Cannabis Seed Giveaway and Legalization Advocacy

0:00BubblemanHey, good morning everybody, or afternoon, or evening. Welcome to Hash Church episode 80. We've been doing this for 80 weeks, if you can imagine. So that's pretty cool. I'm going to do my thing as always. I'll be muting me over here. I'll be opening up a Facebook page, and I'll be sending out some links to our panelists, as always. I'm having a little bit of trouble with hashtags these days.

0:25BubblemanI make the original link, and I share it everywhere, and then, of course, it doesn't work, and I have to reset it up. So, sorry about that, everybody. Let's do my quick, quick...

0:43BubblemanIt's funny because I've got endless people bugging me in the meantime while I'm trying to set this up. But let me just do a quick new message and invite in the panelists real quick here. And we've got all sorts of things to talk about this week on Hash Church, so I'm kind of looking forward to it. Lots of different topics we will be able to cover. Make sure that we get all these people invited in.

1:06BubblemanSo many people, so little time. Trying to remember. Each week, who to invite in is also a minor glitch on my part. So let me see. We got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Maybe Chris Bennett wants to come in and share some of his stories with us. Maybe Dana Larson wants to come in and talk about his 1 million seed giveaway. I guess I can always invite people that I've forgotten about afterwards.

1:45BubblemanAll right, here we go. Let's do this. Boom. Oops, that's the wrong link. Don't want to be sending them the YouTube link. I want to send them the actual Hash Church link. As you guys can see, I'm definitely feeling a lot better this week. I was a little bit well-spirited, if you will, in my moods. I was a little bit rough. But I'm feeling much better. Got my La Collada shirt on and my Grow Room hat.

2:12BubblemanThank you to those two guys very much. Also rocking MTG Seeds. Some of the first Bubble Man collabs that went down went down with MTG Seeds. So I got to fucking represent those guys. Welcome, ATN.

2:25Etienne FontanHow are you doing this morning? I'm doing fine, my friend. You sound like you're almost healthy.

2:31BubblemanYou know, I'm coming back, bro. I'm coming back. It feels right. It feels good.

2:36Etienne FontanSorry to see the Hash Church issue again with Link. That happened again last week where you set it up the night before. We all sent out the link and then what happened?

2:45BubblemanAt least three or four weeks now it's happened in a row. It's kind of a bummer. It's just what it says is it says that it won't initialize and so I don't get the little button. Usually at the bottom I get this little thing that turns time. It goes 1%, 2%, 3% and then it eventually... It hits a little green button that says go live. And what's happening is with the one that I produced a week or five or three days early, it just won't accept.

3:15BubblemanIt just doesn't initialize. And it says to me, oh, the stream won't initialize. Wait 15 minutes. Well, I always do it at like 8.50 or 8.55. So I'm like, I don't have 15 minutes. I got to do this shit now. It's fun. I like to stress out about it a bit.

3:36Etienne FontanIt's all good.

3:39BubblemanGood morning.

3:41Etienne FontanMorning, John.

3:43SpeakerI think I got the cold that you had.

3:47Etienne FontanGot spread around, huh?

3:49SpeakerYeah, somehow I went out and now I'm stuffed up.

3:54BubblemanStuffed up is definitely not the cold that I had. You're about seven solid days of getting more intensely sick every day before you have what I have.

4:04SpeakerNo, I mean... Wild oregano, grapeseed extract.

4:07BubblemanIt doesn't matter. I did it all. I did it all. Stop. If you have what I have, you are going to be destroyed. I promise you.

4:17SpeakerI haven't seen you since like two days ago, so I'm pretty sure I don't have what you have.

4:22Etienne FontanIt's a virus. It's just going to go through you. Just strap in and ride it out.

4:27BubblemanThe one me and my wife had, the one that everyone had in Spain was absolute and complete destruction. Fucking insane. Well, I almost thought Scaldone was hitting a bong. I was like, is Scaldone ripping a bong this morning?

4:41Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, just a little cup of joe, that's all.

4:45BubblemanThat's cool. We'll accept your cup of joe. Is that a hive coffee cup?

4:50Dr Mark ScialdoneNo. No hive coffee cup. Just one with a big M on it.

4:54Etienne FontanHey, look what I got.

4:56Dr Mark ScialdoneMy initial. Oh, cool. Awesome.

5:00BubblemanYeah, and I got a little banger too. I haven't used this one yet, but I did take out the banger yesterday, or two days ago with Johnny B, and we ripped up the ceramic banger. It was, fuck, it did the job for us, didn't it, John?

5:14SpeakerIt did the job. It worked. We had some water, and we had an awesome nail, and hash, and a drone.

5:24Dr Mark ScialdoneWe know it's a different flavor. Just saying. Do you notice a different flavor at all, John? I mean, does it taste different off the ceramic versus a quartz now?

5:35SpeakerI think every time you hit it on a different surface, you're going to get a different flavor. You're going to try to experience it in a different way. I've learned that with Mark over the last year with all the different, I guess, all the different bolts we've gone through, D-mail, from ceramic, from quartz. Yeah, I mean, I definitely have learned that. Three, Mark, and be able to experience it with all of these different surfaces to smoke off of.

5:59BubblemanYeah, there's no doubt about it. I mean, the chemistry is straightforward as well. The heat dissipates from each surface differently, and the way the terpenes react to that heat disperses creates a different flavor. So ceramic, silicon carbide, quartz, glass, titanium, sapphire, all dissipate. Give me a different tasting rip. Now you can manipulate that based on the temperature that you put your nail at because of the way, say, quartz dissipates its heat.

6:34BubblemanIt's very unique in the sense that you can grab a quartz piece right here and it can be orange hot right here. You could never do that with titanium. Ceramic also gets hot fairly, you know, more so than quartz. Sapphire as well. So there's advantages to the quartz doing that and there's disadvantages. The disadvantage I have with quartz doing that is when I had my halo dish, for example, If I held up, say, you know, imagine this is my halo dish, although I think I have a quartz silicone that we could use that would be a little bit better.

7:09BubblemanYeah, I do, right here. So here's the shape of the halo dish. This is a silicone carbide. They make them in quartz silicone as well as sapphire. And so with this one, the heat goes all the way up. It cleans beautifully. With my sapphire, the heat goes all the way up and it cleans beautifully. But with the quartz, because of the way it dissipates heat... The side walls do not get cleaned from the bottom flat coil.

7:35BubblemanOnly the bottom gets cleaned, and the side walls stay very dark, and you'd have to torch that bowl to clean it later. So it's just little things like that. I want to welcome Dana Larson into the room.

7:48Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's that? Can you just get a torch so it's totally clean?

7:56BubblemanCertain surfaces you can. If you do it to the sapphire, the sapphire most likely will crack and break. I have not used the ceramic a ton, but I was also told with ceramic not to torch it in one exact spot, or you could break the ceramic. It's better to go around and be quite even with it.

8:16Etienne FontanI've broken a couple of hives already just from direct heat on a torch, just how it is. It works initially great for a few. The thing that I just got was the hive bottom with the sick top for my... I have a torch tube from Hitman. And with the silicon carbide insert for the hive, fucking awesome. And the flavor is really excellent. Don't get me wrong. The flavor from the quartz is good.

8:45Etienne FontanThe sapphire is superb. The ceramic I use in my office at work, and it's really good. It's very consistent.

8:52BubblemanAre you using the white ceramic or the silicon carbide?

8:57Etienne FontanYes, I'm using the white ceramic at work. Here at home, I'm using the sapphire. And I have, like I said, the silicone cardboard. That's sapphire? Yeah, this is sapphire. It gets dirty.

9:08BubblemanWell, you need to clean it. Turn your torch up to 950 degrees and it turns white. It's the easiest nail to clean with torch heat. I'm so impressed with it because even the side walls from a flat coil will climb up those walls and clean it like butter.

9:26BubblemanWanted to welcome Dana Larson into the room, or at least his avatar. Dana's been actively involved in giving away a million cannabis seeds over the course of the last couple of weeks. He's had incredible help from volunteer activists throughout the city. They've been doing pizza party, seed packing, madness. So, I don't know, Dana, tell us a little bit about your latest madness that you're doing. Johnny Appleseed.

9:51BubblemanDana Appleseed.

9:53Dana LarsonYeah, well, I got a lot of seeds. Mostly hemp seeds.

10:02Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's fucking awesome.

10:07Dana LarsonAnd I'm sending them all out across Canada. I represent so far over 300,000 seeds because a lot of folks are getting 100 packs. And the idea is to plant these around your community and around your town and also in your own front yard or patio to grow them openly. And it's been good. It's been a lot of work. We've got about 10,000 orders ready to go in the mail.

10:26Dana LarsonAnd that's pretty exciting.

10:28BubblemanAbout 10,000 orders.

10:33Dana LarsonI said, and I hope, it'll be a lot more too, it'll keep growing, but yeah, it was a lot, and like, you know, I announced this thing, I didn't quite think the logistical aspect of how I was going to get 10,000 orders into the mail and sort all these seeds out and everything, but we've got a number of volunteers coming by and helping and sorting things out, and my living room and kitchen, they're all full of boxes and bags of seeds and plates with everything all organized, but Yeah, we're getting a lot of them out there.

11:00Dana LarsonAnd then on Tuesday I'm going on tour across Canada. I'm going to go to ten different cities and I'll be giving away seeds and talking about the history of cannabis in Canada. And I expect to be able to give away a million seeds by the time I'm done with this whole thing. And we're going to overgrow Canada together.

11:18BubblemanThat's a pretty fucking cool idea, you know, dude. I mean, and with taking it to the million, it's really like, it's not just a... Thank you for watching.

11:45Dana LarsonIf they get some weed at the end of this or some nice buds at the end of it or whatever, that's fine. But to me, that's not really the point. The point is more to normalize outdoor growing of cannabis, to have civil disobedience about this. And to me, it's kind of the last step. This whole campaign has been a civil disobedience campaign for the last 20 years or so.

12:05Dana LarsonWith selling bombs and pipes, selling seeds, having our rallies where we sell and enjoy cannabis, and medical dispensaries everywhere. These things are all still illegal, but they're all pretty much so accepted that you can't even tell they're illegal anymore in most parts of the country. Thank you for watching.

12:44Dana LarsonReally, for me, I'm not worried about the cops because I live in Vancouver and I'm a public figure. No one's going to come after me. The ones who are brave on this are the ones who follow through and grow this cannabis openly on their own property. If you live in northern Canada or some small town in Saskatchewan and you answer my cry and grow cannabis on your own property, that's the person who's being brave.

13:05Dana LarsonBecause that's taking a real risk and that's standing up to the authorities. But I think it's wonderful that so many people are stepping up and joining in on this. And there's been hundreds and hundreds of volunteer hours involved in this effort so far. I've got another probably 15 people coming over today to put in an eight hour shift here helping out. And that has been wonderful to see that response.

13:27Etienne FontanSo Daniel, what is the end game? What are you hoping to see out of this? Is this growing into, no pun intended, growing into a culmination? What I hope comes out of this is that by this time at the end of the year, they stop arresting people for growing cannabis.

13:54Dana LarsonToo many of us doing it in the same way that they stop arresting people for running bong shops, and they stop arresting people for having seed banks, and they stop arresting people for having dispensaries. And in Vancouver and in many cities, they pretty much stop arresting anybody for possession. And I want to see the same thing happen with personal cultivation. And I'm looking forward to getting pictures of these plants growing in parks and trails and planters and street circles and all these kind of front of police and city halls all across Canada.

14:25Dana LarsonThat's what I'm excited about.

14:27Etienne FontanI think it's a brave step. Here in America, back when I was starting off in activism in the early 90s, a gentleman by the name of Ron Kaczynski, a very brave Californian, He said a quarter pound to the president, the vice president, Janet Reno, members of Congress, and everything. Unfortunately, we don't have the internet and all the other ways, so it really didn't make much of a blip because he wanted to really challenge the system.

14:53Etienne FontanI think this seems to be a much better way to spreading the word around so that people can actually put their money where their mouth is. So congratulations on a great idea, and I hope it's fully executed.

15:06Dana LarsonI did actually do something similar. I didn't send a quarter pound, but I sent a gram of cannabis to every one of Canada's liberal MPs last year for a Christmas present. Some of them Before it, some of them called the police and gave it to the cops. I included a copy of my history book as well. The idea was if you smoke a drink, read the history book and learn about the history of cannabis in Canada.

15:28Dana LarsonA few of them gave the cops the history book as well, which I thought was a little odd, but then, well, maybe the cops will read it and learn something about cannabis they didn't know, so... And I also sent a half ounce of weed to Christy Premier about a year and a half ago. So I like doing that stuff too, but this is so different. And I think probably the biggest mail-out to individuals of cannabis seeds in this time period has ever been done in the world.

15:54Dana LarsonNobody's ever sent out 10,000 orders for cannabis seeds within a two- or three-week period. As far as I know, not even the busiest seed bank comes close to that kind of... Mail out. So a million seeds or 300,000 seeds so far. I'm happy about that.

16:10SpeakerAnd I missed the beginning. What kind of seeds are they, Dana?

16:14Dana LarsonWell, they're mostly hemp seeds, so I'm calling them CBD seeds because it's a variety of hemp that should grow about five feet tall. It'll have one large central cola, minimal branching, and it's known for seed production. But if you grow it Sensibia style and kill all the males around it and let it grow to its maturity, it'll have a decent CBD level of resin in it. What variety is the hemp?

17:01Dana LarsonI'm not sure the actual, which variety it is, and I'm not sure I want to put that out there, because the farmer, sorry, the farmer, I've got to put my charger for my computer, it's going to die. The farmer gave it to me, obviously he's breaking the rules by doing this, it could get in a lot of trouble, so I don't want to identify the strain, because that could help identify him personally.

17:21Dana LarsonBut it's a variety, it's designed for seed production, it'll grow about five feet tall, and got a big central core. It should be a nice supply of resin if they grow properly.

17:32SpeakerCan it be grown outdoors in Canada?

17:34Dana LarsonYeah, it's an outdoor strain. It should be grown outdoors, absolutely. The guy who did it is from BC. It's designed for outdoor cultivation. It'll grow well. And the marijuana seeds that I supplied also are mainly outdoor strains designed for outdoor cultivation.

17:53BubblemanSo the plan is to give away a million seeds, Sam. That's what his plan is. He's trying to normalize growing across Canada just so plants are growing in parks. Growing all over the place.

18:05SpeakerI'm not sure how much difference it'll make, but I'm all for it. I mean, I've given away a million seeds myself, mostly of skunk number one.

18:15Etienne FontanAnd I mean... Yeah, and it changed the world, Sam.

18:20SpeakerWell, but here in the Netherlands where I gave them mostly away at Million Man Marijuana Marches and stuff, it's actually gotten worse.

18:30Dana LarsonDid people grow them openly and...

18:34SpeakerYou can grow five plants on your balcony without artificial light, not with a greenhouse, but outdoors, and nobody ever bugs you anywhere in the Netherlands.

18:48Dana LarsonWell, that sounds pretty good to me. If we get to that point in Canada, I'd be happy with that.

18:52SpeakerBut the Netherlands has been...

18:57SpeakerBut Netherlands has been marching backwards for the last couple of years. You don't want to go the way of the Netherlands.

19:06Dana LarsonWe're kind of going that way now in Canada in the sense that legalization and dispensaries are being determined on a city-by-city basis. Like in Holland where it's really up to the municipalities to whether or not they're going to have coffee shops and how they're going to regulate them. Same thing is happening in Canada. We still have the laws against cannabis federally, but many cities are moving towards dispensaries and licensing them and putting them in place.

19:28Dana LarsonAnd so it's this weird situation where the federal law is different than what's happening on the ground municipally. And it's also similar to Holland in that there's no regulation of supply in Holland. The coffee shops, there's nobody overseeing what they sell. They bring their product in, they're breaking the law, they smuggle in hash, the growers that supply them are illegal. And same thing with our dispensaries here.

19:50Dana LarsonWe were allowed to get dispensed, but we're still, if somebody gets caught driving their cannabis to our dispensary, they're going to get it seized and get punished. But once it's in the door, we can sell it out the front door and it's okay. So in many ways, Canada's following the Dutch model, even though that's not really the best model.

20:06SpeakerThat's not what you want, though, because Holland, the last several years, is stepping backwards. You go and drive a person to go buy fertilizer in the Netherlands, and that person wants to use that fertilizer for a grow, and you knew that, then you could be sent to prison for two years now in the Netherlands for conspiracy.

20:28Etienne FontanHoly shit. So, Dana, I'm reading that the Canadian government is actually going to cause quite a stir at the UN here upcoming on the 20th, or at least is going to be one of the lead nations, so it seems that maybe locally there are still being pains in the asses, but from what I'm reading, it seems they want to come out of the closet, so to say, in the international community.

20:53Etienne FontanSo, have you heard any rumblings regarding that?

20:59Dana LarsonYeah, I think that'll be very positive, sorry. And I think that Canada's already been saying some stuff at the UN to ending the war on drugs and moving towards legalization. I think that's very positive. I don't think we have to wait for them to do anything in Canada. This idea that these treaties are in their hands and stop us from legalizing it is not true. We can do whatever we want.

21:22Dana LarsonBut I think it's important. The UN is the big international body that promotes prohibition, that's always been going after countries that move towards legalization and harassing them, complaining about it. And so having them come on board and move towards legalization would be wonderful. And if Trudeau can help push the U.N. in that direction, that would be great. You know, so far, Trudeau's been good on rhetoric, but hasn't really done anything.

21:46Dana LarsonThe laws that we have are still the same as the laws that Harper brought in. A guy a couple of weeks ago got charged for cultivation of one plant in Ontario, cops found him with one plant and actually charged him for that. So things are still bad in Canada, but Trudeau's saying the right stuff. We're saying some of the right stuff. He doesn't know anything yet. And if they move the U.N. and push the U.N. towards that, I'll be very happy with that.

22:08Dana LarsonThat will be a big step.

22:12BubblemanYeah, it's definitely a bit of a bummer to see all these people still being arrested in Canada for even just simple possession. There's been one over...

22:21Dana LarsonI actually bought a billboard. I saw your billboard. I actually bought a billboard off in Ottawa. It's up right now. And it says, 25,000 possession arrests since Trudeau became Prime Minister. Stop the arrests. And it's a few blocks from Parliament Hill. And we based that number on what the last number of arrests was last year when we had statistics. And since all the cops have been saying they're not stopping arrests and all the prosecutors have been saying they're still going to kill, I assume it's the same number.

22:46Dana LarsonAnd so there's been 25,000 possession arrests since Trudeau became prime minister. And that's 25,000 too many.

22:55BubblemanAbsolutely. Especially after all his promises. I mean, it makes sense that if you have a vision that you're going to be bringing legalization or a decriminalization or whatever it is he's trying to do, you'd think the start of that would be to stop arresting people for doing something that's clearly not a crime or at least on the books isn't going to be a crime in the very near future.

23:20Dana LarsonYeah, well, they're talking about eliminating these criminal records later and giving people a... So what's the sense in arresting somebody now for something you're planning on giving them a pardon for next year? Like, that doesn't make any sense at all. You know, I understand it takes a lot to get legalization fully in place, and we can be patient and wait a little while for that, that's okay, but as long as they stop arresting For possession and personal cultivation, as far as I'm concerned, five plants or less and an ounce or less should no longer be a crime in Canada to have in your possession.

23:49Dana LarsonThat's not the final answer, but that's a good start to show that they're sincere, that they're moving in the right direction, take some of the pressure off, and then we can wait a year to figure out how we're going to get marijuana in stores and how they're going to regulate it and all that kind of stuff. But to keep arresting people now for possession When Trudeau smoked pot while he was an MP, whereas mom says she still smokes pot, whereas dad smoked pot, whereas It seems like Ontario Hashish in the chat room has nailed it pretty good.

24:16Dana LarsonHe says, but Bubble Man, he wants to protect the kids from cannabis. And it seems to be the shield that they're using, which is crazy because...

24:40BubblemanIt was the same sort of like arrow that we threw to break the last final shield of prohibition, which was we can't allow for children to be suffering when cannabis could be helping them. And they've inverted that and they've turned it into, well, we really have to protect the children. And that's really just a kind of fallacy. What they're really trying to protect is the corporate business end of the profit margin of cannabis in Canada, my opinion.

25:08SpeakerNot to sound weird, but, you know, they used that argument to end alcohol prohibition because the violence got so out of hand in America. The initial rallying cry was, you know, prohibit alcohol to save our children. And then after alcohol prohibition, the rallying cry was end prohibition to save our children because they were just, you know, Al Capone style violence in the street wasn't going over too well with parents.

25:32Etienne FontanWell, people going blind from bathtub, gin, and all kinds of other fun things.

25:37SpeakerYou know what's weird, though, with the children argument, to me at least, it's like, what are they going to do, step up and take away our cars and our trucks and our guns and our knives and, you know, no more shop knives in the kitchen because of the children, you know, no need to teach any core values, just protect them from everything that could harm them. This will be a pretty interesting world.

25:59Dana LarsonThere is a lot of bullshit about children argument. You know, some places in Canada are saying they don't want to sell or make legalization until you're 21 or 25. The 21 number they get from the states. They go, well, in America, they don't let them get until they're 21. And you go, yeah, well, that's their limit for alcohol. So that's how it is in the states. 21 is age.

26:18Dana LarsonIn Canada, you can buy alcohol at 18 or 19, depending what state you're in. And you can also join the army and go and shoot and engage in combat at the age of... You can join the military and shoot at people and get shot at at 18, but it's too dangerous to smoke a joint until you're 21 or 25 because it might hurt your brain. So your brain will be benefited from helping you against the brain they got while you were in combat.

