Cannabis Legalization and Activism

0:00BubblemanHello, hello, hello there everybody out in Bubble Man's world. Welcome to episode 111 of Hash Church. That's I and I and I. 111. Just going to send out the links here real quick. Got into a pretty good conversation in the chat room today. We've been chatting in there for a couple of hours I would say at least. Just going to wait for this to come through on the YouTube chat.

0:27BubblemanAlways seems to take a little bit. That way I can say at least give that a mute real quick and then I'll send out the links to our Facebook family. Boom to our email family. Boom. And last but certainly not least to Chimera, my last and only Skype invitation. So there we go. I've sent out the links. 250, 276 people in the chat room and 277 is Etienne.

1:01BubblemanWelcome, Etienne.

1:03Etienne FontanGood morning, Mr. Bubble Man. How are you today?

1:07BubblemanYou know, I'm feeling pretty good. Just was in the chat room for the last... I've been up for a couple of hours thanks to, you know, the... Daylight savings time. Daylight savings. Yeah, I just... I was all confused by it. I just can never get it right.

1:23Etienne FontanWell, and as a dad, you're dealing with multiple kids, too, that you get to say, congratulations, time has changed, and that must be fun to explain to them.

1:31BubblemanYeah, exactly. Nice, nice quick group, though, with the, with the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. We got, hi there. We got the Skunk Man, we got Indra, we got Johnny B, and Mark Scaldone, all in like... I'm from Victoria. All in a 10-second period. That's pretty sweet. Great job, team. Rocking the Cannathlete shirt from Sabo today.

1:55Etienne FontanVery nice. He's making some good gateways. I'm wearing, of course, my last week of Proposition 64 positive shirts because we're finally here. We finally arrived at that time. And next thing you know, we are, it's done. It's over with.

2:12BubblemanHas anything divided the cannabis community more than that proposition in the last like 15 or 20 years or is always anytime something?

2:21Etienne FontanIt was that way with 2015. People were that way. It's just the inevitable change is something that people are always afraid of. And yes, it has divided people and divided activists and it drew lines across the board of who supports what and why and yeah, it's very polarizing in either direction and You know, we've discussed it way back on episode, what, 86? We were discussing it, and here we are at 101, and it's still very much a high topic of discussion across the board.

2:52Etienne FontanI've had friends who have dropped me, friends who have blocked me, people who unfollow me, and whatever. I don't give a shit. Thank you for watching.

3:16Etienne FontanMy friend Todd McCormick won't have to go to jail or to court anymore because of a stupid marijuana bust that he was facing and the laws would throw that out. So yeah, I'm a little selfish on that resolve, but I'm looking at the bigger picture too and realize that even though 64 isn't perfect, it's completely modifiable and changes the discussion so we can modify it in the state of California so that we can actually Put further pressure on the federal government because I was reading this morning how the rest of the world is looking at the positivity of these initiatives in Arizona and California and Nevada and saying it's got to change public policy at the national level.

3:56Etienne FontanSo as much as discussion has divided us in our community, it has sparked the discussion all across the board around the world. And if it passes, the changes could come swift and significant, as well as with Canada. You're looking to change it possibly in 2017, or at least that has been your prime minister's discussion points for years. Do you still feel that legalization will take hold in Canada in 17, or is that still just all talks and bollocks?

4:25SpeakerNo, they're going to, it was that they would put something on the table by 2017. They were going to introduce legislation. So that probably doesn't mean stores open until at least 2018.

4:39SpeakerBut, you know, if the LPs are, which they probably will be, the LPs are probably going to be the first source and that mail order model that works for the medical system will probably just be passed on to other people. That way, you know, they can roll out the distribution slowly.

4:59BubblemanWell, people got to be able to show up and grab it in person, too. I mean, mail order is a great option, but you've got to have somewhere where people can go and be like, no, I need this. Like, I can't be waiting. It's Friday night on a long weekend.

5:11Etienne FontanIs that your only choice currently is by mail if you're just a patient and not an LP?

5:16SpeakerThe only federal legal choice, yeah, is to order from these what are called what we call licensed producers.

5:24Etienne FontanRight. And there's certain ones in each province that people can have access to?

5:29BubblemanNo, you can have access to any of them across Canada. It doesn't matter what province they're in. Federal programs.

5:35SpeakerMarcus, did you send Robert Clark a link? I sure did.

5:40BubblemanI sent it to Demotsey. Okay, perfect.

5:44SpeakerYeah. I'm assuming you sent it to Mowgli as well.

5:47BubblemanI did not, but... I sent one to Mowgli. Okay. I better make sure I did send it. I hate when I think I sent it. I sent it to all of you. Send it to Mowgli. You've got his email. Well, it's a little trickier than that. I have to go find your email.

6:04SpeakerAnyway, Etienne, sir, what I was saying though is that if you want to get cannabis from these, you know, the federally legal producers where the medicine is standardized and, you know, tracked and traced and all that kind of stuff, yeah, you have to order through the mail order system. So some cities are allowing, you know, dispensaries, but, you know, just the other day we had a whole series of raids in Ottawa.

6:26SpeakerI think there was five shops that were raiding.

6:28Etienne FontanI was about to say, I saw Ottawa had like five busses.

6:32BubblemanAll owned by one family, all those shops. Did you hear that?

6:35SpeakerNo, yeah, I knew there was one guy there that had been opening. What they don't like is the people coming from out west and opening shops back east because they're clearly shipping all the weed back, right? There are other shops in Ottawa that didn't get rated, you know, so.

6:53BubblemanWell, seven got rated and I heard that all of them were owned by this guy Liu, L-I-U-E or L-U-I or something. I just, I read it real briefly. I wish I had still had it open. It was three separate names.

7:07Etienne FontanWere they just a bunch of underground shops that just popped up selling cannabis or were they vying for licensing?

7:13SpeakerThere is no licensing for dispensaries. It doesn't work like that. Vancouver has put in an ad hoc type of licensing. $30,000 cash grab. It's really just a business license. It's not a license to operate and do this. Dispensaries are federally illegal in Canada, so technically they can't exist.

7:40BubblemanYet, it was us practicing civil disobedience that literally created the entire system that does exist.

7:49SpeakerFor sure.

7:50BubblemanSo it's a tricky situation in the sense that, I mean, Chimera's right. There's no real protection for having a dispensary, but Vancouver's kind of offering these ad hoc licenses, which are kind of the first way cities deal with getting rid of dispensaries if they don't want them by saying, well, we're not going to give you one of these licenses.

8:11SpeakerYeah, but it's a business license. It's just a business license. It has nothing to do with cannabis.

8:16BubblemanRight. Exactly. But it's a big one. It has something to do with cannabis because nobody else in the city is paying $30,000 for a business license for one year. So it's a little bit different. It's like 30 Gs for a business license? Whoa.

8:33SpeakerThat's a catch.

8:33BubblemanThat's payola. I mean, you've got to tie it into this whole thing.

8:39SpeakerThat's true. Like Mark said, listen, when I was working down in the States, I remember going into a place in California into a gas station, just picked up a six-pack of beer, and I couldn't leave the store without taking the six-pack and putting it in a brown paper bag, right? That was because of this Christian, you know, it's seen as like some form of impropriety to be seen carrying alcohol, right?

9:05SpeakerSo it had to be like, you could have it, but it couldn't be seen. And it's the same way, you know, in a lot of places in California, you can't just go out on the street and start smoking joints. It's one thing if you want to do it at home in your own private space. But I think that this is really the attitude that the federal government is taking in Canada is they don't want it to be seen as something like it is in the coffee shops in Amsterdam where you're walking down the business street or the shopping street and all you can smell is ganja, right?

9:36SpeakerSo I think that's really their main attitude is they don't want it in the face of people that don't smoke. They don't want the kids to be exposed to it. They certainly don't want positive messaging or advertising about cannabis.

9:48Etienne FontanIt's the same way here in California. They don't want any of that. And one of the main reasons they started to come after us back in the day is because of advertising. They were concerned about advertising. And of course, the main opposition is using that as a sticking point or it's the new scare tactic is basically saying, oh, these candy companies are going to be advertising the children.

10:08Etienne FontanAnd so think about the children. So we're back again to worrying about the children and not about adults again. Kids are exposed to it at home.

10:17SpeakerThey say that while they're reading or watching a porn flick. I mean, the double standard is incredible. In California, I can tell you that the authorities or the people that have to do with all of it when it changes legal are all expecting it to because I've heard from the fire marshals endlessly and they're all Well, I mean, here in California, the, um,

10:55Etienne FontanWhat is it? The largest think tank in California, which handles all that and statistics back in early part of this year already had it figured out that it's going to pass and it was already working on policy because of the public support that's there. So yeah, it's been telegraphed for a while and I know that, you know, we're still waiting on the election to take hold, but Many different organizations and policymakers have been looking to this change to already take place.

11:23Etienne FontanAnd it looks from the polling and everything else we've seen Kevin Sabat throw in the towel the other day regarding California saying, oh, well, California was legal 20 years ago due to medical marijuana. So that won't be such a big thing. But that type of dynamic, if you look at how we actually spun it, as opposed to in the past, shows already how we have changed the discussion.

11:45Etienne FontanWhether you agree with 64 or not, it has changed the discussion, plain and simply.

11:50SpeakerYeah, I think all over the world the discussion's evolved. You know, it's...

11:58Etienne FontanWell, thanks to Canada. I mean, taking, you know, having a government that actually federally is working with you, I mean, that's the great thing. When you say you don't have to worry about what province, the frustration that we have here in America is now we have all these laws and we have 25 states You know, states with medical marijuana laws, yet none of them are consistent. None of them are the same.

12:21Etienne FontanI cannot ship from one legal state to another. Or when it becomes legal in California, I can't ship from California to Oregon to Washington State, even though all those states are legal. Thank you so much for joining us.

12:58Etienne FontanIn Alaska, yeah, and Hawaii potentially already has its medical. That's the entire western United States. You can't tell me that isn't a discussion point.

13:07BubblemanWelcome, Todd. Morning, Todd.

13:10Etienne FontanGood morning, everybody. Are we talking about weed? We're talking 64 again and weed.

13:16SpeakerI'm late because I had to talk to my friend about, he posted some no on 64 shit. I was like, video call. What's the matter with you? Hey, hey. He was like, what do you mean? I explained. He's like, okay, I'm sorry. I'm going to take the post down.

13:34Etienne FontanIf you just confront them with some logic and discussion, it's amazing that these people like this gentleman was outed this week, Kevin Saunders. He's a gentleman out of Washington State who actually got busted selling to an undercover police officer and was going through a court situation, has been going around willingly Thank you for watching.

14:24SpeakerHe's also running for the mayor of Marina, right there near Fort, I mean near Watsonville. In California. Yeah, he's correct. He's down at Santa Cruz.

14:35BubblemanI'll tell you what, there definitely is a group of sort of dissenters. I don't pretend to know enough about it. I have this platform, Hash Church, and we all talk about all the different things. I think of you guys as pretty smart guys. I've listened to both sides of the argument. It seems like there's a tremendous amount of disinformation. And just, no, that's a lie. No, that's not true.

14:56BubblemanPeople just throw in shit back and forth, and it just turns into an internet thing.

15:01SpeakerThat's what they call politics, number one. Number two, that guy who's now running for mayor, the jackass you're talking about, those are all qualifications to be a politician. His best qualification is that he's a methadone addict, or he's an addict who uses methadone. So I can't imagine anybody who wants to vote for a mayor that's on methadone. Yeah, all the other methadone freaks. He's got their vote tied up for sure.

15:37BubblemanWe had a crack-smoking mayor in Toronto there for a while, but he ended up passing away.

15:45BubblemanHe didn't push through on the, well, crack's not healthy for you. There is no medical crack forums that I could find online. Have you found any, Mark, in your travels?

15:58SpeakerThey'd be too paranoid to be online in the first place.

16:03Etienne FontanThe only thing that we had found, as I say, back in 93 when we were doing our first rally in People's Park with Dennis Perrone, we found a flyer for a PCP rally, which we were like, okay, you kind of want to show up to that one just to see what the fuck's going to happen.

16:21SpeakerLet's get dusted.

16:24BubblemanYeah, I'm going to blow smoke towards the Vatican for my good friend Rob, as he always does. I haven't seen much smoke blowing other than Todd lighting up his fatty.

16:35SpeakerHey, Sam. Technically, it's not smoke, it's vapor.

16:38Etienne FontanYeah, vapor as well.

16:41SpeakerOnly if you don't turn the heat up.

16:44Etienne FontanYeah, right, Mr. Todd? Yeah, and this is also because this is to Judge Taggart, who officially dismissed the case on Tuesday, so officially free and done. Don't send it to the judge.

16:59SpeakerThey might be like, hey, here's a new one. Don't toast me, young man. Don't toast me. Did you guys hear Obama's weak response to Bill Maher? Yeah, of course. But he's correct. It's untenable. Yeah, it's untenable, but he diverted immediately to cigarettes.

17:19Etienne FontanHold on. Explain what actually happened because I didn't hear. And everybody else probably wants to know too.

17:25SpeakerWell, he started talking about him smoking cigarettes, and he diverted the discussion when Bill Maher asked him, like, look, you had a punch list of things to do, you know, end game or solve gay marriage. I mean, do all these things, including, you know, end a drug war, you know, well, what about it? You know, it's on the ballot in several states. He said that federal policy conflicts with the state policies.

17:54SpeakerIsn't it time that the U.S. government catch up with progressive states like North Dakota and Arizona?

18:01Etienne FontanYeah, that was awesome. So Bill interviewed the president?

18:07SpeakerYeah. Yeah. So Bill went to the White House. It wasn't that Obama came to the studio in LA. So Bill went to the White House and talked with him. But the response started really weird because he started talking about cigarettes, which have nothing to do with the question. But he did say yes, that the policy is untenable and that we have to have a greater discussion. But Bill made the point that neither you or I would be where we're at if we got in trouble because we were smoking weed or whatever.

18:43SpeakerNot that weed would have not made us who we are today. It's we could have gotten in trouble, which could have subverted our career trajectory that brought us to where we are today. So I just thought it was pretty weak. It's definitely worth it.

18:58BubblemanIn an instant, like the second he asked that question, and I don't know Bill Maher, I don't know Obama, I just could tell as Bill Maher was asking that question, inside his mind he was like, holy shit, I get to ask Obama this question. He looked like he was almost just like barely maintaining. And then the way Obama just sort of like... I turned it off. I'm not even going to lie.

19:21BubblemanI didn't even finish watching it because I was so annoyed by his response. I like turned it off.

19:26SpeakerI was like, what? If you watch that show regularly, he's been trying to get Obama to come on it for the last year or two. Yeah, no, for the last several years. He finally went to the mountain. Right, right. Barack has basically said that he's not going to come on. He's had Bernie on. I think he's even had Trump on before, but not before he was a presidential candidate.

19:53SpeakerBut it was just the opportunity, again, for Obama to say something, like the DEA, to say something, to actually make a statement saying, yeah, this needs to change. It needs to change right now. It's completely inconsistent. And the fact that we're still putting people in jail for this is absolutely... Not only untenable, ridiculous.

20:15Etienne FontanIt's no different than what Bill Clinton did. I mean, if you remember, if anybody remembers the first interview with Rolling Stone right after his presidency, one of the main things he talked about in there is like, what's one of your main regrets regarding the president, you know, your thing, something that you didn't accomplish. He didn't inhale, right? No, no, legalizing marijuana or doing something regarding marijuana. That was before.

20:36Etienne FontanThe inhaling was before. I'm talking this is post, after he had done his two terms. He did a post-election discussion with Rolling Stone, and that's where he said there that he wished he had done something about marijuana. So it's... To me, it sounds more of the same of, you know, policy is too challenging for them because they've got so many other things to deal with that it's on their list.

20:59Etienne FontanBut that's the last two Democratic presidents saying, I wish you could have done it, couldn't do anything about it.

21:04SpeakerWe can't underestimate the powers to be that basically benefit from having cannabis prohibited. And that is the large pharmaceutical companies, the large alcohol companies. And that's why every single one of us here... Yeah.

21:21Etienne FontanThat's why all of us here are active. That's why all of us here are doing something wherever we are is because of this continued baloney and this continued lip service. And all of us are tired of the status quo. And so we're all trying to do something in our own right. Right. And that's why Bernie was our candidate. I mean, Sam wasn't waiting for Reagan to create Skunk.

21:43SpeakerYeah, I mean, Bernie was our candidate, and it's a shame that Hillary and the Debbie Wasserman Schultz machine railroaded Bernie out of being our candidate. Bernie should be the candidate for president, not Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton sucks. People could have showed up. People could have showed up and voted. We have to vote for her. If we were voting for Bernie Sanders, we'd be voting for legalization, folks.

22:07SpeakerWe fucked up.

22:08Etienne FontanBut they're telling everyone to vote for Hillary. People didn't come out and vote in the end, Mark, and that's the problem. Even with obstructionism, the youth vote did not show up. They sat on their ass as usual. They took the bait, and some showed up, some got active, but I saw this completely.

22:28SpeakerI saw this completely.

22:29Etienne FontanBut it turns out that not enough voters showed up in the end to vote.

22:33SpeakerWall Street determines who's in the White House. I really disagree that Clinton was not doing a lot of things. I mean, first of all, in the White House, he tripled the amount of interns in the White House.

22:47BubblemanSo he's definitely doing some things.

22:51SpeakerThanks for the levity there, Sam. I totally agree. Hey, there's nothing like pizza and a cigar, right? Nothing like that.

22:59BubblemanThat's just ridiculous. Wendy's having troubles trying to get in. They're rebooting their computer. Wendy and Colton are trying to make it in. Hopefully by the time they make it in, we'll be talking about something different.

23:13SpeakerMichael said he'll be on at 10 o'clock. Oh, wonderful. Well, I'm here on the island just celebrating Gail Quinn's life here this weekend. Gail was a great activist here in Vancouver and was part of a Hempology and the Cannabis Bars Club. So that's what I'm doing out here, guys. Today is just out here celebrating a great life. It was a fantastic time and kind of just want to touch base and say good morning to everybody and saying, you know, someone who's fought cancer hard and long.

23:46SpeakerShe had her passing there when we were at a cup there recently. I think Mark's made mention of it, but that's why I'm out on the island again this weekend. Just kind of coming out here to say farewell to a great lady. Can you tell us a little more about Gale? Can I tell us a little bit more about Gale? Well, Gale has been involved in the industry for as long as I remember.

24:07SpeakerI met Gale and Ted back in 2005 when I was at the Green Cross Society and they had the Canada Spires Club on Vancouver Island. It was one of the first clubs in Canada next to the BCCS, British Columbia Compassion Club Society. I think they were all formed around roughly the same time.

24:27SpeakerTed basically held that down for years until at one point he was involved with big court cases, which was the winning of us being able to have extracts. That was that big court case. So Ted and Gail were very much really involved in the industry and made a lot of good and made a lot of change, in my opinion, and still today run the Cannabis Digest magazine.

24:48SpeakerThere's just so much to talk about about Gail and Ted, right? So it can go on and on, but he can definitely... You know, check more on Facebook and all their other cannabis digest magazines and stuff like that. I'm sure Mark could weigh in a lot on Gail too.

25:04BubblemanA little bit anyway. I knew, you know, Ted and Gail for quite a while. So it was a very sad story. They've been, you know, longtime activists here in B.C., Doing it up proper on the island. And like you said, from almost the beginning, they definitely probably started only a year or two after the BC Compassion Club. So of course, Ted and Owen Smith was the big case that led Canada to allow MMPR patients to process resins.

25:34BubblemanSo from a hash maker standpoint, One of the most important cases that ever went through the courts in Canada prior to Owen Smith and Ted Smith Gail's partner getting arrested in the bakery and going through the whole court case and really having Kirk Tussauds share an incredible perspective with the judge, which was this little old lady is legal under your program, but the minute she takes the bud and puts it into water and makes tea with it, she's now done an extraction and she's facing a mandatory two years in prison.

26:07SpeakerAs soon as she took the leaf out of the tea.

26:10BubblemanYeah, as soon as she took the leaf out of the tea. So it was very like, I think Kirk hit a home run with that analogy.

26:17SpeakerHe really did. He really did. Kirk's made some incredible poignant arguments and that was one of them.

26:23BubblemanThat was a big one. That changed the word dried marijuana. To just marijuana. And the definition of marijuana versus dried marijuana is marijuana is everything. And dried marijuana is just the flowered buds. So he got it to change. Can you imagine how huge that was for Canadians who We were allowed to have this plant. We were allowed to consume it. Really, even vaporization, which should have been considered a concentration or an extraction because you're removing the active ingredients off of the plant and concentrating them once again, even if it is one hit at a time through a volcano bag.

27:05BubblemanNonetheless, that was a big case, and so they were all a big part of that.

27:09SpeakerIt was an inevitable win because it is such an arbitrary and ridiculous Thank you for joining us.

27:29BubblemanI think it was one of the big ones. I mean, it's funny because, you know, we always, I've said it a few times, how much we fight and, you know, oh, we need this and we need that and it's, we're not being treated properly and we have to fight the fight and it's for the patients and it's for the I'm just kind of like, you know, why don't we celebrate some of the things that we've gained in all of this, because making ash is a huge one, gaining our right to grow is a huge one, particularly on a level of no real, I mean, people say there's plant limitations, but come on, a hundred plants is a pretty good limitation.

28:06SpeakerWell, can I say this? Come on, when I first became a pot activist, High Times was not legal to be sold in Canada. How far is that?

28:17BubblemanThat's weird. We've come a long way. It probably is still illegal to sell in Canada, actually. I bet it's not even legal still.

28:27SpeakerWas Playboy illegal at the same time that High Times was? Playboy was legal and High Times wasn't.

28:36BubblemanSomething like that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And not just Playboy, but horrible, low-quality magazines, much lower quality than...

28:44SpeakerWell, I think it was in relation to manufacturing of controlled substances. They didn't allow them to have grow books and such. In the 80s, a lot of the titles that were illegal here were banned up there. You're coming through like a robot. It was actually a bong shop law and Mark Emery fought that one, at least the magazine half, and had the law invalidated. So technically the bong law, those two on the book, is also invalidated also.

29:15SpeakerThat's how they busted Tommy Chong. He was making bongs. And they put him in the federal pen. They busted him because he was sending them across state lines.

29:25BubblemanRight. Did that have the whole... The whole story, they entrapped him hard with that order. They didn't want to send that order for months and months and months. And that order ended up getting packaged up. And the wrong person finally got... Got on the phone with the guy who was like, come on, come on, just send it, send it. We've already paid this, that, and the other thing.

29:45BubblemanAnd they sent this order, total entrapment. They were never supposed to send that glass. It was the mistake of one person, and then he ends up doing prison time for it. Because, I mean, didn't they nail Tim Leary the same way by nailing his daughter or something? Because it was Paris that got nailed, right? Tommy was just like, I'll take the... Yeah, no?

30:05SpeakerIs that not the... Yeah, Tommy was just a face on the bong, but they said they would go after Paris and his wife if he didn't capitulate to a guilty plea. The truth is that if you watch the documentary, it's called AKA Tommy Chong, it's really worth watching because it's a study in how corrupt the government really was. They found a prosecutor in Pennsylvania that was willing to take a case, and then what they did is they literally physically went all the way to California, purchased, as Paris said, everything that wasn't in stock, and then left, saying they were going to Vegas, and then never came back to pick up the order.

