Legends of Hash: Past, Present, and Future

0:00SpeakerAll right, this meeting is being live streamed. Got it. All right, so what do we say? We say welcome. Welcome, everybody. This is episode 25 of Hash Church 3.0. So let me just put that. I need to copy and paste the new link and then go over to our old link and let everyone know we are now live. With Skunk Man Sam, it's been 100 days, almost 100 days since the last time we did a hash church, if you can imagine.

0:33SpeakerIt was a bit of a long break. I know that everyone's been busy doing all sorts of different things. And I just thought it was a good time to throw one. I've been talking a lot with Addison DeMoura and the 800 pounds mantra. These guys are throwing the Legends of Hash Dinner down in California. And I thought, Well, let's do a little hash church. We can talk about that a little bit.

0:56SpeakerMaybe talk about some past legends of hashes. And really, most importantly, just to see your smiling faces. Well, your puppet, Sam, and Etienne's smiling face. I hope you're doing well, Etienne. How are you?

1:09Etienne FontanI'm doing well, sir. I've been working hard with my Veterans Action Council. Dude, I've been seeing you all over the place.

1:20SpeakerIt's been awesome.

1:22Etienne FontanYeah, we had a wonderful conversation with Noam Chomsky last Friday, which... Dude, I saw that!

1:30SpeakerIt's just one of the... That was crazy. I watched that, bro. Manufacturing Consent was one of my favorite books back in the day. That shit is no joke.

1:39Etienne FontanYeah, one of our members, Ricardo Prieta, basically went to one of his classes there in Arizona at the college. And he's one of our members. So he asked him and he said, yeah. So we were very fortunate to have that discussion. And literally, we spent some time crafting the questions because we didn't want to come off, you know, not prepared.

2:04SpeakerBut Noam Chomsky, bro. Noam Chomsky.

2:08Etienne FontanI know.

2:09SpeakerIt's a red manufacturing consent. Of course.

2:12Etienne FontanDude. I mean, I've been reading Noam since I was a teenager. So to actually sit down and have a conversation with him was humbling beyond all measure. But It also validated our work that we're doing at the national and international level. I'm working with Michael Prowitz. I actually spoke at the UN in April, and we're preparing to go to Vienna in the spring, as well as we're preparing for a lobby day in Washington, DC.

2:41Etienne FontanSo we vets are really putting on the pressure, really trying to put the US VA system and the Canadian VA system together, because we want what you have in Canada, which is The access is the availability to literally order on your cell phone right now and have your medicine within three days. You get a rating per certain amount of grams per day. So I won't go all into it.

3:06Etienne FontanI see we've got our other guests in here. But yeah, needless to say, we're doing a lot of good work for veterans internationally, and they're welcome to join us at veteransactioncouncil.com.

3:17SpeakerWe're going to get back to it and talk more about it later because I just got to tell you, man, and obviously you've been doing this for your whole life, everything that has led you to this, but I'm really proud of you, man. It makes me happy to see you out there shining, helping people in the most incredible way. I know what you do is not light for the people that you do it.

3:38SpeakerThis is life or death shit for these guys. This is not

3:45SpeakerWe're all proud of you, Etienne. You're fucking awesome. You're inspirational. It's great to see you and hear from you again. Here's Johnny B in the grow room, looking like a goddamn hippie. Yeah, I just said I was never going to cut my hair and put the headphones in. I've been working away this morning. Good morning, everybody. Happy Hush Sunday. Happy Hash Sunday. Yeah. And let's welcome Kevin and Addison from 800 Pounds Mantra.

4:17BubblemanThese are Addison. He's been on Hash Church plenty of time.

4:22SpeakerHis history, you guys have seen him from screaming at DEA agents out in front of dispensaries into, you know, founding the company Steep Hill and You know, now has a bunch of really cool stuff that they're going to tell us about today as well as we kind of welcome everyone. And yeah, welcome, guys. Welcome, Kevin. Welcome, Addison.

4:43KevinWelcome, Eddie. Mark in here. What's up, guys?

4:46SpeakerWhat's up? How's it going? Good to see everybody. Nice to meet you guys. Yeah, man. Good to be seen. Good to be seen. Good to be seen. Good to be seen. It's good to have a hashtag. I'm not going to lie. I've been watching all these Zoom things happen, like ATN with Noam Chomsky on the Zoom meeting, and I was kind of like, man, like, got to step it up.

5:07SpeakerWe've got this platform here. You know, anytime you guys feel that you want to do a hash church, hit me up. It's kind of spur of the moment. I know that I hit you guys up last minute, and I do thank all of you for showing up. Welcome, Dr. Mark with the fish shirt. This guy's just been crushing fucking fish shows left, right, and center. Every time I look at his Facebook, it's either his daughter going off to college, Or him fucking tripping balls at a fish show with all his amazing friends.

5:34SpeakerSo good for you, buddy.

5:36Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's great to be back, you know, at live music, large live music events again. Kind of, I don't know, it was strange in many ways, but, you know, yeah, it was great, great to be back. Great to be back here too.

5:54SpeakerAwesome. Hell yeah. It's good to have you back here, dude. Good to have Best Friend Farms in the house. I know you got chopped over at Instagram there recently. Do you want to give your new Instagram account up?

6:06Bryan Best Friend FarmsOh, yeah. Thank you. Back up on Best Friend Farms Space 2.0, the second version here. So thanks for shouting that out. Nice to be back.

6:17SpeakerI already saw you posted. What did you post? Like some crazy fucking like... It was like this... Dome of hash covered in like grease or something. Like I didn't even, I just caught it really quick. Your last post. I was like, right. Oh, that one today. Yeah. Yeah.

6:35Bryan Best Friend FarmsThat one I just did this morning before this was some, some flower rods. And that was that a gas mask show key. I just kind of whipped it up and played with it before the, before the show.

6:49SpeakerYeah. Nice to be here. Representing East coast.

7:00KevinWhat was that, Marcus?

7:05Bryan Best Friend FarmsLost you there. Yep. He froze up.

7:10SpeakerOkay, now that Marcus is gone, I'm taking over the show.

7:15KevinThank God. Thank you, Sam. Wait, that wasn't Marcus? Whoops.

7:23SpeakerYou know what? I'll be honest. I have Starlink. And every once in a while, Starlink just glitches for about like five, five, 10 seconds. Otherwise, it's incredible. Shout out to Elon Musk for putting satellites out into space and creating the internet where, you know, I live in an area that doesn't have good internet. So when he first put up his first 2000 satellites, he put it up into an area where a lot of indigenous people live, a lot of people that live that don't have access.

7:49SpeakerThat's where he put up the first thousand or so. And so I guess he's eventually going to get to 60,000. Eventually he'll eliminate cell phone services because everything will be WhatsApp and Wi-Fi calling because you'll have Wi-Fi literally everywhere you go in the world. Kind of scary, kind of awesome. I figured I'd get on the beta and support someone who's thinking outside of the box because I don't know, I really appreciate thinking outside of the box.

8:16SpeakerThat's my trip.

8:21Etienne FontanAll of our trips, if we all stayed within the box, we all wouldn't be here, correct? No, exactly.

8:28SpeakerWe're trying to get the Starlink at the office. We're trying to get the Starlink at the office for 800 because we have terrible internet over there. So, and we have no good options. Actually, you don't need a box anymore because the most part is seedless. You needed a box when you wanted to, you know, clean your seeds out of your weed, but those days are gone.

8:54KevinNo, you're right. I fought for a long time to get out of the box, so I'm glad to be on this side for sure. Definitely. I got to, I'm going to take a dab, guys. I was just thinking we need to take a dab.

9:09SpeakerI'm already heated up, fellas. I don't know. Okay, I'm getting to my dab. Dude, I got an email in, so I'm already heated up too. We've got the octaves and the, you know, regular quartz nails, but the octaves where it's at. Shout out to Pelly. Shout out to Pelly Nail. Shout out to D Nail. I got my D Nail, Pelly Nail combo going right now. Shout out to Mothership for the eggs.

9:37SpeakerI have a Dabinator, which I can honestly say has been plugged in and on for the last three years. I never turn it off. Yes! You know what? Shout out to Maximilian from Dabinator because honestly, I actually helped Sam get his Dabinator through Max because Max is such a fucking awesome guy. But when I first got mine, I finally killed mine, but it took me almost four years

10:08SpeakerPretty much every single day. And when Sam says he's left his on every single day, I can promise you, I bet you that it's probably rusted into place because it's never been used. I've also took it to Jamaica with me and it works fine with Jamaican electricity and you could even use it with a motorcycle battery. So how did you keep it on on the way to Jamaica?

10:36SpeakerYeah, exactly. I plugged it to a cigarette lighter. No, I'm joking. I didn't have it on. It was in my suitcase. Aha! So there's proof that you're full of shit. No, I haven't been in Jamaica in three years. Think about it.

10:53Dr Mark ScialdoneOh! They don't want you putting that stuff in your suitcase. You're supposed to carry it on. Checkmate.

11:00SpeakerThat was good.

11:03SpeakerAs if I would ever get one over on. All you have to do is completely clean them first, spotless.

11:12Etienne FontanAll right, everybody's going to tell us what they're smoking, so we can't just, it's show and tell time.

11:21SpeakerCookies and cream, hash roses.

11:24Dr Mark ScialdoneForcing me to move upstairs, hold on.

11:29Dr Mark ScialdoneI got some.

11:30SpeakerYou're muted, Kevin.

11:33SpeakerWe got some Grease Monkey 9120 press. Gets you so fucking lit. I got the 7390 press of the Medicoach. Trips on this is 7.6.

11:49KevinGot some resin. Resin. This is the 90U. Fresh Press that looks like it's actually, this is whipped, but this is some glue. Oh my goodness.

12:08SpeakerSome rosin jam. I got some rosin diamonds.

12:12Etienne FontanYeah, I got some Z. Cal done with the calyx.

12:15SpeakerThis is some rosin jam. Rosin. I've actually been letting this cold cure after I did the diamond separation for about three weeks. I'm just going to send it off to testing, see what happens.

12:31SpeakerWhat's up, Collins? Nice little jar. Yeah, man. Good to see you.

12:38KevinHow's everyone doing? Nice to meet you. Getting high.

12:42SpeakerColin, I'm loving that synth setup in the back there, bud.

12:48Etienne FontanI'm digging Dr. Mark's pup setup over here on the head.

12:51SpeakerDude, that dog is awesome.

12:57SpeakerYeah. His skin is so thin. You can see his pinkness. Look at that belly. That's what's up. It's the calling, dude. And what? You've been coming to Hash Church for seven years with those synths behind you. I've never heard you hit a key.

13:14Collin PalmerWell, we can change that anytime you want. These, I can turn them on. Maybe towards the end.

13:21SpeakerMaybe towards the end, you and Dr. Mark can recreate the Hash Church song.

13:26Collin PalmerWe can do space. We'll do our version of space. I like it.

13:30SpeakerI like it.

13:31Collin PalmerI like it. I like it a lot. Yeah, for many years.

13:39SpeakerSo, you know, today's Hash Church was really sort of inspired by... Well, it was really inspired by Addison reaching out about a month ago, maybe more, maybe less. I have no idea. I have three children. He reached out. He was like, dude, like, what the fuck? Like, what about Legends? Like, when are you going to, should we do a Legends in California? I was like, dude, I mean, obviously, does the bear shit in the woods?

14:04SpeakerAnd I did find out, indeed, the bear does shit in the woods. I'm not sure if you guys have seen this. But yeah, it's been proven, guys. The bear does shit in the woods. That's proof. I need a picture of the... Oh, we started talking.

14:23Etienne FontanI need a picture of the Pope shitting in the woods. That's the other one I need. That's a good one. Oh yeah, does the Pope shit in the woods.

14:30SpeakerThere you go. The Pope represents faith, but drives around in a bulletproof vehicle. Enough said. God willing.

14:38KevinWho's he really trust? God willing.

14:39SpeakerSo anyway, we started... Yeah, exactly. He doesn't trust anyone. So we started talking about it. You know, he's, you know, and for me, I wasn't avidly searching. Legends has always been the most organic thing. And for those of you that are living under a rock and don't know what Legends of Hash is, and maybe Sam, I would love to hear your perspective as well, because I bet you we have slightly different memories or perspectives of how it came to be.

15:08SpeakerBut from my sense, I kind of remember sitting around with you at your place and Rob probably was there.

15:16BubblemanMichael definitely wasn't there.

15:19SpeakerI don't think for the first conversation, but we sort of started talking about, you know, I think it started really with Sam talking about how he'd been at every cannabis top from day one and that him and Rob always got gifted tickets from Hagar and they would show up at every one and kind of walk around and Kind of talking a little bit about some of the stuff we didn't like about it you know it was always it was always a cool thing to bash on high times for whatever reason even though at the time it was the only gig in town and really it was amazing you know the fact that they pulled off what they pulled off it was amazing and it was really also the birth of legends because we sort of I remember us talking like hey like if we could just get the best kind of 50 hash aficionados out of this group of I don't know how many went to the cup, like 1,000 or 2,000 people, maybe between 1,000 and 1,500 in those early days.

16:10SpeakerI don't really remember. And for me, it became a metaphor of like, yeah, let's run all these people through the bubble bags, filter out all the 220s and the 190s and the 160s, and we'll just collect a party full of 90s. I just want 50, 90 micron people at this party. And is that how you remember the first conversation going, Sam, or what's your memory of it?

16:33SpeakerI remember that our focus was really cannabis people. They didn't even have to be necessarily a hash maker in the very, very beginning. I mean, we lean towards that, but if you were a serious mover or anything involved with the cannabis industry, You know, and you were a heavyweight and appreciated smoking. Then you got an invite because it was invitation only.

17:06SpeakerIt definitely wasn't the first year that I was asking to see people's hashes that modified by the second or third year. It turned into this like, you know, because we had this incredible group of people in there the first year. It was really an amazing group of people. Truly like I. It's almost sad that we didn't have just one person videographing and have that tape locked in a vault somewhere, because to open that in 30 or 40 years would have really been something incredible to leave behind.

17:37SpeakerBut at the time, for various reasons, we and we've always stuck with this, that cameras just should not be allowed. At Legends in Barcelona the last year, I did allow one guy to come in to videograph and we controlled those audio and videos and there was no, you know, everyone was let known at the door. It kind of got to the point to where, you know, cannabis is becoming more and more legal and there's less and less illegal activity.

18:06SpeakerYou know, in the first years, you know, there were some people that moved large amounts of hash that ended up at the party and in respect to them, Because not that, you know, me and Sam were smoking on that hash or whatever, but it was important that that hash went to where it needed to go. And it was important that those people that would smoke that hash, like I was talking to Addison earlier on the different, you know, compounds that we consume.

18:30SpeakerAnd if you read Michael Pollan's newest book, this is your mind on plants, or this is your brain on plants. Great. Yeah. Great book. Caffeine. And he goes all into the I liked when he talked about how conversations were created that shaped the world after work beers at the bar turned into tea houses and caffeine, coffee, coffee houses, new people, intellectuals started having different conversations in those environments.

18:56SpeakerAnd those conversations started to shape the world. And now, you know, what legends could potentially really become And maybe it even was a little bit back in the day is to have an event where real charity people, hashish people get together. And now in rooms where we're allowed to get together, it's not illegal. And we can have conversations that now shape the future world that we're going to leave to our children.

19:24SpeakerAnd that shit excites me. And that's why when you hit me up, Addison, and have this not just been super easy to Addison, like, has this been difficult? Has there been like lots of obstacles or is it? To me, it's just felt really flowing and smooth. You know, everything you guys keep bringing to the table. I've talked enough. Why don't you and Kevin mention a little bit about your perspective on this and the plan for Legends of Hash California One?

19:51KevinDefinitely. Thank you, man. I think first thing to speak to what you just said, one of the things that I think nowadays is that we all have phones. Those phones are cameras. And bringing the whole tradition of not having phones All right, so we're going to take a quick break. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to take a quick break.

20:37KevinYou know, they're sort of been, if it was legends, they were being invited because they had the hash. What we tried to incorporate here is when we invite a maker, your plus one, we recommend that your plus one is either the breeder or the farmer. And that way we're putting everybody in the room together on this one. And we're also now, Marcus and I were talking earlier and it's like hash makers are awesome.

21:01KevinYou know, they're forensic. They're guys that are doing forensic work that are separating things and able to like really get it down to the point where it's pure, where it's completely isolated. That's that's hard work. But in order for them to do their job, they can't do it without great material.

21:19SpeakerHow many people are coming to your event? Do you have any idea?

21:23KevinYes. So we have, I'll break it down real quick. There's 25 makers. Those makers each get a plus one, which will be either the farmer or the breeder. Then there's 20 guests that are industry, you know, people that we think those 20 makers would benefit from being in the room with. Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman,

21:56KevinAll of these guys have had more organic inputs into the cannabis supply production for California than probably most people over the years. We just want them to be a room full of guys like that. So those 20 will be those type of cats, not necessarily influencers, but just people who have really lent to the production of good material, good hash, and a lot of guys too that have never had an opportunity to go to Legends.

22:18KevinThat's kind of part of this too. We're not trying to, you know, we want to be able to invite guys that have won before, but we're hoping that there's going to be more of these. And we want to just get that those those makers to be guys that might have not been invited. The 20 are people that are pretty much, you know, industry guys that really should be there.

22:38KevinAnd then we have 15 spaces that are that are staff and sponsorship. So. That's where we're kind of fitting that all together, putting it together. So it'll be 85 people total. Lebanese dinner. It's going to be, you know, I knew that this thing was, I knew that this thing was greenlit and by the culture and everyone else, when I reached out to Deppie and I invited him as a guest and Deppie came back and was like, well, we want to do a mothership drop during your event.

23:09KevinSo now what's cool is he's producing glass that's specifically All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started. So we're going to go ahead and get started. So we're going to get started.

23:40KevinIt's, I knew that it was going to be something different as soon as we got his blessing. And as soon as we started to see, you know, the, the, the biggest guys that we reached out to, I was calling everyone. We wanted to keep this thing in line with legends. And I figured, Chris Brown, You know, in my mind, I'm like, what would Marcus do? Would Marcus, would Marcus send you an email with all the information in it?

