The Rise of Future 4200 and Delta 8 Controversy

0:01BubblemanAnd there we go. Just like that. We are live. Welcome everybody. Hash Church 3.0 episode 24 on June 6th of 2021. I'm just going to quickly go in and mute the link that's live, copy it and paste it into the other YouTube room so everyone can come and play. And Welcome, dude. Welcome to Dustin Powers in the house from Future 4200 website. We're going to talk a little bit about that today.

0:33BubblemanThe rest of the crew is late to the party, so it's just you and I, man. Really nice to meet you finally here on Hash Church, and I'm looking forward to talking a little bit about your website and kind of talking about how you started it and how it all kind of came to be and just really much respect for what you've done. You know, it seemed like a lot of the websites that I don't want to say fell off, but kind of fell off when cannabis became more integrated into Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and still they like to play and shut down accounts.

1:06BubblemanBut you really pushed through with the chemistry and kind of brought this group of people that were still willing to stay together. I just didn't see it on IC Mag. I just didn't see it on some of the other websites that just some of the hardcore stayed. But to me, the websites really crumbled compared to what they once were.

1:26DrYeah, absolutely. And, you know, none of them had a focus on the cannabis processing. And that was, you know, those two things between social media, current social media platforms being a terrible repository for information, you know, unsearchable. You got all this information in the comments that you'll never find again, which that pushed me right back into the forum mindset. And I started, you know, Investigating all the different cannabis forums and I realized there's a huge gap.

1:51DrThere's no cannabis processing forum. You know, ICMAG, because I came up under Graywolf, so I knew all about ICMAG, but it's got one subcategory for processing and that's it. There's no, you know, there's no organization there. There's no detailed, you know, like what we have on Future 4200 right now. So I just saw a giant hole and realized it was something that we needed to do.

2:11BubblemanWell, it's interesting that you would say that because I remember on Overgrow back in the late 90s, early 2000s, I got on there. It was Breeders Steve that was like, come on to Overgrow, you know, I'm in the shark tank. And I was kind of like the shark tank. What's the shark tank? Little did I know that's where all the trolls hung out. And that was like, got into it.

2:30BubblemanBut I ended up into the main, main room. And I can't even remember what the main room was. Welcome, Dr. Mark, just talking about Overgrow right now. And thank you for introducing Dustin and bringing him onto the show today. I really appreciate that. But yeah, Overgrow, Overgrow just had like a photo gallery and that's where Bog and Gypsy and myself and High Grade and some other kind of key early people were just posting these, you know, what we did back then was we went and bought two and $3,000 digital cameras.

3:02BubblemanThey were Sony cyber shots. They were like, And so that's how I started my company on Overgrow and I would post all these pictures.

3:29BubblemanAnd this one forum on Overgrow, this one folder that we all were posting in was where everyone was. And so eventually Shabang, who started the website, contacted me and say, hey, listen, I wanna get you A hash room and it was certainly it's just like you were saying like unsearchable one simple room not really focusing on processing but keep in mind this was really the beginning days to where we would get to with your website eventually and it was just like it was kind of a love-hate relationship i had with it because i went from going into this one room that had like 30 000 people in it Brandon Krenzler, Brandon Krenzler, Brandon Krenzler,

4:30BubblemanHash Church is unsearchable. There's gems on Hash Church. And if ever there's people that, you know, maybe have no lives and just want to sit around and watch 10,000 hours of Hash Church, boy, is there a value in picking out the nuggets that have been said on this show? Maybe we'll learn a little bit about that today from some of the things you share about, you know, Future 4200, how it kind of came to be and, you know, where it's at today.

4:58DrYeah, absolutely. I just wanted to give a shout out to Dr. Mark. Thank you for bringing me here. And thank you for all your contributions on the forum and everything you've done for cannabis. So appreciate you.

5:07Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, I'm not on there enough because I realized the other day as I was trying to scroll through and catch up that I'm so behind and it moves a million miles an hour and it's just It's so cool. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of tongue in cheek, you know, kind of back and forth. But I mean, I think when you wade through, there's quite a bit of useful information.

5:27Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I think, again, you fill an unmet need that's out there, which is, and I think Hash Church is different though, Mark. It's kind of like, I think of Hash Church is kind of like, again, reporting back in between Thanks for joining us. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.

6:17Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you so much for joining us.

6:49DrYeah, I mean, so there's a whole, we've got a whole lot of bases to cover here. I completely agree with you. We have this, there's this issue with the internet, right? Where people can act like idiots with very little repercussion. And, you know, I thought we had this figured out at the beginning, but as a forum moderator, administrator, it's impossible. It's impossible to make everybody happy. So we've taken as hands off an approach as possible and it has its pros and it has its cons, right?

7:16DrLike, I spent a lot of time on other technical forums, like whether it be carpentry or working on my tractors or in permaculture, yada, yada. And a lot more of them, or a lot of them are a lot more civil than our forum. But our forum gets a lot more done a lot quicker. So there's this give and take. And you're right, this form of communication that we're in right now on Hash Church is It definitely works well as a summary.

7:41DrAlso, we're looking at each other face-to-face, so we're much more polite. Nobody's calling each other names. Nobody's being a troll. And that's a huge, important thing. And there's all these different sides to the internet, and I don't think you can have one platform that does it all. It's just not, it doesn't work that way. So you're right. Being able to summarize after a week of nonsense with little gems in there, that's golden.

8:06DrSo, and to talk about the formation a little bit, it came out of necessity. Like I said, I wasn't able to search Instagram and that came up because I was working a consult job and the customer asked me a question that I didn't quite know, but I knew that I had read like a week or two previous on Instagram. I said, give me a sec. Let me see if I can find that little gem.

8:25DrYou know, 10, 15 minutes later, I gave up. I was like, it's impossible. You can't search this at all. And I had the thought in my head, wow, I wish there was a cannabis processing forum. Spent a couple of weeks looking. Like I said, there wasn't anything. And I didn't have the technical skills to start a forum. So I just kind of let the idea slide. I said, well, that would be great someday if somebody did that.

8:43DrAbout two weeks later, I was working a booth with Cascade Botanicals. Sidco Cat invited me. She's one of the original skunk farmers. I had worked with her and JD and Joe Oaks at Farm Gold. Joe actually brought me on board there. I was working that booth with Cascade. Catherine was there and her son Sidco was there. And at the end of the day, he said, hey, man, You should start a forum for cannabis processing.

9:07DrAnd we hadn't talked or anything. I said, wow, man, if that wasn't meant to be, you know, I explained this whole story to him and I said, look, I don't have the technical skills, but I have a bunch of ideas on how if you do the technical side, we can get this populated immediately. And you know how you said it took you a couple of years to get your new room rolling.

9:26DrI leveraged the power of Instagram to jumpstart the forum because we hit the ground running. We did a couple of giveaways. I was in the process of Downloading every single piece of scientific literature I could find on cannabis using LibGen, Sci-Hub. And then I would format the titles and then I'd categorize it. And I called it the data dump. And I use the data dump as incentive for people to come to the forum.

9:54DrI put up a post. I said, look, if you repost this, if you tag a couple of your friends, I'll give you the link to the data dump with all of this information. And it just hyperlinked people over to the forum. And that's where we initially started. So right off the bat, you know, we had multiple thousand members just hit the ground running. And I at the same time, I shared two different large scale techniques that I had developed.

10:16DrOne of them was bucket tech. It was, you know, if you've got a shed and a bunch of Mid to low quality cannabis. Can you extract the cannabinoids for cheap and safe in your backyard and, you know, at scale? And yeah, you definitely can with ethanol and buckets and a washing machine. And so we had the full write up SOP on that. And then at the same time, I'd also developed a technique for remediation of microbutanol from distillate.

10:44DrAnd it was the timing was such that California changed its laws and all of a sudden all of the distillate had to be pesticide free. It was an overnight decision. So you had all these companies with millions of dollars of inventory laying around. I convinced one of them to let me come in. They paid for all the testing. We figured it out. And my deal with them was reciprocity on the IP.

11:04DrI said, look, you can take the IP, do whatever you want. I'm going to take the IP and do whatever we want. We can't hold each other back. We can't tell each other what to do. That's the deal. And they were stoked. I gave them like three days head start. So they were able to remediate all their stuff and sell it into a market that was void of distillate.

11:19DrAnd on my end, I wrote it all up into an SLP. And it was the third prize for coming to future 4200 is this is where the pesticide remediation is. S.O.P. will be hosted for free forever so that we can make more clean, you know, quality products in, you know, throughout because that kind of my underlying goal is.

11:36Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat year was that, Dustin? Like what? I'm just trying to place that on the calendar. When was that?

11:42DrYou know, I should write these things down, but 2017, 2018, I think 2017. Okay. Yeah, maybe 17, 18, somewhere around there.

11:50Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, so it was right when that California reg kicked in, right?

11:53DrYes, whenever that is, yes. So there's a hard set date in the sand right there. Whenever they change that, but I'm sure you could look that up.

12:00Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. So immediately, you just have this huge audience because there was this need, oh my God, I got to remediate my distillate. How do I do that? I need an SRP. Bam, they go to Google, they find your thing. And I know that here's a resource. When I have issues around whatever that I can kind of constantly go back to.

12:24DrYep. So that's a great story, man. How's it going, Mike?

12:32Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's up, Dustin?

12:34SpeakerGood to see you again. Yeah, you too. You too.

12:38Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, Mike, how are you?

12:40SpeakerGood. Yeah. No, as Dustin kind of mentioned, there was a couple of states that were coming online with NIP. The requirements to test pesticides. And, you know, back in many of the states where medical, they would test for the cannabinoids and some analytical labs would offer to test for the terpenoids, but very little regulatory requirements were required by medical states. So there was a kind of unregulated industry, right?

13:10SpeakerAnd

13:12Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, the timing was such that some of these labs were now getting the mass spectrometers that had the sensitivity and the library to say, oh my God, look what's in here. There's a whole bunch of crap in here and we could do mass spec matches in our library that we unequivocally know here's this compound, here's this compound, and here's this compound. So it was kind of like both things, the regulation, but also the sophistication John Lumpkin, of the analytical instrumentation in the testing labs allowed these things to be found and quantified.

13:47Dr Mark ScialdoneJohn Lumpkin, And, and so again going back to to you know the usefulness of 4200 as a forum it's like well, if you need to understand about those techniques sensitivities techniques, what kind of techniques are out there. I mean, if you know nothing about the field, you can do a deep dive on that form and get all kinds of information. Right, Dustin?

14:13DrOh yeah, absolutely. And it's like my people, how do I get into the cannabis processing industry? It's man, go spend a week on your, your, you know, professional training on the forum. Go read through as much of that as you can get through. And you have a huge jumpstart to, you know, if you, if you don't know anything to, I'm going to be, I got a job making hash in two weeks.

14:31DrWhat do I do? That, that's a great free resource for you.

14:38BubblemanAnd isn't that a funny, accurate statement? I got a job making hash next week and I don't know what to do. It's like, well, why the fuck would you apply for the job if you don't know what you're... And it's crazy to think... Yeah, but I didn't know how to make pizza when I got my first pizza making job, right?

14:56DrA lot of people don't know what they're doing when they get their job. That's kind of life, right? So... And in a normal world, you'd be able to go and sweep the floor for a buck an hour and learn by experience as an apprentice or whatever. But in the real world, when Ashley, yeah, and that's how it should be. That's, you know, if you don't have any skills.

15:14Etienne FontanLook, the industry, the industry has been plucked clean. I mean, let's be real. The disciplines have already been paid for. You're taken away. So people are going to fake the funk. people are going to lie what they they have to do but they do this in everyday jobs all the time you know early on i didn't know what i was doing and i had to figure out things there was no rule books on how to you know run a dispensary or any of that so you know we just grabbed it by the seat of the pants so you know now there's rules as we used to as we say before we were building a plane while flying it now you've got runways you've got engines you can take off you can do all these different things so So, you know, plan it before you start it and try to do as best as you can.

15:54Etienne FontanBut, you know, a lot of these businesses and jobs are new. So, you know, getting in there and fitting in and trying to figure it out is is real world. So, you know, Dustin's not wrong.

16:06BubblemanNo, I definitely agree. At the same time, I got to say and shout out to all my techs that we've trained over the last year at Embark. These guys came in with very little knowledge, most of them, and they have learned to have, you know, if you teach people the right way and the correct SOPs and the right pathways to the results that you're looking for, it's incredible how fast people can really kind of You know, and I'm talking mostly solventless right now, but I'm sure it will be the same when Mike starts training people on his side of the lab.

16:39BubblemanSo yeah, it's pretty awesome. Shout out to the new hash makers that are coming on. I definitely remember the days where I knew nothing. Thank God I got lucky and got to stand on the shoulders of some pretty amazing giants.

16:52Etienne FontanWell, people prefer people that have little to no experience because those who have experience will want to do things their own way. Whereas those that have SOPs, they will follow them to a T, which is what you need and have to do. So, you know, we're all about breaking the rules, but know the rules before you break the rules is all I'm saying.

17:13Dr Mark ScialdoneYou have to strike a certain balance. You have to be able to do something unique and something expressive that you could put your own individual creativity into. But you're absolutely right. You're probably going to have to follow a set of SOPs that you may not think is the best way of doing things. But regulation and the rest of your company requires you to do it. It becomes really terrible when you have We have no problem with mistake.

18:01BubblemanWelcome. Welcome to Fontaine, who I just spoke over. Apologies for that. Welcome to Johnny fucking B with the Save the Terps hat on. Crazy bastard that he is. Love him. Love him. Welcome to Mike West. Welcome to Mr. Vessel Life. Collin Palmer's in the house. And dude, you came in with such a serious face, Colin. It's what made me laugh. I was like, I looked around.

18:26Collin PalmerYou were like. I was like, I was, well, I was looking at something on my screen really intently. I was like, what is that? And that's my, that's my, my mind's churning look.

18:38BubblemanTotally. I saw it. I caught it.

18:40Collin PalmerGood to see you guys. How's everyone doing? Nice to see, we got future 4200 Dustin. What's going on, brother? Nice to meet you in the internet fashion.

18:54Collin PalmerMark, everyone, Johnny B. Of course, thanks for having me, Marcus. I'm en route to California this week. So if anyone is around, I will be there.

19:05Dr Mark ScialdoneSo am I.

19:06Collin PalmerNice. LA first and then San Francisco second. So I'll be there until Friday.

19:12Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm going to San Francisco first and LA second. Which day are we crossing?

19:22BubblemanWednesday, we're driving down. So LA, let me ask you guys a question because I've never been there, but I did watch the movie, The Money Tree. I don't know if any of you have ever seen The Money Tree, but it's an incredible movie. And Buddy says, he says, what's LA like? And he says, oh, LA is like a big submarine sandwich when you're really, really hungry and you start eating it and you're just starving.

19:45BubblemanBut then you realize there's like a big piece of shit in the middle of the sandwich, but you're so hungry, you just eat around it. Is that what LA is like?

19:54Etienne FontanYeah, pretty much. I've lived in L.A. You know, I've also lived in the good spots with Todd back when he was in Bel Air and stuff like that. So I'm kind of biased in having the nice places to stay. But I've been to there's lots of shitty places around. But, you know, it's like pockets, you know, it's like anywhere else.

20:12Dr Mark ScialdoneVery affluent areas surrounded by the barrio.

20:16DrAll the neighborhoods in New York City, like East New York, like the far reaching corners of the Bronx, and you just put them in the middle of the city.

20:24Collin PalmerThat's kind of the deal with LA. And you can't cross the city.

20:41Collin PalmerSo it'll never, ever really change without that changing as well.

20:47BubblemanSo then like the nicer areas, the nicer areas in which Etienne was talking about, I guess there's more bread there because if you have more bread in a shit sandwich, you eat less shit. Is that how it works? Lots of condiments, lots of mustard.

21:02Collin PalmerIn the Bronx, so don't get me wrong there.

21:05Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, but you're talking about Universal City, Hollywood, Beverly Hills. You're talking about some of the most affluent areas of the United States. Where they have more bread.

21:17DrI didn't even have a little cheese over there.

21:22Etienne FontanYou got a little dough. Bread that shit a little thin.

21:28DrYeah, so yeah, it's pretty much shit. Good to avoid. San Francisco is also shit. There's maps that'll tell you how much shit and where it is to avoid it, like literally. So it's gotten weird down there.