26:43Dana LarsonBut this idea of protecting kids and putting them in prison is terrible, and we have to fight that.

26:49BubblemanShutting down dispensaries because they claim a child acquired a 16 or a 17-year-old acquired an edible or a joint or something. How many people fished outside of LCs and liquor marts and like alcohol places when they were 15, 14, 16, 17 and you stood out front and you looked and waited for the cool guy. Now I didn't do this because I didn't drink booze but I stood there with my friends while they did it.

27:13BubblemanIt was called fishing and it happens to this fucking day kids get booze bought for them by the cool guy which is really just the fucking... Not cool guy at all. And they don't go in and close those fucking liquor stores afterwards. You don't really need a cool guy. All you need is a wino. That's what I meant by a cool guy. That's why I put it in quotes.

27:37BubblemanNot cool at all.

27:38SpeakerWhen I was honestly 16, 17, I sold weed to the kid who ran the liquor store. And he used to just bring the shit out, put it in my trunk, say hi to me, if I could grab his bag, if I could wish me well, or run back inside the shop. He had a Trans Am with license plates, Floyd. Yeah.

27:55BubblemanAnd that's just the kids. Those are the kids who go there that have their parents lock the shit up. 90% of the parents don't lock the shit up, so those kids just grab it from home.

28:07SpeakerNo, he worked at the liquor store.

28:08BubblemanFill it with water. I remember the gig.

28:11SpeakerYeah, I used to call in my order on the phone. It's pretty ridiculous because most kids get the alcohol straight out of their parents' house. It's not like they force their kids, their parents to lock away the vodka, lock away the gin. We have to learn discretion. We have to learn responsibility. I don't understand at all the whole argument that, oh, teach the kids. Teach the kids what?

28:32SpeakerTo be irresponsible until they're in their 20s? That's great. I was going to say, most of the kids now go to their parents' prescription cupboard in their houses and get high off all the pharmaceutical drugs. You know, that's saying a lot because we didn't really have that. Well, it wasn't appealing like it is now to kids. I mean, now that pharmaceutical companies are everywhere in their consciousness and alcohol is almost less advertised than the pills they pop.

29:02BubblemanYeah, well, it's true. Definitely pharmaceutical drugs are... Ultimately promoted, you know, throughout the society in a way that just, I mean, it's so insane with the side effects that you can get from these drugs and people are still just swallowing them and putting them in their mouth.

29:19Etienne FontanIt's really... A few years ago it used to be illegal. You've got to understand, a few years ago it used to be illegal for pharmaceutical companies to be advertising. Now it's so prevalent and so normalized that the whole generation has already grown up with only knowing what it's like to, hey, what's a four-hour boner, Dad? And all kinds of other side effects that last longer than the, take this because you're going to bleed out your eyeballs.

29:46Etienne FontanYour anus is going to fall out. That's it.

29:49BubblemanIt's not ridiculous.

29:51Etienne FontanIt is that ridiculous. I can't imagine as a parent having to explain to your kid all these new symptoms and how that isn't fucking completing your shit to go, what do you mean your bowel's bleeding?

30:02BubblemanWhat's that mean, Daddy? Don't worry, Bobby. It says here that it may cause anal leakage.

30:10Dana LarsonIn Canada, our Senate, about ten years ago, Put together one of the most comprehensive analysis of cannabis ever in the world history. It was a massive five volume analysis. They talked to hundreds of scientists and researchers and thousands of Canadians and internationally. And they recommended full legalization with an age limit of 16 to be able to buy it in a store in Canada. 16. And these were conservative, you know, former cops, very Straight stick-in-the-mud kind of people.

30:41Dana LarsonAnd they determined that 16 was the best age limit, something I would be happy to see happen and I think is appropriate.

30:47Etienne FontanWhat did the Ledeen Commission state?

30:49Dana LarsonWhat age? Ledeen Commission actually did not call for legalization. It called for decriminalization of possession and personal cultivation and then for more research to be done before they moved to legalization. So that was 40 years ago now, over 40 years ago that happened, and of course none of that ever happened. But Ledain had one dissenting opinion saying, no, we support keeping people illegal, and one dissenting opinion saying, no, we should legalize it entirely now and get it over with.

31:20Dana LarsonBut the majority of Ledain called for an end to charges for possession and personal observation, and then for some more research to be done before they moved to selling it in stores. But it And 45 years later, we would still not be able to do any of that. But yeah, that was Lidane. Lidane was good, but Lidane, the Senate report was actually better. Lidane was more of a public policy kind of thing than a real scientific research.

31:43Dana LarsonAnd in fact, during Lidane, they commissioned a lot of studies and research. They did the research and studies, and then they cut funding before they actually tabulated the results. And so apparently there's still in Ottawa like hundreds of studies on microfiche Thank you for watching.

32:16Dana LarsonFor over four or five decades now. So that's why that crime for research is all bullshit.

32:21SpeakerThe LaGuardia report found basically the same thing even earlier. And the Indian Hemp Commission report found it more than 100 years ago. I mean, this has been going on over and over and over with all these reports. But they never follow through. They just do the reports and then sweep them under the tables.

32:44Etienne FontanWell, even here in the United States, such as when I lived in D.C., we passed a medical marijuana law, and then we had a U.S. Senator go out and pass a law making sure that there was no funding to count the ballot. And since there was no funding to count the ballot, no one could count the ballot, so therefore it was left basically in suspended animation and couldn't become law until nearly a decade later.

33:10SpeakerHold on, I can say that a little better. Representative Bob Barr saw the exit polls that the fucking medical marijuana initiative was passing, 69 to 31, freaked out, put a rider, and made it so that D.C. couldn't count the rest of the votes when it ended, because democracy is great anywhere but in America. That's really the thing there. And then later, after that prick left office, the Libertarian Party had the audacity to nominate that prick to be their running fucking president, which is when I thought the Libertarian Party went off the deep end.

33:40SpeakerThat's because democracy is tyranny of the majority.

33:44Etienne FontanAnd also, you've got to understand that a cannabis organization then hired Bob Barr a few years later as a representative and a lobbyist on the goddamn hill. How's that for fucking irony?

33:57SpeakerYou know, people kiss ass of those that are famous and I think it's really screwed up. You know, just because the guy's famous doesn't mean he's good and the decisions he made as a United States Senator, you know, hurt democracy because it took a federal court like 10 years later to reverse that and finally count the vote and implement medical marijuana in Washington, D.C. It was unbelievable.

34:18SpeakerIt took the ACLU to sue our own government for them to count the votes in our capitol. Swallow that, everybody. And Todd, are you happy that he is now a convert for cannabis? You know what's interesting? I don't know how much of a convert he was. He was looking for paychecks when he got out, and he took some from MPP and others. I don't know how much he's been on the scene after that.

34:41SpeakerI read articles that he wrote. I think he is a convert. And I'll tell you, you can hate what he did before he was a convert, but anybody who was a convert, let's be honest, they're on our team even if they did terrible shit in the past. But my point is I think he wrote those letters under the duress of a payment, so to speak. He got paid to make comments that were favorable to our side because after he got out of office, he was doing what most of them do, which is revolving doors.

35:11SpeakerAnd he was just looking for money. He hasn't been on our team advocating a socially progressive position since then or since the paycheck stock is my point. You could be right, Todd. I'm presuming... I'm using optimism and you're using pessimism.

35:30Etienne FontanCome on, Sam, he's a politician, so that means he's a professional pander, end of story. So he's just, you know, makes nice...

35:37SpeakerWait a minute, are you trying to tell me that that's what Hillary is also?

35:42Etienne FontanI have to tell you this, Sam, about every single one of them.

35:49Dana LarsonHey, I ran for office. I'm only a pander on a lot of boats.

35:56SpeakerDana, you're such a one-issue candidate, though. You can't even waver. You can't even waver. You're like, I'm here to talk about pot, the environment. Well, pot's in the environment. Let's talk about pot in the earth. Wait a minute. What about hashish? What about industrial use of cannabis? Neither one of those are really pot.

36:17BubblemanI support them all. Absolutely, 100%, unequivocally, 1,000% access for everyone.

36:25BubblemanFor all forms of cannabis.

36:29Dana LarsonYeah, I wanted to say something about police officers and politicians who are prohibitionists coming over to our side. Because that is obviously a good thing when LEAP officers or people who have been prohibitionists come over. That's great. But we're also seeing in Canada, I think, this trend of police officers becoming, working for LPs and becoming the security for LPs and politicians getting involved with these Licensed producer companies in Canada.

36:55Dana LarsonAnd a lot of them just want to continue prohibition, but they want to be the guy selling you cannabis instead of the guy on the street. And I don't like that kind of attitude. There's definitely politicians that come over for legalization, police officers that have joined the leap and become outspoken advocates. I love those guys. But I'm seeing in Canada politicians and cops Who are joining these companies to be their security or their spokespeople or their lobbyists.

37:21Dana LarsonAnd I'm not a fan of these companies. I don't see these guys as now turning against prohibition. I see them now trying to rejig prohibition so that they are the dealers and they can profit off of it. And to me those are slightly different things. And the one is good and the one is not good. I just don't make sense.

37:39SpeakerStep by step, I mean, first we get them to be our dealers, and then we'll get them to be our growers, and then pretty soon they'll be in so deep that they won't give a fuck about prohibition anymore.

37:53SpeakerYeah, it's a tough one, you know.

37:57Dana LarsonRegular people to be able to be growers and dealers and things too. We don't want it to only be certain people that can do that. I mean, that's got to be for everybody who meets. If the new system is that you can't grow pot and you're going to go to jail if you grow marijuana, but you can buy it at the store for $10 a gram, maybe that's what we've got now, but that's still not, that's still probing.

38:17Dana LarsonBecause pot, $10 or $5 a gram, those are probing prices. And legal marijuana should be available in the city. Those are prohibition prices. We're still living under prohibition. The price should be lower than my dispensary to run a business because I can't compete with Dollar Grant. That's my goal.

38:36BubblemanYeah. That's our whole goal is to normalize and get this thing into an agricultural product. People that are building multi-million dollar indoor grow facilities right now Are fucking insane. I don't think they understand and realize the importance of cannabis growing as an agricultural product. Did we grow hemp indoors? No, because that's absurd. You can't grow enough of it to bring the dollar amount down to make it an actual product that can be sold on the market.

39:03BubblemanCannabis is no different. $100 grams, gotta go. You know, 10 and 12 and 15 dollar cannabis grams, gotta fucking go. And the way that's going to happen is not in multi-million dollar indoor grow facilities with thousands of light bulbs sucking energy like you wouldn't believe. It's going to be in an agricultural product. It'll be in fields. It grows really good in fields. Sam can attest.

39:30SpeakerAbsolutely, I can grow as almost perfect cannabis outdoors, given the right location for the right variety and the right soil. And maybe a few varieties if you're further north need either partial greenhouse or a full greenhouse. But that's it. I mean, the costs are so much cheaper than under lights. That's the problem. It doesn't make enough money. That's why it's going to be indoors under lights. Thanks for watching.

40:13BubblemanWe're dispensary people that just changed the model and decided to work under the platform because this is the problem I have with both dispensaries and LPs. There are great dispensaries and there are not such great dispensaries. I'm sure there's a great LP out there. We know there are some not so great LPs. But us generalizing on both sides creates a division that I'm certain the prohibition mindset wants more than anything.

40:39BubblemanBased on a few things that like... Some idiot from one of the LPs said in the media and he continues to say it over and over again, he's managed to get all the LPs lumped in behind him and you get activists in Canada that are extremely, almost like borderline psychotic against LPs. And I don't think they see that there are actual people who don't live in our cannabis world who are comfortable with ordering herb from an LP and it comes real quick and it does the job.

41:09BubblemanI'm not talking about high-end connoisseur people who are like, I'll never buy from an LP. I mean most high-end connoisseurs don't even buy from a dispensary, let's be honest. I don't go to a coffee shop in Amsterdam when I want the goods. I go to my friend's house who sold his B-grade weed to the coffee shop and I hit his A-grade hash. That's just for me.

41:31Dr Mark ScialdoneDo they sell concentrates and hashes too?

41:36BubblemanThey're limited to selling, their concentrates are limited to a certain amount of nanograms of THC per milliliter. It's oil, so they're allowed to do olive oil and coconut oil and probably MTZ oil, all of these different things. Simple oils that can absorb the molecule and allow it to be brought into the body, but they are not currently allowed to make and sell hash. They're limited by their numbers.

42:07SpeakerYeah, so they can't supply proper concentrates for patients that are suffering. I realize that with my condition, I needed the concentrates. That's something you showed me, Mark, is with the hashes and the bubbles and how great they were for my pain. And I talked to people about it last night at a concentrate for patients. And all the patients there, they use the concentrates in order to deal with their condition.

42:30SpeakerAnd if they had to get an oil to drink or just smoke a joint, they're past that point, have been for so long, they can't go back. We're moving forward in the industry, not moving back. And I think the LPs in Canada, they're moving back in the industry as we move forward into cannabis medicine to extractions, separations of terpenes and stuff like that.

42:48Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, is that going to change where the LPs can actually provide You know, a high-grade concentrate like the kind that we're talking about here?

42:59BubblemanWe're hoping for more than that, Mark. I'd love to see the LPs be able to do that, but I'd also love to see a tertiary license. So you have your LP license, which is distribution, growing, processing, import, export. And then you have licensing for dispensaries, which would regulate them and give them a little bit more standards to be upheld. And then in the middle, all of these MMAR patients, you either give them the ones that want to grow for themselves and not be a part of the open market, because there are a few of us out there, You give us this very simple license that doesn't involve standards and regulations where they're coming and checking on our ship because it's not going on the open market.

43:39BubblemanBut for those excellent growers who are currently supplying dispensaries, they should be allowed to get a license that allows them to either work within the LP or dispensary or both. And you know, maybe even LPs would be legally allowed to supply dispensaries if they grew weed good enough and cheap enough that dispensaries were stoked on it. I just think it needs to be connected with this tertiary license that doesn't exist yet.

44:05BubblemanThe people that want to make money that are small growers, Thank you for watching.

44:25BubblemanIntensely insane and expensive as the ones for the LPs that are doing it on a much larger level because that's the kind of incentive that allows wealthy people to succeed and non-wealthy people to be not included. It's my opinion on it anyway.

44:45SpeakerYou're saying they're marked entirely that there needs to be more licensing.

44:49Dana LarsonThe problem I have with the LPs is that there's only a dozen and there's hundreds of people who have

44:56SpeakerYeah.

44:57Dana LarsonLegalization should mean that my suppliers can be supplying me with cannabis, but they've got to follow a few rules. But it should be that people who are already doing this in a decent way should be able to keep coming to legalization and not be that they are kicked out of the place by big companies and corporations. And I think it's unfortunate because you're talking about the cool LPs and the ones that have, all the cool people I know who have applied for LP have gotten them yet.

45:26Dana LarsonAnd the ones who have gotten licenses are generally the folks who are censories, who are prohibitionists, who are looking for their conference to be shut down, and who will be dicks about it. And I want to see... Is my mic not working or something?

45:41BubblemanYour mic's just very low. No, I agree with you, Dana. I just think that... That we shouldn't be wasting our energy on bashing on the LPs because they don't make the laws and it makes no sense. It just creates a division. It's like being bummed out on the dispensaries.

45:58SpeakerThey make the law a little bit.

46:00Dana LarsonThey're lobbying and they have a lot of money invested in lobbying. They do. They're lobbying for a deal. They're not doing the stuff that we want.

46:12BubblemanWell, I think the dispensaries will see that perspective a little clearer when they start spending $30,000 on their licenses or more for their shops to be able to be in business. And then maybe some regulations come in and their standards are elevated and that becomes a little bit more expensive. And then some dudes just move in next door with no regulations and no standards and undercut their market.

46:36BubblemanI think those dispensaries would be bitching much the same way some of these LPs are.

46:42Dana LarsonThe regular trade, great device, because those who pay their fee are a monopoly the city is promising them. The city is saying, put down every dispensary in 20 places, and you're going to pay for that license. Well, that's a great license to be one of the cities that can sell pot. You're going to expect the city to bust everybody else now. People aren't going to shut down.

47:06Dana LarsonIt's going to have a very hard time in Vancouver, actually, under dispensaries.

47:11SpeakerFor those dealers, even if they close your storefront, you're not going to stop selling. Dana has to fix his mic, bro.

47:16BubblemanYeah, it's so quiet. Hey, Dana, you absolutely have to fix your mic.

47:21SpeakerYou're on a roll, but none of us can hear you. I don't know how to fix it. I think a wire came loose or something. Check your connection, because you were coming through fine a sentence ago. Or reboot. Or restart.

47:33BubblemanHey, welcome, guys.

47:41BubblemanD4, kick and hash, ratio, vaping, something. And everyone's in the house. Hello, everyone. Dana will be back. Can you hear me? Bong rip. No, can't hear you. Bong rip. Bong rip.

47:58SpeakerNice job.

47:59BubblemanDamn, that's fucking 48 minutes. 48 minutes for a bong.

48:04SpeakerI didn't hear him. What did he say? Bong rip. Double dip. Turp.

48:10Dr Mark ScialdoneRip.

48:10SpeakerQuadruple dip.

48:12Dr Mark ScialdoneTriple dip. Acid trip.

48:18SpeakerAcid trip? Acid trip. Pipette dip. Yeah. DMT rip. Salvia dip. Bubble hash.

48:30SpeakerI'm making hash out in my shop. I got my bro doing the bubble hash. Darren, you don't make it hash. I raise dry sift. And... Just refining it, doing the old Mies McCollum and fucking static tech. I love it. It's one of my favorite techs to use. Get lots of resin heads off of the, you know, off of the parchment paper. Sir, I just sped up carting for you, hey?

48:57SpeakerThe horse hair fucking brush charging the screen.

49:00BubblemanOh, I got badger hair. Oh, nice. Nice. I, uh, No badgers were hurt in the making of this brush.

49:11SpeakerNor for this horse. Nor for this brush.

49:16BubblemanDo I have to go upstairs and get my brush, no? Really? No, you really don't.

49:21Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, Marcus, are the LP selling concentrates? Is one of the things that we're hearing more and more of down here is putting a cap on THC There's a lot of legislation. I know the legislation in Pennsylvania has bounced around on this. They wanted to cap all products at 10% or something like that. As you know, most strains of cannabis now exceed that. They actually, by definition, have to add an adulterant.

49:57Dr Mark ScialdoneGrind up cannabis, add an adulterant. To make it meet the 10% criteria, which is just absolutely fucking ludicrous, because the trend in the industry is to extract the medicine from the plant, and as a chemist, to get it as pure as we possibly can, and to characterize that medicine, and then to adequately be able to dose that medicine, especially for medically compromised patients and And pediatric patients and cancer patients.

50:30Dr Mark ScialdoneSo we know exactly what the dose of the medicine is in the patients that are getting it, but certainly it goes through the extraction process where you want to really maintain the highest quality of the medicine that you've just put into this investment into your cultivation and into your genetics. You want to preserve the terpenes and preserve the cannabinoids as best We have a word.

51:24BubblemanWe have it worse than that, because yes, we have that very thing with caps, not necessarily with the bud, because there's companies selling 20% plus THC, but with the extracts, it's a limited, and maybe someone on the panel knows the exact limit, it's per ml or something, and you're only allowed a certain, 30?

51:42Ryan Dank Af30 milligrams of THC per milliliter of concentrate.

51:47SpeakerHere in the Netherlands, they've already passed a law Thank you for watching.

52:10BubblemanI almost cried when I walked through WeedMD some years ago, and they showed me this giant machine kind of outside of the grow, and I was like, what the fuck is this? It's like this big corkscrew thing, and it's attached to this huge 500-gallon tank, and the tank's full of shit liquid, like literally cow and horse shit liquefied into water, and I'm like, what do you do here?

52:30BubblemanAnd they're like, well, we have to take all of our stalks and our leaves and stems and all the little, you know, what we call as hash makers, added value. They have to throw that into this grinder, and the grinder cost $40,000, if you can imagine. Forced to buy this to be able to do what they want to do. Forced to jump through these loops. $40,000 on a machine that takes all your fucking good hash material and mixes it up with shit water and then sprays it out on a field outside.

52:59BubblemanThat fucking made my soul cry.

53:03SpeakerI had to do something similar in the Netherlands, except that all we did was have a really large locked trash container that everything was put into, all the stems, all the leaves, all the ground up shake, anything that was left over that we weren't using. And then we just poured water on top of it and kept it locked within two or three days. It had so much mold running through that it was unusable.

53:33Ryan Dank AfAh. I have a great picture of Bedrocan and the owner of Bedrocan and Matt the Great Gardener outside of Bedrocan doing some pretty funny stuff to their waste material. I'll have to send that out to you so you can post it up. It's pretty funny.

53:50BubblemanMan, that hurts, man. That's just insane.

53:52Ryan Dank AfIt's like not only are you going to get like limited, but... Yeah, well, you don't have to do that now. They still have to do that to their waste, but now at least with the oil ruling, they can put all that, like you said, added value stuff back into oils. But again, that they have to dilute, so... Ouch.

54:10BubblemanWell, hopefully it all changes, you know? I mean, each country is looking at themselves to... To try and figure this out and it's, you know, there's definitely like a huge percentage of people that are trying to protect their monopoly on all sides of it. It's pretty wild.

54:26Ryan Dank AfYeah, you have to remember too that this is all bullshit just to appease the masses or the prohibitionist folk that have reluctantly allowed this to happen, right? They still have a loud voice and it's the same bullshit mentality that put Bill Blair in charge that had Trudeau put Bill Blair in charge to produce this bullshit image where he's doing something. We let the former cop take over the marijuana file and it looks like he's being responsible about it, but really it's nonsense.

