Cannabis and Ayahuasca: Bridging Cultures and Healing

0:01BubblemanAnd just like that, we are live. Hash Church episode 133. Welcome, everybody. I hope you're having a wonderful Sunday morning, perhaps a Sunday afternoon if you are on the East Coast, and perhaps a Sunday evening if you are located somewhere in Europe. I do welcome all of you from all around the world. And of course, as always, I'm going to send out the links to our panelists.

0:29BubblemanSend out the links via Facebook. Good morning, good morning, good morning. Yes, nice to see everyone in chat. We've already got a couple hundred people watching in chat at 9 o'clock before 9.01. That's pretty awesome. That tells me that a lot of you are waiting, and I like that. I like that you're waiting for Hash Church to go live.

0:48Etienne FontanAll right, so I just sent the link. Let's hope that that works.

0:51BubblemanSometimes when it doesn't work, when I don't see ATN right, right away, I think, oh, maybe the link's not working, but... I do see you there, Etienne.

1:01Etienne FontanHello, sir. How are you?

1:02BubblemanI'm doing very well. How about yourself?

1:05Etienne FontanSo far, so good. Another beautiful day in paradise. Good morning, doctor. Hey, what's up, guys? Hard to believe it's been 133 episodes already.

1:13BubblemanHey, that was kind of cool. You said the Bugs Bunny thing, but without the doc. You were like, hey, what's up? I honestly thought you were going to say doc, but that's cool. Welcome, Dr. Mark. Welcome, Etienne. Welcome, Johnny B. Welcome, Mr. B.

1:30DrMorning, guys.

1:31BubblemanYeah, the chat has literally been going on for several hours right now, the YouTube chat. So they've been at it. I feel like I've been in the chat since 7 o'clock as well. We've got a decent episode for you today. I've got, I invited some, I know Dana Larson just got back from Calgary from his seed giving away. Last year of course he was arrested in Calgary so I thought I know that today from 12 o'clock till whenever they are basically going to be packing up these seeds for his huge multi-million seed giveaway that he's doing across Canada.

2:11BubblemanAnd so I invited Dana, I invited Chris Bennett, and I also invited Salome. Who throws the Cannabis Hemp Conference here in Vancouver that's actually going to be, I guess, in May, correct, Johnny B? May 6th and 7th at the Nest at UBC? It's going to be a good little event. I'm sure Johnny B's got a booth there. I have one as well. I'm speaking on an extraction panel.

2:36BubblemanI know Dr. Natasha is speaking and I went to the event last year and it was quite fun, quite good, good exposure. So we'll have Salome coming on to tell her, tell us a little bit about the event today, which, yeah, it happens in less than a month here. It's like three weeks away. So got to get the word out. Welcome, Sam.

2:59Etienne FontanSam. Sam's got a new mic, I hear. Oh, really?

3:04BubblemanI don't hear shit.

3:05Etienne FontanYeah, right?

3:07BubblemanI hear a lot of silence. But his mic is muted, so he could be... Oh, look, there's the hand. There's the hand.

3:16Etienne FontanThe hand that rocks the cannabis cradle. Yes, indeed, the hand that rocks the...

3:22BubblemanThe hand. Oh, that was such a great, that was like, I like that, dude. I'd wear a shirt of Sam's hand with the saying, the hand that rocks the cannabis cradle. He's just, well.

3:36Etienne FontanWell, he's done it for, I mean, hey, he brought us, many of us from our infancy in cannabis to where we are today, and we wouldn't be where we are without his genetics. So, thanks again, Sam. We love you.

3:47SpeakerThat's no problem. If I wouldn't have done it, somebody else, Chris, they wouldn't have been as handsome or charming, but...

3:56BubblemanListen, he was holding up his seed containers the other day. I had a Skype with him and Todd and D420K. And he's like, oh, yeah, this is, you know, this is what I put my seeds in or whatever. And Darren was just like, are you fucking kidding me? Darren's like, you know, I keep my seeds in this. And Sam's got the most ridiculous. Oh, there it is.

4:22BubblemanAs if he keeps his seeds in that, dude.

4:25SpeakerI do. It's a 50 kilo container. It's not a hundred I have.

4:30BubblemanShow that again. Show that again from a distance, please. So we can just get, yeah. So this is what he keeps his seeds in. Like, come on, dude. The chair would almost fit in there. Johnny B, just looking with desire. I want one of those.

4:44DrCan you feel that? Can you feel the want?

4:48Etienne FontanI was about to say, that should actually be sitting in the chair next to Sam.

4:52SpeakerWhat's really nice about it is I had a flood one time that completely flooded my seed collection three feet deep. Didn't matter. These things float.

5:04BubblemanThese things float. 150 kilo content. I just thought... Go ahead, John.

5:10DrI'm going to say, if you want to send a few this way, I'd definitely grow them out for Astro.

5:15SpeakerYeah, but the postage to send a few of these containers is fucking expensive.

5:19DrI'll pay for it. It's not a problem. It's on me. I'll pay for it for you.

5:25BubblemanOh, my God. When he pulled that thing out, he pulled one of those out the other day, and it had a little sticker on it. I'm like, what does that say? And he's like, oh, this one says haze. I'm like, my God. You have a 50-kilo container with a sticker on it that says Haze. It just made me humble. That's what it made me. I'm not going to lie.

5:50BubblemanIt made me realize.

5:50SpeakerThe seed producers, those who count their seeds, you know, 5, 10, whatever, and those who use a forklift.

6:01BubblemanExactly. That is the classic right there. I think it was Howard Marks who said that in the wonderful book, Mr. Nice. There are two types of dealers in this world. Those that need a forklift and those that don't. And then I would always sort of finish it off with, you know, sort of, you know you're big when you hear this. Beep. Beep. Beep. If you hear that when you're moving your stash, you are officially baller.

6:31BubblemanOr if you did a Pesola.

6:35BubblemanRight. Everyone's high school Pesola except mine was 7 grams and Sam's is 50 kilos.

6:43BubblemanYeah. All right. Of course you have a 50 kilo Pesola. Doesn't everyone?

6:49DrWe got to blow smoke. Where's the Vatican? We haven't blown smoke yet, guys. I'm just saying. You're late. I'm on it.

6:56BubblemanWell, I'm down. I'm down. Let's do this. Got some sift here.

7:00DrI'm lucky at Waking Bakes. I got a Waking Bake every day. I think Hash Church needs a Waking Bake.

7:05BubblemanWell, it's interesting that you'd say that because my Wake and Bake show is my latest, newest show. I've done it two days in a row so far. Today, really, this is my Wake and Bake. So today's Wake and Bake episode is Hash Church. So you never really miss an episode of Wake and Bake. And we've had fun doing them. I just do a little couple of puffs and get the chat going and talk to the people in the chat.

7:29BubblemanAnd it's been quite fun. So Wake and Bake. It's Bake.

7:34Etienne FontanHey, Dr. Scaldone has a guest.

7:37BubblemanAwesome. Hey, welcome.

7:39SpeakerWelcome to House Church. Yeah, I just walked over here. It was beautiful. Take your hat off. Take my hat off. Nobody cares what my hair looks like, right? Everyone remembers Lynn, right? Absolutely. Yeah, hi. We were at a party last night, and we realized we'd all been on the same show. Tatiana, I, and Mark. Right, and Kevin, right? Kevin McKernan was there. He was on a different show, but yeah, the same, but you guys.

8:11SpeakerYeah, we're in Boston at the CanMed conference, and we had a little bit of a hash church reunion last night at the reception.

8:21BubblemanThat's awesome, you guys. Good to see you. I saw Kevin posted a couple of videos of... I love when hash congregations meet up outside of hash church it's kind of a funny little experience.

8:54SpeakerYeah, there's a lot of brilliant people from all over the world here. People at this party last night about, you know, the amazing advances they're making with cannabis and healing people. And of course, it's being blocked by the drug war in so many ways, which I'm going to talk about the drug war. But, you know, there's amazing stories that people are telling. It's been really good. It's been really an interesting group.

9:24BubblemanIs anyone recording it for it to go live for us to be able to see it?

9:31SpeakerYeah, I think the talks are going to be recorded and then broadcast at a later date. And I think they're actually still selling tickets for online. I think you can see it. I think it's sold out. They said that the... Lecture hall fits 488 people and 500 people have signed up. So it's completely sold out on site, but I think you can still join online. Yeah, it's definitely sold out on site.

9:58SpeakerAnd next year in a double it, they're going to have 1,000 people.

10:01Etienne FontanAny interesting discussion points that y'all have come away with on this year?

10:07SpeakerWell, the conference starts tomorrow. So we just had a cocktail reception last night at... Kevin's brother lives, which is beautiful, set of apartments or condos sort of like on the waterfront in Boston. Beautiful, gorgeous. So it was really a nice picturesque. Very fancy. Yes, picturesque place to have a nice little cocktail reception. So we met Shulam's nephew, right? Did you not meet him last night? I'm not sure.

10:40SpeakerSo Raphael is not here, but he has a... I guess it's going to be chiming in with a video link.

10:49BubblemanVery cool. You know you're getting famous when people are stoked to meet your nephew.

10:55SpeakerHe was such a cool guy. He totally, in the context of what Raphael has done, totally gets it. I mean, he totally understood where Mishulam's place in history is. It's interesting, there were several Mishulam family members there last night. Yeah, and also I talked to people who knew people, the reason they got involved in the whole movement is they knew people whose children were suffering from different things that they can't get We're going to get the solution to, because it's being blocked, because cannabis is illegal, and they've become activists because of that, because they see the ravages of this drug war and what it's doing.

11:44SpeakerWe're going to help public safety, and they're actually doing the exact opposite with public safety. I spoke to several people like that, and one who's Thank you for joining us.

12:16BubblemanThe classic. I think that he should be thankful though that he's working on this at this time in life because I think it was even more ridiculous 20 to 30 years ago. They were just, they were blocking everything.

12:30SpeakerA police officer, a police officer, you know, and he sees how horrible it is. And he was arrested. He's arrested many, many people for marijuana, you know, so he's,

12:46SpeakerSo it's a gamut, you know, but it's some really prominent scientists and doctors and You know, people who are really making... And me. And Taki and me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Taki, like, what am I doing here? Rafi definitely supports medical cannabis. He's the godfather of the analytical pharmaceutical side of it. But at the same time, I've never seen Rafi support recreational cannabis ever.

13:18BubblemanHmm. Interesting. Well, I guess he's got his place that he's coming for. Hopefully, in his lifetime, he might find an experience that sees fit for him to try.

13:31SpeakerHe was in my greenhouse. We made a video there for a science program, and I guarantee he was offered absolutely anything he wanted, including 99.9% resin heads, but he had zero interest. Medically, yes. Recreationally, not at all. Well, if recreational means using cannabis to control anxiety, that's complete bullshit. He totally understands that cannabis is a way to control anxiety. We all have anxiety and we all have stress.

14:05SpeakerSo in a way, Rafael doesn't understand what he's saying when he doesn't support recreational cannabis. I doubt that's true. Every human being on the planet... Thank you so much for joining us.

14:34BubblemanYes, yes, it can absolutely relax, but not everyone. Some people get very, very anxious when they use cannabis. I want to take this moment as well to welcome Salome to the room.

14:45SalomeThank you so much. Thanks so much. Hi, everyone. So honored to be on a panel with so many experts.

14:54BubblemanYes, I gave a little bit of an explanation as to your event that you threw last year and the one that you're throwing here in the next three weeks at the University of British Columbia. If you want to maybe tell a little bit about it, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

15:09SalomeSure. Yeah, so thanks for giving me the platform to share on here. This is amazing. And I'm a transplant to the cannabis community, so it's always such an honor to be among the experts. This conference that's coming up on May 6th and 7th is the first one being held at UBC. Last year it was at the Westing Bay Shore and the prior year was at SFU. So another university opened their doors to us and this is huge, you know, at a time when things are shifting in Canada for the universities to open up.

15:44SalomeSo 50 experts from internationally and nationally are joining together. You're going to be one of them. Of course, Marcus, you'll be on the extraction and concentrate panel. And what would you like me to share? Do you want me to share the story of the inspiration for the conference or?

16:04BubblemanYeah, I mean, that's a pretty good story. You came from more of the psychedelic sort of background, did you not, before you got into cannabis?

16:12SalomeYeah, and I know you definitely have had your history with the mushrooms at a young age, and a lot of us have had, you know, we're seeds. We're seeds of these other plant medicines, and for me, I was in counseling. I wasn't in the cannabis industry, and in my first year, I was also doing work with ayahuasca, and just out of curiosity, I wondered if ATN has...

16:39SalomeEtienne, have you ever experienced ayahuasca? Have you sat in ayahuasca ceremonies?

16:44Etienne FontanI have not, but I have many friends who have. I've done other psychedelics, but not that one.

16:49SalomeOkay, yeah, I was curious. I was curious to your experience with it, but... Yeah, so some of us, of course, have had these experiences with entheogens and psychedelics. And my inspiration for the conference came through ayahuasca as well. I was assisting in ayahuasca ceremonies with people going through their traumas and helping them with integration, which is a big part of it. And then after a year of doing that, I kind of got guided into another organization that was doing another conference in Thank you.

17:21SalomeThank you.

17:31SalomeAnd after like a month of going and working with them, I had a meditation with cannabis. And many of us feel cannabis as a spirit and oftentimes as a feminine spirit. And that's how she came as well. And so she came in front of me and she was furious. And I've shared this story with you guys before, but it's nice to be able to share it with more of an audience.

17:57SalomeSo people, maybe some people can relate to this experience, but she came in front of me and she was furious and she said that she was tired of being abused, misused, misunderstood and prostituted. You know, this is cannabis's energy saying that she feels that she's been prostituted for so many years and now she wants respect and reverence. And so from that space on came the opening of the conference and I would go and meet with different people like Jody and Mark and you know everyone was so amazing and they said yes right off the bat when they heard the story and so the first conference was quite small it was 15 people and then it grew and last year there were 50 Thank you so much for joining us today.

18:44SalomeI'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here.

19:09SalomeAll the technology that's going on. But as far as the public, I felt like many, including myself, like I didn't know much about the cannabis industry or the community. So this is a great chance for people to come out there and to learn. And another part of this is, of course, the environmental impact. And Mark, just let me know where you want me to kind of pause in regards to that, too.

19:38BubblemanI'm muted. Oops. The conversation just flows, you know. We're just telling a little. I know you have some great speakers. I know last year, the first time I got to meet Dr. Lumiere, you had him speaking, and that was really cool to see him speak. You know, you might want to discuss a couple. You have quite a few local people from the community. I like the way you really covered the gamut of...

20:01BubblemanYou know making sure that both sides of that imaginary fence that we spoke about earlier which is the Health Canada fence which inevitably produces on one side and I'm sure Sam you've probably seen this pretty much your whole life because Sam was someone who knew many many years ago Salome that in order to get the work done that he wanted to get done without simply being arrested and ending up in jail was that he needed to do things through legal mechanisms that really kind of didn't exist on the planet Move to Amsterdam, started his own pharma company and started doing breeding work properly with export licenses that allowed him to ship and receive from other labs and doing like incredible lab work and spending a lot of his own money to get this work done.

20:46BubblemanIt's now coming to that point, you know, Thank you so much for joining us.

21:08BubblemanTo me, it's all access. Both sides are access, and we should never fight against access. This is why Todd fought for OMA. This is why Canada getting four plants for REC isn't the worst thing in the world. We shouldn't fight against it, but just simply fight for more. And so that's sort of... That's how I feel about it.

21:28SalomeAbsolutely. And so much respect for Skunk Man for doing that kind of work, you know, 30 years ago and, you know, setting up the stage for it right now. I feel like that momentum has to continue. You know what we talked about of standards of procedures and testing, like making sure all dispensaries have testing, make sure LPs have testing, so stuff like, you know, with what happened with Metrum doesn't repeat.

21:50SalomeBut at the same time, like we talked about it too, Mark, if we didn't have dispensaries and LPs and the Thank you so much for joining us.

22:12SalomeYou know, people who are just experts at growing to come and teach people. That's why there's a workshop at the conference. There's actually a growing workshop where people can plant their own seeds, you know, and take a plant home to normalize it. I know, John, you know, I appreciate you and your growing as well and the support in that.

22:37DrOh, the conference that you had last year. I mean, I did a presentation on the separation of hemp and stuff and I marked it and it was just the education with that type of conference that you guys did that was amazing. I truly loved it. It was, thank you. I'm sorry I can't make this one. I got to go to Calgary, but I'll watch it on Mark's channel.

22:56BubblemanAnd are you going to Calgary for court?

22:59DrNo, court is actually on 420. Okay, okay. What? Yeah, I'm scheduled for court on April 20th at 9.30 a.m. in Leduc for possession of marijuana. Are you going to that? Well, I've actually already faxed the Crown Prosecutor, John Lee, just so he knows, my license and everything to there, so hopefully they just drop the charges and they send me back my cannabis and my ball.

23:25BubblemanDude, how coincidental that on 420 you have court, but you can't go because you have to come celebrate 420 in Vancouver.

23:33DrI have a business. I have people. I got booze.

23:35BubblemanDude, it's reminiscent of standing with John Conroy in my own court case in like 99 or 98, whatever it was, and standing in front of the judge. And they're trying to pick a date. And the judge says, how would November 26th be, gentlemen? And then John Conroy's like, oh, no, November 26th is no good for me. I will be out of the country. And then he leans back into my ear and says, because I'll be at the cannabis cup with my client.

24:08BubblemanAnd we did. We went to the Cannabis Cup that year together. It was quite fun. Breeders Steve came with us as well. It was quite an adventure with John Conroy and Breeders Steve cruising the streets of Amsterdam. Never forget that stay at the Hotel Torren. Welcome D420K. Morning Darren. Just about to drink his coffee like I almost... Is my mic working?

24:32DrIt is today.

24:33SpeakerNo, we can't hear anything you say at all, dude. Right on. Thank you. Well, should we do the customary bong rip first thing in the morning or what? You know what?

24:42BubblemanWe're not doing that anymore. We all talked about it. Shut her down?