21:40Etienne FontanBut there's great places too, don't get me wrong. It's just, you know, it's a megalopolis. So you've got the good, the bad, and the ugly. And, you know, there's more bad and ugly than there are good.

21:54BubblemanWell, I'm just going to hang out up here in BC for a little while longer, I guess, and... Jon Sorrentino, Jr.: enjoy my interactions through the Internet until well it sounds like people are starting to make trips it sounds like stuff is maybe we'll be able to hug people here soon enough.

22:08Dr Mark ScialdoneJon Sorrentino, Jr.: I think June 21 they said was some date that they're going to make some proclamation on whether or not Americans can go back to Canada right is that right. Jon Sorrentino, Jr.: June 21. Jon Sorrentino, Jr.: Has anyone else heard that.

22:22Collin PalmerIt's like in New York, the Juneteenth, where you get the sun lines perfectly up with the avenue so you can get this incredible shot all the way down our view. That's what's up.

22:34DrBerkeley Hinge. So they'll let me come back to Canada as long as I identify as vaccinated, right?

22:41Johnny BI think the way it goes is I don't think we're doing that, are we? You can't come back.

22:45SpeakerIdentify.

22:46Johnny BYeah.

22:47SpeakerAnd it requires the two week quarantine. That's five grand in a hotel. But I believe that they're discussing it. And if both sides of the border are starting to show herd immunity, they'll start looking at opening up the border. The big issue is obviously both countries want to minimize the risk of variant transmission.

23:10BubblemanSo what we don't... Can we only quarantine in like $300 a night hotels? Is that what they're saying?

23:19SpeakerIt's baller. Yeah, I think it's the 14-day minimum. They test you on the first day and test you on the 10th day. But I believe if there's a certain target, if 70% of the population has their first shot, then they're going to probably allow vaccinated people to cross the border. But It's, you know, as with anything, there's many, many great plagues throughout history were spread due to travel.

23:48SpeakerBut as long as you're, you know, traveling in a safe and smart fashion and not traveling when you're sick, you know, there's minimal, there's ways to minimize that risk.

23:59DrAnd what I just got to show on my little piece of paper.

24:02Etienne FontanHopefully. Probably, yeah. Probably.

24:05BubblemanWe'll see. Let's hope not. Let's hope not. Although that little piece of paper looks pretty easy to create. Why don't you just put that on the Xerox machine and put Dustin's name on that?

24:19Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm ready, man. I'm ready.

24:21BubblemanCold disclosure, that's a felony in the United States.

24:24Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm going to spend a weekend with Marcus, man. We'll never be the same. And we're just going to show up on Hash Church one day and it'll just be me and Marcus sitting next to each other, right? And Mike too. And Mike, yeah, yeah, yeah, too. Yeah, without any- Oh, let me know.

24:39DrHey, I got my piece of paper. We're good to go. Let's go. I'm ready. Nice. You guys got the papers. They gotta open up the borders soon. They gotta.

24:47Etienne FontanWell, they're supposed to open up California on June 15th, but OSHA has made us aware that even though the state is opening up, there will be no new information for employees until July 31st. So it's still masks on in the real world for, you know, working it and doing it, unfortunately. So...

25:09DrWashington opened back up. We opened back up. I think the 30th is the day. They're going to get rid of all COVID restrictions on the 30th of this month, although they said they're going to maintain the state of emergency, which gives the governor a whole bunch of extra constitutional powers, which is strange. But currently, they've lifted the mask mandate. And there's no more restrictions. Now, some of the denser populated like Seattle, the people are still wearing masks and most of the businesses are wearing masks.

25:35DrWhere I live out in rural Washington on the coast, no mask, no restrictions. Life is back to normal. Not that it ever really left normal, but now it's actually like fully normal.

25:45BubblemanThe only thing I really want people to do here is hash. So no masks, but hash. You've got to do hash. You can't be coming on to hash church and not doing hash. So come on. There we go. We got our pipes. Here's a pipe. Actually, I think it might hit this little crazy Ewok one. This is fine. That is nice little slurper. Yeah, good, good, good little slurper.

26:06BubblemanYou know, I've got my OG slurper from JP and you can really see the difference. Yeah, in the length. This one really is much more like that. What do you call it there, Mike? The rising film evaporator style.

26:20DrYeah, that's my first thought that the path there is getting long. You get a good separation.

26:23BubblemanYeah, that's what they based it on for sure. That seems to be where they're going with it. You know, let's create a longer, thinner tube, not a wider, shorter.

26:31DrThey need a vacuum jacket, that little part right there. That would be sweet.

26:38BubblemanGet it all jacketed up. Yeah, so you get your little marbles in there. There's three of them in there. And hit a little six star. Looks like Johnny B's torch on us.

26:48Dr Mark ScialdoneI was going to ask Dustin just about some of the controversy we hear about Delta 80. What's going on on that whole thread on 4200, man? It's a pretty big and pretty controversial topic. I just want to throw that out there for discussion.

27:05DrOkay. Yeah, I knew this one was coming. I've been thinking about it a lot and trying to follow a lot. I think a lot of people assume that I'm like fully aware of everything that goes on in the forum. Impossible. No person, that's impossible. Like I have a lot, like I, okay, so Delta 8. We'll just start, a bunch of people are making. Yeah, let's start with kind of why people started making it, right?

27:32DrOkay, we're going to start at the beginning. Back in the day, we were running the short path, making distillate. It was coming out orange, yellow. Most of our short paths were like cheap Chinese glass you got on Amazon because nobody was making it. We were just piecing together chemistry sets. People were throwing all sorts of crazy ideas out there. One of them, which this is how Photon Noir broke into the scene.

27:53DrHe said, look, if you take... You know, he sold this as an SOP, but it's fully open now. If you take an activated bleaching clay, which is just like clay that's been acid washed or certain types of silica, like filter sands, all of these various medias, you can throw them into the boiling flask and the distal that comes out will be basically water clear. Not wrong is great fantastic and this is before you know we talked earlier about testing and the ubiquity of testing and and the uh how advanced these labs were this is way before any of that this is when the labs are yet testing cannabinoid content of flowers maybe they'll test cannabinoid content of your your uh extracts in Washington is a little better than other states but So you throw these things in there, it makes water clear.

28:38DrBut one thing we didn't know, because without the testing, and when you're just making a bunch of carts to send off wherever, you're not testing every single bit. What was happening is you're greatly reducing your Delta 9 content, and you're also greatly increasing a bunch of other random peaks all over. You're making like a dirty mess of distillate. One of those peaks we've now realized is Delta 8.

28:58DrAnd this is something that's been known for a long time, but the labs just finally caught up to what these scientists had back in the 60s and 70s. So we were making Delta 8.

29:08DrOn accident, making really nice looking carts. Move forward quite a few years. We've refined the technique through analytics back in. We got really high quality D8, but it's very difficult to get that last little Delta 9 out. And there's a bunch of really shady ways you can make Delta 8. And doing it that way leaves the possibility of having all sorts of nasties left in your distillate.

29:32DrAnywhere from like the reagent that you used or the catalyst that you use is something Thank you for watching.

29:56DrBut that didn't stop anybody. And for years they did that and sold it. And as far as we know, nobody like died. There's no chronic outbreak of everybody died from this batch of distillate. Now that doesn't mean that it's safe. Who knows if those people are gonna get cancer and die in 30 years or not. You know, we don't know that about smoking vape pens either. Like those might give you cancer and kill you in 30 years too.

30:17DrPoint is, When a member, Ion Trap, said, everything out there's got dangerous side compounds, cyclohexanes, all these different toxic things. My testing has showed this, this, and this. And except for this one lab, I found this one random pen that's safe and it's clean. And all of the ones I tested and yada, yada. And everybody's like, wow, this is crazy. A bunch of people jumped on it.

30:40DrA bunch of people were like, well, maybe that's a little weird. Roll back a couple of years. A lab that got involved with us, KCA, they have been active on the forum for a long time. They're out in Kentucky. They've been always upfront about everything they're doing. They sponsor competitions within us. They talk, they improve their procedures based on what we say. They hopped in and said, oh, that's interesting.

31:05DrWe wanna test a bunch of different samples. We wanna see if that's the case. And then at that same time, when they start, they crowdsource this big funding or this big testing campaign and they run through it and they get all these random samples from all over the place and they start testing them. It comes out that Ion Trap is a member of that company or works for that company that was the one clean one.

31:25DrAnd a bunch of other people start asking questions and it starts getting, it turns into this thousand long comment thread of he said, she said, what's going on here? Who's a scammer? KCA comes back and finds none of any of that in multiple different, you know, all of them. None of them had those impurities in it and they run another round and same thing. So it turns out that people actually aren't making super dangerous Delta 8.

31:50DrDelta 8, while still most of it is hot with Delta 9 because it's a very difficult process to get that last little Delta 9 out. We have yet to find a random sample that has any of these super toxic compounds. Now you can take like a palladium conversion, no, that's CBN, a PTSA, a fairly toxic acid. If you left a bunch of that in there, it would be no bueno and be pretty easy to identify, but people are not doing that.

32:20DrSo, you know, we are seeing pretty Decent like woot grade chemistry here on this Delta 8 thing. It's unfortunate what's happening on the regulatory side because of the implication that it could be unsafe or whatever it is that our federal government has up its ass about cannabinoids. It's coming through on D8. And not only does that ruin the potential for D8 for its truly medicinal value, which is that it's strongly anti-emetic.

32:52DrIt's almost absolutely anti-emetic. And that's super important for children that are getting chemotherapy, right? The way that people die when they're getting chemo a lot of time is that they're not able to feed themselves. They're not able to hold down nutrients. And with Delta-8, you can completely eliminate that problem. And then the second problem with the regulation that's coming about from this fear campaign, basically, is that it starts to affect all the other cannabinoids that have medicinal benefits.

33:22DrWe're looking at now, are we going to still be able to make CBN because of the interim D8 that perhaps gets made? Or are conversions going to be, you know, they're going to synthetic chemistry of cannabis and you can't do it anymore. It's like, so this D8 thing is a wild ride for sure.

33:41Etienne FontanI just killed a bill alone in Texas because they added Delta 8 to the hemp bill. And I've got friends in Texas who have been working on it. And that sank that one quicker than anything. It was the fastest torpedo. So the individual cannabinoid firing and misfiring is going to be a problem. It's going to be a cannabinoid whack-a-mole situation until legalization compounds. Don't you think, Dr. Scaldone?

34:07Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, I Steve Sorenson, MD, Personally, I don't have a problem with the molecule itself. The molecule is cannabinoid, so it's safe, meaning that humans can take a lot of it. It's not going to shut down your breathing. You can't OD by taking Delta-8, but I guess, you know, whether those results are real or not, what it does call for is Thank you so much for joining us today.

34:55Dr Mark ScialdoneA lot of different products there. Marcus, can you let me share my screen so we can go through some literature I pulled up here so we can talk about this? Absolutely. Can I share my screen?

35:06BubblemanSo do I hit the share screen thing? I think that's about it. That's it. Yeah.

35:11Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's it. Okay. All right. Okay. Let's see. Let's do screen.

35:16Etienne FontanAnd then select which on your page. Yeah.

35:19Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay. All right. Okay. All right. So what we're going to do is we're going to go back. Richard Kelley, M.D. : To the mushroom literature, you know this is great dustin because this is exactly what I had as a PhD chemist I mean I had not learned. Richard Kelley, M.D. : cannabinoid chemistry academically or in my graduate work or my postdoc work, I had to go and totally self immerse myself into this literature.

35:46Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd here we find a paper from Rafi from, uh, oh, this is beautiful. I think the title of this paper is actually, he's got like, I think he's got like four, there's a series of like four of these were just the chemistry of hashish. And look, this is from 1966. I'll bet you half of our viewing audience wasn't even born yet. Right. So, so look at what, look at what he describes here.

36:11Dr Mark ScialdoneSo he describes here. This is like the first time that I'm seeing this in the literature where he shows the conversion of CBD right here over into, well, here's Delta-8 and he's got an arrow going to Delta-8, but he also has an arrow going to Delta-9. And so I think he recognized right away is that you can use acid catalyzed cyclization chemistry to cyclize. And here's even something cooler for me.

36:39Dr Mark ScialdoneLook what he did after he cyclized it. He hydrogenated it. And made hexahydrocannabinol. This, I think, is one of the first reports of hexahydrocannabinol here. And you can see it gives it both a mixture of both up and down. So this is from 1966. This is from earlier in the year. Later that year, when his When his article published in the Journal of the American Chemical Society, he entitled it concerning the isomerization of Delta one to Delta one six.

37:11Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's the old nomenclature. That would be Delta nine to Delta eight these days by our by our nomenclature. And what you see here is that, yes, he does have a procedure that uses things like sulfonic acids To basically isomerize this, which is Delta 9 into Delta 8 because Delta 8 is more thermodynamically favored. But it's very interesting here because what you also see is you can see isomerization of other cannabinoids.

37:44Dr Mark ScialdoneIn this case, this here is CBC and CBC can isomerize over into this very peculiar, what's called iso THC. And so where ISO THC rears its ugly head, this is a paper from much later. So this is from, this is called The Chemical Aspects of CBD. I know this paper by heart by Hanush and Mishulam. And in this paper, he describes what happens when you take CBD and you treat it with acid.

38:20Dr Mark ScialdoneYes, you can and mostly make Delta-8 THC But under certain acidic conditions, you can make other compounds, including this isomer of THC, which is called iso THC. And in fact, this group of Italians last year published this wonderful paper on the conversion of cannabidiol via acid catalyzed intermolecular cyclization to THC isomers. And so what you can see here is that, yes, they talk about, you know, conversion to Delta 9 and Delta 8, but they also show these two other iso isomers, right, which are formed in the reaction, depending on the condition.

39:11Dr Mark ScialdoneSo depending on the conditions that you use, there's two double bonds and there's two hydroxyl groups. So, one pathway, pathway A leads to these iso products and pathway B leads to the normal products that you find in the plant, which are the THC configured materials, realizing that Delta 9 is first made and then under further acidic conditions, you just see isomerization to the more Steve Sorenson, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD,

40:10Dr Mark Scialdoneopportunity uh people can now take cbd and convert it into thc and put it into products that get people really high uh because they have thc isomers in it but what you can see here if you look at this table is that you get a plethora of different products in this reaction and even if you take their best result here their best result here is right here 93

40:37Dr Mark Scialdoneum delta eight thc well my question is what what's the other seven percent in fact they're quantifying the iso thc isomers so it's not the iso thc isomers in this case there's just seven percent other stuff So you have to assume that in that case, they're actually doing some kind of chromatography to clean it out, to turn that 93 into something like 98 or 99% plus. So you only have a very limited amount of what the unknown material is at.

41:11Dr Mark ScialdoneSo if people can make Delta A, a cannabinoid that pure, I'm all about using that as another, as Marcus would say, another arrow in the quiver of being another cannabinoid that we can make. But look at the reaction conditions here. They're using a Lewis acid called TMS triflate. That's trimethyl silyl triflate. Oh man, that's not only a really nasty Lewis acid that you can't use at larger scale, that's something that's prohibitively expensive and you would never use this in a commercial process.

41:51Dr Mark ScialdoneYou would try to get away with some cheap acid like sulfuric or some acid that you can just throw away and not have to recover, but you would, and dichloromethane, a chlorinated solvent at minus 10, no fucking way, right? So when you look at, you could find a process by which you can make a pure cannabinoid, but the wonderful thing about this for researchers like myself, Thank you.

42:18Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

42:46Dr Mark Scialdoneyou know as cannabinoid scientists we do have a crystal ball and it's called the literature and we could look into the literature and find things like this so this is great for me because i can look at my spectra and i can compare it to this like a fingerprint and see like how clean something is or how unclean something is and what i want to show you here is that so this is the proton spectrum and this peak right here This one right here at about 6.3 corresponds to the vinylic proton that's right here.

43:22Dr Mark ScialdoneWhen you isomerize delta nine over into delta eight, that proton shifts about, okay, here it is right here. It shifts from 6.3, it was over here, to about 5.4.

43:40Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I can use NMR as a diagnostic tool to say, do I have Delta eight? Do I have Delta nine? Just like you can use, just like you can use HPLC. But what's even more important is like when you look at HPLC, especially if you have the sensitivity of like a mass spectrometer, you can find all of these trace compounds. And I want to just point out one more paper from Michonne because I love this paper.