24:00KevinProbably not. I was like, Marcus would just message you and be like, I need to do a call with you, you know, like an old drug deal. So we wanted to make sure that every one of the contacts that go on for Legends is just like an old drug deal. It's a phone call. You know, it's a, hey bro, if I text you, just call this number back.

24:18KevinSo everything's done in line with the old way. And it's like a phone call, no cameras, no phones. We're making sure that, you know, it's secretive in that sense. We're making sure that anyone talks about it, talks about it as a dinner. So it's cloaked in that original sort of secret, you know, how it was back in the day, which I think is helping the event a bunch because it's just kind of making people understand that it's an exclusive event.

24:43KevinThat it's that it's invite only and that it's going to be a celebration of hashish. You know, we wanted to this year incorporate Afghanistan as the cultural sort of focus for it with what's going on there. And I think it's a good time to kind of to let everybody know that the United States is going to get a bunch of Afghan refugees, a bunch of people from Afghanistan.

25:04KevinAnd hopefully we get some guys that make great hash that we can that can come and show us and teach us some other cool stuff. So Yeah, it's going to be an event that, or not even an event, it's a dinner. We're really just honored to be able to put it on. And there's not a day goes by that I don't wake up and be like, all right.

25:24KevinIs this going to fall apart today? You know, is this going to end it? It's done the complete opposite. Every person that's wanted to be involved has reached out. We've got big guys behind it that want to help with it. And it was really hard for us to kind of figure out how to pay for it, how to take care of it, because we don't want to bring in just any sponsor.

25:43KevinBut it is a dinner. It is, you know, when we when we've gone to other events and we've seen other things, what's going on? We just looked at it. One of the big conversations that Marcus and I had was You know, how do you take legends, which has been so secretive and so protected, and bring it out to the public now and put it into a recreational state?

26:02KevinHow do you do that? You know, and it's like, well, there's certain components that have to transfer and one of them is going to be, you know, has to be marketed in some way. It has to be, we want to eventually open this thing up to a larger community and be able to allow people to sort of enjoy hashish at the same level. And appreciation for hashish at the same level may never be at like the geeked out, We've got a lot of people out there that are like, you know, nerdy level that we are at, but at the same time to educate them on hash and to get them open to like, what the fuck is hash?

26:31KevinYou know, I talk to some people and they think hash is like opium or something. They don't even fucking know. Like they still to this day are like, oh, that's weed mixed with heroin, right? And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? So the broader public really doesn't understand. Bucky Dodd, You know what hash is about me and Marcus talked about it and the big picture, the big dream would be to throw a massive hash event in California recreationally legal.

26:56KevinBucky Dodd, and invite all kinds of people and educate them and then within that event on one of the nights we took legends into that night. Bucky Dodd, Because now we've got everyone there, we can bring you know glass culture everything to this and then at some point now, you know I was thinking. Marcus can finally monetize this thing and actually take it to other places and build something so other people can start to enjoy it because weed's legal now.

27:19KevinIt's not illegal. It's not what it used to be. And it's not like, uh, you know, in some places we still have brothers that are, you know, sitting behind bars. We still have brothers that are, that are, you know, having to duck and run, but we all know the fun of the duck and run. Like I, I honestly, in a lot of ways, miss the duck and run days of, of hammering it and, and.

27:39KevinYou know, the bank of the earth and all this cool shit that we lived a part of. Nowadays, it's like, you know, we can fucking legally do shit. And it's sort of some of the taste has been taken out of it. So I don't know. I think this we want to keep this so that taste is still there. But then at the same time, how the fuck do you bring this thing to the bigger public?

27:57KevinThere's a lot of nerves and kind of doing that.

28:00SpeakerSo, yeah, I love that you guys are connecting it to the farms. It's really all about like, Let's get hash cultivars. All these new people in Cali and old folks that have been growing forever that produce something really special one year, where can we put that where it's on display and it gets the attention it deserves to get by the people that it needs to get from?

28:25SpeakerSo not only is it promoting hash makers and the love of hash, but of course the root, which is that organic, regenerative, biodynamic farmer, Who's producing and loving this resin into being. And they, you know, it's all just like a really, we never did that at Legends. It was always kind of individuals and independents. And you could even go buy great hash if you wanted to, you know, end up at a Legends.

28:53SpeakerYou know, if you had five hash, beautiful, beautiful hash. What was nice about Legends was because it was in Amsterdam at the High Times, we had such an international selection of people. I mean, except that there was a lot of Canadians there, more than anybody. I'm joking. Mostly Californians and then Canadians. Oh, yeah. It was awesome. I remember literally counting people from over 20 countries at a Legends dinner.

29:24BubblemanYeah, sure. There's people representing First from so many countries right now.

29:28SpeakerAnd, you know, one thing I will say about Legends as well is I never left the Legends and got the cannabis cough. That was always at other places. No, but there were several times when the restaurant Artiste, the Lebanese restaurant where we used to hold the event, was so filled with smoke that I had to go outside and breathe some fresh air.

29:54KevinYeah, yeah. I don't know, that was gnarly. That Wubbly is, that thing is unlike anything I've ever hit in my entire life. I remember that I waited, every time I went, I would wait as long as I could to hit that thing because I knew that after I hit it, it was just fucking space.

30:13SpeakerWhat used to blow my mind, where was that girl from Denmark or something that used to, Marcus, that used to hit on it like crazy? Oh, she even lit a few for us. That's right. Oh my God. I almost forgot about her. She was in Denmark. That's right. Unbelievable. Listen, it wasn't just that bubbly bubbly either, Addison. It was, it was, it was Sam's hash. Like that hash is not normal.

30:42SpeakerAnd it wasn't back then, even when I had already been smoking full mouth and I felt like, oh yeah, dude, I know what quality is. I went to his house and the first time I smoked a bowl of his hash and I'm shitting you not, this is not a lie. I literally got So high, so fast. I was like, oh no, what if I shit myself or vomit?

31:01SpeakerOr I just went through all these crazy thoughts. And then he fed me like 20 more. No joke. While he himself took 50, like over the course of a couple of hours. I left that guy's house so fucked up in my head. I was just like, I remember Rob saying like, oh yeah, I was really stoned last night. I was like, I mean, how stoned could you be, Rob?

31:23SpeakerI mean, come on. What did you eat? Like an ounce of resin? And then I found myself in that position walking home from Sam's one late night in Amsterdam and just being absolutely floored at how strong that man's hash was. And then of course I'm like, oh, okay. So he went and lived in the hash producing country, collected the seeds, grew hundreds of thousands to pick the varieties, bred them with his savant-like capabilities, then processed them with his own fucking incredible processing methods.

31:53SpeakerThat's a full meal deal. That's like a full house. I remember too, Marcus, that the first couple events, it was mostly my hash we were smoking. Then everybody started bringing better and better and better, especially with water hash. That's what really changed the world. First water hash came in and really lots of people had really high quality water hash. And then it just kept growing and growing and growing.

32:24SpeakerWhich you could also tell based on Sam's level of utter and complete snobbery. It was like at a level back then that was like you couldn't even fucking imagine it. It was palpable. He would just not smoke anyone's hash. He would only smoke his own hash. I would smoke anybody's hash. I would smoke anybody's that was as good or better than mine. And there wasn't any is what I'm saying.

32:48SpeakerBack, back, back. I know that. You were just smoking your own hash. I was like, this motherfucker won't take like a hit of my five star.

32:58KevinI wish I had some of that. He's popping the seven. Could you imagine, Marcus, if there was a selection of hash from each of the legends That would have been put away and saved, stored cryogenically for some day to come out and get smoked. Could you imagine? I mean, that would have been better than any footage of anything, I think, just to taste.

33:20SpeakerBut you can do it at California One, at the first annual California Legends. You can do that very thing. This is what happens when you get together with your friends. That's right. What you need to do is put a kilo away of each of the winners. That's good. It's going to be tough.

33:38KevinKevin, I think we just raised. We're going to need a kilo and 40 grams to make this thing.

33:45SpeakerSorry, guys, kilo to 40 grand. But I mean, thinking of that, like that, like a hash vault like that would be incredible. And the legends, you know, event really could. I guarantee if you keep it from oxygen, and you freeze it, and you keep it out of the light, it does not change in

34:07SpeakerA decade or two, really, or it changes so little you can barely notice it.

34:12KevinEven a well-built root cellar would store it very well too.

34:17SpeakerThis piece was 13 years old. Because terpenes dissipate. You know, you've got to freeze terpenes or you lose them. 13 years old.

34:30KevinHow's that?

34:33SpeakerWow.

34:34KevinWhat batch is that from? That's from Master Kush.

34:42SpeakerOh, you can't even believe how good it smells. It's been at room temperature for 13 years. Really? And it's still terpene rich? Dude, I'm telling you, listen, I remember when I smoked the whatever that 91 year batch was from the, you know, that Michael had that was like 10 years and then 13 and 16. I think the last time I hit it, it was like 19 or 20.

35:07SpeakerAnd it had no taste whatsoever, like it was stale. All the heads were red. This is the opposite. Yeah, yeah, these heads were all red too. Oh dude, I have pictures of it, trust me. This is the exact same way, but instead of powder, this is 13 years old, guys. It's incredible. That's so red. Like, isn't that fucking crazy? Sorry, I'm doing a shitty job on getting the camera to focus on it.

35:37SpeakerNo, I can see, you can see, it looks like, it looks like Chad.

35:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI tried that, what, three years ago, and it was hard.

35:44Collin PalmerI take 12.

35:45Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDude, didn't it taste like perfume, John?

35:48SpeakerYeah, and like I said, it tastes like the old PK. I take 12. Try to explain that, Mark. Say that. You do. How could these terpenes still be present after that long?

36:00Dr Mark ScialdoneMark, it would be really interesting to see terpenes. What was the terpenes and terpenoids, which are less volatile? There's probably no myrcene left, but I bet you you got hashachine and probably other degraded terpenes as part of the age.

36:17SpeakerIt would be really interesting to see the entire terpene profile and percentages originally and today.

36:27KevinYeah.

36:28Collin PalmerOh, wow.

36:29KevinLook at you.

36:31Collin PalmerGood Lord. Ooh, look at that. That's aged.

36:36SpeakerThis is from Dragonfly Earth Medicines Farm. This is the Mendo Brass Bubble. And when you light it and exhale it, it literally tastes and smells like a beautiful, like natural perfume in the air. Almost jasmine-like, but not jasmine. Interesting. Oh, my God. And this is also like, they must have given this to me like a year or two ago. So nice.

37:06KevinIf we're going to talk about hash, we might as well see some. Hey, Colin, how do you store those 12 grams every time?

37:14Collin PalmerSo I break them up and I induction seal the jars. And then I put those into a minus 40 freezer and keep them there. And I take them out one at a time as I need.

37:31KevinHow's your collection looking? What do you got there?

37:35Collin PalmerOh boy, I've got a lot here. I've got some California orange bud here that I'm trying right now. I've got some C99 here to the right, some GMO.

37:48Collin PalmerGod, there's watermelon zum zum right as well. There's a bunch. There's like over 100 different varietals that I have that I have kept.

37:56SpeakerSo dope.

37:58Collin PalmerThe California orange you have, is it citrusy? Yes, it is, Sam. It's the, it's the Eric 77 cut, actually. That's a rare one. 77 cut, or if that's, if the kids are even calling it that these days.

38:18SpeakerMany people have told me that I made a hybrid with skunk number one and California orange, two of my favorite Indica Sativa hybrids back in the 80s. And, uh, That's what I've been told Tangie was selected from.

38:37Collin PalmerI think that's the same cut, Sam, actually. I think it's the California orange. That's the surviving cut might be that same one, Sam. From what I understand, it's believed to be that.

38:52SpeakerBecause not all California orange was citrusy. Some of them were barely citrusy, and some of them were really pronounced citrusy. And those are the ones I like. Yeah, that's the one Shanti Baba had. Shanti Baba had the super citrusy one, and he had like a multi-acre greenhouse in Bellinzona in the south of Switzerland. And I remember walking into it, And they were all about six to seven feet tall, Christmas trees, citrus, had my eyes watering because I was literally crying.

39:25SpeakerIt was one of the most beautiful things I'd ever seen. I asked him right away, I said, how, who grew these plants? This is incredible. Then he told me it was their first year growing them. And they were the local Swiss rose gardeners that he just took and said, okay, listen, this is just like roses, except instead of thorns, it's a resin. That you can get in your eyes.

39:48SpeakerSo don't rub your eyes while you're working on the plant. And these fucking rose gardeners just crushed it. Like I could not believe it. Shout out to Shanti Baba and his rose gardener crew in Bellazona 2001. And welcome, Josh. And Josh. Dragonfly. Regenerative. Welcome, guys. Sorry, we've got to welcome these guys. They've been here for a while and we're just talking over them. Terrible. People who grow the resin that we love.

40:19SpeakerOh, my goodness.

40:20Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI have. Hey, good morning, everyone. Glad to hear about the legends of hash and everything that's going on. You know, who doesn't like hash, you know, and rosin. If Frenchie was here, he would tell us rosin is not hash. So I have to bring that into the into the onto the table.

40:38SpeakerI would say the same thing.

40:40KevinWe included in the legends for this year. Say what?

40:45SpeakerRodney is not hash, but hash rosin is hash rosin.

40:50KevinYeah, so we included rosin into the legends for California One.

40:56SpeakerNice. I would let rosin into any contest because technically it's not old school hash for sure, but it can be just as clean, as potent, and as beautiful and terpene rich as any of the dry sips I ever made in my life. We let it in because of how it makes us feel. Are you requiring that it's only hash rosin or are you letting flower stuff in?

41:25KevinNo, they can select either melt or rosin. So it's their choice. If they want to do flower rosin, they're more than welcome to. We don't really see a bunch of guys that are doing flower rosin. It's mainly, it's all gone to hash rosin at this point. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, we wanted to incorporate the grower on this one for the main reason that when I got into cannabis, I was a grower at first and I grew some plants and I didn't become a hash maker until I became a grower.

41:57KevinAnd it was that lifestyle of hiding in there and, you know, trimming my own shit and I'd get the finger hash and then I'd mark, I was Mark's rep for bubble bags. In Northern California, when I was a sales rep in the snowboard industry, and that's how Mark and I met. So I was running around meeting people at snowboard shops. And at night, I'd come home from being a rep and I'd work my grow room.

42:20KevinAnd, you know, on Saturday, I'd make hash and fucking, you know, so we wanted to make sure that the grower was there because we feel like there wouldn't be a hash maker without the grower. It wouldn't exist. And some of us, the way we got into it was through that door, was through like,

42:38SpeakerThat lonely lifetime, you know. Also too, for resin, there's actually dry shift rosin, there's water hash rosin, there's fresh frozen rosin, there's from plant. So, I mean, it just goes on and on, but to me, it's all good if at the end you like it. Yeah.

43:03KevinHey, somebody can blast dry shift. And you know what, this isn't,

43:06SpeakerThis isn't an Instagram post. This isn't for clout. This is just for how it makes you feel. And wouldn't it be amazing at some crazy legend dinner if someone came in with hash rosin or flower rosin and smashed everyone off the- We're open to that. I'm open.

43:24KevinYou got to chuckle.

43:25SpeakerYou got to be open to anything. Or I even think- You hash makers out there, make sure that doesn't happen.

43:32KevinI mean, I think if someone enters- With real sift, like actual sift, quality made sift instead of melt, instead of some of these other things, I think that's something a lot of people don't see is actual sift. Like, you know, fucking, you can look at sift long enough and it turns to fucking melt. That's how sensitive that shit is. So it's, you're talking the purest of the pure.

43:57KevinAnd when I talk to a lot of people, they don't know, they're like, oh yeah, sift. And I'm like, that's not sift. Like that's, sift is so different. You know like someone could slap you in the face with sift and you would just be happy no matter what because there's something about sift compared to any of those other moves like like you know Dave was saying it's it's just I'm really I'm excited and we did this in a way because we're I would I would be blown away if I saw real sift and someone brings that to the table I hope they do and I'd be blown away if someone does actually turn heads with flower rosin Not that it can't be done.

44:32KevinIt's just, I think the cultivar has to be specific. The grower has to be specific in order to make it happen.

44:38SpeakerYou know, I ask this question, it might be a little, a little off, but this is a good panel of folks to ask. Cause I'm, I'm not as experienced in hash as all you folks. I'm a grower, but do you see difference in, in hash made with made sense to me ever Samia with seeds, you know, cause I'm, I'm breeding. So I have a lot of pollen flying around.

45:00SpeakerNo, absolutely. It's not as good. It's not as good. It could still be great. But the terpene levels are down by about 25% or more. And the cannabinoids can be slightly down. And there's less yield for the plant, of course. Sure. Because you're making seeds. We had we had I had done a bunch. I mean, I've been doing a lot of this because I have a lot of pollen flying.

45:30SpeakerSo it's kind of like the only thing I can do is to to make process it that way and ends up coming out really good. I mean, it's not like the fucking stuff that you're going to remember for the rest of your life, but it's good. A minus quality stuff that I put on the market and people are really happy about. And and I've actually had some people come up to me and be curious, like, you know, there's something extra that's getting me high in there.

45:52SpeakerAnd that's why I asked, because I smoke so much goddamn weed that I don't have a sensitive palate. You do understand that all of the imported sifted hash of the world is from seeded plants. Right, right, right. Of course.

46:08Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineMakes sense. But those entries are not generally winning. Sure, sure.

46:15SpeakerYou know, my whole brain has really gotten onto this in the last like two months. I've been thinking a lot about hash because I am breeding. And when I have someone process my material, I lose 50 percent, 40 percent of my work. And so I've been I finally got myself a freeze dryer and I was like holy shit it dawned on me I just what you guys were talking about I could store this stuff freeze dried and sell it and hold it you know I could do a big run of this one thing that's really cool right now and save the whole thing or have whatever and and 10 years later open that up and be like yo I got some GMO anybody interested and people be like fuck yeah so it's pretty exciting.

46:54SpeakerSo I love the idea of doing it on a bigger level where you're bringing in super high end producers and washers and being able to hold it that way. Yeah, it's crazy.

47:06KevinIt's, it's the, where it's gone too. It's like just looking at it from, we get the, we get the privilege to visit all these facilities and we're going into them. And my favorite part is when you walk through their setup and my second favorite, or probably my favorite part is when they bring you to the freezer and they open that freezer and you're looking at We're like, oh, that's actually where their money is.

