Terpenes and Their Role in Cannabis

0:02BubblemanHey, hey, hey, everybody. Welcome to episode 112 of Hash Church. It's been another great week, and I am going to send out the links here so we can get this show on the road. Let's hope I haven't forgotten anybody here.

0:17SpeakerWe do with the Facebook, and we do the email on the road. Let's hope I haven't forgotten anybody here.

0:28BubblemanThere we go.

0:32BubblemanAnd we will send out the link through Skype. Always sending it out through a million different ways. So make sure it gets seen by everyone. I hope everyone's doing really good today. Another beautiful day in paradise. Geared up for Jamaica next month. Pretty excited about that, not going to lie. Let me find this box so I can actually see who's in the room. I bet you it's Etienne.

0:56BubblemanAnd it isn't. It's Chimera, Skunk Man Sam, Johnny B, and Todd. I have to admit, that was kind of surprising to come back from the page and see you guys and not Etienne.

1:08SpeakerI'll be playing for you, Etienne.

1:11BubblemanGreat morning.

1:18BubblemanI'll just wear my headphones because people don't know how to keep their mics muted. It's easier for me to keep my headphones on.

1:24Etienne FontanI think that should have been what I did right away.

1:28BubblemanSo I will do that. You guys feel free to talk. Hello, ATN. The floor is yours.

1:32Etienne FontanHello, everybody. How's everybody been on this fine, wonderful day?

1:41BubblemanYeah, echo, echo, because you don't have your mic muted. If you leave it unmuted, we get the echo, echo, echo. There we go. And there we go, headphones. How's my echo left?

1:53Etienne FontanYour echo is gone, and I would like to congratulate America on some legalizations across the United States, as well as some medical marijuana, and then we gave the world a clusterfuck in Donald Trump.

2:06BubblemanHey, you know, the funny thing is the few random things I've heard about the guy, not that I want to start talking about Donald Trump a bunch this morning, but the few little things that I saw, people were surprised, so maybe we'll be surprised. In the meantime, awesome news, America. Holy smokes. Eight out of nine states, as Todd educated me on a few days ago there. It's wonderful.

2:30BubblemanI mean, that's a step in the right direction, if you ask me.

2:32Etienne FontanIt's quite a sweep. I mean, if you really look at, you know, everybody was concentrating on California. And we were wondering, Arizona was on the fence, but it looks like it's going to lose in the end. They supposedly still counting, but when we look at the actual precincts, it still looks like it's all done. Who knows? We are very proud to see Nevada go the direction. We're definitely to see the breakthrough in Massachusetts and Maine on the East Coast.

3:00Etienne FontanMaine barely won, but made a difference. Hell, even out here in California, Mendo, Trinity, and Humboldt all voted for it this time around. In fact, we were looking the other day, Todd and I, and Trinity literally won by one vote.

3:16SpeakerWow. Yeah, huge thank you to that one person in Trinity County. Dr. Natasha.

3:24BubblemanWhat's that, Indra?

3:25SpeakerI wanted to ask Dr. Natasha a question, if I could.

3:28BubblemanWell, let's first say welcome, Dr. Natasha.

3:32SpeakerGood morning, Dr. Natasha. Use your words, Indra. Good morning. Say, about a year ago, I started using this spray on my microbiome, and it basically, bacteria that removed the Thank you for joining us.

4:16SpeakerI smelled really good and after hearing her for years go, you need a shower. It was a great switch. But anyway, those bacteria have made such a qualitative effect on my body. I'm just wondering if you could speak to that because it's something that I feel moved about because I mean the wrinkles in my face went away. I was having crust in my eyes in the morning when I woke up.

4:44SpeakerThat all went away. And just by spraying this other bacteria on my skin every three or four days. What bacteria was it? I don't know.

4:58SpeakerIt's Dirt is the site I think you can go to and find it. And they sell it. And you put it on two, three times a week. And the guy who invented it hasn't taken a shower in 13 years.

5:10Etienne FontanIs it a spray or is it a lotion that you rub on your skin? It's a spray. Certain sparks of the skin or the entire epidermis?

5:16SpeakerHang on. I'll grab the bottle. You spray it in your armpits and the other end of your body.

5:24BubblemanI like showers.

5:27SpeakerYeah, I'm going to throw, I'm with Mark. I'm going to stick with Starwarning. Well, what's interesting about what Indra's talking about, and I don't know the specific spray that you're talking about, but I've heard about these probiotic sprays, and I should bring one of my friends, Shauna, on. She's an amazing bacteria expert and could explain to us all the mechanism of what was happening. But in general, what these sprays are doing is they're shifting the commensal bacteria in your skin and your body.

5:56SpeakerSo those are the regular healthy bacteria that are part of you. Thank you. This, I mean, we could do a whole episode just talking about this. But what's really interesting is people, when they're born, they have something that they actually call a poo print. So kind of like your fingerprint. It's like your beneficial and bad bacteria that kind of make up a part of you. And a big thing that influences this is how you're born.

6:22SpeakerSo if a baby is born vaginally or through C-section, this changes the type of bacteria that naturally is around you.

6:33SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

6:53SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

7:23SpeakerThank you for joining us.

7:39SpeakerThank you for joining us today.

7:58SpeakerAnd so when people start using these probiotic kind of applications and even using like some of the products I make are more designed to build up your skin barrier so you don't have that irritation. And so what these bacteria are doing is actually changing not only your bacteria population but they're changing your skin barrier. They're changing the way your immune system responds. They're actually changing the nutrients that are being metabolized on your skin.

8:22SpeakerSo as Indra has experienced, this can have far reaching effects on your body and even simple things like how you smell. So yeah, I want to know more about the brand and what type you're taking. Let me tell you, it's mother dirt. And it's called AO Mist. And, you know, a lot of thoughts occurred to me, you know, like when a baby is born and breastfeeds the first time.

8:49SpeakerI know they get the colostrum, but besides that, they get the mother's biome because they're interacting with the skin. And so that transfers and kind of fires up Thank you so much for joining us.

9:21SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

9:42SpeakerAnd you take a good shower. I mean, I take a really good shower. And then I get out and spray myself again with this stuff because it makes a difference. You know, I'm in line at the supermarket and I see people don't look at me and go, Jesus Christ. Can I ask you, John, so are you using the AO Mist? Is that which one you're using? Yep.

10:01SpeakerYep.

10:03BubblemanA.O. Miss. Never heard of it, but I do want to welcome Judy Booth to the room. Would you like to give her a little introduction there, Natasha? Hi, Judy. I just met Judy the other day myself, and it seems as though I walked out of the room and you were gone, Judy.

10:18SpeakerYeah, so I just met Judy. When you met Judy, Marcus, that was my second time meeting Judy. So Judy and I had the pleasure of meeting a few days ago at UBC. I went to go do a talk. Judy can talk more about this, but someone from her lab was doing a talk on sandalwood and the terpenoids in the sandalwood tree, which was a really interesting topic.

10:43SpeakerAnd One of my friends happened to know Judy, so Judy's doing her PhD at UBC and she's studying terpenoids in cannabis. I was very excited to connect with her and invited her to come on Hash Church. And honestly, we haven't even totally chatted about everything she's doing. Thought we'd save it for the show. So more about what you're doing. And welcome. I'm studying terpenes and cannabis, but mostly from the plants perspective.

11:12SpeakerYou know, the lab I work in is a botany lab. And we work mostly on... Thank you so much for joining us today.

11:47SpeakerSo tell us about your work with cannabis. What are you looking at for terpene synthases or what's the scope of your project? So I'm working on terpene synthases from a genomic perspective in cannabis. So I'm trying to find all the terpene synthases in different cannabis strains. I'm working with Purple Kush as a model right now and just trying to figure out which genes are making the different terpenes and how they work.

12:14SpeakerAre you doing all your work in silico or is it in vivo? It's mostly in vitro. So we're sort of cloning out the enzymes, the little molecular machines that make the terpenes and testing them one at a time to see their terpene profile. And then we can map that back to the genome and see which genes in the genome are making the terpenes and when and where they're expressed.

12:39SpeakerSo is that work you're doing in conjunction with John Page from Anandia then? He's providing the resources for the project, yeah. Okay. So does that mean also that you're finding multiple versions of the synthases? For example, in skunk number one, there's a CBD synthase, but it's non-functional. Yeah, I actually haven't had the opportunity to work with cannabinoid synthases yet. No, no, I mean in the terpene synthases, are you finding multiple versions or non-functional versions?

13:12SpeakerYes, yeah, we're finding both, multiple versions and non-functional versions. And we're also finding similar versions in different strains that are not exactly identical but are similar to each other and make the same product so we can compare across strains too. So are you looking at plants that have been chemotyped, like that have had, I heard that you were doing GCMS for your analytical method. Are you doing that with different sources of flowers that have different terpene fingerprints?

13:41SpeakerSo for now I'm only working with purple kush because that's where we have the genomic data available. And then from there we can expand it out to other strains. What type of homologies do you see across the plant kingdom in terpene synthesis? I mean, certainly cannabis isn't unique in that it makes terpenes. All plants make terpenes. So what type of homologies do you see across the plant kingdom?

14:04SpeakerThe homologies are very high, especially the hops. Cannabis and hops are very closely related. Hops is in the beer flavoring compound. And we see similarities between cannabis and hops and also lots of other plants all the way down to conifers in terms of the structure of the terpene synthases and also the products that they make. I was wondering, are you guys growing the cannabis at UBC or are you purchasing with Purple Kush?

14:33SpeakerNo, Anandia Labs has a license to cultivate under the narcotics control regulations at UBC. Perfect. So that's how they're getting them. Is it organically grown or is it being used with synthetics? It's not organically grown. Not organically grown. Interesting. Just a couple of curiosity questions.

14:53SpeakerYeah, I was in Anandia last week. Oh, yeah? I got an interesting little setup going on there.

14:57BubblemanMm-hmm. Well, Dan, invite me next time.

15:01SpeakerYeah, I was flying back from Amsterdam and our flight came in late and I ended up staying over the night.

15:07BubblemanOh, nice.

15:09SpeakerI want you to come up the next day. How big is the grow there? Is it a decent size or is it just more? No, it's small. It's just a little small research grow in one of the lab rooms on campus.

15:22Etienne FontanJudy, I wanted to ask a question. What got you into investigating terpenes in the first place?

15:29SpeakerI was really interested in it from a food flavor perspective originally, like, because terpenes are in so many different kinds of plants, right, as we already said. They're the flavors in a lot of, like, spices, and they're behind a lot of wine aromas. So that's originally what I was interested in, but the opportunity to work on cannabis came up, and I jumped at that. I've already heard of cannabis.

15:51SpeakerThat was familiar. Right on. Yeah. You've been working on it for quite some time, right, Skookman Sam? Yeah? Sam, you jumping in here? Yes, I've been working on it a very long time. I've been intellectually thinking about terpenes as modulators and potentiators of the cannabinoids for three decades or longer. We actually started getting serious around 2000 when we got pure THC and were able to try it.

16:26SpeakerAnd then we realized that it's incredibly flat and boring even when it's 100% THC. Whereas a resin, dry sifted resin that was only 50% THC, Thank you so much for joining us.

17:06BubblemanIt's not about the percentage of the THC. It's about getting that full profile that produces not just a recreational enjoyment, but often sometimes a medical aspect that... Go ahead, disagree.

17:19SpeakerI disagree with one thing, and that is it does matter how much THC. When you smoke resin that's 50% resin heads... It can be quite pleasant, 40, 50% THC. But you smoke 100% resin heads and it could be in the low 80s. And you know it's different.

17:39BubblemanI just meant that it's not necessary to have it be 100. It's very different from monomolecular medicine that we're extracting. And isolating into the isolates like pure CBDA or pure THCA and then creating our own little mixes. Not quite the same as the complexities that cannabis brings us in these cannabinoid and terpene profiles. And so that's what I was trying to get at last week, just that there's something about why that connoisseur wants to get that best gland head isolated with perfect maturity.

18:12BubblemanAnd I think that sometimes it'll translate over to the medical platform as well.

18:18SpeakerIt helps if you have a perfect clone that you love in all terms including yield, flavor, effects. Yeah, absolutely. Mark, could it have something to do with washing the gland heads also removes the terpenes. And so you want to squish up the gland heads themselves so that you get the terpenes that are inside. And if you had a method to separate the trichromes that didn't,

18:51BubblemanWell, that's why we love dry sift, John, because when we make full 99.9% dry sift, there is no loss of terpenes whatsoever. Now, on a sidebar, I have been found over the years, when I first started making water hash, and I wasn't inspired by what I saw. It was very like what you just described, hash that had had its terpene profile eradicated Thank you for watching.

19:39BubblemanExceptional quality. And it really led me to start the bubble bag company and realize and learn about how certain cultivars produce terpenes that do not wash out in water. They are as present at the end of the wash as they were at the start of the wash. So there's also that, those two aspects of bubble hash and dry sift have allowed me to be quite a happy boy.

20:02BubblemanI'm not going to lie.

20:03SpeakerSo when we get to Jamaica, I'm bringing along with me. What I need in order to make what I call dry sift my way.

20:13BubblemanWell, are you coming next month?

20:15SpeakerWell, I'm 99.9% sure I am right now. I want to.

20:20BubblemanAwesome.

20:21SpeakerI want to in the worst way possible. I'm trying to get an appointment at my doctor to find out if it's okay if I fly. And if not, I'll have to take a boat or swim. But one way or the other, I'm playing on it. But anyway, I'll bring along the necessary materials to do that, and I hope to enlighten you and convert you.

20:45BubblemanIt would be historical. Enlightenment is a guarantee. Conversion, we'll see. I'm down for anything.

20:53SpeakerI just want to see you try it and witness it, and then turn around and say to me, hey, John, I love this. Yeah. Then I'll be a happy camper because I think we can go forward with it. You know, there's a lot of things we can do with it. It's not just stuck on one thing. That was my torch, sorry. Torch, what was that? Natasha, you gave me this little bomb stuff here the other day and I just tried it and I was going to ask you just how I can smell the terpenes in this and the essence of it, which is really amazing.

21:33SpeakerIt's kind of more uplifting and You said smoke some hash with it right away, so I was smoking out some Moroccan hash here. And I kind of want to know a little bit more about this because I'm feeling the relief of the tension in my neck in a period of the last like three or four minutes. It's just kind of easing up. So I'm sorry for cutting off, but this is actually all about terpenes and I want to kind of know more about it.

21:58SpeakerAwesome. I'm happy you liked it. I was wondering if you were going to if it was going to make it home with you when I gave it to you. You were in a very good mood. It was a fun birthday celebration. But anyway, yeah, so what's in there is I made that little blend just for you. So it actually doesn't have any cannabis in it. But how I've designed it is to target the endocannabinoid system and work complementary with cannabis.

22:25SpeakerSo if you use it after you've consumed cannabis, you'll find it works even better than if you're just using it without cannabis. So it works complementary. And so what I've done is I've put some... Thank you for joining us.

23:01SpeakerThank you for joining us.

23:27SpeakerI can't remember what the compound's called, but it's different than menthol, even though they smell pretty similar. They still have different anti-inflammatory effects. And then the eucalyptus has the eucalyptol, and then the lavender is high in linalool, and they also smell really pretty. And then another compound that I've recently started working with for pain relief is vetiver. So vetiver is amazing for perfume and that was mostly what I was using it for because it has, it's a really good base note.

23:53SpeakerIt has a very, like when you're making perfumes and aroma compounds, For pleasure, a major issue when you're using all organic essential oils and such is that they don't have a long stay and they don't have what's called a siage or throw. So for instance, when someone comes in with perfume and you can smell that after effect, it's hard to get that with a lot of essential oils.

24:19SpeakerAnd so vetiver is really cool because it has such a strong aroma and a lot of people Thank you for watching.

24:50SpeakerThank you for joining us.

25:14SpeakerBut I'm wondering even how they would combine and interact with cannabinoids because they seem to have their own Thank you so much for joining us.

25:48SpeakerI just put it on my neck and like I said it was uplifting to put it on my neck and because of the peppermint and the smells and those terpenes in it along with smoking some beautiful Moroccan hash.

26:10SpeakerIt just, it really works. So, you know, these are great things to talk about terpenes and how THC and terpenes work in conjunction for great pain relief. I would just kind of want to make mention, we're talking about terpenes and As you're talking, I tried this and I can just feel the effects. That might be the good hash too. We're great together, just saying. It's possible that together it's working very well because I was smoking the hash this morning while I was in my room working and I didn't get the same effects as what I got when I used this together.

26:41BubblemanIt was interesting vaporizing it the other day at the CCHQ and you guys had a little bit of the oil. Was that a diluted version, Natasha?

26:51SpeakerOh, so that was vetiver, but that was CO2 vetiver extract. So we got that from Devin, so hopefully he'll be coming on the show at some point. And yeah, so that was a CO2 extract of vetiver, so it actually smelt way milder than normal vetiver. Judy, you got to smell that one also. And so yeah, you can actually smoke it. And so Devin's company... All kinds of different things.

27:20SpeakerThey're just getting into cannabis, but the stuff that they work on is mostly vetiver and cinnamon. He even gave me a sample of sarsaparilla, which is a CO2 extract, which is amazing. Anyway, he was here and we were trying to dab these vetiver and the cinnamon, but what's really interesting is the CO2 extracts Like when you're thinking of inhaling cinnamon, you're like, Ooh, it's going to get really spicy.