44:06Dr Mark ScialdoneIn this paper, what he was doing was he was actually using a stoichiometric oxidation to make CBN. You know, a lot of people are interested in CBN. He was using a dicyano dichloroquinone, which is a really nasty oxidant reagent to basically convert Delta-9-THC into CBN. But I love what he says about the reaction and you can just picture Ralphie's saying this because he's such a humble guy.

44:39Dr Mark ScialdoneWhere is it? I'm looking for the quote exactly. But he basically says that, well, you can't use this method because it's a really toxic method. And the reason why I wanted to point that out is because, again, what you'll see on 4200 and you'll see on other forums is that, oh, there's a literature method to make this. There's a literature method to make this. What they don't realize is that these literature methods are not John MacDonald, Production Processes to Make Pharmaceutical Type Compounds for Human Ingestion.

45:14Dr Mark ScialdoneThese are to make little amounts of milligrams of stuff to put it into testing in mice and other types of pharmaceutical type testing before it's actually developed. And I think the good thing about 4200 when I see it is that there are a lot of people who are chiming in And I can tell just from Ion Traps, what he's posting is, well, the guy's really knowledgeable. He's been in cannabinoid science for a long time.

45:44Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I like having a dialogue with someone like that. But yeah, does he have a dog in the fight? You start reading through that thread and you're like, well, there is a clean, compliant way. In fact, Dustin, am I right? That's the title of the thread. The title of the thread is a clean, compliant way to make Delta-8. So the guy kind of has a dog in a fight.

46:08Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't have a dog in this fight. But I do agree with him that it's bogus that people who are flying below regulation, who aren't regulated in this industry, are basically selling a chemical reaction product that's no longer a cannabinoid extract and whose safety Steve Adubato, CDE, Closed Captioning & Realtime Ltd. www.CDE.com

46:39Dr Mark ScialdoneYou don't just say, okay, Delta-8 sucks. Delta-8 has to be regulated like Delta-9. Unfortunately, now, if they knock it off the Controlled Dangerous Substance Act, I mean, that's one of the biggest problems with Delta-8 is it's mentioned by name in the Controlled Dangerous Substance Act under Code 7370 as a tetrahydrocannabinol. End of fucking story. That puts it outside the provisions of the Farm Bill in my non-legal sense, but

47:09DrYou know, yeah, well, the government, the government really just put its foot in its mouth.

47:13Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm going to get a drink of water.

47:14DrI'll be right back on that whole deal by Pat. On one hand, they passed off regulation of hemp over and that set this precedent. And then within that says and all analogs of within the hemp bill says that of CBD. And since I can get the D8 from CBD, that's why it It's been allowed and spread so wide because there is a legal discrepancy in Delta A.

47:42DrUp until now that states are giving specific exclusions to DA, but not the federal government, the individual states are making these decisions, which is within the rights of a state for sure.

47:56SpeakerIsn't it true that people have been extracting THC and CBD from more hempy type of products, but then they either separate the THC or they concentrate it so that instead of being 0.3%, it's more like, you know, three or four or five or 10 or 20.

48:23SpeakerAnd they think it's somehow illegal under the Farm Act.

48:28DrYeah, that's illegal.

48:30Dr Mark ScialdoneSo this distillate before remediated had about 4% by weight percent THC in it. Now it has no measurable amount of THC in it because it's gone through a process called remediation, which is a non-chromatographic process where they use heat to basically convert the THC over to CBN. And at some point, you know, it's so funny. Not, I wouldn't say it's funny, but everyone was like, oh man, CBN, man.

49:00Dr Mark ScialdoneLike, like there's, there's actually general genuine interest in CBN because CBN does have a lot of interesting properties. Everyone always thinks it's the sleep cannabinoid, but I can only find there's like one study in the literature and it's like 20 years old. Uh, yeah. So that's crystal and CBN. So. So most of the conventional knowledge, Sam, was that CBN was just some dark, tarry stuff. But no, it's the white crystalline solid as you know it is.

49:30SpeakerNo, no, the first CBN I had that was pure was white. Absolutely.

49:36Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, right. And other thing, yeah, so he's showing, so who's making that isolate right there, Dustin? You're muted.

49:49DrWe make this one at Future Compounds, which is our kind of compounding lab in Vegas.

49:58SpeakerThat's CBN isolate. You held up several tubes. One was dark colored. Which one was that?

50:06DrThis is the CBN distillate.

50:09SpeakerOkay, I get it.

50:12DrYep. So this is like right after the conversion. It's still a distillate. It has not been washed yet either. We do several liquid to liquid separations throughout the process to, you know, add or extract various, you know, the reactants.

50:25Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's the percentage at that point of CBN purity in the distillate?

50:32DrI don't know. I couldn't tell you. It's only teared. I'm not involved.

50:35Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the white crystalline stuff is easy to say 98, 99% pure. I mean, 99 plus. Yeah. White and crystalline like that.

50:44DrSure.

50:44SpeakerYep. Do you have CBC?

50:47DrNot in bulk currently. Or CBCA? Definitely not. Not yet.

50:53Dr Mark ScialdoneSo Sam, is CBC also a white solid?

50:58SpeakerYes, you can, if you get it, CBCA, I believe, was, I don't remember with CBC.

51:06Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay. Yeah, I don't think there is CBC isolate out there, is there?

51:14SpeakerAnything is possible.

51:17Dr Mark ScialdoneHe's not wrong. Have the genetics caught up yet? Genetics or synthesis, that's how you're going to get it, right?

51:25SpeakerRight. I mean, the cheap way is with genetics. Once you've got a variety that produces CBD, if you don't have a THC problem with it, then it just gets mass produced, mass produced, mass produced until, you know, the bubble pops.

51:42Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. Well, I thought we were talking about this at last hash church. There is some tech that talked about conversion of CBD to CBC.

51:53DrNow, Mark, I think it's CBG over to CBC.

52:00SpeakerOkay. Well, you know me, I'm just a simple plant guy. But chemistry, I leave to smarter folks like you folks.

52:14Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, I mean, it's not necessarily smarter, but, you know, it's a little more detailed. I mean, the cool thing is, again, so, Dustin, was this some of the literature that you kind of started with here, the Meshulam stuff, or where did you, when you started your deep dive, where did you begin?

52:34DrOh, just in general? Yeah. Well, so first Google Scholar. And then, of course, if you spend any time over there, you're going to come up with a bunch of mesh loom. And then I also purchased a book. I was at a bookstore in Seattle and it is the It's at Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, Volume 191, Issue 1, Marijuana Chemistry, Pharmacology, and Patterns of Social Use, December 1971.

53:02DrAnd it was there in, it was the last time that they were gonna meet and talk about So it was all cannabis. They were all shutting down all of their cannabis research because the government was no longer, you know, that's when everything changed and they weren't allowed to do research anymore. And so it was like just a dump of everything they had and they're like, look, we're getting rid of this.

53:20DrWe're moving on to other things. So here's everything that we know. And some of the things that I found really interesting in there was they had made every single different kind of cannabinoid they could theoretically come up with. They're throwing random shit at it. Oh, here's all these new ones. We'd isolated it down. And then they were taking that and feeding it to dogs and feeding it, injecting it, smoking them in a little box.

53:39DrDogs and rats and monkeys and all sorts of stuff. And some of the cannabinoids that they listed in this book are wild and just killed the animals dead, no problem. Like, oh, they're dead. You could definitely overdose on that one. And at that time, we were doing pretty large scale, like this bucket tech, backyard, ethanol, and then doing to crude and then distillation. And we just started getting into photons, throw the bleach and clay into the boiling flask.

54:09DrRight there when I read that, I was like, oh shit, what if I'm making something that's going to kill all these dumb monkeys? Like, that's not going to be good. So I went on.

54:18Dr Mark ScialdoneIt makes sense because, again, when you treat these things with acid, I mean, THC in the Delta 9 configuration is only metastable. And converting over to Delta 8, you know, people were always under this misconception that Delta 8 is made in the plant. It's not made in the plant. The biosynthetic pathway ends at Delta 9 configured cannabinoids. And any conversion over to Delta 8 is just adventitious from humans fucking with it, right?

54:47Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it's kind of like... You get to the point where, well, okay, so what that means is over the millennia and humans using cannabis, people have consumed Delta-8. Delta-8 is a minor cannabinoid that's part of that commish. Yeah, it's a degradation component, but so are all those hydroxylated cannabinoids that El Soli keeps finding on his moldy weed, you know?

55:20Dr Mark ScialdoneSo all those degradation components, are they really going to get you? If you look at it, actually, it's interesting. So if you look at those El Soli hydroxylated intermediates, they're all hydroxylated, which, by the way, is a hallmark of biological degradation, oxidation. They're all hydroxylated in and around that cyclohexane ring, right? Because it's trying to turn the thing into bio food or whatever, but ultimately all those things are going to thermally eliminate to give CBN.

55:55Dr Mark ScialdoneSo like you can smoke University of Mississippi's moldy weed with those hydroxylated things, but what you're going to get when you inhale that is CBN because at nail temperature, those things are all going to thermally dehydrate and make CBN.

56:11SpeakerI always said that CBN got me loaded, but it didn't get me high.

56:18Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, there you go. Right, exactly. Loaded but not high. That's a good way to describe it. But like Sam, when those guys were discovering these new cannabinoids and saying, oh, look at all these. It's funny that those are only found on the cannabinoids around the cannabis that they grow down at the University of Mississippi.

56:38DrAnd that just changed, right? That just opened up. They just gave out multiple more licenses. Did Dr. Sue get one?

56:46Dr Mark ScialdoneThey did. I don't know. I hadn't been following that close enough.

56:49DrMaybe it changed like a week ago. The guy was on Joe, the founder of MAPS was on Joe Rogan and he was talking about it as well. He got his license that they applied for in like 2001.

57:00Etienne FontanDr. Sue is one of those that is top of the list. Yeah, that's fantastic.

57:07Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, I think it was Sue who kind of blew the whistle on the fact that a lot of that cannabis was moldy.

57:14DrShe sued him.

57:15Dr Mark ScialdoneShe sued the show. Oh, yeah.

57:16Etienne FontanIt caused a lot of controversy because, you know, people thought, oh, government weed must be fine. But as we know, because I tested it back in, what, 2009 or 2010, and it failed molds and moldies.

57:29Dr Mark ScialdoneMy point or... My point more eloquently made is that even when the stuff goes moldy, those compounds are just fine and safe for humans, right? They're stable. Yeah, who was the guy who got the can of joints every day or whatever was his name? Robert Randall.

57:48Etienne FontanWell, Robert Randall was patient one, but currently there's one patient out of Florida.

57:55Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. So, I mean, there's people who smoke that weed like it's no tomorrow, right? And, and.

58:00BubblemanDude, he was loving it. We, we had a whole conversation with him and it actually made me think a lot because of course, you know, this is back when Todd was on the show. We're all like, dude, we got to get you better weed. We're going to figure this out. Like you need better weed. And he was like, listen, guys, this weed is perfect for me. Like, it's just, I really quite enjoy it.

58:22BubblemanAnd we were all just like,

58:25SpeakerI had a similar discussion with Robert Randall when he was still alive. And I said, well, you know, if marijuana has all this great, you know, benefits for glaucoma for you, then wouldn't hashish be even better? And he actually looked at me straight in the face and says, hashish doesn't have medical benefit. And I was quite shocked and quite surprised and Thank you for watching.

59:13Etienne FontanRobert, I'm just talking in urban Spence because I've had multiple conversations specifically. I'm not talking Robert. Robert, rest in peace. But although we do work with Alice, she's been assisting us veterans in all of our different filings and keeping us up to date. So, you know, yeah, the 20th anniversary of his death just passed on the 2nd. So rest in peace, Robert.

59:40SpeakerChip really hit the fan. Okay, so he got it. And I think eight or 10 or whatever other compassionate programs who are available for cannabis from the government. But then he showed the AIDS community how to apply. And there were like 1000 applications. And the government, federal government stopped the compassionate program altogether. But it grandmothered those eight or whatever it was into the program for life.

1:00:10DrAnd now it's down to one.

1:00:15DrHey, Mark, that link I just posted into the chat is Meshulum 68, chloranyl dehydrate or dehydration of cannabinoids, total synthesis of cannabichrome. So he did CBC and it looks like I think he starts it from THC. And then he goes from THC to CBN and then from CBN to CBC, I believe.

1:00:42Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I've read every one of his papers, I'll have to admit. I've read several of his papers several times. Sometimes I go back and I read him again, just read him again. I've read his paper so much, I could hear him speaking as he's writing these things and it's just, The connection that we have with the chemical literature, which is just fantastic. And I think like what I always sensed from Hash Church, like in the early days when Horatio said, hey, Mark, you got to come on because Tony was talking bullshit.

1:01:25Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd he wanted me to set Tony straight. You know, he's like, Tony's talking terpenes, man. Will you come on Hash Church? Steve Adubato, CFO Alphabet and Google

1:01:55Dr Mark ScialdoneJust fascinating because I think they knew the importance of the chemistry that they were doing. I think the thing that really made Adams's chemistry just kind of go away was World War II, right? I mean, he published like 13 papers in less than three years between 1939 and 1941. Then World War II happened and they just kind of forgot about it. But, you know, Mushulam, I think in his movie, he talks about this.

1:02:23Dr Mark ScialdoneHe tried to write off for And I H funding in the early sixties to study the chemistry of the cannabis plan. And the NIH was like, go blow. Then after he reported Delta nine isolated, they came over and smuggled the 10 grams that he had made. Back to Bethesda and did all kinds of secret government work in the NIH on it where they came up with Axelrod's patent on neuroprotection.

1:02:55Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's this whole secret agenda that the government had on cannabis while they were locking up hippies because Richard Nixon thought that We've got a lot more to talk about. We've got a lot more to talk about. We've got a lot more to talk about. We've got a lot more to talk about.

1:03:33Dr Mark ScialdonePeople are doing research to where I'm reading, I just read this paper about MDMA to treat PTSD. I mean, it's just, it's fucking amazing, right? Where we are today in the use of, yeah, psychedelics and cannabinoids and just a great, great place where we are right now.

1:03:59Dr Mark ScialdoneThanks to people like Marcus for putting Hash Church and you for putting Thank you so much for joining us today. We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back.

1:04:14BubblemanI like all the different discussions. It's, you know, for quite a while, Dragonfly Earth Medicine was in the chat kind of going like, fuck putting chemicals on shit. And like, no, that's the whole plant is better medicine. And I totally get that perspective. And I'm not like, I just find it super interesting, all of this information and taking apart the plant and learning about it. And, uh, Sort of expanding our knowledge on it.

1:04:40BubblemanI do also see value in it, A, for the science alone, but also for specific sort of patients. Like, yeah, of course, listen, if you can get some beautifully living soil, organic, you know, fed whole plant medicine or an extract through water extraction or something, yeah, that's amazing. But, you know, the example I always use is that that Aaron Ward- The profiles change and that they're hard to reformulate if you don't do things like this.

1:05:09BubblemanAnd there are, you know, like Haley Rose, Haley's Comet, which John could speak of as well, that sometimes that would work. And then sometimes it wouldn't work and it would just change the slightest little bit in maybe the grow room variable. And now her medicine no longer worked and her seizures were super or are super serious. They're not lightweight seizures. These are like, you know, potential life ending.

1:05:36BubblemanAll of those are critical style seizures. And so to be able to like find exactly what works for her and then be able to just take plants apart, maybe multiple plants to put that profile together, make it accurate and be able to give that to her. Like to me, I see a value in that. I get where they're coming from. They're very passionate about that side, and I hope they come in later and share with us about that side.

1:06:03BubblemanBut you've got to be careful when you're super passionate about one side that you're not making a bunch of assumptions in repelling the other side. What Hash Church has taught me is to be more open. Like, am I dabbing on distillate right now? Like, no, I'm dabbing on six-star bubble hash, and that's okay. But You know, we've got to allow the conversation, at least among ourselves, to be able to discuss these things.

1:06:30BubblemanAnd that's all I'll say about it.

1:06:33DrLook, I like fresh rainwater straight from the or maybe straight from the spring. It's beautiful. But I also like pickles and I have to take that water, mix it with pickles, do a process to end up with those pickles. Both are great. Doesn't mean I sometimes don't want water and sometimes I want pickle juice, but I had to go through the process that this Aaron Weiss, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD,

1:07:15DrI might also take some of that and turn a little bit into D8. And if that means we can't be friends, then so be it. But it doesn't mean it's going to stop me from doing it.