47:29KevinIt's in that freezer that they've got stored there. But the other nutty part is when you walk through their processing areas,

47:44KevinAnd I can sit there and it's Marcus's, you know, those those canocos, those these machines, these fucking freeze dryers, all this new equipment that you see wasn't here before. And now it's like finally nicotine can have dry hash, right? Like, you know, it'll be dry enough because the machines are there instead of having to do it the old way. But nowadays it's like it blows my fucking mind how much equipment is available And the fact that it's not cheap to produce this stuff, like some of the big stuff at Whistler Tech is insane.

48:18KevinYou know, we're trying to get Mark to get us a large machine just to have at the event or something, you know, so people can be like, what the fuck? Because this thing is gone so far. I can see behind you like the dehydrators. It's just there's so much that's now here and present for guys to be able to, you know, process. And it's like California. You can have six plants, right?

48:40KevinYou can take those six plants. You can flower that year, your six plants. You can take that flower. You can sell all of it. I always joke that you can move a box and fucking open a solventless lab.

48:55SpeakerThat's where my brain was going because I'm paying all these people to process. I'm paying all these people. And I'm like, wait a sec. I have a couple big 30 by 96. I run the whole thing by myself. And I'm like, I could hire a crew to come in for five days, bring it down. And if I got a big machine like Marcus's or the Whistler Tech, I could wash the whole goddamn thing in three or four days by myself.

49:15SpeakerAnd then I'm done, you know, and I've wrapped up. I save some for long-term storage and I can sell a little bit and move on. And I was just like, holy fuck. Dude, then you could lease, you could rent out your machine too. Right. Dude, I'm all about it. I just seriously put a ton of time into this. I've just been wanting to call you on it, you know.

49:32SpeakerBut it would change my game entirely as a breeder because then I can just focus on my plants, you know, and I can then I can sift through everything and melt really easy. And like, God damn it, it took me a long time to get here. I feel kind of stupid because I was actually putting out rosette in first dread, you know. But I just kind of took a break on it for years because of it.

49:51SpeakerSorry, I didn't hear. Now you can breed specifically for hash dumping. Totally. Totally. I've been working on that. Yeah, for sure, man. It's not so easy, but yes, it can be done. There's a path.

50:07Collin PalmerYeah. Yeah, you have to spend the time and really focus on all the data points and, you know, just where the loss is and isn't through the process. But it's, you know, I find it really rewarding and I recommend everyone to do it. It's something that I've found. I was a grower first, and then I wanted to make hash like most of you on here. And it's, you know, look, you hone in on what's important.

50:32Collin PalmerAnd to me, it was terpene profile and yield. And I just knew that if I didn't do that, I'd just be looking at, you know, less than 2% yields all the time and, you know, always wonder why, right? So...

50:45SpeakerWith dry sift, if you really want just pure heads, you only get about 3% from a kilo of wheat. With water, you can get, you know, 10, maybe even 12 or whatever. With rosin, you got a similar number. So, I mean, economically, if you just grow in a few plants and you want to make your own, rosin or water hash makes more sense. The highest yields I've ever gotten with rosin and water hash is close to 30%.

51:21SpeakerThose are rare, but they did happen. That's insane.

51:24BubblemanI did that.

51:25SpeakerWhere is my bike? That's tremendous.

51:27Etienne FontanThat's crazy.

51:28SpeakerIt's tremendous. You generally get 20%.

51:33Etienne FontanNot many people are going to hit those numbers. No.

51:37Speaker4% to 5% fresh frozen. Like Sam, when he was talking three years ago, Those low percentages, four or five percent, he's talking fresh frozen, which four or five percent is like 16 to 20 percent dry yield. Yep. When Sam's saying three percent, he's talking dry yield. I start with dry plants, correct. And I get rid of all the crap and all the crap and all the crap.

52:08SpeakerSo finally, all that's left is little resin heads. And I never have more than two or three percent. Yeah.

52:16Collin PalmerMakes sense. Good company. That's good company. 8% is hard to accomplish all the time. 8% is like, you know, if you're hitting 8%, that's a really amazing place to be, you know, hone in on whatever varietals and parent stock that's doing that.

52:31SpeakerThe GMO root beer, man, I'm telling you, guys, this shit is fucking fire. I'll have test numbers on all the varieties here in a few days, but it's tapping that for sure. I don't like GMO players. Well, fair enough. They're weird. Oh, that's a joke. Don't you get it?

52:47KevinGMO plants. Hey, since we're talking numbers and yields, Kevin and I have been working at 800 for the last probably like 18 months selling fresh frozen in the market, pretty much being a broker to the fresh frozen. And, you know, what we saw was Disappointment, sadness, anger, deceit, you know, bad stuff going on. What you saw was farmers that had these ingenuitive cats that would come in, logistics guys that would come in with reefer trucks, and they had the grand old idea of, you know what, we're going to come in here, we can use your staff, we're going to harvest and freeze all this.

53:28KevinAnd when we freeze it, you can get your harvest, you can get your next row going, and we're going to sell it all to the hash makers. Well, we all know that specific cultivars are good for hash making, not just everything. So they kind of duped a lot of the farmers into thinking that this was the way to do it. What happens then is the stuff's not selling.

53:48KevinThe reefer truck sitting there on the farmer's land at 1600 bucks a month. All the profit starts to get eaten away. And then the farmers literally has a bunch of fucking material that the reefer truck leaves and they have to either drop the price to the point where they didn't make anything and lost a bunch of money. So we saw this everywhere. And the other thing we saw as hash consumers was that it was the same fucking 16 to 22 strains And then these assholes started to fuck us again because they started taking the same 16 to 22 strains and mixing the melt and pressing that and calling it a modified and making a new skew, which is good for business, but shitty for my fucking receptors.

54:29KevinSo.

54:29Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, Addison, I'm going to ask a question. So what you say about hashing is certainly true, I think, with cultivars, but not necessarily extends over to solvent based And so, as you know, there's an incredible market for fresh frozen in for solvent based extracts, especially in Cali. I mean, just the way that it doesn't really, it's most productions not based on vertical integration where you have control of the grow.

55:01Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd certainly if you're making, if you're making live resin, And you're doing fresh frozen extraction, just like with ash. You can't make a good extract out of bad starting material, right? You can certainly turn good starting material into a bad extract, but not the other way around. So I think that the pressure on those growers now is that, you know, they can easily dump that stuff. Um, probably at a much lower cost, higher volumes to the guys who are just buying it and extracting it as much as they possibly can to make sauce and diamonds on the solvent side.

55:44KevinAnd they, and they do. And from what we're talking about within that 18 month period, we saw that there was some, you know, we'll call them bottom feeders, like guys that didn't give a shit and they would buy it up. But even the BHO guys were only getting 1.8%. So you're talking about shit material. And what it was was now this system was concentrating shit material that was then trying to be sold in the market.

56:07KevinSo we looked at that and we're like, this is kind of fucked up. We're lucky enough that a lot of our friends are big breeders. So we would go and be with our buddies and we'd be smoking hash and they would have this fucking strain or something and they'd be like, oh, this is my blah, blah, blah. And we'd be like, well, how come this isn't in the hash market?

56:25KevinAnd this happened multiple times that, oh, well, you know, I put it out and 710 grabbed it and they do it in like limited runs. But that's like the only big, you know, guy that grabbed it and it's out there. And we were just like, what the fuck is wrong with you? And then we realized, oh, you're a breeder, not a marketer. You're a breeder, not a this.

56:43KevinYou're a breeder, not a that. And so your focus is to breed, to just be in there making genetics and love your life in that place. And so we were like, OK, it's our job to now figure out how to fix this. So we went to those breeders and said, listen, I've got a network of a hundred you know of uh 36 40 something farms that are going to be able to produce this you know these specific cultivars that you have that are hash specific solventless specific we can get those into production if we get them into the washrooms and we can help popularize the strains would you be willing to just take these genetics whatever you have that you think are right and give them to us And we'll make sure that your name is, you know, recognized the whole time and that there's integrity in what we do with the with the farms that we work with.

57:28KevinSo we got breeders to agree to that. We then went and we know we knew that we needed an actual nursery. So we went and found a nursery. We have about right now we have seven or eight breeders. We got about 40, 45 or 46 strains that are all brand new for solventless hash, according to the breeder. And they're all producing at least at four percent. So that's kind of the prerequisite is that it has to produce at least 15% THC dried weight and it has to be at least a 4% to get into pipeline as a brand new strain that's going to come in from a breeder.

58:04KevinNow what we did was we also realized that we had to figure out how to take the plant material from the farm Brandon Krenzler, Brandon Krenzler, Brandon Krenzler,

58:34KevinAaron Wiggins, The list of strains to and the harvest dates. Once we do that, the guys that are that are buying, they can look at that list based on strains or cultivars and say, oh, these are coming down on these dates. Let me set up my test washes on that date. And we've been doing this over the last two months and orchestrating this. And it's been perfect.

58:53KevinThe test washes. So if we have a lab that test washes with us. If they like the product, they get first right to refuse it. So we're moving through 2,000, 3,000 pounds of material at a time. The farmer's stoked because we're like, hey, pull the leaves 12 hours before, then come in, apply this, this pull, you know, this harvest bucking method, make sure that they're frozen and stored this way.

59:15KevinSo this whole entire thing is all done specifically for the process. Because now if we do it that way, we can advertise to the, to the makers, hey, We followed all these protocols and SOPs. We're using these strains. Here's the harvest dates. And this thing is knocking off now, doing so well that we already have guys that we went to and pitched it to that were so stoned that they came back and pitched it to us, which I think is awesome.

59:42KevinAnd, you know, we had to remind them that, look, we built this in a way where you can't really do this without the relationship with the breeders, without the relationship with a really great nursery that you can trust, and without the relationship then with existing makers that you're already selling material to. And a lot of these guys that are trying to copy us are the guys, the logistics guys that came in and fucked everybody the last couple of years.

1:00:04KevinSo we just like we approach it with loving kindness. We approach it with logic and we just look at it and say very selfishly, how the fuck do we make it so that there's better strains for us to smoke hash? That was really the selfish approach to it. And then we figured it would be clear. And it has.

1:00:21SpeakerTo be clear, you're talking about clones, yes, not seeds. Seeds. Seeds, from seed. Well, there's got to be variation. There is. Yeah, there will be some.

1:00:36KevinSo that's why the nursery partner that we have, we selected a very specific nursery partner that's very good at propagation and very good at communication so we can have them work directly with the breeder Aaron Wiggins, That bread it and help them understand what characteristics they're looking for through the process. Aaron Wiggins, And that's that it took a long time it took a lot of looking, but we did find a partner that's willing to take the genetics, but then we also have a very rich scene in California with tissue culture.

1:01:05KevinSo we have access to the genetics in clone form that we can tissue culture and bring those lablets in and be able to also then use the specific strain that the breeder's talking about, the actual one that they selected. But it's also fun for the nursery to be able to get in there and open it up and see because they may see one that's a great flower version.

1:01:28KevinThey may see one that's a great hash version. And that's why we want to start defining things differently that way.

1:01:35SpeakerI'm in favor of clonal production. I mean, I'm a seed guy. That's the honest truth. But what I do is I grow thousands of seeds to select out the one or two that I want to clone. So, you know, I don't use clones for production per se. Clones are the way, not seedlings, because seedlings are just too variable. And that's both good and bad for the reason you're saying.

1:02:05SpeakerAnd that's why we have the guys that we're working with at the nursery.

1:02:14KevinThey're very good at doing selection. They do selection with compound. They do selection with some really big guys. And they've got an eye for it. They know what they're doing. And they They tend to be able to lean a little more toward hash as well. So we figure some of it will come through in clone form, because some of it's rare. They don't have it in seed form yet, or they haven't produced it that way.

1:02:37KevinAnd there's different ways, but we look at it as if we're able to give these great guys at the nursery, these great growers, the ability to pop the beans and find what's in there, then it's a good start. At least it's going to give us a strain. Chris Brown, Or a cultivar that we can narrow down on and run test washed. And hey, if the test wash come back and it's at 5, 6, 7%, we got a winner.

1:03:03KevinWhat's crazy about what's going on now that we're seeing, we just watched Taylor, T. Dizzle, we watched him, you know, start a brand new seed company that he's been working on for the last two and a half years. And out of the seeds that he bred, he started to put out test batches that went out that are now coming back and guys have had time to mess with them.

1:03:23KevinThere's one of them called Twins, which is fully purple, you know, coming out at 7% yield. And they have other ones that are in there that are up at 11% yield for a solventless. So, I mean, these guys are able to, and they're doing these, what he's doing is he's making crosses with his Shallot Shashini and his Fofana. And both of those are base as what he's using for progenitors for hash breeding.

1:03:51KevinThe Shallot Shishimi is a GMO cross. The Fofana is a banana cross. Which are both, you know, well known for dumping heavy, heavy snow. So what he did was is created cross, crossbred and created some versions of those that he then bred in and did what you're saying, you know, did a thousand crosses.

1:04:11SpeakerIt's not so easy, believe me. I've been breeding for resin longer than anybody I know, but... For example, two of the easiest ones to drop resin after you dry the plants is Sleeve Stack from DNA Boys and Skunk No. 1 from me. I made a hybrid between the two. In fact, I made a bunch of them. And none of them dropped resin as easy. It goes counter what you would think, but that's the way it was.

1:04:43KevinYeah. And I think when you get a great We have a great breeder and a great grower and a great hash maker in one person. They can see all those things, but it takes so long for those guys to be able to put stuff out sometimes. What we're trying to do is accelerate that process by getting a lot, you know, this nursery that we're talking about, this group that we're talking about, they're $150 million company.

1:05:06KevinChris Brown, But they're owned by a Mendo grower a single guy that's a Mendo grower that that you can hang out with and talk with and he's and he's also a generational strawberry and tomato farmer. Chris Brown, So what this guy is able to do what i've seen in terms of quality control on a large scale. You know, understanding what steep hill and quality control and testing.

1:05:29KevinWhat this guy is able to do, I've never seen anyone do. I've seen.

1:05:32SpeakerWas he a strawberry grower or a strawberry breeder?

1:05:36KevinHe was a strawberry grower with with generational family members that were breeders of both tomatoes and strawberries.

1:05:44SpeakerYeah, because strawberries are so similar to cannabis with strawberries. You started twenty thousand seeds or more and you select out the maybe the ten best. For whatever criteria that you're interested in selecting for. And then you use that, both selections, maybe to breed one step further. Then what you do is you make runners. You basically clone it. And that's what you deliver to the strawberry farmers, the runners, the clones.

1:06:16KevinYeah, this guy's very impressive, man. We're pretty selective on who we would even work with. And we were looking with and talking with a number of big nurseries. And what we like about him is that he owns the whole thing himself. He has one partner who's a big tech guy that handles a lot of the tech end of everything. And then Tristan handles all of the grow.

1:06:40KevinWe've met his entire staff. We love the vibe of everyone. So we trust them. And the idea again is to get them, to put them in a position where they're in a well enough relationship with the breeders and pipeline that we're able to get that information to them and do some selection and get to see what that selection delivers. But we also have a lot of clones That have come from the breeders as well that have gone into tissue culture.

1:07:03KevinAnd we have lablets of those in original format that are proven for genetic stuff that they've done. A lot of these guys, they breed stuff and they don't put it out. It only stays to themselves or in their small circle. So we've got them to give us the clones now and we can start popularizing their genetics if they're hash dumpers. And it's working. It's actually doing really well.

1:07:23KevinIt's in phase one now. What we've done in phase one is we've gone to the farm and the nursery that we're working with. We as hash guys have reviewed their lists of genetics that they have. And also recognize that they work with some really big breeders in the state. They're very close with Compound. They're really close with a couple other guys. So we know that they're in it.

1:07:44KevinThey know what they're doing. And phase one is to look at the genetics that they have. And we're starting to do that harvest scheduling based on the genetics that they have. And we found some, you know, we just found some really amazing grease monkey. We just found some really great Sunday driver. And what I mean by found is we are able to get a hold of the plant.

1:08:04KevinWe're able to do a test wash on it. That Sunday driver came back, I think, at four and a half, 4.48%. The Sunday driver, the Grease Monkey, was it Grease Monkey? It was 4.48%. And the Sunday driver was 3.8%.

1:08:22Dr Mark ScialdoneSo by finding- Those are gravimetric isolated yields of hash you're talking about, correct?

1:08:29KevinIt's a fresh frozen, yeah. So from fresh frozen to the dried material.

1:08:35Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what would those, if you tested those plants and got a COA based on dried plant material, what would they analyze for in terms of total cannabinoid content?

1:08:49KevinAnd the dry weight for most stuff here in California, the highest you ever see is maybe up to 20, you know, in a concentrate or in a flower.

1:08:59Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, no, I'm just trying to qualify like the potency of that material versus what you would normally see on a COA for dried flower.

1:09:10KevinOh, it's going to be, you know, the dried flower, like we said, is roughly most of the time in California, you're about 15 to 22% THC. Realiztically, a lot of guys here like to take THCA, THC, and some other THC and add it up and say that their stuff is 30% THC, which is total bullshit. I mean, in my experience...

1:09:29SpeakerWait, wait, wait. You can have cannabis that's 30% THC. You absolutely can. Delta 9 THC? Absolutely.

1:09:38KevinEspecially in the acid. Especially in the acid form. Because it's a little bit heavier. You're talking about THCA. You're not talking about THC. I'm talking about Delta 9. Either and or. I've looked at more cannabis testing data than any other person in the United States. Easily. I've looked at more.

1:09:58SpeakerHonestly, I have my doubts. I've scoured more than anybody else. I've... I've had my own lab for the last 30 plus years. How many samples have you run? Thousands and thousands.

1:10:14KevinWe were breeders. We've done, at Steep Hill in one year, we've done over, I'd say 150,000 runs. At one location. Who's doing the analysis for you, 150,000?

1:10:26SpeakerThe final analysis? Paul Daly.

1:10:34SpeakerAnd what lab is that? That's steep hill.

1:10:42KevinSo when it comes to data, I've looked at the data, I've seen it. You're telling me now that if I had a gram of that dried flower in my hand, 30% of that gram of dried flower in my hand is pure THC.