55:02Ryan Dank AfIt's not the way to move forward. You know, I really like that line that Tony has said and other people have been using about treating cannabis like plutonium. It's not plutonium. It doesn't need to be traded like plutonium. It's not dangerous to have a stock fall into the hands of the, you know, the regular waste stream. It's insane. If you go to the local dump here, I could walk down on any day to the local dump and there's Many, many, many MMAR growers in this valley.

55:29Ryan Dank AfYou go down to the local dump and there's full plants and huge, huge piles of leaf in the dump and nobody says anything. But down the road an hour where one of the LPs is located, you have to go, you know, they're doing all this insane stuff with an incinerator and, like you said, this auger that contaminates the cannabis with shit so that children don't go through the garbage and pick out a fan leaf.

55:50Ryan Dank AfThat's ridiculous.

55:52BubblemanYou know, they were worried about it when we got our first experimental hemp field growing in Canada back in 1995. It was just a little five acre field and we kind of hid it back in the acreage. It was on a section way in the back corner. And of course the local high school kids found out about it once they got like 12 or 10 feet tall, big giant buds in the wind.

56:12BubblemanAnd so it was like there were several schools where kids got caught. With, like, lockers full of, like, four-foot colas just stuffed into their locker. And we were laughing so hard at the time. We were like, I wonder, like, will those kids get charged and shit? But they couldn't be charged. There was, like, it was Zola Tinocha. It was .01% THC. It was literally, like, the lowest THC herb.

56:36BubblemanIt was the schwag of the schwag.

56:38Ryan Dank AfBut they could have been charged, though. Legally, by the law, they could have been charged because it's not the THC content that makes it illegal in Canada. It's actually just being cannabis. So even CBD is a restricted chemical.

56:49BubblemanThe cops didn't really know how to deal with it. We kept our ear to the ground, and we found out none of the kids were charged in the end, and we were pretty stoked about that. There was about five...

56:57Ryan Dank AfI mean, the cops don't... Why would they want to charge these kids with a drug crime when they're carrying around a five-year-old?

57:03SpeakerWell, Mark did get all of their addresses and phone numbers, and he was able to sell them some really good hash.

57:09BubblemanYeah, I got them some great product in the end. You know. Hey, is that Bill? Did Bill make it in? You got your mic muted there, Bill, and your camera's turned off, but that would be nice to hear from Bill. Bill's like a 30 or a 35 year veteran homicide cop from Winnipeg who left the cops and joined LEAP and is a big, huge, monster cannabis activist.

57:40BubblemanI hope that he gets his camera working and... I just sent him the link on a whim when we were talking about cops and politicians changing sides, and he's definitely one of the good ones. He is fighting for cannabis normalization as hard as anyone I know. William Vandegraaff, if you want to check him out on Facebook or Google him, I'm sure he'll come up with some stuff.

58:02BubblemanHopefully he manages to fix his shit and mention something and say something with us today. It's always nice to hear. From people who have come from the other side to our side.

58:12Ryan Dank AfYeah, I don't think, you know, the police don't want to be the babysitters of society. They have enough real crime to worry about.

58:18BubblemanWell, particularly like a homicide cop, you know, he's not like, he's not, the homicide cops, in my opinion, are like, they see the world a little differently from the rest of us. And they're not really like, are you fucking kidding me with this plant? Are you fucking, what are you fucking kidding me?

58:36Etienne FontanThis is where we had to take charge. I have a friend of mine, Jeff Jones, actually got involved locally and would actually go down to, he took it so seriously he went to the local police and reached out to them and said, hey, we want to actually go and when your officers go through their training, we want you to train them on medical cannabis. And they did.

58:56Etienne FontanHe would go down with his lawyer, go down with a couple of tubs, take out a small plant and say, this is a plant that's just starting out, and this is a flowering plant, and this is what it looks like. And by taking it directly to the police, we saw an education continue in Oakland. Now, it still didn't get Todd from getting busted, don't get me wrong, but the reality is that many people have benefited from the education Because of what they've been able to understand from our side and educate other police officers.

59:32Etienne FontanBecause what we noticed was a lot of your older veteran police officers You know, and I don't want to say that, you know, I think there's a stark difference between the cops that

1:00:07SpeakerYou know, under color of law, are forced to enforce bad laws, and a guy like Bob Barr, who was a democratically elected politician, who then used his power to thwart democracy in the capital of a country that's founded on being A democratic country. And I think that it's night and day difference. And that's why I held Bob Barr as an elected politician to a higher degree of expecting they would understand democracy than the poor cops that get forced to enforce shitty laws.

1:00:42SpeakerAnd when those guys... You know, I'm sure that when they signed up, you know, to protect people and to do good things, it really bummed them out to have to go shake down a teenager for a fucking pocket full of plant. And it's not what they signed up for. But, you know, I think senators and cop cops are totally on different levels when it comes to them getting in the way of progress, if that makes sense.

1:01:08SpeakerYou know, so I'm sure that when they signed up, you know, to protect people and to do good You know, Bob Barr, I think, is in a special kind of classification of his own. When you're writing rioters to stop votes from being counted, you're a special kind of asshole.

1:01:21Ryan Dank AfDouchebaggery. Yeah, that's, I mean, that should be the real crime in a democratic society.

1:01:28SpeakerYeah, that should be. It's called the Barr Amendment. Anybody can Google it, look it up. You know, you'll read about what I'm talking about. Big ACLU case followed it. I'm totally familiar with Barr, and he was a total douche. But that said, the worse people are to cannabis, the more, in fact, activists need to try and convert them. No matter how evil they've been in the past, we need to change them.

1:01:58Etienne FontanAnd we force that change. And also, through that change of history, it has forced them to actually come around to our side, because If the prohibition and 215 and those other things hadn't happened, Bob Barr wouldn't have pandered to our side. You know, it was, you know, we got to where we were, but we still have a long ways to go.

1:02:18SpeakerWell, I mean, yesterday, I honestly reflected, it was four years ago yesterday, I got raided right in my house right here, and, you know, I put on Facebook that I was thankful that my dogs didn't get shot, and somebody put something about, oh, what a police state we live in, that you'd be thankful for that, and I was thinking, that shit happens all the time, and honestly, I'll say it out loud to people, when they came and raided me, They were, I've never seen them so nice.

1:02:44SpeakerThey were as considerate as could be, didn't trash my house, didn't shoot my dogs. Was I grateful? Fuck yeah, I was grateful. I mean, it could turn out a lot different, a lot more sorrow. I don't care if they cut down my plants, but you shoot my dog, I'm going to have a fucking lifetime of fucking sorrow. And, you know, so I'm glad that it's changing and I'm glad that they're starting to treat us somewhat humanly and not as outright criminals.

1:03:08SpeakerAnd I feel that it is changing. I mean, it sounds weird, but I've been raided so many times that they went from destroying everything in my house and smashing every bong I owned to, quite honestly, not really trashing the place and being polite and not treating me like I was the scum of the earth. And I think it's an evolution of the way they perceive cannabis.

1:03:29Etienne FontanTotally, because 20 years ago I actually had to clean your house. And then the last time all I did was bring you chocolate cake and say congratulations, you're free.

1:03:39SpeakerThat's right, right, right.

1:03:40BubblemanBoth houses have changed.

1:03:42SpeakerIt is absolutely true. That is funny you said it in perspective. You did a great job cleaning the house when I got out of prison. It looked awesome, by the way. Thanks a lot. You got all that dirt up in like every room, man. That was impressive. I had decorated my house with cannabis plants like everywhere, even the elevator. So when they trashed the place, they made sure they got dirt in every, everywhere, everywhere.

1:04:06BubblemanHey, you'll like this one, Todd. Hedy Med says, shoot my dog and you'll have a lifetime of sorrow.

1:04:15SpeakerWhat? You know, to say this out loud, though, I don't think the cops really, you know, they love dogs, too. I don't think, you know, they're all sadistic, you know, people that want to come and shoot animals. I mean, you know, when I opened the door, because my dogs were barking so loud, I got down there before they could smash my door in. The first thing I asked them when I opened the door, I had a gun in my face, was, can I put away my dogs?

1:04:37SpeakerAnd he was totally cool. He goes, can you do that? And I said, yes. So I put away the dogs, and then they came in, and it was really like,

1:04:47SpeakerGood start. More like getting a pizza than getting raided. Good start minus the gun in your face. You know, you have to be cool under pressure for sure because sometimes it's hard to articulate what you're really feeling when there's a gun in your face.

1:05:00Ryan Dank AfYeah, I got to give props to ATN there for coming and cleaning up. I've been through something similar and there's a special kind of friend that will come over. After you've had your door kicked in and helped you take care of business, so.

1:05:14BubblemanSurely is, because most people are like, I'm avoiding him like the plague now.

1:05:18SpeakerTechnically, him and his wife moved in and kind of helped me like deal with it all for the next year of my life, plus.

1:05:27Etienne FontanYeah, it turns out I was actually moving there at the time, and in between when I was physically driving across country from D.C., I got busted. And I show up at the house completely the opposite of what I had left it as. And no Todd either because he was still in jail. So what else are you going to do, right? You know, I love my friend and it was now my house too.

1:05:47Etienne FontanSo welcome to the castle.

1:05:51BubblemanFucking hell.

1:05:52Ryan Dank AfYeah, while I'm dishing out the props on that subject, I've got to thank Bubble Man too. He sent me a check for two grand after I had my little incident. I think you remember that?

1:06:02BubblemanYeah, dude. It's always good to help your buddies out when they fucking are having rough times.

1:06:10Etienne FontanYep. Well, good job, Bubble Man, and thank you very much there, Chimera, for your props there. And remember that, people, your friends are your friends. You know, friends are friends, business is business. But when it comes down... And if you fall apart, you need your friends and be there for them. I mean, straight the fuck up because that's what friends are for. Friends aren't just for fun and hanging out with.

1:06:30Etienne FontanIt's for when the shit goes down, you're there for them. Yeah.

1:06:33SpeakerBut you know what? Follow that up with one little last thing is fucking it doesn't pay to cooperate against them. I wouldn't be sitting here 20 years later having this joyful conversation with you if I had fucking fucked all my friends over and tried to avoid going to prison for half a decade. And instead, I got home and I had, you know, You were at my, you know, getting out of prison party.

1:06:53SpeakerSo, very different experience, you know, and when you prioritize your friends, they can't take those away from you. They can take your house, they can take your car, your toys, your everything, but they can't take your friends. And at the end of the day, that's all that you think about, at least in my opinion. Yep.

1:07:12BubblemanThey sure try, that's for sure.

1:07:16SpeakerYeah, they try to divide it is what they do. It's their whole point. But you know what? It was weird because it felt better to walk away from the castle than it did to even get it because I felt like by walking away from it, I kept my integrity. And I didn't have to compromise my integrity to keep something that I was working for. And that meant everything to me.

1:07:36SpeakerI know it sounds weird, but being able to walk away from such an amazing experience and be like, nope, I won't trade that for anything, you know, goodbye. I'm not going to give up my honor.

1:07:48BubblemanYeah, it's a scary thing that people give up like fast. Some people are like two years, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Other people it takes like 10 or 20 years, but they're eventually like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:08:01SpeakerI was facing a 10 year mandatory minimum at the time. You know, they were hating me. But you know what I think is weird? I think being a kid who went through cancer, I feel like, you know, when you skip ahead and realize you die at the end of this experience, no matter how you go through it, it's better to go through it a bit bold and, you know, And to be true, you know, it's because you die anyway.

1:08:20SpeakerThere's no two ways around it. I'm not trying to be a, you know, Debbie Depressant or anything, a Debbie Downer, but we all die at the end of this trip. Why not go through this trip bold and proud and adventurous?

1:08:32Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, Todd, I saw that you reposted that announcement that Obama had commuted all those sentences on those criminals. It's just, it's so weak to see like only two cannabis offenders in that entire list. Do you think that there's a bigger program going on within Obama administration toward the end of the year to really make some kind of big announcement on cannabis offenders?

1:09:00SpeakerYou know, I think a lot of people want to talk about Obama doing something like that when he walks out. I have no faith. I have no hope. Hope is irrational, as my friend used to say. And the truth is, is that The crowd, the public opinion is becoming so loud and so demanding that they have no friggin' choice but to step up and change. I mean, they can't hand it to our vote in a democracy and then say, your vote doesn't count in a democracy.

1:09:27SpeakerSo although they try to play both sides of the sword, they're really incapable of doing it. And now that you've got guys like Bernie Sanders running around and making it such a popular point of his policy, it's difficult for them not to be greedy. It's like he just put gold rims on his car and everybody's screaming and pointing at him going, yeah, and everybody wants gold rims now even though gold rims were prohibited.

1:09:51SpeakerAnd I think that that's what he's doing with the conversation. He's bringing it to a point where, you know, even Obama did it stupidly enough with his fucking, you know, put your question on my change.org site and we'll get to it. And when we got to it, it was the highest voted... Question on his friggin' website, and what did he do? He laughed it off. I don't know what this means about the people on the internet.

1:10:14SpeakerIt means that we want fucking pot legal, asshole. We want you to stop locking us up for having flowers in our pocket, is what it means. Like, don't let there be any confusion here. We want marijuana prohibition to end. And I think they just want to ignore it. But at this point, with the states popping, it's inevitable. They're fucked. And they're going to have to jump ship, and they're going to have to suddenly in the little lifeboat point at the Titanic that they created and go, that was a dumb idea.

1:10:41SpeakerThere's no way around it.

1:10:42Etienne FontanBut we started that. We caused that. And I mean, I would say we started minorly with medical cannabis, which they laughed at us and mocked us, and it slowly became over half the country. The point now is we have Bailed with legalization here in California, but it spawned Colorado, Washington, Oregon. And Alaska and D.C. that it is, we have, and thank you everybody, we've forced them to deal with it.

1:11:09Etienne FontanBut we still have other states upcoming. We still have people gathering signatures in California. We've got potentially something happening in Ohio, in Florida, which are all key changes. If Ohio changes, so goes the Midwest. If Florida changes, so goes the South. If California changes, well, the West has already changed and California has already changed.

1:11:27SpeakerCalifornia is definitely going to change. I mean, Gavin Newstrom is Lieutenant Governor and he's working to legalize cannabis throughout the state. He wants to become Governor and he wants cannabis legal in the state. When you get that lust from the politicians, everything's changing because they're running around telling their people, There are people that, hey, this is going to bring money in. This is going to bring jobs in.

1:11:53SpeakerThis is going to lower the crime. This is going to cost the state less money. We won't have to pay to lock them up. We won't have to pay to police them. It will free up police resources, all of which they love.

1:12:06Ryan Dank AfIt's all about the dollars. You know in California they're getting lots and lots of lobby, putting pressure on everybody to... You know, to change things. I had a beer with the head lobbyist for the police organization in Sacramento, and he's a real charmer. Spent some time up here playing football in Canada, but he's just, you know, they're stuck on that message, and it's a small group that have a lot of incentive to try and keep things the way they are, but There's so much money now coming in and lobbying the politicians in the states that there's going to be...

1:12:46Etienne FontanMinority. We're forcing them to deal with us without any question. They have to deal with us on your side of the border and definitely on our side of the border.

1:12:55SpeakerThe economic wave of change is massive because they're looking at this financially now and the idea of leaving a whole demographic like us, as big as we are, tax-free, bothers the shit out of any conservative, you know? And we're not paying our fair due. And they're paying to chase us around and it's not working. That alone is going to crush their prohibition. I'm in favor of big business and big government being involved.

1:13:24SpeakerThey're involved in every normal commodity in the universe. They need to be involved with cannabis. To regulate it, to tax it, no problem. Let big business grow and sell it. As long as we can grow it at home and there can be boutique growers, who cares? You know what though, they are, don't, you know what, I want to say this though, you've got to qualify it, they are involved right now, it's just they're involved in the wrong element of it.

1:13:51SpeakerThey're involved in the policing, they're making money using our tax dollars to buy their little, you know, social tanks and their bullet everything and fucking military industrial complex fucking cops in every city now. All that shit came in because of the war on drugs and that's going to change too. I mean, Unfortunately, I think that we've got to have the politicians see that it's more beneficial to use our tax dollars beneficially than it is militaristically.

1:14:19BubblemanYeah, one by one we'll co-opt them all. Yeah, well the one thing we have on our side in all of this, remember, is that And I'll never forget my partner saying this to me years ago when we got our first hemp field growing. We could see it from the highway, but most people couldn't see it. As it got bigger, it became a little bit more of a sketch, and that's how those kids ended up finding it and whatnot.

1:14:44BubblemanHe said to me, you know, Mark, this is going to change the way people think. And I was kind of like, you mean like when they smoke it? Like no, not even smoking it, just seeing it. Just see it and know that it's not the monster they've been told that it is. And it just becomes a thing in their peripheral vision as they go to work. It just, it becomes more normal and that's what we have on side.

1:15:07BubblemanYou don't even have to smoke this plant. Thank you for joining us.

1:15:31Etienne FontanChange in our own way, but we need every one of you thousand or so just watching us to actually find a way to get active, to educate, because it still happens one-on-one. That's why when we went around the country 20-plus years ago, we saw it firsthand. If you could plant seeds in people's minds, you can't change people's thinking, okay, but you can at least plant seeds so that hopefully later on those ideas will sprout, so...

1:15:57Etienne FontanThere's so much education that you can be doing in your smoking circles, among your friends. Get out there, get active, register people to vote in those states currently where things are happening. Right now you can contact your UN representative and tell them exactly the change that you want to see happen, and that's coming up on April 20th there at the UN. So you still have a voice.

1:16:19Etienne FontanYou can affect change in your own right. You're not just sitting there, you know, quietly watching us all You know, just talk to each other. You can actively affect change today, people. That's all I'm saying.

1:16:32BubblemanI think also the most important way to do it, Mark Scaldone's mentioned, it's like if you have an interest in cannabis and you have an interest in Science, chemistry, or botany, agriculture, all these different things can be studied. You can go focus and learn a whole new level of knowledge to bring into your cannabis experience. And I think because of Prohibition and how they separated us all out from their mainstream experience, and we're on the outside been fighting for cannabis.

1:17:03BubblemanThank you for joining us.

1:17:30BubblemanIt's like I'm kind of with Sam. It's like these are the people we're trying to get on side. Don't be so pissed off when they start to come over.

1:17:38SpeakerEven further than that, we need to reach the people who aren't with us. The converted don't even matter. I mean, they're our friends, but the converted, that's not who we want to change.

1:17:54Ryan Dank AfI think everybody should show someone that you know that doesn't know what cannabis is or doesn't know how it works. Just show them the plant. Show them some flowers. Take a few buds over and show them, look, it's just plant material. It's not anything dangerous or foreign that's going to...

1:18:09BubblemanNow that's change right there, Chimera. One person at a time, normalizing and sharing and showing. You don't have to puff it. These are all the things you can do.

1:18:21SpeakerThat's really what we were trying to do at the union was to kind of get the word out because you need to build a bridge to mainstream society and I was sick of just going through rallies and talking to people that already agreed with me. Putting it in front of people that never heard of it before and didn't know what hemp was. And, you know, people don't know this, but we did three beginnings to the movie.

1:18:42SpeakerWhen I first got it, I didn't like it, and I had the shitty displeasure of having to tell my friend I didn't like it. And he was cool about it, and he changed it and sent me the second one, and I didn't like it. And I was honest about that. And then they changed it into the third beginning, which was the more powerful history of hemp on the little boob tube TV and broke it on down before the credits rolled.

1:19:04SpeakerAnd I was so blown away because I was just like, you could almost drop the mic and walk away before the credits even start to roll because you've gotten so much history that people had no clue of. Hemp for victory, using it for sales, using it for ropes, the history it has with humanity. It's so lost on so many of how important it was not so long ago.

1:19:27BubblemanAnd not even only that, Todd, but the history, we've made 20 more, 25 more years of history since then. And so you see like the emperor and the impact it had and how it was directly responsible for the hemp movement in Canada over 20 years ago today. I mean, that's all pretty incredible shit.

1:19:46Etienne FontanI mean, would we all know each other practically without Jack's book?

1:19:52BubblemanHard to say. I still have one of the one in hundred all hemp emperors signed by Jack.

1:19:57Etienne FontanI do too. He gave me for my wedding present.

1:20:00BubblemanYeah, dude.

1:20:00Ryan Dank AfI'm going to venture that Sam has one of those in his collection also.

1:20:05BubblemanYeah, I got one. Todd's going to get his.

1:20:09Etienne FontanDana, you're still, your mic is still, you sound very hollow and very compared to your... I don't know what to do.

1:20:16SpeakerMy computer's broken.

1:20:17BubblemanOne second. Let me see if I can turn your mic up like I did last time. Now talk, Dana.

1:20:22Etienne FontanDana, try again now. He stepped away from his mic.

1:20:25BubblemanYeah, I can turn the mics up and down so everyone comes in at a halfway point. So I turned his up.

1:20:32Dana LarsonIs it still bad? Hello, hello?

1:20:34BubblemanIt's a little bit better.

1:20:35Dana LarsonI was just going to plug my history book and saying if you're interested in cannabis history, go to Cannabis.ca and buy my book.

1:20:43BubblemanBuy his book. It's a good book. I have it. I even have a page in there with my hemp buddies.

1:20:50Dana LarsonWell, what you were saying about the book.

1:20:53BubblemanGo ahead, buddy.

1:20:53SpeakerGo ahead, Danny.

1:20:54Dana LarsonAnd what do you think about the modern history? A good chunk of my book covers everything post-career in the last 20, 30 years. It's awesome.

1:21:04BubblemanIt is that history that wasn't covered back then, you know, because it hadn't happened yet.

