basically did epic shit that they wished they had been doing. Like he's just finding all these, he's sending mushrooms to, what was it, the defense department, Natasha? Yeah.

1:11:58DrYeah, I can't remember exactly, but he had, it was like every big wig, he was somehow connected, like big wig organization. He was like, oh yeah, and then they asked me for help with this disease, and so I got on the mushroom.

1:12:09BubblemanOh, this is when I got my National Geographic Award. But the science thing, Mark, he's sending these mushroom compounds to this, to, I can only imagine what would probably be one of the most intense labs in the world. This had a name, and it was basically a national security thing. They were trying to find compounds that were effective on smallpox. And, you know, if they get a 10, okay?

1:12:35DrBioShield program.

1:12:37BubblemanBioShield program. BioShield.

1:12:40DrHe said if you Google Stamos and smallpox, you'll find Stamos. From the BioShield program of when he was using agaricon actives, a type of mushroom.

1:12:53BubblemanRight, from the agaricon. If you get a 10, it's enough that they're going to look into it. And he was pulling out hundreds, and one of his numbers was in the thousand. Wow. Yeah, it's like a billion dollar patent or whatever. And then while he's telling us that he patented it, he's like, oh, and I just wanted you guys to know I'm open sourcing all these patents.

1:13:17DrYeah, and like, so a lot of the stuff he was doing is still like early, like he's still doing cell culture type stuff, but he's taking basically little bits, breaking up the mushroom, finding like all these little bits that can be used effectively against different viruses or different viruses. Bacteria infections, like all kinds of different things. Like he went deep.

1:13:41BubblemanYeah, and it was amazing how he was, you know, in the graph where he shows the terpenes and he's showing water extractions and then he's showing different chemicals.

1:13:50Mark ScaldoneIn mushrooms this was, Mark? He was showing terpene profiles in mushrooms? Yeah.

1:13:55BubblemanJust showing this graph of how all the things that he could fraction out of mushrooms, and he was just like, I don't understand how much everything is in there.

1:14:05Mark ScaldoneMushrooms are so fucking diverse. They have their own kingdom, right? Mushrooms are as diverse as animals are. When you think about a mouse and you think like an elephant, that's how diverse fungi are. They're all over the place. They're absolutely essential for life on Earth, and yeah, it'll be here Long after we're gone. Yeah, I mean, just think about the plethora of... You know, discoveries that can be made by looking at all of these types of things to help with human nutrition or human sickness.

1:14:39Mark ScaldoneAbsolutely.

1:14:40DrWhat's interesting, though, about Paul is he always says, I'm not a scientist. I mean, he is a scientist, but he doesn't necessarily have the big degrees or whatever. But what was fascinating and about his style and back to what you were saying, Mark, about like using PubMed or some type of search tool. You can create new ideas. You don't need to physically be in a lab. Seriously, one of my favorite things to do is just get deep into PubMed and go down a rabbit hole, and you start reading one thing, and you're like, I wonder if this...

1:15:09DrFollow it up to a reference, and then you go, go, go. And then what I do is I screenshot each of those things, and I put it in a PowerPoint file, and I start building these.

1:15:20Mark ScaldoneFour hours later...

1:15:22DrOh, not even like eight hours later. Eight hours later. Seriously, like someone will say like, hey, my friend, like for instance, one of my friends, my sister had a friend who had scleroderma and I had never heard of this condition. It's basically like fibrosis, so scar tissue that forms everywhere in your body. And we study, it's a problem with Crohn's disease, so they get scar tissue formation through the inflammation and then the healing, the cycles that continue on and on and it's basically thickening of the scar tissue.

1:15:49DrYeah. And so anyway, and that's part of the major reason why these patients need surgery. So like 70% of Crohn's patients will need surgery at least one point in their life to get part of their gut removed. Eventually some of these patients have no gut. They have a bag on their side. So this is a, the fibrosis is a very important point of this condition. And so with the scleroderma, All of a sudden I'm like, oh shit, this is fibrosis of the whole body.

1:16:13DrAnd so I went down this crazy rabbit hole of like, I have like a 200 page PowerPoint and I'm just putting all this info together But by understanding what's happening in this disease, so looking at fibrosis in the liver, in the heart, in the skin.

1:16:26Mark ScaldoneI was just going to say that. That is the hallmark of liver disease and liver degradation, and also degradation in the pancreas, which we know cannabinoids will help because they're antioxidant properties. And the key thing is that they're fat-soluble because a lot of antioxidants… There's, our diets are rich with antioxidant, but antioxidant that's fat-soluble is usually kind of like a little bit of an anomaly because things are like vitamin C or ascorbic acid or metal ions that could, like iron, which could shuttle in between one and two, again, could intercept single electron species, which are called radicals.

1:17:02Mark ScaldoneIn general, you don't want free radicals building up in biological tissue only for specific Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:17:35DrSo I just want to bring up another point with, because that's interesting about all what you're saying, but a concern that is coming up in the literature is that about certain forms of smoked cannabis being an issue with liver fibrosis. So I'm not sure if you've seen those studies. I'm very intrigued by that also. Okay, I'll put together some of the info. I think it's more an issue of the smoke and maybe the way they're consuming it because they're not seeing those types of concerns when they're using different types.

1:18:08DrAnd I'm wondering like what you're saying with all these fibrosis pathways, like some of them could be increased or decreased. It's modulating these pathways. But yeah, what else?

1:18:16Mark ScaldoneI want to introduce the concept again of the biological switch. And the biological switch is, you know, we were talking about hypermesis and how, again, in some patients they get cannabis and immediately they start getting nauseous. Well, again, when you think of it like this, like I'm in a house right now and I don't have every light on in my house. And certainly if I just fill all my cannabinoid receptors and I turn on every light in my house, I don't need to have every light on in my house.

1:18:43Mark ScaldoneI only need certain lights on in my house. And so I think like angiogenesis for one, there are very, very subtle changes that you could make to growth factors to make them pro or anti-angiogenic. And so what Mother Nature does is in the endothelium, she uses things called MMPs, which are matrix metalloproteinases to actually degrade All of these pieces of collagen and those degraded pieces of collagen basically create hormones and signaling to other pathways for other differentiation between cells and a variety of different things.

1:19:18Mark ScaldoneBut the point is that when you have abnormalities in there, in particular with free radicals and stuff like that, you start intercepting all of these pathways and start generating byproducts that again, the body or the immunological response, like with psoriasis, for example, It's basically an immunology gone crazy because all the lights are on in the house. We don't need all the lights on in the house. We only need a couple of lights on in the house.

1:19:46Mark ScaldoneDo you know what I'm saying? I'm trying to make an analogy here so that everyone can understand that sometimes all cannabinoid receptors don't have to be going 100% of the time to get the therapeutic effect that you're looking for to control some type of abnormality. The biological switch.

1:20:07DrI love everything you're saying and I want to bring it back to like hyperemesis syndrome and also with like what you're saying where when all the receptors or things are overstimulated and most people think like with the endocannabinoid system that's just CB1 and CB2 but we know there's all these other receptors and so with cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome One of the things that's really interesting is that, I mean, this is a rare condition, but people who get it, it's the hot showering, right, that provides relief.

1:20:40DrAnd so that's one of the things that I find fascinating because it's like, what is it about this heat thing? And so if we look at other receptors that cannabinoids can signal through, there's the TRPV receptors.

1:20:50Mark ScaldoneTRPV1, right, we were talking about that, right.

1:20:52DrYes, yes. So TRPV1, it's a heat sensing receptor also, and so people, I know more of it through looking at making pain balms with chili oil, so capsaicin.

1:21:03Mark ScaldoneDr. Capsaicin. So capsaicin is the cannabinoid that opens up that receptor.

1:21:09DrSo capsaicin, it's not the cannabinoid, right?

1:21:12Mark ScaldoneWell, no, no, no. I'm just taking the analogy. The molecules are the keys and the lock is the receptor.

1:21:20DrYes.

1:21:20Mark ScaldoneIn this case, not the cannabinoid, but the capsaicin.

1:21:22DrYes, yes, good point. So the capsaicin is the key, and then the TRPV1 is like the lock, I guess. So that's the receptor. So there, I don't know if you guys have seen this, but there is, I was talking... Dr. Ian, what was his name, McGregor, from Australia. Did you see his talk, Marcus? But anyway, he was talking briefly about hyperemesis syndrome and I was speaking with him after and he had a patient population that had this condition and so I was telling him about this case study where someone is reporting that they were at some science conference and someone had on their poster that they had taken seven patients who were suffering from this condition And what they did is they tried putting a capsaicin cream on them.

1:22:11DrSo I think, I can't remember what the percentage of capsaicin, it was low like 0.5 or something percent, just enough to get enough of a tingle. And they found after 30 minutes their hyperemesis syndrome went away. So this is so interesting because right now the only thing they can tell people is don't use cannabis anymore, go on a cannabis holiday. Which is okay for some people, but people who need cannabis to, you know, help with their pain or something where they need it every day, they need options where they don't necessarily have to stop their cannabis, but can maybe figure out ways to modulate their system.

1:22:44DrSo, this could potentially be something where using a cream with chili pepper oil, not necessarily capsaicin, it could be other TPRV1 receptor modulator. Alright, Mark, what are you trying to say?

1:22:55Mark ScaldoneYeah, I was going to say, I have a friend who swears by this, and I don't recommend it. We've talked about this on Hash Church before. When he suffers from migraines, he only gets like one or two a year, he takes a little bit of cayenne pepper and snorts it, and it immediately, I mean, he turns into a piece of shit for like about five minutes, like, ah, yelling and screaming, but his migraine goes away, and he claims he just gets a rush of blood to his head, and whatever it is that The capsaicin or the, I don't know.

1:23:24DrIt's the capsaicin. It's absolutely the capsaicin. But it burns.

1:23:27Mark ScaldoneRight, right, right. Hey, Mark.

1:23:29DrNo, and there's a therapy where they take really high dose patches of capsaicin. Like, so normally humans can tolerate like 0.75, like some people will get burning. But with these patches, they can get up to like 10% capsaicin. And they actually have to anesthetize people, like put them out to treat them with this. And then they go, it's like a two or three day procedure, but they have like no pain for months at a time.

1:23:57DrSo people will go in for this high dose capsaicin treatment. So your friend has essentially figured out how to do his high dose capsaicin treatment through snorting it. That's so funny.

1:24:07Mark ScaldoneFor about five minutes, you don't want to be around them.

1:24:10SpeakerDr. Natasha and Mark, in 1926 there was a doctor who was touring the United States promoting taking capsicum in large doses. He would take a spoonful, a tablespoon full, or put it in a little grape juice and take it. He would, as part of his demonstration, cut his arm with a razor and by the end of the talk his arm would be closed And pretty much healed up.

1:24:36SpeakerHe would also dab the capsicum on the cut. And I myself, for years, have taken a heaping teaspoon or tablespoon, whichever one's bigger, put it in a glass containing about a couple of shot glasses worth of grape juice. Stir it up and drink it down. I don't really get any burning from it and it really keeps my blood clean. I've had a lot of lab tests and they're always surprised at how clean my blood is.

1:25:08SpeakerAnd you go to the VA and they test you for everything whether you give them permission to or not. And I've had guys say to me that my circulatory system, though it is compromised by an enlarged left ventricle, They say that I'm not lacking in blood anywhere. They gave me the gamma camera test where they inject you with unhorrible things that I hate to think about. But it shows up on the gamma camera and my heart was fully engorged in blood.

1:25:41SpeakerAnd the guy was like, I don't know what you're eating for a diet, but you should keep it up. He goes, because your heart's measuring out like you were 19 years old. And so the capsicum is some great stuff. I've been using it for a long time. I put it on open wounds during the Civil War. It was well known among Civil War doctors to shut a wound down from bleeding to put capsicum in it.

1:26:04Mark ScaldoneSo, John, here's the question. You know, it's a long-chain pre-enolated benzoamide would be a great fat-soluble or extraction-soluble substrate, capsaicin. Have you tried extracting?

1:26:19SpeakerOh yeah, I extracted so much of it. Listen, the first time I extracted some, we opened up the thing to take it out of the container and we had to run out of the building because the overhead from the capsule was so powerful that my lungs refused to function even a tiny bit. I tried to take a breath in and my lungs just said no. No fool, you're not going to breathe in here.

1:26:42SpeakerSo I ran outside while I was still conscious, and I noticed behind me the mice running out of the building as well. So, yeah, I have.

1:26:51Mark ScaldoneSo what you're telling us is that it's a mice repellent?

1:26:55SpeakerWell, listen.

1:26:56Mark ScaldoneIt's an everything repellent.

1:26:59SpeakerLiterally, every time after that. I even noticed that we had to put special clothing on and gloves and protect ourselves because the extract was so potent and powerful that we would, Ventilate the building, open up the door and leave the lid off the thing for a while, probably letting a lot of capsicum terpenes get away. But we had to do that before we could empty it out of the chamber because when you've got 150 gallons of that you're dealing with.

1:27:25Mark ScaldoneSo what's the concentration of capsaicin in the extract itself? Like what are you getting out besides capsaicin in the extract?

1:27:34SpeakerYou know, I don't have that paperwork in front of me. This is hash church Sunday morning. You'll have to contact me afterwards to get that kind of information.

1:27:42Mark ScaldoneBut there are like habanero turps and, you know, I don't know, other pepper turps, you know? Oh, yeah.

1:27:49SpeakerYeah, we've done every kind of pepper. We've even done smoked peppers. Oh, wow. When you're done extracting a smoked habanero pepper, it turns completely white. And it's just, there's nothing left in it. All the color comes out as well. So you can imagine how beautiful the oil must be if the peppers are red and smoked. The oil looks fabulous. Just don't breathe it or get near any of it.

1:28:14SpeakerWe used to do it a lot for the companies that make the stuff you spray in your eyes. Pepper spray. Yeah, anti-rape drug. Yeah. It all depends on how you look at everything. Everybody talks about supplements. Well, guess what? To plants, earthworms must seem like supplements in their diet because they're running around doing all the good stuff and pooping on their roots, right? It's just how we look at everything.

1:28:45SpeakerI'm afraid that science has narrowed some of the stuff down so fine that there's no real opening For the kind of innovation that we should be looking at. And that worries me that we have reduced ourselves to such a fine filter prior to

1:29:09Mark ScaldoneOh, but John, there's new frontiers. I mean, as old frontiers closed, now we can stand on those foundations and shoot rubber bands at new frontiers. So, yeah, I think it is a continuous, science is a continuous process. I mean, certainly like... Especially with cannabis and maybe this isn't the case but there's kind of like these S curves and S meaning like kind of like shaped like an S so there's like a lot of innovation that's happening now but soon it will mature and it will plateau when the cannabis industry becomes a more mature industry but we're at the front end of that innovation where there's all kinds of New things and widgets and gadgets and things to be invented and you know the all cannabis vape pen.

1:29:58Mark ScaldoneI mean there's all kinds of shit to do man. I mean there's just There's not enough hours in the day to do everything that needs to be done.

1:30:05SpeakerI know. I mean, listen, I buy into the fact that some of the stuff that the people are coming out with now, the new younger people, is amazing stuff. It's hard to keep up with it. I was never into, even though I've been extracting oil for I don't know how long now, I never was doing dabs until recently Marcus talked me into trying a dab. And so I went and got a dab machine, and now I quit smoking flowers like a week and a half ago, and I can't even smoke them anymore because they taste like hay.

1:30:38Mark ScaldoneWell, bong rip, man. Bong rip, motherfuckers. What do you think? We haven't done one in a while. Let's go. There's D420K, man.

1:30:48SpeakerGive it to us, D. My nail burned out yesterday, so I'm in trouble.

1:30:54Mark ScaldoneBong rip, mother lovers. That's how it is.

1:31:01BubblemanTony woke up for that.

1:31:05TonyOh, yes. Yes, yes, yes, indeed.