24:45SpeakerYeah, we're done.

24:46DrYou know what?

24:47SpeakerI'm going to be the first one, I guess, and do it anyways.

24:50Etienne FontanShut her down, he says. Come on, mother lovers. Let's do this shit. Let's do it. Everybody on three.

24:57DrOne, two, three. Bong rip. Bong rip.

25:03BubblemanYou know, that's about as dangerous as we get right there. That's about as intense as the Hash Church group gets. It's like the odd time you might have to see us smoking a bong rip, but I'll tell you, nothing but respect. I really am starting to earn a respect. I liked it in India. I don't know about you, Skunk Man Sam, when you hung out with the sadhus, but didn't you appreciate the little sort of prayers of positiveness that they said before they took their rip?

25:30BubblemanNot in a religious fashion, but more of a spiritual, just like, hey, just pray, just given props sort of thing. And I noticed that a lot of my Rastafarian friends do it as well. Just say a nice little positive message. I'm not a religious person, but I think that it's a nice thing to say something positive right before you have a little rip. So positive, positive rips for everyone.

25:52SalomeNice. Yeah. Great way to show reciprocity and gratitude for what this plant has done for us.

25:58Etienne FontanHey, but thank you, Salome, for actually stepping out of your comfort zone and organizing and making this a reality. Sorry, I can't make it this year, but hopefully next year I'll make it out. You're coming up, aren't you? No, I'm not able to make it this year, but hopefully next year. Yeah, definitely.

26:17SpeakerSomebody tell me what's happening.

26:20Etienne FontanWhat are you doing? She's doing a great event. Salome's throwing this awesome event in Canada. In Canada? When and where?

26:28SalomeIt's May 6th and 7th. It's right here in Vancouver. It's kind of a reunion for like Breeder Steve is going to be there. John Conroy is going to be speaking as well. So Marcus, you'll have a reunion right there. And ATN this year, of course, we would be honored to have you. I know you're going to be at a different event and we'd love to have you as well.

26:49SalomeThe speakers lineup is amazing, around 53 speakers this year.

26:54SpeakerWow. That would be interesting. I loved hearing everything that the people had to say at every one of those events. It's incredible. Very knowledgeable stuff.

27:06BubblemanIt's a great time, in my opinion. There's the experience of the booths and the speakers and all of that, and I find that just killer. I like to record as much of it as I can, but really the magic lies in the relationships that are created at those events. And the people that you meet and the connections that you make and the sort of sprouts that occur, you know, from each one of these events.

27:29BubblemanAnd so that's really the key for me. At this point in time, after 20 plus years of going to them, it's not quite as much as making sure that it pays me out at the end of the event, if I paid for a booth, if I'm selling a product. But it's really, it can be as simple as meeting a single person. And so often when I go to these events, I keep that open in my mind that I'm not there to just try and oversell my product, but I'm actually there to meet that key one person that I know it won't be an accident and it won't be something that I miss.

28:00BubblemanIt usually happens through the coincidence or through coincidence. Where I'll see someone, something happens, another thing, another time, finally it's like, I'm supposed to meet you. And then we'll end up, you know, in a private hotel room hitting some rips or something on the deck. And I just think it's great.

28:18SalomeSo true. It's so true. It's priceless. Definitely. And I feel like that's the whole thing. Like we're all kind of getting into the dirt together and then who knows like what kind of hybrid situation will come out of it and new ideas and new formations. And I you know for some of you guys like you've been in the field for so many years and there's been enough like and we talked about this too like people who are doing activist work or doing um like even for therapists and things like that we need to have a profit like this kind of work needs to be able to be sustainable and to go forward and so having that in mind but also hey like it's time to give back it's time to pay it forward and I feel like I've shared this with you guys too before, but there's a big connection between Brazil and Canada with this conference.

29:12SalomeI was able to go into Brazil last November for the World Ayahuasca Conference, and I didn't know I was there for a conference, kind of like what you were saying, like things come out of certain events. Before I knew it, I was going into the jungle to meet with the Yawanawa, who are these indigenous tribes who live in the Amazon. And so after a two-day journey, one day just on the river, we finally get to their tribes.

29:36SalomeAnd I didn't know what I was doing there, but soon enough, there was kind of guidance, the intuitive feel that I was there because the Yawanawa have a secret of how to save the Amazon. And so I was like, okay, here we go. And I thought maybe it's a shaman, maybe it's a song. And before, you know, before the last day, the shaman in the village said, do you want to see our sacred tree?

30:04SalomeAnd I was like, okay, yeah, of course, let's go. And so I was like, really, I want to see the sacred tree. That's awesome. And so, you know, the kids and the elders, everyone got into the boats and we went across the river to this site and they had this massive, massive tree, kind of like Avatar, called the Sama'uma tree. And yeah, and this is the site where the Iwanawa sit underneath this tree and have their ayahuasca ceremonies.

30:39SalomeAnd they say that they receive guidance directly from this tree. Wow.

30:46BubblemanThat's incredible. They all go there and eat ayahuasca with the shaman?

30:51SalomeThey drink ayahuasca and they receive the healing. They receive the guidance. They receive what they need to do to be able to go forward with their traditions and their songs. They receive the songs. So, you know, I was in Brazil and I came back and I thought, okay, like, again, what is this link between cannabis and ayahuasca? And I feel like plants always have their own agenda.

31:14SalomeLike, it's so funny. When Anne McLellan came to Vancouver, I was listening to her and she's like, yeah, four plants in Canada. People will grow four plants. And I was like, we're not growing plants. The plants are growing us.

31:32SalomeYou know, this is their agenda and we need to save the Amazon. That's like clearly what the message was that there's a connection between cannabis and Canada and Brazil and Ayahuasca because the Amazon, 160 acres every minute. That means 160 football fields every minute that we're talking right now.

31:56BubblemanYeah, that's insane.

31:57SalomeIt's insane. And in 40 years, there won't be an Amazon.

32:03DrIt's going to change the world.

32:08SalomeYeah.

32:09Etienne FontanAndrew, are you breaking up? What was that?

32:11SpeakerSo the jungle is screaming at all of us for help.

32:15BubblemanI would say it definitely is. What are the plants that they use for their ayahuasca? Are they using like Banisteriopsis root capi? Are they using Verula verudis? What is their mixture?

32:26SalomeNice. I think it's mostly chacaruna. It's mostly Chacaruna, but you know, it's like they're a plant and it's amazing that you know it too because of your work when you were listening to Terence McKenna's, you know, bless them for going back into the Amazon and bringing that information up for us in the 60s and 70s. But this is like, it's a re, I think it's a revival that's happening right now.

32:49SalomeI think a lot of us are, who are working with plants are saying, okay, what's next? I'm giving access to all these people. I don't think it's a coincidence that so many people are taking cannabis now. That's an activation right there. People are slowly getting the plant vibes and waking up to what needs to happen. I don't think the conference is just a conference, but rather a fundraiser.

33:18SalomeI really feel that people are going to start giving back. Thank you so much for joining us.

33:41DrI mean, life, that's where life comes from, in my sense, and the plant is what gives me my life. So, I mean, we got to give back to where our life is coming from, which is the Amazon. So, I mean, yeah, what can we do?

33:53SalomeExactly. And thank you so much. And I think all of us kind of get hooked into that and say like, yes, this is our planet. Those are our lungs. What can we do to protect it? I actually don't know the next step yet. The guidance comes through ayahuasca, you know, and so I'm sure after the conference and if anyone wants to join and come into the circles, you guys are always welcome.

34:15SalomeWe can, you know, sit in and that's where I received the guidance of like, okay, next step is this organization or connect with this person. And I was just doing some research last night and ironically, and I don't know who this guy is, but there's a guy called Jeffrey Bezos in Seattle and he actually owns 18% of the Amazon. So people are investing. They're investing into the Amazon.

34:42SpeakerHe's the guy who started Amazon, Jeff Bezos. He's the founder of it, by the way.

34:48SalomeSo am I mistaken that this is Amazon, not Amazon or Rainforest, but Amazon the company?

34:54SpeakerAmazon, the book, it started out as a book company in a garage, but now he owns, you know, a lot. He's a very wealthy man. He owns most of Amazon. He also owns the rocket company that's now sending reusable, recoverable rockets to space and using them over again. He does a lot of... SpaceX? SpaceX, yeah.

35:18BubblemanNice. Very impressive. Well, it would be cool if he did actually takes, if you owned a company like Amazon and you took your money and you purchased the parts of the Amazon to protect it, that shit would be cool. We'll have to get that confirmed either or not, but. You're pretty cool if you did.

35:35SalomeYeah, definitely, definitely. And that's it. So much money. There's so much money around. Like we talked about this too, Mark. Like why are our athletes and our actors getting whatever, like 30 to 50, 80 million dollars Thank you so much for joining us.

36:15BubblemanIt's terrible to say, but you can totally picture some like marketing dude from New York saying exactly that. It's like, look, Pepsi's got more followers. The bottom line.

36:26SpeakerI'm starting an Instagram account today called The Environment. Nice. Nature.

36:33SalomeNice.

36:35DrI think there's about 10 of them right now.

36:37SpeakerYou're actually too late. I've copyrighted The Environment. I own it.

36:43DrHashtag.

36:45SalomeHashtag. Hashtag I own them all.

36:49DrWell, that's another problem. If we're able to buy parts of the Amazon and stuff like that, I mean, most of the people are using it for other means. I mean, if I understand the McDonald's is a big part of the Amazon, then they clear cut it so they can... Thank you for watching.

37:23BubblemanYou think you're creating something to destroy and then it's like, oh, what's this little alien creature that, you know, landed down on this cow dung in the Amazon? Terrence McKenna.

37:32SpeakerI copyrighted that too. I own all the cow shit.

37:36Etienne FontanAnd again, the plants manipulate us and teach us to grow it so that we can perpetuate it.

37:41SpeakerWell, don't do you any good, Sam. I own the rain.

37:47BubblemanThat'll take us back to Michael Pollan's wonderful book, The Botany of Desire, which I believe was also made into some form of a documentary or not, like a Netflix special. But that is all about the successfulness of plants that have succeeded along by becoming companions to humans. And he talks about, I think, the potato. And he talked, or corn, potato, cannabis plants, and tulips, I believe, which was based on like one royal figure in Holland, basically, you know, liking tulips and creating this giant thing because of it.

38:22BubblemanThese plants are companions. It's kind of accurate the way Saloma said, we're not growing them, they're growing us. And then mushrooms.

38:30SpeakerGo ahead. We need to get rid of the palm oil plant in South America. That thing is doing a tremendous amount of damage. Everybody is cutting the forest down to grow palm oil, much like the companies here in America cut down all the trees and only plant back pine trees. Right. None of the animals can live in a palm tree forest. They kill off everything that goes in there and tries to.

38:53SpeakerSo the animals pay, the ecosystem pays. And in the end, we pay for those companies to go there and cause us all this grief. If we could just get together and stop buying palm oil for like a month, that whole system would disappear.

39:13DrYou can actually buy an acre. I just went to World Land Trust and it's buy an acre. You can buy an acre in the rare forest. You can donate and buy an acre for a friend. You can donate an acre. So there are ways of... There you go. I was just wondering. I just started Googling. Buy an acre. Give it away.

39:31SpeakerJust buy an acre. I already owe 500 acres there. Yeah, I'm buying acres.

39:38DrI'm not going to buy a couple acres on Amazon just because, I mean, hey, I just feel good about it.

39:43SalomeYeah, absolutely. And private investing to secure the spaces. And I think what you got what you were saying about the like the soil. So what happens is that when there's the canopy over the Amazon protects the top soil. But when people start taking the trees down and they start using the land for grazing, the rain comes and it just washes away the top layer. And then there's no more nutrients.

40:10SalomeLike that top layer secures the nutrients. And when it's washed away, they can't even use it for grazing. So they just move to the next acre. They move to the next acre. And I saw this. I saw how they scorched the land over there. And it's fucking devastating. Like just, it's too much. So thank you, Johnny. Maybe that's our, maybe that's, see, this is what happens with, With words.

40:34DrNow I'm reading it to stop buying our land because it's killing us. Amazon Tribe tells Britain. So this is, I mean, I'm trying here, guys, right? So we got to, we got to.

40:43BubblemanWell, you got to be careful with Google. And usually if you're going to Google something, maybe spend more than 30 to 45 seconds doing so.

40:51DrBut there's lots of like buy an acre. And there is ways like, I mean, if you're able to like buy and donate to the tribe or how that works. So why don't the tribes own their own land? There's another thing. Maybe we should fight it so they actually own their land instead of having to.

41:03BubblemanRebel Robot said something really smart, which is like, maybe stop eating beef? It's like...

41:12DrTry and tell that to America, it's just not going to work out too well.

41:15BubblemanI'm not trying. It's easy to do. I was a meat eater dude, like of the hardest core when I grew up, only meat and potatoes. And when I first started to become a vegetarian, I realized that it was going to be difficult because I really liked eating meat. And it really wasn't that difficult. As I learned how to eat proper vegetarian food and make proper dishes, it just became...

41:39BubblemanI mean, I don't feel any unhealthier. In fact, I felt way more unhealthy when I was eating red meat for every meal.

41:46SalomeAbsolutely. Even if you can't give it up all at once, it's kind of like, You know, just taking a step back maybe once a week or maybe once in two weeks, just reducing it. Like this is the ethics piece, right? Like when are we going to say enough is enough and I'm going to do things different. And if you do enough work with ayahuasca and I think cannabis eventually is going to get us there too.

42:10SalomeLike I don't have any more sugar in my system. I used to be the biggest sugar addict. Thank you so much for joining us.

42:31SalomeThey do affect us and they do change our system in a balancing way, both inside and then hopefully for our environment on the outside too.

42:40SpeakerI will visit a farm where there's some cows and hang out with the cows for a few hours and then go somewhere and try to eat a burger. Not going to work out, man. You see how nice those cows are.

42:50BubblemanI bet you Sam could.

42:51SpeakerI bet you Sam could. I was vegetarian for 12 years until I realized the plants were telling me, please don't eat me, so I stopped. So I stopped. Try to get in touch with the cows next. You never can tell, Sam. It might be a real... I don't listen to them. I don't listen to them.

43:13DrI like what it says here. That's what it's reading. Reading the end of this, and it says here, the world needs clean water and air. The world needs the rainforest. I just kind of like it. I've had to say that.

43:28SalomeYeah, absolutely. What are we going to do? You know, 6% of the world is the Amazon and it produces 50% of, you know, or it has 50% of the animals and plant life. Like we're done. That's it. If the Amazon goes, it's downhill. That's it.

43:47SpeakerWhat they really need is a sustainable agricultural model because if you look at the high plains of Canada or the Great Plains in the United States, those are basically the bread baskets for the world, right? And so there's nothing wrong with using agriculture to basically grow food and create businesses and opportunities. So I think the folks in the Amazon will be like, well, The people in Iowa can pave the state with corn and soybeans and sorghum.

44:19SpeakerWhy can't we mow down our rainforests and put agriculture down here? So I think there's a balancing act in being able to put sustainable agricultural practices into these very sensitive areas of the world. We're again, we all rely on the rainforest, but from Brazil's point of view, the rainforest isn't probably helping too much with their GDP, but when they mow down a bunch of rainforest and they're able to put, you know, a billion dollar companies that have ranches to make cattle for Big Macs and leather shoes, it becomes a completely different ball game because now it's on the international We're all benefiting from the economic benefit, but the real question is, what's really good for the planet?

45:13SpeakerGoing back to this model of, they can look at the Midwestern United States or Canada and say, look, you guys mowed down all your trees, you guys are selling corn And soybeans that are from basically industrial farms with Monsanto and DuPont genetics in it. You know, why can't we do this down in South America? So I think there's a delicate balancing act that actually plays into socioeconomic factors as well because you can't just say, well, no, you guys can't grow corn down in Brazil because we need the rainforest to be able to breathe up here in the northern hemisphere.

45:54SpeakerWell, you know, there's one more thing, Mark, that you left out of that paradigm that you just mentioned, and that is the Amazon is turning into one of the most polluted rivers in the world with runoff from farms that exist all along the Amazon. The amount of Stuff in the water is affecting not only the... It's catching up with the Mississippi, the Susquehanna, and the Missouri, and the heavily, you know, agriculture rivers here in the United States.

46:26SpeakerSo, yeah, Amazon's basically playing catch up to the Missouri and the Susquehanna and all the polluted rivers in the U.S. Well, just... River, which is right out back of the hotel here. I hope it doesn't catch on fire while you're there. Well, if there is, there's Harvard and MIT scientists on the other side of the Charles River that can figure out how to nuke it or something or put it out.

46:52SalomeYeah, I think what you're saying is really right, though. We don't have much, you know, authority to be able to tell another country to save their trees when we're not acting in the same regard right here in our own backyard. And so things need to shift here. And I think, you know, with Canada, like, we're, you know, the seventh... Like riches nation. And we have so much.

47:16SalomeWe have so much to be able to like make these kinds of changes. And I hope the cannabis industry and cannabis community can really be an ambassador for that and to really push these environmental missions forward. And then when we clean up our act in Canada, hopefully we can go and, you know, offer solutions and offer teamwork with others. But another piece of that, you know, cannabis has to in some ways, and it's inevitable, get into Brazil.

47:43SalomeLike, that's really the next big step. Argentina is really stepping up, you know, in regards to their work. Peru, I know, would be next. Bolivia, of course, and like, you know, going on to Colombia as well. There's a lot of work. Actually, Breeder Steve, you know, he's doing a lot of work in Colombia with their government. So, I think it's just going to propel and domino effect, but Brazil is a big one.

48:07SalomeI feel like people in Brazil want cannabis and So, maybe that can be the sustainable agriculture and shift that we can get into.

48:17DrWell, I look at the change and with everybody being able to grow four plants in Canada, just think of everybody putting four plants outdoors and what that will do to our environment and change for our air and the climate and stuff like that. That will start changing what we'll do in Brazil. That's going to change the world in a sense. When we start doing that, it starts happening on a large scale around the world and we all start growing.