30:42SpeakerWhat? They started pressuring them, please send it, please send it. They've got audio recordings on their answering machines, everything. Finally, they relented. They shipped the stuff to the people. That was the bust.

30:53BubblemanFucking hell, that's just low qual. I'll tell you, I finally, after all these years, met Tommy when he was out here for the International Cannabis Business Corporation event, the one put on by Alex Rogers. And

31:09SpeakerInternational Canvas Business Conference.

31:11BubblemanRight. Great speech that Tommy did. I was kind of surprised. I was like, okay, Tommy Chong, like what the hell is this guy going to tell? Like he probably has some pretty crazy stories. You cannot believe the stories this guy has. First of all, they are completely off. Like he spent a ton of his time in Vancouver after getting kicked out as youths from Calgary. He came to Vancouver and started playing music and met Jimi Hendrix and got the Jackson 5 sign to Motown and like did all this crazy shit.

31:39BubblemanThat you're just like, holy shit, like Tommy Chong has lived the most just ridiculously epic life. Even his time in prison, like every story he tells is just, this guy's got a positive vibe, man. There's really no denying that. And it seemed pretty.

31:56SpeakerAnd a beautiful part of him as he came, he was grown up in Canada and what he felt was an interracial family, you know. And he grew up really kind of feeling like the underdog his whole life and stuff. And, you know, a lot of why I think Tommy came out in support of 64 So Quick was because he knows what's happening to minorities. He knows what's happening to people of color when it comes to the racist laws around marijuana because he was one of them.

32:19BubblemanYeah, for sure. He talks a lot about, you know, being, oh, hey, how's it going, guys?

32:27SpeakerAnd we finally figured it out.

32:30BubblemanWell, that's awesome. I was definitely hoping that you guys were going to make it. It's been a while. You guys are looking good. Thank you.

32:41Etienne FontanThank you again for coming back. You guys have been inspirations to all of us. Colton, bless you for going out there and taking your activism to a whole other level and making others aware of what you've gone through so that they can benefit from your story. And thank you to your mother for championing you and your cause and going out there. I can't say enough of much thanks and respect to the both of you.

33:05SpeakerFor sure. Thanks for the support. We appreciate it.

33:09BubblemanIt's been great to see, just watching the social media, to watch you guys fall into this place that you've been cast into, so to speak, and really sort of navigate it wonderfully. It's been nice to see the growth and the happiness and the health, and it's just made me feel all around great when Natasha said she wanted to invite you guys on. I was very excited to have you guys back.

33:35SpeakerWe are excited to be here. We watch every now and then. We have a second to actually have a life. So I have to go back and watch on YouTube sometimes.

33:50BubblemanYes, absolutely. Well, I'm trying to get Dr. Natasha invited in. She's having the same issue that you're having, and I hope that Mowgli doesn't have the same issue as well. It seemed to work fine when I sent you the email, though, hey?

34:06SpeakerIt's a plug-in on my, it was my computer. It's just, I don't have a plug-in that I needed. Did it say it was paused? No, it just wouldn't connect at all, so.

34:21BubblemanGood, yeah. Natasha's saying a similar thing, that it's not letting her connect, but I'll invite her in via the other way, and maybe Sam, if you want to check with Mowgli. To make sure that he doesn't need to be invited in a secondary way as well.

34:36Etienne FontanSo Colton, I've noticed that it looks like you've grown. So you've been eating and absorbing food and getting healthy it seems.

34:42SpeakerOh yeah, definitely. Lots of it. He's been doing really well. We've been really happy. He's up to 110 pounds now and he's taller than I am. So when we started this journey, he was shorter than me. And that was pretty awesome. And then he just slowly grew and grew and grew. And now he's officially taller than I am.

35:11BubblemanWow, that must be amazing to see after watching the sort of the stunt in growth that occurred when I guess after the drowning and the Crohn's disease reared its ugly head. Before you found out about cannabis, I remember you telling us that he had really kind of stopped growing.

35:29SpeakerYeah, he did. We always just thought that he was small. My husband's not a very big person. I'm not very big. And, you know, we just thought that that was him. And we didn't realize that he was, he was complete, he was four means below the standard in growth. And, and that was really, it was, we were really shocked to, to realize that it wasn't because of him just being him.

35:58SpeakerIt was actually because of the Crohn's disease. And it wasn't, it, It wasn't active but because of the inactivity in it, it stopped his growth and we don't understand why and we don't understand why the doctors didn't find that either. Every time we look back on his doctor visits and every time we'd go to the doctor, we'd say, you know, he's complaining that his belly hurts and that's all he complains about and we never even thought anything of it.

36:30SpeakerIt just, you know, the kids complain about that kind of stuff. So you don't, you don't, you don't further research why he has a bellyache. He just, you know, he has a bellyache. He lays down. He, it goes away. He gets up and he goes and plays again and it's no big deal. You don't realize that, you know, sometimes these little bellyaches or these little quirks that they have are really something bigger.

36:55SpeakerGo ahead. Go ahead.

36:59Etienne FontanFor those who don't know your story, Colton, could you give people an understanding of who you are and why you're here with us today?

37:07SpeakerWell, my name is Colton Turner. I'm 16 years old and I currently use cannabis for my Crohn's disease. When I was 11, I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease and I was put on pharmaceutical after pharmaceutical, each one doing more harm than good. And sometimes they just don't work at all. Eventually, I was brought up to three options. I could have another pharmaceutical that would increase my chances of lymphoma by 66%.

37:35SpeakerI could go and have surgery and have 22 centimeters of infected bowel removed, or I can use alternative treatments. So we started researching cannabis. And now I've been on it for two years and I'm in complete remission.

37:52BubblemanUnbelievable. And where did you guys first hear of cannabis? Was it just getting on the old computer and Googling away? Yep.

38:02SpeakerWe started Googling alternative treatments. And then all of a sudden, it just kind of like hit the limelight. We heard of Charlotte's story. And we watched the weed thing with Sanjay Gupta. And we were like, you know, if it's working for this little girl, then, you know, maybe it will work for you, you know. And then we found an Israeli study that said that out of 21 people, 10 of them retained full remission.

38:43SpeakerAnd two of them were in remission, but not clinical remission. They just had symptom remission. And so we were like, wow, that beat placebo. And we were like, well, that's really encouraging. And then we couldn't find any side effects. You know, with Humira or Remicade or Prednisone, you know, they give you this long, long list of side effects. And we just couldn't find any of those. And with this, we were like, well, what do we have to lose?

39:18SpeakerWe don't really have anything to lose.

39:22BubblemanQuite something for sure. Yeah, the side effect, the worst case side effect sometimes is feeling a little okay.

39:30SpeakerRight. And isn't that what you're supposed to do? That's what drives you crazy about this whole situation. I don't know how many times when we've been interviewed, they ask us, well, does Colton get high?

39:41BubblemanOf course.

39:43SpeakerWell, no, he doesn't get high, but is that such a bad thing? You know?

39:48BubblemanIt's better. That is the bad thing that they're still attaching. All the propaganda has now shifted into we have to protect the children. And by protect the children, they don't mean stopping removing your lower intestine or feeding you a cast of pharmaceutical drugs. We're going to cause side effects alone that could potentially kill you. They're just going to make sure that you're not feeling euphoria from a natural plant medicine that's basically benign and can't harm you.

40:15BubblemanAnd it seems a little bit like where we end up coming across as conspiracy type people where it's like if they just remove that one aspect of the agenda and opened up to learning and accepting that this is a real thing, it would sure feel much better, wouldn't it?

40:33SpeakerWell, it's because they're still all hooked in to religion. And you're not supposed to feel good. You're supposed to be suffering. Feeling good is against the rules, especially if you're sick or you're receiving some kind of assistance. You're not supposed to feel good then. You're supposed to be guilty so that you can get back to work. And that's just the way the culture is. They've been doing that to us for so long.

40:59SpeakerThat they're able to point things out and say, you guys are violating the rules when inwardly we know, after thinking about it for a long time and smoking pot, that that's a load of crap. And so we start feeling, you know, hey, why am I buying into the crap scene when instead I can understand and realize what's going on. If it wasn't for religion, this whole world would be a far better place, I mean.

41:28SpeakerReligion is the cancer. It's a canker on the butt of reality. It should go away. I don't know what to say about that. But anyway, there you go. I'm anti-religion.

41:40Etienne FontanWhat's wrong with feeling good? Because Colton, you had to have tried those Humira and those other medications and start to deal with side effects for real because you were kind of a healthy young man with just dealing with tummy aches. And now you're dealing with probably some major side effects of these pharmaceuticals.

42:00SpeakerCorrect? Just on one medication, I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and medically induced lupus.

42:06BubblemanJesus. Yeah, that's pretty heavy duty. I mean, it's just nonsensible whatsoever to my mind. And from Colton's perspective as well, we're not talking about the subtleties of not wanting to feel good. He's basically dying. I saw the picture of his colon. It was bad. It was black. It definitely, I don't think it could get much worse. And then I saw how it looked after he took the cannabis as a medicine.

42:32BubblemanAnd that alone must be the most incredible good feeling to have death in your body and to produce life. I can only imagine the high that that brought with it.

42:45SpeakerOh yeah, it was far greater than any high that the cannabis used recreationally. Right. It's really hard to be high and hurt. Yeah. It's such a dichotomy that the government takes advantage of it by mincing words with us and using doublespeak to address our problems instead of coming up to the truth. So you were a victim of doublespeak for a very long time until you found the path.

43:18BubblemanAnd in a sense, still a victim because his family doesn't all live in Colorado. I mean, I'm sure that being able to go home and visit the grandparents and all the cousins and stuff is like an important factor as well. So the fight is definitely not over. But glad that you found a place that you can, you know, stay alive in.

43:41Etienne FontanAnd that's part of your story that you haven't stated is that you had to move where you're from originally and come to Colorado where you could actually have your medicine.

43:50SpeakerYeah, I was actually from Southern Illinois down by St. Louis. Everyone that I ever knew was from that small town that we lived in. And it was hard because I was there for 14 years before we moved to Colorado. So it was a really hard adjustment to make. I was there for 40 years.

44:16SpeakerI grew up there. My grandparents still live there. I have 23 first cousins. And I have eight aunts and uncles. And both sides of my family, on my mom's side and my dad's side, they both live in that area and are from that town. So I went from grade school to high school. They're all in that same town and so did all of my family. They're all there.

44:45SpeakerSo it's been really, really difficult for me because I've left everything that I've ever known for 40 years. And his has been 14 years. And we still lived in the same house that we brought him home in after he was born and Skylar and Riley also. And then we had to give all that up. We have a business there that still runs without us, thank the Lord.

45:17SpeakerWe have great staff. But we'd like to just go home to where we were from from the very beginning. There shouldn't be a reason why we have to live in Colorado just for medicine. For sure. Well, for one thing, you swam out of the shallow end of the gene pool there. And came to the deeper spot. I mean, everybody around there is related, right? I mean, you don't know.

45:44SpeakerFirst, second, third, fourth cousin, uncle. I mean, it just sounds to me like it wasn't necessarily a bad thing that you get out of there. Does he not qualify under Illinois' program? Illinois has medical cannabis. Does he not qualify? He does qualify. And that is we fought for Illinois to get medical cannabis. But the problem that we run into is that we live near St. Louis. And to get a doctor to see Colton, we would have to go to St. Louis, Missouri.

46:19SpeakerAnd all the doctors there in Illinois and in St. Louis, they're still very, very negative towards the cannabis situation. And not open-minded at all. So we have friends and... And people that we've met through the cannabis industry that are in Illinois, in our same position, that have Crohn's disease, that are going to GI doctors in St. Louis, because that's the only place that they have specialists, and they're having a hard time.

46:49SpeakerThe doctors are saying, oh, you know, cannabis doesn't work, and you're going to get this, and you're going to get that, and, you know, this is a big hoax, and... You know, they're showing Colson's colonoscopy to these doctors and saying, but it worked for this kid. And they're like, oh, he's an anomaly. You know, he it's not true. And then if they're, and they're saying, if you don't go, if you don't take these medications, if you don't do what we say, then we're going to fire you as, as a patient.

47:20SpeakerAnd then they're not, they're not getting any medical care. So we, we have two doctors here, his pediatrician and his, his GI specialists that are on board 100%. And I don't, I don't want to go back to Illinois and say, Get medication legally because we can because he qualifies and then go to the doctor and the doctor say, well, we don't think that it's working. We're going to send CPS on you and then I get my kid taken away and I just don't get Colton taken away.

47:53SpeakerI get all three of them taken away.

47:55BubblemanExactly. They would take all of them for sure.

47:58SpeakerAnd then what happens to Colton? What I get most afraid of is that if Colton shouldn't be taken into custody for CPS and put in foster care, they're not going to give him cannabis. They're going to give him Humira or they're going to give him Remicade. Or some other kind of biological that almost killed him. And I can't do that. So granted, even though I think the Illinois Medical Program is fantastic, it really is, the support behind it is really what's lacking.

48:32SpeakerSo we don't have any doctors that we can go to that are going to say, yeah, Colton, go ahead and keep taking your medicine.

48:40Etienne FontanAs displaced cannabis Americans, because you are basically that because of your medicine, you're basically, Colton, you're sentenced to live in Colorado until the laws change. And that's a reality that you've had to face. And that had to be a very difficult decision, one as a parent, much less as you yourself, because this is your life we're talking about, Colton. So what do you tell other patients that are currently out there watching you that are in these displaced states currently?

49:10Etienne FontanWhat would you advise them to do since you've actually had to walk this long, difficult, challenging road as a pioneer in your own world?

49:19SpeakerI tell them I'd rather be illegally alive than legally dead. Yeah. Right on. Yeah. It's difficult. We get asked that question a lot. At least I do as a mom because we have a lot of, I get a lot of parents that say, why did you do it and how did you do it? There isn't anything in the world that we wouldn't do for Colton or any of our children.

49:48SpeakerAnd if we had to move, we had to move. We'll just figure it out. But it's not fair. It's not right because like I said, we gave up everything. And would we go back to Illinois if we had to and do it illegally? Absolutely. But you're one doctor away, right? If you had a doctor in southern Illinois that prescribed cannabis, this is really a failure of education of the doctors.

50:19SpeakerWell, can I interject something? No. The reality is he needs actual access to actual cannabis, and it's not just the doctor's note and the hassle they need. They actually just need to stop and go to Colorado, and they can get it fully easily there, and that's what's helping them with his health. It's not about the bureaucratic paperwork that he could overcome in Illinois. It's about the fact that you can go into Colorado, walk into a store and get what it is he needs right there.

50:46SpeakerNo hassle. No problem. And this is where Illinois should go with it because there's a lot more people like him And me as a kid, I was a kid too. My mom thought I was sick. The doctors at Boston Children's Hospital told her that she was an inexperienced young mother that didn't know better and sent me home because they couldn't understand the type of cancer I had because it was at the time so rare.

51:11SpeakerSo we run into this type of bureaucratic ignorance all over the place. What the kid really needs is access. And that's what legalization in Colorado really provided. You know, that's the point. Todd? Access actually provided a forced reason for these doctors to have to deal with it. So when Colorado legalized, they had this whole situation where we have, We have ER visits with people using cannabis. We have people using cannabis because they can legally and it's helping these certain conditions.

51:49SpeakerSo they're going into the doctors and the doctors are like, oh yeah, I can see that. It's actually helping. We as patients here in Colorado are teaching the doctors that, oh yeah, hey look, it is working. And in Illinois, that's just not happening yet. We really have to educate the doctors about this. And they have a real hard time with it. Colorado's been legal for medical for years.

52:22SpeakerAnd it just hasn't happened in the last couple of years. They've been on board for a long time. So Colorado doctors really need to go to the rest of the world and say, look, you know, everybody says that Colorado is this and that and the other. And I'm going to tell you, this is working. And we really need to work on that. So I know here in Colorado the MJ for MDs is coming up next week.

52:50SpeakerAnd Colton's, the doctor that Colton was seeing for the Candid study, which is the cannabis IBD study at Denver Children's, is going to be there speaking. So we're going. Because... It's, he has, he's still not on board completely. It's not Colton's actual GI doctor. But I'd like to know what he has to say to the rest of the world. And there's going to be tons and tons of doctors there that are pro-cannabis.

53:20SpeakerAnd more doctors need to actually go and listen to these pro-cannabis doctors. And keep an open mind. You have to understand that the whole thing is connected to an industry that's spawning funds. When there's more funds available to the doctors, they'll be more open-minded and more of them will start writing prescriptions. It's the whole way the thing works. It just has nothing to do with it. So we were like, wow, that beat placebo.

53:51SpeakerIt has nothing to do with it. It's really encouraging. It has nothing to do with getting them to have an open mind and looking at it. It has to do with an open wallet. And when the open wallet opens in their direction, they'll start cooperating like crazy. Hi, Mowgli. Greetings to Hash Church, Mowgli.

54:12BubblemanI don't really have anything to lose.

54:13SpeakerHello.

54:15Etienne FontanWelcome, Mowgli.

54:17BubblemanYeah, the side effect, the worst case side effect sometimes.

54:20Etienne FontanMowgli, you need to turn down the sound on your YouTube all the way down. Right.

54:25BubblemanYeah, just mute the YouTube that's playing. And once that's muted, it won't go through your mic anymore. That's a classic problem we all go through. I go through it every single time.

54:38SpeakerNo, he doesn't get high, but is that such a bad thing?

54:46BubblemanHe needs to mute YouTube. Try to mute YouTube, not the Google+.

54:55Etienne FontanTurn down the volume slider on his YouTube feed.

55:00SpeakerHe's got two windows open. He's got this one open and the Hash Church Live window open. Close that one and the echo will stop. There you go. Hi, Wendy. And welcome, Natasha. I just wanted to say hello. Hi, Natasha. Hi, everybody. And hi, Colton. Hi, Wendy. Nice to meet you guys. I wanted you guys to tell us more about the CANDID trial because I'm trying to get involved with a group from Vancouver.

55:28SpeakerAnd so we've been talking to some of the researchers and the gastroenterologists in Colorado. So do you want to tell us more about the CANDID trial? Sure. Do you want to do? There's like a couple of different opinions here. So the Candid Trial is for cannabis and IBD in adolescents and it's supposed to help study efficacy and it kind of isn't. Yeah, it was asking me ridiculous questions like if I was ever on opioids or if I ever sold my opioids, if I was ever smoking methamphetamine, if I was doing this, that, and the other.

56:18SpeakerI felt like I was being treated as a drug addict rather than a patient. But that is how they view us. That's how they've categorized us for decades. So don't take it personally. They're just typecasting you. You know, I was called a doper once and I really went, wow, you know, a doper, you know, and it just didn't feel right. And that's one of the things that we got really upset about is that the doctor that is actually doing the Candid Study, his name is Dr. Hoffenberg, and his wife is an addiction specialist.

57:02SpeakerAnd so we know where this is coming from. But even some of the questions on there, it was all about CBD. And we would call and call and call and say, hey, listen, Colton takes THC. This is not about CBD. It's not a CBD-only situation. And I guess because I'm vocal and because I was kind of pissed off about the whole situation, I'm the only person that's really saying anything about it.

57:35SpeakerI would call all the time and say, listen, it's not about CBD. You're putting dabs and oil in the same category, which they're totally two different things. They had absolutely no idea about cannabis at all. I had to say it's not just, It's not just oils. People are smoking. And that's okay for kids to do because smoking is great for nausea. And these kids are constantly nauseous.

58:03SpeakerSo don't make that into something that is negative. And we just fought and fought and fought. And even the milligrams, they would say it's CBD oil. And they weren't looking at the milligrams. How many milligrams of CBD does Colton take? How many milligrams of THC does Colton take? And or whatever other cannabinoid or terpene or anything like that is in the medicine. They weren't researching that stuff.

58:31SpeakerThey were just asking if he was taking CBD oil and that's it. And if his appetite was good and if it wasn't. And like that's not a study. The majority of the questions that he was being asked were, do you sell your drugs? Have you ever taken more of your opiates than what you should? And it's been really, really difficult. So I get really angry about the whole situation.

59:03SpeakerWell, they're trying to put him in a certain category. If you answer yes to any of those questions, it's just like going down and getting branded. Right. And thank you, Wendy. Thank you guys for sharing that because what we're trying to do is some of the limitations with what's going on there. And thank you for sharing me your experience because we're in the process of trying to do something similar where we want to set up...

59:30SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

59:43SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

1:00:04SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

1:00:23SpeakerIt might not even be their fault the way they have to ask you those questions because it might have had to be asked that way to get through the ethics and blah blah blah blah and that doesn't make it any less horrible or bad and I agree with what you're saying it's not just about the CBD we need to learn more about THC and we can't ignore that for pediatric use either because it does have legitimate medical applications and especially with what you're saying with nausea and just all these other Thank you for watching.

1:01:08SpeakerLook at what they're doing there, because really there's no data on pediatric cannabis use, especially for Crohn's and Colitis. There's just no info, so it's really hard, like you guys were saying, for gastroenterologists and doctors to take this legitimately and believe in it, and because there's so much stigma around cannabis use, even for adults, and then now we're talking about pediatrics, and most doctors just won't even talk about it.

1:01:30SpeakerAnd so we need more people like what you guys are doing, and we need to talk about it, and Let's keep in touch and even I want to hear more about your experience with how you felt that survey, how the questions could be improved, how you could give the researchers better info to help them understand how to treat this condition better because there are people who want that information.

1:01:51SpeakerIt's just trying to figure out how to get it. But yeah. Well, definitely. We actually have, I screenshot the questions and then recorded Colton for, we have about an hour of recording him answering the questions, reading the questions and answering them. And we were just like, I mean, some of the questions were ridiculous. But the last time we went to the doctor for the study, he was handed a sheet of paper and it had all these questions on it.

1:02:25SpeakerAnd I'm like, you can't ask that. And you can't word it like this. And you need to word it like this. And there was other questions in there that we were like, why are you asking these questions? But then I was like, but you need to be asking this. You need to be asking about the milligrams. You need to be asking about his appetite. And you need to be asking about how he feels.

1:02:51SpeakerAnd And you need to be taking his blood and seeing what his CRP levels are and things like that. And so they have to go back to the IRB people. And get all those questions approved. And they're not bad people. And they listen to us. It's just that some of those questions were like, OK, this is a DEA situation. They're only wondering what's going on. If he's just a pothead or a drug dealer, you know, something like that.

1:03:29SpeakerAnd that was really difficult. So, Natasha, we can definitely get you some of the questions that he's been asked. And you guys can go. Yeah, I would really like that because And just exactly even your opinion on what should be asked. And we're also very interested in how people are already using it and how it's like what symptoms they're using it for, how it's already helping them.

1:03:53SpeakerAnd so we'll be setting up a patient registry to get more info. And before we go get our Thank you so much for joining us.

1:04:20SpeakerAnd I'm fortunate. I have access to a lot of people who are using cannabis to help their conditions. And so I want to take that into account before I even start serving patients to find out more. There's a lot to do with, I mean there's a lot of stuff. We have found that like, and the guys on Hash Church here, they're such experts on cannabinoids and terpenes and things like that.