1:31:09BubblemanThere were some good comments. There was like, I think Tony's asleep, and then someone was like, he kind of looks like his dog right now.

1:31:17TonyHe's actually sitting in that same position just like she just ate a huge bowl of food. Come here. Come here. Come here. Come here. La, la, la, la, la. Everybody wants to see you. Come here.

1:31:31SpeakerThere's a thousand people waiting for your appearance.

1:31:33TonyCome here.

1:31:35SpeakerFirst you think Tony's talking about a kid, right? But it's a dog, isn't it, Tony?

1:31:39TonyIt is a dog. Come on, Oli. Come here. She's like super shy. It's pretty funny. Come here. Come on. Come on.

1:31:52SpeakerThis shows you what kind of heart Tony's got, you know? Come here.

1:31:59BubblemanHe's an empathetic being.

1:32:01TonyCome here, Oli. I know you want to come on. There you go. Get on his church. There she is.

1:32:16Etienne FontanSo does this make you the dog walker of Terps?

1:32:19TonyYeah, we're going to put this in her ear. He's going to be plugged in. Now she can hear you.

1:32:28TonySay something.

1:32:29SpeakerI see a lot of people.

1:32:35TonyShe's looking at me with the craziest face like, what? What? What's going on there? Man, what a kitty. We saw a dog yesterday at the West Summit. It was a little tiny white poodle. I'm not kidding. I took a little video of it. But it was basically a white poodle that must have been about eight pounds that was shaved where like the legs were all shaved and the body was shaved.

1:33:03TonyBut it was kind of like a little like proper big poodle that you see like a show poodle. And this dog... Had little tiny pink sunglasses, rimmed glasses, shades, wore them with a bow in its hair and was like, that was, did not have a problem. And then had little pink dyes like in its hair and had a whole outfit and literally didn't like try to take the outfit off, was taking pictures and a full on, full on dog model.

1:33:37TonyWhat did the owner look like, Tony? You know what? There was so much action on the dog, I don't think anyone even saw the owner.

1:33:48SpeakerI just wondered if the owner had a small set of pink sunglasses on and a bell. Because a lot of times dog owners are like that. You know, they just go, they twin up with their dogs. I mean, I've seen tons of pictures, but once upon a time when I lived in the San Diego area, I used to see people walking their dogs around there and they would dress like the dogs.

1:34:14SpeakerSo after you described that, I thought, I just wonder.

1:34:19BubblemanAre you sure it wasn't their dogs dressing like them?

1:34:22SpeakerIt probably was because those were the days when everybody was really high. So my memories from those days are like, that was good stuff.

1:34:34BubblemanMm-hmm.

1:34:37SpeakerOh, Congolese for the win. Yeah. Except for I don't have any more Congolese.

1:34:46TonyI think I'm going to try to come see you Tuesday or Wednesday.

1:34:51BubblemanYeah, let them know because there's things that are going to be organized and if you don't go, those things won't be there anymore. They have to be reacquired.

1:35:02SpeakerYeah. Give me at least a two days heads up because I got to take a drive. To go get some materials that we'll need to perform that. I'm sure you understand.

1:35:13TonyYeah, if you wanted, I could be there. Definitely be there Tuesday or Wednesday.

1:35:21SpeakerOkay, but that stuff goes away. If I get it on Tuesday, maybe there's still some on Wednesday. So anyway, when you know for sure what day. Well, I know for sure. All right, which one of those days?

1:35:33TonyTuesday or Wednesday. Which one do you want?

1:35:39BubblemanThat was funny.

1:35:43TonyI know the exact hours and the exact days. Just pick one, Tony.

1:35:47SpeakerI'm afraid to ask you the rest of it, but that was good.

1:35:53TonyWednesday is probably good. Wednesday is good. Wednesday is good. I have to go to L.A. on Thursday and then in that area like Thursday. So Wednesday is really good.

1:36:06SpeakerOkay, then I'll make sure everything is where it's supposed to be.

1:36:12TonyNice. I went to Ween last night. You guys know who Ween is?

1:36:17SpeakerYep. Ween, California?

1:36:19Mark ScaldoneWeen, Ween. Ween, the band from New Hope, Pennsylvania. Yeah.

1:36:24TonyOh, sorry.

1:36:26BubblemanHow was that?

1:36:26TonyHow'd you like it, Tony? Oh, man. I used to listen to them back in the late 90s, and it just brought me back to when I was... Chocolate and cheese, right? Yeah, you know.

1:36:39BubblemanYou know, that is one of the most beautiful things about music, and as I brought this up yesterday when we were in the truck, Natasha, with Ed Rosenthal and his wife, and David as well, and just Mentioning how lucky I was to have gotten into the Grateful Dead in the early 90s, late 80s, early 90s, and be able to have that history many, you know, some decades later.

1:37:05BubblemanIt's just such a great feeling of nostalgia that you get when you listen to these different versions of different songs. And that's one of the magics, I think, of the Grateful Dead and the Allman Brother Band and, you know, Fish and A lot more bands now that you get to have these intense relationships and experiences through this music and then they basically hold the memories for you throughout your life and gain new ones as you're continuing to listen to them.

1:37:36BubblemanI just have a real appreciation for it. I was stoked when I saw Paul Stamets with the steal your face on his hat. Although yesterday he was actually wearing a hat that was made out of a mushroom. That hat was pretty nuts. You don't see very many. It was just like yours, Tony, but it was made out of a mushroom.

1:37:53TonyHow do you know mine's not made out of a mushroom? I don't. Yeah, that's why it goes with me everywhere I go.

1:38:00DrThe mushroom was crazy, too. I don't know if you touched it, Marcus. It was like they had a sample of the mushroom that was used to make the hat, and it was like, it felt like leather. Like it was like mushy, and it was like a pelt almost. They had a display of all the different mushrooms he was talking about. I posted a picture of it on my Twitter account if you want to see.

1:38:25DrAnd if you can help identify them, please tweet at me. I'm at TashaRitz on Twitter. But anyway, the mushroom that he used to make his hat, it had such an incredible feel and it was fun just to watch the audience members come up and touch it because people would be like, oh, I want to touch it. And as soon as you felt it, it was like you could not stop because it had such a Interesting spongy texture that you were just like, like, I think it could be a replacement for leather.

1:38:52DrSo I think vegans out there should start checking. I can't remember which mushroom it was. Which one was it again, Marcus?

1:38:58BubblemanYeah, you know, I'd have to, I recorded the talk, so I'm going to put it up on Bubble Man's World, but I will apologize right now. And I really don't want to hear a bunch of comments because you cannot imagine. Smoking that Graham hash joint and then going in there and holding a video camera and having to constantly look down because I didn't want to move. And it's shaky.

1:39:21BubblemanThere's movement. So please don't complain. I had no tripod. But the information, if you just listen, don't watch, you'll be very happy to listen to the information. So I did my best anyway. It was too good not to share. I even ran out of battery time and then recorded it with my phone. So I caught even the ending. The last two minutes. I had to record on my phone.

1:39:42BubblemanYou probably saw that Natasha as you were right behind me.

1:39:46DrYeah, it was really cool. And I was impressed by how big the crowd was. There was a turnout. So lots of mushroom lovers in Vancouver area. So good to see. And it was funny because Paul went through it. His theories are quite complex. He had mushroom factoid number one, or I can't remember exactly what he was calling it. And he had these eight major points that he built up to at the end.

1:40:12DrI mean this is his his ideas are complex because he's getting into like um things he's observed within his own backyard or glimpses he's had when he's been walking through the forest and kind of how all these ideas came to him and over time they all accumulated to create this moment of like aha we can save the bees um and so but at the end he kind of goes through all this stuff And I mean, like, it's complicated.

1:40:40DrLike, I was writing notes. I have to even talk about it. Pecumeric acid, that's the one thing I do remember. So that's one of the compounds that is emitted when wood is rotting. And so that was part of the reason why he was finding the bees were attracted to the areas where he was growing mushrooms. Anyway, watch the talk because it gets, I don't want to say it wrong at this point because I might...

1:41:02DrThank you so much for joining us.

1:41:27DrHe was speaking for an hour and a half, just intense, like, blah, blah, blah. And, like, it was quiet in there. Like, it was very attentive, the right crowd.

1:41:38BubblemanYeah, he spoke fast, and he was speaking, you know, maybe about at least 10% of the words he was using were, like, Latin terms in terms of, like, mushrooms and compounds that were so, like, that you probably...

1:41:54SpeakerHey, welcome Marcel.

1:42:19DrAnd I just want to say, speaking fast, but entertaining. Like, listen to it. It's easy to follow along and enjoy it. He's a fabulous speaker. So even though it's complex and dense, the little bits and the little stories are just fascinating. Even if you don't understand all the science, like, it's worth listening to. It's very important information, very relevant. And he even gave glimpses, like, he'll be, what, in the new Star Trek?

1:42:46DrIs that what he was saying? Like, why was he saying watch Star Trek?

1:42:50BubblemanHe said, yeah, he said, I can't say anything because I've signed NDAs, but 2017 Star Trek. So we assume that he'll either, you know, be some character in a mushroom, portrayed as a mushroom guy, or maybe he's helped create unique ecosystems with mushrooms for Star Trek. I don't know exactly, but he definitely gave a little hint that he watched Star Trek 2017.

1:43:16DrHe was going to be helpful in colonizing Mars. That could be an idea like that.

1:43:22BubblemanI did. When he was talking, I definitely could picture like Elon Musk hearing about it and wanting to get, you know, flying down on his private plane to meet with Paul Stamets and find out how they can inoculate Mars. Because this is when I first, one of the first times I saw Paul speak, he was involved in a project where all these different groups, and I may have mentioned this on Hash Church before, so I won't go too deep into it, but basically he was given a large pile of soil that That was, and gasoline and, you know, toxic waste basically.

1:43:52BubblemanAnd I think there were eight or nine of these piles in each group. You know, there was a group of engineers and there was a group of botanists and there was a group of chemical and scientist engineers. Like all these different experts in different fields were like given this earth and it was like you need to make it living. You need to make this alive so it can grow and stuff.

1:44:13BubblemanSo, Everyone else couldn't do shit with it. They're all trying all these different things. Paul's like all inoculated. He figures out the mushroom that he's going to use. He puts wet cardboard that's been poured up on top of this thing. By the time the mushroom starts, you know, he's got that electron scan microscope, which he was showing his pictures with last night. And he started photographing the mycelium matrix.

1:44:39BubblemanAnd as it was developing and creating the Contaminants in the soil started to affect the integrity of the matrix and it would start breaking and start having almost cancerous properties in the way that it's no longer producing the type of matrix it was before. And then he managed to photograph these weird little silver like square jewel spaceship things that show out of nowhere and they just basically...

1:45:06BubblemanSoil keeping the mycelia from creating its matrix. And so once he did that, the mycelia, it took a while, but it eventually cleaned up a lot. Like, I don't know if it's a sort of phytoremediation or if it's literally taking apart, like literally disseminating these compounds. We've attracted birds and insects. The birds were trying to eat the insects on the mushrooms and the mushrooms as well as larger animals.

1:45:33BubblemanThe birds shit seeds on the earth and they grew grasses and flowers and all sorts of things. In a very short time, he just created this incredible living chunk of earth. The photos that he takes you through are just incredible. You know, absolutely inspirational. That was one of the first times I saw Paul speak. And, of course, he got like a mucho standing ovation because, you know, a lot of people, we get together, we talk, we move things forward in our industries.

1:46:03BubblemanBut Paul just seems to be every single thing that he's moved forward is a part of the next thing that he's moving forward. He doesn't seem to have any waste. I think he's an alchemist more than a scientist maybe, even though he says he's neither.

1:46:18SpeakerHe's a very smart guy. I met him when he was in his 20s. And he was a very, very smart guy back then. And he's only picked it up a long time. But you can't always get people to pay attention to these kinds of informations. You know, the oil sands people who are busy pissing away a lot of our good water, especially up in Canada. To get the oil out of the sand.

1:46:45SpeakerI gave those guys a demonstration how they could use gas extraction to clean the sand without using any water whatsoever. But they just weren't fucking interested in that. They had, you know, it was much easier. And they could get the water because nobody was really pitching a bitch about it until everybody saw how fucked up it was, excuse my French, with what happens to the water afterwards.

1:47:09SpeakerBut you can't always get people to pay attention to good things like that. And that's the same problem that Paul has had over the years. People always hear it and go, oh, mushrooms, that's cute.

1:47:22BubblemanYeah, for sure. I mean, he said it a few times that, you know, it's like, oh, nobody was listening to me back then, but they're listening now. It's nice to see. The bottom line is truth seems to make its way to the top if you can uncover it and, you know, push it as hard as you can. It eventually makes it to the top. People eventually hear it and then...

1:47:42BubblemanYeah, I just, like Natasha said, the turnout was good.

1:47:46SpeakerThat's exactly what my teacher used to say. Everything eventually floats to the surface, both the curds and the turds.

1:47:54BubblemanThe curds and the turds. And the oil.

1:47:57SpeakerThat's where discrimination comes in. Yes.

1:48:05BubblemanOh, my God. That's pretty funny.

1:48:08SpeakerOr a separatory bundle.

1:48:14SpeakerThat's going to have to be a hell of a separatory funnel to let the turds and the curds through. I've never seen one quite that big, but I guess they exist.

1:48:22BubblemanVery good. Minor awkward hash church pause. All right, that's done.

1:48:33TonyWell, ball rip then. Let's do this. Exactly. Didn't we just do that? No, we talked about doing it and it looked like myself.

1:48:40SpeakerI've been doing it. Oh, dear. I'm stabbing away and it's done. I'm pulling a mark right now. This is actually a deja vu ball hit. It's just like I just did.

1:48:55BubblemanWell, I'm down, that's for sure.

1:48:58TonyDeja vu. I'm getting my little thing ready. Where are you at, Johnny B?

1:49:10BubblemanJohnny B is in Calgary, I think, at the event that says Hemp.

1:49:14SpeakerI'm at the Calgary Hemp Fest, and you know what? Wow, Mark, we jumped off the ICBC float here, and this fest here, guys, it's really good. The consumers, they want to learn, and it's the first for Calgary, and... I've gotten people coming, doing some ball grips behind the booth. Thanks to the guys on the other side here. They got rigs hooked up here. You were talking about those plastic machines that make things.

1:49:38SpeakerThere's one beside us. It's got hands of hope. You've got so many different great people here supporting the plant. It's really cool, man. I'm really happy to be part of this. For the first for Calgary, it's definitely a thumbs up for Calgary.

1:49:53BubblemanVery nice. I had to mute everything. Sorry, I muted everything.

1:49:57SpeakerDon't forget about me. I got this guy now.

1:50:02SpeakerAnd, well, they can't hear you, but this is the CanadaMedicalDispensary.com. And these guys are kind of, you know, hooking up patients and they're getting things going and trying to, you know, work within the system with what's happening here in Canada. There's lots of good education going on from bond shops. There's just such a great place here, guys. I'm going to walk around again. I showed you that in the beginning before everybody got here.

1:50:24SpeakerI kind of walked around slowly with a laptop to show you who was here and what was going on. So, once again, you know what? The education is It's great here. Love it.

1:50:38BubblemanDude, sweet. Very sweet. We just got to mute your mic when you're not talking because I'm getting a little bit of feedback on the headphones there. And sorry I had to mute everyone else. I thought there would be one microphone that I could mute and then it would make it go away because I've had that happen a few times. But it was just a technical difficulty. Oh, no, it's not.

1:51:01SpeakerAnd it was great to see you, Natasha, at the ICBC event. I think that was really cool to see what happened going on there. I don't know if you guys have talked about it yet or not, but I was in transit, but that was another really good event that's just going on.

1:51:23SpeakerNow we've got the guy here from Hands of Hope.

1:51:29SpeakerSo we've got people coming here and dabbing and saying hi, and one kind of stopped by and said hi to Hashtur. So we're going to have the camera here, and people are just going to come up and wave. How are you doing, Jeff?