1:07:26BubblemanFor sure. Well, they're going to come in later. They're just really busy right now.

1:07:29DrGreat.

1:07:30BubblemanExcellent. They're good folks. They're the greatest of folks. I could feel his passion. I know also that their souls are absolutely being crushed right now by the last 2.7% of our rainforests in British Columbia, our elder forests are getting... So I'm hoping they're kind of going to cut in as well.

1:07:52Etienne FontanDustin, do you know that you're sharing your screens?

1:07:54BubblemanIt's a pretty fucked up situation that's going on here in BC.

1:07:58DrYeah, I want to talk about that too.

1:08:00BubblemanOkay, go ahead, man.

1:08:04DrSo I want to start. Let's circle back on the on the trees, too, because we have the same thing happening down here in Washington. Absolutely. There we go. Okay. So let me move. Trying to. There we go. Take it off, Colin. Out of the way.

1:08:22Collin PalmerYeah, I got to get going, boys. It was everyone. It was really nice to see you all. I'll catch you guys on the next show. I got to get it ready to fly.

1:08:31Dr Mark ScialdoneTake care, Colin.

1:08:33Collin PalmerHave a beautiful, beautiful Sunday, everyone. Peace out, brother.

1:08:38Johnny BPeace out, brother. Have a good day.

1:08:41DrYeah, so we got right here. It says CBG, cannabigerol, and they label it as VII. Yeah, that's just a description. Yep, dehydrogenated with chloronyl and benzene, which like you were talking about, yuck. And then, you know, they explain how and why it ends up converting itself to cannabichromine, which they've labeled as VIII in a pretty decent yield, especially since we can now bulk grow CVG in the field.

1:09:15DrAnd here is the You can just see the move. Here's VII. So CBG goes with chloronyl in that benzene soup to VII.

1:09:25Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. So let's just talk about chloronyl for a second. So this is a chlorinated aromatic that basically makes dioxin type compounds when it's consumed. I mean, Dr. Matthew Sholl, MD, Again, if you're going to make this in a laboratory, it's one thing. If you're going to make this for human ingestion, gotta be something just completely different. You know, the other thing that I would worry about with this kind of thing is that, so this, The reason why I pointed this out, Dustin, is just as an example.

1:09:53Dr Mark ScialdoneHere's literature where you could say, okay, there's a method out there. That's it. That's all I need to know, right? So a guy in a warehouse or in a garage would say, well, here's a method. What equipment do I need? Let's piece it together. Let's figure this shit out. He did it so we can do it. I guess the other important thing, and again, I know Colin would agree with me that One of the big issues I think is not just necessarily the way that you're making this, but being able to have the intellectual capacity to understand that you need to develop a process for commercialization, run it several times.

1:10:34Dr Mark ScialdoneWhenever you run a commercial process, I think Marcus, you'd probably agree with me, especially when it comes to Stuff that's related to cannabis. So there's variables in it that sometimes subtly change. We can't tell with our naked eye or it takes very sophisticated looking at, you know, many, many different properties to be able to reproduce a process time and time again to make the consistency that you need for something that's going to go into into people.

1:11:09Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so not only do you need the analytical controls, but you need to be able to run that process four and five times, look at the data and see what kind of spread you get. So like in a process like this where it says, I don't know, 95% yield, well, what if you run it again and next time it's 98? Or what if you run it next time it's 88?

1:11:30Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you're going to have this constantly moving thing that You need to be able to standardize. And the thing that I really don't like about using a stoichiometric oxidant like this is it makes stoichiometric waste. In this case, it's chlorinated halogen, halogenated chlorinated waste. Chlorinated phenols are the synthetic precursors to dioxins. So these things, if they haven't made dioxins, will go to a landfill and make dioxins in a landfill.

1:12:04Dr Mark ScialdoneThis is just not good, not practical, would never be scaled up commercially today.

1:12:10DrSure. And sorry, I got to echo things.

1:12:19DrSo yeah, this is how we got to Delta 8, right? Oh, well, no, we got to Delta 8 on accident. But once we realized what we were doing, this is how we progressed Delta 8. We went into the literature, saw that they were doing crazy things with crazy solvents and acids that most of us can't even get our hands on. So that's step one. Most of these, and that's changing as these, like our future compounds lab, we now have access to quite a bit of stuff.

1:12:41DrBut we've never sold any of our intermediates and never would because it's not safe. It needs a lot of cleanup. There's lots of processes. And yes, we obviously want to use the cheapest, safest solvents and acids possible. And that's always where we start and work in that direction.

1:13:00Dr Mark ScialdoneJustin, look what he says right here on this paragraph to the right. Work done by our group and others has shown that one, which is Delta-9, can be readily isomerized to Delta-2 in the presence of peritoneal and sulfonic acid and nearly quantitative... That's it. That's it. They're off to the races. They're a chemist now, right?

1:13:22DrYeah.

1:13:23Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I'm a chemist out of a bunch of people by listening to that.

1:13:27DrYeah, that's there's the secret. There's the big giant secret right there that's made a lot of people a lot of money in the last couple of years.

1:13:34Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Yeah. Anyway, sorry to keep hijacking the conversation market.

1:13:42Dr Mark ScialdoneThis is a fun moment.

1:13:43BubblemanI'm chatting in the chat room. You guys keep going.

1:13:49DrGreat. Yeah, and you're right about the waste products because you can get all of this to a safe spot. Now, could you do that, you know, cost effectively? I don't know, but you can, you know, wash, scrub, pass through chroma, get it to an isolated compound. You know, like we take this isolate that's at 99.8% or 99.9%.

1:14:12DrIn CBN isolate, right? There could have been lots of nasty shit happening before that, that now is not present in this, right? I mean, it's not radioactive. And besides that, at this purity, you know, disregarding the idea that we're throwing away a bunch of nasty shit, or in theory, we're throwing a bunch of nasty shit. We've got to, we have to have a pretty clean process for this CBN, but right.

1:14:33DrLike when we read through this literature, some of these, like, and they go through, you know, A lot of this, they get to an isolate point and then are checking it on NMR. They say that at the beginning of this paper. That's how they've confirmed. So they're getting this stuff to some ultra purity, right? That CBC that they made with this nasty process that they got to purity would, in theory, be safe to consume, right?

1:14:59Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, but again, to use chromatography on the laboratory scale where you're just, you know, putting a column together with 60 grams of silica, if you had to do that and make, you know, several hundred kilos of material, it would be not only cost prohibitive, but I mean, the process chemistry and the equipment that you would need All of that takes a substantial investment.

1:15:22DrOf course. But now let's just compare it to pharmaceutical. There are certain drugs that are insanely expensive because the only way that they can get there, well, politics aside, the only way they can get there is through that investment that you said. It took so much money to scale up this entire thing that when we get this 1% of 1% yield, that's the magical medicine. Now that may have gone through a nasty process to get there, right?

1:15:50Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah, I mean, when you're discovering a medicine, there's usually two phases. There's a discovery. John MacDonald, You do a lot of discovery and you try to find new structures and you make a lot of different compounds, basically assembling Legos in different ways. Then when you find your set of Legos, you take that into what's called lead development. So you find out that that not only has the biological activity you're looking for, but hopefully some sort of safety assessment or safety assessment on the metabolites of when somebody eats This is a pill.

1:16:22Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's going to happen inside the body? And you look at a lot of different things when it comes to safety assessment, because again, a drug is not a food ingredient. But again, the pharmaceutical mantra is to certainly hook you for life and to make sure that you have to take this medicine for the rest of your life. I would assume that, again, the discovery phase can use all kinds of chemistry to get there to discover the molecule.

1:16:52Dr Mark ScialdoneBut then the most important phase is the development phase, which is where you take that initial molecule or compound that's been discovered and now think about how do we actually make a manufacturing process To make this and we're not going to necessarily use the laboratory synthesis to make it because the laboratory synthesis uses all this toxic expensive crap that we can't use on the shit ton scale and to make this drug we need to make it on a shit ton scale and we can't just create a bunch of You know, for every one pound of product, you create 20 pounds of waste.

1:17:28Dr Mark ScialdoneThat doesn't work.

1:17:30DrSo, Mark, when they're doing that process, before they go to the manufacturing scale, they've done their safety testing, right?

1:17:38Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, typically, you do...

1:17:41DrInitial research, testing.

1:17:42Dr Mark ScialdoneYou do lots of testing. Recording stopped? No way. We're out. Are we out? I don't know. No. Recording in progress. There we go.

1:17:54BubblemanThe button was pressed. I don't know how that happened, but yeah, I restarted. Now I'm going to have to upload this in like two podcasts. Damn.

1:18:02Dr Mark ScialdoneDamn.

1:18:03BubblemanNow, I guess continue, continue on, gentlemen. If you're not one sec, if you're not going to continue to share the screen, because that's all anyone can see right now. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah.

1:18:14Bryan Best Friend FarmsSo just yeah, there you go. Perfect.

1:18:17SpeakerNo problem. We need to make the second half better than the first half. That way, everybody won't even tune in to the first half. Let's go right to the hardcore.

1:18:29Johnny BAnd it's actually one minute warning. It's going to be 420 in Cape Kate Verdue in one minute, 47 seconds. So let's do a Mark.

1:18:40DrJust my last point on that and we can move on is that in the lab, they're doing that, you know, maybe a nasty workup to get there. But that is that compound then what they're doing the initial round of safety testing on like we have this isolated drug that was made with all these fluorinated whatever. So safety is based on the nastiest and then I'm sure they progress and they're doing continuous safety.

1:19:00DrSo but in theory, the drugs may even get safer than when they started because they were made with a cleaner process.

1:19:06Dr Mark ScialdoneIdeally, the discovery compound is purified to absolute purity, 100% purity. It doesn't matter.

1:19:14DrThat's the point I was trying to get to. So if you're going through that CVC made with that nasty process I just had shared, if it was brought to purity cost, who cares? Because maybe it's the elixir of life, right? And I'm a rich guy. Maybe I'm going to try CVC first and see if it lets me live forever. So I'm willing to spend whatever. I don't care how nasty the process was.

1:19:32Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, maybe you could run it through the wiper a bunch of times, clean it up enough, and then make a distillate and crash it out. Who knows? But I think the point is, and Marcus, we can move on after this. I hate to belabor this point, but I think the 4,200 discussion is more along the lines of this is why we need it. It needs to be produced in a regulated environment because of all these potential things that could potentially happen.

1:19:59Dr Mark ScialdoneIs this guy right that he says, oh, my method works, but everybody else's method shits on everybody else, says that everybody else has got toxic shit, but his stuff, oh, it's really clean. We don't know. But if it's all manufactured in a regulated environment, it would be done so in a way where we would know what the right SOP is that makes something that's safe for human consumption.

1:20:24Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd hopefully they would have the right analytical techniques in there to know when a batch does not meet product specification and you got to throw it away. Right now, when a product doesn't meet product specification for vape, I think they put it into gummies. That's like the solution of, oh, I can't get this through a vape COA manufacturer because they're going to look at it and say, What's all this other crap in there?

1:20:49Dr Mark ScialdoneBut you put it into some dark oil and put it into gummies or chocolates and it's okay, you know.

1:20:55DrDilution is a solution to pollution, my friend.

1:21:00Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Anyway.

1:21:02BubblemanWhat do you have to say about that, Mike West? You're being quiet over there. I feel like you got some things to say.

1:21:09SpeakerYeah, I think ultimately a lot of the hemp processors had to look at As they're processing and working a pimp, you are going to be trying to isolate them in general CBD. That CBD during the isolation, you're going to obviously pull off the other cannabinoids, which saw the increased valuation, but also saw the development of accumulation of THC that then had to get remediated. And people have looked at obviously turning Those other cannabinoids into potential revenue streams, right?

1:21:47SpeakerSo the many of these hemp labs are trying to generate revenue streams in their own unique way, whether by isolating or remediating or converting those cannabinoids into other cannabinoids and formulating them into different products. And that's one of those things that can be done safely, but obviously I agree with Dr. Mark needs to be done in a regulated environment because we don't want products being sold in gas stations that haven't been produced and been COA'd.

1:22:23SpeakerBecause there's obvious legal ramifications if somebody who, let's say we're producing it and it's a product that causes somebody who eats a gummy bear at a truck station to become intoxicated. We're starting to see that with the development of CBC and Delta A,

1:23:09SpeakerIt's a wonderful way that we can mitigate THC as well as convert some of the CBD into new products. But obviously, if we try and distribute them freely instead of, say, distributing them in adult-only venues, then it can create an unwanted attention that comes back and ends up generating Mike, I was on a, I was on a zoom call the other night with a group of cannabis executives

1:24:05Dr Mark ScialdoneUh, both on the hemp and on the cannabis side. And, um, the fellow who invited me on, wanted me to kind of break down Delta eight. And one of the stories that was shared was an executive who again is well versed in the cannabis space and a long time user and a CEO of a large cannabis company in California. And. Traveled to an area and bought some.

1:24:35Dr Mark ScialdoneActually, you know, what he told me was they went to the the vaping expo, which is typically mostly nicotine, mostly nicotine products and device manufacturers and whatnot, people who work in those supply chains. And he said this year it was very different. He said it was 20 percent nicotine, 80 percent Delta eight. 80% of the people at the vaping thing were all Delta A hustlers or Delta A product manufacturers or whatever.

1:25:14Dr Mark ScialdoneSo he brought back a couple of products back on the plane in California with him and he showed an energy shot that he said, yeah, he had, you know, first class tickets, so he had a really comfortable seat and everything. Took a shot and he said about 10 to 15 minutes later, he had an incredible feeling of wonderful euphoria like he'd never experienced with Delta 9. And being a longtime user, you know, he's like, wow, this is great.

1:25:47Dr Mark ScialdoneLike, this is wonderful because it tastes good. You know, so he took a few more sips of it. Well, he said about 10 minutes later, he started feeling a knot in his stomach. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

1:26:27Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it's probably chuck-loaded with that iso THC isomer, which we don't know what kind of impact that has on long-term and short-term health. And so you're absolutely right. This does need to be regulated because, and I think, again, some of the, correct me if I'm wrong, but some of the biggest markets for Delta 8 now are some of the most cannabis-unfriendly states. There's the states that don't have a strong Delta 9 lobby.

1:26:56Dr Mark ScialdoneIf you see like what's happened in Colorado and what I believe was happening in the other states is the Delta 9 lobby doesn't want Delta 8 at all, right? They want you, you know, there's a certain level of rigor when it comes to Delta 9 production that's just not applied to Delta 8. So I hate to sit on a cannabinoid because I know it's safe and I know it's a good cannabinoid and I know it's good for those kids.

1:27:21Dr Mark ScialdoneBut it's just so unfortunate that we're in this situation that's only been made possible through the ridiculousness of prohibition itself, that we're stuck in this current situation. I don't really know how it will resolve.

1:27:37SpeakerYeah, Canada, when Canada passed the regulations for THC on the federal level, they made it actually not just THC, but the extraction of all cannabis. So if you're going to do any of the cannabinoids, CBD or THC, it all falls under the recreational processing licenses. You can separately get licensed for production or processing of hemp, but the minute you start extracting it, then you have to have the regulatory licenses.

1:28:07SpeakerAnd ultimately, that's one of the things that has yet to be addressed. I think once you have the FDA involved, Whether it be a food product or a drug product, topical or ingestible or inhalable otherwise, they're going to have to implement some production regulatory environments, and that's in general going to require a requirement of COA. You're going to have to be able to have a COA and, you know, That's going to be not only required by your insurance broker, but also by the Federal Regulatory Commission in the US.

1:28:45SpeakerThat's going to be the FDA, potentially the DEA or ETF. But it's one of those things that's regulated. If we're doing a caffeinated beverage, You know, or a THC beverage, you got to make sure that that beverage is not going to be poisoning your customers because the regulatory requirements are going to make your insurance too expensive. Plus, you know, bad press, poisoning your customers, you're going out of business, right?

1:29:16SpeakerSo it's one of those things in the unregulated industry, which, you know, a lot of the hemp processors kind of fall in that legal gray area where they're operating with a state hemp license, but many of those state hemp licenses Don't, that regulatory framework doesn't cover all of the, you know, not only the extraction, but chemosynthesis. So I think that as the Food and Drug Administration gets involved on a federal level, that you're going to start to see, you know, CBD, THC, all the isomerization, acetylcholation, and other, you know, chemosynthetic conversions require safety trials before they go to a commercial market.