27:49SpeakerBut the CO2 cinnamon extract, it's so lovely. It has like this little, Thank you for joining us.

28:16SpeakerOne, but again, the exhale, it feels very like you're almost like exhaling a rich cologne, like it's in a good way.

28:23BubblemanIt was nice. I mean, honestly, for me, it was reminiscent of being, having my gallery back in the day on Commercial Drive, the melting point. And having the inhalation station of vaporization set up, you know, 15 plus years ago, and having at least 20 different varieties of herbs that we had gone over next door to the Sweet Cherry Bomb, which I was right next door to, and they had a wall, like, of 100 plus different dried herbs that you could go and And, and, and smell.

28:50BubblemanAnd so really, we just went from the bioassay aspect. We didn't know anything about safety or dangers or any of that. We were just going from what, what our body said that was a really nice, pleasant feeling and, oh, I won't do that again type of thing. And it was pretty incredible, I have to say, like very ahead of its time, inspired a lot of different people to come and experience these essential oil modulations.

29:14BubblemanWe didn't even know that's what we were doing, but we knew that when we inhaled these Terpenes through these different vaporizers. We had the Aromed and we had the Volcano and we had a whole variety of them like half a dozen to ten different ones on the table. The Volatizer and it was a pretty cool concept to while of course we were using cannabis throughout the entire day, we were also vaporizing different types of herbs and plants and there were some profound revelations to be had in that experience.

29:47SpeakerNatasha, are you sure it was cinnamon oil that you were testing? Because cinnamon has not been used for a long time. I extracted for Roberta for a number of years. And there's another plant that is very similar to cinnamon. It tastes similar. It's a fast growing plant. That's what they've been using for about the last 10 years for cinnamon to put in food. I'll check the bottle to verify but I'm pretty sure it was cinnamon but it might be a different variety of cinnamon it might because I know there's like different types of cinnamon because it was nowhere near like I work with cinnamon as a pain reliever in the essential oil form like steam distilled and I would never inhale that I would not recommend inhaling that to anyone like it's and even like cinnamon powder like do not try inhaling that that's very risky yeah For some reason, this form of cinnamon, I don't, it was just the terpene concentrate, but I'm pretty sure it was a cinnamon.

30:47SpeakerI mean, I'll look in the bottle because it has... I know they call it cinnamon. It was cinnamon, but anyway, it is. They call them both cinnamon. One is wild in Sri Lanka, the other is cultivated in South India. And they give both what they call cinnamon quills. But one of them is real cinnamon, the other one is not. But it might not matter that much if the compounds involved are the same.

31:11SpeakerThe essential oil is going to be coming from one or the other. No problem. I'm sure you'll be happy to buy the second grade. I'll take the first one. That's true, Judy, but the cinnamon that they're calling cinnamon now that they extract from this very fast-growing plant that grows bark, Thank you for joining us.

31:50SpeakerUh, chemistry in the bark. Cinnamon trees are very slow growing is the problem. And all the cinnamon trees in China have been, uh, used for this kind of stuff for so many years that there's hardly any left. And that's why I was asking number one, number two, Judy, I'd like to ask you if you had any experience with hydrogenated terpenes. Only a little bit. Most terpenes in cannabis are not hydrogenated, which is a little bit unusual.

32:18SpeakerWe get a little bit of geraniol and linalool and some hydrogenated sesquiterpenes. Those are hydroxylated. You mean hydroxylated. You don't mean hydrogenated. Hydrogenated is a separate chemical step that you would do to unsaturated compounds. No, I don't have any experience with hydrogenated terpenes.

32:39BubblemanMark just filled out a patent for it. That's what. He's like the hydrogenated expert.

32:45SpeakerThat was a loaded question, John. Stop doing that. I was just trying to give you a hand from the side state.

32:55SpeakerOh, good. Wow. I got a question for Judy. What can you tell us about the terpene synthase in cannabis and evolution? Because, you know, you've probably read Hillig's work using terpenes as chemotoxic markers. What do you think that that says about the populations, the different populations around the world, and why there's such a variation in terpene production or terpene profile? Yeah, that's the big question, I guess.

33:19SpeakerBecause, like, the plant makes the terpenes first, and then... Humans sort of discover the use for them second. So in terms of the ecological role of terpenes, what they're actually doing for the plant, we have no idea. It could be sort of an antioxidant. There are pheromones that basically act to encourage beneficial insect populations and that keep bad insects away. Well, that's the theory. Yeah, I was just wondering if you had any evidence of that.

33:50SpeakerNo, I don't have, because there's also, there's other theories like that they might act as solvents for the cannabinoids, right? Because if you imagine what a trichome head would be like without terpenes in it, it would be sort of very gummy, right? The terpenes turned into a nice light oil. That's not why they're there though, because I mean, you know, humulus, the pops, the closest relative has huge amounts of terpenes also.

34:13SpeakerYeah. But they also have those bitter acids, which are sort of physically quite similar to cannabinoids.

34:21BubblemanWell, all this talk of terpenes has me dipping. I'm dipping some OG, Kush.

34:29SpeakerNice. I myself would presume that the majority of the different terpene smells in cannabis is because of human selection. Yeah. I mean, if you look at industrial hemp, it has little cannabinoids. Thank you. Thank you.

35:13SpeakerReally raising levels above what they would have been in the plant. You know, I'm also talking about doing incredible things too, like terpenes and cannabinoids are chemically related, right? They're made from the same chemical building blocks. So by selecting for increased cannabinoids, we might select for increased terpenes. Yeah, but that's not the case. We did a whole bunch of work on that. They're not tied one to one.

35:35SpeakerEverybody thinks that they are, but they're not. There's no direct relationship. High in terpenoids and low in cannabinoids. No, but they're both innate pathways that are existing in the plant and can be selected for by humans, which Sam's point was. Right, but my point is that you have to select from something that exists in the first place. You can only enhance what's there. And the evidence of that is that she's looking for multiple different terpene synthases that exist in the plant.

36:01SpeakerAnd my understanding was that there was upwards of 38. Oh yeah, probably more than 38, yeah. But that's not unusual in the plant kingdom. Many plants have upwards of 100 terpene synthases. Well, a lot of plants also have terpene synthases that produce multiple products. Yeah, which includes cannabis. So you might have, for example, a limonene synthase that makes myrcene also. Yeah, cannabis terpene synthases are like that too, actually.

36:24SpeakerSo which ones of you, I mean, we don't want to scoop your publication, but... I do, I do. What terpene synthases have you isolated? What synthases have you isolated? Um... I'm not going to scoop my publications either, but there are a couple like there's a limonene synthase, which also produces a fair bit of alpha pinene and an alpha pinene synthase that produces some limonene. We have a myrcene synthase and we have a synthase that produces beta caryophyllene and alpha humulene.

36:53SpeakerRight. Among others. Which for me, that's part of, I'm really interested in the idea of trying to breed cannabis strains that only have one terpene. And how that could even, because that would be great, but it should be really difficult because so many of these synthases produce like litters of terpenes all at the same time, right? Yeah, there's probably going to be some variation in the allelic series that don't produce multiple products.

37:18SpeakerWe spent a decade breeding single cannabinoid varieties, and then I focused on breeding single terpene varieties. But I only did a couple years of work and then I sort of pretty much retired. But that was my goal for the last decade was to have or attempt to make single terpene varieties. Did you get any? Yes, some exist. Yeah, there are some that exist naturally. I wouldn't know if you created them.

37:49SpeakerA couple were slightly tweaked and made too. Yeah, well, for example, AFGUI is like an almost exclusively myrcene variety.

37:59SpeakerBut most varieties are pretty complex in the terpene fingerprint. Once people had... And what I wanted was varieties with large amounts of THC and one terpene. That would allow people to decide what it is they like for medical, recreational, religious, whatever use you want. And you could also blend them if you had ones of the top 25 because they're for recreational and maybe for medical. Those are the really important ones, the ones that are in large amounts that people have traditionally selected for because they're effective.

38:40SpeakerWell, and you can tell that actually in the varieties that we've selected, you know, like for example, I know I keep saying this, but OG is a variety that is, you know, it expresses roughly equal proportions of limonene, beta-caryophyllene, and myrcene, all in relatively high titer. And, you know, limonene and myrcene are both known through our experimentation to, you know, interact with THC and create a synergy.

39:06SpeakerSo when you have a variety that is like 28% THC or, you know, over 30, 31% THC acid plus high levels of, you know, those three terpenes, you get a big effect from it, right? And that's, you can see that that's what we've already selected it because that's what the market prefers, right? That's why everybody loves OG. That's what I keep saying. It's a great pain reliever.

39:30SpeakerI look at those terpenes and those combinations with the higher THC and how well it works for pain. For me, at least, I've always paid attention to the higher THC levels with those specific terpenes. That's what I always seem to focus on. That's what works for me. Well, you know, the human being has an amazing ability to use the nose. It's more powerful than a lot of people give credence to it.

39:55SpeakerRecently, they did research where they took several guys, put t-shirts on them for a few days, took the t-shirts off, let a bunch of different ladies smell them. Some ladies would smell one t-shirt and go, yuck, and the other ladies would smell it and go, I want to meet him. Basically, what they boiled down was that women's noses have the ability to tell the difference in the DNA of different men, and they need to be attracted to men who have completely different DNA than they do.

40:28SpeakerAnd so these men smell sexy to them, and that's the story of Love and Marriage Gang. I hate to pour water on anything for anyone, but the nose knows. You know, there's a dating company in Vancouver that's doing dating based on that principle now. They're having these smelly t-shirt parties where you wear a t-shirt for a couple of days and then go to a singles mixer and smell everybody's t-shirt.

40:51SpeakerSo I can figure out how terpenes are really important in everything that we do. And by the way, every spice, every plant produces them. God, I've extracted, I've made 10,000 extractions over the years. And believe you me, when I've opened up some of the extraction vessels and got that load of pure terpenes back in the face, I had some very amazing days and real eye openers that you wouldn't expect.

41:19SpeakerYeah, well terpenes are semia chemicals, right? Semia chemicals, semia comes from the Greek word semion, which means signal, right? So essentially they're signaling chemicals in nature that they transfer information on a biological level. And we all know how terpenes or some terpenes can modify or potentiate THC and other cannabinoids. But a funny story is when I have a cold, I hardly ever get colds. Maybe once every five or 10 years I get a cold.

41:54SpeakerBut if I have a complete head cold and I can't smell anything, when I smoke my hash or my marijuana, I do not get anywhere near as high because I can't smell any of the therapies. Well, that's pretty interesting because I just got some cups from Israel that You put water in and you drink it but the cup itself smells like orange and when you tip it up to drink it the first thing you get is the smell of that orange and that sets your brain off and even though you're just drinking pure water Thank you for joining us.

42:52SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

43:16SpeakerThank you for joining us.

43:24SpeakerYou know, also depending on your smoking method, like if you're vaping, you're getting huge doses of terpenes right into your lungs. Maybe it's just a big reduction. All I know is if everybody thinks about it for one second, think about when you've had a really, really heavy head cold and you couldn't smell at all, and your nose was completely clogged up, and then you smoked. Did you get as high?

43:49SpeakerYou can't even get high at all when you've got a really bad cold, but you know what? There is a pressure point where you can open it up and then go ahead and enjoy the joint. Try doing the same thing with a cough drop in your mouth, which is loaded with menthol, and now you're going to get basically this huge rush because you'll have all this menthol in your oral mucosa, right?

44:09SpeakerWhat works the best is if you smoke the joint standing on your head under the ocean.

44:16BubblemanHow far under the ocean is required?

44:19SpeakerFive, ten feet's plenty. Oh, all right, all right. As I'm sitting here talking with you guys, I did a dab with the Kush Cleaner, which is awesome, great, uplifting, and I smelled the Kush Cleaner, and I also had this beside me, and I just took it outside, Elena, and she's going to say they smell very similar. These smell similar. Interesting how much I love the Kush Cleaner and how this helps me.

44:43SpeakerHe made this for me. It's just that synergy of terpenes that works so well and how, yeah, I know it's just kind of cool. Just very, very similar flavors. Kush Cleaner is killer. And this. Well, I'm looking for some Blue River Terps to add to that blend, so I'll try blending it with the. 100%. That's funny too, John, because if you think about it, I don't think any of the terpene she added are found in cannabis.

45:11SpeakerI know, it's just the flavor is just like. I'm not denying what you're saying is true. Yeah, I know that. It was kind of like while we're talking about this, I'm like, wow, this just happened. Like I grabbed that one particular terpene. And how they work so well together. I think this into here. There's limonene and there's linalool and beta-caryophyllene in that blend. So there are some similar terpenoids.

45:35SpeakerAnd probably some valensine too. Valensine is in that same biochemical pathway that makes those vetiver-based terpenes. So there's probably a little bit of that. There could also be Nucatone, which is the grapefruit terpene, right? So grapefruit terpene is very related to valensine in that it's just the oxidized form. But Nucatone isn't usually found in cannabis, is it? I don't think I've ever seen it in cannabis. Nucatone?

46:05SpeakerYeah. Is it in there? The grapefruit, the so-called grapefruit terps, as far as I know, that's Nucatone. Yeah, but it's not found in cannabis. I've never seen it in cannabis. You've seen Valensine, right? Yeah, for sure. Where there's valensine, there's nucatone. But you need an extra enzyme in between. You need a... I'm not sure. I think that you could actually biologically oxidize valensine up to... Oh, maybe.

46:31SpeakerLike caryophylline oxide. Dihydro-nucatone first, which is the hydroxylated material, and then that quickly oxidizes up because it's in conjugation. I vape caryophylline oxide nasty. Yeah. No, it's not pleasurable. Isn't that what they train the dogs on? Yes. Yeah. It is nasty. Which of these terpenes should not be inhaled at all?

47:00SpeakerI don't think there's enough safety data on that anywhere. With cannabis, people have been smoking them for hundreds of years. So if anything was really dangerous, people would know. My other question is this then. Is a terpene like a color, where a color can be light or at full spectrum, you know, or can a terpene be... You know, at 10% of a terpene's potential or 100%, is there a scale of terpene like there's a scale of color?

47:38BubblemanSounds like just dilution to me. I mean, the molecule is the molecule, right?

47:43SpeakerLike if it's on the plant and the sun hit it, one terpene would be at 20%, whereas another terpene could be expressing itself at 100%. Is there a way we measure this? Now, we only measure total terpene content and then the relative fingerprint. Hey, Todd, are you off the hook now? There's no hook, John. There's no hook. And, you know, the thing is, is, you know, John, I thought my, you know...

48:12SpeakerI was initially raided in 2012 and they charged me in 2013, way before there was ever Prop 64. And technically under medical marijuana laws, no, Prop 64 did not let me off the hook. It is most likely going to dismiss the case because like we saw in other legal states, the prosecutors just gave up.

48:35Etienne FontanTodd, please try replugging in your mic. You are wavy and we can't hear you. You sound like a robot.

48:44SpeakerWell, anyway, I hope they drop your case, buddy.

48:49BubblemanMe too.

48:50SpeakerYeah. We all do.

48:52BubblemanIt would definitely be strange if someone was like, I don't hope so. You're like, boom!

49:01Etienne FontanTodd and I were actually talking about this the other day because he would actually like to fight it, and he's got Tony Serra as his law. And, you know, it's when you've got... Can you guys hear me now?

49:11BubblemanYes?

49:12Etienne FontanYes.

49:12SpeakerYes. Technically under California law, it's the same as it was prior to anybody coming up with 64, and it's that you can go and present a medical necessity defense in front of a California jury, and you'll probably get acquitted if there's no guns or other drugs... Or other things associated with it. And I still think that's the same thing. What's probably going to happen though, John, is we're going to go in and it'll probably get dismissed because that's what we're seeing happen.

49:38SpeakerYou know, we're seeing prosecutors that have no heart to go after these cases anymore and they don't want to spend money out of their budgets. And in places like I am, Alameda County, with all the crap they have going on, I'm sure prosecuting cannabis people is a very low priority. So I've always expected it, and that's why I fought it to go away. And they're probably going to dismiss it.

50:00SpeakerAnd what A-Team was just saying is, I have always almost looked forward to it because Tony Serra is my attorney. He's been a hero to me since I started studying civil rights and I kind of was looking forward to sitting behind him as he went into a marijuana trial because I went to prison for five years and I'm not afraid of what could happen. Most likely, even if I lost, it would only be probation and if more people recognized what they were facing, more people would be bold and they wouldn't worry about All of these people are going to court, going through the system, coming home, growing pot, and then breaking the system through their just ambivalence to the ignorant laws.

50:40SpeakerSo nothing bad is going to happen either way. Also, the reason they don't want to prosecute you anymore, Todd, is because they keep ratings of every DA, and no DA wants to take a case to court and lose. I'd like to point out something else too. The people that were in power in the federal government are the same people that were going after BPG. They're no longer in office.

51:07SpeakerYou've seen a whole regime change happen and the people that have come in and inherited the dirty laundry of their predecessors, they don't want it. They're looking for ways to get rid of it. You know, I mean, we saw that with Harborside. We saw that with BPG. We're going to see that up and down the state now with state prosecutors because It's just not there. Are you going to bring a marijuana case in front of, you know, what is basically six out of ten people who have already voted to legalize the activity?