1:51:48BubblemanAll right. I guess I'll be the guy who breaks the silence. I had my torch going. That's the reason I wasn't talking. Way for someone to pick.

1:51:57Etienne FontanWell, thank you, sir.

1:52:01TonyI know you don't want to hear my torch. Come on. So, you know, I was going to bring something up, Etienne. That's awesome.

1:52:07SpeakerOkay, this is cool. Here's the 3D printed bong, Tony. We were just talking about 3D printing. This is the guy who's got the 3D printer here. So they did a 3D printed bong. And it's designed like a turbocharger from a car. It's designed like a turbocharger from a car. You got the propeller wheel in the middle.

1:52:23Mark ScaldoneWhat's the material made out of?

1:52:25SpeakerWhat's the material made out of? It's PLA plastic, corn-based.

1:52:28Mark ScaldonePLA plastic, corn-based.

1:52:31SpeakerOkay, PLA is polylactic acid. And then you can hit a pole in there. So it's a what, Mark? It's an acid? Polylactic acid. You place it right here.

1:52:40TonyWhat do you think about that, Mark?

1:52:47BubblemanI think I'm going to stick with my mothership and my ceramic bowl for now. Yeah, I mean, it's probably something to win.

1:52:57Mark ScaldoneMark? Oh, do you guys want my opinion? So yeah, polylactic acid's a common biopolymer that's out there, and it degrades in the environment, which is really important. But you could mold it into parts like that, and you could make it into styrofoam containers. And I think like a lot of those cheap styrofoam dishes, I think a lot of it's got polysaccharide Thank you for joining us.

1:53:37SpeakerWhat about chickpeas? Could you make it from chickpeas? Number one. Number two, Mark, when that stuff's degrading, is there anything that it's degrading out that might be, you know, I mean, are we breathing in something from it?

1:53:51Mark ScaldoneYeah, it's basically bacteria turning it into food and then ultimately turning it into CO2. So it does release CO2 back into the environment. What about when you smoke it with heat applied to it?

1:54:05TonyI'm sorry? Like smoking out of that.

1:54:08Mark ScaldoneYeah, so that's a low-melting plastic, so I wouldn't want it. Have you ever smoked out of a plastic bowl?

1:54:15TonyAny plastic bowl? Yeah, a plastic bong in 93. Tony's big on plastic bowls.

1:54:23Mark ScaldoneThe bowl itself isn't plastic, right, Tony? Isn't it a metal bowl that's on like that?

1:54:28TonyYeah, well, he showed us a bowl. Let's say he puts in a nail or whatever, I mean, or puts his own little glass bowl in there. I guess if you put a glass bowl and just smoke herb out of it, what do you,

1:54:40Mark ScaldoneIt's going to melt. This is like packaging plastic material. It's not a high-melting, high-performance plastic that you'd find in a baking application or in your microwave. Those are high-temperature nylons, which have a lot of additives in there, so they don't degrade. Most plastics, like polylactic acid, don't have much of a thermal stability, and they're going to immediately just start degrading.

1:55:08Mark ScaldoneI was just going to say, for the old school bongs, you know, like the old school tube that had like the metal, like the aluminum tube with the thing, those bongs are really porous to a lot of the, you know, bong water kind of effluent, if you will. So it's difficult to get one of those things totally clean without just etching the surface of the plastic. So if there's bong stuff in the plastic, you can only assume that, you know, if there's some layer, there could be like...

1:55:35Mark ScaldonePlasticizer leached out into the bong water itself at some point that makes the whole thing discolored and, you know, I don't know. I think plastic is something you want to avoid coming in contact with, you know. Yeah, well, just with cannabis in general that you're going to consume, right? I mean, either as a bong material or as a pipe material. I don't see plastic.

1:55:58SpeakerThere was a movie about that. Bong water? I don't know if you ever saw it.

1:56:02Mark ScaldoneYeah.

1:56:03SpeakerYeah.

1:56:04Mark ScaldoneI got thrown out of the dorms because we pimped my RA who got us in trouble for smoking in the dorms. We tilted a bong that was just full of water right next to his dorm and we knocked on it. We took off and when he opened it, it just spilled all over his carpet. It had bong water smell all over his carpet. So yeah, that got me thrown out of the dorms.

1:56:29Mark ScaldoneSo yeah, bong water is nasty. Nasty stuff.

1:56:33BubblemanNot when you're vaping, though. It's only nasty when you're burning, and in particular, it's extremely nasty. Like high school bong water was like buds getting in a bong. That's like one bowl of bud getting smoked through a bong makes that water smell so foul and nasty.

1:56:50SpeakerWell, you know, the Mongolians had those big water pipes. And I have it on good word that they usually use some horse urine in those pipes that they smoke that wild tobacco from.

1:57:08SpeakerHorse urine. That's some nasty bong water there now. Horse urine, huh? Where was this in? Mongolia. Mongolia.

1:57:18TonySo have you seen the horses in Mongolia?

1:57:21SpeakerYeah, they're small, but they still have all the same equipment the other horses have.

1:57:25TonyYeah, no, I just want to make sure that everybody understands what kind of horses are in Mongolia. They're real small ones. Real small.

1:57:32SpeakerI mean, their feet nearly drag on the ground when they ride them. I went there, and they were going to get me on a horse, and I'm like, are you kidding? I could be on the horse and stand up. One foot on either side.

1:57:50TonyYeah, that's how small they are. For me, they're like a pet. They'd be like just a dog, you know?

1:57:54SpeakerYeah, I didn't want to get on it. The guy's like, okay, okay, and I'm like, no, no, no.

1:57:58TonyI'm not even allowed on a regular size horse. I've apparently passed the height and weight limit to be able to ride a horse.

1:58:06BubblemanNo, no, you just need a Clydesdale, bro. No, you don't.

1:58:09SpeakerYou know how you can tell when you're too heavy for a horse. They find every tree branch and every low-hanging obstacle they can to scrape your fat ass off.

1:58:22TonyThey run full speed towards the trees.

1:58:25SpeakerYeah, I've had it happen, so I know it's not something I heard. It's the truth.

1:58:32BubblemanAh, the truth. But how subjective is the truth?

1:58:37SpeakerWell on hash church, pretty subjective.

1:58:40Etienne FontanWell, the truth hates everybody equally, so I guess everyone.

1:58:44SpeakerThe truth's like a bell, you know? If there's a room full of other bells that are open to hearing it, when you strike the bell, they'll all ring. That's called resonation. Well, the truth is the thing. Resonance. It's all waves. The whole thing is waves, man. It's all a vibe.

1:59:03Mark ScaldoneYeah. No negative. But they have to resonate at the same thing, right? They have to all vibe out at the same resonant frequency.

1:59:14SpeakerThat's why bad people like to hang together. Bad people resonate and they hang together. Good people resonate and they hang together with good people. Depends on how you want your bell rang.

1:59:30BubblemanThere it is in a nutshell. I like that. It depends on how you want your bell rang. I feel like I need to ring my bell one more time. Here on Hash Church episode 108. It was so easy to wake up for Hash Church this morning and do it after being nervous about moderating a panel that I just wasn't comfortable moderating. But you guys are easy to moderate.

1:59:54BubblemanYou guys are just like my buddies. We just hang out, we shoot the shit, sometimes we talk over one another, sometimes we are more respectful. But either way, I do appreciate all of you guys coming around and... Sharing your time and opening up these dialogues for all the people who are watching and listening, there really seems to be a following of this sort of core group of people that they need this every Sunday.

2:00:19BubblemanI'm certain if we missed just one, people would be like, oh, that was weird.

2:00:24Etienne FontanI missed y'all last week.

2:00:26BubblemanYou did, and we missed you, man.

2:00:30SpeakerIt's like walking around this HatchFest, guys, and everybody's saying and waving to Hatch Church. You know how many people that are owners of companies that watch us faithfully and they're just so happy to see what we're doing here. They discuss it and we talk with people, the panel and the people you brought on here. Everybody's like, wow, what Hatch Church has become. I'm going to walk around here, you guys, and kind of show you the event.

2:00:49SpeakerLet's get a little bit busier. Then I'm going to tune out and I just want to say, right on, guys.

2:00:55BubblemanHey, thanks for coming out, Johnny and Sharon. Thanks for sharing with us, walking around, and I guess I'll see you in a couple of days, and we'll film another Puff Wednesday.

2:01:05SpeakerI will see you tomorrow, my friend.

2:01:07BubblemanFloatplane.

2:01:09SpeakerFloatplane.

2:01:11BubblemanFloatplane Puff Wednesday episode. John and I have gotten all excited about Puff Wednesdays again. We both got busy. He had his own channel. He was pumping a lot more at the time, but now he's got more time. And so we're going to kind of do that weekly Puff Wednesday thing. And it's fun. We have a blast, man. I don't know if you guys checked out the last one, but we went up to Grouse Mountain.

2:01:35BubblemanWe took a big gondola up Grouse Mountain. Then I brought my drone and I flew it around Grouse Mountain to give you guys a really beautiful view of the mountains and Vancouver City. And then we just kind of hiked around. We bumped into a couple of grizzly bears up there that were just like, I guess, Gross Mountain used to have, what did they used to have? They had wolves, like it was a pack of wolves that they saved from, The movie industry, the movie industry was going to kill these wolves and Grouse Mountain was like, you know what?

2:02:02BubblemanWe've got a beautiful place. We can pen them off. We'll make it a place people can come and learn about wolves. And they, you know, they basically treated these wolves pretty great until their passing. They weren't going to do it again. And then I guess these two big bears from the industry, the movie industry came out. I'm not a big fan of animals in captivity. It was super trippy on that Puff Wednesday to be as stoned as we were.

2:02:24BubblemanAnd walk around a corner and just see like these two grizzly bears standing there with like people standing on another, this other side of a town. Tiny fence, they definitely let me tell you. Even if they had that shit coursing with electricity, if that bear wanted to get out of there, it would be pretty much a very quick experience, a very fast, they were just so big, I couldn't believe you could go stand five feet from two grizzly bears.

2:02:51BubblemanSo check out that Puff Wednesday if you want to check that out.

2:02:55SpeakerIt was epic. Let me tell you, it gave me goosebumps. We walked around that corner and it was just like, oh, I can't believe this video is here. And we were just like, it was, it was, yeah, you can see it on our faces. It was probably one of the most, for me, it was one of the most funnest, epic. We went around that corner like, hey, we're dabbing right here.

2:03:12SpeakerCome on, let's take the drone out. We went around a corner and no one even went around that corner. We found like, we just walked into the perfect spots and no one was around. It was like, that's what we did.

2:03:22BubblemanYeah, yeah, it's fun. It's nerve-wracking at the same time because when you're putting energy into trying to get a good little show to fall together and for everything to work out and we're not, we have no permission. We have no like, you know, like we're just doing it. We're like, we'll ask for forgiveness later rather than for permission now. I'm not sure if that's how you guys like to go about things sometimes, but I'll tell you.

2:03:46BubblemanForgiveness is much easier to ask for sometime than permission. Yeah. Not telling you all these things without permission, but I sure do a fair bit of it.

2:03:57SpeakerSo what's going on, Marcel? Not too much. Just got back from Glass Roots. It was pretty amazing. Amazing show. I had some great experiences. I hung out with some amazing people. Awesome. You know, we're doing these coins at the events now. And at Glassroots, there's a company called HIS Glassworks that had polishing equipment. So we were actually able to create a coin from the beginning to the end off-site.

2:04:28SpeakerSo that was kind of a first for the Starship in Every Garage Project 33. Here's a slice of the coin.

2:04:38SpeakerI'll hold it here and you guys can ask me some questions if you like.

2:04:41BubblemanPull it back a little bit. Pull it back a little bit. A little bit more.

2:04:45SpeakerYou guys got any ability to read it? It's pretty small.

2:04:53BubblemanPull it back a little more. Something to eliminate fear.

2:04:57SpeakerYes, it says amplify compassion to eliminate fear.

2:05:03BubblemanNice. Dude, I remember you talking about this when it was just a concept and a dream and now you're doing it. And now it's like you've done a coin from start to finish like at an event. Like how kind of trippy. Manifesting your own reality, you're like, oh, coincidentally, there was an equipment place there that had polishing equipment. It's like, no, dude, you manifested that shit like two and a half years ago when you were like, I'm going to create this.

2:05:28BubblemanThank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's definitely been a really like interesting process of like standing

2:05:55SpeakerYou know, standing with the idea and not letting my artistic integrity get sidetracked by, you know, economic pressure or, you know, it's definitely been a difficult, difficult at times, but overall, like, I mean, now that we're kind of on like a, maybe like a cresting point, we're going to start to get some downhill momentum building up. It feels really, really worth it. You got to stick with it.

2:06:24SpeakerWhen everybody tells you to quit and it's not going to work, you got to stick with it. My patent languished for eight years, and now it's just turned into the hottest thing since sunburn. And so what I can tell you is don't give up, because sooner or later, if you stick to it, it'll come around to you. There's no such thing as an overnight sensation anyway. You can forget about that, unless you're talking about big accidents or something.

2:06:51SpeakerBut if you want to get somewhere on top of the pile, you got to climb it. It takes a while to get up there. So stick to it.

2:06:59Etienne FontanYep. You got up today. You did it yesterday. Get up today. Do it again. Get up tomorrow. Do it again. All of us have been successful. We just get up every day and do it. Do what you love. And it's great to see exactly go from an idea to fruition. And now it's a reality. And now it's a reality that how many people share with you, Marcel.

2:07:20Etienne FontanSo thank you very much for taking the risk, you know, of self of person to actually go out there and actually challenge yourself, but also shows how universal your idea was by how accepted it was. So much respect.

2:07:33SpeakerThanks, guys. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, we're just... Go ahead. I was just going to throw out a couple of... You know updates about the about the project and um you know we're uh Dan Collins is on board fully and we have a uh we're about to start a campaign to fund his uh documentary going into the editing stage and uh you know that so that's one of the major major things that we're working on this week is Kind of finalizing the details of how people are going to be able to interface outside of just purchasing coins, which remains to be really the best way to build the sacred economy because when the coins go from being something that we created to being something that somebody purchased, it's like activating the software.

2:08:26SpeakerIt's like a phone, but until you activate it, it's just a broken phone.

2:08:33SpeakerSo really like the currency doesn't fully come alive until there's a two-way participation between the people that are creating it because they have the time and the energy and the craftsmanship skills and then the people who are able to purchase it because they have the The means and the motivation and their skill set lies outside of or their geographical location makes it so they can't come and be a part of the actual creation of it, you know, because what's important is for people to realize that it takes the whole cycle cycling for this to really start going.

2:09:11BubblemanRight. Well, it's cool that what you're doing though is that you're not just trying to like create a value out of nothing like the way paper money or a bit, Coincidence itself without people engaging in what you're trying to create with it still exists on another level through collectors who it's very natural for them to be like I'll pay like 1500 bucks for that like that's I collect those type of things so that's that's what's unique as well in the sense that there's really already a value in In the ARC form, in everything that you guys already, it's already been set up, sort of speak, and now you're just directing it into a different direction.

2:09:59BubblemanI guess platform, rather than the platform that when Andrew was saying, you know, you got to, it takes a while to climb up to the top of the pile. I picture Marcel, I'm like, no, he's in a bulldozer, bulldozing down the pile so it's all even. I think that's what this whole trip about what he's doing is to not build a pile. And I know John used that as a metaphor.

2:10:19BubblemanHe wasn't speaking exact. I was just thinking, knowing you and your project that, uh, Yeah, you're going to be more like... You're just trying to create this more even playing field than the current one that... Well, right.

2:10:31SpeakerI mean, the concept of this thing was really... It crystallized a large bit when I was watching a video with this... They were talking about the dangers of fractional reserve lending and having this larger and larger debt balanced on a smaller and a smaller amount of value as the value of the planet is discovered and put into play. There's like... Exponentially more debt being created for each piece of value and there's this sort of system that works to make that happen where you just have to constantly be feeding fresh meat and this system is designed to Do the same thing, but we're going to take the fresh meat off of that pile and put it into this other pile.

