Health, Exercise, and Cannabis Trends

0:00SpeakerMaybe we should record this too because wow. Got it, got it. Welcome everybody to, oh geez, I don't even know. Is it episode 27? It is. It's Hash Church 3.0 episode 27 and all I have to do quickly is grab the link. I'm going to grab the link and send it over to the folks that are in the wrong one because for whatever reason when I create a YouTube link, And then I go live, it creates a totally different one.

0:32SpeakerAwesome. I just want to welcome a few people that have arrived already. We got the Dragonfly Earth Medicine in the house. We got Mr. Skunk Man, Sam, in the house. God, it was a while ago, but you celebrated a birthday, didn't you? Me? Yeah. No, my birthday's in July. Okay, well, what was it? I thought... I missed something. I feel like I missed something that was some months ago.

1:00SpeakerSo much has happened. People have passed away and people have celebrated birthdays and there's all sorts of things going on in the world right now. And I can't really keep up. But hopefully you guys are all doing really well over in Amsterdam and over in the Coups. Although things are blowing up here, they had riots in the Delft last night, and they had riots in Rotterdam, because a lot of people, they don't want to be vaccinated, but yet they want to be able to freely travel.

1:33SpeakerAnd they're demonstrating to the point of extremity. Damn. Yeah, it's going on all over right now. Yeah, I heard that there are a lot of people are not necessarily, you know, out there in the streets because they're against vaccines. They're out there in the streets because they're against the mandates. And there's a lot of people who are fully vaccinated who are against the mandates. And I think there's a really big difference between Being pro-choice and then being mandated.

2:08SpeakerSo I think that's what a lot of people are upset about. And then there's a lot of Dutch anarchists who just like to stir up shit. And for that, we're thankful. Well, unless they're harming things and that's not cool. And we understand for sure.

2:23BubblemanNo, no, exactly. I just changed my mic because someone told me I sounded like a phone call. So hopefully that's a little bit better there. Oh, Johnny B's coming in. You guys might not recognize Johnny B. There's only two thirds of Johnny B. That used to be here. I think he's lost like 70 pounds or some ridiculous thing. Rocking the push-ups, rocking the sit-ups, doing the walking and the healthy eating.

2:47BubblemanJohnny fucking B in Toronto at Lyft. Dude, you do your push-ups today or what? You're muted. Yes, I'm 50 done.

2:56Johnny BI'm down.

2:56BubblemanI'm finished.

2:59SpeakerI did 15 push-ups in front of the Rogers Center.

3:01Johnny BI did 15 push-ups in front of the CN Tower. Then I did another 15 pushes overlooking the CN Tower and everything else. And then another 10. So I'm past that point. I feel fantastic. Good morning, everybody.

3:14SpeakerWell, what I like about it is that means I don't have to do any exercise. You did it for me.

3:21Johnny BSee, that's the whole idea. I felt like... You got me going.

3:25BubblemanYou got me going, John. I've been doing 50 push-ups for the last 10 days or however long it's been since you challenged me.

3:32Johnny BIt's a 50-day challenge. We're pushing into 2022 with just a new push of life. And you know what? A little healthiness, a little bit of exercise, just nothing major, just 50 a day. You can do 5, 10 times a day, 10, 5 times a day. I'm up to 18, and then I have to break, and then I can do another 5 and 3. That's my max. And I have to rest.

3:52BubblemanYour timing is perfect, brother, because we were just kind of talking about something we probably won't get too deep in talking to today because it's such a triggering and divisive conversation. But I love that you came in right at the time to show people that, you know, during this hectic kind of crazy time, there are other ways to improve one's health, which is to focus on what you put in your mouth.

4:16BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

4:42SpeakerOh, sorry on that. I wanted to tell you guys that we're on day seven of our liquid cleanse of a 20 day cleanse right now. So we're on day seven of our liquid cleanse. And it's been totally amazing. Like, you know, talk about changing your frequency and upping your health and really stimulating your immune stimulus response. It's like once you start getting rid of digestion, then you reach an entire whole level We've been doing a 10-minute plankster.

5:14SpeakerFive. Five minutes and then another. That's awesome. What we do is, and I'll tell you this really quick, Alec Dixon, big love to you.

5:19Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, welcome, Alec, bro. Hi, Alec.

5:34Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut I do a quick workout program. We call it the 530 to the 1238, which is a five-minute plank where you do a minute like this, then 30 seconds on your elbows, then 30 seconds with your leg up on your elbows, then 30 seconds from other arm, Then in the plank, elbows, and then do 30 push-ups. And it's gnarly, and you do it to the song Tweet.

6:09Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd so it's a six-minute workout. And I can do it with a doobie in my mouth. I can do the whole thing smoking a doobie in my mouth. And that makes me stoked. So I'm with y'all. I'm with y'all on the weed workouts and the feeling good, because I'm 48. I'm going to be 50 soon. Well, you know what? It's good to hear that you're staying healthy.

6:29SpeakerAnd I'm well into my 50s.

6:32BubblemanAnd you guys look great. So I take advice, take advice health wise from people that look healthy. I remember this giant man one time in Amsterdam giving me health advice and I was kind of like, dude, like no offense. But like, I can't take health advice from someone that's clearly not showing me a healthy lifestyle. And you guys are definitely looking good for any age, let alone for, you know, getting into the 50s and stuff.

7:02BubblemanThat's awesome. Welcome to Dr. Mark Scaldone and the cats down under the stars. Hey, everybody.

7:12Dr Mark ScialdoneDude, one of my favorites. Go figure, right? I'm under the influence of this guy.

7:21Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDid we invite Jonah Hill onto the show today? Just kidding.

7:28Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm bummed they didn't pick me.

7:30BubblemanDude, I've seen some funny shit. I've seen someone say that Iggy Pop is going to be playing Naked Guy on the pole. Remember that?

7:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI was talking to Sunshine Kesey at the last Oregon Country Fair and they like reconnected with that guy.

7:45SpeakerYeah, he's really healthy. Oh, yeah, he's totally great. He's like a super good guy out in the woods of Oregon still. That's so good. That is so good. Oh, my God.

7:57Dr Mark ScialdoneDid he ever think when he was up on that pole on that fretful day? That he would be known infamously as the naked guy on the pole at the Vanitas show.

8:09BubblemanEvery deadhead in the world.

8:11Johnny BOh, yeah. Naked guy on the pole? Yeah, yeah, that guy.

8:15BubblemanWhat was he on?

8:16Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, my God.

8:17BubblemanDude, I don't know. I feel like he hung out with Bear right before that show.

8:22Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was hotter than hell that day. So there were a lot of naked people in the audience. And just so that he got this perch where he was really high and they caught him on camera. I don't think he knew that they were making a movie out of it. But there are hundreds of naked people there that day, I think, I'm pretty sure.

8:42Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThere were 20,000 people there that day and minimal cars in the parking lot because everyone hitchhiked out on buses to the country for that year.

8:51SpeakerBecause there was no, the gas prices were so incredibly high.

8:54Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey charged $3 to get into the show.

8:57SpeakerAnd the crazy thing is that there was no water. So when we talked to everybody who ran that show, they were trying to literally bring in water by gallon jugs. It was 110 degrees. Milk jugs. And it was like over 105 degrees. Totally insane. So yeah, naked people galore.

9:16Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWell, and they were supposed to be making money for the Springfield Creamery, which is Ken Kesey's brother, Chuck Kesey, who started the Springfield Creamery, the very first yogurt with probiotics in America. Chuck Kesey, Nancy's Yogurt. They were trying to do a... Thank you so much for joining us.

9:56Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo lots of love.

9:57Dr Mark ScialdoneThey came back in 82, right? They did another one 10 years later in 82, didn't they?

10:03Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineA classic 1982 show, of course, so good. Oh my God, I have the song playing in my head right now.

10:13SpeakerThat was out at Dent Tower as well, out at the Oregon Country Fair. Out in the parking lot, not in the fair. And then they tried to do it again in 92, and we were all set, ready to do it, and I was going to help be backstage manager, and we had a whole bunch of Oregon Country Fair running that. But then Jerry got, you know, he went into a coma, so everything was canceled.

10:36Dr Mark ScialdoneHe got sick, but there was also, he hurt his hand, I think, scuba diving. Maybe. He hurt his hand scuba diving, but he also actually was sick then, too.

10:46SpeakerYeah, he got really sick.

10:47Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHe was super sick, and then the first show that he came back was the Halloween show at Oakland. Jerry Garcia band, Oakland Coliseum, 1992. Yeah. So much. He didn't smoke one cigarette during the whole show, which has never happened, you know? And it was just, anyone should go listen to that show. Basically tore the roof off and we were roller skating in the parking lot, right? Cause you roller skate from one side to the other at the Oakland shows because the basement, this is too much information for everyone now, but the guy at the top, he used to play wine glasses with water in them.

11:24Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd it sounded like an organ because he would put his hands on the wine glasses with water at different levels and he would play total songs on the wine glasses. It was kind of spectacular. Fucking hippies, eh? I just love them all. Big up, Colin. You're awesome. We've been seeing you on our lives doing the health things and stuff. Love you.

11:49Collin PalmerBig love, guys. Yeah, welcome, Colin. Big love. Thanks for having me. I'm in sunny California right now. Nice. I'm here for an extended period of time now. Where about? A lab up and running right now. I'm smack dab down in Venice in that area right now.

12:11ColinCool.

12:12Collin PalmerThanks, man. Just here setting up this lab and getting things cranking. It's exciting but stressful times. Yeah.

12:22Johnny BI'm going to jump out of here, guys. Peace and love. Hope you have a fantastic day. And I'll see you again.

12:28BubblemanYeah, if you want to jump in on Lyft, if there's some good stuff, Johnny B, just, you know, jump in on your phone later.

12:34Johnny BI'm going to jump on down there and then I'll jump into my car for a nice little 419 kilometers away, 4 hours and 20 minutes, trying to get there for 7.10 for an awesome dinner. So that's my drive today.

12:48BubblemanWhen's your birthday, brother?

12:50Johnny BI'm having just an awesome day today.

12:52BubblemanI did my 50 push-ups today.

12:53Johnny BI've just accomplished so many things I wanted to today.

12:55Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd now I'm on a 419 kilometer drive. And you know, Mark,

13:11Johnny BMark, I love the number 419. So because that's one minute warning for 420. So I'm just off for a beautiful day. And then I get to spend five days of smoking hash. That's all we're smoking. I got everybody's hash across the country waiting for me to try and just enjoy and indulge in and I you'll be seeing it through the Instagram posts all week of all the different

13:33SpeakerAll the different greatness I get to try from all you guys.

13:35Johnny BI know they're making amazing products and it's just so rewarding being here at Lyft. And the amount of people, Mark, and the amount of people who have been shouting out Hash Church and have learned. One guy came down this morning having breakfast. He goes, I watched you and Mark and everybody on Hash Church. He had some rare disease. He makes his own bubble. He gave me some rosin to try.

13:54Johnny BEverything has changed his life. You know what? Hash Church changes people's lives.

13:58SpeakerYou guys are awesome and I love you all.

14:01Johnny BAnd we'll see you again soon. I'm going to get down to Lyft and I'll show you guys what's going on there. So I'm excited, as you can see. I'll see you soon.

14:08BubblemanHave a great day, Johnny B.

14:10Johnny BThanks, guys. You guys rock. Looking good, Johnny.

14:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHappy birthday, buddy. You're the best. Thanks for the inspiration.

14:16Johnny BHappy birthday, man. 72 pounds lighter today, guys. That's your morning walks, dedication, and committing to what you want. Never give up. Never surrender. And you'll get what you want in life.

14:26BubblemanWe'll talk to you soon. Peace, Johnny B. That guy's a fucking inspiration, I gotta say. Just a good dude all around. I knew it was his birthday like in the near future because when I first met the guy, I met him in Amsterdam and he was like, and I think I met him on his birthday like today, like in 2012 or whatever.

14:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHey, Alec, what's going on down in your neck of the woods? What's happening? Are you doing SC Labs? What's happening these days?

15:04ColinYes, sir. Hello, everybody. Yeah, this is our 11th year deep kind of in tenure with SC Labs. And so, yeah, I mean, it's never a dull moment. It's been, you know, one of the most educational. It has been by far the most educational experience of my life. But yeah, lots of fascinating trends. I'm super stoked to be part of this conversation today. I hope everybody's doing really wonderful.

15:28SpeakerAlex, so you guys. And how amazing is it to be freed up right now at this time? You're not running a million different samples and everything. So is it nice? Is it sort of a different fall for SU Labs right now, hey?

15:43ColinThis is our, this is our 10th harvest kind of season, you know, and as a laboratory, you know, each harvest year really kind of puts a lab, flexes a lab's capabilities, you know, as far as quality once things get busy. You know, and so, so, you know, 10 years incremental progress, you know, each harvest we've been able to optimize a little bit more. And yeah, I mean, we've, we, we, we have like lab staff that run seven days a week, you know, five days a week, we have an overnight shift, you know, so we've just kind of started, we just moved our entire system to like a two day rush, three day standard turnaround.

16:18ColinSo, you know, kind of just working on optimizing, standardizing.

16:21SpeakerYeah, I was actually talking about the Emerald Cup samples, just that you guys aren't over inundated with that.

16:27ColinOh, totally. Yeah, that right now, for sure. Yeah, well, so we, the Emerald Cup kind of entry window is the month of January. So that's when samples or entries will be entered for the Emerald Cup. And then we are also kind of right in the middle of doing testing for the California State Fair. So the California State Fair You know, from November 1st to March 1st is there's an entry window open for flowers across categories from sun grown, mixed light to indoor.

16:59ColinAnd yeah, essentially everything is really Aaron Wendel, CEO Alphabet and Google, Microsoft Office Word Document MSWordDoc Word.Document.8

17:21ColinYou know, with the Emerald Cup. And so essentially everything's going to be tested and sorted into the primary terpene archetypes and then judged head up against each other. So, you know, Jack, Trainwreck, Sage, Durbin, everything terpenylene will be judged against terpenylene. And then the things that really weigh the winners are going to be around total terpene content and the cannabinoid.

17:43ColinSo really like celebrating the diversity of what This plant represents on a terpene level as well as, you know, kind of helping to, you know, push and educate around these kind of other metrics, you know, to help determine and judge quality beyond, you know, this THC number that everybody's so focused on. But, you know, I think in the future, you know, kind of total terpene content and then, you know, what the cannabinoid to terpene ratio is, is really going to be one of the more important metrics that, you know, people use to understand both, you know, quality as well as how well something, you know, how well terpenes have been preserved in it.

18:15ColinAnd then also how well that entourage effect kind of influence is going to happen from that ratio of cannabinoid to terpene.

18:23SpeakerAre you guys going to be testing for the new sulfur-containing compounds that were recently discovered? Yeah, I don't think they were new personally. Just my statement. I agree.

18:35BubblemanPeople have known about them for a long time. Nick Ziegler said he's known for 25 years. He sent me that paper and was like, he was like, whoa, that's like I we studied that 25 years ago. He said the beer industry has such a deep understanding of these styles and bio weights. Even funny how much more we have to learn in cannabis because they don't like them.

18:58BubblemanWell, they study them big time.

19:00SpeakerI mean, they study them to avoid.

19:04BubblemanNo, that's not true. Not, not. I can achieve hops anyway, and not the work that Nick Ziegler did. They were the one company that instead of trying to avoid their unique differences, they decided to celebrate them. And so that's why Nick did all the work he did with thiols and thioates and esters. 1,440 thiols he discovered alone in hops, which I've invited him here today because it would be amazing to have him here on this conversation.

19:35BubblemanWe've been discussing lately about trying to get a group together that can discuss these things, kind of maybe create a shared lexicon and create the sort of sensory evaluation program that we can all kind of, you know, feed into to create something that could take us away from, you know, these, these COAs that are basically simply THC and terpenes. Yeah, here, here.

20:01ColinI'm sorry.

20:03SpeakerNo, no problem. I'm really curious. We've been studying these for a long time. We've been aware of them, of course, for a very long time. But it'll be very interesting to see how many of them are found in cannabis. How many did you just say? 200 or 400 in hops?

20:23Bubbleman1440 is what he said.

20:25SpeakerJesus Christ. If there's that many in cannabis, then think about it. And especially if they act synergistically with cannabinoids like THC, it's everything just got way more complex. Way more complex. And when you think of

20:50BubblemanThese styles are responsible for the shift in the modulation of the profile. And so most people aren't even paying attention to these compounds right now. We're sort of on the surface with cannabinoids and terpenes. So it's exciting that the rabbit hole goes deeper and that there are people like you guys on the panel who will jump right in with both feet into that rabbit hole. So I appreciate you all for that.