1:04:47SpeakerThis is a great question for you guys. We have found that THCV is more detrimental to Colton's health than having a ton of cannabinoids that are good. He lost 3 pounds when he had THCV in his system.

1:05:11SpeakerWe started using cannabis that didn't have THCV and now he's gained all that weight back. Where was he getting the THCV from? Most cannabis levels have really low levels of THCV. He was breeding it to have a higher THCV level in it. Was it lab tested? Yeah, it was 8%. Of the total cannabinoid was like 20 or was it your oil or from a flower or what?

1:05:37SpeakerIt was oil and it was... So the oil was 8% THCV? Yeah. So that means the herb was practically nothing. It was bad. The interesting thing is, because if he's not taking any CBD, then it might not be through inflammation. Yeah, he's taking CBD. Oh, he is also? Yeah, per day he takes 60 milligrams of THC and CBD. And it's in 15 milligram capsules each day or every four hours or every six hours.

1:06:14SpeakerSorry. Sorry. Four of them every six hours. But it's pretty much a one-to-one mixture. It's a one-to-one. Yeah. Wendy, with the THCV, was the symptom that you were having, that Colton was having issues with, was that just weight loss or was it other, like did you find the inflammation getting worse or what was more pain, like or was it just the weight loss was the major issue?

1:06:38SpeakerMajor issue was weight loss and then his appetite fell. He didn't have... Well, THCV is actually being studied as a weight loss therapy, so that's actually quite interesting. And THCV does not get you high and does not stimulate your appetite. Yeah, because the question becomes, is it a change in the CB1 signaling? THCV is a CB1 receptor blocker, right? So it could be that you're having some CB1 blockade, which is leading to it.

1:07:11SpeakerBut alternately, it could just be that he's not as hungry, and therefore he's not eating. Right? Yeah, well, once we took the THCV out of it, out of his medicine, he's done a ton better. I think it was a real, really that cannabinoid was detrimental to his health. Where did you get the idea to concentrate on THCV? Well, we weren't concentrating on it. The person that was making his medicine was, and I don't think he understood.

1:07:46SpeakerMost of the patients that he has are pediatric epilepsy, so they do kind of need an appetite We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

1:08:21SpeakerWhen I started researching the fact that there was THCV in it and he had found out that it was an appetite suppressant, we were like, okay, we got to get this out of here because he's losing weight. He's not hungry anymore. This is one of the problems with this space right now. There's a lot of people playing doctor that aren't doctor. Right. And if you guys find something that works, it's not really up to your provider to be changing things up on you.

1:08:51SpeakerAbsolutely. Absolutely. We agree. So I just want to give a little more background on just for the panel and even the audience listening, even what Crohn's disease actually is because I know there's a lot of confusion with different gastrointestinal disorders. So inflammatory bowel disease is what we're talking about here. That includes Crohn's disease. That's what Colton has. And ulcerative colitis. And this is very different from conditions such as irritable bowel syndrome like IBS.

1:09:17SpeakerSo people confuse IBS and IBD. These are very different conditions. Irritable bowel syndrome is a functional gut disorder. It's very serious. You still have lots of pain, anxiety, bowel disorders. But what's different with these inflammatory conditions is there is severe inflammation and there's a genetic component Thank you so much for joining us.

1:10:07SpeakerWhen you take together all of these genetic issues, what then happens is these patients, then there's a trigger. So in Colton's case, what happened, and I think he explained a little bit before, was he had a very traumatic incident where he nearly drowned. And please share as much of your story as you want. But what's interesting about with this disease is what happens is during these very stressful incidences and so with one of the clinicians that I work with, they always talk about a trigger for people when they get this disease is actually exam time for university students.

1:10:43SpeakerSo very stressful times and I mean the experience that Colton went through is You know, a near-death experience. This is the most tragic experience you can go through. And then also what happened in his experience is he swallowed some of the lake water, which was bad bacteria. All these triggers resulted in this manifestation of this disease. And what happens with this disease is it can manifest anywhere along your gastrointestinal tract.

1:11:09SpeakerSo this can be from your mouth, all along your stomach, your small intestine, your large intestine. And what's different between Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis, ulcerative colitis is just in the large intestine. And the cure for this disease is you can get your colon removed, which... Thank you for joining us today.

1:11:53SpeakerEven part of the reason why these patients start getting arthritis, they start getting even inflammation in their eyes, and then they have to go on very strong immunosuppressants, so steroids, and long-term use of steroids isn't, you can't do it because it stunts your growth, it increases your risk for other diseases, it stunts your puberty, I mean, you guys obviously can talk about this more than I can, and then the anti-ETNF blockers is kind of the last stage, and this is helpful for some patients, but A lot of patients it's not, and again, what it does is it stops your body from making TNF alpha.

1:12:28SpeakerThis is a specific immune modulator that has a lot of, can cause a lot of damage, but it also has benefits, and we don't fully know enough about it. So blocking the specific compound also increases your risk of infection, cancer, all these other things, and up to 40% of patients stop responding to this. So for a lot of these patients, there's nothing they can do. And Crohn's disease, everyone I know with Crohn's disease is in the hospital often because 70% of these patients need surgery at least once during the course of this illness.

1:12:56SpeakerThis is a very, very serious disease. And I don't think people, like, it's a rare condition so people don't understand how Thank you so much for joining us.

1:13:25SpeakerSo much pain. So when cannabis can give these people back their life, it's something that we can't even deny. And once you see that happen and once you start understanding some of the mechanism and reading more into it, how can you be quiet about that? And meeting

1:13:41SpeakerYou Wendy and Colton and like I just I got shivers when I saw your videos and the first time I saw that really like made me want to get in touch with you and it's funny Wendy because when you first got in touch with me I was actually thinking of contacting you that day to see if you wanted to come back on Hash Church and I was just totally weirded out because we had never met before and then Wendy actually contacted me about skin care because I also make skin care.

1:14:04SpeakerAnd so I was like, oh, yeah, I'll send you some skin here, but come on, hash church. And what really got me about Colton's video is when he describes a flare he had where, you know, eating pizza, so dietary things, something as simple as eating pizza can set these patients into a flare. And Colton went to a hospital that wasn't cannabis friendly, and they made him feel like a drug dealer.

1:14:27SpeakerAnd if he would have had... Thank you for joining us.

1:14:48SpeakerLike, I have all these connections. I did my PhD in experimental medicine. My advisor and friend is the head of pediatric gastroenterology at Children's Hospital in Vancouver. And so now I'm not being quiet anymore. I've done enough presentations. I've talked to these people enough. And now when I talk about these patient stories and we start coming together, these people change their mind because they don't want to just hear a researcher.

1:15:11SpeakerThey don't want to just hear a doctor. They don't want to just hear a patient. They need all these perspectives. And then they go... Okay, maybe there's something here, and if we can all come together and talk about these things, we can make real change. So tomorrow, I have a meeting with the head of gastroenterology in Vancouver, and I also have, it's a pediatric pain specialist, who I didn't even know is in this person's network, so they can't prescribe cannabis, but they've figured out these interesting ways to work together to help patients in need.

1:15:40SpeakerAnd I've known these people for eight years, and they've never even told me about this. This is how... Careful and scared people are to like even out themselves as a doctor who uses cannabis with their patients and so we're at the tip of an iceberg of helping these people and it's I need to keep pushing and we need to keep going and we need to keep working together and I'm just so excited to meet you guys and I hope we can keep this going and figure out, even though there's limitations with what's going on in this Colorado study, let's figure out how to make it better.

1:16:11SpeakerLet's figure out how to improve it and actually help these people. Well, this is just the first study. So other than the studies that are in Israel, the United States, this is the first IBD study in the United States that is actually funded and is being done by doctors that isn't about finding the negative. It's not about his brain cells and is he losing IQ points and things like that.

1:16:45SpeakerIt's actually about We're figuring out if this has efficacy or not. And they're making a lot of mistakes. And that's to be expected. This is the first one. They have no clue what they're doing. They're asking a mom who just happened into this. Stumbled into cannabis. It helped her son. And they're asking me the questions. They're asking me, well, what should we ask? What should we do?

1:17:16SpeakerHow did it help? I'm just a mom. And that's one of the things that's so difficult. Because here we have all of these people who have PhDs and that are MDs that are seeing this disease every single day. And they have absolutely no idea. How cannabis helps. And I'm teaching them that. And I don't have a degree in any of those things. I'm not a scientist. I know nothing about cannabis other than it works for my son.

1:17:47SpeakerThat's why they're asking you those questions. They're gathering anecdotal evidence so that they can change it into real facts because that's sort of how things happen. Yeah, but the doctor called your son an anomaly. They should never call your son an anomaly. Is Herb Rosenfeld an anomaly? Are all the other thousands if not millions of people who get relief from cannabis were all anomalies? Give me a fucking break.

1:18:13SpeakerThey should have never, ever said that to you. That's horrible. And the crazy thing is, is that if they would just get on the Crohn's forum.com, there is a secret page that is for MMJ. And I found it. I just accidentally, I decided to do a search. It's not exactly secret anymore. Yeah, it's not secret now. Everybody who has Crohn's and Colitis can go to the Crohn's Forum.

1:18:42SpeakerLook up MMJ in the search bar and you're going to find about 300 pages of people talking about medical marijuana that have Crohn's and Colitis and it's helping. And so, you know, he was the first kid. But there are tons and tons of people out there that use cannabis for their Crohn's and Colitis and it's working for them. They just stay quiet because the doctors are going to make them feel like they're drug addicts or put them in some kind of drug addiction, you know, hospital.

1:19:19SpeakerAnd it's just, it's ridiculous. The medical dictatorship that we live in will Call them an anomaly, right? Yeah, yeah. Because they'll now support cannabis. So they will be the anomaly. The anomaly here are doctors who actually understand what the fuck they're doing. Excuse the language.

1:19:38BubblemanAnd we know out there. Hey, I wanted to take this moment to welcome Mowgli to the room.

1:19:44SpeakerHi, Mowgli.

1:19:45BubblemanHey. Mowgli is one of the people who started the Philo's Bioscience. I guess you are a molecular and evolutionary biologist?

1:19:58SpeakerYeah.

1:19:58BubblemanVery, very cool. Yeah. So we've learned, we've talked a little bit about the Phylos project here on Hash Church, but I definitely would love to, I mean, I love the, you know, the story of Colton and having Natasha come in and talk about these markers and the genetics and then you on the other side doing the genetic, you know, basically looking at cannabis and the genetics of cannabis.

1:20:23BubblemanYeah.

1:20:28SpeakerCan you guys hear me okay?

1:20:29BubblemanYeah, we can hear you great.

1:20:31SpeakerYes. It's so complicated listening to stories from medical patients, you know, because when you start looking at all the different compounds in cannabis, and then you start hearing about the complexities of all of these different Thank you so much.

1:21:21SpeakerNightmare. I mean, there's just so many factors, and we're going to need so much data to start to comb through it all. And right now, what we have are our patients giving us individual feedback, and it makes sense that they're asking Colton for all this information. I mean, that's all we have now because we're so far behind. It's like the most complicated medical setup that there could be, and we're 80 years behind in studying it.

1:21:50SpeakerMowgli, maybe you could very quickly and simply explain what it is you're doing with your project. Yeah, so the root of what we're doing is a basic population genetic study where we're taking DNA samples from cannabis. From all over the world and sequencing it and comparing how it's related so we can map out the relationships between all the different cannabis varieties and we can try to begin to tell the story about how it's evolved with humans, how it's traveled around the earth and And all of that really lays the foundation for figuring out what's going on inside the plant, what the genetic diversity of the plant is out there in the world, what's going on in the individual plants we have, and how those things are genetically controlled.

1:22:46SpeakerAnd ultimately, that's going to tell us how we Are supposed to interact with the plant or, you know, for a given patient population, what are the genes and the pathways and the secondary metabolites in the plant that we care about? And how do we start to hone in on this crazy combinatorial problem? You know, so THCV turned out not to be good for Colton. I mean, there's a mechanistic explanation for that, but there's so many compounds involved that, There's going to be other compounds in the plants that he's getting that are not optimal.

1:23:21SpeakerThere's going to be compounds in plants that he doesn't have access to that would be helping, but we just don't know which ones those are. So we just have a lot of work to do. So when you think about your statement before of single receptor and single compound, and you now move to the other end of the spectrum, which is nutrition, which is food, which contains many biologically active compounds.

1:23:46SpeakerAnd so when humans consume nutritional food, they're consuming many, many different compounds as the way nature intended it to be. So think of it more like a nutritional supplement and less like a medicine and you won't get so much hung up on that single ingredient, single pill inhibitor for that enzyme that backs up cholesterol biosynthesis in your liver that we have no idea what the long term ramifications is of stopping that pathway in the liver right there You know, Lipitor and all these other HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors, we don't know what the long-term implication of taking a single pill to basically lower your cholesterol.

1:24:31SpeakerYou lower your cholesterol with diet and exercise. So there's other ways to sort of approach, you know, health that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to take one pill with an active ingredient. Right? Yeah, no question. I mean, that's how we took medicine for 10,000 years, is that we were always taking a whole plant, which is this cocktail of all these different interrelated compounds that work synergistically together.

1:24:55SpeakerThat's how we always did medicine before. And that's how food works. But this is one of the reasons why, of all of the medical sciences, The science of nutrition is actually really backwards. You know, it's amazing that it's 2016 and we still can't agree on whether carbohydrates are good or not. I mean, there are just so many things going on in food that people are still, and that actually the data is so much worse than it should be because scientists have been reductionist for so long now and they want to study individual things.

1:25:26SpeakerAnd we don't have the toolkit to study huge assemblies of things interacting in complex ways. And I mean, that's going to be the next phase. We're going to have to figure out how to, Study things with lots and lots and lots and lots of variables. So I was talking with this woman yesterday who's been studying Ayurveda for a long time. And she does cannabis treatment for people who have Crohn's.

1:25:51SpeakerShe has Crohn's and people who have cancer. And I always like when I talk to people who are using cannabis medically in the context of either Chinese medicine or Ayurveda because Those are disciplines that have been around for thousands of years and they're dealing with all of these variables, thousands of different kinds of plants, every one of which has different varieties with thousands of different patient populations, but they've had thousands of years to figure out, to search the variable space and they've been optimizing what they do Oh, you know, they don't do one big study all at once, but they've done 4,000 years of studying it.

1:26:35SpeakerAnd so they've honed in on something that to me has way more data behind it than a lot of other things. And so to me, cannabis fits pretty nicely into those paradigms. And people who are used to those paradigms, I feel, are maybe they're just well able to prescribe it and figure out how to integrate it And when it's just dumped on the laps of Western scientists like me, it's hard, you know, it's hard to deal with all those variables.

1:27:11SpeakerSo what's the phylos role in teasing us apart? I mean, you guys are not focused on patients, you're focused on plants, right? Yeah, I mean, it's hard to not think about the medical side a lot. But yeah, so basically we have to leave that to other people, right? All we're really focused on is the plant genetics. And there's no way to get away from caring about what the different cannabinoids do.

1:27:41SpeakerBut yeah, so basically our goal is to figure out genetically what's happening in the cannabis plant, like an individual cannabis plant, and then what is the genetic diversity out there in the entire world. So not only what are all these secondary metabolism pathways, what are the genes that control what enzymes that create what small molecules, but then if you look along the axis of time, how have those all evolved?

1:28:07SpeakerAnd if you look across the entire population, what diversity is out there? And I mean, that's basically how you build up enough of a body of knowledge to turn the planet into the kind of target of medicine that you want it to be. Because

1:28:26SpeakerI mean, I don't want to get down on the way cannabis is now. It's amazing. But it's going to get a lot better. And it's going to get to the point where people have plants that are really their plants. That are really made for them. Or that they made for themselves. That have the right mixture for them. Because everybody is really different. So, yeah, but our job is just to figure out what the hell is going on with the plant.

1:28:51SpeakerI've always thought that each plant has its own DNA. And we have our own DNA and we have to find that match. And that's kind of, that's what you're talking about. You know, one of these days, you know, I, my husband always talks about potholes, which is kind of funny, but, you know, my road has 15 potholes and five of them are CBD potholes and, you know, the other five are other cannabinoids.

1:29:24SpeakerAnd I just have to find that one plant that covers all of those potholes. Now my road is going to be nice and clean. We try to find what works best for Colton. It's difficult because we're not doctors and we're not getting his blood tested and we can't find cannabinoid levels, which is one thing that I really love to see happen in the medical field and in the scientific field is to figure out how we can test for cannabinoid levels in people's blood.

1:29:57SpeakerAnd then we'll know what they're deficient and what they're not deficient. Yeah. That's so cool that you had already pictured it as this match between Colton's DNA and the DNA of the plant. Because that's exactly what it is. Yeah. It just kind of made sense to me. The medicines that he was taking weren't working. So something had to. He just... His DNA has Crohn's disease in it.

1:30:29SpeakerWe don't know where it came from.

1:30:33SpeakerNobody understands Crohn's disease. There's no cure for it. There's no history in our family of it. My brother has UC, but he was diagnosed six months before Colton was. So we're looking back at history and thinking, why do we have this? What's happening? And why is Colton's DNA and my brother's DNA totally different than everybody else's in the family? And why are the medicines that everybody else in the world are taking different?

1:31:04SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:31:25SpeakerWhy it was working and why it wasn't working. And cannabis was that link. And in a million years, I never thought that I would ever give my kid cannabis. But that was definitely the plant that worked for him. We're going to talk about why and what those connections are for everyone because I think everybody has those connections. Everyone eats food. This is a plant. This is a plant that you can actually eat and we can use it as food.

1:31:57SpeakerWe put it in our food. We eat edibles all the time. So why is this being looked at as a medicine and like I can't remember who said it but Like a vitamin or a supplement. Nutritional supplement. Yeah, it should be a nutritional supplement, not a medicine. We need it every single day. I think everybody needs it. It is a medicine. It's not a drug. There's a difference.

1:32:30SpeakerYeah. It's not a drug. It's a plant, you know. And everybody likes to, and I still, you know, I mix up my words a lot and I still call it a drug sometimes. But it is. Well, the drug is the notion, again, that when, if he gets high, I mean, basically what that means is that the CB1 receptors in the central nervous system are being activated by THC.

1:32:58SpeakerSo it's just an indication that the medicine's working. Yeah. Yeah, well, and that's what we just switched his medication and he ended up getting a different ratio. He got high and you're like, well, at least we know that it's working, you know, and that was, it's odd that you say that because that's exactly the mentality that we had was, okay, he's a little off, you know, he's laughing a lot and he's really happy and you can tell that he's a little high and you're like, well, at least it's working.

1:33:37SpeakerDoesn't sound so bad at all. No. As Marcus would say, your individual bioassay gives you a lot of information about, you know, where you are. And that's his bioassay. Yeah, I have no idea what a bioassay is. And I'm glad that someone out there does and that there are people doing that kind of research because, you know, I get questions all the time like, what is the mechanism?

1:34:06SpeakerAnd I'm like, I have no idea what a mechanism is. You know, and we need doctors and scientists to figure this stuff out because, you know, I'm to the point where I don't even care. It works. That's the only thing that I care about is that my kid is over there eating lunch or eating breakfast or eating something. Before that, he wasn't.

1:34:31BubblemanThat's his bioassay. That's him testing the cannabis product, feeling the effects, and that's what we call a bioassay. A bioassay is really like We each have the ability to do our own bioassays. Then you can go and send the information off and have people test things in a gas chromatograph or an HPLC or whatever it is. But the bioassay is ours. It's really like our ability to test this thing.

1:34:57BubblemanIt's like, how do you know it works? It's like, well, I rolled it up and I smoked it and then I felt different. It's like, okay, well, that's basically a bioassay. Or like you said, he's eating. Like, I know it's working because he's eating and that's the fact right there.

1:35:16SpeakerWe're living in a society where alcohol is not only condoned but legal and it's a destroyer of the body of the first order. But we can't have pot, but everybody can have alcohol. And what that says is the people, the elites, those that run things and make the real decisions understand. And that's really, really sad because

1:36:13SpeakerYou know, I get asked this question a lot. Would you rather your child smoke pot or drink alcohol? And I'm like, oh my God, it's like a no-brainer for me now.

1:36:25BubblemanIt's a full no-brainer considering they can die drinking alcohol.

1:36:28SpeakerRight, right. You know, and I'm like. Do you understand the question that you're actually asking? You know, you're asking me if would I rather put a poison in my son or any of my kids or would I rather put something in his body that Thank you so much for watching.

1:37:07SpeakerYou have to remember these people are coming from an entirely diametrically opposed viewpoint. They want to ask you questions based on the fact that what you're doing is probably toxic. And alcohol has been around for a long time, witch hazel and different kinds of things they use like that to rub on people. John, everybody knows that you can use alcohol in a responsible manner, whereas all use of drugs is abuse.

1:37:43BubblemanAnd I would just say once again, and I've mentioned it quite a few times, my mother spent about 30 years as the chief operator for 911 in Winnipeg, Manitoba. When I asked her what percentage of calls were alcohol related, her and my sister sort of went back and forth between 85 and 90%.

1:38:04BubblemanCan you imagine the cost of the, like, that's, that's like, that's insane how many, and that's from like, you know, women and children being abused by men, car accidents involved in death, like tons of different things where alcohol is like right at the top of the list, why that's even happening in the first place.

1:38:25SpeakerCan I throw out a thought, you know, that Dennis Perrone has been my friend, I've known him since 94. He came out and said publicly that the reason he used cannabis medically was to treat alcoholism. And I always respected that because I felt that I grew up around alcohol and I saw the damages. And it clearly, cannabis is clearly a much better solution to somebody that is prone to drink.

1:38:53SpeakerAnd it helps people. And why I'm saying this is because a lot of people that have been coming out against legalization have been talking about corporate cannabis being like the worst thing in the world that could ever happen. And I wanted to point out that in a sense, I feel like I'm an organic vegetarian. I don't eat broccoli out of a can, but I'm not going to lobby to make canned broccoli illegal because I know the benefits that it provides society to be able to have food that's inexpensive, And it's nourishing and it helps them.

1:39:25SpeakerAnd I think that if cannabis had, you know, dare I say it, if we had corporate cannabis in the way that we have corporate booze, I think society would be a much, much different place, especially when you start bringing up how many, you know, calls to 911 are alcohol related. You know, you put cannabis into the society, how many less people are going to drink? Todd, the two biggest contributors to anti-legalization efforts are the Catholic Church in every state and big pharmacy and alcohol producers.

1:39:58SpeakerThose three put more money towards keeping it illegal. Oh, and prison food companies. Prison food companies come in right behind alcohol producers. And all these people are giving tremendous amounts of money to keep it illegal. And if you look at every one of those companies and corporations, I might add, who are doing that, it's just terrible to even think about what's going on. They're stifling innovation. They're stifling understanding it further, what's going on, because they're stepping on it all the time, trying to keep it illegal.

1:40:37SpeakerAnd guess who's paying the bill? I mean, all those big companies got big because people are buying a lot of alcohol. And the Catholic Church, need I say, they've got their finger in more than pies. But anyway, all those things mount up to what's going on is the big struggle between dark and light. You know, religion has turned into the dark. Does this mean you're supporting Prop 64 now?