1:21:10Ryan Dank AfI noticed they mentioned you, Dana, on the RCMP report of the incidents on the Parliament Hill this year.

1:21:20Dana LarsonYes, that was fun.

1:21:21Ryan Dank AfYeah.

1:21:23Dana LarsonAlthough I didn't actually send any pot to Parliament. I sent it all to the constituency offices. Because I thought it would get confiscated if I sent it to Parliament. But there you go. That's the beautiful book right there.

1:21:33BubblemanThere you go. Dana's book. Yep. There's the hemp one too.

1:21:44SpeakerAnd the marijuana conspiracy.

1:21:48BubblemanI like that he didn't use the word cannabis there because truly it was a marijuana conspiracy. Yeah.

1:21:55Etienne FontanYeah. The word does not exist in 1909. It's not anywhere. It's not anywhere.

1:22:05BubblemanWaso Idus wants to ask Skunkman, would he describe taxonomy the same as Clark and Merlin Hillig?

1:22:17SpeakerUh... Yes, pretty much. I funded the work that Dr. Hillig did, and I'm in total agreement with Clark and Merlin. So, yeah, basically I believe that all drug varieties are indicas. Sativas are hemp varieties, and there's wide-leaf drug varieties, narrow-leaf drug varieties, and... Also wide leaf and narrow leaf hemp varieties.

1:22:52Ryan Dank AfYep. Perfect. Good answer. I think taxonomy is a bunch of crap. It's a way of wanting to classify everything and the way that we currently do it with wide leaf drug and narrow leaf drug I think is kind of ridiculous.

1:23:09SpeakerWell, if we had the cannabinoid profile, the terpene profile, and how many weeks flowering and approximate maturation date at the known latitude, then it would be really valuable.

1:23:23Ryan Dank AfYeah, we did some, well, even some of those things, I don't think they'd be involved in classifying by variety. Like, they don't classify wheat by, you know, what matures in what area. I mean, you do, you do, you can provide that information, but it's not... Yeah, I think when that comes down to terpenes and cannabinoids, as far as I'm concerned, so there's some work that's ongoing that I was involved with that will be published soon, and, you know, I think looking at a different way to classify varieties based on their chemical constituents or what the actual consumer gets in the end is really the most valuable.

1:23:58BubblemanMost valuable. Definitely the future, for sure.

1:24:03Dana LarsonWhen Ernie Small did his research in the early 1970s, In Ottawa, he wrote the book about the species problem in cannabis, and he said that he found that many varieties used for seed and agricultural production were high in THC, and that there wasn't any clear demarcation between varieties used for industrial use and those used for medical use. And so that would seem to indicate that there's not really a fine distinction there between some of these different varieties.

1:24:34SpeakerWell, I read the same book and I didn't get that out of it, so I don't know what to say.

1:24:39Ryan Dank AfYeah, Ernest Small also didn't grow any Afghanica varieties, so there was no true Indicas in his whole study. But it was an early start and it was an interesting one. Ernest is probably the Canadian that's added more knowledge about cannabis taxonomy to the world than I think anybody.

1:24:59SpeakerI would agree with that.

1:25:02Ryan Dank AfHere's the book that Dan is talking about.

1:25:04SpeakerAnd it's actually two volumes. Two volumes, yeah. Science and Semantics.

1:25:16BubblemanWell, I definitely look forward to the future of knowing exactly the chemical constituents of the plant, the terpenes, the phytocannabinoids, the ratios of each to each, and maybe even a deeper knowledge of looking at them that we don't quite understand yet as we're really only starting to focus on in the last couple of decades or whatever, maybe less, I don't know.

1:25:38SpeakerKamara, I got a question for you. Like, when it comes to, let's say, that chemical composition definition for the consumer, where would you draw the line? Like, would you be defining Bubba Kush as the chemical constituents, you know, at a common harvest date? And say, like, what you find here is what you should expect in my extract? Because I know, like, with multiple extraction methods... Thank you for watching.

1:26:12SpeakerDoes it get referenced to a base point of the plant, or does it become its own definition? Because each of those extraction methods completely has the potential to even just change the percentage of THC versus the math you'd expect. Nobody can say they got it all.

1:26:28Ryan Dank AfWell, you've actually asked two questions here. So one of them you're talking about the product, right? And I'm going to go back to my same thing that I keep harping on for the last bunch of weeks. Every product should be tested. That way the consumer knows what's in the product. It doesn't matter what was in the flower if the extract doesn't represent what's in the flower. The patient should know or the consumer should know what's in the product that they're consuming.

1:26:53Ryan Dank AfThe other thing you touched on was at a specific harvest time, so you're essentially referencing the plant. And at that point in time, you know, it doesn't, people don't realize that they don't, it doesn't change that much in the plant. This whole, oh, if you let it go another two weeks later, it increases the CBN. That's total bullshit. It's not based in any reality. So it's just a dogma that we've learned over the past, you know, 30 years.

1:27:19Ryan Dank AfBut a finger point.

1:27:21TonyCan I ask you something? Yeah.

1:27:23SpeakerSo you do think that the peak point of THC that's been put out for a long time is total shit? Yeah, me too. So 20 years ago, I wanted to actually test daily and see what the carbolic acid profile would be because it must be like a little chemistry. It must go up and up and up. Would the ramp, would it be, do you picture the ramp being like a BMX bike or a dirt bike rider would use?

1:27:44SpeakerIt goes slopes up? It doesn't go like a hill and then slope up and then hit down, does it?

1:27:51Ryan Dank AfYou can look at it, there's either two to like 20 plus ramps. I mean, if you consider even just cannabs and terps, then they don't necessarily follow up identically all the way, right? So it is about hitting that specific time where you have the optimal cannabinoid production, but you also want to balance that with terpene productions.

1:28:12SpeakerAnd I can ask Dave this too. At what point, if you let it go to revegetation or late, late stage, at that point do you start seeing a total drop off in cannabinoids or do you just lose your terpenes due to evaporation or environmental situations?

1:28:28Ryan Dank AfYeah, like the biosynthetic machinery kind of stops, right? Because all that terpene production of the monoterpene and the capidate stalk glands are a function of flowering. So as you shift back into the vegetative state, that program that says to the plant, produce all these secondary metabolites, ramps down, right?

1:28:50SpeakerBut we could call that peak then, because at some point if the chemistry lab shuts down, the lights go off, so to speak, hypothetically, then there is going to be a decrease in this, because over time, Isn't time just, you know, environmental conditions, oxidization, what have you, going to take a toll on the chemicals that that little hypothetical lab, the flower, that it is produced?

1:29:15SpeakerThe THC pretty much increases to the end, but the terpenes will change and will decrease towards the end. So if you prefer higher terpene or a particular monoterpene ratio, then you might prefer it a couple weeks earlier, like Rob used to prefer from what I like. But most THC is at the end of maturation. But it's not necessarily the most terpenes. So letting it go to late stage is very advantageous.

1:29:49SpeakerIf now what we are trying to do is harvest the oils and the cannabinoids.

1:29:54Ryan Dank AfWell, it depends on what you mean late stage. I mean, it's going to be different for every cultivar, right?

1:29:59SpeakerYeah, I'll tell you what I mean by late stage. Right before rejuvenation and after all your pistols have gone away because you go from white to red to everything's withered up and everything's swollen up to you'll re-veg if you keep going. So late stage is this area. How does it re-veg under how many hours of light? Depends on the genetic, in my opinion. I mean, but if you leave them going and going and going and going, like, they do weird shit.

1:30:25SpeakerThey come up with the little stems and start making single florets or whatever you call them. Yeah, but if they're under short quota periods, I don't see plants regenerate and go back to edge. They finish flowering and they're done.

1:30:40Ryan Dank AfNo, I think Todd was talking about if you artificially manipulated the life cycle.

1:30:45SpeakerI've seen people pull them out and try to re-veg flowers and then re-veg in funky ways. And I've left plants in for a hell of a long time and they've done weird shit after they've gone through like, they go through like a rejuvenation almost. Like they give up flowering. And they start making single leaflet leaves on little thin stalks that come out of the flower. I'd definitely see that if I increased the photo period, the number of hours of life.

1:31:10SpeakerBut without doing it, my plants usually die. Or they come to an end, see incense. But yeah, they're finished. So does cannabis have a natural trigger that will, that like, I read before that the Catholic Church had sexed the plants differently, even though the female had the seeds and the male released the pollen, they called it the opposite because they didn't like that the males died off early and were the weaker of the two.

1:31:39SpeakerWhat I read, you know, but, you know, like, is there something in the hemp plant that triggers the male to die before the female, so the female, you know, like a progression of species? Well, what happens is the male flowers before the female is done flowering. So, yes, the male dies first. Absolutely correct. When it flowers, a male will die. So the females program the same way?

1:32:08SpeakerThe only thing is it will die. If the tender starts to grow to a period, it will flower and be finished. Correct. Dead.

1:32:17Ryan Dank AfYeah, I don't know. I wouldn't call it the same thing because the females can get pollinated by multiple males and you do see any extra flower that's mature to set seed is just another opportunity to leave offspring for the next generation. So evolution has actually selected four plants that will set more seed.

1:32:35SpeakerYeah, and I was really just referring to That it's not going to re-bedge on its own under short quota period.

1:32:42Ryan Dank AfThat's all I meant. Because there's no point, you know, again, evolution hasn't selected for that trade. Once it's shed the pollen, there is no benefit to having the male alive any longer. Right? It's done its job. That is the job of the plant in life.

1:32:57SpeakerI thought in a way they got out of the way. They stopped taking up nutrients and they basically left it so that the females could flourish.

1:33:05Ryan Dank AfAgain, it's also traits that are selected for by evolution, right? They're in competition. Males and females are in competition. But the only thing, once the males have spunked up and they've dropped their pollen, there is no... They don't do anything for the female plants. So them, you know, hanging around and taking water that they're in competition with the females for and taking nutrients is actually selective against survival for the species.

1:33:32SpeakerNo, that's what I meant. So they're programd to die. They're programd to do their trick and then step off. And I think that's really cool. Nature is, you know, so hardcore. But now that I'm thinking that if the males have that, wouldn't the females have that same trigger so they would release the seeds and this would continue in a natural progression?

1:33:50Ryan Dank AfBut they don't.

1:33:51SpeakerYes, they do. Actually, they do. What you find is if you can find wild enough cannabis, you just touch a seeded plant and the seeds quite literally spring out from the, The buds, I mean, they're completely not contained. Just wind or rain or anybody touching the plant will make them quite literally pop out. They're also 800 to 1 gram.

1:34:22Ryan Dank AfYeah, that's called shattering. It's a characteristic of wild traits, and we've bred against that in a whole bunch of crops. Exactly. The point that I was making is that if the female does receive long photoperiod, I've got some plants that are re-vegging right now. They'll re-veg. You know, they will. They'll come back.

1:34:40SpeakerAbsolutely correct. Oh yeah, I know that to be true.

1:34:44Ryan Dank AfBut that's with us kind of. I know you know that to be true. I was just saying that that's evidence for, evidence against that topic, the discussion we were having with males. They're not programd to die like the males are. The females will continue to live as long as they can, you know.

1:35:00SpeakerWell, that's not 100% true. You know that very early, very quick, more wide leaf varieties have much more trouble regenerating once they've flowered than a sativa. A sativa haze, even after it's flowered for eight weeks, I can regenerate easy. Whereas a very early wide leaf drug variety that's flowered for eight weeks, sometimes no matter what I do, I can't bring them back.

1:35:28Etienne FontanI had one like that, and it took almost two months of vegging to bring her back out.

1:35:33SpeakerI've had several that I could not bring back, and I've got a pretty good touch.

1:35:39Ryan Dank AfYeah, but again, those are, you know, the result of evolution in a particular direction in that environment. So, anything that has, any trait that exists today in any species exists because it had value and it's been selected for. That's one of the big tenets of biology and evolution is that traits that don't confer advantage, they go along by the wayside.

1:35:59SpeakerIn general, I certainly agree with you. I just think that cannabis doesn't have a situation where the photoperiod is jerked around like we're talking about. I mean, man does it for sure, but it doesn't really happen in nature.

1:36:19Ryan Dank AfYeah, I don't know. I think the plasticity shows that it does. And, you know, these long, these, like you're saying, these equatorial varieties that are closer to the equator, they don't have, they don't winter. They don't, you know, they don't winter. It's not lack of light that kills cannabis, it's winter.

1:36:35SpeakerThat's true. It's, it's, uh... Well, no, it's a combination with really short photoperiod.

1:36:42Etienne FontanIs photoperiod triggering, though? Isn't that one of the truer things, such as with fall triggers, which causes the ripening on the outside, but it doesn't really wane around the equator?

1:36:54SpeakerWell, but it never gets long there, either. I mean, on the equator, the longest day is 13 hours. Right. So it's strain specific. I mean, we're kind of generalizing when we're talking about what cannabis does because what cannabis does is very varied depending on where it originates from on this planet.

1:37:13Ryan Dank AfYeah, or where it's adapted to in the past. And that's one of the incredible things about cannabis is it's an out-crosser.

1:37:18Etienne FontanAnd how bastardized the actual variety is as well.

1:37:23SpeakerThat's a combination of nature and the hand of man.

1:37:31SpeakerCamer, just because you mentioned that original point about growers taking an extra two weeks and believing they've manifested a ton of CBN that turns it into a couch lock screen. But I was listening and I was like, well, I know some people that take it that extra three weeks and it's at 72 Fahrenheit and they're going for cold preservation. Preservative kind of terms, and it's almost like a theoretical winter kill.

1:37:54SpeakerAnd then another guy told me, well, I've got my best shit at 94F, and I'm like, how the fuck can you preserve terpenes at 94F, even though you may be able to drive cannabinoids to their maximum, and that's getting people high. When you say, like, because that last two weeks, everybody's doing almost mysticism of, you know, to get their cannabis to do something, what would be, you could say, a correct Thank you for watching.

1:38:46Ryan Dank AfYeah, well again, more CBN doesn't come in the last two weeks. That's a myth. CBN, you almost never see it in plants. This knowledge is really going to come about by people testing. And people are going to decide that this is, you know, it's like I said, it's an intersection of cannabinoids and terpenes, but not only that, it's an intersection of weight. Producers are interested in weight.

1:39:08Ryan Dank AfThey don't really give a shit about the rest of The stuff, I mean, it's their crawler interest, but to them, weight is money, and that's especially true on the black market. So as you see more testing come into place and people have more knowledge about what actually, you know, what ripeness means, it's a decision that everybody's going to make. You know, for example, bedrocan, they plant on a Tuesday and they harvest on a Thursday, and it never changes.

1:39:33Ryan Dank AfIt never changes. The plant is in the flowering, Environment for, you know, eight weeks or seven and some portion weeks and that's all it gets. It doesn't matter if you as a grower would walk in and say, they're not quite done. You know, in order to maintain standardized conditions or standardized results, you have to maintain standardized inputs and that's not only water and nutrients but time in the flowering chamber.

1:39:55SpeakerYeah, but if they're monocropping, that's not a big deal.

1:40:00Ryan Dank AfNo, but the point is that they don't care. Like, you know what it's like. To a degree.

1:40:06SpeakerYou know, the way they're growing is so consistent that, like, whatever, OG Kush has been a 68-day plant for me for fucking over 10 years plus, and it's just what it is. And I've had hazes next to it that I won't pull at 68, but I'll pull at 77. And it's just, it is what it is. And you know what, I could put them on clocks and do this.

1:40:26SpeakerIt's not me. It's just paying attention to your genetic long enough that you know what to do with it. That's what we taught at Positronics. You've got to learn the plant so you can know your pre-grow, know its needs, know if it's going to veg during flower, when it's going to finish. But once you know that, once you've watched that and you've learned it two or three times, it's seen a cycle, it's not really changing.

1:40:50SpeakerThe good thing, it doesn't change because they don't go in the room during that eight weeks.

1:40:56Ryan Dank AfListen, most commercial producers, Todd, aren't going to do it that way. And I totally hear what you're saying. And as a home grower, a self-cultivator, a small-scale cultivator, you can do all those things. But when it becomes produced by large companies with large crops, it's a trade-off. They don't necessarily care about terpene maximization or cannabinoid maximization. It's about churning over that square footage to get crop after crop after crop in in a year.

1:41:26SpeakerI think so, but you know where I think it's going to change though is that now people are starting to think of it as a chocolate factory instead of a prohibition get in, fill the room, get out as quickly as possible. And now you could put 16 lights in a row and start once a week putting in and then 16 weeks later or whenever you feel like finishing it.

1:41:46SpeakerThen it finishes and you come back and from that point on you're on a weekly schedule if you can keep your room clean and your cuttings consistent. And now that we don't have the threat of the cops or the prohibition and this is illegal and we just got to worry about not burning the place down or being a nuisance to our neighbors, it changes the way we can grow cannabis and it doesn't matter how long something takes anymore.

1:42:09SpeakerI mean, hop in a car and put it on a schedule.

1:42:13Ryan Dank AfI'm going to say the same thing. We're a personal producer and this is why we've got to keep personal production. You know, and from a personal producer, I agree with all those things that you're saying, but, you know, I've worked with numerous legal cannabis companies and in their production settings and whether the variety is 55 days or 65 days or 75 days, they get eight weeks and then they're done.

1:42:34Ryan Dank AfRight? And they do that because they have to cycle through rooms and break down rooms and all that stuff and it takes

1:42:40SpeakerYeah, but that's all I mean. They may be going eight weeks, but it doesn't matter. They can set it at whatever interval was right for them.

1:42:49Ryan Dank AfRight, but you don't do that when you're producing, you know. People produce to fill their market, so you don't just produce like... Only OG Kush.

1:42:59SpeakerDon't you think though that this is changing? They're like, OG was not a product of producing it because it was fun. It's really a low yielder that's hard to grow. It's leggy. It's finicky on rooting. It's not a lot of fun, which is part of why it was so expensive. But on the flip of that, I think that people are starting to grow for the head of it rather than the look of it because now more of this stuff is making its way into concentrates and into pre-rolls and edibles and it's not necessarily all big, huge, indica-looking buds that they can present and sell easy over the counter or bag-to-bag, so to speak.

1:43:33SpeakerNow they're looking for the nuances, the cannabinoid profiles, the scents. And I think this is where it's changing and people are now open to growing different length varieties that they, you know, weren't before because now they need a little edge in the competitiveness of the products that are out there.

1:43:51Ryan Dank AfI agree with you and to an extent they do, but go up to Mendo, I mean you've probably traveled all over Mendo, I have, and Humboldt and all those areas and they've got the head stash patch and then they've got a shit load of Blue Dream.

1:44:02SpeakerWell, I'm not mad at them. A lot of them, look, a lot of them are blasting the stuff and turning it into oils, and now that people want cannabinoids for medicine, there's a huge market for just the chemicals of it getting to them, and now that they have methods where they can actually blast the shit and get non-moldy, clean cannabinoids and terpenes out of their crops with almost 100% use of what they actually took down.

1:44:27SpeakerIt's changing the scope of how they grow and I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing because there's a huge movement towards people using oils and pens and shatters and butters and all this stuff and for medically it's never been better. I mean cannabis and joints was nice but being able to get dabs really helps my neck on another level. So I'm really glad that this is happening.

1:44:52SpeakerI just wanted to say for you because I do know what you're trying to illustrate to the group in trying to teach people to separate Home, rural level, agrarian mindsets towards production versus industrial agriculture. Because one of my past careers is trying to convert industrial agriculturalists to turn a machine back into 100 workers versus, well, I just want to combine it and get them to consider value-added production on the farm rather than just, I just want to sell it all to a corn mill that's going to turn it into, I don't give a fuck.

1:45:25SpeakerNow, I hear you when you're basically saying, there's a grower, he's got 100 acres, and I'm trying to tell him, if you do all of these things, I can get you a million dollars worth more terpenes, and he's saying, yeah, but for $500,000 less, I'll just make twice as much THCA and fuck off. And sell it to company X that doesn't give two shits about terpenes. And the real world where most of the anti-inflammatories of CBD are going to come in a pill, there is a reality to production that isn't really respectful of the whole plant because one aspect of the plant can be their entire market.

1:46:03SpeakerYou know, Horatio, first I want to say that I love that you're more cynical than me. But, too, you know, I think that there's a lot of caring in this all the way down to the end user. And I think what's really happening isn't so much that it's falling into the hands of somebody who doesn't care. I think everybody cares. It's just some people aren't capable of growing, you know, 100 pounds of pot in loops behind their house comfortably, and they have no access to this stuff.

1:46:29SpeakerSo I'm glad those guys up in, you know, the Trinity, you know, Humble area are doing this shit. And... I mean, look, I'm glad more pot's getting out there. There's no question about it. I think it's, you know, you watch the videos of parents helping their kids and shit. It's heartwarming. I think that the more we can get out there, the better it is for everybody. The more the prices drop, the better it is for everybody.

1:46:49SpeakerI mean, I think that producers have to let go of their mindset of prohibition era profiteering if they're really going to make a, Thank you for watching.

1:47:23SpeakerThat it's just a good thing in all honesty. The more cannabis that gets to society, the more it's going to help people like little kids and old people and everyone in between. And that I think is a great thing. There's no two ways around it.

1:47:39Ryan Dank AfYeah, I don't know. I don't think I'm a pessimist. I don't think I'm a realizt. Like if you go up to Mendo and you see how many people are growing Blue Dream, I think that proves my point. You know, the producer plants are what people produce. Sure, there is a lot of OGs and cookies and all these other low-yielding varieties that people are producing, but man, that's the 90% of the week.