21:19ColinExcuse me, Alex, for interrupting.

21:28SpeakerSorry, I was just going to say we've been doing a ton of decarbing in the house and just like putting together this amazing salve. And the decarbing has been really in the upper floors of the house has been like full on like terpene haven. And it's been a really interesting experiment because we've got two cats. And the cats are fully addicted to the third floor of the house where the terpenes are the most predominant.

21:56SpeakerIt's like the collection chamber and they're only getting terpenes and they're walking around acting so totally crazy. On all of the Persian rugs, they're like differentiating all of the different colors on the rugs.

22:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey're getting fractaled out on the car.

22:15SpeakerThey're getting fractaled out super high just on the terpenes. So just wanted to tell you.

22:26ColinThat's awesome. And one thing I was just going to add kind of, um, To Sam's question, original question on the thiols. Yeah. So, you know, we've known about thiols for quite some time. Really, Nick Ziegler put it that much more on my map from the work that they've done on hops with testing thiols. We've been working on kind of a method to kind of be able to start adding certain sulfuric type compounds.

22:54ColinSo we are kind of going to be developing into that direction, but... You know, even without kind of, you know, files to help do the really fine nuance sorting towards the end of all the different subgroupings that happen. We have found that, you know, tracking the primary mono and sesquiterpenes and using them as a, as a tool to sort kind of can really capture for the most part, all the primary smells or groups.

23:21ColinBut yeah, I think once you start getting into files and some of these other trace compounds, That really kind of defines some of the nuance of how the subgroupings kind of open up. You know, there's so much more to be kind of to be learned from that. And I'm definitely really excited for it.

23:37Dr Mark ScialdoneThey're extremely potent. I mean, the human olfactory senses are very tuned to these molecules at extremely low concentrations. So you know that they put an odorant in natural gas because natural gas has no odor. Right.

23:55ColinCaptain.

23:56Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, butanethyl. And so you can imagine that these things are basically sensitive at really, I think it's like almost part per trillion levels.

24:07ColinRight.

24:08Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the human olfactory is so sensitive to those that these things could be in there in just very, very trace quantities, fleeting quantities that essentially make them not quantifiable or not measurable on a PC. But you could certainly Taste the difference when you consume it.

24:31SpeakerDoes anybody know if these compounds act, do they modulate THC or act, do they potentiate THC? Anybody know?

24:42BubblemanI have a feeling Nick knows, but he's not here yet. And I have invited him. And welcome to Wook Sauce, who is in the house with Girls in Green.

24:51SpeakerAlice will be here shortly. I knew she would if she wasn't. Yep, just handling some stuff with the deaf, bro. Gearing up for Legends of Hash. I am. I'm waiting patiently for my jars to get here so I can get everything packed up and send it on down with the homies to get the entries in and stuff. I'm pretty excited. It's going to be a good event.

25:18BubblemanDude, I'm not even going and I'm pretty excited. I got to admit the amount of energy that Addison and Kevin have put into this and the stuff that they've kind of organized around it. I mean, getting Calix. And I'm pretty excited that they've maintained the integrity. They know all sorts of companies that tried to sponsor because legends just didn't line up with those companies. And I thought that was amazing as well.

25:55BubblemanSo I kind of got to give those guys a shout out for, uh, For really doing a great job. I can't wait for the event to get here.

26:07SpeakerMe too. I can't wait to meet all the hash makers that end up going. Everyone that I've seen is going. It's pretty amazing and it's going to be a great night. I'm excited.

26:22BubblemanI'm freezing up a little bit. So when you guys notice me freeze up, just kind of keep talking as you as you do. I've got the beta Elon Musk Starlink internet going on and we get a little cut out here and there. So have patience with me, everyone.

26:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineFair enough. Fair enough. We'll jump in. And Flynn, I was just wondering that you might be still be around or not, but I was just wondering what some of the strains you might be putting in to the event or just, you know, bringing some strains. Or how about this, Alec? What are some new trends and smells and flavors that you're seeing out of the farms this year that are kind of dominating or just kind of going off this year?

27:06ColinUm, well, well, well, what's dominating is definitely that Caryophylline, Limonene, like pair, like the Caryophylline, Limonene co-balance, kind of all the desserts that, um, you know, in the Emerald Cup last year, we saw that profile was about 54% of all the entries across categories. Um, and, and that would, and you know, that the popularity of that profile hasn't really slowed down. And so I would, you know, believe it to be closer to 60, 65%.

27:36Colinof the cannabis grown in california um it's probably that profile or close to it so you know you do the much homogenate of profiles that's kind of happening as people are just like kind of chasing the thc number you know and kind of going for these carefully dominant type um carefully miming combos um you know it's an amazing profile but you know it's also You know, the most over kind of grown profile at this point.

28:03ColinSo, you know, that's kind of where I'm really excited for kind of the work we do with the Emerald Cup and then what we're doing this year with the State Fair, which is kind of presenting cannabis to a whole new audience of cannabis, you know, novice people to kind of really show the range of diversity of what this plant offers and, you know, kind of honor it in that way so that, you know, kind of, it's not just, you know, kind of the, you know, popularity bias doesn't just kind of sweep the cup and then have a, you know, that much more of an effect on homogenizing the herb in the market.

28:38SpeakerOur early research showed that limelene definitely potentiated THC and modulated the effects. But caryophyllene did not particularly potentiate THC at all or modulate the effects. uh intoxication type effects now i i know it's very useful for immune modulation and stuff like that but that's a different issue that i'm talking about sam i had a quick question on that you know i'm curious as to like um you know how you kind of controlled some of those variables did you take strains that were high in these you know terpene profiles no no or was it We got pure THC, 25 milligrams, put it in a volcano every time.

29:34SpeakerAnd then we spiked it with just a single terpy.

29:41BubblemanWhen I did that experiment at your house, I did it through a Ruhr bong.

29:46SpeakerOkay, yeah, well, I used roars a few times, you're right. But mostly what we used was those thick, like brillo pad, pad things that were available with the volcano. And we measured it out with a very precise scale. And we vaped them all identically. And pure THC gets you high, but with the right terpenes, you get way higher.

30:16Dr Mark ScialdoneHow much terpene did you add?

30:19SpeakerOh, as small as we could add. A really tiny, I mean, we were using pipettes, the smallest ones we had, and we made it so that they were really, really tiny, tiny amounts.

30:40ColinWell, you know, and something I would mention too, that's where I feel like in the future, you know, such, you know, such a value in this idea of the cannabidi-terp ratio, right? Because what we see, you know, five of the six primary terpenes of cannabis are monoterpenes, you know, which begin to boil off at room temperature. So they're therefore the biggest spoilage indicator of You know, kind of, you know, cannabis that's lost its terpene content, right?

31:02ColinAnd, you know, and so much of what we see in the state in California, you know, a farmer puts their best foot forward, you know, and has all the controls to preserve terpenes in their supply chain to the point where they pass it off. But then it goes through a distributor and in the possession of the distributor and their chain of custody, you know, pretty much loses 60, 80% of the terpene content that was there.

31:22ColinAnd... You know, in a lot of ways, it's indistinguishable to the eye, you know.

31:26SpeakerIt's a two-sided coin, though, Alex, because, for example, terpenes, the most, you're right, the monoterpenes can be incredibly volatile and significant amounts can be lost between a living plant at harvest and two weeks later or even a month later after curing, et cetera. But The truth of it is, I found that when cannabis is fresh, it's been dried for two weeks, it could theoretically be smoked, but it's really super fresh that I found some really high terpene content stuff actually gives me laryngitis.

32:13ColinWell, you know, and I think, yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.

32:17SpeakerNo, no, I'm just saying. So I think some of the more volatile ones you have to be careful about extreme amounts of. And I got laryngitis every year for like five or six years in a row when I was living in California growing herb. And then I moved over here and started making dry sift. And I never got laryngitis again.

32:46ColinWell, the one thing, the one thing I was going to mention, and Sam, you're very right, I think, and I think that's where, you know, kind of translation from smell to flavor and, and, and, and the character of a profile, how it kind of translates to smoke. I mean, you know, certain, certain examples of an awesoming dominant strain kind of burn your, send your throat, you know, and so I think, You know, there's a lot there to what you're saying, but, but my main point around this cannabis herb ratio, right?

33:14ColinBecause so, you know, so much of what we see is, um, you know, the, the average of terpene content in flour across everything we've ever tested over 200,000 samples is, is like 1.4% average. Whereas the potential of what we see whenever it's done most optimally is three to five and a half percent in dried flour. So, you know, so from what we see, the market average of terpene content in flour is, is a hundred percent to 200%.

33:37ColinThe majority is that.

33:39SpeakerDo you think the majority of that low 1.5 percentage is driven by genetics or by growing or processing or all three?

33:48ColinI think all three. Yeah, I think all three for sure. But the big point that I was just going to make is if you had, just speaking in terms of this idea of the entourage effect and the nuanced uniqueness that strains have to offer whenever they are preserved, because if you had a Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

34:34ColinThe 90 to 1 cannabidi-terp ratio is there. You know, there's not really an entourage effect that's going to be present, whether if the terpene was originally terpene to make it more stimulating or creative or If it was higher in myrcene, you know, it doesn't really matter anymore because it's 90 to one. So it's kind of absent terpene or entourage. And so really it's just a very THC base effect, you know, so it's like the most value for that would be to distill it, you know, add terpenes or something at the end.

34:59ColinBut, but from what we see, right, like, you know, kind of, you could have a strain say, you know, that has 15% THC, but it was dried and cured immaculately, like with terpene preservation and ultimate like kind of, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

35:40SpeakerThey're not damaged samples, but they're done properly, and they're really primarily just one terpene?

35:51ColinI mean, on the end spectrums of the rainbow, with terpenylene or with myrcene, you see so many examples where it's just really primary amounts of that one terpene, with very subsequent You know, secondary or tertiary kind of terpene presence, but, you know, you'll see the vast majority of the representation of that, of that profile would be one, a singular terpene, terpene, but, but, you know, so, so again, though, in this example, you know, I think kind of, you know, the, the, yeah, just the ratio is, I think can be one of the most important things.

36:26ColinI'm sorry, I kind of like slightly like missed, missed the point I was going to just hit on, but.

36:29SpeakerThat's perfectly all right.

36:31Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, no, I can explain why the ratio is important is because what you're changing when you take freshly picked cannabis to dried cannabis is the amount of water that's in there. And so the percentage of the relative percentage of terpenes to overall mass of plant changes drastically when you go from freshly frozen or freshly harvested cannabis To dried cannabis. And so because that ratio or yet because that ratio changes the percent terpenes, which is the percent of the volatile terpenes versus everything else that's in there.

37:10Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, remember, you're wholesaling a whole lot of water out in there. So everything else that's in there, that denominator changes. That's why you have to pay attention to the ratio that Alec is talking about.

37:21ColinAnd that's thank you for bringing that up, actually, because that totally triggered my mind. Right. And so. You know, because and Sam, that's where I kind of was going to bring up because I mean, you know, I think the translation or carryover of like what total terpene content might have been present live to like dry, you know, kind of is totally dependent on, you know, all these conditions, right?

37:40ColinLike, you know, time of or, you know,

37:47ColinThis pictures are being harvested under the inside. If it's in the middle of the day versus the middle of the night, you know, there's like 20% terpene content off the top just because of the heat of the sun and the temperatures you're harvesting under, you know, so many people that harvest commercial cannabis, then like, are they harvest in the middle of the day? And then they load box trucks up.

38:02ColinWith masses of herb that then kind of sit for like 45 minutes to hours until they kind of get transported to a place where they can be put under temperature control conditions. You know, but in so many ways, so much of what we see because of the volatilization of these, you know, really precious monoterpenes, you know, it's like cannabis really, in my, in my opinion, it deserves a cold supply chain, a continuous cold supply chain anywhere where it's going to be in the chain of custody of somebody that's caring for this perishable good, you know, and, and, and in this, Record year of harvest in California and overproduction.

38:36ColinYou know, I think it's going to be it's very reminiscent of what happened in Oregon a couple of years back. And what really in a big way happened is, you know, once everything goes to a standstill, you know, kind of it's really it really becomes not much more apparent who has infrastructure and who doesn't have infrastructure to even have, you know, what is the carrying capacity of your situation to preserve terpene content, what you're holding in your possession?

38:58ColinBecause if you don't have that ability, You know, then you're kind of going to get like dusted, you know, because, because in the time of the great flood, you know, kind of the averages of the or the extremes in quality really start dividing. Because if the average is about one and a half percent of the state, you know, everything sitting around, it kind of really goes down to about 1% or less, you know, so then if you're at three to five and a half percent, you know, you're kind of dunking on fools, you know, in a big way of just I mean, I think it's always that thing.

39:24ColinIf it's really bomb, and it's Really turf preserved in this bombing room, you know, it's always going to have the ability to fly. But if it's anything less than that, you know, it's this commoditized cannabinoid race to the bottom game. You know, so I think it's like those are the separate kind of sides of the market. It's like the commoditized cannabinoid market and those that are on the ultra ultra side of, you know, the terpene preservation game and, you know, just being able to immaculately care for what's in their possession.

39:52BubblemanDid you call the supply chain needing to be cold from start to finish? When I saw the cryo can come out, I thought, well, that's it. If the cryo can isn't it, something exactly like it needs to be. It needs to be able to be rolled into the fields. It needs to be able to very quickly and very cold Thank you so much for joining us.

40:44Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I think that's really it.

40:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineUnderground containers in California, I mean, are the only way you can like, We're going to do it without using crazy grid issues because anything above ground in California is just subjected to so much heat and so much movement and everything that it's... And then to try and put a refrigerator or free units on there, it just becomes like a wild amount of electricity.

41:13SpeakerAnd it just so happens.

41:13Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd I don't know that that's what we're going for is like ultimate electricity. So there's like this weird balance of like... You know, trying to find passive systems to flow into these modern needs, you know, because we do want the high grade. Yeah, ancient meets future, though.

41:31ColinAnd that's what's funny is the old school cats always knew all along you bury your reed. You know, it's like, I mean, that's all it's funny how much it's funny how much the old kind of knowledge really is proving that much more true today. You know, just around farmers like all wives tales are in harvest times around the full moon or just like, you know, times where they're not harvesting in the middle of the day.

41:51ColinI mean, I mean, just there was just there's always just there's just so much deep wisdom kind of in a lot of these older practices that I think now are getting that much more validated.

42:00SpeakerYeah, and I just wanted to make the bridge again to the old practices is that all of the temperatures and the humidities that everybody is talking about to preserve these trichomes and also these plants and herbalism is exactly what the earth's, you know, below the earth's surface and geothermal is what it holds constant and continuous. So Mother Nature has a plan. There's a deep understanding. She has a knowing of how to preserve these plants.

42:29SpeakerAnd I think that All we have to do is very easily tap into it rather than try to overthink it. So it is so true. And we know that it's always the basements of our homes that have always dried the best flour and made the best concentrates.

42:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd consistent temperatures to where the door is not opening and it's, oh, it's hot, it's cold. It has to be consistent. And then you sometimes will find some herb gets more Thank you so much for joining us today. We're so happy to have you here. We're so happy to have you here.

43:27Collin PalmerHey, guys, with the cryo freezing, you know, I've seen a lot of hemp flower dried with cryo, and it kind of reminds me of Cheetos when it's dried. Now, I understand the resin, and I think we can think about that in a... Thank you for joining us today.

44:03Collin PalmerEric Green, Chair of the Board of Trustees Meeting, Chair of the Board of Trustees Meeting, Chair of the Board of Trustees Meeting, Chair of the Board of Trustees Meeting, Chair of the Board of Trustees Meeting,

44:23SpeakerDo a terpene profile, say the top 50 terpenes of a fresh skunk number one, for example, and then you dry it for two weeks, test it again, then box it, cure it for a month or so, test it again, and then finally terpene test the resin after it's been extracted from that same clone. But you see a decrease in the profile of monoterpenes. And, you know, the more it's been handled, processed and hung around, the more volatile ones are gone.

45:07ColinYep. Yeah, we see that exact same thing, you know, and that's where I really that simple. Yeah. And I think that's where it's so much of the like, You know, long-term preservation that people have been for building out their business model, you know, instead of people kind of, you know, racing to grow as much as the neighbor, you know, being able to just preserve as the highest potential quality, you know, because You know, even on the extraction yields, you know, it's like if you, you know, harvest and kind of are able to control temperatures, you know, from the entirety from, you know, kind of what time temperatures were being, plants were being harvested under how quickly those plants were able to get below temperature control conditions, how quickly or how long, you know, kind of those temperatures able to be maintained.