48:36DrWhen the world starts growing, I think cannabis will save the world. We know how it works. I know how it works in my room. I know how it changes its emotion. I know what it does to the air. So, I mean, plain and simple, we're still seeing it change. Look at 2020 when everybody's outdoor growing. We have four plants in every household across Canada everywhere. Plant a seed.

48:58DrThat's all we have to start talking about is everybody plants. Even if you don't grow, just plant a seed, grow hemp, grow something outdoors. But you know what? Start growing.

49:06SalomeThanks.

49:11SalomeThanks. Yeah. I think we're all great.

49:14DrI mean, we're all agreeing.

49:17SalomeThat's how it all. I feel like that's how it all begins, you know, with giving people empowerment to grow and to clean up your own area. And then with that, there can be more and more spaces because it's kind of getting scary. Like, I don't know if you guys listen to some of the issues like, you know, the next kind of like You know, right now, you know, it's kind of scary.

49:36SalomeTrump has gone into this issue with war without congressional support. And then the next phase of it is not going to be about, you know, black oil anymore. It's going to be water wars. So in regards to cleaning up our water, absolutely putting up different plants around the rivers and, you know, that biosphere and, or bioclimate. And so absolutely the, I remember one of my teachers, like in all of this, she was like, Salome, no matter what happens, you have to keep the hope and you have to keep the joy.

50:09SalomeAnd from there, like just keep moving from there, you know, like don't lose the hope.

50:14BubblemanWell, that's it. You could become pretty depressed pretty quickly when you start focusing on like just how badly humans seem to treat the planet. You know, my only sort of saving grace in all of this is knowing that this has probably happened like a thousand times and that I have faith that the planet has a mechanism to get rid of things that take it too close to its end point.

50:40BubblemanI have faith in the planet more than I have faith in human beings.

50:44SpeakerIt's called volcanoes, earthquakes. Exactly.

50:48DrMother Nature screams when we're treating her.

50:52SpeakerA little Fukushima radiation and we'll be all good.

50:56BubblemanYou know what? Exactly what I was going to say, Mark. We haven't even seen the heavy ones when the atmosphere dissipates and the sun rays actually start burning people's skin off their bodies because it's like, man, it is such a delicate pearl. Thank you for watching.

51:33SpeakerIt seems pretty consistent.

51:39BubblemanAs it has many times. I mean, if you believe that dinosaurs existed, it shook those. They were pretty big and strong.

51:46SpeakerYeah, so the reason why human beings are here according to the greatest philosopher of the 20th century, i.e. George Carlin, was to create plastic. So now there's a new paradigm. It used to just be earth, right? Now it's earth plus plastic because at the end thousand years from now, the only thing that's going to remain is going to be the Fukushima radiation and Teflon.

52:15SpeakerCockroaches are pretty much immortal and invulnerable to anything. You know, the big thing on earth here is the hallucination about money. They created money as a method of controlling. Money and religion. They used both of those to control everybody and now it's gotten completely out of hand. Thank you so much for joining us.

52:57SpeakerAnd so we are in the paradigm all the time of the businessmen are selling our asses down river, but we're giving them permission to do it. Not only that, but we go down where the dogs and sing Old Black Joe while we're loading on the boats. We don't have to worry about humans. Just like cockroaches, rats, humans will still be there. I doubt that we're that durable, but okay.

53:25BubblemanWe're pretty persistent though, I will say that much about us. I mean, think of like how many people were raised on Kraft Dinner and Twinkies. I mean, that's some toxic shit. And there's still a lot.

53:38DrHey, I'm doing fantastic right now. I mean, hey.

53:43SalomeBut you switched, you know.

53:45DrI'm 100% organic. Mac and cheese is homemade now, but you know what?

53:52SalomeYeah, there's been a change. But yeah, I feel like what's your right, the Hopi traditions, you know, they have a prophecy around this, that there's going to be a true path and they have it on a beautiful rock. And they say that people who are connected to their heart will be surviving. And there's actually going to be a shift where, you know, some of us, Again, I'm sorry to say, but some of us might not make it.

54:14SalomeAnd the people who might make it will have a chance to create an alternative, an alternative to life on this planet. And I keep getting the hit, like in my meditations, is that the plants are going to win. The plants are going to win. The plants are going to win.

54:30Dr100%. I mean, we're looking right now. I was talking about the radiation in the ocean from the Kashima stuff. We live here in the West Coast. We have that mycelium belt that is slowly going into the ocean. And that's what's... There's just so much what the plants can do. Yeah, we can keep going on about that. But back to cannabis.

54:50SpeakerWell, you know, the plants are able to clean because they cycle the water and everything that's in the dirt back up into the air and into us again. And... We got to stop with the idea of only growing vast areas of corn and vast areas of soybeans. We got to diversify and start small farms that grow a lot of everything, you know, instead of a big factory farm that only grows one thing over endless territory and probably using stuff to grow it with that none of us really would like to have in our bodies.

55:26SpeakerWe don't have a consensus of Agreement. We don't allow, we are constantly allowing the government to do and say whatever they want and make the rules for the rest of us on how we eat and what we put in our bodies. And as long as there's money to be made, as long as we're going to give into this, what they call somewhere else, mammon, or this illusion of Maya, of having to have things instead of Thank you so much for joining us.

56:26SpeakerThank you for watching.

56:52SalomeAnd you know, Mark and I, we talked about this a little bit of like ethics and in regards to making sure that as a community and you guys as pioneers really set the, have these talks about testing and getting people more empowered to say, okay, I'm not going to take whatever, you know, strain from a dispensary or from an LP unless it's tested, unless I see exactly what herbicides, fungicides, you know, exist in this thing.

57:19SalomeAnd I will only choose organic and clean grown. When people say that, Then there can be a change. People have to want that. And the other point that you were making around wealth is that I feel like wealth, there's no issue with wealth. I feel like also a lot of us in the cannabis industry who have it, it's just about circulating it. Like when we're stagnant with it, and I think that's what's happened to a lot of people on the planet, is that they just hold on to it.

57:48SalomeAnd it's like, what are you going to do with all that? All that money, and it actually turns into a bit of a block for everything else in life. And so, if you're circulating the wealth, there's more for you, there's more for everybody else, and it just keeps going and going. And that way, we can support other situations. But yeah, as far as hoarding it, and there's so many people, I can't like counseling like side I I've never been in business and what I've experienced in the last two years with like sharks and I and I know Mark you've been telling me about like other people who have experienced tons of stuff like this I'm just shocked and so it's like okay ethical business How do we do this?

58:33SalomeHow do we keep each other accountable? How do we make sure that there's, you know, transparency and we talk about it and we get news out there?

58:42SpeakerIt's a tough one. Look, my grandpa used to say, money is like manure. If you want it to do any good, you've got to spread it around.

58:50BubblemanYeah. My grandpa used to say, life is like a shit sandwich. The more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat.

58:58Etienne FontanWell, in California, they made it so that we were not for profit. So we were forced into philanthropical means. So by spreading things around locally and in times of need when your local library can't afford books and you can buy them books and the local youth center needs assistance so that they can have teachers or people there and then you start donating all around your community like Thank you so much for joining us.

59:50Etienne FontanThank you for joining us.

59:56Etienne FontanWe still had to just, you know, as I said, lead by example, find new ways to get access, find new ways to help your community and creative ways that, you know, leads to the betterment of your entire community, not just you sitting there in a little corner selling your weed. Once the community realizes that you care about the community and they see it's about patients, as we've seen in numerous locations, That it spreads naturally around the world organically.

1:00:25Etienne FontanI mean, it's the ripple effect from just a few activists years ago from one gentleman by the name of Dennis Perrone with Prop 215. We've seen the world completely change because people understood that. The plants understood it. It was a mutual connection that everybody got involved in. To the point this week, congratulations to West Virginia, although it's not ideal, but I went to college at West Virginia University, and I love West Virginia, and they now have access to medical marijuana.

1:00:55Etienne FontanNo, they can't grow it. No, they can't smoke it, but it's the foot in the door that they have that they didn't have before, and that now makes 29 U.S. states. That's another American allowance, though, isn't it?

1:01:09SpeakerI mean, you can't grow it. You can't. Thank you for watching.

1:01:31Etienne FontanBut again, as as what we moved with 64, we already had 215, but we needed better. And so this we had that foot in the door long enough that it was that natural time for change. So this foot in the door will lead to change if those people in West Virginia and Louisiana and those others push for that change that's needed as opposed to those really draconian resistant where individuals can't grow.

1:01:55Etienne FontanIndividuals should be able to grow. Every individual should be able to Thank you for joining us.

1:02:17DrThank you for watching.

1:02:36DrIt gave me purpose to get up and to start doing things. What got me to my back to work program that got me, I'm looking around my house, have that handle so I can stand, so I can get up the stairs just to go to my girl when I first got this place seven years ago. So that plant got me out of bed. It helped me recover.

1:02:51DrIt gave me my life back. That's why I preach it every day. It's what growing is so important for someone who's been injured, has any kind of disease because it gives you a quality of life that nothing else can give you. That plant gives you life.

1:03:03SpeakerYou know, even the plants love you back. When my wife and I grew in San Diego, we had a big garden. We would go up there in the morning. She was pregnant. She would sit down in the middle of the garden, and I would play my sitar for a couple of hours. And when we would leave, we would notice that all the plants were leaning towards us from every direction.

1:03:24SpeakerAnd then a little bit later in the day, you'd go up there, and the plants were all straight up.

1:03:29Etienne FontanBut every morning they would lean towards us and center around us because we would go there and play that music and just be there with them.

1:03:37SpeakerAnd some of those plants grew 27 feet tall. So that was a massive year that taught me that if you love them, they'll love you back.

1:03:47Etienne FontanAnyone else a fan of, I'm a big fan of music in my gardens, classical music, jazz. They respond absolutely wonderfully to music. What kind of music do you listen to?

1:03:56SpeakerActually, heavy metal works the best. Heavy metal.

1:04:01SpeakerIt cuts through those frequencies and really excites the fans. The only place I will listen to heavy metal is inside the garden.

1:04:11DrJust the garden. I listen to heavy metal everywhere, but definitely inside the garden.

1:04:16Etienne FontanThis will be fun. Let's ask the people in chat, if you're growers, what kind of music do you play in your garden that you prefer or that your plants prefer? Let's see it. Oh, Slayer. Wow, that's hilarious.

1:04:32BubblemanRight off the bat with Slayer, hey? Those are some hardcore plants. Those are some OG cushions, I'm going to guess.

1:04:40BubblemanHey, welcome, Todd.

1:04:42ToddGood morning, everybody.

1:04:43SalomeYay, Todd.

1:04:44ToddTalking about the benefits of being a gardener.

1:04:47BubblemanYes, plants, music.

1:04:50ToddI've always joked that I've learned more from growing than I have from smoking cannabis.

1:04:54Etienne FontanHey, the world needs to know, congratulations, Todd McCormick, on beating the government.

1:05:01ToddWell, I don't know if I beat them. That was an expensive journey. But they finally dismissed my case after four years of fighting them and after five years after I got raided, which is pretty amazing.

1:05:12BubblemanOh, it's beating them. It is beating them. Because the alternative is ending up in a cage, which is generally like losing, in my opinion.

1:05:20ToddYeah, I totally understand what you mean. But, you know, 40 grand later and, you know, four years ago in court every other month doesn't feel like a victory.

1:05:29BubblemanI got audited by the tax man here in Canada. I said I owed him all this money I didn't. Cost me 50 grand and finally I won because I didn't owe him the money. And I said the same thing. I was like, well, it still cost me 50 grand. The lawyer was like, yeah, but you're not going to prison.

1:05:46ToddI was like, what do you mean going to prison? Why would I have gone to prison?

1:05:48BubblemanAnd he says, because it's an indictable offense. You can't just like steal money from the government in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and expect to not, like I had no idea the entire time I was facing this audit that at the end of it, had they say, okay, you actually lose. I would have probably done some time in jail if you can imagine for tax evasion when it was a mistake on their part.

1:06:10BubblemanI never evaded taxes. They made mistakes that they thought I had. So I felt like it was still a win even though it did cost me 50 Gs.

1:06:19ToddNo, you know, I get you totally. I mean, I do feel like in a sense it is a win for a lot of people because I'm not alone in this. I mean, from what I understand, from what my attorney, Tony Serra, told me, thousands of cases, cannabis cases, are getting tossed out in California right now because of Proposition 64. And the judge even said that straight up.

1:06:39ToddYou know, the prosecution argued against dismissing the case, and the judge said straight up, because I don't think it would have even made it this far under 64. Now, so, you know, and now they moved from, you know, a felony to now prosecuting me for only a misdemeanor. And are they really going to take a misdemeanor marijuana case to a jury trial in Oakland, California, with such an insanely famous And, you know, really good attorney.

1:07:05ToddI mean, my attorney's 84 years old, goes to, you know, still gets up, goes to court because he likes to.

1:07:11Etienne FontanThat's a brilliant attorney that you have. That's a genius attorney you had. Tony's amazing.

1:07:16ToddIf anyone gets in trouble and can get him, I highly recommend him. He's an angel. That would be the first jury to actually laugh a case out of court. Yeah, you know, and the hypocrisy I'm facing is that, you know, five years ago when I first got raided, we had four cannabis clubs here in Oakland. They doubled that number, and now everybody's been reading the news. Oakland has been so aggressive.

1:07:39ToddThey were going to have 100 manufacturing licenses and all this other stuff. Meanwhile, they're still prosecuting people, you know, vindictively, so... It's really a double-edged sword and we're still fighting for freedom and equal rights because we're a long way away from it. The hypocrisy is still thick in local government is what I would say.

1:07:58SpeakerWell, because the city council is getting money put in their pockets and they like that very much.

1:08:04ToddAnd they want, absolutely Mark, and they also want to see that, you know, they're looking at the municipalities around them making money and they want that money, you know. But I feel like they have this attitude that the cannabis that, you know, makes it into the coffee shops kind of falls out of the sky via a stalk or something because they come after the producers and they leave the people that are retailing alone because It's socially accepted to leave someone alone that's distributing cannabis to someone who's sick.

1:08:32ToddBut the guy that's up in the house growing that stuff that gets into the hands of the distributor, well, that's still a criminal. That guy has to get out of our society. And it's really a fucked up way to look at things because you can't have the medical marijuana joint if you don't have somebody somewhere growing it. It just doesn't.

1:08:49BubblemanAnd a particular type of grower, it seems, that sort of gravitates, because there are two sides to cannabis. A lot of people sell it to the recreational market, which I support just as much, and some people supply it to the medical. Now, it seems as though most of the people that are going for the medical, you know, the majority anyway, have this sort of internal ethic approach.

1:09:13BubblemanMoral sort of ground to make, you know, you want to hope that they're trying to grow the best that they can. You want to hope.

1:09:20ToddSee, I love you, Mark. And one of the things I've always liked about you is your high moral and ethical standards that you have. Everywhere I've traveled with you, you are always polite to strangers, always polite to staff. You're always nice as you are to me, to everyone we meet. And this is one reason I've always loved you. But unfortunately, a lot of people here in California...

1:09:37ToddCalifornia, you know, prior to what, you know, ATN mentioned, 215, it was all the recreational market because medical was just, you know, a few guys like me and LV Musica and a few others running around saying, I've got a prescription, I'm medical, I have a spinal fusion, look at my scar, and people going, oh, well, yeah, okay, that makes sense. But up to that point, people then transitioned as the market opened up.

1:09:59ToddAnd I begrudge nobody, if you're a cannabis producer and you're getting cannabis in the hands of people, I believe you're benefiting society. As long as you're not lacing it with poisons and pesticides and chemicals and shit that would harm a person, You know, you're part of the doing good of nature because I think cannabis is definitely part of nature doing good onto us humans. I mean, it's like a different kind of food, if you will.

1:10:24ToddThe Grateful Dead used to joke that it was like lettuce in their family. You know, you could have it with every meal, you know, so to speak. What cannabis does for humanity is like a, you know, I don't want to say a blessing, but it's so kind. Like, it takes care of us. It helps us in our nutrition. It helps us when we're sick. I mean, it plays such a vital role that I don't begrudge anyone that's growing either for the medical market or for the recreational market, but unfortunately, and the tests prove it, A lot of people who are growing for the medical market are no different and haven't changed their ways and are still coating their stuff with pesticides to make sure that they don't lose their chance of selling their crap instead of having to trash their harvest and start over and do it right and do it clean.

1:11:12ToddThat's a major problem. Honestly, one thing I can't wait for is Thank you so much for joining us.

1:11:40DrThat's what they're doing in Canada with the licensed producers now. They're recalling cannabis if it's being contaminated and stuff like that. So we are getting a bit of that system here, which is kind of good to see with the legal system.

1:11:51ToddThe only thing that's going to make growers stand up and change their ways, because if there's the threat of getting caught and everything you produced in that lot getting destroyed, suddenly you're going to do every preventive medicine thing you have to do to make sure you don't lose your shit and your reputation. Thank you for watching.

1:12:27BubblemanWhat's funny is the company, isn't the company that got busted here, John, didn't they hire like the trailer park boys to be their sort of like recreational market sales people? I heard one of the LPs that got caught with like, I don't know if it was moldy herb or pesticide ridden herb.

1:12:44DrThere's so many now to be honest. There's been several that have been recalled from Toray to Metrim.

1:12:51BubblemanAll the more reason to be very careful as to putting your name attached to any of these companies. Yet at the same time, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:13:29BubblemanA situation where it opens up a lot of people able to sell this pesticide-ridden herb onto the market without being tested, without being looked at.

1:13:40ToddDare I say this too, if you're a legal producer by definition and there is no threat at all of the man coming in and cutting your shit down and stealing your lamps and destroying your bank accounts and locking you and your wife up, There is no excuse for you not to be doing it absolutely 100% correct and not risking the jobs of your employees or the investment of the people who stood behind you and helped you put that legal grow together.