1:47:59SpeakerThat's not like a stick. You know, look, in the 80s, dude, people were growing skunk one, and then in the 90s, people were growing big butt. And you know what? The truth is there's been high-yielding plants in this industry for quite a while. I mean, in Holland, really up to the... When I got there in 94, 95... You couldn't find anything but skunk, sweet skunk on the menus because they wouldn't pay very much over five or six guilders a gram per kilo of cannabis because they thought the market didn't want different or higher quality or longer flowering cannabis.

1:48:32SpeakerAnd to his credit, Arian was one of the first guys way the fuck back in 94 that started buying AK-47 from Serious Seeds for like eight guilders a gram, which was outlandish, and seeing if people would buy it. He was so pessimistic. And that started the whole like kind of, I would say, Boutique cannabis boom in Amsterdam where people started seeking out the hazes, Neville's Haze, NL5 Haze, Cali Mist became popular and then it was like an epiphany to people because for a long time it was skunk, skunk, skunk.

1:49:06SpeakerAnd that wasn't because of the consumers, it was because of the producers looking for the fastest, heaviest plant.

1:49:12Ryan Dank AfThat's all I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying today. Today it's Blue Dream, it's not skunk. I don't know.

1:49:20SpeakerThere's a lot of other pot out there.

1:49:22Ryan Dank AfThis will all change, but this is people securing their dollars. It's an investment in both time and money to grow cannabis, and you want to make sure that you're going to get a yield out of it, right? So that's why people grow Blue Dream. But Blue Dream is not a haze. I don't know how people call it a haze. It's a myrcene dominant and pinene plant that's pretty muddy high.

1:49:42Ryan Dank AfIt's a generic flavor, but it produces a shitload.

1:49:45Dana LarsonNo, I agree.

1:49:48Ryan Dank AfI also agree with what Horatio was saying. I think he nailed it right on the head. When it comes down to you're producing for THC acid, and that's all you're producing in the plant so that you can extract it and then mix it with whatever terpenes you want, you want to produce a variety that's not going to mold, that's not going to get insects, and that produces a shitload.

1:50:05Ryan Dank AfBecause at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you're taking the THC acid of OG, which yields a quarter as much as Blue Dream, you know, or Blue Dream, so... You know, there's a lot more to fine cannabis than myrcene and THC acid, I think.

1:50:22SpeakerThere's a lot more to fine cannabis than yield also.

1:50:26Ryan Dank AfTrue, but again, we're talking about agriculture. You know, why don't they produce all these like really fine, you know, how much Wagyu beef is there in the world?

1:50:37SpeakerA lot at my butcher.

1:50:39Ryan Dank AfYeah, but it's not what's on society. I mean, we can all say, well, I only smoke OG or I only eat Wagyu beef, but, man, that's not a really inaccurate conversation about what weed is being grown in the world.

1:50:52SpeakerNo, I understand about Blue Dream, absolutely.

1:50:58Ryan Dank AfEvery dispenser in California has Blue Dream on the menu.

1:51:01SpeakerAnd you know what, though? It's like a Budweiser, and I don't drink beer, but I get it. And you know what? So... I just, I don't think that it's, there's so much room, there's so many other things on the menu, I mean, I don't really, I'm not going to, I don't begrudge these people growing high yield plants. I agree with you, Todd. Let's face it, most of the people when it's truly, truly a legalized, normalized business will buy their chips, their ice cream, their buds, their beer at the 7-Eleven.

1:51:37SpeakerI mean, that's America. Don't you think post-legalization that there'll be a move to a consumer-based, you know, look, Jack Daniels, it's going to be like people will get the taste for quality or the taste of consistency and they'll go for that product. It'll be like whatever, Coca-Cola or any other thing that catches on and has good marketing and people will find that it works for them and if they can get it consistently, they'll probably do it because, you know, humans are, you know, creatures of habit.

1:52:09Etienne FontanRight, but these canvases become creatures of prohibition because these people have had to grow these six to eight week varietals because they can't grow the 14 plus week varietals. So we've... And it certainly caused the change of the genetic just because of people's need to make rent and pay the bills. I mean, that's the reality of these six- to eight-week cultivars that have become these complete bastardizations that we've gotten completely away from the natural way of growing it or how it naturally grew in the field itself except for hemp that we're replaying around with.

1:52:44Etienne FontanSo, I mean, the flowers themselves are our own manipulations unless I'm crazy.

1:52:49SpeakerIt's about to change. It's all going to change.

1:52:53Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, as greenhouses come online, you can plant your hazes, and you can plant your blue dreams and OGs, and that way you harvest in September and October and November and December, right? And you don't have to do anything. You're not changing the... You're not flipping at different times. It's like the season helps you out with your harvest, and... Thank you for watching.

1:53:32SpeakerWhen Prohibition ends, that you're going to see a shift from Mendocino and Trinity to like San Diego, 68 and Sunny, you know. If law wasn't the problem, we wouldn't be up there in those moist, foggy hills growing pot.

1:53:49Ryan Dank AfI agree with you, Matt.

1:53:52SpeakerAnd the varietals that you could grow in eastern San Diego would be holy shit different. Absolutely true, Todd. It's been happening for years on a small scale. I guess it goes back to normalization. Like I look at them saying like, oh, everyone will be able to grow at home. And I'm like, oh, man, they'll make city ordinances that no front yard, no backyard by the fence, 15 feet.

1:54:17SpeakerIt will become municipal oppression all over again. I happen to live in a municipality that's like, oh, you want to become an LP? I don't care if you want to convert it to your house. Just tick the box that says you're in a zone for marijuana. And I have a neighbor that's like, I don't care if people grow it, just don't cause problems. So I'm like, wow, I wonder if I could get to the point where the best sun position in my yard happens to be on my front, in my front where everyone could see it.

1:54:45SpeakerWould, like, there are people that would join together and be like, we don't want any goddamn smell because we're too rich and we hate the smell. Like, it's only normalization that will get them to go, that guy's growing his own medicine, that smells good, versus that guy's growing his own income, I hate I have to go to work, and he doesn't. Like, it really...

1:55:04Ryan Dank AfI don't think people are really offended by the smell. I think these are fucking prohibitionists that are trying to find a way to get their way, you know?

1:55:10SpeakerNo, dude, like, I see situations where I'm like, what the fuck is that smell? I'm going into a store, and they're like, yeah, there's a group upstairs, they have a license, there's nothing we can do. I'm like, that's not fair to your pizza business to be gassed out by marijuana just because they have a license in a slot next door.

1:55:27Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd all the growers in Colorado are getting slapped with stink tickets. A stink ticket is a big hassle. It brings you into the court system. And even legal growers who are legally able to grow in Colorado are getting slammed with these stink tickets because a neighbor's complaint that their grow is making their neighborhood smell.

1:55:51BubblemanThat's such fucking bullshit. When you grow up next to a rendering plant, the worst fucking smell on the planet. The worst. It's like there's no worse smell than that. They're rendering animal fat.

1:56:05SpeakerThey tend to zone poor people by that bullshit. Like, I looked at that. Like, I'm like, oh my god, I'm crossing this bridge. Is this where we're housing all our human shit? By the bridge? Oh, I can see houses. But in a rich neighborhood, they wouldn't have that. That rendering plant would be done. They would gain up.

1:56:22BubblemanCheck this out, Horatio. Here's a good one. Lionsgate Bridge. Park Royal Mall. It sits on native land. The natives own all that land. They have a trailer park. It's not a trailer park. It's like an RV park. People come and park these big brand new RVs and hang out under the bridge. It's weird. But the septic from all of that all summer long smells so fucking bad.

1:56:50BubblemanAnyone that drives over that bridge towards the bottom of West Vancouver coming into one of the wealthiest neighborhoods... In friggin' B.C. And it's just the smell of human feces for like one minute in the car. Gotta roll the windows up.

1:57:05SpeakerI get it. So like are you guys fighting it though? Like you want to fight it?

1:57:09BubblemanNo, there is no fighting it because the natives own that land.

1:57:13Ryan Dank AfThat's a loophole. That's the richest native reserve in all of Canada.

1:57:19BubblemanYes, absolutely, because all the money they get from Park Road.

1:57:22SpeakerI know when I park my RV up there, I'm definitely going to park next to that septic tank.

1:57:30BubblemanYour fucking humor is so twisted, Sam.

1:57:32SpeakerYou're going to put plants down and try to get that septic nutrient, aren't you? That's right. They can feed aerially.

1:57:40Etienne FontanJesus Christ.

1:57:42BubblemanAnyway, it's a weird thing, you know, once again, it's like the, it's like, oh, I got a thing from a dispensary, let's close all the dispensaries. It's like, oh, I was fishing for booze. Well, don't do that again, Jimmy. It's like the same thing with the smell. There's terrible smells out there, and as strong as cannabis is, and it's true, it's not fair to like a pizza business or a restaurant, and there's definitely got to be some sort of form of ordinance, but just like they do for, I'm sure, rendering plants and other nasty smells, but Doesn't mean you don't smell them when you're going around in the city.

1:58:12BubblemanIt doesn't mean you don't cross those areas. They're out there.

1:58:16SpeakerI can tell you a funny story. I had employees in my greenhouse, and they were telling me that when they were harvesting my crop of high THC cannabis, that it was affecting them, and they were feeling different. So I got some THC tests. I bought a handful of them and tested them. That's what they wanted me to do. And I tested them and they came up all negative.

1:58:51SpeakerAnd I tested myself and I came up off the charts. So the test was working fine, but they were not being exposed. It was strictly from the smells of the terpenes. And they were not getting high on THC. Because when we tested them later when they were making hashish, they did test positive from breathing the dust. Yeah, have you ever heard of off-head?

1:59:18Ryan Dank AfIf you've ever heard of off-head... That comes from hop harvesters that would be breathing in the hop terps as they were pulling down the hops all day and getting these huge, huge doses of myrcene. And it's pretty common for hop harvesters to get dizzy and feel an effect. And there's really no cannabinoids in that, so...

1:59:35SpeakerWell, I laughed and I told her I didn't believe her. But she was serious. It happened to her. She said every time she harvested. And so we tested her and she came out negative for THC. But yeah, the terpenes, of course, we know. How strong and effective they can be.

2:00:15SpeakerThey were quite amazing. It was like right away I could feel it just like eliminate that pain that I was going through and then it came back like seconds later. But it was definitely something that modulated my pain and I was able to tell that right away from just having terpenes and just coming out of surgery. It was awesome to learn that, to be able to experience that.

2:00:35SpeakerYou're not the only one, John. Other people have been reporting me. A medical benefit with different medical indications from terpenes alone without any cannabinoids connected to it, which really shocked and surprised me at first. I mean, aromatherapy's been around, so I guess that's the way the universe works. Sam, I was going to say, with you denying the aromatherapy benefits of your employees and staff, that's abuse. You were dosing them with a soup of medicine that you weren't taking responsibility for.

2:01:11SpeakerYou could actually be like, I see how that's like, holy, it's like the hop harvesters, like they could get together and eventually be like, pick a different variety because our lungs are getting fucked up from this mercy over time.

2:01:25SpeakerWell, we were a research company, so we grew different varieties constantly. There was no constant except for that unpredictability because everything was different.

2:01:38Ryan Dank AfHow about you get workers that want to be exposed to cannabis? The ones that are going to complain can go elsewhere.

2:01:44SpeakerI preferred non-smoking workers. They were easier to use in a responsible way.

2:01:56BubblemanShanti Baba said the exact same thing when I asked him, how the hell does your greenhouse look that fucking good? And he was like, I don't hire smokers. Like, literally, that's what he said. I was like, who the fuck are these people? He's like, they're rose gardeners. They've never grown pot. This is their first time growing pot. It was like an acre under glass of six to seven foot tall, fully bloomed out, calli-o plants that were like Christmas trees.

2:02:25BubblemanIt brought a tear to my eye, honestly. It was such a fucking beautiful grow.

2:02:29Ryan Dank AfYeah. Well, he used to just pay farmers.

2:02:31BubblemanHe'd just go and hire the tomato growers. He was paying these rose farmers the time that I went. This was like 2008. One, maybe, in Bellinzona.

2:02:42SpeakerIs that a bad thing? Because I agree 100%. It's kind of why people are like, well, why aren't you in Enterprise? I'm like, I'm not into hiring people just because they can keep their mouth shut. I need qualified professionals or I'll kill myself with the people that I have around me. I can't tolerate it. There's no way I'm going to have you just decide it's a smoke break because your back's hurting.

2:03:04SpeakerThere are rules to that. You get two 15-minute breaks like everybody else. Or else, yeah, I would rather hire a retired horticulturalist to work with that knows how to show up on fucking time. And is that scary that the first thing anybody who's good in cannabis does is avoid other cannabis people? They would only call us the people who turned our backs. And so... You know, can I just, can I say something here?

2:03:27SpeakerWhen I worked at Positronics, we had like 50 employees, or Bernard did... And he didn't, the policy was we weren't allowed to smoke or everybody else was and I was allowed to but I had a medical card and that was like weird. But nobody smoked because the problem was is that he didn't hire people that weren't smokers. It would be like a bar not hiring a bartender who would drink.

2:03:53SpeakerBut as long as you don't drink while you're working at the bar, you're cool. I mean, there's a difference between working and not working, and I think that that's really what needs to be recognized. It's not about avoiding other smokers because everyone that worked at Posse was a smoker. I mean, how many employees are at BPG, ATN? How many of them don't use cannabis when they're not working?

2:04:17SpeakerWell, when they're not working? Yeah, how many employees do you have now?

2:04:22Etienne FontanI have close to 80.

2:04:24SpeakerOkay, how many of them do not partake in cannabis, do you think? What's the percentage?

2:04:28Etienne FontanA very small percentage. I mean, but not during work.

2:04:32SpeakerNo, I understand they don't, but during work. But you couldn't run the place if you avoided people that smoked cannabis. Yeah.

2:04:39Etienne FontanWell, I have a different situation in California that has to have medical patients provide the medical patients.

2:04:44SpeakerAnd oddly enough, didn't you tell me that they voted so that they didn't have to work with other people who were stoned?

2:04:52Etienne FontanYes, it was voted by the workers that they did not want to have medicating. Uh, employees because it caused various situations and legality change, insurance and things, all those things changed and they actually voted for it and of course I got grandfathered and say no.

2:05:11SpeakerNo, but the point is that even people don't want to work around people that are slacking. So if they're slacking and they're feeling like you've got to work around people that aren't pulling their weight, in fact, that's annoying. You'll have animosity.

2:05:24Etienne FontanWithout a doubt, and that's what caused it, and that's why they actually caused that vote nearly a decade ago where they said, you know, we're going to stop medicating on premises because people would do things like they'd take two cookies and mash medical caramel in between. And call them stupid burgers. And they would eat these things and then You know, sure, they were high as hell. Somebody could actually function, but it was those who couldn't function, and that became the issue.

2:05:53Etienne FontanIf you're a high-functioning cannabis person and you can function around cannabis, you know, that's the best time. But we found that not everyone can do that, and that's why, you know, in the end, they decided they wanted that change. It never came from upper management. It came from the lower all the way up.

2:06:14SpeakerNo, and I think at Polytronics people have the same mutual feeling because if you're working on a team with other people and you're waiting for them to come back from a 15-minute toke break, you feel like they're wasting your time too. And I don't think anybody wants that. If you're loving what you're doing and you're being productive, I think there has to be an energy around it.

2:06:33SpeakerThere has to be a team spirit, so to speak.

2:06:35BubblemanWell, I'll definitely say for my own personal business, I puff from morning, noon, till night. I just, it works for me and I don't have anyone to answer to. I'm not working under anyone's thumb or for anyone else's dollar. It's just for me. And at the same time, I don't generally like, you know, I'm kind of stoked that my employees at Fresh Headies aren't puffing throughout the whole day.

2:06:58BubblemanThey've got a lot of different things they need to focus on and they don't have the same ability that I have where I can just get ripped, like literally five, six, seven dabs in and then have multiple conversations and Skype calls and video conferences and answer emails and like literally keep my shit together to the point where Thank you for watching.

2:07:30BubblemanIt works for some, it doesn't work for others.

2:07:32SpeakerRight. But can I add to this? You know what? Part of being a functional stoner was finding varieties that actually didn't knock me out because a lot of the stuff in the early 90s that I would get was like highly, you know, narcotic like where it was sedated, make me want to go take a nap and find the remote and finding clearer like hazes and also what you smoke is very, It's the highest of the highs in a lot of ways.

2:08:02BubblemanI will say this much. I am an anomaly in the sense that whether it's super strong, super uplifting, I can just puff it, and I can puff many, many bowls of it, and I just don't seem to be affected the way the majority of people around me get affected. Maybe not after the first one, but definitely after the 21st one. They're like this.

2:08:24SpeakerWell, look at us. I mean, it's a four-hour show, and we're puffing 80 weeks strong, and we only drift into poo turps for a few minutes per episode. Yeah, it's been two hours. I've done about 20 hits. That's how we function.

2:08:39Etienne FontanBut we're high-functioning cannabis people, and again, rules weren't made for the high-functioning cannabis people. It was those who tried to get off the porch and run with us who can't, you know, that caused the problems, you know. And look, I have a high tolerance. I have a tolerance like a bull. But at the same time, I tell people that when I also sit down and sesh with them and I say, you know, hey, I have a high tolerance.

2:09:02Etienne FontanDo not try to keep up with me. And if you do, that's your responsibility, not mine. I'm just making you aware now is that, you know, that's the reality of dabbing.

2:09:13SpeakerThat seems to be the case. High functioning cannabis people are the ones that end up at the top of the pyramid and then they turn around and basically say like, look, if you're not a high functioning cannabis person, put the cannabis down in a business sense. That's why the stories keep lining up. The head of the company seems to be the only person that can go to work and do professional business on cannabis.

2:09:35SpeakerWell, no, that's not true, Horatio. I never smoked at my greenhouse. I never smoked in the early morning when I worked because I was dealing with governments and licenses and all kinds of crap. And what I would do is when I got home, I would start smoking. Then I'd smoke until the evening. But no. And I used and smoked as much as anybody I know. But I didn't smoke from morning until night.

2:10:08BubblemanI do now, but I'm retired. I will say this. The first time I really had a session with you with your hash, it was like, almost like a religious experience. Now, it didn't knock me out, but it just got me so high so fast, and I kept getting higher every time we took a rip, and you must have given me like 20 or 30 rips in the few hours that we chilled out, while you yourself, for sure...

2:10:38BubblemanTook like closer to what I thought was like a hundred. You were just like...

2:10:46BubblemanI couldn't believe it. It was impressive to say the least. And after a while, I think it changed me forever actually that I just... I don't think I've hit anything like that since. And I've hit dry sift that's been that clean, but none of it has even come close to being as strong as that first skunk number one. That shit was...

2:11:08SpeakerWhen it was cleaned up really good, it tasted like some sort of flowery, honey, musky, honey oil. I mean, it was just unbelievable. It was basically micro-encapsulated oil.

2:11:25BubblemanBut how strong that it was, it almost like when I first hit it, I remember how beautiful and tasty it was, but the thing that shocked me more than how flavorful it was was Thank you for joining us.

2:11:51SpeakerAnd when that experience is new to you, then yeah, it's going to be relatively shocking. Whereas if you do it every day, then you're more like you are now today.

2:12:05BubblemanYeah, it never shocked me again the way it did that first time for sure, but I had already been puffing like beautiful melts and stuff. It really made me understand the difference between The manipulated assumption of seeing something, but not exactly knowing the true chemical constituents, the way you were growing, the strain you grew, the way it was bred was just so much more intense than anything I had seen.

2:12:31BubblemanAnd I had seen beautiful things from all sorts of different breeders, but they weren't like that skunk number one. Holy shit. I'll puff to that.

2:12:44SpeakerAs soon as you said that, I was like, oh, are you talking about those highs where you get a panic attack that it's this good and you weren't ready to have this good of a time? Because you know it's a one-off. It's like when the Terps came out and everybody started getting childishly high again. And I'm like, fuck, this isn't going to last. We better take a break because it seems like it can only happen once every 10 years that something new...

2:13:09SpeakerI wonder, you know when you remember when people used to take a hit and it was like you were displaced from the universe and a step back and watching life and I'm like, where the fuck is that kind of dab or hit or rip or do I have to smoke weed again? That still happens to me every night, Horatio. Every night.

2:13:27BubblemanYeah, that's what I'm saying. You just gotta hit that right shit.

2:13:32SpeakerI'm so used to that being my space. I'm like, whoa, the world is too foreign. I gotta get back to... But it doesn't... Because it's my normal space now, it's not like when, wow, I'm in this dream world. How can I go... The living world seems so boring. Now this is my true nature that I miss it being foreign.

2:13:52BubblemanOn a side note, I did just take my first Terp Dip of the day. It was the Sunset KB, one of my favorites, two strains that got mixed together, and what a fucking lovely high. No anxiety, definitely not, but more like that same kind of like just climbing, but really nicely. Welcome, Tony, to the room.

2:14:14TonyWhat's up, Mr. Bubble Man and everybody? How are you today?

2:14:22BubblemanWe had a good conversation. Dana told us earlier about his million seed giveaway that he's in the middle of doing. And we've had a bunch of different discussions about some other things. But yeah, that was kind of the beginning of Hash Church was Dana coming in and telling everyone about his million seed giveaway. Yeah, maybe we could actually mention, I don't know how it would help Dana, I know that he is in need of some donations so we can continue to give away, so maybe if you guys want to get in touch with Dana, what is it, Dana Larson, Dana at, what's your email?

2:14:58Dana LarsonDana at danalarson.com, if you go to overgrowcanada.com you can see what I'm doing. I got it turned up.

2:15:07BubblemanAs long as you talk close to your computer like that, it seems to be we can hear you.