45:49ColinYou know, because that was one of the big failed kind of experiments around nitrogen packaging. You know, people with nitrogen pack, everybody seemed to bail on that all at the same time, you know, but it was a kind of a failed experiment because everybody nitrogen packaged their herb, but then just let it sit in warehouses, you know, to like fluctuating day to day temperature, humidity, all these things, you know, and a year later, sure, you open it up and, you know, it's a bomb, but then it catches up in five minutes, you know, but there was no, there was no continuity in the Brad Johnson, CEO Alphabet and Google, Microsoft Office Word Document MSWordDoc Word.Document.8

46:39Collin PalmerWe all want to grow all these things. We all want to blow out all this acreage. But we have to understand, I think, that it's a perishable. And we have to understand how that perishable can go through a cold chain event all the way to a consumer. And that's something, as this moves forward, I'm starting to think about a whole lot in terms of just resin. But at the same time, on the flip side of it, the flower is super problematic because, you know, it's just old.

47:09Collin PalmerYou don't want old. You don't want old herb. You want fresher. So what is that time frame, I guess, is what I'm asking. And, you know, because I've never really looked into it. I've just kind of, you know, my bioassay tells me like, oh, this is this is fresh. This is right. Like, there's no beyond that.

47:26SpeakerI have looked into it a bit. I've never had pot that I froze. I've been a farmer for more than a year or two, so I can't really speak on herb. But resin heads, both cleaned and unclean, so farmer's grade hash, it's about 30% THC. It's just resin heads, but with other trash in with it. And then there's a cleaned up resin that's in the low 80s, and it's just resin heads, nothing else.

48:00SpeakerFor a decade, frozen, minus 30. And you can either flush it with nitrogen or not. And it doesn't really change. Not at all.

48:12Collin PalmerThat makes sense to me, Sam. But now we bring in plant, you know, we bring in a living, breathing organizm, right, that's drying. And that it's decaying at a faster rate than the resin to your point. So what is the, you know, I guess I'm just asking.

48:31SpeakerThat's why the secret is to get it to the point of resin. I mean, that is the active, whether it's recreational or medical or whatever, that is what you're after. So if you have any way.

48:51Collin PalmerWe lost you, Sam. At least I did.

48:54BubblemanThat's why that's why get it as cold as possible. Like you said, Colin, we don't want old weed. We want fresh weed. It's like exactly get it as fresh as possible. Do these processes so you preserve everything and then only then make the decision through your bioassay where you know you have everything, where you enjoy it at different rates. And because here's the thing, like someone said earlier, oh, sometimes there's it's too much.

49:18BubblemanYeah, too much of a specific ratio. But different ratio may not be too much. So we can't get into these generalizations of like, well, I had 9% terpenes one time and it was way too much. Well, yeah, it might've been super high in D-limonene or another caustic terpene that, you know, osamine burn the throat or whatever.

49:36SpeakerWhat do you got there, Mohave? I just dug out some old dropper bottles of some terpenes that I put in about two years ago. And I just kind of forgot about them. Botanical terpenes, non-cannabis derived. And when I pulled them out, it was pretty far out. They were all the same amount inside each container for the most part. And a lot of it volatilized. There's definitely some gummy kind of resin left over.

50:05SpeakerBut some of the tops, We're completely corroded versus other. This is Ossamine and this is Lidolol. And all the way across, some of them were just like, here's terpenylene, which is a little bit more corroded. Here's alpha-pinene, which is less corroded. Anyway, I just think it's a really interesting conversation about packaging, longevity. As our good buddy Rob Clark always said, not all terpenes are good terpenes. I think there is something with fresh weed that is a little bit...

50:42SpeakerThere's this anthropological concept of cultural relativism, which says if a culture decides to do something, whether it's batshit crazy or not, they did it for a reason. And people traditionally really went through a lot of effort to age cannabis and to kind of deter the flower before they consumed it. And I think that that was, you know, definitely it was a different world, a different market, a different, different types of products that are being consumed.

51:08SpeakerBut I think it's really interesting. I think that there are I've seen certain profiles that improve more with age and certain products that are more stable. I froze flour for, geez, probably 10 years and pulled it out of the freezer and it's still pretty damn fresh. I've seen stuff that was on the market that was a few months old that had been abused and abused. And the turf profile definitely changes even in the freezer, you know, and it's hard to keep it, you know, completely frozen and sealed for that long.

51:36SpeakerBut I think it's an interesting conversation. Like right now in California, we've got this big glut and all this flour from last year that no one could sell and it expired. And, you know, they had to, you have to turn it into distillate and get a new COA on it to extend its life. And I think that there's no reason why we can't store flour for a long time.

51:55SpeakerAnd I think that there's, you know, quite possibly a good reason All right. Thank you so much.

52:09SpeakerIn a profound way, but for some varieties, I just noticed, you know, like these, you know, like high terpenylene varieties seem to be more stable, for instance. And then maybe that's just because the effect of terpenylene on aged flowers seems to not diminish as much as these other higher caryophyllene, higher myrcene varieties and stuff that seem to, Like, you get no effect after a while, or the effect is completely diminished.

52:39SpeakerAnyway, I just think it's an interesting conversation. I posted this thing on Instagram, and I rarely do memes, and it got a number of people freaked out, like, you know, what's it doing to our packages? Oh, yeah.

52:51BubblemanDude, what's it doing to your throat? Like, when you held that up, I was like, whoa, that's what my throat looks like when I take a dab of Osamine.

52:59Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, haven't you always noticed that, like, when you dab, you get... Sorry? Residue? It's creating a corrosion. These are also pure terpenes, right? I don't know what it is, but most terpenes are good solvents. A lot of those rubbers are plasticized with things called plasticizers. And a lot of times what happens is the terpene gets into the rubber, leaches out the plasticizers. Those plasticizers are nasty compounds.

53:30Dr Mark ScialdoneThey're like, John C. Dioctyl phthalate and phthalates and shit like that. But what you might be seeing there is just the precipitation John C. Of the phthalate plasticizer from the rubber. So what, what, what I mean to say is that it's nothing inherent in the terpene. It's just the terpene interacting with this rubber. That's not suited for...

53:51BubblemanBut why would some terpenes react that way, the way osamine is reacting and others wouldn't? It's just interesting because osamine is literally one of the harshest terps on the throat and it looks like it has the most breakdown, whatever it's breaking down.

54:05Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's a good solvent for the plasticizer and it's able to dry it out or something. I don't know, Mark.

54:11BubblemanIt's weird. Interesting. Hey, welcome to Debbie. Debbie's in the house.

54:16SpeakerGood morning, everyone. Whoa, really interesting stuff to wander into talking about this terpene-plastic interaction. Did not know that.

54:23BubblemanA little sensory evaluation at 9.55 a.m. Pacific Standard Time.

54:32Dr Mark ScialdoneMojave, can you scrape off, like, is it like a powder or a white residue or something? Or is it, like, you say there's corrosion, like, What is the material? What does it look like?

54:43SpeakerNo, it is kind of feels like it's just gummy, almost like it precipitated, like almost it feels like it passed through the rubber.

54:59SpeakerAnd I can hardly open the containers. Oh, this one opened.

55:02Dr Mark ScialdoneIt would be interesting to see over a prolonged period of time, if the rubber becomes brittle, then that tells you it's leaching out the plasticizer. We're going to have a rubber without a plasticizer and they will turn brittle. It'll turn brittle in a little break.

55:16SpeakerI'm saying if you've ever seen the ball jars on certain varieties, the ball jars, the rubber seal on ball jars starts to crack. And I seem to remember this from a tip from, I don't know, Sam, I don't know if I got this from you, but this was something way back in Amsterdam, I think I learned, but was to throw the rubber band in a jar of flour.

55:41SpeakerAnd then pull a month later, pull it out. The right variety, like the high haze variety. Yes, I've seen them melt those rubber bands easily. Yeah.

55:52ColinWell, and that's the one thing I was going to say real quick on the testing side, because we, you know, around 2018, we invested in like a smoking robot as well, so that that could kind of, you know, basically pull the aerosol vape from a vape cartridge that's already been aerosolized and then is capturing that Aaron Ward, Aerosol, and then we're running further testing on it. So we're working with groups to help in like this long term shelf life type studies, if they're either using kind of natural kind of derived cannabis terpenes kind of blended at whatever portions or ratios.

56:25ColinUm, or, or, and, or kind of groups that are kind of just adding these different botanical or otherwise terp, uh, other types of terpenes. But we, we definitely, you know, I mean, we, we have seen some really interesting things on the corrosion side of things with like, with, with, with regard to releasing and increasing high levels of heavy metals kind of over time, you know, kind of from cartridges, various cartridges.

56:46ColinI mean, there's, there's all these unknown variables about what is actually You know, in the hardware that's leading to that, but it's also this combination of, okay, what high, you know, what concentration of terpene are in these, you know, if you have kind of 10% limonene in there, you know, kind of over time, you know, is it going to be leading to more corrosion than others? You know, especially with certain types of hardware, but these are definitely all really fascinating questions that I think people need to, you know, just take into consideration, especially if they're formulating products and putting them out.

57:17Dr Mark ScialdoneYou might be familiar with Amber Weiss's study that was recently published. So Amber Weiss, I think, is a professor up in Washington. And she studied and published the results of a study of something that you're exactly addressing, which is the leaching of heavy metals in through vape hardware into the vape cartridge fluid. And what impact that could have on human safety is this actually putting lead and cadmium and tin and all these other nasty metals, because you got to think of any shiny metal product, most likely coming from the same factory in China, any shiny metal could be contaminated with these other metals, which you probably don't want to have in vape cartridges where you're inhaling the stuff into your lungs.

58:10Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so Amber Weiss just recently published a paper. Maybe what I could do is post the link to it in the...

58:16ColinPlease.

58:18Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's enlightening, but it also brings back, again, the need to really have not only oversight, but the analytical methods like ICP and whatnot. So you can look at maybe what storing cartridge fluid in these tanks for prolonged periods of time Mark Benthien, M.D. : Does in terms of introducing metal content to the fluid themselves because they pens aren't going away anytime soon. So the real question is, is what's the best Mark Benthien, M.D.

58:51Dr Mark Scialdone: Way to manufacture that to make sure that not only the thing works, but it works in a way that doesn't leach heavy metals into what you're inhaling because God knows what the long term impact of that can be

59:07Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI think not getting so tricky with everything, you know, with the old, old school apothecaries, you know, have, have been dealing with essential oils for, you know, hundreds, thousands of years. And they, and they also volatilize, you know, and, and people have used glass and glass syringes and glass jars with glass lids and, and copper and silver. And these metals are proven to be good for us and gold in some cases, you know, um, So we continue to get these new products from modernization.

59:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then, wow, we found out they're all tainted. And then now all of a sudden they're, well, what a shocker. You know, all these new items coming that are cheap and stuff are now toxic. So I think that we look towards, again, you know, let's not, the way we get educated nowadays is,

1:00:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you so much for joining us today. We're so excited to be here. We're so excited to be here. We're so excited to be here. We're so excited to be here.

1:00:32SpeakerAnd they were kept inside glass. And then the ones that were less volatile were kept inside of the wooden drawers. So.

1:00:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd certain herbs were kept in the basement. Pretty interesting. That they had to go down into the basement to get it, you know, depending on what it was. So, you know, I think it's important for us to just remember that. And also that, you know, regenerative and organically grown cannabis and earth grown cannabis tends to keep It's terpenes longer, you know, than things that are aeroponically or hydroponically grown in some cases.

1:01:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineMaybe, Alec, you could maybe dispute that and I would be open, you know, but you find that a lot of times that, you know, the soil grown cannabis tends to keep its It's flavor has more integrity in it longer and then the medicine out of it, you know.

1:01:20SpeakerAnd that's only because of more microbiology may be present. And I think that that's going to be the real bridge that, you know, us as regenerative farmers and as regenerative medicine makers are really interested to see the science of you know terpene and all different uh secondary metabolites that are profound inside of the plant and then what is profound inside of the soil and what's profound inside of the plant's endophytic system and you know its own microbiome so that's going to be like the next our bio and our brain blood brain barrier yeah and the way that it

1:01:58ColinWell, that's one thing I've been really, really fascinated with is kind of on the agronomic side of things and, you know, feeding your plants, what, you know, cause with all things equal, you know, like you grow the same strain, same plant, different conditions, hydroponically versus regenerative organic, you know, like with Elaine Ingham's, you know, soil food web research and all the stuff she's shown, you know, whenever you do that side-by-side study, you can track whenever the microbiome of the soil is balanced to what the plant wants.

1:02:27ColinYou know, you can track the doubling of the secondary metabolite that that plant produces. And you see that with lycopene and tomatoes, you see that with various vitamins and berries and, you know, cannabis terpenes are the secondary metabolites. So, you know, that would go to, you know, suggest that, you know, there's the potential for, you know, regenerating organic grown You know, kind of optimally organic grown cannabis and potentially being able to produce doubling of the secondary metabolites.

1:02:51ColinYou know, that's like, you know, there needs, you know, some, you know, a lot of side by side to kind of be able to demonstrate that, but that's really fascinating to me because, you know, from, you know, there's everything you can do as a farmer to grow the plant most optimally. And then from that point on, then it's okay. Then it's all about, you know, post-harvest handling, temperatures, all these things that you do to kind of lock in and preserve, like, you know, what you were able to kind of produce, you know, and everything's working against you.

1:03:18ColinAaron Wiggins, CFO Alphabet and Google, Microsoft Office Word Microsoft Office Word Document MSWordDoc Word.Document.8

1:03:41ColinThank you for joining us today.

1:03:53ColinYou know, kind of decision of hardest time temperature. So here's a question.

1:03:57BubblemanHere's a question. Some of the terpiest and most ridiculous hash I've ever made in my life has been in Jamaica, where it's like literally like 100 degrees in the field. I can't even go in the field for more than like 20 or 30 minutes at a time or my past pasty white ass. Just turns lobster red. And then I can't enjoy myself anymore. So I'm like going in and out of the fields every 15 to 20 minutes.

1:04:23BubblemanAnd I'm just looking at these plants and they're so stinky and the field is so stinky. And I'm just thinking like, holy shit, like these things are off gassing an insane amount of terpenes right now. Is it because of that process that it's producing more? Because at the end of it, when we harvested that shit and then ran it through the bags, and trust me, we were not keeping it cold all the way till they got into the bags.

1:04:50BubblemanThey were in warm plastic bags or whatever. It was so turpy. And I mean, dude, Sam, even you can acknowledge, because this was at a time where... This was the first time Sam ever smoked anything I had. Prior to that, because we were in Jamaica together, prior to that, he only smoked his own shit. It was that good. And I'm not saying that he shouldn't have, because truly, that shit was from another planet.

1:05:19BubblemanThis stuff in Jamaica was like... I want to say it was almost on point. Wouldn't you agree, Sam? Do you remember the stuff?

1:05:26SpeakerWell, there was two points. Number one, I didn't have enough to keep smoking just mine. But number two, the stuff we made was outrageously good.

1:05:40BubblemanAgreed. It was really good. I still have pictures of it.

1:05:44SpeakerNo, it was really, it was also a darker, redder color than the stuff grown in my greenhouse, for example.

1:05:57Collin PalmerSo I, you know, Marcus, I have some thoughts on that. I mean, you know, Alec was bringing up like biotransformation through enzymatic uptake and all these things that can happen. Through target feedings and kind of, there's the term, you know, Just driving crop steering, right? But you can do crop steering in many different ways, and that's just an ideology. And then there's the stress responses, right? You have stress response that plants giving off and combating the environment that it's in.

1:06:30Collin PalmerIn most cases, that is gonna directly result in the resin. And that could go good or bad. That could go both sides, right? You could have a stress response that stresses the plant out so bad that it just like goes the wrong direction. All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started. So I'm going to go ahead and get started. So I'm going to go ahead and get started.

1:07:11Collin PalmerBut I think that's, you know, from my experience, targeting and then also going the other way and stressing them out, you get some equally amazing results.