2:11:13SpeakerSo we're basically just shoring up the foundation. We're not even shoring up the foundation. We're just taking energy out of the unsustainable system. We're using it to create art. And when people appreciate that art, it's starting a new pile of resource that exists for a different purpose. Well, to them, this sustainable system, because they all have printing presses, and therein lies the problem right there. Perceived value has gone down the toity, because they have fooled everybody into thinking, all you need is this piece of paper right here, which represents this.

2:11:52SpeakerAnd truth really be known, I mean, if things got really bad, you can't eat gold either. And so... All are glass or anything else. But, you know, a time when the paper would go away, things of value would persist. Something like what you're talking about could persist as a perceived value, whereas paper does nothing backing it up. And what backs up your coins is the coin itself.

2:12:22SpeakerAnd so that's how I see it. Exactly. I mean, the coin itself is backing it up because they are sufficiently rare. And the other thing that's really important to me about this is the coins are made from a space of gift. We're not a corporation that's making profit to create the coins. Like the people who cut the coin and polish the coin and make the coin come and they participate based on a desire for positive change.

2:12:49SpeakerSo So rather than make a trade based in debt, we're able to, when we trade with coins, we're making a trade based in gifts. So we've already gifted to the situation the trade medium, and if there's taxes that are going to have to be paid, we'll be paying taxes. So I don't have a... I feel that this is an art project, and I'm just pushing it as an art project, but as it develops more and goes forward, there's undoubtedly going to be some...

2:13:21SpeakerYou know some challenges on how to treat it in terms of using it in people's books and stuff but you know the reality is that it's it's bartering and that these are their artwork that has intrinsic value so again I mean I can't speculate in front of so many people about what my thoughts are because they aren't fully researched but I think that there's a lot of interesting You know, meet here where when you're not trading IOUs, you're not regulated by the same types of rules that they have for like a complimentary currency.

2:13:58SpeakerYou know, like if I said, hey, I'm going to make a Eugene script that glassblowers are going to use and printed up Xerox papers, like I would totally be able to do that, but there would be definite rules and limitations about how that could be used. Those are called coupons. Right. Right, exactly. And we're going for something a little bit more revolutionary than a coupon. Yes, well.

2:14:24SpeakerAnd a token. Yeah, tokens and coupons.

2:14:28BubblemanA token.

2:14:30Mark ScaldoneYeah, like a subway token. Like in some cities to ride around in their little rapid transit little train that takes you around into downtown, you have to buy like a little 50 cent or dollar token and their little, you know, metallic token that's got an image of the city or the train on it or something like that. It's a decorative little token that you use to go through the turnstile to get on the train.

2:14:54SpeakerEvery one of those has clearly printed on it the word token. So it's not mistaken for money, though. You know, all those coins have token. All the tickets and stuff have ticket or token marked on them. Because the government is very particular about what's being used for money. And so I see, Marcel, you're walking a thin line. But gee whiz, it all depends on how you look at it.

2:15:21SpeakerA thin line from the air can be an eight lane road from a man who's grounded. Right. Right. I mean, I feel that there's a, you know, as an art project to increase awareness about the situation that we collectively as a race are in, this is, you know, whatever the outcome is, The more we use it, the better the outcome's going to be. Like, if there's some sort of action that comes because we use it so much, then, I mean, that's just forward progress of the art.

2:15:58SpeakerYeah, well, I mean, there's people who sell thousands of prints of paintings, and so it's going to be hard for them to beat you in a court of law about that. I mean, tax will have to be... Don, among the users and not you, you're just making the original art and you sell the original art and then what happens to it after that is out of your hands, isn't it?

2:16:22SpeakerAbsolutely. Absolutely. There's no... That's one of the reasons why there's no... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:16:55SpeakerSo my studio and be involved in putting a coin from the beginning to the end.

2:17:01Mark ScaldoneCould a factory in China just mass produce these things and completely, you know, take the worth out of them just because they could make them on such a tremendous large scale?

2:17:13SpeakerIt's pretty unlikely. I've actually developed procedures for making Marini that are, I can make Marini bigger than anyone else on the planet right now.

2:17:23Mark ScaldoneI mean... Yeah, for the novice, what does that mean exactly?

2:17:28SpeakerA large marini last year was probably 10 pounds.

2:17:35SpeakerI'm routinely... Hold on, time out. What is a marini, for those of us who don't know? Sorry, I'll slow way down. Okay, so a marini is the technique for making these glass coins. And what we do is we make a giant log, and it has the image going all the way through the log. Little coins. And so then when we slice it into a slice like this, you can see kind of the lines on the side that are the letters.

2:17:59SpeakerHere's a chunk of cane. So this one says, gift is the new bling.

2:18:07SpeakerSo when you slice this thing up, I mean, basically, like, so what I was saying is if somebody makes one of these borosilicate marinis, last year, if you made something that weighed 10 pounds, that was very much a large scale situation. Since we started using the glory hole and practicing with the team to make these marini, We're getting finished pulls that have 20 pounds of image plus the end caps.

2:18:36SpeakerSo I'm working with pieces of glass that range from like 30 to 45 pounds, which is, it's on the large scale of glassworking, regardless of what kind of glass you're using, whether it's borosilicate or soft glass. So doing it with borosilicate is kind of like having the like extra Extra brass balls or whatever the extra level of being like oh I'm just not only am I going to make this big marini but we're going to make it out of a higher melting point more resilient higher quality material yeah absolutely it's much more pure of them it's probably more expensive yes yeah I mean the the raw material costs around 20 bucks a pound So can I ask you a question?

2:19:21SpeakerIn the 70s, the guy at L.A. at the college taught glass there, who was famous. I don't remember his name at this moment because my memory is foggy anymore these days. But I watched him put together a The Lord's Prayer on a huge scale. So that a tiny piece of it about the size of a human hair could be looked at through a microscope and saw that the entire prayer was there in perfect condition.

2:20:01SpeakerDo you know the guy I'm talking about? Yeah, that's Dick Marquis, I believe. Right, Dick, right. I couldn't remember his name. But anyway, I saw a lot of his work because I was there around that time. I wasn't studying glass, but I was studying something else. But he was doing some really amazing stuff with putting the same kind of thing that you're talking about, I guess. I haven't really seen one of your coins close up except for the screen, which isn't a very good approximation of it.

2:20:30SpeakerIt's exactly what we're doing. It's pretty much the same process. I mean, I wasn't there to see precisely how he menagulated the material, but like the manipulation is basically similar. At the end of his process, he would have had to get the chunk that had the whole Lord's Prayer in it. Hot with the glory hole on a blowpipe or a punty and stretch it down to make it go from, you know, a foot in diameter to probably whatever his target size was.

2:21:00SpeakerIt was three feet in diameter. It was huge. And that's what was so amazing. So how many, you said a lot of people on the team. Oh, listen, I went there for a week every day. Thank you for joining us.

2:21:32SpeakerThat was a massive project that, you know, it stemmed from somebody who just is incredibly tuned into the nature of glass, who learned a new technique. The Italians showed him Marini work, and he's like, wait, what? And, you know, and I know that that's part of his tradition in glasses. He just, you know, went for it as soon as he delved into that. And, I mean, deciding to make The Lord's Prayer, As a, as a Marini, I mean, that's a, it's a huge task.

2:22:00SpeakerLike we're doing statements with, you know, 25, 30, 35 characters. And that's, you know, those are fairly large, large builds. Now there's, I'm surprised. I just assumed I was that the Lord's Prayer build was done in stages where they made like a part of the page and pulled it down and then pulled down the next part and then stacked those together and then pulled that down. So you're telling me they did the whole thing in one shot?

2:22:29SpeakerI'm pretty sure. I have some old pictures. I'll have to look for them in my picture stash because back then we didn't have digital. But I was taking a picture of the original thing because it was huge. It was like... Three feet across and it was not a perfect circle. It was kind of multi-sided. And when they got onto it and started doing it, I kept thinking to myself, how in the flipping hell are they going to do that?

2:23:05SpeakerAnd then I just kept going back at lunchtime on different days. Somehow or another, they managed to finagle it and it was just, I'm still impressed because when I saw the little tiny piece and saw how clear it was afterwards, I was just floored that he could actually manage to do that.

2:23:25TonyWell, I also think that, I think Marcel covered this before, because Mark, the Chinese will copy it. They'll take a digital image. They'll place it in the glass. They'll do whatever they got to do to make it look like it. And just like they're doing motherships for $40. They don't care about the quality, the look of it, or anything like that. It's just representing something. And for them, it's representing object equals cash.

2:23:49TonyAnd how many of them can they make? But I think, Marcel, didn't you say you had inside each coin there was a special, you were putting some kind of special cereal or some kind of special...

2:24:01SpeakerSome of the coins have some UV reactive glass in different areas and stuff. You know, really, my feeling on the Marini is that a close inspection of the Marini, if somebody's actually looking to find a counterfeit, it should be You know, pretty easy to identify any kind of counterfeiting just based on how dynamic the making of a marini is. Like each slice, at this point, we're photographing each slice, which also is helpful.

2:24:33SpeakerSo you can kind of, you know, once we have those logs published, it'll be really easy to pick out the counterfeits because if they're not on our list, You know, you'll be able to figure it out by where the different bubbles are and so on and so forth. Like each one marini might have a bubble in the center and then the other, you know, then there might be a bubble that goes through 15 coins by the R and then there's a bubble that goes by the, you know, next to the point in 5.0 for a few coins.

2:25:07SpeakerCan I make a suggestion? I don't even know if this is possible, but if you could change some of the glass in it to a denser glass with a bit of metallic in it that can't be seen by the eye, but when photographed infrared-wise, would show up because of different heat dissipations, and that would be a way that the Chinese might not get onto for some time, if that would work.

2:25:32SpeakerWe could also make our own glasses, so if we use only blends, you know, if we use a blend of glass that we choose, we would have to know what glasses we blended to get a certain color. The Chinese always use leaded glass. Right, yeah. They use lead in food too, isn't that a coincidence? Yeah, they put lead in everything. Honestly, because of what we're doing here, if they...

2:26:03SpeakerIf they came up and created a bunch of coins for us and we started to trade in them, they would basically just be doing our work for us and providing more trade medium and then people could collect the ones that we made as the actual art they're collecting and we'll just trade with the Chinese ones. It's still better than the dollar.

2:26:22Mark ScaldoneAnd you keep innovating. You keep innovating and changing your coins and they'll keep trying to follow and keep trying to be in your footsteps, right? I mean, change the features of the coin itself, right?

2:26:35SpeakerI think we're too far ahead of ourselves here. I don't think the Chinese are in any hurry to follow down my footsteps, just to be honest. Yeah, I think we're way ahead of ourselves on future stuff here. When you see the first couple of Chinese coins show up, then worry. Until then, I wouldn't give it a second thought. Yeah, I mean, if there's Chinese coins, then I'm really interested to see what my life looks like at that point.

2:27:04Mark ScaldoneWell, they have to be watching Hash Church, right? Isn't Hash Church broadcasted in China?

2:27:09BubblemanNo. Yeah, it's being translated right now to my factories there.

2:27:14TonyWell, I think you got to start worrying, Marcel.

2:27:19SpeakerWell, we've had some talks about making a Hash Church coin for you guys.

2:27:25BubblemanI love the idea of a Hash Church coin.

2:27:28SpeakerHeck yeah. You know... Who would have them then?

2:27:34BubblemanWho would have them? You would have them all, Indra. They all go to you.

2:27:39SpeakerNo, I'd have to just send them out to all the viewers because I'm not into that sort of thing, you know. I need what I need to make my life get by and happy, and I'm not in a hurry to climb on anybody's back to depend on them for anything. I've seen that. I was born on Army base. Dad was in the Army. I grew up all around the world in many different countries and I've watched clearly how the United States has treated people around the world and I know what it's like to be in a minority because I grew up in Okinawa in Japan and there was like six white kids and all the rest of the kids were Asian and they treated us the same way that we treat minorities in this country.

2:28:27SpeakerThey wanted to kick our butts. They called us names. You know, the whole nine yards. So I've been on the merry-go-round and seen all the other rides and I'm like, I want to make this, the only footprint I want to make in the world is if I did something good, I hope people remember that after I'm gone, but I'm not going to be foolish enough to think that legacy is anything other than another spelling of illusion.

2:28:58TonyAll right. On the glass subject, have you guys ever seen one of these before? A little terp cap? Yeah.

2:29:06BubblemanI think maybe a couple of weeks ago. That one right there maybe. It looks like a bowler.

2:29:14Etienne FontanYeah, I showed that a couple of weeks ago.

2:29:16BubblemanWe talked about it a little bit, Tony. Does it get warm enough that it would turn the color of the terps yellow?

2:29:23TonyOh, I don't know. I haven't used it before. I got this from Todd. He let me check it out. He was telling me to put my Terps in here, but I was wondering if, you know, it's a cool concept.

2:29:37Etienne FontanIt works. I've had it for a couple of weeks. I was away for 10 days on a little... Road trip around America, but when I'm here, I've been using it and it's interesting. It's definitely a way to, I think that the glass is a little thick, but it definitely does heat up the terpenes so they lightly evaporate as opposed to just go. So that I like about it.

2:29:59Etienne FontanSo it also depends on your terps and what you have access to.

2:30:05Etienne FontanYeah, access. Yeah, Andy's Hammers Pipes makes those. Oh, that same guy that did the Hash Hammer. Yeah, the Hash Hammers. He makes that. I had him make this because I got one out of Canada that was made for a banger, and I had reached out to those people saying about having to make one for my denail, and so that was the concept that we came up with there because we wanted something that was at the top that you could, you know, grab without the heat transfer.

2:30:31TonyIt was a great turp chaser because if you do a dab, right, and then you Cap it. This is your carb cap, and you have terps in your carb cap. Then you get a little terp chaser.

2:30:44Etienne FontanBut I also did find, and that's what Bubble Man was referring to, is if it changes the color, because I have terpenes that are clear, but after using it for a bit, they are no longer clear. They're kind of an amber color.

2:30:56TonyInside this thing, or from dabbing it? Yes, inside there. Oh, yeah, of course, because there's heat, oxygen. So it oxygenates and breaks it down. Yeah. Hmm. I like the concept a lot though. I have to try it out.

2:31:15TonyThat's all. I don't have anything crazy blast related, just that.

2:31:21Etienne FontanIt's just one of those new technologies that go with the new concept that you've been able to promote with the terps. Now, there's got to be different ways to ingest the terps. We know that directly putting them onto a hot nail is rather inefficient, needless to say, much less depending on your temperature, you can destroy the terpy and the flavor altogether. I think the first time you and I met, you gave me some terps and we didn't check the temperature and the temperature was too high.

2:31:49Etienne FontanAnd I could tell immediately the difference in the flavor between the ones that was at the right temperature to actually ingest it.

2:31:57SpeakerWhat is the right temperature?

2:31:59TonyLike 385 to 420 on a silicon carbide on the flat wall.

2:32:04BubblemanPure Turks?

2:32:05TonyYeah. Very low.

2:32:07BubblemanI prefer it on the vapex hail, I have to say. That vapex hail gives the most perfect, pure terp rips out of any other unit that I've hit. Now, it's the difference between putting it right onto a hot dish and then putting it into cool quartz.

2:32:24TonyWell, that's key.

2:32:25BubblemanSliding it into that convention. Yeah.

2:32:28TonyThe quartz rod, because they do have glass rods, and people that tried the glass rods have complained before, and I said, you've got to get the quartz rods.

2:32:36BubblemanAh, of course.

2:32:37TonyMakes sense. That's where those complaints are coming from, where they're like, oh, I tried it, but it doesn't have the flavor. And it's really low on the vape exhale. It's just you turn it on and then turn it off.