1:14:05ToddThere's nothing that should be getting done wrong at that point. You should be doing absolutely everything above board and with the idea that you're playing a long game. And, you know, the problem with the legality is they're playing the short game. They're playing harvest to harvest to harvest. So it doesn't matter if you don't catch them, you know, net last run. They're still doing it this run.

1:14:27ToddAnd this is where I think we run into mega problems in the black market. When you start dealing with sensitive people who are actually physically dealing with ailments that could be triggered by chemical exposure and stuff like that. This is where I think responsibility and ethics plays a A bigger role in it than we have ever seen in the cannabis industry to date.

1:14:46Etienne FontanBut we have seen they will not voluntarily do it. I was the one who volunteered to do it and I saw the city change the law around me and then I saw quite a few of people who used to produce for me fail testing and then go sell that elsewhere. And so I'm very thankful that we're going to have actual regulations here in California so that everybody is forced along the same rules as opposed to Thank you for watching.

1:15:32ToddThat, I think, is inherently a problem because the state, if they're going to force testing, they should force there to be something else that happens. If you fail, there should be a destruction of the product, not a pass it off to the next naive buyer. People won't bring it in. They'll be scared of losing their weed.

1:15:49DrThat's what will be the next problem.

1:15:51ToddThat's happening, John, because ATN was over last night and I was asking for XYZ companies. He's like, dude, they're not here. They've been failing the pesticides. That sucks for the extractors because they're not the ones making the cannabis. If they're getting the cannabis and they don't otherwise realize that it's laden with pesticides and they do the extraction, now suddenly that's in their extraction, sometimes amplified.

1:16:15BubblemanBut an extractor can easily step up and have that stuff tested on their own because it's their business, it's their company name. I know it shouldn't be their responsibility, but at that point, it kind of is.

1:16:26ToddWell, now that's what's happening because they can't afford the investment into the process only to find out later when they show up at his club that, hey, man, sorry, your stuff didn't pass. Here's all your stuff back. And I mean, that's a huge hit to an extraction company that's trusting the source of production, which is usually what happens. There's a lot of trust because we don't have the contractual obligations and everything.

1:16:50ToddYou really got to meet people that you have like an ethical connection with or, you know, market it.

1:16:55Etienne FontanThere is no organic, pardon me, there's no organic certification yet. And hopefully with this regulations in California, we will start down that road because it takes two years of working and getting things properly set up before you can even reach that certification. So even at the earliest, if 2018 becomes that reality, the earliest you'll see organic would be 2020 or 2021 in reality. Sorry, Marcus. Yeah.

1:17:24BubblemanI'm good. I was just, it was a momentary, like I was going to say something, but I'm not, you know what I was, what I was going to say actually is kind of going back to what Salome and I were talking about in the sort of, you know, this, everyone's so darn, all the nice people in the cannabis industry that find out things that aren't so nice seem to keep them to themselves.

1:17:43BubblemanAnd we don't like put them out there. And it's kind of a bit of a problem. No one wants to be the dick that's throwing someone under a bus or, you know, Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:18:21SalomeI would say, sorry to interrupt, but two points I wanted to make. One, Todd, really appreciate what you're saying regarding, you know, the accountability and ethics around growing and getting this medicine as pure as possible to the people. And then two points I want to make around that is one, testing, making sure that testing is really like affordable and that, you know, people can do it on their own as well, as well as the bigger companies.

1:18:45SalomeThank you so much for joining us.

1:19:04SalomeThank you for joining us.

1:19:30ToddNo, you have a great question. I think that, you know, Sam would be the best person to answer that in Europe. But I think that there's also the reality of most of our genetics that we use commonly are in open domain, their public domain. I mean, especially when you come to a place like California and, you know, there's so much clone sales and seeds that are based upon the work of others.

1:19:53ToddWhich isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like I'm smoking some Tangy that's, you know, Skunk One mixed with California Orange. And Skunk One obviously came out of Sam the Skunk Man's garden after years and years and years of work and investment and money. But, you know, Sam, I would like to ask you, you know, do you feel like you own every hybrid that Skunk One has found its way into at this point?

1:20:15SpeakerAbsolutely. They're all mine and you all owe me big time.

1:20:21ToddOh, I love you. And on the flip side of it, the other answer is no, right?

1:20:27SpeakerWell, Sam never put his name on it. I wanted to say one other thing, too. As for poisoned marijuana, if it's tested and it's found to be poisoned, just like a bad credit card, it should be destroyed on the spot.

1:20:43Etienne FontanHopefully the new laws will allow for that, but that will be what the distributors do, but if I did that now, I'd be murdered.

1:20:51ToddThe other thing I'd like to say is what Breeders writes, if you make a hybrid, you can patent that plant, but technically you shouldn't have to because you should be responsible with the cutting you make, that the plant you make, and it shouldn't fall into the hands of, there should be no way it could fall into the hands of your competition because you control the cutting. And, you know, it's only when people are trying to take possession of things that they had nothing to do with and breeding that they had no part of where they're trying to say, I've patented X, Y, Z, and now this is mine and it's bullshit because realiztically... Those patents aren't worth the paper they're written on, Todd.

1:21:27ToddYou can't patent a plant on it.

1:21:30DrYou can patent a plant, John. I had to get like a DNA fingerprint on it and then you had to go through certain procedures and I know they tried patenting a few strains and I don't know any strains that are patented as in their lineage. Is there anything, Sam? Can anybody kind of comment on that as a patent of a strain?

1:21:49SpeakerAbsolutely, there are patents in the United States. Yeah, okay, we know that. That's number one. Number two is, in Canada, you cannot patent cannabis. Yeah, so the question is really, are they enforceable, and will they hold up an infringement case against it? Well, think of it like this. Can I say yes in Canada? No.

1:22:10BubblemanListen, for patents, every patent has to find out if it's enforceable, and the only way to find that out is by going to court. Otherwise, you have no idea if a patent, there are so many patents that are probably not enforceable.

1:22:26SpeakerOkay, so my take on this is that, again, you could do sort of like what Indra's talked about, which is that if you think that a patent is invalid and it's somehow getting in the way of your commercial enterprise, you could basically invalidate that patent. And the way you invalidate a patent is you bring it to court and you show that Thank you for joining us.

1:23:10SpeakerA patent has to cover an invention. An invention is something new that no one's ever, ever, ever, ever done before. When you come up with a new strain of cannabis, you're playing the cannabis plant. You're trying to come up with a different ratio, different terpene expression. You're crossing this strain with this strain. That's all fine and dandy. It's not an invention. It's a trade secret that you keep to yourself.

1:23:45ToddI believe you're mistaken, Mark. You are mistaken in this. The reality is, unfortunately, it's fortunate and unfortunate. If you and I, Mark, were to breed together a plant and sell it to, let's say, an LP, like ATN gets a license to produce in Nevada and he wants a unique variety that none of his competitors have. So you and I get together and we make a plant and we patent it and we license the plant to let's say him.

1:24:12ToddThen in a sense we are protecting a very unique thing. No one else has it because no one else could have combined our two parents together to make the one that we had. Now, if someone like an employee from his business steals that plant and go and starts propagating it down the street and suddenly he sees this unique cannabis that we bred in someone else's shop, he goes and gets that tested and it comes out to actually be exactly the plant he has.

1:24:39ToddAnd now he realizes, oh, somebody stole my plant from my production facility and put it in production down the street and is now competing with me. That would be an application of what we're talking about because it is unique. And it shouldn't have been in anybody else's possession because it was in a controlled situation. Now, there is no one in the prior arc. You hear what I mean?

1:25:02ToddWe wouldn't own the Sour Diesel or OG or Hazes that came before that we made the connection with. I get that.

1:25:07SpeakerThere's no precedent in the way that the industry operates today where somebody walks out of a California dispensary with a couple clones of Sour Diesel. How is the guy who patents Sour Diesel, No, no, no.

1:25:18ToddYou're thinking wrong. You're thinking wrong. Clones? Okay. So these would be what I'm talking about in public domain, okay? But if you were to take two unique plants and mix them together, you're going to get a unique offspring.

1:25:32SpeakerRight. But what if someone else just replicated the process that you did?

1:25:35ToddThis is my thing. Again, your parents can have sex again, but they're only going to have one Mark Scaldone. And the reality is, is the plants are unique, just like your brothers and sisters are from the same parents, but they're technically unique.

1:25:47SpeakerI can give a better example for you, Todd. Go right ahead. Let's say you want cannabis that is high in THC-B and only THC-B. It doesn't exist in nature. Okay, so let's say I create a variety that's 10, 20% THCV and no other cannabinoids. Of course I could patent that. Yeah, I'm not saying that you can't. What I'm saying is that the patent is only as good as it'll hold up in an infringement case against it, okay?

1:26:19SpeakerThat is my entire, Unless somebody can show, That's the truth for every single patent, Mark. Right, right, right. And I'm just, I'm echoing that, Mark. Yeah. Again, I'm not, Unless somebody can come up with a variety that's only THC-B. It doesn't exist in nature. No, I, I get that, and I understand the essence of inventions. I understand that that's an invention. My question is, okay, now I have this piece of paper that says that I own that strain.

1:26:49SpeakerRight? So how do I enforce that? How do I, are people going to let me, Don't give the strain to anybody. Bam.

1:26:56ToddAnd that's why I brought up the fact that if you license it to a legal producer and he suspected someone down the street was growing it, he would have to do what Monsanto does, which is go on their property, get a copy of it, find out if it is actually their genetic property, and then go after them accordingly.

1:27:12SpeakerYou know, that's kind of what, They're doing exactly what you did. So I'm not getting a clone, but what's, so if you cross strain number one with strain number two to come up with your new strain, what's to keep somebody else from doing that too? You did it first.

1:27:29ToddNo, no, they don't have those parents. It's that simple. They don't hold the two unique keys that you use to make that. They can cross similar plants together. They're not going to get the same eye spring.

1:27:40SpeakerSo you're starting with two essentially or unknown or secret. No.

1:27:46ToddNo, you're not in a sense. Well, you are to you because if you and I were to do it, you and I would know the ingredients that went into our crossbreed, if this makes sense to you. And as long as we're not running our mouth and telling everybody what we're doing, they don't have the opportunity to replicate our work if our work is done behind closed doors.

1:28:03SpeakerI could give you a practical example. Okay, when I first developed skunk number one in 75, it was skunky as hell. I didn't like the skunky flavor or the taste. I liked it sweeter. And so I, for 10 years, selected the sweetest ones and used those for reproduction. After about 10 years, they were pretty sweet. And then I brought it over here and made it even sweeter.

1:28:28SpeakerSo the end effect of it is that somebody else could make the original skunky, what they call now roadkill skunk, but everybody's tried, nobody's done it. They've been trying for more than 25 years.

1:28:48SpeakerSo you could think it's easy, Mark, but it ain't. No, I'm not saying that at all. I guess, again, and we could just end this discussion because I'm just, my point is that a patent, whether it's on a new widget or a new strain or a new compound, is only as good as it'll hold up in a court of law. And what that means is that if someone does your thing that you have patented and you try to go after them, that becomes, again, something that I don't believe that there's precedent for In cannabis.

1:29:25SpeakerI'm not aware of that. Of course there's only patents. Of course there's no precedent. But look at soybeans. Wait a minute. Look at corn and soybeans. When the Monsanto genes showed up in the neighbor's corn and soybeans, Monsanto sued and had their seeds destroyed.

1:29:47BubblemanSaskatchewan farmer. That was crazy, actually. Monsanto's actually done that to a lot of farmers, like seeded out their crops and then sued them for their crops.

1:29:57SpeakerMonsanto's genetics.

1:29:59ToddThat's more unethical of what we're talking about because what we were talking about in our scenarios, it was behind closed doors. What they're saying about is open pollination of their genetics to their neighbor's crop contaminates their neighbor's crop and then gives Monsanto the ability to go in and say, hey, now that we've polluted your shit, we're going to come in and say that our genetics are in there and that we're going to get you cut down.

1:30:19ToddAnd I think that is unethical and immoral on every level.

1:30:23SpeakerCorrect.

1:30:24ToddBrutal.

1:30:26SpeakerThat's some scary shit.

1:30:27ToddBut what we're talking about, go out and crossbreed anything you want. Most of the good cannabis is in open public domain. You can get seeds. You can get clones. You can get something. You can mix it up and play with it. That's the whole point of the card trick. Maybe what you make will be unique.

1:30:43SpeakerSo there's now, like we had this discussion with Ryan, I want to say like about 10 episodes ago because Ryan was on... From Sam's, right? We had both dolls. Remember that episode with both dolls in the chair? I vaguely remember some doll somewhere. Yeah, well, yeah. Ryan was over there on the couch, if I remember correctly. Well, anyway, I thought what we were talking about was like the Bacchus patent or some of these patents that are now claiming strains on cannabinoids.

1:31:19SpeakerI'm very familiar with the patent. That patent is valid unless somebody can show what they've got a patent for existed before they got that patent. They really, really, really looked. I don't think it did exist. Right. So here's the question, Sam. I just wonder, is the modus operandi there to basically then start going around to Mark, you're missing that.

1:31:54ToddThat's the whole point. You seem to be escaping you.

1:31:58SpeakerYeah.

1:31:59ToddBut just because you patent a hybrid we make doesn't mean you can use that patent on somebody else's plants. It's only applicable to the hybrid you and I make in the situation where We're trying to license it to someone like a legal producer, and we don't want legal producer number two getting their hands on our concoction and putting it into production. It's like the recipe to Jack Daniels number seven.

1:32:19ToddJust because you patented that doesn't mean you're going to go after everybody that makes whiskey. It means that if anybody makes your specific whiskey and starts labeling that shit as Jack Daniels old number seven recipe, and it's actually that recipe, you have a way of stopping them from competing with you because they're using your work.

1:32:36SpeakerYou raise a very good point. What is the value of patenting that strain?

1:32:42ToddI will tell you, going back to my scenario, is if you give that out to a legal producer, and then an employee of the legal producer walks in and hacks the top off one of the little plants and beds, puts it in his pocket, takes it home, roots it, and puts it into production, and then walks up to the legal producer down the street and go, hey, you know that really awesome, super trippy fucking strain they got?

1:33:02ToddBling, here it is right here. You can be in competition with them. Just give me X amount of dollars and I sneak it for you. Then the next thing you know is that's exactly what this would protect. Because moving forward, this is how people are going to have unique varieties, cultivars, Thank you for joining us.

1:33:44SpeakerWhen people have breeders' rights or patents on a particular plant or variety, what happens is if they're suspected that somebody else is growing that material and selling it, then they, one way or another, they get that material. It's DNA tested. When it's proven to be the same, they've got a complete legal system to go after them. This happens a lot.

1:34:07ToddWell, can I break it down like this, Mark, in a sense of roses? If you and I wanted to sell a specific purple rose bush to Home Depot and we did all this work and all this R&D and we finally made a plant that was perfect and we put it into cloning production, well, then someone else couldn't come along, buy our rose bush from Home Depot, go, this is a great rose bush, set up three acres of greenhouses and start knocking off our work.

1:34:31ToddThat would be what the plant protection provides. Do you know what I mean? They can go into the rose bush business. But they would have to do the work you and I did in the first place too and breed a variety that is unique to them.

1:34:43SpeakerI understand plant protection. Again, I don't want to seem like that.

1:34:50BubblemanHey, Mark, I have a question. Have you ever defended a patent in court?

1:34:56SpeakerI've been called to defend patents in court, yeah.

1:34:59BubblemanLike your own patents, you've defended your own patents.

1:35:02SpeakerNo, no, no, no, not my own. I was caught, no, it was a completely different.

1:35:06BubblemanBecause what I find is that people who write patents have a very, very different angle that they come at from, say, people like myself who spent seven to eight years in a patent lawsuit. I learned a lot about it not from the perspective of trying to protect my patent, Thank you for joining us.

1:35:39BubblemanYou know, I saw that the reality of going through court was never like, oh, well, you have to be able to go through court. And well, I'll tell you, that's what that's what he was doing with me. Now, I have a very unique experience in my patent lawsuit in the sense that I partnered up with the person who was suing me. I paid him the money that he felt was desirable for the entire length of my time.

1:36:00BubblemanAnd into the future. Yeah, I thought it was a better idea. In the end, it was a lot of people just saying, no, he doesn't own the patent. He doesn't own the patent. He doesn't own the patent. Well, guess what? In the end, he absolutely owns the patent. Both for the modality and for the...

1:36:15SpeakerNobody, Mark, what you're saying is true, but nobody has challenged him to the end.

1:36:22BubblemanOh, yeah, because here's the thing. I challenged him far enough, and I will tell you, nobody had more to lose than me, and nobody else wanted to challenge.

1:36:33ToddRight, and that's part of the problem is you have to count your losses, right, and at some point jump before you sink your own ship.

1:36:40BubblemanAnd do what's right. I know for a fact that when Eldon was sitting on Mila's couch and he came up with the bag idea right then and there staring at Reinhardt's machine, not reading the book Hashish, not ordering the water extraction instructions from High Times in 1988, Not doing any of that, but literally looking at Reinhardt's machine and saying, two nylon bags with two screen bottoms and a five-gallon bucket, and you have the same thing.

1:37:08BubblemanThat was 100% from Reinhardt's machine, and that's what all the bags sort of came to be.

1:37:16SpeakerMark, that's the inspiration. That's the aha moment of an invention. When you realize...

1:37:26ToddIt's the building of somebody else's idea is what it really was.

1:37:30BubblemanThat's what it was.

1:37:31SpeakerThat's okay. Are building on other people's ideas.

1:37:36BubblemanThe machine that was being looked at was patented and signed and deals were made. The thing that Eldon came up with, he never got paid a penny for. Mark Rose, who was sitting right next to him, who currently manufactures bubble bags for the last 13 or 14 years. He came up with the name Isolator. He started manufacturing the bags. And Mila, whose living room they were sitting in, she sold the bags.

1:37:58BubblemanThat's how Isolator Bag got started. And I started Bubble Bags based on Isolator Bags, not on Reinhardt's machine, not on Sam's information. I started it based on those Isolator Bags. So the bottom line was, from my perspective, the right thing to do was to pay the guy who those bags got created from.