1:07:21ColinYeah, I agree with that. And, you know, one thing I'd say, too, is, you know, kind of, Marcus, to the point you were just bringing up, you know, I mean, certain strains of genetics have the potential to put out certain amounts, you know, just inherently like before the, you know, optimal feeding and, you know, kind of cultivation side of things happen. You know, I mean, you could have So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

1:08:06ColinWell, Colin was just bringing up, you know, I think there's all these, you know, like, I don't know if it's hormesis, environmental hormesis or something, but it's just like the plant's ability to kind of adapt to the kind of given, you know, kind of stress responses that that environment that it's growing in provides, you know, and so, you know, I think there's all these different fascinating things to track, but, and then, you know, but, you know, but, you know, all things given, you know, each unique cultivar has its potential of what it can put out and, you know, who knows, maybe the potential or the...

1:08:39ColinThis might be different environments across the world where it might be more optimally, you know, able to be expressed in certain areas, but all things considered, you know, strain has the potential, you know, to put out a certain amount. And then like, I think there's the future study to understand, okay, well, if it's, you know, one-to-one, you know, fungal bacterial ratio and microbes in the soil and kind of optimally kind of regeneratively grown versus hydroponic, you know, can, can there be this increase or doubling of secondary metabolites?

1:09:03ColinYou know, because then from there, it's okay, the plant is able to produce its potential. You know, maybe through cultivation methods, it can be drastically doubled or increased versus not. But then from that point, it's like, Post-harvest handling is where kind of, you know, we see 60 to 80% of the like devaluation or, you know, kind of step, you know, and that's just what's really fascinating to see, you know, when we've been on kind of a bit of a, not public service announcement, like sometimes I feel like chicken little, but not screaming about the sky's falling, but about the turps are volatilizing, you know, and, you know, trying to kind of help just empower those we work with on this understanding of how, like how much they need to vet their supply chain partners, because they could be putting the, Most premium bomb herb forward, you know, that they preserved 5% terpene content in it.

1:09:51ColinBut then the time it gets to the distributor sits around a month before it goes to be packaged, you know, processed, put into jars, and then driven in non-frigerated kind of transportation to a dispensary. Well, now it's at a dispensary getting rejected because it might have like 70% less terpene content. And now the distributor is going back to the farmer to try to renegotiate price.

1:10:12BubblemanYou know, it's kind of, if it's not going, if it's, if it's not getting sent back, it's going into a non-cool vault.

1:10:19ColinYeah, exactly. Into a non-cool vault. Totally. And I think in the future, I think the farmers and the end consumers are going to be most outraged by how lacking, you know, cause people are paying me, paying premium prices for like, you know, top shelf quality herb. But if you actually look at it, you know, on the, you know, kind of phytochemical standpoint, it's like, You know, 60, 70% less actually bomb than when it was able to be preserved or established.

1:10:48BubblemanAnd what does that do to not bomb herb, the stuff that the majority of people are actually growing? How about that? Now put that into that non-cooled supply chain and you end up with way below mediocre.

1:11:03ColinThat's not a good place to compete in right now.

1:11:05SpeakerYou know, really quickly, I just wanted to bring up just the definition of secondary metabolites. It has the word metabolism in it. So when we're talking about secondary metabolites, we're actually talking about the metabolism of the plant. And when we compare the metabolism of a human being in warm weather or warm climates, or we actually look at the metabolism of soil, When we have year round warmth, we have very high metabolism rates.

1:11:38SpeakerThe soil is constantly metabolizing. We've got tremendous amounts of microbiology that's tremendously metabolizing. So the actual endophytic system of the plant is going to be at a much higher rate, a much higher metabolism. And those people understand who are coming from the north where it isn't sunny all of the time. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:12:22SpeakerSo, of course, we're going to have higher secondary metabolites because when we go to warmer weather where it's warm year round and sunny year round, we're going to have continuous metabolizing. So I just wanted to add that.

1:12:36ColinDamn, nailed it. That's awesome. Thank you.

1:12:40SpeakerAlex, what was the highest content that you guys found?

1:12:45ColinWe see in a very small percentage of the data for dried flower, three to five and a half percent is really kind of the range in that really unique subset of data. You know, again, about one and a half percent is the average of everything we've tested and You know, three to five and a half percent is this in this other league we see in the data, this like really high percentile of dried flower.

1:13:09SpeakerI'm pretty sure that the folks at Napro showed me something that was eight or 10.

1:13:16ColinJesus.

1:13:17BubblemanI've definitely had that conversation with Mark as well. No, I didn't see it, but he was like, yeah, eight to 10. I was just like eight to 10. I wouldn't want to concentrate that. Is that wet or dried plant material?

1:13:31SpeakerDried plant material.

1:13:33Dr Mark ScialdoneWow.

1:13:33Etienne FontanAll right.

1:13:36SpeakerAlec, good morning for you. And I'm happy to see you. Hey. Good to see you here. What about the difference in the terpene profiles of trikes and rosin? Do you see much difference?

1:13:55ColinWell, I mean, I don't think I'd be able to really speak to, I mean, because we see kind of concentrates across, you know, I haven't been able to see kind of the divide in kind of types, you know, because like a lot of people, you know, submit us just a name, you know, of the strain, not kind of differentiating what type of kind of extraction it is.

1:14:16ColinBut, you know, I see it.

1:14:18BubblemanWe see that at Embark because we get when we buy, if we buy, if we make flower rosin for...

1:14:28ColinOh, I think Marcus just kind of went out a little bit, but yeah, to that point, I mean, I think, you know, there is, in the rosin process, there is an amount of heat for an amount of time. There is going to be an amount of volatilization that happens, you know, but so each step through kind of, you know, the process of whether you're doing solventless or kind of solvent, you know, there's all these things internally, best practices that can be done to kind of just try to optimize or minimize, optimize kind of preservation or minimize kind of loss.

1:14:59ColinBut yeah, I wouldn't know much more about that. Marcus, you had froze up. You're back.

1:15:04BubblemanYeah, I'm not sure if I'm going to end up freezing up again. But at Embark, we have to get COAs for the flour. Then we make the bubble. We have to get a COA for the bubble. If we want to make the rosin, then we'll get a COA for the rosin. So we have seen... We've seen all sorts of different things from cultivars that change very little to cultivars that change a lot and that terpenes that weren't there in the beginning are there in the end, especially from like non-rosin to rosin.

1:15:31BubblemanHeating them up, I guess, changes them in ways. But yeah, nothing that's been shocking.

1:15:40ColinOne thing I would say to that real quick, what you were just mentioning, Marcus, and, you know, I might have mentioned this before kind of on Hash Church, but Um, you know, from what we see, you know, kind of in the, in the, you know, ranking of most present to least present in, you know, the over 40 terpenes we're, we're actively testing for every time we do a test, um, you know, really it's these five to six primary monoterpenes, you know, then there's a few sesquiterpenes like beta-carotene and humaline, um, you know, um, you know, some, some of these other, um, type compounds, um, but, but, you know, essentially, What we see is you know in in the total potential of the plant whenever it's ripe or kind of not nothing's volatilized you know kind of it'll show in the rank order these monoterpenes sesquiterpenes you know on but but whenever all the primary monoterpenes boil off as well as the sesquiterpenes boil off you know we see that you know they're basically there's a concentration of these really small present terpenes that were there that All of a sudden, the primary things on the profile, you know, and they're the higher boiling point terpenes that end in an OL, like Neuralytol, Bisbolol, Guayol, Phytol, you know, and so these terpenes become the profile whenever there's an absence of the primary compounds that are now gone.

1:17:03Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, those are all terpenoids, right? They're not terpenes anymore.

1:17:08ColinSure, sure. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, they're like higher. Alcohol kind of based type compounds, right? Or, you know, and so, but, but we, we, we deem this, this artifact kind of terpene profile as the, we call it the swag flag. And the swag flag is essentially any time that there's, you know, like about 0.75% total terpene content or less. And all the mono incest with terpenes are gone.

1:17:33ColinAnd the only terpenes that remain in the profile are like Bisbolol, Nerolidol, Goyal, Phytol. That's pretty much the artifact of swag and the hay smell from what we can gather.

1:17:46BubblemanThe swag. That's wild, dude. That's wild.

1:17:51Etienne FontanIs that what you're testing due to the anaerobic decomposition that's happening, whatever the cannabis is put in?

1:17:58ColinRight, yeah. It's the artifact of, it's an artifact terpene profile that remains whenever, you know, the lacking kind of prep or the lacking quality and kind of how it was dried and cured and stored kind of, you know, is, you know, it's, yeah. It's what, you know, whenever it goes flat, everything else is boiled off and volatilized, kind of those kind of very repeatedly stay behind. And how we kind of came across that is we had this outlier flag, you know, that, you know, anytime there was a unique terpene profile that didn't kind of really clearly organize into one of these primary archetype profiles that we see with really high accuracy and predictability, it would get flagged for .

1:18:44ColinWho is going through all that data and it's really fascinating going through all the data because I was like oh these are all the really unique land race like super rare profiles are going to be and albeit though there was you know very unique rare amounts of profiles in there there was a very small amount of the data and a vast majority of the data in that outlying data set was this artifact of swag and you just see it so repeatedly across thousands of samples you know you're like oh yeah that's for sure what that is you know.

1:19:07Etienne FontanSo you literally have a profile for a cannabis corpse. Yeah, totally.

1:19:14ColinThat one not to do.

1:19:16Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I don't know if it's related, but anecdotally, I have a story where a friend of mine resurrected some seeds that his parents took away from him like 30 years ago. And he found them after his dad had passed away because they were going through his stuff. And he found this old bag of weed that his dad had took from him. Like 30 years ago. So he popped some of these beans.

1:19:39Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd yeah, it was actually a Panama Red variety. And this older cat that we hang out with who doesn't really like fresh weed. He's kind of like an old school guy. He tasted that and he's like, man, this is the way weed used to taste like. And it had that old swaggy kind of taste that we used to have with, you know, Mexican Weed back in the day, you know, back in the 70s and 80s before Grateful Dead Tour brought Kind Bud from NorCal across the country.

1:20:12Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I think there is something to that profile that you were talking about, Alec, that what the, mostly, most of those compounds, again, are terpene alcohol. So again, maybe there was something about the aging of that. And maybe again, about the way that You know, cannabis back in the 70s and 80s were smuggled up from Mexico or wherever up into, you know, where we lived in Northeast and some way that flavor, that essence, that flag flag you're talking about, took this guy right back to the 60s.

1:20:51Dr Mark ScialdoneOh man, that's how we used to taste, you know. He loved it.

1:20:58SpeakerI don't miss the taste of dirt. Remember when all the cannabis just actually tasted like dirt? That was crazy. Or like mold, right? Yeah, exactly.

1:21:07Etienne FontanWith hints of diesel fuel.

1:21:10Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, because sometimes it was packed in cartons inside gas tanks, right?

1:21:16Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd here's a paraquat.

1:21:20BubblemanYou know, when talking about these terpene profiles that repeat over and over again that Alec was mentioning, I just wonder how much the impact of prohibition and the mentality of how much can I get and how fast can I get it bottlenecked us into these particular dominant terpenes. What do you guys have to think about that?

1:21:42Etienne FontanWell, I mean, it's also been subjective of the farmer himself or herself, because even Sam has stated time and time again how he selected certain phenotypes based on the flavor profiles that he liked specifically. So there's also other types of genetics that were also lost due to our propagators who were actually perpetrating the genetics based on what they liked, also based off of the growing environments that they were successful in.

1:22:10BubblemanThey were so much more rare than how much can I get and how fast can I get it crowd though.

1:22:18SpeakerAlso, people were consuming large amounts. You know, if you think about the volume that they were smoking in a big giant cone or a big giant ball of hash. So the terpene to cannabinoid ratios were, you know, completely different than what you're getting in a joint. And maybe that had to do with one of the reasons why they were kind of actively seeking to volatilize a lot of those monoterps was because they were going to get a certain volume in there and then they're going to even higher because they had extra THC.

1:22:47SpeakerSo it's, I think it's a really interesting question and why they selected those varieties for their own particular, you know, their own particular needs versus why we select varieties for the market. Well, if you look at several hundred years ago, Mojave, They were selecting just by smoking and saving the seeds of the varieties that got them the highest or they liked the effects or the taste or the smell of.

1:23:18SpeakerAnd they were incredibly successful, actually, if you think about it. All kinds of recreational varieties are really just THC only until the CBD craze started. It was really common to find THC only varieties, especially in equatorial tropical varieties. It was really extremely common.

1:23:44ColinYou know, it's fascinating to kind of, you know, think about the ancient practices and selection and how, you know, kind of how much, I guess, brilliance of there was kind of through the plant that was cultivated by the people, you know, and then so much was lost in a lot of ways from the global kind of Prohibition against this plant and persecution against this plant and kind of I'm really curious on what those eradication efforts did to the rarity of cannabis, certain profiles that might have been lost forever that could have potentially provided medicine for the future of needs that we don't even know we need yet.

1:24:23SpeakerAnd so it's really crazy to see how much that prohibition and kind of- To be honest, Alex, to be truly honest, I think we've lost more by I think it's really important that we do good hippie types who think they're doing a favor by taking equatorial seeds to Afghanistan or Afghani genetics to tropical equatorial areas. And basically where the land races are being maintained, they're being polluted.

1:24:57SpeakerI think that's, with this modern jet age, that's actually happening even worse than what the police prohibition did. Although neither one of them did cannabis any good.

1:25:09ColinRight. Well, and I guess, I guess it's kind of like planting like eucalyptus in random areas and it becoming an invasive species kind of thing. Is that what you're saying? It's tainting the gene pool of the uniques?

1:25:20SpeakerIt's even funnier now because under the biodiversity, uh international united nations agreements that all the countries are members of if you collect seeds in a country like afghanistan or india or something you're supposed to share it with the government there the the same government that for the last 50 years has been prosecuting cannabis growers and destroying cannabis so i mean what is the world i really don't know anymore And I think that that really could be bringing in the conversation of like what's invasive and what's being traveled and what, you know, like there's certain areas and regions of the world that hold invasive species because a bird brought it there.

1:26:09SpeakerAnd because the soil and the area and the environment were perfect. And because nature called that particular plant to that area and zone. And it just so happens that a lot of the hippie types from the sixties and seventies that were trading the seeds were the ones that were traveling and humans have always traveled and we've always had relationships With seeds and especially with psychoactive plants. So whenever something sparks us, then of course we want to share it.

1:26:41SpeakerIt's part of our collective consciousness as human beings. So I think it would be hard to say, Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:27:10SpeakerThank you so much for joining us today. We're going to get started in about a minute or so. We're going to get started in about a minute or so.

1:27:34ColinAnd that environment and how much it's now helping in the kind of global kind of replanting and kind of, you know, kind of just the idea of sustainably how we kind of are able to grow these plants, you know, without depleting, you know, various regions of the world and the Amazon. But just from a biocultural, conservational effort, you know, how, you know, yeah, I appreciate that perspective.

1:27:58ColinWell, I think, you know, we're stewards of the plants, you know, helping the plant spread.

1:28:03SpeakerIt's maybe not the hippies. It's the other thing Sam mentioned. It's the airplanes. We can blame it on the airplanes. Airplanes, right. And also, I'm not sure cannabis is 400 million years old. I mean, it may be. It's possible. But I don't know. Steve Adubato, CDP, Scientific proof for that 400 million year old age. The endocannabinoid system is older than the.

1:28:31ColinYeah, the endocannabinoid system came before the cannabis plant.

1:28:35SpeakerRight. But another point I just wanted to make on this whole hybridization is that It's the natural evolution of organizms to want to spread themselves and disperse themselves as far as they can to be as successful. But at the same time, it's the isolation that creates diversity. Right. And you want to try to preserve that diversity if possible. Exactly. There's a really great movie or documentary and book called The Journey of Man about 10 years ago or so.

1:29:11SpeakerAnd it was about collecting the data on the human genome. And the point that was really interesting at the end of this documentary, they went around the world and they found all these points where human populations would diverge and come together. And they literally found the story of how our genetics moved around the earth. We now know that. We know we came from Africa. We've got a lot of people who are interested in this.

1:29:41SpeakerWe've got a lot of people who are interested in this. We've got a lot of people who are interested in this.

1:30:00SpeakerAnd that's what happened with cannabis. You know, we spread out, but then all of a sudden we spread out and we isolated and became unique, but then we all blended up again. You know, and it's kind of like the... The best examples of that is Mexico, Jamaica, and Morocco. There are no land races left in those countries anymore.

1:30:24Dr Mark ScialdoneDodge, we have all these mutts in the world running around, right?

1:30:28SpeakerRight, but it's nice to have Afghans and Chihuahuas. Yeah, and it's important to think about for culture and for just, you know, diversity in our own biology, how important it was for us to stay separate for so long before we started blending, you know, and the blending part is kind of inevitable because of the airplanes and because of the way our culture is connected and stuff like that.

