THCP and Cannabis History

0:00BubblemanAnd of course my internet is unstable.

0:05BubblemanGotta have an unstable internet connection to stream, right?

0:09Etienne FontanOtherwise you're not on the internet.

0:13BubblemanThat's the truth.

0:14Etienne FontanIt's a series of poods, you know.

0:18BubblemanAll right, so we are live. I'm just gonna share this new link with the folks Great if that would close. Yes, it's not gonna. There we go. Sorry about this, guys. Usually I'm a little bit more organized.

0:36SpeakerI've heard about this new link. It's the same as the old link. And we won't be fooled again.

0:43BubblemanWe won't be fooled again. Well, thanks, Last Minuters. It's nice to have a few of you guys in the room. I think Colin's going to show up. Johnny B said he might show up and Mark Sheldon might show up as well. Oh, what do you got there, Sam?

1:02Etienne FontanOh, looks like some terpy goodness. Jesus, looks like some honey oil. Okay, what is it, Sam? One gram of DHCP. DHCP, it says. DHCP, whoa.

1:16BubblemanI think I saw a P on there. Absolutely correct. Of course, Sam, eh?

1:25Etienne FontanYeah, right. So, Sam, what's the high on that sucker?

1:30SpeakerIt's strong as fuck.

1:35Etienne FontanStrong as fuck, ladies and gentlemen. You heard it here first on Hash Church. Strong as fuck is Skunk Man Sam's THCP. So are you taking like a micro pen tip head of that or how are you?

1:49SpeakerI took a couple of regular size dabs of it. And it was a bit creeper at first. And then I smoked the third one. I smoked half rosin and half THCP. And about the time I finished that one, I was getting pretty hammered from the first two. And yeah, before long, I couldn't walk.

2:23Etienne FontanLiterally lost the motor functions in your legs or you just fell?

2:28SpeakerNo, I could walk, but I had to hold on to the walls and I felt like I was doing the shimmy shake as I did it.

2:38SpeakerWhat it kind of reminds me of is if you eat a lot of THC and it goes through the liver pass, first liver pass, and then you end up with 11-hydroxy, it reminded me almost more of 11-hydroxy than THC, because I smoked, I vaped it.

2:59Etienne FontanHow long did it last? What was the onset? How long was the onset?

3:04SpeakerIt lasted quite a while. Onset was not super particularly fast, but it had long duration, very long duration.

3:18Etienne FontanCan you give us any type of an hour, two hours, 15 minutes, no time designation?

3:26SpeakerNo, because I was too fucking high, man.

3:30BubblemanDude, I don't think enough people understand how ridiculous that is, what you just said.

3:37BubblemanI was too fucking high.

3:39SpeakerWhen's the last time you were too fucking high? When you ate like a hundred hits of acid? Not very recently, but if you try hard enough, sooner or later you do succeed.

3:50BubblemanAin't that the truth? I'll say that is the truth. Even for myself, who I don't claim to have the same level of tolerance as you, I can puff pretty good, but every once in a while I surprise myself and I just find myself like, whew, I destroyed myself.

4:07SpeakerWell, I mean, I can remember at Legends where we would get so fucking high on that Afghan hubbly bubbly smoking, you know, full melt clear dome, but I could still walk.

4:23BubblemanRight. It's true. It's true. I could still walk. That's true. The only time my walking was ever affected was the first time I ever smoked at your house. And I could still walk, although it was a lot like John Cleese and the funny walk Monty Python clip. I was still doing it. Not being able to walk is a serious level of highness that, uh, I think I've only really experienced on psychedelics or maybe eating large doses.

4:50SpeakerWhen I've seen it more is when you orally eat several grams of THC. That will get you to that point also.

5:00Etienne FontanSo was it an immediate peak? Did it come on gradually when you came down? Was it a come down gradually?

5:07SpeakerIt was more of a creep. It was more of a creeper. And I'm not sure about when it actually left because I was smoking. By then I was smoking hits that was half THC and half THCP. But it was high enough that the next day I didn't want to smoke it.

5:30Etienne FontanDid Mrs. try it to also gauge her or just you alone?

5:33SpeakerYeah, right. I tried everything I could to persuade her to take it, but she was too smart for me.

5:43BubblemanShe knows you like the back of her hand, dude. What are you talking about? You're not going to persuade her to get lit on THCP. That's insane.

5:53Etienne FontanBut I'll come over and hit some. I was about to say, if she's not, you know, I'm more than happy to volunteer myself to, you know, experiment. It's serious. It's only scientific experimentation, ladies and gentlemen. Strictly.

6:06SpeakerYeah. An interesting way to try it might be because it has no terpenes and it has no other cannabinoids. So it's pretty, you know...

6:23SpeakerIt doesn't have individuality, you know, the way we enjoy with cannabis products. But for example, let's say you were going to roll a joint and you smeared some of this on a cigarette paper before you rolled it. I bet you anything that would instantly make the strongest joint you've ever smoked and it would taste good.

6:47Etienne FontanWould you like do like a thin line with a pen on the paper or would you just spot dab it on the paper?

6:56SpeakerWhatever somebody enjoys doing is what I would do.

7:00Etienne FontanBut a thin line would actually work, right?

7:03SpeakerI never smoked marijuana, as you know, so I'm merely speaking theoretically here, you know.

7:13BubblemanTheoretically, I've been waiting to hear someone puffing on this THCP for a while. So, Sam, it's not the stuff you want to be taking to concerts and putting in joints and passing over.

7:28SpeakerI don't think so, because I think if you passed it to somebody who is a naive user, it might be too much for, you know, it'll give them, you know, a bad trip on marijuana.

7:42Etienne FontanSo it would be like just a straight THC high, just constant, consistent elevation. As you said, since it was a creeper, that would definitely be something not comfortable for a neophyte user for sure, because they want to feel they've arrived at an area and not... The people that I've been around that I've gotten too high, that was their explanation was like, I keep getting high. I keep getting higher.

8:06Etienne FontanIt won't stop getting high.

8:08SpeakerYou see it even more commonly at Gen with oral, when people eat hash cookies and they eat one or two and they're not getting that zone, so they eat a couple more and then the first ones start coming on.

8:23Etienne FontanAnd then time stops.

8:30SpeakerBut I would like to see a variety of cannabis that was high in THCP. So with breeding, if possible, because I don't know how THC is created. In other words, is there a THCP synthase? Is it a different feedstock that's going in and therefore the THC? Is it, in other words, If you look at the CBD synthase, it produces CBD, but it also produces about a 20 to 1 ratio of THC along with the CBD.

9:11SpeakerSo maybe this is also being produced by one of the other synthases. I just don't know.

9:18Etienne FontanWhere did you extract, is there a particular genetic you extracted this from, or is this just a culmination of things that you extracted?

9:27SpeakerI'll explain that to you later. I don't want to do it in public.

9:31Etienne FontanUnderstood. Thank you kindly. Appreciate it. You mystery scientists, good luck with that.

9:38Collin PalmerI think the last time I was too high was when I spent time with you, Marcus, in Amsterdam, and we were puffing super heavy With some as some as some as a flower and then some hash. And I remember walking around in Amsterdam in a circle and then like finally like walking past the group that was in in in the party with us. And they're like, Colin, I'm like, hey, they're like, I'm just trying to go home.

10:07Collin PalmerThey're like, dude, you left like two hours ago to go home. And I was just like walking in the circle. And, and I just, until they said something to me, it didn't even register. I was just like five and enjoying the city, enjoying night, you know?

10:22Etienne FontanOne of the highest.

10:24Collin Palmer10 years ago, 12, 15, maybe. Yeah. 15 years ago.

10:28Etienne FontanOne of the highest I remember was actually Sam. I was in Amsterdam visiting Positronix. You were visiting with old Ed and Bernard was there. Todd was there. This is what, 96? And you walked in with this black glass chunk, Sam, and You clicked off a piece and the sound of the click made me go, what the hell? And you passed it to Ed and Ed packed a pipe and passed it around.

11:00Etienne FontanAnd my eyes rolled back in the back of my head and Next thing I know, I was standing over by, remember the mother plants with the George Washington picture inside? I was standing there and my wife came over to me and was like, ATN, are you okay? And I was like, I don't know where I am. So that's one of the earliest, most highest I've ever been.

11:24SpeakerCredit Sam. I say I'm not guilty.

11:37Etienne FontanYou technically were. You were completely not guilty. I'm the one who inhaled it and put it into my lungs. The next thing I know, I don't remember. So, you know, it was completely my fault. But thank you for assisting in my faultness.

11:55Etienne FontanSo the THCP, are you putting it straight on to flour or are you just dabbing it?

12:01SpeakerI'm putting it right into one of, you know, this pipe I always smoke.

12:10Etienne FontanThat's a Swiss perk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:13SpeakerYeah. Drizzler, I think they call it.

12:18BubblemanNo, it's Dizzle. Nate Dizzle is the guy.

12:21SpeakerThat's what I said, Drizzler.

12:24BubblemanYeah, without the R, you fucking THC peer. You're like, that's like when I talk to my friends, I'm like, it's trichomes. Yeah, I know, I said trichomes. No, no, no, trichomes. I know, I said it, trichomes.

12:37Etienne FontanWhatever. Whatever. Yeah, yeah, I catch that all the time from people.

12:41BubblemanWhat strand is that trichromes?

12:46Etienne FontanYeah, but how much...

12:47BubblemanDoes that trichromes have the CBDs?

12:49Etienne FontanHow many CBDs are in there?

12:53SpeakerNone, zero. In the THCP, there's no CBD.

13:04Etienne FontanI wonder what you would octane that at, 99.999% THC. Yeah, no, it's 99.4% THCP.

13:14SpeakerOh, so it's full of contaminants. Yeah, mostly lead and zinc and gold and all those heavy metals.

13:32Etienne FontanSo there's a little bit of Judas Priest, a little bit of Iron Maiden in there. Is that what you're saying?

13:36SpeakerAbsolutely.

13:37BubblemanWhat are you guys puffing on? I'm puffing on Johnny B's Medi Kush, a little foam out that he gifted me, some 90 micron. Very nice. Very melty.

13:51Etienne FontanI'm puffing on some creme brulee from Papa and Barkley. It's a rosin. Oh, wow. Nice color.

14:00SpeakerI got a little New York City garlic. I left this out last night, so it got a little, you know, starting to go. Nice jar. Yeah, a little bit, but it looks nice. There's the THCP. That shit looks nice. It looks really nice, dude. How much is that, Sam? Like, is that just one gram? Yeah, it's a gram and it's like really thick honey oil. In other words, if you tilt it, it will eventually almost pour.