51:38SpeakerNot a chance. They're going to have to back off, bro, because they understand those guys are elected, too. And they want to get reelected, and they're not going to get reelected by prosecuting people like you for pot anymore. Pot is not, I mean, let's face it, it went legal, so. Well, in a state of 40 million, there are thousands and thousands of cases like mine that not only are people going to get out, but if anyone listening to this has a conviction in California for a cannabis crime, no matter if it was a misdemeanor or a felony, they can go to a lawyer and a lawyer can petition the court to have that removed now.

52:19SpeakerSo people that are sitting in jail right now are going to be able to actually petition the court for a resentencing. Thank you for watching.

52:41Etienne FontanYeah, we saw Omar was writing the other day on how a gentleman had already been sitting in jail and he repetitioned the court and the court saw that he had already served his six months that he was now sentenced to due to it being taken down from a felony to a misdemeanor and he was let go.

53:00SpeakerYes, so more people listening can do terpene research in their own homes by legally growing cannabis. And really, I don't want to say it rudely, but don't worry about the repercussions. I only wish everybody was willing to just face the court system and go through it. Because if we all pled not guilty and wanted trials, It would overwhelm them.

53:22Etienne FontanWell, let's be honest. The reason is because it's very costly and expensive. It cost me an ungodly amount of money to fight the United States government for three plus years. As well as you know, it wasn't cheap for you and you had a pro bono attorney.

53:36SpeakerI didn't have a pro bono attorney. I spent almost $50,000 on it. But the point is really that you can do this with a public defender. You don't have to spend money. You have a right to counsel. And literally, if you just brave it, People would break the system all over the country because this is something they could do. And realiztically, juries have the right to acquit.

53:59SpeakerYou just have to have the courage to go through with it. Well, we're wasting so much human resource by putting the guys in jail, paying to keep them there, stifling innovation because a lot of the people that are in jail for pot were real innovators and early pioneers. They were just the first ones to get swept up in the so-called Drug War. And if we let all of those people out of jail right now, the massive amount of money we would save, we could get rid of private prisons, which they're doing anyway, but close tomorrow afternoon if we let all the pot prisoners out.

54:33SpeakerAnd just let the police department focus on real crimes instead of busting hippies for smoking pot. I mean, the police already shoot a lot of innocent people. The two things they do is they shoot innocent people and they arrest hippies for pot. Those are the two major strengths that the police department have. That's why they've gotten all this new military equipment so they can drive your front door down with a tank.

54:57SpeakerOr throw a flash bang grenade in with your family. Well, I'll say this. Unfortunately, in my five years in jail and prisons, I didn't meet as many hippies as I did minorities. And the one reason I was so vocal about 64 Paskins because it takes away this, you know, marijuana nightstick so that cops could selectively prosecute against whoever they felt like prosecuting. If they didn't like the way you looked or the color of your skin or what was on your t-shirt, Mr. Science, they could turn around, make you cuff up, and arrest you for misdemeanor amounts of cannabis.

55:27SpeakerThat has now ended and I think that really there has to be an education about what our rights are now because we are all almost traumatized by the psychology of prohibition in California speaking in a way and in the United States. And now we're not going to have to act that way anymore because now if there is a half an ounce of weed in our pocket and we bump into a cop, that is totally legal if you're over 21.

55:53BubblemanAnd that's the most incredible thing that people always say, we don't need a license, it's a plant. It's like, okay, I totally agree with your utopian version of how it should be and I want that. In the meantime, when you say almost, I was absolutely like PTSD from being arrested and put in jail and had all my cannabis taken. And I was always very, very, very like paranoid after that of driving.

56:19BubblemanI would never smoke in my vehicle. I didn't want to carry anything with me. I became like paranoid of the police because I knew once you know, and it's not the end of the world, don't get me wrong, but it is a random thing that they can just pull you out of your life and then put you in the lockup.

56:35SpeakerThe whole thing about cops is... It's great when they're going after killers, bank robbers.

56:41BubblemanOh, no, I get that. I get that.

56:44SpeakerBut they use the same mentality when they're coming to a rescue for pot.

56:47BubblemanListen, and not only that, John, they do the same thing when they're coming to your area to apparently someone called in yesterday about a bear loose in Lions Bay, which makes sense because we live in a forest. And I drove down with my family and saw three RCMP out of their vehicles with assault rifles in their hands and looking super aggressive and mad like they were at like an armed and barricaded call or something.

57:14BubblemanBut I guarantee you it was a bear because they were looking at the map of our trail system and the lady was looking at the map while the other two were standing there with assault rifles and I thought... I thought that seems a little extreme. I've had bears on my deck. I didn't go run for a gun. Do the maps have bear trails marked on them? Well, the maps have our trails marked on them, and the bears, of course, use our trails.

57:42BubblemanThey're not stupid. They're bears. They're like, hey, look, there's a trail over here. We should use this trail instead of walking through the middle of the forest. What's that?

57:52SpeakerI was just wondering if beaver trails are marked.

57:56BubblemanI'm not getting, no comment on the beaver trails. I will say when people ask, does the bear shit in the woods, I will say yes, and almost consistently on the fucking trail. No, you don't.

58:08SpeakerI saw a bear and a rabbit taking a crap next to a small pond, and the bear leaned over to the rabbit and said, hey, do you have trouble with shit sticking to your fur? And the rabbit said no, and the bear grabbed him and wiped his ass.

58:25BubblemanI have heard this joke, of course.

58:26Etienne FontanDon't quit your day job, Andrea. Don't give up extractions, buddy. Comedy is not your calling.

58:33BubblemanHey, but you know what? I like the fact that his attempt was to make us smile. And if that wasn't the pure intention, I don't know what is.

58:42SpeakerSomebody out there in Hash Church land smiled. I smiled. A lot, but unfortunately it wasn't at the joke.

58:51Etienne FontanYou have permagrin over there, buddy. What are you talking about? You're just sitting in that chair smiling the entire time.

58:57BubblemanI've never seen him not smile on Hash Church.

59:00SpeakerI've never seen Hash Church with nobody smoking on the whole panel. Something's wrong here, guys. Are you kidding me? No, I'm here. I have some beautifulness here. This is rosin and dry sift made from the dry sift that I had here. So I was like having fun, but just can't even talk. So stable, just awesome.

59:25Etienne FontanI have a question for the panel. I was written by a gentleman by the name of Ian Medeiros. I was wondering if you guys could discuss the potential effects of cannabis in patients. Let's see. Using it to take TNF blockers such as Remicade or Humira. They are very popular treatments for patients with Crohn's, arthritis, and for myself, Irritus. I have been on 500 milligrams per kilogram of Remicade for over a decade, which is almost unheard of, especially in someone as young as I was when he started.

1:00:01Etienne FontanI'm more or less curious, is the activation and stimulation of my CB2 receptor May be counteracting the Remicade as cannabis may be a TNF inhibitor. If this is the case, do I stay away from high CBD cultivars that help my glaucoma or does the CBD help the Remicade by regulating the CB2 functions, therefore acquiring less assistance from the Remicade? I know a lot of people medicate for these reasons and you have yet to find any data on the relations between cannabis and TNF blockers.

1:00:33SpeakerYeah, that's horrible. Excuse me, clean your eyes and your asshole. Yeah, so TNF alpha blockers, so what they're doing is they're blocking TNF alpha. So this is a pro-inflammatory cytokine, tumor necrosis factor alpha. It plays a role in a lot of different things. It's an early immune modulator, so it plays a big role in fever, inflammation, bacterial infections. And it plays a role in a lot of these inflammatory diseases.

1:01:01SpeakerSo I can speak to it with regards to inflammatory bowel disease. The condition this person is talking about is an inflammatory eye condition. So that's also a major side effect for patients with Crohn's and Colitis because the inflammation in the gut spills over to the whole body and these patients get inflammation everywhere. So TNF alpha blockers are also used for patients with multiple sclerosis and other inflammatory conditions.

1:01:27SpeakerAnd they work pretty well. So what they do is they block TNF alpha. And so there's less of this pro-inflammatory cytokine. And so the question this person asked was how cannabis could work or if it was interfering with this. This is a great question. More research definitely needs to be done. There is no data looking at how cannabis and TNF alpha blockers work together. That being said, cannabis is, in general, anti-inflammatory.

1:01:59SpeakerThat's pretty much what the anecdotal experience has been, as well as self-culture experiments, animal experiments, and cannabidiol is... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:02:24SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:02:42SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:03:05SpeakerIt's hard to give you a specific answer and say yes or no because there is no research showing that but in general I would say it is not a concern and cannabis should be able to be used together and should be able to help you reduce your TNF blockers because it's also targeting inflammation and even with these TNF alpha blockers like Exactly how they're working is still not totally unknown.

1:03:30SpeakerThere's still side effects to these medications. And I know with Crohn's and colitis, up to 40% of patients lose responsiveness to these drugs. So they no longer work. And so that's part of the reason Researching cannabis for Crohn's and colitis to help patients who are unresponsive to these therapies. And maybe your dose that has to keep increasing, perhaps you're losing responsiveness because there's other, there's a number of TNF blockers.

1:03:59SpeakerSo, I mean, there's, they target them in different ways too. So it can get, this is a complicated question. Does anyone else have anything to add? Terpenoline also acts through TNF, I believe. So there might be... Pop me some terpene. But that's varieties like jack hair or train rack. So you might want to play with those varieties... No, but it's broad spectrum. Like cannabis has many different ways that it's targeting inflammation.

1:04:27SpeakerSo even like limonene has some activity in animal studies anyway, potentially targeting TNF alpha. Even linalool has some activity on these inflammatory compounds. So there's probably a multitude of compounds in cannabis that are affecting these pathways. But in general, they're targeting... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:05:00SpeakerPeople saying that THC can increase TNF alpha, that's not true. I haven't seen, there was one cell culture experiment where they showed some changes, but overall THC is also anti-inflammatory. It doesn't necessarily work in the same way. It does other things like other TH1 pro-inflammatory markers like interferon gamma, THC can suppress. So in general, the cannabis plant is anti-inflammatory. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:05:55SpeakerCheck out a variety like Trainwreck or Jack Hare. See if you can find a variety that has terpenylene in it. And just play with it and see what it does for you. There is no science on any of these really, you know. Cannabis has such a wide variety of conditions that it can work for. We just haven't done all the studies. There hasn't been enough science behind a lot of the different studies.

1:06:20SpeakerSo it's really still up to the patient to try and use science to Look for varieties that are going to work for them is the way I look at it right now because we just don't have that science that says it does this for this condition.

1:06:34Etienne FontanIt's so subjective too. That's one of the frustrations that we find when a patient shows up and they're like, hey, I've got this specific condition, so tell me what type of cannabis I need. I'm like, well, here you go. We have to start the trial and error, which, And that's why the great thing about now starting to get the breakdown of terpenes and this deeper understanding besides THC and CBD, it's helping patients start to narrow things down a little better.

1:07:00Etienne FontanI mean, it's just another mechanism to help start narrowing the field down.

1:07:04SpeakerBut don't you feel that the, you know, what works, like I can take an aspirin, you can take an aspirin, your headache will go away, mine won't. It doesn't mean aspirin worked or didn't work in a sense. It means we have different biological systems that handled it differently. So, I mean, isn't that the case with every single variety or mix of It's almost every single person, yeah.

1:07:28Etienne FontanIt's so subjective to every individual, and that's why when people say, well, what is the cancer bud? What is the this bud? And it's like, people, that's where we have to bring them down to earth a bit and say, there isn't a cancer bud, there isn't an anemia bud, there isn't a specific flower for a specific condition yet. We don't have double blind studies on anything that can confirm any of that, and everything that I know is anecdotal and trial by error, correct?

1:07:52SpeakerWell, marketing, you know, and marketing says, you know, hey, this does that, this does that, and this does that. So when they walk into your place looking for something to cure the that that they are talking about, it's because they're conditioned by marketing. Sorry, Sam. No problem. We did do double blind tests with organoleptic survey before and after for only the top 10 or 12 terpenes with THC.

1:08:28SpeakerSo that's, as far as I know, all that's happened. And that was done, gee whiz, well, more than a decade ago. Well, and there's 50 years of research on the biological activity of terpenes. So the biological activity of terpenes is well known and documented in the literature. And so even in humans, in clinical conditions. So the hints are out there that we just have to put it all together.

1:08:59SpeakerAnd one thing we can say for sure, because I had a dozen subjects who took these tests with me, all double blind, so they had no idea what they were trying. But when it was spiked with THC, so we spiked the smallest amount of a single terpene that we could, and they all agreed almost 100% on the type of effects. So they would agree that limelene was up, clear, speedy, bright.

1:09:31SpeakerThey would agree that myrcene in large amounts was...

1:09:37SpeakerMore couch lock. And they also agreed that both limelene and myrcene potentiated THC and made it stronger. Also pinene, they said, made it stronger. And a few other things. Mostly they were directional. So they modified THC to very different directions, more than potentiating. Yeah. I mean, what is known is that, you know, the things act somewhat as solvents to start increasing the fluidity in the bilayer. And so you're going to start getting just channels getting turned on.

1:10:22SpeakerAgain, I liken it to opening the windows at your house. You're just going to start exchanging information between the interior and the exterior of the cell. So along with that, I think goes up regulation of cannabinoid receptors because things are just turning on. Things are just happening. And terpenes are known to do this. They intercalate into the bilayer and they just make stuff start going through the membrane that wouldn't normally go through.

1:10:48BubblemanThey intercalate into the bilayer.

1:10:52SpeakerWell, if they fit in there. They increase the fluidity is what the authors in the paper said.

1:10:57BubblemanI preferred it the first way that you said it, so thank you.

1:11:01SpeakerThey are actually part of the basic mechanism of the universe, which is cannabis osmosis.

1:11:13BubblemanIndeed. I love the random quiet moments of Hash Church.

1:11:20SpeakerYou know, somebody just wrote me from Maine saying that they're limited to two and a half ounces of flour and how is that possible when you're able to grow six flowering plants? And I think that a lot of the fantasies that the legislation has come up with about plant limits and the amounts we can carry in time will just erode away. Thank you for joining us.

1:12:07SpeakerThe smelling of marijuana is not probable cause to search. So if you have more than an ounce in your bag, you don't have to consent to a search because the police officer smells marijuana because you have a different basis of rights now.

1:12:21Etienne FontanWell, also with your discussion is, yeah, we can move these lines. See, you can now, the line is a discussion point. You can now lobby their local municipalities as well as at the state level and start changing things, such as here in California, we need to change now the criminalization between 18 to 21. We also need to raise the eight grams. There's different, you know, for concentrates, there's different things now because we now have certain lines in the sand that have completely changed the discussion.

1:12:54Etienne FontanNow we can start working on those discussion points and start, you know, triangulating and hitting these effectively.

1:13:01SpeakerMost of the state police here in California, if you're not an asshole when they stop you, They're not going to have anything happen. I was in a pickup truck with my son, and we were behind a bunch of motorhomes, and the bicycle racers on the coast had the traffic blocked for a little while. And then the bicycle race went by, and the trooper looked back and saw us sitting in this little truck, and he says, come on up.

1:13:30SpeakerAnd so I drove up, and he says, I'll tell you when to go. And my window was rolled up because we'd been smoking pot.

1:13:38SpeakerI said, okay. And he said, no, roll your window down. And I said, no, I can hear you. And he said, roll your window down. Probably rolled the window down. And he goes, sir, I smell marijuana. And I said, that's my son. He's got a license to smoke it. And he smokes for pain. And by the way, I'm taking him. The doctor now about that. And so I hand him Johnny's 215 license out the window.

1:14:01SpeakerHe reads it, hands it back to me and says, OK, but that's no that doesn't mean that you can smoke it. And I said, whatever gave you that idea? And so he waved us on and we drove off down the road. But in the backseat of the truck, we had like four kilos of very good oil. And I love that. But you know what? That is, yes, that is what happened.

1:14:22SpeakerThat's last week. And in a sense, the part I didn't like about decriminalization or medicalization was selective prosecution. And, you know, if he likes you and you're cool and you're smooth, you roll. But if he doesn't like you, pulls you over, rips your car apart, finds those kilos you just mentioned, and, you know, you've got a case. And that's... I'm very cute though, Todd. Oh no, and you're smooth too.

1:14:45SpeakerI'm sure you get right through it. But unfortunately, I think that these laws have been used so selectively and that's the part that really disheartened me. Selective prosecution is an ugly social injustice that I think we all have to be realiztic about the fact that it hovers around marijuana prohibition like stink on a dog. As long as we have this...

1:15:10SpeakerWay of looking at things for grabbing people and putting them in jail. That's a business and you're interrupting a business that these guys have going and they're not happy about that. And the selective prosecution is about they take a look at you and see you're not going to be able to fight back. So we're going to prosecute your ass and And also you've got a bunch of people who've got their own thing to grind and they're after enemies or people they don't like.

1:15:40SpeakerOr maybe the wife said this person is an asshole and he looks for him and gives him a ticket. It's humanity at work and at its worst, which seems like what we keep rising to the occasion on that one. We keep lowering the bar. But hopefully this legalization, although I disagree with some of the points of it, hopefully it takes more and more power out of the hands of those Who do perpetrate things like that and who use justice as a tool to adjudicate their own personal emotions and lives.