1:38:19ToddWell, can I say something? In a way, when we're talking with a plant, the plant would have a unique genetic fingerprint, just like you and I do. So, if you did find the plant in the dispensary or the legal production facility down the street, it would have to have been stolen, and it would be easy to determine that it was an exact... Cutting or exact duplicate of what it was you and I patented because it would have a genetic fingerprint that we would be able to test.

1:38:49ToddIt wouldn't be as ambiguous as it was in a situation of like a product with the bubble bags because there was some conversation of well, when did the actual invention happen? Who is the person that actually did it? If you and I made a plant, that plant would be something that was specific. So if we license that one plant to legal producer A and somehow legal producer two got it, it wouldn't be a question of how it would just be you got something that is genetically the duplicate of something we have patented and that is what we patented it to protect.

1:39:21ToddSo it would have had to have been stolen to make it into legal producer number two, if you understand what I'm saying. That's where it'll go forward in the future, and it should, because someone who puts the money into the greenhouses to make the purple rosebush shouldn't lose their shit to the guy that walks into Home Depot, buys the rosebush, and then can put it into bigger greenhouses and into wider production.

1:39:42ToddThere should be production in some way.

1:39:44BubblemanThe bottom line, Todd, is there is the business ethic of what you can and can't get away with, and then there is what's right and wrong. And we all really know what's right and wrong. And it's like when Shona and Sam were talking the other day, and Shona was like, oh, I hate anyone that wants to patent anything. She's coming from this patient perspective where this is saving her life.

1:40:07BubblemanTotally get that. Sam spent $10 million on this research. Sam spent his life paying professional people who went to university so they could have jobs learning about, you know, this plant and what makes it tick and being able to breed things that never existed into existence before. So I also see his perspective of like, well, It would be nice to be able to kind of recoup some of that money, maybe, you know, not be like a big giant evil Monsanto, but at least be able to get the money back.

1:40:38BubblemanI mean, a business is a business. If you invest a lot of money in a business for the greater good of the people, it shouldn't be wrong for you to be able to profit a little bit off of that.

1:40:49ToddNo, and let me lay it out. Like, roses will always be in public domain. But, you know, the specific funky purple roses, you know, that smell like, you know, grapes or something would be unique to that person's work. And there's nothing wrong with that. If we allow that to exist, it will spur innovation. It will spur investments. It will get people thinking about how to make, you know what I mean, a better rose bush.

1:41:12ToddAnd that would benefit everybody that likes roses. Thank you for watching.

1:41:34ToddGo cloning it and selling it at the, you know, Osh hardware store down the street is your own work. And, you know, I don't see anything wrong with it in any way whatsoever. And with the amount of cannabis that is already in public domain, we have nothing to fear about, you know, cannabis ever getting taken away by big corporations. It's impossible.

1:41:55SpeakerI personally had some doubts about the broad nature of the Bacchus patent. That said, I think the majority of it is absolutely correct. I just think that... Maybe I might be able to find something published that shows some of the things that they're claiming they did first. But I don't know that for a fact. I'm just, I suspect.

1:42:23ToddYou know, that's a different conversation too. I mean, and I hate to convolute, you know, something as straightforward as, you know, protection of the purple rosebush. You know, when you have things that are, you know, who invented who, who made the first product. You know, who had the idea and whose living room. That is a much different convoluted conversation than something as simple as, you know, hey, let's go make a prettier rose and, you know, sell it at Home Depot and, you know, find a way to protect ourselves so that, you know, some other nursery can't come down the street and not make a better rose, but take our rose and profit from it.

1:42:54ToddThat's really all I see happening, you know, with the way it'll go. If we get equal protection and equal rights, just like other people in the plant world get, this whole cannabis scene would be better off, in my opinion. Equal rights is really, I think, all I'll ever argue for. I don't think we should be privileged. I don't think we have entitlement. But I think just treat us equally, you know, afford us the protections that you afford the rosebush breeder.

1:43:20ToddThat would be a nice start.

1:43:22SalomeOkay, I have a question. This has been really informative, and I wonder how it's different in Canada, because as you guys said, we don't have the patent situation in Canada. It's in the States. So, for example, in the States with Todd, what are some of the cases with patent rights? How have they concluded and what, like, do you feel that if something like that happened where, for example, one of the bigger distributors has a genetic that's not completely theirs, you know, it was the hybrid of the two plants, and someone can, you know, have this fingerprint, then what would happen in Canada?

1:43:59SalomeAnd...

1:44:00ToddWell, in a sense, the Monsanto conversation we had, what happened in Canada, so that was on your turf, where Monsanto came along and evilly had their neighbors' plants uprooted because they said they had genetically somehow picked up their plants that were patented. So that happened in Canada, so that would be something we all have to look for. And then the second part of the question hasn't really materialized because all of the legal producers, you could call them in the United States, Are really working off of cuttings.

1:44:31ToddA lot of what is in Colorado were cuttings that were being sold in the California dispensaries and just happened to find their way east, you know, because those name brands, Sour Diesel, Girl Scout Cookie, OG Kush, whatever, are strains that people are familiar with. And when they get to a legal point in Denver, they're going to ask for Sour Diesel because they've heard of it. So if they don't have sour diesel, they look for a way to get it.

1:44:56ToddBut kind of what we're talking about is a matured version of the industry where you don't want to have what the guy down the street and the girl down the street has because that doesn't give you anything unique to offer your customer base. So what you would do as a legal producer is find somebody that has the ability to make Thank you for joining us today.

1:45:37ToddFor instance, when Ben Dronkers and Scentsy Seeds held the very first Cannabis Castle tour, they had the strain that became Jack Herrer on display. And people went into that tour and cut parts of that plant, even though it was in flowering, because they knew they could take it home, they could root it. They could re-veg it and they would have a cutting of that particular strain. And I know this because two years later I was sitting in positronics and a guy came in with some very hazy pot and I said, what is it?

1:46:14ToddHe said, it's Jack Harrow. And I said, really? And he said, I got it from the cutting from the Cannabis Castle tour myself. And I thought, you're an asshole, was what I thought. But That is an example of how that can happen because they never released that cutting to anyone. And it was in its big flowering beauty when we were there. And that was the day they christened it Jack Herrer.

1:46:40ToddI was standing next to Jack when it was christened Jack Herrer. And there were plants everywhere. But people did exactly what I'm saying. They went in, took a cutting, took it home, rooted it. Now they're growing it, and they're even proud of the fact that they stole it. And that would happen in another scenario in America, in my opinion. If Legal Producer One has a unique cutting, it is of value to go snip.

1:47:06ToddTake it home. Hey, I quit my job. Go to legal producer number two and go, I got that damn plant they're selling so many of. Here you go. And, you know, and in some ways legal producer number one should be able to say, hey, that's not right. You know, but if they're all selling clones of sour diesel, for instance, who cares? I mean, this is kind of like my example of it's in public domain and it will continue to be in public domain.

1:47:34SalomeBut this, you know, this raises some security issues, too, because if, like, that jack hair was out in the open, but if someone has really high, you know, high-producing genetics or valuable genetics, then you've got to have them in some sort of, like, safe system with high security, and then that just takes, like, this whole discussion to the, like, I understand why that would be needed, but...

1:47:58ToddAs an indoor grower, you have that anyway because you don't want to get ripped off.

1:48:02SpeakerThink about really valuable dogs that are bred, purebred dogs or horses. Don't you think they keep security around them? Don't you think they have to keep them from people stealing them? It's the same thing. Cannabis is worth more than horses and dogs, well, to me.

1:48:24SalomeYeah and this kind of like brings it back to Marcus what you were saying and what we've talked about too with regards to like calling people out and you know as a as a community I feel like kind of like your channel is almost like a Thank you so much for joining us.

1:49:01SalomeLike keeping people accountable just and and the one thing I want to add is like with some groups like the veterans group they're going against Metro right now there's a huge lawsuit and for that to kind of come into the open as well and and what Todd was saying regarding like producers you know and making sure that they're they're held accountable but how do we as a community balance that I'm going through that right now without saying too much but You know, Nick, that we... Can I say that in a way what's happening in California?

1:49:31ToddGo ahead, John.

1:49:32SpeakerThat's why it's called Hash Church because we do keep it on a very high level and it is a place where you can present the holy cause and the holy cause is get off our backs. We don't need a letter from our mom. We should all be allowed to grow this without any kind of... Uh tip of the hat to the government whatsoever. I mean people like Sam who spent his life making seeds should be able to sell them freely everywhere for what he deems is a fair price.

1:50:07SpeakerEverybody should be able to get it grown. Everybody should be able to uh have a way of getting concentrates done. This nonsense about control is all just about power and money, which they already have, and they want to continue to perpetuate it. It should be treated like any other agricultural crop. I mean, cigarettes now have over 200 chemicals in them, but they want to regulate pot so that there's nothing in it.

1:50:36SpeakerAnd, you know, I understand. I don't want anything in mine either, but there's a lot of odd habits Thank you for joining us.

1:51:02ToddThank you so much for joining us.

1:51:33ToddSafeguards put in place like Berkeley did with Berkeley Patients Group where they said, they stepped in and said, look, we realize there's no testing mechanism for the producers or the distributors really, but we need you to test your product so that we feel that you're not poisoning the citizens of Berkeley if we're going to let you sell your medical cannabis here. So that put them in a situation of having to facilitate that, which isn't a crazy thing to ask.

1:52:00ToddYou know what I mean? Can you certify that the stuff you're selling isn't harmful?

1:52:04Etienne FontanYeah, but it costs hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars in the end that you have to put forth voluntarily, just like Sam has done and others have done. You have to do that. But this is all going to change. That will no longer be the case. You're going to be expected now. Because the state now has followed suit and decided that we should, you know, that everybody should follow the same rules.

1:52:28Etienne FontanAnd that's a step forward for everybody. Because Berkeley patients.

1:52:32SpeakerSelf-regulation is coming. You were among the leaders in the thing of deciding to self-regulate in the first place. But it's coming. You know, when you make extractions, It's really important not to get stuff that's contaminated because it concentrates in the material. And I think we should start regulating that so that people are liable. When they bring you a bunch of flowers that are contaminated and you go through the trouble of extracting them, I think the flowers should be destroyed, the concentrate should be destroyed, but you should be We paid for doing what you did anyway and the producer who put the poison in the first place fined.

1:53:18SpeakerIt's got to go back to the old Roosevelt thing, the buck stops here. Yeah, but who pays you, John?

1:53:25ToddWhere does the money to pay the person come from? The test has to be done before the extraction. So you as an extraction company can't be naive and you can't process contaminated material and then cry victim. You have to process it before, you have to test it before you process it so you know that you're processing clean material. That's just...

1:53:44SpeakerListen, we started... We've started bundling a laboratory along with our extraction systems because we want people to be able to test the material and know. And the other big companies like Root Science and Asahi Glass have started bundling their system along with ours. They provide a Whatever you want to call it, a coupon so that you can get into their system to understand what's going on with the material.

1:54:17SpeakerAs an extraction company, you can't be responsible for what is being handed you to extract. But most of the other people who are interested in the extraction field who I've talked to are also interested in buying the analytical equipment at the same time.

1:54:35ToddBut when you say that, as an extraction company, you can be responsible for the material that you run. So you have to be the filter. When the material comes to you, you have to be like BPG. You accept it. You get it tested. And then if it clears, you extract it. If it doesn't clear, you call them up and say, you failed. Don't bring your product to me anymore.

1:54:55ToddNext. That's what has to happen.

1:54:58SpeakerYeah. Well, that's a little draconian. I mean, we can also say, hey, your product failed. You need to clean your act up before we can...

1:55:07ToddIt's not draconian. You're asking to... What you're proposing is that you get to process the contaminated material and then if it comes back tested dirty, you want to get paid for the process and you want the material destroyed. I think that's ridiculous when you can just take two grams of it, send it off to the lab and know before you extract... Thank you for joining us.

1:55:41SpeakerA whole bunch of people got eliminated from the cup after the fact, which I know you think is ridiculous, but nonetheless it happened because guess what? Real life is based on the ridiculous chaos.

1:55:53ToddCan I just say this about that, John? If I was going to put this cup of coffee in a contest and I knew that they were going to test the coffee at the contest, I bet your buns I would be testing my cup of coffee before I brought it down to the contest. But so many don't.

1:56:08BubblemanAnd they were going to test it too. But so many don't and so many didn't and failed and got bumped out of that. Like they failed a lot.

1:56:16SpeakerI'm not trying to argue the common sensuality of it, Todd. I fully agree it was a dumb idea and I'm all into testing. I don't do extractions or growing myself. I sell systems where people do it. And in order to make those systems make sense, they have to understand what they're doing. So we advocate every single time A complete analysis system because self-regulation is where it's got to start.

1:56:44SpeakerPeople only self-regulate first and then the reality of regulation rolls in and everybody has something to say about it because they've been self-regulating. And we advocate that strongly. But guess what? Not everybody wants to do that. And you can't, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink, man. That's why self-regulation doesn't work because everybody doesn't want to do it. The same reason as communism doesn't work.

1:57:10ToddWell, you know what, though? I was going to say this. What the Emerald Cup, for instance, did, I think, was really strong. The first time that it happened, they found it embarrassing. They did not report who the people were who failed. But then they came back the next time and said, hey, heads up. Don't put us in that position again. We are going to call out everybody.

1:57:27ToddThat fails because, you know what, this is where reputation matters. So don't put the Emerald Cup in a situation of having to embarrassingly enough disqualify half of the contestants because all that stuff was contaminated when it could have been as simply handled by the people that were coming to the contest, getting their stuff tested in the first place, and being confident that they wouldn't fail. And now I think you're going to see them not coming back with contaminated material because they know they can't get away with it.

1:57:56BubblemanYeah, well, how about protecting their, like, their, the name of their company to me seems like the most ridiculous thing. Let me mute your mic while you're coughing there, Andrew, it's loud. The most ridiculous thing to me is that we protect these people, that it's like we never, the cannabis people never want to throw anyone under the bus that's done very wrong. We're always just like, well, next time we might have to tell on you if you, it's like we are always so afraid.

1:58:24BubblemanTo just release this information of like, guess what? This motherfucker was spraying Eagle 20 on his shit. Blast his name from the rooftops. I don't know, it just seems like if you're going to do wrong and then get caught, then it's really not my responsibility to protect you from the community.

1:58:45ToddSomebody just asked if there was stuff that could be on a plant that wouldn't show up in testing of the plant but would come back in concentration in the extract. My short answer is I actually don't know. I know that I was really blown away when Rob Clark came with a list of products that contained a growth hormone that he felt put someone he knew in the hospital.

1:59:08ToddSam, if you could elaborate on that. It has been put into a lot of the hardening and the bulking up products that go as one of the additional nutrients that you can buy. And really, it's full of a product that actually does pass through into the extract. And when it is in the extract, it is toxic to humans if you breathe it in and if you eat it.

1:59:32ToddSam, do you remember which one that was?

1:59:35SpeakerNo, I'm afraid to... I don't remember the chemical names so well because I don't ever use them, ever.

1:59:42ToddI'll get it from Rob next time I talk to him, but it's something we could talk about because that is a real issue. This is where we have to now turn to the nutrient manufacturers in a knowledgeable way and say, hey, don't put this stuff in our product because the problem we have now is we're an unregulated industry and they can almost do whatever they want to us.

2:00:04ToddGo ahead, John.

2:00:06SpeakerWas it a hydrocarbon-based product, Todd?

2:00:10ToddYou know, I've got to look into it more.

2:00:14SpeakerSomething like that. What was that, Sam? I said it was something like P.U.B.s, but I'm sure I'm not saying it right.

2:00:23ToddI will know next week, and I will talk to Rob. Well, we won't be able to get him on next week, but I'll talk to Rob.

2:00:31SpeakerWell, if it wasn't a hydrocarbon-based product, it won't come through in a hydrocarbon extraction. But if it was a hydrocarbon-based product, yes, it certainly will come and concentrate in a hydrocarbon extraction. I just don't know. I had not heard of that before you said it, so...

2:00:54ToddI will get all the information from you because it is something you'd like to know, John, because it definitely concerns extractors because it pulls through and it has a reaction to our nervous system, I do believe. Put a guy in ER.

2:01:08SpeakerOne thing, too, is this has been a very serious hash church or a fairly serious one. How about bomb rip?

2:01:20BubblemanYes. I got some.

2:01:22DrSam Tech Hasha. I can't believe you said that. It's awesome.

2:01:27Etienne FontanYeah, what's everybody toking on today, flavor-wise?

2:01:31SpeakerTangy.

2:01:33DrI got some of the best dry sift, pine tarcush.

2:01:40Etienne FontanWell, that's going to be hot.

2:01:41DrAfter the separation.

2:01:42Etienne FontanOh, I have some very nice tangy by a grower that I know. Makes good hash.

2:01:50BubblemanThat is hot. I left my dabber, my carb cap, on top of the mothership for a very long time. I'm glad I didn't go to grab that with my fingers. I was smart enough to know.

2:02:02SpeakerHey, everybody. Say hi to Natasha.

2:02:06BubblemanHey, what's going on, Natasha?

2:02:08DrI forgot to say hi, Natasha.

2:02:11BubblemanWelcome back. I feel like it's been forever since we saw you in Hash Church.

2:02:17SpeakerHello. Hey, Chash. Hi, Salome. It was wonderful to see you on this morning. It was interesting because I was thinking like, oh, I keep telling Salome I'm going to tell everyone about a wonderful conference coming up. And then today I was like, OK, I got to say something. And then it was wonderful to see you on here. And I was like, yes, she's finally letting everybody know about the ding.

2:02:40SpeakerYeah, so I'll also be playing a big role in this conference. I can't remember all of the exact times and dates, but I'll be doing talk about gut health and how cannabis can help patients with not only inflammatory bowel disease, but other gut issues like Thank you so much for joining us.

2:03:16SpeakerSo I'll be talking about that for about 15 minutes. And then I'll also be part of a medical panel with Dr. Ethan Russo, just doing Q&A and seeing what people want, need, what info they need from us. And then my husband and business partner, David Remillard, will be doing a session on teaching people how to make cannabis topicals for pain relief, but also for beauty. So it's going to be a two hour session.