2:15:14Dana LarsonOvergrowCanada.com and Dana at DanaLarson.com. And yeah, I mean, I've got most of the seeds that I'm giving away are basically hemp seeds or CBD seeds, but I'm also giving a lot of THC marijuana seeds. I've had about 50,000 donated to me so far, but I could do with a few more Ziploc baggies full of seeds to give away as well.

2:15:38BubblemanYeah, so that's always a good thing. If you want to help out Danny, you can get in touch with him at those locations if you want to be a part of a sort of historical moment in the normalization of cannabis growing in Canada. Pretty easy way to be a part of it, you know? Obviously, if you got the good seeds, send them. Canada could use them.

2:15:59SpeakerSam has the good seeds. Go skunk up Canada one more time. Go skunk up Canada.

2:16:07SpeakerOh my goodness.

2:16:08Etienne FontanPut the skunk back in North America.

2:16:11SpeakerWell, I'm not sure about growing skunk outdoors in most places in Canada. In the southern Ontario area, and maybe the southern BC area, but in most places, it's tough.

2:16:27Dana LarsonI mean, if they're great genetics, that's great, but really I just need plants that'll grow nice outdoors, that'll, that'll... Pretty and hopefully get people some good cannabis. I tell them if you're in a grow room and you want to invest, go buy some seeds from a breeder and get some good stuff. But this is a political campaign, really, and sort of the idea of growing cannabis in your front yard, growing it outdoors.

2:16:52Dana LarsonYou know, some other breeders have donated me kind of their seeds as a result of breeding experiments that they can't really sell because they're not stabilized or whatever, but they're certainly going to be something to grow outdoors. So that's really what I'm looking for. A million. Some of the people have promised them to me they should be in the mail. They're just not all here yet.

2:17:08SpeakerA million seeds. That's about 20 kilos.

2:17:11Dana LarsonWell, I said most of these, I promised, I've said a million. Most of those million are hemp seeds, but you have two. Huge buckets that I got donated to me. And I'm hoping to give about 100,000 marijuana seeds. I've got about half of those that I've been able to donate. But I've got about 1,000 right now that have asked for THC seeds that I can't fill yet.

2:17:32Dana LarsonBut I'm hoping to get more donations coming in. And certainly the more donations I get, the more I'll pass them on.

2:17:40SpeakerWell, I believe in giving them away for free. In some of the marijuana marches here, I gave away a couple of kilos, so that's $100,000, $150,000. And I told people they were skunk number one, but a lot of people looked at me like they didn't really believe me. They thought they were hemp seeds or something, but they weren't. They were skunk number one, made by me. Imagine that.

2:18:06BubblemanThe worst time ever to doubt reality that's happening in front of you. It's like, who's this?

2:18:11SpeakerI'm telling you, it's the real triumph.

2:18:13BubblemanWho's this fucking dude in these Birkenstocks trying to give me fucking skunk number one seeds?

2:18:22BubblemanYep, that's pretty nuts.

2:18:27SpeakerI'd say that's pretty awesome, actually. I wish I was...

2:18:31Dana LarsonOne thing I found surprising from this seed thing is how many people don't know they can buy marijuana seeds in Canada. They're like, oh, I've been looking for seeds. I didn't know where to get them. Thank you so much for sending me seeds. I'm going to put these in my grow room and help my wife who's got leukemia. I'm like, dude, no, don't do that with my seeds.

2:18:49Dana LarsonSpend $100. Go to a real seed bank. Here's five. There's a lot of people who are totally unaware that you can buy mail-order marijuana seeds in Canada. And I always forget, you know, that I live in a bubble inside a bubble when it comes to the marijuana world, as do we all here. And there's so many people who just have no idea what's going on or that these things are a bit anywhere.

2:19:11Dana LarsonAnd I tell them, if you've got a grow room and you've spent money indoors, don't put seeds in it. Go buy some actual seeds that'll be perfect for one, right? I'm just surprised by that, how many people just have no idea that seeds are even for sale in Canada at all and thought that I was the only place to get them. I'm like, no, no, don't. That's not true at all.

2:19:33BubblemanIt's pretty crazy. It's a crazy world we live in. Might have to do another giant dab. Terp dab, maybe. You guys down for a puff?

2:19:45BubblemanLittle puffy puff? Little puffaroo? I can always puff.

2:19:49SpeakerSo, I'm gonna do a terp dab with you.

2:19:52BubblemanA hufflepuff, even. A hufflepuff? A pufflehuff? I'll huff and I'll huff and I'll puff down your mothership.

2:20:03BubblemanI've got to hit that fucking Sunset KB again. My God. That's delicious. So is this rosin that these guys gave me the other day. What do you guys think of them apples?

2:20:17Etienne FontanWell, that's a pretty apple.

2:20:20SpeakerThat's proper, right? I just did a turd on top of this rosin and it looks amazing. So I'm taking pictures, sorry.

2:20:30Etienne FontanWhat flavor is that there, Mr. B-Man?

2:20:32BubblemanThis is the purple candy from the good folks at West Coast Concentrate doing the good work. I mean, that is just ridiculous.

2:20:42Etienne FontanThat's redonkulous. I got cat in mouth just looking at that.

2:20:47BubblemanIt takes on any color that you put behind it because it's damn near clear.

2:20:51SpeakerHere's my little dip.

2:20:57BubblemanBooyah.

2:20:58SpeakerThis looks better.

2:21:01BubblemanIt's beautiful.

2:21:03Etienne FontanI've got to say that's some of the clearest rosin I've seen. Somebody commented that in the chat and I have to agree.

2:21:09BubblemanAnd available, that's the crazy thing, like anyone can go buy that shit at like Eden and I think Sunrise Wellness Center might sell these guys. I don't know the names of the places they do, but the fact of the matter is if you're in Canada and you're watching this and you're like, damn, I want to be puffing on what Bubble Man's puffing on, it's totally easy to acquire.

2:21:28BubblemanYou can just order it, mail order it online, which is pretty fucking incredible when you think about it. Come visit Canada, that's what it does. Terp dip.

2:21:43BubblemanThis is where D420K would be like, bone rip! Double dip. That's it.

2:21:50SpeakerIt'd be triple dipping.

2:21:55Etienne FontanWho's got the quintuple?

2:21:59Etienne FontanWho's got the what? Quintuple.

2:22:03SpeakerI'm going to go with quintuple. I can do that.

2:22:07Etienne FontanI got this Congo dry sift that's like... Chad's like, I'll accept that challenge. Head race, you've run more turps. We discussed that.

2:22:18SpeakerWe had the turps, we had sift, we had bubble, we had everything. Me and Mark are sitting in the beautiful sunshine on a park bench and what do we go for? The sift.

2:22:31BubblemanWhat does anyone go for? What are you puffing on, Tony? Some greasy grease?

2:22:37TonyWell, I'm talking to a friend of mine that grows the Long Valley Royal Kush. He makes flour rosin. And since I don't make a lot of flour rosin, I was trying his Long Valley Royal Kush flour rosin versus the turps. Right. Then I've got some turp melt goo that we made last week. And then there's the BB Man, the Bubble Man, the Bubble Man's Turf Melt. This is Jagu and Afgu.

2:23:17TonyAnd then there's one is a Jagu on Goo. One is a Jagu Hash Rosin and one is a Goo with Goo Terps on Full Melt.

2:23:38BubblemanDid you do a big mix mash hit or are you going to hit one of those each one after the other and get hash church torn?

2:23:45TonyWell, I was trying to see like the difference between the turf melt and the turf rosin. I think we just always gravitate towards the full melt with the terpenes together. It just seems to have a bigger flavor. But it's not as melty and goes, it's not straight to oil, you know, and it's not as, Maybe not as strong potency-wise. Very close. The flavor is crazy. It smells like fruit.

2:24:13TonyYeah, I was going to do... You guys caught me when I was cleaning my nail, but I was going to do a triple dip. A triple dip here. And we're on... We're on...

2:24:29Etienne FontanSo everybody, let's see, we're at nearly 911 people. What's everybody smoking right now, just out of curiosity? Let's see the chat go crazy for a second. I'm smoking on some Run Run Bubble Gum and some Bizarre Brothers doing some nice rosin as well.

2:24:47SpeakerI dug up some Pineapple Express Terps. I haven't seen, I haven't opened this shit in I swear a fucking year and it hasn't changed.

2:24:57BubblemanI have some of that too, Horatio.

2:25:00SpeakerIf you can find it, see how it is. There's so many little vials. The ones that I first gave, I lost them all because it's like I stashed them so deep. I don't know where the fuck they went. Like my THC, I'm like, I swear I have my first jar, but I don't know where.

2:25:19Etienne FontanIt is so much fun to watch the trap just go genetic crazy. Right now?

2:25:28Etienne FontanDoing it up. Now be honest people, don't make stuff up just to make stuff up. What are you really smoking?

2:25:36SpeakerThey're all smoking Bubba Kush. I don't know about this purple. All of a sudden it's like Blue Dream, Blue Dream, Blue Dream, Blue Dream, Blue Dream. Number 8 from La Colada.

2:25:48BubblemanOh, number 8 from La Colada. I got my La Colada shirt on today giving those guys props. I saw you were wearing it. Thank you, Tony. I believe it was you that brought me the La Colada shirt.

2:26:00TonyYeah. Yeah, when you were... Dying? Dying sick. I'm still actually... Still not 100% with it, man. My ears is... You know, I did travel... I did travel again. I just came back from Denver, and just the traveling just keeps my ears... Yeah, you still sound a little congested, Tony. Yeah. I tried to decongest... Decongestant and all kinds of stuff. I just can't get over it.

2:26:33SpeakerYeah, it's a serious thing.

2:26:38SpeakerI'm real curious to see what the testing results will be back from number eight.

2:26:44BubblemanYeah, well, I don't know what happened. I totally got that guy's soda in touch with... No, we've got number eight. It arrived. He's got it.

2:26:54SpeakerOkay.

2:26:55BubblemanPerfect. I was going to say, no one's letting me know.

2:26:58SpeakerThe only one is number 23. We need to try to find 23 if it's out there with Team 10.

2:27:06BubblemanOh, what, that crazy rosin?

2:27:08TonyYeah, that's people's choice.

2:27:13SpeakerYes, and I would love to test that. So if you have a way, please get me in contact with them.

2:27:20BubblemanWell, just hit us up, Team 10. If you're out there, if you're watching Hash Church, I know you fucking guys are.

2:27:27Etienne FontanHey, hey, I got to ask, what is unicorn barf? Somebody put that strain up.

2:27:36BubblemanWell, that was the pre-skunk number one that Sam bred before skunk number one was the unicorn barf.

2:27:45SpeakerIs OG Pie Breath real?

2:27:50BubblemanTeam 10 Extracts from the UK. Yes, Mr. Craigie. Team 10 Extracts. Tell them to get in touch with the booble man.

2:27:58TonySo I started, I was up late last night making some music. Oh my God, the triple dip. Oh, look at that.

2:28:12BubblemanThat's an epic moment right there.

2:28:20SpeakerI just got tagged in a picture of the duel. It's fucking fast. That's definitely going to be on Instagram and everything. Yeah, that'll be a meme for sure. Your challenge of six. I'll lay it out here. So challenging accepted. So you're going to have to come up with a big dab yourself of six different flavors. This is a go. Three different terps, three different mediums. Triple dip.

2:28:51SpeakerJohn's new neck's got him puffing mean these days. He's ready to cough.

2:28:58SpeakerActually, if it's three terps and it's three other ingredients, it's three times three triple dip.

2:29:08BubblemanWell, Chimera's here to fucking tell you that's not right. Go ahead, Chimera.

2:29:14Ryan Dank AfI've been having bad internet connections, Tom.

2:29:17BubblemanI'm totally bugging you. What happened? You look clear now, I'll tell you that much. All of you guys look way clear.

2:29:23Ryan Dank AfRebooted, reset the modem, all that.

2:29:27BubblemanI always think it's my computer.

2:29:32BubblemanWell, we still got 900 people checking out Hash Church in our two-hour. I guess we're in our third hour now going on about Tony drooling after a big rip. That was... That was legitimate right there.

2:29:49Ryan Dank AfSo Tony, I was looking over the turf profiles on Blue River Extract's website.

2:29:55TonyYes.

2:29:57Ryan Dank AfThere's some weird shit going on with those, man. I don't know if it's your lab or if it's something in the process, but it's pretty weird.

2:30:03TonyWell, number one, it's not my lab. I don't own a lab.

2:30:08Ryan Dank AfNo, no, I realize that. But I mean the lab you're using, what I meant by your lab, sorry.

2:30:13TonyYeah, the one that we used for those first ones was steep.

2:30:17Ryan Dank AfYeah, I'd be really interested to see more of those profiles coming out of SC because I know they're validated and they've got way more terpenes than SC is validating, or, sorry, than Halent is validating.

2:30:28TonyI agree. I'm going to send, I'm sending a sample of each thing on Monday that I have to SC. Good. I agree because it's been, there's some weird stuff like, uh, Just like if you take the ACDC profile and I made it into like the Prana and I put it into the P5, the spike that they read was not matching like the terpenes. You know, and it should.

2:30:59TonyThere's nothing changing.

2:31:00Ryan Dank AfYeah, well I mean I don't know tons of stuff about your system or the variables or I assume it's all like single clone batches and all that kind of stuff.

2:31:09TonyYeah.

2:31:10Ryan Dank AfBut there were some weird terp results that I was seeing terps that are not usually found together and some weird ratios and some weird profiles on plants that I know. So it's like something's up.

2:31:21TonyYeah, I'm just curious to get your feedback because I didn't alter to do anything and if you also notice there's not like oxidized versions of things in there too.

2:31:30Ryan Dank AfWell, they test for a really small subset of terps, and I really don't like the way they present the data, too. You can't tell the ratios between the terps because they adjust the bar graphs to fit on that little space that they use. It's kind of weird. I know that SC is validated at least for terps, and I'll be interested to see what some of the terpene profiles on those varieties once they're up.

2:31:57BubblemanWhat does SC test? Like 30 terps or something? 34.

2:32:01Ryan Dank AfI'm not sure how many they test for. They only, these labs test for more than they, than they demonstrate on their lab report graph. So.

2:32:13TonyThey do 34. And then we had, so there's a lot of collabs that we do with Gold Drop and they test with SC. So, especially all of the single source like Blue River Gold Drop pens. Those all get tested, and they're somewhere around 8% to 12% terpenes, and they have 34%. I didn't want to put those up because they have cannabinoids in them as well. I didn't want to throw people off, you know what I mean?

2:32:47Tony81%! Whoa, guy. We're not selling that. But no, I'm going to send the individual batch to each one of them. It just takes a little chunk of money and some time.

2:33:01Ryan Dank AfTesting ain't cheap when you're doing 30 or 40.

2:33:07TonyNo, not at all. But it's worth it. It's worth it. I'm curious to see what it is. I was more like what you think of the Gorilla Glue. There's only 10 standards at Steep Hill and that was 98% of the 10 standards.

2:33:24Ryan Dank AfYeah, look, let me go up, and I have to pull it up again in your website, but that was one of the ones that was weird, like the terpene profile that you had on your website for Gorilla Glue was totally didn't match the variety. So, what is it? It's Blue River Extract, right?

2:33:40TonyYep.

2:33:44Ryan Dank AfIt had terpenylene in it, I think, if I remember correctly, and that's not right. There's no terpenylene in Gorilla Glue.

2:33:50SpeakerAlso, one was really high in kinene or canine or I forget what the compound was called, but it's a compound that's terpene that's hardly ever found in cannabis, but it was extremely high.

2:34:07Ryan Dank AfYeah, so, yeah, that was one of them.

2:34:12TonyYeah, so that gorilla glue is that one that we ran, I'm trying to think. It was probably, there's two Gorilla Blues. There's an 11 and a 4.

2:34:27Ryan Dank AfOkay.

2:34:29TonyAnd this one, there's a couple Gorilla Blues out there. This particular one, this was a while ago. This was, well, six.

2:34:45Etienne FontanYeah.

2:34:47Ryan Dank AfSorry, I'm just laughing. I see the Quantican thing on the bottom, and I'm like, oh. It always makes me laugh, but.

2:34:54TonyI can tell you that most of the ones at SE are like, you know, in the high 80s, and they have a really wide spectrum. I felt this was kind of, that's why I had them up, and then I took them down, and people were like, oh, why don't you have them up there? I'm like, listen, I know it comes from Gorilla Glue, and I know I do it to where it's not oxidizing, so that makes sense on a lot of these, but the spread of them, I don't add anything or mix two things, cultivars together, that's directly from that Gorilla Glue.

2:35:24TonyWhether it was 11 or 4, it should still have a certain pattern that reads familiar. And I can tell you that in all the Gorilla Glue rosin and things that we've run, the Humulene was always a spike. I don't know if that's something that you always notice, but...

2:35:42Ryan Dank AfIt's a sesquiterp and it's not usually the top three. I mean, I look at those, but I usually try to classify stuff by the top three terps.

2:35:50TonyYeah.

2:35:51Ryan Dank AfIt is in this... Well, the one I'm looking at, it's alpha-pinene dominant and then beta-myrcene and then limonene or pumuline, limonene, and terpenylene.

2:36:02TonyYeah.

2:36:03Ryan Dank AfBut if you look at most Gorilla Glue, even on the SC website, you do a terpene, go to Gorilla Glue and hit terpene search and you'll see that it's a totally different profile.

2:36:15SpeakerIs this related to why Leafly seems to have so much misinformation? Because I notice now strains show up with this circle with the steep hill data and they'll tell you the top five terpenes and I'll smell weed and I'll look at weed and I'm like, I don't understand. Is this because it's done?

2:36:31Ryan Dank AfIt gives you the top five that they analyze.

2:36:34SpeakerSo if their data is like consistently shifting The knowledge on cannabis and Leafly is that type of site where everyone buys their weed and goes, well, let me find out about it and what it should do to me. Is that a time bomb? More than just regular people being uninformed. But the fact that now that steep hill data is plugging in online, it sounds way more legit than it used to when it was just a write-up by nobody.

2:37:00SpeakerSo if you're basically targeting steep hill, it sounds like it's, even when I look at that data, I'm like, now I know it's even more wrong than ever? Holy shit. Is there anything I can trust left?

2:37:12Ryan Dank AfWell, the thing is, without knowing the exact, I mean, I don't know if they still are, but they used to do their terpene analysis by liquid chromatography, not gas, so...

2:37:25Ryan Dank AfWe just, I don't know, man. There's some stuff that's wrong, and I don't know if it's something in the process that Tony's doing, which I suspect it's not. I think it's in the analysis, but either way, on one or the other, something's happening, and a lot of plants end up looking the same.

2:37:42TonyHere's the information I can give you in the process that might help you clear up some of that or not, but basically... And I talked to this, talked to Bubble Man about this a couple times, and I put something on the blog as well. We mentioned it last week. You know, it really, it depends on, one, your starting material. So if you're using just the buds versus a leaf or somebody sifted the bud, and it's super important whether it's fresh or not.

2:38:15TonySo I used to, a couple years ago when I was making terpenes and people met me in Amsterdam, that was like... More of like direct hydro distillation, like the kits that you see everybody trying to do, they're just boiling through plant material. And when you do that with fresh material, the plant, you know, a flower may have 1%, say it has 1% terpenes, then you're really pulling, you know, 80 to over 80% of that when it's fresh material is going to have, you know, the more volatile monos.

2:38:51TonyAnd Then as that plant dries and cures out, that 1% slowly dwindles down to about 0.1%. And of that, in the process that I'm doing, I'm extracting them without doing that method of using heat or boiling through the plant material. And so I feel that the process that I do is a little different in the fact that I'm looking for particularly cured flowers And I'm trying to get more of the safe second terpenes and the things that maybe in the way that you're used to seeing terpenes extracted or through other people's ways, you would see more oxidized and you would see a lot more mono.

2:39:35TonyBut I've always felt that was more dangerous and that's honestly why I never came out with the terpenes because I was afraid people would just go, oh, okay, I can do this, anyone can do this, and they start doing that. And it's a different type of... So I don't know if that helps you maybe see what I'm doing a little bit.

2:39:58Ryan Dank AfWe spoke a little bit offline. I'm leaning towards the problem is in the analysis and not your technique. But what the analysis shows, at least, is that a lot of these things look the same. And I don't believe that... It all came from when I was talking with Sam and asking him which of the Terps he was smoking the most, and he was smoking the Lemon Kush the most.

2:40:19Ryan Dank AfAnd that surprised me, because it's a Myrcene-dominant one, at least by the analysis on the site. I figured that he'd be smoking the Limonene-dominant one, but he wasn't.

2:40:29TonyWell, that Lemon Kush... So let's talk about that Lemon Kush. So that Lemon Kush... That was kind of the first thing we ran as a promo thing out of Oregon. And the guy that's been growing a long time called it Lemon Kush. I personally know of Lemon Kush as something different, more fuel-y, and more into the limonene base. And this one was more of... You know, it's funny, it's not even on here, but I felt like when you smell it and you taste it, it was a combination of the linalool and beta-mercine with a little bit of maybe some of the beta-caropaline stuff and maybe some, a little bit of the pinene.

2:41:18TonyBut I didn't feel like it was a limonene-dominant one. And I think the grower that's been growing it for a long time, in my opinion, He's calling it lemon cushion. I've answered this like a bunch to like just different people that have bought it that were expecting that fuel. I think just because I've seen a lot of different strains, it's more of the lavender, like Soma's lavender, than it is the lemon cushion of which we all know.

2:41:45TonyAnd even if it was that one, I'm not sure that reading would represent what I'm smelling and tasting. So I'm agreeing with you, and that's why I was hesitant of putting these up, but I was like, all right, well, this is the data they gave me, you know what I mean?