14:32Etienne FontanBut it's hella sticky, right?

14:36SpeakerOh yeah, it's sticky as fuck. But it's, you know, a little bit more liquidy than shatter.

14:45Etienne FontanHave you experimented with evaporation temperatures? When does it tend to evaporate?

14:50SpeakerNo, I don't know any of that kind of shit yet.

14:54Etienne FontanMy shit's hot. It hit it. I got high. Next thing I know, I'm high.

14:59SpeakerYep. I went right to the, you know, The core of the issue, which is, you know, what is it like compared to pure THC? Because I'm experienced with that. And yeah, it leaves THC in the dust.

15:17BubblemanDo you like that, Sam? Were you like my new best friend when you took a couple of pops?

15:22SpeakerNo, no, no. Because I really like THC with the right suite of terpenes. That is my... Cream de la Cream.

15:39SpeakerSo is THCP, Sam, is it in an effect that is immediate or is it? No, it's not immediate. It's more of a creeper.

15:49BubblemanIt's more of a creeper. Even with the terps added or was this when you just hit it?

15:55SpeakerNo, I'm talking about without the terps, just the THCP itself. Interesting.

16:04BubblemanOh, Dr. Mark is trying to get in right now and it's giving him some weird baloney here. Let me see if he can't get in.

16:11Etienne FontanWell, while waiting and always fun to do it, a interaction part that's fun on YouTube is let's ask everybody who's watching us, what are they smoking right now?

16:22SpeakerWell, no, what we could do is we could play a different game. It's called, let's guess what Dr. Mark is going to say to me as soon as he comes online.

16:33SpeakerHe's going to say that there's lots of people who sell THCP in America, but it's all Delta 8 THC. In other words, they just didn't clean up their THCP the way they claim. And here he is. There's the man. Good morning, Mark. Morning, Doc.

17:01Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, what's up, guys? How are you?

17:04SpeakerHowdy, Mark. I already told him everything you're going to say, so you can just save your breath.

17:13Dr Mark ScialdoneIs it Delta 8 or is it Delta 9?

17:18Etienne FontanIt's Delta 8 and a half. That's what's happening.

17:23Collin PalmerDelta 8 and a half. Delta 10, huh?

17:25SpeakerBecause I also got Delta 8 THC from the same folks.

17:32Collin PalmerThat's so funny. Oh, man. I can hear Kevin.

17:37Etienne FontanI can hear Kevin Sabet now. They're making a new marijuana crack called THCP.

17:46SpeakerWe should tell him it's THCP. And that way he'll go around telling everybody, whatever you do, don't smoke the THCP.

17:55Etienne FontanNo, no, no.

17:57BubblemanDon't touch the pee pee. Did you see? Did you hear anything that was discussed?

18:04Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I did. So it is synthetic, right, Sam? Yes, it is. I knew you was going to go for that one.

18:12SpeakerIt's made synthetically. That's correct.

18:16Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. So how do you compare?

18:19SpeakerIt's actually made from a natural material, but it's synthesized from that. Correct.

18:27Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, everything must be made from a natural material unless we're importing feedstocks from Mars. Everything comes from Earth, right? Even stuff on Earth came from space.

18:44SpeakerYeah, even the stuff from Earth came from other stars. So where does that end? Damn.

18:50BubblemanYeah, why does it end at Mars? Nature isn't on Mars? That's like...

18:57Etienne FontanYeah, fuck Mercury and Venus, you know.

19:01Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, is there life on Mars?

19:05Etienne FontanAsk Mr. Bowie, he would know by now. Right, exactly.

19:10Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so it's synthetic, right? So that means it's made by a chemist in a laboratory, not by a producer of a cultivated plant at a grow, right? So this is a different kind.

19:25SpeakerIt was first isolated from a plant by the Italians. But the yield in a plant is 0.00001. So it's not practical to extract it. Probably for good reason if it's as strong as you say it is.

19:45Dr Mark ScialdoneAm I hung up here?

19:50Etienne FontanNo, we could hear you, Mark. You're just a little chompy, Doc.

19:55Dr Mark ScialdoneMy back?

19:55SpeakerOkay.

19:56Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so it's only there in a trace amount. Well, again, could this be one of the things that leads to the entourage effect, even if it's in trace amounts, but 30 times more active? Thank you for joining us.

20:27Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, perhaps it's part of that uncharacterized fraction of what's in there. And now that there's analytical standards for it, we could actually find it. That doesn't mean that it hasn't hasn't been there all along. It could be there could be that. So this is the the cannabinoid with the C7 side chain. The THC has got a C5 side chain. The C3s are the varins. It would only go to show that there's a distribution of all of those chain lengths in the molecule from C1 all the way up to maybe even C11 and higher.

21:07Dr Mark ScialdoneSo those are going to be higher molecular weight, but they're all going to have kind of like the same cannabinoid structure. They're just going to have different tails. And I guess the thing that I've wondered is, again, you know, The group that looked at making those compounds, Sam, with the two methyl groups, I'm next to the benzene ring. So it's thought of that the that methylene that's next to the benzene ring is an active site for oxidation in the liver.

21:41Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what they did is they put two methyl groups there to block it. And so there's a bunch of compounds. I think the JW compounds or maybe they were H2 compounds. That's what they were. H2 compounds made it Hebrew University. That were C7, but they had two extra methyl groups right next to the benzene ring to block metabolic oxidation at that benzylic position. So I always thought that that was interesting that this is just sort of like the linear version of a C7 versus kind of like C7 in a sort of different isomeric form.

22:16Dr Mark ScialdoneI guess the other thing that you have to think about is again, the enantiomeric purity Thank you for joining us today.

22:44Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd that's a difficult reaction. And it's difficult to make that diol. So these, I hope that what you're smoking here comes from the laboratory of experienced chemists, because not only to make that reaction work well, so the product is clean, the starting material is a little bit of a challenge. You don't just snap your fingers and get it. You do derive it from limonene. But it's a diol that's derived from limonene, and it uses some... Oh, there's an oxidation in there.

23:16Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know if it's peracetic acid or hydrogen peroxide, but something that can go boom in that crack.

23:22SpeakerWhen I tried to get this a couple months ago, I couldn't because they hadn't yet successfully separated the... So basically what you're saying ladies and gentlemen is you're hearing Dr. Mark tell you is don't try this at home.

23:53Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, and the people who are making this are in pharmaceutical laboratories doing preparative chromatographic separations that you need $100,000 equipment and really highly trained staff. I can just imagine because I know the people that are over there across the pond who Sam's getting this from.

24:13SpeakerI hope again, yeah, there's a good- You gotta remember too that, gee whiz, it was a couple months ago, Max Monrose said he had THCP. Remember that, Marcus?

24:30BubblemanYes, vaguely I do. Sorry, I was reading, I'm trying to- He never showed up with it.

24:36SpeakerOh, he never did? At the time, you, Mark, were worried about- Whether or not it was truly THCP or you wanted to analyze it. And I was in favor of you doing that because I was skeptical also, Mark.

24:54Etienne FontanThat's the first THCP I've ever seen. So I've only heard it as a mythical unicorn. And now I've actually seen the unicorn. It's pretty.

25:06SpeakerYep. And if it was terpene rich with the right terpenes that you like, I bet you it would be unbelievably wonderful.

25:17Etienne FontanI accept that challenge.

25:19SpeakerBecause pure THC is stronger than THC mixed with terpenes. But let me tell you, you don't want to smoke it. You want to smoke the... Thank you.

25:51Etienne FontanYeah, I was talking with Michael Bacchus and he was saying, or maybe I heard it here, about how he was doing modulations with, he was feeding people high THC early in the day and later on he was feeding them low THC, high terps, and they were getting higher. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

26:38SpeakerYou could smoke it and no matter what time of the day you smoked it, no matter what you've been doing, whether you've been up all day or you've just woke up, you would get higher from one big hit on a bong of original haze weed. It always got you higher. There was no ceiling. I'm positive that was strictly the terpenes.

27:04Etienne FontanWhat was that at the gray area? They used to have the one bowl challenge or the one hit challenge. What was that? Where you go?

27:11BubblemanIt sounds like the tri-comb challenge, but that was Adam.

27:15SpeakerThat was Adam at THC.

27:17BubblemanYeah, he did that at the Cannabis Cup. He had the chair set up. I've seen some amazing ones. I've actually got some old ones from the 90s on video of him.

27:27SpeakerHe also made it almost impossible to finish a tri-comb challenge.

27:33Etienne FontanI mean, he couldn't cough.

27:35SpeakerYeah, for a minute. Right.

27:38Etienne FontanFucking enormous. It was enormous.

27:41BubblemanAnd he would hit it. I remember a couple of years. It was out of like three foot glass bong.

27:46Etienne FontanRight. It was a tall piece as well. Right.

27:50BubblemanI got video of the tallest where he had the big chair set up. It was like you got to sit in the chair because the pipe's like five or six feet long. It was unbelievable.

28:00SpeakerHe got all kinds of silly people to do that from, you know, film porn stars to Woody Harrelson. Yeah.

28:08BubblemanNot really much difference between those two, but. Also crazy, Sean.

28:18SpeakerI saw him do that to hundreds of people. And I did it once or twice, but the bowls are too big. I like a big bowl, but not to the point where it makes me uncomfortable.

28:31BubblemanHe actually has fish on there doing it. I think two or three of them did the trichome challenge like when they went there in the late 90s or maybe early 2000s. I can't remember.

28:45Etienne FontanI tried. It failed. Failed hard, but it was a fun fail. True.

28:51BubblemanThat's awesome. I wonder why Johnny B never came in for a visit. It's like a nice day over there.

28:58SpeakerI one time took about a half ounce of dry sift over there. And remember Matt used to work with them? Oh, yeah. Okay. He knocked it over and it fell all over a shag carpet.

29:12Etienne FontanOh, dear God.

29:14SpeakerIs that why he moved away?

29:17BubblemanNo, it's not why he moved away. It's why he should have moved away. He bounced to California to work with Jeff at Aqua Labs.

29:27BubblemanIs that where he ended up? I think so. If my memory serves me correct, I mean, Jeff's probably watching. He can either correct me if I'm wrong or confirm.

29:42BubblemanHash Bean, yeah. Someone's like, it reminds me of Hash Bean doing gauntlets with one of the hundred glass bongs he has. That guy was nuts. The most impressive one I saw Hash Bean do was where he built the little tent that he sat inside and he turned on his volcano until you couldn't see him in this tent anymore. And it was a clear tent. It's pretty wild.

30:06BubblemanMissed that guy. I always had a good time.

30:07SpeakerWas he trying to imitate the Synthians?

30:09BubblemanWhat's that?