2:32:50SpeakerWell, the 385, what does that work out to watt-wise if you've got a battery that's putting out to your nail? I don't know, really low. Mine goes from zero to 200.

2:33:02TonyI think the way you got to, just the best way, visually monitor. If you drop a terpene on something that you're trying to vaporize and it immediately vaporizes, it's too hot. It should drop, pool, get like just kind of spread out. And then when you carb cab it, it actually evaporates all of it. In that perfect vaporization moment, then you've got it. But if it's like burning, sizzling, like immediately gone, then it's way too hot.

2:33:32SpeakerYeah, okay. You know, I took that first bottle and I tried dipping the oil on the end of a toothpick into the bottle, just getting a tiny, tiny amount of it on there. Thank you for watching. I'll see you next time.

2:34:04SpeakerWell, I'm glad I lucked upon that. I just I came to that conclusion because I saw the bottle and I'm like, holy crap. How is this going to be one of the most expensive highs I've ever had? Or is it going to be one of the highest highs I've ever had that didn't really cost that much considering the joy that it brought?

2:34:26TonyAnd it was the latter, of course, because... Well, if you turped it, like I was showing you the vial before, you can get 50 to 75 of those. So it's really relative when people say it's expensive. It's, you know, cost is reflective of the plant, but how you use it's important. If you're just dropping full drops onto the nail, yeah, in 10 goes, you're going to be gone.

2:34:48TonyBut...

2:34:49SpeakerYeah, you got to learn to, you know, I've had to learn using this dab pipe all over again, how little you can put in and still get the same effect. Because I was putting so much oil in the beginning that it shot out the sides and drained down the side. And I came to the conclusion that you're overdoing it. So I kept... You know, reducing it, reducing it.

2:35:10SpeakerSo now, I mean, the next time I have some curbs, I'm going to be much more judicious in the application.

2:35:18BubblemanOh, you mean on Tuesday or Wednesday? Wednesday.

2:35:22SpeakerSay again? Say again?

2:35:24BubblemanI'm getting that. One mic here. Oh, it was. I had to mute you, Marcel. I was getting a wicked echo. I was saying that you mean Tuesday or Wednesday when Tony comes and visits you, and it would be good for you guys to decide in the near future so I can tell Bishop from the conference I met here recently who wants to bring the RotoVac.

2:35:45Mark ScaldoneBishop from Head On.

2:35:47BubblemanYes, Mike. So he says he wants to stop by the same day that Tony comes by. So let me know at the end of Hash Church exactly what day that is. Wednesday. Then it's Wednesday. Perfect. I'll tell Mike Wednesday it is. And you guys are going to all, yeah, this is going to be cool. I want to be there on like Google Chat, you guys.

2:36:08Etienne FontanYeah. You're going to have to see me.

2:36:13BubblemanTony's in the basement mixing up the medicine.

2:36:16Etienne FontanHey, how about Robert Zimmerman and his Nobel Peace Prize?

2:36:20BubblemanWow. Literature, Bob Dylan, you went over it last week.

2:36:24Etienne FontanWell, I have people who think on both sides. Some people say it's a great thing. I know people who are literature people who say that just degraded the entire... Thank you so much for joining us.

2:36:52Etienne FontanYou know, at a time by Bob Dylan, you know, so just because of his influence, his breadth of work, you know, just, you know, all along the Watchtower itself, powerful song. He plays that song, creates the song, hears Hendrix play it, and says, it's your song. I mean, the guy is very humble, and he's a great lyricist, I can't deny it, but Nobel Peace Prize for Literature, that one is interesting.

2:37:22SpeakerWell, you know, people who make agreements to stop wars between countries, it's written on paper, and it's a kind of a song without the music literature again. So I could sort of understand it. I'm not that crazy about the Nobel Any Prize because Nobel funded it all after he invented dynamite and nitroglycerin, which has, in the ensuing years, blown half of the world off the face of the map.

2:37:51SpeakerSo I don't know. It's kind of like, I don't know. I find it hard to even make a simile for it because it's such a hard.

2:38:00Mark ScaldoneWell, dynamite was used for a lot of like, you know, blasting to make railroads and roads. And there's good beneficial aspects of dynamite too. There's just not just the bad things. But I hear what you're saying, John.

2:38:13SpeakerIt was mostly the bad things that they use it for. Yeah, they do some land clearing, but they do another kind of land clearing with it, which blows people all over. You know, they're pretty indiscriminate. And he gave that to the world. And I understand he's trying to compensate by coming up with the Nobel Peace Prize because, you know, he... He really made it so that we could kill more people with less effort.

2:38:40Mark ScaldoneWell, literature is the written word, and certainly Dylan is the poet of our time, at least in terms of musical poet, and music is just a vehicle to deliver his message. And then Nobel really is based on the impact that it has on society, and so certainly you can't think about All of those protests in the 60s without, you know, blowing in the wind or, you know, the message that music can change the way people think and the way people behave.

2:39:13Mark ScaldoneAnd it's just great that he's still around, but I can tell you I have a good friend who works in the catering business and he often caters Bob Dylan shows. And you're not allowed to look at Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan does not want to be looked at. If you look at Bob Dylan... And he finds out that you've looked at him. I guess he'll make sure that your catering company doesn't cater his concerts anymore.

2:39:39Mark ScaldoneSo he is a very difficult, peculiar guy who certainly has rubbed a lot of people in the wrong way for a lot of different reasons. But the impact that his music has had, and me, I'm a student of Jerry Garcia, You know, Jerry probably plays the Dylan songbook probably just as good as anybody, certainly better than Dylan, at least in terms of vocals. And when Dylan teamed up with the dad band, that was just such a powerful moment.

2:40:09Mark ScaldoneA couple of years back in 86 and 87. And I think that, you know, you can't imagine what life would be like today without somebody like Bob Dylan or the Beatles or all these old acts that played at Old Cella or whatever they call it, that desert gig that was down there. But you think about it, you know. I mean, we lost David Bowie. We lost David Bowie this year.

2:40:33Mark ScaldoneAnd this is the music that we all grew up with and we all listened to it. And whether we like it or not, it's influenced who we are and how we are and how we look at different situations. And so I think it's very appropriate that they give it to Dylan because of the impact that his music and his message has had. I don't like listening to Bob Dylan sing.

2:40:55Mark ScaldoneI like listening to Jerry Garcia play

2:40:59SpeakerMark, everybody's gladdening now and they're giving him a Nobel Peace Prize, but back then he was under investigation by the FBI as a subversive, along with everybody else who was singing songs like that, who were bringing stuff to light that you're supposed to keep your mouth shut about. And that's what he was doing. And he didn't care about being an artist. Right from the beginning, he wasn't crazy about being out in the open.

2:41:26SpeakerAnd I know you're a Jerry Garcia freak, that's clear, but not everybody is.

2:41:32Mark ScaldoneYeah, but that's okay. I mean, Jerry said it just like some people like licorice and other people don't like licorice, but the people who like licorice really like licorice, right? And so, yeah, I totally get it. And again, that's what's moved me and I think Mark and maybe a few other people on the panel, but it's great that, again, We're still talking about Jerry Garcia and listening to his music.

2:41:58Mark ScaldoneAnd his music permeates our airwaves years after he's dead and gone, which tells you how important his music was. And, you know, I know you and Sam grew up in California. I get it. But I grew up in New Jersey. And I'm telling you, you know, again, Jerry Garcia has saved my life. I met my wife because I used to play in a Grateful Dead band, and my wife and I met because I used to play in a band.

2:42:25Mark ScaldoneSo I tell my kids all the time, if it wasn't for Jerry Garcia, you wouldn't be here. So music is my religion, and Jerry Garcia was the prophet that brought me into a better life. So that's what it did for me, but it doesn't do it for everybody.

2:42:39SpeakerI bet your kids hate you. When you say we, do you have a mouse in your pocket, or...? I'm just wondering what the record is.

2:42:46Mark ScaldoneNo, I'm talking about my wife, my partner in life, my wife. We, my family, right? I raised two musical kids.

2:42:53Etienne FontanI was not a fan of the dead, but however, the dead scene was the only place back in the early 90s I could find or access psychedelics. So when I was going to college in West Virginia, we had to go up to Pittsburgh to the dead shows. And then when I moved out west and was out here in the Cannabis Action Network, we were allowed to set up on Shakedown Street as a cannabis booth.

2:43:18Etienne FontanAnd then in time, Jerry let us come in and do, the Grateful Dead invited us in to gather signatures for, Thank you for joining us.

2:43:52Etienne FontanI was from the hardcore punk growing up in the heavy metal era, so that was kind of my things.

2:43:57SpeakerTo tell the truth, isn't Jerry Garcia music repetitive? I can't tell one song from another.

2:44:04Etienne FontanI tell people it's just... Anyway, regardless, that's just my own thing. It's a tape.

2:44:11Mark ScaldonePersonal flavor, personal taste kind of thing.

2:44:13Etienne FontanExactly, like me. I love heavy, loud music. For me, that is as relaxing as somebody going to the symphony. Everybody's different. However, I will give Jerry his influence on the entire scene. All around the United States, which of course I had influence around the world of the drug culture, access to the drug culture. I bought, you know, goo balls.

2:44:38Mark ScaldoneI mean, they were the house band at the acid test. People used to walk down.

2:44:41Etienne FontanThey were the bands at the acid test. Oh, I understand that. I get that. I know where the acid, my friend lives at the acid house. So, in Berkeley. So, I mean, I would watch people walk with huge amanita muscarias through these parking lots. Just holding them, mushrooms for sale. I mean, there was no other place I had ever had seen or had access to that there was a drug culture and there it was.

2:45:05Etienne FontanAnd if you wanted to access it, you could. And there was the music. And at the end of every shakedown street, there was a chalkboard. And every, I gave respect to the dead that every set was different. Every set was marked down on the end of shakedown street. For everyone to see, as the songs played, somebody would relay it outside to somebody way before internet and before all these crazy phones.

2:45:27Etienne FontanThey had a network so that they could actually post what songs were playing live. And if you wanted to, you could buy the bootlegs. People had the, they had the tapes of the shows because the Grateful Dead were also one of the early ones to allow people to come and tape shows. So I saw people get into collecting Shows, tapes. Oh, oh, you've got this date. I've got this date.

2:45:48Etienne FontanOh, let's trade. So it created this whole community that were between drug culture, music culture. I had no doubt but to respect the wholeness of it all because I know it was created from the music, but the entire thing that actually spread from it all was quite humbling to witness and to be a part of. And I was very thankful for my times. Even though I wasn't into the music, Even though I was inside, and that's why I was inside gathering signatures, because I didn't want to be in there dancing to the music.

2:46:19Etienne FontanHowever, there were the spinners. And if you don't know who the spinners were, people, they're these people who are like whirling dervishes who do nothing but spin in circles. And I used to have to go sometime to side stage and go talk to the people working for the dead, et cetera, et cetera. And I could literally walk through. Thank you for joining us today.

2:46:53Etienne FontanBut there was a whirling dervish in front, beside, and behind me, and I could walk through them seamlessly. So again, all these different facets of culture, from the tie-dye t-shirts to all that that really encompass nothing but respect because of the depth of it all. I've known few musicians or bands who could create that type of depth that still lives on after their lead singer dies. I mean, it's incredible.

2:47:20SpeakerBut you know what? Last week when I said out loud that people sold tapes and sold them at the Dead Show, Mark got all over me that no dead person would ever sell a tape to anybody else. And it was a huge business outside.

2:47:34Etienne FontanI saw people buying and selling those tapes en masse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people were really, the upper echelon were those that only traded. They didn't sell, but I saw, I have over,

2:47:45Mark ScaldoneAbout 5,000 tapes. I didn't ever buy or sell a single tape. I've traded them. We traded them. We used to tape, and you traded your collection with someone else's collection. That's what you did. If people were selling it, well, people were also selling Steal Your Face shirts, and the Steal Your Face is a registered logo to the band. The shirt police might come out there and confiscate those shirts.

2:48:10Mark ScaldoneBut half the time you see someone trying to sell you a $5 or $10 concert shirt and some guys, hey, get your tour shirt, tour shirt here, tour shirt. That's a mafioso and his brother's selling nitrous in the lot too, man. Oh, yeah. The mafia knows that when those traveling circuses go from town to town, they need drugs and they need t-shirts and they need alcohol and they need everything, right?

2:48:33BubblemanThat's what he was saying, Mark. He wasn't saying the inner core awesome dead people that you love and care for. Oh, yeah, yeah. Selling tapes.

2:48:40Mark ScaldoneHe was saying... Maybe not the... Yeah, people on the outer fringes. No, I get it.

2:48:50SpeakerYou gotta remember Mark's a Grateful Dead freak and he also likes toe jam, so...

2:48:57Mark ScaldoneWell, I happen to also know it was the Dave Matthews police of Corn Capshaw and Red Light Entertainment that came down on a lot of local record shops that were in the practice of, yes, developing a tape collection and then basically selling blank tapes and then offering just as a free service to, hey, and I'll make you a recording of this tape. Well, that's totally an illegal practice and they stopped that.

2:49:25Mark ScaldoneThat's not happening anymore. But it was actually the Dave Matthews police that came down on that.

2:49:29BubblemanInteresting. Yeah, well, I remember when Dave went big, they signed with like BMI or something?

2:49:36Mark ScaldoneRed Light Entertainment is his whole thing. Red Light, yeah. It was BMI. Oh, they went to RCA. RCA was their first deal, I think. I'm pretty sure. Under the Table and Dreaming in 1994.

2:49:53Mark ScaldoneYeah, it was after that.

2:49:56Etienne FontanI was on that tour for... Yeah, I was on that Horde tour where he actually came out. I actually met him and the rest of the band. They were very cool with cannabis and we were promoting hemp products and stuff. And later on when I was at the Ecolotion Hemp Company, we actually ended up coating them in hemp. But that disheartens me to hear that they were actually the ones to kind of kill that trade scene because that was... Well, no, it was the record company.

2:50:22Mark ScaldoneYeah. It was when they signed on to the record company and they wanted to make sure that they were preserving their intellectual property. Their intellectual property being their music.

2:50:32Etienne FontanAnd Dave Matthews...

2:50:36Mark ScaldoneYeah, while Dave Matthews was trying to take the same road that the Grateful Dead did, which is saying, look, we'll let you tape, but we'll only allow that for non-commercial purposes so you can trade among your friends. While that's how it started, it didn't take till one scoundrel gets involved in that taping loop to say, hey, I could burn this to CDs and I could sell the CDs at my local record store.

2:50:58Mark ScaldoneIt was the local record stores that then were clamped down on because they were the ones that actually had the bootleg copies. That led to that. I don't think there was ever any ill intent for the people who came with their mics to the shows and were the artisan craft tapers looking to capture a live performance and share it with their friends.

2:51:23BubblemanI think there's like one out of going and making the majority of his songs really radio friendly and I think his taper scene was diminished greatly out of the 90s when you know it was just a different group going to see those shows and you know for the Grateful Dead they don't they weren't making songs for the radio so if you wanted to catch them you better go Thank you for joining us.

2:52:10Mark ScaldoneBy the Prince Police, they tried to take it down, but yeah, I don't know how that ever got settled, but you may not see a fish cover of Purple Rain on YouTube now because the Prince Police had it taken down. Again, trying to protect their intellectual property.

2:52:27SpeakerWell, Prince wasn't so crazy at it so that he tried to take everybody down. But now that he's dead, the people who knocked him off want to squeeze every last penny they can out of his legacy. And yeah, that's human behavior. I mean, that's actually herd behavior, but...

2:52:48Mark ScaldoneYeah. It's amazing how history repeats itself when you look at Michael Jackson and Prince. I mean, here's two superstars that have more money than you could shake a stick at, and they have some fucking crooked-ass doctor feed them pharmaceuticals. This guy had drugs on him when he died. When he died, he actually had shit on him. He couldn't Thank you for watching.