1:29:59SpeakerAnd that's something that can be done at universities here in Canada. But when we were trying to do them down in the States, we ended up having to look at you doing those product trials abroad because doing research at universities is difficult with the night of monopoly. We hope that with this news a couple of weeks ago, that's going to open up the door because we'll absolutely Some of the licensed producers will be able to actually work and develop genetics that are formulated.

1:30:28SpeakerWe can extract and formulate them and prepare them. But I mean, it's a long time coming. And we don't want to hold our breath. We don't want to tell the patients to hold their breath to be able to formulate these products for them. So until the federal regulatory framework comes out, We kind of need to use these forums, peer review and peer self-regulate, use that self-regulation to create a better industry that can set an example so that we can educate the regulators on what needs to be included.

1:31:02SpeakerYou know, I'm actually quite appalled that there's still states, you know, some of the licensed states that allow recreational still don't require pesticide testing. Some of them did. And there's been ebbs and flows. Washington had an outright ban on aerobic bacteria, which was really bad for the organic farmers. And then a couple of years after regulation on the recreational level, they allowed some bacteria. They just required you to test the mycotoxins.

1:31:36SpeakerSo I think in other places, Oregon's always had a fairly strict pesticide thing. I don't think Oregon required heavy metals in the first round, heavy metal testing. And then some of the other states, California's kind of had more progress. They started fairly loose in the medical scene. And as it's transitioned to recreational, testing's gotten a lot stricter. So I think each of those states are acting as laboratories of democracy.

1:32:07SpeakerAnd I have no doubt the feds are Chris Brown, Keeping paying attention to see what's happening in each of those states, working on a federal level to figure out how they're going to create those regulations.

1:32:20Dr Mark ScialdoneMark Warren, Yes, to everything you said.

1:32:24SpeakerChris Brown, Yes, so I mean and and ultimately mark I mean. Because it is chemosynthesis, right? It's not just extraction.

1:32:36Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah, the conversion. Well, it's interesting because Dustin started talking about just basically the isomerization of Delta 8. And so I'm sorry, the isomerization of Delta 9, right? So just starting with extract and distilling it down to a crude and now you have Delta 9. Well, now all I'm going to do is throw a little bit of dirt I eat clay at this, which is bed night clay.

1:33:05Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's what these acidic clays are. You know, if you if you push a roller coaster down the hill, it goes down the hill and it doesn't come back. So that's the thing with Delta nine going to Delta eight. And so I think that that way of making Delta eight And enriching a distillate sample with Delta-8 is inherently more safer than a chemical conversion of CBD isolate through Delta-8 or to Delta-8.

1:33:46Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know if I just confused everyone. So converting Delta-9 into Delta-8 I think is safer than converting CBD into Delta-8. Does that make sense, Dustin?

1:34:00SpeakerJust like a full spectrum, you know, let's say a CBC hash, organically grown hash, if it's grown organically and it's a cultivar that naturally expresses those cannabinoids and terpenes, it would be preferable to process them naturally, right? As opposed to having to worry about, you know, taking, taking another cannabinoid to go through the dirty chemistry, which can be cleaned up, but then you have waste products and we all, we, As environmentalists want to minimize those waste products.

1:34:34SpeakerRight.

1:34:34Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's no longer an extract. And I guess, you know, again, on the other side, I'll say, well, I'm just going to take an extract and throw something natural like clay, which is acidic, not realizing that also cleaning up the color is converting this extract, you know, I guess that's better because you can't form the other ISO THC that way because the THC ring structure is already formed, I guess.

1:35:11Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I'm inherently just thinking that that's a safer way. So if you have to make Delta 8, have a Delta 9 license, and convert some of your Delta 9 to Delta 8, and you're good with Dr. Mark.

1:35:27DrYeah. And, and you can even, we've just, I've put crude in a, in a apparatus and distilled over and it made Delta 8 with no presence of anything other than just the crude. And it was just like a kind of a, yeah, just heat and whatever came off the plant.

1:35:42Dr Mark ScialdoneHeat was basically the wheels of the roller coaster going down the hill. You use acid. So what acid does is acid makes the hill that the roller coaster goes down smaller. Acid lowers the activation energy in between Delta 8 and Delta 9. But what you're doing with heat is you're just pushing it down the hill. In fact, you got to remember you did that in glassware, right, Dustin?

1:36:06Dr Mark ScialdoneGlassware is acidic. Glassware essentially in and of itself is salicylic acid, right? So salicylic acid is an acid, right? So glassware itself can catalyze this reaction.

1:36:19DrMark, you shared a paper with me that was basically just heat turning CBD into all sorts of crazy different cannabinoids, right? And just through heat alone. So if I'm smoking a bowl in a glass pipe, I'm getting all sorts of cannabinoid conversions just from the heat right there into my lungs.

1:36:35Dr Mark ScialdoneYou could. Yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There's a guy out there, Marcus Rogan. I didn't see his talk, but he gave a talk last week or a couple of weeks ago about he's doing some aerosolization studies, or I don't know if he's got the joint smoking machine or. Is that at UMBC?

1:36:54BubblemanYeah, that guy.

1:37:00Dr Mark ScialdoneSo he's doing, Marcus, what he claims is that the THC never vaporizes and never reaches its boiling point. And at some aerosol formation of liquid THC in weed smoke. So I don't know. I mean, the other interesting aspect about it is he said that, yeah, he's like, what is, you know, joint smoke is not hot enough to vaporize T8C. And it's like, wait a second. Are you talking about the actual hots of the joint?

1:37:35Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's thousands of degrees, man.

1:37:38BubblemanThat's Marcus Rogan, right? Dr. That guy.

1:37:41Dr Mark ScialdoneThat guy.

1:37:42BubblemanYeah. I, you know what? I just, it, it just, I was like, this sounds really familiar. So I went into my phone and my emails. And I reached out to him on February 27th. He got back to me and I guess I just sort of spaced getting, he got back to me twice. So now I'm going to have to send him back an email. Yeah, he'd be an interesting guy to go to church.

1:38:06Dr Mark ScialdoneI know him, truth be told. But I think some of his ideas are a little flaky at best and just they're not always scientifically grounded. So it would make for a very, Interesting, lively Ash Church discussion with Dr. Ronan.

1:38:21DrNow you've called him out, so.

1:38:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I know. He's going to kill me now. No, but I'm just saying, you know, to come up with this concept that you're not actually vaporizing THC, it's like, well, okay, then how does my dab rig work? Tell me exactly. I'm creating some kind of aerosol that jets through the water, right? I don't know, it just doesn't sound grounded to me.

1:38:48BubblemanHey, I want to welcome Best Friend in the House and Dragonfly Earth Medicine. Welcome, guys. What's going on, dude? Hey, Josh and Kelly, how are you? Just farming. I feel like that's what you guys are up to, farming. That's what farmers do. Is that what the Dragonfly Earth Medicine farm crew has been up to as well?

1:39:17DrYou look frozen. Maybe I'm frozen. Everyone else is moving. No, you're not frozen.

1:39:26Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineEverything dialed in and watered and our internet. I can hear you now.

1:39:41BubblemanI can hear you now. You were frozen and I couldn't hear you. And then I suddenly heard you while I was, okay, yes, I think you're coming through better now. Let's give that a shot.

1:39:53Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm not sure if it's working, but it's like a psychedelic experience to see if you're like hearing us or if we're talking and it's like glitchy. It's like, oh shit. And then you're on time and you're off time.

1:40:04DrIt's like, fuck, you know?

1:40:07Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut big love and respect to everyone here today. And we appreciate the conversation.

1:40:12SpeakerYeah. And just wanted to say, you know, in response to what you were saying, Marcus, we do feel like, you know, these conversations are incredibly important. We do feel like all facets of the wheel need to be discussed. In order to understand how it rolls evenly and equally, you know, it's like the Dharma wheel. If all the spokes on the Dharma wheel are not taught perfectly, then the wheel doesn't roll properly.

1:40:38SpeakerAnd all of these conversations are all part of the spokes of the wheel into us finding our ultimate health and our ultimate placement on this earth right now. And how are we going to move forward this plant? And I think that all of these conversations are incredibly important. And we're always going to uphold the spoke in the wheel that is the full spectrum, that is the fully regenerative, because that's our expertise and that's what we uphold.

1:41:09SpeakerBut we want to say how much we respect and admire this conversation and the deep science that goes into it, because it is important to have all of the colors of the rainbow involved.

1:41:20Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat's why we're humans, because we're all part of the rainbow.

1:41:26BubblemanNice. I like it. Humans.

1:41:29DrI like it. Can we talk about the trees real quick? You mentioned you guys are having some issue up there with your oil growth and that maybe Dragonfly was involved as well?

1:41:41BubblemanYep, I think they'd be great to share.

1:41:42Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're not directly involved. We're just very active nature beings. We live in a mountain region and we are actively protecting the old growth in our area as well. But Fairy Creek. Thank you. Thank you.

1:42:12Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's an amazing, it's an amazing standoff in the woods. And yeah, we've been supporting it in every single way that we can. There's been marches all over British Columbia, even in New York, different places in the world in solidarity to Fairy Creek.

1:42:28SpeakerAnd we're trying to really follow the lead of the indigenous nations. This is their land. So we're really talking to them directly at Fairy Creek. The elders and the chiefs that own the land outright are trying to be in communication with the federal government as well as the provincial government. They're not really getting anywhere. So we are trying to help disseminate out the information in a proper way by getting it from the indigenous nations and following their lead.

1:43:00SpeakerThey are the ones who've been up there for the 175 days.

1:43:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey've been up there since August. So this is a 10 month blockade. All through the winter. And then the Canadian government released an injunction that allowed Teal Jones Group to go in and log the last old growth watershed valley on southern Vancouver Island. And as Marcus said before, there's only two Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:43:44SpeakerWe don't know all the uses. Or some kind of a fiber board or toilet paper because it's not a hard wood. So what the ultimate reality is in logging old growth forest is that they want to be able to have the land so that they can replant it Thank you so much for joining us today. We're so excited to be here. We're so excited to be here.

1:44:09SpeakerWe're so excited to be here. We're so excited to be here.

1:44:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineMaybe Incense Cedar when it's more hot, more exposed to the sun. There's Port Orchard Cedar in Oregon. Very rare, very awesome from Port Orford, Oregon. The yellow cedar has a magnificent incense flavor and a magnificent flavor. The natives used this cedar to create coast up. In some cases, there's stories of them going all through Polynesia. You know, back in the day, the Haida Gwaii natives. Currently, we're on the Sinaikst Nation.

1:45:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd the Sinaikst Nation and the Kootenays has been called extinct. But they are now winning court battles to prove that they have a place here, that they have a language, that they have... That was just lifted last month. Yeah, recently they had just become legitimized again as a native indigenous nation. We're also near the Tanaha Nation, and they helped save Jumbo Pass. Jumbo, Keep Jumbo Wild was a very important environmentalist mission.

1:45:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo there's also the Trans Canada Pipeline, and there's a tremendous amount of energy in the Native and Indigenous First Nations community to stop the pipeline. And people can look up the Tiny House Warriors and the Braided Warriors and so many other people that are on the front lines in Central and Northern British Columbia to stop the pipeline.

1:46:00SpeakerAnd we're just really getting out very, very little information to you all. We really highly recommend that everybody go directly to the Fairy Creek Blockade, which is on Instagram.

1:46:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOr the TransCanada Pipeline.

1:46:15SpeakerOr TransCanada Pipeline.

1:46:17Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd the Wet Suet and Checkout. I may have said that wrong.

1:46:20SpeakerSo that you can learn directly from these people so you can get the proper education so that we're, you know, we're not saying improper things, which is just so incredibly important. Also, there has been a terrible, I, I, I have to take a second here, actually, because just last week in Kamloops, There was 215 bodies found buried underneath the school.

1:46:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe residential school in Kamloops.

1:47:00SpeakerFor the residential school for the indigenous nations.

1:47:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe last residential school closed in 1998. Residential schools was an amazing horrific schooling operation that tried to break the native connection to earth. To break the First Nations Connected, to disassociate them completely from everything that they were about.

1:47:28SpeakerTo take the native out of the human was the goal of these residential schools. And now we have the capabilities because of modern science and thanks to modern science. To radar underneath this residential school, 215 bodies were found all the way down to three years old. So if that isn't a call to all of humanity to support all of us, Then I do not know what is.

1:48:07SpeakerIf we are not waking up and recognizing that the powers that be, that governments that politicize, that make money, that corporatize us, if we have not figured out yet that this is the demise of humanity that separates us, that causes us to find problems Stephanie Pinder- And all different people, no matter what color they are, no matter what race, they are no matter what religion, no matter what socio economic, no matter where they live, no matter how they feel or think Stephanie Pinder- It's time now for us to react.

1:48:45SpeakerStephanie Pinder- It's time now. Stephanie Pinder- For us to make a difference. All of this needs to be done.

1:48:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's also really important to look up missing and murdered indigenous women in Northern British Columbia, just to finalize the respect for the oppression that's been happening against the First Nations people there. Please look up missing and murdered indigenous women in Northern British Columbia. And if you feel called, Put it out. Look at our story every single day. Put it out. You know, contact people every single day right now.

1:49:24Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI call as many people as I can in all facets of life to bring awareness to certain situations, including cannabis, including farming, including food, food security, medicine security, living security. The time is now. It's a pandemic. We've been locked down. We're fired up. We're ready to roll. And we got gardens to support us. We got spring water to support us. We have animals, everything we need. And now we need to rise, like rise up out of the rhizosphere, out of the soil, become empowered human beings and now make change through our actions.

1:50:01SpeakerAnd we need to use our white privilege to support brown people on the planet right now. This is absolute imperative. This is what side you stand on. People are being hurt. People are being harmed all in the name of big corporate nature and big corporations. And I wanted to say sorry, not sorry for bringing such a heavy load onto Hash Church, but we're all feeling it right now.

1:50:31SpeakerOur DM is being blown up. People are losing it. Left, right, and center. We need to come back to center. We need to come back to source. We need to come back to love. We need to come back to happiness. Fear has no place in our future. Thank you so much for joining us today. We're going to get started in about a minute or so.

1:50:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're going to get started in about a minute or so.

1:51:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe don't agree with that. What we agree with keeping nature systems alive because we are nature, as we said in the chat, because we are nature, we think it's important to uphold nature cycles. So thank you, Dustin, for that work and everything else in the chain. Big love to the family. Big up. Let's make this happen. We're the change we're looking for. Without us, And other people like us and the crew.

1:51:45Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineShit's going away. We got to keep it alive.

1:51:48SpeakerAnd we just appreciate everybody out there in the chat. Like what an amazing crew of cannabis culture again, over and over again. I heard some negativity, but always positive. And people have been hitting us up in the DM and checking in with us and we're checking in with other people and we're feeling the love family. We just want to tell you that no matter what is going on in the world and no matter what kind of walls people are feeling and, you know, come in on them right now, The magic is still there.

1:52:17SpeakerIt's bigger and it's brighter than ever. And there's more and more people that are awakening to letting go of fear and taking on love.

1:52:32BubblemanThank you guys for coming in and sharing that. That was indeed heavy, but it needs to be talked about and mentioned and everything you guys said was... Super on point. And I hate to bring it even heavier, but that 215 is literally the tiniest, tiniest, tiniest tip of the iceberg that is the genocide of the Indigenous We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back.

1:53:26BubblemanI think it's partially racism, but it's, I mean, yeah, it seems to be even heavier. It depends on how deep the rabbit hole you go, okay? If you're, and I get where you're coming from, Dr. Mark, you're probably racism for sure. But if you go like deeper down the rabbit hole, I think it's like good versus evil. Like it's just like that oldest energy. And the weird thing is, and I was talking about this with my wife the other day, that life itself is, It's tension and it's tension between birth and death.

1:54:01BubblemanAnd that tension is held your whole life. And we all feel that tension. And that kind of seems to be the value that is life and that you can't ever because my wife is like, oh, there's just so much evil in the world. And I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's balanced. I think there can only be a certain amount of that and a certain amount of this.

1:54:18BubblemanAnd then there's the tension between the two. And depending on where you navigate in that tension, Shit can get heavier. Shit can get a little lighter. Oh, you're muted, but I want to hear what you're saying, Josh. You're muted.

1:54:32SpeakerAlso, if you go down the rabbit hole with racism, you find out we all came from Africa.