1:10:55SpeakerWell, actually, the highest that I've ever run in myself was 29.6.

1:11:00KevinOf dried, of Delta 9 THC.

1:11:04SpeakerDried material, and it was Delta 9 THC, not THCA because I ran it on my DC.

1:11:12Dr Mark Scialdone30% THC would equate to 38.5% THCA.

1:11:22Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd yeah, I call bullshit on that. You can't have plant material. I mean, if you're plucking the top of your colas and you're testing nothing else and there's no other stem material in there because any non-tricone producing material is going to dilute that. But in a typical biomass sample, what you would do is you would, and ATN knows this because I'm sure he sees this all the time in his purchasing, is that there are sampling protocols for basically sampling large Some cannabis for an accurate COA that then ATN's price on that material is based on.

1:12:01SpeakerI understand all of this, Mark. I've been doing this a really long time. But what we did was we used a sample that was heavily manicured the way it would be as a consumer would smoke. So it wasn't unmanicured. It was very manicured. But it was 29.6% THC.

1:12:24Etienne FontanThat is rare, Sam. And I have to say, we are not seeing anything like that.

1:12:29SpeakerThat's why I'm mentioning it. No, no, no, no, no. I understand. It's the highest I've ever seen. Most of mine was in the range of 22, 25 was high. Mm-hmm.

1:12:39Etienne FontanYeah, for you, I would say you would probably be the only one. But for us on the ground in the market, we do not see that here on the ground. We have never seen close to that. We have people come up and say that. We've seen laboratories that aren't reputable spike samples in that. We even saw in the categories when I did the Emerald Cup how they were actually mixing in The live rosin, et cetera, to try to spike the numbers.

1:13:09Etienne FontanSo they hit certain THC ranges. So it is happening. There's manipulation in the scene. But at the same time, I just got to give a shout out. Addison, proud of you, really proud of you because you're one of the OGs in the sense of what California, for those who don't know, Addison had one of the early dispensaries, got busted, fought the system. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:13:49Etienne FontanYou've seen rare air, Sam, and we on the ground do not see anything close to that rare. We're lucky to see the 20% besides the 22 to 25. You know what I'm saying? That's more common to see in the under 20 than you're going to see anything over 20, unless I'm mistaken, Addison.

1:14:08SpeakerYeah, when I tested all the samples that were entered into the High Times Cannabis Cup here in the Netherlands, which I did each year, Yeah, they seldom were 20, 22, maybe one or two were 25, maybe. But there was no 29.6% there.

1:14:30Etienne FontanWhat varietal was that 29%?

1:14:32SpeakerAnd it was Thunderfuck.

1:14:38Etienne FontanMetanuskin Thunderfuck? Yep, that's the one.

1:14:42KevinYou know what? Wow. You know what, ATN? When we first started and we first got into everything, we learned pretty quickly that Sigma Aldrich's standards are trash and that they weren't correct. And here's, you know, Sigma fucking Aldrich, right? You're like, come on. And then when you got to... Not only Sigma Aldrich, it's also...

1:15:04SpeakerIf you...

1:15:07Dr Mark ScialdoneThey buy them. Sigma Aldrich is just a middleman. They don't make anything. They just have a chemical warehouse and shuffle around one purchase order from one client to another. So you're buying basically the quality of what came in and other people are able to produce. Yeah, Addison, that's not a problem today. I mean, as you know, you need a DEA license to basically delve out those standards.

1:15:32Dr Mark ScialdoneSo those standards cost an awful lot of money. They do end up spoiling, especially the cannabinoid acid standards. They're only good for like, I don't know, I think they're good for just a couple of months and you have to keep them frozen. But the whole deal with that is that, you know, again, the fact that they need a schedule one license to hand out those standards, it's like, oh, you know, We're not handling nuclear waste.

1:15:55Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're just handling pure compounds here. But it's an unnecessary tax, just like the tax on 200 proof ethanol that handicaps The industry just like 280E and all that other bullshit.

1:16:11SpeakerYou are correct about the problem with getting analytical samples. When we set up our lab 30 years ago, what we did was we got our standards both from Geneva United Nations drug and we got them from Sigma also and one other place I forget. But what we did was we sent the sample to Dr. Mishulam We sent the sample to Dr. Brandeisen and Dr. El Soleil. And all four of our results came back, we felt pretty good, except that the results were 88% instead of 99.

1:16:53Etienne FontanHey, Sam, just turn away from your mic slightly. You're breathing directly into your mic. Okay, I'm sorry.

1:17:01KevinYeah, it's interesting how we eventually got to the point where we were just making standards because we couldn't trust what we were getting. We were just using a preptative HPLC and just making our own shit at that point. What's funny is Sigma Aldrich is one of the best places to buy LSD from. So if you go to Sigma Aldrich, you can get their standard for LSD and just eat it and get lit.

1:17:23KevinIt's actually a really fucking cool trick that you can pull. So anybody who has access, Sigma Aldridge has some pretty dope LSD.

1:17:32Dr Mark ScialdoneI speak from experience. You got to fill out a pretty extensive questionnaire before you get an account with Sigma Aldridge to make sure that you're licensed to handle anything that you get from them. And if they smell anything fishy, you can't buy from Sigma Aldridge. But there's plenty of chemical vendors. I mean, you can go up to Amazon these days and buy chemicals. So, I mean, there's lots of places that you can buy, you know, stuff from.

1:18:00SpeakerAlso, Mark, Sigma sold to me with no problem, so they ate that clever.

1:18:06KevinYeah, they sold to Steve, though. We didn't know what the fuck we were doing in the beginning.

1:18:09Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, now they're pretty careful. I've had to I've had to get re-approved and approved and re-approved again with them.

1:18:17SpeakerYeah, well, you're on a special list, Mark. Let's be honest.

1:18:21Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, exactly. There's a company that actually sells the columns that are widely used in the Shimazu system. So a company called ResTech up here in Belfont, Pennsylvania, has a Schedule 1 license and their standards are right on the fucking money. And I've had to rely on their standards now. For machines for several labs. And so ResTech, R-E-S-T-E-K. And their Raptor column is one of the best columns that's out there for doing reverse phase analysis.

1:18:54SpeakerThere's also several companies in Europe that will, and in Europe, the only thing that's controlled is THC-9 and Delta-8. Everything else is available. Including THCP.

1:19:16KevinThat's it. That's very interesting. What's odd, too, is that we ended up getting standards from El Soli and then I think we settled on what you were just saying. We ended up just getting them from DigiPath. Or no, from... ResTech. ResTech, yeah. It's kind of where they've gone at this point. And to be honest with everyone, I had a great time at Steep Hill. I learned so much.

1:19:40KevinIt was a great opportunity. It was really something that like... It was training that allowed me to... Thank you so much for joining us.

1:20:00KevinEvery one of the organic chem schedules you can get because we had PhDs there. And oddly enough, I was their boss, which was fucking weird. And I just absorbed all that information and learned so much. I got educated on it. I think testing is great. I just think right now in our industry, the testing industry is just rampant with bullshit. It's you're trying to fit and monetize a business.

1:20:23SpeakerI would agree with you that and a couple of simple facts that Okay, the stuff that tested the highest, both the 28, 29.6 one and the other ones that were even 25 or something. They weren't the preferred smoke of people. People liked the stuff that was really terpene rich and had a really loud flavor and had the right effects. That's what they wanted.

1:20:53Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, first, PLC works, you'll know that there can be very subtle changes in the method used to make the sample that can give you very vastly different results. And so it's it's probably more about sample prep And the individual operator that's running the HPLC other than the machine itself, the machine is basically going to read the concentration of the sample that you put in there. But if the tech is not knowledgeable enough on how to make a sample and how to do a reproducible measurement, And make sure that sample is run on a machine that's properly calibrated and their baseline is nice and flat and doesn't like to drop off a cliff at the end.

1:21:41Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd they're not just running some quick method. I mean, HPLC can be very, very accurate. And what I will say is that I'm actually on the other side of the coin, Addison. I think the testing industry on the cannabis side has come Steve Sorenson, MD, A long way in the last handful of years compared to where it was, say like four or five years ago, where, yeah, you send a similar sample to 10 different labs and you're going to get 10 different results because everyone runs a different method.

1:22:13Dr Mark ScialdoneI think there's been a lot more standardization. You know, I sit on that group of people at ASTM that's trying to standardize a set of And there's a lot of, you know, cooks in the kitchen on that. But ultimately at the end of the day, there are very reliable methods for quantifying cannabinoids in cannabis. Now I say that with the exclusion of Delta-8, because what we learned from Delta-8 is that the byproducts that are present in Delta-8 that's made from CBD are not baseline resolved by HPLC.

1:22:46Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd there needs to be a GC measurement to basically look at The purity of D8 that's derived from CBD. And so the folks at KCA Labs are actually working on that. And so, yeah, Addison, definitely like Steep Hill was one of the first, you know, labs that sort of, you know, carry the flag of we really need to do standardized good measurements. There's a lot of innovation and a lot of people who have basically entered The testing industry.

1:23:18Dr Mark ScialdoneI do a lot of testing now, Sam. I don't know how much testing you do lately.

1:23:23SpeakerNo, I don't do nothing anymore.

1:23:25Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd what I can tell you is when I send samples to five or six different labs, I see correlation of results. I see that labs are actually getting their acts together. And when I send one sample to a lab and I get one measurement, I can basically predict that measurement based on the only PLC measurement that we've made in our own lab. And so the last thing I'll say is that I think the more and more testing happens, the more and more weak sisters are going to be knocked out because producers have to rely on getting a good COA so their product is sellable.

1:24:01Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd if their COA is not good, that means they can't sell their product. So there are relationships that are starting to stratify between producers and testing labs in the industry because They're getting more reproducible results. They're selling more product. And I think that the needle is moving closer to actually characterizing these samples more accurately than they were, say, just three or four or five years ago.

1:24:30SpeakerYou're right, Mark. And it's even more than that, because the industry only started in 2008.

1:24:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, right?

1:24:40Dr Mark ScialdoneThe fact is, is that there's nothing unique about cannabis that makes it different than some of the other foods that we eat. And if you look at any food product or any FDA label required, you can see that there are labs like Eurofins and other labs that basically do measurements of food, you know, products all the time. And part of that is not only, you know, just the standard regulation, but It's just also, you know, part of the marketing thing, you know, and, you know, Addison, what I would say too, you know, is again, you know, like I think that where you guys were in, in assessing that there needed to be a testing industry parallel with the producing of cannabis products.

1:25:27Dr Mark ScialdoneI think that's where the vision was. I mean, it's like, you can't just produce stuff. And not have third-party testing. You have to produce it and then you have to throw it over the fence to a lab that's hopefully certified. And that means that their HPLCs are all appropriately calibrated and they've hired good people to run those HPLCs. So the results you're going to get are actually meaningful.

1:25:52Dr Mark ScialdoneHopefully that loop is becoming more and more productive. And we could ask ATN because ATN's business is basically We are a catalyst for that loop between producers and testing labs to produce products that are legal and compliant under the law.

1:26:13KevinThe biggest problem is accurate labs, and I'll explain why. The more accurate that a lab is, the better that they're going to reveal The issues that growers are having and getting their potency up. Now, ATN will tell you this. If a lab, if the growers will shop their product to different labs to get the highest THC percentage so that it sells better, they'll run the same sample at five different labs.

1:26:39KevinAnd when they find that lab, that's a little loosey goosey that bumps the higher numbers, that's their fucking lab. And when you're selecting based on that, There's a problem with the system itself. It's not regulated enough on the laboratory side to make sure that they know what they're doing. The main problem there is the BCC in California doesn't know what the fuck cannabis testing is. So you've got people in there that don't know what they're doing.

1:27:04KevinWhen those guys are the ones that are setting the rule, it creates this environment. And that's our environment right now. The more accurate you are, when I talk to labs, they're like, the more accurate that we are, the less customers we have. When we send them the test result, Right that's the lowest of of of their stuff and they tell them this the the the company tells the lab oh man we love you guys you have great pricing but we can't you i mean the test results come back fast everything's good but you're everything we run with you guys is low and then these guys they take a little longer to get it back but we get higher numbers there so they're they're there's a system that allows

1:27:44SpeakerIn Washington, that happened, and they actually called it out. They closed down. One whole lab was running like 80% of the state. Every single lab in Oregon went away, pretty much.

1:27:58KevinIt's hard, guys.

1:27:59Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's very expensive. And in Canada, we just went to the Unicorn Cup here. You're in the Coon area of British Columbia last week, and I'm talking to Hatch Labs over in Calgary, and they're talking about they have to fit into percent THC on your rosin in order to have it available to the market. And if you don't fit, if you make, so they have to buy the herb from a producer in faith, Then bring it to their laboratory, wash it, and then find a lab.

1:28:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd maybe it's the one lab they work with and it has to fit within that threshold window. So everything that you're saying is unbelievably disheartening to a family farmer or a family grower. You know, maybe if you have like an investor business that you can just fold and start a new one, you know, it might be okay to You know, play in that game. But a lot of the breeders you're talking about, Addison and California, are family farm breeders, and they can't just fold up because of that.

1:29:05Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd it's the same here in the Kootenays and British Columbia. So, you know, I would appreciate less regulation on us if they don't have a system that's viable for us to play in, because otherwise it's just, ah, it's that. It's a waste of energy.

1:29:22Etienne FontanWell, and again, you're only dealing with this snapshot in time. And this is also the problem I have with California cannabis is because once you have that snapshot in time, you have a year to get rid of that product. And of course, what we're seeing now is we're about to see a huge glut here in California. We're seeing prices plummet from last year's harvest because it's now harvest season.

1:29:45Etienne FontanWe hadn't seen this type of event. We saw it with Oregon, but it was right after they harvested. Now we're seeing the opposite end in the sense here in California is that we now have so much now old cannabis to it's a snapshot of that cannabis in that form, not how it actually comes in that form. So even in the form that it's tested, that doesn't mean that that's what I'm selling it at in the dispensary, because even this wonderful, you know, water hash, et cetera, that I get.

1:30:15Etienne FontanWe're going to take a short break and we'll be right back.

1:30:34Etienne FontanIt doesn't actually degrade, you know, and they're definitely not doing that at the concentrate level, no way, shape or form to actually stabilize the product. So even the system itself is kind of bullshit because you're only dealing with that snapshot in time when that particular representative sample was tested, not what the actual person is receiving at the time of their purchasing, which is the real market and the real reality.

1:30:58Etienne FontanAnd a big problem then it goes beyond just the, you know, the testing and the instability of testing. You know, it's the also maintaining that product consistently through the distribution centers and points all the way till it gets to the individual person at the counter. And that's a huge problem and issue that's being ignored.

1:31:19SpeakerYeah, it happens. All these things that you guys have discussed have happened, are happening here in Canada as well. Like people with their fresh frozen crops in containers paying $1,700 a month and they still have last year's crops. That's still fresh frozen. That's going on. We have labs that are pumping numbers and giving people better numbers than other labs. We have a whole situation where we have industry of people selling produce that doesn't realize it's produce.

1:31:46SpeakerAnd it's like, first question, is your vault cooled? Oh man. I'm like, oh, so all of your terpenes are currently off gassing in your vault right now. And you're representing companies. That are only in the 1 to 1.5 terpene range in the first place instead of the 3 to 5 exceptional range. So you don't have any movement. You have no movement. You need to keep this shit cold.

1:32:07SpeakerI was telling people in the prairies, dude, build a fucking tunnel through the center of your building that goes into your vault and pull the minus 40 degree Canadian air out of there into your vault because To keep all of this stuff at room temperature is absolutely batshit. Can you imagine, hey, Addison, I'm going to send you a container of spinach, but I'm not going to be cooling it.

1:32:31SpeakerIt would get to Addison and it would be liquid. We're in the produce business here. Right. Yeah. And I think Marcus is bringing up a really good point into what ATN and also Dr. Mark was talking about. And all of us really, I think, like, From a formulation standpoint, it's really important to have this snapshot, but that snapshot is really limited. So there's only so much is telling me.

1:32:55SpeakerSo I can only, you know, be so educated to make products that are based on a system that yes, to ATN's point is inherently broken. Mark's, you know, working really hard behind the scenes to try to fill those holes and try to fix it. But then we have the responsibility of everyone else, including ourselves for supply chain, which Mark has just outlined, which is super important because once it leaves our hands, it's really up to everyone else now to then have that same care and compassion.

1:33:26SpeakerTo make sure that these chemicals or these products, I should say, and SKUs are put in the particular patient's hands as we are intended them to be, which seems to be like walking on the moon these days. You know, I think it's important that, you know, if we can just agree on something at the testing level, I think that would really help. And then again, then I think we should hold people to accountability on the supply chain aspect.

1:33:56SpeakerIf you don't have a freezer and you're, you know, a distribution center, maybe, you know, there should be fines for that. You know, maybe there should be some consequences for these people that are not taking The care that you are. Or it's the advantage, Colin. Look, if we're going to be advantage, right? I always told people, if you want an advantage, freeze your shit, make it cold, make it as cold as possible.

1:34:21SpeakerSome of it won't be able to be frozen. You'll just want to keep it really kind of refrigerator cold. And you're going to have to pay a couple of prices by learning which ones are the right ones to freeze and which ones aren't the right ones to freeze. And so, yeah, but people are going to have to get on it.

1:34:39KevinI mean, supply chain's critical. And I think in every part of this business, like the reason why we got into the fresh frozen, I'll explain it right now. You know, the one price that hasn't changed in two years in California, the price of a fucking fresh frozen pound, they go from 85 to 200 bucks, depending on their viability. That hasn't changed. Everything else around it changes. Everything changes except for that price.

1:35:03KevinAnd when we saw that, we were just like, You know, wait a minute. I can still go to a grower and go, hey, look, I can get you nine hundred and fifty bucks for, you know, for the for the two thousand and eight grams or whatever the hell we need. And a lot of guys, you know, when we go into these grows and talk to them, if we're if we're offering a farm sixty dollars a pound for wet material, they're profiting, they're making money.

1:35:30KevinThey're making money because they're not having to dry it. They're making money because it's out of there very quickly. And that model works. Now, if they're getting 60 and we're able to sell it for 85, there's room for us to do that with our partners. If they're getting 60 and we're able to sell it for 200, there's even more. So we give them more than 60. We now bring them up with us and say, hey, here's how you can get $80 a pound wet.