1:30:53Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut are we ever separate if we were supposedly all from Africa? So we all supposedly came from Africa and then all of a sudden we became isolated and separate and different. And now we came back together and now we're mixing again because evolution needs it. I think it doesn't work to be isolated. That's the whole entire point of isolation, like isolation Thank you so much for joining us.

1:31:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, needing biodiversity and cultural polyculture. And, you know, I guaranteed a bunch of the Afghanistan families that came over, you know, in this last flux probably have maybe some ganja seeds on them. And you know what? I wouldn't say we're mad about it. Like, you know, we'll probably.

1:31:56SpeakerI'm not sure the Neanderthal people would agree with you.

1:32:02Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWell, I don't know, you know.

1:32:05SpeakerI think that the intuition here is that we are trying to explain something that a plant has been doing. So we are trying to take this human idea of what is best for the plant through our own experiences of what is best for the plant. And it's just very interesting of our explanations of natural science. And what we think is best in our own relationship with this plant.

1:32:37SpeakerAnd that's really what it comes down to because so many of us have these different relationships with the plant, whether it be only science or whether it be only nature. And it's like this human brain expansion that is us trying to explain it in our language so that we can So we can have a good experience with it. So we can have a good experience with it.

1:33:06SpeakerAnd it's all just really interesting. And I just wanted to say that all of it is so incredibly valid because our brain is like the filtration system of how it's all going to be spit out and how we're all going to understand this great microcosm of nature basically and how it interacts with us. I'm definitely in favor of saving biodiversity, both in plants, animals, people. I mean, I can think of nothing more boring than us all being the same.

1:33:39SpeakerThere's even a song, I think, it goes, wouldn't it be real drag if we were all the same?

1:33:45BubblemanDude, now that's an episode where both Skunk Man Sam and I have sung. You don't get that every hash church. I also have one other thing to say. Shout out to Terrence McKenna. I heard Alex drop his name earlier. I was in the other room cutting my kids some apples and cucumbers, but it was just Terrence's, would have just been Terrence's 75th birthday on November 16th. Huge inspiration in my life, you know, like really set me off on a path.

1:34:16BubblemanAnd I always drop this whenever Terrence's name gets brought up. My all-time favorite lecture by him is called Psilocybin in the Sands of Time. I'll put it into the description link. So anyone that wants to go check that out can. It is a doozy.

1:34:33ColinOh, I was hoping to get a screenshot of that picture you shared. I'll send it to you, bro. Thank you. That's really rad. I appreciate that.

1:34:40SpeakerAnd, you know, I want to say something to Sam. You're saying that, you know, that we're all the same. I think that it's pretty interesting. Just a little fact is that when you look at our DNA, we're like 99.9% all the same. But when you look at our microbiome, we're 99.9% different. So I think as long as microbiology is going to be alive on the planet, there's always going to be, you know, incredible amounts of diversity.

1:35:08SpeakerAnd I agree, viva la difference.

1:35:13BubblemanViva la difference.

1:35:15SpeakerHey, if you all allow me, I would like to just shine a light on the subject that is the passing of Antonio Escarrotado. I don't know if you all know who he is, but he was one of my favorite drug researchers. He wrote the history of the general history of drugs. He was a philosopher, a Spanish philosopher, and he just passed away. I just read the news.

1:35:35SpeakerHe was 80. So if you could all just like send some love to him. He was one of the people. And when I read his book that I realized that I wanted to study drugs. I'm not kidding. So if you could just share some love to the guy. He was one of the first well-known anti-prohibitionists that really spread words about it.

1:36:00SpeakerAll right.

1:36:01ColinThank you for that. What was his name again?

1:36:06SpeakerAntonio Escobotado. He wrote a book on the eighties and seventies about the general history of drugs. Like I remember that I used a bunch of my, in my thesis and it's very nice. Like it's very nice to read it. Like it's a very good flow of, on all the substances. And definitely he did one of the biggest publications on anti-prohibitionism. So he was, he was a real fighter and he passed away with 80 today.

1:36:32SpeakerSo. We're very thankful for his existence. I'm sure that without him, a bunch of other people wouldn't have been fighting against prohibitionism.

1:36:42Etienne FontanOur condolences as a collective to the great and hard work that they do and perpetuate. Much love and great respect.

1:36:54BubblemanYeah, absolutely. I raise my pipe to all the fallen soldiers and all the ones that are still here.

1:37:05BubblemanIt is. Someone just mentioned in chat, these church episodes is how wisdom can propagate. I do love when you guys share, you know, any type of, you know, drop the people of the names of the people that have inspired you, books that have inspired you. It's just a great source of information for people. And sorry, whoever was about to go can speak now.

1:37:27Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAll good, all good. I was wondering what varietals you will be bringing down that you really liked this year, Flynn and Alice to the Legends of Hash. And also I was wondering what you thought about the five degree shelf temp on the freeze dryer. And if you guys have gone for that or have you seen what's up with that?

1:37:50SpeakerI'll let Flynn talk about the freeze dryer. No, I don't usually go that low on the freeze dryer. I don't know. I like to keep my cycles so that they're done in like about 24 hours because usually we got more trays to put in there.

1:38:05BubblemanAnd how much can you max out on a freeze dryer like that? In 24 hours, what will you pull out of the freeze dryer in total weight?

1:38:13SpeakerI mean, it depends on the freeze dryer. Like the XL pharmaceuticals actually take a little bit longer than 24 hours sometimes. They're a little bit more like 30. But usually you can get like eight to twelve hundred grams in there pretty well and get it all dry. Kind of depends on the strain, though, too. If you're going to get it dry in that amount of time, some things take a bit longer.

1:38:36SpeakerOr if you don't load it perfectly and you get a little thickness in one corner because your trays aren't even on the thing or they're not level and then it takes longer to all that type of stuff.

1:38:48BubblemanI always found I couldn't get much more than a kilo into those freeze dryers. Labconco a little bit more, but Labconco is not really a freeze dryer you want to leave overnight because once it cycles, it dries much, much faster than the other ones. But it doesn't hold a cold temperature like Harvest Rites and Freeze Dry Co's and You know, those other those other units. It's an interesting game, the freeze dryer game, because I thought initially I wanted big freeze dryers.

1:39:15BubblemanAnd then I realized, no, I want to be specific to cultivars. The regulations in Canada, I can't mix cultivars. I could never wash two different things and put them in the same freeze dryer. So suddenly it became So it's really not that valuable of having a giant Mill Rock freeze dryer that I could fit 50 kilos of bubble into because I'm not going to be making 50 kilos of any one variety any anytime soon.

1:39:41BubblemanSo it's kind of what I found.

1:39:43SpeakerAt home, we never, ever feel the whole fridge dryer, I feel like it, at least because what we wash in the house is different than like in a... Up in Humboldt when we wash like 15 to... In a day, we'll wash 45 kilos of wet material. So that ends up being a hash on a 3% to 5% yield, so...

1:40:05BubblemanYeah, yeah, we do the same thing with, I mean, we're getting now into fresh frozen, but the same equivalent amount of cured and dried flour, which would probably be, you know, eight or nine.

1:40:17SpeakerAnd Josh asked about the variety we're taking down. I don't know. I don't know if we can speak about it. Can we? Yeah, I don't know. I guess. I don't think they say we can. I mean, I think we're going to. Okay, okay. That makes sense. I'm not sure. I'll tell you one thing. We're definitely not bringing rosin. And anyone who does, hey, you're going to hear from me.

1:40:38SpeakerI'll tell you that. We make fun of it because it's Legends of Hash, right? I'm like, it's funny when people bring Ross into a Legends of Hash. It's better to be introduced.

1:40:48BubblemanYou know what? We just have to create division. No matter how good anything is, we have to create division. We're human beings. It's impossible not to do. And so if we didn't build a fence and then look over and be like, your grass is different than my grass, we wouldn't be human beings.

1:41:06SpeakerThat's true. That's true.

1:41:08BubblemanIt's all in good fun. Oh yeah, trust me, it's not. It actually gets violent and insane. And some people have made it their mission to make that a big deal. Like, believe it or not, there's some people that are absolutely not just in good fun. They're actually upset and borderline raging Karen style. No offense to anyone named Karen that isn't.

1:41:33SpeakerWe are here making jokes, not being serious.

1:41:36BubblemanNo, no, I get the bet. I get all the behind the scenes stuff. So I can let you know that that particular joke has more depth than you may know to it. I'm just letting you know. I personally, what I said to Addison when he was telling me about a couple of people who were quite upset about it, because they, you know, people love to think they know what legends of hash.

1:42:02BubblemanOh, my God.

1:42:04SpeakerOh, no, he cut dinner.

1:42:06BubblemanSo there's really only two people know what it's about. And it can be about whatever we want it to be about because it's our event.

1:42:15SpeakerAnd we'll miss you. You won't be there.

1:42:18BubblemanWell, I'll be there on video only. And I'm hoping Sam's going to appear as well. Well, at least I am there.

1:42:29SpeakerWe're not going to be down to. And I just wanted to say, like, because, you know, the word division was brought up and I felt like it was an opportunity to jump in. And I feel like if we're going to be bringing, you know, the word cannabis into this and we're going to be partaking in cannabis and, you know, we talk about polyculture and we talk about, you You know, the inclusion of cannabinoids and terpenes and the importance of all of it.

1:43:00SpeakerI just feel like us as a human species has the absolute ability with this plant medicine to evolve out of separatism, to evolve out of this division and diversity. I just think that we can be done with that. And I think that, no, no, not a reflection at all to what We talked about just an idea that humanity is using division so much right now. And I just felt like a good opportunity to come in and say that polyculture and inclusion with diversity is absolutely important on this planet.

1:43:41SpeakerAnd we see that in Rachel Jones, Beautiful farms and we see that where plants just don't have any maladies or any sicknesses we see it where there's full health and balance and I feel like. Rachel Jones, that's where all of humanity needs to head to, and when we look at nature that's what's happening, and I think that we can do away with that diversity. And we can start seeing each other.

1:44:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDo away with the division. Add diversity.

1:44:09SpeakerSorry, do away with the division.

1:44:11Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd I would just like to add, we've seen natural people and herbalists and people that do herbal medicine that are really, really healthy. And you don't really get to be that person and go in society in certain places right now. I find that hard to understand. But I give thanks for the journey.

1:44:36SpeakerYeah. And we're just, anyway, just let's come together, people. That's the next evolution. The plant has evolution. We talk about the plant's evolution all the time. And we need to talk about our human evolution in this time as well. Love y'all.

1:44:51BubblemanVery well put, Kelly. Thank you. And I certainly didn't mean any offense to Flynn or Alice. I just that that joke does have more depth to it than most will know. And I let I say that to people just so they can know that there are people kind of behind the scenes in anything and everything that just want to stir shit up. And so, yeah, deal with that.

1:45:14BubblemanYou will. I'm going to enjoy the dab. I love some beautiful hash rosin. I hope that it'll be accepted here on Hash Church, even though it's not rosin church.

1:45:29SpeakerYou've got to remember that you can make rosin out of both dry-sift hash or dry-sift resin or water-sifted resin. And you can make rosin out of that. So I guess we've got two categories, dry sift rosin and water sift rosin and fresh frozen rosin and fresh plant rosin.

1:45:55Etienne FontanYou can just take it off and squish it.

1:45:57Dr Mark ScialdoneI thought he was going to say you could make rosin out of hash, but you can't make hash out of rosin. Oh, boom.

1:46:09SpeakerDr. Mark with the mic drop. Nailed it. Well, if Frenchie was here, he would find a way for you.

1:46:18Etienne FontanVery much inificacente.

1:46:26Etienne FontanMuch love, Kim. Much love, Frenchie. We miss you.

1:46:31SpeakerWe miss you a lot. Indeed. I was actually, um, when we, when you were all discussing the Terps and I was asking if there was a difference between the Rossi, the Terps in Rossi and the Terps in hash, I was thinking of what Frenchie was always saying about press to activate and going back to the history of hash that everyone presses hash before they smoke. Like everyone's just like making that little ball in their hand or Thank you for joining us today.

1:47:13SpeakerIf you could test that, like if you could just test the sample, like the fresh sample, and then after the hand press, what is the brief change that would happen? I would love to know that. I could tell you this much, that both, and I'm speaking for Marcus, but I think I'm speaking correctly. Both Marcus and I like dry sift without being pressed. We don't think it makes it better.

1:47:42SpeakerTell us why. It makes it different, but it doesn't make it better because it doesn't increase the terpene or cannabinoid content. And it decreased the surface vaporization area.

1:47:59ColinOne thing I would add to just as a thought, you know, something that we see in We've been, we've been internally discussing kind of creating kind of like a

1:48:38ColinA live resin, live rosin type, you know, kind of, you know, certification type. I'm not certification, just almost like stamp, you know. Other people are trying to, you know, I mean, the whole market is... Yeah, there's just people that want to authenticate basically whenever something's been live or fresh extracted from the plant. And so we've been like looking at, we're starting to kind of look at side by sides of and doing trials with various groups of basically measuring kind of terpene content and residual solvent content across various extraction and harvest batches to measure, you know, basically what kind of happens and what kind of certain things are being expressed in live plants.

1:49:28ColinAs opposed to once the drying process happens, because even though in the drying process, if you optimally do it, you know, you very much minimize and lock in the total terpene preservation or profile. But there are these other things that seem to be happening, like the these trace solvent levels, ball flies and go away, you know, kind of in this drying process. And so We're trying to understand more about that.

1:49:52SpeakerDo you know what part of the plant is actually producing? Is it the trichomes that are producing them, or is it other parts of the plant?

1:50:06ColinIt's a really good question. But it does seem like even human body, just a natural physiological

1:50:16Colinprocess within the plant or processes in humans is kind of generating these various kind of trace kind of solvents. I'm not a scientist, though, so I don't know anything.

1:50:25Dr Mark ScialdoneMalberg's work says that trichome accumulation is after it's synthesized in the trichome itself. So he kind of broke down where the cells are that the terpenes are made, where the cells are that the phenols are made, and how they come together. In the cannabinoid biosynthetic pathways. I think most of that is actually pretty well worked out.

1:50:50SpeakerAs far as I know, that's true. It was Kim and Malberg who did that work.

1:50:56Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Yeah. Professor Kim. That's right. That's right. And I think Marcus mentioned the interesting little structure in there, these things called vacuoles, which are basically little storage vesicles within the cell. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:51:35Dr Mark ScialdoneMark Holmes, Plants. It's, it's how the plant builds walls. There's so many different other structures that it uses. It just, you know, it's, it's an economy of carbon that, you know, the plant has figured out over the time course of evolution, how to make exactly all the structures that it needs to survive and thrive.

1:51:55Collin PalmerHank Jha for that. In terms of going from hash to rosin to cured rosin, I would say that there's a distinct difference from one another. However, they resemble one another at the same time. And it's not only in texture, but also the chemical properties that are present because of the curing that's happening. And whatever path you choose on that curing process, whether you choose to add heat or not, will also contribute to those things.

1:52:26Collin PalmerSo I think there is nuance. However, like art, it's, you know, these mediums are very similar to one another. It's just, it's on how you approach it. Awesome.

1:52:38SpeakerI want to say this about pressing hash in your hand. It's so fun, you guys, to have a little bit of hash and to be able to press it in a ball and squeeze it and feel it and smell it. I think that that joy of doing that gets me more high when I smoke it. You know what I mean? I become intimate with my product and I start to really get excited.

1:52:56SpeakerSo I think I, yeah, I think I just surf off that. So maybe that's what people do it because we like it. It's fun.

1:53:02BubblemanI'm more like, did you wash your hands?

1:53:05SpeakerBut I wanted to jump on that too, is that, you know, to answer your question more on a natural level in our connection already in our DNA connection to the plants, because we already know that because we have an endocannabinoid system that when we chew our food, the saliva is the very first parts of absorbing it. And when we're working with our herbs, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:53:47SpeakerThat particular plant and that secondary metabolites.

1:53:53Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd also huge love to Kush Kirk. Brandon, he took a whole entire plant this year and rubbed it down and did a whole charis rub on his plant. And he was super stoked about it. And he's definitely going to like devote a couple of big trees to just charising all day. And he's like, you know, it's a lot of work. And we were talking about it for a while and just, You know, really cherishing that, that passion, that resin that you get afterwards.

1:54:24Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo, you know, in your endeavor, there's a lot of really special things you can do to keep the cannabis medicine sacred for you and your community.