1:16:13SpeakerYeah. And you know what? I'll second your emotion that I don't like parts of it too. You know what? And this will sound funny, but I don't think that they should have held back 60 months on the tier five licenses. I think that people need cannabis and I've caught mega shit for say in corporate cannabis, but you know what? I'm an organic vegetarian, but I'm not afraid of corporate broccoli.

1:16:34SpeakerAnd I wouldn't argue to make canned broccoli illegal, you know, to boast to the market of, you know, small broccoli farmers. It would be ridiculous. And, you know, I think that the chemicals in cannabis would help society a great deal. And I really wish there were canned cannabis in every supermarket and people could buy it, pick it up, put it in their food, get it in their system, stop drinking, stop popping pills.

1:16:59SpeakerIt would be a better place. They canned broccoli though? I mean, that sounds as tasty as say canned liver. Well, you know what? Look, I don't smoke mid-grade weed, but you know what? I wish it was there for society. 59 cents a can, buy your mids. I would be thrilled for people. They would be happy, you know?

1:17:19BubblemanDude, Irv was so happy with his mid-grade to even potentially lower than mid-grade 300 joints a month. We're all trying to figure out a way to get him something better, and he's like, guys, it works for me. I'm happy with it. So you're advocating Soylent Green?

1:17:36SpeakerIs that it? No. No. Mark is mentioning about the government-grown pot that goes to the one of two legal recipients from the federal government. It's named Irvin Rosenfeld. And they give him pot that's sometimes four and five years old because it shows a manufacturing date and then the date of his prescription is like four years later. So they're giving him really subpar cannabis and it's helping him with his medical condition.

1:18:00SpeakerWhich in many ways shows that it's the chemicals in cannabis. And we're here talking about the terpenes and the nuances. But these cannabinoids are doing some really beneficial things to the people who are brave enough to put the cannabis in their bodies. And that's why I am not against corporate cannabis, canned cannabis, cheap cannabis, mid-canned. I'm not against cannabis at all. How about Soylent? Are you against Soylent?

1:18:27SpeakerCorporate Soylent? I don't know what that is there.

1:18:30Etienne FontanThere's an actual food that's actually called Soylent, which is actually just a water add food, so you have to be specific what you're talking about.

1:18:40SpeakerI would call it a no. I'm a food snob, John. For 20 years, I've been annoying my friends everywhere we go out to eat. Vegetarian, organic. Me and Mark. Not me. Me and Mark do well together. Love you too, bro.

1:18:58SpeakerOh yeah. Because in the future, you're going to be able to buy cannabis at Uncle Sam's Christmas Tree Farm turned cannabis farm. Emporium. 10,000 acres with 1,000 plants on each acre. And you just walk through with the guy and he saws down the one you want like Christmas trees? And you take it away on your pickup truck. Can I ask the panel, like guys like you, Camara, What's up?

1:19:26SpeakerI'm so sick of hearing Monsanto's making killer weed and I just feel that cannabis doesn't lend itself to ever a corporate takeover because I was a little 13-year-old boy growing weed in my closet and I was happy with the outcome. Not that hard. And is there any proof that Monsanto is coming in to take over our ganja? Anyone? That's ridiculous. They're not going to, they wouldn't do that.

1:19:49SpeakerThey have too much to risk at this point in time. And they have enough money to just buy whoever becomes the leading guy. So no, they're going to be one of those companies that sits on the side for the next however long until it's fully legal. And then they'll jump in and start acquiring people like Scott's did. Well, could I argue that it's not possible? There's so much cannabis in public domain, so much diversity, that how could a corporation come and say, I've got your Marlboro?

1:20:14SpeakerWe would all look at them and laugh.

1:20:16BubblemanWell, they wouldn't take it over, but like he said, they're going to wait for the people who grow the best and find themselves in the highest positions, and you'll see them come in and scoop these companies up, might be five, ten years from now. So that's fine.

1:20:30SpeakerSo there can be Budweiser's, but nobody's going to come along and steal beer away from the people. It depends on what, yeah. Well, because it. Santo bought up all the goddamn soybean farmers everywhere that way. So what makes you think they're not going to jump in when the time is right and buy up all the pot farmers? But can we all say that jumping into a market is very different from like the potheads fear of it's they're going to come and take over our ganja, which is I feel not possible.

1:21:01SpeakerWell, you're my hero, but reality sometimes is a cold shower when you need it. And I think that fact you mentioned has a dark side to it as well. Which one? You think Monsanto is going to come along and grow tons of weed and put it in cans and sell it at supermarkets? Could happen. No. I think eventually down the road they'll decide to acquire things. They don't jump in when they jump.

1:21:31SpeakerAll the earth around for miles shakes because when they make a move, they make it very big, very aggressively. And what will happen is when they do decide to get in, we'll be sitting around wondering how the fuck they got in there and got that much control so fast. Well, but that's again, we have to buy their product. I mean, I always thought McDonald's would cease to exist if everybody did what I did, which is not give them a penny.

1:21:59SpeakerDid it work? No. We vote with our dollar louder than we vote with our voice. We just shifted the way we spend money. Right now, Americans are eating, I think, 90% of the corn is GMO, 100% of the sugar beets is GMO, and huge percentages of all the other major crops. I mean, Americans just shovel it down. We're not allowed to know on a package if it is or not.

1:22:29SpeakerRight?

1:22:30BubblemanAnd corn is in everything. I think they make like 20 or 30 different things from corn.

1:22:36SpeakerAnd don't forget corn syrup.

1:22:38BubblemanWell, that's just one of the like 20 plus things. If you look at the corn facility, the processing facility, Michael Pollan writes about it in The Omnivore's Dilemma, how you go back to the outside of this facility and there's just all these different pipes that are like spewing out different products that basically... Are the filler, much like peanut protein isolate used to be the filler for everything, that's just massive amounts of that shit got consumed by Americans over the course of the last hundred years, like mountains of it.

1:23:11BubblemanAnd now it's corn.

1:23:11SpeakerIt made a lot of hemorrhoids.

1:23:13BubblemanWhat's that?

1:23:14SpeakerThat peanut stuff created a lot of hemorrhoids. I think the number, Sam, for how much corn is GMO is more like 100%. I don't think it's 90% because there's not 10% people out there trying to grow.

1:23:32SpeakerYou could be right. I'm looking at numbers from a few years ago because I've been members of several groups that have been concerned about this for decades and we saw it coming. We saw the globalization of the seed and pharmaceutical companies and that is the way of the future but you don't have to be part of it. You can join groups like the Seed Savers Exchange and they sell open pollinated heritage brand everything.

1:24:07SpeakerOr you can get it for free if you're a member. I only use them. My garden has only heritage plants growing in it. I mean, when I grow tomatoes, They not only taste like tomatoes, when you're walking out to get some of them, you can smell them from 50 feet away that they're tomatoes already. My wife's a tomato grower and she loves Cherokee Purple and Brandywine. But they both split to a bit.

1:24:38SpeakerYou know, I mean, sometimes it's hard to get them into your kitchen before the skins are splitting. So I can see why the store people don't like them because they don't care about quality. They care about profit. Yeah, they care about longevity. How long will that sit on the shelf before it goes bad? That's sad because by the time they breathe the smell and All of that out of the tomato.

1:25:01SpeakerSo it will sit on the shelf for three weeks. It tastes like a cucumber. And you just, you know, heritage tomatoes. I grow the little ones. I grow the aromas and the beefsteak ones. And when I cut one open in the kitchen, I mean, you can just smell it all over the house. And it makes a huge difference. I don't like corporate grown tomatoes, Todd. Sorry.

1:25:32SpeakerNo, John, I don't either, but that's my point. My point is that even though I'm not a customer for canned broccoli, I'm not arguing to keep it illegal. And I think that vegetables are good for people, so I think there should be in every store. And I feel the same way with cannabis, is my point. It's not that you have to eat canned tomatoes. It's just that there's a place for them in society.

1:25:58SpeakerI understand that and I'm with you on that one. I just, I have a lot of objections about processed food and so that's a long story.

1:26:08BubblemanYeah, there's both sides to the coin for sure. I mean, I'm not a big fan of them myself, but if you're like growing up in some harsh environment that you don't have access to anything else, then the access to that becomes fairly important just to at least still have access to something that would be considered a vegetable is probably better than something that is not a vegetable at all.

1:26:28SpeakerWell, can I add a nuance to this? And it's that, you know, in the mid-20th century, we realized the importance of vitamins and minerals and we started putting them in our foods. And it helped us amazingly. And now cannabinoids are doing the same thing. And imagine if people get access to cannabinoids on the level that they really got the access to vitamins and minerals in the 40s and 50s.

1:26:51SpeakerAnd it really revolutionized the way we ate. Because now these cannabinoids may well be the preventive medicine we need to balance our bodies if the endocannabinoid system is at all correct when it's showing us and it's important. And Todd, is that going to take away any of the fun? I mean, we used to be the outsiders, the outlaws, the people living, you know, in the shadows. And, gee, some of that was fun, at least a little bit of it.

1:27:21SpeakerThe outlaw shine is going to diminish a bit, bro, yeah. I'm happy. It's hard to get a suntan in the shadows, though, isn't it?

1:27:32Etienne FontanWell, it's like Calio, you know, it's a great cannabis. You can grow. However, it's not one you want to smoke every day, but I could see a lot of new smokers if some large corporation were growing it and the attraction to that genetic as a first time try. Because it's something that's light, not necessarily heavy, but it has a familiarization because of the scent of orange that's there.

1:27:59Etienne FontanBut, you know, the THC isn't high. It wasn't one of those that I would smoke, but I would grow it in my stable because people liked it and I wouldn't use it myself. So that's just how it was.

1:28:13SpeakerI've got Calio from back in the 70s.

1:28:16BubblemanYeah, I've always appreciated the smell of it, that's for sure. Walking into Shanti Baba's Greenhouses in Bellinzona in like 2002 or 3, and he had an acre under a glass of Callio like seven and a half weeks into flower, was, I mean, honestly, I teared up. Like, it was amazing. I was with Bog, Bushy Older Grower, and I was with Gypsy Nirvana. And Shanti Baba. And it was an unforgettable experience to walk through some of those greenhouses, especially that Calio one and just be, the smell was so good and so uplifting and incredible that it was just, I mean, the jokes that we were making were absurd.

1:28:59BubblemanBut man, spending the night in that greenhouse would have been something. It was truly.

1:29:04SpeakerWas that yours, Calio? Yeah. Calio skunk because really a lot more of those were made.

1:29:13BubblemanYeah, no, I'm pretty sure I'd have to ask Scott, but I would say 9 out of 10, it was a pure Calio. It wasn't what was considered strong, like Etienne said, for smoking, but flavor-wise, to have it burning in the room or a bag of it or just have a taste of it was definitely...

1:29:32SpeakerThat was given to me by the grower breeder at a harvest festival in Santa Rosa in the late 70s, early 80s. And he gave it to me to run with. And yeah, at the time, I thought it was my favorite cannabis. Because it was an Indica Sativa Hybrid and really reminds me a lot of skunk, although they really have no similarities in smell or taste, but they were both very strong, vigorous, really nice to smoke Indica Sativa Hybrids.

1:30:09BubblemanI like when Sam gets serious that you see his hands come out onto the camera with the dabber and then he's like, all right, this is serious.

1:30:16SpeakerMy mouth must have been Italian.

1:30:19BubblemanThat's awesome, man. I love it. Don't ever change. 792 people watching live right now. Episode 112 here on Hash Church. Got a whole bunch of people chatting it up in the chat room. Good stuff. Yeah, an hour and a half of good conversation so far. I love it.

1:30:37SpeakerCan I bring up one other little thing? Everybody that's in California who doesn't have a California medical card should go get one because they can now avoid having to pay the state sales tax on medical cannabis purchases. Could you explain that there, ATN, please, Mr. Have a Pop Club?

1:30:56Etienne FontanYes, because I also went and got my card because I myself am also exempt. And so I made a purchase the other day and I saved $35 in taxes by having my state issued card. So here such as in Alameda County, you have to make an appointment. So you need to have a copy of your doctor's note. You need to have a... Current ID, that's California ID.

1:31:21Etienne FontanYou also have to have a proof of residency, which is some sort of a bill or something specifically to that address within the last 30 days. And then you have to also download paperwork and fill out a form. But for Alameda County, it costs $103 for the actual card for one year. And they changed the card. It no longer has your name on it. It just has an ID number.

1:31:45Etienne FontanIt has your picture. And it's more for if law enforcement has a number on there and it calls in and verifies that you're in the state database. So this is... It also lets you have entrance into... Any dispensary. Now, currently with the new law that just went into effect, no one is selling recreational cannabis. Recreational cannabis sales won't start until January 1, 2018. So we're dealing with local municipalities and various situations currently.

1:32:19Etienne FontanBut I do recommend the state card because I made purchases, like I said, the other day and I saved $35. So just two more shopping times and I'll have paid for my...

1:32:29SpeakerYou do realize that there's a ton of people selling recreational pot in California.

1:32:36Etienne FontanOh, yeah. And it hasn't stopped. It's been going on before the law, and it's not going to stop, you know, since the law has changed. Like the black market's going to somehow go away. But in time, the prices, equality, and change will all change to the complete dynamic.

1:32:53SpeakerWhen will the law allow six plants for each individual?

1:32:57Etienne FontanOh, you can start growing immediately, such as...

1:33:00SpeakerIt's already now, today. Yeah, it started... Midnight.

1:33:03Etienne FontanMidnight after the election. The law passed. Those went into effect, such as for us, we received the next day from the Board of Equalization stating... Do you have a database with all the mailing address of all the adults in California?

1:33:16SpeakerI'll send them a present.

1:33:19Etienne FontanNot yet. So right now we're just dealing with educating people that, you know, we can't serve people over 21 yet. It's one, the city of Berkeley is all, most of these cities have passed moratorium saying, no, we're going to hold off on cannabis until we decide what legislation we're going with. So even here in Berkeley, they have to decide on how they're going to regulate it, as well as the state.

1:33:43Etienne FontanThe state has to decide what they're, These circumstances, because I don't know if medical sellers will be allowed in the recreational market or will it be like... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:34:17SpeakerAnd you will find at least 100 people who will deliver to your door pretty much any amount and a variety of... That's been going on for decades.

1:34:28Etienne FontanNothing's changed.

1:34:29SpeakerAnd the thing is, under medical, you still have the right to present your defense. This doesn't change that at all. I've called them all. Not a single one of them would deliver to my house. Yeah, I have the same problem. I don't live close enough to where it's mostly Eureka and up in that area that the Humboldt Craigslist is proliferated with people who are selling everything from clones to freshly cut whole plants.

1:34:57SpeakerWell, everybody's confident. You know, see, and this is the thing that bothered me. The loudest voices against legalization are coming from within the cannabis community. I mean, and that to me is troubling because, you know, when I started arguing with these people who are against 64, I started asking them, are you under 30? You know, and a lot of them, yeah. Oh yeah, so you were 10 years old when we passed 215, and you don't even remember what it was like to live under the draconian drug laws that ruined many of our lives.

1:35:26SpeakerAnd now they've been making money the last few years, they think everything's groovy, they use Craigslist, their friends don't get busted, and they want to keep it this way. And that creeps me out. It really creeps me out, because they're not seeing the bigger picture. When they're arguing against social change, it would benefit them, like we just had. When those people... When that all started, those people were still shitting green stuff in their diapers.

1:35:54SpeakerAnd so you have to understand their point of reference. And they don't have the understanding of the history. Because, listen, I can remember thinking back when I was 20. At that point in time, like you could sit on a bench in Berkeley, smoke a joint, police car would drive by, cop would shoot you the peace sign. Then 10 years later, same cops, same bus stop, you whip a joint out and start smoking it and all of a sudden guys attack you from everywhere in ninja outfits.

1:36:29SpeakerAnd time keeps changing and changing and changing. And I got to the point, actually, when I was around 60, I thought, I wonder if ever it's going to be legal. And so for me, when it turned legal, although I have objection to a lot of the ways they express it and everything, it was a start. And it actually sent a shiver through me because I realized that I had lived this long because I was waiting for pot to get legalized.

1:36:59SpeakerWell, you saw it. Congratulations, man. Yeah, congrats, John. It feels so liberating to be an end to slavery in our own small way, you know, and I do liken it to us being enslaved, going to the prisons. It's really shitty the way they steal our stuff and they rob us and they rip our families apart and all over a flower. It's just unfathomable, really. Yeah, it's not humane.

1:37:27SpeakerThat's the problem with it. It's completely non-humane treatment because you're ruining a family's life over a plant and Plants and animals shouldn't be illegal. When I started smoking, it was 1965. And the police at that time, they objectified pot users. In other words, you weren't a human being that deserved compassion. You were a person who was obviously some sort of a deviant criminal and deserved to be punished.

1:38:02SpeakerThat's right. Hey, Sam, I beat you by one year. I smoked my first joint in 1964 in Vietnam. Yeah, well, you were in Vietnam, so I'm not sure I would have gone to smoke a joint a year earlier. Yeah, and you were also under fire. Come on. Guess what? That joint still got me very fucking high. That I can believe, because you were probably smoking Thai weed.