2:42:00Ryan Dank AfRight, well, and that's the unfortunate thing is you're always limited by the data, right? So you have to rely on the data, but that means you have to rely on the lab to be giving you data that's good. And, dude, this stuff is missing. It's missing so many important peaks, and it includes shit like Phytol and Citronellol, which is really low. They occur in really low amounts, even caryophylline oxide.

2:42:24Ryan Dank AfRight? So I don't know. I just don't like the way that Steve Hill, you know, no offense Steve Hill, but I don't like the way you present your terpene data. I think it leaves half the story untold and it's really a shame. And if it were me trying to advertise a product that I was making, I'd use Nessie's report because it's more illustrative of what's in the sample.

2:42:46SpeakerWell, not only that, but ideally the herbs should be terpene profiled And then the terpene that you're selling. Yeah, that's a good idea right there.

2:42:59Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, listen, that's expensive and it's already hard enough for Tony to be paying to get all the terpene analysis done on his extracts. I think if maybe he did a couple and he showed that the, you know, the The fingerprint of the oil is close to the fingerprint of the flower. Yeah, that's a start. I don't think he does need to do it on every single one.

2:43:24TonyWell, I do require, so there is something though I can get. A lot of them now, I'm requiring them when they go test their flowers that they test the terpene profile. So I do get that data handed to me.

2:43:36Ryan Dank AfWell, shit, if you're getting it for free anyway, then you may as well be passing it on to the customer.

2:43:39TonyOh, we lost Tony.

2:43:46Ryan Dank AfRight in the mid-sentence, eh? Yeah, I'm a bummer. But anyway, on the topic of testing, it's hard for, it's an added expense to put on the producer or the dispensary, and you have to have batches that are large enough that it makes sense economically to do that. But I definitely think it's most important to be putting the chemical data of the product on the product.

2:44:12SpeakerMark Scaldone, in university-style testing... Do you come across, I don't know how to say it, like, do terps come up often enough in, like, pufermy and medicine that they go at it for profiles like that? Do you see those types, like, is there a format that we could aspire to that is already built for plants? If we're going for perfume, do the perfumers go through this? They're testing the basil, then they're analyzing their extract.

2:44:42SpeakerWhen Tony said oxidized versus non-oxidized, I'm like, wow. Imagine if it would be THCA versus decarboxylated. It would be a way of valuing even terpenes. If you see a guy and his shit's all oxidized version, you could go, well, that's half the price, then The original, is there, do you see that in like, does the protein NMR offer that potential without?

2:45:03Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean NMR, NMR, HPLC, GC, for the most part, yeah, I mean any of the, Uh, applications of flavors and fragrances, GC plays a really big role because it's an olfactory sense, but, you know, if you go back to, you know, I think where the discussion was going was, again, some of these things aren't necessarily, and I think the reason why Sam had said, you know, profiling it back to the strain itself so you don't have to have an individual analysis every time, but if you can use a marker that's been established By a profile where you've looked at it both by NMR and you've looked at it by LCM aspect and you've identified to the nth degree as best you possibly can with every tool available.

2:45:56Dr Mark ScialdoneAs best you possibly can, all the different compounds that are in the essential oil of a particular variety, that can be essentially the chemical profile of that variety that you can use in looking at segregating rooms or if you want to make sure that you're taking the same genetics through a concentration process where you want to make sure you're not mixing You know, say a high CBD with a high THC variety just because you mistakenly had plants mixed up, or if you're at the point where you're actually wanting to dial in varieties of different cannabinoids, yeah, I mean, this goes back to what the genetics can do and what you can do in processing, but you're taking a very complex mixture of Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:47:19Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it's just one of those things like CBN formation, you just can't control. It's going to start happening as soon as you harvest. And all of these mechanisms are in place and it's very difficult to characterize them on any botanical source, let alone on cannabis. But to go back to your question, it's just university style testing. I assume you're talking about NMR. NMR is just a great tool to help validate A more practical tool like HPLC mass spec or GC mass spec which can be run by the cannabis testing companies to make sure that again you're seeing reproducibility in terms of terpene and cannabinoid profile from strain to strain or from product to product.

2:48:06Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I don't think that Tony needs to test every terpene but if every terpene is run by a standard operating process And when you run that process, say, five or ten times, you're within the process specifications that would, again, fit the scrutiny of a more detailed NMR and HPLC analysis, then, yeah, I would say that that would be totally fine, reproducible for, you know, a scalable, you know, product for the industry.

2:48:38Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, you know, we're talking about, at least we're talking about, I know that that method is validated for 30 plus terps.

2:48:49Ryan Dank AfIn the steep hell data, they're presenting nine or ten terpenes, including the sesquiterpenes, and you're missing a lot of the picture. The other thing that is a real problem with it is it doesn't, you know, smell, scent is an orchestra of individual notes, but it's like a, it is like an orchestra where the...

2:49:06Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. It's a transient orchestra, too. It changes, you know, very much changes. Well, it changes by cultivation, it changes by a whole bunch of different things.

2:49:16Ryan Dank AfBut, you know, we're really talking about what this stuff smells like. So as far as Tony presenting his data to the customer, which is what he's trying to do, yeah, I think you want to give as accurate information as possible and be able to describe the ratios between the different compounds. And all I'm saying is that the Steep Hills lab report doesn't allow you to do that.

2:49:44Ryan Dank AfAt least easily, you know, and it only tells part of the picture because they're only looking at 10 terpenes including mono and sesquiterpenes, so that's a bummer. I think it's a fail on Steve Hill's part and considering they're one of the oldest labs in the state, I think they should have it down better than that, but it's just my opinion.

2:50:01TonyYou see why I had like a little disclaimer on it and then everyone was asking for those again, and I was like, just give me a minute, where in the ideal world, if you were able to just, you know, uh, Thank you. Thank you.

2:50:43TonyAnd I will be able to get all the testing done.

2:50:46SpeakerTony, could you just say you need 30 days of things only going to plan? I can't get three of those days in a row. Good luck.

2:51:00SpeakerWell, Tony, once you do get things rolling in your direction, it would be nice to have three different labs do the testing. I want to... When they agree, then maybe they're right.

2:51:17Ryan Dank AfYeah. Trying to get three labs to agree is currently a problem, you know.

2:51:22SpeakerWell, then there is a core problem. I agree.

2:51:26Ryan Dank AfYeah, but again, I don't think it's necessary to do three labs. I think just choose one lab that's presenting the format in a way that, you know, you get the information that you're looking for and it's also validated. And I think I see, you know, as much as they take some shit,

2:51:42TonySo let me ask Mark this then. I have a question because everything that I've looked into with the NMR, it's pretty expensive to run. You don't need an NMR.

2:51:54Ryan Dank AfIt is very accurate, but it's not necessary.

2:51:57Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat do you mean it's not necessary?

2:52:00Ryan Dank AfWhy is it not necessary? Why is it necessary? I mean, GCFID and HPLC for Cannabs is accurate.

2:52:07Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, okay, so let me just explain this. I think I've said this before, you know, NMR... Is a non-destructive method so you're looking at the entire mixture of compounds as opposed to chromatography where you separate the individual components and you better make sure that when you separate the individual components that all the components add up to the total part of the mixture or else you can't put that jigsaw back together.

2:52:34Dr Mark ScialdoneWith NMR I can look at the entire mixture and tell you to the nth degree Every compound that's in there, period. I didn't invent this method. I know you didn't. This method exists, and people like Hans Kamp, and El Soli, and everybody, all the lead cannabis chemists in the world use NMR, and multi-dimensional NMR techniques have been used to solve all the minor cannabinoids that exist. As you know, Mishulam used proton NMR to solve the structure.

2:53:08Dr Mark ScialdoneWe've had this discussion before. This is mute. NMR is useful to analyze mixtures of compounds.

2:53:15Ryan Dank AfI know Arno. He's visited my house. I've visited his house in Holland. I've seen the NMR machine, and he doesn't use it for terpene analysis. He uses GCFID, and he uses HPLC for cannabinoids.

2:53:28Dr Mark ScialdoneYou could use NMR to analyze mixtures of compounds, and when you're looking at mixtures of compounds, whether they're cannabinoids or terpenes, it's irrelevant.

2:53:37Ryan Dank AfDo you have one reference where they use NMR to detect all the components of cannabis?

2:53:45Etienne FontanYeah, because I've got a bad chimeria here. I've been to Arno's laboratory, too, and been through it, and yeah, yeah. It's just you use GC there.

2:53:54Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I can tell you, he published methods where he gives the NMRs of terpenes are all known. This is all out in the literature, Chimera. Right, but I know that.

2:54:06Ryan Dank AfI know that, and they use it for single identifying and confirming purity. Arno made his own standards using NMR, but he doesn't use it to do samples. Oh, no, no, no.

2:54:17Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay. Can I clarify something? I'm not saying that this is a method that can be used in a routine way to analyze samples like for med testing in Colorado. I'm not saying that at all. It's a research tool to look at mixtures of organic compounds. And it gives the chemist a very unique set of eyes to look at a mixture by not separating out the individual components, which, yes, is very useful.

2:54:48Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd chromatographic methods used side by side with NMR methods gives the chemist a very unique set of eyes to look at mixtures of compounds. But again, the fact that a lot of the individual ones have already been characterized We can put together the jigsaw puzzle of mixtures by just looking at it. This is what NMR methods can do right now. I'm not saying that it's something that can be done in a routine way to analyze Tony's analysis, but what I'm saying is that if Tony develops a standard operating procedure that's validated by NMR where they can look at the different mixtures of the different terpenes that are in there, and then he runs that process, And then measures it say in a routine way by either GC or HPLC.

2:55:39Dr Mark ScialdoneYou'll use NMR as just sort of like a one-time way of validating a particular way or process to produce A product within certain product specifications, and what I mean by that are different terpenes in different concentrations, so it's reproducible from run to run if it's run by Tony's standard operating procedure, which we'll have documented and validated once using NMR as one of the many analytical techniques to do so.

2:56:09Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's all I'm saying.

2:56:11TonyThat's actually what I was going to ask you. That's exactly what I was leading to. So come here, you approve of SC. So that's not as horrible to get everything done. That's all. I'm going to send a bunch of them out and we'll see what that looks like. So we'll have the flower, we'll have the terpene analysis, but what I was going to ask is what Mark answered was let's say I take one of those samples and I really want to, we want to look finer at it and would it prove We're looking for footprints of what Mark said.

2:56:44TonySo if somebody says, okay, I'm making terpenes or I'm doing this with terpenes, you could tell very quickly in a, I guess you'd say it's a further certification process of what that data would look like. I'd be very interested to see what would happen with Mark analyzing that under a proton and a mark because I'm not afraid of what it would show and we talk about what purity is and when I say I don't use any solvents, that would be the Well, holy grail to see you, man.

2:57:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so let me go to a point that I brought up at my class, and thanks for bringing that up, Tony. It's kind of like what I call undressing the Mona Lisa. So when you look at a lot of these extracts, and when you just take an extract even off of a plant by taking an NMR solvent that's typically a deuterated solvent and just washing it over bud, filtering it, and running the NMR of that, basically you see a textbook spectrum of THCA.

2:57:42Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it's kind of like what I said is undressing the Mona Lisa. It's like when you're looking at the Mona Lisa painting, you're looking at the stark image of this woman, and the woman in the NMR is the THCA. You kind of need to take the woman out of the Mona Lisa picture so you can see what Mona Lisa's wearing, her gown and everything else that's in there.

2:58:04Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the notion is that you can look at the NMR and you can know the peaks that are associated with THCA. So everything else sort of creates this fingerprint. Same kind of fingerprint that you would see like in the near IR if you were looking at say just the near IR spectrum that they look at some of these machines that have the Pelican case type analyzers. But I'm going to just go back to NMR for a second.

2:58:30Dr Mark ScialdoneThe beautiful thing about NMR is that you can look at both the proton and And the carbon, because the carbon is really rich with a lot of information. And it's really cool, Chimera, because you could start to see trends between different strains. And you could identify, yeah, that's limonene, that's beta-caryophyllene. And sure enough, go offline, yep, that's the beta-caryophyllene, and that's the limonene peaks. And you could sort of start to quantify that in a very quantifiable way to start to see trends and look at the...

2:59:01Dr Mark ScialdoneBut you could see that all with the GC. Yeah, no, no, but the beautiful thing is that you're doing this at room temperature, so you're not sending it through the gas chromatograph, which again is injecting stuff And again, I totally agree. I want to see the GC of what I'm looking at in the NMR so I can get the additional information so I could spec Tony's procedure to say that this is how we should run this.

2:59:32Dr Mark ScialdoneWe could run the GC at all the different cannabis testing labs to correlate what we observe by NMR. That's all I'm saying. How much does it cost to run a sample through NMR? Typically, they're only like about $150 to $200 if you're doing sort of like non-cannabis, non-Schedule 1 variety material, if you're just extracting daisies or dandelions. It wouldn't be an exceeding expense at all. The real expense is sitting down with the scientists like me and interpreting all the data and understanding that the first experiment is just going to tell you what the gross mixture is going to look like.

3:00:15Dr Mark ScialdoneNow you need to probably go back and do five more experiments to really understand what it is that's going to create that link that you want to use to You know, the more readily, routinely testable, you know, correlation like GC or HPLC.

3:00:35SpeakerDo you have labs on the East Coast, Mark, right now that are using this equipment to test cannabis?

3:00:41Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's, again, all the major publications that require Characterization of cannabinoid compounds require NMR data, so I mean, Mishulam's, you know, has published...

3:00:56SpeakerHe's a long way away.

3:00:57Dr Mark ScialdoneHe's inaccessible to anybody in America, bro. Certainly, like, work that was done by the medical school at... In, or not the medical school, the grow down in Mississippi.

3:01:09SpeakerHold on, again, a government funded, hold on. So this is the reality of what you're reading compared to what's practical. Because out here in the real world where we're trying to test stuff and get data, we can't afford this equipment. And no one that can afford this equipment is risking their ass to let people like producers and Tony and everyone else walk in with their cannabis samples, pay $100, and risk the whole fucking lab over it.

3:01:32SpeakerAnd I don't know of any labs on the East Coast using the equipment that you mentioned making these tests available to the cannabis industry. That said, we're using what we can deal with right now, which is actually the base of where all this is coming from. Now, you can't compare steep hill labs to the Israeli government Running, you know, given the guy that literally found fucking THC in 63, you know, carte blanche to do whatever he wants to do, or a Solis lab in Mississippi, which has been growing weed under the fucking rule of the United States government since, what, the late 60s?

3:02:08SpeakerI mean, this is not really practical in real applications. No, that's why the question was about terpenes, because if we isolate, like, the terpene sports could get serious if Madonna grabs one of Tony's terp vials and gets serious. Instantly, there's not enough terpenes for a whole different regime that just goes, I like this, I'm going to spread it all over my bedroom, my bedroom cost me $50,000.

3:02:32SpeakerLike, that demographic. So that's kind of why we're Tony's like, is it oxidized? Is it not oxidized? You ain't charging $10,000 for this if it's oxidized. Goes to Mark's world where I get it. THC basically has to step away from the vial in order for us to get the kind of data to justify the kind of money. Perfume, which cannabis is a wonderful producer of a very small amount of unique perfumes mixed.

3:02:58SpeakerIn the real world, like, there are so many people that pay ridiculous amounts for amber gristle, like whale blubber, like, and there's so many other things in this world that are worth a lot of money due to their rarity, and when we get to cross over, it may not be with THC, and that's kind of why I'm like, what kind of data would justify the money?

3:03:17Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, Todd, if I could answer your question again, if your question is, what labs can you find that are doing Thank you so much for joining us.

3:03:46Ryan Dank AfThere's one group that's done it, and that's Arno in Leiden, and it's not, he's not, again, like I said earlier, he doesn't use that, he uses GCFID. So, I'm not saying it's not possible.

3:03:58Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're doing some work with, and I guess Kat's had her bag, with a Colorado University, a state university in Colorado, you can figure out maybe which one it is. It's one that I have a history with, and it's one that, again, I've, There's some stuff out on the internet that showed that we looked at using NMR to do cannabis concentrate analysis. We actually cited Arno's work, which is, again, very, very important.

3:04:27Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm just going to go back to the idea of establishing a standard operating procedure. When you do that, you'll want to use all the tools available to make sure that you can spec that material. NMR, again, you would not want to turn a blind eye to it if it's something that you could readily have access to. Maybe in the future things will be a little bit different, Todd, but maybe again now that University labs which are funded by federal grants that require that you have a Schedule I license if you handle these kinds of materials are in a difficult spot.

3:05:04SpeakerCan I just point out this is why I think all of the labs doing cannabis testing in a public environment like C-Pill and otherwise should be really given a lot of credit because they are as much trying to be activists in their field as they could be on any level. They're risking themselves in ways that other scientists were not willing to risk themselves And I know that someday this is all going to work out and be different, but right now, the people that are doing the scientific testing are on the front lines.

3:05:33Ryan Dank AfYeah, and they're collecting data and putting data where nobody else is doing. You know, and again, I understand what you're saying, Mark. I'm not trying to talk down or talk smack about it at NMR or CNMR. I understand that they're both valuable techniques. I question the need for Tony to be doing that when he's just trying to put some terpene data on his products. And understand what's going on in this process.

3:05:55TonyYeah, so what do you feel, now that you said that, and one thing I want to back up, I actually personally know firsthand that Mark actually has tested at least over 10 samples that I saw years ago of different people's concentrates in the industry. And Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

3:06:48TonyJazzed about was in Jamaica at UE when they have a proton NMR with a mass spec together. I just like, I just find it, I think it's just an extensive data tool that can match the other data that you have to validate something. Because right now you say that steep hill is wrong and we should use SC. So the only way to say that they're wrong is to have something that you can compare to.

3:07:17TonyAnd so, where are they wrong?

3:07:20Ryan Dank AfI'm not saying that they're wrong. Well, whatever, I am saying that they're wrong because we did a bunch of ring tests. That's not what I was saying there, but I'll say it now. I was working with a group, we did a bunch of ring tests, and Steve Hill misidentified a bunch of peaks, so they were wrong. We did test our lab against SC and Workshop and Steve Hill, and Steve Hill missed some peaks.

3:07:43Ryan Dank AfIt's not... Okay, so they did make some mistakes. But the thing I'm really saying, Tony, is that I don't like the way they present their data. They leave about 60% of the data off your... I agree.

3:07:56Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's because it's chromatography. It's listening to an orchestra one instrument at a time.

3:08:03Ryan Dank AfNo, that's not chromatography. I'm sorry. It's not because it's chromatography. SC uses the same machinery, and they provide all the data. So it's not because it's the fucking...

3:08:13TonySo what is it then, in your opinion?

3:08:15Ryan Dank AfIt's that their lab report doesn't reflect, go look at their lab, if you look at your lab reports from them, even on your webpage, you've got, if you see, here, let me go to the webpage, you see, like Gorilla Glue, for example, at the top, they've got 10, 10 terpenes, okay?

3:08:32TonyYep.

3:08:33Ryan Dank AfBut roll down, so you've got one down at the bottom, or maybe you don't, no you didn't, I went actually to SC's webpage. If you go to SC's webpage, you look at their terpene data, they've got over 30.

3:08:45Ryan Dank AfYou could have those terpenes in your sample, but because of the way that Halent, Steep Hill, gives their lab report, you don't see it. That information isn't given to you. So that's one problem. The second problem is when you look at known varieties, Halent mischaracterizes what the variety looks like. Right, like a variety, a cultivar, like a specific clone has a strain fingerprint. Like it doesn't really matter how it's grown.

3:09:14Ryan Dank AfYou might increase or decrease the overall terpene content of the flower. But for the most part, it's pretty stable. Okay? And so when you start looking at analysis of that cultivar done at one lab, it should also look at the same in another lab. And when you, for some reason, when it comes out of steep hills results, it has spikes that aren't there, or they misidentify peaks.

3:09:38Ryan Dank AfSo I just don't like it. I don't like the way they do it. It makes me question all their, it makes me question their work, right? That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to look at your data and understand what's going on with You know, with the variety. But when I look at a variety and I see, oh wait, it's pining dominant. It's pining dominant and pining should only be there in a minor fraction.

3:09:59Ryan Dank AfEither the variety is misnamed or there's a problem in the analysis, right?

3:10:04TonyI can tell you that I'm pretty honest about different varieties like I was the lemonfish.

3:10:11Ryan Dank AfI'm not trying to criticize you. I believe you.

3:10:15TonyI'm telling you that the variety that's presented to me in flour is what was presented to them. That's why about maybe ten half-churches ago I asked the question, when you guys were talking about genetic fingerprints, and I was going deep into genetics, and then I was asking you, is it important to also map the terpenes paired with those particular cultivar genetics as you're characterizing them in what Rob Clark and their project was promoting?

3:10:45TonyWith Sam, the skunk man was asking for different meetings and you were talking about analyzing these different genetics and getting them into a database. That's why I was asking about the terpene profiles because I felt that it's just like this is a new thing, everyone's getting used to it, so if everybody's using the same equipment, how can you standardize that analysis so that people...

3:11:11Ryan Dank AfSo what you're talking about is something called the metabolome, okay? So plants make secondary metabolites. Their secondary metabolites are chemicals that are produced by the plant that aren't directly involved in the plant living. They usually confer like Some type of biological resistance or, you know, anti-feedant. They're, you know, semi-chemicals that make bugs not want to eat the plant. You know, stuff like that, okay? So that group of metabolites we refer to as the metabolome, just like the genome is the collection of all the genes or the proteome is the collection of all the proteins in the plant, the metabolome is essentially also a fingerprint of what's in the plant.