30:10SpeakerWas he trying to imitate the Synthians? I mean, honestly, I think he was.

30:16BubblemanYou know Ashwin, right?

30:18SpeakerHe's the kid that... Oh, yeah. Ashwin, he used to light bongs at the Legends. He sure did. I mean, water pipes. Hubbly Bubblies. Hubbly Bubblies. Hubbly Bubblies.

30:30BubblemanDude, I tell you, those Hubbly Bubblies, those are special. Legends needs to get some Hubbly Bubblies. So if you're from Afghanistan, if you have access to Hubbly Bubblies... Legends of Hash needs to have a couple of its own hubbly bubblies for the ritual because wherever legends happens, it needs to have a proper bubbly. Yeah, one year we even set up TVs with old footage, someone's footage from the 70s of like puffing hubbly bubblies in Afghanistan.

31:05BubblemanSo while we're in line in the restaurant, leading up to the hubbly bubbly on the tvs there's like these dudes doing the same thing just in afghanistan puffing these hubbly bubblies and it was a pretty pretty pretty magical experience

31:21SpeakerWhat we should also do is maybe get some sort of a laser sight so that we can see how high the flame shoots up after you take a big draw. So does it shoot up one foot? Does it shoot up two feet? Does it shoot up three feet, four inches?

31:43BubblemanYeah, exactly. If hash bean was hitting it, it was going to hit the full two plus feet. I'll tell you that.

31:49SpeakerYeah, well, I used to watch the flame from the Hoverly Bubbly and try to estimate how many grams of hash was in that flame.

31:59BubblemanOh, my God. Good times. Very good times. I'm just trying to keep up with the chat.

32:11SpeakerThere's also, I'm supposed to, in the next month or so, get THC-B, which is another isomer of THC, but it is weaker. It's only supposed to be about 25% as strong as THC.

32:37Dr Mark ScialdoneTHC-B?

32:39SpeakerNo, THC, B as in baby. B as in baby, ah, beta.

32:48Dr Mark ScialdoneGot it. That's the C6, is that right?

32:53SpeakerI believe so, yes. It was also discovered by the Italian group.

33:00Etienne FontanThat found the THCP.

33:02SpeakerYes, also, yes. I think they even found the B first, I forget.

33:13Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd here's to our Italian brethren.

33:15BubblemanYeah, the Italians always popping up, you know, like for a country that's been so harsh against herb for so long. I'm telling you, it's not like the most herb-friendly country, or at least it was.

33:27SpeakerWell, but they always had a very large cannabis industry for hemp. They had the finest quality hemp in Europe, and then after they sort of, the industry died down in Italy, the French sort of took it over, but they were really producing seeds more than, the French weren't mass-producing fiber.

33:54Etienne FontanYeah, yeah, it was the Italians that made that Gardella machinery that was, it would take it straight off the, the take off the core and you'd be left with wet green fiber hanging straight. I mean, it's pretty amazing stuff back in this is the early to mid 90s. So I don't even know if they're still around, but they made some of the finest decorticators and because it was John Greenewald, John Greenewald, John Greenewald,

34:34Etienne FontanYeah, it had a better golden color than what we would get in Hungary and Romania and the Czech Republic.

34:39SpeakerYeah, because out there it's field redded and it lays in the field and molds get on it and it turns gray.

34:48Etienne FontanWell, we actually water redded ours. But yeah, a lot of the Polish definitely came out grayer because they were field redding it. And that's just an actual bacteria eating the lignin people. That's what tends to cause it to go that gray color. Chris Brown, In the field, whereas we would take these large cement baths and submerge our hemp in it so that the lignin and the natural bacteria would eat at the lignin and then you would able to just peel it right off the core, whereas that Gardella machinery did that right out of the field, you know right into a truck so.

35:23Etienne FontanIt saved time, money, expense because the labor of moving all that hemp to those water, you know, submersion points, and then the labor of pulling that off, et cetera. I mean, one machine can do that compared to how many people.

35:38SpeakerAnd the Italians used to ponder their hemp too. And the Hungarians also, they had all of these farms fairly near the river and then the river would divert a little bit of water to the redding ponds and then they would flush it out with new water and do it again and again and again and again.

36:09Etienne FontanOkay. Just a minor hiccup there.

36:14BubblemanNo, I got bounced and I'm recording it so I can upload it to the podcast afterwards. And I guess now that I got bounced, it'll be two separate episodes or at least part one and part two. Recording in process. Imagine hearing that 25 years ago.

36:31Etienne FontanWhat? Oh, everybody would have shut off. You'd be like, what happened to that show? I don't know. All of a sudden this thing says recording and everybody turned off and ran away.

36:39Dr Mark ScialdoneThat happened all the time at the Dead Show. Ooh.

36:43Etienne FontanI'll call you from a payphone and let you know what happened.

36:46BubblemanHey, that must have been what was keeping Alice and John out, or they just literally just came in at that exact time. But yeah, I think my computer was jacked up. Welcome, both of you.

36:56SpeakerMorning, everyone.

37:01Johnny BMorning.

37:02SpeakerI miss you all. I haven't been here in a while. Yeah, it's good to see you, Alice. How are you? I'm good. Good to see you all, too. Yeah.

37:13BubblemanThere's a question for Sam. One question. Does he feel there is one mother variety to all cannabis or what is his view on how it evolved? I feel it was one variety that migrated from a central... Sam?

37:34SpeakerI'm not sure. If he's speaking of particular reference like the Dr. John McPartland reference where he says it originated in Tibet 3 million years ago, But I honestly do not know because the oldest cannabis remains they've found are just tens of thousands of years old. In other words, they don't have any seeds or pollen or fiber or stalks or flowers, anything that's older than tens of thousands of years.

38:06SpeakerSo I really don't know. I'm very, very curious. And I can speculate, but that's all it is, just speculation.

38:17Etienne FontanYeah, a lot of us have speculated it possibly goes back to Gondwana land when it was one landmass, but we can't find any, you know, in certain, as you know, certain continents just never had it, you know.

38:30SpeakerYeah, for example, there is no cannabis remains in America older than 500 years pre-Columbian. There's no pollen, no seeds, no fiber, no flowers. There is none. In the Americas, North or South America.

38:52BubblemanThat's crazy. Is this like John McPartland's work?

38:56SpeakerJohn McPartland did the Tibetan where he says that evidence steers him towards Tibetan plateau 3 million years ago, but he does not have any remains that are even 50,000 years old.

39:13Etienne FontanIt's a theory. There's no concrete proof.

39:16SpeakerCorrect. Absolutely correct. And I like John a lot. I like his work. But all it is is a theory at this point.

39:26BubblemanIs that basically what we saw in Leiden that he presented with all the pollen?

39:30SpeakerThat is the same paper that where I asked him some difficult questions afterwards, basically where he admitted that there were no physical remains that were 3 million years old or even 30 or even 50,000 years old in Tibet.

39:49Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's pretty interesting. Hey, Mark, if you'd like to invite John on to church, I'm working with him on a current project, so I've been in touch with him lately.

40:02BubblemanYeah, of course, anytime.

40:04Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so let's talk about that and just give him some advance notice because he does have a medical practice and is often committed to seeing patients.

40:15BubblemanLike more than an hour?

40:17Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, and well, on Sunday, I'm sure he's not seeing patients. So yeah, let's try to set him up to come on, Asher.

40:24SpeakerNo, you're wrong. He has been working on Sundays. He's been helping with COVID doctoring in Vermont.

40:33BubblemanYeah. Crazy time. Anyway. Awesome. Thank you, Dr. Mark. I'll definitely pick you up on that. Do it up.

40:50Dr Mark ScialdoneAwkward silence. I'm going to have to bounce here in just a little bit because we're on our way up to New York. The Feast of San Gennaro, which is one of the great Italian festivals that happens in lower Manhattan, is happening this afternoon. And so we're going to go up there with my daughter. So happy.

41:11SpeakerYou can be jealous, Mark.

41:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, happy Hush Church. I'll have a sausage, peppers, and onions for you.

41:19SpeakerYeah, please do. One topic I kind of wanted to touch on is that's kind of been on my radar for the past few weeks. I've been working with Kevin McKernan over at Medicinal Genomics, too. I think it should be known that we, out of the 12 samples that we sent in, eight of them hit hot for HLVD.

41:51SpeakerAll of these are really well-known varieties that a lot of people are growing. And I know other people have these same cuts from the same exact nursery. So we're really trying to find more information about the RNA and just better understand what do we do as cultivators and as horticulturists and agriculturists to really work together and bring everyone's minds together to find a way To not only rid the plant of this thyroid, but to better understand how this is happening and how it's being passed along.

42:26SpeakerSo we're in the midst of testing everything from water to see if water is a carrier. Let's say you're using a cloner and you're putting a clone in with other several hundred other other varietals and you're looking to go into production with that. How is that being passed along? At what stage is it being passed along and how to So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

43:03SpeakerBecause I think it's a big conversation that is a silent, it's a silent killer to a lot of varieties and a lot of people that don't know they have it. You can do simple things like flame torch your cutting tools between every plant piece that you cut. And you can use, instead of a big bucket of water, you could use little, tiny, tall, skinny tools Thank you.

43:33SpeakerThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

44:00SpeakerSo we really need to better understand what's happening, how this is happening. And I know that these clones are in other people's hands. Like I know other farms that are growing these exact plants. They just don't know it. It's really- Have they expressed the problem? I don't believe so. We believe that it's highly likely that it's really hard to trigger these responses. I think that things like Fusarium and other things like that that are coming into play actually trigger the plant's immune response to show more of these traits.

44:44SpeakerAgain, we're really far off in terms of factual evidence here. But we really need to understand and have this dialogue because it's it's that's alarming to me. These are these are really well-known varieties. I'm going to I'm not even going to talk about what varieties they are, but they are really well-known varieties that a lot of people love and cherish. And yeah, we just we really need to come together as a community and try to figure this out.

45:10SpeakerSo I know there's there's things like chemotherapy. There is there's light therapy. There's there's some TC, you know, Aaron Ward- That we can do. But again, there's no real guidance as a community that I've seen to date, unless someone here on this panel, and that's why I'm bringing it up, has any information to share. I know Kevin McKernan and myself are really, over this next week, we're going to be doing some Some other types of tests.

45:36SpeakerI'm going to retest those same moms, take cuts from different parts of those plants, and try to zone the actual mom into specific zones so we can see if, hey, maybe the left side of the plant wasn't infected, but the right side was. These are things that, because it's a virus, these are all possibilities. Well, you know who's done a lot of work with this is Sagra.

46:07SpeakerRight. They say they can successfully clean up that virus from plants. They can identify it, then clean it up, then guarantee it's eliminated.