1:54:42BubblemanYeah, exactly.

1:54:44SpeakerIt's really that simple.

1:54:46BubblemanYeah. Well. It is really that simple, but for people who are blinded by ignorance and anger and hate, kind of like, you know, going back to that sort of good versus evil again, you know, if you're tapping into that energy, you know what's just happened there, Josh? I'm watching the YouTube video and you're talking, but it's delayed. And so I'm thinking, oh, dude, I want to hear from you, Josh.

1:55:11BubblemanWhat were you saying? Oh, shit. Stoner party of one. Stoner party of one.

1:55:18Collin PalmerStoner.

1:55:19BubblemanExactly. Hey, it's nice. It's nice to be baked. It's nice to be hanging out with all of you guys and chilling on a Sunday.

1:55:25SpeakerI think it's time to probably take a smoke and have a dab.

1:55:33Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd light some sage and clear the air, some incense in Asia, some sage in America, a cedar bough, lavenders often in the smudge sticks, you know, Best Friend Farms big enough over there, you know, some Tulsi, you know, those kind of things are important. Some cherry pie could be really nice.

1:55:54DrAnd I really support this brand. It's Echo Electuary down in Oregon. This one's one of their single source, but they do a lot of partner stuff. But he does the best job I've ever come across of getting the profile of a plant into an extract using a hydrocarbon.

1:56:09Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's incredible. Great guys. They know what they're doing. Definitely.

1:56:15DrYeah, and they support, it's three to the B, so 3% of their profits go directly back into B conservatories. They have all their own on-site apiaries where their grows are. They practice regenerative agriculture. Great people.

1:56:29BubblemanThree to the B. I like that.

1:56:36BubblemanSomeone was, oh, go ahead.

1:56:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWell, we have a thing to share and it has to do with Nick Risden. And anyone who doesn't know who Nick Risden is can look him up online on Instagram, Lime Rising Farms, Nick Risden, amazing person. He's been through Lyme's disease is his One of his battles that's led to many different things.

1:57:04SpeakerWell, it's Lyme's disease with multiple different bacterial infections from the tick bite. And he has just gone in for some accumulative therapy. um more yes some not necessarily therapy but they're they're looking at his brain they're going in for testing um to try to put him into and i really want nick to come on and he will um another time so a lot of this i'm paraphrasing he's going to have much better words he's going to tell us exactly what's going on so i'm just sort of giving a rough um overview he went in They wanted to see what kind of things they could throw at him to instill a seizure.

1:57:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHe can get up to 300 seizures a day.

1:57:54SpeakerAnd to look at those seizures on an EKG machine. And they had him hooked up everywhere on a brainwave machine as well.

1:58:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHere's what they found.

1:58:08SpeakerSo this first picture he just shared with us this morning is them trying to, he goes into grand mal seizure and they're trying to stop the seizures with every kind of drug anti-seizure that they have.

1:58:27Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThese are his brain waves.

1:58:29SpeakerEven they tried to give him some beers, which he knew wasn't FDA approved or anything. They threw everything at him, you know, all of the Adderalls, all the opiates, all the morphine, every single thing slowing down the seizure. So his brain was still going in high mode. They finally said, OK, now we don't have any more, which they had taken away all of his medicines because they wanted to throw all of their medicines at it.

1:58:58SpeakerHe was allowed to take the mycocana caps, which is what we make, which is just a blend of mushrooms and CBD full spectrum.

1:59:07Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineMushrooms from old growth forests. Again, they're mushrooms from old growth forests mixed with hemp grown regeneratively.

1:59:17SpeakerAnd a bunch of different adaptogenic herbs, compounded adaptogenic intelligent herbs. So he took 12 caps, a big dose, and then 45 minutes later, his brain is completely normalized.

1:59:32Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlmost straight-lined, complete and totaled.

1:59:38SpeakerYeah. Completely balanced.

1:59:41Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBalanced, calmed, and they were amazed. And it was amazing to just see the science behind a medicine that can't be calculated.

1:59:56SpeakerIt's beyond calculation, which is what we believe about cannabis, because even in we were listening in before we came on to the incredibly intelligent conversation that you all were having before, is that when we're dealing with these adaptogenic secondary metabolites, you know, they change. Not only do they change in the making of them, but they change in the uptake of them and the response of them as well.

2:00:21SpeakerSo it's sort of hard to calculate this stuff, but here we are being given a really awesome representation of the power of natural medicine and herbalism.

2:00:37BubblemanAnd a person who's putting both of these things together really beautifully right now in a book that I'm listening to, and it made me kind of want to reach out to him and maybe invite him on to Hash Church is, is Rupert Sheldrake's son, Merlin Sheldrake, who wrote a book called Entangled Life. And it is really worth checking out. I think it's like a $20 book or something, 18 bucks, or you can just get it on Audible and listen to it.

2:01:03BubblemanAnd it is Merlin in his voice sort of reading the book, which I find really wonderful. It just kind of is tying in a lot of what we're talking about right now. It gets into the sensory science. He's talking a lot about the mycorrhizae. He went to school at Cambridge and basically studied A whole variety of different sort of synergies between plants and learning about bacterias and viruses and how they can like transfer their DNA to one another horizontally and bacteria can take just a really super unique and awesome conversation.

2:01:39BubblemanBut a lot about the mushroom, a lot about the mycorrhizae. And yeah, if you guys haven't heard of Merlin or you haven't checked out his book, check it out.

2:01:54Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDr. James White, who studies the rhizophagy cycle and endophytic bacteria and fungi in plants. Plants have mycorrhizal fungi attached to their roots mostly. At the tip of the roots, you have the rhizophagy cycle, which is where the root transforms the nutrient and the Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:02:46Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineTo pull through things that are only beneficial to the plant It's a cycle that the body does with the microbiome. When our biome is healthy, we uptake what's healthy for us, just like the plants in the plant root zone. It's going to suck up. What he's tested is all the endophytic fungi and bacteria that enters the plants through the soil are all beneficial. None of them are pathogenic.

2:03:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe plants not suck. It could get attacked from the outside. It could get attacked because obviously plants have issues. But what its magic is and bringing in chloroplasts and plant blood is going to be a beneficial reaction. And so we want to create medicine that enhances that process because that process is what makes us human beings and from the earth. It's what gives us our ultimate protection.

2:03:42Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineEverything else is actually throwing it off. You know, the chemicals in the water, the different chemicals, the toxic, everything is throwing off our magic. Our magic is so powerful that there is medicine and foods and water and everything trying to take it down. But when you take it away and you become strong, it's unbelievable what happens.

2:04:04BubblemanIt's all in the tension. Trust me, it's all in the tension. You can't have one without the other. You just can't. It's where we come from. And it's where we go. And I'm sure it's why we get trapped in that sort of same sort of, we just have, and it's just our human nature. I think the whole part of being here is to divide and to become more like, no, I don't want to be a part of that.

2:04:29BubblemanI want to be a part of this. You know, when you come from everything and go to everything, And kind of fractioning out and being like your own sort of individual self and finding your tribe is kind of what it's all about while you're here. But I promise you, whatever your tribe is, you're going back to everything. That's just the way it is.

2:04:52SpeakerAnd it's hard to fit all of that into a body. So just that alone is just so complex.

2:05:02Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThanks for cannabis.

2:05:04SpeakerI'm thankful every day because of that. It's hard to be in a body without cannabis.

2:05:11DrHey, Dragonfly, have you played around with Koji at all?

2:05:18SpeakerAbsolutely. And I just got and working with Koji. Yeah.

2:05:23DrYeah, absolutely. Have you tried catching Koji, like catching an Aspergillus strain?

2:05:30SpeakerNo, we haven't caught anything, you know, and defined it or, you know, captured the DNA of it as Koji. We've ordered Koji and done all different kinds of grow out of it and different types of bean strains and even adding greens and adding kombu and yeah, going down the rabbit holes of seaweed and its interaction with it and the pH.

2:05:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd seaweed and beans. Really exciting. And, you know, taking away the gases.

2:05:56SpeakerWhy do you ask?

2:05:59DrI just finished Koji Alchemy and I've been talking a lot with a guy on Instagram, TM Gastronaut, super great people. And so I started playing around with like miso marinating my steaks, which is cool, but the miso, it's not active. So I ordered the aspergillus starter. My goal is to make it easier to incorporate specifically liver is what I'm after. And liver doesn't taste, beef liver is not the most, it's not the best tasting thing in my opinion.

2:06:26DrSo getting it to a usable state without just using a massive amount of like I was talking to him about it and I said, how does it do with liver pate? And he said, it's excellent because it imparts that sweet, nutty flavor. And because it's blended, it becomes like an amino paste. So you're getting, you're, you're basically making like a miso, but you know, to have a different name out of a liver paste.

2:06:48DrAnd for the rest of you guys, if you don't know about Koji, it's a mold type fungus and it's like a micro filamentous fungus and it sends its filaments down into whatever it's on. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

2:07:20DrSo I can long cure steaks or chunks of meat like that, or you can blend it up. And so when you blend it up, it's much easier for the microfilament to get down because you've got all mixed in the solution. So it can turn this beefy tasting liver paste, which sounds terrible and tastes kind of terrible, into something magical.

2:07:37Dr Mark ScialdoneDoes it tenderize the meat at all? Does it tenderize it?

2:07:40DrYeah, absolutely. So when you do it on a steak, you get some. Absolutely. And then when if you do like a reverse, this is what I did with the miso paste is marinated it for like 24 hours in a miso soy white wine mix and then did a reverse sear. So brought the steak up to like 110 and then seared it on a really hot iron skillet, like a cast iron skillet.

2:08:01DrAnd the Mallard reaction with the miso paste was excellent. So, you know, like the chart out the black and blue, it was it was primo. And, you know, to Like they mentioned earlier, these are from my holistically managed cattle that we raise just up the street on some pasture that we lease. And that system's working out great. They've never been fed anything. They drink water off the property.

2:08:21DrThey just... The better we do, the better the grass grows. And now we have multiple years of soil test data to prove that we are sequestering a significant amount of carbon through these animals. And we also own a bunch of land up on the hill and practice broad scale permaculture in various systems. The only animal that's ever died at the cow pastures, other than maybe a snake got stepped on once by a cow, are the cows themselves.

2:08:48DrEverything out there, the elk love it there, the deer love it there. We have beavers creating dams. I got snakes, I got birds, I got everything. I love all of it. Nothing there has ever died. I've never killed a single slug. On a permaculture farm, trying to grow greens is, and to be fair, we're in the forest, we're in the middle of the forest trying to grow some annual crops, and it is just slug days.

2:09:07DrWe've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do. We have a lot of work to do.

2:09:24DrSo that's a much better situation. So that's our long-term goal. But to convert, you know, a patch of forest into a food forest in the middle of

2:09:48DrThe basically food desert, an industrial force, like the whole thing's monocrop for timber production. Like they're talking, that's all of Southwest Washington, like 98% of the land down here is owned by timber companies. So we're just, I'm just, I plot myself in the middle so that when hemp destroys the timber industry, I'll be primely set up to expand my permaculture throughout all this, what will become a liability.

2:10:10DrLike what do you do with a bunch of trees when all the... You know what's really interesting? Right now I can buy hemp plywood for about half the price of like timber-based plywood. It's kind of fun.

2:10:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWow. Do you get that online or at a local building store?

2:10:26DrYeah, it's online. Let me dig it up. Someone sent it to me just the other day. I'll pull it up and see.

2:10:31Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBecause plywood's like tripled and quadrupled in price in the last six months.

2:10:35DrOut of control. Out of control.

2:10:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're working with the hemp that we brought last time we were on here and we weighed out 12 seeds and, you know, to a gram and it's those kinds of hemp that grow You know, so huge that we feel can make a difference in the timber industry. So we're, you know, we're working with NPlanta and Daryl Hudson out of the University of Saskatchewan and helping develop, you know, those food and fiber strains that will make a difference.

2:11:07Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd it can replace the pellet farms and all of the toilet paper, all those things so much. Everyone knows it.

2:11:14SpeakerAnd it can offer, and it can offer like no problems to the entire cannabis industry because he's not ever seen them flower. Like they've never flowered out before. They just keep growing and growing and growing and growing. So they create beautiful cellulose, beautiful silica and, you know, minimal flower fiber and no flower.

2:11:46DrLook at this three quarter inch thick board, 60 bucks. That's, you know how much that's like at least 75, $80 at the store right now, maybe even more. Even the half inch.

2:11:59Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat glue are they using, Nina?

2:12:05Dr Mark ScialdoneIsosinate.

2:12:07SpeakerPure Gorilla Glue.

2:12:10BubblemanYeah, I'm not sure. So, you know, I think they're using six star bubble hash, actually, as they do. It's like a six to one ratio.

2:12:20Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI would have never been, you know, a thing that that was biodegradable. So, you know, I wouldn't necessarily expect that of hemp board, but it's still like, wow.

2:12:33BubblemanIt can't possibly be as toxic and as much of a bummer as the other stuff.

2:12:39Dr Mark ScialdoneCan these things be so boarding and decking is one thing. And if it could be used as cladding, it's different, but can it actually be used as the undercarriage lumber underneath a deck? I mean, yeah, okay, decking, yes, but I don't think it could actually be used for like in place of like two by tens and two by eights.

2:13:06SpeakerIt's not treated, Mark.

2:13:07DrRight.

2:13:07Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's not treated. So it's not.

2:13:09DrOK, so what I just showed you is plywood. And yes, it's structural. You could use it as sheeting on a building. And that's what, you know, plywood. Or you could use it as subfloor above those joists that you're talking about. If I was going to. Yes, you could 100 percent make structural pieces out of it. It would be in an I-beam configuration. So I'm building a house right now.

2:13:26DrAnd the traditional lumber, the long stretches are plywood going this way, plywood going this way in an I-beam shape. And it's it's just as strong and significantly lighter than the alternative We're going to be talking about the future of building and we're going to use hemp. It's going to be composite pieces like this. And you get a lot of structure just by changing it. And the real beauty where this stuff isn't quite at yet, but will be.

2:13:54DrAnd when they said they've got huge hemp plants, what we really want is 20 foot tall field grown like corn, basically, because those long fibers are where the strength's at. Because if I take a bunch of very long fibers, press and glue them together, I get exponentially more strength than a bunch of particle board pieces.

2:14:12Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, they can start even putting shorter fiber into oriented strand boards. So oriented strand board is all the wood chips off the bottom of the sawmill. And what they do is they, yeah, press those together into a laminate. And glue it. And so the glue turns out to be the magic. I mean, yeah, there's lots of cheap sources of cellulose and how to orient those fibers to get the real strength, the modular strength of the fibers themselves is definitely a trick.

2:14:43Dr Mark ScialdoneBut I think this could certainly be used. The question I have, I mean, even for outdoor cladding, though, Dustin, it would have to be, Again, the biggest thing outdoors is ultraviolet light. So ultraviolet light will degrade lignin. So if you just put a piece of untreated wood out in the weather, after about a year, it turns gray. After about two or three years, it'll fall apart because all you have is cellulose.

2:15:11Dr Mark ScialdoneYou've completely degraded all of the lignin. So the real question is, is how stable is the matrix that holds all that together? And that'll be where some innovation needs to happen.

2:15:23DrSure. And the same issue with plywood. And then if that's going to be an issue, if I've got wood that's going to be outside, then I treat it right with some usually pretty toxic chemicals.

2:15:31Dr Mark ScialdoneNasty chemicals. Yeah.

2:15:33DrRight. Yeah. But in nature, I just do a better job of material selection. Like my cedar that's going to be exposed outside is fine because it can go 100 years underground.

2:15:41Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's naturally resistant to degradation. That's right.

2:15:45DrAnd then if I need to go even further, I'll char the end of it before I stick it into the ground. And now it's going to last at least two lifetimes. Like, we're good.

2:15:53Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo a product called Lifetime. Sorry, Justin, if you wanted to finish up something. As far as the siding or cladding, as Mark said, you can use a product called Lifetime. It's made up here in the Kootenays, but they send it all over the world. The guys from the European family and a European like coveted recipe or something, but it's powder. And you put it in five gallons of water and really it smells like rust water.

2:16:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's like, I forget dioxide, what the main component is in it, but they don't tell you what's in it. But what you do is you put it in a, Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:16:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe did the show, what is it? Shoji, Shoji Ban, the, you know.

2:17:04DrYeah, charring, yeah.