2:53:37Mark ScaldoneAnd cannabis would have saved their lives.

2:53:41SpeakerBut now they're selling their legacy. You know, there's a lot of strange things going on on earth like that, like Facebook, you know, that guy uses all your information to sell to advertisers and people to ensure his own privacy and being able to make his world tiny and private. And yet, so many people buy into that bullshit. I mean, I just cannot understand. I guess I come from an earlier time when Thank you for joining us.

2:54:30SpeakerGo that way. But nowadays, it's like, truth? Hey, we can spin that. And they turn it into something else entirely. And unfortunately, that's gone on and on and on until nowadays it's getting harder and harder to recognize the truth, especially when it comes out of companies and corporations and people who have something to gain by telling it to you in the manner which they did.

2:54:57Mark ScaldoneYeah.

2:55:00Mark ScaldoneWell, it's, again, there's no better time to present or whatever I said earlier in the show that sounded good. And it's a good time for a bong rip.

2:55:14Etienne FontanBong rip.

2:55:14Mark ScaldoneThe future starts tomorrow. You know, social media is pretty widely used throughout the cannabis industry. I mean, Instagram was shutting people's accounts down. Are they still doing that? I think so.

2:55:30Etienne FontanYes, Todd lost his. Todd had got XXX. He lost his and it never got back. He tried for it, but he's now grown medicine. Regardless, yeah, they're still doing it. Yeah, even glass.

2:55:45Mark ScaldoneYeah, so again, another, I was just going to say just another ramification of prohibition that we want to see go away.

2:55:53SpeakerMy teacher used to say, if you want to be immortal, you have to live in the now. If he said, if you live thinking about the future, that you'll age. And if you live always thinking about the past, you'll age. But if you can bring yourself to the present, in the ever present now, you'll be immortal. And so I took faith in those words when I heard him say that because it made a lot of sense and it tickled my brain in a spot that needed tickling.

2:56:24SpeakerSo I don't know. It's a bell. If it rings yours, there it is. Thanks.

2:56:31DrBut you can also look at that in terms of when you're in the present moment and your mind is in the now, usually you're calm, right? And when you're thinking of the past or thinking of the future, you're worrying or anxious or like, so it's like you can even bring that back to just like a physiological response back to stress and calm also that resonates with a lot of people.

2:56:55SpeakerExactly, Natasha. You can connect it to expectations is what you're really working at. And when you have expectations, it's because you're not being in the present. And when those expectations don't come true, and you somehow deep down inside knew they weren't going to anyway, and that's what the stress is. Here you are trying to BS yourself. Thank you for joining us.

2:57:46SpeakerYou know, once you see the chain of events, how that occurs, you can try to be less involved in that kind of thinking, that pattern, because it will affect your health. I had such an interesting wrestle with this whole concept the other day. I was trying to make a piece of glass, and I knew, for whatever reason, I knew, like, from a really place of truth that the piece wasn't going to work out.

2:58:16SpeakerAnd, but I wanted to make a piece and I knew that the only way for me to go forward would be to go through the motions of making this piece. And, you know, and normally it's just a very simple thing where you manifest making a piece of glass and the thing comes out and it's governed by all this physical stuff. But if you, if you spin off into these tangents that we're talking about, it can become a real like indicator of like a barometer almost of what the, what your thoughts are doing.

2:58:47SpeakerAnd it was just a really interesting experience as I like had all these thoughts that you just laid out while I was trying to make this piece that I knew was going to break. But I also knew that if I had a negative attitude about it, that it would definitely break, but for a different reason. And it was just kind of a wild psychedelic Monday, I guess, without the psychedelics, just thinking.

2:59:11SpeakerWell, you know, psychedelics is nothing more than our mind being stimulated by something to come to its natural state, which is awareness and knowledge of everything and all. We refuse to pay attention to that because the corporate and the people that run schools and businesses feed us another line entirely of what everything is all about. But really, if we were all of one mind, psychedelic would probably be the condition that we would all be in Well, yeah, I mean, it's really like something to aspire to, to be able to like operate with such clarity and insight at all moments in time would be awesome.

2:59:51SpeakerWell, we are that way. It's just that not all of us pay attention all of the time. It's, you know, it's, it's, It's a situation of mankind. It's a situation you're born in. And it's what you've chosen to learn by taking this dense level incarnation. And so can you judge it or say it's good, bad, or otherwise? I don't know. Hard subject to know or understand or give any kind of definitive judgment.

3:00:22SpeakerOtherwise, the only thing I know is to not create harm and try to do as much good as possible. Right. I mean, I think the real, you know, the problem before us is to undo the lie that there's a scarcity. You know, we live on a planet that despite its density, if you throw some seeds on the ground, food will just erupt from the ground. It's not difficult to have an abundance here.

3:00:48SpeakerNo, it's not. The wealthy know that, and so they create the artificial idea in our minds and hearts that there is no abundance. And that companies like Monsanto, we need to poison everything and everybody in order to make these crops grow so that everybody can be fed. What a load of horse hockey. It's been proved many times that organic farming is the equal, if not the better, as far as the health of the plants go.

3:01:15SpeakerAnd I mean, let's face it, where they spread the Monsanto poisons around, the plants grow bigger, but the weeds by the side of the crops where they're growing are growing ever more Strong and ever tougher. And I don't know if someday we can exploit some of those weeds that have grown into super weeds in some way. Otherwise, it's going to be a real problem. Well, they're not even growing more food if you measure it by nutrients.

3:01:46SpeakerSo much less nutrients in that food that it's like not the same level of sustenance either way. Well, there are massive organic farms. There are not so many in this country, but elsewhere there are giant farms that deal only with manure and so forth. You've got India, a country that's feeding how many billions of people? Monsanto came there and started buying and selling seeds and spreading the poison around and tens of thousands of farmers died from diseases associated with it, cancers, and are committed suicide because they couldn't afford to buy the new seeds for next year because Monsanto removes all the profit out of it.

3:02:32SpeakerIt's like these guys who sell these electric water heaters that are instant water heaters you put on your wall. It's about a foot by a foot. Thank you for watching.

3:02:56SpeakerWell, yeah, because people are engineering for the purpose of profit. There's no purpose in engineering towards profit, so you're wasting all of that thought.

3:03:05Mark ScaldoneWell, but wait a second. Here's where science is evolving, and we could turn it back to Natasha here because the site that glyphosate, which is what Roundup is, Axon, is an enzyme in the shikimate acid pathway called ESPS synthase. And when they first introduced this, they didn't think that this was going to have any mammalian toxicity at all. But now, science has now informed us that no, there's important bacteria that live in our gut.

3:03:37Mark ScaldoneI do believe that ESPS synthase is certainly an important enzyme. And Natasha, does this resonate well with you? Do you know much about this?

3:03:48DrA little bit. And another interesting thing that glyphosate also can do through this is it can interfere. This is how it works, actually. It interferes with the cytochrome P450 enzymes. That's how it kills insects and, well, other things that are... Sorry, what is it killing again? Is it insects? Dr.

3:04:09Mark ScaldoneIt's a herbicide, and what it does is it keeps these, the shikimate acid pathway, I think, is involved in tyrosine biosynthesis, so they can't make essential amino acids. I think it's branched chain and aromatic amino acids the substrate can't make anymore, so it dies, yes.

3:04:29DrBut the aspect of it that I know how it interferes is actually through bacteria. So it interferes potentially with bacteria in our gut. And also our potential CYP450 enzymes. So these enzymes are important for detoxification in our liver and breaking down drugs and such. And so they're showing in preliminary experiments, again, test tubes, animals, those types of things, And plants that it can interfere with these pathways.

3:04:57DrSo we don't actually know what impact that's having on us. So very concerning. And it's awkward because my father is a farmer. So I grew up on a farm. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:05:32DrWhat's going on? But it's also like once you're in this way of farming, it's not so easy as just saying, okay, I'm going to grow organic now. And so I have sympathy for the farmers who are also doing this way of agriculture. And I mean, personally, I consume organic food. I look at the literature. I know that organic food has a better nutrient profile. It doesn't have as many pesticide residues.

3:05:57DrI know the science. I understand the science, so I avoid those things. But sometimes I understand the disconnect between what's actually happening with the people and then what we're asking the farmers to do. Like, for instance, in the farming community, Dauphin, Manitoba is where I'm from. Most of the farmers use spraying techniques and when one person decides to do an organic farming practice there's wind so it's hard if you're if the whole community doesn't shift it's hard for one farmer to even shift so it's almost like education can't just happen on an individual level it has to happen at a community level like these whole groups have to like understand how it can help because someone like my father who understands the benefits of organic farming Like believes in it.

3:06:44DrAlso, he still continues to do traditional farming because he sees himself as well. He's at the end of his career. And I mean, he's a very small farmer. This is a family farm passed on through generations. He's a by himself. So, but it's still just the way he's does farming now. So it is it's a It's a very complex topics.

3:07:06SpeakerThey all tell you lies. I remember at age 18 in Vietnam, the first time that the helicopters flew by, spruing out defoliant on the border at the Camp Coochie in Vietnam, it got on my skin. And it was 112 or 115 at 100% humidity. And so it gave this, the solvent that was in it evaporated off my skin and it cooled me down. And I Remember, two days later, because we were always wearing these flak jackets and steel pots all the time, I asked this lieutenant, what is this that they're spraying out of the helicopter because it's cooling?

3:07:48SpeakerAnd he said, it's defoliant. And I said, is it dangerous to us? And he looked me right in the eye and he said, it only affects plants. So it really isn't going to affect you. So when the helicopter would come by, we would pull off our flak jackets, pull off our t-shirts, pull off the steel pot, and go out and stand and let the mist hit you because it would drop your body core temperature down five or six degrees.

3:08:11SpeakerAnd at that temperature, the temperatures that were talking about all the time, it was a big cooling effect. And we did that, you know, all the while that we were there because nobody told us different. And now all these years later, they tell me that I have 245 and a few other things in my fat and my body that's not ever going to come out and they treat me for it and they mark you down as Agent Orange.

3:08:39SpeakerAnd I've done a lot of studying about it and It's sad because there was a lot of pointers way back then that it was extremely dangerous, but the way they had it used was just a bunch of guys load drums in the helicopters or on planes and they fly around and spray it on everything and everybody. And that was all the care that was ever taken with it.

3:09:04SpeakerAnd I'm a result. I think Agent Orange probably, in my case anyway, turned out to be a preservative.

3:09:14DrI want to bring it back to the glyphosate though. Sorry, I just want to bring it back to the glyphosate for a sec. So and back to Paul's mushroom talk last night. So that was part of what he was, was his concern. So we know we have a bee issue, right? There's the bees are dying, they're doing all these weird things. And so part of what Paul was talking about are through his talk, Research and networks, they found that bees are actually become deficient in this compound called P-coumaric acid.

3:09:44DrAnd this compound It upregulates genes that encode for our cytokine P450 enzyme. So that's what I was talking about that glyphosate can potentially suppress. And these enzymes, I know them more from the perspective of vitamin D metabolism. But I mean, there's multiple of them. They do all these things. But one of the main things they do is break down drugs, break down, they detox, they break down things.

3:10:08DrAnd so bees, they need these enzymes also. And so bees are having issues with this enzyme. And so part of what this mushroom compound that he found is that it can basically upregulate and get these P450 enzymes working again. And so that's just an interesting thing. And I also wanted to say, Marcus, have you checked out the dietary supplement that was given to us yesterday by Paul Stamets at his talk?

3:10:37DrI did indeed. So you guys check this out. It's really, really cool. I'll show it. Can you see it? You can purchase this.

3:10:48DrIt is awesome for immune support. So it tastes actually good too. It's pleasantly sweet.

3:10:54SpeakerIs that the reishi mushroom tea?

3:10:57DrOh my goodness, it has so many things. And it's not teas. What he's done is he's actually taken the mycelium of the mushroom. So most supplements are taking the mushroom like the head of the mushroom, the fruit body. Yes, exactly. And so this contains the mycelium, which is basically, according to Paul, the immune system of the mushroom. So you're getting the best immune activating compounds. I'll just read some of the mushrooms in here.

3:11:21DrSo there is the agaricon mushroom. The Mitake Mushroom, Chaga, Reishi, Cordyceps, Zhu Ling, I haven't heard of that one before, Birch Polymore, Royal Sun Blazay, you know, oh geez, I don't know how to say that one. Mizimma, Splitgill, Poly4, Turkey Tails. I also didn't know about Turkey Tails for breast cancer.

3:11:47BubblemanThat was an amazing story that he told.

3:11:49DrOh my goodness. Look up more info. Anyone who wants more info about breast cancer or going through that, look up Turkey Tail Mushrooms. There's some interesting and exciting things going on. And there's also a study that it can be used in conjunction with With traditional breast cancer therapies, I'm not sure exactly which ones he was using it, like certain, or sorry, not traditional, but like actual chemotherapy.

3:12:08DrIt could be used as a complementary therapy safely, which is really interesting. So look that up.

3:12:16SpeakerWhat's the name of that box you're reading off again?

3:12:19DrThis is... There you go, I can see it.

3:12:29DrSo it says, I think if you want to Google it, if you look up Paul Stamets, S-T-A-M-E-T-S, Comprehensive Immune Support, and, oh, it's called My Community.

3:12:45BubblemanIf you punch in Host Defense, Paul Stamets, you'll see the link.

3:12:51DrSo it contains shiitake, Oregon Ganoderma, Artis Conk, Amadou, And like each of these mushrooms is put in here for a reason. This is a well thought out supplement. I just got it last night and I've just, the brief reading I've been doing about it, very impressed. It's organic. It's like water. It contains alcohol, 30 to 40%, and then all the mushroom. And then it contains, Mycelated brown rice, which is what's giving it a nice sweetness.

3:13:24DrSo it actually, despite having alcohol, I mean, I took a nice dose last night just to try it out and was surprised at how sweet it tasted. So check it out. Save the world of mushrooms. Save your immune system. And this is just like a nice take to just keep your immune system healthy and healthy. It's a really nice supplement. I'm impressed. I'm not normally that impressed by a supplement.

3:13:50DrNormally, I'm kind of like, yeah, whatever, another nutritional supplement, but well done, Paul.

3:13:56SpeakerYeah, it's natural. He's telling you the, actually, yeah, the nerve system and the immune system of the fungi because mycelium exists and when it perceives that things are going badly or the seasons change, it puts the fruiting bodies up as a method of preserving and spreading itself.

3:14:17SpeakerMycelium is where the chemistry is happening.

3:14:22BubblemanAm I muted right now?

3:14:25SpeakerNo.

3:14:26BubblemanHe just mentioned yesterday that the mycelium had a lot more, it was richer in the components that he was looking for than the fruiting mushroom itself.

3:14:36Mark ScaldoneWell, it's where the chemistry is happening. It's basically where the fungi is feeding, and so there's all types of proteases and enzymes and iron and all kinds of chemistry that's happening right at that Thank you so much for joining us.

3:15:11SpeakerPart of the mycelium. And it's a decidedly different high than eating the fruiting bodies. If you allow that same stuff to go to fruit, you get one kind of high. And if you eat the phosphorus stones that form in it, it's a completely different trip. And it's, in my book, less toxic than eating the fruit above the ground.

3:15:38SpeakerCrickets. I've never heard of that before. You didn't hear that before? Have you ever had philosopher's stones? No, not at all. See, there's this Mexicana and another one, Atlantean, that produce big sclerota when you're growing it as a mycelium. And you can see these things push up against the bag or against the door. And anyway, you empty it out, and then you'll get some sclerota that will be as big as the palm of your hand.

3:16:09SpeakerAnd those things are loaded with psilocybin and none of the other toxins that appear in the mushroom that fruits above ground for those.

3:16:21SpeakerLike the truffles of the psychedelic world. Yeah, it's a truffle. Yeah, you can call it a truffle. It's not really a truffle, but. Huh.