1:35:57KevinAnd you add up those 80 pounds, those 580, you know, wet pounds, they equal more than what you'd get for a dry pound. When you start showing that and you show that model and you understand the supply chain that way, that's where you want to be. And that's where hash is. That's the only thing in our business that's doing it right now is that. And that's the only place that it's left.

1:36:19KevinNow, BHO, there's room in BHO at the highest end of the market. Aaron Wiggins, At the diamond end of the market, but there's only room at the highest end of the market for VHL. There's no other room at the bottom. You got to see where the room is and then be able to do it. And it's like, you know, a maker can buy frozen pounds at $200 wet and put them out and sell them.

1:36:42KevinAnd still make really great money. They don't know that or understand it. They're just not educated to the point where they have to trust and commit. And what we've done is introduced the ability to say, hey, on those 2,000 pounds that are in the ground right there, let me apply this model to it and see if it works. It does work. And it'll move more material. What we think is that good work is going to lower the price of hash slowly.

1:37:10KevinAnd make it more affordable. I see BHO as a lower barrier of entry to hash consumption. You know, it costs less. It's easier to get into. And then you'll see guys sort of start to step up their glass game because they start to understand that they have a piece of terpene analysis equipment in front of them. And how do I use that? Oh, what nail do I have?

1:37:29KevinWhat's the surface area and nail? How much air is coming through here? How can I cap that air and control the flow to get it to use my column that I have here to get, you know, it's like You accelerate your understanding to the point where you start to only want to smoke very good rosin because it's easy to clean up or melt because it has a different taste and a different approach.

1:37:52KevinThat's really where, and we know this, we all know this because we're here, we've been doing this, but the public And opening the public up to this and starting to get them into it. There's a lot of profit. There's a lot of money to be made. The biggest problem in our industry is that people don't use their brain and logic to figure out how to work with one another and make things.

1:38:13KevinAnd so we all make money. Everyone wants to crush and everyone wants to control and be there. And it's like what I love about hash is we as a community are starting to teach everybody else collectively, not as a master, We're just as a learning, a learning entity that's moving forward, that if we work together and we approach things in an open source way and we make it so everyone can make money, we can do this for longer and we can do this forever.

1:38:40KevinAnd we all do really fucking well. Like I'm sick and tired of these small growers in California coming out that are wrecked and being like, I'm not making it. I can't make any money. Stop fucking lying, dude. You're selling 50% of your harvest on the black market. You're selling 50% the other way. And you have to look this way in order to continue to do what you do.

1:39:00KevinYou can either go full rec or I honestly, I think do both. I did both. I did one before and I think do both until you get caught, right? Until you get in trouble because that's always been our thing. But look at, there's more fucking material being sold for fresh frozen in California than there is, than there, if you produce all of that fresh frozen into hash, you'd have five times the amount of fucking hash that's being sold.

1:39:28KevinWhose fault is that? It's not my fault. It's the BCC's issue. And honestly, I think a lawyer would be able to prove in court that the BCC is complicit in drug smuggling and because of this reason, for this purpose, because they're the ones that are watching it. If you see the numbers and you just made $887 million on tax,

1:39:50KevinOK, that you're allowing more production to occur, more sale to occur than what's going out into the into the actual dispensary. Then you know where that's going and you're complicit in that. You're actually a part of that. And that's what's happening in our industry.

1:40:03Etienne FontanSo there's a lot. Addison. It's now the DCC. It's the department now. It's being consolidated into one. So it's no longer just BCC. We have to change our nomenclature so people are aware. We're talking about now the Department of Cannabis Control, which we are now currently under 90-day emergency regs.

1:40:24KevinBigger and blinder than ever before.

1:40:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineJust to also just agree with the community aspect. And that's what I love about Rosin. And with the peer certification that we created, you know, we have a lot of farms and also producers in California. And that's been our whole entire model from the beginning was, Thank you so much for joining us today. We're so happy to be here with you. We're so happy to be here with you.

1:40:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're so happy to be here with you.

1:41:11Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe've got a lot of people that are really excited about this. We've got a lot of people that are really excited about this. We've got a lot of people

1:41:31Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut, you know, being able to, you know, have the fresh frozen pounds is also sort of the beginning of starting a product. It's taking it out of the biomass. It's like, you know, having vegetables fresh at the market and getting a penny per pound or a dollar per pound or Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:42:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd Dr. Kim Ron, you know, Steve Pill is just such an amazing mind at the time and just like a freaky hippie. I really loved his depth and his dedication. And also, you know, Reggie Gaudino is also a really amazing person. And, you know, everyone that came out of that and went in different directions is something really valuable. In fact, Dr. Kim Ron would be really interesting to have on here.

1:42:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm not sure if he's where he's at these days, but he's not a doctor at all.

1:42:44Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay. He does not have a PhD, I do not believe. He was a research instructor at one of the local universities, right?

1:42:54KevinHe's at UC Davis. He's actually, he's not a PhD, but I think...

1:43:01KevinYou know what? I don't think he's a PhD, but he was a research instructor with Don, who is a PhD. So Don kind of gets the bulk of the doctor comes in. But Kim Ron is, without question, one of the most brilliant fucking minds. I mean, never mind, just a great dude to hang out with. And when I talked earlier about learning, I learned so much from Kim Ron.

1:43:25KevinI learned so much from Don. Like we would be sitting in my office smoking hash with some of the biggest, you know, hash makers in the country, in this country or in the state. And then I would, we would just be high and we'd be talking about something and we'd knock on the wall and we'd invite Kim Ron in and then Don would come in and then Reggie'd be in there.

1:43:42KevinAnd these weed guys would be asking questions directly. And you were getting this really amazing kind of build of Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman, I think you're right, Mark. I don't think Kim Ron's a doctor per se, but I think he does have a doctorate in something.

1:43:58Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so I think he worked at UC Davis, and I think he was the guy that basically made all the reagents for all the undergrad and graduate laboratories. So he's got an incredible wealth of experience at doing Steve Adubato, Solution Phase Chemistry in terms of like diluting stuff and knowing like what the right strengths are and stuff like that. And yeah, I met him. So Pinsky introduced me to him early on.

1:44:25Dr Mark ScialdoneI think he's like, oh, okay, here's a weed nerd that you can go like talk with and everything. And so we chatted at a I think that, you know, what you guys started there, certainly, I think you guys were maybe a little bit ahead of like where SC was, because I know we've had Alec on here as a church. So the founder and Alec and those guys really know what they're doing.

1:44:55Dr Mark ScialdoneI love their customer interface. You know, when you set up an account at SC, Aaron Ward, It's a, it's an HTML interface. And so you can look at your data in real time and see when it really comes in.

1:45:07KevinAnd so, yeah, there's been a lot of, I think, innovation on the customer service side of testing and, you know, when it comes to, uh, just for your, to, to speak back to your point, SC Labs founder, Josh, Was our chemist at Steep Hill.

1:45:24Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, Josh Werzer, right?

1:45:25KevinYeah, Josh Werzer. We hired Josh Werzer, gave him his first job in cannabis. And then after being with us for about five or six months, he started to slow down the ability for our test results to go out because he had started to found an investor to help work with him to start another lab to compete with us. So Steep Hill was actually the first cannabis testing lab in the United States.

1:45:50KevinYou can go back to a article in the East Bay Express that David Watson wrote, or no, what's his name? David, the journalist. I can't remember his name, but he wrote the first article because everyone always comes to me and they're like, oh, this lab was the first or this lab. And I'm like, listen, when we opened Steep Hill, that was when Paul Daly's guy there that did AMA.

1:46:18Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's that? Were you, were you working with David Lampak? Wasn't he one of the original folks?

1:46:24KevinDavid Lampak and I, I was the head of the Medical Cannabis Association, the director of the Medical Cannabis Association. I just got graded. I had a dispensary in the Central Valley, very Very aggressive area for cannabis at the time. I woke up one morning and I saw an article in the newspaper that said that the city of Oakdale that I lived in was in danger of someone being able to open a dispensary because they didn't have the laws on the books to protect them.

1:46:53KevinAnd by the time I put the fucking newspaper down, I was in the car going over to the city to get a business license for a dispensary. And I got the license. I had the dispensary. The sheriffs came in hard and heavy. I got raided. Rob Rach was my lawyer. He reached out to me and said, hey, I know you're in a pretty fucked up position. You know, the only money I had was from like six pounds of weed I had inside of the inside of the fucking the lawnmower bag, the grass bag of the lawnmower.

1:47:20KevinI had six pounds of weed stashed in there. And that was the only money I had. And I had, I think I had like 35 grand out and that someone owed me. Um, so I took all of that. I was, you know, fucked at that point, um, because I'm getting rated. It was DEA was all this shit. Um, Rob Rach was, Hey, if you want to work, I can give you a job at the medical cannabis association as a director.

1:47:42KevinSo I said, fuck it. You know, I got to turn to activism at this point. Right. I need to get some attention on my case. I got to draw some attention. So went and started working with Rob there as the director. And David Lampak was on the board. David Lampak and I, Rob was like, hey, you guys should brainstorm about finding ways to create revenue for the for the Medical Cannabis Association.

1:48:02KevinMe and Dave sat down. I went up to Dave's farm in Mendocino, met with them. Sat down and kind of just came up with some ideas. One of them was, why don't we introduce quality control to cannabis? And the reason was, is because I had just gotten in an argument with the sheriff Because he was doing a news conference and saying that, you know, cannabis is dangerous because it's tainted.

1:48:23KevinIt could have other drugs in it. So in me and Dave's conversation, I'm like, you know, and this fucking sheriff is saying there's other drugs. And he's like, you know what? There's no other fucking drugs in weed. Like who the fuck gives you other free drugs in your weed? Like that's bullshit, you know? And Dave's like, well, the only way we could prove it is if we did testing.

1:48:40KevinAnd I'm like, oh, so I walk up to the dry erase board and I'm like testing. And that was on the board, you know, and I think I actually have in a phone somewhere, I think I actually have it on one of my computers, that picture of that dry erase board that says testing. It says all these different ideas on it. So when we left there, we kind of just said, hey, you know, let's try to do some testing.

1:49:02KevinI left Dave and said, that's what we need to do. Well, that asshole about five days later calls me up and he says, hey, I got us a space in Emeryville. We're going down to fucking, we're going down to pick a GC up in the bay at the maker. And I think it was, I don't know who our first GC was from, but we go and we literally, yeah, it was Agilent.

1:49:24KevinWe drove down to Agilent and I'm like, what the fuck's going on? He picks me up. I'm in the bay. He picks me up. We drive to Agilent. We pick up this fucking machine. We don't know what the fuck we're doing. He brings me back to the spot that we leased, which ended up being the original steep hill. We brought the machine in. We found a chemist on on craigslist and then lo and behold Etienne and Debbie got involved And what was his name?

1:49:53KevinJohn Gilmore?

1:49:55Etienne FontanYeah. Yeah.

1:49:56KevinJohn Gilmore just put up the money and approached John Gilmore, went to Paul Daly and said, these guys have a good idea. I'll put the money behind it. Would you be willing to help these guys? And Paul Daly, who was working with Sasha Shogun at the time, Paul Daly came over and that's how we met Sasha and Sasha came and they both were like, oh, you guys are sweet little kids.

1:50:21KevinHave a seat. And they sat us down and they looked at all of our shit. And thank you, Etienne, because our numbers were trash. Etienne was paying us to do tests and our numbers were trash, right? So Etienne ultimately seeded Steep Hill. Steve D'Angelo at Harborside seeded Steep Hill. These guys, we didn't know what we were doing. But then once Paul got involved and Paul came in, we had the right equipment.

1:50:46KevinPaul was able to reach out to the rest of the community. At that point, you know, we got everybody involved. I mean, I think every single cannabis chemist of any type at that point were so interested from a Shulam all the way into El Soli. And we had the network to kind of get these guys involved. Every one of those guys got involved. In one way or another, ATN, a lot of people.

1:51:08KevinAnd I always say that it's crazy that Microsoft essentially seeded Steep Hill because the money that John Gilmore made from selling Sun Systems is what funded Steep Hill. We, oddly enough, Microsoft funded the quality control component of cannabis in the entire industry. Like Steep Hill came in.

1:51:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd also the Sasha Shilgan component is very significant. It's so dope. Really cool.

1:51:40KevinI mean, I can't even, I'm more honored to be thanked in those books that Paul wrote. Thank you so much.

1:51:55KevinJust seeing my stupid little name in there as like a shout out of somebody involved, that to me, and it's serendipitous. It's like, how would it have come together? And then after that, when I would take MDA, I'd be like, yeah, you know, like they're molecules. So like all this comes so full circle. And even with the Fresh Rosen thing, even with the Legends thing now, I feel like it's just an energy that's outside of all of it.

1:52:20KevinAnd we all know it. It's the plant. It's feeding us this energy. We're just a conduit to this shit because I don't know where I get the energy to do half this stuff. So it's it's definitely, you know, when I look at we look at the last year, how the fuck did we survive that year and come out to this point where now we can do legends?

1:52:37KevinYou know, and I'm talking to Kevin, who is here with me. You know, we both were sitting here struggling, working our asses off. And then somehow, some way it happens and it clicks and everything's moving and the work that you did before happens. And I mean, I'm just rambling, but this is the plant. This is that compound that made this happen. And it's done it with other compounds because the group of people are compound guys, which is really weird.

1:53:05Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWas Jeffrey Rayburn and Samantha Miller in there? Or is Jeffrey Rayburn and Samantha Miller came after, a little after that?

1:53:13KevinJeffrey came in. So where it went from, it went from from Paul Daly, then Jahan Marku got involved on the micro side because he was at UCSF. So then we were able to expand micro testing. And it was about the about the same time that those aspergillosis patients had died from consuming medical cannabis. And the people that were researching the death went back to the person's house, got the cannabis, tested it, saw that it had aspergillosis and fusarium.

1:53:44KevinAnd then they figured out that that's how the immune deficient patient died. That was one of the things that actually allowed us to get a lot of support from San Francisco Thank you so much for joining us.

1:54:21KevinI thought they were going to hit the chemists with a $10,000 per sample and they were going to wipe the whole thing the fuck out. But luckily for us, they were too focused on other things. And I think that the fact that testing got through, not because of steeple, because of everybody that got involved, you know, SC labs later on, um, You know, Halent, all these guys that got involved.

1:54:41Etienne FontanThe lab I worked with, the lab I worked with stopped working because it was just so risky. Their investors didn't want to take the risks on their six UVA PLCs because they were being leased, et cetera, et cetera. You know how it goes. And that's an ungodly amount of money. So, I mean, I brought Arno over and the, the, The reason that I worked on a suspended solution was because of the $10,000 fine per test.

1:55:07Etienne FontanAnd so we worked with Arno who did the testing solutions for the Dutch government, brought him stateside and worked with our lab after we fired Steve Pill because we weren't happy with the numbers. You know, I worked then with Ethan Russo, helped find me Arno. And then Arno, we worked on actually getting cannabis suspended and 100% alcohol so that now it was a testing solution. So now it was legal to take into a dispensary, I mean, pardon me, into a laboratory and you would no longer be...

1:55:41Etienne FontanSubject to that $10,000 fine per test. So there were mental steps along the way once you took those initial steps that many of us around saw that we needed to fill that are now standards.

1:55:55KevinNo, it took a village, man. It took everybody.

1:55:59Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe were there. We were there. Oh, go ahead, Sam.

1:56:02SpeakerAddison, what was the name of the other lab besides Deep Hill that eventually fused together?

1:56:09KevinYeah, Halen, that's where that's where that's right. Yeah, Halen, that's where Kim, Ron and Don came from, which was sort of a It was built out of UC Davis, which was interesting. They were a UC Davis lab that came in a bit after SC, and they pushed things very far. They were the one main reason why I think the merger with them is what helped Steep Hill survive to the point where it was able to rip off all of the founders and be the company that is now.

1:56:41KevinThat's really... The juice that they had.

1:56:45Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineRight after that was when we started our certification because we started our certification based off the testing that was happening. And one of the early you guys at Steve Pilley did a sleeper study, I believe, where you went out and bought a bunch of pens and a bunch of BHO extracts. And you found one of the original studies where you found out like benzene and Thank you so much for joining us.

1:57:24Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe started it right after that and ours was free because we were farmers and producers and we just recognized that people that were caring for the earth and bringing in living soils and putting their plants into the earth and being a positive impact on it was kind of like the revelation of finding out cannabis was good for you. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:58:00Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDr. Justin Marchegiani, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD,

1:58:18Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI would love for Canada to learn how to get rid of their microbial testing up here and get more towards just human pathogenic testing. And I think that might be one of the things that actually saves the cannabis industry up here in Canada, because you'll be hard pressed to find quality cannabis coming out of any licensed producer in Canada because of the microbial testing that's required, which is even more stringent than when it started.

1:58:47Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo now you have All kinds of different things that they can do. And gamma radiation is one and light therapy is another. And every single one of those things diminishes the terpenes. And the whole entire purpose of this conversation and rosin and everything is how to bring terpenes up. So it's almost like bringing everything up so that we can get smacked in the face with a brick wall.

1:59:10Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo I would love for the intelligence of this community to continue to reach out to people in Canada and to different policymakers as we continue to form our federal legislation or make sure in America, as those federal legislations get formed, that you don't get crushed with the microbial You know, dilemma. But say so, you know, that's just one of the things and one of the things in our in our area, also packaging and trash and all those types of things.

1:59:42Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of regulations in our community.

1:59:46KevinRegulation is tough. It's it's they try to use an approach where, you know, they're protecting the people. But at the same time, it never translates into that. It's always it's always so limiting. I mean, who the fuck in their right mind would limit microbes in a grow room? What the fuck are you doing?

2:00:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThere's tons of biological inputs that you can't use legally in your grow as far as soil inputs too. You have to have everything approved, every single input, which in some cases can be extremely difficult. Things like EM and mycorrhizal fungi and those things for a long time were not allowed over the border. A lot of them are becoming available and are being used and there are some really, Brad Wells, Forward Thinking LPs in Canada doing Brad Wells, Doing work to make it happen.

2:00:41Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo big up to them. And, and so yeah, there's there's been moving forward.