1:41:06SpeakerI'm not supporting anything. I don't stand on either side of that line, and I'm not even standing on the fence, so there's no... I'm just joking you. You know I am a Prop 64 supporter, and I was just trying to get you to say it. Well, I think it's a good idea that they're stopping arresting people. That's a bogus scenario. They keep telling us that it's okay.

1:41:29SpeakerYou know, it's like that song from Steppenwolf that some been telling lies so long, some believe they're true. And that these people don't have a right to do what they're doing, but good people stand by and let it happen. And that's how evil gets a hand up or a leg up on everybody. Thank you for joining us.

1:42:17SpeakerHow the rules are different. Can't use a bank. You got a stigma. You can't buy a gun. You can't give it to your kids because God knows it might have an effect on kids that we don't know about yet. And they know about all of it. I mean, how can a government deny any medical use for it at the same time that they've secured all the patents for medical use?

1:42:45SpeakerI mean, that's a dichotomy that hasn't been addressed because people like the DEA and so forth are allowed to express that as a fact. And word, it's a doublespeak again, you know? I mean, it's the most popular thing in the government. Yes, Todd, sorry, I'm done. You know, I wanted to ask Mowgli, you know, phylos, bioscience is something that's really interesting to us all, and I'd love you to take a minute to kind of explain to people how You know, you see it fitting into us better understanding not just cannabis, but the evolution of cannabis under prohibition.

1:43:20SpeakerSo, you want to talk about the history of the plant? I mean, you guys don't... Pre-prohibition and post-prohibition, because this is sort of what you're studying, isn't it? Yeah. Well, as Rob Clark has pointed out, The data that we have so far is getting close to telling us a lot about dispensary polyhybrids, but it is a long way from telling us what we want to know about the actual history of the plant.

1:43:56SpeakerSo the most interesting pieces we have, right, are these

1:44:06SpeakerYou know, pretty soon we'll have some ancient varieties. And we have a lot of samples from pharmacy bottles from the 1930s and the decades before that. And, you know, for us, they seem like a missing link. It's going really slow because we have to develop a custom DNA extraction technique for every single one of those weird black goos. They're all... Different kinds of residue that we found in the bottom of different bottles.

1:44:37SpeakerBut, I mean, the stuff that I want to know is, I mean, these are labeled cannabis indica or they're labeled cannabis americana. And so, you know, we should be able to figure out ultimately, you know, did the Spanish... You know, did cannabis evolve through Northern Africa and then reach Spain? And then we know that the conquistadors in the 1500s brought it over to South America. And we have made the assumption that the South American varieties, the land races from Colombia and Mexico and Panama, were probably related to those.

1:45:09SpeakerBut so then all of this stuff that was in every single pharmacy in dozens and dozens of different forms, and people were taking it for the same stuff that they're using cannabis for now, In the early 1900s. So did that evolve from the stuff that came over with the Spanish in the 1500s? Or maybe that was, maybe that came over in waves of Chinese immigration, bringing over Chinese, you know, high THC cultivars in the 1800s.

1:45:37SpeakerWe have no idea, but as soon as we can start. What's that? Kentucky Hemp is a Chinese hemp hybrid, I believe. So there's, you know, I think everything that's in North America has really been brought in from somewhere. It's been brought in from somewhere, but, you know, one possibility is that that stuff that was used in all the pharmacies back then was basically eradicated and that now all the polyhybrid stuff we have in the United States was from, you know... Modern breeding and collection of modern...

1:46:14SpeakerCollections of scenes. Yeah, from like the Brotherhood going to Thailand and Afghanistan and all of the stuff that came over in the 60s. But also we know that in the 50s, people were smoking lots of pot. But that was before the waves of immigration or the waves of transport from Thailand and Afghanistan. Where did that stuff come from? And did that stuff get folded into the new generations of breeding?

1:46:40SpeakerWe just don't know. I mean... It was coming from Mexico, either through Texas, California or New Orleans. The problem is how do you verify the provenance of those samples? Can I ask a question? Yeah. Given that they found a pot in a 3,800-year-old Egyptian tomb, and at the same time they found traces of cocaine in the mummies, pointing out the fact that the Egyptians must have somehow gotten cocaine from South America.

1:47:10SpeakerWait, does this mean the pot is the gateway drug? Say again? Everyone's. Anyway, the Egyptians had cocaine 3,800 years ago. The cocaine plant's not endemic to the Mideast, and it doesn't grow there. So they must have got it somewhere. And if they had pot in the same tomb where they had the cocaine, maybe that extends the how did they get this and where did it come from trail even further back.

1:47:38SpeakerI mean, the cocaine thing, I have no theory about. That makes no sense to me. They had two, not dummies, but mummies, excuse me, that they examined, and they had cocaine in their blood, or they had cocaine in their tissue. And they found a couple of small containers in the same place where those two mummies were that showed traces of it in little storage bottles. So that's where it came from.

1:48:13SpeakerWow. I didn't know about the cocaine thing, and that is truly inexplicable. But we know that people were using cannabis back then, and probably much longer back before that. I mean, it seems like pretty clear that the earliest use was about 10,000 years ago, that it was one of the first domesticated plants.

1:48:39SpeakerAnd all of the most ancient samples that we have access to now show various indications that it was being used for probably THC and not for other purposes, or that it was at least used for ritual or shamanic reasons. So you think it might have been used for the seeds as food, and then once when they were cooking it up, somebody got stoned? Right. It's fun to try to think of stories about how they first realized what they had stumbled upon.

1:49:10SpeakerI have no idea. I remember walking around in the woods and stumbling on a pot garden, and it must have been nearly the same feeling that the cavemen had when they stumbled. I mean, the cavemen probably didn't know to be excited. Is cannabis not indigenous to all countries? I mean, so... No, it was not found in America or South America, North America or South America.

1:49:39Etienne FontanYeah, I used to think it was part of Gondwanaland or Pangea originally because of how different places the world has been found in, but there's been no records found, as Sam said, in North or South America.

1:49:53SpeakerIt's now everywhere in the world, but it looks like humans brought it with them everywhere in the world. So we just brought it to every single corner of the planet. Yeah. We're still doing that. Go ahead, Bob. We're spreading it more prolifically now than they did back then, or at least I think. Maybe it was on every Egyptian boat going everywhere. And, you know, hard to say.

1:50:20SpeakerThe Chinese, I'm sure, were trading it and bringing it in the, Silk Road and Caravans because it was a valuable trade item and exchange item, not in the form of marijuana flowers, but hashish. All the plants used to carry, all the plants, all the boats used to carry seeds so that if your sails were destroyed, you could grow new sails, right? You could grow enough cannabis to make fun of it.

1:50:47SpeakerI love that story. That's so great. That is just ridiculous though. Apparently, in the 1300s, no sailors would go on a transatlantic voyage without hemp seeds, just in case. How do you grow back the ropes? How do you grow back the canvas? How do you grow back the oils that are responsible for the paints and varnishes? Even the stuff called oakum was what they stuffed in between the planks to make the boats.

1:51:11Etienne FontanRight. And what could grow it in as fast a time to get you seaworthy in a quick amount of time?

1:51:16SpeakerCan I throw this out there to you guys? Because I've always felt that what would Europe have looked like? Eurasia had looked like if you had just done what happened here, which was take away the cannabis plant. I mean, you know, we found a bunch of people indigenous to North America that were Wearing leather, living nomadically, carving on caves with rocks. They didn't have paper. They didn't have ropes.

1:51:36SpeakerThey didn't have the paints and varnishes that we had basically derived out of cannabis. And, you know, how do you all feel about how cannabis helped the cultural evolution of humanity in Eurasia? But, you know, before all that stuff that you just talked about, Todd, apparently there were some other people here who could build giant walls, melt the stones together, and other crazy things that we have no way of understanding either.

1:52:04SpeakerSo, you gotta, some things are just in the category of we're missing too much information. Well, we're not missing information in this respect. We know that they had cannabis in Eurasia, and things we take for granted today, like the cloth on my back, The paper on my bookshelf. These are things that all derived initially out of cannabis. I mean, they were not using cotton sailcloth to sail across the Atlantic.

1:52:28SpeakerThey were using real canvas. They were not using nylon ropes before, you know, the mid-20th century. They were using hemp. Yeah, but when Rob comes back from his recent trip, you'll see that there's a lot of work that goes into that, especially if you're producing it for yourself. Right? Because he's doing that over in Turkey. Rob is watching right now. He said he might come on in a little bit.

1:52:51SpeakerYeah, it's a lot of work. So, yeah, I don't know. I question whether we haven't moved past the need for hemp in some of the ways that we used to use it. You know, we have nylon ropes and stuff. It's so much cheaper and faster to go down and get nylon rope than to sow a crop and ret the, you know, ret Brett the fibers off the, the basket, you know, and do all that work.

1:53:21SpeakerOur, our, our, our planet. I mean, what's nylon made from? You know, there's, there's a lot of things that hemp could actually, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:53:51SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

1:54:14SpeakerRandolph Hurst changed the industry by not wanting to use hemp and back to newspaper. He had a big newspaper empire. And so he had a great deal to do with not using hemp anymore and using trees instead. The thing is we're going to have to see how the economics go with this. So, I mean, right now they're planting thousands of acres of hemp in Kentucky, but those farmers in Kentucky They're not growing it for fiber.

1:54:45SpeakerThey know full well that the money that they can make is... CBD. Yeah, and not only that, but they're also pretty hip to the fact that ultimately they're going to be growing for other cannabinoids too, and they're waiting for plants that produce other cannabinoids to come down the line. Yeah, but when that happens, it's not going to be hemp. They're going to regulate it. They'll change the regulations like they have in Europe.

1:55:09SpeakerAnd they'll get rid of it. Hemp is not the way to produce cannabinoids. You want to be producing drug cannabis hybrids. Yeah, but they're already getting them. Already in Kentucky, there are farms that are getting hold of ACDC-like cultivars. It's happening. Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen the pictures. The Stanley Brothers were there a few years ago growing that big circle crop.

1:55:34SpeakerBut yeah, that was, like I said, it was a drug variety. I bet you they'll tighten up on all that. I really do. Yeah. Dime will get you a dollar that right where they're growing all the CBD, out in the middle of the field somewhere, there's some potent THC flowers. They just hang a sign out there that says these are CBD plants. And, you know, our society is so conditioned.

1:55:58SpeakerYou look at a sign and you obey. And that's the way it goes. I mean, once you look at all the plants across the board, the molecule stays the same across the board. So, I mean, granted, CBD is great and everybody needs it, but everyone needs THC also and maybe CBN or CBG. Wait a minute. You're saying everybody needs CBD? I don't. I don't want it. I don't like it.

1:56:33SpeakerHe's joking, too, though. But you know what? I'm really glad that the hemp cultivators have just another... Look, we need hemp cultivation on many respects, you know? I mean, our own government was urging farmers to look at using hemp instead of trees back in, you know, the beginning of the 20th century with Bolton 404. So it's not crazy hippie thought to think we should be growing hemp instead of cutting down 20-year-old trees for the same amount of paper.

1:57:01SpeakerIt's really actually pretty logical. But I'm glad that the hemp producers are getting yet another market that they can move into because that will bring hemp back into this country. Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:57:43SpeakerThere's others, but that we consume on a regular basis. Most vegetarians have to consider that they're getting all the amino acids. And plant seeds such as hemp seed is a very interesting nutrient source. And then we can also look at the hemp seed oil. It's also fabulously nutritious. It contains a really nice ratio of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids. And it also contains a rare anti-inflammatory acid called gamma-linolenic.

1:58:13SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:58:41SpeakerAll of these plant fatty acids is a phenomenal food source. Wendy, do you guys consume flaxseed oil and flaxseed protein for part of Colton's diet? I don't know if Colton's still here. Yeah, he's back. I'm right here. Actually, no, which is kind of wacko when it comes to Colton's diet is because he has a hard time with a lot of food, and when he was a baby, He couldn't take breast milk.

1:59:14SpeakerHe couldn't take regular formula. He had to take some of this nasty stuff called Nutramigen, which is like a chemical. And he doesn't eat vegetables. Or mini fruit. Or mini fruit because in his body, he has this situation where, Fructose attacks his Crohn's disease and makes it worse. So that's when we get into this whole situation with the Monsanto and all of the GMOs and things like that.

1:59:49SpeakerWhat have they done to my child? There's a fantastic book that you should really pick up. It's called Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill by Dr. Udo Erasmus. And it has a whole chapter devoted to hemp seed foods. And ironically, you shouldn't be using flax oil. Flax oil has linoleic and linoleic oils in the wrong proportions, and you can actually get an EFA deficiency using flax oil.

2:00:18SpeakerHemp seed oil, on the other hand, is a perfectly balanced food. And it's, by definition, a superfood, meaning that it has the most amount of proteins, the most amount of EFAs, a proportional amount of vitamins and minerals in every calorie. So it's something that you can start putting in his body because anything that can help your immune system, it's like this in a sense. You wouldn't drive your car through a desert without radiator fluid in the radiator or oil in the engine.

2:00:49SpeakerAnd a lot of times we're driving our bodies without the proper nutrition we need to operate correctly. And an easy way you can check that is to start supplementing with hemp foods. And an interesting with hemp seed oil also is you can put it on topically so it's really good for your skin. So you can use it to help with all kinds of things with just dry skin or if you have any kind of wound healing.

2:01:17SpeakerThere's even some evidence that because of its anti-inflammatory properties that it can be helpful for acne and other inflammatory skin conditions. So hemp seed oil is an amazing food source and There's some great reviews. There's also really great vitamins and other nutrients in the fats and in the plants. I can actually put up some links below where people have done some really nice reviews and just analysis of all the different compounds to get you excited about eating hemp seed oil and hemp seed because once you start liking it, it's like any other food.

2:01:53SpeakerLike it tastes, some people find like the hemp seed oil, I mean it's, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:02:28SpeakerWell, should be freely available. I can supply you with absolutely golden hemp seed oil with no green in it whatsoever.

2:02:36BubblemanYeah, and a much higher protein powder isolate as well.

2:02:41SpeakerI would love that. I would love that. Please, I will give you my address. You send me a five pound bucket of hulled seeds and I'll change it into protein isolate and oil for you. I'll send you one from my friend's farm.

2:02:59SpeakerBut no, that's awesome.

2:03:04SpeakerI think you'll find that the stuff with no green in it has, it tastes more like fresh walnut. It's delicious to put on things. And the pochi in isolate, at that point in time, when you get them back, they'll still be whole. They won't be broken up or powderized or anything. But you can then easily just press on a whole bunch of them and they'll change right into flour.

2:03:27SpeakerBut delicious stuff. I made it a number of times. I made it for Mark once upon a time. So when are you going to make that available commercially, you guys? So everyone can access it.

2:03:39BubblemanYou should mention that because I contacted Manitoba Harvest and I told them about this process like probably seven years ago when Indra first showed it to me. And they were just silent. And then I called the company that bought them. Thank you for joining us.

2:04:10BubblemanThank you for watching.

2:04:29SpeakerAnd especially if you can improve the flavor, because that's a major drawback to using the hemp seed protein right now, and the hemp seed oil is the flavor. I personally like it. I don't mind it. I even, when I use it, I use hemp seed oil in all of the skincare products I make. And I, instead of trying to mask it or cover up the aroma, I actually, oh, nice, I actually add things to make it smell better and complement it.

2:04:57SpeakerAnd it's beautiful. And so... If we can improve how, even like the nutritional profile of it, especially the aroma, especially the way people even just taste it and perceive it, because it's such a fabulous nutrient-packed source, that'd be really exciting. When you eat seeds, you find out that many different varieties do taste quite different. Not only from age, but just intrinsically different. The same with the oil.

2:05:29SpeakerEveryone tastes different. And of course, any oil that's from old seeds will be bad tasting, of course. By the way, Natasha, sitting in the middle of Kansas, I have a We have an extraction unit which can extract 2,500 kilos at a whack. It takes about an hour, hour and 20 minutes. So if you want a whole bunch of oil and protein isolate that you can turn around the market, I'm sure we can work something out.

2:06:00SpeakerIt's quite an efficient unit. In fact, I sent Mark some pictures. I saw the pictures.

2:06:06BubblemanI was just like, first, I wanted to be the photographer so I could take better pictures. But secondly, I also just very badly wanted to be able to share them because that's just ridiculous.

2:06:18SpeakerAnd John, when you do that, do you have to prepare the seed or can you do it to whole, uncrushed seed? Well, usually the best way to do it, Sam, is with hulled seeds. My process is so selective in getting oils, if you extract it with the hulls present, you get a certain amount of tannic acid that's present in the hulls, and it can detract from the taste of the oil, or at least in my opinion anyway.

2:06:47SpeakerSo hulled seeds produce about 10 or 12 points, was it, Mark, above oil? Thank you so much for joining us.

2:07:10BubblemanThank you for watching.

2:07:32BubblemanWhat John did was he completely de-fatted, de-hulled seeds so the oil was like obviously never heated because it was like glowing like gold like the sun. And then like he said the hulls, the de-hulled seeds is perfectly intact looking like little seed embryos except they are now white. And he gets all of the oil out. And because he gets all the oil out, the shelf life of the protein powder isolate is from like another planet.

2:08:00BubblemanLike guaranteed, that claim alone would squash competition because they're not as efficient at getting the oil out of the protein powder isolate. And that's what makes it go bad in the end.

2:08:11SpeakerSame thing, Mark, for the oil. The shelf life for the oil is increased by three or 400% because there's no chlorophyll in it. And so you're not dealing with chlorophyll degrading in the bottle from sunlight or just age alone. And so the oil, I left purposely a bottle with the cap off on the shelf in the sun for two years. And then we tested it two years later.

2:08:39SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:09:04BubblemanAll I know is this. You told me that they'll say to you at the lab, they'll never have seen numbers this high. And I said, oh, okay, whatever. And then I tested it at three different labs in British Columbia, the oil and the protein powder isolate, and two of those labs tested for hemp companies. And they both said, we've never seen numbers like this before. So that's how I knew initially that you were the real deal back in the day before I got to You know, talk too much or meet you at all.

2:09:36BubblemanJust through that experience, I was like, that was incredible. That oil was incredible. And you know, when I showed those guys, I think it just made them really nervous, even though I thought it was a great business thing and that they would love it and want to implement it. But people just get freaked out when you show them something they don't think should or does exist.

2:09:57SpeakerYeah, I mean, I've, you know, over the years extracting for Roberta, I got that experience all the time. I extracted turmeric and the wisdom in the industry, when you extract turmeric, you can either get the oil or you can get the curcumins, but you can't get both. And when I extracted it, I got 100% yield of both. The oil was on top and the very thick curcumins were on the bottom.

2:10:23SpeakerAnd if you took a little of each and put it in a test tube and heated it up, It changed into normal turmeric extract. And the same thing with German chamomile. It was traditionally always blue. And when I extracted it, there was two separate fractions, a very light watery yellow on top and a very heavy cream one on the bottom. And when you combined them in a test tube and heated them, they turned blue.

2:10:50SpeakerAnd so the thing that was in the chamomile that was the item that would put you to sleep a little bit was in the light yellow stuff above. And so the company was very interested in that. And there's been a number of different botanical extractions I've made over the years that broke completely with The wisdom and theoretical yields. We did Otto Rose. They sent a 747 from Romania, cooled in a container full of Otto Rose.

2:11:24SpeakerAnd the normal yield was 0.01%, and we got 2.7%, so it was a real revolution.

2:11:33SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

2:11:53SpeakerThe process and being able to control exactly how the process works, the temperature and so forth. And so, Natasha, I'll do a five gallon bucket of seeds for you if you like it and you want to get crazy with it. I've got the 2,500 kilo extractor and it'd be easy enough to put it to work for you as well. That would give you the catch chamber. I think, what was the oil mark?

2:12:16SpeakerWas it 50% or something like that or yield on seeds? I forgot.

2:12:22BubblemanYeah, you know, I don't remember what your yield was on the oil, but it was good. It was pretty impressive for what you extracted.

2:12:30SpeakerIt was stellar yield as far as I could tell, they told me. But anyway, you can imagine 2,500 kilos of seeds would give you enough material for salves and rubs and so forth for a long time. And you'd have the very best oil and protein isolate on the planet available. So why is this extraction thing in the middle of Kansas? Why is it what? In the middle of Kansas?

2:12:54SpeakerIn the middle of Kansas. Of all states in the world. Because my partners are Swiss and they owned 10,000 acres there and a farm. And the original idea of this all was I started to extract corn oil and the first oil they gave us was field corn because they thought they were going to play a game with us and give us crappy corn to extract and then I extracted the field corn and they sent it to the laboratory and the oil tested of higher quality than their very best other corn grown for oil and so they got quite disturbed about that and the reason they gave me later was They're resistant to change because if they suddenly made this really high quality oil available, then all the rest of the stuff that was in the system would become unsellable and they'd have to always have this quality.

2:13:51SpeakerThey were happy with the hexane extracted oil because of the economics of the situation with using hexane. And so, you know, that's what was going on. And it started out in Kansas. It's been there for 10 years. And so, obviously, times have changed. And we are looking at Colorado. Yeah, we're looking at all the states because it's really and truly the only really safe system that there is.

2:14:19SpeakerIt's the only one that is entirely controllable where you can decide what fractions you want to extract. Yeah, I mean, it just started out there, you know.

2:14:32BubblemanI think the incredible aspect of it right now is that you can defat the hemp, create the protein powder isolate, and then also extract all of the cannabinoids and terpenes off of the plants as well, which is pretty incredible to be able to offer that in one unit. Hey, welcome, Tony.

2:14:53SpeakerI see Tony. Maverick's going to split in like 10 minutes. I was hoping that he'd show us the galaxy and give us a breakdown on that.

2:15:00BubblemanI would love to.

2:15:01SpeakerI'm going to make room for Rob Clark. He's trying to join right now.

2:15:08SpeakerYo, Ryan.

2:15:11SpeakerYeah. Let's skip the galaxy for now. Everybody can look at the galaxy whenever they want. Okay. Let's talk about patents. Okay. All right.

2:15:31SpeakerWell, let's do it. Because despite the fact that you guys like to talk about it, nobody understands how they work still. And that's not true. Yeah, that's not true. I'm included. No, you guys, I'm not saying you guys don't understand. The people in the world don't understand. You're true. Yeah.

2:15:56SpeakerWe don't understand. Go ahead and talk about patents. Right. So look, I mean, one point of all this work, right, is that we have all this data. And it's just been an open question for people, what you can do with that data. And people are really nervous about the data because they think that it gives people some kind of power over their plants. And I mean, obviously we want people to submit as much stuff as they can to the galaxy.

2:16:34SpeakerAnd one piece of nervousness that people have, is that Rob? Yeah, that's Rob. You're in. Hey, Rob.

2:16:47BubblemanWelcome, Rob. Welcome, Tony.

2:16:52SpeakerWe're talking about patents. So go ahead.

2:16:59SpeakerSo we want people to submit samples, right? And when they do that, it means that then we have some of their DNA data. Right. And that makes people nervous, right? I guess so. Why does it make people nervous? What people don't realize is that you can't do a damn thing with that data. You can't do anything with it. The only thing you can do with it, we hope, is make it a little harder for people to patent stuff.