1:54:32BubblemanI will say this about that. Hashtag never touched. I'll never forget being at a Legends of Hash dinner and this guy before the dinner came up to my booth and showed me this beautiful piece of like glistening caramel. I was just like, oh my God, it looked like full melt. He had hand rubbed it. Right. So he I'm like, dude, with that, you get in, you get to buy a ticket.

1:54:56BubblemanSo he ended up at Legends. I never knew this guy. He was a total random stranger. I met and just was like, this guy needs to be at Legends. He hand rubbed like 10 grams of fucking hash. So we go to Legends. I'm sitting with Todd McCormick and his buddy Emilio, who owns the Trippy Stick Company, the vaporizer company. So these guys are like, they meet him right away because he sits at our table.

1:55:17BubblemanHe doesn't know anyone else there except me. And he's like, hey, guys, try some of this. And so they put a little bit in their trippy stick. And I also tasted it. And I have to admit, like, I don't know if he was warm and sweaty, but it tasted like feet. Like it was the we laugh about it to this day. Like it was so bad. I was just like, oh my God, like ATN, you probably might've been there and you, you, if not, you definitely have heard this story.

1:55:43Etienne FontanI've, I've heard the story of it tasting like absolute.

1:55:47BubblemanDude, trust me. And I'm not like making this up. I was like stoked for the guy. The hash looked beautiful. It was completely void of any plant matter contaminant, but I'm telling you, this was not. A terpene profile.

1:56:03SpeakerLike this was, this was some human interaction.

1:56:10BubblemanYeah, but it was high in B.O.

1:56:17Etienne FontanWell, I'd like to take my hash and my keef together and smoke them together. So I kind of like, why not both? You know what?

1:56:27BubblemanI can appreciate Debbie's making the hash. I used to love playing with hash. And you know, that's a great way to sort of put nervous energy into just rolling up a piece of hash. But I'll tell you, that guy at that Legends ruined it for me. Now I'm just like, ooh, don't touch the hash. Like, hashtag never touch. Don't touch it. Oh, can I touch that? No, you can't touch the hash.

1:56:50BubblemanThat's just me. I appreciate what Josh and Kelly were saying too.

1:56:55SpeakerI don't know if when you were in India, Marcus, If the Indians police were checking, we were up in the Himalayas and they were checking the sadhu's hands to see if they had hash calluses on them. If you'd been rubbing hash and you had a horseshoe shaped callus on both your hands, then they would hassle you or maybe threaten to arrest you or, you know. And I had one for, I don't know, six months.

1:57:29Etienne FontanGrowing up in rural Louisiana, when I was a kid, we'd get pulled over by the cops and they would ask to smell our fingers. I didn't know why because they didn't smoke pot because it was all joints back in the day. Turns out they were smelling our fingers to smell if we were out in the cane field smoking joints.

1:57:44BubblemanDamn.

1:57:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, they love to not love. Well, two things about India. I mean, they repealed the farm bill in India, which is really huge. The farmers have been fighting for their rights as farmers and food producers in India for well over a year now. And it's a phenomenal movement of human power and Vandana Shiva and all the work that's gone into You know, small farmers producing better quality stuff at a larger rate.

1:58:17Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, there's a lot of really good teachings in there. So that's really important. But also on the cannabis front in India, it's really bad right now. And they're just mowing down fields all over India right now and trapping people. And the laws are really, really bad in India. And we're going to have a conversation with Hemphati later on tonight or in the next couple of days.

1:58:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineShe lives in Milana. She's been in Milana for the last two years, a beautiful woman, you know, doing incredible work. You know, she's just been really wanting to get people's attention on to, you know, what's happening in India is pretty severe on the cannabis front right now. So everyone heads up if there's anything you can do out there, you know, to make some change or someone, you know, in the realm, you know, it's an important thing right now because we're talking about origins and we're talking about respecting your elders and cultures of where it came from.

1:59:09Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd now some of those places are All of these people are under fire and they're just taking brush cutters and just mowing down giant fields and stuff. And it's pretty hardcore.

1:59:19SpeakerSo sorry, they're they're targeting Indian celebrities, too. I see that they're taking down all these people at the high levels to just scare the crap out of everyone in India. It makes no sense when the rest of the globe is moving in another direction. Places of origin for the cannabis plant is behaving like that. It's anti-scientific, anti-logical as far as I'm concerned.

1:59:42Etienne FontanIn Germany this week, let me look at Germany. Germany is going to legalize cannabis, which is a huge signifier for the EU. But at the same time, going back to what Michael Krawitz and a group I'm working with at the United Nations are doing, I mean, we already got cannabis removed from Schedule 4, so actually medical cannabis is legal and Indians could be fighting at the UN regarding international, specifically.

2:00:09SpeakerThere are several medical cannabis groups in India.

2:00:13Etienne FontanAnd we will also be back in Vienna in March working on drug policy as well. We're going to have a group of us in New York and a group of us in Vienna. So we're working on that.

2:00:24Dr Mark ScialdoneThat other country that we hear about in the news a lot these days, China. Do you know what China's policy is towards cannabis? Not friendly.

2:00:34SpeakerDon't get caught with it.

2:00:36BubblemanYeah, they got in touch with Canada's government and said, we don't want our citizens using medical marijuana, using recreational marijuana, like made a statement government to government about Chinese kids.

2:00:51Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's okay for the synthetic labs over there to basically be making fentanyl and dumping it in Mexico where it basically comes through the border and ends up in basic, well, Yeah, there's a lot of things that don't make sense. Like when we had that Chinese or the Japanese fellow there who was looking at what, like 30 years for smoking a joint or something like that, makes no sense at all when you consider all of the business, the picks and shovels businesses that are in China and that are in Japan that are greatly benefiting from what's happening with cannabis across the globe.

2:01:31Speaker30 years for a joint? It's a good thing he wasn't smoking a bong. They would have given him 50.

2:01:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat's right. And it's because Martin.

2:01:41SpeakerMartin Singapore just got two, I think, a death penalty for two pounds of weed just recently.

2:01:51Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's fascinating that China took most, right? Don't you think?

2:01:55ColinI think that's really fascinating that China took that approach as such a like autocratic and control kind of, you know, I mean, because cannabis and I would imagine all the other psychoactive and theogenic plants and plant medicines of, you know, around the world are so subversive to their narrative. And you see how much is legal in an autocracy.

2:02:19Dr Mark ScialdoneThey need to control the way people think. And if people can basically grow their own medicine and think for themselves, And autocracy can't exist. So it does get political.

2:02:30BubblemanBut what makes you like when you're just kind of looking at the world cannabis economy, right? You're looking at the world cannabis economy. You're like, I need to make a bit of money. What makes you think like, you know what? I'm going for Singapore. It's the biggest bang for my buck. It's like, no, listen, just not even making a joke. These motherfuckers are not fucking around. They have giant zero tolerance, you know, signs, death penalty, like the whole nine yards.

2:02:55BubblemanLike, I wouldn't even go renew my visa there when I was in Thailand. People were like, we're all going down to Singapore to renew our visas. And I'm like, oh, we'll have fun with that. Like I smoke hash every single day. Like it's probably on me right now, stuck to me somewhere that I don't even know. If not, for sure I have enough in my bloodstream to get like 20 or 30 years.

2:03:15BubblemanSo I never have to worry.

2:03:18SpeakerThe whole world is changing. Who knows, before long, even Malaysia might be growing marijuana for people as medicine. Anything is possible.

2:03:29Dr Mark ScialdoneAt the MJ BizCon in Vegas a couple weeks ago, I did meet a couple folks from mainland China who were mostly over looking at CBD and CBD type products, but they were absolutely floored. I don't think they expected to see the level of THC products that there are available. And so these guys, I think if I had them characterized right, they own a bunch of bodegas in New York City, the New York City area, I think mostly like Queens and Brooklyn.

2:04:03Dr Mark ScialdoneThese bodegas are basically, you know, small little, you know, shops to get sandwiches, you know, sodas, you know, bags of chips and stuff like that. But they sell everything. They sell newspapers. They sell all kinds of stuff. And so now they want to basically start selling CBD, but they were totally adamant. Like it's been put into their head that, you know, any THC associated with these products is totally bad.

2:04:32Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I think it's because of their culture and it's because of where they come from. But I think now they recognize the financial opportunity that exists. And now they're probably going to go back to their folks and say, Hey man, We can make CBD and or sell CBD products, but ultimately people want THC, you know, people want cannabis. And so they were really interested in HHC and Delta A and all these other, you know, non-THC cannabinoids.

2:05:03Dr Mark ScialdoneBut as soon as you mentioned THC, it's like, oh, put the brakes on that. We're not intricate. No, no, no, no. Can't do that. No full spectrum anything. Only these other things.

2:05:12ColinThat's what's so magical about this plant too. It's so subversive just by its nature. And so we're luring for all these ways that ultimately kind of persuade one group or another. But I think whenever it really comes to so much of the potential of this plant, the greatness really comes in the Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:06:01ColinBrainwash out there.

2:06:03Dr Mark ScialdoneA free enterprise itself. These are Chinese businessmen. They just want to make money. That's all they care about is return on investment return. And so I think in their mind, they're reeducating themselves based on what they see in the US market. They have people walking into those stores asking for Delta A products, asking for CBD products. So All they know is that there's a market. We better go to this trade show, line up some supply chain agreements, start getting those products into our 150 bodegas that we have in and around the New York City area because this is just going to be like, this isn't going away, right?

2:06:43Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd the interesting thing, again, is that if you look at what's happening with some of the minor cannabinoids, it's really taking a different route in every state because some states are outright banning Richard Reinis, MD, You know, Delta eight and and and banning HHC and all these other things that you can make. Richard Reinis, MD, But other states are choosing to regulate those underneath their Delta nine licenses.

2:07:07Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so it'll be interesting to see how that shakes out because it's almost like there's a different program a different regulatory structure in every state.

2:07:15Collin PalmerHey, Dr. Mark, since, you know, so we we hung out at MJBiz and I wanted to ask you because I knew that that the Delta 8 was going to come down in the federal ruling and they were going to start to allow this. And we we both kind of share the same ideology. It seems that it's extremely dangerous to do things like that. How do you feel?

2:07:35Collin PalmerThat ruling affects where, you know, the hemp industry is at today. Allowing Delta-8 to be now in the supply chain.

2:07:46Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, first of all, it's only made possible through the ridiculousness of prohibition itself, right? So if Delta-9 wasn't prohibited, there would be no market for Delta-8. Delta-8 is just because, well, okay, people want to get high.

2:07:59ColinBecause the DEA.

2:08:01Dr Mark ScialdoneCBD, but these people can basically make CBD like there's no tomorrow, finding out that there's no market for it. They convert it now to THC, in this case Delta-8, and now you can get people high. Here's an interesting trend. You're starting to see people making Delta 9 from hemp and they think it's legal. But in my mind, and again, maybe not just my mind, but I think the way the law works is that, you know, the exclusion of THC in the Controlled Dangerous Substance Act has tetrahydrocannabinols, including Delta 8, including dronabinol, including Delta 9.

2:08:39Dr Mark ScialdoneThey're all categorized under Code 7370. And while I don't agree with first or schedule one listing of THC because it's not dangerous, so it doesn't need to be controlled, that's where the government has it, like it or not. And until they move it out of there, you need a THC license to sell these products legally. Now, the conundrum is, is that they're all being made from hemp derived starting material.

2:09:06Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you have hemp processors largely operating In an unregulated environment with no regulatory oversight whatsoever, in the most cannabis unfriendly states like Tennessee and Alabama and Mississippi, but even in cannabis friendly states in Colorado, for example, there are a lot of hemp processors now who are making these other cannabinoids because there's a market form. But a lot of that market, again, I don't know the way it is in California, maybe Debbie and ATN could tell us out here, I mean, it's just your gas stations and your bodegas.

2:09:47Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's no age restriction. There's no nothing. I mean, I don't think it was ever the intention of Congress when they passed the farm bill to enable the production of a psychoactive substance. That's why they put the whole thing about THC. It had to be 0.3%. I don't think the intellectual furnaces were burning hot enough to understand that Mishulam and Adams and all these other people, well, they figured out you could convert CBT to THC.

2:10:17Dr Mark ScialdoneWe knew that because we knew the literature. And I was like, well, this is just waiting to happen. I started seeing then HHC and everybody started bringing my phone off the hook saying, hey, aren't you the guy that patented hydrogenation? How could these guys be hydride? So what they were doing is They're now converting their Delta-8, which again, remember is code 7370 on controlled dangerous substance. It says you need a license.

2:10:44Dr Mark ScialdoneThe license of those businesses is all under mostly vertically integrated Delta-9 businesses. The last thing they want to do is get any competition from Delta-8, from hemp-derived stuff that's a whole lot cheaper and doesn't require the regulatory oversight. But I think the most important thing is that I have nothing wrong with the cannabinoid, right? Delta eight's probably fine and HHC is probably fine too, but the way it's being produced right now is probably not the safest for human consumption.

2:11:16Dr Mark ScialdoneI think that things are moving along pretty quickly, but we have a patent on HHCA, not on HHC. And so all these HHC producers, I think, are just taking their Delta eight, which again is listed in the Control Danger Substance Act, hydrogenating it, converting it to HHC, And people seem to really like HHC. The HHC introduction, at least across the hemp markets, have been pretty successful. These guys are making a lot of money selling it.

2:11:46Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd yeah, that's it.

2:11:50SpeakerWell, out here, we're not seeing in the Bay Area, at least those CBD shops all around. Like, I've seen other places when I've left town because we've got dispensaries everywhere. And they just changed the state law that's going to say now we can sell at dispensaries the hemp-derived CBD and what's the other one? Delta 8. But they haven't finished putting the regulations in. But I'm pretty sure that's just because they want to take the tax off the top of that.

2:12:16Dr Mark ScialdoneBut that's pretty big. That's pretty big. decision right debbie and that's kind of like i think from what i understand tell me if i'm correct here so the thing that the um the charlotte's web people tried to do federally with the fda in allowing cbd extracts from industrial hemp to be allowed as a new dietary ingredient or new dietary supplement fda said no i think gavin newsom said you fda yes And so that opens up basically market in California to get these minor cannabinoids to market.

2:12:54SpeakerIs that right, Debbie? Yeah, I think that is right. They just haven't put the regulatory scheme together yet. So we don't know what it's going to look like when they start showing up at our shops or how we're going to be able to sell it or anything like that yet. But yeah, I think California is doing the smart decision, bucking sort of that federal trend and just doing what needs to be done.

2:13:12SpeakerSo I don't even know what's happening. So just one day the ruling came out.

2:13:17ColinYeah, you know, and a little background on that too. And before, before I kind of get into that, like Mark, one point you were talking, me bringing up though, because there's all the CBD shops, you know, kind of that are everywhere, but like Delta and 8 cartridges and HHC cartridges and stuff, you can go into most head shops, kind of just like random kind of, you know, bodega style, kind of like, Chris Baird, Steve Baird,

2:13:56ColinYou know, it's been really fascinating because, you know, for the last, you know, many years now, two, three years, there's, you know, been basically the hemp bill that tried to get pushed through, you know, kind of really without any regard to public health and safety under the guise of industrial hemp, kind of just kind of having testing regulations around THC, which seemed really as a trippy kind of big ag subversion type of the whole space.

2:14:23ColinAnd California farmers in the licensed space were like, All we don't play that and basically shot it down each year, you know, because, you know, how and why do people growing the same plants, you know, because most people are growing industrial hemp are not growing industrial hemp. Ninety five percent of those people are going type three drug cultivars of cannabis, you know, and. Under the guise of industrial hemp, but are growing it that much more in industrial agricultural areas where there's that much more contamination potential pesticides and metals and all these things.

2:14:57ColinAnd so, you know, kind of, there's wildly kind of unregulated use of the word hemp and what it's actually being used for, whether it's medicine, drug supply chain, or whether it's like actual industrial fiber for, you know, processing and all these other things. Um, and so, California kind of this year passed, you know, AB 45 to establish, you know, kind of for the first time cannabis, you know, or hemp products in the licensed supply chain and kind of essentially allowing for, you know, kind of other states to get, you know, kind of CBD products into the state.

2:15:32ColinBut they put in place a level of parity with the, you know, cannabis testing regulations for licensed cannabis, you know, with regard to all these points on public health and safety. Um, you know, and so, so it's a huge step forward and there, you know, that's going to be, you know, playing out. And I think that's really going to help set a national standard for at which hemp should be tested.