2:03:44SpeakerIt's going to be Nice and long. So I think I'm going to do kind of a PowerPoint, teach people about how the endocannabinoid system is also found in our skin. It plays a role in the epithelial cells. So those are the cells that are found lining the skin and how they can grow and regulate themselves. But also it plays a role in our immune system in our skin.

2:04:06SpeakerSo there's little immune cells like dendritic cells that can actually like stick their little arms and sample the environment and play a role in inflammation all along our skin. I have cannabinoid receptors. They respond to cannabis compounds such as THC and CBD. So I'll be talking a little bit about that and also some things about different other plants that can also target the endocannabinoid system and work together to make cannabis work better.

2:04:33SpeakerSo we'll be doing some recipes about some basic like pain relief stuff people can make at home. And then we're going to do some more complex things. So my husband, Dave, he's familiar with making rosin extracts that like heat pressed cannabis that we then use for making stronger topicals. So we'll be sharing how we do that and how patients can do that at home to make really strong pain relief, like shoulder pain.

2:05:01SpeakerThat's what our recipes mostly been developed for. So yeah, we'll be sharing that information. So really looking forward to doing that. Dr. Natasha, hey, I've got a sample for you of the hemp seed oil and the hemp seed isolate that I'd like to send you if you can send me to my email, a physical address to send it back through that we just made. Wonderful. I also have samples of some of our base blends.

2:05:29SpeakerThey don't have cannabis in them, but yeah, I've sent some to Mark. Okay. Well, that's one of our examples. Salome's tried. I have to grab my pain blends, though. These are my beauty blends. I love all your products. I need the most help on the beauty side as I possibly can get, so that's why I need the beauty supplement.

2:05:48SalomeOh, so Salome, yeah, you've got the pain blends. I love your Riz Remy brand and we're so excited for this one. Your workshop is almost full and so whoever is watching this and wants to get involved with the Topicals workshop, it's going to be super exciting. And this is another valuable one because it's empowering. People can make their own selves at home and just like Todd was saying and Etienne was saying, When you grow your own plants, there's therapeutic aspects of it.

2:06:18SalomeWhen you're making your own topicals and really nourishing yourself and your body that way, that's another level of healing right there. And so thank you so much for coming and sharing your wisdom and to David as well, especially with other plants too. This one is my favorite, you guys. It's the ginger root and vanilla bean. And it's so warming.

2:06:42BubblemanI use the cream. I'm not sure which one it is. Not the big baby cream one, but the small glass jars ones that you passed on, and they are on point for sure. I used it in the Caribbean on my kids' burnt skin and my own burnt skin on my nose, and it was just nice. It smells nice, it feels nice, and it just absorbs into the skin really nice.

2:07:06BubblemanI think that it's a pretty good product.

2:07:08DrI got the same thing from you, the Rise Remedy, the pain relief, and you told me how to use that, and I use it this morning on my arm. I have some weird pain in my arm because of the... Anyways, I've been using that as I'm smoking, like you suggested, and it works. I think it's... I have a lot to do with aromatherapy and terpenes and how they modulate.

2:07:30DrThank you for watching.

2:07:47SpeakerAwesome. And it's, yeah, I just want to say again to people listening, so there's no cannabis in the base blends I'm making right now, but they make your cannabis work better. So I've used different plant compounds that also work together with our cannabinoid system, and we're designing it so people can actually add their own. If they have a cannabis extract, they can add it to our blends.

2:08:09SpeakerIt will work That's how I make it for my husband, Dave. Unfortunately, I can't sell them like that at this point, maybe in the future. But for now, our baseball also works. So we're trying to... You can call it Jack.

2:08:26BubblemanThat's what my friend Todd calls his JAC, which is just add cannabinoids. Ah, that's a good one.

2:08:34DrWhat would you suggest on what I would add to say even like, you know, you said rosins. So with the sample bottle that you gave me, how much would you suggest I would use or your husband would suggest to use in a bottle like this so I can use it more for that application? Because I am smoking while I'm using it, like you said, but it would be nice to add that too.

2:08:54DrI didn't really think about that until now.

2:08:56SpeakerYeah, so what works really nice is if you have access to products that are already decarbed. So if you have even like I know some places in Vancouver you can buy like decarbed THC, CD, and like a syringe that's already ready to go. So if you have access to that, which I guess you probably do, that's perfect because you can just add it straight to the oil.

2:09:18SpeakerIt'll dissolve nice and there you go. The little rollerball lid that's on there, just be careful. It's hard to get off and on, so just you want to make sure not to spill your stuff if you're going to take that little lid off, but it is removable, so you could add your concentrate, shake it up, let it sit for a little bit, and you'll have a powered up pain blend.

2:09:40SpeakerNice.

2:09:40DrWell, I got some pure CBD Dissolant, actually, so that'd be kind of, that's what I would add to this. I think that's going to be my kind of goal behind that. I'm curious. I'll get back to you.

2:09:50SpeakerThe CBD will be, the CBD compounds are great for inflammation, but if you have pain, you need the THC also, so it's great if you can get a mix of both or... With the topical application of THC, you don't really need to worry as much about having psychoactive effects. If you put a high enough dose, you might get drowsy. That's been the experience we've had, but that's a nice effect.

2:10:16SpeakerIf you have pain and you put on at night, it'll help you relax. Even Salome has one of the Neroli orange blossom ones, and that one's made even just for like stress and anxiety. So I designed it to like rub onto your chest. And so even when I'm feeling like anxious, I'll just kind of rub it on. And I think also the practice of just, you know, giving yourself a massage is of course calming.

2:10:38SpeakerSo that whole ritual helps you calm down. You're smelling your aromatherapy. Can you demonstrate that process for us? Just like this. Live on Hash Church. This is the PG version. But no, even just like on your neck, like even on your hands. When I feel anxious, like when I have to do a presentation or something and your heart gets going and your, you know, like your voice starts shaking and you need ways to calm yourself down fast, like I even give my friends like who are researchers and doing talks and have a hard time with the public speaking and having little tricks to calm yourself down.

2:11:15SpeakerYes, they work, but there's also a mental tie. So like even little things I do, I press pressure points on my hands. So like I might be standing here pressing this pressure point where I know what I'm doing, but to someone looking at me, they don't know that I'm doing something to like calm myself down, but it really, really works for me personally. So it's like finding the little tricks that work for you and then integrating those into your everyday.

2:11:35SpeakerSo you're just finding little ways to... Where is that pressure point, by the way? There's one on your thumb here. Can you see that?

2:11:46BubblemanIf you press it, you'll feel it.

2:11:49SpeakerIt hurts.

2:11:52SpeakerIt hurts when you press it. So just press around on your thumb here and you'll feel it. It works really well, I find, for headaches also. It's not... Oh, this is amazing too, but if you're standing there before a talk doing this... People might wonder what you're up to. I find what's really good is when you release it, it makes a rush of blood to your head.

2:12:12SpeakerThis too, right here. There's a good one. And there's good ones on the back of your head. I give my husband this head massage when he's feeling anxious and it's like, oh, like, Self-massage.

2:12:25SalomeYeah, absolutely. And I think this says so much about the medicine, like the plant as well, because it's such a bio carrier. And ultimately, cannabis is balancing our systems and making us relax. Like if every human being on this planet was a bit more relaxed, I think we would get ourselves out of a lot of trouble.

2:12:44SpeakerWe wouldn't be bombing people, right?

2:12:46SalomeWouldn't be bombing people if you're relaxed.

2:12:49SpeakerI don't know. That's for self-massage. Religious crap, you know? Well, I'm relaxed. I just want to listen to Garcia, you know? Well, religion was brought in to regulate self-massage.

2:13:07DrWell, guys, I'm going to go relax at the Rockin' Jim show. I'm going to hang out with some crystals and stuff like that. So, peace and have a fantastic day, and we'll see you again next week.

2:13:16SpeakerSee you, Johnny.

2:13:17DrPeace out, Johnny B.

2:13:20BubblemanJohnny hurt self-massage and he was out of here.

2:13:26SalomeAnd before we move on from the conference, again, I just want to actually state the date, too. Maybe I didn't mention that May 6th and 7th, University of British Columbia, you can go to CannabisHempConference.com and check out all the speakers. Some of the speakers I want to highlight, of course, Marcus and Natasha are going to be there. Dr. Ethan Russo, it's so exciting. And Tash, you were actually a support in that.

2:13:52SalomeAnd Caroline, Dr. Caroline McCallum. And with a connection to Dr. Ethan Russo. So we're so excited to have Ethan with us. Graham Hancock is coming with one of my personal heroes. Can you believe it? Like, I'm just, I'm going to be such a star struck person at the conference. He's kind of like, I feel like a living Terrence McKenna of our time. Someone who is, you know, speaking the truth of autonomy and self, you know, self, um, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:14:43BubblemanYep. No, I saw that. He's definitely cool. I saw him recently say that cannabis was a huge turning point in his life and basically led him down the path of all the things he's researching these days. So I also thought that was pretty cool. I look forward to seeing him speak.

2:14:58SpeakerWhat is the theme of the conference? Is it focusing on a particular aspect or all aspects of cannabis?

2:15:07SalomeYeah. I felt like there was so much missing. Like I didn't even know a lot of the parts around genetics or the medicinal aspects or even hemp. So I tried to make it as comprehensive as possible. So there are 13 panels on, you know, I would feel everything cannabis and four workshops. So the cooking workshop is with Watermelon, our own activist. She's going to come and do a live cooking workshop.

2:15:33SalomeWe have a healthy edibles with Allison Drazen. And I think... I have confirmation also of, I can't think of her name right now, but she's amazing. She's coming. She's an athlete. So she does a lot of juicing. And our final, of course, workshop is, oh no, the second last one is the topicals with Natasha and David, of course. And then we also have a live growing. So it's going to be packed.

2:16:01SalomeAnd then we pass church on Sunday. It's going to be a packed conference.

2:16:04SpeakerWhat about genetics? Are you going to have anything on genetics?

2:16:08SalomeYeah, there are three people on the genetics panel. Right now we have Maugly Holmes coming in from Phylos Lab from Phylos Phyloscience in Portland. And we also have Breeder Steve. Speaking on that one, and the third person, so Chimera spoke last year because of the connection, Mark, and that was amazing. And this year, Dr. Page won't be in town, unfortunately, but I think the third presenter is going to be Calvin Thomas from White Buffalo Sea.

2:16:45BubblemanWow, Calvin. Interesting. Haven't seen him in years.

2:16:49SalomeI know it's a reunion. He's coming out. I was so happy when he confirmed.

2:16:54SpeakerVery cool. So you were able to get Ryan and Mowgli to behave together? Or did they not behave?

2:17:02SalomeRyan was last year and Mowgli is this year. That's how she did it.

2:17:09SpeakerRight, okay, that's how she did it. I was going to say, if those guys are on the same panel, boy, I'd love to be in that room.

2:17:16SalomeHey, next year, I hope it works out because, you know, we're all civil and if we show that we can be, you know, in heart and with peace with each other and bury some of those hatchets, I hope the rest of the community can see that and we can be ambassadors. So, absolutely.

2:17:30SpeakerIf you can accomplish that, you're going to need more than cannabis. You're going to need more than hatchets, too.

2:17:41SpeakerI know all the parties you're talking with. I know Ethan well. I know Mowgli well. I know John well. I've known all these guys for decades.

2:17:50SalomeNice. Sam, you gotta come out. Are you gonna, how about for next week?

2:17:54SpeakerI don't go to Canada. It's just, it's full of beavers.

2:18:00BubblemanActually, we won't let him into the country. We're just like, he can't get into Canada.

2:18:04SpeakerLast time I tried to get in, they refused me. And I had to go rent a car and drive in.

2:18:11SalomeOkay. Hey, that's a possibility. Just stop by in Seattle and drive up with Ethan. And same with ATN next year and Todd. Todd, with your release of your case, are you able to travel up now?

2:18:25ToddNo, because three cases ago I was convicted by the federal government and I did five years in federal prison and I'm pretty sure that they're going to turn me in. There's no way. No way. Not that the last three prosecutions are the hindrance. I think it's the warrant.

2:18:44SalomeOh man, Todd, so much respect. So much respect. We'll definitely have to get somehow maybe over Skype again.

2:18:52ToddYeah, I would always do anything for you like that on Skype, you know. And, you know, it's funny though, I think that I'm so happy to kind of watch people kind of come together and stuff. I feel like I've heard myself speak a million times now, so I'm really glad to be, you know, in the audience and watching other people and draw inspiration from others because You know, when I first got into this, it was a real small crowd of loudmouths trying to talk to people about cannabis.

2:19:17ToddAnd, you know, now everybody's an expert. So I just sit back and laugh. But I really do enjoy it. And I learn a lot. And I think that You know, give other people their stage time.

2:19:28SpeakerYou were mentioning Jonathan Page and Mowgli Holmes. The other two, of course, is Nolan Kane from University of Boulder, I think, in Colorado. And the other one is, of course, Kevin McKinnon, who's having this conference in Massachusetts.

2:19:55SalomeAwesome. Thank you so much for those names.

2:19:58SpeakerI don't know if any of them want to go, but they are the top four genetics people, far beyond me, although I understand cannabis. Well, I think you're selling Ryan short. I would put Ryan right up there with everybody else. Yeah, but he was there last year, and I was talking about new people. Oh, new people. I'm sorry. I know Ryan fairly well.

2:20:22SalomeNice, yeah, thank you so much. The genetics is definitely fascinating and these panels are 30 minutes long, you know, they're just kind of bursts, but I hope that in future years we can, you know, dedicate like half a day to genetics and really delve in and really get into, you know, some of the social and historical backgrounds of the seeds and where they came from. Another speaker is the medicine hunter.

2:20:45SalomeWe have Chris Kilham. Who is epic. He's kind of a celebrity in the United States. Dr. Oz. And he has traveled the Silk Route and kind of, you know, gathered the history and the stories from there. So his talk will be fascinating. And of course, Andrea Herman, leading expert on hemp, talking about the hemp industry and the updates on what's going on. And Joy Beckerman. Joy was on the show.

2:21:08SalomeSo shout out to Joy as well.

2:21:12SpeakerWe're just going to be at, by the way, again?

2:21:14SalomeAt the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. So it's a huge thing for them to open their doors to us. And it's in the nest. It's a completely LEED certified building. It's one of the greenest buildings in the world. It's a super nice venue.

2:21:30SpeakerDo I have to buy a ticket? Is it a ticket?

2:21:35SalomeAnd 10% of the proceeds will go to the Amazon Coalition organization. And let's see what happens. Let's see what we need to do in regards to, and Tash, I was talking a little bit and Todd a little bit about like the vision of this conference is actually to support projects in, or just protection, protection of the Amazon. And I'm not sure how that's going to end up happening, but a lot of the proceeds are going to go to that.

2:22:00SalomeAnd let's see if we actually make proceeds this year. I'm really... Aiming to make this a sustainable event and like Marcus was saying, really make it so that we become, you know, big movers of this wealth energy and so we can put it into the right place.

2:22:17SpeakerWell, you know what? Nothing adds to value of an export better than processing it right exactly on the spot where it's at. I make a system that could extract every kind of nut, seed, berry, and flower that's around in South America. And instead of selling them loads of seeds and loads of bark and loads of flowers, You know, you guys could be doing all that right at home, right there on the spot and adding and having value added products that you sell on the world market that are already being hawked by the other people who buy the loads of bark and seeds and flowers and stuff from you and sell them.

2:23:03SalomeYeah, yeah.

2:23:06SpeakerI'd definitely be looking into that. I do have some people from Columbia that are interested in buying some machines. I'm just a little dubious about what it is they want to use them for. But I think that South America has to be saved. They want to extract coffee, Indra? Say what? They want to extract coffee, right? That was the story I got. But anyway, moving along. The South America is being sold off for far less than what it's really worth.

2:23:48SpeakerAll the stuff from there is being sold off cheap. Your jungles are being eviscerated to grow one particular thing of pine cooking oil, which is You know, detrimental to everything there just about. All the missions that are there to save orangutans are to save them from these people who are cutting the trees down to replant it with the palm tree for the nut oil.

2:24:18SpeakerI know it's big money. These people can buy the land cheap somehow, and they can afford to expand. They not only buy the land cheap, but these palm oil plantations intimidate, shoot, and kill, and do everything that was done during the cowboy era by the railroads in this country in order to obtain new land to plant on. They'll run farmers off, burn their Burn them out. The stories that I've seen and heard about it are pretty abysmal.

2:24:50SpeakerHow do you stop guys that come in with machine guns and just kill everybody who is there and then there's no one to complain? So what do you, you know, there's that level of stuff going on in South America all the time. And the corruption thing is a tough nut to crack. And how are you going to, you know, how do we crack the corruption nut there?

2:25:13SpeakerEspecially when they've learned from experts in USA.

2:25:18SalomeYeah. Yeah, it's true. I went to Peru the previous year and there was a gentleman there, Don Howard, who had secured 200 acres of all these different tropical plants including a lot of ayahuasca because ayahuasca sustainability is the issue right now too. Tons of people are cutting the vine really early and it's not able to get to its full growth and he was saying that he can't protect his land because Thank you so much.

2:26:10SpeakerI see that you can go on Amazon now, which is kind of a The ironic thing and order five pound boxes of the material to make ayahuasca from at home. And they just separate it. You can buy the vine here. You can buy various different kinds of leaves and our seeds to extract the MAO inhibitor and on like that. And I don't know if that's a sign of success or a scary finger pointing at the fact that it's getting out of hand because you can buy it Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:26:57SpeakerThat you haven't been looking at yourself. And even though you thought you might've been wearing new nice clothes when you do ayahuasca and turn around, you might be dressed horribly. And you might have realized of all the pain and suffering that you brought in the world through misunderstanding greed and not really thinking with your heart. But on the other hand, you can buy it on Amazon. My God, what is that doing to the source of it in the Amazon?