2:17:28SpeakerYeah, I mean, gene patents are pretty much out of the deal. So what are you preventing people from patenting? A single clone? So these patents that were granted already involved what the USPTO claimed was, they claimed it was a thorough search for prior art. But we know that they missed a lot of things. And if there's a real database of prior art, They're going to have to look through it, and it's going to make it harder for people to get cannabis patents.

2:18:03SpeakerWell, what do you think they missed? Why would you patent cannabis? What's the invention? What's the invention that you're patenting?

2:18:16SpeakerWhere is there an inventive step in cannabis that you have to patent it? There's all sorts of them, Mark. If you understood the chemical pathway, essentially exploiting mutations in the biosynthesis pathway and then manipulating them together like breeding a series of biochemical mutations, you can create hemotypes that aren't found in nature. So for sure that is patentable. Yeah, there's no question. I think it still blows people's minds that you can get patents on plants.

2:18:48SpeakerBut you've been able to get... Yeah, but why would you want to patent that? How would you enforce that patent? Well, you can stop people... If you had, for example, a patent that granted you a specific chemotype that nobody else had or has never seen on the market, and you patented it and were granted the patent, you can stop other people from creating and selling it.

2:19:10SpeakerSo... Why? What do you mean? That's what big business does. They want to invent stuff and then create situations where nobody has it and they can profit from it. Look, the breeding, the plant breeding industry has been supported by the United States government granting one kind or another of intellectual property protection since the 1930s. In the 1930s when the seed industry started, they started making it so that you could protect your new varieties, and they thought it would support innovation in plant breeding.

2:19:42SpeakerAnd at times it has supported innovation in plant breeding, and at times it's also been a real... Negative force on innovation. I mean, patents can spur innovation or they can be really broad and really restrictive, in which case they make it really hard to innovate. And I would argue that's what's happening right now or what's about to happen. They make it hard to innovate. But why? How do you know that the people making the patents aren't doing that innovation?

2:20:16SpeakerThey certainly make it hard for anyone else to innovate. They make it hard for anybody else to do the same innovations that are patented. No, but when you, look, I don't want to touch any touchy subjects here, even though you might want me to.

2:20:34BubblemanTouch away!

2:20:39SpeakerListen, sometimes when patents cover just something that an inventor made, That's a narrow specific patent over something that was created. But really broad patents like utility patents cover entire areas that the inventor did not make. They cover an entire range. And so the utility patents that were granted for cannabis cover massive chemotypical ranges. And they technically make it impossible for other breeders to innovate in those areas.

2:21:08SpeakerThe office right now is basically limiting you on the enabling examples in your case. So having broad coverage, especially in therapeutic areas, there has to be standard operating art in that area to say that if you knock out that enzyme or you inhibit that, Yeah, you can certainly see downstream effects in these therapeutic areas, and you can get granted those therapeutic areas, but right now, utility patents, especially on active ingredients, are basically limited on the enabling examples that you have in your case.

2:21:42SpeakerThat's the current trend. But that's not totally true with the utility plant patents. I'm talking about composition of matter, so I'm talking about the actual molecules that are actually biologically active. I don't know how this covers plant variety type. Plant variety type patents are very difficult to enforce. Try to do it on any other plants other than cannabis. Good luck. I think that what you're saying is absolutely valid, Mowgli, but I would tend to think, again, that it becomes a very, very difficult patent.

2:22:18SpeakerPatent to enforce. Plant variety types are enforced in other ways other than patents. Can I ask a question? Can I ask you, Mowgli, in the relation of using this as an example of how it's a problem with GMOs and organic farms coexisting, you have a problem with cross-pollination and you have a problem with contamination from outside sources. So if your organic farm Get contaminated with this patented GMO crop next door or down the street, then they can come over, suspect that some of their genetics are in your crop, even though it was natural contamination via wind or whatever, and they can actually take action against you.

2:23:01SpeakerIs that what you mean by stifling innovation when you have these broad patents on plants that can cross-pollinate into their neighbor's yard? Is that a valid example? That's just one really intense example. I mean, that case where Monsanto sued these farmers who didn't even intend to grow the Monsanto GMOs in their yard, and they won the case? I mean, that's so fucking crazy that that happened. But...

2:23:31SpeakerI mean, that is one very sort of extreme example. I mean, and the fact that you can get patents on genetically modified plants, that's totally outside of anything that we're talking about. I mean, in all of patent law, there's... You know, in their structure, it makes a lot of sense that you can patent GMO modifications. You can no longer patent naturally occurring genes, but you can absolutely patent man-made ones.

2:24:03SpeakerWhat we're more concerned about is patents that just cover plants that are made through natural breeding processes. And there are three kinds of plant IP protection. Two of them are limited, and they cover one plant variety that you actually made through natural breeding processes. And the other one, the utility patent covers this huge range of variation. And so it makes it so it's not about whether or not pollen blows into someone's yard.

2:24:32SpeakerIt's about if you cover this, you know, pretty soon there'll be a patent that covers all cannabis plants that make more than an insignificant amount of CBDV and THCV and CBC. And it means that breeders can't work on those things anymore. I don't think it does. I think there's already, some of these varieties already exist. The public domain shows that there is already a whole bunch of things that are in the public domain.

2:25:04SpeakerAnd so I think I see these patents as people staking claims and where the boundaries of those claims really lie is a matter for the courts. It's a game that's played by people with lots of money. This is why Apple and Samsung go back and forth to the tune of hundreds of millions, if not billions. That's the whole problem with this, Ryan, is that it's a game that the thousands of breeders who have created so much diversity and should be continuing to create diversity, they can't play that game.

2:25:41SpeakerThat's why I say...

2:25:46SpeakerSo right now the software industry is spending more money litigating over patents than they make from having patents. So there's just certain kinds of IP protection that are not good for industries. Yeah, those utility patents, they stake a claim. The USPTO does intend for the courts to let people fight it out. They have a presumption that patent applications are valid and they just let people battle it out in the courts.

2:26:14SpeakerBut once things reach the price level that utility patent applications cost and the price level that litigating over one of those costs It's just, if I was a little breeder and I didn't have a dime and I wanted to work on a plant that was a one-to-one plant without mercy, I'd be scared to work on that plant.

2:26:37SpeakerWell, can I ask you this? Why would you have to reinvent the wheel though? Isn't that the whole point of patents? That like the guy that invents it gets to reap the reward of the patent. But did he invent it, Brian? The reality is, is we're working off of the shoulders of other people. When you're taking something that might have skunk one in its lineage, did he invent anything or did he use some of the work of Sam the Skunk Man to get where he was going in his own freedom?

2:27:01SpeakerAnd aren't we all doing that? But Todd, look, that's, but patent law takes that explicitly into account. They're like, basically they're like, you know, whether you like this or not, they're like, yes, you didn't do shit except add the last bell and whistle on this thing that thousands of people before you worked on. And they don't care about that. They're like, you added the last bell. Now you get the patent.

2:27:23SpeakerThey're totally fine with that. There's no change in that. Look, we're talking about a specific patent, you know, and it's defined quite clearly what the claims are. So, if those didn't exist on the market, aren't they then inventions? Well, we have evidence of prior art, Ryan. What's that? What's the invention? What's the invention? And to somebody suitably skilled in the prior art, you can take what's already known, put that together, and there is no inventive step.

2:28:02SpeakerThere's no invention. And if there's no invention, there shouldn't be a patent. And if you think you have an invention, you should keep it as a trade secret. A trade secret, just like the recipe to make Coca-Cola, right? The most rewarding sugar water product on the planet. It's a trade secret. You won't find it in a patent.

2:28:26SpeakerPatents, when somebody writes a patent, like for instance this guy that wrote this Kahn-Mansur extract guy, there's nothing new in his patent. And the prior art, he published in 2014 and I published in 2009. And my guy looked at it and said there's nothing new or innovative in it. And you got yours as a worldwide patent and he got his as a local one. And that actually the broad claims that he makes are invalid because he hasn't changed anything.

2:29:03SpeakerCan I bring this up though? There's a night and day difference between patenting a mechanism or an invention and what we're talking about, which is patenting. The natural evolution of a plant as it moves through breeder's hands. So the invention isn't an invention. It's just, it's another sunflower that got mixed with another sunflower that happens to be in the possession of XYZ at the time of the patent being applied for.

2:29:29SpeakerAnd that is very different from you coming up with an invention and actually inventing something that we're all going to use and that is great. You know, this is, we're talking about a plant. And I think it's apples and oranges when you start comparing You know, intellectual property that was, you know, an intellectual poof of an idea that someone then turned into a machine and then patented rightfully so.

2:29:50SpeakerAnd a plant that is just moving through breeders' hands. I've had a lot of plants in my hands. And it's hard for me to think that because I mix, you know, put the last bell and whistle on it, I'm going to take that to the patent office and I'm going to, on the backs of everyone that's ever had the plant before me, That's not breeding anymore. Because that's what we're saying, right, Ryan?

2:30:09SpeakerNo, we're not. You're talking about, you're talking about like, that's not breeding. Like, just taking one plant and making one cross is not, that's not what breeding is. That's not, Creating a variety. I agree with that. But that's all the industry needs, right? Right, Mowgli? They just need someone to put one bell and whistle on top of everyone else's work and then say, boom, this is mine.

2:30:35SpeakerBut listen, a real breeding program Thanks for watching.

2:31:00SpeakerGoing to continue to patent the work of real breeding programs. And the truth is that people probably won't invest much money in them if they can't patent them. My problem is that I have no issue if someone makes a plant that's truly new and they spent years and years making it that has, let's say, 10% CVC on a very specific terpene background with a very specific lineage and they made that plant and they want to get plant Thank you for watching.

2:31:56SpeakerBut Ryan, it's just a theoretical question. We have 107 cannabinoids to go through. Every time someone makes a plant with a new cannabinoid above 1%, I don't think they should get a patent on the entire category. People should be able to patent the thing they made at most. They shouldn't be able to patent a category. But that's how those patents work. If there's a, if it's, there has to be a submission, right?

2:32:19SpeakerThere's usually a seed submission or if it's a clonal variety that like they're a cultivar, Then they have to make the plant available so that other people can investigate it and prove that and show that it is what they claim it to be.

2:32:34SpeakerYou're absolutely right that that's how those patents work. Plant utility patents let you cover entire broad areas, categories that cover many plants that the breeder actually didn't make. They do work like that. But I think it sucks and I think we can do something about it by providing a lot of prior art, releasing it into the public domain, and

2:33:02SpeakerThis is the question that none of the geneticists have been able to say, is how can that DNA data that you guys are generating at that time do anything other than prove that it's just a clone that existed at that point in time? Like, it wouldn't even, it wouldn't impact the, how would that impact the prior art? Because it doesn't show any chemotype. It doesn't show any lineage or anything like that.

2:33:26SpeakerSo let me answer that. I've got to leave in like 90 seconds. Let me answer that question. Okay. First of all, unfortunately, you're...

2:33:41BubblemanHe froze out. Oh, not right now.

2:33:44SpeakerOh, my God.

2:33:46BubblemanThat was incredible. Unfortunately, he froze out.

2:33:51BubblemanThat 90 seconds went by wicked fast. Rob, can you finish this sentence, please?

2:33:56SpeakerThat seemed to be some... How are you, Rob? Some anomaly in the time warp continuum thing. But whatever. Melody had a lot to say. I was loving it. It's all good. Yeah, we got to have Mowgli back. He's a great contributor. And let's have more of Mowgli and more of Chimera giving him shit. This is all good. It's all what stimulates conversation in the realm that we're in.

2:34:39SpeakerI'm just an observer tonight. And much credit to this whole hemp seed oil thing. There's so much information there. Come on, you guys. I'm watching. That's incredible. You know, there's this whole lot of stuff going on there. This is killer. So bring it up. Much good.

2:35:06SpeakerWhen you're talking about patents, I mean, a lot of people are trying to patent like specific profiles. Is that, I mean, like, I don't know how many people have come up to us and said, oh, you need to make an oil for Colton and name it after Colton and patent it. And I'm like, why? You know, I just, I don't want to do that. That's just too much work.

2:35:28SpeakerBut is that the issue here is that people are coming out and making these items, these oils. They have a specific profile. And they're patenting them so they can control the market.

2:35:49BubblemanGenerally, that's pretty accurate. And also take claim for the magic that is cannabinoids, feeding one's endocannabinoid system with their extremely special IP and special way of actually doing it, which is also a big part of it.

2:36:08SpeakerAnybody can make Colton's Medicine in their house. That's exactly why it's not patentable. That's why it's a non-issue. That's exactly correct.

2:36:26SpeakerIt's open art. There's no invention. It's obvious. It's already known. If you try to patent something like that and you do get a patent, it can be easily invalidated in an infringement case. So a patent is only as good as it'll hold up in an infringement case against it. And if there's a lot of prior art that already says that cannabis is effective for this disease or this disease or this ratio is effective here, that's prior art.

2:36:53SpeakerYou can't claim that as an invention because It's already known. That's why I said it has to be an invention. There has to be something new. There has to be the aha moment, the eureka moment where you try something and all the facts said that it should go like this, but surprisingly you find it goes like this. That's an invention.

2:37:15BubblemanExcept the one part that I'm not telling people about is when they actually end up in court where all those rules go right out the door and now it's in court. And the court rules, if you've ever actually been in court, well they happen more outside in the hallways than they do in the actual chamber where the judge and the prosecutor and the defense attorney are. And so that's another aspect of patent law that is even more terrifying because you can think you know everything about it, Right up until you end up in court and then it's kind of like in a judge's hand and it becomes...

2:37:46BubblemanI spent almost eight years gearing up and getting into that situation and I can say that it is... It is no fun. If you got to use someone's technology, my gosh, and it's really their technology, just lease the fucking thing. It's way worth better than paying these lawyers this insane amount of money to just keep from paying someone for their intellectual property or for, you know, especially something that's a method, a process, if you will.

2:38:18SpeakerI absolutely agree with you. And as the foundational breeder of skunk number one, which is in every genetic in the universe, everybody, it's time to pay up.

2:38:30BubblemanYep, you guys all owe Skunk Man Sam. I've already put my 10 grand in his account, so if you guys want to get his information from me, feel free to contact me.

2:38:40SpeakerI hope everybody had a lot of fun with it, and I don't give a shit.

2:38:45BubblemanWell, you can still send the money to my account.

2:38:51SpeakerThey'll take it seriously. Be careful. Be careful. It'll become a video blip and your name will be right next to George Soros' like mine in about two seconds. And Monsanto. Aaron Monsanto, yeah. I want to be the Howard Trump of cannabis. I'm just going to come up and grab you by your nuggies. Jesus. Oh my gosh. Welcome back, Mowgli. Grab him by the dick. I'm back. Oh, please finish your sentence, please.

2:39:26SpeakerThat sucked. The internet went down. I was just going to check out. I was really just going to check out. Where was that? Unfortunately. Come on, bro, bring it up. Don't worry, Rob. I was about to say something really important. What was it? You went off at the word unfortunately.

2:39:46BubblemanUnfortunately.

2:39:49SpeakerThat was like 10 minutes ago. We've been talking nonstop since too. Did you guys work out anything important?

2:40:00SpeakerOh yeah, I remember. Ryan asked me what the hell use the genetic data is as prior art that can block patents. That's what happened. Correct. So the truth is, now Ryan, is Ryan gone? The truth is that what we really need in the database that we're, so we're collecting this database of prior art Through a website called the Open Cannabis Project, we have five different genomics groups that are donating genomic data The service prior art.

2:40:33SpeakerAnd the truth is that Ryan has a really good point. What we really need is chemotype data because these patents are being granted on the basis of chemical test data. What we really need is for all the labs to start donating their chemotype data so we have a huge database of what plants are out there in that sense. The DNA data is not as useful as I wish it was.

2:40:53SpeakerAnd I hate to admit that, but it's not. Because right now they're not requiring DNA data in patent submissions. It will be useful for post-grant review challenges. It will be useful for inter partes review patent challenges. It'll be absolutely critical when we start to try to fight these patents. But until the patent office starts asking for DNA sequence data as part of the application, searching and finding the DNA sequence data that we have And having that be effective prior art that blocks patents won't really happen.

2:41:32SpeakerWe need chemical data added to it. So within the next 10 years, that database is going to become really valuable. It'll be able to back a lot of challenges to patents. We found out that if you can prove that a plant that exists now has a chemical characteristic that Would have blocked a patent. Even if that chemical test data wasn't available back then, you could prove that it's the same plant.

2:42:00SpeakerIt can work as prior art. And there's a lot of different ways to challenge these patents. And a lot of them do have to do with enablement, things like that. So anyway, Ryan's right. We need to collect all this data, but for the next few years, it's going to be the chemotype data that's a little bit more important than the genetic data. The genetic data really doesn't let you do much.

2:42:23SpeakerYou can't get a patent with a plant. If you have DNA data, you can't take ownership. You can't grow the plant. It doesn't let you do anything. So publishing all of our DNA data was a pretty easy thing to do. If you have information, though, on genes that code for particular enzymes, so the synthases, for example, or just any of the functional aspects of the genomics of the plant, I mean, this could be extremely useful, can it?

2:42:50SpeakerNo, not at this point, to be honest. What is really needed is Like Mowgli's saying, you need the profiles of the terpenes, the cannabinoids, the flavonoids, any other secondary metabolites you're looking at. If you have that profile coupled with the DNA, then you're starting to make steps. Yeah, but also the DNA that we're accepting... You're starting to make a real roadmap out of a bunch of crazy data.

2:43:23SpeakerThat's when it all comes together. You can make something that goes forward and allows you to understand different genes and different outcomes and what everybody thinks we have already, but we don't. That's right. Also, when we get samples for the galaxy, we're looking at a bunch of different mutations that help us figure out how those plants are related to other plants. But none of those are tied to any of the synthases.

2:43:51SpeakerNone of them are in any of the pathways. They're just random point mutations that we sequence because we know that they help us figure out how the plants are related. It's actually not a sequence data for each plant at all. Right, but wouldn't it be useful when we actually have that data in hand and we could actually look at induced stress responses within the plant to understand what genes are turned on under stress situations, what genes are turned on in different growing situations that might lead to, again, a different chemo output in the plant itself.

2:44:26SpeakerHell yeah. Yeah, of course. We just need to, in order to do those studies,

2:44:33SpeakerLike Sam said, you need trait data and you need a lot more DNA data than we're actually generating now for each sample. But once we can start doing a lot more sequencing and pulling in a lot of trait data, yeah, then the sky is the limit. We're just not doing that now. Like what we have basically is a DNA barcode that individually identifies a plant. Well, the synthase has been now what heterologously expressed in yeast, and so they've actually now put THC synthase in yeast.

2:45:05SpeakerDo you know if they've looked at the previous or the prior step? In the biosynthetic pathways, so the GOT enzyme, has anyone looked at, you know? Yeah, the guys who are expressing those pathways in yeast have put in up to five steps, and they definitely are feeding it with all of the tolic acid precursors, and not only have they done the THC synthase pathway, but they've done a few other cannabinoids, but you have to put in the entire pathway.

2:45:38SpeakerYou can't just, I think you have to start with all of the tolic acid. At first, they were started with CBG. Now they're starting with olivetate acid. They say that within a few years, they honestly expect to, in a single yeast cell, pack whatever cannabinoids you want, say one or two or three, and whatever terpenes you want. Yeah. Of course, we always predict that this will weigh in on an economic level for the very rare cannabinoids, very rare terpenoids, because you can't, you can't beat the cannabis plant.

2:46:20SpeakerCannabis plant produces more, more, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:46:54SpeakerBe good. Thanks, Mowgli. Bye-bye, Mowgli. Hasta pronto, amigo. I had an idea for that guy.

2:47:04SpeakerFor some of you guys that are there. Tell me, Tony. Well, just like the record industry, I used to be in that industry. Why don't you guys just start a chemotype record label where you... Collect the data, work with breeders, and then you guys use the patent law to your advantage and protect those genetics and those farmers and do like a 50-50 split and do it like the way they do it in the music industry.

2:47:40SpeakerAnd then you can protect it. I'm not sure exactly what you're aiming at, Tony, because I developed single cannabinoid varieties recently. A decade ago. Here's what I mean. You have a genetic bank that collects data and you have a group of lawyers that can go for protecting those particular breeders or those projects you're talking about. And so you have a SAM and you have 10 other people that breed a CVGA or CVC or whatever varieties that you're talking about with or without specific terpene profiles.

2:48:16SpeakerThose farmers and those breeders don't have the sophistication or the business skills to be able to handle that. Data and the filing of the patent. So you get somebody like Mark, you get somebody like Calvary, you get somebody that is in the patent world, and you put them all together and you create a little company that literally works hand in hand with the breeders and the farmers, collects the data, secures that, protects it, and then you have your own little plant union.

2:48:51BubblemanI think it was important too when Mowgli was talking about breeding, how it's like, and Chimera of course has mentioned it as well. There's just very...

2:49:00BubblemanIt's almost like when talking about terpenes or anything else, there's certain people who are actually doing plant breeding, and then there's a whole bunch of other people that are just sort of looking for phenols and stuff from some seeds they're planting. They're not really doing actual breeding. They might be crossing a few things here and there, but they're not doing like multi-year breeding programs that are growing specific plants.

2:49:25BubblemanPlants with specific ratios or terpenes.

2:49:28SpeakerAnd Mowgli is talking about doing molecular biology with cannabis in the next few years, but he hasn't done it yet. And there really is little or nobody doing it. I mean, hardly any of the traditional cannabis breeders in the counterculture really understand molecular biology, to be honest. Now what I'm getting at is imagine you had a bank of patented protected varieties that that co-listener of that company developed.

2:50:01SpeakerA utility patent comes into play when you actually have a use for it, and if you have it tied to an element that actually has an effect, then you've just created a market for such Thank you for joining us.

2:50:38SpeakerGroup together with the research team and the legal team and the breeders and create that plant union that's never existed for our industry. And then you have protection. And then that union can choose where those plants go or don't go, where those varieties go as well. It just doesn't exist yet. Yeah, but can I say this? Can I throw this out there? Is that even possible when your main ingredient is cannabis?

2:51:06SpeakerBecause cannabis is... Well, I don't know. You guys said people were out there patenting plants and varieties. No, no. I'm not throwing it at you in a sense. I'm saying it in the sense that how can you come along and say there's ever an original invention when the outcome is just another cannabis plant? I asked the whole panel that. I don't know. Well, you can even just take it for THC and CBD.

2:51:30SpeakerI mean... You can consider that they are very different, even though they're both cannabis, they are very different plants, right? They could be the same in every other regard except produce THC and CBD. Well now, that brings me up to a totally different subject if you guys want to go deeper into this. Do you think, and I know this sounds like a really funny question, but do you think that there's a difference between the CBD that's found in resin heads?

2:51:57SpeakerAnd the CBD that's found very close to the plant material or within the actual plant itself. No, it's CBD is CBD. You feel that there's no difference in the way that that CBD is created. You're going to have it, right, Tony? I don't think you'll be able to show anywhere in the scientific literature that shows that it's not produced anywhere but in the gland. Molecules have no memory.