2:17:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe charring, so we did that for board and batons. We did like one by eight and then did a baton that was charred. So it's kind of this interesting look of like black and dark, yeah. But it's natural in that part.

2:17:19SpeakerYeah, also there's great milk-based paints out there, just to put it out there.

2:17:24DrDo you guys have a mill, a sawmill?

2:17:27Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe have three neighbors that have sawmills, so we don't have one at the moment, but I like the idea of getting an Alaskan chain mill only for the rawness part of it. I don't see it as a great building material tool, but it's also like we make mountain biking jumps and greenhouses and all kinds of sort of landscaping style building, and that works really good for us.

2:17:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut we have really amazing mills near us. So we do salvage wood out of clear cuts and on the sides of roads and definitely out of our lake for sure. Milled up. Yeah, the lake is a big source for us for we fold trees and things.

2:18:06DrI imagine you have like, do you use wood burning heat in the winter on site? Yeah, so you have some managed timber production, and in that sense, you're probably coppicing, pollarding, whatever your source is, right?

2:18:19Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe go wild on that, and we just gather it because we live literally on the side of the largest wilderness area in southern British Columbia, so raw materials are not a thing for us. It's not out there. Just get it from your zone four on the outside. You just, you can get it really easily.

2:18:35SpeakerJust get dead, dead. Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:18:54Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSetups, any rocket mass stove or heater or anything? Not right now, but I have two greenhouses, my Wally Peeny and the round one, which we call the mothership is something I really want to build a rocket mass, more of an earth fired stove, which will have water going through the beds. And then I also put a 300 gallon septic tank in the center of the greenhouse in the ground.

2:19:19Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo once the water starts flowing through, it can go into a holding tank in the center of the greenhouse. And there's also air tubes, four, four inch air tubes going a thousand feet in the ground, six feet under, and then coming up in the center. So I like the idea of doing somewhat passive, somewhat passive geothermal.

2:19:41DrYeah, big thermal battery, pretty much.

2:19:48DrThe air tubes, are you catching all the hot air from the peak of it and then sucking it down into the ground?

2:19:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe peak of it, I have just sandwiched two layers of plastic in between a full two by four, full two dimensions. And I'm going to put four air tubes going down like north, south, east, and west and gather the hot air from the top and then put it into the roof at the bottom because the snow accumulates near the base. So once I get any heat from any of the sun, I'll be able to gather it at the hot end and then sort of force it through like forest air to make a little bit more of the bubble.

2:20:31SpeakerSweet.

2:20:35Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd we're on homestead time and we don't hire out work. So everything is magical and has its divine timing. And this lockdown has been very good for us working on our farm.

2:20:47SpeakerAnd we always laugh about how really and truly like Thank you so much for joining us.

2:21:21Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhat's best friend? What have you been planting on your farm in the last week or what? Can you tell us what you've done in the last, say the last? Oh, and Dustin, do you use ducks for your slugs? Because ducks and cows get along really good. And ducks are really easy on the garden. They can go all over.

2:21:38SpeakerAnd if you let the cows raise the baby ducks, then they'll protect them from any predators in wherever you're grazing. No.

2:21:49DrWe've had lots of ducks. We have no ducks now. I only ate maybe one of them and the rest got where we feed the wildlife. It's very difficult where we are. Like I said, I'm like Mecca in the middle of the desert. Like there's nothing to eat anywhere until you show up at my spot and then there's everything to eat. Doesn't matter who we are. Big, small, eat plants, eat animals.

2:22:08DrHere you go. Got a dog, doesn't do shit. We keep our we lease a bunch of land down in like the flats of a slew about 10 minutes from here. And that's where we raise our cattle. So they're not yet integrated up. And I don't think I'm going to integrate cattle up into the hill farm. It's just I just don't have enough. I might bring some of my small Dexter, but I think we'll probably do sheep like the like the haired shedding sheep.

2:22:33DrAnd then we're in the process of fencing it, you know, without fencing to try and get established with these trees. Because when you're at, when you've got multiple thousand trees in the ground, it's a lot cheaper just to fence the whole thing than to try to fence each one. So that's where we're at with that right now. We will move back into fully integrated. And we've ran a lot of chickens with the cows just to control flies was great.

2:22:58DrBut I've seen eagles eat my chickens. I've seen little like marmots eat my chickens. I've seen cats eat my chickens. It's endless. Same with the ducks. Everybody loves those chickens. They're sitting ducks, man. But yes, they did great for the slugs. It was an awesome solution. We'll get back to it when we figure out how to keep them alive.

2:23:18BubblemanI just want to say that Tony Negg gave a beautiful, he calls it CBHD. So that's the new term. It's CBHD. And then what else? I wanted to say one other thing that, oh, Aru Giff said, please say hello to me. It would make my day. Well, if that's not the easiest way to make someone's day, let's all say hi to Aru Giff in the chat room.

2:23:44SpeakerHey, Aru.

2:23:46Johnny BHey, Aru.

2:23:46BubblemanSmoke them if you got them. Smoke them if you want them. Got them. Exactly. Sorry to interrupt there, guys.

2:23:54Etienne FontanLet's hear from a farmer.

2:23:58BubblemanYeah, exactly. That's right.

2:23:59Etienne FontanHey, Dustin.

2:24:03Bryan Best Friend FarmsDustin, have you considered using raised beds with rocks like right dead center in your cutout for those greens with like a rock fringe, even crushed rock around the rock raised bed for like just a really central rock raised bed, which would pick it up off off the ground for those slugs and then like any rock sand border, probably Shardy kind of rock situation might help a lot.

2:24:31Bryan Best Friend FarmsThey lay off my beds that are right in the middle of the yard for sure and hot and dry. But even nearby other beds that aren't, you know, they're centered more into the middle of the site.

2:24:45DrYeah, absolutely. So and once this property that I bought is it's just steep downhill. So every everything that's flat, we put there right with with terraces. We've got the whole thing integrated into, you know, terrace, swale, pond system. And so, yes, some of the beds that are up close to like some of my access roads, which are a lot of them are just rough rock roads. They and they're all raised beds.

2:25:08DrWe just use cedar that we then for the boundaries of these beds and they're all raised up. The problem is that I'm I'm on the I'm like I said, Mecca in the desert and that desert is on the edge of the rainforest. It's like one hundred and ten inches of rain a year. So it is. The amount of slugs is next level. We've gotten pretty good at it.

2:25:30DrThe little yeast traps are just destroy them. And if we can get back into ducks, but yes, the ones, another problem is that rocks are extremely expensive here because it's all clay. I've dug 40 foot down into the ground building ponds and I've never once found a natural rock on the property anywhere. It's all clay. And it's been this level of four. So I got to bring them in and that's expensive, but yes.

2:25:55DrWherever it's a bad place for slugs to be is usually a good place to grow your greens. That's a good tactic.

2:26:02Bryan Best Friend FarmsSand might work, actually. Some more sand, like a sand fringe around something, which is cheaper than the rocks and local sand. I don't know if you have much of that. We have a lot of sand in Maine, and I'm on granite bedrock mostly. I really, really enjoy my old pasture site, which is the one spot on my land. Big thanks to cows. It's like 200 year old pasture land and everything on that grows just amazing all on its own.

2:26:31Bryan Best Friend FarmsReally keeps regenerative and you can tell the difference with it. So big thanks to cows and cow poop. Just wanted to throw that out there. I love the fungal colony. I don't know how you say richness to it that I get even for the quality on the turps and taste into my Thank you so much for joining us.

2:27:19Dr Mark ScialdoneUh, infection. Like, do you, do you ever see?

2:27:26Bryan Best Friend FarmsSuper healthy field in terms of just what I see anyway, visually. And I have been running some tests this year into soil, obviously tests on the medicine and the plant matter itself. Um, I haven't seen any flags pop up or, or dug deep into having further testing into the biomass though, the leftovers or other stuff goes right to the compost. Any, you know, With that pretty quickly and yeah, super healthy, Mark, on the cow group and naturally.

2:27:55Dr Mark ScialdoneThe reason why I ask is in particular, all the Amish around here use a lot of manure in their hemp farming, yet their COAs, they're getting hit for just total, it's not E. coli, it's just, I don't know, I think it's just total bacteria or something like this.

2:28:15SpeakerIt's a total E. coli.

2:28:18Dr Mark ScialdoneExactly what Mike said. Totally aerobic. And what they come back to me is they say, well, you know, what does this mean? And so my interpretation of that, and Mike, tell me if I'm correct on this, is that they're doing a... Yeah, but I don't think they're streaking plates. So I believe what they're doing is they do some sort of genetic analysis of And that determines that there was DNA of this bacteria on this biomass at one time, but now the biomass is ground and dried and it's totally fine and totally okay to process.

2:29:00Dr Mark ScialdoneBut these guys are all like, well, wait a second. It's got all this microbial and the numbers are like in the hundreds of thousands of colony forming units. So they don't exactly know how to interpret that data. So.

2:29:16Bryan Best Friend FarmsI would say, I don't know, you know more, but my field is pretty dry. And when you kind of mentioned maybe like the, The dry out for it for the bacteria die off perhaps. And if you're going to keep it, I know that like wet and moist, you're going to harbor environment, at least set it up for your fungal and your bacteria to thrive. So my field's pretty dusty dry.

2:29:38Bryan Best Friend FarmsPart of why I did that is it's on top of bedrock. So, you know, it's whatever loam I could scrape up after clear cut and mix, you know, kind of 50-50 with the cow poop. But my cow poop was aged. When I went in on that stuff, it was at least one year, even two. Some of it was two plus years old, coming into three now for, you know, at least.

2:30:00Bryan Best Friend FarmsSo also broke down aged, sawdust in on it, a lot of straw, local straw and sawdust in.

2:30:07Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's not cow poop anymore.

2:30:10SpeakerWell, you got to realize that it's the same. Bacteria that's in compost is also going to be ubiquitous within your fields. It's going to be being blown around on the air currents and moved around by the wind and the rain. So ultimately the same lactobacillus that's coming out of the helping the milk turn into cheese is also going to be ubiquitously bound on your plant material in the field as well as during the drying process.

2:30:40SpeakerDuring the drying process should inhibit the mold as long as it's done in a ideally a cool and dry environment. But generally speaking, what's going to happen is those microbes are going to form spores. Those spores are then capable of being grown when they're in a suitable environment. So oftentimes people aren't drying the plants fast enough or you're getting that microbial degradation that we were talking about.

2:31:09SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

2:31:36SpeakerHBLC.

2:31:36Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, Mike, it's just hydroxylation. There's no is in there. So hydroxylation.

2:31:42SpeakerThank you, Mark. Yeah. I think that, you know, as long as it's in that biomass form, you're probably going to have that mold, then that chance of microbial growth and degradation. So the sooner that people can either turn it into hash or turn it into extracts, the less degradation of the cannabinoids and terpenes that you're going to have. So, but yeah, it's, you know, ultimately it's something that the Washington state had the zero tolerance on all aerobic bacteria the first two years, which was tough for a lot of the organic farmers because they wouldn't pass and they would then have to grow cannabis organically and then process it through some sort of extraction that filters out any of that microbial content.

2:32:33Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah, there's no microbial content. They're just measuring DNA of microbes that lived on the plant material during the harvest. And that, you know, isn't, you know, if you're doing some kind of, it depends on extraction, there's, there's no, no, yeah.

2:32:51SpeakerMost, most of the labs though, in state labs, we'll just do the plating. There's, I'd say the minority of the labs are actually doing the DNA sequencing. DNA sequencing is probably more suitable because then you can actually identify, you know, rather than identify whether it's a good or bad, you want to be able to identify it's a harmful bacteria or a bacteria that uses those mycotoxins. Exactly.

2:33:18SpeakerIt's total aerobic, you know, it's going to negatively affect a lot of the terroir because you're not near those microbes that create those terpene precursors in the root systems. Um, are gonna be essentially have to be scrubbed out of the industry. Otherwise they'll, you know, naturally show up in these total aerobic plates. Now, you know, Washington took in the first two years to legalization, took a conservative approach, put that zero tolerance.

2:33:45SpeakerI believe Oregon didn't require microbial testing the first year or two and then did, but they set it, set it kind of a lower bar and a really, really tight bar on pesticides. So what ended up happening with Washington is they didn't require a lot of testing and then slowly started requiring more and more testing.

2:34:08Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it's required everywhere. I mean, ATN, I know it's required in California, right? It's required everywhere now.

2:34:15DrColorado is like just came on board or is about to. Maybe it hasn't even on pesticide testing.

2:34:20Dr Mark ScialdoneI can't think of a regulated market that doesn't require it.

2:34:23SpeakerColorado or just happened. Yeah. And Washington didn't require it. It's just they say that they will test random samples. And if you fail, you'll get a recall or something like that.

2:34:36Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Well, California is interesting because California has a remediation pathway. So if stuff fails, it can be remediated and still be in the metric system, the tag system or whatever. So that's kind of a little weird. But anyway.

2:34:56SpeakerWell, here's the thing with that, and I hate to say that. It's a good way to save the farmer's crop, right? Because what I've seen happen in some parts of the country that are close to orchards or close to vineyards, you're getting crop drip and you're failing for crop pesticides that you didn't yourself spray for it. Other cases, it may be accumulated from the soil.

2:35:19Dr Mark ScialdoneFuture 4,200 readership, right? All those folks who were able to save all that Jason Eckert, Jr.: This thought it by doing a floor so chromatography or whatever it was that they did to get rid of the Eagle 20 right. Jason Eckert, Jr.: And scrub.

2:35:34DrJason Eckert, Jr.: Well, I'm sorry, what is it. Jason Eckert, Jr.: yeah I say a scrub it was saying right silica it's just the same. Jason Eckert, Jr.: So it was.

2:35:42Dr Mark ScialdoneJason Eckert, Jr.: A Sanskrit. Jason Eckert, Jr.: hey you could sell out that's like a catchy. Jason Eckert, Jr.: tagline right for a. A business, right? Go to Carbon Chemistries, right, Dustin? Go to Carbon, right? They want to sell stuff to the industry, so.

2:35:59SpeakerI'm sure there's going to be patents that could develop out of it, but ultimately, I do think that part of what's called media bid filtration is used. Right. I used it prior to getting into the cannabis industry when I was working in the bio industry.

2:36:14Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, y'all know in our industry, Murphy Murray, right? You know Murphy? Who does her, her CRC classes in mass. And, um, you know, I first met her on the Adam Dunn show. I always thought that it was something, you know, kind of interesting going on there, but I, you know, it's very interesting to use that as a sort of like a widespread technique, no matter whether your stuff's contaminated or not to just get a more pure fraction.

2:36:48Dr Mark ScialdoneBut I always thought that. For the most part, you want to get as full spectrum of an extract as you possibly can. So fractionating it into these very nice looking product

2:37:02Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, has its place, but not.

2:37:05DrYeah. I've been in her personal lab and she has taken that full circle background to the highest level. So not only does she have like a six foot chroma column that she uses a separation column that again, she fills with dirt, right? Sand and dirt, basically, like you said. And then she also has a very nice hydrocarbon falling film, which allows her to selectively change the temperature off which, you know, which fraction she takes.

2:37:31DrWhich she's recovering, yeah. She then takes all of the choice fractions and blends them back together, right? And it allows her to separate out parts that you wouldn't want to probably smoke. Definitely not at scale. So it's very interesting what she's done. She's been isolating lately esters. She's got one, a jar full of it, and it's crystallizing on its own and it smells like bananas. It's the craziest thing.

2:37:56DrThat was the first thing she showed me when I was in there. She also has lots of blue crystals growing, blue terpene crystals growing.

2:38:01Dr Mark ScialdoneI say amyl acetate. Isn't that the banana, the banana ester?

2:38:06DrI'm not sure what it is.

2:38:08Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm looking online. I'm just remembering off the top of my head. I say amyl acetate. Somebody check me on that.

2:38:13DrGetting these things tested is a bit tricky and or very expensive, right? Like your normal cannabis lab is not going to be able to tell you what your ester is. They might be able to get you on the right path.

2:38:24Dr Mark ScialdoneBack to Marcus's terminology that all these things are kind of like all like sometimes you have to remediate shit. Because you got pesticides in it and you can't make a sellable product until you remediate. Other times you're looking to not remediate, but you're looking to what you were saying, Dustin, fractionate. And whether you fractionate by, again, that sounds badass to have a falling foam evaporator where you could separate different fractions.