2:15:53ColinUm, you know, um, especially if it's going to be making, you know, made into like medicine supply chain for pediatric epilepsy, kids, cancer patients, dietary supplement world of, you know, kind of, you know, this cannabinoid, these cannabinoids, but, um, But the, you know, it's hardly kind of on the same playing field or level with regard to, you know, kind of, you know, batch of requirements. I mean, there's, you know, kind of testing requirements in place, but there's not really a, you know, supply chain, regulated supply chain, you know, in any way for AMP.

2:16:25Dr Mark ScialdoneDo you guys have an analytical standard for HHC, Alex?

2:16:29ColinNo. I would love to talk to you more about that.

2:16:34Dr Mark ScialdoneI really appreciate that.

2:16:36ColinYeah, I really appreciate your insight also. You have a very nuanced, very specific understanding of this whole thing that is really far beyond most people.

2:16:45Dr Mark ScialdoneI've been running around the internet basically correcting all these bogus articles that people are writing on HHC. I must have corrected like seven in the last seven days. It's amazing. It seems like there's a new article on HHC and some people think they know what it is. This last guy last night was telling me that it's hydrogenated CBD. And it's like, man, you should talk to a subject matter expert before you put something up to some unrefereed blog.

2:17:14Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I was actually asked by Conigma. I don't know if you guys know the article or the website Conigma. It's kind of like a reservoir of cannabis science. They asked me to write an HHC article as well. Coming out hopefully a little bit. And hopefully it'll set the ground straight. And people will say, okay, yeah, this guy knows what he's talking about. Here's what this stuff really is, right?

2:17:39Dr Mark ScialdoneBecause there's all kinds of speculation on what it is out there and people just don't know.

2:17:45ColinOne thing I wanted to say real quick, and sorry, Colin, if you were about to speak up, but... You know, it's funny, this whole conversation around these conversions, you know, from the whole community of extract artists, you know, we've been catching a lot of shit for a long time and losing a lot of really good business with people that, you know, kind of, you know, we would show a test result with accurate chromatography and And, and show people at like 40% Delta-9 in their distillate or, you know, kind of whatever.

2:18:18ColinBut you see these huge peaks of these other compounds beyond Delta-8 because we identify Delta-8, but, you know, Delta-10, all these other kind of, you know, whatever they're, you know, state-of-the-art isomer that there are around, you know. Yeah, but, but now there's a whole... Go ahead. No, I was just going to say now there's like, I mean, we're catching shit about like, you know, not doing it right.

2:18:40ColinAnd people are kind of, you know, just going to labs that would misidentify those peaks as Delta nine, you know, but now like, it's just funny because now there's this like starting to be widespread understanding of, oh, you could actually through distillation process, create all these isomers. And now there's these widespread like, you know, these are, you know,

2:19:05Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I was just going to say the funny thing is that you hear fear mongering in the in the blogs of people who don't know what they're talking about, talking about all these unknowns in there, all unknowns, unknowns, unknowns. It's like, well, if you read the chemical literature like I do, I can tell you that they're not unknown at all. In fact, they're quite known. It's known exactly what's made in this reaction.

2:19:28Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so, like, when you do this conversion of CBD to THC, It generates non-natural isomers that aren't formed in the plant. They all have the same molecular weight, 314. And certainly in the testing labs that I've talked to about this and the samples that I've seen, those compounds are in every, unless you have this figured out, they're in all of these mixtures. And we really don't know what their long-term impact is to human safety.

2:19:59Dr Mark ScialdoneSo we just don't know because they're not made by the plant. And this is the first time they're being made for human consumption. And so it'll be interesting to see if folks who are producing this are able to not only quantify what those isomers are, but basically set product specification limits. So you know that if a batch has got 2%, well, 2% is no good, but we need to be down at 0.5 or whatever the cutoff is on some of these.

2:20:27Dr Mark ScialdoneBut until they do the safety assessments, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:20:54Collin PalmerSo we can kind of weed out and start to understand what these things are doing by actually calling them out from the jump. So we can actually study them. So what are your thoughts on that?

2:21:07ColinSo, so, you know, I think the burden of proving these compounds is on the manufacturers creating them more than it's on the lab to like identify these novel compounds and chase, you know, chase like the, you know, kind of the trends of where the market's creating isomers to be able to quantify. You know, I think that requires a lot of R&D work in, you know, with the laboratory to help, you know, be able to, you know, identify what the compounds are that the group's creating, you know, and, you know, kind of been through that, through the validation of it, through NMR, some stuff like that, you know, kind of, you know, all of a sudden then analytical standards can start to be identified and created, you know, um, You know, so that as soon as analytical standards are available, then like, you know, wheat labs can kind of, you know, stay up to date on kind of having these compounds added into their methods and validated.

2:21:59ColinYou know, but again, I think, you know, it's funny because in the past, we've kind of caught so much shit from clients, you know, that basically are like, My, this distillate is 40% THC. You know, you're wrong. You know, why, what is this other 60%? And it's like, dude, it's a, it's a novel compound. It's like this ghost cannabinoid isomer that you've created. I have no idea what it is.

2:22:21ColinThere's not a standard for it. Like I can show you a chromatogram that it's clearly that, and it's not Delta 9, you know, but, but we're testing for these compounds like Delta 9 that we have validated and tested hundreds of thousands of times, you know? And so, so I think that work, there's like,

2:22:37Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, novel work that needs to be done with kind of manufacturers that are making these compounds to be able to kind of, you know, again, do at that stage when they've just made 20 kilos of this stuff, they want it to be 40 or 80% or they want it to be exactly. It's an ungodly low percent and it's got all this other crap in there. Like, oh, let's just, you know, white film, distill it and put it in gummies, you know, and I think Again, I'd like to think that there's a place for chemists to play in this industry.

2:23:11Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I think the two spots are where Alec lives, which is on the testing side of things, but also on the R&D side in the manufacturing sector. So to me, it's like, if your process doesn't make something that's greater than 90% yield, it ain't ready for prime time. Unless you know what that other 10% is, and you could ascribe that other 10%, To known compounds or bridge to known compounds of known safety, then you don't have a safe product there.

2:23:40Dr Mark ScialdoneSo whether it's Delta eight or whether it's HHC, these are no longer naturally occurring in a plant and you can't refine a plant extract to get those compounds. You're talking about a reaction product of a chemical reaction. And I don't know about you. I hope that it's a chemist like me running that chemical reaction that knows what the hell it is they're doing.

2:24:03Collin PalmerYeah, truth. Yeah.

2:24:05SpeakerYeah, I think sort of the hilarity of all of this. And if we look at it from, you know, you know, an outward standpoint of How the brains of human beings, we fractal this medicine so much. We've created so many different laws and so many different regulations. And because humans are adaptogens, then we're always trying to jump through the hoops of the regulations. And I just think it's so hilarious that this plant continues to be fractaled out.

2:24:39SpeakerIn all of these different ways so we can jump through all the hoops that we're creating so that we can even create that we can't jump through anymore. I just think that it's pretty funny that this plant is so adaptogenic in the way that we are in our thinking and that we've come up with all these different ways that just really don't make any sense. But hey, they got through a hoop.

2:25:03ColinI really appreciate that thought. You know, it reminds me of, I was at an international cannabinoid research society conference one year. And, you know, there's all these amazing, you know, you know, presentations and knowledge transfer and all this. And then, and then there was this like, you know, PhD, like super tenured DEA, like chemist that was presenting about this like cat and mouse game that the DEA is having.

2:25:26ColinAnd this really big problem that there's all these synthetic cannabinoids that are hitting the market. And like they'll, you know, spice and K2 and all these things. And then like the, you know, the only way they'll even kind of find out about them is through some widespread kind of outbreak of like some really adverse reaction. And then they all of a sudden kind of test that supply.

2:25:47ColinIdentify this way crazy new compound, cannabinoid, synthetic cannabinoid. And then they schedule it. And then it and then by the time they've scheduled it, then there's new compounds in the market. And it's and it's this whole cat. And they're like presenting this dilemma, this cat and mouse game that they're having. It's so hard. And it's like in the whole time, the whole kind of people, everybody in the audience is just like staring at him like pissed because it's like it's the prohibition on this plant that's creating the market for all these super fractal kind of like You know, almost like dystopian, like just like off way off the plants kind of path of what this, you know, of cannabinoids to hit the market.

2:26:26ColinBut, you know, they're doing it anyway and it's making it out there. You know, some of this, a lot, so many of the synthetic ones are like really gnarly. You know, I, you know, I'd be curious about like long-term efficacy for Delta 8 or HHC and all that, you know, and it's probably, it's probably good. It's probably fine, you know, compared to some of these crazy synthetic cannabinoids.

2:26:44ColinBut again, yeah, it's like, it's just so trippy because it's the prohibition on this plant that's like leading to all this divergence from the path, you know, instead of, you know, being able to actually cherish the like magic that the plant actually presents if you just give it the chance.

2:26:59SpeakerYeah, but the feds have that law, the blanket law, the analog law that says that anything that is a spinoff from a drug, a schedule one is a schedule one drug. But the thing is, is it's like that toothpaste out of the tube thing. What are they going to do? Come after everyone at this point that like we've literally outnumbered the DEA and the feds so hardcore they can never get it back.

2:27:18SpeakerAnd the toothpaste will never, ever go back in the tube at this point. Never. It's over.

2:27:23Dr Mark ScialdoneI think this is just all part of the movement to de-schedule the plant and to take THC off the list. Again, it flies in the face of conventional knowledge that there are several FDA approved drugs where cannabinoids that are from the plant are the active ingredients in those drugs. They have a good therapeutic index. They have low toxicity, yet the plant from which they're derived has no medical value.

2:27:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd that's been happening since, you know, even LSD and Hoffman and Owsley, Stanley and Nick Sand, who were making LSD in the 60s.

2:28:07SpeakerAnd Tim Skully.

2:28:09Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd Tim Skully. A lot of people don't know about Tim Skully, which is not Rock Skully. And, you know, just talking about how, you know, there's an early crystal that was made, you know, during a time when it was legal. And then the FDA or the government started going after it. And then they said, oh, we were trying to produce a, what was it, ALD 52. You know, and they're like, Hey, come on, this was LSD 25, you know, so, you know, and these people went on to like do other amazing labs all over the place.

2:28:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo for sure, you know, that's, that's the chemist, you know, you just, oh, we'll just heat it up and we'll pressurize it a little bit different and, you know, change the compounds and hallelujah, we're, we're in a whole new realm.

2:28:51SpeakerAnd it's also pretty cool. That's been a very fruitful area.

2:28:55Dr Mark ScialdoneI just wanted to say, it's been a very fruitful area. In general, to look at inspiration from biology. So when you look at the compounds that biology produces, that's where a lot of our pharmaceuticals and drugs are discovered. They're discovered by making analogs around those pharmaceuticals or what typically in drug discovery they call privileged platforms. So a privileged platform is just a molecule like a cannabinoid that No matter what groups you decorate on it, it's going to have some level of activity.

2:29:32Dr Mark ScialdoneThe great thing about cannabinoids just in terms of their therapeutic index is that they're ultimately not toxic. So a lot of these compounds, especially the compounds that were developed by pharmaceutical companies to act on the cannabinoid receptors, not only are they toxic as hell, but they have a lot of non-specific interactions. They interact not just with the cannabinoid receptors, but with every receptor in the body. And so You can't just throw a monkey wrench into the engine of your body and expect it not to have any deleterious impacts.

2:30:06Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's the great thing about the phytocannabinoid skeleton in general is that it's very lipid soluble. And so because our bodies have a lot of fat, especially my body, that fat is basically reservoirs to hold just like a dirty bunk. Those cannabinoids inside your body as long as we possibly can. So our body has actually evolved mechanisms to hold onto these compounds because they're so beneficial. And the last thing I'll say is that unlike most antioxidants in our diet, like the polyphenols and coffee and grape juice and shit like that, unlike those types of antioxidants, those are water soluble.

2:30:50Dr Mark ScialdoneSo cannabinoids are not water soluble. So indefinitely, they, they protect the fatty tissues of your body from oxidative damage caused by free radicals. So again, it's been said many times before cannabis use all uses medical because you're protecting the fatty tissues of your body, including your pancreas, your brain and your kidneys against from radical mediated oxidative damage. So these things are going to be looked at as a nutritional type of supplement in the future because it's going to lead to healthier humans.

2:31:26SpeakerI'd love to follow up. I wanted to jump in about, you said something about a monkey wrench. And I just wanted to say that when we're talking about pharmaceuticals and then extracting certain compounds and those compounds that have been maybe isolated and studied, and then that's what's being put inside of the human, well, that lacks the full spectrum. That lacks the full thing. So what we're also finding is when we're synthesizing and when we're isolating like that, Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:32:25ColinI'm sorry. Yeah, I actually wanted to follow up on both of those great points, you know, like, you know, and a big shout out to ethnobotany and the legendary ethnobotanists of the past, you know, that have kind of really helped to carry this coveted wisdom about the medicinal properties of plants to Western world, which has kind of been the foundation of so much of the modern pharmaceutical kind of compounds created, you know, so many of the antihistamines that we use and are around really are kind of Aaron Wendel, MD, M.D., M.D., M.D., M.D., M.D.

2:33:12ColinPretty much all is, you know, found in plant, you know, foundations. And so, you know, there's this really amazing podcast I would highly recommend from the great ethnobotanist, Dr. Mark Plotkin, called Plants of the Gods, you know, kind of name and tribute to, you know, great Albert Hoffman and Richard Evans Schultes that wrote the book together back in the day. But there's a podcast called Plants of the Gods that kind of You know, from a really amazing kind of biocultural, conservational aspect kind of attributes plants and the people where these plants kind of, you know, kind of come from.

2:33:48ColinAnd, you know, and just really, really beautiful narratives about all these, you know, very sacred power plants that are used and just the ones that aren't even really recognized or known. But, you know, I have a lot of faith in the plants, you know, and the people that, you know, have like learned how to use these plants and these technologies over time. And, you know, a lot more, All in and in service to that path, then, you know, the pharmaceutical discovery path, you know, to start just like randomly kind of start plugging at receptors, you know, in that way of hacking into the systems that are already perfectly figured out.

2:34:23ColinBut anyway, just wanted to share that.

2:34:25SpeakerI'm glad you did. I just went and followed that podcast.

2:34:34Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's an amazing podcast. It really is. And if you ever get a chance I think he's either got a TED Talk or there's a YouTube of a talk that he gave. His photographs are fucking amazing. He has some of the most amazing photographs of the Amazon that I've ever seen.

2:34:57SpeakerIt's just sort of cool to remind ourselves that no matter what we have created in the name of science or whatever we have manipulated as far as carbon or as far as any kind of compounds, it's all of the earth. everything that we have manipulated and it's all come from the earth even like the plastics yes they're not naturally occurring but everything is of the earth and i just think that that's just a really interesting thing that of course all of our medicinals would come from the plants because they're of the earth Everything would be coming of the earth.

2:35:41SpeakerSo, of course, we've figured out ways to synthesize it and make it unhealthy for us. And that's been really awesome in pharmacopoeia.

2:35:54Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're blowing my secret ingredient, stardust, right?

2:36:00Dr Mark ScialdoneWe put stardust in the really special stuff.

2:36:07Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're not importing feedstocks from Mars, not yet, right?

2:36:15Dr Mark ScialdoneNot yet. Although, who knows, right?

2:36:18Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd I love the work of Alexander, Sasha Shulgin, and all of the compounds that he created. Yeah, blessings on him, of course, if you're going to talk about psychoactive drugs and different... You know, I mean, how many did he make? And I think he was in the, you know, trying them all and just really supporting all of the doctors throughout all these years. You don't know it, but like Alexander Shulgin is just right there, you know, in court cases and studies and stuff and, you know, give thanks for some of the medicines that, you know, were created there for sure.

2:36:55Dr Mark ScialdoneHe wasn't, you know, there's still a whole lot of work to do there. Really, there is. Right. Again, his two textbooks, right? Tryptamines and phenethylamines. These are, again, privileged platforms that you could decorate with just about any molecular spinach you want. You're only limited by the imagination of the chemist, right? And so you could put a group over here, see what it does, take a few pills.

2:37:21Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, that makes me feel tired. And he did. Let's put another group over here, you know, and really do your own SAR.

2:37:27ColinAnd you know what? Yep. You know, and you know, what's fascinating is I think those are the two divergent paths really with the plants. You know, it's like this ethnobotanical, like biocultural conservation, like supporting the communities where the medicines come from and understanding how to use them most effectively in reverence to the plant and to the people where they come from. And then also this world of And, you know, it's, you know, kind of, there's this,

2:38:20ColinAnd this is this creation, you know, potential of, you know, kind of being able to, you know, hack the, you know, kind of the, you know, the molecular, you know, kind of understanding of the endocannabinoid system and tryptamines and, you know, dopamine system and all this, and to be able to create compounds that can fit into these pathways. But I do also believe that very strongly that there's an incredible, again, burden of proof So, you know, there's a lot of work that is on those people that are making these compounds, and especially if they're going to be making them readily and, you know, accessibly available, you know, to prove efficacy and safety, you know, first and foremost, before kind of there's this rapid release, you know, because...