3:16:31DrI also want to point out like with fungi so the way we're thinking as like with gut bacteria everybody's talking about your gut bacteria and how your gut bacteria play a role in all like our mood and all these different things our immune response and they protect us and they can make nutrients for us and from a gut perspective they do all these things they're basically Thank you for joining us.

3:17:14DrI still have to read the whole paper, but it was annoying me again when they're saying like, you know, breaking a disease, a complicated disease down to like, oh, we found the cure, but you know, it's an aspect of the disease. This is really exciting. But the fungal biome, now that's going to be completely this whole area that's going to revolutionize medicine, just like the way the bacteria and is revolutionary, like changing the way we're thinking of all these things.

3:17:40DrLike another thing, I don't know if you guys know very much about fecal transplants in patients.

3:17:46SpeakerMy sister is researching that right now. I was waiting for a chance to interject that. The fecal transplanting thing is amazing.

3:17:53DrYes, it's amazing.

3:17:54SpeakerExactly what it sounds like, and they're getting crazy results. She keeps calling me. She's like, we're treating this, we're treating that, and they're just People are just writing into them that are doing the research like, have you tried this or that? And there's just a lot. It's a big buzz right now, correct?

3:18:09DrIt's fascinating. And so Crohn's and colitis is a newer area where they're looking at it. So what this is, is literally like poop supplements. You're taking like bacteria isolated from a healthy stool donor. And I mean, seriously, I was at a talk with gastroenterologists and I mean, this is, Just like the way these talks go where we're in a fancy hotel eating dinner and the topic of conversation is how to do a poo transplant like basically how to do it on the street and we're talking like okay you take a Snickers bar you want to poop the size of a Snickers bar and maybe buy a new blender because you probably want this blender just for this And you need this much saline solution and you put it on this and you pulverize it.

3:18:50DrAll right, now you got your poo smoothie. So now what we're going to do is we're going to get the bag and you're going to fill this bag with the poo smoothie. And now here's how to insert it into your rectum. And we're all like eating our steak and sound like, oh yeah, that's interesting. Interesting. It's just like, it's intense. And so patients are already doing this.

3:19:06DrSo now it's getting a little more refined. And what they're doing is they're taking... Stool samples and basically finding like multiple strains, like 10 strains, and then putting it into a pill form. So it's a little more appetizing to consume. Instead of a poo smoothie, you get a pill. But anyway, they don't find as good of results though, unfortunately. So now we're still trying to refine and figure out what the perfect blend is.

3:19:32DrAnd the best results so far are with an infection called Clostridium difficile, C. diff. So this infection is killing a lot of people. So what happens is when you go into a hospital for an infection or something, they put you on potentially a Thank you so much for joining us.

3:19:59DrSpores. And so everybody has a few of them kind of floating around in their gut. They don't really do anything because they're in spore form. What happens now when you get a big dose of antibiotics, it kills all your competing organizms. And all of a sudden these spores are like, hey, we got all this space. Let's grow and see what's going on. And so they start to grow.

3:20:16DrAnd so these people who continue to be on these antibiotics, these bacteria, C. difficile, they're very, very resistant. So this is a big issue. You'll see, if you just look up C. difficile in hospitals, you'll see like horror stories of just patients dying and they don't know what to do. And so that's why they got so desperate that they were basically willing to eat shit to see If this would help.

3:20:41DrAnd so it's helping. It's saving people's lives. Like it's amazing. These people who have been on cycles and antibiotics and like chronic diarrhea. So what happens with a C. diff infection is you have chronic diarrhea, chronic diarrhea, and then you eventually start developing something called pseudomembranous colitis where it's like, Thank you so much for joining us.

3:21:27DrAnd it is very exciting. It's very exciting. And so, sorry, go ahead.

3:21:32SpeakerThere's a guy in Australia who has been taking fecal implants from Bushman that he got from these guys because he figured, you know, these guys are very well balanced. And he was having problems anyway. He was also a colitis patient. It's probably how he ended up. Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:22:19DrSo look into it. But I do not recommend trying this at home because there's a lot of risk. Even if you have a healthy friend donor, there's a lot of risks involved. There could be infections they have. So if you're going to do it, it's best to go through a health professional, get your stool properly screened. There is a whole procedure. Be careful. This is not a do-it-yourselfer technique.

3:22:45DrGet help.

3:22:46SpeakerYep. I have known at least four or five people over the years who used Kalema boards and they used them constantly all the time and all of them died from kidney failure.

3:22:59DrWhat's a Kalema board?

3:23:01SpeakerA Kalema board is a thing that you put over the toilet and you got a five gallon bucket of water above you and you put it in your rectum. And you let it fill you up until you naturally evacuate and it's laid on a toilet. It's just the idea of constantly flushing yourself. I say it's popular these days, but I noticed that from then till now, all those people who were skewing that to me way back when, when I didn't take it up, I've all passed on from kidney failure.

3:23:35DrYeah, I'm not, I see people, like, there's the, whatever, the detox clinic and stuff where they want to clean out your colon with water and stuff, like, I don't necessarily, like, I don't recommend that. I mean, maybe there are cases where that would be useful, but, like you're saying, it can be dangerous and, like, the colon is a sensitive area, like, shoving water and stuff up there, like, it can cause damage, it can disrupt your natural gut bacteria, it's better to take things, In this way, let it work itself out.

3:24:03DrIt's slower, probably safer, and that's the thing with your gut bacteria. It's a whole, like, think of it as a mini planet, and think of all the bacteria as little humans, and there's little tribes, and they all do different things, and they interact, and they work together. So it's like, every time you're eating, every time you're doing these things, like, think of your feeding your little planet, like your little planet you, and it's like, do I want healthy bacteria growing, or do I want, like, angry gut bacteria that are going to, like, Yeah, you don't want to feed...

3:24:41SpeakerYou don't want to feed them McDonald's.

3:24:44DrBecause like people don't realize what these bacteria are doing for them. Like they're making you vitamins. They're making you minerals. Like vitamin B12, your gut bacteria makes that for you. All these other B vitamins. So I know what they do mostly and how they can interact with vitamin D in the gut. But like they boost your immune system. So they out-compete other bacteria. So they're basically like a little army where they're like Thank you for watching.

3:25:21DrKombucha. It's life changing. It's amazing. When I have gut issues, I can drink kombucha and like the next day I feel better. That was my first experience with it. And I was like, this is powerful stuff. Like I suffer from gut issues. It is a fermented beverage. So it's black tea with sugar. It's fermented. It's a culture. It's a symbiotic culture. It's called, what do they call it?

3:25:44SpeakerBaked.

3:25:44DrThe SCOBY, a SCOBY. And so it's a blend of beneficial bacteria and fungi. It's very complex. People, there's different like cultures. You can buy kombuchas in the grocery store, but you can make your own and you culture it. And it's basically kind of like an alcohol culture. Like the bacteria feed on the sugar, they start making bubbles. You can make it on, like some kombucha companies have issues because their alcohol content is too high and they get like recalled from the shelf.

3:26:11DrAnd anyway, and then it becomes like a mild like apple cider vinegar kind of flavor when it's ready to go. It's fuzzy. It's delicious. It's a great replacement if you're craving like beer or that like bubbly kind of feeling.

3:26:25Etienne FontanIt is not delicious. Come the fuck on. I mean, it...

3:26:29DrYou got to pick your flavor. You got to pick your flavor and you got to pick your company. There are some absolutely disgusting ones out there. I agree. But there are some delicious ones. So if you get a bad one, try for some better ones.

3:26:40Etienne FontanWhat company or what do you recommend?

3:26:43DrWhat do I like? GTs, asking my husband Dave what I like. GTs makes a really nice ginger and their purple grape one I think are delicious. I can't, okay, so people get, I get weirded out because you see the culture. Now I try to like say, hello, culture friend. You see it at the bottom. Thank you for watching.

3:27:21DrWhat I do is I just let it sit for a bit until it all settles and then I drink it. So these are powerful things. Don't even drink a full one your first time drinking one because for some people it can like just go right through you. So drink a little bit, see how your body handles it, but you will feel amazing, amazing hangover cure, amazing just like...

3:27:41DrVitality booster. When I'm feeling really anxious and grumpy, I'll be like, oh, I haven't had a kombucha in a while. Because what it's doing is it's setting up good bacteria in your gut. But you have to continually feed this good bacteria. And this kombucha culture not only has the good bacteria, it also has some of the food sources. So when you're combining, it's just this rich blend of all this goodness.

3:28:00DrSo even if you hate it, try just taking even little micro doses of it. I find it works even better than the probiotic pills. Thanks. Highly recommend.

3:28:12SpeakerYou know, probiotic pills is like a little gut bomb though, isn't it? You know, when you're drinking a kombucha, you're getting the whole thing in a liquid form and your body's able to accept that a lot better than those little probiotic pills, which are little gut bombs. They explode down.

3:28:31DrYeah, and there's other good bacteria ways. Like you can eat kimchi. So that is a Korean deliciousness where it's fermented cabbage with chili peppers and garlic. It's delicious. I love it. And there's also like sauerkraut. And I mean, there's all these ways to get good bacteria in your gut. So even like bringing it back to, I can't remember who was talking about the triclosan.

3:28:55DrWe're bombarded with all these antimicrobials. Even if you're trying to avoid all these things, we're just bombarded with things that are trying to kill bacteria because we're all obsessed with cleanliness. Yes, cleanliness is good, but over cleanliness is scary because you're killing all your good bacteria. You got to basically prevent that from happening. You can't just avoid everything, so feed your good bacteria. One way to get those little bacteria bombs working better is The good bacteria, they need food.

3:29:24DrSo prebiotic fibers, if you take that together with the probiotics, so with the fibers, with the bacteria, it basically gives the bacteria, it's like think of like you're sending your little settlers onto Mars. Are you just going to send all the people? What are they going to eat? So you send them a little food packet if that's what the prebiotic fibers are. So that's things like Inulin and fructooligosaccharides, and those are found naturally in like bananas and onions, but you can also get those in pill form.

3:29:55DrI... So just going very, very slow if you're getting them concentrated. If you have an inulin supplement, it can make your gut go crazy. It makes my gut go crazy because it's basically like even if you have bad bacteria in your gut, you're just like, here's some food for everyone. And everyone freaks out and overeats and the byproduct is lots and lots of gas. So you'll get very, very bloated.

3:30:15DrSo very small amounts. But when you take these little foods with the bacteria together, You get better results. Even most of the clinical trials, when you go back and break them up, the studies that usually find the best results are the ones that use a probiotic with a prebiotic. So prebiotic fiber, those are like the food source for the bacteria. So honey, honey. One more thing. Honey, bringing it back to Paul again.

3:30:40DrHoney, another thing with the colony collapse. So honey is a prebiotic fiber. And so he was talking about how bee farmers are feeding their honey and there's all these issues with colony collapse. But a big thing is We're taking away their food source. So bees eat honey, which is this rich nutrient source. It's a prebiotic effect. It helps the bees create healthy bacteria also. And it helps them defend against... And so now we're taking away the honey and what are we giving them?

3:31:10DrWe're giving them corn syrup as their food source. And so I don't know if there's something we can do where we can maybe... Like give them more honey with less corn syrup or figure out a better ratio because then the bees will have a better diet. The bees will have a better immune system. The bees will survive better. Plug for prebiotic fibers also in honey.

3:31:33SpeakerSo can I ask you a question? To the best of your knowledge, besides vitamin D, which I know you're a fan of, what other vitamins do we really need to take as a supplement? I mean really, what is our body not making?

3:31:48DrYeah and that's very individual but in general one thing that's interesting for folks living in Vancouver is our water has really low amounts of magnesium for some reason and a lot of people are deficient in magnesium so that's when I would suggest taking just even general just like if you're feeling like if you're getting muscle cramps if you're feeling achy a lot of people aren't getting enough magnesium one of the best sources of magnesium is green leafy vegetables so Thank you for joining us.

3:32:35DrI take whenever I'm finding my legs are getting crampy or something. So that's a good one to take. Vitamin D is very important because most people are deficient or have low levels. And we can make it from the sun, but we can actually make it from the sun six months of the year. So the year in some places, like in Vancouver, I think only a few months of the year.

3:32:56DrAnd that's because as the sun shifts, Thank you so much for joining us.

3:33:20DrThank you so much for joining us.

3:33:41DrAnd so I suggest highly taking some form of vitamin D, both of them even. But again, vitamin D, what my research was showing from my PhD is that very high levels of vitamin D can actually be a little dangerous. So you want to be very careful because it's actually a hormone. Like most people don't realize vitamin D Steps to something called calcitriol, which is a hormone. It's very similar to something like a steroid hormone.

3:34:07DrIt controls our immune response. So why I was studying it is a lot of people with gut disorders, they... And so that's part of the rationale behind why they have such an activated immune response. And so when they take some vitamin D, it can help suppress those immune pathways similar to something like steroids. But what my research was showing is at very, very high levels, and I'm talking like hormone levels, like you wouldn't get this naturally from taking a VD3 supplement or through eating mushrooms or anything.

3:34:38DrThis would be like a hormone injection that you would go to your doctor to get. These very high levels, though, they were so effective at suppressing the immune system and a specific type of immune response called TH17 immune cells, which are really exciting because they play a role in all kinds of autoimmune disorders like multiple sclerosis. Diabetes, psoriasis, that's kind of what the research is getting really excited about these types of T cells.

3:35:03DrSo vitamin D can suppress these types of T cells, but my research was showing that it was suppressing them so effectively that it was almost a risk for becoming more susceptible to an infection. So there's always a balance with these things. So you want to take enough vitamin D, but not too much. I can put more stuff in the comments about dosing if anyone's more interested. So vitamin D is a good one.

3:35:26DrAnd yeah, get your blood levels tested. If you're a patient and you're really concerned about your vitamin D, talk to your doctor, get your blood levels tested because there's a narrow range of effective dose. And so most of the vitamin D recommendations are more directed towards bone safety. So we know that vitamin D can prevent rickets. But what most people don't know is vitamin D is also very important for immune response.

3:35:46DrAnd so you need a bit higher dose blood levels to get into this healthy range for immune response. Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:36:21DrI'm going to take all my supplements every day. You can do that maybe with something vitamin C, like whatever, go crazy with vitamin C. It's a water soluble compound. When I'm feeling sick, I'll just like munch on vitamin C. But all of the other supplements, be very, very careful. Like for instance, folic acid, a type of B vitamin, amazing for helping cell proliferation. And so some patients think, oh, I should take folic acid because it'll help my gut regrow.

3:36:46DrThank you so much for joining us.

3:37:14DrBe careful, find a health provider to talk to, like these things.

3:37:18SpeakerSo you don't hold with multivitamins, I'm sure.

3:37:24DrI take a multivitamin. I do. I don't necessarily take it every day. I can put out my regimen of the supplements I take if you guys are interested, just what I personally take. For vitamin D, I take about 5,000 international units of vitamin D3 per day. In the summer, if I'm getting some sunlight, I might cut that dose off to lower.

3:37:45Mark ScaldoneDo you take an iron supplement?

3:37:48DrNo, do not take iron supplements. Oh my goodness. Iron, oh, I could do like seriously four hours just talking about iron and the complexities of that nutrient and the dangers. So many people are iron deficient. Don't get me wrong. Many people have iron deficiency problems. This is a big concern. But there's a lot of problems with iron deficiency. And if you have a problem with iron, yes, you may need to take a supplement, but do so with care because what iron does is it is a bacteria pathogen's favorite food.

3:38:19DrThank you for watching.

3:38:34DrWhen they find iron, that's like us finding a buffalo or finding like, that's like we can survive now, we can stay. So when you're taking iron supplements and you happen to eat something that could have an infectious thing, you could actually be like, yeah, and like spearheading that. Like what's interesting is in the gut when there's, when I talk about these things, I'll have to put together more of my ideas to give you more of an overview of this.