46:22Johnny BWell, there's a place here in Abbotsford, and as we're talking about this, we have mother houses and places that I'm in the midst of going through. A place was destroyed two days ago when everything was tested positive for this virus. I've seen it. We've been dealing with it. It's rapidly going through the West Coast here. These strains, you know, I don't want to name, but I know the strains that are effective.

46:43Johnny BThey're coming up from the U.S. They fit houses up here. It's actually being transported through thrips too. So if you've got thrips and different bugs and you've got the strain, you've got a problem because it went through one thing, through another, through thrips. So we're having it tested here in the Fraser Valley. I'm actually having my strain tested because I actually have something that might have passed on to me, which I talked to Mark the other day about talking with Segra.

47:06Johnny BBecause this is a major problem. It's a major virus that's being passed throughout the community. And it's also coming in seed. It's also coming from cutting. So they're passing their breeding with it. And these seeds are being popped. And we're seeing seeds being popped that have no resin. I'm in the midst of popping one right now. Four weeks in, three of them are showing nothing but traits.

47:25Johnny BThe fourth one I took out of my room is sitting outside. It's got nothing. It looks like cabbage. And that would be our cookies and cream purple punch cross GMO. And I mean, I'm identifying it. I'm seeing it right now. It is a, it is, it's real guys. And it's a, it's a, it's sanitizing things. We have scissors attached to every mother. You only use that scissor to that mother.

47:48Johnny BNothing changes. You're talking about water. We never talked about water. That's a major I'm looking at right now. Cause with the water staying the same, So when I went through one place right now and all seven ones went through, so it infected one mother house. So now we've got a hole out here. Everybody's kind of like freaking out right now. As you're talking about this, we're right smack in the middle of this.

48:08SpeakerAnd I know of 27 viruses. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

48:38SpeakerBut yeah, it's, I'd say of these 27, about half of them can be transmitted by clones, by seeds, by pollen. So yeah, once something spreads, it's a bitch to get rid of it. Yeah, we tested for tobacco streak, tobacco ring spot, hops mosaic, arabus mosaic, and cucumber mosaic, and none of those hit. So, you know, we did do a spread. But like you, you know, someone mentioned... Was the test that you used...

49:26SpeakerSpecifically for cannabis, or was it just a general test for the industry, for the vegetable industry or something? So Kevin, I believe uses QPCR to do this. Medicinal Genomics carried out the testing. I didn't personally do the testing, but I contributed the samples. Well, I'm pretty sure he's testing specifically for cannabis viruses and not just the virus in general, because there are test kits for the virus in general, which aren't as good when you test cannabis with it.

50:04SpeakerI see. Yeah. So I would imagine Kevin's got, I mean, his array in his lab is really impressive. He has all the right instrumentation to get the job done. And he has We have ample space there and a great team. And we're also going to be sequencing all these varieties and sequencing the whole genome just because I think it would be great to understand if this is also affecting the genome and what type of expressions that are coming off of that.

50:32SpeakerSo it'd be really interesting just to tie all these things together, have some dialogue, provide some guidance for the community, and better understand the things that we don't understand It was extremely alarming. I called him immediately when I started seeing these traits from these new things that were sent to me, or we acquired, I should say. Well, that's on the negative side. On the positive side is, in the last three months, they have published several papers.

50:59SpeakerOne is on several genes which are resistant. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

51:34SpeakerWell, that's interesting you bring that up because this is exactly what Kevin and I were talking about is like the gene response, you know, and some of these varieties, you know, some of them are getting PM that were, quite frankly, resistant to them all along for, I don't know, I mean, I'd grown some of these for around 10 years and I'd never seen that type of response from these cultivars.

51:57SpeakerSo it's really all these things and all this stuff is tied together. I do believe that. We just, again, we don't really know how Aaron Wendel, MD, Where it's where these things are crossing, you know, touching each other and they're getting it or it's it is the scissors. It is an open wound or not. Aaron Wendel, MD, Just so much to understand. So I just wanted to bring it up because it does affect resin production.

52:17SpeakerIt does affect our ability to to Aaron Wendel, MD, To work with these chemicals and post processing so You know, I just want to try to bring it up and just have good dialogue on it.

52:29Johnny BI'm going to say there's lots of information on it right now. Hops, latent thyroid, warning shots, the Canadian cannabis industry, some new websites coming out right now, how it was infected, where it came from out of California, saying it might have came from hemp. I've done a lot of research on the papers I was just talking about. I gave to a friend yesterday, but definitely it's it's kind of like it's after the

52:55SpeakerThey talk about that it was first discovered by Dark Heart Nursery in Northern California, but I had read about the exact same virus in hop fields in Poland more than seven years earlier.

53:10Johnny BThere you go. See, that's where we've got to really trace it back to. It's interesting finding out more about this disease because we haven't really looking at it. And like you were saying, it shows up on one side of the plant and it's just like one side is infected. But what we understand, it's kind of like it's in the DNA, it's in the blood. If that one part is infected, the whole plant's infected.

53:29Johnny BThere's a lot of people been trying to pass on cuttings. Okay, take this cut and save it for me. Well, that's how it really screwed this industry right now because that's what's been happening. Everybody's been packing around those Macklin cuts and all of these Skittles and all of these things. I'm saying these names because it's real, guys. These strains have this virus. They have the disease. It's there.

53:48Johnny BI mean, and it's being passed through, like I said, you get through thrips, through cuttings, through pinching. You pinch one strain, you go to another, and you're passing that along. It's dangerous as hell. Thank you for joining us today.

54:23SpeakerBut what what Sagra does is they outgrow it. So they grow it in vitro and it grows. They take the tip of the tip of the tip and it's grows faster than the virus spreads in the plant. So therefore you get if you do that a few times in a row, you get a clean piece eventually.

54:46Johnny BNow I know why. Thank you for explaining that to me, Sam. I was wondering how they would do that, but that would explain it. That's really cool to understand that.

54:56BubblemanHey, welcome to Wade. Wook Sauce is also in the house.

55:02SpeakerHow's it going, guys? What's up? How's it going?

55:05BubblemanIt's going pretty good. Started the morning off with Sam holding up some THCP, telling us it was so strong he couldn't walk after he dabbed a couple of times. Wow. So that was an interesting start to the day. Probably, probably not going to be getting any THCP anytime soon. Yeah, that's just the regular dabs.

55:30BubblemanThat sounds intense. Just regular dabs are strong enough, I think. Imagine the booth at like a cannabis cup, and it just said, so you think you can dab? And you're just like, you're just scooping out big quarter gram dabs of the THCP for these young bucks that are like, hell yeah, I can dab.

55:48SpeakerI can dab like two grams at a time. Well, it's easy to dab, but the trouble is what's going to happen to you 10, 15 minutes later. It's easy to get it down. I, I, I smoked two or three of them. Wham, bam. Thank you, ma'am. And, you know, wasn't that impressed. And then I started feeling it. Well, maybe they could pair up with a mattress company.

56:15SpeakerSo then there's a couple of beds nearby.

56:17BubblemanA hammock company, maybe?

56:20SpeakerYeah, there we go.

56:24BubblemanYeah. How are you doing, Wade?

56:28SpeakerOh, I'm doing all right. I'm really intrigued at Sam's experience with THCP. We've been reading about it for a while now since it was found in Italy. And this would be the first person I've heard who actually consumed some of it. And meantime, Sam is well known for enjoying heroic doses. So what was it actually like, Sam? Sorry for being late, but I'd love to hear it.

56:57SpeakerYou were a day late and a dollar short. I'm sorry, Wade.

57:04SpeakerIt was very strong. It kind of reminded me more of 11... Thank you for joining us.

57:40SpeakerAnd that's not from the THC. It's from the first pass through the liver and it comes out as 11 hydroxy. And that's what's actually giving you the staggers. It's very similar to the effects of THC, but it's actually stronger than THC by weight. Is it fair to say that you felt it more strongly in your body as versus in your brain? Is that fair? I think that's probably true.

58:09SpeakerI'm not sure if it started that way, but it certainly seemed to end up that way.

58:17SpeakerSo you weren't like going to go for a jog? No, I had no, I had trouble walking from one room to the next.

58:31SpeakerI was afraid I was going to fall over.

58:36BubblemanYeah, one of those THCP accidents.

58:42Dr Mark ScialdoneYes, if you think that this should be a product in an unregulated market sold like Delta 8 and other, you know, THC acetate,

58:52BubblemanI kind of think those should be in a regulated market too.

58:55SpeakerI'm not sure THC acetate is sold in an unregulated market because under the federal law, CSA, THC acetate is a semi-synthetic. It's illegal.

59:15BubblemanSo listen, you having Pinocchio up on the screen there instead of your Dr. Seuss one, is this a metaphor that you're all pulling our legs here today or?

59:25SpeakerNo, it's because I was too stoned before and I didn't even notice.

59:37BubblemanAll right, all right, all right. There he is.

59:42SpeakerI honestly did not even notice.

59:46Dr Mark ScialdoneSee what THCP does to you folks? Stay away from it.

59:51SpeakerIt starts rotting your brain cell by cell.

59:59BubblemanI'll take it. So what's going on in California with Alice and Wook Sauce? You guys are just growing weed and processing weed and smoking weed and making hash and kind of living that life or what?

1:00:14SpeakerGo ahead. This week had, there was Hall of Flowers. It was pretty interesting. It was my first like industry event that was like B2B. So it was pretty interesting to see how the industry became just like any other industry, right? Events were like free samples of everything. High THC strains and people making a trend out of it. Bunch of fun designs of companies that you look, the design is amazing, but once you see the product is, Not that interesting.

1:00:47SpeakerSo it was fun, but fun to see and a bunch of good marketing, like real marketing.

1:00:52BubblemanThere's like all the other products out there. It really looks like a picture.

1:00:59SpeakerSo it was fun. Like I had a good time. It was actually interesting and went one day to it's pretty good to network for the people that are in the regulated businesses. And while we've been We're processing less harvests, cash, but we're taking like a little like road break right now. We just have like some plants outdoors. We're taking like a little indoor break, maybe to the end of the year and see what's up.

1:01:26SpeakerAnd that's it. What about you, Flynn? Yeah. No, I mean, obviously the same as far as all the gardening stuff goes. But yeah, I thought Hall of Flowers was pretty interesting. I definitely see... I don't know, more big money openly coming into the field and spending a lot of money on, you know, marketing and stuff like that, marketing that product. It's definitely getting The race just to get a license and like have stuff on the shelves is getting less and less than the race to like price points and hitting, you know, hitting lower price points and stuff.