2:27:24SalomeYeah, absolutely. And I feel that, you know, there's definitely a phenomena of the, you know, the ayahuasca being able to reach so many different countries right now before, you know, the time of Terrence McKenna, Dennis McKenna, Kathleen Harrison, they had to go deep into the jungles to be able to get this medicine. And now it's reaching a lot of us. But also, yeah, the way that it's coming out.

2:27:47SalomeBut the thing with ayahuasca is like cannabis is Thank you so much.

2:28:14SalomeAt least from my experience from what we've talked about with just ayahuasca in Canada and in the United States, it's not an easy thing. That karma happens really, really fast with that plant and you don't get away with a lot of stuff. Cannabis, you know, she's a little bit more generous and more forgiving.

2:28:35SpeakerWell, ayahuasca is a bell and it's a loud bell. And the thing of it is when it rings, I don't care where you are and what you're doing. When you hear it, it makes your inner bell tone up with it. And that's the bell of truth. And it's hard to escape. That's what most of the intacto gyms and the psychedelics do. They remove all the BS and all the conditioning.

2:28:58SpeakerThat had been put there by your mom, your dad, your brother, your sister, your local priest, the milkman, and any other myriad number of people who've had a good, bad, or otherwise effect on your life. And you take this thing for the first time, you're freed of all of everyone else's ideas of who you are. And that's the undressing of the self and the real looking and seeing and knowing who and what you are.

2:29:28SpeakerAnd in that moment is where you start buying into and understanding love of the self, you know, and that's what people aren't taught anymore. And that's why it was such a sacred thing in South America with the wish arrows and all the medicine men that were doing it because they understood that this was an undressing of themselves. People look at them and go, hey, you're in the jungle and you're wearing a little mat and you got feathers in your hair.

2:29:58SpeakerWell, guess what? Turns out that was all it took to make them happy.

2:30:03SalomeYeah, exactly. Just stripping everything down, like you said, stripping the traumas, the beliefs, the desires, the fears, stripping all of that down so we get to our core and can really step into that higher purpose that we all have and we're all here for a reason on this planet. I feel that the plants are really supporting that self-healing process. Like we're all doctors. We all know what our bodies need and no more reliance on bigger things.

2:30:31SalomeWe can go to each other for support and expert and exchange of ideas. But I think ayahuasca is ultimately saying, and the other plant medicines, mushrooms, peyote, San Pedro, you know, all of them have that same kind of initiation. And same with cannabis, like Santa Maria. Definitely that self-healing and self-care that comes with her. And I just wanted to add one more thing about this liberation movement.

2:30:58SalomeThe other thing around like saying that cannabis, we need to liberate cannabis. In actuality, we're just liberating ourselves, like you said, from all those masks and all those, you know, conditioning and social order and things like that. So the faster we liberate ourselves, the faster we can get to a place of balance in our hearts and be able to be at ease.

2:31:21SpeakerYou have to remember that When you first go to a nudist camp, your first time taking off all your clothes isn't the easiest of things to do. And as a race, humanity is standing at the place where we want to shed these masks and we want to let go of these preconceptions that we were all loaded with since birth and that the elite have spent so much time and effort reinforcing us through schools, through ads, through what they call programming, On TV.

2:31:56SpeakerBut we are at a precipice where everybody is ready to take their clothes off and get in the hot tub at the same time. And I think it's important that we finally get to that point. And everybody is going to give up the idea of being afraid of being rejected in that moment and understand. Only if the hot tub is filled with chocolate flavored hot dog water.

2:32:20SpeakerAnd no looks. I like it better with pickles. Well, there should be a thing on the side of the hot tub with what everybody likes and what everybody needs in order to feel okay.

2:32:32Etienne FontanI was about to say, y'all stay on my hot tub with that pickles and chocolate shit.

2:32:37SpeakerYeah, there's going to be people who want to pray to that too, Tim. What are you going to do? How many Starbucks do you think there are worldwide? When there's that many star OSCA places, maybe we'll see the light. It'll be more like how many McDonald's are worldwide because McDonald's is far more invasive than Starbucks. I definitely want to order an Ayahuasca Grande someday at my local Starbucks.

2:33:10SpeakerThat would be wonderful, wouldn't it?

2:33:11SalomeOkay, maybe that won't be as enjoyable, but let's aim for at least like micro LSD at some beautiful, or like micro psilocybin, definitely. I feel like hopefully that'll be the future of our, you know, beautiful psychedelic salons. But with ayahuasca, I don't know if you want a latte.

2:33:30Etienne FontanYeah, that would be Starbucks.

2:33:35SpeakerI'm just trying to add some comic levity to the conversation, that's all.

2:33:39BubblemanStar Wash, though, is pretty funny.

2:33:41SpeakerBut hey, Philosopher's Stones now. If we could just teach everybody to grow their own Philosopher's Stones at home. You just grow them in a jar and man, are they, talk about pure silicon. They are the cat's pajamas of mushrooms. You'd like it here in the Netherlands, Indra. You can buy them through the post. They're 100% legal. My wife gets them delivered to our house. Hey, could you do me a favor and buy a bunch, grind them up, and put them in a bag and label it cactus fertilizer and send it to me?

2:34:13SpeakerUh, sure. Uh-huh. No, I will not do that. Oh, I knew you wouldn't. That's why I asked. But anyway. I already said 100 kilos yesterday. Good. I already been to the Netherlands and that's where I learned to love them. I was there once alone getting visas to everybody in India because I lost the flip of the coin. And I walked into a smart shop and the guy showed me and I said, that little walnut is a citizen.

2:34:43SpeakerHe's like, yeah. And I said, okay, give me four of those. And I was wandering around all day long in Amsterdam. So damn high. But everybody had a smile on their face and I had nothing but a good time while I was doing it. And I just totally got it. I took a whole bunch of them back to India with me. They dried out. My wife micro doses those every day.

2:35:06SpeakerBut occasionally, because she likes to go play tennis and stuff, occasionally she will take a little too much and she says, then the balls leave trails when she's playing.

2:35:16ToddThat's awesome.

2:35:18SpeakerWell, that shows you where you should have been.

2:35:21BubblemanBy that point, I will only say this about eating mushrooms in Amsterdam. I wouldn't ever do it again. That city has some energy going on in it. I don't know if it was from when they were burning witches or what, but there's some heavy fucking energy going on in the city of Amsterdam. I prefer to be in a forest on the West Coast, you know, just like hanging out with friends, trustworthy, maybe a little fire burning, but the city and tripping out hard on mushrooms in that city definitely left.

2:35:49SpeakerMaybe that's why she likes microdosing. So I was literally... I just realized everybody is your friend. As soon as you get over the fact that everybody can be your friend while you're dosing on mushrooms in the middle of the city, is A-OK. I had the best time ever. I didn't know any of those damn people. I was completely alone all day long.

2:36:10ToddSo mushrooms became legal in Amsterdam in 1996, and I happened to be living there at the time. And there was a place that started doing these themed evenings. It was called Mystere 2000. And they would have an open where they would open from 9 to 10 and you would get in line and get in and then they would close the door at 10. There was no new admittance.

2:36:33ToddThank you so much for joining us.

2:36:57ToddAnd had tea placed on their table. And it was a freaking magnificent experience because it was the first time I was ever at a psychedelic nightclub where there was no alcohol being served at all whatsoever. You could roll joints. That wasn't a problem. It was a collective tripping. Like everybody at the place was drinking from the same teapot, so to speak. And it was unbelievable. We were having conversations with each other from across the room because it caused us to not be in harmony.

2:37:27SpeakerI was there that night.

2:37:29ToddWere you? The very first night. You were talking to yourself. Oh, you're fucking killing me. No, it was great. You know, and that was amazing. It's like somebody stood up and was like, I'd like to read a poem. And the whole frigging room shut up and looked at them. And they read their poem. I was like, yeah, that's great. And they went right back to what they were doing.

2:37:49ToddIt was like this collective consciousness like I've never seen. Was that place open in 98? Mystere 2000? It might have been. I wasn't living there. I moved out of there at the very end of the last week of 96. I moved back to California. But it was open that year, and over time, the mushroom laws changed. Like Sam's saying now, you can't buy dried mushrooms. You can only buy fresh mushrooms, and you have to take them home and buy them yourself.

2:38:17SpeakerOr the monster fresh stones. Hmm? Well, I went to a, they used to hold these ayahuasca journeys when I would, in the late 90s, I went there. And I went to one, the first one I went to, unfortunately, was right next to a tantric sex class. And the big, tall Swedish blonde abducted me out of the ayahuasca line into the tantric sex line. But the next time I went, To the ayahuasca class, it was quite the thing.

2:38:52SpeakerThere was a whole bunch of people in the room, and they had throw-up buckets everywhere. And they were giving people dose by dose, you know, and then you would throw up. Was that the ones done by Yantra? Yeah, Yantra, yeah, yeah. She was my next-door neighbor. She was one crazy lady. I really enjoyed talking with her. The first one I went to, her and I got into an extended wrap because after everybody had dosed out to the max, her and I went off to the side and had three or four more cups, and we got really blasted together.

2:39:32SpeakerOne amazing person. And she was amazed that I wasn't thrown up. You know, I was a 38-year vegetarian at that point. Thank you for watching.

2:39:54SpeakerIt was great being that high because I could see over each person and below each person was a mandala and that mandala was transmitting the energy through their body to the floor and back and I could see by all the different colors of the mandala different energies of the people that were in the room and afterwards I thought everybody was seeing that. And when I talked to her about it, she was explaining to me that I was at a level where I could see that, which is a level that you have to achieve by feeling okay within yourself to be at that level.

2:40:33SpeakerAnd I was just there because I was a bliss pig. So what can I say?

2:40:38SalomeYeah, amazing. Yeah, it's amazing what spaces we can get into if our bodies are clean, our minds are clean, our hearts are pure and, you know, being able to see all the beauty that's, you know, between us and the energy that's between us. And I think with, you know, those psychedelic, you know, Like Todd was saying with psychedelic nightclubs and like even Burning Man, some places of Burning Man definitely have that energy.

2:41:04SalomeAyahuasca ceremony, especially when they're done right with reverence and respect. There's a lot that, you know, we can access and from that place of access, then we can be able to shine our hearts brighter. If you take it, do you throw up? And yeah at the beginning of my journeys with ayahuasca I was purging a lot and like imagine I was assisting too so I would be for the first half of the ceremony she would take me out and I would be purging and going into like my trauma and relationships with my parents or you know family members clearing those like having compassion and forgiveness for myself and others and then It would be like halfway through the ceremony and then she'd be like, get up.

2:41:47SalomeAnd then she would say, okay, go sit with that person. Or I would have to help the purge bucket of someone else or take them out because people are obviously, you know, not, not totally in their, in control of their body. And, and it's a, you know, it's a, I honor everybody who steps into that space with psychedelics because it does take immense amounts of courage and, but it's also empowering.

2:42:09SalomeI'll tell you guys a story of what happened one time with, with ayahuasca that showed me like empowerment. During one of the ceremonies, her vines came up around me and she was like, and she came up all the way to my throat and she held me really strong at the throat and she was like, I own you, right? And I was like, no, you don't own me.

2:42:30SalomeWe're in this together. This is like co-evolution, co-collaboration. And she, the vines opened up and it was like, And it was all flowers around me and she just looked at me with that snake energy that oftentimes she comes through and she was like, just kidding, just checking, you know, and so I feel like plants don't want us to necessarily just give up our power again to some sort of belief or idea or guru or whatever, you know, I feel like they're just, you know, inviting us to step into that space within ourselves of like, okay, integrity, honesty, compassion, care, and that's that.

2:43:15BubblemanIt's the cannabis way. I sure have learned a lot about those things from my relationship with cannabis, I will not lie.

2:43:26SalomeYeah, and you've been working like with mushrooms since you were super, super young. So that activation and initiation came at such a young age for you. And it's so cool to see like two different plants co-emerging within a person too.

2:43:41BubblemanAbsolutely. I definitely learned a lot from eating mushrooms with a certain group of friends back in the day. The way we came about it sort of from the school of Terence McKenna and just paying more attention to the trip than just, you know, going out to bars or concerts and eating psychedelics. The way I did as well to a degree and the way more of my friends did it, but a small core group of us looked at it as something that we were like, we wanted to give more respect to.

2:44:08BubblemanWe wanted to take it out of the realm of recreational and get into the realm of potentially therapeutic experiences that could occur while on higher doses of these.

2:44:19SpeakerI was just going to say that a lot depends on the level because Here in the Netherlands, I mean, and most of Europe, the doses of LSD, for example, they're disco. They're 50 mics or something. You understand? They're not 250 micrograms, which will give almost anybody a clear light experience. Yeah. The full-blown removal of the ego. Dump a little bit more in here. Dump a little bit more.

2:44:55SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:45:21SpeakerIt's true enough that it's so powerful you go unverbal and for hours I was only seeing colors come out of people's mouths and sounds didn't make any sense to me. But also I wasn't afraid while it was happening. I was just in awe. If there was a you, an I, then you can get higher.

2:45:48SpeakerWhen I took over 10,000 mics, I couldn't tell when my feet were touching the ground. I couldn't tell there was an I or a me. I was way beyond all those.

2:46:03BubblemanYeah, that's what we call a psychotic dose, Sam.

2:46:08SpeakerNo, no, I had a good time. My wife was with me, so she gave me a ride home. I slept that night. And the next morning I went back to the Brotherhood of Eternal Love party in Laguna Beach and rocked and rolled. And this was an accident. You didn't on purpose take 10,000. No, absolutely I did not. A friend of mine in the Brotherhood, I said, can I have some of your orange juice?

2:46:34SpeakerAnd he says, have as much as you like. And I took it. And then his eyes got really big because I drank about half of it. And he goes, there was 100 hits of orange sunshine in that. Jesus. What a wonderful surprise, huh?

2:46:50ToddWhat a convenient time to disclose that after the extraction.

2:46:53BubblemanSeriously. Seriously. Have as much as you want. I can't believe you drank so much.

2:47:02SpeakerHow inconvenient that you don't like the Grateful Dead. Oh, my God. No, the Grateful Dead were not playing at that particular gig. Oh.

2:47:12DrI'm sure you heard some other cousins.

2:47:14SpeakerYou know, I vaguely remember the group, but it was a concert, 1969, Christmas, in Laguna Canyon, held by the Brotherhood of Eternal Love. It was surrounded by the police, and they wouldn't let anybody else enter it after the first day. But I took a dirt bike and went in through the back, and I went the second day in.

2:47:37SpeakerSo was it Family Dog or Quicksilver? No, no, it was Bricks. It was sponsored by the Brotherhood of Eternal Love in Laguna Beach. That's who put it on. I'm just trying to come up with the band. I'm trying to figure out, based on the era and being in California, what band it could have possibly been. Well, a bunch of people said they were going to play, but to be honest, I was too high.

2:48:00SpeakerI missed it.

2:48:04SpeakerSam was so high, he wasn't too high.

2:48:06SalomeI have no idea who it was. You weren't a nine. That's it. We'll have to.

2:48:11SpeakerWe'll have to add this as another acid test, Sam's acid test.

2:48:16BubblemanHe was so high. He was really only Higa-inch because the I from high was gone. He was just HGH. That's high.

2:48:26SpeakerI did go to a concert in Northern California about that time with Quicksilver Messenger Service was the star of the concert, which was a very interesting concert, quite a jam. Cool. I have a bunch of photographs from it. I didn't take them because, again, I was too high. How many of you have blotter art? And I collected photographs of that event.

2:48:54BubblemanI had a few pieces years ago. I let them go, but I kind of thought it was the very coolest thing, especially back in the day when it was kind of like... Like crazy. Like to have it, it was like mandatory 10-year minimums. Now it's like you can buy that shit on eBay and stuff, but like not like actively like a thousand lot or a hundred lot that is actually acid, not just the paper that they make the art with.

2:49:19BubblemanSo yeah, blotter art's cool.

2:49:22SpeakerI support it. Used to be able to buy a number 10 can of LSD from the research labs online before it became illegal. It was quite easy to buy one gram, four grams, 15 grams, 20 grams. There was about a dozen different labs making it when it first came out.

2:49:41BubblemanWell, I had a friend who would get it in pure grams and then he would turn it into like 9,000 to 10,000 hits and usually into liquid and sometimes from there he would go and blotter it out. But I got to be around the process watching it get broke down and I'll tell you, Never was I more paranoid about accidentally getting dosed because these little crystals were seriously fucking powerful.

2:50:06BubblemanYou could not believe how many hits can fit in the smallest, tiniest little bit of this, you know, pulverized crystal.

2:50:13SpeakerBack in the old, old days when I was around, you know, the stone age, the One gram made 4,250 microgram doses. That's exactly what I was going to say, Sam.

2:50:28BubblemanWell, in the 90s, they were making 10,000 hits, and that was my friend who was doing it like that. There were people doing it 12,000 and higher.

2:50:36ToddLet me preface this by saying, these are blanks, so please, federal government, come on, break it out. This is one of my, Tim Larry's, and if you look really close, you'll see that it's all little four ways.

2:50:55BubblemanYeah.

2:50:56ToddYou know, we used to go to the dead shows and try to get our own liquid so that we could then apply it ourselves. We've got the Mad Hatter.

2:51:05BubblemanBeautiful.

2:51:06ToddYeah. And one of my favorites is actually Alice in Wonderland, but it's double-sided and reversed. So she is looking through the looking glass. Which is just fucking so cool.

2:51:24SpeakerYeah, and then these are all, of course, little micro. So, Todd, the first thing I'm going to say, of course, is, well, that's pretty cool acid art, but aren't there any with cannabis leaves?

2:51:37ToddI have not experienced them yet. And then I keep them in an old copy of The Emperor Wears No Clothes that's actually 100% hemp. Ah, the 11th.

2:51:46BubblemanHave you all seen this? I bought that one. It was 100 US dollars.

2:51:50ToddYeah, he only made a thousand copies and he used all the money for the initiative that he was working on at the time.