2:00:45KevinAdam Pave, It's important. I mean, I think that, like you said, we're trying to find as much as we can in the plant. Aaron Wiggins, Chiropractic Surgery, Chiropractic Surgery, Chiropractic Surgery, Chiropractic Surgery,

2:01:14KevinYou know, I'm on Instagram all the time just posting stupid shit and just kind of, you know, it's a distraction that allows me to kind of take away from the work and the other stuff. But in the same time, you see people that are so invested that think that our industry is in there. And it's like, if anyone thinks our industry is in Instagram, you're out of your fucking mind.

2:01:32KevinBecause you may see one thing, but for us, what our industry is to me is when I drive up and I'm trying to find my way to this piece of property. And when I get to the property and I get there and I see the greenhouses and I see the plants and I, you know, and you get the tour and you see everything and then you get to the lab tour maybe and you see the material and you're with the people.

2:01:54KevinIt's like, that's what this industry is about. And that's what I love about Legends and I love about what we're going to do. We're going to put those 25 makers with their guests in a room with no fucking phone, no camera. And that to me is like every person I've talked to on the phone that when I call them to tell them about the event, they're like, oh, fuck, thank God.

2:02:14KevinAnd, you know, the only place where we get that nowadays is at a comedy show. Because when you go to a comedy show, they take your phone now because they don't want you filming and showing the person's comedy before they're ready to release it. And I think that by taking that away from it and removing that from it and putting people more in front of each other, it feeds back to like what it is.

2:02:34KevinOur real job, all of us, is to push that message, is to push the message of love and kindness, to push the message of working together, because the more that and of health and people's health, you know, gut health, foot health. All those things. That shit is going to make it so you can keep doing what you're doing for longer. You're going to be here and be able to give these blessings to everybody else.

2:02:56KevinDo you know how many hash makers I talk to now that are like, oh, what's up, bro? I'm just getting ready to go into the gym. We didn't hear that years ago. You know, these guys are biohacking. These guys are working, you know, straight, straight or straight organics just started a whole thing with straight, you know, working out and everything. We're seeing it come into our industry.

2:03:15KevinWe're seeing health become more important. And it's starting to align with what we've always known is that cannabis is healthy. And it's a healthy way of life. And that's like, we're getting to sit in that position. We sit now as cannabis guys, I sit now with like biohackers, dudes that are like, oh, and they know cannabis is good for your health. And those dudes are, you know, making a bunch of splash and a bunch of money.

2:03:38KevinAnd their industries are in line with our industry. We're guys that make that sell compounds. Biohacking guys need compounds, especially the compounds that we have. So we see a crossover between our industry And the health industry on that other level. Then look at the fitness industry. Do you know how many guys we look at and talk to that are that are the top fitness guys in the country and they dab or they use tinctures or they use cannabis or they're using CBD?

2:04:04KevinSo it's all growing.

2:04:08Collin PalmerIt's because it touches the end of the EC, right? It's just, let's face it, it's the same. When you're running, the same receptors are firing off and you're feeling these same exact things and that's why we're drawn to them. And you're right. I think, you know, I've always looked at cannabis as some sort of a biohacking agent. Like you're, you're, you're isolating these compounds and you can put them back together or you can allow the, you know, nature's chemist, as I call it, to kind of guide you and let specific cultivars do it for you.

2:04:41Collin PalmerSo. Totally agree. I think there's a lot to look at and explore in that alone. It's cool to see people excited about cannabinoids and cannabinoid therapy in general. It's been, I mean, I can't imagine what Sam has seen through his time, let alone what we're seeing right now in contemporary times.

2:05:03Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI think weed workouts are key. And I think the ganja has to be Regeneratively grown and healthy to begin with. Otherwise, you know, you're just processing the residue chemicals and that really doesn't serve you. So in moving forward, like health and ganja go together. We also started DEM Pure Athletes. So we have a whole other realm called DEM Pure Athletes where, you know, a lot of You know, top athletes in the world don't really understand nutrition and they don't really understand detoxing.

2:05:39SpeakerSpecifically injury healing. And injury.

2:05:42Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd injury.

2:05:42SpeakerAnd unfortunately, in a lot of professional sports, you can't bring in cannabis because they are still testing THC levels for performance, which is totally ridiculous. But a lot of top athletes are turning towards cannabis during their downtime, knowing that it's going to Thank you for joining us today.

2:06:24SpeakerThey can go and start working on their livelihood, which is absolutely imperative. And I just think it's crazy that so many doctors don't even ask about that fast healing or how they even got there, nor do their sponsors even want to know.

2:06:36Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOr Chinese bone break soup and bone knitting and bone healing together. Bones actually come together pretty fast.

2:06:42SpeakerWhich comes back into the compound of plant medicine, which is exactly what you all are just talking about. I've been listening, but I've been doing a lot of work.

2:06:50KevinWell, how ironic is it that the only sport that allows cannabis now is the most brutal sport that you could be involved in? So the UFC is the only sport that allows you to test positive for THC and you're not banned from the sport. How come? And when I think about it, I'm like, how come? Well, it's a neuroprotectant. Cannabis is a fucking neuroprotectant. It's been proven to be a neuroprotectant.

2:07:18KevinI've had six concussions in my life. From being a professional snowboarder, from being an athlete in my life, six times I've had concussions. My brain shouldn't be working the way that it does. But cannabis as a neuroprotectant is the proof that that's the case. And I think when you look at the NFL's new approach to cannabis, when you look at the NBA's new approach to cannabis, we're talking about big money grabbers, you know, huge money grabbers.

2:07:43Etienne FontanAlso the military. The military, we could be using CBD rich components right after a TBI, a traumatic brain injury, for those who aren't aware, which is a huge component of the most recent wars is the large explosions that cause immediate concussive and huge injuries and costs over time, which if they were given something CBD rich, Right out the gate, like they would give some of the other medications.

2:08:11Etienne FontanLike I was given morphine when I went down. I mean, I think you would see a significant change that we want to see. And so that's one of the thresholds we're pushing for. But that's a different methodology, which I think it may permeate through the private market of an NFL or a UFC before. Unfortunately, it will make that crackle through the veteran situation.

2:08:33KevinBut it's happening and that's where it's going to happen. I think that that's where because if you look at the NBA and you look at China, there's a weird thing going on where the NBA is very popular in China, very popular in Japan and those places. And you look at what Kobe Bryant or what is it, you know, the greatest basketball player in the world got into a weird situation when he was criticizing some stuff.

2:08:56KevinMy point is that when you look at big sports, if big sports start to allow cannabis to come in, that's the acceptance level. That's the breakthrough for the rest of it because there's so much money behind that end of it and that entertainment value. It's happening. That's the point is that we're seeing it and I think we all feel like we're on the cusp of it. Hopefully, we don't get pushed out of it.

2:09:18KevinHopefully, we get recognized and we get to continue to profit from it and live off of it and do well from it. Um, and, and that's my biggest fear is that like, you know, when Johnson and Johnson, uh, decides to compete with us, uh, it becomes a different story, you know, it'll be a different thing, but, um, you know, Hey, if I have to go live in the woods and, and fucking Alaska or something somewhere.

2:09:40KevinSo I can grow and enjoy even a better region and have guns and protect myself. I will, I don't give a fuck. And I think we have enough veterans in our country that will, nothing's gonna change in that way in a sense. I think we're all heading in the right direction, but these are the signs. Like when I saw the UFC make that decision and then I'm watching post-fight conferences and fucking Nate Diaz is smoking joints on the stage, I'm like,

2:10:06Etienne FontanYou have that golden hour once you hit that TPI to actually stop as much damage as you possibly can. So it's really critical that they find or start to create those specific types of point of attack mechanisms specifically with cannabinoids. And I think that's a new frontier. I mean, I'm saying it's most likely through the private scenario, but I mean, the VA is the largest, you know, medical system in the world currently.

2:10:41Etienne FontanSo and, you know, government does hold a patent, you know, so at the same time, there's a lot of big things at play here. And, you know, let's not forget, we still got a lot of work to do.

2:10:53Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd also, you know, one of the forbidden cures in being healthy is the medicinal mushrooms, you know, and it gets talked about and then it gets forgotten about and then talked and forgotten. And then you start realizing, you know, wow, when you put the two, I mean, cordyceps for one was one of the Russian, I think it was the Russian wrestling team or something or the weightlifting team that couldn't be beaten through the 80s.

2:11:16Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd one of their big things was, you know, taking cordyceps and chaga as a daily nutritional supplement. And now put up our mycocannabinoids caps and putting their polypores are for the most part, you know, of course there's tons of people that understand, but the polypore medicine is not written about. It's not a thing that's studied and we're here getting ready for, for, ah,

2:11:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineA lockdown, you know, and we have this magical medicinal compounds in the forest, which they want to fire smart and get rid of all the branches and get rid of the polypores. I feel like I don't know what world I live in right now.

2:12:02SpeakerAnd I think that it's really important, you know, as we're talking about isolating cannabis, we also need to recognize that if we're going to be isolating a lot of things, we could be getting into detriment. So I hear a lot about like isolating, you know, parts of the industry and what the federal government is going to start wanting us to do is not talking to each other, is that the distributor is not talking to the growers.

2:12:25SpeakerThank you so much for joining us today.

2:12:50SpeakerThey had to have the knowing of what was going on with their distributor. They had to know what was going on. And now it's like, yeah, you know, it's going out the door. It doesn't matter where it goes. You don't even have to look at it. And it creates sort of this isolating feeling and a disconnect. Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:13:28SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:13:52SpeakerAnd I just did, I just had my 48th birthday the other day and did 48 pushups in a row while smoking ganja. That's what's up.

2:14:19Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know what I'm saying? Hey, and happy birthday to you, buddy.

2:14:22SpeakerHappy 48th.

2:14:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, and happy birthday to you and getting the kid out and everything and stuff and, you know, just family birthdays going on in your world too. So I just, and also Mike, big up to Mike and his happy birthday. Happy birthday.

2:14:37SpeakerAnd happy belated birthday to Sam. I think it was what, three weeks ago or five weeks ago, Sam?

2:14:48Kevin46 now, Sam?

2:14:49Etienne FontanMine was two weeks ago.

2:14:50SpeakerHappy birthday. Frenchie Cannoli. This is the first hash church we've had Frenchies passing. It would be rough for us to not mention Frenchie Cannoli, a true hash aficionado and lover of hash. You know, I've known Frenchie for quite a few years and bumped into him many times. And he's been on Hash Church. And we kind of saw things a little differently, but we're always able to get together through our love of Hashish.

2:15:19SpeakerAnd it was just nice to see everyone talk so nice about him. And, you know, all the pictures that circulated about of him, I realized I don't even think I have a picture where Frenchie wasn't just like this. Like this with a huge shit-eating grin on his face. That's the biggest smile. And then, you know, I also, I got to speak French with Frenchie because I am French and that's my other language that I speak.

2:15:41SpeakerSo I always had that going with Frenchie that a lot of people didn't really have, which was I could speak his native tongue. So shout out to Frenchie. Anyone else that wants to say beautiful things about Frenchie, of course, please do.

2:15:55Etienne FontanIt was a beautiful ceremony. I was honored by his wife to be asked to speak. And it was hard.

2:16:08Etienne FontanThere's a lot of good people I've met in this movement. And there is very, yeah, he was one of those people who made me smile, made me laugh, always had the most shit eating grin on his face. And as much of his love for cannabis, he had a love for chocolate. So he and I, All of those people would speak and love chocolate. And, you know, I got to ask him my 200 cannabis questions of which a lot of you I'd love to get on at some point and also love to get you on our VAC round tables.

2:16:38Etienne FontanBut, you know, I got to ask him 200 questions about cannabis and just they're all specific and it was just such a fun time and we were went over to get high and we just got so engrossed in the conversation and his wife was recording us so it was very small and intimate and very fun and it wasn't until I was like on 150th question that we're like we should probably get high I think we forgot to get high and you know we sheeshed up and We finally arrived there.

2:17:07Etienne FontanBut from the first time he came and met me, which was over a decade ago, I was one of the first people he came in the Bay and talked to. And he was because of the known of BPG. And I looked at his hash and said, we're not ready for this. The industry is not ready for this. We can't afford this compared to the realities of what we were seeing at the time.

2:17:33Etienne FontanAnd I just kind of gave him the honest lay of the land. And I told him his hash was great. And he always appreciated that. He's like, I always appreciated your honesty. You know, we've all tried the French accent. You know, it is so thick. It is so French. It is so amazing. And every time I even, you know, I'm from Louisiana. I'm Cajun. And I had a hard time hearing him and his French depending was, I mean, I don't know about you, I speak French too, but it was definitely sometimes some words, depending on how they were stated, you were like, what the fuck was that?

2:18:10Etienne FontanTry that in another language.

2:18:11SpeakerYeah, it was certainly not, it was certainly not Quebecois French. It was very, very Francais, Francais.

2:18:18Etienne FontanBut his stories and especially to hear over the years, all the different, his travels were amazing. I mean, the incredible risks that he took. I don't think an American could have gotten away with some of the shit that he did. And it's definitely an ingredient. But he was just an amazing spirit. It hurt to lose him. It still hurts. I will miss him. I will miss him, especially when I don't see him at the Emerald Cup.

2:18:56Etienne FontanAnd I'm going to stop because I'm about to cry.

2:19:01SpeakerYou know, we just did a strain review for the upcoming Skunk Magazine. And we had talked to Kimberly and OCN if we could name an incredible hash strain that we've been working on for about three, four years now after him. And we went on and on about what the name was going to be. And so we're just launching the new strain called Frenchy's Force. It's called Frenchies Forces because he was such a force, such an incredible force of tenacity.

2:19:38SpeakerAnd what I had said, and we were also so incredibly honored. Thank you so much, Kimberly, for allowing us to speak. So honored to speak at his memorial. I feel like Nasty was it, man. When he was coming up to you and he was coming for you, you better have your A game on. You better wipe those, you know, eye boogers out of your eyes. You better blah, blah, blah, because he's coming for you and he's going to be talking about what, you know, you're up to, what we need to do in the future, all the 10 billion things that need to be checked off the list to get the farmers up there, to make sure that the industry was still working.

2:20:17SpeakerTo where it was community built and community monitored and community run. I just, you know, so much incredible love for that entire family and Frenchie. He's going to be missed, you know, every single day. But what he left in his wake is what we can all just hope for. I mean, part of living is dying. And if you could, and if you can die with all of that work seriously being put out to the universal flow and it being circulated to where it's actually regenerative and it's growing new ideas and new bounty and, and it's creating all of this health and wealth and knowledge.

2:20:59SpeakerFor all of us, I just, you know, that's all that we can ever ask for. So, you know, if you only got one life to live, shit, live it like Frenchie, because he just really took every single day. And it's not surprising to me, you know, maybe he did die too young, because every single day was like three days. Every single day, maybe it was like six days, you know?

2:21:23SpeakerThe brother was gone.

2:21:25Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd he also really brought home, you know, that connection to the farmer and the resident, you know? And he always said from the beginning, you know, I cannot do any of this without the farmer. And also bringing in- The resident. And bringing in the Appalachia and terroir and that whole flavor palette, you know, that whole like true connoisseur, you know, way of connecting with the plant and the resin.

2:21:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd, you know, we were really blessed because he All of that really took on the pure certification and the farmers and really recognized, you know, how having a connection with them was like. He came to our hive gathering at Heartwood a couple years ago and he was like, I thought I was coming here for you. I thought I was coming here to just make it awesome and be Frenchie.

2:22:13Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then after the weekend at the hive gathering, he was just like, oh my God, I did this. This is for me. He just felt so... We had some really beautiful conversations with him and he was always ready to rock the boat.

2:22:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd in that, I want to say somehow there was still heart and soul and there was still room for Being wrong. Yeah, being wrong.

2:22:54SpeakerAnd trying to find the right way out.

2:22:56Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd even in his way of being like so steadfast on his path, he even evolved and started using freeze dryers and started using, you know, mechanical separators and all these different things. And even recognizing rosin. So, you know, huge love to Frenchie, you know, for upholding the roots, but also evolving with the community. He was a true legend of hashish.

2:23:19KevinHe was a passionate disruptor, for sure. Like he had such like I remember my my my memories of him are more visual and like he would always he'd have like something rolled up and he'd kind of be leaning in. He'd always be close to you because he always wanted to communicate. And he was just like any time I ever saw him, I didn't know him very well, but we knew each other.

2:23:43KevinBut every any time I ever saw him, he always like came to you. I give you a hug and then you'd see him like float away and do the same thing to every booth in the place with every and like he just shared space and even to like I'd be at the High Times Cup and it would be like I'd see Frenchie or he'd say hello and see this booth and then I'd see him go to like the Payaso Grow guys.

2:24:07KevinWhich are like, you know, like LA gangster grow dudes and shit. And he'd be like, ah, they'd see those dudes. And then I'd see him went to the next booth. And it was just such a person that, that, I mean, his passion. All right, we're going to take a short break.

2:24:40KevinAnd they all know about Temple Balls. And the reason is because he was such an educator. Like the dude was always teaching people all the time. And he would argue with you. You know, mine and his argument was that like, I call everything that's a concentrate hash. I'm like, that's hash. Like they even have a food that's kind of named after it because it's a mix of things.

2:25:04KevinAnd we would have this great argument of stuff. But like, he's just such a beautiful person. And So to finish off, we're going to be doing a moment of silence for Frenchie at the Legends Dinner. We're going to, we've invited Heritage, we've invited his family to come. So it's going to be, it'll be dope. So I'm looking forward to it, but yeah, they'll be involved.

2:25:29Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd big love to Lena, who's carrying on his traditions and, you know, one of his number one helpers. And of course, you know, there's the Dank Duchess, all these other people that have been, you know, a huge part of His realm and have continued on, but, you know, big love to Lena and Kimberly and OCN.

2:25:45KevinYeah.

2:25:48KevinNo, it'll be, it'll be fun. I think it'll be a legends. It'll be great in the sense where we're able to, you know, take a moment to, to, to show him some love, but then also include, include his guys with us there, you know, and, and I hope they win. That'd be great.

2:26:07SpeakerSo much gratitude to that, Addison. Thank you so much for continuing to bring the conversation back to community, to bring the conversation back to the heart center. It's just, it's so important and it's the guiding light here. There's so much gratitude.