3:11:55Ryan Dank AfAnd my good friend Mark Lewis used to say that the metabolome essentially reflects the genome. It's a reflection of what the genome is saying to be produced, okay? So you can actually look at plants by what they call metabolic fingerprints. It's a fingerprint that represents...

3:12:18Ryan Dank AfYou know, the secondary metabolites that are produced in the plant. And that's what essentially we're doing when we're looking at a combination of GC for terps and HPLC for cannabinoids. You're looking at the metabolic fingerprint of the plant. And NMR. And NMR too, but it's not being done with NMR. You can use NMR, but nobody is using NMR to characterize the cannabis.

3:12:42Dr Mark ScialdoneLook at the review I just posted in the chat, my friend.

3:12:46Ryan Dank AfOkay, so how many varieties have they done?

3:12:51Dr Mark ScialdonePeople use it. It's a tool widely used in the industry. Yeah, I know. It's like the cannabis thing, and everyone uses NMR.

3:12:59TonyLet me ask this question then, Panera. So let me ask you this. What's wrong with using a proton NMR besides what Todd was saying, the access part? Let's just say we could access it, all right? Provision walls are down. And we have free access to it. What's wrong with it?

3:13:16Ryan Dank AfI'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. What I'm saying is the guy that Mark keeps quoting, who's Arno Hoskamp, he's a good friend of mine, I've been to his lab, I've seen him, he has all the machines to do GCFID, HPLC for cannabinoids, and multiple NMR machines that they use for characterizing compounds and checking purity. But even though the machine sits there in his lab, he doesn't use NMR to characterize cannabis varieties.

3:13:50Ryan Dank AfRight? So that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm saying nobody does do it.

3:13:54SpeakerNow, does he consider terpenes a part of characterizing cannabis varieties, or is that in his mindset not valuable?

3:14:01Ryan Dank AfYes, he does.

3:14:03SpeakerOkay. No, that's one of the most things where I'm like, there's room for a future world when money gets involved. So if these vials become... An investor goes, I got $2 million, we're going to go to Uruguay and we're going to ship the terpenes back. It becomes a big deal to validate the standards because he might be trying to fight off an industry of people stuffing weed in their Thank you for watching.

3:14:48Ryan Dank AfAnd that's what Tony's trying to do. That's exactly what he's trying to do. Ideally, you'd probably legally have to have some kind of thing on the label that said 0% cannabinoids in this mixture, just like they do with hemp food. It has to be analyzed down to a certain THC content, and then you have a breakdown of what's in the product. It's not too much to ask, and HPLC and GCFID does it both, right?

3:15:17Ryan Dank AfYou can go to Steep Hill in California. You can go to SC Labs in California, and for about $100, they'll give you both the terpene and the cannabinoid assay on a sample. That's pretty good. It's a pretty reasonable price, and it's pretty accurate characterization. So...

3:15:37TonySo... Okay, so that's exactly why I'm doing that. So, molecularly speaking, because this is an interesting discussion, I know Mark and I have always talked about this, and at the end of the day, when law enforcement seizes product that they allegedly feel is illegal and information is presented back, this is, well, actually, what's illegal about it? Prove it. There's no way to prove those molecules are derived.

3:16:15Ryan Dank AfNo, I think the only thing that they would try to say is that you're claiming that it's derived from cannabis, therefore it's illegal. But technically, if they're analyzing the sample and trying to say what's illegal in it, they're going to be boned, right? Because there is nothing illegal about it. Terpenes are on the grass list. And for people that don't know what the grass list is, it's an acronym for generally recognized as safe.

3:16:37Ryan Dank AfAnd essentially terpenes are on the grass list. They're generally recognized as safe. They can be put into food products and cosmetics.

3:16:46TonySo that's what it comes down to is claimage. And, you know, that's a lot of people ask. And if you, you know, read everything we have, it's written a certain way. A cultivar is a plant. You know, that's as far as I can go. But the claims, like with the FDA, with their claims on CBD, and that's really what it comes down to, is like if you're selling hemp products or hemp crystal or hemp CBD or any CBD products and you make the claim that it can do X, Y, and Z for health or cancer or seizures, that's what that whole thing was that went around.

3:17:22Ryan Dank AfExactly. And Jamara... This is the big myth that everybody said, you know, the FDA stepped in and they've made CBD illegal. You can't have CBD. It's not illegal. You can have CBD. You can have it in all the products just like you could. You just can't say it's good for epilepsy, it's good for inflammation, it's good for Dravet syndrome or all these kind of things. It's like...

3:17:45Ryan Dank AfThat's what the FDA does. They step in and they protect people and society from people that are trying to make, they're essentially snake oil salesmen making claims about products that they haven't shown to be true. Right?

3:17:58SpeakerChimera, are, uh, karyophylline oxide, is that on the grass list?

3:18:06Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know. Yes. Yes, it is. Hold on. It's a component of several things that are on the grass list, like mint oil. Many mint oils are on the grass list, and they contain both caryophylline and caryophylline oxide, humuline and humuline oxide. Yeah, he's right. It is.

3:18:30Ryan Dank AfIt's kind of nasty. Yeah, well, a lot of them smell nasty, but really what it comes down to is safety or toxicology, right? Like how toxic is the substance to the body?

3:18:43SpeakerYeah, and usually when something smells nasty, I assume it is nasty.

3:18:49Dr Mark ScialdoneBeer is on the grass list, okay? So there you go. Tells you how safe what's on the grass list is really.

3:18:57TonyWell, I can also tell you that in the future I'm working on other stuff that's not these cultivar-based. They're going to be other plant-based. So I'm just kind of experimenting now with other plants with this tech that I've been using. And I think you guys, I think you guys would be pleasantly surprised in some of the things that I'm going to do.

3:19:19SpeakerTony, keep your eyes open because the cool season plants that are flowering right now, like I spend so much time in fucking strip mall parking lots going, I wonder how I could get five pounds of this because I know, I know it, it's just when you realize how much regular flowers would take to equal cannabis like in a pound, you gotta raid strip malls to get different superly awesome ornamental floral terpene profiles.

3:19:50SpeakerOn the cheap, on the cheap.

3:19:52TonyYeah, no, I agree. Because it was the conversation that you actually talked about when this first started a long, long past church ago when we were talking about it and you were saying that your background was from your mom being a florist and how they were able to preserve flowers and fragrances and the way you came about extracting your terpenes is very unique and based from the experience from your mom, which was cool.

3:20:20TonyAnd then later after the whole, you know, okay, we've got cannabis, terpenes, and what I felt was a more stable, safer product, then I started thinking, well, man, this would be cool to do lavender, Roman chamomile, all the other essentials that I use in my topicals. And so now I'm just more fascinated by other plants as you're getting into essential oils and different things. And you're just like, dude, this is like,

3:20:49SpeakerThink of the grade of quality you're extracting. Think of the grade of quality you're extracting compared to what you buy and is impossible to clean up. I think most essential oils out there are the oxide version and that's what the common norm is because when I got into garlic and how can you capture allicin because it's as powerful as chlorine and then they talked about that it was only when it was crushed that the two chemicals mixed and I'm like you mean like when The heads are separate and microencapsulated.

3:21:21SpeakerAll the limonene could be dominant in the 45 and all the myrcene could shift and be more present in the fuller head, wherever it produces. But if you extracted them separately, you would have different profiles. But if we extract them all at once and they react, you may get a third terpene reaction. So... Thank you for watching.

3:22:01SpeakerThank you for watching.

3:22:24Ryan Dank AfIt's not that in this gland, this stage of maturity of the gland that it produces this compound. It's a genetic signal. It's a characteristic of the variety. And that's why varieties are pretty much stable, whether you grow them in one environment or another. You might see these minor shifts in terpene peaks, but the overall fingerprint is the same.

3:22:46SpeakerOkay, now it goes back to that boring question. I ask about veg terps because if They're not a part of the maturation flowers. Wait a second.

3:22:53Ryan Dank AfThink about what you're asking, okay? Veg Terps typically do not produce a lot of stocked glandular trichomes. They produce sessile trichomes, and sessile trichomes actually do have a different terpene profile. They're much more sesquiterpene-based than monoterpene-rich, like the flowers are.

3:23:14SpeakerBecause I thought I can grow a greenhouse of veg plants if they only stink to draw in my neighbors when they flower. If I get strains that are heavily dominant in unique terpenes when they're in veg and I perpetually harvest those, I would have a different medical potential profile that I could concentrate enough to dab. So I can do a 20 by 40 of veg plants and perpetually harvest them.

3:23:36SpeakerIf I do a 20 by 40 and one thing flowers, uh, Every animal plus people is going to be in my yard in 25 minutes.

3:23:50Ryan Dank AfWe lost your ratio.

3:23:52BubblemanYeah, he just started going on mute. Oh, he's muted. He got muted accidentally.

3:23:58SpeakerI muted myself and then I'm talking and my tab keeps muting me. It's me being twitchy.

3:24:04BubblemanNo problem. It just happened like five seconds ago.

3:24:07SpeakerCBD, CBD.

3:24:12BubblemanCBD. There's already the video up in the Hash Church group of Tony Drew.

3:24:17TonyI just saw that. That's what I was just looking at. That's so funny that they caught me drooling.

3:24:22Etienne FontanThey memed you already, huh? Let me tell you this, though.

3:24:27TonyIt's time for you guys to do a bong rip triple dip because I did three triple dips this entire time in the background while talking about testing and a quadruple dip just the last one. So

3:24:42BubblemanAll right, I'm going to go first in the Red Congolese. That's going to be my first dip.

3:24:54SpeakerI'm going to do the Grillscope Cookies.

3:25:00SpeakerFirst dip. I have the little pipetter going now. It makes it a little bit easier.

3:25:04BubblemanSpicy Red Congolese.

3:25:07SpeakerNext up. What terpenes are in the red Congolese? I like that one. I'm going to put Congolese Sif on here. Don, you need to get these. I know. I have this, okay? So I'm almost there. This is for taking all my samples.

3:25:27Ryan Dank AfMan, you guys need micropipettes. Those are way too big.

3:25:31SpeakerFine. Someone send me some.

3:25:35BubblemanStrawberry Mine Warp.

3:25:39SpeakerJohn Warped hit right there. Here we go.

3:25:41BubblemanAnd Af Gooey. That's my triple dip.

3:25:45SpeakerOh, I've got to add something to this. Have some rosin. I'll triple dip the other way. I'll do Blueberry Terps times Comatose Butter times Bubba Kush Live Resin Shatter.

3:26:04TonyThat's a long valley. Tips away. Push. Some F goo.

3:26:12TonySome dog goo.

3:26:15BubblemanTaking more rosin, too.

3:26:18TonyYeah, I'm scraping some up, too.

3:26:21BubblemanYou see this rosin, Tony, from the West Coast Cosmetic Request?

3:26:24TonyThat's amazing. That is like actually when I'm thinking about coming on 420. That's one of the number ones.

3:26:38TonyThe reasons that keep pushing me back to just get me a ticket for 420 for getting over is that, to be honest. I have to go to Canada to try it. It looks that good. It'll be great to see you, Tony. Watch Ripple again. This is what I really want.

3:27:10TonyWow!

3:27:15BubblemanThat was just triple.

3:27:20SpeakerHome load. Holy Christ.

3:27:29Etienne FontanWoo!

3:27:30TonyGot it for home, damn it.

3:27:37SpeakerI tried that Red Congo when I was down in Cali.

3:27:44TonyIt's really, really similar to the one that we've got here.

3:28:04Ryan Dank AfDid the turps come out relatively true to taste?

3:28:08TonyOh, the turps come out right on the flour.

3:28:13TonyThe Red Congo is definitely, I would say it's definitely a house favorite. The other one that's amazing, but the flour is really expensive, the strawberry banana goo. That one That one's incredible. But some of these flowers, you know, they're just not, they're just like in anything else. You either get like a really, really good yield or you don't. And it's nothing that I'm doing differently. It's just the way, the way the system is and the way flowers are, you know.

3:28:51BubblemanI heard you were getting $20,000 per pound from those things.

3:28:57SpeakerAnd how true are the terpenes once they've been extracted and you've got a vial to the original herbal smell? In other words, do the majority of them smell pretty much like it, or is there quite a difference, or how do you feel?

3:29:19TonyI feel that... So there's, you know, there's giving a take there. It's like, it's not, to me, I feel it's very, very, very, like someone gives you a flower and you smell it, you break it up. I feel like in many cases the overall smells a lot more than the flower. In some cases, like I'd say in the tangy, as an example, that particular flower is like putting off, you know, certain type of airborne terpenes or I don't know if the monoterpenes are just like coming off that plant and breaking down, but even when you run that in water, where you run that plant in a hydrocarbon, they seem to bind better in hydrocarbon than they do in water, and they seem to be, in my opinion, better as a flower than, say, maybe the straight terpene.

3:30:14TonyBut in most cases, they are very reflective of the particular flower. In some cases, it's more. It's a lot stronger. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:30:45SpeakerNot only that, but I have one question for you. Is Blue Dream a good yielder of terpenes? Because if it is, it's going to take over the cannabis universe.

3:30:58TonyWell, something's happened with Blue Dream lately. It used to be a really big popular strain out here, big yielder and what have you. But a lot of the growers, it's kind of like one of those strains now that people don't want to grow it. And people don't want to like it. It's kind of, it's still like, you almost get shamed on. I don't know if that team would agree with me in California, but like Blue Dream, you're like, there's just that line in the sand now.

3:31:28TonyIt seems like growers don't want to grow it. People don't want to be caught growing it. You don't want to be caught smoking it because it's just not cool anymore.

3:31:34Etienne FontanIt's been that way, it's typical, and it's been that way for the last couple of generations since I'm almost 17 years doing this. Yeah, it was that way with different strains, it's just now Blue Dream is the one for some reason, and it'll be something else next time around where everybody finally gets it, and I credit that we've actually... Thank you for watching.

3:32:15Etienne FontanEveryone's got it. So it's in cycles. It'll continue in cycles until the market is there and people are aware. Nomenclature is consistent with an actual varietal as opposed to still a guessing game of is this genetic truly blue dream versus is this what this is. That's what we're working and looking at with science and that's why we started the science and that's why we'll continue the science because that will tell us and teach us everything.

3:32:42Ryan Dank AfThere's a couple of different Blue Dream clones as well that float around California. The more prominent one is Myrcene Rich, but there is also one that's pinene dominant.

3:32:52Etienne FontanBut the same thing with M39, the same thing happened with Calio, the same thing happened with various other genetics. It's just... Somehow happens that way that there's various cuttings or somebody says it's this and then it really isn't this but somehow it gets named this but we don't really know because we didn't have an actual starting phenotype breakdown. Maybe you did with those particular genetics but I mean I've heard things that even say like train wreck itself is just an older strain that's just been completely renamed just with the name train wreck and now it's so pervasive through the nomenclature and Thank you for joining us.

3:33:45Etienne FontanI think I know him too.

3:34:15Ryan Dank AfWhen you breed plants, though, you get variation in the terpene content, even if you're breeding within the family. Blue Dreams that I collected and we analyzed through the lab, they definitely had the fingerprint of siblings, right? You could tell that they were related. They essentially had the same suite of terpenes, they were just in a different order of what was produced.

3:34:39SpeakerAnd before people were making hybrids, which could be similar but also be quite different. Now they sell populations and those can be siblings that are very close.

3:34:55BubblemanDon't you guys also think, though, that the way other aromatherapeutic plants that produce glandular trichomes that secrete essential oils seem to produce better in certain regions, at certain altitudes, that it could be the same way for cannabis? I assume so, yes. What do you think of that, Chimera?

3:35:15Ryan Dank AfYeah, I mean, definitely there's a whole range of different types of genetics and, you know, some genetics are going to produce better in some regions than others. I think there's definitely a lot less variety in things like lavender than there is in cannabis. So you might be able to say more easily with lavender, yeah, at this location, this altitude, it's best. But with cannabis, you're going to find that You know, one produces better here and one produces better there.

3:35:44Ryan Dank AfYeah. Down to what's the best season. You know, what has the best season, which is just like wine, really.

3:35:50BubblemanTrue enough, true enough.

3:35:54Ryan Dank AfSo, but there's a lot to do, a lot of, you know, once we start defining what varieties are and then people have access to all these different things, then you'll be able to see, oh, look, this Congolese grows best down in, you know, wherever, somewhere a little more humid or somewhere a little more dry.

3:36:11SpeakerI figured it out with math and 60 square miles of cannabis grown on agricultural rich land would supply all the herbal and hashish smokers in America for a year.

3:36:31BubblemanI love that you did that math.

3:36:34SpeakerWell, I want to see how much land to buy.

3:36:41BubblemanOh, shit.

3:36:42Ryan Dank AfWell, we all know all the farmland in the United States is really owned by about seven families, so, or at least all the good stuff, the big chunks of good land.

3:36:51Etienne FontanAnd sitting in land banks.

3:36:52Ryan Dank AfYeah. Good luck trying to get any significant chunk of farmland at this point in time.

3:36:59SpeakerNo, but you can contract grow it.

3:37:03Ryan Dank AfYeah, you can.

3:37:04SpeakerThat's for sure.

3:37:06Ryan Dank AfThat's the way it's done nowadays.

3:37:10Ryan Dank AfYeah, if anybody hasn't gone down to California and seen the huge agriculture along the I-5 Central Valley or Watsonville and Castroville, all these places, man, everybody needs to go and check it out. It really is incredible.

3:37:25Ryan Dank AfAll the way down the state, really.

3:37:27BubblemanDefinitely growing some serious amounts of stuff down there.

3:37:51SpeakerI'm going to call it a day and go take a drive. It's beautiful where I am and I hope everybody has a beautiful Sunday. It was nice having a conversation with everybody today. It was fucking great and much love. See you guys next time.

3:38:12SpeakerIt's a gorgeous day out here in the valley. It's like sunny out and beautiful.

3:38:18BubblemanIt's a pretty nice day out here too. I'm thinking of going and flying my drone around Vancouver and getting arrested. Yeah, you know what? I called the police the other day and was like, where can I fucking fly this thing? And they were like, oh, let's ask the sergeant. And he's, you know, she's gone for 15 minutes and then she comes back and she's like, You know, he really doesn't know other than try to stay like more than nine kilometers away from an airport, and she was like, just go to a park.

3:38:52BubblemanBut of course the park John and I went to the other day is between an airport landing strip on the water and a military base where military Sikorsky helicopters were taking off and flying around the park, so. Both not good spots to be flying a drone.

3:39:11TonyLet me get this straight.

3:39:14BubblemanYou and John were doing this? Yeah, we went out to Stanley Park to film a little video and I brought the drone. I have beautiful fun flying it over Stanley Park, over the water, but it's like I can't ever post it because it will incriminate me.

3:39:29SpeakerIt was really awesome and I'm like, you know, he's like, yeah, this lady, she got this $100,000 drone with cameras attached to it and I'm like, well, she's got this $100,000 drone with like, you know, all this crazy shit to it. How come we don't see them anywhere? And we're like, Mark's like, well, you know, she Googled us.

3:39:45BubblemanAnd maybe we should Google this. Oh, right. No fly zone. The entire city of Vancouver. Luckily, where I live, I can fly no problem. Luckily.

3:39:58SpeakerIf we would have gone to the beach and did it there, we would have got arrested, dude. Because we were on our way to the beach. That was our next stop with the drone. You know, that would have been a little bit too public at that point.

3:40:08BubblemanYeah, it sure mucked up the video. I'll tell you that much.

3:40:11SpeakerYou know, when it was an accident, there was no harm done in...

3:40:17BubblemanRegardless, it's a fun little thing. I've yet to be able to do full melt deliveries with drones. You know, you just put the little gram in there and put the little address in and your full melt is like hovering outside your window.

3:40:31SpeakerOkay, I was on the Vedder Mountain yesterday and that drone would look so amazing. You would be able to see so far in the valley, Chilliwack Lake to the U.S., everything, Mount Baker. It would be amazing. You could fly there. Mount Baker.

3:40:47BubblemanYeah, how far is it from the airport in, where is it, Chilliwack?

3:40:52SpeakerMountain Vedder, it's near Cultus Lake, it's for four miles and stuff like that, it's like off.

3:40:58BubblemanIs there a little airstrip landing near Cultus Lake though?

3:41:02SpeakerNo. That's the thing I got to keep in mind. I don't think it's nine kilometers, I don't know. We can get away with it.

3:41:11BubblemanYeah, I want to make sure that I don't do anything silly with it. I just wanted to get it to you. Bring a new, unique perspective to Bubble Man's world when filming videos. I was thinking one thing, and now I realize, shit, you've got to get permission to fly this thing pretty much anywhere cool. Otherwise, you've got to go out into the mountains, which is also very cool.

3:41:32BubblemanAnyway, guys, I think I'm also ready to call it a day here on Hash Church 80. 80 weeks in a row is pretty ridiculous. I think it's almost the day that my son is 80 weeks old. I must start his Hash Church. Like the day he was born or something. Interesting. I thank you all for coming. Chimera, much appreciated. And Tantien, Skunkman Sam, Horatio, Johnny B, and Mark Scaldone.

3:41:59BubblemanTony Verzura, we had D420K in earlier, and we had, oh, I can't even remember. Well, obviously, Todd, and probably some other people that I'm forgetting. Oh, yeah, Dana Larson came in and chatted with us. Thanks, everyone, for coming in, and we will see you next week for episode 81.

3:42:17Dr Mark ScialdoneHappy birthday, Mark.

3:42:20BubblemanHappy belated birthday. Happy belated birthday there, Mark.

3:42:23SpeakerHappy birthday, dude.

3:42:25BubblemanYeah, it was a good fun day. Hung out with the boy, sent the wife to the spa. That's how you do a birthday. Right there. Awesome. Have a good one, guys. Take care.