1:02:02SpeakerWe've definitely seen like the solventless market change a lot in California in the last like year or so. That's true, it got way bigger. Like there are multiple brands now. Yeah, the popularity has definitely increased. A lot of brands have started moving into the space and putting out very, Consumer friendly products, I will say respectfully. Next year, they will have a state fair in Sacramento for the state of California, and they're going to have cannabis in it for the first time.

1:02:35SpeakerYeah, I saw that actually in the paper.

1:02:40Etienne FontanI'm one of the actual ambassadors for the actual event for it. So we'll be promoting it and making it aware as well as, yeah, there'll be, you'll be able to get the same golden bear that you can get from any other agricultural product at the state fair. It'll be in July of 2022. We have submission information that we'll be letting people know now. It is only open to legal growers and licensed growers at this time.

1:03:09Etienne FontanWe had to start somewhere. So I understand there's a lot of underground growers who definitely probably could throw their hat in the ring quite well. However, it is just open currently to legal markets, so producers.

1:03:24SpeakerAlthough I will be opening up a small legal business and everybody that wants to give me a thousand dollars, I'll be glad to enter yours into the contest because I know yours is best. Love it. Is it going to be just flour or will there be hash as well?

1:03:44Etienne FontanIt's just flower this year. So I think THC and CBD, again, this is the first start of the first, you know, launch in. So it's, you know, we couldn't throw everything in the ring out the gate. However, I would anticipate since the foot is in the door, we're going to see some progressions. But, you know, stay tuned. We'll see how it goes. Again, it's the first time.

1:04:07Etienne FontanAnd it's as first that I'm aware of, it's the first state to actually include cannabis worldwide. All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started.

1:04:18SpeakerWe're going to go ahead and get started.

1:04:33Etienne FontanI wouldn't say I am unsure. I have been to the California State Fair and they usually show the first, second and third, you know, so the ribbon placers and then a couple of the others. It's never been done before. So I'm unsure of the judging when it's going to take place, how it is going to be judged, et cetera, at this time. So it is still information we are gathering.

1:04:58Etienne FontanBut as ambassadors, we're just initially promoting the event. And making people aware of these submittal times and information so that if they want to get involved, they know where to come play.

1:05:12SpeakerI wonder, are they going to allow cannabis retailers to have booths there, I guess, like they would at a cannabis event? And will it be like a permitted event where they could sell? Not sure. If they don't the first year, they will the second year because they're going to realize how much money there is that advertisers are willing to pay. The farmer table.

1:05:35Etienne FontanSo here it is. I have my fact sheet up. So who can enter? The competition is open to all licensed California cultivators. Divisions and categories align with the Department of Cannabis Control's license types to ensure proper representation and support of California's legalized market. SC Labs will be doing the testing. Entrants will be classified in three divisions according to their grow light source, outdoor, mixed light, and indoor.

1:06:05Etienne FontanCultivators can submit multiple strains in multiple divisions. Each division will have awards For seven cannabis compound categories, including two primary cannabinoids, THC and CBD, and five terpenes, limonene, pinene, myrcene, caryophyllene, and terpenylene. Interesting. And then the awards breakdown. Let's see. The competition will be scored objectively through science-based analysis performed by one of California's premier cannabis and hemp testing labs, SC Labs. They will provide all entrants with the required certificate of analysis, as well as the proprietary Phytofax chemometric report that will quantify all the unique compounds of the submission to determine the award-winning flower.

1:06:54Etienne FontanEntrants are vying for 77 awards for cannabis flower, including medals for bronze, silver, and gold in each division and category. Double gold will be awarded to those who place gold in two or more categories. Seven of the coveted Best of California Golden Bear trophies will be given to the best all around in each category, regardless of division. So submissions will open in November. Submissions will close in March of 22.

1:07:25Etienne FontanNotified winners in May of 22. There will be a promotional tour in June and then the California State Fair Award celebration. So that is the fact sheet we've been provided this far.

1:07:41SpeakerDoes it say how they're actually judged by smoking, by analysis or?

1:07:47Etienne FontanThe testing is one. It is not stated if smoking will be part of it. I think it will most likely be by testing analysis at this time. I could be wrong. I'm open to knowing more because I am an Emerald Cup judge. So I'm curious to know where it's going to go. But as ambassadors, this is what we've been tasked with at this time.

1:08:10SpeakerI understand and we both know because we've both seen the results of many analysis tests of cups and the one that's the highest in THC or the one that looks the best isn't necessarily the one that people think is the best.

1:08:30Etienne FontanCorrect. And I would anticipate like with since this is the first time in a new competition that, you know, these types of discussions will be fruitful in that as things proceed forward. Because again, since it is new, as we saw with the Emerald Cup, it changed over time as things progressed. And I would anticipate this potentiality because of that specific connotation that you stated, Sam, and how even though it looks good and looks as sexy as it doesn't mean it is the best cannabis.

1:09:04Etienne FontanBut of course, that's still individually subjective.

1:09:08SpeakerAnd individuals as a group will tend to agree, but they all have their own preferences. Some like it with CBD, some like it with particular terpene sweets. And if that's your favorite, that's your favorite. It's not a matter of right or wrong. It's that you just like something different.

1:09:30Etienne FontanSo, you know, it's this is the guide point. So other state fairs, you know, we've got, you know, quite a few, what, 18 legal states now. So including Washington, D.C., but D.C. doesn't have its own fair because it's not a state. But every state I've been to, That has a state fair. And some are definitely smaller than others. Some are larger. California's has its own permanent pavilion with display areas in multiple buildings.

1:09:59Etienne FontanSo I'm not even sure. It'll be in the agricultural section most likely. In the past, I've seen photos and pictures of plants in the art department. So I'm very interested to see what the display area will look like. As well as what we'll be able to see as well as, you know, will it be the posting of the results with the flowers, et cetera, you know, for people to see, to get a better understanding about how it is technically judged.

1:10:29SpeakerI don't think I've even ever been to the state fair grounds in Sacramento. You have.

1:10:36Etienne FontanWell, come on down in 2022 to the California State Fair and come see the cannabis.

1:10:44SpeakerI've been to some of the other counties, but not the state fair. I've been to like the Santa Cruz County Fair and some of the other ones.

1:10:54Etienne FontanYeah, I wonder if it, you know, if it's going to be a county-wide situation as well so that, you know, some of the counties can recognize not the state fair is because usually it's a secession. You get the local, then the county, then the regional, and then the state. So it's be interesting to see as things progress as well since this is starting at this starting point.

1:11:15SpeakerHumboldt County Fair is going to be a good one then. Once they allow that. That's going to be the real thing. Yes. Let me tell you.

1:11:23Etienne FontanNo, Mendocino too.

1:11:24SpeakerYou should do the Emerald Triangle.

1:11:29Etienne FontanTrinity, not so much, sorry. There's just not much business or, I mean, legal retails. It's just where location is, unfortunately, compared to Humboldt and Mendocino, or correct me if I'm wrong.

1:11:43SpeakerNo, I'd agree.

1:11:47SpeakerI'd agree. What are you smoking on, John?

1:11:52BubblemanDerbs. I'll go out on a limb and say he's smoking on this. Ooh, that looks good.

1:12:04SpeakerWhat's that?

1:12:06BubblemanThat is Johnny B's Medi Kush.

1:12:12SpeakerOoh, that looks nice.

1:12:16BubblemanI've been puffing it. It's been pretty darn nice. On point with everything else.

1:12:22Johnny BI was looking for my microphone and it was like this small in the corner. And I was like, Mark, I was smoking it. The Medico, same thing, but it's the pocket tech. So I've been smoking a lot of this, but if I put it in my pocket, it turns so creamy. It's so tasty. But definitely, it's great to see everybody here today. Oh, the 90U. I mean, this is beautiful.

1:12:47Johnny BI'm so happy with it.

1:12:49BubblemanWe've forever changed to 73, I'll tell you that much. Oh, yeah.

1:12:54Johnny BIt's just beautiful. And now, of course, Van Spam.

1:12:58Collin PalmerYou can't even see it.

1:13:00Johnny BMaking some amazing resin. Check out this. This is like some Chemdog with some GMO. And this is fire. It is so fire. Oh, I mean, it's, I love the chem. And then the creme brulee you were just talking about, I actually saw the mom the other day. I want to get cuttings from that. And I love the chem. So I can't wait to see how that's going to run.

1:13:25Johnny BAnd of course, going to have to get it tested first for that virus.

1:13:29SpeakerDamn it. It's got the virus. Come on. Let's be honest.

1:13:33Johnny BProbably does. That's why it's sitting there. You know what? All of a sudden, this mom out of nowhere goes, you want this? We're like, well, we'll put it over here for a minute. And Now we have to go and have it taken a better look at, right?

1:13:46Johnny BDangerous. Well, I'm going to enjoy this dab with you guys. Instead of hearing the torch, I'm going to mute myself.

1:14:00BubblemanWell, I, for one, am excited for shoulder season, waiting for snowboarding season to begin in November. Shoulder season here on the West Coast is mushroom foraging season. So we get the next like multiple months to go and pick morels and turkey tails, lobsters, cauliflower mushrooms, reishis and red conchs and just all sorts of amazing chanterelles. We've got a lot of tasty edible mushrooms, but then we also have, you know, very soon we'll start seeing cyanescens and stunsies and baocystins and azorescens and semelanciatas, all like growing in and around my neighborhood, which is just, uh, Every year in shoulder season, and I remember when I didn't know about mushrooms, how I used to be bummed out about shoulder season because it's just rain.

1:14:55BubblemanAnd it's like, oh, we just had an amazing summer, but the rain hasn't turned into snow yet. This is just go into the forest and have a beautiful hike. And it was always fresh and whatnot. But then I discovered the mushroom. And that really changed everything for me.

1:15:09SpeakerAnd what taste do you like the best for mushrooms?

1:15:14BubblemanI like chanterelles really a lot. I love chanterelles for sure. We have a variety of them, like different ones, like the golden foots and the yellows and There's like three or four different chanterelles. I like the little golden foot ones. They're not very big, but I made a couple of soups last year with those ones and they were spectacular. I really like the texture of the cauliflower mushroom.

1:15:36BubblemanIt's beautiful for pasta. It just goes real nice with even a white or a red sauce and some nice pasta. So I'm stoked on getting out there soon and picking even porcinis right now. People are picking right now. Um, Bolettes, Admiral Bolettes, uh, growing, you know, popping out right now. So, and not just in the Pacific Northwest for that matter, wherever you are, you can look into your amateur mycology groups that are in and around your cities.