3:38:58DrWith the iron, just be careful, and if you do need iron, talk to your doctor, especially with Crohn's and Colitis, about getting an iron, I can't remember what form it is, but injectable iron. It's much safer because then it doesn't go through the gut root and it doesn't aggravate potential pathogens. And there's lots of literature supporting this, and most gastroenterologists know this, but be careful with taking iron supplements.

3:39:22DrThere's other ways to get iron if you need it. And if you aren't absorbing the iron from something like meat, if you're a vegetarian, there's ways to boost iron. Like for instance, you can put lemon juice with your spinach. That will help boost plant sources of iron. But there's different kinds of iron. There's heme iron from meat and then there's non-heme iron, which is more from plants.

3:39:39DrWe absorb heme iron better. So that's why... But Tony, I need to iron my clothes too. That's a joke going on right now. Anyway, iron with the heme iron from meat. That's the one that is the angry iron and can feed pathogens. So if you have an infection, you can reintroduce red meat after your infection if you love it. But if you're feeling sick, please avoid red meat.

3:40:05DrIt is the best source of heme iron. It's great if you're healthy, but if you're sick, that will feed the bad bacteria. And I'll end it there and I'll, whatever, tell you guys more about that at a later point. But be careful with the iron.

3:40:20BubblemanAwesome. Well, that was a really nice download there for sure, Natasha. Thank you for that. The room was loving it.

3:40:26Mark ScaldoneI'm glad I asked about iron. Oh my goodness. I didn't realize it was that bad.

3:40:32DrIt's crazy. There's studies and we're like good intentions. People going over to Africa and they're like, oh, the kids are iron deficient. It's like, yes, they're iron deficient because they are severely infected with pathogens. So what happens is your body does something where it holds onto its iron all along your gut. There's this compound called hepcidin. It's released from your liver during infection, and it tells your cells...

3:40:56DrTo hold onto that iron, hold, it's like hiding it. So then your bacteria doesn't, can't find it. So in a lot of these kids, they have so many infections and so good intention doctors go over, they measure them, oh my God, they're all iron deficient. We need to get these kids on iron supplements, iron cookies, they're developing like, Thank you so much for joining us.

3:41:39DrWeird studies out there where I'm like, why is nobody paying more attention to this? Like stop giving sick kids iron. You have to look at all these other nutrients. Iron deficiency is so complex. It might be vitamin B12. It might be masked. As another B vitamin. So they need to do a full profile, then assess where the actual nutrient deficiency is before they supplement. So these nutrient supplements, like these are so complex and that's why you always get these like pieces coming out in the press where people are like, oh, vitamins are bad and they're dangerous.

3:42:08DrIt's like sometimes in some cases, like don't take vitamin E if you have lung cancer, that will make your lung cancer get worse. But if you don't have lung cancer, vitamin E is an amazing antioxidant. So it depends on what type of illness you have, where you are in your state of health. That's why it's very important to work with a health professional or get really geeky and do a lot of research.

3:42:33DrYes, you can learn a lot, but keep an open mind and don't just believe the first piece of literature that you read. You need to be thorough. This is complex. I spent seven years just studying vitamin D. Vitamin D in the gut. I don't even feel comfortable talking about vitamin D in something like another body tissue because it's completely different. These are complex.

3:42:53SpeakerYou take such a massive dose. You take 5,000 international units a day. And recently my doc assigned me 1,000 international units a day.

3:43:04DrThat's slow. They're doing studies. They're doing studies with like 50,000 to 500,000. I mean, those are higher doses. Those are more therapeutic doses. But 1,000, that's like a minimum dose. That's fine. But if you are still feeling like your inflammation is maybe not the best or like you can up that dose a little bit more, like talk to your doctor just to be safe. But... A thousand's a pretty conservative dose.

3:43:30DrLike the upper limit right now is considered 10,000 international units and they've done long doses of that. Like for instance, they've shown that spending 20 minutes in the sun at the peak time of summer when you can make the best amount of vitamin D, your skin, the dose where your body basically, like your body's amazing. It'll make vitamin D and then it will naturally start breaking it down if you make too much.

3:43:52DrSo the upper dose that what your body kind of starts breaking it down is about 10,000 internationally equivalent to like a 10,000 internationally in a dose. So that's kind of how they got some of those guidelines to approximate estimates, but they go way higher in dosing and your body is very good at regulating like the vitamin D3 form. That form you could take all day, but when your body starts breaking it down into its hormone, calcitriol, that's the hormone that can do all the crazy things like suppress immune responses and do Other things like affect your gut barrier, affect your gut population.

3:44:23DrLike vitamin D is so crazy intense of all the things it can do. Like get some sunlight. Get some sun. Get your vitamin D levels checked. It can change your life. Like there's people who dedicate their whole life. Like we saw Paul the Mushroom Guy last night. There's people who dedicate their whole life just to talking about the benefits of vitamin D because it's that important. It's very important.

3:44:44SpeakerWell, I'm going to up my dose if that's the case because I wondered if it wasn't a low dose and I'm glad you think it is. I'm going to definitely have a talk with him or her. It's hard to tell who my...

3:44:58DrI'll even send you info about UVB lamps. So this is where I'm very interested in it because if your gut isn't functioning properly with someone like Crohn's and Colitis, you're taking supplements, it's a complex nutrient. It needs to break down in your liver. It needs to go then go to your kidneys and then it circulates through your blood. So if those tissues aren't working properly, Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:45:40DrThank you so much for joining us.

3:45:59DrAnd you can make enough vitamin D without getting a sunburn, without getting a risk. There is a risk of using this inappropriately because you're like, oh, I'm not feeling anything. I'm going to keep going. It's like, no, no, no, that's bad. That could increase your risk of cancer. It's a hormone. You need to be very diligent in your dosing of the UVB lamp. But Thank you so much.

3:46:33DrThey can control their psoriasis by, and what happens is the vitamin D, it can control in the hormone form, it can control again that T cell I was talking about, Th17 T cells, it can suppress those angry T cells, and this has a cascading effect that suppresses the overall immune response. And so we can look at what's happening in patients with psoriasis because they have a similar immune profile to patients with Crohn's and colitis.

3:46:58DrWe can then take some of that info and apply it to these patients. And that's what people in our lab are starting to look at. And it's really, really cool. It's really exciting. And there's also some cool work where they show that if you have a bath in magnesium salts, Before you do the UBB therapy, you get even better results. And this is bringing it back to those old therapies of like going in the beaches, like the salty beaches, and then getting your sunlight and the fresh air and people having all these miraculous cures of their inflammatory conditions.

3:47:26DrAnd it's so cool that we can bring it back to these like pathways and be like, this is what's actually happening. And then bring it back to these natural therapies where it's like, well, maybe being out in the sunlight and going in the ocean is better. But if you can't get that, then maybe you can do You know, magnesium, Epsom salt bath at home, and then your little UVB lamp.

3:47:46DrSo you get the next best thing. You can at least get some of those functions.

3:47:50BubblemanWell, it's all great information, and people are gobbling it up right now for certain. I'm sure they're going to be going back in time and re-listening to some of this. I know I will be myself. We don't all have the time to study as in-depth as you have been able to on this. So really, thanks for sharing, Natasha. It's great.

3:48:10TonyMuch appreciate all of it.

3:48:13BubblemanYou're definitely... Can I ask about another vitamin?

3:48:16Mark ScaldoneVitamin A? I mean, you know, vitamin A, one of the precursors to vitamin A is beta carotene, and it's really one of the major monumental scientific achievements is the so-called golden rice, which is being able to... Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back.

3:49:00Mark ScaldoneThank you so much for joining us.

3:49:23Drmultiple forms and it has a hormone form called retinoic acid and actually the hormonal form of vitamin d calcitriol and the hormonal form of vitamin a retinoic acid they're like super buds they do all these cool things together they like they even find studies where like they find you can actually lower your dose of vitamin d and lower your dose of vitamin a and take micro doses of them together and you actually get better results And so they activate through these things called nuclear receptors.

3:49:52DrAnd so these hormones actually go into the DNA and shift how the cell responds to things, which is really cool. There's not like most vitamins don't do this. Vitamin D and vitamin A do. And it's interesting because these are the fat soluble vitamins, right? So it's bringing it back to all these fats. And so I'm always interested, how are these things interacting with cannabinoids? Because absolutely they are on some level.

3:50:13DrAnd that's like, Who knows what's happening? Like sunlight. Why does like sunlight feel so good? What's happening? Is there like, is anandamide being made? You know, is it boosting up our other compounds? And so, sorry, back to the vitamin A, like it's complicated because you can also make vitamin A from plants. So like you said, it's a precursor is beta, which one is it? Sorry. Yeah, beta carotene.

3:50:36DrI want to say beta carotene. That's what I've been talking about. Yeah, and so there's precursors to vitamin A in plants. And so, like even in chili peppers, that contains some of the vitamin A-like compounds.

3:50:47Mark ScaldoneAnd lycopene is another one, I think, that's in tomatoes. Lycopene, there we go. Lycopene is the red pigment that's in tomato. Right. Go ahead.

3:50:54DrI'm sorry. Yeah. No, no, no. Thank you. Thank you. I was forgetting about lycopene. And lycopene is a perfect example of a vitamin A compound that most people know about. And so your body can turn that into other forms of vitamin A, not necessarily as effective. Another really cool thing about vitamin A is liver is like a crazy, crazy high source of vitamin A. And so there's cases of people like overeating liver and actually dying from vitamin A toxicity.

3:51:19DrSo be careful if you're eating liver. But yeah. I'm glad it tastes like shit. But yeah, if you don't, if you don't.

3:51:28BubblemanBut some people are eating.

3:51:31DrThere you go. But no, vitamin A is essential to life, and if you don't have enough, your vision doesn't work. It's essential for your immune system, all these things. So you're absolutely right. There may be cases where we do need to shift the way things are grown in order to provide people with access to this important nutrient. But I don't know if GMOs are the answer. I don't know.

3:51:53DrMaybe they are. I don't know. As a scientist, I can appreciate the technology and the geekiness of being able to Thank you so much for joining us.

3:52:23DrBut very, very important nutrient. And another one, be very careful. You can take too much vitamin A. Do not fuck around with vitamin A. Seriously. Be careful. Do not take a vitamin A supplement. Don't take a vitamin A supplement. Take beta carotene. Try to get it through food sources. Vitamin A is one of the only supplements I would say do not take. It's an intense one. It is a hormone.

3:52:47DrDon't take it. And the multivitamin is okay. But don't purposely go out and say, I need to get my vitamin A. Be careful.

3:52:56Etienne FontanIt's a powerful, powerful one.

3:52:58SpeakerWhen I was a kid, I had all of the liver that I ever want to have for the rest of my life at one meal.

3:53:08DrI don't mind liver. I don't mind it. I don't mind it. My mom is French and she would always cook us her liver and fried onion dish. And so we always had it growing up. It has a very distinct taste, but now I don't, I haven't eaten fried liver and onions in years, but liver pate, I love it. It's something about it.

3:53:28Mark ScaldoneTry replacing it with leather and see if it's the same thing. I think it's the fried onions that tasted good, not the liver.

3:53:34DrNo, it has a weird bitterness that you almost like crave. I don't know. It's a very distinct taste. I'm like thinking of it right now. I'm like, yeah, get some liver.

3:53:43SpeakerYeah, my mother used to make it all the time, but I only ate it once. And after that, when she would start to cook it, and you could, the whole house stunk up. I would leave the house and, you know, as long as possible until that order went out, because we had a big family. And everybody loved the liver, and I was happy to give up mine.

3:54:07SpeakerYou know, they did. People would ask me before I left, are you going to eat your liver? No, I'm not.

3:54:11DrIt's the perfect vitamin, though, really. Nature's perfect vitamin. If you are vitamin deficient, even if you're vegetarian, maybe take a little bit. You can even buy liver supplements. There's some companies that actually make these all-natural supplements, and they take basically liver. And well, cod liver oil is another great example. That's source of vitamin D, vitamin A.

3:54:34BubblemanThat's some nasty shit. I took that as a kid.

3:54:36DrI used to take spoonfuls of that. I developed a liking for it. I know. It's totally weird. It's disgusting.

3:54:41BubblemanHuge capsules. Huge capsules. I like the feel of it. They get stuck in my throat. And then all day long, I just have the cod liver oil burps.

3:54:51DrYeah. Fortunately, technology has evolved. So they can now make those pills that like, Thank you for watching.

3:55:15Mark ScaldoneWhich? I think some of these omega supplements are no longer quote-unquote fish oil. In fact, the fish doesn't make the oil. Isn't it the gut, the bacteria gut inside the fish that actually makes the oil, I think?

3:55:31DrNo, it's more the eating the LJ. It's like a bioaccumulative effect.

3:55:37Mark ScaldoneOkay, but bacteria is not involved in there, though?

3:55:41DrMaking the, I don't know, at that point. What are you saying about the bacteria with making the, playing a role in making the omega-3 in the fish?

3:55:52Mark ScaldoneI think so. I think there is some role that they play in that. I'll look it up and get back to you.

3:55:56DrNo, that's, I want to, yeah. But no, they definitely are, sorry, I want to know more about that. That's really interesting. But they definitely, there's a whole spectrum, like all kinds of things of supplements. And so you can get whole fish oil. You can get isolated compounds like the DHA, EPA. That is a supplement I would definitely recommend people taking for brain health. Fish oil is amazing.

3:56:16DrEven though I was eating vegan for a year, I still took my fish oil supplements. Oh, sorry, and there's also LJ Oil for you happy vegans out there. And I will, oh, okay, what do you got? Oh, this one, LJ Omega 3. Can you guys see that?

3:56:33Mark ScaldoneFrom London Drugs. Yeah, so isn't that like not derived from fish at all? It's derived from, No, no fish. This is all, yes, this is a nice vegetarian, So I may have misspoke. I was referring to essentially plants being able to make that as well. And I think bacteria can be trained to make those as well. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

3:56:53DrI get what you're saying. Right. From a manufacturing point, they can get the bacteria to just make a pump out of a bunch of these. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry. No, but that's intriguing because that made me think like in the natural process is something like that going on. I don't know. Maybe, right? But absolutely, yeah. It's a quicker, more effective way to make, they just synthesize it versus isolating it from a whole plant one.

3:57:16DrOh, and this is the other one I take. I want to show this one too.

3:57:18Mark ScaldoneThis is an awesome one.

3:57:23DrSo this has krill oil and omega-3. Krill oil is another really cool one. It's a crazy antioxidant.

3:57:31DrI'll just list all the supplements I take at the bottom, and that will be easier, and then whatever. You guys can ask me more questions about them.

3:57:38Mark ScaldoneDr. These long polyunsaturated acids that these are made out of are similar to arachidonic acid, which again is the precursor to anandamide and 3-AG, or 2-AG, right?

3:57:55Mark ScaldoneYou would imagine that, again, all of these things must play some similar role. You've said a few things that really, again, I think are right on, which is that the fat solubility of these things give them somewhat a preferred passage through membranes. That's very, very important. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:58:41SpeakerYou'd think twice about taking it and putting it in your mouth because it smells like a fish's ass.

3:58:49DrIt smells like medicine.

3:58:51SpeakerIt's really bad.

3:58:54DrBut to wrap it up too, I want to bring it back. One more thing. Get your healthy fats and then you can make your endogenous cannabinoids.

3:59:02BubblemanThere you go.

3:59:02DrYour endomide.

3:59:03Mark ScaldoneRight, right, right. Exactly.

3:59:06BubblemanRight there. Thank you guys, everyone, for showing up for Hash Church today, episode 108. We managed to squeeze off four hours thanks to Dr. Mark and Dr. Natasha laying down some great knowledge today. Always happy to have Etienne and Johnny B and D420K. Skunk Man Sam was quiet today, but he was here. Indra, always a pleasure, and I guess we'll just say thanks, everybody, for watching, and we'll see you next week.

3:59:35BubblemanPeace.