2:51:55BubblemanYou know what, I'm kind of bummed that my partners kept it. I'm not going to lie. That was one of those things where I bought, I put it in the pot, but when everything was sort of going and falling apart, I kind of felt like, hey, I wouldn't mind keeping that. But it's in my ex-partner's collection, so it still exists.

2:52:14ToddYeah, that's an epic piece of history. It was the second time we made a hemp emperor. The first time the ink didn't really attach to the paper so well. I have one of them somewhere too.

2:52:26BubblemanYeah, because wasn't there one that had hemp paper all along the outside of the... I'll show you.

2:52:33ToddThis one, yeah.

2:52:35Etienne FontanYeah, I have one too. It's his, he gave to me for my wedding anniversary. That's awesome. For my wedding in Amsterdam. He gave me one and he signed it and it's, I even got a little hip cover. Yeah, that one.

2:52:47BubblemanYes, that one exactly. I always trip on that paper.

2:52:51ToddThe paper didn't want to absorb the ink so good, the paper we used. So we felt like this was a fail, to be really blunt, honest with you. This did not come out in a way that Jack was really happy, but it was our first attempt.

2:53:09BubblemanNot to take away from your wedding gift, Etienne. Oh, I love it. I'm just joking.

2:53:15SpeakerYou can print on hemp paper because we printed 12 different journals, 1,000 copies each one on pure hemp paper.

2:53:25ToddThey were beautiful, and I almost had a full collection of them, but that was just to fuck up with the printer and the paper and the ink. But this one was the second run of it, and it came out absolutely perfect. We were really, really, really happy with these. I'm sad that there was such a limited amount. Was that second one on hemp paper also? Not only hemp paper, but this is also hemp, 100% hemp.

2:53:49ToddEvery bit of this is hemp. The cardstock is everything. This is an amazing book. I can't believe you don't have one of these, actually.

2:53:58SpeakerMaybe I do. I should go look. I've got about five or six different versions of it. I've got the original one, but I'm not sure if I have one of those or not.

2:54:10ToddEverybody should read it. Everybody would be inspired by it. I mean, not everything was 100% right, and some things were a little over-exaggerated, but...

2:54:20SpeakerBut what it did was it kicked off a lot of people's...

2:54:23ToddIt was a point of inspiration for so many.

2:54:26SpeakerAbsolutely true, even if it was a little fuzzy on the facts.

2:54:32BubblemanThat's okay. It built excitement in a way that nothing I had ever seen in that particular arena, the cannabis arena, and it just lit fires under us in ways that while we were taking these mushrooms and listening to Terrence, we found Jack at the same time. So it was kind of like boom, boom, bam.

2:54:52ToddSomebody asked if the ink was hemp, and it was not. It was a soy-based ink, which is why the first time we had absorption problems, but the second time it went perfect. You may well still be able to find hardback Emperor Wears No Clothes that are hemp.

2:55:07SpeakerOur hemp journalists never printed with hemp ink. I can honestly say that.

2:55:15BubblemanWell, apparently the guy who made the ink was himself made out of hemp. Scone Park is saying, so that's got to count for something. I like the comedy sometimes. Little things that the timing is right and it's just funny. Why not? You know, it's good. It's a good thing.

2:55:32SpeakerFor instance, BHO made a real bang in the world. I'll tell you, man. That joke blows.

2:55:40BubblemanThat one might be in poor class because people did blow up. But I see the humor in it. You know what? I'm of the school of George Carlin where anything can be funny if said properly and with the right timing. And that guy said some shit that I think people couldn't believe he was saying when he actually said it. You know, if you go back far enough to when he was first saying these things.

2:56:03ToddR.I.P. George Carlin.

2:56:05BubblemanR.I.P. I will say that. He was a class act.

2:56:10SpeakerHe was awesome. Lenny Bruce.

2:56:15BubblemanYeah, well Lenny Bruce was his big inspiration, was it not?

2:56:18SpeakerYeah, absolutely true. You would be surprised how many people way long ago were imbibing Indra's BHO. The list is long and lengthy and full of big time people. I don't brag about it though. Won't do any good. No one gives a shit. They know who they are. And I love turning people on.

2:56:43BubblemanI love turning on everyone. I just, whether it's connected to me or not, I just love the idea of everyone having this access to this wonderful plant, whether it's a concentrate, even if it's a concentrate that I don't smoke, I would still fight for their right to have access to it and be turned on to it because it's just a wonderful thing, you know, getting turned on to cannabis and being able to use it as a guiding light in your life or even just being able to use it as a companion in your life.

2:57:09BubblemanThere's true value there and obviously from the 133 hash churches we've Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:57:44SpeakerHigher than the Himalayas. Deeper than the Mariana Trench. And able to jump us. Wait a minute, wait a minute. They say the neon lights are bright on Broadway.

2:57:57BubblemanOn Broadway.

2:57:59SpeakerBroadway on Half Church.

2:58:03BubblemanOh, yeah. You know what? We'll do anything.

2:58:08ToddYou know, it was cool. George Carlin had a float tank, and he was... Really into meditation and floating. And I never got to talk to him about tripping, but I did get to talk to him about floating. And he was definitely an interesting guy. You know, the only other two people I've ever met that had it was Joe Rogan. And of course, John Lilly, the guy that gave me the podcast.

2:58:31ToddJohn Lilly, John C Lilly. But George used to float. And I used to think, wow, I wonder how much of that, you know, drove, you know, his standup.

2:58:40SalomeNice, nice. I would have to, I have to put a little plug in for my two friends here in Vancouver, Mike and Andy Zaremba. They have the float house and they did the interview with Graham Hancock on Vancouver Real. And so we're hoping that when Graham comes, because Graham had like a 30 year relationship with cannabis and then he went to Ayahuasca and Ayahuasca was like, hey, you need to stop using cannabis in this kind of way.

2:59:03SalomeYou've got to respect this medicine. So he took a break. But he's come back. He actually smoked on Joe Rogan's podcast for the first time since he had stopped. And that was a really, really big show. And now when Graham comes to Vancouver, we're hoping to get him just maybe some edibles and then getting him into a float and seeing what happens.

2:59:26ToddThat's fantastic. You've got to remember. I recommend it to absolutely everybody.

2:59:32SpeakerYou've got to remember that Ja don't love no quitters.

2:59:40SpeakerYou know, you got to try floating in something. I know that the salt float is a great thing, but here's what I discovered. If you combine a certain amount of slip, which is the clay that you use to pour into a mold with water, Thank you for watching.

3:00:22SpeakerI made a tank of this warm slip and I actually fell sound asleep in it. I got so relaxed that I went past the loss of the body thing and into a complete deep sleep. Is it denser than salt water? Thank you for joining us.

3:00:59SpeakerAnd your knees, your arms and your hands.

3:01:03ToddPart of the water, by your ears going under the water, that's part of the sound deprivation that you experience. And the water part is, you know, you heat the water to that of your skin temperature. So for me, it was like 96.5, 96.6 I liked. And you don't feel the water.

3:01:23SpeakerLikewise you do with the clay. It's heated. It's a heated tub that you get in. And as far as the ear thing, I always objected to my ears being under the water because of the weirdness of the sound that it created by being under the water. And when I floated on top with my ears out of it for the first time, it was in an isolation chamber because I took an old salt water one and emptied all the salt out of it and put the clay in it instead.

3:01:50ToddMine even had under the speakers, little speakers that went under the lining so you could actually, and I didn't like it. I had a stereo, if you remember, ATN on top of it for a while that went into it, but I didn't, I didn't really like the music going through it as much. George actually took the top off his and had a TV facing down and he used to lay there and watch space videos in it.

3:02:15ToddAnd, uh, I thought that was fucking totally fascinating. And because when I first started floating, I felt like it's what you must feel like. You're boundless in space because you feel released from your body. You don't feel where your skin ends and the water and the air begins. And you don't really hear anything. You don't see anything. So you just feel like, I don't know, you're floating in space.

3:02:40ToddAnd when, at least that's how I felt. So when I was talking to him and he said that he really did have a TV and he would watch space stuff, I thought that is tricky as could be.

3:02:49SpeakerBut he has also watched Fox News on it a lot.

3:02:52ToddNo, I don't believe he did. I'm joking. Oh yeah, no. He did my friend Bill Marshall one day and he was leaving and I was coming in the back and he had his bags and everything and I stopped and I said, can I ask you one question? And he said, what is it? And I said, did you really have a video monitor on top of your deprivation tank?

3:03:11ToddAnd he said, how could you possibly know that? And I said, well, the same guy that set yours up set mine up because I got John Lilly's. And then he put his bags down and Bill made a joke. He's like, oh, this must be important, you know, because he was in a hurry. And then suddenly he was like, oh, I got a minute for this. And he started talking about deprivation tanks.

3:03:29ToddAnd I thought it was fascinating. I never wanted to put a monitor on top of mine, mind you, because I think it would upset the whole community. Little thing that I got going on in there. But I don't know what else he was doing when he was laying there watching the space video. So it only leads one to one.

3:03:44SpeakerJust think about it. A deprivation monitor. Wait a minute.

3:03:50ToddHe was combining things. And I think that also like when he laid in there, I wouldn't doubt that he used it for information because the way he used to stand up and deliver such incredible amounts of articulated wisdom. And be able to just like nail it. And I felt like this is what I wondered and kind of why he didn't give me a secret recipe when I asked because I wondered if he laid there with video information and you know because mine already had speakers so it wouldn't take much to cut a hole in the top and put a monitor on it you know and my thought was is wow I wonder if he used this as a way to block out everything else and really absorb the information that he was then regurgitating to us in his humor.

3:04:36SpeakerI've heard of a few other people who had speakers or sound systems, but I've never heard of anybody with a monitor. Everybody takes in information in a completely different way. I couldn't listen to music under those circumstances. I don't listen to music when I'm driving in my car, and it's because my own head is so busy. I can't get into playing music and enjoying it like Mark does.

3:05:12SpeakerI can play all day long, but I can't listen to somebody else's music all day long. It turns into an irritant for me. It's something to do with repetition, and I don't like... I don't like too much repetition. I like originality. And so I love playing. I can appreciate that, but I think you'll agree most people like to listen to music when they drive or ride in a car.

3:05:40SpeakerI agree with you. Most people do, but I'm not most people. You can't trick us. You are most people.

3:05:52SpeakerIn the manner that part of me is in everything and part of everything is in me, okay, I'll go for that. We are all most people. Yeah, I like dubstep, OG Brick.

3:06:08ToddI do recommend everybody gets into meditation, though. It's a fantastic way of kind of, I think, clearing your mind and healing your body.

3:06:17SpeakerYeah. Yep, meditation is the only thing you can really ground anger in are two things, either full love or full meditation. You can ground anger out with the both of those.

3:06:31BubblemanAnd yoga is meditation for the body, so don't forget about yoga.

3:06:35SpeakerThat's some important stuff in there. Let me tell you what yoga really is, Bubba, man, so that you have a better understanding of it. Yoga was developed when the first people started noticing that sound made a difference. They decided to start chanting, and they needed a way to time the chant so it was the same thing all the time. So the first clock they had was the breath and the heart.

3:06:59SpeakerSo they started using the breath as a way of saying words with a certain rhythmic beat to cause a change in circulatory and into the breathing system that induced a mind change or a changing of the consciousness. And this is what yoga was originally developed for. The different postures were to activate different channels in the body regularly when they didn't have clocks or a metronome or a way of Providing a beat.

3:07:26SpeakerAnd so the breath was considered one of the first methods to really understand how to regulate the body because the regular breath caused a regular reaction in the body and irregular breaths made irregular reactions. And you know the different tenses of yogi, yogi, and yogurt.

3:07:53SalomeAnd I want to add something to the yogic one too, so interesting with the sound frequencies. And I read that the yogics would sit in meditation for hours and then suddenly go into a pose. And so that's kind of how it happened, where it wasn't like the poses that created meditation, but the meditation that created the poses.

3:08:15SpeakerWell, they got the pose because they realized from the breathing that they could regulate these systems in the body. And the body would help them understand what the best way to hold it was to work with this rhythm, this breath, and this way of creating a sound. The sounds were a way of regulating the breath exactly. If you said, ohm. Thank you for joining us.

3:08:55SpeakerThe way to do it is by making your body hold a certain position and breathing do it a certain way. It activates a circuit. There's a lot of circuits in the body. You can activate them a lot of different ways through touch, through breath, through sound, through sight, through understanding. People always ask, what's the third eye of the body? The third eye is the mind. It's how you can see everything beside your two eyes.

3:09:21SpeakerYou see it in your mind and understand it that way.

3:09:26SalomeYeah, less cannabis. Every time I have cannabis, especially on Sundays, I'm going out with my rose quartz with my partner soon for our forest walk after this. But whenever I go, she's like, hey, breathe deep, breathe deep. And she always reminds me. So definitely, it's definitely a great, great gift regulation.

3:09:51SpeakerIt leads to a lot of understanding, you know. It's how compassion was understood. It's how all the emotions of the human body came to be understood because they could regulate the breathing and experience that emotion at the highest level, which brought about complete understanding. Andrew, you do realize that I copyrighted Regulator, so I own it. The text in the mail.

3:10:16BubblemanYeah, the more I hear the word regulate and regulate breath and regulate and regulate, I think, wow, what these things really must doing is they must be engaging the endocannabinoid system, which is what we know is actually regulating all of our biological functions.

3:10:33SpeakerSo there's definitely a big connection. Just remember, anybody who regulates has to send me 25 cents.

3:10:41BubblemanI'm gonna put a dollar aside for you, Sam, because I got three more left in me in the next couple of minutes.

3:10:45SpeakerYou can understand the way the endocannabinoid system works more like this. By adding the right cannabinoid, you're filling up the fuse box. If you don't have enough cannabinoids in your system, you've probably got a bunch of connections that don't have a fuse in them. So when you try to turn that on, it isn't working. Like, for instance, your immune response and stuff like that. So when we get all of the fuses plugged in, because we've got enough cannabinoids flowing in our system, all of the circuits are available to us.

3:11:16SalomeNice. Yes. Going on all circuits. Definitely. Full potential as humans.

3:11:22BubblemanAll right, well, I'm going in on this MK Ultra hash rosin with some Jack Frost terpenes dipped on it. So time to blow smoke towards the Vatican, everybody. And maybe the last time today because we have been rocking it for three solid hours. So we'll see how it goes. See how it goes.

3:11:41BubblemanJamaica, not Vatican.

3:11:46BubblemanOh, I always just say that on Rob's behalf. That's us giving Rob Clark a little shout out.

3:11:53SpeakerBut let's hope he didn't get wedded over in New Zealand. They had some of the worst floods there that they've had in, I think, 50 years or something crazy. Wow. It's that same hurricane that first hit Australia and then petered out in New Zealand. I don't know if it hit him, but I know he was in New Zealand. Well, let's hope Brother Rob is okay. And if you're listening, Rob, come out and visit us one of these days.

3:12:31SpeakerWe're having a modern day monsoon in Northern California lately, I know that.

3:12:37BubblemanIt spent the entire month of March.

3:12:39Etienne FontanWell, here they declared actually the governor of California declared the drought over except for a couple of the desert counties. So for the majority of the state of California, that 1200 year drought that we were dealing with literally disappeared in one year.

3:12:58SpeakerI know the amount of green that is growing around up here. Uh, near Garberville is nuts.

3:13:06Etienne FontanThe whole place looks like the Wizard of Oz land. It's all green. It's called a super bloom is the actual terminology they're calling it.

3:13:13SpeakerLet's hope that the water keeps coming so that all of this vegetation doesn't dry out because that would be a horrible problem. Yep. Well, I guess somebody had to say it. Thanks, Sam. Well, I'm not predicting it's going to happen, folks. I'm saying let's hope it doesn't. Spoken from the guy who owns water, right? Don't you have the patent on water? I'm pretty sure I did. That was bong water fouled with skunk weed.

3:13:49SpeakerI'm sorry. Oh, that's right. It was bong water. I knew I had one.

3:13:55BubblemanThat's funny. Well, you know what? I think today was a good episode. I enjoyed talking with everyone. Definitely was nice to have Salome come in and share her perspective on things and tell us a little bit about the Cannabis Hemp Conference that's happening on May 6th and 7th here at the University of British Columbia, I guess in the nest. Is that what it's called?

3:14:16SalomeAnd this is, everyone has their pets on the show and this is my big fluffy cat.

3:14:21BubblemanNice. Fluffy cat. Right on. I'm glad that he made an appearance on Hash Church. I'm not going to lie. Look at that.

3:14:29SalomeThis is actually from Owen, Owen Smith. Okay. Owen Smith. And he came out of the forest at Lake Cowichan and Owen took him in in the winter and then he couldn't keep him because he has another cat. So we went and got Mr. Fluffy.

3:14:43BubblemanMr. Fluffy looks like a Maine Coon.

3:14:46SalomeMr. Kitty.

3:14:48BubblemanMr. Kitty. Mr. Kitty looks serious.

3:14:51SpeakerHe kind of looks like, why are you holding me up against?

3:14:56BubblemanThat's awesome though. Grumpy cat. Well, I don't have a pet to grab this second. Mine's in the other room, but I will thank everyone and everyone's pets. Thanks to everyone watching for coming out for another episode of Hash Church. We will be back next week. Who knows where I'll be? I hope I'm in Jamaica. I'm not going to lie. But if I'm not, I won't cry. So thanks everyone for being a part.

3:15:21BubblemanThanks for coming in Salome and sharing your story with us.

3:15:25SalomeThank you everybody so much. Thank you Marcus for the amazing work you all do. Thank you.

3:15:30SpeakerNice to meet you Salome.

3:15:32SalomeNice to meet you guys too. Hopefully we'll see each other in person soon.

3:15:36BubblemanAnd thank Lynn Ulbrich for coming in with Mr. Scaldone and Dr. Natasha hanging out with us from Boston Live. Very cool to see you guys. And yeah, just everyone, Todd, Skunkman Sam, Indra, Etienne, Johnny B, and D420K who are no longer here. We do appreciate you guys spending your time with us. And we will see you all next week. See you later, everybody.

3:15:58SalomeBye-bye. Ciao.