1:16:07BubblemanAnd there's people in every city into this stuff. And the mushroom community is very much like the cannabis community in the sense that, uh, it's, it wants you to know the information. It's like, yeah, check this out. Like you got to check this out. It's really good stuff. So that's my little spiel on mushroom picking because I'm super excited about the mushrooms popping out here soon.

1:16:30Johnny BI love the mushroom. It's awesome. I'm going to say one thing. Everybody start with that THTP and how high you get. Since I've lost weight, I am getting slammed. I get so high from doing dabs. Like right now, I just did a dab and I am just, I don't get this high. And lately, wow. I think like TFT, holding in the fat cells, maybe that's a real thing because lately for me, it's been like awesome.

1:16:57Johnny BJust saying.

1:17:00BubblemanThanks for sharing.

1:17:02SpeakerJohnny, that's awesome, man. It's a good way to, you know, express that you're getting healthier. And, you know, congratulations on working at that, man. That's a really, I think everyone, we all need more of that. We need more inspiration to be healthier and eat better and exercise.

1:17:23Johnny BWell, this morning I'm down 64 pounds. I get up and walk every morning, every day. I get up and walk 20 minutes. I do slight stretching. And you know what? It's been fantastic. And then like just having those nano shots in my smoothies for breakfast and really paying attention to my cannabinoid consumption. And it's been, and now, like I say, and when you're talking about taking those, Those higher cheatsies during the day and then in the afternoon at night I've been doing these like CBD balanced 50 50s and I'm definitely getting a lot higher from just a regular dab that I would do two or three of now it's kind of like wow and and I'm just healthier and feeling a lot better with it and thanks Colin I appreciate that and everybody here for you know always educating and telling us more how we feel about every day that's it I'm high

1:18:17BubblemanBe high on a Sunday morning.

1:18:19SpeakerHow's your season going, my friend? It's good to see you and also great to hear you. How's the summer been for you?

1:18:34SpeakerIs that me? Wade. Wade. Oh, I missed it. Hi, Colin. And thanks for the call out. It's been a pretty challenging summer, actually. Pretty vigorous fire season here in California. We had four fires in Nevada County in one month, all of them caused by humans.

1:19:03SpeakerThe me personally, I've been experiencing a lot of turmoil within myself, a lot about All of the effort and years of time I put into trying to create reasonable regulations, both locally and at the state level, and to see how disastrously the legal market is unfolding for the people who have done this work over the years is really... It's hard because I care a lot about cannabis.

1:19:40SpeakerI care a lot about patient access. I care about quality product. And all of those things are not doing very well in the legal California cannabis market these days. And whenever I hear people getting excited about the idea of federal legalization, I just think of how badly California did it and cannot imagine that the feds would do any better at it. So for me, I have a few plants in the garden.

1:20:12SpeakerI'm enjoying how that's going. Just the simplicity of Doing something I love because I love it, not because I'm trying to change the world or even in this case, in my case, trying to find specific versions of cannabis that might be of help to certain families, for example. That work has been taken on by our local cannabis alliance. We've created a donation program that's very closely modeled on what we were doing with Caladrius Network.

1:20:49SpeakerAnd I'm grateful to the legal farmers and manufacturers and distributors and retailers that are involved in that program.

1:21:01SpeakerSo that's a good that's good. But yeah, for me personally, it's been a rough summer between fire and some health challenges of my own. And like I said, what's the growing realization of how badly the California legal scheme is working? Yeah, it's been a rough summer. I mean, I'll just say. The Department of Cannabis Control, which is the new regulatory agency, just published 390 pages of emergency regulations and allowed five days for public comment on them.

1:21:42SpeakerAnd I got a pretty good ways into those pages and found a whole bunch of things.

1:21:52SpeakerYeah, I don't want to go down that hole, but yeah, that's kind of where Wade's at today. So I was really glad to see a last minute call out to do hash church this morning because it's really a joy to see some people I have such deep respect for and how how grateful I am for the opportunity to just hear people who have this plant at heart and And are still trying to change the world.

1:22:25SpeakerSo that's where Wade's at at the moment. Thanks for calling me out, Colin. Cheers. Yeah, man. Well, Wade, I think you have changed the world, quite honestly. Your contributions with your varietals have actually moved the needle. So I think... Michael Morehead, You know, I think we, you know, that that should be known. And if it's not, I see you over there. And I hope you see it too.

1:22:52SpeakerBecause it's, it's, it's very apparent, you know, the contributions real and I think, humbly, you know, Michael Morehead, I hope we all can can help, you know, fall in your footsteps, man. So thanks for for for doing the work.

1:23:09BubblemanYeah, exactly. I agree. Thanks for doing the work, Wade. We, you know, I often think of Forrest as well. Even when I saw you come in today, I was like, oh man, I got to like, I spoke to him a few times on Facebook, but I know he's also had some difficult times and it'd be good to get him on here and maybe just spread the love a little bit because we have, the whole community has a huge, huge respect for both you and Forrest and the things that you've done for catastrophically ill children.

1:23:40BubblemanAnd in, you know, just being kind and being real in an industry that has a whole lot. And I think, you know, when you were talking about how federal legalization and I always have faith in cannabis, we got through prohibition. But now we're getting into a new battle. And this new battle is You know, when you go mainstream, not only are the mainstream people who are going to try and get those paychecks and who mastered those systems, so they'll get themselves into position right away, the key people that you don't want in those positions, that's one part of it.

1:24:14BubblemanBut then you're also expanding and bringing in this whole new group of people that now has changed the face of what makes up the cannabis community. Because it used to be this very small kind of rootsy group, and now it's like, Everyone, it's like, oh, you're all, you're all in the group now. And so I think it's taking time for our subset groups to channel within those groups and to actually find our foundation and be like, you know, because listen, I remember when people were going to prison and I swear there was nothing worse than that, that that was the worst.

1:24:51BubblemanWe all have to agree about that. This sucks and hurts my heart as well. Because it doesn't quite get you the way locking up our friends for life did. That really got under our asses. This is more subdued and more like, no, but you can grow a few plants. Don't worry about it, dude. So I feel you. It's still a battle. But think of the battle we just got through that most of us never thought we were ever going to get through.

1:25:20BubblemanAnd of course, you know, we're in another battle now. And hopefully we, you know, good people can continue to put their intention towards good things, you know, to making things work out in a way that I don't mind if people come up with ways that make this better and make them profit. I just don't want people who are parasitic to suck the life force out of our culture while using terms like we're trying to build a better culture.

1:25:48BubblemanIt's like, we already have a culture. You know, why don't you come in and absorb our culture that the culture actually created itself. And, and I still have faith, you know, I'm in a federal regulated situation and it's, it's been, Pretty intense the last couple of years. It's gone ups and downs and it's been traumatic and it's still pretty rough out there, like being a small fish in a ocean full of giant sharks.

1:26:21BubblemanBut you know what? If it was easy, you know, everyone would be doing it. And I think don't lose faith.

1:26:29SpeakerEternal vigilance is the price of cannabis freedom.

1:26:34BubblemanThere you go. Can't put our feet up.

1:26:40Johnny BI do like about the legalization, what you're just talking about and the federal laws that you're jumping through the hoops and you get into those stages, but we are starting to see some type of standardization when it comes to some of these products that really we've been looking for in the medical aspects. Like I've been talking about these nano shots and some of these drinks that have been really like Thank you.

1:26:59Johnny BThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:27:29Johnny BSomething that I've just, it's awesome to see lately. I'm just so happy about it, to be honest.

1:27:35SpeakerNot me, Johnny. I can honestly say I've been fighting for the last 50 years for THCP.

1:27:45Johnny BI need some of that THCP, by the way.

1:27:46SpeakerAnd it finally, finally, finally came.

1:27:51Etienne FontanBut what you're speaking about, about the cultural separation is something that is an inherent problem we have because, you know, marketers from any other line of reality has created their own cultures in the sense or tried to create them around products, around ideas, whereas The problem they find is that you can't cash in on cannabis culture. It's about being real and marketing and all that isn't about being real.

1:28:19Etienne FontanSo they're trying to impose their wills and ideas on something that they can't even quantify, that they haven't even bothered the time to immerse themselves into quantify. They're coming at it from a product perspective. As opposed to an understanding that a lot of us here risked our lives and our freedoms to try to keep this plant perpetuated against every way, shape, or form. And out of persistence and dogged persistence, we've actually realized these realities, or as I say, I don't like your reality.

1:28:54Etienne FontanI am going to substitute it with my own. We have substituted cannabis into the reality All of the world through hard work, labor, dedication. Brothers and sisters are still going to jail here in America. So the job isn't done here. We don't have federal legalization. But the marketers in these small little 10th Amendment experimental realities where we are are completely off the rails. They don't know what they're doing.

1:29:23Etienne FontanThey're trying to encapsulate something they can't even grasp, and they won't even take the time to understand All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:29:56Etienne FontanAnd it's the same way why, you know, it isn't sexy going around talking about giving free weed to everybody, but we still had to go around and pass SD, you know, laws here in California, 45 to actually 35, pardon me, to actually still be able to give away free cannabis because that isn't and wasn't established. So even though things have changed, we still have to continue to do the change.

1:30:18Etienne FontanBut cannabis culture just needs to continue to just be itself. Fuck all this marketing and all that other bullshit. Just do you. And all the marketing will be continued to be ignored as they try to shift it into, oh, this, that, that way and the other. It's going to be what it's going to be, which is why, you know, the Emerald Cups and all that will continue to exist because the overregulation is a...

1:30:44Etienne FontanA whitewashing of cannabis, whereas the culture still exists. It's still in the traditional market. It's still ongoing. People are still going around with male scales and weighing out eighths and ounces and dealers are still doing well. So, you know, the underground hasn't stopped. It hasn't changed. It's just being marketed differently and terribly and at our expense and at our culture's expense. And the United Nations actually recognizes culture and we're going to be working on cannabis culture as itself, but not this marketed shit that we're being served.

1:31:19Etienne FontanSorry to get off my soapbox.

1:31:25SpeakerAnd besides that, I've already copyrighted cannabis culture, so.

1:31:32BubblemanOh, that was a long lawsuit between the owner of Friendly Stranger, Robin, and Mark Emery from Cannabis Culture. That went on for a long time, that fight over the name Cannabis Culture. Good old cannabis industry, eh?

1:31:49SpeakerWell, I didn't copyright the name. I copyrighted the concept of cannabis culture. Any cannabis culture belongs to me.

1:32:01SpeakerWell, thankfully, that means it's in good hands, Sam. Everyone send all your Bitcoin to Sam. That's right. I'll sell it to you cheap.

1:32:15Etienne FontanOnly one Bitcoin.

1:32:20Etienne FontanCulture coin.

1:32:21SpeakerThere was a time when that was cheap.