2:26:25KevinYeah, it is. Oh, go ahead, Addison. It is hash. That's like, I get that from hash.

2:26:37SpeakerI was just going to shout out Subcool, who is definitely kind of how I heard about first Matt Rise and then eventually Subcool. And Diggity Dank just had written this in the chat room. I hadn't heard of Frenchie until he hooked up with Subcool and Cannabis Aficionado and did the Hunters of the Dank with TC. So, yeah, that was kind of how I heard about Frenchie for the first time was through Subcool, who I had known like really since like, geez, I don't know, Colin, when were we on?

2:27:08SpeakerAndy nine or something.

2:27:12Collin PalmerYeah, I mean, like seven. Can you hear me?

2:27:18SpeakerYeah, yeah, yeah. It was true stoners, right?

2:27:20Collin PalmerYeah, like True Stoners and then also Laughing Moon and then Laughing Moon eventually became Overgrow and, you know, so on and so forth, right? But yeah, I mean, he was like one of the first guys that I think as a breeder that was working with different varieties, I mean, all of his stuff was like just... I mean, not all of it yielded well, but it was like the resume was incredible.

2:27:46Collin PalmerYou know, like all of the resume was just like always really top notch.

2:27:52SpeakerI know it's one of the things I always had to give up the sub and why I always had a good relationship with sub, even as he was kind of having his own internet dramas and all, there was always people like, oh, fuck, I'm cool.

2:28:04Etienne FontanAnd I was like, I don't know, man.

2:28:05SpeakerYou know, I don't have a relationship with them other than the fact when I get together with them, it's resident killer. And every time I run this shit, no matter who grew it, it's also killer.

2:28:15Etienne FontanSubcool was one of the first ones to sell dispensaries seeds, too, in the early days. You know, he was one of the first because earlier on it was clones. I know because I worked for Ed. I was Ed's general manager. I was pushing out 5,000 clones a week. In the Bay Area. So there were no seeds. And it wasn't until I was then finally working at BPG that, you know, people like him actually would come in and actually have seeds or take the chance to come in and actually have seeds available so that people could grow something besides the standard genetics that we had.

2:28:52Etienne FontanAnd as people were talking earlier about Cali Orange, we were the main perpetrators of that genetic in the Bay Area for years. So You know, it was all about getting genetics out. But Subcool was one of the early OGs for us here in the California dispensary scene to get seeded genetics out there because none of the EU seeders were, you know, playing in America or trying to until, you know, decades later.

2:29:22KevinYou know, it was Subcool and it was Bog. Those were the two that I remember you could get in like the dispensaries at the beginning. Yep.

2:29:30SpeakerAnd funny enough, those were two of my first like customers. It was actually high grade who was from Overgrow and he did these bubbler buckets. He was like, like if you were on those sites back then, you knew who high grade was. And in fact, he was my first customer. And afterwards, I think about a year into it, he ended up getting busted and going to jail.

2:29:51SpeakerAnd I kept, I would like send him magazines and commissary money and stuff to kind of keep them going. But then you had Subcool. You had bog, you had all these guys that were growing the dank strains. And the way I was selling it to them was I was like, listen, everyone thinks their shit's the best, but these bags are going to be like the word of God.

2:30:11SpeakerEven if you don't believe in God, they'll be the word of whatever you do believe in. Because when you run your material through these bags, your resin will not be able to hide from you once you've unveiled it from everything else that was present. And Subcool. And, you know, I was talking to this, about this with Addison today. When, you know, I first started doing this, I caught Sam's attention because not many people were doing what I was doing.

2:30:37SpeakerYou know, then when Matt Rice came out and then eventually Nickatee, they caught my attention. I was like, oh, what are these guys doing? What I've learned over the years from all of these unique characters. Sure, yeah, we might be able to follow clean SOPs and have chef-like standards. But really what we have is an old factory that allows us to track down incredible breeders and growers.

2:31:00SpeakerAnd suddenly when you're running material like that, because I remember the first four or five, six times I ran material through bags, it was terrible. And it wasn't until Breeders Steve was like, I got some shish keberry, the yellow line. I was like, ooh, the yellow line. That was my favorite line. of the red and the yellow afghan that were used to produce the two phenols of shish keberry.

2:31:27SpeakerAnyway, the first time I ran that and actually saw full mouth. And prior to that, I had only ever seen full mouth in like Sam's bong when Rob puffed me down in this Thai restaurant in Amsterdam and said, if it don't bubble, it ain't worth the trouble. And I watched it all boiling and bubbling. And I was like, Oh my god, I have to find that it took me It took me almost four years to find that because I saw it in 95 and then I didn't have it myself till around like the end of 98, the start of 99, which is when Fresh Hatties and Bubble Bags was founded.

2:32:03SpeakerYou know, I got to come in and put in a beautiful word because we were talking so much about Frenchie and then came on with Sub, you know. Talk about someone who was out there incredibly passionate.

2:32:16Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlso about the soil.

2:32:18SpeakerAnd not something I say very often, but he didn't give a fuck. And I really appreciated that about him because that was sort of the energy that needed to push forward for the genetics to be able to get out there for the information to get out there and He came up with his, you know, subsoil recipe, which was organic. You know, he did start to bring the term organic to the world.

2:32:44SpeakerAnd to flavor. And as much, you know, I became.

2:32:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd to breath a little bit.

2:32:49SpeakerYeah. And, you know, we always say that people can't change or that, you know, we stick with something and we may stay with it our whole lives. I became really close to sub after his house burned down. And the heart and soul that he came to

2:33:12SpeakerUm, and his life was just astounding. And I just had so much love for the life that he lived, you know, um, big up to Ms. Jill, because we're talking a lot about his genetics, but she was a big part of that as well. And, you know, just, just so much love for, for being human and, and ending with, with heart and soul. So, you know, big ups to.

2:33:36KevinNow he had a great impact. He definitely, I mean, Subcool was, That was like the first real, you know, like a laser point focus on a specific flavor that for me, for like some of the stuff that I tasted from him, it was like so different from like an Afghani or anything else because it had such a good, really interesting flavor to all of his stuff. And then when it came to like, I think maybe the first purple hash I ever saw was when Matt Rise ran some of his stuff and it was, and I was just like, holy shit, what's, hash can be purple?

2:34:10KevinLike, what the fuck is this? And like, so he definitely had a strong influence on everything. And I think other guys at the same time were like, that I was just thinking were like DJ Short, you know, his stuff was cracking at the same time, Soma. You know, I was, I was, nothing changed my life. I was an indoor grower that was setting up houses. My buddies were, were real estate dudes that were loan officers.

2:34:34KevinSo they were just, they were building track houses in the, in the central valley. And I would just go in, they'd get a new house and I'd go in and rip the thing apart and boom, they're set up the grow. And, and I had a landscape company and I would just go there and mow the lawn and tend to like, I had this system set up and I did that and my life changed.

2:34:52KevinWhen I found New York City Diesel because it was so thick and so citrusy and that was like so much stuff at the same time and it was just like that that whole that whole era that we're talking about like BPG and you know the other one I thought about the other day was Romulan like I would love to wash Romulan right now and just see what goes I was I was good cuts too

2:35:19Etienne FontanYou know how I got, Rob? I was telling somebody, this is how old OG it was back in the day. This is how I got Romulan. I was working for Ed. And he said, we're going to a clone exchange. We go to an undisclosed location. A van meets us. We are put on blindfolds. We are put hoods on. We get in the van and we are driven around for an hour.

2:35:45Etienne FontanThen we arrive wherever we arrive. We take our boxes, get out. We're led into a house. When we got in the house, then we took our hoods. Then we were allowed to take our eye masks off. And then we got high. We showed each other our plants. And I got Romulan. And that's when we got grapefruit as well. But grapefruit was- What year was that? That was 2000.

2:36:15Etienne FontanYeah, 2000.

2:36:20SpeakerDude, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, the fact that you got Grapefruit and Romulan lends a lot to your story that you got those simultaneously. Because, and I go way back with Romulan since, I don't know who Romulan Joe got it from, but I knew Romulan Joe. And how I met Romulan Joe was Hillary hit me up one day and was like, listen, one of, you know, the growers, this was at the club.

2:36:44SpeakerAnd I was like, how many growers can you possibly have? It's been like six months. She might, she might've had three of us. And I was one of them. And so the other one was this dude, Romulan Joe. I didn't know it at the time, but she was like, can you help out and get this guy back set up? I was like, yeah, of course. So I invested some money to get his grow built up, met him eventually, giant of a man, teddy bear of a man, incredible.

2:37:06SpeakerBut I got turned on to that true, true Romulan. And it was just like, my God, dude, we could not get enough of that shit. Someone's got to, it's got to be...

2:37:17KevinYeah, it's got to come back.

2:37:19SpeakerFunny enough, I saw Romulan Joe years later, and he was walking with a big jar of weed, and he gave it to me, and I was like, what's this? He's like, oh, it's Breeders Steve's old grapefruit cut. Now I've been growing it, you know, the Romulan and the grapefruit. Those have always been my go-to. So when you said you got the Romulan and the grapefruit, That could very well have been from Romulan Joe.

2:37:40SpeakerIt would have to be if it was the real deal anyway.

2:37:43Etienne FontanHe was a Romulan one. He was huge. I do remember he was huge.

2:37:47SpeakerSo this was 90, this was 97. Yeah, so this was...

2:37:52Etienne FontanI met Romulan Joe. Yeah, this was 2000 at an undisclosed location in an area where I don't know. So it's just one of those, actually, actually, it's 99. Because I came in 99, so it was actually in 99. Because I worked from Ed from 99 to just before in 01. So yeah, yeah. And so then the same thing. Once we did our exchange, we then had to put the mask on, then put the hoods back on.

2:38:23Etienne FontanWe were led back outside and then driven back to our undisclosed location of which we then just all dispersed. Be thankful you can actually go to a store and actually get your fucking genetics because that shit was nerve wracking, dog. I'm not going to deny.

2:38:40SpeakerDude, they never, he didn't give it away to anyone. Just so you know, like that had to have come like from a very strong source to say, hey, you need to give this to these people. It was, it was by invitation. People could have done that. It was by invitation only.

2:38:54Etienne FontanAnd Ed Rosenthal was a genetics known guy in Northern California. So it could very well have been. It was so long ago, I can't recall.

2:39:04SpeakerWe'd have to ask Hillary about that.

2:39:09Collin PalmerYeah, but it would have to have come from Romulan Joe if it was the real Rom.

2:39:14KevinWell, that was the Romulan at BPG was definitely the real Rom. That shit was great fire. That shit was so good. I remember that stuff. Hey, you know, I was thinking at the end, I would bet money right now that Kay from Tricomb Technologies was at that undisclosed location. He was.

2:39:34KevinDefinitely. He has that same, he has a funny ass story. I think he told it to High Times about like Geraldo Rivera. Didn't he like blindfold Geraldo Rivera or something like that? Yes.

2:39:43Etienne FontanYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's just how it was done, you know, because you didn't want people to remember a location where you were. You didn't want a picture of an angle because people could figure out at night where a triangulation of a star was. I mean, you didn't want to get robbed. Right. And Romulan got lost because of the white powdery mildew surge of the early aughts.

2:40:06Etienne FontanAnd it was just one of those plants that was just a fucking magnet for it, unfortunately. And it just... You know, that's why it kind of made its way out. But I've yet to find a genetic with that type of flavor profile that it had.

2:40:22KevinThere's a cat in Sacramento right now that has a genetics company called Romulan Genetics. And they have some crosses and some other stuff. And I've been communicating with them, but I want to see if it's actually the Romulan. I haven't gotten in touch with them completely.

2:40:38SpeakerThat's the thing about the Romulan people. If he gets old. Oh, really? Yeah, exactly. Everyone that said they had the Romulan since Romulan Joe stopped growing it just did not have the Romulan. I met one guy on Overgrow that had some Romulan cross and I was like, that has Romulan in it. Because it's kind of the Romulan is kind of like the Shishkeberry in that sense. Anything you put the Shishkeberry into, I'm not sure if it was Osamine or what profile it was, but it just had this You just really knew that Shishka Berry was in there.

2:41:13SpeakerIt's in the Nicole from Marimbaro. It's in the Barb from Matt the Great Gardener. You know, you can taste it in all the bars at Shishka Berry. And yeah, shout out to DJ Short because he was, yeah, he was also a big, you know, just producing fire at that time, you know, early 90s, late 90s, early 2000s.

2:41:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd that, yeah, we were a big part of those, those growing, you know, in Eugene and that area. That was also...

2:41:45SpeakerMid 90s, we were definitely, I was early 90s, early, early 90s.

2:41:50Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBlueberry everywhere. Blueberry and Trinity. And it was huge strains.

2:41:55SpeakerAnd it was kind on tour. So I was kind on tour and that was all DJ Short Stuff out of Eugene. And that was being all put on to tour.

2:42:05Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlso, Soma lived in Eugene before he moved to Holland. And then there was kind of like this crazy stuff behind that. What's that? Did you know Seuss? Seuss.

2:42:17SpeakerSoma and Seuss. Yeah, Soma and Seuss. He was the parrot guy. He had all the birds. He was also in the same area. Absolutely.

2:42:26Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, yeah.

2:42:27SpeakerThose guys go way back.

2:42:29Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe blue dream, the flow, and the blueberry were all created right around the same time. What do you got there? Is that a blueberry? No, this is flow. This is actually flow.

2:42:41Etienne FontanI actually grew a bud of the flow that I grew when I was living in LA when I When I was moved to LA, I was working with Todd McCormick there and I was growing on my own at home and I grew this flow and I loved it so much. I literally brought it into my tattoo artist and said, I want that here. He's like, okay. And then the genetic disappeared.

2:43:03Etienne FontanThe flow makes great hash, too.

2:43:05Collin PalmerYeah, he still makes seeds of it. I have a few packs of it, actually.

2:43:11SpeakerI got to say that DJ Short's genetics, you know, really made a stance on Dead Tour any time that those genetics were brought out. We've got a lot of great people here. We've got a lot of great people here. We've got a lot of great people here. We've got a lot of great people here.

2:43:46KevinThere's like hash breeders, there's height breeders, there's, you know, different types of one because the market's so big now and so much so open that it's crazy. And it's like, I just love going to the breeders that aren't hash breeders and looking at those genetics and being like, I wonder, I wonder how that would be in hash or I wonder this or looking at the old school stuff and thinking that's, that's the most painful thing to do to yourself is to think of old school genetics and then how good it would have been in like, in like a rosin form or something like that.

2:44:17KevinIt's a good way to torture yourself right there.

2:44:19Etienne FontanOh, can you imagine the Romulan and rosin? Oh. That's what I'm saying. Oh, that grape flavor.

2:44:27KevinYeah. Oh. It keeps me up at night, Etienne, right? That's what it is.

2:44:33SpeakerThis is why we need a germ. We need a germplasm institute of North America.

2:44:40Etienne FontanWe need a germplasm institute of North America so that all these genetics are saved so that they're kept for posterity so that we can't continue to have these stories of lore so that they're actually protected. So whoever's watching this, get on it. We need that shit yesterday.

2:44:56KevinWe do. It's very important. Or just, I mean, can't you tissue culture all of them?

2:45:01Etienne FontanIf you have them, but the problem is, is if they're clean too, because there's still, We have biological things stuck in there that have to be bioremediated that Segre and others have found out via genetics that they have to pull out. So you can TC them, but if you don't actually clean the genetic out of those bio problems, you're just perpetuating those issues and inconsistency. So there's, yes, it's just a step further.

2:45:32KevinSo we have to get Reggie involved is what you're telling me.

2:45:34Etienne FontanYeah, pretty much.

2:45:37SpeakerOn the flip side of that, you know, also regenerating old strains through really deep soil, multi-diversity, multi-species, you know, biome is another great way to do it because then you're just flooding that plant's endophytic system and flooding it with different microbiology. And then that really also cleans it. So just the opposite spectrum of

2:46:05Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhen it comes out of tissue culture, you got to make sure you get it into that inoculation point. Yeah.

2:46:13Collin PalmerHealthy plants, man. Out of retirement, get you to bring skunk back, Sam. Yeah, what's up?

2:46:23KevinWe need it. Like, yeah, that's very important.

2:46:27SpeakerI'll wait another few years until people really appreciate it. Because why didn't anybody keep a clone? They're dumb. What are you talking about? Which one are you talking about? The skunk one or the fruit one? Because the skunk one, all those people got busted and they couldn't keep one. Skunk one was originally skunky. I bred it sweeter. I like the sweet version. And a better high flavor and effects to me.

2:47:00SpeakerBut yeah, you got to remember skunk was never more than about 17% THC. It was not no ball buster, but people consistently pick it over stuff that was 2025 because they liked it better.

2:47:18Etienne FontanYeah, when I worked for Richard Lee, who did the Bulldog here in America, I was the guy who worked in his gardens because he was in a chair. He loves skunk number one, but he liked that cut at six and a half weeks. That's where he liked it as opposed to letting it go to eight weeks.

2:47:39SpeakerRob liked it a bit earlier than me too, but I liked it maxed out because I'm a resin producer. I don't smoke weed. What was your max for skunk?

2:47:55SpeakerMaybe 10 weeks.

2:47:57KevinWow. Could you imagine skunkies arousing right now?

2:48:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI like the roadkill. I can remember. That's what all skunk was.

2:48:10SpeakerIt was roadkill in the beginning.

2:48:13Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDidn't Todd McCormick just do a big skunk number one seed release that he did from like last year?

2:48:20SpeakerI heard that myth and that rumor. Todd's a good friend of mine. I don't know what that means.

2:48:27KevinYes. I heard that he may be at Legends.

2:48:35SpeakerTodd's a serious smoker.

2:48:38KevinI've never seen him smoke a hubbly bubbly though. Sam, are you going to come to Legends?

2:48:45SpeakerNo, I'm not going to come to California. First of all, I don't think it's safe to travel.

2:48:51KevinAre you going to do the telecast with us? So that we can say hi.

2:48:56SpeakerI'll consider it. We can talk about it. But yeah, as soon as we can travel, I'll be glad to come to California and I'll be glad to go many other places in the world. But it's still a bit iffy to me. It's just not enough people are vaccinated in the world or have had it already to make me feel safe enough.