2:52:26SpeakerJust in the glands, right? Yeah. Go ahead, Tony. Hammer them. So it's like marketing. So it's like marketing. If it's the same market. You see brands being expressed on leaves, and it's in there. We used to do TLC on seedlings that were like two weeks old. You get the first, you know, three set of leaves, you cut it off, and you can tell the chemotype just by TLC.

2:52:49SpeakerSo. Wow. Cannabinoid acids, right? Yeah, we were doing, yeah. We found out. Okay. And we've got the analysis to prove it.

2:53:13SpeakerTHC varieties. And so I decided to give him a 14.7% CBD variety. And I think it was under 1%, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe it was 1%, Indra? THC? Do you remember? I think you said it was 0.78? 0.78 THC and 14, no, 14.78 THC.

2:53:43SpeakerCBD, and I think it was like maybe one, just under one THC. Yeah, so 14 to 1. Yeah, 14 to 1 basically. So he's got his process that he does, separating heads, and you know, I've separated a lot of different heads in different methods. In my past, I've done it dry, I've done it freeze drying, I've done it in water, you know, different ways. And so I got, I gave him CBD material and I got two things back.

2:54:18SpeakerAnd the two things that I got back, in several containers, I got a, I wish I still had it. I got a golden brick, if you will, of just heads. Very, very little contaminant at all. Very, very little leaf material. And this oily substance, Around the heads. So it was kind of a malleable, sticky, liquid Keith, but not the normal kind of Keith that I'm used to seeing.

2:54:54SpeakerAnd it was in an interesting respect, there was a rush situation. This is like one of those things where Imagine if he was a painter and I stopped by in the middle of the night with an emergency and wanted him to make me a painting by like the next two hours. So... More like 45 minutes. More like 45 minutes. So in his defense, he was shotgun approached and rushed just to see what could happen.

2:55:25SpeakerSo I got the test results of the two products he gave back. He gave me back the plant material and he gave me back the heads, the trichomes. And so this is coming from a high CBD variety and I'm going to share the results with you because And I will re-scope, like Bubble Man made a good point, but I will scope the plant material. And I just want you to understand that the plant material that was given back to me was still green, but there was absolutely no trichomes or any resin left on the plant material.

2:56:06SpeakerIt was, and you'll see a picture of it, and it looks like... That's the point. Right. Right. That's because I did it right. I get, I told you, I get the heads and I get all of them. It took, it only, it was 45 minutes was the time he left it off and he wanted it back again. It only took us five minutes to make that separation.

2:56:26BubblemanYeah. Well, and that was five pounds?

2:56:30SpeakerYeah. Yeah. John, does it also take the, okay, I understand you're getting the vast majority or all of the heads. Are you also getting the stems?

2:56:46SpeakerTony, I'll let you answer that. Yeah, no, there was little bits of the stems in there. It looked like it was kind of pulverized. But I don't mean the plant stems. I mean the resin head stems. You know, the trichome. Yeah, no, all those little things. Correct. Yeah. Yes. They were there too. It was basically as if someone separated anything that was trichome, trichome, Uh, attachment, any resin, it was... Well, when they freeze, they get very brittle, so that doesn't surprise me at all.

2:57:23SpeakerYeah, so... Well, that was just through one screen, and it was a five-minute hurry-up job. If I were to put them through a couple of screens the same way... You might have been able to separate those fractions, I understand. Yep. Okay, so, can you see my screen? Yes. All right, let's see if we can... This is the material, this is the resin that came off the plant.

2:57:53SpeakerThis is on SE Labs. And just to give you an idea, I know a lot of people in the world of testing, they don't feel test labs are accurate. So this is like my Prana P2 50 milligram. Just to give you an idea how accurate this, like we've been doing this a while. So this lab I feel is pretty on point. This is a 50 milligram and you can see 100.38 milligrams per milliliter in capsule form that's 50 milligrams.

2:58:25SpeakerIt's perfect. Thank you for joining us.

2:58:48SpeakerNo, it was resin. It was resin. No, I'm just showing you as an example of this lab. I was just saying a lot of people don't, they just don't take lab results for what they are. I'm just showing you an example of a capsule formulation that we do with Prana, how accurate their lab is with what we're doing in another product. So that's a 100 milligram tablet or capsule or whatever?

2:59:13SpeakerThat's a 50-milligram capsule. Capsules are 0.5 milliliters, so it's 100 milligrams per milliliter, 100.38. It's a three-to-one. But the heads themselves analyze for CBD and not CBDA? It's a different… This is the final product. This has been processed. No, this is not the… Yeah, this actually was part of the final product, but I'm just showing you the lab itself. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:00:05SpeakerOkay. Yeah, so it is CBDA. Okay. So there is, interesting enough, the THC, okay, just pay attention. So this process took 14.9 milligrams of THC, total THCA and THC, and 305.37 milligrams of total CBD and CBDA. We get a little breakdown, and it shows you that 9.9 Thank you so much for joining us.

3:01:03SpeakerMost, you know, 300 to 14.

3:01:10SpeakerKeith, I guess you would say. What's the variety? Sour Tsunami, so that ST up there, that's Sour Tsunami variety. Okay. So this was grown, this was grown, sun-grown as well, in a clean green. Now here's what's cool about it, also did terpenes. Oh, you did? Good for you. Oh, so much ask. Oh, look, it's not a type. See, this is an interesting... Oh, but it's not, it's a type 3, it's not a type 2 plant.

3:01:36SpeakerSo this is an interesting thing. This is a rare CBD hybrid that's not myrcene dominant. You can see that terpenylene is much higher in this sample than in any other terpene. It's actually myrcene beta-caryophylline, or sorry, terpenylene beta-caryophylline myrcene. And Tony, how long have you been growing this particular clone or had access to it for the exact same clone? So this is a group that grows, you know, over a kilo amount of it at a time, for sure.

3:02:12SpeakerYeah, this is Ringo's work, right? Sour Tsunami? Yeah, this is a Sour Tsunami. This is a...

3:02:26SpeakerThis is one that's bred out of very little THC, so this is coming from his legacy, I guess you could say, yes. So how many weeks was this varietal?

3:02:38SpeakerI'd have to see. This is full term, so this is from this year's harvest in California. Let him get to part two, guys. Yeah. So it's an outdoor. Part two is very interesting. Just ask you one more question on that one, Tony, just to get some context. Is that an old clone or is that a newly released or a newly grown seed variety from the work they've been continuing on?

3:03:01SpeakerI'll ask. Okay. I'll ask. You know how it is out here. You just get so much. Sure. But I know like this crew, and I know it's up north, it's up where John's at. It's good people. These people are growing lots of CBD medicine for a lot of people. But I was very, I really wanted it because of the flower itself. So here's part two. Here's what was left over.

3:03:29SpeakerHere's pile two. Hold on a second. Here's pile two. So look at this material.

3:03:36SpeakerThat's what it looks like. It was given back. After being processed. After John's process. And he's not using butane or anything like that.

3:03:48SpeakerHe's using the laws of thermodynamics. Which is interesting because of the conversion of THC. Now, in his process, he does a really good job pulling a lot of the THC out. But you can see the materials just kind of like sticking everything left. So this is what's left. In the plant, and if you look at this one, this is 96 milligrams per gram. So what's that saying is there's 9%.

3:04:16SpeakerSo this plant started with 14% CBD and 1% THC, a little over 1%. And what's left in the plant is 9.6. Of the 9.6, 9% of that is CO2.

3:04:34SpeakerHis CBD and CBDA and the other was at 0.04 is THC. So he's almost grabbed all the THC and there is a tremendous amount. There's still 9% left on the plant material after extracting all the heads and stalks of the heads.

3:05:03SpeakerIn this process. So my thing was, I've always felt when I especially that's when I've always done, you know, making prana, like these two things, they were separated, but they ended up, I just ended up using both of them to get everything back out of it to make that final sample that you see, because I blended with other blended with four varieties at the same time to make a three to one.

3:05:27SpeakerBut

3:05:30SpeakerJust to compare, Tony, when I do dry sifting and test seat before and afters with the GC, no matter what I do, at least 25, 35, 40% of the THC is left in the after I've sifted material. I think some of it gets smeared and for whatever reason, I can't get it all. This looks like it gets more of it.

3:06:00SpeakerListen, guys, I've done that a lot of times, and I've separated a lot of THC trichromes from a lot of buds and trimments. I also have the terpenes, too. And what I've always found the case was... I would agree in general, yes.

3:06:35SpeakerYeah, that's just been my experience over the years. I mean, that's how I make temple balls. I take the card crumbs off, extract the oil, and then combine them back together. You could do slightly better, John, with just traditional dry sifting of buds. If you freeze the material in a walk-in freezer overnight, then do your sifting, So you get a slightly better ratio of removed materials versus THC that gets left behind.

3:07:10SpeakerNot that much better, though. And if you look at something that's really interesting, so if you look at terpenes, terpenes are for sure in the heads because this is the pile of heads. It has 1.57 terpenes. Thank you for joining us.

3:07:37SpeakerRight? As in the Keith material, you have more beta-carophyllene and you have captured 1.577% versus 0.464% left in the flower material left behind. So all those, so with that being said, we know that in SIFT there's material left behind. CBD seems to be inherently in the plant or at least resin that, Can't be captured in the heads.

3:08:08BubblemanBulbous heads is my theory. I photographed them in seedlings from the first set of leaves that come out after the cotyledon, the epicotyl, and it has those glands growing right on it.

3:08:22SpeakerMark, that's true, but those plants grow because the plant is funneling it up to its creation system. So it's endemic in the whole plant, really. Think about it for a minute. No, no, no, that's not true. That's not true. Why is the brain material testing with 9% left over when I removed all the gland heads? Can you explain that?

3:08:46BubblemanYou didn't remove all the gland heads. You removed the ones that were the easiest to break off, but the ones that stayed behind, and I guarantee it, are the bulbous ones. They're almost invisible, and they're on the leaf particulate. They're everywhere. They're very hard to see. Even with my microscope, they're hard to see.

3:09:03SpeakerYou also pulverized it into a powder which got finely, finely spread over all the leaf surface. You just don't see it. Look at it with a good enough microscope, I bet you can. So would it be fair assumption to say that in CBD it seems to grow more in the bulbous than it does in the large trichomids? No, cannabinoids are produced in all glands. They're just produced in the highest concentration in the stocked capitat glands.

3:09:32SpeakerBut they're not in this case.

3:09:36SpeakerAre you going to believe your lying eyes or are you going to believe your pimp?

3:09:45BubblemanI just go with the science. I'm ready to change the way I think tomorrow, but the science shows us where cannabinoids are produced and created and it's inside glandular trichome heads, not inside stalks or leaf.

3:09:57SpeakerExcept there's only 5% of that total available CBD is right here, 5% in the heads. In the heads that he extracted.

3:10:06BubblemanYeah, exactly. How do you take into your camera, Tony, and macro photograph that plant matter?

3:10:13SpeakerNo.

3:10:14BubblemanThen do it. It'll be that simple. And go really, really close, like five to one on the bigger. And trust me.

3:10:24SpeakerI think there's a little mustard on the shirt. That's what we used to say in the lab.

3:10:29BubblemanRight. Well, I've just been, I'm not going to say that John doesn't get a higher extraction rate with his process and whatnot. I'm just going to say that everything I've learned about cannabinoids says that they're being produced inside a gland head. And if there's some other gland head that we don't know about that's inside the plant matter, I mean, I've never even found it inside the stock.

3:10:52BubblemanI've never found THC or CBG or CBN inside the stock of the trichome. I've never seen it.

3:11:01SpeakerMark, are you saying that that 9% left behind is heads? Because I defy you to find 9% heads. I'd say it's a powder or a smear over the entire surface, tops and bottoms of all the leaf particles. Listen, by the way, Sam, I do not grind it up, just for your information. No, but if you make it cold enough with a super cold gas, then it might fracture it on its own.

3:11:38SpeakerWell, if it fractures, that's the truth. It doesn't get ground. Once it's that cold... No, I understand, John. I have not done what you've done, but I've done it all except for that. But can I just point out we're clearly looking at ground material in the example STPI that Tony's showing us. Someone sometime ground that up. Tony, when did the cannabis get ground up? Prior to the extraction or when you got it back?

3:12:05SpeakerTen seconds before the extraction. Yeah, so it did get ground up. It got fractured ten seconds before the extraction. Well, but not like a, it's not like a, it's not a...

3:12:20BubblemanI mean, you guys are talking about shit you can't be talking about. Yeah, exactly. You don't know what he did.

3:12:25SpeakerExactly.

3:12:26BubblemanReally, the only person who should be talking right now is Andrew. Nobody else knows what he did.

3:12:34SpeakerThere are no circumstances. I'm jealous because, to tell you the truth, I can see you're getting higher yields than I can. I love it. I'm not trying to tout it like, hey, I got more than you did. Because that's not the deal here. The deal here is simply he had a certain amount of these very leafy flowers. I want to mention the entire circumstance. The buds were very small and they were bundled by leaf, a lot of leaf.

3:13:11SpeakerAnd I... Thank you for joining us.

3:13:41SpeakerSeparation material. And when it comes to THC trichromes, we've gotten as high as 160 grams out of a pound. It depends on when you, the cultivar and so forth and so on. But my son and I have definitely got that Thank you for joining us.

3:14:20SpeakerSo when it came to CBD material, it just leads me to think that, and maybe it's on the surface of the leaves like you guys say, but certainly this was not, and the yield percentage of this was, it just shows that it's out of the 14% available, 4.9 or so percent came off the plant in heads. The rest of it, for whatever reasons, in the plant material.

3:14:49SpeakerHowever you want to look at that, where those trichomes or how, what, maybe they're on the surface of the leaves. That's all I'm saying. Maybe the CBD is not all just in the big heads that we know and see. I agree with you, Tony. Plus it's pretty, isn't it? I think it could be in the small head sort of next to the surface of the leaves, but I don't think they're produced in the leaves.

3:15:17SpeakerWell, no problem with that, Tony.

3:15:19BubblemanYeah. They're in these small little heads that most people don't even know exist, and I'll start posting some of them on Hash Church, because I can tell you, not very many people shoot with the lens that I shoot with, and this particular gland heads, you need to go as close as possible, and they even still show up as tiny, tiny little blips. They're tiny.

3:15:39SpeakerOkay, Hollywood. Listen, now that you said that, Hollywood. That's okay.

3:15:46Etienne FontanIt was a lens joke.

3:15:47SpeakerYeah, it was a lens joke.

3:15:50BubblemanI like it.

3:15:50SpeakerBut anyway, listen, I only had a few minutes to do that, and if I would have had, if they would have given it to me and come back the next day, the numbers, I'm sure, would have been different because that's just the way it is. I had five minutes to do it, and I did it in five minutes. Well, no, I think that you would be able to do the same thing with the THC.

3:16:14SpeakerMy point is, and that's why I've always done whole plant for prana when we were talking about this, is because I felt like when you try to wash CBD plant material and try to make a full melt from it, Thank you for joining us.

3:16:45Speaker99.9. Good luck. I couldn't. Exactly. So that's all I'm trying to say here is that, you know, THC, big heads, we get a lot of it. And the CBD is obviously at the surface and what Marcus is talking about, these little, small little type of heads that are right by the surface. And it's very important because, you know, when people are using a hydrocarbon as example, hydrocarbon works really well.

3:17:14SpeakerThank you for joining us.

3:17:42BubblemanI'm trying to make you all believe. No, this is a scientific fact. You can read about the different types of trichomes. There are the capitate stalk. There are the capitate sessile, and then there's the bulbous. They don't have stalks. They're literally just the head right on the leaf, and they're much smaller. And I've been sort of theorizing for quite a few years now that they contain a higher level of CBD or different cannabinoids than the big bulbous.

3:18:07BubblemanThey're not the ones that I as a connoisseur for recreational purposes are super excited to inhale off my vaporizer.

3:18:18SpeakerDon't tell anybody, but the biggest resin head I ever saw in my life was actually growing on the roots like a potato. And it was massive. You know, I was just going to address that very same subject. A few minutes ago somebody said there's none in the stems and there's none in the roots. I extracted five pounds of roots and stems and I got a really fairly decent extract of oil out of it.

3:18:48BubblemanI did bubble hash with stems and got the whitest bubble hash ever. I photographed glandular trichomes growing off of stems.

3:18:56SpeakerThey're on stems for sure. I was making that up about the roots having trichome potatoes. That was just a joke.

3:19:06BubblemanRight. Yeah, no, I've definitely did an extraction with just stems and got the whitest, whitest bubble hash I ever made. It literally was like someone put fresh frozen into a freeze dryer. It was that white.

3:19:20SpeakerWell, so that's kind of my point is with, you know, when you wash fresh frozen material or you wash dry material, there's a lot of medicine still left on the plant. And those hash makers are throwing their material away. So...

3:19:35BubblemanWell, that's why we've always told people to use like a plant fat, like a coconut oil or something to get that last little bit out of there so that you know you're not throwing anything away. But at the same time, it also got me to the point where I was always kind of feeling like giving people my leftover material for them to make products to heal a disease or to help them improve their quality of life.

3:19:57BubblemanI always felt like Shit, I should just give them the best of what I extracted.

3:20:02SpeakerAh, but you guys just said there's no difference between the CBD or THC material.

3:20:09BubblemanI don't know who said that, but what I'm talking about is from my own bioassay.

3:20:12SpeakerAs a smoker, giving someone my garbage isn't the same as giving someone my best, say, six-star bubble that sells for $100 a gram compared to a gram that is sort of like a, But when we're talking about medicine and we're talking about THC content, the THC content left on the plant, you guys said, or at least Mark did earlier, that there's no difference. Between THC and THC.

3:20:36BubblemanWell, then let him smoke that, and I'll smoke this, and I'll ask you later if there's a difference. Because there is a difference.

3:20:43SpeakerWell, maybe for smoking, I'm talking about for making like capsules.

3:20:47BubblemanWell, but what I'm talking about is the bioassay for the connoisseur smoker. Constantly fits into the medical user. It's like I know that what I have is what they all want and need. And I don't want them to get anything less than that. And that's just how I've always felt about it since.

3:21:05SpeakerBut connoisseur actually says organoleptic, actually.

3:21:11BubblemanOkay, well, I'm down with that for sure. I'm just saying that the thing that we like as connoisseurs often translates to great medicine. Not always, not saying that it's still not great medicine to use the leftover bubble material or the leftover sift material. Some people are more... I'm sure if Indra had oiled that material, there would be nothing left to get off of it.

3:21:35SpeakerIf you do a good water extraction, what percent of the active cannabinoids are left in the leftover wet leaves? That's what I'm talking about. Quite a bit. Quite a bit, actually. And you're wrong. If I would have extracted the green stuff, I would have got all the rest of the oil that was available. And I can prove it. You just run the same thing by me again.

3:21:58SpeakerI'll make the trichromes again. And then I'll extract the green and give them both to you. And then you can tell them that theory.

3:22:05BubblemanBut that's what I said, that you would do that. I didn't say that you wouldn't. I said that if you had oiled that material afterwards, you would have gotten the leftover materials.

3:22:14SpeakerThat's right. So is there anything wrong with the post-wash material going into an edible grade medicine? What do you mean? Not if it's quickly used, Tony. How are you extracting it, Tony? Well, I'm just curious what you guys thought on it. How will you be extracting it? Well, I would have to dry it out first. And then we could run it through many ways. You could do CO2.

3:22:43BubblemanA great way to test it just through your own bioassay would be to have someone like Indra extract the first part out with his method, and then to go back and extract what's left over, what got left behind, or to take someone's bubble material, what got left over, and make an oil out of it, and then just bioassay the two. You've got the oil that was made from leftovers, and then you've got the six star that was made from the first wash, and just...

3:23:09BubblemanPut those out.

3:23:10SpeakerI've done both of those. If it contains THC and you could distill it, say, in a short path to make distillate, THC is THC, right?

3:23:22BubblemanWe're talking about the quality of runs from a wash, and anyone that's ever made hash knows that generally the first wash, the first run, isn't going to be the same as the third or the fourth. There's generally... Thank you for joining us.

3:23:51BubblemanThank you for joining us today.

3:24:18BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

3:24:35SpeakerI thought what Tony was asking, I thought the question was, is can you take material that's been processed in a water method and then do an extraction to get these...

3:24:44BubblemanHe was, but he never mentioned taking it to the next level with a molecular short path distiller. You mentioned that. He was just talking about the medicine... Thank you for watching.

3:25:15BubblemanAnd make them some coconut oil with that. And so that's what I chose to do. And that might just be my own mentality of thinking that way. But I know if anyone that I know gets sick, I want them to access literally what I consider the best quality of that medicine, which is… Oh, I agree.

3:25:33SpeakerAs a model who has to deal with that all the time, I mean, I don't know anything, you know, how to extract any of this stuff. But… If I were to have the choice of really, really good stuff or the leftovers, I think I'm going to take the really good stuff. If you realize one thing, you're not understanding. The leftovers have to be looked at in a completely different way.

3:26:04SpeakerWhen you throw those away, you're throwing half of the product of the plant Thank you for joining us.

3:26:37BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

3:26:56BubblemanEveryone I know. Okay, well that's different than everyone, so make sure you're always, because I've been teaching people about this for a long time, and I have a coconut oil extraction video that I show people to take their leftover materials. I tell people to do it for their own preventative medicine so they can take that daily and just be healthy eating cannabis, but when it comes to someone like Colton or my uncle with cancer or something that's like more serious, from my perspective only, not everybody, Saying anything you guys are doing is wrong, just my own perspective.

3:27:27BubblemanI want them to have what I have, like the best of what I can find. That's what I want for them. Not leftovers.

3:27:34SpeakerBut it's CBD, CBD, CBD. I mean, and that, I guess that would be the question.

3:27:38BubblemanAre you using pure monomolecular medicine though, Wendy, or are you using profiles? I don't know. Like, are you guys using distillate as his medicine, or do you use full profile cannabinoids? Meaning... He took the plant, he did an extraction, and you got everything in the extraction. They ran the process through a molecular short path distiller and got pure THCA and pure CBDA and then created their own mix.

3:28:06BubblemanI don't know exactly what Colton takes, but I was under the impression he was more under a full profile mix.

3:28:12SpeakerHe's actually, they're doing some kind of isolate.

3:28:16BubblemanSo he's on an isolate.

3:28:18SpeakerYeah. So then it's the same.

3:28:22BubblemanThen it's the same. Taking the leftovers and turning it into an isolate is the same.

3:28:26SpeakerIt's across the board, right? Because CBD is CBD is CBD. It doesn't matter if, as long as Colton gets 60 milligrams of CBD, it shouldn't matter where the molecule actually came from.

3:28:42BubblemanFrom a monomolecular standpoint, it's exactly the same. I'm talking from the connoisseur level of using the whole plant. People that are more interested in accessing just CBD or just THC, but accessing it in the profile that the actual plant produced along with the terpene profile that it produced as well. Some people are of the mindset that that's, like from my perspective, from the smoking and inhalation perspective, I don't get the same effects from pure CBDA or pure THCA with terpenes mixed as I do with a whole plant extract, whether made into oil or with hash.

3:29:23SpeakerYeah, I don't think anyone's arguing that.