1:32:23BubblemanOh, wait, before I forget, can we talk a little bit about how beautiful The dog is that you guys have there?

1:32:32SpeakerOh, yeah, that Australian Shepherd is amazing.

1:32:35BubblemanYeah, that is ridiculous.

1:32:36SpeakerHe just made it from Brazil. It was my dog. I just brought my two dogs from Brazil. I've been two years away from them. It was super hard. But thankfully, we made it. So this is Mookie. Mookie, say hi to them. And he's actually, oh, I'm sorry. There's a smoothie in front of the dog. This is a Shetland Sheepdog. He's not like an Australian Shepherd. So he's this size.

1:33:00SpeakerHe will be this size forever. He has seven years old, actually. Wow. He's unbelievable. He looks happy to be back with you. He is for sure. He's going through some issues like skin issues and stuff, but we're trying to solve it. Dogs with breeds, I don't know. I think that when you breed too much with the dogs, sometimes it's hard. Like the other three dogs we have, they're mutts and not... Mutts?

1:33:26SpeakerIs that how you say it? Yeah. None of them have any issue. Maybe the... Genetic variations and things like this make them like way stronger on life.

1:33:36BubblemanIsn't that interesting that we call them mutts, but then we call the purebreds, which are like, here, get this dog. It's 10 grand. It's like four years later, the thing is like suffering terribly with hip dysplasia. It's just like grinding its hips on. It's like, what the fuck are we doing in life?

1:33:54SpeakerYeah, it is crazy. And can we compare that with cannabis too? With the breeding, people breeding crazy things, or no? What do you think, boys? I don't know. I think Sam probably has more experience than anyone here, but I think when you exhaust lines, bad things can happen if you start selecting unknowingly. Well, cannabis is an out-crosser, which means when you use small population numbers, And you only breed within a given small number of plants that it doesn't do as well.

1:34:35SpeakerFor really vigorous cannabis, you want to out-cross it, cross, you know, tie with Afghan, for example.

1:34:45SpeakerCreate the real muds of the cannabis.

1:34:49BubblemanYeah, there's differences too, right? Because in cannabis, we're looking to breed, you know, cultivars that probably get us very high or have a particular bouquet to them. Not necessarily how they look, whereas dogs were more like, sure, certain dogs were bred to do certain things, but other dogs, like the German Shepherd had a really nice straight back. And then the guy who bred it down, who gave it that super humped out, like, so it just goes down at the back.

1:35:21BubblemanSo the hips kind of go way down. And if you look at old photos of the German Shepherd and what it looks like today, and it's one of the dogs that ends up getting that hip dysplasia, like the worst out of all the breeds, because this guy just thought it looked super cool. Like he was just like, this is the, this, this is how we should breed this.

1:35:38BubblemanAnd I, I think that's kind of a bummer.

1:35:41SpeakerYes, especially because we're dealing with living animals, right? I don't know about you, but my cannabis is living also. I know. It's feeling different than a dog, though. I don't know. I don't eat meat. But I eat salad. I don't mind killing the salad to eat. I don't mind much about the salad. That's because you can't hear their screams. Yeah, I can hear their screams. When I pull up the little carrots or the little baby corns or anything, I hear them screaming like hell, man.

1:36:21SpeakerThat's why I just go murder the animals instead.

1:36:26BubblemanThat was about right. Yeah, you know what? You can get into some pretty trippy philosophies there, like, In regards to how you feel about breeding a plant versus breeding a dog or versus eating an animal versus eating a plant. And I've definitely seen some pretty good arguments on both sides. I say that people should just be themselves and do what they need to do.

1:36:47SpeakerThe only innocents are the airitarians.

1:36:51BubblemanThe airitarians, the breatharians.

1:36:58BubblemanExactly. The breatharians aren't bothering anyone. When they stay at your house, they never eat anything out of your fridge.

1:37:06SpeakerYes, but when they take a breath of air, they might be swallowing a few insects or viruses or something, and that's murder.

1:37:16BubblemanThat's true. That's true. What are you going to do? Probably not too many breatharians out there, though, I'm guessing. They have a short lifespan, I presume.

1:37:25SpeakerIn India, you probably saw Jain temples, and the Jains, the really, really orthodox, devout ones, they sweep the sidewalk before they walk on it to make sure that they don't accidentally step on any ants. Right.

1:37:44BubblemanSweeping ants is okay. Stepping on them is a huge no-no in the culture.

1:37:49SpeakerYes, absolutely. I have a question for you. You know, I've been looking a lot and thinking a lot about mutations in leaf, you know, in the way that leaf leaf structure has kind of formed in the plant morphology. And I was wondering if when things like Australian Bastard and Duckfoot were kind of isolated, you know, historically, we've kind of like we've bred these plants with these five finger, these these these very traditional leaf sets.

1:38:20SpeakerWhy have we not moved away from these in terms of resin production? And do you think that's intentionally something that certain breeders should start looking towards because Let's face it, some of these plant cells and these water leaves are just problematic. So why wouldn't we just start breeding towards better morphology that kind of lends itself towards extraction so you're not defoliating at week 21 and then again going back in and touching?

1:38:49SpeakerI think people are doing both. People are doing it...

1:38:58SpeakerWhat did they call them? There's a whole name of them besides Duckfoot and Australian Bastard. Well, there's like Fern or... Yeah, the one that... Yeah, Humboldt Seed just selling from the breeder guy. Mm-hmm. But I don't see, I don't see any advantage in growing. I don't see any advantage in growing them other than they look trippy.

1:39:37SpeakerNo, I've just never seen like, you know, in terms of population, I've never seen traits in terms of resin production from any of these These types of, you know, morphologies that lend itself to what, you know, we're talking about here in terms of resin. But, you know, it just seems over time, you know, there should be individuals looking at this at a deeper, from a deeper perspective.

1:40:04SpeakerAnd, you know, I know I've been playing around with it for the past couple of years and I've been finding some really interesting things. So I hope others are doing it too.

1:40:16SpeakerI used to be, but I sort of gave up with world phylotoxy and diploid and triploid and things like that. And there were differences, but yeah. The freak show is, I think, really trippy looking, but whether it has any practical application, I'm not so sure. Yeah, no, likewise. I agree with that. But with that, I think there's opportunity for the right person to really work the lines, you know, so.

1:40:59SpeakerTo be honest, I'm more interested in the cannabinoid and terpene contents than anything else. I want lots of particular cannabinoids and terpenes. Right. And so that's exactly what I'm after. However, what I'm trying to illustrate, I guess, is what if we had less biomass around it and it was more focused on the resin rather than Well, you can do that with more of what people call sativa, narrow leaf drug variety.

1:41:35SpeakerYou can do that. But with wide leaf drug varieties like afghans, they often have just as much resin on the leaves as the flowers. So reducing the leaf content isn't going to necessarily increase the resin content. True. Now, from a contamination point of view, just in water hash, that's what I'm, that's really where I'm thinking. You know, the contamination perspective in trying to remove some of that undesirable material.

1:42:12SpeakerMaybe it'd be good for, for, for SIFT. I don't know. You know, I think you're illustrating some really good points, but it's a. Yeah, no, it's definitely something I think about a lot, though. And I appreciate your perspective on it, because it's, as you know, it's, it's just, there's, there's not a lot of people that are publicly talking about this, this type of work.

1:42:36SpeakerI think there's a lot of people doing it now. When we first started on it 20 years ago, there was nobody. But there's a lot of people breeding for cannabinoids and terpenes. The minor cannabinoids are pretty easy to get. CBD, obviously, is easy to get. CBG is easy to get. THCV is fairly easy to get. So CBC, I don't think that's so easy to get, but I bet you can get it.

1:43:07SpeakerYeah, no, it's fair.

1:43:10SpeakerWith everything that's going on in Afghanistan, do you think, Sam, from your perspective, seeing all these changes over the decades that you've seen, do you think cannabis farming will still prevail in that region? I honestly cannot predict what the Taliban is going to do because they've been on both sides of the line of drug dealing and taxing drugs and I mean, they said they were suppressing the opium growing, but they were taxing the cultivators.

1:43:42SpeakerI mean, I don't believe anything they say, and I don't know how anybody can rationally predict what they're actually going to do. Do any of you follow like Baba's work, Baba 87? You all follow him? He is in Afghanistan. And I got actually very worried. I was even talking to Kim and Dem Canole too, because since like, Taliban got full on power in power. He actually hasn't posted anything on Instagram and haven't said anything.

1:44:12SpeakerBut this last week he answered for the first time. So I don't know if anyone here is connected with him, but it looks like he's still here in the world with us and feel like they're watching, right? Social media. So he didn't give much information on like what's going on or like where is he or anything like that. But I don't know, just wanted to share with y'all because if any of you like...

1:44:37SpeakerI've got a street address. Just ask me and I'll send it to you.

1:44:41BubblemanActually, Himalayan Connection is in the chat right now saying Baba is safe.

1:44:48SpeakerYay! Cheers to Baba. I was just joking. But the answer was like a very, it was very, very happy. So cheers to that. And I was joking. I don't have anybody's street address. It shouts out to Indian Land and Land Race Exchange. That's the work that all of you are all doing collectively is very important. And I thank you very much for doing that work. It's really, really important.

1:45:18BubblemanWell, I'm glad to get together on a Sunday afternoon while it's raining out for a couple of hours of hash church. I got a stop at 11 today, so we've got about 15 minutes. If there's anything anyone in particular wants to bring up or talk about, or we can just let the conversation organically evolve and call it a day at 11 o'clock.

1:45:41Johnny BYou're going to go home. I think everybody needs a blowtorch to sanitize their tools. Like Sam was saying, we've got to use flame.

1:45:48SpeakerIt's important. That's one way you can do it, yes. You can also put it in a peroxide or bleach dip.

1:45:58Johnny BUsing a bleach dip is what we've been talking about for three years.

1:46:01SpeakerBoth of those will destroy viruses on contact, heat and gas. Bleach, various dips.

1:46:08Johnny BSo bleach and not isopropanol. So a lot of people were just using iso, dipping in their scissors.

1:46:14SpeakerI honestly don't know what's better, iso or bleach, but I've used bleach. I've never used iso, so I can't speak for it.

1:46:22Johnny BI'm going to say bleach because that's what you said. Thanks, Sam. Appreciate you.

1:46:25SpeakerISO is not known to kill the virus from what I understand.

1:46:30Johnny BOnce again, Colin, that's great. Yeah, we got to talk about this. This is important that people, they're trying to use ISO. Thank you for really saying that. It's not going to work. Let's really reinforce this. People got to use bleach. They got to make sure their scissors are clean and if possible, keep them tied to their strains until they know. And what I'm reading, what we're saying, you can have a plant that's infected, but I might not see it for a while.