2:49:23KevinYeah. No, it's true. It's a definite factor at this point for sure for travel. I mean, Mark, can people, or Canada just opened up, I think, but can Americans go to Canada? I don't think we can yet, right?

2:49:36SpeakerYeah, I think so. I think the ones that have had their jabs are allowed to come here. I think we opened actually to all international travelers recently that have their vaccination, which I get that the vaccination keeps them from getting really deathly ill or dying. Doesn't keep them from getting the virus. Well, that seems kind of strange. It's like, okay, whether you're vaccinated or not, you can bring the virus into the country.

2:50:06SpeakerMy brother-in-law was vaccinated twice and he got the virus. So he was, he had already had it. He was vaccinated twice and he got it again.

2:50:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlso in British Columbia. No comment. No comment. I'll leave that alone as well. But I'll just, just for information purposes, British Columbia is implementing the COVID passport on September 13th. So if you come to British Columbia and for British Columbians now, Some people who do believe in true health and have other ways of healing themselves will be banned from society. So you will not be able to go to any restaurant, no club, no music.

2:50:57Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineNo, you can't have weddings, public transportation, public transportation and from September 13th till January 30th. So it might be a long time before you see a good amount of people from British Columbia because Some people need to stay at their house. That's ridiculous.

2:51:22SpeakerI suspect it'll end up being like Austria, where they just have these really fast tests. And if you don't have that jab or whatever, they'll just get you to do the quick test. And then it's like, yeah, there you go. I don't think it's going to be quite like we're going to be a segregated apartheid. You know, obviously the conspiracy freak in me is always like, ooh, overbearing powers of government are somewhat terrifying.

2:51:47SpeakerThese guys do tend to fuck it up more often than not. Come on, Marcus, tell the truth. What you want is you want people to wear a little yellow vaccination star on their shoulder. Dude, that's what they did in North Vancouver near where I lived. They were giving gold stars away to people who got two vaccines. And I guess an elderly woman from like Poland was in there and she lost it.

2:52:17SpeakerShe was just like, what are you doing?

2:52:21SpeakerIt's interesting, too, because someone, someone I spoke to the other day was like, you know, this is terrible to make these correlations between like a vaccine passport and the Holocaust. And I'm like, okay, like, this did happen. And it was in our paper. And it was kind of a connection between the vaccine passport and You know, the Holocaust, because the gold star was the thing that got her, the gold star.

2:52:45SpeakerNow it wasn't a six-pointed gold star, it was a five-pointed gold star, which of course people in the comments section started having huge arguments about. But you could imagine from someone, from the perspective of someone that lived through the Holocaust, that that would leave a bad taste in their mouth and maybe just do it a different way. I think Americans can't come to most places in Europe unless they can prove they've been vaccinated.

2:53:11SpeakerJack, I think Canada is the same thing.

2:53:13KevinYeah, I'm lucky that I'm happy right here.

2:53:21SpeakerYeah, I mean, I live in a forest with the ocean out in France and I got some food growing on my deck and some cannabis plants. I'm feeling pretty good in the area that I'm in and I feel pretty healthy too. I don't feel that I'm, you know. Yeah, but it's fun to travel. I haven't traveled in a long time. Yeah, travel. That's when I see you, Sam, when I travel.

2:53:46SpeakerAnywhere I go in Europe, boom into Amsterdam, boom over to Sam's. If I go to Spain, well, shit, he's like, I'll come to Spain. Let's get a place. Yeah.

2:53:57Dr Mark ScialdoneHe used to wear a mask and just suck it up, you know?

2:54:00KevinI've been traveling, you know. It's not that bad.

2:54:04SpeakerYou know what? Even before this... Sorry, Marcus. I think that it's really important no matter how you feel about the vaccine or not the vaccine that we all still need to come together on, you know, separatist ideology and separatist rollout like this. I think that it's incredibly dangerous. Those people who are showing vaccine passports to get into a restaurant and think that it's okay for them to sit down and eat food.

2:54:33SpeakerIt's not okay. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today.

2:55:04SpeakerHow you feel about the vaccine or what your visions are about it. We cannot be separating out people like this. It's not good. It's just not good for all different facets of humanity and nor for our future generations and nor for our health and well-being. Come on, people. Never have we been more sick than from this. And I'm not talking about just sickness of COVID. I'm talking about mental, emotional illness that people are having with separations of their family because some people might feel that the vaccine is OK.

2:55:34SpeakerOther people are feeling it's not okay. When has it ever been that somebody got a measles vaccine and then another person didn't, but they went to war with each other and they don't speak with each other anymore? This is happening everywhere. If we don't rise above this, then we lose. All of us lose, vaccinated or not vaccinated. So that's my high horse. And I hope that you all hear this out of love and out of kindness and out of togetherness.

2:56:00SpeakerThis is not about separatism. This is not about a virus or an illness. This is about just humans coming together with humans and recognizing that we are a communing species, that we need each other to be able to have a healthy species into the future. Yeah. Well, you need to be able to have dialogue. We need dialogue. And that's the key. What they did was, you know, a little while ago, they started to compel speech.

2:56:25SpeakerAnd, you know, they did it here in Canada where they went through the universities and they were like, hey, we've now made some new rules. You've got to call people what they want to be called. And here's a bunch of pronouns that come into play. And there was like there was this dude in Toronto, a university professor was like, oh, no, you can't compel speech. And then, of course, everyone was like, oh, you're against Jordan Peterson, they're like, you're against the transgender community.

2:56:48SpeakerHe's like, no, I'm not against the transgender.

2:56:51BubblemanYou're an anti-Semite. No, I've actually thought about the Holocaust.

2:56:55SpeakerThey've thrown all this shit at this guy. And really, all he ever stood up for was the compelment of speech and who he who controls speech controls what is defined as hate. And it's a very slippery slope. You can create, you know, these discussions that are now one sided because and I kind of try to remind people cannabis was one of those things for

2:57:22KevinElon fucked us.

2:57:24Bryan Best Friend FarmsElon.

2:57:25SpeakerAm I back? You're back.

2:57:27BubblemanSorry.

2:57:28SpeakerYou're back. Did I freeze the whole time? Yes, you were froze. You did one of these. The entire time. I was saying some good stuff. I don't know if I'll pull it back out. Yeah, I guess that's gone.

2:57:44SpeakerWhat were you smoking again? The last thing I hit was some straw nana, 120 microns, home out, six star.

2:57:53Etienne FontanOkay, don't expound in straw nana, ladies and gentlemen.

2:57:57SpeakerOh, okay, no. You know what I was going to say? I was just going to say about that they've removed the dialogue. It's like through this Jordan Peterson conversation of compelling speech, now they're controlling what you can and can't talk about. And it's reminiscent of the pot days where it was prohibition Only the gnarly of us were willing to speak. We all seemed like we were kind of insane.

2:58:18SpeakerNo one really had to listen to us because we were just crackpots. And now they've done the same thing for, you know, You couldn't even get high times. No, that's what I mean. And so now they're doing this similar thing on this other discussion. It's like, look, okay, I'm not going to choose a side right now here, but I'll tell you that at least let both sides have a dialogue because if you make one side so afraid, 90% of people won't We're going to have a discussion about something.

2:58:45SpeakerSo that's where I stand and that's what I wanted to say. Yeah, my opinion is it's not that I don't care about it. It's just that there are so many other things that I care more about.

2:59:14KevinIt's really what it comes down to. I'm just like, it's sure it's a conversation, but it's just a conversation. If someone tells me that they got the vaccine or not, I don't think any differently. It's more, you know, I'm like, do whatever the fuck you want, man. I never, and that's why I love being a cannabis person. Cause it's like, I've always wanted everyone to feel that way about us.

2:59:32KevinSo I don't fucking care. I'm like, I mean, I like seeing people get fired up. I think that's interesting. But at the same time, I also think that it's like, Yeah, we're losing, we're losing an understanding. And that understanding is that like people should have an opinion, like let them have their opinion. You should ask yourself why you get so worked up about someone else's fucking opinion.

2:59:53KevinThat really should be the question.

2:59:55SpeakerLike, you know, why do you care? Why is it that it always becomes so political? And it's pretty interesting that the entire world is dealing with this, but yet American politics comes into every single conversation. Like, I really think we need to

3:00:13SpeakerThank you so much for joining us today.

3:00:33SpeakerHow we look at different things and the information to be able to look at all sides of it. We need to be able to gain education by looking at all different facets of it. And if we don't have all different facets, then we have a very small conversation going that just goes around in circles. And that's what happens when you politicize anything. So when you politicize things, that's what you do.

3:00:56SpeakerYou politicize it. So come on. Hold on.

3:00:59Dr Mark ScialdonePresident of the United States. Elect the clown, expect the circus. This is all part of that circus, ladies and gentlemen. Sorry. Don't elect a reality star as the president of the United States. End of story. How about don't allow who's the president to affect what the fuck you do?

3:01:20Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're trying not to talk about politics right now.

3:01:23Dr Mark ScialdoneYou guys went there, so I went there too, right?

3:01:27Etienne FontanI look at it from a health perspective. I take care of patients. I've been dealing with patients. The whole reason Addison and I knew each other is because I bought some bad weed back in 07 that got me an upper respiratory infection because there was something I couldn't see. OK, so that's still ongoing, you know, even though the traditional market is still going, going strong and going stronger than the legal market.

3:01:54Etienne FontanIt's still not testing and doing the things that need to be done to protect the consumer at the end of the day. And that's the whole reason we did it. Now, the overabundance and the overregulation has kind of ruined the idea and thought. But, you know, I am a medical patient, for one. I have Gulf War Syndrome, so I have my own sensitivity to whatever. However, I have employees that I have to take care of that we've worked through.

3:02:21Etienne FontanWe were declared actual... People who could actually go out in the world and serve others. And we were also the first one to allow the vaccine. And I want to continue to see people and take care of people. So yeah, I don't believe there's two kinds of science. I believe there's one science, which is the replicatable science that anyone could do, which I think Dr. Mark, and of course, I would call him Dr. DeMoura because he pretty much should be a doctor, but you know.

3:02:48Etienne FontanThat's all.

3:02:51SpeakerThat's all.

3:02:52Etienne FontanWell, my loving asshole, you know, it's just one of those things that science is replicatable. And, you know, let's fall upon science. Belief is one thing. But when you cross over your door and affect and kill people who I know, which I know, I just had multiple friends die in Louisiana because they decided not to get the vaccine and they had their obituaries. And it's terrible. It's painful to watch.

3:03:18Etienne FontanIt hurts. But at the same time, you know, I'm in favor of vaccines, but I'm not in favor of mandatorily seizing people's ability to speak or have their choice. But at what point does it cross over and it affect other people when you're out and about and going? Because that's the reality is I have enough deaths on my conscience from war. I'm trying not to add any more scalps to my reality.

3:03:43Etienne FontanSorry to use that terminology. It wasn't meant in any type of attack of any one shape or form. It's just a reality of war sometimes. That's just the reality that we face. So I agree that everybody has their right, but I also agree with science. But at the same time, when we're out as a society and we're seeing a worldwide situation, We have to realize that we all have a responsibility to our fellow brothers and sisters.

3:04:12Etienne FontanAnd what that is, is your choice to decide. However, I know I've made my choices and I'm double vaxxed at the moment.

3:04:19SpeakerYeah, and I just wanted to add to that that we all do have our own choices and we also have a responsibility that when we're sick with the flu or anyone has a cold that you stay home. Everybody does that. You don't feel good, you stay home. But we're not out there, you know, asking for people's records on whether they have HIV or whether they have syphilis or whether they have hepatitis A, B, or C because all of those things are actually contractible in restaurants.

3:04:48SpeakerSo, you know, I think that it's really important that if we're just going to be separating out this one thing that we need to really truly have the science and the science is not just hyper focusing on this one virus. Let's talk about all of it and all of the contagions that humans are walking around with. So, you know, to be hyper focusing on one just really, I'm sorry, it doesn't truly make sense if we're looking at the science.

3:05:17Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd if we do look at science, we can find lots of GMO style agriculture, which creates superbugs and super sicknesses. So there's no guarantee that everyone's going to All right. Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:05:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAndrew Berman, Amy Van Dyke, Brandeis University School of Business Administration, New York City School of Business Administration, New York City School of Business Administration, New York City School of Business Administration, New York City School of Business Administration, New York City School of Business Administration, New York City School of Business Administration, New York City School of Business Administration, New York City School of Business Administration, New York City School of Business Administration,

3:06:06SpeakerThat really possibly if we are doing the science, then we're actually recognizing that that may not be to the best of our health and well-being and actually fighting this virus that we're all dealing with. If we spent billions of dollars on actual knowledge and actual science that when people get out into the air and out into nature, that they're uptaking a healthier microbiome. When we laugh with people, when we share a joint in a circle, Are we really truly passing more negativity or are we passing more positivity?

3:06:40SpeakerSo really and truly gathering and ATN, I hear everything that you're saying. I totally want to respect what you're saying. Freedom of choice. And you're saying freedom of choice and I'm saying right on, brother. Thank you so much for saying that. But also, I just wanted to speak that there is science and other facets that we aren't testing for, that we aren't isolating people out for, for providing their medical tests at restaurants or in public gatherings, because it doesn't make sense.

3:07:08Etienne FontanOh, it's illogical. But speaking of science, this one goes to Sam specifically. I just got the IACM bulletin, and apparently they've gone under and are restructuring, which is the International Association of Cannabinoid Medicines. Do you know anything about this or the restructuring?

3:07:30SpeakerI read about it earlier this evening when I was sent it to me. But I think apparently it's because of the COVID and how they were going to try to do this online thing, which I believe they canceled for this October. And I think all the weight was on Franjo and just a few people. And so they're trying to spread it out and reorganize it. And also they're going to be more of an umbrella organization for all the national versions of them.

3:08:06Etienne FontanThank you for that clarification. I was cannabis curious.

3:08:12SpeakerI really like the work they do. And Brando is a very special friend.

3:08:19Etienne FontanI appreciate what they do. And I hope they're able to continue because they're at the forefront of cannabis research and getting asked to ask cannabinerds out here who, you know, just want to see what's going on.

3:08:33SpeakerAnd, you know, we're, of course, we're hyper focused on cannabis because it's a cannabis, you know, talk. And because we're also so totally entrenched in cannabis and thinks it's the best thing in the world. And also the reason why the endocannabinoid system was even discovered is because there started to be a little bit of money. You know, Sam, as you know, money started to be flowing into, you know, hemp and cannabis research for us to be able to even find that money.

3:09:02SpeakerBut I wanted to open up the conversation of, you know, there's all facets of nature that are corresponding within our body that are communicating within our body that have yet to be discovered. What about the herbal cannabinoid system? So we talk about, you know, compounding, you know, cannabis, but we have such a connection with all different types of plants. It's why we're able to get high off of peyote.

3:09:26SpeakerIt's why we're able to get high off of cannabis. It's not just an endocannabinoid system. That's just the beginning. Here we are again, that cannabis becomes the gateway drug. It's becoming the gateway knowledge of us to understand how herbal remedies are such a huge factor in our health and well-being, all the way down to repairing our cellular DNA well into future generations.

3:09:54KevinThat's like what I was saying earlier about health and optimizing health through biohacking, focusing on gut health, focusing on these other things so that you can enjoy life. Once I started on focusing on gut health and understanding that all of this mitochondria is built in the gut and all your body's made of cells, which is mitochondria driven. Like once you figure that shit out and you start eating correctly to whoever you are.

3:10:24KevinAnd I just say that because people can eat, you know, there's food that's served everywhere. But have you ever sat down and kind of figured out what you eat best, like what you're what's best for you? Like, listen. A lot of people aren't listening. They're not slowing down. They're not taking the time to do the research to figure out what that post really meant and they want to speak about it.

3:10:45KevinAnd that's the, I mean, you would think that more people would smoke hash because it slows you down and it makes you focus on little different things. And like my whole, my whole job, everything I'm doing, my whole mantra in my whole life is hash. It's simple. It's one thing. It's that direction. Dream. And that, exactly, cream, hash, that direction, that one thing, and all my business falls into that.

3:11:11KevinEverything else falls into that. And it makes everything much more simple. And anything outside of that doesn't attract my attention. That's all. You know, it's like,

3:11:21SpeakerThat's why I called Marcus and was like, because you're saying that all I've got to do is just, you know, focus on hash. It's going to be so simple. But what you're focusing on is a fractal medicine that has 10 billion possibilities. So good luck on that becoming so simplified.

3:11:39KevinLife work. I like it. It's working out incredibly well up to this point. I'm staying in my lane. I'm just continuing to do this. And I'm grateful that like how many people get to do what they really fucking love. And I think all of us. Get to do what we fucking love. I mean, Mark loves what he does. Mark has the fish thing. And we all have this shit in our life that we get to do because of this, because we understand that like, this is what we love.

3:12:09KevinThis is what we do. But we're so blessed for that too. We're so much more. That's why, that's why I started giving weed away when I did, because I would meet people that weren't in such a good position and you'd stoke them out with weed and they'd be like, fuck yeah. And then you change their day and you had an impact on that. So.

3:12:29KevinIt was, it's just that that's the type of shit that I think people need to understand that simplify first, but start with your health and then figure out what you love. And run in that direction and be brave. And that's what life's about. And do that. And all this shit falls into place. And be kind and loving and do that shit right, you know?

3:12:48BubblemanAnd that's the note we're leaving it on right there. That's the one. I like that. You know, we got into some good stuff there for a bit. But I was going to crush this out at 12. I let us go 13 minutes over. You know, my little guy looking at me through the door. Big doe eyes wanting to go out electric skateboarding. Thank you everyone for coming out.

3:13:10BubblemanI really appreciate it. It was awesome. As always, it's been almost a hundred days since we had a hash church. So we'll see if maybe we can make another one happen next week. I'm not sure yet, but I do really appreciate everyone for coming and sharing their truths. And yeah, Makine, Legends of Hash next month. Talk about that again some more. All right, guys. Big love. Peace out.

3:13:38BubblemanTake care, everybody.

3:13:40SpeakerOnly love.

3:13:41Etienne FontanHave a great weekend, y'all. Much love.

3:13:47SpeakerIt's a great seeing everybody. Big love, everybody.