1:38:26SpeakerI was, and I didn't know it. We were both hiding behind wheels on a distant half truck on the side of the road. And one of the cooks, a black guy, tossed it to me and said, try that. Literally, I was pissing myself before that, and I was shaking like a leaf because bullets land real close to you and hit rocks, and then the rocks would explode, and they would sting your face.

1:38:49SpeakerHit you and it didn't add to the experience. I mean, it just jacked up the adrenaline thing way up. And smoking that joint made everything slow down and made me realize that I was oversensitized. Those little stinging rocks wasn't that big a deal as long as I wasn't being hit by a bullet. And it was a wake-up day for me, you know. I was a Just over 17 years old, there I was getting shot at.

1:39:21SpeakerWasn't even sure why, but I was there.

1:39:23Etienne FontanA literal baptism by fire.

1:39:25SpeakerYeah. Literally and figuratively.

1:39:29BubblemanWell, I'll tell you, I smoked my first joint at 14 behind like a garbage dumpster behind a store. And it was quite different. There was no, you know, aside from the fact that obviously because we were beside a garbage dumpster, a BFI can behind a store, we were also still in that mentality of like, if you smoke cannabis, you're like some sort of deviant criminal, much like what Sam was talking about in 1965.

1:39:56BubblemanThank you for watching.

1:40:10SpeakerYou can imagine how strong the pot was to override the adrenaline that was pumping through my hiney at that moment. And believe you me, I could feel the adrenal glands squeezing themselves dry while I was sitting there. I was so excited that I was vibrating off the ground. Because you're thinking to yourself, I'm going to die here. That's probably what's going to happen.

1:40:35Etienne FontanYeah, I have to agree. Your first firefight is always an adrenaline fest. It happened to me, and we had to actually fix bayonets, and my hands were shaking so much. I couldn't fix my bayonet properly. It was just clacking so much just because of just sheer adrenaline. So I had smoked hash early in the day, but I hadn't smoked it at that time because I was able to get hash in Saudi Arabia.

1:41:01Etienne FontanBut yeah, I... That pure adrenaline would just override everything, I would think.

1:41:07BubblemanI wonder who's actively saying to themselves around the table, hey, you know what would be a good idea? We should bring some hash to Saudi Arabia. We could just get a bunch and just smuggle, like who, that seems real like out there.

1:41:24Etienne FontanIt's part of the culture, man.

1:41:27SpeakerIt's part of the culture. If they're going to do it, the best thing to do is to get a Nigerian mule. They'll never suspect that. It was probably one of the Saudi princes, man. The Saudi princes have been nailed a few times with huge amounts of money or drugs. Yeah, but they don't have a problem. They don't get in trouble, do they? Well, they just chopped one of their heads off recently.

1:41:50SpeakerRemember what they did to the princess, the big wacko?

1:41:54Etienne FontanYou know, hashish, you know, it's allowed in their culture, you know, as well as tobacco. So they have large shishas that are, every Saudi tent that I saw had a shisha that could sit seven men usually. Yeah, that's perfect.

1:42:11SpeakerYou have to understand one thing about the Saudis. They selectively enforce law like we do here in this country. A whole bunch of them might be smoking hashish and one Western guy would be smoking it and the Saudi place would be on him like stink on poo-poo.

1:42:26Etienne FontanAnd then you... Oh, dude, it took a lot of coercing, and the only way we were able to do it is because the Saudis wanted American currency. And so by having American $100 bills, they wanted American $100 bills. So I worked two days of KP duty, and the first day I tried, and every time they put their hands over their ears saying, nope, can't do anything, can't do anything.

1:42:49Etienne FontanSo... I traded some bills with them and then I got KP to the next year and I showed up with a bigger stack of hundreds and was like, if you want, I got to have hashish.

1:43:05Etienne FontanYou know, it went out in the end. That was more dangerous than a firefight, you doing that.

1:43:10BubblemanYeah, no shit.

1:43:12SpeakerFirefight would be an easy thing to do.

1:43:14Etienne FontanThey approached me. They approached us. You got to understand, we worked with Saudi contractors for our food, so we worked with them. We just set the food out, and we just spooned it. They basically did everything else, so we just stood around, but they would approach us and say, hey, do you have money, U.S. dollars? And then we would hear, hey, they've got this underground market for American money, and And so I was like, I want hash.

1:43:37SpeakerStill scary.

1:43:38Etienne FontanYeah, but I was going to the front line. Come on, fuck it. I was going to die anyway. I was prepared for my own death.

1:43:45SpeakerYou know what's funny? I got shit for smoking weed all the way through prison, and I had to ask my friend who gave me shit. I said, you know, you smoke it out there where there's no real pressure of being in prison or being in war in this case, and you justify smoking pot. I I've never needed a joint more in my fucking life than sitting in prison surrounded by these idiots.

1:44:07SpeakerSo leave me alone, you know?

1:44:11Etienne FontanYeah, the unfortunate thing is we sat on the front longer than my hashish that I had. So, you know, you only had so much. And there was no going back from the front saying, hey, can I get a refill on this?

1:44:24SpeakerIn Vietnam, you'd get 10-year-old little kids walking up to you during a firefight going, hey, you want to buy, you know, and show you a bag of Thai bud or Thai stick? And you'd think, are you crazy, kid? There's a firefight going on here. They'd duck down a little bit and go, okay, then you hurry by and I go. So that was kind of the mentality there.

1:44:50SpeakerI had a pregnant Vietnamese woman. I was a combat field medic. I had a pregnant Vietnamese woman during Tet Offensive by the horse race track in Saigon walk up, waddled up to me behind a concrete barrier and rolled back on her back and opened her legs and she was breaching. And so I delivered the baby while under fire. She gathered the baby up, wrapped it up in cloth, stuck it on a thing on her back, thanked me, pinched my cheek and crawled away.

1:45:23SpeakerAll that happened in about 10 minutes while under intense fire. And afterwards, yeah, I smoked. Yeah, I'd smoke a joint too. You weren't supposed to because it would give your location away to the enemy if they could smell what you were doing during a firefight. But at that point in time, I was like, I need a fucking joint. You know, that's the same thing they say at Coachella.

1:45:49SpeakerIt gives your location away to the enemy when you smoke a joint. Well, it's true. What can I say?

1:45:59SpeakerGood fun.

1:46:02Etienne FontanThat's why I recommend those little Hello Neighbors or Smoke Buddies. Smoke Buddies have been a thing, man. Those are great. They eat their charcoal filters. They eat the smoke, whereas the Hello Neighbors are a blow-through filter and actually covers up the scent of the smoke.

1:46:18SpeakerI wish we'd had vapor pens in Vietnam. The best we came up with was... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:46:51SpeakerYou could drive down these rubber tree plantations and look off the side of the road and they went off into infinity. There were so many rubber trees there and it was just an amazing place to be except for a couple of firefights that we ended up being in while we were there and we got attacked. By NVA, and it turns out half of the NVA guys that were attacking us the day before were working on the base camp where we were.

1:47:19SpeakerIt was a huge concrete dome and we closed the door and they couldn't get in at us and we called in a gunship which came and went over the place a couple times and everybody outside got killed and we were able to leave. But a strange place, but if it wasn't for the killing going on, A wonderful spot.

1:47:43BubblemanYeah, the killing can really put a damper on things I'd imagine, you know.

1:47:49SpeakerYeah, walking outside and walking through 350 bodies to get in a helicopter and fly away. It's a powerful experience. Being inside the concrete dome when they flew over with the miniguns and it sounded like Somebody dropping marbles on an umbrella over you, and it was a very fearsome and scary sound. We weren't sure that it wasn't going to kill us as well, but it just killed everybody outside.

1:48:21BubblemanYeah, as Christopher Hawker says, all that killing really bums you out. Yeah, no shit. I would be in complete and total shock, probably curled up in a ball under the helicopter, shaking. Glad to have not been there. Feel terrible for those of you that went. And although I hate the idea of what it's all about, I do understand the guise of which they got most of you to go under that freedom and to fight for your country.

1:48:51BubblemanAnd that's righteous and an amazing thing, but still just terrifying to go around to different countries. Be in war. That is some terrifying shit.

1:49:01SpeakerAt the time in America, it was every, most people were drafted.

1:49:06Etienne FontanRight. Yeah, I was an idiot and volunteered for that shit. So, you know.

1:49:10SpeakerYeah, don't feel alone, T, and I was an RA. I signed up. But, you know, I grew up on army bases. My dad was in the army. He fought in World War II. He fought in Korea and a bunch of other places. So I was conditioned. And when he dumped me off on my 17th birthday in front of the recruiting station with a $20 bill, he said, now you're on your journey to be a man.

1:49:32SpeakerDon't come back home. I can't take care of you anymore. I graduated in 67. I think they drafted about a quarter of the graduating class of high school.

1:49:47BubblemanJesus.

1:49:48SpeakerYeah, and for those that know the origins of the Bay of Tonkin, I mean, man, that whole war was a scam. It wasn't... It was all based on lies and a made-up event to create a war. Exactly. Aren't they all?

1:50:03Etienne FontanRight, my war as well. Mine turned out to be George Bush Senior's company slant drilling oil into Kuwait and got caught by Iraq and then Iraq invaded Kuwait and then they were like, oh, we have to go protect this democracy, which turned out to be a monarchy when I got there. So, yeah, it was full of lies and misinformation. It was all about oil. You know, I didn't defend my country, but I'm proud of my service, but I never defended my country.

1:50:29Etienne FontanYou know what I'm saying? Now I defended my country when I was back here fighting...

1:50:34SpeakerThat was a little small clean war. The second war in Iraq is still going on, man.

1:50:41Etienne FontanExactly. You can pretend that was clean. I got to see it from the inside and no war is clean, my friend.

1:50:46SpeakerIt was obviously better than the second one. Think about it like that.

1:50:51Etienne FontanOh, no doubt. I don't envy the resistance that those guys dealt with, but every war is each its own hell. And I don't envy any person or any human ever having to go through it. Yet those baptisms by fire have made us stronger and have also given us the opportunities to live past our everyday fears and take the challenges that we have and have educated us in ways that have shown us compassion to drive us every single day.

1:51:21Etienne FontanI wouldn't know every single one of you here if I hadn't have gone through my war. You know, I have no idea what I would have experienced otherwise. But those things brought me to where I am, and I'm thankful for them. However, as dramatic as they were, they strengthened me for my fight just recently that I won.

1:51:39SpeakerWell, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but it'd be nicer if you didn't have to go through all the stress and hassles in the goddamn first place.

1:51:49Etienne FontanYes, but we have to lead by examples when those times do come, and I think many of us have shown that time and time again, and much respect to you all.

1:51:59SpeakerWell, wars are really about culling the population. So all the rest of it's bullshit. The certain number of controllers and people who have money want to keep the population at certain levels. And so they hold a war. They cull a lot of the young people out. And you can anecdotal evidence is look and see how they treat veterans after the wars. I mean, These are the people who went there and put their asses on the line or volunteered to even go like myself.

1:52:30SpeakerYou come back and you have a problem about it or you can't sleep or you're nervous around people afterwards and you go to them about it and they're like PTSD? But we don't even have that listed as an illness. So what do you want? You want some Valiums? That was when I came back in 68. The guy offered to put me on Valiums.

1:52:58Etienne FontanOh, they're still doing it.

1:53:01SpeakerAnd I said no then, and I walked away from it. And every time I've ever gone to the VA, which I have to go fairly often, at least once a month, that Nurse Ratched Comes up to you with a clipboard and two big bulging pockets of pills that they try to give to veterans. I forget what their name is. There's a bunch of different generic ones. Basically, they're happy pills.

1:53:28SpeakerAnd they come up to you and they go, hi, hey, you know, a lot of the vets from your era are taking this medication and they're really happy with it. And we wondered if you'd like to try it. And I always tell them, no thanks. I'm not into happy pills because later you might stop making them. And then some people would be crazy enough to come down here with a machine gun and go, where are my fucking happy pills?

1:53:53BubblemanYou need to, next time she says that, turn around and go, hi. You know, we're finding a lot of women in your category are really loving getting high on weed. Pull out a little nugget, maybe give her a bud or a joint.

1:54:08SpeakerYeah, and then they physically remove you from the VA. Yeah, you have to be kind in your answers back to them. You have to be really clever. And you can insinuate, but you've got to really be careful how you insinuate. I bet. Because if you say something that can be held against you, like Etan said, you know, you could get marked forever there.

1:54:34Etienne FontanRight, you don't want your permanent record forever. And like, you know, when I discussed it, and I've made that mistake, because I thought I was being forthright, trying to get my doctor to annotate it. And all it did was just isolate me further and get me removed from the VA. Fortunately, we're seeing that change happening in the VA system that, however, we still see the Republicans in our Congress still pulling those provisions out that finally come to protect us or allow doctors to actually write recommendations.

1:55:07Etienne FontanSo that's one reason why I also supported Prop 64 is because my brothers and sisters in arms can get their cannabis without having to deal with the VA any further as well.

1:55:18SpeakerThe last seven appropriation bills at the VA, which included making it okay for VA doctors to discuss marijuana with their patients, have been squashed by a certain group of GOP senators, seven of them, and they've squashed it every single time. And these are the very same guys who vote, hawk vote for war all the time, and the very same guys who turn down all appropriation requests For veterans and for the VA, it's what makes it so tough for the VA to help vets and not have these long wait periods and times because these guys who are holding the purse strings are all in the pocket of Big Farm and other huge companies.

1:56:07SpeakerWhat they don't want to do is they don't want to give the vets something that they can't take away. And usually when they give us something, it's very difficult for them to take it away again. So these same seven guys, man, it's a cabal of fools on a fool's mission. And I want to see them gone because the vets really, truly and honestly, who survived it and came back, man, we owe them a pat on the back.

1:56:35SpeakerWe owe them We can't, we can't even...

1:57:00SpeakerGet anything as vets after we come back and survive it. Even if you're partially disabled, let's face it. There's all kinds of wounds on a human being. But the wounds that come in through the eye and the heart where you see things done, like a lot of people die, so that you could live. It really digs a deep hole in your soul.

1:57:23SpeakerSo who are these senators? I'll get a list for you and post it.

1:57:30Etienne FontanI know for sure one or two of them lost the other day, so that's a positive. All right.

1:57:34SpeakerWell, that's a good step in the right direction, right?

1:57:36Etienne FontanRight. So what's happening with Pencil Tucky there?

1:57:39SpeakerYou mean the medical cannabis law here? Yes. Or just the political scene in general?

1:57:52Etienne FontanWhat's happening with your medical situation there? It's kind of been in suspended animation there.

1:57:57SpeakerWell, no. The temporary regs are out, and I think that the application will be out, or at least the reg that describes the application in detail on what's going to be required will be out sometime early next year, and 60 days after that, they'll be due. So they're talking about trying to get this implemented by... So stay tuned, I guess. Not too much to report on other than a lot of people are interested in getting licenses.

1:58:28BubblemanThose Pennsylvania regs are like just insane. It's like the document's hundreds of pages as long, is it not?

1:58:34SpeakerWell, I've only seen the thing that the Department of Health has released now. It's only like 30 or 40 pages. It's not that bad. But, I mean, there's just not a lot of, Uh, specificity or detail. I mean, you could just assume it's going to require the same type of information in, uh, the other states, you know, you're going to need to show a, uh, a business plan, which includes your cultivation plan, your processing plan.

1:59:02SpeakerEverything has to be processed in Pennsylvania. There's no flour. So it's all either going to be made into oil or concentrate of some sort. You have to discuss your security plan and how you're going to hire and your human resources practices, everything that you need to make a sustainable functioning business. And I think a big key element is also reaching out to the community and making sure that the community Well access is a good thing.

1:59:52SpeakerYeah, I guess the thing that really sucks is that that's one of the things that's gone on in New York is that, you know, New York is an incredibly large state. They only limited it to five licenses, but I think they're going to throw out five more licenses. But the difficulty is to really get the doctors to really be able to prescribe this as medicine. And part of it is, you know, winning them over.

2:00:16SpeakerThey have to take a course. And some patients have, they have horror stories of having to drive four, five, six hours just to see their doctor. Don't know if the doctor's going to be okay with prescribing them cannabis for their condition.

2:00:31Etienne FontanOut of curiosity, does anybody know when either Maine, Massachusetts, or Nevada's legalization kicks in, or when it's supposed to? Whereas I know California's parts of it immediately went into effect on the midnight of the election night.

2:00:49SpeakerMy boys in Maine just said it's just happening. I mean, it's always been around. It's like one of the things like in Northern California. Out of cultivation there for years, and it's kind of like endemic in the community itself. Now you can just kind of come out in the open with it. So normally where you've had to go down a dark alley, say to go smoke a joint, now you can just smoke a joint there and not feel that you're going to get all the way.

2:01:16SpeakerSo that's cool.

2:01:17Etienne FontanYeah, Maine has always been active. I remember the Maine vocals back in the early 90s, which were the activists up there and When I went to Portland and received a lot of love and yeah, I'm very, very happy to see that with me.

2:01:33SpeakerAnd Massachusetts is big. As you know, Massachusetts is a center of all kinds of intellect and hospitals. Harvard, MIT, Brandeis University are all in Massachusetts. Massachusetts is a very, that's a real big, big step in the right direction. And to throw out to our boy out in Western Mass, And the Chemdog, right? Isn't that where that legendary strain came from? So, I mean, you know, Massachusetts is a big, big state to go legal.