3:29:26Etienne FontanNo, I think I'd agree with that. I'd agree.

3:29:28BubblemanYeah, and that's all that I'm discussing, really. I didn't think we were arguing.

3:29:31SpeakerNo, but what I was getting at is, as you know, planning these two different facilities that we're going to be washing a lot, and we're going to be doing a lot of John's Tech, and SIFS, and things like that, and why I always did Prana in its whole plan into... And it's infusion process because I didn't want to wash and I didn't want to press it or I didn't want to blow it.

3:29:55SpeakerI wanted to capture everything when it's full. But when you start going outside there and you go, okay, I'm making 99% sick or we're making a five to six star full mouth and you're making these different flower rosins. Even in flower rosin, what I've done is collect all the post flower material and put that into oils. And when you're talking about distillates, whether it's CO2 or hydrocarbon, What we're talking about as leftovers is a lot of just medicine in general that's going to waste.

3:30:25SpeakerSome people are throwing them away. So after washes, people are throwing it away. After sifting, they're throwing it away.

3:30:31BubblemanWell, believe it. When I first started showing this to people in the late 90s, everyone was throwing it away. And it was not just like on such a mass scale that you could actually go to the dump here in British Columbia In Vancouver, and you could find giant, sometimes whole gardens, plants in plastic bags, giant amounts of trim that looked like it got thrown out of a dump truck.

3:30:56BubblemanPeople just used to throw it away, and you're right, it's a crime. With someone like John who can hydrocarbon the shit out of that, and then run it through a root science molecular distillation short path unit, and literally produce Pure cannabinoids, yeah, that is an added bonus that I would never say to turn away from. My only weird perspective is that I still feel that there's something special about that first bounce.

3:31:21SpeakerOf course there is.

3:31:23BubblemanYeah, like whatever it is, because we as connoisseurs are the ones that understand that more than anything. And I do think that it translates out to help, you know, people that aren't necessarily connoisseurs. I don't know...

3:31:35SpeakerIf you look at the whole plant, you said, okay, we're going to make, we're going to make, you know, five stars, six. We start breaking down the plant. It's not, it's just not leftover. It's just a part of the plant that needs to be repurposed. Right. And so that can be repurposed into an isolate or can be repurposed into a distillate. And it's just part of the plant that lots of people are throwing away.

3:31:57SpeakerAnd I'm going to offer a service that will be collecting and recycling that. You know, because it's a, and that medicine can also be donated. So when you think about it and you say, okay, you can start, how do we start helping people? Well, we can start pulling in that material that people are throwing away and we can start turning that into distillates or isolates. And now all of a sudden you have almost like a food bank of medicine.

3:32:21SpeakerRight? And yes, you have option A. You can always go to the shelf and get the premium or the connoisseur grade, but there's also just pure ingredients, pure medicine.

3:32:33BubblemanYeah. Well, it's happening big in the hemp industry, right? I mean, they're not growing those cultivars for cannabinoids yet people are definitely harvesting A lot of those cannabinoids, and they're out in the marketplace offering help to different people all over North America right now, so it's definitely hard to deny it. I did a panel at the ICBC conference with a CO2 extractor and a molecular short path distiller, and it was interesting.

3:32:57BubblemanIt was quite interesting to be on that panel and to listen to an aspect that I don't have as much knowledge about, but definitely interesting. Peaked my interest for certain. It would be nice, well, with, you know, with John, with Indra showing up, it's, everything's different. I've always been very afraid of the butane method, and I even tell people, well, you know, what about Indra? Isn't he just doing the butane method?

3:33:22BubblemanI'm like, yeah, but I think he might need to rename it or something, because what he's doing, I think, is very different from the majority of what people are doing, and it's sort of, I'm sure, will show in his end product.

3:33:36SpeakerI'm going to start using lasers. That picture you see of mine there is the inside of my dab bowl. You guys are always holding up these little bowls and saying this is the dab. That's my dab bowl right there. Where's the dab today? Yeah. Well, mine is in a one-quart bowl there because I don't have any of those little small ones.

3:34:01BubblemanWell, mine's just a tiny little one, but I'll tell you, it is some pretty fine quality.

3:34:06SpeakerLooks lovely.

3:34:08BubblemanOh, I wish I could load a big bowl of it up for you right now. I wish I could load a big bowl of it up for all the Hash Church panelists, and maybe a capsule for Colton. We'll load up a capsule for Colton.

3:34:24BubblemanIt does bring me joy to see you guys so happy, Wendy. You know, I keep an eye on the social media and seeing you guys out in Boston with Boo Williams and the crew over there. And just, yeah, it was nice to see you guys embracing cannabis activism and sharing. I'm sure you have many mothers contacting you and asking you questions galore.

3:34:45SpeakerAll the time. All the time. And I add that... Get on places like this and learn more about it. Like I said, I'm just a mom. I don't have awesome microscopes and cameras and I'm not looking at terpenes and things like that but I see what happens in my kid and I know that there are certain things that are working and that aren't working. And I think that it's great for you guys to have this discussion every Sunday and really talk about the intricacies of this plant because we just don't know.

3:35:26SpeakerI mean, there's so much to learn and I just get blown away every time I listen to you guys.

3:35:32Etienne FontanYeah, but we're also blown away by you, by going out there. I mean, it's a brave mother to actually go out there and take the risk of, one, you're already trying to heal your child, two, you have to take a chance on a medicine that turns out to be illegal. You have to actually move your child. And go through that. And cannabis has been successful for you and for Colton.

3:35:55Etienne FontanBut unfortunately, as we know, that's not always the case. Not everybody is successful. And I bet you've come across some heartbreaking stories along the way as well as a mother because people rely to you because you've been through it firsthand. So they reach out to you and say, hey, I tried this or I tried the same thing as Colton, but this didn't work out. What do you tell them?

3:36:17SpeakerWell, to be honest with you, I haven't found yet someone that it hasn't worked for, that they haven't had some kind of symptom reduction. It works somehow in every single person. You know, I haven't found one person yet that has said it just did not work for me at all. So that's the glory of this plant is that it really does work for almost everything. And like I said, I haven't found anybody yet that it hasn't worked for.

3:36:53SpeakerBut it's really disheartening to see Parents that are stuck in other states that can't move or that can't get access to it and their child is in the hospital and they Facebook us and say, what do we do? How do I get out of this situation? It's so hard and I'm not a doctor. I'm just a mom and I see that heartbreak in families all the time and that's one of the reasons why we did Thank you so much for joining us.

3:37:46SpeakerAnd there's probably a hundred kids out there that would have never tried it. You know, and I just, I couldn't do that. I couldn't, I couldn't let that happen. I just knew something worked for my kid and I knew that if it worked for mine, that it could work for so many other people. And I just, we just wanted to make sure that we understood that and people understood that.

3:38:08SpeakerBut, you know, Wendy, can you just tell us a little bit more about how, so when Colton started using cannabis, what did he start with? And then when did he start noticing it helping his symptoms? Was it immediate or did you have to fiddle around with the dosing a little bit before you found effects? And just tell us a little bit, what were the main symptoms that it helped Colton with until the point where you felt he was in remission?

3:38:35SpeakerLike what was the, I know you're on a one-to-one THC to CBD ratio now, but where did you start with and when did you first notice his symptoms getting better? Can you just tell us a little bit about that? We started with pot brownies. We started illegally in the state of Illinois. We had found, we knew a friend that was growing and we said, hey, could you give us some?

3:39:00SpeakerWe looked on YouTube to figure out how to make pot brownies. We gave it to him for a week. We didn't know how to dose it. So my husband took a brownie, waited two hours, said, okay, well, this is how I feel. I, you know, Colton is twice the size of me or, you know, He's only like 80 pounds and my husband was like 160. And so he said, okay, I'm going to cut this brownie in half.

3:39:28SpeakerI'm going to give it to Colton, see how it helps. And immediately in that one week, we found that he was more energetic and he was talking more and he was walking down the stairs. Now that was a really big thing because Colton used to just scoot down the stairs. He'd sit down and just like slide down. And at first we thought that it was just because he thought it was fun.

3:39:52SpeakerBut then we realized it's because he just didn't have the energy to walk down the stairs. And so then we found out that he was just doing a little bitty tiny things all the time. And that was just pot brownies. We don't know what profile it was. We don't know what street it was.

3:40:10Etienne FontanWe have no idea what... Did you write this down? Did you record this so you could present it to his doctors? And how did you do so so that you could present it to your doctors?

3:40:22SpeakerWe wrote down... Well, once we... When we were doing it illegally, we wrote it down, but we didn't present it to anything because we had to go back to the Mayo Clinic. And at that moment in time, we were still illegal. Illinois was still illegal. We could have gotten Colton taken away from us. So there was a lot of legalities to it. So we stopped doing it.

3:40:43SpeakerAnd then we went back to the Mayo Clinic, got his colonoscopy for the last time and before just really starting a cannabis regimen and then moved to Colorado. And then once he moved to Colorado, he did 22 days of brownies again. And we wrote down how much he weighed, how tall he was, and what he ate, and how much brownies he took, what strain it was, which was sour Tsunami from the very beginning.

3:41:10SpeakerAnd three days after he started taking brownies on a regular basis here in Colorado, He was throwing snowballs at my husband. He was running around on the top of the mountain. So we were really looking at how much pain he was having because we'd always scale his pain from 0 to 10. And he was always at a constant 7 when he was in a flare. But he never stopped being at a 3.

3:41:39SpeakerWhat kind of diet? Any particular diet? Yeah. So what kind of, does he eat like regular food, like, like a regular kid or? No, no. Well here. Okay. I have a hard time with this question because Colton is extremely picky and so is my husband. So neither one of them eat fruit. Now, my husband doesn't have Crohn's disease. He's just picky. But we found out through the Mayo Clinic that he was malabsorbent for fructose.

3:42:10SpeakerSo we take the fructose out of his diet completely. So he doesn't have apples because apples have a natural fructose in it. Now, because he's been in remission for so long, He's starting to eat things that have 2% or less fructose in it, and it's not bothering him at all. So that was a really big situation, is the fructose. Now, he's not gluten-free. He eats all the gluten that he wants.

3:42:39SpeakerMeat and dairy. He eats dairy. Ben and Jerry's is his go-to. He loves it. And meat, all kinds of meat. Yeah, he eats all kinds of meat, but we limit his red meat just because of the digestion process. He has more Crohn's constipation than Crohn's diarrhea. So we have to really limit his intake of peanut butters and things that can be constipating. But we wrote all that down.

3:43:11SpeakerWe wrote all of it down for like seven months. And then we got his second colonoscopy done. And he was in remission. And then we just stopped. We were just like, we don't even care anymore. It was, you know, the doctor's, you know, job to do all this stuff. And we just, we stopped making sure that we knew what he was eating every day. But Colton's very picky and it's easy.

3:43:38SpeakerAnd that's one thing that I always have to deal with when it comes to other parents is, you know, you have to have a strict diet. I don't care if you're taking cannabis or you're taking Humira. You have Crohn's disease. You can't eat nuts. You can't eat popcorn. You can't eat a lot of those things. And so it was, that's really, really difficult. Diet is huge. And just because Colton's in remission and he's taking cannabis doesn't mean that his diet doesn't matter because it really does.

3:44:10SpeakerDoes he have any upper GI issues like acid reflux or any upper GI problems at all? Yeah. From birth, he's always had acid reflux. He was a projectile vomiter. And he's only had one ulcer in his esophagus from the beginning. But, you know, it just, the acids in his stomach just don't like, They come back up. I mean, it's typical for any Crohn's patient. So, yeah, just a little bit of it.

3:44:44SpeakerBut really, his disease is in his ileum and in his small intestines and his large intestines. So he has skip lesions. So that way, they're gone. Was he able to tolerate your breast milk? No. Which was shocking because a lot of a lot of evidence goes to the colostrum and in breast milk for Thank you for joining us today.

3:45:39SpeakerBut it is. He's a kid. Yeah, he's a kid. But I will say he's not one of those kids that will, if the cookie has fructose in it, he's not going to eat it. He won't do it. And he has this willpower that is beyond most adults that I know. But the thing is that we have to figure out what the best methods are for extraction of cannabis for a medicine.

3:46:09SpeakerWhat's the best route to take when it comes to dietary issues, when it comes to Crohn's disease or cancer or things like that? What are the best cannabinoids to use? We have a long, long way to go and it's just, the science of it is just mind-boggling. And to hear you guys talk is crazy. Also, how that's coupled with all his other nutrition intakes. Diet, like you said, is so important.

3:46:41SpeakerCannabis, to me, is part of his diet, not a medication. It's just part of his diet. It's part of his nutritional supplements that his body needs. Again, we were talking earlier with Mowgli about how does the government wrap their hands around Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:47:26SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

3:47:47SpeakerI absolutely 100% agree and that's why we try to speak out as much as we possibly can. I wish that his doctor would be more open to talk about what she has said and what she has seen with Colton. She wrote a case study and the American Journal of Gastroenterology would not accept it. And I'm like, this is where we go wrong in society is that they just don't want to accept cannabis as medicine or as a dietary supplement or as something that we as humans need.

3:48:23SpeakerIt's food. Natasha, where can that type of case study be published in the literature? Where can we get that published? Yeah, well, there's a new journal that just launched. It's by the CCIC and the, sorry, the ICRS. It's a, I think it's ICRS directed, International Cannabinoid Research Society. They have a new cannabinoid research journal and they are accepting case studies. So they would be very interested in that.

3:48:52SpeakerI can send you some of the info and I know they were looking for some sort of case study. So anyway, I can hook up Your doctor and because that I know there would be people very interested in reading those types of case studies. And yeah, that sucks that the American, you said American Journal of Gastroenterology wouldn't accept it? No. That's unfortunate. So yeah, let's get in contact after this and try and figure out where we can get that published.

3:49:18SpeakerOkay. Well, what was the reason for them not accepting that as a published study? I'm just curious. Do you know the reason? She didn't really explain to us what the reason was. She mentioned something about the wording of it. And I haven't got to read the case study yet. I'd like to actually read it and see what it says. But I think that it had something to do with the wording and the preface of the study.

3:49:49SpeakerI don't think that they wanted to see efficacy. This is blatant efficacy, blatant. I mean, when you go from zero medications for six months and absolute horrid disease and infestation in his body to seven months after starting cannabis, complete remission where they couldn't find any kind of inflammation or Crohn's activity at all. That's blatant clinical efficacy. And they don't want to say, oh yeah, you're right, it is.

3:50:29SpeakerWhen did you start using your 1 to 1 CBD THC ratio? Like when did you switch from the brownies to the more refined isolates or whatever? We started March 24th on the regular oil and it was a CBD oil so it was a 20 to 1 and then we would always supplement with like a cookie or cracker or something like that that was really high in THC.

3:50:59SpeakerThe oil itself was a really high CBD. But then we found that with Colton and CBD, it makes him really tired and it gets him a little high. So he is just another weird thing about Colton that we have to keep the THC high in him or he's going to feel super, super high. And we found that out when we started just taking the oil, that he needed that THC again.

3:51:33SpeakerSo we started up about a week after we started just the plain CBD oil with the brownies and the cookies and the crackers and things like that until his oil maker decided to do I'm a CBD oil and then a THC oil. And then we mix the two together. And then it's just kind of evolved from there. Because we're giving him a lot of oil, a lot of vegetable oil type stuff.

3:52:00SpeakerSo he takes oil. His oil is safflower. And that can't be good for you. I mean, I don't want him to come out with heart disease or something crazy like that because he's taking all this oil. Misconception. Taking vegetable oils, it depends what kind. I mean, high safflower oil can be an issue because it's really high in N6 fatty acids. You might want something that's made with something like N3 fatty acids, but maybe if he's taking a fish oil supplement, it's not an issue.

3:52:25SpeakerBut the misconception is that taking in fat makes you fat. That's not true anymore. Like, that used to be how people viewed fatty foods, but nutritional fats are very good for you and very good for inflammation, especially like we were talking about before, hemp seed oil. And whatever, we can talk more about that. I'll give you more information. Yeah, and I know that coconut oil is, everybody uses coconut oil, which is great.

3:52:50SpeakerI mean, it's very, very healthy for people. And like I said, I'm not a scientist, so I have no real clue other than what people tell me. But coconut oil makes him have diarrhea. Because it is a natural diuretic. Yeah, it's a natural diuretic. I was going to say that. And by the way, I don't know if you read lately, but a couple of researchers in Japan discovered that CBD oil, when it hits the gastric acids, changes into THC.

3:53:19SpeakerI did read that. And I also read that the THC is not only going from Delta 11, but to CBN. And I don't know about that. They said that the...

3:53:33SpeakerGoing through the liver and is changing the cannabinoids.

3:53:39Etienne FontanYeah, it turns THC to Lexi-Hydroxy Metabolite, so it doesn't surprise me that it's going to do the same depending on the condition and the ratio that the plant is naturally.

3:53:49SpeakerYeah, and how do we know? And that's some of the things that I would love to know. It's unanswered.

3:53:57SpeakerYeah, it is. And it drives us crazy as parents. And I have so many moms every single day say, do you have research? I'm like, no. There's absolutely no research out there other than this one little study in Israel that proves that cannabis has efficacy. We'll emphasize your son. There's a couple of Japanese articles on it as well. Maybe you've missed them. But it's starting to pop up everywhere that people are coming to that conclusion.

3:54:31SpeakerIt's not as remote and it's not as anecdotal as you might think at this point. It will do chemistry in the stomach and it will do chemistry in the liver. You can't keep that from happening. So that's why a sublingual absorption into the capillaries that are very prevalent in the mouth. So if you have like a lozenge, a cough drop, or if you're just administering just drops of oil, so now you're going to get it into the bloodstream Advanced to the, you know, digestion that would happen in the gut or oxidation that would happen in the liver to make sure that the profile that you're putting in in the medicine is the same profile that's being delivered into the blood.

3:55:22SpeakerAnd on eating the oil. The anecdotal evidence points out that since oil is in everything in the planet, that we are little chemical factories that use oil in our bodies and we need it. I think your perspective there was coming from maybe eating too much bacon or animal fat or something like that. And the plant oils are actually fuel for our bodies and they're good for you.

3:55:53SpeakerThat's the only thing that I do worry about is giving him too much of the oil, of the carrier oil that's in the cannabis. Switch from coconut to olive or something else. Hands down, olive oil. I mean, it seems to do okay. As long as it's not coconut oil. I know that coconut oil makes him sick. Get some good marijuana seed oil and try that out on him.

3:56:23SpeakerThat's a good idea. And see how that works. That is a good idea. Those things go naturally together. The mechanism of how it works, the metabolism throughout his body, we don't know any of that stuff. I mean, we have a hard time I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to be here.

3:57:04SpeakerWe need it as just a layman that just has a sick kid. I need to know these things. It needs to get out there. We need to understand why this is working and how it's working. So if somebody figures out how to make a buck on it, it'll pop up. Yeah. I think it should be regulated like tomatoes and we were talking about regulation and patents and things like that.

3:57:30SpeakerYou know, we have beer from Budweiser and we have craft beer. I don't know why we can't have both in cannabis. We can have the… Thank you so much for joining us.

3:58:11SpeakerTake into consideration how to make it grow fast, how to make it last long on the shelf, how to make it aesthetically pleasing. How does it taste? Never mind how it tastes.

3:58:21BubblemanThere's a third option.

3:58:23SpeakerGo ahead, Mark. Go ahead. No, you go, Mark.

3:58:25BubblemanThere's a third option to that as well, which I figured out when I owned my raw food vegan organic cafe. And I ended up just developing relationships with local farmers, some of which were heirloom tomato growers. And man, if these weren't the quirkiest, most unique people I ever did meet, they bring beautiful, artistic tomatoes, purples and greens and mixtures of oranges and yellows and... Those heirloom tomatoes tasted beautiful.

3:58:54BubblemanSo I'm sure whatever city you're living in, you probably have some unique person growing heirloom tomatoes that has a farm that you can drive out of your city and go and purchase and support these people because they do indeed require support and they should be supported because they're doing good work. Not everyone can grow the most delicious tomatoes. For those of you that can, that's wonderful. For those of you that can't, Safeway is not your only option.

3:59:20SpeakerWell, and you know what I want to point out? It's that we're not talking about taste. We're talking about cannabinoids. And we're finding that cannabinoids are so important in our system because of the Endocannabinoid system. And we're talking about corporate cannabis potentially being really good for a majority of society that just simply could benefit from cannabinoids being in their system. Just like that happened with him, just like that happened with me and happens with everybody.

3:59:48SpeakerLike what you said about cannabis having a positive effect on almost everybody that uses it. I think it's true, which is why it's so popular and so many people use it. So if corporate cannabis got into the hands of more people, those cannabinoids would be helping more people, even if metaphorically the tomatoes didn't taste as good as the juicy buds coming out of the farms of Humboldt County.

4:00:13SpeakerBut those cannabinoids would still benefit everybody, even if they came out of factories in Oklahoma. And I think everyone has to start looking at this realiztically. And we have a right to these cannabinoids, just like we have a right to vitamins and minerals. And I agree with that. Thank you, Carol Marks. There are a lot of moms out there that are single parents that have kids with epilepsy that cannot grow their own medicine because they don't have time.

4:00:40SpeakerYou know, growing your own is great. And I would love if I were you. Any good at it, I would do it. But, you know, I think that there's a need for all sorts of levels of manufacturing and marketing for this plant. And, you know, I don't mind being that mom that walks into this store, grabs their cannabinoids and takes it home. Or I don't mind being that mom that also grows outside.

4:01:09SpeakerYou know, everybody needs it and, you know, however you get it, it shouldn't matter.

4:01:14BubblemanTruth. Truth indeed. People are a little sensitive on how people should be allowed to access it. Mostly people who have been a part of the monopoly that was prohibition, i.e. only those willing to break the law can actually play a monopoly for sure. Those people are upset that that monopoly is sort of falling apart and although they thought that they were fighting for the freedom of the plant to one day have other people come and be involved that are of that next level in business, now that it's happening, they fight it like it's the worst thing that could ever happen whereas I just see it as one other option.

4:01:50BubblemanIt's like just focus on what you want to do. If what you want to do is the craft cannabis aspect, then focus on that and make that a reality. Don't waste your time trying to stop a company who's trying to go a little bigger, do it on a different level and touch more people. Because of it, it's pretty much every other business that I know of in our Societies have reached these levels.

4:02:11BubblemanThese same people probably buy groceries at the grocery stores and buy their clothes from giant corporations that make clothes and get pissed off about corporations while punching on their Chinese iPhones or computers. Thank you for watching.

4:02:51SpeakerI was a 13-year-old kid was able to grow pot in his closet undetected by his grandmother for a year. And it was good pot. You know, the best pot you can ever smoke is the pot you grow yourself. It feels the best. It's the vibe is the best. You can pick it when you like it. You can dry it as long as until it's perfect. I encourage everyone to grow their own.

4:03:13SpeakerBut, you know, don't fear corporate cannabis because, God, look at the inner cities. Look at the anger. Look at the violence. Cannabis could help. Everything. Everywhere. No question. Dude, I had a bad nightmare that I walked into Kmart one day and I was going to buy a shirt off the rack and I looked around and everybody in the damn store was wearing that shirt.