2:38:52Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's so cool. I mean, she's in a very good position. I know the guys that she works with. To enable her to be able to do that kind of All of that work and R&D.

2:39:04DrAnd look, when we make water hash, we're fractionating in a sense as well. We're excluding things by particulate size and we want some things to go through the bag and some things to stay on the other side of the bag, right? We're just taking that further down the line. So it's like, where do you draw the line? And then when we smoke based on the temperature, that's how much of whatever is in there is getting into our lungs, right?

2:39:23DrWe're kind of fractionating it right there too, based on the vapor pressure or the vaporization point of it. A lot of our interaction other than just like straight up eating the flour is some form of us selectively getting down the line past the flour to the active ingredients that we want.

2:39:40Dr Mark ScialdoneA little bit of isomerization, but a lot of decarboxylation and that's it. No ring-closing acid chemistry bullshit.

2:39:50Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI recommend eating a piece of the bud that you're smoking. Because it does release a whole, like the magic terpene in your mouth. And then, you know, by smoking it, you get a sensation.

2:40:09DrI would definitely be down to like soak a bunch of buds in butter and then bake them for a little while and then eat that. That sounds delicious.

2:40:16Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlso, just putting a bud in, a fresh bud into hot water, like a tea. I mean, you know, everyone's heard about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, do it. It's insane. Like the terpenes in the water are just like, wow.

2:40:29BubblemanEveryone's heard of it here in Canada, especially because that was one of Kirk Tussaud's main arguments when he explained to the judge, as it sits right now, this cannabis is legal. And then if like your grandmother like took it and put it in a tea bag and put it into hot water, now she could face 14 years in prison. And the judge was kind of like, that was it for him.

2:40:52BubblemanHe was just like, yeah, we have to allow extracts. Like there's, there's just no, there's not going to be any way around it. And just like that, just in BC at first, across Canada, we went from having, you know, no ability to do extracts to kind of overnight, suddenly, you know, extracts were allowed. And then, and then they also redefined the word marijuana, which was like marijuana meant just the plant.

2:41:16BubblemanYou know, the flowers or whatnot. Then the judge was like, no marijuana. This is how we got extracts to be allowed. He said marijuana is every component of the plant. So if you have a license and you can have like a pound, then you're allowed to have a pound of any part of the plant. And so that was the game changer here in Canada. So. Now shut up.

2:41:36Etienne FontanYou know, we had always heard about, you know, being put in your tea, mom's tea, et cetera, et cetera. And so we always used to kind of laugh at the idea because there was never the thought of I'm going to take a fresh bud and put it in this tea and, you know, let its terpenes dissolve. We didn't even know what terpenes were in the sense of what we're actually ingesting.

2:41:55Etienne FontanAnd then to think of then just putting a flower in boiling water just seemed antithesis of anything that we're trying to do to quote unquote get us high. But of course, leave it to older generations to know there was something there and that science has caught up to its understanding about the terpenes and all that that actually does come out in the water. So you won't necessarily get that.

2:42:20SpeakerTerpenes are certainly soluble, but cannabinoids and their acid forms are not particularly water soluble at all, even in hot water.

2:42:31BubblemanCorrect. Yet Jamaican grandmothers, you know, have been doing this from like for a very long time, like even while they're kind of like harshing on the grandkids for smoking spliffs in the back room when their backs are sore or previously to that to have like All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:43:16DrWell, I mean, if I'm getting the terps out of the trikes because the water's so hot, you know, in theory, I'm probably dissolving a lot of the trikes. The cannabinoids may not be soluble in the water, but if I drink all of that water, I'm going to get all those cannabinoids inside of me. Like, what do they float on the tops? You know, they're just floating around there instead of mixed into the thing.

2:43:34DrIf I drink it all and get that top layer down my gut, I'm getting those cannabinoids inside of me for sure.

2:43:41SpeakerI'm not so sure about that. Have you actually tested that?

2:43:46DrIt could definitely stick to the rim of the cup, right? But if it was on the top, if I boiled it and used a straw and sucked it up or just put my lips down on the top of the cup, right, and sucked it out of the top, I'm going to get them on my list.

2:43:59Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat's the compelling nature? I mean, so if you're just putting cannabis into a tea bag and you drop the tea bag in the hot water, like Sam said, the cannabinoids aren't going to be soluble. Well, you know, very slightly.

2:44:15BubblemanIt depends on how long you leave it in the hot water for. It depends on how tenacious you are, I guess. Is it boiling water?

2:44:23SpeakerYeah, if you're above or below the melting point of the cannabinoids, they should. The terpenes are going to help co-solvate the trichromes, but it's going to form a biofilm on the surface.

2:44:34Etienne FontanRight. Who's going to drink boiling hot water?

2:44:38DrWell, you let it cool down. The cannabinoids are still going to be there, right? The cannabinoids aren't going back to the flower when it cools down.

2:44:44Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, they're just going to leave a sticky film all over the place, right?

2:44:49DrThe point is they're not going to be on the bud anymore, is my argument.

2:44:52Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

2:44:53SpeakerYou know, utilizing an animal milk like is used in bang that that's a homage.

2:44:59Dr Mark ScialdoneNow that's different. It's got milk.

2:45:01SpeakerNow you're winning. Yeah. Guys, I've been prescribing tea to my patients for a really long time.

2:45:11Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineJust pregnant.

2:45:12SpeakerJust just putting flowers in tea and you can ask all them. It definitely works. And also... No, we're not saying it doesn't work. I've heard it from many, many people, but it works. What I'm saying is... What percentage of the active ingredient is being delivered to the patient and what percent is left in the plant? That was my only question. Good question.

2:45:41Etienne FontanWe have enough scientists here that can actually just boil some cannabis and figure out what's left. I mean, come on, enough of y'all know how to work.

2:45:51Dr Mark ScialdoneYou need something to emulsify the fats into the water layer. We've talked about this many times. This is not anything that's easily Soil Grown, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm, Storm,

2:46:30BubblemanAnd that's why I was getting paid so much for those peanut butter cups in the Who's Gow there.

2:46:35DrYou know, but if I can make hash from ice water, then I should be able to make hash from hot water where I just agitated the shit out of it and use it to, you know, if I pressure wash with hot water, a bud, a plant.

2:46:48SpeakerAnd I'm curious, how much research have you done on this? For example, I actually took water hash and Put it in a tall, tall, large glass container and poured boiling hot water in it to see what would happen. So, I mean, I've been playing around doing this RDD on campus a long, long time. And I'm still curious what I did ask about.

2:47:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYou had lots of starting material to experiment with.

2:47:26SpeakerThat's for sure. And it was legal to do the work.

2:47:30DrAnd Diverse. Once that beaker cooled down, you could drink it and that hash is getting inside of you, whether it's soluble in the water or not, right? Unless it's still in the beaker somewhere.

2:47:40SpeakerNo, it's not very soluble in the water, but in this particular case, what did happen was the hot water would cause the massive bubble hash to sink down to the bottom of the container. Where it would get hot, hotter, and it would bubble back up like a lava lamp. It would spread on the top, cool off, and sink back down again. So what it did is gave me a few hours of mindless fun.

2:48:18Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, it's kind of more passive medicine and a little bit more homeopathic. You know, I mean, a person that's making ganja tea is probably a farmer. You know, I wouldn't say that someone's going to go to the store in Canada and buy legal Canadian cannabis weed and go home Thank you so much for joining us.

2:48:53Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you so much for joining us.

2:49:16Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou should go in you along with all the worm castings and all the herbs should be in your body.

2:49:22DrYeah, water extraction from a plant is not the same as water extraction from an extract because the plant has much more lipids present. And if I'm heating those lipids off the plant surface up and then there's cannabinoids floating around, I've got a little bit of a lipid emulsion going on. You know, that's what winterization is when we're processing. It's all these extra lipids that we extracted that we're trying to get rid of.

2:49:45DrThose lipids are very cannabis soluble. A lot of people lose a lot of their cannabinoids to that fat cake that they've got because they didn't wash them back out. So you can and you can load those lipids up. So and that's all coming from the plant. So hot water plant extraction has some tiny percentage of cannabinoids that are becoming soluble just from what's going on with the plant.

2:50:07SpeakerNo, I agree with this because when I've interviewed people in traditional cannabis producing countries where men and especially women would make tea as you're talking about and they would say, you know, that it gave them this benefit or that benefit or This benefit. And I was just wondering if anybody actually knew how much of the THC and other cannabinoids or terpenes, I imagine most of the terpenes are gone, still remain in the plant material.

2:50:45SpeakerThat's all.

2:50:46Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. So like conventional tea or Camille Sinestis or whatever it is, Those are all water soluble polyphenols that are actually the polyphenol portion is the a-glycone of a much larger molecule that looks kind of like the anthocyanins. So these are very large water soluble molecules that come out in the tea. I mean, and so that's, you know, cannabinoids aren't a-glycones. They're not, they're fat soluble, yeah, stuck in the trichome, you know.

2:51:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're not going to easily solubilize it in hot water. I always found it interesting, though, and Sam, I don't know if you've ever looked at this before. It appears as though there's a good process that uses hot water to do extraction and almost kind of like, I won't say it's like ice water hashing, but it's hashing in a way using hot water or super Pressurized Steam, or Dustin, I don't know if you know about this at all.

2:51:52SpeakerNo, I'm not familiar with it. And if you find a reference or...

2:52:00Dr Mark ScialdoneI think Dustin's about to tell us about it. But they make a pretty high percentage CBDA product from hemp now. And I've seen this coming out of Oregon. Dustin, do you know anything about that?

2:52:15SpeakerWell, science is a wonderful thing.

2:52:19Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Well, this is Ash Church. Holy shit. Let's talk about Ash.

2:52:24DrPut that, put that lava lamp image back in your mind. And then imagine that I can wash, you know, through that lava lamp, I can send a different solvent down that will allow me to grab the hash and leave the water behind. Like typically in like your cooking oil industry, that's going to be hexane. But guys are getting crazy with it. They're like percolating propane through it.

2:52:45DrSo that ain't on the beauty there is that the propane can then be separated from your hash at a very low temperature. So if I'm trying to save all my All right, so we're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. So we're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. So we're going to talk about what we're going to talk about today.

2:53:20Dr Mark ScialdoneSteve Sorenson, CEO Alphabet and Google.com

2:53:36DrLook, there's a.

2:53:37Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd that makes a very clean product. I was amazed how clean the product is. I didn't know the level of detail about the process that you just described. So thank you.

2:53:46DrAnd there is a few more that are floating around. One of them is like an acidic wash, which is warm acid. And you're just it's very low. It's not very abrasive, right? And then we can do an acid-base crash out from there because we're targeting those acidic cannabinoids. That one's got a lot more steps involved. And then the other one is an enzymatic type extraction where it's warm with enzymes and enzymes are breaking down the trichrome surfaces.

2:54:16DrAnd then that's allowing the cannabinoids and the terps and everything in there to come out. And like we said, they pop to the top and then become a lava lamp pump. And then, you know, if you want to stay truly solventless, there's ways to get the water off without any solvents, but you're leaving a purity step behind when you do that. That may be beneficial or not.

2:54:35Dr Mark ScialdoneNow, we got to ask, and the rest of the church wants to know from Sam, did you patent the hash lava lamp? I mean, come on. That's like a fucking statement. If you have enough hash, To fill a lava lamp, you got lots of hash, right?

2:54:55SpeakerWell, I couldn't patent it, but to be honest, I was thinking, well, how am I ever going to sell these when cannabis wasn't even legal when I... But yeah, I'm sorry I didn't do it now. It would have made my retirement much more plush.

2:55:16BubblemanDude, I'll guarantee you, I guarantee you this, that most people's hash it wouldn't work with. Yours worked because of the utter and complete ridiculous quality and purity that you can get it to. But like, I just doubt that every resin would do the same thing.

2:55:32Etienne FontanYeah, he just would have the no green line at the top.

2:55:36Dr Mark ScialdoneWe could use this episode alone just to blow it up. Someone needs to invent the hash lava lamp, man. Come on, Sam. There you go.

2:55:45Etienne FontanCome on, Sam.

2:55:46SpeakerIf you have a really good, clean water hash, you can easily do it also.

2:55:56BubblemanWell, I think it has to be really clean and really good because I've cleaned some not so good stuff.

2:56:02SpeakerThen it will work. I mean, come on, there must be some people with, you know, an extra ounce of water hash pollen, you know, dried weed I'm talking about.

2:56:16Dr Mark ScialdoneCome on, Dustin, some of your tribe has got to be up there.

2:56:19SpeakerA couple gallons of boiling water on it, Justin.

2:56:25BubblemanOh my God. A couple of good laughs today on Hash Church. I'm not going to lie. I'm going to call a hard stop at 12 p.m. So we have like three minutes to wrap it up. We can continue next weekend for sure. But anyone that wants to say more now, this is your chance. And I'll thank you now, Dustin, for coming out. We'll have you back again as well if you want to come share some more.

2:56:46BubblemanAnd thank everyone for being on the panel. So let's finish it off here with our last couple of minutes. Say whatever you need to say, guys.

2:56:55Etienne FontanGreat having you here, Dustin. Again, you know, some of your tribe, I joined your future 4200 there. It's a fascinating site. Good shit. But there's got to be some people out there that in your network there that at least should have been piqued by this discussion. And hopefully we'll start to see some prototypes in the coming weeks. Come on, people, you can do this.

2:57:21Etienne FontanAll the techniques are on Hash Church, right? We've talked about it enough.

2:57:26BubblemanHey, I'm a member of Future 4200.

2:57:29DrI just noticed that. Appreciate you, man. There's a lot of good information out there.

2:57:36Dr Mark ScialdoneIf you wade through the threads, man, and there's just discussions where you can get lost for hours, I've done that. So thank you, Dustin. Thanks for coming out today, buddy.

2:57:48BubblemanThere's one about us talking on hash church right now that I just found from Pharmax, Oregon.

2:57:54Dr Mark ScialdoneI was like the fourth post I found.

2:57:56BubblemanIt's meta as fuck. It's like a picture of Dustin. That's pretty awesome.

2:58:02SpeakerI felt like this has been before.

2:58:09SpeakerThis has happened many times.

2:58:11Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, there's nothing wrong. I would think that there's lots of familiar people in both circles, so. Right, Dustin? I mean.

2:58:21DrYeah, absolutely. I think I knew at least three of you guys before this. I hung out with the Dragonfly guy in Hawaii last year. Mike, I've met, I think maybe at Lyft, hanging out with Tim. I don't, we've met somewhere before. He knew Horatio pretty well, didn't he? He was on there. Yeah, I know he happened here. Yeah, Horatio, I did know Horatio pretty well.

2:58:43Johnny BBecause he mentioned, he talked to you, he talked about you quite a bit. Yeah. I got on there, I've been on your forum and I've read a lot of stuff, but yeah. It was great to see everybody here today and always thank you for having me and I hope everybody has a fantastic Sunday and just keep that positivity going, growing. And I want to challenge you guys all to a solo cup, girl.

2:59:03Johnny BSo I want everybody to grow a plant in a solo cup. All around the world. So if you have a chance, you know, grab a Solo Cup and just grow on a Solo Cup. Keep it in your window, whatever. Just grow a Solo Cup and maybe even pass that on to somebody else to keep them growing their journey. So as always, guys, peace and love. And thanks for having me, Mark, and everybody else on the panel.

2:59:22Johnny BAwesome. Keep growing.

2:59:25BubblemanI feel bad I took my plant out of the Solo Cup, but it's doing so much better in a bigger pot. Thanks for the animal cookies, Johnny B.

2:59:34Etienne FontanWell, if you want to maintain it as a bonsai, just remember, you just take it out, remove the bottom third, and then put in new soil, and then you can put it back so it keeps the roots growing. Otherwise, you'll get root lock. Bonsai tricks.

2:59:50BubblemanI think I must be a new member or something because my shit needs approval on Future 4200. If only I knew the guy that owned the website or something, I could maybe get a little boost on my... No, no, I'm just...

3:00:05BubblemanLittle Juice. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, for coming and hanging out. And I hope you guys all have a really nice Sunday today. Let's try and do it again next week. I'll send out the emails if you guys want to come back. We'll talk some more. And otherwise, may that full melt bless your bowl sooner than later. Peace out, everybody.

3:00:26Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you, Marcus.

3:00:28SpeakerThanks, everyone.

3:00:35BubblemanThe recording has stopped.