2:02:02SpeakerThat's great. Big victory.

2:02:05BubblemanRight. And they're mentioning that happens December 15th. I guess those rigs go into effect in mass, yeah?

2:02:12SpeakerYeah, a lot of them are just sort of coming out, Mark. But the real cool thing with Pennsylvania is they actually are taking a lot of information in. So for several months, there's been a questionnaire on site where they want to know what should this regulation look like. I mean, what didn't work in other states? What worked in states? So they're actually getting a whole lot of input.

2:02:33SpeakerSo our eyes will be on the final version of the regs to see what they're like. But we're hearing that they have looked at things like THC limits, which we know is just such a stupid idea, especially if you're into oil. It just doesn't make sense. By definition, you're adulterating it if you have a limit on the THC. So it just doesn't make sense. Canada is the same way.

2:02:59SpeakerThey have that. You should be able to fight that by saying, hey, if I have to adulterate it, the various things that are available to adulterate it with are not approved for human vaporization into their lungs. Yeah, but the reason they do it is so that you can have an oral route of administration. They believe that if you're inhaling it, you're getting high. So in order to ruin everybody's fun, they're going to make you put it in olive oil.

2:03:29SpeakerBut they want to approve vape pens. They want to approve vaporizers, personal vaporizers. And to show you how ridiculous the reg was for a while, they actually had nebulizers in there, which you know you can use for like administration of, Thank you for joining us.

2:03:54SpeakerMark, nebulizers work, but you have to use vaporization by ultrasonics.

2:04:19SpeakerThank you for watching.

2:04:38SpeakerThis is going to have to have some pretty special properties to be able to withstand the vigors of cannabinoids. Yeah, because it's just going to get dirty and sticky. You're going to have residue everywhere. It's just going to be a fucking mess. God, I just think about it. No, it's like the nail, you know, or anything that we use. If they're not clean, they don't work properly.

2:04:54SpeakerYou don't get nice, tasty hits off dirty equipment. So it's the same with medicine. It doesn't work the same. It doesn't work right if it's not clean. Cleanliness is next to stoneliness.

2:05:09BubblemanYes, indeed. That was one of the first things you said to me when I met you many, many years ago. Although what you actually said was cleanliness is next to godliness.

2:05:22SpeakerThat's nearly the same except for just some different letters, huh? Just change it to dog. Change God to dog and we're good. To dogliness. Dogliness. There we go. We got it.

2:05:33BubblemanSam's more of a feline guy.

2:05:36SpeakerHe likes his pussies?

2:05:41BubblemanHe likes the kitty cats. He's, you know, he's got the kitty cat.

2:05:46SpeakerRemember, there's ladies in the room.

2:05:48BubblemanWell, I was actually talking about kitty cats 100% without any puns whatsoever.

2:05:55SpeakerAbsolutely. I will be honest. Not intended. I haven't had a dog for 30 years. I've had a few dogs I really like, but you're right. In an apartment, a cat works better. Yeah, for sure. Cats bark less, that's for sure.

2:06:17BubblemanI'll tell you, I heard mine at about 3 in the morning trying to get into our room and meowing for what seemed to be like forever. I was just like, you're not going to stop? You just won't stop and go away eventually?

2:06:29SpeakerMy cat over here is completely mute. She doesn't know how to meow. Oh my gosh.

2:06:36BubblemanShe's silent forever. Look at that. Just like that. We start talking about cats and now there's a cat on Hash Church.

2:06:44SpeakerI've been trying to get on camera for a while here.

2:06:46BubblemanNice. Well, just like that, you know, you had to wait for the feline conversation to erupt, which it did.

2:06:52SpeakerHey, Judy, does your cat respond to cat mint? No, she doesn't. No, not at all. Not at all. A non-responder to cat mint. So you've tried like the toys or you tried the fresh herb with her? Yeah, she doesn't care. She doesn't care at all. Oh, wow. That's interesting. How old is she? Five and a half. Oh, that's old enough. Weird. She's a weird cat. All cats are weird.

2:07:22SpeakerSo you know that there's a monoterpenoid that's responsible for that reaction in cats. It's closely related to mint, right? Yeah, it smells like mint. I don't know what the terpene is. It's not one that's in mint, but the catnip is like mint. It's called nipetalactone. It's a bicyclic monoterpenoid ester, I guess you'd call it. Interesting. Have they worked out the biosynthesis of it? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yep, yep, nipetalactone.

2:07:55SpeakerCheck it out. Yeah, you can find it. Look at the work of John Pickett from Rothamsted. There's been a lot of work, really elegant work on the bios, but it's an iridoid monoterpenoid, and the iridoids are... In a number of different plants, they're glycosylated, and when they're glycosylated, they serve as, I think, a plant hormone regulator or something like that. But they also have very, very interesting properties, as Chimera was saying before, semiochemical properties.

2:08:28SpeakerAnd so very similar to nepatolactones are dihydronepatolactones, which is the hydrogenated version of nepatolactone. And that's actually found in the anal secretion of various beetles. So beetles don't talk, but they communicate through a chemical ecology system of basically emitting chemicals and pheromones that tell the beetles behind it where they should go or what they should do. So again, maybe one of the evolutionary pressures On cannabis that evolved certain biosynthetic pathways to make terpenoids was based on the fact that, again, there is interactions and there is a chemical ecology way of communicating between bugs that could have created an evolutionary pressure that existed between the plant kingdom.

2:09:25SpeakerAnd I thought the Beatles just made albums.

2:09:31SpeakerA lot of examples of that are about pollinator attraction, right? Right, right. Cannabis. Yeah, so it turns out the insect, nepetalactone, catmin itself, is a pretty good insect repellent. It's a lacewing attractant, so it attracts lacewings, but it repels most So why would it just attract this one and repel a bunch of others? I don't know. Like osamine is like that too. Osamine has been found to repel white flies and tomato and we all know that cannabis can be susceptible to white flies too.

2:10:04SpeakerYeah. So there's about maybe 1% or 2% osamine in the essential oil of catmint. It's one of the minor terps. There's Carvone, we see Carvone, we see Carvacol, which is again a derivative of Carvone. Carvone is the caraway. Those are all precursors to menthol. Right, exactly, exactly. So it's kind of like a mint, but it's kind of not like a mint. So it doesn't have the camphor, it doesn't have the eugenol, it doesn't have...

2:10:33SpeakerThe typical, you know, minty, mentha-type compounds, so you don't see menthone, you don't see menthol, but you see beta-caryophyllene is in there, but nipetalactone is primarily the... Some essential oils have up to 60 or 70 percent... That's interesting, too, if it's an iridoid, because iridoids are made by a completely different biochemical mechanism than traditional monotropines, so that... Yes, yeah, so it's, well, but Mother Nature is very creative in how she, I was going to say this before, we were talking about conservation of terpene synthases.

2:11:11SpeakerThese things often moonlight and do several other different things, you know. Even genes, genes will moonlight too because certain genes which code for certain enzymes, I mean, There's all different kinds of functions that when you knock those genes out, you can see a variety of different effects that you didn't necessarily correlate to that particular knockout. But I know that a lot of enzymes carry out a lot of ubiquitous chemistry that you never really know until you really start looking at how you would take those enzymes out.

2:11:47SpeakerSo yeah, a lot of moonlighting going on. Interconnected systems and everything. You bet, you bet. I can tell you that the catnip oil definitely has powerful mint overtones to it when you smell it. I got some right in my hand here right now. Yeah, after we realized that our cat doesn't really respond to it, we just started using it in cooking actually. Catnip? Yeah. What do you cook with it?

2:12:15SpeakerI use it sort of like oregano or thyme. Huh. That's interesting because it does have historical uses for treating GI disorders. Really? Catnip tea. Some people find it very distasteful, though. It's got a very loud, herbaceous kind of front note to it, doesn't it? I mean, it doesn't taste like the regular spearmint, peppermint varieties, but certainly the catnip varieties, at least that I'm familiar with, I don't find very...

2:12:49SpeakerYeah, no, it's not great. No, it's not the most pleasant tasting material. And neither is oregano if you eat too much of it. You know, oregano oil can be very overpowering, but in small amounts, it's nice. Right. What are the terpenes in oregano? I don't know. Good question. Okay. I know you can use oregano medicinally in many different ways. It's a very potent detoxifier. The catnip, Stuff smells at first like it's got a lot of mint in it and then there's a lot of secondary.

2:13:24SpeakerWe got to do some kitty dabs, John, some kitty dabs. Get some cats on the nail and we'll dab out the cats.

2:13:35BubblemanThere's already an Instagram account called Cats Who Dab. I'm not making this shit up.

2:13:41SpeakerI just want to bring up the active compound in oregano, so it's called Carvacol. Carpacol, yeah. Yeah, and it's a very potent antimicrobial, so it has, it's great. That's why a lot of people take, like they take oil of oregano, drops of it, and swallow it when you get a sore throat coming on. It's a very potent antimicrobial. I think it's actually in Buckley's. I think Carvacrol definitely is part of that cough medication.

2:14:07BubblemanIs that what pregnant women are supposed to avoid in oregano oil extracts? Because I know they're so potent that when you're pregnant, you should avoid that particular extract.

2:14:18SpeakerMost essential oils, you need to be very careful when you're pregnant. There's, like, there's, I'm not super familiar with all the essential oils and how, like, in regards to pregnancy, but anytime, like, all the stuff, the knowledge I have, whenever someone who's pregnant or breastfeeding Your recommendations for essential oils and plant compounds, you have to be very careful because a lot of these compounds are too strong and I think like even certain essential oils that can be used for babies even during cold and flu season, so like oregano, sorry not oregano, Eucalyptus and like peppermint, even those types of aromas you have to be careful with because these are very, very concentrated compounds and they need to be properly diluted.

2:15:02SpeakerBut I haven't heard of oregano with pregnancy, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were concerns.

2:15:07BubblemanIt says it stimulates the uterus and can cause a miscarriage. I just remember for all three of our children, the midwives every single time said stay away from oregano oil extracts.

2:15:17SpeakerThat's interesting. I know that. There's Carvacol in catmine oil too. That's really interesting that you mentioned that. I think there's maybe like 1% or 2% in catmine oil of the Carvacol, so that's really interesting. That's a highly modified terpene too. It's not a simple terpene. No. Yeah, water has been added, right? Yeah, and it's been cyclized. It's a phenol. Right.

2:15:44BubblemanWhich and is it not phenols and terpenes that produce all of these terpenes that we are loving? Do you want to do you have any like information on that Judy of like the sort of biosynthesis of terpenes in these plants and do they all happen in glandular trichomes or some of these terpenes being created elsewhere in plants like in the fibers or the stalks of certain plants?

2:16:08SpeakerMost of the interesting ones, like the ones that sort of taste and smell good are being produced in the trichomes just like the cannabinoids are. There's some other ones, larger sort of terpenes that are in roots, but I don't know very much about that and those wouldn't taste like very much, you know.

2:16:24BubblemanFor sure.

2:16:25SpeakerBut cannabis roots are supposed to have some interesting medical properties too. I don't know very much about that, but I've heard. I'm actually putting together a paper right now with Ethan Russo. We're writing a paper on cannabis roots, and you were right. There's lots of active, interesting compounds. I don't necessarily want to talk about it just yet, but in another episode, I'll go into more details. But what's interesting about the roots is there is no cannabinoids, so it is some of these other terpenoid compounds.

2:16:51SpeakerSo there's... Cannabisatavine is one of the compounds, and we don't know anything about this, so pharmacological studies on it. And, crap, what's the other one? Oh, sorry, fritoline is one of the major compounds found in the root. Do you know very much about fritoline? So it's found in other plants. It has anti-inflammatory effects, but that's one of the compounds found in the cannabis root that has some active activity for inflammation anyway, but no cannabinoids in the roots.

2:17:20SpeakerI've also heard about cannaflavins in the leaves, which are sort of related to cannabinoids but produced differently and probably not psychoactive.

2:17:29BubblemanInteresting.

2:17:30SpeakerI remember people would dig up a whole plant, dig up the entire root ball while the plant was still alive and plunge it in boiling water before they turned it upside down. Trying to hurry along something that was in the root system to push out of the top of the plant. It was a wives tale scenario that they were doing it. I was always just interested to see that people are always trying different ways to try to Make the plant a little more potent or get a little more out of it.

2:18:03SpeakerOr maybe they were thinking about driving the resin up the stalk by putting the roots in boiling water. I'm not sure what all the thinking was behind it. Like during the processing, that was a part of the step is they would do a... Like before they took the roots off or were they collecting the water from the root extract? Because there's a history of use of using the cannabis roots in water extractions and like a lot of data not...

2:18:29SpeakerI don't know about scientific data necessarily but like anecdotal through all the medicine papers and such. What? Oh and like Galen and we're sorry they're taking the cannabis root water extracts and finding it has amazing anti-inflammatory effects and especially for gout. Gout is like it's so repeated and talked about that that's become really interesting to me about how cannabis roots could potentially be a treatment for gout and it seems to be in a water Thank you so much for joining us.

2:19:30SpeakerThings and I can imagine if they combined all aspects of the plant it would even be more powerful but definitely more research needs to be done and going on. Yeah there's more stuff in the plant that we don't know or haven't totally come to understanding with yet. The way the plant grows and produces the seeds and all the birds are repelled from trying to Thank you for watching.

2:20:25SpeakerThe natural way that the plants have established in propagating themselves. And until that seed is ready, the terpenes that are emitted off of the plant keep bugs and birds and would-be eaters of the seed away. And so these are the very terpenes that we enjoy so much. But they're also bug and bird repellent. And it's just interesting how the plant manages to produce these to keep its seed safe.

2:20:59SpeakerAnd cat attractant, a bug repellent, but a cat attractant. So what the fuck evolutionary pressure is that that's going to put a cat or a cat excitant, kind of like the way cannabinoids are to humans, these compounds are to cats. That's just, it's Mother Nature's amazing, right? I mean, in her time course of evolution, she's evolved these plants that have multiple functionality that's just very, you know, amazing to think about how it's all related.

2:21:35SpeakerWell, the deal is, is it's all related. You just gave the explanation and the answer to that philosophical question. It is all related and it's so interrelated and it's such a miracle to realize that every single thing in nature has its own way of surviving and dealing with it. The way this whole place is propagated all the time. I think we all do it together because underneath it all, we're all of one mind.

2:22:07SpeakerWe're here to experience and understand life and love. I'll puff to that.

2:22:16BubblemanWe do. I will absolutely puff to that, Sir Indra.

2:22:25SpeakerJudy, can you tell us more about how you analyze the terpenes, some of the basic techniques? I don't know, tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, sure. So we use gas chromatography, which is sort of the art of separating out compounds from each other. And terpenes... Thank you for joining us.

2:23:03SpeakerBy looking at how the molecule sort of breaks apart into its constituent pieces and also how long it takes it to get from point A to point B under certain chemical conditions, you can do a pretty good job of identifying what the compound is or if it's a more rare one, you can make a good guess. You get the molecular weight of your compound. Molecular weight and its hydrophobicity and its volatility and the molecular weight of the parent compound as well as the way it fragments into little bits.

2:23:36SpeakerJudy, do you end up with a little bottle of the terpenes or do you just have the evidence that the terpenes were there from analysis? Yeah, just the evidence. Unfortunately, we don't have a way to collect them at the end of it afterwards because it's sort of… They're destroyed. Yeah, they're destroyed in the process. Do you use NMR at all? No, I mean, some people in my lab do, but I personally have never used NMR.

2:24:02SpeakerSo why MS as opposed to GCFID?

2:24:09SpeakerThe easy answer is that MS is what I currently have access to. Our mass spectrometry lab is equipped with several mass spectra, but I also think it's better in a lot of ways. It's more sensitive, much more sensitive, and you get the molecular weight. You get the molecular weight and the fragmentation pattern, so if retention time isn't enough, or sort of the...

2:24:32SpeakerThe first step is their retention time, the retention time of these compounds, which tells you certain physical properties, like how volatile they are and how hydrophobic they are. But some of them are very similar that way, or you can have two compounds that come out at the exact same time, and with an FID, you won't necessarily know that. Or you could be doing chemistry in your injection port at 200 degrees where you're making your injection, correct?

2:24:54SpeakerYeah, you can get rearrangements at high temperature or rearrangements along the column or you can have things that sort of stick in the injection port. Like cannabinoids will definitely stick in your injection port. So mass spectrum just gives you more information than an FID will. But FIDs are better for quantitation unless you have really high quality analytical standards. I think FID is overrated. I have mass spec on the end of my GC.

2:25:17SpeakerYeah. There doesn't seem to be any advantage of FID over GC. Yeah, you could have multiple channels on the end of your GC. You could have just a channel that you switch from FID right over to your mass spectrometer. Yeah. Why are all the labs using FID, Ben? It's cheaper. Cheaper. And it is good for quantitation too. Yeah, you can't use mass spectrometer for quantitation unless you have really good standards.

2:25:41SpeakerAnd for some of the more rare terpenes, it's hard to get standards. They're very expensive or both. Well, in some of the rare terpenes, you can't even identify. I mean, if you look at Justin Fischetic's work, there's a whole bunch of terpenes that they had the MS data for, but they couldn't identify. Especially the sesquiterpenes. Sesquiterpenes are very difficult to identify. Right. Yeah, that's why you need NMR, because if you supplement that data in the GC mass spec with the NMR data, you'll be able to figure it out.