4:03:38BubblemanAnd that was your nightmare?

4:03:39SpeakerThat was my nightmare.

4:03:41BubblemanDo you think that's going to happen?

4:03:44SpeakerNo, it was probably one of those metaphorical things that I decided to cast aside as soon as it happened. I only just remembered it happened years ago. But anyway, I'm not against the corporate pot idea at all. I guess if you pin me down, I would say I think 64 is a good thing because it keeps people from going to jail. More specifically, my good buddy Todd.

4:04:10SpeakerI don't want to see him going to jail, being here on Hatch Church with an empty chair that says, I'm in jail on it every Sunday. I don't want to see that. And so therefore, I guess, you know, I'm for it. But you know what? What I'm really for is... Thank you so much for joining us.

4:04:52SpeakerThank you for watching.

4:05:11SpeakerIt's got a dark side, Todd. It does. I mean, you can't say, unless you're bourgeois, that this pot is for the people, but I'm not going to smoke this shit. I'm going to, you know, let's only smoke the connoisseur stuff. Hey, I'm flash for you. Everybody wants the connoisseur shit. Yeah, can I say this, though? You know what? For the past 20 plus years of my life, I've been a food snob.

4:05:35SpeakerI go for organic food. I don't eat at fast food restaurants. I've Always spoiled myself on good organic food. And, you know, I'm not going to sit and lobby against, you know, corporate vegetables or canned vegetables, even though I don't use them. You know, and this is where I kind of cut into conflict with people that look at cannabis. And I feel like they're the ones that want to control the cannabis because they don't want the competition, the price dropping, the accountability, you know, namely the profit loss.

4:06:06SpeakerAnd to me... I don't care about that. I think that everything we talk about is really deep, and it will help people, and I hope someday that cannabis costs pennies a pound, in all honesty. I hope it's cheap as could be so that it's available to everybody. I'm happy for that, but somehow I feel a little bit that if we keep going that way, we're going to end up with stuff like canned sushi, you know?

4:06:34SpeakerI just don't want to end up with stuff like synthetic, like Marinol. You know, I don't mind the corporate pot situation at all, but I don't want to have to give Colton Marinol or any kind of synthetic marijuana. Well, that's pretty good.

4:06:51BubblemanSomeone gave me this Cannabis Floss from Bedrocan, and I was reading on the back, and it says 22% Dronabinol.

4:07:00BubblemanAnd I was like, dronabinol, isn't that like a synthetic? Like, how could this pot be 22%? And so you smell it. It has a really strange sort of smell to it. And I'm not sure if they're creating a synthetic cannabinoid and then, you know, putting it on the plant matter somehow.

4:07:15SpeakerI'm going to... Can I tell you, I asked that question. And I was told that because it puts THC in the same category with dronabinol as a natural.

4:07:25BubblemanReally?

4:07:25SpeakerBecause you're holding up a Dutch, the Bedrocan pharmaceutical bottle. And that's what I saw it on. I have two of them right here. I got Alan Drucker's one. And the explanation was to me is that it allowed them to put it in the same classification as Dranabinol, which was exempted. Because Dranabinol got exemption around the world as a synthetic form of THC. So Bedrocan came along and went natural, equivalent, and this is the equivalent in the books.

4:07:53SpeakerNo, that's not what it is. What it is is the Dutch government refers to THC as Dranabinol. Right. And what about the German? Sorry? They call it Funtastish. Yeah, they might also. It might be like a European Pharmacopeia thing.

4:08:09BubblemanOkay, yeah.

4:08:10SpeakerThat's actually what THC made by, what's the company? Sam's the... Roxanne? No, no, I'm asking Sam. It's THC Farm. They take... CBD, they extract it from hemp and then they do a chemical conversion on it to make it into THC and that product is registered as dronabinol. So, I think in Europe what the deal is, that's how they refer to THC. Weird.

4:08:41BubblemanIt's definitely bizarre to confuse people like that. It confused the hell out of me. I was like, what the hell? They got something else in here that's not the natural plant?

4:08:50SpeakerWhat does it look like, Mark?

4:08:51BubblemanIt just looks like crushed up buds.

4:08:54SpeakerThey've actually got a variety also called... Bedrobinol. Really? Yeah, because all their varieties start with Bedro, right? Yeah, yeah. Really enticing names, huh? Just wants you to make you roll up a joint of Genovenol. Genovenol. The one thing that Dutch weed has that Canadian legal weed doesn't have is you can fly around the world with Dutch weed. You can't do that with Canadian weed. The Dutch weed actually has a You've been 86.

4:09:57SpeakerWhen you're 86 and you're working at like a kitchen, you're out of it. That's right. Maybe I'm going back too far for some of you guys. I remember it. Hey, Mark, is it any good?

4:10:11BubblemanI mean, have you tried it? I wouldn't try it probably. It's just herbs, so I don't know. I just was going to photograph it with my macro lens and see what was up. It smells like some amnesia haze or something. Squeeze it. Roll up some of that Bactelius. What's the variety, Mark?

4:10:29SpeakerIt just says Cannabis Floss. No, but it probably, really? Is that all it says on there? No, it's Bedrocan. That's the variety. It's called Bedrocan.

4:10:36BubblemanOh, okay, yeah. This is the Bedrocan, and I don't know what... Jack Hare is what it is. Okay, yeah. It's got a very lemony sort of sativa-like scent to it.

4:10:45SpeakerYeah, you're right. Aren't they using, like, gamma radiation to irradiate that cannabis? Yeah, so they kill botulism with gamma, too. That's one way to deal with mold, huh?

4:11:00SpeakerYou fry them. Yeah, here's some deep fried mold. You'll be fine. It's medicinal. Don't worry about it. Would you just smoke a bowl of it?

4:11:10BubblemanNo, God no.

4:11:11SpeakerI'd just dab some frickin' beautiful six star. I was going to say, man, I haven't seen you smoke flour in a decade. And if you were going to smoke flour, maybe try something different for the first time, you know?

4:11:24BubblemanYeah, like maybe when like some incredible land race has been bred back into Jamaica, I'll like light up one of those, you know, grown on the highest mountain peak. Sure.

4:11:38SpeakerJamaica Blue Mountain Coffee is some badass material. It is some badass material.

4:11:44BubblemanYou don't tell me that. That mountain is amazing to dirt bike up and down. The Blue Mountains, where all the coffee was there.

4:11:53SpeakerI want to get a 50-pound bag of that Blue Mountain coffee when we go to Jamaica so I can bring it back. We can do that, no problem. I just extracted some Colombian coffee from a company in Colombia that guarantees from the time they pick it till the time you get it is 10 days. And anyway, after extracting the oil out of it, which is where all the tannins and the flavors that I object to in coffee are, and afterwards the coffee beans, I ground up a few of them and made a cup of coffee and it tastes like hot chocolate without the oil in it.

4:12:31SpeakerAmazingly enough. So, I want to get a 50-pound bag of Jamaican Blue Mountain, extract the oils out of it, and when I was in Switzerland, I did that for Furmanation. We had this 50-pound bag, and it was amazing how many cups of really wonderful coffee we had from that.

4:12:47BubblemanGreat. Well, book your flights December 7th to 13th in Negril, Jamaica. I'll be there at the Roots Rastafari Festival.

4:12:58SpeakerAre you going to rent a house?

4:13:01BubblemanI was going to rent a house, but I was too late on renting it, and he already rented it out. So there is a really beautiful house that I could rent if a bunch of us wanted to go in on it. It's not cheap, but if a bunch of us went in on it, it would be pretty sweet. It's right on the cliffs. It's right next to my buddy's castle there, and it's the house.

4:13:20BubblemanHow much? It's the house I used to rent, actually, with Sam and some other people.

4:13:26SpeakerOh, shit. It's about $700.

4:13:30BubblemanHow much?

4:13:30SpeakerWe asked Colton to come to that, the roots thing. He should come. It's going to be amazing. Yeah, I'm 40. We're four people. He didn't say how much it is.

4:13:43BubblemanIt's your birthday too?

4:13:44SpeakerYeah, December 10th is my birthday, so I was like, yes, we're going to Jamaica for my birthday. Thanks, Colton.

4:13:51BubblemanAre you going to Jamaica?

4:13:52SpeakerNo. We would love to, but we don't have the money to do something like that. I have to sell a lot of sweatshirts to be able to go to that stuff.

4:14:03BubblemanWhere can people buy those sweatshirts?

4:14:10SpeakerWell, it's just boosters. We just put a booster up every now and then. You can go on coltonscrew.org and get sweatshirts and t-shirts and things like that. We don't have a whole lot of Thank you so much for joining us.

4:14:49SpeakerYeah, I have no idea how to say that. I say Saskatchewan, right? It's in Saskatchewan.

4:14:53BubblemanI'm just making jokes. There was a movie that Adam Sandler did where he had a character from Saskatchewan and he was making fun of Canadians in the movie. It was quite funny. But I grew up very close to that province. I was one province over about a six-hour drive away from Regina.

4:15:10SpeakerWell, we will be in Regina on December 3rd.

4:15:16BubblemanWell, damn, I wish you guys were going to be in Jamaica. That would have been awesome.

4:15:19SpeakerWell, if there's still hope. So where would you stay if you weren't renting a house there? Because for me to go, I got to have a place to go that has regular bed and everything because I got a CPAP machine and all the rest of it. So I can't sleep on the beach anymore. We'll get you a room, Josh. Listen, let me ask you something because that's like a torn thing for me.

4:15:41SpeakerThe Emerald Cup, Todd, is at the 8th, 9th, and 10th? Or is it 9th and 10th? Something like that. It's the same dates. You've got to unmute yourself. Yeah, it's 9th and 10th. Okay. Yes, I think it's 10 and 11, but I'll look. You're going to be there, right? 10 and 11, right? Yeah. It's going to be epic. I'm torn between Jamaica and...

4:16:10BubblemanI talked to Mark the other day and he's showing me my buddy Tim's got rosin machines at his house. He's already rented the booths. He's got the generator and the power. He's like, yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready. Let's do this. So I was like, okay, I'm coming. That's good enough for me. I'll just rent a house for a bunch of us to stay in and then we're good to go.

4:16:30BubblemanIt's Jamaica. Come on, everybody who's watching. Come to Jamaica. How fun will that be, December 7th to 13th, to chill out in the grill, go out on the boats for a few cruises, hang out? How long is it? It's just like three days. It's a beautiful event.

4:16:46SpeakerYou said from the 7th to the 17th.

4:16:48BubblemanWell, no, it's the 7th to the 13th.

4:16:50SpeakerTo the 13th.

4:16:52BubblemanBut it's from the, it's the 9th, 10th, and 11th. So I like to show up a few days before because I'm leaving from the West Coast. If I leave on the 7th, I won't get to Jamaica until the 8th. So the 8th gives me one day before the event starts.

4:17:09SpeakerThat's a difficult sell considering how awesome the Emerald Cup is. And it's going to be a celebration this year because even all the people that are fighting against 64 are going to relish in the legalization.

4:17:22BubblemanRight. Well, I mean, I've never been and I kind of can't go, so it's easier for me. But for Tony, it might be a hard sell.

4:17:31SpeakerIt's difficult because we do have some things popping off finally.

4:17:36BubblemanWell, I can only tell you this much. You will for sure want to be in Jamaica. Once it's all said and done, this is what you're going to say. Man, I wish I would have been there. So, that's all I know.

4:17:50SpeakerHey, Tony, I have a question for you. Do you have anything like what Colton takes in California? What does Colton take? He takes a 60 milligram CBD, 60 milligrams of THC per day. So it's just an oil. Is it sublingual or is it in capsule? We put it in capsules, but it's actually sublingual. What's it suspended in? Safflower oil. Sunflower oil? Safflower. Safflower. And what, is it both from isolates?

4:18:27SpeakerDo we have a CBD and a THC isolate? Yeah, it's just an isolate. Or two powders, 99%? No, not, it's not, no, I don't think it's isolate. I think it's just isolated. What do you mean by that? Is it CO2 oil? Yeah, it's CO2. CO2 oil. I think they do supercritical. Yeah, so this comes back down to, yeah, we do have that. It's our P3. So you actually have options in it.

4:18:57SpeakerWe have a lot of people that ask us from California what, you know, what can they get in California. And we always tell them to go to Prana, but we don't know what you guys, what you have. So, and plus if we go to California, we would like to be able to get medicine there. Yeah, so I just posted that website, actnowprogram.com. Okay. So you have options.

4:19:23SpeakerThere's five categories. So there's five categories and three deliveries. So you have sublinguals, capsules, and topicals. But you can build your own ratios and they're also offered in raw and activated formulas. And so like Marcus was talking about earlier, the raw is, these are whole plant blends that are categorized. So you can find out what those blends are on the website under Pronologic. There's like a products page called Pronologic.

4:19:56SpeakerAnd it tells you what's in there. So basically, imagine how we freeze-dried plants. So if you took your blends of Sour Tsunami, ACBC, and Harlequin, and you've broken down into a cryogenic kind of key for powder, and that gets infused into capric fatty acids, mostly C8, very little C10. But it's not like coconut oil, so you won't have an allergic reaction. So it's a hyperallergenic compound. Plant-based infusion, and then that gets infused and filtered and no chemicals, no CO2.

4:20:31SpeakerYou know, alcohol and you get pure plant blends. So you capture everything in the plant, the terpenes, flavonoids, cannabinoids, essential oils, nothing's lost in that process and it's all cold. And the active version is activated and then I run the terpenes on the plant material before. And so you imagine we have the profiles and vials and we restore those terpene profiles after the oil's been decarboxylated. So if you're getting raw or you're getting active, the idea here is to try to preserve the terpenes as your essential modulators for the plant, which is a lot of that is lost when people decarboxylate their material.

4:21:13SpeakerSo in CO2 oil, you're getting a decarboxylated one-to-one or activated 120 milligrams a day, and you're doing it in a capsule form. In that particular case, Uh, essential oil or fatty acids that you have, I think you said saffron oil? You said something like that? Um, but what I think what would be interesting is, um,

4:21:43SpeakerYou know, the ability to kind of have a little bit more options in that one-to-one. So you could use, say, you know, if you were adamant on it being activated and that was the way it worked for you, you could always have options now of non-activated and activated, seeing what the terpene profiles would do in that category. That one-to-one category that we have is a preset to P3.

4:22:10SpeakerSo it's... It's made from your purples, your broadleaf or your indicas, your OGs, and paired with like canatonic and ACDC. So it's like CBD, perps, and OGs, if you will. So you can take that one-to-one, or you can create your own one-to-one with the category P1 and category P5. And you can create... All of those varieties of that one-to-one, because in the P1 category, that's your Jacks, your Sours, your Chems, right?

4:22:42SpeakerSo if you paired that with your P5 category, you would have a totally different one-to-one than you would in the P3 one-to-one that we offer. So just basically a lot more options with more full-spectrum options, and the capsules are in 10s, 20s, and 50s, so you can mix-match them or stick to that ratio that you have.

4:23:06SpeakerThank you. We have a lot of people ask us about what's going on in California, and I don't know, because I'm in Colorado. So we always just kind of push them off to you. Yeah, so what we do is on that link that I gave you, the ACNL program is included in What we're doing is we offer extended patient services so you could get a nurse assigned to you.

4:23:31SpeakerSo patients that are new to cannabis or have a lot of questions about implications of interactions of other drugs, we offer that service for free. So patients can sign up. They have a patient portal. They get a nurse assigned to them. The nurse will walk them through the endocannabinoid system, how to use the different chronic products, and try to build a custom individualized program around their needs and their budget.

4:23:58SpeakerAnd then basically the most important thing that we found, we have over 10,000 patients now, I think,

4:24:07SpeakerAnd so, half of those probably are signed up. The other half of them are kind of free floating around the country. And they go to Oakland or they go to, you know, they go to Harborside in Oakland or they go to Emerald Room in Los Angeles in Melrose. And so we try to put those two retail distribution points, you know, in the two biggest areas that we get to.

4:24:30SpeakerBut, you know, what we found is like there are interactions

4:24:37SpeakerAnd I think that's what the most important thing. Everyone says, oh, take this, take that, combine it with this. You have to really look at the nutritional aspect, what your diet is, what kind of system you have, like you were talking about. Each patient has something different. Not everybody can process foods and nutrients the same way. And then you have to look at where is that patient at and what Drugs they're currently being prescribed and taking and what their goal is.

4:25:05SpeakerDo they want to get off of them? Do they want to reduce them? You know, are they getting no relief in life? And then thirdly, try to build something that caters to their sensitivity of THC or CBD because not everyone's the same. You know, we have sublinguals where they microdose one milligram and I've seen patients take two drops and completely feel their medicine versus You know, somebody might take 50 milligrams just to get sleep, you know?

4:25:36SpeakerSo everyone's different, and I think it's important that you have professionals to deal with that. And I used to be that guy that would, you know, see those patients in Colorado individually, and now I've found that assigning a professional and a nurse that deals with all of those aspects, you know, you just include it in services for patients because... Otherwise, it's kind of hard to keep up with everybody, and it's kind of hard to give them the right thing.

4:26:04SpeakerSo when you have people in Colorado, I'd say the easiest thing is have them sign up, and you can get help to them, point them in the right direction, and continue to follow them for absolutely no cost.

4:26:18SpeakerThank you. That will be great. It's very disheartening to not be able to send people to places that are trustworthy and know what they're talking about. So it's nice to have somebody like you guys out there and giving good medicine to people and explaining to them how it works and the drug interactions. And I know that the only drug interaction that we've had because he's only taken one drug since is a

4:26:52SpeakerNow I forgot what it was called. It's not Versed. It's Propofol. Propofol. When they gave him a colonoscopy, the THC, I guess, really messed with him because they thought that he had a stroke. So when his colonoscopy came up, the Propofol really messed with his system. And they were saying it was because of the THC, which could have been. Yeah, there's... The people on blood thinner medicine and different blood thinner types, I just put up the link with Mayo Clinic.

4:27:27SpeakerThey have a little bit of information on interactions. But yeah, by just getting the data, you know, it's nothing to hide. You just have to know. It's not like it's every patient, but like out of a pool of say a thousand, chances are among all the drugs that are out there, remember we haven't been able to study Thank you for joining us.

4:28:17SpeakerWasn't propanol the drug that Michael Jackson? Yes, sir. Yes. You got to be careful. The drug that killed Michael Jackson. Yeah, that was his final ticket out.

4:28:35SpeakerBe careful with those. Those are drugs that produce long-term effects that aren't really totally understood at this point in time. Yeah, we've found that some patients that we follow, that we just watch, are having a hard time with prednisone and endocort and azacol, those steroidal type medications that really, really help with Crohn's disease. And they're fantastic medications when it comes to getting somebody into remission, but Thank you for joining us.

4:29:47SpeakerYeah, I just, I take a issue with those kind of super potent drugs. And there's a number of them that come under that category. And I'm just always like, you're going to take profanol? Hey, think about that for a minute, or maybe even a few days before you take it, because it's dangerous stuff. A lot of people have passed on from it, and I think it has an accumulative after effect that hangs on to you, maybe because it's not metabolized, because it's a synthetic drug.

4:30:29SpeakerDid you see that new commercial that's out there for like Lufthansa? I can't wait till there's a cannabis commercial where it's like, take this and side effects are possible laughter, having a good time.

4:31:05SpeakerWhere can you score some of that? Like enjoying others and the company of others. All those side effects like euphoria, having a permanent smile, enjoying the food that you eat, enjoying every minute of sleep. I will have to say that if there's anybody that makes a commercial for that, that Colton would be the spokesperson. We got to do it.

4:31:34SpeakerThe marketing of pharmaceuticals has just become absolutely fucking absurd. And if you guys saw the 60 Minutes article where the doctor talked about all the negative things of cannabis and all this other crap, you'll see that the commercials were Lyrica, Budweiser, And the sleep medication. So, you know, the pharmaceutical companies basically sponsor a lot of the television that, you know, people are seeing. And, you know, these days when people are clued into their TVs because of the election cycle, they're getting a lot of dumb, stupid, bogus information.

4:32:13SpeakerYeah, that one, that's the one that I've seen too, big, the Lyrica. The side effects are two and a half minutes long. The commercial is three minutes long.

4:32:27SpeakerWe live in a medical dictatorship where they're actually marketing these medications to us. So we go into our doctors and say, oh, I heard the commercial on TV. Please give me that medication. I heard about that. Thank you for watching.

4:33:00SpeakerIsn't it great how that brings up that conversation with your family members when you're not really ready to talk about that and you're watching the baseball game and now you got to talk about, you know, what happens when it lasts four hours, you know, to your teenage daughter. You know, I mean, it's interesting because these are problems that I guess they have now, but, you know, we never have weird kids.

4:33:21SpeakerNow they're doing the vaccines. So now there's a Gardasil commercial out there that is like, You know, saying, mom, if you don't vaccinate me, I'm going to die. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that they're actually saying that kind of stuff. Because the research isn't in for that Gardasil shot yet. And there's been plenty of kids that have actually gotten cervical cancer because of that shot.

4:33:52SpeakerAnd I'm like, I go to the doctor and I have a 14-year-old daughter. She is not sexually active. I know this. And the doctor's like, well, you really should give her that shot anyway. So when she becomes sexually active, I'm like, yeah, but right now she's only 14. So why am I going to give her a shot for something that It's going to be a couple of years down the road.

4:34:16SpeakerLet's deal with that when it comes. But the shot itself is actually causing cancers in young women. And now they're saying to give it to your boys. I had my 14-year-old granddaughter watch the Viagra commercial, and she turned around and looked at me and said, Hey, Grandpa. What is a four-hour erection? And, you know, I don't think that kind of stuff really belongs on TV because that's a hard question to answer to a 14-year-old girl who is curious and we assume that she's not sexually active.

4:34:55SpeakerBut, you know, how do you feel the question like that, a four-hour erection? Just not, it's something that we didn't really need to know. It shouldn't have necessarily been on TV. I'm glad it's a warning on the package. Like cigarette stuff, if you smoke this, you're going to get lung cancer. That's a side effect of a medicine too because everything we take in is medicine. But there's choices and discretion is the key to understanding all this crap.

4:35:25SpeakerYou know, you have to be... Parent your children. Oh, come on. That's one of the biggest problems that we have out there is parenting your children. I'm still, my oldest son is 33 and I'm still parenting him. Thank you. He lives with me and works for me. Apparently, apparently Marcus is, I got this text message. The mouse is done. Please let everyone know. I cannot unmute. Thank everyone for coming in.

4:35:59SpeakerDoes that mean, I guess that means we're calling it. Is that two thumbs up we're calling it? Two thumbs up we're calling it. Well, it's been fun, Marcus. Thanks. Great day, everybody. Thanks for having us. All right. And on that, bomb rep, where are you at? Derek. Bomb rep, let's do it. Let's do it. Bye, guys. See you, Natasha. Bye-bye.

4:36:32SpeakerBye, everybody. Thank you. Bye. Bye, Natasha. Thank you for coming. Yeah, have a great day, everybody. Yeah, that was a little slow. That's okay. We'll see you later. Everybody. Have a good one, Darren. You too. See you, Todd. Thanks, Mark. Have a good one. Bye, John.

4:42:18SpeakerPlay the tunes.