1:46:53Collin PalmerYeah, and there's some bad actors as well. There are plants that, you know, like Chem D has a variegation to it, so it may seem like it, but, you know, we've extensively tested those from other sources around, and we haven't found it on that variety quite yet. But I would say also, make sure you're using clean water to just water your plants. Eucerium is a big problem right now, and other Other types of things like that.

1:47:24Collin PalmerAnd that will actually, that could actually produce and bring out plants, bring out the virus in plants that are not showing the traits. They're plants that are, you know, for instance, we have a plant that was, that was, that was brought into us and it didn't show any traits of it. Like you grew it out, it looked awesome. It smelled great. You'd extract, everything extracted fine. And then you tested a sample and it came hot, came back hot.

1:47:49Collin PalmerSo, So these are the things we've got to work through. And there's other plants that are actually resistant to this. And then I think that's the next step is to start isolating and understanding which plants are resistant. And then how long are they resistant?

1:48:07SpeakerOne way you can tell is, for example, in the grape industry, when you buy grape stocks to plant a new grape vineyard, it's all certified virus-free. And the same thing with strawberry clones. Strawberry starts from Driscoll. They're all guaranteed virus-free. So in the future, that will be the case with cannabis. Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:48:49Etienne FontanAnd there will be more in time. It's just it takes a long time. There's 33 biological supposedly issues that can infect plants through cloning. So we've been perpetuating clones in these problems for decades, which is why it also takes so long for them to pull these things out because they're so deeply embedded. And it's in the tissue culture, so they have to pull it out even before it's in the tissue culture.

1:49:17SpeakerI think there's even more than that at Gen because I've found 27 viruses that have been ID'd in cannabis. Not all of them cause symptoms, but they were transmittable and there was 27 of them. And then I know that there's a whole bunch of other bacteria and fungus. And, you know, so it's got to be a little bit bigger than the number you said.

1:49:43Etienne FontanThat's just what's being quantified currently. That's all. Someone in the chat. More knowledge, more experience, more expansion.

1:49:51Collin PalmerSomeone in the chat just said, doesn't most nurseries have a lab testing for this? No, they don't. Not most labs do not. I mean, most nurseries do not have a lab that works with them for these types of viroids. And that's problematic. So again, that's why we all need to bring better guidance to the community. So we all have some sort of ideology. Around what to do when this pops up.

1:50:19SpeakerMost nurseries honestly don't even know the 27 viruses that have been found in cannabis so far.

1:50:27Johnny BYou need to identify those viruses and what to look for and even really what you're growing. Like this hops, you really got to look for it. Then you start noticing it and then there are, yeah, to identify is the next step. Even when we know that there's these viruses, not being able to identify them and which ones are going to, In fact, the yields are resin production.

1:50:48SpeakerAnd when they they have no symptoms, it's really hard to identify them. But sometimes there can be three or four of them that are symptomless, but combined, they do have symptoms.

1:51:02Etienne FontanAnd it won't be until they hit a growth threshold that they actually trigger and those viruses activate. So you can have different ones activate across the spectrum of your garden, depending on where it is in the isolation that's actually taking place.

1:51:17Collin PalmerSo, I mean, it's it's serious back to, you know, like you can read the plant and there's a lot of studies showing that it's actually showed back up. And that's that's the that's the deeper All of that stuff. And I think that's the thing for me that just gets, you know, look, I'm a clone kid. Like I came from the clone era.

1:51:36SpeakerIf you eliminate it, it's gone unless it's reinfected by a contaminated tool or an insect or something else reinfects it. You know, there could be nematodes that are infected. There could be various things that are infected. If you truly get rid of it, it's gone until it is reintroduced.

1:52:01Collin PalmerInteresting. Do you believe that it has to be reintroduced? It had been suggested to me before, Sam, that it could come back from the tissue because it's a virus, right? I mean, in theory, I guess that.

1:52:14SpeakerChris Brown, Makes sense, but then if it comes back, that means you didn't get rid of it in the first place.

1:52:18Collin PalmerChris Brown, Exactly that's exactly right so so there's yeah so there you go so it's so again even more there's like you know more layers on layers right so. Chris Brown, it's a I hope that we can pick you know go through the process is going to be a 12 month process to understand all this or any of this. So I'll keep you updated as I go.

1:52:42Collin PalmerAnd if there's someone at Segre you guys can introduce me to and they're open to talking about this. Same page here. I would love to just chat with someone about understanding what they found and, you know,

1:52:57BubblemanProbably Ian would be the best person for you to talk to. And then if, and then he would.

1:53:01SpeakerYeah, but the problem with, the problem with SAGRA is they have a lot of time, money, and energy devoted to this. So they don't want to share their insider tricks so freely. I mean, they will share some of their information, but information that they spent a lot of money, time, and energy to develop themselves, they're a bit more tight-lipped about. Understood.

1:53:27Collin PalmerI get it.

1:53:29BubblemanStill worth chatting with them. At least you have access to a company that can clean your cultivars.

1:53:35SpeakerWell, yeah, even at all else, guys, like, yeah.

1:53:39Johnny BI'm going to have some stuff dropped off on Monday at a place out here in the Fraser Valley to start getting some strains tested and start identifying some of the symptoms we might be seeing and then talk more with you guys about some of these viruses that are really infecting some of the strains that are helping a lot of additional patients. And that's really the killer is that a lot of these strains that are being infected are really the...

1:54:03Johnny BChris Brown, One of the main strains that are being used out here, right? Like, like everybody else has their main key strains. That's what's actually being hit here. So the main houses, but the main strands, so kind of sucks.

1:54:15Collin PalmerYeah. And the other thing is, is most people are just going to call it because, you know, the, the, if you're, if you're in the regulated markets, you're, you know, it's the, it's the single of the week in the music world, but it's the flavor of the week in the cannabis world. Right. So, you know, you're, Aaron Ward- You're constantly playing that. You're the DJ, right? So, you know, I'm just concerned about these older varietals.

1:54:39Collin PalmerI could care less about some of these newer things that are being passed around. But some of these, you know, some of these plants have been around for 30 plus years. I mean, I would hate one day to find out the California orange has hot-laden virus and I can't fix it, right? That's my biggest concern, Sam. I don't care about these newer things that we're giving us.

1:55:01SpeakerIt can be fixed. Sager will grow it, take tips from the tip, tip, tip, tippy part, grow it again, do that several times in a row, and it comes out clean and virus-free.

1:55:15Johnny BWell, for me, that's my big thing. I've been running my same strain since 2005. It's my medicine. And I fear that I may not actually have that disease because it was spread through somebody that I know I have maybe. And now I'm like freaking out. And I don't want to lose something that's my medicine. And a lot of other people have those strains that they rely on and that they use every day.

1:55:35Johnny BAnd if they get this disease, they might lose what they value so much for what they need. That's it, guys.

1:55:46Johnny BSo keep it clean. Keep it safe.

1:55:48Collin PalmerKeep your grow room clean. Keep everything clean. Don't pass around dirty cuts and try to use QPCR when you can, kids. It's cheap. It's not very expensive to get these tests done. Look it up. Get it done. Make sure you test your stuff and don't unsuspectingly pass things around.

1:56:06Johnny B$30 or $35 to get me $30. Yeah, $30 to get me a leaf analysis. There you go.

1:56:14BubblemanAll right, well, I'm going to end it with a small video that I put up on Instagram the other day. Someone was just asking about it in the chat room. And this is this is Verdant down in California. You can check them out on Instagram. And they grabbed one of our craft units from Whistler Technologies, this like little compact, not super little, but much smaller than the most of the hash making equipment we make at Whistler Technologies.

1:56:40BubblemanAnd I just thought it was a tight video. Shout out to Carolina who went down there and filmed it. I am going to share my screen. It's just a 40 second video. Very short, but worth sharing. Happy Hash Church, everyone. Thanks for coming. I appreciate you all. Peace, everybody.

1:57:11BubblemanImpression it over there at Verdant.

1:57:16Dr Mark ScialdoneLiterally and figuratively.

1:57:18SpeakerMarcus, walk us through this machine. So that's the filtration there, eh?

1:57:24BubblemanLooks clean to me.

1:57:37BubblemanDon't we all know that sounds so well? The spoon hitting the freeze dryer tray. Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. I can't hear you, Colin.

1:57:47SpeakerDo one last dab before we go. I was going to ask you to walk us through the machine because I feel like I know what I'm looking at, but then I all of a sudden said to myself, maybe I don't.

1:57:55BubblemanYou know what? I'm going to bring like Daniel and maybe one of the engineers on here soon, like in the next couple of weeks, and they can talk about it. Because that collection piece right there is pretty great. Oh yeah, no, it's set up. They're loving it. They sent us pictures of them like hugging it and stuff. It was pretty hilarious.

1:58:16Johnny BYeah, I'm going through this like hot latent viral disease right now through everybody around me. Every house that I go to, everybody's gotten infected. Everybody's being tested lately. It's really a shit storm around me. Sucks.

1:58:32Johnny BIt's destroying. It's real. We started talking about it. We heard about it. But then as we were being safe about it and trying to be so safe, it still happens. Like separating scissors, everything. And we were using ISO. And I think that was the big thing right there, Colin and Sam. Thank you for that. I think bleach has to not hit all of these places. And I'm going to make sure that happens to a lot of people I know.

1:58:55Johnny BI'm going to go buy a bunch of bleach today.

1:58:58SpeakerYep. And I'll post it.

1:59:02SpeakerThe best place, the best places that are doing tissue culture and stuff, they have Bunsen burners that are burning. Yeah. And they put the tools under the Bunsen burners in between. So that's perfect. That's the best of the best.

1:59:20Etienne FontanKill it with fire, ladies and gentlemen. Kill it with fire.

1:59:26BubblemanAnd on that note, peace out, everybody. Peace, guys. Have a great day.

1:59:32SpeakerPeace out. Have a good week, everyone.

1:59:36Etienne FontanMuch love. Much puffage.

1:59:40Etienne FontanMarco's like... Like a cat mouth just looking at that shit there, Sam. Damn.

1:59:48SpeakerI want that to you, CP. Dude, this looks very psychedelic. That was an interesting thing to hear. Yeah. Did you dab it? How did you consume it? Yes, it's dab-ba-ba-ba-ba-ball. It's dab-ba-ba-ba-ba-ball.

2:00:08Johnny BThat's it. Well, you go kill some plants.

2:00:14SpeakerPeace out.

2:00:16Collin PalmerHave a good day. Have a good one. Peace, everyone.

2:00:25SpeakerThanks, Marcus.