2:39:04ColinAnd I think, you know, there's, you know, Shulgin's really the only dude that did it really right, you know, I think in his world. And I think people that took kind of Shulgin kind of paths with the endocannabinoid system to create all these novel, you know, kind of synthetic cannabinoids that have kind of gone to lead to all these outbreaks of just public health issues, you know, kind of did Shulgin a disservice, you know, kind of in that because they were just, they weren't, they weren't creating the molecule and dosing themselves and figuring out the thing.

2:39:30ColinYeah. And then like putting that out. Very responsibly, they were just like creating batches and like dosing the population, you know, and that's pretty ass.

2:39:39SpeakerThe other thing is, is that we don't look at the long term effects of this. You know, what Shulgin put out is he definitely had mass peer studies, but he's just one man in an adult life creating pretty phenomenal things and massive peer review studies. That were on his own. And I just feel like here it is again that we're putting shackles on the possibility and the educational attributes of plant medicine when we continuously try to regulate them.

2:40:11SpeakerBecause what would it be like? What kind of a society would we be Thank you so much for joining us.

2:40:31SpeakerThank you so much for joining us today.

2:40:57SpeakerYou know, MDMA is made out of that. We could get that maybe in a chewing gum or whatever.

2:41:03Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineCanary grass or San Pedro cactus. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like there's. So it's just interesting. Straight to the T, straight to the old world. You know what I mean? That's.

2:41:12SpeakerAnd I think that that creates more the longevity.

2:41:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, that's the longevity. That's the blue zone. You know, that's the that's the the ultimate, you know, lift of the spirit.

2:41:27ColinI think coca leaf to cocaine is such a good example. You know, coca leaf that is revered for thousands of years as one of the highest preyed on appreciated plants across the Andes, you know, is the divine leaf of immortality, you know, and kind of the longevity of that is real, you know. And, and, and how, and how, you know, how much that medicine of a, of a, of a plant is, you know, as opposed to the cursed kind of extracted way, overused way, overly kind of self-gratifying way, like ego building.

2:42:00ColinI mean, it's, it's totally different. It's a totally different thing.

2:42:03SpeakerThose are not the same things. Yeah.

2:42:07ColinIt's like, um, they, what it's like, I've heard it described as, um, uh, coca is to potato as cocaine is to vodka.

2:42:17SpeakerYeah, that's about right. When I was married, which was long ago, I was married to an Andean man who was Peruvian, and coca is actually symbiotic with their bodies. They're one, the plant and their bodies are the same. And lately I've been thinking about, for example, mushrooms, because here I live in Oakland, it's legalized here locally. And I've been doing micro doses so great, but I did a micro dose and I didn't take time to develop my sentence setting in my mindset because I've been doing it regular, right?

2:42:45SpeakerAnd I was like, oh, I'll just do a micro dose. And I did it on the fly. It bit me in the butt so hard because that is a sacred plant. And you really have to watch your headspace and you have to use it in a certain way. So I'm curious as we unveil these things, how are people, how many people are going to get in trouble sort of physically or mentally not treating these plants with the kind of respect like the Andean Peruvians do where they're symbiotic with the Thank you so much for joining us.

2:43:35Etienne FontanI couldn't believe it.

2:43:36SpeakerNovice mistake. I was thinking I'm a professional 30 years doing this. What the hell? And it got me. But yeah, it did get my brain wrapped around this kind of sacred plant set and setting thing a lot clearer. So I was very appreciative for the lesson. I think people's definitions of a microdose is not all on the same. Because like to me, I hear people going, well, a microdose is like 0.1.

2:44:00SpeakerAnd I'm like, 0.1? Hey, like that's... OK, I guess I think you could catch a buzz off that, though, like and other people are doing much smaller amounts. So I think I think that data needs to get put together so people can kind of all be on the same page. What is an accurate microdose? To me, a microdose is there's no psychedelic effect. There's no like butterflies in your stomach.

2:44:24SpeakerThere's no nothing. You could literally like honestly just go about your day. But what you're talking about is like something different. The the old I thought I was a professional, and now I'm like, how long is this going to be for again?

2:44:39ColinYou know, I really appreciate that thought, actually, too, because that's one of the, you know, within the world of cannabis, you know, kind of when testing came along, the biggest thing it really helped to change and level the game up on was being able to start to get towards a standardized dose, especially when you're making manufactured products or edibles or micro dosing things, you know, because that's such a great point, you know, kind of You know, was it a 0.1 or a 0.2?

2:45:03ColinWas it, you know, kind of albinopedias envy or was it this other type variety, you know? And so I think, you know, the identification of what even might, I mean, or just, you know, if there's an agreeance on microdose is 0.1, you know, it's like, is that, you know, there's, that can vary very much between varieties, you know? And so, so kind of, you know, I think, you know, cannabis in such a way You know, what's really cool, just a random thought I've been working on for a minute is, you know, everybody's freaking out like we're in the apocalypse, you know, and the apocalypse, the literal definition of the word is time of revelation or the great unveiling, you know, and so many ways I can't help but feel that plants are the horsemen of this apocalypse, you know, with cannabis and hemp at the lead, you know, that are helping set the path forward, you know, because you just see this rapid path of, Thank you for joining us.

2:46:10SpeakerWell, Alec, you really, that's really important. And thank you for bringing that up because I think that there's something, you know, we're trying to unwrap in the cannabis industry, this discussion around potency, you know, that we all know it's not just THC. We know there's a whole synergistic thing going, but I feel like the missing conversation there is, The set and setting is endogenous compounds. That's what set and setting means.

2:46:37SpeakerWe think of set and setting as all these things that are around us, but it's how the things around us influence our own internal chemistry, right? And certain, certain, certain, Certain cannabinoids and certain compounds, certain psychedelics and stuff really stimulate our own. I mean, anyone who's taken psychedelics knows that as soon as you, it already starts, right? You start building that up because you had that anticipation.

2:47:04SpeakerAnd the same thing with cannabis. There's certain cannabis varieties that stimulate your endogenous chemical factory And they interact like I feel like there's these three intersecting lines of cannabinoids, terpenes, and endogenous compounds. And where they intersect is where the potency lies. And a big part of that is knowing like, hey, there's a certain set and setting that is going to react to these particular chemicals and create this other high.

2:47:32SpeakerAnd now that we're in the pandemic, the setting has changed so much. And for me in my life, my set and setting around cannabis completely shifted because for one, I'm not with my homies anymore. I'm in my home office with my family on the other side of the wall. You know, it's a totally different relationship with the same plant. And I think that there's something there, that there's certain varieties that really trigger anxiety in certain people if their set and setting isn't right.

2:48:01SpeakerBut at the same time, those same varieties are the ones that stimulate that intense psychoactive experience if your set and setting is right. And people have kind of steered away from those varieties because they don't want to take the chance of having an adverse reaction. Where they need to really, you know, that's like riding that razor's edge of where you're the chemicals outside and the chemicals inside are in complete harmony.

2:48:27SpeakerThat's that whole human plant experience. To be honest, there is no one potency. Because some people think potency is physical. Some people think it's mental. So there is no one potency any more than there's one cannabis for everybody. There isn't. I mean, there can be things that people prefer. And a lot of people prefer very different things.

2:49:06Etienne FontanThe most miscommon ask people reach out to me for specifically when looking for something medicinally is they're looking for a cannabis that works specifically for their issue. It is still a dominant misinformation that's being perpetuated. Because when I make them aware that it's completely subjective and what if you and I can have the same condition, what works for you won't work for me and vice versa. That's mind blowing to them.

2:49:35Etienne FontanThey can't understand that we have to go along the same process of trial and error for you to find out what works for you. There's no magic one of Sam and all those guys have not created that one magic asthma bud, the one cancer. That's the one thing. What specifically for this cancer that I could use? And the most frustrating thing that I have to tell them is we don't know.

2:49:59Etienne FontanWe don't understand. You're going to have to try it by trial and error document. And I have them definitely write it down in a notebook and, you know, document how they feel when they take it. You know, what did they eat? What were they feeling? When was onset and when did it finish? So that later on they can get an understanding because they're in the experience, but later they need to understand or their caretaker or person working with them or their doctor Dr. Michael Gomez, M.D.

2:50:26Etienne Fontan: It's very helpful to take that information so they can show what you're using how much you're using what you're using it for how much dosage and. Dr. Michael Gomez, M.D. : How much is and how long is it lasting for those are all very helpful and all decision makers that you find in what works for you, so I agree that psychedelics are just. As subjective as cannabis and what would work for Debbie for a microdose could be a potential heroic dose for someone else.

2:50:56Etienne FontanAnd a microdose from what else turns out to be a heroic dose for Debbie. So, you know, it's still rather fascinating. But the most frustrating thing to say is even after all this and honestly is we don't know.

2:51:10SpeakerAnd I think that Mohave, what you were just saying, and also Alec, is that this has always been known because even when you go to traditional people that dish out the medicine, that prepare the medicine for you, they hold the space, they clear the energy, they cast the spell. All of that is protection for your spirit. It's protection for you to be able to have this relationship with this plant.

2:51:39SpeakerSo they're creating a space for you to be able to have a safe relationship. You know, for lack of better words, they're creating soft padding So that your relationship and they create a mediation. So the epigenetics and the situation and the cast and the set and setting is just all a part of that same thing that we talk about with the ancient settings of casting a spell.

2:52:07Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd Maria Sabina from Mexico. Look up Maria Sabina as one person who's done amazing work with You know, Cubenzas and Palenque and that whole zone. Also, just, you know, compounding medicines is really crucial. And I think with microdosing especially, you know, it's the compounding psychedelic, you know, the mushrooms with other supportive herbs in a capsule form, you know, so that you can kind of say, oh, I'm going to take the same amount of capsule with all these other supportive herbs so that my liver is not too toxed out if I'm going to take it, you know, for a whole year.

2:52:46Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOr, you know, the kidneys don't get compromised or stuff.

2:52:49SpeakerWhich is also part of the set and setting, which is the protection as well. You want to be able to look towards not only the elders who have held the medicine, but also the elder herbs who have also been compounded together forever and ever. They also help hold the set and setting of what you're taking to create more of a protection of you having a relationship with that person.

2:53:16ColinI really appreciate that. You know, something I'd love to add in kind of which it's just such a good conversation, you know, kind of ties both of these topics in with where you were bringing up Mojave kind of about that, like the endogenous lead up to the kind of overall potency of an experience. You know, because it's so true across kind of plants and kind of the, you know, the traditions we're using, these contexts that we're using these plants and, and, you know, to Debbie, your point of kind of, you know, just this, that experience, you know, kind of, you know, it's, you know, just using cannabis as an example, you know, it's fascinating because, you know, like, you know, I'm a veteran in the Navy, ATN, I know you're a veteran too, but as your soul, you know, You know, I've worked with a lot of veterans over the years to help kind of reframe their experience with cannabis, you know, because, you know, there's this thing that can happen if you don't come to cannabis correct.

2:54:05ColinIt can slap you in a way that you'll create such a negative response that you might not ever do it again. And so there's a lot of people that are first time users that, you know, take some long break in between that start back or people that kind of one day just shifts from taking way too big of a dose. But it's kind of a respect and kind of set and setting type factor.

2:54:24ColinBut it'll create a super negative reaction that, you know, kind of leads to this, oh, it's maybe it's not for me anymore, you know, and you hear all these different people that say, oh, the cannabis these days is so strong. It's what happened is like there was this, you know, pathway or protocol setting and kind of dose that wasn't followed or respected. Ultimately, you know, that kind of led to this reaction.

2:54:46ColinBut with cannabis, you know, there's a way you can help reframe the experience. And part of it is, you know, kind of immediately start micro dosing THC and, you know, having really elevated levels of CBD or say CBG or something. But then it's the whole kind of the ritual of like taking a bud and grinding it up and, you know, kind of, you know, going through the process of rolling it, you know, and starting kind of almost set your endogenous path kind of forward with it.

2:55:15ColinAnd, you know, kind of then, you know, kind of taking that, you know, that you rolled ritually in that way or whatever the ritual is that you do with it, but it's putting attention to it in that way. And then it's doing something that's associatively pleasurable, you know, like going and eating, uh, You know, favorite dessert or going on a walk with your sweetie or going kind of, you know, out in the water or whatever it is that, you know, you would like.

2:55:37ColinBut, you know, and then over time with cannabis, you know, kind of from this protocol, you know, you can kind of over time, you know, like keeping this ritual going, you know, the same process, you know, kind of over time, you can start eventually titrating, slowly titrating up your THC that's in that blend. And then all of a sudden you're able to And so I think kind of there's, that's such a big process with, you know, how we're, you know, it's like, like I used to do a lot of bud tether educational seminars at retail dispensaries.

2:56:16ColinAnd I would almost like, I try to lecture them about like, you know, how, how sacred of a role and act it is to be able to be this person to help share this experience with somebody that's new, that's never done it before and how, If you do that wrong, that could be on your karma, you know, because you might have like just dabbed out that old lady or like just blasted them on that like Chiba Chew thousand milligram edible, you know, that they might not ever smoke cannabis because again, even though it might have been in their destiny to heal their cancer with this plant that you just did that, dude, you know, to take that responsibly.

2:56:48ColinAnd so so just like kind of that understanding with cannabis, I think goes triple. So with kind of all these like new kind of emerging entheogenic plants, Because, you know, you know, I mean, I've definitely been there before, like when, you know, kind of eat mushrooms at the wrong setting context, you know, had, you know, kind of, you know, just slammed into the ground and just destroyed, you know, and, you know, my, you know, in my experience, and it was a very, very humbling experience.

2:57:14ColinAnd just, you know, just really showing me the importance of the reverence that we need to take You know, kind of engaging with these plants and, you know, just not taking it, I mean, taking it, not taking it for granted and taking it seriously, just in, you know, how we do it and just the reverence we do it in.

2:57:33Etienne FontanHappy belated Armistice Day to you. I don't consider it Veterans Day because that's more propaganda for the industrial military complex, but happy Armistice Day belated. But with the veterans that we're working with, we all consider cannabis our daily palliative because, you know, we have a daily acclimatization to it. And after 30 days arriving at regular cognitive levels, whereas we see psychedelics and mushroom as the next front for our veterans to really hit at the deep issues, even micro dosing and working with Thank you so much for joining us.

2:58:13Etienne FontanThank you so much for joining us.

2:58:38Etienne FontanIt's a new and beautiful frontier. So if you're out there in psychology now, look into this new front so that you can educate yourself and become one of those therapists because there's millions of people who need psychedelic healing, not just our veterans. We're just a small subset. We're trying to prove fact as the culture that we are. And we are establishing that. And we're doing so so that the larger society in general can benefit from it.

2:59:04Etienne FontanMuch love.

2:59:05SpeakerI love it, Etienne. Thank you for sharing that. It's funny because I've been kind of bubbling about trying to do a show more based on this psychedelic conversation. And I've been talking to a business partner of mine who runs an account called Inoculate the World and Inoculate the West. His name is Drew. Super awesome guy, deep in the mushroom world. And we're sort of trying to put together a hash church, mushroom church kind of version, a mushroom dialogue or a psychedelic dialogue more so than just mushrooms.

2:59:39SpeakerSo some of you for sure will have to get invited to that. I want to thank everyone for coming out today. It is noon now, so we've been rocking it for three hours. And my son Tanner is like anxious to go, you know, maybe pick mushrooms or go play or something. So We're going to go do that. But yeah, it was awesome to see all of you and hear all of your voices.

3:00:00SpeakerAnd I really enjoyed the conversation today. I want to thank the 300 plus people that watched and sort of.

3:00:12Collin PalmerMarcus cut out.

3:00:14SpeakerOkay, I'll make it over the show now.

3:00:19Etienne FontanEverybody, don't forget to mash that like button. I needed to wrap it up.

3:00:25SpeakerI needed that. There you go. Wrap it up. Wrap it up. Love you all.

3:00:32Dr Mark ScialdoneHave a great day, everyone. Have a great day. Thank you, everyone.

3:00:36ColinPeace and love.

3:00:37Dr Mark ScialdonePeace. Tons of hash.

3:00:39ColinExactly.