2:26:07SpeakerDo you have a way to purify sesquiterpenes in high enough purity and high enough volume from cannabis to get NMR?

2:26:16SpeakerWell, Mark's whole thought is that you can do the complex mixture, right? Yeah, I mean, you could use NMR down to, what, maybe about, I want to say like 0.5 maybe mole percent. I mean, you can look at all kinds of different small little peaks in the baseline, and then you buy that authentic terpene, and you spike the sample, and you look to see if those are your peaks that go up.

2:26:40SpeakerAnd then you could say, aha, that's beta-caryophyllene, or that's terpene. You're right, it's not... We're still around the need for a standard, right? If you don't have a standard. Yeah, but here's another good thing you can do. What you can do is you can do a bicarbonate wash. Since most of the cannabinoids are acids, right, they'll extract out in a bicarbonate wash. So now what you're looking at after you do a base extraction is everything that doesn't extract over is going to be basically rich with your non-polar Thank you for joining us today.

2:27:30SpeakerIt looks just like THCA. It's a spec, you know. So if I eliminate the THCA, so if I undress the Mona Lisa, I can see everything else in the painting that's not THCA. And so, yeah, the trained eye could do this, but there's also multi-nuclear techniques and ways that you can correlate between carbon and proton NMR that really gives a unique advantage of Okay, cool.

2:28:17SpeakerFor an R&D tool, and again, I'll just go back to what we were saying earlier, I think mass spec in general, Ryan, is better for R&D and maybe FID is better for just routine work. FID, yeah, there's not a whole lot that can break down, but on a mass spectrometer, things do break down. But you get a lot more information about the molecular weight of what you're looking at and different rearrangements and fragmentations.

2:28:44SpeakerAnd especially for something as complex as cannabis, being able to tell if you have two peaks that are co-eluting is really valuable. Right, especially when you look at osamine and these other rearranged products. I mean, there's only very subtle differences between the compounds themselves, like the position of the double bonds. I was saying a lot of these things are constitutional or what are called positional isomers. So it's the same atoms, it's the same molecular framework, but where the double bonds are are different, and so it creates a...

2:29:14SpeakerBroadness in being able to analyze for those because those things, when you stare at them cross-eyed, can interconvert between one another. Especially a lot of these sesquiterpene oxides will break down really, really easily. Yes. Yep. Yep. Yeah, but aren't those temperatures, they're subject to those temperatures in the injection chamber of the GC anyway, right? You can do cold injection.

2:29:47SpeakerWhich gets you around that, although it's less quantitative. Yeah, the kind of testing that's going on in the industry right now is basically to cycle through as many samples as they possibly can get through. I don't know what the throughput versus when they actually break down their injection ports, clean them out, because like you said, cannabinoids in a lot of these compounds, when they oxidatively degrade, create sticky, resinous materials that stick around.

2:30:16SpeakerThey don't just go away, you know? Yeah, we're here to call them.

2:30:19BubblemanThey do, they do actually, if you leave them on Sam's coffee table, it's, they just, they're gone. I don't even know where they go. I go, I go to the bathroom, I go back, they're gone. They're like, those cannabinoids, those sticky resins, they just disappear over there.

2:30:36SpeakerWell, actually, that's not completely true. The THC is gone, but the other cannabinoids, yeah, I'm not so interested in them.

2:30:48BubblemanThis is true. This is true. Well, good conversation today. I like it. It's always interesting to get into things a little deeper. Nice to listen to Judy and Natasha and Mark get into the science, Chimera. Skunk Man Sam, we love the plant. We're deep into this plant. Can you tell? It's kind of funny because the conversation can go from this sort of academic standpoint of studying the science and how it's going to benefit mankind from like, remember when we were all getting arrested and put in jail and like they were ruining our lives?

2:31:22BubblemanIt was like, or even, you know, some of us even go back further than that. Like Todd, like remember when I was a child and I had cancer? Holy shit, dude. Unbelievable, really, this whole journey that we've all had. Remember when I was in Vietnam. Or remember when I was in Vietnam and I was smoking a gel. Like it's just an unbelievable companion plant.

2:31:42SpeakerAnd it's so amazing to hear all this stuff, right? Like when we're talking about injection port temperatures and stuff to get the perspective on why it matters. Thank you for joining us.

2:32:10SpeakerHey, the labs and the be pissed about the irreproducibility of these labs. But someday these labs will all be up to standard and up to par. And I'm advising all of my clients without exception to really make the investment or think about making the investment in in-house analytics. And along with that, hire a chemist, hire a bachelor of science chemist, Who knows how to fix the instrument and knows how to run the instrument and can basically produce.

2:32:42SpeakerA guy named Mark. Trying to get them to hire Mark because this is starting to sound like one of the... Mark's moved well past the Bachelor of Science.

2:32:51BubblemanYeah, no, I'm a PhD.

2:32:53SpeakerNo, I'm just saying that they should hire somebody young, right.

2:32:56BubblemanHe's promoting the youth, the young, the new, the next batch.

2:33:00SpeakerRight, our ACS subdivision that we have now in chemistry, I mean, in cannabis chemistry. I mean, this is to promote everything that we need to do to make these testing labs better and to make them... You know, go ahead, Mark.

2:33:16BubblemanHere's one for you, Mark. Talking about chemistry, we had a question by Conscious Rosen, kind of more of a request than a question, but it's in regards to the topic of driving under the influence and of cannabis. And so I know there's going to be a whole thing where they already have figured out ways of testing for cannabis. That's a huge industry, those analytical labs that test piss for different things, for jobs and whatnot.

2:33:42SpeakerBut what do you guys think? The saliva test.

2:33:45BubblemanYeah, I mean, I'm sure there's going to be a bunch of new ones made.

2:33:47SpeakerBut the issue with that, Marcus, to be quite honest, is that until... The correlation between driver impairment and cannabis use is correlated in a statistically valid way on a wide swath of populations with people who have liver disease, people who are predisposed to anxiety. Yeah, exactly what I was thinking.

2:34:12BubblemanThat's never going to happen.

2:34:13SpeakerUntil that happens, until that happens, until that happens, all this is just bullshit and just hype. Yeah, but that's not... That's not about... Like for example in Washington State, I don't know exactly what the number is, but there's a set limit in... Yeah, and it's just based on the limit of detectability. Basically saying if you have cannabis in your system, you're history. It's based on the, yeah, that nine nanogram per meter.

2:34:39SpeakerRight, but that's what I'm saying. It changes from area to area. Like I was saying last week in Italy and Czech Republic and Germany, they use these little dipsticks. They look like little rolling papers you stick in your mouth and there's a color change of theirs. Thank you for joining us.

2:35:12SpeakerYou know, cannabis use before driving. They don't care about intoxication. And the worst, of course, piss test, because all it's about to test before is an inactive metabolite, which is in your urine. So it shows no impairment at all. Chimera, I'm glad you finished where the dipstick went. Because when you first started telling that story, I was wondering... What you started thinking about a patent. I know what you started thinking about.

2:35:44BubblemanHe wrote that patent already. No, I just, you know, I think that it's interesting because I've had this discussion with people in the sense that, you know, alcohol, there's somewhat of a disassociative nature with alcohol when you get drunk that you don't want to admit that you're drunk or you don't want to acknowledge that you're drunk or you definitely don't want to acknowledge that you can't, you know, operate a dangerous vehicle at high speeds.

2:36:08BubblemanThere's something about that with alcohol. We know that's a real thing and that's part of the problem why So many people end up dying in fatal alcohol-induced car accidents. Alcohol is constantly present at these things. And I think it's part of the reason is because alcohol convinces someone that they can do something that they can't. And I argue, at least for myself, because I haven't done the test nationwide or a huge swath, but that cannabis generally is like there are those who can use it in high doses and just not be affected by, say, driving a vehicle.

2:36:42BubblemanAnd then there are those that may feel that they don't want to drive a vehicle. I got too dabbed out or whatever. And the joy of the plant is that it won't convince them that they can or should Drive if they feel uncomfortable. They'll just say, I don't want to drive. I feel uncomfortable. And that's a pretty big thing to acknowledge.

2:37:04SpeakerSome people are. Not everybody.

2:37:05BubblemanSome people.

2:37:07SpeakerYou've got to remember these rules are made by society at large. It's not made by stoners that believe in them.

2:37:12BubblemanOf course not. Of course not.

2:37:14SpeakerYour average person that is not a cannabis user and maybe tried it once or twice in their life, they probably tried it at a party and they probably tried it at a party when they were drunk. Right? Because their inhibitions were low enough to actually try the cannabis. And everybody that, you know, uses both cannabis and alcohol knows that there's a huge synergy between the two. And, you know, so much of cannabis and so much alcohol, the overall result is much, much bigger, right?

2:37:41SpeakerLike, you really get impaired when you use the two of them together.

2:37:44BubblemanYeah, I mean, if alcohol is being used in conjunction with it, it's sort of like all options are off the table because obviously alcohol is going to affect one's ability.

2:37:53SpeakerBut if it was the only time that you ever tried cannabis, you might think, wow, I smoked cannabis and I got really fucked up. Well, this is what I'd say.

2:38:02BubblemanIf I dabbed out your average person that could absolutely drive a car without any problem and I gave them a fairly large dab, I would argue that 9 out of 10 of them, if not 10 out of 10 of them would say, there's no way I'm getting behind the wheel of my car right now. Exactly, but I'm saying they won't convince themselves that I'm just fine to drive if they aren't.

2:38:24BubblemanAnd that's generally seems to be, I mean, it's obviously the truth because the bottom line is, is that People aren't dying from smoking cannabis and then driving cars, but they are from drinking alcohol and driving cars. And we know that is an absolute fact.

2:38:41SpeakerBut the big demon about the whole deal, Mark, is whenever people get busted for drunk driving, when they go to court, the very first thing they say is, and I was stoned on marijuana. I mean, this crutch has been used in more cases than you can point a stick at. People will cop to using marijuana to try to get the charge lessened or to get into a diversion program when it's not true.

2:39:08SpeakerMost of the accidents that they found that are fatal that had some marijuana in their bloodstream had massive amounts of alcohol in their bloodstream. So what was the pot doing when the alcohol was already Two times the legal limit. But yet they cite the marijuana as being involved in the accident. So until we clean up the system and start using real honest facts instead of the bullshit that they propagate all the time for the convenience of the court system and so they can prosecute you, they mince these words together in such a way so that there's no way to get away from it.

2:39:50SpeakerIf you were totally drunk and you had one milligram of marijuana in your system, like as not, they're going to make an issue out of it. It's a problem in this country because we've elected officials who've made these rules and are forcing us to live under them. It ain't right, as Red Fox used to say. Common sense tells you that alcohol makes your foot heavier. Cannabis makes your foot lighter.

2:40:23SpeakerI mean, everybody knows it.

2:40:25BubblemanIt's pretty standard. That's what I'm saying. I mean, I know what John's saying as well because it's very accurate for, say, like the Midwest. You know, there definitely are people with this hardcore mentality where they are promoting this manipulation of statistics to direct negative connotation towards cannabis and cannabis use. But the reality of it is, You know, even with my mother who's visiting right now and worked as a 911 operator in Winnipeg, Manitoba for 30 plus years, she's the first to admit that, yeah, alcohol is a giant, huge part of 911.

2:41:01BubblemanLike 80 to 90 percent of all the calls that come in are alcohol related and there's Anyone that works at 911, whether they are pro or against cannabis, would know that reality. You know, that that's just the reality that it is, that certain things cause problems and that those things that do cause problems are certainly, although they may be manipulated later on in the courts and by the law enforcement, the people who are taking those calls 100% and unequivocally know what's what.

2:41:37SpeakerYeah, we waste the most money on alcohol, the second most money on people who are on alcohol beating up their wives and children.

2:41:45BubblemanThat's what I'm telling you.

2:41:46SpeakerIt's definitely not a good vibe. And somehow we don't enact something to be done about it. There's no way you should be beating up your wife and your kids. If you can't handle alcohol, maybe we need background checks. You can't buy a bottle of tequila, fool. Every time you drink it, you beat up your wife and kids.

2:42:07BubblemanIt's definitely like a beyond important factor that should just never occur. It's right up there with murder and rape. It's like children and women, well, men for that reason. Thank you for watching.

2:42:34SpeakerYou know, I've known Dennis Prone for 22 years and I got a lot of love and respect for him. And he was a really loud voice against legalization. And ironically, he has publicly stated that he uses cannabis to treat alcoholism. And, you know, fortunately, Dennis lives in Northern California, San Francisco, where it's just literally cannabis everywhere. But the people in the Midwest that you're talking about who don't have access would really do well to have access with all this corporate talk we all fear.

2:43:04SpeakerBecause you know what? They have corporate alcohol rammed down their throats, available everywhere they stumble. And we don't have cannabis. And really, I think the world would be a significantly better place, just like Dennis' life was a significantly better place once he had cannabis and not alcohol in his system. You know, so this is where I think it's the chemicals in cannabis and I think that they should be available to everybody, really.

2:43:30SpeakerThe more we talk about it, the more I think about it. I hope someday it's literally in every store.

2:43:38BubblemanI hope one day they put the word essential in front of cannabinoids. Essential. Just like amino acids, essential. Thank you. That's all we need. Everything else, just clear the table.

2:43:51SpeakerDoes anyone on the panel think that there could be a time when we understand the endocannabinoid system so well? Thank you so much for joining us.

2:44:22SpeakerI know that smoking should be mandatory in states like Nebraska, Iowa.

2:44:32SpeakerYeah, I mean, like Natasha said earlier, even beta-caryophyllene is the CB2 receptor agonist, right? So beta-caryophyllene is in tons of, like we said, tons of plants, but it's in, you know, pepper, black pepper in really high amounts. So... If you understand what's in your food and you eat healthy, you can definitely get everything your endocannabinoid system needs.

2:44:57BubblemanYou can eat at Burger King and just consume weed.

2:45:01SpeakerRight. You got to mention a couple times about adding olive oil. When you look at fats and oils, cannabis oil is better than olive oil on any standard of measure. Why wouldn't we want to use hemp seed oil as the carrier for the cannabinoids? Well, you can in a lot of ways use hemp seed oil, but it doesn't last as long as olive oil, and olive oil tolerates heat better than hemp seed oil does.

2:45:30SpeakerHemp seed oil needs to be cold pressed. But when you say it doesn't last as long, it's only because it's richer, it goes rancid faster, and the reality is if we used it fresher, it would be healthier for us. Excuse me. That's one possibility, Todd. The other possibility is to have a press where you make it fresh like a little peanut butter maker, you know, right in your house.

2:45:57SpeakerIn your own home. And keep it in the fridge or freezer and it stays fresh. Excuse me. I make it. I'd question how much cannabinoids you can get into the oil. Really. Really. At that temperature, but it would definitely be from experimentation. Wait a minute. I make hemp seed oil. It's pure golden. There's no zero chlorophyll in it. And I have taken that oil and immersed it with THC oil and it mixes instantly and really well.

2:46:32SpeakerYou stir it up and five minutes later, it's totally immersed in it. And maybe it's tougher when you've got the chlorophyll in the oil, but I don't like cold pressing because you're pressing a lot of other things out. And so I separate the hulls off first and then separate the isoprotein from the oil in high purity and no green.

2:46:57BubblemanYou told me years ago, Indra, that cold pressing was a misnomer at best.

2:47:03SpeakerIt is because they're wrapping the press up so they can call it a cold press. But with the pressures they use to squeeze the seeds, the temperatures get right up there. And it gets up in hundreds of degrees. And so they have a very powerful refrigeration unit wrapped around it. And it's a misnomer. They say cold pressed. And they're talking about the press is cold. Doesn't have anything to do with it.

2:47:28SpeakerSee, there's a big difference in the taste. And the longevity of oil that is squeezed out and has green and chlorophyll in it versus golden cannabis oil, which is what we make. That's true, Indra, but how much of this oil have you sold? Well, I haven't really gotten into making it until now. We're just now thinking about doing it because I sent some samples around to different people, and it appears that I could sell all that I could make at this point in time.

2:48:00BubblemanYeah, there's no way that you couldn't. I mean, I've only contacted one company about it, which was Manitoba Harvest, and because they're my old partners, I think they're more… Thank you for watching.

2:48:29BubblemanOn the market. And the crazy thing about it is I know how these companies are making their product. I know that one of the companies uses a crazy water extraction process that the machine is like multi-millions of dollars to clean the protein powder isolate through this water extraction process. And from what I've seen of Indra's, and I had them tested in three different labs, all of the material that he extracted for me.

2:48:53BubblemanAnd it was... It was just completely next level. It was, you know, nobody still to this day has it, what he can make. It's still not available commercially, which is...

2:49:03SpeakerThe other thing that makes the big difference between the method, which sounds like your method may well be tops, is the variety you use, because each variety of cannabis seed, when you make an oil out of it, has a different taste. True. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. By the way, Natasha... If you recall back, somebody said they were going to get a five gallon bucket of those seeds for you and that I would extract it for you.

2:49:30SpeakerThat offer is still there that somebody didn't come up with a bucket of seeds yet, but I'm still 100% willing to do that for you. And then you'll have the purest protein isolate on the planet, the purest, best, You might want to ask Sam about sourcing a seed that has the kind of flavor things that you're interested in having because he's right. I've tasted them all the way from tasting like pecan oil to walnut oil to an olive oil sort of taste of first squeeze olive oil.

2:50:08SpeakerSo you might want to check with him, but I'll still do that for you. And then if you like it, As I said, we can crank it up to 2,500 kilos, which would give you 50%, you know, 1,200 kilos of oil and protein isolate. She needs to try one of the Canadian varieties. Is this going to be done in Canada or in the United States? Kansas, worse.

2:50:34SpeakerOkay, well then, it's not so simple to send seeds to Kansas.

2:50:39BubblemanWell, from Colorado, it probably isn't too hard to put them in some containers and... Yeah, you're right.

2:50:45SpeakerSo try to find a good variety there where the seeds are truly finished and mature because that'll give them a nuttier flavor. You can just be very careful at that border. You can say... That's about five million bucket of seeds in the States already hauled.

2:51:05BubblemanThat's what I did. I bought already hauled seeds. I will tell you that the ones that were sold in the grocery store from Manitoba Harvest that I purchased and sent to Indra, when I had them tested in the lab, when oil goes bad and it produces that sort of turpentine flavor, That's sort of that off paint smell.

2:51:26SpeakerLike a varnish smell.

2:51:28BubblemanYeah, like a varnish smell. So the oil had a fairly high concentration in that and it had nothing to do With the extraction process, the extraction process merely unveiled that the oil itself was well into rancidity and still being sold on the shelves of the grocery store. So the great thing about the ability to defat protein powder isolate if you want to lengthen shelf life is the way he does that extraction and the temperatures that he does it at, the oil and the protein powder isolate have insane shelf lives, like completely isolated.

2:52:05BubblemanI bet you they're 20 times longer than the closest competition, if not way longer. And the shelves?

2:52:13SpeakerI left an open bottle in the window.

2:52:15BubblemanYeah, you said that last week.

2:52:17SpeakerFor two years. And it tested the same exact results two years later at the lab that it did when I set it up on that shelf. And Marcus, when you shelled, you got that shelled cannabis seed that you used for pressing, did you eat any of them? How did they taste to you?

2:52:39BubblemanThe seeds I did not eat because I purchased them online at a grocery store in Kansas and then had them shipped to Indra.

2:52:50BubblemanNo, I just got to taste the oil and the protein powder isolate that he produced.

2:52:56SpeakerIt would have been nice if you could have tasted the shelled seeds.

2:53:00BubblemanYes.

2:53:01SpeakerThat would have given you a good idea.

2:53:03BubblemanAbsolutely. Well, if any hemp companies are listening, you know, get in touch with me. I'd absolutely love to move. For all the work I did in the hemp world back in the day in Manitoba and the starting of different companies that all of me and my partners did and how it grew and now they've, you know, they've got their Manitoba harvest and I personally just wanted to really Thank you for watching.

2:53:35BubblemanYou will definitely want to look into it, in the least look into it, because I'll tell you, if I had the infrastructure to start the company tomorrow and get the extractor, I'd do it myself. But there's companies that are way 20 years further along down the line than anyone that would start today to do this. And imagine Indra could just come in and make any of these companies have the highest quality oil and protein powder isolate.

2:54:03BubblemanNot to mention the extractor also could extract the cannabinoids, which I guarantee you none of them have that option right now to be able to use the same machine that's defatting the oil. He can also extract all of the cannabinoids and terpenes from the plant matter as well. I don't know.

2:54:22SpeakerThat's just nuts. In addition to that, Mark, later that year,

2:54:30SpeakerA friend of mine came to me and wanted to know about the shells that come off the seeds after they're hulled. He brought me a huge bag of them, and I extracted them. And what he got was a very powerful mixture of tannins and other compounds that were there in very small amounts, but when I extracted a 100-pound load of them, All of the compounds were concentrated and showed up in very large amounts.

2:55:00SpeakerAnd there was so much good stuff in the shell, it's a whole other avenue of approach towards it. Whole other industry. It is. The tannins alone, the guy said that there was endless use for them.

2:55:16BubblemanWow. So maybe there isn't even another business. Just go around collecting and maybe even getting paid to take away the seed hulls from these companies that have to deal with them otherwise.

2:55:29SpeakerMarcus, you can remember I developed a new outdoor variety of large seeded hemp. Finola. Finola. No, no, no, no, that's, that is the highest yielding.

2:55:44BubblemanRight, the highest oil yielding.

2:55:46SpeakerI'm talking about a variety I developed called Tina that has 20 seeds to the gram. So it's three times the size of a normal seed. And it can be grown outdoors in Canada. And yeah, it It would be interesting if somebody was really interested in that. I hate to see it just end up not being grown. It was tested for a couple years in Ontario and it performed really well outdoors in Canada.

2:56:21SpeakerThe seed matured and all that sort of stuff.

2:56:29SpeakerI wish somebody out there was really, really interested. Let's do it. I'm not sure it would be suitable for protein. This is especially because the seed is enormous.

2:56:42BubblemanIs it bigger than your giant Chinese seeds that you have?

2:56:46SpeakerOh, it's almost that big. Wow. That's one of the parents.

2:56:51BubblemanOkay, okay, I see.

2:56:52SpeakerThe other parent was Fanola to make it earlier. Oh, interesting.

2:56:57BubblemanYeah, Sam has incredible seeds that are like these giant, well, they're not walnuts, but like from a cannabis seed perspective, they look pretty big, especially because whenever he shows them to you, he shows them to you with these, I don't know if they're like Nepali seeds, I think maybe.

2:57:12SpeakerThe other ones are from the Himalaya Mountains. And the biggest Chinese ones I have are 12 to 1 gram. And I grew those here, and they produce 12 seeds to 1 gram. Yeah, they're huge. They're the size of small peas.

2:57:28BubblemanYeah, yeah, exactly. They're like peas. But what about those little tiny Himalayan ones? How many per gram?

2:57:35SpeakerSlightly over 800 seeds to one gram.

2:57:40BubblemanWow, that's a serious variation between those two.

2:57:43SpeakerThe farther you go up the hills in the Himalayas, the more you find plants that produce massive amounts of seeds for propagation because the conditions are tougher the higher you grow up. The farther down you go towards the jungle, you find these other seeds. I was curious about those seeds. So when I collected them at, I think it was a little over 9,000 feet in the Himalayas near Pelgam in Kashmir, When I collected those, I grew them in Santa Cruz, California, and they produced seeds that were the exact same freaking size.

2:58:22SpeakerI mean, they were so tiny, they were, they almost were as tiny as poppy seeds. Well, gee, it's not going to change in one generation. Well, I wanted to see if it was environmental affecting the seed size because it was 9,000 feet up in the mountains. So I grew it at seed level and bango, bango, they were exactly the same. Of course, and they probably, you'd have to live to be about Three and a half, 4,000 years to figure out if the environment made the change to give it time.

2:58:53SpeakerYou and I, Sam, are going to be like the pyramids. I'm half that old now, dude. What are you talking about? I know. When we pass on, they'll be looking at us like the pyramid and the sphinx, wondering what these different things were that we did and knew about because How would we even transfer everything we've done and known so far prior to death? You know, it's going to be nearly impossible.

2:59:23BubblemanWell, I'm sure glad you both show up here every Sunday and share little fractions of it. I really, really do appreciate it. I'm not going to lie.

2:59:33SpeakerHey, can I get a question for everybody? Is there a way that we can publicly see how police departments and the CHP and the Massachusetts State Police and other police departments have to now publicly address the change of laws? Will they be making public position statements available? It would be really interesting. If anybody knows one, please post them in Ash Church. I think it's probably still going to be illegal to smoke and drive everywhere.

3:00:04BubblemanI remember, sorry, but in Jamaica when that came up was a funny situation because it's like, listen, trying to get a lot of people in Jamaica to stop smoking and driving, that will be a big one. That will be a really, really big, hard, hard take. Now, I have no problem doing it here in North America, but like I said, I got busted at a roadblock with a trunk full of weed and that left me a little bit mildly scarred.

3:00:31BubblemanI don't feel comfortable putting myself in a position where I'm getting pulled over and asked why my vehicle smells like cannabis anymore. I don't mind if it smells like fresh or hash, but not so much smoked because just from my own experience, you know.

3:00:47SpeakerI think you'd have better luck trying to Make sure Catholic priests stayed away from little boys. And Mark, one thing you'll have to admit, neither one of us want intoxicated drivers driving on the same roads where our family ran. That said, would you rather have them smoking a joint or drinking?

3:01:10BubblemanWell, I just, I'm not sure if they're completely intoxicated after smoking a joint. I think that should really be studied and looked at and made, like Chimera mentioned.

3:01:18SpeakerYou know what I'm saying? Oh yeah. It's obviously more dangerous than drinking and driving.

3:01:25BubblemanAnd then we haven't even mentioned opioids. Like people are popping these pills left, right, and center and they're zombied out. There's all sorts of different like... Thank you so much for joining us.

3:01:59SpeakerThat you should get used to the medication before operating heavy equipment. So it's technically legal to drive with THC in your system because if you are using Marinol and you are living your life and going to work and driving to work, that's all completely legitimate. The same notification is in the Boeing 787s when you're going to. Fly one and you take those pills, you know. Make sure that you fly it a few times without too many passengers on it before flying regularly with these pills.

3:02:36BubblemanPoor cannabis is constantly being compared to alcohol, and it's an unfortunate rap for cannabis to constantly be next to alcohol, this just insanely dangerous substance that just kills hundreds of thousands. It's just killed millions of people, and cannabis is just this super benign substance that heals people and increases the quality of life and increases positive thought and positive intention and positive manifestation. Thank you for joining us.

3:03:21BubblemanJustin Trudeau's most important thing, and I'm like saying this as a parent. Okay, as a parent, let's just go through the small list of things that kids have access to, which is like alcohol right off the bat. They still go fish outside of places where you can buy alcohol and they steal it from their homes. And then of course, Thank you so much for joining us.

3:04:07BubblemanLiterally the least of our worries. How could it even be on the list with the rest of those substances of things? They're kids. They need to have something. They're in high school. They're looking for things. They're looking to be a part of sports teams. They're looking to learn about art and they're looking to learn about technology. But part of the thing they're also looking at is the practicing of altering their consciousness.

3:04:29BubblemanAnd this is something that we learn at a very young age when we get given a sugary treat for the first time and We've been conditioned that way.

3:05:04SpeakerTo dismiss common sense and rather adhere to the corporate BS line that comes down. Listen, the trickle-down theory is busy at work. Here's the problem with it. None of the stuff that's trickling down is anything you'd want to get on yourself.

3:05:23BubblemanYeah, well, that's about as accurate as it could be stated right there. I'm just saying, don't be so worried about the kids. Don't be so worried about the... There are other things we probably should be focusing on, both about driving under the influence and our children, than their use of cannabis. That's my opinion anyway. I know I don't speak for everyone.

3:05:47SpeakerHey, when my kids said they wanted to smoke, I sat down, rolled up a joint with them and said, okay. Here, let's see how you handle this one.

3:05:56BubblemanAnd what were they, like about seven, eight years old?

3:05:59SpeakerNo, they were 14. My son was 14, and his younger sister had smoked with my wife. And anyway, rolled up a joint, and at the end of it, I said to him, well, what do you think? And he leaned forward on the table, grabbed the ball and the papers, and rolled a perfect spliff that I could have never done in my life. We had a second one, and I realized...

3:06:24SpeakerYeah, they have access to everything. They have access to your picture, your medicine. If you think you're hiding something from your kids, I have a hot flash. Anybody who thinks they're hiding something from their kids is fostering a dangerous double standard in the kid's mind. That's where the kids later say, well, I don't want to do as you say. I want to do as you do. And then most think their parents are full of shit because they tell them one thing and do another.

3:06:53BubblemanIt starts at a young age too. Like children are brilliant. And only after having my third one, 11 years after having our last two, did I really understand that as sort of being a little older and being able to watch him grow up. He's aware of everything. And sometimes the odd thing, like if you say open the sliding door, he might not know what the sliding door is.

3:07:15BubblemanBut Overall, the vibe. He's aware of everything. That's why people think it's cute sometimes when they might all laugh at a punchline and the baby laughs simultaneously and they're like, oh, oh look, he's laughing with us. It's like, yeah, of course he's laughing with you. Like, he thought the joke was funny too. He likes that everyone's laughing. Everyone's... It's incredible to see the level of understanding that children have at a very, very young age.

3:07:38BubblemanLike I'm talking like one and two years old. And when you see a lot of parents who talk around their children as though their children aren't there listening and understanding what they're saying, I see it constantly. And I'm like, man.

3:07:52SpeakerWhen Annie was pregnant, every day for four hours, an hour here, an hour there, I would put headphones on her tummy and Number one, talk to them. Number two, play them records about philosophy, science, reading, understanding. I know I was sort of taken after the Superman thing there in the capsule, right? But it was a nine-month journey, and why not expose them to all this? They're just sitting in there twiddling their thumbs and looking at bodily processes and learning about their I used to talk to Johnny all the time and I'd tell him, push back once for yes and twice for no.

3:08:33SpeakerAnd we had long yes, no conversations. And I always told him I would put my hands in a funnel on her tummy and go, be a good boy, make yourself a good body, and I'll see you soon. And the first thing he did when he came out and they handed him to me and I held him up and I said, And I looked at him and he said, hi.

3:08:56SpeakerAnd the doctor, the Jewish guy standing there said, you know, it's not just like that kid said hi. The nurse who was staying there looked at him and said, you are truly an idiot. He did say hi. Everybody knew him, heard him except you. It's true. They're totally aware right then and there at birth. And the idea that we think that they are not This is really amazing to me.

3:09:21SpeakerIt's like you think you just fucked them out of the void just now and they came with nothing. But they came with everything and they came fully innocent. And yeah, it isn't as destroyed as we grow up with culture, unfortunately.

3:09:37BubblemanIt's interesting that you say that they're there with everything, that they show up that aware, you know, because it's not until I started doing macro photography that I realized the same thing was true for the cannabis plants that I was photographing. I think seedlings, and when I was looking at these seedlings under my macro lens, I was noticing that even on the first set of leaves, not the round ones, the cotyledon, but the epicotyl, the first set of real true leaves, there were resin glands present on it immediately, like right from the start of the plant's life, and I really used to think Thank you so much for joining us.

3:10:39SpeakerI saw little white hairs on the first set of leaves on plants seed in India on the top of the roof in Bangalore right at the equator. They produced two leaves and three white hairs, the first thing right off the bat. And they just continued becoming a bud all the way until they were two feet tall. And they never for once bifurcated or started doing anything else except making a bud.

3:11:06SpeakerSo being on the equator was a very, very good thing for them.

3:11:16BubblemanOh, we've rocked out for three hours and 11 minutes so far on this Sunday afternoon hash church. Hopefully going to get out there with my family today. I have my mother visiting, which is a very nice treat. We only get her once every year or two. I think it's been two years since the last time she came out here from Manitoba. So I'm definitely looking forward to spending some time with her and my family later today.

3:11:41BubblemanHope you guys... Go ahead, Todd.

3:11:43SpeakerI am going to bail.

3:11:44BubblemanI'm going to go play. It's beautiful out. Nice. Well, you live in California. You can say that pretty much every day, I'm sure. That's why I migrated to California. Yeah, so you could say, it's beautiful out. I'm going to go outside. It's beautiful out. Yeah, huge fan of not having to deal with winter. Nice. Well, get those plants out on your deck. I know.

3:12:04SpeakerLet's grow legal weed. It's just, I don't know, going to shift gears. Thank you, everybody, for joining us. It was a lot of fun talking to you. Yeah, California.

3:12:13Etienne FontanWhat six plants are you going to grow? What flavors? You've got choices now.

3:12:18SpeakerOh, yeah. Okay. Well, I want a field, so I'm not sure how compatible I am with the law already.

3:12:26BubblemanI want a field. Hey, you know what, Todd? Just plant a field, and if they come there, just be like, listen, this is a co-op here. We have many, many people, six plants are in this 6,000 plants. I'm sure they'll be fine with it.

3:12:41SpeakerI think we can plant an unlimited amount of hemp, so we can just fill the front yard with hemp just for the fun of it.

3:12:48BubblemanYeah, don't do that.

3:12:50SpeakerDon't do that.

3:12:56BubblemanYeah, you are. Six 20-pounders to everyone in California. Look, there's like 40 million people in California, and if they're all growing six plants, that's an enormous amount of cannabis. My goodness.

3:13:08SpeakerIt'll all get burnt in the end. Yep, it usually does.

3:13:13BubblemanIt usually does. Well, I do want to thank everyone for coming out to Hash Church. Thanks to Judy for sharing her time with us, and hopefully we'll be able to get her back and have a nice conversation about terpenes and the different work that she's doing. Dr. Natasha, always a pleasure to have you in as well. Dr. Mark Scaldone, always a pleasure. And of course, Indra and Skunkman Sam with the wicked stories and the wonderful vibrations.

3:13:38BubblemanChimera, Etienne, Johnny B, D420K who didn't actually make it in but I saw him in the chat and Todd McCormick as always. Thank you guys so much, the viewers for watching us. We do so appreciate it and enjoy your Sunday afternoon and make sure you feed your endocannabinoid system and spend time with loved ones. Thanks everybody. Peace out. Bye bye. Bye everybody.